Tampa City Council
Thursday, February 14, 2008
10:30 a.m. City Council
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10:30:17 Tampa City Council.
10:37:57 Thursday, February 14, 2008.
10:38:21 10:30 a.m. session.
10:50:33 [Sounding gavel]
10:50:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called back to
10:50:42 Roll call.
10:50:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
10:50:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
10:50:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
10:50:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
10:50:52 Before we begin, I would like to put on the record
10:50:54 that Mr. Caetano will not be here at the City Council
10:50:59 Now we are going to Super Bowl.
10:51:07 >>> We requested that the Super Bowl task force come
10:51:09 and give us a report an minority participation so if
10:51:18 the representative will come forward at this time.
10:51:26 >>> I am the current chairman of the Super Bowl task
10:51:29 And we appreciate you inviting us this morning.
10:51:32 The timing was good.
10:51:35 We got less than a year and Super Bowl will be in
10:51:39 Tampa, Florida on February 1st, 2009.
10:51:42 So we are really in the spotlight now.
10:51:45 And we just got back from Phoenix and Phoenix did a
10:51:53 wonderful job putting on this event.
10:51:54 We also want you to know the event we had in 2001 and
10:51:58 the event we are going to have in 2009 is dramatically
10:52:01 different, because of a lot of reasons but I am not
10:52:03 going to today go into that, but it's a much bigger
10:52:06 thing for our city.
10:52:10 I would like to introduce the people that I brought
10:52:12 here this morning.
10:52:13 First of all, reed Sigmon, our Executive Director.
10:52:20 He has got a lot of experience in sports management.
10:52:24 He was involved in the Super Bowl in 2001 in Tampa.
10:52:28 He was involved in the Super Bowl in Jacksonville.
10:52:31 He was involved in the final four when it was in the
10:52:34 bay area.
10:52:38 For the last two years before he came to us, he was
10:52:40 with the Cleveland browns running their stadium
10:52:44 So we are just ecstatic that reed is with us, and I
10:52:47 can tell you he's doing an outstanding job for us at
10:52:50 this time.
10:52:51 Also, I would like to introduce Curtis stokes, Curtis
10:52:59 is on our board, he is in charge of our emerging
10:53:03 programs committee.
10:53:06 Curtis is the current president of the NAACP in the
10:53:11 Tampa area.
10:53:14 He has been a banker for 15 years and has been very
10:53:17 involved in other community activity.
10:53:20 And the third person I want to introduce is Stephani
10:53:25 Stephani worked on the Super Bowl host committee in
10:53:33 She's got a lot of experience in our emerging business
10:53:36 activities for the last 25 years.
10:53:38 So I feel very, very good that we have got great
10:53:41 people working on this.
10:53:45 You called us here today to really talk about our
10:53:48 emerging business program.
10:53:49 And I just wanted to say a couple of things.
10:53:54 Emerging business was created really by the NFL, and
10:53:57 we did a wonderful job in 2001, and our goal is to
10:54:03 exceed the job we did in 2001 and this year.
10:54:11 We have got a lot of the people involved in our
10:54:13 emerging business committee.
10:54:17 They include many Tampa Bay organizations such as the
10:54:23 Chamber of Commerces from Pinellas County, Tampa, all
10:54:26 around the area.
10:54:28 They include the Tampa Bay black business investment
10:54:31 They include the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce.
10:54:33 They include the Hispanic development fund and the
10:54:40 city and county offices, minority and business
10:54:43 development enterprises in Hillsborough County.
10:54:44 So with that, again, our goal is to do better than we
10:54:49 did before.
10:54:49 And I would like to introduce Curtis stokes, and let
10:54:53 Curtis come tell you a little more about what we are
10:54:55 really doing.
10:54:58 >>> Thank you.
10:54:59 Before I start --
10:55:07 >> Sure.
10:55:10 >> My name is Curtis stokes.
10:55:14 I'm on the Executive Committee of the Tampa Bay Super
10:55:18 Bowl committee, and also the chair of the emerging
10:55:21 business portion of the Super Bowl.
10:55:24 As Dick mention it's a Super Bowl that's given to us
10:55:34 before the Super Bowl for purchasing, and working with
10:55:38 prime contractors. Some keys for that program's
10:55:40 success will be to identify local businesses that
10:55:43 provide the goods and services that the NFL provides.
10:55:47 For example, audio visual, building materials,
10:55:51 carpentry, flooring, catering, electronics, and also a
10:55:56 key to that program from the Super Bowl will be a
10:56:00 match making opportunity for local businesses with NFL
10:56:04 contractors, and we will have the opportunity in
10:56:10 When you see the makeup of the Super Bowl committee
10:56:13 members, the opportunity is going to be key because we
10:56:19 have, on that committee, we have the database of
10:56:23 minority, women-owned businesses, the North Carolina
10:56:28 minority development council, Anita Rozallia from the
10:56:35 business fund, Gregory.
10:56:41 >>ANNIE HART, City of Tampa minority enterprise,
10:56:43 Spencer Albert, from the Hillsborough County office of
10:56:49 diversity and the Hillsborough County school board.
10:56:53 So we have assembled a group of committee members who
10:56:55 have a database and vested interest in making sure
10:56:59 that minority businesses are getting that opportunity
10:57:02 during the match making process to work with the Super
10:57:06 The goals that we have established for the Super Bowl
10:57:09 is to identify non-NFL related opportunities.
10:57:14 For example, hotels are currently sprucing up and
10:57:20 getting ready for Super Bowl in '09, so there are
10:57:24 opportunities there that exist for minority and
10:57:27 women-owned businesses.
10:57:28 And also we want to create a process that will be a
10:57:31 model for other large-scale events as they come to
10:57:35 Hillsborough County.
10:57:37 So that in the future, we don't have to reinvent the
10:57:40 wheel, but the model is already in place, and we can
10:57:43 pick that model up in a business plan and move
10:57:47 Our goal also is to do better in '09 than we did in
10:57:52 In 2001 we did business with approximately 105
10:57:56 businesses, received contracts totaling in excess of
10:58:00 $2.5 million.
10:58:01 And our goal is to do better in '09.
10:58:09 We started our process during minority development
10:58:13 We met with the Executive Director of the Super Bowl
10:58:17 host committee, participated in a panel discussion
10:58:20 doing minority development, we talked about the
10:58:22 different opportunities that will exist when the Super
10:58:25 Bowl arrives.
10:58:28 We also worked with minority women owned businesses to
10:58:32 We have already started our process of working with
10:58:35 minority and women owned businesses.
10:58:37 And also we have our outreach to different minority
10:58:42 We are scheduled to go on the Connie Burton show on
10:58:47 WTNM at 9 a.m. on Saturday.
10:58:50 We have already talked about going on a radio program.
10:58:55 Elliott steel and Carol Lightey on WMNL, on Sundays at
10:59:03 9 a.m.
10:59:03 It was also reached out to the association of black
10:59:08 affairs to go on the David Wyley show at 10 a.m. on
10:59:14 So we hope to leave you with the idea that the
10:59:17 emerging business program, the Tampa Bay sports
10:59:19 committee, will do well.
10:59:22 Again our goal is to exceed what we did in 01, and
10:59:28 thank you all very much.
10:59:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Madam Chair, members of
10:59:34 council, Mr. Stokes.
10:59:36 In your handout here, it says program goals 2001 and
10:59:41 it has here the contract totaling, I guess for
10:59:46 minority, was $2.5 million.
10:59:48 Percentage of what?
10:59:50 >>> It's not a percentage, City Council man Scott.
10:59:57 That was in total of 2.5 and was spent with 105 funds
11:00:01 in 2001.
11:00:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then what was the impact?
11:00:07 What was the financial impact to Hillsborough County,
11:00:10 City of Tampa, when the Super Bowl came in 2001?
11:00:14 There ought to be -- this is our third Super Bowl.
11:00:17 I would think of that we would have some numbers in
11:00:18 terms of what the numbers are, in terms of minority
11:00:24 I will tell you, $2.5 million don't sound like a lot
11:00:30 of money if it was over $100 million impact.
11:00:33 >>> When we talk about the $1200 million impact,
11:00:36 that's a gross figure.
11:00:37 When you back out the hotels, the airfare, large
11:00:42 venues that hold events, when you back that out, that
11:00:48 real number that's spent on minority firms, firms in
11:00:51 our area, it's a net 15 to $20 million.
11:01:00 So you have to look at minority businesses, the
11:01:03 businesses that did business with the Super Bowl in
11:01:06 And I was part of that in '01.
11:01:10 Every outreach was made during that time.
11:01:13 And they show that minority business participated in
11:01:17 that process.
11:01:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:01:21 Can I follow up with a couple of other questions?
11:01:24 What actually is the plan?
11:01:25 Has there been a plan laid out?
11:01:28 And have you said, okay, this is the goal that we want
11:01:31 to reach in terms of minority participation, the
11:01:37 percentage, the goal.
11:01:38 Have you identified what services now?
11:01:42 And Carolyn Stewart raised a very valid question to me
11:01:50 You have a list of services.
11:01:51 One of the things she pointed out to me was in terms
11:01:54 of -- what is the intent of use of attorneys in
11:02:06 minority law firms and minority lawyers and law firms?
11:02:09 And so here again, that's not even on the list here.
11:02:13 So my question goes back again, what is the plan, how
11:02:18 is it laid out, and again, still raise the question
11:02:22 about the goal.
11:02:23 >>> Well, what we have done, councilman Scott, we
11:02:27 identified the top ten areas where the Super Bowl
11:02:30 spends money when it comes to an area.
11:02:35 In that area may be catering, contracting, carpentry,
11:02:42 audio I.V. advise owe.
11:02:44 The reason we chose Greg Hart, Spencer Albert, Henry
11:02:51 ballot, is because they have a database of clients
11:02:53 that they work with on a daily basis, that they can
11:02:56 take advantage of slot A, slot B.
11:03:00 Therefore, when an RFP goes out that we need a
11:03:05 thousand copies, or 25,000 copies by Tuesday, there's
11:03:11 no scrambling around.
11:03:12 We go to the database that's already there through the
11:03:16 Through the city, the county, and the school board,
11:03:19 and identify those firms, and send those RFPs out to
11:03:23 those individuals so they can take advantage of it.
11:03:28 >>GWEN MILLER: My question is, if there's a lot of
11:03:33 other people out there who would love to have -- to
11:03:36 participate in the Super Bowl.
11:03:37 There's a lot of vendors out there you might miss.
11:03:40 So how do you advertise, you know?
11:03:47 Do you go on those shows and say contact --
11:03:50 >>> yes, ma'am.
11:03:51 We have on our web site, Tampa Bay Super Bowl dot com,
11:04:00 minority vendors, Hispanic owned businesses, can go in
11:04:04 this and look at the different opportunities that
11:04:06 exist, and we will contact the minority media, the
11:04:12 particular radio programs, La Gaceta to advertise the
11:04:17 different opportunities that exist when an RFP or
11:04:21 opportunity comes to do business with the Super Bowl.
11:04:23 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like Carolyn to come up.
11:04:27 And this is something we never thought about, because
11:04:30 we are not attorneys, and I am not an attorney, and I
11:04:33 don't know what you can do with the Super Bowl.
11:04:35 Maybe you can help us out.
11:04:37 >>> Thank you, Madam Chair.
11:04:38 I do not have the list that he has.
11:04:44 He will give me a list, as councilman Scott pointed
11:04:48 out he said he didn't see anything in there about
11:04:50 legal services.
11:04:51 Minorities in this community do more than clean up,
11:04:53 carpentry, sell T-shirts and cook and should be
11:04:57 involved in the Super Bowl as relates to professional
11:05:00 I know for a fact that one of the things that was done
11:05:03 at the last Super Bowl is that some needed special use
11:05:06 in liquor licenses.
11:05:08 That's something that local attorneys can do.
11:05:10 So I have not seen the list.
11:05:11 I do not know if it's an encompassing list that
11:05:15 includes other professional service that is minorities
11:05:17 are well qualified to do in this community.
11:05:19 So we do think thank councilman Scott and Saul-Sena
11:05:27 for putting this on the agenda and hopefully some more
11:05:29 resources may be added to this list, and I would ask
11:05:34 you, the date of this meeting in April that you are
11:05:36 talking about?
11:05:38 >>> I'm not sure, Stephani, of the particular date but
11:05:41 we are studying that around the date the NFL
11:05:44 contractors will be in our area.
11:05:46 There's a reason why we chose April, was to coincide
11:05:48 with their visit to Tampa.
11:05:50 And as far as the professional services, what we
11:05:54 looked at was all the particular areas that are most
11:05:56 used by an NFL -- contractors and businesses, and
11:06:05 agree that minorities do more than clean up or things
11:06:08 like that.
11:06:09 So if you are in that database of -- school board, or
11:06:15 Greg Hart, the city, or Spencer Albert, the county,
11:06:18 when an opportunity comes for professional services,
11:06:21 i.e., attorneys, you will get a call.
11:06:24 You will be on that short list to take advantage.
11:06:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Like I said, Mr. Stokes, everybody is
11:06:30 not in that database for rendering services.
11:06:34 >>> And still have their issues including minority
11:06:37 attorneys and -- minority attorneys and majority law
11:06:41 firms on that you are list.
11:06:42 So you have a compounded problem.
11:06:45 I'm sure it's not your issue to resolve, but we do
11:06:48 appreciate the fact that the whole community is going
11:06:51 to do better next time.
11:06:52 >>GWEN MILLER: And would you be sure that you invite
11:06:55 Ms. Stewart to that meeting in April so she can be a
11:06:58 part of that?
11:07:03 So you can add attorneys to the list?
11:07:05 >>> Yes, ma'am.
11:07:08 >>MARY MULHERN: I would just like to ask -- and I
11:07:10 don't think it should be that difficult -- but you
11:07:15 gave sort of a range, a figure of 15 to 20 million,
11:07:18 you think the contracts are.
11:07:19 >>> Approximately.
11:07:20 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to -- you know, it would
11:07:24 be helpful for us to see what that is, even if it is
11:07:28 20 million, it looks like 2% of the contracts only
11:07:32 going out.
11:07:35 And really my question is, really, what councilman
11:07:40 Scott asked, is what is the goal?
11:07:43 And, you know, we would like to hear from you, what is
11:07:46 your goal?
11:07:47 You tell us how much was spent on the contracts in
11:07:52 But we don't know what that was in relation to the
11:07:55 total amount of money spent on contracts.
11:07:57 Or what your goal was for that year.
11:08:02 So I really think it would be helpful if you could get
11:08:06 back to us with that.
11:08:08 >>> Sure.
11:08:10 As I stated, the goal is to do better than we did in
11:08:14 'on the and to make sure that minority owned firms do
11:08:17 participate in the process.
11:08:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
11:08:20 We want some numbers.
11:08:21 That's what we like.
11:08:23 Because it's a goal.
11:08:25 It's an actual goal.
11:08:26 >>> Sure.
11:08:27 >>MARY MULHERN: Not just "better."
11:08:31 Thanks a lot.
11:08:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to startle by thanking
11:08:36 council member Scott for really bringing this issue
11:08:38 before us.
11:08:39 I want to thank you all for coming down.
11:08:41 In April you are going to have your meeting so I think
11:08:43 it would be appropriate to have a follow-up report to
11:08:47 council, the first council meeting in May, which I
11:08:51 believe is May 1st.
11:08:55 From your committee about the questions that Ms.
11:08:58 Mulhern raised whether it's a goal, the question that
11:09:00 Mr. Scott raised, how well did the meeting go in April
11:09:05 and what kind of participation we are getting.
11:09:07 It's a wonderful opportunity.
11:09:07 You all are to be commended.
11:09:09 We are so excited that the Super Bowl is coming to
11:09:12 It's huge for us.
11:09:13 We are pumped.
11:09:14 And we want to make sure that everyone benefits.
11:09:17 We are thankful to you for all the energy you put into
11:09:20 getting them here and we just want to make it the best
11:09:22 Super Bowl ever.
11:09:23 We are already started communicating with the weather
11:09:26 Gods to ensure a perfect day, and we are just very
11:09:31 >>MARY MULHERN: And the football gods, too.
11:09:34 >>> Thank you very much, Ms. Saul-Sena.
11:09:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That was a motion that we have a
11:09:42 report on May 1st, our regular council meeting,
11:09:45 under -- well, that would make it convenient.
11:09:48 Why don't we say 10:30?
11:09:50 >> We have a motion and second.
11:09:52 (Motion carried).
11:09:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a question, too, of reed,
11:10:02 their Executive Director.
11:10:05 I apologize.
11:10:05 Welcome back.
11:10:09 As I looked on this page, you know, we are not just
11:10:13 inquiring, you know, voyeuristically because the City
11:10:17 of Tampa, I think the mayor committed the city for a
11:10:20 million dollar investment in the Super Bowl, and
11:10:24 obviously the city will be deeply involved in numerous
11:10:27 But my question is this.
11:10:30 As I go down the page, it talks about NFL contractors,
11:10:36 party planners, ridgeway international, et cetera.
11:10:41 And what I'm wondering about is, what type of control
11:10:45 or contracts do we have with any of those
11:10:49 Or does the NFL have an organization, and do those
11:10:54 contracts expressly include this issue of, you know,
11:10:59 WMBE and DB and the rest of the BE?
11:11:02 >>> It's a great question.
11:11:05 Those NFL contractors are contracted directly with the
11:11:08 NFL, and the contractors between those two entities.
11:11:15 I can't speak exactly to the contracts.
11:11:17 This is a program that the NFL finds very important,
11:11:20 and they strongly encourage their contractors to do as
11:11:23 much business as possible, and to use local
11:11:26 businesses, and to make sure that they utilize as much
11:11:31 of the capacity in the community as possible.
11:11:33 I can't speak exactly to what they say, but it's
11:11:37 strongly encouraged.
11:11:38 And these companies do year after year make use of
11:11:42 local minority women-owned businesses in the
11:11:45 communities that they travel to.
11:11:47 >> But you are not sure about the contract language,
11:11:49 or if there's contract language itself?
11:11:52 >>> I can't speak to that definitively at this point,
11:11:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And how about your committee that
11:12:00 you're working with?
11:12:04 Our local Super Bowl committee itself.
11:12:05 I mean, we must be contracting ourselves, aren't we?
11:12:09 >>> Yes, sir.
11:12:10 >> With various vendors?
11:12:11 >>> Yes, sir.
11:12:12 >> And because you are a nonprofit, it's my
11:12:14 understanding you are a nonprofit.
11:12:16 >>> Yes, sir.
11:12:16 >> I mean, could you put in language, or have you put
11:12:19 in language with your various vendors specifically
11:12:22 addressing this?
11:12:24 >>> We are making best effort.
11:12:26 In our procurement efforts we are again using the
11:12:28 database that we have from '01 and making efforts to
11:12:32 use as many minority women-owned businesses as
11:12:36 Our particular contract are not particularly these
11:12:42 Ours are much smaller in nature in terms of if we need
11:12:45 to print things or if we need office supplies or if we
11:12:47 have transportation needs, and in those cases we --
11:12:52 and we have, in all those cases, used minority,
11:12:56 women-owned businesses in the Tampa Bay area.
11:13:01 >> We have got 11 more months to go.
11:13:03 Maybe we can keep revisiting that issue.
11:13:05 Especially in terms of contractually.
11:13:08 But I'm going to guess as you get more money into your
11:13:11 program that you are going to have more opportunities
11:13:14 for this.
11:13:14 >>> Right.
11:13:15 And a lot, again, a lot of our budget goes to things,
11:13:18 you know, specifically promised to the NFL in terms of
11:13:21 stadium costs and hotel costs and things like that.
11:13:25 But we absolutely are doing and have used a number of
11:13:28 businesses so far.
11:13:29 >> Well, thank you to you and Mr. Beard and everybody.
11:13:36 We are excited about the Super Bowl and look forward
11:13:38 to seeing the Bucs in the Super Bowl.
11:13:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just follow up again.
11:13:45 Thank you very much again to you and your whole team
11:13:47 for coming today.
11:13:48 We really appreciate that.
11:13:51 And I want to follow up.
11:13:52 On your committee -- and I look at your committee.
11:13:55 I don't really see any private business persons.
11:13:59 It looked like mostly government, the relationship
11:14:03 that are involved there as opposed to having someone
11:14:05 who has been out in business and successful, and maybe
11:14:09 night want to think about adding a couple people to
11:14:12 that from the private sector that's envisioned, and
11:14:15 can also give you some insight.
11:14:17 >>> Let me give you some background, Commissioner
11:14:21 The reason was, to have no vested interest or getting
11:14:28 business in the Super Bowl but had the interest of the
11:14:32 community and the minority owned businesses, and not
11:14:36 private business owners.
11:14:38 >> And you respect that.
11:14:38 I think it's a wonderful idea.
11:14:40 But I also know sometimes people who have benefits can
11:14:43 give you ideas about -- one thing I learned about
11:14:45 government, you know, we have a conflict, you have to
11:14:49 declare a conflict and you have to abstain from that.
11:14:52 So you can set some kind of guidelines where that
11:14:58 don't happen.
11:14:59 I'm just thinking in terms of those who have been in
11:15:01 business, who have been doing this could probably give
11:15:03 you more insight from the private sector side who
11:15:06 understand what it all takes or what is involved.
11:15:10 Again, thank you for being here.
11:15:12 We are all excited about it.
11:15:13 We are happy about it.
11:15:15 From my perspective, I just think when we look at
11:15:18 Tampa, Hillsborough County, the culture diversity
11:15:22 here, and want to make sure that everybody has an
11:15:24 opportunity to do business when the NFL comes.
11:15:28 That's primarily the whole thing.
11:15:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Don't leave because we have comments
11:15:34 from the public.
11:15:36 I know you want to hear some of those comments.
11:15:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I ask you a quick question.
11:15:41 Mr. Beard?
11:15:42 This is on Super Bowl but unrelated issue to this.
11:15:45 But our next topic of discussion, when we finish with
11:15:48 the Super Bowl, we are talking about a green ordinance
11:15:51 for the City of Tampa.
11:15:52 And I'm just wondering how green the Super Bowl is
11:15:55 going to be.
11:15:55 I imagine that, you know, with the focus so big on the
11:15:59 Super Bowl, you guys are probably addressing this
11:16:03 Or if you want to defer to your co-counsel there, that
11:16:09 will be fine.
11:16:09 >>> Let me get my expert in.
11:16:11 >>> The NFL does have a very strong environmental
11:16:14 program that they do each year at the Super Bowl and
11:16:16 they focus a lot on recycling.
11:16:19 Items that are used at the Super Bowl, waste at the
11:16:22 Super Bowl, as well as one of the projects they do is
11:16:25 because there are so many events that occur throughout
11:16:27 the city that involve food, one of their big projects
11:16:31 from recycling standpoint is to go and try to gather
11:16:34 all the unused food and take it to local shelters.
11:16:39 One of the other projects they have done both in south
11:16:41 Florida and in are Arizona is to plant trees as kind
11:16:44 of an offset to what they do.
11:16:46 They planted 84 acres of trees in Arizona this year.
11:16:50 And the idea was, because it's Super Bowl XLII they
11:16:55 did two sets, and each set had 42 trees per acre.
11:17:00 It's kind of what they did.
11:17:01 But those are some of the programs and they will
11:17:03 continue to work.
11:17:04 Recycling is a very big part of the program and the
11:17:07 last two planted trees.
11:17:09 >> I don't know if we have 80 acres to plant trees but
11:17:12 we have plenty of medians.
11:17:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Beard, did you want to say
11:17:19 >>> I just want to say, it's really important that you
11:17:21 all understand than we are committed to this program,
11:17:24 and we are committed to make it better for me all the
11:17:28 way through the whole Super Bowl host committee.
11:17:34 And we are committed to doing it in Tampa and in
11:17:37 Hillsborough County, and in the whole region.
11:17:39 We think Super Bowl can be really a great regional
11:17:45 effort and bring us all a little closer together.
11:17:49 And we are committed to making sure that everybody in
11:17:52 the community -- this really is a community thing.
11:17:55 It's not just about the people that come.
11:17:57 It's more we want the people that are here, that live
11:18:00 here, we want them to be well served, and want the
11:18:05 economic benefit to stay here, if they can, and our
11:18:10 committee is going to work diligently to make sure
11:18:13 those things happen.
11:18:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you so much, Mr. Beard.
11:18:17 I think it would be appropriate for the Super Bowl to
11:18:21 come to council like every two months or so, giving us
11:18:24 updates on what you are doing, and providing
11:18:25 information about how community opportunities for
11:18:30 For example, when you talk about the tree planting, I
11:18:34 saw what's happening with the mayor's beautification
11:18:36 committee might be a vehicle.
11:18:38 Because council is a good vehicle to get the word out
11:18:41 to the community.
11:18:42 >>> We are starting to work on getting the word out a
11:18:47 little bit more.
11:18:48 I have got a speech coming up next week, reed and I
11:18:52 And we have got other things coming.
11:18:54 We are trying to get out and get the word out and let
11:18:56 people know really what's going on.
11:18:59 But I understand, this thing ramps up, and we are
11:19:02 trying to get our arms around a lot of the details
11:19:05 And as we get closer, we'll have a lot of -- we'll
11:19:10 have more definitive answers for you.
11:19:13 So we'll come whenever you call us.
11:19:15 >>MARY MULHERN: I was just going to say that maybe Mr.
11:19:18 Hart could report to us on what's happening, as
11:19:23 opposed to you having to come in.
11:19:27 >>> That or I'll be glad to come.
11:19:29 It's really important.
11:19:31 >>MARY MULHERN: We meet every two weeks --
11:19:34 [ Laughter ]
11:19:35 Just kidding.
11:19:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Maybe every three months.
11:19:44 >>GWEN MILLER: They are already coming back.
11:19:45 >>> We'll come back whenever you all call us. If
11:19:47 there's something that's on your mind just call us and
11:19:50 we'll be glad to come.
11:19:51 >>CHAIRMAN: If we have a question we'll call.
11:19:53 >>> And understand, we have -- we have Executive
11:19:56 Committee meetings once a month.
11:19:57 We have board meetings every two months.
11:20:00 I mean, every quarter.
11:20:01 And on top of that, all the committees are starting to
11:20:06 And we have had City of Tampa people in a meeting.
11:20:09 The day before yesterday, I guess.
11:20:12 We had a room as big as this full of people.
11:20:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:20:17 I appreciate you coming.
11:20:19 I want you to stay and listen to comments from the
11:20:21 Is there anyone in the public that would like to speak
11:20:23 on Super Bowl?
11:20:31 >>> Diane Hart.
11:20:32 I'm very glad to actually see the Super Bowl task
11:20:35 force here talking to you all.
11:20:38 In fact, during the break I did say that I think it's
11:20:41 critical that our community is kept abreast of what's
11:20:45 going on with the Super Bowl task force.
11:20:48 I am a business owner for the past 25 years in East
11:20:52 And I just want them to understand that there are a
11:20:55 lot of business people who do not have a clue of any
11:21:00 type of input that they could have had to make that
11:21:02 Super Bowl a better venue, or just to make money like
11:21:06 most people hope to do.
11:21:09 But I did have an opportunity to tell Curtis, and I
11:21:12 think it's critical that not only do they use these
11:21:14 various databases, they need to get down to the
11:21:17 community level to people who are not on these
11:21:19 databases because everybody is not on it.
11:21:21 I'm a minority business woman for 25 years and I'm not
11:21:24 on either the city minority or women business
11:21:30 So it is critical that not only do they get on with
11:21:35 these databases but they come to the community.
11:21:39 Last time there was a Super Bowl in the city, I cannot
11:21:41 tell you how many vending licenses were given out to
11:21:44 people, but by the time the community itself was
11:21:48 abreast of it, there was no more opportunity.
11:21:50 And that is critical.
11:21:51 It is really critical that they realize that early on
11:21:55 and get the community involved.
11:21:57 So, yes, I'm very glad that you all had them come in.
11:22:00 I think it's going to be crucial, in the next few
11:22:03 months coming up, that they keep in touch with the
11:22:06 The shows that they are going to do.
11:22:08 It's good venue.
11:22:10 People do listen to those radio shows that they are
11:22:12 going to be on.
11:22:13 But previously, I don't think there was ever anything
11:22:18 like that so that's a step in the right direction
11:22:20 itself but it is critical that they reach out not just
11:22:23 to be databases for folks who are in this but go into
11:22:26 the communities and make sure that people are aware of
11:22:29 the opportunities that may be there.
11:22:31 And, I mean, I don't know what opportunities are there
11:22:33 for folks.
11:22:34 But I know that those vending licenses and vendors out
11:22:37 on the streets, if you don't know about it you can't
11:22:40 participate in it, and by the time the community
11:22:42 really found out about it, there was no more
11:22:45 So I thank you very much for bringing them up here
11:22:52 >>> Joe Robinson, CEO, consulting engineer, and we are
11:23:05 not on the list either with attorneys.
11:23:08 We are professionals.
11:23:09 Let me say this.
11:23:10 I'm glad the Super Bowl is here.
11:23:11 But there's some issues.
11:23:15 The NAACP and Palmer center.
11:23:21 We are going to have these lists.
11:23:22 But the problem is, first of all, Super Bowl is not
11:23:26 under the sunshine.
11:23:27 So they can't be speaking out here in the public.
11:23:31 They are very private.
11:23:32 Now, the problem is this, that there wasn't any money
11:23:37 made in 2001.
11:23:39 There probably won't be any made in 2009.
11:23:41 But what we have to do -- would you turn on the
11:23:44 overhead right quick?
11:23:45 Because I am going to show you something.
11:23:46 Do you see that?
11:23:47 This is what was done in south Florida.
11:23:50 South Florida, when they had the Super Bowl in Miami
11:23:53 they had an application for emerging business.
11:23:55 This time, they get it right.
11:23:57 They have that on the Internet.
11:23:58 So I'm telling everybody watching this on TV, go to
11:24:01 TampaBaySuperBowl.com and fill this out and do it
11:24:05 right now.
11:24:06 And answer all these questions on here and do it fast.
11:24:10 Because I know how this game is played.
11:24:12 Because I played it.
11:24:16 Over here we have the hospital, school board, a lot of
11:24:20 people that were working to get that done.
11:24:22 This will be the same.
11:24:24 They represent doing this the right way so I am going
11:24:26 to be here to sort of police it for them.
11:24:28 That's why I am down here because I got enough
11:24:31 You know, I stay in West Tampa.
11:24:32 But I want to talk about this.
11:24:34 We have minority business.
11:24:35 We have hotel.
11:24:42 African-Americans own a resort, African-American
11:24:49 At the airport.
11:24:54 Don't come here talking about we don't own major
11:24:56 franchises, hotels.
11:24:59 There are minority businesses that own them.
11:25:01 That's the first thing.
11:25:03 I have no goals.
11:25:04 We are just getting on.
11:25:05 We are just in the first quarter.
11:25:08 We just flipped the coin, deciding who is going to get
11:25:10 the ball.
11:25:11 So what I am here to say, I am going to work with
11:25:13 We don't even have on the list beauty shops.
11:25:17 I know Buccaneers get their haircut every week and
11:25:20 Tony Dungy, I'm giving him a plug.
11:25:24 So there's a lot of things in there.
11:25:26 And we don't need a game plan.
11:25:29 What we need is a game plan that is going to be
11:25:32 inclusive, that takes care -- and for the City of
11:25:37 Tampa, have Mr. Hart to deal with it.
11:25:42 I think we are on the right track.
11:25:44 They have opened it up.
11:25:45 They are letting us participate and letting us talk
11:25:48 about it.
11:25:48 They are talking about match making.
11:25:50 Talking about how to make sound good.
11:25:52 And I am going to follow up.
11:25:55 West Tampa, Mr. Scott, last time we had beautification
11:25:59 on Main, Howard, Armenia, corridors to the Super Bowl,
11:26:06 we don't want them on the light pole, we got Museum of
11:26:08 Art over there, bring me some beautification over
11:26:10 there, with all of these trees and everything else and
11:26:12 let's get my quarters fixed up in West Tampa and don't
11:26:16 run no jet fuel pipeline over there, okay?
11:26:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
11:26:29 >>> Ed Turanchik, chairman of the West Tampa marketing
11:26:33 committee and we are extremely happy that the next
11:26:35 year's Super Bowl is going to be played in West Tampa,
11:26:40 And there just happens to be in the City of Tampa but
11:26:43 it's in the neighborhood of West Tampa.
11:26:45 And we are excited about it.
11:26:48 And we would hope that we get an opportunity to work
11:26:51 with the Super Bowl committee to do really good
11:26:55 positive things to identify the Tampa Bay area and
11:26:58 bring people in that community, engaged in it, and we
11:27:01 are thrilled about it and look forward to a great
11:27:04 Thank you.
11:27:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Turanchik, one second.
11:27:08 As I was observing you come in you had on your
11:27:13 motorcycle helmet.
11:27:14 Are you driving a motorcycle, ow are you such a bad
11:27:17 driver that you have got to wear a helmet?
11:27:19 >>> Well, in honor of the next agenda item, the green
11:27:25 ordinance, which I am anxious to hear about, my wife
11:27:29 and I have bought motor scooters.
11:27:32 And we use those for moving around the city.
11:27:34 And I'm very happy that mine gets 60 miles per gallon
11:27:38 and my wife's gets 85 miles per hour.
11:27:40 I'm also very happy that last Sunday our mayor took a
11:27:43 ride on my wife's scooter and found it was a blast,
11:27:46 too, and maybe we'll get people thinking more
11:27:50 environmentally sound and start commuting in different
11:27:53 But I do it to protect my head, which is not quite as
11:27:57 smooth as yours.
11:27:59 [ Laughter ]
11:28:00 >> Are you saying -- -- [ Laughter ]
11:28:08 I think what he said -- and I have to agree with you.
11:28:14 But anytime you want to go riding, I have got two of
11:28:18 I got a 64 Cushman silver eagle and I have got one of
11:28:24 those $800 jobs that you are talking about.
11:28:27 >>> I would enjoy that opportunity.
11:28:29 Thank you, Madam Chair.
11:28:30 >> Are you licensed by the way?
11:28:33 You know, it's a different license you have to get.
11:28:35 I want to make sure you are legal.
11:28:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
11:28:40 Mr. Bearding, all the committee, we are very happy you
11:28:44 came down and enlightened us what's going to be
11:28:47 happening with the Super Bowl in 2009.
11:28:49 I know you heard all the good things about the Super
11:28:51 Bowl and I know you are going to accomplish everything
11:28:53 that we ask.
11:28:54 And good luck to you.
11:28:55 I know it's going to be great.
11:28:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: On our agenda we have public
11:29:09 comment prior to the things.
11:29:11 In honor of the people that came down here I would
11:29:13 like to have public comment now if we could as per our
11:29:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think it's a good idea and folks
11:29:19 have been patiently waiting on this for a few months.
11:29:22 Let's see if we can get them in and out.
11:29:24 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to go to item number 2,
11:29:27 green ordinance.
11:29:28 Would anyone like to speak on item number 2?
11:29:30 You may come up and speak now.
11:29:39 >>> Green ordinance, right?
11:29:42 >> Yes, sir.
11:29:44 >> Give us your name and address.
11:29:49 >>> Ryan Becker, 3107 rice Avenue, I am in support of
11:29:56 the green building ordinance.
11:29:58 I believe that whatever --
11:30:01 >> Could you speak a little louder, please?
11:30:03 >>> Whatever we can do to mitigate the stress on the
11:30:05 environment reducing childhood diseases like asthma
11:30:10 and diseases in general, I believe it's a type of
11:30:14 local initiative we need to make Tampa a trend setter
11:30:19 and attract new cleaner industries and businesses, and
11:30:25 also I think encourages practical benefits by reducing
11:30:33 recurring costs, energy costs and such.
11:30:36 Thank you.
11:30:40 >>> Good morning, council.
11:30:44 My name is Deena Lovingood, 3007 west Chapin Avenue in
11:30:49 the city.
11:30:50 Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to
11:30:52 comment about the green ordinance.
11:30:54 I would like to take this opportunity to urge you as a
11:30:56 City Council and if the mayor is listening also, that
11:31:01 the City of Tampa take immediate steps, and
11:31:05 meaningful, substantive steps, to adopt a green
11:31:10 ordinance and also to start to implement things even
11:31:12 before the ordinance is completely in place and going.
11:31:17 I'm looking at the lights in this room for one.
11:31:19 Simple steps that can be taken to start to save some
11:31:23 of the costs that we are now expending within the city
11:31:27 that may not be necessary.
11:31:28 But I would like to support councilman Dingfelder's
11:31:33 proposed green ordinance and say it's a great
11:31:35 As you know, I have been very involved with the League
11:31:38 of Women Voters, who adopted sustainability positions
11:31:40 in the past.
11:31:41 I am very involved with the group called tomorrow
11:31:43 matters which is working on sustainability in the
11:31:45 region and balancing the natural social and economic
11:31:49 systems in our community is part of our focus, and we
11:31:51 encourage you to move forward on this, to try to catch
11:31:56 up with place that is are already implementing great
11:32:00 plans like St. Pete, city of St. Petersburg, which
11:32:02 already has a plan that they have implemented, over
11:32:05 all levels of their community, and within their city
11:32:09 auspices, and talk about also, it may cost a little
11:32:14 bit more money to do some things right now, to
11:32:16 retrofit or to build up front and to create this, but
11:32:20 it will save and build our economy later.
11:32:23 We don't have unlimited resources, energy, and water,
11:32:28 and all the other important things that we need to
11:32:33 start to protect in our community.
11:32:34 So I urge you strongly to please start to build a
11:32:38 green ordinance in a way that's helping our community
11:32:41 to live greener and more sustainably in the future.
11:32:45 Thank you.
11:32:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:32:50 >>> Good morning.
11:32:51 I'm Walter Johnson, 4625 Longfellow Avenue in Tampa,
11:32:55 and I'm president of T.H.A.N.
11:32:56 I would like to thank councilman Dingfelder, and Mr.
11:33:00 Shelby for being at our T.H.A.N. meeting last night,
11:33:02 and we had some discussion on this at that time.
11:33:06 First of all, I would like to say, on behalf of
11:33:09 T.H.A.N., we unanimously support the concept of
11:33:12 building green.
11:33:14 With that being said, we have some concerns in some
11:33:17 areas of the proposed ordinance.
11:33:20 First and foremost, I guess, is the density bonus.
11:33:23 We do not support the proposal to grant density
11:33:28 bonuses for the construction of green buildings
11:33:30 especially within residential neighborhoods.
11:33:32 In most neighborhoods, especially in the older
11:33:35 neighborhoods, the infrastructure is old, and will not
11:33:37 support increased density.
11:33:40 Land use designations, comprehensive plans, and zoning
11:33:44 classifications were established to protect and
11:33:46 preserve neighborhoods.
11:33:47 We know the proposal contains a provision that allows
11:33:50 the zoning administrator to deny a density bonus if it
11:33:54 is out of character with the neighborhood.
11:33:56 However, there doesn't appear to be any opportunity
11:33:59 for our neighborhood to be notified, or to have any
11:34:02 input into that decision.
11:34:04 We feel any changes to existing zonings should require
11:34:09 City Council approval.
11:34:14 Reduction in permit fees or other fees, we have great
11:34:17 concerns regarding the proposed grant reduction of
11:34:21 permitting fees or other fees if the reduced revenues
11:34:24 must be made up from general funds.
11:34:26 With a tax revenue reduction from amendment 1, you
11:34:31 should not take moneys from the general fund to
11:34:33 encourage green construction.
11:34:37 We know the proposal contains a $50,000 annual cap,
11:34:41 however, every cent of the tax dollar is going to be
11:34:44 needed for services as we move into the future.
11:34:47 We suggest you offset any financial incentives for
11:34:51 building green by increasing fees, et cetera, for
11:34:54 buildings that are not built green.
11:34:58 Then as an after-thought.
11:35:01 City and other governmental buildings should be
11:35:03 absolutely built green.
11:35:04 You don't need an ordinance to do that.
11:35:06 Just do it.
11:35:07 Thank you.
11:35:13 >>> Lisa Maslione, 9814 north Pawnee Avenue, Tampa,
11:35:19 I'm here as a citizen of the City of Tampa, as a
11:35:21 member of the Tampa Bay builders association, green
11:35:23 building committee.
11:35:24 And of the small builder of green workforce housing in
11:35:28 the Terrace Park neighborhood.
11:35:29 It's not often that you get a builder before you
11:35:32 asking for more regulation.
11:35:36 I'm here in the interest of moving the city forward
11:35:38 and being a respected leader and creating a
11:35:42 sustainable be, environmentally conscious city.
11:35:45 While the building industry is facing a crisis, this
11:35:48 is a time when the city can take advantage of this
11:35:51 green building ordinance, to move to reduce energy
11:35:56 consumption, to reduce water usage, and to stir the
11:36:01 Builders are looking for an edge.
11:36:02 This market will create the city someplace to go to
11:36:06 build green.
11:36:11 As I was speaking with councilman Saul-Sena earlier, I
11:36:14 said when I was reading through staff comments and
11:36:16 reading through councilman's Dingfelder's comments it
11:36:18 reminded me of saving and planning to have a child.
11:36:22 You just do it.
11:36:24 You take up the challenge.
11:36:25 You step up.
11:36:26 And you move forward.
11:36:28 There's going to be adversity.
11:36:33 Staff understandably would like to wait until the
11:36:35 construction services division becomes
11:36:39 Hillsborough County self-sustaining for awhile, they
11:36:42 are building service divisions.
11:36:45 There was adversity, a downturn in the market, they
11:36:48 are struggling.
11:36:48 But you move forward.
11:36:49 You go through it.
11:36:50 Work through the problem.
11:36:51 If we wait another year or two years or three years
11:36:54 until sustainability, then another adverse situation
11:36:59 occurs, and do we still wait to build an incentive to
11:37:03 bring builders to the city, to build green, and to
11:37:05 protect our environment for future generations?
11:37:08 So I strongly urge and implore council to move forward
11:37:13 with this green ordinance.
11:37:14 There are things that we don't like.
11:37:15 There are things that staff doesn't like.
11:37:17 There are things that council doesn't like.
11:37:18 But that's a negotiation we all come together to do
11:37:21 the right and better thing for all of us.
11:37:24 Thank you.
11:37:28 >> Good morning.
11:37:33 My name is Deanna Chan, an architect, and today I
11:37:41 speak for -- as usual, adopt the ordinances for a
11:37:50 couple reasons.
11:37:51 I understand that the City Council and the mayor has
11:37:55 concerns about a budget and waiving the fee for
11:38:05 Building green can save money in the long run which
11:38:09 people already talked about.
11:38:10 But, for example, the city of Chicago, in 2001, since
11:38:16 then they saved $5,000 a year just for the green roof.
11:38:20 But thinking about renovate the whole building.
11:38:24 That can save 90 cents per square foot.
11:38:27 If you think City of Tampa has a median square foot of
11:38:31 space for the whole building you can save $900,000 a
11:38:34 So this is every year you save the taxpayers money,
11:38:38 every year.
11:38:39 Although we will have maybe the amount of known pay up
11:38:48 front, to renovate, to build green, but we have to
11:38:50 think of long-term.
11:38:52 (Bell sounds).
11:38:54 And I think the City of Tampa should take a
11:38:56 leadership, and you great for the citizens and the
11:39:01 And I think green building should be a common
11:39:03 If you think we have clean water for clean water.
11:39:10 Clean air.
11:39:11 We have to have green building.
11:39:14 So reduce energy use.
11:39:19 And history repeat again, I urge you to adopt the
11:39:30 green ordinance as a small step but a leap.
11:39:38 Thank you.
11:39:39 >>> Good morning.
11:39:41 Karen Crouse, here in the city.
11:39:44 I'm urge you to catch up with the rest of the country.
11:39:47 I don't have anything profound to say.
11:39:49 I think you are probably going to hear a lot of kind
11:39:51 of the same message over and over.
11:39:52 But I did want to share with you, and I don't
11:39:55 necessarily like comparisons, but the city of
11:39:57 St. Petersburg is kicking our butt.
11:40:01 They have been certified as a green city.
11:40:03 And when I went to a presentation where they were
11:40:06 talking about how this has infiltrated every single
11:40:08 department within the city, A it was initiated by City
11:40:12 Council, and from what I understand, the different
11:40:15 directors of the departments aren't necessarily very
11:40:20 enthused about this.
11:40:21 I understood the fiscal impact to each of our budgets,
11:40:24 and it makes sense from an economic standpoint, they
11:40:27 are totally on board now.
11:40:31 I asked how many developers have actually taken
11:40:33 advantage of these different, you know, permit and
11:40:36 impact fee reductions, and they said it really only a
11:40:40 handful for the symbolism, that the city is trying to
11:40:43 proactively encourage this.
11:40:45 They are hoping it will lead to some green collar
11:40:49 jobs, kind of a new term, to incubate some great new
11:40:53 businesses in the city but I think the general fund
11:40:55 argument can be countered with the savings on the
11:40:58 avoidance of the energy usage, and power plant and all
11:41:02 those kinds of issues.
11:41:03 So I encourage you to pass some contained of
11:41:05 resolution and make it as robust as possible.
11:41:10 >>> Don Amanyon, the chairman of creative Tampa Bay
11:41:22 and also the chairman of the Florida Aquarium.
11:41:24 I come to you today representing creative Tampa Bay.
11:41:28 However, I'm very proud of my aquarium because
11:41:33 certainly its mission is one of sustainability.
11:41:37 I think you might be wondering why a group that
11:41:41 promotes economic development through creative
11:41:44 industries might be talking to you about green.
11:41:47 But it's very important for us to have the entire
11:41:50 community, to have that green discussion, because
11:41:53 sustainability, and emphasis on environmentally sound
11:41:57 and green principles makes us a more economically
11:42:03 viable communicate.
11:42:04 I'm glad to hear that council and the mayor are taking
11:42:06 leadership positions on this critical issue, and you
11:42:10 obviously now are starting to get the idea that
11:42:12 there's a huge ground swell of support for going
11:42:16 But the mayor and the council must really work
11:42:19 together to resolve their differences related to this
11:42:23 initiative, so that community members can actually go
11:42:25 forward and actually start to support you.
11:42:28 Tampa must do more to encourage design, and
11:42:31 construction of green building.
11:42:33 We must do that.
11:42:34 We have to provide incentives for developers to build
11:42:38 There is a bit of a stumbling block there because it
11:42:41 requires investment on part of the developer.
11:42:44 And if we don't have them -- help them and give them
11:42:47 incentive and make it easier for them to build those
11:42:50 green buildings we are not going to see the economic
11:42:52 benefit of that.
11:42:53 And that's what's really valuable.
11:42:56 This is a question on the economic level as well as
11:42:59 environmental level.
11:43:00 So our infrastructure issues not withstanding, we must
11:43:04 work together to certify Tampa as the green city, that
11:43:08 is part of a green region.
11:43:10 Adopting green ordinances is an excellent place to
11:43:14 So creative incentives for builders and contractors
11:43:17 must be considered as the council and the mayor
11:43:20 collaborate to finalize the plan.
11:43:22 On behalf of creative Tampa Bay we encourage the city
11:43:25 to pursue the design, green certification, and
11:43:28 encourage other activities that will help us all go
11:43:33 Thank you.
11:43:33 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a question.
11:43:37 Isn't the aquarium working on retrofitting the
11:43:41 aquarium with some green --
11:43:45 >>> yes, actually we have a green committee.
11:43:47 And so internally -- and this is a wonderful thing for
11:43:50 any group, any business, any organization, public,
11:43:53 private, to do -- is to convene a green committee and
11:43:57 look at how internal to the operation, you can leave a
11:44:00 smaller footprint.
11:44:01 In addition to that, we are looking at over time, it
11:44:05 will require an investment that we are studying the
11:44:08 prospect of more sustainable impact on a retrofit.
11:44:13 Where that goes at this point, and when we start that,
11:44:17 has to be determined.
11:44:18 Thank you.
11:44:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:44:25 >>> Jack Devocca, was here last week.
11:44:31 I'm a resource guy so I am going to submit a couple of
11:44:33 things really quick.
11:44:35 Genre sources we have.
11:44:39 I represent USGVC emerging green buildings of USF.
11:44:46 I just want to say that I am really, really excited
11:44:48 about the prospect of this.
11:44:51 Our leaders have really become -- our city can really
11:44:56 become a leader in this growing movement and your
11:44:58 serious discussion on this matter is really a
11:45:00 testament to the progressive thinking that is starting
11:45:03 to come about here.
11:45:05 And this is also a really good recognition of the
11:45:08 trends that are going on, and the ability to grow.
11:45:12 So last week I kind of spoke to you in generalities
11:45:15 about the benefits of green building.
11:45:17 You know, energy conservation, health benefits,
11:45:21 greenhouse gas emissions.
11:45:24 Those are all generalities.
11:45:27 We met the -- the emerging green builders met the
11:45:30 other day and want to propose something, give you guys
11:45:32 some more hard statistics.
11:45:34 And actually when you are talking about Super Bowl you
11:45:36 wanted numbers.
11:45:37 Well, the numbers here, you know, and I have kind of
11:45:40 given you some of those.
11:45:42 In the United States we are only 5% of the world's
11:45:45 population but consume 30% of the world's resources.
11:45:48 So from that point of view, you know, buildings
11:45:52 specifically account for 65% of all electricity
11:45:55 Just buildings.
11:45:56 So green buildings can reduce energy from 30 to 50%,
11:46:01 anywhere in that range.
11:46:02 It can also reduce 35% of carbon emissions, 40% of
11:46:06 water use, or 70% solid waste.
11:46:08 And those are huge numbers.
11:46:10 Really, it's buildings.
11:46:12 Because of the significant impact that buildings pose
11:46:15 to us in our environment, it's really -- that is the
11:46:18 key part of where we can make a difference.
11:46:21 You know, it's great to say, okay, this neighborhood
11:46:23 or that neighborhood or this person or that person
11:46:27 makes all the difference.
11:46:28 Collectively we can.
11:46:29 But buildings are the big ticket item, so to speak.
11:46:32 So I just want to support the green ordinance.
11:46:36 I think it's very important.
11:46:38 And what we have here in front of us is an
11:46:43 An opportunity to invest in the future of our local
11:46:45 economy, its community and its people.
11:46:47 It's the totality of everything here.
11:46:50 It's an opportunity to lay a foundation and make a
11:46:52 statement that Tampa supports small business and
11:46:54 promotes innovative technology.
11:46:56 And finally, as a member of the EGBUSF, local chapter
11:47:02 and the college of business, I would like to offer you
11:47:05 guys my assistance and assistance of those groups to
11:47:09 provide research, resources, consultation, whatever
11:47:11 you gays need.
11:47:13 I'm more than happy to do any kind of groundwork or
11:47:17 To help us in the Tampa Bay community be more
11:47:19 sustainable both environmentally and economically.
11:47:22 Thanks again for having us.
11:47:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think we need your professional
11:47:32 >>> My name is Karen Sabia, 2010 east Palm Avenue.
11:47:38 >> A little louder, Karen.
11:47:40 >>> Okay.
11:47:41 Is this any better? 2010 east Palm Avenue.
11:47:45 I live in the City of Tampa.
11:47:46 I work in the City of Tampa.
11:47:48 And you definitely heard me up here before asking you
11:47:52 to be bold on many issues related to building green,
11:47:57 density, growing responsibly and sustainably, and my
11:48:00 message will be no different today, other than to say
11:48:04 that we are already behind.
11:48:06 So this really isn't a bold step, because there are so
11:48:11 many cities that have taken a lead, and if Tampa hopes
11:48:16 to join them in that leadership, we must take this
11:48:19 step soon.
11:48:21 Baby steps aren't going to get us there.
11:48:23 The slower we move the more damage we do.
11:48:26 The more damage we do to our budget, to our tax
11:48:29 dollars, to our environment, to our health.
11:48:32 The more damage we do to the future of our city, the
11:48:36 future of its citizens, the future of its use.
11:48:41 I hope that we can really take this step forward.
11:48:45 I urge you to seriously consider the benefits that
11:48:49 will come from the ordinance that provides incentives
11:48:54 to builders.
11:48:55 We want to bring the good development here.
11:48:57 Density is coming.
11:48:58 Let's do it responsibly.
11:49:00 Let's do it sustainably.
11:49:02 And let's do it so that we can provide a better
11:49:05 economy for our city.
11:49:08 So, please, please seriously consider this.
11:49:11 Three years from now.
11:49:12 I don't want to be back up here asking you to do the
11:49:15 same thing.
11:49:16 Thank you.
11:49:22 >>> Ed Turanchik.
11:49:24 I have a two-FER today.
11:49:27 Thank you for the efficiency.
11:49:28 I am principal of Intown homes.
11:49:30 We are an in-fill building company.
11:49:32 We actually are bringing on line March 3rd Tampa
11:49:36 Bay's first green affordable home that will be 199 and
11:49:42 cut energy use 58%.
11:49:46 About 41% less.
11:49:48 You have heard all the public policy issues about why
11:49:51 to do this.
11:49:52 There's a practical, political one.
11:49:54 January 20th of next year, we'll have a new
11:49:57 president of the United States, and both believe,
11:50:00 whoever they are that are running, global warming is a
11:50:03 serious issue, and that the country needs to do
11:50:06 something differently.
11:50:08 If Tampa does nothing, it's behind.
11:50:11 We can no longer do nothing.
11:50:13 To be competitive, you have to do more than nothing.
11:50:18 You have to do more than just a little.
11:50:21 We are fortunate that we have a council and mayor
11:50:25 that's forward looking.
11:50:26 I think a lot of good comments were made up here
11:50:29 I think you should focus on those things that can be
11:50:31 done and can be done well and soon.
11:50:33 I would urge you to jettison the notion of density
11:50:36 credits for green housing.
11:50:38 People get wrapped around an axle on that issue and
11:50:42 there's no reason to do that.
11:50:44 Focus on the things of how to encourage the building
11:50:47 sector to move forward.
11:50:49 I think the motion of providing a modest amount of
11:50:51 incentives is a sensible one.
11:50:54 I think that people aren't understanding that when you
11:50:57 all share the same utility, if we can reduce energy
11:51:01 consumption for all new construction, everyone
11:51:04 benefits, because when don't have to build as much
11:51:07 new, expensive plant.
11:51:11 We are all part of this continent and part of this,
11:51:15 but that holds for us, when we are energy efficient,
11:51:18 inefficient, it costs us all.
11:51:21 The cost of construction of a new power plant versus
11:51:26 Specific comments with respect to this ordinance, and
11:51:31 I have to commend councilman Dingfelder who has done a
11:51:34 wonderful job talking to builders and residents and
11:51:36 getting comments and having incentive based program,
11:51:40 that is sensible.
11:51:41 I think the administration is moving in the right
11:51:43 I think they have got appropriate comments.
11:51:46 One thing I do want to point out, though, on page 5,
11:51:50 paragraph B, let's get it through our mind that if I,
11:51:57 or other builders, can build a house that uses 50%
11:52:02 water and requires 50% sewage, it's not a rebate to
11:52:08 We should not be charged as much because we are not
11:52:11 using the system as much.
11:52:14 The person who moves into that house should not be
11:52:16 charged as much.
11:52:19 If the impact fee basis.
11:52:22 So it's not a rebate.
11:52:23 I would argue if I build a house that uses 50% less
11:52:26 sewage and you charge me the same as a house that uses
11:52:34 100% more, I am subsidizing the waster.
11:52:38 So it's not a rebate.
11:52:39 It's appropriately charging user fees for people that
11:52:43 use it.
11:52:44 So if you would provide flexibility in your ordinance
11:52:47 to say, Ed Turanchik or whoever, you go out and
11:52:50 produce a house that's got gray water systems to it
11:52:55 and I'm discharging washer, sink water into my garden
11:53:02 and not into the sewage system, I shouldn't have to
11:53:04 pay, nor should that customer have to pay the same
11:53:07 amount of rebates, or same amount of fees as someone
11:53:12 who doesn't do it.
11:53:13 There's a lot of technical issues about that.
11:53:15 But that's one thing I really would encourage the city
11:53:17 to look heavily at.
11:53:19 We are interested in doing it.
11:53:20 I've heard other builders that are interested in doing
11:53:24 You know what the water situation is.
11:53:26 The cheapest way of producing new supply, whether it's
11:53:30 a water, or energy, is the conservation.
11:53:33 Not only is it good for everyone here, it's good for
11:53:35 the people who live in their homes, and the people it
11:53:39 affects most are the people --
11:53:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Time is up.
11:53:42 >>> Thank you very much.
11:53:42 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a question for you.
11:53:44 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted -- it sounds to me like
11:53:47 we should be working toward changing the way that we
11:53:53 assess impact fees because right now based on the
11:53:57 footprint of the building, that size, and how much --
11:54:00 isn't that what it is, how much of the ground is
11:54:05 covered, at least for the water.
11:54:08 And if we started to look instead at what the usage of
11:54:12 the resources is going to be, I mean, I think in the
11:54:16 short term, we just could calculate that for the
11:54:20 buildings that are being built as green.
11:54:22 But when we have, you know, that impact fee for water,
11:54:27 it's not based on the kind of building and the way the
11:54:33 buildings -- how much resources.
11:54:35 >> That's correct.
11:54:36 I mean, it's simple economics and simple fairness.
11:54:39 And if you price things right, environmentalists have
11:54:44 said this for a long time, strip out the subsidies,
11:54:47 let the markets work.
11:54:48 If you truly even have subsidies of things, people
11:54:52 respond to price.
11:54:53 So if you can build a house, honestly, I would rather
11:54:58 spend $3,000 on a gray water system, than pay $3 that
11:55:04 you for sewer and water fee.
11:55:06 It costs me the same.
11:55:07 But the net benefit for society, for everything else,
11:55:11 is far better.
11:55:12 Now, there's technical issues with that.
11:55:15 But I think that should be our standard to say, what
11:55:19 do we need to do to get to the point where we create
11:55:22 regulatory and permitting fees that incentivize and
11:55:28 properly assess the right conduct.
11:55:32 >> You and I think basically in this case you are
11:55:35 saying the same thing that Mr. Johnson said, that the
11:55:37 impact fees -- like you are saying it not a reward but
11:55:43 it also means if you are not building, to conserve,
11:55:45 then your fees are going to have to go up.
11:55:47 Do you agree with him that you can balance it that
11:55:52 Impact fees are going to be lower for your green
11:55:54 It might have to go up a little bit for the new
11:56:02 >>> I don't know how impact the whole system and that
11:56:05 may ab question for the administration to look at all
11:56:07 the utilities.
11:56:07 But if you have got to meet your budget of whatever it
11:56:10 is per year to build plant, the people who pay less
11:56:16 should -- the people who use more should pay more.
11:56:20 That's what this is supposed to be about.
11:56:21 >> Right.
11:56:23 And Mr. Johnson is concerned about that, and it makes
11:56:25 sense, there's an incentive and disincentive, right?
11:56:29 Then sen tiff is you are going to get a lower impact
11:56:33 fee if you go green.
11:56:34 I don't see why it wouldn't go up.
11:56:38 >>> I believe that we should charge the right rate for
11:56:42 the right use.
11:56:43 And that a green builder comes around and building
11:56:47 something that is more efficient.
11:56:51 That should be recognized in price, and praises
11:56:57 charged by government services.
11:57:00 So at the end of the day, whether that has a rate
11:57:03 impact on everyone else or not, I can't tell you,
11:57:06 because it might be avoiding some future expenditure.
11:57:10 And so it's not a rate reduction, but it's an
11:57:13 avoidance of future costs for building the next desal
11:57:17 plant or the next pipeline, whichever.
11:57:21 I don't know how translates in the system.
11:57:24 >>CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
11:57:27 >>> Joe Robinson, president of RVC and associate,
11:57:38 Inc., consulting engineering, mechanical, plumbing,
11:57:41 fabrication in energy engineering for the last 17
11:57:45 Green building is nothing.
11:57:49 Risk a $95,000 deal running my mouth right now and I
11:57:52 hate to do this but I'm putting $95,000 on the line
11:57:57 right now for this green thing.
11:57:59 Spring Hill park community center and gymnasium, I
11:58:04 have been asked to submit a fee on.
11:58:05 I'm having issues with that.
11:58:11 They told me to do a letter bit of green.
11:58:13 So we don't need these ordinances.
11:58:14 We don't need all other place.
11:58:17 You just tell the city architect, and Mr. Bond, that
11:58:21 if a mechanical evening necessary wants to look at
11:58:23 something green right now on a $3.9 million facility,
11:58:31 he needs to negotiate with Mr. Robinson some kind of
11:58:36 compulsion that my fee isn't excessive.
11:58:40 The easiest thing you can do.
11:58:46 Do need an ordinance.
11:58:47 That is where you look at all the design criteria that
11:58:50 you are supposed to have has been done.
11:58:52 I do this day in and day out all the time for the last
11:58:55 20, 30 years.
11:58:56 This is nothing new.
11:58:58 The only thing new is calling it green and we used to
11:59:02 call it building efficiency and you can go complex,
11:59:05 you can go simple.
11:59:06 But we can't do it all because it costs a lot of
11:59:11 But water system, when I'm putting in ducts, look at
11:59:17 water system, electrical systems, lights come on when
11:59:20 you walk in, looking at CO2 monitors so you can cut
11:59:23 the air conditioning off, all of these things are not
11:59:26 necessarily be asked about, but they are telling me to
11:59:29 take a look at it but they don't want to pay for it.
11:59:31 Green costs you because you build with it, deal with
11:59:34 the design up front.
11:59:36 Green is not a back-end deal.
11:59:38 Green is upfront design, upfront review, upfront
11:59:44 Well, your staff is telling me my price is too high
11:59:48 and I'm going to tell them at 3:00 my price is not too
11:59:52 I'm not going to do something stupid.
11:59:53 I'm not going to do something for the city and this is
11:59:58 the third time I have had opportunity to do something
12:00:01 with the city for 10 or 15 years for fighting on
12:00:03 minority business and I'm putting it oh line day
12:00:07 saying this project ought to have a little bit of
12:00:09 green and they are telling me different, look at it
12:00:12 And I don't want to make it green because if I do it's
12:00:14 going to run the price up.
12:00:15 But I will look at, as best I can, anything to do, and
12:00:19 definitely build -- we want to know that they work.
12:00:24 You don't want to go back and find out they are not
12:00:26 Downtown want to find out the outside areas are not
12:00:29 matched up.
12:00:29 You don't want to do with anything, at the school
12:00:33 board about their reputation ask, the county about my
12:00:37 I am doing a study now for the whole MOSI museum of
12:00:42 science and industry.
12:00:43 You just approved an agreement to put a new chiller
12:00:45 over there at the convention center.
12:00:47 Did anybody say be green?
12:00:49 They said efficient.
12:00:50 What I'm saying, I'm an engineer.
12:00:54 I'm here to serve the city.
12:00:56 But the ethics and my profession I had to come here
12:00:59 and say that I may lose $95,000 a year.
12:01:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Next.
12:01:05 >>> I'm a senior at USF and emerging green builder as
12:01:11 I'm actually a transient resident.
12:01:13 I'm only here for school.
12:01:14 I don't plan be here when I graduate.
12:01:18 The city is pretty far behind in green initiatives.
12:01:20 And if you want to be a city of the art you have to
12:01:24 keep and attract creative talent.
12:01:26 Creative talent is effective forward thinking.
12:01:31 Without an official green building ordinance, you will
12:01:32 not be a forward thinking city, and creative people
12:01:34 will not want to live here. I talk to art students,
12:01:37 graphic design students and engineering students who
12:01:39 intend to stay in Tampa after graduation.
12:01:42 If you want to keep these people here without negative
12:01:45 implications, I urge to you consider building green.
12:01:47 Thank you.
12:01:49 >> For the record I need your name.
12:01:50 >>> Oh. Mike --
12:01:54 >> Where are you from?
12:01:55 >> (unintelligible)
12:01:57 >>> Good morning.
12:02:05 My name is Cathy Byrd.
12:02:07 My address is 402 east Lake Avenue.
12:02:10 I am a state licensed general contractor, and I am an
12:02:12 in-fill developer currently working in the East Tampa
12:02:17 We as a firm have committed ourselves completely to
12:02:20 become green by the year 2009 on every project that we
12:02:24 do regardless of whether it's requested by the
12:02:28 customer or not.
12:02:29 It's the appropriate thing to do.
12:02:30 I have also been committing a tremendous number of
12:02:32 resources, personal resources to educating myself and
12:02:35 all of my staff, and we are all in the process of
12:02:38 achieving every accreditation that is available in the
12:02:41 green building arena.
12:02:45 We still have a ways to go.
12:02:47 To that end one of the things I did want to speak to
12:02:49 the ordinance specifically is as a construction
12:02:52 industry professional, as a past pfft it associated
12:02:57 contractors, we are as an industry going green.
12:02:59 Whether the City of Tampa adopts an ordinance or not.
12:03:02 Because our customers mandate us.
12:03:05 As a developer, as my customer becomes more educated,
12:03:09 my customers demands that the homes that I build for
12:03:12 them are built green, are built responsibly.
12:03:15 I am going to do it whether the city adopts the
12:03:17 ordinance or not.
12:03:18 But there are things that I cannot do, that I have no
12:03:21 control over, I don't have any power over, and you do.
12:03:24 And that is transportation is an excellent example.
12:03:28 Water and sewer handling and piping.
12:03:32 I can't do anything about that for you but you have
12:03:34 total control over it.
12:03:35 You can give me incentives as a developer, as a
12:03:38 contractor, as a building department.
12:03:39 You can give me those incentives.
12:03:41 But I am going to do it whether you give me the
12:03:43 incentives or not.
12:03:44 But what I do, much to what Ed Turanchik was talking
12:03:48 about earlier, is incent the owner, the building
12:03:53 owner, to want the green in the first place.
12:03:57 Do they have to spend more money?
12:03:59 Believe it or not -- and I have done the side by side
12:04:01 comparison -- I can build green cheaper than I can
12:04:04 build conventional.
12:04:06 It just costs me less as a builder.
12:04:08 So as a result I can make it available to the public
12:04:10 for less.
12:04:11 But the public then needs to maintain that building in
12:04:15 a green fashion.
12:04:16 Because they can actually end up -- because they don't
12:04:24 know the difference.
12:04:25 Incent them to maintain, incent the property owner to
12:04:28 maintain the building in a green fashion.
12:04:30 Charging them an appropriate fee because they demand
12:04:33 less resources, charge them less.
12:04:37 Don't charge them the same.
12:04:38 It is not one size fits all.
12:04:40 But know exactly what it is you are incenting.
12:04:43 I appreciate that you want top reward me to encourage
12:04:46 me to become green.
12:04:47 But the fact is that if I wasn't willing to invest my
12:04:50 own resources to educate myself as to what exactly
12:04:53 does that mean to be green, it's a sexy word right
12:04:56 It is being thrown around like aids used to be thrown
12:05:01 around like, oh, my God, we are going to scare the
12:05:04 world to death.
12:05:05 Now it's green.
12:05:05 Now we are going to be green and we want to be green.
12:05:08 What does that mean that we are green?
12:05:10 We need to be educated.
12:05:11 And I would just as soon see the city spend its money
12:05:14 and resources in educating and promoting, and then
12:05:17 rewarding for those who have done it, not those who
12:05:20 say they are going to do it, not those who say they
12:05:22 are marketing we are going to do it, those that are
12:05:25 actually doing it.
12:05:25 Thank you.
12:05:31 >>> Ron Rotella.
12:05:35 I only have a couple comments on one section of it.
12:05:37 I agree with what Ed talked about, and what the
12:05:40 previous speaker talked about, and when I get done
12:05:44 with this project, believe me, I'll give you some
12:05:46 testimony on impact fees, school impact fees, and
12:05:49 zoning fees, here a fee, there a fee, everywhere a
12:05:53 fee-fee, that costs to the cost of affordable housing.
12:05:57 But what I want to focus on today is your provision on
12:05:59 affordable housing.
12:06:00 I will tell you that, as Mr. Robinson said, what I'm
12:06:03 doing right now is planning in the design of the unit,
12:06:07 working with the builder, to make sure these units are
12:06:10 energy efficient.
12:06:15 Because it will cost the ultimate home buyer less.
12:06:17 But I don't want to pay somebody $600 a unit to have
12:06:21 my unit certified as being green.
12:06:25 I don't want to have to go to 14,000 SER on the air
12:06:31 conditioner when I am putting in 13,000 and there's no
12:06:33 payback to the home buyer, but I have to do that to
12:06:37 get my green certification.
12:06:39 And then, of course, I don't know what this means when
12:06:42 it says if city funds are in the project after October
12:06:48 1st, well, it nothing to do with construction
12:06:51 When you do plans and specifications, and they are
12:06:54 approved, that's the home you are going to build, you
12:06:56 certainly wouldn't want to go back and have to
12:06:58 redesign your home, because you are getting funds from
12:07:00 the city after October 1st.
12:07:03 I agree with the intent of this provision for
12:07:05 affordable housing.
12:07:06 I'm doing it for all the right reasons.
12:07:08 I think we just need to look at these provisions a
12:07:11 little closer, because as with the affordable housing,
12:07:15 as is not the case with some other provisions in the
12:07:17 ordinance, it says mandatory.
12:07:19 So when it says mandatory, they have got my attention.
12:07:22 But I want to a sure you that it's my intent to make
12:07:27 sure that to the extent that is practical and cost
12:07:31 efficient, that we will make each one of these housing
12:07:34 units green because it makes sense to do so, not
12:07:39 because it's mandated.
12:07:40 And I don't want to pay $600 a unit to say, Ron, you
12:07:47 didn't meet the Florida green communities
12:07:49 certification, but give us $600 a unit.
12:07:52 Thank you.
12:07:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Madam Chair, I know it's past 12:00
12:07:56 and you don't mind staying any longer here.
12:07:58 I know that 12:00 means somebody is staying here or
12:08:02 somebody is leaving.
12:08:03 But I agreed with most of everything what everybody
12:08:08 I agree most with the young lady named Cathy, I think
12:08:12 it's Byrd.
12:08:14 She's doing it for the right reason.
12:08:17 And I had written down some questions here.
12:08:20 Who certifies what?
12:08:23 Who are they?
12:08:24 What do they make out of it?
12:08:25 In this country everything is based on money.
12:08:27 I don't care what anybody says.
12:08:28 So what I am saying is, what's the cost?
12:08:30 And I believe Mr. Rotella alluded to that, that it
12:08:33 costs about $600 a unit to certify and apartment
12:08:38 That's green all right.
12:08:39 Green going from somebody's pocket to somebody else's
12:08:43 And I'm for the green ordinance.
12:08:45 I agree with what Mr. Johnson said about the general
12:08:47 fund and not being used revenues.
12:08:50 I also agree about building green.
12:08:52 Lee Iacocca, the best words, either lead, follow or
12:08:57 get the hell out of the way.
12:08:59 How many of us that spoke today are really leaders?
12:09:02 How many of you have done everything you are asking us
12:09:04 to do?
12:09:04 And how many of us ourselves are doing the same things
12:09:09 we keep asking everybody else to do?
12:09:12 In other words, are we obsessed on green?
12:09:15 What's our daily water consumption?
12:09:17 What's our energy cost?
12:09:18 How many do we have in the right position that costs a
12:09:22 lot more money to buy unusually but saves awe lot more
12:09:25 These are the things that have been mulling around in
12:09:27 my mind.
12:09:29 And when you come here and testify, and you are
12:09:31 testifying in a way to me, anyway, how many of you
12:09:33 have done that yourselves?
12:09:35 How many buildings do you live in?
12:09:38 How many apartments do you own that are green?
12:09:40 How many things have you done for yourselves to make
12:09:41 this community a better place to live?
12:09:43 And I'm not trying -- believe me, I'm on your side.
12:09:47 But on the other hand if I was to use my good friend
12:09:51 Ed Turanchik's model, I'm owed a lot of money from the
12:09:54 school board because my kids went to private school
12:09:56 but that was my choice.
12:09:58 My grandkids all go to public school.
12:10:00 So the six girls that live here and the ones that live
12:10:04 in the county I love them dearly but they are too far
12:10:07 away for me to see on a daily basis. What I am saying
12:10:11 is these are the things that we have to look at.
12:10:13 I'm not asking for a rebate from the county.
12:10:16 I would rather build schools than build jails.
12:10:19 And these same models that I am using in my own mind
12:10:25 try to work and solve the green ordinance.
12:10:27 And I apologize to the gentleman that I'm taking your
12:10:29 time here, sir, and I apologize to you.
12:10:31 But these are the things that I'm looking at.
12:10:34 I'm looking at what am I doing as one individual?
12:10:38 Forget about being elected or not elected, to make
12:10:41 this a better place for us to live long-term.
12:10:44 Well, you just wait and see.
12:10:48 I'm asking all of you to wait and see and do what you
12:10:50 have to do when you come to this Mike and.
12:10:53 Not only today but in the future.
12:10:56 What are you doing?
12:10:58 Don't tell me what I need to do.
12:11:00 What are you doing to make me want to do what you say
12:11:04 you have already done?
12:11:05 Thank you, Madam Chair.
12:11:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I had a question for Mr. Rotella,
12:11:09 if he's still here, and that is -- and that is, when
12:11:17 you are building these affordable units, has the city
12:11:22 technical standards been a barrier, or have they
12:11:25 allowed you to do what you wanted to do that was
12:11:30 >>> Well, I have not submitted by building plans yet.
12:11:34 But what I'm doing, again, is looking at the unit and
12:11:40 trying to do everything I can, because these are going
12:11:43 to be low to moderate income families.
12:11:46 And every dollar I can save them on energy costs,
12:11:48 water couples, means it's more money in their pocket.
12:11:52 And I'm working with a consultant, and the consultant
12:11:55 is cautioning.
12:11:57 For example, Mr. Miranda, when I indicated the
12:12:00 certification, and the certification fee was per unit,
12:12:06 and to go from 13 SER to 14,000 SER, that's a thousand
12:12:13 dollars per unit.
12:12:14 And the only thing I'm saying -- and believe me, my
12:12:17 heart is in this ordinance.
12:12:19 I appreciate and support the intent of it.
12:12:23 You need to look at the payback.
12:12:27 Because if it's going to raise the monthly housing
12:12:31 costs of the end user, and the payback is not there,
12:12:36 then you have to look at what you are doing.
12:12:38 And, you know, for me to get a certification, increase
12:12:43 the air conditioning units to 14 SER rather than 14
12:12:46 SER which costs a thousand dollars a unit and then pay
12:12:49 $600 to have each unit certified, does that make sense
12:12:52 to a low to moderate income family?
12:12:56 Because that will go towards the price of the home,
12:12:58 and ultimately they'll pay for that.
12:13:04 But don't misconstrue what I'm saying.
12:13:06 It is not -- there are some issues to be worked out.
12:13:11 There's a little bit of fine tuning.
12:13:13 I support the intent.
12:13:17 >>MARY MULHERN: Mr. Rotella, do you have problems not
12:13:20 just with the cost of the actual certification but
12:13:22 also some of the requirements of it?
12:13:25 I mean, if we had our staff was LEED qualified to
12:13:33 certify, is that one of the things we are will go at?
12:13:38 >>RON ROTELLA: I'm meeting with TECO this afternoon at
12:13:41 4:00 and TECO has an energy certification program.
12:13:45 So I suggested to TECO that why don't you get one of
12:13:48 your people certified?
12:13:51 And they said we'll look into that.
12:13:53 And I have asked them, how can you make the units more
12:13:56 efficient to me?
12:13:58 And they are saying, like, for example, they'll donate
12:14:04 gas water heaters, run gas lines in, but the
12:14:07 certification issue, you know, somebody is going to
12:14:09 have to pay for that certification.
12:14:11 So I think the city could have a staff person that's
12:14:14 certified, TECO, but to pay a $600 certification fee
12:14:18 per unit.
12:14:18 The other thing is on impact fees.
12:14:20 You want to give you an example, Mary.
12:14:24 One quick one? School impact fee for me is $3300 a
12:14:31 This project will be two blocks from the school.
12:14:34 So they'll pay school impact fees.
12:14:36 Those school impact fees will go to build a school in
12:14:40 I'll still have to pay over $3,000 per unit for school
12:14:44 impact fees.
12:14:52 >>> Spencer Cass, realty.
12:14:57 Make this really quick.
12:14:58 First to answer Mr. Miranda's question.
12:15:01 I get approximately 32 million miles a gallon.
12:15:05 My office build sag green building.
12:15:07 Special windows have special tint on them, they don't
12:15:09 have heat bug run lights during the day for people to
12:15:13 do work inside our office.
12:15:14 Our house uses the exact same technologies.
12:15:18 At our office we use -- we use tempest water heaters,
12:15:26 only heated on demand.
12:15:27 We use high efficiency energy light bulbs in our
12:15:31 I use that as well in my office house.
12:15:33 And there are some things that are more expensive to
12:15:36 Getting into the actual details of this, nobody I have
12:15:41 spoken to has any problem with the city leading by
12:15:44 Nobody has a problem with you guys changing out your
12:15:47 light bulbs, putting in automatic thermostats.
12:15:50 I have in my office that turn themselves on and off
12:15:53 certain tames of the day.
12:15:57 Everybody is 100% in favor of that.
12:16:00 You get benefit immediately.
12:16:01 I think the devil here is really in the details.
12:16:03 There's going to have to be addressed in the technical
12:16:06 code made.
12:16:07 I suggest if you are going to discuss a green
12:16:09 ordinance you do the provisions at the same time, not
12:16:11 further down the road because you pass a greeneen
12:16:14 ordinance, you can't do it technically under the city,
12:16:16 you have done nothing.
12:16:17 I would also suggest that you give the department an
12:16:24 opportunity to review some very complex issues that
12:16:26 have been brought to their attention.
12:16:28 Before city staff, a large amount of time in the
12:16:31 ordinance section of this, I think then you could do
12:16:33 some research on a number of legal issues which won't
12:16:39 get into right now.
12:16:40 Is this being done the way county be presented and
12:16:43 then go forward?
12:16:46 You have to spend a lot of staff time drafting
12:16:48 ordinances and then find out that we have to strike
12:16:50 the whole thing.
12:16:51 Thank you very much.
12:16:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Cindy Miller?
12:16:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let's discuss the timing.
12:17:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I can be here to no later than 1:45
12:17:06 then I have to be somewhere that I have to go.
12:17:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Hopefully have four council
12:17:13 Ms. Mulhern, can you come back after lunch?
12:17:16 >>MARY MULHERN: I can be hear till 2:30.
12:17:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you want to take a half hour
12:17:21 break for lunch?
12:17:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Let's take a half hour.
12:17:24 Let's take a half hour break for lunch.
12:17:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I mean, we have got eight or nine
12:17:29 issues that we need to walk through.
12:17:32 I would say between the two of us, or all of us, it's
12:17:34 going to take maybe an hour, hour and a half to walk
12:17:37 through those, optimistically.
12:17:40 So I would say we take a half hour break and we come
12:17:43 back at --
12:17:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 12:45.
12:17:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 12:45.
12:17:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And see how far we get.
12:17:58 >>GWEN MILLER: I won't be back at 12:45.
12:18:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If you want to keep meeting, Mr.
12:18:05 Dingfelder, I'll keep meeting.
12:18:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I want to apologize to
12:18:10 council because I had thought Mr. Rotella was the last
12:18:13 speaker, and I didn't interrupt at 12:00.
12:18:15 I just wanted to remind council of their rules so at
12:18:18 least there was some direction at 12:00.
12:18:19 That not being the case, I apologize.
12:18:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can you be back at one?
12:18:35 >> Let's try for 1:00.
12:18:36 >>GWEN MILLER: We stand adjourned until 1:00.
12:18:40 (City Council recess at 12:20 p.m. until 1:13 p.m.)
12:19:05 >> Roll call.
13:13:53 [Roll Call]
13:13:54 >> We will now here from Cindy Miller.
13:13:59 >>CINDY MILLER: Director of growth management
13:14:01 development services.
13:14:02 I think from what we heard this morning, I think you
13:14:06 will agree there was a lot that we do agree on.
13:14:09 And I think there's a number of items that we can go
13:14:11 forward on.
13:14:12 But let me just date you on a couple of things.
13:14:15 The City of Tampa through my office is a member now of
13:14:17 the U.S. green building council.
13:14:19 We have an application pending with the Florida Green
13:14:21 Building Coalition.
13:14:23 They require a paper check.
13:14:25 I wasn't able to do it electronically.
13:14:28 So our application is pending so that was processed.
13:14:31 >> Just make sure the check is good.
13:14:33 >> We are going to make sure the check is good.
13:14:35 And that is pending but we have made application.
13:14:39 And I think we all agree on the goal for city
13:14:45 buildings, the LEED standards, I think when it comes
13:14:50 to what we want to look at from a standpoint of
13:14:52 becoming a certified green city.
13:14:54 We have heard that St. Petersburg already is, by
13:14:57 making application with Florida Green Building
13:14:59 Coalition and USGBC, our initial steps to becoming a
13:15:05 certified green city and start working through that
13:15:07 application process.
13:15:08 When it comes to a number of the other items, I think
13:15:11 before you, Mr. Dingfelder's orthopedics as well as
13:15:14 that which we submitted from an overall standpoint, I
13:15:17 think we have a lot in common.
13:15:19 And I hope that this council will give us direction so
13:15:21 that we, working with city attorney's office, can
13:15:23 start initiating sort of a consolidated ordinance
13:15:27 resolution so we can go forward.
13:15:29 I think even using the terminology, I think we really
13:15:32 have a bunch of things we are combining.
13:15:34 I think the overall development of the outline is the
13:15:41 But there's a number of other codes that need to be
13:15:44 modified as we work through those, and those require
13:15:47 So I think we have a combination of factors there.
13:15:49 So that's basically the direction you want to take.
13:15:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder, any questions?
13:15:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, thank you, Madam Chair.
13:16:01 I think everybody should have in front of you my memo
13:16:04 to you all from February 6th.
13:16:13 I had some help from Mr. Shelby.
13:16:15 I appreciate going through this and responding to
13:16:17 In addition you have sort of my -- I call it my blue,
13:16:21 black and red pages that follow.
13:16:25 That's pages 1 through 20-something, I think.
13:16:30 1 through 18.
13:16:34 But basically in the summary dated February 6th we
13:16:36 have decision points.
13:16:37 And I agree with Cindy.
13:16:40 I think that the process that the community has gone
13:16:43 through since last summer at your direction was very,
13:16:49 very instructive.
13:16:52 I think we learned a lot, both myself and staff in
13:16:55 terms of what's going on in the community.
13:16:57 We had great community input from residents, from
13:17:01 professionals who were deeply involved in these
13:17:06 And from that, I went ahead, and over the Christmas
13:17:12 holidays, drafted sort of the proposed green building
13:17:17 Staff has now responded to that ordinance, and
13:17:22 obviously that ordinance was not in final form.
13:17:24 Legal has not had a chance to come through it to make
13:17:27 sure that it's, you know, what would be appropriate to
13:17:31 go in our code, et cetera.
13:17:32 But what I have done is I broke it out provision by
13:17:36 provision and put staff's comments in red, and then my
13:17:40 comments in blue, to help us sort of March through it.
13:17:46 I think it would be helpful -- and I know councilman
13:17:50 Scott will be joining us in a couple of minutes -- I
13:17:52 think it would be helpful if we went ahead and marched
13:17:55 through some of these questions, because Marty did a
13:17:57 real good job of kind of refining it and doing that.
13:17:59 So with that, I think that we could probably do that
13:18:03 over the next hour, and maybe even 45 minutes, because
13:18:06 I know Charlie has to exit for very good cause.
13:18:13 So if we could spend maybe the next 45 minutes or so
13:18:16 marching through these eight or nine questions, and
13:18:20 seeing if we can make some progress.
13:18:21 And then that way, legal, who is in the back of the
13:18:24 room and on the side of the room, can start working on
13:18:28 this and get back to us with a product for us to put
13:18:34 on the books and get moving.
13:18:35 I think one thing we heard this morning unanimously,
13:18:38 people had issues about particular parts, particular
13:18:43 And I think we pretty much heard unanimously that
13:18:46 folks think we need to get on the stick and be doing
13:18:50 St. Petersburg, probably a year or two behind
13:18:52 St. Petersburg, more than a year behind Sarasota, and
13:18:56 those are just our neighboring, you know, cousins who
13:19:00 are ahead of the game.
13:19:01 And then around the country there's more than a
13:19:04 hundred cities and municipalities and counties and
13:19:06 other forms of government who have done this.
13:19:08 So I think it's time we move forward.
13:19:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to start by thanking you for
13:19:17 all your hard work, Mr. Dingfelder.
13:19:19 It's a Yeoman's job.
13:19:21 You have done a great job.
13:19:22 We have S something specific in front of us to respond
13:19:25 to which helps us narrow our conversation.
13:19:27 The very first thing in your list is, does the City
13:19:30 Council want to codify its green building initiatives,
13:19:33 or do they want to give the effect of law in ordinance
13:19:37 form or do they want it as a nonbinding resolution?
13:19:40 Well, I think -- I think it should be in ordinance
13:19:44 form because I think that's going to have the oomph
13:19:49 that's going to get things done.
13:19:50 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
13:19:52 I appreciate the preparatory comments.
13:19:55 Part of the conversations I have had an opportunity to
13:19:57 have with Mr. Dingfelder is I would like to clarify
13:19:59 what we are looking for from council, and that is your
13:20:02 clear direction.
13:20:03 Initially, I think there was a direction to ask
13:20:06 councilman Dingfelder to move forward and create an
13:20:10 ordinance, or whatever the appropriate measure would
13:20:13 And part of the problem in this area, you are finding
13:20:15 that there is terminology that is frequently used in a
13:20:20 specialized way but familiar with it.
13:20:23 For example, green building means a certain thing.
13:20:25 But what we have here is a much more comprehensive
13:20:28 And I think it's good that if you take the time to
13:20:30 consider these issues, you should consider them in a
13:20:32 comprehensive way.
13:20:34 I just add a couple of comments and then you guys just
13:20:37 need -- excuse me, council needs to have their
13:20:39 deliberations in this regard.
13:20:41 On the first one is the only thing I probably have a
13:20:43 serious comment on, and that is, truthfully, I think
13:20:46 there are some things you can pass an ordinance with
13:20:49 respect to.
13:20:50 There are some things you would probably want to
13:20:52 consider as resolutions.
13:20:54 And others you may not be able to effectuate at all.
13:20:57 But let's focus on the things you can do, which is a
13:21:01 Now, why do I say that?
13:21:03 Some of the measures contemplated, I think, really
13:21:08 have to come from council in terms of a resolution or
13:21:11 sense of council what would you like to see the
13:21:13 administration do.
13:21:14 Many of the things you have in here you can simply put
13:21:17 it in an ordinance and pass.
13:21:19 What am I speaking about?
13:21:21 One example -- and we have not analyzed all of this
13:21:23 because until we have direction from council on a
13:21:30 comprehensive approach he would didn't want to spend
13:21:32 too much time on it but one, for example, is an office
13:21:34 of sustainability.
13:21:36 Top to try to contemplate the manner which the offices
13:21:41 are creating, we would have to do that in a manner
13:21:43 consistent with the charter. If you believe that that
13:21:45 office is very important, then you should, by
13:21:47 resolution, in my opinion -- I think you have to under
13:21:50 the charter -- request that the administration
13:21:53 evaluate the viability of creating an office or
13:21:56 creating responsibilities within a given office,
13:21:59 whereas I think some of your other provisions
13:22:01 particularly with regard to the incentives -- and I
13:22:03 think the key measures, the things you heard Mr.
13:22:06 Turanchik talk about, et cetera, those can be
13:22:08 tailored, I think, very appropriately by making
13:22:12 sharply tailored amendments to the ordinances, and you
13:22:15 need to know what the fees are.
13:22:19 And this is the last thing I'll say.
13:22:20 The concept that Mr. Turanchik mentioned is when we
13:22:23 have a building that's going to use less of a
13:22:26 resource, why don't we simply charge them less?
13:22:29 Excellent idea.
13:22:30 We have to figure out how to get there.
13:22:32 Because, as you know, your sewage usage is predicated
13:22:36 upon the water that goes into the building.
13:22:42 Improvements are going to reuse that water in way that
13:22:44 is conserve the resource.
13:22:48 Maybe it would be captured by lowering the water that
13:22:50 comes in but maybe not, and maybe we need simply a
13:22:53 study that allows us to determine what the factor is,
13:22:57 and then that factor is applied to the sewage charge
13:22:59 so that the charge is an appropriate charge.
13:23:02 It's not a rebate that my violate our bond covenant.
13:23:06 It's simply a correct charge for usage.
13:23:08 It seems like a subtle difference but it's a huge
13:23:15 The point sentence, I think we can get there an a lot
13:23:18 of things but need to get there in the right way so we
13:23:20 don't have problems.
13:23:21 I hope that wasn't confusing.
13:23:23 It was intended to be helpful.
13:23:25 If you have any questions I would be happy to
13:23:27 elaborate but I think that's the primary point you
13:23:30 have today.
13:23:35 >>MARY MULHERN: I have several things.
13:23:39 One, I think we should go through your memo, John,
13:23:42 with the numbers list today.
13:23:44 But there were just a few things I wanted to say
13:23:46 before we get started doing that.
13:23:48 And, also, go through the ordinance as far as anywhere
13:23:54 where we have differences between your draft and the
13:24:04 The one thing that really struck me today from the
13:24:07 public comments was that -- and Mr. Miranda really
13:24:10 brought it home -- that we have to practice what we
13:24:14 And I think that -- I don't know if it's in here,
13:24:17 because I haven't studied this.
13:24:19 But we absolutely need to start in the city reducing
13:24:24 our energy uses, and a lot of the things that someone
13:24:30 was mentioning, thermostat, also the light, the lights
13:24:34 should go out when you come in and out.
13:24:37 I don't see why that shouldn't be something that
13:24:39 happens right away.
13:24:40 So I think that whatever we need to go through as far
13:24:43 as the ordinance about what the public is going to do,
13:24:49 we may have to work on.
13:24:51 But I don't see why we can't start today, and even if
13:24:56 it were going to pass just one part of the ordinance,
13:24:59 the part that says we have to start doing that.
13:25:06 I also am glad that you brought that up, David,
13:25:09 because I think that is one of the first things that
13:25:11 we should do, is look at all of the fee structures
13:25:14 that have to do with ways that we can conserve and we
13:25:17 can incentivize through fees, and -- and I don't see
13:25:26 any reason why we can't get started doing that now.
13:25:29 And I don't think we need to do a study to see whether
13:25:32 we can do it.
13:25:34 I wouldn't even call it a study.
13:25:35 I don't know what you call it.
13:25:37 But figure out how we can do those rates, you know.
13:25:45 That's it.
13:25:48 Oh, wait, wait, I want to -- I'm sorry, one more thing
13:25:51 I wanted to say to Charlie, but I think you were
13:25:59 talking to the audience.
13:26:02 But I appreciate you reminding us that we need to do
13:26:05 what we can ourselves.
13:26:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to say we can have a
13:26:10 charter change.
13:26:11 You know how we are looking at the charter at the end
13:26:13 of the month.
13:26:22 I think it's part of that workshop.
13:26:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Why don't we start marching through
13:26:28 and see how much progress we can make?
13:26:30 The first issue, really a core issue, is do we want
13:26:35 this to be codified as an ordinance, or leave it in
13:26:40 the form of something much looser in the form of a
13:26:44 nonbinding resolution?
13:26:46 Linda, and Gwen, Charlie, the three of you have a
13:26:52 total of how many years on council?
13:26:54 50 years, I'll bet, or more total on council.
13:27:03 But I would just say that when you want to do
13:27:07 something meaningful and want it to have a life that
13:27:10 continues on long past all of us are gone, long past
13:27:12 this administration is gone, that you do it in the
13:27:14 form of an ordinance.
13:27:16 You know, sure, we pass resolutions every single time
13:27:19 we meet.
13:27:20 But those resolutions are often about less important
13:27:24 things, and if I asked you today to find a particular
13:27:30 resolution, you don't know where to look.
13:27:33 You have to go to the clerk's office and dig and
13:27:37 everything else.
13:27:38 But there's ordinances codified.
13:27:41 It's the law.
13:27:42 And it's binding.
13:27:44 And we could have David reinforce that.
13:27:46 I feel very strongly that in every opportunity where
13:27:51 we can do something by ordinance, where legal says we
13:27:55 can do these things by ordinance, that we should do
13:27:57 them by ordinance.
13:27:59 Again, that sends a message, symbolism, part of a
13:28:02 message that we are serious about this, that the City
13:28:05 of Tampa thinks that these are important issues.
13:28:07 So that's how I feel about it.
13:28:11 If you want to -- and the administration has expressed
13:28:16 their opinion that they would rather see these in the
13:28:18 form of resolutions for the reasons stated, I'll go
13:28:21 ahead and just move with regard to number one --
13:28:25 >>GWEN MILLER: let me say something.
13:28:27 I think we need to do a resolution, too, because this
13:28:29 morning I can't think of the young lady's name
13:28:32 speaking, she said building -- Byrd?
13:28:36 And she was saying this is something they do anyway.
13:28:39 They don't need an ordinance to tell them what to do.
13:28:42 They are doing it.
13:28:43 And I feel if everybody else is on that same page, if
13:28:47 you have a resolution, they are going to do it.
13:28:49 Because this is something -- if you put an ordinance
13:28:52 in there, and everybody cannot fulfill that ordinance,
13:28:56 what are you going to do?
13:28:58 If someone build affordable homes, like Mr. Rotella
13:29:03 was saying, $600, that house is not going to be
13:29:10 affordable when you finish with it so we still won't
13:29:13 have affordable housing.
13:29:14 Let the people build the green the way they feel fits
13:29:17 their pockets, not put a stipulation on them saying
13:29:20 this is what you are going to do, you have to do it.
13:29:22 People are going to back off and nothing is going to
13:29:24 be done.
13:29:25 I won't do it at all, I just won't build it.
13:29:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me just clarify, Gwen, because
13:29:31 you appreciate what you are saying.
13:29:32 We have made great efforts as the committee and myself
13:29:35 and other whose have been involved in this to not have
13:29:37 mandatory provisions in this at all.
13:29:39 So I would say 95% of this entire 30 pages we are
13:29:45 about to look at is voluntary, it's not mandatory.
13:29:48 The only one that Ron Rotella told us about which is
13:29:52 mandatory is the one about affordable housing.
13:29:55 And the reason that's in there is because the city of
13:29:58 St. Petersburg -- excuse me, Pinellas County, for the
13:30:01 last four years, has had that as a mandatory provision
13:30:04 in there, that all affordable housing in Pinellas
13:30:07 County is energy star, U.S. energy star certified.
13:30:15 But when we get to that particular item, you know, I
13:30:20 heard what Ron said.
13:30:21 I have heard what Cindy Miller is saying.
13:30:25 I this we can soften that a little bit and maybe say
13:30:28 encourage, you know, maybe we can soften that so it
13:30:31 not mandatory.
13:30:32 But in regard to the entire big picture of this, I
13:30:36 think that there's a great opportunity here for us to
13:30:40 do this in the form of an ordinance, and make a
13:30:43 meaningful statement, you know.
13:30:46 So I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath
13:30:49 I think when we get to those particular items we can
13:30:52 tweak them and we can solve them.
13:30:56 >>MARY MULHERN: Since I only went to one of those
13:30:58 meetings where you talked about it, I know there is a
13:31:01 lot of concern and discussion in the building
13:31:05 community about LEED certification, and there were a
13:31:08 lot of people who were questioning the standards for
13:31:14 And correct me if I am wrong if I am wrong about this,
13:31:22 the LEED certification gives you points for things.
13:31:27 So you're not required to do this or this or this.
13:31:31 So there is room to figure it in the budget.
13:31:37 We need to find out about that.
13:31:39 I think this is evolving.
13:31:40 And we have to realize that.
13:31:43 That's just the industry standard.
13:31:45 So there's not really anything else, unless we are
13:31:47 going to, you know, recreate the wheel.
13:31:49 There's no other standard that we can use.
13:31:51 So at this point wave to use that.
13:31:54 And I think, you know, the industry needs to work to
13:31:58 make it more workable and less onerous.
13:32:04 But I heard from people today from people they are
13:32:08 able to do this without it costing more.
13:32:10 And I think Byrd, was that her name?
13:32:14 I think what she was saying is in addition to these
13:32:17 things, this isn't enough, that wave to do education.
13:32:20 And I think as far as Mr. Rotella, we need to figure
13:32:26 out a way to get -- for people to get certified
13:32:29 without having to spend that kind of money.
13:32:31 And I think that's got to be something that we can
13:32:34 answer within the ordinance.
13:32:40 John, you're kind of shocking your head.
13:32:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, I was thinking about a related
13:32:45 issue in response to Ms. Byrd.
13:32:50 Is it Burke or Byrd?
13:32:55 >>> She's the one that said she could build cheaper.
13:32:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I wanted to respond to her.
13:33:01 >> She committed to it and she's a pioneer, and she's
13:33:03 the one who figured out how to do it.
13:33:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But the problem is there's not a
13:33:07 commitment to it because I could ask Thom Snelling,
13:33:10 and I will ask Thom Snelling, to come up to the
13:33:13 microphone and tell us in your best guesstimate how
13:33:15 many residential homes in this city or county even
13:33:20 have been Florida Green Building Coalition certified,
13:33:25 okay, built under those certificates standards in the
13:33:29 city in the last year or two.
13:33:30 >>THOM SNELLING: That I don't know, John.
13:33:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My understanding is there's really
13:33:35 very few.
13:33:36 And the same thing on the commercial side.
13:33:40 On the commercial side, the people are not, you know,
13:33:44 building commercial structures, to LEED certification.
13:33:47 I know one on Kennedy Boulevard.
13:33:48 And I know there's a high-rise that might be built
13:33:51 downtown hopefully by the convention center.
13:33:54 Other than I haven't heard about any others --
13:34:00 Turanchik, he said he's doing -- you know what?
13:34:03 Even Ed, he's building very greenhouses, but I am not
13:34:06 sure that he's gone through the zoning --
13:34:12 >>THOM SNELLING: And to answer your question very
13:34:13 quickly, I don't know how many houses have gone
13:34:17 through any kind of technical certification process in
13:34:19 the City of Tampa.
13:34:20 But Sarasota, I do know that there's been nine.
13:34:24 In over two years, there's been nine that have gone
13:34:27 through that process.
13:34:28 And 9,000 on the rebate.
13:34:35 But the feeling is other people are doing it much like
13:34:38 Cathy Byrd is doing, that they are doing that.
13:34:41 They are doing their best efforts.
13:34:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I think there's a big
13:34:46 Because I think the Florida green building council has
13:34:49 set a high standard. Let's say they set the standard
13:34:51 at 100%, okay?
13:34:53 And then other people, yes, other people might be
13:34:56 getting better air conditioners.
13:34:58 So they go to 50%, you know, or they might be using
13:35:02 less water, so they go to 30%.
13:35:04 But if we encourage people to go up to that high
13:35:09 standard for the Florida green building council
13:35:10 standard -- and it's not mandatory, it's just
13:35:12 incentive to encourage people of that.
13:35:15 In Sarasota they have got nine.
13:35:17 In Tampa maybe over the next year or so we'll have
13:35:19 If we do that, what are we going to spend?
13:35:22 $10,000, $15,000.
13:35:26 It's not a lot of money.
13:35:28 But we can get touch that when we get to that.
13:35:30 We are on point number one, which is do we think this
13:35:33 is important enough to put any of this in an
13:35:36 Or do we just leave it muddling along as a resolution
13:35:39 just like the 30 other resolution that is we passed?
13:35:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda.
13:35:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
13:35:47 I can attest to way think the greenhouses are all
13:35:51 white now but there are three houses that are built,
13:35:54 two of them in the corner of Lois, and Morrison and
13:36:00 one 100 yards south on -- on Lois past Morrison.
13:36:07 And when you look at them, when they first come up,
13:36:09 you think it's an igloo, because they have no windows,
13:36:12 they have nothing but Styrofoam with metal inside two
13:36:18 by fours, all metal, and everything else is metal and
13:36:22 And all of a sudden you keep driving by and see the
13:36:25 figure of something that's going to be cut.
13:36:27 And then the next day you come by they are cut.
13:36:29 Two days later you see the windows now.
13:36:31 Now one of them has a porch from the second floor
13:36:34 coming up.
13:36:34 So I would imagine they are green.
13:36:36 I saw a sign somewhere months ago there that said 58%
13:36:42 reduction in energy efficiency.
13:36:44 In other words, they reduce the cost of energy by 58%.
13:36:48 So I know there's some being built.
13:36:51 Now, whether there will be others, even with the
13:36:54 ordinance, I don't think you can force anybody to
13:36:57 I'm not against the ordinance.
13:36:59 I'm for the ordinance.
13:37:00 But I'll make you one promise.
13:37:02 If I vote for everything that's in here, I'm going to
13:37:05 do the same thing this year because I'm not going to
13:37:07 be a hypocrite.
13:37:08 Whatever I vote for, I'm going to do it in my house.
13:37:11 Or in any rental properties that I may have.
13:37:14 I'm going to do the same thing that I'm asking
13:37:16 somebody to do.
13:37:18 And I'm going to lead the way.
13:37:19 I'm not going to sit back on my heels and wait for
13:37:22 time to erode the good conscience of this community.
13:37:26 So what I'm saying is that I'm going to do this,
13:37:30 everybody else is going to do it, too.
13:37:32 I pledge that to you, all of you.
13:37:34 >>MARY MULHERN: I can't afford it.
13:37:36 >> I won't be doing it.
13:37:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's what I'm saying.
13:37:42 You see, I used to be poor and broke.
13:37:44 Now I'm just poor.
13:37:46 So what I'm saying is it's a thing you have to in your
13:37:51 mind say what benefit are we going to get out of this?
13:37:54 That's how the American economy works.
13:37:56 So I've already changed all the windows.
13:37:59 I'm going to paint the house with some thing called --
13:38:02 what is it called, high-tech something.
13:38:04 It's a ceramic dust on the outside that reduces
13:38:09 So I had the house all inspected by TECO.
13:38:12 They did an excellent job.
13:38:13 I put some insulation up there.
13:38:15 I am going to look into the solar panels to heat the
13:38:17 whole house and cool the house and do everything I
13:38:19 want to do.
13:38:19 And then I am going to go ask somebody for a loan to
13:38:23 pay for all this.
13:38:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I think they should name the ordinance
13:38:28 after you.
13:38:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I'm not trying to be humorous.
13:38:32 It's a very delicate balance that we have to do.
13:38:35 And you have to get it done in a way where people can
13:38:38 continue to live and produce jobs and opportunities,
13:38:44 but at the same time cut down on the cost that is
13:38:47 killing -- I don't know one person that wants to
13:38:49 destroy the earth.
13:38:51 I know many that are trying without knowing it.
13:38:53 So if these things happen, then I think we are in the
13:38:56 right track, and I give credit to Mr. Dingfelder for
13:38:59 presenting the item here.
13:39:03 However, that being said, I don't know what Sarasota
13:39:06 has done.
13:39:06 I don't know what St. Pete has done.
13:39:08 I don't know how many of them were given out.
13:39:10 I don't know what it costs.
13:39:11 I don't know anything.
13:39:12 So I'm not prepared today, because I have got to leave
13:39:16 in a few minutes, to pass my good friend's ordinance,
13:39:22 with or without the agreements with the
13:39:25 What I want to see done is have a cost factor like any
13:39:29 other owner would do, they draw the line.
13:39:33 I don't know if everything I heard this arch is
13:39:35 I don't know if affordable housing -- if it's going to
13:39:38 be heard.
13:39:39 I don't know if it costs us more money or less money
13:39:41 to build green.
13:39:42 Somebody has got to tell me, here's what the materials
13:39:46 tore build a three bedroom, two-bath.
13:39:49 I don't have that information.
13:39:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here's the problem.
13:39:53 We have sort of been spinning our wheels because we
13:39:55 put a proposal on the table.
13:39:56 The administration sort of put a counterproposal on
13:39:59 the table but we can't even get legal to look at it
13:40:01 and to start analyzing it until we can give them some
13:40:07 All I'm trying to do is get some of these issues off
13:40:09 the dime so we can send it to legal, so they can
13:40:12 analyze it, when it comes back from legal, staff can
13:40:15 do that financial analysis that you're talking about
13:40:18 which I think is very important, you know, and we can
13:40:21 then -- there's no ordinance on the table today in
13:40:24 terms of -- I mean, we haven't advertised an
13:40:27 There is no ordinance to a professor not approve
13:40:29 It's just the eight questions, nine questions, to get
13:40:33 these nine issues off the dime.
13:40:36 Do we want to move forward with five out of the nine?
13:40:38 Do when want to move forward with six out of the nine?
13:40:41 Do we want to move forward with zero out of the nine?
13:40:44 But we have to quit spinning our wheels so we can at
13:40:47 least move forward or just forget about the whole
13:40:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Wait, excuse me.
13:40:56 What John is proposing isn't going to make anybody do
13:40:58 It's all incentive based.
13:41:00 This is the preservation magazine, the greenest thing
13:41:03 you can do is keep the house you're in intact.
13:41:05 Mrs. Miller, you don't have to do anything.
13:41:07 You don't have to invest anything.
13:41:11 We are talking about incenting people to make it green
13:41:13 and I would like to start going down the list.
13:41:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to say one other thing.
13:41:20 I think it needs to be an ordinance and I just want to
13:41:22 point out, we have been getting hundreds of e-mails,
13:41:27 letters to the editor, everything has been positive.
13:41:30 I haven't heard one thing -- and I have been hearing
13:41:33 for years from my husband who works with developers
13:41:37 all the time.
13:41:39 They want it.
13:41:41 And we are not hearing from builders or developers,
13:41:44 anyone in the community other than specific problems
13:41:46 like Mr. Rotella brought up that we can help solve by
13:41:50 doing this.
13:41:51 So I think that it has to be an ordinance.
13:41:59 I vote yes on this.
13:42:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think David is encouraging us to
13:42:04 vote point by point so he has direction as to how do
13:42:06 we proceed.
13:42:10 And Linda, I don't know where you're at.
13:42:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My question is, in order to move this
13:42:16 forward we have to give the city attorney direction,
13:42:18 Now I agree with Charlie.
13:42:20 I need to know what is going to be the impact
13:42:23 financially, before you start talking about 50,000,
13:42:26 5,000, I need to know that.
13:42:29 And then I need to know the implications of affordable
13:42:32 Because that's an element as well.
13:42:36 Because you do have mandatory, old issues coming in to
13:42:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And what I said in response to
13:42:46 that, Tom, was I did hear what Cindy Miller had said,
13:42:50 I did hear what Ron Rotella said.
13:42:53 We can soften those on a provision by provision basis.
13:42:56 Some people suggest that we should do it mandatory, so
13:42:59 affordable housing gets built in the most energy
13:43:01 efficient and water efficient way because then the
13:43:03 people who live there in future years have the lower
13:43:05 electric and water bills.
13:43:06 But we don't want to do it mandatory.
13:43:08 Maybe we can just put some shade language in there,
13:43:12 best practice language in there and that sort of
13:43:14 But the first question on the table -- on the floor
13:43:17 is, do we want to do any of this in the form of an
13:43:21 Or do we want to just do it as a nonbinding
13:43:25 Before you came in, Tom, and David, I don't want to
13:43:28 put words in your mouth, what's the difference if we
13:43:30 do something by ordinance or by resolution?
13:43:33 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
13:43:34 The comment I made before Reverend Scott got in here
13:43:37 is that we have not done a complete analysis, but what
13:43:41 we have analyzed, there are some of the things that
13:43:43 are contemplated that can be done by ordinance.
13:43:45 There are some of the things contemplated that cannot
13:43:47 be done by ordinance and should be done by resolution.
13:43:49 And there are some things that possibly we cannot do.
13:43:53 Now, I think you can accomplish a lot of your
13:43:59 Particularly most of the things dealing with green
13:44:01 It's when you get a little afield of that.
13:44:03 And let me provide a little comment for the eight or
13:44:06 nine topics.
13:44:07 That the councilman is referring to.
13:44:09 That might help a little bit.
13:44:10 I think the second one is an issue you can do by
13:44:14 The complication now, however, is if you incorporate a
13:44:17 certification program in an ordinance, when that
13:44:21 certification program is amended, you must amend your
13:44:24 You cannot delegate, in essence, your legislative
13:44:27 authority and allow someone to change their standards.
13:44:29 So you have to update it which you can do.
13:44:32 You just have to update it meaning that it will be
13:44:34 LEED certified as of January 1, 2008, whatever it is
13:44:37 you do.
13:44:38 The second one dealing with the dollar amounts, I
13:44:41 think you can conceptually get there.
13:44:43 We need to make sure there aren't any bond covenant
13:44:45 problems and things of that nature.
13:44:47 The third one, I'm not real sure about, but I think
13:44:52 understood your incentives you can.
13:44:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If you go back to the dollar amount
13:44:56 what impact would that have on the current budget?
13:44:58 >> Well, that's the other issue, which I can't
13:45:02 I'm just talking about what your structural --
13:45:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, we should wait till we get
13:45:08 But what you didn't get, Tom Scott, Thom Snelling,
13:45:14 Sarasota who has the same ordinance, nothing new in
13:45:17 here, plagiarize for everybody, because Sarasota has
13:45:20 $50,000 as a cap.
13:45:22 That's what this is a S, is a cap, and that's why I
13:45:25 put in the there so we know what our maximum exposure
13:45:28 is to the budget.
13:45:29 But Thom stood up and said so far last year only
13:45:33 nine -- Sarasota spent $9,000 on this, because they
13:45:37 only had maybe nine builders or nine homes or
13:45:39 whatever, I don't know exactly what it is, but that
13:45:42 they spent 9,000 out of the 50,000.
13:45:45 So look at the things we approve week in and week out.
13:45:50 We are a $700 million city.
13:45:51 If we put a $50,000 cap on it and we budget for it as
13:45:56 of next year's budget, then we could do this.
13:45:58 But let's start with number one.
13:46:03 >>GWEN MILLER: If we are going to give him direction
13:46:06 where to go --
13:46:09 >>> my only concerns are 4, 6, 7 and 8.
13:46:12 If you look at those provisions, 4 deals with
13:46:14 requiring LEED certification on City of Tampa
13:46:17 I'm not saying you can't.
13:46:18 I'm concerned, however, with some of the charter
13:46:21 provisions that seem to vest the main responsibility
13:46:25 for city property solely in the mayor.
13:46:27 That may be -- and again this is a maybe because we
13:46:29 haven't analyzed this -- that you are best dealing
13:46:32 with that in resolution.
13:46:33 But we can look at that issue.
13:46:35 But I just want to let you know I have a concern.
13:46:37 On number 6, the rebate of the percentage of the
13:46:39 stormwater fee, we need to do the analysis on that,
13:46:45 and perhaps we can get there.
13:46:46 Number seven, however, is a problem because it depends
13:46:49 on how you want to accomplish it.
13:46:51 The annual reduction of 3% gasoline consumption for
13:46:53 city vehicles, again there's an administrative issue
13:46:57 and there's a purchasing department issue.
13:46:59 The charter legally has a separate provision for the
13:47:01 purchasing department.
13:47:02 I'm not saying we can't do it.
13:47:04 I'm telling you I'm not sure you can.
13:47:06 That's all I'm saying.
13:47:07 And number 8, than the creation after new office.
13:47:10 Section 6.8 of the charter contemplates a specific
13:47:13 process for that.
13:47:14 So there may be ways to get there.
13:47:16 I'm just indicating I have got some concerns.
13:47:17 We haven't had a chance to vet yet.
13:47:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Smith saying all these concerns,
13:47:22 and we need to give him direction.
13:47:24 Why do we need to do the ordinance today?
13:47:27 We get those things ironed out.
13:47:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have to give direction --
13:47:32 >>MARY MULHERN: Excuse me.
13:47:34 I think I have been waiting to speak.
13:47:36 What we are talking about on number 1 is if we want to
13:47:39 draft an ordinance, not what's going to be in the
13:47:41 I think we decided we need an ordinance.
13:47:43 I think we can go on to number 2.
13:47:45 And I hope Mr. Smith can stay for the rest of the
13:47:48 meeting and we can talk about each individually.
13:47:52 But I would like to make a motion that we agree that
13:47:54 we are going to ask legal to begin to draft language
13:48:02 for a green building ordinance.
13:48:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm going to second that for
13:48:07 Thank you.
13:48:08 As you know I have to leave like as soon as I finish
13:48:10 But because I certificated the motion going to vote
13:48:14 for this motion doesn't necessarily mean I am going to
13:48:16 support the ordinance coming back, depends how it's
13:48:18 written and what form it's written.
13:48:20 I can understand what the wording is or what it means
13:48:22 to all of us.
13:48:23 So with that I would like to take a vote on this on
13:48:26 item number 1 so I can exit and be back and I would
13:48:29 like to ask the council if they are going to do
13:48:32 another vote to let me at least tonight or whatever,
13:48:36 to bring this back so I can have a vote.
13:48:37 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a lot of votes.
13:48:45 We have a lot of things to vote on.
13:48:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: With that We vote on what we have
13:48:49 on the table?
13:48:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A question to councilman Dingfelder.
13:48:54 If we go ahead and vote on number one so the city
13:48:57 attorney then has direction, is it possible that he
13:48:59 can he can take these other items and begin to do
13:49:02 analysis without us having to take a vote today?
13:49:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have to go down --
13:49:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I understand Mr. Miranda wanted to be
13:49:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I could just chime in just for a
13:49:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby is talking.
13:49:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if I can, and no offense to
13:49:25 the maker of the motion but when you frame it as a
13:49:27 green building ordinance there are certain limitations
13:49:30 there, and I believe what Mr. Dingfelder has proposed
13:49:34 goes beyond a green building, perhaps sustainability
13:49:36 or whatever.
13:49:39 There are a lot of implications in what council is
13:49:41 requesting that needs to be explored and fully vetted
13:49:45 and it takes a lot of effort.
13:49:48 The devil is in the details, as they say.
13:49:50 Conceptually, if you wish to give the administration,
13:49:54 the legal department, direction as to where this City
13:49:57 Council wants to go and it does it in the form of a
13:50:00 motion, then that would be -- that would be my advice,
13:50:04 so that the legal department is clear as to what the
13:50:07 direction of the consensus of council is by motion and
13:50:11 vote, and that they, for instance, I guess Mr. Smith
13:50:14 said, some things he believes can be done by
13:50:17 I believe it's a sense of council that if it can be
13:50:20 done by ordinance it should be done by ordinance, and
13:50:22 then -- but I just wanted to be clear that when you
13:50:26 give direction to the legal department, they are going
13:50:29 to be very specific as to --
13:50:33 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
13:50:34 Can I -- can I --
13:50:37 >> I'm sorry.
13:50:37 >>MARY MULHERN: Can I restate this more vaguely?
13:50:40 [ Laughter ]
13:50:42 The City Council would like to codify a green building
13:50:57 I have a motion.
13:50:58 Is that it?
13:50:59 Is that good enough?
13:51:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
13:51:01 >>MARY MULHERN: It doesn't -- why don't you say it?
13:51:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: How about this?
13:51:09 Your motion I think is a contingent motion.
13:51:11 I think it's basically that this council would direct
13:51:14 legal staff to start working on drafting an ordinance,
13:51:18 wherever we can do an ordinance under the charter for
13:51:21 these issues, and that you would draft a comparable
13:51:25 resolution on the items that we agree on.
13:51:29 We haven't agreed on any of them yet substantively but
13:51:34 when we disagree on agree on these next eight or nine
13:51:38 items, we are directing legal staff to do it, unless
13:51:42 legal staff determines that they can't do this
13:51:44 ordinance, then they'll come back in the form of a
13:51:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
13:51:48 >>MARY MULHERN: Is that okay?
13:51:52 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
13:51:53 The only thing I would correct is with the legal
13:51:55 department, not the administration.
13:51:58 I'm really working hard to make sure we keep that
13:52:00 distinction clear.
13:52:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My motion -- second.
13:52:12 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye.
13:52:14 Opposed, Nay.
13:52:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
13:52:17 Now we can get into the meat of it.
13:52:19 We can get into the substantive part of it and it
13:52:21 doesn't mean we are passing anything today but again
13:52:23 it means we are directing legal to sort of continue to
13:52:26 explore this issue.
13:52:28 And this issue is specifically, do we want to create a
13:52:31 partial refund of permit fees to builders and owners
13:52:35 of a private structure if lead, that's commercial, or
13:52:37 Florida green building council certified, FGBC,
13:52:43 relates to the residential.
13:52:44 The bottom line on this one is that, you know, a lot
13:52:49 of these other things are just sort of what we are
13:52:51 going to do in-house.
13:52:52 I don't think that's very controversial.
13:52:54 I think the question on number two is, do we, as a
13:52:57 city, want to effect policy, with a little bit of
13:53:03 money attached, that's 2-A, we can start two with a
13:53:09 basic question.
13:53:10 Do we want to try to incent the private developers and
13:53:13 owners to build LEED certified and Florida green
13:53:19 building certified?
13:53:20 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
13:53:21 My question is, are you tied to those organizations,
13:53:26 or would it be sufficient if the standards that those
13:53:29 organizations stand for are incorporated in the
13:53:33 requirements, and when those requirements are met,
13:53:36 certain benefits, incentives -- I just want to make
13:53:40 sure I'm understanding whether these organizations are
13:53:43 an important part of it.
13:53:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, from my perspective I think
13:53:48 it is important to have these organizations.
13:53:50 They are well established.
13:53:52 They have been around for a number of years.
13:53:55 They are changing.
13:53:56 So right now, it might be LEED, what do they call it,
13:54:02 LEED number, or whatever, and next year when they make
13:54:06 it better they will be LEED number 8.
13:54:09 So however we can work that in, David, you know, I
13:54:12 think we can.
13:54:13 I have seen some ordinances that say -- or this one
13:54:17 even says the most current, you know, LEED standard.
13:54:20 I don't know if you have to be more specific than
13:54:24 >>> The only issue would be if --
13:54:28 >> You can come back to us with that.
13:54:30 >>> But we can look at that.
13:54:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think it's extremely important
13:54:33 and we had Peter and numerous other people stand in
13:54:35 front of us tell us why the LEED program is important,
13:54:39 why the Florida green building council program is
13:54:41 important, why it's important to achieve that 100%
13:54:45 standard as opposed to just saying best efforts and
13:54:49 going halfway.
13:54:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me.
13:54:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Last Friday I went to my third
13:55:08 sustainability conference where all other Florida
13:55:11 progressive cities committed to this.
13:55:13 This is purely incentive based and I think we should
13:55:16 do it.
13:55:16 It's the common standard.
13:55:17 At this time way to go.
13:55:18 This is not something we are mandating. This is
13:55:21 something we are offering a carrot, it's the way
13:55:29 people do this professionally.
13:55:31 >> That's what I was going to say.
13:55:32 It's the industry standard.
13:55:35 >> Sort of a two-part answer to that.
13:55:38 I do agree using Florida Green Building Coalition.
13:55:41 When it comes to -- we have been talking about
13:55:44 And I just want to make sure that you have the latest
13:55:46 information that we obtained the last few days.
13:55:48 Sarasota, their resolution has either been terminated
13:55:51 or expired.
13:55:52 They in a longer offer the incentive, because of
13:55:56 amendment one and other concerns.
13:55:57 They no longer are making these incentives available
13:56:00 in Sarasota.
13:56:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
13:56:03 How about St. Petersburg?
13:56:05 >>CINDY MILLER: I don't know about St. Petersburg.
13:56:06 But Sarasota is the one that's an example.
13:56:10 I have not checked with St. Petersburg.
13:56:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We have a tight budget.
13:56:17 But let's not fool ourselves.
13:56:19 I mean, this is a $700 million operation.
13:56:23 If we don't think this is important enough to risk
13:56:25 $50,000 a year, then we shouldn't even be wasting our
13:56:29 time, in my opinion.
13:56:34 >> It could save somebody's job.
13:56:36 >>> Yes.
13:56:37 >>GWEN MILLER: And we talked about laying off person.
13:56:39 >>> Right.
13:56:40 And there's a $15 million pot that could save 300 jobs
13:56:44 but nobody is willing to talk about that either.
13:56:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Did.
13:56:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can we call the question on number
13:56:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm just talking about a cap, as a
13:56:55 If we find we don't have the T money then we come back
13:56:59 and -- if we found out that we can't leave $50,000 in
13:57:04 here to fund this, then we can't find it in the
13:57:07 budget, then fine, we'll come back and modify.
13:57:09 But the community -- and I have got 30 e-mails here
13:57:12 from just the last two days.
13:57:14 The business community, the building community,
13:57:17 architect, engineers, 30 people signed the signature,
13:57:22 a sweet little lady last night I ran into at Sierra
13:57:25 Club, she told me to give her name.
13:57:28 I mean, people are all about this and you have to
13:57:31 offer reasonable incentives to get it going.
13:57:32 It like jump starting that engine.
13:57:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Am I understanding you total 50,000 or
13:57:40 50,000 residential, 50,000 for commercial?
13:57:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right now 50,000 residential,
13:57:45 50,000 commercial.
13:57:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So that's $100,000.
13:57:50 >> It's 100,000 total risk and we can tweak that as we
13:57:53 come back.
13:57:54 And we can tweak it as we come back.
13:57:56 We are going through budget discussions over the next
13:58:00 couple of months.
13:58:00 If you think it's too much money, you know, we can
13:58:04 tweak it back.
13:58:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Somebody's job.
13:58:07 And we are talking about laying off the people.
13:58:14 You know, that could be three jobs.
13:58:16 Some people could still be working.
13:58:21 >>MARY MULHERN: I think Mr. Miranda and Mr. Scott
13:58:23 asked -- we need to get some numbers on this.
13:58:25 So I think as Mr. Dingfelder said, we can come back to
13:58:28 The other thing is, as we are figuring these rates, we
13:58:32 are going to change -- to me it makes a lot of sense.
13:58:36 And you're changing the fee.
13:58:41 So that you're paying for the energy or the water you
13:58:44 are using.
13:58:45 So we need to make a disincentive.
13:58:49 We are going to end up raising some fees slightly, and
13:58:54 lowering the fees for the people who are doing green
13:58:59 Am I right?
13:59:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Arguably.
13:59:02 >> One way that we can generate some of this.
13:59:08 >> I think it makes the most sense to do that.
13:59:10 It may take awhile to figure out how to do it.
13:59:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think -- what we are asking today
13:59:17 is for them to write things up.
13:59:20 We can figure out the mechanism for reimbursing that
13:59:22 money later.
13:59:22 But my idea would be to raise everybody else's fees
13:59:26 slightly with the idea if you do this that you have
13:59:29 the financial incentive.
13:59:31 It is in the best interest of the entire community for
13:59:34 people to build green.
13:59:36 >>DAVID SMITH: If I could suggest something.
13:59:38 Why don't we use, for purposes of drafting, a blank,
13:59:43 the administration can come back to you with the
13:59:44 information you are requesting in terms of the cost
13:59:46 benefit and then you determine as a body what that
13:59:49 number is.
13:59:50 That way we don't really need to make that decision
13:59:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Not a blank but a question mark.
13:59:57 >>> All right, a question mark.
14:00:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think that's a great idea, David.
14:00:02 If you go to page 5, instead of talking about 50,000
14:00:06 commercial and 50,000 residential and 5,000 for a
14:00:11 developer could you leave it blank with a question
14:00:13 mark and we could fill that in.
14:00:15 At least if we move this along and direct legal to
14:00:18 consider whether or not this provision is legal and
14:00:20 tweak it up, then that way, in a month or two from now
14:00:24 when we can finalize it, if it doesn't have the votes,
14:00:27 it won't have the votes. If we don't have the money,
14:00:31 we will check out the whole thing.
14:00:33 >>DAVID SMITH: I hate to be intrusive but I think it
14:00:36 fits with what you do as a body.
14:00:38 Other cities have a provision in there that indicates
14:00:40 it will be a number in your budget each year.
14:00:43 So it will be literally determined by this body as
14:00:46 part of the budget review process, and it will be
14:00:49 revisited each year.
14:00:51 That might be the better way to do it because that
14:00:53 fits with what the charter contemplates how you handle
14:00:55 the budget.
14:00:58 I'll put that in as an alternative.
14:01:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I like that as a compromise. That
14:01:03 accomplishes 2 and 2-A.
14:01:05 I'll make a motion accordingly.
14:01:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:01:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
14:01:08 (Motion carried).
14:01:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The next one, City Council create
14:01:15 incentive by creating -- this has to do with
14:01:19 expediting -- again we are talking about incentives.
14:01:23 And a lot of the developers and builders and engineers
14:01:27 said help us get through the entire city process
14:01:31 Now, Thom and Cindy have come in front of us and said
14:01:35 they are going really fast right now in the
14:01:36 development services center, especially with the
14:01:41 market down a little bit and they are going as fast as
14:01:43 they can.
14:01:44 That's fine.
14:01:46 What I suggested on number 3 is that one way that
14:01:50 council could help a developer get through zoning
14:01:53 faster is rate now we have X number of slots -- how
14:01:59 many slots on a Thursday night?
14:02:01 13 slots. If we created a 14th slot for a green
14:02:04 project, okay, and frankly, if we are not doing this
14:02:08 we could do it for affordable housing.
14:02:10 We should.
14:02:10 But we create a blank slot there in our procedures,
14:02:17 then that way anybody who has a green project would
14:02:19 come in, show us some indication that it's going to be
14:02:23 a green project, and work we can work out those
14:02:25 details, and then we would give them that also bonus
14:02:28 That way they don't have to wait two or three months
14:02:30 to get onto our calendar.
14:02:32 The same thing for comp plan amendments.
14:02:34 I know to a certain extent that's controlled by the
14:02:38 Planning Commission.
14:02:39 But when it comes back to us, again, we give them
14:02:43 And if we created a green slot for that, that would be
14:02:47 And then the other part of this would be we could
14:02:50 include that when they come in, if there's any kind of
14:02:53 bag log at the city departments, that they would jump
14:02:56 to the front of the line just like affordable housing
14:02:58 does today.
14:02:59 That they would jump to the front of the line.
14:03:01 That might buy them a day or two, maybe a week or
14:03:07 >>GWEN MILLER: What kind of incentives?
14:03:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The slot itself is the incentive.
14:03:14 >> Like a bonus or something?
14:03:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A slot.
14:03:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Give them a bonus or something?
14:03:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No.
14:03:21 Not at all.
14:03:22 It just means the minute they come in and they have
14:03:24 all their ducks in a row with Cathy Coyle, instead of
14:03:30 saying we'll fit knew in June, if they say we are
14:03:32 ready to go, and we say, well, the next possibility
14:03:35 might be April.
14:03:36 So we can give them that slot and squeeze them in and
14:03:39 we'll stay an extra 15 minutes that night because of
14:03:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess my question is to Mrs. Miller.
14:03:50 How does this affect affordable housing?
14:03:54 >>CINDY MILLER: This particular aspect, councilman
14:03:56 Scott, would not affect affordable housing.
14:03:58 What we would be doing, we already have a requirement
14:04:01 that we commit to the federal and the state level,
14:04:03 that we will have affordable housing, we'll give
14:04:07 priority to permitting and zoning.
14:04:09 We basically give green projects the same kind of
14:04:13 So we don't expect -- we would hope that we wouldn't
14:04:16 have to worry about competition between those two.
14:04:18 We would basically be giving them the same type of
14:04:22 So the rules would be the same.
14:04:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
14:04:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So I think it doesn't cost us
14:04:28 anything, it's a good idea, it's a nice message to the
14:04:31 community that the green building is important.
14:04:33 So I'll move number 3.
14:04:36 >> Second.
14:04:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
14:04:37 (Motion carried).
14:04:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All right.
14:04:42 Now the next one, number 4, the only differing between
14:04:51 our position and the city administration's position,
14:04:53 the administration's position and we are on the same
14:04:55 page in regard to LEED silver.
14:04:57 Administration indicates that they are committed for
14:05:00 new construction to build LEED silver.
14:05:02 The only issue that we seem to differ a letter bit is
14:05:06 on renovation.
14:05:07 And I would say that we should commit -- and there's a
14:05:12 LEED program for renovations as well, commercial
14:05:14 renovations, which is what the city does.
14:05:17 I would say that when should committee the LEED solar
14:05:20 on reign ovation.
14:05:21 One of the conditions is that we tend to renovate at
14:05:24 least from my experience, I think we tend to renovate
14:05:27 at least as much or more as we build new, which is a
14:05:31 good thing in itself.
14:05:32 For example, that project over there on Columbus, you
14:05:34 know, that's one of the biggest construction projects
14:05:39 that we have done in the last year or two, and that's
14:05:41 a major renovation for several million dollars, under
14:05:47 this program that I'm suggesting, that would be a LEED
14:05:51 silver project.
14:05:53 But as it is right now, I know that David Vaughan and
14:05:56 the rest of them have assured us it's a very green
14:05:59 project but it's not really certified.
14:06:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I was just going to say, this is what
14:06:08 I am talking about as the one thing we absolutely have
14:06:10 to do, and what Charlie was talking about, is setting
14:06:13 an example, and I just would like to point out that
14:06:16 especially for the renovation, these are existing
14:06:21 buildings and that's going to pay for itself.
14:06:23 You are going to save energy, and these are going to
14:06:28 be city buildings probably for a really long time.
14:06:30 So if it takes, you know, six years to make the money
14:06:34 back in the energy savings costs it will take six
14:06:39 years, but we will make the money back and then we
14:06:41 will be adding money bin not having to pay those extra
14:06:44 energy costs.
14:06:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Smith, I know that you pointed
14:06:50 out -- don't could you please up, just listen.
14:06:56 This is one of the things where council doesn't have a
14:07:00 direct ability to direct the administration.
14:07:02 However, what we can do is say as a policy we will not
14:07:04 spend any money on any city renovations that aren't
14:07:07 silver, and every time a contract comes to us under
14:07:10 our consent agenda, we will require that there be an
14:07:15 indication that it's certified LEED silver.
14:07:19 And that is the mechanism that I think we can
14:07:21 accomplish this and I think it's something we
14:07:23 definitely -- I agree with you wholeheartedly would
14:07:26 solve this.
14:07:26 >>MARY MULHERN: And you can do it as a resolution.
14:07:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We can do it as a resolution.
14:07:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If we can't do it as an ordinance.
14:07:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And I am appalled that we don't
14:07:37 already do this.
14:07:38 But the time line you gave us shows this starting like
14:07:42 in middle of '09.
14:07:43 That isn't soon enough.
14:07:44 >>CINDY MILLER: If I may, the concern on renovations,
14:07:48 let me use an example from my standpoint.
14:07:50 Because it's simplified from form my own opinion.
14:07:56 If looking at, let's say, recarpeting --
14:07:59 >> We are talking about a minimum of, I think,
14:08:03 >>CINDY MILLER: Let me go through the example.
14:08:04 Say we are going to recarpet the municipal office
14:08:07 building across the way.
14:08:08 I think it would be great that we put the type of
14:08:10 requirement that wave to look at recycled materials,
14:08:14 we have to look at green types of situations with
14:08:18 However, my concern is whether that would be
14:08:20 interpreted that that means that building has to
14:08:22 become a LEED silver certified building by having to
14:08:26 replace windows, make changes in air conditioning at
14:08:28 the same time.
14:08:30 If what we are talking about is only for that portion
14:08:32 of the renovation, I just want to make sure we are not
14:08:37 having to expand the scope of the particular
14:08:39 renovation beyond replacing the carpeting, not having
14:08:42 to go to say we have to replace the air conditioning.
14:08:44 But that's why the suggestion I made when I had
14:08:48 presented our suggested ordinance resolution was that
14:08:52 we look at recyclable, we look at other green friendly
14:08:59 material, for that portion of the renovation we are
14:09:02 Because we may not be renovating the entire building,
14:09:05 just aspects of it.
14:09:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm glad you pointed that out.
14:09:10 Could we use the Florida green building standards for
14:09:17 Well, whatever they say for those individual
14:09:21 categories, what you need to do for windows, what you
14:09:24 need to do --
14:09:26 >>CINDY MILLER: The suggestion had been there.
14:09:28 >>> I wanted to make sure we didn't have to expand the
14:09:32 project to be broader because when it says silver LEED
14:09:35 certification may entail a lot more work than what is
14:09:38 basically being replaced.
14:09:39 That's why I had a slight difference there.
14:09:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me toss up.
14:09:44 Everybody look it a page 9.
14:09:48 Page 9, item little "B" at the top of the page, I put
14:09:52 in an out provision.
14:09:53 In other words, the basic provision says that all new
14:09:57 construction, renovation over 5,000 square feet of air
14:10:00 conditioned space will be U.S. silver LEED standard,
14:10:08 and if the determination determines it's not feasible
14:10:10 to do this, okay, then basically there's a process
14:10:13 that follows.
14:10:14 Now maybe we can tweak that process.
14:10:17 But what you have done there is I have created an out
14:10:20 for exactly the situation that was just described.
14:10:22 So, in other words, in this case, I said, the
14:10:25 administration comes back to us, we hold public
14:10:28 hearing, discuss it, and council can accept or deny
14:10:33 the administration's determination, that they can't do
14:10:37 it on that particular thing.
14:10:39 I thought about some of the historic buildings that
14:10:41 the city is rehabilitating.
14:10:43 For example, the courthouse.
14:10:45 You know, the historic aspect of it might overwhelm
14:10:50 the greenish you.
14:10:51 So if and whenever we get around to doing the federal
14:10:54 courthouse, which we now own, we might not be able to.
14:10:57 So the administration could come back to us and say
14:10:59 exactly that.
14:11:01 Then you would say, we can't do it because of historic
14:11:04 res renovation standards, et cetera, we are asking you
14:11:07 to waive this requirement.
14:11:08 And that's sort of how that provision works.
14:11:11 I hate to just on a blanket level, you know, let us
14:11:16 all off the hook on renovations and not include
14:11:18 renovation as part of the mandate.
14:11:21 >>MARY MULHERN: We are not letting you to have hook --
14:11:27 them off the hook.
14:11:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Us off the hook.
14:11:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Us off the hook.
14:11:32 Because they are going to follow whatever part of that
14:11:34 green building standard is, which I think is better
14:11:38 than, you know, having to go through this onerous
14:11:42 process. If it is a historic or special case, can't
14:11:47 we just make an exception?
14:11:51 Do we have to go through the whole public hearing
14:11:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My point is, if you don't put us in
14:11:58 that loop, then how do you know what -- I'm not
14:12:02 talking about this administration.
14:12:03 How does council, future council know what any
14:12:06 administration is doing when they make those
14:12:08 You know what I'm talking about.
14:12:10 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
14:12:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Because you are going to say if you
14:12:15 don't think you can do the renovation -- then come
14:12:19 back to us, tell us why, and chances are we'll look at
14:12:21 it and agree with them, I mean, I think.
14:12:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The only question I raise, does the
14:12:28 charter allow us to micromanage those?
14:12:31 That's what we have to be careful of.
14:12:33 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
14:12:34 I really didn't want to go through each provision
14:12:36 because I understand from the first motion to the
14:12:38 extent you can do so legally, you want to maximize the
14:12:42 scope and the effect of the ordinance.
14:12:44 We will evaluate that.
14:12:46 I'm concerned there's some separation of power issues.
14:12:48 But there may be a way, you know.
14:12:51 >>MARY MULHERN: But we want you to listen to us before
14:12:54 you go back and do that.
14:12:55 >>DAVID SMITH: Absolutely.
14:12:57 I'm doing the best I can to discern what would you
14:13:00 like to see occur and to the maximum extent possible
14:13:02 try to effectuate that.
14:13:03 >>MARY MULHERN: John, can I ask you a question?
14:13:06 Wait, wait, can I ask you a question?
14:13:09 Do the other green building ordinances -- I know they
14:13:13 They have this --
14:13:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The federal government and state
14:13:18 government are now committed to doing new and
14:13:20 renovations at least silver standard.
14:13:23 >>MARY MULHERN: Is this the kind of language they use?
14:13:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, because they are set up
14:13:30 >>MARY MULHERN: What about cities?
14:13:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm not sure.
14:13:37 I would ask David to look at that.
14:13:38 >>MARY MULHERN: That's what we need to do.
14:13:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Come back on that one.
14:13:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All right.
14:13:44 Do a motion in this form.
14:13:46 To the extent that legal can craft something -- and it
14:13:48 might be an ordinance and it might be a resolution,
14:13:50 the preference would be an ordinance.
14:13:52 To the extent legal can draft something, that it would
14:13:55 require new and renovated city structures, certain
14:14:01 I have 5,000 square feet, to meet LEED silver
14:14:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:14:06 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
14:14:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Question on the motion.
14:14:11 Here again, my question is, what is Sarasota doing.
14:14:19 >>CINDY MILLER: I don't know what they are doing on
14:14:21 I do know on new construction no disagreement.
14:14:23 Silver LEED is the goal.
14:14:26 For renovations, I don't know the answer for sure.
14:14:28 I don't want ton misquote either direction.
14:14:33 >>GWEN MILLER: If Mr. Smith comes back and says we
14:14:35 can't do a motion --
14:14:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Then we'll tweak it up again.
14:14:39 And I will tell you that.
14:14:40 I am never going to second guess David, too much.
14:14:45 [ Laughter ]
14:14:47 Or not in public anyway.
14:14:52 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:14:57 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
14:15:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The next one gets into a little
14:15:03 more detail, page 10 in the attached.
14:15:11 Our current landscaping ordinance says, is the part
14:15:13 that's not underlined.
14:15:15 It just basically says we want to promote water
14:15:20 We do that.
14:15:21 Right now we do it.
14:15:22 And we say a maximum of 50% of the green space in a
14:15:27 yard may be planted with turf grass, and that's all in
14:15:31 our current ordinance.
14:15:32 I don't want anybody to think I'm creating this from
14:15:36 >>GWEN MILLER: You're sure?
14:15:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, I'm sure.
14:15:38 I copied it right out of the code.
14:15:40 But what I've done is to change reduce this.
14:15:50 Right now it says 50% of glass can be changed to turf
14:15:54 grass and what I'm suggesting over the next five-year
14:15:56 period for the purposes of reducing the consumption of
14:16:00 potable water on yards, to reduce it down to 25%
14:16:04 maximum for new construction only.
14:16:08 And again, this is not passing this today by any
14:16:13 This is just sort of getting it off the dime, sending
14:16:16 it to legal, see what they think about this reduction,
14:16:19 5% per year, letting them come back, and then we'll
14:16:22 have a public hearing on that issue, and I'm sure
14:16:24 we'll hear from many constituents on it on both sides
14:16:27 of it.
14:16:27 I'm sure the turf grass industry is going to come in
14:16:30 and say this isn't fair, and this and that, et cetera,
14:16:33 et cetera.
14:16:33 But I think that Charlie reports to us every week
14:16:36 about, you know, how our water crisis -- and I think
14:16:40 we need to start doing things more aggressively to
14:16:42 address the water crisis, especially when it comes to
14:16:45 new homes.
14:16:46 New homes is where we have an opportunity.
14:16:48 Existing homes, I am not going to go out and tell
14:16:50 people what to do with their existing yards but on new
14:16:53 homes, let's get them doing it right to start with.
14:16:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:16:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion 'n and second.
14:17:00 All in favor say Aye.
14:17:02 Opposed, Nay.
14:17:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All right.
14:17:05 Number 6 is very complicated.
14:17:07 Ed Turanchik -- excuse me, number of is not the one
14:17:12 I'm talking about.
14:17:13 Number 6 is stormwater.
14:17:14 And this too could be complicated.
14:17:16 I know staff had some issues about it.
14:17:20 You know, in terms of it.
14:17:21 But the only thing I would like to do on six is I
14:17:23 would just like to ask staff to get back to us, you
14:17:26 know, in the in six months, 12 months or 18 months,
14:17:30 but to get back to us, you know, in a month or so, or
14:17:35 maybe two months, and tell us, is there something we
14:17:38 can do along the lines of what number 6, the intent of
14:17:42 number 6?
14:17:43 And the intent of number 6 basically is to create
14:17:45 incentives for people to put impervious surfaces, when
14:17:49 they are building new driveways and new sidewalks, new
14:17:52 parking areas, new pool decks, what type of incentives
14:17:55 can we create, in our code, and specifically in our
14:17:59 stormwater fee, that would encourage people to put in
14:18:02 the types of surfaces?
14:18:04 You know, right now it might be cheaper to pour
14:18:07 concrete than to put in turf block or these other
14:18:10 types of surfaces.
14:18:11 But if we can give people incentive in the reduction
14:18:14 of stormwater fee to do that, then we should.
14:18:19 Then we should.
14:18:19 Because then we'll have less run-off and our
14:18:21 stormwater system will be, you know, less impacted.
14:18:26 That's my thought.
14:18:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:18:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So the motion is softened.
14:18:32 It's not in any way shape or form to move forward with
14:18:35 this thing on page 11, 21-124.
14:18:39 The motion is to ask staff -- legal staff and more
14:18:42 importantly Walter to get back with us.
14:18:46 How many days?
14:18:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 30.
14:18:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 30 days to give us a report on what
14:18:51 we can do to incent ton our stormwater.
14:18:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I guess this is a question on the
14:19:00 This is a big example of where I was talking about the
14:19:03 fees being, you know, based on the amount of usage.
14:19:10 So I want him then to look at that.
14:19:15 >>GWEN MILLER: And for staff to say they have a
14:19:17 problem with fees reduction.
14:19:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you have any objection to the
14:19:23 motion that I just made?
14:19:25 >>CINDY MILLER: No, because the stormwater department
14:19:28 is going to have to identify the information that you
14:19:32 have asked for.
14:19:32 I know there's a concern to the way it's written now
14:19:36 about but certainly coming back in 30 days to take a
14:19:39 look at it is fine.
14:19:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, you are speaking for the
14:19:43 administration today so we assume you are going to
14:19:45 speak for chuck.
14:19:46 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry.
14:19:49 We actually set the fees, right?
14:19:52 We vote on the stormwater?
14:19:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: As part of the stormwater
14:19:56 ordinance, impact fee included.
14:19:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I also believe this was
14:20:01 also -- there are certain improvements that are
14:20:04 related to bonds related to these sort of fees?
14:20:09 >>CINDY MILLER: This particular item, the concern was
14:20:11 that the stormwater fee is an ongoing fee into the
14:20:16 It's not a one-time credit that was identified here.
14:20:18 So that was part of the concern with the storm -- that
14:20:21 the stormwater department raised, as well as you can
14:20:23 make improvements for stormwater when you construct a
14:20:26 But five years from now those particular improvements
14:20:29 may not have been properly maintained.
14:20:30 But would you still have this credit ongoing.
14:20:32 So those were the concerns that stormwater
14:20:34 specifically raised as to monitoring things of that
14:20:37 But let's take it back and we can talk about it.
14:20:39 >>MARY MULHERN: My question or suggestion is that we
14:20:42 do this through the fees, which is something that the
14:20:46 water department -- they did do when I asked them to
14:20:49 do it for reclaimed water.
14:20:54 Do you follow what I'm saying?
14:20:56 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
14:20:57 Literally, how this is going to work is you are going
14:21:00 to have more than one ordinance, because the ordinance
14:21:02 dealing with stormwater is the appropriate venue in
14:21:05 which to deal with that issue.
14:21:06 So I understand what you're trying to accomplish here
14:21:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Did we vote on that?
14:21:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
14:21:16 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
14:21:17 Opposed, Nay.
14:21:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I appreciate council's patience.
14:21:21 We are making good speed here.
14:21:22 Number 7.
14:21:23 Basically, the premise is, can we in some way or
14:21:27 another encourage or everyone mandate a reduction of
14:21:30 the gas consumption to city vehicles?
14:21:34 I'm trying to get us to reduce 3% per year over the
14:21:37 next search years of 21% gas reduction.
14:21:39 This is a huge budget item.
14:21:42 I mean, can you imagine the amount of money associated
14:21:44 with that if we saved, you know, seven years from now,
14:21:50 we why are using 21% less gas in our vehicles?
14:21:53 To me that's just a no-brainer budget.
14:21:57 Wonderful budget thing.
14:22:03 >>GWEN MILLER: How?
14:22:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We buy better vehicles.
14:22:07 >>CINDY MILLER: If there was a way of modifying the
14:22:10 word couples and make it more to efficiency.
14:22:14 Because again when you are talking a police car, you
14:22:17 want a police car, say, that has a lower usage of
14:22:20 gasoline per mile, but you don't want to control how
14:22:25 much usage that vehicle would make.
14:22:27 So rather than say consumption, because a police
14:22:31 vehicle might use a thousand gallons a year.
14:22:35 You don't want to say a thousand gallons, you are
14:22:38 going to drop it off.
14:22:39 So if we could make sure rather than consumption, it's
14:22:43 See if we can get some verbiage on that.
14:22:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I hear what you're saying, and I
14:22:51 think I'm okay with that.
14:22:53 My goal is that let's say right now, Cindy, we use, as
14:22:57 a city, take a million gallons of water a year, and I
14:23:01 did have the number, but I misplaced it.
14:23:05 The city is not growing that much.
14:23:08 Thus our fleet is not growing that much.
14:23:10 The number of employees is actually shrinking.
14:23:12 So even seven years from now, you know, we are not
14:23:18 going to be using that much -- not going to be driving
14:23:22 that many more miles.
14:23:24 Total, total fleet.
14:23:27 So I don't know at this time same thing or not.
14:23:32 >>MARY MULHERN: I think we should look at other
14:23:34 I remember I went to Chicago and went to their green
14:23:37 building -- they had a green building -- bidding, an
14:23:44 example, and whatever they wrote into their ordinance,
14:23:48 they saved -- I think we should look at what some
14:23:51 other cities are doing, figure out how they word it.
14:23:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
14:23:56 And I know Ms. Saul-Sena just pointed out that on the
14:23:59 paragraph at the top of page 15 says that the goal is
14:24:04 to reduce the gas consumption, and then it says by
14:24:08 purchasing smaller and more fuel efficient vehicles,
14:24:10 wherever feasible.
14:24:12 Because I recognize fire trucks is not somewhere that
14:24:16 we are going to make headway on this but we have a lot
14:24:18 of other vehicles we can.
14:24:19 And then I won't intrude on the mayor's prerogative,
14:24:23 David, in telling her how to do that.
14:24:25 But if we as a council can set that goal as a
14:24:30 definitive goal, 3% a year, the next seven years,
14:24:35 we'll be super heros in this community because we'll
14:24:37 save lots of gas and lots of money.
14:24:43 It would be total, total consumption.
14:24:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Can't put a cap on that, can you?
14:24:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I assume even police cars have some
14:24:58 >> Now that they have computers they can sit there.
14:25:01 >>GWEN MILLER: I saw a cop sitting under a tree.
14:25:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It not a point about them cruising
14:25:06 or not cruising.
14:25:07 >>CHAIRMAN: You have to make up your mind.
14:25:09 Do you want them to run the cruise r or sit under a
14:25:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, no.
14:25:14 The point is, we want them to buy more fuel efficient
14:25:16 cars and vehicles wherever possible.
14:25:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:25:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And reach these goals.
14:25:22 So that's the intent of the motion.
14:25:25 And we'll get legal to make it better.
14:25:36 >> Increasing fuel efficiency.
14:25:43 Question on the motion.
14:25:43 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor say Aye.
14:25:45 Opposed, Nay.
14:25:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
14:25:47 And then number 8.
14:25:49 And this one, I don't even know that we are in any
14:25:53 disagreement on number 8.
14:25:54 The only disagreement is, this is in regard to
14:25:58 creating an office of sustainability and the
14:26:00 sustainability officer.
14:26:01 And then on pages 12, 13 and 14, Mary, these were the
14:26:05 issues you were talking about.
14:26:06 I put specific goals and targets by 2008 we'll do
14:26:11 this, by 2009 they'll do that.
14:26:15 In terms of what the office will do, I think the staff
14:26:20 and I and the committee are all pretty much on the
14:26:21 same page.
14:26:22 I think it's just a function of, you know, can we
14:26:25 mandate in the an ordinance?
14:26:26 My preference would be yes.
14:26:28 Can we put deadlines on it?
14:26:30 My preference would be yes.
14:26:31 Because I think that's how you really get things done.
14:26:34 You know what?
14:26:35 I just had this thought.
14:26:36 When the mayor wants to get things done, within her
14:26:38 staff, she doesn't generically say, okay, staff, you
14:26:42 know, one of these days I want you guys to work on
14:26:45 this and fix it.
14:26:46 You know, I'm sure that Darrell Smith says, get back
14:26:49 with me in 30 days and tell me how we are going to do
14:26:53 Now, I would translate that to council giving
14:26:55 direction to this entire 4500 city employees to say,
14:27:01 you know what?
14:27:02 Let's not be wishy-washy about it, let's try and have
14:27:05 some defined, you know, goals and objectives and that
14:27:08 sorted of thing and let's put some dates on it and
14:27:10 let's be meaningful about it.
14:27:13 >>MARY MULHERN: And we can't fire anybody.
14:27:21 I had something --
14:27:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Doesn't say hire.
14:27:23 It says will create the officer and make a person in
14:27:28 that position.
14:27:30 >>MARY MULHERN: I have something.
14:27:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead.
14:27:31 >>MARY MULHERN: Serious to say about this one.
14:27:34 And I need to look at your wording.
14:27:36 But in the number 8 you have got this office of
14:27:41 sustainability with an accountable sustainability
14:27:47 I see this working differently that the department has
14:27:55 to be accountable to the sustainability officer, so
14:27:58 that the sustainability office is setting the goal for
14:28:03 what the departments need to do as opposed to -- I
14:28:07 mean, this may be just parsing word but I think it
14:28:14 makes a difference if we can get to the point where we
14:28:16 have a sustainability officer, they need to be able to
14:28:21 tell the department what they need to do to be
14:28:24 sustainable as opposed to -- do you follow what I am
14:28:31 It may be written that way already.
14:28:32 But I think --
14:28:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's not because -- I didn't want
14:28:37 to intrude too much into the structure of the mayor's
14:28:42 Which is a big concern.
14:28:45 And that's part of it.
14:28:46 >>MARY MULHERN: As a suggestion, because doesn't work
14:28:50 unless they have some authority, basically.
14:28:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The problem is, under the charter, you
14:29:01 cannot tell the mayor's office what to do or how to
14:29:07 That's the problem I have.
14:29:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Madam Chairman.
14:29:11 Our mayor has said that she cares about the
14:29:13 environment, that she signed on to the U.S. mayor's
14:29:20 green initiative, and I think that she sees that every
14:29:24 publication, every television show, both presidential
14:29:27 candidates are saying that global climate change is a
14:29:32 huge issue, our governor taking the initiative, all
14:29:35 these people are doing things.
14:29:36 I think she is of her own volition going to create
14:29:39 this because it's something she should do.
14:29:41 >> There's only two presidential candidates.
14:29:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Did I say three?
14:29:50 Well, eventually there will be two.
14:29:53 Anyway, whoever is in charge, they are like flashing
14:29:58 pink monitors right now if could you make them
14:30:00 something other than that.
14:30:02 That's better.
14:30:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If you look at page 12, 13 and 14,
14:30:06 I think substantively staff doesn't have a problem
14:30:10 with that.
14:30:11 I think staff had a problem with the dates and I think
14:30:13 staff had a problem with the fact that I prefer to see
14:30:17 it codified in an ordinance as opposed to resolution.
14:30:20 Legal might have a problem with that, too.
14:30:22 I'm not sure.
14:30:30 >>DAVID SMITH: As I said at the outset we haven't had
14:30:42 an opportunity to look at this carefully.
14:30:44 The problem I have with the date is I wouldn't want to
14:30:46 create liability for the city.
14:30:47 I think it's perfectly fine to have target dates, and
14:30:50 things of that nature, and I think that's the intent.
14:30:52 The intent is not to create some kind of statutory
14:30:55 liability, failure to enforce, et cetera.
14:30:57 But I haven't looked at this particular section very
14:31:00 I was going primarily by the concept.
14:31:03 But I understand essentially the concepts on the first
14:31:06 two pages are informed by the analysis that follow so
14:31:09 I will look at that.
14:31:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Why don't I just move it for
14:31:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:31:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And not try to take it any further.
14:31:18 Ask legal to look at those pages, 12, 13 and 14, and
14:31:21 see, you know, if we can head in those directions.
14:31:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other question on the motion?
14:31:28 Mr. Shelby?
14:31:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I just want to see if I can clarify
14:31:31 what the intent of the motion is.
14:31:32 The question is phrased -- is it the sense of council
14:31:36 that the council would prefer this sustainability
14:31:41 office, or office of sustainability, however you want
14:31:44 to refer to it as a mechanism, and to ask legal to
14:31:47 look into the feasibility within council's purview of
14:31:51 allowing or creating such a thing?
14:31:54 I guess my question is, if the City Council does not
14:31:59 express the desire to have something similar to this
14:32:02 concept, or does not have support of this concept,
14:32:05 then the legal department doesn't have to.
14:32:07 But the question is --
14:32:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me rephrase the motion then.
14:32:14 I would like legal department to adopt number 8, pages
14:32:19 12, 13, 14, as an ordinance, if possible, to include
14:32:30 dates, if possible.
14:32:31 If in the alternatives you come top a legal conclusion
14:32:34 under the charter and what have you that you can't do
14:32:36 it as ordinance or you can't include dates, then we'll
14:32:39 fall back and do it as a resolution.
14:32:41 That's the motion.
14:32:42 >> That's what I understood.
14:32:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:32:47 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:32:50 All in favor say Aye.
14:32:51 Opposed, Nay.
14:32:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There's two other areas that didn't
14:32:54 make it on one through eight and I apologize.
14:32:58 On page 16, the affordable housing clause, I think
14:33:06 it's causing some heartburn both in the community and
14:33:09 on this board.
14:33:11 And I don't want to do that with any of this.
14:33:13 So the only thing I would ask legal to do on page 16,
14:33:17 because it not numbered, it's one through eight, is to
14:33:21 look at the intent of that provision, and see if we
14:33:29 can soften it from a mandate to --
14:33:36 >> Incentive?
14:33:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, or to some other best
14:33:40 practices, or to "should" or that sort of thing
14:33:44 instead of "will" and that way, I don't think anybody
14:33:48 could argue that we should be building affordable
14:33:50 housing in as energy and water efficient manner as
14:33:55 But, at the same time, we don't want to negate the
14:34:00 And I respect that.
14:34:01 So the motion is to take that provision on page 16,
14:34:04 soften it to be less mandatory.
14:34:09 Motion and second.
14:34:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:34:15 (Motion carried).
14:34:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And the last part is pages 1 and 18
14:34:20 relate to chapter 27.
14:34:22 Again, this has caused some heartburn.
14:34:24 This is basically incentive in terms of density and
14:34:27 intensity, bonuses.
14:34:30 I met with T.H.A.N. last night.
14:34:32 Marty and I went over there and we had a long chat
14:34:34 about this issue.
14:34:35 They didn't have a problem with the content.
14:34:37 They just want to make sure that we target specific
14:34:40 parts of the city for this provision.
14:34:44 They don't want this provision out in our established
14:34:47 neighborhoods because they are already fighting zoning
14:34:48 density, density and intensity in their established
14:34:54 So I think that we can achieve some of this, Cindy.
14:35:00 I know Cathy has been talking about some of it.
14:35:02 >>CINDY MILLER: And one thing you can be looking, as
14:35:06 the comprehensive plan update that's coming before you
14:35:08 over the next few weeks or few months, I think you
14:35:10 have seen from some of the presentations from the
14:35:13 Planning Commission staff is that they are looking at
14:35:16 certain areas, downtown, Channelside, USF area,
14:35:20 Westshore area, because those are the areas of growth.
14:35:24 You know, where growth should go.
14:35:27 Also at some point in the future, when the routes for
14:35:31 transit are identified, look at that as being an
14:35:34 increased density.
14:35:35 I think what this could be tied to is more of looking
14:35:37 at that from a comprehensive plan standpoint, and then
14:35:40 developing the land development regulations to
14:35:42 correspond to that comprehensive plan update.
14:35:45 I believe the comp plan calls neighborhoods, say, the
14:35:50 stable areas, and from that standpoint would you not
14:35:52 be looking at the stable areas. That would be
14:35:54 something you would be looking at from the standpoint
14:35:56 of the comp plan, and then land development regulation
14:35:58 that is come from it.
14:35:59 I think that would be addressed --
14:36:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I agree with you wholeheartedly
14:36:04 especially in terms of process because we are in the
14:36:06 comp plan update.
14:36:08 My question in regards to page 17 is not to move
14:36:12 forward on page 17 or 18 but instead to direct staff
14:36:14 to explore the possibility of including density and
14:36:17 intensity bonuses for green construction, in the
14:36:22 growth areas, as we are defining them in our updated
14:36:26 comp plan.
14:36:26 And I think those growth areas, I think T.H.A.N. and
14:36:30 others have expressed concern, will be happy with it
14:36:34 because those growth areas generally are not impacting
14:36:36 our established neighborhoods.
14:36:38 So that would be my motion, to direct staff, both our
14:36:41 staff and Planning Commission staff to incorporate
14:36:45 something along the lines of page 17 and 1, but do it
14:36:47 in the comp plan update.
14:36:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:36:52 (Motion carried).
14:36:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's it.
14:36:54 >>GWEN MILLER: That's it.
14:36:56 Thank you.
14:36:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, staff.
14:37:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Miller.
14:37:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When can we come back?
14:37:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Next year?
14:37:08 [ Laughter ]
14:37:08 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
14:37:09 It is going to be a little more involved than you
14:37:11 think, because if we do it in one ordinance, the
14:37:14 problem is we have a single ordinance issue and we are
14:37:16 going to have to segment this.
14:37:18 Cathy Ginster, who has been doing some preliminary
14:37:21 work on this, thinks we may have seven or eight or
14:37:24 nine different subparts some of which may go to
14:37:26 Planning Commission.
14:37:28 Having said that I can't tell you how long it's going
14:37:29 to take.
14:37:30 You need to set a target date like everything else,
14:37:33 you know.
14:37:36 Snapping at our heels.
14:37:37 I would say give us, if you could, at least -- what
14:37:40 are we, February.
14:37:41 Pretty soon, the end of April, something like that, 60
14:37:46 Maybe what we can do is bring some parts to you
14:37:50 It may be amendments to chapter 13.
14:37:52 We can get that together.
14:37:52 And we can bring that to you.
14:37:56 But --
14:37:58 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion.
14:38:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want it on a workshop day?
14:38:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Not on a council day.
14:38:06 A workshop day.
14:38:08 >>THE CLERK: April 24th.
14:38:11 >>GWEN MILLER: April 24th.
14:38:14 >>DAVID SMITH: I think I have a problem on April
14:38:16 Isn't that the "Paint Your Heart Out" weekend, too?
14:38:19 I'm going to be out of town.
14:38:21 Okay, I'm fine with the 24th.
14:38:23 It's the week before I have a problem.
14:38:24 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor.
14:38:26 >>THE CLERK: You have two workshops that day.
14:38:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What do we have?
14:38:31 >>THE CLERK: 9:00, responsible employer ordinance.
14:38:33 And 11:00, mass transit discussion.
14:38:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 10:00.
14:38:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:38:42 >>GWEN MILLER: A 9:00 and what else?
14:38:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 11:00.
14:38:49 >>GWEN MILLER: How long will it take?
14:38:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you want to do 9:30?
14:38:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I think that transit is --
14:39:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Let's start at 1:30.
14:39:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We have already done a lot of work
14:39:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Bring it back as an update and see
14:39:17 where we are.
14:39:18 >>GWEN MILLER: I would rather have everything.
14:39:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Again for the public that is
14:39:24 watching we will not be adopting anything on the
14:39:26 24th of April.
14:39:28 We are not going to adopt anything on the 24th
14:39:30 because that's not when we do workshops.
14:39:34 So we are just going to be bringing it back,
14:39:36 discussing it, and if we have ordinances at a later
14:39:38 date we'll set it at a later date.
14:39:40 >>GWEN MILLER: And no public comment.
14:39:41 We have a motion and second on the floor.
14:39:43 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
14:39:45 Opposed, Nay.
14:39:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We won't have any more workshops
14:39:50 schedules on the 24th of April, is that right?
14:39:54 69 Mr. Smith.
14:39:56 >>DAVID SMITH: Well, I sent council a memorandum with
14:39:59 respect to an item we had set for the 21st of
14:40:02 February, suggesting that we need to continue that,
14:40:05 because we are not making sufficient progress on a
14:40:08 couple of other agreements.
14:40:09 I do want you to know, however, we have set two
14:40:11 meetings on one of those agreements.
14:40:13 We are going to do all we can to not let this
14:40:16 continuation continue yet again.
14:40:19 But it would be premature for us to go forward on the
14:40:22 21st with the first reading of the franchise.
14:40:26 You cannot move that hearing now.
14:40:28 I am simply bringing it up in case you want to address
14:40:31 the issue and anything you do today can't be binding.
14:40:40 But at least some people watching this will get the
14:40:42 sense of council that you agree with the
14:40:44 recommendation, and that you do not intend to move
14:40:46 forward on the 21st, you may not have a full --
14:40:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is a motion the appropriate thing,
14:40:59 the sense of council that we might not proceed on the
14:41:06 >>DAVID SMITH: It wouldn't be binding.
14:41:08 You can't move it till the 21st.
14:41:10 But our recommendation is going to be absolutely very
14:41:12 strong do not move forward on the 21st.
14:41:15 So I think people could rest assured that I think
14:41:19 council would follow that, because you wouldn't want
14:41:22 to put the city at risk, which is what we would be
14:41:25 doing by moving forward on the 21st.
14:41:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So you want to leave it at that?
14:41:31 >>CHAIRMAN: Okay.
14:41:32 City Council annual state of the city individual
14:41:35 program video is going to be held on February 28th
14:41:38 at 8:30 in the morning.
14:41:41 In the court yard.
14:41:43 Everybody got it?
14:41:48 It's suggested in the courtyard on 8:30 on Thursday
14:41:51 the 28th.
14:41:53 Any other announcements?
14:41:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
14:41:56 There's a community forum on Monday the 18th at
14:42:00 the children's board from 7:30 to 8:30 in the evening
14:42:05 to discuss the TECO franchise.
14:42:07 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
14:42:08 Anything else coming before council?
14:42:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have got a commendation
14:42:13 I already made the motion previously.
14:42:14 This is the university of Tampa soccer coach to come
14:42:18 in and accept this commendation on the 21st, next
14:42:22 So moved.
14:42:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:42:24 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye.
14:42:26 Opposed, Nay.
14:42:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I was told at the CRA meeting I
14:42:31 need to bring this up at council.
14:42:32 I would like transportation department to report
14:42:34 back -- report back in a month on whether the
14:42:37 Department of Transportation would be willing to swap
14:42:39 out Twiggs between Meridian and Channelside for
14:42:42 Kennedy, so that we the city then could assume Kennedy
14:42:46 as a city road and make it more of an attractive
14:42:51 gateway to the Channel District in downtown.
14:42:53 >> Second.
14:42:54 (Motion carried).
14:42:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
14:42:59 Motion to receive and file.
14:43:00 >> So moved.
14:43:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:43:03 (Motion carried).
14:43:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Is this a workshop?
14:43:14 >> No, it isn't.
14:43:17 We stand adjourned until 5:30.
14:43:29 (City Council meeting adjourned at 2:44 p.m.)
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