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Tampa City Council
Thursday, February 14, 2008
5:30 p.m. session

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17:36:47 >>GWEN MILLER: At this time we have committee reports.
17:36:49 We have items 1 and 2.
17:36:52 >>> I don't see anyone.
17:36:58 I move item 1 and 2.
17:37:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 1 and 2 separately.
17:37:03 >> I am going to move item 1.
17:37:05 >> Second.
17:37:06 (Motion carried).
17:37:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to move item number

17:37:12 2.
17:37:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Can you hear me now?
17:37:16 Okay.
17:37:16 Item number 2.
17:37:20 Mr. Caetano, number 2.
17:37:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I said move item number 2.
17:37:25 >> Second.
17:37:26 (Motion carried).
17:37:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to take item number 4
17:37:32 before we take up item number 3.
17:37:38 >> Move to item number 4.
17:37:40 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
17:37:43 I gave you copies of the tabs that I distributed to
17:37:48 you in October at our October workshop.
17:37:51 So I reprinted them for you and tabbed them so that
17:37:54 you have a copy of it just in case you didn't have
17:37:56 your own copy.
17:37:58 >> Thank you.
17:38:01 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No problem.
17:38:02 What you have on top is the old style matrix to go
17:38:04 through a brief summary of each section.
17:38:08 What you have on the front of the booklet which has

17:38:18 the time line, how the information is presented to the
17:38:21 public, the workshops we have at the public with you
17:38:23 with the Planning Commission, leading up to today.
17:38:26 I will note for the record the Planning Commission did
17:38:28 hear this at a recommendation, public hearing on
17:38:31 December 10, 2007, at 2:30 p.m., and they did vote to
17:38:35 recommend approval.
17:38:36 And that was transmitted to the city clerk.
17:38:42 If you go to your tabs booklet, page 1, I'll go
17:38:46 briefly through these.
17:38:48 Tab 1, the solid waste provisions that are proposed by
17:38:51 the solid waste department.
17:38:53 The first one being clarification that -- the buffer
17:39:00 requirements for commercial residential uses.
17:39:02 We typically allow utilities to encroach.
17:39:06 This is to clarify the dumpster enclosures are not one
17:39:10 of those utilities, cannot occur with without some
17:39:14 kind of waiver.
17:39:15 The second provision is that there is some added
17:39:17 language to clarify that locations for dumpster
17:39:20 facilities and solid waste facilities are serviceable
17:39:22 and safely accessible, in the middle of page 1, and

17:39:28 that a four-foot walkway must be installed from the
17:39:32 screening enclosure to the city public right-of-way.
17:39:34 I will note that we have had some concerns raised as
17:39:38 to why that provision was proposed.
17:39:41 As I stated, that came from the solid waste
17:39:43 department.
17:39:44 I'm not sure if they are here.
17:39:47 That would entail four-foot walkway even on
17:39:50 residential properties, new construction being from
17:39:52 that enclosure to the public right-of-way.
17:39:56 I didn't receive any staff objections to that but I
17:39:59 have heard some concerns from the public on that.
17:40:05 And then finally, 27-324, also added clarifying
17:40:11 language that the solid waste location should be
17:40:14 serviceable, safely accessible.
17:40:20 If you go to tab 2, those are the bonus provisions.
17:40:22 Those are standard bonus provisions for any
17:40:25 development within any one of the categories, the land
17:40:28 use categories.
17:40:29 There's a threshold in each one.
17:40:32 To achieve that bonus throughout the city, you need to
17:40:34 pick three items out of the ten that are out of the

17:40:39 code.
17:40:39 The very first one that's listed is affordable
17:40:41 housing.
17:40:41 All this language does is clarify -- it used to say
17:40:45 just median income.
17:40:47 It should be area median income to match the HUD
17:40:49 requirements.
17:40:50 So it was just a word change.
17:40:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you want questions as you go along?
17:41:02 >>> It's up to you.
17:41:03 >>MARY MULHERN: It's better to for me to ask now.
17:41:06 The bonus density provisions, it's by geographic area?
17:41:14 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No, our land use category, you can
17:41:17 choose 18 units per acre basically by right or
17:41:19 whatever zoning district you have.
17:41:20 If you want to try to achieve the 20 you have to go
17:41:23 through a site plan rezoning and you have to provide
17:41:26 three of the ten items that are listed in the zoning
17:41:28 code.
17:41:28 One of them being affordable housing.
17:41:32 >> So what's the lowest intensity zoning?
17:41:39 R-20?

17:41:41 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land use.
17:41:43 R-10, you can get up to 9 and if you try to achieve
17:41:47 the 10th unit you have to provide the bonus.
17:41:50 >> I'm just curious because it came up today talking
17:41:56 about the green ordinance, and we were talking about
17:42:00 density bonuses, for green buildings.
17:42:03 And people from T.H.A.N. had a problem with where that
17:42:08 was going to happen.
17:42:11 >>> From what I understand, the bonus, that the other
17:42:14 regulations may be contemplating bonuses above the
17:42:16 maximum in those categories.
17:42:19 If you're in an R-10, you have a contemplation of 10
17:42:23 units per acre, you have to provide a little bit more
17:42:25 just to get to 10, which is the maximum.
17:42:27 If you are in that R-20 you have to provide a little
17:42:30 bit more just to get to 20.
17:42:32 What I believe that I have seen in the other types of
17:42:36 regulations that you are seeing is to get above the
17:42:38 maximum.
17:42:38 Not within the threshold of the number.
17:42:45 >> So the ten --
17:42:47 >>> those are land use categories.

17:42:48 >> classified.
17:42:50 >>> Classifications.
17:42:54 >> You still would need to do some of these things in
17:42:56 order to get --
17:43:01 >>> potentially.
17:43:02 Think of it in layers.
17:43:03 You have got your dirt.
17:43:04 The first layer of regulation is your land use.
17:43:06 That tells you the future land use and the potential
17:43:09 development.
17:43:11 R-10, ten units per acre maximum.
17:43:14 What you have on top of that is what you can pull a
17:43:16 permit for today.
17:43:17 That's your zoning district.
17:43:19 Typically, that is RS-50, RS-60, something to that
17:43:24 degree.
17:43:24 Normally with an RS-50 or RS 60 when you use just the
17:43:28 basic math, you are not going to get ten units per
17:43:31 acre the way that we regulate our lots.
17:43:33 You may only get six or eight units per acre.
17:43:35 So what this is saying if you want to achieve that
17:43:38 ten, you have to go through a PD, or some type of site

17:43:41 plan control district just to get to ten.
17:43:44 And then if you do that --
17:43:49 >> Through the rezoning process.
17:43:51 >>> Yes.
17:43:52 To achieve the maximum you do.
17:43:53 Yes.
17:43:53 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone) but do you agree with
17:43:59 me that we are allowing to increase density?
17:44:04 >> If the PD is coming before us.
17:44:07 >> Okay.
17:44:08 >>> To achieve the maximum, yes.
17:44:09 9 you may continue.
17:44:13 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Tab 3, this is just a process
17:44:17 correction.
17:44:17 It originally had the director reviewing, which is not
17:44:23 the practice and never has been.
17:44:25 This is actually the zoning administrator that does
17:44:27 that.
17:44:28 Tab 4, site plan review procedures.
17:44:31 This is a collection from the last round, when we
17:44:34 changed the process to a certified site plan process.
17:44:38 This is to add the signature line for the zoning

17:44:40 administrator to certify the site plan so it a
17:44:43 correction of the last change that we did, last cycle.
17:44:47 Tab 5, lot width regulations.
17:44:50 If you don't meet your minimum lot width, the process
17:44:53 that was spelled out in the section was to go to the
17:44:55 Variance Review Board, or the Barrio Latino, depending
17:45:00 on what district you're in.
17:45:02 The correct process is to rezone the property.
17:45:04 Not just the variance to the minimum width or goals of
17:45:08 the property.
17:45:09 But that's a process correction.
17:45:12 Tab 6.
17:45:15 It covers the appeal method.
17:45:16 And this does a couple of different things.
17:45:20 It clearly spells out the standard review for City
17:45:24 Council.
17:45:25 Typically you will get an S-1 appeal that I've denied
17:45:29 for whatever use it is, and the standard of review by
17:45:34 practice is to be able to waive those special use
17:45:37 criteria.
17:45:38 It was never clearly spelled out in the code so that's
17:45:41 what the provision does.

17:45:41 It clearly states that you are able to do that.
17:45:43 The second thing that these provisions do, which has
17:45:46 been the concern of council in the past, is when you
17:45:49 have an appeal come from a lower board.
17:45:53 Right now your only ability if you wanted to overturn
17:45:56 that, you have to do the first step, remanding, they
17:46:00 hear it again and it comes back a second time.
17:46:02 What this does is it eliminates the extra step.
17:46:05 If you hear and you want to overturn it you can do
17:46:08 that as opposed to having to remand it.
17:46:11 Tab 7, central business district regulations.
17:46:16 We worked with the downtown partnership and various
17:46:18 property owners.
17:46:19 We came up with some alternatives.
17:46:21 The first being off-site parking.
17:46:24 Right now in the city can be 300 feet away from the
17:46:27 property, a long-term lease.
17:46:29 Downtown, we have increased that to 1,000 feet, which
17:46:31 is a very typical walking distance downtown.
17:46:36 We came up with design options for public open space,
17:46:39 which also allows you, if you design it a certain way
17:46:42 based on diagrams that we have provided, you are able

17:46:45 to reduce your requirement because you are actually
17:46:48 placing an aggregate on major corridors, or all along
17:46:52 one particular roadway.
17:46:54 And then the last provision is parking regulations.
17:47:08 This clarifies that compact spaces may be utilized for
17:47:14 up to 100% of the parking spaces.
17:47:16 It also creates the ability to use motorcycle parking
17:47:19 spaces as part of your required up to 10%, and those
17:47:25 are dimension of five feet by eight feet.
17:47:30 Tab 8, the general parking regulations for the city.
17:47:33 This came up probably six, eight months ago.
17:47:37 You had senior housing development downtown, I
17:47:39 believe, that had come before you and then you have a
17:47:42 parking waiver and it was determined in that case that
17:47:45 really only one space per unit was needed, and that
17:47:48 triggered that motion to have us go back and revise
17:47:51 that specifically for senior housing that meets the
17:47:54 HUD definition for senior housing.
17:47:56 They would only have to provide one space per unit.
17:48:01 Then to clarify for administrative parking waivers for
17:48:08 reused buildings, buildings built prior to 1988, it
17:48:14 says medical office but we need to capture all the

17:48:16 medical uses, so we changed that to medical use.
17:48:21 Tab 9, Kennedy Boulevard overlay.
17:48:23 Right now the overlay restricts your choices for
17:48:25 streetscape trees to live oak only.
17:48:27 This provision allows the inclusion of Chinese elm and
17:48:33 holly oak options as well but we do have over power
17:48:36 lines.
17:48:39 Tab 10, crematory regulations.
17:48:43 This came about, the original motion that hi could
17:48:48 find back from December '06 when the discussion
17:48:51 originally happened with the crematory and Seminole
17:48:53 Heights, that crematory moved to Ybor City, and that
17:48:58 triggered a lot of discussion with City Council, and
17:49:04 particularly where the provisions came from, it wasn't
17:49:06 the direction of City Council.
17:49:07 I did receive two letters, one from cremation center
17:49:18 of Tampa Bay.
17:49:19 Actually the cremation center that operates on
17:49:21 26th.
17:49:22 And we did receive a letter from the Florida mortuary,
17:49:26 funeral cremation services on Nebraska.
17:49:29 They asked that when actually continue this particular

17:49:31 piece of the ordinance for more discussion.
17:49:33 I believe the one that operates on 26th, at least
17:49:38 by my read of the letter, she wasn't prepared to be
17:49:41 here.
17:49:42 I would recommend at this time maybe when do look at
17:49:44 continuing that segment of this ordinance, only so we
17:49:48 can further that discussion.
17:49:49 They have raised some valid points that they want to
17:49:52 be able to bring up to you, and I think out of
17:49:54 fairness that that would be appropriate.
17:49:58 Tab 11, waterfront yard.
17:50:05 This is as a result of a motion by council about a
17:50:08 year ago, to low at developing a river overlay for
17:50:12 Hillsborough River, north of Columbus, up to the dam.
17:50:15 And as we went through the regulation, and we looked
17:50:19 at Hillsborough County, we went on two river boat
17:50:23 tours, one with Ms. Saul-Sena and one of the property
17:50:28 owners on the river in that section.
17:50:29 We looked at, like I said, surrounding community that
17:50:33 actually front the river, their regulations, and we
17:50:36 developed just the basic setbacks for building and
17:50:40 accessory structures as opposed to tackling an entire

17:50:43 river overlay, because the river is very different in
17:50:45 the way that it's built from Columbus to the dam.
17:50:48 The development is completely different.
17:50:50 So we developed a setback requirement.
17:50:52 I did receive an e-mail from a river property owner
17:50:58 that would like that continued as well for more
17:51:01 discussion.
17:51:04 So that's the interaction.
17:51:05 I'm not sure if he's present.
17:51:07 What it does, though, is set back principal
17:51:12 structures, changes it from the standard which is
17:51:14 around 20 feet, changes to the 30 feet.
17:51:16 And it changes the accessory structure setback from 15
17:51:27 to 30, pulls things away from the river to allow more
17:51:31 pervious area.
17:51:32 It also allows that no more than 30% of that area that
17:51:36 you are creating in that yard can be impervious.
17:51:39 There were a lot of concerns raised for run-off into
17:51:41 the river, and really how those waterfront yards are
17:51:46 being developed from the river boat tours.
17:51:54 Tab 12, vendor regulations.
17:51:57 As I noted in October, the vendor regulations came

17:51:59 about a couple years ago, and we tried to get them
17:52:03 through, where there was some controversy on them and
17:52:06 some discussions so we pulled them back.
17:52:09 We have them back before you.
17:52:11 And as I said before, from a staff perspective and
17:52:14 code enforcement perspective, we need a regulation one
17:52:19 way or the other.
17:52:19 The regulation is fairly loose and highly interpretive
17:52:22 in the code today. We have an administrative process
17:52:29 to approve these vendors on an annual basis and with
17:52:33 very strict guidelines for them.
17:52:35 However, it's not technically in the code the way we
17:52:37 do it.
17:52:38 And certain code enforcement issues are very gray.
17:52:42 And so what we are trying to do is actually spell out
17:52:44 the regulations for vendors, vendor parts, where they
17:52:49 can be located, particular streets on which they can
17:52:51 be located, when and how they operate.
17:52:54 I know in some discussions I have had, the thought of
17:52:58 having annual vendors may not be what is appropriate
17:53:04 potentially.
17:53:05 Maybe only looking at doing temporary vendors for

17:53:09 seasonal type activities, Christmas trees, Valentine's
17:53:12 Day, Easter, those type of holiday vendors, and doing
17:53:15 temporary vendors for sports entertainment venues,
17:53:19 which we are also open to -- we as staff and from a
17:53:23 code enforcement perspective are really just trying to
17:53:25 get a solid regulation so that we can actually deal
17:53:28 with these uses better and more efficiently.
17:53:32 I'm open to discussion on that if you have any
17:53:34 questions.
17:53:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
17:53:44 I have a couple, if I may.
17:53:47 And the reason I'm bringing this up, I was interviewed
17:53:51 by one of the journals in the area, and I don't want
17:53:53 to sound like I misled that individual when he asked
17:53:56 me about the cost of applying for a wet zoning.
17:54:01 And I gave him the best answer that I knew at that
17:54:04 time.
17:54:05 I had read it.
17:54:06 I hadn't digested all of it. And now I'm looking at
17:54:10 something that's here.
17:54:11 And can you tell us what, if any, additional cost
17:54:16 there is versus today's application for a wet zoning,

17:54:19 and the new application for a wet zoning, constructed
17:54:25 to be?
17:54:26 Circulation and analysis plan for the impact, that's
17:54:31 expensive.
17:54:32 Is that currently what we use?
17:54:34 Or do we have something new coming in?
17:54:38 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I actually hadn't gotten to the
17:54:41 alcohol tab yet.
17:54:42 >> I'm ahead of myself for once in my life.
17:54:45 Let's go to vendors.
17:54:46 You're right.
17:54:47 We have annual vendors, supplies vendors, they don't
17:54:49 have a license, vendors that sell anything from filet
17:54:55 mignon to shrimp or whatever.
17:54:57 And for whatever reason, district 6 is applying an
17:55:01 example of a mismatch of everything from canals to
17:55:04 vendors to whatever problems they are, they fall
17:55:07 mostly in district 6 and I'm honored to represent that
17:55:10 district and I know the other council members feel
17:55:13 that their district is just as well protected with
17:55:15 them there.
17:55:16 The vendor issue is one that's very thorny because I

17:55:19 get a lot of calls on certain streets that operate at
17:55:24 night close to the sidewalk with in a parking, and
17:55:29 they are not seasonal, they are homesteaded without
17:55:31 paying any homestead tax.
17:55:34 They certainly, in my opinion, compete against the
17:55:36 business sector who is there and trying very hard to
17:55:40 make ends meet.
17:55:40 I have nothing against vendors.
17:55:42 However, when we say you can be there for 45
17:55:45 consecutive days, or 90 days, and if you look at the
17:55:50 calendar and you multiply 52 times 2, I guess you get
17:55:54 104, and you are there for 90 days, in essence you are
17:55:58 there every weekend almost.
17:56:01 So we are quoting them as business and they are
17:56:06 hurting the public in general, because wherever they
17:56:08 are at, usually when a little strip mall classes,
17:56:15 bingo, they are right there, or maybe renting out
17:56:17 space.
17:56:17 I don't know.
17:56:18 But it creates a traffic problem.
17:56:21 In my opinion it creates a health problem.
17:56:23 Those meals that are being served maybe taste great,

17:56:27 and I hope no one ever gets sick, but are they
17:56:31 regulated by the restaurant, hotel association? I
17:56:34 don't know.
17:56:35 I knew when I was in the restaurant business we get
17:56:38 one or two calls a year unannounced, usually right
17:56:41 after lunch when things are not so orderly in fashion
17:56:45 like you like to see them when they come in.
17:56:47 And these are things that are just troublesome to me
17:56:51 to see an open-ended vendor, not you.
17:56:54 Don't get me wrong.
17:56:56 I'm not talking at you.
17:56:57 And I like the way you dress in black, by the way.
17:56:59 And these are the things that mean a lot.
17:57:03 I say that because I dressed in black for six straits
17:57:06 months here once and it didn't do any good.
17:57:08 They won.
17:57:09 So what I'm saying is these are the things that they
17:57:12 tried to get across in the vending area, and they are
17:57:16 good people, and they are making a living.
17:57:18 But how can we be more -- without greater cost?
17:57:26 The next question, do we regulate and go visit all
17:57:28 these vendors that we have given a license to?

17:57:30 I don't know.
17:57:33 >>> Well, from my perspective in the zoning office
17:57:36 when we issue a permit the enforcement is anything we
17:57:39 do for the most part goes to the code enforcement
17:57:41 office, and typically it is complaint driven.
17:57:43 We don't have an annual inspection of those carts.
17:57:47 The only thing we have an annual inspection now are
17:57:50 extended family residences, those special uses that we
17:57:52 issue.
17:57:53 We do require, though, that annual vendors that are
17:57:55 preparing food have the appropriate state and federal
17:57:58 licenses for whatever they have to have.
17:58:01 Do we have any ability to take their vendor permit
17:58:03 away if they don't have it?
17:58:05 That's not actually in this provision.
17:58:07 I can explore that with the legal department and see
17:58:09 if we can put that in.
17:58:11 But we don't have that in today.
17:58:13 Just that they must have their licenses.
17:58:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have no clause at all to retract
17:58:19 the license?
17:58:20 >>> Well, it is a special use.

17:58:22 So if it lapses or if we find them in violation, I
17:58:25 mean, we can take them through the code enforcement
17:58:27 process today.
17:58:31 If this is adopted.
17:58:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
17:58:36 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: If somebody is going to remodel
17:58:38 their wet zone, how many days do they have in order to
17:58:42 complete this wet zone?
17:58:44 Remodeling?
17:58:45 >>> Remodel their wet zone?
17:58:51 I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
17:58:53 >>GWEN MILLER: If they are going to remodel, how long
17:58:55 do they last?
17:58:56 >>> Under the current code?
17:58:58 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: No, understood the new code that
17:58:59 you want to put in.
17:59:01 >>> You mean going to stop selling the alcohol?
17:59:07 >> Rip the place apart and rebuild it.
17:59:10 How long does their license last?
17:59:11 I have heard it's 180 days.
17:59:13 >>> Special uses in general lapse after 180 days of
17:59:17 not being used.

17:59:19 >> So if they do not complete this in 180 days, they
17:59:22 are going to have to go through the whole process
17:59:24 again in order to get wet zoned?
17:59:27 >>> By the strict read of the code, yes.
17:59:29 >> Okay.
17:59:31 >>> However, the only thing I would say, there's a
17:59:36 legal --
17:59:37 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
17:59:39 There has been some case law that's recently come out
17:59:41 that says for special use permits, and special use
17:59:45 permit that is while the property is under active
17:59:47 construction, even if they are not continuing the
17:59:50 operation, as long as it's under active construction,
17:59:55 businesses dry up but special use permits state that
17:59:58 it is no longer active.
18:00:00 It would be from the point in time that all action on
18:00:02 the property has stopped construction action, reported
18:00:07 as empty, nobody is going in and out, and it's at that
18:00:10 point in time that you would start your 180 days.
18:00:13 >> So if they want to reactivate that again after 180
18:00:17 days, they have to apply for a new wet zoning?
18:00:20 >>> It's all activity.

18:00:23 And I don't mean construction activity.
18:00:25 I'm including construction activity within all
18:00:28 activity from the property for 180 days.
18:00:32 Nothing is happening.
18:00:32 No building permits are sitting out there.
18:00:35 Nothing is happening.
18:00:36 And, yes, they would be required to come back in and
18:00:39 request a wet zoning.
18:00:41 >> So they would have to do a traffic analysis, a
18:00:44 security analysis, and everything else in order to get
18:00:47 reactivated?
18:00:48 >>> It would ab new application.
18:00:49 >> I think that's a little too much for any small
18:00:52 business to be paying $25,000 for a traffic analysis
18:00:57 and a security analysis.
18:01:00 And is that state statute or is that an ordinance in
18:01:03 the City of Tampa?
18:01:04 >>> It also depends on what type of alcohol permit
18:01:08 they are asking for.
18:01:09 I mean, some package stores, small convenience stores
18:01:12 aren't going to require a traffic analysis.
18:01:14 The large venue versus the small venue, that's where

18:01:17 you get security and the business plan and other
18:01:20 things.
18:01:20 The large venue is over 199 people.
18:01:23 Your typical convenience store, small restaurant,
18:01:26 isn't going to have over 200 people.
18:01:28 We have a list of the "R" classifications right now,
18:01:31 and the vast majority of them that are over 200 are
18:01:34 very large venues.
18:01:36 You do capture sometimes some of the Chili's
18:01:40 restaurants and some of the TGI Fridays, but the vast
18:01:43 majority, the ones under 200 which are small venues
18:01:45 that don't have to provide the security plan, and the
18:01:48 business plan, are really the mom and pop restaurants,
18:01:52 smaller venues.
18:01:53 >> We had a workshop on this?
18:01:56 >>> Yes.
18:01:57 >> How many workshops did you have?
18:01:59 >>> We had a couple.
18:02:01 Two?
18:02:04 We started early in 2007.
18:02:07 We had an initial public workshop to talk about the
18:02:09 move.

18:02:10 And then from three to 27.
18:02:12 Then we had workshop in October.
18:02:14 October 25th again with these regulations.
18:02:17 And then we had two public information workshops in
18:02:19 September as well.
18:02:22 And the language was transmitted to our uptakers which
18:02:27 was about 100 people or so.
18:02:32 It's been out for a little over five months.
18:02:34 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you.
18:02:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena?
18:02:40 Go ahead, Ms. Coyle.
18:02:42 >>CATHERINE COYLE: We talked a little about alcohol.
18:02:45 Really, just to reiterate what it is, it's the shift,
18:02:49 the transition from chapter 3 to 27, turning the wet
18:02:53 zonings into special uses, as Ms. Kert can speak to
18:02:57 that, the case law that said they are actually special
18:03:00 uses and granting them.
18:03:03 Just to give you the highlights, what we have done is
18:03:08 we have broken them down into five classes of uses of
18:03:11 a special use.
18:03:13 Tough large venue, small venue, package sales,
18:03:17 temporary, and sidewalk cafe.

18:03:19 The only one in our previous discussions with council
18:03:22 that could be processed administratively based on a
18:03:27 motion initiated by Mr. Dingfelder was if you have got
18:03:31 a large shopping center or mall, like International
18:03:35 Plaza was brought up in that discussion, that that
18:03:37 could probably process administratively, because you
18:03:41 typically have a lot of the restaurants that come in
18:03:43 and out of international mall that go dark and then
18:03:46 have to come back again.
18:03:48 But they really should be able to practice
18:03:51 administratively.
18:03:52 So we put that in under large venue and small venue,
18:03:57 that if you are within a large commercial development
18:03:59 of 500 that you square feet or more, which captures
18:04:02 the two malls, Westshore and international, that you
18:04:06 can process administratively with the following
18:04:09 conditions, that the measurement that is taken is not
18:04:13 from the business establishment, but from the zoning
18:04:17 of the entire development and the distance measurement
18:04:20 is 250 feet instead of 1,000.
18:04:23 And any violations of that, they could -- the ones
18:04:33 that are left in the shopping center less than 500

18:04:36 square feet which is basically every other development
18:04:38 for large venue, which as I said is over 199 person
18:04:44 occupancy, would need to provide a business plan which
18:04:48 describes the hours of operation, the number of
18:04:50 employees, operational character, the application,
18:04:54 which is very similar to the letters that we get, if
18:04:57 someone is defining a use that's not typically defined
18:05:00 in our code.
18:05:00 They issue to me to-to describe their type of
18:05:06 business.
18:05:08 A parking plan which describes how and where the cars
18:05:10 are going to be parked is typically a site plan.
18:05:13 If they are going to have valet services or tandem
18:05:15 parking they need to describe that on that plan.
18:05:19 An indoor outdoor crowd control plan is for people
18:05:23 waiting to gain entry into the establishment, this
18:05:26 deals with queuing lines, and outdoor congregation of
18:05:30 people, how they are going to get in and out of the
18:05:32 facility.
18:05:33 Security plans, which is not unlike what we do
18:05:38 downtown and Ybor and the Channel District now with
18:05:41 increased security and off-duty police officers,

18:05:44 traffic circulation analysis, which details the impact
18:05:47 of projected traffic on the immediate neighborhood,
18:05:49 which typically, what you are going to do is show
18:05:53 where your driveways and how the traffic is going to
18:05:55 come in and out of the site.
18:05:57 Sanitation plan, which demonstrates where your
18:05:59 dumpsters are on-site and how they are going to be
18:06:01 picked up and a noise attenuation plan which is
18:06:04 typically covered under chapter 3 doo.
18:06:10 There is one section in here as well.
18:06:12 For purposes of this section, an establishment that
18:06:15 has a full kitchen, and it describes that it has
18:06:17 ovens, commercial grade burners, refrigeration units,
18:06:21 place that is have full kitchens -- actually, let me
18:06:29 read this.
18:06:30 I'm sorry, I lost my train of thought.
18:06:35 Places with full kitchens also must contain grease
18:06:39 trap receptors and meet all applicable city, county
18:06:41 and state codes for grease containment and health
18:06:46 department regulations.
18:06:48 Let's see.
18:06:49 The small venues which are under 200 do not have to

18:06:54 provide that additional criteria.
18:06:56 They are small areas of congregation assembly.
18:07:00 They do estimate a 1,000-foot distance separation from
18:07:04 specified uses, but if they are within a large
18:07:07 shopping center of 500,000 square feet or more they
18:07:11 can reduce that to 250 feet.
18:07:13 Let's see.
18:07:16 Temporary sales.
18:07:18 That's your temporary wet zone that you do today, as
18:07:21 opposed to it being on the public agenda.
18:07:23 It's not a public hearing.
18:07:25 That was processed administratively and we have
18:07:27 shortened the time frame.
18:07:29 You applied ten times prior to your event.
18:07:31 We simply process it very quickly.
18:07:35 We set criteria for that as well.
18:07:42 The temporary does have to be a nonprofit or
18:07:45 government agency that can apply, on-premises
18:07:48 consumption only, does have to be a nonresidential
18:07:51 zoning or a legally nonconform, nonresidential use in
18:07:55 a residential zoning district, like a church, or a
18:07:58 daycare.

18:07:59 Typically those uses ask for temporary wet zoning.
18:08:03 One is the three consecutive days at a time.
18:08:06 And you only get three a year per organization.
18:08:10 You must feature -- sales at 12 a.m., net profits have
18:08:14 to go to the nonprofit and there are insurance
18:08:16 requirements for government land.
18:08:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You say 4 a.m.?
18:08:22 >>> 12 a.m.
18:08:24 >> Oh, 12 a.m.
18:08:27 I'm sorry.
18:08:27 >>> I'm asleep at 4 a.m.
18:08:29 >> Three a year.
18:08:30 Does that mean three year of the organization or three
18:08:33 year at the location also?
18:08:34 >>> Organization.
18:08:35 >> Organization.
18:08:36 So you can have many in the same location?
18:08:37 >>> Yes.
18:08:38 >> Although it's not the same, and you cross reference
18:08:42 to make sure it not the same organization with another
18:08:44 name?
18:08:46 >>> Um, no, I mean the organizations are by their

18:08:50 entity name.
18:08:51 So for some reason you start another nonprofit, no, we
18:08:55 can't penalize you for that.
18:09:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The question I had posed earlier,
18:09:06 when we were on 27-73 -- 143, does this apply to
18:09:15 applying under the new guidelines?
18:09:17 >>> The wet zoning fees are called out on our fee
18:09:22 sheet that we have today.
18:09:23 I actually don't have in the front of me.
18:09:25 I have to look at it.
18:09:26 I don't know that we would charge anything different
18:09:28 than what it is.
18:09:29 >> And again the reason I say this, I had an interview
18:09:32 on the telephone with one of the journals, and after I
18:09:35 finished the conversation I wanted to make sure that I
18:09:37 was correct, and I reread this thing and you missed a
18:09:41 couple.
18:09:41 I know traffic circulation analysis cost money.
18:09:46 I would say 10 to $25,000, the way things are now.
18:09:50 And I don't know if I answered the individual
18:09:54 correctly.
18:09:55 I said, you know, due diligence based on those trying

18:09:57 to get whatever they want.
18:10:01 I'm not much of a politician.
18:10:03 I think I gave him the wrong answer.
18:10:05 But way meant is it's up to you, whoever that entity
18:10:08 is, the person or groups of persons that want to get a
18:10:10 wet zoning, to determine if the cost factor is going
18:10:13 to be who did it because your sales are going to be
18:10:17 very low or be very high and then become less
18:10:19 prohibitive.
18:10:21 So you don't know if there is.
18:10:22 I would really like to know that.
18:10:25 If you don't have it maybe you could pass it to the
18:10:27 council sometime this evening or something.
18:10:29 >>> I can go back and get the sheet and answer that.
18:10:32 >> Thanks very much.
18:10:37 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The last issue was really with the
18:10:40 alcohol that was of some concern. And I'll note
18:10:43 really quickly, I did receive an e-mail from Ann
18:10:50 PALLET.
18:10:52 She was in the mechanics group.
18:10:53 She had a concern with the 250-foot distance
18:10:58 separation.

18:10:58 If you are in a large shopping center, and she went
18:11:01 back and read the motion.
18:11:02 And as she read it, she understood that really council
18:11:06 was really just trying to allow them to come in and
18:11:09 out of those large malls without really any major
18:11:14 hurdles.
18:11:15 The 250-foot distance separation was put into the
18:11:18 ordinance as a reduction from the thousand.
18:11:21 She went ahead and did some measurements from
18:11:23 International Plaza, and obviously the airport
18:11:26 authority is immediately adjacent to the International
18:11:28 Plaza, which is an institutional use.
18:11:31 There's also a neighborhood association and other wet
18:11:34 zonings within 250 feet across Boy Scout.
18:11:38 So in effect what you have with the 250-foot distance
18:11:41 separation, it would be an S-1 review for me and I
18:11:46 would have to deny it.
18:11:46 So there really is no benefit to processing with the
18:11:49 distance separation.
18:11:51 I would always trigger an appeal hearing with council,
18:11:53 at Westshore and at International Plaza.
18:11:56 So she was requesting simply that you change the 250

18:11:59 down to zero.
18:12:00 Otherwise, it defeats the purpose of allowing them to
18:12:04 switch in and out of the malls.
18:12:10 Large commercial shopping developments that are
18:12:12 500,000 square feet or larger, which are quite large.
18:12:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The 250 feet you are talking about,
18:12:26 Cathy, from institutional use, but 250 feet from the
18:12:30 sales establishment to the additional use.
18:12:35 If you are right there in the middle of that
18:12:38 entertainment at International Plaza, and you go from
18:12:42 there out to the edge of the mall, that's more than
18:12:46 250 feet.
18:12:48 Unless you're measuring from the edge of the mall.
18:12:50 >> The measurement of that mall the way that it
18:12:52 written is measured from the zoning lot itself, which
18:12:55 includes the parking lot.
18:12:56 The boundary of the overall property.
18:12:59 250 from that.
18:13:01 We can certainly revise that to say 250 from the
18:13:03 establishment.
18:13:04 Then we wouldn't get beyond the parking lot.
18:13:06 >> I mean just related to the mega malls, I think that

18:13:11 was the intent.
18:13:16 >> Now you will hear from the neighborhood association
18:13:17 they want them to process, I believe, it's a special
18:13:20 use 2, or have a thousand feet.
18:13:23 And that's what's going to be debated tonight is
18:13:25 really to figure out the policy direction from
18:13:26 council, and which way you want these to go.
18:13:34 >> Well, we'll talk about it.
18:13:38 >> The last piece is the drying, extension period for
18:13:42 wet zoning.
18:13:45 Sales of alcoholic beverages by special use.
18:13:47 Right now understood the wet zoning provision, there's
18:13:49 a 30-day hosting person for becoming dry, if you don't
18:13:56 resume sales within 30 days you go dry.
18:13:58 You can apply for an administrative exemption of 120
18:14:01 days beyond that.
18:14:02 And then if you can't reopen within that 120 days you
18:14:05 can come and petition for the year extension.
18:14:09 Some can apply most of the time.
18:14:10 Some can only get one request for an extension.
18:14:13 So you're looking at a minimum on a wet zoning 150
18:14:18 plus a year.

18:14:19 So almost a year and a half.
18:14:22 Just shy of a year and a half potential where it could
18:14:24 be dry.
18:14:26 In theory.
18:14:28 Under the special use criteria, all special uses of
18:14:31 180 day lapse provision.
18:14:33 Churches, schools, crematoriums, anything that's a
18:14:38 special use of 180 day lapse provision.
18:14:40 So what was carried over from chapter 3 is the 30-day
18:14:44 hosting period.
18:14:45 And then the administrative exemption was change from
18:14:48 120 days to 150 so it made up the 180 day special use.
18:14:53 And as Ms. Cole just alluded to if you go beyond the
18:14:59 180 days and you abandon, stop activity completely,
18:15:02 property is vacant, there's no permit to fix anything,
18:15:06 it just done, then you are going to laugh if it's done
18:15:09 for 180 days.
18:15:10 But if you got active permits and you are trying to --
18:15:15 dry you or take away your special use permit.
18:15:18 And that is basically in a nutshell where we are.
18:15:30 The language was distributed August 1st
18:15:33 internally, September 5th made it available for

18:15:36 the public and posted on the web site.
18:15:38 We had two public workshops.
18:15:41 In the Mascotte room.
18:15:42 One was City Council in October.
18:15:44 One for the Planning Commission.
18:15:45 It's been in our newsletter since September which goes
18:15:50 out weekly to neighborhood associations.
18:15:52 Planning Commission voted consistent.
18:15:55 So I gave you a couple of the items that I believe
18:15:57 should be continued for discussion.
18:16:00 And I'll just reiterate what they are.
18:16:03 The crematorium I believe should be continued for
18:16:05 discussion based on the comments of that we received.
18:16:07 We may want to continue the waterfront lot discussions
18:16:12 for a later time to discuss.
18:16:14 The 4-foot walkway for the solid waste was proposed by
18:16:18 solid waste.
18:16:20 I really have no problems either way.
18:16:21 There is concerns with why that's in from.
18:16:27 You can make them bring it back at a later time and
18:16:29 explain it.
18:16:30 The vendors, that's really policy direction that I

18:16:32 need from you.
18:16:34 And comments on the alcohol.
18:16:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
18:16:40 This is more likely a legal question.
18:16:41 When we rezone a piece of property for alcohol,
18:16:46 beverage sales, that stays with the property forever,
18:16:49 right?
18:16:50 Or wrong?
18:16:54 >>REBECCA KERT: Both wet zonings, run with the land.
18:16:59 On property that Kathy was talking about there's the
18:17:02 150, which under the special use requires a showing of
18:17:05 intent to abandon.
18:17:08 >> Now I sell my neighborhood whatever you want to
18:17:16 call it, and they built something that I may need in
18:17:20 the future, assisted living home, that's wet zoned
18:17:23 alcohol automatically?
18:17:26 >>> If the property is wet zoned and they change the
18:17:28 use, yes, the wet zoning stays with the property.
18:17:31 >> So is there any legal way of saying that once a
18:17:34 property changes from what it originally was to
18:17:37 something else, the alcohol dries up?
18:17:41 >>> Let me answer that in two parts.

18:17:42 First of all the state has preempted all local
18:17:45 government from trying -- from local government's
18:17:48 ability to tie alcoholic beverage regulations to a
18:17:52 person or to a YCC so every time the property is sold,
18:17:58 City Council doesn't have the ability to require
18:17:59 someone to come back to City Council for sell of
18:18:05 alcoholic beverages. What City Council has done in
18:18:07 prior cases is tied the condition, their wet zoning or
18:18:10 their -- the privilege to sell alcoholic beverages in
18:18:13 the city to a specific use, such as a restaurant.
18:18:17 Therefore, if you are no longer doing a restaurant,
18:18:20 you would no longer be able to sell your alcoholic
18:18:22 beverages because would you not be in compliance with
18:18:24 your special use permit.
18:18:26 >> Along those same lines, the City Council, does the
18:18:30 petition very to create and say, I accept, I want to
18:18:33 do these uses, and if I don't use it for that, you
18:18:36 know, I'm out of business.
18:18:40 Is it our right or only their right to bring into the
18:18:43 record that they want a condition on that property?
18:18:45 >>> The applicant would have to either propose or
18:18:48 agree to the condition, because had their application

18:18:53 voted up or down.
18:18:55 You as City Council would have the opportunity to deny
18:18:57 the application.
18:19:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
18:19:02 I appreciate it.
18:19:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
18:19:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a few small points, Cathy.
18:19:09 On the four-foot walkway, when did that -- between
18:19:14 workshop and now?
18:19:15 >>> No, that was in the initial draft. That was
18:19:17 transmitted for the July 15th cut-off from solid
18:19:20 waste.
18:19:21 >> Did we discuss it, do you recall?
18:19:23 >>> Yes, it went through each provision.
18:19:25 They haven't been present explained one way or the
18:19:30 other.
18:19:30 >> I didn't understand what the origin was and it
18:19:32 seems to be countered we are trying to do less paving
18:19:35 and more pervious and it just seems like -- I don't
18:19:38 really get why we would be going that direction.
18:19:40 >> I think that came from them to us.
18:19:44 Came from neighborhoods.

18:19:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The other question is, I hesitate
18:19:51 to mention this but on the vendor -- and I know you
18:19:54 put a lot of work into it with legal -- but a good
18:19:59 friend, is it Hakeem up there in Seminole Heights?
18:20:05 Is that Seminole Heights, Tampa Heights?
18:20:07 >>> Tampa Heights.
18:20:10 West Tampa-ish.
18:20:11 >> He's been doing that on the same location for,
18:20:13 what, 15, 20 years or something like that.
18:20:17 What would the impact of this be on somebody like him?
18:20:24 >>> Well, it tough to answer because it's really
18:20:26 debatable.
18:20:28 Actually legal.
18:20:29 >> It what?
18:20:30 >>> It debatable whether or not he's actually legal on
18:20:33 that property.
18:20:37 He obviously doesn't need the type of regulation for
18:20:40 the type of cart he's supposed to have.
18:20:41 Most of the carts, as you can see from the certain
18:20:44 designs, are in here.
18:20:46 He is not set back at the right location.
18:20:50 >> I mean, let cut to the chase.

18:20:52 I looked at the pictures and clearly he's not going to
18:20:55 comply right now.
18:20:56 But is there a grandfathering provision or anything
18:20:58 like that, Julia?
18:21:05 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
18:21:06 If he doesn't comply with the current code as it
18:21:09 stands today he doesn't have a right to grandfathering
18:21:11 status.
18:21:12 I mean, I don't know that if he complies with this
18:21:15 individual comprises the criteria or not, and whether
18:21:19 or not there is any kind of action against that
18:21:20 property, being at that location or not.
18:21:23 But if he is legally allowed to be there today, we can
18:21:27 probably make some determination that he's
18:21:30 grandfathered.
18:21:30 So without that there is no ability to grandfather an
18:21:34 illegal use.
18:21:37 >>MARY MULHERN: John, maybe you could do "Paint Your
18:21:39 Heart Out."
18:21:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Any on the questions by council
18:21:44 members?
18:21:45 Mrs. Saul-Sena.

18:21:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I wanted to provide a letter
18:21:48 explanation about the waterfront, setbacks, if you all
18:21:50 want to hold that you can but it came from a number of
18:21:53 property owners in Sulphur Springs, Seminole Heights,
18:21:55 and the neighborhood where Riverside terrace is,
18:22:01 Riverside Heights, where they wanted that degree of
18:22:04 protection.
18:22:05 That's what sparked it.
18:22:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
18:22:11 wants to speak on number 4?
18:22:13 Do you want to speak on number 4?
18:22:14 Please come up and speak.
18:22:18 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
18:22:19 I know you only opened 4 but I think talking on all
18:22:23 the changes it's really 3, 4.
18:22:25 It's really all of those.
18:22:26 Or we separated them into separate ordinances but it's
18:22:28 really all of the issues raised.
18:22:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Now you want me to open 3 and do 3?
18:22:36 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question before --
18:22:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, there are three separate public
18:22:40 hearings.

18:22:40 Do we take them -- I believe it would be appropriate
18:22:42 to take them separately, council.
18:22:47 >>> I'll leave that to council's discretion.
18:22:49 The way Cathy presented, she didn't just present the
18:22:52 items on item 4.
18:22:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: My understanding is it's either going
18:22:57 to have to be continued.
18:22:58 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Item 3, I didn't technically
18:23:02 discuss item 3 because item 3 is really a big long
18:23:05 striking of those provisions of chapter 3.
18:23:08 If someone wants to speak to striking those portions
18:23:10 of chapter 3, they certainly can.
18:23:13 Item 4 are the provisions, the general amendments to
18:23:15 chapter 27.
18:23:17 Item 5 is broken out into a couple different
18:23:22 ordinances for adoption.
18:23:24 Item 5 is simply the uses.
18:23:29 Item 6 is the alcoholic beverages moving into the
18:23:33 special use criteria.
18:23:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Are you going to speak to any on the
18:23:38 ones?
18:23:38 >>> I did lump those three together.

18:23:40 I didn't really speak to item 3.
18:23:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you want to take item 3?
18:23:44 >>> It's really unnecessary.
18:23:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Open 3 and then speak on 3 and 4 at the
18:23:48 same time.
18:23:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to open 3, 4, 5 and 6.
18:23:58 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a question.
18:24:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Open it up first.
18:24:02 >>MARY MULHERN: No, this was before we even opened the
18:24:06 public hearing.
18:24:06 I had a question about Linda.
18:24:08 When you were saying about the neighborhood and the
18:24:10 river overlay, were you saying that they asked for
18:24:13 this new code?
18:24:15 >> Yes.
18:24:16 >>MARY MULHERN: You weren't here, but there also was a
18:24:19 letter from someone who wasn't ready to do this.
18:24:22 And I think they may not -- neighborhoods, there are
18:24:27 some questions from other neighborhood.
18:24:28 So it may not be something we want to go forward.
18:24:35 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion to open item 3, 4, 5,
18:24:38 6 and 7.

18:24:39 All in favor say Aye.
18:24:40 When you come up to speak, let us know which item you
18:24:43 are speaking on.
18:24:44 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7.
18:24:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Not number 7, I don't believe.
18:24:49 Just 3, 4, 5 and 6.
18:24:50 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
18:24:51 3, 4, 5, 6.
18:24:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And how many minutes per speaker,
18:24:55 Madam Chairman of?
18:24:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Three minutes.
18:24:58 Let us know which one you are speaking on.
18:25:00 >> Margaret Vizzi, 213 south Sherill.
18:25:07 If I want to speak to each one individually, I was
18:25:09 told because we were just rolling chapter 3 into 27,
18:25:12 that it would refer to all of them.
18:25:14 So that's where I'm coming from.
18:25:16 And I'm speaking for Tampa homeowners.
18:25:20 We did meet way early on with Cathy.
18:25:23 And we have had meetings and continue to follow the
18:25:29 updates.
18:25:31 We do agree basically with the majority of the

18:25:35 recommended changes, particularly the vendors, because
18:25:39 that's been going on for a long time.
18:25:42 However, there are some concerns.
18:25:44 Very quickly the issue of the walkway between the
18:25:47 trash cans, we could not see where that was necessary.
18:25:52 So we would like you just to scratch that one.
18:25:55 The on the issue is with the crematoriums, zoning
18:26:02 that, but we would like to see not only be 500
18:26:06 district from historic district but from any
18:26:08 residential use, because, you know, you're taking care
18:26:11 of one section of the city, but the rest of us who
18:26:14 live in residential uses have a concern about them
18:26:18 starting to put them somewhere near residential.
18:26:21 So we would like to have those where it's -- those
18:26:26 words added "or residential use" to a historic
18:26:30 district and that's in 27-140.
18:26:32 The other issue, T.H.A.N. would really like to see our
18:26:35 wet zoning remain as one use -- I mean -- sorry, as
18:26:40 two uses, that they would come to you, if you decide
18:26:44 to allow the large venues, we in Beach Park speak to
18:26:53 both, have a concern about Westshore plaza, as well as
18:27:03 Westshore Palms, and we are the two neighbor close to

18:27:06 Westshore mall, and within being within that 250 feet,
18:27:11 I understood that at least one neighborhood would get
18:27:16 notice so we would at least have concern about it so
18:27:19 we would have great concerns about Westshore plaza
18:27:21 being thrown in with the International Plaza.
18:27:28 If indeed you leave that, leave a footnote in the
18:27:32 table that says it could only be an S-1 if it's a
18:27:37 restaurant use and not a bar, I'll give you the
18:27:40 example.
18:27:41 We were here not long ago with a bar that we had a
18:27:44 problem with at Westshore.
18:27:46 We were all willing to give him a restaurant.
18:27:48 So please look at putting that footnote on that table
18:27:54 E-41.
18:28:02 Very quickly.
18:28:03 The bonus provisions I specifically talked with Cathy
18:28:06 about that, and she said that would only be in the
18:28:08 downtown area.
18:28:10 And we have a concern in the residential neighborhoods
18:28:15 in the R-10, down and lower, about any increased
18:28:19 density, bonus density.
18:28:23 So we do have a concern about that.

18:28:25 And that overall has concerns with that.
18:28:31 The waterfront, there is a concern with that, and I
18:28:36 hope that you will postpone that.
18:28:41 And I think I have covered everything I had to.
18:28:46 And I need to take a breath.
18:28:48 But anyway, a great concern is the crematorium and
18:28:54 their proximity to density, bonus density, and going
18:28:58 to S-1.
18:29:01 We would like to see those wet zonings come to
18:29:04 council, all of them, particularly, as I said, at
18:29:10 least change that to an R-classification if you do go
18:29:15 with S-1 in any of those.
18:29:19 Thank you.
18:29:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
18:29:21 Next speaker.
18:29:21 >>> Eddie Diaz, American Legion Post 248, a nonprofit.
18:29:26 I apologize for not getting involved with this sooner
18:29:28 but unfortunately I have been reopening what I call a
18:29:34 dead hall for the last year and a half B.two months
18:29:36 ago we are starting to get more and more rentals.
18:29:39 Rentals are what the nonprofits survive on nowadays.
18:29:42 We have been in an existing facility that's been there

18:29:44 50 years, right next to West Tampa little league on
18:29:47 Jamaica street.
18:29:50 I'm getting a lot of activities.
18:29:51 And because we can't legally sell liquor, or beer or
18:29:56 anything like that.
18:29:57 If you notice to be competitive in the marketplace we
18:29:59 basically let them come for free.
18:30:02 So we are going to start the process to get a wet
18:30:06 zoning.
18:30:06 But then this transpires.
18:30:07 And I said there was a lot of issues that I would like
18:30:10 to address.
18:30:10 I sent an e-mail to I believe everyone and the mayor
18:30:13 requesting that one issue be resolved which had
18:30:16 nothing to do with this.
18:30:17 But I will point out a couple of things after
18:30:19 reviewing a synopsis thanks to -- I was able to get a
18:30:24 synopsis of this bill.
18:30:25 One of the things, that meets the general criteria,
18:30:29 promote public health, safety and general welfare,
18:30:33 complying with regulations and will not encourage
18:30:36 incompatibilities.

18:30:37 He have been here 50 years.
18:30:39 I can't replace a 7,000 square foot building with the
18:30:42 parking for what the value of the residential market
18:30:46 is.
18:30:46 We want to take responsibility.
18:30:48 We're not trying to shirk our responsibility.
18:30:50 But the only way we survive is off of being able to
18:30:54 service the weddings and those kind of things that we
18:30:58 service for the community.
18:30:59 We also have functions in West Tampa.
18:31:02 We do the American Legion baseball program for the
18:31:04 whole state of Florida out of it. There's a lot of
18:31:06 purposes that go out of that building, and the only
18:31:07 way we survive is not by members anymore.
18:31:11 Because out of 58 members, which is all I have now, 45
18:31:14 are over the age of 80. Nonprofits need to be
18:31:22 addressed in a different fashion.
18:31:24 I'm not giving a solution.
18:31:25 I'm willing to help study the solution.
18:31:27 But it's not addressed in here.
18:31:29 I want to point out the thousand foot distance.
18:31:32 We can't meet that.

18:31:33 It's impossible.
18:31:34 I'm across from Lily Park, using up the facility for
18:31:37 fund-raising.
18:31:37 They want us to be able to do that.
18:31:39 So again that's just an issue.
18:31:41 Nonprofit.
18:31:42 You say that the three times a year. But there's a
18:31:43 problem.
18:31:45 I have a 7,000 square foot facility.
18:31:47 One of the questions I want clarified, is it seating
18:31:51 capacity?
18:31:55 Because my seating is 199.
18:31:58 So again, there's some clarity that needs to be
18:32:01 addressed on, on seating capacity.
18:32:03 One of the problems with the three times a year, and
18:32:06 as Mr. Miranda pointed out, yes, we can have other
18:32:10 nonprofits going there.
18:32:11 The problem is, I can buy $3,000 and that's 12 months.
18:32:16 Every event costs me $600.
18:32:18 So when I do three events, it's becoming cost
18:32:22 prohibitive.
18:32:23 So it makes more sense to study this issue and come up

18:32:26 with a solution that makes sense.
18:32:27 We want to be responsible.
18:32:29 If we have an event and there's a problem, there
18:32:31 should be only one person to talk to and that's us.
18:32:34 But technically when I rent a facility I turn it over
18:32:39 to them.
18:32:41 If they are the ones I can't control, I have to say,
18:32:43 hey, you can't control your liquors, then you are
18:32:45 going to have to go.
18:32:46 It's just a lot more headache.
18:32:47 We would rather have our own way of controlling things
18:32:50 and only require our people to do it.
18:32:52 And we feel out very important that if the wet zoning
18:32:56 doesn't go, it needs to go.
18:32:58 Okay?
18:32:59 I totally agree with that.
18:33:00 And the last thing I just want to point out is that
18:33:03 it's very, very important that you understand, we are
18:33:05 not interested in hurting the community.
18:33:08 We are there trying to build up a profit, some way of
18:33:11 giving back to the community.
18:33:13 And we need your help.

18:33:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
18:33:15 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Madam Chairman?
18:33:18 Sir, if government ran a businesslike you do, we
18:33:20 wouldn't have a problem.
18:33:21 But that's why we have a lot of problems in
18:33:23 government.
18:33:24 Because I've heard people say, you can't run a
18:33:26 government like a business.
18:33:28 All right.
18:33:28 And I disagree with them.
18:33:30 And I commend you.
18:33:32 >>> Thank you.
18:33:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
18:33:33 Next.
18:33:37 >>> Good evening.
18:33:39 Desiree Valdes, west Indiana Avenue, president of
18:33:43 Riverside Heights civic association.
18:33:45 On behalf of my neighbors this evening, I'm asking
18:33:48 that you hold the item 27-77 on the waterfront lot
18:33:55 regulations.
18:33:56 One of my neighbors has brought this up to us, and
18:34:01 apparently, I brought it up last night at a T.H.A.N.

18:34:04 meeting, and Randy Barron was president and several
18:34:08 other presidents were there that are directly affected
18:34:11 on the river, have no idea that this is even coming
18:34:16 up.
18:34:18 So we just want more time on it.
18:34:21 We want to know what it about, why it was brought up,
18:34:23 why it started at Columbus drive, who made that
18:34:26 decision there.
18:34:29 I don't know if it because the riverwalk stopped there
18:34:32 or why.
18:34:33 But just those interesting things that we kind of just
18:34:37 want some more time on, to research it.
18:34:40 T.H.A.N. has not had a chance to research it either.
18:34:43 So we would just like that item pulled from the
18:34:46 chapter.
18:34:47 We appreciate it.
18:34:48 Thank you.
18:34:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
18:34:49 Next.
18:34:52 >>> Susan long, 921 east broad street, president of
18:34:55 the Old Seminole Heights civic association.
18:34:58 A couple of things.

18:34:59 Many of which are have already been stated.
18:35:02 27-140, crematoriums, we would like them 500 feet from
18:35:06 any residential area, not just historic residential
18:35:09 areas.
18:35:09 Many of us are in the process of becoming historic
18:35:12 residential areas.
18:35:13 Potentially put next to them and next week, what, they
18:35:18 are going to remove it?
18:35:19 I don't think so.
18:35:20 30-foot waterfront setbacks, one of the issues that we
18:35:22 have in Old Seminole Heights, a lot of waterfront
18:35:25 property on the river.
18:35:27 One of the issues we have is the older homes are not
18:35:30 necessarily built up by that.
18:35:31 But it is my understanding that if they wanted to put
18:35:35 an addition on the house even on the non-waterfront
18:35:37 side that would trigger having come current code.
18:35:42 There's no way they can move the house.
18:35:43 I think those questions need to be addressed.
18:35:46 The four-foot wide paved path for your solid waste is,
18:35:50 in my mind, insane.
18:35:52 Most of my neighbors do not have a paved path.

18:35:57 In their driveway to get their trash from the house to
18:35:59 the street, but to make them put one in just doesn't
18:36:02 make a lot of sense.
18:36:04 Parking variances only for buildings older than 1988.
18:36:08 Even though most of our buildings are older than that,
18:36:11 I don't understand why 1988 was the magic year. Our
18:36:14 building is newer than that.
18:36:19 Many may request a parking variance. Categorically
18:36:21 ruled that out.
18:36:21 Doesn't seem very logical to me.
18:36:23 As far as the wet zoning, we would like all wet zoning
18:36:28 to have public hearings.
18:36:30 We had as you well know many items come before you
18:36:32 where we opposed the wet zoning for a variety of
18:36:35 reasons.
18:36:37 Usually we win.
18:36:38 But to have them come in without having no input at
18:36:41 all, we find very uncomfortable.
18:36:46 So, mainly, we want all of those to become public
18:36:52 hearings.
18:36:52 And the other thing is, we would like the thousand
18:36:57 foot spread from churches to remain.

18:37:03 Thank you.
18:37:04 Next speaker.
18:37:08 >>> I'm going to turn this in when I'm done but it's
18:37:13 nice to see both the neighborhoods and the builders
18:37:15 agree on so many issues, across the board on this.
18:37:18 I am going to go very quickly because there's quite a
18:37:20 number of tabs with questions.
18:37:23 Tab one, the four-foot walkways, that needs to be
18:37:27 stricken.
18:37:27 You are going to have thousands of PDs coming in.
18:37:30 Everyone is going to be first.
18:37:33 Tab 2.
18:37:34 I had a question on the affordable housing, can be
18:37:37 monitored for 30 years.
18:37:38 We all know the usual you of monitoring something just
18:37:40 on two years on Howard Avenue.
18:37:41 I'm really curious to see how the city is going to
18:37:44 monitor something for 30 years.
18:37:46 Tab 6, usually the city language in these code
18:37:50 sections talk about substantial applications.
18:37:53 Nothing was in there about that.
18:37:55 And I don't know.

18:37:59 I would suggest tab 8, exactly what Susan was saying.
18:38:07 I think it should really be for all buildings.
18:38:19 All residential, tab 12, is a vendor regulation.
18:38:23 My only concern about that is that so many vendors out
18:38:25 there, and I am just wondering what's going to happen
18:38:27 when you throw that many people out of their drive.
18:38:30 I don't know exactly where they are going to go.
18:38:34 I doubt they are down here but it was just a concern
18:38:36 of mine.
18:38:37 Tab 13, this is administrative determination, for
18:38:42 temporary wet zonings.
18:38:45 I think that it should also, even if you file late, it
18:38:48 should be something that can be handled
18:38:50 administratively.
18:38:50 Let them pay a triple fee or something else, doesn't
18:38:53 come before council.
18:38:54 You can free up the schedule.
18:38:55 Finally, 27-272, the large venue, I don't understand
18:39:01 why we are getting it a competitive advantage just to
18:39:04 one or two pieces of property.
18:39:06 I don't think that's right.
18:39:07 I think basically you could end up creating another

18:39:11 Ybor.
18:39:12 You know, they can put in whatever wet zone things
18:39:14 they want up there.
18:39:15 I really think that the rules apply to everybody
18:39:19 equally throughout the entire city.
18:39:20 And I also was at the T.H.A.N. meeting last night and
18:39:23 I agree that as it relates to -- and I forgot the
18:39:27 number -- tab 11 on the riverfront that the just be
18:39:31 pulled temporarily so have been can wrap their hands
18:39:33 around it.
18:39:33 It goes passed around and it's a property rights
18:39:38 issue.
18:39:38 And I'll turn in the summary sheet so you have it.
18:39:41 Thank you.
18:39:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
18:39:43 >> Gary Brown, 491 SAVERN Avenue, I own property on
18:39:52 the Hillsborough River at west charter, regarding the
18:39:56 four foot sidewalk I think everybody is in agreement
18:39:59 but that's probably going to come out tonight.
18:40:00 The builders association did in fact meet with staff
18:40:03 last year, and we made a recommendation then that it
18:40:07 made no sense.

18:40:08 It was not conducive to affordable housing or green
18:40:13 building practices.
18:40:18 So I'm a little concerned, especially when I hear that
18:40:23 it came from another department, and yet that
18:40:26 department never seems to show up.
18:40:29 So somebody needs to fix that.
18:40:32 Regarding the river issue, and because of my personal
18:40:37 involvement in the Tampa Bay builders association and
18:40:39 the governmental affairs committee, the issue of
18:40:45 waterfront lots came up last year, and when I inquired
18:40:49 to senior staff members where this was headed, I was
18:40:52 told on numerous occasions that there is going to be a
18:40:54 lot of discussion, that staff was going to reach out
18:40:57 to the neighborhoods, and that it was going to take
18:41:00 some time.
18:41:01 And I said, great.
18:41:02 Because I'm a property owner.
18:41:04 And I would like to be involved in that process.
18:41:07 So, again, once again, here we are.
18:41:09 When I started to inquire myself of other riverfront
18:41:12 property owners, I probably talked to a dozen in
18:41:16 Riverside Heights, Seminole Heights, West Tampa, and

18:41:20 Wellswood, nobody knew about this.
18:41:23 When I asked them to talk to their neighbors and call
18:41:25 me back, none of the neighbors knew about it.
18:41:29 So again, there's a problem with process.
18:41:31 Yes, the city did all of the legal notices.
18:41:34 We understand that.
18:41:34 But one thing that really got me concerned tonight was
18:41:38 in Ms. Coyle's presentation to you, she used the term
18:41:42 "overlay district."
18:41:45 Isn't the process to create an overlay district
18:41:47 different than this process?
18:41:49 Can I have an answer on that?
18:41:51 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
18:41:56 166 in the code provides the legal notice requirements
18:41:59 for amendments to the code, overlay district, et, and
18:42:03 those require newspaper notice, which we have provided
18:42:07 in this instance, pursuant to 166, and pursuant to
18:42:11 your code.
18:42:14 All the other things that Ms. Coyle is talking about
18:42:18 with the legal requirement is, it has been when this
18:42:21 process began for having the twice a year amendment
18:42:24 cycle, in order to provide more availability and time

18:42:27 between the start of an amendment, and the end of the
18:42:30 amendment, to see notice process is significant, I
18:42:35 think you need 30 days before the hearing, newspaper
18:42:38 notice, council agenda, and move forward, it was to
18:42:41 provide that process.
18:42:44 And so what staff does is they collect all of the
18:42:46 amendments at the beginning of the cycle as per code.
18:42:50 And from whomever they come from, privately initiated,
18:42:56 amendments which City Council has requested for zoning
18:42:59 administrator review and from on the departments.
18:43:01 Put them in a package, present it to you, present it
18:43:04 to the public.
18:43:04 We have workshops with you.
18:43:06 We have workshops with the public to let them know
18:43:08 what is happening.
18:43:10 Zoning administrator doesn't have the authority to
18:43:12 say, well, I am not going to process this or I am not
18:43:15 going to take this out because I agree or disagree
18:43:17 with it.
18:43:18 It is a process thing.
18:43:19 Ultimately, that's why we are here.
18:43:20 We get in N front of City Council on the public

18:43:23 hearing and you make the policy call as to whether or
18:43:24 not these amendments are appropriate or not.
18:43:27 However, there have been opportunities previous to
18:43:30 raise these types of issues, and to see if whether or
18:43:33 not City Council wants to advise staff whether or not
18:43:38 to move forward with certain amendments.
18:43:40 So there is both the legal process and the process
18:43:44 followed here.
18:43:44 >>MARY MULHERN: Julia, I didn't really hear an answer
18:43:49 to the question, though.
18:43:50 About the overlay process.
18:43:52 >>JULIA COLE: I thought I answered at the beginning.
18:43:54 This has been a legislative process.
18:43:56 Overlays are legislative processes.
18:43:58 There is no difference between calling something an
18:44:01 overlay and going through an amendment process than
18:44:04 there is for any other change to chapter 27.
18:44:11 And in fact there is one time you have to provide for
18:44:13 additional notification, which is two newspaper
18:44:17 notices as opposed to one newspaper notice, and that
18:44:20 is when you change the table of uses.
18:44:22 So we have done all of that.

18:44:24 We have done the double notice from the newspaper for
18:44:27 the change of the table which is one of the ordinances
18:44:30 you have, as well as the newspaper notice required by
18:44:32 law.
18:44:33 Because it's an overlay, that's no different.
18:44:37 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, maybe, Ms. Cole -- that's the
18:44:42 problem, because I thought I heard you say that, too,
18:44:45 overlay.
18:44:45 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
18:44:48 I said in the beginning the discussion was to develop
18:44:50 an overlay for Hillsborough River and then that was
18:44:53 backed down to looking at the setback requirements of
18:44:55 how buildings are placed.
18:44:56 The initial direction from council was to do an
18:44:59 overlay.
18:45:02 But looking at it and looking at the development
18:45:04 patterns after we took those boat trips, they are
18:45:07 completely different up the river.
18:45:08 The motion from council was to do it from Columbus
18:45:10 north to the dam.
18:45:11 I was simply taking direction.
18:45:14 I don't make this up.

18:45:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have to say that this process is
18:45:21 so long that I have forgotten that this hadn't
18:45:24 happened yet.
18:45:25 Because I didn't invite the people who asked in the
18:45:28 first place to come.
18:45:29 I had a chance to speak with Ms. Valdez.
18:45:32 We will have a meeting.
18:45:33 We will go over it.
18:45:34 Maybe we will actually go up the river again and look
18:45:36 at what this would mean.
18:45:38 And there was no disrespect to anyone.
18:45:40 It's one of the challenges with this whole process, is
18:45:43 that you come up with an idea one part of the year,
18:45:47 and then you have a meeting, and then they draw
18:45:50 something up, and then it comes back.
18:45:52 It's such a long iterative process it really is
18:45:55 challenging to keep track of the whole thing, which
18:45:57 you think is hard for staff, it's hard for the
18:45:59 citizens, and it's hard for council members.
18:46:02 There are so many moving parts.
18:46:05 >>> Rebecca Yebba here on behalf of cremation center
18:46:11 of Tampa Bay.

18:46:12 I have been here before, all of you, from a long time
18:46:16 ago, and I was surprised to find out just yesterday
18:46:18 that there was discussion coming up again about the
18:46:21 crematories.
18:46:22 I did draft a letter which was sent to each of you by
18:46:25 e-mail.
18:46:26 I don't know whether all of you got a chance to read
18:46:28 it or not.
18:46:28 But really what I'm here for today is to ask that the
18:46:31 discussion regarding the proposed amendment be delayed
18:46:34 for a later time.
18:46:35 I would actually like for to the go back to the
18:46:37 department that drafted it so that the crematories may
18:46:41 be involved in the process of proposing those
18:46:43 amendments as well.
18:46:45 I spoke with the other crematory operator within the
18:46:48 City of Tampa.
18:46:49 He had no knowledge of this either.
18:46:50 He actually was the one that pulled up yesterday when
18:46:53 he found out that this meeting was going to occur, and
18:46:56 that these amendments were being proposed.
18:46:57 It important to have both sides of the discussion

18:46:59 involved in that.
18:47:01 In fact I can tell by reading the language that this
18:47:04 must have been written awhile ago, and unfortunately
18:47:10 it's been based on uninformed information.
18:47:13 We met with the EPC for months and with the community
18:47:15 residents near the historic district of Ybor, and
18:47:20 after much discussion and much education, they came up
18:47:23 with proposed amendments for their area.
18:47:27 And both sides were very happy with.
18:47:28 And I feel like the community left understanding that
18:47:32 crematories are cleaner than restaurants, you know.
18:47:34 We have been operating for months.
18:47:36 And nobody has really noticed that we were even there
18:47:39 except for a light being on in the building
18:47:41 occasionally.
18:47:42 You know, we are a very unobtrusive company, business,
18:47:47 and want to have opportunity to participate in the
18:47:50 process, since these regulations will greatly impact
18:47:54 my family's ability to continue their business and
18:47:56 operate.
18:47:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
18:48:04 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: My address is suite 3700 Bank of

18:48:09 America Plaza.
18:48:12 I would like to speak on the wet zoning changes from
18:48:15 chapter 3 to chapter 27.
18:48:19 Much of your daily labor in this chamber is wet
18:48:22 zonings.
18:48:23 And if you look at page 14 on the ordinance proposed
18:48:30 under item number 6, there are two definitions for
18:48:35 alcoholic beverage sales.
18:48:36 One is called large venue.
18:48:37 One is called small venue.
18:48:41 And the breakoff point is 200 persons.
18:48:44 I can't visualize 200 persons in a restaurant.
18:48:49 This is part of the difficulty I think in the
18:48:51 ordinance and I'm a little bit rusty on it also.
18:48:53 I haven't quite paid attention since last fall.
18:48:55 But I think if you are going to postpone this for
18:48:58 awhile, I think it's incumbent upon you to ask the
18:49:02 staff to analyze a 150-seat restaurant and a 250-seat
18:49:07 restaurant, side by side, and explain what is the
18:49:11 process today under chapter 3 for applying, for
18:49:14 operating, for enforcing, and for revoking.
18:49:18 And what will be the process under chapter 27 for

18:49:21 again those four steps -- applying, operating,
18:49:24 enforcing, revoking.
18:49:26 And look at them in a column fashion, side by side,
18:49:29 and put yourself in the shoes of the regulated
18:49:31 industry.
18:49:32 And I think 150-person restaurant is probably fairly
18:49:36 common in this city.
18:49:37 You are going to see a bunch of those.
18:49:39 And I think it behooves you to understand how the new
18:49:42 process is going to work before one of them lands in
18:49:44 front of you in April or May and say, here we are
18:49:47 under the new process, but we already have this
18:49:50 glitch.
18:49:50 I'm not up to speed even to give legal advice on how
18:49:52 this will operate.
18:49:54 And as you as the folks that are going to prepare
18:49:58 legislation, I think it will be of benefit to
18:50:00 everybody to maybe wait about a month, come back and
18:50:03 show us how this is going to work, and also attach a
18:50:06 cost to it.
18:50:07 Not just filing fees but traffic studies, engineering
18:50:10 studies, what have you.

18:50:12 I certainly understand the large venue issue.
18:50:15 Because those are big operations like international
18:50:18 mall.
18:50:18 Let's talk about a basic restaurant, family
18:50:20 restaurant, to be on Busch Boulevard or south Dale
18:50:23 Mabry or Henderson Boulevard.
18:50:25 Having an impact them.
18:50:26 And let's figure that out before we get down the road
18:50:29 with an adopted ordinance and now we might have a
18:50:31 problem we didn't anticipate.
18:50:34 I suggest maybe a month to understand this.
18:50:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
18:50:38 Would anyone else like to speak?
18:50:42 >>> Council, if I may.
18:50:45 As I noted in the beginning, I believe the crematorium
18:50:55 discussion continues as well given the comments from
18:50:58 the crematorium industry.
18:50:59 As I noted previously this was a direction by council
18:51:01 to move these provisions, we discussed them numerous
18:51:05 times, and different meetings, and you have had the
18:51:09 residential component, even tonight say they wanted
18:51:12 language added to it.

18:51:13 But out of fairness, I think that's why I was
18:51:17 recommending to continue it, out of fairness, so that
18:51:19 each side can present the facts and related to their
18:51:22 industry and related to the neighborhood's concern.
18:51:27 Solid waste, I think we are all in agreement at this
18:51:29 point.
18:51:30 That came from a different agency so I have no stake
18:51:33 in that.
18:51:33 The waterfront lots also, I recommended in the
18:51:36 beginning that we want to continue that as well.
18:51:42 Looking at Ms. Vizzi's comments, the bonus density, I
18:51:48 want to clarify again, I don't remember telling her it
18:51:53 was for downtown.
18:51:53 I want it to be very clear, there are bonus density
18:51:56 provisions for the periphery around downtown.
18:51:58 That's the DVD periphery, the bonus criteria adopted
18:52:03 last year.
18:52:03 These set of bonus criteria are the standard criteria
18:52:08 for all land use in the city. This is not changing
18:52:10 the language or adding any new provisions to it.
18:52:13 It's simply clarifying a regulation that has been in
18:52:16 the code for the last 20 years.

18:52:18 It says area.
18:52:21 At the very median income instead of median income.
18:52:24 I want to clarify, this isn't something new.
18:52:28 Let's see.
18:52:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Where is that bonus?
18:52:33 I have been looking for it.
18:52:33 >> Right in front of you.
18:52:35 >> No, where is it in the code?
18:52:38 >>> Section 328.
18:52:44 I think as far as the -- Mr. Diaz talking about the
18:52:48 wet zoning issue, saying a thousand feet is too much,
18:52:53 we spent quite a few meetings with the T.H.A.N. zoning
18:52:57 committee as well as T.H.A.N. Rebecca and I attended a
18:53:01 couple of those meetings.
18:53:02 We also had the public workshop in the Mascotte room,
18:53:05 and we discussed in my opinion the wet zoning to
18:53:09 death.
18:53:10 The consensus was in the beginning, we did try to put
18:53:13 in different criteria to allow some to be
18:53:16 administrative, some to be public hearings, what's
18:53:19 accomplished out in the end was the thousand feet
18:53:21 needed to stay.

18:53:22 We initially had proposed a 300-person occupancy load,
18:53:27 which was based on we looked at the actual threshold
18:53:30 of these large venues versus small venues in Ybor,
18:53:33 downtown, and the different restaurant districts of
18:53:35 the city.
18:53:36 And we looked at a 300-person threshold.
18:53:39 I want to clarify, this is occupancy based on fire,
18:53:43 the safety code, fire code.
18:53:45 The 300 person occupancy in the building entirely.
18:53:48 That 300 threshold, that doesn't capture a lot.
18:53:52 Most everything is under 300.
18:53:53 Most of those restaurants are under 300.
18:53:55 There was a specific motion by council to reduce that
18:53:59 to 199.
18:54:01 So we came in with 300 and council directed to us pull
18:54:04 that down to 199.
18:54:05 That's the reason why under the circumstances so low.
18:54:12 Crematorium, waterfront setbacks.
18:54:14 The 1988 provision as far as parking waivers.
18:54:17 Nonconforming commercial lots.
18:54:20 And commercial buildings, are considered grandfathered
18:54:24 in 1988.

18:54:25 Zoning conformance started in 1986 and ran through
18:54:28 late 1987.
18:54:30 Those buildings as of January 1, 1988, those lots are
18:54:33 considered legal nonconforming and can be built on.
18:54:37 It just a threshold year from one code changing to the
18:54:40 next.
18:54:41 It's a policy decision.
18:54:42 If you all of a sudden want to say every building,
18:54:45 there's in a parking required for every building you
18:54:47 can certainly -- that's a much bigger discussion, I
18:54:50 think.
18:54:51 That we should have.
18:54:54 Let's see, I think that's really about it.
18:55:02 As far as the wet zoning issues, alcohol, beverage,
18:55:05 I'm really just looking for some policy clarification
18:55:08 on what distance separation we really want after
18:55:10 hearing the last few comments tonight.
18:55:12 If you want to reduce the 250 to zero for the mall, if
18:55:15 you want to change some of them, administrative versus
18:55:20 public hearings, change them all to public hearings,
18:55:22 I'm looking for your final direction on that.
18:55:24 I could make the changes for next week, if they are

18:55:26 minor.
18:55:27 That's in a problem.
18:55:28 If there's a public hearing next week I can make them
18:55:30 and bring them back based on the motions that you want
18:55:32 to do tonight.
18:55:33 I think the other one, as far as the waterfront lots
18:55:36 and the crematorium, I would say not among -- I think
18:55:41 we need to put them in the next cycle.
18:55:43 I think those are much bigger discussion that is we
18:55:46 need to have.
18:55:46 We are going to start doing the public workshops with
18:55:48 the new cycle coming up soon, and I think there's not
18:55:51 too much in that cycle.
18:55:52 I think just for the benefit of time and everything,
18:55:55 to really have a valid discussion that we would roll
18:55:57 those into the next cycle.
18:55:59 And that's about it.
18:56:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Cole, number had, do you want to
18:56:05 continue those?
18:56:06 >>> I would like a direction on what you would like me
18:56:08 to continue to next week, what you are willing to
18:56:10 adopt.

18:56:14 First
18:56:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to compliment Mrs.
18:56:19 Cole.
18:56:20 >>GWEN MILLER: First you need to close.
18:56:22 Do you want to close?
18:56:23 >> No.
18:56:24 I want to -- we might want to ask --
18:56:30 >>CATHERINE COYLE: You won't be closing anyway.
18:56:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe you are going to have to
18:56:34 continue.
18:56:34 You are going to have to change the title.
18:56:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And I don't want to close it in
18:56:38 case we need to ask staff some questions.
18:56:40 >>GWEN MILLER: We are on item 4.
18:56:42 >> Well, 3 we are just deleting.
18:56:49 >> Don't delete 3 because that actually strikes
18:56:54 chapter 3.
18:56:54 Don't read it yet.
18:56:55 We are going to wind up continuing 3.
18:56:59 >>CHAIRMAN: Continue 3, 4, and what about 5 and 6?
18:57:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have to go through -- move to
18:57:05 continue item 3 till next week.

18:57:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Get a second?
18:57:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is that chapter 3?
18:57:14 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
18:57:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Discussion after the second.
18:57:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
18:57:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would say there's probably a
18:57:24 hundred individuals, good citizens City of Tampa, I
18:57:27 would imagine.
18:57:28 I don't know if they understand everything we said.
18:57:31 I don't know if I understand everything we said.
18:57:34 Because when you start 3, 4, 5 and 6, and you take out
18:57:38 the vendors, you take out the crematory, you take out
18:57:43 chapter this, chapter that, what do we have left?
18:57:47 >>> There's not that much that you are actually taking
18:57:49 out.
18:57:51 13.
18:57:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: After we go through it we can
18:57:56 follow up.
18:57:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We have a dozen that are waiting.
18:58:01 What I would prefer to see instead of us going
18:58:04 through -- because after awhile, people sit up there
18:58:08 with three minutes and they reel off ten items and I

18:58:12 couldn't keep up with their comment.
18:58:14 So I think what I would rather see us do is, I'm sorry
18:58:18 to put this on your shoulder, Cathy, but if you take a
18:58:21 look back at this transcript to see what the issues
18:58:24 that they raised and then bring those back to us in a
18:58:27 week or so, with the siding points.
18:58:32 And Mr. Diaz raised these points.
18:58:35 Do you want to go this way?
18:58:36 Do you want to go this way?
18:58:38 You know, Ms. Vizzi raised these points.
18:58:40 Do you want to go this way, do you want to go that
18:58:43 way?
18:58:43 It can be a little more methodical.
18:58:45 I'm usually pretty good at this but I started getting
18:58:48 totally lost and I don't want to do that helter
18:58:50 skelter because it's such a big package.
18:58:52 I would rather us do it a little more methodically in
18:58:55 a week or so, you know, with the decision points, like
18:58:58 we did earlier with the green ordinance.
18:59:05 >>> If you want to continue this to next week I can
18:59:08 certainly pull out the transcript and go through very
18:59:10 methodically and tell how said what and what decisions

18:59:13 you need to make.
18:59:14 There are about at least six to seven tabs that were
18:59:18 not discussed at all because they were corrections to
18:59:20 the code.
18:59:21 If you don't mind, next week if we continue it I can
18:59:23 bring back those separate ordinances just for those
18:59:26 pieces.
18:59:27 And then I'll methodically list out what everybody
18:59:29 else discussed.
18:59:31 And then option A, option B, option A, option B, and
18:59:35 figure out from there.
18:59:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's continues item 3 through 6 till
18:59:40 next week.
18:59:44 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: On that subject, I am not going
18:59:45 to be here next week and I would like to participate
18:59:47 on this, being a new member of the council.
18:59:50 Mr. Dingfelder has been here four years and he didn't
18:59:52 understand it.
18:59:53 So I have been here eight months and I don't
18:59:54 understand it.
18:59:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you like to do it for two weeks?
19:00:00 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Our next regular meeting at night

19:00:02 or whenever you would like to have it.
19:00:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Caetano, the things that were
19:00:08 not controversial were just like insert ago word or
19:00:11 technical can things K.we move ahead and say anything
19:00:14 that involved a lot of discussion for when you get
19:00:16 back?
19:00:16 What I was going to suggest is that Ms. Coyle prepped
19:00:20 individual council members maybe to give them some of
19:00:23 the background on some of these before comes back
19:00:26 before us all.
19:00:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I have a question, council.
19:00:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby.
19:00:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I just want to understand for myself
19:00:36 and clear for council.
19:00:39 By pulling that out does that remain all of the
19:00:41 remaining items will wait till next cycle and um just
19:00:43 go forward?
19:00:44 >>GWEN MILLER: No.
19:00:45 Bring it back next week.
19:00:47 Bring them back next week.
19:00:48 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I think there are a couple of items
19:00:51 that move to the next cycle.

19:00:52 Crematoriums and waterfront lots need to move to the
19:00:56 next cycle.
19:00:57 I think we are at a point where there's about six tabs
19:01:00 that were just corrections, that really weren't a big
19:01:03 deal that could move forward.
19:01:04 And I think there is definitely the alcohol and the
19:01:06 vendors that we need to get definite policy direction
19:01:10 on, what we are going to do.
19:01:11 We can either discuss that next week or discuss that
19:01:14 next month. It's up to you how you want to do that.
19:01:16 I'm seeing three different things here.
19:01:18 One, correction, just adopt them and get them out of
19:01:22 the way.
19:01:23 The next big directions to move into the next cycle to
19:01:26 have more public meetings on.
19:01:27 And then the two that we really discussed a lot that
19:01:31 need follow direction on we can deal with in the next
19:01:33 month or so.
19:01:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we can get moving, it is 7:00,
19:01:38 Valentine's night.
19:01:40 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Hear hear.
19:01:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And we are going to be here till 1:00

19:01:46 in the morning.
19:01:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, we aren't.
19:01:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The two items we need to move to the
19:01:52 next cycle -- why don't we go ahead and dispose those?
19:01:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
19:01:56 Move the --
19:02:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Crematory.
19:02:03 >> And the riverfront to the next cycle.
19:02:05 (Motion carried).
19:02:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Eliminate the trash can pads.
19:02:11 The four-foot walkway in front of the trash cans.
19:02:14 >> Second.
19:02:15 (Motion carried).
19:02:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move the six things that were just
19:02:22 language clean-up to next week.
19:02:24 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I can tell you what they are really
19:02:28 quick.
19:02:29 Tab 3, the regulations, how they are processed, zoning
19:02:34 administrator versus director.
19:02:36 Tab 4, adding zoning administrator for certification
19:02:39 of the site plan.
19:02:43 Tab 5, noting that it's not the VRB but it's the City

19:02:50 Council.
19:02:50 Tab 6, clarification of the appeal process which
19:02:53 breaks down you being able to -- you don't have to
19:02:56 remand back to the VRB twice.
19:02:59 You can redo it once.
19:03:04 Tab 7, clarifying the CBD design guidelines for open
19:03:08 space and parking allowances.
19:03:12 Tab 8, senior housing one space per unit.
19:03:15 And the clarification that is medical use that can
19:03:17 receive the parking waiver.
19:03:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You have six.
19:03:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And adding two other kinds of
19:03:28 trees.
19:03:29 >>> Tab 9, yes.
19:03:31 And the rest of them would be moved.
19:03:33 The other two, the vendors and the alcohol be moved
19:03:37 for one month.
19:03:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: All the ones except for the last
19:03:41 two you mentioned come back next week.
19:03:47 >>> Yes.
19:03:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we continue these?
19:03:49 >>> Continue till --

19:03:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Next week?
19:03:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And 9 with the trees, and 8.
19:03:58 Everything but the last two can come back next week.
19:04:04 Are you all clear?
19:04:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Continue these and --
19:04:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I was with her when she said 6.
19:04:14 If I'm wrong here.
19:04:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Cathy Coyle, what do we do with 3
19:04:20 through 6?
19:04:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We continued them to next week,
19:04:24 Madam Chairman, including item 9.
19:04:26 Why don't.
19:04:28 >>> Why don't you continue them all to next week?
19:04:30 And during the day I am going to come back and tell
19:04:32 you exactly what happened in the transcript.
19:04:34 And you can make your final motion.
19:04:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
19:04:38 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a question on the motion, Mr.
19:04:40 Shelby.
19:04:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Two things.
19:04:43 Number one is to address Mr. Caetano's concerns, so
19:04:46 Mr. Caetano knows, that there will only be five

19:04:49 members, at the most five members of council next
19:04:51 week.
19:04:51 That's number one.
19:04:53 And number two, I just want to be clear.
19:04:55 Things that are put off to the next cycle, when would
19:04:57 those be ultimately enacted on the code schedule?
19:05:01 >>> We are looking at probably late August, early
19:05:04 September, in the cycle.
19:05:05 The later this one gets delayed, it shifts a little
19:05:07 bit.
19:05:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I just want to remind council, based
19:05:11 on the crematorium discussion part of what it was
19:05:14 going to be was to move it out of commercial general
19:05:17 and into industrial general and I want council to be
19:05:21 aware of the ramifications of that, not that I have a
19:05:24 position, I just want council to know about it.
19:05:29 >>MARY MULHERN: We need to change the motion because
19:05:31 we weren't going to do it next week, we are going to
19:05:33 do it --
19:05:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: When is the next regular meeting?
19:05:38 Evening?
19:05:38 >>> It's up to you at this point.

19:05:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Two weeks?
19:05:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The 28th.
19:05:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The 28th.
19:05:46 >>> A regular meeting or workshop meeting?
19:05:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Evening.
19:05:56 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Could you too my proxy vote.
19:05:59 >> Where am gig to take it to, the crematory?
19:06:03 >> Moving item 8 through --
19:06:08 >>> no, everything.
19:06:10 no.
19:06:13 5:30 the 28th.
19:06:14 Any questions?
19:06:15 (Motion carried).
19:06:16 THE CLERK: I need a second on that motion.
19:06:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
19:06:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Now we go to item number 7.
19:06:22 Mrs. Saul-Sena, would you read that, please?
19:06:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move an ordinance for second
19:06:30 reading, an ordinance rezoning property in the general
19:06:32 vicinity of 5010 and 5018 --
19:06:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I'm sorry.
19:06:39 This is second reading so it has to be opened and

19:06:43 comments from the public.
19:06:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open item number 7.
19:06:47 >> Second.
19:06:48 (Motion carried).
19:06:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone in the public want to speak on
19:06:51 item number 7?
19:06:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, this is also quasi-judicial.
19:06:54 I believe --
19:06:57 >>GWEN MILLER: It doesn't say that.
19:06:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It does not but it is.
19:07:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone that's going to speak stand ands
19:07:05 raise your right hand.
19:07:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: On item 7.
19:07:07 >>GWEN MILLER: On item 7.
19:07:11 (Oath administered by Clerk).
19:07:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I ask that all written communications
19:07:19 relative to tonight's hearings which have been
19:07:20 available for public inspection in City Council's
19:07:22 office be received and filed into the record at this
19:07:24 time by motion, please.
19:07:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
19:07:28 All in favor say Aye.

19:07:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I don't want to read this.
19:07:32 >>GWEN MILLER: You are not going to read it.
19:07:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A reminder, if there's been any
19:07:39 ex parte communications please disclose the sum and
19:07:41 substance, that verbal communication occurred prior to
19:07:43 the vote.
19:07:44 Finally, ladies and gentlemen, there was a sign-in
19:07:47 sheet outside to sign in if you are going to speak to
19:07:49 remind you of council's rules and when you do testify,
19:07:52 please reaffirm for the record that you have been
19:07:54 sworn.
19:07:54 I am going to put a little sign on the lectern.
19:07:58 I thank you for your cooperation.
19:07:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone that's going to speak, would you
19:08:00 please line up and come up and speak?
19:08:02 You may start.
19:08:04 Petitioner, you may speak first.
19:08:08 >>> Good evening members of council.
19:08:20 My name is Bob Smith.
19:08:22 Liberty properties.
19:08:23 2200 Lucerne Way, Maitland, Florida.
19:08:28 I'm representing Liberty Properties.

19:08:31 I'm the director of development services.
19:08:33 I would like to very briefly review the background a
19:08:39 little bit, go through some of the neighborhood
19:08:41 meeting information, and I'm sure we have a lot of
19:08:45 discussion this evening.
19:08:46 So I will try to keep it brief.
19:08:48 I'm going to be using the overhead for some graphics.
19:08:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Lay it on there.
19:08:56 >>> Just briefly to identify where we are in the
19:09:00 community here, the yellow area is an overlay on an
19:09:07 aerial photograph.
19:09:08 You will see some rings on the photograph.
19:09:12 There's a 250, 750 and then a thousand on the outside.
19:09:20 That's for reference so you can see how close we are
19:09:25 in the neighborhood.
19:09:26 There are a couple of things I want to identify with
19:09:27 this is that we are on Columbus Avenue, on the -- on
19:09:32 this side.
19:09:33 51st on that side.
19:09:35 And that across the street is the commercial areas,
19:09:39 residential and surrounding, butting up against the
19:09:42 interstate.

19:09:44 As well as in proximity of the new Bypass.
19:09:51 One of the things I would like to bring up, we do have
19:09:54 a lot of neighbors we have talked with, and that will
19:09:57 be talking this evening.
19:09:58 I want to point out that we are on the edge of a
19:10:00 residential area that in fact we are zoned by right
19:10:03 for this where the building sits.
19:10:06 Our request this evening is for rezone and RS-50 to
19:10:17 PD.
19:10:18 The reason I say where building is, there's a line,
19:10:21 and I'll point it out.
19:10:28 That area is a commercial area.
19:10:30 The rest of it is the higher density zoned residential
19:10:32 area that encompasses the parking as well as the
19:10:38 ponding in the rear.
19:10:41 As you can see, we are trying to save the trees back
19:10:43 there.
19:10:47 Our building is situated on the old Bob Evans
19:10:51 restaurant that's been razed a number of years ago,
19:10:53 and the site has been vacant for a long time.
19:10:55 It's gone through a couple of different contract
19:10:58 purchasers.

19:11:00 And this evening we are presenting to you the rezoning
19:11:03 request.
19:11:03 I would also like to show you a couple of photographs.
19:11:11 Of our actual building that has been built in Orlando.
19:11:20 This is our building that we propose here.
19:11:22 This is exactly the view you will have, if you stand
19:11:26 on the Brocato sandwich shop, their front door of the
19:11:32 shop looking across the street.
19:11:33 The green area in front of you would be a parking area
19:11:35 but this is the image that you will get from that
19:11:38 location.
19:11:39 You can see it's a four-story building.
19:11:41 They have 121 rooms.
19:11:46 And it is frame built, all sprinkled so it satisfies
19:11:51 all fire protection, all building codes.
19:11:54 Another photograph is of the rear, as if you would be
19:11:58 driving around the rear driveway.
19:12:03 A little closer view for you that you can see the
19:12:08 actual color that we are proposing.
19:12:10 The asphalt shingle roof.
19:12:21 We had first reading and second reading.
19:12:27 At the second reading we have had quite a bit of

19:12:29 discussion, and recommendation that we go to a
19:12:33 neighborhood information meeting.
19:12:35 We in fact have done that.
19:12:37 We had that neighborhood information meeting on
19:12:41 January 30th.
19:12:51 We have had almost 50 people that showed up to the
19:12:54 meeting, local residents.
19:12:56 We have had other discussion was the Brocato's at
19:13:01 their sandwich shop and understood their concerns,
19:13:03 understood the neighbors concerns.
19:13:04 There's been a lot of good discussion.
19:13:06 But the meeting was almost a two-hour meeting.
19:13:09 We had a lot of dialogue back and forth, talking about
19:13:12 everything from safety to community to the building to
19:13:16 how we fit in, why we want to be there, our guest
19:13:21 profile.
19:13:21 But overwhelmingly, the concern was safety.
19:13:27 The whole area has been drawn between some of the
19:13:30 other hotels in the area that are dailies.
19:13:33 We are not a daily.
19:13:34 We are a weekly.
19:13:36 Our guests are weekly stay.

19:13:39 They generally pre-register.
19:13:41 We have very specific hours.
19:13:42 We have actually three staff members that live
19:13:46 on-site, so that there's always someone there at all
19:13:51 hours of the day and night to participate in watching
19:13:56 sites participate and registering guests, and anything
19:14:00 else.
19:14:03 We have had also a number of contacts with different
19:14:05 police agencies.
19:14:06 We have actually talked to the major at the local
19:14:10 precinct here, to identify ourselves, that we work
19:14:13 with their programs, work with the police departments,
19:14:17 and a lot of different programs.
19:14:19 I have a couple letters here that I would like to
19:14:21 identify.
19:14:21 One is from the police department, to identify that we
19:14:28 have participated, we have ongoing participation in
19:14:33 their drug -- in a drug program, the drug education
19:14:40 program.
19:14:42 We feel as though it's good to educate our managers,
19:14:44 our staff, and work with the police department.
19:14:46 This is one of the areas that in that location was

19:14:49 important.
19:14:50 I also have a letter here just recently received from
19:14:53 the sheriff of Leon county.
19:14:55 We have a couple of open hotels in Leon county.
19:15:04 Actually in Tallahassee.
19:15:05 Tallahassee, east and Tallahassee west, that are very
19:15:10 important properties for us.
19:15:12 There's something else that we have also discussed at
19:15:17 the neighborhood meeting was that we are owner
19:15:20 operated.
19:15:21 Our managers are employees of our hotel, we are the
19:15:31 franchisee.
19:15:33 We'll build about 120 of these nationally.
19:15:35 The franchisor is value place out of Tallahassee.
19:15:39 This particular building, I emphasized this with the
19:15:42 neighborhood also, is that this is really an $8
19:15:45 million investment in this location.
19:15:47 It's very important for us to be safe, to be part of
19:15:52 the community.
19:15:52 We are also going to generate and change residential
19:15:54 taxes here.
19:15:55 Currently there's taxes about $8,000 on that vacant

19:15:59 lot.
19:15:59 We are going to be increasing our real estate taxes to
19:16:01 about $140,000.
19:16:04 A significant increase to the local community.
19:16:11 One of the things also that I would emphasize in the
19:16:15 past as well as with the neighborhood to focus on
19:16:18 security, when our guests check in, they can't just
19:16:21 check in, they have to have a government-issued
19:16:24 identification.
19:16:25 That's actually scanned and checked against databases.
19:16:31 We have invested a significant amount of money.
19:16:33 We want to have good neighbors and good guests in our
19:16:37 hotels.
19:16:39 One of the things that was asked here, as well as at
19:16:41 the neighborhood meeting, was what's our guest
19:16:45 profile?
19:16:46 Well, I have some information that I would like to
19:16:48 share with you.
19:16:48 This is actually exit polls from the election.
19:16:54 Exit polls are important.
19:16:55 This is an estimated data.
19:16:58 This isn't inform that has been pros not indicated.

19:17:02 This is actual polls of tenants, guests that we have.
19:17:16 As you will see, our ages are between 25 and 54.
19:17:20 This is the norm at the top of the bell curve.
19:17:23 We have about 73% that have some college or are
19:17:27 totally college educated.
19:17:29 43% of our guests have an income of $50,000 or more.
19:17:39 The question was also asked, what's that makeup?
19:17:50 The makeup of our guests are about 25% skilled labor.
19:18:00 The skilled construction craftsmen, runs all the way
19:18:04 from managerial to technical to retired folks to
19:18:08 military, medical, in this particular area is 5%.
19:18:16 The retired area is 11%.
19:18:18 And we have "other" that's kind of a catch-all, retail
19:18:26 services, truck drivers, one percent government
19:18:29 people, which would be military, teachers, and the
19:18:33 like.
19:18:35 Also, the demographics of annual income, once again,
19:18:41 this is real evidence.
19:18:42 This is real, unlike a projection, that the greatest
19:18:50 amount of folks that lease our hotel as guests are
19:18:59 between 35 and 50,000.
19:19:03 About 23%.

19:19:05 As you can see, it's a bell curve.
19:19:07 We have some that are over 100,000, some that are
19:19:10 under 25,000.
19:19:11 But the majority is between the 25 and 74,000.
19:19:19 Typical of the group that was identified.
19:19:25 Based on the discussions that we had previously, the
19:19:29 first and second reading, the neighborhood meetings,
19:19:34 the meetings with local businessmen, we have
19:19:36 identified site plan modifications.
19:19:45 Talking to Mr. Brocato, security what was an important
19:19:50 aspect of his operation.
19:19:52 He identified, periodically in the evening he has
19:19:55 individuals in his parking lot.
19:19:58 So we identified that we will increase our site
19:20:03 lighting as identified in yellow, once we get into
19:20:06 specific design, design photo metrics so that we don't
19:20:09 have spillover from the neighborhood -- into the
19:20:12 neighborhood, and about a half a foot candle at the
19:20:15 edges but the interior will not only have building
19:20:17 lighting but will have pole lighting also so that we
19:20:20 have that increased security.
19:20:23 Also, in discussion, if you so choose to approve this

19:20:28 evening, we have asked for a waiver in the past of the
19:20:32 fence from PVC to masonry.
19:20:37 What I am asking this evening is that waiver be struck
19:20:40 and in fact we are going to -- we would like to put in
19:20:44 the masonry fence, and as a condition of the approval,
19:20:49 add in an additional fence area, in this area here.
19:20:57 The fence currently will come along the property edge
19:21:00 here.
19:21:01 And when we talked to everyone, they have identified
19:21:03 that they would like to see some additional fence
19:21:06 along this way.
19:21:07 So we'll put it in here.
19:21:08 The reason we haven't done it through here is that
19:21:10 this is really going to be the area that's going to be
19:21:15 a park-like situation, mowed grass, very short term
19:21:19 stormwater ponding.
19:21:21 I have had some discussion at the neighborhood
19:21:25 information meeting with a neighbor at this location.
19:21:31 And we have offered to give him a landscaped hedge.
19:21:39 He felt as though he had some discussion, that he
19:21:41 wanted to have some kind of separation or something
19:21:44 there rather than just looking out into the open.

19:21:47 So we have offered that to him, if that would be a
19:21:50 condition that would you like to see, we would
19:21:53 certainly like to put that in for you.
19:21:55 Finally at the neighborhood meeting, community
19:22:06 involvement was discussed, how we are going to fit in
19:22:08 with the community, how we are going to participate
19:22:10 with the children, with the businesses, once we are up
19:22:14 and running and operational, we'll take -- we
19:22:18 certainly will participate.
19:22:20 Value place and the brand doesn't direct us to do
19:22:25 that.
19:22:26 We as a franchisee want to do that.
19:22:29 Mike Michaelson, the owner of the company, has had,
19:22:34 both in Tampa and in the Orlando market, storage
19:22:37 facilities.
19:22:38 At Christmastime we always do the shoe box thing.
19:22:41 We always have some Christmas parties.
19:22:43 We participate in the local community.
19:22:46 We intend on doing that here also.
19:22:48 Christmastime with athletic events, with the soccer
19:22:53 team or ball team, whatever it might be, participate
19:22:55 in that in some fashion.

19:22:57 I'm not sure how that's going to be yet.
19:23:00 But once we are up and running, we will be part of the
19:23:02 community.
19:23:05 Finally, just to wrap up again, we are asking for
19:23:07 rezoning this evening from a C-1 and RS-50 to a PD.
19:23:15 As I said, the area is actually still C-1 is by right,
19:23:22 the use of the hotel.
19:23:24 Parking is in this area.
19:23:25 The ponding is in this area.
19:23:29 With this I will stand down at this time.
19:23:31 And if you have anything, any other questions, I would
19:23:34 certainly like to answer them.
19:23:35 And participate in any discussion.
19:23:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
19:23:40 Council members, any questions?
19:23:43 Ms. Mulhern?
19:23:44 >>MARY MULHERN: I have questions for just for staff.
19:23:48 I need a recap here.
19:23:54 That is a continued second hearing.
19:23:56 When was this first meeting?
19:24:03 >> There was a first public hearing which was then
19:24:05 continued for first reading, and I believe it passed

19:24:07 on first reading, and now it's before you for a second
19:24:10 reading and adoption public hearing.
19:24:11 >> So there was -- the first reading was continued?
19:24:15 >> No, the first reading came before you, I'm sorry,
19:24:18 Abbye Feeley, Land Development Coordination.
19:24:21 First reading was passed during first reading.
19:24:24 >> Second reading came back in the mornings.
19:24:31 Several of the residents were here to speak against
19:24:33 the project.
19:24:35 Had said that they had not been involved or had not
19:24:38 been contacted by the developer to discuss the
19:24:40 project.
19:24:41 Council directed petitioner to go back and have a
19:24:45 community meeting and discuss their concerns, and then
19:24:47 come back before you, and it was continued.
19:24:50 >> So this is the --
19:24:52 >> For second reading.
19:24:53 >> The first reading was held back in November.
19:24:56 >> Yes.
19:24:59 And it was on November 29th.
19:25:01 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, November, December.
19:25:12 Part of the problem I don't have on my agenda, we

19:25:13 normally have the record of what the votes were.
19:25:17 >>> It was a 4-2 vote on first reading sh.
19:25:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could the clerk please share what
19:25:27 the votes were?
19:25:27 And why wasn't it listed on the agenda?
19:25:30 >>THE CLERK: The first reading vote was on November
19:25:32 29th and nos were Dingfelder, Saul-Sena, Mulhern
19:25:36 absent at vote.
19:25:36 >>MARY MULHERN: That's why I don't remember.
19:25:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Any questions by council members,
19:25:42 petitioner or staff?
19:25:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I see myself and other council
19:25:47 members going from one room or the other.
19:25:48 And every room that we are in, we have been watching,
19:25:51 and there's televisions back there and we see the
19:25:53 debate, we hear what's going on.
19:25:55 So because we are not here doesn't mean that we are
19:25:58 not attending to the issues of the public.
19:26:02 Somewhere, because most of us didn't have a chance to
19:26:04 eat, I guess.
19:26:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And we don't talk about it in the
19:26:09 back.

19:26:10 It's one thing we are not allowed to do and we don't
19:26:12 do.
19:26:12 Thank you, Abbye.
19:26:13 Commissioner, are you done with your presentation?
19:26:18 >>> Yes, sir, I am.
19:26:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You will have rebuttal.
19:26:21 Any members of the audience like to be speak on this
19:26:23 matter?
19:26:24 Please come forward.
19:26:27 I guess lining up and first come first served.
19:26:30 Try not to be repetitive or redundant.
19:26:34 Listen to what your neighbors have to say and we are
19:26:36 glad you are here tonight but tell us things we
19:26:38 haven't heard.
19:26:40 Your name and address for the record.
19:26:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me, has everyone been sworn
19:26:46 in?
19:26:46 >> 5301 east 51st Avenue.
19:26:53 Herman Joyner.
19:26:57 J-O-Y-N-E-R.
19:26:59 >> We had a lot of people come in.
19:27:01 Anybody that's going to be testifying on any matter

19:27:02 this evening go ahead.
19:27:09 Anybody that's going to be speaking on this item,
19:27:12 please stand and raise your hand, please.
19:27:16 (Oath administered by Clerk)
19:27:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Such a big crowd.
19:27:29 Yes, sir, go ahead.
19:27:29 >>> You just got your Valentine's gift because you
19:27:32 just got wined and dined.
19:27:34 But I'm telling you, you lived on this street for four
19:27:37 years and I'm telling you, the dough boys and
19:27:45 prostitutes working on Howard Johnson's, which is
19:27:47 right across the street from Brocato's, then down at
19:27:48 the USA.
19:27:49 I lived on these streets.
19:27:52 I found a place to live in a good quality
19:27:54 neighborhood.
19:27:55 I would like to keep it that way.
19:27:56 We lost a Wendy's because the community couldn't
19:27:59 support it.
19:28:00 We lost a Pizza Hut because the community wouldn't
19:28:03 support it.
19:28:04 That's where they want to put the fancy doo dad

19:28:07 building.
19:28:07 Who is going to support it?
19:28:08 The dough boys and the prostitutes.
19:28:15 >> My name is Jim Hinkley, and I have a letter from
19:28:21 Michael and Joe Brocato I would like to read.
19:28:24 To whom it may concern: We, Michael and Joe Brocato,
19:28:28 owners of Brocato family shop oppose the motel that is
19:28:34 being considered across from our business located at
19:28:35 east Columbus drive.
19:28:37 Our restaurant has been here 60 years, opened in 1948.
19:28:43 Due to community hotels and motels in this area
19:28:45 currently, there does not seem to be the need to build
19:28:49 another one.
19:28:51 Many of these remain vacant and draw transient
19:28:53 clientele.
19:28:56 With the construction of I-4 and 50th street
19:28:59 having been completed the vision of this project was a
19:29:03 huge success.
19:29:05 There has been much feedback regarding the interstate
19:29:08 and transportation.
19:29:09 The residents hanging around this area including
19:29:12 Brocato strongly oppose the building of this motel

19:29:19 establishment as well.
19:29:20 Thank you for your time and consideration.
19:29:21 Sincerely, Michael J. Brocato and Joe Brocato.
19:29:27 And on my part I would like to say I don't see any
19:29:29 redeeming value for the residents of this area.
19:29:32 What they really need is a restaurant, a drugstore,
19:29:37 some type of eatery, and, you know, I know I would not
19:29:43 like to wake up in the morning and look at this
19:29:44 monstrosity across the street from my house or near my
19:29:47 property and going out and getting my paper and seeing
19:29:51 it.
19:29:52 Another thing, security issue has been brought up, is
19:29:56 that I know their best intentions are to have security
19:30:01 but those people are going to leave the neighborhood
19:30:03 and waking up and seeing the cars broken into,
19:30:06 vandalism, because of the people that's going to be
19:30:10 using this motel.
19:30:11 It's mostly transients and construction workers and --
19:30:15 I'm not badmouthing construction workers because I use
19:30:18 used to be one.
19:30:19 But they need something other than this motel.
19:30:22 And I urge council members to listen to the voice of

19:30:26 the people that live in this neighborhood and vote no
19:30:29 on this ordinance.
19:30:30 Thank you.
19:30:33 >>> Good evening, chairman, council members.
19:30:38 My name is Victoria Contos, and for 46 years I lived
19:30:44 at the corner of 51st Street and 17th Avenue where
19:30:46 I raised my family.
19:30:47 The proposed hotel would be across the street from me.
19:30:51 I'm adamantly opposed to the rezoning for the
19:30:54 construction of a hotel.
19:30:56 This hotel would encroach on residential property.
19:31:00 At four stories high, this mammoth size building is
19:31:03 inappropriate and not compatible with our
19:31:05 neighborhood -- with our residential neighborhood.
19:31:08 It would be an eyesore.
19:31:10 You have to go to Ybor City to find a structure that
19:31:12 high.
19:31:14 At four stories high, strangers would see my home from
19:31:17 their windows, thereby losing my privacy.
19:31:21 Value place advertises the hotel patrons will be using
19:31:25 local facilities, thus contributing to the economy of
19:31:27 the area.

19:31:29 We don't have any local facilities, no pharmacy, no
19:31:33 shopping areas, no restaurant, other than Brocato's
19:31:38 sandwich shop.
19:31:39 Property values would go down.
19:31:41 No one would want ton buy a home there in the hotel.
19:31:45 There's no doubt the area needs uplifting but
19:31:47 revitalization and redevelopment should be directed at
19:31:50 providing services to the area residents, which
19:31:53 services are not offered by a hotel.
19:31:56 More conducive would be other types of services.
19:31:59 Low-cost hotels attract undesirables.
19:32:02 The visitors will not be screened.
19:32:04 We already have six hotels in the area.
19:32:08 I agree with Reverend Scott's statement that he would
19:32:11 not want to live where he would have to face a wall,
19:32:14 and yet that is exactly what I will be facing.
19:32:17 We also agree with Reverend Scott that our area needs
19:32:19 revitalization and redevelopment, and although he's
19:32:22 familiar with the area, and has our best interest at
19:32:25 heart, more than 400 residents who signed the petition
19:32:30 against the hotel feel that he is not a resident of
19:32:35 our neighborhood and we are.

19:32:36 Our voices should be considered.
19:32:38 I have every confidence that your vote will be the
19:32:41 proper one for our residential community.
19:32:43 Thank you.
19:32:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
19:32:48 >> Dan Dorosh and I reside in the -- before you start
19:32:59 the clock I would like to present an article that was
19:33:01 in the St. Pete Times to each one of the council
19:33:04 members.
19:33:06 And if you would please read this article, peruse it
19:33:10 while I give my reading.
19:33:14 >> We actually already have it.
19:33:18 >>> You have it.
19:33:19 Okay.
19:33:19 This is the reason why we are here.
19:33:24 At the last hearing, councilman Dingfelder championed
19:33:30 the voices of our community by saying a drugstore or
19:33:35 small restaurant would be a better fit for this area.
19:33:40 438 of councilman's Dingfelder's constituents would
19:33:45 agree, at which time by demonstrated by the 50
19:33:49 signatures I hereby submit into public record along
19:33:52 with the 388 previously submitted at the December

19:33:57 20th hearing.
19:33:59 Following are some of the community leaders who have
19:34:01 signed the petition being opposed to the rezoning.
19:34:04 John Michael Brocato, Betty bell of Highland pine,
19:34:12 activist, president of oaks park civic association,
19:34:16 the managers of the center, managers of the laundromat
19:34:20 and the manager of the dollar general all locate in
19:34:22 the Oak Park plaza oppose it.
19:34:25 The area immediately adjacent to the proposed site is
19:34:28 a residential area with no playground for our
19:34:31 children.
19:34:32 These streets are our playground.
19:34:36 The motel would increase the traffic and noise
19:34:38 pollution impacting our children's safety and the
19:34:41 neighborhood.
19:34:41 The waivers and variances requested by the petitioner
19:34:45 ask for additional building and sign height.
19:34:49 In addition to the placement of a retention pond which
19:34:51 would further result in the encroachment into the
19:34:54 neighborhood, what is next?
19:34:58 There are no four-story buildings in the immediate
19:35:00 area, and this would be an eyesore, the predominantly

19:35:05 residential neighborhood.
19:35:06 Regarding -- I would like to submit the six motels in
19:35:12 the area revealing that in less than one year's time,
19:35:14 over 11,000 calls have been made to the police
19:35:21 department.
19:35:22 We mentioned this in the last meeting.
19:35:24 We know it didn't all come from the hotel.
19:35:26 But here's proof of what we are dealing with in the
19:35:28 neighborhood.
19:35:35 If you should grant the rezoning to the petitioner how
19:35:37 would this impact the crime rate?
19:35:39 If the room fees are lower or equal to some of the
19:35:43 motels in the area already experiencing 35 to 50%
19:35:46 occupancy rates, would this create a price drop in the
19:35:51 competing hotels, thus drawing more drug deals and
19:35:55 prostitution to the residential area?
19:35:57 We as residents do not need to find out these answers
19:36:02 to these questions.
19:36:03 In closing, help us regain the dignity as a
19:36:08 residential neighborhood and vote against the waivers
19:36:10 rezoning of this property.
19:36:12 Give us a landmark equal to Brocato's which we can be

19:36:17 proud of.
19:36:18 Thank you kindly for your consideration.
19:36:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
19:36:22 Next speaker.
19:36:22 >>> I would like to submit the crime reports and also
19:36:25 the 50 additional signatures which we have been
19:36:32 conducting in the neighborhood.
19:36:39 For one year.
19:36:40 Less than one year.
19:36:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
19:36:45 Anyone else going to speak?
19:36:50 >> Before the clock is started I have eight waiver
19:36:54 forms.
19:36:54 And I would like to submit copies of a letter.
19:37:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: May I have your speaker waiver form,
19:37:02 please?
19:37:06 >>> Yes.
19:37:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
19:37:12 Would you please acknowledge that you are here when I
19:37:14 call your name?
19:37:17 Patrice Chinery, Mary Cascio. Patricia Cascio.
19:37:26 Carmen Call. George Call.

19:37:26 Did I say that?
19:37:27 Yes.
19:37:28 George Call.
19:37:29 Don Quatral.
19:37:33 Jeremy Omio.
19:37:36 Thank you.
19:37:37 Maria Omalo or Omio?
19:37:40 Is that your hand?
19:37:43 One, two, three, four, five, six.
19:37:46 Actually eight but there are seven people present.
19:37:50 You are allowed up to seven additional minutes.
19:37:52 A total of ten.
19:37:56 Ten minutes total.
19:37:57 >>> My name is Esther Rupp Cottmeyer. I'm speaking
19:38:02 for Colleen Watanabe, one of the senior partners of
19:38:04 LLC who is currently redeveloping the Milner Hotel
19:38:08 site in the East Tampa CRA.
19:38:11 To the members of City Council: My name is Colleen
19:38:14 Watanabe, and I am one of the senior partners of East
19:38:16 Tampa LLC, which is currently redeveloping the former
19:38:20 Milner hotel site on the northwest corner of the I-4
19:38:26 and 50th Avenue intersection in East Tampa CRA.

19:38:31 I was not able to attend tonight's hearing, as I am out
19:38:35 of state.
19:38:35 But there is a volunteer who agreed to read my comments
19:38:40 on this matter.
19:38:41 Back over the summer, we submitted a plan that was well
19:38:44 received by the East Tampa CRA staff as well as by the
19:38:49 local neighborhood association.
19:38:51 Our proposal was to develop a gateway monument for this
19:38:54 area that desperately needs a face lift and a new
19:38:57 identity.
19:38:58 It soon became apparent that this was needed not only
19:39:02 for the economic benefit that would arise from such a
19:39:05 face lift but for the pride it would bring to the
19:39:07 neighborhood as well.
19:39:10 The mayor, the East Tampa CRA, Ed Johnson, and many of
19:39:14 the City of Tampa staff are aware of what we have been
19:39:17 trying to accomplish here.
19:39:19 What began as a simple hotel remodel for us has become,
19:39:23 with the encouragement. City staff, and East Tampa
19:39:27 residents into a greater plan to truly change the
19:39:30 neighborhood.
19:39:31 There's tremendous enthusiasm in the neighborhood about

19:39:33 what the segment of I-4 and critical corner for the
19:39:37 East Tampa CRA could become.
19:39:41 This enthusiasm is in a series of recent development
19:39:43 that is are encouraging folks into believing in a bet
19:39:46 are future, creating a safe neighborhood, and the
19:39:49 resulting hope of an economic revival.
19:39:53 Among recent events, the completion of the I-4
19:39:56 improvements, and the new landscaping road and
19:40:01 sidewalks that came with it.
19:40:02 The opening of the new elementary school barely 2,000 a
19:40:07 feet away from this new proposed hotel is has brought
19:40:10 more active policing and improved security to the
19:40:12 residents.
19:40:14 The brand new park anchored by a committed and
19:40:16 dedicated staff, determined to keep the kids there on
19:40:20 the straight and narrow.
19:40:23 The plan for a gateway monument and the pride it
19:40:26 represents for a neighborhood in need of a moral boost.
19:40:30 Our purchase of the absentee operated manor hotel and
19:40:34 our commitment to the neighbors, not only to bring an
19:40:37 additional first tier hotel but also a franchise
19:40:40 restaurant as well.

19:40:43 For this proposal and the impact it might have, we have
19:40:47 been down this road before.
19:40:50 One of the first things that I did when I was certain
19:40:52 that we were going to close the doors of the manor
19:40:55 hotel was to speak with the owners of the days INN.
19:41:00 I gave them a courtesy warnings we would be closing on
19:41:02 a certain date and begged them to end the week rate
19:41:06 once we closed.
19:41:07 This is extremely critical because until that time the
19:41:10 Miller in, the days inn and the USA inn were involved
19:41:17 in pricing schemes which led to 200 to 250 per week
19:41:22 rate being aggressively advertised.
19:41:25 The result of this was destructive as it spread to the
19:41:29 Howard Johnson express and others.
19:41:31 Suddenly, all the hotels at this intersection became
19:41:35 overrun with undesirable transients, seeking rock
19:41:39 bottom rates, chase ago way the better, higher paying
19:41:43 clientele for obvious reasons.
19:41:45 As destructive as it was, and as self-defeating as it
19:41:51 was, in order to compete, all the hotels felt obligated
19:41:55 to follow this pricing behavior.
19:41:59 What is now at risk -- which is now at risk of being

19:42:04 reintroduced.
19:42:04 The biggest danger, and of the most concern to many
19:42:09 others in the business community is this intersection
19:42:13 that this proposed motel will reignite the destructive
19:42:17 pricing of the past.
19:42:18 By the very nature the pricing scheme of 250 a week,
19:42:21 $250 a week, appeals to transients and other low income
19:42:24 elements that cannot or will not secure themselves a
19:42:27 permanent residence.
19:42:29 This will be a major setback to all the hotels in the
19:42:31 area, as well as businesses that are just rebounding
19:42:36 from the several years of construction and the
19:42:40 destructive pricing scheme.
19:42:43 Also a setback, both residents of East Tampa CRA and
19:42:46 the city leaders have been struggling to accomplish.
19:42:50 A comprehensive plan which is being redone this year
19:42:54 has the intention of cleaning up the neighborhood of
19:42:56 the exact elements this hotel will attract in order to
19:43:00 attract more business investment.
19:43:02 The neighborhood will continue to struggle in its
19:43:05 efforts to attract more tourist related businesses, as
19:43:08 stipulated in the East Tampa CRA as one of the major

19:43:11 goals if the streets are filled with roaming,
19:43:15 undesirable transients.
19:43:16 Even other businesses are bound to suffer as national
19:43:22 franchise family restaurants worry about what walks
19:43:26 across their properties at night or tourists have to be
19:43:29 concerned about cars being broken into.
19:43:30 I think you get the direction.
19:43:34 If this is any major reputable franchise hotel that
19:43:37 based its business model on standard economic norms
19:43:39 then I would be in favor of it.
19:43:42 My lack of -- I know of no other national franchise
19:43:47 that bases its members for brand knew construction on a
19:43:51 $35 per night model.
19:43:53 In the past locally remodeled to a modern interior
19:43:58 corridor hotel, which is a much larger investment over
19:44:01 simply fixing the existing and exterior corridor hotel.
19:44:06 We certainly would not have done this if we felt the
19:44:08 rates were going to be going in a downward spiral.
19:44:12 Our goal and expectation was to raise the average room
19:44:15 rate in the area which would allow competitive owners
19:44:17 to reinvest in their property and in doing so improve
19:44:20 the image and business outlook for the area.

19:44:23 I ask you to consider very carefully the full impact of
19:44:26 this decision.
19:44:28 If it were simply a competitive setback, I would
19:44:31 compete, and I would remain silent.
19:44:33 If it were a new high end hotel, it would help the
19:44:37 image of the area so I would welcome it.
19:44:40 But if this impact is to bring the whole area down and
19:44:44 out, and is detrimental to the overall business
19:44:48 environment, then I will oppose it.
19:44:50 Thank you.
19:44:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
19:44:52 Next speaker.
19:45:01 >>> My name is Rosalea Gibson and I'm here representing
19:45:03 my mom Teresa Coniglio.
19:45:09 We are against this low cost four-story motel.
19:45:11 This area has a history of nationwide hotels such as
19:45:15 LaQuinta and Holiday Inn failing and we don't see how
19:45:22 an additional low market hotel would be advantageous to
19:45:25 this neighborhood.
19:45:30 Drive out to the area and see for yourself the low cost
19:45:32 hotels that are there.
19:45:33 We don't want another Nebraska Avenue.

19:45:36 We would appreciate your vote to not allow this
19:45:38 development.
19:45:39 Thank you.
19:45:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
19:45:40 Next speaker.
19:45:44 >>> My name is Susan Moody and I represent the Days Inn
19:45:52 and I feel as the rest of the community members I think
19:45:55 it's a bad idea to have a hotel that has lower charges
19:45:59 like $35, because that's what the lower rate hotel has
19:46:03 done.
19:46:06 We work very hard to bring the property up to par, the
19:46:10 hotels there.
19:46:12 I think it's a really bad idea, if you have a hotel
19:46:15 that's a weekly stay, for $30 a night.
19:46:23 Thank you.
19:46:25 >>> Good evening Chair Miller and --
19:46:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Louder.
19:46:48 >>> Good evening, chair Miller and council members.
19:46:52 I'm Diane Gentry.
19:46:53 And I live at 506 north Excelda Avenue.
19:46:57 At the first hearing the aerial view of the
19:47:00 neighborhood exhibited many trees masking these nearby

19:47:07 residential homes making it appear that there was
19:47:09 nothing there, that in fact is not the case.
19:47:13 This is a residential area which is demonstrated on the
19:47:17 area in blue.
19:47:18 I would also suggest if you have questions that you
19:47:21 hold them to the end, please.
19:47:23 Because my mother's house will be directly across the
19:47:25 street from the proposed hotel I was among them who
19:47:27 went door to door canvassing the neighborhood about
19:47:30 this proposal for rezoning.
19:47:32 And the overwhelming thought was, we don't need another
19:47:35 hotel.
19:47:37 Neighbors are concerned about clientele this low-cost
19:47:41 extended stay hotel averaging $35 a night would
19:47:44 attract.
19:47:45 In fact, some fear that this extended stay hotel will
19:47:48 encourage temporary housing, and the labor pool that
19:47:53 already exists on Columbus drive, which is nearby, and
19:47:57 they don't see this as a good thing.
19:47:59 I hold before me copies of at least 115 letters that
19:48:04 each of you received by either me dropping them off
19:48:06 here or through the mail.

19:48:11 I happen to know at least 18 people who could not be
19:48:14 here tonight, either because they were ill or because
19:48:16 of work, or because they had other commitments.
19:48:19 But those people all signed these letters.
19:48:23 The content of these letters state that although the
19:48:26 area does need revitalization and redevelopment, these
19:48:30 residents are opposed to the four story hotel that
19:48:33 would intrude onto the residential property, and
19:48:35 because of its size which does not fit in with a
19:48:39 residential area or the surrounding area, it's already
19:48:42 saturated with motels.
19:48:44 They live in the neighborhood, and they ask, hear our
19:48:49 voices.
19:48:49 They are asking for your help.
19:48:53 What other four story buildings are there in the area
19:48:56 to service this community?
19:48:58 None.
19:48:59 Because it's prohibited.
19:49:00 If one goes up the precedent is set for others.
19:49:02 Furthermore, this will be located right next to an
19:49:05 existing established residence, a residential
19:49:11 neighborhood.

19:49:12 More over, this mammoth four story structure would
19:49:16 negatively impact the community with the quality of air
19:49:18 and noise pollution from traffic that will be going on
19:49:22 nearby resident now walk in the neighborhood, their
19:49:25 churn play in the streets, and it will affect them.
19:49:29 Reverend Scott has already conceded that this is an
19:49:32 area with problems.
19:49:35 If this hotel goes up, as a result, the neighborhood
19:49:39 becomes more depressed, there's no way to remedy the
19:49:43 negative impact and consequences.
19:49:45 This is a cry for help from your constituents.
19:49:49 You are their last hope.
19:49:50 The power is in your hands to prevent further
19:49:54 deterioration of this neighborhood.
19:49:57 Your consideration would be greatly appreciated.
19:49:59 Thank you.
19:50:00 And do you have any questions about this?
19:50:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could you please put that map
19:50:10 into -- give it to the clerk so it's part of the
19:50:12 record?
19:50:13 >>> By all means.
19:50:14 May I just point out something?

19:50:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can you make that zoom out?
19:50:23 There's a zoom out button.
19:50:37 The other way.
19:50:39 >>> Diane gentry.
19:50:43 >> You were going to say something?
19:50:45 >>> No.
19:50:45 I'm through.
19:50:46 I just wanted to -- I just wanted to point out, this is
19:50:51 the proposed area for the hotel.
19:50:53 This shows the residential neighborhood.
19:51:00 Right across the street next to Brocato.
19:51:06 And this also shows the proximity of three hotels.
19:51:11 One, two, three, to the proposed site.
19:51:15 Very, very close.
19:51:18 Okay.
19:51:23 I think I'm through.
19:51:25 Thank you.
19:51:29 >> Next.
19:51:30 Go ahead.
19:51:37 >>> 2311 Whittier street.
19:51:41 I have lived of in that area all my life.
19:51:43 I have seen the pretty picture the gentleman had, I

19:51:48 have seen that before
19:51:54 I have seen the quality of the days inn.
19:51:58 I have seen the Tropicana, the gray hotel, torn down
19:52:05 finally.
19:52:05 I raised my kids in this area.
19:52:07 I lived here like I said all my life and I have been a
19:52:11 victim of crime in the area late 0s 20 feet from
19:52:15 where we are talking about, which is now a gas kwik and
19:52:22 I don't think we need more in the area. This pretty
19:52:24 picture, when it ends up five years from now it won't
19:52:28 be a pretty picture.
19:52:29 That's all I have got to say.
19:52:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
19:52:32 Next speaker.
19:52:37 >> Ernest William Preston, Jr.
19:52:42 Live at 2311 North Whittier Street.
19:52:47 Don't want to take a long time on Valentine's Day.
19:52:50 But I am opposed to the motel.
19:52:52 I heat to beat a dead horse but we really don't need it
19:52:55 anymore.
19:52:56 There are so many motels and hotels in the area.
19:53:01 I have to go to like Brandon to go jogging for any

19:53:05 connect.
19:53:07 Don't make it any worse.
19:53:08 >> Is that because it's dangerous?
19:53:11 >>> It's a very dangerous area.
19:53:16 I appreciate all of the police work that's done to try
19:53:18 to help the area.
19:53:19 But this is just a step back, I have to say.
19:53:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What do you call dangerous?
19:53:30 I'm asking him.
19:53:31 What is it?
19:53:32 >>> Drug dealers, for instance, off the end of my
19:53:37 street.
19:53:37 They have actually calmed down a bit since the area
19:53:40 actually started renovating and making a nice area.
19:53:44 But we finally got the prostitutes at least kind of
19:53:47 hide during the daytime, you know.
19:53:50 That's at least a step forward.
19:53:52 We really don't need attracting more.
19:53:54 >> Have you seen drug deals going on?
19:53:58 >>> Yes.
19:53:58 >> Have you called the police department?
19:53:59 >>> Yes.

19:54:00 All the time.
19:54:00 >> Thank you.
19:54:02 >>> I'm probably responsible for at least a hundred and
19:54:05 my dad for probably 200 more.
19:54:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
19:54:13 >>> My name is Chad Henderson.
19:54:17 I wasn't aware of the protocol signing in up here.
19:54:21 I just wanted to state that.
19:54:23 5120 east 20th Avenue.
19:54:27 And I for one just don't see the logic personally in
19:54:32 this.
19:54:32 When you have several other hotels within a stone's
19:54:37 throw away at 30% occupancy, why in the world do you
19:54:40 want to build a new one?
19:54:43 On top of that, it's going to be four stories that we
19:54:46 see it.
19:54:47 Along with the 80-foot sign.
19:54:50 This really doesn't make any sense.
19:54:52 I think something like a restaurant or even a drugstore
19:54:56 would really benefit the community tremendously.
19:55:00 Because a drugstore right now, you have to go to the
19:55:04 Temple Terrace, or South Tampa, or Brandon to a

19:55:08 drugstore.
19:55:10 And so that would be something that would benefit our
19:55:17 community, it really would.
19:55:18 This hotel I just don't see it.
19:55:20 Like I said, we already have more that only have 30%
19:55:24 occupancy right now.
19:55:26 We are just going to add one more.
19:55:28 Thank you for your time.
19:55:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Next.
19:55:34 >>> Hello again.
19:55:36 Happy Valentine's Day to all of guys.
19:55:40 Last time we were here -- my name is Thomas Kirkland,
19:55:45 2305 north 47th street.
19:55:48 I live in the immediate area where he's trying to build
19:55:50 this.
19:55:50 I tried to bring up some crime stats or did bring up
19:55:51 some crime stats in the areas, and the hotels in our
19:55:56 area already.
19:55:57 And I was told by someone on your council that you all
19:56:04 need not focus on that yet.
19:56:05 This guy says doesn't have crime in this area, in his
19:56:09 hotels.

19:56:09 They do the best they can to keep them out of there.
19:56:12 Well, I checked out three of his facilities online.
19:56:16 Orlando, 137 calls, seven pages, one of them drug
19:56:21 overdose, prostitution, grand theft, batteries, the
19:56:25 whole range is there. Just like we already have in
19:56:28 Tampa at these other facilities in this area.
19:56:30 He may start out well.
19:56:32 He may have good intentions.
19:56:34 But I don't believe in this neighborhood he's going to
19:56:37 keep those good intentions.
19:56:41 Are any of you council members real familiar with our
19:56:44 area?
19:56:44 Can you all tell me the name of our beautiful new
19:56:48 interstate?
19:56:49 Anybody?
19:56:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think most of the council is
19:56:54 familiar with the area, but go ahead.
19:56:56 >>> But are you all really there?
19:56:57 That's my question.
19:56:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, I have been to Brocato.
19:57:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I live about five minutes from there
19:57:06 and familiar with the area.

19:57:08 I don't know about the Miller in --
19:57:10 >>> Can you answer the name of the game that is tagging
19:57:12 our interstate?
19:57:15 Because that means you are not really there.
19:57:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's not --
19:57:19 >>> Okay, that's fine.
19:57:19 That's fine.
19:57:21 For the record, it's not Procato's.
19:57:26 It's Brocato's.
19:57:28 I want to make sure that Mr. Brocato and his son gets a
19:57:34 fair name.
19:57:38 Jacksonville. 58 calls. Four pages. Drug investigation.
19:57:40 Couple counts of suicide. This is his facility.
19:57:42 This is not the one next door to his facility. This is
19:57:45 his facility.
19:57:47 Orlando.
19:57:48 Panama City.
19:57:50 59 calls.
19:57:54 Drug offenses.
19:57:54 Prostitution.
19:57:55 Whether he likes it or not, he has the problems we
19:57:57 already have in our community.

19:57:59 And I believe he's only going to bring more.
19:58:01 Okay?
19:58:06 It's a sad thing but it's a true thing.
19:58:08 Yes, we do need development in that area.
19:58:10 We do need something new.
19:58:11 One of our people in our group was approached by the
19:58:16 property owner and said that if this hotel doesn't go
19:58:20 in there, then a trucking business or repair center
19:58:23 goes in there, so the property owner does have backup
19:58:25 for this land.
19:58:26 Just because this guy doesn't come in there doesn't
19:58:28 mean that property is not going to get developed.
19:58:30 And they are speaking of the progress, that we just had
19:58:33 a gentleman not long ago a couple nights ago was beaten
19:58:36 to death in the parking lot of the Kash N' Karry.
19:58:39 Was he beaten to death by a drug user looking for more
19:58:41 money to get more drugs that came out of one of those
19:58:43 hotels?
19:58:43 I don't know this.
19:58:44 Okay? But one block from this hotel is where this
19:58:45 happened at.
19:58:45 But it was just two nights ago.

19:58:53 All right.
19:58:54 I think a trucking company with a fence around the lot
19:58:57 and a big guard dog is a lot better than a hotel with
19:59:03 prostitutes and drug dealers.
19:59:04 Thank you.
19:59:06 >>> My name is Julian Howell.
19:59:09 I live at 5109 east 18th Avenue.
19:59:12 With the -- what the gentleman was addressing here, he
19:59:15 has already pulled the report of what's going on in
19:59:18 these same type of hotels, same type that this
19:59:21 gentleman is trying to propose and put in our
19:59:23 neighborhood.
19:59:23 We have been working hard to take care of our
19:59:26 neighborhood and get it to take care of itself.
19:59:28 Kash N' Karry now is turning into a Sweetbay and adding
19:59:31 a pharmacy in it.
19:59:33 Our neighborhood is not as bad off as everybody thinks
19:59:35 it is.
19:59:35 I mean, we the people are doing our part to make it
19:59:39 better.
19:59:39 But we also have the businesses doing their part.
19:59:41 Now, what we don't need is businesses that's going to

19:59:44 come in, have minimal amount of people, three people
19:59:47 living on the property, what are you going to give me
19:59:50 for security, more lights?
19:59:51 That's not security.
19:59:52 That's just light up the area, okay?
19:59:54 The problems that we have already in the neighborhood
19:59:58 are because of these low dollar hotels here, giving
20:00:02 these people places to live.
20:00:04 If you give them places to reside in our area, you also
20:00:08 give them places to supply their habits.
20:00:13 And they are going to run the street and do what they
20:00:15 have to do.
20:00:17 Do.
20:00:17 And it's going to happen.
20:00:18 It's inevitable.
20:00:19 All we are asking is for the chance for our
20:00:20 neighborhood to grow the way it should grow.
20:00:22 Kash N' Karry has switched and brought Sweetbay in, on
20:00:26 a 30 year contract, there's a big thrift store going in
20:00:29 next to Kash N' Karry, the churches came in now and
20:00:32 bought the other part of the building, so Oak Park is
20:00:36 beginning to grow now. That means we put positive

20:00:38 things in our neighborhood.
20:00:39 Our neighborhood is going to grow.
20:00:40 Our neighborhood is turning over now.
20:00:43 We are beginning to get younger people buying new
20:00:45 houses, being built in the neighborhood.
20:00:48 Pleas don't give us something we don't need -- I work
20:00:52 hard to keep my house up and my property up and to keep
20:00:54 the drugs and all the trouble out.
20:00:56 When I see somebody -- I'm a truck driver.
20:01:00 I leave in the morning.
20:01:01 Before I go to my delivery, I come back by my house
20:01:04 again, drive down the street, check what's going on.
20:01:07 We work hard to keep this neighborhood right and all we
20:01:09 are asking is for you to sit there and give us the
20:01:12 opinion of what you see and what's going on, and if you
20:01:14 do that, then we know for sure this hotel is not coming
20:01:17 in our neighborhood.
20:01:18 Because the facts are spoken and shows that this thing
20:01:21 is trouble.
20:01:22 Nothing but trouble.
20:01:23 From being an eyesore, to the point of the people that
20:01:29 house it.

20:01:30 It's going to bring nothing but trouble to our
20:01:31 neighborhood.
20:01:33 So if you can, please stop it.
20:01:35 Thank you.
20:01:36 >>> My name is Walter Shaw.
20:01:45 I live at 4309 east 20th Avenue.
20:01:48 And I'm here representing my wife.
20:01:52 She had to go to class today and she couldn't be here.
20:01:56 I just moved into the neighborhood.
20:02:00 My wife has been there for six, search years.
20:02:03 I see, when I go to work in the morning I see kids
20:02:06 going to the bus stop, you know, and stuff like that.
20:02:10 And I see a hotel.
20:02:14 The guy say was it 43% were male, you know, not
20:02:24 trying -- not saying anything about truck drivers but
20:02:30 you know you have a lot of truck drivers.
20:02:33 A lot of truck drivers be on the road all day.
20:02:36 Overnight.
20:02:38 Maybe some other areas.
20:02:39 They might not be married, you know.
20:02:41 And then, you know, you might have prostitution in the
20:02:44 area, drug dealing in the area, mixed in with that.

20:02:55 We have a child walk in the store, these people from
20:02:57 other areas, they are not from here.
20:03:00 We already have enough crime in the area.
20:03:04 We already have a situation where we, you know, kids,
20:03:07 you know, they disappear, snatched up or something like
20:03:11 that.
20:03:13 We don't need that.
20:03:14 I mean, we already have hotels in the area.
20:03:18 But the other side of the interstate.
20:03:20 They are on the other side of 50th street.
20:03:24 This is right in the space of our neighborhood.
20:03:29 Now, I work at Hillsborough County.
20:03:32 I have been a public servant for 30 years.
20:03:35 And public service.
20:03:40 I work for the public.
20:03:50 Listen to the voice of the people.
20:03:54 It goes without saying, the voice of the people.
20:04:00 Thank you.
20:04:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
20:04:03 >>> 5022 and this is my third time up here.
20:04:15 And I still oppose.
20:04:16 Thank you.

20:04:24 >> I live at 5022, this inform story building will take
20:04:34 away our privacy, from the upper floor, can look into
20:04:38 my yard, which is next to the hotel.
20:04:42 And watch our activities.
20:04:46 This will not benefit the residents of our community.
20:04:50 Thank you.
20:04:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
20:04:53 Next speaker.
20:04:54 >>> Good evening.
20:04:59 Happy Valentine's Day to all of you.
20:05:01 I'm the third time here.
20:05:02 And I guess we owe you an apology, because you got --
20:05:14 5:45 on the clock and you people were worried we were
20:05:17 going to be heard, that we were going to be out of here
20:05:20 and I'm sorry, but you got the people that want to
20:05:22 build the hotel.
20:05:24 Okay.
20:05:24 For the simple reason, and I said, you know --
20:05:32 >> Your name for the record?
20:05:33 >>> Oh, I'm sorry.
20:05:34 My name is Manuel (unintelligible). I live at
20:05:36 5104-17th Avenue east, Tampa, Florida.

20:05:46 Been in the neighborhood for about 20 years.
20:05:48 We working really hard to get our neighborhood in
20:05:52 order.
20:05:53 Because going through this, we learn a lot of things
20:05:55 that we never paid attention to it really because we
20:05:59 are probably too busy working raising a kid, and
20:06:04 everything that going on.
20:06:06 So my concern there, this project was put under the
20:06:15 table, whatever research they have done, they figured
20:06:28 and for some kind of reason that sign was there a
20:06:37 couple of days.
20:06:40 They took it down because I don't know.
20:06:43 But when you come to a small neighborhood, it's a
20:06:48 middle class neighborhood that we are trying to
20:06:49 revitalize.
20:06:50 This is not the way to do it.
20:06:52 And I'm here to ask you people, please, just pretend
20:06:56 that you live next door to this hotel, that you got
20:06:59 kids.
20:07:00 They are going to be looking at your window.
20:07:05 Playing in your yard.
20:07:07 We need business people that are going to invest money

20:07:12 in the community.
20:07:13 We got a small park.
20:07:15 It's a shame, you go to Brandon, and our
20:07:24 neighborhood -- 200 years old, and our neighborhood for
20:07:35 the kids, you call the police, and the police say, we
20:07:38 don't see it, we cannot take them to jail.
20:07:42 Okay.
20:07:43 Our park needs rehabilitation.
20:07:46 You need to do something for our community.
20:07:48 This hotel cannot go there because it does not belong
20:07:51 in our neighborhood.
20:07:52 We need real business people.
20:07:56 They are going to revitalize the corner.
20:07:57 They are going to help our neighborhood.
20:08:00 Now take it down.
20:08:01 We already have enough hotels.
20:08:03 We ask City Council to come up with something to get
20:08:07 these bad business people out.
20:08:11 And
20:08:12 They have reason to be a business person.
20:08:21 They have respect for the neighborhood.
20:08:23 They mind their own business.

20:08:24 And not bring criminals no more to the neighborhood.
20:08:29 And the police coming to be more push for the
20:08:36 neighborhood.
20:08:39 They are looking at the gas station and all the way
20:08:42 across the street and the neighborhood.
20:08:44 So we want the City Council to really, really help us,
20:08:50 now that we are here --
20:08:53 >>CHAIRMAN: Your time is up.
20:08:54 >>> I appreciate it.
20:08:55 And God bless you.
20:08:56 And I hope that you guys do whatever it takes.
20:08:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
20:09:02 >>> My name is Washington, I'm the president of Beasley
20:09:14 old park civic association.
20:09:16 How are you doing?
20:09:19 I can't believe it.
20:09:27 I just want to say, how honored I am for the research
20:09:32 done, keeping me updated with all this information,
20:09:36 letting me know who was involved, as far as money goes,
20:09:45 keeping me updated.
20:09:46 I thank you, Diane, for everything.
20:09:49 As a city representative to council, please vote what

20:09:53 lies within your heart.
20:09:54 Thank you.
20:09:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
20:09:56 >>> Good evening.
20:10:04 I have been sworn.
20:10:05 Robert Cascio, I reside at 5109 east 17th Avenue.
20:10:10 There is no four story buildings in or adjacent to our
20:10:13 community.
20:10:16 Doesn't city zoning designation disallow the
20:10:18 construction of four story buildings in around the
20:10:20 periphery --
20:10:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Sir, you cannot speak.
20:10:22 You put your name on that waiver for the lady speaking.
20:10:25 You cannot speak.
20:10:25 >>> No, ma'am, I did not.
20:10:28 >> There are several Cascios.
20:10:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
20:10:34 Continue on.
20:10:34 Sorry.
20:10:36 >>> Very good.
20:10:37 There are no four story buildings in or adjacent to our
20:10:40 community.

20:10:42 Doesn't city zoning designations disallow the
20:10:44 construction of four story buildings in along the
20:10:47 periphery of residential communities.
20:10:51 Multi-story buildings in residential communities
20:10:53 violate privacy rights of nearby residents.
20:10:55 Who would want strangers occupying the upper floors of
20:10:58 the hotel looking down into our yard and perhaps
20:11:02 observing our activity?
20:11:05 We had an expectation of privacy when we purchased our
20:11:07 homes.
20:11:09 It is not unreasonable that we would want top retain
20:11:11 our rights to privacy.
20:11:14 Due to logistics there is not sufficient land to
20:11:17 provide adequate buffer between a hotel and a property
20:11:19 of nearby homeowners.
20:11:21 I'm sure the City Council members will not want a hotel
20:11:23 in their community.
20:11:25 Furthermore, approving the use of the property in
20:11:30 question for multi-story use will set a precedent for
20:11:32 development of multi-story buildings in this community.
20:11:35 Although the hotel might have support in development of
20:11:37 other commercial facilities in or near the community,

20:11:41 the hotel -- we do not need a hotel in our area.
20:11:46 The City Council should consider approving this
20:11:49 development which would be of interest and benefit to
20:11:52 the majority of the residents within the community.
20:11:56 In a facility which meets the cry criteria it's
20:12:00 considered an improvement.
20:12:01 Hotels in the community would not be viewed as an
20:12:04 improvement.
20:12:05 Developers indicated they also need to have two
20:12:07 adjacent residential lots rezoned to accommodate
20:12:10 parking.
20:12:11 This will result in only one or two on this block.
20:12:17 What you suspect uses of this property?
20:12:20 It is doubtful that someone who wants to invest in a
20:12:23 home at that location.
20:12:24 Construction of a multi-story building should be
20:12:27 approved which has the same type of facility which
20:12:32 would be consistent with the other building as
20:12:34 architecture in that area.
20:12:36 City Council planners developed criteria for various
20:12:40 types of development within the City of Tampa for a
20:12:41 reason.

20:12:42 City zoning classifications as a result of an arduous
20:12:47 review and assessment of criteria to each class of
20:12:50 property use.
20:12:51 Clearly, a four-story hotel at this location is
20:12:54 inconsistent with the city planners land use plan.
20:12:57 In closing, I want to say, I was born and raised in
20:13:01 Tampa.
20:13:01 I was born in Ybor City.
20:13:03 I am resided -- for the past 61 years.
20:13:09 I have seen all the motels in my area go up brand new,
20:13:11 and I can see what they have done to the community.
20:13:17 Probation officer by trade, I supervise the areas, I
20:13:20 know there is crime there.
20:13:21 I supervise offenders that resided in those motels.
20:13:24 I have seen firsthand the crime going on.
20:13:29 Sex offenders being in contact with the kids, I've seen
20:13:33 it.
20:13:34 It's up to you to help us out.
20:13:37 Thank you very much.
20:13:38 >>> I have been sworn in.
20:13:50 My name is William Cabal, 18th Avenue.
20:13:54 I lived here all my life.

20:13:57 My grandparents moved here.
20:13:59 My parents moved here.
20:14:01 My kids are gonna live there and I can't see where this
20:14:06 hotel is going to have anything to do with my great
20:14:09 kids, although I would be proud if they lived there,
20:14:12 too.
20:14:13 So I appreciate your help because we need something
20:14:21 else.
20:14:21 Like you said, I would rather have a company with a
20:14:25 guard dog.
20:14:26 Thank you.
20:14:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Is anyone else going to speak?
20:14:30 Petitioner, do you want to come up and rebuttal?
20:14:34 >>> Members of council, we have seen passion and we
20:14:47 have seen some democracy at its finest.
20:14:50 Wonderful.
20:14:50 It really is.
20:14:53 We have also seen discussion about four-story, for
20:14:59 discussion about zoning classifications, comp plan
20:15:03 classifications.
20:15:03 We have heard discussion busy encroachment.
20:15:06 We have heard discussions about safety within our

20:15:08 building.
20:15:08 We have heard discussion about crime, and high crime in
20:15:12 this community, in drug dealing, prostitution.
20:15:17 What we are trying to bring to this community is some
20:15:20 change.
20:15:21 Change is a difficult thing to embrace.
20:15:27 Embrace is something that's unknown, something that's
20:15:29 new, something that's different.
20:15:31 We wouldn't invest $7.6 million into an area
20:15:36 frivolously.
20:15:37 We wouldn't have our people on the site managing it,
20:15:41 our own people.
20:15:43 Screening people.
20:15:44 We want to bring change to the community.
20:15:46 We want to have a good business here.
20:15:49 I would like to take and remind -- I did in error call
20:15:54 this a C-1 zoning.
20:15:56 This is in fact a CI zoning, high intensity use, which
20:16:02 by right, the gentleman was right, we are asking for
20:16:04 two lots to be rezoned as part of the PD.
20:16:10 I would also like to point out that this project is in
20:16:13 conformance with the overall comp plan of high

20:16:16 intensity commercial use.
20:16:19 A little bit different from the neighborhood.
20:16:21 The neighborhood has issues.
20:16:24 They want to have businesses in a location that can't
20:16:29 afford the location.
20:16:32 A CVS pharmacy of the like couldn't afford the land
20:16:37 that's here.
20:16:38 Yes, I did have a discussion with the land owner the
20:16:42 night of the neighborhood meeting.
20:16:43 He did talk about a truck maintenance facility if this
20:16:48 goes away.
20:16:51 If that's the choice that council would like to put in
20:16:53 there, great, that's what he's going to do because he
20:16:56 can't sell to the anyone else.
20:16:57 But I'm asking you this evening just to allow us to
20:17:01 come into the community, build a good building, manage
20:17:05 a good building, support the community with our taxes,
20:17:09 with our efforts.
20:17:13 Thank you very much.
20:17:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
20:17:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
20:17:18 >> Second.

20:17:19 (Motion carried)
20:17:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
20:17:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
20:17:25 Just to try to move things along this evening.
20:17:28 Even though this is supposedly here for second reading,
20:17:33 I think that there's persuasive evidence in all of the
20:17:36 hearings that we have heard and especially tonight to
20:17:39 deny this petition.
20:17:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
20:17:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And that's my motion.
20:17:43 I am going to elaborate a little bit because that's
20:17:45 what the law says I need to do.
20:17:47 So I am going to reference to our rezoning code, land
20:17:51 use code section 27-321 paren 6 which we promote PDs
20:18:00 where appropriate in location, character and
20:18:02 compatibility with the surrounding impact neighborhood,
20:18:07 existing geography.
20:18:10 321 (2) also speaks to compatibility of the project, of
20:18:15 the entire project, with the surrounding neighborhood.
20:18:17 I think those two key provisions, we have to read and
20:18:22 we have to read them carefully because we don't look at
20:18:24 those things often enough.

20:18:26 The criteria is there for us to look at.
20:18:28 And the other thing we have to look at, and we have to
20:18:31 listen to, and I made some notes here, is that this is
20:18:37 our community, these are our constituents, and they
20:18:39 told us loud and clear that we need to listen to the
20:18:41 people, that the community is asking for our help, and
20:18:44 somebody even said that it's a cry for help from this
20:18:47 community.
20:18:48 I remember one time about seven or eight years ago,
20:18:52 before I was on this council, when a developer came
20:18:55 into my neighborhood, he wanted to put multifamily
20:18:58 right in my single-family neighborhood.
20:19:00 And I remember very distinctly to this day his words
20:19:03 were, I'm trying to class up your neighborhood.
20:19:06 Well, now what?
20:19:07 I thought I already had a pretty classy neighborhood
20:19:09 and I resented it.
20:19:11 And I think I knew my neighborhood better than he did.
20:19:14 And frankly, I think that's what we are hearing
20:19:16 tonight.
20:19:17 If this community makes the neighborhood far better
20:19:19 than the rest of us.

20:19:20 And I will listen to them, and that's why I'm moving
20:19:25 tonight to deny.
20:19:26 I believe it's inconsistent and incompatible especially
20:19:29 in regard to the height and the mass and the scale of
20:19:31 the structure, the waivers that they have asked for.
20:19:34 I believe it is intrusive on the neighborhood, that it
20:19:39 will increase the crime.
20:19:40 We have seen crime statistics for the neighborhood.
20:19:42 I think it will increase the crime.
20:19:45 And that's good enough.
20:19:47 Thank you.
20:19:51 [ Applause ]
20:19:52 And we don't want to have clapping and stuff because it
20:20:01 just gets out of control so let's hold off.
20:20:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I seconded the motion for denial, in
20:20:07 addition, the petitioner asked for a number of waivers.
20:20:12 These waivers, he didn't provide good reasons why we
20:20:16 should grant these waivers.
20:20:17 And I have to compliment the neighborhood for the
20:20:22 organization and dignity with which you presented your
20:20:26 concerns.
20:20:28 Your commitment to your neighborhood bodes well for its

20:20:32 future and you should be very proud.
20:20:35 >>GWEN MILLER: We have --
20:20:38 [Sounding gavel]
20:20:39 We don't need know more clapping and applauding.
20:20:41 Mr. Caetano.
20:20:42 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Immediately after the vote, can I
20:20:45 have the floor?
20:20:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, you may.
20:20:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second on the floor.
20:20:50 Everybody ready for the question?
20:20:51 All in favor say Aye.
20:20:52 Opposed, Nay.
20:20:54 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
20:20:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Project failed.
20:21:00 >>GWEN MILLER:
20:21:01 [Sounding gavel]
20:21:01 Let's go out quietly now.
20:21:02 That's it.
20:21:03 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Madam Chairman and members of the
20:21:05 audience here, I spoke with the chief of police today
20:21:07 about this.
20:21:08 And it's a shame that someone who wants to bring a

20:21:11 business to the city had so much opposition.
20:21:15 And this opposition should not exist.
20:21:19 And I know there's prostitution there.
20:21:22 The drugs and everything else.
20:21:23 And these people have a right to build on their
20:21:27 property.
20:21:28 And the thing is, I am going to have the chief come
20:21:31 here and find out what he is doing to clean this
20:21:34 prostitution and these drugs up.
20:21:37 Do we close this hotel in New York where this actor
20:21:41 died for a drug overdose?
20:21:44 How many people were arrested at the recent parade?
20:21:48 But we still carry those parades every year.
20:21:51 What we need to do is clean up our act, and that's the
20:21:54 problem.
20:21:54 And that's why this vote failed tonight, because the
20:21:56 audience got together and didn't support it.
20:21:59 And the chief said he would cooperate with us.
20:22:02 And I am going to insist that he cooperate.
20:22:04 Because there's no need to have all this going on.
20:22:08 And the reason those places are only 30% occupied, no
20:22:12 one wants to go in there, because it's crime ridden.

20:22:16 And that's the reason why.
20:22:18 But if it's a legitimate hotel, it will survive.
20:22:22 And they have got to be cleaned up.
20:22:24 Thank you.
20:22:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby.
20:22:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Ladies and gentlemen, no, no, no.
20:22:30 That's it now.
20:22:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So that wasn't in the form of a motion
20:22:33 or anything.
20:22:33 >> No.
20:22:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
20:22:36 That's it.
20:22:38 If you move out quietly wee we can keep on with our
20:22:42 agenda.
20:22:43 Thank you.
20:22:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If you could go out quietly and
20:23:29 possible.
20:23:30 >> I believe item number 8 was set for 5:55.
20:23:33 Wet zoning.
20:23:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
20:23:35 It's too late.
20:23:36 >>> Can I go home?

20:23:38 [ Laughter ]
20:23:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: May I have the floor for one second?
20:23:45 Thank you, Madam Chair.
20:23:47 I'm not here to qualify the record or anything else.
20:23:51 But first of all, this number 7 was in the wrong -- it
20:23:55 was a continued public hearing.
20:23:56 Number 8 is a continued public hearing.
20:23:58 What does that mean?
20:23:59 That means that if you spoke in the first hearing, not
20:24:03 my rule, I want the attorney to tell us, can you speak
20:24:06 at the second hearing?
20:24:07 I think the answer is no.
20:24:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Forgive me, but I was not aware that
20:24:13 number 7 was a continued public hearing.
20:24:15 I had forgotten.
20:24:16 >> And I'm not blaming you.
20:24:17 It was in the wrong position and I'm not blaming
20:24:19 anyone.
20:24:19 That's just the way the records fell.
20:24:23 I just want to make sure.
20:24:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Coyle, it's continuing.
20:24:28 Let's go.

20:24:30 >>CATHY COYLE: I don't really have anything additional
20:24:32 to say.
20:24:33 Staff didn't have any objections to this request.
20:24:35 It's for 4802 west bay court Avenue.
20:24:43 Westshore pizza.
20:24:45 The staff had no objections.
20:24:46 Neither did the police department.
20:24:48 The petitioner got up and there were some concerns from
20:24:50 the neighbors.
20:24:50 You had asked them to go back and meet with the
20:24:53 neighbors.
20:24:53 Really they are just reporting back to you about what
20:24:56 occurred.
20:24:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The witnesses for number 8 and the
20:25:01 ones following were not sworn in.
20:25:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We told
20:25:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We told them to meet with the
20:25:09 neighborhood and report back to us.
20:25:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If you ask the neighbors to come
20:25:20 back I guess you are going to have to hear from them.
20:25:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner, you need to speak first.
20:25:24 Who is the petitioner?

20:25:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is the petitioner --
20:25:29 >>CHAIRMAN: Are you all the petitioner? Okay.
20:25:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe those who wish to speak for
20:25:33 number 8 should be sworn in.
20:25:35 For this evening.
20:25:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Is anyone going to speak on item number
20:25:38 8?
20:25:39 Please raise your right hand.
20:25:43 (Oath administered by Clerk)
20:25:52 >>> My name is William Otte from Westshore pizza,
20:25:57 address 4802 west bay court Avenue.
20:26:01 And we are requesting sale of alcohol as 2(COP-R).
20:26:08 Per your requests, we did go back.
20:26:12 We had a meeting with our neighbors.
20:26:13 All that were interested came.
20:26:16 We had dialogue between our neighbors.
20:26:19 We resolved any concerns they may have.
20:26:23 And Marty here is representing the other neighbors.
20:26:27 As far as we are concerned, we are all good neighbors.
20:26:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You have the kumbaya worked out.
20:26:38 Put your name on the record.
20:26:39 >> Marty Peate, west bay court.

20:26:43 I met personally with bill and Jerry and voiced the
20:26:46 concerns I got from the neighbors.
20:26:48 We organized a neighborhood meeting at their facility.
20:26:51 Good number of the neighbors came.
20:26:54 The concerns were voiced.
20:26:56 These guys helped work out things about parking and
20:26:59 traffic issues like running great specials for happy
20:27:04 hours and things like that.
20:27:06 That's not what they are trying to do.
20:27:08 The neighborhood is happy with the resolution it came
20:27:11 to.
20:27:11 One thing we would like to ask the city to do, however,
20:27:14 is considering our street bay court and the parallel
20:27:17 street bay villa are neither through streets, is for
20:27:21 the city to place not-through street signs at the
20:27:25 Westshore end of our street to help minimize the
20:27:28 potential for traffic coming from Westshore pizza,
20:27:31 trying to sneak over to the light at Euclid and
20:27:35 Westshore, where that connection doesn't exist.
20:27:37 So the only thing we would like to see from the city
20:27:39 subpoena two signs at the end of our street stating
20:27:42 "not a through street."

20:27:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If I could, Madam Chair.
20:27:46 So as far as this petitioner is concerned, the
20:27:50 neighborhood is satisfied?
20:27:51 >>> we're cool.
20:27:53 >>
20:27:54 >>MARY MULHERN: What about your daughter?
20:27:59 >>> They are very glad I didn't bring her.
20:28:01 Everybody is okay with that.
20:28:02 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to close the public hearing.
20:28:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Having spoken at the previous
20:28:10 hearing --
20:28:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Does anyone in the public want ton speak
20:28:12 on item number 8?
20:28:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
20:28:14 >> Second.
20:28:15 (Motion carried)
20:28:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: As far as that other issue is
20:28:22 concerned, if you would be kind enough to send me an
20:28:24 e-mail and I'll put it into the transportation
20:28:26 department and we'll see if we can get that signage.
20:28:29 Move an ordinance making lawful the sale of beverages
20:28:32 --

20:28:35 >> First reading.
20:28:36 An ordinance making lawful the sale of beverages
20:28:37 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight not more
20:28:39 than 14% by weight and wines regardless of alcoholic
20:28:42 content beer and wine 2(COP-R) for consumption on the
20:28:45 premises only in connection with a restaurant business
20:28:47 establishment on that certain lot plot or tract of land
20:28:51 located at 4802 west bay court Tampa, Florida, more
20:28:55 described in section 2 hereof waiving certain
20:28:57 restrictions as to distance providing for repeal of
20:29:03 ordinances in conflict providing an effective date.
20:29:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Question on the motion.
20:29:06 Mr. Caetano.
20:29:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: It's great that you compromised
20:29:10 whatever you did.
20:29:11 I know you are going to give them a free drink or
20:29:13 whatever what.
20:29:14 It's good that that happened.
20:29:15 And it's going to be -- I think it will be a great
20:29:18 place.
20:29:19 Good luck.
20:29:22 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.

20:29:24 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
20:29:26 Opposed, Nay.
20:29:26 >>CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being absent at
20:29:31 vote.
20:29:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And second reading and public
20:29:34 hearing?clerk
20:29:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Two weeks?
20:29:45 >>THE CLERK: Second reading and adoption will be on
20:29:48 March --
20:29:51 >>GWEN MILLER: February 28th.
20:29:54 That's two weeks.
20:29:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Monday is the third, fourth, fifth.
20:29:57 >>THE CLERK: March 6th at 9:30 a.m.
20:30:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
20:30:04 Ms. Feeley, who is going to do this?
20:30:10 >>JILL FINNEY: Land development coordination.
20:30:12 I have been
20:30:23 Item number 9.
20:30:24 Requested this be removed from the agenda.
20:30:25 >> So moved.
20:30:26 >> Second. (Motion carried)
20:30:27 >> Item number 10.

20:30:31 To be removed from the agenda.
20:30:34 >> So moved.
20:30:35 >> Second.
20:30:35 (Motion carried)
20:30:36 >>> Item number 7 petitioner requests a continuance to
20:30:44 March 13th.
20:30:45 >> So moved.
20:30:48 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open it first.
20:30:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open public number 17.
20:30:52 >> Second.
20:30:53 (Motion carried).
20:30:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone in the public that came to speak
20:30:55 on item number 17 of?
20:30:56 >> Move to continue to, what is it, March 13th?
20:31:06 March 13th at 6:00 p.m.
20:31:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
20:31:13 Second.
20:31:14 Anyone in the public going to speak -- all in favor of
20:31:18 the motion say Aye.
20:31:19 (Motion carried)
20:31:20 Anyone in the public going to speak on 11 through 16,
20:31:23 would you please stand and raise your right hand.

20:31:34 (Oath administered by Clerk).
20:31:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 11.
20:31:41 Continued public hearing.
20:32:18 >>JILL FINNEY: Land Development Coordination.
20:32:19 I have been sworn.
20:32:20 We are here for petition Z-07-99 located at 2005 east
20:32:26 Osborne Avenue and 4616-22nd street going from RS-50
20:32:32 residential single-family RM-24 residential
20:32:36 multifamily to CG to PD and detached and semi detached
20:32:41 uses.
20:32:42 Petitioner is petitioning to rezone the property to
20:32:44 allow for development of 31 town homes.
20:32:48 The 2.12-acre site is surrounded by multi-and
20:32:52 single-family homes, office and commercial uses.
20:32:56 The PD setbacks are as follows.
20:32:58 The north, 20 feet.
20:32:59 The east, 21 feet, the south, 15 feet, and west 10
20:33:04 feet.
20:33:05 The site will contain 7 structures consisting of two
20:33:09 to eight units in each structure.
20:33:11 The national building height has been proposed at 28
20:33:13 feet.

20:33:14 The required number of parking spaces is 70 and 68
20:33:18 spaces have been provided.
20:33:20 Therefore a waiver for the two parking spaces has been
20:33:23 requested.
20:33:24 Access to the site will be from 22nd street and
20:33:26 Osborne Avenue.
20:33:42 There is a zoning map of the area.
20:33:49 There's an RM-24 to the east.
20:33:54 RM 16 to the north with RS 50 to the west.
20:34:07 Here is an aerial of the subject property with Osborne
20:34:10 to the north and 22nd to the east.
20:34:25 This is located east of the site on Osborne.
20:34:31 This is a picture of the site from 22nd street.
20:34:36 And this is just north of the site.
20:34:38 The barbecue pit.
20:34:48 This is located -- this is the southwest portion of
20:34:52 the site.
20:34:56 This is the City of Tampa stormwater located south of
20:35:01 the site and these are the businesses that are
20:35:03 operating at the center of Osborne and 22nd street.
20:35:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Does the property have a lot of
20:35:13 wetlands?

20:35:14 >>CHAIRMAN: no, no wetlands.
20:35:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just kind of woody?
20:35:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Woody.
20:35:21 >>> This is the empty lot.
20:35:24 Here's some other businesses.
20:35:26 And this is the multifamily residential located
20:35:28 directly east of the site.
20:35:32 City staff has found this petition to be inconsistent
20:35:42 with the applicable City of Tampa land development
20:35:45 regulations.
20:35:50 Land development requests that the petitioner address
20:35:55 the outstanding inconsistencies with the various city
20:35:59 staff.
20:36:04 LDC finds this inconsistent based on compatibility,
20:36:07 section 27-321-6, and request that the setback along
20:36:15 the western property line be placed at is a feet since
20:36:19 it's directly abutting single-family residential lots.
20:36:26 LDC also finds the plan to be inconsistent with the
20:36:31 standards at the East Tampa development guidelines,
20:36:37 as -- to rights-of-way of 22nd street and Osborne
20:36:43 Avenue and also the garages are protruding in front of
20:36:45 the primary -- the primary walls of the principal

20:36:53 structure.
20:36:53 Note number 6 says there will be canopied covered
20:36:59 parking but renderings and details have not been
20:37:01 submitted.
20:37:05 And they are requesting a 6-foot block wall at Osborne
20:37:11 Avenue which we requested be at three feet if it's
20:37:15 going to be opaque or four feet if transparent.
20:37:22 Various other departments have continued
20:37:23 inconsistencies from tree and landscaping, Hartline,
20:37:27 parks and recreation, and stormwater.
20:37:31 The petitioner has agreed to certain items but there
20:37:34 are certain items that they are not -- therefore city
20:37:37 staff is maintaining their objections to this
20:37:40 petition.
20:37:41 I'm available for questions.
20:37:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I was looking really carefully at
20:37:46 the renderings, and your comments, and you said that
20:37:50 on 22nd street you don't have a forecast of the
20:37:56 bidding, you just have a blank side.
20:37:58 >>> That's correct.
20:37:58 >>: So it would look like that?
20:38:00 >>> Yes, ma'am.

20:38:00 >> Thank you.
20:38:03 22nd.
20:38:05 If the petitioner needs to correct all these things,
20:38:25 why is this even before us?
20:38:27 >>> The petitioner has decided to move forward.
20:38:32 City staff had requested to continue to work out these
20:38:36 problems.
20:38:37 They can work them out because they will be
20:38:41 substantial so they won't be able to do it for two
20:38:43 weeks till second reading.
20:38:45 They would have to do at least four weeks in between
20:38:47 to give staff a chance top review it.
20:38:50 And anything they are proposing tonight we have not
20:38:51 seen.
20:38:55 So we need -- at least the four weeks.
20:38:58 >> Got you.
20:39:03 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
20:39:04 I have been sworn in.
20:39:07 As relates to the existing comprehensive plan, the
20:39:10 proposed site in question, the request is for 31
20:39:14 attached units for the site.
20:39:17 The site is located within the East Tampa community

20:39:19 redevelopment area, and within the enterprise zone of
20:39:21 the greater City of Tampa.
20:39:23 The site is located from southwest corner of the
20:39:26 intersection of Osborne Avenue and 22nd street.
20:39:29 For those of you that are familiar with the area, it
20:39:31 is about a half mile south of Hillsborough Avenue, and
20:39:36 catter-corner from Middleton high school.
20:39:40 As far as the land use categories are concerned, on
20:39:43 the future land use map, you have several land use
20:39:45 categories represented in the area. This is
20:39:47 residential 50. This is community mixed use 35 which
20:39:50 allows a variety of commercial uses, general
20:39:52 commercial, intensive -- neighborhood commercial and
20:39:55 general commercial, low intensity office.
20:39:58 You have residential 20 and residential 10.
20:40:00 This is residential 35.
20:40:04 If you see the parcelization, this is also a segment
20:40:07 of the city that does have large tracts of undeveloped
20:40:09 land that is suitable for residential development.
20:40:13 The aerial, as you can see here, does show the high
20:40:15 school in question.
20:40:17 There is a heavily treed area as Mr. Dingfelder

20:40:19 already alluded to.
20:40:20 There are a lot of trees on the property which does
20:40:23 pose to be an issue by I'm sure that city staff has
20:40:26 already noted in their comments to you.
20:40:29 The site does have internal circulation for units, 31
20:40:33 units, and does have access to both the collector
20:40:36 roads of Osborne Avenue and 22nd street.
20:40:39 These all reference to the south over here, Mr.
20:40:42 Dingfelder, as awe lewded to.
20:40:43 I goes you saw that and thought it probably continued
20:40:45 into the area in question.
20:40:48 But it does not.
20:40:49 This is all vacant land over here that is probably not
20:40:52 developable, probably not much of it at all, and there
20:40:54 are several large parcels to the north under this
20:40:57 treed area that are also undeveloped.
20:40:59 And of course you do have a multifamily development
20:41:02 directly across the street which interface was the
20:41:04 proposed development in question.
20:41:06 Regarding the compatibility of uses, I think existing
20:41:10 multifamily project directly adjacent to the site.
20:41:12 Do you have an area here that is encroached by

20:41:15 residential redevelopment.
20:41:17 Do you have large pockets of vacant land that allows
20:41:21 consideration of that and is one of the statements
20:41:23 within the CRA plan for the East Tampa area.
20:41:26 There are policies that talk about encroachment of
20:41:29 residential in-fill in certain areas of the city that
20:41:31 have public facilities readily available.
20:41:34 There are also policies that talk about residential
20:41:37 redevelopment and integration of uses within the
20:41:39 enterprise zone of which this is also part of.
20:41:42 The policy that is we have find this consistent with
20:41:46 the comprehensive plan indicate the city's desire for
20:41:48 compatible integrated development.
20:41:50 The proposed project as I said before does lie within
20:41:53 the East Tampa community redevelopment area and the
20:41:55 Tampa enterprise zone and does provide appropriate
20:41:58 residential in-fill in an area of the city where
20:42:00 increased residential projects are encouraged.
20:42:05 Based on those findings of fact Planning Commission
20:42:08 staff found the proposed project consistent with the
20:42:10 comprehensive plan.
20:42:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wondered if we could hear

20:42:15 from Mary.
20:42:20 >> Mary Daniels Bryson, Land Development Coordination.
20:42:25 I have been sworn.
20:42:27 On the south property boundary, they are heavily
20:42:29 treed, and we have the petitioner -- proposed
20:42:36 buildings and stake where the rooftop would elevate.
20:42:41 And there are a few buildings that we would like to
20:42:45 have moved in order to preserve the canopy in that
20:42:49 area.
20:42:53 I don't know if you are able to see.
20:43:04 Right here is where the building comes out and the
20:43:05 building line will be 20 feet in the air.
20:43:09 Back further here, the building is on 26 feet.
20:43:15 We have worked out most of the canopy issues with the
20:43:18 petitioner.
20:43:19 There were a couple of units that we wanted to move
20:43:24 forward.
20:43:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Does the site plan before us
20:43:27 reflect those changes?
20:43:28 >>> No, it does not.
20:43:30 >> Okay, thank you.
20:43:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?

20:43:43 >>> Ed G. Spicola, Jr., 412 Madison street, Tampa,
20:43:48 Florida.
20:43:49 Representing the petitioners, and with me is Mr. Jim
20:43:54 Stutzman, our planner, and Allison, our tree expert.
20:44:05 The staff report is quite lengthy.
20:44:08 And it may leave the impression with you that we have
20:44:12 not been receptive to their comments and not
20:44:15 cooperating.
20:44:17 That couldn't be further from the truth.
20:44:25 This plan has been a long time in gestation, and we've
20:44:27 made numerous changes over the past many, many months.
20:44:32 For instance, we totally altered and changed the
20:44:37 traffic flow from a one way in and a one way out
20:44:49 hopscotch request.
20:44:50 We reconfigured the entrances and the exit.
20:44:53 We increased setbacks on the south side.
20:44:56 We increased setbacks on the west side.
20:45:00 We have moved the walls.
20:45:06 We have simply been as cooperative as we can be.
20:45:11 Mr. Stutzman will present the details on the site
20:45:14 plan.
20:45:15 And I have a few general comments that I would like

20:45:19 council to consider about the site and the area.
20:45:23 Number one, this is not a huge project, 31 units.
20:45:32 We have a very difficult configured piece of property.
20:45:40 Just to the south of us is the city detention area
20:45:48 that I understand will be developed as a park.
20:45:55 I understand that it is scheduled for improvement.
20:46:01 We have three different zoning classifications on a
20:46:05 piece of property that is two acres in size.
20:46:13 It simply doesn't make any sense.
20:46:15 And I want to emphasize that frontage on 22nd street,
20:46:23 the zoned general commercial.
20:46:26 This plan will eliminate that part of it and
20:46:31 consolidate all the buildings into a very well-planned
20:46:35 residential development.
20:46:40 The site lines within the Tampa enterprise zone -- and
20:46:44 I don't mean to tell you the implications and the
20:46:48 desires of the city that are enunciated in that plan.
20:46:57 This is affordable housing, backed by private money,
20:47:06 but affordable housing.
20:47:07 We are also within the East Tampa overlay district,
20:47:12 which encourages development in East Tampa,
20:47:16 redevelopment, rehab, one of the most foremost

20:47:25 programs of the city over the past several months.
20:47:27 The request is consistent with the future land use
20:47:34 plan.
20:47:35 And I urge you to read that quite closely.
20:47:39 I would like to reserve any comment after the
20:47:43 presentation by Mr. Stutzman.
20:47:54 >>> Jim Stutzman, address 3314 Henderson Boulevard,
20:47:58 suite 108 in Tampa, and I have been sworn.
20:48:01 I'm not sure where the police are for that.
20:48:07 But I'll go over the site plan, and show what we are
20:48:12 proposing, and where some of the compromises have been
20:48:15 made for this.
20:48:23 >> There's a hand mike that you can take with you.
20:48:33 >>> The subject property is a little over two acres
20:48:39 and this is 22nd street. This is east Osborne.
20:48:43 The commercial zoning that Mr. Spicola spoke of is in
20:48:47 this location.
20:48:47 This part is RM-24 currently.
20:48:50 And in general, this section is, I believe, RS-50 at
20:48:54 this point.
20:48:56 The property owners did vacate this portion of
20:48:59 poinsettia, and some of the graphics that still shows

20:49:02 as a public right-of-way, but it has been vacated as a
20:49:06 street, and at the request of the stormwater
20:49:08 department, we did keep all our structures out of that
20:49:13 36-foot easement that still does exist for utilities.
20:49:17 And finally our stormwater to run into the pond is in
20:49:20 this location.
20:49:23 The surrounding uses include a few commercial uses in
20:49:26 this location.
20:49:28 There's a church in this location.
20:49:29 There's a residence by the church in this location.
20:49:33 And then we do have single-family to the west.
20:49:38 We have a total of 31 single-family attached units,
20:49:42 gives us a density of about 16 units per acre.
20:49:46 There are two types of units.
20:49:47 There are 16 of the ten units which are eight units
20:49:52 which do have the garages, and the garages would
20:49:56 extend out seven feet.
20:49:59 There would not be a 20-foot garage out into the
20:50:03 driveway.
20:50:13 These structures are manufactured in this area, and
20:50:16 the design of those gives us very few limitations.
20:50:20 We could not put a front door and a sidewalk in this

20:50:24 location.
20:50:25 All these fronts are oriented in one direction.
20:50:28 And I think the intent of the overlay district to
20:50:34 minimize the intrusion of garages is very relevant for
20:50:38 single-family homes.
20:50:39 When you have a row of townhouses, it does break up
20:50:42 the facade, instead of one straight line, anywhere
20:50:45 from four to six or eight townhouses, it does create a
20:50:50 little relief in the front of those units.
20:50:52 And we think it does add to the aesthetic quality of
20:50:57 those units.
20:50:59 The second type of unit and the units without a
20:51:03 garage, and then in those we have parking, it's more
20:51:06 like an apartment complex parking but there are no
20:51:09 garages, and they are different types of units.
20:51:11 Both of these units are two-story in nature.
20:51:16 We did try to save as many trees as possible.
20:51:19 We had moved the units around.
20:51:21 This is probably the fifth or sixth version of the
20:51:24 site plan that we originally submitted.
20:51:29 The areas where we are having trouble complying with
20:51:32 staff concerns, the first one would be in this area,

20:51:34 where we originally had an 8-foot setback, and push
20:51:40 the units to the west, the fact that we are trying to
20:51:42 save a grand tree in this location, but we had to move
20:51:45 the access road over which starts to squeeze.
20:51:49 What we did do is extend these units to -- it's a
20:51:55 ten-foot setback.
20:51:56 And then we did add two foot on top of the 6-foot PVC
20:52:01 fence, and every ten feet provide visual screaming.
20:52:07 Also, the home to the west is approximately 12 feet
20:52:12 from our property line.
20:52:14 That gives us a little over 20 feet for separation of
20:52:16 the building.
20:52:18 Another area of concern in the staff report was the
20:52:21 6-foot block wall at the entrances.
20:52:24 And we feel that those are critical for the project.
20:52:27 We originally had those 6-foot block walls closer to
20:52:33 the driveway.
20:52:34 Staff did request we move those back at least 12 feet.
20:52:37 A lot of that I believe was to make sure there wasn't
20:52:39 a problem at the triangle accessing the main road.
20:52:43 We feel that that 6-foot block wall is important
20:52:45 because it will provide some form of noise

20:52:49 attenuation, along busy streets, and it will provide
20:52:55 visible screening, individual screening for again
20:52:58 along those streets.
20:53:03 And there will be a gate on the 22nd street entrance.
20:53:05 The access will be one way coming in Osborne and
20:53:08 exiting on 22nd street.
20:53:11 So it does provide some sense of security at that end
20:53:16 of the project.
20:53:20 We feel the design, it does provide a transition from
20:53:22 the more intense uses along 22nd street.
20:53:26 Staff shows zoning map and land use map and you can
20:53:29 see there were very intense uses in zoning, in land
20:53:32 use plan categories along 22nd street.
20:53:35 We still are providing that transition to the more
20:53:37 traditional single-family neighborhood to the west.
20:53:45 And we do feel that this would be an appropriate
20:53:47 in-fill.
20:53:48 And we have tried to accommodate staff concerns as
20:53:50 much as we could.
20:53:54 Ms. Saul-Sena, the elevation did not show any windows
20:53:57 on the side of the structure, but in fact there would
20:53:59 be windows there.

20:54:01 That elevation shows what it would look like,
20:54:05 because -- there would be windows on the end of the
20:54:12 units.
20:54:14 >> Since you will be coming back in you can show us
20:54:16 how it will look.
20:54:17 >>> Correct.
20:54:18 I could do that.
20:54:27 Basically in a covers the issues I wanted to address
20:54:30 and our tree person would like to make a few comments.
20:54:33 Before she speaks, I will show some other photos of
20:54:36 elevations.
20:54:37 I'm not sure if we provided these in the original
20:54:39 packet.
20:54:40 But I will show those.
20:54:42 The different unit types.
20:54:47 >> They were provided.
20:54:48 >>> These were?
20:54:49 This is the unit without the garage.
20:54:59 This does show the A-type units.
20:55:07 >> Anderson Mesniak, landscape architects.
20:55:22 I have been sworn.
20:55:23 3814 Riverview drive, Tampa.

20:55:25 This project was approached in a good manner.
20:55:31 The team decided that the first thing that would
20:55:35 happen is looking at the tree issues, since we knew
20:55:40 there was going to be quite a few issues.
20:55:42 So before the pen went to paper or computer was turned
20:55:48 on, I went out to the site, evaluated all the existing
20:55:51 trees, and then came back with a report of which trees
20:55:55 were in good condition and which ones should be saved,
20:55:58 and also the protected radiuses, City of Tampa code.
20:56:05 This report went to the planner, and then he started
20:56:09 to arrange the buildings and the roadways and the
20:56:11 utilities according to the setback requirements and so
20:56:15 forth.
20:56:18 This is the best way to start a project.
20:56:20 And a lot of times I'm called into projects where they
20:56:23 lay out the building and the roadway and then they
20:56:27 say, oh, we forgot about the trees, and we are brought
20:56:29 in at the last minute.
20:56:31 So, you know, I think it was a really good team effort
20:56:34 that we were brought in early in this project to help
20:56:37 facilitate, you know, saving as many trees as
20:56:39 possible, because they are going to provide a lot of

20:56:43 value for the project overall.
20:56:54 >> What about on the 22nd street side by the northern
20:56:56 building there aren't any trees according to the site
20:56:58 plan.
20:56:59 Could you add one there?
20:57:00 Because it's going to be a pretty stark walk.
20:57:03 And a heavily used walkway because of kids going to
20:57:06 the school.
20:57:06 >>> Yes, we can add trees.
20:57:09 I don't see a problem.
20:57:10 I don't think anyone would have an objection to be
20:57:12 that.
20:57:12 >> A shade tree.
20:57:13 >>> Oh, yeah.
20:57:15 Live oak is the best.
20:57:16 >> Good.
20:57:17 >>> We met after the plan was laid out, we met with
20:57:21 the Parks Department staff three times on the site.
20:57:26 Mary mentioned that we actually went and staked out
20:57:29 the buildings that were in question.
20:57:31 We talked about the canopy Heights, you know, the root
20:57:35 zone, you know, and what we could do to change the

20:57:38 plan.
20:57:39 We did eliminate units.
20:57:41 We changed around the unit type.
20:57:44 And we changed the configuration of where the spaces
20:57:48 and the gaps between the units would be to try to
20:57:51 satisfy all of the requirements, you know, and save
20:57:55 the trees.
20:57:57 We did not meet every single requirement that they
20:58:02 had, but we came very close, and I think the plan that
20:58:06 we came up with is going to provide a very
20:58:11 aesthetically pleasing community.
20:58:13 I don't think that any of the trees are going to be --
20:58:17 that we are preserving are going to be in danger, and
20:58:21 it will be an improvement to the neighborhood.
20:58:33 >>CHAIRMAN: Single-family there anyone in the public
20:58:34 that wants ton speak on this item, item number 11?
20:58:38 If you are going to speak, would you please come up
20:58:39 and speak?
20:58:40 >>JILL FINNEY: Land Development Coordination.
20:58:44 I want to reiterate the conditions that the petitioner
20:58:47 has stated tonight that staff has not seen or reviewed
20:58:50 that.

20:58:50 So thank you.
20:58:53 >>> Good afternoon. James Hargrett, 2002 east Innes
20:59:09 street in Tampa.
20:59:10 I'm the owner of the property that's next door,
20:59:13 adjacent to it to the north.
20:59:14 My property is on the corner of 22nd and Osborne
20:59:17 Avenue.
20:59:19 I have been there for a little over 25 years.
20:59:23 It's been a long dry spell.
20:59:25 East Tampa is a very difficult place to attract
20:59:28 private money.
20:59:32 And this project across the street, we have houses but
20:59:37 here we have an opportunity, I believe, to get some
20:59:39 high quality, affordable housing with the school, the
20:59:52 first in a long time in that area that provided some
20:59:57 positive movement.
20:59:58 But as you can see from the surrounding property,
21:00:02 there's a lot of vacant property that's been vacant
21:00:04 for 25 years, nothing has been happening, and here we
21:00:09 have somebody who is willing to risk private money.
21:00:12 I would encourage you to consider it favorably.
21:00:23 >> Good evening, council. My name is Betty Wiggins.

21:00:26 And I'm here to speak on behalf of this project,
21:00:31 poinsettia development.
21:00:35 I'm CEO of the East Tampa business and civic
21:00:38 association located at 2814-22nd street which is down
21:00:42 the street just a little bit.
21:00:47 Our neighborhood association encompasses a large
21:00:50 geographical area in East Tampa which according to
21:00:56 some of your official figures about 14,000 people.
21:00:59 I'm also actively involved with the East Tampa
21:01:01 community revitalization partnership, and I am an
21:01:06 immediate past advisory committee member.
21:01:09 But I hasten to add that I am not speaking for the
21:01:12 partnership.
21:01:18 I can say as a plane community citizen I appreciate
21:01:20 your support in the revitalization efforts that are
21:01:25 planned and underway in Tampa.
21:01:28 And CEO of East Tampa for whom I speak, I can attest
21:01:33 to the fact that we have advocated for many years for
21:01:36 a holistic approach to community revitalization.
21:01:44 This be includes decent affordable housing.
21:01:48 We have built and marketed over 100 single-family
21:01:51 homes as participants in the city's affordable housing

21:01:55 program since the program was regenerated in about
21:01:59 1999.
21:02:01 But not withstanding the success our single-family
21:02:08 homes had, we recognize, as you do, that multifamily
21:02:12 homes, attached homes, are also viable and sometimes
21:02:19 preferred alternatives in the affordable housing
21:02:23 arena.
21:02:23 And there are reasons for this.
21:02:26 Sometimes a lot 35 feet wade for single-family homes,
21:02:32 and you know the area, especially Commissioner Scott,
21:02:35 and -- I'm sorry, council person Scott, and Miller,
21:02:39 and the rest of you who have become very familiar with
21:02:42 it.
21:02:47 But we are asking you to approve this project.
21:02:49 We want to send a good message to developers when they
21:02:52 bring forth good projects.
21:02:54 And we don't support everything.
21:02:55 But we think that this one is one that -- these are
21:03:00 not high-rise buildings.
21:03:06 They are two stories.
21:03:08 And they are not intruding in the midst of anybody's
21:03:10 residential neighborhood.

21:03:13 And most importantly, however, this project will
21:03:16 contribute to the tax base, the tax base which East
21:03:21 Tampa sorely needs.
21:03:23 And we need to increase that tax base.
21:03:27 You have received from our organization, in December
21:03:31 you received a letter of support, and this month you
21:03:34 received a copy of that letter, just in case you
21:03:37 couldn't find that one.
21:03:38 And we sent you another request asking you to support
21:03:42 it.
21:03:42 So I'm here, this is the third time now.
21:03:46 I'm asking you on behalf of our organization to
21:03:49 support this.
21:03:53 Al Davis came to our neighborhood association and
21:03:56 voted unanimously that in October to support this
21:04:00 project.
21:04:00 So we are asking you to let this one be a winner.
21:04:05 Thank you so much.
21:04:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Wiggins, I wanted to recognize
21:04:09 you for your service not only in your current capacity
21:04:13 but of course in your past capacity on City Council,
21:04:15 and we appreciate all you have done for our community.

21:04:17 And I also belatedly want to recognize senator
21:04:25 Hargrett for your service as well.
21:04:28 I apologize.
21:04:30 >>> Thank you so much.
21:04:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone else that came in and needs to
21:04:41 be sworn, please raise your right hand.
21:04:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you plan on speaking tonight and
21:04:45 you. Been sworn, please raise your right hand.
21:04:49 (Oath administered by Clerk)
21:04:56 >> Joseph Perez.
21:04:58 I own the property at 2003 east Osborne.
21:05:01 The property adjacent to the Osborne entrance to the
21:05:06 project.
21:05:09 My piece of property is a little bit different than
21:05:11 the rest of them on 20th street.
21:05:14 On 20th street, the western boundary of this
21:05:18 project abuts to the very back of their property line.
21:05:22 I am the house that faces Osborne, and basically the
21:05:29 setback of 10 feet from the western boundary is really
21:05:34 too close, in my view, for comfort.
21:05:39 Everybody on 20th street and adjacent ton this
21:05:43 project with a single-story home, particularly mine,

21:05:47 is going to be, I believe, the first four units, are
21:05:51 going to be ten foot from the property line, about
21:05:54 even with my structure, and then have a two-story
21:05:57 structure to the east, which is, you know, like a
21:06:03 white elephant there, so to speak, and it just too
21:06:07 much.
21:06:09 I also have concerns about traffic entering off of
21:06:13 Osborne because the entrance is going to be very close
21:06:15 to the western boundary.
21:06:18 I think there are some tree issues that need to be
21:06:22 looked at a little closer.
21:06:23 One of the trees in particular on my property will
21:06:25 have to be, I guess, cut or trimmed.
21:06:29 It looks like it's a very old camphor tree.
21:06:33 I would venture to say it's one of the oldest trees in
21:06:36 the city.
21:06:37 I encourage you to come out and look at some of the
21:06:40 trees.
21:06:43 It just seems like they are trying to put a square peg
21:06:46 in around hole.
21:06:47 Mr. Spicola stated it's a very difficult piece of
21:06:50 property, and I believe it is.

21:06:52 And I believe they are trying to fit 31 units in, you
21:06:57 know, a residential, you know, area, that just doesn't
21:07:01 con for.
21:07:02 Everything is one story.
21:07:05 Many of the people on this room live on 20th
21:07:08 street that are for this project, but I doubt it since
21:07:10 I have been talking to most of them.
21:07:13 And that's really it.
21:07:14 I think there's a better place for the project, or
21:07:18 more changes need to be made.
21:07:20 It doesn't each really sound like all the plans or
21:07:25 made all the can changes in the plan they presented
21:07:28 and I think it's a little burden for the neighborhood.
21:07:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could you point out where your home
21:07:36 is?
21:07:38 It not clear.
21:07:40 >>> My property is right here.
21:07:59 I'm 2003.
21:08:02 The entrance to the project, they purchased, I
21:08:05 believe, the property at 2005.
21:08:08 And that's going to be the entrance right along the
21:08:11 western boundary.

21:08:13 Another concern I may have is I can see security gate
21:08:19 on the entrance of the project.
21:08:20 And, you know, 31 units, two cars per unit, everyone
21:08:24 is leaving three or four times a day, I can see that
21:08:27 gate opening, you know, three or 400 times a day.
21:08:31 You know, 20 feet or so, 25 feet or so from two of my
21:08:35 three bedrooms.
21:08:39 You know, also is prefabricated construction.
21:08:46 I have seen prefabricated homes.
21:08:48 I have never seen prefabricated multi-dwellings.
21:08:52 And it's kind of like the hotel scenario.
21:08:54 Five years from now, is it going to be Jackson
21:08:57 Heights?
21:08:59 You know, what is it going to look like?
21:09:01 I also am going to have four single-family homes
21:09:05 attached, not just one ten feet from our property
21:09:08 line.
21:09:09 Are they going to be throwing clothes over on the
21:09:12 fence, drying clothes?
21:09:14 And I'm going to have four families, not one family,
21:09:17 ten feet from the property line, you know.
21:09:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Talk to me a little about the tree,

21:09:23 your tree, this close to the property line.
21:09:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Madam Chair, point of order.
21:09:28 Excuse me for a minute.
21:09:29 Madam Chair.
21:09:30 To help our process be good and if people would simply
21:09:34 get three minutes and then we ask questions.
21:09:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm sorry.
21:09:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We will let them have three minute and
21:09:39 then ask them questions. That way we don't give the
21:09:42 time into some kind of --
21:09:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
21:09:45 Finish, sir.
21:09:46 >>> that's pretty much it.
21:09:48 Square foot.
21:09:48 Round hole.
21:09:53 >>GWEN MILLER: You have another question?
21:09:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
21:09:55 It was just about the tree.
21:09:56 And it's close to the property line.
21:10:02 >>> Right.
21:10:03 I'm almost positive that's one of the trees that's
21:10:05 going to have to be addressed for the project.

21:10:09 Maybe one of the three people.
21:10:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
21:10:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
21:10:20 >>> My name is Gerard Madison and I have been sworn.
21:10:25 Twice.
21:10:27 I have been working with this project for about two
21:10:30 years now.
21:10:32 We have reshaped it, replanted.
21:10:34 We have worked different plans top try to get a good
21:10:38 project here.
21:10:40 We have been in the community for that long.
21:10:42 We have talked to the neighbors there. We have talked
21:10:44 to the minister of the church there.
21:10:47 We have not done anything in an underhanded way.
21:10:50 We have let them know exactly what we want them to do.
21:10:52 From day one the intent of this project was to build
21:10:54 an affordable units for first-time home buyers,
21:10:59 preferably school teachers.
21:11:01 We think it's a great area for teachers just north of
21:11:04 magnet school and south Dale Middleton school.
21:11:09 I teach school.
21:11:13 I have been teaching school.

21:11:14 I know the plight of school teachers.
21:11:16 I know they have a difficult time trying to get loans
21:11:19 to buy houses.
21:11:22 We will work with financial institution that is will
21:11:24 give them credit training or financial training, get
21:11:29 them into credit shape and give them a competitive
21:11:35 loan once they complete the training.
21:11:36 We think this is a good area for this project.
21:11:38 We are looking forward to getting the project underway
21:11:41 so we can start making the houses particularly for
21:11:46 school teachers as a first-time home buyer.
21:11:50 We are requesting you approve what we are trying to
21:11:53 do.
21:11:54 Thank you very much.
21:11:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
21:11:55 Next.
21:11:56 Anyone else want to speak?
21:12:02 >>> My name is Charles Davis.
21:12:16 Church of Christ.
21:12:17 We are associated with this project.
21:12:18 And the property, I want to give some historical
21:12:22 background of whereof we come from.

21:12:25 The gentleman previously who was up, and was talking
21:12:30 about his property, I think he failed to tell you a
21:12:37 reason of concern to mine is it not homestead.
21:12:40 We bought the property, our church, some number of
21:12:43 years ago, and our intent was to build single-family
21:12:48 homes that were affordable.
21:12:50 And we found that the properties were multi-zoned, and
21:12:57 it's very difficult to do that.
21:12:58 We started out with 12 homes.
21:13:00 And trying to build them there.
21:13:05 And we found that it was difficult to dop that because
21:13:09 what happened, because of drainage, and had to reduce
21:13:14 the number of homes to nine.
21:13:16 And then that generated additional problems in terms
21:13:20 of infrastructure put there,
21:13:25 3, $4,000.
21:13:28 So we weren't able to do that.
21:13:30 So I was able to make contact with some investors, and
21:13:36 we came up with the idea of putting town homes.
21:13:40 And that's where we are today.
21:13:42 And I think we have tried over the month and over the
21:13:45 years to adjust all -- address all of these concerns.

21:14:00 And.
21:14:00 (Work Session).
21:14:01 As best we can to do what we can.
21:14:03 And in order to keep it affordable, I think what we
21:14:06 need to do is to be the very best we can to oblige all
21:14:13 the needs of city staff, to do without making them
21:14:19 unaffordable.
21:14:20 And I think it's a good thing that in East Tampa, I
21:14:22 think of myself as a progressive minority if you want
21:14:27 to say preacher or some of the folks who live right in
21:14:30 the neighborhood trying to do something.
21:14:31 So I think I think it will say something to other
21:14:39 cities, and I think it will say something to other
21:14:41 people that here a local church group can come
21:14:45 together and develop a project like we have.
21:14:47 The surrounding area meets what we are trying to do.
21:14:53 And homes in the area, and there's a lot of vacant
21:14:59 land there, and nobody wanted to address it so we
21:15:03 decided to step out and right now trying to build
21:15:07 affordable homes.
21:15:08 So I would admonish you, beseech you, if you may, to
21:15:13 pass the project, and let us get on so that we can do

21:15:16 what we are trying to do, and the church has made
21:15:20 itself available to find people who want to live
21:15:23 there.
21:15:25 And to maybe purchase a home.
21:15:28 So I would certainly think that you ought to look at
21:15:31 it in the holistic way and look at it in the way of
21:15:34 some improvement in East Tampa by involving some
21:15:37 investors and groups.
21:15:39 And the bell is ringing as I speak so I'll stop.
21:15:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone else?
21:15:51 Come up and speak, sir.
21:15:53 >>> Council members, good evening.
21:15:56 My name is Robinson Pech, and I own 2005 Osborne
21:16:03 Avenue, one -- part of the subject property.
21:16:06 And just like Mr. Perez, mine was a rental property.
21:16:16 My dream was to build this kind of condo in my half an
21:16:20 acre.
21:16:21 But I realized it was going to be very difficult for
21:16:25 me, and based on the amount of money to do a project
21:16:31 like that.
21:16:32 So he called me and said that he wanted to -- he
21:16:39 wanted me to sell my -- he wanted to buy my property.

21:16:46 And I asked him why.
21:16:47 And when I sit down with him, and he tell me exactly
21:16:52 why, the project he was going to do, and I was
21:16:55 touched, because that was -- I mean, that was my
21:16:58 dream.
21:17:01 I didn't want to give at way, I mean really, because I
21:17:05 realized if they had done the project, my property
21:17:08 would be more valuable.
21:17:11 Just like after the project, finished with the house,
21:17:17 it would have more value.
21:17:19 So that is the reason that I let him have my half an
21:17:24 acre.
21:17:25 So they can build some affordable house, and people
21:17:29 can be able to have condo which would not be able to
21:17:36 do if the project wasn't done.
21:17:38 So I am very pleased to be here on behalf not just
21:17:47 because multifamily my property is part of this
21:17:49 project but because I believe that it's going to be a
21:17:51 very good -- for East Tampa and it's going to be an
21:17:57 improvement for the city and East Tampa.
21:17:59 Thank you.
21:18:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Where did you say your property was?

21:18:02 Is.
21:18:03 >>> 2005 Osborne Avenue.
21:18:06 >> Which is a house?
21:18:08 >>> Which is part of the --
21:18:14 >> There's a church there.
21:18:16 >>> Yes, there's a church here.
21:18:21 Exactly where the entrance will be.
21:18:23 >> In front of the church?
21:18:24 >>> No.
21:18:25 It's going to be exactly where the entrance will be
21:18:27 for the project.
21:18:28 >> That's where the church is.
21:18:29 The church, that's the only entrance to go back in
21:18:35 there.
21:18:35 So where is the property?
21:18:37 >>> This is the subject property.
21:18:43 Where the entrance will be.
21:18:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Oh, the land behind that church was
21:18:47 yours.
21:18:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is the entrance.
21:18:53 >>> We got a contract but it is not closed.
21:19:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?

21:19:10 Petitioner?
21:19:13 >>> One of the petitioners, the property owner.
21:19:26 In addressing Mr. Perez's concern, first, you know,
21:19:29 there's nothing bad about a two-story home.
21:19:35 They are permitted.
21:19:36 They are all over the city.
21:19:38 The matter of the trees.
21:19:40 We have already moved the units next to that tree to
21:19:45 the east and increased the setback.
21:19:50 And again I want to repeat there will be some 22 feet
21:19:53 between his building and our building, not to mention
21:19:58 the six-foot fence, two-foot lattice and planted
21:20:04 vines.
21:20:07 There's a lot of words and numbers in this report.
21:20:10 You have heard the sentiment of people who are truly
21:20:13 interested in the area.
21:20:17 This is private money.
21:20:20 We are replacing a hodgepodge situation there.
21:20:25 We are doing our small part to bring this under a
21:20:30 consistent plan.
21:20:35 It is in an enterprise zone.
21:20:44 I don't think you can describe this request as having

21:20:48 a negative impact in the community when all was said
21:20:52 and done.
21:20:52 There's going to be about $5.5 million put into this
21:20:57 project.
21:20:58 We urge your approval and be happy to answer any more
21:21:02 questions that you might have.
21:21:06 >> Okay.
21:21:06 Go ahead.
21:21:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I have a series of questions.
21:21:12 First of all it's a beautiful piece of property.
21:21:15 Itch driven this area for 28 years.
21:21:17 And there's a gorgeous piece of property.
21:21:22 Secondly, I guess I'm concerned -- I guess the
21:21:27 question is to senator Hargrett the barbecue stand
21:21:31 right there, is that yours, is that going to be moved,
21:21:34 is that going to stay there?
21:21:37 >> Just a temporary rental.
21:21:43 I was trying to help somebody get in business and one
21:21:45 of the people that was operating on the street, and he
21:21:48 needed a place for -- the people were driving him off
21:21:53 the street.
21:21:54 I allowed him to use that.

21:21:56 It was originally a garage building, or a storage
21:22:00 building for the property in front of it.
21:22:07 >> This development takes place in, many my property
21:22:13 becomes something that can be developed.
21:22:15 I think --
21:22:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't blame you about that.
21:22:27 Let me just finish up also.
21:22:29 I guess I'm trying to get a visualization of the
21:22:31 entrance on Osborne, and actually you got one coming
21:22:37 in, coming out on 22nd street.
21:22:39 Is that right?
21:22:41 What was the rationale on Osborne as opposed to 22nd?
21:22:47 >> That's what staff strongly hinted they wanted.
21:22:53 We originally had it two lanes.
21:22:59 And transportation said, no, they didn't think that
21:23:02 was appropriate.
21:23:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
21:23:08 To follow up, also, the next question is, how are you
21:23:12 all going to work with staff?
21:23:14 I have concern about a couple of the waivers.
21:23:16 One was, what the issue is on the transportation piece
21:23:20 for Hartline, I guess they want a pad there and you

21:23:24 all said you don't want a pad or something.
21:23:26 What is that?
21:23:31 You are requesting -- they asked for a waiver.
21:23:37 >>> I can speak to the pad question.
21:23:39 There are bus stops half a block north of 22nd.
21:23:48 There are bus stops in the middle of the city property
21:23:55 on our side and the other side of 22nd.
21:23:57 That's approximately three blocks.
21:23:59 And then two blocks beyond that there are more bus
21:24:07 stops.
21:24:07 If we acceded to Hartline's request, well, we can't.
21:24:14 For one thing, there's a grand tree exactly where they
21:24:18 want to put a pad.
21:24:20 And our thought is that it can be easily done on the
21:24:27 city property that already has a bus stop.
21:24:30 It can be improved.
21:24:31 It can be sheltered without intruding.
21:24:37 Let me show you
21:24:46 This is the property.
21:24:48 These are bus stops.
21:24:51 Bus stops.
21:24:52 Bus stop.

21:24:53 Bus stop.
21:24:56 This little square right here is where they want to
21:25:03 go.
21:25:04 Frankly there's no room for it.
21:25:10 Unless we take out at least one grand tree.
21:25:12 To me it makes more sense.
21:25:14 This is one -- we are told to put an easily
21:25:22 approachable in-and-out bus stop there with the
21:25:26 appropriate shelter.
21:25:27 >> One other question.
21:25:30 Let me ask staff to talk to us about, because in their
21:25:34 report they have said that they find the property --
21:25:38 the project to be inconsistent.
21:25:39 So we need to address, how do we work with this to get
21:25:45 them to -- for this to.
21:25:47 To be consistent?
21:25:48 Because now I will tell you, I don't have a big
21:25:51 concern about it, right across the street you have,
21:25:55 you know, two-story building.
21:25:57 You know the area.
21:25:58 You know that.
21:26:00 Right across the street.

21:26:06 It's right across the street.
21:26:08 So don't have too much concern about that.
21:26:10 But I do know, I think that's the only apartment
21:26:15 complex, though, in that area there.
21:26:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Right.
21:26:18 >>JILL FINNEY: Land Development Coordination.
21:26:20 I have been sworn.
21:26:22 If I can address the issue.
21:26:27 These are requirements from ADA for Hart, to be
21:26:35 accommodated and that's why where ADA access to the
21:26:37 site and otherwise there will not be ADA compliance.
21:26:40 So that's really Hart's objections.
21:26:42 >> That's an ADA requirement.
21:26:44 >>> Yes.
21:26:45 >> Okay.
21:26:46 >>> And as far as -- we are not objecting to
21:26:52 compatibility based on use.
21:26:54 It's the configuration on the site that we are
21:26:56 objecting to.
21:26:58 And they stated that they are going to stick with --
21:27:04 we are going to remain consistent in having our
21:27:07 inconsistencies.

21:27:08 We are going to object regardless based on design
21:27:11 standards.
21:27:12 From LDC.
21:27:13 >> So based on design standards.
21:27:16 >> Yes.
21:27:18 Yes.
21:27:25 And that being compatible with the single-family
21:27:27 residential abutting to the west.
21:27:30 >> The set back is?
21:27:31 >>> Ten feet right now.
21:27:32 Standard is 15 feet.
21:27:34 >> All right.
21:27:39 >>GWEN MILLER: There's a church right there. It's a
21:27:43 dirt road.
21:27:45 Is that going to be a paved road in there?
21:27:48 >>> Yes.
21:27:49 >>GWEN MILLER: How are the church people going to
21:27:51 park?
21:27:52 They don't have much parking as it is.
21:27:56 They park on both sides.
21:28:01 >>> I can let the pastor speak to that.
21:28:03 I'm not sure what they are going to do on that.

21:28:05 >> Because it's a dead-end.
21:28:10 You can come through that street, dead-end.
21:28:15 There's trees.
21:28:15 To the west, dead-end to the back of those houses.
21:28:18 So -- right to the west.
21:28:22 >>> Okay.
21:28:23 To the west is a different issue.
21:28:25 >> There's no opening there.
21:28:28 The only way you can come in is from Osborne and it
21:28:30 goes under the trees.
21:28:32 It not an open end there.
21:28:34 The church is right there.
21:28:35 And the church members go in.
21:28:38 That's as far as they can go.
21:28:39 You can't go through there.
21:28:40 You can't even turn left and go to 22nd street from
21:28:43 behind the church.
21:28:45 I can't see how they are going to sit there.
21:28:48 And to the south is a tension pole.
21:28:52 >>> Well that's the usual.
21:28:53 >> You: How are you going to do with the retention
21:28:56 pond back there?

21:28:57 >>> That's what we are sigh saying as far as
21:28:59 inconsistent -- we don't believe it compatible.
21:29:02 >> And I don't either.
21:29:03 Because I don't see how they are going to --
21:29:05 >>> And sometimes it just doesn't work on a site.
21:29:08 And that's what our stance is Snoopy don't see how the
21:29:12 church say they are going along with it and I know the
21:29:15 church has problem parking because nothing but a dirt
21:29:19 road.
21:29:19 And they don't have but five parking spaces and they
21:29:24 either park to the right.
21:29:25 They own that house across the street.
21:29:27 And they park over there.
21:29:29 I can't see it.
21:29:31 I think it's inconsistent from my sight.
21:29:33 Mr. Caetano?
21:29:35 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Spicola, do you have a praise
21:29:38 yet for what you are going to sell these units for as
21:29:40 affordable housing?
21:29:48 >>> My client advises 165,000.
21:29:55 May I address?

21:30:03 I think there may be some misunderstanding, Ms.
21:30:06 Miller.
21:30:14 This is the poinsettia.
21:30:16 Nothing has changed in it.
21:30:21 I think that's where the parking is going on now.
21:30:26 >>GWEN MILLER:
21:30:33 >>> My point being we closed the one on the south from
21:30:46 this -- from this point on.
21:30:51 And that is where they were parking, I have been
21:30:56 advised.
21:31:03 This is totally whereof the public right-of-way was.
21:31:05 That public right-of-way still exists.
21:31:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Nothing but a dirt road.
21:31:11 Not even a paved street.
21:31:12 >>> I know it's a dirt road.
21:31:14 But --
21:31:17 >> There's nothing in there.
21:31:21 Ms. Saul-Sena?
21:31:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
21:31:25 My biggest concern are the objections by the staff
21:31:28 that on 22nd street, which is the street that's used a
21:31:31 lot, people are going to be looking at unit A, a

21:31:36 47-foot blank wall, and somebody says that they are
21:31:39 going to change this.
21:31:42 You also said you are going to be building this
21:31:44 modular housing.
21:31:45 And I need -- before I am willing to go ahead with
21:31:49 anything, I need to know that there's going to be
21:31:51 something more than 47 feet and I'm very concerned of
21:31:58 what this is going to be giving to the street.
21:32:00 There needs to be additional landscaping on 22nd
21:32:03 street, not to the south but to the north, that units
21:32:08 A and B need something other than blank wall.
21:32:10 And I'm very concerned about that on all the sides, of
21:32:14 all the A's and all the B's that are open to their
21:32:17 neighbors.
21:32:18 Otherwise it's just going to be really not residential
21:32:22 in character.
21:32:27 >>> Jim Stetsman again.
21:32:29 The elevation as I said that we submitted were showing
21:32:33 townhouse units that typically when they are matched
21:32:36 up, there's no windows between units.
21:32:38 But on the end unit, there will be windows.
21:32:41 And we can submit elevations that will reflect that.

21:32:44 So there would be windows on the first floor and the
21:32:46 second floor on that 47-foot wall that you are
21:32:49 referring to.
21:32:51 We just can't put a front door there.
21:32:53 And that's one of the things the staff went through.
21:32:55 That's in East Tampa overlay guidelines that you have
21:32:59 a front entrance going out to the --
21:33:03 >> Why don't you take the first two units on A and B
21:33:05 and switch them so it would do what the staff has
21:33:07 requested?
21:33:08 And the reason they made that request is because they
21:33:12 thought it should have doors and there should be a
21:33:15 relationship.
21:33:16 >>> Because of the design characteristics of these
21:33:18 structures, they have to be attached.
21:33:20 Side by side.
21:33:21 So that limits our flexibility on how we can flip them
21:33:24 around.
21:33:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, you have some that -- for
21:33:29 example, on the far west you have two A's between the
21:33:32 picnic area and the place south, that are just two
21:33:37 units.

21:33:38 That proves that you can do that.
21:33:40 >>> Yes.
21:33:40 The A units are limited to twos, and I believe the B
21:33:44 units are limited to groups of three.
21:33:46 >> Well, what if you kept the two A units on the
21:33:49 southern part next to 22nd street, and flipped them so
21:33:51 that they would be -- they would have a relationship
21:33:55 with 22nd street.
21:33:56 You just said you can do that.
21:33:59 That's what the East Tampa design standards demand.
21:34:01 >>> I think Melanie might have a little problem with
21:34:03 that because then we would be having two more
21:34:06 driveways coming out into 22nd street.
21:34:08 >> Have you discussed it with Melanie?
21:34:10 >>> I talked to Melanie quite a bit over the years.
21:34:13 >> I bet she's here now.
21:34:14 I think I see her on the front row.
21:34:17 >>> And I would like to add, do you really want
21:34:21 residences fronting on 22nd street where there's CG
21:34:27 zoning up and down that road on both sides for
21:34:33 literally miles?
21:34:37 I wouldn't want my home to front on 22nd street.

21:34:42 67 and I don't want those people in and out of that
21:34:46 church every day either, coming out on Osborne, they
21:34:49 are going to be back and forth in front of the church
21:34:52 and what are they going to do?
21:34:56 Mr. Dingfelder?
21:35:00 >> Mr. Dingfelder.
21:35:01 >> And I was going to ask Ms. Calloway for her opinion
21:35:05 on all of this.
21:35:06 And there was some assertions made about one waiver,
21:35:13 this and that.
21:35:13 >>> Melanie Calloway, transportation.
21:35:17 One waiver.
21:35:17 The reason why we changed it is because we they wanted
21:35:20 to sub dived these units.
21:35:22 You have to have a minimum of 40 feet of right-of-way
21:35:24 for two way roadway.
21:35:26 But they couldn't meet the 40 feet.
21:35:30 If they made it one way it would be 35.
21:35:33 One way in and one way out.
21:35:34 It's only gated on the exit.
21:35:38 There's a 6-foot masonry wall.
21:35:41 Even though -- maybe they should have a lower wall.

21:35:46 The other part that your question was, what I
21:35:53 understand about a roadway that would like interaction
21:35:59 with the roadway not necessarily means vehicle
21:36:01 interaction but maybe front doors facing the roadway.
21:36:05 That's design criteria to provide front door and
21:36:08 having it face towards A, that's a design standard.
21:36:13 You know, I don't think that would be a big issue
21:36:17 because they could maintain the driveways.
21:36:20 The vehicle access would still be within their
21:36:23 internal driveway.
21:36:24 The door would be facing 22nd.
21:36:26 Is that what you were indicating?
21:36:28 >>> Yes.
21:36:31 So in other words, the driveways wouldn't be going out
21:36:33 to 22nd street.
21:36:35 Just the front doors of the unit, and the unit would
21:36:39 present themselves to 22nd.
21:36:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All right.
21:36:47 Let's March through some of these staff objections and
21:36:49 see if you all are addressing them.
21:36:53 The first objection I think speaks to the -- let's
21:36:56 see, the minimal setback on the west boundary.

21:37:00 Abutting the single-family residential use.
21:37:02 And that's the gentleman who was here.
21:37:05 And you have four units that are very close to the
21:37:08 house.
21:37:08 You also have the constraint of that grand tree across
21:37:10 the street there.
21:37:11 So I realize you are in a tight spot.
21:37:14 But is there -- can you slide those all four units?
21:37:17 I guess they have to fly.
21:37:21 Can you slide them up closer to your lane?
21:37:28 You would have less front yard.
21:37:33 >>> And we could do that.
21:37:34 We would have to relocate a couple parking spots.
21:37:37 Maybe we could put them across the street.
21:37:40 If you move that up five feet, we either lose the
21:37:43 sidewalk, or lose the parking spaces.
21:37:46 But we could play with that and we don't want to lose
21:37:50 any more parking spaces.
21:37:52 >> I think it's important to that gentleman who has
21:37:56 been in the single-family environment for a long time,
21:37:58 and that is a big slab of wall.
21:38:05 >>> All right.

21:38:07 I'm a little bit torn on Ms. Saul Sena's suggestion.
21:38:12 I hear what she's saying on the one hand.
21:38:15 But my only concern is security.
21:38:18 Just because of the high school right across the
21:38:20 street and everything.
21:38:22 At least if you are inside that sliding gate, and
21:38:24 wall, completely inside --
21:38:31 >> It not a gate.
21:38:32 >>>
21:38:32 >>: Yes, it is.
21:38:33 A sliding gate exit only.
21:38:34 So at least if you are inside you have some security,
21:38:36 it keeps the kids from cutting through on their way
21:38:39 home from school probably, and that sort of thing.
21:38:41 So I think there's some benefit to leaving them the
21:38:44 way it is.
21:38:44 But aesthetically, Mrs. Saul-Sena, I think you do have
21:38:47 a point in regard to consistency with the guidelines.
21:38:52 The Hart thing, because I'm on the Hart board so that
21:38:55 kind of piqued my interest.
21:38:58 But have you all talked with Hartline?
21:39:00 Councilman Scott, I read the Hart letter.

21:39:03 They reference ADA but basically they say we want a
21:39:06 new stop there.
21:39:08 And when you build that stop you need to build it ADA
21:39:11 compliant is what the letter said.
21:39:14 So have you talked to them about moving that thing
21:39:16 around?
21:39:16 I'm sure they don't want to deal with a grand tree
21:39:19 either.
21:39:19 But have you had any conversation directly with Hart
21:39:22 on that?
21:39:24 >>> The problem, they said it wouldn't work because of
21:39:31 the tree.
21:39:31 It's actually very close to the intersection of
21:39:33 Osborne and 22nd street also, which created some
21:39:36 problems with traffic.
21:39:39 >> So are they willing to waive the letter?
21:39:44 >>> Let us see exactly what transpired.
21:39:51 >> Well, you are coming back for an additional first
21:39:53 reading under any U.S. because you have to tweak this
21:39:56 thing.
21:39:57 So between now and the first reading you can get back
21:39:59 with Hart and see if they can, you know, waive the

21:40:02 request, or let you contribute, you know, or something
21:40:05 like that.
21:40:06 >>> Okay.
21:40:06 We can work on that.
21:40:08 Mr. Dingfelder, if I could just go back to one thing,
21:40:11 you mentioned that Mrs. Saul-Sena addressed and that
21:40:15 would be putting some type of front door.
21:40:19 One of the problems with the way they are designed is
21:40:21 you would then have a front entrance going into a
21:40:24 bedroom.
21:40:24 >> She was talking about spinning both of those
21:40:27 buildings 90 degrees around.
21:40:30 But I'll let her argue that one.
21:40:33 >>> You have a garage going out towards 22nd street.
21:40:37 >> Right.
21:40:40 Let's talk about parks and rec.
21:40:44 Have we addressed all the park and rec issues?
21:40:49 I see we have stormwater issues.
21:40:50 But how about the tree issues?
21:40:56 >>> We have a submission on the stormwater.
21:40:58 >> On this list that Mr. Spicola has, we did outline
21:41:07 all of the requirements and conditions that the

21:41:09 stormwater group wanted.
21:41:13 I did meet with Steve Seacrest and the fourth one he
21:41:16 was okay with.
21:41:16 We showed him where we did lose the buildings out of
21:41:19 the 36-foot easement.
21:41:20 He said that's fine.
21:41:22 The other three we kept verbatim.
21:41:24 The D was added at the request of Mary and Dave.
21:41:29 And what it does is say that the stormwater system
21:41:34 will not endanger the root system of the protected
21:41:37 trees that are to remain on the site.
21:41:40 They were concerned about us putting pipes down
21:41:42 through, cutting off the roots, when we did the
21:41:45 stormwater system.
21:41:45 So we have added that condition.
21:41:50 We would also add that we would put tree number 38
21:41:53 identified on the site plan as a waiver, add that as a
21:41:56 waiver as a hazardous grand tree to be removed.
21:42:00 We also would add a condition, a note that would say
21:42:03 pier and lintel foundation will be required where
21:42:05 necessary along the south property line for protected
21:42:10 tree root protection.

21:42:13 These were some things that David and Mary came up
21:42:15 with.
21:42:16 They may still have a little issue with some of the
21:42:19 locations of the building and I'm sure Dave is not shy
21:42:24 and will tell you what those are.
21:42:25 >>> Dave Riley, parks and recreation.
21:42:28 One of the big concerns of course was the stormwater.
21:42:36 They have done a good job with trees and providing
21:42:42 space for the grand trees.
21:42:43 However, I think there was opportunity to be able to
21:42:48 use space to protect the trees better, but I think we
21:42:52 are running into a stone wall because of the packaging
21:42:55 of the unit.
21:42:58 We asked for some specific unit to be moved another
21:43:00 three or four feet, but they are all attached.
21:43:06 If I may take a quick second I would like to point out
21:43:08 one area.
21:43:11 I know it's been a long night.
21:43:13 But as you know, it right here in the green space,
21:43:19 there's two trees left.
21:43:21 We had to ask them from the very beginning, we
21:43:23 identified one of the trees to be a grand tree that's

21:43:26 hazardous and a second tree that was an effective
21:43:30 removal.
21:43:30 Unfortunately, there were several submittals before we
21:43:34 finally agreed to remove those trees.
21:43:36 But yet there's the green space there.
21:43:42 If you look just to the right there's another grand
21:43:44 tree that they are going to have to prune a limb off
21:43:50 of.
21:43:50 We asked them to prune where in order to preserve the
21:43:54 limb.
21:43:54 However again because of the packaging of the units
21:43:57 they have been able to do that.
21:43:58 >> You can only move two by two.
21:44:00 That's what they are saying.
21:44:01 >>> In essence.
21:44:02 >> But you can move two over and then save the --
21:44:08 >> Well again there's a little opportunity to create a
21:44:10 little bit prove Texas on the trees.
21:44:12 I would like some of them -- and these are very big
21:44:15 trees.
21:44:16 I would like to see them meet the 20-foot protected
21:44:20 radius.

21:44:21 But again, I will point out there's a very large, very
21:44:24 beautiful live oak on the west property line.
21:44:26 And you can see those provide a lot of green space for
21:44:30 that tree.
21:44:31 But they have done a good job.
21:44:32 And again, we could improve on this.
21:44:40 >> What's down at the end of the property?
21:44:42 >>> Most of the trees on the south end are Laurel
21:44:45 oaks.
21:44:45 There is one large live oak that's on the stormwater
21:44:48 property.
21:44:50 And then the grand tree on the wet side is a live oak.
21:44:55 And camphor tree that the previous resident spoke on
21:45:00 that's also a grand tree.
21:45:01 >> I think that's all I have.
21:45:06 The only other question I had was I think there was a
21:45:10 comment about the fact that in the East Tampa
21:45:13 district, the garages shouldn't extend.
21:45:16 Have we addressed that one?
21:45:18 >>
21:45:22 >>JILL FINNEY: Land Development Coordination.
21:45:24 I addressed it with petitioner and they said because

21:45:26 of being a appraise fab construction they would not be
21:45:28 able to accommodate that.
21:45:29 >> How far forward do the garages extend in front of
21:45:33 the facade of the house?
21:45:37 >>> Spicola: Seven feet.
21:45:42 >> That's a single garage or double garage?
21:45:44 >>> Single.
21:45:50 An additional 20-foot normal, seven feet.
21:45:56 >> But the only good news is you are not facing the
21:45:59 other parts of the neighborhood, sort of a private
21:46:01 development.
21:46:01 >>> All of these things were inward looking on our
21:46:09 street.
21:46:09 >> Councilman Saul-Sena, I would not agree to have the
21:46:20 units face or the two units facing 22nd.
21:46:23 If I were buying this house, or moving here, I would
21:46:27 not want my front door to face 22nd street.
21:46:32 Now, I would agree to you windows there, just blank, I
21:46:42 would agree with that but I would not want my front
21:46:45 door to face 22nd street.
21:46:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question for staff.
21:46:51 And that is, at what point do you figure -- this area

21:46:58 is pretty low lying, has a lot of currently
21:47:01 undeveloped.
21:47:02 There's going to be 31 units.
21:47:04 There's going to be a lot of driveways and retention
21:47:07 areas and hardscape.
21:47:10 The petitioner is committed to keeping a lot of the
21:47:13 stormwater on the site.
21:47:15 At what point do you figure it just not going to work?
21:47:19 I just am concerned that the petitioner has figured
21:47:23 out for economic reasons that they want to put as many
21:47:26 units as possible to come up with the 31.
21:47:30 I just don't see that if you do all this, that the
21:47:33 people who are located adjacent, who are lower, aren't
21:47:38 going to get flooded, and I just need reassurance that
21:47:41 if we approve this, the other neighbors aren't going
21:47:45 to suffer.
21:47:46 >>JILL FINNEY: Land Development Coordination.
21:47:50 The stormwater engineer has reviewed this and he feels
21:47:53 very secure that if these notes are added, and adhered
21:47:58 to, the requested ones that were handed to Mr. Spicola
21:48:03 that he would find it consistent.
21:48:04 >> And that's the reassurance.

21:48:06 I hope three years from now after a rainstorm that
21:48:11 it's secure.
21:48:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This is direct ohed to senator
21:48:17 Hargrett.
21:48:18 I had an experience down in South Tampa, off of
21:48:20 MacDill, where there is an existing development,
21:48:23 and then a Barb caw went in.
21:48:25 And everybody loves barbecue.
21:48:27 It's good food.
21:48:28 But the smoke probably driving the neighbors crazy,
21:48:33 you know.
21:48:33 And my office got calls for months and months.
21:48:37 And everybody, EPC and everybody and their brother
21:48:40 were involved.
21:48:41 So not trying to chase them out.
21:48:42 But it is a potential conflict if it's one of those
21:48:45 kind of smoky barbecue places so everybody needs to be
21:48:48 aware of that.
21:48:54 >> Other questions by council members?
21:48:59 I'm not going to be able to support it because I can't
21:49:01 see that fitting.
21:49:02 This is not the area to put that many townhouses in

21:49:05 there.
21:49:05 I can't support it because that church is there and I
21:49:08 can't see cars going by that church every day all day
21:49:12 long and people there are during the week, they are
21:49:14 there on Sundays, I don't know how the church is going
21:49:17 to --
21:49:20 >> Reverend Scott was first.
21:49:21 Go ahead.
21:49:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I was going to try a motion here.
21:49:24 >> Stormwater has reviewed these and they were --
21:49:33 >> You are all in agreement with this?
21:49:34 >>> Yes.
21:49:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
21:49:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Marty, we need some changes here.
21:49:44 So do we need to continue?
21:49:50 The changes are so substantial.
21:49:56 It would be appropriate to continue the first reading
21:49:58 and bring it back and limit the conversation the
21:50:01 changes that have been put forth so those people have
21:50:04 spoken will only be able to address those changes.
21:50:07 >> And that would be my motion.
21:50:11 >> I think four weeks to allow staff.

21:50:18 At least four weeks.
21:50:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is there an opening for a continuance
21:50:22 on March 6th -- it would be the evening meeting?
21:50:28 >>> These changes are really substantial so I would
21:50:31 recommend six weeks so they'll have time to revise
21:50:33 their site plans and get them turned in and do it for
21:50:36 proper review.
21:50:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: When is your next opening then?
21:50:45 >>> March 27th.
21:50:49 >>MARY MULHERN: I just have a question why we didn't
21:50:52 continue this at the beginning of the meeting.
21:50:59 >>
21:51:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It's six of one, half dozen of
21:51:08 another.
21:51:09 Now we have narrowed it down to that testimony is in
21:51:12 from all sides, and the only thing that's debatable is
21:51:15 what is on this page.
21:51:16 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll remember that.
21:51:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Did I get a second for the motion?
21:51:26 >> Second.
21:51:31 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: How many in that church, do you
21:51:33 know?

21:51:34 >>GWEN MILLER: I don't know.
21:51:35 A lot of cars there. During the week, too.
21:51:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: May I ask the maker of the motion the
21:51:46 purpose of the continuance is to allow the petitioner
21:51:49 to accomplish -- just so he's clear.
21:51:53 >>> The changes we have discussed this evening, these
21:51:55 particular changes, and councilman Dingfelder has some
21:51:57 other changes now.
21:51:59 Councilwoman Saul-Sena has a few.
21:52:02 The windows, right?
21:52:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And slide a few feet towards the
21:52:11 lane.
21:52:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: To move the setback?
21:52:13 To address the setback?
21:52:15 >> Yes.
21:52:15 >> Five feet to the east.
21:52:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Push the buildings toward the east.
21:52:31 Sir, is that acceptable during the continuance to be
21:52:34 able to do that by that time?
21:52:37 >> What was the date?
21:52:40 >>> March 27th, 6 p.m.
21:52:41 Also, we required to add waivers to the East Tampa

21:52:45 design standards.
21:52:46 Adjusting the two issues that they are not meeting.
21:52:50 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
21:52:51 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
21:52:52 Opposed, Nay.
21:52:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open public hearing number
21:53:02 12.
21:53:05 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
21:53:06 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
21:53:08 Opposed, Nay.
21:53:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Items 12 and 13, I believe, the 12 is
21:53:13 a vacation of a right-of-way, and it's related to item
21:53:17 number 13.
21:53:18 I don't know whether it was the intention of staff to
21:53:20 ask that that be heard together.
21:53:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Do it together?
21:53:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Open number 13.
21:53:26 >> Second.
21:53:28 (Motion carried).
21:53:28 >>JAMES COOK: Land Development Coordination.
21:53:31 I have been sworn.
21:53:33 I will be giving the vacating report.

21:53:36 Jill will be giving the report and Mr. Garcia will be
21:53:39 doing the Planning Commission report.
21:53:44 Petitioner is petitioning to vacate running east from
21:53:48 Westshore Boulevard to CSX railroad.
21:53:52 Petitioner's property, a portion that they seek to
21:53:56 vacate is outlined in yellow.
21:53:58 It's the Westshore circle.
21:54:01 CSX railroad to the east.
21:54:03 McCoy to the south and Westshore to the west.
21:54:09 The shot of Evans street looking east from Westshore
21:54:12 Boulevard toward the dead-end.
21:54:14 Petitioner's property is on the right-hand of the
21:54:17 photo.
21:54:20 A dead-end looking toward the CSX railroad.
21:54:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This is Wenzel Pyle?
21:54:31 >> This is a shot looking west from the dead-end
21:54:35 towards Westshore Boulevard.
21:54:36 Petitioner's parrot is on the left-hand side.
21:54:44 This is the same shot, the view of the stormwater that
21:54:48 exists in that right-of-way.
21:54:49 Once again petitioner's property is on the left-hand
21:54:51 side of the photo.

21:54:55 And this is a shot of the petitioner's property
21:54:56 looking south.
21:54:59 This is the corner of Everett and Westshore.
21:55:03 That's another shot of petitioner's property looking
21:55:05 south on Evans street and dead-end.
21:55:08 And then the unimproved right-of-way, there are a
21:55:10 couple of owners along at the north side of Everett,
21:55:14 and obviously parking a vehicle on the backyard.
21:55:18 Using it as access, which is the basis of public
21:55:18 works' objection to the vacating.
21:55:28 That's my report.
21:55:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Is petitioner here?
21:55:32 You have to say something, too?
21:55:37 >>> I'll be the zoning person at this time before you
21:55:39 go into public comment.
21:55:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead.
21:56:06 >>JILL FINNEY: Land Development Coordination.
21:56:08 I have been sworn.
21:56:09 We are here for petition Z-07-100 located at 6608
21:56:13 South Westshore Boulevard, going from IG industrial
21:56:16 general to PD planned development with residential
21:56:20 multifamily restaurant.

21:56:22 The petitioner is proposing to rezone the property to
21:56:25 construct 274 multifamily residential units and 6,500
21:56:31 square feet of retail restaurant uses.
21:56:34 The 11.37-acre site is surrounded by a mix of
21:56:37 multi-and single-family residential homes and sporadic
21:56:41 neighborhood serving commercial uses in the general
21:56:43 area.
21:56:43 The PD setbacks are as follows.
21:56:46 From the north 100 feet, from the east, 60 feet, from
21:56:49 the south 24 feet, and west 54 feet.
21:56:54 The site will contain four multifamily residential
21:56:57 structures, 6,000 square foot accessory building, with
21:57:02 amenities and leasing, and the southern parcel which
21:57:05 is CDBG considered to be an outparcel will contain
21:57:07 6,500 square feet of retail restaurant uses.
21:57:12 The maximum building height is 64 feet 4 inches.
21:57:16 The required amount of parking is 514 spaces, and 514
21:57:20 spaces are being provided.
21:57:23 The subject, the project is proposing to vacate
21:57:27 Everett street and develop the greenways trail along
21:57:29 the northern portion of the site.
21:57:36 Here we have a zoning map of the local area.

21:57:48 It completely IG with some RM-24 and RM-16 multifamily
21:57:52 to the west of the site.
21:57:53 And the railroad tracks to the east.
21:58:05 To the south on this area you can see the subject
21:58:06 property with Westshore abutting the west.
21:58:14 Here is a picture of the site with the existing
21:58:18 structures.
21:58:22 It's located south of the site.
21:58:27 Here is the site.
21:58:28 Again the overall site.
21:58:31 Here is looking south on Westshore from the site.
21:58:36 This is looking west across the street from the site.
21:58:44 This is north.
21:58:48 The north side of the site.
21:58:57 This year is north of the site.
21:59:04 And this is that single-family residential structure
21:59:06 that is located to the north.
21:59:13 City staff has found this petition to be inconsistent.
21:59:16 However, the applicant revise it is site plan with the
21:59:20 required note from city staff comments, we will amend
21:59:24 the petition -- our position to say that it's
21:59:27 consistent.

21:59:30 I have a document, public hearing, no changes,
21:59:35 additions, and as long as these are met, we will amend
21:59:39 it.
21:59:56 That concludes my presentation.
21:59:58 If you have any questions, I'm here.
22:00:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want this passed to council?
22:00:07 >>> I don't believe they have copies of it, if they
22:00:09 want to review it.
22:00:12 >> We'll get some copies.
22:00:16 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
22:00:35 You have been sworn.
22:00:37 Several additional comments to hit on.
22:00:43 There are several land use categories in the area.
22:00:46 You have public, semi-public use, you have residential
22:00:49 10, residential 20 and 35, the subject property which
22:00:52 is transition use 24, and also across the railroad,
22:00:57 you have transition, 24 also, residential 10,
22:01:03 residential 20.
22:01:05 She's already stated to you what the request is for,
22:01:08 approximately 274 residential units, apartment units,
22:01:12 and you do have an outparcel that will be for the
22:01:15 nonresidential use, commercial outparcel I believe

22:01:18 right on this corner over here that the applicant is
22:01:21 proposing.
22:01:21 You know about the right-of-way issues already.
22:01:30 The uses in the area.
22:01:32 We do have a variety of uses.
22:01:35 You have multifamily uses.
22:01:37 The site up at the northwest, from the parcel.
22:01:42 You also have a multifamily development that's
22:01:44 recently been developed on this.
22:01:49 These units over here that interface the site are
22:01:52 duplexes, and then you have a variety of duplexes,
22:01:55 single-family detached in the area over here.
22:01:59 Of course you have the railroad right-of-way, which
22:02:01 serves as an effective buffer to this basically is a
22:02:08 type of industrial use, but this will probably be
22:02:11 subject to come in a variety of times for different
22:02:14 type of use problems, going to be in some type of
22:02:18 residential use.
22:02:19 I know we have had a lot of inquiries.
22:02:23 Much less intensive.
22:02:24 We do have a residential enclave to the north.
22:02:28 The subject site in question, the transition is 24

22:02:35 hand use category, also has industrial zoning
22:02:38 district.
22:02:39 The application is much less intense than the current
22:02:45 uses that could be faced on the current industrial.
22:02:49 They could develop by right today under the IG or
22:02:53 zoning district standards.
22:03:00 That would allow uses that would be more intensive and
22:03:04 adversely affect this area as you do have a high
22:03:07 residential concentration.
22:03:08 I think most of us know on the lot 68 years there has
22:03:11 been a significant trend toward residential uses and
22:03:14 demand of these properties down here in the South
22:03:17 Westshore and Gandy area to more residential use,
22:03:19 transitioning away from general industrial and light
22:03:22 industrial uses.
22:03:23 That being said, Planning Commission staff found the
22:03:26 proposed request consistent with the comprehensive
22:03:28 plan.
22:03:28 Thank you.
22:03:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
22:03:35 >>> Dave Smith, 401 East Jackson Street, 33602, plan
22:03:39 we are the law firm of Stearns, Weaver Miller for the

22:03:43 petitioner.
22:03:43 I have with us tonight the property owner as well as
22:03:45 the developer, traffic engineer, the civil engineer,
22:03:51 as well as the architect, to answer any questions that
22:03:54 you may come during the presentation.
22:03:56 What I have handed out to you or have handed out to
22:03:58 you is a booklet I will be using to present on the
22:04:02 Elmo.
22:04:03 Everybody should have one.
22:04:08 I think the first thing I will address with in order
22:04:11 is the right-of-way.
22:04:14 As indicated in the staff report there's only one
22:04:23 objection to the vacation of right-of-way.
22:04:24 And that is from transportation.
22:04:25 And they are comment indicates that they are concern
22:04:28 is for ingress and egress to the adjacent rear yards,
22:04:31 the abutting property, single-family homes, and we
22:04:35 have addressed that issue in the site plan and also in
22:04:39 a development agreement and land sale agreement that
22:04:41 will be coming before you at second reading.
22:04:43 But just to orient you again on the right-of-way map,
22:04:48 this piece was recently vacated and exchanged for land

22:04:54 to put the trail on on the other side so basically
22:04:58 right now off greenway trail that comes in and down
22:05:01 the front of Casa Bella and then to the west and
22:05:07 eventually come back and be part of the greenways
22:05:10 trails master plan.
22:05:11 >> Is the trail built?
22:05:13 >>> The trail is built on this side.
22:05:15 >> Okay.
22:05:16 >>> The next section we have is this is the subject
22:05:19 right-of-way that we are asking for vacation.
22:05:22 In looking at this, the first question comes to mind,
22:05:26 why would we want to give up this right-of-way?
22:05:30 And the answer is fairly obvious when we look at the
22:05:33 right-of-way map.
22:05:35 There is no way to extend Everett Street westerly.
22:05:38 It's now been vacated.
22:05:40 But going across the railroad track, there is only a
22:05:44 small piece of property, a strip of property recently
22:05:47 been acquired from the department of interior,
22:05:50 specifically for recreational sale purposes.
22:05:52 It's part of the larger transfer properties in the
22:05:56 department of interior providing all sorts of pieces

22:05:59 of slivers of property from the trail in recreational
22:06:02 use all the way down to MacDill.
22:06:04 So when you look at this piece of property it's an
22:06:06 isolated right-of-way.
22:06:08 The city came into ownership unlike many rights-of-way
22:06:12 that are provided by -- the city actually owns this in
22:06:17 fee.
22:06:17 So it is not where you vacate the right-of-way owners
22:06:21 on either side of the line that revert back to the
22:06:24 ownership.
22:06:25 That's why we have a development agreement and land
22:06:27 sale agreement which will be coming back at second
22:06:28 reading to address the actual transfer of ownership
22:06:32 should the vacation be approved, and the rezoning
22:06:36 moving forward under first reading.
22:06:39 Staff permits indicated there are no public facilities
22:06:44 in this right-of-way.
22:06:45 The only planned public facility in this right-of-way
22:06:47 is anticipated to be the greenway trail.
22:06:52 The drainage ditches that are basically in the back or
22:06:55 shown on the photograph were basically drainage
22:06:57 ditches which are picking up the rear yard drainage

22:07:00 from only the single-family homes.
22:07:02 And about halfway down, one goes to the west and
22:07:05 halfway down the park goes to the east, and then it
22:07:08 ties into the outfall system.
22:07:11 So what you have here is described as a remnant
22:07:15 right-of-way.
22:07:16 The city received ownership of this back in 1928 when
22:07:19 the county gave all the property in the City of Tampa,
22:07:27 turned it oaf to the city and it has been sitting in a
22:07:29 vacant state ever since.
22:07:31 Also within this right-of-way, it's been abutting what
22:07:34 everybody has as the Wenzel tile factory, recognized
22:07:41 having contamination on the site, a contamination plan
22:07:45 and report.
22:07:48 Also in the presentation indicate that because of its
22:07:51 uses railroad spur in the past, there's significant
22:07:54 arsenic contamination within the rights-of-way the
22:07:57 city currently owns.
22:07:58 We have a plan to fix all that.
22:08:01 And with that I'll go and do the presentation
22:08:04 regarding the project itself.
22:08:09 The package that you have --

22:08:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Contamination as we own it?
22:08:15 >>> Well, it's -- what the city would have to do, they
22:08:23 would have to remediate it to dig up the land to put
22:08:25 the trail in.
22:08:26 So it's significant because somebody is going to have
22:08:28 to clean it up eventually.
22:08:31 As we go through this, the package I provided you,
22:08:33 this is a general overview and concept for the
22:08:39 elevation of the property and the context of its area.
22:08:41 Single-family homes to our north, this is Casa Bella,
22:08:47 McCoy, the railroad track.
22:08:50 Four distinct multifamily buildings.
22:08:53 One access off of Westshore, one access off of
22:08:56 McCoy, the access off of McCoy is shared with the
22:09:00 outparcel on the corner.
22:09:02 I might point out that we had significant
22:09:04 conversations with the civic associations, multiple
22:09:08 occasions, we met with the board, we met in joint
22:09:11 session with the sun bay south and Port Tampa.
22:09:14 This project on the boundary of sun bay south is in
22:09:19 Port Tampa.
22:09:20 So the principal -- what you will be hearing from the

22:09:24 civic association, primarily the comments are coming
22:09:25 from Port Tampa.
22:09:26 We have worked with them and we heard their concerns,
22:09:28 and their concerns were, you know, pretty pointed.
22:09:32 And that was, multifamily down here, we don't have any
22:09:37 retail and why don't you bring us some retail?
22:09:41 We have worked with them, and I won't say we convinced
22:09:43 them but we made them aware that our plan was tried on
22:09:48 many, many occasions, the property owner, to try to
22:09:51 get a grocery store down there, other retail.
22:09:53 Retail will not come down here due to the fact that
22:09:56 it's really the end of Westshore, and they don't have
22:09:58 a lot of traffic coming by it.
22:10:00 So we reached what we would consider as a compromise.
22:10:03 Even though there isn't a retail market we recognize
22:10:05 the community is really concerned about getting
22:10:07 someplace for the community to go.
22:10:10 What we have presented -- and I'll just skip through
22:10:13 the zoning and the land use issues -- what we
22:10:15 presented to go on this property is a picture of the
22:10:18 existing site, not something that is very attractive.
22:10:22 We propose to demolish this facility and remediate

22:10:26 here which is already underway on the property.
22:10:31 But going to the site plan, what we did is we
22:10:37 discussed with the community what their concerns were,
22:10:39 and we said, you know, what we can do is first we
22:10:42 started out with a retail/restaurant outparcel.
22:10:45 Retail restaurant outparcel located at McCoy and
22:10:49 Westshore was one that the -- it took some convincing
22:10:53 of the property owner to convince him that this was a
22:10:56 good thing to do, because actually it was for this
22:10:59 number of units, the overall acreage.
22:11:04 In further negotiations with the civic association, in
22:11:08 the notes we provided you, this use has now been
22:11:12 restricted to sit-down restaurant only.
22:11:15 In a adult use, no drive-through, and basically it's
22:11:18 going to be a sit-down restaurant, or it's not going
22:11:22 to be anything.
22:11:22 It's just going to wait until we get a sit-down
22:11:25 restaurant there.
22:11:25 Mr. McCoughlin, property owner has all the incentive
22:11:28 in the world to get a sit-down restaurant there
22:11:30 because otherwise the property taxes and the refuse
22:11:33 newspaper just won't be there to support it.

22:11:36 Overall, what we are looking at, why do we have
22:11:39 multifamily?
22:11:40 Because we have environmental contamination on the
22:11:42 site, and we also have the adjacent contamination.
22:11:45 Right-of-way.
22:11:46 Looking at the overall cost, we needed multifamily
22:11:49 density in order to support the cost of remediation of
22:11:52 the site, and taking the industrial use out of this
22:11:55 area.
22:11:57 What we tried to do in this development plan is also
22:12:00 account for the sensitivity to our neighbors around
22:12:05 us.
22:12:06 And principally what we have, to do that, is provided
22:12:10 for significant setbacks in our plan.
22:12:15 From the northern property boundary to the rear, the
22:12:18 closest house, it's 195-foot of setback.
22:12:22 In between that, what we are proposing to do in
22:12:26 including our site plan, and we have to give an
22:12:28 affidavit from the city in order to include in the
22:12:31 zoning, since you -- the right-of-way, we proposed and
22:12:38 included in our plan the greenways trail.
22:12:40 Basically, we are looking at a 30-foot wide greenway

22:12:44 trail and green path, working out the details with
22:12:47 Parks and Recreation Department on timing,
22:12:50 construction, and those things, development agreement,
22:12:53 from second reading, associated with that.
22:12:56 Also, you will have plantings, landscaping, that will
22:13:02 provide for an additional buffer between the
22:13:05 multifamily use, and the property to our north.
22:13:11 The other thing we did on the site plan was a concern
22:13:14 that we keep an urban scale relative to the street.
22:13:17 Initially, we had the buildings further back.
22:13:19 And we had more parking in front.
22:13:21 So we brought the buildings along Westshore closer to
22:13:25 the street.
22:13:26 And when I say close, there's still 77 feet back from
22:13:29 the right-of-way but provides for a more urban form as
22:13:32 you come down the street.
22:13:33 Keeping in mind right across the street about 120 feet
22:13:38 back principally because they have a trail in front of
22:13:40 them.
22:13:41 They would be closer to the street otherwise.
22:13:43 The elevations that are in your book -- and I will
22:13:51 only use a few of these but each one of the buildings

22:13:53 is shaped in a U.
22:13:55 The architectural features that embodied at the ground
22:13:59 floor will have on the outside perimeter, we will have
22:14:02 garage parking for the units.
22:14:05 Unless the parking will be field parking scattered
22:14:08 throughout the site.
22:14:11 The site itself -- we'll go back to the site plan.
22:14:15 Provides for a central Boulevard, you come straight
22:14:19 in, the circle, office and amenity building, and there
22:14:23 are no gates or anything associated with this.
22:14:25 The gates start coming when you get into the
22:14:27 community, off to the sides.
22:14:29 So there's no need for any turn lanes because you can
22:14:32 free flow right into the site and all the circulation
22:14:35 is basically in between the buildings and around.
22:14:46 I'm skipping around.
22:14:48 But the elevation we have also provided for the retail
22:14:52 space, basically gives the restaurant space a fixture
22:14:59 option which could be very attractive on the corner
22:15:00 especially as a restaurant and a place for people to
22:15:03 come that actually live in the community.
22:15:08 This again is the context plan.

22:15:11 Single-family.
22:15:12 Greenway trail.
22:15:13 And what we have done to address the concern of
22:15:19 transportation staff relative to the ingress and
22:15:20 egress, and picking up the drainage, we propose
22:15:24 basically to provide for right of use agreement, to
22:15:28 the best of adjacent property owners to the north, to
22:15:31 maintain a 28-foot wide ingress, egress and drainage
22:15:36 strip, and we are also going to pipe the ditch.
22:15:42 Currently the ditch meanders on the west side of the
22:15:45 right-of-way, it's on the north side.
22:15:47 On the east side of the right-of-way, it's on the
22:15:49 other side so it sort of meanders to the site.
22:15:52 We need to relocate in order to put the trail in.
22:15:55 And when we do that we are going to have a 6 to 1
22:15:58 slope, so you will have a 10-foot access, you will be
22:16:01 able to go through the swale and go into the back
22:16:05 yards, no different than today to maintain that use
22:16:10 that they have in the rear yards.
22:16:15 This is the main Boulevard.
22:16:17 Just to give you a sense of how the Boulevard comes in
22:16:21 to the property.

22:16:23 I think one of the most important graphics here is the
22:16:31 trail relationship, again, this is where the ingress,
22:16:36 egress and drainage right of use would be.
22:16:39 Here's the 30-foot trail with a 12-foot path.
22:16:42 And then the transitions into a buffer area and then
22:16:45 to the parking lot.
22:16:47 The graphic that you also have is an aerial view, show
22:16:51 you the trail is going to meander through the site.
22:16:58 The arsenic question, not to dwell on it too long, but
22:17:03 basically the right-of-way line runs through -- this
22:17:06 is an encroachment that was permitted for the Wenzel
22:17:09 pouch factory but the property line runs through here,
22:17:12 and then here's the northern boundary.
22:17:16 As you can see all the red areas are where there is
22:17:18 documented asphalt.
22:17:20 Excuse me, arsenic contamination.
22:17:23 And it's 4,000 pounds of soil that needs to be
22:17:27 remediated out of this area.
22:17:30 So we believe the developer has proposed -- I'll give
22:17:34 you a shot of the greenway trail -- let's say the
22:17:40 developer proposed for this property is to bring in a
22:17:42 more compatible use, residential property.

22:17:48 We have provided for opportunity for restaurant to
22:17:50 serve the community.
22:17:52 We provided for the trail to be built much sooner than
22:17:55 it could possibly ever be built by the city with
22:18:00 current funding situations.
22:18:02 We have accommodated ingress and egress and drainage
22:18:06 concerns of adjacent property.
22:18:07 Some of them may not agree with that.
22:18:09 But that is what the intent is for the site.
22:18:13 We think this is a wonderful opportunity for the city
22:18:17 to have this plan that's been pretty much an eyesore
22:18:21 for so long to redevelop the site into a useful
22:18:24 product, and also provide benefit of getting the trail
22:18:29 sooner.
22:18:30 There was no use for the right-of-way today.
22:18:32 Only for private use for the trail -- excuse me, the
22:18:35 drainage and the ingress and egress at the rear yards.
22:18:40 You can say more but I'll save it for rebuttal and
22:18:43 I'll be glad to answer any questions.
22:18:45 That you may have.
22:18:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Smith.
22:18:50 A couple of questions.

22:18:51 One, how does the trail propose to cross the CSX
22:19:00 right-of-way?
22:19:01 >>> That is part of the trail master plan.
22:19:04 There is no provision for it today.
22:19:08 We are not aware of how the trail master plan is
22:19:10 negotiating those crossings.
22:19:13 And that will be something that will be negotiated
22:19:16 with CSX.
22:19:18 And obviously we are only dealing with the
22:19:22 right-of-way in the city ownership.
22:19:25 I don't know what their plans are.
22:19:26 We have been meeting with Tom Johnson relative to the
22:19:29 trail.
22:19:29 And the only thing they focused on is the connection
22:19:32 across Westshore to tie into the trailway in front of
22:19:38 Casa Bella.
22:19:40 >> Okay.
22:19:41 If you could put up -- I don't know what the best way
22:19:45 to see it is -- the best shore -- Westshore exposure,
22:19:51 the elevation --
22:19:58 Is that building C?
22:20:04 >>> Maybe this will give --

22:20:19 >> I'm looking for the street level elevation.
22:20:21 >>> Oh, street level elevation?
22:20:23 >> From Westshore.
22:20:25 My concern -- and while you are getting them, my
22:20:28 concern is -- and it's funny because I think we had
22:20:32 the same discussion about a different project -- is
22:20:36 from Westshore we are looking at a line of garages.
22:20:42 Oh, I got you.
22:20:44 I mean, overall they look like pretty attractive
22:20:47 buildings, and maybe they are more attractive from the
22:20:50 other side, from the court yard side.
22:20:52 But on this side, the Westshore exposure is a string
22:20:59 of garages.
22:21:04 It's unfortunate the design is that way.
22:21:06 You have some of the best architects in town, and the
22:21:13 only place the city is going to see this project is
22:21:15 from Westshore.
22:21:18 While the city gets to look at you all's garages.
22:21:22 So --
22:21:25 >>> Hard question to answer.
22:21:27 I guess I would say is that -- they can do this.

22:21:33 Two things while he's coming up.
22:21:34 It's not that you are going to see these.
22:21:36 We have 77-foot of setback.
22:21:38 So your choices are, you get to see multiple rows of
22:21:43 cars parked in front of the units, or you get to have
22:21:46 a mix where you have units that have garage,
22:21:50 opportunities to break up the front of the building,
22:21:52 and what we have done is obviously we haven't put in
22:21:55 the screening along Westshore that's going to break up
22:21:58 the front of the building.
22:21:59 There's going to be canopy trees, there's going to be
22:22:03 a small fence to buffer that area from people looking
22:22:06 just straight at the front of the garage.
22:22:09 But as far as the design perspective --
22:22:12 >> I'm seeing a lot of trees, but I am not seeing
22:22:16 hedges arched that sort of thing.
22:22:17 If you are telling me that the end design is going to
22:22:19 have hedges, and screening and that sort of thing so
22:22:22 we are not going to see that first floor I'm actually
22:22:24 a little more comfortable.
22:22:25 >>> I wouldn't say you are not going to see the first
22:22:28 floor but I would say it's going to break up the front

22:22:30 of the building because obviously what we try to do is
22:22:33 try to let you see the front of the building so you
22:22:35 can see what the building looks like so we don't try
22:22:37 to cover it up with a bunch of landscaping so you
22:22:39 can't tell what it going to look like.
22:22:41 So it's sort of a Yin and Yang on how to present that.
22:22:47 But I'll let the architect tell you why.
22:22:49 >>> Brian Hammond, 665 North Franklin Street.
22:22:57 Thank you.
22:22:59 In earlier versions of these buildings, the legs on
22:23:05 the buildings were actually a little longer.
22:23:07 So we were cognizant of that issue.
22:23:11 And so we tried to shorten that.
22:23:15 And make that impact as little as possible and as
22:23:25 David stated earlier what we did from an earlier
22:23:28 version was eliminate a lot of the parking we had
22:23:33 along Westshore and moved that interior to the
22:23:36 building.
22:23:38 Up close, and also we increased the green space that
22:23:41 we had from Westshore to the drive.
22:23:46 What we were also making sure that we did was along
22:23:53 this internal street, which is accessible, by the

22:23:57 public, is that on the drive-in, there are no
22:24:01 driveways that enter -- I'm sorry, no garages that are
22:24:05 along the place either here or there.
22:24:08 So corners here and here, you are not seeing garage
22:24:13 doors.
22:24:14 We have units that are coming all the way down to the
22:24:17 ground on the corners.
22:24:18 >> But nobody is going to go in there except for the
22:24:20 residents.
22:24:21 I mean I'm not going in there.
22:24:23 Nobody would have a reason to go in there except for
22:24:24 the pizza delivery guy, and the residents.
22:24:27 I mean --
22:24:29 >>> What you don't see on this is the landscaping
22:24:31 that's going to go along the buffer, along Westshore,
22:24:34 to break up the bottom level facade, so you don't see,
22:24:38 you know, just a row of garages which you have seen on
22:24:41 some of the projects in town.
22:24:44 And again, the idea was to bring it forward.
22:24:48 And when you bring it forward, the garage parking is
22:24:51 an amenity that's in demand and we also reduce the
22:24:54 number of spaces.

22:24:55 So our choices are a lot of landscaping with two or
22:24:58 three rows of parking, or we have --
22:25:02 >> I think the fact that it's 70 feet back is probably
22:25:04 the saving grace on that.
22:25:07 I think we need to avoid showing our backside to the
22:25:11 neighborhood.
22:25:14 >>> Mary Daniels Bryson, land development
22:25:18 coordination, I have been sworn.
22:25:18 They are required per chapter 13 to provide an 8 foot
22:25:20 buffer with 2-foot high hedges in that area.
22:25:23 They are complying with that requirement.
22:25:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
22:25:27 And while you are up, talk to us about the crossing of
22:25:29 the railroad tracks there.
22:25:32 What's the point of having a continuous trail if you
22:25:35 have a railroad track blocking it?
22:25:37 >>> I have not been involved with the greenway and
22:25:40 trail process, so I don't have that information
22:25:43 available to me.
22:25:44 >> Maybe you can talk to Tom between now and as we
22:25:49 move forward on this and come back to us.
22:25:52 Because part of my concern is, I appreciate the fact

22:25:56 that part of this plan builds a trail but I think part
22:26:00 of this plan should cross the railroad as part of that
22:26:02 as well.
22:26:03 Or if the city is actually getting money out of this
22:26:06 from the land sale, and that land sale needs to be
22:26:09 used toward the trail crossing.
22:26:11 So we need to figure that out.
22:26:15 And my last question is for legal.
22:26:18 In regard to the landfill agreement, somebody alluded
22:26:22 to the fact that's going to be held off until, what,
22:26:24 second reading?
22:26:25 And why wouldn't we see that on first reading?
22:26:28 >> Julia Cole, legal department.
22:26:30 In terms of moving forward with a separate land sales
22:26:32 agreement, that is something we are still in the
22:26:34 process of discussing, and is appropriately heard not
22:26:38 as part of the vacation or as part of this
22:26:40 development, because -- the requirement relating to
22:26:44 the trail is not a requirement as a result of the
22:26:47 rezoning, or the vacation.
22:26:49 It's a requirement as far as quid pro quo of the land
22:26:53 sales.

22:26:53 And it's kind of a little bit of convoluted part, but
22:26:57 that's part of that negotiation, and relating to that,
22:27:03 but in front of you today is the rezoning standing on
22:27:07 the zone and the vacation petition whether or not
22:27:09 it's -- it's going to be -- once they have that all
22:27:15 together at first reading we can certainly deal with
22:27:17 it that way.
22:27:18 However, I would caution against approving a land
22:27:20 sales agreement, once it has some contingencies on it
22:27:23 because you technically can't sell it or divest it in
22:27:26 any way until we have dealt we've the vacation.
22:27:30 >> But their PD includes city land.
22:27:32 >>> Yes.
22:27:34 >> And that's my concern, is approving a PD that
22:27:39 includes city land without knowing what the terms of
22:27:41 the sale agreement is.
22:27:44 >>> In terms of them moving forward procedurally, and
22:27:48 this happens oftentimes, you have a situation where
22:27:51 you are moving forward, part of what is city-owned
22:27:57 property.
22:27:57 You can get -- to move forward as far as affidavit
22:28:04 process which allows to you move forward, no

22:28:07 guarantees as to whether or not you are going to get
22:28:09 what you get.
22:28:10 But in terms of procedurally, they are fine is
22:28:12 something you want to see the entire part and parcel
22:28:14 together, that's really within your purview to
22:28:17 require.
22:28:19 They are separate and discreet items.
22:28:21 But if you want to hear them together, that's within
22:28:24 your purview.
22:28:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern.
22:28:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Mr. Smith, do you think could you put
22:28:32 that last sheet up that shows the development?
22:28:39 That one.
22:28:40 Yes.
22:28:40 Is this the whole development?
22:28:43 >>> Yes.
22:28:43 This would show the entire development inclusive of,
22:28:47 and I'll just point out where the right-of-way is.
22:28:49 The right-of-way line currently runs right through
22:28:52 here.
22:28:52 So the only part of the right-of-way that's actually
22:28:56 included in the development part of our property is

22:28:58 about 12 feet where we have seven foot of -- for
22:29:04 landscape buffer, and then we have a five foot where
22:29:08 the parking lot comes in.
22:29:10 The rest of it is being utilized for the trail or for
22:29:12 the ingress-egress.
22:29:15 >> That's what I am trying to understand.
22:29:17 You are asking us ton vacate where that trail is going
22:29:21 to be?
22:29:22 >>> Basically right here.
22:29:23 >> Okay.
22:29:24 And are you also requesting to continue that across
22:29:28 the railroad track?
22:29:30 >>> No, ma'am.
22:29:36 The request that we have made is in looking at the
22:29:38 property, the adjacent land was right-of-way.
22:29:43 In talking to the staff, comments were made early on
22:29:46 that this is on the Greenway Trails plan, gee,
22:29:51 wouldn't it be great to have the greenways trail
22:29:53 advanced?
22:29:54 They said, well, that's something we can incorporate
22:29:56 and look at incorporating into our plan.
22:29:58 And started moving forward along those lines.

22:30:02 How it gets across CSX, I mean, the similar question
22:30:05 could be asked what happened on Casa Bella.
22:30:07 Casa Bella has a trail across the street which moved
22:30:12 Everett and extended the trail basically down the
22:30:15 frontage of the property, and to the west, and then
22:30:18 terminates.
22:30:19 This.
22:30:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This council did that about four
22:30:22 years ago.
22:30:23 >>> Right.
22:30:23 So we have a trail on one side of the street that
22:30:25 basically goes around one property.
22:30:27 The next link is back to the west, the city just
22:30:31 acquired interest in property on the other side of the
22:30:34 CSX to continue the trail, which they didn't have that
22:30:39 property under their control before, and I think it
22:30:43 would be unfair to us, this developer, to go to CSX
22:30:48 and try to negotiate a trail crossing --
22:30:53 >> Right.
22:30:54 I'm not asking for that.
22:30:55 That wasn't my question.
22:30:56 What I'm trying to understand is an objection from the

22:31:00 neighborhood association.
22:31:01 And I don't understand their talking about they don't
22:31:06 want us to vacate the entire -- the entire row, as you
22:31:15 are only using half of it.
22:31:16 >>> Yes.
22:31:17 Basically, I would like to put that in rebuttal since
22:31:22 I haven't had a chance to talk to everybody what their
22:31:25 objection S.i know exactly what you are saying but I
22:31:27 don't want ton preempt what they are doing.
22:31:30 We were looking to vacate the whole thing because it's
22:31:33 hard to stop the environmental remediation halfway and
22:31:37 leave the arsenic contamination going all the way over
22:31:40 to the other side of the back of the property line.
22:31:44 And also the ditch meanders so we have to relocate the
22:31:48 ditch into that area so the activity area associated
22:31:50 with putting the trail in would involve the entire
22:31:52 right-of-way.
22:31:54 And that's why we are asking --
22:31:56 >> Okay.
22:31:56 If they are here then we can hear that.
22:31:59 If not I am going to have -- then my question for
22:32:03 Julia is --

22:32:09 >> She's gone.
22:32:10 >> Mr. Dingfelder, I think we should look at the
22:32:13 vacation and the land sales agreement at the same
22:32:17 time.
22:32:18 I don't understand how we can, you know.
22:32:22 It seems like the agreement to vacate, we are giving
22:32:27 up our right.
22:32:28 It's our land.
22:32:29 Then we are going to --
22:32:32 >>> Could I clarify something?
22:32:34 I'm sorry, as she's coming in.
22:32:36 The right-of-way is basically a designation kind of an
22:32:40 overlay.
22:32:41 By removing the right-of-way designation, you can only
22:32:44 do a couple things.
22:32:45 One, you basically say it's no longer needed for
22:32:49 right-of-way.
22:32:50 All the utilities and anything that's TECO or anybody
22:32:54 else, rights are basically extinguished.
22:32:59 The reason we look at it in pieces is to -- and to
22:33:04 look at the vacation separately and part because the

22:33:07 right-of-way is no longer needed or is not needed for
22:33:11 right-of-way purposes.
22:33:13 Not that it not needed for trail purposes or something
22:33:15 else.
22:33:16 And they felt comfortable with doing this two-step
22:33:20 process on it because the right-of-way designation
22:33:22 doesn't give us control of the property.
22:33:24 It just moves it to the next step where we can say
22:33:27 it's not right-of-way, but we still own it in fee.
22:33:30 And you can't just go in there and develop it without
22:33:32 the land sale agreement coming on, which will work out
22:33:36 the details.
22:33:36 We are looking at for remediation, that $400,000, and
22:33:42 trail construction cost of about $500,000, and about
22:33:45 $100,000 for storm piping.
22:33:47 So it's about a million dollar improvement that we are
22:33:51 will go at, which again is going to be in the land
22:33:54 sale agreement, and it shouldn't be really the basis
22:33:57 for whether the vacation should occur because I think
22:34:00 when you look at the facts, it will never be a road,
22:34:03 because there's no place for to the go.
22:34:05 There is no water and sewer facility in it today.

22:34:09 The only drainage facility is in the backyard and
22:34:13 there are the only purpose of designating it for is
22:34:17 the trail.
22:34:18 And I won't answer for Julia, because she is your
22:34:21 attorney.
22:34:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a point of order that really
22:34:27 is paramount.
22:34:28 You are going to appreciate it.
22:34:31 Attached to this petitioner some e-mails that floated
22:34:34 around two days ago.
22:34:36 Okay?
22:34:42 Fee free to sit down.
22:34:44 Two days ago, I see e-mails here from the developer
22:34:47 saying they in effect -- I am not going to read them
22:34:51 all but basically, hey, city, by the way, we need to
22:34:55 negotiate a landfill agreement associated with all of
22:34:57 this.
22:34:58 Okay.
22:34:59 >> How many days ago?
22:35:00 >>> Two days ago.
22:35:01 >> I don't think so.
22:35:03 >> Says February 12, 2008, 10:24, from Mr. Hudak to

22:35:10 our staff.
22:35:11 >> That development agreement has been in the hands of
22:35:13 your staff for a month.
22:35:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I can read the whole thing, David,
22:35:18 but it looks like -- and I have asked just now to see
22:35:21 the development agreement.
22:35:22 And I have been told there is not one yet.
22:35:24 >> I'm sorry, Mr. Dingfelder.
22:35:28 >>> I know but it my point of order so let me finish.
22:35:32 >>> I understand, yes, sir.
22:35:33 >> The bottom line there isn't one, all right?
22:35:35 I don't think you can disagree with that.
22:35:37 And if there is one, hand me one.
22:35:41 >>> I can hand you one but would tell you not to
22:35:45 consider it because he wants to format it in a
22:35:47 different way.
22:35:47 >> Okay.
22:35:48 So it not available to us yet.
22:35:50 Since it's not I think this is totally premature.
22:35:53 You have got neighbors here who, you know, who
22:35:55 basically, they have got letters in the file objecting
22:35:58 to this, because they want to continued right of

22:36:03 access.
22:36:03 >>> Which they are going to get snoop which they are
22:36:06 going to get pursuant to the development agreement
22:36:07 which is not available for anybody to see tonight.
22:36:09 So this is a big problem.
22:36:11 We have got a procedural problem.
22:36:14 And we really shouldn't even open this hearing
22:36:16 tonight.
22:36:16 We should have just been told that it's not ripe and
22:36:19 we shouldn't have wasted everybody's time and they
22:36:22 shouldn't have had to sit here for the last three
22:36:24 hours.
22:36:24 I'm a little frustrated by it.
22:36:26 And I don't think we should be moving forward at all
22:36:28 until everybody has that development agreement in
22:36:30 their hands to look at, and especially the neighbors.
22:36:33 Because they need to know what their future rights
22:36:36 are.
22:36:36 And those rights are going to be spelled out in the
22:36:38 development agreement.
22:36:38 >> Mr. Dingfelder, Ron Weaver, 401 East Jackson
22:36:42 Street.

22:36:43 And we appreciate that thought.
22:36:44 And while it has been in the works for months, rather
22:36:47 than he said, she said, not here tonight, this is not
22:36:51 fair to them so, we would agree to a short
22:36:54 continuance, understanding that every day of the month
22:37:01 spent working on it but we'll show that to you clear
22:37:04 as day for the people who are not here tonight to
22:37:06 speak for themselves.
22:37:09 We have all been working hard on that development
22:37:11 agreement.
22:37:11 So we'll agree to that, if we can have a short
22:37:15 continuance, then the first reading, and then see
22:37:17 everything last month, including working with our
22:37:20 neighbors, some of whom are here tonight, if you
22:37:24 choose, because sit here for five hours for
22:37:30 recommendation of approval from our Port Tampa
22:37:32 association.
22:37:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And that's fine -- Madam Chair can
22:37:36 work with those people and see if they want to speak
22:37:39 tonight or wait until the continuance.
22:37:41 That's all fine and good.
22:37:43 But I think the bottom line is between now and then, I

22:37:46 think you also need to make sure that you have got
22:37:49 those neighbors on that adjacent street.
22:37:54 What is that circle there?
22:37:57 But you meet with them and let them realize what that
22:38:01 agreement -- that agreement is going to continue to
22:38:04 give them the access you are asserting that it will.
22:38:08 >>> How about March 27?
22:38:10 That gives us a month to work out all the details.
22:38:12 Five weeks.
22:38:13 Would March 27 work for you, Jill?
22:38:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You just need to make sure anyone
22:38:25 wants to speak.
22:38:26 And I apologize, Mary, but you know where I'm coming
22:38:29 from?
22:38:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, I do.
22:38:31 We have all been sitting here the second long hearing
22:38:34 we have had, and I really wish that staff could try to
22:38:44 preempt that from happening, and that petitioners
22:38:48 would cooperate, because obviously this council, can't
22:38:55 go further if we don't have the information we need,
22:38:57 and so I think with respect for the residents of the
22:39:07 city, and this council, we need to have the

22:39:12 information that we need when we are looking so we
22:39:16 don't have these -- every zoning we have is groundhog
22:39:22 day because we have been here before.
22:39:25 Two public hearings, and two readings is a lot.
22:39:29 I wish it didn't have to turn into three every time.
22:39:34 >>CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone in the public going to
22:39:35 speak on that 12 or 13?
22:39:37 If you speak tonight you won't be able to speak when
22:39:39 you come back on the 27th of March.
22:39:43 Not rebuttal.
22:39:44 From the community.
22:39:45 Anybody in the neighborhood wants to speak.
22:39:48 >>> I have 31 names on a petition all want to say
22:39:52 something.
22:39:52 >> You won't be able to speak when you come back on
22:39:54 the 27th.
22:39:59 You can't speak for 31 people.
22:40:01 You can speak three minutes.
22:40:04 >>> My name is Joseph Booker and I live at 6560 South
22:40:08 Westshore circle and I'm the immediate property owner
22:40:13 to the north of the proposed vacated right-of-way.
22:40:17 I sent you folks an e-mail today.

22:40:20 I hope you all got copies of it.
22:40:22 And I appreciate the opportunity to speak on behalf of
22:40:25 these folks.
22:40:25 I would like to enter into the record the petition,
22:40:29 copy thereof.
22:40:32 I don't think I have to come back.
22:40:51 It pretty obvious from the e-mail and you folks have
22:40:54 read it but I'll hit some of the highlights.
22:40:59 We had a meeting after we had been ignored by city
22:41:04 parks, and I'm not slamming anybody on the parks right
22:41:06 now.
22:41:07 Happens to be that you had a change of staff, and
22:41:11 whether that person did not forward the information to
22:41:14 the successor or not, I don't know but I asked to be
22:41:17 kept informed about this from September.
22:41:19 And I was not.
22:41:21 Informed.
22:41:22 I didn't hear anything more until I finally got a
22:41:24 letter from the attorneys for Zaremba.
22:41:30 And I went ahead and approached them.
22:41:34 Well, a week went by, and I had left my e-mail address
22:41:38 and so forth and I heard nothing.

22:41:40 I finally got a call from Mr. Cusek and he told me it
22:41:47 wasn't in response to my request, it was to do with a
22:41:50 general call of all the neighbors.
22:41:53 Well, I am going to beat that to death.
22:41:56 But the point is there hadn't been any communication
22:41:58 between these folks, and immediate north neighbors.
22:42:05 I have heard nothing from these folks.
22:42:06 You see our concerns in that.
22:42:09 There are a couple of things that were misstated, I
22:42:12 believe.
22:42:12 The ditches -- the ditches do not drain out properly.
22:42:18 Our property takes the run-off from the right-of-way,
22:42:22 which is elevated over above our land because the
22:42:27 ditch was dug in the first place.
22:42:28 So we don't get any best at all.
22:42:30 The other thing is we have only to be thankful that a
22:42:41 company like Zaremba wants to build something as nice
22:42:44 as this because we had to look at that eyesore for a
22:42:47 long time and I have been there for 24 years and I do
22:42:50 not need to -- don't need to look at that any anymore.
22:42:53 Enough of that.
22:42:54 But, on the other hand, we don't need to give away the

22:42:56 farm either.
22:42:59 My memo said to you folks, if they need half of the
22:43:02 property to deal with the trail that goes to know
22:43:05 where, as you mentioned, if they need half of that
22:43:10 property to do that, then give it to them if that's
22:43:12 the deal and you can get the clean-up done and the
22:43:15 ditch covered up.
22:43:17 But for goodness sake don't put the utilities on our
22:43:20 side and then put us at the mercy of a private owner
22:43:24 to keep the thing maintained.
22:43:27 We need -- we need the city to own that property,
22:43:30 because in spite of what you might have been led to
22:43:33 believe, there is a gas line that runs down that
22:43:35 right-of-way.
22:43:37 (Bell sounds).
22:43:39 Shall I stop?
22:43:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Finish your statement.
22:43:41 >>> There's a gas line there.
22:43:43 And electric, TECO, and I talked with law enforcement
22:43:51 about this.
22:43:52 They need that right-of-way.
22:43:53 They need the right-of-way for fire, for the police

22:43:59 department, for emergency vehicles, for the gas line
22:44:03 company, and for TECO.
22:44:04 And I don't think the city ought to get rid of that
22:44:07 and put that in the hands of the private enterprise.
22:44:10 >>CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
22:44:11 Does anyone else want to speak?
22:44:13 Anyone else wanted to speak?
22:44:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Booker, let me say one thing in
22:44:19 response to that.
22:44:20 I'm fairly confident that Mr. Weaver, along with city
22:44:23 staff, will make sure that if we sell that
22:44:27 right-of-way, you know, pursuant to whatever terms
22:44:30 that come back, that the city will retain very strong
22:44:34 easement through there for all the purposes that you
22:44:36 mentioned.
22:44:37 It's not like we would walk away because we can't.
22:44:41 I mean, when we have all those utilities there we have
22:44:43 to retain easement for all those purposes.
22:44:46 And we'll see that on March 27th.
22:44:48 And I'm sure, I'm very confident Mr. Weaver is going
22:44:51 to get your phone number and you all are going to meet
22:44:53 him between now and then.

22:44:58 >>> One thing I want to mention is we don't have any
22:45:01 way of getting this enforced because if it belongs to
22:45:08 somebody else, not city, that's my concern there.
22:45:12 >> We'll try our best to protect that.
22:45:15 >>> We will be meeting March 27 and happy Valentine's
22:45:21 Day.
22:45:22 Sorry to keep you waiting.
22:45:24 >>GWEN MILLER: We need a motion to continue to March
22:45:30 27th.
22:45:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have one other thing when we come
22:45:38 back, and that is the sense of what the impact to the
22:45:45 neighbors to the north, what the neighbors to the
22:45:47 north will have.
22:45:53 >>> I definitely will.
22:45:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Need a motion for continuance.
22:45:56 >>: So moved.
22:45:56 >> Second.
22:45:57 (Motion carried)
22:45:57 >> We are going to northbound recess for five minutes.
22:46:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you say 6 p.m. for that?
22:46:03 >>GWEN MILLER: 6 p.m.
22:46:04 Recess for five minutes.

22:46:06 We'll be in recess for five minutes.
22:46:08 (City Council recess)
22:46:12 >> Petitioner is proposing to redevelopment the
22:56:12 property.
22:56:14 The site is surrounded by a mix of commercial uses to
22:56:19 the east, southwest, and single-family residential
22:56:21 uses to the north of the site.
22:56:24 The setbacks are as follows.
22:56:26 From the north, 60 feet.
22:56:28 From the east, 72 feet.
22:56:30 From the south, 64 feet.
22:56:32 And from the west, 50 feet.
22:56:37 The drive-in portion of the development will be 90
22:56:39 feet from the closest residential property.
22:56:42 The maximum height is proposed at 28 feet.
22:56:43 The required number of parking spaces is 19 and 28
22:56:46 feet being provided.
22:56:56 Here is a zoning map of the local area.
22:57:02 You have Hillsborough, predominantly CI at the
22:57:12 corridor.
22:57:12 Here is an aerial of the site.
22:57:20 The local road located to the north, and 40th Street

22:57:23 located to the west and Hillsborough to the south.
22:57:30 This is a picture of the structure on-site.
22:57:37 On the opposite side.
22:57:40 This is the current drive-through configuration.
22:57:48 This is located directly to the west of the site.
22:57:55 This is the Hillsborough/40th Street intersection.
22:58:01 We are looking south of the site.
22:58:02 Across Hillsborough.
22:58:08 This is looking north on the site.
22:58:10 Here you can see where the residential uses are
22:58:12 occurring.
22:58:14 According to the proposed site plan, this whole area
22:58:18 is going to be closed off and buffered with the new
22:58:23 ingress-egress point around this area right here.
22:58:31 And again the ingress-egress point would be coming
22:58:33 from here, as well as Hillsborough.
22:58:35 But the local street Mohawk would be from this point
22:58:40 and you can see the distance from 40th Street.
22:58:46 These are located east of the site.
22:58:56 And this is located south of the site over to the
22:58:58 east.
22:59:02 The site historically had issues with personal --

22:59:12 public safety.
22:59:13 The Tampa Police Department has removed all objections
22:59:15 based on the site plan configuration, which from the
22:59:19 previous photos you can see that there was a large
22:59:21 open space in the area where a lot of vehicular
22:59:25 loitering occurring and now the configuration, access
22:59:33 in the back will not permit this to occur any further.
22:59:37 City staff has found the request to be inconsistent.
22:59:40 However, with a few minimal changes, we would be
22:59:43 willing to amend our report to be consistent, if they
22:59:48 added a note to the site plan, stating the minimum
22:59:53 radius to remain at 10 feet.
22:59:56 And for them to shift the sidewalk located at proposed
23:00:02 Mohawk to directly abut the property line, and
23:00:05 indicate the hours of operation.
23:00:16 That concludes my presentation.
23:00:17 I'm available for questions.
23:00:21 Also, I was presented in my office with a booklet from
23:00:28 the neighborhood association with over 80 letters of
23:00:32 support for this project and I would like to submit
23:00:34 that into the record at this time.
23:00:44 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission.

23:00:45 I have been sworn.
23:00:47 Several additional comments to add to Ms. Kirsie's
23:00:52 comments.
23:00:53 This is located in the East Tampa area located on the
23:00:55 northeast corner of the intersection of east
23:00:57 Hillsborough Avenue and 40th Street, classification of
23:01:03 main arterial roads.
23:01:04 We noted 40th Street will be undergoing a major
23:01:07 renovation and have a plan of coming hopefully in the
23:01:09 next couple of years for a new corridor redevelopment
23:01:12 plan.
23:01:14 As we all know, Hillsborough Avenue is a major
23:01:17 commercial thoroughfare that extends throughout the
23:01:19 entire length of Hillsborough County.
23:01:22 Appraise dominant land use category along Hillsborough
23:01:25 Avenue is commercial 24 which allows general
23:01:29 commercial, commercial intensive and neighborhood
23:01:30 uses.
23:01:31 You have quite a few commercial expensive uses
23:01:34 reflected by the aerial.
23:01:35 We'll show you the aerial in a second but just want to
23:01:38 show you a couple of the other land use categories

23:01:40 that abut this particular part of Hillsborough Avenue.
23:01:44 We have residential 20 here, and we have community
23:01:46 mixed use 35 which does not allow commercial use but
23:01:51 commercial general and neighborhood commercial uses.
23:01:53 I would like to point out also that the applicant is
23:01:58 submitting for a -- they were going to come into our
23:02:02 standard Euclidean zoning district, it would be a
23:02:04 general commercial use so didn't have any listing
23:02:07 commercial use this morning, deintensifying their
23:02:13 site.
23:02:14 So it is possible, and we are likely to see a trend
23:02:18 that you are going to have more neighborhood
23:02:19 commercial and general commercial uses on our major
23:02:22 thoroughfare such as Hillsborough Avenue and Sligh
23:02:25 Avenue and Florida and Nebraska.
23:02:26 We do have a proliferation of intensive commercial
23:02:30 uses, as is reflected here, because as Ms. Kirsie told
23:02:34 you we have a lot of commercial intensive uses that's
23:02:37 reflected right over here with parking areas,
23:02:42 underutilized large parcels of land used for
23:02:47 commercial uses so we hope in the future we'll see the
23:02:50 redevelopment trend such as what the applicant is

23:02:53 offering here which is going to be a general
23:02:55 commercial use, actually going to be something that
23:02:57 the neighborhood, the citizens of the community are
23:02:59 going to be able to actually use, the service is going
23:03:02 to be something that's going to be in the future as
23:03:05 far as the major arterial corridors.
23:03:07 I think this is also reflected by the letters that you
23:03:11 have got support of something like this.
23:03:14 Planning Commission staff finds the proposed request
23:03:16 consistent with the Tampa comprehensive plan.
23:03:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
23:03:24 >>> My name is J.D. Alsabbagh, 8370 West Hillsborough
23:03:37 Avenue, Suite 205, Tampa, Florida 33615 and I already
23:03:43 sworn.
23:03:51 As indicated the project site located in the north
23:03:54 quadrant of Hillsborough Avenue and 40th Street and
23:04:00 this the exiting site has existing, can be utilized
23:04:07 for restaurant.
23:04:09 And the existing conditions is really -- I not good
23:04:14 shape.
23:04:14 Either in the case of the planning, as we see, we have
23:04:20 two access in and out.

23:04:24 Of course, the transportation -- in addition, we don't
23:04:33 have access.
23:04:39 Part owned by the same owner is not utilized.
23:04:42 And the indication is not acceptable due to the -- we
23:04:48 have two small existing trees and one larger tree.
23:04:53 So the existing planning acceptable, and
23:04:59 transportationwise, it's not acceptable.
23:05:13 That's existing median which is closed right now.
23:05:16 So anybody going on Hillsborough Avenue has to go all
23:05:19 the way about a quarter mill to take U-turn and go to
23:05:22 the top.
23:05:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Let me stop you.
23:05:26 Is there anyone in the public that wants ton speak on
23:05:28 item number 14?
23:05:33 Do you want to come up and speak?
23:05:45 Are you for or against it? They are for it.
23:05:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Anybody opposed?
23:05:50 >> nobody opposes.
23:05:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, what did you say, ma'am?
23:05:56 She says she lives right in front.
23:06:03 She wants to hear, is what she said.
23:06:05 >>> She just wanted to see what I'm going to say.

23:06:13 >> As indicated earlier by Ms. Karsi, the proposed
23:06:20 building, with circulation, and will be very adequate
23:06:23 circulation, of course.
23:06:26 For instance, the city code, we have over 190.
23:06:32 154 required.
23:06:34 Access is limited.
23:06:40 The existing sidewalk and to propose Mohawk Avenue
23:06:43 sidewalk.
23:06:43 And something also I did not mention, the area did not
23:06:48 have existing on-site.
23:06:49 Now we are going to have retention pond, treat.
23:06:55 And on Mohawk, is favorable with management, and also
23:07:07 to utilize for loading and unloading for the site.
23:07:11 Clearly, the site in proposed condition will be
23:07:15 serving for existing condition there.
23:07:23 Of course, we meet with the civic association, and
23:07:29 northeast community association, big support, and I
23:07:36 have this letter from him to put into the record.
23:07:42 And he could not wait longer so he has to leave.
23:07:45 Of course we have another letter from someone to speak
23:07:52 on his behalf and himself.
23:07:54 And we have overwhelming support.

23:07:57 In addition, good protection and good buffer to any
23:08:10 residential.
23:08:11 And I would like to let the owner, if you don't mind.
23:08:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Did you hear what you want to hear?
23:08:19 Is it okay?
23:08:21 Okay.
23:08:22 Does anybody else have any concerns?
23:08:25 We can close the public hearing.
23:08:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Let me ask just so the record is
23:08:31 clear, is there anybody who feels absolutely that --
23:08:34 they have every right to speak.
23:08:35 Is there anybody who feels that they want to take the
23:08:37 opportunity to speak?
23:08:38 You don't have to.
23:08:39 If you are in support, council is inclined to move
23:08:47 forward and close the hearing unless somebody has
23:08:49 something they want to say.
23:08:51 I don't see any responding.
23:08:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: (off microphone) I recognize here you
23:09:09 have an outline, need to make revision pertaining to
23:09:13 the tree and landscaping and transportation.
23:09:19 Have you had the opportunity to look at it now?

23:09:22 >>> Well, as we speak with the staff --
23:09:31 >> Agreed to the --
23:09:33 >>> Oh, absolutely agree.
23:09:34 I agree completely.
23:09:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Now, this place, you all are going to
23:09:41 tear the old site down and put up a new structure or
23:09:44 just expanding it?
23:09:45 >>> We have a new structure completed.
23:09:46 >> And the same gyros?
23:09:51 >>> Correct.
23:09:52 Venue.
23:09:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'll move to close.
23:09:57 >>>
23:09:58 >> Second.
23:09:59 (Motion carried)
23:09:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Madam Chair, I am going to move with
23:10:07 the stipulation -- I move the rezoning, in the general
23:10:13 vicinity of 4004 east Hillsborough Avenue, 4005 east
23:10:19 Mohawk Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida more
23:10:21 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
23:10:23 district classifications CI commercial intensive to PD

23:10:28 planned development, restaurant, providing an
23:10:31 effective date.
23:10:32 Also, note, Mr. Clerk, that they agreed to the
23:10:39 revision pertaining to the tree and landscaping and
23:10:43 transportation comment.
23:10:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
23:10:46 All in favor say Aye.
23:10:47 Opposed, Nay.
23:10:47 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent
23:10:50 at vote.
23:10:50 Second reading and adoption will be on March 6th
23:10:52 at 9:30 a.m
23:10:54 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open item 15.
23:11:01 >> So moved.
23:11:01 >> Second.
23:11:02 (Motion carried)
23:11:02 >>JILL FINNEY: Land Development Coordination.
23:11:35 I have been sworn.
23:11:35 You are here for petition Z 0805, 1909 west Busch
23:11:41 Boulevard from CG commercial special use to allow for
23:11:49 a drive-in window with convenience goods.
23:11:53 The petitioner is requesting a special use approval

23:11:56 for the property to allow for the use of a drive-in
23:11:58 window associated with a convenience store.
23:12:01 The 13,500 square foot site is located in a commercial
23:12:05 zoning district and surrounded by professional medical
23:12:08 office to the east, and south of the site, with
23:12:11 residential located to the north.
23:12:13 The site is currently vacant to the north 20 feet.
23:12:19 To the west 23 feet.
23:12:20 To the south 39.2 feet.
23:12:23 And to the east 11 feet.
23:12:25 A total of 10 parking spaces are required and four
23:12:28 spaces everybody provided.
23:12:29 Therefore a waiver has been requested for the deficit
23:12:32 parking spaces.
23:12:34 FDOT has denied access from Busch Boulevard.
23:12:38 Therefore access will be from north Oakland Avenue, no
23:12:43 matter what development happens at the site that's
23:12:44 where the access will have to come from.
23:12:55 Here we have a zoning map of the area.
23:13:01 You can see along the Busch Boulevard corridor,
23:13:04 commercial general, we've office professional located
23:13:08 directly across from the subject property.

23:13:16 Here is an aerial of the site.
23:13:26 Busch Boulevard to the south.
23:13:29 Here is a picture of the site.
23:13:36 And another.
23:13:37 The office is located just to the east of the site.
23:13:42 And this is located to the north.
23:13:45 There's actually a masonry wall located about here.
23:13:49 And then you have the wooded area and then the
23:13:54 residential uses to the north.
23:13:56 Here is the business located to the south of the site.
23:14:02 Going southwest.
23:14:05 And this is located directly to the west of the site.
23:14:17 The office.
23:14:18 City staff has found the petition to be inconsistent
23:14:21 with applicable City of Tampa land development
23:14:23 regulations.
23:14:24 However, if the petitioner is willing to make the
23:14:27 changes between first and second reading that I am
23:14:30 about to advise, we will amend our report and find it
23:14:34 consistent.
23:14:41 We requested they revise the building square footage,
23:14:45 100 square feet to 2500 square feet.

23:14:48 They didn't include the drive aisle in the
23:14:50 calculation.
23:14:51 But we are going to require that they be calculated as
23:14:55 such.
23:14:55 And based on that, adjust the parking waivers to read
23:15:02 to four spaces as opposed to 7 spaces to four space.
23:15:06 Please remove the redundant waivers from the plan,
23:15:08 number one, and number eleven, and add a note to
23:15:13 number 3, and add, and City of Tampa technical
23:15:16 standards, number 5.
23:15:20 Please add a waiver to allow for the waivers number 3
23:15:24 through 5 listed on the front page of the report, to
23:15:28 request waivers of VRB.
23:15:30 These waivers may be reviewed administratively, but
23:15:33 have certain threshold, that it would be granted.
23:15:40 From tree and landscaping, they need to add a note
23:15:43 saying they will provide every ten feet along the wall
23:15:48 to the north and revise waiver number 3 to site the
23:15:52 correct code section, and it should read 13-161.
23:15:58 That concludes my presentation.
23:16:00 I'm available for questions if you have any.
23:16:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Two quick questions.

23:16:05 How wide a street is orthopedically?
23:16:13 Because I have two questions for transportation.
23:16:14 The other is, how come transportation didn't ask for a
23:16:17 channelized driveway leading to the south?
23:16:20 Because seems just from looking at it that Oakleaf is
23:16:24 a pretty narrow residential street and if you have all
23:16:26 the commercial traffic going on, wouldn't we want to
23:16:29 orient that down Busch Boulevard?
23:16:34 So transportation could come up and answer that.
23:16:38 That would than great.
23:16:40 >>> Melanie Calloway, transportation.
23:16:45 If I remember correctly, this is D.O.T. right-of-way
23:16:50 and they would not allow access onto Busch Boulevard
23:16:53 because it's too close to the corner, woo we are
23:16:56 required to allow them access on Oakleaf.
23:16:59 That's why they have access to it.
23:17:01 It looks like on the plan, the right-of-way is wide.
23:17:06 However, actual paved portion of the road.
23:17:11 And 19 feet.
23:17:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could we require channelized access
23:17:22 so all the commercial access will go to the south?
23:17:25 >>> You could.

23:17:26 You could have it so it's a right in, left out.
23:17:31 >> Because my concern is that the neighborhood
23:17:34 shouldn't have a negative impact in this being there.
23:17:38 >>> Okay.
23:17:47 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
23:17:48 I have been sworn.
23:17:50 Just a couple.
23:17:53 Predominant land use category along Westshore
23:17:55 Boulevard which is the major commercial corridor is
23:17:58 community mixed use 35 which does allow the CD, the
23:18:00 existing parcel is CG, existing CG zoning.
23:18:08 They are requesting use of the site to have a
23:18:10 drive-through for a convenience store, and it will
23:18:14 have access onto North Oakleaf.
23:18:16 I believe that's the recommendation, Ms. Saul-Sena, on
23:18:19 the right and left out.
23:18:22 I see even with that, I see no other reason for any
23:18:25 traffic that's going to go north on north Oakleaf but
23:18:28 I think it's prudent to go ahead and do that anyway.
23:18:31 That being the case, we don't really see, the site is
23:18:36 buffered.
23:18:37 There's an existing 6-foot masonry wall and they are

23:18:40 going to have a landscaped buffer I believe to the
23:18:42 east where you have an existing office.
23:18:44 Planning Commission staff found the proposed request
23:18:48 consistent with the comprehensive plan.
23:18:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
23:18:50 >>> Good evening.
23:19:00 Almost good morning.
23:19:01 Linda Pearson with peer son and associate, West Platt,
23:19:05 33606.
23:19:06 I have been sworn.
23:19:07 Also with me tonight is Brian Landizabal, the program
23:19:17 manager, with the engineering firm, also would W me
23:19:20 tonight.
23:19:20 We represent the owner as well as the property owner
23:19:27 Mr. Swenson.
23:19:28 This is a special request for a drive-through
23:19:30 convenience store, much like in concept that you would
23:19:32 have the beverage castle or beverage barn.
23:19:37 When we talk about a drive-through window, staff has
23:19:39 opined, and I will get to that in a moment, that the
23:19:42 drive-through lane that goes through the center of the
23:19:45 building is what they are considering the drive

23:19:48 through, only because it's a unique operation and the
23:19:56 code doesn't specifically address it otherwise.
23:19:58 I think as we move through the presentation tonight
23:20:01 assist knew that regard.
23:20:03 If I can step over to the Elmo for a moment.
23:20:08 The aerial photograph of the subject property is
23:20:10 located in the northeast quadrant of Busch Boulevard
23:20:14 and north Oakleaf Avenue.
23:20:17 Oakleaf dead-ends about four or five blocks north of
23:20:21 here.
23:20:21 It is not a through street.
23:20:22 It goes right into the residential community.
23:20:32 It's not Watters.
23:20:33 What is it?
23:20:34 Armenia.
23:20:34 >> What's a bigger cross street?
23:20:37 >>> Armenia is to the west.
23:20:39 North Boulevard is to the east where Chamberlain high
23:20:42 school is.
23:20:43 These are retention ponds, city ponds here, and I
23:20:46 believe this is an FDOT pond.
23:20:48 The development pattern in the immediate area is for

23:20:51 general commercial, retail, as well as office,
23:20:55 neighborhood commercial retail uses.
23:20:57 The site is currently vacant.
23:21:00 I have some photographs that I can also share with
23:21:03 you.
23:21:05 To give you an idea of what we are talking about
23:21:07 tonight.
23:21:08 It is an approximate one-third acre site, a pretty
23:21:11 large site, so it can accommodate the use.
23:21:14 The zoning is CG, as staff indicated, so the use is a
23:21:18 permitted use.
23:21:20 It has a pretty large oak tree along Oakleaf that we
23:21:25 have taken care of, and we'll be preserving, and staff
23:21:29 has provided us tremendous input on that.
23:21:33 We have the 6-foot high masonry wall along the
23:21:36 northern border that sits approximately three foot
23:21:40 within our property boundary.
23:21:41 So that is not our property line.
23:21:44 Our property line is the fence beyond that.
23:21:48 Here is a photograph of the corner facing east along
23:21:51 Busch Boulevard.
23:21:52 There is an office use there.

23:21:54 And once again this is the tree that we are preserving
23:21:58 and are working around.
23:22:03 There is another photograph of the wall, a little
23:22:06 better view.
23:22:07 Along the northern boundary.
23:22:10 There is a bus stop located at the corner of our site
23:22:13 which we will be accommodating, in our site planning
23:22:17 effort.
23:22:17 This has been a little bit of an eyesore to the
23:22:19 community for awhile, as you can see as evidenced by
23:22:23 the letter that is occurring here.
23:22:28 There is an office use, an office building directly
23:22:32 across the street from us on Oakleaf.
23:22:36 A massage parlor, and I think a reporting service,
23:22:41 office facility there.
23:22:42 As you can see, there are spaces back into Oakleaf.
23:22:47 We have four space as long the side of their driveway
23:22:49 and they have three spaces in their dumpsters.
23:22:54 And you can sit on the steps and get a free tan, as
23:23:00 the sign says.
23:23:01 This is a view to the north.
23:23:05 Ms. Saul-Sena was asking about Oakleaf Avenue, and I

23:23:08 think this is a good evidence of Oakleaf traveling
23:23:11 north.
23:23:12 The subject site is here.
23:23:13 You can see some of the overgrowth that will be taken
23:23:16 care of with the redevelopment of this site.
23:23:22 Once again to the northeast, you have a wall and the
23:23:26 office use to the east.
23:23:29 As indicated by staff, we have received notification
23:23:35 from the D.O.T. that they are denying us access.
23:23:39 Judy Smith who typically reviews all of our rezoning
23:23:42 applications for the city and for the county as well,
23:23:46 has indicated that the required access spacing to the
23:23:49 site from Busch Boulevard does not meet the access
23:23:54 classification, and therefore because Busch Boulevard
23:23:57 is classified as an arterial, it is a major traffic
23:24:01 thoroughfare of the city, and due to safety
23:24:06 transportation concerns, they felt it was too close to
23:24:08 the intersection, and they have denied access.
23:24:11 And I hope that helps to also explain to you what is
23:24:19 happening with the site.
23:24:20 I wanted to also share with you some of the
23:24:23 information relative to the waivers that are being

23:24:26 requested, because I know that typically when you see
23:24:30 a petition that has waivers, there are -- I not always
23:24:35 clearly defined what we are requesting waivers from.
23:24:38 One of the waivers is for the reduction and the
23:24:43 landscape buffer along Busch Boulevard.
23:24:46 The city requires a fee.
23:24:47 We have all of the spaces except the little corner of
23:24:53 this one compact parking space.
23:24:55 That requires a waiver.
23:24:56 But that addresses one of your waivers requests.
23:24:59 Another request is for the garbage truck to be able to
23:25:03 maneuver in the right-of-way, and we have been through
23:25:05 this many times before, as you may recall.
23:25:08 They are always maneuvering in the public
23:25:10 rights-of-way.
23:25:11 In this particular instance we have worked with solid
23:25:14 waste staff, and the garbage truck will be coming from
23:25:16 the north will need to come into the site where we
23:25:19 have our screen enclosure and back out into the
23:25:24 right-of-way, and travel north toward Busch Boulevard.
23:25:30 The question of the buffer on the north side would
23:25:36 come, a 15-foot buffer is required here, and because

23:25:39 transportation wants this driveway moved as far north
23:25:43 so it can have a deeper approach from Busch to the
23:25:46 entrance, ingress-egress to our site.
23:25:49 There is a small section here between the wall and the
23:25:54 driveway that's approximately five feet.
23:25:56 We still have three feet on the other side but it's
23:25:58 just a small area here.
23:26:00 We also have stormwater that is being provided on the
23:26:04 site where there is none now, and most of the
23:26:07 development along this area does not have stormwater
23:26:10 retention because they are older developments.
23:26:15 Let's see, was there any other waiver that I have
23:26:20 forgotten about?
23:26:21 The garbage truck, the parking waiver.
23:26:23 The parking waiver, with our parking calculations were
23:26:27 based on 7 because we were using just the building
23:26:29 store area for that.
23:26:31 Staffer says we must include the 15-foot drive aisle
23:26:36 that goes through the building and therefore the
23:26:38 request is 10.
23:26:38 This facility and its operation uses only two staff
23:26:44 employees at any given time.

23:26:47 Sometimes there's one.
23:26:47 But at the most they staff it with two people.
23:26:50 And we have provided three spaces at this location
23:26:55 that is with permeable side surface to protect the
23:27:03 tree at this location, and we have also provided
23:27:05 handicapped ADA parking here with a paved sidewalk so
23:27:10 they could enter into the building, if they ever
23:27:12 wanted to, but this operation is somewhat different
23:27:16 and is not truly addressed in your parking and
23:27:19 landscaping, parking and loading regulations and that
23:27:24 people don't generally come in here and park.
23:27:27 It's not set up for that type of service.
23:27:30 So we have approximately 154 feet of queuing area that
23:27:34 can occur on the site so that there will be no queuing
23:27:38 within the public right-of-way of Oakleaf.
23:27:43 And I believe that that pretty much covers the design
23:27:49 exceptions and the waivers that we have requested.
23:27:52 I think it is very important to note that this
23:27:54 developer is very willing to work with staff.
23:27:57 We are trying to accommodate them.
23:27:59 The changes in the site plan that you see tonight will
23:28:03 not occur here.

23:28:04 It will occur in May.
23:28:06 It's only to the waiver and deletion of some notes.
23:28:13 Those changes have been already made and are ready to
23:28:17 be submitted to the following tonight's hearing, in
23:28:20 the event there are any other changes, but you decide
23:28:22 that you need to include in the event that you do.
23:28:25 I think it is important also to note as far as green
23:28:29 space and open space, this site right now is providing
23:28:34 over two times the minimum green space for a vehicular
23:28:40 use area than what code requires.
23:28:43 Code requires about 900 feet providing about a little
23:28:46 over 2,000.
23:28:48 And I think that is important.
23:28:51 That excludes the retention pond area, because it will
23:28:55 be over two feet deep.
23:28:56 But there will be even more open space in that
23:28:59 respect.
23:29:01 The wall that we showed you will be enhanced, and
23:29:06 dressed up and for development and landscaping.
23:29:11 And it's a wonderful opportunity for this developer to
23:29:13 move into the area, redevelop this site and beautify
23:29:17 it along the Busch corridor.

23:29:20 I would like to answer any questions that you may
23:29:22 have.
23:29:24 And in the event that you have -- if there's anyone
23:29:27 that wishes to speak, I would withhold any further
23:29:30 comment.
23:29:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is this like a farm store?
23:29:37 >>> It's different from a farm store because it's a
23:29:40 little larger, and the farm store you drive under a
23:29:42 canopy, whereas this situation, there will be
23:29:46 merchandise on both sides of the building, and you
23:29:48 will be served by staff and the cashier.
23:29:53 But would you drive into the building, odd your loaf
23:29:55 of bread, your jug of milk, potato chips, whatever.
23:30:02 >> Beer?
23:30:02 >>> Well, we are not wet zoned so I don't think so.
23:30:05 But, you know, who knows what will happen in the
23:30:08 future?
23:30:08 But at this time, you would pay at the window and
23:30:11 never get out of your car and then just drive away
23:30:14 from the car.
23:30:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The exterior appearance, it just
23:30:18 looks like a metal butler building or something but

23:30:21 maybe I'm not reading it right.
23:30:22 You tell me.
23:30:23 >>> The information that has been submitted thus far,
23:30:25 that that is correct.
23:30:26 >> So it's a completely opaque, solid, windowless,
23:30:34 square building?
23:30:37 >>> From the information that has been provided thus
23:30:39 far, that is correct.
23:30:42 There is a door, 14-foot wide door, and doors on two
23:30:47 sides.
23:30:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public to speak
23:30:56 on item 15?
23:30:57 Come up and speak.
23:30:59 Item 15.
23:31:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Ms. Pearson, now that council is
23:31:11 always concerned with aesthetics. Is there anything
23:31:14 more encouraging you can say about this building?
23:31:16 >>> We have discussed it.
23:31:18 We have had discussions with the client, and certainly
23:31:21 they are willing to work with the city staff.
23:31:24 You know, there are no development standards to go by
23:31:28 in your commercial code, just for your typical

23:31:33 Euclidean zoning district.
23:31:34 >> Usually things are -- do they have another example
23:31:39 of this somewhere that we could see?
23:32:02 >>> The beverage castle -- beverage barn, excuse me.
23:32:08 >>> My name is -- I'm here on behalf of Dr. Richard
23:32:20 Vegas.
23:32:21 He's a dentist, operates in an office building west of
23:32:26 the site of the drive-through store, 2001 west Busch
23:32:31 Boulevard and he's actually out of town so I am here
23:32:34 on his behalf.
23:32:34 I have and affidavit from him that I will present at
23:32:36 the end of my speech.
23:32:38 And I also have an affidavit from Mr. Albano who
23:32:43 leases space out of the same building.
23:32:44 He has leased space at the building for 20 years.
23:32:47 Dr. Canages for to years.
23:32:52 Doctor Salmon owns the building.
23:32:53 He is also present today.
23:32:55 He will be speaking as well.
23:32:58 The building right here.
23:33:08 Sections 2, 3 and 4.
23:33:10 I'm here today to present on the record an objection

23:33:12 to the petitioner's request for the special use of
23:33:17 petitioner proposal of the code section 27-272, sets
23:33:22 the standards for the drive-through store.
23:33:24 The code requires access to a collector road,
23:33:28 therefore the store should be accessible, but since it
23:33:32 was denied by the Department of Transportation, all
23:33:34 the access would be a very small local road which is
23:33:38 Oakleaf.
23:33:38 The traffic, I don't know if you saw the traffic sign,
23:33:41 it's 25 miles per hour, minimum traffic on this road
23:33:44 very close to a residential neighborhood, there's no
23:33:48 traffic light, and I do have photos of the layout that
23:33:54 I'm referring to.
23:33:58 Number one is Oakleaf.
23:34:01 Dr. Salmon property.
23:34:04 And the remaining three pictures, that's a view from
23:34:07 the lot from the office building.
23:34:12 3 and 4 shows the parking spaces immediately adjacent
23:34:15 to -- as you can see, the cars are parked right along
23:34:19 the access road here.
23:34:23 Pictures 2 and 4 show residential homes in the
23:34:26 background.

23:34:27 I think you can even see a portion of the wall that is
23:34:30 referenced.
23:34:34 Also this proposal will increase traffic, problems
23:34:38 accessing the office building.
23:34:41 There's also no buffer to the west side of the
23:34:43 proposed store.
23:34:48 The Tampa comprehensive plan.
23:34:50 The plan indicates that new developments -- increase
23:34:56 noise, vibrations, odor, increased traffic, I think it
23:35:00 prevents a -- presents a safety hazard to pedestrians,
23:35:04 those that park along the edge of the road.
23:35:08 Problems accessing the building.
23:35:10 A lot of negative impact on the surrounding
23:35:12 professional businesses, including Dr. Canegas, Dr.
23:35:17 Albanos and Mr. Salmon property.
23:35:23 The proposal is not complementary to the existing
23:35:26 community character, there's no drive throughs in this
23:35:28 area.
23:35:29 I think the closest one is Bougainvillea, and on
23:35:32 Florida Avenue, this store is next to two gas
23:35:35 stations, a car dealership, it has access to a busy
23:35:38 road, and there's no nearby residential community, and

23:35:42 therefore the surrounding of that store is much
23:35:44 different than the property at issue.
23:35:46 And I have an affidavit with me that I would like to
23:35:50 submit from Dr. Canegas to attach to the record.
23:35:54 I would also like to submit photographs that I have
23:36:01 with me today, and Dr. Salmon is here and would like
23:36:04 to be say a few words on his behalf.
23:36:07 I don't know who I give this to.
23:36:10 >> Hand to the me and I'll pass it around.
23:36:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
23:36:15 >>> George chambers, I own the property directly
23:36:27 across the street from this place.
23:36:28 My tenants have expressed much worry to me that the
23:36:32 traffic is going to be horrendous when this place goes
23:36:39 in.
23:36:40 It's tight already and it's going to be worse.
23:36:42 We don't feel -- that comes up to the standard that we
23:36:46 would like to have.
23:36:48 I'm tired and it's been a long day.
23:36:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
23:36:51 Would anyone else like to speak?
23:36:53 Petitioner?

23:36:56 Mr. Caetano had a question.
23:36:58 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Is there a sidewalk on bush on
23:37:00 that side, the people on the other side of the street?
23:37:06 Is there a sidewalk there?
23:37:13 >>> I can answer that for you with a photo, I believe.
23:37:36 There is a sidewalk that does extend over.
23:37:39 >> On the side where this proposed building is going
23:37:41 to be?
23:37:42 >>> Yes.
23:37:43 And we will be constructing a sidewalk along Oakleaf
23:37:47 around the oak tree, and to the limits of our
23:37:51 property.
23:37:52 >> Is there a sidewalk on the other side of Busch
23:37:54 where that doctor is located?
23:37:55 >>> Yes.
23:37:58 And I can show you that also.
23:38:00 In a photograph.
23:38:02 This is their entry sign.
23:38:04 This is Busch.
23:38:05 This is the office building.
23:38:07 And you can see there's sidewalks there.
23:38:14 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you.

23:38:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can I ask you a question?
23:38:18 Condition we go back to the previous picture?
23:38:21 What is the use?
23:38:29 I assume that's to the east of your property.
23:38:32 >>> It's an office use.
23:38:34 >> It's an office.
23:38:35 And then the Drs. Office is an office use to the other
23:38:37 side?
23:38:38 >>> Yes.
23:38:39 This office building is CG zoning here.
23:38:46 The doctor's office, is the only office zoning that is
23:38:51 in this area along both north and south Busch
23:38:55 Boulevard.
23:38:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
23:38:57 >>> And on behalf of the property owners, the
23:39:01 development along this side of the street, it a very
23:39:04 nice development.
23:39:04 It's very neat.
23:39:05 It's very well landscaped.
23:39:07 And it's very nice.
23:39:13 It's in a nonconforming status because they have
23:39:16 seven, I believe, parking space that is back out

23:39:18 directly into Oakleaf.
23:39:20 I can give you a demonstration of that.
23:39:22 Here's the three northern parking spaces here.
23:39:25 And their dumpster sits in the right-of-way, and if we
23:39:36 are concerned about looking out for the neighborhood
23:39:37 and the single-family house that it's next to it, I
23:39:40 think of that we should look in our own backyard
23:39:43 before we start accusing others of new development
23:39:46 that's going to meet today's standard and be windy an
23:39:50 enclosure.
23:39:50 I where I that to you only because their concern of
23:39:54 traffic and safety on Oakleaf is exacerbated by their
23:39:57 own site plan, and of their own design.
23:39:59 Now, in years past that was the permitted way to
23:40:04 address your parking issue.
23:40:05 It is not a permitted way to address them today
23:40:10 without you making that decision.
23:40:11 So I stress that point only because they have to
23:40:18 driveways.
23:40:19 One on Busch, one on Oakleaf.
23:40:27 God forbid something should happen to their building
23:40:29 and they have to redevelop this site because they

23:40:31 would also be denied access on Busch and that would
23:40:34 limit their development opportunities as well.
23:40:42 That also is stormwater treatment that we are
23:40:44 accommodating within our site plan.
23:40:45 We are not going to be parking and maneuvering in the
23:40:47 public right-of-way.
23:40:48 And, you know, they are enjoying the use of their
23:40:52 property.
23:40:52 We are happy for them.
23:40:56 Mr. Millie wants to enjoy the use of his highest and
23:41:01 best opportunities for his own property.
23:41:03 I have heard no valid comments tonight that were for
23:41:07 the denial of the request but the special views, and
23:41:10 we are willing to work, you know, in considering
23:41:14 opportunities you might have.
23:41:16 The future access for this site, which allows the use
23:41:20 of going there.
23:41:21 The only reason we are here tonight is for the
23:41:23 drive-through opportunity.
23:41:27 And the other waiver we were asking for.
23:41:30 Forgive me.
23:41:31 I knew there was one more.

23:41:33 And I'm sure staff would help me out with it before I
23:41:36 quit.
23:41:37 The drive-through window that they are talking about,
23:41:39 it requires a 50 fight foot distance from a
23:41:42 residential area.
23:41:43 It's to be at this location right here which is the
23:41:47 exit from the building as it goes back out to Oakleaf
23:41:51 to leave the location.
23:41:53 There's not a speaker.
23:41:55 There's no, you know, 24 hour operation is not
23:41:58 anticipated.
23:41:59 We are providing a 31.5-foot distance from that
23:42:03 location.
23:42:04 So that is the reason for the last waiver.
23:42:08 And I apologize for omitting that earlier.
23:42:11 It had skipped my mind.
23:42:14 Let's see, I think currently the site is an eyesore
23:42:22 for that community and the Busch corridor and it's an
23:42:24 entry into that area because Oakleaf does get in --
23:42:29 the space without the pond once again was twice what
23:42:33 code requires for vehicular use area.
23:42:35 We are improving the aesthetics and aesthetically

23:42:38 enhancing by landscaping the solid brick wall that's
23:42:42 there that's nasty and mildewed now.
23:42:46 The tree protection and efforts are being provided.
23:42:51 We can meet all of staff's requirements within a very
23:42:54 short time for the textual changes to the notes and
23:43:00 the waivers that they have requested.
23:43:06 Certainly we are on to any other comments, questions,
23:43:08 suggestions or comments.
23:43:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What are you doing for lighting? I
23:43:12 see 10 and 11.
23:43:15 I didn't see any lighting on the site plan.
23:43:25 >>> I believe there is a lamp.
23:43:27 I can see there is kind of a globe and they shoot up
23:43:31 the building and down the building, the light.
23:43:33 But it doesn't extend.
23:43:34 There's no overhead power night lights that are going
23:43:37 to extend.
23:43:39 >> But there's no free standing lights?
23:43:41 >>> Correct.
23:43:41 >> What about signage?
23:43:42 >>> The signage and the notes of the site plan
23:43:46 indicate that it will be on the building.

23:43:49 I don't think that we have provided any monument or
23:43:52 pole signs.
23:43:53 There will be none.
23:43:54 >> I didn't see any on the site plan.
23:43:56 I was just wondering.
23:43:57 And what percentage of the site will be hardscaped?
23:44:04 >>> The asphalt pavement.
23:44:10 And the building floor area.
23:44:12 The asphalt pavement that you see in gray.
23:44:15 And the handicapped space will be a hard surface.
23:44:19 There will be a concrete floor underneath the building
23:44:22 itself where the merchandise will be sitting.
23:44:25 The rest is all sod, green space, and landscaping.
23:44:31 >> Where are the other parking spaces?
23:44:33 >> There are three here.
23:44:35 As you come in its a one-way drive aisle.
23:44:38 The employees will park here.
23:44:40 Handicapped available will be here.
23:44:42 And we will continue on into the store to do your
23:44:47 purchase and leave the store.
23:44:52 >> Did you happen to notify the neighbors physically
23:44:56 adjacent to the north?

23:45:00 >>> Yes.
23:45:01 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Who presented the pictures?
23:45:07 >>GWEN MILLER: They did.
23:45:09 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Those cars, are they parked on
23:45:11 Oakleaf?
23:45:13 They are on Oakleaf?
23:45:15 Now, it looks like the sidewalk --
23:45:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Why don't you come up, ma'am?
23:45:25 >>> It looks like the sidewalk stops where the
23:45:28 dumpster is.
23:45:30 And evidently, it looks like the sidewalk was paved
23:45:34 over.
23:45:35 So there is no sidewalk there.
23:45:36 It stops where the dumpster is.
23:45:40 Why did they pave over the sidewalk?
23:45:43 Or wasn't there a sidewalk there?
23:45:45 >>> I said I don't know.
23:45:52 >>> When it was built 25 years ago there was no
23:46:01 sidewalk on Oakleaf.
23:46:04 An old house was, the builder put the sidewalk there
23:46:06 and stopped at the dumpster.
23:46:09 >> There never was a sidewalk there?

23:46:12 >>> No, sir.
23:46:14 >> The houses came after the office building?
23:46:18 >>> Yes there. Was one house there.
23:46:20 They tore it down.
23:46:25 Concrete.
23:46:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Can people park in front of that
23:46:29 dumpster?
23:46:30 >>> It wouldn't be a good idea.
23:46:32 >> But you have parking spaces there because you have
23:46:35 stops for the cars.
23:46:36 >>> Yes.
23:46:39 There's parking spaces right next to the dumpster,
23:46:41 yes.
23:46:46 I thought you meant between the dumpster and Oakleaf.
23:46:48 >> On this picture here, you have the bumper for the
23:46:52 cars.
23:46:52 >> I think there's three right there at the dumpster.
23:46:56 >> Well, one of them is taken up by the dumpster.
23:46:59 So there's only two.
23:46:59 >>> Yes.
23:47:03 The dumpster was put in there.
23:47:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena?

23:47:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Sir, I'm looking at this site plan.
23:47:14 And the underlying land use is PG.
23:47:18 It looks like there's a lot of office and residential
23:47:20 uses and vacant pieces of property to the south.
23:47:23 Is that true?
23:47:26 >>> To the south?
23:47:27 >> on the south side of Busch Boulevard here.
23:47:30 >>> Right across the street from my building there's a
23:47:33 realtor's office and another office.
23:47:38 Then there's another office space.
23:47:40 >>:
23:47:40 >>: Mostly office uses along there?
23:47:42 >>> And the main reason for that is that the railroad
23:47:45 goes right behind those.
23:47:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
23:47:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
23:47:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Melanie, if I could.
23:47:53 I'm looking at chapter 27-272.
23:47:59 It speaks to drive-in window.
23:48:02 It says standards shall be used in designing
23:48:05 applications for approval,a, have direct access to
23:48:10 arterial or collector street as shown on a major

23:48:13 street map.
23:48:15 The Oakleaf is neither, correct?
23:48:20 >>> Melanie: Oakleaf is a local street but if you
23:48:23 look at chapter 26-J, parking lots to access arterial
23:48:27 collector streets unless the jurisdiction of that
23:48:31 right-of-way dense that access, which in this case,
23:48:35 D.O.T. has denied any access, any driveway, no matter
23:48:40 if it was a drive-through, or a parking lot, would not
23:48:45 allow that on Busch Boulevard because it does not meet
23:48:47 the corner clearance requirement.
23:48:49 Therefore, they have a right to access Oakleaf, a
23:48:54 local street.
23:48:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: For typical development, but they
23:48:59 don't necessarily have right to access it for a
23:49:02 drive-through and that's why this be is here today?
23:49:04 >>> Any driveway.
23:49:06 They denied a driveway access permit.
23:49:09 They denied a driveway there.
23:49:11 Driveway, if it was a parking lot or a drive-through,
23:49:14 they are denying it as a drive-way cut.
23:49:17 >> It's a double lot.
23:49:18 >>> Yes.

23:49:19 >> So they have got more than 100 feet of frontage?
23:49:23 >>> But that wasn't what was in front of them.
23:49:27 This plan that took two lots, and they denied the
23:49:30 access for the driveway in that location.
23:49:33 >> Was it appealed?
23:49:36 >>> No.
23:49:38 The petitioner said that they -- it was too close to
23:49:42 the corner.
23:49:45 What we requested is a letter from D.O.T., and they
23:49:48 definitely give us alert, and we a bid by them.
23:49:50 It's their jurisdiction.
23:49:52 >> So was it appealed to D.O.T. or was it just a
23:49:55 denial?
23:49:56 >>> It was just a denial.
23:49:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry, what was the basis for
23:50:02 denial?
23:50:03 I didn't catch that.
23:50:04 >>> They denied the driveway on Busch Boulevard,
23:50:09 D.O.T. right-of-way, they denied it because it too
23:50:10 close to the corner, spacing requirement.
23:50:24 According to the thing that I got from them, they
23:50:26 asked D.O.T. requirements, the four-lane divided

23:50:31 roadway, and the speed of the roadway, which is quite
23:50:34 high, because as you know.
23:50:38 --
23:50:47 Out their jurisdiction.
23:50:48 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Dingfelder, you said chapter
23:50:53 27, drive-through window. But this is not a
23:50:56 drive-through window.
23:50:57 You're driving through the building.
23:50:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Caetano says this isn't a
23:51:07 drive-through window, it's a drive-through window but
23:51:10 I think in our code it's described as one in the same?
23:51:13 >>> I think the issue -- and I'm sort of just sort of
23:51:16 thinking it through as we were talking about it.
23:51:18 When Melanie is talking about a standard that has
23:51:21 access on a local road for commercial -- if you have
23:51:26 no access on an arterial collector, and she's correct,
23:51:31 that is a matter of right, they have the right to
23:51:33 access, what is it, Oakleaf to the commercial.
23:51:37 What's in front of you is a special use permit.
23:51:40 There are standards for your special needs permit.
23:51:43 One of the standards is, shall have access in
23:51:46 arteriole or collector.

23:51:48 So not withstanding what Ms. Calloway said, which is
23:51:52 absolutely right, it not looking at it through the
23:51:55 eyes of the requirements for the access but there
23:51:58 through the eyes of your special use permit.
23:52:01 Therefore in looking at it, probably what we need to
23:52:04 be added to the site plan is a waiver of that
23:52:07 provision.
23:52:12 I don't know, and the zoning administrator's role is
23:52:14 to interpret the code as well.
23:52:16 I don't know if she's going to have a different
23:52:18 opinion on that.
23:52:19 So I don't want to take away her rights to make that
23:52:23 call and have some justification for it and how you
23:52:26 take these two provisions and merge them.
23:52:28 But just talking today, I would recommend in moving
23:52:33 forward that we have a waiver to that provision.
23:52:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If there's justification.
23:52:39 >>JULIA COLE: Correct, if there's justification under
23:52:43 your waiver provision.
23:52:44 Given all of this, though, and given the fact that I
23:52:47 really feel a compulsion to have a zoning
23:52:52 administrator review this and look at it, the issues

23:52:55 that Melanie raised -- and I hate to do it at this
23:52:58 late hour -- I would be more inclined to ask you to
23:53:00 continue it, to deal with that issue, than I would to
23:53:05 just have you approve or deny on that particular
23:53:08 basis.
23:53:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question, Julia.
23:53:11 It says here that they are asking for a waiver of
23:53:14 parking spaces from ten spaces to four spaces.
23:53:18 This is a very particular, and one might say peculiar
23:53:23 configuration and use and request.
23:53:28 If for some reason this were granted, and if this
23:53:33 drive-through building were to morph into something
23:53:37 else, council and the community couldn't go back and
23:53:41 say, the other use, office use, you have to have more
23:53:47 parking space, we have what we have.
23:53:49 >>> Well, I would think that it -- the special use
23:53:56 would -- you would have to comply with the --
23:54:02 >> But what we have is a commercial building that's
23:54:04 only four parking space.
23:54:05 >>> And it would be a violation of the underlying
23:54:09 code.
23:54:09 When you trigger a change of use that would require

23:54:11 the site to come in to today's standards.
23:54:15 You have to start over, the waivers would not be
23:54:20 applicable.
23:54:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So the recommendation, Julia, is
23:54:24 that zoning administrator needs to look at it, we need
23:54:27 to continue this and deliberate another day?
23:54:30 >>JULIA COLE: That would be my recommendation, and I
23:54:32 would recommendation doing either one without having
23:54:34 the benefit of that.
23:54:41 >>> May I speak at the pleasure of the council?
23:54:43 I know it's very late.
23:54:45 Staff has opined that they are interpreting us as a
23:54:48 drive-through.
23:54:50 You know?
23:54:51 That argument is dead in our view because we tried it
23:54:55 weeks ago.
23:54:55 They said you're here, you need to go for a special
23:54:59 use, you're a drive-through, that's fine, we are
23:55:02 asking for the waiver of that.
23:55:03 That decision has been made.
23:55:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The waiver of the requirements of
23:55:07 drive-through.

23:55:08 You're asking for a waiver of the requirements of the
23:55:11 drive-through that I just read, right?
23:55:12 Is that what you're saying?
23:55:14 The requirements --
23:55:15 >>> I am saying that they have already opined that
23:55:17 it's a drive-through.
23:55:18 That's why we are here F.they had not opined that we
23:55:21 wouldn't be for a special use.
23:55:22 >> Right.
23:55:23 And so I'm looking at this page, 27-272, under
23:55:27 drive-in window, and it has certain standards for
23:55:31 drive-through.
23:55:33 And one of the standards is that there's only direct
23:55:36 access to arterial collector.
23:55:39 So what Julia is saying therefore you have to seek a
23:55:43 waiver of that provision in order to move forward,
23:55:46 right?
23:55:46 >> And we would add that waiver to the site plan.
23:55:50 That's a note, another text change which we can
23:55:52 accommodate tomorrow, and submit it immediately.
23:55:54 And that's not a problem for us.

23:55:57 I'm just saying to continue it infinitely so you have
23:56:01 to go over and over again, I mean, they have opined we
23:56:04 are a drive-through.
23:56:05 We accept. That we're here.
23:56:06 And we can add the text to the site plan itself.
23:56:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we need to have a final
23:56:12 word from our legal on this.
23:56:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I am going to move to disapprove
23:56:16 this.
23:56:16 So I think that this is absolutely not compatible with
23:56:21 the surrounding land uses.
23:56:24 And it's asking for waivers that are built into our
23:56:26 code.
23:56:27 So --
23:56:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let's move the question.
23:56:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move the question.
23:56:34 >>MARY MULHERN: I am just trying to understand the
23:56:38 FDOT.
23:56:39 I mean, what use would they allow?
23:56:45 Is this because of this?
23:56:47 It's a commercial use.
23:56:48 Why is it -- it's because they have to have two

23:56:57 driveways, in and out.
23:56:59 >>> Melanie Calloway, transportation.
23:57:02 I'm not D.O.T.
23:57:03 But they are saying that the driveway is too close to
23:57:07 the corner.
23:57:07 And if you place it on Oakleaf, it will be further
23:57:10 from the corner and safer.
23:57:13 Because it's a four-lane divided highway.
23:57:18 Bidirectional turn lane in the middle.
23:57:20 >>MARY MULHERN: And I ask the petitioner, that's the
23:57:26 only way -- that's the only place that you can put
23:57:28 that drive --
23:57:31 >>> That drive is as far away as the intersection as
23:57:34 can be placed.
23:57:35 The property is longer than it is wide.
23:57:37 It's 105 feet wide, 75 feet does not meet the access
23:57:42 management standards for D.O.T. for driveway cuts on
23:57:45 an arterial road.
23:57:47 Particularly, you know, if we were an interior parcel
23:57:50 they could not deny us access.
23:57:52 But because we are a corner parcel they can deny us,

23:57:57 and that is something of this done in replying to
23:58:01 staff, and that's why we are really here.
23:58:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
23:58:10 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to close.
23:58:13 (Motion carried).
23:58:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Madam Chairman.
23:58:18 The petition before us is asking for a special use of
23:58:21 a drive-in, and to accomplish that we have to grant
23:58:27 two waivers.
23:58:29 Based on an observation of the proposed location, I
23:58:33 feel that the request for waivers are not valid, and
23:58:37 therefore I remedies approval.
23:58:39 I vote -- I move.
23:58:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I second that and will elaborate
23:58:46 because it's a statutory requirement.
23:58:47 Specifically 27-272, that because it's a drive-in
23:58:51 window, our code requires to have direct access to
23:58:56 arterial collector street.
23:58:59 In addition, our code requires that the drive-in
23:59:04 window be at least 50 feet from residential property.
23:59:07 It obviously doesn't meet either of these.
23:59:10 Those are some of the waivers that they requested.

23:59:13 The evidence we heard tonight, and especially from the
23:59:16 doctor's office across the street, but also the
23:59:18 evidence that I saw in the photographs, show that this
23:59:21 is the entryway, petitioner said this is the entryway
23:59:26 into that Oakleaf neighborhood.
23:59:27 And I think that it's inconsistent and incompatible
23:59:31 with the that adjacent neighborhood, and the adjacent
23:59:34 office uses that are on there.
23:59:37 If they -- the if F they say it's going to be a
23:59:40 beverage barn, okay, then a nice section of Busch
23:59:46 Boulevard.
23:59:46 Fountain was on the other end of Busch Boulevard to
23:59:48 the east so be it.
23:59:50 That's an ugly section of Busch Boulevard.
23:59:52 But this is a nice section of Busch Boulevard.
23:59:53 And I believe consistent with what these doctors said
00:00:59 that this is also inconsistent with the comprehensive
00:00:00 plan, because it mitigates the impact on the
00:00:02 surrounding residential zoned businesses.
00:00:11 Busch is arterial.
00:00:16 >> Arterial.
00:00:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With regard to council member

00:00:20 Saul-Sena, when you talked about the waivers, I
00:00:22 believe you were referencing section 27-324 with
00:00:26 regard to the criteria for waivers.
00:00:28 Is that correct?
00:00:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I was -- I was -- yes.
00:00:39 >> we have a motion and second for denial.
00:00:45 All in favor say Aye.
00:00:46 Opposed, Nay.
00:00:48 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano voting no and
00:00:51 Miranda being absent at vote.
00:00:54 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open item 16.
00:00:58 >> So moved.
00:00:59 >> Second.
00:00:59 (Motion carried)
00:01:03 >>> LaChone Dock, Land Development Coordination.
00:01:49 I have been sworn.
00:01:50 Petition is before you tonight is Z 08-on the for the
00:01:53 property located at 6808 and 6812 south Himes Avenue.
00:01:59 The request is touch rezone the property to RS-50
00:02:02 residential single-family.
00:02:04 The petitioner proposes to rezone the property to
00:02:07 create three buildable zoning lots, measuring 55 by

00:02:10 110.
00:02:11 The subdivision originally platted in 1925 with 50
00:02:17 feet by 75-foot lots.
00:02:19 >> Can you get a little louder for us?
00:02:21 We are getting old and it's getting late.
00:02:23 >>> The site contains one single-family residential
00:02:26 structure which will be demolished pending rezoning
00:02:28 approval.
00:02:30 Standard setbacks for RS-50 are as follows: 20-foot
00:02:34 front yard, 20-foot rear yard, 7-foot side yard.
00:02:37 This request is for Euclidean zoning district.
00:02:39 Therefore no site plan is required.
00:02:42 The proposed construction must adhere to all
00:02:45 applicable City of Tampa development regulations.
00:02:58 >> I have a question. I'm looking at the site and it
00:03:00 appears there are some significant trees on there. My
00:03:01 understanding of Euclidean district is you can't get
00:03:03 any waivers from the existing rules to protect the
00:03:05 trees.
00:03:05 And I'm just concerned that the petitioner really
00:03:08 understands that.
00:03:10 Have you had that conversation with the petitioner?

00:03:13 >>> LACHONE DOCK: Well, the petitioner would have
00:03:21 received the staff report.
00:03:22 And before they actually submit their plans for
00:03:24 permitting they would have to meet code.
00:03:26 And they cannot request a waiver.
00:03:31 >> Well, when the petitioner comes up we'll ask them.
00:03:34 Thank you.
00:03:38 Here's an aerial of the property.
00:03:47 This is the site located on Himes.
00:03:49 And Dale Mabry is west of the site.
00:03:52 Van Buren is north of the site.
00:03:54 Further north there's a point of reference, Interbay.
00:03:58 Mostly RS 50 zoning designation there.
00:04:07 Here's an aerial of the site.
00:04:11 Himes is west of the site.
00:04:13 Van Buren is north.
00:04:16 Mark em is to the south.
00:04:17 >> Is this like the last block of Himes before you hit
00:04:21 the base?
00:04:22 >>> Well, Interbay is north.
00:04:26 To the east of the site.
00:04:27 So it is pretty far south.

00:04:29 >> That looks like that's the base right down at the
00:04:31 bottom of the picture.
00:04:33 >>> Well, this is a park.
00:04:34 That's Gadsden park.
00:04:38 And this is the map of the area.
00:04:43 They have a total of 165 lots that were included in
00:04:45 the survey.
00:04:53 128 or 78% of the lots were nonconform and those are
00:04:56 lots that are in blue.
00:05:04 And pictures of the site.
00:05:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is that tree in the neighbor's
00:05:09 yard?
00:05:09 >>> This is a picture of the site.
00:05:12 >> That's exactly my concern.
00:05:15 Can we hear from our tree lady?
00:05:18 >>> Mary Daniels Bryson, Land Development
00:05:21 Coordination.
00:05:22 Yes, I have been sworn.
00:05:26 I received a copy of my staff report indicating there
00:05:27 are significant trees on the site and that I would
00:05:30 request a commitment from the petitioner stating that
00:05:34 they will preserve those trees in alike manner to the

00:05:38 canopy of the existing neighborhood.
00:05:41 And the petitioner has a copy of that.
00:05:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
00:05:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
00:05:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It might be a little premature but
00:05:53 the evening is getting late.
00:05:54 Because of those trees, I have seen very creative
00:05:56 plans that work around trees like that.
00:06:00 I appreciate they want three houses on two lots and in
00:06:05 this neighborhood, you know, with the pattern of
00:06:09 splits that we had down there, I don't know that I or
00:06:12 the neighborhood -- I think the way to do it is with a
00:06:19 PD.
00:06:19 They can shove forward and move back and slide around
00:06:22 and get around those trees.
00:06:23 But if they are Euclidean and we approve it tonight,
00:06:26 they are not going to be able to jockey around those
00:06:29 trees.
00:06:31 >>> I agree.
00:06:32 And that is why I did make the cautionary note that
00:06:34 they should.
00:06:38 But I do agree a PD would be a better --

00:06:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could we just hear from the
00:06:43 petitioner?
00:06:45 Tony, could you give us the abbreviated version?
00:06:54 >>> I have my pictures of the site.
00:06:57 That's the western portion of the site.
00:07:05 This is the home north of the site.
00:07:12 This is south of the site.
00:07:18 Another picture south of the site.
00:07:29 >>LaCHONE DOCK: This is a block south of the site.
00:07:36 Across the street from the site itself.
00:07:39 And another picture.
00:07:41 And another single-family across from the site.
00:07:48 Staff has reviewed the petition and found the request
00:07:50 consistent.
00:08:16 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
00:08:18 I have been sworn.
00:08:19 We are allowing under A-1.3, you have to build the
00:08:25 residential standards which they are doing.
00:08:27 They are requesting -- not this particular council
00:08:34 elected here, but --
00:08:40 on this segment of pine for rezoning standards.
00:08:52 (off microphone)

00:08:53 I am going to see if you can resolve the issue of
00:09:01 going to the VRB because I think those are two options
00:09:04 they have.
00:09:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
00:09:16 >> Euclidean.
00:09:27 >>> Good evening.
00:09:28 My name is Danai Diaz, for 6808 and 6812 south Himes
00:09:41 Avenue.
00:09:42 Lots 8, 9 and 12, block 5.
00:09:45 This is according -- we have three lots, and each lot
00:09:56 according to the site plan -- we know we have to say
00:10:07 the trees, and we are going to work with that.
00:10:11 We don't have the plans for the house yet.
00:10:19 But we know we have to save the trees according to
00:10:23 code.
00:10:23 And another thing is that we sent to the neighborhood
00:10:26 association, and the neighborhood association meeting,
00:10:29 and we sent the good neighbor notice, a lot of phone
00:10:35 calls telling me that they are okay with plans.
00:10:40 And I have letters from the president of the
00:10:42 association telling me that they are agreeing with
00:10:43 that.

00:10:46 So the best of my knowledge I don't have nobody
00:10:48 against the petition.
00:10:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
00:10:52 wants ton speak on item 16?
00:10:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
00:10:57 I honestly have no problem with you putting three
00:10:59 houses there. But I just need to know that you
00:11:03 understand that it's not just saving the trees.
00:11:06 You have to set back a certain number of feet from
00:11:09 them, and that if you can't build too close, and you
00:11:13 can't build a two-story house that impacts a major
00:11:16 limb of the tree.
00:11:18 So as long as you really understand that, and you can
00:11:21 figure out how to get three houses on those lots
00:11:24 without any waivers, then that's good.
00:11:27 But if anything happens to the tree, and it's removed
00:11:31 in the middle of the night or whatever, then you can't
00:11:34 pull a building permit for three years.
00:11:36 So you just need to know that.
00:11:38 >>> We understand that.
00:11:40 Thank you.
00:11:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council members?

00:11:44 Need to close the public hearing.
00:11:45 >> So moved.
00:11:45 >> Second.
00:11:48 >> Motion and second to close.
00:11:49 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
00:11:51 Opposed, Nay.
00:11:52 >> A motion to move property in the general of 6808
00:12:07 and 6812 south Himes Avenue in the city of Tampa,
00:12:10 Florida and more particularly described in section 1
00:12:12 from zoning district classifications RS-60 residential
00:12:16 single-family to RS-50, residential single-family,
00:12:21 providing an effective date.
00:12:22 >> I have a motion and second.
00:12:23 All in favor of the motion.
00:12:25 Question on the motion.
00:12:25 >> I am going to go ahead and support it.
00:12:30 I am very concerned if you start trying to put two
00:12:32 story homes in there that you are going to run right
00:12:34 into those branches.
00:12:35 But it appears to me that even the newer homes along
00:12:37 there appear to be one-story.
00:12:40 So maybe if you can squeeze one-story homes in there,

00:12:45 you might have to get some variances from the variance
00:12:47 board.
00:12:47 But let's hope you can do it without hurting the tree.
00:12:50 Thank you.
00:12:51 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye.
00:12:53 Opposed, Nay.
00:12:55 >>THE CLERK: Who was the second on that motion?
00:12:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Me.
00:12:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
00:13:02 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott and Miranda
00:13:04 being absent at vote.
00:13:05 Second reading and adoption will be on March 6th
00:13:07 at 9:30 a.m.
00:13:09 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to give a commendation to
00:13:12 the Tampa prep girls soccer team who won the state
00:13:16 championship on Saturday.
00:13:17 They beat the number one team in the state.
00:13:19 So have to get a date and find out when they can come
00:13:22 and receive it.
00:13:23 I have a motion and second.
00:13:24 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
00:13:26 Opposed, Nay.

00:13:27 Anything else coming before council?
00:13:28 >> Move to receive and file.
00:13:31 >> Second.
00:13:31 (Motion carried)
00:13:33 We stand adjourned.
00:13:37 >> Happy Valentine's Day.
00:13:43 >> Yesterday.
00:13:45 (Meeting adjourned at 12:13 a.m.)

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