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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOPS
APRIL 24, 2008
9:00 A.M. SESSION

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>>THOMAS SCOTT: Good morning.
09:06:24:03 We would like to call the Tampa City Council to order
09:06:27:04 at this time.
09:06:27:19 We'll have councilman Joseph Caetano to introduce our
09:06:32:13 special guests today.
09:06:47:00 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Good morning.
09:06:47:19 We'll have our invocation and then do the Pledge of
09:06:50:06 Allegiance immediately after.
09:06:52:09 May we bless this beautiful day in our great City of
09:06:55:21 Tampa and may the members of City Council make the
09:06:58:06 correct decisions in their voting and all of the
09:07:00:13 administrators who will take part in our proceeding
09:07:03:01 will take consideration to the best of their ability in
09:07:06:09 presenting their facts to the City Council.

09:07:08:06 All of our members of our fire department, police
09:07:11:00 department and various city workers be under the
09:07:13:18 watchful eye of the Lord.
09:07:14:28 Let us pray for all servicemen and women who are
09:07:17:27 protecting our country, putting their lives on line and
09:07:20:24 may they return to their loved ones unharmed and let us
09:07:24:06 pray for all the fallen men and women who have given
09:07:27:00 their lives to protect us from our enemies.
09:07:29:03 Amen.
09:07:32:16 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:07:49:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Council member Caetano.
09:07:53:09 Roll call.
09:07:55:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:07:57:10 >> Dingfelder?
09:07:59:12 >> Scott?
09:08:00:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:08:01:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:08:02:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:08:04:09 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Here.
09:08:05:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:08:09:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder sent a memoranda,
09:08:12:09 he's running a few minutes late.
09:08:14:22 He's en route.
09:08:15:19 Also, today is bring your kid to work day.
09:08:20:09 We have Ms. Bridget Gordon with us from public works,

09:08:23:12 transportation division, and she has a group of
09:08:28:09 children with her today.
09:08:29:12 So what we're going to do is ask each one to come up
09:08:32:21 and maybe give their name and we have a little gift bag
09:08:36:22 for them.
09:08:37:03 Each one come to the mike, state your name and what
09:08:39:22 school you attend.
09:08:40:21 Pull the mike down so we can --
09:09:01:09 [ Introduction of Children ]
09:09:36:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's give them a hand.
09:09:37:24 Thank you for being here.
09:09:39:21 [ APPLAUSE ]
09:09:39:28 So welcome, thank you for being here with us today.
09:09:45:03 You each get a little gift bag on behalf of City
09:09:50:03 Council.
09:09:50:13 Council, on our agenda, we have the first item that was
09:09:57:15 carried over from our regular meeting on last Thursday.
09:10:00:03 I want you to take note that it is not a workshop.
09:10:05:28 The item is not a workshop.
09:10:07:22 We voted to continue the item to allow Councilwoman
09:10:12:06 Mary Mulhern to get her questions answered so we can
09:10:14:24 vote today.
09:10:15:13 At this time, the chair will yield to Councilwoman Mary
09:10:18:19 Mulhern.
09:10:20:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Chairman Miller.

09:10:22:15 First I want to thank Jan McQueen for all the time
09:10:27:15 she spent educating me about water in the county and in
09:10:32:04 Florida and in Hillsborough County and Tampa in
09:10:37:10 particular, and I want to make it very clear that I
09:10:44:24 trust her advice, and my questions last week were
09:10:47:09 purely as a result of feeling that this was a very big
09:10:54:13 decision we were asked to make, this MOU, to sign on to
09:10:57:27 this MOU.
09:10:59:00 And we did not have the time to get -- get all of our
09:11:04:21 questions answered.
09:11:05:16 And Jan, in the day or two before our last meeting
09:11:16:06 answered to the best extent everything that I had time
09:11:18:27 to ask her or knew to ask her and in the last few days
09:11:23:22 has helped me, too.
09:11:25:00 And I still have some questions, although we went over
09:11:28:28 the whole list of questions I had given her, and they

09:11:32:28 were -- they were all answered.
09:11:36:06 So, there are a couple of things that still concern me,
09:11:44:06 and I want to make certain that as we go forward, as we
09:11:47:27 sign this MOU that I think what I had questioned last
09:11:56:18 week was whether we were making a commitment to give
09:12:02:09 pretty much all our reclaimed water.
09:12:04:07 And when Jan gave me the breakdown of all the MGDs
09:12:07:22 and where the reclaimed water was coming from, would
09:12:10:16 come from if this goes through, and where it was going,

09:12:15:01 it's pretty clear that it's all accounted for if we go
09:12:19:22 forward with an agreement after negotiating.
09:12:22:21 So that's my number one concern is that it is -- you
09:12:29:12 know, this reclaimed water is a public asset that's
09:12:32:10 only going to become more valuable as water is more and
09:12:36:04 more scarce.
09:12:38:00 And as we start to negotiate -- when we go forward to
09:12:41:13 negotiate this in good faith, we are essentially saying
09:12:46:15 we're going to work on this project to sell our
09:12:50:06 reclaimed water entirely out of the city other than the
09:12:55:06 water that we already have plans for.
09:12:57:25 I realize these projects in the works that
09:13:01:10 Mr. Daignault has outlined, but very, very large
09:13:06:09 portion of the city will not be able to have reclaimed
09:13:10:15 water for irrigation, any new businesses and all the
09:13:15:15 residents that don't have it at this point, which is
09:13:17:21 pretty much all of Tampa north of Columbus.
09:13:26:21 So that is my concern.
09:13:27:24 I just wanted to state that openly, and I think this
09:13:30:09 is -- it is a public asset, and it's important that the
09:13:35:06 public knows that the City of Tampa is negotiating to
09:13:41:04 reach an agreement where our reclaimed water will be
09:13:45:09 going outside of the city.
09:13:46:21 Now, the benefits are huge if this all works out.
09:13:50:15 We'll no longer be dumping the water into the bay.

09:13:53:24 We'll be using it, hopefully, in an environmentally
09:13:58:24 sustainable way to recharge the aquifer but, again,
09:14:03:27 that's going to happen outside of the city.
09:14:06:21 We're not going to be recharging any of the groundwater
09:14:08:27 in the City of Tampa.
09:14:09:24 So that's important, and the other thing I want to say,
09:14:17:07 which is not in particular about -- well, no.
09:14:21:24 The other thing was -- the one thing is all the
09:14:25:04 water -- it's understood that we are committing and as
09:14:27:21 we -- I know Jan said we don't commit -- we don't have
09:14:31:19 a contract.
09:14:33:24 We're just agreeing to negotiate, but in good faith,
09:14:36:21 we're agreeing that we're going to negotiate based on
09:14:39:12 these numbers, which basically says we're not going to
09:14:42:28 have the ability to do any planning under this
09:14:46:27 memorandum of understanding for any of this reclaimed
09:14:50:15 water that is now online to come back to the City of
09:14:53:21 Tampa.
09:14:54:03 So that was one thing.
09:14:56:00 My second question, which I think has been pretty much
09:15:00:12 answered was about the environmental sustainability and
09:15:08:09 the safety of putting the water back into the -- back
09:15:17:16 into the ground, basically, and whether this was safe.
09:15:20:18 I know it's better for it to go through the filtration
09:15:23:21 system in this recharging project, but is that -- I

09:15:28:19 would like to know as we go forward and if we do come
09:15:31:15 to any kind of agreement, before we agree to anything,
09:15:34:18 we need to know that what the environmental effects of
09:15:38:04 where this water is going, and that's the second thing.
09:15:44:13 The third thing is that I don't feel -- you know, we're
09:15:50:16 agreeing to sell our water, I hope sell it, to TECO and
09:15:56:18 Mosaic, and that could open up all kinds of other
09:16:01:15 questions about environmental safety that may not have
09:16:04:21 to do with water.
09:16:10:12 What TECO will use the water for and Mosaic, if they'll
09:16:13:19 be expanding and do more mining that isn't necessarily
09:16:17:13 environmentally good thing.
09:16:19:00 So I want to have an environmental impact study
09:16:25:10 presented to us before we're asked to go forward with
09:16:29:15 any kind of agreement.
09:16:30:18 I think that my fourth is not a question.
09:16:44:15 It's really about City Council and the public having
09:16:54:15 notice and respected and given to make these important
09:16:59:22 decisions that has not been afforded to us in this case
09:17:07:01 a document and an agreement has been in the works for
09:17:11:25 months, if not more, and we didn't get to look at it
09:17:14:24 until two days -- I didn't get to look at it until two
09:17:18:03 days before I was asked to vote on it.
09:17:21:03 When I pulled it -- if I hadn't asked to pull it off
09:17:26:06 the agenda last week and ask my questions here and

09:17:29:21 convince my reluctant colleagues to give me just a week
09:17:35:18 to look at this, the public wouldn't have known
09:17:37:25 anything about it, and I wouldn't have been able to
09:17:40:27 bring up these questions which we need to have stated
09:17:48:09 before we sign this.
09:17:49:12 I have to have those questions, those three things I
09:17:54:21 just mentioned -- I need a commitment from the
09:18:03:15 administration that those things will happen, and then
09:18:05:10 that we will have enough time to look at whatever
09:18:09:13 agreement we're going to be asked to approve, I'd like
09:18:14:12 to have a minimum of a month to look at it before we
09:18:21:27 have to vote, and it would also be good if we could
09:18:25:18 have periodic reports on this.
09:18:29:13 I don't know how often, maybe, Jan, you can recommend
09:18:32:18 how often you would think it would be practical to come
09:18:35:06 back to us and tell us what's happening with the
09:18:37:07 negotiations.
09:18:37:27 And then I wanted to read -- one of our constituents
09:18:45:16 read the story in the paper last week about the whole
09:18:48:00 issue of this agreement.
09:18:51:00 And she has been working day and night to get her
09:18:55:16 questions answered.
09:18:56:09 The good news is she's telling me, and this is just
09:19:04:25 somebody who is very knowledgeable and did all this
09:19:07:09 research, and she's recommending to me that this looks

09:19:09:19 like a good thing for the City of Tampa overall, and we
09:19:12:19 should go forward with it.
09:19:13:22 But I also want to read to you what this constituent
09:19:17:19 said to me before I talked to her, nothing to do with
09:19:21:21 any of my questions, but she said, first, the city's
09:19:27:25 wastewater gang should be spanked for not properly
09:19:31:03 developing the predicate argument for this project for
09:19:34:21 you and for the citizens so that you could have
09:19:37:19 celebrated this proposal, not just approved it.
09:19:40:03 And that's my problem that we had to go through this
09:19:44:10 process when, if I had had the notice and Jan had had
09:19:48:04 the time to talk to me and Mr. Daignault and anyone
09:19:52:09 else, Sandra, I would have been probably convinced, I
09:19:57:27 might even have gotten those questions I came up with
09:20:01:24 answered without us having to do this.
09:20:04:03 I'm just asking the administration and pointing out
09:20:08:03 that even our constituents feel that we not -- not only
09:20:13:18 Council, but the public is not getting the kind of
09:20:15:18 notice we need when we're entering into big and small
09:20:20:07 types of contracts and negotiations.
09:20:24:24 So if I was hard on Jan last week, I really didn't mean
09:20:35:16 to be and I really totally trust her counsel, but I
09:20:38:16 felt that was not -- I don't blame her as the messenger
09:20:42:12 for not giving Council the time to really look at this
09:20:46:03 important proposal.

09:20:47:03 So I have my questions answered.
09:20:50:03 I don't know if anyone else had anything else.
09:20:53:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:20:54:18 Councilman Saul-Sena.
09:20:56:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:20:56:24 I salute you for bringing up further discussion,
09:21:00:09 because I think it warrants it.
09:21:02:06 The idea of having public explanations prior to a
09:21:06:01 significant vote perhaps workshopping something prior
09:21:10:27 to coming to Council for a vote would really make a lot
09:21:13:04 of sense for us and the public and also save you time.
09:21:15:25 The way it was, you met with us individually, it was
09:21:18:03 very helpful, but it took a lot of your time.
09:21:20:06 Perhaps your time would have been better spent just
09:21:22:09 having a public workshop.
09:21:23:24 Two quick questions for Jan.
09:21:25:18 One is, this agreement means that ultimately we'll use
09:21:30:00 less of our potable water because reclaimed water can
09:21:34:16 be used to cool these industrial uses, correct?
09:21:39:06 >> No.
09:21:39:21 This agreement doesn't mean that at all.
09:21:41:12 This agreement only allows us to negotiate a potential
09:21:44:18 agreement down the road.
09:21:46:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But ultimately, that would result in
09:21:49:03 using reclaimed water rather than potable water.

09:21:52:12 Isn't that the punchline that we wouldn't be using our
09:21:56:09 freshwater?
09:21:57:06 >> This potential project, if we entered into, this
09:22:00:24 reclaimed water would be used outside of the city, so
09:22:05:13 it wouldn't offset any of our potable water use.
09:22:08:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But it would offset potable water
09:22:10:22 use from our aquifer.
09:22:16:03 >> In the reclaimed water that Tampa electric is
09:22:22:00 proposing to use it for, they would use the reclaimed
09:22:24:10 instead of withdrawing groundwater in their area.
09:22:27:00 But that would be in Polk County. That would not be
09:22:28:22 either in the city or in Hillsborough County.
09:22:30:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It wouldn't be affecting the plant
09:22:32:06 that's in Hillsborough County?
09:22:35:12 >> No.
09:22:36:00 There is in our already proposed expansion, we are
09:22:38:12 talking with TECO bayside to provide them with
09:22:42:07 reclaimed water, but that's not within this potential
09:22:45:00 project.
09:22:45:21 That is already reclaimed water that's identified and
09:22:48:15 included in the expansion that we're working on.
09:22:51:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:22:51:27 And the other question is, are you developing an
09:22:56:15 overall plan for our reclaimed water that long-term,
09:23:02:00 big-picture and the water that we're talking about in

09:23:04:16 this MOU would be a portion of that, but not the
09:23:09:12 entirety of it?
09:23:10:18 Will Council receive a plan from you addressing the
09:23:15:27 future sort of use plans for the reclaimed?
09:23:20:03 I know now we have a huge amount that we're not using
09:23:24:00 that's just being dumped that's hurting the bay.
09:23:27:06 >> That's right -- well, not hurting --
09:23:29:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This MOU only addresses a portion of
09:23:33:18 it, and perhaps you could tell me what portion you
09:23:36:27 anticipate.
09:23:38:00 >> The proposed expansion that we are working on would
09:23:42:27 potentially -- if fully implemented, would potentially
09:23:45:24 use between 10 and 12 MGD of the available water.
09:23:51:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What percentage is that of the total
09:23:53:27 available reclaimed?
09:23:54:27 >> That's about 20%.
09:23:56:03 If the city agrees to enter into a water supply
09:24:00:16 agreement later on for this project, it's anticipated
09:24:05:18 that that would use almost all of the remainder of the
09:24:10:19 available reclaimed water, if not all of the available
09:24:16:03 reclaimed water from our plant that's being discharged
09:24:19:06 from our plant.
09:24:20:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So that would preclude being able to
09:24:22:15 expand our reclaim system to --
09:24:25:00 >> I'm sorry?

09:24:25:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That would preclude our being able
09:24:27:09 to expand our reclaim system, our star system to other
09:24:30:09 neighborhoods?
09:24:31:06 >> We've already -- we already have that plan proposed.
09:24:34:24 And that is not included in this.
09:24:36:24 So we have water reserved, so to speak, identified to
09:24:40:03 be used in the expansion of our own system.
09:24:43:28 So -- and that would include increasing the residential
09:24:47:13 use.
09:24:47:24 It would include new industrial and commercial use.
09:24:51:24 That water is not at issue if we go forward with water
09:24:57:21 supply agreement for this project.
09:24:59:21 That's already set aside, reserved, identified for the
09:25:03:06 city's use.
09:25:04:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:25:07:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda and then Mulhern,
09:25:11:15 then we need to vote.
09:25:13:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think you've done an excellent job
09:25:15:18 making your presentation not only this week but last
09:25:18:15 week.
09:25:19:07 Most of us, in fact, all of us know what MOU is on this
09:25:23:01 side.
09:25:23:09 The public that listens to this and read about it, they
09:25:27:01 are right now saying, what are they talking about
09:25:29:09 because it's only initials.

09:25:30:22 Explain to us quickly what an memorandum of
09:25:35:03 understanding is.
09:25:37:24 Does that preclude us from not having another buyer
09:25:41:03 coming in?
09:25:41:21 Does it limit us to one person or one party or two
09:25:45:15 parties?
09:25:47:18 Or can we look to Tampa Bay Water in exchange like
09:25:51:25 we've offered in the past some time ago and things of
09:25:56:06 this nature?
09:25:59:24 The distribution in the city has not been going
09:26:02:01 forward, and I can be corrected by the individuals who
09:26:04:15 are here legally and in the departments because there's
09:26:09:09 been some differences in lawsuits resulting from the
09:26:12:21 initial digging and distributing of that water that
09:26:18:01 right now we can't do it 100% correct because there's
09:26:22:24 some obstruction in the lines.
09:26:24:25 Am I correct in that sense?
09:26:30:09 >> Yes, sir.
09:26:31:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.
09:26:32:06 We can't do what we want to do for some time because of
09:26:36:21 legal problems that we had.
09:26:38:16 That's why the distribution into the first part of star
09:26:41:07 one, which is south Tampa area recharge or reclaim,
09:26:45:22 hasn't been completed to its fullest.
09:26:48:09 As you well know, we're up to a little over 3,000, and

09:26:52:10 those individuals who have reclaim, that system was
09:26:55:15 designed to go to about 8,000.
09:26:57:10 And we're at a stand still now because we have the
09:27:01:06 customers that want to come in, but we can't distribute
09:27:04:06 because the lines, the pressure won't carry out to the
09:27:07:00 maximum.
09:27:07:25 So there's where we're at as far as that.
09:27:10:19 I would imagine that the administration and others
09:27:14:07 sometime in the beginning of the year when these
09:27:17:01 lawsuits are settled would have a much greater asset,
09:27:20:28 value as to what to do and where to put it on for the
09:27:23:27 benefit of all citizens in the city.
09:27:26:27 The reclaimed water is the most valuable asset the city
09:27:32:21 has right now.
09:27:33:19 Years ago, I stated that water some day would be as
09:27:36:19 valuable as oil, and I hope it doesn't go to four
09:27:39:21 dollars and something a gallon.
09:27:41:03 But it's coming to that point of value.
09:27:46:00 And the reason for that is water is the same today as
09:27:51:03 it was a million years ago.
09:27:52:13 There's not one drop less or one drop more.
09:27:55:04 The only problem is that Florida has gone from when I
09:27:58:16 was a little boy of 3 million to 18 million, and
09:28:03:01 there's where the problem lies.
09:28:04:15 The recharge, as I understand it, is you have the south

09:28:08:21 part of the county, you have saltwater intrusion coming
09:28:11:13 in and creating havoc, and those good neighbors that
09:28:15:09 are there.
09:28:15:24 This would recharge those caverns with reclaimed water
09:28:22:03 and push the saltwater out.
09:28:24:12 Whether that's viable or not, I'm not into being an
09:28:28:19 ecological scientist and I don't possess to be one.
09:28:31:28 There will be tests made, I assume, to garner that
09:28:38:10 information and make sure positively these things are
09:28:41:19 done in the right way.

09:28:42:19 The City of Tampa only has one shot at this, and we all
09:28:46:22 agree that it's not that we want to sell all the water
09:28:50:06 and we're not going to have any water for our citizens.
09:28:53:00 We're doing about 55 million gallons a day of reclaimed
09:28:56:27 discharged into the bay.
09:28:58:04 We're using about 1.5 million gallons a day for our own
09:29:01:10 good citizens.
09:29:02:03 That equation is going to change some.
09:29:05:18 But even if it changes to some degree, the question is,
09:29:09:22 do we need all the 55 million gallons of water a day
09:29:12:25 for our own citizens?
09:29:14:16 That's the bottom line.
09:29:19:06 >> If I could address your questions at the beginning,
09:29:24:06 Mr. Miranda, memorandum of understanding, it's between
09:29:28:22 the city, Hillsborough County, Tampa Electric Company

09:29:31:21 and Mosaic fertilizer.
09:29:33:16 It is not a commitment, as we've discussed here last
09:29:36:22 week and this morning.
09:29:38:00 It is a demonstration of the city's commitment to
09:29:44:01 negotiate, to be at the table, to discuss, to listen.
09:29:47:28 There are so many elements of an eventual if the city
09:29:53:09 determines that it wants to go in that direction, a
09:29:55:06 water supply agreement, the costing, the timing, the
09:29:58:15 allocation, the use, the metering, the return of the
09:30:01:07 water if it's not to the city's conditions that we put.
09:30:05:18 The city is within full authority and power to put
09:30:09:07 whatever conditions on any eventual water supply
09:30:13:13 agreement that might come out of this proposal to then
09:30:18:00 come back in front of you to agree to it or not.
09:30:21:24 One of your next questions is -- the four parties to
09:30:27:12 this agreement.
09:30:28:09 Would this agreement preclude the city from entering
09:30:30:21 into the discussions or negotiations with any other
09:30:33:09 party?
09:30:33:18 No, because it doesn't commit the city to this project.
09:30:39:13 It commits the city to discuss.
09:30:41:19 It is a valuable asset.
09:30:43:25 It is a public asset of the city that is becoming more
09:30:46:06 valuable as time goes by.
09:30:49:06 For whatever reason, whether one believes there's a

09:30:54:03 distribution issue as far as water in the State of
09:30:56:06 Florida or whether there's an actual water shortage
09:30:59:09 supply, that's for greater minds than us to -- than for
09:31:03:03 me to discuss, anyway.
09:31:04:10 But for this point in time, in this area, this is a
09:31:07:03 major asset, and obviously is being acknowledged by
09:31:11:06 these parties and others that have discussed with the
09:31:13:21 city in the past the use of this asset.
09:31:17:01 So there is no preclusion by entering into this
09:31:20:06 agreement for the city to see if there are other uses
09:31:24:10 either internally for its own use or externally for
09:31:27:09 other parties.
09:31:28:15 Whether we have master water supply plan for the next
09:31:35:00 30 years or not, I know that's being discussed in our
09:31:37:25 water and wastewater departments so that we would have
09:31:41:10 something to lay out to go forward.
09:31:43:03 It might include this proposed project that's in front
09:31:45:16 of you now.
09:31:46:21 It might include a portion of this or none of it.
09:31:50:09 But that's totally within the city's purview to make
09:31:53:12 that determination, the best and highest use of this
09:31:56:18 asset.
09:31:57:03 The thing is that you have a plan, that you have an
09:32:00:03 identification that this asset is to be used in the
09:32:05:28 best and highest use because there are others that

09:32:08:16 would like to have the availability of this to use for
09:32:11:07 their own needs and uses.
09:32:13:00 So this is a step forward for the city to sit down at
09:32:19:04 the table and find out if it's in its best interest.
09:32:24:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Mulhern and then Dingfelder.
09:32:28:03 We need to make a motion.
09:32:29:12 We are now about five minutes past our time block for
09:32:31:25 the next item.
09:32:33:21 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
09:32:34:06 I wanted to clarify some of the questions that Linda
09:32:37:03 asked, because the reality is, the amount of water
09:32:42:27 committed is almost 55 MGD, not committed, being
09:32:48:24 discussed.
09:32:49:12 The amount of water being discussed is essentially all
09:32:53:06 the reclaimed water that we are not already using, all
09:32:56:25 the water pretty much all the water that's getting
09:32:59:19 dumped into the bay now.
09:33:00:27 And none of this land that we are looking at possibly
09:33:07:13 negotiating and agreeing to, none of that water is
09:33:10:25 earmarked for the city for anything other than the
09:33:15:06 project expansion of reclaim that we already have,
09:33:18:27 which Mr. Miranda has said is doubtful whether we can
09:33:21:27 even do it.
09:33:23:00 So it needs to be clear that if this were to go
09:33:27:18 forward, our reclaimed water is not going to come back

09:33:32:27 to the city.
09:33:33:22 And when Jan talks about -- we're not precluded from
09:33:37:27 negotiating with anyone else or discussing it with
09:33:41:03 anyone else, but we're clearly saying that we're not
09:33:44:21 going to be looking at a way to use that water in the
09:33:48:15 city.
09:33:48:25 I mean, effectively, the MOU means that we're serious
09:33:57:10 about this, and it's pretty much a commitment that
09:33:59:25 right now we're talking to you, and we're not
09:34:02:01 planning -- we are talking to you about doing this.
09:34:06:15 And I think it's a pretty clear signal that we're not
09:34:10:15 talking about expanding reclaimed water other than
09:34:13:16 what's already been proposed.
09:34:19:15 >> Let me say something if I could, Council members.
09:34:22:13 >>MARY MULHERN: Let me ask you this before you say
09:34:24:12 anything.
09:34:24:21 If you're still going to say we can do this if we go
09:34:28:22 through with this proposal, this agreement eventually
09:34:33:12 where is that additional water?
09:34:34:25 I mean, there's not going to be any additional water,
09:34:37:24 according to the numbers that I'm looking at.
09:34:42:00 >> Council members, I hope you think of the staff as
09:34:44:06 our first line of defense.
09:34:46:19 This MOU gives us a seat at the table, and that is all.
09:34:50:18 If we don't believe that there is a good contract,

09:34:57:18 agreement for the city going forward, we're not going
09:34:59:28 to bring it to you.
09:35:01:09 We are going to have to weigh all of the things that
09:35:04:00 you have mentioned.
09:35:06:10 Is it needed in the city?
09:35:08:24 How much is needed in the city?
09:35:10:12 How much could we use?
09:35:11:18 Will it be better for us to save water, reclaimed water
09:35:15:19 and offset potable?
09:35:17:03 Would it be better for us to sell some water, some of
09:35:20:15 the reclaimed water and get it out of the bay?
09:35:22:15 We have to weigh all of those things.
09:35:25:00 These numbers that are being thrown around are very
09:35:28:07 preliminary.
09:35:29:06 In fact, I heard some of them for the first time two
09:35:32:06 days ago.
09:35:32:25 So these numbers are very preliminary, very conceptual
09:35:40:13 at this time.
09:35:42:21 I really would suggest that we not get too locked into
09:35:46:24 them at this point.
09:35:48:07 Again, all we're asking you to do is approve this MOU,
09:35:52:09 an understanding, and it's clearly stated in that MOU
09:35:56:12 that we're not committing any water or any dollars at
09:35:58:25 this time.
09:35:59:06 All it does it give us a seat at the table to start

09:36:02:25 discussing this.
09:36:03:21 But, again, this is going to be dynamic just as our
09:36:07:10 reclaimed program has been dynamic.
09:36:10:15 Some of you remember there was a regional reclaim where
09:36:12:16 water was going to go to New Tampa and some was going
09:36:16:04 to go for downstream augmentation, some was going to
09:36:19:16 Polk County.
09:36:20:01 That was a plan at one time.
09:36:21:06 That plan has kind of withered, parts of it have
09:36:25:16 wither.
09:36:27:10 Again, we're having to modify our planning and our
09:36:29:15 thinking.
09:36:29:25 Again, this is very preliminary in this process.
09:36:33:13 One of the things that hasn't been mentioned, some of
09:36:35:21 these needs are in 2015, 2018, I mean, some of these
09:36:41:06 are considerably further out in the future at which
09:36:44:13 time our amount of reclaimed may have changed based on
09:36:49:06 growth.
09:36:49:18 Again, there are lots of pieces of this that really
09:36:51:21 need to be considered.
09:36:53:09 And again, we would not -- we certainly want to give
09:36:56:15 you enough time to evaluate any kind of water
09:36:59:04 commitment agreement that we would bring to you.
09:37:01:15 But if we don't think it's in the city's best interest,
09:37:04:24 I guarantee you, we won't be bringing it to the

09:37:08:03 Council.
09:37:08:21 Again, I just want you to know that we're going to be
09:37:11:03 looking at all of those things and dealing with all of
09:37:13:13 those things as well before we come back to the Council
09:37:16:07 on this.
09:37:18:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
09:37:21:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Steve.
09:37:21:24 And Steve, before you go too far, I just want to
09:37:27:06 clarify on the star project so there's no confusion in
09:37:29:10 the public.
09:37:29:25 It's my understanding that star project is the
09:37:32:25 construction, the initial construction -- the
09:37:36:00 construction is done.
09:37:36:28 We are going back now and cleaning out the lines.
09:37:42:18 We've hired consultants and engineers to help us with
09:37:44:21 that because there was some residue in the lines and
09:37:47:24 that's important.
09:37:48:12 You get residue in the lines, it gets out to the little
09:37:51:07 sprinkler heads and the whole system can fail.
09:37:54:00 So we're in the process of doing that now to make it a
09:37:56:27 better system.
09:37:58:18 But anybody who wants to sign up -- and this is why I
09:38:01:06 mentioned this, anybody who wants to sign up, please do
09:38:04:03 sign up.
09:38:04:18 There are cost savings.

09:38:06:09 Now Brad was just telling me by e-mail the other day,
09:38:09:12 there are good cost savings, if you do sign up on a per
09:38:14:10 gallon basis.
09:38:15:06 And I see Brad has his assistant here with him today to
09:38:18:12 assist us.
09:38:20:27 >> The Council dropped the rate for reclaim, we have --
09:38:24:06 since that time, we have seen an increase in usage, an
09:38:26:18 increase in people signing up.
09:38:27:28 So I think that was a very good move on your part to do
09:38:30:12 that.
09:38:30:24 And, yes, we're looking for customers.
09:38:32:24 We're open and available to hook people up in that star
09:38:36:09 one area.
09:38:37:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think Linda and Mary both brought
09:38:39:01 up some good points.
09:38:40:09 I think the point Linda brought up, it probably would
09:38:42:18 help us to see, perhaps, a pie graph of, you know, the
09:38:47:15 average amount of wastewater that we're dumping into
09:38:51:13 the bay right now.
09:38:53:00 We've been doing it for many, many years in terms of
09:38:55:15 MGD, millions of gallons per day.
09:38:57:27 And then what percentage could -- really, a maximum
09:39:02:10 percentage that we would use for star.
09:39:04:03 Hopefully some day we'll sell out and use it all for
09:39:06:24 star.

09:39:07:09 And then in regard to star 2, which I think you have a
09:39:10:03 new name, which are the wholesale projects, what
09:39:14:03 percentage we envision for that, and then you have a
09:39:16:18 leftover percentage.
09:39:17:28 I think that pie graph would be helpful to us.
09:39:20:01 So then we would know realistically what we do have
09:39:22:27 available to a third party if and when this comes to
09:39:25:25 fruition.
09:39:29:09 >> Again, we'll be glad to do that.
09:39:32:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't think we should wait until
09:39:33:19 forever.
09:39:34:04 I think it would be helpful for Council to see that
09:39:37:01 sooner than later.
09:39:38:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, can we get a motion, please?
09:39:40:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move the memorandum of
09:39:42:00 understanding.
09:39:42:22 >> Second.
09:39:43:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Question on the motion, I had questions
09:39:45:18 I delineated for Jan at the beginning, and I haven't
09:39:53:15 heard answers or proposals for those, what I narrowed
09:39:57:24 it down to.
09:39:59:21 >> Four things, actually, that I have, your question,
09:40:01:25 would there be none left for the City of Tampa within
09:40:04:06 the city for its use?
09:40:06:21 And I wanted to reiterate what Steve has said, the

09:40:11:12 numbers that I provided to you are the numbers that the
09:40:15:01 folks that are proposing the project, that is their
09:40:18:18 numbers.
09:40:19:06 This will provide us the ability to sit at the table
09:40:22:28 and say, this is how much water we have available to
09:40:25:15 commit to that.
09:40:26:25 And that would identify what, if any, we want to retain
09:40:30:15 here for our own use, just as Steve said.
09:40:33:07 These numbers are their numbers.
09:40:35:09 These are not our numbers.
09:40:36:24 The environmental benefit and safety of the recharge,
09:40:40:15 that's definitely something not only the project
09:40:43:21 proposers are looking into, but we will look into that,
09:40:46:06 of course, as well and bring you back any reports that
09:40:48:13 we have from the DEP.
09:40:49:28 I know they have been in contact with them to see what
09:40:55:18 environmental benefit or impacts would occur from that.
09:40:58:19 They would have to go through permitting as well to
09:41:03:09 have that allowed to be used.
09:41:05:04 Your third one was, an environmental impact study would
09:41:10:03 be presented to Council on behalf of -- any impacts
09:41:15:15 that the use of TECO and Mosaic's use of the reclaim
09:41:19:00 water before entering into the agreement.
09:41:22:03 I'll have to admit, I'll have to look into what we
09:41:25:19 could bring back to you as far as an explanation what,

09:41:31:21 if any, impacts there would be to the environment of
09:41:35:03 TECO's use, Mosaic's use.
09:41:38:09 At this point, Mosaic is just proposed to be a storage
09:41:41:22 use within their N 5 pit, but we'll bring that back to
09:41:47:18 you as well as far as a report before any agreement is
09:41:50:16 proposed.
09:41:52:24 And then the fourth thing was with regard to making
09:41:55:12 sure you have sufficient time to consider any
09:41:57:06 additional documents that we bring to you, we would
09:42:00:25 definitely do that.
09:42:02:27 And you asked if there was a periodic update that I
09:42:05:28 could do for you.
09:42:08:10 I would say that safely we would be able to come back
09:42:12:18 at least every other month.
09:42:14:22 And if anything that occurred, obviously, prior to
09:42:17:12 that, I would be in front of you to explain that.
09:42:19:22 Would that be a sufficient amount of -- because I see
09:42:22:24 us moving along, but I don't see us moving at break
09:42:27:18 neck speed.
09:42:29:06 >>MARY MULHERN: That sounds reasonable.
09:42:30:12 Thank you.
09:42:31:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There was a motion on the floor moved
09:42:32:12 by councilman Dingfelder, seconded by councilman
09:42:35:18 Charlie Miranda.
09:42:36:18 All in favor aye.

09:42:38:01 So moved and ordered.
09:42:39:06 Council, let me bring a couple of things to our
09:42:42:03 attention.
09:42:43:24 I want to try to stick to the time frame as much as
09:42:46:06 possible.
09:42:47:01 We have already gone over 15 minutes.
09:42:48:24 So I would caution you to be very succinct in your
09:42:52:03 questions and any discussion that we have.
09:42:54:09 Secondly, for each presenter, allow the presenter to
09:42:58:19 present their documents and power points before asking
09:43:01:24 any questions, write any questions down so that we can
09:43:05:00 move through their presentation without them being
09:43:07:12 interrupted.
09:43:09:06 I would appreciate that.
09:43:10:03 Okay?
09:43:10:10 Lastly, and then Council need to speak to this.
09:43:17:28 There's a request by staff that we move item number 4
09:43:21:21 next.
09:43:22:03 My concern is that it's on there for a 10:30 time
09:43:25:15 frame.
09:43:26:03 Can we do that?
09:43:30:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, I believe you can.
09:43:31:24 It's set for a workshop, even though set for a time
09:43:34:07 certain, it's not a noticed public hearing.
09:43:37:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

09:43:37:24 I just want to make sure we can do that without
09:43:40:07 violating any notice provision.
09:43:43:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, an agenda is always subject to
09:43:45:24 amendment at the time of a meeting, as long as it's not
09:43:48:09 a legally required set time.
09:43:50:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:43:50:27 Then we will take up item number 4 next.
09:43:53:15 That's the tree canopy, it is requested by staff that
09:44:00:04 we move that up.
09:44:02:13 >>MARY MULHERN: I thought this workshop, based on what
09:44:06:27 we voted on last week, were open to public comment, and
09:44:10:00 it says on the agenda that there would be public
09:44:12:16 comment after item one, three minutes per speaker up to
09:44:17:28 a total of 30 minutes.
09:44:19:09 So I just want to make sure they have the opportunity.
09:44:22:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That was done in error, because what we
09:44:24:00 voted -- the motion that was passed would allow you
09:44:26:12 time to ask the staff -- get all your questions
09:44:30:00 answered.
09:44:30:24 Put it in the other item slot since we have that now
09:44:37:13 open.
09:44:38:06 But there was not a vote to have a workshop.
09:44:41:15 The rest of them are workshops.
09:44:44:18 But number one was just a regular agenda item continued
09:44:48:15 to allow you to get your questions answered.

09:44:52:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It was a misprint by the clerk.
09:44:54:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Mr. Shelby, it looks like it was
09:44:57:04 noticed as a public hearing.
09:44:58:15 For all the items.
09:45:01:04 But for item one included.
09:45:03:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: This is something ultimately that I
09:45:05:27 think warrants a discussion, Council.
09:45:07:22 There are certain things that are set for public
09:45:09:07 hearing.
09:45:10:00 And a public hearing is a term required by Florida
09:45:12:15 statutes.
09:45:13:12 This is for public comment.
09:45:15:16 And the thing is, if Council wishes to stick to the
09:45:18:15 agenda then, there are times that Council has been
09:45:20:25 setting everything 15 minutes apart because not knowing
09:45:24:07 exactly how much time it wishes to spend on each item.
09:45:27:18 If you wish to take it in certain order and allow
09:45:30:27 certain set of time --
09:45:33:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's not the question.
09:45:34:00 The question that she's raising, it was advertised that
09:45:37:12 after item one there would be allowed 30 minutes for
09:45:40:18 public comments.
09:45:41:21 And my point was, this is not a workshop.
09:45:44:12 That item is not a workshop.
09:45:46:06 The motion that was voted was voted that she would be

09:45:49:21 allowed to get her question answered.
09:45:52:19 Speaking only on the memorandum of understanding.
09:45:54:27 That was not a workshop item.
09:45:58:04 >>DAVID SMITH: David Smith, City Attorney, it was my
09:46:00:00 understanding, although I wasn't here last Thursday,
09:46:02:10 what you're indicating is correct.
09:46:03:24 The first item only was a continuance from a regular
09:46:08:15 Council meeting for delaying the vote.
09:46:10:25 It was set, unfortunately, within the agenda and the
09:46:13:18 language of the agenda, as though it was one of the
09:46:15:28 workshops open to public discussion.
09:46:18:03 But I think councilwoman Mulhern is correct with regard
09:46:21:18 to the rest of the items.
09:46:23:15 That's my only slight concern with regard to moving the
09:46:27:18 10:30 up because that has been noticed for public
09:46:30:06 discussion.
09:46:30:16 The first issue is the one you talked about and you're
09:46:33:12 correct.
09:46:35:15 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't feel like you answered my
09:46:37:18 question about the fact it was noticed but we don't
09:46:39:15 have to do it because it was a mistake, don't we still
09:46:41:22 have to allow public comment?
09:46:44:01 >>DAVID SMITH: It's an interesting question.
09:46:46:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, for the sake of resolving the
09:46:48:03 issue fairly, if there's anybody here who wishes to

09:46:50:10 speak, perhaps in order to cure this, I'm sure it will
09:46:52:25 not happen again, this time to allow that.
09:46:55:13 If that's Council's pleasure.
09:46:59:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, anyone here want to address item
09:47:01:18 number 1?
09:47:02:06 You have three minutes.
09:47:11:24 State your name and address for the record.
09:47:14:04 >> Dr. Rich brown.
09:47:15:18 1214 park circle, Tampa, representing friends of the
09:47:20:00 river.
09:47:20:24 Since it's so early in the MOU process, I will send my
09:47:24:21 comments to each of you by e-mail and not take up more
09:47:28:09 time here.
09:47:28:24 It is an issue that's being watched very carefully
09:47:33:22 across the entire area by the environmental
09:47:35:21 organizations.
09:47:36:12 But I'll contact each of you by e-mail.
09:47:40:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:47:40:19 Anyone else from the public?
09:47:43:19 Thank you very much.
09:47:46:21 We'll now take up item number 4.
09:47:48:18 The canopy -- tree canopy analysis.
09:47:56:13 >> Good morning, City Council.
09:47:57:27 Karen Palus, parks and recreation director.
09:48:00:21 It's our pleasure to present to you from our

09:48:03:06 consultants, our City of Tampa urban ecological
09:48:05:15 analysis.

09:48:05:25 It has gone beyond traditional tree canopy analysis and
09:48:10:03 it's very exciting because we are the first city in the
09:48:12:13 southeast to have this type of study done.
09:48:14:16 So I think you'll be very excited with the information.
09:48:17:07 It goes beyond our urban forest and looks at all of the
09:48:21:04 social and economic aspects of our urban forest here in
09:48:24:24 the City of Tampa.
09:48:26:06 Without further ado, I do want to share with you, this
09:48:29:16 has been a little over a year-and-a-half process to go
09:48:32:06 through from the scope of work that started with Steve
09:48:35:15 Graham when he was here with us to the leadership under
09:48:38:03 Kathy beck and Greg Howell who have brought it into a
09:48:41:06 closure with our wonderful consultants from University
09:48:43:00 of Florida and USF.
09:48:46:04 We've had the pleasure to work with them.
09:48:48:21 We have shared this information you're going to see
09:48:51:01 today with our administrative staff.
09:48:52:19 We're now sharing it with you.
09:48:54:10 And then we have an opportunity to partner with them on
09:48:58:10 June 19th.
09:48:59:16 We're going to have a symposium.
09:49:02:06 I'll make sure I get the name correct.
09:49:03:24 The Mayor's symposium on community trees and the urban

09:49:08:06 forest.
09:49:08:16 What it will be is an opportunity for all of our
09:49:10:24 organizations, all our stakeholders, anyone who has a
09:49:14:03 public interest in our community trees and in our urban
09:49:16:15 forest to come together and talk about the study in
09:49:19:01 more detail and an opportunity to share ideas and come
09:49:22:21 up with what we want to see this area's urban forest to
09:49:27:03 be.
09:49:27:15 With that, I'll introduce Rob Northrop, who is the
09:49:31:04 urban forester, and he'll lead off this morning's
09:49:32:06 presentation, and if they'll queue up the Powerpoint
09:49:35:10 for him. He is with the University of Florida
09:49:39:27 Hillsborough County extension office.
09:49:43:09 >> Good morning.
09:49:44:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Welcome.
09:49:45:09 >> Do I know -- we're waiting for technology to catch
09:49:50:28 up.
09:49:51:06 My name is Robert Northrop.
09:49:59:13 I am an urban and community forestry specialist with
09:50:02:04 the University of Florida, and I work with Hillsborough
09:50:06:03 County extension service.
09:50:07:12 About a year and a half ago, Steve Graham, who was then
09:50:11:12 the natural resources superintendent for the City of
09:50:13:18 Tampa called me up and told me that he was tasked with
09:50:19:13 a project.

09:50:20:22 And the project was to revisit an analysis of the
09:50:26:18 distribution, the canopy of the urban forest in the
09:50:29:13 City of Tampa.
09:50:30:09 And what that means is, if you look down at the canopy,
09:50:34:03 the canopy of the trees, trying to understand where
09:50:37:06 those trees are and how much of the city's landscape is
09:50:39:22 covered up.
09:50:40:19 Steve mentioned that there were several things that
09:50:44:15 were important that needed to be addressed.
09:50:48:00 Number one, he wanted to be able to come back to you
09:50:51:21 and to discuss with you the change that had occurred
09:50:55:03 since 1996 when the first one had taken place.
09:50:58:21 He also wanted to take a more rigorous look at the
09:51:03:27 ecology of the urban forest, that is do an ecological
09:51:08:12 assessment of the forest to look at the forest's
09:51:11:21 health, that is the vigor, the condition of the forest,
09:51:15:00 and to come up with some ecological and economic
09:51:21:24 estimates of the value of the forest.
09:51:24:12 These are the things that Steve mentioned.
09:51:32:21 He called me because, in fact, he was part of a
09:51:35:10 collaboration of researchers and managers from the
09:51:40:03 federal government, U.S. Forest Service, the State of
09:51:42:24 Florida, Division of Forestry, several of the
09:51:47:10 universities, research universities in Florida, county
09:51:51:01 municipal governments who were interested in developing

09:51:54:16 a scientific framework for the sustainability
09:51:58:00 management of the forest in the Tampa Bay watershed.
09:52:01:27 We called it simply in a long way the Tampa Bay
09:52:04:15 watershed forest working group.
09:52:07:00 He understood that this group in this collaborative
09:52:11:01 forum would perhaps be a good place to start to put
09:52:13:22 together a team of people who understood the
09:52:18:13 state-of-the-art science investigation to distribution
09:52:22:04 and ecological health and contribution to citizen
09:52:26:21 welfare.
09:52:27:09 That's what we did.
09:52:28:27 What we got together was Shawn Landry from the
09:52:34:09 University of South Florida, who actually conducted the
09:52:37:00 1996 investigation.
09:52:40:00 When we got Dr. Michael Andrew, Dr. Michael Andrew is a
09:52:44:03 professor of forestry with the University of Florida,

09:52:48:03 and we began as a small team to piece together the
09:52:52:19 methodology for the investigation that Steve and you
09:52:58:03 were interested in, and then we were able to tap into
09:53:00:07 this big network of people that we had to help us
09:53:02:19 better understand how to adjust the models we used, how
09:53:05:15 to adjust the methodology, and how to bring us to you
09:53:09:03 today.
09:53:09:13 And we're delighted to be here with you today after
09:53:14:15 about a year-and-a-half's worth of work.

09:53:16:18 With that, I'll let Shawn Landry take over and discuss
09:53:20:07 his part in the project.
09:53:24:16 >> I appreciate you taking the time today for us to
09:53:27:24 present this.
09:53:29:04 I'll apologize in advance.
09:53:30:12 My daughter has shared her day care cold with me.
09:53:36:09 I'm a little under the weather, so hopefully this won't
09:53:39:06 sound as muddled as my brain is feeling right now.
09:53:42:09 Let's see, the technology again, if we could bring up
09:53:45:15 the slide.
09:53:46:04 My part in the study primarily was in taking that
09:53:50:24 top-down look at the forest and saying where is it and
09:53:53:21 how much is there and then focusing on, well, how has
09:53:57:13 it changed since 1996?
09:54:01:07 And so, the first part of that was looking at the
09:54:04:04 change.
09:54:04:19 What we did with this study was we used the same
09:54:07:28 methods as 1996 for consistency sake.
09:54:12:15 A lot has changed in the last decade, and there are
09:54:15:06 much better methods, which we also integrated, but for
09:54:19:06 the sake of consistency so that we can see how has the
09:54:23:27 forest changed over time, we used the same methods.
09:54:26:15 What it does was essentially use satellite imagery to
09:54:30:06 say, is this area canopy or is it not canopy.
09:54:34:24 So it's a relatively crude kind of procedure, but well

09:54:39:18 accepted and certainly well accepted ten years ago.
09:54:42:13 And so let's move on to exactly what did we find.
09:54:49:21 When we look at the 1975 to -- or 2006 tree cover and
09:54:55:12 how it has changed, what you see there is over the last
09:54:59:12 ten years, we actually increased tree cover in the City
09:55:03:28 of Tampa.
09:55:04:09 So we went from 19% in 1996 to 22% in 2006.
09:55:13:21 What this essentially indicates is it's a return to
09:55:17:15 1970's tree cover in the City of Tampa.
09:55:21:21 So that's some good news.
09:55:23:12 What it also shows is that there are some areas that
09:55:28:15 lost tree cover, and there are some that gained tree
09:55:30:28 cover.
09:55:31:09 And now, unfortunately, I don't have a crystal ball, so
09:55:35:03 I can't exactly say why certain areas changed and why
09:55:39:15 others did not.
09:55:40:21 But what we can do, as you move forward to use this
09:55:45:15 information, you can look at some of those specific
09:55:49:15 questions of why things may have changed.
09:55:52:06 So now moving forward, again, the technology has
09:55:58:04 changed a lot, and our research methods have changed.
09:56:01:06 What we wanted to do was create a new baseline for
09:56:05:06 looking at the distribution of urban forest, trees, and
09:56:10:25 vegetation throughout the City of Tampa.
09:56:14:00 And so we used newer methods, basically newer satellite

09:56:18:21 imagery.
09:56:19:24 The difference being, it's 900 times higher resolution
09:56:26:04 for the imagery we used in 2006 compared to what was
09:56:30:07 available to us ten years ago.
09:56:32:21 So what that allows us to do is actually use this
09:56:35:22 information to look at individual parcels throughout
09:56:39:07 the City of Tampa and say how has that -- what's the
09:56:43:28 tree cover and vegetation cover on those parcels, how
09:56:47:25 does that differ by land use?
09:56:52:28 What areas of the city might we target for more
09:56:55:24 planting?
09:56:57:03 What areas might we consider for more maintenance,
09:56:59:16 et cetera.
09:56:59:28 The methods we use, essentially have 95% accuracy based
09:57:08:04 on some verification, testing.
09:57:10:16 We could identify individual trees in the city, which
09:57:14:15 is -- shows you the resolution that we're dealing with.
09:57:17:07 It's pretty high resolution imagery.
09:57:19:13 And it's really part of that new benchmark.
09:57:22:10 So now you can use this information to move forward.
09:57:28:00 Hopefully in five to ten years when we actually look at
09:57:30:06 change, we can say this parcel changed this much.
09:57:33:15 Whereas now all we can say is this area changed this
09:57:36:18 much.
09:57:37:00 So I'm sure you'd like to see what we found.

09:57:40:15 And here it is.
09:57:42:24 This analysis looked not only at tree cover, but we
09:57:47:22 actually distinguished trees from other vegetation like
09:57:52:06 grass and lawns and golf courses, and also, we looked
09:57:56:24 at impervious surface and sand and soil and water.
09:58:00:10 And what we found was there is 29% of the City of Tampa
09:58:08:03 is composed of tree cover, an additional 29% is other
09:58:14:15 vegetation such as grass and lawns, so that's 58% total
09:58:18:24 vegetation in the City of Tampa.
09:58:20:12 What you see, though, that distribution of trees and
09:58:25:06 vegetation, it's not evenly distributed.
09:58:27:21 The image on your left, just as a map of tree cover,
09:58:33:28 throughout the City of Tampa, and we also included the
09:58:37:16 watersheds surrounding the city that are impacted by
09:58:40:25 some of the DEP regulations for stormwater regulations,
09:58:45:06 and what you see is that distribution is unevenly
09:58:48:04 distributed.
09:58:48:19 So areas in North Tampa have some more, higher amounts
09:58:53:13 of tree cover which you might expect because some of
09:58:56:04 those areas are preserved, and what this allows us to
09:58:59:21 do now is move forward and look at some of those
09:59:02:15 specific areas, and we can answer questions just as
09:59:06:06 which right-of-way areas might we plant more street
09:59:09:25 trees, which neighborhoods might need more trees, are
09:59:15:24 there differences between residential and commercial

09:59:19:04 trees?
09:59:19:15 Or tree cover in these areas.
09:59:23:28 So moving forward, I summarized the data a couple of
09:59:29:06 different ways.
09:59:29:27 One was just giving a real broad comparison between
09:59:33:19 tree cover in the city versus tree cover outside the
09:59:38:27 city in those surrounding watershed areas.
09:59:41:00 Again, just to put this in perspective a little bit.
09:59:43:18 What you see, there's 10% lower overall tree cover in
09:59:48:24 the city compared to that surrounding area.
09:59:52:27 There's slightly lower tree cover in the urban and
09:59:56:28 built land uses, and lower tree cover in the medium
10:00:02:18 residential land uses.
10:00:05:00 However, on the other side, you see that there's
10:00:08:21 actually similar tree cover on industrial lands inside
10:00:12:06 and outside the city and actually higher tree cover on
10:00:14:27 the high density residential.
10:00:16:25 And actually, high density residential in the City of
10:00:19:09 Tampa makes up a larger portion of the city than the
10:00:23:15 medium density does.
10:00:24:21 So that's pretty good news when you compare that with
10:00:28:24 outside the city.
10:00:29:13 Again, this is just a relatively crude way of putting
10:00:32:07 it in perspective.
10:00:33:06 The other way of looking at this was just a summary by

10:00:39:06 neighborhood.
10:00:40:00 As part of the report, this is broken down by
10:00:43:27 neighborhoods, so the public can take this with them
10:00:46:15 and compare their neighborhoods.
10:00:48:16 And what you find is just a quick way of summarizing it
10:00:52:00 is that the top five residential tree cover in the city
10:00:59:10 are in those neighborhoods such as Tampa Palms,
10:01:01:15 hunter's green, river bend, et cetera.
10:01:04:03 And they are sort of highlighted in yellow on that map
10:01:07:12 on your left-hand side, just so you can see where those
10:01:10:03 areas are located.
10:01:11:13 And then the lowest five for residential tree cover are
10:01:16:12 in historic Ybor, the Tampa downtown partnership, the
10:01:20:07 marina club, Channel District, et cetera.
10:01:23:06 These neighborhoods are actually the neighborhood
10:01:27:12 association defined neighborhood.
10:01:28:15 I should have mentioned that.
10:01:30:00 So that's how these are defined.
10:01:32:09 So you can see that -- what you do find, though, is
10:01:35:12 that what this is summarizing is residential tree
10:01:38:28 cover.
10:01:39:06 The tree cover on residential properties only.
10:01:42:16 If you looked at it from what's on commercial
10:01:46:00 properties or other land uses, it would be a different
10:01:50:00 picture.

10:01:50:15 And that's the power of this information is we can
10:01:53:07 actually look at different land uses, different
10:01:55:13 configuration, and start to plan out what we want that
10:01:58:24 to look like in the future.
10:02:00:00 So before I turn this over to Michael Andrew, I wanted
10:02:10:27 to emphasize tree canopy is only part of the story.
10:02:13:19 We're looking down from above saying where is the tree
10:02:15:27 cover?
10:02:16:07 How much is there?
10:02:17:03 But really -- and we can see sort of the heterogeneity
10:02:21:15 or unevenness in distribution and start to ask those
10:02:25:10 questions about do we need to target certain areas for
10:02:27:28 planting or do we want to target certain areas?
10:02:30:06 But what it really doesn't tell us is what's the
10:02:33:04 ecological value of some of these areas?
10:02:35:13 That doesn't tell us that.
10:02:39:21 Moving forward, this information we hope will be
10:02:42:01 integrated into the GIS systems, the geographic
10:02:46:15 information systems of the city and departments can use
10:02:49:04 it as part of their planning to put a new reclaimed
10:02:53:21 water pipe, for example, in an area, see what kind of
10:02:57:12 tree cover is in that area, an indicator of how much of
10:03:01:07 a problem they are going to have in burrowing under
10:03:04:22 those trees.
10:03:05:18 Just as an example.

10:03:06:28 And you can start using it for other information as
10:03:09:12 well.
10:03:09:27 So with that, let me turn it over to Michael Andrew who
10:03:14:27 has looked at the ecological assessment of the tree
10:03:18:27 cover.
10:03:23:03 >> Thank you all very much.
10:03:24:15 My name is Dr. Michael Andrew.
10:03:27:00 I'm an assistant professor with the University of
10:03:29:21 Florida, school of forest resources and conservation
10:03:32:15 located at the Gulf Coast research and education center
10:03:36:00 in Plant City.
10:03:36:27 Before I get started, I want to acknowledge my
10:03:41:00 colleague that worked on this, Ms. Melissa Freedman,
10:03:43:18 who is also in this audience, and she was part of this
10:03:46:24 work and this project as well.
10:03:51:01 So, if we can have the slides.
10:03:55:03 We have this nice study that was completed and really
10:04:00:15 gave us a beginning to understand how the forest has
10:04:04:03 changed over the last decade or so.
10:04:06:03 And we wanted to take this to the next level and begin
10:04:09:19 to look at the forest in terms of its structure, its
10:04:14:28 composition, and its functionality.
10:04:17:04 And that's really what we think is going to bring some
10:04:20:00 new value to you, the city managers and Council members
10:04:26:01 as you begin to think about how do we manage this urban

10:04:29:06 forest, and what is it doing for us, and what services
10:04:32:04 does it provide.
10:04:32:27 And so we wanted to try to do that.
10:04:35:21 And so to do this, we had to begin and look at what is
10:04:40:00 being done in the scientific world, what other kind of
10:04:44:10 research has been done in this arena?
10:04:46:15 And we came upon the UFORE model, which was developed
10:04:53:15 by Dr. Nowak of the U.S. Forest Service up in the
10:04:56:21 northeast research station.
10:04:58:12 And he has developed the UFORE model.
10:04:58:12 It's the Urban Forest Effect Model.
10:05:01:12 It does exactly the kind of work and calculates many of
10:05:04:00 the values that we wanted to provide to you.
10:05:06:00 And this model has been peer reviewed in the literature
10:05:11:09 and in the scientific world.
10:05:13:15 It has been utilized throughout the U.S., in many parts
10:05:17:24 of the U.S., rather, and in other parts of the world to
10:05:20:09 assess and evaluate the ecological value of urban
10:05:24:03 forests.
10:05:24:18 And so this is one of the most robust models available
10:05:29:10 today.
10:05:29:21 And that's what we wanted to utilize for this project
10:05:32:16 as well.
10:05:32:28 And so we did.
10:05:34:06 One of the things that's interesting, though, because

10:05:38:00 we are where we are located, Tampa is in a subtropical
10:05:41:00 part of the world.
10:05:41:25 This model didn't -- wasn't fully designed to account
10:05:45:15 for some of the trees that we have here, such as palms.
10:05:48:06 And so we had to work directly with the model
10:05:52:15 developers to accommodate palms into this model.
10:05:56:09 And so that's really -- they were excited about it,
10:05:59:12 because this stretched and pushed their model into a
10:06:02:16 new arena and allowed them to explore some new
10:06:06:03 scientific things, and we were excited about it because
10:06:08:06 that puts Tampa sort of as one of these leaders in
10:06:11:15 pushing science along.
10:06:13:27 So what did we do?
10:06:20:03 Well, to complete this work, what you're seeing here is
10:06:22:10 a graph of the City of Tampa.
10:06:23:21 That's the area in yellow.
10:06:25:27 And then you're also seeing an outline of the
10:06:29:16 surrounding subbasin watersheds.
10:06:31:22 That's the area in red.
10:06:34:15 We focused this study and the results I'll be
10:06:37:03 presenting to you are on the work that we did within
10:06:39:18 the city boundaries of Tampa.
10:06:41:00 We randomly selected about 201 plots throughout the
10:06:47:04 city.
10:06:47:15 Okay?

10:06:47:22 And why did we do this?
10:06:49:25 We did this so that we could get an unbiased picture of
10:06:53:12 the urban forest.
10:06:54:18 And what does this mean to have an unbiased picture?
10:06:58:00 Well, this means that points were not just laid out.
10:07:00:21 We laid out a grid, and then we randomly selected
10:07:03:24 within each one of those grid points locations.
10:07:07:24 And these locations could fall in people's backyards,
10:07:11:25 they could fall on the military base.
10:07:13:21 They could fall next to the airport and along highways.
10:07:16:12 And out on coastal areas.
10:07:18:12 I mean, this gave us a view of Tampa that perhaps a lot
10:07:21:28 of us don't see when we think about the urban forest,
10:07:24:15 because we cross the entire city and got a snapshot of
10:07:29:07 it this way.
10:07:30:03 These plots that we located are permanent plots, which
10:07:36:00 will allow us to revisit these plots over time.
10:07:38:21 We talked about and Shawn has talked about establishing
10:07:41:12 a benchmark so that we can compare change over time.
10:07:44:21 And these plots are located in such a manner that we
10:07:47:01 can go back and revisit them and remeasure them and see
10:07:49:27 how the urban forest is changing over time.
10:07:53:12 What did we do on each of the plots?
10:08:00:27 Each of the plots was approximately -- was exactly
10:08:02:21 one-tenth acre in size.

10:08:04:10 And we measured a variety of features of the forest.
10:08:08:04 We measured ground cover, just as Shawn did, and we
10:08:12:04 were able to establish how much of the area was
10:08:16:03 impervious surfaces and how much of it was in a variety
10:08:19:09 of other permeable surfaces such as maintained lawns.
10:08:23:00 33% of the area was impervious surface.
10:08:27:00 That's very similar to the number that Shawn's study
10:08:30:04 came up with.
10:08:30:27 Another interesting note was 30% of the area of those
10:08:35:16 ground surface was in maintained lawns.
10:08:37:09 That's certainly a number that might be interesting to
10:08:39:27 policymakers here in the city when they begin to think
10:08:42:12 about water issues and whatnot, and how that might
10:08:45:24 impact future policies.
10:08:48:03 In addition to this, we looked at shrub cover.
10:08:52:24 And this is a cover estimate that many people sort of
10:08:56:16 ignore when they think about the urban forest.
10:08:58:09 They may think about ground cover, they may think about
10:09:01:00 the trees, but the shrubs actually do provide a lot of
10:09:04:03 value to the urban forest.
10:09:05:25 So we measured this and we can establish how much there
10:09:10:01 is, what type of species it's composed of, and what are
10:09:14:13 some of the values of it.
10:09:15:10 And it does provide values to us, the citizens.
10:09:18:21 Why is this interesting information?

10:09:23:10 It's interesting because it gives us a
10:09:25:22 three-dimensional view of the forest, and that's where
10:09:29:22 you and I experience the forest.
10:09:31:25 We live in that forest at the ground level.
10:09:33:25 And so we were able to describe quantitatively the
10:09:37:28 forest, the ground cover, the shrub layer and that
10:09:41:28 overstoried tree layer.
10:09:44:28 So based on that, what did we find?
10:09:48:15 Well, you heard now about Shawn's study, and he had --
10:09:55:09 used some cutting-edge technology to assess the canopy
10:09:59:21 cover and he arrived at a number of 29%, and we also --
10:10:06:03 this is one area that we had overlapping measures.
10:10:08:21 We also were able to establish canopy cover within the
10:10:12:09 city.
10:10:12:19 And our results indicated that the canopy cover was
10:10:16:03 28.1%.
10:10:17:06 Statistically, that is insignificant.
10:10:21:09 These are the same.
10:10:22:06 These numbers are essentially the same.
10:10:23:19 They are well within each other's margins of error, and
10:10:26:19 so I think this goes to validate the robustness of
10:10:31:10 these two very independent methods and studies and
10:10:35:06 demonstrates that the work we have both done has a lot
10:10:39:15 of validity throughout.
10:10:40:28 So some more results.

10:10:46:28 First thing, how many trees do we have out here?
10:10:49:19 A big question.
10:10:50:15 Nobody could really even begin to fathom or answer
10:10:53:24 realistically.
10:10:54:13 We can now give you an estimate.
10:10:56:09 You have somewhere around 7.8 million trees within the
10:10:59:25 City of Tampa.
10:11:00:06 That's a lot of trees.
10:11:02:12 How did we -- just so we're clear, how did we define a
10:11:06:00 tree or how did the model require us to define a tree?
10:11:08:25 The tree is any woody stem greater than one-inch
10:11:12:15 diameter at 4.5 feet or diameter at breast height.
10:11:16:18 So you have 7.8 million trees out there.
10:11:19:01 We can tell you not only that, but we can tell you what
10:11:22:21 sort of species distribution you have out there.
10:11:26:19 That's interesting.
10:11:28:06 When you look at the species distribution, we have
10:11:30:12 numbers that nobody expected.
10:11:31:24 And it's very interested.
10:11:33:22 Again, number one most common species in terms of the
10:11:36:10 stems out there is red mangrove.
10:11:38:21 42% of the forest is composed of red mangrove.
10:11:43:09 That's something that we didn't even expect to see, but
10:11:49:06 that goes to show you the value of getting an unbiased
10:11:52:10 estimate and randomly locating those plots across the

10:11:55:15 city.
10:11:55:25 Secondly, you see there is that the number two most
10:11:58:10 common species, and this is not great news, is
10:12:01:13 Brazilian pepper.
10:12:02:21 And for those of you that may not be aware, Brazilian
10:12:06:04 pepper is a nonnative species, highly invasive species
10:12:10:03 which means it alters and disturbs the functioning of
10:12:12:18 the ecosystems.
10:12:13:18 And that's ecosystems whether you're talking about in
10:12:16:00 rural areas or in urban ecosystems.
10:12:18:03 And so this is a real problematic species, the state is
10:12:21:15 spending millions and millions of dollars to try to
10:12:25:09 control the species, and we certainly here in the City
10:12:29:04 of Tampa have something to be concerned about.
10:12:32:00 And you can see in that graph some of the remaining
10:12:35:16 species, black mangrove, cabbage palm, live oak,
10:12:40:06 et cetera.
10:12:40:18 Finally, we can establish this is interesting and,
10:12:43:27 yeah, I can say thank you for telling me about what
10:12:46:21 species we have out there, but we also wanted to be
10:12:49:15 able to tell you, what is the value of that forest?
10:12:52:21 So we can calculate the compensatory value of the urban
10:12:57:06 forest of the City of Tampa is $1.4 billion.
10:13:00:12 What does that mean to you?
10:13:01:25 That means that's the replacement value.

10:13:04:15 Were this forest to be wiped out for some reason,
10:13:08:06 following a hurricane or whatnot, you now have a way to
10:13:10:28 estimate some of the value of the forest to replace it.
10:13:14:21 And that's important to you, again, when you think
10:13:16:21 about F.E.M.A. estimates following hurricanes and
10:13:19:06 whatnot.
10:13:20:00 You now have a good figure to begin to work from.
10:13:23:00 So we presented these results to the Mayor's executive
10:13:30:21 staff and to the parks and recreation department.
10:13:33:09 Everybody was interested in seeing the forest and this
10:13:38:21 large component of mangroves, but also that sort of
10:13:42:00 throws people off because we are a unique city.
10:13:44:15 We are a coastal city, and we have this large component
10:13:47:12 of coastal forest that other cities don't.
10:13:49:18 To sort of put this in maybe relative perspective to
10:13:53:24 other cities in Florida and throughout the country, we
10:13:55:28 wanted to look solely at the inland forest and remove
10:14:00:03 the mangroves from this graph.
10:14:02:15 So here you can see when we take mangroves out, the
10:14:05:07 number of species -- number of trees out there is now
10:14:08:21 down to 3.9 million trees.
10:14:12:00 Still a lot of trees, and the species shift changes
10:14:18:00 from mangroves -- red mangrove being number one to now
10:14:21:24 Brazilian pepper is your most dominant species out
10:14:25:15 there.

10:14:25:25 Wow, something we didn't expect.
10:14:27:13 Now we see cabbage palm, live oak, the oaks beginning
10:14:31:21 to shift up in their dominance of the forest, and
10:14:34:09 that's more of what we anticipated seeing.
10:14:36:27 Again, that's the value of getting this unbiased
10:14:39:07 estimate out there.
10:14:40:00 But these are the inland forest species composition.
10:14:43:09 So we can tell you about the forest, what it's made up
10:14:54:01 of and it's value when we remove mangroves not highly
10:14:57:15 reduced now 1.2 billion.
10:14:59:21 We can also tell you about the forest size classes.
10:15:03:06 How is it distributed in terms of size?
10:15:05:06 And certainly, that's important in many of the policies
10:15:08:21 that you all have for grand trees and when trees become
10:15:14:00 something that are under your domain of control or
10:15:18:21 management.
10:15:18:28 So here's a look at the forest and how it's distributed
10:15:22:15 in terms of size.
10:15:23:25 This is the inland forest so you are clear.
10:15:26:22 This is minus the mangroves.
10:15:28:04 And what you can see here is -- what effectively looks
10:15:34:00 like a reverse J-shaped curve.
10:15:36:06 Okay?
10:15:36:18 A lot of small trees in that one- to three-inch
10:15:40:15 diameter class, three- to six-inch diameter class and

10:15:46:03 very few trees out there on the right-hand side of that
10:15:46:13 graph, the larger diameter trees.
10:15:49:24 A lot of people look at this, wow, this is great.
10:15:53:09 A lot of young trees planted and growing and one day
10:15:55:13 they'll be big trees.
10:15:56:21 You've got to keep in mind, what's our number one
10:15:59:01 species out there?
10:16:01:03 It's Brazilian pepper.
10:16:03:01 That tree does not grow to be a big, large-diameter
10:16:06:15 tree.
10:16:06:22 It stays very small.
10:16:08:07 In fact, 63% of the tree -- of all trees in this graph
10:16:12:06 are less than six-inch diameter, but 20% of those
10:16:15:27 one- to three-inch trees are Brazilian pepper.
10:16:20:06 This does not totally reflect that you've got a forest
10:16:23:03 that as it ages, these diameter classes will increase
10:16:26:22 over time.
10:16:27:12 You've got to make sure you keep in mind what that
10:16:30:10 species distribution is out there.
10:16:31:21 Again, that's one of the neat things about the study is
10:16:33:28 we can tell you that, help you interpret this.
10:16:37:00 On the far end of the graph, some of the good news or
10:16:40:27 some of the interesting news is that those larger
10:16:43:18 diameter trees, trees over 36 inches, those are
10:16:46:16 primarily composed of live oaks.

10:16:48:12 Why is that good?
10:16:49:19 Well, live oaks tend to be larger -- or longer lived
10:16:54:03 trees and therefore -- you know, that's what you want
10:16:56:21 to foster and if we're going to maintain those across
10:17:00:09 the landscape.
10:17:01:06 Tree health.
10:17:06:04 This assessment allowed us to calculate overall tree
10:17:10:01 health within the City of Tampa and certainly a
10:17:12:18 healthy, vigorous growing forest has many benefits, as
10:17:15:28 I'll further demonstrate.
10:17:17:18 But overall, the City of Tampa, if you look on the far
10:17:20:16 right-hand side of that graph, overall, the majority of
10:17:23:07 the trees are in either excellent or healthy good
10:17:26:27 condition.
10:17:27:07 And so that's good news.
10:17:29:03 Tampa is doing a very good job with their urban forest.
10:17:31:28 If we break it out by land use and sort of want to look
10:17:36:00 at how are they doing by land use, I think I want to
10:17:39:09 point out in particular how the lands that are under
10:17:42:24 public management are doing.
10:17:44:04 And look here, you can see the ones with circles around
10:17:47:24 them, they have a high percentage of healthy trees.
10:17:50:15 That goes to demonstrate the value of management of
10:17:55:00 trees.
10:17:55:10 That's where the city and other areas are managing

10:17:59:13 trees more intensively and certainly the results are
10:18:03:06 reflected here in this graph that you have a higher
10:18:05:19 percentage of healthy trees overall.
10:18:07:25 In those land uses.
10:18:11:19 Why is this important?
10:18:12:27 Because a healthy forest is a resilient forest, meaning
10:18:16:06 it can withstand disturbances such as hurricanes,
10:18:20:04 insect outbreaks or whatnot more readily.
10:18:22:18 And that's what we want to have is a healthy, vigorous,
10:18:25:21 resilient urban forest.
10:18:27:06 What are some of these values?
10:18:33:22 This is good news about the City of Tampa and what our
10:18:35:27 forest looks like, but what is it doing for us?
10:18:38:03 You know, that's sort of the question we asked, what
10:18:40:06 have you done for me lately?
10:18:42:03 What is this part of the infrastructure doing for us?
10:18:45:00 In 2007, this model that we used is very robust in
10:18:48:25 looking at atmospheric values for the forest.
10:18:54:27 And what it allows us to do is look -- in this
10:18:58:00 particular case, five pollutants, air pollutants,
10:19:02:24 carbon monoxide, nitrous dioxide, ozone, particulate
10:19:07:03 matter in the air, less than ten microns and sulfur
10:19:10:09 dioxide.
10:19:11:03 Those are five particularly nasty pollutants in
10:19:15:03 atmospheric situations that we don't want to see a lot

10:19:18:06 of.
10:19:18:12 The forests actually help clean the area.
10:19:25:00 They help to remove these pollutants from the air.
10:19:27:12 And we were able to calculate how much of that was
10:19:28:21 removed.
10:19:28:28 Over 1,360 tons were removed, of these pollutants were
10:19:33:27 removed.
10:19:34:16 So what is the value of that to the city?
10:19:39:21 It's about $6.3 million in one year alone.
10:19:42:21 Okay?
10:19:43:01 And that model is based off atmospheric studies that
10:19:47:00 actually counts for rain days and whatnot.
10:19:49:18 So it is very strong number, robust number, and that's
10:19:54:24 what this healthy forest is doing for you.
10:19:56:22 And that's what it takes to get many of these
10:20:00:18 pollutants removed.
10:20:01:12 A nonhealthy forest will not be able to remove as much
10:20:05:15 of these pollutants as a healthy one will.
10:20:08:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How much more time do you need?
10:20:10:16 >> Just about three more slides.
10:20:12:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:20:14:00 >> I'll go quickly.
10:20:14:27 Carbon storage, this is an important piece of
10:20:23:07 information in terms of the green initiatives that have
10:20:25:00 been signed by the Mayor and the governor, and we can

10:20:29:06 tell you how much of the forest is storing carbon from
10:20:33:27 the atmosphere, and we can tell you by species, and we
10:20:37:09 can give you the value of it.
10:20:38:21 The total value of carbon stored in the urban forest is
10:20:42:03 $10.3 million.
10:20:43:18 That's the standing carbon out there.
10:20:46:03 Annually, the forests grow and they sequester carbon
10:20:50:18 every year.
10:20:51:03 In this case about a million dollars a year is being
10:20:53:21 sequestered, million dollars' worth of carbon
10:20:56:15 sequestered by this urban forest.
10:20:58:27 Again, the more vigorous, healthy forest you have, the
10:21:01:25 more carbon you'll be able to store.
10:21:03:18 Forests also have values in cooling and affecting the
10:21:09:27 microclimates of the city.
10:21:11:18 And we were able to calculate the value of this cooling
10:21:17:19 effect for residential homes.
10:21:18:27 So what we have here is a graph that shows you how much
10:21:24:18 energy was conserved as a result of trees being near
10:21:27:16 homes, shading homes, therefore, they don't have to run
10:21:30:15 the air-conditioners for as long.
10:21:33:09 We calculate that in terms of energy savings as well as
10:21:37:16 put a dollar value on that.
10:21:39:18 Energy savings overall, about four million dollars a
10:21:42:18 year is being saved as a result of having trees in the

10:21:45:19 city, and then we also were able to say, well, how much
10:21:48:22 energy, because they didn't have to run those as much,
10:21:51:07 how much energy was not produced, therefore, how much
10:21:56:22 carbon was avoided being emitted and that added to
10:22:00:06 another 125,000 plus per year.
10:22:02:04 So a nice value to think about when we -- this urban
10:22:06:09 forest produces a lot for this city at a relatively low
10:22:09:24 cost.
10:22:10:01 Many other values that the urban forest produced that
10:22:17:04 we did not calculate for you for this report, but we do
10:22:21:09 know they are important to you as citizens, as
10:22:25:00 Councilmen, as policy planners.
10:22:26:22 Stormwater flow water quality, human health certainly
10:22:29:01 is one of those.
10:22:30:22 Think about the pollution removal.
10:22:32:00 Those values I gave you did not include the public
10:22:35:12 health values of having cleaner air.
10:22:38:00 Property values, that impacts taxes, and how much we
10:22:41:22 can generate from those, reduction in violent crime,
10:22:46:10 economics of retail businesses are enhanced, areas
10:22:49:06 where people like to shop, and this they are pleasant
10:22:51:21 to shop in.
10:22:52:13 They spend more money.
10:22:53:16 Again, a good thing for all of us.
10:22:55:06 They do have effects on traffic calming, and certainly

10:22:58:18 and finally, last but not least, biodiversity and
10:23:01:21 habitat.
10:23:02:06 And this may seem warm and fuzzy to some of you, but
10:23:05:18 this is really important when we think about the canary
10:23:07:24 in the coal mine idea.
10:23:10:24 What's happening to the animals and plants in this area
10:23:13:12 ultimately is going to happen to us.
10:23:14:27 As a result of this, we have, as was mentioned earlier,
10:23:21:00 we have some next steps we're going to present and

10:23:23:13 June 19th at the convention center, this report in
10:23:26:18 full to the public for review, and that's called the
10:23:29:25 Mayor's conference on community trees and urban forests
10:23:32:15 from 9:00 to 12:30 p.m. at the convention center.
10:23:36:13 And we are also involved in developing a master plan,
10:23:41:21 in the early stages of developing a master plan and
10:23:45:03 we'll have a public program called strategies for the
10:23:47:21 sustainability of Tampa's urban forest.
10:23:49:13 That's all I have.
10:23:51:28 I thank you for indulging me and allowing me to go over
10:23:56:13 time.
10:23:57:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me thank you and all the presenters
10:23:59:04 for a very thorough and excellent report.
10:24:01:04 I would ask if we can all get a copy of your
10:24:03:15 presentation, I think that would be helpful.
10:24:05:10 Because we don't have a copy.

10:24:07:10 So thank you so very much.
10:24:08:10 Councilwoman Saul-Sena and then councilman John
10:24:12:09 Dingfelder.
10:24:13:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This was excellent.
10:24:14:09 We never had this level of work.
10:24:16:00 It's great.
10:24:16:22 The 19th happens to be a City Council meeting day.
10:24:19:13 So I think it would be appropriate if you provided
10:24:22:24 Council the implementable steps prior to that because
10:24:28:04 there are probably policy recommendations that we need
10:24:29:27 to implement in terms of our zoning conditions,
10:24:33:04 technical manual, things like that that we can then
10:24:36:03 implement to make sure we even better protect our tree
10:24:39:00 canopy in the future.
10:24:40:00 This is a great report.
10:24:41:18 >> Thank you for your comments.
10:24:48:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Couple of questions with
10:24:50:21 methodology.
10:24:52:01 How about airports and the military base?
10:24:55:00 To me, it almost skews the numbers a little bit because
10:24:59:06 it's just a logical place that you wouldn't have trees,
10:25:01:27 don't want trees, never will have trees.
10:25:03:22 Did you all consider that?
10:25:06:12 >> Well, what we feel is that it actually -- it doesn't
10:25:09:04 skew it.

10:25:10:00 It is what it is.
10:25:10:22 The forest is what it is.
10:25:11:27 That is part of your land base here.
10:25:15:07 So understanding that, we can pull those plots out, if
10:25:17:12 you want to look at it without them, that's certainly a
10:25:20:00 possibility.
10:25:20:10 But it is contributing something in terms of its carbon
10:25:25:06 sequestration, pollution removal, its compensatory
10:25:29:27 value, those are all part of this urban area within the
10:25:32:24 boundaries of the City of Tampa.
10:25:34:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I mean, I just noticed Tampa
10:25:35:19 International Airport is a big chunk of nonforested
10:25:39:18 area on the map, but it's sort of -- it's a little bit
10:25:41:28 unfair because that's what we want.
10:25:43:16 Anyway, and then in regard -- and similar question in
10:25:47:16 regard to -- you pulled out the mangroves, I would
10:25:51:10 think that we'd want to perhaps pull out the Brazilian
10:25:54:09 peppers because we really do want to pull out the
10:25:58:04 Brazilian peppers.
10:25:59:12 [ LAUGHTER ]
10:25:59:27 I mean, and that's another thing, and I hope that
10:26:02:28 Karen, that we can work on this is, I had no idea that
10:26:07:12 we had such a large Brazilian pepper problem.
10:26:10:06 I know I see it on the periphery of town, but now I'm
10:26:13:16 starting to conclude that maybe it's a bigger problem

10:26:15:27 than I realized, and maybe we need to have a program to
10:26:19:15 start addressing that.
10:26:22:07 Of course, it will hurt our numbers on tree cover.
10:26:27:03 >> And again, that's the value of this report is it
10:26:29:27 allows you to make that determination, wow!
10:26:32:28 I didn't realize that that was going on here.
10:26:35:12 Now we have information by which we can go about making
10:26:38:25 an informed decision on developing a program to remove
10:26:40:25 these, and also beginning to understand, what are we
10:26:42:28 going to lose?
10:26:43:28 If we remove those from the city, what's that going to
10:26:46:19 mean in terms of pollution removal because they are
10:26:51:21 serving that function in some capacity.
10:26:53:22 They are serving some function in terms of carbon
10:26:56:00 sequestration.
10:26:56:25 So you, as policymakers, are going to have to decide,
10:27:00:18 how do we use this information, what do we replace it
10:27:03:13 with?
10:27:04:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's an interesting point.
10:27:05:09 The last question I had, I'm pretty familiar with a lot
10:27:07:21 of trees, especially in Florida, but I don't know what
10:27:09:27 a White lead tree is.
10:27:12:21 >> It's another nonnative exotic tree.
10:27:16:21 It's a nondesirable.
10:27:17:24 It's an invasive species and a nondesirable species

10:27:21:24 that we do have a problem with.
10:27:23:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Looks like some other --
10:27:25:04 >> I want to make one point to clarify, Linda, you were
10:27:27:25 asking about June 19th.
10:27:29:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
10:27:30:06 >> Okay, what we are going to do on June 19th is we're
10:27:33:04 going to present the findings.
10:27:35:16 Then we're going to hold a little bit of an interactive
10:27:39:06 session for citizens so they can give us their
10:27:41:21 perspective on the urban forest and its values.
10:27:44:09 The strategy for developing a sustainable urban forest
10:27:49:01 in Tampa is a long-term process, and it very
10:27:55:06 specifically is addressed as building consensus among
10:27:59:03 all the different people and businesses and all within
10:28:02:03 the city, so that we then can bring to you or to the
10:28:06:28 Mayor or to the staff, a consensus understanding of how
10:28:09:27 people feel about the urban forest, and from there, you
10:28:12:12 can begin to build or augment regulations and
10:28:15:24 programmatic initiatives that lead to sustainability.
10:28:19:18 So I want to make sure that you understand that we are
10:28:21:09 not going to write a list and say that's not what we're
10:28:24:12 doing.

10:28:27:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:28:29:10 Councilwoman Mulhern and then Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:28:32:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.

10:28:33:18 I have a question, when you were talking about the
10:28:35:13 percentage of tree canopy and lawns and then shrub
10:28:39:21 cover, were those percentages for the entire city?
10:28:45:25 >> Yes.
10:28:46:03 So when we're talking about -- I said impermeable
10:28:51:00 surfaces were about 33% of the city, and I think that
10:28:53:15 includes roads, buildings, et cetera, and I think
10:28:58:06 that's a very similar number to what Shawn's remote
10:29:03:00 sensing analysis calculated.
10:29:04:07 Then the remainder of the area is impermeable surfaces.
10:29:07:13 Within that, we were able to break those permeable
10:29:10:18 surfaces into different categories.
10:29:12:19 Some of them are rocks, some are wild grasses or
10:29:15:21 unmaintained areas and then maintained lawns was one
10:29:20:09 such category.
10:29:22:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Of the permeable surfaces, 30 to
10:29:24:10 33 percent has tree canopy, and 30 percent lawns.
10:29:28:18 >> 30% is in maintained grass or lawns, yes.
10:29:31:19 >>MARY MULHERN: But that's not 33 -- that's 33% of 66%.
10:29:37:13 >> There's 30% overall ground cover, total ground
10:29:40:15 cover.
10:29:41:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
10:29:41:27 But just of the permeable.
10:29:44:15 Not of the entire land area.
10:29:47:22 >> Yes, of the entire city.

10:29:50:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Of the entire city.
10:29:51:06 >> Yes.
10:29:52:09 >>MARY MULHERN: 30% of our city is lawn.
10:29:55:06 >> Yes.
10:29:55:24 Ground cover.
10:29:58:09 Remember, these are strata.
10:29:59:13 You can have overlapping areas here.
10:30:01:09 You can have tree cover, shrub cover below that.
10:30:05:09 And below that, you can have ground cover.
10:30:08:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's not necessarily irrigated.
10:30:09:24 >> Not necessarily irrigated.
10:30:11:00 We call that maintained grass.
10:30:12:15 And that was defined as areas that were mowed regularly
10:30:17:10 and potentially irrigated but not necessarily
10:30:22:25 irrigated.
10:30:23:18 Not by definition.
10:30:26:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:30:27:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:30:28:03 I wanted to thank all of the people who did the study
10:30:30:15 and especially the Parks Department and encourage you
10:30:33:01 to invite the previous committee that worked for so
10:30:36:24 long on our tree ordinance to attend the meeting on the
10:30:39:09 19th.
10:30:39:24 And I would like you to come up with some thought on
10:30:42:07 the very small percentage of the larger trees.

10:30:44:15 We had at a previous date discussed the protection of
10:30:48:10 what we call mature trees, which were just pregrand.
10:30:52:06 Because if you cut down something that's an interim
10:30:55:03 grand, it will take a long time to replace it.
10:30:57:22 And that's a particular concern, which this wonderful
10:31:02:22 science really clarified and documented for us is the
10:31:05:28 number -- the very small percentage, less than 1% of
10:31:09:06 those trees in the process of becoming grand.
10:31:13:03 And it really underscores our need to make sure that
10:31:16:27 they make it to a grand status.
10:31:18:25 And I don't know that you have any more detailed
10:31:22:28 information on whether those numbers have gone up or
10:31:27:09 down in the last decade, but that would be of great
10:31:29:28 interest to us also.
10:31:30:27 Thank you so much.
10:31:34:07 >>MARY MULHERN: One quick question.
10:31:35:24 Linda reminded me.
10:31:38:21 Is this the first time you've been able to do that
10:31:40:21 breakdown of those?
10:31:41:21 So we don't have a pie chart we can compare it to from
10:31:44:06 1986?
10:31:45:01 Is there a way to reconstruct that somehow?
10:31:49:03 >> That's correct.
10:31:49:18 This part of the study was new and so you don't have a
10:31:55:03 way of comparing.

10:31:56:24 >> We will for the future.
10:31:58:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Again, thank all of you for your
10:32:00:04 presentation.
10:32:00:12 [ APPLAUSE ]
10:32:01:01 Excuse me.
10:32:09:06 Don't leave just yet.
10:32:10:06 We have public comment at this time.
10:32:11:16 Three minutes per speaker, come forward and state your
10:32:15:16 name and address.
10:32:16:13 You have three minutes.
10:32:22:27 >> Terry Neal, east river hills drive, Tampa, Florida.
10:32:27:03 I pulled out my share of Brazilian pepper the last two
10:32:30:16 weeks.
10:32:30:24 Pull a pepper and plant an oak program.
10:32:35:12 How about that?
10:32:36:07 I think you'll agree with me that our trees may be
10:32:39:19 valued at one billion dollars, but as far as I'm
10:32:42:24 concerned, there's no value to the tree canopies and
10:32:45:06 the trees that we have.
10:32:46:12 They are invaluable.
10:32:47:12 Anything that would take them away from us would be
10:32:49:15 horrible.
10:32:49:27 Trees are little carbon factors.
10:32:53:21 And factories and cars put carbon into the air, but
10:32:56:24 every time you remove a tree, you put more carbon into

10:32:59:24 the air, because that tree is not there to take it out.
10:33:02:22 And I'm very concerned about the amount of trees that
10:33:07:10 we have.
10:33:07:21 I don't think we have enough.
10:33:09:01 I really don't.
10:33:10:06 And part of the questions that we had were why do we
10:33:15:03 not have some trees in certain areas or why are they
10:33:17:25 disappearing.
10:33:18:28 Let me give you some examples of why they are
10:33:20:24 disappearing.
10:33:21:21 First of all, we have some large lots in my
10:33:23:15 neighborhood that we've been subdividing and putting
10:33:26:24 smaller houses on.
10:33:27:27 Those smaller houses are cutting into the root systems
10:33:30:04 of trees, and those trees are dying.
10:33:32:09 Secondly, we had Oxford park apartments built on Busch
10:33:38:18 Boulevard.
10:33:39:06 We were guaranteed that 55% of the trees would remain.
10:33:42:24 We did tree counts in our neighborhood, and during the
10:33:45:15 construction, we counted the trees as they were coming
10:33:48:12 down, 25% of the trees remained after the construction.
10:33:52:03 We alerted the Parks Department.
10:33:53:18 We alerted everyone, and no one did anything about it.
10:33:57:07 They turned their backs to it.
10:33:58:19 We had a tree farm in our neighborhood, 20 acres plowed

10:34:02:09 under, plowed under, built with houses.
10:34:05:21 And, of course, they put trees on the streets, but they
10:34:08:19 put these little fenced in things that will take 20, 30
10:34:12:09 years to grow up.
10:34:13:24 And I don't care if you don't want to hear it or not,
10:34:17:00 but I know Linda does, every time I drive by the IKEA
10:34:23:00 site, I cringe.
10:34:25:16 It's disgusting.
10:34:27:15 It's a flat dusty bowl, looks like Kansas.
10:34:30:24 And the fact that we did not require them to put more
10:34:34:06 trees and greenhouse -- green things to take carbon out
10:34:38:24 of the air is really, I think, a shame.
10:34:42:19 And I don't mean to offend anyone, but every time you
10:34:46:01 go by there, go by there today.
10:34:48:00 It's really sad to see that.
10:34:49:21 And our shopping malls and our airports and some of the
10:34:53:01 things that can't do that, but shopping malls in
10:34:55:27 particular, wipe out trees.
10:34:58:28 Every bit of development has to be taken into
10:35:01:00 consideration.
10:35:01:19 As far as I'm concerned, 30% -- the amount of live oak
10:35:05:03 is ridiculous.
10:35:05:21 We need much more live oak in the city.
10:35:08:00 But trees cool our houses.
10:35:11:03 They cool our buildings.

10:35:12:15 We should be looking at rooftop gardens, you know.
10:35:15:22 That's one of the things they are doing in Chicago.
10:35:17:19 One of the biggest projects that Richard daily has
10:35:20:00 right now in Chicago is rooftop gardens.
10:35:22:06 And it's increasing the amount of ground cover, grasses
10:35:26:19 and trees that are removing carbon from the air.
10:35:29:18 So, please, I'm so happy to hear this study.
10:35:33:09 I put down on the sheet that I didn't know what I was
10:35:35:25 going to talk about because I didn't know what anybody
10:35:37:22 was going to say, but I'm really happy to hear this
10:35:41:15 tree canopy study today.
10:35:43:03 I didn't know what was going to be said, and thank you
10:35:45:24 for bringing them to here.
10:35:47:04 And again, pull a pepper plant an oak.
10:35:51:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Neil.
10:35:52:22 Thank you.
10:35:53:12 Next speaker.
10:35:56:27 >> Hi.
10:35:57:15 I didn't realize we'd have an opportunity to speak, so
10:36:00:13 I didn't fill out a form.
10:36:01:24 Remind me to do that.
10:36:03:21 Melanie Higgins, west Pearl Avenue, past president of
10:36:06:18 Alice point Neighborhood Association.
10:36:08:09 I was on the citizens advisory committee for the tree
10:36:10:15 code changes.

10:36:11:07 And I'm currently on a variance review board.
10:36:14:19 Ballast Point has been a champion of trees for many,
10:36:17:21 many years.
10:36:18:06 If you want to know what happens when you pull out
10:36:20:06 Brazilian peppers look down at our project on south
10:36:23:18 Bayshore.
10:36:24:16 Ten years ago we pulled them out and now we have a
10:36:27:01 healthy mangrove forest.
10:36:28:09 There's an FDEP sign that says they are protected.
10:36:31:03 So that was a great thing that we did ten years ago.
10:36:34:09 We've also in Ballast Point Neighborhood Association,
10:36:37:10 we've cataloged our grand trees.
10:36:39:13 John helped with us that a few years ago, thank you.
10:36:41:28 And we were one of the first neighborhoods to do that.
10:36:44:07 I feel it's very important, particularly, to remove
10:36:49:01 these exotic trees, melaleuca, lead trees, punk -- the
10:36:53:27 melaleuca and Brazilian peppers and replace them with
10:36:58:21 other trees.
10:36:59:13 We can do that.
10:37:00:16 The city should have some kind of mechanism to help
10:37:03:00 private homeowners get rid of those specimens in their
10:37:06:25 yard and help replace them with other trees.
10:37:08:25 If I could get rid of some of those melaleuca in my
10:37:12:00 neighborhood, I would spent my own money to replace
10:37:15:03 them with good trees.

10:37:16:09 But it's difficult when it costs you thousands of
10:37:19:01 dollars to remove them.
10:37:20:15 Melaleuca makes really good mulch, by the way.
10:37:23:25 This study is fabulous.
10:37:26:21 We have worked for years to get this study done, and I
10:37:32:01 just commend the Parks Department, USF, and everybody
10:37:34:15 that worked on it.
10:37:35:22 And I hope that we can just move forward and come up
10:37:40:18 with some policies and encouragement for people to get
10:37:43:25 rid of the bad trees, plant good trees and help the
10:37:46:21 City of Tampa be a model for the future.
10:37:49:12 Thank you.
10:37:56:21 >> My name is Sue Lyon.
10:38:01:25 You don't realize how happy I am to see this.
10:38:06:19 I've hugged trees for 20 years, and to see somebody
10:38:14:07 care, it's amazing.
10:38:18:03 I'm sorry that some of the other Council people took
10:38:21:18 this opportunity to -- but the people of Tampa need
10:38:27:12 this.
10:38:27:22 They need their trees.
10:38:33:21 They need you-all to pay attention, to realize that
10:38:40:00 there's an economic value to trees.
10:38:41:27 We have been up here, we have begged.
10:38:45:12 We have cried.
10:38:46:22 We have done everything we could, but look at it.

10:38:50:07 It's money in your pocket.
10:38:51:25 It's not something to be entered into lightly.
10:38:56:06 It should be put into the Planning Commission when they
10:38:59:03 come up here, this survey should be put in here.
10:39:02:24 We say we have 12 million trees or whatever, but most
10:39:06:00 of them are Brazilian peppers.
10:39:08:13 What good are they?
10:39:09:16 And the mangroves are wonderful, but try to get some
10:39:13:25 shade from a mangrove.
10:39:16:12 It isn't possible.
10:39:17:24 And they cut down these trees, and we cry and we attack
10:39:23:07 people with chain saws.
10:39:25:18 I'm sorry I cried.
10:39:29:22 I've never done this before in my life.
10:39:31:25 Thank you very much.
10:39:32:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:39:33:00 Thank you very much.
10:39:35:18 [ APPLAUSE ]
10:39:41:06 >> Jennifer Doerfel with the Tampa Bay Builders
10:39:45:09 Association.
10:39:45:28 We, too, have been working with the study and we
10:39:48:25 appreciate everything that has been done and we look
10:39:51:18 forward to working with everybody to see that the
10:39:53:15 problem trees are no longer a problem, and we have
10:39:57:00 clean air, and we have good trees to work with in the

10:40:00:13 community.
10:40:00:21 And we're looking forward to getting a copy of the
10:40:03:04 study as well.
10:40:03:27 So thank you very much.
10:40:05:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:40:12:18 >> Good afternoon, Council.
10:40:13:24 Gary brown, 114 south Oregon.
10:40:16:15 I'm here to thank Mr. Dingfelder for working with the
10:40:20:04 Builders Association and causing this study to happen.
10:40:23:27 You've got to love science, don't ya.
10:40:26:06 I wish I paid more attention in my chemistry classes.
10:40:30:04 No, seriously, this is the best thing that could have
10:40:33:10 happened.
10:40:34:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Very good study.
10:40:35:15 >> And we do look forward to being a big part of
10:40:38:00 building some kind of consensus with all of the
10:40:42:06 stakeholders in the city.
10:40:44:00 So thank you, John.
10:40:46:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
10:40:53:09 >> Good morning.
10:40:53:24 I'm Wofford Johnson, 4625 Longfellow Avenue, and I'm
10:40:58:07 president of T.H.A.N.
10:41:02:18 Excellent presentation, something long overdue and we
10:41:05:24 appreciate the good work these people have done.
10:41:08:03 I have one question.

10:41:09:10 That's from the standpoint of, for the sake of our
10:41:13:16 Neighborhood Associations, do you have any idea when
10:41:15:13 you might have this information on a Web site that
10:41:18:27 could be accessed?
10:41:24:16 >> Rob Northrop again, we received a grant from the
10:41:28:09 Florida division of forestry to produce a Web site for
10:41:30:18 this exact purpose.
10:41:31:25 And we are in the process of designing it.

10:41:34:19 I can't give you a date, but we're hoping to get it up
10:41:38:22 just as soon as we can.
10:41:40:00 We have the money and the technology to do it.
10:41:42:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, as soon as you get it up, it
10:41:44:24 would be good to let us know so we can let the public
10:41:47:15 know and let our offices know.
10:41:49:13 >> Absolutely.
10:41:51:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Again, thank you all very much, parks
10:41:53:28 and rec, and all of those who have presented today.
10:41:57:15 Very, very good study.
10:41:59:12 I look forward to getting my copy.
10:42:01:04 So thank you.
10:42:01:19 Okay.
10:42:02:15 Thank you very much.
10:42:05:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I look forward to implementing some
10:42:07:16 policy recommendation.
10:42:08:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We will now take up item number 2 on

10:42:11:03 our agenda, and that is the Tampa comprehensive plan
10:42:13:28 update regarding the density bonus for green
10:42:20:15 construction.
10:42:23:03 >> That's going to make my report look like a booger.
10:42:26:04 Thom Snelling, growth management, development services.
10:42:38:07 --
10:42:38:18 >> And green guy.
10:42:43:28 >>THOM SNELLING: Actually, all my clothes are made out
10:42:46:00 of recycled plastic bottles.
10:42:48:16 Okay.
10:42:54:28 It's item number 2, and that's really to talk about one
10:42:58:09 of the concerns Council had about doing bonus densities
10:43:02:09 and everything else and moving forward perhaps too
10:43:05:07 quickly before the comprehensive plan was caught up in
10:43:07:16 talking about some of the growth areas and where these
10:43:09:18 densities could be used as it applies to the various
10:43:13:06 sustainable green efforts that are currently underway.
10:43:15:25 So to address that, I've really done two things.
10:43:19:19 One, and the resolution --
10:43:22:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Have you written anything?
10:43:24:12 >>THOM SNELLING: No, ma'am.
10:43:24:22 Well, not about this particular item, but I do have
10:43:27:18 written stuff that I will hand out in just a second.
10:43:30:28 What I have done is added language in the resolution
10:43:34:10 that talked about that, but the city -- basically, very

10:43:37:12 quickly, says the city will evaluate the use of bonus
10:43:39:27 densities, bonus floor area ratios, intensities and
10:43:43:03 increase height allowances and wants this evaluation to
10:43:47:00 be part of the actual analysis in the comprehensive
10:43:48:18 plan update process and only for development in areas
10:43:51:06 designated as growth areas.
10:43:55:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Snelling, you know, people learn
10:43:58:00 in different ways.
10:43:59:13 Some people learn audibly, some people learn from
10:44:03:16 seeing something written.
10:44:04:15 It would be really helpful in the future when we have
10:44:06:27 workshops to provide some written material that you
10:44:08:21 could put up there or we could look at, because it's
10:44:11:24 hard as you flow through this for us to follow what
10:44:15:24 you're saying.
10:44:16:16 If you could please provide something for the audience,
10:44:18:22 for ourselves, so that we can best absorb the
10:44:21:06 information you're sharing.
10:44:22:10 Thank you.
10:44:26:13 >>MARY MULHERN: I do have a copy of the ordinance.
10:44:27:28 Do you have that?
10:44:29:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I don't.
10:44:30:00 Thank you.
10:44:34:21 I appreciate that.
10:44:47:01 >>THOM SNELLING: That had that language right here on

10:44:49:28 37.2.4, that policy, that's the specific language that
10:44:54:27 I'm referring back to the Planning Commission to put
10:44:57:10 that into the comp plan that addresses that issue, that
10:44:59:18 still needs to be ferreted out a little bit.
10:45:02:06 And then you can see the actual comment at the end I
10:45:05:06 said or something like that.
10:45:06:13 Basically, that talks about putting it only in the
10:45:08:21 growth areas, and that is completely contained within
10:45:12:06 the sustainable development section of the
10:45:14:09 comprehensive plan.
10:45:14:27 So it actually is in there.
10:45:16:12 And that's really the totality of the workshop on that
10:45:20:09 particular item, because that was addressing
10:45:23:19 specifically that Council wanted that removed from the
10:45:25:27 copy of the resolution and ordinances that were being
10:45:28:16 discussed for green building and sustainability and
10:45:30:21 continued to be part of the comprehensive plan update.
10:45:33:01 And that has been done.
10:45:37:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
10:45:39:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thanks, Thom.
10:45:40:03 Let's talk about this before we move on and talk about
10:45:42:06 the green ordinance and the green resolution.
10:45:44:24 I know staff wasn't necessarily part of this
10:45:51:18 discussion, but when I met with than to talk about the
10:45:56:19 green ordinance, and this subject came up in a big way,

10:46:01:12 they said they were generally and volunteered to speak
10:46:05:03 to this, but they said they were generally in support
10:46:07:09 of the green ordinance and the rest of it, but --
10:46:10:00 except for this issue.
10:46:11:03 They had some heartburn on this issue as we can
10:46:15:03 imagine.
10:46:16:27 Leave that up for a second, Thom.
10:46:18:07 I personally agreed that we would move slowly or differ
10:46:27:25 this issue of intensity and density bonuses as related
10:46:33:18 to green building mainly because, you know, I heard
10:46:37:01 their concerns, and I thought that it's something that
10:46:40:18 we should be a little more methodical about because of
10:46:44:28 their concerns.
10:46:45:18 So, like I say, I know you didn't have the benefit of
10:46:53:15 that discussion and maybe you and I haven't talked
10:46:55:15 about that.
10:46:56:06 I don't know.
10:46:56:18 But anyway, I think, you know, we do need to honor
10:47:00:13 their concerns about density and intensity bonuses and
10:47:06:24 hear their concerns and see where we go from there.
10:47:11:00 >>THOM SNELLING: And that's exactly what this does,
10:47:13:09 councilman, is that we remove that to have a fuller
10:47:15:24 vetting as part of the actual comp plan update.
10:47:18:01 The comments are due back to the Planning Commission
10:47:21:21 starting tomorrow for the last draft that they are

10:47:24:10 working on.
10:47:26:04 And these will be sent over to the Planning Commission
10:47:28:03 themselves, and incorporated as part of that.
10:47:33:07 To specifically have that discussion and then later
10:47:35:24 gone, come back and adopt whatever Land Development
10:47:38:09 regulations would implement that type of bonus density,
10:47:41:16 performance standard.
10:47:42:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think maybe one of the ways we
10:47:44:01 could accomplish sort of a compromise on this -- and I
10:47:49:01 want T.H.A.N. folks to hear me loud and clear on this,
10:47:52:18 really on this issue of how we define growth areas.
10:47:56:01 Because I think that if we start off with a program of
10:47:59:25 offering density increases and bonuses in really truly
10:48:06:18 urbanized areas, the Ybor, downtown, Channelside, and
10:48:12:21 maybe along some of our corridors, and limit it to
10:48:16:12 that, that I think that the folks in the neighborhoods
10:48:19:22 wouldn't have as much concern about it.
10:48:21:21 But I think if we leave it broad, the growth areas as
10:48:26:09 originally defined by ray Chiaramonte and those guys --
10:48:30:03 there's ray right there -- was a pretty large area, and
10:48:33:27 I think that would cause the neighborhood some concern
10:48:35:18 and me some concern.
10:48:36:15 So anyway, as we move forward on that -- on this
10:48:39:21 particular policy in the next couple of months, maybe
10:48:42:07 what we can do is just tighten in on what we mean by

10:48:47:12 that growth area.
10:48:49:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Just further to that, I did notice
10:48:52:12 that, Thom, you did put the growth area clause in
10:48:56:12 there, and I think although I know Mrs. Vizzi knows
10:49:05:15 every version of this comp plan better than any of us,
10:49:08:16 it looks like they are going to -- the Planning
10:49:12:28 Commission is going to try to keep this not within --
10:49:16:13 the areas are going to be stabilized, the neighborhoods
10:49:20:09 that are --
10:49:22:03 >>THOM SNELLING: And that is one of the things we had
10:49:23:13 talked about, a very clear distinction between what is
10:49:26:04 being considered single-family stability areas.
10:49:28:03 And to really, you know, to craft language that
10:49:31:27 preserves those and doesn't allow the kind of densities
10:49:36:03 we're talking about which I think also speaks to
10:49:38:21 councilman Dingfelder's question about what T.H.A.N.'s
10:49:42:00 concerns are.
10:49:43:16 >>MARY MULHERN: I think my experience, because we have
10:49:44:24 been doing this Channelside, piece by piece here,
10:49:47:22 giving density bonuses, it really comes down to how
10:49:51:06 we're writing this into our code, I think, and what
10:49:55:19 these formulas that we create and these stipulations
10:50:00:27 for what you need to do in order to get that density
10:50:04:06 bonus is really what we need to look at, too, because
10:50:08:06 it can make a difference and it can make a difference

10:50:11:00 how much density you're going to allow.
10:50:17:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:50:18:15 Have you concluded your presentation?
10:50:20:15 >>THOM SNELLING: On this item, yes, I have.
10:50:22:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, if I could
10:50:24:06 procedurally, a point on this.
10:50:26:21 It's a relevant point.
10:50:29:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: He's finished with his presentation so
10:50:30:16 then go ahead.
10:50:32:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There was some confusion in terms of
10:50:34:18 what we were going to be discussing today.
10:50:36:24 A couple of months ago when we sort of moved along the
10:50:40:06 rest of the green ordinance and the rest of the green
10:50:42:15 resolution and asked legal to look at it, I thought we
10:50:46:19 had put it on this agenda.
10:50:49:06 But apparently, the motion wasn't abundantly clear,
10:50:54:27 probably my fault, and it didn't get on this agenda.
10:50:57:12 So David Smith and I and Thom and some others talked
10:51:01:04 about this yesterday, and I think that it's probably
10:51:03:15 best since it didn't make it formally on the agenda
10:51:06:06 that we not -- and plus since we're now sort of running
10:51:09:15 short on time that we go ahead and maybe defer the
10:51:11:22 discussion for about two weeks.
10:51:13:04 I think that's probably a benefit, because that way
10:51:16:00 Thom can give all Council members the work product that

10:51:19:04 he's been working on with legal and with my office, and
10:51:23:27 he can discuss that with you guys individually over the
10:51:26:24 next two weeks.
10:51:28:12 And then we can flesh this out.
10:51:32:12 I think we're making good progress on reaching
10:51:34:15 compromises between the administration's position and
10:51:36:18 Council's position, and I think two weeks would help us
10:51:40:13 in terms of addressing the green ordinance and the
10:51:44:04 green resolution.
10:51:45:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let me just speak to that for a
10:51:47:27 moment.
10:51:48:10 First of all, can't defer.
10:51:52:25 We already dealt with the item today.
10:51:55:01 And the item today is dealing with density bonus
10:51:58:21 related to green construction.
10:51:59:24 This is supposed to be a comprehensive plan update on
10:52:02:04 that item.
10:52:03:00 And so I would suggest, you know, of course, legal may
10:52:06:28 want to talk about that in terms of the ordinance
10:52:09:01 whether you need to have a workshop on that or not.
10:52:11:01 But right now, this issue and Mr. Shelby, you may want
10:52:15:16 to speak to it or the City Attorney may want to speak
10:52:17:28 to this, the issue today is strictly update on the
10:52:22:27 density bonus relative to the comprehensive plan.
10:52:25:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to just make a simple

10:52:26:24 motion, it really wouldn't be a continuance of item two
10:52:30:01 just so we can get it on our calendar that two weeks
10:52:32:27 from now -- we have a regular meeting two weeks from
10:52:35:15 now, I assume.
10:52:36:21 >> The 15th.
10:52:37:21 The 15th would be three weeks from now.
10:52:40:07 Two weeks from now is the CRA meeting.
10:52:42:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Three weeks from now on the 15th
10:52:44:03 that we would address the green ordinance and the green
10:52:46:24 resolution.
10:52:47:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:52:48:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And all the components of it.
10:52:49:22 And then that way it's simple.
10:52:53:04 We dealt with it.
10:52:55:22 We can deal with it and move it on.
10:52:58:03 >>DAVID SMITH: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, David Smith,
10:52:59:21 City Attorney.
10:53:00:18 And with regard to your question, this is precisely, I
10:53:03:06 think, the procedure Council has to employ in order to
10:53:08:21 establish the agenda, have a motion, a second and a
10:53:11:12 vote to put this on the agenda.
10:53:13:00 I think the 15th is an excellent date.
10:53:15:21 That will give, as councilman Dingfelder mentioned, an
10:53:18:24 opportunity for Mr. Snelling to revise his draft.
10:53:22:16 It will give us opportunity to provide you additional

10:53:25:16 information we have.
10:53:26:12 We think that's an excellent suggestion.
10:53:29:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me raise a question procedurally.
10:53:30:28 Mr. Shelby, I know initially when we start talking
10:53:36:24 about workshop, we said we won't take official action,
10:53:41:25 since we allow public comment, I guess we can do that
10:53:44:21 before.

10:53:45:06 I know we talked before about not taking official
10:53:48:12 action at a workshop unless we had public comment.
10:53:51:09 I guess that's a moot point now.
10:53:54:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, the other issue is, it almost
10:53:56:06 appears as if Mr. Dingfelder is bringing up new
10:53:59:01 business at this point and it's whether Council wants
10:54:01:27 to entertain the motion now or at some other point in
10:54:04:24 the agenda.
10:54:05:13 But he certainly has the ability to do so.
10:54:10:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Smith and you both said we can
10:54:12:13 at workshops ask for the staff to report back to us at
10:54:15:10 a regular Council meeting on something.
10:54:17:24 And it seems to me that was what Mr. Dingfelder did was
10:54:22:24 ask for information back from staff that would appear
10:54:26:16 under staff comments and updates at our Council
10:54:28:27 meeting, and that would legitimate.
10:54:31:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's the intent of the motion.
10:54:33:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

10:54:35:09 I didn't understand.
10:54:36:00 I thought the motion would bring the ordinance at our
10:54:38:12 next meeting in three weeks.
10:54:40:03 >>DAVID SMITH: No, sir.
10:54:40:19 I would recommend we have the discussion on the 15th
10:54:43:03 so Council can get all of the information and then
10:54:46:09 provide clear direction on what you want in the
10:54:48:15 ordinance.
10:54:49:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's fine.
10:54:49:25 I have no problem with that.
10:54:52:12 >>DAVID SMITH: It will be in an ordinance form --
10:54:55:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me suggest before we take action on
10:54:59:15 that motion, you may want the public to speak since we
10:55:02:03 said we would do that.
10:55:03:15 So I would suggest that we kind of hold that motion in
10:55:06:15 abeyance and we now hear from the public.
10:55:08:19 >> After they speak, Chairman, if I could say a couple
10:55:11:01 of things.
10:55:14:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's hear from the public.
10:55:19:10 >> Margaret Vizzi, 213 South Sherill, only to say I
10:55:23:28 agree with moving it to discussion on the 15th, and
10:55:26:13 we would have input after what we hear again because of
10:55:30:06 the fact that it would be sort of a workshop, I guess.
10:55:36:12 But anyway, I have no problem.
10:55:46:00 >> Terry Neal, 4703 East River Hills Drive. I guess I

10:55:51:03 should have put all.
10:55:52:18 If I could have the ELMO real quick.
10:56:01:24 >> You keep it there.
10:56:02:27 They'll back away.
10:56:03:27 >> Anyway, we just had a canopy presentation on trees
10:56:06:27 and we talked about including that canopy presentation
10:56:09:10 on the -- in the comprehensive plan and in regards to
10:56:13:15 density and density bonuses, we're talking about some
10:56:17:15 incentives but not talking about incentives for trees
10:56:19:10 in those density bonuses.
10:56:20:28 And I want to make sure that if I were in favor of
10:56:23:27 subdividing parent lots and if I were in favor of huge
10:56:28:00 density, let's look at something that's been happening
10:56:30:00 in our neighborhood.
10:56:31:10 We had a parent lot that originally had three RS-50
10:56:35:18 lots that turned into an RS-75.
10:56:38:06 Well, it had two trees on it.
10:56:40:09 So what do we get?
10:56:41:27 We get three boxes that cut into the canopy of the
10:56:44:21 trees.
10:56:45:00 And we know that the canopy of the tree is the root
10:56:47:13 system.
10:56:47:28 So it's what kills the trees.
10:56:49:21 That's what I was talking about.
10:56:51:01 And in the comprehensive plan, if we could do something

10:56:53:07 like if we're going to rezone parent lots, we take into
10:56:57:01 consideration these trees, and we have some
10:57:00:03 architecturally interesting homes.
10:57:03:22 I preached about this for a long time about the cookie
10:57:07:19 cutter houses we're building and all we have to do is
10:57:10:15 have some incentives for architecturally interesting
10:57:13:15 homes that not only provide interest to us visually,
10:57:19:12 but preserve the trees, the grand trees and the large
10:57:22:18 trees and their root systems that are there so they
10:57:25:06 don't die.
10:57:25:25 That's all I wanted to say.
10:57:27:13 I'd just like to see that incorporated into the
10:57:29:19 comprehensive plan and in your density bonuses.
10:57:34:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:57:34:22 Next speaker.
10:57:40:21 >> Walter Johnson, 465 Longfellow Avenue.
10:57:44:09 And I'm president of T.H.A.N.
10:57:47:28 First of all, I want to thank Council for allowing
10:57:51:15 public comment at the end of workshops.
10:57:54:28 That's very much appreciated, and I know all our
10:57:58:00 neighborhoods really appreciate the opportunity to have
10:58:00:00 early input into the process.
10:58:01:22 And so thank you very much.
10:58:03:06 From the standpoint of densities, I had some comfort in
10:58:10:19 the way this is worded from the standpoint of growth

10:58:13:07 areas and transit routes, but I think Mr. Dingfelder is
10:58:17:12 right that, you know, we haven't defined growth areas
10:58:22:00 as yet.
10:58:22:15 But I think for the record, I would like to see that
10:58:25:06 T.H.A.N. takes a position that we do not want to see
10:58:29:12 increased densities used as a bonus.
10:58:32:19 While we support the green concept 100%, we don't want
10:58:36:21 to see increased densities used as a bonus plan within
10:58:46:09 residential neighborhoods.
10:58:47:01 There are certain areas I think where it can be done
10:58:51:00 and should be done; however, within residential
10:58:54:09 neighborhoods, we prefer not to see that as a concept.
10:58:57:21 And then secondly, and this would be an internal
10:59:00:21 process, I assume, within the city.
10:59:02:18 But we don't believe that the -- if there is any issue
10:59:08:21 involved in increased densities, particularly within
10:59:11:13 neighborhoods, that it should not be approved
10:59:14:03 administratively.
10:59:14:12 It should be your decision.
10:59:16:09 Thank you.
10:59:18:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:59:19:06 Anyone else?
10:59:21:18 Mr. Snelling.
10:59:26:03 >>THOM SNELLING: Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.
10:59:27:06 When I come back on the 15th, what I would like to

10:59:32:09 ask you is that on the 15th, what I will be
10:59:36:01 presenting you in preparation for that will be a packet
10:59:38:07 of at least two ordinances because it's been crafted as
10:59:42:06 two separate chapter 17.5 as well as chapter 13, some
10:59:46:04 of those things.
10:59:46:19 So there will be two ordinances there you'll have to
10:59:48:27 adopt.
10:59:49:09 Also, you'll be having a resolution which covers a
10:59:51:22 whole litany of other items that Council and the task
10:59:54:24 force and everybody is wanting us to move.
10:59:57:10 I would ask for you on the 15th to consider passing a
11:00:00:06 resolution.
11:00:00:13 It does not need to go to the Planning Commission.
11:00:02:24 That way at least half of this comes off the table and
11:00:05:09 then you can focus on following proper procedure, legal
11:00:08:07 protocol, everything else.
11:00:10:16 Take the ordinances transmit them to Planning
11:00:12:06 Commission, get them scheduled for the public hearings,
11:00:14:07 DOC agenda, the whole nine yards.
11:00:17:09 Get it taken care of that way.
11:00:18:24 Everybody wants to make progress, no more than I do.
11:00:20:27 If I get the resolution off, I can hit the ground
11:00:23:15 running on that.
11:00:24:12 And I have some wonderful news to share with you when
11:00:27:03 that time comes as well.

11:00:28:24 When you're doing that, please consider that as well.
11:00:31:09 Mr. Chairman, thank you.
11:00:33:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
11:00:34:03 Thank you for your presentation.
11:00:35:07 There's a motion on the floor, and I'll ask councilman
11:00:39:04 Dingfelder to restate his motion.
11:00:41:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thom, we appreciate that, we all
11:00:43:06 want to move forward as fast as possible.
11:00:45:13 I think the administration is doing a great job in that
11:00:47:24 regard.
11:00:48:06 With that, I'm going to modify my motion to request on
11:00:53:00 the 15th that staff and legal bring back a resolution
11:00:59:06 related to the green initiatives that has been
11:01:02:21 prepared.
11:01:03:09 It's sort of an amalgam of the Council product as well
11:01:07:06 as the administration product.
11:01:08:19 And I think it's a good product.
11:01:10:24 And also a draft ordinance as well.
11:01:18:16 >> Second.
11:01:19:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
11:01:21:07 Moved by councilman Dingfelder, seconded by
11:01:24:06 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
11:01:25:01 All in favor, let it be known by aye.
11:01:27:04 Opposed, same sign.
11:01:28:15 So moved.

11:01:29:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:01:30:12 Mr. Chairman, just as a follow-up, I would also urge
11:01:34:16 Council members to schedule some time with Thom in
11:01:37:18 between now and then so he can -- and legal so you can
11:01:40:13 ask any questions that you have.
11:01:42:09 Because it's not real simple.
11:01:44:28 It's simple enough.
11:01:47:03 Need to walk through it.
11:01:50:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman, to facilitate what
11:01:52:16 Mr. Dingfelder just said, I would like to put on our
11:01:56:24 calendar on the 8th, which is the week prior to the
11:02:00:04 15th, a special discussion meeting at 1:30 to discuss
11:02:07:04 this so that we can have a lot of conversation, if you
11:02:11:15 all think that would be valuable.
11:02:13:00 I mean, I think that this is going to be complicated,
11:02:15:06 and one of our things that we're trying to do as a
11:02:19:06 council is keep our regular sessions pretty tight.
11:02:23:22 And perhaps that would be a good use of Mr. Snelling's
11:02:26:21 time because he can talk to more than one Council
11:02:29:04 member at once, he can hear from the public, and it
11:02:31:15 would be a chance to have a substantive conversation
11:02:34:27 prior to the 15th.
11:02:36:00 So I'll put that out there as a motion that at 1:30 on
11:02:39:09 the 8th, we have a special discussion meeting, which
11:02:42:00 would enable the public to speak, Council members, not

11:02:45:09 necessarily a quorum, and staff to all chew on this
11:02:48:01 prior to it coming back on the 15th.
11:02:50:01 That's my motion.
11:02:54:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm a little torn.
11:02:56:18 Because from what I've seen with the work that Thom has
11:03:02:03 done and all, I think that if you just meet with them
11:03:05:24 one on one, you can probably do it very quickly and
11:03:09:13 it's probably --
11:03:10:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
11:03:10:24 Then I withdraw my motion.
11:03:13:18 >>THOM SNELLING: I'll make myself available to all
11:03:15:03 seven Council members.
11:03:16:09 I'll have rosemary give you a call and set the times
11:03:19:04 up.
11:03:19:12 If it's an hour, hour-and-a-half, whatever you decide
11:03:21:27 you need.
11:03:23:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:03:23:12 Thank you very much.
11:03:23:22 That concludes our workshop on item number 2.
11:03:26:27 We'll take up item number 3.
11:03:29:03 How much time do we need on item 3?
11:03:31:04 Mr. Chiaramonte.
11:03:35:03 >>RAY CHIARAMONTE: I would respectfully recommend that
11:03:37:04 you move our item behind Mr. Simonetta.
11:03:42:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's why I was raising that question.

11:03:45:15 >>RAY CHIARAMONTE: Probably 20 minutes, but I would
11:03:47:03 rather have him go first.
11:03:49:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:03:50:12 Thank you.
11:03:50:18 We are at the 11:00 time.
11:03:52:09 We'll take item number 5.
11:03:53:24 We have Mr. Mc-- Ms. McCloud.
11:04:01:21 >> Good morning, Mr. Chair and members of City Council.
11:04:03:21 My name is Elaine McCloud, City of Tampa transit
11:04:06:21 manager.
11:04:07:01 It is my pleasure to introduce our speaker and
11:04:10:06 facilitator, Mr. Richard Simonetta, who is the chief
11:04:13:15 executive officer for Valley Metro Rail located in
11:04:16:00 Phoenix, Arizona.
11:04:17:00 Rick is responsible for designing, building, operating,
11:04:22:01 and maintaining the light rail system there in Phoenix
11:04:25:00 Arizona in which the first 20 miles of light rail
11:04:28:04 system called the initial line or the starter line will
11:04:32:25 open December of this year.
11:04:34:16 Rick brings to us more than 35 years of mass transit
11:04:38:00 experience in both the public and the private sector.
11:04:40:09 And he has served as the chief executive officer for
11:04:45:18 marta, metropolitan Atlanta regional transportation
11:04:48:10 authority in Atlanta, which is the 7th largest
11:04:53:12 transit system in North America.

11:04:54:24 During his tenure at marta, Rick had the challenge, the
11:04:59:01 successful challenge of overseeing and providing mass
11:05:02:13 transit for the 1996 summer Olympics.
11:05:06:09 He's highly respected and outstanding leader in the
11:05:08:22 transit industry and has held leadership positions such
11:05:11:10 as the chair of the American public transportation
11:05:14:00 association APTA.
11:05:16:21 He also served as vice president for North America on
11:05:18:27 the executive board of UITP, an international global
11:05:24:01 transport organization.
11:05:25:21 Rick has served as president of several state transit
11:05:29:07 associations such as Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and
11:05:33:12 Arizona.
11:05:35:01 He is the recipient of several prestigious or industry
11:05:37:15 awards such as APTA's transit manager of the year, and
11:05:41:22 best overall transit system.
11:05:44:01 Rick earned his bachelor degree in urban planning and
11:05:48:07 his master's degree in regional planning.
11:05:50:28 He served as a commission officer in the United States'
11:05:55:18 Army Corps of Engineers.
11:05:58:03 Rick Simonetta.
11:05:59:06 [ APPLAUSE ]
11:06:01:12 >> Thank you, Elaine, Mr. Chairman, members of Council,
11:06:04:03 I don't know how to bring this up, but I guess we're
11:06:07:09 going to see a presentation here.

11:06:08:12 Thank you for the opportunity to be with you.
11:06:11:27 There are a lot of similarities between the Tampa
11:06:14:18 metropolitan area and the Phoenix metropolitan area.
11:06:17:27 While I haven't spent my entire career in the Phoenix
11:06:21:00 area, it has been interesting to draw some of the
11:06:23:19 comparisons.
11:06:25:09 And I think you'll find that a lot of what we have done
11:06:30:01 are options for this region as you look to the future.
11:06:34:06 Part of our problem is the same problem that this
11:06:37:12 region faces, and that is that you are one of the high
11:06:39:27 growth areas in our country.
11:06:42:12 In the case of Phoenix, Phoenix is now the fifth
11:06:46:06 largest city in the country, but our metropolitan area
11:06:48:15 is the 16th largest metropolitan area, but our
11:06:51:07 transit system is only the 26th largest transit
11:06:54:06 system.
11:06:54:13 So just as you are catching up, we are catching up as
11:06:57:21 well.
11:06:58:01 Our population is anticipated to double in the next 30
11:07:03:06 years.
11:07:03:18 We're adding over a hundred thousand people to the
11:07:07:06 region every year.
11:07:08:01 When the people come, the automobiles come with them
11:07:11:16 and the vehicle miles travel always grows faster than
11:07:15:09 the population.

11:07:16:07 So the challenge from a mobility standpoint and the
11:07:19:25 quality-of-life standpoint is how do you not only
11:07:21:21 absorb the people, but the vehicles and the travel
11:07:25:06 that's going to occur.
11:07:26:15 This is in an area in Mesa, Arizona.
11:07:29:28 This is a ranch that looked like this 20 years ago.
11:07:36:03 Here's what it looks like today.
11:07:37:13 I'm sure you know some areas that have developed that
11:07:41:15 intensely and that quickly.
11:07:42:18 And that's really what part of our problem is.
11:07:45:00 This is an interesting slide and we should spend a few
11:07:47:09 minutes on it.
11:07:48:01 It really tracks the history of transit initiatives,
11:07:52:06 tax referenda for transit support in the valley.
11:07:56:09 In 1985, there was an initiative that went before the
11:07:59:00 voters, but it was a freeway program.
11:08:01:00 It was a half-cent sales tax.
11:08:03:03 It did pass.
11:08:04:18 Phoenix finally acknowledged in 1985 that it needed
11:08:08:07 freeways.
11:08:08:27 The Phoenix area is very conservative.
11:08:10:28 You remember senator Barry Goldwater, there is still a
11:08:15:16 tremendous influence by that kind of conservative
11:08:17:18 thinking.
11:08:18:00 And I wasn't there, but I understand that interstate 10

11:08:21:28 had about a 15-mile break in it between Los Angeles and
11:08:25:03 the next connection, and that was because Phoenix
11:08:27:15 didn't want federal money in their area, and so the
11:08:30:22 interstate system really didn't pass through Phoenix
11:08:34:03 until sometime later probably in the early '80s.
11:08:37:00 So by 1985, the community was ready to build a freeway
11:08:41:00 system, and that's what that tax initiative did.
11:08:43:07 The other thing it did, though, it created a regional
11:08:46:24 transportation authority for the first time.
11:08:48:24 It didn't provide any funding for that organization,
11:08:51:12 but it basically said you should put a plan together,
11:08:54:03 go to the voters, get them to support it through a tax
11:08:57:13 initiative and then build the plan.
11:08:59:22 So in 1989, they accomplished what they set out to do.
11:09:04:09 That was to put a plan before the voters.
11:09:05:27 It was called VAL-tran.
11:09:09:25 It was a very ambitious plan.
11:09:11:09 It would have been a half-cent sales tax forever.
11:09:13:01 It had something like a hundred miles of rail
11:09:15:00 associated with it along with a lot of bus
11:09:16:21 improvements.
11:09:17:21 It didn't pass.
11:09:19:00 It failed by 3-1, which is a very strong statement by
11:09:22:21 the public that they were not ready to support public
11:09:24:28 transportation on a regional level.

11:09:27:00 That same organization came back in '94, five years
11:09:32:06 later, with a blended plan that had some street
11:09:35:01 improvements and it didn't focus on rail quite as much
11:09:38:15 because rail has always been sort of a negative in
11:09:41:15 Phoenix and a lot of developing cities.
11:09:43:15 I don't know what the sentiment is here, but I can tell
11:09:45:21 you in places like Dallas and Denver and Salt Lake City
11:09:50:00 and Portland, it has not been a popular idea until it
11:09:55:03 is built and becomes successful and then everyone says
11:09:58:18 how fast can we build the extensions?
11:10:00:15 They went back in '94 and it failed again.
11:10:04:15 So it was pretty clear that we were not going to have a
11:10:07:00 regional transit tax.
11:10:08:03 In looking at the details of the election results in
11:10:13:12 both of those elections, it was noted that the city of
11:10:16:21 Tempe, which is a small, dense, landlocked city, where
11:10:22:27 Arizona State University is housed and really
11:10:27:07 progressive community that was ready to embrace an
11:10:29:24 improved bus system and also be part of a light rail
11:10:32:09 system on a regional level.
11:10:33:21 It was noted that had those taxes only been voted on in
11:10:36:15 Tempe, they would have passed in both cases.
11:10:39:12 In '96, Tempe went to the voters and actually passed a
11:10:43:09 permanent half-cent transit sales tax and basically
11:10:46:03 said to the rest of the region come on now, it's your

11:10:49:03 turn.
11:10:49:15 We did it, you need to join us and we'll have a
11:10:51:19 regional transit system, including a rail component.
11:10:54:03 Phoenix went to the voters and so did Scottsdale the
11:10:57:12 next year.
11:10:58:00 Scottsdale wasn't ready.
11:10:59:12 They lost pretty big. They weren't really talking much
11:11:03:12 about rail.
11:11:03:27 That's also a conservative community that wasn't
11:11:07:04 willing to embrace a transit initiative at the time.
11:11:09:04 But in Phoenix, believe it or not, this initiative
11:11:13:06 failed by 122 votes.
11:11:15:22 And there were a lot of different circumstances around
11:11:18:06 that and speculation on why it mailed and so on.
11:11:21:10 But it was a real setback for Phoenix, and it wasn't
11:11:24:16 until four years later -- sorry, three years later in
11:11:27:22 2000 that they were actually able to come back with a
11:11:30:10 tax initiative.
11:11:32:12 In the meantime, chandler failed in '98.
11:11:38:04 Mesa passed a quality of life tax in '99.
11:11:40:24 Following Phoenix's success, we also had a successful
11:11:44:06 initiative in Glendale.
11:11:45:13 And so we had four cities that over the course of those
11:11:48:28 years had passed a dedicated local tax and they were
11:11:52:00 starting to talk seriously about getting together

11:11:54:21 through a joint development arrangement and building a
11:11:58:15 starter light rail system.
11:12:00:00 In 2004, that 1985 tax was about to expire.
11:12:07:19 It was a 20-year tax, that regional tax that built the
11:12:10:25 freeways at the top, it was ready for renewal.
11:12:14:04 And this time, the communities said it can't just be a
11:12:18:00 freeway tax.
11:12:19:04 It needs to be a tax for all modes of transportation,
11:12:23:22 including public transportation, including buses and
11:12:26:09 rail.
11:12:26:24 And so proposition 400 in the year 2004 was the first
11:12:32:00 regional initiative since 1994, and this one was a very
11:12:37:09 creative approach, and I want to talk a little bit
11:12:39:18 about it, so you'll understand how they got the
11:12:42:15 success.
11:12:42:27 So what was needed, obviously, was a way to address
11:12:49:00 mobility needs and approach that would include
11:12:52:24 governments and embrace the business community as well
11:12:54:21 as involve the public.
11:12:55:28 And so it really was about looking at transportation in
11:12:59:03 a multimodal format.
11:13:02:00 There was a transit component, streets component,
11:13:04:06 freeway component as well as other improvements for
11:13:08:18 bicycles and other technology improvements.
11:13:10:21 The plan was really going to be pretty complex.

11:13:14:06 About a third of the money was going to go to transit.
11:13:16:18 The rest of it was going to go to streets and highways.
11:13:19:27 And it included freeway funding to help supplement the
11:13:28:10 plan that was initiated back in 1985.
11:13:30:28 And it also started to deal with some of the
11:13:33:15 maintenance and noise mitigation challenges that were
11:13:36:12 there.
11:13:36:27 Arterial street funding was also pretty much what the
11:13:41:12 cities thought they needed.
11:13:42:19 And then local bus funding was to expand upon some of
11:13:48:16 the improvements made as part of the local tax
11:13:50:24 initiatives back in the years immediately preceding
11:13:54:13 this.
11:13:54:24 The bus rapid transit and light rail funding included a
11:13:59:19 number of BRT lines as well as 27 additional miles of
11:14:03:21 light rail.
11:14:04:12 That's in addition to the 30 miles that was tied to
11:14:07:24 those city initiatives that were passed earlier.
11:14:11:00 Of course, the service level was going to seven day a
11:14:15:09 week service level and it was going to be pretty
11:14:17:15 extensive so people would have mobility choices.
11:14:19:27 An important factor in this conservative political
11:14:23:07 environment was accountability.
11:14:25:27 No one trusted that any of these ideas about building
11:14:31:06 transit in particular were founded in sound business

11:14:36:04 decisions, sound financial decisions, and so the
11:14:39:18 conservative legislature in Arizona insisted that there
11:14:42:21 be accountability.
11:14:43:28 And accountability for every one of the components, but
11:14:46:03 the focus is really going to be on transit and in
11:14:49:09 particular on light rail.
11:14:50:22 So every five years, there's going to be an independent
11:14:53:03 performance audit conducted by the auditor general's
11:14:56:15 office of the state.
11:14:58:24 And they also put into effect the fact that no changes
11:15:02:07 could be made to the plan without going through a very
11:15:05:03 rigorous, extensive process.
11:15:07:16 So changes would not be encouraged, although it's
11:15:09:24 possible to make changes.
11:15:11:07 And then they wanted this life cycle program which was
11:15:14:10 just a way to look every year at how you are doing
11:15:18:00 financially, and what adjustments you need to make so
11:15:20:03 that when the 20 years is done, the plan is built.
11:15:23:27 Public credibility was really to be retained, and that
11:15:26:21 was one of the ways of doing it.
11:15:28:03 So some of the benefits of the plan, because it was
11:15:30:27 really a multimodal plan, it really was going to deal
11:15:35:07 with congestion.
11:15:36:12 It was going to boost a lot of economic benefits, and
11:15:39:09 it was also going to create lots of jobs.

11:15:41:25 And so it was promoted on that basis.
11:15:45:03 It did bring together the business community, local
11:15:48:04 government, the state legislature as well as local
11:15:51:00 citizens.
11:15:51:22 That was an important factor.
11:15:53:21 It also created a transportation policy committee at
11:15:57:12 the regional level that included most of those
11:16:00:27 individuals that were part of the coalition going
11:16:03:06 forward and gave them a strong say in what was going to
11:16:06:18 happen.
11:16:07:04 There were lots of organizations within the community,
11:16:10:00 and I was just at a round table stakeholder's round
11:16:14:16 table meeting earlier today and some of the same kinds
11:16:17:12 of organizations are engaged right now in the dialogue
11:16:20:13 and, of course, you've got to be open to the public.
11:16:22:13 You must listen to the public, and you really need to
11:16:25:12 reflect their ideas if you're going to win their
11:16:28:01 support when it comes time to go to the polls.
11:16:30:06 And, of course, we needed approval from various
11:16:32:12 regional as well as even the state transportation
11:16:34:21 board, and that was obtained as well.
11:16:36:24 And so the outcome of the election in November of 2004
11:16:41:09 was a 57% margin of victory.
11:16:44:19 And we finally had a regional tax that included money
11:16:49:15 for public transportation.

11:16:50:21 And so this is what the light rail component of that or
11:16:54:28 what we call the high capacity component of that looks
11:16:57:13 like.
11:16:57:21 The red line is what we're building now, the 20-mile
11:17:01:15 starter line.
11:17:02:24 And the other extensions with dates on them is really
11:17:06:10 what's part of the plan.
11:17:07:10 Now, let me talk briefly about the fact that prior to
11:17:11:27 2002, back when all these city taxes were passing there
11:17:16:09 really wasn't much in the way of regional governance.
11:17:19:04 We did have the MPO, the Maricopa association of
11:17:22:06 government, which was responsible for planning
11:17:26:01 transportation in the area, and also working closely to
11:17:28:25 make sure that that freeway plan was built.
11:17:32:01 The creation of that Valley Metro RPTA was there, but
11:17:38:03 they were really pretty weak.
11:17:40:10 They had no money.
11:17:40:25 They were basically trying to do transit planning.
11:17:42:25 And then there were the cities.
11:17:43:25 But the cities collectively weren't really working that
11:17:46:27 harmoniously to create any kind of regional governance.
11:17:50:03 They were sort of working on their own.
11:17:52:00 At the same time, our light rail plans were beginning
11:17:54:24 to take shape and the federal transit administration
11:17:57:21 was starting to look favorably upon this plan and this

11:18:00:21 20-mile starter line and said, essentially, you know,
11:18:04:03 we'd like to fund it.
11:18:05:03 We'd like to provide you with a 50% federal match, but
11:18:08:09 we don't see an organization anywhere in the region
11:18:11:04 that has the financial and technical capability to do
11:18:15:00 this kind of a project.
11:18:16:19 So the four cities got together, the four cities that
11:18:20:06 had passed those taxes, Phoenix, Tempe, Mesa and
11:18:23:09 Glendale and they created Valley Metro Rail, Inc., in
11:18:27:03 2002 -- an Arizona not-for-profit organization,
11:18:32:00 corporation, specifically to plan, design, construct,
11:18:34:16 and operate the metro light rail system, including any
11:18:37:10 future extensions.
11:18:38:15 Our membership has been an open membership, and the
11:18:41:12 four members have now expanded.
11:18:43:21 There's one not even on here it's so recent and that is
11:18:46:09 the city of Scottsdale.
11:18:47:12 We now have chandler, Peoria and Scottsdale on our
11:18:50:19 governing board.
11:18:51:15 They have no dedicated local taxes to build light rail,
11:18:54:12 but they are interested in sitting at the table and
11:18:57:01 being part of the dialogue.
11:18:58:06 And it's an open organization.
11:19:00:18 We will probably continue to grow, and it just says
11:19:04:18 something about, I think, what the future is going to

11:19:06:21 hold.
11:19:07:01 So our organization is pretty complex with all those
11:19:10:03 cities providing input with both the Board of Directors
11:19:14:22 and our government.
11:19:16:18 Our cities are not strong Mayor cities.
11:19:21:07 They are managed by city managers.
11:19:23:10 And so the city managers have been able to get together
11:19:26:25 and provide some sublevel of governance to the -- to
11:19:32:21 these regional organizations and then they make
11:19:35:07 recommendations to the actual policies boards, which
11:19:37:27 are the elected officials.
11:19:39:09 That's kind of the complex structure we operate in.
11:19:42:09 Within the organization, we have the various functional
11:19:44:24 units necessary to carry on the response, carry out the
11:19:47:21 responsibilities of the organization.
11:19:48:21 So, moving on to, this is the 20-mile starter line.
11:19:53:18 It has 28 stations.
11:19:55:03 That's what all those little White dots are.
11:19:57:01 It runs in Phoenix.
11:19:58:12 It runs through Tempe, and then goes about a mile into
11:20:01:12 the city of Mesa.
11:20:02:22 It passes through the core of Phoenix and the core of
11:20:07:15 Tempe.
11:20:08:03 It passes through the heart of Arizona State
11:20:10:13 University.

11:20:12:10 It is adjacent to the sky harbor international airport,
11:20:15:27 and there will be an automated train, Peoplemover type
11:20:18:21 system that will be built in the next couple of years.
11:20:21:01 There will be free bus service from day one when the
11:20:24:15 rail opens, but eventually we'll have an automated
11:20:27:09 Peoplemover system similar to -- I don't know if you've
11:20:30:03 ever been to the San Francisco airport, but Bart
11:20:32:27 connects to the San Francisco airport through a similar
11:20:35:18 kind of technology.
11:20:36:18 You can see Central Avenue, which is the main
11:20:38:27 north-south arterial in Phoenix, and you can see all
11:20:43:15 those White dots.
11:20:45:24 That's a pretty densely developed area.
11:20:47:22 The development of the Phoenix area in the past has not
11:20:51:16 been in the core of the central business district.
11:20:53:24 It has been along major corridors like that.
11:20:56:24 And so those many stations are really going to be
11:21:01:15 serving existing high density and I'll talk a little
11:21:05:10 bit more about what's happening to future high density.
11:21:08:06 So why did we select this corridor?
11:21:10:15 We wanted federal funding, for one, and in order to get
11:21:14:09 federal funding, you've got to achieve a number of
11:21:16:24 standards.
11:21:17:06 One of them is a cost-effective standard.
11:21:19:19 And that cost-effective standard is driven mostly by

11:21:23:03 how well you can control the capital costs of building
11:21:25:21 the system and how many people you're going to carry to
11:21:28:12 offset both those capital costs and the operating cost.
11:21:32:06 And so it's more complex than that, but it was simply
11:21:36:09 where will you carry the most people and where can you
11:21:39:03 build this line in the simplest manner possible?
11:21:41:28 And so for all of the reasons you see here, we selected
11:21:45:12 the starter line at the 20-mile corridor.
11:21:48:15 And one of the things that light rail has the
11:21:51:04 capability of doing, which was important in this
11:21:52:27 corridor was it can carry a lot of people.
11:21:56:09 One of our rail cars operating alone will carry 200
11:22:00:00 passengers.
11:22:00:15 That's the equivalent of five full city buses or 180
11:22:04:04 automobiles given the average auto occupancy in the
11:22:06:27 Phoenix area.
11:22:07:25 We have the ability to hook three cars together into a
11:22:10:09 three-car train.
11:22:11:21 So you can triple those numbers, and that's how many
11:22:15:00 people we can move through the corridor with just one
11:22:19:13 trip.
11:22:19:21 And so it moves lots of people.
11:22:22:21 It has the ability to develop an area where you won't
11:22:26:06 destroy the character of the community by having to
11:22:28:18 widen streets and build freeways.

11:22:30:27 It also generates the kind of development that is
11:22:33:18 really consistent with large numbers of people riding
11:22:35:27 these kinds of vehicles.
11:22:37:12 And, of course, it's electric.
11:22:38:27 It's nonpolluting.
11:22:40:00 It does all the things you want it to do
11:22:42:21 environmentally, but that's kind of the rationale for
11:22:45:12 light rail.
11:22:46:00 This is what our vehicles look like.
11:22:47:25 We have 50 of them.
11:22:50:15 They are all on property going through a final
11:22:54:03 assembly.
11:22:55:01 We're on about vehicle number -- let's see, 34 right
11:22:58:24 now.
11:22:59:06 So we'll be done with that in about two months.
11:23:02:15 We're scheduled to open in December of 2008.
11:23:04:25 So everything is where it should be.
11:23:07:09 The community weighed in heavily on a number of design
11:23:12:13 components of the system, including the way the
11:23:14:06 vehicles should look.
11:23:15:16 They wanted them, of course, to look modern and sleek.
11:23:18:04 They wanted them to have low floor entries so we can be
11:23:21:24 fully compatible with ADA and allowing bicycles and
11:23:25:06 strollers and other assistant devices to be able to
11:23:30:00 access the cars very simply.

11:23:32:01 We wanted to accommodate bicycles.
11:23:33:18 It's become a very, very important mode of
11:23:37:00 transportation.
11:23:37:12 We probably have the largest bike-bus marriage of any
11:23:43:06 transit system in the country.
11:23:44:18 So these were all important things, but we also had to
11:23:47:13 recognize that we were operating in climate conditions
11:23:51:03 that in the summertime can get to 115 or above.
11:23:53:27 And so we needed robust air conditioning units and
11:23:56:19 tinted windows.
11:23:57:22 As well.
11:23:59:12 We also wanted a safe and secure system.
11:24:01:27 So we tried to incorporate every technology known at
11:24:07:01 the time.
11:24:07:09 We didn't like the idea of having a railcar that had a
11:24:11:21 coupler on the front and on the back.
11:24:13:28 There is actually no front and back but on either end.
11:24:16:21 So our couplers are now behind a shock-absorbing bumper
11:24:21:15 system, so the car looks much, much neater.
11:24:24:03 Actually, if we ever were to have a collision instead
11:24:27:12 of having a coupler penetrate whatever you run into, we
11:24:32:00 would deflect whatever we would run into and hopefully
11:24:34:18 minimize any damage to both the railcar and anything
11:24:38:12 that was encountered.
11:24:40:03 We also, of course, wanted to make sure that all the

11:24:42:15 various safety features were incorporated that were
11:24:45:28 state of the art.
11:24:47:09 Security is also important.
11:24:48:12 We know no one will ride a transit system or light rail
11:24:52:06 system regardless of how fancy it is or how expensive
11:24:55:09 it is, if it's not perceived to be secure.
11:24:57:07 And so we have continuous monitoring, security cameras
11:25:02:10 at all of our stations covering every aspect of that
11:25:06:00 station.
11:25:06:07 We have them inside the trains, outside the trains, and
11:25:10:28 have well-lit stations and, of course, the roving
11:25:14:03 security patrol as well as the station design that is
11:25:16:24 very open, right in the heart of our urban area,
11:25:19:21 vehicles, pedestrians, and others will be passing those
11:25:22:24 stations at all times.
11:25:24:01 So if there's anything that goes on, it's not going to
11:25:26:22 be able to hide from public view.
11:25:29:10 Our operations and maintenance center is very
11:25:32:18 important.
11:25:33:00 Of course, it's the heart of the operation.
11:25:34:25 It was dedicated about 15 months ago.
11:25:37:19 And we have been doing trained testing out of this for
11:25:41:12 several times -- several months.
11:25:43:06 This is an interesting slide.
11:25:44:27 If you've ever been in Phoenix in August, you'll maybe

11:25:48:15 be able to relate to this.
11:25:50:18 The sun is so intense that people will find a palm tree
11:25:54:12 or a telephone pole or something to stand behind as
11:25:57:09 they are waiting for the traffic signal to give them
11:25:59:21 access to cross the street.
11:26:00:27 They'll line up behind one another, because the
11:26:04:03 temperature may be ten degrees cooler.
11:26:06:04 And that's getting you out of the oven.
11:26:08:18 So maybe in my hometown of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, or
11:26:13:00 here in Tampa where the sun may not be that intense,
11:26:16:06 this kind of a canopy station structure would work.
11:26:20:00 But look where the shade is at 8:00 in the morning or
11:26:23:18 at 5:00 in the afternoon, it's not where the people
11:26:26:01 are.
11:26:26:21 It's where the vehicles are.
11:26:28:12 So our designers along with a design team, a special
11:26:32:10 design team from Arizona State University got together
11:26:34:21 and came up with this school screen station design
11:26:39:04 which will provide at least 40% shade somewhere on that
11:26:43:12 station.
11:26:44:00 It's vertical shading, devices, horizontal shading
11:26:47:09 devices.
11:26:48:06 These angular sail-like features that are above.
11:26:53:09 We will actually have growing plants, greenery that
11:26:56:01 will cool things down at each station.

11:26:58:03 And we will have chilled filtered water at each of the
11:27:02:25 stations.
11:27:03:06 The first light rail system in the world to actually
11:27:05:13 have chilled water.
11:27:06:27 So we're really trying to address this.
11:27:09:18 The materials are not heat absorbing materials, so it's
11:27:15:15 going to be interesting to maintain these on an ongoing
11:27:19:00 basis, but they look great.
11:27:20:06 And I think they'll function very well.
11:27:21:24 Also, each station needs to reflect the character of
11:27:24:22 the community that it is located in.
11:27:26:21 And so we have artwork at each of the stations.
11:27:30:18 You can see that we have a Sandra Day O'Connor piece of
11:27:34:22 artwork.
11:27:35:07 We also have the station located in front of our county
11:27:38:00 courthouse.
11:27:38:10 So you can get that's where that one goes.
11:27:41:00 Each station had its own neighborhood group and it's
11:27:45:04 own artist to try to do something with that station to
11:27:49:18 create community character so it doesn't look like any
11:27:52:09 other station.
11:27:52:24 It does represent what the community is about.
11:27:55:00 We cross a town-like bridge going into downtown Tempe,
11:27:59:09 and that bridge itself is an art feature.
11:28:02:16 The design that was used allowed us to put a

11:28:05:09 computerized light system into the base of it.
11:28:07:25 And we can do wonderful things with this, especially at
11:28:11:06 night.
11:28:11:18 This is also a festive area.
11:28:13:28 There's a Beach Park located right there in Tempe.
11:28:16:12 When the trains go across the bridge at night, the
11:28:19:06 light beam will follow them across.
11:28:21:06 It's what we call the "wow" feature.
11:28:23:27 Construction is 85% complete.
11:28:26:03 And yesterday, we laid the last piece of track.
11:28:29:15 So we now have continuous rail from both end of lines.
11:28:33:16 This is looking at downtown, not downtown Tempe, but
11:28:37:00 right next to sun devil stadium where the Arizona sun
11:28:41:27 devils play their football games.
11:28:45:27 It is going to be a very busy place on a number of
11:28:48:13 Saturdays during the year.
11:28:49:13 Our grand opening is in late December, and it's going
11:28:54:07 to be a large community event.
11:28:57:19 We'll probably have 28 parties going on at 28 different
11:29:01:03 stations.
11:29:01:18 We anticipate over 200,000 people riding the trains
11:29:06:03 free that weekend.
11:29:07:16 It's the weekend between Christmas and new year's.
11:29:11:04 So everyone is being encouraged to stay in Phoenix and
11:29:14:10 invite all of your family from other parts of the

11:29:16:24 country to come to Arizona during that time and join us
11:29:19:15 in the celebration.
11:29:20:15 And everyone's spirits are really being raised by that.
11:29:24:12 So this is what is on our plate for the next 20 years.
11:29:28:19 While it's nice to think about opening the first
11:29:31:00 20-mile line, we really have to build the system.
11:29:34:16 So the system is really, all those other lines and you
11:29:38:09 can see some dates out there.
11:29:40:09 Here's what it looks like if you put it into an actual
11:29:43:07 project schedule.
11:29:43:27 During any given year, we know exactly where we should
11:29:46:12 be in terms of planning, designing, constructing, or
11:29:49:24 operating these systems.
11:29:52:00 Public credibility is extremely important, especially
11:29:55:03 if we want this tax to be renewed in 20 years, which we
11:29:58:07 do.
11:29:58:18 We'd like the transit share to be greater.
11:30:00:22 The way to do that is to build credibility.
11:30:03:06 So as an organization and certainly as the head of that
11:30:06:15 organization, the challenge is for us to be -- to gain
11:30:09:00 that credibility, to earn that credibility, and the way
11:30:11:24 you do that is to deliver on voter promises.
11:30:14:22 Voter expectations.
11:30:16:15 So, one of the things that happens when you build rail
11:30:20:00 is you create a permanent infrastructure investment.

11:30:25:15 And that permanent infrastructure investment has the
11:30:27:21 potential to generate economic development.
11:30:29:27 We have all heard about transit oriented development.
11:30:33:03 It is at work in a big way in Phoenix, much to my
11:30:36:24 surprise, and as you heard earlier, my educational
11:30:39:24 background is in city planning, and so I've always had
11:30:43:03 the connection between land use and transportation, and
11:30:45:06 I've seen it work in other places, either where I've
11:30:48:25 worked or where I've stayed on top of their
11:30:51:15 development, but I've never seen it work like it has
11:30:55:12 here.
11:30:55:21 This slide is really pretty telling.
11:30:58:13 In the earlier days, when Portland was built back in
11:31:02:24 the '80s, it would generally take about five years
11:31:05:15 for the cost of the light rail system to be reflected
11:31:10:09 in economic development.
11:31:11:12 If you spent a billion dollars on a light rail system
11:31:14:27 in Portland back in the mid '80s, in five years, you
11:31:18:07 should have a billion dollars' worth of economic
11:31:20:21 development along that alignment.
11:31:22:06 A decade later, when Dallas opened in the late '96 time
11:31:28:04 frame, it was down to about three years.
11:31:30:15 Well, we are -- these numbers are a year before
11:31:34:18 opening, and our $1.4 billion now has 6 billion
11:31:38:18 dollars' worth of economic development that is

11:31:42:15 committed, underway, open, and so on.
11:31:44:25 So the pent-up demand for this kind of urban
11:31:48:21 development in an area like Phoenix has been there.
11:31:51:12 People may have known about it.
11:31:53:00 They never knew the extent of it.
11:31:55:27 And these folks have really stepped up to the plate.
11:31:58:18 And when we talk to them about why they have made the
11:32:01:10 decision, it's because of the permanency of rail.
11:32:04:21 The fact that they see a billion dollar investment
11:32:07:21 that's going to be supplemented by other billion
11:32:12:24 dollars of investment and they see it being done in a
11:32:15:12 way that will make permanent station locations, so the
11:32:18:18 areas around stations have become very, very valuable.
11:32:21:03 And so it's not just local investors.
11:32:25:22 It's investors from around the world.
11:32:27:15 And so this has been very huge.
11:32:30:09 So there have been a number -- there are a few public
11:32:33:25 facilities that have gone in, an expansion of the
11:32:35:22 convention center, a new hotel supported by the city of
11:32:38:28 Phoenix as well as a transgenomic research center.
11:32:44:21 The Art Museum has done some tremendous expansion.
11:32:48:03 We've got a lot of new private residential development
11:32:51:21 with various types of ownership levels.
11:32:54:09 A lot of them are high end but a lot of them are
11:32:56:00 market, are low-cost units.

11:33:00:10 We've got an investment by Arizona State University who
11:33:03:19 has decided to put in a downtown Phoenix campus that
11:33:06:21 will eventually have 15,000 students, will generate
11:33:10:10 significant ridership because the president of the
11:33:12:16 university expects students to be able to go from
11:33:14:27 campus to campus in terms of their daily class
11:33:17:28 schedule.
11:33:18:09 And, of course, a number of other corporate-type
11:33:21:09 developments that have just been a very, very positive
11:33:26:09 thing for our cities.
11:33:28:15 So I leave you with just a couple of parting thoughts.
11:33:32:18 I know that from what I heard this morning, the region
11:33:36:18 considers itself to be behind where you would like to
11:33:40:03 be.
11:33:40:18 We in the Phoenix area still consider ourselves to be
11:33:43:06 behind where we would like to be.
11:33:44:19 But I think that's a good thing.
11:33:47:09 It creates a bit of anxiety that sometimes causes
11:33:53:06 people to go into action.
11:33:55:28 As you saw from some of the slides I showed you earlier
11:34:01:18 with regard to proposition 400, political will
11:34:05:00 galvanized solidly around a multimodal tax initiative.
11:34:08:27 And that's because there really wasn't a lot of other
11:34:12:27 funding sources to do what we needed to have done both
11:34:15:12 with freeways, with streets, roads, as well as with

11:34:18:13 transit.
11:34:18:28 And, you know, designing a master plan that people can
11:34:25:09 understand and that can really reflect some kind of a
11:34:29:21 vision for the future is going to be important,
11:34:31:15 especially in transit, because transit has got a lot of
11:34:34:04 catching up to do.
11:34:35:00 So you need to be creative in that, and you need to be
11:34:37:18 very communicative.
11:34:39:27 And, of course, you have to market and sell that plan
11:34:42:10 to the community.
11:34:43:00 The best way to do that is to involve the community in
11:34:44:28 the process.
11:34:45:18 Give them ownership before it becomes something that is
11:34:47:24 hard and fast so that they'll see it, look at it and
11:34:50:25 say, oh, yeah, I had something to say about that.
11:34:53:16 Therefore I'm on board with it.
11:34:55:01 Upgrade the local transit system.
11:35:00:06 It's certainly important.
11:35:02:06 People will see the potential for success if you start
11:35:04:13 to show success and what you can do with what you've
11:35:08:13 got today.
11:35:09:03 I think in the case of our prop 400 which took place in
11:35:15:24 2004, once those local cities, Tempe, Phoenix,
11:35:19:00 Glendale, Mesa, once they passed their taxes a few
11:35:22:07 years earlier, they didn't just wait to spend their

11:35:25:07 money on light rail.
11:35:26:18 They started spending their money immediately on new
11:35:28:07 buses, new transit centers, park-and-ride lots, and
11:35:31:13 improve service.
11:35:32:06 Believe it or not, the city of Phoenix didn't have
11:35:34:09 Sunday service until after that transit 2000 tax
11:35:37:03 passed.
11:35:37:21 The fifth largest city in the country.
11:35:39:21 So it's incredible.
11:35:43:00 So really showing that transit does work in the
11:35:47:12 community really I think gives some of the naysayers a
11:35:51:24 question about whether or not this is the right
11:35:53:19 thing -- this is going to be a big failure and it gives
11:35:57:01 the logical transit advocates and supporters something
11:36:00:24 to use as evidence that this investment is not going to
11:36:04:06 be in vain.
11:36:06:03 With that, I'd be happy to try to answer any questions.
11:36:09:04 But thank you very much for your attention.
11:36:11:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:36:11:25 Very good presentation.
11:36:12:21 Again, if we can make sure each Council person gets a
11:36:16:22 copy of the presentation, we would appreciate that very
11:36:18:25 much.
11:36:19:24 Councilman John Dingfelder, then councilwoman Mary
11:36:22:28 Mulhern and Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

11:36:25:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you for joining us today.
11:36:30:24 A lot of interesting concepts and ideas to absorb.
11:36:33:15 Couple of questions.
11:36:37:24 Federal funding.
11:36:38:22 You mentioned $1.4 billion, was that the total
11:36:43:27 investment more or less?
11:36:45:01 >> That's the total cost of the project.
11:36:47:00 The federal share was established pretty early on and
11:36:51:19 got fixed at 50% of a smaller number.
11:36:54:03 So the federal share is really $587.2 billion -- or
11:36:57:24 million dollars.
11:36:58:13 So it ends up being about 41 to 42 percent of the
11:37:03:16 total.
11:37:03:27 It ends up being about 47%, if you eliminated the
11:37:09:10 finance charges.
11:37:10:09 But we also have C.M.A.Q. funding that has gone into
11:37:12:22 that.
11:37:15:19 Our goal has been to have 50% federal funding, and we
11:37:19:24 will achieve that through a combination of FTA new
11:37:22:09 start money as well as CMAQ.
11:37:25:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a few more questions, if I
11:37:26:27 could.
11:37:27:12 It appears that most of this is at grade.
11:37:31:21 Is that true?
11:37:31:21 Are there some elevated sections?

11:37:33:24 >> No, completely at grade.
11:37:34:24 It is for the most part completely what is called in
11:37:37:25 street, meaning that it really runs in major arterials.
11:37:41:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So you needed to rebuild, for
11:37:42:27 example, that Central Avenue, you needed to basically
11:37:45:25 rebuild that street.
11:37:47:16 >> Well, the policy question was -- the policy decision
11:37:51:03 was made that we would not take away street capacity.
11:37:55:27 So it meant that we would be acquiring property.
11:37:58:21 One of the significant costs of this project was
11:38:01:00 acquiring property so that we could, in fact, maintain
11:38:04:25 the same lanes of traffic after light rail.
11:38:08:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Must have been a challenge and a big
11:38:09:28 part of the money, I guess.
11:38:12:00 >> Well, it was about 150 million out of the overall
11:38:15:09 budget for right-of-way.
11:38:16:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The last question in regard to
11:38:19:06 governance, our region has several MPOs.
11:38:27:24 We have one for our county.
11:38:29:15 I think there's one over in Pinellas County.
11:38:33:03 I'm not sure, Pasco has one.
11:38:36:01 Like every county has their own MPO.
11:38:38:27 But now we've got this region.
11:38:42:00 And I'm just wondering, you mentioned I think the
11:38:45:06 Maricopa board of governments or Council of

11:38:47:22 governments, something like that, that serves as your
11:38:49:15 MPO, and is that across county lines, how big a region
11:38:56:06 is that?
11:38:56:24 >> Good question, and it was also raised in an earlier
11:39:00:21 meeting.
11:39:01:01 The counties -- it's not that they are not important,
11:39:04:21 but the cities really seem to be more intense in terms
11:39:09:19 of running government.
11:39:11:24 There are only seven counties in the entire state of
11:39:14:09 Arizona.
11:39:14:18 And so they are huge.
11:39:16:01 And so we have county supervisors and a county manager,
11:39:20:09 but within Maricopa county, which is the county around
11:39:23:04 the Phoenix metro area, and it pretty much embraces the
11:39:26:22 whole metro area.
11:39:29:12 There is starting to be development in a county south
11:39:31:28 of it.
11:39:32:13 For the most part, it's been a real blessing in a sense
11:39:35:06 because you only had one county referendum to cover the
11:39:38:15 entire metropolitan area.
11:39:40:06 So all of those cities have been part of the governance
11:39:43:12 of the Maricopa association of government MAG, the MPO.
11:39:48:07 So they have been talking to one another about
11:39:50:18 transportation issues for many years.
11:39:52:09 So coming together and coalescing around a regional

11:39:56:06 plan that included all modes was not that difficult
11:39:59:28 when, in fact, the people had been, I think, respecting
11:40:03:28 the needs of the region from a transportation
11:40:06:04 standpoint all along.
11:40:07:15 And so building that political consensus while it's
11:40:12:00 always going to be a challenge I think was a little
11:40:14:16 easier there.
11:40:15:01 And I do realize that you've got seven counties that
11:40:17:15 are now trying to look at a regional framework, and I
11:40:21:09 think six MPOs out of the seven counties.
11:40:24:06 So bringing all that together, managing that herd of
11:40:28:09 cats is going to be a challenge.
11:40:31:16 And, you know, I'm not sure, I don't understand the
11:40:35:21 local politics well enough to know that you have the
11:40:38:00 opportunity to win something in terms of a ballot
11:40:42:13 initiative in that broad an area or whether you have to
11:40:44:24 bite it off, eat the elephant one bite at a time.
11:40:48:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We are still trying to sort out the
11:40:50:03 politics ourselves.
11:40:51:06 Thank you.
11:40:56:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
11:40:56:24 I was thinking along the same lines of Mr. Dingfelder,
11:40:59:25 but I'm looking at your handout here.
11:41:02:00 So your population in that county looks like almost a
11:41:09:13 billion people.

11:41:10:01 >> No, it's around, it's about four million right now.
11:41:13:24 The entire state --
11:41:15:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, it's a hundred thousand.
11:41:17:01 Sorry.
11:41:17:15 Population is four million in that area of Maricopa,
11:41:22:21 your county.
11:41:23:09 >> It's around four million now.
11:41:24:27 It will go to eight million by 2040.
11:41:27:22 >>MARY MULHERN: What I'm trying to picture, because of
11:41:29:07 the way our -- I don't know how much of a preview you
11:41:33:00 saw of our regional transit area, is a lot -- it looks

11:41:41:01 like it's pretty urbanized at least where your first
11:41:44:10 line is going, right?
11:41:45:15 Is there desert in between it?
11:41:49:28 >> Well, the area has developed extensively over the
11:41:53:15 last 30, 35 years.
11:41:54:27 A lot of people continue to talk about when it was a
11:41:57:16 hundred thousand people and so on.
11:41:58:28 And it's grown very, very fast.
11:42:00:24 And it's grown in a very sprawling manner.
11:42:03:07 There has been some density, and our first line has
11:42:08:09 really capitalized on where that density has existed.
11:42:11:28 So where the employment centers are, you know, where
11:42:14:01 the major sports activities are, where the educational
11:42:18:00 institutions are.

11:42:18:27 Where the cultural centers are.
11:42:20:28 But I say this because it's really important.
11:42:25:04 20 miles of anything is not a system.
11:42:27:06 The first 20 miles of freeways was not a system.
11:42:30:06 And who did that serve?
11:42:32:00 It served a lot of interests, obviously, but it didn't
11:42:35:18 really serve the broad regional interest.
11:42:37:01 And until we get 60- or 100-mile system in place, way
11:42:41:18 beyond my career lifetime, we won't have a system.
11:42:44:10 And so we've got a great start.
11:42:46:27 And wherever you start, it's important you start where
11:42:51:07 it can be successful.
11:42:52:24 Because that success will become contagious, and you'll
11:42:56:06 really end up developing support for doing it faster
11:42:59:03 and quicker.
11:43:01:15 >>MARY MULHERN: When you showed us the time line of all
11:43:07:13 the referendums and whether they passed or not, to give
11:43:10:03 you an idea, I don't think we've had a referendum yet
11:43:12:13 in Hillsborough County, have we?
11:43:17:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, we have not had a referendum.
11:43:19:27 >>MARY MULHERN: We haven't had a referendum because our
11:43:21:15 county, one of those seven counties, needs to vote to
11:43:24:21 put it on the ballot.
11:43:25:25 And it looked like that was my question.
11:43:27:18 It looked like each of those participating cities had

11:43:31:06 that taxing authority that they could put -- they could
11:43:34:21 put a referendum for transit on the ballot.
11:43:38:00 >> They could, and the ones that needed it, did.
11:43:40:21 But there are several of them out there at this point
11:43:46:00 are not certain exactly what they are going to need so
11:43:49:09 they are trying to get it more from the regional tax.
11:43:55:04 >>MARY MULHERN: This is all light rail.
11:43:56:19 You don't have any commuter rail -- do you have plans
11:43:59:10 for commuter?
11:44:00:03 >> Our existing plan does not call for commuter rail.
11:44:03:25 What happens in these things, even though we have a
11:44:06:13 20-year plan, there are people right now that are
11:44:09:04 looking at a new plan.
11:44:10:15 They are looking at a separate plan that will start in
11:44:13:12 two years, and it will dovetail with the plan already
11:44:18:16 voted upon.
11:44:19:12 And they are now starting to look at commuter rail.
11:44:23:06 The state legislature and the governor's office are
11:44:25:16 actually interested in intercity rail between Phoenix
11:44:29:01 and Tucson.
11:44:30:15 So the cost of those haven't been sorted out.
11:44:32:18 We don't have a lot of, you know, existing rail lines.
11:44:35:25 The ones we have are very, very busy freight lines
11:44:39:15 taking lots and lots of goods out of the long beach
11:44:44:15 port across the southwest into the rest of the country.

11:44:47:03 The freight lines have basically said we don't have the
11:44:52:00 ability to share track with you, all those cooperative
11:44:54:15 arrangements you've heard about in different parts of
11:44:56:21 the country, we're not sure we'll be able to do here.
11:44:59:09 But there's support from the governor and support from
11:45:01:15 the legislature, and usually that will break through
11:45:04:10 some of those challenges.
11:45:12:00 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a couple of curious questions.
11:45:13:28 When you show the bumpers over the couplers, are the
11:45:17:15 couplers just underneath it or do they open up or how
11:45:21:00 does that work?
11:45:22:03 >> The bumper goes forward and then elevates and then
11:45:25:07 locks into place.
11:45:26:03 That's the way you couple the cars together.
11:45:28:13 There's also an energy absorption system and it works
11:45:33:21 whether the bumper is down or whether the coupler is
11:45:36:27 there.
11:45:37:15 So if we had a train of three cars, of course, the
11:45:42:13 front car would have their bumper down, would have that
11:45:46:06 energy absorption but also occur throughout the rest of
11:45:48:28 the train.
11:45:50:06 >>MARY MULHERN: And then I had a thought, well, first
11:45:51:24 of all, your temperature is about 10 degrees higher
11:45:56:04 than our average temperature, 92 for six months out of
11:45:59:10 the year, but you have dry heat.

11:46:01:06 We have wet heat, but we have the same problems with
11:46:05:24 shade for our stations, but I was looking at the
11:46:10:24 fabulous looking shaded cover that you had and all I
11:46:15:28 could think was those should be solar panels that could
11:46:19:10 generate the air conditioning for the stop.
11:46:23:09 But when we build ours, we'll have that.
11:46:25:12 >> There you go.
11:46:25:27 That will push that technology one step further.
11:46:30:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Shoot.
11:46:31:21 There was one other thing I was going to ask but I
11:46:38:06 can't remember.
11:46:38:06 Thank you so much.
11:46:38:07 We're going to try to catch up with you.
11:46:39:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Your presentation is just what we
11:46:41:09 needed to hear.
11:46:42:09 I wonder if in your visit to our area if you're able to
11:46:45:09 share it with any other government agencies or
11:46:47:18 entities.
11:46:48:03 >> Well, I'm meeting with TBARTA tomorrow.
11:46:50:13 I met with the Mayor's roundtable stakeholders
11:46:53:19 roundtable meeting.
11:46:55:16 I am meeting with the Tampa Bay Partnership this
11:47:02:18 afternoon.
11:47:03:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Great.
11:47:03:22 That's good use of your time.

11:47:05:15 >> So they are taking full advantage of my day and a
11:47:08:15 half here.
11:47:10:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Maybe you can pop over to the county
11:47:12:19 commission this afternoon, too.
11:47:13:22 Quickly, did the state bring anything to the table
11:47:18:13 financially for you?
11:47:19:15 >> No.
11:47:20:04 The state has not --
11:47:23:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: They told you you had to have all
11:47:26:00 these audits but didn't give you any money.
11:47:28:12 >> That's right.
11:47:28:22 The state enables and they try to --
11:47:33:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Lastly, did you all participate in
11:47:34:10 the Olympics, and did that bring federal money?
11:47:37:01 >> Well, that was when I was in Atlanta.
11:47:39:01 I was there during the decade of the '90s.
11:47:42:06 It did bring federal money.
11:47:44:01 We built an extension that was on the books but it got
11:47:50:12 accelerated so that it would be done prior to the
11:47:52:22 Olympics.
11:47:53:00 The federal government participated in that.
11:47:54:15 We wanted to demonstrate clean air commitment, and so
11:47:58:18 we were -- we had a plan to convert to CNG and build
11:48:02:27 the CNG facility, the federal government built that for
11:48:06:10 us and helped us by CNG buses.

11:48:10:06 We also were able to borrow buses from a number of
11:48:14:28 other communities.
11:48:15:21 Of course, the way the federal transit administration
11:48:18:01 set that up is that we weren't going to be borrowing
11:48:22:06 old buses.
11:48:22:24 We would be borrowing the buses right off the
11:48:25:24 production line.
11:48:26:18 Every city that had ordered buses for like a year
11:48:29:21 around the Olympics, they were held at the
11:48:31:25 manufacturers and they weren't sent to the property
11:48:35:10 where they would be operated.
11:48:36:19 They were sent to us in Atlanta.
11:48:37:27 So the federal government really did help us
11:48:40:16 tremendously.
11:48:40:27 They also pushed a number of technology issues so that
11:48:44:03 we could have GPS tracking of our vehicles and
11:48:47:12 automated stop announcements.
11:48:49:27 Back in '96, this was pushing the technology envelope.
11:48:53:25 But, yeah, I felt very close to the Clinton
11:48:57:07 administration during that time.
11:48:58:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That was why Tampa made a bid for
11:49:00:21 the 2012 Olympics was because we knew if we got the
11:49:03:24 Olympics we'd get a lot of federal transportation
11:49:05:27 money.
11:49:06:07 That was the whole impetus behind our Olympic bid.

11:49:09:24 Unfortunately, we didn't get selected.
11:49:11:22 >> Salt Lake City was also beneficiary of that.
11:49:15:10 You may hear from Salt Lake City sometime because they
11:49:17:13 have a great story to tell.
11:49:24:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Again, excellent presentation.
11:49:26:03 Our last transportation task force meeting over at the
11:49:29:07 county center, Ed Crawford, you may want to come
11:49:32:00 forward, what was the gentleman's name from Washington?
11:49:34:13 He's a guy I think we also need to bring because he
11:49:37:19 gave us on a lot of insight on the change in terms of
11:49:41:21 going out for federal dollars.
11:49:43:04 And that whole implication as to who the next president
11:49:49:24 will be determines what goes toward mass transit as
11:49:53:03 opposed to roads and all that.
11:49:55:09 He gave us a lot of insight and some of the barriers.
11:49:59:06 >> Ed Crawford with Hart.
11:50:00:06 It was Jeff Booth.
11:50:01:13 He's with Holland and Knight in Washington.
11:50:04:15 He's head of the new start working group.
11:50:06:16 And I think Rick can probably speak as well about Jeff
11:50:09:15 as I can.
11:50:10:07 He did give a very good presentation to the
11:50:13:04 transportation task force and did talk about the change
11:50:15:06 in legislation and what's likely to happen in
11:50:18:00 Washington.

11:50:18:15 The cranked down quickly so there will be a lot of
11:50:25:22 questions made.
11:50:26:07 I think the point Rick made in his last slide, it all
11:50:30:10 has to derive from the locals up and that's when you
11:50:33:06 get the commitment from the Feds down.
11:50:35:04 That's kind of where we've been.
11:50:37:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Part of my intent I talked about, one,
11:50:40:24 try to get us meeting with the county commission
11:50:43:03 because I think in terms of the seven counties, again,
11:50:46:27 Hillsborough County is far more ahead than the rest of
11:50:49:00 them because you already had a plan going back from
11:50:51:28 '99, 2003, we just could never get it on the ballot.
11:50:56:21 Part of that plan was to roll back, I think the
11:51:04:25 property tax so we can use more of the half-cent sales
11:51:09:07 tax toward Hartline and for the light rail.
11:51:12:27 So all that was in place and it comprises 26 miles of
11:51:16:28 rail going from the airport all the way to university
11:51:20:21 of south Florida.
11:51:22:12 And so you have that plan.
11:51:24:06 In fact, again, we spent $12 million on the
11:51:27:06 environmental impact study.
11:51:28:27 So all that's there.
11:51:30:03 And I'm saying that what we need to do is take that off
11:51:33:00 the shelf, dust it off and begin to work with that so
11:51:35:15 that we are in position to move forward regardless of

11:51:38:21 what TBARTA does.
11:51:40:12 We want to work with them, but right now, Hillsborough
11:51:43:00 County is ahead in terms of mass transit.
11:51:46:24 It's just a matter of us to again work with the county
11:51:49:19 commission and see if there's an opportunity to get
11:51:52:00 something on the ballot or to look at some way of using
11:51:55:12 existing funding that we have that could become a match
11:51:58:21 with the fed.
11:51:59:18 But, again, you need to keep in mind that the
11:52:03:12 environment is changing.
11:52:04:25 And depends on who will become president, he's saying
11:52:08:10 it could change even more so.
11:52:10:00 I'm just making us aware of all of this information.
11:52:16:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Since you brought up politics, I have
11:52:19:06 this question I wanted to ask you.
11:52:20:18 It's political, but it has to do with you're talking
11:52:24:16 about it being a Barry Goldwater state and being so
11:52:28:12 conservative, what is the -- do you know, like, the
11:52:31:21 voter -- even in Phoenix, say, what the breakdown,
11:52:35:12 democratic, republican is?
11:52:39:09 >> No, I don't want to know that.
11:52:42:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Is it heavily republican would you
11:52:43:21 think?
11:52:44:06 >> Oh, yeah, certainly -- I mean, if you look at the
11:52:48:06 legislature, the legislature is at least two-thirds

11:52:52:27 republican.
11:52:53:04 If you look at the Mayors, they are at least two-thirds
11:52:56:10 republican.
11:52:56:18 Same with City Council members when they have to
11:52:58:18 declare, they don't really have to in some cases, but
11:53:01:18 it is very conservative.
11:53:03:06 >>MARY MULHERN: But that's important to us because
11:53:05:07 since it's elected officials that need to decide to put
11:53:09:12 this on the ballot and their fear is always if their
11:53:16:18 constituents are going to reelect them.
11:53:20:03 If it works in Phoenix -- we have about 50/50 here
11:53:24:00 registration.
11:53:24:28 >> There's been a lot written, especially by a guy
11:53:29:01 named Paul Warwick who is in Washington,
11:53:34:01 Mr. Conservative.
11:53:35:09 He's written a number of papers that the American
11:53:39:04 Public Transportation Association has utilized.
11:53:42:25 Because he really talks about why a conservative should
11:53:45:10 view a transit investment as the right investment.
11:53:48:19 So it's kind of transit really does relate to
11:53:52:07 conservative thinking and conservative viewpoints.
11:53:55:06 And it really does a great job of, I think, really
11:54:03:00 putting away some of those ideas that have been around
11:54:05:28 there forever that really don't make sense.
11:54:10:00 >>MARY MULHERN: It's the fiscal conservatives we need

11:54:12:03 to focus on.
11:54:13:12 One other question, how much of your multimodal plan is
11:54:17:09 BRT?
11:54:18:09 What, like, percentage of dollars in.
11:54:22:09 >> You know, there is a slide in there about that.
11:54:26:01 You could figure it out.
11:54:27:00 It's that pie chart.
11:54:28:22 But I think there are five BRT lines.
11:54:34:04 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm interested because when you were
11:54:35:21 talking about the transit oriented development and the
11:54:40:06 investment on those transit corridors, it's the
11:54:43:24 permanency of the line.
11:54:45:13 And I think that's important for us to keep in mind
11:54:47:19 when we're making those choices.
11:54:50:16 But if you're putting in a bus rapid transit line, is
11:54:57:03 that something -- was that something that gave that
11:55:01:15 confidence.
11:55:02:07 Has that worked?
11:55:03:18 Has that created any kind of development?
11:55:06:12 >> But BRT in the U.S. is still pretty new.
11:55:09:03 And where it has existed, it's not generated the kind
11:55:12:00 of levels of economic development.
11:55:15:15 But the tradeoffs are important to certain communities.
11:55:18:15 Maybe they are not interested in the economic
11:55:20:06 development.

11:55:20:18 They are interested in moving a lot more people at a
11:55:23:09 lower cost and having a little bit more flexibility.
11:55:26:06 And there's always that thought that you can upgrade
11:55:29:15 BRT to a fixed guideway rail system for an additional
11:55:35:09 cost at some point.
11:55:36:09 But the truth of the matter is, that huge economic
11:55:39:03 development that I talked about that has occurred along
11:55:41:18 our light rail line is because of the permanence of
11:55:44:15 rail and the permanent location of those stations.
11:55:49:06 >>MARY MULHERN: We're going to talk about our
11:55:51:07 comprehensive plan next.
11:55:52:07 That's the next thing on our agenda, and we're trying
11:55:54:28 to work with land use and transportation planning at
11:55:59:00 the same time.
11:55:59:22 In order to do this, did you have to change your land
11:56:04:21 use regulations to encourage this?
11:56:07:18 >> Yeah, each city did what they call transit
11:56:13:01 development overlays, TOD overlays, where they took
11:56:17:12 certain areas they thought were potentially right for
11:56:20:01 transit oriented development.
11:56:21:12 And, you know, would change the floor area ratios or
11:56:25:00 the parking requirements.
11:56:26:27 And things like that, so that you really would give
11:56:29:19 developers the flexibility to do something different in
11:56:33:21 that area.

11:56:34:25 >>MARY MULHERN: And that was happening -- was that
11:56:36:13 happening before or in conjunction with planning the
11:56:40:21 lines?
11:56:40:28 >> Yeah.
11:56:44:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you again very much for your
11:56:45:28 presentation.
11:56:46:27 Excellent presentation.
11:56:48:15 And we need to hear from the public.
11:56:50:06 And address the issue of how we want to proceed on this
11:56:53:27 next item.
11:56:55:13 It is now about four minutes till 12.
11:57:00:10 So we need to address how to handle the last workshop.
11:57:09:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My suggestion would be we bring up

11:57:11:06 the Planning Commission conversation at 1:30 after we
11:57:13:16 break for lunch and push back the special discussion
11:57:15:24 meeting on historic preservation part of the comp plan.
11:57:19:12 That would be my recommendation, Mr. Chairman.
11:57:22:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:57:23:16 Are you going to have a quorum?
11:57:25:00 I know I had another commitment this afternoon.
11:57:31:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, among the other people here,
11:57:33:06 are you planning to be back at 1:30?
11:57:36:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, that's fine then.
11:57:47:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman, could we morph our
11:57:50:06 conversation about the comp plan into part of the

11:57:53:00 special discussion so we don't have to have a quorum?
11:57:56:07 >>RAY CHIARAMONTE: Just so you know, it's about a 15
11:57:58:00 minute, I think I can do it in 15 minutes unless you
11:58:01:00 have a lot of questions.
11:58:01:25 I can do it at 1:30, I can do it whenever you want.
11:58:05:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Why don't we hear from the public on
11:58:08:00 this -- on the mass transportation, and then we'll give
11:58:16:19 ray the 15 minutes he needs.
11:58:18:27 I have another commitment this afternoon.
11:58:20:12 So public comment at this time.
11:58:22:13 Anyone from the public want to address Council on this
11:58:26:12 workshop?
11:58:26:21 All right.
11:58:28:10 Seeing none, then, ray, why don't you come.
11:58:33:03 >>RAY CHIARAMONTE: Okay.
11:58:33:24 While we are setting up the Powerpoint, I want to say
11:58:37:03 amen to everything from Phoenix.
11:58:39:13 This is what we're trying to do to our plan, the
11:58:41:21 policies, the overlay district, everything.
11:58:43:21 I think Phoenix is a great model for us to look at as
11:58:48:07 Salt Lake City when you hear about that.
11:58:50:00 So we're right on board.
11:58:51:15 My father always told me to learn from other people's
11:58:54:06 mistakes.
11:58:54:21 We don't have to have five referendums that fail if we

11:58:57:06 do this right the first time.
11:58:58:15 That being said, what I want to spend time today is to
11:59:01:27 remind you a little bit of our schedule.
11:59:05:00 Remember, pretty much June 26th is the end of the
11:59:08:18 road for transmitting this plan.
11:59:10:06 I want to let you know that my staff, we will run
11:59:13:06 ourselves ragged if we have to meet with you
11:59:15:19 individually, do whatever we have to do to give you a
11:59:18:00 comfort level with what's being proposed.
11:59:20:10 Because we need to move on this, and it is certainly a
11:59:23:18 serious matter.
11:59:24:09 What I wanted to do today is go through the plan and
11:59:27:15 talk about how it's organized.
11:59:29:10 I also want to make sure all of you have chapter -- or
11:59:32:12 the third draft of it and that you're not still looking
11:59:35:00 at draft number two.
11:59:36:00 The third draft in the blue cover.
11:59:40:00 Forget the other stuff.
11:59:46:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: According to our rules, we have to take
11:59:47:22 a vote if you want to continue the board meeting.
11:59:51:03 According to our rules, you have to take a vote, right?
11:59:54:09 You have to recess for lunch unless you waive the
12:00:00:00 rules.
12:00:00:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to continue for 20 more
12:00:02:15 minutes.

12:00:03:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved that we continue.
12:00:04:28 All let it be known by aye.
12:00:07:15 Opposes.
12:00:08:24 All right, so moved.
12:00:11:12 >>RAY CHIARAMONTE: Great.
12:00:11:27 What I wanted to do again, I wanted to remind you,
12:00:14:27 remember, it's the third iteration you need to look at.
12:00:17:27 Forget the second one.
12:00:18:27 The third one is what to concentrate on.
12:00:20:15 We're working on a fourth one, but that's more of a
12:00:23:00 detailed one.
12:00:23:18 The third one is more of the important one.
12:00:26:00 I want to go through the plan, talk about how it's
12:00:28:06 organized, give you a little sample of the policies so
12:00:30:12 you just understand how it's put together.
12:00:32:21 Certainly, again, the onus is going to be on you to
12:00:35:12 look at the actual document and there's no way that no
12:00:38:21 matter how I present you'll want to listen to me go
12:00:41:04 through 500 pages of policies.
12:00:42:27 You'll have to go to those areas you're interested in
12:00:45:25 and come up with the questions and give us specific
12:00:48:09 concerns that you have.
12:00:49:12 The first chapter really sets the framework for the
12:00:52:00 plan.
12:00:52:12 It's called livability and choice.

12:00:55:01 It has the livable city vision, collective community
12:00:58:24 values that we learned from our study circles.
12:01:01:04 It deals with the growth assumptions we're basing the
12:01:04:10 plan on, the benefits of growth and the challenges of
12:01:06:21 growth to our community, how we manage that growth, the
12:01:09:12 demographic change, doing more with less, economic
12:01:12:15 change, capitalizing on our diversity, responding to
12:01:17:12 environmental challenges, sustainability, how to get to
12:01:19:16 2025.
12:01:20:27 And the whole plan organization and details on how to
12:01:23:25 use the plan.
12:01:24:18 That's what's in chapter one.
12:01:26:15 Chapter two, again, deals with growth management.
12:01:30:24 The closest element of your old plan that would fit
12:01:33:04 into this would probably be the land use element.
12:01:35:00 It is combined into chapter two.
12:01:38:07 This is where we identify the five planning districts
12:01:41:09 like the heritage district Westshore, university.
12:01:44:21 We decided not to call the rest of the city just a
12:01:47:15 sustainable.
12:01:48:00 We're going to call it north side and south side.
12:01:50:15 And as a way to group the city into functionally
12:01:54:24 related areas.
12:01:55:24 Building our assets, that's the next part, recognizing
12:01:59:00 the assets we have and bringing the value of those

12:02:01:06 assets into the decision-making process.
12:02:03:06 Next, would be strengthening our neighborhoods.
12:02:06:28 That would recognize neighborhoods as a fundamental
12:02:08:22 building block of the city.
12:02:10:00 The importance of a vibrant central city area making
12:02:13:06 downtown alive, a transportation hub, shopping
12:02:16:09 district, Riverwalk, our premier neighborhood.
12:02:18:24 Recognizing our place in the region.
12:02:21:18 Tampa has a regional role, not just Tampa's role, but a
12:02:24:24 whole regional role as the center of the Tampa Bay
12:02:27:09 region.
12:02:27:24 Building our infrastructure foundation, recognizes that
12:02:30:18 change will follow infrastructure and how to plan for
12:02:33:28 that infrastructure accordingly.
12:02:36:00 And economic prosperity, building a livable city and
12:02:39:01 supporting the economic engines that keep us
12:02:41:25 economically diverse and prosperous.
12:02:44:18 Give you an example of objectives and policies that
12:02:46:24 would support that, one objective would be to designate
12:02:48:28 the five planning districts that I named before.
12:02:51:15 Policies might be to recognize the heritage district as
12:02:53:21 a primary urban core, civic and cultural center.
12:02:57:04 Another policy, recognize and build upon the Westshore
12:02:59:25 district as the city's largest suburban employment and
12:03:02:19 lifestyle district because of its unique combination of

12:03:05:18 office uses, shopping, sporting venues, airport and
12:03:08:06 other assets.
12:03:09:03 Those are examples of the kind of policies you'll see
12:03:11:15 to support that.
12:03:12:15 Chapter three deals with the city form.
12:03:15:09 The city form is described in this chapter.
12:03:18:13 The historic development patterns and a discussion of
12:03:21:06 the characters is an all-new narrative explaining its
12:03:25:01 importance in the livable city.
12:03:26:21 Urban design and the eight characteristics of livable
12:03:29:03 cities which are economic opportunity, sense of place
12:03:31:21 and community, choice of lifestyle, mobility options,
12:03:35:24 safety, mix of uses, healthy open spaces is all part of
12:03:38:27 the urban design.
12:03:40:10 City form components, again, identifying the business
12:03:43:19 centers, the redevelopment areas along our arterials,
12:03:46:06 which we call mixed use corridor villages, urban
12:03:49:16 villages, which are places like Hyde Park or Davis
12:03:52:00 Islands, stable residential neighborhoods and our
12:03:55:10 transit stations.
12:03:56:15 Then it goes into describing the three historical
12:03:58:24 development he patterns, preworld War II, post
12:04:01:16 World War II and contemporary.
12:04:04:09 Four types of neighborhoods are urban, suburban,
12:04:06:12 contemporary, and rural.

12:04:07:24 Connections between city form using design open space,
12:04:11:12 activity center and aesthetics to link to different
12:04:14:15 parts of the city form.
12:04:15:21 Again, building upon our assets and this is the chapter
12:04:19:10 that you would have described your future land use
12:04:21:16 categories and the changes therein.
12:04:24:24 Giving you an example of objectives and policies, to
12:04:27:09 give you a taste of what a policy might look like,
12:04:29:24 policy would be to incorporate urban design principles
12:04:32:15 into new development patterns to achieve a higher
12:04:34:21 concentration of density and more diverse mix of
12:04:37:00 housing employment and transportation options in
12:04:39:18 identified areas of the city.
12:04:40:18 Promote densities, mixes of uses, transportation
12:04:43:22 improvements and support walking and the use of public
12:04:46:21 transportation.
12:04:47:06 These are the areas that you, obviously, will need to
12:04:50:22 read.
12:04:51:00 There are many more policies.
12:04:52:18 I'm just kind of giving you a flavor of what they might
12:04:55:06 be.
12:04:55:18 Moving to chapter four.
12:04:57:09 That's building sustainable neighborhoods.
12:04:59:06 This deals with housing, land use and single-family
12:05:04:00 neighborhoods, multifamily neighborhoods, regulatory

12:05:07:24 type policies to protect and enhance those areas.
12:05:11:06 Mixed income neighborhoods, policies promoting this in
12:05:15:16 and around downtown, and along transit lines, transit
12:05:16:27 oriented development, as our speaker spoke about
12:05:19:21 before, as a strategy to provide more affordable
12:05:22:06 housing.
12:05:22:18 Minority populated low and moderate income
12:05:26:25 neighborhoods and emphasis on how to provide good
12:05:29:03 housing, including infill.
12:05:30:16 Public housing, housing and families, green housing, as
12:05:32:27 you talked about earlier today with your green
12:05:34:24 ordinance.
12:05:35:00 And neighborhood leadership, working to bring together
12:05:38:15 the home developer and neighborhoods in creating the
12:05:42:18 kind of neighborhoods we want.
12:05:43:24 New things include -- and I heard you discuss this
12:05:46:15 before -- the idea of tree canopy and trees being part
12:05:49:25 of the infrastructure of the city, an expanded list of
12:05:52:21 tools to encourage private provision of open space,
12:05:55:12 including transfer development rights, accessible and
12:05:58:04 ADA compliance and public schools and facilities.
12:06:01:01 That's where your public school part that you recently
12:06:03:27 heard and adopted in the comprehensive plan will be.
12:06:07:06 Give you an idea of policies in that area.
12:06:09:12 One policy might be to preserve the character of

12:06:11:21 single-family residential areas and discourage the
12:06:14:15 demolition of single-family residents and displacement
12:06:17:27 of residents in a way that encourages rehabilitation,
12:06:20:07 provides housing opportunities throughout the city, the
12:06:22:21 character of single-family areas includes use,
12:06:24:16 development and density characteristics.
12:06:26:18 Again, a number of other policies along those lines.
12:06:29:21 Chapter 4, again, dealing with sustainable
12:06:34:12 neighborhoods.
12:06:34:27 This creates the background to create thriving and
12:06:38:04 diverse neighborhoods, the importance of neighborhoods
12:06:42:00 as the basic building block of the city.
12:06:43:21 How to preserve neighborhood's distinctiveness,
12:06:47:18 identity and livability.
12:06:48:25 Transition areas, compatible development.
12:06:51:12 Neighborhoods that promote walking, biking, transit use
12:06:54:03 as we discussed.
12:06:55:12 Mixed use centers build upon each neighborhood's
12:06:58:09 assets.
12:06:58:24 Neighborhood economic development, create and grow
12:07:01:03 neighborhood based businesses that enhance the vitality
12:07:03:21 of the neighborhoods.
12:07:04:15 Engage neighborhoods in collaboration to address issues
12:07:07:06 and plan for the future.
12:07:08:12 Community planning, incorporate those past community

12:07:12:07 planning efforts and build upon them and go forward.
12:07:15:00 Children, again, city is a good place to raise
12:07:19:24 children.
12:07:20:12 Children mobility, safe passage to school.
12:07:22:25 Diversity of the city as seen through children.
12:07:25:12 Children in art.
12:07:26:04 Giving children a voice in our future.
12:07:27:19 Appreciation of diverse cultures and partnering with
12:07:29:22 the School Board, caring for our environment.
12:07:32:06 Policies that you would find that would implement
12:07:35:09 those, an objective would be to strengthen the positive
12:07:37:27 attributes and distinctive character of each
12:07:40:25 neighborhood to help sustain Tampa as a healthy vital
12:07:44:00 city.
12:07:44:07 A policy might be strengthen the sense of place in each
12:07:47:06 neighborhood with adequate and well-designed public
12:07:49:09 realm facilities such as branch libraries, schools,
12:07:51:15 recreation centers, fire stations, neighborhood
12:07:53:15 businesses, and retail areas.
12:07:55:03 Again, whole list of policies like that to implement
12:07:58:01 the kind of things we're talking about.
12:08:00:04 Chapter 5, sustainable environment, this is where our
12:08:03:18 environmental elements come in, our coastal high-hazard
12:08:06:24 elements are included in here.
12:08:07:27 Dealing with issues like air quality, you may or may

12:08:10:21 not be aware that we're probably about to fall off of
12:08:13:16 the list of meeting our standards.
12:08:17:01 Again, we had a four-year respite where we did meet
12:08:20:01 them, but EPC is telling me that's not going to be much
12:08:23:21 longer at the rate we're going.
12:08:25:00 It deals with environmental areas like our coastal
12:08:28:18 areas, lakes, energy conservation, again, in green
12:08:32:28 building ideas, coastal high hazard area, post disaster
12:08:37:09 redevelopment, new guidelines that the state is
12:08:39:12 requiring on dealing with that.
12:08:41:15 And protecting water dependent and water-related uses.
12:08:45:15 Examples of policies in that area would be the city
12:08:49:27 will encourage by 2009 to explore creating incentives
12:08:52:24 for new homes, developments, and commercial buildings
12:08:56:00 to become certified under the U.S. green building
12:08:58:21 Council's leadership in energy and environmental
12:09:00:21 design, the LEED program or meet similar standards of
12:09:03:10 development.
12:09:03:25 That's an example of the type of policies you'll see in
12:09:06:09 that chapter.
12:09:06:28 Chapter 6, sustainable infrastructure, this is where
12:09:12:24 all of your infrastructure related elements have gone,
12:09:17:03 basically mobility, potable water, wastewater,
12:09:20:00 stormwater, solid waste and the capital improvements
12:09:22:10 element.

12:09:23:01 All those parts of your existing plan have gone into
12:09:25:12 this area.
12:09:26:00 It deals with things like BTCEA, as an example, our
12:09:32:19 transportation concurrency exception area, policies
12:09:34:21 like that, the mobility, which is a very important
12:09:37:24 policy in the new plan.
12:09:38:24 It places an increased emphasis on transit.
12:09:42:00 Again, a major policy initiative is to pursue a fixed
12:09:45:06 route rail system.
12:09:46:13 Part of this chapter works on strengthening the
12:09:48:24 policies that would support the city form needed to
12:09:51:15 make that work even better than it would now.
12:09:54:01 New things that TCEA has been revised to complement the
12:09:58:03 city policies, added to encourage development in the
12:10:01:07 major growth areas.
12:10:02:03 Policies to implement the strategic intermodal system.
12:10:04:28 The SIS system.
12:10:06:27 Provide a safe, convenient and bicycle and pedestrian
12:10:10:09 network and policies that preserve neighborhood
12:10:12:12 livability and protect the natural environment.
12:10:14:13 Examples would be to provide bicycle facilities to
12:10:18:00 retrofitting roadways not necessarily slated for
12:10:20:18 widening or resurfacing in accordance with the
12:10:23:18 priorities listed in the MPO's comprehensive bicycle
12:10:25:21 plan, these type of policies to make these things come

12:10:28:12 about.
12:10:28:22 Sustainable infrastructure in our potable water
12:10:32:04 element, new things including increase in the demand
12:10:34:18 for potable water of 12% is expected.
12:10:37:03 So we want to emphasize conservation products needed to
12:10:40:09 reduce that deficit, particularly improvement and
12:10:43:00 expansion of the reclaimed water system.
12:10:44:28 Stormwater almost, maintains the goal of providing
12:10:48:00 stormwater system while protects life and property but
12:10:50:28 adds a stronger emphasis on the quality of the
12:10:53:01 stormwater protection of the natural environment.
12:10:55:18 Solid waste element includes the solid waste ten-year
12:11:00:00 comprehensive plan that was recently adopted and will
12:11:01:21 be updated every three years to make sure that the
12:11:04:28 department is reaching its goals.
12:11:06:09 Reduce the quantity of generated waste using methods
12:11:10:09 such as pay-as-you-throw program for residential
12:11:14:13 collection and other ideas like that.
12:11:16:09 Public education programs about environmentally
12:11:17:27 friendly products.
12:11:18:18 Recycling, backyard composting, all of those issues
12:11:22:13 brought in.
12:11:23:16 Capital improvement element is updated to reflect state
12:11:26:12 law requirements and see fiscal standards.
12:11:28:15 And this reflects the need derived from other capital

12:11:31:16 facility elements.
12:11:32:12 Our wastewater element, new things include pay as you
12:11:36:24 grow, again, policies that require developers who
12:11:39:06 provide on-site or off-site improvements needed to
12:11:42:06 connect to city wastewater system when new projects are
12:11:44:15 proposed.
12:11:45:00 Policies also were required developers to construct or
12:11:47:24 share in the cost of wastewater infrastructure
12:11:49:27 improvements when adequate capacity in the current
12:11:52:00 system is not available.
12:11:53:06 Example of a policy from this area would be that the
12:11:57:07 city shall require developers who provide on-site and
12:12:00:06 off-site improvements needed to connect to the city, as
12:12:02:10 I said, policies of that nature.
12:12:04:09 Again, objective would be future development shall bear
12:12:07:21 a proportionate share of facility improvement costs
12:12:10:06 necessitated by the development in order to maintain
12:12:12:18 adopted level of service standards.
12:12:14:03 Those type of policies.
12:12:15:00 Chapter 7 is a new part of the plan.
12:12:18:10 It's called a vibrant economy, topical areas in this
12:12:22:00 plan, include greater leadership, improved
12:12:24:25 infrastructure, improved land use and support, building
12:12:27:24 partnerships with economic development organizations,
12:12:29:22 safety and security, and having reliable information to

12:12:32:24 support business development.
12:12:34:00 Examples of an objective would be Tampa business
12:12:38:03 community industry, have the land use designations,
12:12:40:27 community infrastructure and support services needed to
12:12:42:27 help them thrive and expand.
12:12:44:07 Policy would be a City of Tampa would be foster an
12:12:47:12 atmosphere of problem solving and ensure that
12:12:49:07 businesses have ready access to city officials if they
12:12:51:24 have concerns.
12:12:52:24 Work to improve regulatory climate for business,
12:12:56:09 periodically asking city staff tore business owners for
12:12:58:27 creative way to improve city regulations or suggest
12:13:01:06 more efficient ways to achieve city policies.
12:13:03:09 That's an example of the type of policies you'll see
12:13:05:27 there.
12:13:06:09 Chapter 8 is people shaping, changing, and growing our
12:13:09:21 city.
12:13:09:28 This is where the neighborhood element has landed in
12:13:13:03 this area.
12:13:14:09 Again, the whole idea of community Cassidy building
12:13:18:00 with partners with the city, neighborhood based groups,
12:13:21:01 again, the city is the orchestra leader working with
12:13:24:00 other groups to make things happening and multiplying
12:13:27:00 its power.
12:13:27:21 Intergovernmental coordination is in this area.


12:13:29:28 Example of an objective would be the city shall create
12:13:33:21 and formalize a community capacity building pilot
12:13:36:09 program within its current operations and test its
12:13:39:06 feasibility to be used as an ongoing basis.
12:13:42:19 Chapter 9 is the more details of the plan called plan
12:13:45:03 administration.
12:13:45:10 This is required legal status and implementation of the
12:13:47:24 plan.
12:13:48:21 It's a new topical area for the plan that includes the
12:13:50:27 process with criteria to promote city form and transit
12:13:54:21 issues and things like that.
12:13:56:04 That is an overview of the way the plan is organized.
12:13:59:06 Our existing elements do all fit into one or another of
12:14:03:00 these chapters.
12:14:04:03 We would be happy to answer questions that you have.
12:14:08:01 I think the next time we're going to go deeper into the
12:14:11:10 policies, the new policies and let you know what
12:14:15:09 changed there.
12:14:16:03 But, again, I have to say the onus is on you to
12:14:18:24 actually read this third draft that you have, and if
12:14:22:18 you have questions, again, my staff will meet you
12:14:26:28 anytime, anyplace, whatever we can do to help you
12:14:29:27 understand what's in the plan so we can get this done
12:14:31:15 on time.
12:14:34:07 >>JULIA COLE: Julia Cole, Legal Department.

12:14:37:04 I want to to reiterate what Mr. Chiaramonte said about
12:14:41:06 the schedule and time frame.
12:14:42:15 We are in a situation where we have an obligation
12:14:44:15 pursuant to Florida statutes to adopt this update to
12:14:47:12 our comprehensive plan and we are running against a
12:14:49:19 deadline.
12:14:49:27 The June 26th date is really a hard date because we
12:14:53:10 are obligated to adopt this plan by February, 2009.
12:14:57:25 We have exceeded the number of extensions we can
12:15:02:00 request.
12:15:02:21 Really, we are in a place where we have to get this
12:15:04:13 done.
12:15:04:24 I just want to reiterate that so that everybody
12:15:07:06 understands we are really -- this is really the time to
12:15:09:12 look at all of these issues and ask the questions that
12:15:11:22 you want to ask.
12:15:12:18 Thank you.
12:15:13:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder and then
12:15:15:28 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
12:15:17:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
12:15:17:15 Thanks, ray.
12:15:18:22 Our new interim MPO Executive Director.
12:15:25:09 Many hats you're wearing.
12:15:26:22 This last version I had is January 2008.
12:15:29:21 I started reading it and everybody told me not to

12:15:32:03 bother until we got a new version.
12:15:33:18 So now we're in April, April something or 'nother, 24.
12:15:38:28 So do you have new hard copies for us?
12:15:43:13 I have the January version.
12:15:48:03 And I'm looking -- I've been looking forward to getting
12:15:51:12 an April version.
12:15:52:24 So we have it or we're getting it?
12:15:57:01 >>RAY CHIARAMONTE: Well, you're supposed to have it.
12:15:58:15 If you don't have it, you're going to get it.
12:16:02:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All right.
12:16:03:09 We should read it thoroughly because that is the --
12:16:06:00 >>RAY CHIARAMONTE: That's close.
12:16:06:21 There are still going to be some changes, but they are
12:16:08:21 more -- they are not major.
12:16:10:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And Randy, if I could.
12:16:16:10 We've been getting your commentary.
12:16:18:19 We appreciate that.
12:16:20:00 On the TCEA, I recall, you know, how many years back
12:16:25:06 does this go, three, four years ago, counsel said we
12:16:30:22 needed to revisit the TCEA and you guys encouraged us
12:16:34:07 to wait until the comp plan.
12:16:35:22 So here we are.
12:16:36:25 I think you briefed us on it but I think I might have
12:16:43:09 missed that briefing.
12:16:44:04 If you did brief us, I missed it.

12:16:46:15 So just tell me where we are on the TCEA because
12:16:51:06 originally, I had been pushing extremely hard to pull
12:16:54:21 the TCEA back in certain geographic areas especially
12:16:58:25 and including south Tampa.
12:17:01:00 The roads are constrained in south Tampa.
12:17:03:00 We have nowhere to widen them, and, therefore, I
12:17:06:10 thought the TCEA was inapplicable in south Tampa.
12:17:10:03 Anyway, we hired a consultant.
12:17:11:24 I haven't seen the results of that -- and where are we?
12:17:17:06 What are we doing?
12:17:19:09 >> Randy Goers, community planning division.
12:17:23:21 Considering how much information I could talk about
12:17:26:25 about the TCEA, I'll be brief and allow you to ask
12:17:28:13 specifics.
12:17:28:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: By the way, people who are watching,
12:17:28:21 it's transportation concurrency exception area.
12:17:36:16 >> The original growth management act, this is
12:17:39:00 primarily for our viewers who don't understand the
12:17:41:24 exception area, requires that growth be planned and
12:17:48:06 timed with the provision of the public policies.
12:17:50:15 That's parks, sanitary sewers, wastewater and, of
12:17:52:12 course, transportation facilities.
12:17:53:18 Shortly after the implementation of growth management,
12:17:58:01 the state realized that there were external
12:18:01:06 implications of that policy.

12:18:03:15 That is, they could not meet their own requirements
12:18:05:18 along the interstate in terms of being able to build
12:18:07:25 enough interstate miles to allow development to
12:18:10:01 continue.
12:18:10:16 So that's when the state began looking at
12:18:13:10 transportation concurrency exception areas or
12:18:15:19 exceptions to concurrency, which would allow local
12:18:18:06 governments the ability to let the facilities go past
12:18:24:00 the required three years or let roads erode beyond
12:18:30:01 their level of service as way of preventing urban
12:18:34:27 sprawl.
12:18:35:12 Back 15 years ago, if you couldn't develop in the
12:18:37:18 urbanized areas because of concurrency issues, it was
12:18:40:06 easier, cheaper, faster to go to the outlying counties.
12:18:43:06 Since then, concurrency has been a very large struggle
12:18:45:27 for local governments all around the state.
12:18:48:13 There are at least 15 different ways that the state, 15
12:18:51:12 different opportunities that the state has allowed
12:18:55:28 local governments to exempt projects from concurrency
12:18:59:21 primarily because of the problems it creates for urban
12:19:01:25 areas.
12:19:02:06 In the outlying areas, concurrency is required, and
12:19:05:06 it's much easier to do when you have the Greenfield
12:19:07:24 development and you're putting projects in place with
12:19:10:03 large subdivisions.

12:19:11:10 When you're in the urban area and Tampa is probably one
12:19:13:21 of the -- we are in a situation where part of our city
12:19:19:24 is in a peninsula with only two or three ways out.
12:19:23:24 So you don't have traffic that can go in a variety of
12:19:27:03 different ways.
12:19:27:15 It can only be channeled through a few areas.
12:19:30:12 We're also in the center of large metropolitan region.
12:19:33:24 You've got people coming from St. Pete through Tampa
12:19:36:15 all the way through to Brandon.
12:19:38:18 So we're in this area where we're getting all the
12:19:41:15 traffic regardless of what we do internally.
12:19:43:27 During the comprehensive plan update, the TCEA was
12:19:48:25 looked at.
12:19:49:18 It has been modified.
12:19:51:06 Much of the work that the consultant has done is in two
12:19:55:24 places in the plan update.
12:19:57:15 Some of it is in the chapter of the sustainable
12:20:01:01 infrastructure chapter.
12:20:02:15 And some of it is in, I believe in the background
12:20:05:16 report that is online at the Planning Commission.
12:20:07:25 Briefly, the new requirements for transportation
12:20:12:12 concurrency exception area require that you have to
12:20:14:18 meet certain thresholds for vacant land and
12:20:18:21 density/intensity, wherever you designate it.
12:20:21:21 The consultant has shown that the city's TCEA does meet

12:20:25:00 that.
12:20:25:15 You have to show that you are -- if you have areas
12:20:28:18 designated for downtown revitalization, which we do,
12:20:32:06 that we have areas designated for urban revitalization
12:20:35:12 and the consultant has worked to show those areas.
12:20:38:22 And if you have other areas for infill.
12:20:41:09 Our city is completely, almost completely developed.
12:20:44:07 So it's basically the entire city is an infill
12:20:47:15 development area in terms of the kind of development
12:20:49:16 that we're going to see in the future.
12:20:51:15 Everything south of New Tampa.
12:20:54:27 The modifications to the TCEA are -- and I'm going to
12:20:59:24 be very general because the policies are very specific,
12:21:03:21 and I would encourage you to look at the mobility
12:21:06:28 chapter.
12:21:07:09 But generally, if you're in the downtown area, would
12:21:09:27 you pay an impact fee and move forward on your
12:21:13:06 development according to the downtown DRI and the other
12:21:16:16 requirements.
12:21:16:24 If you're in the urban redevelopment areas, and those
12:21:19:12 areas are smaller than those growth areas, they are
12:21:22:16 primarily the CRAs and the DRIs that exist, you
12:21:26:24 would pay your transportation impact fee, depending if
12:21:31:07 you're located on a transit corridor or off the transit
12:21:34:00 corridor, there might be some additional mitigation

12:21:36:16 that you'd have to do.
12:21:37:21 If you're in the infill area, the rest of the city, the
12:21:41:00 stabilized neighborhoods, you would have to mitigate.
12:21:43:27 You -- from the land use perspective, show that you are
12:21:47:10 comparable in the type of development looking for in
12:21:50:00 those areas.
12:21:50:19 If you're going to have any impacts to the
12:21:53:03 neighborhoods, you'll have to mitigate those impacts.
12:21:55:24 So we're looking for ways rather than exempting
12:21:58:19 development and saying go ahead, we'll worry about the
12:22:01:18 transportation impacts or mobility impacts later, we're
12:22:04:09 looking at ways of trying to reinforce the exceptions
12:22:07:18 around the form we're trying to create.
12:22:11:16 That's a very brief overview.
12:22:13:00 I don't know if it hits all of your questions.
12:22:15:12 Maybe in the next month we could have a more specific
12:22:18:21 workshop on that issue if you like.
12:22:20:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is the consultant still on staff?
12:22:22:15 >> He's actually here if you have a question for him.
12:22:25:10 But he is still on our staff.
12:22:27:09 Or still working with us.
12:22:29:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We're not scheduled for it today,
12:22:30:24 we're running out of time.
12:22:32:06 But it's an extremely important issue.
12:22:33:27 I was hoping that we would have had a separate

12:22:37:27 briefing.
12:22:38:12 I think we should have it and I think it should be part
12:22:42:10 of the public process.
12:22:43:06 Like I said, there are many folks in my district and
12:22:45:15 probably other districts around the city that have
12:22:48:12 great concerns about overbuilding their neighborhoods
12:22:53:22 without addressing the transportation issues.
12:22:55:15 For example, rattlesnake point.
12:22:57:19 You know, there's proposed 20,000 possible units or
12:23:01:00 something like that, 10, 20,000 units that can go out
12:23:04:19 on rattlesnake point, but we all know the potential
12:23:08:21 traffic concerns and problems that that could create.
12:23:11:00 >> It doesn't exempt those developments in the future
12:23:16:04 from mitigating their impacts.
12:23:18:07 That's the part about the TCEA we want to make sure
12:23:22:00 that is understood.
12:23:23:03 It doesn't exempt the development from mitigating
12:23:25:24 impacts.
12:23:26:09 It just exempts the timing of the impacts and possibly
12:23:29:03 what the road conditions are going to ultimately be.
12:23:32:07 May not be brought up to a level of service D or level
12:23:34:18 of service standard that we have adopted, and it might
12:23:38:18 be because the roads can't wide than much.
12:23:41:15 Part of this is about protecting the roadways and the
12:23:45:00 character of the neighborhoods.

12:23:46:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Our may workshop booked up now?
12:23:50:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's what I wanted to speak to.
12:23:52:12 >> We have an hour for the comp plan.
12:23:55:16 Can we use 15 minutes of that for TCEA or what?
12:23:59:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, Councilwoman Saul-Sena and then
12:24:03:19 councilwoman Mulhern.
12:24:06:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Which is on the 29th.
12:24:07:19 We have something, but Mr. Caetano wants to change it.
12:24:11:03 I'm saying the 29th, we should have a workshop just
12:24:15:09 on the comp plan, give ourselves three hours and really
12:24:18:21 dig in.
12:24:19:15 I think we have three hours' worth of conversation.
12:24:22:21 May 29th.
12:24:23:27 I would make a motion that we have a workshop solely on
12:24:27:27 the comp plan for three hours, just on comp plan.
12:24:33:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's not a workshop day, is it?
12:24:36:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
12:24:37:27 We have nothing scheduled for the 29th.
12:24:40:15 I'm suggesting that we have a workshop on the 29th
12:24:43:09 just on the comp plan, because it's one of our biggest
12:24:47:10 responsibilities as a Council.
12:24:48:24 It's very complex, and I think that we have that much
12:24:52:09 conversation to have.
12:24:53:01 And that way, Mr. Dingfelder, you don't have to have 15
12:24:56:07 minutes --

12:24:57:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What I suggest is that we take that up
12:24:59:09 when we have a full board.
12:25:00:22 We don't have that right now.
12:25:02:15 I would much rather us take that up when we have a full
12:25:05:10 board.
12:25:05:25 Councilwoman Mulhern.
12:25:10:25 >>MARY MULHERN: [not speaking into microphone]
12:25:14:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The 22nd at 9:00 for an hour.
12:25:18:15 >>MARY MULHERN: [microphone not on]
12:25:25:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Correct.
12:25:25:22 Extra day.
12:25:26:12 Councilman Caetano.
12:25:31:00 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Mr. Chiaramonte, on chapter seven,
12:25:34:00 you had mentioned that you were going to require
12:25:37:06 developers to connect to the sewer lines or wastewater
12:25:39:12 lines was it?
12:25:41:27 >>RAY CHIARAMONTE: Let me go to chapter seven here.
12:25:49:07 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Chapter 6.
12:25:50:06 Okay, is it possible to include in there sleeves for
12:25:53:09 reclaimed water?
12:25:56:12 >>RAY CHIARAMONTE: We can look at that.
12:25:57:19 There may be policies already dealing with reclaimed
12:26:00:18 water.
12:26:02:15 We can look at that.
12:26:03:25 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: I know they'll do that on Bruce B.

12:26:05:03 Downs when they remodel it.
12:26:07:27 >>RAY CHIARAMONTE: You're talking about putting --
12:26:11:09 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Just a sleeve so they can insert the
12:26:12:24 water when it comes.
12:26:13:15 It would be a lot cheaper rather than digging the
12:26:16:03 street up after the reclaimed water, it might be 20, 25
12:26:18:21 years, I don't know.
12:26:19:24 >>RAY CHIARAMONTE: You're talking about to require that
12:26:21:00 initially so it's ready then.
12:26:24:24 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Right.
12:26:25:27 >>RAY CHIARAMONTE: We'll look into that and see.
12:26:28:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:26:29:00 Our public comment.
12:26:35:12 >> Terry Neal, 4703 East River Hills Drive.
12:26:40:09 I know there's another version coming on May the 2nd
12:26:42:19 I believe.
12:26:43:12 In regards to the type of neighborhood designations, I
12:26:46:18 think it's very important when you're talking about
12:26:48:21 corridors and urban villages that you look at the
12:26:54:18 designation of roads.
12:26:55:15 This is something I've been e-mailing you about, things
12:26:57:10 like collectors and arterials, there's no concrete
12:26:59:24 definitions of how these are defined nor how -- there's
12:27:04:21 no criteria.
12:27:05:13 There is an F.D.O.T. 2003 recommendation about how to

12:27:09:00 create road designations based on the geographic
12:27:13:10 configurations of roads and the type of neighborhood
12:27:15:24 and things like that that I'll be glad to e-mail you.
12:27:18:16 But I really do think that we need to look at road
12:27:21:07 definitions and categories and how they are classified.
12:27:23:22 You know, we're having a problem with river hills drive
12:27:26:00 right now, and that's why I'm bringing that up.
12:27:29:19 Infrastructure, please prioritize it.
12:27:31:18 On my street, the City of Tampa never put a water line
12:27:35:15 in.
12:27:36:21 For four blocks, we do not have a water line.
12:27:39:04 We do not have fire hydrants.
12:27:41:13 We are all on wells.
12:27:43:10 We had a neighbor who her well went dry and she went to
12:27:47:00 the city and she said she would like to connect to city
12:27:49:27 water.
12:27:50:04 She was quoted a hundred thousand dollars to run the
12:27:53:16 line down the street to her house so she could connect.
12:27:56:10 That's unacceptable.
12:27:57:18 We've been in this city for 85 years in Temple Crest
12:28:01:27 and we can't get a water line.
12:28:03:15 And we got a letter from the Department of Public Works

12:28:05:27 about three years ago that said if you want to pay 12,
12:28:08:27 15 thousand dollars to share the burden, then you can
12:28:11:15 do it.

12:28:12:15 That's not acceptable.
12:28:14:03 We should have had a water line.
12:28:15:13 And before recycled water, anything else, we should
12:28:17:24 have water lines in the city and fire hydrants in the
12:28:22:19 city.
12:28:23:01 I hope you'll keep that in mind.
12:28:24:24 Also, in regards to targeting neighborhoods for
12:28:27:28 affordable housing, the most stable neighborhoods I
12:28:31:00 have ever seen wherever I have lived all over the world
12:28:34:00 have been ones where they have had mixed use housing
12:28:37:16 throughout the city.
12:28:38:25 Affordable housing should be everywhere.
12:28:41:07 Nice housing should be everywhere.
12:28:42:25 RS-75, RS-50, 10, whatever you want to do it, make it
12:28:49:00 stable by creating mixed use housing.
12:28:50:25 And finally, the river.
12:28:52:03 If you can do anything to not -- I know you're talking
12:28:56:04 about an overlay district, but if you can do something
12:28:58:22 to create a corridor that protects the river, low
12:29:01:18 density building along the river, we don't need all
12:29:04:04 that concrete, some kind of overlay, and then overlay
12:29:07:06 that goes all the way up to the Tampa city limits,
12:29:11:03 because we have a river up there, too.
12:29:13:03 And I know that everybody is talking about how healthy
12:29:15:18 the river is now below the dam, but we have a river up

12:29:19:00 there, too.
12:29:19:19 And I know ray and Tony and Terry Cullen and Michelle,
12:29:24:25 I familiarized them with something called orange lake
12:29:27:06 in my neighborhood.
12:29:28:15 The Audubon society has been trying to get that
12:29:30:24 designated for protection.
12:29:33:09 It's threatened.
12:29:34:09 It is a wildlife sanctuary.
12:29:35:27 We have hundreds of birds, nesting areas and species.
12:29:39:27 It's on the Hillsborough River.
12:29:41:19 It's in my neighborhood, and half the people in this --
12:29:44:18 well, three quarters, 90% of the people in the city

12:29:47:10 don't even know the name of it or where it exists.
12:29:50:01 We have to protect the health of the river above the
12:29:54:15 dam as well.
12:29:55:06 And I would really appreciate something that looks into
12:29:58:03 doing that.
12:29:59:06 And especially in regards to density.
12:30:01:06 Thanks for your time.
12:30:02:01 I know you are over the limit.
12:30:03:09 Thanks for doing this.
12:30:05:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
12:30:11:15 >> My name is Sue Lyon.
12:30:13:04 You all just spent so much time being good kids that
12:30:17:00 everybody had to go home.

12:30:18:09 So I'm the only one here to talk.
12:30:20:18 We spent three hours last night.
12:30:25:19 We met at 4:30, and we went till 8:00, the Planning
12:30:30:03 Commission came and talked to us.
12:30:32:00 This is an extremely complicated issue.
12:30:36:27 It's 500 pages.
12:30:40:27 Spencer Cass and Margaret Vizzi have both read the
12:30:45:15 entire plan.
12:30:48:21 These people are very concerned.
12:30:51:03 Margaret would be here except there was a mass in honor
12:30:59:16 of her husband's -- the anniversary of his death.
12:31:01:24 The TCEA is extremely important.
12:31:05:10 We are not allowed to speak before you and say, if
12:31:09:03 you're going to build, we'll use Georgetown as an
12:31:14:03 example.
12:31:14:12 If you're going to let Georgetown develop, we can't
12:31:17:10 come and tell you that Georgetown, the difference in
12:31:21:16 Georgetown, which was affordable housing project,
12:31:25:24 because the man let everybody live there cheap for
12:31:29:19 years.
12:31:30:00 He sold it.
12:31:31:09 He got old, he died or whatever, he sold it.
12:31:34:03 They are going to build wonderful, huge, gigantic
12:31:38:28 places there, whatever.
12:31:40:06 It's going to tear up south Tampa, when you put all

12:31:46:12 those people on Westshore Boulevard.

12:31:48:01 You can't widen Westshore Boulevard.
12:31:52:06 There's no room.
12:31:53:00 They are going to build, like John said, rattlesnake
12:31:55:27 point.
12:31:57:18 You'll put a whole city down there.
12:32:01:28 The only way they can get out of there is Westshore and
12:32:04:24 Gandy.
12:32:05:12 They can't.
12:32:09:01 It's a high-hazard flood zone.
12:32:11:01 We can't come and tell you don't build here because the
12:32:14:04 TCEA is in -- so our hands are tied.
12:32:18:12 So we got to do something with that.
12:32:20:21 We've got trouble with density being put in areas where
12:32:26:00 there is no infrastructure.
12:32:27:00 You all say, well, it's the city, it's going to have
12:32:31:15 infrastructure.
12:32:31:21 You listen to Terry, they are playing -- plenty of
12:32:35:09 places in Tampa that don't have water.
12:32:37:07 The water line on my street is this big.
12:32:40:21 Those of you-all who remember when Ann Johnson came up
12:32:45:09 here with the pipe and showed you the difference
12:32:46:28 between a three-inch pipe being this big and a six-inch
12:32:50:27 pipe being this big, which is what is required in order
12:32:55:01 to put new construction on the street, is a six-inch

12:32:59:06 water line.
12:33:00:04 There are not any in the City of Tampa.
12:33:02:03 Trust me.
12:33:02:22 It's old.
12:33:05:18 It's falling apart.
12:33:06:24 The Mayor is trying her darnedest to get us water
12:33:11:28 lines.
12:33:12:13 But they are a hundred years old over most of the city.
12:33:15:07 If we don't do something with the infrastructure now,
12:33:20:09 we shouldn't be building anything.
12:33:22:18 And we can't do that.
12:33:24:03 We can't just stop the world.
12:33:25:24 We found out when the bubble burst that people are laid
12:33:30:19 off.
12:33:31:18 We need jobs.
12:33:32:15 We need people to do things.
12:33:34:27 But in order to do that, we have to do it in an orderly
12:33:38:18 manner.
12:33:40:03 Michelle came and explained all this to us --
12:33:43:09 [buzzer]
12:33:45:12 We're concerned about the way F.D.O.T. says the curb
12:33:48:16 cuts are going from the main streets to side streets.
12:33:53:15 I use south Tampa a lot because that's where I live.
12:33:58:24 I'm one of these old people that gets lost if I go
12:34:01:22 north of Kennedy Boulevard.

12:34:04:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
12:34:05:27 >> When I was growing up, it was nothing.
12:34:08:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
12:34:08:15 >> I appreciate your-all's time and I would like to
12:34:11:21 thank Linda and you-all for scheduling a lot longer in
12:34:15:21 order to discuss this.
12:34:17:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:34:19:15 >> Thank you very much.
12:34:20:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, ma'am.
12:34:21:18 Next speaker.
12:34:24:28 >> Good afternoon, Council.
12:34:27:07 Fran Costantino, East Ybor Historic and Civic
12:34:29:03 Association.
12:34:31:03 Unlike Margaret, I've only had a chance to read half of
12:34:34:09 the comprehensive plan.
12:34:35:12 And there are some issues that I would like to bring
12:34:37:09 up, and certainly, I've been tied up with the
12:34:40:15 crematories on a lot of issues in this Ybor so I have
12:34:43:27 not attended the workshops with the Planning
12:34:45:25 Commission, but I do hope to get with them.
12:34:47:28 We were very worried that once IKEA comes, there's
12:34:51:15 going to be a lot of development along Adamo, and
12:34:54:12 probably all the new development and new developers
12:34:56:25 will be going for green construction hopefully.
12:34:59:12 So we're really worried about the bonuses that will be

12:35:02:10 coming, density and all of that is going to be
12:35:05:00 happening.
12:35:05:18 Just to give you all an insight on that.
12:35:08:15 I don't know where I read in an old comp plan, they
12:35:10:21 had -- and I didn't see it in the new one, but they had
12:35:15:03 a greenway bicycle trail for Adamo.
12:35:17:12 And there's actually part of it already paved.
12:35:20:18 I don't see it in the new comp plan and then somehow
12:35:23:21 transportation has given curb cuts and a drive-through
12:35:27:21 to city brew right on Adamo.
12:35:29:24 So we would definitely like -- and I don't know
12:35:32:15 traffic, how that's going to get involved once IKEA is
12:35:35:07 there with all the traffic, but we certainly would like
12:35:37:18 to retain our greenway and bike and pedestrian trail.
12:35:42:03 The crematory issue, I understand you all had pulled it
12:35:45:09 out.
12:35:45:24 We're still going through that.
12:35:48:15 The two had been issued permits, but we wanted to make
12:35:51:01 sure that the zoning allowed still for any others to
12:35:54:03 come, to be as far away as residential as we possibly
12:35:57:16 can.
12:35:59:00 Remembering, also, in permitting, I believe there's a
12:36:04:19 text amendment to change the industrial area, in other
12:36:12:00 words, to get rid of the industrial area.
12:36:14:00 And just keep in mind, please, that a CMU-35, and I

12:36:18:09 believe that is in there, is sufficient for now.
12:36:20:24 I know when S and F craftsmen came before you at
12:36:24:24 Channelside, which is 13th and Adamo, which is 1st
12:36:28:24 Avenue, we didn't give them for whatever reason CMU 60.
12:36:34:21 We granted them, Council just handed them a CMU-100.
12:36:39:09 I know.
12:36:39:27 Which allowed them a hundred units on a 1.1 parcel.
12:36:44:27 They won't tell us how high they'll go, but that will
12:36:48:06 be the beginning of the end.
12:36:50:09 I noticed also in there -- and this may be just an
12:36:53:12 error, but I saw a 70-foot height area for Ybor City.
12:36:56:15 Historic designated landmark historic area, as far as
12:37:02:15 my understanding, it had been 60 feet and several
12:37:04:25 places it's referring to it as 70 feet height limit.
12:37:07:21 We're very interested in having a neighborhood plan for
12:37:12:18 Ybor City.
12:37:13:03 And ideally, we would like -- I know Tampa Heights has
12:37:17:07 theirs.
12:37:17:19 We would like one, and also, to let it be part of the
12:37:21:21 comprehensive plan.
12:37:22:27 They refer also to clean industry.
12:37:28:03 East Ybor, sounds like an oxymoron to us.
12:37:31:21 Clean industry may be -- unless I'm not understanding
12:37:34:00 something like the cigar industry or something, but we
12:37:37:00 are burdened with quality of life and air issues, and

12:37:40:00 we've been working very close with the EPC.
12:37:42:15 We have a rock-crushing business.
12:37:45:09 We have a waste disposal business.
12:37:49:15 We have a stucco business.
12:37:51:09 We have Tampa Steel, and we are literally living in a
12:37:57:04 dust bowl.
12:37:59:00 [buzzer]
12:38:01:13 And just one last thing, if it's possible to work with
12:38:04:09 the school district out of our historic preservation
12:38:07:21 money, I think after the cigar factory, they have the
12:38:10:04 largest inventory of the most fantastic brick
12:38:12:09 structures, and it seems like we've lost many of them,
12:38:14:27 and maybe there's some way we can work with them to
12:38:17:01 help them to preserve this.
12:38:19:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
12:38:19:24 Okay.
12:38:20:04 All right, that concludes our public comment on that
12:38:22:19 workshop.
12:38:23:04 Council, there are a couple of issues that we need to
12:38:26:00 perhaps address, and then we will adjourn.
12:38:28:24 One is, Council member Saul-Sena raised an issue about
12:38:33:15 who would be here this afternoon at 1:30.
12:38:44:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Historic preservation special
12:38:45:24 discussion.
12:38:48:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have two people then.

12:38:50:00 Secondly, can I have a motion to receive and file?
12:38:56:18 All in favor, let it be known by aye.
12:39:01:10 The other issue is tonight, councilman Caetano sent a
12:39:09:22 letter out or a memoranda requesting that we take back
12:39:13:01 up the issue of the campaign reform workshop at the
12:39:17:04 convention center.
12:39:20:21 And my intent was to maybe continue that for tonight,
12:39:23:13 but we won't have a quorum -- we won't have a full
12:39:26:04 board again.
12:39:27:07 Memorandum --
12:39:29:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I question whether Council member
12:39:32:01 Miller will be here tonight.
12:39:34:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm speaking to that now.
12:39:35:09 I have a memorandum in my office that she will not be
12:39:37:24 here this evening.
12:39:38:21 I guess I need to find out what is your pleasure at
12:39:45:13 this point.
12:39:48:06 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Can we hold it over?
12:39:50:09 Under Robert's rules, it's to come up at the next
12:39:53:18 regular scheduled meeting.
12:40:00:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It can come up next Thursday.
12:40:02:15 I'm just saying that -- you sent a memorandum asking it
12:40:05:03 to be taken up today, so at end of the workshop, so
12:40:07:15 we're at the end, and we still don't have a full board,
12:40:07:15 and tonight we won't have a full board, so that means

12:40:07:15 we'll have to carry over.
12:40:08:18 Why don't you make a motion under new business.
12:40:12:04 We'll take up new business and new information to place
12:40:14:12 it on the agenda for next meeting.
12:40:18:18 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: I move that we take the motion for
12:40:21:21 consideration that I filed to our next regular meeting
12:40:25:13 being that we won't have a quorum this evening.
12:40:29:24 >> We will have a quorum, won't have a full board.
12:40:33:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:40:33:25 All in favor, let it be known by aye.
12:40:35:22 So moved and ordered.
12:40:37:00 Councilman Miranda.
12:40:43:04 So we will take that issue up.
12:40:46:21 That will be placed on the agenda for our next
12:40:49:12 regularly scheduled meeting.
12:40:51:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It would be a motion to reconsider.
12:40:56:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Other than that, anything else under
12:40:59:06 new business?
12:40:59:27 Councilwoman Mulhern, do you have anything?
12:41:04:10 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't have anything.
12:41:06:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano?
12:41:10:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Two items.
12:41:11:16 I think we've all been receiving phone calls about the
12:41:14:15 museum construction and the use of out-of-state
12:41:17:22 contractor.

12:41:18:00 I would like a staff report on that issue next
12:41:22:09 Thursday.
12:41:23:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
12:41:25:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Both -- yeah, probably staff and
12:41:29:12 maybe legal staff.
12:41:30:15 I think legal has been looking at it as well.
12:41:32:15 Just in regard to the opportunity -- and frankly, if
12:41:36:09 Mr. Daignault could possibly bring representatives of
12:41:39:13 Skanska.
12:41:42:15 Obviously, we can't demand that they appear, but since
12:41:47:21 they are a big contractor, maybe we could cordially
12:41:51:16 request that they appear to discuss that issue.
12:41:54:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me speak to that.
12:41:56:03 I think the problem will be that the administration
12:41:58:12 needs two weeks.
12:41:59:09 I think that's part of what we agreed to I think in the
12:42:01:21 rules.
12:42:03:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Normally, we give them the courtesy
12:42:06:15 of two weeks.
12:42:07:12 But in this case, since they are about to award a bid
12:42:11:09 and there's an emergency involved, I would say, and
12:42:15:09 with all due respect, eliminate that courtesy.
12:42:18:12 Otherwise two weeks from now it could be moot.
12:42:21:06 I think there's an exigency that we need to move
12:42:25:09 forward and have a discussion on this next Thursday.

12:42:28:28 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question.
12:42:32:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't see any problem with that
12:42:35:12 request.
12:42:35:24 I think both sides of the issue knows the issue and
12:42:40:00 they understand it.
12:42:40:22 I think that part of the representation has met with
12:42:43:24 the administration to some degree, and I think they
12:42:47:27 should both be up to speed on the issues that are
12:42:50:06 involved.
12:42:55:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I did get a call on this.
12:42:57:00 Skanska is the prime contractor, but they are not the
12:42:59:12 one that got --
12:43:01:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: They are the ones who awarded it to
12:43:02:28 the Alabama firm.
12:43:05:00 >>MARY MULHERN: It was Skanska that awarded the bid --
12:43:08:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: About to award it to the Alabama
12:43:10:01 firm.
12:43:11:01 >>MARY MULHERN: That's not what I understood.
12:43:13:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Skanska is the only name I know of.
12:43:16:15 That's where we can start.
12:43:18:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would suggest you want to be briefed.
12:43:21:15 I was briefed and I was told the rationale for why it
12:43:24:00 happened.
12:43:24:24 I suggest you may want to get a briefing.
12:43:27:22 I was informed that the price was way out of line, and

12:43:33:25 there was no minority or small business participation.
12:43:36:16 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I had a briefing, too, but it was
12:43:38:12 not -- no, because my point is, if it was the
12:43:44:09 administration and not Skanska, I need this cleared up.
12:43:47:07 Who awarded the bid?
12:43:49:15 Skanska?
12:43:50:00 >> Sal Territo, Legal Department.
12:43:52:18 You awarded the bid to Skanska.
12:43:55:12 This would be a subcontractor.
12:43:57:24 They are the ones choosing the subcontractors.
12:44:00:00 That's my understanding.
12:44:02:15 Unless I have the facts wrong.
12:44:05:09 You awarded the Skanska bid.
12:44:07:16 >>MARY MULHERN: No, I know we did.
12:44:08:28 But I thought the other bid was directly --
12:44:13:19 >> I've heard it's the subcontractor of theirs.
12:44:17:21 In effect, the private sector is making that choice,
12:44:20:01 not you.
12:44:23:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:44:23:22 That's a motion.
12:44:26:21 All in favor let it be known by aye.
12:44:30:13 So moved.
12:44:31:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Great tree study this morning.
12:44:32:27 Our code says that every five years, the city will do a
12:44:36:15 similar tree study which is good.

12:44:38:09 But Ms. Saul-Sena brings up a good point about
12:44:40:27 implementation.
12:44:41:12 So I don't want to just let that go.
12:44:44:03 I think maybe if staff could come back in three months
12:44:50:06 with some ideas about implementation, that would be
12:44:53:18 parks, probably parks staff.
12:44:55:12 I think that would be helpful.
12:45:00:00 Three months.
12:45:02:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: May I add a friendly amendment?
12:45:03:28 At that time, to bring back how many trees they planted
12:45:06:25 every year.
12:45:09:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded by --
12:45:11:15 moved by councilman Dingfelder and seconded by
12:45:14:09 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
12:45:14:27 All in favor, let it be known by aye.
12:45:19:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That would be the 31st of July.
12:45:22:21 >> Who is they?
12:45:24:00 The city or the developers?
12:45:26:00 >> City.
12:45:27:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I know there has been some
12:45:31:04 conversation, but I would like to see possibly if we
12:45:35:00 can get just a little sound bite from the Legal
12:45:37:27 Department next week regarding anything that's been
12:45:42:15 going on on the dispute of who has jurisdiction on a
12:45:47:18 certain stadium for fire rescue services and so forth.

12:45:53:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
12:45:54:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's being done by the city since
12:45:55:21 the inception.
12:45:56:28 I'm afraid that this is the first step forward that's
12:46:01:00 going to leap backwards instead of taking a positive
12:46:03:06 step.
12:46:03:16 And I don't want that to happen.
12:46:04:24 If this is true, then what's going to happen to the
12:46:09:04 airport?
12:46:10:03 What's going to happen to the Port of Tampa and other
12:46:12:03 venues that are within the city guidelines, within our
12:46:15:00 own, and I don't want this to get out of hand.
12:46:18:16 I don't want to start a disruptive with them.
12:46:24:09 But at the same time, I don't think we should step
12:46:25:28 backwards either.
12:46:26:16 I would like for the Legal Department to bring us up to
12:46:30:10 speed next week.
12:46:32:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved by Councilman Miranda and
12:46:35:09 seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena that we ask the
12:46:38:13 Legal Department to bring back or get us up to speed on
12:46:41:09 the issue involving the fire rescue and the Sports
12:46:44:10 Authority.
12:46:45:00 All in favor, let it be known by aye?
12:46:48:15 Opposed same sign.
12:46:49:21 So moved and ordered.

12:46:50:24 If no other business, then we stand in recess until
12:46:54:19 this evening --
12:46:55:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
12:46:56:00 1:30, special discussion.
12:46:59:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Special discussion at 1:30, but the
12:47:01:21 full board will be in recess until 6:00 this evening.
12:47:05:13