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Tampa City Council
Thursday, March 20, 2008
9:00 a.m. session

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09:09:17 [Sounding gavel]
09:09:33 >>CHAIRMAN GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called
09:09:33 to order.
09:09:34 The chair will yield to Mr. Charlie Miranda.
09:09:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
09:09:38 It's indeed a pleasure to introduce a dear friend of
09:09:41 our own, detective Don Miller, to provide the
09:09:44 invocation today.
09:09:45 But first let me tell you a little about her.

09:09:48 She is a member of the victorious life church of
09:09:54 Wesley chapel.
09:09:55 She started out a prayer group in her church but
09:09:57 thought she could do more so she's thought of adopting
09:10:03 governmental leaders.
09:10:03 Now that's a big task in itself.
09:10:05 She knew we needed prayer.
09:10:08 Today she prayed for over 160 governmental officials.
09:10:13 She would even write to them and let them know she's
09:10:19 still praying for them.
09:10:20 She's also the day prayer person for Pasco County
09:10:23 which is an honor in itself.
09:10:25 She is known as a prayer warrior.
09:10:29 Please welcome Carol Resio to do our morning prayer.
09:10:42 Please stand and remain standing for the pledge of
09:10:45 allegiance.
09:10:48 >> If my people, who uphold by my name, shall humble
09:10:56 themselves, pray, seek and praise, and require of
09:10:59 necessity of my face, then will I hear from heaven,
09:11:04 forgive their sin and heal their land.
09:11:09 Let every person be loyally subject to the governing
09:11:13 civil authority, for there is no authority except from

09:11:16 God by his permission, his sanction and those that
09:11:21 exist do so by God's appointment.
09:11:24 First of all, then, I admonish and urge that petition,
09:11:28 prayers, intersection, and Thanksgiving be offered on
09:11:32 behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in
09:11:38 position of authority or high responsibility, that
09:11:42 outwardly we may pass a quiet and undisturbed life and
09:11:46 inwardly a peaceable one in all godliness and
09:11:50 reverence and seriousness in every area, for such
09:11:55 praying is good and right and is pleasing and
09:11:59 acceptable to God.
09:12:01 Father God, it is an honor and privilege to call you
09:12:04 father.
09:12:05 Father, I thank you, for this is a day that you made
09:12:08 and have given us all of the grace to wake up and
09:12:11 rejoice in your holy name.
09:12:14 Father, I thank you that in a one is here by their
09:12:20 saying yes, Lord, but by your appointment you have
09:12:23 divinely scheduled each one here to glorify your name
09:12:26 because you already see the potential and the gift of
09:12:30 every person in this room, just like a child doesn't
09:12:33 know before he goes to school he can read and write

09:12:36 and add and subtract, everyone here doesn't realize
09:12:41 the gift yet to come out in them.
09:12:43 Father, I lift each one here and I pray that you bless
09:12:46 them spiritually, physically, emotionally, mentally
09:12:49 and financially, over and above their expectations.
09:12:52 Bless them mightily, Lord.
09:12:55 And father, I pray that each one is given a heart
09:12:58 here, Lord, to see your face and let no thresh be
09:13:03 glorified.
09:13:04 Father, I pray, Lord, that envy and jealousy and greed
09:13:07 and any wicked deception be removed.
09:13:11 Father, that the motives of every heart be pure before
09:13:15 your eyes.
09:13:17 Father, I pray that you expand the territory of every
09:13:21 heart in this room so that they will be able to see
09:13:24 and hear your voice, as you expand the heart of others
09:13:29 in which you bless them through.
09:13:32 I pray, father God, for pride to be removed in this
09:13:36 room.
09:13:36 I pray, father God, that your will be done on earth as
09:13:40 it is in heaven as we seek your face and as we seek
09:13:45 forgiveness for the times we have walked in

09:13:47 self-centeredness, when we look to you for help, with
09:13:54 all heart, soul and strength.
09:13:56 Father, I pray that you keep your hand upon every
09:13:58 single person in this room like a horse with blinders
09:14:02 that you show them which way to go.
09:14:04 Let their consciouses be pure, father God.
09:14:09 And, Lord, let their actions choose right instead of
09:14:12 wrong.
09:14:13 Let each person here feel safe and confidence in man,
09:14:23 they won't see good -- that they will see good when it
09:14:27 comes.
09:14:27 And I pray you keep every person here safe from evil.
09:14:32 Put a father ring of protection around the police and
09:14:35 fire department and the people that work with the
09:14:38 first aide.
09:14:39 Father, I also pray that decisions are not made,
09:14:41 father God, from self-centeredness but every decision
09:14:44 in this room be made by you so that, Lord, there will
09:14:49 be a demonstration of the vision that you gave them
09:14:51 will not be blurred by the cares of the day.
09:14:55 And father, the only fear that everyone walks in, I
09:15:00 pray, will be the fear of not walking in the fear of

09:15:03 you.
09:15:04 Bless each one here, Lord.
09:15:06 Bless them, because you said happy is he or she who
09:15:09 puts their trust in you, she will not be put to shame
09:15:12 and she will not be disappointed.
09:15:14 So father, we commit this meeting to you.
09:15:16 We committee every heart to you.
09:15:18 For those that don't know you or who come here weary
09:15:22 and tired and exhausted, I pray that you put the
09:15:27 weight upon you because you said you will refreshen
09:15:30 their spirit, refreshen their heart, and if anybody
09:15:33 has come here heavy laden because of the cares of the
09:15:36 day and everything that you expected from them, Lord,
09:15:39 give them the grace, Lord, to have it uplifted to you,
09:15:43 because, Lord, only you can make the crooked straight,
09:15:48 we give you all the praise and honor and glory and we
09:15:51 ask Lord that you bless this meeting, but not only
09:15:53 this meeting, Lord, but the City of Tampa.
09:15:55 Father, remove all wickedness.
09:15:57 Father, you see what goes on in secret.
09:16:01 And we are committing the secret of Tampa to you,
09:16:03 father, so that you can build the city, because you

09:16:07 said, for those that try to build the city, if it's
09:16:09 not done with the Lord, so father we give you full
09:16:15 charge of the City of Tampa and every worker you have
09:16:17 chosen to be in authority and we thank you for
09:16:20 blessing each one because this is your will.
09:16:23 In Jesus name.
09:16:24 Amen.
09:16:26 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:16:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman.
09:16:46 Thank you.
09:16:50 Ma'am?
09:16:51 I was just going to say that the organization for
09:16:54 community and justice has created a pamphlet for
09:16:57 prayer in public places that's available to all the
09:16:59 council members to share with everybody who comes
09:17:02 before us to provide prayers that talk about what's
09:17:06 appropriate in a pluralistic society.
09:17:08 Thank you.
09:17:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Before we go any further I would like
09:17:11 to extend our sympathies to Mr. Steve Michelini whose
09:17:14 father passed.
09:17:17 So to let you know their family is in our prayers, and

09:17:22 whatever we can do to ease the pain let us know.
09:17:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:17:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:17:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:17:31 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:17:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:17:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:17:35 >>GWEN MILLER: At this time we have a presentation,
09:17:37 Officer of the Month.
09:17:38 Reverend Scott.
09:17:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Good morning.
09:17:49 Thank you, Madam Chair and to City Council, members
09:17:51 this morning.
09:17:52 It's my pleasure as always, every month, to come and
09:17:55 introduce the Officer of the Month.
09:17:59 And today we have the officer who has been selected by
09:18:05 the chief so I am going to ask the chief at this time
09:18:08 to come and give the BIO, and then I will come back
09:18:13 and make other presentations.
09:18:15 Chief.
09:18:19 >> Thank you.
09:18:21 Council, we appreciate this opportunity to recognize

09:18:36 the Officer of the Month, and we appreciate the fact
09:18:39 that you provide that opportunity.
09:18:43 I take it there's a police officer with the Tampa
09:18:47 Police Department, one of our quad officers which as I
09:18:51 said in the past he does street level narcotics work
09:18:53 in plain clothes. In fact I think this is the first
09:18:57 time I have ever seen him in uniform.
09:19:00 And that is of course a particularly difficult job.
09:19:03 And Seltzer excels in it.
09:19:08 But we are recognizing him in particular for one
09:19:12 particular incident that he was doing.
09:19:14 We have been working in the North Boulevard homes
09:19:17 area, some drug sales.
09:19:20 It's been a priority of the police department for
09:19:22 about the last six months.
09:19:25 There's vestiges of old organizations in that area,
09:19:29 and we wanted to root them out to make them better for
09:19:32 the people who live there.
09:19:34 And Seltzer has been one of the leading champions for
09:19:37 the police department, and in our efforts to reduce
09:19:40 the drug sales, particularly the street level drug
09:19:43 sales.

09:19:43 Street level officer like Selser generally buys and
09:19:47 sells and confiscates small quantities because he's
09:19:54 working the guys on the street corner that's trying
09:19:56 to, you know, sell his drugs to people go by, not
09:20:01 normally our mid-level people who deal in multiple
09:20:04 ounces.
09:20:04 But in this case he knew of a particular drug dealer
09:20:07 that was selling, and it was very difficult to get in
09:20:10 with this drug dealer.
09:20:12 So finally he found an informant to introduce him, and
09:20:15 part of his undercover guise, well, I'll skip that
09:20:22 because that's a little bit of a technique that he may
09:20:24 want to use it again.
09:20:27 [ Laughter ]
09:20:28 But he used a very unique way to approach this guy,
09:20:31 because dealers are pretty cagey folks.
09:20:35 They don't lick to sell to people they don't know.
09:20:37 So he managed to pull off what was a very unique rouge
09:20:41 to sell the drugs, did an immediate search warrant
09:20:45 from the house, confiscated over a half a KILO of
09:20:49 crack cocaine, which was destined for the streets of
09:20:52 just that area.

09:20:54 So that is why we are recognizing him here today.
09:20:57 He has done a lot of work in West Tampa area, and in
09:21:02 fact I guess it was a couple of years ago he was
09:21:05 seriously injured working that area for the police
09:21:08 department.
09:21:10 He got into over a drug deal, a very minor incident,
09:21:16 started off that way, but turned into a significant
09:21:20 resist.
09:21:21 His jaw was dislocated.
09:21:22 His hand was broken.
09:21:24 And he received many bumps and bruises in addition to
09:21:28 that.
09:21:28 And he's right back there, as you can see, doing the
09:21:31 same job again, taking the same risks to make those
09:21:36 folks that live in that area safe.
09:21:38 And the only thing I would like to kind of say in
09:21:41 conclusion, there's a lot of his quad members out here
09:21:44 in the audience.
09:21:45 They are all in plain clothes.
09:21:47 And Selser let me know if you thought they were here
09:21:51 to support him, he says that's really not it.
09:21:53 They just want to see what kind of food coupons he

09:21:56 gets so maybe they can share it with him.
09:21:59 So we are very proud of Seltzer.
09:22:04 He's done a great job.
09:22:05 He's surely deserving of this recognition.
09:22:09 [ Applause ]
09:22:10 >> The Chief has given us the background on the
09:22:22 officer, and we have an opportunity to present a
09:22:25 plaque on your behalf to recognize the Officer of the
09:22:27 Month, those who are doing an outstanding job and
09:22:31 every day putting their lives on the line for this
09:22:34 community, for us, to provide protection and safety
09:22:37 for all of us, for our citizens here in the Tampa Bay
09:22:40 area.
09:22:41 And so officer picket, I would like to present to you
09:22:45 this commendation presented to you with all of the BIO
09:22:50 outline, and drug activity, including getting the cab
09:22:56 driver and all of that.
09:22:57 So thank you very much for what you are doing and know
09:22:59 that we support you.
09:23:02 And you are very much in our prayers so we want to
09:23:04 present you on behalf of the Tampa City Council.
09:23:09 We have other gifts that we are going to present with

09:23:11 that.
09:23:14 This is a $100 gift certificate to Charlie's steak
09:23:20 house.
09:23:20 I have been there on several occasions and they have
09:23:22 one of the best steaks in the area so use it wisely.
09:23:30 And if you are working and can't get off and need
09:23:33 somebody to go in your place, just let me know, okay?
09:23:37 >>> Danny Lewis from Bill Currie Ford.
09:23:43 Officer Pickett, now you know you can come to work on
09:23:49 time with this nice watch compliments of Bill Currie
09:23:53 Ford.
09:23:54 Thank you.
09:23:57 >>> Tom Wagner on behalf of the Florida Aquarium.
09:24:01 I want to thank you for the fine work you are doing
09:24:03 helping to keep our community safe, the family of four
09:24:10 to come to the Florida Aquarium.
09:24:12 Thank you.
09:24:12 >>> Craig Hugh, Tampa Lowry Park Zoo, we hope with
09:24:17 compliments you and your family will enjoy some time
09:24:20 at the zoo.
09:24:21 >>> Congratulations.
09:24:27 Steve Stickley representing Stepp's towing on behalf

09:24:30 of Jim and Judy Stepp we would like to present this
09:24:33 statute -- statue to you for a job well done, also a
09:24:37 gift certificate to Lee Roy Selmon.
09:24:44 >>> Steve Michelini here on behalf of a couple of
09:24:47 different folks who would like to honor you.
09:24:49 One of them is Bryn Allen studios and they would like
09:24:52 to provide you with a $100 gift certificate, to have
09:24:55 your family portraits done.
09:24:56 That's not a mug shot.
09:24:59 On behalf of David laxer and Bern's steak house, they
09:25:03 would like to provide you with a $100 gift certificate
09:25:06 so you can go enjoy that.
09:25:08 On behalf of the Hillsborough County towing
09:25:10 association we are providing you with a gift
09:25:12 certificate for $50 to your choice, Carabbas, Outback,
09:25:17 Lee Roy Selmon's, so you can enjoy that one.
09:25:19 On behalf of rigatoni's restaurant we have a nice
09:25:23 T-shirt for you.
09:25:25 I'm not sure you can wear that incognito but you can
09:25:29 try.
09:25:30 And there's a $50 gift certificate that goes along
09:25:32 with that.

09:25:33 I have to warn you there were some guys back there
09:25:35 taking notes upon every gift and making a list of all
09:25:40 these things.
09:25:40 And I think they are going to try to get stuff.
09:25:47 Some of them are made out in your name so you can't
09:25:49 get those.
09:25:50 Bern's is in your name so they can't take that one and
09:25:53 they can't take Bryn Allen but rigatoni's and Outback
09:25:57 are up for grabs.
09:26:01 >> I would like to thank have been very much.
09:26:07 It's nice to be recognized.
09:26:11 You know, the personal satisfaction of doing this work
09:26:13 is enough, and this is extra, and it's very much
09:26:16 appreciated.
09:26:18 I couldn't do it.
09:26:19 I have got a great squad.
09:26:20 I'm good friends with everybody on my squad.
09:26:24 Probably most importantly my supervisor.
09:26:28 I have been officer for almost 14 years.
09:26:31 And my supervisor is the best one I have ever worked
09:26:35 for.
09:26:37 Well, I'll put it like this.

09:26:39 In most of the foot chases we're in, he's with us.
09:26:42 Car chases, he's typically ahead of us.
09:26:46 And he trusts us.
09:26:49 He uses common sense, and stuff like this wouldn't be
09:26:54 possible if he didn't trust us to do the right thing.
09:26:57 And he does.
09:26:59 And he's a heck of a leader.
09:27:02 So I want to thank him.
09:27:08 [ Applause ]
09:27:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That concludes my presentation.
09:27:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:27:17 Now we have another commendation to be presented by
09:27:22 Joe Caetano.
09:27:25 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: We are waiting for Mr. Reed who
09:27:29 is the athletic director.
09:27:31 >>GWEN MILLER: When he comings let us know.
09:27:33 We now go to approval of the agenda.
09:27:36 Mr. Shelby.
09:27:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Good morning, Madam Chair, members of
09:27:43 City Council.
09:27:44 We have quite an extensive agenda, changes to the
09:27:47 agenda.

09:27:48 We'll try to sort through these to make it as clear as
09:27:52 possible.
09:27:54 For the first item, there's a request from Karen Palus
09:27:58 the director of parks and recreation to schedule a 30
09:28:01 minute workshop on April 24 to present the City of
09:28:03 Tampa tree canopy ecological analysis.
09:28:07 I have not heard back from her whether she wants
09:28:10 public input but that can be decided and brought to
09:28:13 council at that time.
09:28:14 On the 24th.
09:28:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Need a motion.
09:28:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
09:28:18 >> Second.
09:28:18 (Motion carried).
09:28:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Going to the 24th, council, you
09:28:24 have a 9:00 workshop on responsible employer
09:28:28 ordinance, 9:30 on the Tampa comp plan, an hour and a
09:28:31 half later 9:00 you have the mass transit discussion
09:28:35 led by the chief executive officer.
09:28:39 What time did you want to schedule this item for and
09:28:42 for how long?
09:28:44 The responsible employer ordinance.

09:28:48 I don't know how long that would take.
09:28:50 And the Tampa comp plan would be of significance,
09:28:55 council, because it does have to be transmitted.
09:28:58 >>GWEN MILLER: The Tampa comprehensive plan --
09:29:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Would you want to make this item
09:29:08 10:30 then?
09:29:10 10:30 for the parks issue of the tree canopy.
09:29:14 Thank you, council.
09:29:15 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
09:29:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, solicitations on the
09:29:22 right-of-way received by the city clerk's office.
09:29:24 It will require that the legal department prepare a
09:29:27 resolution for the solicitation and schedule it on the
09:29:31 City Council agenda for April 3rd.
09:29:32 And I believe council requires a motion to do that, is
09:29:36 my understanding.
09:29:38 >> So moved.
09:29:39 >> Second.
09:29:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
09:29:42 (Motion carried).
09:29:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Substitution of agenda items,
09:29:47 council, there was a typographical error on 113.

09:29:52 I have a substitution and I am going to provide that
09:29:54 to the clerk.
09:29:55 And members of council.
09:29:56 It just one let theory was left off.
09:29:58 That would be a substitute.
09:30:06 Item 123, there's going to be a substitute to the
09:30:09 revision of chapter 27.
09:30:11 As well on item 124 as well as item 125.
09:30:16 Item 122 on the agenda is a clean-up, and that would
09:30:20 be asked to be taken last, because after those other
09:30:25 three are passed, then item 122 is the clean-up and
09:30:31 I'll make that request at that time.
09:30:33 With regard to continuance or removal of items, there
09:30:36 has been a request, Julia Cole has requested that item
09:30:40 98 be continued to April 17th of '08.
09:30:45 I think that's councilman Miranda's subject.
09:30:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have no problem with that.
09:30:52 >> So to continue that issue.
09:30:58 >> So moved.
09:31:00 >> Second.
09:31:00 (Motion carried).
09:31:01 >> You also received a request on 104 asking the

09:31:05 billboard discussion be requested to April 17th as
09:31:08 well, please.
09:31:08 >> So moved.
09:31:09 >> Second.
09:31:10 (Motion carried).
09:31:10 >> Item 127 will be taken up on the request to
09:31:15 continue for closure of public hearing.
09:31:17 Item 132, that will have to be removed from the
09:31:21 agenda.
09:31:23 Item 133, an appeal hearing, that will come later, a
09:31:28 request from petitioner for a continuance.
09:31:30 And now we go to other changes to the agenda.
09:31:36 And we will begin with item 41, which is the
09:31:42 comprehensive annual financial report.
09:31:44 There has been a request to the chair by the
09:31:46 administration to move up to 10:00 time certain to
09:31:50 allow that presentation to be made.
09:31:52 So if that's council's pleasure, that could be done by
09:31:57 motion if council wishes.
09:32:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion?
09:32:01 >> So moved.
09:32:03 >> Second.

09:32:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 10:00.
09:32:06 (Motion carried).
09:32:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Due to scheduling, particularly
09:32:11 council member Mulhern has requested by memorandum to
09:32:14 move the following items to the beginning of staff
09:32:17 report, unfinished business.
09:32:19 Item 106, once a week garbage collection.
09:32:22 Item 107, merger of the clean city provision with the
09:32:25 solid waste.
09:32:26 Item 110, the hiring of the budget analyst.
09:32:29 And items 114 and 115 which are under unfinished
09:32:34 business because of rule 4-C of the need at a closed
09:32:37 public hearing to have a full council, or council vote
09:32:41 on those matters.
09:32:43 Also, there's been a request, Mr. Smith has requested
09:32:48 item 109 the TECO franchise discussion, if that can
09:32:51 also be moved up earlier in the process as well.
09:32:56 So with all those, is it council's desire to have
09:32:59 those items taken in that order?
09:33:02 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
09:33:03 (Motion carried).
09:33:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With regards to items removed from

09:33:09 the committee report for consent agenda for
09:33:12 discussion, item number 8 was a request by council
09:33:16 member Mulhern. and that issue is regarding the Drew
09:33:21 Park redevelopment fund expenditure of $132,000.
09:33:26 Did you want to take those individually or did you
09:33:28 want to take them -- how would you like to proceed?
09:33:34 >>GWEN MILLER: All.
09:33:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item 119 is a request by council
09:33:40 member Scott the budget changes for the CH-2 contract.
09:33:46 >> I move that we pull all the items listed here.
09:33:51 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't need to -- let's see.
09:33:55 Item number 24 I just wanted to say something.
09:33:57 We don't need to pull it out.
09:33:59 We can leave that on the consent agenda.
09:34:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to pull that.
09:34:05 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, you want to pull that?
09:34:06 Okay.
09:34:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, to save time, items 8, 19,
09:34:11 24, 29, 35, 39, and 40 are requests by council members
09:34:18 to have them pulled and have staff present for
09:34:20 discussion as unfinished business.
09:34:24 >> Second.

09:34:25 (Motion carried).
09:34:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Again there are certain things on
09:34:30 time certain, just added one for 10:00 for the
09:34:32 comprehensive financial -- annual financial report.
09:34:39 If there are any other changes, I would ask a motion
09:34:41 for the agenda as amended.
09:34:44 >> So moved.
09:34:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Madam Chair, I know we are
09:34:47 discussing the movement of these items to the front of
09:34:49 the agenda.
09:34:54 With all respects to the individuals being here for a
09:34:56 long, long period of time and they are needed back
09:34:58 where they come from at the zoo, I'm wondering before
09:35:01 we start those we can do 11 and 15 prior to all of
09:35:07 this that's going to be brought up.
09:35:10 >>GWEN MILLER: It was brought to my attention by the
09:35:12 clerk that 126 -- is it 126?
09:35:21 Would like to move item 126 up to.
09:35:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, that's set for 10 a.m.
09:35:33 Would you like to do that at 10 a.m. after the report
09:35:43 or before the report?
09:35:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other changes?

09:35:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to accept all the changes.
09:35:51 >> Second.
09:35:52 (Motion carried).
09:35:53 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a commendation.
09:35:56 Mr. Caetano.
09:35:59 Young men, stop.
09:36:36 Come up front and come around the podium.
09:36:38 Come up around the podium.
09:36:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Circle around your coach in a half
09:37:08 moon.
09:37:10 Two rows and a half moon.
09:37:19 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Today we are going to present a
09:37:20 commendation to the Wharton high school soccer team,
09:37:25 who won the class 5-A state championship.
09:37:30 I know Mr. Dingfelder said he was a sweeper.
09:37:32 I don't know what he means by a sweeper.
09:37:35 I also played semi-pro soccer back in the 50s.
09:37:39 I was a halfback.
09:37:40 But it's an interesting sport.
09:37:42 I played against some guy that was 40-something years
09:37:45 old from Ireland, and I was 18 or 19, and I couldn't
09:37:49 keep up with him.

09:37:50 And I was in good shape.
09:37:51 Never smoked, never drank, except maybe Friday nights.
09:37:56 But, anyway, Steve wants to say one word about Wharton
09:38:03 high school.
09:38:03 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I had a second.
09:38:05 Paul Wharton is my father-in-law and he can't make it
09:38:10 down here today. He's 93 years old.
09:38:12 He will be 94 in May.
09:38:14 He wanted to send his best wishes to the team and
09:38:16 congratulations on their achievement.
09:38:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And Steve, we send our best wishes
09:38:21 to Mr. Wharton.
09:38:22 He's a great guy, a neighbor of mine and really a
09:38:26 superman.
09:38:27 >>> Tampa City Council commendation presented to
09:38:32 Wharton high school boys varsity team for their hard
09:38:36 work and determination led by head coach Scott Ware,
09:38:40 the boys varsity soccer team accomplished a state 5-A
09:38:46 championship.
09:38:47 We the City Council congratulate you on your
09:38:50 achievements.
09:38:52 Thank you, sir.

09:38:54 [ Applause ]
09:38:54 >>> We thank you, first of all.
09:39:00 My name is Mike, the athletic director.
09:39:05 Coach Wharton has been around for a number of years.
09:39:09 I actually coached the guys for nine years and then I
09:39:12 as the athletic director turned it over.
09:39:17 He's stuck in traffic.
09:39:18 I wanted to mention this at a school board meeting I
09:39:22 attended.
09:39:23 The boys did a wonderful job, played a wonderful game,
09:39:25 they deserved to win from the get-go but more so than
09:39:28 that they represented Hillsborough County schools,
09:39:30 represented the city very well down in Ft. Lauderdale,
09:39:32 acted right, behaved right, and we had a lot of
09:39:36 compliments on the way we behaved and acted.
09:39:38 Not only -- they were a complete team.
09:39:41 I also want to mention a couple players and coaches.
09:39:47 Not only did we win the state.
09:39:48 Not only did we act right, academically, we are
09:39:52 students first, we have the valedictorian for our
09:39:55 student class and we also have our third and junior
09:40:00 class on our team so we are a complete package as far

09:40:02 as athletically, academically and behaviorwise.
09:40:06 I just want that to be known.
09:40:08 This is coach Scott Ware, our coach.
09:40:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you like to say something?
09:40:14 >> Thank you for the opportunity to come in here
09:40:16 today. This is a big honor for us.
09:40:17 We had a great season obviously.
09:40:20 The boys, like athletic director ROANS said, we were
09:40:28 very proud how they handled themselves.
09:40:32 Again just to thank you, the guys for coming down
09:40:35 here, and hope we can do it again next year.
09:40:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Congratulations.
09:40:48 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: It's very important that you have
09:40:49 a good leader, because soccer is a tough sport.
09:40:53 I don't know, is it 45?
09:40:58 >>> 45 in high school.
09:41:00 >> And you have to be in shape.
09:41:02 That's the important thing.
09:41:03 We thank you very much and we are very proud of you.
09:41:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you all.
09:41:15 >>GWEN MILLER: We now go to public comments.
09:41:38 The public may speak on any item anything but public

09:41:42 hearings.
09:41:42 Anyone would like to speak can come up and speak, any
09:41:46 matter except for a public hearing.
09:41:50 >> Susan long.
09:41:57 I live at 921 east broad street.
09:42:03 One year ago mental health care, ink, received a grant
09:42:06 from HUD and Hillsborough County to provide a drop-in
09:42:09 center for mentally ill and addicted homeless.
09:42:11 The center is located at 6220 north Nebraska, a place
09:42:16 for homeless individuals with behavioral disorder and
09:42:19 substance abuse problems can drop in, have two meals a
09:42:21 day, breakfast and lunch, take showers, do laundry,
09:42:26 individual therapy, and receive vocational and housing
09:42:29 assistance.
09:42:29 This program draws homeless from all over the county,
09:42:32 and in some instances from outside the county.
09:42:36 As it is a drop-in center homeless go there, hang
09:42:39 around the parking lot, and then disappear into the
09:42:45 neighborhoods to find a place to congregate or sleep.
09:42:47 Result is the police have been called to the location
09:42:53 to break up fights including one where someone at the
09:42:56 drop-in group shouted at anybody who came near, and

09:43:01 defecating on the sidewalks has risen immensely.
09:43:04 One of the things a mental health counselor stated I
09:43:08 have seen a huge increase of schizophrenics wand
09:43:13 Dering the neighborhood lately.
09:43:15 We feel this center does not help the homeless get a
09:43:17 better life.
09:43:24 Only take the homeless person's situation.
09:43:26 These homeless have addiction and mental health
09:43:29 problems.
09:43:30 Yet in a medications are available and no long-term
09:43:32 treatment is available at that location for the
09:43:34 addict.
09:43:37 No consideration is given to the surrounding
09:43:39 neighborhood and the impact of this influx of
09:43:41 homeless, mentally ill and addicted people have on the
09:43:44 local residents and businesses has been very
09:43:47 disastrous.
09:43:47 Old Seminole Heights has worked very hard to clean up
09:43:49 the neighborhood.
09:43:50 For some reason we seem to be the center of social
09:43:52 services available in the city.
09:43:54 We have residential treatment facilities, halfway

09:43:56 houses, counseling centers, we have low income
09:43:59 assistance, sexual predators, housing, drug treatment
09:44:03 centers, and all of these centers are within a one
09:44:08 mile radius.
09:44:09 Most of these services are relatively contained to
09:44:12 make sure people walking by are not harassed and
09:44:15 intimidated by the people utilizing the services.
09:44:18 Drop-in center has undergone years of hard work.
09:44:23 They hang around, fight, intimidate pedestrians and
09:44:27 walk in front of moving vehicles.
09:44:28 They defecate on the sidewalk.
09:44:31 And nightly sleep wherever they wish, inside yards, on
09:44:35 steps in front of businesses, under residents bushes
09:44:39 and in some cases on residents' front porch.
09:44:41 The drop-in center does not help people out of their
09:44:44 quagmire, it enables them.
09:44:46 Mental health care, ink, is in the business of
09:44:49 residential mental health care, and addiction
09:44:52 counseling.
09:44:53 This particular facility -- the county funds this as
09:44:59 one full time senior social worker.
09:45:03 It's reducing our property values and our quality of

09:45:07 life.
09:45:07 So this can make it safer for persons to drive or walk
09:45:11 by their location.
09:45:12 So this facility can help these people.
09:45:18 Until this facility can provide serious treatment for
09:45:22 the mentally ill, until this facility can provide
09:45:24 long-term counseling and/or treatment to addicts and
09:45:30 make it safe for the community to open their doors
09:45:35 again, we would like this model utilized.
09:45:38 Ideally, we would like you and the homeless coalition
09:45:41 to work with us to find a way to help the homeless
09:45:44 without ruining the surrounding neighborhood.
09:45:46 Thank you.
09:45:57 >>> Pete Johnson, 301 Druid hills.
09:46:00 Three items I want to speak on, number one is number 4
09:46:03 on the agenda, the wet zoning.
09:46:06 This has been discussed several times.
09:46:09 It's obvious that the neighborhood did not want this
09:46:12 wet zoning.
09:46:13 Besides that, he have time I watch City Council from
09:46:17 home or review the paperwork, the agenda, wet zoning,
09:46:22 wet zoning, wet zoning, wet zoning, wet zoning, wet

09:46:26 zoning.
09:46:26 Come on, we got way too many wet zoning.
09:46:29 And I love my cocktails.
09:46:31 I start at 4:00.
09:46:32 You all are still working.
09:46:34 The second item is number 36 where Jordan and homes
09:46:40 are going to take over the foreclosures and some of
09:46:43 the legal proceedings for Ernie Mueller and the legal
09:46:48 staff, I think one of the smartest management moves
09:46:52 that we have done.
09:46:53 There is no way one person, and maybe one aide, can
09:46:56 handle the number of foreclosures, the number of
09:46:59 fines, the number of liens.
09:47:03 This is a very good move.
09:47:05 I think it's fabulous.
09:47:07 The third item is number 103 which will come up later.
09:47:11 And it has to do with code and TPD.
09:47:15 I want to show you a picture of a house.
09:47:26 This is one of the houses of ill repute.
09:47:30 This house has been active in drugs and prostitution
09:47:35 for years.
09:47:38 We cannot seem to get it to the abatement board

09:47:40 because of the time period where you have to have
09:47:42 three items happening within a certain amount of time.
09:47:46 Okay?
09:47:46 But I'm sorry, this house is unlivable.
09:47:50 They are still dealing with drugs and prostitution out
09:47:53 of it.
09:47:54 And I requested the city do something about it.
09:47:57 They are scaring the neighborhoods.
09:47:59 Besides that, this is another report on a house on the
09:48:01 same street that for 20 years has been dealing drugs
09:48:04 and prostitution, and we still can't seem to get rid
09:48:10 of it.
09:48:10 The Nuisance Abatement Board has a problem because
09:48:13 it's a homesteaded piece of property.
09:48:15 Regardless whether it's homesteaded or not it is up to
09:48:17 the civic leaders to save our neighborhoods.
09:48:22 This is embarrassing.
09:48:23 And the people that are involved in this neighborhood
09:48:25 are actually scared to leave their home and come and
09:48:30 speak at City Council.
09:48:32 This is bad.
09:48:33 This is really bad.

09:48:35 TPD is doing everything they can.
09:48:37 Code has done everything they can.
09:48:39 We have got to come up with a way, I don't care -- I
09:48:43 was even told to fire bomb it, okay?
09:48:46 But it's that bad.
09:48:48 And these are two houses on the exact same street.
09:48:50 One within just 20 feet of the other.
09:48:55 So please take that into consideration, and when item
09:48:58 103 comes up, I want to be very involved in that.
09:49:03 Thank you.
09:49:06 >>> Good morning.
09:49:10 My name is Carol an Colbert, 161 Cyprus Avenue.
09:49:15 I'm here today to encourage City Council to postpone
09:49:19 deliberation of the TECO franchise agreement till more
09:49:23 information can be gathered around the complexity of
09:49:25 the issue.
09:49:28 I would also let you know that I served for over 12
09:49:32 years with councilwoman Saul-Sena on a task force on
09:49:37 the Davis Island civic association studying the issue
09:49:40 of undergrounding and I want to be clear,
09:49:43 undergrounding is not the issue before you.
09:49:45 The issue, in terms of how we approach the entire

09:49:49 community, is called conversion, and that's the
09:49:54 stumbling block here.
09:49:55 It is absolutely the way to go in raw land,
09:49:58 undergrounding is the way to go in raw land, so we are
09:50:01 not discussing what the right solution is going
09:50:04 forward.
09:50:05 We are talking about how to create a better
09:50:07 environment, a better quality of life, encourage urban
09:50:11 renewal in the areas that already have overhead
09:50:15 delivery systems.
09:50:18 Now in MI my day job, I'm with a company called Nelson
09:50:23 and I serve as platform director delivering strategic
09:50:28 planning services for large portfolios.
09:50:31 We routinely deal with infrastructure investment
09:50:34 decisions relative to the long-term disposition of
09:50:38 properties in large portfolios, who are corporations
09:50:42 such as Microsoft, Bank of America, Kaiser-Permanente,
09:50:44 and they are making the same sorts of decisions that
09:50:48 you are faced with on a daily basis.
09:50:50 What I would encourage you to consider is that the
09:50:57 electric delivery system is not a stand-alone
09:51:00 decision.

09:51:01 An electric delivery system, an overhead system,
09:51:02 competes directly with the tree canopy.
09:51:06 It marches through areas that you have spent millions
09:51:10 of dollars trying to encourage renewal in.
09:51:13 It's not a stand-alone decision.
09:51:15 And by postponing and allowing yourself more time to
09:51:19 consider the ramifications and the interconnectiveness
09:51:24 of this decision, you will make a more solid decision,
09:51:26 and I encourage you as you approach this, and the
09:51:28 length of this decision is not subject to the length
09:51:30 of the franchise agreement itself.
09:51:33 Investments made over the course of this next
09:51:36 franchise agreement will govern what the city can and
09:51:39 cannot do for years and years into the future.
09:51:42 So I encourage you to take time, gather more
09:51:45 information around it, allow analysis to be conducted
09:51:49 on the inner relationships between the water
09:51:52 conservation issues that face this community, urban
09:51:55 renewal issues that face this community, and then
09:51:58 secondarily the delivery of electric power.
09:52:01 Thank you.
09:52:11 >> Good morning.

09:52:11 My name is April Hembee, St. Petersburg, First Avenue
09:52:17 south.
09:52:17 I am employed with the St. Petersburg times newspaper.
09:52:19 And I am here to represent the Tampa Bay publishers
09:52:22 group.
09:52:23 We are here to talk about item number 111, which is
09:52:26 the concerns that you have on the news rack and
09:52:31 publications along city streets.
09:52:33 I want to be sure that the current council knows that
09:52:37 we have worked with the City of Tampa in the past, and
09:52:41 in the year 2000 we began a program when Mayor Greco
09:52:44 was leading the city, and we worked with him
09:52:47 diligently for several years to clean up approximately
09:52:49 40 different locations within the city.
09:52:58 We took photos yesterday, and we have one -- upside
09:53:03 down.
09:53:04 This photo is the northwest corner of Kennedy and
09:53:08 Marian.
09:53:10 These one of the locations that we believe what you
09:53:12 were considering an eyesore.
09:53:14 We can take that and turn that into something like
09:53:17 this.

09:53:19 At no cost to the city.
09:53:22 This is the Verizon building.
09:53:25 This is back in 2001.
09:53:27 We took all of those boxes in the upper picture and
09:53:31 combined them into what we call a modular unit.
09:53:33 The only thing that we ask from the city to help us do
09:53:36 this is to get us permission to bolt these into the
09:53:39 ground.
09:53:40 And we can do the rest.
09:53:41 And we would be happy to help you.
09:53:44 We want to help.
09:53:45 We don't want any problems with the city.
09:53:47 We want to be a friendly neighbor and hope that we can
09:53:51 work with Mayor Iorio's group as well.
09:54:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What I would like to do when we get
09:54:04 to 111, April and the associate there, I'm really
09:54:09 thrilled that you all came down, because I didn't know
09:54:12 who put up the modular boxes originally.
09:54:15 And I know that things were getting worse, and
09:54:18 sometimes when it gets windy you see these things
09:54:20 topple over, you know, and we had folks in the
09:54:23 community complain about them.

09:54:25 But I'm really glad that there's a solution.
09:54:27 Because the brown modular ones are fantastic.
09:54:31 They fit in with the community in every way.
09:54:34 So when I get to 111, what I would like to do is refer
09:54:38 to the public works because I think that's who you
09:54:40 were working with originally, seven years ago, and ask
09:54:44 them to get with you, and maybe come back in four or
09:54:49 five months and see what kind of progress we have
09:54:51 made.
09:54:52 >>> That would be great.
09:54:53 We appreciate the opportunity.
09:54:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: As some of us know, I remember the
09:54:58 original agreements that was worked out by the
09:55:02 organization and the previous administration.
09:55:05 I thought it was a very good one.
09:55:08 It certainly cleaned up the area immediately to City
09:55:11 Hall where the mayor is at and other locations in
09:55:14 downtown.
09:55:14 Since then, all this has sprung up, I'm sure.
09:55:18 >>> Yes.
09:55:19 >> So therefore it's trying to catch up with what
09:55:21 reality is.

09:55:22 And reality is that we have done a good job to some
09:55:25 point.
09:55:26 However, we couldn't follow up on all of them.
09:55:29 And I think what Mr. Dingfelder said in working with
09:55:31 public works and the administration to get these
09:55:34 things done, I don't think you are going to find any
09:55:36 problems on this side of the fence.
09:55:39 >>> Right.
09:55:39 >> Because it's a public nuisance.
09:55:43 When people come in from out of town, and they see all
09:55:46 these things, thrown around everywhere, it just leaves
09:55:50 a bad taste in somebody's idealism of what the City of
09:55:53 Tampa is really like.
09:55:55 I commend you for what you have done in the past.
09:55:57 I commend your organization for what you are trying to
09:55:59 do for the future.
09:55:59 >>> Thank you very much.
09:56:00 We look forward to working with all of you.
09:56:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a question.
09:56:04 Are we getting revenue currently from all the papers?
09:56:09 Is there any fee that's paid?
09:56:12 >>> It's just a public service.

09:56:13 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Do you have anything to do with
09:56:18 the street vendors who are out in the median strips
09:56:22 and on the roadways?
09:56:25 >>> No.
09:56:26 >> Or are you strictly with the box department?
09:56:30 >>> Are you talking about the Tampa Tribune?
09:56:32 No, sir, not associated with the Tribune.
09:56:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:56:36 Next.
09:56:40 >>> My name is Stephen Dodi, 909 east Holland Avenue
09:56:48 and I'm here concerned about item 129, the wet zoning.
09:56:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You can't do that.
09:56:53 >>GWEN MILLER: You can't talk about that.
09:56:56 You have to wait.
09:56:59 It's too early.
09:56:59 When we get to that item you can come back and speak.
09:57:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Sir, that's a public hearing.
09:57:04 That's when you speak.
09:57:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's going to be later.
09:57:10 John Moyer. 603 South Melville Avenue.
09:57:22 I was going to be talking about agenda item number
09:57:25 113, animal welfare resolution.

09:57:30 I respect your leadership and dedication in making
09:57:32 Tampa a great place to live.
09:57:35 Thank you for the amazing work that you all do.
09:57:38 I'm also taking this opportunity to express my
09:57:40 gratitude for your support of the animal welfare
09:57:43 resolution at the March 6 council meeting. With a
09:57:45 vote in 4-1 in favor I'm hoping that you vote the same
09:57:48 way today now that Mr. Shelby has prepared the Tampa
09:57:51 document.
09:57:52 Although this is a nonbinding resolution with no
09:57:54 fiscal impact, it will raise critical consumer
09:57:57 awareness about the plight of egg-laying hens in
09:58:01 battery cages.
09:58:02 As you already know the majority of Tampa residents do
09:58:04 support the welfare of animals and at least 21,000 are
09:58:08 members of the Humane Society of the United States.
09:58:09 Throughout American history there have been many legal
09:58:12 but inhumane practices that would not be accepted in
09:58:15 society today.
09:58:15 The confinement of egg-laying hens in battery cages is
09:58:19 cruel and inhumane because these animals are unable to
09:58:22 spread their wings and forced to live their entire

09:58:25 life in a space of 67 square inches, less than a
09:58:28 single sheet of letter-size paper.
09:58:30 These birds are also denied any opportunity to engage
09:58:31 in numerous and natural behaviors, things as simple as
09:58:35 walking, but also nesting, dust-bathing, perching and
09:58:37 foraging.
09:58:39 I'm proud to live in a city that is acknowledging the
09:58:41 fact that these animals, which are forced to produce
09:58:43 mass quantities of eggs for human consumption, deserve
09:58:46 a life with a basic level of decency.
09:58:49 Many cities in the nation including four other Florida
09:58:51 cities have unanimously passed this animal protection
09:58:53 resolution.
09:58:55 And I'm happy that Tampa is on the growing list of
09:58:57 communities that take animal welfare seriously.
09:59:00 We pride ourselves as people in a community that seek
09:59:03 justice and root for the underdog.
09:59:06 The underdog in this case just happens to have
09:59:08 feathers.
09:59:08 Like dogs and cats these hens can't speak for
09:59:11 themselves, and nothing will change for these animals
09:59:13 if we don't care.

09:59:15 The only justice they can receive is compassionate
09:59:19 actions on their behalf.
09:59:20 Please pass this nonbinding resolution, a resolution
09:59:23 that raises awareness about the confinement of
09:59:24 egg-laying hens in battery cages, then allow consumers
09:59:31 that purchase eggs to decide whether to buy battery
09:59:36 cage eggs or cage-free eggs.
09:59:37 Thank you for your time and your important
09:59:38 consideration.
09:59:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Madam Chair, I know politically one
09:59:41 thing.
09:59:42 I speak my mind.
09:59:43 And I have nothing to do with the passage or the
09:59:47 denial of this.
09:59:48 However, we are heading in the wrong direction.
09:59:50 The next thing we do after we pass something like
09:59:53 this -- and I understand what the gentleman said -- we
09:59:55 are looking ahead at Florida retailers and there's a
09:59:58 few that are here.
09:59:59 This is a thing between retail and retail.
10:00:02 If we get involved in this, which I'm sure we will,
10:00:05 and I'm sure to tell you that the next one coming up

10:00:08 in the near future will be about stem cells or this or
10:00:11 the other, and by law in the City of Tampa you are not
10:00:14 supposed to have even a chicken in the backyard.
10:00:17 So I'm compassionate about what you said.
10:00:20 But if you want to really do this, you have got to go
10:00:23 out to the people who are putting these birds in cages
10:00:26 in Brooksville and Inverness and all over the state
10:00:29 where they have the chicken production and the turkey
10:00:32 productions and so forth and so on.
10:00:34 But I'm not going to support it under the Florida
10:00:39 retailers, and it names some, and what it's going to
10:00:41 be is that this council voted one way for these
10:00:44 retailers and against the other retailers.
10:00:46 And I'm not in the retail business.
10:00:48 Thank you, Madam Chair.
10:00:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:00:50 Next.
10:00:50 >>> Darin Booth, 14743 Canopy Drive.
10:00:53 I'm here just to encourage you to again to deliberate
10:00:58 on the TECO franchise agreement because again these
10:01:00 are all publics rights-of-way we are talking about and
10:01:04 it's not just a quick fix to solve the process for the

10:01:09 last 50, 100 years, of how we distributed power.
10:01:14 We need to deliberate on how, as the previous woman
10:01:17 spoke, we are going to convert these systems to more
10:01:21 efficient systems in the future.
10:01:23 The future of our city, the future of really our
10:01:26 grandkids' grandkids is what we are deliberating on
10:01:29 today.
10:01:30 And to encourage a lot of thought.
10:01:34 I heard previously the concern how we are going to pay
10:01:39 for this.
10:01:40 Well, everybody that breathes is paying for the
10:01:42 current system, because you have to cut down a tree,
10:01:47 put up an overhead power line in place which means the
10:01:51 house in front of that tree doesn't get shade, which
10:01:54 means it needs more electricity to cool the house in
10:01:57 the summer.
10:01:58 So please I'm just asking us to really research this
10:02:01 properly.
10:02:02 Thank you.
10:02:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:02:04 Would anyone else like to speak?
10:02:06 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Suite 3700 Bank of America Plaza.

10:02:14 And I have an appeal scheduled this morning for item
10:02:17 133, the last item on the agenda.
10:02:20 The record is not complete and we cannot go forward
10:02:23 this morning.
10:02:24 And I would ask that at the 10:00 time if we could
10:02:28 request a continuance at that time.
10:02:29 >>GWEN MILLER: We can at 10:00.
10:02:34 >> When you open that agenda.
10:02:36 >>> April 17th.
10:02:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Madam Chairman, move to open the
10:02:40 hearing first.
10:02:41 >> Second.
10:02:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: (off microphone).
10:02:58 >>> At the time the 10:00 agenda is called I would
10:03:01 request it rather than the end of the session.
10:03:03 >>GWEN MILLER: It is now 10:00.
10:03:05 We are going to go to item 41.
10:03:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is there anyone else that wanted to
10:03:11 speak?
10:03:12 >>GWEN MILLER: No.
10:03:12 I already asked that.
10:03:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you want to take up the 10:00

10:03:16 issue?
10:03:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 41, yes.
10:03:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Before you do.
10:03:20 I think as a courtesy to Mr. Grandoff, to open that
10:03:26 item, continue this so nobody will have to wait
10:03:28 around.
10:03:36 When the public comment is over, I agree with Mr.
10:03:38 Scott and Mr. Miranda.
10:03:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open item 133.
10:03:43 >> Second.
10:03:44 (Motion carried).
10:03:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Now to continue to April 17th?
10:03:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: April 17th at 10 a.m., '08.
10:03:53 >> Second.
10:03:55 (Motion carried).
10:03:56 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Thank you city attorney staff and
10:03:58 city clerk staff.
10:03:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Now Ms. Wise.
10:04:03 Wise ways director of revenue and finance this
10:04:05 morning.
10:04:05 We have item 41.
10:04:06 It is to present the comprehensive annual financial

10:04:10 report.
10:04:10 I would like to thank Lee Huffstutler, our chief
10:04:14 accountant and his staff and the department that had
10:04:17 to work together this year with our new auditor in
10:04:20 earnings and young.
10:04:21 Although they are new auditors to us this year they
10:04:23 have done work with us in prior years.
10:04:34 With that I will present John Picanso, whose office is
10:04:39 across the street, and he will have some
10:04:43 communications for you.
10:04:44 >>> Thank you.
10:04:45 Good morning.
10:04:49 My name is John Picanso, Ernst & Young, a partner with
10:04:56 your audit and I appreciate the opportunity to come
10:04:58 before you today to present results of the audit.
10:05:01 You should have been provided with a document that
10:05:03 looks like this called audit results and communication
10:05:05 and I am going to be speaking from that document and
10:05:08 go over the results of the audit with you today.
10:05:11 Would I would like to do is ask you to turn to page
10:05:15 one of that document.
10:05:17 There's a pictorial display of the audit approach.

10:05:19 We start all the way on the audit plan and then we go
10:05:22 all the way to the far right which is concluding the
10:05:25 audit and that's where we are today, the final
10:05:27 concluding piece of the audit is actually presenting
10:05:30 the results of that audit to the City Council.
10:05:33 Next, if you turn to page 2 of that document, the
10:05:36 summary of what we agreed to do, and what this does is
10:05:38 it summarizes the report that we issued as a result of
10:05:41 our audit, and talking about some of those further on
10:05:45 in my presentation.
10:05:47 If you turn to page 3 next is the areas of emphasis
10:05:50 for the financial statement, accounts and disclosures.
10:05:53 This summarizes the key areas that we looked at in
10:05:56 performing our audit procedures in order to render our
10:05:59 opinion on the city's comprehensive annual financial
10:06:02 report.
10:06:03 I want to pay particular attention to the last item,
10:06:07 compliance with applicable laws, regulations and grant
10:06:11 provisions.
10:06:11 I do want to point out for the fiscal 07 year we did
10:06:14 audit six grant programs for those federal, two of
10:06:18 those state, and we did not have any findings relative

10:06:21 to those grant programs.
10:06:22 For comparative purposes, in the prior year there were
10:06:26 12 findings relative to the grant program.
10:06:28 So there were 12 in the '06 audit and there were zero
10:06:32 findings for the fiscal '07 year.
10:06:35 I wanted to make sure you were all aware of that.
10:06:37 Also, all of those prior year findings have been
10:06:40 adequately addressed by management.
10:06:44 Starting on page 4, the required communications, these
10:06:47 are the matters that auditing standards require us to
10:06:51 communicate to oversight bodies like the City Council.
10:06:53 I am going to go through these.
10:06:54 I am not going to go through each and every one.
10:06:57 I am just going to hit on the key ones and the
10:06:59 important ones and the ones I want to make you aware
10:07:01 of.
10:07:02 Very first item on page 4, the auditor's
10:07:04 responsibility under generally accepted auditing
10:07:06 standards.
10:07:07 Three things that I want to point out here.
10:07:09 First, the financial statements, your CAFR,
10:07:14 responsibility of management.

10:07:15 Secondly the reasonable absolute assurance that the
10:07:19 financial statements are free of material
10:07:24 misstatements.
10:07:24 Third with respect to internal controls we evaluate
10:07:27 internal controls to help us and to enable us to
10:07:29 perform your audit, not to a sure separate opinion on
10:07:33 the internal controls.
10:07:34 We have issued an opinion on the financial statements,
10:07:37 and that was an unqualified or a clean audit opinion.
10:07:41 I also wanted to point out that in our opinion you
10:07:43 will see that the component units discretely present
10:07:47 component units, the Florida Aquarium, and the Tampa
10:07:50 historic streetcar.
10:07:51 Those component units were audited by other auditors.
10:07:55 And in our report we make reference to the other
10:07:58 auditors report on those component units.
10:08:02 Next I am going to ask that you turn to page 5.
10:08:04 A and there's a couple of the required communications.
10:08:07 That I wanted to focus on here.
10:08:09 The very third one, significant audit adjustment,
10:08:13 there were no recorded audit adjustments as a result
10:08:17 of performing our audit.

10:08:19 Next item, there were 12 unrecorded audit differences.
10:08:23 Those differences were determined by management to be
10:08:27 immaterial to the respective opinion units contained
10:08:30 in your CAFR and we concurred those were immaterial to
10:08:37 the financial statement.
10:08:38 Right underneath that with respect to fraud and
10:08:40 illegal acts, we did perform the required procedures
10:08:44 relative to detecting whether or not there was a
10:08:47 material fraud that may have occurred, and based on
10:08:50 the results of those procedures we did not identify
10:08:52 any fraud impropriety, material error, violation of
10:08:57 laws or regulations.
10:08:58 Underneath that, it talks about significant
10:09:02 sufficiencies and material weaknesses and internal
10:09:05 controls.
10:09:05 We did report material weaknesses in the area of
10:09:09 capital asset accounting and reporting and also in the
10:09:11 area of accounting for the TIF revenues in the CRA.
10:09:16 We also issued a significant sufficiency.
10:09:21 We had two other management comments that did not rise
10:09:25 to the level of sufficiency.
10:09:26 Those were in the area of the preparation of the

10:09:28 schedule of expenditures of federal awards and state
10:09:31 financial assistance.
10:09:32 And with the timeliness of reporting on one of your
10:09:36 particular state grant agreements.
10:09:38 Again to put that in perspective and comparing it to
10:09:41 the '06 audit, the '06 audit there were ten management
10:09:45 letter comments.
10:09:46 Of those ten, seven of them have been fully
10:09:48 implemented and addressed by management.
10:09:51 One of them is in the process of being fully
10:09:54 implemented.
10:09:54 And two of them were repeat comments.
10:09:56 The repeat comments were in the area of capital asset
10:09:59 accounting, and preparation of the schedule of
10:10:01 expenditures of federal awards.
10:10:04 The third item from the bottom here, serious
10:10:08 difficulties encountered in dealing with management
10:10:10 when performing the audit.
10:10:12 I did want to point out that there were none and that
10:10:14 we did receive excellent cooperation from Bonnie and
10:10:17 Lee and their staff in performing the audit.
10:10:21 Next I wanted to point out pages 7, 8 and 9.

10:10:25 Those deal with fraud considerations.
10:10:31 These are the procedures that we are required to
10:10:33 perform to dedetecting whether or not there may have
10:10:35 been a material fraud that existed.
10:10:37 As I mentioned previously, we have performed all of
10:10:40 those required procedures, which included inquiries of
10:10:43 management level people and others within your
10:10:45 organization, and again the results of those
10:10:48 procedures did not identify any fraud material error
10:10:51 or irregularity.
10:10:54 Page 10, those are the summary of audit differences.
10:10:57 As I mentioned previously, there are 12 of them here.
10:11:01 These were determined by management to be immaterial
10:11:04 to your financial statements to the respective opinion
10:11:07 units that are presented in your CAFR and we concur
10:11:12 with management decision these were immaterial but we
10:11:16 are required to disclose those to you.
10:11:18 The next several pages deal with looking ahead to next
10:11:20 year and those deal with statements that are upcome,
10:11:24 that they were not effective yet the fiscal '07 year
10:11:28 but in fiscal years they are going to be effective and
10:11:31 I know management is evaluating the impact of all

10:11:33 those they may have on the city.
10:11:36 Lastly, I want to point out the appendices on page 14,
10:11:40 appendix A, this is the table of required
10:11:42 communications with the City Council.
10:11:45 Those list the communications that are required on all
10:11:48 audits and when auditors are required to communicate
10:11:51 those matters to the City Council.
10:11:52 So again that's really for informational purposes.
10:11:56 Appendix B, there's two items there.
10:11:58 Government auditing standards also requires that we
10:12:01 communicate certain matters to the City Council.
10:12:04 The first item on page 15, that's the chart related to
10:12:08 the auditors responsibilities for reporting, and our
10:12:13 responsibility for reporting on internal controls and
10:12:16 compliance with laws and regulation, based on the type
10:12:18 of services that we do provide for the city.
10:12:21 And behind that starting on the page, after page 15,
10:12:24 that is our peer review report.
10:12:27 Our firm like all of the big firms, and those that
10:12:30 serve clients, we are required to undergone audits of
10:12:32 our audit practice, if you will, to make sure that we
10:12:35 are perform our audits in accordance with professional

10:12:38 standards and our firm guidelines.
10:12:40 We are required to communicate to you the report of
10:12:42 the other audit firm on our audit practice.
10:12:45 We did receive a clean or unqualified opinion on that.
10:12:48 Just like we would issue a management relative to our
10:12:52 audit, they did issue a management letter, or a couple
10:12:55 of comments.
10:12:55 We have provided those to you here along with our
10:12:58 response to those comments.
10:12:59 And that concludes my presentation regarding the
10:13:01 results of the audit.
10:13:02 And I just ask if anybody has any questions relative
10:13:05 to the audit or the results of the audit.
10:13:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
10:13:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll defer to counsel if you have
10:13:14 any questions.
10:13:15 Otherwise I just want to comment.
10:13:17 We really appreciate your hard work on this.
10:13:20 And I want to commend Bonnie Wise and Lee and your
10:13:26 respective staffs.
10:13:27 I read through the CAFR.
10:13:30 It's not easy for a non-financial person to understand

10:13:32 all of it.
10:13:34 What I can understand like you say is the difference
10:13:36 between prior years' audit when perhaps there were
10:13:39 some qualified statements and some material problems.
10:13:43 And this year it is a very clean audit.
10:13:46 And I'm thrilled that that's the way it's come out.
10:13:48 I'm not surprised under Ms. Wise's leadership and the
10:13:56 mayor and we appreciate your leadership.
10:13:59 We have internal audits and auditors and that sort of
10:14:02 thing.
10:14:03 And that's a good thing.
10:14:04 But for the public trust, and to fulfill our fiduciary
10:14:11 duties, it's probably very important we have an
10:14:14 outside look at this very comprehensively as you have.
10:14:17 Thank you very much.
10:14:17 I think it's a good year.
10:14:18 >>> I appreciate that comment.
10:14:20 Thank you.
10:14:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you for your hard work that you
10:14:22 did.
10:14:24 All right.
10:14:24 We now go to item number 126.

10:14:29 Mr. Michelini?
10:14:43 Okay.
10:14:44 126.
10:14:46 Okay, he's not here.
10:14:58 126?
10:15:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Last call.
10:15:04 >>GWEN MILLER: If anyone is going to speak on 126,
10:15:09 would you please stand and raise your right hand?
10:15:11 (Oath administered by Clerk)
10:15:23 Continued public hearing.
10:15:24 >>STEVE MICHELINI: We have been dealing with this
10:15:26 alley vacating for some time.
10:15:28 This is the alley that runs north and south between
10:15:31 the governor and TC Choy's.
10:15:38 What TC Choy's has done is have one of their employees
10:15:44 to stand in the alley to stop speeding customers.
10:15:47 Trance transportation did analysis and determined it
10:15:50 wasn't an issue that you met their threshold for
10:15:53 closure.
10:15:54 And actually it didn't meet the threshold for causing
10:15:56 a problem with cut-through traffic.
10:15:59 The issue that we are dealing with is trying to be

10:16:01 sensitive to the property owner to the south who does
10:16:04 not want the closure to go forward, and the property
10:16:06 owner to the north which is TC Choy's which is wanting
10:16:10 some kind of controlling measures.
10:16:12 We explored with the previous management at
10:16:17 transportation the option of temporary closures that
10:16:18 would allow weekend controlling barricades that would
10:16:21 stop some of the cut-through traffic.
10:16:27 We also explored the option of putting some kind of
10:16:29 speed bumps or control measure in there.
10:16:31 The issue that we are faced with is if speed bumps
10:16:34 don't meet warrants, according to the transportation
10:16:37 code, and the property owners obviously would be more
10:16:41 concerned about a closure than they would be about
10:16:44 some kind of controlling measure.
10:16:46 TC Chois is certainly willing to entertain something
10:16:49 less than closure and also provide some measure of
10:16:52 control for that traffic that occurs mainly on the
10:16:55 weekend.
10:16:56 And it's temporary in nature.
10:16:57 It's not chronic, all-day long every day.
10:17:02 It's simply during the weekend.

10:17:03 If there is something short of closure that council
10:17:06 would entertain, perhaps by motion, the owner of TC
10:17:11 Choys is willing to foot the bill for whatever
10:17:13 measures, whether it's a speed bump or speed table.
10:17:16 Apparently, the city has obviously some financial
10:17:20 constraints regarding a speed table that does indeed
10:17:26 warrant but the owner is certainly willing to do that.
10:17:28 I guess we are here to explore options that might be
10:17:31 agreeable.
10:17:31 We have worked with Walter Crumbley and the Courier
10:17:36 City folks.
10:17:37 They are a little concerned about it in general for
10:17:40 the whole area. Anyway, I approach you with the
10:17:44 request to allow the owner to employ some kind of
10:17:47 speed control or traffic controlling device between
10:17:51 the properties.
10:17:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
10:17:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I do a lot of cut-throughs in South
10:17:57 Tampa myself.
10:17:59 But I wasn't aware that this was -- I don't really
10:18:04 understand why people would even consider cutting
10:18:06 through that alley.

10:18:08 That's neither here nor there.
10:18:10 But if that's your client's concern and the true
10:18:13 concern is about speeding and the desire is really
10:18:16 about speed bumps, I don't have a problem with that.
10:18:18 I have a big problem with vacating the alley because I
10:18:20 think that's not a great policy.
10:18:23 And I think the alleys around there function okay.
10:18:28 But I saw Mr. Rodriguez was here.
10:18:34 Tony, I need you to come down for one second.
10:18:36 If the only issue about putting in a speed bump is a
10:18:41 financial issue, and if the property owner wants to
10:18:44 put speed bumps along there at his own financial
10:18:48 burden, why not?
10:18:53 But how does public works feel about this?
10:18:58 >>> Tony Rodriguez, city transportation manager.
10:19:01 It's our position that this is an alleyway, and back
10:19:04 in December, we conducted some accounts in this
10:19:09 alleyway and we found neither a significant traffic
10:19:12 cut-through problem nor a speed problem because we did
10:19:14 lay the hoses out in such a way to get an average
10:19:17 speed.
10:19:17 I'm sorry, I don't have those figures here with me but

10:19:19 we met with Mr. Michelini back in December, and
10:19:22 relayed that.
10:19:23 And that was prior to the last continuance.
10:19:27 With respect to that, we don't feel that it's
10:19:31 warranted, to put these speed tables out.
10:19:34 And frankly you are putting an obstruction into the
10:19:37 right-of-way that's not necessarily justified.
10:19:42 >> What is the speed limit in an alley?
10:19:45 >>> I believe the speed limit in an alley is about 15
10:19:48 miles per hour.
10:19:49 Yes.
10:19:49 >> 15?
10:19:52 >>> Yes.
10:19:52 >> That even seems kind of fast.
10:19:54 I mean those alleys are so narrow and everything else.
10:19:57 I mean, to me, it's like no harm no foul.
10:20:02 Is there a problem?
10:20:03 Is there a safety problem by allowing a private
10:20:05 individual to put in speed bumps?
10:20:08 >>> Well, the speed table essentially is an
10:20:12 obstruction in the right-of-way, and the alley is a
10:20:14 public right-of-way.

10:20:16 And if it's not justified, you are putting an
10:20:19 unnecessary obstruction in that right-of-way.
10:20:26 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm very familiar with this alley and
10:20:28 the whole block.
10:20:29 What we need to do is have those streets not be one
10:20:33 way.
10:20:33 The reason anyone would even cut through there is
10:20:36 because they would be going east on Platt street which
10:20:40 is one way, and wanting to get into South Tampa
10:20:45 especially, into Howard, which is one way going north.
10:20:50 So if anybody cuts through there, that's why.
10:20:53 But I do have to say there's no way you can speed in
10:20:55 that alley.
10:20:56 I think what people used to do is pick up pieces from
10:20:58 Capy's, and then really you get stuck in that parking
10:21:06 lot back there.
10:21:07 It's really congested, and I don't even think -- this
10:21:14 is my memory.
10:21:15 You can even tell me if this is different.
10:21:17 But it seems to me, if I turn from Platt Street south
10:21:21 into that alley, and I go behind TC Choys, then when I
10:21:26 get to about the middle of it, it kind of jogs.

10:21:30 There's some kind of jog there.
10:21:33 Can you go straight?
10:21:37 >>STEVE MICHELINI: It short.
10:21:38 It really only affects two properties.
10:21:40 But the issue is that both properties use the alley.
10:21:44 They use it for deliveries during the daytime.
10:21:47 And we weren't planning to close the alley physically.
10:21:52 What was proposed was the transportation easements be
10:21:56 reserved over the entire length and width so that on
10:21:59 special events, weekends and things like that, some
10:22:02 measure could be employed to stop people from cutting
10:22:05 through, that were eastbound on Platt Street and then
10:22:11 heading south to Azeele and then turning southbound on
10:22:15 Howard.
10:22:15 And you're right.
10:22:16 It's the one ways that are causing the problem.
10:22:21 You also have people trying to avoid the stoplight at
10:22:24 Howard and Azeele that are now turning onto Azeele,
10:22:31 Howard and Platt, turning onto Azeele going up to the
10:22:35 alley, going across and then turning right eastbound,
10:22:37 back toward the downtown.
10:22:39 >>MARY MULHERN: Just looking at it, I do, I drive by

10:22:44 there every day, multiple times.
10:22:46 And I often am trying to get south to my neighborhood,
10:22:49 which is south of all this, off of Howard.
10:22:53 And it would never even occur to me to cut through
10:22:57 that either way, or driving my kids to school.
10:23:01 Moody is right there.
10:23:03 If you really want to cut through, you cut through on
10:23:06 moody, or you go over and go north.
10:23:12 Just my personal experience in that neighborhood.
10:23:15 And the other thing is the businesses other than TC
10:23:19 Choys, there are like four different restaurants in
10:23:22 that little row.
10:23:24 And their commerce are orphan going to need to use
10:23:28 that alley.
10:23:29 So I don't see the problem.
10:23:32 And I think the problem is much bigger that we are
10:23:36 going to need two-way streets.
10:23:37 And I think worry going to start hearing a lot about
10:23:40 that when Publix opens.
10:23:42 >>STEVE MICHELINI: The parking lot for TC Choys is on
10:23:45 both sides of the alley.
10:23:46 And when you are crossing over that alley in the

10:23:50 evening, particularly on Friday and Saturday night, it
10:23:53 becomes a little more dangerous for their patrons.
10:23:56 And that's why TC Choys puts an employee out to escort
10:24:01 people across the parking lot into the restaurant
10:24:03 because they are not looking come out of the alley
10:24:05 going northbound, as I mentioned out of McDentons and
10:24:12 other places that are more frequented by a younger
10:24:16 crowd.
10:24:18 >> Do they need all that parking?
10:24:22 >>STEVE MICHELINI: TC Choys?
10:24:23 The restaurant?
10:24:24 They use every bit of it.
10:24:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When are they open to?
10:24:29 >>> About ten.
10:24:30 They are not open real late.
10:24:32 That's why I say earlier in the evening is the
10:24:34 problem.
10:24:34 What they offered to do before is put up barricades
10:24:36 and take them back down on a temporary licensing
10:24:39 permit.
10:24:40 And that's when Roy LaMotte was here, and we talked
10:24:43 about that and they were going to get back to us,

10:24:46 whether or not it was agreeable to transportation.
10:24:48 And you all made some motions in that regard.
10:24:51 That was also prior to the final study being done
10:24:54 about what do you do about traffic and parking in the
10:24:58 Soho district.
10:24:59 That's why it was at least minimally a motion by
10:25:04 council to allow us to pay for a speed bump to be
10:25:07 erected somewhere between the two properties.
10:25:09 It would not inhibit the traffic.
10:25:11 But it would definitely slow you down before you got
10:25:14 to TC Choys property and it would at least give some
10:25:18 provision of slowing it down and protecting the
10:25:21 patrons going from the parking lot to the restaurant.
10:25:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Michelini, it's unusual that we
10:25:28 need to put a speed bump in alleys.
10:25:30 Usually they are in such poor condition that the pot
10:25:33 holes are a natural deterrent.
10:25:35 But I have a question for legal.
10:25:36 That is, if City Council identifies this as something
10:25:39 that we wanted to support, would we have the ability
10:25:43 to director request the administration to allow the
10:25:49 requester to put in a speed bump?

10:25:52 Do we have that ability?
10:25:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You ask the question.
10:25:56 You use the word direct and request.
10:26:02 >>SAL TERRITO: You can make a request there.
10:26:03 The issue that we have really is that of a liability
10:26:06 one.
10:26:06 If someone is putting something on our rights-of-way,
10:26:08 the liability issue becomes very important to us,
10:26:11 because we are not the ones controlling what's being
10:26:13 put there and we are not the ones controlling the
10:26:15 design of that, and that is a concern we have.
10:26:17 You can certainly ask that be looked at but I don't
10:26:20 think that you can direct them to do it.
10:26:23 >>GWEN MILLER: So what could we put there legally?
10:26:26 >>SAL TERRITO: I don't know what could be put there
10:26:28 legally.
10:26:28 I'm saying if you are allowing a private citizen to
10:26:31 put something on the city's rights-of-way that gets us
10:26:34 into a lot of liability issues.
10:26:36 That's all I am raising at this particular point.
10:26:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Could we put barricades and remove
10:26:41 them?

10:26:41 >>> I don't think -- this is a right-of-way.
10:26:44 You are not closing off streets unless you have a very
10:26:46 valid reason to do that.
10:26:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In regards to the actual vacating,
10:26:53 I think our choices are to deny.
10:26:56 Do you want to withdraw it?
10:26:58 >>> We would be happy to withdraw it, council.
10:27:00 We are trying to find a mechanism to address this one
10:27:03 issue.
10:27:03 >> I don't think we are finding -- I don't have a
10:27:06 problem with it but I don't think we are hearing an
10:27:08 option.
10:27:08 >>> I don't think there are any objections to the
10:27:11 vacate being you that's an extreme measure, and as a
10:27:14 last resort we would even try to go in that direction.
10:27:17 And that's why we are looking for something less than
10:27:19 that to provide some relief.
10:27:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Have you worked with Mr. Rodriguez to
10:27:24 try to come up with some solutions?
10:27:27 >>STEVE MICHELINI: We talked about it and the issues
10:27:28 we keep facing are what meets the transportation
10:27:31 warrants and their standards and their technical

10:27:33 standards, they have pretty hey standard to meet.
10:27:38 They are not really designed for individual properties
10:27:40 to fit those thresholds.
10:27:43 They are designed for a lot of properties, and some
10:27:45 kind of a massing of a problem, and we are trying to
10:27:49 prevent that from occurring.
10:27:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This particular issue is one of a
10:27:57 lot of activity and density and urbanity, and we want
10:28:02 our community to redevelop, we are going to have these
10:28:04 issues more and more.
10:28:05 And I think that transportation needs to look at --
10:28:11 currently our rules are very suburban.
10:28:13 I think we need to look at custom urban solutions to a
10:28:17 lot of these problems.
10:28:18 And I hope that we take a page from the play book of
10:28:23 other denser communities and just look at providing
10:28:26 more choices.
10:28:27 It shouldn't have to be either/or, you vacate the
10:28:33 alley or nothing.
10:28:34 And I would love to see us develop more tools in our
10:28:38 tool kit of ways to address issues like this.
10:28:40 And it's a safety issue for the pedestrians, TC Choy.

10:28:46 We are going to have these issues increasing in the
10:28:48 future.
10:28:48 So my request would be that the transportation study,
10:28:54 a greater variety of options that could be available
10:28:56 for our community to Michael Liss safer for
10:28:59 pedestrians.
10:29:02 >>STEVE MICHELINI: There are other measures.
10:29:05 You could put in what's called a drainage valley where
10:29:08 you have a little bit of a dip, where you convey
10:29:11 stormwater for the street which is typical.
10:29:14 And the grades do flow towards Howard Avenue.
10:29:18 There are a lot of utilities in there so we don't want
10:29:20 to take any kind of extreme measures.
10:29:25 Also, both properties have their solid waste picked up
10:29:28 from their alley and that's why I said the intent was
10:29:30 not to fully close the utilization and stop it, but
10:29:34 rather to try to curtail some of the speeding that
10:29:39 occurs.
10:29:39 And even if it's 5 miles per hour to a pedestrian it
10:29:43 may as well be 100 miles an hour.
10:29:47 Those signs typically don't work but perhaps maybe the
10:29:50 best alternative here is either continue the hearing,

10:29:52 which I don't think we are going to get close to a
10:29:55 resolution, perhaps withdraw the petition, and request
10:29:59 that the transportation department work with us and
10:30:02 report back to council on some measure that would be
10:30:09 designed to protect the pedestrians crossing over from
10:30:12 the parking lot to the restaurant.
10:30:15 And that may be the resolution.
10:30:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to make that motion.
10:30:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public who wants
10:30:25 to speak on item 126?
10:30:27 >>> The Howard Avenue station, has an option to
10:30:31 purchase that property where the governor is, and
10:30:34 another restaurant, and I think everything that I was
10:30:37 going to say has already been said.
10:30:39 There's no speeding problem.
10:30:41 Also, it's really needed for deliveries and what have
10:30:44 you.
10:30:44 And I am not sure that there's -- I think most of the
10:30:47 traffic is starting at TC Choys and coming down to the
10:30:51 governor and not vice versa.
10:30:52 And I didn't even know that was there until I was
10:30:55 retained for this as well.

10:30:56 So I don't think there's a speeding problem.
10:30:58 The only problem I guess I would have, that the
10:31:04 request for vacation is withdrawn.
10:31:06 Only problem I would have is we are going down the
10:31:10 route of putting speeding bumps in when it not needed
10:31:13 at all.
10:31:13 It's my understanding that TC Choy filed the petition
10:31:17 a few times.
10:31:18 I'm not sure if that's correct or not.
10:31:20 One time before.
10:31:21 But if bee we put the speeding bumps in, a couple
10:31:25 years down the road it's going to look like there's a
10:31:28 speeding problem when there wasn't.
10:31:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone else to speak?
10:31:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want to request the petition
10:31:34 to be withdrawn?
10:31:36 >>STEVE MICHELINI: We'll be happy to with true the
10:31:38 petition and request the council to withdraw.
10:31:41 This is the same file that's been going on for almost
10:31:44 a year and a half now.
10:31:45 And we are no closer to resolution now than we were
10:31:47 when we first started.

10:31:49 But perhaps as councilman Saul-Sena pointed out, an
10:31:57 urban approach, perhaps we can come up with a solution
10:31:59 that will protect those pedestrians.
10:32:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I ask that that petition 05-01
10:32:08 based on the information we just heard be allowed to
10:32:10 be withdrawn.
10:32:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:32:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Question on the motion?
10:32:14 (Motion carried).
10:32:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just another issue on this.
10:32:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My motion then would be to ask
10:32:22 transportation to work with Mr. Michelini and come
10:32:24 back to City Council in 60 days with some proposals
10:32:29 perhaps for pedestrian safety.
10:32:30 >> Second.
10:32:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm thinking of like traffic
10:32:33 calming things like lights or trees or is there
10:32:37 anything else that we can explore?
10:32:40 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion.
10:32:41 Question on the motion, Ms. Mulhern.
10:32:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Two-way street.
10:32:46 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor say Aye.

10:32:47 Opposed, Nay.
10:32:49 Mr. Dingfelder.
10:32:52 >>MARY MULHERN: Mrs. Mulhern is exactly right but I am
10:32:55 going to limit this.
10:32:56 If you were all look at the map, the problem is that
10:33:01 one block section in front of what used to be Cappy's,
10:33:09 coming up Platt, you can't make a right on Howard to
10:33:12 get to the rest of South Tampa.
10:33:14 For some reason that one-block segment is one way.
10:33:17 Okay?
10:33:18 And I don't know why.
10:33:19 It seems like it has.
10:33:21 It's just sort of a vestige of the other pattern.
10:33:24 So what I would like to do is request that the
10:33:28 transportation department study that one block.
10:33:30 I think it's just that one block segment.
10:33:35 Well, the north I don't want to get into.
10:33:38 There's a reason for that and all that.
10:33:40 And that contained of matches up with the one-waying
10:33:44 of Platt.
10:33:45 But that seeing am between Azeele and plat and Howard,
10:33:49 and the feasibility or reasonableness of making that

10:33:53 two-way.
10:33:53 >> Motion and second.
10:33:56 >> And come back in -- what do you need, 90 days?
10:34:01 >> I didn't realize it was only that one block but
10:34:03 it's a great idea.
10:34:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 60 days.
10:34:07 (Motion carried).
10:34:07 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Thank you very much.
10:34:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
10:34:11 would like to request reconsideration on legislative
10:34:13 matters?
10:34:14 We will go to ordinance for first reading.
10:34:18 Is there anyone in the public that would like to speak
10:34:20 on item number 3?
10:34:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, just a reminder.
10:34:26 It is 10:35.
10:34:27 And you do have the items that are being requested to
10:34:31 be moved up.
10:34:32 I don't know whether council wants to take that first.
10:34:39 >>GWEN MILLER: After these we'll do that.
10:34:41 Anyone want to speak on item 3?
10:34:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I received from assistant city

10:34:45 attorney Ernie Mueller copies of the ordinance.
10:34:52 And I am distributing it to council.
10:34:57 >>> Ernest Mueller: I'm presenting an ordinance for
10:35:02 first reading, and it amend Tampa city code 26-5 and
10:35:07 that's the schedule of violations and penalties in the
10:35:10 recently passed civil citation ordinance and this
10:35:14 ordinance here is making three changes to that
10:35:16 schedule of violations and fines.
10:35:19 First, it's removing the watering violations from the
10:35:24 class 2 violation where it was at, and we are creating
10:35:27 a whole new class called class W, which will only
10:35:30 contain the watering violations.
10:35:31 And watering violations we are talking about
10:35:33 irrigation and other types of outdoor water use.
10:35:38 Also what's happened, too, is we are reducing the
10:35:41 fines back to where they were before you passed the
10:35:46 civil citation ordinance two weeks ago.
10:35:49 So, in other words, the proposed fines in this
10:35:52 ordinance will be for first-time watering offense will
10:35:56 be 100, second time 200, third time $450.
10:36:01 Third time or more.
10:36:02 Now, that's a little bit of a change from the way that

10:36:04 it used to be.
10:36:05 It used to be for a third time it was a 300 to 500
10:36:08 dollar range.
10:36:09 But by law we have to set an actual fine or we can't
10:36:13 have that range.
10:36:14 That's why we have gone with the $450.
10:36:16 Lastly what this does is in each of the class ones,
10:36:20 two, three and four, we have struck the word minimum
10:36:22 in the same minimum fine and we are just saying that
10:36:24 the fine is.
10:36:25 It makes it clear that the fine for a first-time
10:36:28 violation of class one is $75.
10:36:31 Not a minimum of 75 but 75.
10:36:34 Are there any questions?
10:36:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Just for the record and the people
10:36:38 that are here today, watching, and all of those
10:36:40 concerns in the media and so forth, can you just very
10:36:43 quickly identify what is a violation one, two and
10:36:46 three?
10:36:51 >>> Are you asking why --
10:36:54 >> What are they?
10:36:55 In other words, one carries such a load, two a little

10:37:00 higher, then three carries much higher.
10:37:02 What are they?
10:37:03 >>> Class one violations are what were determined to
10:37:08 be probably the least, I guess, serious offenses, and
10:37:13 that's for a first violation, will be $75.
10:37:17 If they have a second violation of a class one, that
10:37:20 will be $150 for that fine.
10:37:23 Third time would be $300.
10:37:25 And fourth and subsequent offense, $450.
10:37:28 >>GWEN MILLER: The first time is like if you are
10:37:31 watering on the wrong day or something like that?
10:37:35 >> No, that's not watering.
10:37:37 It's class one.
10:37:40 Does that mean high grass, or building needs painting?
10:37:43 I don't know how it falls into one, two and three.
10:37:47 >> Okay.
10:37:49 For example, you will see under the class one
10:37:51 violations we have several section 19 violations.
10:37:56 And these are the ones selected by the department of
10:37:58 code enforcement.
10:37:59 And it is, for example, 19-56.
10:38:03 An example of that is inoperable motor vehicle.

10:38:10 And then you want me to move on to class --
10:38:13 >> Section 2.
10:38:16 >>> Section two is a little more serious so the
10:38:18 beginning fine starts at 150.
10:38:20 In other words, the lower fines dropped out so first
10:38:23 offense, $150.
10:38:25 Second offense $300.
10:38:26 >> Give me an example of one.
10:38:29 What is it?
10:38:30 I don't know.
10:38:32 >>> In the 19-231, we have several under 19-231.
10:38:38 Those are minimum housing standards.
10:38:40 Things where the wiring, the plumb, those types of
10:38:43 violations.
10:38:44 >> Okay.
10:38:44 >>> The class 3.
10:38:52 >>ERNEST MUELLER:
10:38:56 That is the cuing line ordinance in Ybor City.
10:38:58 So that has been considered to be they want to put in
10:39:02 the class three.
10:39:03 Not quite the most serious but just one step below it.
10:39:06 And that would be a fine of $300 for the first

10:39:11 offense.
10:39:12 And an establishment there in the queuing line without
10:39:15 a permit.
10:39:17 And then the most serious fines we have in here, the
10:39:22 class four, those are like the ones under section 13.
10:39:28 Those are the tree trimming and tree cutting
10:39:31 ordinances.
10:39:32 And then finally our new section class W, which is the
10:39:39 watering.
10:39:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:39:41 Would anyone else like to speak?
10:39:42 Mr. Miranda, would you read that, please?
10:39:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move an ordinance providing for
10:39:49 first reading amending section 23.5-5 schedule of
10:39:55 violations and penalties by striking the word
10:39:57 "minimum" for each subsection, creating a class W
10:40:01 violation and corresponding fines for outdoor watering
10:40:04 violations, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
10:40:06 conflict, providing for severability, providing an
10:40:08 effective date.
10:40:09 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
10:40:11 (Motion carried)

10:40:13 Is there anyone that would like to speak on item 4?
10:40:17 Mr. Dingfelder, would you read that, please?
10:40:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: First reading.
10:40:21 I'll move an ordinance amending ordinance 2008-14
10:40:25 passed and ordained by the City Council of the City of
10:40:27 Tampa on February 8, 2008 which approved a wet zoning
10:40:31 4(COP-X) 512 east Hillsborough Avenue correct ago
10:40:34 scrivener's error by correcting sections 3 and 6
10:40:37 regarding conditions, providing for severability,
10:40:39 providing an effective date.
10:40:42 >> Second.
10:40:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:40:43 (Motion carried)
10:40:47 Now, Mr. Shelby.
10:40:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have items 114 and 115.
10:40:54 You have a full council -- awed full council present
10:40:59 and Mrs. Saul-Sena stepped out.
10:41:00 Those are items brought to you under rule 4-C where
10:41:03 the public hearings have been closed and require at
10:41:18 least four votes under the charter.
10:41:20 >>GWEN MILLER: 114.
10:41:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 806 east Hillsborough Avenue.

10:41:24 I believe Mr. Mureau is counsel on that.
10:41:36 To make the record complete, you did receive a letter
10:41:38 from Mr. Mureau making a motion, he's moving council
10:41:45 for a rehearing of the wet zoning.
10:41:47 Basically, council --
10:41:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: He's making a motion?
10:41:57 When did he get elected?
10:41:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Actually in the sense of a
10:42:01 quasi-judicial hearing he's saying it was heard and
10:42:03 voted down by a vote of 3 to 2.
10:42:06 And as council knows, it takes official action of at
10:42:09 least four votes either in support or in opposition to
10:42:12 take action.
10:42:13 So there was in a action taken.
10:42:14 Today's vote with the public hearing closed is before
10:42:19 council, to council members council members were
10:42:24 absent.
10:42:25 Are you prepared to vote?
10:42:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, I am.
10:42:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The basis of the request is to
10:42:31 supplement the record based on the reasons for denial
10:42:34 asserted by council member Saul-Sena as relates to

10:42:37 proximity of the alleged drug treatment centers, or
10:42:39 other health care facility.
10:42:41 If council wishes to entertain that, or wishes for a
10:42:46 proffer as to why he wants to do that, or if council
10:42:49 has any questions which they wish to reopen the public
10:42:53 hearing, they may do so.
10:42:54 If council feels that the evidence is sufficient, and
10:42:57 that their review of the record is sufficient, the
10:43:00 record is sufficient based on substantial, competent
10:43:02 evidence or competent substantial evidence to support
10:43:04 their decision, council may vote.
10:43:07 It is your decision, council.
10:43:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
10:43:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just from a process and a procedure
10:43:13 perspective, we have a rule, we are sort of in the
10:43:17 middle of this process.
10:43:19 We have taken all the evidence.
10:43:20 We have closed the hearing.
10:43:22 We made a vote.
10:43:23 Our rule says we are kind of deadlocked and we need --
10:43:27 we would continue on with the vote until we are out of
10:43:29 the deadlock.

10:43:30 I don't think we should stray from the rule because I
10:43:32 think it's a bad precedent and more for us to do that
10:43:38 in the future.
10:43:39 I would say let's just proceed on with the way our
10:43:41 rule says and finish up this vote and see where we
10:43:43 are.
10:43:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And council --
10:43:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Kert wanted to say something.
10:43:49 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
10:43:50 I wanted to clarify the motion as written section 3 of
10:43:55 your code, for the record I want to clarify it was
10:43:58 3-70, for clarification.
10:44:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you, Mrs. Kert.
10:44:04 Also, 115, the correct section is 370-A, 2, 3 and 4
10:44:11 and 6.
10:44:13 Council, the motion was to deny, and the bases were
10:44:21 set forth and the motion was not adopted.
10:44:23 So an affirmative vote today is a motion to deny.
10:44:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena made the motion.
10:44:28 Would you read that, please?
10:44:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I don't think -- no.
10:44:34 I have a question on the motion.

10:44:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to speak on the motion.
10:44:37 I was absent.
10:44:39 And if I recall what transpired during all those
10:44:44 hearings, at the time of the hearing, I should say,
10:44:47 806 is a gas station.
10:44:50 806 is a gas station that the only ingress and egress
10:44:55 you have is either heading north on the expressway or
10:44:59 heading west on Hillsborough Avenue.
10:45:04 That it sits in a situation where you cannot make a
10:45:07 left turn into the neighborhood.
10:45:09 Yes, down the street if you want to go through the
10:45:11 neighborhood, I guess you could.
10:45:14 I looked at this thing not once but twice.
10:45:16 Across the street is a very well-known church.
10:45:20 In fact I played for that coach who used to go to that
10:45:23 church, coach stokes back in junior high school.
10:45:26 And I said in a humerus way a Roadrunner couldn't
10:45:32 cross that street on Hillsborough Avenue.
10:45:34 Even though I wasn't trying to be funny, Roadrunner
10:45:37 couldn't make it across there if he wanted to, or she
10:45:39 wanted to.
10:45:40 I don't know if road runner is a he or she.

10:45:43 So in view of the fact of those situations, just today
10:45:48 we changed a scrivener's error on a restaurant.
10:45:51 So can you drink while you drive?
10:45:54 You are not supposed to.
10:45:55 I'm not saying that some people don't.
10:45:57 Can you drink when you go in to have a meal?
10:46:00 You can.
10:46:03 And depending on how many drinks you have, are you
10:46:06 just as liable to have something done and commit a
10:46:12 life threatening situation?
10:46:13 I believe you are.
10:46:14 But we passed that with the neighborhood support.
10:46:18 And I'm not speaking against the neighborhood.
10:46:20 I'm just saying that logically, unless you leave that
10:46:24 area, and you open whatever you bought and you start
10:46:29 drinking, then you violated the law.
10:46:31 I don't think that's going to happen, because if it's
10:46:33 happening there, it happens throughout the city.
10:46:37 And that's why we have police officers on the street
10:46:40 that have been reducing crime in large numbers in this
10:46:42 city for the last three or four years.
10:46:44 So I will not be supporting for denial based on the

10:46:47 fact that I don't think this is going to be a
10:46:50 detriment, a direct detriment to anyone.
10:46:54 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second for denial.
10:46:57 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
10:46:58 Opposed, Nay.
10:47:05 >> 3 to 4.
10:47:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 3 to 4.
10:47:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you want to do another one?
10:47:12 Roll call.
10:47:13 All for denial.
10:47:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes for denial.
10:47:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No.
10:47:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No.
10:47:21 >>GWEN MILLER: No.
10:47:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
10:47:32 >>MARY MULHERN:
10:47:37 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO:
10:47:40 >>THE CLERK: The motion failed.
10:47:42 3 to 4..
10:47:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I usually don't cover myself.
10:47:46 I'm not a very good politician.
10:47:48 I'm a pretty good elected official but I don't play

10:47:51 the game.
10:47:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Caetano, you can make the motion.
10:47:56 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: (off microphone)
10:48:04 >>GWEN MILLER: You have to read it.
10:48:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Excuse me.
10:48:09 Did we just pass something for denial and it passed 4
10:48:12 to 3?
10:48:13 >>GWEN MILLER: No, no.
10:48:14 It failed.
10:48:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I was thinking the next item on the
10:48:18 agenda --
10:48:18 >>GWEN MILLER: We are moving for approval now.
10:48:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
10:48:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Is that right, Mr. Shelby?
10:48:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you want to read the title?
10:48:35 >>THE CLERK: I believe at the last hearing a
10:48:36 substitute ordinance was prepared for a one-year
10:48:39 conditional use.
10:48:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is that the ordinance -- do you have
10:48:42 a copy of the correct ordinance?
10:48:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Is that the correct one on the agenda?
10:48:48 Ms. Kert?

10:48:49 Okay, Mr. Caetano, you can read that.
10:48:52 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The ordinance here?
10:48:55 Ordinance being presented for second reading, an
10:48:57 ordinance making lawful the conditional sale of
10:48:59 beverages containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight
10:49:02 and not more than 14% by weight and wines regardless
10:49:05 of alcoholic content, beer and wine, 2(APS), in sealed
10:49:10 containers for consumption off premises only at or
10:49:15 from that certain lot, plot or tract of land located
10:49:18 at 806 east Hillsborough Avenue, Tampa, Florida, as
10:49:22 more particularly described in section 2 hereof,
10:49:25 waiving certain restrictions as to distance based upon
10:49:28 certain findings, imposing certain conditions,
10:49:31 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
10:49:34 providing an effective date.
10:49:35 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
10:49:36 Vote and record.
10:49:38 Roll call.
10:49:39 Roll call, I'm sorry.
10:49:40 It's not working.
10:49:41 Roll call.
10:49:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.

10:49:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
10:49:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
10:49:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
10:49:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
10:49:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.
10:49:57 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena, Scott and
10:49:59 Mulhern voting no. The second reading of the
10:50:01 ordinance will be held April 3rd at 9:30 a.m
10:50:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It was adopted. This moves on to
10:50:17 second reading.
10:50:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Can we revote?
10:50:20 I don't want the record to northbound anyway a gray
10:50:22 area.
10:50:23 And I suggest we revote on this item.
10:50:29 The clerk said --
10:50:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I said adopt for second reading
10:50:36 so my error, council.
10:50:38 So it's final, right?
10:50:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So that there's in a mistake under
10:50:43 the public perception, this is a second reading and
10:50:45 adoption.
10:50:45 That was the motion that was made.

10:50:47 Council member Miranda asked for a revote for
10:50:50 clarification purposes, so there's no
10:50:52 misunderstanding, I see in a problem in doing that.
10:50:55 I think so it's absolutely clear to everybody --
10:50:58 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: When you get to Charlie's age
10:51:01 things don't come up so clear.
10:51:05 Should I read it again?
10:51:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If you read it once, it once too
10:51:10 many.
10:51:11 [ Laughter ]
10:51:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 114.
10:51:18 It was read for second reading and adoption.
10:51:21 Roll call.
10:51:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
10:51:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
10:51:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Still yes.
10:51:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
10:51:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
10:51:31 >>MARY MULHERN: No.
10:51:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.
10:51:34 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena, Scott and
10:51:36 Mulhern voting no.

10:51:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby, item 115.
10:51:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That is at 723 west Columbus drive.
10:51:48 Again that is here pursuant to rule 4-C.
10:51:51 Again, Ms. Kert had mentioned the section in the
10:51:57 previous file, this one as well.
10:51:59 Section 3, to correct the motion.
10:52:01 It is section 3-70, sub, or (A), 2, 3, 4 and 6.
10:52:13 Is council prepared to vote on this?
10:52:17 >> Yes.
10:52:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: There's been one other issue.
10:52:20 I believe there may have been some documents that have
10:52:22 been submitted that may have been available for public
10:52:24 inspection in City Council's office.
10:52:26 I would ask those be received and filed into the
10:52:29 record.
10:52:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.
10:52:32 >> Second.
10:52:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:52:35 (Motion carried).
10:52:36 >> A reminder if there have been any ex parte
10:52:38 communications relative to this or any other hearing
10:52:40 that you are going to be hearing today to please

10:52:42 disclose the sum and substance and with whom in a
10:52:45 occurred prior to the vote.
10:52:47 Council, if you are prepared to vote, the motion
10:52:48 before you was a motion for denial.
10:52:53 The bases were set forth.
10:52:55 Again it's section 3-70 (A) 2, 3, 4 and 6.
10:53:00 If there's nothing further.
10:53:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just for clarification the agenda
10:53:05 says 3-70-A.
10:53:11 >> When you say 3-70 A, it sounds like 3-78 but I was
10:53:16 corrected by Mrs. Kert.
10:53:18 Correction section, I have verified that in the code,
10:53:20 is 3-70 (A).
10:53:25 Thank you.
10:53:25 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion for item number 115
10:53:27 for denial.
10:53:29 Do voice roll call.
10:53:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes for denial.
10:53:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No.
10:53:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes for denial.
10:53:38 >>GWEN MILLER: No.
10:53:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.

10:53:44 >>MARY MULHERN: No.
10:53:46 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: No for denial.
10:53:49 >>THE CLERK: The motion failed 3 to 4 with Miranda,
10:53:52 Miller, Scott and Caetano voting no.
10:53:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just for clarification.
10:54:00 >>GWEN MILLER: You say in a for denial?
10:54:02 >>GWEN MILLER: You mean you're for it, you said no for
10:54:05 denial.
10:54:06 How did you mean that?
10:54:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not trying to be the champion
10:54:14 here or anything but the motion is done in reverse
10:54:16 because of the situation how it came up on the agenda.
10:54:18 So when you vote no and when you vote yes, if you vote
10:54:25 yes you are voting for denial.
10:54:26 Am I correct?
10:54:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Right.
10:54:29 >> So that's how the vote was taken.
10:54:31 >>: I do not want a denial.
10:54:35 >> I am not trying to change anyone's maned but the
10:54:38 way it's presented it's not the normal transaction of
10:54:40 the council.
10:54:40 It's done in reverse in this case.

10:54:42 So it's a little tricky.
10:54:46 >>GWEN MILLER: It's 4 to 3, failed.
10:54:48 >> It's 3 to 4.
10:54:50 >> Let the clerk announce it.
10:54:56 >>THE CLERK: You voted no to deny.
10:54:59 >> I don't want to deny it.
10:55:06 >> Well, it's 3 to 4.
10:55:08 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to vote again.
10:55:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Three to approve.
10:55:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The motion to deny failed 3 to 4.
10:55:17 >> You have down how it was voted.
10:55:20 Okay.
10:55:20 >> Could I get a clarification on this one?
10:55:26 The applicant at the last meeting had offered -- had
10:55:29 requested a one-year conditional with a -- not the
10:55:34 ordinance on your agenda.
10:55:35 I could have it brought down if that's the one that
10:55:37 you want to read.
10:55:38 I just wanted clarification.
10:55:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'll support that.
10:55:43 I went over yesterday and drove around and saw that
10:55:52 area.

10:55:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby, you had another pulled?
10:55:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Those two required a full council.
10:56:00 Other item that came up is item 106 is the once a week
10:56:08 garbage collection.
10:56:09 The merger of required waste and that's a request by
10:56:13 the administration.
10:56:14 And item 110 is the hiring of the budget analyst.
10:56:18 And Mr. David Smith requested 109 the TECO franchise
10:56:27 be moved up as well.
10:56:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Are all four going to be lengthy?
10:56:32 I would ask the chair to please bring up 11 and 15 so
10:56:36 these good people from the zoo can get to work.
10:56:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
10:56:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would agree, Mr. Miranda.
10:56:53 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to go to committee
10:56:57 reports.
10:56:57 Public safety.
10:56:58 Reverend Scott.
10:56:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I want to move all items except number
10:57:02 8 I believe pulled by Mary Mulhern.
10:57:04 I move items 5, 6, 7 and 9.
10:57:08 >> Second.

10:57:08 (Motion carried).
10:57:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Mulhern, do you need someone to
10:57:13 speak or are you okay?
10:57:16 Number 8.
10:57:29 Hold number 8 then.
10:57:30 Parks and recreation.
10:57:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move resolutions 10 through --
10:57:36 >>GWEN MILLER: If you look at the top.
10:57:37 Clerk has been so nice to put the numbers.
10:57:41 >> I must have an old agenda.
10:57:46 >> It shows how many items you have.
10:57:49 You see yours?
10:57:53 You need the new agenda.
10:57:56 >> Move 10 through 18.
10:57:57 >> Second.
10:57:58 (Motion carried).
10:57:58 >> Public works, Mr. Miranda.
10:58:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think there's been some
10:58:09 suggestion to hold some of these items and I'll see if
10:58:11 I can remember which they were.
10:58:13 Item 19 to hold.

10:58:14 24 to hold.
10:58:17 29 to hold.
10:58:22 And that's it.
10:58:23 I move all the other items that start under 19,
10:58:29 meaning items 20 through items number 32.
10:58:35 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
10:58:37 (Motion carried)
10:58:41 Who pulled 19 and 20?
10:58:43 Do you want to speak on it or are you okay now?
10:58:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I can speak to that if the council
10:58:48 wishes.
10:58:49 Let me explain what item 19 is.
10:58:51 19, if my mind is correct, is a starting of what this
10:58:58 will council has passed in the past.
10:59:00 We passed a mechanism to increase some rates in the
10:59:04 water department to have the capability to put in new
10:59:08 pipes throughout the city.
10:59:09 And after that, the administration went on and had a
10:59:14 bonding, so the bonding to do that work has already
10:59:17 been met with the administration, and those who do
10:59:21 these kinds of things in the markets.
10:59:23 This is the starting of this company to do the work so

10:59:28 that we can expand and provide the citizens of this
10:59:31 great city a continued venue of replacing of
10:59:38 underground pipes that are so needed in this city.
10:59:40 As you well know most of these pipes are 80 to 100
10:59:43 years old.
10:59:44 This area here is not only the area of downtown but it
10:59:47 covers other areas in the city that are in need of us
10:59:52 doing this work, to hold this for any definite time
10:59:55 will put a continuous strain, because these pipes are
11:00:00 of age.
11:00:00 And we are spending a lot more money in repairing what
11:00:04 we now have than if we were to go on.
11:00:08 The other areas are the segments of 22nd Avenue,
11:00:11 19th street north, Bayshore, phase two pipe
11:00:15 replacement project.
11:00:16 This is a very needed thing for this city.
11:00:18 And these are expending the fund of which this council
11:00:24 passed and the administration did the work to get the
11:00:27 moneys up front through bonding.
11:00:29 I think Mr. Daignault is here.
11:00:31 I don't know if he would like to speak on it.
11:00:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me raise what my issue is.

11:00:41 Thank you, Mr. Miranda.
11:00:42 My issue has to do with a few weeks ago, we passed a
11:00:46 contract for $6 million.
11:00:50 We are back today with several items on here, and my
11:00:57 issue is, I want to address the MBE portion because
11:01:02 coming back, I don't know what's going on in terms of
11:01:05 the WMBE participation.
11:01:07 >> Yes, sir.
11:01:08 And we are prepared to address that.
11:01:09 I would like to -- if you will just bear with me just
11:01:14 one second.
11:01:15 Two years ago, we looked forward, and we saw the
11:01:19 perfect storm coming at us.
11:01:21 WME -- excuse me, the MFL issue and building projects
11:01:27 to solve and deal with the MFL issue, we have
11:01:31 reclaimed water issues.
11:01:32 We knew we were going to put in more reclaimed pipes.
11:01:36 We had this fourth street main that broke a couple
11:01:40 times.
11:01:40 We knew we were going to have to put in the pipe.
11:01:44 We had lots of pipes, water and wastewater which were
11:01:48 breaking and we knew we had to replace them.

11:01:51 This was before Strand and we had CRAs coming to us
11:01:54 saying we have to have infrastructure, you have to
11:01:56 build us more infrastructure.
11:01:58 We had stormwater issues.
11:01:59 What we saw on our future map was lots of underground
11:02:04 pipes being replaced.
11:02:06 We needed some help as a department, as a group in the
11:02:10 city.
11:02:10 We were not able to deal with what we saw as a
11:02:14 convergence of many projects, and many requirements to
11:02:17 replace underground piping.
11:02:19 All of these are very similar projects.
11:02:21 It just depends on whether it's wastewater,
11:02:24 stormwater, reclaimed water, the type of water you are
11:02:27 putting through the pipes.
11:02:28 So we brought this type of a contract together.
11:02:34 This contract has some oversight for us.
11:02:38 And then it has a piece for design and a piece for
11:02:41 construction.
11:02:42 And it has a piece for design and a piece for
11:02:45 construction for every project.
11:02:47 And we will be coming back to council many times to do

11:02:50 that.
11:02:51 So what we have today -- and yes, sir, I'm trying to
11:02:54 answer lots of questions here.
11:02:55 I will get to yours, I promise.
11:02:57 So you have approved in the past design requirements.
11:03:01 And we told you that we would be mindful, and that we
11:03:05 would report on a regular basis on WMBE involvement.
11:03:08 And we are going to do that in just a second.
11:03:10 Again, this is just another block, another box in this
11:03:15 contract.
11:03:16 We will be bringing to you before too long the
11:03:19 construction block for 12th Street.
11:03:22 And at that time we can give you the various
11:03:26 specifics.
11:03:27 But I would like Randy Houston to come up for just a
11:03:30 minute, and I think tell a very good story on where we
11:03:35 are with the WMBE involvement if we can do that.
11:03:41 >> Madam Chair, councilman Scott as well as other
11:03:44 council members.
11:03:45 As a representative of the hill and as your utility
11:03:51 council project manager, and the involvement. Of the
11:03:57 WMBE minority involvement program, it's the local

11:04:01 community.
11:04:04 And it's an essential part of what we are doing in
11:04:07 managing, you know, your program.
11:04:09 We met with Mr. Greg Hart, director of your minority
11:04:15 business department.
11:04:16 We are continuing to work with them, where we are
11:04:20 today including this amendment before you today.
11:04:24 We have selected eight WMBE firms from the certified
11:04:29 minority list for 1.4 million, program management and
11:04:34 design services.
11:04:37 That's the phase we are in.
11:04:38 There are more additional opportunities, when we get
11:04:41 to construction, as Mr. Daignault just was telling
11:04:44 you.
11:04:45 As part of that, an example, the first project that
11:04:49 will roll out for the construction phase, we are now
11:04:51 developing a guaranteed maximum price, and as part of
11:04:55 that development -- and that will come to you later --
11:04:58 but as part of that development, we went out to 69
11:05:01 firms, we have solicited for 14 different areas of
11:05:04 work -- 69 WMBE firms, all of them from the list,
11:05:10 everyone from the current list, for 14 different areas

11:05:13 of work.
11:05:14 So that's where we are now.
11:05:17 So councilman Scott, we do view it as a very serious
11:05:21 thing and are not just saying it one time, when you
11:05:25 have the original contract December 28th.
11:05:28 But are continuing.
11:05:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Overall what would be the total amount
11:05:33 of dollars spent on this project, Mr. Daignault?
11:05:36 >>> That will be determined project by project basis.
11:05:40 So part of that is our soliciting, getting input back,
11:05:44 sitting down, we'll sit down.
11:05:49 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Based on what we know right now
11:05:51 this total project could be in the vicinity of $200
11:05:54 million.
11:05:54 It's going to come in in pieces, for design --
11:05:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The reason, council, is we vote on a
11:06:02 $6 million contract I think last month, in a minority
11:06:06 participation as I recall on that particular issue
11:06:08 because you said --
11:06:13 >>> that's what he first reported to you is where we
11:06:15 are right now, with what you have already approved.
11:06:18 He has eight WMBEs, and $1.4 million.

11:06:27 Moving forward --
11:06:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
11:06:30 Every time a contract comes, I want to tell you now,
11:06:33 and to be honest, expect it to come up every time,
11:06:38 until I have a clear understanding that minorities are
11:06:40 participating, and getting a portion of the contract,
11:06:43 this city government, I'm going to pull every one of
11:06:45 them until I get what I want.
11:06:48 So just be mindful.
11:06:49 Now, in terms of -- I will tell you I have been
11:06:52 getting calls, they call you and you all don't return
11:06:54 the call.
11:06:55 Whether that's true or not.
11:06:56 I want to tell you I'm getting calls.
11:06:58 So I would suggest, even someone that don't qualify,
11:07:02 it behooves you to return the call and give them the
11:07:06 information because that's what my office is being
11:07:08 told, that's what they are telling me.
11:07:09 So I just want it on the record so everybody knows
11:07:12 where I am when it comes to these large contracts, and
11:07:16 particularly you are talking about $200 million over
11:07:20 this time it's going to be spent.

11:07:22 I want to make sure that minority participation is
11:07:26 heavily involved.
11:07:27 Okay?
11:07:28 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Absolutely.
11:07:29 And when we bring each package to you, again, I want
11:07:32 to be able to provide that information.
11:07:34 Again 12th Street is come.
11:07:36 We have solicited 69 WMBE firms.
11:07:39 We will let you know when we bring that to you, the
11:07:43 level of actual involvement.
11:07:44 >>CHAIRMAN: Ms. Mulhern.
11:07:47 >>MARY MULHERN: I have several questions.
11:07:52 The 1.4 million that you said is for minority, these
11:07:58 based on the other contract, the other amount that we
11:08:01 approved.
11:08:01 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: That's based on he wons that you
11:08:06 have already approved, that's correct.
11:08:07 >> That $6 million?
11:08:09 >>> Correct.
11:08:13 >> Let me clarify one thing.
11:08:15 One million of that is in the original contract.
11:08:18 And what's before you today includes the 380,000.

11:08:27 On the amendment today.
11:08:28 >> Okay.
11:08:29 So of that 3,259,000, how much --
11:08:37 >>> 336,000.
11:08:41 >> Okay.
11:08:42 Okay.
11:08:42 I got it.
11:08:44 All right.
11:08:48 My question, when we approved this whole bundle
11:08:52 contract initially, didn't we have -- did we have a
11:08:56 total amount we were approving?
11:09:00 Not at all?
11:09:01 >>> No, we did not.
11:09:04 >> So each time you are going to give it.
11:09:12 How much is this project you are doing right now?
11:09:15 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Item number 29 on the agenda today
11:09:17 is the design for four water replacement and upgrade
11:09:22 projects.
11:09:24 They are listed in four different areas.
11:09:32 And this is for the design piece.
11:09:34 Again, we will be bringing you the construction piece
11:09:37 as we get the guaranteed maximum price.

11:09:39 >>MARY MULHERN: I did not put that together.
11:09:47 There's 100 and some items on here.
11:09:49 In the future if we could know what -- and I just
11:09:53 looked at this, for instance.
11:09:54 And I didn't know.
11:09:56 So if you could just put in the resolution, or
11:10:01 somewhere in the backup where we are going.
11:10:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: One thing that would help us, Madam
11:10:11 Chair, the problem that I'm having with this agenda is
11:10:14 on one hand you have you have something different so
11:10:21 it makes it a little confusing.
11:10:23 If you could have those together it would help me
11:10:27 anyway.
11:10:28 Do you understand what I'm saying?
11:10:30 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Yes, sir, I do.
11:10:31 And I agree with you --
11:10:33 >> It's several pages over so you have to read 19 and
11:10:36 then go over to 29, you have a hard time trying to
11:10:40 read those.
11:10:40 >>MARY MULHERN: And if we could -- you know, it's our
11:10:45 time, take.
11:10:46 It not like we want to belabor every single thing that

11:10:49 comes in front of us.
11:10:50 But if we could see Wan -- this is a big contract.
11:10:55 What money, for instance, on that -- I don't think we
11:10:58 have on here who is being hired for what job for what
11:11:02 amount.
11:11:05 If you could give us that background, and whether they
11:11:08 are women or minority business.
11:11:10 Then we would have it in front of us.
11:11:12 We would know what the job S.and we would know where
11:11:15 the dollars were going.
11:11:16 So that would be really helpful.
11:11:21 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
11:11:22 Let me suggest something.
11:11:23 What ends up happening is when we have a construction
11:11:25 contract, that belongs in one committee.
11:11:27 The funding for that is a funding agreement, budget
11:11:32 resolution which goes to a different committee.
11:11:33 What we should be doing, is get with Marty and the
11:11:37 clerk and see if we can at least reference item 13
11:11:41 refers to item 37.
11:11:42 Because they are in different committee jurisdictions.
11:11:50 >>> It is confusing but that is the money.

11:11:53 This is the contract.
11:11:55 >>MARY MULHERN: But can we do that in the future, know
11:11:57 how much?
11:12:00 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: We have that information.
11:12:01 We can show you the information that will be doing the
11:12:05 design work.
11:12:09 >>MARY MULHERN: It's just one organization?
11:12:11 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Well, it is many organizations.
11:12:13 But when I say the compilation of firms and groups
11:12:18 that will be working to get this design completed.
11:12:20 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:12:21 The list of people and the amount that they are being
11:12:27 paid.
11:12:27 The contract amount.
11:12:29 Could we have that?
11:12:30 >>> Absolutely.
11:12:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: (off microphone) mentioned the
11:12:37 figure 200 million.
11:12:38 That's a big amount.
11:12:39 Assessment of this city is much greater than 200
11:12:42 million.
11:12:42 It may be 2 billion of what we need to do underground

11:12:45 to really get this city going and being where it's at
11:12:48 in today's society needs and the structure that we
11:12:52 need to keep moving forward.
11:12:53 Let me continue to say that -- and I agree with
11:12:56 everything that's been said about listening.
11:12:59 It very difficult for any contractor or individuals
11:13:04 like CM hill or whatever and anyone doing business
11:13:08 with the city to come give you the list of who they
11:13:11 are going to do business with, in essence, they don't
11:13:13 have any resolution that they can do business at all.
11:13:16 So I think that when these things are presented, maybe
11:13:20 at that time in the presentation, that will be all
11:13:25 individual but I don't think you can specifically say
11:13:26 these are the ones we are going to choose, because you
11:13:30 can't choose anyone until you have the right to
11:13:32 choose.
11:13:32 And until this passes this chamber, there is no
11:13:36 choosing.
11:13:37 Not only choosing yourself but choosing of yourself.
11:13:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
11:13:50 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm going to be real quick.
11:13:52 I just wanted to say, Mr. Miranda, that they just told

11:13:54 us they know who they are hiring.
11:13:57 And if they came up with this figure $3,259,848, and
11:14:06 didn't you tell us you knew who you were going to be
11:14:09 using for this project?
11:14:10 >>> Yes.
11:14:11 We can identify, again, the people, the firms, the
11:14:14 groups that will be involved in each of these, as we
11:14:17 bring them to you.
11:14:18 Yes, we will do that.
11:14:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Are we still getting a periodic
11:14:23 report from MBE, from Greg?
11:14:29 >>> Yes.
11:14:29 >> How often do we get those?
11:14:31 It used to be monthly.
11:14:32 Is it now quarterly?
11:14:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Quarterly.
11:14:37 >> Used to be monthly.
11:14:38 Because what I would suggest, that would be really an
11:14:41 opportune time for Greg and Randy and Steve to come in
11:14:45 and -- I mean, we are going to be working with CH-2
11:14:50 for the next several years on hundreds of millions of
11:14:53 projects.

11:14:53 And this is going to be an issue.
11:14:55 So I think that periodically when Greg is reporting in
11:14:58 front of us on that issue, gave reports specifically
11:15:01 on CH-2 and hill, and say what they are doing, that
11:15:06 they are doing it, that they are complying, that they
11:15:08 are meeting their assertions, and that type of thing.
11:15:12 And because frankly, we won't necessarily see these
11:15:18 big ticket items, you know, that often because after a
11:15:21 whale we are going to have approved the bulk of them.
11:15:24 Okay.
11:15:24 So it won't be regularly on our schedule.
11:15:28 And then those contracts will be continuing on.
11:15:31 But I was thinking it's an opportunity to just say how
11:15:34 you are doing with WMBE hiring.
11:15:40 Just a thought.
11:15:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Madam Chair, let me just say, that
11:15:46 won't work.
11:15:51 Here again, one is, when they do bids, they are
11:15:54 required to list out -- isn't that right?
11:15:58 When you come to the city, they have to do that.
11:16:03 I know how this works, okay?
11:16:04 I have been doing it for eleven years.

11:16:06 So they are required to submit those persons in a good
11:16:08 faith effort, whoever they are.
11:16:10 That's number one.
11:16:10 So they know.
11:16:11 They already know.
11:16:12 And they know what the contract amount is.
11:16:14 That's number one.
11:16:15 Number two, when it comes on our agenda, it's
11:16:20 information for us because we can't wait a month later
11:16:22 to hear from Greg.
11:16:24 We have already awarded the contract by then.
11:16:25 So it would be helpful that we have the information
11:16:30 backup, you know, as councilwoman said, and I am not
11:16:34 singling out CH-2, I mean, it's just that they got a
11:16:39 big contract on the agenda today, and I'm just saying,
11:16:45 Mr. Daignault, it would be helpful to us, and we know
11:16:49 in the backup material, who these firms are, and that
11:16:53 WMBE is participating.
11:16:55 That's all we are asking.
11:16:56 >>> We can do it.
11:16:58 Be glad to.
11:16:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you want to move 19 and 29?

11:17:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move 19 and 29.
11:17:05 >> Second.
11:17:06 (Motion carried).
11:17:08 >>GWEN MILLER: We now go to finance.
11:17:11 Mr. Dingfelder.
11:17:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
11:17:15 I move item 33, 34, 36 through 42.
11:17:23 And 47.
11:17:35 8 motion and second.
11:17:36 (Motion carried).
11:17:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I need to recuse myself from 43
11:17:41 through 46 as they -- my wife is doing work with the
11:17:45 Italian club on the festival Italian O.
11:17:58 >> Did you want to say something?
11:18:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Going back, I want to add on 39 and 40
11:18:04 and I'll tell you why.
11:18:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move the items that Mr.
11:18:09 Dingfelder just recused himself, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46.
11:18:13 >> Second.
11:18:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
11:18:15 (Motion carried).

11:18:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 39 and 40 I want to go ahead and put
11:18:23 those back in.
11:18:24 I talked with Mr. Spearman.
11:18:26 And I pulled those items to see how we were doing on
11:18:29 terms of minority participation.
11:18:30 And it is my understanding that this company, the
11:18:34 Hayes construction company, has done an outstanding
11:18:38 job in approving WMBE funds so that's the kind of
11:18:41 information that's very helpful.
11:18:42 So I want to go ahead and move those two.
11:18:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move 39 and 40.
11:18:47 >> Second.
11:18:48 (Motion carried).
11:18:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I was just going to say although I
11:18:52 agree with Reverend Scott and everyone else, I have
11:18:55 never supported these kind of contracts because they
11:18:59 have a 4% override in the beginning.
11:19:01 When you look at 4% of a million dollars, there's 40
11:19:04 that you on each contract for one contract, two
11:19:07 contracts, three contracts, that carry an overload of

11:19:09 4%.
11:19:10 So I will be voting no on 39 and 40.
11:19:12 >> Okay.
11:19:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just collar paying.
11:19:21 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda voting no.
11:19:24 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
11:19:25 Building and zoning.
11:19:26 Mr. Joseph Caetano.
11:19:28 We need Reverend Scott to do that.
11:19:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would like to move 48 through -- 68.
11:19:42 Thank you, Madam Chair.
11:19:43 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:19:45 (Motion carried).
11:19:46 >> I didn't get the second on that.
11:19:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
11:19:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Mary Mulhern, transportation.
11:20:04 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 69 through 85.
11:20:13 >> Second.
11:20:14 (Motion carried).
11:20:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move items 86 through 95 setting

11:20:20 for fought public hearings.
11:20:21 >> Second.
11:20:22 (Motion carried).
11:20:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Now we go to the zoo.
11:20:29 We did it.
11:20:30 Now we need to go to the TECO franchise.
11:20:35 What number is that one?
11:20:37 109?
11:20:40 Okay.
11:20:43 Anyone speaking on 109?
11:20:45 >> Yes.
11:20:46 He's just coming in.
11:20:54 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
11:21:00 I know Tom Cloud is up watching so hopefully he will
11:21:04 note that and come on down.
11:21:07 Basically, you had asked for a report exploring the
11:21:10 options in terms of the length of the term of the
11:21:14 agreement, undergrounding, and other matters that
11:21:17 could be looked at in the franchise agreement, as well
11:21:20 as an update on MacKay Bay and the lighting agreement.
11:21:26 I sent awe memorandum dated February 29, 2008, as to

11:21:30 the negotiability of the various aspects of the
11:21:33 franchise agreement.
11:21:38 One view is that everything is negotiable.
11:21:43 Those areas that are preempted by state and federal
11:21:46 law we haven't attempted to negotiate.
11:21:48 The difference is, obviously, you can seek to have the
11:21:54 utility provide you things they are not obligated to
11:21:57 provide you, but we did not take that approach.
11:22:00 We thought it was appropriate to stick with the
11:22:04 constraints.
11:22:05 There are some things we cannot do no matter what.
11:22:08 And there's not much difference there.
11:22:13 And we don't need to elaborate that right now and I'll
11:22:16 tell you why.
11:22:20 Although the memorandum outlines the main points I am
11:22:23 not recommending we have that discussion today.
11:22:24 And the reason is, I would like to update you on
11:22:27 MacKay Bay.
11:22:29 It has been our position, the position of this
11:22:30 department and I believe the position of the
11:22:31 administration, that we need to move this franchise
11:22:36 agreement in conjunction with what we are doing on

11:22:38 MacKay Bay and what we are doing in conjunction with
11:22:41 the lighting agreement.
11:22:42 Main Street document are inextricably delayed.
11:22:45 We believe in a comprehensive manner address the
11:22:47 issues for the City of Tampa.
11:22:49 We also believe one without the other causes a
11:22:52 significant concern, and that we would not be in a
11:22:55 position to recommend the franchise agreement unless
11:22:58 we know what's going to happen in these two other
11:23:00 agreements.
11:23:00 Let me tell you what's going on in MacKay Bay.
11:23:03 It became evident when we had our meeting that there
11:23:06 was a very strong difference of opinion as to what was
11:23:09 agreed to.
11:23:11 So essentially, after we exchanged our various views
11:23:15 on what that agreement really was there, was little
11:23:18 else to do other than to see if we can arrive at a new
11:23:22 understanding of what bases we can best move forward.
11:23:26 So that discussion has been ongoing.
11:23:31 Rich, who many of you may know has been working for
11:23:33 the city for probably 20, 22 years, as long as we have
11:23:36 had MacKay Bay, he has always done our refuse to

11:23:39 energy work, he's an expert in the area, he's
11:23:42 excellent.
11:23:42 And I believe he's talking primarily with Bruce
11:23:46 Christmas of the portion of the Tampa Electric Company
11:23:48 that details with this type of a matter.
11:23:50 They have to keep certain things because of regulatory
11:23:54 concerns.
11:23:54 And we received a proposal yesterday, that is an
11:23:58 intent to provide a little bit more consideration to
11:24:01 the city than what the position was when we last met.
11:24:07 Not the position we thought we agreed to but the
11:24:09 position they said they thought they agreed to.
11:24:12 So we haven't had a real chance to evaluate that very
11:24:14 much at all.
11:24:15 We just got it yesterday.
11:24:16 And Rich is looking at that issue and looking at
11:24:19 whether we can have some alternative solutions to the
11:24:22 nature of the problem presented by not having a MacKay
11:24:24 Bay agreement, and if we can solve that problem and
11:24:27 not make that an issue with respect to the franchise
11:24:29 agreement some, so much the better.
11:24:32 The lighting agreement has now finally been scheduled

11:24:35 for discussions to begin in late April, early May, so
11:24:39 there will be meetings among the various parties of
11:24:41 the city, and the various parties of Tampa Electric
11:24:43 Company, to discuss the types of things to be
11:24:46 addressed in the lighting agreement.
11:24:48 It seems as though there are some things that will be
11:24:50 agreeable, some things that will not be, and some
11:24:53 things that will need PSA approval.
11:24:55 My point of all of this is to let you know where we
11:24:58 are.
11:24:59 My recommendation at this juncture is because we have
11:25:02 a lot of progress yet to make on MacKay Bay and the
11:25:06 lighting agreement, that we schedule your first
11:25:09 hearing on the ordinance the first week in June, not
11:25:12 the first week in April.
11:25:14 We think the first week in April is woefully
11:25:17 premature.
11:25:18 We are not prepared to go forward on that basis, and
11:25:21 do not believe that we should go forward on that base,
11:25:24 for all the reasons we have explained to you before.
11:25:27 Now, there are some specific questions with regard to
11:25:30 some of the specific concerns raised, either by the

11:25:33 communications you have received from constituents, or
11:25:36 your personal concerns or questions about the
11:25:38 franchise agreement and what we can and cannot do.
11:25:41 We can address those issues if you would like.
11:25:46 But as I say, our recommendation is that you postpone
11:25:49 this to the first meeting in June or third meeting in
11:25:52 June if you so prefer and give you agent more
11:25:54 opportunity to also become more conversant on some of
11:25:57 these issues as well.
11:25:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Reverend Scott.
11:26:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Help me understand what's really going
11:26:03 on here.
11:26:08 Administration has negotiated this contract for the
11:26:10 last two and a half years.
11:26:11 Is that true?
11:26:13 >>DAVID SMITH: More or less.
11:26:14 There's periods ever time where they disappeared and
11:26:19 negotiations weren't very active.
11:26:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:26:25 And contracts are brought to us, what, seven months
11:26:28 ago now, right?
11:26:29 >>DAVID SMITH: It was quite awhile ago.

11:26:31 >> Quite awhile we have had this.
11:26:33 (Bell sounds).
11:26:34 Now, the position is that we move it back to June.
11:26:39 >>> Yes, sir.
11:26:40 >> I'm not totally in agreement with that, because
11:26:42 then we are right on our break time, the first of
11:26:47 July.
11:26:47 Okay.
11:26:50 The issue, way heard you say is a more lucrative one
11:26:56 put on the table as to MacKay Bay which is a separate
11:27:01 document.
11:27:02 Is that accurate?
11:27:03 >>> Not entirely.
11:27:05 Part of our problem is the franchise agreement
11:27:07 deals -- actually does not deal with the issue.
11:27:11 What we can do.
11:27:13 One of the reasons why MacKay Bay came up as a concern
11:27:17 is that we wanted to make sure that when that
11:27:20 agreement expires in 2007 or 2013, whenever it is, we
11:27:24 know what will happen at that point in time because
11:27:26 the franchise agreement is a 25-year agreement.
11:27:30 We had what we thought was an understanding with

11:27:32 respect to what would happen.
11:27:33 And that is, that agreement would essentially be
11:27:35 continued with the existing escalation contemplated
11:27:40 under MacKay Bay under that basis, and with the view
11:27:44 that we thought we had an agreement that we would also
11:27:46 reopen that if the laws changed with respect to the
11:27:49 sale of alternative sources of energy, that closed
11:27:53 that problem.
11:27:54 We didn't need to worry about that in the franchise
11:27:56 agreement, and that we could go forward.
11:27:59 However, that understanding that we thought we had was
11:28:02 indicated by Tampa Electric to be a mistake.
11:28:05 That was not what they said.
11:28:07 Their position is that's not what they agreed to do.
11:28:10 And on that basis, we essentially went back to ground
11:28:13 zero.
11:28:14 So that's the problem for the delay right now.
11:28:18 And what the city does with its powers is very
11:28:21 important.
11:28:23 And we just wanted to make sure that we have the
11:28:26 ability to sell that power in an appropriate way for
11:28:31 the cost of the period and time we are providing in

11:28:33 the franchise agreement for.
11:28:35 Because they are the only consumer of it.
11:28:38 So what we are looking at is are there other consumers
11:28:41 and if there are and if we can deal with an
11:28:43 alternative consumer, that now gets removed as an
11:28:45 issue, vis-a-vis Tampa Electric Company.
11:28:48 Right now by all the powers.
11:28:55 >> And the issue is MacKay Bay, right?
11:28:59 >>> The issue that's holding us up right now is we
11:29:02 don't have a lighting agreement, which deals with the
11:29:05 basis on which the city as a consumer of electric
11:29:08 services establishes its relationship with Tampa
11:29:10 Electric Company.
11:29:11 So that agreement was going to be done, not as part of
11:29:16 the franchise agreement but parallel to the franchise
11:29:20 agreement.
11:29:20 That's not been done either.
11:29:23 What Tampa Electric has consistently said is if you
11:29:25 will accept the standard tariff, we are done.
11:29:29 I don't want to indicate that, you know, that's an
11:29:32 impediment.
11:29:32 But the administration, as I understand it, is looking

11:29:36 for some adjustments and some different approaches
11:29:38 under the lighting agreement than what we currently
11:29:42 have and different from what's in the standard tariff.
11:29:45 >> And the MacKay Bay, again, that issue, has that
11:29:52 been a more lucrative offer been made to the city?
11:29:55 >>> The first offer we thought we had, let's put it on
11:29:59 a scale of 1 to 100, let's say that's 100, we are very
11:30:03 happy with that offer.
11:30:04 The current offer we got, let's say on that same scale
11:30:07 maybe it's somewhere like 25.
11:30:09 I don't know where the new offer is, whether it's back
11:30:12 down at 25 --
11:30:14 >> Who is this now?
11:30:15 >>> We received it yesterday from basically Jose and
11:30:21 Bruce Christmas are working on this with Rick ZAMBO.
11:30:28 You need to also understand the communication I
11:30:30 received dealt solely with the attach ment.
11:30:32 Attachment deals with the dollars.
11:30:34 It doesn't address the agreement itself.
11:30:36 So we are still trying to find out what we are doing
11:30:39 is focusing on the dollar amount, if it makes sense
11:30:44 for us to go in that direction.

11:30:45 And if it does, I think Rich has some questions with
11:30:48 regards to the agreement itself.
11:30:49 Will it be a simple extension?
11:30:51 Will it be a restated agreement?
11:30:53 I don't know.
11:30:54 I just saw his e-mail where he responded to Mr. King
11:31:02 asking those questions.
11:31:03 >> And I was hoping at some point that we get this to
11:31:05 the public hearing so the public could have input.
11:31:07 Now, let me be clear for all of our newspaper writers
11:31:11 and editorial folk.
11:31:13 One man we get mail for, actually questions when
11:31:18 administration takes meetings, we get nailed for
11:31:23 taking questions and then holding things up, and then
11:31:25 we come back and say, well, you know, Tom Scott should
11:31:29 slow it down here because it's a 25 year -- at some
11:31:32 point, you know, either when the administration brings
11:31:35 it to us, they have done their due diligence, allow us
11:31:38 to take a look at the contract, allow us as questions,
11:31:41 and then allow us to put it out to open for public
11:31:46 hearing.
11:31:46 And move forward.

11:31:49 I think that is the process.
11:31:51 And if there's a different process, then you all need
11:31:53 to educate me about that.
11:31:55 I am for what is right for this community, for the
11:31:58 City of Tampa.
11:31:59 At the same time, I believe in being fair, okay.
11:32:02 And that's why I am always going to be.
11:32:05 And anybody can disagree with me all they want.
11:32:08 That's their prerogative.
11:32:09 But I'm about being fair to this -- to the City of
11:32:12 Tampa and to the citizens.
11:32:13 I also want to be fair to everybody who is involved,
11:32:16 make sure that we are doing what is right.
11:32:19 >>DAVID SMITH: And I agree, and part of the problem
11:32:21 was when we arrived at what we essentially was a
11:32:24 different understanding of the basis on which we were
11:32:26 proceeding, perhaps you should have just withdrawn the
11:32:29 submittal, and that is an alternative.
11:32:30 I think the administration would withdraw the
11:32:33 submittal, and maybe they will do that.
11:32:34 I don't know.
11:32:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Madam Chairman.

11:32:38 A couple of points.
11:32:39 I want to make sure that before this comes back to us
11:32:42 in June we have an opportunity, via a staff report,
11:32:46 maybe the council meeting prior to that, to be up to
11:32:50 speed on the proposal so we have a chance to look at
11:32:52 it.
11:32:53 And most important, the public, the community, has a
11:32:55 chance to look at the proposal prior to the first
11:32:58 public hearing, because this is a 25-year commitment
11:33:02 and it will literally shape our community.
11:33:04 It's very important.
11:33:06 >>DAVID SMITH: Agreed.
11:33:07 And one of the things I think we need to do is explain
11:33:10 in detail to you, when we indicate there's an area of
11:33:14 state preemption let's make sure we have indicated to
11:33:17 you the extent of the preemption so that you will know
11:33:19 what's not preempted, you will understand what the
11:33:22 nature of the proposed agreement is, what compromises
11:33:26 the city has made, what compromises Tampa Electric has
11:33:31 made, so you can evaluate the quality of the
11:33:33 transaction.
11:33:34 >> That would be very valuable.

11:33:36 Secondly, when you discuss lighting, I think it's
11:33:38 absolutely critical that Wilson Stair, our urban
11:33:42 design manager, be present at the meetings because he
11:33:45 has spoken to me in the past about the -- about
11:33:48 concerns about the limitations on this in our current
11:33:52 agreement, and as we move Ford in the future we need
11:33:56 to make sure we have a better agreement than we
11:33:58 currently have.
11:33:59 And lastly, I hope that you will take the opportunity
11:34:03 to meet with the public.
11:34:05 I have heard from a number of people who are very
11:34:07 concerned about this.
11:34:07 There's been one public meeting, and prior to come
11:34:10 back in June, I hope there will be another opportunity
11:34:13 to speak with the public and educate them about what
11:34:19 choices have been made and what fought considerations
11:34:21 are.
11:34:21 >>DAVID SMITH: Yes, ma'am.
11:34:23 And to the extent we have been contacted we have
11:34:25 attended those public forums.
11:34:27 >> Very appreciative.
11:34:29 Thank you very much.

11:34:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I was in the back doing other work,
11:34:33 and I listened to the Reverend Scott.
11:34:37 If we do have another suiter for MacKay Bay to buy
11:34:43 electricity at a higher rate there's only one decision
11:34:46 to make.
11:34:48 If I'm selling a used car -- and I'm not saying this
11:34:50 is a used car -- and I have an offer of $100 and
11:34:53 somebody offers me $125, I'm compelled to sell my used
11:34:57 car for $125 to get the best return for my family.
11:35:01 This is the same thing for the city.
11:35:03 I'm putting in a it real small terms so we understand
11:35:07 what's going on.
11:35:08 I can also tell you that I'm hired by the City of
11:35:11 Tampa, not by this company that we are dealing with or
11:35:14 any other company there is.
11:35:15 However, I must make some statements.
11:35:18 When you talk about overhead trees, and wires, why did
11:35:24 this happen?
11:35:26 You have to say, how is this possible?
11:35:28 Well, please correct me if I am wrong in the legal
11:35:31 department.
11:35:32 It is possible because the ordinance is read, and I'm

11:35:35 not sure if it reads the same way now, that you
11:35:37 couldn't plant trees on public property.
11:35:41 You had to plant the trees on public right-of-way.
11:35:43 And what was over the public right-of-way?
11:35:46 A two-inch tree goes to a four-inch tree, four-inch
11:35:49 tree goes to a 20-inch tree and all of a sudden you
11:35:55 have an oak covering the wire.
11:35:58 You are in a hurricane or strong wind.
11:35:59 The risk of public safety is greater.
11:36:02 But we in government, no, you can't put it over here
11:36:08 in the public right-of-way.
11:36:09 Well, we have been planting 1100 trees for the last
11:36:13 ten years, or at least a thousand if I recall.
11:36:15 And I think this administration carried the same thing
11:36:18 forward that the other administration had.
11:36:20 So are we still planting trees on public rights-of-way
11:36:23 under wires?
11:36:24 Electrical wires?
11:36:26 Transforming wires?
11:36:29 Wires that carry a lot of voltage?
11:36:31 Wires that can do damage to the public health?
11:36:39 >>DAVID SMITH: Are we currently planting trees under

11:36:41 electric power lines? It's my understanding from the
11:36:43 people in administration that process has been
11:36:46 stopped.
11:36:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I commend the administration and I
11:36:51 commend you for giving me this administration.
11:36:54 When was it stopped, last week or last year?
11:36:56 >>DAVID SMITH: I don't know the answer.
11:37:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm only saying that in jest.
11:37:05 It's about tame we stop.
11:37:06 How can we say we are going to help plant trees for
11:37:13 less of this, make this more livable and then you
11:37:15 plant them in the right-of-way.
11:37:16 I have the same problem with sidewalks.
11:37:17 I don't quite understand.
11:37:19 I go home and I'm baffled sometimes.
11:37:21 But I understand that.
11:37:23 Thank you very much.
11:37:23 I appreciate that.
11:37:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't know if I can totally agree
11:37:28 with your conclusion, David.
11:37:30 I think what I recall is we are still planting trees
11:37:32 in the right-of-way but we are smarter about it and we

11:37:34 are planting appropriate trees in the right-of-way,
11:37:36 trees that are on the list that aren't going to grow
11:37:39 up into the wires.
11:37:41 So just a clarification.
11:37:43 I think if we are planting trees we are doing it
11:37:45 smarter.
11:37:46 But my point was this.
11:37:47 And Tom, if I could have you come up for a second.
11:37:50 This is our special counsel from Orlando on this
11:37:54 issue.
11:37:58 Tom, what I am wondering about is we heard about the
11:38:00 term of the agreement, 25 years.
11:38:03 I think previously it was, what, 30 something?
11:38:05 >>> No, it was 20.
11:38:07 >> 20 years.
11:38:08 Okay.
11:38:10 It's a long-term.
11:38:20 You do a lot of these around the state.
11:38:22 Is it in the city's best interest in the long-term
11:38:25 especially when so many of these issues are in flux
11:38:27 and regulatory, and effects and everything else.
11:38:34 And I know that that point has sort already been

11:38:38 negotiated but at the end of the day it's council that
11:38:41 has to approve it.
11:38:42 Is that something that we possibly should look at?
11:38:45 And what's the best interest of the city?
11:38:46 >>> Well, when we originally brought forward the
11:38:52 draft, we thought we had agreement on a pretty big
11:38:54 issue.
11:38:56 There's a chain of e-mails that tends to support what
11:39:00 we thought our agreement was.
11:39:02 Now we understand we were mistaken.
11:39:08 We were mistaken because of change of position by the
11:39:10 other party or because we misheard and misread and
11:39:18 mis-everything else that were not relevant because
11:39:21 they are clearly taking the position that's not what
11:39:23 the deal was, so in light of that, I would say that it
11:39:27 is an issue to be looked at.
11:39:31 I also want to add that I am not aware of any
11:39:33 franchise in the State of Florida that is less than 15
11:39:36 years.
11:39:37 The vast majority of them are 30 years in length.
11:39:40 And the value of the franchise fee historically has
11:39:44 been tied to the length of the franchise.

11:39:48 So it probably doesn't make much sense for Tampa
11:39:52 Electric Company to talk about a term that's less than
11:39:56 20, from their standpoint, that's the term that they
11:40:00 have had.
11:40:02 But, you know, I think that extra five years now, in
11:40:05 my mind, because of what I believe is a change in
11:40:08 position, is in flux.
11:40:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So reading between the lines of
11:40:15 what you say it's in the city's best interest to have
11:40:17 somewhat of a shorter term?
11:40:19 >>> It can be, unless there are other terms that make
11:40:22 it worth the city's while to consider allowing a
11:40:26 longer term.
11:40:26 >> So that issue might be played out between now and
11:40:29 June?
11:40:30 >>> Yes, sir.
11:40:30 >> Thank you.
11:40:31 >>MARY MULHERN: Can I ask you a question?
11:40:37 >>> Yes, ma'am.
11:40:37 >> This is very optimistic but it's following up on
11:40:40 what Mr. Dingfelder was talking about the term.
11:40:43 Given the global situation with energy and

11:40:47 conservation and oil prices and scarcity and new
11:40:51 technology, we are in kind of a different time than we
11:40:56 were 25 years ago, and we arrived -- I mean, it seems
11:41:02 to me that we might have a reason to shorten it, that
11:41:05 might not be historically the way these were written.
11:41:08 But the fact that we may have different needs and
11:41:15 different opportunity in the future, alternative
11:41:19 energy sources.
11:41:20 >>> My response to that would be the city has no input
11:41:25 into the conservation policies as they relate to how
11:41:32 they set rate and doesn't really have impact on that.
11:41:41 Do I agree with you that a lot is going on that
11:41:43 everyone in this country needs to be aware of?
11:41:45 Absolutely.
11:41:46 I don't think it's an issue for the franchise.
11:41:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Reverend Scott.
11:41:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Tom Hernandez.
11:42:01 I want to ask a question.
11:42:02 Where are you all with this in terms of MacKay Bay?
11:42:07 Can you address some of these concerns, issues?
11:42:12 >>> Yes.
11:42:13 Tom Hernandez, Tampa Electric.

11:42:16 I appreciate the opportunity to speak here.
11:42:18 I will respectfully disagree with some of the comments
11:42:20 made, and will clarify the position.
11:42:23 I'll first answer your question related to the MacKay
11:42:26 Bay contract.
11:42:28 MacKay Bay contract was entered into the now expired
11:42:35 franchise agreement, has nothing to do with the
11:42:37 franchise agreement.
11:42:38 During the negotiations -- and I mentioned this at the
11:42:40 last meeting -- there was an addendum independent of
11:42:43 the franchise agreement that was made for an
11:42:46 additional three megawatts at different terms. To
11:42:50 clarify the position on the QF contract, the purchase
11:42:54 power agreement that is subject to Public Service
11:42:55 Commission review and approval, which we clearly
11:42:58 stated multiple times, we cannot pay more than the
11:43:01 avoided cost.
11:43:04 That has been the rule.
11:43:05 Mr. Zambro that has been referenced has been in place.
11:43:12 We never offered to pay more than avoided cost and is
11:43:15 clear about that.
11:43:16 The existing agreement has a capacity energy payment.

11:43:23 The original component, the first 15 megawatts or so
11:43:26 were based on a unit pricing scale -- that was the
11:43:30 standard offer, the basis for any co-generation
11:43:30 contract in the state.
11:43:36 When we entered into the amended agreement, a year and
11:43:40 a half or so ago, for the smaller megawatts that was
11:43:45 based on our current avoided unit which is a
11:43:47 combustion turbine.
11:43:48 The combustion turbine -- unit of high capacity and
11:43:54 energy saving, a combustion turbine has less use,
11:43:57 higher energy payments, low capacity.
11:44:01 What we offered is consistent with what we stated in
11:44:03 multiple meetings.
11:44:04 We were going to take the existing terms and calculate
11:44:07 them.
11:44:07 And that is exactly what we offered originally.
11:44:12 The offer that was just received takes us right up to
11:44:14 our avoided cost.
11:44:16 Any moneys could most disallowed and most likely be
11:44:21 disallowed, and I refer to the public commission
11:44:24 staff.
11:44:24 And there was a recent decision made by very small 5

11:44:30 megawatt proposal by Florida Power and Light, and the
11:44:35 staff position and Florida Public Service Commission
11:44:37 was you cannot recover cost above avoided cost, and
11:44:39 that has been our position from the get-go.
11:44:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And the Public Service Commission said
11:44:43 that as well?
11:44:44 >>> Yes, sir. Absolutely.
11:44:46 And we never indicated anything differently.
11:44:49 What we received was an offer sheet that was embedded
11:44:52 in the existing agreement that expired in 2004.
11:44:56 Those were terms that were not consistent with what I
11:44:59 just stated.
11:45:01 So, yes, if there was a misunderstanding, I believe
11:45:05 that was the case.
11:45:07 I will also say, to Councilman Miranda's hypothetical,
11:45:13 if the city can get more than what we are offering,
11:45:17 they are welcome to do that, and Tampa Electric will
11:45:19 certainly not hold up a good deal for the city to get
11:45:24 the franchise done, but I will say, which is why it's
11:45:31 always going to be independent, but I will tell you
11:45:32 right now, if you get an offer that's double our
11:45:34 offer, go get it. We'll relieve you of those

11:45:35 requirements.
11:45:37 I will also state, to clarify the position, Tampa
11:45:39 Electric is the one that asked for an agreement, not
11:45:43 the city, so there is no agreement with the city, that
11:45:46 is that we operate as though you are all under the
11:45:46 standard offer. We simply ask the city to sign the
11:45:54 existing standard offer as Mr. Smith indicated.
11:45:57 That's why we asked.
11:45:58 We asked for it.
11:45:59 Not the city.
11:46:00 Now, we have talked about process issues.
11:46:03 We have talked about other opportunities to provide
11:46:05 services.
11:46:06 We said we will review that.
11:46:08 If it's a service that makes sense, we'll offer it.
11:46:10 But it's got to be at an amended contract. It's no
11:46:13 longer a standard care.
11:46:14 If you want different structures, we'll take a look at
11:46:17 it.
11:46:17 But we don't have to offer something different than
11:46:21 what's in our tariff.
11:46:21 The city at its discretion can put up any light it

11:46:28 wants that meets code.
11:46:28 That's why I have always asserted there's three
11:46:33 independent agreements.
11:46:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
11:46:39 I finally got a little straight talk here, but up to
11:46:41 this point I can't say unequivocally that I understand
11:46:44 what's going on because nothing has been said.
11:46:46 They talk in rhythm and rhyme and maybe and if this
11:46:50 happens and this.
11:46:50 I don't deal that way.
11:46:52 I need facts.
11:46:54 I need the facts from both sides to tell me this is
11:46:57 what we got on A and this is what B says.
11:47:01 That they are not going to do on A and this is what A
11:47:03 says they are not going to do on B.
11:47:05 The A being the city and the B being the provider in
11:47:09 this case, TECO.
11:47:10 So if I can have a one-page, I don't need 300 pages to
11:47:15 read.
11:47:16 A one-page of where the differences are, and what it
11:47:21 comes through, I don't think we have to wait 14 more
11:47:23 years to get this done.

11:47:25 But if we get one page that says here's where the
11:47:28 differences are and here is how it can be worked out,
11:47:31 I think it can be worked out.
11:47:32 But we have two diametrically opposite sides.
11:47:39 I don't know if there's another suiter to MacKay Bay.
11:47:43 That's what the walls at City Hall told me.
11:47:45 I don't know if it's true or not.
11:47:47 >>> Again councilman Miranda, if you have a better
11:47:49 offer, or an existing agreement --
11:47:53 >> If I have an offer I am going to take it whether
11:47:55 you believe me or not.
11:47:57 >>> That's good for the city.
11:47:59 Our understanding was that the city was looking for
11:48:00 some certainty beyond expiration.
11:48:02 And we said we would put together a presentation --
11:48:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm trying to get this thing worked
11:48:08 out so that this is not dragged out for another three
11:48:13 or four years.
11:48:14 I would like to see this synopsis that's closing down,
11:48:17 no more dangling participles at the end and that
11:48:21 contained of stuff to say, now, at the end we can say
11:48:24 we did something good, we lowered our insurance rate

11:48:27 on the automobile.
11:48:27 I don't know what to say anymore.
11:48:29 I mean, if this can be worked out, fine.
11:48:33 But give us something.
11:48:35 Give the seven individuals something to look at to say
11:48:37 these are the very -- and I know you tried in the
11:48:40 past.
11:48:41 But they are too convoluted for all to understand
11:48:44 what's going on.
11:48:45 >> Just to be clear, what we have offered subject to
11:48:47 way said on avoided cost and cost recovery, we can't
11:48:50 go any higher.
11:48:51 We have taken all the differences out.
11:48:54 We are not suggesting that we are going to --
11:48:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Then at least you and the city
11:48:59 attorney get together and just give a little itemized
11:49:06 thing saying this is it.
11:49:07 >>> Yes, sir, that's easily done to prepare the
11:49:10 difference if that's what you are asking.
11:49:12 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
11:49:12 >>DAVID SMITH: Rather than get into an unfortunate
11:49:18 discussion I will just indicate that I don't agree

11:49:19 with much of what you just heard but we'll leave that
11:49:22 alone.
11:49:22 The reason I'm suggesting we go to June rather than
11:49:25 withdrawing it is because I want to see what we can do
11:49:27 to work it out.
11:49:28 We may not be able to get the deal that we thought we
11:49:30 had.
11:49:31 And if that's the case we'll take a worse deal.
11:49:33 But we need to make sure that we are clear on that.
11:49:36 And if we can recommend it to this council that they
11:49:38 in fact have a deal that's different than what we
11:49:43 thought we had, you need to hear from Rich, the expert
11:49:46 in this area in regard to MacKay Bay, but I suggest
11:49:51 let's move this to June, let's see if we can work out
11:49:53 the issue on MacKay Bay.
11:49:55 I'm confident that there's a distinct possibility to
11:49:58 do so.
11:49:58 The issue, I won't address some of the other issues.
11:50:01 We'll let them lay there.
11:50:03 So I would recommend we do that, and hopefully we'll
11:50:06 get it done by June.
11:50:11 I believe that's your first meeting in June.

11:50:13 I think that's fine.
11:50:14 >>CHAIRMAN: We need a motion.
11:50:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
11:50:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I was going to say -- that's fine.
11:50:22 But I want, Mr. Smith, here again, I want this issue
11:50:25 so we can have a public hearing on it.
11:50:27 But also keep in mind here, it is a risk factor.
11:50:36 It like the market, you know, the interest rate is
11:50:38 going up.
11:50:39 For those of us who watch our CDs, and certain terms,
11:50:44 well, interest rates started going back down.
11:50:46 And if you didn't lock in you took a risk.
11:50:48 Do you see what I'm saying?
11:50:50 So either way, you know, it's a risky issue here.
11:50:55 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to continue
11:50:58 to June 5th.
11:50:59 (Motion carried).
11:51:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to make a motion that
11:51:04 at our Thursday, May 22nd meeting, which is our
11:51:09 workshop meeting prior to that, that we have -- excuse
11:51:15 me, the week prayer to that would be May 15th.

11:51:22 Is that the council meeting?
11:51:25 What is the City Council meeting prior to May 22nd?
11:51:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The 15th.
11:51:31 >> Our May 15th meeting under staff reports we get
11:51:34 a written summation to Mr. Miranda.
11:51:40 >> Second.
11:51:41 (Motion carried).
11:51:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you have the ordinance?
11:51:49 >>STEVE MICHELINI: The ordinance is back.
11:51:50 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to go to Drew Park, the concern
11:51:58 you had.
11:52:01 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone)... they are really
11:52:06 discussion items.
11:52:08 >>GWEN MILLER: They need to move --
11:52:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to see if we can move these
11:52:14 other ones.
11:52:15 >> Move item 8.
11:52:16 >> Second.
11:52:17 (Motion carried).
11:52:17 >> Wait, wait, wait.

11:52:19 No, no.
11:52:20 We are not moving it.
11:52:22 Hold I pulled to the discuss it.
11:52:26 I'm going back to a couple of other items.
11:52:29 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
11:52:30 We'll do 8.
11:52:31 Let's talk about 8.
11:52:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I misunderstood.
11:52:44 >>MARY MULHERN: Number 8 is the Drew Park.
11:52:48 Drew Park.
11:52:48 Right.
11:52:49 I have some questions which were not addressed or
11:52:55 weren't answered to my satisfaction about this.
11:52:59 One of them, the CRA is asking to some amount of money
11:53:12 without having presented it to their citizens advisory
11:53:18 board.
11:53:21 >>MARY MULHERN: We talked about this.
11:53:25 The citizens advisory group.
11:53:27 What do we call it?
11:53:28 Advisory board.
11:53:30 They haven't had a chance to vote on this.
11:53:32 >>> Jeanette La Russa Fenton, CRA Drew Park manager.

11:53:39 This was part of a larger budget item that was
11:53:41 approved, if you recall the Drew Park CRA, FY-08
11:53:45 budget had $628,000 allocated for a large line item
11:53:49 called neighborhood improvement.
11:53:51 And specifically stated within that line item was
11:53:55 adult use enforcement.
11:53:57 So now we are simply, out of that $628,000,
11:54:01 appropriating the 132,000-some dollars that is a
11:54:07 specific dollar amount for this operation.
11:54:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
11:54:10 But my problem with that is that that's a good amount,
11:54:13 that's a good proportion of that.
11:54:15 One fifth of all the money they have for neighborhood
11:54:17 improvements.
11:54:18 And I think that they should be able to weigh in on
11:54:21 that.
11:54:23 So I don't know, you know, if there's that big a rush,
11:54:28 your next board meeting, that could be something that
11:54:30 they could vote on.
11:54:34 >>> Actually in the conversations, the Drew Park
11:54:37 advisory committee has had many conversation busy this
11:54:39 issue.

11:54:40 It's their highest priority.
11:54:42 The discussions were in excess of $200,000.
11:54:46 So they were prepared to authorize and have approved a
11:54:51 program that was in excess of $200,000, and this is
11:54:55 actually a scaled-down version of that.
11:54:58 >>MARY MULHERN: But we just approved or just -- you
11:55:01 just got a new advisory board, right?
11:55:04 >>> That's correct.
11:55:05 >> And they haven't seen this.
11:55:08 >>> They have not.
11:55:09 But that's the case with all the CRA advisory
11:55:11 committees.
11:55:12 Many things -- our budget was passed by the previous
11:55:15 board.
11:55:15 >>MARY MULHERN: I just don't see what would be so
11:55:20 difficult by delaying this a couple weeks, you know,
11:55:24 and bringing it back after your board is able to see
11:55:28 the specific amount of money for that.
11:55:30 Especially because the bore has changed.
11:55:35 If it were the same people you are saying recommended
11:55:38 it, it would be more reassuring.
11:55:41 My other problems and questions with this, I'm not

11:55:44 sure that this is the best, you know, as the CRA and
11:55:49 City Council looking at the CRA TIF money being spent,
11:55:58 overtime police work, when it could come from the
11:56:00 general fund.
11:56:01 I mean, this seems lake actual regular policing that
11:56:06 should be happening anyway, instead of taking those
11:56:11 precious CRA dollars and spending it on base you can
11:56:15 city responsibility, and again that's why your board
11:56:22 should talk about it because they are going to want us
11:56:24 to say what they want us to spend money on.
11:56:28 And my other problem with it is it seems like a lot of
11:56:32 money to spend on something that is not necessarily
11:56:38 going to have any lasting effect.
11:56:40 It's the kind of thing where you get it cleaned up,
11:56:43 and you keep the same establishments there, they are
11:56:49 just going to wait and start again, or you get rid of
11:56:51 them and you have somebody else moving in.
11:56:59 I just thought a representative of that neighborhood,
11:57:01 you know, and the city, I don't think it's a great use
11:57:05 of our funds.
11:57:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Representative of Drew Park
11:57:12 district 6, I can tell you this, that what was

11:57:15 presented this morning is correct, that is the number
11:57:17 one item that Drew Park citizens, residents, business
11:57:22 owners, are looking at to find out what's going on.
11:57:26 There has been a lot of information given that has
11:57:31 been going on.
11:57:32 I can't tell you of a greater need for an area that is
11:57:37 prime for redevelopment, prime to have an opportunity
11:57:39 to catch up with the rest of the city, prime to forget
11:57:44 about the drainage ditches that we spent over a
11:57:48 million dollar on a grant we got from the state
11:57:49 government, prime to have a change of attitude, prime
11:57:53 to have the expansion of the airport that is moving
11:57:58 eastwardly to Hesperides, prime to have the new road
11:58:02 that goes from MLK through 100 yards west of
11:58:06 Hesperides and makes the transportation much clearer,
11:58:10 much precise, prime to have an opportunity for an area
11:58:14 that's been neglected for years, prime to give them a
11:58:20 chance to finally come up, and prime to say it is our
11:58:26 turn to get something back.
11:58:29 Why am I saying this?
11:58:30 When we took office in April, guess what happened.
11:58:34 Somebody passed a budget in September of the previous

11:58:38 year.
11:58:38 We didn't stop government and say we are going to do
11:58:41 this.
11:58:41 And I understand the concerns.
11:58:43 But if you pull all those numbers in the CRA district,
11:58:49 it will pass, maybe unanimously, who knows?
11:58:53 So I am not going to vote to hold this any longer.
11:58:57 This has been talked about for months.
11:58:59 And it something that we need to address.
11:59:04 I understand the concerns.
11:59:05 But I think the necessity, the needs, the
11:59:11 understanding of what we are dealing with, is much
11:59:13 greater than concerns we have today.
11:59:18 Thank you very much.
11:59:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I agree with you on all those things
11:59:21 that we should be doing them for Drew Park.
11:59:23 I just don't understand why we are doing that with CRA
11:59:26 dollars.
11:59:31 And I think if the neighborhood wants to see that, why
11:59:34 can't we wait?
11:59:35 When is the next meeting of the advisory board?
11:59:37 >>> It is next week, March 27 at 5:30.

11:59:40 >> So if we continue this to our next council meeting,
11:59:43 they would have a chance to vote on it.
11:59:51 >>CHAIRMAN: They will not have met next week.
11:59:54 Next Thursday at 5:30.
11:59:56 >> Our next regular council meeting is in two weeks.
11:59:58 >>GWEN MILLER: You said next week.
12:00:00 >>MARY MULHERN: No, I said at the next council
12:00:01 meeting.
12:00:05 How about if we just vote on that?
12:00:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move item number 8.
12:00:11 Is there anything else?
12:00:17 I have the floor.
12:00:18 I didn't mention anybody's name when I spoke.
12:00:20 Let me say I'm smarter than make mentioning somebody
12:00:23 else's name and you get the floor.
12:00:28 Is there anything else I should ask?
12:00:30 >>> Only a clarification.
12:00:31 I do know in CRA and TIF dollars these are intended to
12:00:35 be enhancements over and above the standard city
12:00:37 services.
12:00:38 And this is what we are using the money for.
12:00:40 This is why the police officers will be doing overtime

12:00:46 work in this regard.
12:00:47 At this point, there are only two, I believe, officers
12:00:50 that do this type of operation city-wide.
12:00:53 And there is a concentration of problems in Drew Park
12:00:56 and we feel that it parents the additional effort over
12:00:59 and above the normal routine operations.
12:01:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I second it for discussion.
12:01:08 Always gives deference to the representatives of that
12:01:10 district.
12:01:10 I have done that for ten years.
12:01:12 That's why I support the motion.
12:01:13 I think councilwoman's Mary Mulhern's issue is getting
12:01:20 an advisory.
12:01:21 I agree with Mr. Miranda that you can't go back when
12:01:23 you change administrations or when you change advisory
12:01:27 board you have to go back.
12:01:30 However my issue goes beyond that.
12:01:31 I am going to support the motion.
12:01:32 But my issue is, here again, and it goes back again to
12:01:36 what we did in East Tampa, when we took CRA dollars,
12:01:41 police station, see, my thing is raising the question,
12:01:48 I would like to see what money is being spent in these

12:01:50 areas for general revenues versus CRA, because under
12:01:53 the statute, you are not supposed to supply CRA money
12:01:58 with revenue dollars.
12:02:00 (cell phone rings).
12:02:01 >> Your telephone is ringing.
12:02:04 >> Should be a sign to turn all cell phones off.
12:02:07 So here again, that's why again that issue is so
12:02:11 important.
12:02:12 And I hope council understands what I'm saying.
12:02:15 Because that is a Florida law, Florida statute.
12:02:18 And that's why I have been trying to get general
12:02:21 revenue dollars versus CRA dollars so you can look at
12:02:24 that to make sure what money South Carolina spent.
12:02:28 Other issue on this is that this is overtime which is,
12:02:31 what, time and a half.
12:02:33 And time and a half is overtime.
12:02:36 Time and a half or double time.
12:02:37 What is it?
12:02:41 So you have got to be careful here.
12:02:42 Because you spend a lot of money overtime versus
12:02:44 adding new officers, adding officers I think might be
12:02:48 less expensive.

12:02:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Caetano.
12:02:51 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Has this CRA board approved this
12:02:56 expense?
12:02:56 Are they in favor of it?
12:02:58 >>> They have approved use of TIF dollars for
12:03:03 enforcement.
12:03:03 The estimated amount that was originally discussed was
12:03:07 in excess of 200,000.
12:03:11 The program you have in front of you now is a
12:03:14 scaled-down version and roughly 132,000.
12:03:18 They have not seen that precise appropriation.
12:03:23 >> Madam Chairman, we have the power, CRA has some
12:03:26 power they can recommend to us, that if we are going
12:03:28 to -- we are going to stymy the situation here.
12:03:33 We have to get it done.
12:03:34 We can't put this on the back burner another week.
12:03:37 And let's move the question.
12:03:41 >>GWEN MILLER: One more time.
12:03:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have heard some comments and I
12:03:47 thought I had the floor after Mrs. Saul-Sena.
12:03:49 >>GWEN MILLER: All right, Mrs. Saul-Sena.
12:03:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

12:03:52 I am going to support the motion because I think two
12:03:53 weeks -- I think the principal that Reverend Scott
12:03:58 raises is a key principle, do we use CRA meeting which
12:04:05 is things above and beyond are do we use the plan?
12:04:08 It comes up as education dollars, and then offsetting
12:04:14 what is spent on education.
12:04:15 We don't want to do that.
12:04:17 We want to do something that is above and beyond.
12:04:20 And I think approval by the CRA board will make us do
12:04:23 better about spending the money in a way that they are
12:04:26 supportive of.
12:04:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
12:04:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Advisory board, I mean.
12:04:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Everybody is right on this one.
12:04:37 Sounds like a real politician.
12:04:39 But I do think it's true, that the points than Charlie
12:04:43 makes are absolutely right.
12:04:44 At the end. Day we need to do this.
12:04:46 Okay.
12:04:47 I agree with Tom Scott, that we should generally try
12:04:51 and defer to the district representative.
12:04:54 However, okay, we have three at-large representatives

12:04:57 sitting here, here and here, but that's their
12:05:02 district, too.
12:05:03 And Mary is one of them.
12:05:04 And I think if I asked is two weeks going to cause any
12:05:10 big problems?
12:05:10 Well, this thing has been sitting around.
12:05:12 I shouldn't say that.
12:05:13 This thing has been making its way through the system
12:05:15 for quite a long time.
12:05:18 And if Ms. Mulhern -- and she attends some of these
12:05:23 community advisory meetings, but to go out there next
12:05:29 Thursday night, check with the folks, I am going to
12:05:31 bet $100, if anybody would bet me, that Charlie is
12:05:34 right, that they are going to say it's wonderful, and
12:05:37 they are probably going to say spend more, but then
12:05:40 Mrs. Mulhern will have a better feeling about it and I
12:05:42 am going to offer a substitute motion.
12:05:44 My substitute motion to Mr. Miranda's motion to
12:05:46 approve, my motion is to defer to Ms. Mulhern's
12:05:51 request, I think we should all tray to defer to each
12:05:54 other when possible and doesn't cause problems and
12:05:56 bring this back two weeks from now after Jeanette

12:06:00 clears it with the committee.
12:06:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The substitute motion with a second
12:06:10 takes precedence over my motion.
12:06:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
12:06:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Question on the motion.
12:06:16 >>GWEN MILLER: We have to move on.
12:06:19 A motion to continue for two weeks.
12:06:20 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
12:06:22 Opposed, Nay.
12:06:32 Okay, roll call vote.
12:06:34 All in favor of continuing for two weeks.
12:06:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We go back to the original motion.
12:07:01 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor.
12:07:06 Mr. Miranda, would you move item 8, please?
12:07:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move item 8 on the agenda.
12:07:12 I believe seconded by Mr. Scott.
12:07:13 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern and Saul-Sena
12:07:20 voting no.
12:07:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
12:07:23 It's 12:07.
12:07:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, one very quick item for Mr.
12:07:27 Michelini.

12:07:28 The clerk did --
12:07:29 >>GWEN MILLER: We'll read that first.
12:07:31 Do you have it?
12:07:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe it needs a full council for
12:07:37 item 115.
12:07:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: move an ordinance making lawful the
12:07:51 sale of beverages containing alcohol of more than 1%
12:07:53 by weight not more than 14% by weight and wines
12:07:56 regardless of alcohol alcoholic content beer and wine
12:08:00 2(APS) only and African-American the certain lot plot
12:08:02 or tract of land located at 723 west Columbus drive,
12:08:06 Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in
12:08:07 section 2 hereof waiving certain restrictions as to
12:08:11 distance based upon certain findings, imposing certain
12:08:14 conditions, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
12:08:16 conflict providing an effective date.
12:08:18 >> We have a motion and second.
12:08:19 >>GWEN MILLER: We need voice roll call.
12:08:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
12:08:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
12:08:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No.
12:08:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.

12:08:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
12:08:33 >>MARY MULHERN: No.
12:08:35 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.
12:08:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: One-year conditional.
12:08:41 >> Motion carried with Saul-Sena, Dingfelder and
12:08:43 Mulhern voting no.
12:08:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: One-year conditional.
12:08:46 >>GWEN MILLER: We stand adjourned until 1:30.
12:08:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I meant to get these in before lunch,
12:08:56 but what I would like to do since we're breaking --
12:08:59 don't leave -- is to continue item 106 and 110, if
12:09:03 people are willing to talk about that at a later date.
12:09:05 It's really for discussion.
12:09:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Two weeks?
12:09:10 >> Yes.
12:09:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
12:09:11 >>MARY MULHERN: 107 I asked to move up. I move that
12:09:16 right now.
12:09:16 It was on the consent agenda.
12:09:19 No, wait, 107 was a staff report.
12:09:21 They are going to do it anyway.
12:09:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So we are going to continue 106 and

12:09:28 110 for two weeks.
12:09:29 Second.
12:09:30 >> Motion and second.
12:09:31 (Motion carried).
12:09:32 >>CHAIRMAN MILLER: Now we adjourn until 1:30.
The preceding represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
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Tampa City Council
Thursday, March 20, 2008
1:30 p.m. session

The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.

13:33:07 [Roll Call]
13:36:33 >> We are going to go to item 127 asking for
13:36:36 continuances.
13:36:37 Is Mr. David Smith here?
13:36:39 >> Simply asking for a continuance to work with staff
13:36:45 on a development agreement associated with it and we
13:36:48 request to give us adequate tame to meet with staff.
13:36:55 I think we have to open the public hearing.
13:36:57 >> Okay.

13:36:57 >> Motion.
13:36:59 >> Second.
13:36:59 (Motion carried).
13:37:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
13:37:01 wants to speak on the continuance of item number 127?
13:37:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to continue to April 3rd.
13:37:11 2008.
13:37:11 At the appropriate time.
13:37:13 10:00 in the morning.
13:37:14 >>CHAIRMAN: Motion and second.
13:37:16 (Motion carried).
13:37:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just a reminder with regard to the
13:37:21 consent docket, I believe items 24 and 35 are still
13:37:25 outstanding.
13:37:27 >>CHAIRMAN: We go to item 24.
13:37:43 >>: I believe Mrs. Saul-Sena wanted to speak to it.
13:37:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is legal here?
13:37:47 >> They are out in the hall.
13:37:49 >> We go to item 35.
13:37:59 Reverend Scott, too.
13:38:00 We'll keep on moving.
13:38:02 Can't do 35.

13:38:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Are you hear on 24?
13:38:08 >> Actually, we could continue this lathe till later
13:38:11 in the agenda when Ms. Cole is available.
13:38:14 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
13:38:15 We'll move to page 17, item number 96.
13:38:22 Staff report.
13:38:23 Unfinished business.
13:38:31 Tampa Police Department.
13:38:32 >> I believe you received a memorandum from the police
13:38:35 chief regarding this item.
13:38:42 >> So moved.
13:38:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I believe Mr. Scott wanted this H.I
13:38:45 think we should hold it.
13:38:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
13:38:47 We go to item number 97 then.
13:38:50 >> 97, Mr. Daignault.
13:38:52 >> A resolution we need to pass?
13:38:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Daignault was going to put a
13:38:58 signed statement on the record.
13:39:04 Need to wait till he gets here.
13:39:06 >>GWEN MILLER: 99.
13:39:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That one, I talked to Mr. Walter

13:39:14 and because of the length of our agenda today I
13:39:16 suggested we defer for about six weeks.
13:39:20 So that would be my motion.
13:39:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
13:39:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
13:39:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Don't we need to be specific about
13:39:29 the date?
13:39:30 What about May 8th?
13:39:32 May 1st.
13:39:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That works for me.
13:39:35 >>GWEN MILLER: May 1st.
13:39:38 Okay.
13:39:39 100.
13:39:44 Report.
13:39:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Guida house.
13:39:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: There's supposed to be somebody
13:39:50 here to discuss it.
13:39:51 She said she couldn't be here, that Thom Snelling
13:39:53 would be here, so I would rather wait till we get Thom
13:39:57 here.
13:39:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
13:39:58 101.

13:39:59 Legal again.
13:40:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move the resolution.
13:40:12 >> Second.
13:40:13 (Motion carried).
13:40:13 >>GWEN MILLER: 102.
13:40:19 Tampa police radios went off.
13:40:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Anybody have any questions on that?
13:40:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I read the report.
13:40:34 They still didn't address the issue.
13:40:37 They were saying there was nothing wrong with the
13:40:39 police department.
13:40:44 The issue wasn't that.
13:40:46 We had Verizon cut the lines.
13:40:48 There was no communication.
13:40:54 The issue was how do you address that in the case of
13:40:59 emergency in the future?
13:41:00 They were just saying there wasn't nothing wrong with
13:41:02 the police department system.
13:41:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Send it back.
13:41:07 >>CHAIRMAN: Get another report from them.
13:41:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Continue for two more weeks.

13:41:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the issue becomes, though, if
13:41:16 you haven't heard, and whatever the hurricane took
13:41:20 them out, how do they communicate?
13:41:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Make a motion.
13:41:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
13:41:29 (Motion carried).
13:41:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is that the motion to continue for
13:41:34 two weeks?
13:41:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Since Mr. Scott is here we could go
13:41:40 back to 96.
13:41:41 I asked that to be saved until you got back.
13:41:52 >> Sergeant.
13:41:56 >> I got a report as well, and a budgetary issue that
13:42:06 is addressed here, you have an officer who submitted
13:42:09 evidently a suggestion, and of course I have been
13:42:12 informed that it didn't follow the proper channels and
13:42:16 all that but we sent it over to the administration and
13:42:18 budget department.
13:42:19 Remember that was sent to the chief, he sent a regular
13:42:23 report and also sent it to the budget office and
13:42:26 addressed by.
13:42:29 Are those numbers accurate?

13:42:30 Is that a true savings?
13:42:33 We don't want to put in jeopardy public safety.
13:42:36 We don't want to take officers off the street.
13:42:38 But address the issue.
13:42:41 Are these numbers actual?
13:42:43 When you talk about $6 million savings, you know,
13:42:46 where are they?
13:42:47 You know, where are the $6 million?
13:42:50 And is it true?
13:42:52 How do you arrive at $6 million?
13:42:55 So that's where I'm coming from, a budgetary
13:42:57 standpoint.
13:42:58 When we are wrestling now with a $12 million, or $12
13:43:04 million that we have to extract from the budget, how
13:43:09 does the administration view this particular memo in
13:43:11 terms of the budgetary issues and the question that we
13:43:15 are raising?
13:43:17 Now, I will say, we can't tell the administration how
13:43:19 to organize.
13:43:20 That's not the issue how to organize the department,
13:43:23 and that sort of thing.
13:43:25 That's not the issue.

13:43:26 I think that came forth, and I also talked with the
13:43:28 achieve about that.
13:43:31 The issue here again is how do you address what the
13:43:36 memo says, a $6 million savings, if you do certain
13:43:39 things.
13:43:40 Are those numbers accurate?
13:43:42 Are they true?
13:43:43 How do you arrive at those figures?
13:43:45 I don't know.
13:43:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
13:43:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You read the chief's memo.
13:43:54 >> Yes.
13:43:56 >> Basically, he just debunks -- I'm sure sergeant
13:44:01 Murray is a good guy but the chief debunked the whole
13:44:04 thing and said he doesn't see how he came up with $6
13:44:08 million.
13:44:08 He said that would amount to 400,000 per lieutenant.
13:44:12 I guess if you want to, we could just ask the chief to
13:44:16 come over today or defer for two weeks, the chief to
13:44:19 come over and talk about it, if you want to.
13:44:21 I thought the chief's memo was actually pretty good
13:44:24 and pretty straightforward but that's your call.

13:44:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I read the chief's memo and it
13:44:29 talked exactly what Mr. Dingfelder said.
13:44:32 And I don't know how this is going to start the
13:44:34 process.
13:44:35 I'm more concerned how it's going to end.
13:44:37 If we as council think up on any employes suggestions,
13:44:46 whatever, direct to us without going through the
13:44:47 proper chain of command, we are creating an enormous,
13:44:50 enormous difficult situation for those who have been
13:44:56 hired in this city to run their departments.
13:44:58 I think if these things are factual, I don't know the
13:45:04 sergeant.
13:45:06 They should have gone through the chain of command.
13:45:08 They should have gone through and had their own
13:45:10 meeting.
13:45:11 That to my knowledge has not happened.
13:45:13 This was set out to quote-unquote the elected leaders
13:45:17 of the city, and I don't think it's a proper way for
13:45:20 us to handle this thing.
13:45:21 It should be handled in the administration and let the
13:45:24 administration -- for me to be calling the chief, or
13:45:27 any other department heads on the whims of one

13:45:29 employee, I think we are creating an enormous,
13:45:33 enormous injustice to the city.
13:45:37 They have different things in the city, different
13:45:39 people you can go to.
13:45:42 Certainly, within their rights, and they should have
13:45:45 those rights.
13:45:46 And the people that are hired, and the personnel, the
13:45:52 people that are hired in budgeting, none of that was
13:45:55 done.
13:45:55 It was just sent directly.
13:45:57 And I don't know what the problem is.
13:45:59 I don't even know that there is a problem.
13:46:01 I can only address what I read.
13:46:03 And I don't want to get caught up in this in the
13:46:07 future.
13:46:08 And we got 4,000 some employees.
13:46:11 Every time somebody wanted to come to us, maybe at the
13:46:14 end they can come to us, after they have exhausted all
13:46:16 their remedies.
13:46:17 But I don't think that's my role.
13:46:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Madam Chair.
13:46:23 Let me respond by saying, again, if issue is a

13:46:33 budgetary issue, and all of you probably got a call
13:46:35 from the mayor's office as I did.
13:46:38 We got one.
13:46:39 All right.
13:46:42 Now, my concern is whether it's a disgruntled employee
13:46:47 or whatever.
13:46:48 My issue is, here is someone, an employee, who sent a
13:46:54 memo, didn't follow the chain of command, that's why
13:46:58 we sent it back to the administration.
13:46:59 We sent it back to the administration saying, can you
13:47:02 respond, tell us, is there a $6 million savings here?
13:47:07 Now, I have been in this for ten, eleven years.
13:47:09 Some of you longer than I have.
13:47:11 I will tell you at the county we reward employees to
13:47:15 come up with suggestions how to save taxpayers
13:47:17 dollars, in case you don't know.
13:47:19 You award them, give them a certificate or whatever.
13:47:22 What you do, I don't know, okay?
13:47:24 Now, if they didn't follow the chain of command I'm
13:47:28 sure the administration will deal with that.
13:47:31 But go back to the administration and say can you
13:47:33 address this in terms of the budgetary issue? Is

13:47:35 there a $6 million savings?
13:47:37 We get public speakers that come up all the time and
13:47:39 tell bus how to save money and we send that over.
13:47:42 That's no different.
13:47:43 That's no different.
13:47:44 Now, if he didn't follow the chain of command then the
13:47:46 administration will have to deal with that.
13:47:48 That's not my issue.
13:47:49 My issue is, in the midst of a budget crisis, budget
13:47:53 crunch, here's one thing.
13:47:58 Whether we can save 6 million or not, we don't know
13:48:00 that.
13:48:01 We can find out.
13:48:01 Try to find out.
13:48:03 So that's my position.
13:48:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
13:48:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I'll follow up.
13:48:11 Some of my earlier comments were misunderstood.
13:48:13 I agree with you completely, Tom.
13:48:15 I think what we did was right.
13:48:17 I think we should encourage employees to look at every
13:48:20 opportunity to save money.

13:48:22 Whether or not they choose to go through the chain of
13:48:24 command and tell their supervisors how they can save
13:48:26 money or come to us at the end of the day, taxpayers
13:48:30 money, and we should explore all options regardless of
13:48:32 where they come from, on saving money.
13:48:35 I think when those issues come to us, we did the
13:48:38 appropriate thing.
13:48:39 We sent it back to the administration and we said,
13:48:41 here are some ideas.
13:48:42 Might not be good ideas.
13:48:43 Here are some ideas. What do you think about it?
13:48:46 Chief wrote us back and said he didn't think much of
13:48:48 it.
13:48:49 If you want the chief to come and talk about it a
13:48:51 little bit, because it was a lengthy memo, a
13:48:55 three-page memo, if you want the chief to come and
13:48:58 explore the details of it, I'm fine with that.
13:49:00 If you think it's important enough and that there's
13:49:04 merit in it to do that.
13:49:05 >> Well, the issue isn't having the chief come.
13:49:09 Issue is having the budget department look at that and
13:49:12 look at the numbers, have they been afforded the

13:49:14 opportunity to see is there a possible savings, say,
13:49:18 okay, no, we cannot, where do you get these numbers
13:49:22 from?
13:49:22 I don't know.
13:49:25 And I will tell you, based on my conversations from
13:49:29 the administration, they are not going to send anybody
13:49:31 over.
13:49:31 I want to tell you.
13:49:33 And that's the problem I have, when you are trying to
13:49:35 be helpful as an elected official, and I resent the
13:49:40 fact when you are trying to be helpful -- and let me
13:49:42 just say this for all of us.
13:49:45 I have no ulterior motive when we are in a budget
13:49:54 crunch, a budget crisis.
13:49:55 I am the City Council rep of district 5, represent
13:49:59 district 5 and all of the City of Tampa.
13:50:01 And I have a right to raise questions.
13:50:03 And I'm going to raise questions.
13:50:06 And I will cast my one vote.
13:50:08 Now, anybody that tries to block that, that's their
13:50:11 business, and that's the problem I got here.
13:50:13 Instead of us working together as a team, trying to

13:50:16 move forward, trying to find solutions, you are almost
13:50:19 blocked at every angle.
13:50:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am going to make a motion to
13:50:27 support you, Reverend Scott, and continue this for two
13:50:29 weeks and ask the chief and Bonnie Wise, if you wish,
13:50:32 to come over and talk to us about the memo, and see if
13:50:35 there's any justification for it.
13:50:37 If there's opportunities for saving, then they should
13:50:40 tell us they're there is or there isn't.
13:50:44 I think that generally speaking, when we ask them to
13:50:46 come talk about an issue, they come talk about it.
13:50:49 Whether or not we can make them come, I don't know.
13:50:51 Maybe that's what David worries about.
13:50:55 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
13:50:57 I believe I'm hearing what the councilman is saying
13:51:00 and I think what his concern is, he wants to have the
13:51:02 information he needs to have to make budget decisions
13:51:07 when the budget comes up.
13:51:08 So it may be just a tad early for that.
13:51:10 But I think the point is, and what you might want to
13:51:13 say is, I would like to have this some kind of cost
13:51:17 benefit analysis done, so that the budget from last

13:51:20 year has been passed, approved, but I think what I'm
13:51:23 hearing, you, council, would like to know whether this
13:51:28 proposal makes a big difference and you need to know
13:51:31 that in the context of your budget review.
13:51:36 I think you get a series of that in August.
13:51:40 But I think that's the information that councilman
13:51:42 Scott wants, and that's a legitimate inquiry, because
13:51:46 you guys -- excuse me, council controls the purse.
13:51:51 So I think that clarifies it.
13:51:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think so.
13:51:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I remember some specifics
13:51:58 regarding $6 million.
13:52:00 I remember talking about, I forget, 11 lieutenants or
13:52:06 something and the reference that some city employees
13:52:11 are making $400,000 a year.
13:52:13 Am I correct?
13:52:14 So that doesn't make sense.
13:52:15 But what I'm saying is the administration -- and I
13:52:18 have nothing to do with administration.
13:52:20 I wasn't hired by them, or even conferred with them on
13:52:23 this item.
13:52:25 They have already answered through the chief.

13:52:28 Whether the chief wants to come now I don't know.
13:52:31 But if you really want to know the answer, don't send
13:52:34 it to the chief.
13:52:35 Send it to the budget department.
13:52:36 Send it to the analysts who know what they are doing.
13:52:40 They will then get with the chief and get the whole
13:52:42 document and return it to us.
13:52:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I agree with you.
13:52:45 That's what I'm saying.
13:52:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we need them to come up and stand --
13:52:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think you got to get an answer.
13:52:53 I don't think you need to get them here.
13:52:55 >>GWEN MILLER: I would rather see a written report.
13:52:58 I wouldn't want them standing before council and
13:53:01 reporting all of this.
13:53:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't know where this is going.
13:53:05 I know where it started.
13:53:06 I just don't know where it's going.
13:53:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I will tell you where it's
13:53:10 going.
13:53:10 Let me put it on the record.
13:53:12 What you have is the administration called me and some

13:53:14 of you and said I am not going to have a personal
13:53:20 directed issue and I'm tired of it.
13:53:23 That's where it's going.
13:53:24 And, you know, if council don't have authority to
13:53:27 request information then we need to go home now.
13:53:30 We are wasting our time.
13:53:32 We are wasting our time. If we can't ask questions
13:53:35 about that which about the budget --
13:53:41 >> N.
13:53:41 >> The charter says you can subpoena.
13:53:43 >> You can subpoena.
13:53:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But we never had to and we
13:53:48 shouldn't even consider it.
13:53:49 My motion is very timely, and the chief comes in front
13:53:52 of us once a month to give cop of the month and that
13:53:56 sort of thing and it's a wonderful thing.
13:53:58 Have the chief come over with Bonnie Wise to talk
13:54:01 about this issue.
13:54:03 It's an important issue.
13:54:05 And if they feel strongly that there's no merit just
13:54:08 come in front of us and tell us there's in a merit.
13:54:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I agree with Mr. Miranda, though, it

13:54:15 has to go to the budget and finance.
13:54:19 And that's what the motion was the week before last.
13:54:22 My motion was send it to the budget department.
13:54:24 Have them do analysis.
13:54:25 And you're right.
13:54:26 Maybe they can come in March, May, whatever I.don't
13:54:30 have a problem with that.
13:54:31 We just want --
13:54:33 >> Can we say --
13:54:37 >> My point is you can't just have the budget because
13:54:39 it's an operational thing, you know.
13:54:41 It's like chiefs.
13:54:44 Eliminate five lieutenants.
13:54:46 So to me it's sort of a joint thing.
13:54:49 That's where the motion is coming from.
13:54:50 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
13:54:52 One of the things I was going to add to that
13:54:55 suggestion, as I understand your budget review
13:54:57 process, each department is supposed to sit down with
13:55:00 council.
13:55:00 I think they have a workshop.
13:55:02 So each department in this case, the police

13:55:05 department, sits down with you and shows you what your
13:55:08 budget is and what your line item components of that
13:55:11 budget is, the appropriate point then as you say, I
13:55:16 would like to know what effect it has on the budget to
13:55:18 do XYZ, whatever it is.
13:55:21 It may be more issues than that.
13:55:22 And then you get that answer.
13:55:24 And you know what the impact is over this decision
13:55:28 that will inform your deliberations because you do
13:55:30 have to approve the budget.
13:55:32 And I don't know when the police department
13:55:35 scheduled -- typically the department -- I have only
13:55:37 been here three and a half, four years.
13:55:40 We deal with council, I think, April, May, and then
13:55:43 that input is included, and the budget is tendered to
13:55:46 the council, some draft form in August, and then enter
13:55:54 in it.
13:55:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Dingfelder, as the budget
13:55:59 chair, I think because this year we have a
13:56:06 particularly complex budget because we have to make
13:56:08 do, if you wouldn't mind beginning to work with Mrs.
13:56:14 Wise to schedule these meetings earlier rather than

13:56:16 later, giving more time to chew on things, I think
13:56:20 that would be better.
13:56:21 >> Do you have a suggestion on the month?
13:56:26 >> We have a motion.
13:56:33 We have a motion on the floor.
13:56:35 Mr. Dingfelder?
13:56:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My motion was really in deference
13:56:39 to councilman Scott.
13:56:42 So I'll modify, withdraw my motion.
13:56:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's modify, report to us during the
13:56:49 budget process as Mr. Smith suggested, that's fine.
13:56:52 We do have a budget process.
13:56:54 But hear me well.
13:56:55 When I get opposition like this, I'm more determined.
13:57:00 And I tell you, you will get more scrutiny during the
13:57:03 budget process and maybe get things changed around so
13:57:07 be supportive and answer the question up front.
13:57:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I hear you on that.
13:57:12 My motion is modified to request that when TPD and
13:57:17 budget gives us their reports in the summer process
13:57:25 that they specifically address the two letters.
13:57:29 >> Second.

13:57:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
13:57:31 (Motion carried).
13:57:36 Number 100.
13:57:41 Mr. Snelling, are you here?
13:57:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for coming.
13:57:55 The Guida house has been vacant for quite some time.
13:58:04 We had this contract fall through.
13:58:06 And so it's now March.
13:58:08 I'm really eager to see us get going and sign this
13:58:14 proposal.
13:58:14 Share with us what we are doing.
13:58:16 >>> Real estate division, working with parks and
13:58:22 recreation.
13:58:23 The real question comes down, Guida house is dedicated
13:58:29 park, funding through parks and recreation.
13:58:32 Because of that, the uses that are allowed to be
13:58:36 inside that house and in those buildings is
13:58:39 restricted -- restricted to certain types of uses.
13:58:43 Parks and recreation, looking at the documentation and
13:58:46 what types of uses they can have.
13:58:48 As soon as we get back parks and recreation in the RFP
13:58:55 process, request for proposal process, it will be

13:58:58 advertised in newspapers, on the web site, we'll
13:59:00 contact other historic preservation-type organizations
13:59:04 to see if they have interest to see if they have any
13:59:06 other clues as, other interested parties.
13:59:14 We hope to have it done by the summer.
13:59:17 June.
13:59:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chair, I have to say, every
13:59:22 month that the building sits unused, it's painful.
13:59:28 We knew in December that nothing was happening.
13:59:30 Parks and rec knew about these deed covenants.
13:59:34 I would like to have a report back in 60 days.
13:59:37 >>THOM SNELLING: Okay, I can do that.
13:59:40 >> It's not like rocket science.
13:59:42 It's a house that we want a use in.
13:59:45 >>> I'll check on that when we get Monday and 60 days
13:59:49 is fine, to come back with something.
13:59:53 >> The end of March, April, May.
13:59:55 The first meeting in May.
13:59:58 The second meeting in May.
14:00:02 >>> That will be fine, yes.
14:00:03 Whatever the date is.
14:00:06 >> It's May the 15th.

14:00:09 And I don't want to be told that we are going to get
14:00:11 an RFP out.
14:00:13 I want to know that the RFP has gone out and we are
14:00:17 getting receipts and that we are moving on this thing.
14:00:19 Thank you.
14:00:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Now 97.
14:00:25 Do you want to speak on the resolution?
14:00:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's a motion we get a report
14:00:34 back on how proposals are going on the queued a house
14:00:39 on May 15th under staff reports.
14:00:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
14:00:42 I'm sorry.
14:00:43 (Motion carried)
14:00:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Daignault, you want to speak on the
14:00:49 resolution on 97?
14:00:51 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: This was one that Mr. Dingfelder
14:00:56 asked to be postponed for one meeting, two weeks.
14:01:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Steve.
14:01:01 My concern last week, my concern this week and next
14:01:05 week and however weeks thereafter on this project, is
14:01:10 now the proverbial Sterling issues, and, Steve, you
14:01:17 and I talked about this earlier in the week.

14:01:22 Our concern, folks in this neighborhood concerned and
14:01:24 now we are just going back to the drawing board and
14:01:26 now we are going to continue on to put this project on
14:01:32 Grenada and Sterling so you assured me it's not the
14:01:35 case so a sure everybody it's not the case and we can
14:01:38 go forward.
14:01:42 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Hopefully have something less
14:01:45 obtrusive but we are looking at other possible
14:01:48 solutions.
14:01:48 >> And not necessarily just parallel streets.
14:01:53 I always take you at your word.
14:01:54 I move number 97.
14:01:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:01:57 (Motion carried).
14:01:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Selby?
14:02:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.
14:02:07 City attorney Hargrett is here and she's here on
14:02:11 number 34.
14:02:16 >> Hargrett: I just came down here because I was
14:02:19 under the impression that I believe councilwoman
14:02:24 Mulhern had a question.
14:02:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I had a question.

14:02:28 Are you the new sign person for us?
14:02:32 >> I am not the new sign person.
14:02:34 However, I do represent the city department, and.
14:02:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm very concerned about the visual
14:02:45 pollution from billboards, which is why we are in
14:02:47 litigation about this.
14:02:48 I wonder what are we doing accepting free billboards
14:02:51 when we are in litigation?
14:02:53 >> I am going to have to refer you to Julia.
14:02:55 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
14:02:57 No legal prohibition about us going ahead and
14:03:00 accepting the billboard space, billboards that were
14:03:04 not -- that we are not under litigation on.
14:03:07 We are not under litigation of the -- the boards that
14:03:10 are there are allowed to be there under the view
14:03:12 corridor.
14:03:13 I understand these are not those so there is no
14:03:16 technical legal requirement under which you can expect
14:03:18 this.
14:03:18 >> Don't you think it's against our ethics policy?
14:03:24 We are in litigation with somebody and they are
14:03:26 offering us something for free.

14:03:27 Isn't that a conflict?
14:03:30 >>JULIA COLE: I don't believe legally it's a conflict.
14:03:37 When the decision came out, I reviewed it, and I'm
14:03:41 comfortable that we can do it.
14:03:43 If you want me to look at it further and do further
14:03:45 research I'm happy to do that but it's really whether
14:03:49 or not you want to accept the donation.
14:03:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Council members, we are saying we
14:03:55 want to cut down on billboards, they are a visual
14:03:58 pollution, yet we are accepting free billboard space
14:04:01 for this anti-litter campaign which I think is ironic.
14:04:05 So I don't see why this isn't an ethical challenge for
14:04:09 us.
14:04:14 I move that we don't approve this resolution.
14:04:24 >>CHAIRMAN: It dies for lack of second.
14:04:26 >> In a, I'll second it.
14:04:29 If somebody wants something for free let's go.
14:04:31 Let's move on.
14:04:35 Shooting a deer, not killing it.
14:04:38 Watt.
14:04:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It is my understanding that this is
14:04:41 not a billboard under litigation, though, right?

14:04:44 >> Correct.
14:04:46 The billboards that exist today are allowed to be
14:04:48 there legally, except it is our position, without
14:04:52 getting into too much detail, the ones that are in
14:04:55 issue which relate to the view corridor.
14:04:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How long has the City of Tampa been
14:05:00 doing this?
14:05:01 >>> Accepting free billboards or in litigation?
14:05:05 I don't know the answer to the first question.
14:05:06 The second question, for a long time.
14:05:09 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
14:05:10 Since I have been here, I know we did it with regard
14:05:12 to the "I am Tampa" movement so we have done it
14:05:17 before.
14:05:17 I don't know how often prior to my coming in.
14:05:21 >> So then we already set a precedent already.
14:05:26 Our pattern has been established.
14:05:33 >>JULIA COLE: As far as clean city this is the first
14:05:39 request that I had of the city for the billboard thing
14:05:42 and I have been here at least three years.
14:05:43 As far as that goes, that's what I can tell you.
14:05:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?

14:05:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I hear what you are saying, Mrs.
14:05:50 Saul-Sena.
14:05:50 I think it's a different kind of litigation.
14:05:52 You know, to me it's kind of like, listen, we are not
14:05:56 going to soften our position on this litigation
14:05:58 because they gave us the "I am Tampa" or somebody gave
14:06:02 us "I am Tampa" billboards four years ago and maybe
14:06:06 giving us some clean city billboards, and they give
14:06:08 away billboards I'm sure to lots of nonprofits.
14:06:11 We are becoming more and more nonprofit every week.
14:06:14 But, anyway, in light of that, I would hate to throw
14:06:18 the baby out with the bath water, and hurt clean
14:06:21 cities.
14:06:22 They are trying to do good things.
14:06:24 I am confident -- David, come up and help me with my
14:06:27 point here.
14:06:28 I am confident that this will in no way shape or form
14:06:31 change our position on the litigation.
14:06:33 That litigation is chugging along.
14:06:35 It's been kind of muddling along for a long time.
14:06:38 But I don't think it EBBS or flows because of this.
14:06:43 >>DAVID SMITH: No, it would be a problem if we had a

14:06:46 billboard that was involved in the litigation that we
14:06:49 thought was unlawful.
14:06:50 We checked to make sure it was not one of the
14:06:52 billboards we contend are unlawful.
14:06:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think you make a good point, but
14:06:57 I don't think it's as big a deal enough to turn down
14:07:00 this nice offer.
14:07:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to say that I think
14:07:06 it's possible to change your mind.
14:07:07 The first time -- no, seriously.
14:07:10 I'm not changing my mind about this.
14:07:11 But I'm saying that I think our consciousness is being
14:07:15 raised about the visual pollution of billboards, and
14:07:17 based on that, that's why I encourage you to turn it
14:07:20 down.
14:07:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Everything you say in this council
14:07:23 we'll hold it against you, all of you, because sooner
14:07:25 or later this billboard is coming back, and you know I
14:07:28 don't like too much on private right-of-way where you
14:07:30 have a pole that belongs --
14:07:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Those are different.
14:07:38 [ Laughter ]

14:07:41 I brought this up to get this thing moving one way or
14:07:43 the other.
14:07:43 That is not different.
14:07:46 It's billboard and sign and a banner saying a message.
14:07:50 They are all the same.
14:07:51 When we run for office, we put up signs.
14:07:55 We put up billboards some of us.
14:07:57 We go television.
14:08:00 You waste money, a lot of money.
14:08:02 And what I'm saying is, what are we discovering here?
14:08:08 I understand what this is.
14:08:09 >> This is flee.
14:08:11 >> And I'm not buying a model -- I'm going to use
14:08:15 Ford, because they recalled and recalled back.
14:08:19 But I buy another Ford.
14:08:23 That's very short sighted.
14:08:25 And shame on them for having a recall.
14:08:26 But all the companies -- I don't want to pick on Ford.
14:08:30 They are very good people.
14:08:30 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion on the floor.
14:08:33 Mrs. Saul-Sena and seconded.

14:08:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I seconded it for discussion to get
14:08:36 this thing moving.
14:08:37 One item.
14:08:38 >>GWEN MILLER: What do you want to do now?
14:08:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Deny it.
14:08:41 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor?
14:08:43 Opposed?
14:08:45 >>THE CLERK: Motion failed.
14:08:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to move item 24.
14:08:50 All in favor say Aye.
14:08:52 Opposed?
14:08:53 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena voting no.
14:08:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Smith is here on item 35.
14:09:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is mine and I pulled it.
14:09:13 On the WMBE, I talked with her three times now, and I
14:09:17 am going to support this, but with the understanding I
14:09:19 am not for going backwards, okay?
14:09:22 I want to be clear.
14:09:23 You and I talked.
14:09:24 And we have a clear understanding, we are moving
14:09:26 forward, that we are not going to reverse.
14:09:29 It's difficult to go in reverse, drive back.

14:09:31 We are moving forward.
14:09:32 And if she's coming to work, to move forward, but I am
14:09:37 not for going backwards.
14:09:39 You and I talked about that.
14:09:41 And you stated that you talked with her to clear some
14:09:46 of my concerns.
14:09:47 >>DAVID SMITH: Yes.
14:09:48 City attorney.
14:09:49 Just to make sure the record reflects the rest of the
14:09:51 information for the council members.
14:09:56 She has a law degree, Mrs. HOLT, a national expert in
14:10:00 this area.
14:10:01 For your information, her father in fact was a civil
14:10:03 rights lawyer in the sixties.
14:10:06 She brings a distinct passion for this area of
14:10:09 practice.
14:10:09 She is a believer in the need for these sorts of
14:10:11 programs and she will be -- for as much as we can do.
14:10:16 She is extremely bright, very articulate, understands
14:10:19 these cases, is working -- we are fortunate to have
14:10:24 someone of this level and this caliber of expertise
14:10:27 that will work with us in the city.

14:10:29 She also assisted the airports.
14:10:31 We are getting a little of the scale.
14:10:34 She had done some of the review on the airport so we
14:10:37 are getting some. Savings and I certainly heartily
14:10:40 recommend her to you.
14:10:41 She's excellent.
14:10:42 Thank you for your comments.
14:10:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You stated also about her meeting with
14:10:46 the community on the 2nd of April.
14:10:49 Is that right?
14:10:50 >>> I am trying to schedule that with her.
14:10:52 She is due in April 2nd.
14:10:54 What I would like to do is see if we can schedule a
14:10:56 meeting with the community, with her, to meet and
14:10:59 discuss prior to April 3rd, which is our meeting
14:11:01 on the first.
14:11:04 >> Let me also say that one of the things, that you
14:11:08 also wanted to involve Mr. Greg Hart, your WMBE
14:11:15 director.
14:11:15 Since he is a director he's going to be highly
14:11:18 involved, and whatever meeting that you have with her.
14:11:23 >>DAVID SMITH: I agree.

14:11:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
14:11:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move 35.
14:11:28 >> Second.
14:11:29 (Motion carried)
14:11:31 >>GWEN MILLER: We go to 103.
14:11:42 Code enforcement.
14:11:43 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
14:11:45 You requested how we are doing with cooperation with
14:11:48 the Tampa Police Department.
14:11:49 Curtis was here and addressed the issues but in
14:11:54 talking with him and Ernie there is an extensive
14:11:57 amount of cooperation between code enforcement and the
14:12:00 police department.
14:12:01 It's imperative that they do so because sometimes
14:12:04 these issues are intermingled and we are aware of the
14:12:07 problem areas and code enforcement and legal will do
14:12:10 what we can to make sure that we focus on the worst
14:12:14 problems first as soon as we can do so.
14:12:16 With respect to the foreclosure, you may have read in
14:12:19 the paper this morning we are proceeding, we have
14:12:21 completed one foreclosure already.
14:12:23 We have 12 to 13 in process.

14:12:25 But in addition to that as you approved earlier today,
14:12:28 we retained the law firm of Joyner Holmes to assist in
14:12:32 the foreclosure process.
14:12:34 As you may know, they previously assisted the city in
14:12:37 this regard.
14:12:38 They are very good at this sort of work, and we are
14:12:40 optimistic that it will expedite things to some
14:12:43 extent.
14:12:44 I think things are going well.
14:12:46 One thing I would like to say.
14:12:48 It is always a balance.
14:12:50 It's certainly important to achieve compliance.
14:12:54 But we have to be careful because we are talking about
14:12:57 taking people's property.
14:12:58 So we do so reluctantly.
14:13:01 But we will do so.
14:13:03 And one of the things that is a byproduct of that is
14:13:07 we have more people paying the fine more rapidly.
14:13:12 Thank you very much.
14:13:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 105.
14:13:15 Transportation.
14:13:22 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Public works, utility services.

14:13:25 There was a question from the can council regarding a
14:13:31 section of Kennedy Boulevard, or a section of Twiggs
14:13:36 with FDOT as far as ownership.
14:13:39 We have approached FDOT with this concept.
14:13:42 Again, we don't have anything in writing.
14:13:44 This has all been very informal.
14:13:46 They have a lot of questions, and they are not really
14:13:49 anxious to pull a segment of route 60 out and have it
14:13:54 jog.
14:13:55 And so they asked, what is it we really want to do?
14:13:59 What is the real objective here?
14:14:01 And I know, Mrs. Saul-Sena, this was your motion and
14:14:05 maybe we need to sit down with you and try to get more
14:14:08 in the way of what we really want to do because they
14:14:10 would like to be helpful.
14:14:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would very much like that.
14:14:13 If you can set that up as soon as possible, that would
14:14:15 be great.
14:14:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
14:14:18 Item 106.
14:14:20 Mr. Daignault, come back again.
14:14:22 Solid waste.

14:14:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I thought we continued that right
14:14:31 before lunch at Ms. Mulhern's request, two weeks.
14:14:36 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
14:14:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We already did it.
14:14:39 >> Two weeks, come back.
14:14:42 >> 107.
14:14:45 >>CHAIRMAN: 107, too?
14:14:48 >>> 107 was the one the mayor asked the council would
14:14:51 you be interested in considering the concept --
14:14:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I move 107.
14:15:01 I'm fine with that.
14:15:02 That was not one of the ones to continue.
14:15:04 So 107, we need to set it for public hearing so I will
14:15:08 move 107 and setting up a public hearing.
14:15:10 >> We have a motion and second.
14:15:12 Question on the motion.
14:15:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just want to make sure the public
14:15:15 is right on this because this says merger between city
14:15:17 and solid waste and I think that's a misnomer.
14:15:20 >>> It is a misnomer.
14:15:22 This is just for the concept of funding a portion of
14:15:24 clean city from rates in the solid waste department.

14:15:28 >>GWEN MILLER: How many weeks do you need, two weeks?
14:15:31 To set a public hearing?
14:15:34 >>> If you would like us to go forward, it will take
14:15:36 longer than that.
14:15:37 If you allow us, we'll put that together, get the
14:15:40 notification, and we'll bring it back to council 69 we
14:15:43 put in the your hands then.
14:15:44 Motion and second.
14:15:44 (Motion carried)
14:15:47 108.
14:15:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The ethics issue? Very briefly,
14:16:01 council, I did not have an opportunity to attend the
14:16:03 last meeting of the ethics commission.
14:16:05 However, assistant city attorney Marcy Hamilton has
14:16:08 done an excellent job doing research and been in
14:16:11 contact with the ethics commission in Tallahassee.
14:16:13 There is an opinion on it.
14:16:14 The ethics commission, I understand, does wish to take
14:16:17 this up and provide a letter to council that will
14:16:20 resolve the issue that will in fact allow those people
14:16:23 who do business with the city to be able to serve on
14:16:25 boards, and if it's a direct conflict under the law

14:16:28 would be able to -- that will be forthcoming.
14:16:32 I want to thank her personally for her work in that
14:16:34 regard and the ethics commission will have an opinion
14:16:36 that will resolve the issue with finality.
14:16:39 >>GWEN MILLER: 110.
14:16:41 Do you want to continue that one for two weeks?
14:16:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You will --
14:16:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You will share that opinion with
14:16:48 us?
14:16:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We already voted on it.
14:16:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 111.
14:16:55 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
14:16:56 I have submitted a memorandum to you on this issue
14:16:59 last week regard.
14:17:07 We are available for any questions.
14:17:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Based on the department from this
14:17:10 morning with the St. Pete Times folks who appeared,
14:17:13 and want to take this issue and run with it as they
14:17:16 did back in 2000 and 2001, I would like to request
14:17:22 that public works department get with the folks, Amy
14:17:31 handbee and her department at St. Pete Times get back
14:17:35 with us and report back in 90 days to see what

14:17:38 progress we can make in getting rid of those plastic
14:17:41 boxes.
14:17:41 >>CHAIRMAN: Motion and second.
14:17:42 (Motion carried)
14:17:44 112.
14:17:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item 112 was an issue that was
14:17:49 continued.
14:17:50 It's certainly not a closed public hearing.
14:17:52 It wasn't a public hearing at all.
14:17:53 But it was continued because there was not a full
14:17:56 council present regarding the determination of how
14:17:59 council wishes to deal with the issue of public
14:18:02 comment at workshops.
14:18:05 Now, Mrs. Mulhern is not here.
14:18:07 I don't know how council wishes to proceed, if council
14:18:10 wishes to put this off until you have a full council
14:18:12 present.
14:18:13 Then a motion to do so would be appropriate.
14:18:16 Otherwise if council wishes to take the matter up,
14:18:18 obviously that's something that council can do.
14:18:20 But under rule 4-C it was continued because there was
14:18:23 not four votes in support or opposition to a

14:18:26 particular position.
14:18:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, you recall, I'm one of the one
14:18:31 that is pushed for having a workshop, because the
14:18:33 opportunity for council to have dialogue with staff to
14:18:37 educate us and to talk to us about issues, you know,
14:18:41 in workshop.
14:18:43 And again, I am opposed to opening up a public hearing
14:18:47 where we have a workshop, and was hoping to discuss
14:18:50 the issues with the staff and with us.
14:18:53 And if you are going to do everything at public
14:18:57 hearing you are not going to be able to get anything
14:18:59 done at City Council.
14:19:00 Okay.
14:19:01 Now, we are already in meetings all day.
14:19:04 And half the night.
14:19:05 So we are going to meet, what, 11:00, 12:00 at night?
14:19:10 At some point, you have got to be reasonable.
14:19:12 And you are going to afford the public an opportunity
14:19:15 when the issue comes up, they will have more than one
14:19:19 time, two times for public hearing, right?
14:19:21 To speak on an item, as well you all have special
14:19:25 discussion meetings.

14:19:26 So you have a special discussion meeting.
14:19:27 You have two public hearings, right?
14:19:34 >> Public comment.
14:19:35 >> Public comment to speak on any item.
14:19:37 And then you have an opportunity to get up to speed
14:19:42 and raise questions.
14:19:43 Then you are going to open up again, just allow us the
14:19:49 opportunity to really talk to staff.
14:19:52 You know, most of the time, you have a hard time
14:19:54 getting them over here anyway at workshop will allow
14:19:58 you the opportunity to be able to talk to them.
14:20:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Did you want to speak?
14:20:07 Okay, we need to put the motion back on the floor?
14:20:12 Mr. Shelby?
14:20:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The motion that was before council
14:20:16 was to make the determination that at the time of the
14:20:21 scheduling of the public comment you make the
14:20:23 determination when there is in a other time to
14:20:27 schedule public comment that you do open it up at the
14:20:29 time that you schedule the workshop.
14:20:30 Is that my understanding of the intent of that motion?
14:20:34 I can read it verbatim.

14:20:36 I just want to make sure that is truly reflective.
14:20:40 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to have comment during
14:20:42 workshop.
14:20:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: My understanding is that when you set
14:20:46 the workshop you make the determination of whether you
14:20:48 want to accept public comment.
14:20:51 >>> Well, not to have further comment.
14:20:56 That's my position.
14:20:59 Go back to our original rules.
14:21:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair, and Mr.
14:21:05 Scott.
14:21:05 I think we are having a little confusion here among
14:21:07 ourselves, and among some of our good people that live
14:21:10 in this city.
14:21:11 What is a workshop?
14:21:12 A workshop is nothing more, in my opinion, than the
14:21:16 seven members discussing something that they cannot
14:21:19 discuss away from this area.
14:21:22 It's against the law for I or somebody else to meet
14:21:25 with one, two council members back there.
14:21:30 That's gone in the fifties.
14:21:32 It is our position to hold these workshops so that we

14:21:36 can discuss among us what is going to happen in the
14:21:39 fought, as Mr. Scott so eloquently put, there's
14:21:43 opportunity.
14:21:43 If we have a workshop on something and that subject
14:21:46 matter is tabled or died there is no further comment
14:21:50 from no one.
14:21:51 If there is a workshop, and from that workshop comes a
14:21:57 possibility for change or ordinance to be brought up,
14:21:59 the public certainly has the right to speak.
14:22:02 And no matter what happens, they should speak.
14:22:05 But the workshop is a matter, and here's where I think
14:22:08 the confusion comes in.
14:22:10 It's for us to clear the calendar in the future, so
14:22:13 things that are viable and necessary are put on the
14:22:16 agenda, and then they are discussed with the general
14:22:20 public, or anyone else that wants to speak.
14:22:22 We did that this morning.
14:22:28 I heard you.
14:22:29 For the first time in my life.
14:22:31 [ Laughter ]
14:22:31 I'm only joking when I said that.
14:22:34 You're a very good council member.

14:22:36 But what I'm saying, no, we don't need -- what I'm
14:22:42 saying is, that's what the workshop is.
14:22:45 And I think there's where the information somehow --
14:22:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Councilman Scott, you missed my
14:22:57 most eloquent dissertational comment the last time it
14:23:02 came up so I will spare everybody.
14:23:04 Had something to do with for the people, by the
14:23:07 people, but, anyway.
14:23:09 I think that you make my point, Charlie, which is
14:23:13 this -- if we had this great discussion with staff,
14:23:17 okay, Greg Spearman stands up and tells us something
14:23:21 or other, and we have this great discussion, and then
14:23:25 as you said a minute ago, you know, we decide between
14:23:29 us and Greg Spearman that whatever we are discussing
14:23:33 it, table it and it dies, there's no opportunity for
14:23:36 the public to inject themselves into that discussion
14:23:40 about whether or not that issue should die or not.
14:23:44 And that's where I'm coming from.
14:23:46 Because you're right.
14:23:47 If an issue progresses past that point and then comes
14:23:50 to us for a resolution or ordinance or what have you,
14:23:53 then there's opportunity to have public input.

14:23:55 Problem is, if there's a good idea floating out there,
14:23:58 and we have a workshop about it, but there's no public
14:24:01 input, then it could just die, and it's still a great
14:24:04 idea.
14:24:04 But the public hasn't had a chance -- unless they send
14:24:08 e-mails or what have you -- but they haven't had a
14:24:11 chance to stand at that podium and talk to us and tell
14:24:14 us why they think it's a guide de.
14:24:16 And with all due respect to staff, there's a lot more
14:24:18 people out in the community that when should be
14:24:19 hearing from who are just as smart or smarter than
14:24:22 staff, and smarter than us.
14:24:24 Okay.
14:24:25 So, I mean, you had me almost convinced but then
14:24:29 Charlie said it's either tabled or dies and goes away
14:24:32 and that stuck in my mind.
14:24:34 I thought, well, then what?
14:24:36 When does the public have a chance to speak to that
14:24:39 issue?
14:24:39 I don't like this hard and fast rule because the
14:24:43 motion that died the other day was a really hard and
14:24:46 fast rule.

14:24:47 We are going to have workshops and we are never going
14:24:49 to have -- I think the more appropriate thing might be
14:24:52 a little flexibility.
14:24:53 On a case-by-case basis, when a councilman says let's
14:24:58 workshop this issue, normally there would be no public
14:25:01 participation because that's the general consensus of
14:25:03 council.
14:25:04 But I would say that councilman making the motion
14:25:07 should have the opportunity to say, and, by the way,
14:25:09 on this issue, I know there's 20 citizens out there
14:25:13 who want to come talk to us about it, and they should
14:25:15 have that chance to do it.
14:25:17 And that would come to a vote of council when you set
14:25:22 a workshop and at that point in time council can say,
14:25:25 we don't need the public on that issue and let's not
14:25:27 do it.
14:25:28 So I think we need a little flexibility there in the
14:25:31 name of the public.
14:25:32 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion on the floor.
14:25:34 Are you ready to vote?
14:25:35 The motion --
14:25:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move the resolution

14:25:40 in front of us.
14:25:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Not a resolution.
14:25:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's a motion.
14:25:49 To not allow public comment unless there's no other
14:25:52 time to schedule public comment and at the time of
14:25:59 scheduling a workshop be allowed which states we won't
14:26:04 do it unless at the time of scheduling we say it will
14:26:06 be, so it does actually allow a little flexibility and
14:26:09 give everybody well in advance.
14:26:15 I think part of your issue is the issue of fairness
14:26:18 and whether people know in advance and this would
14:26:20 address that.
14:26:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't like the way the motion is
14:26:23 worded.
14:26:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It doesn't have to be unanimous vote
14:26:28 although I am concerned the maker of the motion isn't
14:26:31 present here and it's under rule 4-C so I'm debating
14:26:34 what the best thing to do.
14:26:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Hold this for two weeks.
14:26:40 Move to put it under staff reports.
14:26:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Workshop it?
14:26:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think she's supportive of the

14:26:50 motion, is that right? I will move her motion then.
14:26:55 See, one of the things we have to do -- (cell phone
14:27:00 rings).
14:27:01 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to start finding with
14:27:04 these cell phones.
14:27:05 >>> We debate and issue and debate it again.
14:27:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, may I just ask for
14:27:12 clarification?
14:27:16 Because I may have to draft a rule.
14:27:19 Can I get a consensus that council sets the duration
14:27:22 of time or open ended comment?
14:27:24 In other words, when you want --
14:27:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Set the time.
14:27:31 >>GWEN MILLER: You say we are going to have public
14:27:32 comments at all workshops?
14:27:34 >> No.
14:27:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry I didn't make that clear.
14:27:37 The thing is, it's when the time you schedule the
14:27:40 public workshop in order to control your time, you
14:27:43 determine how much time will be set aside for public
14:27:48 comment on that issue.
14:27:51 If you take public comment.

14:27:55 >> I don't think what's typed out here under 112 says
14:27:58 that.
14:27:58 After the word "unless" it's very confusing.
14:28:02 No offense to the clerk's office.
14:28:05 So what I would suggest is slightly modify.
14:28:08 If you all are agreeing with me, I will try not to
14:28:10 fall out of my chair, but if you all are agreeing with
14:28:14 me --
14:28:14 >>GWEN MILLER: We are not agreeing with you.
14:28:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Let's just go with what's up here.
14:28:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It doesn't make any sense.
14:28:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I had drafted language.
14:28:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me understand this in
14:28:27 Spanglish.
14:28:28 You know, half and half.
14:28:30 The way I read this, the council not allow public
14:28:32 comment at workshop unless there is no other time to
14:28:35 schedule, which to me could be construed this thing is
14:28:40 going to die so if you want to talk, come on up.
14:28:43 But if it's going to be set for a public hearing that
14:28:47 is going to continue the process, then you wait for
14:28:49 the public hearing, they come.

14:28:51 But if the thing looks like it's going to be 4 to 3, 5
14:28:55 to 2, 6 to 1, 7 to 0, then the public is entitled to
14:28:59 speak.
14:29:01 I think that's what it says.
14:29:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If that's the interpretation then Ms.
14:29:06 Both Ms. Dole and myself have an issue because the
14:29:09 public will not be afforded advance notice to know
14:29:12 whether to come down at a public hearing, as to
14:29:14 whether or not that something might die, to speak, and
14:29:18 I understand --
14:29:20 >> You know Delta flight 218 leaves at 2:00.
14:29:24 If I get there at 2:30 I am not going to catch the
14:29:28 flight.
14:29:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, may I reread the language
14:29:31 that I have proposed for the actual rules?
14:29:35 If you like I can major copies.
14:29:36 It says public comment on the matter which is the
14:29:38 subject of the workshop shall not be taken unless the
14:29:41 City Council by separate motion and vote at the time
14:29:43 of setting the workshop establishes a specific
14:29:46 duration of time allotted for public comment on that
14:29:50 matter.

14:29:54 >> That's a good way to do it.
14:29:55 It's fair.
14:29:56 And on a case-by-case basis, council can accept or
14:30:00 reject that, you know.
14:30:02 A month in advance of the workshop.
14:30:04 You can say, Mrs. Saul-Sena, we don't think we need
14:30:07 the public comment on that issue and her motion would
14:30:09 die or whatever.
14:30:10 I think that's a good way.
14:30:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move we rework our rules to
14:30:20 reflect what Marty just said.
14:30:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's the motion.
14:30:23 (Motion carried)
14:30:24 All right.
14:30:24 Mr. Shelby.
14:30:27 113.
14:30:30 Number 113.
14:30:31 >> Move the resolution.
14:30:33 >> Second.
14:30:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Motion and second to protect
14:30:43 chickens.
14:30:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have nothing against protecting

14:30:48 chickens.
14:30:48 And when I go to the Florida retailers and they name
14:30:52 five or six of them.
14:30:53 I am not going to get involved in who has egg that you
14:30:58 pick out of the street and who has eggs that you pick
14:31:00 up in a --
14:31:04 >>GWEN MILLER: How do you know where they come from?
14:31:07 >> They are labeled some way, I guess.
14:31:11 Most of the time you don't anyway.
14:31:13 What I'm saying is, this, I don't allow chickens in
14:31:16 the City of Tampa, period.
14:31:19 And I don't know if they are in Ybor City or not.
14:31:21 I haven't seen any lately but what I am saying is, we
14:31:27 have rules and regulations in the city now.
14:31:30 So, I mean, I don't care what happens with this thing.
14:31:34 It's a humane thing.
14:31:35 I understand it.
14:31:36 But I don't have no chicken production in the City of
14:31:38 Tampa.
14:31:39 And so if we start this thing, we are going to have
14:31:44 all individuals on either side of any subject matter
14:31:47 saying what they want, or they don't want to do

14:31:49 regarding cloning, regarding this, and regarding that,
14:31:54 and that they are going to say, look, the City of
14:31:56 Tampa, Florida, has a resolution one way or the other.
14:32:04 >> Let me ask legal what are the implications of this
14:32:07 ordinance?
14:32:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's not binding.
14:32:14 It's an expression of the majority of council.
14:32:18 It states your position as a body.
14:32:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:32:24 Nonbinding.
14:32:26 All right.
14:32:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion on the floor.
14:32:28 All in favor say Aye.
14:32:29 Opposed, Nay.
14:32:31 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miller and Miranda
14:32:33 voting no.
14:32:37 >>GWEN MILLER: We go to item 116, the resolution.
14:32:39 Need to move the resolution.
14:32:42 >> So moved.
14:32:43 >> Second.
14:32:43 (Motion carried).
14:32:44 >>GWEN MILLER: 117.

14:32:54 Need to spend the resolution.
14:32:55 >> I think we spend millions of dollars in postage.
14:32:58 And the question I asked somebody on staff was, are we
14:33:04 doing things -- I'll continue that into the summer as
14:33:09 we get into finance.
14:33:10 Are we doing things to quit using the U.S. mail
14:33:13 service?
14:33:13 You know, there are so many opportunities to do things
14:33:19 by computer that don't involve mailing.
14:33:21 And especially including paying bills and our utility
14:33:27 bills.
14:33:27 So you and I had this discussion, Greg.
14:33:32 >>> Greg Spearman.
14:33:35 Yes, we do, councilman Dingfelder.
14:33:37 The city is looking at ways to do things more
14:33:39 electronically.
14:33:41 There are some things that have to be mailed by
14:33:44 permits and things of that nature.
14:33:51 Contract administration is making a move.
14:33:54 And we are looking at other ways to do that more.
14:33:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't even know who controls
14:34:00 that, that postage.

14:34:02 Is that just department by department?
14:34:04 >>> It's actually billing is by departments.
14:34:11 Each department has their share.
14:34:18 >> Maybe when we get to summer there will be some more
14:34:21 creative ideas.
14:34:22 And it keeps going up.
14:34:24 Pretty soon it will be a dollar a letter, I think.
14:34:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question.
14:34:45 This is not an item where we get a better break by
14:34:50 doing it with stamps.
14:34:51 Why are we looking at this for two fiscal years?
14:34:56 '08-09.
14:34:57 Why are we projecting ahead?
14:34:59 >>> The reason being is because we did have enough
14:35:03 money to cover us through the entire fiscal year 08
14:35:06 and we are now looking at putting money into 2009
14:35:09 because of the increase in the postal rates.
14:35:18 We typically do this for two years at the time.
14:35:21 We came before we had a two-year permit.
14:35:23 I believe the post office requires to us enter into a
14:35:26 two-year agreement with them.
14:35:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You don't spend it until you use

14:35:31 it.
14:35:31 So we have put money --
14:35:32 >>> it's not like we are making interest on it either.
14:35:35 >> That's true.
14:35:36 >>> But we have to have mail, and we come to you with
14:35:47 at least two fiscal years because we are running out
14:35:49 of a little bit of money because of the increase of
14:35:51 postal rates which takes place in a few days, takes us
14:35:55 through 2008 and also have money in 2009.
14:35:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My comment about interest was only
14:36:01 partially facetious.
14:36:03 If money is sitting in a meter it is not making
14:36:05 anything.
14:36:09 You know, if it's a million dollars if we were getting
14:36:13 a percentage point, that would be $10,000.
14:36:18 >>> I'll ask the budget department.
14:36:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
14:36:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move 117.
14:36:27 >> Second.
14:36:27 (Motion carried).
14:36:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that's
14:36:30 going to speak on items 118 to 121?

14:36:33 Would you please stand and raise your right hand?
14:36:36 (Oath administered by Clerk) we need to open those
14:36:46 items.
14:36:46 >> So moved.
14:36:47 >> Second.
14:36:47 (Motion carried).
14:36:48 >> I believe you previously received and filed all the
14:37:00 documents.
14:37:00 When you speak, state your name and whether or not you
14:37:05 have been sworn.
14:37:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone to speak on 118?
14:37:10 >> Move to close.
14:37:11 >> Second.
14:37:12 (Motion carried).
14:37:12 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Number 118.
14:37:16 An ordinance being presented for second reading
14:37:20 approving an historic preservation property tax
14:37:22 exemption application relative to the restoration,
14:37:25 renovation or rehabilitation of certain property owned
14:37:29 by Michael Shae and Sylvanna Capaldi, located at 1801
14:37:37 west hills Avenue, Tampa, Florida in the Hyde Park
14:37:40 historic district based upon certain findings,

14:37:44 providing for notice to the property appraiser of
14:37:46 Hillsborough County, providing for severability,
14:37:47 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
14:37:50 providing an effective date.
14:37:50 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
14:37:52 Vote and record.
14:38:06 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Mulhern
14:38:08 being absent.
14:38:10 Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak on
14:38:12 item 119?
14:38:15 >> Move to close.
14:38:15 >> Second.
14:38:16 (Motion carried).
14:38:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Reverend Scott.
14:38:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would like to move an ordinance
14:38:21 being presented for second reading, ordinance rezoning
14:38:23 property in the general vicinity of 606 and 608 south
14:38:27 Tampania Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
14:38:30 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
14:38:32 district classifications PD planned development and CI
14:38:34 commercial intensive to CG commercial general
14:38:37 providing an effective date.

14:38:39 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion.
14:38:40 Need a second.
14:38:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
14:38:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
14:38:44 Vote and record.
14:38:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do we have a copy that shows how
14:38:55 people voted the first time?
14:38:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It says Dingfelder and Scott absent
14:38:59 at vote.
14:39:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you have a new one on your desk?
14:39:07 >> Assumed everybody else voted for it.
14:39:23 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Mulhern
14:39:25 being absent.
14:39:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
14:39:28 wants to speak on item 120?
14:39:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move to close.
14:39:36 >> Jill: I have been sworn.
14:39:39 Site plan for second reading for items 120 and 121 and
14:39:43 certified by the zoning administrator and filed with
14:39:45 the clerk's office.
14:39:46 Thank you.
14:39:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry to interrupt.

14:39:48 But could we verify what the votes were on that?
14:39:51 >> Mine doesn't say the votes.
14:39:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe 120 --
14:40:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Miranda absent at vote.
14:40:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There were two votes if I remember
14:40:08 reading the chart, Mulhern and Saul-Sena, if my mind
14:40:12 serves me right.
14:40:13 Mr. Dingfelder made a substitute motion.
14:40:15 Am I correct?
14:40:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: My recollection is there were people
14:40:18 who did vote against it.
14:40:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think there were two if I
14:40:22 remember reading the documents in my absence.
14:40:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What we received from the clerk
14:40:28 didn't say that.
14:40:30 It just says who is absent.
14:40:32 It doesn't say how people voted and I think that's
14:40:36 supposed to be on here.
14:40:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
14:40:38 Move to close.
14:40:40 >> Move to close.
14:40:40 >> Second.

14:40:41 (Motion carried).
14:40:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move an ordinance rezoning property
14:40:48 in the Jess general vicinity of 3114 North Boulevard
14:40:50 in the city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly
14:40:52 described in section 1 from zoning district
14:40:54 classifications RS-50 residential single-family to RO
14:40:58 residential office providing an effective date.
14:40:59 >> Second.
14:41:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm sure you all remember the
14:41:02 number of residents who came down the last time we
14:41:05 discussed having offices along this stretch of North
14:41:07 Boulevard.
14:41:08 The res dents wanted to protect the single-family
14:41:15 character of the area.
14:41:16 If you remember the large map, it was all
14:41:18 single-family.
14:41:18 There was some residential to the south of this, but I
14:41:22 really urge you to deny this request.
14:41:24 >> We have a motion and second.
14:41:26 Vote and record.
14:41:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this.
14:41:29 Reference was made to this in my absence to this being

14:41:32 compared to St. Joseph's area hospital zoning area.
14:41:35 This is nowhere near that.
14:41:37 There was over a hundred areas across the street, I
14:41:40 had a viable complete block of nine homes who are
14:41:44 gone, fini, no longer there.
14:41:49 Back in 1978, St. Joseph to their benefit did not
14:41:53 start that.
14:41:54 It was started by Humana who was later brought out by
14:41:58 St. Joseph's.
14:41:58 Then they came back and did multiple rezoning with
14:42:00 some of us voting for and against it who were here
14:42:04 then.
14:42:04 So this is a small little house that if I remember,
14:42:07 all the text that I read, because I read a lot in the
14:42:10 last week or so, Mr. Dingfelder made a motion about
14:42:12 the front part of the parking area.
14:42:15 Am I correct?
14:42:16 The handicapped parking.
14:42:17 There was more discussion on this thing.
14:42:21 There was no employees being held in that operation.
14:42:24 Am I correct?
14:42:25 And all these things were agreed to.

14:42:27 So it looked like a house, is going to act like a
14:42:31 house, ain't going to have no more park like a house
14:42:35 and not going to bark like a dog.
14:42:37 We have done things here to satisfy, I think, the
14:42:39 needs of everyone.
14:42:40 And it's still going to be a little house.
14:42:42 You can't add to it.
14:42:43 You can't have an employee.
14:42:45 You can only be open certain times in the day.
14:42:47 You can't have weekends if I remember all that.
14:42:50 So I don't quite understand. Anyway, I'm ready to
14:42:56 vote.
14:42:58 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Charlie read my script.
14:43:02 It's called plagiarism.
14:43:04 But this is a one-person office and I don't think
14:43:06 there's going to be anything on the area.
14:43:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Vote and record.
14:43:21 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena voting no
14:43:26 and Mulhern being absent.
14:43:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
14:43:29 wants to speak on item 121?
14:43:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move to close.

14:43:33 >> Second.
14:43:34 (Motion carried).
14:43:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance rezoning property
14:43:39 in the general vicinity of 4202 and 4204 north
14:43:43 15th street in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
14:43:45 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
14:43:47 district classifications RS-50 residential
14:43:49 single-family to PD planned development, place of
14:43:53 religious assembly, providing an effective date.
14:43:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
14:43:58 Vote and record.
14:44:07 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Mulhern
14:44:09 being absent.
14:44:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby, what?
14:44:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 123, 122, followed with 125.
14:44:21 >>GWEN MILLER: 123.
14:44:23 Continued public hearing.
14:44:24 >>> I was going to do 123, 24 and 25.
14:44:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can you be brief?
14:44:33 Second reading.
14:44:34 >>> I can be brief.
14:44:58 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Mr. Shelby is passing out the

14:45:00 copies made to the alcohol ordinance.
14:45:02 You are also getting a copy of each corrected
14:45:05 ordinance of the motions made.
14:45:11 I sent through to your legislative aides and directly
14:45:14 to you the marked up copies.
14:45:15 You can see the changes marked in blue.
14:45:17 I'm hoping that you have them, also.
14:45:19 But I have given you the black and white copies if you
14:45:21 haven't.
14:45:23 Just to reiterate what was done, in the alcohol
14:45:27 ordinance, the change in chapter 327, the change for
14:45:33 the large-scale commercial development, originally
14:45:37 that was going to be allowing a special use 1 process.
14:45:43 The modification that council motioned for was that a
14:45:48 separation could apply if you are applying for an R
14:45:51 classification and those are classifications were to
14:45:53 close at 12 a.m. so that change was made.
14:45:59 Than the ordinance that is I just passed out, the
14:46:02 alcoholic beverage changes on the front page it says
14:46:05 A-B on the top, in handwriting.
14:46:08 My handwriting.
14:46:11 And if you look at page 7, you can see the R as one --

14:46:21 at 12 a.m. as one of the special criteria.
14:46:23 The second motion was changing the occupancy limit to
14:46:27 reflect the 300 feet occupancy which was done.
14:46:32 The third motion was to reflect the 60-day posting
14:46:36 period that was meant from 30 to 60 for the posting
14:46:40 period.
14:46:40 That was done.
14:46:45 That's reflected on page 14.
14:46:50 The fourth motion was to reflect voluntary extension
14:46:54 which Mr. Bentley raised, and that was put in -- the
14:47:02 administrative extension was modified on page 16 and
14:47:05 then the voluntary extension was placed on page 17.
14:47:09 And the language that was carried through was the
14:47:19 sales of alcoholic beverages.
14:47:21 That Clare intent not to abandon that use was carried
14:47:23 through that language, which reflects the case law
14:47:27 that Mrs. Kert spoke about.
14:47:29 The fifth motion was the council approved the
14:47:32 ordinance, the way the difference is measured as the
14:47:35 crow flies.
14:47:37 And that was in quotes.
14:47:40 But if you go back to page 6 and 7 you can see that

14:47:44 it's from the point of the structure, the area that's
14:47:47 being wet zoned to in a straight line, measured in a
14:47:52 straight line to the specified surrounding use.
14:47:56 And then finally, that you administratively approve
14:47:59 that the petitions are heard during the day, so we
14:48:01 will be processing them during the day.
14:48:06 That's the alcohol beverage ordinance changes.
14:48:08 That you had motioned for.
14:48:11 And
14:48:21 That the vendor ordinance, the only change that was
14:48:24 motioned for was the Columbus drive.
14:48:28 I'm sorry, there were two.
14:48:29 Columbus drive originally said running from 34 east to
14:48:32 the city limits.
14:48:34 You have Columbus drive being put in.
14:48:36 And then opportunity R, 7 p.m., you changed that.
14:48:44 Those two changes were made.
14:48:45 >> Where do we pick up Columbus?
14:48:47 >>> Where Columbus starts, which I think is Dale
14:48:51 Mabry.
14:48:53 By name.
14:48:58 That's number 123 on the agenda.

14:49:01 Then number 124 are the changes to the zoning table
14:49:06 that control the zoning district and the uses.
14:49:09 That's where you see the introduction of small venue,
14:49:11 large venue, and the vendor changes that are needed
14:49:14 because they are considered uses, to tell you what
14:49:16 process to go through.
14:49:19 So I think that was it based on those motions.
14:49:26 And item number 123 was the vendor ordinance which is
14:49:30 separated out from the comprehensive changes, which
14:49:32 were moved with no changes.
14:49:34 I think that's it.
14:49:36 If you have any questions.
14:49:42 I'm sorry, wanted to address alcoholic beverages.
14:49:46 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: On the second page, under item
14:49:48 number 3, can you explain to me what you indicate by
14:49:53 saying plastic or injected -- shall not be permitted?
14:49:59 And transformers not permitted.
14:50:06 From buildings you can only put a raceway type of
14:50:10 sign.
14:50:10 >>> You are in the accessories.
14:50:14 This is accessory uses.
14:50:17 That's actually existing language in the code.

14:50:19 Let me read it and then I'll answer you.
14:50:21 Because we didn't change that language.
14:50:23 That's already there.
14:50:24 So let me read it and I'll answer you in just a
14:50:26 second, if you don't mind.
14:50:37 >>REBECCA KERT: There are three other changes.
14:50:40 Mr. Bentley was here last time and he raised a number
14:50:42 of issues.
14:50:43 Mr. Bentley has worked on this for about a year and a
14:50:48 half and had a number of comments.
14:50:52 We did feel it was appropriate to make some further
14:50:54 clarifications an some of the points Mr. Bentley
14:51:00 raised.
14:51:00 On page 4 at the very top of the page, that the
14:51:04 applicant has to demonstrate for a special use, the
14:51:08 public health, safety and welfare.
14:51:10 And that's really been more interpreted to mean
14:51:16 whatever the use is actually further.
14:51:19 So we made that clarification.
14:51:21 On page 8, that has to do with the temporary wet
14:51:24 zoning.
14:51:26 Mr. Bentley had expressed some concern that it wasn't

14:51:28 clear that we were allowing these on government
14:51:30 property, which we do now.
14:51:31 We thought that it was clear.
14:51:33 But that means that it doesn't -- we added that
14:51:37 clarification.
14:51:38 And then on page 10, Mr. Bentley had some concerns
14:51:42 that we weren't fully addressing the conforming uses,
14:51:45 the uses that are already out there and grandfathered
14:51:49 in.
14:51:51 We didn't change what we had in there before but we
14:51:53 clarified what our intent was, and that is basically
14:51:56 any alcoholic beverage establishment that either
14:51:59 brought an approval by the City of Tampa prior to this
14:52:03 ordinance or was operating legally prior to the city
14:52:06 having any regulations which was in 1945, that you are
14:52:11 a legally conform use, and we can continue on.
14:52:14 However, you will be subject to all the provisions of
14:52:16 the new chapter, and that means the drying-up
14:52:20 provision or reporting restaurants or any of those
14:52:24 changes basically apply to you.
14:52:26 And we made the same sort of clarification for bottle
14:52:31 clubs, which up to this point were not an allowable

14:52:34 use.
14:52:39 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Really quick, to answer your
14:52:42 question on the identification sign, these are
14:52:44 accessory uses just like you have small restaurants in
14:52:49 the downtown skyscrapers, they are uses that are truly
14:52:52 accessory to that building and what this is saying is
14:52:55 that you are not having outside advertisement.
14:52:58 You really are captured -- you are servicing that
14:53:01 building or that use.
14:53:03 You are not to have a large identification sign on the
14:53:05 outside of the building.
14:53:06 Advertising your business.
14:53:07 Because you are not a true principal use.
14:53:12 You really are services the businesses inside.
14:53:15 So that's why they are very limited.
14:53:17 You are allowed to have them at the entrance of the
14:53:19 building and that's really it.
14:53:22 It's an accessory use.
14:53:26 It's not a principal use of the property.
14:53:28 Otherwise you would have signs everywhere.
14:53:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Question.
14:53:34 A mobile truck, people sell from a truck, you can

14:53:37 drive an they park on your property.
14:53:39 Will that come under vendors?
14:53:42 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The one that is drive in the
14:53:44 right-of-way we don't actually regulate.
14:53:49 >>GWEN MILLER: They come on the property.
14:53:52 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The one that is are on private
14:53:54 property we consider vendors.
14:53:55 Within the right-of-way -- well, their own property,
14:54:00 there's public right-of-way and then there's private
14:54:03 property.
14:54:04 If they are in the public right-of-way, that's not
14:54:06 covered by this.
14:54:06 That's a totally separate issue.
14:54:09 We don't regulate the public right-of-way.
14:54:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
14:54:11 >>> No problem.
14:54:13 >>GWEN MILLER: How many we can go through, 23, 24, 25?
14:54:18 >>> Yes, ma'am.
14:54:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone in the public to speak on 123,
14:54:26 24, 25?
14:54:27 >>STEVE MICHELINI: There's a provision in here which
14:54:30 is like driving a stake through the heart of every

14:54:34 small business, and it really needs to come out of
14:54:37 here.
14:54:40 And I'm not exaggerating on this issue.
14:54:43 90% of the properties that come to you are small
14:54:45 venues.
14:54:47 And when you put a provision in here that says that an
14:54:50 application for wet zoning shall be deemed as an
14:54:53 intensification of the property, perhaps you don't
14:54:56 know what that means in terms of compliance with the
14:54:59 code.
14:55:00 That means -- and I understand zoning compliance, you
14:55:03 have got to have the correct zoning underlying to zone
14:55:06 the property.
14:55:06 But that also kicks off all the transportation
14:55:09 standards, it kicks off all the technical standards
14:55:11 for transportation of parking including setbacks, it
14:55:20 also kicks off all your landscape provisions, kicks
14:55:24 off solid waste compliance, even though some of these
14:55:27 places have had solid waste pickup for years and
14:55:29 years, it makes you meet the new code.
14:55:31 Stormwater and all the new building codes for that
14:55:34 piece of property.

14:55:35 You're talking about in some cases hundreds of
14:55:37 thousands of dollars for small venues to be brought up
14:55:41 to code.
14:55:42 And in many cases, you can't do it.
14:55:45 This is cappy's revisited.
14:55:49 This is exactly the time they were supposed to be
14:55:53 loosening up providing for small venues and
14:55:55 restaurants instead of tightening up.
14:55:57 If you have a large tract of land over 500,000 square
14:56:00 feet you have the ability to meet the code.
14:56:02 If you have a small restaurant, there is no possible
14:56:04 way if that restaurant was built in a strip area or in
14:56:08 West Tampa --
14:56:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Why don't you point the provision
14:56:13 out?
14:56:13 >>> On page 6.
14:56:17 And it also appears --
14:56:18 >> A-B.
14:56:20 >>> A -- it's page 6, C-1, says commercial development
14:56:27 of less than 500,000 square feet, provision 1, shall
14:56:32 be deemed as an intensification.
14:56:34 And then it appears again on page 7, B-1.

14:56:38 It simply isn't possible.
14:56:49 It also is on 3-B, 2, it shows up on page 4.
14:56:56 And Mr. Bentley raised that issue before.
14:57:01 And I don't think, because there were a lot of other
14:57:05 things coming before you, that perhaps you didn't
14:57:07 understand the significance of this provision.
14:57:09 But it is deadly.
14:57:13 It is absolutely deadly.
14:57:16 And I have been in touch with the Florida hotel and
14:57:18 restaurant association.
14:57:19 They have some serious concerns about it as well.
14:57:26 I'm starting on page 3.
14:57:30 It actually shows at the top of page 4, which is two,
14:57:35 at the top, section 3, page 4, at the top.
14:57:38 Issues shall be listed in regulations to be included
14:57:44 meeting all these different standards.
14:57:45 Then it shows up again on 6.
14:57:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It shows up on 5.
14:57:53 >>> 5, 6, 7.
14:57:54 >> B-1.
14:57:56 Then shows up on 6 as C-1, on 6 as A-1 at the bottom.
14:58:01 Then shows up on 7 as B-1.

14:58:04 >>> I mean pick a small restaurant anywhere that's
14:58:06 existing, even the last five years.
14:58:09 The codes have changed.
14:58:11 (Bell sounds).
14:58:11 And you're saying to them, okay, now meet the new code
14:58:14 provision.
14:58:15 Start over from square one.
14:58:21 It is a deadly provision.
14:58:22 And I don't think that you all -- the implication is
14:58:32 what it kicks off.
14:58:35 But on a little bit of a lighter note, even Dracula
14:58:40 needs a drop of blood in the system and the small
14:58:42 businesses are going to be victimized.
14:58:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Cathy Coyle, do you want to go through
14:58:47 that for us?
14:58:49 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Can I say something before she
14:58:51 starts, please?
14:58:52 As Mr. Steve Michelini said, we are sticking the knife
14:58:57 to the heart of the small businesses.
14:58:59 This country has not been in the condition we are
14:59:01 today.
14:59:03 It's terrible out there.

14:59:04 In my shopping center, we got four stores that
14:59:08 recently closed, out of 150,000 square feet of
14:59:11 shopping, Caldwell banker is out, a Devil Ray cleaner
14:59:16 went out, a title company went out, and there's more
14:59:19 of us going to go out.
14:59:21 We cannot endorse this type of stuff in today's
14:59:24 economy.
14:59:25 We got more foreclosures going on in this country than
14:59:29 ever before.
14:59:30 We are in trouble.
14:59:31 And if we as a government are going to stick the knife
14:59:34 in their back or in their heart, it's not right.
14:59:37 Because everybody here still gets paid.
14:59:40 I know we had to lay some people off.
14:59:43 But we cannot endorse this.
14:59:45 I will not endorse it.
14:59:46 It's going to kill us.
14:59:47 Believe me.
14:59:50 These attorneys coming up here to represent these
14:59:52 small businesses are paying through the nose to come
14:59:54 up here.
14:59:55 Some of these guys sit hear for four, five hours.

14:59:58 Maybe at 150, $200 an hour.
15:00:01 I could never support a lot of these things.
15:00:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
15:00:07 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:00:09 This has been a consistent direction from City
15:00:13 Council.
15:00:13 This intensification is dealing with parking
15:00:15 requirements only.
15:00:16 Approval for intensification of the use of the
15:00:19 property, therefore applications shall comply with the
15:00:22 parking requirements.
15:00:23 In effect the time of the application.
15:00:25 That's the issue.
15:00:26 That's the crux.
15:00:27 Issue consistent that we have heard on these wet
15:00:30 zoning.
15:00:30 I don't know how many times council members had to be
15:00:33 ask, where is the parking on-site?
15:00:35 The issue with the wet zonings today, all you are
15:00:38 giving is alcohol, you are not allowed to look at
15:00:40 anything else on the property.
15:00:41 It goes to permitting after that.

15:00:43 And then a lot of times things happen where they can't
15:00:46 meet parking.
15:00:47 Whatever their reason, and they have to come back for
15:00:49 some variance or everyone a rezoning to make it
15:00:53 happen.
15:00:53 This was the direction from council to deal with the
15:00:55 parking when you are adding in the alcohol.
15:00:58 That's what the provision deals with.
15:00:59 Not stormwater.
15:01:00 Not landscaping.
15:01:01 Not dumpsters.
15:01:02 Not anything else.
15:01:04 Those full provisions are going to kick in when you
15:01:06 have a change in use.
15:01:08 If you have an office building and it's changing to a
15:01:10 restaurant, coming in for alcohol, absolutely they are
15:01:13 going to have to comply with everything else.
15:01:16 It's an intensification of the complete use of the
15:01:18 property.
15:01:20 If it's an existing restaurant and they just want to
15:01:22 add alcohol, the only intensification there, what we
15:01:25 are looking at, is parking with this provision.

15:01:27 They need to meet the parking ratios.
15:01:30 That's been the direction from council.
15:01:31 If you don't want that in there we can take it out.
15:01:34 That's the bottom line.
15:01:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have been a person that's
15:01:39 consistently asked for this, and I have to tell you I
15:01:41 changed my mind.
15:01:42 I feel like as we have become more dense as a
15:01:45 community, people are going to stop driving absolutely
15:01:49 everywhere.
15:01:50 They'll walk, they'll bike, they'll figure it out.
15:01:53 But I think in terms of redevelopment, particularly
15:01:55 small restaurants, particularly, in our older
15:01:58 neighborhoods, parking shouldn't preclude somebody
15:02:03 being able to apply for this.
15:02:05 And I can think of a number of situations where the
15:02:10 older commercial areas simply don't have enough
15:02:13 parking, but I don't think that's a reason to disallow
15:02:17 somebody to apply for an alcoholic beverage.
15:02:19 So I would be willing as a council member to ask Ms.
15:02:23 Coyle to remove this even though I will say I am
15:02:24 probably the one who asked her to stick it in a couple

15:02:27 of years ago.
15:02:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand the plight.
15:02:31 I understand my good friend here from -- council
15:02:35 member from New Tampa.
15:02:36 And the concerns, I think what Mrs. Saul-Sena is
15:02:40 alluding to if you have a high-rise building and they
15:02:43 want liquor on the 20th floor, what property are
15:02:47 you going to get?
15:02:48 On the other side of the coin, we, not I, not no one
15:02:53 here specifically, through the evolution of time, the
15:02:57 evolution of changing of minds and so forth and so on,
15:03:00 we have created some problems in the city for a lot of
15:03:03 people who don't deserve it.
15:03:04 And let me explain that.
15:03:06 When you go to Courier City area, and that area is
15:03:14 pledged by three City Council members, Mr. Dingfelder,
15:03:16 Mace, and maybe even pastor Scott.
15:03:22 It's an area that you can't get through.
15:03:25 But the time that all that was developed in the
15:03:28 residential community, there was very little cars.
15:03:31 The streetcar service.
15:03:33 People walked, like Ms. Saul-Sena said, and back.

15:03:38 Now through all the different venues that have come
15:03:40 through, one here, one there, 25 years it started, you
15:03:44 can't park your own car in your own front yard.
15:03:47 And these are the hard things, that how they get
15:03:52 through, des there's no one direct answer.
15:03:54 This is like your insurance crisis and the government.
15:03:59 I can't tell you what the answer is.
15:04:00 I can also tell you that the people that are living
15:04:03 there are the ones that are suffering the most.
15:04:10 I had that little Volkswagen of mine and I had trouble
15:04:13 maneuvering through both sides of the street.
15:04:15 Because you can't see where you are going.
15:04:18 If another car is coming, somebody has got to go into
15:04:21 somebody's driveway to get by.
15:04:22 And I understand that.
15:04:23 But parking is a requirement in my mind that has to be
15:04:30 controlled with some type of use.
15:04:34 If you are going to live in a house, figure out the
15:04:38 trips.
15:04:38 If that house is going to be turned to something else
15:04:40 you better have parking.
15:04:42 That's the animal, the beast.

15:04:45 The city in general.
15:04:48 In a lot of areas are over 100 years old.
15:04:53 What we have here, we don't have somewhere else in the
15:04:55 north.
15:04:57 What we have in the north necessarily doesn't reflect
15:05:00 the south.
15:05:01 The east and the west are a little different.
15:05:04 But the venues and parking to me are very dear to the
15:05:09 heart because it's the most intense requirement that
15:05:14 affect a surrounding neighbor.
15:05:17 Am I open to suggestions?
15:05:19 Yes, I am.
15:05:20 But this has a lot of good sections, intents and
15:05:25 different other things that speak to -- that I want to
15:05:29 see amended.
15:05:30 And I want to see changed.
15:05:31 There's things here that need to be addressed.
15:05:35 Maybe not all of it is perfect, but I'm willing to
15:05:39 separate some of these things.
15:05:42 It's a need be to not have those citizens that are
15:05:46 living under that stress for us to continue pouring
15:05:49 more and more stress on them.

15:05:51 And I leave it at that, Madam Chair.
15:05:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
15:05:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Michelini brings up a good
15:05:59 issue.
15:06:01 We have heard from Ms. Coyle in terms of her staff
15:06:04 interpretation.
15:06:06 I need to hear from legal in terms of their legal
15:06:09 interpretation of this, because we just need to be
15:06:12 sure, if in fact the intensification kicked in as Mr.
15:06:19 Michelini alluded to, stormwater, solid waste, yada
15:06:23 yada yada, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.
15:06:26 But these particular paragraphs, each one specifically
15:06:28 says, therefore, applications shall comply with
15:06:31 parking requirements.
15:06:34 Is that enough to make sure that it's abundantly clear
15:06:37 that that's all intensification does is kick in the
15:06:40 parking requirements only?
15:06:42 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
15:06:44 Obviously, we did think that was clear.
15:06:46 However, based on all the confusion that has been
15:06:49 brought up it would be my recommendation if you would
15:06:51 like to keep the parking requirement in there, that we

15:06:53 do strike the first line of intensification, that
15:06:58 should remove without any question all the other
15:07:00 issues.
15:07:00 I would also like to point out to City Council an
15:07:04 option that you may want to consider.
15:07:06 Right now, the way that this is set up, if somebody
15:07:11 comes in for a new alcoholic beverage permit they are
15:07:14 going to have to meet the parking requirement or get a
15:07:16 variance of the parking requirement before they are
15:07:18 allowed to come forward.
15:07:20 That is what we felt the direction of City Council was
15:07:22 because we were told that you wanted people to have
15:07:28 the parking requirement.
15:07:29 However since this is not a special use, do you have
15:07:32 another option down the line at the public hearing to
15:07:35 consider the effects of parking so if it's the will of
15:07:41 council to strike that entire paragraph you would
15:07:43 still, now that it's going to be a special use at the
15:07:45 hearing, have the ability to consider the effects of
15:07:51 on-street parking that this will have.
15:07:54 Not just because they have insufficient parking but
15:07:56 you can consider that as part of the criteria that you

15:07:58 will have.
15:07:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me throw in a middle ground.
15:08:02 Let's say we strike the first line because we don't
15:08:05 want to be confusing.
15:08:06 I think we are all okay with that.
15:08:08 Frankly from a policy perspective, I agree with
15:08:12 Charlie.
15:08:12 Linda, I disagree with you.
15:08:14 We are not a transit society yet.
15:08:16 We are a driving society.
15:08:18 And these neighborhoods, in all of these situations,
15:08:23 we have got these establishments butted up against
15:08:25 these neighborhoods.
15:08:26 And that's why you put to start with a couple years
15:08:31 ago, and I remember when you did it, because we didn't
15:08:35 have the tool, the A-B request, we didn't have the
15:08:39 tool, whenever these parking issues came up.
15:08:42 We got the question, is there adequate parking?
15:08:44 And then legal would say, well, that's not really one
15:08:46 of the considerations.
15:08:47 So I like the fact that it's specifically and
15:08:52 expressly in there to now say we have that as a tool.

15:08:55 However, I also think it should be something that we
15:08:58 can waive during that process.
15:09:02 And that's my next question, Rebecca.
15:09:05 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I was actually going to answer that
15:09:08 if you don't mind because I knew where you were going.
15:09:13 By taking out the first sentence and basically leaving
15:09:15 it in the actual special use criteria that these
15:09:18 applications, parking, you through the special use
15:09:22 process have the ability then to consider those
15:09:24 criteria and waive them.
15:09:26 So by leaving it in there, by virtue of leaving that
15:09:29 provision in there that you have to meet parking, then
15:09:31 you guys can decide --
15:09:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: On a case-by-case basis, and a
15:09:35 person can come in, and, you know, this is downtown or
15:09:40 this is a bus route or whatever, then we can waive
15:09:44 this.
15:09:44 Okay.
15:09:44 So what I am going to suggest -- what do we need to do
15:09:48 to strike that one line?
15:09:49 Can we do it on second reading?
15:09:54 >> Which language?

15:09:55 >> Intensification.
15:09:57 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I can go modify this right now.
15:09:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You want to get rid of the word
15:10:02 "therefore" as well?
15:10:07 >>> Good afternoon.
15:10:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Hold on one second, mark. Let's say in
15:10:13 the middle of page 7 be one.
15:10:17 This is on the A-B document now.
15:10:20 In the middle of page 7, B-1, staff is suggesting that
15:10:24 we strike the first line that says approval shall be
15:10:27 deemed intensification of the use of the property.
15:10:31 Strike that line.
15:10:32 And then we probably also strike "therefore."
15:10:35 The sentence will start off with "application shall
15:10:37 comply with parking requirements."
15:10:39 So that's where we would head.
15:10:41 And we need to make a motion to tell to you do that.
15:10:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead, Mr. Bentley.
15:10:48 >>MARK BENTLEY: 201 north Franklin street, Tampa 33602
15:10:56 on behalf of my client, Florida market association.
15:11:00 I appreciate the opportunity to work with council and
15:11:02 staff on this.

15:11:03 We made some great strides in going through this
15:11:06 process.
15:11:06 Your staff has implemented or suggested some very
15:11:08 practical solutions to some of these issues.
15:11:10 Hopefully it's because of the implementation process
15:11:13 we'll all be flexible and open minded if something
15:11:16 doesn't work or does work successfully.
15:11:19 But the point I want to make here is, if you go to
15:11:23 page 3 of your materials -- and I have discussed this
15:11:27 with Cathy.
15:11:28 These are general standards.
15:11:29 If you look at the very bottom of page 3, these are
15:11:32 general standards that relate to any special use,
15:11:34 whether you're a school, daycare, and/or now alcoholic
15:11:39 beverage zoning, special use.
15:11:41 Okay?
15:11:41 And go to the next page, at the top, says number 2.
15:11:46 It says, quote, the use, which is listed as a special
15:11:51 use, for example, sale of alcohol, in the district in
15:11:57 which it is proposed to be located complies with all
15:11:59 required regulations and standards, et cetera,
15:12:02 et cetera.

15:12:03 So that to me suggests not withstanding councilman
15:12:07 Dingfelder the elimination of that provision we were
15:12:09 addressing, in different places, that that language is
15:12:13 still in there suggesting we have to comply with
15:12:15 parking, what have you.
15:12:17 So that's my concern.
15:12:18 Maybe we could clear that up a little bit.
15:12:22 And then unless you have any questions before, there's
15:12:25 an issue raised this morning by councilman Miranda,
15:12:31 addressed during the lunch break we had the
15:12:32 opportunity to do some research, and the road runner
15:12:35 is in fact a male.
15:12:37 [ Laughter ]
15:12:38 And you might want to clear that up for some of your
15:12:41 constituents.
15:12:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It's also a product made by the
15:12:45 Chrysler corporation.
15:12:47 >>MARK BENTLEY: Okay.
15:12:48 Thank you very much.
15:12:53 >>> In the waiver provision suggested by councilman
15:12:56 Dingfelder we think that gives council a lot of
15:12:58 discretion to annal these on a case-by-case basis and

15:13:01 we would endorse that.
15:13:02 Thank you.
15:13:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Rebecca, Mr. Bentley is suggesting
15:13:09 that provision of 27-269 on page 4-A-2 has some
15:13:18 vagaries.
15:13:19 I don't know.
15:13:20 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That's current language today in
15:13:23 the code.
15:13:24 Nothing modified except for the new reference, the
15:13:27 alcoholic beverage section.
15:13:28 What I want you to think about is when a daycare
15:13:32 facility or church or some other special use comes
15:13:34 before you, what's on the plan meets the current code,
15:13:41 except for any waivers that they are asking for.
15:13:43 And those waivers have to be specifically contained
15:13:45 within the special use criteria.
15:13:49 That's why we left the parking provision in there.
15:13:52 That was that last suggestion I made because if they
15:13:54 can't meet parking and that provision is not in there
15:13:58 then you can't waive it.
15:13:59 You have to give them the ability to go to VRB for a
15:14:02 variance which is silly processwise.

15:14:04 So if there's someone that comes before you and you
15:14:07 want the ability to manipulator waive things, then you
15:14:10 need that criteria in the special use criteria in
15:14:12 order to be able to do that.
15:14:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm glad you pointed that out.
15:14:18 (2) on the top of page 4 is existing code.
15:14:23 >>> Right.
15:14:24 That's why you see like the church criteria.
15:14:26 A lot of churches don't meet the setbacks for
15:14:29 underlining zoning district.
15:14:30 That's one of the special use criterias.
15:14:32 You start to see many uses for churches because they
15:14:34 just don't comply with the special use criteria. So
15:14:37 we ask you to waive those decisions.
15:14:40 It's standard.
15:14:41 So as far as -- I want to make clear for the record,
15:14:45 though, solid waste and stormwater provisions and
15:14:48 transportation technical standards, those three
15:14:50 technical standards of the code cannot be waived by
15:14:54 City Council through any process, through rezoning or
15:14:57 special use.
15:14:58 So finance there is something that's coming and has to

15:15:01 meet them, even if a PD doesn't meet them, if they are
15:15:04 changed through whatever technical manual, that would
15:15:06 be a code change.
15:15:11 >>MARK BENTLEY: Just for clarification.
15:15:12 If I'm understanding this correctly, if I have been an
15:15:14 existing wet zoning, say I'm a restaurant in South
15:15:16 Tampa, and it expires, now I come in with a special
15:15:19 use, I'm subject to what we are looking at on page 4
15:15:22 and 5.
15:15:24 What that provision is suggesting even though I have
15:15:25 been there for 50 years as a mom and pop restaurant
15:15:28 and I'm at MacDill Avenue or whatever and I meet
15:15:35 the new codes and don't have the ability to waive
15:15:37 them, councilman Dingfelder sed says that's why it's
15:15:40 in the code, it's not new, but now the wet zoning has
15:15:44 become a special use.
15:15:46 That's what's new, okay?
15:15:47 So if I'm understanding correctly, there's a new wet
15:15:50 zoning come in, even if it's been out there in West
15:15:53 Tampa for 40, 50 years, what have you, different
15:15:55 ownership, they come in, they have to meet all new
15:15:58 code unless they get some waivers through a new

15:16:00 process whether it's the DRB and coming before you for
15:16:03 the zoning before they can even apply for the special
15:16:05 uses to sell alcohol, if I'm understanding that
15:16:08 correctly.
15:16:09 And I don't think that's what you all want.
15:16:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The point is don't let it expire.
15:16:13 We already addressed that two weeks ago and loosened
15:16:16 up the rules on expiration.
15:16:18 >>MARK BENTLEY: I understand.
15:16:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Now I have to ask the legal
15:16:25 department the same question.
15:16:26 Both of you, I don't believe if a restaurant is not
15:16:28 going to change, and you come back to open in the same
15:16:33 building and the same square footage, and the same
15:16:37 size and everything else, all that requirement to meet
15:16:42 those standards.
15:16:43 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That's what I was trying to explain
15:16:45 to Mr. Bentley.
15:16:46 This says all regulations of the code.
15:16:48 The nonconforming regulations are also in the code.
15:16:51 If you are reusing an establishment and you are not
15:16:54 adding impervious surface, you are not adding floor

15:16:56 area, not adding tables, not generating anything new,
15:16:59 and you are not changing the use, you are not actually
15:17:04 tripping any of those other codes.
15:17:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The example he gave is different.
15:17:11 He's saying if you lose the use, if it's a restaurant
15:17:14 and you lose the use, and then it comes back in as a
15:17:19 restaurant, but then add the wet use --
15:17:24 >> Now you are a special use.
15:17:29 >> I'm not sure how you would --ding.
15:17:35 >> Say you are zoned commercial in South Tampa.
15:17:37 Say for whatever reason you lose your wet zoning,
15:17:40 whatever the circumstances, okay?
15:17:41 Now you have got to come in and apply with this
15:17:43 special use to sell alcohol and what the code is
15:17:45 suggesting.
15:17:46 Say you have all these nonconforming uses.
15:17:48 Obviously you don't need parking, landscape, what have
15:17:51 you, retention.
15:17:52 What this code is suggesting that you have to get
15:17:54 waivers or variances under different processes, then
15:17:58 apply and come see you all to re-sell alcohol.
15:18:02 Okay?

15:18:04 So I don't think that's what you want here.
15:18:06 If you have got an old restaurant, been a restaurant
15:18:08 for a long time, let them come back in.
15:18:10 Just make it clear.
15:18:12 Cathy is kind of agreeing with what I'm saying, at
15:18:16 least we can make it a little clearer because that one
15:18:18 section doesn't read like that.
15:18:20 >>CATHERINE COYLE: If I could just to clarify.
15:18:22 As the zoning administrator I am charged with
15:18:24 interpreting and administering the code.
15:18:26 I'm telling you what my interpretation is now.
15:18:28 I would really like to move this forward because it's
15:18:30 a huge process change, in the July cycle we can work
15:18:33 on clarifying that language.
15:18:34 I don't plan to leave the city within the next two
15:18:37 months.
15:18:38 I'm telling you what my interpretation is today and I
15:18:40 can certainly work with Mr. Bentley and Ms. Kert and
15:18:44 Mr. Michelini to clarify that language.
15:18:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That works for me.
15:18:51 >> if I could, striking that about intensification
15:18:55 will help immensely.

15:18:57 Because when you --
15:18:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We are going to strike part of it.
15:19:00 We aren't going to strike all of it.
15:19:02 >>> I understand but when you go to Construction
15:19:04 Services Center, and Cathy can tell you this as well,
15:19:07 there is a battle royally between the downtown office
15:19:11 and how to interpret these things.
15:19:13 And way don't want to have happen in these smaller
15:19:16 restaurants -- by the same token, and I am not trying
15:19:21 to put a burden on the restaurant, but review it and
15:19:25 if it's appropriate, you know, provide the waiver.
15:19:27 And as long as there's a provision for some relief,
15:19:31 that's a fair provision.
15:19:33 And what you need to put the relief provision in there
15:19:36 in order to enable the playing field to be leveled off
15:19:39 to the existing older establishment.
15:19:41 Thank you.
15:19:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
15:19:44 Would anyone else like to speak?
15:19:49 >>> Grace Yang, here today on behalf of the owner of
15:19:56 the Westshore mall.
15:19:58 Specifically to address two items in the alcohol

15:20:02 ordinance.
15:20:02 On page 5, for large venues, under 27-272-C-4, and on
15:20:10 page 7, small venue, these are the hours of closing
15:20:15 for the R zoning, the midnight close of business.
15:20:18 I fully appreciate that many interested parties have
15:20:21 worked very hard to get this ordinance done.
15:20:24 I just want to comment on the record.
15:20:26 Perhaps something to think about for the July cycle
15:20:28 when it comes up is my client at the mall would
15:20:32 appreciate some consideration if you all would allow a
15:20:36 little flexibility on the R zoning at the mall.
15:20:41 If you would allow -- if you would consider allowing
15:20:44 certain nights to have restaurants open beyond
15:20:48 midnight for business, and not close for business at
15:20:51 midnight.
15:20:52 And particularly I'm thinking about restaurants at the
15:20:55 two malls who might want to host a New Year's Eve
15:20:58 party.
15:20:59 If they want to host a New Year's Eve party and be
15:21:02 able to do a champagne midnight -- would be a little
15:21:09 difficult.
15:21:10 Perhaps that's something for council members to

15:21:13 consider maybe for the July cycle if you would
15:21:14 consider allowing perhaps either a 1 a.m. close for
15:21:19 certain days of the year.
15:21:21 Thank you.
15:21:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Can we put that in there?
15:21:25 Or does that have to come in the July cycle?
15:21:27 July.
15:21:28 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I have spoken with Ms. Yang about
15:21:32 doing that in the July cycle at this point.
15:21:34 It's only a couple of months away and that's a pretty
15:21:37 easy change, and right now Julia is working on the
15:21:40 other language.
15:21:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you need a motion for that or not?
15:21:48 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The other four provisions, striking
15:21:50 the first sentence, subparagraph 1 and then the first
15:21:56 therefore and then capitalizing the word applications.
15:21:58 >> So moved.
15:21:59 >> Second.
15:22:00 (Motion carried)
15:22:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we need to make a motion for the
15:22:05 change of hours?
15:22:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We are going to do it in July.

15:22:09 >>
15:22:11 >>: Do it in the July cycle.
15:22:12 >> So moved.
15:22:14 >> Second.
15:22:14 (Motion carried).
15:22:15 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Out of fairness, since you are
15:22:18 making motions, if you could mock motion to bring back
15:22:20 the modification to 27-269, C-2, I believe it was, the
15:22:24 use provisions of the general standards.
15:22:26 I'll work with Mr. Bentley on that.
15:22:28 >> So moved.
15:22:29 >> Second.
15:22:29 (Motion carried).
15:22:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: While we are waiting for that one
15:22:33 we could move to 123 and 124.
15:22:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do that between first and second
15:22:41 reading.
15:22:41 >>CATHERINE COYLE: This is second reading.
15:22:43 If you could move 123 and 124 and then we'll save 122
15:22:47 until after this one.
15:22:48 >> Move to close 123 and 124.
15:22:59 (Motion carried).

15:23:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we need to read the substitute
15:23:02 ordinance?
15:23:07 I'll move 123, ordinance for second reading, an
15:23:11 ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida making
15:23:13 comprehensive revisions to City of Tampa code of
15:23:16 ordinances chapter 27 zoning, amending section 27-149,
15:23:19 vendors; amending section 27-272, regulation governing
15:23:19 individual special uses; repealing all ordinances or
15:23:19 parts of ordinances in conflict therewith, providing
15:23:19 for severability, providing an effective date.
15:23:28 >> I have a motion and second.
15:23:34 Vote and record.
15:23:46 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.
15:23:56 >>CHAIRMAN: Mr. Miranda, would you read the next one,
15:23:58 124?
15:23:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance of the city of
15:24:04 Tampa, Florida making revue comprehensive revisions to
15:24:07 City of Tampa code of ordinances chapter 27 zoning
15:24:10 amending section 27-77 table 4-1 schedule of permitted
15:24:14 uses by district, amending section 27-78, table 4-3,
15:24:17 schedule of M-AP permitted uses, amending section
15:24:22 27-177, table 8-1, schedule of permitted uses and

15:24:27 permissible uses amending section 27-438, table 18-1
15:24:31 schedule of permitted principal, accessory and special
15:24:34 uses amending section 27-452, table 18-1 schedule of
15:24:39 permitted principal, accessory and special uses,
15:24:41 repealing all ordinances or parts of ordinances in
15:24:44 conflict therewith, providing for severability,
15:24:47 providing an effective date.
15:24:47 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
15:24:49 Vote and record.
15:24:55 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern voting -- I'm
15:25:05 sorry, motion carried unanimously with Mulhern being
15:25:08 absent.
15:25:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Can we do 125 and not 122?
15:25:19 >>CATHERINE COYLE: 125 is the one being brought down.
15:25:23 Did you read both ordinances for 123?
15:25:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe not.
15:25:27 It's unusual but in this case 123 contained two
15:25:31 ordinances, the one being the vendors.
15:25:34 >>CATHY COYLE: I gave awe clean copy.
15:25:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I read the short one.
15:25:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need the one at the bottom then,
15:25:47 right?

15:25:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I read the bottom one so the top
15:25:52 one needs reading.
15:25:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Where is the substitute for Mr. Scott?
15:26:16 Do you think the agenda is right?
15:26:17 If the agenda is right we can read it off the agenda.
15:26:20 Is it A-B?
15:26:23 Okay, I have got it.
15:26:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's the short one, though.
15:26:28 That's the one I read.
15:26:29 >> Oh, you read the vendors?
15:26:32 Then it is the one on the agenda.
15:26:33 Yes, you can read off the agenda.
15:26:35 The long one on the agenda is correct.
15:26:37 Sorry about that.
15:26:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I read the bottom part.
15:26:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have to read it with the
15:26:47 substitute.
15:26:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I read the substitute.
15:26:51 I read it off the ordinance.
15:26:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
15:26:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move an ordinance presented for second
15:26:58 reading, an ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida

15:26:59 making comprehensive revisions to the City of Tampa
15:27:02 code of ordinances chapter 27 zoning amending section
15:27:04 27-100, lots, yards and measurements amending section
15:27:10 27-130, buffers and screening, amending section
15:27:13 27-132, solid waste storage area, amending section
15:27:17 27-148, tents, amending section 27-241, methods of
15:27:22 providing required parking and loading, amending
15:27:26 section 27-242, table 10-1, table of required parking
15:27:31 spaces, amending section 27-245, administrative
15:27:35 variances of required parking spaces, amending section
15:27:38 27-267, classes on special use permits, agents or body
15:27:45 responsible for each general procedure, amending
15:27:48 section 27-323, review materials amending section
15:27:52 27-324, general requirements, amending section 27-328,
15:27:57 bonus provisions, amending section 27-373, appeal
15:28:03 method, amending section 27-440, development design
15:28:09 approval and procedures, amending section 27-441
15:28:13 development design regulations, amending section
15:28:16 27-442, parking requirements, amending section 27-468,
15:28:21 Kennedy Boulevard corridor district development design
15:28:24 standards, renumbering article XXII, definitions, re
15:28:30 numbering section 27-521 interpretation of terms and

15:28:33 words, renumbering section 27-522, definition of
15:28:38 groupings of various distribution, renumbering and
15:28:40 amending section 27-523, definitions, reserving
15:28:44 article XXII, reserving sections 27-521 through
15:28:50 27-523, repealing all ordinances or parts of
15:28:53 ordinances in conflict therewith, providing for
15:28:56 severability, providing an effective date.
15:28:58 I see why you didn't read it, John.
15:29:00 [ Laughter ]
15:29:01 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
15:29:03 Vote and record.
15:29:13 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Mulhern
15:29:15 being absent.
15:29:17 >>GWEN MILLER: 12 (.
15:29:21 >>> 125 needs to be read first.
15:29:27 She's on her way down.
15:29:28 If we could move on to 128.
15:29:31 >>GWEN MILLER: We'll move on then.
15:29:43 >>GWEN MILLER: We have to do 128.
15:29:46 >> Move to open the public hearing.
15:29:47 >> Second.
15:29:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone that's going to speak on 128 to

15:29:57 132, would you please stand and raise your right hand?
15:30:00 (Oath administered by Clerk) we need to open those
15:30:14 items.
15:30:14 >> So moved.
15:30:15 >> Second.
15:30:15 (Motion carried).
15:30:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Anybody hear?
15:30:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We can do it without a
15:30:21 presentation.
15:30:22 We have the document.
15:30:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Need to close.
15:30:25 >> So moved.
15:30:26 >> Second.
15:30:26 (Motion carried).
15:30:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move an ordinance for first
15:30:31 reading, an ordinance approving a historic
15:30:33 preservation property tax exemption application
15:30:37 relative to the restoration, renovation or
15:30:40 rehabilitation of certain property owned by Tomybor
15:30:43 LLC located at 1506 north 23rd street, Tampa,
15:30:46 Florida in the Ybor City historic district, based upon
15:30:49 certain findings, providing for notice to the property

15:30:52 appraiser of Hillsborough County, providing for
15:30:55 severability, providing for repeal of all ordinances
15:30:57 in conflict, providing an effective date.
15:30:59 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
15:31:00 (Motion carried).
15:31:04 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.
15:31:07 The second reading of the ordinance will be held April
15:31:11 3rd at 9:30 a.m.
15:31:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Caetano?
15:31:18 Is Ms. Cole ready for to us read number 125?
15:31:22 >>> Mrs. Kert is bringing that one.
15:31:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Kert is bringing that.
15:31:28 We go to 129.
15:31:34 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:31:36 WZ 08-46.
15:31:37 This is located at 905 east Holland street and 10409
15:31:42 and 10411 north Nebraska Avenue.
15:31:44 Current zoning is a PD.
15:31:46 Planned development, retail office use, case ZO,
15:31:52 requesting a 2(APS), no couples on premises.
15:31:56 It's in conjunction with a grocery store.
15:31:58 The wet zoned area will be approximately 3,000 square

15:32:00 feet.
15:32:03 The lot is vacant currently, it was rezoned in 2007 so
15:32:06 it will be developed pursuant to that PD.
15:32:10 The PD allows for construction of 5,850 square feet
15:32:13 retail office.
15:32:15 There are two wet zoned establishments within a
15:32:17 thousand feet.
15:32:17 One residential within a thousand feet, and five
15:32:22 institutional uses within a thousand feet.
15:32:24 There are no objections pursuant to 370-A-6.
15:32:30 You do have the ability to waive the distance
15:32:32 separations once they show the uses.
15:32:36 To give you a point of reference.
15:32:38 For those of you that may not get up here that
15:32:41 afternoon often. This is Bougainvillea and Nebraska.
15:32:47 And FHP I recall, this is a gas station here.
15:32:49 It used to be a 7-Eleven, I think.
15:32:55 Just to show you some pictures of the area.
15:33:02 This is the site currently.
15:33:05 Residential immediately across the street, Nebraska.
15:33:12 This is looking south on Nebraska.
15:33:17 Looking south on Nebraska.

15:33:18 North.
15:33:19 And the residential uses at Holland, appears to be
15:33:22 duplexes or triplexes, multifamily uses.
15:33:28 I submitted a report but to give you an idea what the
15:33:35 site looks like.
15:33:36 It's pretty much from the PD that was done, shows how
15:33:39 it lays out with the parking.
15:33:41 I'm available for any questions.
15:33:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a couple questions.
15:33:46 I can't quite picture where this is.
15:33:47 Is there a school near here?
15:33:53 >>> There is the academy, a daycare.
15:33:59 Nothing within a thousand feet from the survey.
15:34:01 >> I used to work at --
15:34:12 >>> this is a little bit south of that.
15:34:14 I can't picture it.
15:34:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My question is usually when we have
15:34:20 requests for this kind of thing, the building is
15:34:25 already in existence.
15:34:26 We don't have any preclusion for anybody for a
15:34:34 building that hasn't been built yet.
15:34:36 >>> In a.

15:34:36 They can ask for it and then they have 18 months to
15:34:38 establish it.
15:34:39 So they have, if you were to grant this, they would
15:34:42 have 18 months to build, and then get their license
15:34:45 and open up.
15:34:47 Or they will be posted for dry.
15:34:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I believe a couple of months ago we
15:34:51 did that for Wal-Mart, didn't we?
15:34:55 On Gandy?
15:34:58 Kennedy?
15:34:58 >>> Kennedy, I'm sorry.
15:35:04 Yes, it does happen occasionally.
15:35:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Officer Miller.
15:35:12 >>> Good afternoon.
15:35:13 It has been a long afternoon.
15:35:15 Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police department.
15:35:19 We have no objections to the wet zoning.
15:35:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
15:35:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone in objection to it?
15:35:28 >>GWEN MILLER: He's got to put his name on the record.
15:35:33 >>> I have been sworn.
15:35:34 Michael Horner, 14502 Dale Mabry, representing the

15:35:36 applicant and the owner in this request.
15:35:42 Excuse me, owner as of Monday. He's going to be
15:35:42 buying this property for $350,000 and constructing a
15:35:43 new $400,000 building.
15:35:46 So this is a small businessman trying to improve this
15:35:48 neighborhood and sticking his neck out.
15:35:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Anybody who has questions?
15:35:53 Mr. Dingfelder?
15:35:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, I do have a question.
15:35:58 It sounds like a good thing, a nice little grocery
15:36:01 store, and sounds like a niche type of market.
15:36:07 The only thing that concerns me, you know, thinking
15:36:09 about beer and wine, additional beer and wine on
15:36:12 Nebraska, an opportunity for beer and wine on
15:36:18 Nebraska, and Nebraska is sort of a problem street.
15:36:21 But I don't want to be Mr. Naysayer in terms of
15:36:24 somebody legitimately coming in to buy groceries and
15:36:27 they want top buy a six pack or bottle of wine or
15:36:30 something.
15:36:30 That's all fine and good.
15:36:31 But my concern would be singles.
15:36:34 Because I don't think we need to encourage that type

15:36:37 of drinking along that type of street.
15:36:41 So I don't know if you all thought about that at all,
15:36:44 or if you have any problem with precluding singles,
15:36:47 you know, from your sales as a condition.
15:36:51 I think four churches and one preschool within a
15:37:01 thousand feet.
15:37:03 That just gives me a little pause and a little
15:37:06 concern.
15:37:07 >>> We have not spoken on that issue.
15:37:10 I can certainly talk to my patients.
15:37:12 They have been sitting here patiently and nervously
15:37:14 all day.
15:37:15 I will say those spaces have been vacated.
15:37:19 We have trade to contact them the last four months.
15:37:21 There is an academy, day school, I believe, a thousand
15:37:24 feet north.
15:37:25 We did have discussion.
15:37:26 They were not opposed.
15:37:28 So if you will allow me to ask my client briefly.
15:37:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is there a neighborhood
15:37:36 association?
15:37:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't see anything on the report.

15:37:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is there a neighborhood association
15:37:56 in this area?
15:37:56 >>> Mr. Dingfelder, I spoke with the client.
15:38:09 He would like to have the same flexibility that
15:38:12 everybody has, a small business, a grocery store,
15:38:14 fresh meat, fresh produce, and if they want to break
15:38:18 up the single they can but he would prefer not to have
15:38:20 any additional restriction.
15:38:21 We did speak with Pete Johnson represent ago couple of
15:38:24 the property owners.
15:38:25 He was hear all this morning.
15:38:26 They thought it was going to be a bar.
15:38:28 They have now removed their opposition.
15:38:30 They are in support.
15:38:31 Not having a bar, would support new construction, new
15:38:35 business.
15:38:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Maybe I sound a little prudish, but
15:38:41 I think Nebraska had some problems.
15:38:43 And, you know, because of the daycare and maybe the
15:38:49 churches that are nearby, I can't support it with the
15:38:51 singles.
15:38:52 But maybe you guys can.

15:38:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Officer Miller, you had a question?
15:38:58 >>> The Tampa community center is the civic
15:39:06 association for that area.
15:39:07 During my investigation I had nobody said anything
15:39:10 when I made contact.
15:39:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is East Tampa?
15:39:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No.
15:39:15 This is Bougainvillea about six blocks south of
15:39:17 Fowler.
15:39:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If in a one else is going to speak I
15:39:27 would like to close the public hearing.
15:39:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second to close.
15:39:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, not knowing what the
15:39:36 council's particular intention is just knowing there
15:39:38 is an objection I want the record to reflect that Mr.
15:39:42 Horner hasn't had an opportunity to make a full
15:39:45 presentation, and if council is inclined to do
15:39:47 something against his interest I would give him the
15:39:49 opportunity to make his case before you do so.
15:39:51 >> I
15:39:55 >>> We'll waive presentation.
15:39:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.

15:40:01 Reverend Scott?
15:40:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move upon first reading, an ordinance
15:40:06 making lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol
15:40:08 of more than 1% by weight not more than 14% wait
15:40:13 weight and line beer and wines 2(APS) in sealed
15:40:16 containers for consumption off premises only at or
15:40:19 from that certain lot, plot or tract of land located
15:40:22 at 905 east Holland street and 10409-10411 north
15:40:29 Nebraska Avenue, Tampa, Florida as more particularly
15:40:31 described in section 2 hereof waiving certain
15:40:33 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
15:40:35 findings providing for repeal of all ordinances in
15:40:37 conflict providing an effective date.
15:40:40 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
15:40:41 Question on the motion, Mrs. Saul-Sena?
15:40:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm sorry it took me so long but I
15:40:48 finally found the location and it is a section of
15:40:50 Nebraska Avenue that we have been trying to clean up
15:40:53 and make nicer, and it isn't necessarily all there
15:40:59 yet.
15:40:59 And based on the idea of supporting new business but
15:41:02 also protecting the neighborhood, I would only support

15:41:05 this if the petitioner agreed to only sell singles.
15:41:10 But given that he has -- I mean not sell singles.
15:41:13 So since he hasn't agreed to that I won't support it.
15:41:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Madam Chair, there's a lot of areas
15:41:20 of the City of Tampa that are in transition, certainly
15:41:22 another area that I can recall off the top of my head
15:41:25 is 22nd street, and Hillsborough Avenue, where it's
15:41:28 going to change from the funland drive-in theater to
15:41:31 Wal-Mart.
15:41:32 And I want to see if Wal-Mart is treated the same way
15:41:35 as this petitioner is treated.
15:41:37 That's all I am going to say.
15:41:39 >>: That's East Tampa.
15:41:40 >> I'm just saying that.
15:41:42 I want to see the same restrictions within a block.
15:41:49 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I recently went into Reverend
15:41:50 Scott's area.
15:41:51 I told him I was going over there. This hotel, a
15:41:54 small businessman wanted to come in, because our city
15:41:56 hasn't been doing their job in law enforcement, okay?
15:42:00 That place is a mess.
15:42:01 When you're driving on 41, I guess it is, you see all

15:42:06 those signs hanging up there. I took pictures of all
15:42:09 those signs and gave them to code enforcement and told
15:42:12 them to get over there and clean it up.
15:42:14 Some businessman shouldn't be denied.
15:42:17 And I sympathize with John. If I was running a place
15:42:21 like that, I would rather sell whatever I can sell.
15:42:24 If it's one -- the guy may only have two bucks with
15:42:28 him.
15:42:28 But if he's willing to come in and spend his money,
15:42:30 give the small businessman a chance.
15:42:36 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
15:42:42 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
15:42:43 Opposed, Nay.
15:42:45 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and
15:42:51 Saul-Sena voting no, and Mulhern being absent.
15:42:57 >>> Thank you, council.
15:42:58 >> Second reading of the ordinance will be held April
15:43:00 3rd at 9:30 a.m.
15:43:02 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:43:07 Ms. Kert brought down the copies for item number 125.
15:43:10 And then once we read this, you can read 122, which
15:43:16 strikes the majority of chapter 3.

15:43:18 To highlight the changes there were four as you noted,
15:43:20 page 5, paragraph B-1, we struck the first sentence,
15:43:24 struck the first word "therefore" and capitalized
15:43:28 application, so now it complies with parking and
15:43:30 that's your discretion in the special use process.
15:43:32 Page 6, C-1, page 6-A-1 and page 7, B-1.
15:43:38 So those four changes were made as directed.
15:43:41 I do have a copy for the clerk.
15:43:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you read that, please?
15:43:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Oh, certainly.
15:43:55 I would like to move for second reading and adoption
15:43:57 an ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida making
15:44:01 comprehensive revisions to City of Tampa code of
15:44:03 ordinances, chapter 27, zoning, amending article XXII
15:44:08 reserved, amending section 27-143, accessory uses,
15:44:13 amending section 27-267, classes of special use
15:44:17 permits, agent or body responsible for each general
15:44:20 procedure, amending section 27-269, general standards,
15:44:25 amending section 27-270, conditions and safeguards,
15:44:29 amending section 27-271, lapse of special uses,
15:44:35 amending section 27-272, regulations governing
15:44:39 individual special uses by adding provisions for

15:44:42 alcoholic beverage sales, amending section 27-294,
15:44:47 special uses not to be considered nonconforming,
15:44:51 amending section 27-545, definitions, amending article
15:44:57 XXII reserved, amending section 27-521, reserved,
15:45:02 amending section 27-522, reserved, amending section
15:45:06 27-523, reserved, amending section 27-524, reserved,
15:45:12 repealing all ordinances or parts of ordinances in
15:45:15 conflict therewith, providing for severability,
15:45:18 providing an effective date.
15:45:19 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
15:45:21 Vote and record.
15:45:27 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Mulhern
15:45:33 being absent.
15:45:36 >>GWEN MILLER: We need 122.
15:45:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I read it off the agenda?
15:45:52 It hasn't changed?
15:45:54 We opened it earlier.
15:46:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close.
15:46:05 (Motion carried)
15:46:06 >> Move the following ordinance upon second reading,
15:46:08 an ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida making
15:46:11 comprehensive revisions to City of Tampa code of

15:46:14 ordinances chapter 3, alcoholic beverages, amending
15:46:16 section 3-1 title, 3-2 alcoholic beverage zoning
15:46:21 required, 3-3 regarding nonconforming uses, 3-4
15:46:26 regarding prior existing clubhouses, 3-21 definitions,
15:46:31 3-29-1 conditions for approval in the downtown Ybor
15:46:35 City historic district, Channel District, 3-50, fees,
15:46:39 3-51, applicability, 3-52, regarding petitions for
15:46:44 zoning of sale of alcoholic beverages, 3-53, regarding
15:46:48 temporary wet zonings, 3-54, regarding sidewalk cafes,
15:46:52 3-60, regarding notice, 3-70, general guidelines,
15:46:57 3-72, petitioner, representative to removal of
15:47:00 conditions, 3-75, petitioner, representative to appear
15:47:03 at hearing, 3-76 regarding conditional, C, zoning,
15:47:08 3-80 regarding R classification, 3-90 regarding
15:47:11 discontinuance of sale, 3-91 regarding reversion to
15:47:15 dry status, 3-100, revocation and suspension for
15:47:18 cause, 3-101 regarding notice of intention to revert
15:47:22 property to dry, 3-110 through 3-117 bottle clubs and
15:47:26 3-120 through 3-128, clubhouses, providing for repeal
15:47:31 of all ordinances in conflict, providing for
15:47:34 severability, providing an effective date.
15:47:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.

15:47:37 Vote and record.
15:47:42 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Saul-Sena
15:47:48 being absent at vote and Mulhern absent.
15:47:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And a big shout out to Cathy Coyle
15:47:56 and Rebecca Kert and anyone else who worked on these
15:48:00 very complex -- no, not you.
15:48:02 [ Laughter ]
15:48:02 >>CATHERINE COYLE: An enormous weight off our
15:48:08 shoulder.
15:48:09 Thank you, council.
15:48:11 130.
15:48:12 The petition before you is WZ 08-50, 3255 West Cypress
15:48:18 Avenue, street.
15:48:21 They are requesting 2(APS) package sales of bare and
15:48:23 wine, the reference on the -- not Elmo anymore.
15:48:34 I'm not sure what you call it.
15:48:36 The overhead.
15:48:39 Big apple grocery and deli.
15:48:41 You can see it on the layout.
15:48:44 This is cypress.
15:48:48 There is one wet zoned establishment.
15:48:54 There is one parcel within 1,000 feet.

15:49:00 There are no institutional uses within a thousand
15:49:02 feet.
15:49:04 What they are doing here is, you can see the big apple
15:49:10 grocery and deli here.
15:49:11 They want to expand the area.
15:49:25 Staff has no objection to the request.
15:49:27 Available for questions.
15:49:33 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
15:49:35 department.
15:49:36 The Tampa Police Department has no objection to this
15:49:38 wet zoning.
15:49:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
15:49:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Does the big apple already have
15:49:50 this use, and they are just requesting additional
15:49:53 space?
15:49:56 >> Put your name on the record.
15:49:59 Put your name on the record.
15:49:59 >>> My name is Joseph Diaz, office at 2522 West
15:50:03 Kennedy Boulevard here on behalf of the petitioner.
15:50:07 >>CHAIRMAN: And you have been sworn?
15:50:08 >>> And I have been sworn.
15:50:09 If you will notice on the Elmo, there's like some

15:50:12 brick coming down the building.
15:50:15 From there west going away from the big apple, that
15:50:18 property got wet zoned many years ago.
15:50:20 There's an existing ordinance on that property.
15:50:25 By way of background, my client bought what was the
15:50:29 original building which was just the piece -- this is
15:50:34 what was originally there.
15:50:35 And this is what already has a 2(APS).
15:50:46 My clients bought this back in the 70s, operated it
15:50:49 for many years.
15:50:50 My clients got older.
15:50:52 They sold off the business.
15:50:53 Along the way, they added the other half of the
15:50:56 building, and not realizing it needed to be wet zoned
15:51:00 they operate add grocery store in the whole location
15:51:03 forever and ever and ever.
15:51:05 They then downsized the business, sold it off, and in
15:51:10 the non-wet zoned area.
15:51:11 For awhile they operated a small little restaurant.
15:51:13 Now they leased it back out as a grocery store again
15:51:17 and told the tenant, oh, yeah, wet the whole building.
15:51:21 So they open it and along comes Joe Papy

15:51:24 African-American city licensing and says hold it, only
15:51:27 half of the building is wet zoned.
15:51:28 The east half is not wet zoned.
15:51:32 Now having just told you that, why we are here is that
15:51:36 we would really like our clients to come in the front
15:51:39 door because we are selling alcoholic beverages right
15:51:42 now entirely legal because the people are coming in
15:51:44 and out the west door and we have our beer on the west
15:51:47 side of the building.
15:51:48 But we would really lake to be able to put the beer on
15:51:51 the east side of the building and have people come in
15:51:54 the east side of the building so we filed this
15:51:57 application seeking to wet zone the whole building.
15:51:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Now this is a West Tampa solution.
15:52:04 >>> It's a West Tampa problem.
15:52:07 [ Laughter ]
15:52:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone in the public want to speak on
15:52:09 item number 130?
15:52:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
15:52:11 >> Second.
15:52:12 (Motion carried).
15:52:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance repealing

15:52:17 ordinance number 8031-A making lawful the sale of
15:52:20 beverage containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight
15:52:23 and not more than 14% by weight and wines regardless
15:52:26 of alcoholic content beer and wine 2(APS) in sealed
15:52:29 containers for consumption off premises only at or
15:52:32 from that certain lot plot or tract of land located at
15:52:35 3255 West Cypress street Tampa, Florida as more
15:52:39 particularly described in section 3 hereof waiving
15:52:41 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
15:52:44 findings providing for repeal of all ordinances in
15:52:47 conflict providing an effective date.
15:52:49 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Caetano
15:52:51 being absent at vote and Mulhern being absent.
15:52:56 Second reading of the ordinance will be April 3rd
15:52:58 at 9:30 a.m.
15:52:59 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:53:10 WZ 08-54, petitioner's name is select hotels group,
15:53:15 4811 west Main Street, map 4.
15:53:18 They are requesting a 2(COP-X) consumption on premises
15:53:24 beer and wine only, to sell beer and wine in
15:53:26 association with a hotel, the property contains a six
15:53:29 story hotel and pool area.

15:53:31 The request is for 82,239 square feet with 16,331
15:53:37 square feet, with the ground level and outside area of
15:53:43 3150 square feet, the establishment 66 seats total
15:53:46 with 50 located inside.
15:53:49 The incidental sales are incidental to the primary
15:53:52 function of the business as a hotel.
15:53:53 They are wet zoning the entire hotel in order to
15:53:55 provide room service to all the floors.
15:53:59 There are two wet zoned establishments within a
15:54:01 thousand feet.
15:54:03 No residential, no institutional within a thousand
15:54:05 feet.
15:54:06 You do see the layout of the hotel on the overhead.
15:54:11 And you can see this is Westshore, and Main Street.
15:54:16 This is, I believe, ridge crest here.
15:54:18 This is the hotel behind it.
15:54:19 Staff has no objections to the request.
15:54:21 Just so you know, it was converted, typically the
15:54:33 airport.
15:54:35 I'm available for any questions.
15:54:36 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
15:54:38 department.

15:54:39 I have been sworn.
15:54:40 Police have no objection to this wet zoning.
15:54:47 >>> Grace Yang, 1301 North Franklin Street, Tampa
15:54:50 33602.
15:54:53 I have been sworn.
15:54:56 On behalf of petitioner.
15:54:58 Here to answer any questions.
15:54:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone to speak on 131?
15:55:02 >> Move to close.
15:55:03 >> Second.
15:55:03 (Motion carried).
15:55:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Reverend Scott, would you read that?
15:55:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would like to move an ordinance,
15:55:16 first reading of ordinance, for the sale of beverages
15:55:20 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not
15:55:23 more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of
15:55:25 alcoholic content beer and wine 2(COP-X) for
15:55:28 consumption on the premises only at or from that
15:55:30 certain lot plot or tract ever land located at 4811
15:55:34 west Main Street, Tampa, Florida as more particularly
15:55:36 described in section 2 hereof waiving certain
15:55:38 restrictions as to distance based upon certain

15:55:40 findings providing for repeal of all ordinances in
15:55:43 conflict providing an effective date.
15:55:44 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
15:55:45 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Mulhern
15:55:51 being absent and Caetano being absent at vote.
15:55:55 Second reading of the ordinance will be April 3rd
15:55:58 and 9:30 a.m.
15:55:59 >>GWEN MILLER: 132, Ms. Coyle.
15:56:04 Are you ready to schedule that for April 17th?
15:56:08 Is that okay?
15:56:09 >>> Rescheduled to April 17th?
15:56:18 I believe it already has been.
15:56:20 >> So moved.
15:56:21 >> Second.
15:56:21 (Motion carried)
15:56:22 >>GWEN MILLER: We now go to information by council
15:56:27 members.
15:56:28 Mrs. Saul-Sena.
15:56:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Earlier today, we heard from Susan
15:56:32 long, a representative from the Seminole Heights about
15:56:34 the problem with drop-in homeless place on Nebraska
15:56:38 Avenue.

15:56:38 I would like to request that the administration report
15:56:41 back in 30 days of what suggestions they can make to
15:56:49 better protect the neighborhood from the problems
15:56:52 created by that use.
15:56:53 >> Second.
15:56:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Maybe code enforcement to go into the
15:56:59 neighborhood, too.
15:57:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Code enforcement, police.
15:57:04 I'm not insensitive to the people who need the use but
15:57:07 we need to protect --
15:57:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
15:57:10 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
15:57:11 Opposed, Nay.
15:57:12 (Motion carried).
15:57:12 Anything else?
15:57:13 Mr. Miranda.
15:57:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am going to speak on something I
15:57:16 hardly ever do.
15:57:17 The Florida Senate has tackled tough things like
15:57:22 insurance, taxes, education, and now sales tax, and
15:57:24 they want to raise the sales tax to those that can
15:57:27 least afford it.

15:57:29 With income and taxes are not based on what a person's
15:57:33 income is, you destroy the middle and the lower class,
15:57:36 even further.
15:57:37 But I do want to thank them for passing the baggy
15:57:41 pants law.
15:57:42 Baggy pants I think is the greatest thing they have
15:57:45 ever done.
15:57:47 That's the number one priority in this state.
15:57:50 [ Laughter ]
15:57:52 It sounds like they are going to work on it.
15:57:54 But I wish them best of luck on passing the baggy
15:57:57 pants.
15:58:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
15:58:02 >>> In a.
15:58:02 They will safe a lot of money on their insurance, too.
15:58:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm not sure if I can follow that
15:58:10 but I'll give you a quick update on the streetcar
15:58:12 issue.
15:58:13 And I won't even go into detail.
15:58:15 But it looks like we are making good progress on the
15:58:18 possibility of doing that extension.
15:58:21 There's been good agreement between the streetcar

15:58:23 board and the Hart Finance Committee, and we are going
15:58:27 to meet jointly next week, and then hopefully bring it
15:58:31 back to the MPO and other directions later on.
15:58:34 What I would like to do, because I think there's a
15:58:38 procedural step that we are going to need, is schedule
15:58:40 for April 3rd.
15:58:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
15:58:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: At our next regular meeting a
15:58:47 report from our city staff on the streetcar financial
15:58:49 issues.
15:58:50 And allow staff to prepare any appropriate resolutions
15:58:55 for us to review the street car financial issues.
15:58:59 That way, I'll create a slot there, and if there's a
15:59:02 resolution for staff, that slot will be there for them
15:59:07 to bring a resolution to us, appropriate with the
15:59:09 streetcar.
15:59:12 So that's my motion.
15:59:13 >>GWEN MILLER: That's a second?
15:59:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
15:59:16 (Motion carried).
15:59:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
15:59:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Nothing else.

15:59:19 Thank you.
15:59:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
15:59:22 Council, reverend Abraham brown, as I understand, has
15:59:25 been in the hospital, was in intensive care, ICU, is
15:59:29 in a regular ram now, but he certainly needs our
15:59:33 prayers.
15:59:34 But more important he retired from first Baptist and I
15:59:37 would like us to issue a proclamation.
15:59:40 Many years of service to this community in terms of
15:59:44 teaching at the school, coaching, civil rights
15:59:47 involvement, a great humanitarian.
15:59:49 I think we all need to recognize him.
15:59:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
15:59:52 (Motion carried)
15:59:53 Anything else?
15:59:54 Clerk, anything?
15:59:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved to receive and file the
16:00:00 documents that came through today.
16:00:01 (Motion carried).
16:00:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If there's anything else coming
16:00:07 through council you are going to get fired.
16:00:09 [ Laughter ]

16:00:12 >>GWEN MILLER: We go to the audience portion.
16:00:16 (Meeting adjourned at 4:00 p.m.)
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