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Tampa City Council
Thursday, March 13, 2008
5:30 p.m

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17:35:42 [Sounding gavel]
17:35:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We will go ahead and adjourn our
17:35:47 meeting for this evening.
17:35:48 Tampa City Council.
17:35:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You mean call to order.
17:35:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes. We adjourned very quickly.
17:35:58 (Laughter)
17:35:59 Thank you.
17:35:59 I'm sitting in this evening for our chairwoman Glen
17:36:02 Miller.

17:36:02 She couldn't be here with us this evening.
17:36:05 We call this meeting to order.
17:36:08 And we stand for the pledge of allegiance.
17:36:14 Say a few words for us.
17:36:15 >>> This evening we thank you for the privilege to
17:36:18 come before you and say thank you.
17:36:20 Thank you for this day, being with us and for the
17:36:22 wonderful meeting we had this morning.
17:36:26 We thank you again for your wisdom as we went about
17:36:31 the work of the CRA and staff, and we pray for our
17:36:34 nation again, for our men and women who are fighting
17:36:37 in the Middle East.
17:36:38 Protect them, and bring them back home safely to us.
17:36:43 And also for those who protect us here in the state,
17:36:46 our law enforcement officers, firemen and others who
17:36:49 work so hard.
17:36:50 We thank you.
17:36:53 We deliberate for wisdom and insight in the community.
17:36:59 In your name we pray.
17:37:01 Amen.
17:37:03 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
17:37:05 >> Roll call.

17:37:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
17:37:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
17:37:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
17:37:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
17:37:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
17:37:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
17:37:28 Good evening, everybody.
17:37:29 This evening we'll be starting off with the public
17:37:32 hearing on the community development block grant.
17:37:41 We need to open that.
17:37:42 >> So moved.
17:37:42 >> Second.
17:37:43 (Motion carried).
17:37:43 >> We welcome Jim Stefan to the podium.
17:37:47 Jim and Frank will be our master of ceremonies for a
17:37:50 little while.
17:37:51 And for those of you who are here for our rezoning
17:37:54 hearings, they are scheduled to start at six.
17:37:58 I don't think we'll make 6:00 but we'll try to start
17:38:01 as soon thereafter as after we finish the CDBG,
17:38:06 probably closer to 6:15 or 6:30.
17:38:09 Thank you, Jim.

17:38:09 >>JIM STEFAN: I have a handout for City Council.
17:38:14 And you have copies of the handout out front.
17:38:20 But if anybody needs one, if you will raise your hand
17:38:24 I'll try to get you one, if you need one.
17:38:26 Just raise your hand.
17:38:31 What I would like to do is just do a real brief
17:38:35 PowerPoint that will explain the process that we are
17:38:38 going through.
17:38:38 This is the beginning of the process.
17:38:40 And so I want to make sure that everybody here
17:38:43 understands what the process is, and it's basically to
17:38:51 allow the public an opportunity to be heard and into
17:38:54 the CDBG process.
17:38:56 It's not just a community development block grant
17:38:59 which is the 34th year of this program but also to
17:39:02 talk about the emergency shelter grant, the home
17:39:04 investment partnership program, and the housing
17:39:07 opportunity with persons with aids program.
17:39:11 And the handout has some information regarding
17:39:15 activities that were done in the past 34 years and
17:39:19 also gives an idea of the different types of
17:39:21 activities that are eligible under these programs.

17:39:26 This is again the initial stage of the CDBG program.
17:39:34 And it's gone out and communicated through newspapers
17:39:39 and RFDs and over the cable channels and stuff like
17:39:44 that, to get people interested in participating in the
17:39:47 program.
17:39:48 To give you a brief idea of the funding, because that
17:39:51 seems to be the important thing all the time, is that
17:39:56 the community development block grant funding level is
17:39:59 about $3.7 million.
17:40:02 The amount of money that is allowable for public
17:40:04 service grants within that is 15% or about $550,000.
17:40:11 Home partnership program is about $1.9 million.
17:40:18 Emergency shelter grant about 165 and housing
17:40:20 opportunities for persons with aids is about $3.2
17:40:24 million.
17:40:25 And every year, I think council passed about two weeks
17:40:29 ago, every year in addition to that funding, what we
17:40:32 do is we go past the past three years, and we try to
17:40:35 find and see what moneys have not been spent in the
17:40:39 prior years, and we try to move them forward.
17:40:43 So the next thing we see and we discuss the programs,
17:40:47 we will try to have an estimate of how many dollars

17:40:49 from leftover programs from prior years might be
17:40:51 available to increase the amount of money that we have
17:40:54 for programs.
17:41:00 An important way to understand the process is to go
17:41:02 through the calendar.
17:41:04 And we actually started the program with a technical
17:41:08 assistance workshop on February 12th.
17:41:10 That was actually broadcast live over CTTV, and again
17:41:17 today we are having the first kickoff meeting on the
17:41:22 public hearing, and today is also the deadline for
17:41:25 submission of the RFP program for the CDBG program,
17:41:30 and in two weeks we have the deadline for the home RFP
17:41:34 process.
17:41:35 And we'll begin to review those programs as soon as we
17:41:38 get them in through the month of May.
17:41:49 Then following that review process, in June we'll be
17:41:53 coming back to council and telling all the agencies
17:41:57 what the proposed funding programs are and we'll
17:42:02 actually have a second public hearing on or about July
17:42:05 17th.
17:42:07 We will be coming back to City Council for an approval
17:42:09 process around August 7th.

17:42:12 And by statute we have to submit the program to HUD on
17:42:17 August 15th, and the fiscal year starts on October
17:42:21 1st.
17:42:22 So that briefly is the calendar of the process that we
17:42:25 are going through.
17:42:29 As I was saying before, the whole RFP process we are
17:42:35 going through for CDBG and HOME has been advertised on
17:42:41 cable TV, local newspapers and on our web site.
17:42:44 We had a technical assistance program that was not
17:42:46 only live but it's been re-sent out over several
17:42:50 times.
17:42:52 And there were over 70 agencies that actually
17:42:54 participated in technical assistance.
17:42:57 It's getting to be a very well attended thing; the
17:43:03 people are very much interested in it.
17:43:06 Again that technical assistance workshop was on
17:43:10 February 12th, and you can see again the
17:43:12 deadlines.
17:43:15 And we have a committee, and I think I briefed most of
17:43:19 City Council, but I'll be trying to meet with those
17:43:22 who just came back to office in April.
17:43:26 I'll be going over a little bit further about all of

17:43:28 the details of the program.
17:43:31 But we do have an RFP review program which includes
17:43:35 the advisory committee, people from the Planning
17:43:40 Commission and from several different departments
17:43:42 throughout the city.
17:43:42 So it has a very wide range of people who actually
17:43:47 rank the RFP processes.
17:43:55 One of the things that we are going to be talking
17:44:03 about, after I'm finished, the president of the
17:44:08 advisory committee will be talking about the needs and
17:44:10 recommendations, and we'll be providing you a copy of
17:44:12 the initial requests when it comes up.
17:44:18 We normally will be reviewing that stuff and giving
17:44:23 council a preliminary response, as well as the
17:44:25 citizens sometime in June, prior to the second public
17:44:32 hearing in July.
17:44:33 And then we will update that again in November and
17:44:37 give that to City Council and to the advisory
17:44:39 committee.
17:44:41 And the reason for that is that when the budget is
17:44:44 adopted it's not just the CDBG program that will
17:44:48 implement some of those requests but it's the rest of

17:44:50 the city budget will implement some of those.
17:44:55 Unless City Council has any questions of me, I'd like
17:44:58 to introduce the president of the citizens advisory
17:45:02 committee, Frank Roder, and he can start with the
17:45:07 citizens review process.
17:45:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Any questions on the process?
17:45:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Not so much the process.
17:45:15 Just want to make sure, I didn't see any SHIP money in
17:45:20 here.
17:45:21 That's not a part of this?
17:45:22 >>> That's not part of this because that's state --
17:45:26 >> You don't bring that forward?
17:45:28 >> That will be brought through a separate process,
17:45:30 right.
17:45:31 >> We are spending all the money so we don't have to
17:45:34 send any money back?
17:45:36 I want to make sure.
17:45:37 >>> Yes.
17:45:40 >> I know Hillsborough County lost $2.2 million.
17:45:44 So I want to make sure that we are, okay?
17:45:48 >>> Yes, we are.
17:45:49 And we implemented a program of a quarterly review of

17:45:52 the CDBG program, about two years ago, because the
17:45:55 feds told us that they were serious about if you don't
17:45:59 spend your money they are going to take it away, and
17:46:01 we are being very proactive on the CDBG.
17:46:04 And now that they are putting the HOME program under
17:46:09 the same rules, we started that about six months ago
17:46:11 and following the hometown line.
17:46:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In the past there have been
17:46:18 projects that people have requested under the CDBG
17:46:21 process that we funded in other ways because we have
17:46:23 limited CDBG money.
17:46:25 And I know that because of amendment 1 we are going to
17:46:29 have less money in our general fund.
17:46:30 I just wanted to make sure that there weren't projects
17:46:33 that were initially CDBG requests, perhaps from a
17:46:37 prior year, that we are not going to be able to fund
17:46:40 because of the general fund cutbacks to make sure that
17:46:43 maybe they get replaced as a request in the CDBG list
17:46:50 so we don't lose them completely.
17:46:52 Was that clear?
17:46:53 >>> Yes.
17:46:54 The moneys we are talking about when we say the

17:46:56 leftover money, it truly is leftover money.
17:46:59 It might be salary money that isn't completely spent.
17:47:02 It may be a few dollars in the capital projects, or
17:47:05 with an agency that weren't totally spent.
17:47:07 And it's bringing that money forward, to be used for
17:47:11 the programs and submissions that the advisory
17:47:15 committee and the RFP process brings.
17:47:18 So it won't go into the general fund.
17:47:20 It will stay in CDBG and be used for that.
17:47:23 >> That wasn't my question, but I just wanted to make
17:47:26 sure the projects that were originally CDBG requests
17:47:30 brought to us last year or the year before, that we
17:47:32 didn't fund with CDBG that we said we were going to do
17:47:35 out of the general fund, now that we don't have the
17:47:38 general fund dollars, so that these projects don't get
17:47:41 lost completely, that they be perhaps replaced under
17:47:47 requests for CDBG.
17:47:49 >>> Yes.
17:47:50 We continue to do that.
17:47:51 >> Okay.
17:47:52 >> So anything that wasn't approved last year is
17:47:55 re-reviewed.

17:48:00 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a few questions, Jim.
17:48:04 Starting with the CDBG sources at the top of the page
17:48:08 with the figures on it --
17:48:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This is from last year.
17:48:11 >> October.
17:48:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It in the back of your handout.
17:48:22 >>> Okay.
17:48:25 I have it.
17:48:26 >>MARY MULHERN: This is from last year?
17:48:30 >>> This is the current.
17:48:32 >> The current, okay.
17:48:33 I just remembered, you know, I had those questions
17:48:35 about our reappropriating the money from the prior
17:48:42 year, which was on our agenda.
17:48:45 >>> 454.
17:48:49 >> Right.
17:48:50 But I remember it being as low as 690,000.
17:48:54 >> It was 800-some odd thousand.
17:48:57 >> Why is it now --
17:48:59 >>> in addition to the reprogrammed funds, there was
17:49:01 clean-up that was going on in there.
17:49:03 You remember I mentioned that.

17:49:04 There were negatives that some projects overspent,
17:49:07 some projects were spending money, the auditors told
17:49:10 us to charge some of the debt service and stuff like
17:49:16 that, in a different object code than the one that
17:49:19 replaced it so it was moving money from one place to
17:49:23 another.
17:49:23 So that brought up the 454,000 to 800,000-some.
17:49:29 >> I wonder if we could just get a spreadsheet that
17:49:33 shows us where all that money is going.
17:49:36 At least from that appropriation.
17:49:38 Because I wasn't able to really follow it.
17:49:41 So just sometime in the future if we could see that.
17:49:44 >> Of that $800,000 thing?
17:49:47 >>> Right.
17:49:48 And the other 300 that you or whatever that's not
17:49:53 reflected in here.
17:49:55 Where it going.
17:49:56 >>> I would be happy to.
17:49:57 >> Those are my main questions.
17:49:59 But then I had a couple of other questions.
17:50:00 Now, the appropriation for this year is 3 million.
17:50:11 We come out with the 5 million figure, and then --

17:50:18 okay, the CDB, but it's determined that only -- how is
17:50:24 it determined that of that money only 1 million 169
17:50:30 goes towards -- is that the amount that goes toward
17:50:32 the programs that people are applying for now?
17:50:36 The applications that you are getting now?
17:50:39 >>> The applications --
17:50:40 >> What's the total amount that's available for those
17:50:44 projects?
17:50:45 >>> Okay.
17:50:46 If you recall on the slide show for next year, the
17:50:49 amount of money, the public service count which is one
17:50:53 of the two sections of the RFP process, and that's
17:50:58 also 3.7 million number, it approximately $555,000.
17:51:02 >> Okay.
17:51:03 500.
17:51:04 And why is there that cap on that?
17:51:06 >>> It's a federal requirement.
17:51:07 >> That's a percentage, 15%, is that what it was?
17:51:13 >>> Right.
17:51:13 >> So the feds, you can only spend -- you can only
17:51:16 appropriate 15%?
17:51:18 >>> Which stands for public service program.

17:51:21 >> Public service program.
17:51:22 >>> That's the programs that we have with DACO, and --
17:51:29 >> Okay.
17:51:29 So then all the other appropriations, are those also
17:51:36 like federally mandated, here is where this money
17:51:39 should go to?
17:51:40 Or is that discretionary for us for the city to decide
17:51:45 where they want the money to go?
17:51:47 >>> What we attempt to do is as we gather the
17:51:49 information from the needs and recommendations part of
17:51:52 it, there's some capital requests that they usually
17:51:57 have for park-type improvements and
17:52:00 transportation-type improvements, roads, sidewalks,
17:52:04 lighting, those type of programs.
17:52:06 And we tried to fund as many of those types of things
17:52:08 as we can from the citizens request.
17:52:12 And the other parts that we used are for housing
17:52:14 programs to maintain our housing programs and make
17:52:16 sure that we are trying to provide as much affordable
17:52:21 housing as we can.
17:52:22 >> What I'm trying to understand is how that process
17:52:26 is determined, who gets what.

17:52:31 Since this money is coming from the federal
17:52:33 government, you have to spend so much on this or you
17:52:38 have to spend so much on that?
17:52:39 Or is it our discretion where the money is going to
17:52:42 go?
17:52:42 >>> The federal government tells you what kinds of
17:52:46 activities you are able to do, and you have to --
17:52:51 >> Within those categories.
17:52:52 >>> Within those categories.
17:52:54 You have to spend a certain amount of it.
17:52:56 I think it's 80% for low and moderate income
17:52:59 individuals.
17:52:59 >> Okay.
17:53:00 >>> So the benefits test has to be -- has to be kept.
17:53:04 >> I'm sorry, just trying to understand all this.
17:53:07 And then my last question is, at the bottom where you
17:53:10 have got general administration, and housing
17:53:12 administration, where is that money actually going?
17:53:21 Is that for our staff?
17:53:26 >>> It's staff and cost connected with staff.
17:53:29 >> Okay.
17:53:30 So all of that money.

17:53:32 And then you have got it broken down, CDBG, HOME, and
17:53:37 those two other categories.
17:53:38 And so all of this total, I don't know what that comes
17:53:42 to, but 240 million.
17:53:47 200?
17:53:47 Yeah.
17:53:50 2 million 400.
17:53:52 That's all for our staffing.
17:53:56 >>> Now this staffing that you see here provides all
17:54:01 of the staffing for the -- all of the housing programs
17:54:04 that we have.
17:54:04 So that includes the SHIP dollars that we have, any
17:54:08 other federal or state dollars that come in.
17:54:10 >> But it's all city staff.
17:54:12 None of this is done in any of the public service
17:54:15 things.
17:54:15 >>> Right.
17:54:16 >> Thank you.
17:54:17 I appreciate it.
17:54:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All right, good questions.
17:54:21 We have Frank Roder is going to walk us through
17:54:27 different districts.

17:54:29 Frank, thank you for chairing this citizens advisory
17:54:31 committee once again.
17:54:32 >> My pleasure. My name is Frank Roder.
17:54:33 I live at 908 East Louisiana Avenue.
17:54:36 I want you to know the Citizens Advisory Committee has
17:54:38 been working very closely with the budget office, the
17:54:40 community affairs, department of the city, and also
17:54:42 neighborhood relations.
17:54:43 We really formed a partnership, we bounce ideas off
17:54:46 each other.
17:54:47 A few years back it wasn't quite like that but it
17:54:49 really involved to something and I think making a
17:54:52 locality of progress.
17:54:53 What I would like to call your attention to is our
17:54:55 city-wide request.
17:54:57 We got it a little different this time.
17:54:59 We decided to do people issues first and then deal
17:55:02 with community needs.
17:55:02 First one we are talking about is the homeless
17:55:04 outreach.
17:55:05 What we are proposing is basically working with the
17:55:07 homeless coalition to create a community kitchen, and

17:55:10 a community kitchen would serve the homeless being a
17:55:13 one-stop multi-service center operated through
17:55:15 partnership with other service providers, governmental
17:55:17 agencies and faith-based organizations.
17:55:21 Basically with help, to go from homelessness to
17:55:24 permanent housing.
17:55:25 Currently if you are House homeless you have to go
17:55:27 from this place to this service, this place for this
17:55:29 service and this place for this service and a lot of
17:55:32 homeless do not have cars or a way to get around so
17:55:35 it's very difficult and discouraging so we are
17:55:37 proposing a one-stop center where they can get
17:55:39 everything.
17:55:40 Hopefully the services include case management, mental
17:55:43 and substance abuse training, vocational training, job
17:55:47 placement assistance, job services and many other
17:55:49 support they may need.
17:55:52 A community kitchen, public restrooms and showers,
17:55:55 classrooms, a computer lab, medical clinic, office
17:55:58 space for case management professional staff.
17:56:00 I think it's really come a long way to helping the
17:56:03 homeless.

17:56:04 They are currently doing this down in Ft. Lauderdale,
17:56:06 seems to be somewhat successful.
17:56:07 So I think we should look at what Ft. Lauderdale is
17:56:10 doing and maybe duplicate it here.
17:56:12 The second part of our homeless outreach deals with
17:56:17 gay and lesbian youth.
17:56:18 >> I think also that they are getting tax money, too.
17:56:21 They are getting -- I got involved with that.
17:56:30 Not the business tax but some tax that helps them with
17:56:33 their particular program.
17:56:33 I'm very familiar with --
17:56:37 >>> we tried to get it going.
17:56:38 We are looking for answers.
17:56:39 The second part of it is housing for gay and lesbian
17:56:42 youth.
17:56:42 And basically we found out that about 20 to 40% of all
17:56:46 homeless youth identify themselves as either being
17:56:49 gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and basically gay
17:56:56 youth experience a disproportionate rape including the
17:56:56 Tampa Bay area, and there's several reasons for that.
17:56:56 Family conflict is probably the biggest reason.
17:57:02 A child comes out to his family and they are thrown

17:57:05 out of the house.
17:57:05 And if you are going to be gay you are not living in
17:57:08 my house, you are on your own.
17:57:09 Basically, according to one study, 50% of gay teens
17:57:12 experience a negative reaction from their parents when
17:57:14 they came out and 26% were kicked out of their homes.
17:57:18 Another study found one third of these youth are
17:57:20 homeless or in the care of violent physical assault
17:57:23 when they came out, which can lead to youth leaving
17:57:26 the shelter foster home because they feel safer on the
17:57:30 street, unfortunately.
17:57:31 However there's a lot of issues that gay and lesbian
17:57:33 kids face, and I included all of these to think about
17:57:36 that.
17:57:36 Number one is mental health issues.
17:57:38 A lot of times they suffer from depression,
17:57:41 loneliness, psycho manic, withdrawn kind of behaviors,
17:57:45 social problems, delinquency.
17:57:47 Unfortunately, they had a higher rate of substance
17:57:49 abuse, often because of the frustration and loneliness
17:57:53 they feel.
17:57:53 Very often they engage in risky sexual behavior,

17:57:57 basically sex for survival, they do what they have got
17:57:59 to do to survive.
17:58:00 There's also a lot of -- people taking advantage of
17:58:06 them and a lot of them get caught up in juvenile
17:58:09 justice and criminal justice system so we are
17:58:11 proposing housing so they can address and find
17:58:14 supports as they come into adulthood.
17:58:16 Letter C deals with housing for youth out of foster
17:58:20 care.
17:58:21 These kids very often are in the foster system, the
17:58:25 age of 18, sorry, kid, you're on your own.
17:58:28 I know when I was in college and I was 20 or 121 I
17:58:31 could always pick up the phone and call mom and dad
17:58:34 for a little bit of money or support.
17:58:35 These kids don't have that option.
17:58:37 So what we are trying to come up with is a way to help
17:58:39 these kids, some statistics on kids coming out of
17:58:42 foster care, one in four will be incarcerated within
17:58:45 the first few years after they leave the system, one
17:58:48 in five will become homeless sometime after the age of
17:58:50 18, their graduation rate from high school is only 58%
17:58:54 compared to 70-some percent for other kids, less than

17:58:58 3% will earn a college degree by the anal of 25.
17:59:02 Only 38% are employed 12, 18 months after foster care
17:59:06 and one in three suffers emotional disturbances.
17:59:10 And scary, between 40 to 60% of young women become
17:59:14 pregnant within 12-18 months after they leave foster
17:59:16 care.
17:59:17 Very often if these children need to know their
17:59:19 medical histories or those kinds of things, once they
17:59:22 leave the system they can't get access to it and those
17:59:24 kinds of things.
17:59:25 Currently the junior league of Tampa is working on a
17:59:27 nonprofit agency called connected by 25 to prepare
17:59:30 these kids for adulthood and life after foster care
17:59:33 and they also provide kids for making that transition
17:59:37 a little easier.
17:59:38 Another group is already working on that.
17:59:40 The junior league of Tampa working on that.
17:59:42 Our second request deals with Tampa fire department
17:59:45 and Tampa Police Department.
17:59:48 Shannon Edge has been working closely to establish a
17:59:51 program called party.
17:59:51 Basically it stands for police and residence teaching

17:59:55 youth.
17:59:55 Actually of what they do is they have a party in the
17:59:57 parks.
17:59:58 And the police department goes out and Chief Hogue was
18:00:02 actually flipping hamburgers.
18:00:04 It's a chance for kids to see police and fire
18:00:06 department officials in a different light, more as
18:00:09 friends, as part of the community.
18:00:11 They bring all the big trucks, all the sirens, all the
18:00:14 fun stuff the kids like and it's a good way to build a
18:00:17 positive reaction with the kids.
18:00:19 We are proposing to have four of those, one in East
18:00:21 Tampa, West Tampa, north Tampa, and one in South
18:00:24 Tampa, probably down in Port Tampa.
18:00:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Leave to the Shannon to help
18:00:29 organize a party.
18:00:29 >>> You got it.
18:00:33 She was quite excited about it when we started talking
18:00:35 about it.
18:00:36 Really want to promote that.
18:00:38 The third thing we want to do is propose a city-wide
18:00:41 campaign.

18:00:42 We were kind of shocked.
18:00:43 We found out some neighborhoods less than 8% of our
18:00:46 people were recycling.
18:00:47 Less than 8%.
18:00:49 Which is kind of scary.
18:00:50 We also found out the Hillsborough County school
18:00:52 system throws away about 150,000 per day.
18:00:59 However, in meetings with again Shannon has been
18:01:01 taking the lead on this, and we had some meetings, and
18:01:06 talked trying to get the school board on board with it
18:01:08 because to be honest with you, if kids don't see
18:01:12 adults recycling, why do they recycle when they become
18:01:15 adults?
18:01:15 But we are also proposing to offer residents an
18:01:18 incentive to recycle.
18:01:20 One would be to offer reduced rate for those recycle,
18:01:24 to reduce the amount of garbage.
18:01:26 If you put more in a trash can you get a reduced rate.
18:01:31 A recycling campaign, tie this hopefully with the
18:01:34 anti-littering campaign that's currently going on, all
18:01:38 kind of makes sense, pushes us together, involve our
18:01:40 schools in the recycling efforts, again teaching kids

18:01:43 it's the right thing to do and hopefully they will do
18:01:45 it as adults.
18:01:46 Basically, we also found out if you live in apartment
18:01:50 complexes and most condos, there's no recycling at
18:01:52 all.
18:01:53 They don't do those things.
18:01:54 So basically find a way to get them involved in the
18:01:56 recycling effort so they can -- because a lot of
18:02:00 residents are actually driving to drop-off places if
18:02:04 available.
18:02:04 But as far as making it accessible for them it doesn't
18:02:07 happen.
18:02:07 We are also working closely with the clean city
18:02:10 division, and their anti-litter initiative.
18:02:13 We are kind of excited about that.
18:02:14 We are asking the city match a CDBG fund of providing
18:02:19 adequate receptacles to make Tampa a cleaner city.
18:02:25 We got 50 trash receptacle across the city.
18:02:29 First time we had a major thoroughfare.
18:02:31 What we are asking for is 50 of them to put around the
18:02:34 city.
18:02:35 That would cost about $35,000, the trash cans are $700

18:02:39 apiece, and also cover installation and also would
18:02:42 like to have 13-yard rear packer truck which will go
18:02:46 by and pick up the receptacles.
18:02:48 Currently, I guess it has to be done by hand.
18:02:51 When we ordered the first 50 we didn't think we needed
18:02:53 the truck.
18:02:54 But we could definitely use the truck so we are
18:02:56 pushing for that.
18:02:57 So those are our city-wide requests.
18:02:59 At this time I would like to pull it over to anybody
18:03:01 who would like to speak to the city-wide request.
18:03:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mrs. Saul-Sena, I just want to say
18:03:06 it looks like a really ambitious and worthwhile
18:03:08 effort.
18:03:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to compliment you on
18:03:14 the big picture approach that you have taken.
18:03:16 I think these are very thoughtful, smart requests, and
18:03:19 it's impressive to me that the neighborhoods all came
18:03:23 together and claimed consensus.
18:03:25 They are very bold and I think they really improve our
18:03:28 community.
18:03:28 Thank you.

18:03:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Before we -- (applause)
18:03:35 Did you have any specific speakers that you wanted as
18:03:39 related to the city-wide?
18:03:41 >>> I believe we had some people from the homeless
18:03:44 coalition would like to speak about the requests we
18:03:47 represent.
18:03:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Just one question.
18:03:52 In terms of your data here, this is prioritized,
18:03:58 right?
18:03:59 >>> Yes, right.
18:04:00 >> In terms of your data, and particularly here where
18:04:03 you talk about U.S. Department of Health and human
18:04:07 services, address the issue of runaway youth from
18:04:12 575,000 to 1.6 million, it goes on to talk about
18:04:18 lesbian and gay.
18:04:19 What percentage is that in Tampa?
18:04:22 Do we have that in Tampa?
18:04:24 >>> No, we have not at this point.
18:04:25 >> So we don't have any real --
18:04:27 >>> At this point I don't.
18:04:30 Once we decided what we wanted to go I kind of went
18:04:32 with it and I have national statistics.

18:04:35 >>> Reverend Warren Clack, address 12207 Brightwater
18:04:43 Boulevard in Temple Terrace.
18:04:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Did you have an answer to that
18:04:47 question, reverend?
18:04:48 >>> I do indeed. That is the latest statistics are
18:04:50 from last year, from the homeless census of the
18:04:53 Hillsborough coalition of the homeless, shows that
18:04:57 1200 young people, Children and Youth, are
18:05:00 experiencing homelessness on any given day.
18:05:03 At Hillsborough County.
18:05:04 That's Hillsborough County.
18:05:08 And about 9,450 people that we counted on a very rainy
18:05:14 day.
18:05:15 We didn't get everybody.
18:05:19 >>MARY MULHERN: I remember that day.
18:05:22 Actually, a question for you on the topic.
18:05:25 We are always wondering -- no question about it, just
18:05:28 seems very sad that there are all these youth being
18:05:31 thrown out of their homes.
18:05:33 But the other percentage of homeless youth, I'm still
18:05:37 concerned about them, too.
18:05:39 And maybe this is a question for you, Frank.

18:05:44 Is that part of the initiative that's being proposed?
18:05:48 I mean, it's only limited to LGBT youth?
18:05:52 >>> No.
18:05:52 >> You were just identifying one of the problems.
18:05:55 Okay.
18:05:56 Okay.
18:05:56 Then another question.
18:05:58 And maybe I'm just not clear on the process.
18:06:02 But you gave us the outline of all the programs you
18:06:07 are recommending, that the committee is recommending,
18:06:09 right?
18:06:09 But these are -- they are all different groups that
18:06:17 are doing the initiatives, right?
18:06:18 Okay.
18:06:19 So you were just kind of giving up this overview.
18:06:22 But all of these are being -- are separate grants
18:06:25 being applied for.
18:06:27 Okay.
18:06:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Rev., a couple of minutes.
18:06:31 >>> Just a couple of comments here.
18:06:33 One, I just wanted to commend you, and to the group
18:06:36 that you have been leading, for dealing with a very

18:06:39 difficult issue, and one in which there is a great
18:06:42 deal of prejudice, and a certain amount of hatred.
18:06:46 And, really, bringing it to our attention as a
18:06:50 community, and giving us a clear way in which we can
18:06:54 deal with it.
18:06:54 And that is the question of homeless youth that happen
18:06:59 to have been born gay or lesbian, so adopted the
18:07:06 incidence of their being far more likely to wind up
18:07:09 homeless because they have been thrown out of their
18:07:11 homes.
18:07:12 It's sad.
18:07:13 That's very troubling.
18:07:14 But, at the same time, this is a proposal in which
18:07:18 there's something concrete that is being proposed to
18:07:20 do about that.
18:07:21 So we have a group of young people that are actually
18:07:25 more at risk because of the prejudice that we have
18:07:27 within our community and in our society.
18:07:30 And then we have a concrete proposal to do something
18:07:33 about that.
18:07:33 And I want to say as a pastor, as a local pastor, that
18:07:37 I commend that.

18:07:38 I think that is excellent.
18:07:40 Thank you so very much for doing that.
18:07:42 And so I would encourage this body that as you are
18:07:47 looking at all the proposals that are in here, you
18:07:50 will probably get a little bit of flack about it.
18:07:52 Oh, well, that's fine.
18:07:54 Our responsibility as community leaders is to look at
18:07:58 where the greatest needs are.
18:08:00 And then to protect the people that are most
18:08:03 vulnerable.
18:08:03 So I would urge you all to do that in this particular
18:08:06 case.
18:08:10 Thank you.
18:08:10 That's really good.
18:08:12 Remember hope, Hillsborough organization for partisan
18:08:16 quality -- equality, this is one of the things we are
18:08:22 going to have coming up in April and also the question
18:08:24 of homeless youth came up in that group and I am
18:08:26 delighted to say from members of my own congregation.
18:08:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And we are here every Thursday.
18:08:33 We are used to "flack."
18:08:36 Yes, sir.

18:08:38 >>> Rayme Nuckles. I'm with the coalition,
18:08:42 Hillsborough County, 2105 north Nebraska.
18:08:49 Dealing with issues of homelessness.
18:08:51 We want to thank you again and thanks for taking the
18:08:54 lead on this, and really looking in your plan.
18:08:58 That's really what it is all about.
18:09:00 And feeding into the ten year plan, actually one was
18:09:05 part of, and help the community develop, and this is
18:09:10 going to address many of the issues that we have been
18:09:14 advocating for, for at least the past five years,
18:09:17 since I have been the CEO going on six years now.
18:09:20 So it really good to see the city take the lead and
18:09:23 helping us move this agenda forward in our community.
18:09:26 We have over 9,000 people in our community who are
18:09:29 homeless.
18:09:30 And we have greater needs now than what we probably
18:09:33 had in many, many years in this community.
18:09:36 And it's really important for us as a community to
18:09:40 take this initiative, move it forward, and hopefully
18:09:45 eliminate as many possibilities as possible and help
18:09:50 those who are struggling in our community with
18:09:54 opportunities to become self-sufficient, and hopefully

18:09:57 keep them from losing their homes, which we have been
18:10:00 paying quite a lot of mortgage payments for the last
18:10:02 six months, and help them to become sustainable
18:10:09 citizens in our community, that helps the tax base.
18:10:13 So I want to thank you and thanks, Frank, for taking
18:10:15 that leadership role.
18:10:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Nuckles.
18:10:24 Given the downturn in the economy and people losing
18:10:24 their jobs, have you all done any recent numbers or
18:10:27 survey to look at numbers in terms of the
18:10:30 homelessness?
18:10:32 >>> As you are aware, we are required every other year
18:10:34 to do a census by or for the housing urban
18:10:39 development.
18:10:40 However, this year, during the month of January
18:10:43 through March, we are doing a more intensive survey,
18:10:45 which we have never done before.
18:10:47 We brought in a researcher from California and
18:10:50 actually March 27th will be the day that we
18:10:54 actually go out on the streets to gather information
18:10:58 with regard to all these different issues.
18:11:01 Survey is over 21 pages long.

18:11:03 It's the longest survey we have of used.
18:11:06 So we will be able to garner more statistics about
18:11:08 what's going on in our local community.
18:11:12 Our numbers that we have seen through our phone call
18:11:15 have dramatically increased since the beginning of the
18:11:18 year, more specifically starting last summer, and with
18:11:24 our relocation to the new offices, we have -- I mean,
18:11:28 we see people that actually come into our offices
18:11:31 there, which we aren't ever expecting.
18:11:33 We do talk to more than 100 people a week on the
18:11:37 phone, providing case management to them and
18:11:39 connecting them to referral services.
18:11:41 So we hope to have something by the middle of July
18:11:46 with all of that information.
18:11:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And this may be to Mr. Carr.
18:11:55 I know HOPE last year, which Councilwoman Saul-Sena
18:11:59 and I were there at the action that they had -- had a
18:12:03 very large turnout and one of the issues was the
18:12:05 homelessness issue and one of them was trying to
18:12:08 address the identification card.
18:12:10 I was wondering where we are in that process, Mr.
18:12:13 Carr.

18:12:14 Do you recall that?
18:12:16 I think that the clerk was getting involved in that,
18:12:22 pat Frank, on that issue.
18:12:24 Where are we on that particular -- yes.
18:12:26 >>> I don't know.
18:12:30 I have been in contact with Sharon Streeter from HOPE,
18:12:33 and that is something that they continue to advocate
18:12:37 with that issue specifically with Hillsborough County.
18:12:39 I do know that one of the members of the homeless
18:12:42 coalition who called us a week later during the
18:12:46 session is working diligently on that as well.
18:12:48 So we have a number of different things we are working
18:12:50 on.
18:12:51 >> So there hasn't been any movement on that?
18:12:54 That's still out there then?
18:12:55 >>> It's still out there.
18:12:56 >> Because based on the action, it was my
18:13:02 understanding one of the first things to do is get
18:13:05 identification because without any identification, you
18:13:06 know, you can't really get a whole lot of services.
18:13:09 But that's not the process.
18:13:12 So that was a big issue.

18:13:14 You were there.
18:13:15 Mr. Carr was there.
18:13:16 And it's my understanding that was an issue that the
18:13:18 clerk was going to take a look at to see how we can
18:13:22 move that forward.
18:13:23 So you are saying that nothing has been done pretty
18:13:26 much in regards to that.
18:13:27 >>> Nothing has been implemented at this point.
18:13:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Nuckles, in case people are
18:13:36 watching and they want to help you in your
18:13:38 organization, any contact information you want to
18:13:39 share?
18:13:41 >>> Well, as you all know, you helped fund our
18:13:44 advocacy campaign called unexpected faces.
18:13:47 There is a web site called
18:13:51 They can go to that.
18:13:52 It will take them through a campaign about 21
18:13:55 different individuals from Hillsborough County who are
18:13:59 homeless, who have been homeless, and who have
18:14:01 different stories to tell about their homeless issues,
18:14:04 and through that specific web site they can be linked
18:14:07 to our web site at the homeless coalition, and many of

18:14:11 the service providers in the community.
18:14:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you so much.
18:14:13 >>> Thank you for the opportunity for allowing me to
18:14:16 sit in.
18:14:17 Thank you for your support.
18:14:20 >>MARY MULHERN: A couple of questions.
18:14:23 >>> I feel like I am getting grilled again.
18:14:26 [ Laughter ]
18:14:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Friendly grilling.
18:14:29 >> We are giving you an opportunity for advocacy here.
18:14:34 And that was my question.
18:14:35 I know that I talked to you awhile ago about the
18:14:39 community kitchen, which I think is fantastic.
18:14:42 But we are going to help you move forward with this.
18:14:44 And I was wondering, do you have a venue?
18:14:51 Do you have a place committed?
18:14:52 >>> Not yet.
18:14:53 >> Not yet.
18:14:54 Okay.
18:14:54 So that's something --
18:14:56 >>> we are still working on it.
18:14:58 We have identified four different locations.

18:15:00 >> This is a great program.
18:15:01 And part of the reason this is needed is because they
18:15:05 are not allowed -- people aren't allowed to feed the
18:15:08 homeless in public parks anymore.
18:15:11 So they need a place to do that.
18:15:12 >>> The bigger issue you will probably have to help us
18:15:15 with is the neighborhood issue.
18:15:17 And convincing neighborhoods that we have poor
18:15:22 individuals who live in our communities and that's
18:15:24 something we have to deal with as a community.
18:15:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Caetano.
18:15:28 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: At one time in front of sacred
18:15:31 heart church there are always homeless people sleeping
18:15:34 there at night.
18:15:35 Do you know the reason they were moved?
18:15:40 Or you don't want to admit --
18:15:44 >>> yeah, can I pass on that one?
18:15:45 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Okay.
18:15:49 >>> I'd rather talk to you about that separately.
18:15:51 >> I have a question for the other gentleman.
18:15:54 On recycling, I believe Wisconsin has recycling
18:15:58 mandatory.

18:15:59 And I think there's a fine assessed, if you don't
18:16:02 adhere to the rules.
18:16:04 Do you think it would be possible to set up an
18:16:06 ordinance of something like that?
18:16:10 >>> the I don't think the City of Tampa, State of
18:16:14 Florida is ready for it but I would encourage it, to
18:16:16 be honest with you.
18:16:17 It's kind of interesting.
18:16:18 I worked for the Pasco County school system and the
18:16:20 reason I got so involved in recycling is because our
18:16:22 county was involved in the school level for years. In
18:16:25 fact they have an extensive recycling campaign.
18:16:28 And I just kind of shocked when I found out that
18:16:31 Hillsborough County didn't have one.
18:16:32 And I actually directed them to talk to Pasco to see
18:16:35 how Pasco implemented it.
18:16:37 >> Are you talking about our school system?
18:16:38 >>> Our school system does not recycle.
18:16:40 >> They are very great for wasting money.
18:16:42 >>> 150,000 a day.
18:16:46 150,000 a day.
18:16:49 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry, can I ask one more

18:16:51 question?
18:16:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sure.
18:16:52 We don't want to get into these neighborhood --
18:16:55 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want kind of a philosophical
18:16:57 question about where our money is going to.
18:17:00 And when Mr. Caetano brought up the recycling, and it
18:17:04 also brings to mind the idea of having garbage cans on
18:17:07 the street.
18:17:09 And I don't know if we should have to take money out
18:17:12 of the CDBG fund for solid waste pickup and for
18:17:17 recycling.
18:17:18 You know, your funds are really limited.
18:17:21 So I'm wondering if in the city we could maybe look
18:17:25 towards doing these things that are part of what we
18:17:26 are doing.
18:17:27 >>> CDBG, we ask for the world, hope you guys will
18:17:31 know where to grab the funds from.
18:17:34 With the budget situation we realize --
18:17:37 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
18:17:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
18:17:39 We have got nine areas, and perhaps representatives
18:17:42 hopefully from each of those areas.

18:17:45 As folks come up just remember we are limited on time,
18:17:48 but we have your written requests, so don't feel the
18:17:50 need to go through everything that you put in writing.
18:17:53 But if you want to come up and share some of your
18:17:57 community's ideas with us, we look forward to hearing
18:18:01 from them.
18:18:01 >>> Areas 4, 7 and 8 have not proposed any written
18:18:05 proposals.
18:18:05 However, there may be somebody from one of those areas
18:18:08 that would like to present at this time.
18:18:09 But at this time I will turn it over to area number 1.
18:18:13 Anybody here from area number 1?
18:18:15 >> Florence villa, north park, et cetera.
18:18:23 Area 2.
18:18:23 >>> Okay.
18:18:25 Area 2.
18:18:26 >> Palmetto Beach, Ybor City, Belmont Heights.
18:18:31 Okay.
18:18:33 >>> For area 3 I can tell you I'm here.
18:18:36 Southeast Seminole Heights.
18:18:37 I would like to start with ours.
18:18:40 The Malone center is currently located in Giddens

18:18:43 park, a neighborhood park for over 60 years, a very
18:18:46 small park but it's our park, the only park.
18:18:50 Five years ago, the green initiative was put in and
18:18:54 that park was selected as the first one in the city to
18:18:57 be upgraded.
18:18:58 Unfortunately it's now been five years and we are
18:19:00 still waiting for the gazebo that's been promised and
18:19:04 also our interactive water fountain facility that was
18:19:07 promised over five years ago and still not finished.
18:19:09 It's been a labor use, slow process.
18:19:13 We also asked to rebuilt the captain Malone center,
18:19:16 our only neighborhood building that serve it is needs
18:19:19 of our civic association and also the city Parks
18:19:21 Department.
18:19:23 The building is so small that if you put 25 to 30
18:19:26 people in there, it's packed.
18:19:28 That is where our civic association is actually
18:19:30 meeting, and we have to have a standing room only
18:19:33 crowd obviously because we have more than 30 people
18:19:36 show up at a meeting and it's really inadequate to the
18:19:38 neighborhood.
18:19:39 When our park was redesigned we actually set apiece of

18:19:43 land aside for a community center and we are asking
18:19:46 that be built now.
18:19:47 We are ready for it because we really do need it.
18:19:50 The next two requests come out of Seminole height to
18:19:53 deal with calming devices along 12th Street.
18:19:56 Basically from Martin Luther King to Hillsborough.
18:20:00 There has been traffic study after traffic study but
18:20:04 my neighbors call me about speeding on 12th Street and
18:20:07 the amount of traffic.
18:20:08 12th Street does not have any sidewalks.
18:20:10 It goes by Giddens park.
18:20:13 To get there, you take your life in your hands with
18:20:15 the cars coming down.
18:20:16 They said there's not enough right-of-way for
18:20:19 sidewalks so we have to do something to slow traffic
18:20:21 down.
18:20:21 One.
18:20:22 Suggestions we had is install a 4 way stop sign at
18:20:26 12th Street and McBerry, halfway between Osborne and
18:20:29 Hillsborough.
18:20:30 It would cause traffic to slow down a little bit at
18:20:33 that point.

18:20:34 Two years ago we asked for and received a stop sign at
18:20:36 the corner of Chelsea and 12th.
18:20:38 That really did slow down the traffic going from MLK
18:20:41 to Osborne.
18:20:42 Unfortunately speed before they get there and after
18:20:44 they get there but at least they stop in the middle of
18:20:47 it so we are thinking a four way stop sign at McBerry
18:20:50 would help.
18:20:51 The other deals with speeding along Chelsea, again a
18:20:55 very narrow street, built back in the 20s.
18:20:58 It accesses a supermarket and there are no sidewalks.
18:21:02 Again, pedestrians, and kids are there, and it's kind
18:21:05 of a dangerous situation.
18:21:07 So those are our requests for area 3.
18:21:11 Anybody would like to speak to block area 3?
18:21:16 >>> I'll be brief because he covered a lot.
18:21:19 Sherri Genovar, I am the president of the civic
18:21:27 association there.
18:21:30 Something Frank didn't say is that community center is
18:21:32 what we have, and we are a very active neighborhood.
18:21:34 We also have a lot of kids, and that's our recreation
18:21:39 area for them.

18:21:41 There's an after-school program there.
18:21:43 Darn near impossible.
18:21:44 Half of them to are in the building, the other half
18:21:47 a -- across the street at the park.
18:21:51 That traffic swings off Hillsborough at a million
18:21:54 miles an hour.
18:21:55 Coaches are going stop, trying to get people not to
18:21:57 kill the kids.
18:21:58 We asked and asked.
18:21:59 We need a solution.
18:22:00 There's no sidewalk.
18:22:01 The 12th is the way you get to the park.
18:22:04 It's the only northbound route to walk along Nebraska.
18:22:07 So if you live in the neighborhood and you like to get
18:22:09 to the park, that's the way you go.
18:22:11 And it's dangerous.
18:22:12 You must walk in the street.
18:22:15 There's no other choice.
18:22:16 The other thing is the building itself.
18:22:19 When Wayne Papy was still around before he retired, we
18:22:23 made a deal with him because the building was becoming
18:22:26 available and we said, we'll get in there and clean

18:22:28 it, we'll do the labor, but all we want to do is be
18:22:31 able to use it.
18:22:32 So the city provided the paint.
18:22:34 We spent, I don't know, a month in there cleaning,
18:22:37 painting, putting some designs in there, cleaning the
18:22:41 bathrooms.
18:22:41 One of the things we asked for was don't leave sinks
18:22:46 that are hair than this, paper towel dispensers that
18:22:50 maybe aren't rusty and sharp.
18:22:52 That was five years ago.
18:22:53 I have never seen a one.
18:22:55 It's embarrassing.
18:22:56 And we try to bring as many people in there as
18:22:59 possible because we like them to see the way we have
18:23:01 to be.
18:23:01 And I think the city should pay more attention to it.
18:23:04 I'm sorry.
18:23:05 So I don't know if you are going to build us a
18:23:07 building.
18:23:07 I would like you to.
18:23:08 We would certainly use it and the kids in the
18:23:10 neighborhood need it, tremendously.

18:23:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
18:23:20 >>> Area 4. That would be South Seminole Heights.
18:23:21 Wellswood. Riverside Heights. River Bend.
18:23:35 Area 5.
18:23:38 >> Wes Weisenberger from 1919 1/2 North Bay Street.
18:23:44 Over in district 5, which of course goes between 275
18:23:48 and Kennedy, Armenia and Howard over to Willow, the
18:23:55 main issue that I would like to speak on is the
18:23:58 flooding that takes place, because of the storm drains
18:24:01 and everything else.
18:24:03 The issue is, there are a lot of new construction
18:24:05 coming on.
18:24:06 There's new developers coming in.
18:24:08 Yes, it's a good test base when you put a 5 or $6
18:24:13 million project into the community.
18:24:14 I wish them well.
18:24:16 However, we would like them to pay their share of the
18:24:22 storm drain, the sewage, the impact fees should be
18:24:25 increased for these people.
18:24:26 Not just on the local tax people.
18:24:28 But if you come in with a project, you are bringing in
18:24:32 thousands of people, you are stacking the buildings

18:24:36 up, the water is going somewhere.
18:24:37 The pipes over there are falling apart.
18:24:41 It's well known that things are deteriorating, instead
18:24:45 of the city paying for this.
18:24:46 We suggest that therein should be no more large
18:24:49 projects, no more large groups stacking up, unless
18:24:56 they pay their fair share for the development of
18:25:00 repairing these storm drains.
18:25:02 The sewer drains.
18:25:04 Everything else that we have asked for in our area is
18:25:07 explained.
18:25:10 Just let them pay their fair share.
18:25:12 Thank you.
18:25:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, sir.
18:25:15 Area 6.
18:25:21 Northeast McFarland, old West Tampa and Ridgewood
18:25:26 river.
18:25:27 >>> My name is Janice Williams.
18:25:29 I'm here on behalf of chairperson Jimmy Gray who could
18:25:32 not be here tonight.
18:25:33 I'm on the CDBG committee.
18:25:35 And as you can see in the packet, Mr. Anthony Priato

18:25:41 is requesting sidewalk completion, and also traffic
18:25:45 calming.
18:25:47 I also have an addendum.
18:25:51 Is this the time that I would give you -- okay.
18:25:54 There's an additional request for a larger community
18:25:57 center at Ray park, that is where we have our
18:26:02 neighborhood association meetings on a monthly basis.
18:26:04 The building itself has was erected in 1965 and we
18:26:09 feel because of the larger population and increased
18:26:12 activities going on at the center that it really needs
18:26:14 to be enlarged to meet the needs of the growing
18:26:17 population, and all of the activities.
18:26:20 Obviously safe for children and wonderful place for
18:26:23 our seniors to go, to participate in activities.
18:26:29 I have a request from Michael Randolph, economic
18:26:32 development director of the West Tampa Community
18:26:36 Development Corporation.
18:26:38 And he has three requests.
18:26:40 The first is funding for the West Tampa community
18:26:43 development employment and business development
18:26:45 center.
18:26:49 The other is certification for the West Tampa

18:26:50 Community Development Corporation to serve as a
18:26:54 community housing development organization.
18:26:59 And the third request is certification of the West
18:27:01 Tampa Community Development Corporation as an
18:27:04 enterprise zone corporation to seek funding for
18:27:09 eligible enterprise zone programs.
18:27:12 I don't know if there's anybody else here from block 6
18:27:14 that might want to speak.
18:27:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you very much.
18:27:18 I appreciate it.
18:27:20 Mr. Caetano.
18:27:24 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: (off microphone)
18:27:31 The gentleman that just talked about building the
18:27:33 large buildings, and the drainage, are they required
18:27:36 to put in the required drainage to get rid of the
18:27:40 water that's coming off of their premises?
18:27:44 >>> Cindy Miller, director of growth management
18:27:48 services.
18:27:49 I would have to defer to stormwater department because
18:27:51 it does vary as to which particular area, and whether
18:27:54 it is identified on the mapping that stormwater
18:27:59 department has done, as to what improvements are

18:28:01 necessary for each development.
18:28:02 So my apologies.
18:28:05 I will be glad to get together with them.
18:28:07 >> And perhaps get that gentleman's name.
18:28:09 So it would seem that it would be a practical thing to
18:28:12 do, but maybe not --
18:28:16 >>> I'll get in touch.
18:28:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Caetano, generally speaking the
18:28:21 SWFWMD has standard requirements for all the counties
18:28:24 including the City of Tampa.
18:28:25 I don't know, it's very technical but it's like they
18:28:28 are required tooled hold their first half inch of
18:28:31 rainstorm and they do it with either swales or
18:28:34 depending on the project underground, that sort of
18:28:36 thing.
18:28:37 That is the formal requirement.
18:28:39 >>> Since we are having our zoning meeting tonight we
18:28:44 have a little category here called "stormwater."
18:28:47 When someone applies for rezoning to build a big
18:28:52 building in West Tampa, and our stormwater department
18:28:57 either says -- recommends it or not.
18:29:03 So we do have some responsibility.

18:29:11 For stormwater, for approving.
18:29:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My question is more of a process
18:29:16 question.
18:29:16 That is, on the additional recommendation or request,
18:29:20 how is that handled?
18:29:21 Does that generally go through the advisory committee?
18:29:31 >>JIM STEFAN: Budget officer.
18:29:32 We will be adding them to the list.
18:29:36 >> So to the advisory committee then, you all take
18:29:38 them up.
18:29:39 Okay.
18:29:40 And I guess you will be addressing all of the issues,
18:29:45 like funding for the West Tampa convention center --
18:29:48 development, business center?
18:29:51 >>> Next week we will be meeting with every department
18:29:53 and be dividing up the needs and recommendations of
18:29:57 each department for them to respond to.
18:29:59 >> And look at it and come back then.
18:30:01 >> Yes, sir.
18:30:02 >> Thank you.
18:30:06 >>> Then we will get the results back in June and then
18:30:09 come back.

18:30:10 Area 7.
18:30:12 Area 8.
18:30:16 And last but not least, area 9.
18:30:22 Thank you, council.
18:30:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Stefan, anything to add?
18:30:31 And you will be back to us.
18:30:32 Do we have a date?
18:30:39 >>> We have attentive date of July 17th but we
18:30:42 will probably be talking with council before that.
18:30:44 >> And if anybody is watching us, if they have any
18:30:47 questions, they can get in touch with your office.
18:30:49 >>> Yes.
18:30:49 >> Thank you very much.
18:30:52 I'll entertain a motion to close.
18:30:54 >>> So moved.
18:30:55 >> Second.
18:30:56 (Motion carried).
18:30:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All right.
18:31:01 We move on to our zoning hearings.
18:31:12 As people come up.
18:31:13 Thank you for coming.
18:31:14 Thank you for your hard work, staff, the neighborhood,

18:31:16 the community.
18:31:16 We appreciate it greatly.
18:31:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to say that the level
18:31:36 of participation and the city-wide look by these
18:31:44 communities at what their needs are has never been
18:31:47 better.
18:31:47 It's really great.
18:31:48 It used to be just my also piece of sidewalk, and now
18:31:51 it's really overarching issues for the community and I
18:31:54 think it's a real impressive growth in the program,
18:31:59 and communication is better than it's ever been.
18:32:03 It's a real improvement.
18:32:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I remember five years ago all heck
18:32:09 broke loose and we have come a long way, as a process
18:32:12 and as a community.
18:32:13 With the limited amount of money we have to deal with,
18:32:16 that hopefully we deal with it fairly.
18:32:18 Mr. Shelby.
18:32:20 >>
18:32:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have lost the quorum,
18:32:23 Mr. Chairman.
18:32:24 I would have to ask you to reconvene.

18:32:30 >> We need one more council member.
18:32:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We'll take a few-minute break until
18:32:36 we get a quorum back.
18:32:38 Oh, we got a quorum coming back.
18:32:41 I didn't catch it either.
18:32:48 Let's let everybody get situated.
18:32:54 Okay, Sandy.
18:33:10 Roll call, please.
18:33:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
18:33:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
18:33:17 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
18:33:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
18:33:21 We will now reconvene our zoning meeting.
18:33:24 >>> Good evening.
18:33:29 I would like to clear up the agenda at this time.
18:33:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, ma'am.
18:33:35 >>> Item number 4 and item number 3.
18:33:41 They run simultaneous.
18:33:43 The petitioner is requesting a continuance to July
18:33:45 17th.
18:33:47 I want to bring to council's attention that with our

18:33:49 new procedures we have a 180-day process time frame.
18:33:54 If they exceed that, they have to request special
18:33:58 permission from council in order to have that
18:34:00 extended.
18:34:02 They are now at the 240-day mark.
18:34:04 And they do request another continuance.
18:34:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What?
18:34:12 >> Three quarters of a year.
18:34:13 240 days.
18:34:15 Mrs. Saul-Sena?
18:34:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think what I would like to do for
18:34:18 starters, and if there's anyone in the public to weigh
18:34:23 in on this, but I would like to open it.
18:34:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And we'll do that.
18:34:28 Mr. Shelby, before we hear from the public, what is
18:34:30 the standard, or if you want to look for the standard
18:34:32 in terms of this vote that we would have to take.
18:34:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It would be under section 27-393.
18:34:41 It reads as follows: City Council shall approve or
18:34:43 deny an application for rezoning within 180 days of
18:34:47 the applicant submitting their application to the
18:34:50 zoning administrator.

18:34:54 Council may extend this period a maximum of 30 days.
18:34:58 Further extension of time may be granted by City
18:35:00 Council only upon finding of extenuating
18:35:04 circumstances.
18:35:08 And this being as long as it has and as long as it's
18:35:12 continued if council does find the extenuating
18:35:14 circumstances, I would recommend that there be a
18:35:18 provision, at least that the parties involved are
18:35:22 renoticed, or follow the notice requirements.
18:35:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let's hear from petitioner first
18:35:27 and then see if there's any members of the pun that
18:35:30 want to speak to the request for continuance.
18:35:31 Petitioner, we are just speaking to your extenuating
18:35:35 circumstances in regard to the elongated time.
18:35:38 >>> Certainly.
18:35:39 My name is Dillon Alderman, I'm representing the owner
18:35:43 of the project.
18:35:46 This is a very complex project, it involves the
18:35:51 historic commission as well as multiple parcels of
18:35:56 land.
18:35:56 A large component has been the request for closing the
18:36:00 11th Avenue right-of-way.

18:36:03 In order to do that we have had to make arrangements
18:36:06 with the property adjoining us to the north, which
18:36:09 abuts the right-of-way.
18:36:11 When we came to you the first time, requesting a
18:36:14 continuance, just for clarity, at that time we had
18:36:23 just worked through the corporation to speak to the
18:36:26 right people, for permission to get a cross-access
18:36:34 agreement for that parcel.
18:36:35 In the interim we have been negotiating with them to
18:36:38 resolve the issues about who is -- has maintenance,
18:36:43 liability and so forth.
18:36:50 Clark has shown interest in moving with the project.
18:36:53 Judith the last four months or so, they have been
18:36:55 negotiating with our attorney back and forth, and
18:36:57 resolving this issue.
18:37:03 Yesterday they gave us notice that they have looked at
18:37:05 our second submittal to them on a proposal for that
18:37:09 agreement, and they are beginning a review on that
18:37:12 second round.
18:37:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is there anything else other than
18:37:16 that general --
18:37:18 >>> that's the main sticking point.

18:37:19 The reason we are looking for a longer extension for
18:37:22 this is we have already got approval through the ARC
18:37:28 for this project.
18:37:28 And through the negotiations that there's some change
18:37:31 that might affect the site plan, we'll have to revisit
18:37:35 and we'll have a 45-day lead time on that.
18:37:38 So to preserve the process and keep it going forward,
18:37:42 we are just looking for this window.
18:37:44 And we looked at every horrible scenario which could
18:37:47 come up that might delay it, and think we will
18:37:50 definitely be able to resolve the problem by July
18:37:54 7th.
18:37:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Any questions?
18:37:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
18:37:58 This is I believe the Gary historic school.
18:38:00 >>> Yes, ma'am.
18:38:01 >> Is the building secure while you go through this
18:38:04 process?
18:38:04 I mean, you don't have any holes in the roof?
18:38:07 >>> Well, I can't profess the conditions today.
18:38:17 The owner has put a great deal of labor into that
18:38:20 building on getting it cleaned up and getting it ready

18:38:23 for preservation.
18:38:25 He's looking to get this project approved, obviously
18:38:30 tough to secure loans for doing the work.
18:38:33 But I do know he's put significant money into getting
18:38:36 that building prepped and ready for this project.
18:38:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is there anybody here from the
18:38:42 community that would like to speak on the continuance,
18:38:45 on the request for continuance?
18:38:46 Seeing none, I'll entertain a motion to --
18:38:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My motion would be to grant this
18:38:54 and this school is very significant.
18:38:55 I'm thrilled somebody has come forward to invest in
18:38:57 this preservation and reuse.
18:38:59 And there's no one from the neighborhood with any
18:39:01 objection.
18:39:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And do you incorporate his
18:39:04 explanation as the extenuating circumstances?
18:39:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
18:39:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We have a motion and a second to
18:39:10 continue to July 17th.
18:39:13 Mr. Shelby.
18:39:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If council has any concern, there's

18:39:17 nobody from the public here today.
18:39:19 Do you know the last time that notice went out to the
18:39:21 community regarding this hearing?
18:39:23 >>> It was for our initial 280 days.
18:39:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Would you have any objection to
18:39:31 renoticing and reposting?
18:39:32 >>> We do not.
18:39:33 >> So you will comply with that voluntarily?
18:39:36 >> Yes, for a 30-day notice we can comply with W that.
18:39:42 >> And posting.
18:39:43 Thank you.
18:39:44 We have a motion and second to continue to July
18:39:46 17th.
18:39:47 Any more comment?
18:39:48 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
18:39:49 Any opposed?
18:39:54 Motion passed.
18:39:55 >>> On item number 3 and number 4.
18:39:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 3 and 4.
18:40:00 >>> Item 5 I requested this be removed from the
18:40:03 agenda.
18:40:03 This item has been withdrawn.

18:40:04 >> So moved.
18:40:05 >> Second.
18:40:06 (Motion carried).
18:40:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion and second to strike item 5.
18:40:11 Motion passes.
18:40:15 >>JILL FINNEY: Number 9 I request be removed from the
18:40:18 agenda.
18:40:18 It has been withdrawn.
18:40:20 >> So moved.
18:40:20 >> Second.
18:40:21 (Motion carried).
18:40:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion passes.
18:40:23 >>JILL FINNEY: Item number 10 and item number 12.
18:40:26 Goes together.
18:40:27 They should run concurrent.
18:40:28 It's a vacating and rezoning.
18:40:30 And request is it be continued out to March 27th.
18:40:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Any time issues or anything else?
18:40:40 All right.
18:40:52 All right.
18:40:52 Motion to open number 10 anybody?
18:40:55 (Motion carried)

18:40:56 All right.
18:40:57 Is there anybody here from the public that would like
18:40:59 to speak about the request to continue item number 10
18:41:04 and 12 to March 7th?
18:41:06 Seeing none --
18:41:08 >> So moved to continue to March 27th, '08 at 6
18:41:11 o'clock p.m. 10 and 12.
18:41:11 >> And I think staff has no objection.
18:41:16 There's a motion to continue 10 and 12 to March
18:41:21 27th, 6 p.m.
18:41:22 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
18:41:24 Any opposed?
18:41:26 So carried.
18:41:27 Okay.
18:41:27 >>JILL FINNEY: Item number 11 we request that this
18:41:30 item be continued to April 24th at 6 p.m.
18:41:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This is a continued public hearing.
18:41:37 This I guess is the second continuance.
18:41:39 Okay.
18:41:40 Any staff -- staff is in agreement with April 24?
18:41:45 >>> Yes.
18:41:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Does anybody wish to speak to the

18:41:48 continuance of item 11 to April 24?
18:41:53 >> So moved.
18:41:53 >> Second.
18:41:54 (Motion carried).
18:41:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's carried.
18:42:04 All right.
18:42:04 We will go back to the beginning starting with item 2.
18:42:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's a continued public hearing.
18:42:14 Would you wish to swear in the witnesses for this
18:42:15 evening's public hearings?
18:42:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
18:42:18 Madam clerk.
18:42:19 Everybody that's going to speak or testify this
18:42:21 evening on items -- on any of the items that are left,
18:42:25 items 2, 6, 7, or 8, please rise and raise your right
18:42:32 hand.
18:42:34 (Oath administered by Clerk).
18:42:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
18:42:40 Mr. Shelby.
18:42:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY:... in City Council's office be filed
18:42:52 in the record at this time, please.
18:42:53 >> So moved.

18:42:53 >> Second.
18:42:54 (Motion carried).
18:42:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Second, council, if you have had any
18:42:57 ex parte communications please disclose the sum and
18:42:59 sum stance with whom it occurred prior to the vote and
18:43:02 finally, ladies and gentlemen, there is a sign-up that
18:43:07 you do sign in.
18:43:08 And if you would, please, when you state your name,
18:43:10 reaffirm for the record that you have been sworn.
18:43:12 Thank you.
18:43:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
18:43:19 Abbye, item 2 as I recall is a continued public
18:43:21 hearing.
18:43:22 We had quite a long discussion about it.
18:43:24 I think there were some technical and legal issues
18:43:26 that came up.
18:43:27 And staff and legal recommended that we continue it to
18:43:30 clarify some of those issues.
18:43:34 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes, that's correct.
18:43:36 Abbye Feeley, Land Development Coordination.
18:43:38 I have been sworn.
18:43:39 I provided you with a staff report, aerial and zoning

18:43:43 atlas for the case.
18:43:44 The staff report has not been revised because the
18:43:46 issue that was the reason for the continuance on this
18:43:51 case or legal issues related to the agreement for the
18:43:54 property.
18:43:55 I wanted to just review council had directed the
18:44:01 petitioner to review the sales agreement with the
18:44:05 city's legal and real estate departments, and pursuant
18:44:09 to correspondence submitted by the petitioner, Mr.
18:44:13 Grandoff, and further confirmed by Cindy Miller, the
18:44:17 director of the department of growth management and
18:44:18 development services. She came before you on February
18:44:21 7th to discuss this issue.
18:44:23 What had happened was, after the city did collect the
18:44:28 applicable bond to release -- release the reverter and
18:44:32 sales agreement for the property and City Council did
18:44:34 approve that amended sales agreement, and it was
18:44:40 executed by the mayor.
18:44:41 And this is for the piece of property that is being
18:44:43 petitioned for a special use, was previously owned by
18:44:47 the city, and was in that sales agreement talked about
18:44:53 having that property being developed as a

18:44:55 single-family house.
18:44:56 The property was sold before the two years to a
18:45:00 different owner, and then the city -- the bond was
18:45:07 given to the city, and the sales agreement was
18:45:09 amended.
18:45:10 So that single-family home did go away.
18:45:16 >> Any other issues?
18:45:18 And as far as the staff recommendations at this point,
18:45:21 run through those real quick.
18:45:23 >> There was one finding of inconsistency from
18:45:30 transportation related to the easement.
18:45:33 And I do have some site plans.
18:45:38 I can bring them up to you.
18:45:40 Way that they have the parking actually functioning,
18:45:42 and is functioning in the public right-of-way.
18:45:45 On the alley.
18:45:46 So we need to issue an easement for the traversing of
18:45:51 that property by -- I'm sorry.
18:45:57 >> So urban design I guess is still inconsistent?
18:46:03 >>> Yes.
18:46:04 Urban design, and Nicole, I don't believe, is with us
18:46:08 this evening but it's related to the buffering of that

18:46:11 property.
18:46:12 >> I saw Wilson Stair come in.
18:46:16 >>> Yes.
18:46:18 I don't know that he's familiar with this case.
18:46:22 It's been out there for so long.
18:46:38 >>> was there language in there it had to be approved
18:46:42 by the City Council?
18:46:43 >>> I don't believe so.
18:46:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't have, and maybe Mr. Grandoff
18:46:47 can clarify this, or Ms. Cole with regard to the
18:46:50 documents that were involved.
18:46:51 I believe something did ultimately come before City
18:46:53 Council.
18:46:54 Ms. Cole?
18:46:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And Ms. Miller came and reported to
18:46:58 us about the --
18:46:59 >> And I do have a copy of the transcript.
18:47:01 I have a copy of the transcript from Ms. Miller's
18:47:04 presentation, if you would like to see that as well,
18:47:06 because it was from February 7th.
18:47:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Caetano, remember Mrs. Miller
18:47:12 came during council meeting and explained sort of what

18:47:14 happened and how the process works, so when the city
18:47:18 sells a lot -- remember that?
18:47:20 Maybe?
18:47:20 Maybe not.
18:47:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, the reason that council may
18:47:24 not necessarily recall is because there were not
18:47:29 necessarily links because we did not want that to
18:47:31 effect the rezoning.
18:47:33 So it was talked more in the abstract.
18:47:37 But obviously now that you are here there is
18:47:39 documentation to refresh your recollection so that you
18:47:41 have the degree of comfort knowing the situation, to
18:47:44 go forward.
18:47:48 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: (off microphone).
18:47:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let's go ahead and hear from
18:47:53 petitioner.
18:47:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Are we going to go forward?
18:48:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Grandoff, as a matter of
18:48:03 process, how much time do you think you need to start
18:48:05 off with?
18:48:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is continued.
18:48:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have already been through the

18:48:10 whole -- I believe we were almost -- I don't remember
18:48:13 if the petitioner had rebuttal.
18:48:18 I don't know if every neighborhood person had spoken.
18:48:23 But I would like to not go back to point A.
18:48:26 I would like to start where we left off.
18:48:28 Maybe the clerk has --
18:48:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Saul-Sena is 100% correct.
18:48:33 I think under the rules those that had spoken in the
18:48:36 past cannot speak today.
18:48:37 Any subject matter that was spoken to in the past is
18:48:40 not permissible today.
18:48:42 That's a moot question.
18:48:43 That's already in the record.
18:48:44 What you may allow, Mr. Chairman, under your guidance,
18:48:47 you have a right to do, to set a standard by giving a
18:48:50 certain amount to the petitioner, or to -- and I mean
18:48:56 a small amount, 3 to 5 minutes and say, this is it.
18:49:02 I'm not here to pass judgment on what some other
18:49:05 council did in the past, although I don't agree that
18:49:07 they should continue it in the future, and I'll speak
18:49:10 to that next Thursday.
18:49:11 But as Ms. Saul-Sena, I heard enough in this case that

18:49:18 I can tell you inch by inch what that building was,
18:49:21 what it was intended to do, and what it might do, and
18:49:24 where it's at, and the location, the size of the lot,
18:49:27 I can tell you the back, I can tell you where there's
18:49:29 a little bush, I can tell you who the neighbor is, I
18:49:32 can tell you the chain link fence, I can tell you the
18:49:34 weeds are high, I can tell you everything because we
18:49:36 heard it.
18:49:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
18:49:38 Ms. Mulhern, on process.
18:49:40 >>MARY MULHERN: Mr. Miranda, you knew all that before
18:49:42 we even heard about it, though.
18:49:45 [ Laughter ]
18:49:47 I just need to refresh my memory very quickly.
18:49:51 What happened was, the reason we continued this was in
18:49:54 order to find out about the legal status of the sale
18:49:57 prior to -- is that what I remember we had?
18:50:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: For the sake of the record, in this
18:50:07 particular hearing, I believe it's necessary for
18:50:10 council to take the evidence of the fact that that
18:50:13 issue has been resolved because of what people did
18:50:16 during the period of public comment initially was to

18:50:19 raise that --
18:50:22 >> As a point.
18:50:23 >> Right.
18:50:23 >> Mr. Grandoff, I would like to give you a few
18:50:26 minutes in case you have some additional information,
18:50:29 perhaps rebuttal from where we were last time, and
18:50:32 then we'll hear --
18:50:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would rather suggest what we do
18:50:40 is hear from anybody in the public who didn't speak at
18:50:42 the hearing and then have Mr. Grandoff do it.
18:50:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think that's a good idea.
18:50:48 That's probably the fairest way.
18:50:49 Is there anybody here tonight to speak to that issue
18:50:52 that did not speak previously?
18:50:54 Okay.
18:50:55 Seeing none, Mr. Grandoff, rebuttal.
18:50:58 Just a couple minutes.
18:50:59 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Thank you for your time.
18:51:01 My name is John Grandoff, address suite 3700 Bank of
18:51:04 America Plaza.
18:51:06 And I represent Jacord partnership.
18:51:12 Mrs. Saul-Sena, I have gone through my note, and I had

18:51:15 rebuttal already.
18:51:17 And then the issue came up as to the title of the
18:51:19 property.
18:51:20 Let me cut to the chase on that.
18:51:22 I filed a letter with Julia's office on January 29. I
18:51:27 copied you on it.
18:51:28 In summary, the land agreement provided that if the
18:51:31 property was sold within two years of the previous
18:51:34 sale, the city was entitled to liquidated damages of
18:51:41 15,000 which was already on deposit with the clerk.
18:51:43 That occurred and the city was able to put that into
18:51:46 the general fund and that's the essence of my January
18:51:49 29 letter.
18:51:50 That issue has been put to rest.
18:51:51 On the three issues that Abbye just spoke about on the
18:51:54 inconsistency with, I believe, landscaping, we are
18:51:58 open to provide either a wall, or a wood fence, vine,
18:52:04 whatever Mr. and Mrs. Tokley prefer.
18:52:06 They live next door.
18:52:07 The other issues she brought up is the easement over
18:52:12 the property to assist in the parking through the
18:52:14 alley.

18:52:17 We are certainly agreeable to doing that.
18:52:18 The site plan would have to be revised before we can
18:52:22 have first reading on that so there cannot be first
18:52:24 reading on the ordinance this evening.
18:52:27 That's where we are.
18:52:28 I will only add to you a couple of things.
18:52:46 We can revise it between first and second reading.
18:52:49 This property is across the street from the armory.
18:52:51 Mr. and Mrs. Colvin are proposed tenants to operate
18:52:55 a coffee shop in this building.
18:52:57 You have heard from the Colvins at that hearing.
18:52:59 This is an excellent redevelopment plan.
18:53:01 They simply need parking as a special use 2 approving
18:53:05 on this lot on Carmen street.
18:53:08 I have nothing further to add.
18:53:09 If you have any questions or want me to refresh your
18:53:12 recollection on anything with photographs or plat line
18:53:17 I would be glad to do that.
18:53:18 I request your approval.
18:53:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
18:53:21 Mr. Shelby, anything?
18:53:22 Anything further from staff?

18:53:24 Any questions from council?
18:53:25 Entertain a motion to close.
18:53:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
18:53:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
18:53:30 (Motion carried).
18:53:34 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Move approval.
18:53:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Caetano has the floor.
18:53:42 Is there second on approval?
18:53:43 There's a motion from Mr. Caetano to approve this.
18:53:46 Is there a second?
18:53:49 Hearing none we'll entertain another motion.
18:53:52 Mrs. Saul-Sena.
18:53:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move for denial
18:53:55 based on compatibility and based on -- I would like a
18:54:03 little help with the citation.
18:54:11 >> Staff report.
18:54:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to site the staff
18:54:15 report and the waivers requested but also site the
18:54:17 fact this is an intrusion of commercial into a street
18:54:20 with single-family residential.
18:54:21 And I don't know the number of that portion of the
18:54:24 code.

18:54:27 Mr. Shelby, if you can help me out.
18:54:32 Ms. Cole, could you help me out?
18:54:33 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
18:54:34 What I hear the concerns are is that it's not
18:54:37 compatible, and it doesn't comply with the
18:54:39 requirements for 27-246-J.
18:54:45 As indicated by the transportation.
18:54:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Mulhern, you had a comment or
18:54:57 question on this.
18:54:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I was just going to refer Ms.
18:55:00 Saul-Sena to the waivers requested, one and two,
18:55:04 waiver for access of commercial traffic onto an alley,
18:55:08 and, two, a waiver for the use of a six-foot wood
18:55:15 fence with vine.
18:55:16 Actually they may have addressed that but that first
18:55:18 waiver they still need the access onto an alley.
18:55:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mrs. Saul-Sena is the maker of the
18:55:25 motion, Mr. Scott the seconder.
18:55:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I can add a little more testimony,
18:55:31 and that is we heard from a number of residents up the
18:55:34 street that the character of this street is
18:55:36 single-family residential, and this proposed request

18:55:40 would change the character of the street by
18:55:42 introducing a commercial use at parking lots into what
18:55:46 is a single-family residential neighborhood street,
18:55:51 and our comp plan speaks to the necessity to create
18:55:55 compatible land uses.
18:55:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
18:56:00 Council, anything else?
18:56:01 Hearing none we have a motion and second to deny.
18:56:03 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
18:56:05 Any opposed?
18:56:05 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Aye.
18:56:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion passes 6 to 1.
18:56:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 5 to 1.
18:56:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 5 to 1.
18:56:19 Thank you.
18:56:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open public hearing number
18:56:34 6.
18:56:34 (Motion carried).
18:56:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Number 6 is open.
18:56:39 >>JILL FINNEY: Land Development Coordination.
18:56:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Hold on one second.
18:56:45 Number 5 was withdrawn.

18:56:47 We had a motion and second to withdraw number 5.
18:56:51 Number 6.
18:56:52 Go ahead.
18:56:54 >>JILL FINNEY: Land Development Coordination.
18:56:55 I have been sworn.
18:56:56 We are hear for petition Z 08-14.
18:57:01 Located at 8710, 8712 and 8716 north orange place
18:57:08 going from RS-50 residential single-family to a PD
18:57:11 planned development with the use of daycare.
18:57:14 The petitioner is proposing to rezone the property to
18:57:16 allow for a daycare school uses on-site.
18:57:19 The half acre site is surrounded by single-family and
18:57:22 multifamily uses to the north, west, and a church
18:57:25 located to the east of the site.
18:57:26 There is currently one structure which will remain in
18:57:30 two proposed structures which will be used as a
18:57:35 classroom.
18:57:36 PD structures are as follows.
18:57:38 To the east 72 feet from. The south 92 feet.
18:57:41 And the west 45 feet.
18:57:43 The maximum building height is proposed at 25 feet.
18:57:46 The required number of parking spaces is 13, and 13

18:57:50 spaces are being provided.
18:57:52 Building elevations have been submitted.
18:58:07 Here is a zoning map of the local area.
18:58:09 The subject property in the immediate area is
18:58:11 predominantly RS-50, with multifamily use as round the
18:58:16 surrounding block.
18:58:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: At the top of the map it looks like
18:58:20 Busch Boulevard?
18:58:21 Just to orient us?
18:58:22 >>> Yes.
18:58:30 Here is an aerial of the area.
18:58:32 You have 46th street to the east.
18:58:36 Busch Boulevard you saw to the north.
18:58:44 There is a photo of the site.
18:58:46 This is the existing structure.
18:58:53 I will move it over a little bit.
18:58:55 This is the proposed area for the structure.
18:58:57 Moving further north.
18:59:05 Located across the street to the east.
18:59:14 Just north of that, the east.
18:59:19 Across the street.
18:59:21 Staff has found petition to be inconsistent.

18:59:31 However if petitioner is willing to make the revision,
18:59:33 then we will amend it and find it to be consistent.
18:59:39 Land Development Coordination found it inconsistent
18:59:42 and requested the petitioner add the waiver to the
18:59:46 special use criteria to allow access to the local
18:59:48 road.
18:59:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Any motion for approval would
18:59:52 include the waiver from us.
18:59:53 >>> Yes.
18:59:55 And that conclude my presentation.
18:59:56 Thank you.
18:59:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Planning Commission.
19:00:09 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
19:00:11 I have been sworn in.
19:00:14 Moving a little slow because I'm a little under the
19:00:16 weather.
19:00:17 No sympathy, please.
19:00:23 Just a couple of extra things. This is just south of
19:00:26 Busch Boulevard and west of 15th street just
19:00:28 outside the city limits of Temple Terrace, this is
19:00:31 within the boundaries of the Temple Crest civic
19:00:33 association neighborhood.

19:00:34 >>> Close to Mel's hotdogs?
19:00:37 >> Yes.
19:00:38 Mel's hotdogs is not too far away at all.
19:00:41 The land use category is residential 20.
19:00:44 Residential 35 to the north off of citrus.
19:00:47 CMU 35 which goes all the way to Busch Boulevard and
19:00:50 residential 10 to the south of Yukon.
19:00:54 The proposed use would compliment very nicely the
19:00:57 church.
19:00:59 The applicant is the Bible fellowship church of Temple
19:01:01 Terrace.
19:01:05 Residential 10 land use category not only allows
19:01:08 single-family attached residences in multifamily
19:01:11 projects but also community-serving special uses such
19:01:13 as churches, daycares and schools.
19:01:15 Planning Commission staff found the request consistent
19:01:17 with the comprehensive plan.
19:01:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Garcia.
19:01:21 Petitioner.
19:01:22 Just out of curiosity, Mr. Stutzman, is there anybody
19:01:31 here to speak for or against this from the community?
19:01:33 Would you raise your hand or otherwise indicate?

19:01:35 Mr. Stutzman, it might help you with your
19:01:40 presentation.
19:01:41 >>> Was there anybody that wanted to speak?
19:01:43 I didn't notice.
19:01:47 We'll keep it real short.
19:01:49 We are going to have to amend the site plan and add a
19:01:53 condition between first and second reading.
19:01:56 There's one other minor change to add.
19:01:58 I have discussed this with the stormwater department
19:01:59 and they don't have a problem with it.
19:02:01 And I can explain it briefly.
19:02:08 We initially put -- we initially requested that we
19:02:15 showed the potential for a ditch or pipe along the
19:02:18 west side of orange place, to accommodate what may be
19:02:22 required in the stormwater accommodation.
19:02:25 What bee would like to do is give the option to put
19:02:28 that on either side.
19:02:29 The reason being, there are a couple of single-family
19:02:32 homes north of here.
19:02:33 And what we are trying to do is run the stormwater
19:02:37 where stormwater has a facility to accommodate our
19:02:40 stormwater.

19:02:41 And the church does own all the property on the east
19:02:45 side of orange place.
19:02:47 And that would be a much more convenient way to run it
19:02:54 rather than having to serve a single-family driveway
19:02:58 further to the north so we would like to have that
19:03:00 changed also with the waiver.
19:03:02 >> Mr. Stefan, I don't know if you were here earlier.
19:03:07 We had a discussion earlier about stormwater.
19:03:11 Mr. Caetano asked what is the stormwater requirement
19:03:13 for projects and I started explaining that half inch
19:03:16 and that sort of thing but you do a lot of these.
19:03:18 Tell us real quick, what does our department require
19:03:21 of you as a developer?
19:03:22 >>> I'm not an engineer so what I try to do is punt
19:03:27 when that question comes up.
19:03:28 I think there is a representative of stormwater staff
19:03:30 here.
19:03:31 >> Are they here tonight?
19:03:32 >>> Usually we just try to show generally where a
19:03:35 retention pond might go, or if we feel we need to do
19:03:39 vaulted retention we do that.
19:03:41 This is a case where it took a little more attention,

19:03:44 that we needed to address it in a little more detail
19:03:46 and that's why they requested showing the ditch, or
19:03:49 pipes up to citrus circle.
19:03:51 >> Good.
19:03:52 We are glad they are being diligent.
19:03:54 Okay.
19:03:54 Any questions for the petitioner?
19:03:56 >> Move to close.
19:03:59 >> Second.
19:03:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: One other thing, Mr. Stutzman.
19:04:04 In addition to stormwater issue, a special use waiver
19:04:06 in regard to access to --
19:04:11 >>> yes, we are.
19:04:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Scott.
19:04:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, you want to close?
19:04:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion and second to close.
19:04:19 (Motion carried).
19:04:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I want to move this petition.
19:04:26 >> Second.
19:04:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I did a walk through, walk around,
19:04:30 walked over, walked on, familiar with it, and the
19:04:34 church has done a good job out in that area, the

19:04:44 fellowship church there, on much of the land in that
19:04:49 whole strip there.
19:04:50 And I am going to move the application with the
19:04:53 understanding, with the change requested by staff, and
19:04:58 with the condition that requested on the east side.
19:05:07 >> Either side.
19:05:08 >> So staff, you understand?
19:05:11 So we need to move this thing.
19:05:12 >> First reading.
19:05:14 >> Mr. Chairman, did I get a second?
19:05:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
19:05:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
19:05:21 I would like to move an ordinance rezoning property in
19:05:23 the general vicinity of 8710, 8712, 8716 North Orange
19:05:30 Place in the city of Tampa, Florida, and more
19:05:31 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
19:05:32 district classification RS-50 residential
19:05:38 single-family to PD planned development, daycare,
19:05:40 providing an effective date.
19:05:40 >> We have a motion from Councilman Scott and seconded
19:05:44 by Councilman Miranda to approve.
19:05:46 Any discussion on the motion?

19:05:48 (Motion carried)
19:05:53 They should all be so easy.
19:05:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open item number 7.
19:06:00 >> Second.
19:06:00 (Motion carried)
19:06:28 >>JILL FINNEY: Land Development Coordination.
19:06:30 I have been sworn.
19:06:31 We are here for petition Z-08-15 located at 102 north
19:06:37 Jefferson street from CBD2 central business district
19:06:41 to CBD2 central business district with use
19:06:47 of residential multi-family. The petitioner is
19:06:47 proposing to rezone the property in order to develop
19:06:49 the 5,281 square foot site with 61 multifamily
19:06:54 residential units.
19:06:55 The development is proposing a 43-story structure
19:06:58 consisting of three public amenity mechanical stories,
19:07:02 nine stories of parking and 31 stories of residential
19:07:05 units above the parking.
19:07:07 The total maximum highlight of 531 feet has been
19:07:11 approved, has been proposed by the petitioner and
19:07:13 approved through the Federal Aviation Authority.
19:07:16 A total of 61 parking spaces are required, and a

19:07:19 minimum of 98 spaces will be provided with the
19:07:24 proposed automated robotic parking system.
19:07:28 There are two entrances to the system from Jefferson
19:07:31 street, and to the vehicle loading zone where the
19:07:34 vehicle is in a parking space within the nine stories
19:07:38 of the building.
19:07:39 Site is proposing 15% of covered open space consisting
19:07:43 of public amenities and art work.
19:07:44 There is no commercial component.
19:07:50 Floor elevations have been submitted and reviewed as
19:07:53 part of this rezoning petition.
19:07:55 Here we have a zoning map of the local area.
19:08:12 It's predominantly CBD2.
19:08:21 >> We are talking about that entire block?
19:08:27 >> No.
19:08:27 We are talking about this parcel right here.
19:08:31 This is the block.
19:08:33 And --
19:08:37 >> We have a focus problem.
19:08:40 The subject parcel.
19:08:50 You have the Crosstown to the south.
19:08:52 Whiting is running to the south.

19:08:53 The north-south street is Jefferson.
19:08:57 To the east.
19:08:59 And then you have Florida Avenue over to the west.
19:09:05 >> Where is Kennedy?
19:09:06 >> Kennedy would be right here.
19:09:09 >> The closest building to this project right now,
19:09:13 maybe you can point to us and tell us what it is.
19:09:17 It's a test.
19:09:19 >>> I know there's a lot of parking lots around here.
19:09:27 The Office lounge directly to the east, this block
19:09:32 right here.
19:09:33 >> Got it.
19:09:36 >>> As you can see there's a lot of parking.
19:09:45 The aerial with the Crosstown.
19:09:46 >> I think the office is a pretty old brick building
19:09:50 which changed names over the years but it's pretty.
19:09:53 One-story brick building.
19:09:54 >>> One-story brick building, exactly.
19:10:00 It's.
19:10:01 >> It's a bar.
19:10:01 There you go.
19:10:04 >>> Here is a photo of the site.

19:10:13 With the crosstown running here.
19:10:18 This is looking north on the site.
19:10:23 This is the lot right next to it.
19:10:28 This is looking northeast.
19:10:34 And then this is the building we were just speaking
19:10:36 of, councilman Dingfelder.
19:10:39 The office.
19:10:39 This is directly to the east.
19:10:42 This is looking south.
19:10:46 And this is the view to the west.
19:10:50 City staff found this request to be inconsistent.
19:11:05 I have received a site plan revision sheet from the
19:11:08 petitioner with they have addressed many of our
19:11:10 concerns.
19:11:11 They have done a revised site plan.
19:11:15 They have not turned it in yet, though, addressing
19:11:17 many of our concerns.
19:11:18 I will turn that in.
19:11:20 I will say that stormwater -- say stormwater comments
19:11:24 in my report have been resigned.
19:11:26 They are not applicable to this.
19:11:27 And the majority of Wilson's comments have been

19:11:31 mitigated.
19:11:32 And basically, the only objections that remain would
19:11:39 be based on compatibility, that I have brought forth
19:11:45 and the one from Wilson Stair pertaining to the curb
19:11:47 cuts and the vehicular entrances dominating the street
19:11:52 frontage on Jefferson street.
19:11:53 And how it interacts with pedestrian activity at that
19:11:58 level.
19:11:59 Thank you.
19:12:02 I would like to submit this into the record.
19:12:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's not clear -- Julia?
19:12:09 It's not clear to me whether the objections that she
19:12:14 just shared relate to the existing site plan or the
19:12:19 future site plan, would we be going ahead and have a
19:12:27 chance to review the future site plan?
19:12:29 What is your recommendation, Ms. Cole?
19:12:32 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
19:12:33 I think what Jill -- Mrs. Karsi is saying is that the
19:12:38 technical objections that were part of their staff
19:12:41 report can be met.
19:12:43 If this were to go forward with more stormwater
19:12:47 preference.

19:12:47 But has not been resolved, or what is still in front
19:12:51 of you today is whether or not this plan is compatible
19:12:55 with the area, consistent with the provisions for
19:13:00 streetscape design as part of -- Mr. Stair, it's
19:13:07 really more a question of whether or not this is an
19:13:08 appropriate plan to go forward with.
19:13:10 That is not a question that staff can keep them from
19:13:15 moving forward on.
19:13:17 It's something this applicant has a right to have come
19:13:19 before you and make a determination as to whether or
19:13:21 not this plan complies with those provisions.
19:13:25 That's what's in front of you right now.
19:13:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Why don't we do this so the record
19:13:30 is abundant abundantly clear?
19:13:34 Will you grab your staff report?
19:13:35 And Wilson, you're next.
19:13:37 But Jill, go over the staff report and tell us what
19:13:40 issues are still outstanding from your perspective and
19:13:45 then we are going to have Wilson come up and talk
19:13:47 about his.
19:13:47 >>> Okay.
19:13:50 Finding it inconsistent based on the fact this project

19:13:53 is located in the east office district within the CBD
19:13:56 which encourages office, mixed use and support type
19:13:59 uses, and this project is proposing strictly
19:14:02 residential uses.
19:14:04 Staff objection is coming from Land Development
19:14:06 Coordination.
19:14:07 >> And that's on page 2, the second dot.
19:14:09 >>> Yes.
19:14:11 >> If anybody wants to look at it.
19:14:14 Anything else from your office's perspective?
19:14:16 >>> No.
19:14:20 Transportation and stormwater has been addressed.
19:14:27 And landscaping has been addressed.
19:14:30 So then it would be Wilson's comments.
19:14:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
19:14:34 Wilson.
19:14:35 Your comments start on page 4 of the staff report.
19:14:45 Have they met or satisfied any of your concerns?
19:14:48 Or conversely which concerns do you still have
19:14:51 outstanding looking at page 4 on your report?
19:14:55 >>WILSON STAIR: Manager, urban design, architectural
19:15:00 review.

19:15:00 I have been sworn.
19:15:05 They have answered and made corrections of all of the
19:15:09 issues that I brought up.
19:15:12 However, this particular building is extremely unique
19:15:18 in the sense of its size.
19:15:21 It's an 8th of a block.
19:15:24 In general, Portland, Oregon, is the only other city
19:15:29 that I know that has smaller blocks, total block area
19:15:35 than we do.
19:15:37 It's 200-foot square.
19:15:39 Tampa is roughly 210 to 212 square.
19:15:44 Which is a little under an acre.
19:15:46 But this particular site and parcel is an 8th of a
19:15:51 city block, which means it's extremely small.
19:15:55 The building will be very slender.
19:15:59 And at the base of the building, because of its size,
19:16:05 to get loading docks, get driveways, curb cuts, and
19:16:11 you are going to take up most of the building, at
19:16:14 least on one side.
19:16:16 In this particular case, it's a corner location, and
19:16:23 two sides will have to be dealt with in terms of
19:16:27 visual interests, how the building looks, where it is

19:16:33 until it gets other buildings that come in next to it.
19:16:36 Right now it's mostly a parking lot.
19:16:39 But my, I guess, concern really boils down to the
19:16:48 precedent it sets.
19:16:52 Nowhere in the downtown area, the central business
19:16:55 district, do we prohibit parking on the first floor,
19:17:01 with the exception of Franklin Street.
19:17:03 The Franklin Street retail district, and it runs
19:17:06 roughly from Whiting Street up to Cass Street.
19:17:10 Other locations outside of that, again because of the
19:17:14 size of our city blocks, we can't get the wrapping
19:17:22 system for parking up to the second level.
19:17:24 It's just too small.
19:17:25 So we either need to look at, as a city as a whole,
19:17:31 and the size of what we allow in terms of parking for
19:17:40 a half a block or less.
19:17:43 This particular case they can handle.
19:17:47 It's not that technically they can't do it because
19:17:50 they can use robotics parking and all.
19:17:54 But it's an issue that I believe we need to address in
19:17:58 the future.
19:17:59 I just think, in terms of compatibility, number one,

19:18:05 they are zoned for high-rise building, to be a
19:18:08 high-rise building.
19:18:10 They have got several buildings nearby, within two
19:18:13 blocks.
19:18:15 One is a SunTrust building.
19:18:16 It's 36 stories.
19:18:18 The county building, it's probably in the same
19:18:21 neighborhood.
19:18:22 But I think where my concern is, this sets a precedent
19:18:30 of doing these high-rise spikes on such small parcels
19:18:38 that there is a question of compatibility.
19:18:43 And that's the bottom line.
19:18:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: To hone in on that your report says
19:18:49 this situation impacts the ground floor architecture
19:18:52 and the pedestrian environment.
19:18:54 Is that still valid in your report?
19:18:56 >> Yes.
19:18:58 Although the architect had addressed that in terms of
19:19:04 visual interest.
19:19:05 In other words, we may put gates across the vehicle
19:19:11 openings, but they have got it treated in an
19:19:14 interesting way, put awnings on any of the windows or

19:19:20 openings that they have at the base, and we prohibit
19:19:26 blank walls on buildings downtown, the street wall.
19:19:30 So they have addressed it as best they can.
19:19:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mrs. Saul-Sena, question.
19:19:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
19:19:46 Do you have the ability to say that -- do any of our
19:19:51 rules discuss this, the minimum size of a site?
19:19:55 >>> No.
19:19:56 We do not.
19:19:57 In fact, we have another project on Franklin Street
19:20:00 that it hasn't proceeded, but they have been approved
19:20:05 by Construction Services Center.
19:20:07 In other words, they could get a building permit if
19:20:09 the market was right.
19:20:12 And we have got a place that it's 50 feet wide by 100
19:20:16 feet deep, roughly the same size of this size.
19:20:19 And there's 12 condo units, or three stories above it.
19:20:26 On the first floor they have gotten parking in
19:20:28 somehow.
19:20:29 But it's not -- it's not super unique.
19:20:33 But I think what makes this one very unique is the
19:20:38 sense that it's 43 stories on such a small parcel.

19:20:45 And that's it in a nutshell.
19:20:47 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: In your professional opinion, do
19:20:51 you think that this building is doable, even though
19:20:54 it's on a small lot?
19:20:56 Of course it's unique.
19:20:57 I don't think we have anything like it in the city, do
19:20:59 we?
19:21:01 >>WILSON STAIR: No.
19:21:01 No.
19:21:02 In fact, I don't know.
19:21:04 I haven't seen a building this slender anywhere.
19:21:08 However, they do tell me they have got them in New
19:21:10 York and some other.
19:21:12 Technically they can build it.
19:21:15 But it is extremely slender, when you look at the
19:21:20 scale of it.
19:21:21 43 stories, and 50 feet wide.
19:21:24 I mean, a 50-foot by 100-foot parcel is a small
19:21:33 residence could go on it.
19:21:35 >> When you are outside looking at the building, would
19:21:37 you know, unless you had knowledge of it being a
19:21:41 parking garage inside, would you have the ability to

19:21:50 define what's in the building?
19:21:51 >>> They have integrated the parking.
19:21:55 In other words, they have architecturally integrated
19:21:58 the parking to answer your question.
19:21:59 >> Is it visible from the street?
19:22:02 >>WILSON STAIR: No, no.
19:22:03 They have hidden the parking.
19:22:05 I mean, it looks like --
19:22:10 >> Like the building is skinny.
19:22:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Wilson.
19:22:17 Mr. Garcia.
19:22:23 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
19:22:25 I have been sworn.
19:22:28 We all know it's in the CBD.
19:22:32 To give you a little more context.
19:22:36 The elementary school is right here.
19:22:37 Kennedy Boulevard to the north.
19:22:44 My home right here.
19:22:45 >> Home away from home.
19:22:47 >> Home away from home.
19:22:49 Across the street.
19:22:53 This building has been around a long time.

19:22:56 As you have already been briefed on, the proposed
19:22:59 building is approximately 43 stories high.
19:23:01 Will house 61 residential units and have automated
19:23:04 parking being proposed for the site.
19:23:05 The site is approximately one eighth of this block.
19:23:08 A little over 5,000 square feet.
19:23:11 These two lots have already been approved for
19:23:13 high-rise development in excess of 450 feet adjacent
19:23:17 to the site.
19:23:20 This is unique again.
19:23:22 As Mr. Stair has mentioned because of its narrowness,
19:23:26 compactness on such a small footprint.
19:23:29 Again, there is no, as you have queried, Mrs.
19:23:34 Saul-Sena, about, do we have a limit on the actual
19:23:37 size that someone can come in with a CBD?
19:23:39 And there really is nothing to that.
19:23:41 This would actually be kind of like precedent setting
19:23:44 for something this high on this narrow a footprint.
19:23:47 However looking at all the policy in the comprehensive
19:23:50 plan that encourage residential development within the
19:23:52 CBD it talks about residential or mixed use,
19:23:57 incentives to all projects of this nature, residential

19:24:00 projects.
19:24:00 So from a whole you have to find a project like this
19:24:03 consistent with a plan.
19:24:04 However, I will tell you that there are policies in
19:24:08 the CBD.
19:24:13 Goal three of the CBD talks about creating attractive
19:24:17 pedestrian connection as long Franklin Street, the
19:24:19 waterfront, CBD, giving high priority to movement,
19:24:22 pedestrians, CBD districts should include pedestrian
19:24:25 amenities, and then goes on to say about the
19:24:28 unobstructed pedestrian movement zones.
19:24:31 And the last site I plan I saw the project does not
19:24:34 fully demonstrate convenient unobstructed pedestrian
19:24:38 movement.
19:24:38 That's probably the only thing I would say.
19:24:39 When you have a footprint this small, the
19:24:41 functionality of the first floor in its relationship
19:24:45 to the surrounding suffers a little bit.
19:24:49 But with all the policies in the CBD Planning
19:24:52 Commission staff really found the proposed request
19:24:55 consistent with the comprehensive plan based on all
19:24:58 the policies in there but at the same time we are

19:25:01 sensitive to the aspect of pedestrian functionality
19:25:04 and compatibility in Tampa CBD.
19:25:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Any questions for Tony?
19:25:10 Petitioner?
19:25:11 I understand you have an audio visual presentation?
19:25:18 >>> We will towards the end of our presentation.
19:25:23 My name is Keith Bricklemyer, the attorney for the
19:25:26 applicant and property owner, Bayshore four seasons
19:25:30 limited.
19:25:32 We have our architect, traffic engineer, and parking
19:25:36 consultants here this evening to answer any questions
19:25:39 that I might not be able to answer, and I will
19:25:44 specifically address the staff concerns that have been
19:25:47 raised.
19:25:52 I am absolutely delighted to have an opportunity to
19:25:56 represent this project, and to present it to you
19:25:59 tonight.
19:26:00 I think if Tampa is going to grow up to be a big city
19:26:03 they have to think a little bit differently than the
19:26:05 way we have traditionally thought.
19:26:10 This is a unique project.
19:26:13 The history of why it's a unique project is that the

19:26:16 property owner, who owns this parcel, attempted to
19:26:19 acquire other parcels in the block and was unable to
19:26:22 do so.
19:26:24 What's he going to do?
19:26:25 He hired a team of engineers and architects to say,
19:26:29 okay, what is the potential, what is feasible to
19:26:32 develop on this site?
19:26:35 From an engineering perspective and from an
19:26:38 architectural perspective.
19:26:40 I think the drawings you are looking at now
19:26:42 demonstrate that not only is it feasible, it's a cool
19:26:46 project.
19:26:47 This will really be making a knew mark.
19:26:51 And talk about setting a precedent, it will set an
19:26:54 incredibly good precedent for how to develop a partial
19:26:58 block in the City of Tampa.
19:27:00 You can't do it with parking ramps.
19:27:04 I hate parking ramps.
19:27:06 Drive to the top floor of any of our high-rise
19:27:09 buildings in downtown Tampa, and you need to stop and
19:27:13 get yourself from being dizzy.
19:27:16 This solves the problem.

19:27:17 And we are going to show you how it solves the
19:27:19 problem.
19:27:20 It solves the problem with robotic parking, and the
19:27:23 system is a system that is used around the world in
19:27:27 many, many different cities, many, many different
19:27:32 kinds of projects, but projects exactly like this one,
19:27:35 and we'll have an example of one that we'll talk to
19:27:38 you about later.
19:27:42 Not withstanding the res a sans of staff to say, yeah,
19:27:46 this is great, that's what they were telling us behind
19:27:50 the closed doors when we brought this project in and
19:27:54 as we worked through the months of meetings, and
19:27:57 addressed every concern, access, parking, height, how
19:28:03 do you deal with making the streetscape pedestrian
19:28:07 friendly?
19:28:08 And I would just ask you to look at -- this is what
19:28:11 the streetscape is going to look like.
19:28:26 I'll bring up this site.
19:28:27 The building is in the background.
19:28:29 We are going to show you a little automated fly-around
19:28:32 how this building fits into the city as it currently
19:28:35 exists.

19:28:36 But I think the city would be well served to consider
19:28:41 adding this element to the skyline as compared to the
19:28:44 current parking lot that we have which is really not
19:28:48 very cool, I don't think.
19:28:50 We have agreed, and after my conversation with Wilson
19:29:04 and Jill the day before yesterday, we resolved all the
19:29:07 objections.
19:29:07 And I think the only objection you have heard is
19:29:11 something about fear.
19:29:14 I don't know how to describe it any other way.
19:29:17 There is nothing incompatible with a high-rise
19:29:20 building and the materials we have submitted into the
19:29:22 record that show all four elevations, it is a very
19:29:25 slender building.
19:29:26 It is a tall building.
19:29:27 But it's beautiful.
19:29:28 It's absolutely a beautiful building.
19:29:31 And the streetscapes, as compared to the rest of the
19:29:36 City of Tampa, there is no comparison.
19:29:40 I'll give you just a couple of examples.
19:29:42 And I don't want to throw stones at anybody else's
19:29:45 projects.

19:29:48 But this is what exists in the City of Tampa now.
19:29:51 The concern is about this kind of treatment, where you
19:29:57 have access points for vehicles and service vehicles.
19:30:04 In our case we have 61 units.
19:30:06 A maximum potential of 61 units.
19:30:09 The entrance area -- let's see, it's on this
19:30:12 elevation.
19:30:17 You have two vehicle entrances that are served by
19:30:24 elevators, for those residents in this building.
19:30:29 So they open on demand.
19:30:32 So the majority of the time they are closed.
19:30:35 They are decorative gates that we have proposed the
19:30:40 design, Wilson wants to us make it a little more
19:30:43 ornate.
19:30:44 That's not a problem.
19:30:44 They are decorative gates that will be closed.
19:30:46 This is the service entrance for the garbage truck.
19:30:49 It won't go except in the wee hours when the garbage
19:30:53 truck comes by.
19:30:54 So the street presence of this project, I think, is
19:30:57 very appealing, and much more so than what we have
19:31:01 allowed to occur in the City of Tampa so far.

19:31:04 We have agreed to a condition that Wilson -- at
19:31:07 Wilson's suggestion that we have a sequential review
19:31:10 of 30, 60, 90% plans so that we can tweak the details
19:31:14 of the design elements as we go forward with the
19:31:16 project.
19:31:17 For example, Wilson would like us to close the sides
19:31:23 of the awning so you don't see the structure, make the
19:31:25 awning lower so it is closer to the sidewalk and
19:31:30 service a better function.
19:31:32 Those are great ideas and something that will occur as
19:31:33 the process goes forward.
19:31:35 I think the bottom line is what this project proves is
19:31:41 that you can build a high-rise building in the City of
19:31:46 Tampa on less than a full block.
19:31:49 Without a robotic parking system such as proposed
19:31:53 here.
19:31:53 You can't do that.
19:31:54 You simply can't do it.
19:31:55 So you limit the density of the city to a really
19:31:58 nonurban type environment, whereas this gives the
19:32:01 opportunity to do something unique.
19:32:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me interrupt you.

19:32:08 And I am going to give you plenty of time but I
19:32:11 thought for the sake of expediency.
19:32:13 Is there anybody here speaking for or against this
19:32:15 project other than Mr. Bricklemyer's team?
19:32:17 Okay, do you have some opposition, or some folks --
19:32:20 there might be opposition so continue on.
19:32:27 Go ahead.
19:32:29 >>> That's an unwilling seller who happens to be the
19:32:32 neighbor.
19:32:32 We do have a fly-around if we can call it T fly-around
19:32:36 up.
19:32:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Technical folks?
19:32:49 There you go.
19:32:52 >>> We have a red light on top.
19:33:06 We propose blue.
19:33:10 I think that gives you a feel for how this building
19:33:22 would fit into the downtown skyline.
19:33:24 And I think the renderings of the streetscapes give
19:33:27 you a really good understanding about how such a
19:33:30 building can be made pedestrian friendly.
19:33:33 If you look at the rendering, the office, Mr.
19:33:40 Dingfelder, that you were speaking of, the brick

19:33:42 building in the foreground, that's the building in the
19:33:44 foreground of the rendering.
19:33:45 And I suggest to you that the street presentation of
19:33:49 our building is more akin to that single-level
19:33:52 building than the parking garages and ramps that you
19:33:59 see, for example, in the overhead.
19:34:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do you have an extra copy?
19:34:07 I'm sorry.
19:34:08 >>> Yes, ma'am, I am going to submit booklets to you.
19:34:13 I didn't want it coming through while you were talking
19:34:15 but that's okay.
19:34:22 I didn't want you to have opportunity to look at it.
19:34:26 The remaining part of our presentation --
19:34:28 >>> I'm sorry to interrupt, but there is not a copy of
19:34:30 that book in the record.
19:34:31 >> Not in the record but it's in the staff files.
19:34:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: In the staff files.
19:34:35 >>> Yes.
19:34:36 We will present one in just a moment if I may finish
19:34:38 the presentation.
19:34:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry.
19:34:40 >>> The remainder of the presentation deals with be

19:34:42 the robotic parking system because it is something
19:34:44 that's unusual.
19:34:45 We have brought a representative of the company that
19:34:51 manufactures these systems from Germany here to give
19:34:54 you a presentation so I am going to ask him to come
19:34:57 up.
19:34:57 And if you would use that PowerPoint presentation,
19:35:00 please.
19:35:06 >>MARY MULHERN: We have seen it before.
19:35:08 Mr. Bricklemyer, we have seen it before.
19:35:10 Somebody in Channelside is already doing robotic
19:35:12 parking.
19:35:15 >>> Different.
19:35:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's his time.
19:35:19 He can use it as he wishes.
19:35:27 >>> I'm from the company in Germany.
19:35:33 I will present the company.
19:35:36 And manufacturer of mechanical parking systems.
19:35:40 It is family-owned company and over 100 years old.
19:35:45 Today we have 103 years.
19:35:53 In 1959 installed the first mechanical parking system,
19:35:56 so can talk about almost 50 year experience in the

19:35:59 mechanical parking.
19:36:01 Since 1974, our company concentrated on the
19:36:08 installation and manufacturing of mechanical parking
19:36:11 systems.
19:36:11 We have no other business.
19:36:13 Today we installed 20,000 parking places per year
19:36:21 until now, worldwide more than 300,000 mechanical
19:36:24 parking places are installed.
19:36:26 We stack two cars above each other moving platforms up
19:36:39 to the fully automated parking systems, for the
19:36:46 project in Tampa.
19:36:47 Had blah
19:36:51 We have installed more than 120 projects worldwide.
19:36:55 For example, in the U.K. and London, Liverpool, in
19:36:59 Spain, in France, in Germany, of course, in Vienna,
19:37:06 and Budapest, in China, Beijing, and other Asian
19:37:13 countries.
19:37:16 Our main clients, one of our main clients, we build
19:37:24 for these warehouses for their testing and trials and
19:37:32 we build attractive glass towers to present and store
19:37:37 from a very small footprint.
19:37:45 We have a project here in the United States, in

19:37:47 Washington, D.C., in San Francisco, and one presently
19:37:51 under construction.
19:37:54 The second page in the lower line, the second picture,
19:37:58 lower line, shows you the installation in
19:38:02 San Francisco.
19:38:03 A lift similar to the situation that we have planned
19:38:06 here for this project.
19:38:08 This is a system with 12 parking levels.
19:38:12 This project in Tampa we are talking about nine.
19:38:16 The third picture in the lower line shows the two
19:38:19 interactive rooms of the project in Washington, D.C.
19:38:23 For this project here in Tampa, it's well planned.
19:38:29 Two rooms, in case something happen with one box, the
19:38:32 driver has the chance to use another one to park the
19:38:35 car.
19:38:45 It has a lot of advantages.
19:38:46 Space saving flexible adjustment.
19:38:52 Safety for the user.
19:38:54 Safety for the car.
19:39:01 No theft or vandalism.
19:39:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When somebody pulls it up and gets
19:39:06 ready for the next person, I guess.

19:39:10 >>> If you consider that a trained user needs about 40
19:39:14 seconds to park the car, then after two minutes, the
19:39:19 next user can drive in.
19:39:21 But we have two rooms.
19:39:23 That means after one minute.
19:39:26 >> I was a little concerned about stacking in peak
19:39:30 hours.
19:39:31 >>> Yeah.
19:39:31 And can park roundabout 45 cars per hour.
19:39:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Go ahead.
19:39:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think this is brilliant.
19:39:48 Really fascinating.
19:39:49 >>> So the general thinking is the parking system, you
19:39:53 have an entrance on one hand, and the storage area on
19:39:57 the other end, and the user has to deal only with the
19:39:59 entrance, only with the entrance area.
19:40:02 The storage area can be in the basement or here in
19:40:08 this project.
19:40:14 With the next picture, I would like to show you how
19:40:17 simple it is to park the car.
19:40:20 The garage door, open the door, the doors open, the
19:40:28 driver drives in, parks the car, leaves the car,

19:40:34 leaves the room, and the parking process again with
19:40:38 the operation.
19:40:41 After the door closes, and park the car into the
19:40:46 storage area.
19:40:52 You have to use to the terminal, and bring the car
19:40:59 into the access room.
19:41:02 The door opens.
19:41:03 And the user can enter the room, and did K drive away.
19:41:11 These pictures show you installation in Liverpool,
19:41:17 U.K., the same technology we have planned for this in
19:41:20 Tampa.
19:41:23 It is based on the main elevator, in the main lift in
19:41:26 the middle of the system and on the left and side of
19:41:29 the shaft the parking places are installed.
19:41:32 In Liverpool we have ten parking levels.
19:41:37 We have nine parking levels.
19:41:38 The only difference is here in Liverpool, the parking
19:41:41 system starts ground floor.
19:41:44 The project in Tampa, we start with parking at the
19:41:47 first floor.
19:41:50 It means hear for this project, we will install two
19:41:52 additional auxiliary lifts which lifts the car from

19:41:57 the ground floor to the first floor and here we move
19:41:59 the car through the main elevator.
19:42:02 It's the only difference.
19:42:07 These pictures show you the situation inside the
19:42:09 storage area.
19:42:10 You can see the open lift, and on the left the main
19:42:17 lifting device.
19:42:19 The lifting device, the shuttle.
19:42:29 Our control units, fully automatic parking systems
19:42:33 worldwide are in Germany, quarters operated seven days
19:42:39 a week, and 24 hours a day.
19:42:43 So if something should happen with the parking system
19:42:46 we can react immediately and can assist the local
19:42:49 maintenance crew.
19:42:53 Thank you.
19:42:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, sir.
19:42:55 Any questions on the parking? Any questions on the
19:42:57 petitioner at all?
19:43:01 Mr. Caetano.
19:43:03 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: (off microphone) do you have a
19:43:09 generator?
19:43:10 >>> I think this is planned, considered, yes.

19:43:23 >>MARY MULHERN: I can't believe you have been building
19:43:25 these since I was born.
19:43:27 But my question, the ones that you have built in the
19:43:29 U.S., I know I have been looking through here.
19:43:33 Are they all underground, the parking?
19:43:36 >>> Underground in Washington, D.C. and will be the
19:43:40 project in Philadelphia, and San Francisco above
19:43:45 ground.
19:43:46 >> Okay.
19:43:47 To me it seems very ironic because this is your site.
19:43:59 The little tiny building and you are going to build it
19:44:01 up but it just seems kind of funny that's where it's
19:44:03 going.
19:44:07 This probably isn't a question for you.
19:44:09 It may be for petitioner.
19:44:10 But what is the cost, like for the operation cost?
19:44:15 Does that make parking more expensive to operate it?
19:44:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Compared to constructing a typical
19:44:28 garage?
19:44:29 >> Yes.
19:44:29 >>> We have done an extensive amount of investigation
19:44:32 on that issue.

19:44:33 It's much more expensive to install this system,
19:44:36 particularly with two elevators instead of just one.
19:44:39 It adds about $15,000 a unit to the cost of the unit.
19:44:45 The sense of the owners is that it will be so much
19:44:48 more convenient, so much more safe, and the price of
19:44:53 units are going to be such that it's really not going
19:44:55 to be an issue at all.
19:44:57 >> What are you thinking of T price will be?
19:45:00 >>> We will hopefully answer that question when the
19:45:03 market rebounds this year.
19:45:06 [ Laughter ]
19:45:09 >> All right.
19:45:09 >>> I wouldn't hazard a guess about what any unit --
19:45:14 >> Well --
19:45:18 >>> this will be a very exclusive, small community.
19:45:21 The footprint on each floor accommodates four units.
19:45:24 We expect there won't be four units.
19:45:27 Probably be two units on some floors.
19:45:37 >>> Approximately 2,000 square feet.
19:45:39 >> And this is for upscale condo.
19:45:41 >>> Yes.
19:45:42 Unless somebody bought both units.

19:45:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: How many parking spaces, slots, I
19:45:47 don't know what you call them.
19:45:48 >> Cubies.
19:45:51 >> Providing for 98 parking spaces.
19:45:51 >>> The code requires 61.
19:45:55 If this were a typical garage, and we provided guest
19:45:58 parking, you would have 74.
19:46:01 But we expect that this is going to be two-car parking
19:46:07 for most of the units.
19:46:08 >> One and a half, two cars?
19:46:12 >>> Yes.
19:46:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Any on the questions?
19:46:14 >>MARY MULHERN: Let me ask one more question.
19:46:16 I just can't get over this.
19:46:22 Is this current?
19:46:27 This is really so, your high-end towers going in.
19:46:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't think anything else is
19:46:35 built --
19:46:37 >>> that would have been from the beginning of 2006.
19:46:39 It's pretty current.
19:46:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Your time ran out.
19:46:44 >>> That concludes our presentation.

19:46:46 And we will be available to answer questions as need
19:46:49 be.
19:46:54 Oh, I'm sorry.
19:46:55 We would like to submit these binders into the record.
19:46:58 Give one to the clerk.
19:46:59 >>MARY MULHERN: We all have them.
19:47:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mrs. Saul-Sena needs one.
19:47:05 You got one?
19:47:05 Okay.
19:47:09 Petitioner, anybody in the public like to speak for or
19:47:11 against this project?
19:47:20 >>> Good evening.
19:47:22 Ann Pollack, 305 South Boulevard with Mechanik Nuccio.
19:47:26 I have been sworn.
19:47:27 I represent Ken Casperson who is the property owner of
19:47:32 the bar we were all talking about across the street
19:47:36 and several other properties there.
19:47:38 For the most part, we are very supportive of
19:47:41 development of this area, of residential development,
19:47:46 of bringing development into this part of town.
19:47:50 However, as councilman Dingfelder mentioned, we have
19:47:56 some serious concerns about parking.

19:48:00 While in general we don't have any problems with
19:48:02 automated parking, the idea of it, we feel that it is
19:48:06 really not appropriate for this site, and that
19:48:10 stacking and queuing issues that could arise
19:48:13 especially in the p.m., afternoon rush hour, could
19:48:16 cause some concern, and cause quite a bit of backup.
19:48:21 We are unaware of any conditions that have been placed
19:48:24 on the site plan to address these issues, and we would
19:48:26 ask that the staff go back and take another look and
19:48:31 work with us.
19:48:33 Randy Coen of Cohen and company, traffic engineering,
19:48:37 is here to elaborate on our concerns.
19:48:44 >>> Randy Coen, 4121 West Cypress street.
19:48:49 I have been sworn.
19:48:49 I am here to talk about the project a little bit and
19:48:51 have a couple.
19:48:55 An aerial.
19:48:59 I used it initially simply to locate the project,
19:49:03 indicate all the parking that's around it.
19:49:07 This is an alleyway immediately to the north of the
19:49:09 property that's used for entrance and access to the
19:49:12 vast majority of this parking here.

19:49:16 This is Whiting.
19:49:17 This is Washington.
19:49:18 This is pierce.
19:49:20 Really, I have some concerns and they really don't
19:49:22 revolve at all around the robotic issue.
19:49:25 I love the idea.
19:49:26 I really like the concept of it.
19:49:28 But we simply have some concerns.
19:49:32 We represent the property owner to the immediate east
19:49:34 of this property.
19:49:36 When you look at the site plan --
19:49:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me.
19:49:40 Immediate east like across the street?
19:49:43 >>> The brick building we were talking about.
19:49:45 When you look at the site, the site is very
19:49:47 challenged, basically a standard, almost residential
19:49:50 50 building lot in Palma Ceia.
19:49:52 It's 52 feet 8 inches by 100 feet.
19:49:56 They have done a wonderful job of designing this
19:49:58 project.
19:49:59 Don't have a problem with it with from that
19:50:02 standpoint.

19:50:02 When we look at the project in particular, we look at
19:50:05 the analysis that was presented in the transportation
19:50:08 analysis.
19:50:08 It assumed three minutes for each operation of a
19:50:11 vehicle up and down.
19:50:12 It seems consistent.
19:50:13 I have been on the web.
19:50:14 I have looked at robotic systems, parking, web site,
19:50:18 et cetera, everything is doing fine.
19:50:21 They indicate that there's room for two vehicles to
19:50:23 queue outside of the elevator area.
19:50:27 I have to assume that the queuing is here and here.
19:50:31 This is basically about 18, 15 to 18 feet from the
19:50:35 edge of pavement to the garage door.
19:50:40 It's blocking the sidewalk.
19:50:41 Somewhat of an issue but we'll let that one slide.
19:50:45 And I have been having some discussions about queuing
19:50:48 on Jefferson.
19:50:49 If you choose that on Jefferson, remember that we have
19:50:52 an alley and a driveway here.
19:50:54 Anything more than one vehicle will block that
19:50:56 alleyway.

19:50:58 What the real concern here is, we have an operation
19:51:01 that if this were a hotel with a 24 hour valet
19:51:05 operation, I probably wouldn't have any concerns at
19:51:07 all from a traffic standpoint.
19:51:08 But what we are hearing, because there are no
19:51:11 conditions on the zoning site plan that I am aware of,
19:51:13 this is a self-regulating residential operation.
19:51:16 And that's fine.
19:51:17 But there's one item that has not been brought up in
19:51:21 anything that we talked about today.
19:51:23 Loading and unloading.
19:51:24 This is a residential condo.
19:51:27 People go to the grocery store.
19:51:28 People go to -- you have to load a car and unload a
19:51:32 car.
19:51:33 Are you going to do it sitting on the sidewalk?
19:51:35 Or are you going to do it sitting in the elevator bay?
19:51:37 The idea of three minutes to take the car up, park it,
19:51:41 and platform back down and have use for another car,
19:51:45 there's simply no zoning condition that relate to
19:51:47 loading and unloading.
19:51:49 Where else will it occur other than these elevator

19:51:53 bays?
19:51:53 How long does it take?
19:51:56 To take out the little plastic bags, 15, 18, 20,
19:51:59 whatever it is bags from the grocery store, put it in
19:52:02 a cart or do something with it.
19:52:04 Get yourself out of this parking bay, either the
19:52:07 pedestrian elevators, by the way, the residence
19:52:10 elevator.
19:52:11 How long does that take?
19:52:12 That adds to this three minutes when you are going up,
19:52:15 you are going down.
19:52:16 Don't know the answer.
19:52:17 But I certainly have concerns.
19:52:20 We go on about it.
19:52:22 Basically, what I believe at the end of the day is
19:52:24 there needs to be some additional zoning conditions
19:52:27 placed on this project that addresses the issues, that
19:52:32 in fact we find people parking here, we find folks,
19:52:35 oh, let me bring the car down and my staff will come
19:52:38 down in a couple of minutes and get in the car, it
19:52:40 will be five or ten.
19:52:41 Same thing with, oh, I need to run up and get

19:52:44 something, an uncovered area.
19:52:46 They have no loading or unloading proximate to
19:52:49 Jefferson or Whiting for the project.
19:52:51 That's our real concern and that's really our only
19:52:53 concern.
19:52:54 And for my client, it's an issue of if there were
19:52:57 zoning conditions that adequately address these
19:52:59 issues, where there's a zoning violation if we have a
19:53:02 problem, then we probably don't have an issue because
19:53:05 City Council can certainly enforce a zoning violation.
19:53:08 But as the site plan exists today there are no such
19:53:11 conditions.
19:53:12 There are no parameters.
19:53:13 There are no operating procedures.
19:53:15 And that's where we are concerned, because if it does
19:53:20 so in an unfortunate way we could have some
19:53:23 substantial back universities.
19:53:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question for Mr. Cohen.
19:53:28 Keep that picture there.
19:53:32 It appears that -- which is which?
19:53:39 >>> Whiting is here.
19:53:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: North to the top.

19:53:43 County center to the top.
19:53:44 >>> This is Whiting.
19:53:46 Whiting today has little traffic.
19:53:49 If Con-Agra goes away we'll extend to the Meridian.
19:53:54 Fort Brooke parking garage.
19:53:56 What we have today is not an issue.
19:54:00 In the future, maybe.
19:54:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My question is this.
19:54:03 I believe we have on-street parking there now.
19:54:05 >>> Yes.
19:54:06 On-street parking.
19:54:10 Across the street, to the north of the street.
19:54:12 It's simply an issue.
19:54:13 Are people going to park there to unload and load
19:54:16 their vehicle?
19:54:17 And bring it to the entrance?
19:54:19 Or are they going to park in the elevator shaft and
19:54:22 then do their own?
19:54:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It seems to me that -- there's an
19:54:31 inverse relationship between the expense of a unit and
19:54:35 the amount of groceries that people buy.
19:54:37 People who live here are not going to be unloading 18

19:54:40 bags of groceries.
19:54:41 They are going to have their parties catered and going
19:54:44 out to eat.
19:54:45 My feeling that the real issue is, for example, let's
19:54:48 say there were -- I had a mother who is in a
19:54:53 wheelchair.
19:54:54 Often, it's getting somebody out of a car.
19:54:57 That takes five minutes.
19:54:59 >>> Yes.
19:55:00 Or small child in a car seat.
19:55:02 >> Exactly.
19:55:03 But the issue here would be, could a load -- obviously
19:55:07 it's going to be a Concierge on this building company.
19:55:14 You have the load/unload on the narrowest portion of
19:55:18 the building on the street that's dedicated to this
19:55:20 building, and that could --
19:55:24 >>> it would certainly be a good idea.
19:55:26 This is about 25 fate.
19:55:31 City typically requires a minimum of 30 feet from the
19:55:34 intersection for a clear zone and visibility before
19:55:36 they start parking.
19:55:38 This is in downtown.

19:55:40 >>> 30 feet?
19:55:42 >> 30 feet.
19:55:43 No parking here.
19:55:44 >> Maybe the question should be for Mr. Bricklemyer.
19:55:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Any other questions for Mr. Cohen
19:55:52 before Mr. Bricklemyer?
19:55:55 Okay.
19:55:55 Mr. Bricklemyer, rebuttal.
19:55:57 Oh, I had a question of Mr. Cohen.
19:55:59 Excuse me, Keith.
19:56:01 I'll ask for anybody else, too.
19:56:03 Mr. Cohen, your client owns a club across the street.
19:56:10 The club hours, I would guess, probably don't start at
19:56:12 six in the evening or during the peak hour.
19:56:21 I know maybe that's not the highest and best use for
19:56:24 that parcel and you might have some future ideas about
19:56:26 your own high-rise.
19:56:28 But right now you don't really have an hours conflict.
19:56:34 >> We don't have a conflict.
19:56:36 What we do have is potential for redevelopment of our
19:56:38 parcel of land.
19:56:39 But the real concern is, there are no zoning

19:56:42 conditions regarding the operation of this particular
19:56:45 parcel of land and loading and unloading.
19:56:48 So, therefore, there cannot be a zoning violation,
19:56:51 because things go awry regarding loading and
19:56:54 unloading.
19:56:55 If there were such conditions, I'm sure staff could
19:56:58 come up with them, between staff and legal, we
19:57:00 probably wouldn't have a problem at all.
19:57:01 It's simply an unregulated operation.
19:57:04 >> Did you bring any suggested zoning conditions with
19:57:07 you?
19:57:08 >>> No, we did not.
19:57:09 >> Did you want to add anything?
19:57:19 >>> I just wanted to point out that our client also
19:57:22 owns an office building that is right around the
19:57:27 corner.
19:57:32 Here.
19:57:35 So they are using Washington and they are using
19:57:37 Jefferson.
19:57:37 And there's quite a bit of office there.
19:57:40 So there's more than just late-nightclubbing activity
19:57:43 going on, the school there, most of the school stuff

19:57:48 goes on earlier.
19:57:49 But I just wanted to clarify.
19:57:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Bricklemyer, rebuttal?
19:57:55 I'm sorry.
19:57:55 Was there anybody else in the audience wishing to
19:57:57 speak on this?
19:57:59 Question to who?
19:58:06 Jill, you had clarification?
19:58:10 >>JILL FINNEY: There is a request for the waiver to
19:58:12 the required loading berth from 2 to zero and that's a
19:58:17 waiver from chapter 27, that's 247.
19:58:20 >> That's usually trucks.
19:58:21 >>> Well, defined as any space that can be used for
19:58:26 loading and unloading of goods.
19:58:28 You're right, it generally is referred to in that
19:58:30 capacity.
19:58:31 However, for residential, it is applicable in this
19:58:34 situation as well.
19:58:36 >> From two to zero.
19:58:39 >>> Yes.
19:58:40 And they do have one provided.
19:58:41 But it's being jointly used with solid waste.

19:58:44 So solid waste would object if they had labeled as a
19:58:48 loading berth.
19:58:50 So it is joint, the double use there.
19:58:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Seeing nobody else in the audience
19:58:57 we'll hear from petitioner with rebuttal.
19:59:01 >>> Keith Bricklemyer: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
19:59:04 Unfortunately the opposition doesn't know, because
19:59:07 they didn't give the courtesy of calling me before
19:59:09 this hearing, they don't know that the analysis that
19:59:12 they reviewed was for one elevator.
19:59:16 Staff identified this issue as at the very beginning
19:59:19 of the project and said, we want two.
19:59:22 So the capacity issue is, we generate 21 vehicles in
19:59:27 the peak hour, p.m. peak hour, with two elevators
19:59:32 provide service for 45 vehicles in the p.m. peak hour.
19:59:38 It's a non-issue.
19:59:39 Absolutely a non-issue.
19:59:40 We have more than enough capacity, almost double the
19:59:44 capacity for what we need to accommodate a peak hour.
19:59:47 >> Is there a revised traffic analysis submitted?
19:59:50 >>> Wasn't required.
19:59:51 >> Okay.

19:59:54 Is there one now?
19:59:55 >>> No.
19:59:57 The analysis that was in the -- submitted initially
20:00:01 assumed one elevator.
20:00:02 It said we had 21 vehicles in the peak hour.
20:00:07 And the elevator accommodates 22 and a half.
20:00:10 So the queuing is on the platform, not in the street
20:00:13 or on the sidewalk.
20:00:15 And expressed concern about that and we went back and
20:00:20 talked to the property owners and they said, well,
20:00:23 we'll put the second elevator in.
20:00:24 That doubles the capacity. That makes it even better
20:00:27 for the residents. Now, had someone called me before
20:00:29 this hearing we could have had that conversation.
20:00:31 But that's not the case.
20:00:33 Other important fact you need to know is -- and I
20:00:35 don't know why it wasn't explained to you.
20:00:38 Mr. Casperson also owns the remainder of this block.
20:00:41 And was the party that my client attempted to buy the
20:00:46 land from, who was unwilling to have that
20:00:48 conversation.
20:00:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Bricklemyer.

20:00:55 Mr. Caetano?
20:00:58 >>MARY MULHERN: You have two elevators but you can
20:01:03 only use -- can anyone in the building use either
20:01:09 elevator?
20:01:10 >>> Yes.
20:01:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Caetano?
20:01:13 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: How does one get their trash?
20:01:15 Are there chutes going down?
20:01:17 >>> Chutes, yes, sir.
20:01:22 >> Any other questions?
20:01:25 One other question.
20:01:26 >> Is there a sprinkler system in the building?
20:01:29 >>> I assume it's got to be done.
20:01:31 It's required.
20:01:32 >> It's required?
20:01:33 >>> Yes, sir.
20:01:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Anything else?
20:01:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
20:01:41 >>MARY MULHERN: I have some questions for staff.
20:01:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Go ahead.
20:01:47 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't understand, the waiver -- they
20:01:55 are requesting a waiver from two loading berths to

20:01:59 zero.
20:02:01 And in time they are sharing it with solid waste.
20:02:05 I don't understand.
20:02:07 Solid waste is going to have to use -- I can't see
20:02:11 here the zoning loading space at all.
20:02:15 If you look at the northernmost corner of the
20:02:19 building, this is the dumpster.
20:02:27 >> The solid waste truck.
20:02:30 >> The truck can pull right in there?
20:02:32 >> Yes.
20:02:36 >> Which is another way it was requested from the
20:02:41 right-of-way.
20:02:41 >> See how it looks so oddly tall, and, I mean, it's
20:02:50 thin, but kind of wide.
20:02:51 It just seems like -- isn't it vulnerable to wind and
20:03:01 storms?
20:03:02 Maybe it's an insurance question.
20:03:03 I don't know.
20:03:03 >>> We have addressed that with the petitioner.
20:03:07 They have assured us that engineering studies have
20:03:09 been done on this building, and it's sustainable
20:03:12 through high winds and hurricanes.

20:03:14 I could let the petitioner speak to that further.
20:03:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you want to hear on that?
20:03:26 >> Yes, if they have anything to say.
20:03:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think bike racks are required in
20:03:41 the downtown thing, aren't they?
20:03:45 >>> One of the significant questions early on when the
20:03:48 owners were unable to acquire any other parcels and
20:03:52 investigated the feasibility what could be developed,
20:03:54 he went to Moore and associate and determined what
20:04:01 could be done within that small envelope, and that's
20:04:03 how we got total 43 stories that we are at.
20:04:06 >> Who did you go to?
20:04:07 >>> Walter P. Moore and Associates.
20:04:11 I would suggest the top people in that business.
20:04:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And there are bike racks or bike
20:04:17 facilities of some sort?
20:04:19 I don't know if that was a serious question or not.
20:04:21 >> These are really good questions.
20:04:23 >>> If there needs to be, there will be.
20:04:25 >> Another question that I have.
20:04:29 And this is probably for staff.
20:04:30 But I don't see any really -- I mean, there's

20:04:36 sidewalks with some trees in there but there's really
20:04:39 no green space that I see at all.
20:04:44 Am I missing something?
20:04:49 >>> In CBD what we go by is open space as opposed to
20:04:53 green space, with the 15% requirement, the petitioner
20:04:55 is meeting that.
20:04:57 I can let Wilson further elaborate.
20:05:03 >> A problem that we have, if they are meeting their
20:05:06 requirement, but I don't think green space and open
20:05:08 space are equal and we need to work on that.
20:05:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If they are meeting the requirement
20:05:15 we can't --
20:05:17 >>MARY MULHERN: I know.
20:05:18 I'm just saying.
20:05:19 There's lots of people listening.
20:05:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Scott?
20:05:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
20:05:26 I just want to make mention, I don't know how many got
20:05:30 the letter from Christine Burdick supporting the
20:05:32 project, already endorsed the project.
20:05:37 However, on this project they encourage it because of
20:05:41 downtown development.

20:05:42 Did you get a copy of this?
20:05:43 I just wanted to make sure on the record as well.
20:05:46 >> Mrs. Burdick with the downtown partnership.
20:05:50 Anything else?
20:05:50 A motion and second to close.
20:05:54 Motion passes.
20:05:55 Mrs. Saul-Sena.
20:05:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman, fellow council member
20:06:00 members, when I first saw the site plan I was
20:06:03 skeptical because I thought, HA!
20:06:06 Here is a spire in what is currently awe sea of
20:06:12 surface parking lots and I thought, this is what we
20:06:14 want to be when we grow up.
20:06:16 It's very urban.
20:06:17 It's beautiful.
20:06:17 It's clef.
20:06:18 I think the robotic parking is very -- is an ingenuous
20:06:23 response to a top challenge, which is a tiny site, and
20:06:27 I think what's before us is very attractive.
20:06:30 And I think that if we look long enough, we'll see the
20:06:37 rest of the block built, too.
20:06:38 I think this petitioner, the reason it looks rather

20:06:42 strange is because it's in an area that's currently
20:06:46 desolate, but the positive way of looking at it is
20:06:50 that this is a pioneering project.
20:06:53 And the concern I had initially was for the amount of
20:06:56 orientation to cars.
20:06:57 But looking at the open space on the south side, and
20:07:08 landscaping to be far more than they committed to on
20:07:11 the site plan.
20:07:12 And will you do that?
20:07:15 Between first and second reading you can come back.
20:07:21 I guess we closed the public hearing.
20:07:26 You have so little.
20:07:30 I would like to move an ordinance rezoning property in
20:07:33 the general vicinity of 102 north Jefferson street in
20:07:36 the city of Tampa, Florida more particularly described
20:07:37 in section 1 from zoning district classification CBD 2
20:07:42 central business district 2 to CBD 2, central business
20:07:46 district, residential, multifamily, providing an
20:07:48 effective date.
20:07:50 >> Second.
20:07:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Discussion on the motion.
20:07:54 Reverend Scott.

20:07:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: When I see my packet of information
20:07:57 and also Mr. Bricklemyer, it's a lot of information
20:08:04 and I went through it, I wondered how you were going
20:08:07 to overcome all these inconsistencies.
20:08:10 And I looked at the project.
20:08:12 I was just fascinated at the design of it.
20:08:15 And it's a beautiful, beautiful project.
20:08:21 And then to hear the presentation about the parking,
20:08:25 and the others got excited about that, I just want you
20:08:30 to be able to experience that.
20:08:33 To see how it really works.
20:08:36 It is so intriguing.
20:08:37 Just so intriguing, you know.
20:08:39 And I want to commend you and those who worked on this
20:08:44 project to really be -- councilwoman Saul-Sena to be
20:08:50 the pioneer, in downtown Tampa.
20:08:52 >> Ms. Mulhern.
20:08:59 >>MARY MULHERN: I guess it doesn't make any sense, I
20:09:02 guess, that people don't really vote on anything like
20:09:05 that.
20:09:05 But this is something I want to point out.
20:09:08 And Linda, you said first it seemed crazy to you.

20:09:12 Here's what seems crazy to you.
20:09:14 If you look at -- thank you, the gentleman from WOHR
20:09:20 who gave us the great pictures, he have single one of
20:09:24 these robotic garages, as far as I can tell, has kind
20:09:29 of mid-level.
20:09:31 The ones in Europe especially.
20:09:33 This is what zone based zoning is.
20:09:36 It's not stick a spire in the middle of a sea of
20:09:43 street parking, and the reason there are narrow
20:09:45 buildings like this, like the Flat Iron building in
20:09:48 New York is because of the existing density that's
20:09:50 already there.
20:09:51 So the whole thing seems really absurd.
20:09:53 I am going to support it because I don't have any
20:09:55 reason not to but I think as far as planning and
20:09:57 zoning and our codes go, it's crazy.
20:10:04 Saul-Sena
20:10:06 >>> I did want to point out when Mrs. Saul-Sena made
20:10:11 the motion she wanted as a condition to increase the
20:10:13 landscaping.
20:10:14 But I think we need something a little more specific
20:10:16 than that to make sure we have it in the site plan

20:10:18 correctly.
20:10:19 I have spoken with the petitioner's representative and
20:10:21 they'll agree to a 25% increase in the landscaping,
20:10:24 and Mary Daniels Bryson indicated that would be
20:10:28 appropriate, because the site can actually get that
20:10:31 amount on so I request that you have as part of your
20:10:34 motion a 25% increase in the landscaping as required.
20:10:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My motion includes a 25% increase
20:10:43 to the landscaping.
20:10:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion and second.
20:10:46 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I can see why Mr. Scott is all
20:10:50 excited about this because he's never seen anything
20:10:51 like this in the county.
20:10:53 [ Laughter ]
20:10:54 You have got to remember you are in the city.
20:10:56 And things are going to change in this city.
20:10:59 And I think it's a great project.
20:11:01 It's really far advanced.
20:11:04 Congratulations.
20:11:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I can't tell you what member, Mr.
20:11:09 Chairman, but one member told me this is the -- of
20:11:14 tall buildings (laughter) and it was not I.

20:11:16 But it sounded very good.
20:11:18 >> Who remembers in New York, right? That's what it
20:11:27 reminds me of, where you pick your sandwich and it
20:11:28 goes around and around. Marty, you remember that.
20:11:30 The automat.
20:11:32 Yes.
20:11:32 We have we have a motion that includes the 25%
20:11:36 increase in landscape.
20:11:37 In addition, there's additional conditions.
20:11:40 Jill, do you want to remind us?
20:11:42 >>JILL FINNEY: Yes.
20:11:46 Legal revision.
20:11:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And you incorporate those as well.
20:11:51 All right.
20:11:52 All in favor?
20:11:52 The motion passes unanimously.
20:11:54 Mr. Shelby.
20:11:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Second reading and public hearing?
20:11:57 >>THE CLERK: April 3rd at 9:30 in the morning.
20:12:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you very much.
20:12:07 Item number 8.
20:12:08 The last one of the evening.

20:12:11 Motion and second to open.
20:12:16 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
20:12:17 Any opposed?
20:12:18 Motion passes.
20:12:22 >>JILL FINNEY: Land Development Coordination.
20:13:00 I have been sworn.
20:13:00 We are hear for petition Z 08-16 located at 1510 east
20:13:05 Crawford circle from RS-60 residential single-family
20:13:08 to RS-50 residential single-family.
20:13:10 The petitioner proposes to rezone the property to
20:13:13 create two buildable lots measuring 50 feet by 115
20:13:18 feet.
20:13:19 The fight is currently undeveloped.
20:13:22 Standard setbacks for RS-50 are as follows: 20-foot
20:13:26 front yard setback, 20-foot rear yard setback, 7-foot
20:13:30 side yard setback.
20:13:32 This is for a Euclidean zone district.
20:13:35 Therefore no site plan is required.
20:13:37 Proposed construction must adhere to all applicable
20:13:39 City of Tampa development regulations.
20:13:46 Here is the zoning map of the local area.
20:13:52 You can see the Hillsborough River to the north.

20:13:56 Sligh Avenue to the south.
20:14:04 Here is the aerial.
20:14:07 Beautiful canopy.
20:14:12 And here we have the map of the area.
20:14:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Did we receive a copy of that?
20:14:20 >>> I will submit this into the record.
20:14:24 It wasn't in the record but it was on the table.
20:14:30 >> I didn't see it.
20:14:31 I went oaf things at the conference table with Julia
20:14:33 Cole and it was not there.
20:14:35 Do you have a copy for us now?
20:14:37 >>> Sure.
20:14:39 I believe it needs to be passed out.
20:14:43 >> Can you pass it out?
20:14:44 >>> It's there already.
20:14:50 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I'm sorry, it got hung up over
20:14:52 here.
20:14:55 >>> On this map, it represents conforming lots, and
20:15:05 that means that they are conform tots RS 15 or higher.
20:15:14 They are built out at less than RS-60 standards.
20:15:17 You can see we did several blocks.
20:15:21 Of the 50 lots that were assessed, 36 of the lots were

20:15:25 found to be conforming, and 72% and 14 lots were
20:15:31 nonconform.
20:15:32 So less than RS-60 standards equal about 28%.
20:15:38 Here is a picture of the subject property.
20:15:48 This is the site here.
20:15:50 This is the home located just to the north.
20:15:59 Here is the home located to the east.
20:16:04 To the south.
20:16:07 And this is to the west.
20:16:13 All of this property belongs to this owner here for
20:16:16 this one lot.
20:16:19 Based on the map and the site visit to the area
20:16:27 looking at the current characteristic of the
20:16:30 neighborhood, city staff finds the petition to be
20:16:34 inconsistent with our City of Tampa land development
20:16:36 regulations.
20:16:39 Thank you.
20:16:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
20:16:42 Planning Commission.
20:16:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The photographer skills are really
20:16:53 improving.
20:16:53 These are beautiful pictures.

20:16:54 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
20:16:56 I have been sworn.
20:16:56 The predominant land use classification for the area
20:16:58 is residential 10, is located in the Old Seminole
20:17:00 Heights boundaries, Hillsborough River, as you can
20:17:07 see.
20:17:11 When we have that we have problems with irregular
20:17:15 shaped lots.
20:17:16 You are going to have some instances where you are
20:17:19 going to have lots of varying sizes, as you can see by
20:17:21 the parcelization here.
20:17:23 We do have a variety of lots in various sizes.
20:17:27 We know that the land development -- they have to go
20:17:31 by pretty much the red and blue map.
20:17:34 But we have to also look at the overall existing look
20:17:38 what's going to be there which is single-family
20:17:41 detached homes.
20:17:42 We look at the overall character as far as it not
20:17:45 eroding the residential and the comp plan aspect.
20:17:49 With that being said Planning Commission staff finds
20:17:51 the proposed request consistent with the comprehensive
20:17:54 plan.

20:17:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There's no red lots, there's no
20:17:58 blue lots, there's only united lots?
20:18:01 [ Laughter ]
20:18:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Charlie, for your
20:18:08 endorsement.
20:18:09 >>> If I can submit the map into the record.
20:18:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Petitioner.
20:18:16 Sorry for the levity.
20:18:19 >>> Good evening.
20:18:22 My name is Sydney Payne.
20:18:25 I have been sworn.
20:18:25 Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today.
20:18:31 I am an owner of these lots.
20:18:33 I have lived in the Seminole Heights area for more
20:18:35 than 15 years, actually owned four houses in that
20:18:38 immediate neighborhood.
20:18:40 All the houses are well kept, lawn service, very well
20:18:49 kept homes.
20:18:51 My attention was to live in the community, own some
20:18:54 real estate in the community, retire in the community,
20:18:57 be close to my investment.
20:18:59 Okay.

20:19:02 My intention of buying these lots initially was to
20:19:07 build one house.
20:19:09 But with the escalating real estate, taxes, insurance,
20:19:18 and I guess depreciating market value, I would look at
20:19:25 another option as far as to split the lot.
20:19:28 And kind of keep the end in mind I do plan to live on
20:19:32 these lots, one of these lots.
20:19:34 At some point, many of my neighbors in the room, I
20:19:38 want to stay friends with you one way or the other.
20:19:44 These lots go back to when this area was first platted
20:19:51 and it was platted in two lots.
20:19:53 And it just so happens that two lots, one lot ends up
20:19:58 on the corner.
20:20:03 One lot is on the corner here.
20:20:06 And this lot is measuring now 40 feet frontage, and
20:20:13 the lot here is 60 feet.
20:20:15 The reason this one is cut to the corner, cut it off.
20:20:21 And so I have had it resurveyed where the middle lot
20:20:29 line has been drawn, with two 50-foot lots, 120, which
20:20:35 meets the requirements for RS-50 as far as square
20:20:39 footage, and frontage, in that case.
20:20:47 In Seminole Heights, you know Seminole Heights is a

20:20:50 I.V. very diverse community, socioeconomic level, the
20:20:53 black, white, kind of run-down house next to a nice
20:20:58 house, and this sentence not a nuance in Seminole
20:21:00 Heights.
20:21:01 Some people really moved there because it's built like
20:21:04 a real neighborhood.
20:21:04 It's the real world.
20:21:05 It's not full of track houses.
20:21:07 All the houses were built back in the 1920s,
20:21:11 1950s, so there is some conformity in the houses,
20:21:16 many of them are bungalow.
20:21:17 If you just look at a tight map, if you look at six
20:21:21 blocks, in that six blocks, there were 30%,
20:21:26 approximately 30% of those houses, and they were built
20:21:28 on lots that were 50 feet wide, and 70% were built on
20:21:32 lots that were 60 feet, majority wide.
20:21:36 Okay.
20:21:40 To say that 30% is insignificant to the whole, I think
20:21:43 is kind of misnomer, to look at this room and say
20:21:48 these chairs over here are inconsistent with the room.
20:21:50 You know, these chairs are heifer are different. If
20:21:52 you want to sit in that chair, sit in this kind of

20:21:55 chair.
20:21:56 I think that's what Seminole Heights is about.
20:21:58 Now, is there some variety of houses?
20:22:00 It's not a track neighborhood.
20:22:05 So to state it's inconsistent, I think the type of
20:22:13 houses that I would propose to be build would be
20:22:16 bungalow style houses, that would be consistent with
20:22:19 the neighborhood, two-story houses, much like the
20:22:23 house that's behind it, and conform to all the
20:22:26 Seminole Heights requirements and look and so forth
20:22:32 and they would fit within these parcels.
20:22:40 To look a little bit wider there, the lots that I own
20:22:55 are here.
20:22:56 If you look immediately around, I think it showed up
20:22:58 on the red-blue map as well.
20:23:01 The houses that are here, this is a 55.
20:23:05 Here is a 55.
20:23:06 Here another 55.
20:23:08 Many of the houses on this block, probably about half
20:23:16 the houses in this area are 50-foot lots.
20:23:19 Many of the houses in this area right here, I would
20:23:23 say, are properties that are in poor repair, and

20:23:28 probably people of lower economic levels live in these
20:23:31 houses.
20:23:32 So the house as round here are very -- so I'm saying
20:23:39 there's a real mix in this area.
20:23:41 And I think these 50-foot lots would be substantial.
20:23:49 The type of house that we are looking at, pictured
20:23:56 here, this house, I believe it's seven or eight blocks
20:24:08 away.
20:24:09 There's another house very similar to this on north
20:24:13 13th which is very close to the property.
20:24:23 The Seminole Heights neighborhood association, the
20:24:26 land use committee, I had in the beginning, they came
20:24:30 out and did a site visit.
20:24:35 Their land use committee, a gentleman named Chad
20:24:38 signed off.
20:24:39 They didn't have any connection with the lot as far as
20:24:44 what we proposed to build, or the style of the house
20:24:47 that we proposed to build on those lots.
20:24:52 I think Seminole Heights homeowners neighborhood or
20:24:54 neighborhood association is probably one of the most
20:24:56 critical neighborhood associations in the city.
20:24:59 They didn't have any problem with this.

20:25:04 When it comes to the immediate neighbors behind the
20:25:12 houses pictures -- pictured, there's a big brick
20:25:19 house.
20:25:19 This is the orchard of the mansion.
20:25:21 So for the lady that lived in the brick house lived
20:25:26 there, that's been an open area behind the house.
20:25:29 Kind of like having a park behind your house.
20:25:31 And to many residents surrounding this area, this has
20:25:35 been an open area.
20:25:36 Who wouldn't like to have a park next to their house
20:25:38 to keep the grass truck and so forth?
20:25:42 You know, I sympathize with them that, you know,
20:25:47 change may happen.
20:25:50 But I think that's one of the issues here, is that
20:25:57 they would rather keep it empty.
20:26:03 One of the down sides of having empty lots there, and
20:26:08 this has come from a couple of neighbors, you get
20:26:11 people driving off of Sligh Avenue which is not very
20:26:13 far, or actually Hillsborough Avenue pulling up on the
20:26:16 side, and there's prostitute activity there, there's
20:26:20 drug activity there, there's trash on the ground from
20:26:23 time to time, and this is all due to the fact that

20:26:26 this is a vacant lot.
20:26:27 No one lives there.
20:26:28 There's no presence there.
20:26:30 And people know that they can pull in these dark areas
20:26:33 and do whatever they want to do.
20:26:36 By building some houses there and putting some
20:26:40 families in the houses, I think it would do away with
20:26:43 that problem.
20:26:48 The city of Tampa, the comprehensive plan, as far as
20:26:54 neighborhood growth, encourages growth such as this.
20:26:58 The houses that we propose to build would probably
20:27:03 cost in the neighborhood of 200, $250,000.
20:27:06 But basically the cost per square foot of these
20:27:09 houses, these homes, would be equal to the surrounding
20:27:13 homes.
20:27:14 So I don't think it would be a matter of the people in
20:27:17 surrounding areas losing property values, because we
20:27:20 put up, you know, a cinder block house next to a nicer
20:27:28 house.
20:27:28 These houses would be smaller but I think they would
20:27:31 be attractive, and maintain the property value.
20:27:34 And again, I live in that neighborhood.

20:27:36 I own four houses in the neighborhood.
20:27:38 And these two lots.
20:27:43 It's in my interest that the neighborhood maintain its
20:27:47 real estate value.
20:27:51 The reports by the city, one department said
20:27:57 inconsistent.
20:27:58 There were ten different departments, I think, that
20:28:00 came out and looked at this project.
20:28:03 Nine out of the ten departments gave it a passing
20:28:07 score.
20:28:08 Finding no inconsistencies in the project.
20:28:17 Again, Seminole Heights is a very -- Seminole Heights
20:28:20 neighborhood association is very critical.
20:28:22 I think they kind of made the standard in our areas,
20:28:26 making sure things are done right.
20:28:29 If two houses were to be built here, they would be
20:28:37 along all the regulations and guidelines of the city,
20:28:39 and again Seminole Heights neighborhood association.
20:28:42 As far as appearance.
20:28:53 This is another home here I think that you have seen.
20:28:56 Another example.
20:29:01 Just to give you an idea of how it would lay out on

20:29:09 the lot, this is where the houses -- that you can look
20:29:23 at.
20:29:24 Both houses would face Crawford.
20:29:27 The driveway across from Crawford is a big historical
20:29:33 grand oak tree.
20:29:35 I don't think it would interfere at all.
20:29:38 It would be over here.
20:29:39 A two-car garage in the back.
20:29:41 And the other house is facing the front.
20:29:44 Slightly different, you know, front on the house, make
20:29:48 it look a little more difficult.
20:29:50 But the driveway will come in off of 17th street.
20:29:56 I think there's enough room there, RS-50.
20:30:02 And we think if we did build two homes -- and if you
20:30:06 were to approve this to give me the option to build
20:30:08 either one or two homes on this property.
20:30:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
20:30:17 Any questions?
20:30:18 Thank you, sir.
20:30:19 You will have a chance for rebuttal after we hear from
20:30:22 the community.
20:30:22 Anybody that would like to speak for or against this

20:30:24 project, please come forward.
20:30:26 You have three minutes each.
20:30:27 And state your name for the record.
20:30:31 Whether or not you have been sworn.
20:30:32 >>> I have been sworn.
20:30:33 My name is Matt wheeler, 7105 north 15th.
20:30:36 I live two houses down.
20:30:38 Looking at the map, you can see clearly that the
20:30:42 immediate area where Mr. Payne wishes to build his two
20:30:50 homes, the division of the property, would be
20:30:52 definitely inconsistent.
20:30:53 The style of home would definitely be inconsistent.
20:30:56 Mr. Payne referred to the fact that Seminole Heights
20:30:59 is very esoteric.
20:31:01 I agree.
20:31:02 Esoteric is fine but when you are moving forward, you
20:31:05 can move forward in a positive direction, not
20:31:07 backwards.
20:31:07 We want to make this a better looking neighborhood.
20:31:10 And not just keep throwing anything and everything out
20:31:13 there.
20:31:16 I am living two house as way.

20:31:18 I live in a very small bungalow but my lot is bigger
20:31:22 than the two lots Mr. Payne would want to set aside in
20:31:25 this property.
20:31:26 Eight houses down.
20:31:27 There's $800 that you homes that have just been built.
20:31:33 Looking at two $200,000 homes two houses down from an
20:31:37 $800,000 home seems inconsistent to me.
20:31:40 This is a very unique neighborhood.
20:31:43 As Mr. Payne mentioned, the tree on the corner of one
20:31:47 lot, this is a beautiful area.
20:31:49 We are on the river.
20:31:51 River Bend is a special part of Tampa.
20:31:55 We haven't seen the wealth in this area that we have
20:31:59 in other areas, but it's up and coming.
20:32:06 I would hate to see this beautiful River Bend area
20:32:08 being turned into rental property of tiny match box
20:32:13 homes.
20:32:13 We don't want to do that.
20:32:14 They want to go in the other direction.
20:32:17 Another item, 17th street, which one of the house
20:32:21 homes would drive up on, it is an alley, not really a
20:32:24 street.

20:32:26 The block that he's R she's building on is a very
20:32:29 short block.
20:32:30 There's three houses to the east.
20:32:32 There's three houses to the west.
20:32:34 17th isn't really -- if you look at it, it's a
20:32:38 very narrow street.
20:32:40 Two cars can't really go through there.
20:32:42 And he wants to make that a major -- it would be
20:32:46 another driveway.
20:32:49 There's already two driveways off of this home, off of
20:32:52 this street.
20:32:53 It's impractical.
20:32:54 And it wouldn't be -- good to look at.
20:33:01 I urge to you reject this petition.
20:33:03 Thank you very much.
20:33:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, sir.
20:33:06 Next.
20:33:07 >> Gina Wheeler, 7105 north 15th street.
20:33:13 I have no problem with the building of a single home.
20:33:16 Absolutely not.
20:33:18 It's the two homes that we really are not very happy
20:33:21 with.

20:33:22 Because as we see this, the houses will be smaller,
20:33:25 the traffic.
20:33:29 The statement was made again that we would love to
20:33:30 have that park.
20:33:33 Not really.
20:33:33 We would love to have a home there. But as I state we
20:33:36 would love to have just one home.
20:33:38 Thank you very much.
20:33:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mrs. Wheeler.
20:33:40 Next.
20:33:41 >>> My name is Brian Boon Jolson, I live at 1702
20:33:45 Crawford circle which is across the street from the
20:33:49 property that Mr. Payne is building on.
20:33:51 I would also like to say, well, we would welcome Mr.
20:33:55 Payne to the neighborhood.
20:33:58 My wife and I would not welcome two homes on that
20:34:00 location.
20:34:02 Our neighborhood is stable and established.
20:34:07 In that most residents are buying their homes, and
20:34:10 they have lived there for years.
20:34:12 We have been there for almost a decade.
20:34:15 And we are kind of the newcomers in the neighborhood.

20:34:17 There's people that have lived there for 20, 30, and
20:34:20 40 years, right in that area.
20:34:25 And my wife and I have problems.
20:34:28 Actually this one problem with two homes being there.
20:34:32 As I have mentioned many of the people in the
20:34:34 neighborhood, long-term owners, many of us nearing
20:34:39 retirement, some of us in retirement, and over the
20:34:43 years, we built an equity in our homes.
20:34:45 And in spite of recent downturns in real estate
20:34:49 values, the equity in our homes represents a major
20:34:52 asset if not the major asset that we have.
20:34:55 We have seen changes in the stock market.
20:34:57 Diminished value of retirement accounts.
20:34:59 We have seen valid concerns.
20:35:03 But whether Social Security is going to be around when
20:35:06 we retire.
20:35:07 And we are very, very protective about the equity in
20:35:10 our homes and many of us do feel that two homes on
20:35:13 that particular piece of property will diminish the
20:35:16 value of our properties, and thereby diminish the
20:35:20 equities on our home.
20:35:21 Thank you.

20:35:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Boon Jolson.
20:35:31 Next.
20:35:31 >> I am Bruce J. Sherwood.
20:35:34 I have been sworn.
20:35:34 I own the property at 1507 East Crawford Circle.
20:35:38 I don't know why but I never received any notification
20:35:40 whatsoever regarding this petition.
20:35:43 I own the property immediately to the south of us.
20:35:48 There's nothing here introduced tonight regarding that
20:35:50 or anything else.
20:35:50 I'm pretty upset about this actually.
20:35:53 With all due respect to Mr -- what's his name?
20:35:57 I certainly wouldn't describe that lot as a park in
20:35:59 any way shape or form.
20:36:01 In fact up until recently that was completely fenced
20:36:04 in, essentially a backyard which was effectively an
20:36:06 orange grove, it had about 25 orange trees or more
20:36:09 there on that location.
20:36:13 Sherwood, SHERWOOD.
20:36:17 1507 east Crawford.
20:36:22 I have been an occupant for over ten years now, I
20:36:27 believe.

20:36:27 >> We'll check but we are glad you are here tonight.
20:36:30 Go ahead.
20:36:31 >> Indeed.
20:36:31 I can speak to several different issues.
20:36:33 One of them actually is regarding property values, as
20:36:38 discussed, Tampa Bay realty, I think I am uniquely
20:36:43 qualified to make a determination as far as loss of
20:36:46 property value.
20:36:47 These are things that I work or have worked with up
20:36:49 until recent lip when I took some time off for my
20:36:52 health, where people come to me.
20:36:54 If somebody comes to me with this request, in my
20:36:56 opinion as to whether or not this would be a good
20:36:58 idea, I would say absolutely not.
20:37:00 As far as land use goes, I do see this as highly
20:37:02 inconsistent.
20:37:03 Most of the corner lots in that area, particularly
20:37:06 most of the things north of about a half block behind
20:37:10 me and moving north towards the river, are all huge
20:37:13 lots.
20:37:14 And homes were built on two, three and four lots
20:37:19 there.

20:37:21 You can pick and choose and you can take a map and see
20:37:24 homes in the neighborhood that are smaller homes that
20:37:26 are much tighter and much closer together but those
20:37:30 are on the side streets as far as the homes here in
20:37:33 this particular packet of homes.
20:37:37 These are much larger lots.
20:37:39 They have long been established.
20:37:41 In my opinion absolutely this would harm property
20:37:43 values of every home owner in this area.
20:37:46 Again with all due respect, to petitioner, as far
20:37:49 as -- let's say anybody who owns four homes in any one
20:37:59 area isn't a homeowner, they are a property investor
20:38:01 and they are looking for the highest rate of return on
20:38:03 the property.
20:38:04 It's been my understanding that the City of Tampa has
20:38:05 been trying to eliminate multifamily homes.
20:38:08 By the way, this hasn't been brought up either but the
20:38:10 only piece of paper I have seen from petitioner
20:38:13 included a note on there that he intended to put a
20:38:15 separate living quarters upstairs as an apartment on
20:38:18 both these homes.
20:38:19 I don't know blood pressure you but that sure sounds

20:38:22 to me like a vertical duplex.
20:38:24 I was fortunate to have that gotten rid of in a home
20:38:27 behind mine when Anthony Sierra came in and converted
20:38:31 back to single-family homes.
20:38:32 Another item to speak to would be regarding the oak
20:38:34 tree.
20:38:35 Oak tree that's been discussed isn't just an oak tree.
20:38:38 I had the good fortune to speak with a City of Tampa
20:38:41 arborist years ago and you will have the information
20:38:43 in your file.
20:38:44 I didn't bring anything here.
20:38:45 I wasn't even notified as far as the hearing.
20:38:47 I learned that my neighbors came to me and showed me
20:38:51 some piece of paper.
20:38:52 I wouldn't even have been aware of this.
20:38:54 But it's my understanding that that oak tree is --
20:38:57 which also is across the street from my home and
20:38:59 provides an enormous amount of shade to my property --
20:39:03 (Bell sounds).
20:39:04 I'll wrap it up -- is over 360 years old, is on the
20:39:08 national registry, one of the oldest trees in the
20:39:10 State of Florida, and is over six foot wide at the

20:39:14 base.
20:39:14 That tree runs under the road, runs under my front
20:39:17 yard.
20:39:18 There is no way that the setbacks that have been
20:39:20 offered here have been brought forth that would allow
20:39:24 for survival of that tree, at least in my opinion.
20:39:27 But that would be part of your due diligence here.
20:39:29 In looking at it, this is a bad idea.
20:39:32 One large home would be satisfactory.
20:39:33 We welcome that.
20:39:34 Anything else as far as shoo horning other properties,
20:39:38 bad idea for everybody.
20:39:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, sir.
20:39:41 We are going to check on this notice issue and have
20:39:44 our legal department speak to it in a minute.
20:39:48 Yes, sir.
20:39:48 >>> My name is Grace, I live at 1704 East Crawford
20:39:54 Circle.
20:39:55 Everybody said about everything that I was going to
20:39:58 say.
20:40:00 It's just two homes.
20:40:01 Two stories.

20:40:03 Don't fit in on that particular road on Crawford
20:40:06 Circle.
20:40:07 All the homes are single stories, one occupant in each
20:40:15 of the homes.
20:40:16 That's all I have to say.
20:40:17 Thank you.
20:40:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, sir.
20:40:24 Last but not least.
20:40:25 >>> My name is Jim Hewlett.
20:40:28 I'm sworn.
20:40:29 I'm a resident, 1701 Park Circle.
20:40:32 And I'm the previous owner of that lot.
20:40:35 And when I sold it to Mr. Payne, the agreement was
20:40:39 that he would build his dream home there.
20:40:42 And now he's saying because of financial reasons, or
20:40:47 real estate problems, he wants to change the zoning
20:40:50 and build two houses there.
20:40:53 Right next to where I live.
20:40:56 And I am not happy with that.
20:40:58 And I do not want to see that happen.
20:40:59 >> Are you in that brick house that we saw in the
20:41:02 picture?

20:41:02 >>> The brick house is no longer in my family.
20:41:06 My family lived in that area since the early '30s.
20:41:11 That was my grandfather's house originally.
20:41:14 And than house in no way compares to the houses he's
20:41:17 planning on building.
20:41:20 They might match the bungalow garage apartment of that
20:41:24 brick house.
20:41:26 But there's no way that those two houses that he is
20:41:35 planning on building match that brick house.
20:41:38 >> There's a picture on our over head that is right
20:41:42 there.
20:41:42 I don't know what the relevance of the picture is.
20:41:44 But --
20:41:45 >>> that is Mr. Hanovich's house to the west.
20:41:51 I have a letter from him saying that he doesn't want
20:41:53 it.
20:41:53 I have a letter here from just about every neighbor
20:41:55 around there.
20:41:57 Signed.
20:42:00 I would like to submit all these letters.
20:42:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Anything else, sir?
20:42:11 >>> No.

20:42:12 I just think you're right in not changing the zoning
20:42:15 and stick with it.
20:42:15 >>: We appreciate you coming down this evening.
20:42:21 Did you have some documents, sir, you wanted to put in
20:42:23 the record, additional letters?
20:42:26 We have some typed letters in the file already.
20:42:28 But if those are additional, that's fine.
20:42:35 Would anybody else like to speak for or against this?
20:42:37 Mr. Payne, you have, what is it, five minutes for
20:42:40 rebuttal.
20:42:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, council, if we could -- I
20:42:44 had the opportunity to talk with Mrs. Ms. Cole, and
20:42:47 she had an opportunity to interview the gentleman who
20:42:51 raised the notice issue and there's a concern over the
20:42:54 fact that he did not receive the notice.
20:42:56 It was not on the list.
20:43:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Payne, did you post signage?
20:43:04 >>> Absolutely.
20:43:05 And I sent letters to everyone.
20:43:06 I was given a list by the city.
20:43:09 They drew a circle.
20:43:10 And I sent a letter to everyone, that they indicated

20:43:13 that I should.
20:43:15 So if you didn't get one, I apologize.
20:43:18 But I think I did my duty as far as mailing out.
20:43:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let's slide over and let our legal
20:43:26 staff speak.
20:43:26 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
20:43:28 The city doesn't give the list.
20:43:30 At this time property appraiser's office that gives
20:43:32 the list.
20:43:32 And they are required to get the list from the
20:43:35 property appraiser's office.
20:43:37 The gentleman's name and address are not on the list.
20:43:41 Appears he's within the 250 feet.
20:43:44 So I'm concerned, because technically, he would have
20:43:49 been required to notice this gentleman, because of the
20:43:52 250 feet requirement.
20:43:53 But at the same time the requirement is also a list
20:43:56 from the property appraiser's office which for some
20:43:59 reason doesn't have him on the list.
20:44:01 >> So you concur the property appraiser's list was
20:44:04 perhaps inaccurate?
20:44:06 >>> It appears that the property appraiser's list is

20:44:08 inaccurate that it does not contain his address but
20:44:11 it's a 250 feet notice requirement.
20:44:15 So it puts us in a situation where there is a
20:44:19 technical notice problem.
20:44:20 >> But the other part of that equation, the fact that
20:44:24 this gentleman is here.
20:44:25 >>> He is here.
20:44:26 He would have an opportunity to speak again at second
20:44:28 reading.
20:44:30 I should say for the record that compliance with
20:44:33 notice is required.
20:44:34 You can move forward.
20:44:35 But understand that if this gentleman challenges, that
20:44:39 that is an issue we have to litigate later.
20:44:42 So I only put that out there to say, you know, he is
20:44:45 here, did he have an opportunity to speak, he would
20:44:47 have had an opportunity to notice, but technically, we
20:44:51 do have two provisions in our code, up with of which
20:44:54 was meaning that he complied with receiving
20:44:58 information from the property appraiser's office but
20:45:00 the 250 feet requirement has not been met, as part of
20:45:03 the record, and I will leave it to council to decide

20:45:07 if they want to go forward but it could create a
20:45:10 problem later on down the line.
20:45:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It seems to me that we have a lot
20:45:15 of public participation in this.
20:45:17 And I would like to move forward, if we could.
20:45:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just deal with it?
20:45:27 And you have rebuttal time.
20:45:29 We haven't really dealt with the legal question but
20:45:31 we'll just move forward with rebuttal and then go from
20:45:34 there.
20:45:34 >>> Okay.
20:45:35 Unless you folks are very, very courageous, I don't
20:45:38 think that you would approve this.
20:45:42 And put these people, my neighbors at some point.
20:45:51 I'm not going to argue any further my case.
20:45:55 I think I stated a legitimate reason to have it
20:46:01 rezoned.
20:46:03 I think they have -- everyone has personal issues
20:46:08 regarding the home and so forth.
20:46:10 And I respect that.
20:46:13 So I rest my case at this point.
20:46:15 And I'll leave it in your hands.

20:46:17 Thank you.
20:46:20 >> I don't know if anybody has questions.
20:46:23 >> He didn't have to come today.
20:46:29 Any questions?
20:46:31 A couple questions.
20:46:32 One of the letters sent from the nipper family
20:46:36 indicate they are concerned about a rental.
20:46:38 Actually sort of a question to staff.
20:46:41 Either way, under the Euclidean zoning, RS-60, or
20:46:47 RS-50, a rental is part of those?
20:46:50 >>> Could I speak real quick?
20:46:54 These are two family houses with one family in the
20:46:56 house.
20:46:57 >> I just want to make sure.
20:46:59 I don't think -- I don't think anybody would be
20:47:01 allowed to regardless of what your intent can
20:47:03 speak to your intent.
20:47:04 It sounds like you didn't intend on doing that, right?
20:47:07 >>> No.
20:47:07 I think the gentleman misunderstood when he made that
20:47:10 statement.
20:47:15 >>> We can in no way restrict him from having the

20:47:20 units as rental units.
20:47:21 >> No, the obligation said it would be split as
20:47:23 rental, like a unit downstairs and a unit upstairs.
20:47:26 >>> I have not heard anything of the sort and that
20:47:28 would not comply with the standards, so that would not
20:47:30 be able to be done legally.
20:47:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.
20:47:34 One other question.
20:47:36 Grand oak.
20:47:37 Mary?
20:47:38 >>> Mary Daniels Bryce, land development.
20:47:47 I have been sworn.
20:47:47 One is on the north section. Property and the other
20:47:49 is on the south section of the property.
20:47:53 We did not have a site plan to review because of the
20:47:56 Euclidean zoning district.
20:47:57 I did do cautionary comments regarding the tree, the
20:48:01 grand tree.
20:48:03 Parks and recreation does normally review for that.
20:48:06 However, based on what I perceived on the monitor, the
20:48:12 driveway for the one structure would not be allowed to
20:48:15 be placed where he was intending to place it.

20:48:18 It does appear that otherwise the protective radius
20:48:22 would be met for the trees.
20:48:24 Now, on the south tree, the root flare of the tree
20:48:28 does protrude north, and he may have to shift his
20:48:33 structure, and possibly do a pier and lintel
20:48:37 construction at that point to accommodate the tree.
20:48:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't have any other questions.
20:48:42 Council, there's a motion and second to close.
20:48:44 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
20:48:46 Any opposed?
20:48:49 I'll entertain a motion.
20:48:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to deny.
20:48:52 >> Second.
20:49:00 >> He doesn't have -- the recommendation of the city,
20:49:04 and it's inconsistent with the policy B, 3.3, that
20:49:11 residential development shall be minimally disrupted
20:49:14 to adjacent areas.
20:49:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: B-3.3 of the comprehensive plan.
20:49:23 Any on the questions or comments?
20:49:26 There's a motion and a second to deny.
20:49:28 All in favor of the motion?
20:49:30 Any opposed?

20:49:31 Motion passed unanimously.
20:49:33 The petition is denied.
20:49:38 Okay.
20:49:38 Any other business?
20:49:40 A motion to receive and file.
20:49:43 >>: So moved.
20:49:44 >> Second.
20:49:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion to receive and file.
20:49:47 (Motion carried)
20:49:50 Mrs. Saul-Sena.
20:49:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I had an opportunity to chat with
20:49:53 Mr. Stair before tonight's hearing about what our
20:49:57 rules are for urban design and parking on the bottom
20:50:02 floor.
20:50:02 And we need to upgrade our rules so that as downtown
20:50:09 development occurs we can make sure that the whole
20:50:11 bottom floor of something isn't just related to
20:50:13 parking.
20:50:14 And so I would like to make a motion that council work
20:50:19 with Mr. Stair as part of our chapter 27, improvements
20:50:29 that happen at six month to minimize the impact of
20:50:32 parking on the bottom floors of downtown structures.

20:50:38 So I guess we'll work with him and come up with some
20:50:40 better language.
20:50:41 But what we have now is just -- if you go to the block
20:50:45 next to the slide the entire bottom floor of the
20:50:48 parking -- floor has parking and it not good.
20:50:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Can I make a recommendation, rather
20:50:52 than engage council in something administrative to
20:50:57 ask -- or ask the administration to come back with
20:51:00 recommendations after a period of time to address us
20:51:02 with particular concerns?
20:51:03 >>> Thank you.
20:51:04 >> You would like it to be in the next round?
20:51:11 >> I would like to the be in the next round.
20:51:12 Thank you.
20:51:13 That's a better proposal.
20:51:14 My motion would be to request that Mr. Stair come back
20:51:17 to council with some proposals to bet area dress
20:51:20 limiting parking on the bottom floor of downtown.
20:51:23 >> There's a motion?
20:51:25 >> (off microphone)
20:51:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Your microphone.
20:51:41 >>MARY MULHERN: Sorry, it's on.

20:51:43 I'm just not talking loudly.
20:51:46 >> Friendly amendment?
20:51:48 Is that accepted?
20:51:49 >> Yes.
20:51:49 I'm okay with other things other than grass because I
20:51:51 think in an urban setting grass isn't necessarily what
20:51:53 we want but it might be.
20:51:54 >> Well, we need to find open space as far as I can
20:52:00 tell is sidewalks.
20:52:01 >> That's not enough.
20:52:05 >> Well, let's have him research it.
20:52:08 >> Okay.
20:52:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mrs. Saul-Sena, motion, seconded by
20:52:12 Mrs. Mulhern.
20:52:13 Motion speaks for itself.
20:52:14 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
20:52:15 Any opposed?
20:52:16 >> Automatic garages.
20:52:20 >> Sounds like we might be heading in that direction.
20:52:22 Anything else for the evening?
20:52:25 Not hearing any, we are adjourned.
20:55:52 (Meeting adjourned)

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