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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
DECEMBER 6, 2007
9:00 A.M. SESSION

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>>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called to order.
The chair will yield to Ms. Linda Saul-Sena.
09:03:04:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, madam Chairman.
09:03:06:06 It's my pleasure this morning to welcome Reverend
09:03:09:16 Pastor Earl Smith.
09:03:10:27 He is the pastor of St. John's Presbyterian Church,
09:03:16:12 where he's been for seven years, and he also heads up
09:03:19:07 the Judeo Christian Clinic and the early learning
09:03:22:27 centers.
09:03:23:07 It is a great pleasure to welcome him this morning.
09:03:25:18 I'd like to ask everyone to rise for his invocation and
09:03:28:25 stay up for the Pledge of Allegiance.
09:03:36:10 >> Thank you for inviting me, Linda.
09:03:38:10 This is a wonderful time of year when we look forward

09:03:40:06 to the advent of God, the coming of God into our lives.
09:03:43:27 This is a time when we look forward to the peace that
09:03:45:27 God will bring into our hearts, into our country, into
09:03:49:00 this land.
09:03:49:28 It is a time of hope.
09:03:52:00 It is also a time of righteousness and justice and
09:03:56:21 equity and a time of great joy.
09:04:00:09 Let us pray together.
09:04:01:19 Most gracious God, as we elaborate and look forward to
09:04:09:28 the advent of your coming to the coming of God anew
09:04:16:01 this season, we pray that your righteousness and your
09:04:21:09 justice might be here for all people.
09:04:24:27 We pray, Lord, for the needy, for the poor of our
09:04:29:21 community, of our country.
09:04:32:00 We pray, Lord, that their needs may be met.
09:04:34:15 We pray, Lord, for quality health care for all of your
09:04:40:12 people and that everyone might have access to that
09:04:43:00 care.
09:04:43:06 We pray, God, for those that are homeless that they
09:04:50:09 might have shelter, those that are hungry, that they
09:04:53:00 might be fed.
09:04:54:03 For the sojourners and aliens in our midst that they
09:04:57:09 might receive hospitality and warm welcome.
09:04:59:22 We pray especially for all the children of our
09:05:04:21 community that they might receive the education and the

09:05:08:13 opportunities for education they need to be productive
09:05:12:06 adults.
09:05:12:19 Most gracious God, we look forward to your coming, and
09:05:17:00 we look forward to that day when the wolf shall live
09:05:20:13 with the lamb, leopards shall lie down with the kid.
09:05:24:13 The calf and the lion and the fatling together.
09:05:27:03 We look forward to that time when they will not hurt or
09:05:30:21 destroy anything anywhere in this land, the day when
09:05:36:06 your people will beat their swords into plowed shares
09:05:39:22 and spears into puny hooks.
09:05:41:25 And no one shall learn more anymore.
09:05:44:09 Grant us this time of peace.
09:05:50:24 Be with us, City Council, as they meet this day.
09:05:54:10 May they seek your will in the decisions they make.
09:05:57:06 May they do so with righteousness and justiceness and
09:06:00:22 equity in their hearts.
09:06:02:03 Amen.
09:06:02:25 [Pledge of Allegiance]
09:06:20:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
09:06:22:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:06:23:22 Here.
09:06:24:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:06:25:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:06:26:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:06:27:16 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.

09:06:30:09 >>THE CLERK: Caetano?
09:06:33:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:06:33:27 I would like to do a moment of silence for those
09:06:37:12 families in Omaha, Nebraska, who were killed.
09:06:41:25 I just think it was unthoughtful things to be done.
09:06:45:07 Let's bow our heads in silence, please.
09:06:47:21 Amen.
09:06:57:19 [Moment of Silence]
09:06:58:12 At this time, we have a commendation presented by
09:07:00:10 Ms. Mary Mulhern.
09:07:13:00 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm very happy today to present this
09:07:16:03 commendation to the Environmental Improvement Force,
09:07:19:06 EIF.
09:07:21:21 It's a group of parents.
09:07:23:18 It was founded by Leslie Farrell.
09:07:29:15 And we have Leslie and Michelle Garcia.
09:07:32:01 Kristin Sanders and Barbara Couture here to accept this
09:07:38:01 commendation.
09:07:38:16 The Environmental Improvement Force is a nonpolitical
09:07:40:04 group of parents, teachers and administrators that
09:07:42:03 strives to make our schools more environmentally
09:07:46:00 friendly.
09:07:46:10 EIF serves as a support through which members help each
09:07:50:10 other by sharing ideas and encouragement to make our
09:07:53:18 environmental improvement committees more successful at

09:07:56:01 our own individual schools.
09:07:57:15 It was established in May of this year, and they have
09:07:59:27 grown to include 93 members from more than 30 public
09:08:02:28 and private schools and have succeeded in beginning
09:08:05:25 recycling programs and other green initiatives in
09:08:09:09 several Tampa schools.
09:08:10:19 City of Tampa recycling coordinator Nina Stokes
09:08:13:21 described EIF as a catalyst in getting the city and
09:08:18:12 school district to agree on a plan to allow schools to
09:08:21:12 recycle.
09:08:22:00 And now this city has 20 schools recycling.
09:08:25:25 So I'm thrilled to present this to you.
09:08:34:15 >> Thank you so much.
09:08:42:03 >> When I asked my children what I should say to you
09:08:46:24 today, my youngest child, who is only five, had the
09:08:49:12 most to say, and said it with the most enthusiasm.
09:08:53:00 I found this interesting because sometimes it seems
09:08:55:03 like the younger we are, the easier it is to see things
09:08:59:03 clearer.
09:08:59:18 As we get older, our rushed schedules make us forget
09:09:03:18 that we are intrinsically connected to our planet, and
09:09:07:18 we must work to protect it.
09:09:07:25 The Environmental Improvement Force encourages school
09:09:07:25 PTAs to form environmental committees to make lasting
09:09:10:03 improvements at their schools, to set examples for

09:09:12:19 students, to involve them, and to help them set up
09:09:15:07 things like recycling programs, and student energy
09:09:17:28 patrols.
09:09:18:16 As adults, many of us opt for convenience.
09:09:22:15 Parents buy prepackaged lunches for their children
09:09:25:24 instead of making sandwiches without realizing how much
09:09:28:25 packaging waste they are creating.
09:09:30:10 Many of today's children are growing up thinking juice
09:09:32:21 comes in plastic Baggies or boxes and that water comes
09:09:35:22 in a bottle.
09:09:36:21 As adults, we have to consider that our society has
09:09:39:03 gone from drinking practically no bottled water a few
09:09:42:18 years ago to now going through 2,500,000 plastic
09:09:47:16 bottles every hour.
09:09:48:13 Our drinking water in this country is safe, yet we're
09:09:50:27 the number one consumer of bottled water.
09:09:53:04 Many children keep water bottles at their desk instead
09:09:56:03 of using the drinking fountain.
09:09:57:24 The majority don't even like the taste of the drinking
09:10:00:06 fountain or tap water anymore.
09:10:03:03 Waste in the lunchroom as anyone who has eaten in a
09:10:06:00 school cafeteria lately can tell you is tremendous.
09:10:09:06 Each meal is served on styrofoam.
09:10:12:00 Nearly every food is placed in another container on top
09:10:15:03 of the styrofoam.

09:10:16:13 Plastic eating utensils are also encased in plastic.
09:10:19:21 The economic impact in addition to the environmental
09:10:22:03 impact of all that waste is huge.
09:10:24:03 We can teach students to recycle, and we applaud Nina
09:10:26:16 Stokes with the City's recycling department for her
09:10:28:28 enthusiasm in setting up these programs.
09:10:30:19 In Tampa, we have 20 schools now recycling, and more on
09:10:33:25 the waiting list, which is a start, but we still have a
09:10:36:15 long way to go.
09:10:37:10 A big challenge will come when the city has to pay --
09:10:40:13 has to charge schools to pick up recyclables.
09:10:42:27 Many schools can't afford to pay for pickup, but our
09:10:45:25 city can't afford to not have them recycle.
09:10:48:09 When I asked some adult friends what I should say to
09:10:50:27 you, they said they want more information about green
09:10:53:03 living, where do we take our cardboard?
09:10:55:21 Our styrofoam?
09:10:57:04 Where do we take our batteries, they want to know.
09:11:01:25 They said to tell you we need safer streets for bikers
09:11:04:03 and pedestrians.
09:11:04:21 They want schools in public places with ground cover
09:11:07:07 requiring little water and no mowing instead of
09:11:09:07 high-maintenance grass.
09:11:10:10 They want our city to follow the path taken by other
09:11:12:18 cities that have made green living a top priority.

09:11:14:28 While there has been much bad news about the state of
09:11:18:24 the Earth, it is heartening to see that the community
09:11:21:09 has been so supportive of greening our schools and that
09:11:23:15 our little Environmental Improvement Force, which
09:11:25:27 started six months ago, has grown to include 94
09:11:28:22 parents, teachers, administrators, and interested
09:11:31:00 citizens who represent 30 schools.
09:11:33:09 People are worried, particularly about our human impact
09:11:36:12 on climate change.
09:11:37:18 Floridians want to help, and they want students to
09:11:40:06 learn about conservation and about protecting our
09:11:42:12 planet.
09:11:42:24 If you have children, you'll notice how much paper they
09:11:45:25 consume.
09:11:46:15 At my son's school alone, we order one to two reams of
09:11:50:12 paper every day just for office use.
09:11:52:21 Then teachers and the PTA use a lot more.
09:11:55:03 A few schools have switched to buying recycled office
09:11:58:03 paper, but it's more expensive and most schools don't
09:12:00:12 have the budget.
09:12:02:00 20% of the most impressionable and vulnerable of the
09:12:05:13 American population attends school.
09:12:07:15 So working within the schools to influence them and to
09:12:10:09 protect their future is crucial.
09:12:12:15 Thank you so much for inviting us here today and for

09:12:15:01 this recognition.
09:12:16:01 Please let me know if you'd like to be on the mailing
09:12:18:16 list for the environmental improvement force.
09:12:20:27 By the way, my children wanted me to tell you to
09:12:22:22 reduce, reuse, and recycle and to give your unwanted
09:12:25:22 clothing and stuffed animals to people who need them.
09:12:28:04 My oldest wants me to give you some statistics, so I
09:12:31:12 have a sheet here for you with statistics and also
09:12:34:10 simple things we can all do to help the planet and our
09:12:37:06 first newsletter which features tips for having a green
09:12:39:27 holiday.
09:12:40:07 I put my e-mail address here so if everybody wants a
09:12:50:15 copy, I can e-mail that.
09:12:52:22 >>MARY MULHERN: I was going to suggest, give out your
09:12:54:12 e-mail or your Web site, because all the school
09:12:57:22 administrators and teachers and PTA moms and dads
09:13:01:09 watching can get in touch with you.
09:13:05:21 >> My name LeslieBethFarrell@hotmail.com.
09:13:14:19 >> And it's the EIF. It's fantastic.
09:13:20:15 You're setting a great example for us, and we'll try to
09:13:23:16 do as much in the schools in city government.
09:13:25:12 Is Mitchell Elementary a member of your group?
09:13:33:18 >> Yeah.
09:13:35:19 >> How about Coleman?
09:13:36:12 >> Yes.

09:13:38:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Coleman is always number one in
09:13:40:18 everything.
09:13:40:25 [ LAUGHTER ]
09:13:41:21 Only because my granddaughters go there.
09:13:45:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I wanted to compliment you all for
09:13:48:22 what you're doing, and there's one other thing that you
09:13:51:10 might consider adding to your list.
09:13:53:03 Some parents get to school really early for carpool
09:13:59:12 line.
09:13:59:28 And I would like you all to publicize what kind of
09:14:03:07 carbon footprint you use if you're driving an SUV and
09:14:08:19 sitting in a carpool line for 30 minutes.
09:14:10:15 The idea is that the children will be willing to say to
09:14:14:03 the parents, pick me up on the later side so you don't
09:14:17:21 have to queue for so long.
09:14:19:13 I know at my kid's school, it's enormous.
09:14:22:27 If you can publicize that and I'll try to get
09:14:25:21 additional schools involved.
09:14:26:18 I think what you're doing is so terribly important.
09:14:29:06 >> Thank you.
09:14:29:16 We do have a teacher at McFarland Park who said she
09:14:32:07 was going to have students write an essay on that very
09:14:35:19 topic and then hand it out to the car line.
09:14:38:00 Wasn't that fantastic?
09:14:39:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's great.

09:14:40:27 Larry David's wife in Beverly Hills is evidently doing
09:14:45:06 this at the carpool line at her kid's school.
09:14:47:24 We have to spread the word.
09:14:48:03 There are a lot of SUVs waiting in a lot of carpool
09:14:51:28 lines.
09:14:52:24 >> [not at microphone]
09:14:54:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda.
09:14:55:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair, I compliment
09:14:57:03 you like Ms. Saul-Sena said.
09:14:58:12 If you really want to save things, follow what I've
09:15:00:18 done.
09:15:01:00 I got rid of my city computer when I came into office.
09:15:03:24 I have no printer, no computer, no nothing.
09:15:06:09 I can't spend no paper.
09:15:07:19 I don't even like to spend money.
09:15:09:18 The next thing I did, the one at the house last week,
09:15:12:03 the brand-new one that I bought for the election, I
09:15:14:15 gave everything away.
09:15:15:15 Printer, copier, fax machine, scanner, the whole thing
09:15:19:09 is gone.
09:15:20:03 Thank you for sending me in the right direction.
09:15:22:01 [ LAUGHTER ]
09:15:23:25 >> [not at microphone]
09:15:29:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No, it's because I didn't want to
09:15:31:12 learn how to use it.

09:15:32:01 >> [not at microphone]
09:15:32:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I can't hear you.
09:15:33:28 I took a haircut.
09:15:35:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:15:36:03 And continue the good work that you're doing.
09:15:38:01 Would Mr. Joe Waggoner please come forward?
09:15:43:03 Before I do this, Council members, Mr. Joe Waggoner is
09:16:07:21 the new director at the Expressway Authority, which I
09:16:12:15 sit on.
09:16:13:06 He wants to show you on excerpts of what's going on.
09:16:16:16 >> Actually, I provided a couple of CDs that you all
09:16:19:09 can look at at your convenience.
09:16:21:06 I know you have a long agenda.
09:16:22:28 We also brought a token of a coaster that you'll find
09:16:28:00 on our reversible express lane project.
09:16:30:28 So I can do my little --
09:16:33:18 >>GWEN MILLER: First, I'll present a commendation to
09:16:36:00 Tampa/Hillsborough Expressway Authority, the most
09:16:38:07 creative, innovative, and positive toll project in
09:16:42:12 2007.
09:16:43:10 In grateful recognition of receiving the 2007
09:16:46:19 international bridge, tunnel, and turnpike association
09:16:50:19 president award for the reversible expressway lanes
09:16:56:00 tolls initiative.
09:16:57:00 This award was given to the Tampa/Hillsborough

09:16:59:15 Expressway Authority for developing the most creative,
09:17:01:22 innovative, and positive toll operation project in the
09:17:04:24 world.
09:17:05:06 As a result, the reverse express lane concept has been
09:17:09:22 copied with projects in other cities throughout
09:17:12:06 America.
09:17:12:12 And for that commitment and hard work that the
09:17:15:24 Expressway Authority staff and Board of Directors
09:17:19:24 continue to contribute to successfully completing the
09:17:22:12 toll project, the Tampa City Council hereby commends
09:17:26:18 the Expressway Authority for earning such a prestigious
09:17:29:12 award.
09:17:30:12 We wish the Expressway Authority much success in the
09:17:32:18 coming years.
09:17:34:00 >> Thank you very much, Chairman.
09:17:36:24 [ APPLAUSE ]
09:17:37:01 Thank you, all, very much.
09:17:40:25 Thank you Chairwoman Miller, for inviting me here today
09:17:45:16 to share in this good news.
09:17:47:12 This award was received by Senator Hargrett, who was
09:17:50:10 the Chairman of the authority in October of 2007.
09:17:53:12 To convey the magnitude of the award, I want to -- I
09:17:58:00 ask you to understand that the International Bridge,
09:18:01:10 Toll and Turnpike Association, which we call IBTTA.
09:18:05:06 The name is very long and takes more time than we like

09:18:08:03 to.
09:18:08:06 It's an association recognized as the foremost tolling
09:18:12:06 association in the world.
09:18:13:16 It exists to share new ideas and best practices within
09:18:16:07 the tolling community.
09:18:17:25 There are over 200 toll agencies in the world, and
09:18:20:21 there are over 1,000 toll facilities in the world.
09:18:23:01 Reversible express lane project as recognized as one in
09:18:27:16 a thousand.
09:18:28:12 The concept is being copied in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
09:18:31:00 It's being copied in Alabama and Birmingham.
09:18:34:15 It's also being considered in other major urban areas
09:18:37:18 like Pittsburgh and Atlanta.
09:18:39:12 Our project opened in July of 2006, and it's performing
09:18:45:06 ahead of expectations.
09:18:46:06 But the best reward of all is that it's providing a
09:18:48:24 service that our customers truly appreciate.
09:18:51:07 The project is also a great example of how a toll road
09:18:55:27 can support transit.
09:18:57:21 I was talking to the new Executive Director of Hart the
09:19:00:28 other day, and he confirmed based on our observation
09:19:04:12 that that roadway enables Hart to provide one of their
09:19:07:24 best, if not their best express bus service route that
09:19:11:03 they offer.
09:19:11:28 It's working very well for them.

09:19:13:13 This project has received over a dozen awards.
09:19:17:13 It's a very creative solution, and it has put the City
09:19:22:12 of Tampa and Hillsborough County in the national and
09:19:25:12 international spotlight as a leader in transportation
09:19:27:24 solutions.
09:19:28:27 Please enjoy this recognition with us, and know that
09:19:35:09 this project has put this region on the map as an area
09:19:39:27 of progressive thinkers who are willing to take action
09:19:43:03 to make transportation improvements.
09:19:44:21 Thank you very much.
09:19:45:27 [ APPLAUSE ]
09:19:49:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Dingfelder would like to give you a
09:19:51:00 commendation, too.
09:19:59:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Joe, I guess we have a double header
09:20:02:01 today.
09:20:02:13 We wanted to welcome you, from Baltimore a few months
09:20:08:06 ago to lead our agency.
09:20:10:00 The agency has had bumpy roads over the last year or
09:20:13:03 two.
09:20:13:13 We're hearing great things about you.
09:20:15:27 As a member of the MPO, I enjoy working with you over
09:20:19:00 there.
09:20:19:21 We want to give you this commendation, also recognizing
09:20:21:25 the fact that the community received this award.
09:20:25:18 James Hargrett, former State Senator, went to Vienna,

09:20:30:10 Austria, to receive the award on behalf of the board.
09:20:34:25 So anyway, with that, here's another commendation, and
09:20:38:19 we appreciate your hard work.
09:20:40:15 >> Thank you, sir.
09:20:41:03 Thank you very much.
09:20:41:07 [ APPLAUSE ]
09:20:45:00 >> One brief comment, this agency has been through some
09:20:48:09 hard times, but largely in part to the efforts of
09:20:52:21 Senator Hargrett to Steven Reich, who was the interim
09:20:56:27 director, and our Board of Directors.
09:20:58:22 I think the agency has turned a corner and is facing in
09:21:01:21 a great direction.
09:21:03:06 The challenges they went through are not unusual in
09:21:05:15 that when you're an agency that has one set of
09:21:09:12 responsibilities for a long period of time, say 20
09:21:12:07 years, taking care -- you take on a very different kind
09:21:16:28 of challenge, you could stumble.
09:21:19:00 And that, unfortunately, is what happened.
09:21:20:12 I came from an agency in Maryland that had the same
09:21:23:27 kind of challenge.
09:21:25:03 For 30 years they were kind of caretaker position,
09:21:28:09 taking care of facilities.
09:21:29:15 Within six years of my being there at that agency, the
09:21:32:21 Maryland transportation authority, their capital
09:21:35:04 program went from a hundred million dollars a year to a

09:21:37:25 program in a six-year period that was four billion
09:21:40:03 dollars.
09:21:40:15 They faced the same kind of issue.
09:21:43:00 The benefit they had is they had a little more time to
09:21:45:06 react.
09:21:46:01 And retool and reorganize.
09:21:52:03 And that happened in a much more compress time frame
09:21:54:24 here, again, thanks to senator Hargrett and board
09:21:58:06 members.
09:21:58:21 I think we're heading in a good direction.
09:22:00:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Madam Chair, for serving
09:22:01:19 with that board for many years.
09:22:03:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Waggoner, I wanted to share with
09:22:05:18 you that -- as a city that's very interested in good
09:22:11:06 urban design, the Expressway Authority's innovative
09:22:14:24 approach to the Meridian street parkway absolutely
09:22:18:28 reshape what had been a no-man's-land between downtown
09:22:23:06 and the Channel District.
09:22:24:04 It had been an area of high weeds, abandoned railroad
09:22:27:25 tracks.
09:22:28:06 It was really unattractive.
09:22:29:18 Now it is a very attractive gateway.
09:22:31:24 And you all played a key role in that.
09:22:34:21 Now I know you're involved in the connector between I-4
09:22:38:22 and the Port of Tampa.

09:22:40:28 And it's going through a very special neighborhood to
09:22:43:22 all of us.
09:22:45:06 Palmetto beach.
09:22:45:24 And I look forward to you being good stewards with that
09:22:49:03 neighborhood in the same way that you were in the
09:22:52:19 Channel District area.
09:22:53:15 Because every time a roadway or an expressway impacts a
09:23:01:03 neighborhood, it's profound.
09:23:02:00 And we need to do it with great care and conversation
09:23:04:24 with the people affected.
09:23:06:09 I look forward to that being a very positive project
09:23:08:27 also.
09:23:09:15 >> Thank you.
09:23:10:09 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to say congratulations
09:23:13:15 and welcome.
09:23:14:04 I think this community really wants you to stay here.
09:23:16:21 We're giving you commendations.
09:23:19:18 And it's great to work with you, and really looking
09:23:22:09 forward to doing more on City Council and the MPO.
09:23:29:04 >> Thank you very much.
09:23:29:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:23:30:04 At this time, we'll turn to our City Attorney for
09:23:32:24 Council members.
09:23:34:15 Mr. Shelby.
09:23:37:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: [microphone not on] the City Attorney

09:23:43:16 is here to make requests of Council to request --
09:23:47:01 Mr. Smith, I'm sorry.
09:23:53:00 >>DAVID SMITH: Good morning.
09:23:55:28 David Smith, City Attorney.
09:23:57:01 I have two items actually back to back on the errata
09:24:01:03 sheet or the agenda addendum.
09:24:03:06 The first one is the Tampa Electric franchise
09:24:06:27 agreement.
09:24:07:12 Unfortunately, we do not have a finished document, as I
09:24:11:00 stand before you today.
09:24:13:12 We have had yet another bump in the road occur.
09:24:17:24 Refrain from any characterization of the problem.
09:24:21:06 Let's just say these are fairly intense negotiations,
09:24:23:25 and we have some differences of opinion that have not
09:24:26:00 yet been resolved.
09:24:27:03 So I do not believe -- we will not be ready on the
09:24:32:01 13th, because I don't have the document for you
09:24:34:15 today.
09:24:34:27 And you, I think, rightly want to at least review these
09:24:38:03 things for a week.
09:24:39:00 That having been said, I think we can set it
09:24:41:24 tentatively for the 20th.
09:24:43:07 I do not currently have a meeting scheduled with them
09:24:46:00 to resolve these last few issues, so I can't guarantee
09:24:50:10 we could have it by the 20th, but I would hope that

09:24:53:06 time would be made so you could have it on the 20th.
09:24:55:21 But it's your schedule.
09:24:58:09 You know what else you have on it.
09:25:00:06 You know, you need to obviously take all those factors
09:25:05:00 into account.
09:25:05:25 And part of that is the very second item on this
09:25:08:06 agenda.
09:25:08:18 And that is I'm asking you to set a closed session on
09:25:13:06 Magyar for next week.
09:25:16:18 We had a closed session on this case.
09:25:19:12 You are all familiar with the facts.
09:25:21:06 We have had a mediation in the interim.
09:25:22:12 And there is a settlement proposal on the table.
09:25:24:19 It's complicated.
09:25:26:10 It doesn't exactly follow specifically the directions
09:25:29:07 that I received from Council, so I need to speak with
09:25:33:21 you about it.
09:25:34:13 It won't take a great deal of time.
09:25:36:06 I'm meeting with each of you individually ahead of time
09:25:39:21 as well.
09:25:39:27 So I would think if we can set that, say, next week on
09:25:42:04 the 13th at 11:30, we'd be out of here before lunch.
09:25:46:13 I don't think it will take a half an hour.
09:25:49:04 So my recommendation on Magyar would be to set it for a
09:25:54:06 closed session.

09:25:54:15 We can literally do it here.
09:25:54:16 Close up the chambers.
09:25:55:06 Have the court reporter here, have our conversation,
09:25:57:12 and move on.
09:25:58:07 And then you would come back into session, and you can
09:26:00:25 vote appropriately as you deem fit.
09:26:04:18 That brings us back to TECO.
09:26:06:12 But I wanted to make sure you had the Magyar issue in
09:26:11:00 front of you when you talk internally about what you
09:26:12:24 want to do with the franchise agreement.
09:26:15:03 >>GWEN MILLER: It's just been brought to my attention
09:26:16:25 that we have a chamber luncheon --
09:26:20:24 >> No, it's the 13th.
09:26:22:06 Chamber luncheon.
09:26:24:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: How long is the CRA going to take?
09:26:27:06 Put something else on that day --
09:26:34:01 >>DAVID SMITH: You have Citivest that day at 10:30.
09:26:36:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What we agreed to do was we agreed to
09:26:37:03 end the CRA meeting at 10:30 so we could take up
09:26:39:28 Citivest so we could be out on time to go to the
09:26:45:00 chamber luncheon at 11:30 on that day.
09:26:47:25 So that would create a problem at 11:30.
09:26:50:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Rather come back at 1:30 then.
09:26:53:00 >>DAVID SMITH: I would suggest one alternative for your
09:26:54:09 consideration.

09:26:55:04 Citivest at 10:30 and Magyar at 11.
09:27:00:01 I don't think Citivest is going to take you more than a
09:27:02:15 half an hour.
09:27:03:04 And I don't think Magyar will take you more than a half
09:27:05:07 hour.
09:27:06:00 >>GWEN MILLER: If that's the case, we can do both of
09:27:08:13 them.
09:27:09:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:27:09:13 If we end the Citivest conversation in a more
09:27:12:07 concentrated -- if we end by, let's say, 10:45, can we
09:27:15:22 go into our closed session then?
09:27:17:28 >>DAVID SMITH: If we set it for a time that's 10:30.
09:27:20:15 You can have it any time that date and thereafter.
09:27:24:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why not set Magyar for 10:30 and
09:27:26:18 after Citivest.
09:27:27:07 So moved.
09:27:28:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second.
09:27:29:19 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
09:27:31:00 All in favor of the motion, aye.
09:27:32:12 Opposed, nay.
09:27:33:15 Now, for TECO, Mr. Shelby.
09:27:37:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: [microphone not on]
09:27:41:00 >>DAVID SMITH: Good question.
09:27:41:22 I'm glad you asked that, Mr. Shelby.
09:27:44:21 One of the things I think Council needs to decide

09:27:47:24 probably up front is for the first workshop, do you
09:27:50:00 want to receive public input?
09:27:52:15 My recommendation is no because the agreement is so
09:27:55:22 complicated, I'm going to give it to you, but it is not
09:27:59:25 easy to follow.
09:28:00:18 So what I suggest we do for the first workshop, is we
09:28:03:18 literally walk through it.
09:28:06:00 You have whatever colloquy you want to have.
09:28:08:19 We answer whatever questions we can.
09:28:10:03 If you want a workshop at a second time, fine, but you
09:28:13:24 are going to have two hearings, because it is an
09:28:16:18 ordinance.
09:28:17:00 I suggest you set whatever amount of time you want for
09:28:19:03 TECO for the franchise agreement.
09:28:21:01 We have whatever internal dialogue visible to the
09:28:24:12 public you want to have, and then you can decide how to
09:28:27:07 proceed from there.
09:28:28:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
09:28:29:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I just wanted to point
09:28:31:16 something else out about the 20th.
09:28:33:09 There's a memo from Darrell Smith requesting 15
09:28:38:06 minutes -- their 15-minute presentation on this issue
09:28:42:24 of the security and janitorial elimination of those
09:28:46:00 departments as well as other aspects of changing the
09:28:48:09 business of government program.

09:28:49:24 So they are looking for 15 minutes.
09:28:52:07 I'm sure that that discussion will take quite a bit
09:28:55:22 longer.
09:28:56:03 And I'm just wondering hand in hand with that, David,
09:29:02:28 we're squooshing this into December, but it's my
09:29:06:18 recollection this thing has been lingering for about a
09:29:09:19 year or two, and no offense intended.
09:29:11:22 So why are we cramming it in December?
09:29:16:00 Why don't we just calmly schedule this for January?
09:29:19:27 >>DAVID SMITH: There is no legal reason why you could
09:29:21:04 not do that.
09:29:21:24 The status is, as a matter of law, when an agreement is
09:29:25:00 not replaced, it's tantamount to a holdover tenant.
09:29:28:13 Everyone is honoring the current franchise agreement on
09:29:31:00 a go-forward basis.
09:29:33:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's what we've been doing for
09:29:35:15 quite a while.
09:29:37:18 >>DAVID SMITH: Yes, sir.
09:29:38:00 Year and a half, I believe.
09:29:39:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena.
09:29:40:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:29:40:22 I think the TECO franchise agreement is tremendously
09:29:44:18 important, and I think it deserves a lot of attention.
09:29:47:13 And I think the holidays are a time when we are really
09:29:51:27 pushed with a lot of information, therefore -- and I

09:29:55:25 also think in addition to the time that you spend
09:29:58:06 sharing it with us, we need an additional conversation
09:30:01:13 before it comes back to us for our first public
09:30:04:00 hearing.
09:30:04:15 Because I've been working on this issue for 12 years.
09:30:08:04 Trust me, I have some things I want to add to the
09:30:10:07 conversation.
09:30:10:19 So I think we should have the first orientation from
09:30:13:06 you in January.
09:30:14:27 Then have maybe a special discussion meeting after
09:30:17:10 that.
09:30:17:21 Then have the public hearings.
09:30:19:01 So perhaps the second meeting in January, because the
09:30:23:06 first one will be very busy.
09:30:25:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, would you consider setting it
09:30:26:24 on a workshop day in January?
09:30:28:07 I'm sorry.
09:30:31:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Reverend Scott.
09:30:33:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I think we should have the
09:30:34:27 workshop, and I agree with Mr. Smith that we not have
09:30:38:12 public hearing.
09:30:38:27 Initially we set our workshop not to have public input.
09:30:42:21 You know, you all made some changes last time.
09:30:44:24 But originally, the workshop was basically for us to
09:30:48:12 have information brought to us to be informed, ask any

09:30:51:00 questions, and they are set for the fourth Thursday of
09:30:55:19 the month.
09:30:56:21 I'm for the workshop.
09:31:04:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda.
09:31:06:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
09:31:07:10 Mr. Smith, these two items, I believe you mentioned
09:31:10:12 there are two items not complete.
09:31:12:28 Are they anything of great consequential value?
09:31:16:00 Are they small?
09:31:17:13 >>DAVID SMITH: Are you referring to the franchise
09:31:19:01 agreement itself?
09:31:20:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, sir.
09:31:21:00 >>DAVID SMITH: Actually, as of yesterday, we have more
09:31:23:04 than two items.
09:31:23:12 We seem to somehow revisit issues that are seemingly
09:31:24:04 resolved, but when I get drafts back, we have yet
09:31:28:21 additional revisions.
09:31:29:16 They may say the same thing of us.
09:31:31:24 There are two really critical issues, and then the rest
09:31:34:15 of it is kind of epiphenomenal from there.
09:31:38:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: How many issues original, six or
09:31:40:12 seven?
09:31:41:18 >>DAVID SMITH: We had about six or seven, we thought.
09:31:43:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: After a year and a half, only
09:31:45:03 two-thirds completed.

09:31:46:03 >>DAVID SMITH: No, no.
09:31:47:03 At the outset, you look at the revisions, there were
09:31:50:15 hundreds of revisions in the document we sent.
09:31:52:15 It's been whittled down, just a tough process.
09:31:57:09 They are good at what they do.
09:31:59:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena.
09:32:01:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Madam Chairman.
09:32:02:01 On January 24th, we have a workshop session.
09:32:04:19 Why don't we schedule a presentation by Mr. Smith to us
09:32:07:27 at that time, and then what I'm suggesting is that we
09:32:14:10 not necessarily have a full Council meeting with public
09:32:17:04 input, prior to the public hearings, but I want a
09:32:19:25 special discussion meeting just however many Council
09:32:23:00 members show up, however many, if any staff, maybe
09:32:26:25 Legal Department would show up, TECO.
09:32:28:21 Anyway, my motion is to have a presentation by
09:32:31:06 Mr. Smith on the TECO franchise on January 24th,
09:32:34:18 which is the City Council workshop session at 10:00.
09:32:39:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I was going to second that.
09:32:42:00 As long as we say workshop.
09:32:44:13 That means everybody needs to be here and ask whatever
09:32:46:28 questions we need.
09:32:47:21 Okay.
09:32:48:06 That's fine.
09:32:48:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Any questions, Council members?

09:32:50:10 We have a motion and second.
09:32:52:21 Scheduled for January the 24th at 10 a.m.
09:32:54:27 All in favor of the motion, say aye.
09:32:56:12 Opposed, nay.
09:32:58:24 >>DAVID SMITH: Thank you very much.
09:33:04:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do we have a workshop at 9:00 that day?
09:33:06:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: We have several.
09:33:09:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Already?
09:33:10:09 >> Yes.
09:33:12:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Cindy Miller would like to have a
09:33:14:00 request of Council at this time.
09:33:16:04 >> Good morning, Madam Chair, members of Council.
09:33:18:19 Cindy Miller, director of growth management and
09:33:21:00 development services.
09:33:21:24 And I think my request by the time I get to the end of
09:33:25:04 it, January 24th, is going to look like a very full
09:33:28:13 agenda, but perhaps we can work together on this.
09:33:30:27 One thing I would like to -- the topic is basically
09:33:35:24 sustainability green initiatives for the City of Tampa.
09:33:38:18 One thing I would like to especially compliment
09:33:43:15 councilman Dingfelder on is he put together the
09:33:46:00 fact-finding committee that you all had directed.
09:33:49:00 I don't really know if the public or you realizes the
09:33:52:27 range and depth of knowledge of the people that he was
09:33:55:27 able to pull together that I was happy to participate

09:33:58:18 as a co-chair.
09:33:59:10 They were really folks that are already from all
09:34:06:00 disciplines, from all levels and size of business
09:34:08:21 across the board.
09:34:09:16 And the good thing is, they are already actively doing
09:34:12:06 things that are improving sustainability efforts
09:34:14:16 throughout the community, Tampa, and really throughout
09:34:16:12 the country.
09:34:16:27 In some cases we had folks doing this throughout the
09:34:19:07 world.
09:34:19:19 So he is certainly to be complimented at the quality of
09:34:23:21 people that came forth for this.
09:34:25:15 One thing I was hearing some of the discussion last
09:34:28:25 week about setting up meetings to be able to exchange
09:34:33:24 information among Council members.
09:34:35:10 One thing that I would like to ask you to do and this
09:34:39:18 is basically, I guess, would be directing me and my
09:34:42:00 staff to pull it together for a workshop.
09:34:44:10 I was hoping for the January date, and hopefully that
09:34:46:18 will still work.
09:34:47:18 What I would like to request of Council is that you ask
09:34:54:04 me and other appropriate city staff to summarize the
09:34:58:03 information provided by the group, the committee that
09:35:00:24 was put together as a fact-finding committee, that we
09:35:03:25 develop a matrix or other clear presentation of the

09:35:06:16 information that they provided, that we come back to
09:35:11:25 shortly after January 1st, roughly the second -- I
09:35:15:15 was looking at the first workshop on January 24th,
09:35:17:28 and be able to outline that information as well as have
09:35:23:00 a time line for proposed code modifications or code
09:35:27:18 discussion, shall we say, that may have arisen from
09:35:30:03 that group.
09:35:30:24 I think it was unclear in some of our meetings as to
09:35:35:06 which code sections this might apply to.
09:35:39:01 Everyone looks sort of at me and looks at Land
09:35:41:01 Development Coordination and automatically thinks
09:35:43:13 chapter 27.
09:35:44:12 Chapter 27 does contain with it that it only has two
09:35:47:18 modifications per year.
09:35:49:10 The rest of the code section do see not, the other
09:35:51:16 chapters.
09:35:51:28 So what I would also like to be able to bring back to
09:35:54:24 Council -- well, really as part of that workshop prior
09:35:58:00 to any kind of discussion on that workshop, is an
09:36:01:10 outline of where there were items suggested -- not
09:36:05:24 suggested, that other jurisdictions are doing that we
09:36:09:12 may look at chapter 27 so that you can look at and be
09:36:12:13 able to direct it to Land Development Coordination, and
09:36:14:27 then at that workshop as well, we will then have
09:36:18:01 basically an outline of which other chapters we

09:36:20:06 believe.
09:36:20:16 The one that comes right to the forefront along with 27
09:36:23:03 is chapter 13, which is the landscape code.
09:36:25:24 We already know that between irrigation and the types
09:36:28:18 of plants that we are requiring, we have sort of a
09:36:31:24 convoluted circle that is unclear.
09:36:34:18 That's the first one we want to tackle and hopefully
09:36:37:07 we'll have something for you at that workshop.
09:36:39:10 Basically, I would like to -- I know that's sort of a
09:36:42:01 long, drawnout motion, but I would like to be able to
09:36:44:19 do that.
09:36:45:04 You already have on the 24th a comprehensive plan
09:36:48:19 portion for that workshop on the 24th, and some of
09:36:51:21 these initiatives from this fact-finding committee
09:36:53:27 would fit right into that comprehensive plan workshop.
09:36:56:24 So hopefully we can work them together.
09:36:59:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena.
09:37:00:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:37:01:00 I'm pleased to hear that you're working on all this.
09:37:04:06 This is something that we're eager to do.
09:37:09:04 I have a question for my colleagues on Council.
09:37:10:24 And that is, if there's some -- if this is complex and
09:37:14:13 this is important, then we need to do it.
09:37:17:06 And I'm okay with doing extra work outside of our
09:37:21:15 Thursday sessions by having special discussion meetings

09:37:24:03 and then bringing back the results of that to Council.
09:37:27:04 This is the way we've done previously with the tree
09:37:29:12 ordinance, with the sign ordinance, where a lot of the
09:37:34:25 more detailed work gets done between Council members,
09:37:38:21 the citizenry and staff.
09:37:40:03 And then it comes back to Council in a more distilled
09:37:42:24 form for explanation and then adoption.
09:37:45:12 So that's a model I would like to look at, simply
09:37:49:10 because I don't want to put this off to February.
09:37:51:10 And I'd rather come back the 24th with the distilled
09:37:54:03 version and have a special discussion meeting prior to
09:37:56:09 that as we had discussed at our last meeting, where
09:37:59:00 John is bringing back what he's written, where you are
09:38:01:04 sharing what you've done and as a working group, kind
09:38:04:03 of put our heads together and then bring something more
09:38:06:16 polished to Council.
09:38:08:15 >> And Madam Chair, from my standpoint to the
09:38:10:18 standpoint of my staff, we will be happy to meet with
09:38:13:13 Council collectively or individually, whichever is the
09:38:15:19 way to get the work accomplished.
09:38:18:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Great.
09:38:19:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern.
09:38:20:24 >>MARY MULHERN: We did set a date for the special
09:38:23:27 discussion meeting, correct?
09:38:27:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I have that as December 18th, a

09:38:29:21 Tuesday at 4 p.m. in the Mascotte Room.
09:38:34:12 >>MARY MULHERN: And that's an opportunity for staff to
09:38:37:00 come and talk to us.
09:38:38:24 We did this because Council, because of scheduling and
09:38:46:06 advice, legal advice we got, weren't able to
09:38:49:24 participate in that fact-finding committee.
09:38:53:12 And this will be our first time to hear from councilman
09:38:56:00 Dingfelder on his, you know, findings, and his work
09:39:00:27 that he's in the process of.
09:39:02:18 So we're going to do that.
09:39:04:12 And that's the perfect opportunity for staff -- start
09:39:08:12 talking to us.
09:39:09:06 >> Well, very honestly, we won't have all of the
09:39:11:01 information gathered that we can present as to exactly
09:39:14:09 which chapters by that date.
09:39:16:00 That's why I'm asking to take that into a January
09:39:18:28 workshop.
09:39:20:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
09:39:21:04 I've got a great idea.
09:39:22:18 Why don't we go ahead and have the special discussion
09:39:24:24 meeting in December.
09:39:25:18 Have another special discussion meeting in January.
09:39:27:13 And put a report on for the workshop on January 24th,
09:39:30:16 which can be the distillation of a lot of this work.
09:39:33:06 So my motion is to put on the distilled report on the

09:39:36:06 24th workshop date at 10:15.
09:39:39:00 Which we all know will probably be later than that,
09:39:41:27 given that we have five other workshops, but we'll do
09:39:44:21 our best.
09:39:47:04 >> I'll sending.
09:39:47:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
09:39:49:03 All in favor, aye.
09:39:51:19 >> Do you want another special discussion meeting in
09:39:53:03 January?
09:39:53:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
09:39:55:03 When you think you would be ready.
09:39:56:15 Maybe the Wednesday before the Thursday.
09:39:57:21 Or maybe like the week -- maybe mid January.
09:40:00:24 Whatever is good for --
09:40:04:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Don't we have a special session on the
09:40:06:15 18th?
09:40:07:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, December 18th.
09:40:09:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: She's talking about January.
09:40:10:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, we can set that in January.
09:40:12:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
09:40:13:16 UM, if I could --
09:40:16:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
09:40:17:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Miller, and I think
09:40:18:19 those are great ideas from everybody, Ms. Saul-Sena,
09:40:20:22 Ms. Mulhern.

09:40:21:15 And I appreciate the administration jumping in and
09:40:26:15 wanting to do this.
09:40:30:09 I did want to make a motion -- this is just sort of a
09:40:35:00 procedural motion.
09:40:35:18 But the fact-finding committee, in my opinion, we've
09:40:37:25 done a lot of fact gathering, and I've been advised by
09:40:41:12 legal counsel that since counsel set up the
09:40:45:06 fact-finding committee that we should now abolish it so
09:40:48:01 that way we can free our hands to do other things.
09:40:50:16 With that, I'll move to thank the fact-finding
09:40:53:18 committee and various people who came and went and
09:40:56:00 helped us with a lot of ideas and to abolish the
09:40:59:04 committee as of this date.
09:41:02:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:41:03:12 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
09:41:05:00 All in favor, aye.
09:41:06:00 Opposed, nay.
09:41:07:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I look forward to working with
09:41:09:06 Cindy and her staff and the Mayor and then, of course,
09:41:13:16 Council on these issues.
09:41:18:06 >> Was there a motion for the workshop?
09:41:20:12 >> Yes.
09:41:22:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 10:15 on the 24th.
09:41:25:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Of course, feel free to attend the
09:41:27:18 special discussion December 18th.

09:41:30:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, Council, you have a request by
09:41:34:16 Julie Kabougeris, the assistant city attorney, to
09:41:39:12 substitute the ordinance for item number three.
09:41:42:09 I don't know if you want to do them individually or
09:41:44:24 take the motion now to amend --
09:41:47:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why don't we hear from the public?
09:41:50:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: This is just a substitute.
09:41:52:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Then move the substitute ordinance.
09:41:55:16 >> Second.
09:41:55:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
09:41:56:28 All in favor, aye.
09:41:57:28 Opposed, nay.
09:41:59:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, you received a memo from
09:42:00:28 James Buckner, the director of technology and
09:42:03:12 innovation requesting, as was previously referenced, 15
09:42:06:19 minutes for changing the business of government
09:42:09:03 presentation by the administration on December 20th,
09:42:12:15 and they are requesting that that be set.
09:42:15:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
09:42:17:06 >> Second.
09:42:18:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That will be -- I think they just
09:42:20:15 want to piggyback on the motion already there.
09:42:24:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Would you like that item to be
09:42:26:12 adjacent to the items similar that had been previously
09:42:31:01 set regarding Council's request?

09:42:33:15 >> Yes.
09:42:34:03 >> Sure.
09:42:35:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And that would be set for 15 minutes
09:42:37:27 under unfinished business in staff reports?
09:42:40:09 >> Yes.
09:42:40:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Um-hum.
09:42:45:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think what we should do is just
09:42:47:09 amend the prior motion to combine -- combine the
09:42:50:22 Mayor's report on changing the business of government
09:42:54:22 with the -- whatever information they are or aren't
09:43:00:03 going to bring us about -- you know, those two specific
09:43:02:21 programs.
09:43:03:15 I think there are still outstanding issues on those two
09:43:07:12 specific programs.
09:43:08:25 Even though they don't want to provide some of the
09:43:11:01 information, but there's still information that they
09:43:12:15 can provide and will provide, I'm sure.
09:43:14:15 So we'll just combine.
09:43:17:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move to withdraw my motion and
09:43:19:18 instead go with the motion --
09:43:23:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The motion would be just to take our
09:43:25:06 earlier motion and put it into what time slot,
09:43:29:09 Mr. Shelby?
09:43:30:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It would be the staff reports and
09:43:32:04 unfinished business with the items that you've already

09:43:35:24 previously scheduled related to the same subject.
09:43:37:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.
09:43:38:04 And expand to 15 minutes.
09:43:40:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 15 minutes.
09:43:41:06 >>GWEN MILLER: What date?
09:43:42:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: December 20th.
09:43:43:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Now, I need to caution Council,
09:43:46:18 staff is looking for a presentation of 15 minutes.
09:43:49:06 And I'm going to guess, knowing myself and the rest of
09:43:53:15 Council, that we'll be beyond the 15 minutes that staff
09:43:56:18 is going to do in terms of the discussion that we might
09:43:58:27 have.
09:43:59:04 So that's just a word of caution.
09:44:04:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Word of caution, Council members, be
09:44:07:00 cautious.
09:44:08:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Are you admitting to something, sir?
09:44:10:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm admitting to the fact that it's
09:44:11:18 a hot potato, and it might involve some cooking.
09:44:14:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Council, be cautious.
09:44:16:21 That's it.
09:44:19:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Question on the motion.
09:44:20:00 On the 20th already, isn't that agenda packed?
09:44:23:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Yep.
09:44:24:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It always is before the holidays.
09:44:26:18 You take two weeks off --

09:44:29:25 >> You pay the price.
09:44:30:25 >>GWEN MILLER: And we probably have to break.
09:44:33:09 That's the day we have our luncheon.
09:44:35:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We'll come back afterwards.
09:44:38:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Did it get a second?
09:44:39:27 We have a motion and second.
09:44:40:27 All in favor, aye.
09:44:42:00 Opposed, nay.
09:44:43:00 Mr. Shelby.
09:44:44:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, Council, item 69 has asked to
09:44:47:18 have that resolution removed from the agenda because
09:44:49:12 they are going to be having it run concurrently with a
09:44:52:06 rezoning request.
09:44:53:12 >> So moved.
09:44:54:00 >> Second.
09:44:54:12 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
09:44:55:09 All in favor of the motion, aye.
09:44:56:22 Opposed, nay.
09:44:58:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Items 102 and 106, Council, are going
09:45:00:27 to be withdrawn, but those are set for a time certain.
09:45:03:22 You can do that now, but I just wanted to be able to
09:45:06:18 announce at the time that when that item does come up,
09:45:09:24 it was withdrawn.
09:45:11:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So move.
09:45:13:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

09:45:13:18 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor, aye.
09:45:14:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If there are any other ideas --
09:45:17:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Did we get item 85?
09:45:19:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, we didn't.
09:45:20:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like to move 85 be given an
09:45:23:24 additional 90 days.
09:45:25:13 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second on 85.
09:45:27:09 All in favor of the motion, aye.
09:45:28:24 Opposed, nay.
09:45:29:28 Mr. Dingfelder.
09:45:36:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I had sent some questions in to
09:45:38:12 administration, and we were still dialoguing as of
09:45:41:12 yesterday afternoon about item 34.
09:45:43:18 When we get to item 34, which is in Mr. Miranda's
09:45:47:24 group, if we could have staff here to answer any
09:45:51:27 questions.
09:45:52:07 Thank you.
09:45:52:19 34.
09:46:05:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's related to stormwater.
09:46:07:07 I assumed it was Mr. Miranda.
09:46:11:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's your request then to have staff
09:46:13:21 present for that to be discussed?
09:46:16:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I already asked them by e-mail
09:46:17:16 yesterday.
09:46:19:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 34 and also on item 50, I want to pull

09:46:25:06 that just for highlighting.
09:46:29:00 >>GWEN MILLER: You want to pull it or do you want
09:46:30:10 someone here to speak on it?
09:46:38:21 50.
09:46:40:13 Whoever committee that is.
09:46:42:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And now, Madam Chair, if I believe if
09:46:44:00 there are no other changes, you're ready for a vote on
09:46:46:15 the approval of the agenda as amended.
09:46:48:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to approve the agenda.
09:46:51:10 All in favor, aye.
09:46:52:03 Opposed, nay.
09:46:52:21 Is there anyone in the public that would like to speak
09:46:54:28 on any item on the agenda that's not set for a public
09:46:57:24 hearing?
09:46:58:04 You may come up and speak.
09:47:01:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Madam Chair, this is the new order of
09:47:04:06 business, I should remind Council and public
09:47:07:21 respectfully, that any items set for unfinished
09:47:10:18 business or staff reports, that are going to become
09:47:14:13 subsequent to this point in the agenda should be
09:47:16:12 discussed now under public comment.
09:47:20:10 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
09:47:20:21 You may speak.
09:47:21:21 >> Great.
09:47:22:06 Good morning.

09:47:22:21 I'm Lisa cane DeVito.
09:47:25:09 I live at 714 south Davis Boulevard in Tampa.
09:47:29:06 I'm the president of the Davis Island Civic
09:47:32:16 Association.
09:47:33:09 And the item to which I'm speaking is actually one, I
09:47:38:04 believe, that councilwoman Saul-Sena and Mr. Dingfelder
09:47:40:21 have asked to be later on the agenda as a report from
09:47:43:27 the City Attorney.
09:47:44:19 Very briefly, the Hillsborough County aviation
09:47:48:22 authority several months ago had some hearings for the
09:47:51:24 Davis Island neighborhood concerning their immediate
09:47:55:07 plans to add pavement to runway 3/21 bringing it closer
09:48:01:12 to a number of homes on the southwest part of the
09:48:04:06 island in addition to construct a number of hangars all
09:48:09:12 along the eastern seawall of the channel facing the
09:48:13:12 port that would have a significant impact on the view
09:48:17:22 and green area at the southwest end of Davis Island.
09:48:21:19 First of all, I'd like to say that the Davis Island
09:48:25:04 Civic Association and the residents, we support the
09:48:28:22 Peter O'Knight airport on Davis Island.
09:48:31:21 Many of our residents and Civic Association members use
09:48:34:16 that airport.
09:48:35:12 And the airport has been a good neighbor in many ways,
09:48:38:18 although there are a few unresolved issues.
09:48:41:06 Davis Island residents and the Civic Association have

09:48:44:10 spent a lot of time, and the airport has spent a lot of
09:48:47:18 time explaining the proposed changes to us.
09:48:49:27 And very regretfully for a number of reasons, the Civic
09:48:53:28 Association at the request of many, many of our
09:48:57:00 residents has adopted a resolution opposing the planned
09:49:02:09 extension or -- they don't call it extension, but the
09:49:05:10 planned addition of pavement to runway 3/21 and the
09:49:09:09 additional hangars.
09:49:10:24 We have a significant difference of opinion, very
09:49:13:03 respectfully, between many of our residents and the
09:49:15:21 Aviation Authority as to whether the safety measures
09:49:19:27 that they need to accomplish can be done in the way
09:49:22:07 that they propose or in a different way.
09:49:24:28 Many of our residents have spent a lot of time looking
09:49:27:12 into this.
09:49:28:12 People with a great deal of expertise, and they believe
09:49:31:03 that it could be done in a different way.
09:49:33:06 In respect of your time, I will not give you all a
09:49:37:09 reason.
09:49:37:21 Our reasons are in our resolution, which I have copies
09:49:39:24 for all the Council members and the clerk.
09:49:42:18 But we resolved as follows: The Davis Island Civic
09:49:45:24 Association opposes plans of the Hillsborough County
09:49:48:12 Aviation Authority to reconfigure, extend, or add
09:49:51:21 pavement to the southwest end of runway 3/21 and

09:49:55:03 opposes the development of the hangars on the property
09:49:57:15 on the east side of Peter O'Knight Airport adjacent to
09:50:01:00 Seddon Channel.
09:50:02:03 Such changes would be incompatible and detrimental to
09:50:05:09 the current vision and residential and recreational
09:50:09:12 uses on Davis Island.
09:50:11:12 And we're aware that you may not necessarily have
09:50:15:15 jurisdiction.
09:50:15:22 We hope that you can find some, but we also hope that
09:50:18:21 you'll do whatever you can to help this neighborhood.
09:50:21:00 Thank you very much.
09:50:21:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:50:35:06 >> Hello.
09:50:35:24 I'm Stephanie Rogers.
09:50:37:01 And I'm here on behalf as the vice president of the
09:50:40:09 young Davis Islanders, which is a youth service
09:50:43:00 organization of about 200 members, families who live on
09:50:47:12 Davis Island.
09:50:48:07 And I'm just here to express the support for our
09:50:53:09 organization for what the Civic Association has written
09:50:57:09 up.
09:50:57:19 Thank you.
09:51:03:18 >> Good morning, Madam Chair, John Grandoff, Suite
09:51:06:06 3700, Bank of America Plaza.
09:51:08:06 I don't have any particular comment on any item other

09:51:10:04 than I'd like clarification on item 92.
09:51:13:03 It doesn't state where this is occurring.
09:51:21:10 I don't know if -- you're approving an appeal, but it
09:51:26:04 doesn't tell the public where this occurred.
09:51:32:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Which item is that?
09:51:34:09 >> 92.
09:51:35:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What's the location of the item?
09:51:37:24 >> Item 92.
09:51:39:28 >> That's the point.
09:51:40:28 I don't know.
09:51:42:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think that's on Howard between
09:51:45:06 grace and Nassau on the western side of Howard going
09:51:52:13 back I believe three lots on Grace and two lots on
09:51:55:21 Nassau.
09:51:56:18 But I'm not certain, but that's what my memory tells
09:51:59:09 me.
09:51:59:21 >> But is your ordinance correct -- is the short title
09:52:04:06 of your ordinance correct if it doesn't state where
09:52:06:15 it's occurring?
09:52:07:24 I just want a clarification.
09:52:10:15 >>JULIA COLE: I request you give me the opportunity to
09:52:12:10 review that issue and discuss that with Mr. Grandoff.
09:52:15:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:52:17:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And for Council to be more specific, I
09:52:20:03 believe it's 1106 and 1108 North Howard Avenue.

09:52:23:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It's 1104, 1202 Howard, 2311 and
09:52:27:21 2315 Grace.
09:52:29:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I stand corrected.
09:52:31:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No, I'm not correcting you --
09:52:33:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You're absolutely right.
09:52:35:00 >> She's looking at a different number.
09:52:38:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 92 and 95.
09:52:39:25 They are basically together.
09:52:40:25 They are different, but I don't know if --
09:52:48:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Ms. Cole will take a look.
09:52:49:28 >>JULIA COLE: The address is 1106 and 1108 North
09:52:52:16 Howard.
09:52:52:24 And what I hear Mr. Grandoff saying is he's raising a
09:52:57:06 procedural issue and I need to review that issue and
09:52:59:09 determine whether or not there is any issue.
09:53:00:19 Thank you.
09:53:01:12 >>GWEN MILLER: You may speak now.
09:53:03:10 >> Thank you, ma'am.
09:53:04:06 My name is Laura Diez, a resident of Davis Island.
09:53:11:19 I felt it so important to be here today that I
09:53:13:27 cancelled my flight to Dallas pertaining to the Peter
09:53:17:15 O'Knight airport.
09:53:19:01 Originally, I had believed in some kind of compromise,
09:53:21:25 but after going to the Davis Island Civic Association
09:53:25:06 meeting, I found out that there are alternatives to

09:53:29:15 adding that to that extra piece of pavement that they
09:53:34:09 are wanting to add.
09:53:35:15 I believe that what they are trying to do eventually is
09:53:37:25 to increase the amount of flights coming into Peter
09:53:40:27 O'Knight airport.
09:53:42:15 They also want to put up these ugly looking warehouse
09:53:46:01 hangar buildings all along the waterside, which would
09:53:50:01 affect the view, and it would also affect the water
09:53:57:00 runoff.
09:53:58:09 I am totally against what they are looking to do.
09:54:00:15 It's going to ruin our quality of life.
09:54:03:09 It started off as a small community airport, and what
09:54:06:24 they are trying to do is to really increase the amount
09:54:09:21 of flights, which is really going to disturb the
09:54:13:18 residents of Davis Island.
09:54:14:21 I also live adjacent to the TATES and I also was
09:54:19:09 personally affected by that airplane crash, and every
09:54:22:28 day when I hear those loud planes go by, it still
09:54:27:12 affects me.
09:54:28:01 We also have the danger of what is sitting across from
09:54:31:09 us and the increase of planes will increase the danger
09:54:37:15 of a plane wreck happening in that area.
09:54:40:06 And it also affects our environment.
09:54:42:01 And that's all I wanted to say.
09:54:44:03 Thank you.

09:54:44:15 Thank you for hearing me.
09:54:46:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
09:54:47:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Um, and you're probably aware of
09:54:49:18 this, on item 86, we've asked the Legal Department to
09:54:53:07 at least identify to the Council what the city's role
09:55:00:09 is, what limitations we have or don't have in terms of
09:55:03:07 addressing the issues.
09:55:04:15 I don't know what they are going to say.
09:55:05:21 But hopefully -- stick around and we'll see what they
09:55:07:21 have to say on item 86.
09:55:09:06 >> I know Pam Iorio is part of the aviation board, and
09:55:11:15 I hope she votes against anything they are looking to
09:55:15:00 do.
09:55:15:07 I also have spent hours and hours trying to research
09:55:17:21 where they are getting their funding from.
09:55:19:10 And I keep hitting brick walls.
09:55:22:12 So I don't know if the city has anything to do with
09:55:25:06 that, or if that's all federal funds that come in.
09:55:27:24 So I'm a little uneducated in that area.
09:55:30:04 Any help that you can provide I would appreciate.
09:55:33:06 I e-mailed you all last night, and I have a copy of the
09:55:36:04 master plan that I'd like to leave with someone,
09:55:39:06 because this, once you read this, they only give you
09:55:43:03 this much information.
09:55:44:12 Of this master plan tells you everything and what the

09:55:47:09 future plans will bring.
09:55:49:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Reverend Scott.
09:55:51:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Madam Chair and members of Council, I
09:55:52:21 served five years on the Aviation Authority.
09:55:54:18 Number one, what I would suggest is that we ask or
09:55:57:09 request Mr. Louis Miller to come and make a
09:55:59:27 presentation to Council so that way we can have an
09:56:03:06 understanding of what the issue really is.
09:56:05:04 Secondly, you need to know what the federal mandates
09:56:08:06 are and all that, whether it's federally mandated and
09:56:11:06 if the funds are coming from the federal government.
09:56:14:24 The only two source of funding they get, that's the
09:56:17:19 federal government, F.D.O.T., too, and also from where
09:56:21:27 they get fees from those airlines and that sort of
09:56:25:09 thing.
09:56:25:16 >> I appreciate it.
09:56:26:19 Because they are giving you this much information.
09:56:28:15 And once you read that master plan, it tells you a lot
09:56:31:10 more on what their plans bring to the future of Davis
09:56:34:15 Island.
09:56:35:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So what you can do, we can request
09:56:38:27 Mr. Miller to come and make a presentation to us on
09:56:41:06 this particular issue.
09:56:42:21 That way you'll be brought up to speed.
09:56:44:09 The Mayor does sit on the Aviation Authority as a

09:56:46:27 member as well as a county commissioner and the other
09:56:50:04 is appointed by the governor.
09:56:52:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I will second your motion, Reverend
09:56:54:01 Scott.
09:56:55:00 And I was on Council when Dick Greco was Mayor, and he
09:56:59:27 made a deal with the Aviation Authority that seemed
09:57:02:21 wonderful at the time, which was we the city had been
09:57:06:15 receiving a dollar a year from the Aviation Authority
09:57:08:27 for the property.
09:57:09:15 And instead, we got $5 million.
09:57:11:10 We sold them the property --
09:57:13:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena, hold just a minute.
09:57:16:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Sorry to interrupt.
09:57:18:12 I was going to suggest you hold the motion until after
09:57:20:18 public comment.
09:57:23:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: At the time, I believed there were
09:57:25:06 public statements made about the future of the Davis
09:57:27:00 Island airport, which I remember being that it was
09:57:29:24 going to continue in the current manner, which is a
09:57:33:25 small, private airport.
09:57:35:09 I don't remember conversations about its expansion.
09:57:38:13 So my challenge to the city clerk is to look up five
09:57:42:27 million from the Aviation Authority and see what public
09:57:46:03 commitments were made to the island residents at that
09:57:47:24 time.

09:57:48:06 Because I think that would be very valuable for our
09:57:50:24 conversation now.
09:57:51:09 And this is the good news about institutional memory.
09:57:55:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When we get to that -- [INAUDIBLE]
09:57:59:04 >> Thank you.
09:57:59:24 Thank you very much.
09:58:00:16 >> My name is Bob Green.
09:58:01:27 I'm also a Davis Island resident speaking on the Peter
09:58:04:15 O'Knight Airport expansion.
09:58:06:09 Truly, I look at this as two complete separate issues.
09:58:11:09 There's absolutely a huge quality-of-life issue.
09:58:14:22 I think the residents have spoken.
09:58:17:06 The Civic Association has very, very solid approach on
09:58:20:00 the quality of life.
09:58:21:09 The second part really does tie into more of the legal
09:58:24:15 aspect of the expansion, and I'm not an attorney, but I
09:58:27:25 look at it in two different areas when I start looking
09:58:31:04 at the legal side.
09:58:32:00 The airport authority, the Aviation Authority created a
09:58:35:06 master plan in 2003, which you now have a copy.
09:58:38:27 It is -- it specifically showed that the expansion was
09:58:43:27 going to go into the channel and not towards the
09:58:46:06 residents.
09:58:46:15 So they have made a significant change in their master
09:58:50:06 plan.

09:58:50:28 And the question comes in, in my mind is, when you make
09:58:54:01 a significant change in a master plan, what is the
09:58:57:03 limit before you have to now go through a process?
09:58:59:24 Because if that's acceptable to now move 175 feet
09:59:03:03 towards the residents, why is it not -- why not just
09:59:06:06 expand the length of the runway 500 feet or completely
09:59:10:27 increase it?
09:59:11:15 Where and at what point does it have to go back through
09:59:16:03 some type of an approval process at the county or the
09:59:19:21 city level?
09:59:20:06 The second part of this really ties into the noise
09:59:25:04 itself and their original master plan.
09:59:27:27 Their master plan right now has noise levels above the
09:59:33:12 limits set by the FAA on residences on Davis Island.
09:59:37:27 In their master plan itself in 2003 recommended a
09:59:41:13 further noise study that the Aviation Authority never
09:59:44:00 bothered to perform.
09:59:44:27 They do not know what the noise levels are currently at
09:59:47:24 the airport because they have no mechanism whatsoever
09:59:52:21 to determine the types of planes, number of takeoffs,
09:59:54:21 the number of landings.
09:59:55:24 So they don't know what is really going on at the
09:59:57:28 airport, because they are not monitoring that.
09:59:59:21 My final comment really does go back to the original
10:00:03:21 land sale agreement.

10:00:05:18 What I recall, because I was right in the middle of it
10:00:08:09 also, I recall that the aviation department said we
10:00:13:22 will not perform any more development closer to the
10:00:17:04 residents.
10:00:17:22 We will move it all towards the channel in a
10:00:20:28 development we do.
10:00:21:24 Now, Louis Miller has said, well, we were really only
10:00:26:22 talking about hangars.
10:00:28:00 We weren't talking about airport improvements.
10:00:30:09 I personally view that adding 175 feet worth of asphalt
10:00:34:10 towards the residents is a development.
10:00:37:21 So in my mind, based on what was promised back when the
10:00:41:28 land sale agreement, is there is a direct conflict of
10:00:45:00 what was promised and what was there.
10:00:46:22 I urge you, the Council, to review this carefully.
10:00:50:03 Again, I don't know whether you have any real authority
10:00:52:03 to make any major decisions other than to potentially
10:00:57:07 talk to the Mayor and the other members of the board to
10:01:01:03 reject these planned development by the staff.
10:01:03:21 Thank you.
10:01:04:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:01:04:18 Anyone else like to speak?
10:01:05:24 If you're going to speak, please come up and speak.
10:01:14:15 >> Chip Thomas, 1219 east Henry Avenue.
10:01:17:00 And I want to talk about watering restrictions.

10:01:20:18 We have all of our -- all of our water sources are down
10:01:25:03 pretty precariously, river flows, lake levels,
10:01:27:24 groundwater supplies.
10:01:28:24 They are all down.
10:01:30:00 And on top of that, all the forecasts are calling for a
10:01:33:28 drier than usual dry season over the next six months,
10:01:37:10 eight months.
10:01:38:10 This is last Thursday's trib.
10:01:40:22 Expect drier and drier.
10:01:42:13 I don't know if that was play on dumb and dumber, but a
10:01:44:24 week and a half ago, S.W.F.W.M.D. decided that it was
10:01:48:03 okay given all this to continue allowing one-day-a-week
10:01:54:04 watering of lawns.
10:01:54:27 We're talking about something that is essential for our
10:01:57:09 survival, and we're willing to trade that for something
10:02:00:06 that has nothing to do with survival.
10:02:03:00 It's simply anesthetic preference.
10:02:05:27 That's grass.
10:02:06:15 This is an opportunity for you to provide some
10:02:10:10 forward-thinking leadership badly needed that will take
10:02:15:24 us in the direction of sustainability.
10:02:17:19 It would be easy and safe to follow S.W.F.W.M.D.'s lead
10:02:21:24 and just keep water restrictions as they are.
10:02:25:00 I know it's been City Council's tendency over the years
10:02:27:16 to see what St. Petersburg is doing or let's wait and

10:02:31:21 follow what Sarasota does.
10:02:34:18 But are you leaders of this community or are you
10:02:37:18 followers of other communities?
10:02:39:15 You can eliminate all use of tap water in the City of
10:02:43:18 Tampa.
10:02:44:18 And we need to get away from this culture of changing,
10:02:48:22 altering, manipulating, conquering our surroundings.
10:02:52:03 When you look around, probably you could measure in
10:02:54:19 square miles, the amount of land that we cleared out
10:02:58:12 native flora and replaced it with sod of St. Augustine
10:03:01:21 grass that doesn't like this climate, and it needs
10:03:04:27 water and fertilizers and pesticides.
10:03:06:19 And all of those are bad for our water supply.
10:03:09:03 And in Georgia, they haven't done much, and now they
10:03:14:15 are left with a strategy of hope and prayer, where they
10:03:21:01 actually staged a prayer on -- I don't know -- the
10:03:24:18 state capitol steps a few weeks ago.
10:03:27:24 What if we are only halfway into a four-year drought?
10:03:30:16 You know, nature operates on a time scale much
10:03:34:03 different than what we think.
10:03:35:03 Four years would be nothing.
10:03:36:13 What if we don't get rains this summer or next winter.
10:03:39:12 We don't really have much recourse if we wait till
10:03:42:16 then.
10:03:42:24 So I'm wondering if one or two of you have the courage

10:03:46:00 to make a motion and second a motion and two more of
10:03:48:28 you have the foresight to support such a motion.
10:03:52:06 You might find that you get a lot of credit and
10:03:55:15 accolades for taking such steps.
10:03:58:09 And furthermore, I know there will be resistance.
10:04:00:19 You'll get some criticism from a few short-sided,
10:04:04:19 selfish citizens who want only what they want without
10:04:09:00 regard for what's best for the general area, and you
10:04:11:21 may get an earful from people in the lawn care industry
10:04:16:09 or the sod industry.
10:04:17:12 This is an opportunity for people in the sod industry
10:04:19:28 to start growing natives and low and no-maintenance
10:04:23:15 ground covers.
10:04:24:04 There would be a huge market for that.
10:04:26:16 There's going to be.
10:04:27:06 This has to happen.
10:04:28:16 The lawn care people can educate themselves and take on
10:04:31:03 a consultant, an advising role where there might be
10:04:34:18 better money and certainly better working conditions
10:04:36:27 than just coming and mowing and blowing every week.
10:04:39:27 They can help businesses and people transform their
10:04:42:06 great expanses of lawn into Florida friendly
10:04:46:06 landscapes.
10:04:46:25 Thank you for your time.
10:04:49:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.

10:04:49:16 Next.
10:04:56:06 >> Good morning, Madam Chair, Honorable Council
10:04:56:13 Members.
10:04:57:06 Grace Yang, 201 North Franklin Street.
10:04:59:21 I am here to request Council's consideration to set a
10:05:02:27 wet zoning petition for hearing on January 17th.
10:05:05:18 This is petition WZ08-36.
10:05:09:18 The petitioner is RSG Liquors, LLC.
10:05:13:03 I believe you all might have received my letter in a
10:05:16:24 packet with this request yesterday morning.
10:05:19:19 This is a petition to try to remove a condition on an
10:05:24:00 existing wet zone ordinance there.
10:05:25:15 And the petition has been certified.
10:05:28:25 The city clerk has the petition, but unfortunately, it
10:05:32:15 missed the doc agenda deadline to be added onto your
10:05:36:15 agenda today to be set for hearing on January 17th.
10:05:40:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
10:05:40:28 I don't know if I could discuss the issue, maybe the
10:05:45:12 attorney can guide me between the two sidelines.
10:05:47:10 We had a lengthy hearing on that discussion.
10:05:51:12 We had some neighborhood opposition.
10:05:53:03 I thought we came up with a pretty nice, workable
10:05:55:25 solution.
10:05:56:03 This is the property on MacDill Avenue.
10:05:58:03 >> Yes, sir.

10:05:59:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And Horatio.
10:06:02:21 >> 2507 MacDill Avenue.
10:06:05:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I thought we did very well where
10:06:06:27 they could store the items there, take them out to
10:06:09:27 wherever they were going to.
10:06:12:18 What we didn't want to go to, if I remember all of it,
10:06:15:27 a package store operation.
10:06:17:18 Well, we didn't want any takeout people buying in and
10:06:20:15 taking it out and disturbing the neighborhood.
10:06:23:19 I don't know what's happened between that period of
10:06:27:10 time which was a short period within two months, if I
10:06:30:15 recall, and what I received yesterday, but I'm a little
10:06:34:03 perplexed to understand why you accepted those
10:06:37:21 petitions -- conditions, I should say, and why we tried
10:06:40:27 to change it now.
10:06:42:04 I don't think that has any business interference with a
10:06:45:19 good operation and wonderful name that this eatery
10:06:48:21 certainly has.
10:06:48:28 >> Ms. Kert.
10:06:50:18 >> Madam Chair, if I may, the only issue that Ms. Yang
10:06:55:01 is bringing before you is a scheduling issue.
10:06:57:04 They do have a right to come forth -- it's almost like
10:06:59:12 a brand-new petition and ask for removal of condition.
10:07:02:06 If they do that, it's a brand-new hearing.
10:07:04:01 Any conversation about the substance of it outside of

10:07:06:15 the hearing when it is eventually set isn't
10:07:09:06 appropriate.
10:07:09:12 The issue now is whether or not city council is willing
10:07:12:13 to allow them to be set on the date that they are
10:07:14:24 requesting.
10:07:15:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena.
10:07:16:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question, which is timing.
10:07:18:24 Are you -- isn't there like a six-month or some kind of
10:07:23:22 time frame after an approval before which people can
10:07:26:06 come back --
10:07:27:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Only for denial.
10:07:29:04 >> Yes, Mr. Dingfelder is correct.
10:07:31:18 Not for removal of conditions.
10:07:33:00 That's for if there was an actual denial of the
10:07:35:04 petition.
10:07:36:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So the -- I guess the issue then is
10:07:39:00 this is a scheduling issue of whether it wants to be --
10:07:43:00 if Council is willing to have it heard on January 17 or
10:07:46:13 another date.
10:07:47:12 But as Ms. Kert said, the issue is ultimately that it
10:07:48:12 is their legal right to have it heard.
10:07:49:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move to have it on
10:07:51:00 January 13th -- 17th or 13th?
10:07:54:28 >> 17th, January 17th.
10:07:57:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What time?

10:07:58:06 10:00 in the morning on the '08 year.
10:08:03:16 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:08:04:24 Question on the motion?
10:08:07:00 Mr. Dingfelder.
10:08:08:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I did want to point out Mr. Miranda
10:08:11:09 is correct.
10:08:11:27 We approved that on August 10th or the Mayor signed
10:08:15:03 it on August 10, 2007, just to -- it hasn't been very
10:08:20:24 long.
10:08:21:15 But I was just wondering what's the urgency, Ms. Yang
10:08:27:06 in terms of getting this done?
10:08:28:25 >> Unfortunately, I wasn't involved in the original
10:08:31:09 petition request.
10:08:32:04 I was not the authorized agent on the original petition
10:08:34:18 that you all heard and voted to approve on
10:08:37:15 August 10th.
10:08:38:19 I was brought in subsequent to that just about a month
10:08:42:25 ago to try to work on this.
10:08:44:21 The way that the client and the petitioner explained it
10:08:47:19 to me is, after they realized the conditions on the
10:08:51:25 ordinance, they realized that the conditions did not
10:08:55:25 mesh very well --
10:08:58:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm just wondering what the urgency
10:08:59:18 is in terms of January versus February.
10:09:02:09 >> The urgency just being they would like to adjust the

10:09:05:24 business model a little sooner.
10:09:08:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do we know how many other we have
10:09:10:27 that day?
10:09:13:01 >>Rebecca Kert: Rebecca Kert, Legal Department.
10:09:15:00 I don't have the schedule.
10:09:17:06 I have been told by Ms. Yang that she contacted Cathy
10:09:19:09 Coyle in Land Development, and, in fact, one of the wet
10:09:22:12 zoning petitions you had scheduled had dropped out and
10:09:24:18 there was room available.
10:09:25:03 That's all.
10:09:26:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: According to your calendar, Council,
10:09:27:18 you presently have three set, assuming that that one
10:09:29:25 is --
10:09:31:01 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:09:32:01 All in favor of the motion, aye.
10:09:33:16 Opposed, nay.
10:09:34:13 Thank you.
10:09:35:15 Next speaker.
10:09:37:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Yang, I urge you to meet with
10:09:39:16 the Neighborhood Association.
10:09:40:16 Thank you.
10:09:41:01 >> Good morning.
10:09:41:27 John Socio.
10:09:43:25 I wanted to state for the record I live on Davis Island
10:09:47:12 regarding the Peter O'Knight airport.

10:09:49:07 What you're going to hear when they come in to do their
10:09:52:19 presentation is what we have heard four times now.
10:09:54:15 It won't change.
10:09:56:03 Their presentation will be the same.
10:09:57:21 And our evidence is to the contrary.
10:10:00:03 So what you will hear we are convinced is not accurate.
10:10:04:00 So we'll have to come back for that meeting, I guess,
10:10:06:28 and go into that whole presentation.
10:10:08:13 But we know what their presentation is.
10:10:11:03 And we're convinced that it's not accurate, and that
10:10:13:12 our information is accurate and the impact is far more
10:10:16:27 detrimental than their presentation is.
10:10:19:09 They indicated they are not going to change it, they
10:10:22:00 won't change it and they can do what they want.
10:10:24:07 My wife feels like she's a prisoner in her own home.
10:10:28:01 Her back porch on the weekends in particular, we can't
10:10:31:03 hold conversations no more than a half an hour.
10:10:34:04 We have to wait for the planes to go by.
10:10:36:00 It's getting noisier.
10:10:37:21 It's getting louder.
10:10:39:01 And if they had come in, I believe more forth right in
10:10:42:28 what their plans really were, rather than understate
10:10:46:18 all the impacts, I think they would have been better
10:10:49:04 received by the community.
10:10:50:15 But I feel the community has been misled by their data

10:10:53:13 and their facts and their information.
10:10:55:09 And I hope that you will not be misled by it as well if
10:10:59:21 when you hear the facts and information that we put
10:11:02:01 together.
10:11:02:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:11:04:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Maybe five million dollars wasn't
10:11:06:12 such a good deal after all.
10:11:08:07 >> Well, it's a park, and it's a beautiful place.
10:11:10:25 If you want to yell over lunch, have a noisy lunch,
10:11:15:13 with the airplanes, that's where we're headed.
10:11:17:27 It's a shame, because it was a beautiful piece of
10:11:19:27 property out there.
10:11:21:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone else like to speak?
10:11:22:21 At this time, I'll ask, is there anyone -- anyone in
10:11:26:13 the public like to request reconsideration?
10:11:28:09 Anyone in the public like to request legislative
10:11:32:00 reconsideration?
10:11:32:15 Okay.
10:11:34:16 We'll go to our ordinance for first reading.
10:11:37:06 We have a substitute motion.
10:11:39:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I was thinking that maybe we should
10:11:40:16 set the time when we're going to ask Mr. Miller to
10:11:43:12 speak so that the people who are here from the island
10:11:45:15 will know that date.
10:11:48:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think the City Attorney asked us to

10:11:50:03 hold off on that motion until he makes his
10:11:52:06 presentation.
10:11:52:15 So I agreed to do that.
10:11:56:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Jump up number 86 then?
10:11:58:25 I move to waive the rules and jump up 86.
10:12:02:06 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:12:03:13 All in favor, aye.
10:12:04:13 Opposed, nay.
10:12:05:09 >> Good morning, David Smith, City Attorney.
10:12:07:12 I appreciate you taking this out of order.
10:12:09:04 Bear in mind, this just came to our attention for the
10:12:12:21 first time last Thursday when I believe this Council
10:12:15:07 brought it up.
10:12:16:00 As you know, I generally like to have more time than
10:12:22:24 that, because sometimes these issues are very
10:12:24:16 complicated.
10:12:25:01 And as I listen to the comments from the people who
10:12:27:21 live on Davis Island, this issue is considerably more
10:12:32:01 complicated than we have been informed to date.
10:12:34:18 I can only tell you what we have been told.
10:12:37:01 I cannot tell you it is based upon our personal
10:12:40:16 research because we haven't had the opportunity to do
10:12:42:22 that.
10:12:43:00 What we are being advised is that this issue really
10:12:48:09 doesn't have any jurisdictional contact with the

10:12:51:24 Council.
10:12:52:06 What I heard from the neighborhood might suggest
10:12:54:25 otherwise, however.
10:12:55:18 The point being that I've been advised, this is -- what
10:12:58:24 happens with airports is they do a master plan.
10:13:01:25 There's a federal process for that.
10:13:04:21 There's a noticed hearing for that.
10:13:06:00 There's an opportunity to participate.
10:13:07:16 There is an approved master plan for this airport.
10:13:11:04 I've been advised that the changes they are
10:13:14:01 contemplating are consistent with the master plan.
10:13:18:04 That's a fact question.
10:13:19:07 I don't think any of us really know the facts, and you
10:13:21:15 don't have facts until you have sworn testimony.
10:13:24:07 I don't know if this even comes before this body.
10:13:26:12 I mean, what is our jurisdiction here?
10:13:28:25 But my point is, just to give you the context, I'm
10:13:31:21 advised it's an FAA issue.
10:13:34:01 If they want to change their master plan, they need to
10:13:36:04 go through a process through the FAA.
10:13:38:00 We do have local zoning.
10:13:40:19 We spoke with Gloria Moreda, actually, Julia Cole spoke
10:13:44:24 with Gloria Moreda.
10:13:46:04 She advised us that nothing that they are doing
10:13:48:12 requires a rezoning or an amendment to the rezoning,

10:13:52:04 and, therefore, that we have no jurisdiction.
10:13:54:00 Once again, that's a fact question.
10:13:56:16 I am not in the position to tell you.
10:13:59:00 I'm an engineer and I can attest to the accuracy of
10:14:02:13 that statement.
10:14:03:15 I'm telling you what I've been advised.
10:14:05:04 What I've also been advised -- and this is probably the
10:14:07:21 last bit of information I have and it's probably the
10:14:09:28 same thing the residents of Davis Island have been
10:14:11:28 told -- and that is that there is no reconfiguration of
10:14:14:09 the runway.
10:14:16:00 There will be no new notice to mariners or notice to
10:14:21:10 pilots -- sorry, I got a Navy term in there -- that the
10:14:21:25 lighting will remain the same.
10:14:23:18 What they are, quote, doing is they are paving the
10:14:26:06 safety zone.
10:14:27:04 A safety zone, according to the federal regulations, is
10:14:30:09 supposed to be paved.
10:14:31:09 Theirs was grassed.
10:14:32:09 So their statement to us is that they are doing nothing
10:14:35:16 that changes the master plan.
10:14:38:12 Now, having provided you that context, what I suggest
10:14:42:06 we do, because I cannot tell you, A, you have no
10:14:45:15 jurisdiction or, B, what your jurisdiction is.
10:14:47:19 What I've been told would suggest we don't, but I think

10:14:52:03 we need to look at this issue a little more carefully.
10:14:54:28 We need to hear from some of the individuals who
10:14:58:10 believe there is, A, a violation of the current zoning.
10:15:01:25 That is an issue that would be cognizable by this board
10:15:05:21 and then also hear from the airport authority so
10:15:08:00 everybody has an opportunity to be heard on this issue.
10:15:11:03 So I guess what I would be suggesting today is that we
10:15:17:16 have more time to look into this issue and come back to
10:15:20:18 you with a little more definitive understanding of
10:15:23:06 exactly where we are, and see if there is an interface
10:15:28:01 with this Council to take some action in this regard.
10:15:31:15 And obviously, if there's a fact dispute, then we need
10:15:35:04 to think about how we can resolve that fact dispute,
10:15:37:27 which it sounds like we have.
10:15:40:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Reverend Scott.
10:15:43:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, Madam Chair, I'm not opposed to
10:15:45:25 that.
10:15:46:10 I would support that.
10:15:47:00 I still think, though -- my five years of experience,
10:15:49:25 one is I have a lot of respect for Mr. Lou Miller, who
10:15:54:16 is the Executive Director.
10:15:55:09 Pretty much -- has always been open to the community.
10:15:59:19 I will tell you that.
10:16:00:27 Secondly, it all depends on what FAA requires and what
10:16:05:18 they are mandating.

10:16:06:18 That becomes the other issue.
10:16:08:09 And thirdly, I think it would be good not only you
10:16:12:06 start meeting now, but I think it would be healthy --
10:16:14:24 or helpful that we still have a presentation from
10:16:17:00 Mr. Miller.
10:16:17:19 That way we are informed.
10:16:19:10 Whether we have jurisdiction or not, I have found that
10:16:21:24 is always important that when an elected body gets
10:16:27:10 involved, it has a tendency to add a little more weight
10:16:32:15 and credibility to the process.
10:16:34:03 So that's been my experience.
10:16:36:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena and Mr. Miranda.
10:16:39:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:16:40:00 I think, Mr. Smith, I think that the areas in which,
10:16:43:09 according to my understanding, which is limited, I
10:16:46:03 would suggest that you look.
10:16:48:15 Is it -- if there's additional paving that's closer to
10:16:56:18 residents, if the entire -- what the Davis Island
10:17:00:21 residents explained to me is that there is a shift
10:17:04:13 toward residential uses westward.
10:17:07:03 And if that's true, and if it's a change to a site plan
10:17:11:21 that was, of course, approved by Council as part of the
10:17:14:18 MAP zoning, then perhaps that's an area where Council
10:17:17:27 has some jurisdiction.
10:17:19:03 So that would be an area for your research.

10:17:21:27 Perhaps we should schedule this in January so that our
10:17:26:12 Legal Department has a chance to do their research.
10:17:28:25 Mr. Miller has a chance to get it on his calendar.
10:17:32:09 And the other participant, I think, would help with
10:17:35:00 this conversation is the Environmental Protection
10:17:35:22 Commission who can talk to us about the noise
10:17:40:27 implications and whether -- and what their role would
10:17:43:21 be.
10:17:44:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda.
10:17:46:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
10:17:47:03 In fairness to everyone, I echo the sentiment of the
10:17:52:18 Council members who have spoken to this item.
10:17:54:28 I would also ask -- and I think it was brought up by
10:17:58:21 Ms. Saul-Sena a few minutes ago, that the clerk's
10:18:03:22 office retrieve those files from the original debate on
10:18:10:22 Peter O'Knight which happened sometime in the early
10:18:15:00 2000 years, and there were a lot of hearings on that.
10:18:19:06 There were many hearings at the Davis Island Civic
10:18:23:12 Association, back there on the waterfront, and there
10:18:26:24 was certainly a long debate here on City Council, and
10:18:31:06 there was a give and take from both sides.
10:18:33:16 I remember that very distinctly.
10:18:35:12 I do not remember all the details of the agreement.
10:18:39:04 That's why if the clerk's office could retrieve that
10:18:42:28 and make copies available to the City Council and the

10:18:47:03 City Council attorney, one for the City Attorney or
10:18:49:21 roughly nine copies, maybe ten copies so that all of us
10:18:53:18 when we come down to that date that's going to be set,
10:18:56:27 would certainly be informed what happened in the past
10:19:00:07 so we could understand what may happen in the future.
10:19:02:21 I think going backwards in this case is a thing that we
10:19:07:22 need to do to find out what was said and how it was
10:19:11:24 said and what it affects on that property today.
10:19:14:15 And I echo the sentiments of Council member Saul-Sena
10:19:17:22 that we should have this at a later date, sometime in
10:19:21:01 January to find out what's really happening so that all
10:19:24:13 of us can digest what happened.
10:19:30:18 There were three Council members here today that were
10:19:33:15 here when that was originally done.
10:19:35:10 So I think that would be a good tool for us to use to
10:19:39:24 determine what the facts really are.
10:19:42:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
10:19:43:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
10:19:44:06 And thank you, David.
10:19:46:25 First, I want to recognize former councilman Rudy
10:19:50:21 Fernandez and welcome back.
10:19:53:15 And also a Davis Island resident and neighbor of the
10:19:56:22 airport.
10:19:57:07 Rudy, are you familiar -- or anybody else in your
10:20:01:07 group -- are you all familiar with anything that's time

10:20:03:24 sensitive on this issue?
10:20:05:07 Are they starting construction, you know, next week?
10:20:09:27 Are there administrative issues going on that we need
10:20:12:00 to know about?
10:20:13:03 Otherwise, if it's not time sensitive, January is fine.
10:20:18:00 I know it's awkward for you to be on that side of the
10:20:20:15 podium.
10:20:21:03 >> Rudy Fernandez, 107 Martinique.
10:20:23:00 I told my wife and kids I wouldn't be up here, so
10:20:25:21 sorry.
10:20:26:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Nice tie there.
10:20:28:15 >> Thank you.
10:20:28:27 At any rate, my understanding is the airport is
10:20:31:18 planning to vote on this item in early January.
10:20:34:25 They've delayed the vote a couple of times.
10:20:37:16 So if you had Mr. Miller coming after January whatever
10:20:40:00 date it is, I believe it's the 9th or 10th, they
10:20:43:00 would have to delay it again, which is fine with me,
10:20:45:18 but that's your call.
10:20:46:24 The second item is, just a slight correction.
10:20:50:09 I believe the time this came to a vote on City Council
10:20:52:21 was back around '98.
10:20:55:00 That was my recollection.
10:20:56:18 It may have come back again in the early 2000s.
10:20:59:01 But when this master plan came onboard and the reason I

10:21:02:25 remember that is I was on Council until March -- April
10:21:05:27 fool's day of '99.
10:21:07:27 So it was about a year before that.
10:21:09:15 When you go look in the records, that's probably when
10:21:11:27 you want to check it out.
10:21:13:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Rudy.
10:21:16:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And I have no problem.
10:21:18:27 Maybe our second meeting.
10:21:21:13 I know, they basically already meet the third Thursday.
10:21:27:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I believe it's an earlier date.
10:21:29:25 Maybe we can request they put that off --
10:21:33:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Linda will check now and what we'll
10:21:35:21 request is they defer their vote until we have the
10:21:38:06 opportunity to have Mr. Miller make a presentation.
10:21:40:09 That would also give Mr. Smith an opportunity to be
10:21:42:22 involved and get up to speed on what the issues are.
10:21:45:18 If we put this on our agenda, the last meeting in
10:21:49:09 January, would that give you enough time, Mr. Smith?
10:21:53:12 >>DAVID SMITH: David Smith, City Attorney.
10:21:55:04 That would give us enough time.
10:21:58:03 I don't know -- obviously, the Aviation Authority is
10:22:01:28 going to do whatever they believe they have to do based
10:22:04:03 on their imperatives.
10:22:05:18 They may or may not wait.
10:22:08:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here again we can always request that

10:22:10:25 they defer their vote until such time that City Council
10:22:14:15 has had an opportunity to meet with Mr. Miller and be
10:22:16:21 informed and the City Attorney has had an opportunity
10:22:19:24 to do that.
10:22:20:21 As well, you do know that the Mayor sits on the
10:22:23:12 Aviation Authority, and she can also make the request
10:22:26:03 that they defer the vote as well.
10:22:28:16 >>DAVID SMITH: Two other bits of information relevant
10:22:30:12 to your consideration, however, is it's a Euclidean
10:22:32:28 district, so it's not a site plan.
10:22:34:24 And according to Gloria Moreda, what they are doing is
10:22:39:22 consistent with the Euclidean district.
10:22:41:00 The other bit of information is noise issues where
10:22:43:01 airports are regulated by the FAA, not the EPC.
10:22:46:27 You give us more time, we'll have more information.
10:22:49:00 About exhausted our knowledge today.
10:22:55:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Their first meeting is January the
10:22:57:12 10th.
10:22:57:24 They'll be voting the 13th on the calendar for the year
10:22:58:27 coming.
10:22:59:12 So their first meeting is January the 10th.
10:23:02:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there a motion?
10:23:06:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do we know, Madam Chair, in fact, that
10:23:09:06 they will take this issue up January 10th?
10:23:11:21 >> No, we don't.

10:23:12:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, they deferred it from their
10:23:14:04 December meeting.
10:23:14:22 I was told that by a member of the Island committee.
10:23:17:25 The question is, would they be willing to put it off
10:23:20:13 again in terms of our timing?
10:23:22:12 And I think before we set our meeting, we should find
10:23:24:19 that out.
10:23:25:09 So I would like to make --
10:23:28:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I was going to make a two-part
10:23:30:22 motion.
10:23:31:04 One that we send a letter to the Executive Director and
10:23:33:18 the Chairman of the Aviation Authority asking them to
10:23:37:03 defer their vote on this issue until such time that our
10:23:41:00 legal counsel have been involved and taken up all the
10:23:45:16 issues relative to that and request that Mr. Miller
10:23:48:09 make a presentation to us in our January meeting.
10:23:53:07 What's the date of the last meeting in January?
10:23:56:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: May I add something to that, Madam
10:23:58:01 Chair, that we request to get the information of
10:24:01:15 whatever year it happened, to bring that forward so we
10:24:06:09 can have those copies available.
10:24:08:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if I may ask --
10:24:15:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It would be the 17th in our second
10:24:17:06 meeting, City Council meeting the 17th.
10:24:19:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

10:24:20:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Of January, Mr. Smith.
10:24:22:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern.
10:24:24:07 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm just wondering if we could ask
10:24:26:15 Mr. Miller if he could come to our first January
10:24:29:04 meeting, because that would be before their vote.
10:24:34:09 It won't be?
10:24:35:07 Okay.
10:24:36:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And we need to give our attorney enough
10:24:38:06 time to meet and look at all the legal issues.
10:24:40:06 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:24:41:10 All in favor of the motion, aye.
10:24:42:21 Opposed, nay.
10:24:43:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just to clarify, did we drop the EPC
10:24:46:09 out of that because David says that's irrelevant?
10:24:52:07 >>DAVID SMITH: Again, David Smith, City Attorney.
10:24:54:04 If that's, in fact, accurate, which I've been led to
10:24:57:00 believe, then the EPC wouldn't have jurisdiction.
10:24:58:18 So you want to have the appropriate agencies here.
10:25:00:09 If EPC does have some jurisdiction, then we'll check
10:25:03:18 with them and make sure we get their input.
10:25:07:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Evidently, Mr. Smith, when the
10:25:09:04 master plan was adopted, one of the components was that
10:25:12:09 noise tests be done and they haven't been done.
10:25:15:19 >>DAVID SMITH: I heard that testimony.
10:25:16:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So I think that might make the EPC's

10:25:19:00 participation relevant in that if that's part of the
10:25:22:19 plan, then it should be part.
10:25:25:13 And the other question I have, I assume before you pour
10:25:28:12 concrete you have to get a city building permit?
10:25:35:06 >>JULIA COLE: Julia Cole, Legal Department.
10:25:37:27 As a general matter, yes.
10:25:39:03 You would have to get a building permit.
10:25:41:03 That's not through the zoning process.
10:25:42:21 That would be a ministerial building permit.
10:25:48:22 However, without going back and researching whether or
10:25:50:15 not because this is a special independent agency --
10:25:52:21 there may be some other jurisdiction there.
10:25:54:03 It's hard for me to just answer that question off the
10:25:55:28 top of my head.
10:25:56:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Right.
10:25:56:24 But the other consideration would be, I know that the
10:25:59:01 administration can change, if you have a change to your
10:26:02:03 plan that's 10%, they can just do it internally.
10:26:04:25 But if this is a plan that we adopted and they are
10:26:09:24 changing it more than 10%, would we get to weigh in?
10:26:13:10 Don't answer now.
10:26:14:03 Just research it.
10:26:14:28 >>DAVID SMITH: The information that the clerk is going
10:26:16:06 to get together may be very helpful in that regard.
10:26:19:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern.

10:26:21:07 >>MARY MULHERN: [microphone not on]
10:26:23:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Turn your mike on.
10:26:26:13 >>MARY MULHERN: When they talked about we got the memos
10:26:28:24 from you about the noise levels, were you looking at
10:26:33:22 our EPC levels for the limits, or were you looking at
10:26:38:18 the FAA guidelines?
10:26:42:27 >>JULIA COLE: UM, without going back and looking at the
10:26:45:09 documents, we wouldn't know if maybe there isn't
10:26:47:09 something to the contrary.
10:26:48:09 I know it's a general matter that the EPC doesn't
10:26:51:00 typically take jurisdiction over issues related to
10:26:53:09 airport noise levels.
10:26:54:09 It's the FAA, or, like, for example, MacDill, it's
10:26:59:12 the department of defense.
10:27:00:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
10:27:01:04 I think my question is probably for you when you talked
10:27:03:04 about some of the e-mails we got talked about the noise
10:27:06:06 levels and how they are --
10:27:10:03 >> On the e-mails that you received, you received
10:27:11:21 really two different things.
10:27:13:09 You received what would be a noise impact, which really
10:27:17:06 has nothing to do with the FAA, but it is -- when they
10:27:21:00 did a single-event noise test, that's the sound level
10:27:24:15 that somebody sitting at a given position, when they
10:27:27:21 did a run-up, basically, revving the engines up, that's

10:27:32:06 what they are going to experience.
10:27:33:24 That doesn't have anything to do with the FAA noise
10:27:36:10 requirements.
10:27:36:21 The FAA noise requirements uses kind of this day-night
10:27:40:18 average and creates this contour plan just like you
10:27:43:27 might have contours with elevations to say, okay, it's
10:27:46:12 going to be -- and it's based on how many planes, what
10:27:48:27 types of planes come in, whether they are during the
10:27:51:21 day.
10:27:52:12 Whether they are at night, and you create this average
10:27:55:15 number.
10:27:55:25 The 65 DB decibels, which is the number that the FAA
10:28:01:00 uses for suitability, that's in their master plan.
10:28:05:10 And that is over an area of residences right now.
10:28:09:10 So my comments were strictly based on their master plan
10:28:15:06 and the FAA numbers.
10:28:16:06 Not any other numbers.
10:28:18:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, thanks.
10:28:19:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Just to be clear on the motion that we
10:28:21:04 want to -- for the Chairman, maybe our attorney can
10:28:25:18 work with the chair drafting that letter, send it to
10:28:28:12 the Chairman of the Aviation Authority and also to the
10:28:30:22 Executive Director, Mr. Louis Miller.
10:28:33:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And the Mayor.
10:28:33:18 Well, all the board members.

10:28:35:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And copy all the board members.
10:28:37:19 >>MARY MULHERN: Could we -- this is probably a separate
10:28:41:00 motion, but could we ask the Aviation Authority or
10:28:44:09 maybe it's the FAA to perform -- that we would like
10:28:49:04 them to perform those sound tests that have never been
10:28:53:15 done?
10:28:54:09 I don't know who the letter should go to --
10:28:56:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Need to get the records, first, and see
10:28:58:09 if it's in there.
10:28:59:19 Let the City Attorney look into it.
10:29:01:12 >>MARY MULHERN: That might have been done.
10:29:03:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Don't know.
10:29:04:15 We have to wait and see.
10:29:06:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, just a clarification on that
10:29:09:01 date.
10:29:09:12 On January 17th, is this discussion -- did the motion
10:29:14:09 include an invitation to Mr. Miller?
10:29:16:15 >> Yes.
10:29:18:13 >> Yes.
10:29:19:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It did.
10:29:19:21 Now, my question to Council then, therefore, normally
10:29:22:09 staff reports and unfinished business is normally set
10:29:24:09 for five minutes.
10:29:25:06 This seems to be an issue of substantial public
10:29:28:27 concern.

10:29:30:06 You're inviting somebody.
10:29:31:10 Would you like it at a time certain, and would you like
10:29:33:28 to allot a certain amount of time so it's clear on your
10:29:36:13 agenda?
10:29:37:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yeah, I think it needs to be a time
10:29:38:24 certain, and I think given what I'm hearing, we may
10:29:41:15 want to allocate about 20 to 30 minutes to this
10:29:44:21 particular item, I would say.
10:29:46:06 That's a lot of time, but it sounds very sensitive
10:29:50:00 matter and issue a lot of concern.
10:29:53:25 Mr. Smith, are you in agreement?
10:29:56:18 Because you will be here to make some presentation on
10:29:59:06 that as well.
10:30:00:01 >>DAVID SMITH: Yes, sir.
10:30:00:13 David Smith, City Attorney.
10:30:01:21 And I will try to get information to you as we discover
10:30:04:00 it.
10:30:04:12 So some of it you'll have ahead of time.
10:30:06:18 If people can stay focused, we can probably keep it to
10:30:12:28 a half hour.
10:30:13:21 We just have to stay on topic.
10:30:17:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We're always focused.
10:30:19:15 >>DAVID SMITH: Sorry, didn't mean an implied slight
10:30:22:00 there.
10:30:22:18 I'm the one sometimes --

10:30:23:25 >>GWEN MILLER: We need a motion that sets the time on
10:30:25:15 it.
10:30:26:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's set it for 11:00 time certain on
10:30:28:00 the 17th.
10:30:28:25 >> Second.
10:30:29:07 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:30:30:04 All in favor of the motion, aye.
10:30:31:22 Opposed, nay.
10:30:32:18 Mr. Shelby.
10:30:34:21 >> [not at microphone]
10:30:37:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is it Council's understanding then, if
10:30:39:00 it's something that the Council will stop at that time
10:30:41:24 and then take it up, the item at 11:00?
10:30:45:09 >> [no audible answer]
10:30:46:28 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a substitute motion for number
10:30:48:19 three.
10:30:50:19 >>MARY MULHERN: [mike is not on]
10:30:56:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We voted on the motion.
10:30:57:12 I was clarifying the motion about where the letter was
10:31:00:04 going.
10:31:00:12 We voted on that, yes, uh-huh, we did.
10:31:02:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Clerk, do you have a substitute motion
10:31:04:04 for number three?
10:31:14:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In regard to item 3, I'll move the
10:31:16:19 following ordinance for first reading, an ordinance

10:31:19:09 authorizing an encroachment of an existing canopy over
10:31:21:19 a portion of the public right-of-way at the corner of
10:31:24:15 Avenida Republica De Cuba, aka North 14th Street, and
10:31:30:21 East 6th Avenue in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough
10:31:32:15 County, as more particularly described herein, subject
10:31:34:10 to certain terms, covenants, conditions and agreements
10:31:36:18 as more particularly described herein.
10:31:39:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:31:40:19 All in favor, aye.
10:31:41:22 Opposed, nay.
10:31:42:19 We now go to our committee reports.
10:31:44:09 Public safety, Reverend Scott.
10:31:46:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Madam Chair.
10:31:46:19 I would like to move item four through ten.
10:31:48:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:31:50:00 All in favor of the motion, aye.
10:31:51:15 Opposed, nay.
10:31:52:12 Parks, recreation, Ms. Linda Saul-Sena.
10:31:55:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
10:31:56:12 I'd like to move resolutions 11 through 17.
10:32:01:03 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:32:02:13 All in favor of the motion, aye.
10:32:03:16 Opposed, nay.
10:32:04:24 Public works, Mr. Charlie Miranda.
10:32:06:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.

10:32:07:24 Move items 18 through 20.
10:32:09:27 >> Second.
10:32:10:03 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:32:11:03 All in favor of the motion, aye.
10:32:12:12 Opposed, nay.
10:32:13:07 Finance, Mr. John Dingfelder.
10:32:15:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
10:32:15:24 I'll move items 21 through 30.
10:32:19:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:32:20:00 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:32:20:27 All in favor of the motion, aye.
10:32:22:07 Opposed, nay.
10:32:23:00 Building and zoning, Mr. Joseph Caetano.
10:32:26:16 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: I would like to move items 31 --
10:32:30:06 [mike not on]
10:32:36:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe item 34 has been --
10:32:39:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Daignault is here to talk about
10:32:41:12 34, I would guess.
10:32:42:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Daignault, number 34.
10:32:46:21 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator of public works and
10:32:49:12 utility services.
10:32:50:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Steve, let me hone in on my
10:32:52:12 question.
10:32:53:00 Mr. Scott might have another one.
10:32:54:24 Or Reverend Scott.

10:32:55:21 But I understood the transaction and the real estate
10:33:00:09 aspect of this.
10:33:01:06 What I wasn't clear on was the -- I understand this is
10:33:05:18 for stormwater purposes.
10:33:06:18 That's the part I'm not familiar with.
10:33:09:01 I understand this is Drew Park?
10:33:19:12 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Yes.
10:33:19:22 Um, to give you some order of reference, that's Lois.
10:33:23:01 To the top of the map is north.
10:33:25:18 Hillsborough is below or to the south of this property.
10:33:30:27 This is all part of the CRA plan and the stormwater
10:33:36:03 plan for Drew Park.
10:33:39:21 We need a large area to have a retention pond to take
10:33:44:19 all of the drainage, all of the water out of Drew Park.
10:33:48:06 And so what we have here, this property is existing
10:33:53:15 city property in the green box.
10:33:57:15 Down here just to the south, we have already acquired
10:34:00:21 and you have approved the purchase of that property.
10:34:03:00 It was not -- did not have any residences on it.
10:34:07:07 It was just vacant land.
10:34:09:09 This piece right in here, which is currently a pond is
10:34:12:00 an F.D.O.T. property.
10:34:13:21 They'll be transferring that to us.
10:34:15:01 So what we're talking about is this last piece over
10:34:17:22 here.

10:34:19:09 There is a house, a residence on it.
10:34:24:00 It has not been occupied for a while.
10:34:26:24 It was an estate-type of property.
10:34:30:06 And, again, this will allow us to assemble all of these
10:34:33:19 properties together.
10:34:34:12 It will also allow us to obtain about a $700,000 grant.
10:34:39:25 It's an FDEP water quality grant to help us with this.
10:34:44:09 Again, this will be the final piece.
10:34:46:00 We will have to come back to Council one more time, as
10:34:49:00 there is a right-of-way down the middle, but we would
10:34:52:21 own property on both sides.
10:34:53:25 That right-of-way would have to be vacated.
10:34:55:24 So, again, we could make this into one retention area.
10:34:58:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Great.
10:34:59:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Reverend Scott, you had a question?
10:35:03:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Steven.
10:35:04:15 And I think this is good.
10:35:06:00 During our CRA discussions, we, you know, I think one
10:35:08:28 of the most important things we're doing in Drew Park
10:35:11:09 is drainage.
10:35:12:09 And they have some severe problems there.
10:35:13:27 The Council is familiar with.
10:35:15:28 I'm glad to hear that we're moving forward with this.
10:35:19:07 I guess we're paying about $400,000 for that acre.
10:35:22:03 The house probably has limited or no value.

10:35:25:22 To speak of.
10:35:26:22 >> Right.
10:35:27:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Anyway, thanks for the
10:35:28:18 clarification.
10:35:29:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Reverend Scott.
10:35:31:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Follow up on two things.
10:35:32:25 One, it is my understanding we do have an appraisal
10:35:35:06 that came in at this point.
10:35:38:03 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Yes, sir.
10:35:38:15 We are paying appraised price.
10:35:40:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Secondly, is this anywhere close to
10:35:43:04 where the Aviation Authority is expanding and
10:35:45:07 purchasing property in the Drew Park?
10:35:47:00 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: No, it's not.
10:35:47:22 It's considerably further away.
10:35:49:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Daignault.
10:35:51:06 Reverend Scott, you want to speak on 50?
10:35:53:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
10:35:54:18 I just want to highlight that.
10:35:55:25 This is when we had our workshop, senator Miller came
10:36:01:24 to talk about leveraging money, putting $500,000 with
10:36:04:28 the housing finance authority.
10:36:06:12 So it would help with subsidy for the affordable
10:36:10:25 housing program.
10:36:11:15 So I just wanted to highlight that, that the

10:36:13:10 administration is following through on that which is
10:36:15:00 very good.
10:36:15:28 Again, for affordable housing.
10:36:17:19 So I want to highlight that.
10:36:22:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That was about $30,000 for 73 homes
10:36:24:12 or something to that effect.
10:36:26:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Did we get a second?
10:36:28:24 >> Second.
10:36:29:09 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:36:30:09 All in favor, aye.
10:36:31:00 Opposed, nay.
10:36:31:27 Transportation, Ms. Mary Mulhern.
10:36:34:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Madam Chair.
10:36:34:27 I move items number 52 through 67.
10:36:38:24 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:36:40:00 All -- question on the motion?
10:36:42:06 Mr. Dingfelder.
10:36:43:06 Shelby.
10:36:46:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Sorry, Council.
10:36:47:01 I've been informed that item 64 is on in error.
10:36:50:15 I would ask that 64 be removed in and struck from the
10:36:53:12 agenda.
10:36:54:00 >>GWEN MILLER: We'll do that --
10:36:55:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Wait, wait, wait.
10:36:56:19 >>GWEN MILLER: We haven't voted yet.

10:37:00:00 >> This issue was brought to my attention this morning.
10:37:02:10 These aren't actually my items, but I did follow up
10:37:04:24 with Susan Robinson.
10:37:05:21 64 and 66 are special event permits for Downtown Live
10:37:09:03 After Five.
10:37:10:06 Number 66 has the correct date of December 14th, and
10:37:14:18 number 64 has an incorrect date of December 12th.
10:37:20:21 The message I received from Ms. Robinson is that number
10:37:22:06 64 with the incorrect date should be removed and
10:37:24:09 they'll receive the special event permit for the
10:37:27:27 correct date on the 14th.
10:37:28:24 >> Strike number 64.
10:37:29:25 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 52 through 67 removing
10:37:33:19 item 64.
10:37:35:10 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:37:36:18 All in favor of the motion, aye.
10:37:39:01 Opposed, nay.
10:37:39:27 Mr. Dingfelder.
10:37:40:27 Resolution.
10:37:42:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move items 68 through 77 setting
10:37:48:24 the public hearings for those variety of dates.
10:37:51:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And Council, again, number 69 has been
10:37:55:15 removed.
10:37:56:06 >>GWEN MILLER: We removed it.
10:37:57:03 We already did that one.

10:37:58:06 We did it earlier.
10:37:59:03 Okay.
10:37:59:15 We have a motion and second.
10:38:00:18 All in favor of the motion, aye.
10:38:02:06 Opposed, nay.
10:38:03:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And one thing I wanted to point out
10:38:05:00 just as a caution, and I noticed this yesterday, if you
10:38:09:06 look at item 71 through 77 in setting these public
10:38:14:03 hearings for the morning meeting on the 17th, which
10:38:16:21 is, I guess, is that the second meeting we come back?
10:38:21:01 That there are two appeal hearings and one, two, three,
10:38:23:16 four, five wet zonings, and I think we added Ms. Yang
10:38:28:03 as well, which is the sixth.
10:38:30:12 So I don't think we have a procedure, process, or
10:38:33:13 limitation on how many wet zonings and appeals we have,
10:38:36:09 but something we might want to think about as we
10:38:39:00 proceed.
10:38:39:12 So I'll just point that out, and we'll see how that
10:38:42:21 goes.
10:38:42:27 Or we can put off some of these.
10:38:48:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think at some point we need to put
10:38:50:09 that on our agenda for discussion in terms of those
10:38:52:19 appeals, because they can be kind of lengthy in the
10:38:56:04 process.
10:38:56:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Also, it's been brought to my

10:38:58:07 attention, Council, that when there are -- sometimes
10:39:02:03 there's been as many as ten wet zoning hearings, it
10:39:04:25 does make for a very long morning, and also, it puts --
10:39:08:01 I've been informed that it also puts strain on police
10:39:10:21 department resources when you have that many on a
10:39:13:12 particular agenda day.
10:39:14:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Cole.
10:39:15:28 >>JULIA COLE: Julia Cole, Legal Department, no to the
10:39:17:18 interrupt the conversation, but I thought it might be
10:39:19:18 important to point out that in February when we change
10:39:22:12 our wet zoning process to a special use permit process,
10:39:25:10 the Land Development Coordination office is going to
10:39:27:21 look to how we incorporate that into our existing
10:39:31:16 processes.
10:39:32:01 We understand the issue, and we're looking as we change
10:39:38:07 over these processes to how we incorporate them.
10:39:40:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So some of these might be delegated
10:39:42:15 to staff and we'll never see them?
10:39:45:24 >>JULIA COLE: Well, what's going to happen is, in terms
10:39:48:21 of the scheduling, that will be going to staff like all
10:39:51:03 of our other special use permits for wet zoning.
10:39:53:15 Some of that will come off your agenda in terms of
10:39:55:22 scheduling the hearing.
10:39:56:22 Really, the second question has become one of, you've
10:40:00:07 typically taken your wet zonings up during the day.

10:40:02:22 You've typically taken your first public hearing on
10:40:04:18 your special use permits in your night hearing so we
10:40:07:16 may have to have a conversation as to whether or not we
10:40:10:00 just incorporate those into your 13 limit and your
10:40:13:22 night meetings, or we create some other process.
10:40:16:10 And that is something that we'll go forward with.
10:40:18:06 And just to point out one other issue while I'm up here
10:40:21:27 and it's really an issue Mr. Grandoff raised related to
10:40:25:03 a second reading on a special use permit, really an
10:40:28:24 appeal, I'm comfortable with that going forward
10:40:31:15 procedurally, it's correct.
10:40:32:27 In fact, one of the reasons I'm comfortable with it
10:40:35:03 going forward is you've typically approved your special
10:40:37:09 use permits as an ordinance.
10:40:39:00 There is actually no legal requirement that you approve
10:40:40:25 it as an ordinance.
10:40:42:06 So what I'm going to talk to Council about when we
10:40:46:00 bring back the wet zonings is whether or not we want to
10:40:48:00 change that to a resolution process still keeping two
10:40:50:15 public hearings, and that way kind of making it a
10:40:53:06 little bit quicker to move through the process because
10:40:55:01 you'll have it approved as a resolution.
10:40:57:00 Because legally, really, it's what it is.
10:40:58:21 You only need an ordinance if you're going to change
10:41:00:25 the zoning map.

10:41:01:18 So some of those process issues we'll be bringing
10:41:05:16 forward to you after we change the wet zoning process
10:41:07:19 into a special use process in February.
10:41:10:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:41:11:01 We now go to our staff reports.
10:41:13:18 Item number 78.
10:41:15:06 Ms. Shirley Foxx-Knowles.
10:41:26:03 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Good morning, Council, Shirley
10:41:28:03 Foxx-Knowles, city clerk.
10:41:30:12 I'm here to talk about item 78 and 79.
10:41:33:21 On item 78, this is an item that had been continued
10:41:40:18 from the October 4th meeting and it's related to
10:41:45:22 historic preservation.
10:41:46:22 The historic preservation commission.
10:41:50:21 We still don't have any applicants for that commission.
10:41:57:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:41:59:00 Mr. Shelby, I believe it was our last meeting, I had
10:42:02:09 asked you to work with the ethics commission to make it
10:42:06:12 less difficult for people to serve on this commission.
10:42:10:12 I wondered if you had made any progress yet.
10:42:13:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, I've had an opportunity to speak
10:42:16:00 with Marcy Hamilton, who is the assistant City Attorney
10:42:18:09 who is the liaison to the ethics commission.
10:42:20:04 She has informed me that they are not meeting in
10:42:22:10 December.

10:42:22:18 They are meeting in January.
10:42:24:00 I will work to get on the agenda for January and
10:42:27:04 discuss this item with them.
10:42:29:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And please share how frustrating it
10:42:30:21 is for us not to be able to fill the position.
10:42:34:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I will.
10:42:35:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:42:37:12 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: We will continue to advertise
10:42:38:21 also.
10:42:39:03 Moving on to item 79.
10:42:44:09 Council, we have three applicants for the historic -- I
10:42:49:07 mean, excuse me, the Hillsborough County City Council
10:42:53:03 Planning Commission.
10:42:53:21 They include Laura Buford, Robert Henriquez and Melanie
10:43:02:06 Higgins.
10:43:03:03 We had one applicant to withdraw.
10:43:04:21 If you want to, you can have interviews.
10:43:12:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Are they here?
10:43:15:16 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: We'll ask Laura Buford if she's
10:43:17:15 in the audience --
10:43:21:01 >> Jill.
10:43:22:00 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Laura Jill Buford.
10:43:23:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: AKA.
10:43:25:07 >> Good morning, Council.
10:43:26:06 It's good to see you all again.

10:43:27:28 My name is Jill Buford for the record.
10:43:30:12 No confusion there.
10:43:34:03 A lot of quality-of-life issues going on today.
10:43:39:12 You've heard Drew Park talking about a stormwater
10:43:40:19 issue, and Davis Island certainly has some problems
10:43:42:07 with the expansion of the airport.
10:43:44:00 On my application, I talk about my three terms as
10:43:47:25 president at the Civic Association at Port Tampa.
10:43:51:28 For those of you new to Council or in the room that may
10:43:54:22 not know where Port Tampa is, we are located at the tip
10:43:57:21 of the interbay peninsula.
10:43:59:09 We are the southernmost neighborhood in the City of
10:44:03:00 Tampa.
10:44:03:09 We are also one of the oldest communities in the city.
10:44:08:06 We were founded by Henry Plant in 1888.
10:44:10:21 I'm very proud of that.
10:44:12:00 When you look at the city seal, I hope you will think
10:44:15:06 of us down in Port Tampa, because the mascot is -- that
10:44:18:00 is where the mascot docked is in Port Tampa.
10:44:21:09 The reason I bring all this up is because pride is very
10:44:24:16 important to a community.
10:44:26:00 It is an asset that can be brought forward.
10:44:28:21 It may be the only asset a community has to hold on to.
10:44:32:22 And it connects you to a big -- the bigger picture of
10:44:36:06 the city's flavorful historic past.

10:44:40:18 I'll give you an example.
10:44:42:06 You may not know much about Port Tampa, but I wanted to
10:44:45:06 let you know that we are the port for the immigration
10:44:48:12 of thousands of immigrants to Ybor City.
10:44:51:15 It is the reason Ybor City flourished, and we brought
10:44:56:03 them.
10:44:56:15 It is also the embarkation point for 16,000 soldiers
10:45:02:16 leaving in the Spanish-American war.
10:45:05:00 We are a vital part of the city's history.
10:45:07:15 I'd like to go on a little bit and talk about being a
10:45:12:19 part of the city.
10:45:13:18 I think it's very important to protect our historic
10:45:15:21 assets.
10:45:16:18 It's also because it protects our cultural assets. If
10:45:19:09 we don't protect those, then the sustainability of our
10:45:22:00 city, it really doesn't matter what we do with the
10:45:24:10 infrastructure if our people are not happy, and the
10:45:27:15 quality of life is not there.
10:45:28:06 Port Tampa is divided by the industrial port.
10:45:34:12 As you know, jet fuel runs through to TIA. We're a
10:45:36:22 robust port, and we also sit right next to Picnic
10:45:41:13 Island Park, one of the most beautiful parks in the
10:45:45:00 City of Tampa.
10:45:45:12 And I would like to invite you all right now to go out
10:45:48:06 to picnic island and visit the new observation deck.

10:45:51:21 You would be amazed at how beautiful Tampa Bay is while
10:45:56:10 you're sitting in city limits.
10:45:58:09 We have beautiful parks there.
10:45:59:12 Part of my tenure as the Civic Association president
10:46:03:07 was to work with the Hillsborough Greenways Committee.
10:46:06:13 Tampa did not have a committee at that time.
10:46:08:15 So we went to the Hillsborough Greenways Committee and
10:46:10:19 worked to preserve over a thousand acres of wetlands
10:46:13:24 surrounding Picnic Island and Port Tampa.
10:46:16:00 This is not only an environmental issue for us, it is a
10:46:20:10 protection of hurricane surge, water surge in the event
10:46:25:24 of a hurricane.
10:46:27:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Jill, before you run out of time,
10:46:30:00 can you tell us what you see as your role on the
10:46:32:25 Planning Commission if we appoint you, and what kind of
10:46:36:24 goals and motives you have over at the Planning
10:46:38:16 Commission?
10:46:39:16 >> My motives, my goals and my motives are to bring the
10:46:42:25 community to the Planning Commission.
10:46:44:16 I am not just a -- I'm not focused solely on
10:46:48:27 environmental.
10:46:49:12 I am not focused solely on development.
10:46:51:27 I am focused on bringing sustainability and the quality
10:46:55:18 of life that we need in our city.
10:46:57:12 We are working toward that, I believe -- I believe we

10:47:00:27 have been working toward that with green policies and
10:47:03:09 looking into a better transit plan, transit is so
10:47:07:00 important to the mobility of our city.
10:47:09:27 [buzzer]
10:47:11:21 That's what I want to do.
10:47:12:21 I want to infuse those good quality green -- good,
10:47:16:07 quality, sustainable living into our city.
10:47:19:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:47:21:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sorry for the interruption.
10:47:22:24 >> That's okay.
10:47:24:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Madam Chair, I believe, Jill, you
10:47:25:15 know I believe, Mr. Rollins was your first
10:47:29:12 representative when that part of the city became part
10:47:34:09 of Tampa, am I correct?
10:47:37:12 >> Yes, sir, you are correct.
10:47:39:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Your jail and City Hall was right
10:47:41:07 next to each other and the bank is now a museum.
10:47:43:15 >> The bank is now a library.
10:47:45:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Library I mean.
10:47:46:18 >> But please come down and visit the library, because
10:47:48:21 we have great history --
10:47:50:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Oh, I've been there.
10:47:52:00 >> It's a beautiful building.
10:47:53:03 And yes, you are right.
10:47:54:03 The jail -- the jail and the fire station are still

10:47:57:27 there.
10:47:58:07 And Mr. Rollins was the Mayor of the city of Port Tampa
10:48:02:18 when Port Tampa City was annexed in 1961.
10:48:05:06 And if you have any other questions --
10:48:08:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Caetano remembers that.
10:48:11:01 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Yeah.
10:48:11:27 I was there for the dedication.
10:48:13:12 [ LAUGHTER ]
10:48:18:10 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Thank you, Ms. Buford.
10:48:20:06 Mr. Bob Henriquez sent us a note saying that he may not
10:48:23:27 be able to attend because of a conflict, and I don't
10:48:27:06 see him.
10:48:27:24 The next candidate is Ms. Melanie Higgins.
10:48:41:03 >> Hi, you-all.
10:48:42:16 Normally I kind of speak extemporaneously, but I have
10:48:46:27 something written so I wouldn't forget anything.
10:48:48:24 My name is Melanie Higgins.
10:48:51:06 2916 West Pearl Avenue in south Tampa.
10:48:53:21 I work at 735 Lakeview Drive in Wimauma, Florida.
10:48:57:18 That's in southeast Hillsborough County, in case any of
10:49:00:00 you don't know about that.
10:49:01:09 We're on the east side of 301 from Sun City Center.
10:49:04:25 So I drive that corridor every day.
10:49:06:25 In the past, I've been employed in the real estate
10:49:10:07 development business in another state in California

10:49:12:21 before I moved here.
10:49:13:16 Since moving to Florida 14 years ago, I've been active
10:49:16:25 in civic affairs in the City of Tampa and Hillsborough
10:49:18:15 County.
10:49:18:25 I served on the committee of 99.
10:49:23:09 I'm sure you all remember that.
10:49:24:16 The City of Tampa greenways citizen advisory committee,
10:49:28:15 Tampa Audubon society Board of Directors, City of Tampa
10:49:31:13 tree and landscape code, citizens advisory committee.
10:49:34:21 And I'm currently the chair of the variance review
10:49:37:15 board.
10:49:37:27 I was president of the Ballast Point Neighborhood
10:49:40:27 Association for several years and assisted in the
10:49:44:24 formulation of the Ballast Point neighborhood plan, one
10:49:47:12 of the first to be approved by City Council.
10:49:49:00 I recently attended the Planning Commission citizens
10:49:52:21 planning academy.
10:49:53:18 This two-day workshop is offered and presented by the
10:49:55:21 center for building better communities, department of
10:49:57:27 urban and regional planning, University of Florida with
10:50:00:09 the intention of preparing citizens for positions on
10:50:04:06 planning boards and commissions.
10:50:05:09 The Planning Commission is a state-mandated local
10:50:10:03 planning agency.
10:50:11:06 This local planning agency shall prepare the

10:50:14:18 comprehensive plan or plan amendment after hearings to
10:50:16:24 be held after public notice and shall make
10:50:20:01 recommendations to the governing body regarding the
10:50:22:15 adoption or amendment of the plan.
10:50:24:00 The planning commissioner's first responsibility is to
10:50:28:09 recommend a comprehensive plan that reflects the vision
10:50:31:27 and the values of the community.
10:50:33:15 And then to move the plan from vision to reality.
10:50:35:22 The planning process exists to serve the public
10:50:39:12 interest.
10:50:39:27 I believe that the individual appointed to this
10:50:43:12 position should be a knowledgeable person with her own
10:50:47:00 independent views who will serve in the best interest
10:50:49:21 of the natural and built environment and the public at
10:50:52:18 large.
10:50:52:28 The ideal applicant should have no political ambitions,
10:50:57:00 no alliances to industries for whom decisions would
10:51:00:28 have a direct monetary gain and who would be dedicated
10:51:03:19 to implementing the comprehensive plan in the manner it
10:51:05:25 was originally intended.
10:51:07:03 I think you all know me to be an honest and sincere
10:51:10:06 individual who considers every aspect of an issue very
10:51:13:18 carefully before making a decision.
10:51:15:09 I will not take this position lightly, and I'm
10:51:18:04 available to attend all meetings without conflict.

10:51:21:06 Thank you.
10:51:22:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:51:27:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Vote and record.
10:51:30:21 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Thank you, Ms. Higgins given
10:51:33:15 you a ballot.
10:51:35:09 If you can mark your ballot, sign it, and I will tally
10:51:38:16 the vote.
10:51:39:01 I also wanted to remind you that this position is for a
10:51:42:19 four-year term.
10:51:45:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:51:46:18 I have a question.
10:51:49:06 Is the position that we didn't have any applicants for
10:51:52:19 above -- the Historic Preservation Commission, does
10:51:58:09 that require any particular professional expertise?
10:52:05:27 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: It's an alternate position.
10:52:07:04 And they would need to have some interest in historic
10:52:11:21 preservation, et cetera.
10:52:13:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
10:52:13:10 The reason I'm asking is specifically this.
10:52:14:25 Both people who came up and spoke this morning are
10:52:19:06 fabulously qualified.
10:52:20:19 They are completely committed to this community.
10:52:23:21 And this is an extremely difficult decision.
10:52:25:22 So I'm hopeful that whoever doesn't get it, perhaps
10:52:29:06 considers applying for the historic preservation

10:52:31:07 commission, because we need sharp community-oriented
10:52:35:15 people to serve in that capacity also.
10:52:37:00 That's just a little plug for the HPC and an
10:52:40:12 explanation of how difficult this decision is.
10:52:42:06 Thank you.
10:52:43:03 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Thank you.
10:52:43:13 Council, if you want to move on while I tally.
10:52:46:15 >>GWEN MILLER: We'll move on while you count the
10:52:48:15 ballots.
10:52:48:25 We'll go to item 80, Mark Huey, is he here?
10:52:52:15 We need to receive and file the memo.
10:52:55:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
10:52:55:22 >> Second.
10:52:56:04 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:52:57:07 All in favor of the motion, aye.
10:52:59:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman, I would like to say
10:53:02:04 something on that.
10:53:02:24 The Federal Courthouse is one of our greatest public
10:53:07:09 buildings, and I'm really excited about the proposal to
10:53:10:15 work with the local chapter of the American Institute
10:53:13:28 of Architects, and I hope that something good comes of
10:53:17:07 this.
10:53:17:28 Their concept, which is to make this a center for urban
10:53:22:15 issues is really very dynamic.
10:53:24:22 They would like to put the Downtown Partnership in

10:53:27:09 there, the Arts Council, other organizations, and have
10:53:31:16 a -- and have the building used by the public actively,
10:53:35:27 all they need is the money, and I think they are
10:53:38:15 working on that right now.
10:53:39:18 So I thank Mr. Huey for moving this along, and I hope
10:53:43:13 this comes into being.
10:53:45:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 81, we need to move the
10:53:47:19 resolution.
10:53:47:27 I have a motion and second to move the resolution.
10:53:50:00 All in favor, aye.
10:53:51:00 Opposed, nay.
10:53:52:10 Number 82.
10:53:56:15 >> Dave Vaughn, Director of Contract Administration.
10:53:59:00 I want to give you a brief update on activities going
10:54:01:12 on at Kiley Garden.
10:54:04:06 When I was last before you, we approved an agreement
10:54:06:19 that included a pilot project to do test excavations
10:54:10:01 and began to finalize and develop repair techniques.
10:54:13:07 If you've been to the site recently, you'll see that,
10:54:15:25 in fact, a selected number of cells have been
10:54:19:00 excavated.
10:54:20:00 They were chosen specifically to uncover some of the
10:54:22:27 different kinds of conditions that we know are there.
10:54:26:15 The good news is to date, the condition of the concrete
10:54:31:16 below the coating is at least as good as we expected

10:54:35:12 and in most cases better.
10:54:37:03 So we are still on track for developing repair methods
10:54:40:21 that will allow ultimately restoration of the garden to
10:54:45:21 whatever extent funding and our abilities allow.
10:54:49:00 Any questions?
10:54:49:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions?
10:54:50:18 Ms. Saul-Sena.
10:54:51:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:54:52:15 We had discussed the ways to be able to get vertical
10:54:57:03 elements and flowering trees in where the roots don't
10:55:00:18 negatively impact the structure.
10:55:02:21 I know you're working with a consultant to see if
10:55:04:09 there's some kind of liner or pot or something that can
10:55:09:18 be put in the squares that will allow the trees.
10:55:12:00 How is that coming along?
10:55:13:10 >> We're looking at a variety of solutions from the
10:55:15:13 coatings itself to separate root barriers to linings.
10:55:20:21 We're examining all of those to come up with the best
10:55:23:21 approach.
10:55:24:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: When -- if you were to come back in
10:55:26:15 February or March, when do you think you'd have some
10:55:28:24 more information for us?
10:55:29:24 >> We expect to come back early in '08 with a contract
10:55:37:04 amendment to Skanska for the repair of the
10:55:38:28 waterproofing and concrete.

10:55:40:18 At that point, the specific materials and the
10:55:42:13 techniques that we would be using would be --
10:55:44:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I know that contracts usually appear
10:55:46:27 just as an item in the consent agenda.
10:55:53:18 When you come back with that, could you bring it under
10:55:55:21 a staff report and share with us what approach you're
10:55:58:12 taking and how you're going to address this?
10:56:01:07 >> Certainly.
10:56:02:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That would be great.
10:56:02:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Shirley Foxx-Knowles.
10:56:04:24 Thank you, Mr. Vaughn.
10:56:08:15 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Shirley Foxx-Knowles, City
10:56:10:15 Clerk.
10:56:12:00 Council, the person receiving the most votes for the
10:56:17:06 Hillsborough County City Council -- City-County
10:56:20:13 Planning Commission is Ms. Jill Buford.
10:56:26:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Congratulations, Ms. Buford.
10:56:28:16 Mr. Dingfelder.
10:56:30:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
10:56:31:06 I want to reiterate what Ms. Saul-Sena said.
10:56:34:21 With three, actually, four excellent applicants,
10:56:37:12 including Ms. Locket, Mr. Henriquez, Representative Bob
10:56:41:01 Henriquez, a great guy and a great asset to our
10:56:44:07 community, Ms. Higgins has done fantastic work with
10:56:47:03 Ballast Point, and we congratulate Ms. Buford who will

10:56:50:21 do a wonderful job for us on the Planning Commission.
10:56:54:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Just a caution to legal.
10:56:55:18 I know this issue came up before and we got into this
10:56:58:01 whole issue about resolution and all this now.
10:57:01:00 I want to make sure we're clear on this.
10:57:03:06 So I need somebody to address that.
10:57:05:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry.
10:57:06:09 I was just distracted for just a minute.
10:57:11:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We had this discussion, and it became a
10:57:14:24 very technical issue.
10:57:17:21 Official now or official when we vote on the
10:57:19:12 resolution?
10:57:20:00 When is it official?
10:57:21:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The resolution for?
10:57:24:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: For Buford.
10:57:25:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That will be drafted.
10:57:27:09 The effect is immediately, but to solve that issue, the
10:57:31:13 resolution will be prepared today.
10:57:35:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And brought back to us before the
10:57:37:16 end of the meeting?
10:57:39:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I would hope so.
10:57:40:12 I'll see if we can have that taken care of.
10:57:42:25 The plan is to have it.
10:57:44:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to thank all the applicants.
10:57:45:25 Like to echo what my City Council member said about

10:57:48:06 four very highly qualified individuals.
10:57:50:18 There really were no losers here.
10:57:55:15 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to follow up, and I want to
10:57:57:15 congratulate Jill and also say this earlier when we
10:58:03:03 made more appointments to the Planning Commission, we
10:58:05:22 had an incredible list of really qualified, dedicated
10:58:09:01 people.
10:58:09:13 And we're really lucky to have all of them.
10:58:12:15 It was really difficult to just give it to one.
10:58:14:15 So I hope people will continue to volunteer and we'll
10:58:19:12 hopefully, eventually get to have all these good people
10:58:21:18 to work for us.
10:58:25:22 >> I just wanted to thank you all for appointing me and
10:58:28:15 I'll do my best to serve you as well as I possibly can
10:58:31:21 to bring the community voice forward and to protect our
10:58:35:04 beautiful city.
10:58:35:22 Thank you.
10:58:38:04 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm not finished.
10:58:39:07 I did have a question, and this is sort of relating to
10:58:43:00 these appointments that we make.
10:58:44:10 Mr. Shelby, since you were talking about you're going
10:58:46:24 to be bringing -- getting on the agenda with the ethics
10:58:52:10 commission regarding -- what was that regarding?
10:58:55:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's my intention to ask them with
10:58:56:27 regard to their interpretation of the code regarding

10:58:59:10 the problem that people have when they are serving
10:59:03:16 in -- on a board, but they are a member of the
10:59:07:06 profession.
10:59:08:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
10:59:08:21 I think sort of related to that, and we ran into this
10:59:12:07 question earlier, is if we make an appointment and
10:59:19:00 later may decide that there's a conflict or the
10:59:23:21 appointment was not necessarily made appropriately, is
10:59:28:07 there any remedy for us to --
10:59:35:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: My recollection is there is no
10:59:36:24 specific provision within the code now that allows for
10:59:39:27 such a procedure for removal within the code as an
10:59:43:22 ordinance.
10:59:44:00 And there's nothing within Council's rules that address
10:59:48:24 that issue now.
10:59:50:21 >>MARY MULHERN: Is that something that would be worth
10:59:52:03 looking at.
10:59:53:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you ask me to take a look at it.
10:59:55:03 >>MARY MULHERN: And maybe other.
10:59:56:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And other --
10:59:58:00 >>MARY MULHERN: St. Pete and Sarasota.
10:59:58:24 See what they are doing.
10:59:59:24 See what the county does.
11:00:05:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you would like me to come back,
11:00:06:19 I'll take a look at that and prepare a report.

11:00:09:15 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to move that you come back
11:00:11:00 with a report on that.
11:00:12:00 Two weeks?
11:00:13:06 A month?
11:00:15:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Can we make it the second meeting in
11:00:17:21 January.
11:00:18:19 Is that possible?
11:00:19:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Second meeting in January.
11:00:20:22 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:00:21:27 All in favor of the motion, aye.
11:00:23:04 Opposed, nay.
11:00:24:07 Mr. Daignault, 83.
11:00:28:13 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Good morning, Council.
11:00:29:16 Steve Daignault, administrator of public works and
11:00:31:16 utility services.
11:00:32:06 I appreciate this opportunity to talk about our
11:00:35:01 reclaimed water system.
11:00:41:00 The expanded use of reclaim and getting people off of
11:00:44:06 potable especially for irrigation and other purposes is
11:00:46:15 probably one of the most important things we could do
11:00:48:15 for our city.
11:00:49:21 Again, we want you to know we take this task very
11:00:52:13 seriously.
11:00:52:24 I have a small or short presentation here, and I would
11:00:57:06 like to see if we can get that up on the screen.

11:00:59:09 First of all, again, our main focus is that we want to
11:01:06:28 get people off of potable wherever we possibly can.
11:01:10:00 We want to maximize the use of reclaimed and not just
11:01:13:12 the maximize the use of the reclaim, but also to try to
11:01:17:01 eliminate the discharge or as much of the discharge as
11:01:20:00 we possibly can.
11:01:21:00 That's part of our goal.
11:01:22:10 Currently, and again, we appreciate the Council's
11:01:28:03 support in approving the five-year rate structure
11:01:31:18 included at that time, you also approved a reduction in
11:01:35:04 the reclaimed rate.
11:01:36:12 And we think that that's been very, very helpful.
11:01:39:21 Other incentives and enticements that we've done to try
11:01:42:01 to get folks into the reclaimed system is or are that
11:01:46:21 we've implemented an online permitting process.
11:01:49:18 We revamped the Web site and we've done enhanced
11:01:52:27 outreach.
11:01:53:19 We had direct mails to current and potential customers
11:01:57:09 advising them of the reduced rate.
11:01:59:07 And that has been very helpful.
11:02:01:03 You'll see that in a minute.
11:02:02:15 We've had -- we have a program on CTTV.
11:02:06:15 We've used the media.
11:02:08:00 We've gone through the various department and city
11:02:11:19 newsletters and we worked with the various homeowner

11:02:14:04 associations and we'll continue to do that outreach to
11:02:17:24 try to get folks hooked up onto the system, the current
11:02:21:27 system.
11:02:22:09 Just for your information, when we initially put the
11:02:27:24 system together, there were 500 -- or excuse me --
11:02:31:06 5,381 folks who signed up and said, yes, we want to be
11:02:35:24 hooked up. That hasn't totally come about yet.
11:02:38:18 In November of '06, we had about 2,224 folks hooked up,
11:02:43:10 but since that time and, again, you know that we've
11:02:46:03 been in a drought situation and had a reduction on our
11:02:49:12 watering, we've had about 633 people sign up or
11:02:54:04 residences sign up.
11:02:55:00 And that's about 53 a month.
11:02:56:27 So, again, that's a good thing, we think.
11:02:59:06 And we're hopeful that those lower rates are enticing
11:03:02:07 them to do that.
11:03:03:10 The more folks we can get, again, off potable and on
11:03:07:22 reclaimed the better.
11:03:08:18 Just for your information, the revenue that we receive
11:03:10:15 from reclaimed is a little over a million dollars.
11:03:12:10 What we're trying to do now in this expansion effort is
11:03:21:24 to identify the large users, and I'm going to move
11:03:24:01 ahead in just a minute here.
11:03:25:24 This is not the greatest of pictures, but there are
11:03:29:09 four different areas up there.

11:03:30:27 An A, B, C, D area.
11:03:33:22 A is around the Tampa International Airport.
11:03:35:10 B is over by Raymond James.
11:03:40:15 C is in the area of University of Tampa and just west
11:03:44:06 of downtown, and then D is over there in Port Sutton.
11:03:47:04 In those areas, we've looked for large users.
11:03:49:22 We first canvassed our whole city and said where are
11:03:53:04 the large users?
11:03:54:25 Who uses a lot of water?
11:03:56:13 In each of these areas we identified high users, and
11:03:58:28 we're trying to work with them to get them off of
11:04:01:09 potable wherever we can and onto reclaimed.
11:04:04:00 We want to fully utilize our existing system so where
11:04:09:01 we can expand or extend just from that existing system,
11:04:12:24 we want to take advantage of that opportunity as well.
11:04:16:24 And then we want to provide potential new customers
11:04:20:13 that might be in between those dots.
11:04:22:27 In other words, if we went from our current system out
11:04:24:22 to TIA, after we do that, we want to see who we pass
11:04:29:03 along the way and who else can we collect in there.
11:04:32:00 An example of that is Ron Rotella from Westshore
11:04:35:12 alliance has contacted us and said, we're doing the
11:04:39:15 affordable housing project, if you could connect, if we
11:04:41:27 can figure out a way in an agreement for you to connect
11:04:44:24 over to the affordable housing area, there are other

11:04:47:00 potential customers along the way.
11:04:49:00 If we got together and came to you, would that be
11:04:52:01 beneficial, and it would be.
11:04:53:09 So, again, we're pursuing agreements along those lines.
11:04:57:24 Each one of those agreements would be coming back to
11:05:00:09 Council for approval.
11:05:01:12 Currently, as I said, we're developing those
11:05:10:13 agreements.
11:05:10:28 We've got a lot of issues that we have to work through
11:05:13:06 still, and we are working through those issues.
11:05:17:00 As an example, if someone is willing to pay for 50% of
11:05:20:06 the pipeline, what does that mean?
11:05:22:12 How much lower should their rate be and for how long?
11:05:25:15 So we're trying to sort through that and come up with
11:05:27:25 some kind of a standard gauge, notionally, what we are
11:05:33:15 thinking is their rate may be very low for the first
11:05:36:22 five years and then a little higher the second five
11:05:39:03 years and then the last ten years, at a little bit
11:05:42:18 higher and then after 20 years, they would go back to
11:05:46:03 paying what everyone else is doing.
11:05:47:21 Again, that's notional at this time.
11:05:50:04 But those are the kinds of issues that we're trying to
11:05:52:18 resolve as we're dealing with these various large
11:05:55:16 users.
11:05:55:28 On negotiations and discussions are underway with TIA,

11:06:00:03 TECO, and Hillsborough County in this regard.
11:06:04:03 [buzzer]
11:06:05:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead, continue.
11:06:07:12 >> Additionally, we're trying to -- we're having our
11:06:10:27 consultants start looking at the design for putting
11:06:14:27 reclaimed all along Bayshore.
11:06:17:06 We actually cross Bayshore and we use potable water for
11:06:20:07 irrigation.
11:06:20:22 So, again, we're looking -- that's a high-return item.
11:06:24:24 We would like to get that done soon.
11:06:26:19 Additionally, and we will do this as we do the design
11:06:30:09 for the new waterfront park, we want to use reclaimed
11:06:33:21 in the park and along the Riverwalk.
11:06:35:27 So figuring out a design way to get through that
11:06:39:03 University of Tampa, that C area on that map and across
11:06:43:03 the river and over to the park is another high-interest
11:06:47:12 item for us.
11:06:48:04 We'd like to have that there by the time the park is
11:06:50:12 ready to come online.
11:06:52:06 So anyway, that's kind of where we are at the moment.
11:06:56:18 Our next steps include continuing to outreach to those
11:07:02:03 folks who have reclaim in their neighborhoods, and
11:07:05:06 we're trying to still entice them to hook up.
11:07:07:27 We want to continue negotiations with these big users
11:07:10:18 and look for opportunities along the way.

11:07:12:24 We're going to proceed with a technical manual for the
11:07:15:12 reclaimed system, and then proceed with the design,
11:07:18:13 again, with the TIA Port Sutton, Bayshore, University
11:07:21:06 of Tampa Riverwalk park project in those areas.
11:07:24:21 So with that, I'll answer any questions you have.
11:07:28:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
11:07:29:24 Thank you for your fine presentation and the work that
11:07:31:16 you and your staff has taken to put this together.
11:07:35:06 The facts are that you're right in a lot of areas.
11:07:37:27 I'm not opposed to lower rates in the beginning and
11:07:41:16 escalating as they materialize.
11:07:44:18 What I like to see in there is that if we do something
11:07:47:09 of that nature, that they must take a certain amount of
11:07:50:15 reclaim, not two gallons a month.
11:07:52:06 You'll never get your money back then.
11:07:54:03 This is the -- reclaim is a by-product of every citizen
11:07:58:13 that has a house in the City of Tampa.
11:08:00:18 And since you're going into those areas that are very
11:08:03:15 close to residential, you mention one on spruce and
11:08:07:13 Lois, there's a lot of residents there.
11:08:09:12 I'm not saying to start digging streets and putting
11:08:11:27 down reclaimed lines.
11:08:13:03 I'm saying that before we do that, I think we ought to
11:08:15:25 put -- and we learn from the past.
11:08:18:06 Three Council members in the past that very diligently

11:08:21:15 worked to get the first reclaimed system going in the
11:08:24:06 City of Tampa.
11:08:24:18 I firmly believe that we should canvass those areas,
11:08:29:10 tell the people what it will cost, the amount to get a
11:08:31:25 meter in and so forth.
11:08:32:25 Once we meet the level that we can put the lines in, I
11:08:36:21 certainly feel that the residents of the City of Tampa
11:08:38:18 should have their first opportunity to have reclaim in
11:08:42:24 their homes.
11:08:43:27 Because it is their product, not mine.
11:08:47:09 And I feel confident that they will sign not only in
11:08:50:21 the areas that you just mentioned, but throughout the
11:08:52:21 City of Tampa.
11:08:53:25 I know this was shown to us in the beginning that the
11:08:58:15 high users should have first.
11:09:01:03 Certainly that makes sense and certainly it makes sense
11:09:03:15 for you to say that the large users in this area, five,
11:09:06:03 or six or seven of those large institution including
11:09:08:19 Rocky Point Golf Course, the TIA Airport, Westshore
11:09:12:25 Mall, International Mall, and things of that nature
11:09:16:15 should have the opportunity to sign up.
11:09:18:24 What I like to see in those contracts is that they sign
11:09:21:12 up for a certain amount of gallons based on what they
11:09:24:00 are using now to do their outside.
11:09:28:18 Usually that runs about 45% of the total water bill.

11:09:31:03 And I may be a percent or two off.
11:09:33:28 But I believe that the citizens should have the same
11:09:36:24 equal opportunity if there's enough signed in that
11:09:40:12 neighborhood or surrounding area or section of the city
11:09:43:16 that they are also willing and able to receive the
11:09:47:21 reclaimed water, because it's their product, not mine.
11:09:51:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Steve, can you jump back a few
11:09:53:19 slides to the map?
11:09:54:12 It's on ours.
11:09:59:27 Okay.
11:10:07:00 Couple of questions.
11:10:07:22 Number one, we always start off with this 5381 number,
11:10:12:22 which are the folks who indicated an interest.
11:10:15:00 But I think the real crucial number is how many homes,
11:10:18:09 how many residences does star one go past?
11:10:23:15 In other words, what is the total potential, the top
11:10:27:07 potential number for sign-ups?
11:10:31:16 Because, you know, 5381, you know, a quarter of those
11:10:37:06 folks have moved to who knows where, and they don't
11:10:39:24 even live in those houses anymore.
11:10:41:06 The new residents might, and maybe they want to be
11:10:43:27 there.
11:10:44:07 Brad, do you have a sense of that?
11:10:46:10 >> I think it's between eight and nine thousand.
11:10:48:19 >> That's correct.

11:10:50:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So I think we need to be looking at
11:10:51:21 that number.
11:10:52:06 The other number makes it look like we're doing a lot
11:10:55:25 better than we are in terms of sign-up.
11:10:58:10 >> We think we're doing better than we were.
11:11:00:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We're doing better than we were,
11:11:01:18 Steve.
11:11:01:28 And I appreciate that.
11:11:03:09 Brad, I appreciate you and your staff and everybody who
11:11:05:15 is working hard to get 53 folks and families to sign up
11:11:09:00 every month.
11:11:09:21 But we have to look at that bigger number, and we have
11:11:14:06 to -- we have to -- I mean, the Mayor is very big on
11:11:18:27 goals and objectives, and you guys go off on retreats
11:11:21:27 and talk about what your goals and objectives are for
11:11:24:00 the next year.
11:11:25:04 I want to know what our goals and objectives are for
11:11:27:15 this program in terms of sign-up?
11:11:29:18 >> Didn't I list them?
11:11:30:13 I thought that's -- in terms of sign-up, I see what
11:11:33:16 you're saying. We want them all hooked up.
11:11:39:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Of course, we do.
11:11:41:09 I think we need to establish what our goals are for
11:11:43:13 '08.
11:11:44:03 Then at the end of the '08, did we reach those goals?

11:11:46:28 And if we didn't reach the goals -- because if you look
11:11:48:18 on the agenda, the other part of the agenda item, which
11:11:51:12 I'm sure Mr. Smith is here to talk about is the
11:11:54:06 possibility that we would mandate that those -- at some
11:11:56:16 point in the future, that if we don't start hitting
11:11:59:00 those goals and getting up closer to 5,000, 6,000,
11:12:03:27 7,000 families on the system, then we might need to
11:12:06:25 mandate that the homes that we go in front of sign up.
11:12:11:21 And not be allowed to use potable water for watering
11:12:16:12 their yards.
11:12:18:09 And the gentleman, Chip, was in front of the podium
11:12:20:27 urging us to do that today.
11:12:22:21 Premature to do it today, but if we don't start, you
11:12:25:21 know, getting closer to that 9,000 number in future
11:12:28:24 years, I think it's something we need to look to.
11:12:31:00 So the next time we talk about this, I think this is --
11:12:35:03 right now, I think we're calling this a quarterly
11:12:37:06 update, I'd like for the department to have realistic
11:12:40:25 goals of where we're going to be in future years on
11:12:43:09 sign-up.
11:12:43:27 That's number one.
11:12:44:21 Number two is, looking at the map, the purple area in
11:12:49:04 south Tampa approaching Gandy is called proposed
11:12:54:09 residential expansion.
11:12:56:15 We used to call it star two.

11:12:58:10 I didn't hear any discussion on that today.
11:13:00:06 I think that we've sort of taken that off the table.
11:13:04:21 >> It's still there, but, again, you know, we want to
11:13:07:21 get as much potable -- people off potable and on to
11:13:11:21 reclaimed as quickly as we possibly can.
11:13:13:24 And we think that the large users give us the best
11:13:17:15 opportunity to do that.
11:13:19:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Biggest bang for the buck, right,
11:13:21:15 Steve?
11:13:22:21 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: That's correct.
11:13:23:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And plus, they can contribute
11:13:25:07 capital funds to that.
11:13:26:25 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Exactly.
11:13:27:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Which I think is important.
11:13:28:10 I just want to make sure that anybody who is watching
11:13:30:21 this doesn't see proposed residential expansion and
11:13:33:12 thinking it's coming anytime soon.
11:13:35:10 We've sort of taken that off the table at least
11:13:38:06 temporarily.
11:13:38:28 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: It's further down the list than
11:13:40:09 the --
11:13:41:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The last question I had related to
11:13:42:04 what Mr. Miranda was speaking to and what appears to be
11:13:46:18 group C on the map, the blue area, which looks like
11:13:50:25 it's kind of West Tampa, well, going from -- yeah, it

11:13:55:06 looks like it's West Tampa along the interstate and
11:13:57:13 that sort of thing.
11:13:58:09 Is there a possibility that as we do take the wholesale
11:14:06:03 water out toward the airport, et cetera that we might
11:14:09:00 be picking up some of those West Tampa neighborhoods
11:14:12:07 just by virtue of the fact that we'll be going through
11:14:14:15 them anyway? Is that the point of group C?
11:14:19:09 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Group C, the blue area is again the
11:14:21:19 large users.
11:14:22:25 University of Tampa is a particular large user that
11:14:26:04 we're talking to.
11:14:27:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
11:14:27:22 Well, you have a whole area covered in -- colored in
11:14:32:24 blue and says group C.
11:14:35:03 That's a residential area on the whole, are we talking
11:14:37:13 about those residences?
11:14:39:22 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: The reason it is broad is because it
11:14:41:21 includes irrigation for the links project where
11:14:45:16 F.D.O.T. along there will be expanding the interstate.
11:14:49:09 There will be -- there's intended to be lots of lush
11:14:54:15 landscaping like there have been -- I mean, these are
11:14:57:03 old agreements, but it is also there -- we would like
11:14:59:25 to use reclaimed because the agreements have set out
11:15:02:06 that the City of Tampa is responsible for maintaining
11:15:05:18 those areas.

11:15:07:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But I guess my question is and it's
11:15:10:06 an engineering technical question and maybe you can
11:15:12:24 answer it next quarter.
11:15:13:27 If we're running a reclaim trunk line across there
11:15:17:03 along the interstate somewhere, is it possible, as
11:15:21:09 Charlie mentioned, that -- you know, that those West
11:15:24:21 Tampa neighborhoods might also benefit and maybe they
11:15:28:18 would become star two.
11:15:30:01 Maybe they would be the next group of residential
11:15:32:18 neighborhoods to deal with that.
11:15:36:03 You can answer that next quarter.
11:15:38:01 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Well, as we connect the dots, again,
11:15:39:27 I use TIA as an example just to say there's a line from
11:15:43:06 where we exist today to TIA, and we're going to look at
11:15:46:09 all the possibilities along the way.
11:15:47:27 The same thing applies there.
11:15:49:18 Whenever we are able to connect the do, put in a trunk
11:15:52:24 pipeline, we will explore all the possibilities along
11:15:56:00 that route.
11:15:56:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
11:15:57:03 Thank you.
11:15:58:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern.
11:15:59:16 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:15:59:28 I'm going to switch gears here and talk about
11:16:02:22 conservation, which Mr. Thomas was here earlier talking

11:16:06:15 about that.
11:16:07:15 And I want to talk about it in the economic, the cost
11:16:12:03 of that, because the reality is, these are huge,
11:16:16:00 expensive projects to put in these -- put in this
11:16:19:06 infrastructure for reclaimed water.
11:16:21:00 And clearly, you know, as we -- we're looking at your
11:16:25:06 lines where it's going to go in, right?
11:16:28:28 The lines on the map.
11:16:31:06 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: The lines on the map exist.
11:16:32:15 The yellow lines on that map exist.
11:16:35:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:16:35:21 But the rest of it, other than the yellow lines, we've
11:16:38:01 got the whole city not hooked up.
11:16:41:00 So realistically, it's going to take, if we're going to
11:16:45:12 make this our main water savings effort, it's going to
11:16:49:09 take a long time.
11:16:50:12 I think we need to look at, what is the cost to the
11:16:55:21 taxpayers and to the city of doing all this, putting
11:17:01:16 all this reclaimed in as opposed to what it would cost
11:17:05:06 to change the landscaping to Florida friendly.
11:17:10:18 I mean, there are people that don't water anything,
11:17:14:06 because everything they have planted is a native plant.
11:17:17:01 So we're talking about whether we're going to reuse,
11:17:21:07 which is a good thing, but the cost of putting in all
11:17:24:03 that infrastructure, I'd like to see what would it be

11:17:28:09 if we were going to instead give people that money
11:17:34:28 toward landscaping?
11:17:36:15 You know, I go out in my yard.
11:17:39:06 I could tear up my grass in a couple of hours, and, you
11:17:42:13 know, if I had a little money, I could plant plants.
11:17:46:09 And it just -- you know, I think the way we think of
11:17:49:24 things is always in this big project mode when really
11:17:54:15 there are more reasonable, sensible thing to do would
11:17:58:21 be to grow what grows here instead of, you know, going
11:18:03:10 to Home Depot, buying grass, buying all this stuff,
11:18:06:18 putting it in, and then needing to use all that water.
11:18:09:06 So we've got the cost of the water, the cost of the
11:18:11:24 infrastructure.
11:18:13:00 I'm willing to bet that it would be cheaper to move
11:18:18:19 toward having, you know, zero water use for your
11:18:24:27 landscaping.
11:18:25:15 You know, that's a long project, too.
11:18:27:18 But I don't see that anywhere in our plans.
11:18:30:01 And I'd like to see that.
11:18:32:03 At least in tandem with this.
11:18:34:03 But also, as a way to, you know, have the goal be to
11:18:38:09 not even need that reclaimed water for landscape.
11:18:42:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda.
11:18:44:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
11:18:45:01 Prior to a few years ago, there were changes made in

11:18:51:15 the landscape ordinance, if I recall.
11:18:54:07 And I believe now that they were reduced by 50%, am I
11:18:58:03 correct?
11:18:58:09 I don't recall -- I'm correct.
11:19:04:18 I've got a thumbs up.
11:19:05:21 I don't know what that means.
11:19:06:15 If they like my hairstyle or I was correct.
11:19:09:12 But we've done some of those things.
11:19:13:09 And I think what the main thing is, if you don't use
11:19:17:15 this water, you're going to lose it.
11:19:21:00 The expense mentioned before certainly is great.
11:19:23:10 On the other side of the issue is, what's the expense
11:19:25:21 of not doing it?
11:19:26:24 You cannot afford to continue to buy the enormous
11:19:31:19 amount of water that we do from other agencies.
11:19:35:09 We're going to be in a drought for at least three or
11:19:39:21 four years due to the La NiƱa situation in the far
11:19:51:12 east, I think it is, or far west.
11:19:51:13 When you look at it the east will meet the west at some
11:19:51:13 point on Earth.
11:19:51:24 Those jet streams are not coming down.
11:19:54:06 They are staying above us.
11:19:55:18 That means that the cold wind won't meet the hot air of
11:19:58:10 the Caribbean and create rain.
11:19:59:25 So those are the things that you have to understand, in

11:20:03:01 my mind.
11:20:05:12 The reclaimed system eventually will pay for itself, if
11:20:10:18 we have it in.
11:20:11:10 And if it's used to some degree.
11:20:14:16 Mostly, I would say a great return on the buck spent.
11:20:18:24 I understand that these large developments are there.
11:20:22:15 What I like to see also in those agreements, that once
11:20:25:10 we hook up to these large developments that they don't
11:20:29:00 have no resale of this product.
11:20:32:04 In other words, they buy only for the consumptive use,
11:20:35:21 not to re-sell to someone else.
11:20:37:13 I think that way so that in the future, it doesn't
11:20:40:18 happen but I'm satisfied that the reclaim is working.
11:20:45:12 By the figures that you gave us on that 5381, I
11:20:48:27 believe, that Mr. Dingfelder spoke about, and if I
11:20:52:06 recall, you've done an excellent job in increasing the
11:20:54:27 usage from 20-some-hundred to 2900, I believe it was.
11:20:59:19 We lowered the rate, and certainly, that was
11:21:03:12 commensurate with the opportunity that we had to have
11:21:06:12 people hook up.
11:21:07:09 That accounts for about 55% from November '07 to the
11:21:13:19 initial 5381.
11:21:15:07 But I recall that the estimate that was placed on the
11:21:18:24 reclaim back three, four, five years ago, was
11:21:22:16 approximately 8,000 residents.

11:21:24:07 I believe now that if you go into the area, the yellow
11:21:28:22 area that some do and some do not have reclaim, you
11:21:33:03 will find that they will sign up.
11:21:35:06 I know some individuals in the Westshore, Melrose area
11:21:38:22 that have certainly spoke to me about getting reclaim.
11:21:41:09 They have it in the block behind them, but not in the
11:21:43:18 block there or south.
11:21:44:27 And they will sign, and I think that you need a --
11:21:50:06 maybe some volunteers to knock on doors and get them to
11:21:53:24 sign before we do anything.
11:21:55:00 And I think you'll be amazed at the result.
11:21:57:18 Because it's something that's in the forefront.
11:21:59:21 It was always on the back burner.
11:22:01:13 Things are getting to the point now that you have to
11:22:03:16 bring them to the forefront by themselves, because
11:22:06:21 there are issues now brought up on a daily basis.
11:22:09:03 The Atlanta situation is certainly one of them.
11:22:11:12 The drought that we had here in 2001, certainly I
11:22:14:24 remember that.
11:22:15:24 Most of us remember that.
11:22:16:27 And it's something that we have to apply.
11:22:18:24 The next thing is, publicity.
11:22:24:24 I think you've done an excellent job in getting
11:22:29:15 publicity and getting things done.
11:22:31:24 I also feel we as a elected body have to set an

11:22:35:15 example.
11:22:36:03 I'm doing that not only in my water bill but making my
11:22:38:18 house really green.
11:22:39:15 My house is already painted green, but I'm going to add
11:22:42:19 something to it to make it really insulated.
11:22:45:04 And it will be coming out in a couple of weeks.
11:22:47:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena.
11:22:48:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:22:49:06 It seems to me that this is part of our green
11:22:55:01 discussion.
11:22:55:16 That was a perfect segue.
11:22:57:04 And what we should be looking for is not requiring
11:23:03:10 everybody to have to have so much lawn.
11:23:06:10 So this is a legal -- is legal listening?
11:23:09:00 Marty, legal?
11:23:10:04 This is a question, currently, there are neighborhoods
11:23:13:19 in Tampa, particularly in the Tampa Palms area, that
11:23:17:21 have homeowners covenants that require a certain amount
11:23:22:12 of grass, and it seems to me that given the state of
11:23:26:19 the world right now, which is that we are facing a
11:23:29:15 water crisis, that I'd like the Legal Department to see
11:23:35:00 whether because of this situation, the city can
11:23:40:19 countermand those requirements that there be a certain
11:23:42:25 percentage of sod.
11:23:44:03 And I'd also like us to look at our requirements for

11:23:49:03 sod.
11:23:49:09 It seems to me that we really need, as Ms. Mulhern
11:23:52:16 said, to rethink our requirements in terms of requiring
11:23:56:03 sod, which uses up so much water.
11:23:57:25 Because if we look at the map of the city, and we know
11:24:01:04 where the expansion plan for the reclaimed are, it's
11:24:04:06 not ubiquitous.
11:24:05:21 We have a lot of the city that's not covered that won't
11:24:08:04 be addressed.
11:24:09:00 The sod issue really is a significant one.
11:24:13:16 Right now -- so.
11:24:17:28 I guess, my motion would be to have -- and I'd ask
11:24:20:15 Mr. Shelby to sort of lead -- I don't know who to ask.
11:24:24:21 I'll ask the administration to look at what our
11:24:28:19 requirements are in terms of required sod and see if
11:24:32:27 given the water crisis we can address that.
11:24:37:01 We can look at lessening the requirements for sod.
11:24:39:12 And if the city can counter man the homeowners
11:24:45:18 association requirements.
11:24:46:16 >>DAVID SMITH: Good morning.
11:24:47:04 David Smith, city attorney.
11:24:48:21 In my erstwhile existence as a real estate attorney,
11:24:52:16 I've done a lot of protective covenants and
11:24:54:21 restrictions.
11:24:55:06 So I know the answer to that question.

11:24:56:12 The problem is in order to amend covenants and
11:24:57:22 restrictions you need to have unanimity of all the
11:25:00:18 property owners and frequently the lenders.
11:25:02:21 Whether we can mandate it, then you have to deal with
11:25:04:24 the issue of whether that constitutes a taking.
11:25:07:10 What we can do, however, is in our ordinance dealing
11:25:09:21 with our open space and dealing with our plantings and
11:25:12:15 obligations of that nature, I don't think we currently
11:25:15:09 encourage xeric planting.
11:25:17:07 And I think we can do a lot in that area.
11:25:20:06 But we're very limited in what we can --
11:25:23:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Call them Florida friendly.
11:25:24:22 >>DAVID SMITH: Florida friendly.
11:25:25:15 That does sound a lot better than xeric.
11:25:27:21 But we're very limited, unfortunately, with private
11:25:29:25 covenants and restrictions.
11:25:31:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Then this is another idea that I
11:25:33:09 think we have to look at.
11:25:34:15 We are, as I understand, a member of the Florida League
11:25:35:19 of Cities.
11:25:36:12 >>DAVID SMITH: Yes, we are.
11:25:37:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is a statewide issue.
11:25:39:03 Statewide -- and the governor is showing a lot of
11:25:42:07 progressive action in terms of the environment.
11:25:44:18 We should -- and our role as a member of the Florida

11:25:47:12 league of cities in working with our legislative
11:25:48:22 delegation look at a statewide rethinking of required
11:25:54:16 sod.
11:25:55:15 >>DAVID SMITH: That's an excellent idea.
11:25:57:00 There's a statute, chapter 723, I believe, that
11:25:59:10 regulates homeowners associations.
11:26:01:03 One of the things they've done in that statute in the
11:26:03:03 past, for example, is they prohibited restrictions on
11:26:05:09 display of the American flag and things of that nature.
11:26:09:03 They may be able to say covenants and restrictions on a
11:26:12:10 go-forward basis cannot prohibit Florida friendly
11:26:15:00 landscaping.
11:26:15:24 So that may be a way to do that.
11:26:19:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What would you recommend, if I want
11:26:20:25 us as a city to take a look at that, what would be the
11:26:23:27 appropriate --
11:26:26:03 >>DAVID SMITH: I think if you would like to make a
11:26:27:15 motion to have us look at that issue to bring to the
11:26:29:18 attention of the Florida League of Cities as part of
11:26:31:18 our legislative program, we work with them on a regular
11:26:35:18 basis in advance of the legislative session.
11:26:37:13 We talk about our legislative priorities.
11:26:39:00 If this is Council's sentiment that you would like to
11:26:41:04 see that included in the legislative priorities, I'd
11:26:44:06 make a motion to that effect.

11:26:45:27 And we can talk to the League of Cities and see what we
11:26:48:15 can do to get it on the agenda.
11:26:50:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That would be my motion then that we
11:26:52:15 send a copy of that also to the governor's office
11:26:54:24 because he's providing some environmental leadership.
11:26:58:00 Is there a second?
11:26:59:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
11:27:00:03 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:27:01:03 All in favor of the motion, aye.
11:27:02:13 Opposed, nay.
11:27:03:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:27:04:15 That was such a good idea.
11:27:06:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Mr. Daignault, I forgot to ask you.
11:27:08:12 This is coming back to the neighborhood, not statewide.
11:27:12:21 The parks and the riverfront, you have that list of
11:27:17:15 parks.
11:27:18:00 I think that we should be putting all Florida
11:27:23:24 friendly -- I know we're going to have grass for this
11:27:27:10 big park.
11:27:29:04 I guess we are.
11:27:29:27 I'd be willing to reconsider that.
11:27:34:27 But if the rest of the landscaping -- because it looks
11:27:38:24 like every time we put in a park, it's just grass.
11:27:41:25 And I think we need to be the leader in this if we're
11:27:44:25 expecting other people to conserve.

11:27:47:04 So if we could start making that big consideration.
11:27:56:07 >> Bayshore as it is unless it's intended to be
11:27:59:15 changed.
11:28:00:00 We do provide irrigation with potable down there now.
11:28:02:19 That is a large offset if we can use reclaim and not
11:28:09:15 use potable water to irrigate Bayshore.
11:28:12:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
11:28:12:09 But I'm talking about other, especially when we're
11:28:14:09 doing brand-new parks that we do them Florida friendly.
11:28:18:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Daignault.
11:28:20:07 We now go to number 84, Mr. Gregory Hart.
11:28:25:10 >> Good morning, Council.
11:28:26:10 Gregory Hart, manager of minority business development.
11:28:29:12 I have a brief staff report for you as a follow up to
11:28:33:15 the recent workshop held on the small business
11:28:37:03 enterprise women minority business enterprise draft
11:28:40:12 ordinance.
11:28:40:24 I have a handout for you, if I may.
11:28:43:15 The outcome of that workshop provided or generated for
11:28:57:00 me and for legal a list of comments and questions that
11:29:03:06 we promised we would address during the interim between
11:29:07:21 this meeting, the workshop, and when legal brings
11:29:10:06 forward to you the polished draft ordinance.
11:29:15:19 I guess that would be your next and final meeting in
11:29:17:19 December.

11:29:18:04 Having said that, what I've provided you with, and I
11:29:20:18 will walk through it, is my response to those comments
11:29:26:03 and questions that were provided to us at that
11:29:28:16 workshop.
11:29:29:01 So I'll take that first comment or question.
11:29:32:28 And these were comments and questions that you had
11:29:34:21 asked us to consider as we begin polishing that draft
11:29:38:06 ordinance.
11:29:38:18 So it's specifically related to the ordinance.
11:29:41:01 And some of the things that you have desired to be
11:29:45:00 considered and included in the ordinance.
11:29:46:15 That first comment or question was that the ordinance,
11:29:50:18 this is an economic development and economic
11:29:53:04 empowerment tool.
11:29:54:18 How can Tampa city government better demonstrate its
11:29:59:01 commitment to outreach through this ordinance.
11:30:00:21 How can it be strengthened?
11:30:03:03 And our response was that the ordinance will provide
11:30:06:21 for electronic notices of procurement.
11:30:09:15 Additionally, new quote wire procedures provide for
11:30:13:18 application of electronic notices through demand star
11:30:16:09 and will assure that all certified WMBEs and SBEs
11:30:20:04 receive notification for opportunities, $2,000 and
11:30:23:16 above through both the informal and formal bid process.
11:30:26:22 My office, minority business development, as relates to

11:30:31:13 outreach, we do coordinate and will continue to
11:30:34:07 coordinate with local agencies to facilitate workshops
11:30:37:24 on our WMBE and SBE program.
11:30:40:00 We hold certification seminars.
11:30:42:12 We conduct orientations with regard to our programs.
11:30:46:00 And we do in conjunction with the purchasing department
11:30:49:25 and some of the other city departments, a seminar which
11:30:54:25 is titled "how to do business with the City of Tampa."
11:30:57:18 Regarding outreach, if I might just take a moment and
11:31:01:09 inform you, kind of plug something that's being planned
11:31:03:15 that I think is going to be really, really significant
11:31:06:00 and beneficial to our small and minority business
11:31:08:21 community, and that is a symposium being planned for
11:31:13:06 April.
11:31:14:04 I'll just take a minute and plug it.
11:31:16:18 Let me see if the elmo is on.
11:31:18:18 I just wanted to plug the fact that the Mayor's
11:31:30:09 African-American advisory committee is planning a
11:31:34:12 symposium in April on economic development for minority
11:31:38:24 businesses.
11:31:39:15 It's going to be a day-long instructional outcome
11:31:44:18 results-oriented workshop, which will provide some
11:31:48:22 action plan and initiatives from that workshop that can
11:31:53:06 be brought forward.
11:31:54:12 And the committee and its participating partners can

11:31:57:06 perhaps report on those actions six to eight months
11:32:00:21 after the April 26th workshop.
11:32:02:27 This is being planned as an all-day event, again,
11:32:10:09 tentatively April 26th.
11:32:11:27 Participants will be able to register online.
11:32:15:09 We will have much more information about this symposium
11:32:19:09 or summit in the months to follow.
11:32:23:03 I want to plug that I'm kind of ahead of myself in the
11:32:27:03 group and making notice of it, but I couldn't help it.
11:32:30:21 I think it's going to be a great event.
11:32:32:12 Back to the list of comments and questions.
11:32:34:15 The second question was, should the committee be
11:32:37:27 constituted differently?
11:32:39:21 Is it appropriate to make the Chief of Staff the chair?
11:32:42:13 Should the appointments be reaffirmed annually by the
11:32:44:28 Mayor with approval of the City Council?
11:32:46:18 Our recommendation or suggestion is that the ordinance
11:32:51:21 as revised will establish what's being termed the Equal
11:32:56:15 Business Opportunity Advisory Council, the EBOAC.
11:33:00:12 Now, this Council or advisory committee is a spin-off
11:33:03:28 or a transition from the external task force group,
11:33:08:00 which was appointed to assist us in reviewing the Mason
11:33:11:00 Tillman study and the recommendations.
11:33:12:28 So we believe and the task force agrees that we would
11:33:17:19 transition that group into an advisory committee

11:33:21:15 status.
11:33:21:27 The recommendation would be that appointments to the
11:33:25:25 EBOAC are made by the Mayor and City Council with City
11:33:31:09 Council's approval every two years.
11:33:33:00 The SBE committee and goal-setting committee
11:33:36:09 composition would be revised to include an EBOAC
11:33:40:04 representative.
11:33:40:15 And the MBD manager would serve as chairperson on those
11:33:47:25 committees.
11:33:48:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Hart, I hate to interrupt you.
11:33:50:03 Are you going to read each and every one of the items?
11:33:52:18 >> If you like --
11:33:54:18 >>GWEN MILLER: We will read them.
11:33:55:22 >> Okay, that's great.
11:33:56:27 >>GWEN MILLER: If we have a workshop, they can come up
11:33:58:19 in a workshop or whatever.
11:33:59:22 Reverend Scott.
11:34:01:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Madam Chair, members of
11:34:02:15 Council.
11:34:02:27 I had hoped that when we brought the ordinance back,
11:34:06:12 which I thought was December, Mr. Smith, that we would
11:34:12:15 have those discussions as to what was changed in the
11:34:14:28 ordinance because it is my understanding, the questions
11:34:18:09 I raised addressing that and some of those changes
11:34:21:00 would be implemented or looked at.

11:34:22:18 What we have here before us today is the question of --
11:34:26:06 a series of questions in response to those questions.
11:34:28:24 So my concern is, at what point, again, the ordinance
11:34:33:03 being brought back, and those changes being made that
11:34:36:00 we can look at.
11:34:37:22 When will we have this ordinance before us and those
11:34:40:12 changes?
11:34:43:00 >>DAVID SMITH: Good morning, David Smith.
11:34:44:07 City Attorney.
11:34:44:27 We will have the ordinance -- it's projected to come
11:34:47:21 back to you December 20th.
11:34:49:09 So we will anticipate having that discussion at that
11:34:51:09 time.
11:34:52:06 Of course, you would like to and we'll make sure we get
11:34:54:24 you the revised ordinance a week in advance so you have
11:34:57:09 an opportunity.
11:34:58:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Have the revised ordinance and also
11:35:00:15 those questions that were raised at that time, you
11:35:02:18 could address those questions when it comes back to us.
11:35:07:01 >>DAVID SMITH: It's easier to follow when you can look
11:35:09:00 at it in the context, yes.
11:35:12:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Since we don't have the ordinance
11:35:14:15 finalized yet, I have a couple of things that I would
11:35:17:06 like to suggest.
11:35:18:06 I know I don't want to take too much time.

11:35:21:24 I just want to suggest them and we can talk about them
11:35:26:07 later.
11:35:26:18 One of my questions is -- my problem with this -- not
11:35:33:21 my problem, but I think we really need to promote small
11:35:37:03 businesses in general, because they are the ones that
11:35:40:04 drive our economy.
11:35:41:00 They represent 99.7% of all employer firms.
11:35:46:03 So almost all of our jobs are coming from there.
11:35:48:22 They employ half of all private sector employees.
11:35:52:09 They pay 44% of all private payroll.
11:35:57:25 They generate 60 to 80 percent of net new jobs
11:36:00:18 annually.
11:36:01:09 Create more than 50% of nonfarm private gross domestic
11:36:07:21 product.
11:36:08:06 Employ 39% of high-tech workers.
11:36:11:06 Make up 97% of all identified exporters.
11:36:15:21 And total approximately 23 million in the United States
11:36:19:09 with roughly 75% of the firms having no employees.
11:36:25:00 So, I guess, there are a lot of them that are single
11:36:30:00 run -- you know, one-person businesses.
11:36:32:06 But I'm harping on this because it's not just about
11:36:36:16 being fair.
11:36:37:09 It's about driving our economy.
11:36:39:07 And our tendency to give contracts to the big guys is a
11:36:45:15 mistake.

11:36:46:03 You know, I think we need to look at the smaller people
11:36:49:07 first.
11:36:49:19 So, here are two of the things I would like us to look
11:36:53:03 at.
11:36:53:24 There's a middle ground missing, and I've heard this
11:36:56:15 from people who started small businesses and are
11:36:59:24 starting to grow.
11:37:01:07 And if you have -- we have this definition, is it two
11:37:04:18 million in revenue that after you make more than that,
11:37:08:06 you're not a small business anymore?
11:37:10:13 >> That's correct.
11:37:11:12 Small business enterprise program.
11:37:13:03 There is a gross receipts cap of two million dollars
11:37:17:07 averaged over a three-year period.
11:37:19:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
11:37:20:06 So there's a lot of room between that and these huge
11:37:24:03 Skanska, and these huge corporations that we're doing
11:37:29:07 lots and lots of business with.
11:37:30:19 And I think -- I don't know what we can do, but if
11:37:33:03 there's some way within this ordinance to kind of
11:37:35:13 address that, one of the things that someone told me
11:37:40:15 was the problem is when you're trying to mentor --
11:37:43:21 you're trying to mentor people in your small business,
11:37:47:06 especially with women and minorities, and so once you
11:37:50:03 start growing, and you're able to hire these employees,

11:37:53:27 you lose any kind of -- you don't get a boost up.
11:37:58:00 And, you know, if somebody has got 50 engineers and you
11:38:02:06 only have two, it's tough.
11:38:05:03 So, I mean, I know you know all this, but I'm just
11:38:08:15 wondering if we can look at a way within the ordinance
11:38:10:27 to do that.
11:38:11:15 And the other thing is, this may be in the ordinance,
11:38:17:00 but if not, if we could look at -- if you have -- you
11:38:21:01 get to the point where you have three bids and all
11:38:26:21 three are pretty much equal in price and qualifications
11:38:31:03 and everything.
11:38:32:21 Is there a way -- or two of them are, that you could
11:38:38:00 give preference at that point, some kind of points for
11:38:41:22 the small business then to be chosen.
11:38:45:18 >> The current executive order, which addresses the
11:38:50:15 small business enterprise program does provide when the
11:38:54:07 Mayor enhanced that program back in May of 2007, it now
11:38:58:01 provides for bid points, bid discount points.
11:39:03:03 So if it's a hard bid kind of procurement, the SBE
11:39:06:21 would be provided a 5% discount.
11:39:10:19 Her bid would be evaluated as if it was 5% less
11:39:14:00 compared to the other bids to a maximum preference of
11:39:18:27 $10,000.
11:39:22:18 >>MARY MULHERN: So you're doing that already?
11:39:24:21 >> We are doing some of that already.

11:39:27:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:39:27:19 And I'm wondering if that's really helping, if it's
11:39:30:00 enough.
11:39:30:12 Maybe that's what we need to look at.
11:39:32:06 Is that giving them enough of an advantage to get some
11:39:36:07 of those jobs?
11:39:39:00 >> We'll surely track that and do some analysis over
11:39:41:06 time, do some measuring and performance evaluation to
11:39:45:04 see what effect it has had.
11:39:47:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:39:47:18 Thanks a lot.
11:39:48:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Hart.
11:39:49:22 I look forward to you bringing us the ordinance back on
11:39:52:24 December the 20th.
11:39:53:28 Mr. Joe Caetano, if you can hear me, would you please
11:39:58:15 come to the chambers.
11:40:00:00 Mr. Shelby, item number 89 -- 87.
11:40:07:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 87, yes, council, Mr. Caetano has
11:40:10:03 arrived.
11:40:10:24 This is a vote with the full Council.
11:40:12:19 It's been placed on your agenda pursuant to rule 4-C of
11:40:17:18 Council's rules of procedure.
11:40:18:25 It is here because there was a tie vote.
11:40:22:15 The motion, as you can see, was that it was placed on
11:40:29:09 first reading and read by title only.

11:40:32:24 And the motion was not adopted.
11:40:35:03 There was a tie vote.
11:40:36:16 The public hearing is closed, and I believe Council
11:40:40:22 member Mulhern was absent at the time.
11:40:43:09 Ms. Mulhern, have you reviewed the record and are you
11:40:45:28 prepared to vote?
11:40:47:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, I've had an opportunity to review
11:40:49:01 it.
11:40:49:12 I watched the entire videotape of it.
11:40:52:04 And I'm ready to vote.
11:40:54:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: What --
11:40:59:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Does everybody --
11:41:04:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Does everybody understand what the
11:41:06:27 motion?
11:41:07:19 >>THE CLERK: That said ordinance be placed on first
11:41:09:12 reading by title only and published.
11:41:12:03 The title of the ordinance has been read in full.
11:41:15:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So the motion was to approve.
11:41:17:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion from Mr. Caetano was to
11:41:19:09 approve.
11:41:19:19 I don't know who seconded it.
11:41:21:24 >> Scott.
11:41:22:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We had a motion for approval on item 87,
11:41:25:12 all in favor of approval, aye.
11:41:26:18 Opposed, nay.

11:41:29:12 >>THE CLERK: The motion failed with Mulhern,
11:41:32:06 Dingfelder, Miranda, and Saul-Sena voting no.
11:41:38:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Wait a minute, because it failed,
11:41:40:06 don't you need a motion to deny now?
11:41:42:25 >> Move to deny.
11:41:43:24 >> Second.
11:41:44:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second for denial.
11:41:45:24 Question on the motion?
11:41:47:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: UM, yeah, legal has told us we need
11:41:51:28 grounds and basis of denial of a rezoning.
11:41:55:09 I don't recall what the staff recommendation -- I think
11:41:56:28 the staff recommendation was to deny, so that's a good
11:42:00:18 start.
11:42:01:03 Who made the motion?
11:42:03:28 Okay.
11:42:06:03 Confirming Ms. Saul-Sena's motion, staff has
11:42:11:00 recommended denial.
11:42:13:00 I don't believe it's consistent with our zoning code.
11:42:17:00 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion for denial.
11:42:18:10 All in favor of that motion, aye.
11:42:19:28 Opposed, nay.
11:42:22:03 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Miller, Scott and
11:42:25:19 Caetano voting no.
11:42:29:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 88 is ordinance for second reading.
11:42:31:21 Is there anyone in the public who wants to speak on

11:42:34:21 that item?
11:42:36:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
11:42:43:03 >> You have to open it.
11:42:44:27 >> Move to open number 88.
11:42:47:21 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion, aye.
11:42:49:25 Did we have -- didn't have anyone who wanted to speak.
11:42:52:13 >> Move to close.
11:42:53:06 >> Second.
11:42:53:21 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor, aye.
11:42:55:09 Mr. Caetano, would you read that, please?
11:43:00:10 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Ordinance presented for second
11:43:01:27 reading, ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida,
11:43:03:27 amending, repealing and replacing section 11-137 of the
11:43:08:06 City of Tampa Code to provide for adoption of the
11:43:10:19 Florida fire prevention code; repealing section 11-138
11:43:14:24 and 11-139 of the City of Tampa Code to provide for the
11:43:20:27 deletion of obsolete or redundant code references;
11:43:26:06 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict;
11:43:29:06 providing for severability; providing an effective
11:43:31:21 date.
11:43:32:19 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:43:34:27 >> Who was the second?
11:43:36:15 >> Second.
11:43:37:00 >> Second.
11:43:37:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Vote and record.

11:43:58:09 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
11:44:06:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
11:44:06:24 We need to open items 89 through 98.
11:44:10:12 We have a motion and second.
11:44:11:12 All in favor of the motion, aye.
11:44:13:00 Is there anyone in the public going to speak on items
11:44:16:15 89 through 98, please stand and raise your right hand?
11:44:24:24 (Oath administered by clerk).
11:44:30:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public want to
11:44:32:03 speak on item number 89?
11:44:33:21 We have a motion and second to close.
11:44:39:01 All in favor, aye.
11:44:41:24 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Ordinance being presented for second
11:44:43:01 reading, ordinance vacating, closing, discontinuing,
11:44:46:00 and abandoning a certain right-of-way, a portion of
11:44:48:12 alleyway lying south of East Forest Avenue, north of
11:44:52:22 east Columbus Drive, east of North Taliaferro Avenue
11:44:56:09 and west of North Mitchell Avenue in Centralia
11:45:01:10 subdivision, a subdivision located in the City of
11:45:03:06 Tampa, Hillsborough County, Florida; the same being
11:45:07:21 more described in section 2 hereof; providing an
11:45:10:24 effective date.
11:45:11:06 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:45:12:09 Vote and record.
11:45:29:24 >>THE CLERK: I'm sorry.

11:45:30:21 We're having some technical difficulty.
11:45:33:27 It's not showing the no votes.
11:45:36:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Do roll call?
11:45:44:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
11:45:47:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
11:45:50:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
11:45:52:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:45:56:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
11:45:59:03 >>MARY MULHERN: No.
11:46:02:09 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Yes.
11:46:04:27 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Mulhern and
11:46:08:00 Saul-Sena voting no.
11:46:09:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public want to
11:46:11:04 speak on item number 90?
11:46:14:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
11:46:15:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:46:16:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close.
11:46:17:15 All in favor, aye.
11:46:19:01 Ms. Mulhern, would you read that, please?
11:46:22:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Move to adopt an ordinance being
11:46:25:07 presented for second reading, an ordinance vacating,
11:46:28:03 closing, discontinuing and abandoning a certain
11:46:30:10 right-of-way, all that portion lying south of 3rd
11:46:33:06 Avenue, north of CSX railroad, east of north 35th
11:46:36:27 street, and west of north 37th street, in east bay

11:46:40:15 park, second revision, a subdivision located in the
11:46:43:03 City of Tampa, Hillsborough County, Florida; the same
11:46:45:21 being more fully described in section 2 hereof;
11:46:48:22 providing an effective date.
11:46:49:07 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:46:50:19 Roll call vote.
11:46:52:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:46:54:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
11:46:55:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
11:46:57:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:46:58:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
11:46:59:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
11:47:01:15 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Yes.
11:47:03:06 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
11:47:05:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public want to
11:47:06:13 speak on item number 91?
11:47:08:19 >> Move to close.
11:47:09:19 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to close.
11:47:11:06 All in favor of the motion, aye.
11:47:13:00 Ms. Mulhern.
11:47:14:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Move to adopt upon second reading an
11:47:19:12 ordinance being presented.
11:47:21:24 An ordinance vacating, closing, discontinuing, and
11:47:24:06 abandoning a certain right-of-way, all that alley lying
11:47:27:03 west of 34th Street, north of 2nd Avenue, east of

11:47:29:27 31st Street and south of 3rd Avenue, in El Valle De
11:47:35:06 Tampa, a subdivision located in the City of Tampa,
11:47:38:03 Hillsborough County, Florida, the same being more fully
11:47:40:09 described in section 2 hereof, providing an effective
11:47:42:04 date.
11:47:42:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:47:44:07 Voice roll call.
11:47:46:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:47:47:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
11:47:49:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
11:47:51:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:47:52:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
11:47:53:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
11:47:55:15 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Yes.
11:47:57:12 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
11:48:00:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 92.
11:48:03:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Madam Chair, before we start, I do
11:48:04:09 have a conflict on 92 and 95.
11:48:09:03 Noticed in the ordinance providing special use on 92,
11:48:11:21 and I was also noticed on the rezoning of certain
11:48:14:21 properties on 95.
11:48:16:00 So I will abstain from voting on 92 and 95.
11:48:20:15 Here they are for the record.
11:48:22:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just for the record, you are filing
11:48:24:09 the forms with the city clerk.

11:48:25:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, I am.
11:48:26:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
11:48:29:06 >>JILL KARSI: Jill Karsi, Land Development
11:48:30:25 Coordination, I have been sworn.
11:48:32:15 The required site plans have been received between
11:48:34:25 first and second reading and certified by your zoning
11:48:37:06 administrator and will be filed with the clerk's
11:48:39:06 office.
11:48:39:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:48:40:09 Anyone in the public want to speak on item 92?
11:48:43:00 >> Move to close.
11:48:43:24 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to close.
11:48:45:04 All in favor of that motion, aye.
11:48:47:07 Opposed, nay.
11:48:49:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I move the adoption of the following
11:48:54:03 ordinance.
11:48:54:18 Ordinance approving a special use permit S-1 on appeal
11:48:57:24 from a decision of the zoning administrator waiving the
11:49:00:06 required access to an arterial or collector street and
11:49:03:24 approving access to a local street in a CI commercial
11:49:08:21 intensive zoning district in the City of Tampa,
11:49:11:04 Florida, and more particularly described in section 1;
11:49:13:27 waiving the requirement of section 27-272 to allow
11:49:17:09 access to a local street; providing an effective date.
11:49:19:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We need a second.

11:49:20:21 We have a motion and second.
11:49:21:22 Voice roll call.
11:49:22:15 Question on the motion.
11:49:25:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Cole.
11:49:26:18 Julia?
11:49:27:06 Mr. Grandoff raised an issue about the validity of the
11:49:31:25 ordinance in light of the fact it doesn't include an
11:49:33:25 exact address.
11:49:34:28 92.
11:49:36:27 >>JULIA COLE: I mentioned that earlier.
11:49:38:00 I'm comfortable with it going forward under this
11:49:41:18 context with this title, specifically -- it doesn't
11:49:46:06 even need to be an ordinance, first of all.
11:49:48:00 And second of all, because it's a special use permit
11:49:50:21 and we're not amending the zoning map, it doesn't need
11:49:53:04 to include the exact address in the text.
11:49:55:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you feel it's legally sufficient?
11:49:57:06 >>JULIA COLE: I am comfortable that it is legally
11:49:58:15 sufficient.
11:49:59:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Voice roll call.
11:50:02:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: UM, yes.
11:50:05:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Abstain.
11:50:08:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
11:50:10:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:50:11:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.

11:50:12:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
11:50:14:15 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Yes.
11:50:15:21 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously with
11:50:18:12 Miranda abstaining.
11:50:19:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public want to
11:50:21:15 speak on item number 93?
11:50:23:00 You may speak.
11:50:27:18 >> John Hudson, 707 North Himes Avenue, president of
11:50:31:25 Oakford Park Neighborhood Association.
11:50:34:21 The initial hearing, I believe there was some issue
11:50:39:19 with the notice.
11:50:40:07 I'm not sure exactly what happened.
11:50:43:00 We were able to discuss the matter before the general
11:50:48:06 membership at our November meeting.
11:50:50:24 Mr. Barcena attended and made a presentation.
11:50:54:09 And one thing was abundantly clear that we certainly do
11:50:57:28 enjoy having businesses like this in the area.
11:51:01:15 After a discussion among the members, it was a vote
11:51:05:09 that we would like to support the wet zoning, but with
11:51:12:09 the hours of operation, concluding at 1 a.m., and it
11:51:17:09 was a decision that was based on a lot of different
11:51:20:28 factors.
11:51:22:18 Lasted over an hour.
11:51:24:13 The meeting discussing this.
11:51:27:21 They wanted me to come down and present that.

11:51:32:27 And we were not able to come to the last hearing
11:51:35:03 because we didn't get the notice?
11:51:36:12 We wanted to come down and bring that, and I would
11:51:43:19 appreciate you finding with the neighborhood, if
11:51:49:27 possible.
11:51:50:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone else like to speak?
11:51:55:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:51:56:00 I would like to ask the petitioner if they are willing
11:51:58:13 to go along with the 1 a.m. closing?
11:52:01:24 >> Council, we debated that issue fairly extensively
11:52:04:18 and came back with a compromise.
11:52:07:21 One of the issues, one of the neighborhood groups
11:52:09:21 opposing it was two or three blocks away across Himes
11:52:13:21 and across the other side of Kennedy Boulevard.
11:52:16:07 And we're at second reading, and the objective was to
11:52:19:16 get their restaurant open by Christmas, which cannot
11:52:22:00 happen if we go back to first reading.
11:52:24:00 So we respectfully request that we stick with the
11:52:27:06 compromise that we reached with the Council previously.
11:52:34:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Michelini, you handed me some
11:52:36:06 papers.
11:52:36:16 What would you like?
11:52:37:16 >> Those are letters of support, additional letters of
11:52:39:19 support for the restaurant.
11:52:40:15 Just have to receive and file them would be

11:52:42:22 appropriate.
11:52:43:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
11:52:44:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I apologize.
11:52:45:06 I wasn't here for first reading.
11:52:47:27 What -- is this to add hard liquor to the existing
11:52:52:21 restaurant?
11:52:53:09 >> Correct.
11:52:53:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So it's not a function of opening a
11:52:57:00 restaurant.
11:52:57:06 It's a function of expanding the use within the
11:52:59:07 restaurant?
11:53:00:24 >> Well, it's adding a building and a patio to the
11:53:05:06 existing wet zoning.
11:53:07:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
11:53:07:18 And then --
11:53:08:10 >> And it also changes it from a 2(COP-R) to a
11:53:11:24 4(COP-R).
11:53:15:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What are the existing hours?
11:53:17:18 >> There aren't any.
11:53:19:01 There were no restrictions.
11:53:20:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's not my question.
11:53:21:24 The restaurant operating there today is a fine
11:53:24:06 restaurant.
11:53:24:15 What are the hours of operation of that restaurant
11:53:26:24 today?

11:53:27:06 And the Barcenas are behind you if you don't know the
11:53:32:09 answer.
11:53:32:21 >> That's fine.
11:53:33:09 We talked about that at Council the last time, too.
11:53:36:15 I think their last patrons are leaving somewhere around
11:53:39:21 12 and they have to vacate the premises by 1:00.
11:53:42:04 And there was a lot of discussion about this, and there
11:53:45:06 were motions made back and forth, and the last motion
11:53:48:07 that was made was to go with a 2 a.m. time limit, and
11:53:55:24 that -- again, that was after a lot of back and forth
11:53:59:06 and, again, we're at second reading and appreciate just
11:54:01:24 staying with that and not have to go back to first
11:54:04:09 reading.
11:54:06:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: One more question, then, for
11:54:08:03 Ms. Cole.
11:54:08:21 I'm sorry, Ms. Kert.
11:54:14:07 We've now changed our process in zonings in regard to
11:54:19:06 what types of changes we can make between first and
11:54:21:21 second reading.
11:54:22:13 If we changed it to one pursuant to the neighborhood
11:54:29:21 request, it seems to me to be reasonable in light of
11:54:32:24 the fact they close at midnight, do we just do that in
11:54:37:16 between first and second reading, in other words, let
11:54:39:22 them continue the second reading next week or what have
11:54:43:22 you of the 20th?

11:54:48:10 >>Rebecca Kert: It would not require a change in the
11:54:49:21 title and it is something you could do.
11:54:51:06 However, it's something that the applicant would need
11:54:53:10 to agree to that condition, otherwise it wouldn't be
11:54:56:01 appropriate to impose it.
11:54:57:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
11:54:57:24 So my request, looking for my support would be that
11:55:02:18 they -- that the applicant go along with the
11:55:05:06 neighborhood, because you don't have to go back to
11:55:07:00 first reading pursuant to legal advice just now.
11:55:09:15 We could wrap this up on the 20th.
11:55:14:12 >>Rebecca Kert: I just talked to Ms. Cole, and I would
11:55:16:12 like to clarify.
11:55:17:04 Since we are at second reading, what we would need to
11:55:19:25 do is turn the reading today into first reading and
11:55:22:06 then have another second reading.
11:55:24:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We could wrap it up by the 20th,
11:55:25:27 right?
11:55:32:13 >>MARY MULHERN: We were all here when we had the
11:55:34:15 discussion, I think.
11:55:35:15 Did we have a full Council?
11:55:36:25 Some people were absent at vote, but we discussed all
11:55:40:22 this ad nauseam.
11:55:43:18 You were here.
11:55:44:24 You weren't here at the vote.

11:55:45:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I wasn't here for any of it.
11:55:47:16 I was in the back.
11:55:48:09 I know where I was.
11:55:50:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead, Ms. Mulhern.
11:55:52:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't think we need to go through
11:55:54:25 this again in the thought of bringing this back again
11:55:58:25 for a first reading.
11:56:00:15 I don't think it's fair to the petitioner or to any of
11:56:08:18 us.
11:56:09:06 I think, you know, we had a lot of discussion, and now
11:56:11:24 we're having more discussion.
11:56:12:28 I think we just need to vote on the ordinance that we
11:56:15:15 voted on the last time.
11:56:21:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Do I yield to Mr. Caetano?
11:56:24:00 Of course, I yield to Mr. Caetano on your
11:56:26:15 recommendation, Madam Chair.
11:56:31:01 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: We seem to be dictating all the time
11:56:32:16 on how people are going to run their business, what
11:56:35:04 kind of glasses and cups they serve.
11:56:36:22 If we do something, we ought to go down to Ybor City
11:56:39:10 and close some of those places up.
11:56:40:25 We have a gentleman who runs a family restaurant, okay,
11:56:43:21 and we can't tell him that he's got to close at 12:00,
11:56:48:00 because that's what it originally started at.
11:56:49:22 It's not fair.

11:56:50:15 And that's what it has to be, fair.
11:56:52:13 And I remember Mr. Dingfelder saying a few years ago
11:56:55:19 when I came to this Council, that we have to be fair.
11:56:58:15 Okay.
11:57:00:00 If we're going to start closing, let's go down to Ybor
11:57:02:22 City.
11:57:04:06 Thank you.
11:57:04:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Sorry I yielded.
11:57:09:10 [ LAUGHTER ]
11:57:11:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Council member got mad at me!
11:57:13:04 That's good.
11:57:13:24 Madam Chair.
11:57:14:25 May I speak now?
11:57:15:22 This is certainly not about the Barcenas.
11:57:19:12 This is not about their fine business.
11:57:21:03 They certainly are honorable people and have done a
11:57:24:04 marvelous and outstanding job in their location.
11:57:29:04 This is about much more.
11:57:30:01 Let me explain this.
11:57:31:01 It was brought up during the hearings and I'm amazed to
11:57:33:12 see that they don't want conversation on something as
11:57:35:15 important as this when they want to debate everything
11:57:37:18 else in the world here, going to fix the time slot of
11:57:41:04 the zodiac machine and everything else all at once
11:57:44:12 here.

11:57:44:24 We're the smartest people, but sometimes we're not as
11:57:48:18 smart as we think we are.
11:57:50:01 Let me go on and say this, I remember this hearing
11:57:53:12 distinctly, because I voted against it the first time
11:57:55:15 and I voted for it to get it going because inevitably I
11:57:59:04 was going to lose.
11:58:00:15 But I feel this way.
11:58:01:15 We're going to make a couple of thousand bars,
11:58:05:27 immediately, if this thing passes the way it's written,
11:58:08:25 because if I remember the conversation, you could close
11:58:13:03 at any time, 3:00 in the morning.
11:58:15:00 That was on the record.
11:58:17:03 I can also tell you that there was comment made, and it
11:58:20:27 was made this morning, that if you close at 12:00, at
11:58:24:10 12:00, if you had to drink at your -- if you had a
11:58:27:27 drink at your table, you had to pay the check and
11:58:29:22 leave.
11:58:30:04 I don't know of one arrest in the City of Tampa --
11:58:32:21 there's an officer back there, maybe he can verify some
11:58:35:01 of this -- that ever made, go in there to find out if
11:58:38:15 somebody is taking a drink at 12:00 when it says you
11:58:41:21 have to close at 12.
11:58:42:27 Not one in the whole history of the City of Tampa.
11:58:45:15 Got a lot more important things to do than go and check
11:58:48:13 who is taking one drink when having dinner at 12:00 or

11:58:51:22 night or 1:00.
11:58:53:00 If we pass this ordinance the way it's written, at 3:00
11:58:55:18 in the morning, we are automatically opening the City
11:59:00:16 of Tampa to a couple of thousand bars because then all
11:59:03:21 the restaurants, if one gets it, they all can get it.
11:59:06:24 And that's what my concern is for the neighborhood.
11:59:09:00 I'm not against the zoning, per se; however, that's why
11:59:14:00 the restaurants were controlled.
11:59:15:27 When strings and beans -- and gentleman made some
11:59:22:10 comments -- opened up another business, that was his
11:59:24:24 own problem.
11:59:25:13 He bought a business, and he didn't do his due
11:59:28:09 diligence when he signed that contract.
11:59:29:19 Not mine.
11:59:30:09 None of us voted on him buying the business.
11:59:33:00 He bought it.
11:59:34:07 He paid the consequences because he had to sell and
11:59:36:18 close at a certain time.
11:59:38:06 That's why they have it the R in the restaurant
11:59:43:19 businesses.
11:59:44:04 That's why they try to keep them as friendly as they
11:59:47:00 can to all the neighborhoods, not only this one.
11:59:49:06 We're dealing in troubled waters and headed for more
11:59:53:00 headaches than the alcoholic people have in their mind.
11:59:56:15 If this passes, we're going to make instantly a couple

11:59:59:28 of thousand locations into bars.
12:00:02:22 And that's all I got to say.
12:00:04:10 And these are fine people, honorable people that work
12:00:07:13 very hard at the restaurant.
12:00:08:27 But this is not about them.
12:00:10:06 This is about a larger, much broader picture that we're
12:00:13:15 looking at.
12:00:14:24 And like I said, I have a very, very liberal heart, but
12:00:20:07 I have a very, very conservative mind.
12:00:25:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't even drink.
12:00:31:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Not even the wine at the altar?
12:00:35:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Grape juice.
12:00:37:13 [ LAUGHTER ]
12:00:37:21 I remember I was reaching a compromise at 2 a.m.
12:00:40:19 That's what I remember.
12:00:41:22 We discussed this issue over an hour.
12:00:43:27 And I'm ready to vote.
12:00:45:10 It's 12:00, and we have a lot more on our agenda.
12:00:51:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to say one thing.
12:00:53:07 We're talking about a restaurant, right?
12:00:55:25 This is zoned restaurant.
12:00:57:00 It's not zoned a bar.
12:00:58:21 So I don't think that --
12:01:01:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's correct.
12:01:02:00 You have to serve food at the same time as alcohol.

12:01:03:24 So I wouldn't be quite so worried.
12:01:08:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder, we're going to vote
12:01:09:28 after this.
12:01:10:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I know.
12:01:11:01 I just need clarification.
12:01:12:24 The ordinance as its written right now is 2 a.m.?
12:01:16:21 Seven days a week?
12:01:17:27 Okay.
12:01:21:00 I understand -- I didn't agree to it.
12:01:23:00 I wasn't here, Tom.
12:01:24:12 So I just wanted to make sure.
12:01:26:03 The other thing I wanted to respond to Mr. Caetano, is
12:01:29:27 I think the Barcenas know that I want to be fair, that
12:01:34:18 Council wants to be fair, but we also have to be fair
12:01:36:21 to the neighborhood.
12:01:37:13 And I think that the neighborhood has made a reasonable
12:01:39:24 request.
12:01:40:09 It's an hour later than they already stay open.
12:01:43:00 Okay.
12:01:43:18 It's not going to delay them significantly.
12:01:45:24 They can have this and be delayed two additional weeks.
12:01:49:07 And we can be done with this on the 20th at second
12:01:52:00 reading.
12:01:52:10 It's not a big deal.
12:01:53:24 I think we need to be fair to the neighborhoods.

12:01:55:16 I can't support it at two.
12:01:58:09 I'll support it at one.
12:01:59:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Anybody else like to speak?
12:02:01:19 Need to close.
12:02:05:21 >> [INAUDIBLE]
12:02:07:21 >> I think everybody has been said, in deference to the
12:02:10:03 Council, we debated the issue.
12:02:11:10 We came back with a compromise.
12:02:12:21 We respectfully request your support for the
12:02:14:15 compromise.
12:02:15:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
12:02:15:25 We can close now.
12:02:16:21 We have a motion and second to close.
12:02:20:03 All in favor of the motion, aye.
12:02:21:10 Opposed, nay.
12:02:23:04 Reverend Scott, would you read that, please?
12:02:27:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I move adoption upon second reading of
12:02:30:12 ordinance appeal -- repealing ordinance number
12:02:34:18 2004-176; making lawful the sale of beverages
12:02:38:16 containing alcohol regardless of alcoholic content,
12:02:41:09 beer, wine, and liquor, 4(COP-R) for consumption on the
12:02:46:13 premises only in connection with a restaurant business
12:02:48:12 establishment at or from that certain lot, plot, or
12:02:52:09 tract of land located at 3437-3441 West Kennedy
12:02:56:04 Boulevard, Tampa, Florida.

12:03:00:13 As more particularly described in section 3 hereof,
12:03:03:21 waiving certain restrictions as to distance based upon
12:03:07:00 certain find, imposing certain conditions, providing
12:03:09:18 for repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
12:03:11:21 effective date.
12:03:12:09 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
12:03:13:12 Roll call vote.
12:03:14:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
12:03:15:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No.
12:03:17:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No.
12:03:19:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
12:03:21:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
12:03:22:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
12:03:25:03 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Yes.
12:03:27:12 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Miranda,
12:03:31:00 Saul-Sena, and Dingfelder voting no.
12:03:35:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby.
12:03:37:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I remind Council, you're at the noon
12:03:39:00 hour.
12:03:39:09 Pursuant to Council's rules --
12:03:41:21 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to make a motion that
12:03:45:19 Council continue second readings.
12:03:49:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I have an appointment.
12:03:50:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm leaving.
12:03:53:24 >>GWEN MILLER: This is the second reading so the clerk

12:03:55:09 can get them together.
12:03:57:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move we come back after the break
12:03:59:15 at 1:30.
12:04:01:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Second readings will go fast.
12:04:03:21 We have five more to go through.
12:04:05:09 We have a second to do the second readings?
12:04:11:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How long it take the second readings.
12:04:13:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Five minutes.
12:04:14:18 There's no more opposition.
12:04:17:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:04:18:07 All right.
12:04:19:24 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to continue
12:04:21:09 the second readings.
12:04:22:15 All in favor of the motion, aye.
12:04:23:24 Opposed, nay.
12:04:24:15 Is there anyone in the public want to speak on item 94?
12:04:28:06 >> Move to close.
12:04:29:06 >> Second.
12:04:34:01 >>JILL KARSI: Jill Karsi, Land Development
12:04:35:09 Coordination, I have been sworn.
12:04:37:04 I would like to verify for numbers 94 through 98 that
12:04:40:21 all appropriate site plans have been received and
12:04:43:21 signed by the zoning administrator.
12:04:46:07 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to close.
12:04:47:22 All in favor of the motion, aye.

12:04:50:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move the following ordinance
12:04:52:24 for second reading, ordinance rezoning property in the
12:04:55:07 general vicinity of 2602, 2610 and 2612 east Busch
12:04:58:21 Boulevard in the City of Tampa, Florida and more
12:05:01:22 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
12:05:04:09 district classification PD planned development,
12:05:06:19 professional office and retail sales, to PD, planned
12:05:10:03 development --
12:05:11:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
12:05:11:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
12:05:12:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
12:05:14:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
12:05:15:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
12:05:16:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
12:05:18:07 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Yes.
12:05:19:06 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
12:05:21:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public who wants
12:05:24:21 to speak on item 95?
12:05:26:24 We have a motion and second.
12:05:28:19 They are all open.
12:05:29:27 We have a motion and second to close.
12:05:31:07 All in favor, aye.
12:05:33:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move the following ordinance for
12:05:34:24 second reading, ordinance rezoning property in the
12:05:37:03 general vicinity of 1104 and 1202 north Howard Avenue,

12:05:41:09 2321 and 2323 west Nassau street and 2311 and 2315 west
12:05:47:10 grace street in the City of Tampa, Florida and more
12:05:49:21 particularly described in section 1, from zoning
12:05:52:00 district classifications CI, and RM-16, residential
12:05:55:00 multifamily, to PD, planned development, office,
12:05:58:12 business professional parking offstreet commercial,
12:06:00:24 providing an effective date.
12:06:01:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
12:06:02:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Abstain.
12:06:03:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
12:06:04:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
12:06:05:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
12:06:07:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
12:06:08:16 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Yes.
12:06:09:12 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously with
12:06:11:15 Miranda abstaining.
12:06:13:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public want to
12:06:14:21 speak on 96?
12:06:17:10 We have a motion and second to close.
12:06:19:09 All in favor, aye.
12:06:22:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move ordinance for second reading,
12:06:24:07 ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of
12:06:26:06 708 east Columbus Drive and 2702 north Mitchell Avenue
12:06:30:01 in the City of Tampa, Florida, and more particularly
12:06:32:18 described in section 1, from zoning district

12:06:34:28 classification RS-50, residential single-family to PD,
12:06:38:15 planned development, mixed use, business/professional
12:06:41:15 office, store-front residential, providing an effective
12:06:44:09 date.
12:06:44:28 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
12:06:46:06 Voice roll call.
12:06:47:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
12:06:49:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
12:06:49:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
12:06:51:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
12:06:52:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
12:06:54:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
12:06:55:09 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Yes.
12:06:56:04 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
12:06:57:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public want to
12:06:59:09 speak on item 97?
12:07:01:13 Motion to close.
12:07:02:13 All in favor of the motion, aye.
12:07:06:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance presented for
12:07:07:19 second reading, ordinance rezoning property in the
12:07:10:13 general vicinity of 3112 west Bay to Bay boulevard in
12:07:13:27 the City of Tampa, Florida, and more particularly
12:07:15:22 described in section 1 from zoning district
12:07:17:21 classification CI, commercial intensive and RM-16,
12:07:21:15 residential multifamily and PD, planned development,

12:07:24:03 office, business/professional, providing an effective
12:07:26:00 date into we have a motion and second.
12:07:27:22 Voice roll call.
12:07:29:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
12:07:30:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
12:07:31:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
12:07:32:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
12:07:33:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
12:07:34:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
12:07:35:25 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Yes.
12:07:36:25 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
12:07:38:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone in the public want to speak on
12:07:40:16 98?
12:07:42:06 We have a motion to close.
12:07:43:06 All in favor, aye.
12:07:45:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like to move the following
12:07:48:00 ordinance for adoption on second reading.
12:07:50:15 An ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity
12:07:52:19 of 1202 north governor street south of Kay street, west
12:07:58:27 of Nebraska Avenue, north of Cass Street and east of
12:08:01:12 Central Avenue in the City of Tampa, Florida, and more
12:08:03:18 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
12:08:05:18 district classifications RM-24, residential multifamily
12:08:08:15 and PD, planned development, mixed use
12:08:11:12 residential/commercial school to PD, planned

12:08:13:25 development mixed use
12:08:14:24 residential/commercial/office/hotel/school, providing
12:08:18:18 an effective date.
12:08:19:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
12:08:21:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
12:08:22:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
12:08:23:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
12:08:24:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
12:08:25:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
12:08:26:06 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Yes.
12:08:27:13 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
12:08:34:07 >> Council, could I beg your indulgence for a second?
12:08:37:06 Mr. Mechanik is here with -- as a representative of
12:08:39:06 opponent on 107.
12:08:40:16 We have to move that hearing anyway because the record
12:08:43:15 was not perfected.
12:08:44:21 Can we please get a motion to move that to
12:08:47:09 February 21st at 10 a.m.?
12:08:50:03 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
12:08:51:15 All in favor of the motion, aye.
12:08:53:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, just for the sake of
12:08:55:09 argument, I just want to have a motion to open it first
12:08:57:19 and then have it continued or is it -- because it's not
12:09:01:13 perfected does it have to be renoticed?
12:09:03:27 >> No, sir, he's already here representing him.

12:09:07:06 >> 10 a.m. appeal hearing.
12:09:09:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
12:09:10:06 We stand adjourn -- recess until 1:30.
12:09:13:25




TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
THURSDAY, DECEMBER 6, 2007
1:30 P.M. SESSION

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realtime captioning which should neither be relied upon
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result of third party edits and software compatibility
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proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.


>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
13:38:32:01 >> Dingfelder? Scott? Mulhern? Caetano?
13:38:36:03 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Here.
13:38:37:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:38:37:06 We need to open item number 99.
13:38:39:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
13:38:40:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
13:38:41:09 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
13:38:42:16 All in favor, aye.
13:38:43:06 Opposed, nay.
13:38:44:03 We're now on the brownfield designation.
13:38:47:18 >> Good afternoon, Cathy Ginster on behalf of the Legal
13:38:52:28 Department.
13:38:53:27 I'm here on the first rescheduled first public hearing

13:38:58:07 for the proposed brownfield designation of the Central
13:39:01:19 Park Village area.
13:39:03:13 The proposed designation follows the submittal of an
13:39:07:06 application from both the Tampa Housing Authority and
13:39:10:06 Central Park Development Group LLC.
13:39:12:09 The details of the application of the proposed
13:39:16:13 development have been outlined in a document entitled
13:39:18:24 "Staff Report on the Central Park Village Application
13:39:22:03 for Brownfield Area Designation" dated November 27th,
13:39:26:15 2007.
13:39:27:06 This is an updated staff report, and it is on file with
13:39:31:00 the City Clerk's Office for the public to review.
13:39:34:00 City Council is not requested to do anything other than
13:39:37:15 hold the public hearing today, and then on
13:39:40:19 December 20th, the second public hearing will be held
13:39:43:18 whereby Council will be requested to approve the
13:39:46:03 brownfield designation.
13:39:47:13 Thank you.
13:39:48:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions from Council members?
13:39:49:06 Is there anyone in the public want to speak on item 99?
13:39:53:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
13:39:54:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
13:39:55:18 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion, aye.
13:39:56:25 Opposed, nay.
13:39:57:21 >> Thank you.

13:39:58:03 >>GWEN MILLER: You're welcome.
13:39:58:15 Need to open 100.
13:40:01:18 >> So move on item 100.
13:40:05:24 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor, aye.
13:40:09:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: These are quasi-judicial proceedings.
13:40:13:28 If you could swear in the witnesses for this
13:40:15:16 afternoon's hearings.
13:40:17:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone going to speak on items 100 to
13:40:20:01 108, please stand and raise your right hand.
13:40:24:13 (Oath administered by clerk).
13:40:29:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby.
13:40:30:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Madam Chair, I believe before you take
13:40:32:00 action, I believe there are items that need to be
13:40:34:00 received and filed into the record by motion please.
13:40:36:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
13:40:38:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
13:40:38:27 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor, aye.
13:40:39:22 Opposed, nay.
13:40:41:24 >> Good afternoon, Dennis Fernandez, Historic
13:40:43:21 Preservation Manager.
13:40:45:15 I'm here on two items today, two landmark hearings,
13:40:48:10 recommendations from the historic preservation
13:40:50:00 commission.
13:40:50:10 The first is a landmark consideration for 501 East
13:40:55:12 Marion Street, which is the St. Andrew's Episcopal

13:40:58:27 Church.
13:40:59:07 I do have a historic Powerpoint.
13:41:00:18 See on your screen a rendering of St. Andrew's
13:41:06:12 Episcopal Church.
13:41:07:22 This is being recommended for landmark designation by
13:41:10:06 the Historic Preservation Commission.
13:41:12:01 Proximity map showing its location, just between Morgan
13:41:17:18 and Madison in the downtown core.
13:41:20:21 You see the Sanborn map to the right there indicating
13:41:25:07 its footprint in 1929.
13:41:27:16 Notwithstanding the overwhelming hardships of
13:41:31:25 pioneering a civilian settlement in Tampa, St. Andrew's
13:41:35:13 mission was established by the Reverend R.A. Simpson in
13:41:38:01 August of 1871.
13:41:39:19 St. Andrew's Episcopal Church was originally built of
13:41:43:03 wood.
13:41:43:10 You see that in the gothic-style photograph here.
13:41:46:06 It was constructed in that manner and was replaced in
13:41:49:15 1904.
13:41:51:06 Began in 1904 with the existing building.
13:41:53:25 Actually, I'm told the bells that were in this original
13:41:58:06 tower are present in the present building.
13:42:00:27 You see some of the Berger Brothers photos of the
13:42:06:06 sanctuary which was designed by Miller and Kennard,
13:42:09:28 prominent local architects.

13:42:11:06 They also designed the Floridan Hotel, the Hillsborough
13:42:11:06 High School and the Rialto Theater.
13:42:13:22 You see the interior of the sanctuary, too.
13:42:17:09 There's a current photo of how the structure looks on
13:42:20:18 Madison Street.
13:42:21:18 It is a mission-style structure with smooth stucco
13:42:25:10 walls, red-tiled roof and frameless windows.
13:42:28:06 Perhaps the most striking feature of the building is
13:42:30:09 the tower and its stained glass windows.
13:42:33:13 You see the interior sanctuary here.
13:42:37:06 Both displaying the sanctuary area along with the Fisk
13:42:41:15 organ on the right.
13:42:43:18 The organ was designed specifically for St. Andrew's by
13:42:47:01 CB Fisk of Massachusetts, the renowned organ designers,
13:42:53:15 and it was the first of its kind in the State of
13:42:55:24 Florida.
13:42:56:03 The building is eligible under criterion A, religion
13:42:59:13 and social history and criterion C, architecture.
13:43:02:09 You can see some of the stained glass windows here.
13:43:04:24 The stained glass windows are some of the finest in the
13:43:07:01 city.
13:43:07:16 I would encourage anyone who hasn't seen them to visit
13:43:10:18 the sanctuary and enjoy them.
13:43:12:18 I do have some members of the church with me today.
13:43:14:21 If there are any questions, I'll be happy to answer

13:43:16:28 them.
13:43:17:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions, Council members?
13:43:19:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
13:43:19:27 This is a real pleasure to have the ability to
13:43:23:25 designate this.
13:43:24:25 It's a beautiful church, and, frankly, it's changed
13:43:28:04 very little over the last eight decades.
13:43:31:03 Thank you for taking the time to show us the interior
13:43:34:15 and exterior shots.
13:43:36:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone in the public want to speak on
13:43:38:07 item 100?
13:43:39:07 We have a motion and second to close.
13:43:42:15 All in favor of the motion, aye.
13:43:45:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
13:43:47:01 And congratulations to the church members here today.
13:43:49:18 Move an ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida,
13:43:51:10 designating St. Andrew's Episcopal Church located at
13:43:55:01 501 North Marion Street, Tampa, Florida, as more
13:43:58:19 particularly described in section 3 hereof as a local
13:44:00:25 landmark, amending the North Franklin Street downtown
13:44:12:03 multiple properties group to include St. Andrew's
13:44:12:03 Episcopal Church; providing for repeal of all
13:44:12:03 ordinances in conflict; providing for severability;
13:44:12:03 providing an effective date.
13:44:13:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.

13:44:14:28 All in favor of the motion, aye.
13:44:20:19 >>THE CLERK: The second reading of the ordinance will
13:44:21:27 be held on December the 20th at 9:30.
13:44:30:13 >> The next item is another landmark consideration.
13:44:32:13 This time for a property located at 302 North Willow.
13:44:36:10 Subject property here currently under renovation is a
13:44:43:22 commercial building used for light industrial use
13:44:45:21 throughout its presence on this location.
13:44:48:07 The owner is Gary Dicus.
13:44:51:13 They are essentially a decorative arts center.
13:44:55:00 And the current use is going to be for a plumbing
13:44:57:21 supply store for high-end plumbing supplies.
13:45:00:09 The building was built in 1926.
13:45:03:18 You see the location indicated on the maps. It is
13:45:07:06 located just to the north of Kennedy, what was behind
13:45:10:09 once was the Ferman automobile sales location.
13:45:14:18 You can see the store there on the Sanborn in 1929.
13:45:17:21 A photo of the store was used as reference during its
13:45:21:24 rehabilitation.
13:45:22:04 You see this particular photo showing the red brick
13:45:25:09 structure with a typical storefront situation.
13:45:28:03 This is how it looks today.
13:45:30:19 The building has been totally rehabilitated.
13:45:32:21 All the openings had been blocked in, including the
13:45:35:27 windows and at the storefront.

13:45:37:18 Everything has been re-created using historic
13:45:40:09 reference.
13:45:40:19 The building is eligible under criterion A, it's a
13:45:46:09 relationship to commerce and trade, and under criterion
13:45:49:04 C for its architecture, and Historic Preservation
13:45:50:21 Commission recommends this designation as local
13:45:53:24 landmark.
13:45:54:12 Thank you.
13:45:55:12 >>GWEN MILLER: No one in the public want to speak on
13:45:57:24 item 101?
13:46:00:06 >> Move to close.
13:46:01:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion and second to close.
13:46:02:25 All in favor of the motion, aye.
13:46:04:24 Ms. Saul-Sena.
13:46:05:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
13:46:06:06 It's really exciting.
13:46:07:04 This strip of Willow is beginning to be renovated
13:46:09:27 again.
13:46:10:07 Stephanie Ferrell was the architect.
13:46:14:04 Mr. Dicus has a building across the street, which he
13:46:17:06 renovated.
13:46:18:21 It's really great to see the part of town sort of find
13:46:22:16 its roots again.
13:46:35:15 Move the following ordinance for first reading.
13:46:35:24 An ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida, designating

13:46:38:07 the Metal Works-Dicus building located at 302 North
13:46:41:28 Willow Avenue, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly
13:46:43:12 described in Section 3 hereof, as a local landmark;
13:46:43:12 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict;
13:46:43:12 providing for severability; providing an effective
13:46:43:12 date.
13:46:45:03 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second, all in
13:46:46:15 favor, aye.
13:46:50:25 >>THE CLERK: The second reading of that ordinance will
13:46:52:21 also be held on December the 20th at 9:30 a.m.
13:46:57:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Madam Chair, I apologize, if we could
13:46:59:07 recall number 79 regarding the appointment to the
13:47:02:01 Hillsborough City-County Planning Commission.
13:47:04:10 The resolution has been prepared.
13:47:07:15 >> Move the resolution.
13:47:08:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion and second to move the
13:47:09:24 resolution.
13:47:10:06 All in favor of the motion, aye.
13:47:12:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
13:47:13:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 102.
13:47:15:06 103.
13:47:17:21 I'm sorry.
13:47:18:09 We did 2.
13:47:20:04 103.
13:47:24:04 >> Eric Cotton, Land Development Coordination.

13:47:26:15 I have a revised staff report.
13:47:28:06 This is WZ07-145, petitioner is Skypoint LLC.
13:47:49:16 This is for the Condo towers downtown.
13:47:51:22 Petitioner is asking for 4(COP) which would allow for
13:47:55:00 full alcohol sales, beer, wine and spirits.
13:47:57:13 I'll let the petitioner's representative, Truett
13:47:59:01 Gardner, get into the actual detail of which spaces
13:48:04:06 will be used for what.
13:48:05:06 There's a map I believe attached to your staff reports.
13:48:07:24 Within a thousand feet, there are a number of wet zone
13:48:11:10 properties.
13:48:11:21 There are a number of institutional uses within a
13:48:14:25 thousand feet.
13:48:16:00 And right above the wet-zoned area will be residential,
13:48:19:27 so there's residential also within a thousand feet.
13:48:22:13 The petitioner is going to be asking for the waiver,
13:48:24:24 which you can grant, because it is downtown under
13:48:27:15 section 3-29-1 that allows you to waive the distance
13:48:31:18 separation requirements when you're within the
13:48:33:24 entertainment district.
13:48:34:19 Thank you.
13:48:39:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry.
13:48:40:16 I'll bring this up later.
13:48:41:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We have to hear from the officer.
13:48:49:06 >> Don Miller, City of Tampa Police Department.

13:48:51:27 The City of Tampa Police Department has no objection.
13:48:52:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Now Mr. Gardner.
13:48:54:00 >> Truett Gardner, 101 South Franklin Street.
13:48:57:00 We are asking for a 4(COP).
13:48:59:15 It is a little bit of a misnomer because we have
13:49:00:25 restrictions that we are placing on the property.
13:49:11:01 If I could, the retail spaces are on the four corners
13:49:18:06 of the building.
13:49:19:03 This is retail space A, B, C, and D as they go around.
13:49:24:00 You should have the restrictions in your backup.
13:49:27:16 But basically we realize the extent of a 4(COP), but
13:49:31:18 the owner wants to be very careful on what uses go in
13:49:34:15 each of those.
13:49:36:13 So just to give you a general idea of the prohibitions,
13:49:40:13 the package sale of liquor is expressly prohibited.
13:49:45:04 We've also expressly prohibited nightclubs.
13:49:47:12 And the package sale of beer and wine is limited to the
13:49:51:12 interior of the spaces, so there can be no sales from
13:49:54:18 the interior to someone on the sidewalk.
13:49:56:19 And then lastly, an order for alcohol to be served in
13:49:59:12 the outdoors, food must also be served along with it.
13:50:03:01 So the intent really is to allow for a sundry-type
13:50:09:06 store that would sell beer, wines.
13:50:11:06 Somebody could take that up to their unit or
13:50:13:15 potentially a wine bar type thing, higher end where

13:50:16:12 somebody could enjoy a glass of wine and also perhaps
13:50:18:21 buy bottled wine to take with them.
13:50:20:21 So that's the request.
13:50:22:12 If you have any questions at all on the restrictions,
13:50:25:21 we're here, and we would be more than happy to answer
13:50:28:10 any questions that you have.
13:50:31:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Kert, did you want to say something?
13:50:34:15 >>Rebecca Kert: Rebecca Kert, Legal Department.
13:50:36:01 I was going to let you know that the conditions are not
13:50:38:07 currently contained within the ordinance.
13:50:39:19 If you wanted to approve this with the conditions,
13:50:41:15 you'd need to direct legal to come back with a new
13:50:44:00 ordinance.
13:50:44:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public want to
13:50:46:03 speak on item 103?
13:50:48:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
13:50:49:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
13:50:50:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close.
13:50:51:22 All in favor, aye.
13:50:52:22 Opposed, nay.
13:50:53:22 Do we have an ordinance for this?
13:50:58:07 >>Rebecca Kert: You need to direct legal to come back
13:51:00:00 with a new ordinance incorporating those conditions.
13:51:02:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move that we ask legal to come
13:51:04:19 back with a proper notice -- the proper alcohol

13:51:12:25 ordinance as requested by the petitioner with all --
13:51:15:13 including all the restrictions that are based on the
13:51:19:16 notice address at 777 North Ashley Street, I believe,
13:51:24:07 is the mailing address.
13:51:25:25 >> That's correct.
13:51:27:01 >>GWEN MILLER: When would it be back?
13:51:29:07 Ms. Kert, when would we have it?
13:51:33:15 >>Rebecca Kert: I can come back at whatever date you
13:51:35:15 all have available.
13:51:38:24 >> Next week.
13:51:41:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Next week is what?
13:51:43:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The 13th.
13:51:46:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't think it will take any
13:51:47:19 length of time.
13:51:49:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 10:30.
13:51:51:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, Council.
13:51:52:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I've got it.
13:51:53:21 Marty, look, it's fine.
13:51:55:12 Trust me.
13:52:01:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: But that's not a regular meeting.
13:52:04:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It says a 10:30 City Council special
13:52:06:22 meeting.
13:52:07:04 We can do it then.
13:52:08:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you wish to or you could do it in
13:52:10:15 the evening session.

13:52:11:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Or at midnight.
13:52:15:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It would be my recommendation that you
13:52:16:27 do it at a regular meeting and barring that, that you
13:52:19:21 do it at the beginning of an evening session.
13:52:22:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: At 6 p.m.
13:52:23:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Next week at 6 p.m.
13:52:26:06 >> If possible, there were some variations of the
13:52:27:27 restrictions floating around.
13:52:29:09 The last one -- we actually had nightclub on there just
13:52:33:03 because the two are linked.
13:52:34:21 I got permission to remove nightclub.
13:52:36:24 So I would like to introduce that to be received and
13:52:39:15 filed.
13:52:40:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: -- part of the record.
13:52:42:16 >>GWEN MILLER: It's part of the record, okay.
13:52:42:24 Motion and second to bring it back next Thursday at
13:52:45:12 6 p.m.
13:52:46:00 All in favor, aye.
13:52:49:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: First up on the agenda.
13:52:51:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 104.
13:52:55:03 >> Good afternoon, Eric Cotton, Land Development.
13:52:58:01 This is petition WZ08-09.
13:53:03:09 I'll provide Council with maps for 09 and 10.
13:53:07:12 They are in the same plaza.
13:53:09:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if I can, just a moment.

13:53:10:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead, Mr. Shelby.
13:53:12:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is this relating to the address at
13:53:17:07 16023 Tampa Palms Boulevard?
13:53:20:01 >> Yes, it is.
13:53:33:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead, sir.
13:53:43:12 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: I've got to abstain because of my
13:53:45:21 business being located in this plaza.
13:53:49:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Caetano, I'll prepare the form for
13:53:52:15 you to file with the clerk and have that for your
13:53:54:25 signature.
13:53:55:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is that for both of them?
13:53:57:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's for items 104 and 105.
13:54:00:18 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Yeah.
13:54:01:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
13:54:02:10 >> This is WZ08-09, petitioner is Lemon Lime New Tampa,
13:54:07:13 Incorporated.
13:54:09:00 The property up in New Tampa.
13:54:10:22 They are requesting a 4(COP-R) for an existing
13:54:14:15 establishment.
13:54:15:12 The current establishment has a 4(COP-R) that was
13:54:17:21 granted in 1988.
13:54:20:03 What they have done, they have increased -- they need
13:54:22:06 to increase their wet zoned area to include both the
13:54:24:18 sidewalk and the patio.
13:54:25:24 The sidewalk is privately owned.

13:54:27:22 It's on the property itself, not on the city
13:54:30:10 right-of-way.
13:54:30:28 They are within a thousand feet, both the Publix and
13:54:33:16 the Ciccio & Tony's, which is up next for wet zoning
13:54:33:16 consideration.
13:54:38:12 There's residential property within a thousand feet.
13:54:40:06 There's a PD zoning district which has residential in
13:54:42:15 it.
13:54:42:25 The petitioner is asking for the waiver under Section
13:54:45:19 3-70 A6 of the distance separation requirements.
13:54:50:06 Thank you.
13:54:54:21 >> Don Miller, City of Tampa Police Department.
13:54:57:12 The City of Tampa Police Department has no objections
13:55:00:01 to this wet zone.
13:55:01:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
13:55:04:04 >> Steve Michelini.
13:55:05:15 I'm here on behalf of Lemon Lime New Tampa.
13:55:08:28 This property currently has a wet zoning and they have
13:55:12:15 altered their lease to increase the square footage by
13:55:15:24 about 606 square feet.
13:55:17:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Are you aware of any opposition?
13:55:19:25 >> No, sir.
13:55:20:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Anybody want to speak on item 104?
13:55:24:09 Got a motion and second to close.
13:55:25:21 All in favor, aye.

13:55:26:24 Do we have an ordinance for that?
13:55:28:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I understand we're going to limit
13:55:36:16 this to close at 9 p.m., is that right?
13:55:39:12 [ LAUGHTER ]
13:55:39:19 I move an ordinance repealing ordinance -- that was a
13:55:42:25 joke -- ordinance number 88-296 making lawful the sale
13:55:46:16 of beverages containing alcohol regardless of alcoholic
13:55:49:15 content, beer, wine and liquor, 4(COP-R) for
13:55:52:15 consumption on the premises only in connection with the
13:55:54:24 restaurant business establishment at or from that
13:55:56:18 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 16023
13:56:00:04 Tampa Palms Boulevard West, Tampa, Florida, as more
13:56:03:24 particularly described in section 3 hereof, waiving
13:56:07:00 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
13:56:09:06 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
13:56:11:28 conflict, providing an effective date.
13:56:13:09 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion, aye --
13:56:15:09 >>THE CLERK: Who was the second?
13:56:17:16 >> Charlie was the second.
13:56:18:24 Right, Charlie?
13:56:20:12 >>GWEN MILLER: 105.
13:56:21:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open.
13:56:23:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: What was the vote announced?
13:56:25:09 Did you announce the vote?
13:56:28:16 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.

13:56:31:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With an abstention.
13:56:33:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Caetano abstaining.
13:56:35:16 >>THE CLERK: And with Caetano abstaining.
13:56:38:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
13:56:40:03 >> Next up is WZ 08-10, this is for Ciccio & Tony's New
13:56:46:10 Tampa Inc.
13:56:47:18 This is at 16019 Tampa Palms Boulevard.
13:56:51:06 This is one unit removed from the previous wet zoning.
13:56:54:18 Petitioner is asking for a 4(COP-R).
13:56:57:00 They have a 2(COP-R) right now that was approved back
13:57:00:00 in 1999.
13:57:01:06 As in the last case, they are expanding the wet zone
13:57:03:21 area.
13:57:03:28 They need to come back before the Council to ask for
13:57:06:09 the wet zoning.
13:57:07:06 They have one within a thousand feet and there is
13:57:10:16 residential property within a thousand feet.
13:57:12:16 Again, they are asking for the distance separation
13:57:14:09 that's allowed under the code.
13:57:20:06 >> Don Miller City of Tampa Police Department.
13:57:22:07 Once again the City of Tampa Police Department has no
13:57:24:21 objections to this wet zoning.
13:57:26:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
13:57:26:27 >> Steve Michelini.
13:57:28:00 I'm here on behalf of Ciccio & Tony's New Tampa.

13:57:32:06 Again, this is an altered lease.
13:57:34:00 For consistency purposes, they are trying to obtain the
13:57:37:00 4(COP-R) for this restaurant.
13:57:39:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Anybody in the public want to speak on
13:57:41:15 105?
13:57:43:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
13:57:44:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close.
13:57:45:03 All in favor, aye.
13:57:47:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
13:57:48:25 Move to adopt an ordinance making an ordinance
13:57:52:07 repealing ordinance number 99-242, making lawful the
13:57:55:25 sale of alcohol beverage containing alcohol regardless
13:57:58:13 of alcohol content, beer, wine, liquor, 4(COP-R) for
13:58:02:01 consumption on the premises only in connection with the
13:58:03:24 restaurant business established at or from that certain
13:58:06:00 lot, plot or tract of land located at 16019 Tampa Palms
13:58:09:18 Boulevard West, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly
13:58:13:00 described in section 3 hereof, waiving certain
13:58:15:15 restrictions as to district based upon certain
13:58:17:21 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
13:58:20:09 conflict, providing for an effective date.
13:58:21:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion and a second.
13:58:23:06 All in favor of the motion, aye.
13:58:25:19 Mr. Dingfelder.
13:58:27:15 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Caetano

13:58:30:15 abstaining.
13:58:32:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry to interrupt, just for the
13:58:34:22 purposes of the record, if we could have a motion for
13:58:37:06 item 102 to remove it from the agenda.
13:58:39:18 It's being withdrawn.
13:58:40:00 I believe Mr. Michelini --
13:58:43:12 >> I don't think you made a motion to formally withdraw
13:58:46:27 that.
13:58:48:15 >>GWEN MILLER: 106, we need to make a motion to
13:58:50:21 withdraw.
13:58:52:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 102 or 106?
13:58:54:09 >> 102 is withdrawn.
13:58:55:13 106 you're setting a new date.
13:58:57:09 107 you already set a new date for.
13:58:59:18 >>GWEN MILLER: 107 we -- 6 we need to set a date.
13:59:02:27 What date is available?
13:59:04:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Says here petitioner requesting
13:59:06:06 February 7.
13:59:06:28 >> So move.
13:59:07:24 >> Second.
13:59:08:09 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion, aye.
13:59:09:24 Opposed, nay.
13:59:11:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did that motion also include the
13:59:12:27 withdrawal of 102?
13:59:14:19 >> Yes.

13:59:15:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
13:59:16:03 >>GWEN MILLER: 108, cannot be heard. What do we do
13:59:21:01 with that one?
13:59:22:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do we need to do anything, Rebecca,
13:59:23:24 on 108?
13:59:26:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Repeal of the variance review board.
13:59:28:13 I don't know whether they filed an amendment fee --
13:59:30:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to strike from the agenda.
13:59:32:07 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
13:59:33:07 All in favor of that motion, aye.
13:59:35:09 Is there any new business from Council?
13:59:37:19 Mr. Caetano, do you have any new business?
13:59:43:01 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: No.
13:59:44:04 >>MARY MULHERN: No, I don't have anything.
13:59:47:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been brought to my attention that
13:59:49:06 the officer of the month for December the 20 will be
13:59:52:09 out of town, and it's been requested to move it to
13:59:55:24 January the 10th, 2008, our first meeting.
13:59:59:06 >> Second.
13:59:59:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion and second.
14:00:00:24 All in favor, aye.
14:00:02:03 Opposed, nay.
14:00:03:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Secondly, Madam Chairman, I think most
14:00:06:21 of you all got the report from Cindy Miller about the
14:00:11:13 Center for Women, that they have a waiting list of 521

14:00:15:04 homeowners in Tampa that's on the waiting list.
14:00:17:18 I'd like for us to add this to our agenda.
14:00:20:21 It doesn't have to be -- have to be January sometime.
14:00:25:10 And have a discussion about what other options are to
14:00:29:03 help these 500 and some people or grants or leveraging
14:00:35:13 through the county, something in terms of trying to
14:00:38:15 help these 521 homeowners.
14:00:40:21 I would like to have a discussion with Ms. Miller's
14:00:43:01 Council on this issue.
14:00:44:09 >> Second.
14:00:46:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Would you like it during unfinished
14:00:48:12 business staff reports on the 17th, perhaps?
14:00:50:16 The second meeting in January.
14:00:52:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yeah, second meeting is fine.
14:00:54:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:00:55:24 All in favor, aye.
14:00:57:03 Anything else?
14:00:58:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's it.
14:00:59:18 Thank you.
14:01:00:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Nothing today, thank you Madam
14:01:01:15 Chairman.
14:01:02:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Oh, I have lots of them.
14:01:04:21 Thank you, Madam Chairman.
14:01:07:09 Chair, I would like to have a commendation made from
14:01:09:15 this Council for two individuals who worked for the

14:01:11:22 city and named in the top 40 graduates of HCC,
14:01:15:12 Hillsborough Community College of over 60,000 students.
14:01:18:28 They were chosen as the top 40, Jeanette Fenton and
14:01:22:24 Chief Dennis Jones.
14:01:24:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
14:01:25:19 All in favor, aye.
14:01:27:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second commendation would be to the
14:01:30:00 Tampa Catholic Crusaders.
14:01:33:15 They are going to the state playoff for the
14:01:35:21 championship game.
14:01:36:10 They are a 2-A school.
14:01:38:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second.
14:01:39:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Coached by Bob Henriquez.
14:01:42:00 And I hope they win.
14:01:43:13 But I'd like to offer them a commendation for no worse
14:01:46:27 than second.
14:01:47:18 [ LAUGHTER ]
14:01:48:06 It's better than a contest for politics.
14:01:52:06 In politics, when you finish second, you are never
14:01:54:21 heard of again.
14:01:55:19 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:01:56:24 All in favor of the motion, aye.
14:01:58:12 Opposed, nay.
14:02:01:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Do you want me to continue?
14:02:02:24 >>GWEN MILLER: You said you had a lot of them.

14:02:06:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to continue to speak about
14:02:07:03 the water situation in the city.
14:02:08:15 We are going to into a drought.
14:02:10:03 We are in a drought for the next two or three years at
14:02:13:01 least, and we must conserve.
14:02:15:12 On some of the watering days, we spend a little over
14:02:18:12 two million gallons more, but on some of the watering
14:02:21:03 days, go as high as 13 million.
14:02:23:13 And this is very recently.
14:02:24:27 And we need to understand that water and grass is
14:02:27:21 needed, but in the winter months, you can do with a lot
14:02:31:01 less water on the grass.
14:02:34:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I had a question to Mr. Dingfelder.
14:02:37:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else, Mr. Miranda?
14:02:39:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No, ma'am.
14:02:40:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena.
14:02:42:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
14:02:43:07 I would like to do a commendation for Allen Steinbach.
14:02:46:21 He's the staff person for the Planning Commission who
14:02:50:18 staffed the livable roadways committee.
14:02:52:15 He's been really responsible for the improvements we've
14:02:54:19 had on Kennedy and Busch Boulevard.
14:02:57:10 He's been really innovative in figuring out how to get
14:02:59:28 money to make those happen.
14:03:02:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll second that.

14:03:03:03 But I think we should also add that he is the one
14:03:05:15 drawing the transit map for the MPO right now.
14:03:09:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion and second.
14:03:10:12 All those in favor, aye.
14:03:12:06 Anything else?
14:03:12:21 Reverend Scott.
14:03:15:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The question I want to raise, I know
14:03:18:21 councilman Dingfelder requested some information from
14:03:21:21 the administration on the layoffs, and I think we all
14:03:26:00 got the same memo.
14:03:27:04 So my question was, how has that been resolved?
14:03:30:10 I'm concerned about that.
14:03:31:18 It just seems when we want information, it's an issue.
14:03:38:07 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Did you read it in the paper,
14:03:40:00 councilman?
14:03:40:25 [ LAUGHTER ]
14:03:41:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Tom, you know me, I don't take no
14:03:44:24 for an answer very well.
14:03:46:00 My plan is to be Joe citizen, and as Joe citizen, I'll
14:03:49:27 go over there and take my public records request and
14:03:52:03 find out the information that I believe we need.
14:03:54:10 And that's what my plan is, actually, hopefully this
14:03:57:06 afternoon.
14:03:58:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Is Mr.-- supposed to come and talk to us
14:04:00:21 on that?

14:04:01:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: He will on the 20th.
14:04:02:27 >>GWEN MILLER: I think the Mayor will meet with each
14:04:04:24 Council member and discuss.
14:04:05:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm sure she will.
14:04:07:07 >>GWEN MILLER: These are two other things we can look
14:04:09:03 forward to.
14:04:10:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, that might be true, but my issue
14:04:12:24 is that when a Council member requests information, it
14:04:16:06 just seems that it always seems to be a barrier or
14:04:20:09 blockage or you know hurdle that we have to jump over.
14:04:23:25 And I don't think that should always be.
14:04:25:21 And so I just raise that to see what other avenue that
14:04:29:10 he request.
14:04:31:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me add one more thing.
14:04:35:00 I admire Mr. Smith.
14:04:37:01 He does a good job representing this city.
14:04:39:18 But, you know, I want to remind him and anybody else
14:04:42:27 who might have read this story, that as a lawyer, my
14:04:46:10 first duty is to uphold the law.
14:04:48:13 And I'm never going to jeopardize this city.
14:04:52:09 Never jeopardize this Council with doing anything I
14:04:54:24 believe would even approach risking a lawsuit or
14:04:58:03 violating.
14:04:59:09 We're not in a position to lay off anybody.
14:05:03:00 Because that's not the role of Council.

14:05:05:03 We've been told what our role is, and it's true.
14:05:08:03 The charter says we're administrative in policy.
14:05:10:12 We're not administrative, but we're policy and
14:05:13:21 legislative.
14:05:14:15 Therefore, us finding out any information to further
14:05:17:06 our policy and legislative goals, okay, I believe is
14:05:20:27 wholly within the law.
14:05:22:00 And I've had that conversation with Mr. Smith.
14:05:24:00 And frankly, I think he acknowledges that.
14:05:26:04 So when I go over there, as Joe citizen, find out this
14:05:29:09 information, perhaps share it with you and the press
14:05:31:16 and anybody else as the Sunshine requires, it's wholly
14:05:35:01 within the requirements of the law.
14:05:37:06 I just wanted to reassure everybody of that.
14:05:40:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Like to strike the word "perhaps" to
14:05:44:04 "assure."
14:05:45:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena.
14:05:46:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: There was an article in the paper
14:05:48:15 yesterday that there was a poll done, and Tampa is the
14:05:51:19 least walkable of 30 metropolitan areas.
14:05:54:15 And this Council has been so committed to trying to
14:05:58:10 create a more safely walkable city.
14:06:00:13 I think we need to remind ourselves what a ways we have
14:06:03:18 to go and when budget comes up and when we have
14:06:07:10 different opportunities to create a safer walking

14:06:10:12 environment, we really need to stick on it.
14:06:12:04 I was very disappointed to see that as I know we all
14:06:15:18 were.
14:06:16:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby, do you have anything?
14:06:17:18 >> NO.
14:06:17:18 >> Clerk, do you have anything?
14:06:18:19 >>THE CLERK: Receive and file.
14:06:20:03 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:06:21:21 Anything else to come before Council?
14:06:24:10 We stand adjourned.
14:06:27:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just for the record, you already
14:06:28:21 adjourned but there is nobody present for citizen
14:06:31:15 comment additional.
14:06:32:03