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Tampa City Council
Thursday, February 7, 2008
9:00 a.m. session

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09:03:17:21 [Sounding gavel]
09:03:18:19 >>CHAIRMAN: Tampa City Council is called to order.
09:03:20:03 The chair will yield to Mr. Charlie Miranda.
09:03:23:06 >> As we know, the month of February is recognized
09:03:28:27 nationwide as black history month.
09:03:30:18 And in honor of the city's 20th annual black
09:03:33:06 history celebration, it gives me great pleasure to
09:03:36:07 introduce the chairperson and president of the city's
09:03:39:19 black history committee, Bettye Green Johnson, who will
09:03:43:03 be providing the invocation this morning.
09:03:45:13 Betty has worked with the city utilities accounting
09:03:48:03 division for the past 35 years.
09:03:52:01 Five years ago she was approached by Bobby Bowden.
09:03:54:27 That's the real Bobby Bowden, not the coach.
09:04:00:10 And he was a former community affairs director to serve

09:04:03:21 as chairperson of the black history month committee.
09:04:07:00 She has done an outstanding job ever since she became
09:04:10:13 that chairperson.
09:04:11:18 Please let's stand for the invocation and remain
09:04:13:28 standing for the pledge of allegiance.
09:04:21:03 >>> Thank you, councilman Miranda.
09:04:23:12 Before I give the invocation, let me say a special
09:04:25:28 thank you to all of the City Council members that were
09:04:28:03 present at our 20th annual black history
09:04:30:21 celebration on February 1st and to all of the
09:04:33:28 people all over the city that came out as well.
09:04:37:15 May we pray.
09:04:39:27 Giving reverence to the spirit. We thank you now for
09:04:43:18 all that you have done.
09:04:44:15 We thank you for what you are going to do.
09:04:47:00 Bless each City Council member and all of the
09:04:50:15 constituencies in the various districts.
09:04:52:19 Bless the leader of this nation.
09:04:56:03 Bless the leaders of our city.
09:04:58:18 Bless the leaders of the country.
09:05:01:01 Bless every young boy and girl all over the world, for
09:05:05:21 we know not what they stand in need of, but all
09:05:09:00 persons.
09:05:10:21 Thank you now for what we have accomplished, and thank
09:05:12:22 you for what we will accomplish.

09:05:15:09 Enlarge my territory.
09:05:19:18 Enlarge my territory.
09:05:20:21 Thank you for celebrating another month of black
09:05:23:09 history activities.
09:05:24:19 Thank you for all of the things that will be
09:05:26:28 accomplished here today.
09:05:28:24 Lead and guide us.
09:05:30:16 This we ask in your name.
09:05:32:09 Amen.
09:05:34:00 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:05:52:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
09:05:56:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:06:01:15 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:06:02:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:06:09:21 At this time we are going to go to Charlie Miranda who
09:06:12:06 is going to do a resolution.
09:06:16:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It gives me great pleasure to have
09:06:18:03 the opportunity hopefully to work in continuation of
09:06:23:18 passing this resolution unanimously.
09:06:27:18 I'm honored to present this resolution.
09:06:29:24 It reads, resolution of the Tampa City Council, Tampa,
09:06:33:18 Florida, to encourage the Yankee organization to rename
09:06:36:12 Legends Field in honor of George M. Steinbrenner, III,
09:06:41:00 providing an effective date.
09:06:41:21 Whereas George M. Steinbrenner has been a long time and

09:06:44:21 significant benefactor to our community, and in
09:06:48:00 participating with the City of Tampa and its residents,
09:06:50:24 and whereas during a long tenure of principal owner of
09:06:55:16 the New York Yankees, Mr. Steinbrenner has stepped
09:06:59:19 forward to assist organizations, individuals in need of
09:07:02:15 an adopted home, the City of Tampa.
09:07:04:27 Whereas Mr. Steinbrenner's many interests, guidance and
09:07:08:15 contributions include youth activity, education,
09:07:11:09 hospital, the underprivileged, law enforcement and the
09:07:14:06 arts, and whereas one of his many important endeavors
09:07:17:24 was the founding of the gold shield foundation, which
09:07:20:16 ensures the family of police officers and firemen
09:07:23:22 killed in the line of duty, will receive -- that died
09:07:28:15 in the line of duty will receive early financial
09:07:30:09 assistance and are guaranteed tuition, free college
09:07:34:18 education, and whereas it is evident that Mr.
09:07:37:09 Steinbrenner has stepped forward at critical times to
09:07:41:27 help influence and improve our community, and it's
09:07:46:00 incumbent upon us to encourage the New York Yankee
09:07:48:21 organization to rename New York Yankees Legends Field
09:07:52:06 in honor of an extraordinary gentleman, and it's a
09:07:55:09 pleasure and honor to do so.
09:07:57:04 In section 1, it is a pleasure and honor of the City
09:08:00:00 Council, City of Tampa, to encourage New York Yankee
09:08:03:22 organization to rename New York Legends Field in honor

09:08:07:15 of Mr. George Steinbrenner III.
09:08:11:24 Madam Chair, I want to just say one thing, if I may.
09:08:15:16 Not only has he done all these things, but I don't know
09:08:18:24 if it was 2000 or 2001 when the Yankees won the World
09:08:22:22 Series.
09:08:23:18 And he came back in the office before we did a
09:08:26:04 presentation here in the same chambers.
09:08:29:00 And I told him, in all the things that you've done,
09:08:32:18 there's one thing you'll never do.
09:08:35:21 And he said, what's that?
09:08:37:18 And I said, fire me.
09:08:39:06 And he said, no, there's two things I'll never do.
09:08:43:09 Hire you.
09:08:44:15 [ Laughter ]
09:08:44:24 So the man is quite a young man and he understands what
09:08:48:07 it's all about.
09:08:51:10 So the chair has signed this.
09:08:54:06 I hand the resolution to the city clerk so they can get
09:08:56:21 a resolution number on it.
09:08:58:07 We see in the audience that we have a member of the
09:09:00:04 Yankee organization, Mr. Phil McNiff.
09:09:04:06 Would you care to say a few words?
09:09:05:27 Please come forward.
09:09:08:15 >>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:09:10:27 On behalf of New York Yankees, I wish to thank the City

09:09:14:03 Council, also the county commissioners, for their
09:09:17:00 thoughtfulness regarding George.
09:09:20:18 Just the other day, I listened to George about the fact
09:09:25:06 that the City Council, the action being taken by the
09:09:27:15 City Council and the county commissioners.
09:09:30:27 He's a big tough man.
09:09:32:21 He had tears in his eyes.
09:09:34:06 He said, do you really mean that?
09:09:35:27 I said, yes, sir, they are.
09:09:37:06 And they are having a hearing this week.
09:09:40:07 I know he was very pleased by your actions, as are all
09:09:43:04 of the Yankee organization.
09:09:45:10 Thank you very much.
09:09:48:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have a motion on the floor.
09:09:50:15 I believe there's a second on the motion.
09:09:52:00 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
09:09:53:13 (Motion carried).
09:09:55:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to add that Mr.
09:09:57:07 Steinbrenner's philanthropy throughout the community
09:10:00:25 for children's activities, for cultural activities, for
09:10:03:27 youth sports, it's communicate-wide.
09:10:08:03 It's deep.
09:10:09:19 And we are so grateful for his generosity to our
09:10:13:15 community.
09:10:13:24 This is the least we can do.

09:10:15:15 And it's really fun to see former council member
09:10:18:16 Ferlita.
09:10:19:09 Thank you for coming here and co-sponsoring this.
09:10:26:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Ferlita, you had a resolution
09:10:31:10 you passed.
09:10:34:01 The other government.
09:10:34:27 >>> Rose Ferlita.
09:10:37:09 It's nice to be here this morning.
09:10:38:19 For the record, rose Ferlita, Hillsborough County
09:10:40:22 commission.
09:10:41:24 It's obviously my pleasure to be here this morning.
09:10:46:00 And supporting the renaming of the Legends Field for
09:10:48:03 George Steinbrenner III.
09:10:50:18 Very briefly, the history.
09:10:51:21 Obviously I'm happy to be here with my friend Phil
09:10:55:16 McNiff who is George's right hand and very close friend
09:10:59:00 of George's.
09:11:00:01 Several months ago we did talk about the possibility of
09:11:01:28 doing this and renaming it and considering it.
09:11:04:18 And once we had discussed it we would go forward with
09:11:07:00 that.
09:11:07:09 I thought it would be appropriate to ask the City
09:11:09:00 Council to partner about us.
09:11:10:25 So we invited Charlie to lunch and certainly he was
09:11:13:24 more than agreeable to support us on this side in terms

09:11:16:09 of city support.
09:11:18:22 Charlie read some of the things that George has done.
09:11:21:00 And certainly, if I tried to do the same, Madam
09:11:23:09 Chairman, I would certainly disrupt your agenda this
09:11:25:24 morning.
09:11:26:06 There are too many things to mention.
09:11:28:03 Beginning with the gold shield foundation of which he
09:11:30:19 was a founder, and a member of many, many years and
09:11:34:00 very proud to be so.
09:11:35:03 And it went on from there.
09:11:37:01 Linda, you're right, children's issues, charity issues,
09:11:40:03 to any kind of hardship issues, George Steinbrenner was
09:11:42:27 there.
09:11:44:07 And just for the listening public, I know that we know,
09:11:47:03 but the Yankee organization has the right, has the
09:11:51:12 opportunity to rename that stadium if they so wish.
09:11:53:15 But they will not do that because of the fact that they
09:11:55:28 felt it was more appropriate before doing that, they
09:11:59:10 would have community support.
09:12:00:15 Obviously by your endorsing of that resolution and by
09:12:03:12 the action we took yesterday, our endorsements solidify
09:12:07:22 the fact that this community is grateful for all the
09:12:10:01 things that George Steinbrenner has done.
09:12:12:24 Yesterday at BOCC my colleagues asked to support a
09:12:18:10 similar resolution that dealt with the renaming.

09:12:20:10 Obviously I got 100% unanimous support.
09:12:22:13 I have a copy for the record for the clerk.
09:12:24:01 And certainly I'm just simply here to endorse what you
09:12:26:27 are doing.
09:12:27:18 Thank you for what you are doing.
09:12:28:22 And by the way, I did ask our chairman Mr. Hagan to
09:12:32:24 join me.
09:12:33:09 He had a conflict with the Aviation Authority but he
09:12:35:18 sends his support as well.
09:12:36:22 And I think the best way to close this, because I don't
09:12:39:16 need to ask for your consideration, you have already
09:12:41:12 taken that action, is by what Phil said to me, very
09:12:46:00 contemplating and very patiently, he went through this
09:12:51:12 process within the last few months and he beside,
09:12:53:24 rosy -- that's what he calls me -- I thank you for what
09:12:56:25 you have done and what Hillsborough County has done,
09:12:59:00 what the city does, because this is the right thing to
09:13:02:04 do.
09:13:02:13 And this absolutely is the right thing to do, to be
09:13:05:09 able to thank George in our own way for what he has
09:13:07:18 done in our community.
09:13:08:22 Nice to be here.
09:13:10:13 Thank you very much.
09:13:12:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Ferlita, it's good to have you here.
09:13:16:12 I'm glad you brought it over to City Council.

09:13:18:16 We love Mr. Steinbrenner like you say.
09:13:20:24 He's done so many good things for this community.
09:13:22:21 All you have to do is call him up or write him a
09:13:25:03 letter.
09:13:25:18 He's not going to say no.
09:13:27:00 Because I had experience with a lot of people who
09:13:29:00 needed help.
09:13:29:27 Anything that helps the community, weighs there for me,
09:13:33:13 and one thing I really enjoy when he does that, all the
09:13:42:22 public schools, private schools, that is the biggest
09:13:44:21 event he has and that is wonderful.
09:13:46:06 And I hope that will continue on and on.
09:13:48:24 And I would like to say thank you again over in the
09:13:54:03 county commission and bringing it to Mr. Charlie
09:13:56:16 Miranda and making sure it is done.
09:13:58:13 >>> It is nice to partner with the city and work
09:14:01:04 together as opposed to separately.
09:14:02:24 Thank you very much.
09:14:05:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Did you have something?
09:14:06:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: She says she has a great fast ball.
09:14:12:18 So I would like to maybe offer her an opportunity to
09:14:15:18 pitch off the mound, see how strong she really is.
09:14:18:19 In fact, this is the first park in the city with county
09:14:23:03 cooperation we named it after a city resident.
09:14:30:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just think it's a great idea,

09:14:34:12 Charlie, and Rose, and Phil.
09:14:38:12 I met Mr. Steinbrenner a couple of years ago, and I
09:14:41:16 told him that I had always been a Yankees fan ever
09:14:44:10 since I was a little boy, the first game I ever went
09:14:47:13 to, my grandfather took me to.
09:14:49:10 And it turns out that he's a fan of City Council.
09:14:57:18 He told me he watches City Council periodically, and he
09:15:01:09 said he finds this rather interesting.
09:15:05:15 If he's watching, we send him our best.
09:15:12:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think the sentiments can be echoed
09:15:14:19 across the community by elected officials and those who
09:15:17:00 know Mr. Steinbrenner into the years, and truly he has
09:15:21:12 been a great contributor to sports and the culture,
09:15:26:21 arts and all of that.
09:15:27:21 I think the most important thing is that he's not
09:15:35:25 seeking recognition, not seeking any plaques, but the
09:15:38:25 fact that what he's doing helps so many other people.
09:15:42:06 And I'm a firm believer as you give from your heart, as
09:15:45:13 you give, it comes back to you.
09:15:47:01 And so today we salute him, we him today for what he
09:15:53:12 has done for this community.
09:15:56:13 >>> Rose Ferlita.
09:15:58:21 I was just thinking about a funny story about John ever
09:16:01:06 since he grew up he was a Yankee fan, and so was I when
09:16:04:18 they used to train at the Al Lopez field with Casey

09:16:08:03 Stengle and Bobbie Richardson and Tony Kubick and that
09:16:12:00 deal.
09:16:12:12 One day I had problems with my computer and the Bright
09:16:14:27 House guy came into my home to fix it and I had nothing
09:16:18:07 but Yankee stuff in that room.
09:16:20:00 Obviously things that George Steinbrenner has signed.
09:16:24:15 And he said, wow, ma'am, he said, your husband is an
09:16:28:01 awfully big Yankees fan.
09:16:30:06 [ Laughter ]
09:16:30:19 And I said, son, your the old lady doesn't have a
09:16:39:10 husband.
09:16:39:21 That would be me.
09:16:40:15 So it's very fitting we present this today.
09:16:44:00 Thank you very much.
09:16:45:00 >> Thank you.
09:16:46:12 And thank you for coming down to accept this.
09:16:49:15 We know Mr. Steinbrenner will be very happy when you go
09:16:52:21 back and tell him that it passed.
09:16:54:22 We now go to our agenda.
09:16:58:27 Are we going to do Mr. Balsley now?
09:17:06:00 >> Dane Vaughan, contract administration.
09:17:08:01 I want to thank you for this opportunity to make a
09:17:10:01 presentation on the Curtis Hixon downtown waterfront
09:17:13:18 park.
09:17:14:09 Some of you may not know Thom personally.

09:17:17:27 I want to introduce him to you.
09:17:19:19 And I want to also express our appreciation to
09:17:23:03 adjusting your schedule to accommodate his travel

09:17:25:16 plans.
09:17:25:25 But Tom Balsley, of Tom Balsley and associates, will
09:17:31:10 give a presentation at this time.
09:17:35:01 >>> Good morning.
09:17:37:12 I'm delighted to be here.
09:17:39:06 As some of you know, I was hired a few years ago to
09:17:44:04 help bring this vision of a great new downtown park on
09:17:47:04 the river for Tampa into a reality, and I'm here today
09:17:51:04 to show you the progress that we have been making.
09:17:56:19 So with that, I am going to start with a video that is
09:17:59:07 sort of a fly-to or fly-over depending on your
09:18:03:16 perspective of the park as it's developing, and then
09:18:06:18 we'll go into a PowerPoint after that.
09:18:17:03 There was a sound track that came with this and I am
09:18:51:28 going to spare you of that.
09:18:54:00 Sort of elevator music.
09:18:56:13 And that is the future of that great site for downtown
09:20:04:27 Tampa.
09:20:05:19 Now, gentlemen, if you could start the PowerPoint in
09:20:09:12 the other room.
09:20:11:21 Okay.
09:20:12:01 So this is the plan for the park that we developed, and

09:20:16:21 if you haven't seen the presentation, it's been very
09:20:18:27 carefully conceived to make sure that this is an active
09:20:22:07 park 24/7, 12 months a year that will be a very active,
09:20:27:15 lively, urban downtown venue or place where Tampa can
09:20:30:18 celebrate its next Super Bowl victory or other great
09:20:35:10 events that you have in mind for yourselves.
09:20:39:21 It really consists of one large great green lawn, parts
09:20:43:10 of the slope, other parts are level to give the
09:20:46:15 flexibility for those, what we hope will be two great
09:20:51:07 museums, the Museum of Art and the children's museum
09:20:53:28 coming in the future, as well as park buildings and
09:20:57:10 cafes and visitor centers, and a waterfront restaurant.
09:21:03:00 All of these elements adding activity to the park.
09:21:08:24 As we get closer, this is a view of the plaza at Ashley
09:21:14:07 street, with its very active, lively, dynamic
09:21:17:15 fountains, and tall pylons that mark this part of the
09:21:26:22 street and serve as a gateway to Tampa as people are
09:21:29:06 moving into town.
09:21:29:28 This will be the view as you are moving onto the
09:21:32:03 sidewalk of Ashley and approaching the fountain plaza.
09:21:36:03 As you can see the great unfolding of the river beyond
09:21:41:15 that.
09:21:42:03 As you get closer, the individual areas, urban dog run
09:21:46:13 for new residents that we expect will be coming into
09:21:48:16 the city, and their dogs, as well as obviously a

09:21:52:12 children's play area where families can come and let
09:21:55:09 this park be a destination for children and family
09:21:57:28 activity, as well as a spillover area for the
09:22:01:09 children's museum when it comes to this site as well.
09:22:08:13 The whole park has been designed as one great urban
09:22:12:13 stage.
09:22:13:09 There are terraces of lawns that overlook gardens and
09:22:17:00 these great open lawn areas that will house these
09:22:19:09 events as well.
09:22:20:27 And down at the riverwalk, the riverwalk culminates at
09:22:24:24 this point as I think the mayor called it the crown
09:22:27:27 jewel of the riverwalk, with a wonderful mist fountain
09:22:31:16 that glows in the evening and is a wonderful place for
09:22:34:27 children to come down and run through the mist and
09:22:37:00 provides that wonderful animation, a low-level
09:22:39:09 animation, the views of the university of Tampa beyond
09:22:43:00 are unobstructed.
09:22:44:12 Just beyond you can see the cafe, Albert Alfonzo is
09:22:49:27 here today to help me describe these architectural
09:22:52:03 elements.
09:22:52:21 So I invite Albert to step up, please.
09:22:56:28 >>> I'll be short.
09:22:58:18 Good morning.
09:23:00:27 Just wanted to let you guys know that the elements are
09:23:07:09 really support elements, architectural elements, they

09:23:10:03 are multitasking and the visitors center is also a
09:23:15:04 sculptural piece.
09:23:16:10 We call it the large pebble that acts similar to any of
09:23:22:15 the arts piece in millennium park.
09:23:26:06 It's a visitor center that people will go to.
09:23:28:12 There will be a big model of the City of Tampa inside.
09:23:31:06 And it's also a marker that really gives a nice counter
09:23:34:13 point of the sculpture piece in the park.
09:23:36:24 Along the south edge, we have the pavilion space where
09:23:40:22 there will be bike rentals and whatnot, and culminates
09:23:45:03 down with the restaurant down at the waterfront of the
09:23:47:15 park.
09:23:48:12 Then coming around, there is a little kiosk down there
09:23:51:18 that supports that mist fountain that Tom described.
09:23:56:28 Also the sculpture element that is doing a little bit
09:23:59:13 of multitasking trying to get some sculpture in the
09:24:02:00 park and letting the architecture act as sculpture.
09:24:05:27 So with that I'll turn it back over to Tom for the rest
09:24:09:18 of the presentation.
09:24:13:27 >>> Thank you, Albert.
09:24:15:06 What I would like to do, for some reason in this
09:24:17:12 PowerPoint we didn't get this beautiful rendering, and
09:24:23:12 I wanted to share this with you.
09:24:25:21 This would be a view through the pylon as cross the
09:24:28:12 plaza and again down to the park.

09:24:30:15 So hopefully, it's in view of the audience as well so
09:24:37:15 you can both appreciate this.
09:24:39:06 And I wanted to talk with you just a little bit about
09:24:43:22 the site plan and maybe I can go back to -- would you
09:24:47:16 turn the PowerPoint back on?
09:24:49:09 I wanted to walk through the park plan with you and
09:24:52:21 describe those elements that we currently have funding
09:25:01:09 for.
09:25:02:24 The full buildout shows us a pier extending out into
09:25:06:28 the river and all the architectural elements that
09:25:09:15 Albert described.
09:25:12:06 The first phase of the park construction, with that
09:25:17:21 money we will be able to afford the fountain at Ashley
09:25:20:22 street, but not the fountain at the riverwalk.
09:25:23:06 We will be able to afford the cafe kiosk down at the
09:25:26:27 riverwalk.
09:25:27:18 It's important to have an element of activity down
09:25:29:24 there.
09:25:31:00 We will be able to afford the visitor center, but we
09:25:35:12 will not be able to afford the long park building that
09:25:38:27 will have the park offices and the cafe and the bike
09:25:42:03 rentals.
09:25:42:25 Of course, the waterfront restaurant will come later
09:25:45:10 with a concessionaire.
09:25:47:22 And the pylons will not come in the first stage either.

09:25:51:15 Of course these are the candles and the icing that I
09:25:55:01 think are very important to the park's ultimate
09:25:57:21 success, total vision.
09:25:58:18 So I hope we will find a way to bring that funding
09:26:01:24 forward, and our team is continuing to do value
09:26:05:18 engineering to see if there's more ways that we can
09:26:08:09 afford more of these things in this first round.
09:26:11:03 But it's a tough fight for us with the available funds.
09:26:15:01 We are going to have a great park.
09:26:17:03 It's just going to miss a few of these elements but the
09:26:20:18 important thing is the overall park plan has been done,
09:26:22:25 the places for these elements are in place, the designs
09:26:25:27 and the detailing for those elements are in place.
09:26:28:09 So it's just a matter of the funding coming to get them
09:26:31:03 into place at a later date.
09:26:34:24 That concludes my presentation.
09:26:38:12 Thank you.
09:26:39:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
09:26:41:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
09:26:42:18 Thank you, Mr. Balsley.
09:26:44:12 And David and the rest of the staff who has been
09:26:46:21 working on this.
09:26:47:16 Just a couple of questions.
09:26:48:18 I haven't had a chance to attend the earlier
09:26:51:06 presentations, so excuse my ignorance on this.

09:26:54:12 But in regard to the Tampa sign, I mean actually
09:27:01:21 spelling out Tampa, what is the thought process?
09:27:04:24 Do we have an identity crisis or anything?
09:27:09:19 >>> No.
09:27:10:21 It's really a multi-purple empty and one that I think
09:27:13:01 is very important.
09:27:13:24 And let me walk you through what the purposes are.
09:27:16:15 Certainly it is to serve as the gateway, announcement,
09:27:20:27 a portal, if you will, to visitors coming into town.

09:27:23:12 This is the center.
09:27:24:25 This is downtown Tampa.
09:27:26:07 I think the park is doing that by being a park.
09:27:31:03 There's been this sort of -- the city has lacked a
09:27:34:21 sense that this is the place, this is the center, and
09:27:37:00 we hope the park will do that, and these pylons do that
09:27:40:18 graphically and architecturally as people are moving
09:27:42:21 in.
09:27:43:18 They are also wired, if you will, to receive multimedia
09:27:49:13 work, at a later date, so we can actually announce
09:27:52:12 events for people coming and going from Tampa.
09:27:54:18 So they are intended to also do that either in the more
09:27:58:25 conventional kind of banner applications to them or
09:28:03:07 internally with multimedia displays.
09:28:05:12 So not only are they announcing downtown, but they are
09:28:08:15 also announcing all the great events that we imagine

09:28:11:13 will be coming here in downtown, not just for the park,
09:28:14:04 but also downtown events in general.
09:28:21:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The second question is what they
09:28:23:18 described as deck, the wooden deck things out there in
09:28:27:25 the upper part of the park?
09:28:29:15 >>> Yes.
09:28:29:28 >> What's that about?
09:28:30:28 >>> Okay.
09:28:33:00 What we have is half of it is sloping.
09:28:38:00 It's a 5% slope, which means that the pads along the
09:28:41:18 edge of that lawn are ADA accessible paths.
09:28:46:03 And they are not really ramps.
09:28:47:24 They are sloping paths.
09:28:48:24 They are great for people with disabilities to move up
09:28:51:03 and down from that one level of the park to the other.
09:28:53:21 They are also great for vehicles to move up and down
09:28:56:03 and to bring staging event down to the stage or set up
09:28:58:27 for rent so they are perfect for that.
09:29:02:18 And that slope was kind of defined by the gradient that
09:29:06:09 we were looking towards.
09:29:07:13 Within that slope, we understand people occupy slopes
09:29:10:21 sometimes, but what we can do is provide level areas
09:29:14:07 within those slopes so that if after a rain, or for
09:29:17:21 people that don't want to be sitting on a slope, they
09:29:19:22 can actually occupy one of those decks.

09:29:22:15 Sort of what we call family terraces, where families or
09:29:25:25 groups or office workers can kind of collect out on
09:29:29:27 those decks and occupy the slope and occupy without
09:29:34:09 actually being on a lawn, on a sloping grass lawn.
09:29:37:22 They also have light in the forward end of them so it's
09:29:41:24 a fairly dramatic wash of light from each of them.
09:29:45:12 We think there are dramatic elements that just bring
09:29:48:22 that higher level of architectural interest to the
09:29:51:18 slope.
09:29:51:27 >> And the lower part is pretty much flat?
09:29:55:00 >> The lower part is flat, for offering all kinds of
09:29:59:00 opportunities for events.
09:30:00:12 >> Somebody mentioned budget before.
09:30:02:18 Where are we at, David, in regard to proposed budget
09:30:10:01 for this?
09:30:11:21 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Public works utilities.
09:30:15:06 We have $15 million.
09:30:16:12 The amount of money for this space, one will be about
09:30:19:24 12.5 million.
09:30:21:03 And then there are other fees to be paid on top of
09:30:24:03 that.
09:30:24:12 But direct expenses for this part of the project is
09:30:27:09 about $12.5 million.
09:30:29:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And that's including the architect,
09:30:32:10 designers, or not?

09:30:39:25 >>> Marked up to the 15.
09:30:41:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Balsley.
09:30:44:00 It's good to see you.
09:30:45:06 I'm sorry we didn't have a chance to talk previously.
09:30:49:21 I think that the -- this is very exciting.
09:30:53:24 I know that our public arts committee, particularly our
09:30:57:06 lifetime Tampa group, is talking about the pylons,
09:31:00:00 perhaps make them more art, more of an art element.
09:31:03:27 So the electronics will be vertical, but -- and they
09:31:07:06 can have graphics that they can also be art, which
09:31:09:15 would be good.
09:31:10:12 And I hope that you will also look at opportunities for
09:31:15:19 what you call family pavilions to be as aesthetic as
09:31:21:21 possible.
09:31:22:00 I like the idea of the wash.
09:31:25:03 I love the mist thing.
09:31:26:12 I have seen that before.
09:31:27:09 And I know this is very awkward to build something when
09:31:29:22 you anticipated a budget and then it gets cut in half
09:31:33:04 and then things get put over to phase 2.
09:31:36:24 I don't know if this is a question for you or Mr.
09:31:41:22 Vaughan but how are we going to deal with things that
09:31:44:12 don't get built in phase 1, sort of turf until things
09:31:48:00 get built.
09:31:48:15 Is that how we are going to deal with it?

09:31:50:15 >>> Well in, some cases, for example, the park
09:31:52:16 building, it would be a turf area, waiting for the park
09:31:55:18 building to come.
09:31:56:27 In other cases, for example, the mist fountain down by
09:31:59:12 the riverwalk will be that rich paving material, and
09:32:03:09 those pavers would then be picked up and a fountain
09:32:05:16 would be installed after obviously it's not the ideal
09:32:08:12 way to do it, but we are making sure that the park
09:32:11:07 doesn't look like it's half finished.
09:32:12:27 >> That was my concern.
09:32:14:01 Thank you.
09:32:14:21 And that mist fountain, I think, will be a huge
09:32:17:13 attracter.
09:32:18:09 It's such a beautiful, interesting, provocative, you
09:32:22:19 know, presence.
09:32:23:24 That will be great.
09:32:24:16 And lastly, this is a question for Mr. Vaughan, I
09:32:28:16 guess.
09:32:29:00 What do we do with Kiley during this time?
09:32:31:18 >>> I should sit down.
09:32:36:13 [ Laughter ]
09:32:37:16 >>> Contract administration.
09:32:39:04 As you know, there is a pilot project underway through
09:32:46:16 the construction manager who will be constructed Kiley
09:32:50:00 as well as the park as well as the museum.

09:32:53:00 And we are continuing in that process.
09:32:56:10 We are continuing to look at repair methods and budget.
09:33:00:03 So certainly when that comes, it will come, we expect
09:33:05:25 to come back to you in March with an award for
09:33:09:06 construction of the park and the museum.
09:33:11:13 And the Kiley will come along as an amendment to that
09:33:14:24 when it's ready.
09:33:15:15 So there will be more discussion and more activities
09:33:18:27 related to that.
09:33:20:15 But we are still working on how to fix it.
09:33:22:21 >> When you come back in March, if you could be as
09:33:25:09 detailed as possible in your description of what it's
09:33:27:24 going to look like and what's going to be, you know,
09:33:31:16 perhaps an interim solution.
09:33:34:18 I just want to make sure that we don't preclude its
09:33:37:24 restoration.
09:33:39:03 I mean, that's the concern.
09:33:40:13 >>> Right.
09:33:41:01 >> So as Mr. Balsley said, he's dealing with two
09:33:47:27 things, with turf.
09:33:49:00 Whatever we can do to not -- to not allow us to -- as
09:33:53:15 we have more resources, to reinstall what we would
09:33:56:24 like.
09:33:58:00 That would be a real priority.
09:33:59:15 Thank you.

09:34:01:15 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Vaughan, your park benches,
09:34:05:25 are they going to go in on this first phase?
09:34:09:03 >>> The park benches?
09:34:11:03 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Are you going to have benches
09:34:12:10 there?
09:34:12:24 >>> Yes, there will be seating.
09:34:14:06 >> Are they going to be open or are they going to have
09:34:16:22 dividers on to the prevent people from sleeping in
09:34:18:28 those benches?
09:34:22:18 >>> Talking about the Promenade?
09:34:27:12 >>> What we do is design parks around the country so we
09:34:30:03 are very familiar with the kind of challenges that come
09:34:32:13 with urban parks.
09:34:33:21 So all the benches will have armrests, to be a
09:34:38:12 deterrent to sleeping.
09:34:39:18 But seating is not just in the form of the conventional
09:34:43:01 bench.
09:34:44:10 There are also tie-back lounge chairs and nothing you
09:34:47:00 could sit on, but a few people could sit together on.
09:34:50:07 And of course a whole series of seat walls, the walls
09:34:53:03 that create those down to the lawn, they are also
09:34:55:27 available for seating.
09:34:56:24 So there's a lot seating opportunities.
09:34:58:15 But where there's a bench, where we would normally find
09:35:02:07 some leisurely napping, they are designed with armrests

09:35:08:00 to deter that.
09:35:12:09 >>MARY MULHERN: I think it's fantastic that we have
09:35:20:06 this huge amount of space on the river, and that's
09:35:23:03 going to open up into the city.
09:35:28:15 I'm not too thrilled with what we are looking at here.
09:35:32:15 I'm glad to hear that the pylons aren't funded because
09:35:39:03 it doesn't look like a gateway, it looks like a barrier
09:35:42:03 to me, and I think -- and I know this isn't necessarily
09:35:45:28 you, I'm talking to our administration.
09:35:49:15 But I'm going to start with the pylons, because that's
09:35:52:19 the entry to the park.
09:35:53:22 And when this was sold to the city, the whole idea of
09:36:02:07 not building the former plan it with the problem
09:36:08:22 aesthetically was it was blocking the view of the
09:36:10:27 river.
09:36:11:13 And the idea that the mayor told us all about was that
09:36:16:24 you are going to open this view and open this river and
09:36:19:15 the park up to the city.
09:36:20:18 I just feel like those pylons, I don't get it.
09:36:23:15 So I hope that we can move those.
09:36:26:06 And I also think if we don't move them, they are either
09:36:29:06 going to be public art or they are going to be signage.
09:36:33:13 I think we need to make that determination.
09:36:37:15 And since you bring up millennium park, which is like,
09:36:41:18 of course, this incredible model that we don't, you

09:36:44:12 know, have nowhere near the budget for, what they did
09:36:49:27 for the entrance to that park was to make the art be
09:36:54:07 right there.
09:36:54:25 I mean, there's art along Michigan Avenue.
09:36:59:25 The great video things, which these may be reminiscent
09:37:04:00 of.
09:37:04:12 But I think if it's not a piece of art that's designed
09:37:07:09 to be art, it's not going to work.
09:37:09:00 I really don't like those.
09:37:10:21 I'm also thinking when you look at millennium park,
09:37:16:09 maybe if you have the funding for the fountain here and
09:37:19:16 not the funding, if we have the funding for a mountain
09:37:22:07 on Ashley, down by the river, why don't you think about
09:37:26:24 putting the misters, participatory element up there by
09:37:33:27 Ashley?
09:37:35:04 So you can have a water element anyway, something that
09:37:38:03 would invite people into the park.
09:37:40:00 And I'm also really disappointed because I did have a
09:37:43:24 talk with our administration, and also talked with the
09:37:52:27 mayor who assured me she was going to have you go back
09:37:55:09 and look at this with the idea of having some shade.
09:37:58:19 Because I just think that the park is not going to
09:38:03:06 be -- cannot be successful in Tampa, in our weather, as
09:38:10:00 just a big, open lot.
09:38:12:03 I mean, the lawn idea is a nice idea.

09:38:16:27 In Tampa, it only works maybe three, four months out of
09:38:21:25 the year where anyone would even want to be out, and
09:38:25:27 even being out there, they aren't going to want to stay
09:38:28:03 out in the sun.
09:38:28:24 So I think we are losing what this could be, if you
09:38:31:06 think of like a Central Park, or, you know, an urban
09:38:35:09 park where people can go and play and sit and be in
09:38:38:24 shade.
09:38:39:03 It's got to have some shade.
09:38:40:27 And I hope we are going to revisit that.
09:38:48:16 There's just a lot that we can do.
09:38:49:27 The other thing -- and this is really maybe for Mr.
09:38:54:07 Daignault.
09:38:58:27 And what direction you have.
09:39:00:00 And I think we are going in the wrong direction.
09:39:03:24 We have got this huge lawn, and we don't have -- I
09:39:09:24 don't think we have reclaimed water set up there.
09:39:11:28 So I don't think we should even have a lawn there if we
09:39:14:22 don't have, you know, if it can't be a sustainable
09:39:18:15 thing.
09:39:20:27 As a park it should be green, and it should have, you
09:39:23:10 know, be cognizant of the fact that we have water
09:39:27:28 shortages, and we need to conserve our water.
09:39:30:21 So this doesn't make sense to me.
09:39:32:06 I'm wondering, also, if there's any native plant.

09:39:37:10 That's another thing about millennium park.
09:39:39:09 I just don't see any of the things that should be
09:39:42:12 incorporated into a 21st century park here.
09:39:45:09 I mean, are there native plants here, are the gardens
09:39:53:06 going to be -- I mean, I didn't see any gardens in this
09:39:56:07 rendering.
09:39:57:03 But what's the native plant component going to be?
09:40:00:21 >>> I would like to address each one of those.
09:40:05:18 And I think I was asked to rush through this
09:40:08:21 presentation, and I didn't give myself a chance to walk
09:40:13:00 you through all the elements.
09:40:14:12 And some of them are -- I can point to that will
09:40:17:06 directly respond to your comments.
09:40:19:03 So could I have the PowerPoint back up so I can point
09:40:22:06 to the plan?
09:40:25:06 Unfortunately, I don't have a pointer.
09:40:26:27 There we go.
09:40:29:00 First, I want to cite a couple of statistics that you
09:40:34:09 should be aware of there.
09:40:35:15 There's a 50% increase in trees in this park.
09:40:38:13 So we now have almost 300 trees.
09:40:43:21 150 of those 300 trees or even more are shade trees.
09:40:48:15 We probably added 50 shade trees to the plan in
09:40:52:06 response to comments that we have heard about the lack
09:40:54:00 of shade for the park.

09:40:55:00 So those shade trees are happening all along the edge
09:40:57:28 of the lawn, just like the great lawn in Central Park,
09:41:00:24 there's a great big open space, seating areas and paths
09:41:06:25 along.
09:41:07:19 So we have all the edges in these very dense shade tree
09:41:11:10 formations, not only along the lawn in the terrace
09:41:15:18 seating areas but also along the riverwalk.
09:41:17:19 So there is substantial amount of shade that's being
09:41:19:27 provided by the trees.
09:41:21:24 We also want to make sure that the first phase budget
09:41:25:24 included architectural shade.
09:41:27:09 So there's a trellis that would be along the front of
09:41:29:22 the new park building.
09:41:31:00 That would be over to the left.
09:41:33:12 Actually, I want to take you -- let's see if I can --
09:41:38:18 well, you can't see the new park building, the long
09:41:41:15 linear building that Albert pointed out, because we are
09:41:46:00 proposing a green roof for that building which is a
09:41:48:04 sustainable strategy for taking care of the roof
09:41:50:13 run-off water.
09:41:51:15 But along that building --
09:41:54:10 >> Where is that going to be?
09:41:55:16 Oh, you can't really point to it.
09:41:59:00 >>> Just to the north.
09:42:01:15 Going into the parking garage, running parallel to that

09:42:04:16 driveway, will be the long, linear park building that
09:42:07:15 will have the park offices, ultimately a cafe at the
09:42:10:18 end that's visible from Ashley, bike rentals,
09:42:13:15 et cetera. Along the front edge of that, just north of
09:42:16:03 that, and next to the double row of palm trees, is a
09:42:20:27 shade trellis with seating under it.
09:42:23:03 So even in the first phase we are going to have
09:42:25:01 architectural trellises providing that shade along that
09:42:29:13 edge.
09:42:30:00 And then let's not forget that all along the museum, we
09:42:35:01 have these spaces under the museum that have the shade
09:42:38:07 of the canopy of the museum on the north side of the
09:42:41:06 park as well.
09:42:41:27 So there's the architectural shade at both sides.
09:42:46:03 There's a shade structure proposed down by the
09:42:47:25 riverwalk that's part of that cafe.
09:42:56:00 This is the entire shade structure here with seating
09:42:59:06 under it next to the cafe.
09:43:00:27 This is the shade structure along here.
09:43:03:24 And then of course is the architectural shaded seating
09:43:07:21 you have here.
09:43:08:10 All along here are shade trees and shade trees, shade
09:43:12:00 trees, and shade trees.
09:43:14:06 All along those edges.
09:43:15:13 Those have all been added to bring that level of shade

09:43:18:09 to what we sort of respond to the message we heard.
09:43:23:07 You should also notice that there's almost an increase
09:43:25:27 of three acres of park space for this site, consisting
09:43:31:21 of obviously lawns planting and paved areas.
09:43:37:18 The fountain, at Ashley is an acceptable fountain, it
09:43:44:00 has been designed as a skim fountain, just a skim of
09:43:47:24 water used.
09:43:49:22 You know you can just walk right out onto that.
09:43:52:21 Do the same at Ashley.
09:43:54:01 It's a very acceptable fountain.
09:43:55:09 So it's available for people to sort of get in and play
09:43:59:03 with.
09:43:59:15 It's a different fountain than the mist fountain down
09:44:01:24 by the riverwalk.
09:44:02:18 We made sure that both were accessible.
09:44:04:18 One of the reasons we do that is because those
09:44:06:10 fountains can be turned off, and it's just pavement,
09:44:10:00 and they are available to set up for art fairs or all
09:44:13:13 kinds of events.
09:44:14:10 They don't inhibit the possibilities for events.
09:44:17:19 And that's really important, we think, for the urban
09:44:20:15 park.
09:44:22:27 Native plants.
09:44:23:25 We have native plants.
09:44:25:19 The trees that we are proposing, most are native.

09:44:29:03 All the lower level plants are native.
09:44:31:21 We are planting all along the northern end, a native
09:44:37:19 spartina.
09:44:40:04 We have been very careful to make sure that native
09:44:42:06 plants are a very important part of this park planting
09:44:47:09 pallet and of course been enhanced with some perennials
09:44:51:13 and annuals to bring color in the down period but I
09:44:55:28 think it's a very intensive pallet of native plant that
09:45:00:21 are part of this.
09:45:01:13 Of course you can go a little too far with the native
09:45:03:18 plant to the point where some people call it weeds and
09:45:06:27 seeds.
09:45:07:19 I can a sure you that millennium park is not planted
09:45:10:10 for the most part with native plants.
09:45:12:06 There's a lot of ornamental grasses in those gardens
09:45:15:06 but they are not necessarily native to Chicago.
09:45:17:27 >> But one of the really nice things they have are they
09:45:22:09 have huge areas that are native.
09:45:23:25 >> Yes, they do. And we'll have the same here.
09:45:29:27 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Let me just add, council members, we
09:45:38:09 have begun design to have reclaimed water both on
09:45:40:21 Bayshore and over to this park, and the riverwalk.
09:45:44:12 We have asked that the irrigation be separated from the
09:45:48:12 potable water and from the fountains in this design,
09:45:52:06 and we do intend to have reclaimed water into this

09:45:54:19 park.
09:46:01:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Speaking of water with, Brad in the
09:46:03:15 audience, I can't help but wonder, we have had issues
09:46:08:28 about fountains, public fountains, and how do you keep
09:46:11:09 them running when we have a water shortage?
09:46:15:13 Jackson comes to mind, that sort of thing.
09:46:17:15 Is the mist fountain and ultimately the other fountain
09:46:20:15 planned to be able to be operated on a recycling basis?
09:46:24:04 Will they be exempt from our water restriction?
09:46:27:21 >>> Well, again they can be shut off.
09:46:29:25 So they can be used, you know, at the time that you
09:46:32:24 want them to be there for the right effect.
09:46:35:21 I don't think they can be used with reclaimed water if
09:46:38:18 they are going to be --
09:46:40:12 >> Wouldn't want them to be used with reclaimed water,
09:46:42:18 but I guess I'm just wondering, have been we thought
09:46:44:27 about that, how are we dealing with that?
09:46:47:16 I see you have got some support over here.
09:46:52:01 >>> Both of those fountains are designed to be
09:46:55:03 interactive fountains so they will have the ability to
09:46:57:03 have the folks and the kids so they operate like our
09:47:01:13 pool.
09:47:01:27 That is the type of operation that would occur within
09:47:03:24 those two locations.
09:47:04:24 >> Is that exempt from our current ordinance?

09:47:07:24 >>> Yes.
09:47:16:13 >>MARY MULHERN: Mr. Balsley, were you done?
09:47:18:19 I'm sorry.
09:47:20:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just threw that in there.
09:47:21:19 >>> I guess I was done.
09:47:23:01 I thought you had another question.
09:47:26:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I do have a question for, I don't know,
09:47:28:15 maybe Mr. Daignault or for Karen.
09:47:34:25 I know with the museum plan, the art museum plans, you
09:47:39:18 went through all kinds of public input and
09:47:43:22 presentations.
09:47:45:07 Has it happened with the park?
09:47:47:06 >>> It has, yes.
09:47:53:00 We have had public input.
09:47:53:25 >> And with this latest sort of final -- has this been
09:48:02:15 presented? With all the changes that have happened?
09:48:05:09 Do you think maybe we could have a workshop or a public
09:48:08:09 meeting to talk about it?
09:48:11:12 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: We certainly can present it.
09:48:13:03 I mean, again.
09:48:14:24 But we are at the point of 100% design, construction
09:48:20:12 design drawings.
09:48:21:06 So the various elements that are not in phase 1
09:48:25:25 certainly could be discussed further, but the phase 1
09:48:29:07 pieces, again based on input that we had previously, is

09:48:35:06 we have gotten the approval to have it come to final
09:48:37:24 design.
09:48:38:06 And we have got the construction drawings.
09:48:41:03 Like we mentioned, like David mentioned, we have given
09:48:43:16 them to -- pricing them, we will have a guaranteed
09:48:49:28 price to you on March 20th for the park and the
09:48:52:09 museum.
09:48:56:27 >> Santiago Corrada, neighborhood administrator.
09:49:03:13 I attended most of those hearings and it was very hard
09:49:06:24 to get 100% consensus on what folks wanted to see.
09:49:10:27 Some are adamant about a great lawn for our gatherings.
09:49:13:27 Some of our art festivals want add great lawn to be
09:49:16:18 used.
09:49:17:04 Some of our special events venues were requesting a
09:49:19:18 great lawn to be used.
09:49:20:27 Others were more in the, we want a lot of shade and
09:49:23:24 that's why we were trying to accommodate both by having
09:49:26:22 the shade on the perimeters, with as well the great
09:49:29:09 open lawn.
09:49:29:22 In fact, coming just back from the Super Bowl, we are
09:49:33:01 going to need large spaces to have some of the events
09:49:36:06 that surround the Super Bowl.
09:49:38:03 Although this space won't be ready, but in the future,
09:49:41:01 those spaces are necessary.
09:49:43:00 We shifted many of our special events from this exact

09:49:46:09 location to Al Lopez park, and as many of you know,
09:49:50:12 Curtis Hixon park was a great special events venue.
09:49:53:10 So again when we had those public meetings, we had just
09:49:57:00 a lot of things thrown in.
09:49:58:19 We tried to accommodate as many of those as possible
09:50:01:16 with this design.
09:50:02:04 >>MARY MULHERN: I think that's one of the big questions
09:50:04:27 I have, though, and I would think the public might have
09:50:07:18 raised this, too, but you are talking about the Super
09:50:11:09 Bowl, which maybe we'll have every ten years, if we are
09:50:15:00 lucky, and Gasparilla art festival.
09:50:20:27 You are talking about trying to accommodate one event
09:50:23:12 as opposed to something that people who are living
09:50:25:24 downtown and working downtown are going to want to use
09:50:30:27 every day.
09:50:31:10 >> Well, I can tell you that we have over a thousand
09:50:35:25 events a year, and many request that site for those
09:50:39:01 events, and part of the success of this park will not
09:50:42:24 only be the residents that live around it but will also
09:50:45:12 be the activity that's going on there, to draw
09:50:47:21 residents to come out to that park.
09:50:49:12 So, you know, it's a balance.
09:50:51:00 It's a fine balance.
09:50:52:00 And I understand what you are saying, councilwoman, but
09:50:54:13 it's a fine balance with us, having the venues to

09:50:56:21 attract the people downtown and have those residents as
09:50:58:21 well enjoy those events at that park.
09:51:00:21 >> Right.
09:51:01:13 I think the people have been requesting it for years
09:51:04:04 because it's a bunch of cement.
09:51:05:24 It's easy to set things up on it.
09:51:08:03 So maybe that's just not the best place for, you know,
09:51:12:00 an art festival.
09:51:13:06 I actually enjoyed having it in the streets.
09:51:15:10 I think that's a great place.
09:51:17:15 But I don't know.
09:51:18:12 I would like more opportunity for the public to weigh
09:51:21:00 in on this, because it's going to be our big, you know,
09:51:24:25 you want to call it our Central Park.
09:51:26:21 I think we need to have some public input, and also the
09:51:30:27 fact that, you know, the funding is all up in the air,
09:51:34:00 and it gives us an opportunity to maybe rethink ooh
09:51:36:07 little bit what we want to do.
09:51:40:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In reference to your question, Mary,
09:51:44:21 we have not had this presented to the public.
09:51:47:00 I went to a downtown partnership breakfast the other
09:51:50:03 morning and everybody was saying they hadn't seen it.
09:51:53:04 So the public is eager to see this.
09:51:54:27 And your point is well taken.
09:51:57:09 With the lack of funding for phase 2, it gives us the

09:52:00:06 opportunity to improve, refine, get additional input on
09:52:05:22 the things to be funded by that.
09:52:08:01 So what I would do, Mr. Daignault, is encourage you,
09:52:10:28 and Mr. Balsley, to make a presentation to the downtown
09:52:14:09 partner, some kind of public meeting like you did
09:52:16:19 before, invite the downtown community, the entire
09:52:19:09 community, the downtown partnership, share with them
09:52:22:12 where we are, and I think it would be extremely helpful
09:52:25:21 to be able to look at the two phase 1 and phase 2 next
09:52:30:12 to each other and also a list so we can see which
09:52:32:24 things you are going ahead with now and which things
09:52:35:18 are in the future.
09:52:36:09 And, also, I have not seen any description of the
09:52:39:03 materials that have been specked.
09:52:43:04 I have been concerned.
09:52:43:24 I want to share this with council.
09:52:45:12 We have different designers for Ashley, the riverwalk
09:52:47:28 and this park, with Mr. Balsley going up in charge.
09:52:52:18 But I want to make sure in terms of materials,
09:52:55:19 lighting, plant materials and everything is very
09:52:57:28 seamless and complementary.
09:53:00:00 And I haven't seen any of that.
09:53:02:22 And I think it would be very helpful for all of us who
09:53:05:13 are really interested, that if you are ready to go,
09:53:08:28 then you figure those things out.

09:53:10:18 And I would love you to share them.
09:53:12:01 If you haven't figured them out then maybe would you
09:53:13:27 like some input.
09:53:15:06 Thank you.
09:53:15:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:53:17:12 We appreciate that.
09:53:18:10 Thank you, Mr. Balsley.
09:53:19:21 We appreciate having you here.
09:53:21:01 We now go to Mr. Shelby who is going to do our agenda.
09:53:33:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: We have a rather lengthy agenda today.
09:53:35:18 I refer you to the addendum.
09:53:37:00 There are three requests.
09:53:39:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead.
09:53:40:12 >>>
09:53:41:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: By council members for new business.
09:53:47:04 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a quorum.
09:53:49:12 Mr. Dingfelder is down there.
09:53:50:18 Go ahead.
09:53:52:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: We have three requests by council
09:53:53:27 members for new business that is not pertaining to this
09:53:57:28 particular agenda.
09:53:58:15 I don't see them here.
09:53:59:24 We can hold that to the end of the meeting and come
09:54:01:19 back to that, if you like.
09:54:03:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.

09:54:03:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With regard to the substitution items,
09:54:05:15 council, the clerk has received a request for the
09:54:07:27 substitute of an ordinance for item number 2.
09:54:10:21 I would ask that council receive that substitution.
09:54:15:03 If you wish to do it by motion now or you can do it at
09:54:17:09 the time, you can do it now.
09:54:19:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
09:54:21:00 (Motion carried).
09:54:21:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And -- the new agenda, there's also an
09:54:31:09 item 3.
09:54:36:19 The clean zone is item 3.
09:54:38:09 So that is also a substitution request for item 3 as
09:54:42:12 well.
09:54:42:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
09:54:44:03 >> Second.
09:54:44:15 (Motion carried).
09:54:46:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have a request, council, to add an
09:54:47:25 exhibit A to item number 69 of the agreement between
09:54:50:21 the City of Tampa and the greater Tampa Chamber of
09:54:52:22 Commerce.
09:54:53:06 You have received copies of those previously.
09:54:57:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
09:54:58:12 >> Second.
09:54:58:24 (Motion carried).
09:54:59:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: As a request from Jim Stefan to

09:55:04:10 substitute item number 59 to correct the scrivener's
09:55:07:24 error regarding numbers on the original resolution,
09:55:11:24 copy filed with the clerk.
09:55:12:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
09:55:16:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
09:55:17:28 Just a comment.
09:55:18:18 I was told that Jim Stefan had an appendectomy
09:55:21:27 yesterday and he's over at Tampa general.
09:55:23:18 So we all send our best to Jim for a speedy recovery.
09:55:27:06 I'm sure he's watching.
09:55:29:00 Let's hope not.
09:55:29:28 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
09:55:31:18 (Motion carried).
09:55:32:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, with regard to the
09:55:36:09 continuance or removal of items, item number 108,
09:55:39:27 regarding blue ribbon committee on the pipeline, that
09:55:43:09 is a request to have that item removed.
09:55:45:15 It was intended to have been removed previously, to
09:55:47:13 have item 108 removed from the agenda.
09:55:49:18 >> So moved.
09:55:50:15 >> Second.
09:55:52:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Question on the motion?
09:55:53:24 Mr. Dingfelder?
09:55:55:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to hear, I guess, Mr.
09:55:58:12 Scott, first, and then see where we are going on it.

09:56:02:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: First of all, actually oversight should
09:56:06:07 be removed awhile back because the city attorney stood
09:56:08:19 up when I brought this to the board and said all
09:56:11:22 negotiation franchise done by the administration and
09:56:16:16 the board only gets this once it's completed.
09:56:18:27 However, so I want to move for that reason.
09:56:22:24 Second thing, my understanding, this has been tabled.
09:56:26:27 I got a call that this has been tabled, not one of the
09:56:33:09 options, okay?
09:56:34:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And there were some phone calls made
09:56:37:09 to me.
09:56:38:06 I just didn't get a chance to return them.
09:56:40:06 But what exactly does "tabled" mean?
09:56:44:00 The concern I have about this project is that it's sort
09:56:46:09 of lingering, let's say hanging over many
09:56:49:07 neighborhoods, sort of like an ax or guillotine, and
09:56:54:21 all of our offices are getting phone calls periodically
09:56:57:10 when the issue pops up and gets on the agenda.
09:56:59:19 Then it goes away and then it comes back.
09:57:02:00 And, you know, are we going to deal with it?
09:57:04:16 Are we not going to deal with it?
09:57:06:01 Is it going to go away or what?
09:57:07:25 So do we have an answer to that?
09:57:09:22 Can we get an answer from staff, or from the petitioner
09:57:13:16 on it?

09:57:14:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Reverend Scott.
09:57:15:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Again, you heard the attorney stood up
09:57:18:28 when I raised the issue but pointing a blue ribbon
09:57:22:06 committee.
09:57:22:25 This is beyond our purview, that we have no authority
09:57:26:01 at this point, because under the administration for
09:57:28:24 negotiations, and that when it comes to us, once that
09:57:32:15 is done it will be placed on our agenda, and at that
09:57:35:09 time we can take a look at it.
09:57:37:03 So that was number one.
09:57:38:12 Number two is, again, I got a phone call saying pretty
09:57:43:22 much that this is going away.
09:57:46:22 Okay.
09:57:48:24 That's all I can say at this point, is they didn't call
09:57:51:15 anybody else, I don't feel.
09:57:52:18 >>CHAIRMAN: I got the same thing, removed from the
09:57:54:21 agenda, and that was it.
09:57:56:27 It's going to be dead.
09:57:58:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's way was told.
09:58:00:00 >>GWEN MILLER: So if it's removed from the agenda and
09:58:01:24 it's dead, it has to come back to us before it's put on
09:58:05:03 the agenda.
09:58:05:18 They can't cannot just come back.
09:58:09:03 Mrs. Mulhern.
09:58:10:10 >>MARY MULHERN: I had some things I want to say about

09:58:12:25 it but I don't think this is the time.
09:58:15:06 We can bring it up in new business.
09:58:19:06 Mr. Dingfelder, some discussion?
09:58:21:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The only thing I would like to say,
09:58:23:12 if it's dead, if it's dead, that's fine.
09:58:27:06 Leave it dead for now and it's going to be revived in
09:58:30:09 another four to six months, with some other route and
09:58:33:21 some other neighborhoods and this and that, then I
09:58:35:24 think we need to know about it.
09:58:37:15 So, you know, I don't know.
09:58:41:25 It concerns me.
09:58:42:21 I think if it's dead, let's put a stake through it and
09:58:46:09 be done with it.
09:58:46:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's hear from Mr. Smith.
09:58:48:12 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
09:58:50:18 There have been no discussions and no negotiation was
09:58:53:24 the original applicant for quite awhile.
09:58:56:15 Exactly what they intend to do, they haven't shared
09:58:58:21 with us, but they are not going forward.
09:59:00:13 So at this juncture all we can do is cease what we were
09:59:03:24 doing, which was apparently there was some discussions
09:59:06:09 with staff regarding the logistical, structural and
09:59:10:13 physical complications of the various routes that may
09:59:12:24 have been considered.
09:59:13:22 I don't know whether they'll come back at some time in

09:59:16:00 the future.
09:59:17:18 You should probably assume they will.
09:59:19:00 But right now, there's no further discussions with the
09:59:21:18 city.
09:59:24:06 So we have nothing going on.
09:59:26:06 I don't know what I'm going to do about that voice.
09:59:30:00 At this juncture the way it works under our code is we
09:59:32:04 have a permit process.
09:59:33:09 So when you apply for a permit, and if the activity
09:59:37:27 that is the nature of the franchise, we then look at
09:59:40:24 the franchise ordinance and we'll come back through
09:59:43:22 this council for that approval process.
09:59:45:21 But there's nothing happening.
09:59:48:18 >>CHAIRMAN: We have a motion and second to remove item
09:59:50:25 108 from the agenda.
09:59:51:18 (Motion carried).
09:59:53:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, item 134 needs to be removed
09:59:57:06 because the plan amendment was --
10:00:01:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
10:00:02:15 >> Second.
10:00:02:25 (Motion carried).
10:00:04:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item 137 cannot be heard because of
10:00:06:00 the affidavit is not filed.
10:00:08:24 Petitioner would like to set a new date for the
10:00:11:27 hearing.

10:00:12:06 And I believe Mr. Michelini is present.
10:00:16:22 Here he is.
10:00:17:21 David, did you wish --
10:00:20:15 >>> requesting April 3rd at 9:30 a.m. time certain.
10:00:24:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
10:00:25:15 >> Second.
10:00:25:27 (Motion carried).
10:00:26:15 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Thank you.
10:00:28:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, there has been a request by
10:00:30:27 the chair to move, or reorder the agenda so that items
10:00:35:27 116 to 133, the second readings, will be heard prior to
10:00:39:28 staff reports, in that there are a lot of second
10:00:42:03 readings, council can move through them quickly and
10:00:44:15 clear the room of a lot of people who can get back to
10:00:48:24 business.
10:00:50:12 If the chair would ask to do that.
10:00:52:07 Also, council, there's been a request, a memo from Mr.
10:00:54:27 Caetano to have item 26 pulled for staff to discuss, if
10:00:59:22 we could have that moved to staff reports.
10:01:02:07 There's also another item that goes with it which is
10:01:04:03 the budget resolution.
10:01:08:01 Mr. Territo is looking for that.
10:01:13:15 26 is the budget.
10:01:18:00 It is number 36.
10:01:33:04 DMV department.

10:01:34:12 It's items 25 and 36.
10:01:37:12 I'm sorry, 26 --
10:01:41:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What about them?
10:01:42:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Pulling them, to have staff come over.
10:01:44:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That can be perhaps under staff
10:01:46:24 reports.
10:01:46:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Shelby, I sent a late night
10:01:52:06 e-mail about item number 16.
10:01:54:15 Just pull it for discussion.
10:01:55:22 >> Did you want a member of staff present or just a
10:01:58:09 separate vote?
10:01:59:06 >> I can discuss those two items.
10:02:04:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want item 16 under staff
10:02:06:15 report or under committee reports?
10:02:11:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Report.
10:02:17:10 That's it?
10:02:17:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe that's it, council.
10:02:20:16 Unless there are any other changes.
10:02:25:04 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
10:02:26:00 I would like to pull number 58 for staff report.
10:02:30:09 I didn't know Jim Stefan was in the hospital.
10:02:32:24 But I think someone from his staff, I was going to ask
10:02:38:01 to come over.
10:02:38:24 I just wanted a breakdown of what's totaling that
10:02:42:24 amount.

10:02:46:03 >> CDBG?
10:02:48:13 Mrs. Mulhern, your request then is to pull item 58 for
10:02:52:00 staff to be present?
10:02:54:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
10:02:55:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is that a motion?
10:02:57:21 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
10:02:58:07 >> Second.
10:02:58:21 (Motion carried).
10:02:59:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Seeing no other changes, Madam
10:03:01:15 Chair --
10:03:02:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Need to approve the agenda.
10:03:05:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
10:03:05:24 >> Second.
10:03:06:06 (Motion carried).
10:03:06:24 >>CHAIRMAN: We now go to -- does anybody request
10:03:12:12 reconsideration for legislative matter?
10:03:15:12 Anyone want to request reconsideration for a
10:03:17:19 legislative matter?
10:03:19:09 We now go to our audience portion.
10:03:21:15 Anyone to speak on any item on the agenda that is not
10:03:23:21 set for public hearing.
10:03:29:27 >>> Good morning, council.
10:03:37:12 Can you hear me?
10:03:39:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
10:03:39:16 >>> My name is Linda Hewett, I live at 4219 River Hills

10:03:43:10 Drive.
10:03:44:09 I sent you an e-mail yesterday and a comment I would
10:03:48:21 like to make and I would like to read them to you so
10:03:51:00 that I can get them across for you.
10:03:54:21 I have a picture.
10:03:58:12 >>GWEN MILLER: It will come up.
10:04:00:24 >>> Here we go.
10:04:07:00 This is the house at the corner of the right-of-way in
10:04:08:27 front of our house.
10:04:10:24 And you see going around the curve.
10:04:13:21 We have had people pass us on that curve.
10:04:20:12 This is coming from the other direction.
10:04:24:16 We have had people pass us on that curve.
10:04:32:12 Therefore, addressing you this morning is bringing it
10:04:35:12 back 20 years ago in 1988, we brought this before
10:04:39:10 council and asked that we have speed bumps put on our
10:04:42:22 road to slow the traffic down.
10:04:44:25 At that time, the council passed it but the division of
10:04:52:15 public works sent an objection letter, and the mayor
10:04:55:19 vetoed it.
10:04:57:09 We have a number of new neighbors who are very
10:04:59:07 disappointed.
10:05:01:01 They are thinking because they bought a home on a
10:05:02:27 residential street that it would be quieter, and that
10:05:06:24 the traffic would be controlled.

10:05:09:22 The only time we usually have police now are when we
10:05:12:06 call them.
10:05:14:00 And they are constantly stopping drivers because they
10:05:16:19 pull into Aileen next to our house.
10:05:22:24 I'm sure that those are available for you to look at.
10:05:28:16 We have numerous concerns at this time that does not
10:05:31:07 allow to be fully explored here.
10:05:34:03 We are asking that speed tables be installed to slow
10:05:37:15 traffic.
10:05:37:27 30 miles per hour is too fast.
10:05:39:04 We appreciate you bringing this up.
10:05:41:06 We appreciate your taking your time to everyone talk
10:05:43:19 about this.
10:05:45:18 30 miles per hour is too fast for the topography of
10:05:49:00 River Hills Drive.
10:05:50:18 But it's winding and there are several areas where one
10:05:52:22 cannot see on coming traffic.
10:05:55:00 Especially attempting to back out of a driveway.
10:06:00:03 We already know from the article in the Tampa Tribune
10:06:02:18 yesterday that Mr. Rodriguez is recommending that this
10:06:07:09 be -- we have discussed it with several people in the
10:06:12:16 neighborhood and they have been polite.
10:06:13:16 We asked to improve the situation which is what we are
10:06:16:19 doing.
10:06:17:00 However, they continue to respond, river hills is a

10:06:19:27 collector, which we have asked repeatedly to have
10:06:23:10 explained to us how and when this occurred, and who is
10:06:26:18 involved in the process.
10:06:28:24 We knew nothing of it until our 1988 rejection letter.
10:06:32:12 Who represented the property owners who live on the
10:06:34:06 street?
10:06:36:03 We have yet to receive apply.
10:06:38:27 While researching the documents to which Mr. Rodriguez
10:06:41:22 referred his report on October 4th of 2007, we
10:06:44:22 found some interesting information.
10:06:46:21 The FDOT used one study which was done at the
10:06:49:18 University of South Florida.
10:06:51:21 The documentation states surrounding land use should be
10:06:55:22 considered in determining speed limits.
10:06:58:12 So it is subjective, depending on what you decide.
10:07:04:00 It also used only major arterial roads.
10:07:06:12 We are not a major arterial road in the study for
10:07:10:15 plans.
10:07:10:25 We are just here to say that Mr. Caetano has questioned
10:07:15:10 our safety concerns in our earlier address, that Mr.
10:07:19:07 Scott --
10:07:19:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Your time is up, ma'am.
10:07:21:06 >>> I know.
10:07:21:25 That the speeders are not welcome in our neighborhood.
10:07:25:10 We appreciate help.

10:07:26:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
10:07:45:07 >>> I do have letters to enter from neighbors.
10:07:58:12 >>CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone who wants to speak on items
10:08:00:18 on the agenda first?
10:08:01:13 We have agenda items first.
10:08:03:04 Anyone who wants to speak to an item on the agenda?
10:08:05:15 They have to speak first.
10:08:07:00 >>> This is on the agenda.
10:08:08:03 It's item 107.
10:08:09:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
10:08:22:12 >>> Is this on?
10:08:24:01 Okay.
10:08:25:03 Terry Neal, Tampa, Florida, civic association.
10:08:29:15 I passed out two documents to you.
10:08:31:03 One is a diagram similar to what you have here, if you
10:08:34:06 can't see it.
10:08:34:22 The other is a page out of the MUTCB manual, which is
10:08:38:13 the manual that the city is using as a justification
10:08:42:06 for the 86 percentile, and this page 634, these are
10:08:47:12 part of the revisions to the MUTCB manual made in 2007
10:08:51:15 which have not been adopted but I want to show you what
10:08:54:04 they are planning.
10:08:55:27 First of all, I also want to say as far as an agenda
10:08:58:13 item that I support any elected official, whether it's
10:09:02:00 City Council or the mayor, to write any opinion,

10:09:05:21 personal opinion, on counsel or Tampa city letter head
10:09:11:22 regarding their opinion on any issue, however
10:09:16:18 distasteful it might be to someone. That is freedom of
10:09:19:27 speech.
10:09:20:18 >>GWEN MILLER: It's not on the agenda.
10:09:21:25 >>> Yes, it is on the agenda.
10:09:23:13 >>
10:09:24:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Not on letter head.
10:09:27:06 >>GWEN MILLER: It's under staff reports.
10:09:31:12 >>> Anyway, on my diagram, which I want to see, and I
10:09:37:15 do want to point out that the city has -- collectors do
10:09:41:15 not give speed tables.
10:09:43:18 Right here from 40th all the way over to Rowlette
10:09:46:21 Park is a collector.
10:09:49:06 According to statistics, it for the study, it has five
10:09:55:09 speed tables.
10:09:56:00 I also want to point out that the whole reason for
10:09:59:03 widening 40th Street was to take cars off of
10:10:02:27 residential streets and to make that easier for people
10:10:07:07 to get up and down that major arterial and to get to
10:10:10:19 Busch Boulevard which is a major arterial.
10:10:12:27 The problem is that our entire area is residential.
10:10:17:12 And according to the MUTCB manual, the 85th
10:10:22:09 percentile can't just be decided on speed.
10:10:25:06 It has to be decided if you look on line 17 through 19,

10:10:30:03 significant change in roadway characteristics,
10:10:32:18 surrounding land use, and road characteristics and
10:10:36:15 other things like that.
10:10:38:00 Can I give you an idea here toward the Elmo, if you
10:10:41:13 would, please, that's one of the curves where in River
10:10:43:21 Hills Drive, at 46th street, there is no -- it's a
10:10:48:06 flashing yellow light
10:10:52:09 It's a flashing yellow light, and it's a 20
10:10:55:19 mile-per-hour advisory limit.
10:10:57:16 I can pull out the statute that tells you that there
10:11:02:24 are advisory speeds, and people are obligated to slow
10:11:05:27 down.
10:11:06:06 So river hills is not just a 30 mile-per-hour speed
10:11:09:13 limit road.
10:11:10:13 On this side of 40th Street it's 25.
10:11:13:06 It's 30 here.
10:11:14:09 It's a 20 mile-per-hour advisory here.
10:11:17:25 It's 30 here.
10:11:18:24 And then as you enter Temple Terrace, it's 25 miles per
10:11:22:06 hour.
10:11:23:00 And the reason I bring up Temple Terrace is because the
10:11:25:24 city has brought up the idea that there are some major
10:11:28:28 arterials which is 56th street, and there's a light
10:11:31:24 there.
10:11:32:12 I think I can safely tell you that that's a 25

10:11:38:06 mile-per-hour zone, and it's also monitored very
10:11:40:24 closely by the city of Temple Terrace.
10:11:42:21 If you look at the statistics from our December study,
10:11:45:12 you will find out that the speed going into Temple
10:11:49:00 Terrace from Tampa average around 33 miles per hour.
10:11:54:07 No, the higher speeds, were 43 miles per hour.
10:11:57:24 The speeds coming out of Temple Terrace --
10:12:00:27 (Bell sounds).
10:12:01:22 -- were 29 miles per hour.
10:12:04:00 Because Temple Terrace monitors the road, and it's a 25
10:12:09:09 mile-an-hour speed limit.
10:12:10:07 Thank you.
10:12:10:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:12:11:06 Next speaker.
10:12:17:09 >>> Lee Hewitt, 4219 River Hills Drive.
10:12:23:12 And we want to speak a moment about safety.
10:12:26:15 Safety has been a concern --
10:12:31:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is this an agenda item, sir?
10:12:33:22 >>> Same agenda.
10:12:36:00 27, I'm sorry.
10:12:37:00 River hills community is concerned about safety and we
10:12:40:00 want to remind but the council meeting of October
10:12:42:13 4th, previously mentioned.
10:12:45:09 The transportation department had a report from Mr.
10:12:48:06 Rodriguez, and you recall a question to him regarding

10:12:51:00 safety.
10:12:51:21 So we are here to empathize with what some of the
10:12:55:16 neighbors are saying about safety.
10:13:03:07 We circulated requests for the neighbors to respond.
10:13:07:13 We heard from Jane lent, Tom and, River Hills Drive,
10:13:11:21 they report two accidents occurred in front of their
10:13:14:03 house in previous years.
10:13:15:00 They also note, people must walk on the street due to
10:13:19:04 lack of sidewalks.
10:13:20:01 She was hit at 46th Street in an accident. Mary
10:13:24:09 Dunlap, 4204 east River Hills Drive, expresses
10:13:28:06 disappointments with living conditions at her
10:13:30:00 residence, due to safety concerns.
10:13:31:22 She did not expect traffic to be as bad as main
10:13:36:15 highways in this apparent residential area.
10:13:38:18 Speeding vehicles are intolerant of neighborhood
10:13:40:13 movement by residents and several times she was nearly
10:13:43:00 hit by turning into her own driveway.
10:13:46:18 Three small children reside with her and she can
10:13:48:15 reluctant to allow them outside to play because of the
10:13:51:15 traffic.
10:13:53:01 Excessive traffic speeds.
10:13:57:01 We, the Hewetts, 4219 River Hills Drive, report
10:14:00:06 numerous accidents, involving speeding vehicles
10:14:01:25 colliding into fences, trees and houses.

10:14:05:01 On one occasion, very dear to us, our daughter had come
10:14:07:21 home late the evening of New Year's Eve, 1990, and a
10:14:15:21 driver left the road about 4 a.m., and collided into
10:14:19:27 the house, managed to get through our very, very large
10:14:25:25 oak trees without hitting them, hit the house, where
10:14:28:12 the daughter had fallen asleep on the couch.
10:14:31:04 So it can be dangerous.
10:14:33:03 We have had other accidents where cars have crashed
10:14:36:03 into the trees, the big oaks.
10:14:38:18 The one that's towards the eastern most is severely
10:14:41:21 damaged, and advised by an arborist it will need to be
10:14:45:25 removed in the next several years.
10:14:50:07 Another note at 4218 River Hills Drive has had her
10:14:54:27 fence has met with collisions over the years several
10:14:58:22 times, requiring significant damage.
10:15:01:10 She was hit one time backing up.
10:15:04:03 Backing up is a problem onto River Hills Drive.
10:15:06:12 Many neighbors have difficulty.
10:15:07:15 She was hit one time.
10:15:08:18 She was charged with the accident.
10:15:12:03 She took it to -- went to court with it and judge said
10:15:17:12 not her fault due to circumstances surrounding, the
10:15:19:25 pictures you have seen, very difficult to see left and
10:15:22:24 right who is coming.
10:15:24:27 Neighbors comment that they have difficulty checking

10:15:27:06 mailboxes.
10:15:28:06 Mailboxes are a particular problem.
10:15:30:09 They have been hit and destroyed numerous times over
10:15:32:00 the years.
10:15:34:13 Some of them hit more than others, particularly on the
10:15:37:00 curves.
10:15:37:18 Many accidents are not reported because they are hit
10:15:39:13 and run leaving car parts behind as well as damage to
10:15:43:09 property.
10:15:47:09 This is not an uncommon occurrence.
10:15:50:03 The building codes restrict things.
10:15:53:00 (Bell sounds).
10:15:53:16 We want to leave you with those safety concerns.
10:15:56:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Put your name on the record again for
10:15:58:24 me, please.
10:15:59:24 >>> Lee Hewitt.
10:16:02:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:16:03:06 Our next speaker?
10:16:04:01 >>> Mike Peterson, government affairs council for the
10:16:17:09 greater Tampa association of realtors, speaking to item
10:16:19:19 number 2, which is the in-state planning procedure for
10:16:23:25 code enforcement.
10:16:25:19 Let me first begin by saying, we understand why your
10:16:28:24 staff seeks to sort of expedite the process because we
10:16:33:13 are dealing with truly bad actors who learned how to

10:16:36:09 play the system.
10:16:37:00 However in, sort of our rush for expediency, we don't
10:16:39:25 want to lose sight of some potential concerns of due
10:16:43:19 process, particularly as it pertains to landlords if in
10:16:47:22 fact it is tenants who may be the violaters.
10:16:50:24 I handed out an e-mail that I already sent to staff.
10:16:53:12 I am pleased to note that Mr. Lane has assured me that
10:16:56:21 in fact this new procedure may be the mechanism by
10:16:59:15 which they can go after tenants because it then moves
10:17:01:28 through the criminal court system, as opposed to the
10:17:04:04 code enforcement process, always look to the owners, it
10:17:08:06 may seem easier, and you can put liens on them.
10:17:12:03 But again we are not sure we see all that in the
10:17:14:21 language.
10:17:16:18 I have his assurance.
10:17:18:06 I have to worry about who may come later and how this
10:17:20:18 may be applied.
10:17:21:15 We are aware that you have a standing rental advisory
10:17:25:00 committee.
10:17:25:27 In fact, one of our members, Andy Scaglione sits on it.
10:17:33:12 I was surprised to hear he wasn't advised in this in
10:17:37:00 any way, and we have some concerns about how this might
10:17:39:09 apply particularly on repeat offenders.
10:17:41:09 So understand from a realtor's perspective we
10:17:43:06 appreciate what you are trying to do, we agree that we

10:17:45:28 have certain code enforcement violations that are
10:17:49:21 ruining neighborhoods and therefore property values.
10:17:51:27 We want to help you produce a system that will actually
10:17:54:18 go after violaters.
10:17:56:15 We are just afraid this will maybe move a little quick,
10:17:59:06 and I appreciate his intent.
10:18:03:18 I just want to make sure that this procedure doesn't
10:18:06:15 suddenly get off track, become a problem for owners who
10:18:09:15 never get the notice because a tenant is not likely to
10:18:12:21 tell their landlord when they are in the process of
10:18:15:06 violations and then they end up with the liens, as you
10:18:17:06 know all about.
10:18:18:03 So with that I hope on the record when this comes
10:18:19:28 forward, Mr. Lane will make clear to everyone how the
10:18:22:19 procedure will work, as he's assured me on it.
10:18:24:25 We just want to go on record so in case I have to go
10:18:27:19 back in a few years I can say, I told you so.
10:18:30:10 Thank you.
10:18:32:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Madam Chairman, I'm aware of what he's
10:18:35:13 talking about. We had a short discussion.
10:18:37:27 When the item comes up, I do want to ask that we send
10:18:41:09 it over to the advisory committee so they can take a
10:18:43:09 look at the language, and then come back once they have
10:18:45:09 a chance to do that, so that we are on the same page.
10:18:49:15 I think that's fair.

10:18:50:18 And I did tell him I am very much in support of this.
10:18:54:18 Because the number one issue that I have is code
10:18:57:07 violations.
10:18:58:06 But we do want to make sure that we are all on board.
10:19:00:27 So when this comes up, I want to make a motion.
10:19:04:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
10:19:05:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me hear this next speaker and
10:19:07:19 then I will comment.
10:19:08:06 >>> Pete Johnson, Druid hills drive.
10:19:11:27 As far as this ordinance for the citation program, we
10:19:16:21 can't go fast enough.
10:19:21:01 We have been waiting for this for 20-some years. This
10:19:23:10 is a good program.
10:19:24:16 It does go after the individual person.
10:19:28:15 The landlords that own these buildings should also be
10:19:31:21 held responsible for the type of people who they let
10:19:35:06 rent the property.
10:19:37:01 Somebody has got to be -- held accountable.
10:19:41:00 But at least this is a very good start.
10:19:42:24 It should go into effect immediately.
10:19:45:18 My contention is that you give them a first notice by
10:19:49:15 writing.
10:19:50:03 If they don't contact you within 30 days, you issue
10:19:53:15 them a citation.
10:19:54:24 At least they can pick up the phone and call the code

10:19:57:09 officer and say, what is the problem?
10:19:59:15 How can I fix it?
10:20:01:06 But so many times, paperwork goes out, the mail goes
10:20:04:07 out, no one returns the phone call.
10:20:06:07 No one calls and says, hey, what did I do wrong?
10:20:09:21 That's the people that you need to get an enforcer on.
10:20:14:12 This is very good because a lot of neighborhoods have
10:20:17:01 semis that are parked.
10:20:19:03 Okay.
10:20:19:12 Both on the street, which is very difficult to get TPD
10:20:22:21 to give them a ticket, or they have the cab on their
10:20:26:06 own property.
10:20:27:10 Okay.
10:20:28:19 This means that you can call it in and say there's an
10:20:31:07 illegal semi on this property, code office can walk
10:20:34:09 over there, walk to the front door, because you can't
10:20:37:27 walk on personal property, write the ticket, and leave
10:20:42:15 it.
10:20:42:27 It doesn't even have to be signed.
10:20:46:00 And that's what's so good about this.
10:20:47:21 This is something that we have been waiting for.
10:20:52:18 Rose wanted it years ago.
10:20:53:27 Linda wanted it years ago.
10:20:55:12 Charlie wanted it years ago.
10:20:56:24 I can remember standing up here screaming, something

10:21:00:27 has got to be done.
10:21:02:00 Thank you.
10:21:02:12 I'm surprised it took so long.
10:21:04:03 But thank you very, very much.
10:21:08:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you for not screaming.
10:21:10:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
10:21:11:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
10:21:14:28 With all due respect, Mike Peterson, when you said we
10:21:17:27 were moving too fast, it dawned on me I remember five
10:21:20:10 years ago, Johnson stood at that podium screaming at
10:21:23:15 us, telling us to do something.
10:21:25:06 So, you know, I realize maybe what you're saying is in
10:21:27:24 the last month or two.
10:21:29:19 But since it was released that it's moved a little
10:21:32:15 fast, perhaps.
10:21:33:10 But I would like to hear at some point, Madam Chair,
10:21:37:03 you decide when, from Curtis or whoever else legal has
10:21:41:00 been working on this -- let me just finish -- in regard
10:21:45:06 to what type of communication you have had with the
10:21:47:09 realtor association and but we can get to it whenever
10:21:53:03 you say.
10:21:53:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
10:21:56:06 >>> Susan Lange, president of the Old Seminole Heights
10:21:59:12 neighborhood association.
10:22:00:16 I want to address two issues, one is item 2.

10:22:03:18 I have been chair of code enforcement for Old Seminole
10:22:05:07 Heights for about six years, and I have been on the
10:22:08:25 advisory committee for code enforcement for, I don't
10:22:11:09 know, two, I guess.
10:22:12:27 And this is something we have been screaming for.

10:22:15:22 Our current codes worked great for about 90% of the
10:22:20:03 people.
10:22:20:15 Other 10% they just don't work.
10:22:22:22 This will allow that to work.
10:22:24:06 And we can take care of the real scofflaws as far as
10:22:28:21 code is concerned.
10:22:29:18 I encourage you to pass it.
10:22:31:19 The other item I want to address is itemm 114 which is
10:22:35:13 a petition to wet zone.
10:22:39:03 I guess would you call it the second first hearing.
10:22:42:06 I have copies of the petition.
10:22:46:15 As it was filed.
10:22:50:01 If you will note --
10:22:55:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry to interrupt.
10:22:56:28 Is this going to be before you as a public hearing?
10:22:59:18 Is this item going to be before City Council as a
10:23:01:21 public hearing?
10:23:02:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, it is.
10:23:03:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: When it comes back -- it's coming back
10:23:08:19 before City Council?

10:23:10:12 >>> With you but there's no public --
10:23:12:19 >>CHAIRMAN: Yes, you can speak on an ordinance to be
10:23:14:22 read for second reading.
10:23:16:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Oh, this is where a public hearing has
10:23:18:00 been closed.
10:23:18:18 I'm sorry.
10:23:21:15 The time to talk about it would be at second reading.
10:23:24:12 I apologize.
10:23:26:19 >>> We didn't want to sandbag.
10:23:29:00 We wanted to give him adequate forewarning.
10:23:31:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:23:32:06 Next speaker?
10:23:37:24 >>MOSES KNOTT, JR.: I reside at 2902 East Ellicott
10:23:43:00 street three nights a week.
10:23:44:00 I just thank God for his grace and his mercy
10:23:49:06 I represent the poor peoples, and I tell them to vote
10:23:54:16 and pray.
10:23:55:06 And I want to talk about prayer this morning, the lady
10:23:57:21 speaking about black history.
10:23:58:28 Then I want to speak on this park thing downtown.
10:24:02:06 First thing this morning, said the prayer this morning
10:24:05:09 and said she represents black history.
10:24:07:04 Every year at this time I get to talk about black
10:24:11:12 history because I look back where we have failed.
10:24:14:06 Dr. Martin Luther King, see some of us black people

10:24:19:03 today.
10:24:19:22 But every year when this black history thing come up,
10:24:23:09 people go to all these black parties and everything,
10:24:25:24 and the last day go away and black people go to hating
10:24:31:09 one another.
10:24:31:27 And then I want to speak on this park thing this
10:24:34:12 morning.
10:24:34:27 Now this morning you all sit there and talk about this
10:24:38:15 morning all the liquor you all want downtown, and
10:24:42:01 somebody said they didn't have enough money.
10:24:44:01 But I want to talk about that community tax this
10:24:46:00 morning.
10:24:46:21 I'm one of the guys that put my life on the line to get
10:24:49:00 that deal passed to build a brand new stadium, and
10:24:52:16 30-some schools and put water down there in Wimauma,
10:24:55:25 those people drinking contaminated water, and that
10:25:00:15 money went a long ways.
10:25:01:27 But when I look around, and build a museum downtown,
10:25:07:10 and this park and put that community tax money in it.
10:25:12:15 You know, I disagree with that.
10:25:15:09 I disagree with that.
10:25:21:15 Ain't got no money, leave schools.
10:25:24:01 What happened to the park at the schools?
10:25:26:10 That's what I'm talking about.
10:25:27:22 I put my life on the line.

10:25:30:07 Dick Greco, ways on his side.
10:25:33:24 You got that deal passed.
10:25:35:03 We built 30-some schools.
10:25:37:18 I didn't talk about this thing.
10:25:38:24 I talked about the schools.
10:25:40:06 And now, the schools need money, and what happened to
10:25:47:06 their part of it?
10:25:48:01 I took care of the poor peoples for years for that
10:25:50:10 thing.
10:25:51:04 But we need schools, and when you put the same
10:25:58:03 community money downtown in a park, we want all this,
10:26:01:22 and when I look in my part of town, traffic up there on
10:26:06:13 27th Street, and can't walk down through there.
10:26:11:10 Build a brand new school, and ain't got no streets or
10:26:15:12 nothing.
10:26:15:21 But yet, though, they went right down the street there
10:26:18:00 and built a police station, about $5 million police
10:26:21:03 station.
10:26:21:16 But yet we ain't got no money.
10:26:23:18 And I talk about my part of town government over there
10:26:27:01 in my part of town.
10:26:31:22 Please tell them to help our poor children.
10:26:35:10 Go there,
10:26:39:28 All we got out of the deal, what I'm talking about,
10:26:56:18 children got to walk across the fields and in the

10:26:59:06 grass.
10:26:59:28 No sidewalks.
10:27:00:24 No nothing.
10:27:01:21 But that money shouldn't have been spent like that.
10:27:07:18 And how you all took that money downtown for a museum
10:27:10:09 and all this.
10:27:12:01 (Bell sounds).
10:27:12:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
10:27:14:18 >>> Hello.
10:27:20:27 Jack Bevilacqua, Tampa.
10:27:24:15 And I represent actually the Emerging Green Builders.
10:27:28:21 This is agenda item 99 which is on sustainability and
10:27:32:12 green initiatives.
10:27:33:12 The Emerging Green Builders organization at the
10:27:35:19 University of South Florida, it's a multi-disciplinary
10:27:40:19 organization involving business, students,
10:27:42:15 architectural students, engineering students,
10:27:44:27 environmental policy and procedures students.
10:27:49:00 It's a very diverse group, and in the green builders
10:27:55:27 council, in just a few short months since founding the
10:27:59:04 group, 100 members and sponsored event drew over 200
10:28:03:18 people.
10:28:03:27 I think we are all aware that moving toward building
10:28:06:06 green, conserving energy, limiting the exposure of
10:28:08:18 ourselves and our children to harmful chemicals is not

10:28:11:03 only the moral higher ground but it's just plain smart.
10:28:14:15 We can all make choices as consumers of products and
10:28:17:06 energy to conserve, but those choice are minute in
10:28:21:00 comparison to the energy saving, improvement in public
10:28:23:06 health and work and productivity that will occur should
10:28:25:09 this green building ordinance be approved.
10:28:27:27 We all know that significant change can really only
10:28:30:00 come from our government.
10:28:31:18 As I previously alluded to, a green building ordinance
10:28:34:09 would have several important and positive effects on
10:28:35:27 the Tampa Bay community and its people.
10:28:38:06 However, I wanted to impress upon you way believe to be
10:28:40:16 the biggest impact of this ordinance.
10:28:42:21 That is, it would stimulate the local economy in
10:28:45:09 several ways, and put Tampa on the map as the leader in
10:28:48:01 the State of Florida for encouraging innovative small
10:28:51:09 businesses to thrive.
10:28:52:09 Companies engaged in green building and other
10:28:54:12 sustainability initiatives are popping up all across
10:28:56:10 the country.
10:28:57:15 However, Florida is well behind the curve on this.
10:28:59:27 Therefore, this is an opportunity, it's an opportunity
10:29:03:00 to look at the trend and invest now in the future of
10:29:05:18 our local economy, encourage businesses to come here,
10:29:08:21 stay here and flourish here.

10:29:10:03 Furthermore, by supporting these innovative companies,
10:29:12:24 we will be able to retain the talents of more than
10:29:15:19 40,000 plus students at USF as well as some of the
10:29:19:16 other great colleges and universities in the area.
10:29:21:24 Next, the energy savings that will result from
10:29:24:06 mandating high performance buildings will result --
10:29:28:28 reduce the burden of future budget cuts and improve the
10:29:31:18 quality of life for our residents.
10:29:33:03 Finally, when you attract and retain business, there's
10:29:36:28 more tax dollars so this leads to reduction of costs
10:29:40:28 but also increase in local revenue.
10:29:43:06 This ordinance provides a winning situation for
10:29:45:00 everyone involved.
10:29:46:10 You as civil servants will be applauded for your
10:29:51:06 forward thinking.
10:29:51:22 A new and industrial revolution will respond, local
10:29:54:16 businesses will thrive, the community will thrive,
10:29:57:01 revenues will rise.
10:30:00:21 Tampa has a very real potential to become a leader of a
10:30:03:12 rapidly growing green building industry.
10:30:05:19 But it takes progressive and dedicated leadership.
10:30:09:12 I put together some resources of what has been
10:30:12:15 occurring both on the national and local level
10:30:14:04 including what our group is about and some of the
10:30:16:00 initiatives on the USF campus.

10:30:17:19 I think that you will find the research that I have put
10:30:20:27 together are really great and concise overview of the
10:30:25:06 prunes, benefit and economic feasibility of green
10:30:27:12 building.
10:30:28:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:30:32:00 Next speaker.
10:30:32:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Could I talk to him for a minute?
10:30:36:13 Jack, thank you for coming, and on behalf of all the
10:30:39:09 university students who are deeply involved in this.
10:30:42:00 The emerging green buildings -- builders group is a
10:30:45:21 great group out of USF.
10:30:47:09 I heard a term the other day, and I thought it was a
10:30:49:28 neat term, that blue collar workers, white color
10:30:53:15 workers, and now they call these folks green collar
10:30:56:09 workers which I think is kind of neat. Anyway, thank
10:30:58:19 you for coming.
10:30:59:12 Thank you for working on this.
10:31:00:28 And keep your eyes on us because we are going to be
10:31:04:21 working on this over the next couple of weeks.
10:31:06:19 Thank you.
10:31:10:13 >>> Mark Klutho, Largo, 99, but before that, we have
10:31:17:10 four here, and it says -- the word is footing.
10:31:31:21 You people talk about doing something green when you
10:31:33:21 don't even know the language.
10:31:37:09 I'm sorry, you're not going to get it right.

10:31:42:18 It's the architecture, stupid.
10:31:44:28 I was at a meeting down in the Mascotte room.
10:31:47:22 And I was talking about the science.
10:31:53:19 And Mr. Dingfelder didn't want to hear it.
10:31:57:12 That fool thing they had over at USF, the conversation
10:32:00:09 on green building, bragging about this LEED certified
10:32:05:00 building saving 30% of the energy, silver certified.
10:32:11:27 Well, here is the library demonstration project funded
10:32:15:12 by the Department of Energy, 1981, the utility bills
10:32:18:24 cut by 80%.
10:32:22:21 And then in here, the rocky mountain institute, the
10:32:30:24 residential part of this has a $5 a month electric
10:32:34:09 bill, completed in 1983.
10:32:40:16 And then November-December, trends in green building,
10:32:46:04 the 7th trend is beyond LEED platinum.
10:32:51:19 High performance building.
10:32:53:00 They don't know what high performance buildings are at
10:32:57:04 USF.
10:32:58:19 The new Marshall building that is going up over there,
10:33:01:07 they just had this focus on the national climate change
10:33:06:21 symposium January 31st, and the fool from TECO
10:33:12:04 spoke over there about global warming, and they are
10:33:16:19 going to be raising their prices because of building
10:33:21:21 new power plants.
10:33:22:24 Well, we just got our first power bill since our solar

10:33:26:22 got put on the roof for hot water.
10:33:30:16 $20.69.
10:33:34:09 And this is before I had completed the retrofit of the
10:33:38:25 house to demonstrate what is truly green.
10:33:44:12 You fools don't know what it is.
10:33:48:24 U.S. green building, the board of green building, those
10:33:51:16 idiots are going to kill the planet.
10:33:55:09 It is not green.
10:33:57:15 The Boca Ciega high school, you will be 70 million and
10:34:03:06 605,000, LEED certified, a two- to twelve-dollar
10:34:06:00 payback in the 605.
10:34:09:21 We are talking 600% range.
10:34:13:25 My friend Elliott that owns a newsstand says that's
10:34:16:27 like going to buy a car and the salesman saying you are
10:34:20:10 going to get 6 and 36 miles to the gallon.
10:34:23:19 These fools don't know what they are talking about.
10:34:29:06 You people are way, way off base.
10:34:33:16 If it was a dart game, dart board up there, that LEED
10:34:38:04 thing you have on the wall, here are the darts.
10:34:43:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:34:44:03 Next speaker.
10:34:45:12 >>> Idiots.
10:34:46:03 >> Madam Chair, you are at the end of your 30-minute
10:34:50:12 time period for audience comment.
10:34:51:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to hear two more because we

10:34:54:09 had a council member asking question that used some of
10:34:56:18 their time so we are going to listen to two more.
10:34:58:27 >>> John Moyer, Tampa.
10:35:01:15 Good morning, everyone.
10:35:02:12 Thank you for inviting me to attend this council
10:35:04:12 meeting to discuss a very important animal welfare
10:35:06:15 issue.
10:35:09:27 Confined wire enclosures and battery cages.
10:35:13:19 Approximately 280 million birds in the U.S. live in
10:35:16:21 battery cages in which they suffer immensely.
10:35:19:15 On average each cage is a 46 square inches, less than a
10:35:25:28 single sheet of letter size paper on which to live
10:35:28:24 their entire life with up to a home in a battery cage.
10:35:34:24 This restricts the bird's movement so severely that
10:35:38:15 they are unable to even spread their wings.
10:35:40:27 These birds are also denied the opportunity to engage
10:35:43:15 in numerous important natural behaviors as simple as
10:35:46:27 walking, but also nesting, perching, and foraging.
10:35:51:06 Now, we have all been cramped in an airplane seen so
10:35:56:27 restricted bee could barely move or stretch our limbs.
10:35:59:15 But imagine the intensive confinement that these
10:36:01:19 animals endure.
10:36:02:19 We have to remember that these cramped conditions
10:36:05:06 aren't just for a short flight but for weeks and months
10:36:08:09 and years on end.

10:36:09:27 Fortunately, there is growing momentum going against
10:36:12:15 battery cage confinement.
10:36:14:00 Governments are taking a stand.
10:36:15:18 Opposing practice.
10:36:16:28 Numerous countries have now banned battery cages
10:36:21:09 including us a try, a Switzerland, Sweden.
10:36:24:06 Entire --
10:36:28:21 City Council in Florida, Maryland, Massachusetts and
10:36:30:18 California have unanimously passed resolutions
10:36:33:21 condemning the confinement of pets in battery cages
10:36:36:27 while urging their consumers not to buy the cage. This
10:36:41:12 includes New Port Richey, West Palm Beach, Hollywood
10:36:44:28 and winter springs.
10:36:46:15 Companies are also distancing themselves from battery
10:36:50:00 cage eggs.
10:36:52:27 Celebrity chef Wolfgang puck is using in his
10:36:57:03 restaurant, grocery store items and date catering
10:36:59:27 business.
10:37:01:01 AOL, Microsoft, use cage free in their corporate
10:37:05:06 cafeterias.
10:37:08:09 Grocery stores are refusing to carry battery cage also.
10:37:12:04 Whole field and wild oats -- while trader George has
10:37:17:19 the same policy for scrambled eggs.
10:37:20:06 Schools are on board.
10:37:21:03 More than 333 schools across the country made the

10:37:23:12 change to completely eliminate or drastically reduce
10:37:25:21 the use of eggs from caged.
10:37:29:27 These schools include University of Miami, Eckerd
10:37:33:07 college in St. Petersburg, as well as Harvard, MIT,
10:37:36:06 Berkeley, Stanford, Dartmouth, Princeton and Yale.
10:37:40:09 We are proud the city is work to reduce euthanasia and
10:37:46:12 increase the adoption of companion animals.
10:37:48:24 Passing this resolution is a way to have compassion for
10:37:52:18 all animals.
10:37:53:18 As board member with Florida voices for animals and
10:37:56:09 pets in Hillsborough County coalition I'm asking to you
10:37:58:12 please pass this nonbinding resolution that has no
10:38:01:13 financial impact but raises critical consumer awareness
10:38:04:15 about the plight of these animals in battery cages.
10:38:11:07 Thank you very much for your time on an important
10:38:13:03 consideration.
10:38:13:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:38:14:06 Next speaker.
10:38:16:09 >>> Good morning, council members.
10:38:17:21 Can you hear me?
10:38:19:18 My name is Jennifer Hopgood. I am Florida State
10:38:24:00 director for the Humane Society of the United States,
10:38:26:18 which is the nation's largest animal welfare charity
10:38:29:27 representing more than 10.5 million members and
10:38:32:25 constituents nationwide, including over 700,000 in

10:38:36:06 Florida.
10:38:37:00 We also have a regional office in Tallahassee which is
10:38:39:15 where I'm based, and over 21,000 supporters in Tampa.
10:38:45:27 I was invited here today to speak to you about several
10:38:49:27 Tampa residents who are concerned about animal welfare,
10:38:52:09 and I'm speaking on the same issue that you just heard
10:38:54:13 about.
10:38:54:22 While the Humane Society of the U.S. is largely known
10:38:57:15 for our work, worked with dogs and cats, our overall
10:39:02:03 mission is to help prevent suffering of our animals,
10:39:04:15 including those who are raised for food.
10:39:07:00 With this in mind, we fully support the resolution
10:39:10:01 before you opposing the confinement of egg laying hens
10:39:17:25 in battery cages on factory farms.
10:39:21:03 Nearly all of city residents, purchasers of eggs, many
10:39:25:06 of whom on a daily basis buy these eggs, not only is
10:39:28:24 this an animal welfare issue by it's also a consumer
10:39:31:18 protection issue.
10:39:32:25 Many people would not intentionally buy eggs produced
10:39:37:24 by inhumanely caged hens as you just heard from Mr.
10:39:42:09 Moyer.
10:39:42:27 But because of misleading labeling and labeling that
10:39:46:04 emits essential facts about how these eggs are
10:39:51:01 produced. Many people do just that.
10:39:52:28 That's why many City Councils in Florida, California,

10:39:56:00 Maryland, Massachusetts have unanimously passed
10:39:58:09 resolutions, and we urge today to do the same thing.
10:40:05:19 Several residents have taken time out of their busy
10:40:08:00 schedule to be here today, some of whom already had to
10:40:10:13 leave, unfortunately.
10:40:12:15 I would like to recognize them.
10:40:14:06 I realize there's not time for everyone to speak.
10:40:16:10 But if it's okay with the council, I would like to ask
10:40:19:00 if they could stand to show their support.
10:40:20:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
10:40:21:16 You may stand.
10:40:24:12 >>> The City of Tampa bay has the opportunity to take
10:40:27:15 an important stand against an a regions form of animal
10:40:31:03 abuse.
10:40:32:09 Intensively confining animals in cages so restrictive
10:40:36:06 that they can hardly move for their entire lives is
10:40:38:22 cruel and inhumane, bottom line, tanned Humane Society
10:40:42:18 of the United States supports Tampa's efforts to raise
10:40:44:28 awareness about the issue.
10:40:47:07 Thank you for the opportunity to comment today.
10:40:49:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:40:50:04 Next speaker.
10:40:52:22 Al Steenson, 4100 west LEILA Avenue.
10:41:02:09 I think later today, I think you have a rare
10:41:05:12 opportunity to send a message out to the neighborhoods.

10:41:08:06 As a neighborhood leader, I would welcome, certainly
10:41:12:09 welcome a symbolic message from this body, possibly
10:41:17:18 under newspaper business today, to send a message to
10:41:20:12 the neighborhoods regarding this pipeline issue, and
10:41:24:12 let them know that this is an issue we are not dealing
10:41:29:21 with economics now.
10:41:30:22 Nothing like that.
10:41:31:22 But I would urge this council under new business to
10:41:35:28 make a resolution to give the neighborhoods the relief,
10:41:41:27 for the peace of mind they are looking for, so it
10:41:45:06 doesn't come up and raise its ugly head again.
10:41:48:04 If it does, this council has made a symbolic move to
10:41:51:18 let the neighborhoods know that this council is in
10:41:55:06 favor -- is in support of all the neighborhoods, not
10:41:58:04 just mine, all of them.
10:42:01:16 So I urge this council to, under new business today, to
10:42:07:06 pass a resolution and put this pipeline to sleep.
10:42:10:07 This whole pipeline issue.
10:42:12:00 Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
10:42:14:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:42:17:24 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I'm here to discuss item number 2 on
10:42:20:03 the agenda.
10:42:21:21 The code enforcement ordinance.
10:42:23:25 And basically, I ask that you proceed a little more
10:42:27:07 cautiously with this.

10:42:28:21 I understand that there is a desire to get code
10:42:31:15 enforcement under control, and get people to comply.
10:42:35:12 However, in the process, you are forcing people first
10:42:39:00 to go to county court so you are hearing a master
10:42:43:00 process has now been abbreviated.
10:42:45:06 And hire an attorney to defend themselves.
10:42:48:15 You have removed the discretion and made the fines
10:42:50:22 minimum so they no longer have discretion to reduce the
10:42:53:10 fine.
10:42:54:00 And in addition to that, you have also got the issue
10:42:57:06 regarding the reasonable determination by the officer
10:43:00:24 in the field to make the determination of whether or
10:43:03:04 not that should be going and issue the citation or not.
10:43:07:21 So what you have done is basically eliminated one of
10:43:10:15 the principles of the founders of the government which
10:43:14:09 is your due process and your right to defend yourself,
10:43:17:07 in a regular hearing, before you end up going to the
10:43:19:25 courts.
10:43:20:12 And I know it says a repeat violation and presents a
10:43:23:06 serious health hazard.
10:43:25:00 Code enforcement officers have that authority now.
10:43:27:00 If there's something that's an emergency and is life
10:43:29:15 threatening, they can issue those citations.
10:43:32:12 I'm not trying to undue the entire ordinance but send
10:43:35:04 it back, let us tweak this thing, and come back with

10:43:37:21 some protection, and also some direction of what does
10:43:43:00 reasonable belief of violation mean?
10:43:45:12 On the last page, you are being asked to change code
10:43:47:24 sections that are referenced by number.
10:43:50:24 All the numbers are than there but none of the
10:43:52:25 references to the texts that are being affected are
10:43:54:27 there.
10:43:55:06 So how are you supposed to know?
10:43:57:00 How is the council supposed to know what section 1946
10:44:00:09 or 1923, how are you supposed to know what that means?
10:44:03:27 You don't know.
10:44:05:16 Any more than I know.
10:44:06:21 Somebody else can reference the citation but I can't.
10:44:10:03 And I respectfully request that you send it back for
10:44:12:04 first reading, some adjustments that need to be made to
10:44:15:21 this and come back with a decent ordinance that
10:44:17:24 protects the public, as well as gives the enforcement
10:44:21:03 officers what they need and protects the neighborhood.
10:44:23:15 Thank you.
10:44:24:04 >>CHAIRMAN: We now go to our ordinances for first
10:44:26:21 reading.
10:44:27:03 Item number 1.
10:44:27:28 Mr. Caetano, would you read that, please?
10:44:35:12 Our time has run out.
10:44:37:00 You weren't in line.

10:44:43:00 >>> I just wanted to get a hearing date adjusted.
10:44:45:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number what?
10:44:46:24 >>> Item number 93.
10:44:49:27 On consent.
10:44:55:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The petition says March 20th?
10:44:57:09 >>> Yes.
10:44:58:00 My client will not be available.
10:44:59:06 If we could schedule it for the week following which is
10:45:01:12 April 3rd.
10:45:02:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Need a motion.
10:45:04:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved to schedule 93 for April
10:45:06:22 3rd.
10:45:06:27 >> Second.
10:45:07:18 (Motion carried).
10:45:08:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Does that require a new reso?
10:45:17:06 Madam clerk, do you know?
10:45:19:12 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Will council be in session that day?
10:45:23:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
10:45:26:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
10:45:27:01 Mr. Caetano, would you read number 1, please.
10:45:29:12 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance being presented for
10:45:31:28 first reading consideration, an ordinance of the city
10:45:33:24 of Tampa, Florida amending City of Tampa code of
10:45:36:00 ordinances, chapter 13, landscapings, tree removal and
10:45:39:24 site clearing, section 13-7, exemptions for certain

10:45:44:09 trees, departments and aviation public safety, section
10:45:47:24 13-45, same-tree removal and replacement and tree
10:45:52:22 trimming; exemptions; providing for severability;
10:45:57:27 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
10:46:00:06 providing an effective date.
10:46:00:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Did we get a second?
10:46:04:10 >> Second and question.
10:46:05:27 Is Julia Cole here?
10:46:08:00 I know she was around.
10:46:09:27 Julia, does this also clarify what I thought we had
10:46:12:24 addressed a year and a half ago, but we haven't been --
10:46:16:15 maybe we have now -- how we determine a grand tree?
10:46:20:04 We were going to go to a simplified method, remember,
10:46:22:22 for determining a grand tree.
10:46:25:21 Cindy Miller worked on it.
10:46:27:09 Does this address that at all?
10:46:29:19 >>JULIA COLE: I would probably ask Rebecca Kert to
10:46:32:18 respond to that.
10:46:34:03 I think this is specifically related to exemption
10:46:36:15 issue.
10:46:37:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to point out that the

10:46:38:24 Aviation Authority asked us to do this and I'm happy to
10:46:41:09 do this but this other thing that we theoretically are
10:46:44:00 going to come back to you six months after the last
10:46:46:24 tree ordinance was adopted we haven't come back do.

10:46:49:00 It's something that everybody wants and I'm hoping that
10:46:51:07 we will work with the same dispatch on that, that we
10:46:53:22 have worked on at the request of the Aviation
10:46:55:10 Authority.
10:46:55:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion.
10:46:57:18 Mr. Dingfelder?
10:46:58:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This ordinance exempts the Aviation
10:47:03:07 Authority's activities as related to trees, especially
10:47:07:12 in the Drew Park area.
10:47:09:25 I'm always hesitant to exempt anybody from any
10:47:12:03 ordinances but in this case you are running an airport,
10:47:14:09 you really can't have a bunch of trees around.
10:47:16:07 So I think that's fine but the only reason I'm willing
10:47:18:13 to support it is the fact that the airport authority
10:47:20:21 voluntarily agreed, or committed, according to this
10:47:26:06 ordinance, agreed that they would put funds into the
10:47:28:06 tree fund for any tree replacement, or tree removal
10:47:34:10 that is involved in this.
10:47:35:15 So that's the good news.
10:47:37:03 So at least we'll be able to, you know, increase our
10:47:39:25 tree fund and replace trees pursuant to this activity.
10:47:42:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:47:44:21 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
10:47:46:03 Opposed, Nay.
10:47:46:16 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent

10:47:50:06 at vote.
10:47:51:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want clarification for the
10:47:53:06 people in the audience who spoke to us about issues
10:47:56:00 during our open session.
10:47:58:21 When we might address them.
10:48:01:22 >>CHAIRMAN: New business.
10:48:02:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So that's at the end of the meeting.
10:48:04:18 I don't know if you want to wait because it looks like
10:48:07:06 a really long meeting but I personally plan to bring up
10:48:09:28 the discussion of the pipeline thing and the cage
10:48:15:27 chickens.
10:48:18:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 2.
10:48:19:07 Would you come up, please?
10:48:20:22 >>THE CLERK: Also, the second reading of the ordinance
10:48:22:21 will be held on February 21st at 9:30 a.m.
10:48:28:06 >> That's a public hearing.
10:48:29:10 >> Item number 2.
10:48:35:06 Can.
10:48:36:16 >>> Santiago Corrada, neighborhood services
10:48:39:18 administrator.
10:48:40:21 Item 2 pertains to the civil citation process.
10:48:44:13 As you will remember from my briefings with the state
10:48:47:12 statute 162 allows us three methods to deal with
10:48:51:06 violations.
10:48:51:21 Two of which we employ currently.

10:48:53:12 That is the Cord Enforcement Board process, which
10:48:55:24 really deals with the homeowner.
10:48:58:01 We have the criminal court process, and this last piece
10:49:01:15 that we have not used in the City of Tampa, and that's
10:49:04:16 the civil citation process that works like a parking
10:49:08:28 ticket violation, like a watering violation, and it is
10:49:13:12 an instant citation process.
10:49:15:12 That does afford due process.
10:49:17:06 I have to say that we have been staffing this for close
10:49:19:15 to a year.
10:49:20:13 I know that you have heard from the public for over 20
10:49:23:00 years that we needed to implement.
10:49:25:06 I know I have been here for four years and I have heard
10:49:27:06 that as well.
10:49:28:03 I think our realtors association would be very pleased
10:49:32:19 that one of the main priorities of the program was to
10:49:38:12 deal with tenants as opposed to the landlord.
10:49:41:21 Many times, we have tenants that are committing code
10:49:44:07 violations, and we are not able to deal with them
10:49:47:21 effectively.
10:49:48:12 Also, it allows us to deal with irreparable and
10:49:51:27 irreversible violation, that if you go through the
10:49:55:06 process, the damage has been done, and with this
10:49:58:10 process we are able to deal with those right away.
10:50:01:24 I have been assured by our attorney that the language

10:50:05:15 that is before you today is in complete conformity with
10:50:08:28 state statute 162, that we would be fair in the
10:50:12:00 administration of this process.
10:50:13:15 I want to thank Mr. Lane, Susan winerick, David show
10:50:18:27 and Ernie Mueller who have staffed this for over a year
10:50:22:21 looking to mach sure that we brought to you a piece of
10:50:25:01 legislation today that would be fair, and would conform
10:50:28:09 to not only our code but of course state statute.
10:50:32:21 We surveyed a number of jurisdictions in the area, and
10:50:35:27 I can tell you that Bradenton, Clearwater, Hernando
10:50:38:15 county, Kissimmee, Lakeland, Manatee County, Orange
10:50:41:18 County, Pasco County, Sarasota, Winter Haven, and
10:50:45:00 Winter Park, are already using a similar program, with
10:50:49:24 citrus county and Ocala in the process of instituting a
10:50:53:15 similar process.
10:50:54:06 So we have done our homework.
10:50:55:21 We have no problem meeting with anyone between this
10:50:58:21 reading and second reading to a sure them that it will
10:51:02:03 be administered in a fair and equitable way.
10:51:06:12 Again it was meant for that segment. Community that
10:51:10:09 when don't have an effective way of remedying code
10:51:13:09 violations.
10:51:14:19 Again, those that are serious threat to the public
10:51:18:03 health, safety or welfare, irrevocable or irreversible
10:51:22:13 code violations are those of a repeat nature, and as

10:51:24:27 well an effective tool to deal with tenants.
10:51:27:12 So if you have any questions, I know our attorneys that
10:51:30:21 worked on the ordinance are here, I know that Mr. Lane
10:51:33:15 is here, so I would open it up to any questions that
10:51:36:18 you might have regarding the ordinance.
10:51:37:25 I would respectfully request that you pass it on first
10:51:40:27 reading.
10:51:41:24 We will meet with everyone we need to meet with within
10:51:44:22 the next two weeks when it comes to a second reading.
10:51:47:06 But you have heard that there is a need for this tool
10:51:51:00 from many of the individuals that we have spoken to,
10:51:53:15 the community at large.
10:51:55:01 Thank you for your time this morning.
10:51:59:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What is the process -- I raise that
10:52:02:22 question because I have been told that it is an
10:52:05:24 advisory board that should have gotten this, a review,
10:52:10:04 and had input.
10:52:11:00 Is that typical of the process for the city?
10:52:16:12 >>> Curtis?
10:52:17:12 >>> Curtis Lane, department of code enforcement.
10:52:23:07 Councilman Scott, that is not an advisory council, it's
10:52:27:00 a board that we meet with periodically.
10:52:30:03 It's the rental certification board that we meet with,
10:52:33:18 Hillsborough County.
10:52:34:09 And they aren't advisory.

10:52:37:03 It's a courtesy meeting.
10:52:38:21 So it's no -- no one we have to report to per se, in an
10:52:44:15 advisory capacity.
10:52:45:18 But as a courtesy, because we are in the certification
10:52:52:18 arena, we meet with them periodically.
10:52:53:28 >> And they are appointed by who?
10:52:57:18 >>> I have no idea who they are appointed by.
10:52:59:24 Not by us.
10:53:01:15 I have no idea.
10:53:04:09 But if I might add to this, keep in mind that we have a
10:53:09:22 90% compliance rate in code enforcement.
10:53:12:27 So this process will deal with those 10% that continue
10:53:16:25 to refuse to comply.
10:53:20:15 And, of course, compliance is our first objective.
10:53:25:28 In this whole scheme of things.
10:53:27:15 So the citation program is way overdue.
10:53:32:00 It's something that we can deal with on an instant
10:53:35:13 basis.
10:53:35:27 We have a lot of things in place already, like Santiago
10:53:40:00 mentioned.
10:53:40:18 We have a hearing master.
10:53:41:22 We have a code board.
10:53:42:21 We have the full scheme of things.
10:53:44:27 We also have the criminal court.
10:53:46:10 So we are trying to get to deal with the 10%.

10:53:52:25 We have 90% compliance.
10:53:54:22 Like I said before, our first order of business is just
10:53:57:25 that, compliance.
10:53:59:07 This is not meant to be a negative tool at all.
10:54:06:04 This is just one of the tools we use in the process of
10:54:08:15 code enforcement in this city.
10:54:10:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, that's all good, Mr. Lane, and I
10:54:14:06 support it.
10:54:15:03 But when they tell me about poor people who are going
10:54:18:15 to be affected by this raises an antenna.
10:54:21:21 That's number one.
10:54:22:25 So I'm saying, I support it.
10:54:24:24 I think it's a good tool, as I said earlier.
10:54:27:18 It is one of the top priorities of complaints that we
10:54:29:09 have.
10:54:30:00 However, I think we want this group to take a look at
10:54:38:00 it between now and second reading there. Was some talk
10:54:42:19 about second language, whoever worked on it with the
10:54:45:04 city.
10:54:45:09 >>> Exactly.
10:54:47:10 And we would be more than happy to speak with them as
10:54:49:15 well as anybody else.
10:54:55:03 Any group that has a particular ninth this process.
10:54:57:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I just need to find out if there needs
10:55:00:06 to be a tweaking of the wording between now and second

10:55:02:21 reading, that can be done without any problems.
10:55:05:04 >>> Earnest Mueller, assistant city attorney.
10:55:10:03 I think it's going to depend upon how substantive this
10:55:13:25 tweak would be, if there needs to be a tweak.
10:55:16:03 So I couldn't give you a definite answer.
10:55:17:27 But if it's going to change something substantive, with
10:55:23:27 regard to the procedure or the substance of it, then we
10:55:27:00 might have to go for a first reading with that change.
10:55:29:13 I don't know.
10:55:31:12 We are talking kind of in what-if contingencies.
10:55:35:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here again, council, I think everybody
10:55:38:03 wants this.
10:55:38:18 Even they want it.
10:55:40:21 It's to make sure that what it says, now, there's
10:55:44:06 always different interpretations by attorneys.
10:55:46:00 Everybody got their own opinion, and ultimately the
10:55:48:16 court decides.

10:55:49:27 What it really says.
10:55:50:24 So what they are trying to say is that we want to make
10:55:54:03 sure that everybody is on the same page and that the
10:55:55:24 terminology, or the interpretation, is accurate.
10:55:58:27 So Andy, do you want to address your concern?
10:56:02:27 >>GWEN MILLER: No, he did speak.
10:56:11:01 This is first reading.
10:56:12:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Not if you have a question of somebody

10:56:14:13 you can't do it that?
10:56:15:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby.
10:56:16:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's not a workshop, council.
10:56:20:12 It's scheduled for first reading on a consent docket.
10:56:23:06 Normally the second read at public hearing F.council
10:56:26:15 wants to by unanimous consent allow that, that's fine.
10:56:28:28 If you want to make a motion to waive the rules.
10:56:30:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, I don't want to waive the rules.
10:56:33:06 I just want to understand the rules so if we have a
10:56:35:10 question we can only ask staff, right?
10:56:37:21 >>CHAIRMAN: Right.
10:56:38:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Quite frankly, normally staff does not
10:56:40:21 even make a presentation if it appears on the docket
10:56:42:24 for first reading.
10:56:44:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Everything comes up at the --
10:56:47:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Normally if staff wants to make a
10:56:48:21 presentation on a particular item, they are requested
10:56:50:28 to agenda the item, doc agenda it.

10:56:53:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me ask a question then, Mr. Shelby.
10:56:56:21 How do we then get this over to be reviewed or to be
10:57:01:21 tweaked or to look at the wording so that we are all on
10:57:04:00 the same page?
10:57:11:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: At this point normally what happens on
10:57:13:12 first reading you schedule a first reading and public
10:57:16:06 hearing and that is the opportunity for the public to

10:57:18:03 come, if there are changes or council wishes to make
10:57:20:09 substantive changes between first and second reading,
10:57:22:24 it has that opportunity, it may have to go as Mr.
10:57:24:25 Mueller says back to first reading, but council does
10:57:27:01 have the opportunity.
10:57:28:09 Now, the public is on notice that there will be a
10:57:30:24 public hearing about it, they can contact the
10:57:32:22 constituents can contact you, you can didn't it, you
10:57:35:13 can have conferences with staff, or members of the
10:57:40:25 public to address the concerns.
10:57:42:01 And allay those concerns between now and second
10:57:45:15 reading.
10:57:45:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, when it came back for second
10:57:48:19 reading and not start over, if we address those issues
10:57:51:09 now, then because you come back for second reading, you
10:57:54:24 have got a lot of issues, then you have got to start
10:57:57:00 over.
10:57:57:06 I was trying to avoid that and say, if there's an
10:57:59:24 opportunity to meet with whoever, and say, okay, let's
10:58:03:22 have a clear understanding of what the wording is, or,
10:58:07:00 you know, the interpretation so everybody is clear on
10:58:09:15 the same page.
10:58:10:06 I think again, all of us want this to happen.
10:58:13:01 I don't think anybody is not trying to derail.
10:58:15:06 That's not the issue.

10:58:16:09 The issue is make sure that we are clear on this
10:58:18:16 particular ordinance before it moves forward.
10:58:21:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can just share with council the
10:58:23:16 perspective that if the staff takes the opportunity to
10:58:29:00 brief council, and inform council, and feels
10:58:31:21 comfortable putting it on the agenda, it does so.
10:58:34:27 In other items you will notice it comes to you as a
10:58:37:00 workshop.
10:58:37:18 And the council discussing it at workshop before it is
10:58:41:13 brought to the agenda as a first reading.
10:58:44:00 So in this case, I suspect that if there are issues
10:58:46:12 that have come up, that council does not feel
10:58:48:22 comfortable moving and resolving it between now and
10:58:51:03 first and second reading, it can always continue this,
10:58:54:07 and put it on for a future agenda.
10:58:57:07 For first reading.
10:58:59:06 If you want to resolve some of those issues.
10:59:04:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to just ask a couple of
10:59:06:12 questions of staff that would maybe resolve some of the
10:59:08:12 questions that came up to me.
10:59:11:09 And following up on what councilman Scott was asking
10:59:13:27 about the citations for I know one of the people who
10:59:21:19 spoke was concerned about the owners becoming
10:59:26:00 responsible for the tenants' code violations, and
10:59:31:28 councilman Scott was concerned about the tenants.

10:59:34:03 So how does that work, I think is the question.
10:59:38:25 A citation for a property.
10:59:43:24 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
10:59:46:00 Way these things work normally is when you site someone
10:59:49:03 the property is being cited which means the lard Lord
10:59:51:27 so if you have a tenant the only recourse you have is
10:59:54:04 basically evict that tenant.
10:59:55:21 If you are doing it through a citation, the person who
10:59:57:16 is causing the problem can be cited.
10:59:59:09 That person goes to court.
11:00:00:15 The judge makes the determination of whether that
11:00:02:10 person has violated, he or she is the one that's liable
11:00:06:15 rather than the landlord who has been acting in good
11:00:08:22 faith because as you may or may not know it takes a
11:00:10:28 long time to evict someone after they have done
11:00:13:16 something in violation of their lease.
11:00:15:18 This addresses this question.
11:00:17:18 >> So in this situation you are writing on the citation
11:00:19:24 that you are citing the tenant, the occupant, as
11:00:23:27 opposed to -- my question, it kind of falls back then
11:00:29:13 on the owner.
11:00:33:09 >>> Let me try to answer your question by walking you
11:00:36:18 through an example with the landlord-tenant type
11:00:39:00 situation.
11:00:39:06 The way this citation process, what we are trying to

11:00:41:16 address, are those types of violations that the tenant
11:00:45:06 is responsible.
11:00:46:13 For example, an inoperative motor vehicle, that the
11:00:50:28 city prohibits.
11:00:51:24 It may be on property, it may be on rental property
11:00:54:25 that belongs to the tenant.
11:00:57:00 As it stands now, the civil citation process, the only
11:01:00:09 person we can make responsible is the property owner.
11:01:03:21 And then they have to come through the Cord Enforcement
11:01:05:00 Board, and they may have to deal with -- what is ideal
11:01:10:16 about this civil citation process is that now, if it is
11:01:15:03 the tenant's inoperable motor vehicle, they will first
11:01:19:03 be given a notice, because this isn't an irreversible
11:01:23:06 or irreparable type of violation and not a serious
11:01:26:13 threat to the public health, safety and welfare.
11:01:28:24 So therefore they would be given a notice citing, you
11:01:31:00 have got to move this inoperable vehicle from this
11:01:34:24 property within 14 days.
11:01:37:04 After 14 days if it's still there, then that tenant
11:01:39:21 will be cited.
11:01:41:01 Given this citation.
11:01:42:25 The code inspector will then deposit the citation in
11:01:46:15 the court system, and then the person, the tenant will
11:01:50:21 have the choice.
11:01:51:12 They either pay it or contest it.

11:01:54:01 They can either go to the court system and pay it or
11:01:56:04 they can request a hearing in front of a judge.
11:01:58:24 That's how this would work.
11:02:00:00 Any tenant type situation.
11:02:01:18 And that would be the same for any type of condition on
11:02:05:24 the property that has been caused by the tenant to
11:02:09:18 where the inspectors will know whether, you know, this
11:02:13:18 is appropriate, whether this violation is caused by the
11:02:17:15 tenant or the landlord.
11:02:18:21 Who is the most appropriate person to take care of it?
11:02:21:00 Our code enforcement people will then pull out either
11:02:23:21 the citation processor decide to go through the Cord
11:02:25:27 Enforcement Board process.
11:02:27:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Council, we need to move on.
11:02:29:16 >> I think we still have some questions.
11:02:32:00 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to move.
11:02:34:15 Are we going to pull it?
11:02:36:01 Make that decision.
11:02:36:21 Mr. Dingfelder?
11:02:37:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
11:02:38:16 Madam Chair, I think there's still some questions out
11:02:40:18 there.
11:02:41:00 There's some folks in the community that want to talk
11:02:42:19 to staff.
11:02:43:06 Generally, I think we are in the right direction.

11:02:46:03 But I think we should put it off for two weeks.
11:02:48:15 We have waited for five or 20 years depending on who
11:02:51:13 you want to believe.
11:02:52:09 But let's wait another two weeks for first reading.
11:02:55:07 >>> The next item depends on this item.
11:03:00:09 We have an item coming up that's next that references
11:03:02:06 this item as the enforcement mechanism.
11:03:04:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And that's March 31st, the NCAA
11:03:08:12 tournament.
11:03:08:27 So if we wake two weeks --
11:03:10:27 >>> just worried about, you don't meet every week now,
11:03:13:27 a problem with timing.
11:03:14:22 >> Two weeks from now, and then two weeks after that,
11:03:18:03 you still meet your 31st.
11:03:20:03 We'll be fine.
11:03:20:21 >>> Okay.
11:03:21:27 >>CHAIRMAN: Council members, if you all have any
11:03:24:00 questions, any decision, please meet with the staff
11:03:28:01 member so when we come back for the first reading, we
11:03:30:13 are not going through this again.
11:03:31:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we all met with staff.
11:03:33:24 I think it's the community that needs to meet with
11:03:35:18 staff.
11:03:36:19 And that's fine.
11:03:37:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to continue item

11:03:39:06 number 2 to February 21st A.all in favor say Aye.
11:03:42:21 (Motion carried).
11:03:44:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want that to appear under
11:03:46:10 staff reports unfinished business rather than a consent
11:03:49:00 item?
11:03:50:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
11:03:50:28 Did we do number 3, also?
11:03:52:21 >>GWEN MILLER: No.
11:03:53:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Also continue number -- I think we
11:03:56:18 need to continue number 3.
11:03:58:09 Don't they go diagnose?
11:03:59:13 >>CHAIRMAN: Mr. Territo?
11:04:01:15 Do you want to continue number 3 for two weeks, too?
11:04:04:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 2 and 3 go together?
11:04:06:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's get a motion to continue number 3.
11:04:08:19 >> So moved.
11:04:09:10 >> Second.
11:04:09:24 (Motion carried).
11:04:11:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's the 21st as well.
11:04:18:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think we need some opportunity for
11:04:20:15 the public to discuss the proposed ordinance.
11:04:22:03 And in the future, did you a great job of briefing us.
11:04:25:03 It's always helpful to have meetings with the public in
11:04:27:27 advance of something so they are up to speed, although
11:04:30:28 it seems like we have been talking about this for 20

11:04:33:00 years.
11:04:35:18 >>> We really do appreciate public input.
11:04:37:25 However, we have received a lot of public input on this
11:04:40:09 item.
11:04:40:18 And when one or two people show up and don't want the
11:04:43:27 item, that makes it very difficult, or don't contact us
11:04:46:15 about something that might be an issue in the item, it
11:04:49:15 creates frustration on our part because we have worked
11:04:52:00 on this for quite some time.
11:04:54:09 And I talked to a lot of folks about this em item.
11:04:58:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You have and you have done a great
11:04:59:21 job.
11:04:59:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern, read number 4, please.
11:05:04:07 >> I move an ordinance for first reading, an ordinance
11:05:07:24 authorizing the construction and erection of proposed
11:05:10:03 encroachment, covered balcony with columns and footers
11:05:13:10 to restore the historic nature of the property by
11:05:16:15 BASEL ALI, 1806 North Franklin, LLC over a portion of
11:05:22:21 the public right-of-way known as north Franklin street
11:05:26:03 as more particularly described herein subject to
11:05:28:00 certain terms, covenants, conditions and agreements as
11:05:30:15 more particularly described herein providing an
11:05:32:03 effective date.
11:05:32:07 >> Motion and second.
11:05:33:12 (Motion carried).

11:05:34:12 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent
11:05:39:04 at vote.
11:05:46:13 >>THE CLERK: And the public hearing will be held on
11:05:48:06 February 22nd at 9:30 a.m.
11:05:51:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: An ordinance being presented for first
11:05:54:21 reading consideration, ordinance authorizing
11:05:58:24 encroachment of existing building and existing
11:06:01:12 subsurface footers over a portion of the public
11:06:04:12 right-of-way known as Nassau street lying in Benjamin's
11:06:06:15 addition to West Tampa, in the City of Tampa,
11:06:10:21 Hillsborough County, as more particularly described
11:06:12:18 herein subject to certain terms, covenants, conditions
11:06:15:09 and agreements as more particularly described herein
11:06:17:09 providing an effective date.
11:06:17:13 >> Second.
11:06:19:24 (Motion carried).
11:06:20:18 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda and Mulhern
11:06:22:15 being absent at vote.
11:06:23:27 Second reading of the ordinance will be held February
11:06:26:24 21st at 9:30 a.m.
11:06:29:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Now go to our committee reports.
11:06:31:15 Public safety, Reverend Scott.
11:06:32:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would like to move items 6 through
11:06:35:00 14, please.
11:06:35:19 >> Second.

11:06:36:06 (Motion carried).
11:06:36:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Parks, recreation, Linda Saul-Sena.
11:06:41:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move 15, 17 to 21.
11:06:54:21 >> Second.
11:06:55:09 (Motion carried).
11:06:56:00 >>CHAIRMAN: Mr. Daignault, would you come up for number
11:06:59:09 16, please.
11:07:03:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Steve, you and I discussed number 16
11:07:05:25 earlier but just for clarification, tell us what it is,

11:07:08:16 where the money is coming from, and a little bit about
11:07:13:15 it.
11:07:16:07 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I can tell you it is just moving
11:07:17:28 money at this point into an account that we can use
11:07:21:01 for, at this point, getting the construction drawings
11:07:24:03 for the sea wall.
11:07:25:24 The significance of that is, before we build the park,
11:07:29:07 before we build the riverwalk in that area between
11:07:33:06 Kennedy and Cass, we need the sea wall to be restored.
11:07:38:04 You wouldn't want to put all that stuff in there and
11:07:40:09 then come back and fix the sea wall at some future
11:07:42:24 time.
11:07:43:03 So it is just moving the money at this time to allow us
11:07:49:16 to get the construction.
11:07:51:00 That construction contract will be coming back to you
11:07:53:15 at some time in the future.

11:07:58:10 >> And the construction contract will come back to us
11:08:01:21 as a separate line item for I think you told me 6,
11:08:04:21 $700,000.
11:08:06:19 >> For whatever the amount is, we will get a guaranteed
11:08:09:03 maximum price from Scanska.
11:08:12:24 We don't want a third party to come in and hold them up
11:08:15:21 so we would like to do the work so we have a guaranteed
11:08:18:06 maximum price to come back to you with.
11:08:19:21 >> I move item 16.
11:08:22:04 >> Second.
11:08:22:21 (Motion carried).
11:08:23:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Public works, Mr. Charlie Miranda.
11:08:31:06 >> Move 26 through 39 holding 36 and -- can I speak on
11:08:36:24 those two items?
11:08:37:24 26 is the funds that work in conjunction with number
11:08:45:27 36.
11:08:46:16 36 is a company, DMD, that was the second low bidder at
11:08:51:25 about 692,000.
11:08:54:00 The first low bidder was 609,000.
11:08:57:06 High bidder was a million 3296, and the difference is
11:09:03:10 the first low bidder was rejected due to the not
11:09:06:03 meeting the qualification of competent on the job.
11:09:11:00 In other words, the resume wasn't as fulfilling to the
11:09:12:27 city.
11:09:16:16 The second bidder, DMD which I don't even know what

11:09:19:15 they are, is the one that received the bid and there
11:09:21:06 was about five letters of support from different cities
11:09:23:27 throughout the State of Florida, large cities, some
11:09:27:06 medium cities, and some smaller cities.
11:09:31:15 They sent it in along with a packet saying what a job,
11:09:36:15 competent job they have done in doing the same meter
11:09:38:19 service for those cities.
11:09:39:16 So that's what I know.
11:09:43:13 If the head of that department is here or somebody to
11:09:46:10 explain it, they can certainly come forward.
11:09:51:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you want to take those items now or
11:09:54:00 hold them?
11:09:55:03 Do you want to take the item now?
11:09:56:16 >>
11:10:16:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you want to defer for two weeks?
11:10:21:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move way said and hold 26 and 36.
11:10:24:01 Let's go to war.
11:10:33:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you want to hold to the 21st of
11:10:37:10 February meeting?
11:10:39:04 >> Move to the 21st of February meeting.
11:10:41:03 >>CHAIRMAN: 26 and 36, continue for two weeks.
11:10:45:12 >> And I just want to explain my second real quick, Mr.
11:10:47:09 Miranda, without any insult to his chairmanship. I
11:10:47:09 think his explanation is good. I read that item last
11:10:47:09 night and I agree with it wholeheartedly. I think the

11:10:55:24 bid process was fine.
11:10:56:25 I am doing this out of deference to our --
11:10:58:09 >> Oh, I understand.
11:11:00:22 >> Mr. Caetano has some questions.
11:11:02:15 We shouldn't wait.
11:11:03:12 You can ask the questions. See what happens.
11:11:13:22 (Motion carried).
11:11:14:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Finance Committee.
11:11:16:01 Mr. John Dingfelder.
11:11:18:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't recall any of these items
11:11:20:03 were pulled.
11:11:20:16 Not hearing any, I will move items number 40 through
11:11:24:01 56.
11:11:24:12 >> Motion and second.
11:11:25:15 (Motion carried).
11:11:26:09 >>CHAIRMAN: Building and zoning, Mr. Joseph Caetano.
11:11:29:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to move items 57 to
11:11:32:00 78.
11:11:35:27 >> Second.
11:11:37:24 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a -- resolution for 59.
11:11:40:12 All in favor of that motion, aye.
11:11:42:13 Opposed, nay.
11:11:43:06 (Motion carried)
11:11:43:13 Ms. Mulhern.

11:11:46:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know if someone was here my
11:11:54:13 question is, it's a large amount of money within the
11:12:00:12 Community Development Block Grant, and I wanted to have
11:12:05:19 a breakdown of what years and where this money that
11:12:11:15 we're reallocating is coming from.
11:12:14:06 Basically, I want to know why it hasn't been spent in
11:12:17:07 the years that it was granted.
11:12:23:01 >> What's happening here, this is money that came
11:12:26:00 through your budget process back in September.
11:12:28:06 As the CDBG programs go on.
11:12:31:04 Some take longer than others.
11:12:32:18 The overall budget came to you back in August of last
11:12:38:21 year, which you approved in September.
11:12:41:09 The projects that this money is going to were in those
11:12:44:13 budget items.
11:12:44:28 All they are doing now is following up by moving that
11:12:48:07 money.
11:12:49:03 One was a 13-cent item, an oversight for 1999.
11:12:52:06 That was a simple oversight.
11:12:53:18 But these are projects that you've approved in your
11:12:55:10 budget process that are now being put in the proper
11:12:58:18 account to cover those items.
11:13:00:16 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
11:13:00:24 But I'm not concerned about that 13 cents.
11:13:03:15 >> I understand.

11:13:04:04 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll move that.
11:13:04:27 Fiscal year '01, fiscal year '05, fiscal year '06, you
11:13:11:18 know, I could see maybe moving fiscal year '07.
11:13:15:00 Why is this money not -- I mean, we had so many people
11:13:18:03 that come in for these block grants every year and we
11:13:22:06 turn people away.
11:13:23:22 >> These are projects you've already approved.
11:13:25:12 They are simply moving the money to pay for the
11:13:27:24 projects that you approved in the budget process.
11:13:29:16 These are not new projects coming in.
11:13:31:12 This is not money that was being moved from a project
11:13:33:15 that you approved that they didn't want to approve.
11:13:35:12 These are projects City Council approved in the budget
11:13:37:24 process.
11:13:38:09 All this is doing is moving the money to projects you
11:13:40:27 have approved.
11:13:41:15 May not be enough of it --
11:13:44:19 >>MARY MULHERN: I understand that.
11:13:45:15 But what I don't understand is why we weren't moving
11:13:48:00 that money, say, for 2001 five years ago, six years
11:13:53:03 ago.
11:13:54:06 >> Again, somebody from budget has to explain that.
11:13:57:21 What normally happens, there's money in a lot of these
11:13:59:25 accounts over the years.
11:14:00:25 This is money that was on a project that came in under

11:14:04:03 budget that the project didn't go forward for some
11:14:06:24 reason.
11:14:07:00 So the money is left in that account.
11:14:08:27 When your budget came to you for your approval back in
11:14:12:01 September of last year, those items were listed, and
11:14:16:03 you now the money is simply being moved from the
11:14:19:10 projects.
11:14:19:21 This happens all the time in the budget process.
11:14:21:28 Overestimate, underestimate.
11:14:24:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I understand what you're doing.
11:14:25:24 I don't understand why we're doing it now.
11:14:27:16 I think it should be something that we should be doing
11:14:30:10 on a yearly basis.
11:14:31:18 If we've got money left over in community block grants,
11:14:35:03 we should be allocating that.
11:14:37:27 >> Some of the multiyear projects that they don't know
11:14:39:19 if there will be money left over until the project is
11:14:42:03 completed.
11:14:42:21 And it may take two or three years to complete.
11:14:45:12 I'm trying to give you the process.
11:14:47:10 I can't give you specifics.
11:14:48:27 If you need somebody, you can pull the item and
11:14:51:04 continue it.
11:14:52:24 This is a routine process.
11:14:53:22 This is nothing unusual.

11:14:54:18 This happens every week or every two weeks when it
11:14:56:27 comes back to you.
11:14:58:00 >>MARY MULHERN: You know what, I would like to continue
11:14:59:15 it so I can see what the individual amounts from year
11:15:02:15 to year, what the projects --
11:15:05:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:15:06:09 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:15:08:00 >> Next meeting in two weeks.
11:15:10:16 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:15:11:21 All in favor, aye.
11:15:12:09 [Motion Carried]
11:15:13:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Madam Chair, I would like to move to
11:15:15:18 waive the rules in deference to our sheriff.
11:15:18:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Transportation, Ms. Mary Mulhern.
11:15:30:07 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 79 through 91.
11:15:33:03 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:15:34:13 All in favor of the motion, aye.
11:15:35:16 [Motion Carried]
11:15:38:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Madam Chair, move item 92.
11:15:41:27 93 I think we already moved.
11:15:43:12 92, 94 through 97.
11:15:46:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion and second.
11:15:47:13 All in favor of the motion, aye.
11:15:48:24 Opposed, nay.
11:15:49:24 [Motion Carried]

11:15:50:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Madam Chair, just a motion to waive
11:15:53:21 the rules to hear number 135 out of order in deference
11:15:57:09 to our sheriff and our chief, who have been waiting
11:15:59:21 patiently.
11:16:01:18 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:16:02:21 All in favor, aye.
11:16:12:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want to swear in the
11:16:14:22 witnesses?
11:16:17:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Is anyone going to speak on item 135,
11:16:21:06 would you please rise and raise your right hand.
11:16:26:28 (Oath administered by clerk).
11:16:30:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I ask that all communications
11:16:33:06 relative to today's hearings, which have been available
11:16:35:01 for public inspection in City Council's office, be
11:16:37:12 received and filed into the record at this time.
11:16:39:07 Thank you.
11:16:41:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second.
11:16:42:03 >> Barbara Lynch, Land Development Coordination.
11:16:44:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That was a motion and second.
11:16:46:01 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion, aye.
11:16:47:09 [Motion Carried]
11:16:48:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Finally, when you do state your name,
11:16:50:03 please affirm for the record you have been sworn.
11:16:52:03 If you've had any ex parte communications, Council,
11:16:55:06 please be sure to disclose them.

11:16:56:28 Thank you.
11:16:57:18 >> Barbara Lynch, Land Development Coordination, and I
11:17:00:01 have been sworn.
11:17:00:27 The report for this vacating was revised this morning,
11:17:06:06 and I doc agendaed the report, but I brought paper
11:17:11:15 copies just in case you had not received it.
11:17:13:12 So I'll give these to Marty.
11:17:15:28 The changes made, the response from transportation was
11:17:40:12 revised and TECO peoples gas was corrected.
11:17:50:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me.
11:17:52:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Saul-Sena.
11:17:55:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It says, you know, do you have any
11:17:57:10 objections?
11:17:58:00 And it says historic preservation no.
11:18:00:16 I thought the barrio voted against this.
11:18:03:00 >> The barrio did vote against it.
11:18:04:27 But historic preservation is overruling that objection.
11:18:09:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Historic preservation is overruling
11:18:12:00 the barrio's objection.
11:18:18:12 >> I put the objection -- but the historic preservation
11:18:23:03 has comments in there that they do not object.
11:18:25:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You can go ahead and finish your
11:18:27:01 report.
11:18:27:12 And then hear from Mr. Villa on that.
11:18:30:24 >> The petitioner is requesting to vacate a portion of

11:18:33:15 20th Street.
11:18:34:19 This is in Ybor City.
11:18:36:03 It's in the national and local historic district and
11:18:39:03 national landmark district.
11:18:40:16 I have this up on the screen.
11:18:44:06 And they are requesting to vacate a portion of 20th
11:18:46:27 Street lying between 19th and 21st Street and
11:18:49:25 running from 8th Avenue to Palm Avenue.
11:18:52:03 I have photos.

11:18:58:24 This is 20th Street looking north from 8th Avenue.
11:19:09:18 This is 20th Street looking north from 8th Avenue
11:19:13:18 at mid block, actually.
11:19:18:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Where is the sheriff's property on
11:19:19:21 that picture?
11:19:20:18 >> They own all the property abutting this portion.
11:19:23:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Immediately on our right and left as
11:19:25:12 we're looking.
11:19:26:06 >> Yes.
11:19:26:16 The first photo was taken from here.
11:19:33:22 The next photo was from mid block looking north.
11:19:37:22 The red is the property that they own.
11:19:39:15 This is 20th Street looking south from Palm Avenue.
11:19:50:27 This is another shot of that same view showing the
11:19:57:09 barricades presently existing there.
11:19:59:15 And the next photos are the petitioner's property.

11:20:03:09 And this is petitioner's property looking west from
11:20:08:06 20th Street.
11:20:12:00 It's another one looking west on 20th Street at the
11:20:14:18 north end of the block.
11:20:15:21 This is looking east from 20th Street.
11:20:20:18 It's the sheriff's office.
11:20:22:16 And another shot of the property from the east side.
11:20:27:21 Staff has no objection as long as easements are
11:20:37:21 reserved for utilities and transportation, and there
11:20:40:18 are conditions on sheet 9-B that were agreed to by
11:20:44:09 Hillsborough County which include a reverter for 20th
11:20:47:00 Street to return to city right-of-way once the
11:20:50:18 sheriff's office is done using that parcel for that
11:20:53:27 use.
11:20:54:09 And then there are some other conditions on that as
11:20:56:18 well.
11:20:57:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
11:20:57:21 Mr. Villa?
11:21:01:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And also Wilson Stair.
11:21:03:15 >> Ron villa, staff for preservation.
11:21:05:27 I have been sworn.
11:21:07:21 I'm going to put the aerial up so you can better
11:21:13:03 understand the property in question.
11:21:14:06 Here is 20th Street here and between palm and 8th
11:21:20:12 Avenue, there is a current structure.

11:21:23:15 There was a road that went through from 19th to
11:21:26:18 21st.
11:21:27:24 A portion of it had been vacated and built upon.
11:21:30:22 And then there's a portion to the west of 20th Street
11:21:33:15 that has been vacated.
11:21:34:25 Initially, when this project came in, when I was
11:21:40:24 reviewing this, I went to the secretary of interior
11:21:43:01 standards and the Ybor City design guidelines.
11:21:46:15 They were both silent on the issue since this was an
11:21:49:21 issue that dealt with national security, and our
11:21:53:01 criteria is -- precedes that.
11:21:55:15 So the guidelines and the secretary of interior
11:21:57:24 standards were written before that.
11:22:00:06 So what I did is, I went to the national park service
11:22:04:24 in Tallahassee and called them to see what their
11:22:07:24 comment was and their direction.
11:22:09:21 And that is reflected on my staff report.
11:22:17:12 I believe you have a copy of my staff report, but I
11:22:19:18 would like to go through it at this time.
11:22:21:06 It says under normal situation, staff would not support
11:22:24:04 the vacating, but because of the homeland security
11:22:26:15 issue, this creates a unique situation.
11:22:28:13 And if public safety and welfare are to be addressed,
11:22:32:10 the following should apply.
11:22:33:18 It's to keep the visual openness, which means no

11:22:37:12 structures to be erected in the area that's being
11:22:39:25 vacated.
11:22:40:18 That the granite streets, curbing, and any historic
11:22:45:03 lights that are in that area, should be respected and
11:22:48:03 left behind.
11:22:50:03 Be sensitive with a solution.
11:22:51:24 Also, in talking to the national park service, they
11:22:54:22 came up with some solutions that they deal with in
11:22:58:19 other municipalities.
11:23:01:04 I'd like to show at this time, this is one example of
11:23:09:12 how they put bollards up for the national security

11:23:14:06 issues.
11:23:14:18 And homeland security.
11:23:17:16 This is another reference that was forwarded to me by
11:23:21:06 the national park service and also here.
11:23:32:24 Continuing on, that this request be temporary in
11:23:42:00 nature.
11:23:43:06 When the sheriff's office leaves, not Hillsborough
11:23:45:06 County, that it reverts back to the city and becomes
11:23:47:21 open for public use.
11:23:49:24 And upon reverting, that no negative impact should be
11:23:53:06 left behind.
11:23:53:25 No scarring to the granite curbs, to the sidewalks, to
11:23:56:24 the brick streets, things of that nature.
11:24:00:00 And that's the position.

11:24:02:24 I went to the national park service to get the
11:24:04:21 information that was needed to give a comprehensive
11:24:08:19 report.
11:24:09:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Any questions of Mr. Villa?
11:24:11:24 Ms. Saul-Sena.
11:24:13:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I had a question for the process
11:24:19:18 that the HPC trumps the BLC.
11:24:24:16 I just wasn't familiar with that.
11:24:26:09 >> That's not an accurate statement.
11:24:28:03 This came in through zoning because there was a request
11:24:31:25 for a vacating and then it's forwarded to our office.
11:24:34:09 Upon forwarding to our office, I put out on the agenda
11:24:37:09 and it goes to the barrio.
11:24:38:27 The barrio did review this, and they gave it
11:24:41:12 unfavorable recommendation for vacating.
11:24:44:03 It was a 5-2 vote.
11:24:45:21 So you have that in your report as well, I believe.
11:24:48:15 So you have their position and you have staff's
11:24:50:15 position at this time.
11:24:51:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just thought it was curious on the
11:24:53:15 litany where the HPC staff position is indicated, but
11:25:00:09 there's no indication of the barrio's position.
11:25:03:21 >> Dennis Fernandez is here if you want him to address
11:25:05:24 that issue.
11:25:13:06 >> Kert.

11:25:14:25 I want to clarify that the HPC was not a recommending
11:25:17:09 agency.
11:25:17:24 It was the Barrio Latino Commission.
11:25:20:28 That would have been incorrect information.
11:25:24:06 Under historic preservation -- it's not the Historic
11:25:30:09 Preservation Commission.
11:25:31:15 It is the Barrio Latino Commission, that makes the
11:25:34:15 recommendation.
11:25:35:00 And they are the ones that made the recommendation.
11:25:44:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you have anything to add?
11:25:46:19 >> What was their recommendation?
11:25:48:24 >> Dennis can tell us.
11:25:50:03 >> There was no recommendation by the Historic
11:25:51:03 Preservation Commission.
11:25:52:06 In areas that are designated under our ordinance, that
11:25:54:13 goes to the designated architecture review commission,
11:25:56:21 which is, in this case, the Barrio Latino Commission.
11:25:59:27 I did look at the issue from a perspective of ensuring
11:26:04:06 that the national landmark designation was kept in
11:26:07:18 place.
11:26:07:25 I did do some outreach based on that premise not
11:26:11:25 dealing with the barrio's role.
11:26:13:13 And what at -- at that point, what we did is contacted
11:26:17:00 the division of historic resources in Tallahassee and
11:26:20:03 the national landmark and national register division in

11:26:26:00 DC.
11:26:26:18 And both of those agencies acknowledged that this is a
11:26:33:01 problem that's happening throughout the United States
11:26:35:00 with homeland security.
11:26:36:21 The secretary of interior standards, this is a common
11:26:40:15 reference, doesn't really deal directly with this
11:26:43:09 matter.
11:26:43:21 However, it does deal with the issue of public safety
11:26:46:00 and welfare and ensuring that whatever situation with
11:26:49:03 the historic preservation, you acknowledge the public
11:26:52:04 safety and welfare issues, and you try to accommodate a
11:26:55:15 request of that nature with the least amount of impact
11:27:00:01 as possible.
11:27:00:21 In the conclusions of Ron's staff report, I agree with
11:27:07:22 those.
11:27:08:00 Those were essentially the premises we discussed.
11:27:10:10 The reversibility, the reverter clause back to the
11:27:13:21 city.
11:27:14:15 Making sure whatever method of securing the area is
11:27:17:03 done so in a means that impacts the district as little
11:27:20:24 as possible.
11:27:23:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
11:27:23:28 Mr. Stair.
11:27:24:24 Ms. Saul-Sena, any particular question?
11:27:30:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, just -- you're in charge of

11:27:32:21 both HPC and BLC.
11:27:35:00 And I was just curious, on this, there was no
11:27:38:00 indication of the barrio's objection.
11:27:39:21 There was a -- there was an indication that the staff
11:27:41:24 supported it, but not that the barrio objected.
11:27:44:27 >> Wilson Stair, urban design manager, and I have been
11:27:47:18 sworn.
11:27:48:00 I'm not in charge of the HPC.
11:27:54:03 That's Dennis Fernandez as the manager of that area.
11:28:00:12 This really was a balance between looking at the
11:28:04:21 security issues and being sensitive to the street grid.
11:28:11:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But isn't the responsibility of you
11:28:13:12 all to look at the historic preservation issues?
11:28:17:04 >> Yes.
11:28:17:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And it's up to Council then to do
11:28:19:25 the balancing.
11:28:21:06 >> Yes, ma'am.
11:28:22:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think in summary, Ms. Saul-Sena,
11:28:23:24 it would have been proper and for future reference,
11:28:26:00 there should have been an asterisk on here or some
11:28:29:01 notation that the barrio recommendation was for denial.
11:28:32:12 Okay, petitioner?
11:28:33:12 Ms. Mulhern.
11:28:38:21 >>MARY MULHERN: I think we should have the -- a report
11:28:43:12 of -- Mr. Fernandez said that the barrio Latino was the

11:28:48:10 actual agency that reviewed this, right?
11:28:50:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The last page -- I think the one
11:28:52:09 you're looking at.
11:28:53:15 >>MARY MULHERN: We have it, it's just not in the graph?
11:28:55:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Correct.
11:28:56:12 Not in the grid.
11:28:57:10 It's the last page.
11:28:58:24 It's one where they say we recommend to deny vacating
11:29:03:09 the street would destroy the historic grid.
11:29:05:12 Petitioner?
11:29:06:00 >> Good morning.
11:29:06:18 Peggy Hamric with Hillsborough County Real Estate
11:29:08:24 Department.
11:29:09:19 And I have been sworn.
11:29:11:00 I'm here today regarding vacating petition number
11:29:14:21 07-21.
11:29:16:24 I'm here with sheriff David Gee.
11:29:20:25 And we're requesting your support of our petition to
11:29:23:24 vacate 20th Street between Palm Avenue and 8th
11:29:26:25 Avenue adjacent to our Ybor City sheriff operations
11:29:30:21 center.
11:29:31:00 There are a number of reasons that we're making this
11:29:33:13 request, but the primary reason is security.
11:29:36:15 That's first and foremost.
11:29:38:24 Sheriff Gee and police Chief Hogue will address those

11:29:43:18 issues in detail.
11:29:44:13 But I think it's important to note that there are
11:29:46:13 several concessions that we have made in working with
11:29:50:09 your staff.
11:29:51:22 First of all, I did -- I do want to thank your staff.
11:29:55:09 They worked very hard on this item, and they are stuff.
11:29:58:21 We appreciate their recommendation of approval, and we
11:30:01:09 do agree to all of the reservations of easements that
11:30:04:00 they have recommended to you.
11:30:05:15 In addition to that, we have agreed that the
11:30:10:12 right-of-way will remain intact with the brick streets
11:30:13:18 and the granite curbing, the lighting, all of the
11:30:16:24 historic nature intact.
11:30:19:25 If this is vacated.
11:30:21:06 And that at such time as the sheriff should relocate
11:30:24:07 out of his present facility, we would agree that the
11:30:27:24 right-of-way would revert, and if necessary, we'll ask
11:30:31:21 for -- or we'll grant a quitclaim deed to the city to
11:30:35:09 reconvey that right-of-way to the city intact, brick
11:30:38:10 streets, curbing.
11:30:41:09 We do that in recognition of the importance of the
11:30:43:15 historic preservation, the historic nature of Ybor
11:30:45:12 City.
11:30:46:03 As you all mentioned, this did come before the barrio
11:30:49:06 in December.

11:30:50:19 It was a very lengthy presentation, a very vibrant
11:30:54:21 discussion.
11:30:56:19 A lot of the members openly stated that they were very
11:30:58:27 torn between their mission to protect the historic
11:31:02:21 nature of Ybor City, and to accommodate the sheriff's
11:31:07:09 request for security.
11:31:08:15 In the end, they felt that their mission rested solely
11:31:12:18 with the historic preservation, and as a result, they
11:31:15:03 were not able to support our petition.
11:31:17:19 But as councilwoman said, we're before you today as the
11:31:22:13 policymakers of the city.
11:31:23:21 And we're asking that you acknowledge not just the
11:31:26:06 historic preservation of Ybor City, but also the
11:31:29:06 important of the security for the sheriff, his staff,
11:31:34:03 and his facility.
11:31:35:01 The sheriff and the county have been good neighbors
11:31:37:18 with the city.
11:31:38:21 We've partnered with you on a number of projects in
11:31:41:04 that immediate area.
11:31:42:25 The adjacent parking lot, the property for the trolley
11:31:48:21 stop are just a few examples of our partnership.
11:31:51:15 And we would ask you today to continue to partner with
11:31:54:19 us.
11:31:55:00 I also have a letter that I'd like to enter that was
11:32:00:13 from -- that's from the Chairman of the Board of County

11:32:02:12 Commissioners, the board yesterday voted to send a
11:32:07:21 letter you to all requesting your support.
11:32:10:07 And with that, I'd like to introduce police Chief
11:32:12:18 Hogue, who would like to make some comments.
11:32:16:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
11:32:20:18 >> Steve Hogue, police chief, City of Tampa.
11:32:22:24 The sheriff will detail much more than I will the
11:32:28:21 issues involving the security.
11:32:31:09 But I would like Council to know two things.
11:32:35:03 One, that the sheriff's office has critical
11:32:40:13 infrastructure in that building that does need
11:32:44:07 protection that backs up the critical infrastructure of
11:32:48:10 the City of Tampa.
11:32:49:16 So it also is not only just a sheriff's office issue,
11:32:52:28 it is also a Tampa police issue.
11:32:54:21 Secondly, I would like to -- the Council to be aware of
11:33:01:03 what a good neighbor the sheriff's office is to the
11:33:04:06 City of Tampa and to the Tampa Police Department.
11:33:08:01 The sheriff supports numerous functions, special events
11:33:15:18 within the city.
11:33:18:03 He has no legal obligation to support city events, but
11:33:23:12 he does it anyway.
11:33:25:18 I do not think that we could put Gasparilla on without
11:33:28:12 the sheriff's office participation and many other
11:33:32:03 functions that we have here in the city.

11:33:33:25 We do many joint investigations together.
11:33:38:04 We are currently looking at going interoperable with
11:33:44:03 their communications system.
11:33:46:15 Also, the sheriff's office supports this and Ybor City,
11:33:51:07 just the fact that he is there and he has uniformed
11:33:53:25 deputies coming and going as a deterrent to crime in
11:33:57:22 that area.
11:33:58:15 And, of course, they are deputies that have full
11:34:00:27 jurisdiction in that area, and they take care of
11:34:03:15 problems themselves if they run across them in Ybor
11:34:07:21 City.
11:34:08:01 So having the sheriff's office there is a great benefit
11:34:11:24 to the city and particularly the police department, and
11:34:15:07 I would ask that you support his petition.
11:34:17:03 Thank you very much.
11:34:18:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
11:34:18:18 Welcome, Sheriff Gee.
11:34:23:10 >> Thank you.
11:34:24:06 Good morning, Council.
11:34:25:16 I certainly appreciate your time this morning.
11:34:28:10 The chief said a few things.
11:34:32:01 I was going to say we're very much intertwined.
11:34:36:04 I think the police department and sheriff's office
11:34:37:21 maybe more so than other aspects of local government,
11:34:40:27 but we do -- we have a great relationship, and have had

11:34:44:03 for a long time as well as my predecessor sheriffs.
11:34:47:18 And I know this issue has become a difficult issue in
11:34:51:15 the community, but, you know, we consider ourselves
11:34:55:18 very good neighbors in Ybor City, and most of the
11:34:59:03 people in my building probably know as much about Ybor
11:35:02:06 City history as any of the people raised there.
11:35:05:12 You know, we are a part of that community.
11:35:07:18 A lot of people worked in that building for 30 years,
11:35:11:04 and we don't take it lightly, and I don't come to you
11:35:16:00 asking you to make these changes lightly.
11:35:18:00 I do take this all into consideration.
11:35:20:01 This project goes back well before my time as sheriff.
11:35:23:24 It was something that had been discussed and something
11:35:25:21 that we knew we probably should have been done when the
11:35:28:21 building was originally built and then the events of
11:35:32:00 2001 really solidified this.
11:35:34:06 And over the past few years, as our agency started
11:35:36:27 doing critical infrastructure assessments and we
11:35:40:00 started looking at our own facilities and realizing our
11:35:42:18 own vulnerabilities, we knew that we had to do some
11:35:45:24 things to better protect that facility for the future
11:35:50:03 and for the community and not only for the county, but
11:35:53:09 also for people who live in the city.
11:35:55:12 I'll try to just move through this very quickly.
11:35:58:13 I know my time is limited, but recently, we acquired

11:36:01:24 the EPC building, which is just on the west side of the
11:36:05:01 street there.
11:36:05:21 And it really changes our operation a lot more because
11:36:09:06 now the buildings will be more open.
11:36:10:24 You'll have a lot of people walking back and forth
11:36:12:21 between the main operations center and the EPC
11:36:17:06 building.
11:36:17:16 There will be a lot of pedestrian traffic in between.
11:36:19:19 And it does -- it presents us with some unique internal
11:36:23:19 security challenges.
11:36:25:03 You know, the chief talked about some of the things we
11:36:29:00 do, and I won't reiterate -- I think we all agree on
11:36:32:09 that.
11:36:32:16 And we will always continue to support the City of
11:36:35:24 Tampa in those things.
11:36:37:06 But I know I've asked you to do something, and I know I
11:36:41:03 heard that when I spoke before the barrio, you've asked
11:36:43:18 us to do something, but you won't tell us exactly the
11:36:46:15 reasons.
11:36:47:03 And I wish I could, and if this were an -- I could
11:36:53:04 present to you a Department of Homeland Security
11:36:54:27 assessment that I think if most people saw it would
11:36:58:24 very much agree if you were sitting in my chair, you
11:37:02:16 would say those are valid reasons.
11:37:05:09 I don't want to exaggerate.

11:37:07:06 I know some people say it's exaggerated all the threats
11:37:10:04 to our country.
11:37:11:21 I assure you they are not exaggerated threats.
11:37:14:06 They are real.
11:37:14:24 And people who are the real experts confirmed that
11:37:17:22 these are.
11:37:18:07 I have to ask you to some degree without going into all
11:37:21:01 the different things that can happen by losing a
11:37:24:06 facility like that, to take my word that it is -- there
11:37:27:21 are some things that we need to better protect.
11:37:30:06 We have upwards of 400 employees that work in there
11:37:35:07 every day.
11:37:36:00 A lot of comings and goings.
11:37:39:16 My concern is not only for the facility itself but also
11:37:43:03 the people who work in that facility.
11:37:44:21 In our last meeting with DHS where they presented their
11:37:51:22 final report, and they gave us a pretty good assessment
11:37:58:00 of it, they thought that the plans we have were very
11:38:01:09 reasonable, and that they were basically an answer to
11:38:05:21 their concerns.
11:38:07:21 You know, our goal is to -- you've seen the picture,
11:38:12:18 but essentially it's very simple.
11:38:14:06 Part of the wall is already there.
11:38:16:01 Most of the wall was built back in the 70s when the
11:38:18:16 facility was built.

11:38:19:15 We need to extend that wall out to the west to take in
11:38:22:18 the new part of the facility, the EPC building, but
11:38:27:22 essentially we have to limit access on that 20th
11:38:31:07 Street corridor on the west side of the building.
11:38:33:07 And, again, this is not a perfect solution, but it's
11:38:36:15 the best we can do without moving that facility.
11:38:39:09 I'm really hesitant to do that.
11:38:41:10 I think it's great for Ybor City, and I don't want to
11:38:43:18 get in a situation where we have to do that.
11:38:46:21 At some point in the future, we may outgrow the
11:38:49:18 building, but right now, it's working quite well.
11:38:52:00 So the concept is very simple.
11:38:54:15 There will be outside security there that would be able
11:38:57:09 to monitor that access.
11:38:59:15 As Ms. Hamric said, I'm certainly agreeable to at any
11:39:03:12 time we vacate to give you back the street just the way
11:39:06:18 it was.
11:39:07:16 Not trying to do anything permanently here.
11:39:10:00 At some point in time if we move, then you certainly
11:39:13:03 can have that back.
11:39:14:09 Anyway, I think, you know, if you were to build an
11:39:18:21 operation center today, I would tell you the minimum
11:39:21:01 that you could build a public safety operations center,
11:39:24:24 you would have to have a 100-foot setback from the
11:39:28:12 roadway is what you would have to have.

11:39:30:21 We don't have that and it's impossible to do it.
11:39:33:24 So we can only protect -- and I am limited what I can
11:39:36:15 do on the east side of the building.
11:39:38:07 But the west side of the building is of unique interest
11:39:40:28 to us.
11:39:41:06 Right now, we only have a 12-foot setback.
11:39:44:03 It makes it very, very difficult.
11:39:46:00 And I am always concerned about somebody being able to
11:39:48:16 get -- at night, I have to pull a deputy in to guard
11:39:51:09 the building at night on Friday and Saturday nights.
11:39:53:27 A lot of action, a lot of people coming down to Ybor
11:39:57:01 City.
11:39:57:16 We've had over a hundred calls in our parking lot over
11:40:00:21 the last year where we either have to handle them or
11:40:04:15 the police department handles them, different things
11:40:06:28 that occur, suspicious vehicles, all kinds of things
11:40:10:27 that can happen when you have large crowds.
11:40:12:27 We need to secure it also from pedestrian traffic that
11:40:15:03 could get close to the doors, especially late at night
11:40:17:24 as we have people going in and out of that facility.
11:40:21:00 So I appreciate you hearing this this morning.
11:40:24:07 And I'm glad to answer any questions that Council
11:40:26:21 members may have.
11:40:27:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Mulhern and then Ms. Saul-Sena.
11:40:30:19 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, sheriff, I had a few questions.

11:40:38:13 What is the critical infrastructure that Chief Hogue
11:40:41:15 mentioned that needs to be secured?
11:40:44:00 What are we talking about?
11:40:45:12 >> Well, those are some of the things -- and a public
11:40:49:15 setting, it's difficult for me -- I don't think it's
11:40:53:04 responsible for me to expose vulnerabilities.
11:40:56:12 I think if you think of things -- we are a little bit
11:40:59:16 different from the police department.
11:41:00:18 We do have our -- our facilities are all combined in
11:41:04:03 the operations center.
11:41:05:15 We do have all kinds of communication facilities and
11:41:08:22 things like that that are there.
11:41:10:12 And you have command and control of the chief law
11:41:14:06 enforcement agency of the county of almost 4,000
11:41:17:04 employees.
11:41:19:09 The command and control is in that building.
11:41:22:03 If this were a private meeting, I could sit down and
11:41:25:16 tell you all kinds of things that could happen to a
11:41:28:21 public safety facility and things that have happened in
11:41:32:06 other countries.
11:41:32:28 I don't think we're to that point.
11:41:34:09 I think to keep going down this road and not protect
11:41:37:18 things like police operations centers is -- you know,
11:41:41:00 do we wait until something happens five years and say,
11:41:43:25 boy, we should have done that five years ago?

11:41:46:09 I think that's where we are at.
11:41:47:27 I don't want to go into each thing other than to tell
11:41:49:27 you you heard your chief of police and both of us,
11:41:53:09 between the two of us, we have too many -- I don't want
11:41:56:07 to say how many years.
11:41:57:15 We both agree there's critical infrastructure in public
11:42:00:04 safety.
11:42:01:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sir, I think your vagueness is
11:42:02:10 appropriate on that issue.
11:42:03:10 But go ahead with another question.
11:42:05:21 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm not done.
11:42:06:15 By far.
11:42:07:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we have to be delicate on
11:42:09:00 that issue.
11:42:10:13 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:42:11:01 You reference your homeland security report.
11:42:13:25 Is that classified so we can't see it?
11:42:16:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It is considered sensitive
11:42:17:24 information, yes.
11:42:18:15 I'd have to ask your legal staff, but I believe in the
11:42:23:28 county, we have a way to do an in-camera type of
11:42:30:18 hearing so you would not publicly talk about these
11:42:34:06 things.
11:42:34:18 I believe there may be a legal mechanism for that.
11:42:37:12 I'm not sure.

11:42:38:04 I'm not the attorney.

11:42:39:09 I don't know if that's true or not.
11:42:41:10 I'm not at liberty to release Department of Homeland
11:42:43:24 Security infrastructure protection assessments.
11:42:47:19 It would be publicized.
11:42:51:16 Even if I could, I wouldn't.
11:42:54:00 It would be absolutely irresponsible on my part to do
11:42:56:21 it.
11:42:57:09 >>MARY MULHERN: That's something you feel that you
11:42:58:19 can't even share with the Council.
11:43:01:12 >> I just wouldn't do that publicly.
11:43:03:06 I wouldn't expose vulnerability to a potential enemy.
11:43:07:28 I think that would aid those who would work against us.
11:43:11:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:43:12:16 And are you -- I know that you've agreed, which is good
11:43:20:15 that you would -- if you were to relocate, that you
11:43:22:27 would -- it would revert back to the city.
11:43:26:00 Do you have plans to relocate or to expand there?
11:43:32:03 >> There are no plans right now.
11:43:34:09 I don't know of any projects that are funded.
11:43:37:00 I know it has been discussed in the county at some
11:43:39:25 point in time to have a joint fire and sheriff
11:43:42:24 operations.
11:43:43:15 But that's just stuff that has been discussed.
11:43:45:25 There are no plans currently.

11:43:47:24 I actually envision us being there for some time.
11:43:52:15 I'm not leaving anytime in the near future unless
11:43:55:15 something would require it.
11:43:56:25 So I'm not actively trying to leave the Ybor City area.
11:44:01:27 >>MARY MULHERN: Thanks.
11:44:03:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And we are happy that you work
11:44:07:03 cooperatively with the city, and we appreciate
11:44:08:28 everything you do.
11:44:09:24 This is not about loving the sheriff.
11:44:12:15 We all love the sheriff.
11:44:13:24 This is about protecting our national historic
11:44:16:03 district.
11:44:16:15 And I have a couple of questions.
11:44:18:06 I know it was way before your time.
11:44:20:27 I believe in the '60s that the sheriff's operations
11:44:23:25 center was located in Ybor.
11:44:25:03 >> No, it was during my time.
11:44:26:10 I hate to tell you how old I am, but it was during --
11:44:29:06 I've been in that building since about 1978 or '79.
11:44:33:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, I know that '78 or '79 was
11:44:37:01 before the area was declared a national landmark
11:44:40:06 district.
11:44:40:15 So when you all vacated the street so that you were
11:44:42:25 able to build over some streets, it was before we had
11:44:45:21 the national recognition of the significance of Ybor

11:44:48:18 City.
11:44:49:12 In those days, Council, the land was basically vacated
11:44:52:22 by great society money, what I call urban removal, and
11:44:56:09 it was free land, and that's one of the reasons why you
11:44:58:15 were there.
11:44:59:04 Plus, it has great access to the interstate.
11:45:01:07 But subsequently, we recognize what a gem this is.
11:45:05:04 We've seen very positive redevelopment not only in
11:45:07:25 residential uses, but in professional uses.
11:45:12:21 And it's generated more life and activity, which is why
11:45:16:25 the concerns about vacating the street I think are
11:45:19:06 higher because of the activity.
11:45:20:15 But my specific question is, I have a report here that
11:45:24:07 was given to me by Vince Pardo.
11:45:26:18 And it shows a structured parking lot.
11:45:28:24 And my concern is that you will build something over or
11:45:36:03 block the street that the street won't be open the way
11:45:38:21 that it is now with just that jersey barricade stuck
11:45:41:06 there, that you're going to create almost a quad block
11:45:47:09 effect, which as an urban planner is not a smart thing
11:45:50:04 in a national historic district.
11:45:52:09 >> The parking lot is not anything we're attempting to
11:45:55:00 do.
11:45:55:15 A lot of the businesses in Ybor have asked for my
11:45:58:09 cooperation.

11:46:00:21 The parking lot we currently use to the west of the
11:46:03:15 building, they've asked, would I consider cooperation
11:46:05:24 if the city were to build a parking lot, if they were
11:46:08:19 able to construct a parking lot there and give me so
11:46:11:04 many spaces that I would need, it would be, I guess,
11:46:13:24 revenue and they think it would help the city.
11:46:16:25 Apparently want to do something similar to what's on
11:46:19:03 the other side of Ybor City.
11:46:20:13 That's not an initiative by the sheriff's office.
11:46:23:03 That's merely us willing to cooperate with the leaders
11:46:26:00 in the community who feel they need more parking on
11:46:27:27 that side of the building.
11:46:28:22 I can't tell you the design.
11:46:30:09 We've talked to them about that over the years, but how
11:46:33:09 that would actually be, I don't know.
11:46:37:04 They were talking about a multilevel parking lot.
11:46:40:03 It was my understanding and I think Mr. Scaglione is
11:46:44:27 here, maybe he has a better idea, but it would be
11:46:48:03 similar to the other parking lots built in Ybor City.
11:46:50:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My question is, would you build
11:46:52:06 something over the part of the street that you're
11:46:54:04 asking to vacate?
11:46:55:12 >> No, we don't want to build anything over the street.
11:46:57:27 No.
11:46:58:12 And I don't want to build any type of bridge to the

11:47:01:09 other building -- I'm not asking to do that.
11:47:03:18 It's just a pedestrian walk across the street.
11:47:05:24 Not asking to change that at all.
11:47:07:13 No.
11:47:08:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:47:09:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:47:10:18 And I thought Mrs. Hamric did cover that aspect that
11:47:17:00 they would not do anything that would affect the
11:47:18:22 historic structure of that particular street.
11:47:20:24 So I thought I did hear that.
11:47:22:09 Let me just follow up and say, sheriff, thank you for
11:47:24:28 being here today.
11:47:25:24 I think we all have a great appreciation for law
11:47:29:06 enforcement, and I know from being with the county
11:47:35:21 commission that we value being in Ybor City.
11:47:38:09 That was the reason we, I think, gave you the EPC
11:47:42:00 building so you could continue to be there, in the Ybor
11:47:44:21 City area.
11:47:45:12 When I was on county commission.
11:47:49:21 And I think to move out of Ybor City would not serve
11:47:55:16 the Ybor City area a great benefit, would be an
11:48:00:00 injustice, in my opinion, given the fact that you're
11:48:03:12 present there means a lot in that area.
11:48:06:06 Also opportunity for Chief Hogue and the Tampa police
11:48:09:03 to work together.

11:48:10:00 And also, given now the constraints or the budget
11:48:13:22 reductions, should I say, the budget cuts that are
11:48:18:18 coming down the pike, to move out would not -- would
11:48:23:24 not be -- I think would be a great detriment to the
11:48:29:06 taxpayers given the fact of where we are.
11:48:31:09 With that being said, I think all of us can realize
11:48:36:13 today -- and I heard you say that your operations
11:48:39:01 center is in that building, which says to me, if
11:48:42:03 anything were to happen there, it would have a severe
11:48:47:12 impact on law enforcement in this community.
11:48:49:25 That is the number one issue.
11:48:51:24 And I will say you have probably done this back during
11:48:58:01 9/11 -- and I -- as far as I'm concerned, I'm going to
11:49:06:15 support it because I think it's the right thing to do.
11:49:09:03 I think that today -- in today's climate that
11:49:14:16 protecting that operation and protecting this community
11:49:19:06 is a top priority, and while I do value the historic
11:49:23:06 grid and all of that, I think security is very
11:49:26:22 important to Ybor City, to all of Hillsborough County,
11:49:29:28 and in particular to law enforcement.
11:49:34:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sheriff Gee, unless you have
11:49:36:09 anything else, we'll hear from the public and you'll
11:49:38:07 have a chance for rebuttal.
11:49:39:22 >> Thank you, sir.
11:49:40:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Anybody in the public like to speak

11:49:42:10 to this?
11:49:43:00 You have three minutes.
11:49:44:06 Please remind us that you have been sworn.
11:49:46:07 >> My name is Eric Schiller.
11:49:47:21 I run a business at 1805 East 7th Avenue.
11:49:51:01 I have been sworn.
11:49:51:24 I really detest being lied to, and maybe you should,
11:49:55:00 too.
11:49:55:12 Because I see a load of horse buckie here.
11:50:00:18 This has now all boiled down to security.
11:50:03:00 But it's all words.
11:50:05:15 Because I don't see any action.
11:50:08:15 Seven years, September 11th occurred, that's when the
11:50:13:18 greatest amount of exposure would be.
11:50:16:15 And in those seven years, the sheriff has not installed
11:50:19:15 cameras surrounding his compound.
11:50:21:06 The sheriff has not limited pedestrian access.
11:50:23:12 He just told you that, which would be suicide bombers
11:50:25:27 to his front door.
11:50:27:15 So maybe there aren't any suicide bombers.
11:50:30:22 He has not put even a rudimentary gate across his own
11:50:34:18 parking lot on 8th Avenue or 20th Street.
11:50:37:27 He has not asked for permission to build or install
11:50:40:15 fences around his building until me and the 20th
11:50:49:06 Street commission pushed this issue, and that's

11:50:50:06 happening.
11:50:50:25 He has not put guards around the building except on
11:50:53:24 Friday and Saturday nights against the hip-hoppers.
11:50:57:19 He has not addressed the adjacent streets at Palm
11:51:01:09 Avenue, 21st Street or 8th Avenue where any ol'
11:51:04:24 truck bomber could pull right up.
11:51:07:00 And he fully admits that he needs a 100-foot buffer
11:51:10:13 that he will never have in Ybor City.
11:51:12:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Eric, I'm going to hold your time.
11:51:15:12 I'm going to urge you, I know you are a responsible
11:51:18:13 citizen, I'm going to urge you not to give anybody
11:51:21:21 ideas.
11:51:22:03 If you could refrain from doing that, just a request.
11:51:25:12 I'm not going to restrain your first amendment
11:51:27:21 liberties.
11:51:28:06 I'm just going to request that.
11:51:29:21 >> Okay.
11:51:30:06 So I understand now that we're on double secret
11:51:32:24 probation, and we can't talk about these things.
11:51:35:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm asking you.
11:51:37:06 That's all.
11:51:38:06 >> He has not hardened the building with concrete or
11:51:42:15 whatever, that he has to have -- this is seven years of
11:51:46:12 threat, done nothing.
11:51:48:00 He has not backed up his own critical infrastructure,

11:51:52:09 critical infrastructure with redundant systems.
11:51:56:00 Did anybody think it was funny when we saw a picture of
11:51:58:28 the capitol?
11:52:00:15 I thought it was pretty funny.
11:52:02:03 It's the capitol, for crying out loud.
11:52:04:24 It's not Ybor City.
11:52:05:24 It doesn't belong there.
11:52:07:07 It's crazy.
11:52:08:00 It's wrong.
11:52:08:18 And you're being lied to.
11:52:09:27 The Mayor spent $50,000 of taxpayers' money to have a
11:52:15:09 visioning study for Ybor City, and what he wants to do
11:52:18:10 is wrong for Ybor City.
11:52:20:18 The paper comes out and ridicules the barrio for
11:52:26:01 thinking that the grid system is more important, not
11:52:27:28 understanding that that's what the barrio does.
11:52:30:25 Of course, we don't even hear about the barrio today.
11:52:33:12 To me, it's just appalling.
11:52:36:24 If he needs a hardened compound and God bless him, if
11:52:39:16 he does, I mean, I have all the respect in the world
11:52:43:13 for the job these people do, but it doesn't need to be
11:52:45:24 done in Ybor City.
11:52:46:24 It's crazy.
11:52:47:12 It doesn't make a bit of sense.
11:52:49:12 None to me.


11:52:51:19 And you're being lied to.
11:52:53:06 You have scare tactics being shoved down your throat.
11:52:55:24 It's just not true.
11:52:56:27 And the proof is that for seven years he's done
11:53:00:00 nothing.
11:53:00:18 Nothing.
11:53:01:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
11:53:09:25 >> Tony Lacola president of the Historic Ybor
11:53:12:21 Neighborhood Civic Association, 2002 East 5th Avenue.
11:53:14:15 Our Civic Association wholeheartedly agrees with the
11:53:18:27 BLC decision to request or to deny request to vacate
11:53:22:07 20th Street.
11:53:23:00 We believe the protection of our historic grid system
11:53:26:00 is of utmost importance and under no circumstances
11:53:29:00 should we allow our streets to be closed.
11:53:31:00 Secondly, our Civic Association is opposed to the
11:53:33:12 sheriff's plan to create a walled off campus style
11:53:36:18 development in the heart of Ybor City.
11:53:38:03 This type of campus is not -- does not reflect the
11:53:42:24 character of the district.
11:53:43:21 Our 2004 vision plan reads, any development should be
11:53:46:28 compatible with the historic urban form.
11:53:49:12 This is not limited to structures, but also applies to
11:53:52:10 the basic grid street system.
11:53:54:22 The closure of streets and consolidation of several

11:53:57:21 blocks into super blocks should be discouraged.
11:54:01:00 It's right there in our vision plan, which we paid
11:54:03:16 $50,000 to have done.
11:54:05:12 I'm not an expert, but my research shows that there are
11:54:10:13 different alternatives.
11:54:11:09 We can harden the building.
11:54:12:16 There are new materials, new construction techniques
11:54:14:27 developed since 9/11 which are effective in promoting
11:54:17:24 or protecting the occupants of the building.
11:54:20:00 The building could be retrofitted with thicker blast
11:54:22:18 resistant walls and windows, relocating vital
11:54:25:03 operations to a more secure location of the building is
11:54:27:06 another option.
11:54:28:22 Wouldn't this be cheaper than building a wall around
11:54:31:09 three city blocks, 24-hour gated security, armed
11:54:35:24 security in the middle of our historic district?
11:54:37:27 Think of the taxpayer dollars we could save by
11:54:39:22 hardening the building versus putting up a giant wall,
11:54:43:27 24-hour security.
11:54:45:18 If the sheriff is so concerned, he needs to shut down
11:54:48:13 21st Street, Palm Avenue, 8th Avenue, anything that
11:54:51:24 borders his building just as easily to blow up the
11:54:55:09 building on those streets.
11:54:56:21 There's such a small risk of attack.
11:55:01:06 Who is going to blow up the sheriff's office?

11:55:03:16 C'mon.
11:55:03:27 There are other things that are better targets in the
11:55:05:24 Tampa Bay area than the sheriff's building.
11:55:08:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Again, I'll urge you, Tony, to keep
11:55:10:25 that little lower key.
11:55:13:15 >> We believe the sheriff has some benefit to Ybor
11:55:16:06 City.
11:55:16:21 While they don't protect us, they at least have a
11:55:19:25 presence there.
11:55:20:21 We're not asking that the sheriff be kicked out of
11:55:23:09 town.
11:55:23:21 That's not what we're asking for.
11:55:25:12 We're just asking the sheriff observe the historic
11:55:27:27 character of our district.
11:55:29:18 Does not shut down 20th Street.
11:55:31:24 Keeps it open to cars, pedestrians, what have you.
11:55:35:03 We ask that you deny this request.
11:55:38:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, sir.
11:55:39:07 Next.
11:55:44:06 >> My name is Roger Rexum.
11:55:48:09 I'm a resident of Ybor City.
11:55:49:13 I've made a commitment to Ybor City.
11:55:51:12 I've lived there for 11 years in three locations.
11:55:54:07 And I've renovated a house that was about to fall
11:55:58:12 down --

11:56:05:07 I'm also vice-chairman or vice president of the east
11:56:09:24 Ybor historic association.
11:56:11:00 Fran Constantino, who you all know, is the president,
11:56:16:24 and apparently she can't speak because she sits on the
11:56:19:19 Barrio Commission.
11:56:20:15 She gave me her notes here.
11:56:24:15 I intended to speak anyway.
11:56:27:18 I've looked through them, and I can see that she's just
11:56:30:24 a much nicer person than I am, which is why perhaps I'm
11:56:34:15 the vice president and she's the president.
11:56:37:12 I'm totally against this.
11:56:39:07 I regard this as a land grab.
11:56:44:00 It has nothing to do with security whatsoever.
11:56:46:24 I don't know if any of you know the tower in lake wales
11:56:53:18 in Polk County, on the grounds of security after 9/11,
11:56:57:04 they closed BACH tower down in case anybody flew an
11:57:02:10 airplane into it.
11:57:03:10 This is nonsense.
11:57:04:10 Nobody is going to attack the sheriff's office in Ybor
11:57:06:15 City.
11:57:06:27 There are far, far more worthwhile targets, and if it
11:57:10:18 was going to happen, it could just come in from another
11:57:14:04 direction.
11:57:15:00 So I don't want to keep repeating what the two previous
11:57:19:21 people said, but both as a person and as a member of

11:57:24:12 the east Ybor historic association, which, by the way,
11:57:28:03 voted 20-0 that this should not be supported.
11:57:33:13 Thank you for your time.
11:57:34:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Roger.
11:57:35:16 Anybody else?
11:57:40:10 >> Andy Joe Scaglione.
11:57:42:10 I'm also speaking on behalf of my partner, Joe
11:57:44:28 Capitano.
11:57:45:24 He had to leave for a family issue.
11:57:47:19 We are strongly in support of the sheriff's request.
11:57:50:28 His presence over there, it's very important to
11:57:57:01 continuing the efforts of redeveloping the area.
11:58:00:10 Thank you very much.
11:58:04:06 >> When was the historic society created there in Ybor
11:58:07:18 City?
11:58:08:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: District?
11:58:10:06 Linda.
11:58:14:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Dennis.
11:58:15:13 I'm not sure of the exact date.
11:58:17:21 >> Are you referring to the national landmark or the
11:58:19:18 local historic --
11:58:21:09 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Whatever they are talking about
11:58:22:01 pertaining to the building.
11:58:23:06 >> 1976 for the local historic district.
11:58:25:27 1974 for the national registered district.

11:58:28:28 1990 for the national landmark district.
11:58:33:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It was after the sheriff went there.
11:58:35:27 >> The sheriff has been there since the '70s?
11:58:39:13 >> '78.
11:58:41:04 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Was that part of the discussion when
11:58:42:04 it became on the national register?
11:58:48:03 >> Well, the specific occupancy of the sheriff's office
11:58:50:13 wasn't part of the discussion.
11:58:51:24 The grid is part of the discussion.
11:58:53:06 It's one of the factors for which the area earned its
11:58:56:15 designation.
11:58:59:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The barrio was established when?
11:59:02:15 >> '74 I believe through state statute, through Florida
11:59:07:00 statute.
11:59:14:18 >> Steve Michelini.
11:59:15:21 I'm here on behalf supporting the sheriff's office
11:59:17:21 petition.
11:59:17:28 I think one of the things that we need to keep in mind,
11:59:20:24 the grids and streets are there to serve people, not
11:59:23:15 the other way around.
11:59:24:22 The grid system is a man-made object.
11:59:28:25 It's meant to be adjusted to serve the purpose for the
11:59:32:12 facilities that are there.
11:59:33:18 And occasionally, you have to adjust those facilities.
11:59:36:16 The purpose of this particular grid was designed for

11:59:41:13 small casitas and cigar factories.
11:59:47:28 Now those uses have changed.
11:59:49:09 It's become an entertainment district, and it's become
11:59:50:06 a location for governmental offices.
11:59:52:00 And those facilities now need to be served in a manner
11:59:54:24 different than was originally anticipated.
11:59:57:00 The sheriff in this petition already indicated they'll
11:59:58:28 maintain the street.
11:59:59:28 They'll keep the bricks, and it will revert back to the
12:00:03:01 city.
12:00:03:09 Looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it will remain a
12:00:06:24 duck.
12:00:07:06 However, they need to use the facility for the security
12:00:09:09 that they have outlined, and I'd strongly urge you to
12:00:11:27 support their petition.
12:00:13:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
12:00:14:03 Anybody else?
12:00:14:18 Sheriff, you or your staff have a few minutes for
12:00:19:15 rebuttal.
12:00:21:18 >> I'll just take a minute and let Peggy finish.
12:00:24:06 Let me just say, to address some of the other speakers,
12:00:26:21 we haven't done nothing to try to harden that facility,
12:00:30:24 but any security plan before you can do anything to
12:00:34:03 doors and windows, you have to do the best you can for
12:00:38:03 setbacks.

12:00:38:15 And he's right.
12:00:39:18 In an ideal situation, the setbacks would be further.
12:00:42:04 It's not possible there, but we can do a pretty good
12:00:45:07 job by limiting access to certain parts of the building
12:00:48:27 and keeping vehicles away.
12:00:50:15 Also, let me just say, I heard, you know, talk about
12:00:55:16 just -- it's not just blowing up a building.
12:01:00:03 There are a lot of other things lesser than that that
12:01:02:27 can cause a lot of havoc in a public safety building.
12:01:05:19 If you read the paper, you see those every day.
12:01:07:27 I don't want to give people ideas.
12:01:09:18 But it's not just that.
12:01:10:22 It's just not a good idea this day and time to have
12:01:14:12 that type of access to that type of building.
12:01:16:12 This is not without precedent.
12:01:19:06 There are a lot of facilities that have walls in Ybor
12:01:21:28 City.
12:01:22:09 The Tampa Electric facility.
12:01:23:28 Armed security that's been going on for years.
12:01:26:21 The children's board has walls around it.
12:01:30:00 The schools just built have walls.
12:01:32:09 And the wall is already built around the sheriff's
12:01:34:15 operation center.
12:01:35:03 It was built in 1978 and '79 when we were building it.
12:01:38:25 We're just asking to extend that and close that one

12:01:41:24 street, which has been closed for almost six years now
12:01:44:03 under permit by the city.
12:01:45:18 I appreciate your consideration.
12:01:48:18 I have no other motive -- I heard somebody say land
12:01:54:09 grab -- no other motive to do this other than I think
12:01:56:09 it's the responsible thing to do for now and the
12:01:59:09 future.
12:01:59:18 There's no other motive for us to do it.
12:02:02:03 I would rather spend the money somewhere else, but I
12:02:04:24 think it's a necessary thing and a reasonable thing.
12:02:08:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Sheriff.
12:02:10:04 Mr. Caetano.
12:02:11:25 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Sheriff, that wall that's there, you
12:02:13:28 can see through that wall.
12:02:15:15 What is it, brick and wrought iron?
12:02:18:09 >> Yes, sir.
12:02:19:19 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Basically, you want to close where
12:02:21:00 those things are diverting the traffic, those concrete
12:02:26:12 blocks, whatever they want to call them.
12:02:28:22 >> We have a rendering and I think Peggy can show you
12:02:31:03 exactly what the project looks like.
12:02:41:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do you have a picture of that to
12:02:43:09 hand around?
12:02:45:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If they put it up here on the monitor,
12:02:48:06 we'll be able to see it much better.

12:02:59:19 >> This is the current sheriff's operation center.
12:03:03:09 This is what we refer to as the old EPC building.
12:03:06:21 The parking lot, the flat parking lot is right here.
12:03:09:06 The la casitas are over here.
12:03:13:01 What you can see, this is currently in existence.
12:03:15:21 It's a wall and wrought iron fencing around the

12:03:18:21 sheriff's operation center.
12:03:19:16 And this is their existing fencing around EPC.
12:03:22:25 This is 20th Street between 8th and Palm.
12:03:26:12 And what they would propose to do would be to basically
12:03:30:06 construct a gate at the north end of 20th.
12:03:34:12 One where the former right-of-way of 9th meets
12:03:38:09 20th.
12:03:38:24 And then one right here past the entrance to the
12:03:41:04 parking lot so that parking could still be accommodated
12:03:45:18 within that parking lot.
12:03:46:13 And then they would place a guard 24/7 at this location
12:03:51:04 to control all of that access.
12:03:53:00 Keep in mind, this is just a first cut rendering.
12:03:58:00 We obviously understand that the barrio would have to
12:04:00:18 consider and approve any plans that they would have for
12:04:03:06 any kind of fencing.
12:04:05:24 When they talk about walls, it would not be walls
12:04:08:00 across the right-of-way.
12:04:09:00 It would just be fencing or gates.

12:04:11:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Peggy.
12:04:13:07 Any other questions for her?
12:04:15:10 Mr. Miranda.
12:04:16:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
12:04:17:25 I was very lucky, I guess, to be born in this country
12:04:23:18 and to be raised in Ybor City.
12:04:25:03 I remember in the '40s, '50s and up to '66 when I
12:04:27:28 was still there, took a walk the other day just to
12:04:32:00 reminisce, and I remember when I lived on -- you made a
12:04:38:10 turn on 21st Avenue, right on 16th Street and you
12:04:41:04 could walk all the way into the gem box, to the palace
12:04:46:06 store, to Fernandez and Garcia, anywhere you wanted to
12:04:49:15 do shopping.
12:04:50:15 Then something else happened called the interstate.
12:04:53:01 Can't do that no more.
12:04:55:07 Can't do it on 16th Street.
12:04:57:03 Can't do it on 17th Street.
12:04:59:00 Can't do it on 18th Street.
12:05:00:21 Can't do it on 20th Street.
12:05:02:21 Then something else happened.
12:05:04:12 Called Centro Ybor.
12:05:07:12 Well, 16th Street used to run from Adamo Drive all
12:05:10:21 the way north.
12:05:13:24 Now 16th Street stops at 7th Avenue because the
12:05:17:16 streets were closed for Centro Ybor.

12:05:19:19 If you can't go past that because you hit the
12:05:22:25 interstate.
12:05:23:06 When you look at that and you look at the grid, 7th
12:05:30:07 Avenue, 16th, 17th, 18th all end -- I walked it
12:05:37:00 yesterday.
12:05:37:12 9th Avenue heading east to west, dead ends at 21st
12:05:41:21 Street.
12:05:42:06 That was years ago when there was nothing there, prior
12:05:45:00 to '78.
12:05:46:06 Scott Street named after the good reverend, I guess, it
12:05:51:21 ends at 7th Avenue heading north.
12:05:54:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I wasn't even born when they named it.
12:05:56:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I thought you were older than I was.
12:05:58:12 That ends on 7th Avenue between the TECO building and
12:06:01:18 K-force.
12:06:02:15 I don't remember if it was open, to be honest with you.
12:06:05:13 Henderson boulevard, east and west, guess what's in the
12:06:10:25 middle of that?
12:06:11:24 Closed both sides called Mobley park.
12:06:14:09 We did that to facilitate the people that really needed
12:06:17:24 housing.
12:06:18:16 Jefferson Street north and south, where does it dead
12:06:22:06 end at?
12:06:23:19 Dead ends at Mobley park.
12:06:25:28 So I understand the grid system.

12:06:31:27 If it wasn't for people like the sheriff's office, like
12:06:34:18 Sheriff Beard, Sheriff Heinrich, Sheriff Henderson, and
12:06:34:18 now David Gee and Hillsborough Community College, we
12:06:41:18 begged them people years ago to help us out.
12:06:44:21 Because there was nothing there but tumbleweed and
12:06:49:12 crime.
12:06:51:00 Nothing.
12:06:51:15 Those individuals that spoke here, I understand their
12:06:53:21 concern and I appreciate what they are saying, but the
12:06:56:28 realization of this is not the main building to the
12:07:00:09 east.
12:07:01:06 It's the building to the west.
12:07:03:07 In my judgment, I'm not a police officer.
12:07:06:27 But being from Ybor City, you get kind of street cagey
12:07:10:12 when you were born and raised there.
12:07:12:12 And I walked it all, and I noticed different structures
12:07:15:15 and different things.
12:07:16:18 And I realize what's inside.
12:07:19:03 I won't say what's inside because I may be wrong.
12:07:22:01 But it's very important that that building be
12:07:24:09 protected.
12:07:25:00 I can tell you that 13th Street when you hit it --
12:07:36:04 when you headed north ends south of 7th Avenue.
12:07:39:03 New hotel it was.
12:07:40:06 That was a different area.

12:07:41:13 Then you had streetcars through Ybor City that ran
12:07:43:19 everywhere from there to Ballast Point, down Florida
12:07:47:12 Avenue to West Tampa.
12:07:48:12 That's gone, too.
12:07:49:12 It's a shame.
12:07:51:18 The grid system that we have in Ybor City is nowhere
12:07:57:00 near the original grid system that was operational when
12:08:01:22 I was a little boy or young man or a young adult in
12:08:05:06 Ybor City.
12:08:06:12 It has changed.
12:08:07:25 I'm not saying that every street should be closed.
12:08:10:16 What I'm saying is, sometimes you have to make hard
12:08:14:01 decisions to realize what the effect would be if
12:08:20:15 something was not done.
12:08:21:25 Maybe something will never happen.
12:08:24:07 Maybe this is the -- so it won't happen.
12:08:28:25 Then again, something could happen and then we'll say,
12:08:31:16 why didn't I vote differently.
12:08:34:04 To myself.
12:08:35:12 I'm not talking about anybody else.
12:08:36:28 I'm just talking to myself.
12:08:38:27 So I understand what was there before, and it wasn't
12:08:43:24 bars, and it wasn't night life.
12:08:46:07 It was neighborhoods living and walking, and walking to
12:08:49:22 work back and forth.

12:08:51:03 Nobody had money for a car.
12:08:54:00 There was no telephone, really.
12:08:57:00 There was no television.
12:08:58:04 You had to watch television while they sold televisions
12:09:02:15 at the corner of 16th Street and 8th Avenue.
12:09:05:21 So all these things, I remember the casino theater, the
12:09:10:12 Ritz theater, everything that happened and what a
12:09:13:24 wonderful life.
12:09:14:24 That's gone.
12:09:15:16 What's there is for somebody else, their pleasure and
12:09:19:06 their enjoyment.
12:09:20:00 But not for me.
12:09:21:04 So I echo Mr. Scott's motion, and I will wait for the
12:09:28:21 hearing to be closed -- my vote will be to approve.
12:09:35:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Unless there's further reason to
12:09:38:12 keep the hearing open, we can probably go ahead and
12:09:40:25 close it.
12:09:42:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move to close.
12:09:43:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I do have a question of staff real
12:09:45:09 quick before we move on that motion.
12:09:47:15 And legal staff probably.
12:09:50:06 Julie, did you draft this?
12:09:52:06 I'm looking at the ordinance, and I just want to
12:09:55:00 clarify for the record that we're all on the same page
12:09:58:01 on the ordinance in terms of its meaning.

12:10:00:04 Page 3, under section 3-C, it says that if at any time
12:10:08:06 Hillsborough County no longer owns the property and
12:10:11:21 then "or" if said property is no longer used as the
12:10:15:25 sheriff's office, this ordinance shall become null and
12:10:17:24 void and shall revert back to the city.
12:10:20:01 I want to make it abundantly clear and I'm sure you've
12:10:24:22 worked on this perhaps with my good friend Susan from
12:10:28:01 the County Attorney's office, that the intent of this
12:10:30:15 is basically if the sheriff's office leaves, and I'm
12:10:36:03 just wondering why we even have the county part in
12:10:40:03 there, because it makes it a little bit confusing to me
12:10:44:15 in terms of intent.
12:10:45:25 Well, the county owns it, the county always owns it as
12:10:49:12 long as the sheriff was there, one would assume, I
12:10:52:06 guess, but my concern is the way it's written.
12:10:55:19 I just want to make sure that in your opinion, that
12:10:58:06 reads the way it's supposed to read.
12:11:01:18 >> Julie Kabougeris, it was written that way after
12:11:09:09 looking at the staff report and the conditions
12:11:11:00 requested by the reviewing department.
12:11:13:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So if the sheriff left but the
12:11:15:21 county still owned the property, what would be the
12:11:18:00 legal effect based upon that paragraph.
12:11:25:19 >> That if either happened, that the street would
12:11:29:06 revert back.

12:11:32:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: As long as the sheriff leaves and
12:11:33:18 the county still owns it, it will revert back?
12:11:36:28 >> Right.
12:11:37:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's your opinion?
12:11:38:24 >> Right.
12:11:43:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: On the question of the property, we
12:11:46:04 have a plan for Ybor City, which encourages
12:11:50:00 professional offices and multifamily residential.
12:11:53:12 We really would like to see those uses in Ybor.
12:11:57:21 And if the sheriff's department were to leave, we would
12:12:01:00 prefer that we have those uses, which generate property
12:12:04:03 taxes and contribute to the vitality of the area rather
12:12:07:00 than it becoming another form of government building
12:12:10:15 such as what happened with the Environmental Protection
12:12:11:18 Commission where it just became part of the sheriff's
12:12:14:18 department so they still don't pay taxes and, you know,
12:12:17:12 contribute in that way to the City of Tampa.
12:12:20:27 Does this then ensure that it will go back to be what
12:12:26:09 our visioning plan sees for the area and not become
12:12:29:25 another government building?
12:12:31:06 Does it speak to that point?
12:12:33:19 Or would the county then be able to make it into
12:12:36:06 another government building?
12:12:37:10 >> Sal Territo, legal Department.
12:12:40:21 As long as the county owns the building, the uses that

12:12:43:06 they use in there would probably be governmental.
12:12:44:24 You can't put something in here saying they have to
12:12:47:18 sell the building if the sheriff were to vacate.
12:12:49:10 It will still be a county facility to be used as they
12:12:52:06 think would be necessary, which I'm assuming would be
12:12:54:21 more for government use than any other use.
12:12:57:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the ordinance is only addressing
12:12:59:10 the street anyway.
12:13:01:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The second question I have, while I
12:13:03:19 still have the floor, and Mr. Shelby, I'll get to you
12:13:06:15 in one second.
12:13:07:18 Section 3-D, this would be on page four.
12:13:12:01 3-D, little I, Julie, it says visual openness must be
12:13:19:09 sustained.
12:13:19:27 I think Council has indicated that's pretty important
12:13:22:18 as has the community.
12:13:24:06 And no structures may be erected on the vacated portion
12:13:27:00 of the right-of-way described in exhibit A unless
12:13:29:13 petitioner obtains prior approval by the BLC.
12:13:34:07 I think the intent of that is if they want to put up a
12:13:36:25 wrought iron fence or something like that or a gate, a
12:13:40:25 movable gate, that it would go to the BLC for approval
12:13:44:27 of the look of it.
12:13:46:00 And that's good.
12:13:46:27 But my concern is, if you read it strictly, it says no

12:13:50:12 structures may be erected unless petitioner obtains
12:13:53:25 prior approval by the BLC.
12:13:56:06 My concern would be if they said we want to put a
12:13:59:00 building there and all we have to do is go to the BLC.
12:14:04:00 That I don't think is the intent of Council.
12:14:07:21 And I don't think it's your intent either.
12:14:09:22 But it worries me that it might be -- the language
12:14:11:27 might be a little wish washy.
12:14:14:13 I don't mean to be too picky on this and I know we are
12:14:17:06 all friends up and down the street, David, but I think
12:14:20:10 as long as this is a high-profile and important issue
12:14:22:28 to the community, we need to make sure that 50 years
12:14:25:15 from now that these issues are addressed today.
12:14:27:27 So anyway, do you have any concern of that, and can we
12:14:35:09 fix it real quick perhaps?
12:14:39:13 >> That was met in regard to the request to build the
12:14:42:04 gates.
12:14:42:19 But I can fix that language before second reading.
12:14:47:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Before second reading?
12:14:49:18 And the same thing with the other language that I
12:14:51:15 mentioned earlier, maybe just break that into two
12:14:54:15 provisions or something without the "or."
12:14:57:21 >> Okay.
12:14:59:12 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I think the sheriff
12:15:01:01 indicated that he was only going to put up a fence.

12:15:07:07 And maybe that's the only language we need in there,
12:15:09:15 that he'll continue the appearance of the fence that's
12:15:11:18 there now.
12:15:12:10 It's going to be continued.
12:15:14:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Caetano, I absolutely believe
12:15:16:25 and trust this sheriff, but the sheriff 15 years from
12:15:20:09 now I might not know and we don't know what he'll do.
12:15:24:09 That's the only reason it's important to clarify it in
12:15:26:15 the legal documents.
12:15:27:15 That's why you hire lawyers, whether you like it or
12:15:30:00 not.
12:15:30:10 But anyway.
12:15:33:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman.
12:15:35:01 Just to -- two points, number one, if you are asking
12:15:39:15 the Legal Department to make specific changes, number
12:15:43:21 one, I would ask if that is acceptable to the
12:15:46:03 petitioner, that's number one.
12:15:47:21 Number two, I would have to ask that it be a vote of
12:15:50:24 Council to be the sentiment of Council that it be done
12:15:53:12 by motion.
12:15:54:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
12:15:55:03 Let's start with the county.
12:15:56:10 Peggy.
12:15:57:13 >> Peggy Hamric for Hillsborough County.
12:15:59:12 The points that you've raised are exactly the same

12:16:02:10 points that we've raised with your legal staff.
12:16:05:12 And we would wholeheartedly support and, in fact, have
12:16:08:16 requested that some of those clarifications be made.
12:16:11:12 We're absolutely supportive of that.
12:16:14:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Logistically, Mr. Shelby, we'll do
12:16:16:18 it by motion and second.
12:16:18:01 Logistically, what's the best way we can do it?
12:16:20:27 We'll obviously be here a few more hours.
12:16:23:00 Maybe we can let them work on it for a couple of hours
12:16:25:27 and have them come back at the end of the meeting?
12:16:28:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You can close the public hearing and
12:16:30:06 hold the vote -- but before you do that, Council, I
12:16:37:03 just want to have a clarification specifically what you
12:16:40:12 wish specific direction with regard to the language as
12:16:43:01 to the -- or property, if at anytime Hillsborough
12:16:46:15 County or if it's no longer used.
12:16:49:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just have concerns about section
12:16:51:12 3-C and the use of the "or."
12:16:54:00 I think it could be better phrased and broken up and
12:16:56:16 clarified a little bit, and I'm sure they can do that
12:16:59:04 within the next hour or two.
12:17:03:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With regard to what a structure is and
12:17:05:13 who gets --
12:17:06:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.
12:17:06:24 And at the top of page four, under little I, that would

12:17:10:22 clarify the fact that we're not talking about
12:17:12:25 structures.
12:17:13:06 We might be talking about gates or fences or gates,
12:17:16:07 that sort of thing.
12:17:17:15 There's a motion on the floor.
12:17:23:22 But I'd like to make that motion.
12:17:25:25 If we pull back the motion to close a second.
12:17:29:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I with draw my motion.
12:17:30:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll substitute.
12:17:31:22 My motion would be that we modify slightly the
12:17:34:06 ordinance just for that clarification.
12:17:35:24 Otherwise I'm in support.
12:17:38:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would move that and you second.
12:17:41:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion and second for that
12:17:42:15 clarification.
12:17:43:03 All in favor of the motion, say aye.
12:17:44:27 Any opposed?
12:17:46:06 Okay.
12:17:46:21 And then we'll receive the motion to close.
12:17:51:01 >> So moved.
12:17:51:27 >> Second.
12:17:52:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion to close.
12:17:53:09 All in favor of the motion, say aye.
12:17:56:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The direction is to bring this back
12:17:57:15 before the end of the meeting, then?

12:18:01:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The 1:45, Mr. Miranda would request.
12:18:05:04 That gives you about an hour and a half to make those
12:18:08:03 clarification.
12:18:09:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I should point out that
12:18:11:01 it's past the noon hour.
12:18:13:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let's deal with that next.
12:18:15:03 Motion and second to bring this back by 1:45.
12:18:17:16 All in favor, aye.
12:18:18:27 All right.
12:18:20:27 Thank you to everybody for your patience.
12:18:22:19 In regard to lunch, is it Council's pleasure to take an
12:18:26:16 hour-and-a-half break till 1:45?
12:18:29:13 >> Yes.
12:18:30:01 >> So moved.
12:18:31:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion and second.
12:18:31:27 All in favor, aye.
12:18:35:25 [Motion Carried]
12:18:35:25 [ Lunch recess ]
12:18:35:25












Tampa City Council
Thursday, February 7, 2008
1:45 p.m.

DISCLAIMER:
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realtime captioning which should neither be relied upon
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result of third party edits and software compatibility
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proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.

13:50:39:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called back to
13:50:41:09 order.
13:50:42:12 Roll call.
13:50:45:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
13:50:50:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
13:50:51:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
13:50:52:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:50:53:16 We are still on item number 138.
13:51:00:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman, you might need to
13:51:02:19 wait for a couple more Council members to come back.
13:51:19:07 >>GWEN MILLER: I'm sorry, 135.
13:51:25:06 >> Julie Kabougeris, Legal Department.
13:51:31:06 We went back and made the requested changes by Council.
13:51:35:00 And in addition to those changes, I wanted to point out
13:51:40:09 another change that the county had requested yesterday.

13:51:50:01 After I submitted the original or the proposed
13:51:55:22 ordinance yesterday to Council.
13:51:57:21 And that change is in section 2-E.
13:52:03:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: On page 3.
13:52:04:09 >> On page 3.
13:52:17:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Are there any comments on that by
13:52:19:24 Council?
13:52:20:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Comments from Council members?
13:52:21:21 None.
13:52:22:04 >> It clarifies the special events.
13:52:24:03 Easement.
13:52:25:24 And section 3-C, which is a comment by Council.
13:52:35:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's new language.
13:52:37:03 Any comments?
13:52:40:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No.
13:52:41:06 Actually, Madam Chair, if I could.
13:52:42:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Um-hum.
13:52:43:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just read C and then D, D-1.
13:52:49:18 That hits it right on the mark.
13:52:51:28 I think that's everybody's intent and good job to all
13:52:54:01 the parties.
13:52:54:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I've been informed that a
13:52:56:06 clean version of the ordinance has been provided to the
13:52:58:06 clerk.
13:52:59:25 >>GWEN MILLER: So we need to close the public hearing.

13:53:01:24 Any other comments?
13:53:04:21 >> Move to close.
13:53:05:24 >> Second.
13:53:06:15 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion to close.
13:53:07:24 All in favor of the motion, aye.
13:53:09:15 [Motion Carried]
13:53:15:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Madam Chair, I'd like to move an
13:53:17:10 ordinance vacating, closing, discontinuing and
13:53:19:10 abandoning a certain right-of-way all that portion of
13:53:22:04 20th Street lying south of Palm Avenue north of 8th
13:53:27:00 Avenue, east of 19th Street and west of 21st Street
13:53:30:27 in plan in addition to Ybor City, a subdivision located
13:53:34:10 in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County, Florida, the
13:53:36:21 same being more fully described in section 2, providing
13:53:40:06 an effective date.
13:53:40:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
13:53:43:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, I appreciate all the work
13:53:45:24 that's gone into this.
13:53:46:28 But I respectfully am going to vote against it.
13:53:49:22 And I wanted to cite policy A-7.4 in our development
13:53:55:01 code, which talks about the redevelopment of Ybor City

13:53:58:06 as an urban village and how important connectivity is
13:54:01:15 to that.
13:54:02:04 And for that reason, I will not be able to support
13:54:04:21 this.

13:54:05:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
13:54:06:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, it's not an easy one.
13:54:08:16 I mean, we all want to support the concepts of the
13:54:11:15 barrio and the grid, but, you know, sometimes we're
13:54:16:21 here to balance and to weigh these issues.
13:54:19:07 And in this case, there's no doubt in my mind that
13:54:23:15 there are important security issues that have to trump
13:54:25:27 historic preservation.
13:54:27:00 But I think that the county and the sheriff have done
13:54:30:09 an excellent job in terms of compromising and
13:54:37:19 mitigating the effects of this and maybe some day for
13:54:40:16 whatever reason the sheriff moves off and we regain the
13:54:43:12 grid again.
13:54:44:04 You know, I think it's a good compromise I'll support.
13:54:51:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to say for the neighbors,
13:54:55:12 residents and the business owners in Ybor City and the
13:54:57:28 barrio Latino, that I'm going to support this, but I
13:55:01:22 did consider it very seriously your objections to it.
13:55:09:27 They are well taken, and I also feel like I need to say
13:55:13:10 I've always been consistent about not supporting
13:55:16:00 vacating streets.
13:55:17:24 In this case, Mr. Miranda is not here for me to
13:55:21:28 compliment him, but he made a very strong argument
13:55:24:24 about the fact that there are so many other areas in
13:55:30:01 Ybor that have been closed and streets closed off for

13:55:34:15 less important things.
13:55:35:18 And I got to say, I wouldn't have voted for vacating
13:55:38:21 those streets for anything, anything other than this.
13:55:41:19 And I have to respect our advice from Chief Hogue and
13:55:45:15 from the sheriff that this is a necessary thing to do.
13:55:48:18 And I just want to say that I plan to be consistent in
13:55:52:18 the future, and I also want to point out that the fact
13:55:55:09 that we do keep closing these streets, that's why we
13:55:58:19 end up with neighborhoods like Ybor that are historic
13:56:02:00 neighborhoods that get carved up and broken up.
13:56:04:18 So I'm making an exception in this case.
13:56:07:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Caetano.
13:56:09:12 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Yes, I heard this morning there's
13:56:10:27 probably no chance of the sheriff's office getting
13:56:12:22 bombed or whatever, and just remember 9/11.
13:56:16:15 Everybody remember that.
13:56:18:13 The security, because the world is crazy.
13:56:21:04 I mean, there are women blowing themselves up.
13:56:23:18 It's terrible.
13:56:24:27 And we need that protection.
13:56:26:21 And I support this 100%.
13:56:29:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Madam Chair, I just want to say in
13:56:32:00 particular thank you, sheriff, and for the staff, Peggy
13:56:35:25 and Susan and our own City Attorney's office for
13:56:39:01 working together real hard to make this happen, and

13:56:42:03 that's what government is all about, working together
13:56:45:28 for the betterment of the community.
13:56:47:24 And so thank you all so very much.
13:56:49:25 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
13:56:51:00 All in favor of that motion, aye.
13:56:53:00 Opposed, nay.
13:56:54:21 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Saul-Sena voting
13:56:57:04 no and Miranda being absent at vote.
13:57:01:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Could we have the announcement of the
13:57:03:09 second reading and public hearing is.

13:57:05:16 >>THE CLERK: The second reading of the ordinance will
13:57:07:21 be February 21st at 9:30 a.m.
13:57:12:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I spoke with David Smith of our
13:57:14:06 Legal Department, and he said that it would be
13:57:17:16 appropriate to ask that our forms be reworked to show
13:57:25:00 when there are responses from the barrio Latino, the
13:57:28:18 architectural review commission or the HPC as part of
13:57:32:10 our staff reports.
13:57:33:10 Because what we have before us was not as complete as
13:57:35:21 it might have been.
13:57:40:15 That's a motion to request, I think it's Ms. Miller's
13:57:43:10 department that creates the form, that they add a line
13:57:46:15 to reflect the different boards or any other board, the
13:57:49:22 variance review board, weighs in on the decision that
13:57:52:27 we'll be needing to make.

13:57:55:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Can I make a friendly amendment?
13:57:57:06 I think that we need to have a staff report and a
13:57:59:24 discussion about this, because I think it's a bigger
13:58:02:10 issue than just putting something on here.
13:58:05:00 This isn't the first time that we've had staff come and
13:58:10:01 make -- give us a written and a verbal recommendation
13:58:14:06 that was not in sync with what the boards had decided,
13:58:20:12 whether it was the A.R.C. or the HPC or, you know, the
13:58:25:22 barrio Latino this time.
13:58:27:22 And I don't think that there should be -- I think when
13:58:31:18 these reports come to us, we shouldn't be getting two
13:58:35:21 different opinions.
13:58:36:13 We need to have a consistent opinion, and we need to
13:58:39:06 decide who is making that recommendation.
13:58:41:06 I think it should be the barrio Latino makes the
13:58:44:04 recommendation.
13:58:44:27 Then our historic preservation department takes the
13:58:48:00 recommendation and makes it to us.
13:58:49:21 They shouldn't be able to vote against the
13:58:52:04 recommendations of the board.
13:58:55:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You mean the staff.
13:58:57:15 >>MARY MULHERN: No, I'm talking about the commission.
13:58:59:00 Okay, for instance, Barrio Latino Commission, if our
13:59:03:24 historic preservation staff has a different opinion,
13:59:07:12 they should not have a different opinion than the

13:59:10:06 recommendation, because --
13:59:13:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Say it again clearer.
13:59:15:16 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
13:59:15:28 The barrio Latino didn't approve this particular.
13:59:21:16 And you pointed out very well, I thought, that it's our
13:59:26:01 job to weigh which factor is more important.
13:59:32:00 From our historic preservation staff to make a
13:59:35:09 determination on something else that contradicts the
13:59:38:16 recommendation of the barrio Latino, that should not
13:59:41:19 happen.
13:59:42:07 That historic district recommendation should be a
13:59:47:25 recommendation from staff and from that board that
13:59:51:27 comes to us.
13:59:53:00 And that's how I feel about it.
13:59:56:28 That's why I think we have to have discussion.
13:59:59:09 I have no idea if this is something that's open to
14:00:04:03 interpretation.
14:00:05:00 Maybe Rebecca would like to weigh in on this.
14:00:09:10 >>Rebecca Kert: Rebecca Kert, Legal Department.
14:00:11:18 I think it would be appropriate for Council to have a
14:00:13:09 discussion on that.
14:00:14:15 Because that's part of some bigger issues and how your
14:00:17:03 entire zoning process and played into your vacating
14:00:21:09 process is set up.
14:00:22:06 I could go into that more, but probably more

14:00:24:27 appropriate for when you set it for discussion.
14:00:27:03 I think that would be appropriate rather than making a
14:00:28:25 final motion today.
14:00:29:24 I think there's a lot of information you would want to
14:00:31:21 consider on that.
14:00:34:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to amend my motion to
14:00:35:24 put it on as a discretion item on February 28th as a
14:00:40:27 workshop.
14:00:41:21 At 10:15, after the discussion.
14:00:45:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have a lot of workshops.
14:00:51:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
14:00:53:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think it's worth discussing.
14:00:55:15 For the record, I differ.
14:00:59:12 I think the most important thing is that we clearly
14:01:02:21 hear from the barrio or the HPC or whatever, but if
14:01:07:13 staff has a different opinion, that's okay, too, and I
14:01:11:28 think we should clearly hear from staff.
14:01:14:12 I don't think we want to squelch much the ability of
14:01:16:21 staff to give us their professional opinion.
14:01:19:28 And sometimes it might differ from that board that we
14:01:22:24 appoint.
14:01:23:12 But I think it needs to be abundantly clear that this
14:01:26:19 is the board's position and this is staff's position.
14:01:29:00 And then we can weigh, just like we weigh everything,
14:01:31:22 we would weigh the two.

14:01:33:21 >>MARY MULHERN: That's why I wanted to have a
14:01:35:21 discussion.
14:01:38:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I with draw the second.
14:01:40:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, then, I'll remake the motion.
14:01:44:28 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll second it for discussion.
14:01:47:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm going to speak to the motion.
14:01:50:15 How many workshops on the 28th?
14:01:55:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Two.
14:01:56:03 One on the charter and one on the comp plan.
14:01:58:21 I'm suggesting this after the comp plan discussion.
14:02:01:12 I don't think it will take that long.
14:02:03:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is the charter going to take more than
14:02:08:15 an hour?
14:02:09:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, it will.
14:02:12:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Is the next one less crowded?
14:02:16:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The next one only has one
14:02:18:00 presentation.
14:02:18:12 So I move that we do this March 27th.
14:02:21:24 9:15.
14:02:27:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:02:29:12 All in favor of the motion, aye.
14:02:30:24 [Motion Carried]
14:02:32:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In the meantime, can't the staff add
14:02:34:07 a line to our report if there is an opinion to make
14:02:36:22 sure it's included.

14:02:39:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe Council had made something
14:02:41:18 similar and has raised that issue in the past.
14:02:45:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But --
14:02:46:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to move on the agenda, I tell
14:02:49:00 you that.
14:02:49:10 Some people have 3:00 meetings.
14:02:51:06 It's 2:00 now.
14:02:52:09 >>GWEN MILLER: We'll move on to our staff reports and
14:02:53:28 unfinished business.
14:02:55:09 Item number 101.
14:02:59:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Was it your decision now to do that?
14:03:02:09 I think you had wanted to do the second reads earlier
14:03:05:27 when you approved the agenda.
14:03:09:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We just did the sheriff thing.
14:03:15:19 >>GWEN MILLER: We have to go to our second readings.
14:03:19:18 That starts on page -- 116.
14:03:26:21 Item 116 through 132.
14:03:37:19 Anyone in the public going to speak on these items,
14:03:41:09 would you please stand and raise your right hand?
14:03:43:21 116 to 134.
14:03:47:24 (Oath administered by clerk).
14:03:53:18 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open items 116 to 134.
14:03:57:00 We have a motion and second.
14:03:58:04 All in favor of the motion, say aye.
14:04:00:04 Opposed, nay.

14:04:00:27 [Motion Carried]
14:04:03:12 >>JILL FINNEY: Land Development Coordination.
14:04:06:12 I have been sworn.
14:04:07:15 I would like to go through the items that have turned
14:04:10:24 in certified site plan.
14:04:12:12 They were required between first and second reading.
14:04:14:21 Number 116.
14:04:20:09 Item number 118.
14:04:22:21 Item number 119.
14:04:24:15 Item 126.
14:04:27:04 128.
14:04:31:12 130, 131 and 132 have all met their responsibility of
14:04:39:15 turning in revised site plans.
14:04:42:01 And item number 129, staff is going to request that be
14:04:51:12 continued for the second reading to February 21st.
14:05:01:15 >>GWEN MILLER: What date is that again?
14:05:03:07 >> February 21st.
14:05:04:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Can I get a motion?
14:05:05:25 Motion and second.
14:05:06:18 All in favor of the motion, aye.
14:05:08:03 [Motion Carried]
14:05:08:25 That's it?
14:05:12:09 >> Yes.
14:05:12:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public who wants
14:05:14:06 to speak on item 116.

14:05:16:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
14:05:17:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second.
14:05:18:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion and second to close.
14:05:19:25 All in favor, aye.
14:05:20:15 [Motion Carried]
14:05:22:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move the following ordinance upon
14:05:25:04 second reading.
14:05:25:24 An ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity
14:05:27:22 of 2342 West Arch Street in the City of Tampa, Florida,
14:05:30:24 more particularly described in section 1 from zoning
14:05:33:06 district classifications RM-16, residential multifamily
14:05:35:09 to PD, planned development, residential, office,
14:05:38:00 personal services, providing an effective date.
14:05:40:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion --
14:05:41:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Sorry, Madam Chair.
14:05:42:06 I want to be clear for the record, please excuse me for
14:05:44:27 interrupting.
14:05:45:15 For the record, did you ask if there was anybody in the
14:05:48:10 audience who wished to speak?
14:05:51:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, sir, I did.
14:05:52:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I apologize.
14:05:53:15 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:05:54:21 Vote and record.
14:06:13:00 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
14:06:15:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public who wants

14:06:17:04 to speak on item 117?
14:06:19:04 We have a motion and second to close.
14:06:22:12 All in favor, aye.
14:06:23:27 Ms. Saul-Sena.
14:06:25:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to make sure that
14:06:27:16 there wasn't anyone in the audience here for 122, which
14:06:31:10 we continued -- whichever one we continued.
14:06:36:09 129, yes, that there wasn't anyone who wanted to --
14:06:40:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Anybody in the public who came to speak
14:06:42:01 on item 129, because it has been continued.
14:06:45:09 129 has been continued if you came to speak on that
14:06:47:21 item.
14:06:48:09 Okay.
14:06:49:06 We had a motion to close.
14:06:52:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 117, move an ordinance upon second
14:06:56:19 reading, an ordinance authorizing the installation and
14:06:59:18 maintenance of encroachments, proposed canopy and
14:07:02:06 portion of an existing building by Postscript
14:07:03:21 Productions, Inc., over portions of the public
14:07:07:00 right-of-way known as east 2nd Avenue and Angel
14:07:09:12 Olivia Senior Street as more particularly described
14:07:13:03 herein, subject to certain terms, covenants, conditions
14:07:15:06 and agreements as more particularly described herein.
14:07:17:13 Providing an effective date.
14:07:18:00 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

14:07:19:06 Vote and record.
14:07:28:15 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously with
14:07:30:16 Caetano being absent at vote.
14:07:32:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public want to
14:07:34:09 speak on item 118?
14:07:36:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
14:07:37:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
14:07:38:03 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion, aye.
14:07:39:18 [Motion Carried]
14:07:41:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
14:07:42:21 Move an ordinance for second reading, on adoption, an
14:07:48:01 ordinance approving a special use permit S-1 on appeal
14:07:51:27 from a decision of the zoning administrator allowing an
14:07:54:07 extended family residence in an RS-60 residential
14:07:58:18 single-family zoning district in the City of Tampa,
14:08:00:09 Florida and more particularly described in section 1,
14:08:03:10 allowing an extended family residence.
14:08:06:00 Providing an effective date.
14:08:06:15 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:08:08:03 Vote and record.
14:08:16:09 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously with
14:08:18:15 Caetano being absent at vote.
14:08:21:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public wants to
14:08:23:22 speak on item 119?
14:08:25:06 Is motion to close.

14:08:27:06 All in favor, aye.
14:08:28:09 [Motion Carried]
14:08:29:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move to adopt the following
14:08:31:03 ordinance upon second reading.
14:08:32:15 An ordinance approving a special use S-2 approving a
14:08:35:22 public service facility in an RS-50 single-family
14:08:41:00 residence zoning district in the general vicinity of
14:08:43:10 3710 west Wisconsin Avenue in the City of Tampa,
14:08:46:27 Florida and more particularly described in section 1
14:08:49:07 hereof, approving waivers as set forth herein,
14:08:52:06 providing an effective date.
14:08:52:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and a second.
14:08:54:19 Vote and record.
14:09:02:21 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
14:09:05:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public who wants
14:09:07:00 to speak on item 120?
14:09:09:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
14:09:10:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:09:11:01 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor, aye.
14:09:12:06 Ms. Saul-Sena.
14:09:13:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Madam Chairman.
14:09:15:25 I'd like to move an ordinance for second reading.
14:09:18:12 An ordinance making lawful the sale of beverages
14:09:20:12 regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine and liquor,
14:09:23:19 4(COP-X) for consumption on premises only at or from

14:09:27:24 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 512
14:09:31:15 East Hillsborough Avenue, Tampa, Florida, as more
14:09:34:09 particularly described in section 2 hereof, waiving
14:09:36:16 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
14:09:39:04 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
14:09:42:09 conflict, providing an effective date.
14:09:43:13 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and a second.
14:09:44:27 Vote and record.
14:09:47:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is the one we debated heavily on
14:09:49:12 that's across the street from that church.
14:09:51:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Right.
14:09:52:18 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Scott voting no.
14:09:55:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me, Madam Chairman.
14:09:57:12 My printout says unanimous, and it wasn't unanimous.
14:10:03:10 And I voted against it the last time.
14:10:05:18 I listened to Reverend Scott, and it just didn't
14:10:08:06 trigger.
14:10:08:21 Could we please have a revote on that.
14:10:11:12 I don't know who types the minutes on this, but this
14:10:13:21 isn't right.
14:10:15:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move to have a revote.
14:10:16:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
14:10:17:18 All in favor, aye.
14:10:20:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And I shouldn't read this if I'm
14:10:22:03 going to vote against it.

14:10:24:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
14:10:27:27 An ordinance making lawful the sale of beverages
14:10:31:13 regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine and liquor,
14:10:34:21 4(COP-X) for consumption on premises only at or from
14:10:39:03 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 512
14:10:43:12 East Hillsborough Avenue, Tampa, Florida, as more
14:10:45:25 particularly described in section 2 hereof, waiving
14:10:48:00 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
14:10:51:12 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
14:10:54:18 conflict, providing an effective date.
14:10:55:28 >> This is sangria's.
14:10:57:19 The one next to Starbucks.
14:10:59:24 It was unanimous.
14:11:00:21 This is on the west side.
14:11:03:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for the clarification.
14:11:05:19 City clerk, you got it right.
14:11:10:22 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of that motion, vote and
14:11:12:21 record.
14:11:17:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you for that clarification.
14:11:20:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Come back every week so you can --
14:11:27:21 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
14:11:30:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public want to
14:11:31:27 speak on item 121?
14:11:33:28 Motion to close.
14:11:36:27 All in favor, aye.

14:11:38:07 Opposed, nay.
14:11:39:07 Ms. Saul-Sena.
14:11:40:18 You can read that.
14:11:43:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 121.
14:11:44:18 I'd like to move the following ordinance for second
14:11:47:00 reading and adoption.
14:11:47:25 An ordinance making lawful the sale of beverages
14:11:49:18 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not
14:11:52:06 more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of
14:11:55:06 alcoholic content -- beer and wine -- 2(COP) for
14:11:59:04 consumption on premises and in sealed containers for
14:12:02:03 consumption off premises at or from that certain lot,
14:12:04:25 plot or tract of land located at 243 east Davis
14:12:08:00 Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly
14:12:10:10 described in section 2 hereof.
14:12:11:28 Waiving certain restrictions as to distance based upon
14:12:14:15 certain findings; providing for repeal of all
14:12:17:03 ordinances in conflict; providing an effective date.
14:12:19:03 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:12:20:13 Vote and record.
14:12:30:21 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
14:12:33:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public wants to
14:12:35:21 speak on item 122.
14:12:37:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
14:12:39:16 >> Second.

14:12:40:01 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor to close, aye.
14:12:42:18 Ms. Saul-Sena, would you lead it.
14:12:44:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move the following
14:12:45:28 ordinance for second reading and adoption.
14:12:47:16 An ordinance making lawful the sale of beverages
14:12:49:21 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not
14:12:53:00 more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of
14:12:56:00 alcoholic content, beer and wine, 2(COP-R) for
14:12:59:09 consumption on the premises only in connection with a
14:13:02:04 restaurant business establishment on that certain lot,
14:13:04:07 plot or tract of land located at 8502 North Armenia
14:13:08:03 Avenue, units 1A and 1B, Tampa Florida, as more
14:13:16:21 particularly described in section 2 hereof, waiving
14:13:18:24 certain restrictions as to distance, based upon certain
14:13:22:00 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
14:13:24:21 conflict, providing an effective date.
14:13:26:09 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:13:27:13 Vote and record.
14:13:30:12 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
14:13:33:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone in the public want to speak on
14:13:34:25 item 123?
14:13:40:25 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion to close.
14:13:42:03 All in favor, aye.
14:13:43:24 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: An ordinance being presented for
14:13:45:09 second reading.

14:13:45:28 An ordinance making lawful the sale of beverages
14:13:48:09 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not
14:13:51:00 more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of
14:13:54:21 alcoholic content, beer and wine, 2(COP-R) for
14:13:58:15 consumption on the premises only in connection with a
14:14:01:10 restaurant business establishment on that certain lot,
14:14:03:16 plot, or tract of land located at 1239 East Kennedy
14:14:06:12 Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly
14:14:09:25 described in section 2 hereof; waiving certain
14:14:13:25 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
14:14:16:15 findings; providing for repeal of all ordinances in
14:14:20:12 conflict; providing an effective date.
14:14:23:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby.
14:14:25:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Caetano, that is a motion to
14:14:26:27 adopt, is that correct?
14:14:28:10 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Yes.
14:14:29:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:14:30:27 Vote and record.
14:14:38:21 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
14:14:41:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public want to
14:14:42:28 speak on item 124?
14:14:44:27 Have a motion and second to close.
14:14:50:03 All in favor, aye.
14:14:52:22 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: An ordinance for adoption -- being
14:14:55:15 presented for -- oh, this is second reading.

14:14:57:19 An ordinance making lawful the sale of beverages
14:14:59:15 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not
14:15:02:04 more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of
14:15:05:16 alcoholic content, beer and wine, 2(COP-R) for
14:15:09:21 consumption on the premises only in connection with a
14:15:12:24 restaurant business establishment on that certain lot,
14:15:15:21 plot, or tract of land located at 4422 north Hubert
14:15:19:21 Avenue, Tampa, Florida, and more particularly described
14:15:22:07 in section 2 hereof, waiving certain restrictions as to
14:15:25:15 distance based upon certain findings, providing for
14:15:28:00 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
14:15:30:07 effective date.
14:15:34:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Did we get a second?
14:15:36:10 >> Second.
14:15:36:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
14:15:37:18 Vote and record.
14:15:47:04 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Miranda and
14:15:49:15 Saul-Sena voting no.
14:15:52:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public want to
14:15:54:18 speak on item 125?
14:15:58:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move to close.
14:15:59:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:16:00:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion and second to close.
14:16:01:21 All in favor, aye.
14:16:02:18 Ms. Mulhern, would you read that, please?

14:16:07:19 >>MARY MULHERN: 125?
14:16:08:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
14:16:09:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented for
14:16:11:04 second reading, an ordinance rezoning property in the
14:16:13:07 general vicinity of 8311 and 8315 north 37th Street
14:16:18:12 in the City of Tampa, Florida and more particularly
14:16:20:10 described in section 1 from zoning district
14:16:23:00 classification RS-60, residential single-family, to
14:16:25:18 RS-50, residential single-family; providing an
14:16:28:21 effective date.
14:16:29:15 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and a second.
14:16:31:09 Vote and record.
14:16:45:28 >> I pushed the wrong button.
14:16:50:18 >> Want us to vote again?
14:17:04:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Vote and record.
14:17:16:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Romney dropped out.
14:17:19:07 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Saul-Sena voting
14:17:22:06 no.
14:17:23:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public want to
14:17:25:10 speak on item 126?
14:17:26:24 Motion to close.
14:17:29:16 All in favor of the motion.
14:17:32:21 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to ask advice on this.
14:17:35:03 I wasn't here for the first vote.
14:17:37:06 But I wanted to disclose that my husband, the property

14:17:44:00 that is asking for rezoning was a client of my
14:17:49:16 husband's indirectly.
14:17:51:03 He subcontracted for the agency that did the marketing
14:17:56:18 for this, so I'm asking your advice.
14:17:59:09 If you feel that I should recuse myself.
14:18:02:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Based on our discussion and the facts
14:18:04:06 you provided to me, it is my opinion that it would not
14:18:07:15 inure to your private special gain or benefit or that
14:18:10:15 of your husband.
14:18:11:13 In any case, it would be highly remote and speculative,
14:18:15:18 it is my opinion under Florida law you are required to
14:18:18:22 vote.
14:18:22:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented for
14:18:27:25 second reading. An ordinance rezoning property in the
14:18:28:21 general vicinity of 5000 West Gandy Boulevard in the
14:18:35:04 City of Tampa, Florida, and more particularly described
14:18:37:21 in section 1, from zoning district classifications
14:18:40:01 PD-A, planned development alternative office, retail
14:18:43:21 restaurant, hotel, residential to PD-A, planned
14:18:47:12 development alternative, office, retail, hotel,
14:18:49:27 residential, general commercial, marina.
14:18:51:25 Providing an effective date.
14:18:52:18 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:18:53:22 Vote and record.
14:19:00:06 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.

14:19:03:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena.
14:19:04:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
14:19:05:04 I was wondering if we could get a report in, let's say,
14:19:08:09 60 days from our Real Estate Department about whether
14:19:12:15 the roads that were disassembled for this construction,
14:19:16:19 what their status is.
14:19:19:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
14:19:19:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
14:19:20:16 All in favor, aye.
14:19:21:21 [Motion Carried]
14:19:22:13 Anyone in the public want to speak on item 127?
14:19:26:06 >> Move to close.
14:19:26:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion to close.
14:19:28:01 All in favor of the motion, aye.
14:19:29:21 Reverend Scott.
14:19:31:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Madam Chair.
14:19:31:24 I'd like to move an ordinance being presented upon
14:19:34:12 second reading, an ordinance rezoning property in the
14:19:36:18 general vicinity of 8601 north Florida Avenue in the
14:19:39:18 City of Tampa, Florida, and more particularly described
14:19:41:24 in section 1, from zoning district classifications PD,
14:19:45:18 planned development, restaurant use, to CI, commercial
14:19:49:15 intensive; providing an effective date.
14:19:52:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and a second.
14:19:55:24 Vote and record.

14:19:56:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:20:18:18 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
14:20:21:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public want to
14:20:23:07 speak on item number 28?
14:20:24:27 -- on item number 128?
14:20:28:06 Motion to close.
14:20:29:00 All in favor, aye.
14:20:30:03 Reverend Scott.
14:20:31:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'd like to move an ordinance presented
14:20:33:13 upon second reading, an ordinance rezoning property in
14:20:36:00 the general vicinity of 2316 West Lemon Street and 522
14:20:40:03 North Howard Avenue in the City of Tampa, Florida, and
14:20:42:16 more particularly described in section 1 from zoning
14:20:45:09 district classification RM-16, residential multifamily,
14:20:48:12 to PD, planned development, residential, office,
14:20:52:15 personal services, hotel, retail; providing an
14:20:56:21 effective date.
14:20:57:06 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and a second.
14:20:59:04 Vote and record.
14:21:05:06 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
14:21:07:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public want to
14:21:09:01 speak on item 130?
14:21:10:19 Motion to close.
14:21:14:06 All in favor of the motion, aye.
14:21:19:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move the following ordinance

14:21:21:24 upon second reading.
14:21:23:12 An ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity
14:21:25:04 of 8732 North 46th Street in the City of Tampa,
14:21:31:06 Florida, more particularly described in section 1 from
14:21:33:24 zoning district classification RM-24, residential
14:21:36:15 multifamily to PD planned development day care/school;
14:21:42:04 providing an effective date.
14:21:42:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
14:21:43:22 Vote and record.
14:21:48:18 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
14:21:50:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public want to
14:21:52:19 speak on item 131?
14:21:55:06 Motion to close.
14:21:56:01 All in favor of the motion, say aye.
14:21:58:00 Mr. Miranda.
14:21:59:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
14:22:00:18 I move to adopt the following ordinance upon second
14:22:03:16 reading.
14:22:03:24 An ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity
14:22:05:15 of 1206 East Curtis Street in the City of Tampa,
14:22:08:13 Florida, more particularly described in section 1 from
14:22:10:16 zoning district classifications RS-50 residential
14:22:13:07 single-family to PD, planned development, residential,
14:22:15:25 single-family detached; providing an effective date.
14:22:18:09 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and a second.

14:22:19:24 Vote and record.
14:22:27:15 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
14:22:29:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public want to
14:22:31:15 speak on item 132?
14:22:33:09 Motion to close.
14:22:34:24 All in favor of the motion, aye.
14:22:36:24 Ms. Saul-Sena.
14:22:38:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like to move an ordinance for
14:22:40:00 second reading and adoption.
14:22:41:27 Rezoning property in the general vicinity of 4108 East
14:22:45:06 Ellicott Street in the City of Tampa, Florida and more
14:22:47:24 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
14:22:49:19 district classifications RS-50, residential
14:22:52:03 single-family, to PD, planned development, child care
14:22:54:28 center; providing an effective date.
14:22:56:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and a second.
14:22:58:10 Vote and record.
14:23:06:18 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
14:23:09:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public want to
14:23:11:06 speak on item 133?
14:23:16:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't know if I'm in the correct
14:23:18:15 mode, but when chapter 22 addresses streets and
14:23:21:15 sidewalks, although I'm all for sidewalks, I think in
14:23:24:24 my own -- and I need a legal opinion -- when a piece of
14:23:29:06 property borders something that you cannot put a

14:23:32:01 sidewalk on the city right-of-way as it specifies in
14:23:35:09 the law, and that's what I think the law is, maybe the
14:23:37:28 Legal Department can correct me, and then you tell the
14:23:40:22 petitioner, no matter who they are, if it's a homeowner
14:23:44:00 who wants to expand their house or a new project that
14:23:46:27 you must put the sidewalk on your property, I believe
14:23:51:21 that's against the law.
14:23:52:28 When you look at some ditches in the areas that I
14:23:56:12 represent, some residents, I should say, have ditches
14:23:59:27 that cover the complete length of the right-of-way.
14:24:02:00 So then I am to assume that you walk a mile in the
14:24:05:16 center of the street, you see a strip of sidewalk,
14:24:07:24 60-foot long, you jump the ditch to walk 60 feet, and
14:24:12:03 you jump the ditch again to leave.
14:24:14:09 And in that constant, you cost that owner five or six
14:24:17:22 thousand dollars to put a sidewalk on their own
14:24:20:16 property because they are enforcing that.
14:24:22:19 When the new development -- am I in the wrong place or
14:24:25:07 the right place?
14:24:27:01 Is this still City Hall?
14:24:29:00 I got confused when I saw Scott and Ferlita.
14:24:36:13 I thought I was at the county commission.
14:24:39:15 >> Julie, Legal Department.
14:24:41:01 I was in the other room, but I understand what the
14:24:43:04 other question is as it relates to sidewalks and where

14:24:45:12 they need to be placed.
14:24:46:18 The way our code reads today, the requirement for
14:24:50:03 sidewalks -- to having the sidewalk placed within the
14:24:54:21 existing right-of-way, and it goes on to indicate as
14:24:57:07 part of our code that if it is determined that it is
14:25:00:19 not feasible to place the sidewalk within the
14:25:03:03 right-of-way, then there is a requirement to pay an in
14:25:07:00 lieu fee.
14:25:08:03 That is the way the code is drafted today.
14:25:11:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So then let me understand this.
14:25:13:07 There's no appeal in sidewalks.
14:25:17:03 >>JULIA COLE: Meaning that if you are required to pay
14:25:19:06 the in lieu fee --
14:25:21:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Who do you appeal to if you don't
14:25:23:18 want to pay it?
14:25:25:09 >>JULIA COLE: It's one or the other the way the code is
14:25:27:15 drafted.
14:25:28:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have appeal hearings here just as
14:25:30:28 often as I have workshops.
14:25:33:00 What I'm saying is, I think the law is errored.
14:25:37:01 And on the side of caution, if I was a property owner,
14:25:40:04 and you tell me that because I can't put a sidewalk
14:25:42:27 because there's a ditch or an oil field or something
14:25:47:06 next to my property, that I either put it on my
14:25:49:24 property or I have to pay for somebody else for that

14:25:52:27 benefit, I believe that's an injustice to the
14:25:55:21 individual homeowner that I'm taking a piece of
14:25:58:12 property without payment to that homeowner instead of
14:26:01:18 them paying me, we ought to pay them to put the
14:26:06:03 sidewalk on their land.

14:26:07:06 Because that's their land, and we're forcing them.
14:26:10:12 They want to do the right thing, but they can't.
14:26:12:27 So now because they can't because of environmental or
14:26:17:10 natural or that's the way the city was built 125 years
14:26:21:09 ago, now we're saying, pay the bank, but collect no go
14:26:25:21 and you get no interest on your money.
14:26:27:21 Somebody else.
14:26:28:15 I'm going to be the benefactor of somebody else paying
14:26:31:03 into the fund and not getting a sidewalk, me, and I got
14:26:34:06 to pay for somebody else, I think that's 125% wrong.
14:26:40:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I thought that we had a workshop
14:26:42:19 on the issue, and I thought Ms. Miller had addressed
14:26:45:28 that.
14:26:46:13 Ms. Miller, am I accurate on that or am I wrong?
14:26:50:00 I thought the whole issue was raised when I talked
14:26:52:09 about affordable housing and the sidewalks and all
14:26:54:15 that, couldn't be done.
14:26:56:00 >> Cindy Miller, director of growth management
14:26:58:16 development services.
14:26:59:01 We did talk about that and talk about putting that into

14:27:01:27 legislation.
14:27:02:09 However, this particular ordinance, my understanding
14:27:04:07 from Ms. Cole does not include that language.
14:27:06:28 That will come as a subsequent piece of legislation.
14:27:10:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anybody know when it's coming back to
14:27:12:15 us?
14:27:13:15 >> It should be coming back probably in March.
14:27:16:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So I know the issue that Councilman
14:27:19:06 Miranda raises, we discussed that, and we said that was
14:27:22:24 a cure for that.
14:27:24:01 >> Yes, that's correct.
14:27:28:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me see if my memory is correct
14:27:30:18 because my hair is gone, but that only addresses
14:27:33:27 affordable housing.
14:27:34:22 So now we're even complicating more things by giving a
14:27:38:12 sector of society something and the rest of society
14:27:41:00 not.
14:27:42:04 >> We were looking at it from a dollar amount of a
14:27:46:00 house, not necessarily where, say, something in our
14:27:49:04 programs.
14:27:49:15 We're looking at if the construction cost on the
14:27:51:19 particular home was, say, $150,000, we were still
14:27:54:18 trying to work out that exact dollar amount.
14:27:56:16 That's one reason we haven't come back with the
14:27:58:21 ordinance yet.

14:27:59:09 It was not something where it had a -- it would be for
14:28:03:15 any house in the City of Tampa that had that type of
14:28:05:18 construction.
14:28:07:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Do you have any idea, is it going to
14:28:09:18 be before my term ends?
14:28:11:12 >> I would anticipate probably next month, during the
14:28:13:25 month of March.
14:28:15:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
14:28:15:24 I won't resign for 60 days.
14:28:20:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You guys have totally confused me.
14:28:22:13 Kathy, tell us what this ordinance we're about to vote
14:28:26:25 on for second reading, remind us what this does.
14:28:31:21 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Catherine Coyle, Land Development.
14:28:33:13 This is a quick amendment that addresses the processing
14:28:36:03 issues for vacating petitions.
14:28:37:18 Right now, they are filed at the city clerk and
14:28:40:00 processed through City Council.
14:28:41:09 So someone in your office is actually helping process
14:28:43:18 that, and then it finally wound up in Land
14:28:45:28 Development's office at a later date, and there were
14:28:48:27 always scheduling issues.
14:28:50:03 This just changes it so that the petition is submitted
14:28:52:10 to Land Development, and we actually process it.
14:28:54:28 That's all the change is.
14:28:56:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In conformance with everything else

14:28:58:12 we do.
14:28:59:25 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Exactly.
14:29:00:13 Every other petition comes to us, that's what this
14:29:03:19 does.
14:29:04:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Catherine.
14:29:06:16 When we get to the other sidewalk issue --
14:29:09:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern.
14:29:10:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was following up.
14:29:11:15 When we get to the other sidewalk issue that you were
14:29:13:28 discussing, Charlie, I hear what you're saying.
14:29:16:27 I think we have to have a long discussion about it in
14:29:19:00 terms of the merits of the sidewalk fund and what we've
14:29:22:27 accomplished and that sort of thing.
14:29:24:16 So I don't know -- when that comes back to us in
14:29:27:18 ordinance form, I'd like to see it perhaps workshopped.
14:29:34:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: May I say one other thing?
14:29:36:03 And I appreciate what you're saying, Mr. Dingfelder,
14:29:38:10 and I quite understand it.
14:29:40:06 This is the only part of city government that there is
14:29:44:15 no plan.
14:29:46:06 When you look at street -- they say these streets are
14:29:50:09 A, C, D and they have a plan, where they number them,
14:29:53:12 who needs to be resurfaced, who needs to have work
14:29:56:00 done.
14:29:56:12 But this money goes into the fund, and they don't say

14:29:59:09 in the year 2007, we're going to do this street and
14:30:02:12 this street and this street.
14:30:03:28 That's not done.
14:30:05:09 It's done by hoops and hollers and I have nothing
14:30:10:09 against the administration.
14:30:11:01 That's the way it's been.
14:30:12:13 Helter-skelter, and there is no design that I know
14:30:15:15 of -- there might be one that I'm not aware of, but
14:30:19:12 there's no design for building sidewalks.
14:30:22:09 And when you have a two or three-block area and you
14:30:25:24 have one empty lot, so now you have one strip of
14:30:28:22 sidewalk and instead of saying, listen, when we do that
14:30:31:10 one strip, we'll do the whole strip, that's not done.
14:30:34:03 So they have one strip.
14:30:35:13 I'll never see the sidewalk in my lifetime on that
14:30:39:18 street.
14:30:39:28 It won't happen, especially at $42 or whatever it is a
14:30:43:15 linear foot.
14:30:44:15 That's not going to happen.
14:30:46:09 We're not helping anyone.
14:30:48:00 We're not helping ourselves and we're not helping the
14:30:50:21 people that want -- if you have any sense at all and
14:30:54:19 you were going to spend on your house and want to make
14:30:57:15 it 50% bigger, you make it 48 so you don't have to kick
14:31:01:12 in the other amenities that you have to do.

14:31:04:00 That's what I'm bringing up.
14:31:05:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to support Mr. Miranda on this,
14:31:08:01 because whenever I bring it up, people jump all over
14:31:10:24 me.
14:31:11:09 Every time I say sidewalk and sidewalk fund, and I
14:31:13:27 think that it just seems at the very least, the people
14:31:17:22 who can't possibly put in a sidewalk should not be
14:31:20:15 charged.
14:31:21:06 So I agree with you on that.
14:31:23:12 Whether we need to go -- we probably do need to revisit
14:31:26:15 the whole thing, as Mr. Dingfelder was saying, about
14:31:29:28 the fund.
14:31:31:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's a big policy decision, because
14:31:33:18 there are other examples where you get six or seven new
14:31:39:18 houses on a block, and now they've got sidewalks, and
14:31:43:25 then pretty soon the city will fill it in.
14:31:47:04 I believe I've seen examples of that, and I would
14:31:50:12 hope -- Tony is in the back there, head of public
14:31:52:24 works, that he and Jan Washington would bring us some
14:31:55:15 of those examples of why and how the sidewalk system is
14:31:58:12 working.
14:31:58:27 And in part, it's working because we've created a
14:32:01:19 viable fund.
14:32:02:21 But it's not on our agenda today, so we'll discuss it
14:32:07:03 another day.

14:32:10:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
14:32:11:07 We need to close.
14:32:13:03 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Charlie answered my question.
14:32:15:09 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion to close.
14:32:16:12 All in favor, aye.
14:32:18:03 [Motion Carried]
14:32:21:21 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: 133, an ordinance presented for
14:32:23:24 second reading, an ordinance of the City of Tampa,
14:32:26:18 Florida, making comprehensive revisions to chapter 22,
14:32:29:06 streets and sidewalks code, of the City of Tampa Code
14:32:31:15 of ordinances amending section 22-34, petition for
14:32:35:04 vacating streets and alleys, generally amending section
14:32:38:13 22-35, same form; address: Amending section 22-36,
14:32:45:10 same contents; amending section 22-37, same filing:
14:32:51:09 Number of copies required; amending section 22-38, same
14:32:55:13 procedure on receipt; amending section 22-39, same
14:32:58:27 hearing date; signs; amending section 22-40,
14:33:05:19 application of chapter to City Council proceedings; and
14:33:09:22 amending section 22-59, vacating streets and alleys;
14:33:13:28 payment of costs, expenses, providing for repeal of all
14:33:17:09 ordinances in conflict; providing for severability;
14:33:21:18 providing an effective date.
14:33:22:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
14:33:23:06 I'm going to vote for it.
14:33:27:28 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

14:33:29:03 Vote and record.
14:33:36:24 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
14:33:40:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 134 we need to remove from the
14:33:43:06 agenda.
14:33:43:25 It's already been removed.
14:33:46:00 Okay.
14:33:59:03 >> 136 I think we can read.
14:34:01:21 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
14:34:02:06 We go to item 136.
14:34:06:03 >>Rebecca Kert: City Council continued this hearing to
14:34:07:28 allow the applicants to meet with staff to reevaluate
14:34:10:09 what the request was.
14:34:12:10 They indicated to me that they would like to reduce
14:34:15:22 their requested to a 2(COP) if, in fact, they indicate
14:34:18:18 that to City Council and City Council wants to move
14:34:20:21 forward, I have an ordinance ready to that effect, but
14:34:23:00 they need to speak to that on the record.
14:34:26:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Goody Girls, come to speak.
14:34:31:13 >> Goody Girls, vice president.
14:34:38:00 >> My partner and I would like to request to downgrade
14:34:40:21 from 4(COP) to 2(COP).
14:34:44:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Any questions from Council members?
14:34:46:15 Move to close then.
14:34:48:06 We have a motion and second to close.
14:34:49:21 Anyone in the public want to speak on that item?

14:34:52:09 We have a motion to close.
14:34:53:09 All in favor of the motion, aye.
14:34:56:00 [Motion Carried]
14:34:56:21 Do we have a new ordinance?
14:35:06:16 >>MARY MULHERN: Move an ordinance upon first reading,
14:35:08:22 an ordinance making lawful the sale of beverage
14:35:10:27 containing alcohol or more than 1% of more than 1% by
14:35:16:13 weight and not more than 14% by weight and wines
14:35:19:06 regardless of alcoholic content, beer and wine, 2(COP)
14:35:23:09 for consumption on premises and in sealed containers
14:35:25:22 for consumption off premises at or from that certain
14:35:29:03 lot, plot or tract of land located at 516 North Tampa
14:35:31:28 Street, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described
14:35:34:27 in section 2, hereof; waiving certain restrictions as
14:35:38:06 to distance based upon certain findings; providing for
14:35:40:28 repeal of all ordinances in conflict; providing an
14:35:43:19 effective date.
14:35:44:07 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and a second.
14:35:45:25 All in favor of the motion, say aye.
14:35:50:06 [Motion Carried]
14:35:51:19 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously, the second
14:35:54:06 reading of the ordinance will be held February the
14:35:56:12 21st at 9:30 a.m.
14:35:58:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Now we go back to staff reports.
14:36:01:06 Item 101.

14:36:05:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 99?
14:36:07:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We didn't do 99.
14:36:09:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Why you all didn't get to that?
14:36:11:10 All right.
14:36:11:21 99.
14:36:12:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
14:36:13:28 Here is my suggestion on this due to the lateness of
14:36:18:09 the hour and also the lateness in which you got my
14:36:21:03 so-called matrix.
14:36:23:09 I'd like to suggest that we have kind of a, probably a
14:36:29:03 15-minute, 15 to 30-minute discussion on this item.
14:36:33:06 It's not simple.
14:36:36:00 There are about 10 decision points that we've
14:36:39:00 identified that need to be made.
14:36:40:22 And here are the two choices I came up with.
14:36:44:12 We could either do it -- Reverend Scott, what does the
14:36:48:15 CRA meeting look like next week?
14:36:50:28 Do you have any idea?
14:36:52:09 The CRA meeting next week, is it short?
14:36:55:00 Does it exist?
14:36:56:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I was going to put an item on there,
14:37:06:09 the NFL report.
14:37:08:03 But it's not a long meeting.
14:37:10:09 We are going to recognize those, so we should be
14:37:15:09 through by 10:00, 10:30.

14:37:17:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: After the CRA meeting, adjourn CRA,
14:37:20:06 come back as regular Council, defer this item, 99, and
14:37:24:10 the discussion. It will give everybody a week to read
14:37:27:16 everything that we've been given on this.
14:37:29:19 And hopefully go forward with something.
14:37:31:18 So that would be my motion.
14:37:33:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:37:34:12 I have a question.
14:37:35:21 I've gotten letters from people about green ordinances.
14:37:42:22 Would it be your intention, Council member Dingfelder
14:37:48:09 to have public input or not?
14:37:50:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would lean toward public input
14:37:53:12 since it's not a workshop.
14:37:54:22 It's a regular Council meeting.
14:37:59:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, that was one of my questions
14:38:01:09 whether it would be set as a workshop or -- in effect
14:38:03:27 it is a special per your rules a special council
14:38:06:21 meeting, because Council normally does not meet on that
14:38:09:15 day.
14:38:09:22 It meets at night, and you do have other items in the
14:38:12:18 evening meeting.
14:38:13:10 So I just want to remind Council, especially
14:38:16:16 considering that the administration -- at least counsel
14:38:20:22 wants to make clear this is Council's motion, that the
14:38:23:06 administration should not assume that Council is in

14:38:26:12 effect going back to the regular schedule of meeting
14:38:29:22 each week.
14:38:31:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, this is special.
14:38:33:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Only because I had a feeling the CRA
14:38:35:03 meeting would be short.
14:38:36:06 We should be done maybe by 10 -- 10:00, 10:30 and
14:38:42:03 squeeze it in for another hour or so with this and the
14:38:46:21 Super Bowl.
14:38:47:06 So the question was, account public speak?
14:38:51:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's a regular meeting.
14:38:53:07 Either waive your rules or open it up for public
14:38:55:18 comment if it's a regular meeting.
14:38:57:19 What you're going to have to do is adjourn as CRA, take
14:39:01:12 off that hat and convene a special meeting of the City
14:39:04:06 Council.
14:39:04:18 It's not really a regular meeting because it doesn't
14:39:10:19 meet on a regular meeting day is what I'm saying.
14:39:14:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can we take votes also?
14:39:18:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: As long as you have a quorum.
14:39:23:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I have a question.
14:39:25:06 John, councilman Dingfelder, I just got this so I
14:39:29:18 haven't had a chance to read it.
14:39:34:15 You're taking both yours and the administration, and

14:39:36:27 you --
14:39:37:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: They are synthesized together.

14:39:39:22 And my comments are in blue.
14:39:42:03 The administration's comments are in red to make it
14:39:45:10 easier to read.
14:39:47:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for your work.
14:39:49:18 Question on the motion.
14:39:51:22 I seconded it.
14:39:57:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I made the motion.
14:39:59:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I seconded that.
14:40:02:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: What time is that?
14:40:04:04 >>THE CLERK: 10:15.
14:40:05:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can we adjourn it for -- what time
14:40:07:28 do you want to make it?
14:40:11:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me talk about the NFL when we come
14:40:13:12 to new business and then we can set the time on both of
14:40:16:07 them.
14:40:17:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Just save it for Thursday, following
14:40:20:00 the CRA meeting.
14:40:22:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Why don't you hold the motion until
14:40:23:24 Tom talks about the NFL.
14:40:25:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
14:40:26:15 The motion is held.
14:40:27:22 Now we'll do 101.
14:40:31:16 Who will do item 101?
14:40:38:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Karen's memo basically says staff is
14:40:41:16 okay with renaming that field.

14:40:46:09 I can't remember --
14:40:48:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Cedric mills.
14:40:49:15 Make a motion that we name the Lincoln gardens football
14:40:56:07 field after Cedric mills.
14:41:01:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Actually ended up being the football
14:41:03:13 field even though the agenda says baseball.
14:41:06:21 There's a motion and second.
14:41:07:28 Any discussion on the motion?
14:41:09:09 I think it's very commendable.
14:41:11:15 All in favor of the motion, aye.
14:41:13:03 Any opposed?
14:41:14:15 The motion passes.
14:41:16:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
14:41:17:01 Item 102.
14:41:21:12 >> Good afternoon, Madam Chair and Council members.
14:41:24:16 Gregory Hart, manager of minority business development.
14:41:28:03 I'm here to speak on item 102.
14:41:30:12 At your January 24th workshop on the draft equal
14:41:33:15 business opportunity ordinance, perhaps better known as
14:41:35:24 the minority business enterprise and small business
14:41:38:15 enterprise ordinance, you had provided us with a list
14:41:43:12 of comments, specifically those comments came from
14:41:47:09 councilman Scott and Council collectively echoed those

14:41:51:12 comments and provided them to staff.
14:41:55:15 Subsequently, I have provided those comments to City

14:41:59:00 Attorney David Smith and assistant City Attorney Toyin
14:42:00:28 Aina-Hargrett.
14:42:04:01 We conferred over it and have the City Attorney's
14:42:07:19 office speak to where we are on addressing them within
14:42:10:06 the actual draft ordinance.
14:42:16:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's save a little time here, Madam
14:42:18:09 Chair.
14:42:18:21 Let me just say that I have a memorandum from
14:42:21:15 Mr. Smith's office through Mrs. Hargrett, and our City
14:42:25:15 Council that we have movement.
14:42:27:06 I want to thank you all on this.
14:42:29:15 I do have a few concerns, but I will tell you we have
14:42:33:06 movement on the -- if you have that.
14:42:36:03 Number two, we have no -- while I do recognize that we
14:42:39:06 do not have any jurisdiction over the administrative
14:42:42:00 staff there, the whole idea is for support for that
14:42:46:12 particular office and for that manager so that gives
14:42:50:04 validity and strength to that position.
14:42:55:07 Number two, we don't have any real say-so.
14:42:58:18 Number three is fine.
14:43:00:12 Number four is excellent.
14:43:02:00 That's on the bid bonds.
14:43:03:15 I think that's very good.
14:43:05:01 I do have concern on number 5.
14:43:07:21 I think that's a misunderstanding that you might have

14:43:10:22 misinterpreted what I was saying there.
14:43:12:21 Number five.
14:43:13:10 Number six, I still have an issue with that.
14:43:15:24 And number eight and nine, still some concern.
14:43:18:25 Now, what I would like to do, Madam Chair, I'd like to
14:43:21:18 make a motion and take Mr. Smith up on his offer to sit
14:43:26:06 down and meet with he along with our attorney,
14:43:31:24 Mr. Shelby, and work out any language, other issues,
14:43:37:01 and bring this back for the first reading in March.
14:43:39:27 And that way hopefully we can work out any -- my
14:43:46:27 biggest interest still is number six, but I think we
14:43:50:18 can get on where we need to be working on the language
14:43:53:16 and pointing out a few things.
14:43:55:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Scott, again, I think I think
14:43:58:06 speak on behalf of Council and we appreciate your
14:44:00:12 yeoman's work on this, obviously putting a lot of work
14:44:03:21 into it.

14:44:06:00 And I support all of that.
14:44:08:03 I read it yesterday.
14:44:09:10 Your comments and staff's response is heading in the
14:44:12:06 right direction.
14:44:13:09 The only question I had, Toyin, is my recollection was
14:44:19:25 in addition to Councilman Scott's comments, weren't
14:44:24:24 there some other comments from Council during the last
14:44:27:03 meeting that didn't necessarily get codified into

14:44:30:18 Councilman Scott's comments.
14:44:32:19 And I want to make sure, go back and look at the
14:44:35:03 minutes and pick up on those questions so we don't
14:44:37:15 leave them behind.
14:44:38:18 I don't remember what they are right this second, but I
14:44:40:28 remember there were some other comments from Council.
14:44:43:22 >> Good afternoon.
14:44:45:06 Assistant City Attorney Toyin Aina-Hargrett.
14:44:47:27 I took good notes, but I could have missed something.
14:44:51:13 But I'll go back to the transcript and make sure we
14:44:53:24 didn't miss any of your other concerns.
14:44:57:00 It was wonderful to have a document from Councilman
14:44:58:21 Scott to work from.
14:44:59:27 That took pressure off of us.
14:45:01:21 I'll go back to the transcript to verify that.
14:45:04:03 But while I have a moment, I would like you all to
14:45:06:28 know, I provided you all with an updated copy of what I
14:45:10:09 believe to have been the latest draft of the WMBE
14:45:15:18 ordinance.
14:45:16:03 David Smith has done a lot of work on this.
14:45:18:21 Now coming back to the office started to take some of
14:45:20:24 that work over, and I think there may have been an
14:45:23:07 error in accepting, in my electronically accepting the
14:45:28:09 latest copy.
14:45:29:16 There is at least one provision, 26.5-92 that is not in

14:45:33:16 the packet that you've received.
14:45:35:04 That was an error.
14:45:36:18 So I just want to let you know that if you are going to
14:45:39:28 make any motions on that, please allow your motion to
14:45:43:18 reflect that it is to incorporate the changes as
14:45:48:01 dictated in the memo together with David Smith's latest
14:45:54:06 copy.
14:45:56:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I wasn't accepting this.
14:45:58:06 What I was saying was, Mr. Smith, whoever he designates
14:46:01:12 from his office along with the Council attorney, we sit
14:46:04:03 down and look at the language on those items I pointed
14:46:07:00 out.
14:46:07:15 We have agreement, I believe, on those other items I
14:46:10:09 pointed out.
14:46:11:04 Items five, six, eight and nine, I still have some
14:46:14:12 concerns about that.
14:46:15:07 But I think we can work through that.
14:46:16:25 And then that way, once we work out the verbiage, I
14:46:19:25 think Council may agree with moving forward for the
14:46:23:13 first reading in March.
14:46:26:16 If not, then we can continue.
14:46:28:19 And there were comments made from councilman Dingfelder
14:46:32:00 and also Mulhern.
14:46:35:24 >> David Smith, City Attorney.
14:46:37:01 I want to clarify what Toyin was indicating.

14:46:39:15 We had added in a prior version a specific requirement
14:46:42:12 for the manager to come back to City Council with
14:46:45:21 reports.
14:46:46:01 She didn't have that version.
14:46:48:00 So I just want to make sure, don't look at the one
14:46:50:25 you've got.
14:46:51:10 The one that preceded that with the changes we're going
14:46:55:13 to meet and discuss will be the working version when
14:46:57:09 you come back in March.
14:47:00:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 6.0 or 6.1.
14:47:03:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Not refer to the one that was just
14:47:04:15 handed out.
14:47:06:09 >> I don't believe you're taking action today.
14:47:08:27 I think the motion will be for us to meet and come back
14:47:11:09 with a version that will be ready for first reading.
14:47:17:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I guess my concern is -- Mr. Scott
14:47:20:01 should have the opportunity to have the most current
14:47:22:18 version before the time he has the opportunity --
14:47:27:12 >> We'll get this to the whole Council by tomorrow,
14:47:30:00 this is very easy to correct.
14:47:32:27 >>MARY MULHERN: I haven't had a chance to look at the
14:47:34:09 ordinance even though it's missing something or this
14:47:36:15 memo or dig up my old notes, so I'm not sure that by
14:47:43:06 just meeting with Councilman Scott, that my many
14:47:46:06 questions are going to be answered.

14:47:47:28 So I don't think we can count on this necessarily
14:47:51:13 moving forward.
14:47:53:10 If I don't have the opportunity to, again, state --
14:48:00:18 after I go through this all over again, figure it out.
14:48:04:09 I mean, I was going to ask before you brought it up
14:48:10:15 that we not talk about it today and reschedule the
14:48:13:00 discussion.
14:48:13:10 You can get us the accurate ordinance, and then we can
14:48:17:00 look at all of it.
14:48:18:03 And you can talk.
14:48:21:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The whole intent is not to take any
14:48:24:07 action today.
14:48:25:00 That's what my motion is.
14:48:26:27 Really not take any action.
14:48:28:24 Save ourselves some time.
14:48:30:04 So Mr. Smith offer in his memo an opportunity to
14:48:35:03 talk --
14:48:38:12 >>MARY MULHERN: That means the next time we meet, we'll
14:48:40:09 have a different ordinance, which may not reflect the
14:48:43:07 things that I'm going to put into it.
14:48:46:06 So I feel like I'm not going to be ready to vote on it,
14:48:49:21 is what I'm saying.
14:48:51:03 We need to have all the information, unless we get it
14:48:58:10 at least a week in advance.
14:49:00:19 >> David Smith.

14:49:01:18 What we will do is schedule the meeting with Mr. Scott
14:49:04:03 early on.
14:49:04:21 And what we will get to every Council member, as I said
14:49:07:21 tomorrow, the most recent version of the ordinance.
14:49:10:15 From that point, any comments, any additional changes
14:49:13:03 will be red lined.
14:49:14:06 So you'll be able to see what was stricken through and
14:49:17:09 what was added, and we will talk to each Council member
14:49:21:03 well in advance of coming back for a first public
14:49:24:00 hearing, so everyone has a chance to provide their
14:49:26:21 input and see if there are additional changes.
14:49:29:04 And if there are series of changes, a couple of
14:49:34:15 councilman Mulhern changes, councilman Caetano changes,
14:49:40:12 we'll have them for you and you can work through them.
14:49:43:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Greg is diligent about appearing
14:49:45:09 monthly pursuant to this old motion, but I guess your
14:49:48:12 March appearance should be at that workshop.
14:49:51:15 >> That would be correct.
14:49:55:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, it's not a workshop.
14:49:57:01 No, no.
14:49:57:24 It will be our first meeting in March that we can bring
14:50:02:09 it forth, schedule it for first reading, keeping in
14:50:05:21 mind that you don't have to vote on it or pass it if
14:50:08:16 it's not what Council wants, right?
14:50:11:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Scott, may I make a suggestion?

14:50:13:18 Which would be to place it -- rather on the consent doc
14:50:14:24 and then have it removed, place it under staff reports
14:50:16:25 so Council will have the opportunity to discuss it.
14:50:20:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, very good suggestion.
14:50:21:21 That would be my motion what the attorney said.
14:50:26:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:50:27:21 All in favor, aye.
14:50:28:18 [Motion Carried]
14:50:29:06 Item 103.
14:50:32:28 We have a motion and second to move the resolution.
14:50:35:16 All in favor, aye.
14:50:36:16 [Motion Carried]
14:50:37:01 Item 104.
14:50:44:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: We have a request by the City
14:50:46:19 Attorney's office to add an item, but that is dependent
14:50:50:16 on whether Council adds a special meeting for next week
14:50:55:00 during the day, otherwise, Council, the request would
14:50:58:03 be to add it to the night meeting.
14:50:59:21 But we'll wait and hold that to see what the
14:51:02:00 determination ultimately is.
14:51:03:21 Unless you decide you definitely want the evening.
14:51:06:19 >> The daytime one is fine.
14:51:08:21 >> For what?
14:51:10:01 >> There is something on the agenda, apparently the
14:51:13:01 evening agenda, this will be the settlement of the

14:51:16:16 Magyar case.
14:51:18:12 You can do it on the night agenda if you want to.
14:51:21:03 I'm assuming the only agenda that came up at City
14:51:23:06 Council thus far is your night agenda.
14:51:25:18 And the budget resolution is on there.
14:51:27:24 The settlement resolution is not on there.
14:51:30:00 It's too late to get it on either of the agendas.
14:51:33:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You're not talking about going up
14:51:38:12 stairs --
14:51:40:24 >> No.
14:51:41:09 It's pro forma if you want it to be, yes.
14:51:43:18 That's set for the evening meeting but it's already on
14:51:49:06 the agenda and the agenda is closed.
14:51:51:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: My understanding is you can amend the
14:51:53:04 agenda.
14:51:53:25 Ms. Foxx-Knowles, you can do an update to evening
14:51:56:12 agenda to add so it's sufficient notice, is that
14:51:58:18 correct?
14:51:59:00 Or is that not correct?
14:52:01:01 >> [INAUDIBLE]
14:52:02:12 >> The agenda has already been --
14:52:05:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's a week away.
14:52:06:19 That's the question.
14:52:07:15 The question is, can this be added to the same time as
14:52:10:03 the budget amendment?

14:52:11:06 It can be done?
14:52:14:10 >> If we can get it down to you for the evening agenda,
14:52:17:01 you can get it on the evening agenda.
14:52:19:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to set it for 5:30 on Thursday,
14:52:22:06 February 14th.
14:52:26:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
14:52:28:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, just so you understand why
14:52:30:24 that's the case.
14:52:31:15 With regard to setting it on a date that's normally not
14:52:35:27 a regular agenda, time is of the essence with settling
14:52:39:13 and acting in good faith.
14:52:41:12 That's why it's being asked to be brought back at that
14:52:44:03 time.
14:52:45:13 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
14:52:46:12 104.
14:52:47:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to say that when we ask
14:52:49:28 for a staff report, it's great to get it in advance of
14:52:53:06 our Thursday meeting so we can share it with our
14:52:55:21 constituents and read it ourselves.
14:52:57:09 We haven't received anything other than that we're
14:53:00:16 going to get a report.
14:53:01:12 So I'd love something printed in advance, if possible.
14:53:05:06 >> Tony Rodriguez, public works transportation.
14:53:07:18 Here to speak on the SoHo parking situation as well as
14:53:13:09 the letter and petition that we received from the

14:53:17:16 Courier City Oscawana Neighborhood Association and some
14:53:23:00 of the things we've been doing to answer the points.
14:53:25:15 We met several times with the Neighborhood Association,
14:53:31:24 and even before I get started on their letter, there
14:53:36:00 was also another issue that we've been working with
14:53:38:12 them, and that's the issue of the Publix going in at
14:53:42:22 Platt and Armenia.
14:53:44:25 The developer of the Publix offered $125,000 for
14:53:50:15 community amenities such as sidewalks, crosswalks,
14:53:53:21 landscaping.
14:53:54:13 I'm happy to report that we believe we've figured out
14:53:58:03 the mechanism to accept those funds from the developer.
14:54:03:10 The city has validated the prioritized list of
14:54:06:15 improvements, primarily sidewalks and crosswalks from
14:54:09:09 the Neighborhood Association.
14:54:11:06 And I'm happy to report that as soon as that
14:54:14:03 transaction is done and we get that money in an
14:54:16:21 account, we can execute that.
14:54:18:13 Now, with that said, there were seven or eight to do
14:54:23:25 the points that the Neighborhood Association wanted to
14:54:27:09 talk about.
14:54:28:09 In particular, parking on east-west streets.
14:54:32:18 Parking on north-south streets.
14:54:34:18 The original proposal asked for parking on one side for
14:54:39:15 the east-west streets, parking on both sides for the

14:54:42:21 north-south streets in coordination with both TPD and
14:54:46:18 Tampa fire rescue, we've gone through and determined

14:54:51:22 where we can do those in those areas, and we've already
14:54:55:04 started signing in those locations.
14:54:57:28 Outstanding issue is, they called for on-street parking
14:55:02:01 on Platt and Cleveland.
14:55:03:12 And really further study is needed for that.
14:55:05:19 Those are three lane, one-way arterials, and to take a
14:55:13:00 travel lane off of either one of those and make them a
14:55:16:16 parking lane, there are safety and capacity issues
14:55:19:04 we'll have to look into a little further, for further
14:55:22:00 study.
14:55:22:15 With respect to parking meters -- with respect to
14:55:29:16 parking meters, they asked for them on Platt and
14:55:33:15 Cleveland, once again, tied to the same issue as well
14:55:36:03 as Howard.
14:55:37:09 I have Jim Corbett, our parking division manager here,
14:55:41:06 but parking division is amenable to working with
14:55:47:07 transportation to determine the appropriate locations
14:55:49:09 for parking meters along Howard Avenue and as well as
14:55:54:04 providing an enforcement mechanism for that.
14:55:55:18 Also, parking division with respect to developing a
14:55:58:19 residential parking permit program, they are preparing
14:56:03:27 a draft residential parking permit program, which can
14:56:07:15 be used for any neighborhood in the city, and I believe

14:56:11:21 you'll be hearing about that on your February 21st
14:56:15:15 meeting.
14:56:16:03 So we're working with the parking division on
14:56:20:22 developing that program.
14:56:21:19 We've done it in Ybor and Channelside, kind of on a
14:56:27:00 one-on-one basis.
14:56:28:18 We're developing a citywide policy for a residential
14:56:31:09 parking permit program, which ultimately will come
14:56:33:18 before Council for approval.
14:56:35:03 Another issue that was of concern to the neighborhood
14:56:41:04 was the use of remote parking for businesses.
14:56:44:16 Right now, businesses have a 300-foot limitation, and
14:56:52:06 doing research with LDC, I believe that the solution of
14:56:55:25 that will be to come back before Council and get the
14:56:59:19 300-foot changed to 1,000-foot.
14:57:02:03 And especially with respect to the SoHo area, I believe
14:57:04:27 that's going to open up a lot of available parking
14:57:07:27 still within reasonable walking distance to those
14:57:11:12 businesses.
14:57:12:09 So that should be coming to you summer or fall of this
14:57:16:28 year.
14:57:17:13 Enforcement has always been a huge issue in this area.
14:57:22:12 TPD has issued 560 tickets in 2006.
14:57:26:09 664 in 2007.
14:57:28:21 District one will continue their aggressive parking

14:57:35:18 enforcement program, and also, we received word last
14:57:38:24 week that Tommy Ortiz and his business partners,
14:57:44:12 Mr. Ortiz is also a resident as well as a business
14:57:47:12 owner in the SoHo area, they will be providing the
14:57:51:03 services of an extra duty police officer very soon to
14:57:54:15 be driving through the neighborhood and enhancing the
14:57:57:27 parking enforcement.
14:57:59:03 So very positive step by the business community to help
14:58:03:06 the neighborhood.
14:58:04:04 Also, four-way stop studies were asked for for the
14:58:10:15 interior intersections.
14:58:12:06 And we studied nine intersections, and the report came
14:58:17:18 back that the volumes coming into those intersections
14:58:20:06 as well as the accident history did not warrant
14:58:23:12 four-way stops at those locations at this time.
14:58:26:06 However, we'll do an additional study, and if those
14:58:29:27 volumes are fairly equal, we might be able to do
14:58:32:18 basically kind of what we call a basket weave on
14:58:35:12 two-way stop locations to where every other block you
14:58:39:03 might incur a stop sign.
14:58:41:19 So we're looking into that.
14:58:43:12 So with that, I think those were most of the points.
14:58:47:21 We're actively working with the Neighborhood
14:58:49:07 Association, we just had a meeting with those folks
14:58:53:00 last week, and I think we're making great progress.

14:58:56:03 And as this area continues to grow and change, the city
14:58:59:27 will work with the community to find solutions.
14:59:06:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
14:59:09:18 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Can we suspend the rules to allow
14:59:12:10 someone from the Neighborhood Association to talk on
14:59:14:00 this?
14:59:14:18 I'll make a motion.
14:59:16:12 >> Second.
14:59:17:12 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:59:19:04 All in favor of the motion.
14:59:21:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Crumbly has been here all day.
14:59:24:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Again to the question, I was always
14:59:26:06 under the impression that if Council has a question to
14:59:29:12 ask, that they could ask the question without waiving
14:59:32:21 the rules.
14:59:37:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That rule is specifically pertaining
14:59:39:07 to workshops, Councilman Scott.
14:59:45:01 >>GWEN MILLER: And it has to be unanimous to waive the
14:59:47:15 rules.
14:59:48:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And also during hearings.
14:59:54:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Could I ask a few questions before
14:59:57:13 we hear from Mr. Crumbly.
15:00:00:03 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion, aye.
15:00:01:21 Opposed, nay.
15:00:03:00 All right, Mr. Dingfelder.

15:00:04:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
15:00:05:03 I do want to hear from Walter.
15:00:07:01 He's been here all day waiting.
15:00:09:07 A couple of questions and comments about these various
15:00:12:21 issues in the SoHo.
15:00:14:04 One, in regard to Cleveland and Platt, they are not
15:00:20:18 talking about -- they are only talking about around
15:00:22:21 their neighborhood.
15:00:23:10 They are not talking about as you go up into toward
15:00:26:12 Hyde Park.
15:00:27:04 So I just want to focus on that side of the Crosstown.
15:00:32:15 >> Oh, definitely.
15:00:33:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And when we focus on that, I think
15:00:35:13 we have to remember where that traffic is coming from.
15:00:38:07 All right?
15:00:38:22 Most of that traffic is continuing off of Azeele as it
15:00:42:12 comes out of Palma Ceia.
15:00:44:09 If you think about Azeele coming out of Palma Ceia,
15:00:47:12 it's two lanes.
15:00:48:18 So I don't know that the traffic expand that much as we
15:00:53:12 leave Azeele, which is two lanes, we make the little
15:00:56:12 jog around the new Publix, and we come in and all of a
15:00:59:18 sudden after Howard, boom, all of a sudden we have to
15:01:02:00 have three lanes, I don't necessarily buy it, number
15:01:04:25 one.

15:01:05:03 And number two, a long time ago when this discussion
15:01:07:28 first came up, the thought was, leave it three lanes
15:01:12:01 during the day but allow evening parking and weekend
15:01:16:15 parking because you definitely don't need the three
15:01:19:00 lanes in the night and the weekends.
15:01:20:27 So as you continue to explore that.
15:01:23:10 >> And those are definitely options that we'll be
15:01:26:21 considering in our further studies.
15:01:28:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It just seems to be taking a while,
15:01:30:18 but you can tell me more.
15:01:32:10 Another thing that we've heard from the neighborhood is
15:01:37:10 basically about scofflaws.
15:01:40:07 That young people who go to Howard and party are glad
15:01:43:16 to take the ticket.
15:01:45:09 How much is the ticket?
15:01:47:00 15 bucks, 25 -- 30 bucks.
15:01:49:27 They seem to be glad to do that.
15:01:51:25 I guess that's the cost of doing business if you want
15:01