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Tampa City Council
Thursday, May 15, 2008
9:00 a.m. session

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09:02:55 [Sounding gavel]
09:03:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
09:03:02 order and we will yield to the honorable Joseph
09:03:05 Caetano.
09:03:05 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:03:07 This morning we have the pleasure of having Betty
09:03:09 Johnson from the Department of Revenue and finance of
09:03:12 utility accounting division to provide an invocation,
09:03:15 and we would like to thank her for her inspiration.
09:03:18 Please remain standing for the pledge of allegiance at

09:03:21 the end of the invocation.
09:03:23 Thank you.
09:03:26 >>> Let's get refuse reference.
09:03:32 O holy one, we thank you for what you have allowed us
09:03:35 to obtain thus far.
09:03:36 We pray for our City Council leaders, our Mayor Pam
09:03:39 Iorio and all of the leaders all over the world.
09:03:43 We pray for change.
09:03:44 We pray for encouragement.
09:03:45 We pray for understanding, and we pray for blessings
09:03:49 to be bestowed upon every person all over the world.
09:03:53 Please give our constituencies of the various
09:03:57 districts an understanding ear as well as City Council
09:04:00 to have an understanding ear.
09:04:03 We pray that everything would be what you would have
09:04:06 it to be.
09:04:07 And we ask all these things in your name.
09:04:09 Amen.
09:04:13 (Pledge of Allegiance)
09:04:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Roll call.
09:04:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:04:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.

09:04:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:04:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:04:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:04:47 Thank you very much.
09:04:48 At this time we are going to have several
09:04:52 commendations.
09:04:52 The first one, the chair will yield to honorable Gwen
09:04:57 Miller for the police Officer of the Month.
09:05:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Good morning, council.
09:05:08 We are going to have detective Richard moody to be our
09:05:12 honoree this morning.
09:05:14 We are very happy to have you here.
09:05:17 Chief Hogue, tell us about him.
09:05:21 >>CHIEF HOGUE: It is my pleasure to announce that
09:05:22 Richard moody is our officer of month for May 2008.
09:05:26 And, you know, it's always about work ethic and it's
09:05:32 always about doing a good job, and it's always about
09:05:35 making Tampa a better place that we give this award.
09:05:42 And there is no exception today with Richard moody.
09:05:45 One of the things recently, we are having a rash of
09:05:50 vandalisms in the south end of town.
09:05:53 And, you know, people's cars were being damaged, and

09:06:00 that maybe in the big scheme of things doesn't seem
09:06:03 like a big deal.
09:06:04 But if it's your car getting damaged then all of a
09:06:06 sudden it's a big deal.
09:06:10 So probably bell in excess of 100 vehicles throughout
09:06:20 the City of Tampa that were being damaged.
09:06:49 He has two exceptional skills.
09:06:51 One is his interview skills, getting people to confess
09:06:54 to crimes.
09:06:54 And the other one is that he is extremely meticulous
09:06:58 in his investigations.
09:07:00 He's not the kind of person you want chasing you
09:07:02 around if you did something wrong, because he's going
09:07:05 to end up with you.
09:07:06 So that was one of the things.
09:07:08 And then, of course, the other one was what started
09:07:13 out as a very interesting case, started out as a
09:07:17 simple battery, where an adult battered a juvenile,
09:07:21 and most police officers, I think, would just say,
09:07:25 okay, let me find a suspect and get this identified
09:07:28 and get this in the court system and get on to my next
09:07:31 case, because it wasn't a huge injury even though the

09:07:36 guy did have a broken nose.
09:07:39 But that wasn't good enough for detective moody.
09:07:42 He had to dig a little deeper into it and he finds out
09:07:44 that a business owner in the south end of town has
09:07:48 hired this adult to beat up this 16-year-old kid, and
09:08:01 he gets the suspect to confess to that fact.
09:08:04 He interviews the business owner.
09:08:07 It was a domestic issue that he wanted to injury that
09:08:13 child.
09:08:16 And he charged that business owner with a felony out
09:08:20 of what started off as a relatively simple fight.
09:08:23 So we want to recognize detective moody because he
09:08:27 does a great job out there every day.
09:08:29 He's the reason Tampa is getting to be a better place
09:08:32 when it comes to law enforcement crime every day
09:08:34 because of his hard work.
09:08:36 So it is my pleasure to announce that Richard moody is
09:08:38 our Officer of the Month for May 2008.
09:08:43 [ Applause ]
09:08:44 >>GWEN MILLER: On behalf of Tampa City Council, we
09:08:54 want to give you a commendation.
09:08:59 At this time we will have the private sector give you

09:09:08 some gifts.
09:09:11 >> Danny Lewis from Bill Currie Ford to present a
09:09:15 watch for Officer of the Month.
09:09:16 I would like to point out, starting this program in
09:09:24 1993, still going every month.
09:09:26 I think that shows the appreciation the community has
09:09:29 for the work our officers do.
09:09:34 >> Thank you for the outstanding job you are doing
09:09:44 here in Tampa.
09:09:49 Bring your family to the aquarium.
09:09:50 Thank you very much.
09:09:52 >> My name is Michelle Patty, the CEO of the attorney
09:09:59 referral service and am a new sponsor and I wanted to
09:10:02 give you this on behalf of my company in the
09:10:06 community, a gift certificate for a job well done.
09:10:09 We appreciate it.
09:10:18 >> I would like to present a gift certificate.
09:10:22 >> Steve Stickley representing Stepp's towing service
09:10:32 on behalf of Jim and Judy Stepp.
09:10:34 We would like to congratulate you for a job well done,
09:10:36 and we come in contact quite a bit with a lot of
09:10:41 vehicles.

09:10:43 We would like to give this gift certificate to you.
09:10:46 We appreciate it.
09:10:51 >> Tampa Lowry Park Zoo would like to present with you
09:11:02 this.
09:11:08 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I'm here on behalf of a couple of
09:11:10 sponsors who would like to recognize you for your
09:11:12 efforts.
09:11:13 One is Bern's steakhouse would like to present with
09:11:17 you a $100 gift certificate so you can enjoy yourself
09:11:20 over there.
09:11:20 Rigatoni's restaurant will provide you with a $50 gift
09:11:23 certificate to enjoy your choice of dinner or lunch.
09:11:26 And Hillsborough County towing association is
09:11:29 presenting you with a $50 gift certificate of your
09:11:32 choice, Outback or Carrabas, Lee Roy Selmon, wherever
09:11:38 you want to government and Bryn Allen studios to Bryn
09:11:43 Allen to have your portraits taken.
09:11:46 Enjoy that with your family.
09:11:48 Congratulations.
09:11:48 Thank you again.
09:11:59 >> I would like to say thank you very much for this
09:12:01 recognition.

09:12:02 I don't feel like I deserve it.
09:12:07 It's a great place to work, and the people I work with
09:12:09 and work for.
09:12:10 I think we do a great job over in district one.
09:12:13 Thank you.
09:12:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:12:22 Thank you, Ms. Miller.
09:12:25 We will now have a commendation presented by the
09:12:31 honorable Dingfelder.
09:12:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This is one of those double edged
09:13:28 swords.
09:13:29 It's a pleasure and an honor to present a commendation
09:13:31 to Curtis Lane, our good friend, but also with some
09:13:36 sadness that after several retirements, looks like
09:13:40 this one might be it.
09:13:50 The good friends who are here on behalf of Curtis.
09:13:56 Curtis is leaving us most recently as our director of
09:14:01 code enforcement and surrounded by his code
09:14:04 enforcement team here, and what a wonderful honor that
09:14:08 is to know how much they care about you.
09:14:16 >> Mr. Lane, throughout all the years, you have done
09:14:31 so much for the department of code enforcement.

09:14:34 You have not only been our director as far as the
09:14:36 codes are concerned, but you have been an honest man
09:14:40 of integrity, a man who has vision, and a man who is
09:14:45 very assertive.
09:14:46 You know how to place words, now how to direct your
09:14:52 staff and you have humility in the process of doing
09:14:55 all these things.
09:14:56 We know of your background.
09:14:57 We knew you prior to coming to the department of code
09:14:59 enforcement.
09:15:00 But you have been such a wonderful placement of part
09:15:06 of the program.
09:15:06 Now, there was always one missing piece there and you
09:15:10 brought it all together.
09:15:11 As a staff member, one of your supervisors, I thank
09:15:14 you.
09:15:15 The department of code enforcement thanks you.
09:15:17 Each and every individual you see here.
09:15:19 There are one or two who couldn't make it, they had
09:15:23 appointments they couldn't get out of.
09:15:24 But the entire department is with you.
09:15:26 Those you don't see, they are here in spirit.

09:15:30 And we thank you, we thank you, we thank you.
09:15:33 And God bless, whatever your future career, wherever
09:15:36 it takes you, we know you will be a success.
09:15:41 Thank you again, sir.
09:15:45 [ Applause ]
09:15:52 Of course, in addition to the past five years, I think
09:15:57 the code enforcement, 20 with TPD, and on behalf of
09:16:02 TPD, Chief Hogue.
09:16:05 >>CHIEF HOGUE: Congratulations.
09:16:07 I want to join you one day.
09:16:09 [ Laughter ]
09:16:15 Well, it was always generally sir, because he was the
09:16:19 gentleman who outranked me at some point through my
09:16:22 career, he was the boss, and kind of still look at him
09:16:25 today with that reverence.
09:16:27 He left his mark at the Tampa Police Department.
09:16:32 I think he broke many barriers as an African-American
09:16:36 on a police department, Tampa Police Department in
09:16:38 particular.
09:16:40 And I couldn't say it more eloquently than Harold did,
09:16:44 but he did a good job at every level of the
09:16:46 organization, and he rose to the very top of the Tampa

09:16:48 Police Department as the deputy chief at that
09:16:53 organization.
09:16:53 And we still remember him fondly and for all the good
09:16:57 things that he did there.
09:16:59 He will always of course be part of our TPD family.
09:17:01 And we wish him the best in retirement.
09:17:04 Thank you.
09:17:05 [ Applause ]
09:17:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: On behalf of Tampa City Council,
09:17:15 let me read you our commendation.
09:17:17 Tampa City Council is pleased to recognize the
09:17:19 director of code enforcement Curtis Lane upon your
09:17:22 retirement from the City of Tampa.
09:17:26 His employment went back to 1972 when he was employed
09:17:30 by the Tampa Police Department.
09:17:32 Curtis Lane was the first African-American promoted to
09:17:34 police major and deputy chief in the department's
09:17:37 history.
09:17:37 On July 24th, 1995 Curtis returned to the city as
09:17:41 an administrative assistant to the mayor at which
09:17:45 point after that he was appointed to the position of
09:17:46 director of code enforcement.

09:17:48 City of Tampa owes you, Curtis Lane, a debt of
09:17:51 gratitude for your commitment to the people of our
09:17:53 community and your tireless work on their behalf.
09:17:57 [ Applause ]
09:18:07 >>CURTIS LANE: First of all, thank you, councilman
09:18:10 Dingfelder and members of council, for the
09:18:11 recognition.
09:18:14 I have often said that the decisions we make today
09:18:21 will certainly have a significant impact on this city
09:18:24 for years and years to come, but we feel certain that
09:18:28 this council will continue that trend of building
09:18:32 bridges and continue that trend of enhancing the
09:18:37 quality of life in this community.
09:18:39 And I always look at Tampa as being the best location
09:18:43 in the nation.
09:18:45 I tell everyone that.
09:18:47 I would be remiss if I did not thank the men and women
09:18:52 of code enforcement for their diligence, for working
09:18:59 hard every day to enhance the quality of life for us
09:19:02 all.
09:19:03 And for that, I owe them a great, great deal of
09:19:07 gratitude, and I will never ever forget them.

09:19:11 I have enjoyed my stay, my tenure with the City of
09:19:14 Tampa, with the police department, the mayor's office,
09:19:16 and Dick Greco, and code enforcement.
09:19:20 So again, thank you so very much.
09:19:22 And I know that this council will continue to be
09:19:26 vociferous about those issues that affect us all.
09:19:30 Thank you so very much.
09:19:31 [ Applause ]
09:19:32 s?
09:19:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
09:19:45 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Curtis, I want to thank you.
09:19:48 I know I have called you many, many times on different
09:19:50 issues.
09:19:51 Is Jake going to have your phone number, or do we call
09:19:54 him?
09:19:54 [ Laughter ]
09:19:56 >>CURTIS LANE: No one has my phone number.
09:19:58 [ Laughter ]
09:19:59 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I had Curtis out in New Tampa one
09:20:03 day, a big gorilla about take feet tall and the people
09:20:08 in the shopping center were adamant, they wanted him
09:20:11 out of there.

09:20:11 Even a former counselor from my district, his wife
09:20:14 called me, and said, what's going on up here?
09:20:17 I don't know.
09:20:18 So I went there and Curtis took care of it on a
09:20:20 Saturday.
09:20:21 He was cutting his lawn.
09:20:22 He came down there and took care of it.
09:20:30 I know I worked with Mr. Slater throughout the years
09:20:32 on occupational license.
09:20:34 And I know we are going to have a great leader
09:20:36 replacing you.
09:20:37 Thank you, sir.
09:20:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You set the trend in modern
09:20:49 clothing.
09:20:50 Today I knew you were come so I looked for a tie, but
09:20:53 evidently you have outdone me again.
09:20:57 I have enjoyed working with you.
09:20:59 I never lost an election, I just went into compile
09:21:03 once in a while but I want to thank you for all the
09:21:05 services and dedication, and the way people love you
09:21:08 no matter what department you are in.
09:21:09 I want to thank you sincerely.

09:21:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to thank you for the
09:21:19 incredibly quick and helpful and kind responses
09:21:25 anytime we called you.
09:21:32 Defied the usual city government.
09:21:34 It's been wonderful working with you and we are going
09:21:36 to miss you.
09:21:40 >>GWEN MILLER: I'm going to say, you know, I will
09:21:42 still call you.
09:21:46 [ Laughter ]
09:21:48 I'm going to call you and you tell Dick what to do.
09:21:52 You have been there so long, it's still with you and I
09:21:54 know you are not going to forget it.
09:21:56 So I wish you best wishes on your retirement.
09:21:59 I know you are going to enjoy it and think about us,
09:22:01 though, when you are retiring out there.
09:22:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Lane, thank you so very much.
09:22:08 You have served this community.
09:22:09 You have served this government with distinction, with
09:22:13 integrity, and all the way back to '72 to today, you
09:22:18 still look young.
09:22:22 So I just can't see you going into complete
09:22:24 retirement.

09:22:24 Whatever the future holds, I'm sure that you are going
09:22:27 to be a success at it.
09:22:29 And you have taken on many responsibilities and
09:22:31 challenges, and you have done that with grace and with
09:22:35 determination, tenacity, and thank you so very much.
09:22:39 And your professionalism also reflected throughout
09:22:43 this code enforcement department.
09:22:45 I want you to know that even when I call, I call Mr.
09:22:55 Scott -- Mr. Scott is driving throughout the district
09:22:57 and it's just great to know you have professional
09:22:59 people, that that profession has transferred even down
09:23:04 into the ranks so thank you for what you have done for
09:23:07 the entire city government and the entire community.
09:23:10 Thank you and God bless you.
09:23:12 [ Applause ]
09:23:23 We are scheduled now to have the representative from
09:23:38 MOSI come forward to present the national Hispanic
09:23:44 scientist of the year award.
09:23:49 I think Mr. Ostrenko is here.
09:24:01 >> Good morning.
09:24:53 I can tell one good story on the code enforcement.
09:24:56 The science center, when the IMAX theater was being

09:25:00 built, the IMAX theater -- written in the United
09:25:06 States, but the code enforcement department worked
09:25:09 with us for the entire year during its design.
09:25:12 And it was probably the best built science center and
09:25:18 IMAX theater in the nation.
09:25:23 It will stand for a thousand years thanks to the
09:25:25 cooperation we got from the city.
09:25:27 I do want to thank the city and the council for all
09:25:29 your support throughout the years to support the
09:25:32 science center, and every year, we get about three
09:25:38 times the number of people that live in the City of
09:25:40 Tampa going through the science center.
09:25:42 And it's just a great service to the community and we
09:25:46 appreciate the opportunity.
09:25:48 This morning we would like to introduce our new
09:25:53 scientist of the year and I would like to have her do
09:25:59 that because she's been with us for eight years.
09:26:05 >>> Good morning.
09:26:06 First of all thank you for letting us come and make
09:26:09 this announcement.
09:26:10 Over the last eight years, MOSI National Hispanic
09:26:16 Scientist of the Year, probably 65,000 Hispanic

09:26:21 children, through the various program for National
09:26:24 Hispanic Scientist of the Year we bring little school
09:26:27 children from high school children to the science
09:26:28 center many for the first time in their lives to
09:26:31 experience the science center for free, and to receive
09:26:35 a lecture from the National Hispanic Scientist of the
09:26:37 Year.
09:26:38 The mission of the event is to showcase the success of
09:26:43 the national and in many instances internationally
09:26:45 renowned Hispanic scientist whose mission is the
09:26:49 public education of science.
09:26:50 Places like MOSI are where a lot of people get the
09:26:50 crux of their science education, especially those that
09:26:58 have dropped out of school.
09:27:00 The purpose of this program is to keep children
09:27:02 especially middle schoolers from dropping out of
09:27:04 school.
09:27:04 As many of you know and some of you have attended, Mr.
09:27:07 Miranda has provided and has presented City Council
09:27:10 and the City of Tampa awards to many of our scientists
09:27:14 in the past each year.
09:27:16 And we would like to announce at this time the 2008

09:27:19 honoree is a woman named Dr. Lydia Villa Komaroff.
09:27:28 She's a molecular biologist, received her Ph.D. at
09:27:28 M.I.T. and CEO of a private enterprise. She is one of
09:27:29 the founders of the oldest Hispanic scientist
09:27:35 organizations in the United States, SACNAS, Society
09:27:37 for the Advancement of Chicano Native American
09:27:40 Scientists.
09:27:40 The event will take place on October 10th and
09:27:43 11th.
09:27:44 On October 10th we will have 1200 middle and high
09:27:47 school children come to MOSI for free, to listen to
09:27:50 the scientists tell them about how they too can do
09:27:54 what she did and they can fulfill their dreams by
09:27:56 staying in school.
09:27:57 We look forward to having you at this event.
09:28:00 And for the last eight years, BrightHouse Network has
09:28:03 been our presenting sponsor, and today Andrea White
09:28:05 would like to give you a message.
09:28:11 >> Thank you.
09:28:12 On behalf of Bright House networks, we are proud to
09:28:15 bring this program and be a proud sponsor as well as
09:28:19 bring national attention to the City of Tampa.

09:28:22 We are very proud of the city and the things that you
09:28:25 all do, and we are proud of our employees that support
09:28:28 and live within the community.
09:28:30 We do a lot to give back and support the things that
09:28:33 we do in the community.
09:28:34 And I just want to say thank you for everything and
09:28:37 let you know that Bright House is here to stay, and we
09:28:40 will continue our support of the community.
09:28:43 Thank you.
09:28:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have a memorandum from councilwoman
09:29:00 Linda Saul-Sena, who will not be here today.
09:29:03 Please be advised that I will be out of town attending
09:29:06 a leadership Florida conference, and unable to attend
09:29:09 the morning council session scheduled on Thursday, May
09:29:12 15th, 2008.
09:29:14 Thank you.
09:29:16 From councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:29:18 We have now the approval of the agenda.
09:29:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Chairman, members of City Council.
09:29:25 You have before you the addendum to the agenda.
09:29:27 I would like to very briefly review it with you.
09:29:30 You have a request by council member Mulhern for a

09:29:33 council adoption of a resolution designating June
09:29:36 hurricane awareness month.
09:29:38 Would you like to add that to the agenda?
09:29:40 We can take that up at the end if you like.
09:29:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
09:29:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The same with request by chairman
09:29:48 Scott, possibility of City Council scheduling a
09:29:51 regular meeting on June 19th.
09:29:52 Do you wish to take that up under new business as
09:29:54 well?
09:29:55 Finally, there's been a request by Mr. Santiago
09:29:59 Corrada to provide a brief update on a permit.
09:30:02 He would like to be able to do that early on after the
09:30:04 adoption of the agenda if council wishes.
09:30:07 Thank you.
09:30:08 With regard to the item number 46 and 47, those are
09:30:12 substitutions.
09:30:15 Council, basically what it is is a legal description,
09:30:20 staff omitted and legal department would like to
09:30:22 submit the corrected documents.
09:30:24 With regard to item number 106, there's been a request
09:30:28 by land development to substitute the legal

09:30:31 description for WZ 08-101.
09:30:35 Do you have that?
09:30:36 Does the clerk have that?
09:30:38 Thank you.
09:30:39 So at that time we can do that; please, council.
09:30:43 With regard to the continuance, removal of items, you
09:30:45 have received a memorandum regarding the rescheduling
09:30:51 of your closed session that is presently scheduled and
09:30:54 noticed for noon today, May 15th.
09:30:59 And the request is to reschedule that for June
09:31:03 5th, 2008, at the request of senior assistant
09:31:07 attorney Julia Cole.
09:31:09 She's requested -- she put down 12:00 because that is
09:31:12 what council had for this time.
09:31:15 It's council's wish to do that at any other time
09:31:23 please do so.
09:31:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If we can go through all of the
09:31:26 changes and make one motion to approve the changes to
09:31:28 the agenda if that's acceptable.
09:31:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Okay.
09:31:32 I just want to be clear the direction would be then to
09:31:34 cancel today's meeting.

09:31:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
09:31:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: At noon and reschedule the closed
09:31:39 session for June 5th, 2008, at what time?
09:31:43 12:00 as she had suggested?
09:31:44 >> Yes.
09:31:45 >> (off microphone).
09:31:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:31:58 All in favor?
09:31:59 Opposes?
09:32:02 So ordered.
09:32:04 Move the closed session to June 5th at 12 noon.
09:32:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
09:32:09 Council, item number 6 is a request by council member
09:32:12 Dingfelder to have that -- I believe was that to be
09:32:18 continued?
09:32:19 What was your request?
09:32:20 I'm sorry.
09:32:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go ahead.
09:32:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: To continue it so it tracks along
09:32:31 with the actual bid, which I think is coming two weeks
09:32:35 from now.
09:32:37 This is the memorandum of agreement with the sheriff's

09:32:39 office for the radio system.
09:32:42 And it didn't seem to me -- didn't make a lot of sense
09:32:46 to discuss it today and discuss it in two weeks so
09:32:48 let's just deal with them together.
09:32:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Would council wish to hear from the
09:32:52 legal department if there's any issue --
09:32:55 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to know if it does cause a
09:32:58 problem.
09:32:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I spoke to the chief yesterday and
09:33:00 he told me he didn't have any objection to continuing
09:33:02 this item for two weeks just so it track as long with
09:33:06 the other item.
09:33:08 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
09:33:10 That's absolutely correct.
09:33:11 They just need to be considered in tandem whether it's
09:33:15 this one now and the other one done later our both of
09:33:18 them the same day, that's fine.
09:33:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item 17 has been a request to remove
09:33:23 that item regarding the children's museum from the
09:33:26 agenda.
09:33:26 Item number 69 is a request for a 30-day continuance
09:33:31 for the report.

09:33:34 Item number 72 is a request from the city staff, and
09:33:40 Steve Mick lien toy continue the transportation report
09:33:42 off of pedestrian safety and discuss it in concert
09:33:45 with the workshop on traffic and on-street parking in
09:33:48 the Soho district now scheduled for May 22nd, your
09:33:51 workshop day next week at 10 a.m.
09:33:54 Item number 76 is a request from city attorney David
09:33:57 Smith to have the item related to the TECO franchise
09:33:59 be withdrawn from today's agenda, and the agenda
09:34:02 scheduled for June 5th to have those items
09:34:05 removed.
09:34:06 Items 94 and 98 are 10:00 time certain so we'll take
09:34:12 those up at the time.
09:34:14 Item number 99 is to be removed from the agenda
09:34:16 because it is approved administratively, as is item
09:34:21 102.
09:34:22 Item 103 is a request that will have to be taken up at
09:34:26 a time certain at 1:30.
09:34:28 Item 108 needs to be removed because it cannot be
09:34:30 heard.
09:34:31 No affidavit has been filed.
09:34:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Excuse me, item 103 is slated for

09:34:40 10:00.
09:34:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I apologize.
09:34:42 I'm reading off the addendum.
09:34:45 I apologize to council.
09:34:47 Thank you very much, sir.
09:34:48 With regard to the changes to the agenda, you see that
09:34:52 there are larger exhibit F on item 30, a memorandum on
09:34:58 item 73, and there's been a request to set a time
09:35:02 certain for item 79 for the presentation of applicants
09:35:07 to the Historic Preservation Commission.
09:35:09 Council, that, I believe, is your addendum, and any
09:35:15 changes that I believe have been noted up until this
09:35:17 point.
09:35:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I will entertain a motion to accept
09:35:23 the changes.
09:35:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved, Mr. Chairman.
09:35:26 >> Second.
09:35:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So moved and ordered.
09:35:29 Thank you very much.
09:35:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I don't believe I picked up
09:35:33 item 4.
09:35:34 And forgive me.

09:35:35 Item 4 was a request by council member Saul-Sena.
09:35:37 She sent a memo to continue the first reading of the
09:35:40 ordinance amending to the code of ordinances chapter
09:35:42 17.5 to June 5, 2008.
09:35:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
09:35:49 >> Second.
09:35:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So moved and ordered.
09:35:53 Okay.
09:35:53 Thank you very much.
09:35:57 Before we take up the public comment, Mr. Santiago?
09:36:06 Council may be aware of things going on in the press.
09:36:13 Welcome.
09:36:17 >> Santiago Corrada, neighborhood services
09:36:22 administrator.
09:36:23 I'm here this morning to report on the kick ball
09:36:26 activities that have been going on in some of our
09:36:29 neighborhood and community parks.
09:36:31 The city became aware mid-Martha a group of ladies
09:36:35 from different parts of the community had formed kick
09:36:37 ball teams and were playing in neighborhood parks.
09:36:45 We became aware because they became very popular, were
09:36:49 being sponsored and promoteded and talked about and

09:36:53 drawing large crowds to the games.
09:36:54 Now, I want to speak to the positive side of it.
09:36:58 The ladies were creating teams to bring unity to
09:37:02 create camaraderie between the different neighborhoods
09:37:04 so it was a positive activity that had some
09:37:08 consequence because of crowd sizes that were impacting
09:37:11 neighborhoods.
09:37:12 We received some letters of complaint to the mayor's
09:37:14 office.
09:37:15 We received some letters and some concerns to the
09:37:17 parks and rec department.
09:37:19 The parks and rec department and Tampa Police
09:37:21 Department met with the organizers and apprised them
09:37:25 if these large crowds were being drawn they would be
09:37:28 subject to a special event permit, a permit to play,
09:37:32 and that required insurance, liability insurance, if
09:37:36 it was an organized league.
09:37:38 We have since tracked the activities.
09:37:41 We met with the organizers yesterday afternoon, and
09:37:45 what we have concluded is that we will work with them
09:37:48 to schedule the kick ballgames, because they are
09:37:50 positive activities in those neighborhood parks which

09:37:54 can accommodate the activities and we are working with
09:37:56 Tampa Police Department to ensure that the
09:37:59 neighborhood that surround those particular parks are
09:38:01 not adversely affected by the crowds that then spill
09:38:05 over into the community.
09:38:06 We think we have come to a compromise and a workable
09:38:10 solution, and in closing, I will leave with council
09:38:15 just a chronology of all the activities that have
09:38:19 occurred throughout the different neighborhoods and
09:38:20 the many, many meetings we had to Troy to rectify the
09:38:23 situation.
09:38:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I didn't know we had a kick ball
09:38:28 crisis in this city.
09:38:40 >> Thank you for providing me this opportunity early
09:38:42 in the agenda.
09:38:43 If you have any questions I would be glad to answer
09:38:45 those.
09:38:46 >>GWEN MILLER: I have one.
09:38:48 In meeting with the kick ball team are they Safford?
09:38:50 >> They appeared to be satisfied yesterday afternoon.
09:38:52 They are going to work with members of the parks and
09:38:54 rec department to go ahead and make sure that those

09:38:56 are scheduled correctly so that they don't have a
09:38:59 conflict with a permitted regularly scheduled
09:39:02 activity.
09:39:02 So we are going to work with them to provide the
09:39:04 venues and make sure that it's a positive event for
09:39:07 all involved including the neighborhood and the
09:39:09 adjacent businesses, churches, and others that may be
09:39:12 negatively impacted.
09:39:13 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to thank you for getting
09:39:15 involved because it did get out of hand so you got in
09:39:18 quickly and solved the problem.
09:39:20 I really appreciate that.
09:39:20 >> Well, in the chronology of events you will see that
09:39:24 city staff tried to work through some of the issues,
09:39:26 really tried to provide some options for them, and I
09:39:30 think yesterday we have come to a workable solution.
09:39:32 So thank you very, very much.
09:39:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you very much.
09:39:36 And thanks for coming and briefing council.
09:39:37 >> My pleasure.
09:39:39 Thank you.
09:39:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

09:39:41 Okay.
09:39:42 We will take public comment at this time.
09:39:45 Council has allocated 30 minutes.
09:39:49 Persons wishing to be heard.
09:39:52 Preference is given first to those who want to speak
09:39:54 to any item on the agenda.
09:39:59 So if you will come and speak, you have three minutes
09:40:01 to state your name and address for the record.
09:40:03 We want to take those who want to address items on the
09:40:07 agenda first.
09:40:07 >> Good morning, commissioners.
09:40:11 Commissioners?
09:40:14 Council members, my name is Terry Neal, I actually
09:40:19 came prepared to talk about item number 4 today.
09:40:23 I'm glad that it's been continued.
09:40:26 However, on June 5th, I have a doctor's
09:40:29 appointment that I absolutely have to attend, cannot
09:40:33 change, and I was asking for some consideration to
09:40:37 have a 1:30 time certain, if that's possible.
09:40:41 I presented a workshop last week with councilwoman
09:40:45 Saul-Sena involving livable roadways and things like
09:40:48 that.

09:40:48 So that's basically all I'm asking for today, if we
09:40:52 could have a 1:30 time certain.
09:40:54 I would really appreciate it.
09:40:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And it may be row solved even before
09:40:59 that because a lot of the issues may be covered in the
09:41:01 workshop on the 22nd.
09:41:03 That's what I was told.
09:41:04 >>> I believe the transportation manual is part of the
09:41:07 municipal code which is not covered by the plans that
09:41:11 you are speaking of?
09:41:13 >> Yes, my understanding is that it's going to be
09:41:14 covered in the comprehensive plan at the workshop.
09:41:19 >>> I believe there are two separate issues.
09:41:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, does staff want to address that?
09:41:31 >>> Good morning.
09:41:33 Cindy Miller, director of growth management and
09:41:35 services.
09:41:36 There is a workshop next week on the comprehensive
09:41:37 plan, and transportation is the emphasis.
09:41:40 So there will be -- we certainly can incorporate some
09:41:43 of the discussion as to how it works with the
09:41:45 comprehensive plan, land development regulations and

09:41:48 then the text manual.
09:41:49 So I think that will be helpful as the workshop that
09:41:53 will be held I believe next week.
09:41:57 And to clarify, it would not be adopted next week, it
09:42:02 will still be under consideration in June.
09:42:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: In my briefing yesterday, it was said
09:42:06 that it will probably be covered in the workshop.
09:42:08 >>> And the only reason I wanted to be here on the
09:42:12 5th, that's when it will be adopted and I would
09:42:15 like to make comments based on what happens during the
09:42:17 workshop.
09:42:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:42:19 But you will be to the workshop.
09:42:20 >>> Absolutely.
09:42:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On the 22nd.
09:42:23 >>> Yes.
09:42:24 So I'm asking for a 1:30 time certain on the 5th.
09:42:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:42:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did council wish to take any action
09:42:35 on that?
09:42:36 >> Not right now.
09:42:36 This is public comment right now but just make a note

09:42:39 we can come back to it.
09:42:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I also wish to remind council that is
09:42:42 set for first reading.
09:42:43 The public hearing will be two weeks subsequent to
09:42:45 that.
09:42:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:42:48 >>> I'm Kristina Acosta, 804 south Bayside Drive.
09:42:54 I would like to just speak to you very quickly about
09:42:56 item number 35 on your agenda, the waterfront, the
09:43:01 proposed stormwater canal dredging.
09:43:04 I would like to simply ask you, council, to enable the
09:43:09 democratic voting process so that we can move forward,
09:43:13 and you can hear and ratify a process that you are
09:43:16 comfortable with, so that citizens can vote.
09:43:22 That's all we are asking to do is demonstrate to you
09:43:25 the large percentage of canal-front owners who would
09:43:30 like to move forward with this partnership with the
09:43:33 city.
09:43:34 I also would like to ask you please, as you hear the
09:43:38 feedback, whether it be in favor or opposed this
09:43:42 morning, or when the agenda item comes up, please be
09:43:46 sure to ascertain from each speaker whether or not

09:43:50 they are in fact waterfront property owners, because
09:43:54 there might be people who want to provide you with
09:43:57 feedback, but in fact they are not even going to be
09:44:00 asked to vote or asked to consider a private special
09:44:05 assessment.
09:44:06 And I think that that's very vital for you to take
09:44:09 into consideration.
09:44:10 Thank you for your time.
09:44:15 >>> I'm Betty Garcia, 2615 north Dundee.
09:44:19 I am a resident of one of the bodies of water.
09:44:23 In fact, I live on the river Dundee, which is being
09:44:26 included in the canal project.
09:44:29 Quite frankly, I think that's inappropriate simply by
09:44:32 definition.
09:44:34 As far as the right to vote, of course we have a right
09:44:36 to vote.
09:44:37 We have a concern that the issue before you is very
09:44:40 clear.
09:44:41 It not simply a matter of a right to vote.
09:44:43 It's a matter of whether it is appropriate to let a
09:44:47 percentage of people vote to in fact tax another group
09:44:50 of people.

09:44:52 On page 39 of the Tampa comprehensive plan, monitoring
09:44:56 and maintenance report, there is reference to the
09:44:59 Tampa comprehensive plan, recognizing the Tampa port
09:45:03 authority under its authority by the law of Florida as
09:45:06 the governing body for all submerged lands within
09:45:10 Hillsborough County.
09:45:11 That includes the lands that are under consideration
09:45:14 today.
09:45:17 As the attorney general of the State of Florida
09:45:19 regularly gives opinion in writing to City Councils
09:45:23 across the state, it would seem that the city and city
09:45:26 attorneys would welcome the opinion of the attorney
09:45:28 general regarding who is the governing body of
09:45:33 submerged lands within Hillsborough County, and
09:45:35 whether by vote a small number of people have the
09:45:39 right to impose a tax on a larger group of people.
09:45:43 I'd appreciate your serious consideration of writing a
09:45:47 letter requesting that opinion from the attorney
09:45:50 general, stated precisely as who is the governing body
09:45:54 of submerged lands within Hillsborough County?
09:45:58 Thank you for your time.
09:46:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

09:46:02 Next speaker.
09:46:09 >> Scharett, I live at 109 south Fleishman Avenue here
09:46:15 to speak on item 99 which has been removed from the
09:46:17 agenda and I have a petition to give to you this
09:46:19 morning.
09:46:20 We the undersigned residents of Courier City Oscawana
09:46:24 neighborhood request that you not approve the opening
09:46:26 of the bungalow located at 2202 West Kennedy Boulevard
09:46:30 due to a lack of on-site parking and limited parking
09:46:33 within the neighborhood.
09:46:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, excuse me.
09:46:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That was a public hearing but now
09:46:42 it's withdrawn.
09:46:43 >>> It's been approved.
09:46:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's going to be handled through the
09:46:48 administrative process rather than City Council.
09:46:49 >>> Correct.
09:46:50 It was approved by -- the permit was extended, and I'm
09:46:55 here to let you know that we still have a right to
09:47:00 speak in front of you.
09:47:03 Correct?
09:47:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's true.

09:47:05 Yes.
09:47:05 >>> Thank you.
09:47:07 Should you approve the bungalow that the hours of
09:47:11 operation be limited to 11 p.m. since they stated this
09:47:14 was their family residence -- or family restaurant.
09:47:18 That the outside music or speaker system be limited to
09:47:22 10 p.m.
09:47:22 And I have signatures here from 45 of my neighbors.
09:47:29 Also, the parking problems within Courier City.
09:47:36 Along all corridors of this city that have a speed
09:47:39 limit of 40 miles per hour.
09:47:41 You take and go down a street here, and you have
09:47:45 no-parking signs on Albany, getting off of -- going
09:47:53 onto -- when you are turning off of say flack street
09:47:59 to Westland.
09:48:01 There's no-parking signs up to the corner.
09:48:03 So if people can park right up to the end of that
09:48:06 street, it becomes a one-way street.
09:48:09 People coming off of any street in the city, you are
09:48:16 causing accidents, and you are not being responsible
09:48:18 as far as taking and marking a street.
09:48:27 And I don't know where I need to go with this.

09:48:30 I have gone to Debby Harrington, city D.O.T.
09:48:42 I have gotten no response.
09:48:43 I know since 9/11 the city receives thousands of
09:48:47 dollars from the government.
09:48:48 And you are jeopardizing that funding, because it's
09:48:52 required to have first responders to get into all
09:48:56 areas of the city.
09:48:57 And the parking problems in Courier City are just an
09:49:00 example of you losing this right.
09:49:02 And by not having the city, the people who in charge
09:49:07 of this code enforcement not replying and not doing
09:49:10 anything, is putting us in jeopardy.
09:49:14 And if we need to go to the state or federal, that's
09:49:16 where we are going to go.
09:49:17 Thank you for your time.
09:49:20 Should I leave this petition with you?
09:49:22 >> Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of City
09:49:30 Council.
09:49:32 My name is Ted Taub with Shumaker, Loop and Kendrick,
09:49:38 here on item number 80 on your agenda.
09:49:41 And I'm representing a Tampa company that's been
09:49:46 headquartered in Tampa 50 years, provides shop

09:49:49 fabricated and steel plate structures for petroleum,
09:49:52 chemical, pulp, paper, mining, electric, power,
09:49:56 wastewater industries, throughout the U.S., Caribbean,
09:49:59 central and South America.
09:50:01 It has been suggested that if the city would create a
09:50:03 local preference in awarding contracts that such a
09:50:06 preference would be in violation of the city's charter
09:50:09 and inconsistent with the state's and the city's
09:50:12 competitive procurement methods, and we must
09:50:14 respectfully disagree with that position.
09:50:17 Section 8.04 of the city's charter embrace it is
09:50:20 concept of competitive bidding.
09:50:22 It states in part, and I quote, no contract with a
09:50:24 lease option or otherwise for the acquisition of
09:50:28 personal property, or the furnishing of labor, or for
09:50:30 the construction, maintenance or repair of any public
09:50:33 improvements shall be awarded to the lowest
09:50:36 responsible bidner response to the legal competitive
09:50:38 procurement methods.
09:50:39 These procurement methods to the maximum extent
09:50:42 practical shall be provided by ordinance.
09:50:45 Now, consistent with the city's charter section 2-277,

09:50:49 which expressly provides a public improvement
09:50:51 contracts regarding one of a thousand dollars may only
09:50:54 be made upon a competitive bid basis.
09:50:57 Consistent with the city's charter and executive order
09:50:59 98-01 by former Mayor Greco passed on February 12,
09:51:03 1998, which I understand has been amended but not
09:51:06 substantially, includes firm location as one of the
09:51:09 criteria to be applied by the certification and
09:51:13 competitive selection committee.
09:51:15 Executive order is also consistent with the state's
09:51:17 consultant competitive negotiation act 287.055 of
09:51:22 Florida statutes which also includes location as one
09:51:25 of the factors to be considered by an agency in
09:51:28 determining whether a firm is qualified.
09:51:30 The belief that local preference is at odds with
09:51:34 competitive procurement methods is misplaced.
09:51:37 The Florida legislature enacted the CCNA and this city
09:51:41 when it created its charter and adopted section 2-277
09:51:46 and the executive order 98.01 embraced the concept of
09:51:49 competitive bidding and expressly included location as
09:51:52 one of the factors to be applied when selecting the
09:51:56 lowest responsible bidder.

09:51:57 For example, and I have copies of these documents
09:51:59 which are not in your file.
09:52:03 With your permission I will be glad to hand them out.
09:52:05 There are two AGO opinions.
09:52:08 AGO opinions -- 2001-65 in response to an inquiry
09:52:16 posed by the Lake County school board concluded that
09:52:19 it was permissible to adopt a policy in awarding
09:52:22 purchasing professional service contracts that gives
09:52:24 preference to businesses located within Lake County
09:52:29 statutorily proscribed preferences.
09:52:31 The AGO announce when the legislature established the
09:52:35 CCNA act it provided for competitive process of no
09:52:38 fewer than three firms deemed to be the most highly
09:52:42 qualified, in determining whether affirm is qualified
09:52:44 an agency must consider certain factors including
09:52:46 location.
09:52:47 The AGO interpreted the term location to relate to the
09:52:50 firm's place of business since all other saw the you
09:52:53 early to characteristics such as professional
09:52:56 performance, et cetera, relates to the firm.
09:52:58 That conclusion was also supported in an AGO opinion
09:53:01 2002-03.

09:53:03 I recognize AGO opinions are not law but they are
09:53:07 persuasive.
09:53:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:53:10 >>> And I would request permission, Mr. Chairman, to
09:53:14 submit some written materials to the council, since I
09:53:18 was not able to finish today.
09:53:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
09:53:20 Give it to the clerk.
09:53:21 >>> Which are all scratched up.
09:53:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Give it to the clerk and we'll take
09:53:25 them.
09:53:26 Thank you very much.
09:53:27 We have a tight agenda so we need to keep moving.
09:53:29 Next speaker.
09:53:32 >> Good morning.
09:53:33 My name is Martha McShrider, I live at 704 south New
09:53:38 Port Avenue.
09:53:39 And what brings me here today is what you have on the
09:53:44 agenda as number 99 that granted, extension granted.
09:53:52 We own two properties.
09:53:54 One is 102 south Westland.
09:53:57 The other property is 106 south Westland.

09:54:01 The 102 south Westland is a law office which my
09:54:07 husband and I own, and 106 is a rental property that
09:54:11 we own.
09:54:15 In the last six months, the property at 2202 has cut
09:54:22 down trees, has gotten permits passed.
09:54:28 This notice of hearing that we were supposed to have
09:54:30 has been granted without being informed.
09:54:36 I object to this restaurant, operation of this
09:54:40 restaurant, by Mr. Andy Alvarez to open, because of
09:54:45 the parking that we experience daily in Westland.
09:54:49 And we waited 25 years to build our law offices on 102
09:54:56 south Westland because the neighborhood was not
09:54:59 desirable.
09:55:03 If you recall Tampa, that was a very bad area.
09:55:06 Now, the City of Tampa has gone and granted all this
09:55:11 permits to build this restaurant on Kennedy.
09:55:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, council, I apologize.
09:55:16 Mr. Territo is going to chime in, and I believe it's
09:55:19 appropriate that we do so.
09:55:21 Mr. Territo?
09:55:22 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
09:55:24 This is an item that's possible may come back before

09:55:27 you as an appeal.
09:55:28 And there should be not a lot of discussion on this
09:55:31 particular issue.
09:55:33 If there's an administrative decision on it may come
09:55:36 to you at some particular point you shouldn't be
09:55:39 taking testimony on this issue until it comes before
09:55:41 you.
09:55:42 I don't want to cut anybody off but if it's under
09:55:46 appeal you cannot take any of these discussions.
09:55:49 >>> As owner of 102 --
09:55:54 Ma'am, just a second.
09:55:55 Let me hear from Mr. Dingfelder.
09:55:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: First off, ma'am, you can't talk on
09:56:03 this because it might mess up the record down the
09:56:04 road.
09:56:05 But I just want to get a clarification, because you
09:56:08 need to hear this.
09:56:09 Can this administrative decision -- we have a new
09:56:14 process.
09:56:14 Can the administrative decision be appealed to City
09:56:17 Council?
09:56:21 Julia or Rebecca?

09:56:23 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
09:56:25 The first avenue of appeal would be to the BLC or the
09:56:27 ARC and that decision could ultimately be appealed to
09:56:32 you.
09:56:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So, ma'am, you need to speak with
09:56:36 the nice young lady that just spoke, Rebecca, because
09:56:39 there is a possibility of appeal, but there's a
09:56:41 procedure.
09:56:43 Okay.
09:56:43 And this isn't the right procedure today.
09:56:44 >>> Okay.
09:56:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if I may.
09:56:48 >>MARY MULHERN: I had some questions for legal.
09:56:51 Can I?
09:56:54 Can I have my questions before?
09:56:56 I think what I would like clarified for the people who
09:56:59 came here to speak is this was listed -- noticed as a
09:57:03 public hearing on our agenda, right?
09:57:09 So I don't understand that that could be -- was this
09:57:18 just a mistake that it was noticed as a public
09:57:20 hearing?
09:57:20 How did it get on here?

09:57:22 Because they came here to speak on it thinking it was
09:57:25 something we were going to vote on, and then ware told
09:57:27 we are not voting on it.
09:57:28 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
09:57:33 This originally was scheduled as a public hearing.
09:57:34 Due to some change in the code it no longer is.
09:57:37 If you can allow us to get more information about how
09:57:39 this actually happened, it was taken off your agenda
09:57:44 so late, I'll be happy to get back with you but I
09:57:46 don't have the actual background.
09:57:47 >>MARY MULHERN: I think if we are going to be pulling
09:57:50 things off because we changed the process the public
09:57:52 needs to be notified before it's pulled off the
09:57:56 agenda.
09:58:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, this is a strange occurrence
09:58:02 because of the change in your code.
09:58:04 And obviously it's causing difficulty.
09:58:08 But I believe the correct course of action today would
09:58:13 be for the people who are here to speak on those items
09:58:15 that have been administratively approved to be able to
09:58:18 talk with the staff, to be able to find out what the
09:58:20 procedure is, to be able to address those concerns.

09:58:25 And with regard to anybody who wishes to speak in the
09:58:27 future, to be able to speak to those items that you do
09:58:31 not do so because of the fact that the council may be
09:58:34 acting as an appellate body, and finally, council, I
09:58:37 would just council you that those discussions that you
09:58:41 have heard related to these issues, that when the time
09:58:45 should come, if it should come, that I would remind
09:58:48 you at that time to disregard whatever you heard
09:58:50 previously and just base your decision on what you
09:58:52 hear at that hearing at that time.
09:58:55 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department again.
09:58:56 To answer your questions.
09:58:57 We don't -- everybody here today was informed before
09:59:01 today that it was going to be pulled.
09:59:05 I was told that by the applicant.
09:59:06 Now whether that's exactly accurate, the people that
09:59:09 are here were told that this was going to be pulled.
09:59:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, listen, we can't get into a long
09:59:13 debate.
09:59:15 We have a time constraint.
09:59:16 What I would suggest is that you all meet with staff,
09:59:19 meet with the attorney, meet with them and get all the

09:59:22 information, because you are going to jeopardize -- if
09:59:25 you continue to talk about this you are jeopardizing
09:59:27 your case.
09:59:27 >> Way want to say, I want to thank Ms. Mulhern for
09:59:33 saying that we should have been notified.
09:59:35 We were not notified.
09:59:37 I personally called Mr. Steven Michelin.
09:59:45 I called him and I inquired about it.
09:59:48 And I did so on Wednesday afternoon.
09:59:50 Not because we were notified.
09:59:52 We have not ever received a notice that we were not
09:59:58 going to have this hearing.
09:59:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I apologize to all of you for
10:00:01 being here today.
10:00:02 For not getting the notice.
10:00:04 I don't know what happened.
10:00:05 But I do apologize for that.
10:00:07 And --
10:00:09 >>> Thank you.
10:00:10 We accept your apology.
10:00:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I just don't want you to damage your
10:00:14 case.

10:00:14 Fits going to come back to us.
10:00:16 >>> We will come back.
10:00:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
10:00:18 Okay?
10:00:19 Yes.
10:00:21 >>MOSES KNOTT, JR.: I reside at 2902 East Ellicott
10:00:25 Street three nights a week.
10:00:27 Then I just thank God for his grace and his mercy.
10:00:32 I wouldn't be standing here this morning if it weren't
10:00:34 for his grace and mercy.
10:00:36 You know, I always talk about prayer.
10:00:40 Now everybody needs to be on their knees.
10:00:43 There's some strong things happening in the world
10:00:45 right now.
10:00:46 I said a long time ago, I got into 24 chapter Matthew,
10:00:50 all this this stuff.
10:00:53 I studied that chapter.
10:00:54 It said it was coming.
10:00:56 Now it's here.
10:00:59 Revelations.
10:00:59 But anyway, though, Mr. Chairman, I want to talk about
10:01:05 that kick ball thing this morning.

10:01:06 I was going to talk about something else.
10:01:08 But when you brought that up, you know it made my
10:01:11 blood boil those people come over to tell me what was
10:01:13 happening with that deal, you know.
10:01:15 And, ooh, guess who the chairperson talking for them.
10:01:20 Mr. Fred Hearn.
10:01:22 This man retired.
10:01:23 They bring him down her again and everything.
10:01:26 Now with why?
10:01:27 Because he represents us.
10:01:29 When the city got ready to -- go home, didn't give
10:01:36 that man no award and praise and all that kind of
10:01:39 stuff.
10:01:39 But that's a great blessed man, Mr. Fred Hearn.
10:01:42 He t'was chair on this thing.
10:01:44 I want to thank God for that.
10:01:45 But let me tell you about this kick ball thing.
10:01:48 I told you about three weeks ago, I got a bunch -- got
10:01:51 about ten children of my own and got about ten more
10:01:55 God children.
10:01:55 But this athletic thing, you know, I really believe in
10:01:58 this thing.

10:01:59 Years ago, I had my business and I had a bunch of
10:02:01 money.
10:02:02 I spent over $50,000 on a softball team and won many
10:02:07 awards from the city.
10:02:08 We played at Greco park in the city.
10:02:11 But I spent a lot of money for that thing, and bought
10:02:13 all the uniforms.
10:02:17 From Mr. Mason of the City Council.
10:02:19 But I am going to help these people.
10:02:21 Because this thing is big.
10:02:22 This is a thing that's bigger than back in the days.
10:02:30 This thing is big.
10:02:32 And see neighborhoods going against one another.
10:02:35 And where my heart go out, these young ladies have
10:02:39 nothing to do.
10:02:42 All come down here and talk with you all and go back
10:02:44 home.
10:02:45 I'm a bicycle rider.
10:02:47 I have bicycle tracks over there.
10:02:49 I go in you all's part of town and ride bicycles.
10:02:53 We don't have facilities over there. We don't have a
10:02:55 place to play kick ball at.

10:02:56 But this thing is big.
10:02:57 When I heard you were on the radio this morning about
10:03:00 the mayor told them they can go ahead and play.
10:03:03 But if it weren't for Mr. Fred Hearn they would have
10:03:06 got it.
10:03:06 Like I said.
10:03:07 And this morning, I want to say Mr. Curtis Lane, I
10:03:10 want to say congratulations to him.
10:03:12 And the man come out of here with clean hands.
10:03:18 It wasn't all bloody like that thing started years
10:03:21 ago.
10:03:21 You know, this morning I see all of you this morning,
10:03:24 I counted about 8, 9,000 wood frame houses torn down.
10:03:31 I thought about that.
10:03:32 And this morning, there's one man this morning, Mr.
10:03:36 Harold Scott, another black man.
10:03:38 Now, when he retired --
10:03:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Knott, your time is actually up.
10:03:44 I don't know why the buzzer didn't go off.
10:03:47 Red light went off.
10:03:48 I apologize for you not hearing the buzzer but thank
10:03:50 you very much.

10:03:51 Next speaker.
10:03:57 >>> Diane Simons.
10:03:59 My property is 2124 West Kennedy Boulevard in Tampa.
10:04:02 And I am here.
10:04:03 But I am not going to address certain issues on number
10:04:06 99 item.
10:04:07 I just wanted to let you know that on the public
10:04:13 hearing notice, it does state that you need to call
10:04:21 touch see what the stat success on the agenda.
10:04:24 And called like two days before.
10:04:25 And I did find out by myself that this was already
10:04:28 administratively approved.
10:04:30 And at the time I have a list of 17 phone calls within
10:04:34 48 hours to the department to speak with Ms. Catherine
10:04:38 Coyle.
10:04:39 On one occasion I reached her, she told me that she
10:04:43 would call me back after her lunch.
10:04:45 I never received a phone call from her.
10:04:47 Yesterday I spoke with Ms. Moreda who is her
10:04:52 supervisor and she told me they are going to have a
10:04:55 meeting regarding this in the office yesterday.
10:04:57 Due to some additions to this project.

10:05:01 And that the meeting -- that this had been
10:05:05 administratively approved, and therefore there would
10:05:07 be no meeting.
10:05:09 So sometimes even though it says to try to check, I
10:05:13 try to do the right thing, according to this, it is
10:05:16 not easy to gets into these departments to talk to the
10:05:19 person to find out what is actually going on.
10:05:21 So I would appreciate that, at least being addressed,
10:05:24 and I will carry forward with additional whatever we
10:05:28 are going to find out from this person.
10:05:29 So thank you very much.
10:05:30 >> Thank you, ma'am.
10:05:36 Ask.
10:05:36 >> My name is Lee small.
10:05:40 I am against the boating procedure, what the agenda is
10:05:48 today.
10:05:48 It's quite unclear to me about the taxing method and
10:05:56 I'm trying to protect my children and myself from an
10:05:59 extensive debt that could be incurred because of the
10:06:05 canal dredging.
10:06:07 And Sunset Park homeowners association has two
10:06:12 resolutions and I would like to have the permission to

10:06:15 submit to the exhibits for the record copies of this
10:06:20 resolution.
10:06:22 I know I have a small amount of time.
10:06:24 But I would like to read first of all the two portions
10:06:30 which is sort of the two resolutions.
10:06:35 And this is passed by the homeowners association.
10:06:39 Resolved that the Sunset Park homeowners homeowners
10:06:43 association requests that the City of Tampa use the
10:06:46 1.3 million congressional environmental grants, plus
10:06:51 the 1 million matching amounts from the City of Tampa
10:06:53 to fully dredge the five priority bodies of water
10:06:57 named in the original funding request dated March 10,
10:07:02 two of before using any of the funds to dredge other
10:07:06 bodies of water in South Tampa.
10:07:07 That was passed in January in the Sunset Park
10:07:12 homeowners association.
10:07:14 The second resolution the same date, resolved that the
10:07:18 Sunset Park area homeowners association does not
10:07:22 endorse the present plan to set up a special taxing
10:07:26 district for canal dredging in the Westshore area and
10:07:30 urges the City of Tampa to take responsibility for
10:07:33 cleaning up and maintaining all canals and estuaries

10:07:37 and receive stormwater run-off from other parts of the
10:07:40 city.
10:07:43 My son is a lawyer.
10:07:44 I wish he would help me with this.
10:07:46 He's really funny about it.
10:07:49 He took the words submerged land and gave it a nice
10:07:54 definition so that it was indeed very helpful that I
10:07:59 wouldn't be and he wouldn't be in the future of my
10:08:03 grandchildren involved in having to deal with sediment
10:08:06 that has accumulated over time and make it so -- I
10:08:11 have a canoe.
10:08:12 The other gentleman had a bicycle.
10:08:14 I don't have a yacht.
10:08:15 I don't care to have one.
10:08:16 And I don't want to have the sediment so I can't use
10:08:19 my canoe.
10:08:21 I want it clean, too.
10:08:22 But who is going to pay for it?
10:08:24 I don't have to pay for cleaning the streets in front
10:08:26 of me.
10:08:27 Why should I have to clean the sediment that piles up
10:08:32 from God only knows where?

10:08:37 I have walked up and down with my neighbor.
10:08:41 And by the way, the neighbors do not know about this.
10:08:44 They are not canal captains.
10:08:46 So you are dividing a lovely neighborhood.
10:08:49 And I think like the kick ball issue, we want to have
10:08:53 things together.
10:08:53 We want harmony.
10:08:55 If I were a politician I would not want to get into
10:08:57 this, because it's an unpleasant thing.
10:09:00 If we could turn this around in a nice, peaceful
10:09:04 project, and have the city take responsibility for the
10:09:07 future.
10:09:11 Thank you very much.
10:09:11 And I would like permission to pass out these
10:09:14 resolutions.
10:09:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
10:09:19 How many more people standing want to speak to address
10:09:21 council?
10:09:21 30 minutes is up and we allocated -- let me see your
10:09:25 hands.
10:09:32 >>GWEN MILLER: I see nine.
10:09:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seven?

10:09:34 What I would like to do is allow them to speak but
10:09:37 give them two minutes.
10:09:44 So what I will do is allow the next seven speakers two
10:09:51 minutes each.
10:09:51 Okay?
10:09:54 Go ahead.
10:09:58 Come on, next speaker.
10:10:00 >> My name is Kristina Hendry, I live at 628 Jamaica
10:10:04 Avenue on Currituck channel.
10:10:11 The last I heard, out of the plan, I haven't Hurd
10:10:15 anything different.
10:10:16 If it comes up it's different, I would like another
10:10:18 opportunity to speak.
10:10:19 Regarding the 2.4 which is involved in the plan that
10:10:22 you are going to vote on, that was allocated for five
10:10:26 priority water bodies and Currituck channel, the one
10:10:30 that I live on, is one of those five water bodies.
10:10:33 I am not an environmentalist.
10:10:36 I wasn't involved in getting that money.
10:10:38 Maybe it's because somebody allowed the airport to
10:10:40 fill in part of that canal for the runways way back
10:10:43 and they feel some responsibility to clean up.

10:10:45 Maybe because it's a flow-through, and not good for
10:10:50 the estuaries.
10:10:51 I don't really know.
10:10:52 But I know it is one of the priority water bodies.
10:10:55 At the plant high school meeting I asked chuck Walter,
10:10:59 okay, in the grand plan that was presented there,
10:11:03 Currituck channel would be addressed.
10:11:05 It was one of the channels to be addressed with the
10:11:09 federal grant money, they called it.
10:11:11 And I asked him, I said, what if this plan does not
10:11:14 pass?
10:11:15 He said, regardless of whether this plan passes or
10:11:18 not, those yellow highlighted on that plan would be
10:11:23 addressed.
10:11:24 Okay.
10:11:24 Wonderful.
10:11:25 So I'm here just to make sure that just because Davis
10:11:32 Island is out of the plan we are not retaliated
10:11:34 against and Currituck channel is left out of federal
10:11:38 and spending plan.
10:11:40 Now, the other thing I want to point out to you is if
10:11:42 you allow any of that $2.4 million to be applied with

10:11:50 this plan that they are voting on and not on the five
10:11:54 party water bodies, it made me think how much money
10:11:57 you all approved for a Ballast Point park and I think
10:12:02 that's wonderful, but I'm thinking, you know, Davis
10:12:05 Island pool needs a lot of money and what if I get 60%
10:12:08 of my neighbors to agree to put up $8,000.
10:12:11 Can I come here, and we'll ask you to give us that
10:12:15 Ballast Point park money instead, because we are
10:12:18 willing to put up $8,000?
10:12:21 Now, I don't think you would do that.
10:12:23 And I don't think you should do that just because we
10:12:26 are talking about canals, because we are talking about
10:12:29 stormwater sediment, it comes from everybody.
10:12:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:12:38 >> My name is Frank gather ler, my family and I reside
10:12:45 at 4708 -- west bayway drive.
10:12:49 I I am one of the effected property own hoarse would
10:12:52 like to get the sediment removed from my waterway
10:12:54 behind my house.
10:12:55 If you ask me do I want the city to pay for it?
10:12:58 Absolutely, positively, but that's not why we are here
10:13:00 today. We are here today to take a baby step.

10:13:02 The only question you are being asked and I'm
10:13:04 referencing item number 35, is whether you are going
10:13:06 to approve a voting procedure that has been
10:13:12 recommended by staff.
10:13:13 I urge you to approve that voting procedure so that we
10:13:15 can move forward on this, regardless of the ultimate
10:13:19 outcome.
10:13:19 We are not here today to decide who has jurisdiction
10:13:23 over the waterways.
10:13:24 We are not here today to ask the attorney general to
10:13:26 decide if you need a permit from the Tampa port
10:13:28 authority, from the state, or from anybody else, Army
10:13:34 corps of engineers.
10:13:35 Those are not the issues before you.
10:13:36 We are not here today to decide where the money should
10:13:39 come from.
10:13:40 We are just here to decide on a voting procedure.
10:13:42 I strongly urge you to adopt the procedure.
10:13:45 Thank you.
10:13:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
10:13:47 >> My name is Marlin Anderson, president of the sunset
10:13:53 homeowners park association.

10:13:55 Here to speak on agenda item number 35.
10:13:57 I have a little financial analysis.
10:14:00 I have eight copies.
10:14:03 I just want to talk about it because when talked about
10:14:08 this $8,000.
10:14:09 We we just want to go with the numbers.
10:14:14 I'm a practicing CPA, by the way, so I have a little
10:14:18 bit of knowledge of this type of stuff.
10:14:19 I looked over everything that the stormwater
10:14:22 department put together, and it's basically $6.3
10:14:25 million now.
10:14:26 I put it on here and it will show up?
10:14:29 If you take that $6.3 million which is a total amount
10:14:35 which you have seen over and over as far as the cost
10:14:36 of this project, subtract 2.3 million which is 1.3
10:14:41 million grant plus a $1 million match, $4 million, the
10:14:47 estimated 500 canal property owners would participate
10:14:50 to about $8,000.
10:14:52 However, that is all predicated upon the $2.3 million
10:14:57 all going to the canal property owners.
10:15:00 But in fact, they are going to be spending a
10:15:02 substantial amount of that $2.3 million on

10:15:06 environmental things such as oyster shells, mangroves
10:15:11 and other items to take care of the environment.
10:15:14 How can you do that?
10:15:15 I just wanted you to see that part.
10:15:17 Thank you.
10:15:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:15:19 Next speaker.
10:15:27 >>> Good morning.
10:15:28 Ely Montague, browning Avenue.
10:15:31 I do not live on the canal but I'm very concerned
10:15:33 about the $1.2 million that was fought for and awarded
10:15:40 for our estuaries.
10:15:42 I am going to have some papers submitted, with your
10:15:46 permission.
10:15:47 I apologize.
10:15:49 I sent them at 4:00 this morning and I hope you read
10:15:53 them.
10:15:53 They are very important and they did pertain to what
10:15:58 Mrs. Garcia told you about the submerged land.
10:16:05 To permit a tax to be put in place to assess people,
10:16:09 even one person against their will to dredge their
10:16:12 canal is not legal.

10:16:14 Not only that, it is not right to charge those areas
10:16:19 who would be subsidizing other larger canals messed up
10:16:24 by the city stormwater drainage from a huge watershed
10:16:28 than theirs.
10:16:29 $8,000 to dredge down the middle plus an unknown
10:16:32 amount to dredge to their dock.
10:16:38 I wish I could have a little time.
10:16:40 Then another unknown continued charge to maintain at
10:16:43 5% interest.
10:16:45 If you cannot afford to pay after 20 years, these
10:16:51 notices, you want to send out when people are out of
10:16:53 town, on vacation is a bad timing, in June and July.
10:16:58 So I hear they found a loop hole to use the
10:17:02 environmental grant of 1.3, asking 1 million, and
10:17:07 awarded for "sediment removal forest wares at the head
10:17:11 waters off the canals."
10:17:14 They changed the words to put "in" and it was not in
10:17:18 the original wording so the words have been changed.
10:17:20 Further, the city environmental program manager at the
10:17:24 time stated in her letter to Mr. Walters, quote, in
10:17:27 our original funding request we identified five
10:17:29 priority water bodies that would be addressed, Spring

10:17:32 Lake channel, Lake Kipling, Lake Dundee, Neptune
10:17:38 lagoon and Currituck channel. Other estuaries may be
10:17:40 included if the budget is sufficient.
10:17:46 How the city can justify using federal grant money to
10:17:49 help a few people get their boats out, I have papers
10:17:53 to show you the case of others who were attempting to
10:17:55 do such.
10:17:58 And I'm sorry I can't tell you the rest of it better.
10:18:01 I hope you will take into consideration all of those
10:18:03 things and read the papers I sent you.
10:18:06 Thank you very much.
10:18:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much, ma'am.
10:18:19 >> Joe Robinson, Palmetto street, speaking on item 35,
10:18:23 0, 81, 85, on the northwest Hillsborough basin board
10:18:27 vice chair.
10:18:27 We have funded what we could.
10:18:30 There's an issue with what we can fund.
10:18:32 Staff recommended limited funding for these canals.
10:18:35 Because of some technical difficulties as far as
10:18:38 definition of whether we can fund them at all.
10:18:40 However, I did have my staff look at the dredge
10:18:44 material that the city is going to have to dredge the

10:18:46 canals and there's a possibility we can put them out
10:18:50 when -- need to be repealed so may cut some costs
10:18:54 there.
10:18:55 But I have gotten the SWFWMD basin board and our staff
10:18:59 to do the best we can but we got the grant money.
10:19:02 That's my first minute.
10:19:03 So that's saying we have done the best we can do.
10:19:07 Just keep moving forward and let those people have a
10:19:09 vote whether they want it or not.
10:19:11 Moving along on item number 81.
10:19:16 If you can turn the overhead on.
10:19:19 There's some very minor changes.
10:19:21 In one minute, we looked at it but basically here it
10:19:24 talks about domicile, suggesting that it said the
10:19:28 majority of a business, lawful permanent resident of
10:19:33 the State of Florida and lawfully licensed, within the
10:19:36 relevant jurisdiction having offices located within
10:19:39 the relevant jurisdiction.
10:19:40 So that's one minor change to make sure that said
10:19:43 person had a license.
10:19:44 Then they lose it for some reason but someone else,
10:19:47 you don't put them out of business.

10:19:49 You can get someone else to do it.
10:19:52 All of us don't have licenses that also own the
10:19:54 business.
10:19:55 The other issue on page 10 is they had a typo, the
10:19:59 number of employees.
10:20:01 I am suggesting that was a typo.
10:20:03 Just take that out.
10:20:05 Had nothing to do with the gross receipts.
10:20:07 As far as the definition, the parenthesis.
10:20:14 And the final item, Reverend Scott, that you have been
10:20:16 parking on and we had this problem over at Tampa
10:20:19 general, I'm still investigating that.
10:20:21 But what it says on page 12, subcontracts awarded.
10:20:25 That's great to talk about awards.
10:20:27 But what really counts sentence what's paid.
10:20:30 So the suggestion is that only do the report on the
10:20:34 dollars awarded but dollars paid, because so many
10:20:37 times, you say you have a million dollar contract.
10:20:39 But they only receive in the contract of 300,000 and
10:20:43 maybe not even at all.
10:20:47 It just tells you what can occur.
10:20:49 Dollars paid tells what you did occur.

10:20:50 And that's one of the suggestions staff agreed to.
10:20:53 With that I say let's move forward with it and approve
10:20:55 it.
10:21:00 >> My name is Matthew Hoffmann.
10:21:03 I live at 5014 west Riviera and I am an affected
10:21:06 property owner of the dredging of the canals.
10:21:10 I too would love not to have to pay a dime for these
10:21:12 canals to be restored and be able to use them but I
10:21:15 know that's not the issue at hand nor a way to
10:21:17 progress forward and achieve this.
10:21:19 The only issue the previous speaker mentioned before
10:21:23 you on item 35 is the method of voting.
10:21:25 I would encourage you to pass on that and approve it
10:21:28 so that we can move this process forward and give the
10:21:32 opportunity.
10:21:32 A lot of other issues have been raised today about
10:21:35 about how it should be done, what money should be
10:21:37 used, and all we ask is that you approve that
10:21:39 resolution so we have the opportunity to vote and
10:21:42 decide whether we want to pay that money or don't want
10:21:45 to pay that money.
10:21:46 It's a democratic process.

10:21:48 Please don't put any more delays in this.
10:21:50 We have been working on it a long time and would love
10:21:52 to enjoy the waterways that Tampa has to offer in our
10:21:54 lifetime.
10:21:55 Thank you.
10:22:05 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 south Sherill.
10:22:08 I stood up to thank council members who could be with
10:22:10 us last night and also invited with us.
10:22:16 We thought we had a wonderful event, and we missed
10:22:23 those of you who are here that couldn't be with us,
10:22:25 and of course Linda.
10:22:26 But as I stood there, as things were moving along, I
10:22:30 heard the concerns about administrative approval.
10:22:36 And over the years, those have gotten more and more
10:22:40 and more of your authority being turned over to the
10:22:43 administration.
10:22:46 I can't go into what happened just in this last week,
10:22:51 but this administrative approval is getting out of
10:22:54 hand.
10:22:58 I like the administration, but evidently they have
10:23:01 been given too much authority to do things without the
10:23:03 input from the public.

10:23:05 So I would only ask council to please reconsider
10:23:10 administrative approvals because it's getting too easy
10:23:13 to get approvals, and then those neighborhoods that
10:23:17 are affected really don't have the money to go through
10:23:19 the process.
10:23:22 If it goes on like this, it should come back directly
10:23:24 to council without that neighborhoods can appeal
10:23:31 directly to council and not go through the VRB process
10:23:35 as well.
10:23:35 Please consider that.
10:23:36 Thank you.
10:23:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:23:40 And last night the 20th anniversary.
10:23:47 Great turnout.
10:23:48 Great celebration.
10:23:49 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I would like to respectfully
10:23:51 request.
10:23:51 I sent you an e-mail requesting that item 72 be moved
10:23:54 to May 22nd to be incorporated into the workshop.
10:23:58 And I don't know if you have taken that action or not
10:24:00 yet.
10:24:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Those items addressed on the changes

10:24:05 on the addendum, and so we voted already to add that
10:24:13 to the agenda and the changes.
10:24:14 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Also, I don't know, it's 10:00 now
10:24:19 and I respectfully request that you open item 94 and
10:24:22 99 and continue that hearing until the middle of
10:24:27 September.
10:24:30 On item 94, and to move 99 from your agenda.
10:24:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Shelby, did we take them up?
10:24:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You didn't take them up.
10:24:49 The items set for a time certain, we did not take
10:24:52 those up.
10:24:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We take them up at that time.
10:24:54 All right.
10:24:54 >> If you wish to do so.
10:25:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let me run the meeting.
10:25:03 We have other time certains at 9:30.
10:25:07 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Yes, sir.
10:25:08 The staff was waiting particularly on 94.
10:25:11 And I didn't want to tie them up waiting for that
10:25:13 continuance.
10:25:14 We do have support from the neighborhood association.
10:25:16 We noticed everybody in the neighborhood association,

10:25:19 sent a postcard to I think 800 some odd people
10:25:24 indicating we would be requesting a continuance.
10:25:27 And I think you were copied on a lot of that
10:25:29 correspondence.
10:25:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:25:31 We'll take those up just shortly.
10:25:33 Thank you.
10:25:35 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to ask, when we approve
10:25:37 the agenda, there was an item that I would like to
10:25:40 have removed from the consent agenda.
10:25:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.
10:25:46 >>MARY MULHERN: Are we still on the public hearings?
10:25:49 >> No.
10:25:49 He's the last speaker.
10:25:50 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
10:25:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, and members of council,
10:25:56 on the second page of the addendum I did not ask,
10:25:58 there was a memorandum from council member Mulhern
10:26:01 requesting that item number 35 regarding the voting
10:26:04 procedures for the waterways program be pulled for
10:26:05 discussion.
10:26:06 And that's a request.

10:26:10 >>MARY MULHERN: And I would like to ask that we do
10:26:12 that as soon as possible, put that at the beginning
10:26:15 after we have done our time certain things, because we
10:26:18 have so many people from the public here who have
10:26:22 already spoken on this so I would like them to have
10:26:24 the benefit of hearing our discussion.
10:26:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:26:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is that by unanimous consent that
10:26:33 council will pull that item?
10:26:36 Do you want to have a motion on that?
10:26:37 >> Yes, let's take a motion.
10:26:39 >> So moved.
10:26:39 >> Second.
10:26:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor let it be known by Aye.
10:26:42 Opposes?
10:26:43 So we will do that.
10:26:44 All right.
10:26:46 Thank you.
10:26:47 That ends our public comment.
10:26:49 We have a time certain on item 81 which is the
10:26:52 ordinance on the WMBE, item 81, a 9:30 time certain.
10:27:04 So Mr. Smith, Toyin, whoever is going to come.

10:27:11 Council, that item is time certain for 9:30.
10:27:14 Let me pass out my recommended changes on there.
10:27:16 I think we can move with the first reading today on
10:27:19 the ordinance.
10:27:38 Did you get a copy of the recommended changes?
10:27:41 >>> No, sir.
10:27:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On section 26.5-3, I'm asking that the
10:27:49 sentence be added to the report, disparate analysis,
10:27:53 the recommendation be included.
10:27:54 Section 26.5-16, strike from that "or may not."
10:28:05 That's on the bottom, on the bottom.
10:28:09 Okay.
10:28:09 And Mr. Robinson mentioned several suggestions, I
10:28:13 understand.
10:28:14 For the record have you incorporated those already?
10:28:18 >>TOYIN AINA HARGRETT: I have taken the list and they
10:28:20 all seem to be nonsubstantive changes so we have made
10:28:24 note of those.
10:28:25 I just got back.
10:28:26 >> So they can be added between now and second
10:28:29 reading.
10:28:30 >>> Yes.

10:28:30 Those changes can be appropriately incorporated.
10:28:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The last one I have is on the domicile
10:28:36 issue.
10:28:37 You all changed, I guess, the description.
10:28:40 We had Pinellas, Pasco, and now you said close
10:28:44 proximity.
10:28:45 I don't know what that means, because to me, Orlando
10:28:49 is close.
10:28:49 >>TOYIN AINA HARGRETT: It's not our intention to have
10:28:54 Orlando be included in that definition.
10:28:56 It would still be the five-county area that we have
10:28:59 been using historically for SBE programs.
10:29:03 Those would be incorporated for the programs so
10:29:06 Hillsborough, Pinellas, Pasco, Polk, I think --
10:29:11 >> Will you add those five counties in, or leave the
10:29:14 definition as --
10:29:17 >>TOYIN AINA HARGRETT: We would like to leave it as is
10:29:19 because that will give us the flexibility by
10:29:21 regulation later on, if it's deemed to be appropriate
10:29:24 to expand that area.
10:29:25 But if it not appropriate to expand it, we can also
10:29:29 keep it where it is right now.

10:29:30 >> Let me be clear.
10:29:33 If I submit a bid from Orlando and then ruled it is
10:29:41 out of the district bound boundary, I can challenge
10:29:46 that?
10:29:48 >>> No, sir.
10:29:48 There's going to be supporting regulations which will
10:29:51 solidify that.
10:29:52 What we are doing is we are trying to keep this clear
10:29:54 for our purposes so that it's also a little flexible
10:29:58 when determining what our market study area is.
10:30:00 As you know, we cannot necessarily solidify that at
10:30:04 every moment throughout the year.
10:30:06 >> Well, I just want to say from my perspective, I
10:30:12 have reviewed the current ordinance.
10:30:15 I am ready for to the move forward.
10:30:19 I recommend these two changes.
10:30:21 And the one that is Mr. Robinson spoke of this morning
10:30:27 will be incorporated between now and second reading.
10:30:29 Let me just say, council, a lot of work has been put
10:30:32 into this.
10:30:34 I will say that given the legal parameters we have a
10:30:37 working document that we can move forward on.

10:30:40 It is not a cure-all.
10:30:42 But it is a document that can help, and it will help
10:30:46 small businesses, it will help minorities as well.
10:30:53 So it is a very good ordinance I think we can move
10:30:58 forward given the legal parameters.
10:30:59 So I want to thank Mr. Smith, our city attorney, Ms.
10:31:05 Hargrett, Mr. Shelby and City Council.
10:31:07 Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:31:09 >>MARY MULHERN: I went through the whole thing.
10:31:12 And my only change was something that Mr. Robinson
10:31:16 mentioned, that I think what we need to have is copies
10:31:20 of the checks, or the invoices, and we have to follow
10:31:24 up with that, because I know from talking to some
10:31:29 local businesses, that's been a problem with big
10:31:32 contractors.
10:31:37 And I want to thank Reverend Scott and Ms. Hargrett
10:31:41 and Mr. Smith and Mr. Shelby for doing all this work,
10:31:44 and Mr. Robinson and the committee that helped put
10:31:47 this together, too.
10:31:50 >>TOYIN AINA HARGRETT: Without going on too much about
10:31:51 it, the issue about the amount awarded and the amount
10:31:55 paid, that would have been included in your report,

10:31:57 but we are thankful to Mr. Robinson for bringing that
10:32:01 because that is something certainly that we talked
10:32:02 about for a significant amount of time.
10:32:04 It is important.
10:32:07 So we accept that change.
10:32:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So thank you again, Mr. And the
10:32:15 administration.
10:32:16 And again wave to look at this on the budget to make
10:32:18 sure that this department is adequately funded,
10:32:21 because he cannot implement what we are actually going
10:32:25 to do.
10:32:26 And you haven't accomplished anything.
10:32:27 So you have to really take a look at this so we make
10:32:30 sure that we equip them and empower him to move
10:32:35 forward and accomplish what needs to be done.
10:32:37 With that being said, I am going to ask Ms. Mill fer
10:32:42 she will read the ordinance.
10:32:43 >>> If I may.
10:32:46 I have been advised shortly before I came up here that
10:32:49 there might be one other required change which is that
10:32:51 we included DBE as part of the language in this.
10:32:59 So if you would give us the opportunity to make sure

10:33:02 that the DBE definition is not the defining
10:33:05 definition, make that selection so that our program
10:33:09 makes sense.
10:33:09 If we left the DBE language in there, basically what
10:33:13 happens is we open up the door to SBEs and that's
10:33:17 not what we are trying to do so if you give us that
10:33:20 liberty.
10:33:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So you want to bring it back?
10:33:26 >>TOYIN AINA HARGRETT: No, we don't need to bring it
10:33:27 back.
10:33:28 That's just a typo.
10:33:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:33:31 All right.
10:33:32 >>GWEN MILLER: An ordinance for fired reading, an
10:33:35 ordinance of the Tampa City Council chapter 26.5 City
10:33:38 of Tampa code of ordinances requiring equal employment
10:33:41 opportunity, prohibiting discrimination in public
10:33:45 contracting and procurement, establishing programs for
10:33:48 small local business enterprises, including reporting
10:33:51 requirements and other race and gender-neutral means
10:33:54 to eliminate discrimination creating a standby women
10:33:58 and minority business enterprise program, and

10:34:00 repealing all ordinances or parts of ordinances in
10:34:03 conflict therewith, providing an effective date.
10:34:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:34:07 Moved by Mrs. Miller, seconded by Mr. Miranda.
10:34:10 Council member Miranda.
10:34:11 All in favor let it be known by Aye.
10:34:14 Opposes?
10:34:14 So moved.
10:34:15 When will second reading take place?
10:34:17 I think June 5th this?
10:34:21 >>THE CLERK: The second reading of the ordinance will
10:34:22 be held June 5th at 9:30 a.m.
10:34:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
10:34:31 We now need to take up those items at time certain
10:34:44 Mr. Michelini, 94 and 99.
10:34:50 Actually 94.
10:34:56 Can I have a motion?
10:34:57 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I think on 94 I need a date from
10:35:04 the clerk when you are meeting the middle part of
10:35:06 September.
10:35:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a point of order on 94.
10:35:19 I think it's usually protocol especially in our night

10:35:22 meetings, but if he's asking for a continuance, and
10:35:27 they should be given the opportunity to speak limited
10:35:29 to the continue answer issue.
10:35:31 I don't know if the other one is controversial but I
10:35:34 know 94 is.
10:35:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Why don't you take them up
10:35:37 individually.
10:35:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 94.
10:35:39 Anyone here want to address council on 94?
10:35:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Only on the continuance.
10:35:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On the continuance, right.
10:35:46 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 south Sherill.
10:35:49 I think you have a letter from Emmy Reynolds, the
10:35:52 president of Beach Park homeowners association.
10:35:54 As she said in the letter the board had not had time
10:35:57 to meet, and support the continuance.
10:36:04 We feel anyway though you will grant the continuance
10:36:06 but we are most upset about it.
10:36:07 This has been dragging on now, they first applied last
10:36:12 march, so we began letting the neighborhood know that
10:36:15 a hearing would be coming up, and it was only, I
10:36:19 think, in response to my requesting how long can you

10:36:24 continue a request of when they decided to set this
10:36:29 date, and everyone was notified.
10:36:32 So things have happened in these last 14 months, and
10:36:39 that's why I know that I hope -- you are going to
10:36:44 grant it today but I would hope you would not grant
10:36:47 them another appeal -- I mean another continuance,
10:36:49 because they have had 14 months to get their case
10:36:53 together, and we don't understand why after all this
10:36:56 time they are asking for this.
10:36:58 And those are just my comments.
10:37:00 Thank you.
10:37:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, if we can have a motion
10:37:05 to open the public hearing.
10:37:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
10:37:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:37:09 (Motion carried).
10:37:11 >>> 5206 Neptune way.
10:37:13 There was an article in the Tribune on March 17th,
10:37:18 2007 that reported that he was the counselor for
10:37:23 Henderson and Hickey, and we had a lot of trouble
10:37:27 getting a lot of people here today, getting
10:37:32 babysitters and so on, and we would like a specific

10:37:34 date.
10:37:35 I am going to be out of the country in September and I
10:37:38 have worked long and hard.
10:37:40 And so you can see that these continuances are a
10:37:44 burden on the people who have made plans to come here.
10:37:47 And I hope there won't be another.
10:37:49 Thank you.
10:37:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
10:37:55 >> Susan champion.
10:37:58 1010 north Highland Avenue.
10:38:00 If it is continued to could I be notified?
10:38:03 I don't live in the area but I drive down and enjoy
10:38:06 the area.
10:38:07 I could be put on the list if there are continuances?
10:38:09 Because I wasn't notified.
10:38:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If you don't meet the legal
10:38:13 requirement there's not an obligation to do that but
10:38:16 you can talk to the petitioner and certainly he can
10:38:18 agree to do that.
10:38:19 >>STEVE MICHELINI: And we have her address.
10:38:21 We will certainly send her a courtesy notice.
10:38:25 In our communication with you, with the Beach Park

10:38:27 homeowners association, we asked for a one-time
10:38:29 continuance, no more.
10:38:31 So we are not backing down from that.
10:38:33 I also committed not to discuss the case at all beyond
10:38:37 the continuance.
10:38:38 And we mailed at our expense a postcard to every
10:38:41 member of the Beach Park homeowners association.
10:38:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:38:46 Anyone else?
10:38:49 >> If September doesn't work and she's back in
10:38:51 October, I don't know what her schedule is.
10:38:55 But 90 days basically fall as round the middle of
10:38:59 September.
10:39:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just out of curiosity, are there
10:39:08 other folks here on this issue today?
10:39:09 Just raise your hand.
10:39:11 94.
10:39:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 94.
10:39:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I heard a lot of people in the
10:39:18 community just generically, you know, sort of buzzing.
10:39:22 I haven't spoken with them individually.
10:39:23 But I'm just thinking that if we grant the

10:39:26 continuance, we should shift to the a night meeting,
10:39:29 because that would be convenient to the community so
10:39:34 that everybody and anybody could be able to come and
10:39:36 tell us, testify in regard to how they feel for or
10:39:40 against this.
10:39:43 I don't hear strong, strong opinions against granting
10:39:46 the continuance.
10:39:47 I think, Bobby, you indicated all of September you are
10:39:51 going to be gone?
10:39:57 So maybe the end of September.
10:40:01 25th.
10:40:01 So I'll move -- is there a night meeting on the
10:40:05 25th?
10:40:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, there's a night meeting.
10:40:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My motion will be to move this to a
10:40:09 night meeting on September 25th.
10:40:17 Continue this to 10-25 at night and require the
10:40:20 applicant to put up new signage and full notice, full
10:40:25 mailed notice to everybody on the list.
10:40:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The maker of the motion, I would
10:40:32 hope would you accept a friendly amendment to make it
10:40:34 number one on that evening.

10:40:37 There's a lot of interaction going on, and I'm sure
10:40:40 that would be for the benefit of all.
10:40:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think it's your district and in
10:40:45 deference --
10:40:46 >>> Did 29th and 30th?
10:40:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We could do that two weeks later.
10:40:53 Mr. Michelini indicated he didn't care.
10:40:55 So I'll modify my motion.
10:40:58 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Evening is fine, too.
10:40:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: According to the clerk's calendar the
10:41:02 next meeting in October would be October 23rd.
10:41:04 >> Next nature meeting?
10:41:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.
10:41:10 Because I guess the holidays.
10:41:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: October 23rd will be my
10:41:17 modified motion and accepting Mr. Miranda's friendly
10:41:21 amendment to be number one on the agenda, 6 p.m., new
10:41:26 signage, new notice.
10:41:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Model by councilman Dingfelder,
10:41:32 seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:41:34 So moved and ordered.
10:41:36 So item number 94.

10:41:39 Item number 98, need to open.
10:41:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So move to open.
10:41:44 >> Second.
10:41:45 (Motion carried)
10:41:52 Item 98, requesting a continuance to May 29th.
10:42:03 >> My name is Elizabeth Graham.
10:42:05 We were asked for this continuance by our neighborhood
10:42:09 so they could ask more questions and get some answers
10:42:12 so they could support us on this issue.
10:42:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Newer support of it, right?
10:42:18 >> Yes, I am in support of it.
10:42:22 We just wanted to let our neighborhood -- my husband
10:42:24 is Michael Graham.
10:42:26 So we just wanted to work with our community so that
10:42:29 they could best understand what we are asking for.
10:42:33 And so we would like to ask it be continued to May
10:42:37 29th.
10:42:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, thank you. Anyone here in
10:42:41 opposition to the continuance?
10:42:42 You are in opposition?
10:42:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The date doesn't work anyway.
10:42:52 >>THE CLERK: That's not a regular anytime meeting.

10:42:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's right.
10:42:55 What will be the next date?
10:43:12 June 5th.
10:43:14 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I was going to say either June
10:43:19 5th or June 26th.
10:43:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: June 26th is already full.
10:43:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 1:30 p.m.?
10:43:26 >> So moved.
10:43:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:43:28 Are you okay with that?
10:43:29 Fine.
10:43:30 Everybody in favor?
10:43:31 All in favor let it be known by Aye.
10:43:33 Opposed same sign.
10:43:34 So moved and ordered.
10:43:35 Item 99.
10:43:36 Do we need to take action on that?
10:43:38 We have already done that?
10:43:39 >> Item 103, I believe.
10:43:42 >> Item 103.
10:43:44 Okay.
10:43:45 Item 103.

10:43:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open the public hearing.
10:43:48 >> Second.
10:43:49 (Motion carried).
10:43:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 103.
10:43:59 >>MARK BENTLEY: 201 North Franklin Street, Tampa.
10:44:01 I represent The Towers of Channelside, petitioner in
10:44:04 connection with this item.
10:44:05 I requested a continuance to June 12 so we would have
10:44:08 the opportunity to address some concerns of the
10:44:10 homeowners association.
10:44:11 We met with them last night and they are pretty much
10:44:13 on board at this point.
10:44:14 So I request we continue to June 12th.
10:44:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in opposition to the
10:44:21 continuance?
10:44:22 Anyone here in opposition to the continuance?
10:44:24 Okay.
10:44:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: There is only a night meeting
10:44:29 scheduled with three land zonings presently at the CRA
10:44:33 day.
10:44:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The 26th of work.
10:44:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, council, we need to talk about

10:44:40 the 19th because the 26th is so full, and it's
10:44:43 going to be -- I mean, that's your last meeting before
10:44:45 break.
10:44:46 I'm requesting council have a special meeting the
10:44:48 19th because otherwise you are going to be all of
10:44:51 the 26th, moving to the 27th.
10:44:54 It's a full agenda.
10:44:59 >> There's support on this item, I'll let council
10:45:02 know.
10:45:02 However we can expedite I would appreciate it.
10:45:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Bentley, for the record would
10:45:08 you say they are pretty much on board?
10:45:10 >>> We have met with them.
10:45:12 They endorsed our petition.
10:45:13 >> Could be pretty much on board in favor or against?
10:45:17 >>MARK BENTLEY: They are in favor based upon the
10:45:18 result of our discussion last evening.
10:45:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have no problem with that.
10:45:35 >> (off microphone).
10:45:41 >>GWEN MILLER: If we have no opposition why can't we
10:45:43 do it in the morning?
10:45:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I recall, wasn't that item put

10:45:48 to the end of the meeting, June 19th?
10:45:51 I think one by Ms. Mulhern, one by the chairman to
10:45:54 discuss these items.
10:45:56 We might as well.
10:45:57 There's no other discussion by the petitioner or
10:45:59 anyone in the audience.
10:45:59 Move this to the end of the meeting so it would fall
10:46:03 within the parameters of what you said, Mr. Chairman.
10:46:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, good.
10:46:08 So we'll move this to the end of our meeting today.
10:46:10 Is that what you are saying, Mr. Miranda?
10:46:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, sir.
10:46:14 To coincide with what you wanted to do on the
10:46:16 19th.
10:46:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we'll take this up later on.
10:46:19 We have to vote on a meeting on the 19th so this
10:46:21 may be moved to that meeting.
10:46:24 >>MARK BENTLEY: So I don't have to wait around all
10:46:27 day, the issue of the 19th or the 26th?
10:46:30 >> One or the other.
10:46:31 You don't need to be here.
10:46:32 You can go.

10:46:34 Work.
10:46:37 Okay.
10:46:38 Council, let's take up now the committee reports,
10:46:43 public safety.
10:46:47 Public safety.
10:46:49 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to move items -- already
10:46:52 continued item 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10.
10:46:56 >> Second.
10:46:58 (Motion carried).
10:46:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Parks and running back ration.
10:47:01 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to move items 7 through
10:47:04 16, 17 has been removed.
10:47:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just speak on item 13 real
10:47:09 quick.
10:47:10 Item 13, I want to highlight that.
10:47:11 That is a good news item.
10:47:14 This is where we are going to have the Heros Park
10:47:19 where money is being given by the county and the city
10:47:21 collectively to build the Heros Park.
10:47:27 All that.
10:47:28 I just wanted to highlight that.
10:47:30 Okay. Second?

10:47:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:47:33 (Motion carried).
10:47:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Public works.
10:47:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move items 18 through 34 with
10:47:39 discussion on 35.
10:47:43 >> Second.
10:47:44 (Motion carried).
10:47:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The same item on number 35, the
10:47:49 questions that popped into my mind, this, if I
10:47:54 remember reading the document, said sometime the vote
10:47:58 would be in June or July.
10:47:59 Am I correct?
10:48:00 Is anyone here from the department?
10:48:03 >> Chuck Walter, Steve Daignault?
10:48:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's what I remember reading.
10:48:07 The thing that popped into my mind is usually those
10:48:09 are vacation dates and that's fine to hold an
10:48:12 election.
10:48:13 I'm not saying you shouldn't.
10:48:14 However, I hope that there is a parameter of time
10:48:17 given for the votes to be sent back.
10:48:19 I don't want a 24 hour, 48 notice because there should

10:48:24 be at least three weeks apart in case some of the
10:48:27 neighbors are out, that they have an acceptance of
10:48:31 those votes as they are recorded and turned in because
10:48:33 of the hour, you know, the time of the year that we
10:48:36 are in.
10:48:36 So I don't know if that's acceptable or not.
10:48:39 I don't know what Ms. Mulhern had other than what I am
10:48:42 saying now.
10:48:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think the motion originally was to
10:48:45 take it up under staff reports.
10:48:46 That was the motion to pull it from here and move to
10:48:49 the staff reports.
10:48:50 That's what we voted on.
10:48:52 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
10:48:53 And I think chuck Walter plans to be here.
10:48:56 >> He is here.
10:48:58 He just got in.
10:48:59 But let's do it after this.
10:49:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's take up Finance Committee.
10:49:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 36 through 43.
10:49:06 >> Second.
10:49:11 (Motion carried).

10:49:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 43 got to read by title, is that
10:49:15 right? Item 43?
10:49:16 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
10:49:23 I move a resolution amending the rules of procedure
10:49:26 rule 3-D-4 governing the order of the business of the
10:49:33 meetings of City Council of the City of Tampa
10:49:36 providing an effective date.
10:49:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I second it for discussion.
10:49:42 I have a feeling, perhaps I was out due to a family
10:49:45 emergency.
10:49:46 But what is this rule change?
10:49:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: To add 30 minutes for each workshop
10:49:53 subject.
10:49:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This is that one?
10:49:55 I'm fully in support of that.
10:49:56 (Motion carried).
10:49:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Building and zoning.
10:50:00 Mr. Joseph Caetano.
10:50:01 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I would like to
10:50:03 move 44 to 56.
10:50:05 And I think we substituted 46 and 47.
10:50:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.

10:50:14 I want to pull 46, 47 and 53 for highlighting.
10:50:20 (Motion carried)
10:50:23 Real quick, let me ask Cindy Miller to come and give
10:50:26 us a brief summary on 46 and 47, good news items with
10:50:30 affordable housing, with housing department.
10:50:33 Yes, Mrs. Miller.
10:50:34 >>CINDY MILLER: Item 46 and 47, again Cindy Miller,
10:50:38 director growth management services.
10:50:40 These items are an agreement with our Parks and
10:50:42 Recreation Department, and the Tampa housing
10:50:45 authority.
10:50:45 This is a cooperative effort to have a new community
10:50:47 center constructed, as the oaks of Riverview, the oaks
10:50:53 of Riverview community center and using federal funds
10:50:56 as well as other dollars.
10:50:57 And we think this is a marvelous cooperative effort.
10:51:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: When you have something of this
10:51:06 magnitude especially with what the housing authority
10:51:09 has done it's always good to highlight what is going
10:51:11 on, and the purpose.
10:51:12 Thank you very much.
10:51:13 On item 53, item 53, this is a refinancing by HUD,

10:51:23 realizing a savings of $1.5 million.
10:51:26 This is the Centro Ybor project.
10:51:29 Centro Ybor project in Ybor.
10:51:30 So we will save $1.5 million by HUD agreeing to
10:51:36 refinance.
10:51:37 I want to point that out K.I get a motion on those
10:51:40 three items?
10:51:40 >> So moved.
10:51:41 >> Second.
10:51:41 (Motion carried).
10:51:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:51:48 Transportation.
10:51:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move items 57 through 59.
10:51:51 >> Second.
10:51:54 (Motion carried).
10:51:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Items set for public hearing.
10:51:58 Motion?
10:51:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved items 60 through 68.
10:52:07 >>GWEN MILLER: 60 is a resolution.
10:52:13 >> So move items 63 through 68.
10:52:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:52:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor let it be known by Aye.

10:52:29 Opposes same sign.
10:52:32 Okay.
10:52:32 0.
10:52:33 Resolution.
10:52:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Do the resolution.
10:52:38 I move resolutions 60 to 63 to be heard on August
10:52:42 7th.
10:52:43 >> All in favor let it be known by Aye.
10:52:45 Opposes?
10:52:46 Okay.
10:52:49 Staff reports.
10:52:51 Take up item 35 first.
10:52:53 Is that right?
10:52:54 >> Chuck Walter, director of storm department.
10:53:15 I want top bring before you the procedure for the
10:53:16 waterway systems.
10:53:17 When we came to council establishing the waterways
10:53:20 program, and going to the property appraiser with our
10:53:23 initial notice in November and December of last year,
10:53:26 we told you that we would come back about this time of
10:53:29 year with the voting procedure so that on a canal by
10:53:32 canal basis, the property owners would have the

10:53:34 opportunity to make their voices known and their
10:53:39 intent known on each canal so that council could make
10:53:42 an informed decision on what the role should be for
10:53:45 moving forward with the project.
10:53:48 That's the procedure that I have provided in the
10:53:52 packet.
10:53:53 The comments that were going on during that discussion
10:53:56 back in December was that the canal and preservation
10:54:01 homeowners had expressed a desire to have 50% plus one
10:54:05 being a decision from each canal.
10:54:07 Council had expressed an interest in having a 60%
10:54:11 somewhat more consistent with Constitutional amendment
10:54:14 in the State of Florida.
10:54:14 We went through and basically analyzed those two
10:54:18 options and came up with the 60% average that's
10:54:21 presented in the table.
10:54:22 And since the numbers are very small in some of these
10:54:25 cases, we presented it in a table format so that it
10:54:28 was very clear what the number of responses and what
10:54:31 the number of votes would be required to make that
10:54:36 threshold.
10:54:37 Also included in the package was a voting procedure

10:54:39 and I believe as councilman Miranda expressed, it's
10:54:42 that time of year that we are concerned that we do get
10:54:44 this out to everyone so we have enough time in the
10:54:47 schedule so that we can send out a certified return
10:54:49 receipt letter to every property owner, an opportunity
10:54:53 to get those back, make sure that they have gotten
10:54:55 that letter, if they have not, comes back, owners
10:54:58 move, something of that nature.
10:55:00 We have an opportunity to recontact them within the
10:55:02 time frame of the voting procedure.
10:55:04 So we have got the voting members and that procedure
10:55:09 we are going to be following in the memorandum.
10:55:15 It's about 30 days, 32 daysing something like that.
10:55:18 And just for your information, I would like to give
10:55:20 you a schedule every time I come up so that we can
10:55:23 show you we are staying on.
10:55:28 Thank you.
10:55:32 We are going to have another public meeting like we
10:55:34 did, go out and talk to the residents and give them
10:55:37 the whole layout, schedule, when we are going to be
10:55:40 working.
10:55:40 Those public meetings and those voting cards will go

10:55:43 out in June.
10:55:43 Then in jewel on the 17th and the 31st it will
10:55:46 be establishing a legal framework to provide an
10:55:49 assessment.
10:55:50 Those will be two ordinances, there will be two
10:55:55 meetings.
10:55:55 On the second meeting of July 31st you will be
10:55:58 setting the last public hearing, that will be in
10:56:00 August.
10:56:00 So that's the schedule of meetings that will be coming
10:56:04 up over the remainder of this budget cycle with
10:56:06 construction to start around, you know, the spring of
10:56:09 next year.
10:56:11 So with that I'll be happy to entertain any more
10:56:13 comments or questions.
10:56:17 >>MARY MULHERN: I have just a few questions that I
10:56:22 feel like we need to be sure that we understand, and
10:56:27 also that the people who are going to be voting on
10:56:30 this.
10:56:30 And my first question is, because I am not Clare on
10:56:33 this, and I'm not sure that anyone else is, who are
10:56:38 the people that are going to be mailed the ballots to

10:56:43 vote?
10:56:43 And how is that determined?
10:56:52 >>> The voting procedure, basically what we have
10:56:54 presented to you back in December -- and I have a copy
10:56:58 of that.
10:57:03 Any property that does not meet the level of service
10:57:13 was above that proposed cut line, basically elevation
10:57:16 minus 3.
10:57:17 Anybody who is upstream from that point does not meet
10:57:20 the level of service so they would be receiving
10:57:23 benefit from the project.
10:57:25 All of those properties will be sent this initial
10:57:28 notice.
10:57:31 City staff will be sending the ballots out to those
10:57:33 property owners.
10:57:37 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
10:57:38 But that doesn't tell me what canals.
10:57:41 Which canals?
10:57:44 And if all of those, the five priorities are included
10:57:47 in that.
10:57:47 >> Yes, the favor priority canals are included in
10:57:51 that.

10:57:52 And the maps that we provided you previously had all
10:57:57 of the canal numbers.
10:58:04 They have all been identified in and all of those
10:58:06 property owners have received previous notices in that
10:58:10 last public hearing that we had.
10:58:11 So they have already been noticed once.
10:58:13 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
10:58:18 I think the letter -- and I'm not sure, because we
10:58:21 met, and I saw your letter and your sample ballot.
10:58:26 But I feel very strongly that the letter and the
10:58:30 ballot that people are going to be signing their vote,
10:58:34 whether they want to agree to this assessment or not,
10:58:39 needs to state on it that this is only agreeing to the
10:58:47 initial dredging, and that there likely will be
10:58:54 additional maintenance assessment required.
10:58:57 And I didn't see that on there.
10:58:58 But I think it's only fair for people to know when
10:59:01 they are voting what the actual intended results of
10:59:06 the assessment is going to accomplish.
10:59:08 So if you are going to have this initial dredging,
10:59:10 they need to know that $ thousand isn't going to
10:59:15 cover any maintenance that's needed.

10:59:18 >>> I real appreciate that comment because that is one
10:59:21 of the major points from property owners, that they
10:59:23 want to have a long-term maintenance program.
10:59:26 So I will be happy to include that type of
10:59:27 information.
10:59:28 >> Okay.
10:59:31 You are including that but you are not adding that.
10:59:33 You won't be adding a maintenance agreement.
10:59:35 That's something that's going to come later.
10:59:37 And they need to know that.
10:59:39 >>> Right. That whole decision process will be made
10:59:42 later.
10:59:44 >>MARY MULHERN: I think, you know, I also feel like
10:59:47 there's some very unclear wording on there.
10:59:53 My real concern is for the people, especially for the
10:59:56 people that really want this to go through, and are
11:00:01 going to be willing to sign on to this assessment,
11:00:04 that they know what the city's commitment is as far as
11:00:08 what we are going to add to it.
11:00:09 Because as Mr. Anderson gave us those numbers, first
11:00:13 of all, it's dependent upon that environmental money
11:00:18 being committed to these canals.

11:00:22 And I don't think that we have voted on that yet.
11:00:26 I don't think that that has been set by the committee,
11:00:31 by the council, that that money is going to go towards
11:00:35 that.
11:00:35 And I also find it very doubtful that in these times
11:00:43 that at any time later, if there's more money
11:00:47 required, which I kind of think is likely, that
11:00:50 there's no guarantee that this city is going to find
11:00:53 the money to put into this project to make it really
11:01:02 effective.
11:01:02 I know you need to do the engineering to figure out
11:01:04 how much it's going to cost.
11:01:06 But I think that -- I don't want anyone to be misled
11:01:11 into thinking that there is a guarantee that we will,
11:01:17 by paying this capped assessment of $8,000, if they
11:01:21 agree to it, that we are necessarily going to be able
11:01:25 to provide the balance from the city to do that.
11:01:28 I don't know who is going to be -- the funds
11:01:31 available, I don't know if there's going to be the
11:01:37 deal among the mayor, I don't know if it's going to be
11:01:41 agreement by council.
11:01:41 I don't know what's going to happen in the term of

11:01:46 this council.
11:01:47 But I know how badly everyone wants to get this done.
11:01:49 The people who are pushing for it.
11:01:52 And I understand that.
11:01:53 But I don't want them to be misled into thinking
11:01:58 there's a guarantee here, that the city is going to
11:02:00 make up the difference.
11:02:03 I don't think we can do that, say that.
11:02:07 And then my only other thing was what Mr. Miranda
11:02:12 brought up, that I think there are is a bad time, and
11:02:15 if we are going to agree to mail these ballots out, I
11:02:17 think it needs to start, the whole process should
11:02:20 start, maybe mail them out in early September and just
11:02:25 push the whole thing forward.
11:02:31 >>> Thank you for those comments.
11:02:32 Unfortunately with respect to the timing, we are bound
11:02:34 by certain statutory requirements on when those
11:02:37 mailings and when these things need to occur.
11:02:39 So it's unfortunate, but our hands are relatively
11:02:42 tied.
11:02:43 And that's why we are trying to extend this process,
11:02:46 because frankly there's no voting requirement.

11:02:50 This is being done per council's information, and to
11:02:53 provide some guidance to staff on what kind of support
11:02:56 they are looking for from these communities.
11:02:58 So unfortunately statutorily, this is the time of year
11:03:00 that we do these types of mailings.
11:03:02 But thank you very much for all your other comments.
11:03:05 >>MARY MULHERN: And I think you are bringing up
11:03:07 another question for me and for the people who are
11:03:09 hoping for this to approve this ballot and this
11:03:16 mailing, is that council ultimately is going to have
11:03:21 to decide if we are going to set this assessment.
11:03:27 And I don't know that we had a discussion or decided
11:03:29 that this is going to -- I mean, I guess we are
11:03:32 approving the ballot.
11:03:36 But it's still totally up to us if we are going to
11:03:42 approve the assessment.
11:03:43 So people need to be well aware of that if we passed
11:03:46 the whole voting procedure today, that no guarantee we
11:03:51 are actually going to -- there's nothing requiring us,
11:03:54 as Mr. Walter just said, to follow whatever, you know,
11:04:00 comes out of the voting procedure.
11:04:02 There may be questions about that in the end.

11:04:07 I had one more thing and I can't remember what it was.
11:04:13 But I'll remember while other people --
11:04:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would encourage you to stick to that
11:04:27 for opportunity to raise questions later on.
11:04:30 And we have an 11:00 time certain that we need to move
11:04:33 to.
11:04:33 So I would encourage you to stick to the voting
11:04:35 process.
11:04:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Councilman Mulhern brings up some
11:04:44 good points and I want to reinforce a couple of
11:04:48 things.
11:04:49 For one thing I think the 60% super majority is
11:04:52 extremely important.
11:04:52 And on a per canal basis.
11:04:55 Chuck, if I say anything wrong, jump in.
11:04:58 But on a per canal basis.
11:05:00 So if folks feel strongly about this on X canal then
11:05:05 they need to have their own mini campaign up and down
11:05:08 the street in a very cordial, polite way, obviously,
11:05:11 and convince their neighbors to vote for or against
11:05:14 this on each canal.
11:05:16 Canal by canal.

11:05:19 Number one.
11:05:20 Number two is, chuck, I want some reassurances from
11:05:22 you and Steve, both standing here today.
11:05:24 I think that the 30-day window is really, really
11:05:28 important.
11:05:28 So whether or not that bleeds into July a little bit
11:05:33 or whatever I think it extremely important because of
11:05:34 that vacation issue, that sent out the certified
11:05:37 letters and they have a 30-day window to get them
11:05:40 back.
11:05:41 So good with that?
11:05:42 Okay.
11:05:44 The Currituck channel on Davis Island, it's my
11:05:48 understanding that council voted that out.
11:05:49 >>> Right.
11:05:52 And the navigational component.
11:05:54 >> I just want to make sure it's clear because a
11:05:57 little while ago you said the five canals identified
11:06:00 in the APO letter are still in, but the Currituck on
11:06:05 Davis Island is out in regard to the navigational
11:06:08 $8,000 assessment issue.
11:06:09 >>> Correct.

11:06:11 >> I realize and I hope we might do something with
11:06:13 that canal environmentally but it's yet to be seen.
11:06:23 Audience: All is ought.
11:06:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ma'am, you can't speak from the
11:06:27 audience.
11:06:27 You can't do that.
11:06:30 >>> You stated it clearly.
11:06:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Council was privy this morning.
11:06:35 I don't know who gave it to us but we were privy,
11:06:39 SWFWMD legal opinion which really is relevant to this
11:06:42 whole process and I'll be as quick as possible,
11:06:45 Mr. Chairman.
11:06:45 The SWFWMD legal opinion is dated April 13th,
11:06:50 2008.
11:06:51 Actually speaks to another water body, clam bayou,
11:06:57 which I guess is in another county somewhere but it's
11:07:00 completely relevant to this issue and I guess what
11:07:02 SWFWMD concluded is that public funds cannot be
11:07:05 used -- I'll just read it.
11:07:09 Conclusion.
11:07:10 Must conclude that the initiation of maintenance,
11:07:12 dredging of clam bayou by the district solely for the

11:07:15 purpose of improving navigability for a limited group
11:07:18 of property owners is not authorized by Florida law.
11:07:21 This opinion seems to be pretty well written and
11:07:24 thought out.
11:07:25 Basically debunks the notion that the city should and
11:07:28 could step in on behalf of these canal owners and do
11:07:32 it ourselves.
11:07:34 With public funds.
11:07:36 We can assist, and I think that's what you and Steve
11:07:39 were doing and the city is doing.
11:07:40 We are assisting with the process to facilitate the
11:07:43 use of this assessment dollars.
11:07:45 But we are not using general public funds, at least
11:07:49 not city funds, to dredge these very limited use
11:07:55 canals.
11:07:56 Is that a fair statement?
11:07:59 >> That would be a fair statement.
11:08:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It appears to me under SWFWMD legal
11:08:03 opinion that they wouldn't feel comfortable using
11:08:05 district money in that way.
11:08:07 I think likewise, city officials over many years have
11:08:11 concluded we don't feel comfortable using that money

11:08:13 and that's why we are going into this assessment
11:08:15 process.
11:08:16 And the last thing I wanted to say is the
11:08:18 $1.3 million, the other e-mail that was given to me
11:08:22 dated April 11, 2008, it appears it's from SWFWMD to
11:08:27 I'm not sure who, it speaks to the $1.3 million.
11:08:33 At least that's way think it alludes to.
11:08:37 Chuck, tell me what your interpretation is.
11:08:39 It appears that what it says is that we can't use the
11:08:42 $1.3 million for purposes of dredging these canals,
11:08:48 but they created -- they said, but, if we can figure
11:08:52 out another way of using this money perhaps to fill in
11:08:57 the holes out in the bay that we might be able to use
11:08:59 the money.
11:09:00 Am I interpreting that correct?
11:09:01 >> I'm not quite certain because I haven't read that.
11:09:04 Basically the evolution of the conversation that is we
11:09:05 have had with the water management district is to the
11:09:08 extent that we can use the material for environmental
11:09:11 enhancement purposes.
11:09:13 That's an appropriate use of funds.
11:09:15 And so we are exploring those option was the district

11:09:17 to dredge holes.
11:09:18 There's a number of options that worry looking for to
11:09:22 have a net environmental enhancement total Tampa Bay
11:09:24 estuary system as a whole.
11:09:27 So because they can't use the money for the
11:09:29 navigational component.
11:09:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
11:09:34 >>MARY MULHERN: I remembered what I was going to say.
11:09:38 Mr. Dingfelder brought something up.
11:09:39 But I also think someone mentioned an attorney general
11:09:43 opinion?
11:09:44 That wasn't what you were reading, was it, John?
11:09:47 That there was an attorney general opinion about this.
11:09:53 Okay, okay.
11:09:56 This is becoming clearer for me as we discuss it.
11:09:58 So I'm glad we are.
11:10:01 I think really the question is what I brought up
11:10:04 before, and what a number of people including Mrs.
11:10:08 Montague who is almost completely responsible for
11:10:11 getting us these federal dollars that we had for
11:10:16 years, for environmental improvements, and from the
11:10:20 woman from Davis Island who pointed out that were five

11:10:23 priority canals.
11:10:25 That money, the only money that is being offered -- I
11:10:30 don't know what else to call it -- as an incentive for
11:10:34 people to agree to an assessment, I don't know that we
11:10:39 can say -- and I probably said this already, but we
11:10:41 can't say that that money is necessarily going to go
11:10:44 into this project.
11:10:46 I don't think that we are saying that.
11:10:48 I don't think that it's clear that we can say today
11:10:52 that that money will be committed to that.
11:10:55 I'm not ready to do this.
11:10:57 I would be happy to ask people to vote on whether they
11:11:00 want an assessment, this $8,000 limited assessment.
11:11:06 But when I vote today, if I vote for that, I am not
11:11:10 voting to commit these environmental dollars which are
11:11:15 not clearly even legally able to be put into this
11:11:20 project.
11:11:21 So I just think everyone needs to know that.
11:11:24 Where we are with that.
11:11:25 And I would like to hear from legal maybe frommal or
11:11:32 someone if there's some reason why we couldn't move
11:11:34 this process up to September so that we could make

11:11:39 sure that people are at home to receive those.
11:11:44 >>JAN MCLEAN: Jan McLean, office of city attorney.
11:11:52 If we do not follow the process, and certify the role
11:11:58 to the tax collector this year, then you would have to
11:12:01 wait till the cycle next year.
11:12:03 There's nothing that prevents you from doing that,
11:12:07 fill that in, though, because in December when you
11:12:08 approve using this process, that's all you needed to
11:12:13 put on notice that you will be using it so if you want
11:12:18 to delay it and do it next year that is an option for
11:12:20 you.
11:12:21 It's just that if you are going to hold it this year
11:12:28 we have to get it to the tax collector.
11:12:30 And just to clarify, both or whatever canals were on
11:12:34 Davis Island were voted out.
11:12:35 There are no canals to be considered for this on Davis
11:12:38 Island.
11:12:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
11:12:42 But my question about that was those were included in
11:12:44 the environmental grant, the federal grant.
11:12:58 So that money, everyone if we commit some of this
11:13:00 money to the dredging project, it may not all be able

11:13:09 to go toward that.
11:13:10 >>> They were taken out for assessment purposes.
11:13:14 >>> That's right.
11:13:17 With the budget cut we have right now.
11:13:19 Things could change.
11:13:20 Those are all very important points to bring up
11:13:23 because we. Award add contract yet.
11:13:26 >>MARY MULHERN: We. Seen it other than from Mr.
11:13:28 Anderson's numbers he put together.
11:13:31 I haven't seen any numbers.
11:13:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, we need to take action on
11:13:35 this item.
11:13:36 The chair will receive a motion, entertain a motion at
11:13:38 this point.
11:13:39 Item 35.
11:13:40 >> So moved.
11:13:42 >> Second.
11:13:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Moved by councilman Dingfelder,
11:13:45 seconded by councilwoman Miller.
11:13:48 So moved and ordered.
11:13:49 We have a time certain item number 79.
11:13:57 Time certain.

11:14:04 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: City clerk.
11:14:07 Council, we have two candidates here to fill the
11:14:13 position of the architect for the Historic
11:14:15 Preservation Commission.
11:14:18 They are Mr. John Tennison, and Mr. Elliott wheeler.
11:14:24 Mr. Tennison is the current chair of the Historic
11:14:27 Preservation Commission.
11:14:30 He is unable to attend today.
11:14:33 He's out of town.
11:14:37 And he sent a note to council noting his desire to
11:14:43 serve another term.
11:14:44 He's the newly-elected chair.
11:14:46 And if you want to hear from Mr. Elliott wheeler, he
11:14:50 is here, I believe.
11:14:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Wheeler?
11:14:58 You have about a minute to speak to council.
11:15:01 >> Good morning.
11:15:02 My name is Elliott wheeler.
11:15:04 I have been a resident of Tampa for search yourself
11:15:06 and live in Mr. Dingfelder's district four.
11:15:09 I'm a LEED accredited registered architect and worked
11:15:12 for chancy design architect for the past six years.

11:15:16 Past projects include the design for the Italian club
11:15:19 several years ago, the ongoing restoration and tenant
11:15:22 improvements for Ybor Square and most recently the
11:15:25 project manager for the condominiums at Channelside
11:15:30 and Kennedy.
11:15:31 You may recognize the 4 story white building at the
11:15:34 west end of 7th Avenue between Martin and the
11:15:37 trolley line and invite each of you to visit and we
11:15:40 expect to become Ybor's first LEED certified project.
11:15:43 Recognizing the efficiencies, sustainability and
11:15:46 historic preservation coexist incredibly well.
11:15:49 My career began in Charleston, South Carolina, in 1987
11:15:53 and it's there that I developed my strong appreciation
11:15:55 for historic preservation.
11:15:57 Living and working in the country's oldest historic
11:16:00 district granted me the opportunity to be involved in
11:16:02 the restoration of such incredible landmark buildings
11:16:02 such as St. Michael's Episcopal Church, now almost 300
11:16:09 years old and Charleston's most noted landmark --
11:16:11 Episcopal Church.
11:16:13 Following her Hugo in 1989 we specified historically
11:16:17 appropriate repairs for several areas of the nearly

11:16:19 200-year-old structure including the scaffolding of
11:16:21 the for over a year.
11:16:24 It's with this background and with the strong belief
11:16:27 in the importance of our cultural past, without
11:16:30 commitment to the strong future, that I'm here today
11:16:33 seeking appointment to the Tampa Historic Preservation
11:16:34 Commission.
11:16:36 The members of the Historic Preservation Commission,
11:16:39 the ARC and City Council has done a wonderful job to
11:16:43 enjoy the continued success of the Tampa neighborhood,
11:16:46 Seminole Heights, and it's my personal hope to see
11:16:49 Ybor City become Tampa's crown jewel.
11:16:51 As incredible -- as witnessed in the Ybor city meeting
11:16:56 a couple weeks ago with Mrs. Miller, Mrs. Saul-Sena,
11:16:59 and Mrs. Mulhern in attendance, one of our next great
11:17:01 opportunities awaits us in the West Tampa area.
11:17:05 Broad area with its convenient proximity to Westshore,
11:17:08 and 275, a premier area to live work and play.
11:17:12 I realize the position today is most likely the
11:17:14 reappointment plaintiff Tennison, the current chairman
11:17:17 of the Historic Preservation Commission, whose hard
11:17:20 work with his team members is evidence in the great

11:17:22 strides with the preservation of our beautiful cigar
11:17:25 factories, Sulphur Springs tower, Union Station and on
11:17:29 the great landmarks.
11:17:31 But I wanted to take this opportunity to introduce
11:17:33 myself to the members of City Council and to let you
11:17:35 know that I will continue to apply for upcoming
11:17:37 openings.
11:17:38 Thank you so much for this opportunity.
11:17:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
11:17:43 Do we have a ballot?
11:17:45 Pass those out.
11:17:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, if I may, I read both
11:17:52 of the packets, both individuals are both -- they are
11:17:57 like a dead heat, finish line at the racetrack.
11:18:00 They are both there at the same time, they are both
11:18:02 highly qualified, and whoever does not receive the nod
11:18:06 from this council I think will get the candidate for
11:18:09 another board somewhere.
11:18:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let's hope they don't drop dead at
11:18:15 the finish line.
11:18:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't think that will happen.
11:18:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

11:18:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand.
11:18:30 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: City clerk.
11:18:33 Mr. Tennison has been elected.
11:18:37 Thank you.
11:18:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: In order to complete this process, if
11:18:41 council would direct me to prepare a resolution affirm
11:18:46 both Mr. Ten I Sonde and Mr. Tokley, and to -- I
11:18:50 believe it's the legal department who will bring back
11:18:52 to the civil service that was done in the previous
11:18:54 time.
11:18:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I have a motion.
11:18:58 (Motion carried).
11:19:00 So moved and ordered.
11:19:01 Item 69 needs to be continued.
11:19:06 All in favor let it be known by Aye.
11:19:08 Okay.
11:19:09 Item 70.
11:19:14 >>CINDY MILLER: Director of growth management and
11:19:15 development services.
11:19:16 I believe this was a motion to discuss what
11:19:21 protections we have incorporated into our land sales
11:19:24 agreement for affordable housing.

11:19:26 And I think what I can say is that over the last three
11:19:28 years, particularly, we have made some gradual changes
11:19:32 that we think are becoming effective.
11:19:35 We may have a few more in the future.
11:19:38 What we started incorporating first of all is the best
11:19:40 practices.
11:19:41 It used to be that the real estate division took care
11:19:43 of all of our transactions regarding whether
11:19:46 affordable housing or other purposes.
11:19:48 We have transferred those responsibilities to the
11:19:51 housing community development division.
11:19:53 Sharon West has put an excellent package together, now
11:19:57 that we have had two offerings so far of our in-fill
11:20:00 properties.
11:20:00 They are working with both not for profit and
11:20:03 for-profit entities.
11:20:04 And her staff monitors very directly to site visits,
11:20:08 permit review, making sure that there is progress.
11:20:10 If there is not progress, we come back before council
11:20:13 to determine whether an extension should be developed
11:20:16 or not.
11:20:17 Sometimes there are certain circumstances that may

11:20:19 take more than, say, two years for a house, whether
11:20:22 it's because site constraints or other concerns.
11:20:27 So we have been working with that.
11:20:29 And I believe that has been very effective the last
11:20:31 three years.
11:20:33 When it comes to previous transactions prior to that,
11:20:35 we try to address those as best as we can, either
11:20:39 coming back to council or in some cases not giving
11:20:45 continuances for development unless we have additional
11:20:47 financial resources coming in so we have also adopted
11:20:49 that.
11:20:49 In the future what we will be looking at is whether we
11:20:53 should incorporate a very small lien on the property
11:20:55 for a few thousand dollars, so that there is still
11:20:57 money in the process that the city could retain,
11:21:02 should development not occur.
11:21:03 We believe that that will be in your future land sales
11:21:05 agreement that we will bring before you.
11:21:07 Whether that is for affordable housing or other
11:21:10 transactions.
11:21:11 When you have that type of financial commitment, we
11:21:15 believe that will also be of assistance.

11:21:17 So councilman Miranda, I don't know if that addresses
11:21:20 your concerns but I would be happy to address any
11:21:22 other questions.
11:21:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Miller and I got together and
11:21:28 addressed the details.
11:21:29 What I am trying to find, the middle. Road where the
11:21:33 individuals that are buying the lot or the lots,
11:21:35 groups of lot or whatever, understand and realize that
11:21:41 if the sale is consummated based on the act and the
11:21:45 act would be building affordable housing, if it's not
11:21:48 done in two years it comes back for extension, and I
11:21:50 understand and agree with Mrs. Miller on most things.
11:21:53 However, that being said, somewhere in that contract,
11:21:55 and she guaranteed me that will be or already is and
11:21:59 has been, that is the lot and groups, they cannot
11:22:05 resell the lot unless it's for affordable housing.
11:22:07 But whoever buys that lot has to understand why he or
11:22:12 she got it, or the company for the price that they got
11:22:16 it because it's for the betterment of the whole city
11:22:18 including the individuals who are going to live in
11:22:20 that home.
11:22:21 However, as she so eloquently stated, there have been

11:22:25 some in the past years that have slipped through the
11:22:27 cracks for whatever reason, and we are not going to go
11:22:29 into that -- I shouldn't say many.
11:22:35 There was one.
11:22:35 So I just want to make sure that that is not a
11:22:38 continuance.
11:22:38 And I'm satisfied that it won't be.
11:22:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
11:22:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Cindy, for joining us
11:22:47 today on this issue.
11:22:49 Do we currently put any type of notice into the record
11:22:57 title, you know, putting future potential buyers and
11:23:03 making them aware that this has a constraint on it?
11:23:09 I didn't speak to that very articulately.
11:23:14 >> I understand your question and very frankly I will
11:23:17 need to check on that to make sure we have put
11:23:19 something into the title.
11:23:20 I believe we have started doing that in the last
11:23:22 couple of years with a number of our transactions but
11:23:24 let me check on that and get back to you perhaps by
11:23:27 memo to all the council members because that is
11:23:29 something we have certainly learned over the years,

11:23:31 that unless there's something in the title or there is
11:23:33 a lien somewhere recorded, that we have less capacity
11:23:39 to take action.
11:23:39 So let me -- let me say what we have done in the past
11:23:45 and what we will identify in the future.
11:23:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If the contract we enter into with
11:23:52 this initial purchaser specifically says ware going to
11:23:54 put this paragraph in and cloud your title, okay, to
11:23:58 mandate that this parcel will only be used for
11:24:01 affordable housing, then there will be no shenanigans,
11:24:04 no sales or anything, no matter how long it is,
11:24:09 because the title is clouded.
11:24:13 David is our guru here, but I think if we are not
11:24:17 doing that, I think that's the best way to accomplish
11:24:19 what it is that you suggest suggested, Charlie.
11:24:23 If that's our intent, and --
11:24:29 >> Mr. Dingfelder, if I may. Jorge Martin, City
11:24:30 Attorney's office.
11:24:31 In Florida, we don't use reversionary interest too
11:24:40 often because they are not favored by the courts.
11:24:44 To limit the amount of time in which a reversionary
11:24:47 interest may operate and consider restraints.

11:24:52 We can put a reversion in a deed.
11:24:54 We can also put it in the mortgages which we do, and
11:25:03 within a period of time that has been agreed for, that
11:25:08 can be foreclosed.
11:25:09 We can take back the property.
11:25:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But that's in the area of us
11:25:16 dealing with these nonprofits, where we have -- we are
11:25:19 holding mortgages, et cetera.
11:25:20 Some of these are just straight transactions with
11:25:24 private individuals.
11:25:25 But we still want them to build affordable housing.
11:25:28 And that's what our contract says.
11:25:29 So I don't know.
11:25:31 I am not going to try to work out the legal details of
11:25:33 how you can accomplish that.
11:25:35 But if you can accomplish it, I think it would be the
11:25:37 way to do it.
11:25:38 It would just cloud their title as best as possible,
11:25:41 and avoid any --
11:25:43 >>> Well, that wouldn't be a cloud on title.
11:25:45 Reversion is not a cloud on title but it's notice to a
11:25:48 third party purchaser that if this action occurred,

11:25:51 then somebody may have a right.
11:25:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's fine.
11:25:57 Thank you.
11:25:59 >>CINDY MILLER: One other area that is sort of another
11:26:01 way that we can also encourage affordable housing.
11:26:03 Again, this is where we have identified various lots
11:26:07 that would come before council.
11:26:08 It's now required by state statute.
11:26:10 We constantly review our holdings and anything new
11:26:14 that comes before us to achieve the property for
11:26:18 affordable housing.
11:26:19 The other situation that I think is helpful to
11:26:21 encourage affordable housing is this is how the
11:26:24 for-profit and the not-for-profits are able to obtain
11:26:28 additional assistance for their new home buyers.
11:26:31 If they don't comply with our requirements under their
11:26:33 contract, that could also cause them problems when
11:26:36 they then have a buyer coming before us for down
11:26:39 payment assistance.
11:26:41 I think we have some financial incentives as well as
11:26:43 legal incentives.
11:26:44 That's what we are seeing as a very great benefit as

11:26:46 well is linking the down payment as well to the
11:26:49 transaction.
11:26:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No action need to be taken on that.
11:26:55 Thank you Ms. Miller, very much.
11:26:58 Okay.
11:26:59 Item 71.
11:27:00 I would like to move that to the end of the agenda
11:27:02 since council talked.
11:27:08 We want to hear from Ms. Mulhern on the budget
11:27:11 process.
11:27:11 Okay?
11:27:12 So do I hear a second?
11:27:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You want to move it to the end?
11:27:19 Just do it.
11:27:21 >>MARY MULHERN: 71.
11:27:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 71 is moved to the end.
11:27:28 72 we have already done.
11:27:29 Okay.
11:27:30 73.
11:27:40 >> Received a report on that.
11:27:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 73 just need to receive.
11:27:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.

11:27:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor let it be known by Aye.
11:27:52 Opposes?
11:27:52 Okay.
11:27:54 74.
11:27:59 Item 74.
11:28:04 The green ordinance.
11:28:07 >>THOM SNELLING: Growth management development
11:28:13 services.
11:28:15 What we have are three items here before you today.
11:28:29 We have a resolution, and two separate ordinances.
11:28:33 I sent that to you electronically earlier in the week
11:28:36 and I do have a copy.
11:28:48 The resolution that you have before you, basically
11:29:03 what will happen is we are pretty much in agreement
11:29:08 with that, then what will happen then, be prepared
11:29:13 with the doc agenda and list it for passage next
11:29:17 Thursday at your regular council meeting as passage of
11:29:19 a resolution.
11:29:20 The other two ordinances, one is a proposed revision
11:29:24 to chapter 13, which is really focusing on the amount
11:29:28 of areas that exist and currently what is allowed.
11:29:32 Then the other portion is chapter 17.5 which is

11:29:35 planning management.
11:29:38 And on both of those ordinances, I would request that
11:29:42 after we get done with our discussion, if council
11:29:44 would actually set a public hearing date for June
11:29:47 12th.
11:29:47 And the reason we are asking for June 12 is we will be
11:29:51 going to the Planning Commission on June 9, making the
11:29:54 same presentation to the Planning Commission on June
11:29:57 9th.
11:29:57 And then available immediately afterwards, then we can
11:30:02 work on everything those ordinances adopted at left
11:30:04 for the first public hearing on June 12th.
11:30:08 So again, this is done, if some member would make that
11:30:14 motion that would be appreciated.
11:30:15 First I would like to walk through the resolution and
11:30:18 comment on some of that.
11:30:21 Basically the whereas clauses talk about the notion of
11:30:25 sustainability in green building and why it's
11:30:27 important and the various documentation that exists in
11:30:32 volumes around the country and around the world.
11:30:35 When you get to the first now now therefores" the
11:30:41 section one is really about becoming a certified green

11:30:44 local government.
11:30:45 And we have identified a date by 2010.
11:30:49 The copy that you have, you have the blue language in
11:30:52 front of you, discussion, and if there was a
11:30:54 difference between what came out of the fact finding
11:30:57 force versus -- fact finding task force versus what I
11:31:01 have, I tried to discuss it.
11:31:03 For the most part you are going to see that they are
11:31:05 either virtually the same, the same, or have very
11:31:09 minor differences.
11:31:10 I tried to know Tate exactly where those differences
11:31:12 are.
11:31:13 The first one is becoming a green local government.
11:31:15 That process is already underway and we are working on
11:31:18 that.
11:31:19 Section 2 is establishing the city's green officer.
11:31:23 If you read your releases for about the last two weeks
11:31:28 been working on that very diligently.
11:31:30 And section 3 talks about some of the principles of
11:31:33 how to execute that particular mission, talking about
11:31:38 the section 1, 2, talks about using -- using a model
11:31:44 for sustainability, ecological preservation,

11:31:48 restoration, and involving that in all aspects of
11:31:52 municipal government.
11:31:53 2 really talks about community outreach programs and
11:31:55 education.
11:31:56 When you get to item 3, there's a whole laundry list
11:31:58 of items of some of the topical areas that I will be
11:32:02 working on, that the green officer will be working on
11:32:06 that includes research, which there's been in a change
11:32:08 between the fact finding group and the city staff.
11:32:15 Service and outreach.
11:32:18 We deleted the word civic, specifically because we
11:32:20 have agencies that really focus on those types of
11:32:23 things already.
11:32:25 Energy and climate change.
11:32:27 That's really going to be exercising some of the work
11:32:29 that will be done as we try to comply about the --
11:32:33 comply with the climate agreement.
11:32:38 We have a program underway where we are convert ago
11:32:40 lot of city facilities to Florida friendly, looking at
11:32:45 the various codes that talk about research and habitat
11:32:49 ordinance or in chapter 13.
11:32:51 The built environment, there's been no change between

11:32:54 fact finding and the city.
11:32:56 Waste reduction, a lot of recycling and reducing the
11:32:59 amount of stuff that we actually produce as trash and
11:33:04 increasing the solid waste programs and recycled
11:33:07 programs.
11:33:08 The dragon boat races that were just a couple of weeks
11:33:12 ago, we work to get out, and Sol I waste was able to
11:33:16 collect almost a thousand pounds of recyclable --
11:33:20 recyclable trash.
11:33:22 The Gasparilla, the Super Bowl, there's a lot of green
11:33:25 push under that.
11:33:26 There's a lot of things already happening.
11:33:27 Procurement.
11:33:28 Virtually everything that we buy from paper to
11:33:30 chemicals to anything, just always with the the I eye
11:33:34 towards environmentally friend "or conservation thing.
11:33:36 Some of the differences between this is on the
11:33:39 investment.
11:33:40 They talked about the pension fund.
11:33:41 Pension funds are very legally constrained already.
11:33:44 (Bell sounds).
11:33:45 Okay, I'm done.

11:33:46 No.
11:33:48 Already legally constrained.
11:33:49 I don't think I want to get into that.
11:33:51 That's a whole different kind of animal so I deleted
11:33:53 that.
11:33:54 On transportation, it's the same.
11:33:56 But what we did include in this was mass transit.
11:34:02 Mass transit critical.
11:34:03 Now that.
11:34:04 We've talking about it in the comp plan.
11:34:06 You have updates from TBARTA.
11:34:08 So mass transit has been added and is also one of the
11:34:11 efforts that the officer will be working on.
11:34:13 The other ones I deleted were health, equity and
11:34:15 cultural climate.
11:34:16 For all of those, we have departments and divisions
11:34:20 that specifically focus on those things, and we didn't
11:34:23 want the change to take a focus from the green
11:34:25 building sustainable efforts, and try to water them
11:34:29 down, quite frankly.
11:34:31 Stewardship, we kept that the same.
11:34:33 Item number 4 is really about doing a lot of the

11:34:36 training.
11:34:38 And just working with the United States Green Building
11:34:43 Coalition as well as the Florida Green Building
11:34:45 Coalition and it talks about having a person on staff
11:34:49 who is a LEED accredited professional.
11:34:51 We already have one individual that is LEED accredited
11:34:54 professional and she's already working in doing some
11:34:56 of the programs we have talked about.
11:35:00 Item number 5 is the web site.
11:35:02 Web site has been under construction for about three
11:35:05 weeks.
11:35:05 I hope to unveil it very shortly.
11:35:07 It includes all of the various associations and the
11:35:09 various programs that the city has.
11:35:14 Number 6 talks about coming forth with an annual
11:35:18 sustainability report and green report.
11:35:20 That certainly is the same.
11:35:22 But different programs and projects are come online,
11:35:25 now, coming back to council with informational items
11:35:28 will be perhaps a little bit more frequent than the
11:35:31 annual.
11:35:31 The annual will be the formal written report, here is

11:35:34 what has been accomplished in the last fiscal year
11:35:36 kind of thing.
11:35:38 And again, here is one of the areas that we do have a
11:35:41 difference on.
11:35:45 Previously the fact finding group wanted to talk about
11:35:49 the reduction of the consumption of fuel.
11:35:52 I have been working and talking with people over at
11:35:56 fleet maintenance and exactly what that would mean or
11:36:00 how we deal with the amount of gasoline we use or fuel
11:36:03 that we use, and we really wanted to focus on just
11:36:07 working -- everything that we do more and more towards
11:36:10 energy efficiency versus an actual number of
11:36:12 reduction, reduced consumption.
11:36:15 And the reality is we use about 1.4 million gallons of
11:36:19 gasoline for equipment and generators and things that
11:36:22 we do around the city.
11:36:24 And our couples last year actually went up.
11:36:27 And it went up because we have a lot more equipment to
11:36:32 have do a lot of the jobs with automation.
11:36:35 So our actual equipment has gone up which is one of
11:36:39 the reasons that the consumption has gone up.
11:36:41 So, you know, we are implementing various fuel

11:36:45 efficiencies, policies, we are looking at reducing the
11:36:51 actual number in the fleet maintenance by vehicle
11:36:54 utilization.
11:36:57 Analysis is well under way.
11:36:59 We should have recommendations pretty quick on. That
11:37:01 they have also talked about doing other smaller
11:37:02 things, about -- each individual department everybody
11:37:08 having a car using a smaller motor pool.
11:37:11 More frequently that also saves gasoline, reduces cost
11:37:14 and maintenance on the vehicles and also reduce
11:37:16 consumption.
11:37:18 Also working with Hillsborough County trying to get a
11:37:20 collaborative, some of the larger equipment so we
11:37:23 actually keep that --
11:37:24 Let me interrupt you.
11:37:25 Our time is getting away from us.
11:37:27 It's 20 to 12.
11:37:30 Council, are there any specific questions on this?
11:37:35 Councilman Dingfelder.
11:37:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thom has done a good job working
11:37:40 through the resolution, and I don't think we have -- I
11:37:43 think we see eye to eye on most parts of the

11:37:46 resolution.
11:37:48 Real quickly, Thom, you deleted management of private
11:37:55 land on page 3 of 5 in the resolution in blue.
11:38:00 I thought that was kind of -- to facilitate the
11:38:05 management of park land in a sustainable manner.
11:38:11 It seemed like a rather innocuous phrase.
11:38:13 Imsort of surprised we wouldn't want to do that.
11:38:19 >>THOM SNELLING: I'm not sure what it meant, to be
11:38:21 honest.
11:38:26 Our private land whether the lands when control
11:38:28 through ELAPP or parks and recreation or ball fields
11:38:31 or other facilities, I know what that means, and I
11:38:34 know how effective that can be.
11:38:38 You know, forcing people to do various different
11:38:41 things with that you are property, and --
11:38:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If it said regulator if it said
11:38:47 forest, it could be a different animal.
11:38:49 What it says is facilitate the management of private
11:38:53 lands in a sustainable manner.
11:38:55 In other words we could put other language in there
11:38:57 that's even looser to encourage to do that sort of
11:39:02 thing.

11:39:02 That was the intent of that language, was I would
11:39:06 guess 99% of the land in the city limits is private
11:39:09 land.
11:39:10 But I think --
11:39:13 >>THOM SNELLING: And I don't know.
11:39:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Something like. That so when want
11:39:17 to manage our city land in a sustainable manner.
11:39:19 Yes, we are in agreement on that.
11:39:21 I would say we also should facilitate and encourage
11:39:23 the management of private lands in a sustainable
11:39:26 manner that's not regulated, it's not mandate or
11:39:29 anything like that, it's just facilitate.
11:39:31 But it seemed loosey goosey enough.
11:39:34 >>THOM SNELLING: it's the notion like you say,
11:39:41 crafting the resolution when I bring the final
11:39:43 resolution when it passes next week.
11:39:45 The idea of encouraging something like that, something
11:39:49 like that, I don't believe I have a problem with that.
11:39:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And the other part is rather
11:39:56 interesting down at the bottom of the page when it
11:39:57 comes to especially the use of -- Bonnie Wise, I know,
11:40:05 city money, I think that's a policy decision that the

11:40:07 council needs to really decide on, is do we want to
11:40:10 start shifting our focus a little bit on perhaps more
11:40:14 socially responsible and environmentally responsible
11:40:18 investment?
11:40:19 Both within the pension environment, but I know there
11:40:22 are some constraints on that, but also in the other
11:40:26 investments that Bonnie Wise makes through the finance
11:40:29 department.
11:40:30 And, you know, this is a resolution.
11:40:34 You know, I not extremely binding.
11:40:36 But I think that if council wants to include that as
11:40:40 something desirable that that's something council
11:40:45 should discuss.
11:40:45 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
11:40:47 You have no say in the pension, unfortunately, done by
11:40:50 special act so the City Council has -- city finances,
11:40:54 yes, obviously you do.
11:40:54 But the city general employee pension fund is done by
11:40:58 special act of the legislature and they determine what
11:41:01 we may and may not do.
11:41:03 That unfortunately is how that works.
11:41:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Even though the majority -- I mean,

11:41:08 we have strong influence on the pension board.
11:41:15 >>> We have membership on the pension board. I'm not
11:41:22 sure you have majority on the board. The pension
11:41:25 board is restrained on how they may invest. The
11:41:25 pension policies are fairly stringently spelled out in
11:41:25 the policies that govern the pension board.
11:41:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right. But if we put language in
11:41:29 here that encourages that type of thing, not
11:41:32 mandating, it not, you know, it's just encouraging,
11:41:35 that tape of behavior, wherever the city's money is
11:41:39 invested, it seemed to be rather --
11:41:44 >>SAL TERRITO: The other issue on that is we are
11:41:46 getting into fiduciary responsibilities and there's
11:41:48 been a lot of stuff written, been a lot of
11:41:50 publications deal with investments and green items,
11:41:54 investment items and dealing with countries we don't
11:41:56 favor, we shouldn't be investing in those areas.
11:41:58 Then the board has a fiduciary responsibility of how
11:42:01 they invest our money, if determining that the
11:42:03 investments will go into areas that we may not agree
11:42:06 with, but that's a better investment to protect the
11:42:09 city employees pensions, they have to weigh those as

11:42:12 well, and also within the restraints of the Florida
11:42:17 legislature.
11:42:18 Yes, you can encourage those items, the fiduciary
11:42:24 responsibility as board members as well.
11:42:29 >> Mr. Chairman, we didn't get into the ordinance
11:42:32 itself.
11:42:32 You are saying we are out of time today.
11:42:35 Maybe we can pick it up next week.
11:42:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the problem is that it's 15 to
11:42:39 12 and we have a whole lot of items we haven't touched
11:42:42 yet.
11:42:48 >>> Unfortunately this is not something we can get
11:42:50 through really fast.
11:42:51 I tried to give as much information as I possibly
11:42:53 could.
11:42:53 But some of the stuff has to -- there's some vetting
11:42:56 and discussion that's needed.
11:42:57 So, yeah.
11:43:01 >> I would be in favor of moving the resolution with
11:43:03 understanding that, you know, it's coming back for
11:43:07 second reading, so --
11:43:10 >> Well, the resolution, the actual resolution itself,

11:43:13 I could make -- adjust the language about
11:43:17 encouragement of the private land, and then bring
11:43:19 something back, and I can e-mail it to council.
11:43:22 And I'll doc agenda that.
11:43:24 I mean, you will see the resolution before you pass on
11:43:26 it.
11:43:26 So, I mean, I certainly can do that.
11:43:31 On the land resource management portion.
11:43:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: How about on the 12th, the CRA
11:43:39 meeting next week?
11:43:44 To the end of that meeting?
11:43:46 >>MARY MULHERN: June 12 public hearing.
11:43:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The 12th, the CRA meeting.
11:43:58 I'm ahead of myself.
11:44:06 So we have a heavy workshop next week, on the 22nd.
11:44:12 You are trying to do it the 19th of what, of June?
11:44:15 Thom, what were you saying about the Planning
11:44:21 Commission?
11:44:23 >>THOM SNELLING: June 2nd, June 9th?
11:44:27 And I have already been in contact with Mr. Terry
11:44:29 Cullen, and go through that and do the presentation on
11:44:33 that.

11:44:33 So, you know, we still have time to do that.
11:44:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And you are going to bring this
11:44:39 back on June 12th.
11:44:43 >>> For that you really do have to set a public
11:44:46 hearing of the ordinance.
11:44:48 The resolution, it just gets on your agenda, you pass
11:44:50 it as a resolution, there's no public hearing actually
11:44:53 required but for the ordinance portion chapter 13 and
11:44:55 chapter 17.5 you are required to have a public hearing
11:44:57 with due notice.
11:45:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm trying to figure out.
11:45:02 Do you have any sense, Mr. Chairman?
11:45:04 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a long agenda.
11:45:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can we put it at the end?
11:45:12 >>GWEN MILLER: I don't know what time it would be.
11:45:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a motion?
11:45:24 >> Second.
11:45:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me just clarify.
11:45:28 I'm not in whole agreement with everything on here.
11:45:30 I think he would made good progress in hashing out the
11:45:33 differences between council's position and
11:45:41 administration position but I think worry close enough

11:45:42 where we can let them do it and then we can keep
11:45:46 banging these out in between now and June 12th.
11:45:48 But I would like to see this on the June 12th
11:45:51 agenda after the CRA meeting for first reading.
11:45:56 And that would be my motion.
11:45:57 >> Second.
11:46:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You can have special discussion on
11:46:18 the 19th.
11:46:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's at the end of the
11:46:22 comprehensive plan workshop which I'm sure is going to
11:46:24 be equally busy.
11:46:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It will have to be noticed as a City
11:46:30 Council meeting on that date.
11:46:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What is your motion?
11:46:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to set a regular
11:46:36 meeting at the end of the CRA meeting on June
11:46:38 12th, and the first item of business would be the
11:46:42 first public hearing for the green ordinance.
11:46:57 We can call it 11 a.m. on the 12th.
11:47:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion.
11:47:07 Is there a second?
11:47:08 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.

11:47:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let it be known by Aye.
11:47:11 Opposes?
11:47:14 >>THOM SNELLING: Council, in the motion, please make
11:47:17 sure we are setting the public hearing for a portion
11:47:21 to chapter 13 and to amendment to 17.5.
11:47:23 There will be two ordinances in front of you that day,
11:47:26 not a single ordinance.
11:47:27 There will be two ordinances in front of you.
11:47:31 We are figuring it out right now.
11:47:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Why don't we figure it out and come
11:47:48 back.
11:47:48 Item 75.
11:47:50 We voted already.
11:47:51 Item 75.
11:47:56 Councilman Miranda.
11:48:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm certainly not against sidewalk.
11:48:06 I think it's a wonderful thing and great thing but I
11:48:08 also realize we have some deficiencies.
11:48:11 Let me explain what they are.
11:48:12 First of all there's no appeal to this ordinance.
11:48:15 There's appeal to other things that we do like this
11:48:18 morning we had something that came up and they are

11:48:20 going to try to work it out with the administration.
11:48:23 If not it will be appealed to this council.
11:48:26 That ordinance has no appeal process.
11:48:28 There are no exceptions for individual things that
11:48:31 happen, and they just force to you pay in lieu.
11:48:35 And you can sit down for about four or five minutes.
11:48:38 Won't take a whole lot of time.
11:48:40 So -- thank you, Mr. Lee.
11:48:43 What happens is this.
11:48:44 You want to comply with the ordinance.
11:48:50 You have every intention to comply with the ordinance
11:48:51 but you live in a home that has an 8-foot ditch in
11:48:56 front of your house or if you are in a corner lot you
11:48:58 are worse off, you have an 8-foot ditch on one side
11:49:01 and 8-foot ditch on the other side.
11:49:03 However, we, the leaders of this community, say, you
11:49:06 know what?
11:49:07 You build the sidewalk on your own property to. Me
11:49:11 that's a violation of the law because it says very
11:49:13 clearly that sidewalks are to be built on public
11:49:15 rights-of-way.
11:49:15 That's number one.

11:49:19 Number two, we say listen, an individual of normal to
11:49:29 high intelligence is going to walk threw down the
11:49:32 pavement is going to jump an 8-foot feet, walk 50
11:49:34 feet, jump an 8-foot ditch to get out.
11:49:37 That's what we do.
11:49:39 So I'm saying, something needs to be fixed.
11:49:47 We are in the process of zonings.
11:49:49 There has been at least one, two, three that I can
11:49:52 remember right now where we as council told those
11:49:57 individuals, you meet the criteria on one side or the
11:50:00 other side.
11:50:01 But on the other side, there is no right-of-way.
11:50:06 So we tell them, well, I'll tell you what we are going
11:50:09 to do.
11:50:10 You put the sidewalk on your property.
11:50:13 To me that's a violation.
11:50:14 And anytime that I have said something out of line,
11:50:18 I'm pretty used to being corrected.
11:50:20 So at any time that the legal department wants to jump
11:50:22 in and say, listen, Mr. Charlie Miranda, you're wrong,
11:50:26 I'll accept that without any argument.
11:50:29 So when we tell you, build the sidewalk, what we don't

11:50:33 say is this -- some property owner may say, okay,
11:50:37 you're forcing me to build the sidewalk on my
11:50:39 property, a taking on my property without any
11:50:42 realization to anybody.
11:50:43 And let me tell what you I am going to do, not that
11:50:45 it's been done but they can do it.
11:50:46 And again I ask the legal department to correct me.
11:50:49 They can build a wall around that sidewalk on their
11:50:51 property and there's nothing the city can do.
11:50:54 That's their property.
11:50:55 So now we have incurred all this expense, you can't
11:50:59 use the sidewalk, and it's not reality.
11:51:03 I know of two locations where we told them, you will
11:51:06 build the sidewalk, well, having been born here, that
11:51:15 is a roadway.
11:51:16 But I don't think it's a dedicated street.
11:51:18 It's an alley that's been paved.
11:51:21 One is by Wilson junior high, the other by a church in
11:51:24 Nebraska.
11:51:24 It's a one-way Edison and Diana, one way out.
11:51:31 And it's boarded by two properties that have no
11:51:35 right-of-way.

11:51:36 It's an alley.
11:51:37 So mow now we tell the property owners, you will build
11:51:40 a sidewalk.
11:51:41 Okay.
11:51:41 And if you don't build the sidewalk, then you will put
11:51:46 in lieu.
11:51:47 The same individuals that have that alley, same
11:51:50 individuals that have that ditch, we are forcing them.
11:51:53 You have an obstruction on the sidewalk where you want
11:51:56 to build it and you can't.
11:51:59 Either fire hide rapt or big oak tree that nobody
11:52:03 wants to cut down, thank God.
11:52:05 So we tell them, you can't build it, we have your
11:52:07 money.
11:52:08 So I get your sidewalk and you pay for the sidewalk
11:52:10 for Charlie.
11:52:11 That's wrong, in my opinion.
11:52:13 So I follow these steps all the way through.
11:52:16 Now, you want to combine, but you can't.
11:52:20 So now you have your ingress and egress out of your
11:52:23 own lot, your own residence.
11:52:26 What is it?

11:52:26 Called a driveway.
11:52:27 Now that might be 20 feet wide.
11:52:30 So you say, I can't build the rest of the sidewalk
11:52:32 because I have an impediment which is a fire hydrant
11:52:35 or nice street.
11:52:38 Let me tell you, you got 60 feet of sidewalk.
11:52:40 You pay 60 times 43.
11:52:42 That's your in lieu fee.
11:52:44 They don't give you the credit or they haven't given
11:52:45 you the credit, I should say, for that 20 feet that
11:52:48 you built yourself.
11:52:50 We do not take care of business in my view as humanly
11:52:57 possible, because we don't consider the human element.
11:53:01 When don't consider it either right or wrong.
11:53:03 And I think there's a lot of things in life that have
11:53:06 gray areas.
11:53:06 And I'm not saying that we should be the determiner of
11:53:08 who gets it and who doesn't get it.
11:53:11 I'm not saying that council should be the one to make
11:53:13 the determination if you have something that you can't
11:53:18 build it or something that's already there that you
11:53:19 put in.

11:53:20 I think that's an administrative part.
11:53:22 I don't wanted anything to do with that.
11:53:23 But I think the public has the right, A, to an appeal
11:53:28 process, and, B, somebody who can really look at these
11:53:32 things and say, now what?
11:53:34 Everything is not perfect.
11:53:36 But let's work and let's get these things done for
11:53:38 these people.
11:53:39 I understand that these fees are sometimes like I said
11:53:42 $43 a linear foot.
11:53:44 When we do that we are making an assumption that
11:53:47 there's 30% of all the sidewalks that we are going to
11:53:51 lay, and maybe they are right.
11:53:52 So you add another $9.726 of cost to that sidewalk.
11:53:57 When you are developing it you can build it for less.
11:53:59 But when we have to do it, it costs more.
11:54:03 And I'm not a rocket scientist.
11:54:07 But I can understand the human side of these things,
11:54:10 that sometimes to me there's an inequity that has to
11:54:13 be fixed.
11:54:14 I'm not saying let's do away with sidewalks.
11:54:16 If I was to put in a neighborhood a sidewalk, one lot

11:54:21 out of a bunch of house that is have been there for
11:54:24 40, 50, 60 years, guess what, by the time this city or
11:54:27 any other city was to finish that block, they would
11:54:30 have to tear down the original sidewalk and put in a
11:54:32 new one because it's going to take that long.
11:54:35 So I'm saying let's work together.
11:54:36 Let's get these things realized that we do have a
11:54:43 problem.
11:54:44 Of all the 2800-some calls we got in my office, thanks
11:54:48 to Mary because she answer it is phone, if the
11:54:53 majority of small complaints is from sidewalks, I can
11:54:57 name you ten locations.
11:54:58 I will also tell you, you have to build the sidewalk.
11:55:00 But next to you is a commercial building.
11:55:04 You know, code, you have to build a fence.
11:55:07 They build the fence.
11:55:08 So then they force me or you or somebody else to build
11:55:10 the sidewalk, and it ends at the fence.
11:55:14 Now that's logical.
11:55:16 That's what we do.
11:55:17 So it doesn't make, in my mind ---maybe I'm wrong.
11:55:23 I'm not telling you I'm right, members of this

11:55:26 council, but there's something that needs to be done
11:55:29 to tweak this thing so that we can all understand than
11:55:31 we are not inhuman, that we all realize things, and I
11:55:37 don't want to be somebody in administration to deal
11:55:43 with these things.
11:55:43 I can only tell you the problems that I face on a
11:55:46 day-to-day basis, and I don't have an answer to them.
11:55:49 So maybe whatever council members or whatever they
11:55:56 quantity to do.
11:55:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I did have two questions for Mr.
11:55:59 Lee.
11:55:59 And then a couple of comments.
11:56:01 Let me start with my comments.
11:56:05 Charlie, I think we have a program and I want to ask
11:56:08 Mr. Lea couple questions about the program but I agree
11:56:11 there's some inequities in the program.
11:56:13 For one thing, I think right now if you own a 100-foot
11:56:17 lot, 100 by 100 on a corner, and you for whatever
11:56:24 reason got trees or ditches or what have you, that's
11:56:27 going to cost you approximately about $8600 to
11:56:31 build -- in the in lieu fee.
11:56:36 But if your next door neighbor has a 100-foot lot that

11:56:39 he's not on a corner, he or she, only pay half of
11:56:44 that.
11:56:44 I think that's a problem.
11:56:45 I have received several calls from folks who say they
11:56:48 are being penalized because they have a corner lot.
11:56:50 And I think if there's anything council should do,
11:56:52 number one, I think we should eliminate that corner
11:56:55 inequity.
11:56:56 I think if you own a lot, and you can't build a
11:56:59 sidewalk, then you contribute the same amount into the
11:57:02 sidewalk fund as your neighbor who happens not to be
11:57:06 on a corner.
11:57:07 Number two, Charlie, you have been talking about this
11:57:10 ditch since you have been back and I have been
11:57:13 listening to it and I think you're right.
11:57:14 It's taken me about a year to get around to it.
11:57:17 But I think you're right.
11:57:20 And I think that the council could reestablish that
11:57:22 policy and say, you know, because basically, the
11:57:26 ditches have been there forever and they are going to
11:57:28 continue to be there forever, and unless chuck Walter
11:57:33 and I have been Lee and Steve Daignault come up with

11:57:37 about a billion dollars to fix these ditches and make
11:57:39 them into culverts, which I don't think is going to
11:57:42 happen, then I think these ditches will continue to be
11:57:44 there and these folks will never have sidewalks.
11:57:46 And I think that's a reality of our city.
11:57:49 So I am going to agree with you on that.
11:57:51 And the other thing I will agree with you on Charlie,
11:57:54 and I don't want it all to go to your head.
11:57:58 I agree with you on the driveway issue.
11:58:03 And unless I have been or Steve can convince us
11:58:06 otherwise I think charging people for this driveway
11:58:12 length doesn't make sense because they put pavement in
11:58:15 where thatway is.
11:58:17 So why are we charging them for that segment?
11:58:19 But the question I have for you, I have been, is this.
11:58:23 Going to the basic program -- and I don't know if you
11:58:26 have these on hand or not -- but how much money do we
11:58:29 generate annually, let's say two years ago when we
11:58:32 were building a lot of this community how much money
11:58:35 was being generated just black through the sidewalk in
11:58:38 lieu fund?
11:58:39 And I know we spend it wisely because we got tons of

11:58:42 places to build.
11:58:44 And I'm just wondering how big is this program in
11:58:46 terms of the in lieu fees that are generated through
11:58:49 this program, when things were booming?
11:58:50 >>> Chairman Scott, Irvin Lee, director of public
11:58:58 works.
11:58:59 I have to get back to you on that.
11:59:00 >> Any ballpark on it?
11:59:04 Okay.
11:59:05 And the other question is, just generally, you know,
11:59:08 what type of property generates the funds?
11:59:11 I know we have tree issues, on some properties where
11:59:15 we have ditch issues on other properties.
11:59:18 Am I missing any?
11:59:19 Sometimes I get hydrant issues.
11:59:23 >> Primarily it's your drainage and that's ditches,
11:59:28 swales, things of that nature nature, and grand tree.
11:59:34 >> I guess way need to know before we move forward is
11:59:39 how much money we generate annually two years ago for
11:59:42 this, and how much money we would lose if we
11:59:45 eliminated the ditches.
11:59:48 And then with that information, I guess we can make a

11:59:52 policy decision to see where we are going to go on
11:59:54 that.
11:59:55 >>> We can provide that information to you.
11:59:57 But again the overriding consideration of our program
11:59:59 is connectivity.
12:00:01 And that's part of the challenge that we run into when
12:00:05 we look at these situations.
12:00:15 Whether it's built at some later date when conditions
12:00:17 are favorable.
12:00:20 It's access --
12:00:24 >> And I think we are totally in agreement with that.
12:00:26 We want to have as many sidewalks as possible.
12:00:34 , the grand trees are not getting any smaller, they
12:00:36 are getting bigger, and so I don't know even in the
12:00:40 long-term that that changes.
12:00:44 And wove to balance that with the equity to these
12:00:47 individual homeowners.
12:00:54 >> I.
12:00:55 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to say I'm glad, we don't
12:01:00 need sidewalks to know where, that the idea of having
12:01:02 sidewalks everywhere is wonderful, but it doesn't
12:01:04 work.

12:01:04 So I think I would support going forward, maybe Mr.
12:01:09 Miranda can work with legal trying to rewrite our
12:01:14 sidewalks code so that it makes sense.
12:01:17 And I don't really think it matters how much revenue
12:01:19 we are getting from it.
12:01:21 If we are imposing something unfairly on people that
12:01:24 they can't do, less -- let's find the revenue
12:01:28 somewhere else.
12:01:31 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Lee, what is the in lieu fee
12:01:34 for a home owner to pay for a sidewalk?
12:01:36 How much?
12:01:37 >>> $43 per linear foot.
12:01:40 >> What does it cost the city to put this sidewalk in?
12:01:44 >>> In '07-08 our average cost was $57.
12:01:48 >> $57?
12:01:51 So if somebody today -- concrete is very high in
12:01:54 today's market.
12:01:55 So if you are collecting $47, and eventually if the
12:02:00 concrete goes down, do you give a rebate to these
12:02:03 clients?
12:02:04 >>> No, we don't.
12:02:10 We spend the funding within the district, the impact

12:02:13 fees, the sidewalk in the district, not just with the
12:02:17 city.
12:02:17 >> Who does these sidewalks?
12:02:19 Does the city do it or --
12:02:22 >>> We bid the work out.
12:02:23 >> It's coming in that $57 a lineal foot?
12:02:26 >>> For the work that we were doing in '07 and for
12:02:31 this year.
12:02:33 >> It seems very, very high, $57 a foot.
12:02:35 >>> There's a variety of things that go into what it
12:02:39 costs at a particular location.
12:02:42 But, yes.
12:02:43 Driveways, for example, is something that drives up
12:02:46 the cost of a particular block because again if a
12:02:50 driveway does not meet the slope for ADA issues, then
12:02:56 we have to go back and we have to rebuild that
12:02:58 portion, and that's another reason why, when we
12:03:03 calculate that in lieu fee, that helps to address
12:03:08 situations like that where we have to go back and redo
12:03:11 a driveway that has a slope that would be detrimental
12:03:14 to someone, say, on either in a wheelchair or someone
12:03:19 who was sight impaired who walks up an angle that's

12:03:25 uncomfortable.
12:03:25 >> But if a person has a cement driveway already, do
12:03:28 you discount that or do you include that?
12:03:30 Is that inclusive in your price?
12:03:33 >>> It is inclusive.
12:03:35 That distance is included in the in lieu fee
12:03:38 calculation.
12:03:38 >> In other words the driveway is already there and
12:03:41 you are not going to put anything else there, why
12:03:43 don't you give them a credit for that 13 feet or 14
12:03:46 feat feet that they have?
12:03:48 >> That's the way the ordinance is written, sir.
12:03:49 >> Well, it's got to be changed because it's not fair
12:03:52 and that's what government has got to southbound fair
12:03:54 to the people.
12:03:55 It's not fair.
12:03:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That you know again.
12:04:00 And I want to say this.
12:04:01 This department has really worked hard.
12:04:03 And I'll give you some specifics on both sides of the
12:04:06 issue.
12:04:07 But they have to work with what they have.

12:04:09 And this is what they have.
12:04:11 So I am not debating Mr. Lee or Mr. Steve Daignault or
12:04:15 anyone else.
12:04:15 It's what they have to work with.
12:04:17 That's what was created.
12:04:18 When they came in they had an inheritance.
12:04:21 Unfortunately for them there was no money being
12:04:23 inherited, just a lot of hard work.
12:04:25 No matter how you turn around you get criticized and
12:04:28 tick he will you some success on doing a marvelous
12:04:31 sidewalk, two or three, they are handicapped and it's
12:04:34 working out very well.
12:04:36 I can tell through was a dispute and it was settled by
12:04:38 the department.
12:04:39 So I can tell you the good things about it.
12:04:40 But it's not about these individuals and it's not
12:04:42 about the department.
12:04:43 It's about what they have to work with.
12:04:44 And this is what I am trying to get to.
12:04:47 Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
12:04:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions?
12:04:52 We will be in recess until 1:30.

12:04:54 >>> I just returned from a hurricane conference and I
12:04:58 want to put a plug in for the city's hurricane Expo on
12:05:01 the 31st of May at MOSI.
12:05:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
12:05:05 We will be in recess till 1:30.
12:05:59 (City Council recess taken at 12:06 p.m.)
13:06:02



Tampa City Council
Thursday, May 15, 2008
1:30 p.m. session

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13:35:04 [Sounding gavel]
13:35:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
13:35:13 order.
13:35:13 Roll call.
13:35:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
13:35:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:35:19 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
13:35:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
13:35:26 Okay, we need to go back to item 75.
13:35:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, thank you for your
13:35:31 indulgence.

13:35:32 Item number 75, I think we should recommend that had
13:35:34 the be sent to the legal department.
13:35:35 I think the discussion, they can ascertain what needs
13:35:39 to be done on that ordinance to tweak it and make it
13:35:42 better for everyone, I believe.
13:35:43 So with that I move we send it to the legal department
13:35:45 to have it redrafted to what the contents of the
13:35:50 conversation were earlier this afternoon.
13:35:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: To the maker of the motion, do you
13:35:54 wish to have a date?
13:35:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Just leave it be.
13:36:00 It been like this for awhile.
13:36:01 I don't want to rush them.
13:36:02 I know they have other things but I'm sure it will be
13:36:04 done.
13:36:05 Thank you very much.
13:36:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor let it be known by Aye.
13:36:09 Opposes?
13:36:10 Moved and ordered.
13:36:11 76 we deleted.
13:36:14 77, councilman Mulhern about the budget.
13:36:20 We will take that up later when she comes in.

13:36:23 We dealt with 79 already.
13:36:31 I'm sorry, 78.
13:36:33 Item 78, Caetano.
13:36:37 And this was staff report dealing with a legal opinion
13:36:41 on the surplus vehicles and the sales tax.
13:36:45 I think our attorney.
13:36:52 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
13:36:53 I had a discussion with Mr. Caetano, saying we have
13:36:56 basically given procedures to our purchasing
13:36:58 department to make sure we are collecting the sales
13:37:01 tax.
13:37:01 Sales tax get a little difficult sometimes because you
13:37:06 have in-state dealers, out of state dealers and they
13:37:09 weren't sure what some of the procedures were and I
13:37:12 think we have straight ended that out.
13:37:16 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you, sir.
13:37:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?
13:37:20 We won't need to take action on that then.
13:37:23 Item 80.
13:37:28 I'm going to come back.
13:37:29 We'll come back.
13:37:32 We'll come back to 77.

13:37:34 Item 80.
13:37:36 >> Hamilton, legal department.
13:37:38 The City Council has requested the drafting of an
13:37:41 ordinance, for local preference and procurement.
13:37:43 Based on the research that I have done, based on our
13:37:48 charter provisions, supreme court case, as well as
13:37:51 Constitutional issues, I don't think that it would be
13:37:55 logical for the city to adopt such an ordinance.
13:38:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, thank you very much
13:38:01 again.
13:38:01 I believe -- I'm not disagreeing with the fine
13:38:06 attorney.
13:38:06 I think it's more of a charter issue than a
13:38:11 Constitutional issue.
13:38:12 Maybe it's charter but the way it's drafted doesn't
13:38:15 allow that.
13:38:16 Am I on the right track?
13:38:18 >>> Well, I think our charter provision is a little
13:38:20 ambiguous in the reading of what our procurement
13:38:23 method is, competitive procurement method.
13:38:27 However, there are other issues such as the Supreme
13:38:30 Court case where the city is bound by the Supreme

13:38:32 Court case of 1928, Adolphus vs. Baskin, and that
13:38:36 basically says that the taxpayers money should be
13:38:40 spent on the most valuable item, being the lowest
13:38:45 responsible bidder, basically.
13:38:48 The supreme court case ruling in Florida.
13:38:51 That's never been overruled so we are bound by that
13:38:55 opinion.
13:38:56 There is also Constitutional issues.
13:39:00 Basically, would you get by through the issues but the
13:39:05 immunity clause, probably the city would have to do
13:39:07 some sort of research to establish a reason why we
13:39:11 would want to have a local preference, why local
13:39:14 vendors not provided the same opportunities as
13:39:20 non-local vendors.
13:39:22 That's basically the way that reads, and the way cases
13:39:24 have also come down on that, that you would need some
13:39:27 sort of research.
13:39:28 But you still have the supreme court case, and that's
13:39:31 never been overruled.
13:39:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am certainly not trying to change
13:39:35 a legal opinion.
13:39:36 I'm not qualified to do that N.your research are there

13:39:38 any cities -- and I understood what you said -- that
13:39:41 are doing that presently in the State of Florida at
13:39:42 all?
13:39:43 >>> There are a number of cities doing local
13:39:45 preference.
13:39:45 There's some that have recently been enacted also but
13:39:48 I am not aware of any legal challenges thus far.
13:39:51 So that is a risk that you would run.
13:39:54 Someone coming forward, challenging it on charter
13:39:58 issues, Constitutional issues.
13:40:02 And I'm not telling you that there aren't because
13:40:06 there are.
13:40:07 Hillsborough County looked into the issue over several
13:40:08 years, and to this point they have not adopted
13:40:11 anything.
13:40:16 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry because I haven't really had
13:40:18 a chance to read your memo on this.
13:40:21 But since we did have someone in the audience today
13:40:24 who gave us a large packet, I think it would be worth
13:40:30 our doing a little reading and a little research on
13:40:33 our own and maybe having a workshop or a discussion at
13:40:37 a later point.

13:40:40 I don't think we are going to have time today to
13:40:42 really even get into it.
13:40:43 But if we could look at what some other municipalities
13:40:48 are doing, and have a discussion about whether we
13:40:53 really feel that it's a huge risk or it's
13:40:58 Constitutionally not going to work.
13:41:00 So that would be my proposal to make put it on a
13:41:06 workshop day for discussion.
13:41:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: My problem is not the workshop, my
13:41:18 problem is the legal department researched this and
13:41:20 tell me -- they don't think it's feasible and that
13:41:23 Hillsborough County doesn't have one, and there may be
13:41:26 others.
13:41:26 That's why I asked that question.
13:41:27 Others in the state that have it.
13:41:29 But she has explained to us that she feels that that
13:41:32 is not constitutionally respected of the facts, that
13:41:36 I'm a little hesitant, although I wants to help people
13:41:40 in this area.
13:41:41 I'm caught between a bind.
13:41:43 So is there any way out of this bind legally?
13:41:49 >>> As I say, I think the Adolphus case tells you are

13:41:54 legally bound to go with the lowest bidder.
13:41:57 We previously had this come forward I believe to City
13:42:01 Council.
13:42:01 There was a legal opinion rendered, and she arrived at
13:42:07 the same conclusion.
13:42:08 She did not include the Constitutional issues.
13:42:10 She relied solely on the Adolphus case did not point
13:42:18 out anytime of the Constitutional issues.
13:42:19 But there are Constitutional issues besides the
13:42:21 charter which obviously could be amended.
13:42:23 But as the charter reads now, that is my reading, that
13:42:27 is the lowest responsible bidder.
13:42:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I know that we took this issue at the
13:42:34 county commission when I was over there several years
13:42:36 ago back when Joe Chillura was on the board and our
13:42:41 county attorney told us we couldn't do it.
13:42:43 I know that came up, and said that we did not have --
13:42:46 we could not from a legal standpoint, and when I was
13:42:49 there we never enacted it.
13:42:55 It was a concern going way back when commissioner Joe
13:42:59 Chillura was on the board because he is the one that
13:43:01 raised it and did research on it and came back.

13:43:04 Plus the fact saying if you do institute one, other
13:43:13 counties said we will institute one and hurt everybody
13:43:15 across the state as well.
13:43:16 >> And that is a concern that there would be a
13:43:18 retaliatory effort on the part of any jurisdiction
13:43:21 that is not a party to this.
13:43:23 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, it strikes me that we don't
13:43:29 always take the lowest bid.
13:43:31 I mean, we have had many occurrences here where we
13:43:35 haven't accepted the lowest bid because there were
13:43:42 other considerations in the qualifications where the
13:43:47 way it was written there were other reasons why we
13:43:49 weren't accepting, you know, or awarding the contract
13:43:52 to the lowest bidder.
13:43:53 So I think there's room to talk about it.
13:43:56 Because we have done that in so many other ways.
13:43:59 And this is kind of reminding me of -- I hate to say
13:44:03 it but we finally are adopting the WMBE ordinance,
13:44:07 which we did talk about for my year here.
13:44:12 But I'm sure we talked about even longer than that
13:44:14 before we were on council.
13:44:16 I think it's worth discussion.

13:44:19 If no one else wants to, I'll just do my own research
13:44:22 and talk to people.
13:44:23 But, I mean, we could have a special discussion
13:44:27 meeting.
13:44:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: My mind slipped.
13:44:33 I was listening to the conversation of Ms. Mulhern and
13:44:36 I was trying to remember what I was going to say.
13:44:39 I got lost somewhere.
13:44:44 I started in that same seat, Ms. Mulhern.
13:44:47 So you work to this side and then you're out of
13:44:49 office.
13:44:50 But in all seriousness, there are bid processes and
13:44:58 all bids are different.
13:44:59 Sometimes you don't go with the lowest bidder.
13:45:00 And I'm not here to defend the administration or the
13:45:03 bid processor anything else.
13:45:04 There are certain qualifications that you have in bid
13:45:06 process.
13:45:07 And I will just bring one for instance.
13:45:09 You have to do 1500 or something in order to be able
13:45:12 to qualify for that something.
13:45:14 But in that process, you have only done 900 of them.

13:45:18 And all the rest of the bidders have 2200, 2300 that
13:45:22 they have done.
13:45:22 So when the bids are analyzed, you might be the lowest
13:45:25 bidder, but on that one segment, rightly or wrongly,
13:45:29 they disregard that for not having enough experience
13:45:32 on the job, and therefore they knock you down to
13:45:35 fourth or fifth.
13:45:36 I am not here to pass judgment.
13:45:37 I'm not an attorney.
13:45:38 I have got to listen to what they tell me.
13:45:40 And believe in what they are saying is a fact and I
13:45:43 believe that.
13:45:44 So I understand, and I have jut most respect for all
13:45:49 those that made a bid that were involved in the bid
13:45:52 process.
13:45:55 There are these things that sometimes I can't resolve.
13:45:57 The board can't resolve.
13:45:59 And I don't know how else to put it.
13:46:03 Even though in my opinion it wouldn't be county to
13:46:05 county.
13:46:05 It would be state, where did you business within the
13:46:09 state, or that stigma of countyism is gone.

13:46:16 And the chairman so eloquently put it that when he was
13:46:19 at county commission, that's where the same problem
13:46:24 came up.
13:46:28 >>GWEN MILLER: I would go with our attorney's opinion.
13:46:31 I think we need to move on.
13:46:33 She wouldn't give us the wrong opinion.
13:46:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just coming into this discussion I
13:46:43 have a feeling what I probably missed was the legal
13:46:45 department says under our existing charter we can't or
13:46:48 shouldn't do this.
13:46:49 Under our existing charter, correct?
13:46:52 >>> Under the existing charter and also the Florida
13:46:54 Supreme Court case is controlling.
13:46:57 It's never been overruled.
13:46:59 It's a 1928 case.
13:47:01 And also Constitutional issues.
13:47:04 Primarily the privilege is an immunity clause.
13:47:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So it speaks to doing preference
13:47:12 between counties, the Florida Supreme Court case?
13:47:15 >>> Florida Supreme Court case basically says the
13:47:18 taxpayers money should be spent in a reasonable
13:47:21 fashion, not arbitrarily, and basically you should

13:47:24 select the lowest bidder.
13:47:28 >> Has there been challenge specifically in regard to
13:47:33 municipalities trying to do local preference?
13:47:37 >>> There is actually only two cases that I came
13:47:39 across.
13:47:40 The fifth DCA an third DCA.
13:47:42 Third agreed with the Adolphus case based on the fact
13:47:49 that there was a competitive bidding process in place
13:47:51 going to the lowest bidder, and also in the public
13:47:54 policy issue regarding going to the lowest bidder.
13:47:57 On the other case which I cited in the memo that had a
13:48:03 dissent that agreed with Adolphus it went the other
13:48:05 direction saying that there was nothing to prevent you
13:48:08 from going with other than the lowest bidder, all
13:48:14 though a preference could be --
13:48:15 >> What district was that?
13:48:17 >>> That was if T fifth.
13:48:19 >> So the second never spoke to it?
13:48:20 >>> No, not to my reading.
13:48:22 >> You know, I think local preference is a good idea,
13:48:25 especially not just doing it with this county but just
13:48:28 doing it on a bay area basis.

13:48:31 I think that there are many good reasons to do that.
13:48:35 It always bothers me when I see a bid come in from the
13:48:41 panhandle, specifically from Milton, Florida.
13:48:44 There's a dealer up there who bids on our car
13:48:47 purchases regularly, and I'm sure they are wonderful
13:48:51 people, but, you know, it's like --let ask the people
13:48:56 where the heck is Milton, Florida?
13:48:58 It's up there by Pensacola.
13:49:00 That's fine and good but really doesn't help our bay
13:49:02 area economy at all.
13:49:03 And I think that's just one small example of the type
13:49:06 of thing that I think local preference could be good.
13:49:09 I think the way we could get there is if we amended
13:49:11 our charter, put it to the citizens of this city.
13:49:16 We shouldn't amend it or can't amend it ourselves but
13:49:20 we can put an amendment on the ballot for this fall,
13:49:22 put it to the citizens of this city, do you think
13:49:24 local preference is a good thing?
13:49:26 And let the folks decide.
13:49:28 Once we amend the charter to allow local preference,
13:49:32 if somebody wants to challenge it down the road they
13:49:34 could challenge it down the road and then we'll cross

13:49:36 that bridge when we get to it.
13:49:38 But that would be my leaning.
13:49:39 I think there are very good, sound policy reasons, but
13:49:43 I'm sure legal is not speaking to any of those policy
13:49:45 reasons about why we should amend the charter to allow
13:49:50 local preference.
13:49:58 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know if you heard, John, but
13:50:00 my question even from the legal standpoint that we
13:50:03 award bids fairly often to the bidder that is not the
13:50:07 lowest bidder because there are other considerations
13:50:10 in each bid, and I'm not convinced that local
13:50:13 preferences, there isn't a way to make that part of
13:50:17 it, if we can do it with other kinds of preferences.
13:50:20 I mean, every single bid you have to meet all these
13:50:23 requirements, and we throw out bids because they
13:50:27 haven't done this and haven't done that.
13:50:29 What I'm suggesting is it's worth further discussion
13:50:31 on -- I don't even know if we have got enough votes
13:50:34 here to even want to do that.
13:50:38 But I think the benefits of it are obvious.
13:50:41 If you hire people here, you buy products from people,
13:50:45 where you live, the money comes back, into the

13:50:48 economy.
13:50:49 So there's an obvious benefit that, you know, I don't
13:50:53 everyone think we need to talk about it.
13:50:55 It's really more about whether we can do it.
13:50:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I guess I have heard of other
13:51:00 jurisdictions.
13:51:01 It's not a function of throwing out bidders because
13:51:03 they are not from here, it's just giving a preference,
13:51:05 like giving a 5% or 10% preference.
13:51:08 And I've heard -- and I'm sure you have seen those
13:51:11 situations where other jurisdictions do exactly that.
13:51:14 >>> There's different ways of doing it.
13:51:17 They base it on a monetary amount and percentage
13:51:21 amount, certain procurements, and there's numerous
13:51:24 ways, retaliatory ones, outside the state or outside
13:51:30 the locality has a preference ordinance.
13:51:33 There could be a retaliatory action where the city
13:51:36 could use it to their advantage and there's different
13:51:43 ways to handle it.
13:51:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: David, if I could, just to change
13:51:47 the paradigm a little bit, do you have any legal
13:51:50 problem with us considering an amendment to our

13:51:53 charter that would somehow modify this language, to
13:51:58 loosen it up a little bit, and then after we did that
13:52:01 we could then if that passed revisit the purchasing
13:52:11 ordinance that we operate under to look at the
13:52:13 possibilities.
13:52:15 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
13:52:16 A couple of points.
13:52:18 I want to make clear that you know what our opinion
13:52:20 was today, and as Marcy indicated, and she did the
13:52:25 analysis and I reviewed it, her view is that Adolphus
13:52:30 case which is unresponsive, a Florida Supreme Court
13:52:33 case, as you know, unrebutted in the second district,
13:52:36 only rebutted in the fifth district.
13:52:37 So it would be our legal opinion that the precedent to
13:52:41 the extent it's out there creates a significant risk,
13:52:45 and that was the same opinion that Stafford did in a
13:52:50 city opinion and the same opinion a county attorney
13:52:53 gave the last couple of times the county gave it and
13:52:56 as you know as a lawyer there's always arguments we
13:52:58 can make but I want to make sure that we are clear
13:53:00 that the precedent that is out there, and it is
13:53:03 controlling, says, no, you cannot do that.

13:53:06 Now, will the supreme court overturn that opinion?
13:53:09 Could we challenge that opinion on a policy basis?
13:53:13 You can always do those kinds of things, but that's
13:53:16 not typically what your lawyer is going to recommend
13:53:18 you do.
13:53:19 So we do have a problem based on the current status of
13:53:21 the law.
13:53:23 I just want to make sure you are clear as to the scope
13:53:26 of our opinion.
13:53:26 >> Josephine looked at it, and rest in peace she was a
13:53:31 great lawyer, but did she look at it on the basis of
13:53:34 our existing charter?
13:53:36 >>DAVID SMITH: She looked at it on the basis of an
13:53:38 amendment to the charter and said the amendment would
13:53:40 be unlawful because. Adolphus so she looked it from
13:53:44 the very perspective and she said you can't amend your
13:53:49 charter because to do so would violate the controlling
13:53:51 law of the land.
13:53:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I haven't read that case.
13:53:58 >>DAVID SMITH: And councilwoman Mulhern raised a
13:54:00 couple of very important questions, that it is
13:54:02 important that we clarify that.

13:54:04 There are several instances under section 804 of the
13:54:08 charter as well as other instances, in which it is not
13:54:10 simply the low bid.
13:54:12 It's the low responsive bidder.
13:54:14 I think councilman Miranda gave you an example of one.
13:54:18 Sometimes you do an RFQ that has a series of
13:54:21 requirements in order for you to be a qualified
13:54:23 bidder.
13:54:23 And I think the argument that councilwoman Mulhern is
13:54:26 making is why can't locality or location be one of
13:54:30 those factors?
13:54:31 And unfortunately it's our opinion based upon the
13:54:32 Adolphus case that it cannot be, at least to be
13:54:36 consistent with that opinion.
13:54:38 Now, to clarify the issue that was raised earlier was
13:54:43 the idea that the CCNA statute, which is the state
13:54:46 statute, does articulate location as a factor that can
13:54:50 be considered.
13:54:52 One could argue analogically that therefore means --
13:54:55 and I think this is the argument you heard -- that
13:54:57 therefore constitutes a competitive procurement under
13:55:01 section 8.04 of your charter.

13:55:03 But it is an analog but it is also a unique and
13:55:06 specific instance, because the CCNA deals with
13:55:09 professionals, engineers, et cetera, people with
13:55:12 unique skill sets.
13:55:14 Your charter has exceptions for other kinds of unique
13:55:16 skill sets.
13:55:17 Typically, attorneys, accountants, and other
13:55:19 professionals are not hired on a competitive process
13:55:22 at all.
13:55:23 They are hired on a process that's different from
13:55:25 that.
13:55:26 And certainly when we award CCNA contracts, location
13:55:30 is one of the factors the city is allowed to consider.
13:55:34 Without giving you too much information.
13:55:35 >> You mentioned before, what is the risk?
13:55:37 You said there is a risk.
13:55:38 To me it's not a Constitutional issue, so therefore
13:55:42 it's not, you know, a civil rights 1983 risk.
13:55:46 So the risk is that ultimately somebody challenges it,
13:55:49 they get the bid overturned, you know, we have some
13:55:54 in-house attorneys fees, and we don't pay that much
13:56:00 anyway.

13:56:00 >> Let me try to answer that as accurately as I can.
13:56:03 I do not believe it is a 1983 risk.
13:56:06 I think the risk is whether or not any ordinance that
13:56:08 you pass is therefore valid. The problem that comes
13:56:12 with that, if it is an ordinance it governs our
13:56:15 bidding process.
13:56:16 We have a lot of bids that could have been issued on
13:56:18 the basis of an ordinance that could subsequently be
13:56:20 found to be unlawful, and we have a nightmare on our
13:56:23 hands in terms of the procurement.
13:56:25 It would be far better if there were a policy
13:56:28 consensus to pursue this aggressively to try to seek a
13:56:32 declaratory action, have it determined in advance,
13:56:34 because unwrapping many awards that may have happened
13:56:38 pursuant to an ordinance that is subsequently found to
13:56:41 be unconstitutional could be a real problem for the
13:56:44 city.
13:56:49 >> We need to move --
13:56:53 >> The Adolphus case was the one that said you have to
13:56:57 take the lowest bid?
13:56:59 Is that correct?
13:57:01 >>DAVID SMITH: Yes, ma'am.

13:57:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 77.
13:57:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Linda had made a motion that was
13:57:21 revised.
13:57:21 There may or may not be people here today that were
13:57:24 told at the last meeting that we were going to
13:57:27 bring -- council was going to bring some names to a
13:57:34 point to a budget advisory committee, a citizens
13:57:37 advisory committee.
13:57:39 What I would like to do after having spoken with
13:57:43 Bonnie Wise, our finance director, is to do this and
13:57:50 make a process for this, but similar to our other
13:57:52 advisory boards, and that would be simply to -- and I
13:57:57 will work with Bonnie Wise, and whoever in legal, I
13:58:01 don't know if it would be Sal, or probably with Marty,
13:58:03 to write the rules for this advisory board, it would
13:58:08 be a sunshine board, and follow all those rules.
13:58:13 We would go through the same process we do with other
13:58:16 committees and boards, where we would notify people as
13:58:26 public notice, whatever way that the clerk does that,
13:58:30 that we are going to have seven members, we are going
13:58:33 to have seven members to be on this advisory board.
13:58:37 Anyone can apply.

13:58:39 Each of us -- we had discussed this a few times
13:58:42 before, and the idea, I think we agreed on, was each
13:58:45 of us could appoint one person.
13:58:48 Each council member appoint one person to be on the
13:58:51 citizens advisory committee.
13:58:53 But I think what we need to do is go through the
13:58:57 public notice process that we are looking for people
13:59:00 to do that.
13:59:01 So if you have someone in mind, you just tell them to
13:59:05 apply.
13:59:06 But anyone who wants can apply.
13:59:09 And then I think what we would do is come back at our
13:59:13 next meeting.
13:59:16 In the meantime I'll work with Bonnie and with Marty
13:59:19 to come up with defining -- creating the board, and in
13:59:24 the meantime the clerk can notice this, and then
13:59:31 that's like I think three weeks is our next council
13:59:33 meeting, is that right? So would that give enough
13:59:36 time for you to -- Shirley, for you to notice?
13:59:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Advertise for applications, enough
13:59:46 time to receive the applications?
13:59:48 >>MARY MULHERN: We could come back with a board idea

13:59:51 at the next meeting and then we could ask to have it
13:59:53 advertised.
13:59:54 That probably makes more sense.
13:59:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: One thing, I agree with everything you
13:59:58 said except for one thing.
14:00:00 I don't think -- if I am going to appoint someone, I
14:00:04 want to know who I am pointing, they don't need to
14:00:06 apply.
14:00:07 I have done this over and over again.
14:00:09 So right now, if we want to appoint somebody today, I
14:00:11 could say, okay, I want this person to serve as my
14:00:14 representative.
14:00:14 That's what we are doing.
14:00:15 And they can draft all the outlines, all the
14:00:17 guidelines in terms of a replying, because ultimately,
14:00:22 if they are applying, they are going to ab replying to
14:00:24 you because they are your point.
14:00:26 You can't tell me who to appoint and I can't tell how
14:00:29 to appoint.
14:00:29 >>MARY MULHERN: That's fine if you think we can do it
14:00:32 that way.
14:00:32 One of the reasons I wanted to go through the process

14:00:34 where people apply is because I think some of us are
14:00:39 interested in -- aren't interested in appointing
14:00:44 anyone so we would each have at least one person that
14:00:47 the council could vote to approve as a 7th person,
14:00:52 so you would still be pointing whoever you wanted, but
14:00:58 they would formally apply, we would know what their
14:01:01 qualifications are, it would be noticed what kind
14:01:04 of -- you know, there's certain qualifications that
14:01:06 you would want.
14:01:08 I'm sure we would all pick people with those.
14:01:11 But I just think it needs to be more of a formalized
14:01:14 process.
14:01:14 Do you agree?
14:01:15 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
14:01:16 >>MARY MULHERN: Then appoint whoever you want but they
14:01:20 just have to go through the process, the motions.
14:01:23 >>SAL TERRITO: I was just going to suggest that you
14:01:25 have your policies in place before you start choosing
14:01:28 people, only because they should be aware of what it
14:01:31 is they are going to be doing under sunshine, under
14:01:33 ethics restrictions, maybe financial disclosure.
14:01:36 I'm not sure of any of those issues now.

14:01:38 You may want to have that in place so he or she knows
14:01:42 what they are getting into.
14:01:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Would you still pick whoever you
14:01:47 wanted.
14:01:48 They would know what exactly the committee is going to
14:01:51 be.
14:01:52 Trying to make it formal and --
14:01:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My point is at the end of the day you
14:02:02 have a long process, advertisement, applications, and
14:02:07 perhaps you already know who you are going to appoint
14:02:09 to the board.
14:02:15 >>MARY MULHERN: I just think at some point, if it's
14:02:17 sunshine, I thought that we needed the person has to
14:02:23 actually apply or tell how they are and we have to
14:02:26 have some kind of record.
14:02:28 And as Sal said, we need to create the board, know
14:02:31 what the policies are and what the requirements are
14:02:34 and what the limitations for that person is.
14:02:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Miller.
14:02:38 >>GWEN MILLER: I think we need to wait like Sal
14:02:41 Territo says, let's come up with the guidelines first.
14:02:46 You might appoint somebody that's not even qualified

14:02:48 to be on that board.
14:02:49 So leave the names off.
14:02:53 Let Marty come up with the guidelines, give them to
14:02:57 us, and then appoint a person we think that fits
14:03:01 these.
14:03:02 Today you can appoint somebody and they might not even
14:03:05 be qualified to be on that board.
14:03:06 Let's wait and get the guidelines in place before we
14:03:08 even think about appointment.
14:03:09 >>MARY MULHERN: That's way was trying to do here so we
14:03:12 would just come back, put it on at the next council
14:03:14 meeting, will come back with guidelines, and the
14:03:17 description.
14:03:19 And the other thing I wanted -- the other reason I
14:03:21 thought we should go through this more formal process
14:03:24 is because there are other municipalities who do this
14:03:27 and I have been talking to the finance director in
14:03:28 Largo, and, you know, they have a whole process.
14:03:32 It's very similar to what we do, but they actually --
14:03:39 what those responsibilities were --
14:03:40 You often do that.
14:03:42 If I were to appoint anybody I would appoint a CPA.

14:03:44 I already have a person in mind.
14:03:46 I have a name.
14:03:46 Why go through the process of them applying when I
14:03:49 already know who the person is and I know they
14:03:50 qualify.
14:03:51 If a CPA cannot come and go to our budget and analyze,
14:03:54 then we have problems.
14:03:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Mulhern says they don't have
14:04:00 anybody.
14:04:01 If we don't have the guidelines --
14:04:04 >>MARY MULHERN: I think we are going to have to vote
14:04:06 at least one person in.
14:04:07 And just tell your CPA, one thing that this finance
14:04:10 director said to me was, this is not for your sake,
14:04:16 because I think that makes a lot of sense, and I'm
14:04:18 sure you know who you want to appoint, but it doesn't
14:04:21 have to be a CPA.
14:04:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
14:04:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Just so we all know --
14:04:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Why don't you make a motion for the
14:04:29 guidelines --
14:04:30 >>MARY MULHERN: I make a motion to come back with the

14:04:32 guide lanes at the next council meeting which is three
14:04:34 weeks from today?
14:04:38 >>: Second.
14:04:38 >>GWEN MILLER: That would be June 5th.
14:04:43 June the 5th.
14:04:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
14:05:03 (Motion carried).
14:05:04 >>MARY MULHERN: I think staff reports.
14:05:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:05:18 We now move to our public hearings second readings on
14:05:21 proposed ordinances.
14:05:23 Councilwoman Mulhern.
14:05:24 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open items 82 through --
14:05:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I ask a question?
14:05:36 There are a lot of familiar faces from the audience
14:05:38 this morning.
14:05:39 Are they here for a particular case that we can get
14:05:42 out of the way?
14:05:48 Second readings is just sort of perfunctory.
14:05:51 I wonder if there's something --
14:05:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you want to go to public hearings?
14:05:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If that's what they are here for.

14:05:59 I think it would be polite.
14:06:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Been fined for not following the --
14:06:13 I believe some people are hear for second reading.
14:06:17 Nobody is here for second reading?
14:06:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Just one or two.
14:06:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm trying to follow the agenda, now.
14:06:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's fine.
14:06:28 I thought if we could kill one big bird. If we can't.
14:06:33 >> I move to open item 82.
14:06:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Through 93.
14:06:41 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, I'm sorry.
14:06:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor let it be known by Aye.
14:06:45 Opposed same sign.
14:06:46 Okay.
14:06:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Need to swear them in.
14:06:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Those who want to speak on these
14:06:53 public hearings need to be sworn in.
14:06:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you will be speaking today on any
14:06:59 of the second readings that have been open, would you
14:07:01 please stand and raise your right hand?
14:07:07 (Oath administered by Clerk).
14:07:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, there have been

14:07:15 communications that have been available for public
14:07:17 inspection in City Council's office.
14:07:19 I would like them to be received and filed.
14:07:20 >> So moved.
14:07:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
14:07:24 (Motion carried).
14:07:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Secondly, if you have had any
14:07:30 ex parte communication please disclose those prayer to
14:07:32 the vote.
14:07:33 Lastly, ladies and gentlemen, there is a sign-in sheet
14:07:35 that you do acknowledge that you have been sworn and
14:07:37 if you wouldn't mind please do so when you state your
14:07:39 name, reaffirm that you have been sworn.
14:07:41 There's a sign to remind you.
14:07:43 Thank you.
14:07:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 82.
14:07:46 Anyone here in opposition?
14:07:48 This is really affordable housing advisory board.
14:07:57 Anyone want to speak on item 82?
14:08:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
14:08:02 >> second.
14:08:03 (Motion carried).

14:08:05 Muscle a move an ordinance for second reading, an
14:08:08 ordinance of the City of Tampa creating an affordable
14:08:10 housing advisory committee providing for term periods
14:08:13 for its members providing for duties and
14:08:15 responsibilities for the advisory committee, providing
14:08:16 for gid lanes to be used by the committee in preparing
14:08:18 an evaluation report and recommendation about local
14:08:21 affordable housing incentives strategies, providing
14:08:23 for adoption of the report and recommendations about
14:08:26 local affordable housing incentive strategies,
14:08:28 providing for amendment. City's local housing
14:08:30 assistance plan, providing for severability, providing
14:08:33 an effective date.
14:08:35 >> Second.
14:08:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
14:08:49 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Saul-Sena
14:08:52 being absent and Miranda being absent at vote.
14:08:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 83.
14:08:58 Anyone who wants to address council if you are in
14:09:01 opposition.
14:09:01 Anyone in opposition to item 83?
14:09:04 Want to address council?

14:09:08 In support?
14:09:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
14:09:10 >> Second.
14:09:11 (Motion carried).
14:09:11 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented
14:09:15 for second reading, an ordinance vacating, closing,
14:09:16 discontinuing, abandoning a certain right-of-way all
14:09:19 that alleyway lying south of Martin Luther King Jr.
14:09:22 Boulevard north of 32nd Avenue east of 52nd street and
14:09:26 west of Garrison street in Grant Park addition, a
14:09:29 subdivision in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County
14:09:32 Florida the same being more fully described in section
14:09:34 2 hereof providing an effective date.
14:09:35 >> Moved and seconded.
14:09:38 Record your vote.
14:09:45 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Saul-Sena
14:09:47 being absent and Miranda being absent at vote.
14:09:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 84.
14:09:54 Anyone in opposition?
14:09:55 >> LaChone Dock, Land Development Coordination.
14:10:01 Item 84 through 91 require certified site plans.
14:10:04 These plans have been certified by the zoning

14:10:06 administrator and have been submitted to the clerk.
14:10:08 I have copies of these if you have any questions.
14:10:11 Thank you.
14:10:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:10:17 Anyone in opposition to 84?
14:10:18 >> Move to close.
14:10:19 >> Second.
14:10:20 (Motion carried).
14:10:20 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance being presented for
14:10:23 second reading, an ordinance approving a special use
14:10:25 permit S-2 approving a bank with a drive-in window in
14:10:28 a CG, general commercial zoning district in the
14:10:32 general vicinity of 2514 West Kennedy Boulevard in the
14:10:35 city of Tampa, Florida and as more particularly
14:10:38 described in section 1 hereof, approving waivers as
14:10:42 set forth herein, providing an effective date.
14:10:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
14:10:48 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
14:10:56 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Miranda
14:11:00 being absent at vote, and Saul-Sena being absent.
14:11:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 85.
14:11:06 Anyone wishing to address council?

14:11:08 Item 85.
14:11:11 Anyone in opposition?
14:11:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
14:11:14 >> Second.
14:11:15 (Motion carried).
14:11:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 85, Mr. Caetano.
14:11:18 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance for second reading,
14:11:21 an ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity
14:11:23 ever 2520 and 2522 North Dale Mabry highway in the
14:11:26 city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly described
14:11:28 in section 1 from zoning district classifications
14:11:32 OP-1, office professional, to PD, planned development,
14:11:36 residential, retail, providing an effective date.
14:11:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Did I hear a second?
14:11:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
14:11:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
14:11:48 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Saul-Sena
14:11:55 being absent and Miranda being absent at vote.
14:12:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item number 86.
14:12:02 Anyone who wants to address council in opposition?
14:12:07 In opposition?
14:12:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.

14:12:18 >> Second.
14:12:19 (Motion carried).
14:12:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Move an ordinance on second read, an
14:12:27 ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of
14:12:29 5010 north 40th Street in the city of Tampa, Florida
14:12:33 and more particularly described in section 1 from
14:12:35 zoning district classifications CI commercial
14:12:37 intensive to PD planned development, assisted living
14:12:40 facility, providing an effective date.
14:12:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
14:12:43 >> Second.
14:12:50 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Saul-Sena
14:12:52 being absent, and Miranda being absent at vote.
14:12:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 87.
14:12:59 Anyone in opposition?
14:13:00 Item 87?
14:13:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
14:13:05 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
14:13:06 (Motion carried).
14:13:07 >>GWEN MILLER: I move to adopt the following ordinance
14:13:10 upon second reading, an ordinance rezoning property in
14:13:12 the general vicinity of 8409 north 39th Street and

14:13:16 8414 north 40th Street in the city of Tampa, Florida
14:13:19 and more particularly described in section 1 from
14:13:21 zoning district classifications CG commercial general
14:13:24 and RM-24 residential multifamily to PD planned
14:13:28 development, VFW post, providing an effective date.
14:13:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
14:13:34 >> Second.
14:13:46 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Miranda
14:13:50 absent at vote and Saul-Sena absent.
14:13:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Number 88.
14:13:54 Anyone in opposition?
14:13:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
14:13:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
14:13:57 (Motion carried).
14:13:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
14:14:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move the to adopt the following
14:14:04 ordinance upon second reading, an ordinance making
14:14:06 lawful the sale of beverages regardless of alcoholic
14:14:08 content beer, wine and liquor 11-C for consumption on
14:14:12 premises only at or from that certain lot, plots or
14:14:14 tract of land located at 8409 north 39th street
14:14:17 and 8414 north 40th Street, Tampa, Florida as more

14:14:21 particularly described in section 2 hereof waiving
14:14:23 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
14:14:25 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
14:14:27 conflict, providing an effective date.
14:14:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor -- record your vote.
14:14:34 Did we get a second?
14:14:35 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second.
14:14:44 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Saul-Sena
14:14:46 being absent and Miranda being absent at vote.
14:14:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 89.
14:14:50 Anyone in opposition?
14:14:53 Ding Dick move to close.
14:14:54 >> Second.
14:14:55 (Motion carried).
14:14:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to adopt the following
14:14:59 ordinance upon second reading, an ordinance rezoning
14:15:01 property in the general vicinity ever 5601 and 5603
14:15:05 North Armenia Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida and
14:15:07 more particularly described in section 1 from zoning
14:15:09 district classifications PD planned development,
14:15:11 restaurant, to PD, planned development, restaurant,
14:15:14 providing an effective date.

14:15:18 >> Second.
14:15:28 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Miranda
14:15:30 being absent at vote and Saul-Sena being absent.
14:15:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Number 90.
14:15:39 Anyone here to address council on number 90?
14:15:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
14:15:44 >> Second.
14:15:44 (Motion carried).
14:15:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move the following ordinance upon
14:15:48 second reading, an ordinance rezoning property in the
14:15:51 general vicinity of 10901 and 10921 Malcolm McKinley
14:15:56 drive in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
14:15:57 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
14:15:59 district classifications IH industrial heavy to PD
14:16:04 planned development multifamily residential providing
14:16:06 an effective date.
14:16:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
14:16:12 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Saul-Sena
14:16:15 being absent, and Miranda being absent at vote.
14:16:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone want to address council on item
14:16:22 91?
14:16:23 Item 91?

14:16:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
14:16:28 >> Second.
14:16:28 (Motion carried).
14:16:29 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented
14:16:33 for second reading, an ordinance rezoning property in
14:16:35 the general vicinity of 907 east CHILKOOT Avenue in
14:16:41 the city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly
14:16:43 described in section 1 from zoning district
14:16:45 classifications RS-50 residential single-family to PD
14:16:48 planned development, office, business, professional,
14:16:51 providing an effective date.
14:16:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Need a second.
14:16:55 >> Second.
14:16:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
14:17:08 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Saul-Sena
14:17:10 being absent and Miranda being absent at vote.
14:17:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Number 92.
14:17:14 Anyone want to address council?
14:17:15 Item 92.
14:17:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
14:17:18 >> Second.
14:17:19 (Motion carried).

14:17:19 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance upon second -- for
14:17:25 second adoption public hearing, an ordinance of the
14:17:27 City of Tampa designating property known as SOCIEDAD
14:17:35 L'Unione Marti Maceo located at 1226 east 7th
14:17:44 Avenue Tampa, Florida as a local landmark upon the
14:17:50 application of SOCIEDAD L'Unione.
14:17:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It looks like the language --
14:18:04 >> I'm sorry.
14:18:05 An ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida designating
14:18:09 SOCIEDAD L'Unione at 1226 East 7th Avenue Tampa,
14:18:15 Florida as more particularly described in section 3
14:18:18 hereof as a local landmark providing for repeal of all
14:18:21 ordinances in conflict, providing for severability,
14:18:23 providing an effective date.
14:18:25 >> Second.
14:18:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
14:18:30 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Saul-Sena
14:18:32 being absent, and Miranda being absent at vote.
14:18:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 93.
14:18:37 Anyone wishing to address council?
14:18:40 Item 93.
14:18:48 >>JAMES COOK: Land Development Coordination.

14:18:50 Petitioner is requesting to vacate a portion of
14:18:52 13th street, an alleyway lying between Avenue
14:18:56 Republica de Cuba, Nick Nuccio.
14:19:03 On the Elmo, this is 13th street running north
14:19:06 south.
14:19:06 Portion of the alleyway.
14:19:07 Point of reference is the Ybor trolley line.
14:19:10 I would also like to point out originally 13th
14:19:13 street existed here by Platt, vacated in 1910.
14:19:19 Unlike most vacatings in Ybor City, once this is
14:19:24 vacated they are going to rededicate the old 13th
14:19:27 street so it will actually come back into effect.
14:19:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What buildings are this?
14:19:33 >>> The petitioner can tell you what the plans but
14:19:36 it's a hotel site in Ybor City.
14:19:41 This is a shot of 13th street looking south from
14:19:43 sixth Avenue.
14:19:48 This is 13th street log north.
14:19:51 CFX railroad.
14:19:55 This is 13th street as it dead-ends into the
14:19:59 railroad.
14:19:59 At this point it heads west a this is the east-west

14:20:08 alley they are seeking to vacate being encroached
14:20:10 upon, as you can tell.
14:20:12 This is a shot of petitioner's property looking east
14:20:16 on 13th street.
14:20:21 Shot of petitioner's property looking west on 13th
14:20:23 street.
14:20:30 Petitioner's property looking south of the alleyway
14:20:32 from 13th street.
14:20:34 And final shot of petitioner's property looking east
14:20:36 from 13th street.
14:20:38 The other thing I would like to point out.
14:20:40 This is in the Ybor City historic district, the barrio
14:20:42 didn't have any objections to vacating, along with
14:20:44 petitioner is going to rededicate the old 13th
14:20:47 street.
14:20:48 Petitioner has gone on and agreed to rededicate
14:20:51 13th street and these covered in the ordinance.
14:20:55 What's also in the ordinance, petitioner -- 13th
14:21:02 street will not be vacated but the alley will stay
14:21:05 vacated and the barrio didn't have any objections to
14:21:07 that condition.
14:21:08 Staff has no objections as long as the easements are

14:21:11 reserved and the petitioner goes through the City of
14:21:13 Tampa's property disposition process.
14:21:18 The other thing I would like to point out the city is
14:21:20 the underlying fee owner to this portion of 13th
14:21:23 street.
14:21:24 Staff had no objections.
14:21:33 >> David Smith, 401 Jackson street, for the
14:21:39 petitioner.
14:21:39 Staff has pretty much described pretty well what we
14:21:41 are trying to do here.
14:21:44 Ybor 4, which is actually a partnership of architects,
14:21:50 owns the abutting property as well as on the other
14:21:54 side. Property line.
14:21:55 Applicant was in fact the entity that's dedicated and
14:22:00 provided to the city at no cost the land for the
14:22:02 trolley to actually traverse the property and get to
14:22:04 the trolley barn.
14:22:05 So what we are looking at now is an opportunity to
14:22:09 redevelop the site as a hotel site, right across the
14:22:14 street N.come to the city the first time we were only
14:22:16 talking about the actual project.
14:22:17 City staff suggested rather than trying to develop

14:22:20 around the one-way street, which comes from sixth but
14:22:24 crosses CSX right-of-way and pulls into fifth as a
14:22:29 one-way street, why wouldn't we talk about why we want
14:22:32 to move the road?
14:22:33 We met with staff.
14:22:34 Staff agreed.
14:22:34 What is provided for in the ordinance is for our
14:22:37 opportunity to try to consolidate these sites with a
14:22:41 hotel operator and actual plan.
14:22:42 If we are successful in doing that, we would then
14:22:45 rebuild 13th along the trolley as a newly
14:22:48 dedicated street, put it back on the grid, and the
14:22:51 vacation would occur so that we could develop on the
14:22:54 consolidated site.
14:22:55 In the event that is not to occur, the right-of-way
14:22:57 would still remain as right-of-way.
14:22:59 The city owns fee ownership.
14:23:01 The agreement that we are working on with city staff
14:23:05 deals with the exchange of properties, and the time
14:23:07 line within which to do that.
14:23:11 The department was of the opinion we should move
14:23:13 forward with the vacation because the ordinance

14:23:14 provides all the protections to the city that the
14:23:19 state and public use.
14:23:21 It's never been an improved alley.
14:23:23 All the alleys have been vacated, one in 1910 and the
14:23:26 others in 1974.
14:23:29 So this is a never-used remnant alley by plat.
14:23:34 In fact by the BLC review, staff from the city pointed
14:23:37 out that it was actually a building sitting across the
14:23:39 entire property at one time back in the 20s.
14:23:45 Unless there are questions, that would conclude my
14:23:48 presentation.
14:24:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have the backup material but I
14:24:03 don't have the ordinance that you want us to approve.
14:24:05 This is not the run-of-the-mill vacating.
14:24:09 So specifically, where is this contingency addressed?
14:24:23 >> Julie Kabougeris can speak to that.
14:24:29 She was the drafter.
14:24:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It looks like section 8 addresses
14:24:37 this swath.
14:24:39 >> Julie Kabougeris, legal department.
14:24:48 That swath is not directly tied to the vacating.
14:24:51 A condition to the vacating is that any real estate

14:24:59 transaction, anything the city owns, needs to go
14:25:03 through the real estate department to be disposed of.
14:25:11 It's not complete.
14:25:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So Julie, put the map back up that
14:25:18 speaks to this.
14:25:21 Old 13th versus the new 13th?
14:25:26 >>> When we vacated the old portion in 1910, the owner
14:25:30 at the time deeded 39 feet for a new one-way section
14:25:33 of 13th street.
14:25:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All right.
14:25:37 >>> What petitioner is willing to do, that this part
14:25:41 of 13th has to stay open and remain as a roadway
14:25:44 like it does now through this section.
14:25:49 It will operate like it does now until we accept a new
14:25:52 --
14:25:52 >> Up to city standards?
14:25:53 >>> Yes.
14:25:54 Actually getting more than we have now.
14:25:56 We only have 39 feet now.
14:25:57 I believe we are getting 40 or more in the swap.
14:26:00 >> It didn't appear that this part of 13th is
14:26:03 brick, is it?

14:26:04 >>> No.
14:26:04 Pavement.
14:26:05 >> Vacated part is pavement?
14:26:07 >>> Pavement.
14:26:07 >> Is it anticipated to try to get brick out of the
14:26:10 new 13th?
14:26:13 No?
14:26:14 >>> It's not anticipated that's occurred.
14:26:16 Streets in that area are a variety of asphalt.
14:26:18 Most of them are asphalt.
14:26:24 Having a brick street is not contemplated.
14:26:26 It's pretty cost prohibitive to the petitioner for
14:26:29 this proposed use.
14:26:30 As it is right now it's been a fairly significant
14:26:34 financial undertaking to relocate the street to city
14:26:36 standards since we are having to provide six foot
14:26:38 sidewalks on either side.
14:26:39 Right now, the current road has no sidewalk, has no
14:26:43 curbs, and in some photos it's actually into and
14:26:50 underneath the petitioner's building as it sits right
14:26:53 now.
14:26:53 So it will be a situation -- right into the trolley.

14:26:59 As part of the original deeding. Trolley line,
14:27:03 right-of-way to the city, petitioner also has the
14:27:05 right to put a trolley stop in.
14:27:07 That's going to be incorporated into the design of the
14:27:09 hotel so we actually have a user with the trolley stop
14:27:13 in a hotel setting.
14:27:15 We think this is a fairly straightforward deal,
14:27:19 because the city is going to get back the road when we
14:27:21 build the road, give up a road that is substandard,
14:27:25 and if for some reason hotel deal does not come
14:27:28 together, nothing is going to change.
14:27:30 Road is going to still stay like it is, and everybody
14:27:32 is in their same position.
14:27:37 >>MARY MULHERN: I just had a quick question.
14:27:39 I might ask you to put your overhead back up, Mr.
14:27:42 Smith.
14:27:43 I just want to make sure, is the building that when
14:27:46 see next to way think is the current 13th street
14:27:50 in the photograph?
14:27:56 Is that petitioner's building?
14:27:58 >>> Yes, the warehouse?
14:27:59 It's not a contributing structure.

14:28:03 The AR ARC people at the city staff looked at it.
14:28:07 And it's not a contributing structure.
14:28:08 >> So that's going?
14:28:09 >>> Yes, ma'am.
14:28:10 That will be removed.
14:28:11 >> And right now, the old 13th street that you are
14:28:17 going to restore, that's vacant?
14:28:21 Is it vacant?
14:28:22 >>> Well, basically right now, where we are going to
14:28:25 put 13th right now is occupied by the warehouse.
14:28:27 >> Oh, the building is right over --
14:28:30 >>> Right.
14:28:30 Basically what's occurred is that when the vacation
14:28:32 occurred the Florida brewery back in 1910 basically
14:28:36 got the right to build across the entire property.
14:28:41 When my client came into ownership of the adjacent
14:28:43 site they were able to then split the property, to put
14:28:46 the trolley in, and it is very close to the old
14:28:49 13th street alignment.
14:28:51 >>
14:28:52 >> did the trolley used to go up 13th street then?
14:28:55 >>> The trolley couldn't go anywhere until this land

14:28:57 was provided to them by the petitioner originally.
14:29:03 That basically allowed the trolley to connect to its
14:29:05 current trolley yard by them providing this property.
14:29:08 >> And the barrio approved getting rid of the
14:29:14 building?
14:29:14 >>> Yes.
14:29:15 Barrio had no problem with it.
14:29:16 Everybody was on board at the barrio.
14:29:18 >> I think it's great you are restoring the grid.
14:29:21 It looks good.
14:29:26 Any other questions, I'll be happy to answer.
14:29:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public?
14:29:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
14:29:40 Second.
14:29:40 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
14:29:42 (Motion carried).
14:29:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Caetano?
14:29:45 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Number 93?
14:29:54 An ordinance vacating, closing, discontinuing,
14:29:57 abandoning a certain right-of-way, all that portion of
14:30:00 13th street, lying south of 6th Avenue, north
14:30:03 of 5th Avenue, and CSX right-of-way, and west of

14:30:10 AVENIDA Republica de Cuba and all that portion of
14:30:14 alleyway lying south of 6th Avenue, north of
14:30:17 5th Avenue and west. Proposed vacated 13th
14:30:21 street in Lesley's subdivision, a subdivision located
14:30:23 in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County, Florida the
14:30:27 same being described, more fully described in section
14:30:30 2 hereof providing an effective date.
14:30:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor let it known by Aye.
14:30:38 >>THE CLERK: Second reading of the ordinance will be
14:30:41 held June 5th at 9:30 a.m.
14:30:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 2:30 p.m.?
14:30:52 No, just kidding.
14:30:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item number 95.
14:30:57 94 was continued.
14:30:59 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:31:24 There are nine establishments on the list for the
14:31:28 December 2007 cycle for semiannual reports that either
14:31:33 have not paid the fee or filed late and have paid the
14:31:36 fee since the filing date.
14:31:39 That's Fushia Asian bistro, Lee Roy Selmon, polo's
14:31:45 Italian club, Casa, yeoman's, strings and rings, Beef
14:31:51 O'Brady's, 717, and we are recommending that Fushia

14:31:57 Amber Lee drive, Lee Roy Selmon at 4302 west Boy Scout
14:32:03 and polo's, Casa Mexicana bar and grill, 4115 east
14:32:09 Busch Boulevard, and beef oh braid Ys at 2817-19 South
14:32:18 MacDill, all be removed from the list.
14:32:21 They have paid and have not filed a majority of the
14:32:24 time late.
14:32:25 So those I would ask be removed.
14:32:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Based upon staff recommendation, I
14:32:30 would like to remove those -- how many were there,
14:32:34 five?
14:32:36 Fushia Asian bistro, remove, no suspension.
14:32:41 Lee Roy Selmon remove from the list, no suspension.
14:32:45 Casa Mexicana, removed from the list no, suspension.
14:32:51 Beef O'Brady's.
14:32:53 Removed from the list, no suspension.
14:32:55 Four of those.
14:32:56 Let's just get the easy ones out of the way first.
14:32:59 That's a motion.
14:32:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second?
14:33:02 >> Second.
14:33:03 (Motion carried).
14:33:05 >>CATHERINE COYLE: For those in the audience that

14:33:09 represent those five -- there are actually three to go
14:33:14 at this point.
14:33:15 Of the four that remain polo's Italian club, they did
14:33:19 pay the fee on March 14th.
14:33:21 We are recommending a 30-day suspension.
14:33:23 They have been late four out of the five times.
14:33:25 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
14:33:26 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chair, on the motion --
14:33:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do they get a hearing?
14:33:35 Is it due process?
14:33:40 >> Yes, they do.
14:33:41 [ Laughter ]
14:33:42 >>CATHY COYLE: I would ask them to come up and speak.
14:33:44 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: On the motion, Mr. Mr. Chairman,
14:33:48 polo's Italian club.
14:33:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Should we hear from them first if
14:33:53 they are here?
14:33:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if we can then open the
14:33:56 public hearing.
14:33:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to open the public item on all
14:33:59 of these.
14:34:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor let it be known by saying

14:34:03 Aye.
14:34:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And anybody that wishes to be sworn
14:34:08 on 95.
14:34:09 If anybody intends to speak on number 95, would you
14:34:11 please stand and raise your right hand and be sworn
14:34:14 in?
14:34:15 (Oath administered by Clerk).
14:34:28 >> My name is Lori polo from Italian grill.
14:34:33 I did file a day late.
14:34:34 I dropped it off, the last filing for January.
14:34:38 I dropped it off next door, January 30th, she
14:34:43 couldn't get it through.
14:34:44 But the office received it the following morning,
14:34:47 January 31st.
14:34:48 And all I can ask is leniency.
14:34:51 I paid my fine when I was asked to.
14:34:54 >> You paid the fine?
14:34:58 >>> I paid the fine right away when asked.
14:35:01 $500.
14:35:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Paid the 500 already?
14:35:04 >>> Yes.
14:35:06 >> Each time you paid $500?

14:35:09 >>> No, the last time she received it on time.
14:35:11 Time before that I paid $500.
14:35:13 This is the second time I paid $500.
14:35:17 And this one was received the morning after.
14:35:25 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I had a business
14:35:26 next door to polo's restaurant for 15 years, and I
14:35:31 presume all these people up in the front here are
14:35:34 small business people.
14:35:36 And believe me, the small business people are having a
14:35:38 hard time out there.
14:35:40 And by imposing a suspension of 30 days, some of these
14:35:45 places will probably close their doors.
14:35:48 I don't know the financial ramifications of any of
14:35:52 these people.
14:35:54 Everyone the young lady that was up there.
14:35:56 Like I say, she's my neighbor next door, where I had a
14:35:59 beauty salon for 15 years that I just sold in
14:36:02 November.
14:36:03 And I know I have eaten in there many times.
14:36:06 And I would like some leniency and not suspend for 30
14:36:09 days.
14:36:12 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.

14:36:12 I just want to take one of the options available to
14:36:15 City Council.
14:36:15 Each of these, each of the five, I believe, before you
14:36:21 are coming here, you would be finding a first-time
14:36:25 violation.
14:36:25 First step is you find a violation. If you find on
14:36:28 violation you do have the ability to suspend them from
14:36:30 zero days, nothing, up to 30 days.
14:36:33 And when you make that determination you are supposed
14:36:36 to consider the gravity of the violation, options
14:36:39 taken to correct the violation and any previous
14:36:41 violations.
14:36:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:36:45 What's your pleasure?
14:36:51 >> I'm --
14:36:57 Let's take up this one first.
14:37:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Could I ask Ms. Polo a question?
14:37:04 >> Yes.
14:37:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
14:37:05 Ma'am, I'm far from perfect especially when it comes
14:37:08 to bookkeeping, et cetera, et cetera.
14:37:10 But four out of five times late the last couple of

14:37:13 years, is there a problem?
14:37:16 Are we doing something wrong?
14:37:18 >>> No, I am, obviously.
14:37:23 $85 a week, I am not only the chef.
14:37:25 I am everything.
14:37:26 In the beginning I didn't realize.
14:37:27 And that's why I filed late.
14:37:29 Then I said, okay, I'll do that.
14:37:34 I did send it.
14:37:35 I sent her the one violation.
14:37:38 I sent her and showed her that, you know, oh, okay,
14:37:44 it's fine.
14:37:44 And then I was late the last time.
14:37:48 It's just a matter of, you know, prioritizing.
14:37:51 You know, you can giver me a warning.
14:37:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: As one person I am willing to go
14:37:56 with Mr. Caetano's suggestion.
14:37:58 >>> Thank you.
14:37:59 >> But hopefully we won't see you here again under
14:38:02 these circumstances.
14:38:02 >>> Believe me, I don't like this.
14:38:03 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I will keep after her.

14:38:07 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to ask you one question
14:38:11 and second Mr. Caetano's question.
14:38:12 Is this the first time you have had to come down here?
14:38:15 >>> No, it's the second time I have been here.
14:38:17 But when I got here they told me to go home.
14:38:19 >> But today was the first time?
14:38:21 >>> Yes.
14:38:22 >> So you probably aren't going to want to do this
14:38:26 again.
14:38:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You paid your $500.
14:38:34 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The motion is not to suspend.
14:38:37 >>GWEN MILLER: I withdraw my motion.
14:38:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That would be the motion, Joe?
14:38:46 >> Second.
14:38:46 (Motion carried).
14:38:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next.
14:38:52 >>JULIA COLE: Next is Yeoman's road at 236-A East
14:38:57 Davis Boulevard.
14:38:58 Report was filed 2-4-08.
14:39:01 This is the third time out of the last five.
14:39:04 Fee was not paid as of May 13th so there is still
14:39:07 a fee owed according to our record.

14:39:09 So we are recommending a 30-day suspension and payment
14:39:12 of the fee.
14:39:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is anyone here?
14:39:17 Yeoman's road?
14:39:18 >> Our concern, the three other ones, we get behind.
14:39:26 We are a small business.
14:39:30 But my records indicate that I sent it on 1-25-08.
14:39:35 Excuse me, I'm hoarse.
14:39:37 And as far as paying the fee, I paid the fee, and I
14:39:42 apologize.
14:39:42 I think I'm up on board.
14:39:45 I have been in business for four years, and just got
14:39:48 all taxes paid and everything up to date.
14:39:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question.
14:39:53 Cathy, this is as of two days ago the fee is not paid?
14:39:58 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That's correct.
14:39:58 >> Richard?
14:40:02 >>> I just knew that I had to come here and my records
14:40:06 show I was in on time by notarizing --
14:40:10 >> The $500 penalty, is that correct?
14:40:12 >>> That's correct.
14:40:13 >>> I guess I got to pay.

14:40:18 How do you learn?
14:40:19 >> If it's $500, I guess that would be a good lesson.
14:40:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Contingent upon him paying the $500
14:40:34 fee I'll move that we remove him from the list.
14:40:37 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second.
14:40:39 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Would you like a report back next
14:40:42 week?
14:40:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My motion is contingent.
14:40:45 If he pays it we'll remove him from the list.
14:40:53 >>> This is a noticed public hearing.
14:40:55 So if he doesn't pay, then we have to renotice again
14:40:58 to pay it back.
14:40:58 So if there's a way to -- to have a report in two
14:41:02 weeks about whether or not he paid.
14:41:07 As part of your motion could you also say if the fine
14:41:10 has been paid at that point you will remove it.
14:41:12 That way the gentleman won't have to come back if he's
14:41:14 paid.
14:41:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That would be my motion.
14:41:16 >>> That would be nice.
14:41:18 Thank you.
14:41:21 (Motion carried)

14:41:24 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Strings and rings, 223 South Howard
14:41:26 Avenue.
14:41:27 We are recommending a 30-day suspension.
14:41:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think they went out of business.
14:41:32 >> Not because of the number of times late but because
14:41:33 they have not paid the fee. The report came in on the
14:41:34 31st of January.
14:41:39 >> They closed their doors.
14:41:41 I'd be surprised if they are here.
14:41:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Strings and Rings?
14:41:47 Strings and Rings?
14:41:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just to formalize it, I'll move to
14:41:51 suspend for 30 days.
14:41:57 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Wet zoning runs with the property,
14:41:59 remember, not the user.
14:42:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor let it be known by Aye.
14:42:05 Opposes?
14:42:05 So moved.
14:42:06 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The last one is 717 South Howard.
14:42:10 The report came in on the 4th of February.
14:42:12 Fee was paid March 4th.
14:42:14 We are recommending the 30-day suspension because they

14:42:16 have been late four out of five times.
14:42:18 But it's similar to the previous cases.
14:42:24 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I'm here on behalf of Michael
14:42:26 Stewart and 717.
14:42:28 Basically, in the past, the managers have been
14:42:31 responsible for coordinating the filing of the
14:42:33 alcoholic beverage reports.
14:42:36 And they were supposed to be working with the
14:42:38 accountants to do that.
14:42:39 The accountant has been replaced and the managers have
14:42:42 now turned that responsibility over to the owner.
14:42:45 So the owner is here to speak to that specifically.
14:42:48 But as you know, again, it's a small business, and
14:42:51 certainly we appreciate your discretion and not
14:42:53 suspending their license for 30 days.
14:42:56 The account was also -- the new accountant is here as
14:43:00 well.
14:43:00 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Are the fines paid?
14:43:02 All paid up.
14:43:04 Okay. state your name for the record.
14:43:09 >>> Michael Stewart.
14:43:10 I'm the owner.

14:43:12 717 South Howard.
14:43:13 >>GWEN MILLER: I move to remove it from the list.
14:43:17 >> Second.
14:43:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Kind of feels like a principal's
14:43:21 office, doesn't it?
14:43:22 >>> Yes.
14:43:22 You won't see me again.
14:43:23 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor let it be known by Aye.
14:43:26 Opposes?
14:43:27 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Thank you very much, council.
14:43:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: There is a letter I on this list.
14:43:31 I believe that's not -- I have been informed by Ms.
14:43:36 Coyle --
14:43:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: EL-PASAJE?
14:43:43 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Actually it didn't make it onto my
14:43:45 list.
14:43:47 It might be a transmittal.
14:43:50 It must have been a mistransmittal.
14:43:53 I would ask to have it removed at this point.
14:43:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 96.
14:44:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open.
14:44:02 >> Second.

14:44:03 (Motion carried).
14:44:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, do you want to swear in
14:44:10 the witnesses for the remainder of today's hearings?
14:44:13 >> Yes.
14:44:13 If you are here and want to speak to any of the other
14:44:16 public hearings, all the way down to item 109, would
14:44:28 you please stand?
14:44:28 Raise your right hand.
14:44:37 (Oath administered by Clerk)
14:44:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 96.
14:44:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Staff report.
14:45:00 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
14:45:03 The member who usually presents a report is out sick
14:45:06 today. You do have all the information in your
14:45:07 backup.
14:45:08 If you want to go ahead and approve this.
14:45:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public to address
14:45:17 council on item 96?
14:45:19 >> Move to close.
14:45:22 (Motion carried).
14:45:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Based on the information in our
14:45:28 packet I move the ordinance for first reading.

14:45:30 An ordinance approving a historic preservation
14:45:33 property tax exemption application relative to the
14:45:35 restoration, renovation or rehabilitation of certain
14:45:38 property owned by Nick J. Alexander and mark A.
14:45:41 Reynolds, located at 2105 west hills Avenue, Tampa,
14:45:45 Florida in the Hyde Park historic district, based on
14:45:48 certain findings, providing for notice to the property
14:45:51 appraiser of Hillsborough County, providing for
14:45:53 severability, providing for repeal all ordinances in
14:45:56 conflict, providing an effective date.
14:45:57 >> Second.
14:45:58 (Motion carried).
14:45:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open number 97.
14:46:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second reading on that?
14:46:04 Clerk, is this a second reading?
14:46:06 >>THE CLERK: Second reading of the ordinance will be
14:46:08 held June 5th at 9:30 a.m.
14:46:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do I hear a second for opening the
14:46:15 public hearing?
14:46:18 >> So moved.
14:46:19 >> Second.
14:46:19 (Motion carried).

14:46:19 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:46:22 Case WZ 08-79, for foodtown meat market, Inc., 4941
14:46:30 east Busch Boulevard, suite 210, requesting a 2(APS)
14:46:34 with the meat market, there is a 7-Eleven and shell
14:46:39 food mart within a thousand feet, PD zoning for
14:46:41 residential within 570 feet and no institutional uses
14:46:44 within 1,000 feet.
14:46:50 This is the location of -- just a reference for those
14:46:57 of you in the area, the old Scotty's and big lots
14:47:00 across the street.
14:47:04 The 7-Eleven at 50th and Busch.
14:47:10 That's the 7-Eleven.
14:47:20 This sits behind.
14:47:21 The old Scotty's was here.
14:47:25 Staff has no objections to the request.
14:47:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer Miller.
14:47:31 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
14:47:35 department.
14:47:35 City of Tampa police department has in a objection to
14:47:37 this wet zoning.
14:47:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
14:47:43 >> Steven WATTS, 1446 court street, represent -- and I

14:47:51 have been sworn -- and I represent the owner of the
14:47:54 foodtown meat market and he start add neighborhood
14:47:57 grocery store and that's truly what it is.
14:47:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right, sir.
14:48:02 Anyone here in opposition to this petition?
14:48:05 Anyone here in opposition?
14:48:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
14:48:07 >> Second.
14:48:08 (Motion carried).
14:48:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Very persuasive, Mr. WATT.
14:48:23 >>GWEN MILLER: An ordinance for alcoholic rezoning
14:48:30 regardless of alcoholic content beer and wine 2(APS)
14:48:34 in sealed containers for consumption off premises only
14:48:37 at or from that certain lot, plot or tract of land
14:48:39 located at 4941 east Busch Boulevard, suite 210,
14:48:44 Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in
14:48:46 section 2 hereof, wavering certain restrictions based
14:48:51 upon certain findings providing for repeal of all
14:48:53 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
14:48:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
14:48:59 (Motion carried).
14:49:00 >>THE CLERK: The second reading of the ordinance will

14:49:04 be held June 5th at 9:30 a.m.
14:49:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 98 has been continued.
14:49:09 Item 99 has been removed.
14:49:13 We are now on item 100.
14:49:19 >>CATHERINE COYLE: May I ask what date was given to
14:49:22 98?
14:49:22 I didn't catch that when it occurred.
14:49:24 June 5th?
14:49:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: First reading.
14:49:30 June... the first meeting or the third meeting in
14:49:44 June.
14:49:46 >>CATHERINE COYLE: June 5th at 1:30.
14:49:48 Thank you.
14:49:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Now we are on number 100.
14:49:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
14:49:53 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Kathryn --
14:49:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second?
14:50:00 >> Second.
14:50:01 (Motion carried).
14:50:01 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Number 100, WZ 08-82, 3924 West
14:50:11 Spruce Street, 2(COP), for ability for offpremises
14:50:17 consumption. This is a request for wet zoning.

14:50:18 There's an incidental use for microbrewery and
14:50:21 distribution for warehouse storage located at such
14:50:24 location.
14:50:24 The couples of alcohol will be limited only to tasting
14:50:29 of the alcohol brewed.
14:50:30 The area to be wet zoned includes 6,616 square feet.
14:50:35 A total of 50 seats located inside.
14:50:40 The sale of alcohol will be incidental.
14:50:42 There is a BP gas station within a thousand feet.
14:50:45 RS-50 residential property within 1,000 feet.
14:50:48 And two institutional uses within a thousand feet.
14:50:51 The staff report notes that there are no objections to
14:50:53 the request.
14:50:56 Just for reference, this is a Home Depot at the corner
14:51:00 of Spruce and Dale Mabry.
14:51:05 The building in the rear.
14:51:11 The site to be wet zoned.
14:51:22 This is to the west.
14:51:28 These are the homes.
14:51:30 And the restaurant.
14:51:32 This is the area to be wet zoned within the warehouse
14:51:35 facility.

14:51:36 Thank you.
14:51:43 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
14:51:45 department.
14:51:45 We have in a objection to this wet zoning.
14:51:49 >>CATHERINE COYLE: If I may, I forgot to mention I did
14:51:52 pass out a letter, I think a support letter and I have
14:51:56 placed it in the file as well.
14:51:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
14:51:59 >> Joe Redner, 1310 Alicia.
14:52:05 This is my son Joey.
14:52:07 110 North Boulevard.
14:52:09 And good afternoon; Mr. Chairman and persons of the
14:52:16 City Council.
14:52:18 I would like to give you an overview of the property.
14:52:28 I think I meant to put it this way.
14:52:31 This is the property.
14:52:53 This is Spruce.
14:52:54 And then Home Depot is out to this side.
14:52:58 Over here is target.
14:53:02 To the west is the waste management complex for the
14:53:05 City of Tampa.
14:53:09 There's three different buildings on this property.

14:53:12 This is the part of the property closest to Spruce
14:53:14 Street.
14:53:18 Here we have production services and systems, most
14:53:24 recently what we have done, the wheel of fortune over
14:53:32 there at Sea World about a week and a half ago, and
14:53:35 jeopardy also at Sea World about a -- all of the
14:53:44 public commercial.
14:53:45 Next to that, I had this building vacant for a long
14:53:49 time and just renovated the building and cleaned it
14:53:52 out.
14:53:53 I have it store storage.
14:53:54 We are putting a boxing gym in there.
14:53:57 And this gym is going to be also open to the kids of
14:54:02 Lincoln Gardens and Carver City to come and train and
14:54:05 it will be for free for the kids in that area.
14:54:07 And if we don't have a whole bunch of coms kids come
14:54:10 in it will be extended out to as many kids as we can
14:54:13 handle.
14:54:15 At my gym, extreme, we have had an amateur fight here
14:54:19 that was us successful, about four weeks ago, and we
14:54:24 had a bunch of amateur kids, from eight years old,
14:54:27 some come over there and box and it turned out very

14:54:30 well.
14:54:31 Those events there also.
14:54:34 There's vacant space in there.
14:54:35 Next to that is my warehouse where we had the trucks
14:54:40 there, and a shop where we do work from my property,
14:54:44 some property that I have, and we maintain that
14:54:46 property and we use that as the focal point.
14:54:49 Next to that is my offices, which I have about eight
14:54:55 to ten people that work in the offices.
14:54:57 Next to that would be the microbrewery.
14:55:01 Now, the microbrewery is -- it meets the zoning
14:55:09 restrictions.
14:55:10 I am not here asking for that zoning.
14:55:12 It is zoned 4.
14:55:14 It is a permitted use without coming to the City
14:55:16 Council.
14:55:17 What we are asking for, in conjunction as an
14:55:20 incidental use, we want to put -- have tastings, tours
14:55:24 of the brewery, we want to have tastings there which
14:55:28 will be 3 to 4-ounces of the tasting to give to the
14:55:31 people.
14:55:32 We also want, if they do that and want to buy

14:55:35 something, we would like for them to go, not to drink
14:55:38 there, but to go, to go ahead and be able to let them
14:55:43 about buy the package goods and take it with them.
14:55:46 I brought a sample of the type of beer that we are
14:55:55 going to be brewing there.
14:55:58 It's very high end draft beer.
14:56:01 It will not be there for consumption on the premises
14:56:03 except for one thing, and that is we intend to have
14:56:08 dinners, we like to have dinners there on Friday
14:56:12 nights, around 6:00, for about 50 people like they do
14:56:19 at the bistro, I think you gist gave them a wet zoning
14:56:23 not too long ago and they have been holding things
14:56:25 over there for awhile.
14:56:31 You have a dinner and you serve a complementary beer,
14:56:35 three ounces or four ounces of beer with each course
14:56:38 that goes with it just like wine does.
14:56:41 Now, at the winery, they have these dinners, but they
14:56:45 don't have to come to the City Council and get the
14:56:48 okay.
14:56:49 They are zoned for it.
14:56:50 You have the CI or the industrial and then you can go
14:56:52 ahead and do it.

14:56:53 For beer you have to come in front of the City
14:56:55 Council.
14:57:01 We will not be selling beer out of there. We will be
14:57:04 packaging it, brewing it.
14:57:05 We will not be selling it except to the people that
14:57:07 come on the tours or maybe some of the people for the
14:57:09 dinner to take home with them.
14:57:13 And our distributor is going to be J.J. Taylor.
14:57:18 And they will come pick up.
14:57:22 The way the businesses that are there now, they
14:57:25 generate about 10 to 15 truck trips a day, the
14:57:31 lighting company, maintenance crews and things like
14:57:33 that.
14:57:33 This business will generate about four truck trips a
14:57:36 month.
14:57:37 That's all it's going to generate.
14:57:42 We met with the neighborhood association.
14:57:43 They did tell us some of their concerns, and with
14:57:47 traffic.
14:57:48 They had a concern of traffic, and as I said, it would
14:57:51 be Friday night.
14:57:52 You might have 25 cars on a Friday night, and four

14:57:56 truck trips a month for this business.
14:58:00 Smell.
14:58:01 I don't know if you have been in any of the
14:58:03 microbreweries restaurants like the one at hop's or
14:58:09 the one down in Ybor City, they don't have smell.
14:58:11 There's in a smell.
14:58:12 We do have a smoke stack that will go to the top of
14:58:15 the building which meets federal guidelines.
14:58:18 It's about three foot over the top.
14:58:20 So if there is any smell, which if you put your head
14:58:23 over oatmeal while it's cooking on your stove, that
14:58:27 would be the smell but it dissipates within three or
14:58:30 four foot of the smoke stack.
14:58:38 Drugs, they are worried about drugs. I don't see any
14:58:39 problem.
14:58:40 People will not be cominig in and sitting down and
14:58:41 ordering a beer and sitting down at a bar.
14:58:43 It's not going to happen.
14:58:44 And if that is a concern of anybody we will put
14:58:47 conditions on ourselves to take care of that problem.
14:58:50 And also worry about zoning in perpetuity, that the
14:58:55 zoning would go on forever.

14:58:57 Well, if you don't operate for 30 days, you lose your
14:59:00 wet zoning, number one, and I don't think anybody but
14:59:03 a brewery would want to do this -- have this zoning
14:59:07 with these conditions on there.
14:59:08 I just don't think anybody would.
14:59:10 We are asking for a 2(COP).
14:59:17 Let's see, we are negotiating right now with whole
14:59:19 foods, which is wild oats, to bring their signature
14:59:23 beer.
14:59:23 They have contacted us.
14:59:25 Joey writes for TBT, the beer -- you might have seen
14:59:31 last Friday I think the ten worst beers.
14:59:35 This is a subsidiary of the St. Pete Times.
14:59:38 He's been writing for them for four years.
14:59:40 We have some samples of his writings.
14:59:43 Five course dinners.
14:59:48 That's about all I have, unless you have some
14:59:51 questions.
14:59:53 Joey knows what kind of beer he's going to be brewing.
14:59:57 The reporter asked and I couldn't remember all of them
15:00:00 anyway.
15:00:06 >>> Specifically would you like me to -- well, we are

15:00:10 going to be brewing what we call mama guava week.
15:00:17 We are going to have a recipe that existed before
15:00:19 prohibition.
15:00:20 We are going to be doing what we call the human adore
15:00:22 series.
15:00:23 These are different beers, Belgian ails, stout itself,
15:00:27 it will be aged on cedar, cigar box said area.
15:00:30 And we'll do seasonals.
15:00:33 We have plans to do a plantain beer, a tropical exotic
15:00:39 fruits.
15:00:40 In the industry, if you go to Wisconsin, they will
15:00:43 brew with cherries.
15:00:44 If you go up to one of them, they'll brew with one of
15:00:46 the local -- we want to be Tampa centered, very native
15:00:52 and to mirror the community, and the Cuban food.
15:00:54 When you buy a bottle of our beer we will give a
15:00:56 suggested Cuban food pairing, will give a suggested
15:01:00 cigar pairing, and, you know, that's the basic focus
15:01:03 of what we want.
15:01:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How many people will you employ?
15:01:07 >>> Now just two, but we are not up and running.
15:01:11 I'm imagining five within the first year, up to eight

15:01:16 two years out.
15:01:17 It really depends on the response and the growth that
15:01:19 we have.
15:01:23 And I have got a letter also from the beer bottler for
15:01:27 J.J. Taylor in support with us as well.
15:01:30 >>GWEN MILLER: You say you are going to have dinners.
15:01:32 Are you going to have a kitchen?
15:01:34 >>> No, it will be catered.
15:01:36 The food will be brought in.
15:01:38 We won't have a kitchen facility.
15:01:41 We will probably get with the lady that ran the
15:01:43 bistro, hosted beer dinners at their place many times
15:01:46 and I'll probably get them to indicate fer they are
15:01:48 able to.
15:01:49 They keep very busy.
15:01:50 They probably won't be able to do every one that we
15:01:53 want to.
15:02:00 Joe Redner: He's on-site now and that's the other one
15:02:04 that he was talking about.
15:02:06 >>> He's a multi-gold medal winner.
15:02:09 He's won the gold medal at the great American beer
15:02:12 festival which is the most prestigious beer festival

15:02:14 in America.
15:02:15 The company that he just left in Winston Salem just
15:02:20 won a gold and silver at the world beer festival, the
15:02:24 world beer festival, and previously won a gold for a
15:02:28 Porter that he did in 2007.
15:02:31 So he's extremely skilled brewer.
15:02:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Good afternoon.
15:02:41 I'm familiar with the building.
15:02:44 My stepfather up the street there at the senior center
15:02:47 periodically.
15:02:51 And it's a wonderful facility.
15:02:52 But my question is, along Spruce there, where the
15:02:56 parking lot is, is there any buffer along there?
15:03:12 It says existing drive on Spruce.
15:03:15 >> On the Spruce Street?
15:03:18 >> The Spruce side.
15:03:37 >> There's a median here, and a U-turn -- that
15:03:41 half-circle drive right here and then the sidewalk is
15:03:43 here, and I don't know if it's a concrete buffer.
15:03:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If you keep going to the west --
15:03:53 no, no, no.
15:03:54 Keep going to the west.

15:03:55 After the existing drive, okay, there's another 20, 30
15:04:01 feet that's not part of the driveway, sort of the
15:04:10 parking area.
15:04:10 What I'm wondering, is there any buffer there
15:04:12 existing? And I think the answer is probably no.
15:04:15 Is it possible you might consider a little bit of
15:04:18 buffer along there?
15:04:19 Because I would say that's sort of the only exposed
15:04:23 area.
15:04:25 Well, your parking lot is sort of exposed to the
15:04:27 neighborhood across the street.
15:04:31 >>> That's across Grady street.
15:04:34 Waste management is across Grady street.
15:04:36 There's a 20-foot ditch.
15:04:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm talking about that little
15:04:40 section right in there.
15:04:44 >>> Maybe 18, 20 feet.
15:04:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is it possible to build a little
15:04:48 buffer wall there or both landscaping and a little
15:04:51 buffer wall there?
15:04:52 >>> There's landscaping.
15:04:53 We'll put a buffer wall there.

15:04:55 How high would you like it?
15:04:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We'll get to it.
15:04:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there anyone from the public in
15:05:03 opposition to wants to address this issue, in
15:05:06 opposition?
15:05:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: As they are coming up, my point is
15:05:18 if there's noise or something from the parking lot we
15:05:20 want to create as much buffer as possible.
15:05:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You will have rebuttal.
15:05:32 You have three minutes.
15:05:32 >> Morris Harvey, 3913 west Palmetto street and I'm
15:05:37 opposed to it.
15:05:38 And I would like for the council not to waive the
15:05:44 1,000 feet residential property requirement or
15:05:46 industrial use.
15:05:49 On the map that I have here, the concern is on the
15:05:52 issue, safety, infrastructure, and this is an overview
15:05:58 of Carver City, and basically this is Dale Mabry on
15:06:03 this end.
15:06:05 The interstate on the south end.
15:06:23 That's the Redner enterprises right there.
15:06:26 Mr. Redner is a good neighbor, has been very

15:06:28 successful in business, and this that would probably
15:06:30 be a good reason to oppose this because this is a very
15:06:32 limited access corner.
15:06:33 We have had problems with the corners.
15:06:36 The area that you were just discussing.
15:06:42 It's basically a problem throughout the planning and
15:06:44 development going on now.
15:06:48 This is Grady street.
15:06:50 This is the area where we are talking about the
15:06:53 buffer.
15:06:53 There's only two drives here.
15:06:57 Somewhere around here is also bus stop.
15:07:05 Before 5:00 all of this area is congested.
15:07:07 The residents within this side and that live within
15:07:10 the Lincoln Gardens area have problems going into the
15:07:12 area because of the congestion and the traffic.
15:07:17 Basically on the north and west side there's open
15:07:26 ditches.
15:07:27 The open ditches, a buffer on the city side, and
15:07:30 basically throws one on the north side.
15:07:32 There is no buffer for the residents.
15:07:36 On the north side.

15:07:38 The only access to this area is right along here.
15:07:41 There's a driveway here.
15:07:42 And there's a driveway here.
15:07:45 He's talking about 50 people.
15:07:47 That's a lot of people in a small area in an already
15:07:51 congested area.
15:07:53 One of our issues, it will show a little better on
15:07:58 here, with that residential access point.
15:08:04 If you go here anytime between 3:30, 5:00, the traffic
15:08:08 is backed up from Dale Mabry past the street.
15:08:18 I know Mr. Redner has been very successful in his
15:08:21 businesses, because this is already a congested area
15:08:23 because of all the development that is going on
15:08:26 presently in the area.
15:08:28 The other issue, the issue of the license, is that at
15:08:34 the present, he talks about the Home Depot, and the
15:08:48 conditions when Home Depot was built.
15:08:50 There was a buffer wall along here.
15:08:56 It goes around.
15:08:58 There's an open ditch here that buffers the road.
15:09:00 There are no sidewalks.
15:09:01 And any children that come home from school, they have

15:09:05 to walk on that side.
15:09:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
15:09:26 >> I'm Wilson Robinson Jr., 4221 west Arch Street,
15:09:32 Tampa 33607.
15:09:34 I'm president of the Carver City Lincoln Gardens civic
15:09:38 and homeowners association.
15:09:40 And we strongly oppose the wet zone petition.
15:09:47 If we were talking about everywhere is a commercial
15:09:54 area, but it's not.
15:09:56 It's right in our front door.
15:09:57 We have senior whose live in that area, we have youth,
15:10:03 and we are very concerned about their safety.
15:10:05 We don't feel that this petition or wet zoning will
15:10:09 bring peace and harmony.
15:10:14 We don't think it would enhance our quality of -- our
15:10:19 quality of life.
15:10:19 We strongly oppose this.
15:10:22 Infrastructure, we know that the road, which is
15:10:26 parallel to this establishment, is very dangerous even
15:10:28 now.
15:10:30 As a deep ditch, I would say three fourths block
15:10:39 lopping.

15:10:39 There's a rail.
15:10:40 When the children get off the bus and walk from Spruce
15:10:42 Street about a block long, very risky.
15:10:50 If two cars are meeting each other an accident could
15:10:52 happen because the children have nowhere to walk. In
15:10:54 fact I rode down the street last night.
15:10:57 It's very dangerous.
15:10:58 There's no protection.
15:10:59 There's no safety for our children.
15:11:01 We are very much concerned that this would diminish
15:11:05 our quality of life in our community.
15:11:11 We have two neighbors, Carver City and Lincoln Gardens
15:11:14 and it makes a total community.
15:11:15 We all have one vision, that we all enjoy the quality
15:11:21 of life.
15:11:32 I want him to realize that the people in this
15:11:34 community also have a dream that we can enjoy the
15:11:36 fruits of our labor.
15:11:37 And I ask City Council to consider this.
15:11:40 Next, we have the infrastructure as was stated
15:11:43 earlier.
15:11:45 That's an additional stress on our lift station, our

15:11:49 sewer line.
15:11:50 If you come in that area anytime in the day there's a
15:11:54 tremendous odor there and it's toxic.
15:11:56 We certainly know this is going to increase in
15:11:59 population.
15:12:00 I don't think that this sewer system can accommodate
15:12:02 the stress that's going to be added with the
15:12:05 additional people that's coming into the community.
15:12:09 As we stated earlier, Mr. Redner is the gentle.
15:12:12 I talked with him on many occasions.
15:12:14 We are concerned about our neighborhood.
15:12:16 We want to be able to continue to live in harmony and
15:12:22 to -- continue to be a good citizen and taxpayers.
15:12:28 So I ask that you consider this.
15:12:29 We strongly oppose this wet zone petition.
15:12:33 Thank you very much.
15:12:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
15:12:41 >>> My name is pastor Anthony green, pastor First
15:12:44 Baptist Church Lincoln Gardens.
15:12:45 I don't have much to add outside of what's already
15:12:48 been said by the others.
15:12:50 I just want to say that we have been in that community

15:12:54 for at least 50 years, and all of us enjoy going into
15:12:58 a community that we are proud of, that we go home, we
15:13:03 want to feel like we are going home.
15:13:05 We like our nice manicured lawns and nice tree-lined
15:13:10 entryways, and the people of Lincoln Gardens Carver
15:13:12 City, they want to be proud of their neighborhood.
15:13:15 What they are petitioning for is very close in
15:13:18 proximity to the residents there.
15:13:21 I think there's enough challenges that they have right
15:13:25 now to get into their community.
15:13:27 I work there every day and I know the challenges of
15:13:29 the traffic flow, and some of the problems inherent in
15:13:32 that community.
15:13:33 So we are not in support of it, don't see any value
15:13:35 added to the residents of that community.
15:13:38 >> Eric Armstrong, president of the Lincoln Carver
15:13:51 City homeowners association, also want to make
15:13:53 reference when did have other members of the community
15:13:55 here, because of the meeting was scheduled at 10:00
15:13:58 but they had to leave due to prior engagements and
15:14:01 time constraints.
15:14:02 We are opposed to this.

15:14:04 Mr. Redner has done things to maybe try and work with
15:14:08 the neighborhood.
15:14:10 We are opposed to anything that is going to effect
15:14:13 open our neighborhood and on our families.
15:14:16 The infrastructure will be traffic coming up and down
15:14:19 those streets.
15:14:19 It's hard for people to get in and out of that
15:14:21 community.
15:14:23 The open ditches are 10 to 15 feet deep on each side
15:14:28 that they are talking about. The street, they are
15:14:31 talking about a sidewalk that went to know where.
15:14:34 Well, it goes to the rail, the rail which is about two
15:14:37 feet away from the actual highway.
15:14:39 And on the other side you have a ditch which is
15:14:41 another maybe foot and a half from the highway so
15:14:44 there's nowhere for anybody to go through that area.
15:14:46 Like I said, we are opposed to it.
15:14:48 And we ask that this petition not be approved.
15:14:51 Thank you.
15:14:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
15:14:54 Anyone in support?
15:14:57 Anyone in support?

15:14:58 Okay, Mr. Redner?
15:14:59 >>> Joe Redner: Can I get back on this?
15:15:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's still on.
15:15:12 >> I bought this property about, oh, five years ago,
15:15:15 and came to the city so I could get my permitting to
15:15:17 get all this done.
15:15:21 There is a ditch here, I would say 10, 15, 20-foot
15:15:24 deep now.
15:15:26 I offered the city to fill it in at my expense because
15:15:30 I saw this coming, if they would let me put a driveway
15:15:37 on Spruce that runs into -- or close to Lincoln
15:15:42 Gardens because I knew the driveway should go out onto
15:15:47 Grady.
15:15:48 It was going to cost me at that time $75,000 to put
15:15:53 the big culverts in there.
15:15:55 I had people come and check it, gave me a price.
15:15:58 All I wanted was a driveway onto Grady where right
15:16:02 across the street is waste management.
15:16:07 About two years ago, the mayor had a town hall meeting
15:16:11 at Jefferson high school.
15:16:12 I went to that meeting.
15:16:14 I got up there and I said they had just put a rail in

15:16:17 on the other side of that ditch because it's so close
15:16:20 to the road, and people could drive in the ditch.
15:16:23 I complained because there was -- across the street is
15:16:27 another ditch.
15:16:28 Kids on bicycles.
15:16:29 It's an accident waiting to happen.
15:16:30 Has nothing to do with me.
15:16:33 It is what it is.
15:16:35 I said, they need to fix that.
15:16:37 Nothing has been done about that.
15:16:44 The traffic that's going to come from this business is
15:16:48 not going to go on to Grady and push those people --
15:16:54 push anybody walking or riding a bicycle out onto the
15:16:58 road, or push them into a ditch.
15:17:05 The action is onto Spruce Street.
15:17:10 If they let me to do what I wanted to do, and I have
15:17:13 no idea why they didn't, and I cussed and screamed
15:17:15 about it but they wouldn't let me do it anyway --
15:17:18 there would be a sidewalk there right now, where kids
15:17:21 could walk on it.
15:17:22 I think it's something that needs to be taken care of
15:17:26 and be taken care of right away.

15:17:32 As far as the buffer goes, there, we have been parking
15:17:36 cars there, and truck trips out onto Spruce Street
15:17:42 without a complaint for five years.
15:17:46 Lincoln Gardens has never made a complaint, not to me
15:17:50 or anybody else.
15:17:51 We try to be good neighbors.
15:17:55 Had they made a complaint to me about something going
15:17:57 on, I would have.
15:17:59 We have now traffic trips going out onto Spruce that
15:18:04 are way, way more than what this business is going to
15:18:07 bring.
15:18:08 It's only going to bring 25 cars possibly on a Friday
15:18:11 night.
15:18:12 That's it.
15:18:14 And three truck trips.
15:18:16 How it would contribute any more than those major
15:18:19 right down the street on Lois and Spruce, I think the
15:18:23 city has okayed an apartment complex there.
15:18:25 I'm not positive about that.
15:18:26 But they are going to generate 100 times more car
15:18:30 trips than what we have there.
15:18:34 It is the nature of where it is.

15:18:36 We are zoned CI, commercial intensive.
15:18:39 It is the nature of what it is.
15:18:42 Without coming to the City Council, I could put a
15:18:47 heliport there.
15:18:49 I have it right here.
15:18:50 It not something I would consider doing, but I'm just
15:18:52 saying, there are so many more obnoxious, way more
15:18:56 obnoxious uses that can go there that would be dealt
15:19:01 with administratively, and they meet the criteria.
15:19:04 So I think this is probably one of the least most
15:19:08 obnoxious uses that could fulfill that -- fill that
15:19:13 space.
15:19:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Could I ask Joe Jr. a question?
15:19:28 It sound like you are going to be running this place.
15:19:30 >>> Yes.
15:19:34 >> What type of hours do you typically operate?
15:19:37 I know the microbrewery is operating constantly but in
15:19:41 terms of people coming and going for these small --
15:19:44 >>> We are actually not going to be operating
15:19:45 constantly because we are only going to have one head
15:19:48 brewer.
15:19:48 And we have kind of envisioned 12 to 1 p.m. to 7 p.m.

15:19:52 start.
15:19:53 So we wouldn't contribute to really any morning rush
15:19:56 traffic because we are not even getting into the
15:19:58 office till 12 or 1:00 and then we are not
15:20:00 contributing to any 5:00 traffic as far as our
15:20:02 employees because we are not leaving till seven.
15:20:05 >> One or two or three employees.
15:20:09 I'm talking about if you have the small parties that
15:20:11 you are talking about, what are the hours for that?
15:20:15 >> About 6:00 to 7:00 would be the start time.
15:20:18 >> Until what?
15:20:21 >> They would go two and a half hours, sometimes as
15:20:23 much as three.
15:20:24 But like I said we are willing to place any
15:20:26 restrictions, if they don't want us to do it, though,
15:20:30 as late as ten, we'll do it six to nine.
15:20:33 >> That's what I'm figuring.
15:20:35 Because a lot of the objections I heard related to the
15:20:38 traffic congestion during the typical rush hours, it
15:20:42 is a busy area.
15:20:44 We are all familiar with.
15:20:45 If you are contemplating your business, you know, with

15:20:51 the customers, you know, and that's what you are here
15:20:53 about, you could run the brewery without being here at
15:20:56 all.
15:20:56 >>> Correct.
15:20:57 >> Just like an industrial use.
15:20:58 But you are looking for the wet zoning.
15:21:02 So six to ten as a constraint or something like that.
15:21:07 >>> I would have no problem with that and we are only
15:21:09 asking to do this four times a month.
15:21:11 No more.
15:21:12 And it's a marketing tool.
15:21:13 It givers us an ability to explain, now, the beers and
15:21:16 present them with food and show people, you know, that
15:21:19 beer can be, you know -- I don't want to run a bar.
15:21:26 I want a brewery but it's a marketing tool for us and
15:21:29 we can bring people from whole foods and come do a
15:21:33 catered dinner and show how we can take people from
15:21:36 J.J. Taylor.
15:21:38 >> And I'm not sure -- we often impose hours of
15:21:43 operation as a constraint, if you are willing to do
15:21:47 it.
15:21:47 I don't know, I can't remember number of times per

15:21:50 month is a little unusual, but we can defer to legal
15:21:54 on that.
15:21:56 I don't know if I am the only one who is interested in
15:22:00 that little buffer area.
15:22:01 Let me clarify.
15:22:02 You have no access whatsoever from your parking lot to
15:22:05 Grady.
15:22:06 >>> We would have to go onto Spruce and then turn onto
15:22:09 Grady.
15:22:10 >> Because I don't want there to be any confusion.
15:22:14 It's a little confusing on this map.
15:22:18 If that's what you are saying, I'm sure that's true.
15:22:28 Then the other issue is sewage.
15:22:32 Will you be putting a lot of additional water or yeast
15:22:34 or whatever down into the sewer system?
15:22:37 >>> The water is recycled in a brewery.
15:22:39 We have what is called cold and hot tanks and the
15:22:43 water runs through heat exchanger and back into the
15:22:45 tank so you recycle of the of the water.
15:22:48 The only water we will have is what we use to clean
15:22:52 with.
15:22:52 The waters to cool or warm the beer will be recycled.

15:22:55 >> So you don't see that as much of a problem.
15:22:58 >>> No.
15:22:59 And also the grains, those are recycled as well.
15:23:02 Those go to animal feed.
15:23:03 >> They don't go down the sewer?
15:23:05 >>> No.
15:23:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council member Caetano.
15:23:13 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Redner, I don't know if you
15:23:15 can answer this question.
15:23:16 So your only entrance right now is off of West Spruce
15:23:18 Street.
15:23:19 And did you say that you wanted to put a driveway off
15:23:23 of north Grady Avenue?
15:23:25 >>> My father did, yes.
15:23:31 Joe Redner: I tried to develop the property because
15:23:34 it was a truck body shop there, and I remodeled
15:23:37 everything.
15:23:38 Yes, I did try.
15:23:41 City refused to let me do that.
15:23:42 >> Why did they refuse?
15:23:43 Did they say why?
15:23:44 >> They certainly didn't give me a good reason.

15:23:46 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:23:52 Grady at this location is actually classified as a
15:23:55 local street.
15:23:55 Commercial traffic is not allowed to access a
15:23:57 commercial street.
15:23:59 There is a waiver process that he could apply for with
15:24:02 transportation.
15:24:03 It's in the zoning code.
15:24:05 And then if it's denied co-appeal that.
15:24:07 Or he could ask to rezone the property and get a
15:24:09 waiver from council to get access to Grady.
15:24:12 But it is actually restricted by code.
15:24:13 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The people on the other side of
15:24:16 Grady, they don't have access to those buildings
15:24:18 there?
15:24:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Where on the other side of Grady?
15:24:26 >> You have to go to Spruce, come down Spruce.
15:24:31 >> On the other side is waste management.
15:24:34 City of Tampa.
15:24:36 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: That's the city.
15:24:38 Entrance off of Grady there.
15:24:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Via Spruce.

15:24:42 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Via Spruce.
15:24:45 Because as we talked this morning, it seems like we
15:24:47 have a lot of ditches in this city.
15:24:49 [ Laughter ]
15:24:50 The city is behind.
15:24:51 They want to collect the money, but they don't want to
15:24:54 use the money for these improvements.
15:24:56 And it's not right that these kids have to walk in the
15:24:59 street and for you to be denied, because some kids are
15:25:03 walking in the street.
15:25:04 It's a shame.
15:25:05 >>> My mother actually lives not too blocks.
15:25:14 I don't want to do anything that's going to upset the
15:25:17 neighbor because then my mom is going to be mad at me.
15:25:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm getting tired of hearing about
15:25:26 people trying to give the city things and the city not
15:25:30 figuring out a way to accept them, whether it's in the
15:25:32 parks or the street.
15:25:34 So I hope we can figure out a way for Mr. Redner to
15:25:43 make that road accessible and fill in that ditch.
15:25:45 And my other questions, I guess, are for -- I don't
15:25:48 know if they are for Ms. Coyle or for the neighborhood

15:25:50 people.
15:25:51 But when you talk about the kids and not having any
15:25:54 sidewalks, are you talking about Spruce Street or
15:25:58 Grady or both?
15:26:00 >>> Grady.
15:26:01 >>MARY MULHERN: Grady.
15:26:02 Okay.
15:26:04 I'm looking at just the small overhead aerial that we
15:26:08 have.
15:26:09 And it doesn't show -- I don't see any residential
15:26:16 neighborhoods to the west of this property.
15:26:18 On the other side of Grady.
15:26:29 So really across this -- are both Carver City and
15:26:35 Lincoln Gardens north of Spruce?
15:26:38 Lincoln Gardens.
15:26:39 Where is Carver City in relation?
15:26:41 >> N.(off microphone)
15:26:45 >> Lincoln Gardens is this area, here.
15:26:55 Carver City is this area back here.
15:27:01 When the school bus stops and where kids go to the
15:27:03 playground is right here.
15:27:04 They go down Grady.

15:27:09 >>MARY MULHERN: And the bus stop is?
15:27:12 >>> About a block down off of Grady. What they do is
15:27:17 they walk back.
15:27:21 Spruce Street.
15:27:21 They go down --
15:27:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I think we need to talk to the school
15:27:26 district.
15:27:27 It doesn't make any sense that they don't have a bus
15:27:29 stop for the other neighborhoods.
15:27:31 I think you have a lot of challenges with your
15:27:33 neighborhood surrounded by all this industrial.
15:27:36 And you have got all those big box stores who are
15:27:43 really the ones that are creating all the traffic and
15:27:47 Dale Mabry.
15:27:49 >>> The only way they go out is on Dale Mabry.
15:27:54 They come in on Dale Mabry in front of -- the other
15:28:03 exit out is on Spruce Street.
15:28:10 And at Home Depot, they really have a hard time
15:28:16 getting in and out of their area.
15:28:17 >> Yes.
15:28:18 It seems to me like the challenges and the problems,
15:28:23 this proposal doesn't have a whole lot of -- unless we

15:28:29 let them fill in the ditches and build a road, then
15:28:31 that might have a positive effect.
15:28:33 But I really sympathize with the neighborhood.
15:28:37 I hope we can help you make things better there. I
15:28:39 just don't see this request to be something that's
15:28:45 really going to make things that much worse.
15:28:47 Mr. Dingfelder will figure out a way to make it
15:28:51 better.
15:28:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
15:28:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With the additional testimony the
15:28:56 petitioner should have the opportunity to respond if
15:28:58 he wishes to do so.
15:29:00 Is there anything you wish to add?
15:29:02 >>> Joe Redner: I think Ms. Mulhern put it very well.
15:29:06 One thing I would like to say, to the south between us
15:29:10 and Carver City is -- otherwise I don't think we are
15:29:21 going to have an effect.
15:29:21 I haven't done anything. I've been there for five
15:29:24 years.
15:29:26 I have never had a complaint.
15:29:27 If I did I would fix it.
15:29:28 I do not want to give problems to the neighborhood.

15:29:30 If you all were to refuse me, we put the brewery in
15:29:33 here, we come back in a year, and ask for the tasting
15:29:36 place again, and probably with the neighbors saying
15:29:41 that we were a good neighbor, hired somebody from the
15:29:44 neighborhood and never had a problem.
15:29:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
15:29:48 >>MARY MULHERN: Let me ask one question.
15:29:50 Mr. Redner, would you be -- I usually let Mr.
15:29:54 Dingfelder ask -- would you be amenable to a one-year
15:29:58 conditional?
15:29:59 >>> Yes.
15:30:00 Absolutely.
15:30:00 Absolutely.
15:30:08 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:30:09 If you give a one-year conditional, when he comes back
15:30:11 next year, this is for your benefit as well, it would
15:30:14 prompt a special use 2, not a wet zoning so it is a
15:30:17 different type of application at this that point
15:30:19 because we are under the new code now.
15:30:21 >>MARY MULHERN: It would still come to council.
15:30:23 >>> Of course.
15:30:24 It's just a different type of application.

15:30:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
15:30:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
15:30:29 (Motion carried).
15:30:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
15:30:33 We have two neighborhoods that this is going to
15:30:36 effect.
15:30:36 We have heard from both sides, Lincoln Gardens and
15:30:39 Carver City, and we are always want for the sake of
15:30:42 the kids going back and forth going to school.
15:30:45 Our neighborhood, they have a mess out there, and I
15:30:50 feel like they should be heard, and they came to let
15:30:54 us hear what they had to say, they don't want it
15:30:56 there. Mr. Chairman, I move for denial.
15:31:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was just waiting to see if there
15:31:06 was a second.
15:31:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: With all due respect to madam
15:31:11 Miller, I think that if we put some really significant
15:31:16 conditions upon this, that the petitioner has already
15:31:19 agreed to this evening, then I think that for the next
15:31:22 year, the neighborhood can see how it goes.
15:31:25 And although we always want to defer as much as
15:31:29 possible to the neighborhoods, I think as Mr. Caetano

15:31:32 referred to, you know, it's a small business, trying
15:31:36 to get going, I think we should encourage that as long
15:31:38 as it doesn't negatively impact the neighborhood.
15:31:41 So the school children, I don't think, are at risk
15:31:46 because they have got Grady street, and they have got
15:31:48 a 15-foot ditch before they even get to this property.
15:31:52 So we always want to care about school children but I
15:31:55 am not seeing them impacted by the petition.
15:31:59 So, anyway with, that I would like to move approval
15:32:02 with the agreed-upon limitations as follows and direct
15:32:05 legal staff to draft an ordinance appropriately.
15:32:11 Hours of operation, 6 to 10 p.m., not on Sundays,
15:32:17 correct?
15:32:19 >>> Or Saturdays.
15:32:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 6 to 10 p.m. Monday through Friday
15:32:25 limited to four nights per month with a one-year
15:32:28 conditional.
15:32:31 >> Second.
15:32:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Unless legal has a problem with
15:32:34 that, that would be the --
15:32:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I know the petitioner did acknowledge
15:32:38 it.

15:32:39 But if could you just step forward and say, is that
15:32:41 your request to have those conditions?
15:32:43 >>> It is my request that we not be open to serve
15:32:47 alcohol Saturday or Sunday.
15:32:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: One year conditional?
15:32:51 >>> One year conditional.
15:32:57 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Can I put an amendment on that?
15:33:06 I don't know if it would be proper. That Mr. Redner
15:33:07 get ahold of the proper people at public works --
15:33:07 >> I think you -- you don't want --
15:33:07 >> Oh, okay. All right.
15:33:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I am not going to support the
15:33:12 motion on the floor.
15:33:13 I think the correct thing to do is to have them work
15:33:16 with the city to have Grady -- I think that is the way
15:33:23 to go and I think that way you are protecting the
15:33:25 traffic coming through on Spruce.
15:33:27 Bringing it down Spruce is a mistake because you are
15:33:31 bringing more traffic down that's going to affect
15:33:33 Lincoln Gardens, Carver City.
15:33:35 I think the way to go is bring it in on Grady. That's
15:33:37 my position.

15:33:45 There's a motion on the floor.
15:33:46 >> Can I speak to it real quick?
15:33:49 Not to be argumentative.
15:33:50 But the last thing you want to do is encourage any
15:33:53 more traffic on Grady.
15:33:54 Because the testimony we have heard is the children
15:33:57 use Grady.
15:33:59 So I think the fact that this traffic as it is today,
15:34:03 and as it will continue to be, pops out directly onto
15:34:06 Spruce, which we all know is a busy street already.
15:34:08 Just let it be that way.
15:34:10 Grady is a local road.
15:34:11 The city doesn't want traffic on Grady.
15:34:15 And they stated that on the record.
15:34:18 Not to be argumentative, but I think we have reached a
15:34:20 fair compromise.
15:34:21 We'll see how it goes.
15:34:24 >>GWEN MILLER: You are always saying the neighborhoods
15:34:26 come down and speak what they want.
15:34:29 You have other neighbors come down and speak it would
15:34:31 be different.
15:34:32 If you have these come down you are not paying them

15:34:34 any attention.
15:34:35 >> No.
15:34:37 I try and strike compromises for every neighborhood
15:34:39 and that's what I'm trying to do.
15:34:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the issue when you look at
15:34:44 Grady, they are walking in the streets because there's
15:34:46 no sidewalks.
15:34:52 But the issue is that he's going to fix that.
15:34:54 That's my concern.
15:34:55 He's willing to spend the money to close it up and put
15:34:58 a sidewalk, you know.
15:35:00 But, anyway, that's the motion on the floor.
15:35:03 All in favor of the motion signify by Aye.
15:35:05 Opposes?
15:35:07 >>THE CLERK: Motion did not pass with Scott and Miller
15:35:10 voting no.
15:35:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Under rule 4-C this will come back
15:35:16 under your next regular meeting with the public
15:35:18 hearing -- actually, there was actually a public
15:35:22 hearing is not actually closed.
15:35:26 >>GWEN MILLER: It was closed.
15:35:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Okay.

15:35:29 I wanted to double check.
15:35:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Closed it.
15:35:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It would appear, I'm sorry, under
15:35:39 unfinished business on the next agenda, which would be
15:35:43 June 5th, the next regular meeting, with the
15:35:46 public hearing closed, four votes, council members who
15:35:50 are not present today, council members Saul-Sena and
15:35:52 Miranda having reviewed the record and being prepared
15:35:55 to vote.
15:35:56 >> What is the date?
15:35:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: June 5th, 2008, under unfinished
15:36:02 business.
15:36:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 9 a.m.?
15:36:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Some time after 9 a.m.
15:36:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 101.
15:36:23 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Is it open?
15:36:24 You opened all of them.
15:36:26 Thank you.
15:36:29 Andrew Bonnemort Dufrain, located at 707 Harbor Post
15:36:35 Drive.
15:36:36 They are requesting a 4(COP) beer, wine and liquor on
15:36:41 premises and off premises.

15:36:44 It is to serve alcohol in connection with a
15:36:45 restaurant.
15:36:46 The site contains 2,614 square feet indoor seating, a
15:36:51 total of 1471 square feet, will have 50 seats.
15:36:54 Outside area will have 16 seats.
15:36:56 The establishment is located on the ground floor of
15:36:59 the four story building on Harbor Island and it will
15:37:01 be incidental to the function of the business.
15:37:06 In 2003 council did grant a 2(COP-R) for this
15:37:10 location.
15:37:10 There are two locations within 1,000 feet that are wet
15:37:12 zoned.
15:37:13 And there are no institutional uses within a thousand
15:37:20 feet.
15:37:28 This is Cafe Dufrain.
15:37:34 This is the survey showing the location
15:37:39 I did provide you an aerial.
15:37:45 It is in this location.
15:37:47 These are some of the surrounding businesses in that
15:38:01 portion.
15:38:03 And then across the way.
15:38:04 Staff had no objections to the request.

15:38:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Coyle, you probably know what
15:38:15 my question is going to be.
15:38:16 Why isn't this a 4(COP-R)?
15:38:18 Is it because of the size of the establishment can't
15:38:23 accommodate the 4(COP-R)?
15:38:26 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No.
15:38:27 The seating requirements -- this is actually the
15:38:30 request for the 4(COP).
15:38:31 I will ask the petitioner to address that.
15:38:33 >>: Because previously they had a 2(COP-R).
15:38:36 I am not sure why they are not going with 4(COP-R).
15:38:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, if I may, I was out
15:38:47 at 2:00.
15:38:48 But I did come in for the end of the rebuttal on the
15:38:50 previous one and I didn't want to come in because I
15:38:52 was totally unprepared.
15:38:53 I didn't listen to both sides presentation so I didn't
15:38:56 want to -- I know what the vote is and I know what I
15:39:00 have to do.
15:39:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
15:39:03 >>> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police department.
15:39:06 Police department has no objection to this wet zoning.

15:39:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
15:39:12 Petitioner?
15:39:12 Is petitioner here?
15:39:15 >>> Yes.
15:39:17 101 East Kennedy Boulevard, suite 3220 representing
15:39:21 Andrew BONNEMORT.
15:39:26 I believe that is a scrivener's error because --
15:39:33 >>> Because of the square footage.
15:39:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Would you state your name for the
15:39:36 record?
15:39:37 >> I'm sorry.
15:39:38 Andrew Bonnemort for the record.
15:39:41 >>> Our regulations allow it to be an R or a straight
15:39:43 4(COP). It's a state regulation prohibited it.
15:39:47 It's too small for the kind of license that he needs.
15:39:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:39:58 >>> He had passed a 2(COP) was alluded to earlier
15:40:01 since 2003 never had any problems, any issues.
15:40:04 This is a wet zone that is incidental to the operation
15:40:07 of the restaurant.
15:40:08 And it shouldn't present any problems.
15:40:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me see.

15:40:12 Is there any opposition here to this petition?
15:40:16 Petition 101.
15:40:18 Any opposition?
15:40:19 Motion to close?
15:40:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me just hear.
15:40:26 Cathy, do you have anything we need to hear before we
15:40:29 close the public hearing?
15:40:31 Okay.
15:40:31 Second.
15:40:33 (Motion carried)
15:40:39 Mr. Dingfelder.
15:40:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move the following ordinance for
15:40:45 first reading, and an ordinance repealing ordinance
15:40:49 2004-184, regardless of alcoholic content beer, wine
15:40:52 and liquor 4(COP) for consumption on the premises and
15:40:55 in sealed containers for consumption off premises in
15:40:58 connection with the business establishment on that
15:41:00 certain, lot, plot or tract of land located at 707
15:41:03 Harbor Place Drive, Tampa, Florida as more described
15:41:06 in section 3 hereof waiving certain restrictions as to
15:41:09 distance based upon certain findings, providing for
15:41:11 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an

15:41:13 effective date.
15:41:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
15:41:18 (Motion carried).
15:41:18 So moved.
15:41:19 >>THE CLERK: Second reading of the ordinance will be
15:41:21 held June 5th at 9:30 a.m.
15:41:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
15:41:25 Item 102 has been removed.
15:41:27 Item 103.
15:41:29 Again item 103 and 94 -- we just need to set the date
15:41:35 on those, predicated on whether we are going to have a
15:41:38 June 19th meeting.
15:41:39 Okay?
15:41:39 Item 104.
15:41:41 Motion to open.
15:41:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we opened them all, Mr.
15:41:47 Chair.
15:41:48 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:41:52 WZ 08-92, for An Huyn. 1912-1914 South Dale Mabry
15:41:57 Highway. They are requesting a 2(COP-R) beer and wine
15:41:57 sales in association with a restaurant.
15:42:02 The restaurant will be 2,895 square feet with a total

15:42:07 80 seats. There are no wet zoned establishments
15:42:09 within a thousand feet.
15:42:10 There is one residentially zoned property at RO-1
15:42:13 within 1,000 feet and one institutional use Plant High
15:42:17 School within a thousand feet.
15:42:20 Staff had no objections to the request.
15:42:21 Let me give you -- this is Dale Mabry.
15:42:31 There's a Boston Market.
15:42:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Plant high is to the south just
15:42:50 beyond the page.
15:42:51 >>CATHERINE COYLE: This is the actual storefront, 191.
15:42:55 And these are some surrounding uses.
15:42:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: An old strip plaza.
15:43:01 >> Boston Market is directly across the street.
15:43:05 I'm available for any questions.
15:43:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer Miller?
15:43:08 >> Officer Dan Miller, City of Tampa police
15:43:13 department.
15:43:13 I have been sworn.
15:43:16 Police department has no objection.
15:43:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
15:43:22 >> Good afternoon.

15:43:24 My name is Michael Wyn.
15:43:29 My parents started this restaurant 20 years ago.
15:43:32 We are located currently at 3324 Gandy Boulevard.
15:43:37 And they are going to be essentially retiring in a
15:43:40 year or two and I am going to take over the business.
15:43:42 So with this transmission, being that we have been a
15:43:46 part of South Tampa for 20 years I want to be more
15:43:49 essential by taking up this.
15:43:59 It's just going to be a better place for to us do
15:44:01 business because it's in a busier area, and most of
15:44:03 our clients are from that general area, from the Palma
15:44:06 Ceia area west area, and the neighborhood association.
15:44:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me see if there's anyone in
15:44:12 opposition.
15:44:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you have 2(COP-R) at the
15:44:16 existing location?
15:44:17 >>> Yes.
15:44:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close.
15:44:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.
15:44:22 >> Second.
15:44:22 (Motion carried)
15:44:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ms. Mulhern?

15:44:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Move an ordinance making lawful the
15:44:35 sale of beverages containing alcohol of more than 1%
15:44:38 by weight not more than 14% by weight and wines
15:44:41 regardless of alcoholic content beer and wine 2(COP-R)
15:44:46 for consumption on the premises only in connection
15:44:47 with a restaurant business establishment on that
15:44:50 certain plot, lot, or tract of land located at
15:44:54 1912-1914 south Dale Mabry highway, Tampa, Florida, as
15:44:58 more particularly described in section 2 hereof,
15:45:01 waiving certain restrictions as to distance based upon
15:45:04 certain findings, providing for repeal of all
15:45:06 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
15:45:09 >> Second.
15:45:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
15:45:12 All in favor let it be known by Aye.
15:45:15 Opposes?
15:45:15 So moved.
15:45:23 The next date for second reading?
15:45:25 >>THE CLERK: The second reading of the ordinance will
15:45:26 be held June 5th at 9:30 a.m.
15:45:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
15:45:31 Item 105.

15:45:35 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:45:37 WZ 08-100 for Patel KALPESHKUMAR, sales for package.
15:45:51 Area will contain 2,000 square feet.
15:45:53 It will be incidental to the business as a row tail
15:45:57 store.
15:45:57 There is one residential unit within 1,000 feet.
15:46:00 It's zoned IG but it is a residential use.
15:46:03 There are no wet zone properties within 1,000 feet and
15:46:06 there is a Baptist church within 1,000 feet,
15:46:09 institutional use.
15:46:16 This is a survey of the property, the location to be
15:46:19 wet zoned.
15:46:21 And this location is where the retail store will be
15:46:24 and they do have parking out front.
15:46:27 This is on Broadway.
15:46:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Where is the church?
15:46:35 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The church, I believe, was 738
15:46:38 fight away.
15:46:45 On 10th Avenue.
15:46:48 This is the actual location.
15:46:54 This is where it will be.
15:46:57 The parking lot.

15:46:58 This is to the south.
15:47:00 It is an industrial area predominantly.
15:47:03 This is to the west.
15:47:06 And to the east.
15:47:08 Staff has in objection to the request.
15:47:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
15:47:17 >>> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police.
15:47:19 Police department has no objections to the wet zoning.
15:47:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
15:47:24 Petitioner?
15:47:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Patel?
15:47:31 >> My name is Patel KALPESHKUMAR and I.
15:47:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone in opposition?
15:47:47 Thank you.
15:47:48 >>> My name is Robert L. Herman.
15:47:54 I reside at 4503 east 12th Avenue.
15:47:57 Today I am representing Oak Park Baptist church at
15:48:03 4901 east 10th Avenue.
15:48:06 I have a petition here, we the people of Oak Park
15:48:10 Baptist church, a neighborhood, oppose wet zonings for
15:48:13 the address of 4808-A East 7th Avenue.
15:48:18 The store is too close to our church to sell beer and

15:48:22 wine.
15:48:22 We have a homeless population.
15:48:24 When they go down they buy their Miller highlight, put
15:48:27 in the there, and I put trash cans out there. They
15:48:30 won't put them in trash cans.
15:48:31 They just throw them anywhere they want to.
15:48:33 We have a lot of people sleeping on the porch of the
15:48:35 church.
15:48:38 And I have 50 signature here from church members.
15:48:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Submit them to the clerk for the
15:48:44 record.
15:48:46 Thank you.
15:48:46 Next speaker.
15:48:52 >>> My name is Al PALICKI, I own property with a
15:49:00 planned development, 16 family units.
15:49:04 We oppose it simply because of the concern that we
15:49:07 have an additional -- the homeless, the vagrancy,
15:49:14 currently the property is fenced and we have numerous
15:49:16 trash and deposit outside the fence.
15:49:18 We would oppose any wet zoning at that property.
15:49:24 Across the street, they sell the beer and wine.
15:49:28 Also there's a cash and Kerry around the store and

15:49:31 there's a bar three blocks down in the other direction
15:49:33 that sells, you know, full liquor and alcohol.
15:49:36 So we would oppose it based on the neighborhood
15:49:38 conditions and any other kind of restriction that is
15:49:44 might be placed within 1,000 fate of our church as
15:49:47 well.
15:49:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: How close are these other liquor
15:49:55 stores?
15:49:55 Are they liquor stores, bars or what?
15:49:58 >>> Well, one is a regular bar.
15:50:00 They close at three.
15:50:02 The other is three blocks to the south of the
15:50:04 property.
15:50:05 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Three blocks is how many feet?
15:50:10 How many yards?
15:50:12 >>> I would estimate 300, 400 yards.
15:50:15 400 yards possibly.
15:50:18 43rd street.
15:50:20 You know, four blocks.
15:50:21 There's one street missing in between.
15:50:23 Also, the Kash N' Karry, which is right at the corner.
15:50:28 It's probably 300 yards away.

15:50:31 They have the liquor store there as well.
15:50:33 There's a -- I don't see why land zoning would say
15:50:40 there's no liquor store.
15:50:41 The only question is how many liquor stores do you
15:50:44 need in the neighborhood?
15:50:46 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Is this gentleman open there now?
15:50:48 Does he have a store there now?
15:50:49 >>> No.
15:50:50 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I just want to say one thing.
15:50:52 I'm sick and tired, there are people who come before
15:50:54 this City Council looking for a rezoning on something
15:50:58 we either have prostitutes hanging out in the
15:51:01 neighborhood or people with drugs, and that's not his
15:51:03 problem, or any other person who comes into that
15:51:06 neighborhood.
15:51:07 That's the city's problem.
15:51:08 The city has to take care of it.
15:51:11 And, sir, if you are in that church, get those people
15:51:14 off your front step.
15:51:16 It's not right that some businessman suffers because
15:51:19 of hookers, drugs and whatever is out there. It's not
15:51:22 right.

15:51:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else in opposition or in
15:51:30 support?
15:51:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Petitioner, you have an opportunity
15:51:32 to respond to what's been said, if you want to say
15:51:34 anything else to council in closing.
15:51:42 >> I would like to say one thing.
15:51:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, you can't say anything.
15:51:44 That's it.
15:51:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Patel?
15:51:51 You have the right to come.
15:51:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tough right to add anything else in
15:51:54 the record.
15:51:55 Anything tolls say?
15:51:55 >>> No.
15:51:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
15:51:57 Okay.
15:51:58 Motion to close.
15:52:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
15:52:04 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development I just want to say
15:52:05 for the record because the question was about alcohol,
15:52:08 whether other wet zoned establishments, just to make
15:52:10 it Clare for the record, according to the field survey

15:52:12 there were no wet zone establishments within 1,000
15:52:15 feet.
15:52:16 So there was no waiver for that.
15:52:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question.
15:52:24 Is petitioner fluent in English?
15:52:25 >>> I am not aware.
15:52:26 I have never spoken with him.
15:52:32 He said a little bit.
15:52:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: A little bit?
15:52:49 >> He says he does have someone that is fluent in
15:52:54 English that could come back and speak, maybe at a
15:52:56 second public hearing, if you were inclined to approve
15:53:01 this or continue it.
15:53:02 That way he could have someone come and represent him.
15:53:14 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I make a motion that we approve.
15:53:16 He's got to come back for a second hearing.
15:53:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's close the hearing.
15:53:22 There's a motion on the floor to close.
15:53:24 (Motion carried).
15:53:26 Okay, councilman Caetano.
15:53:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance making lawful the
15:53:42 sale of beverages containing alcohol of more than 1%

15:53:44 by weight and not more than 14% by weight and wines
15:53:48 regardless of alcohol content beer and wine 2(APS) in
15:53:52 sealed containers for consumption off premises only at
15:53:56 or from that certain lot, plot, or tract of land
15:53:59 located at 4808-A east Broadway Avenue, Tampa, Florida
15:54:05 as more particularly described in section 2 hereof
15:54:07 waiving certain restrictions as to distance based upon
15:54:10 certain findings, providing for repeal of all
15:54:13 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
15:54:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, if I may address
15:54:20 this.
15:54:20 I have heard some conflicting testimony, one by an
15:54:26 individual who did the survey saying that there are no
15:54:29 alcohol locations within 1,000 feet.
15:54:33 Then I heard from the neighbors that there is
15:54:35 something alcohol right directly across the street.
15:54:37 Well, that could be a fact and it could not be a fact,
15:54:42 but the problem with me is that when I say across the
15:54:45 street, does that mean across the street where there's
15:54:48 nothing around and then at the end of the block where
15:54:50 it's greater than 1,000 -- I'm just asking.
15:54:53 I don't know.

15:54:54 So there is some conflict.
15:54:55 I don't know who -- and I'm not disputing the
15:54:59 individual who did the survey, but I think it needs to
15:55:04 be revisited to make sure we have the correct
15:55:06 information before us.
15:55:07 I don't wanted to be one side or the other side and
15:55:10 then comes outs that whatever testimony I heard today
15:55:13 was innocently -- notice I use the word innocently not
15:55:17 correct on either side.
15:55:19 So I would like to hold this to I don't know what time
15:55:24 they may need to revisit whoever sealed the plan to
15:55:29 confirm that there is nothing alcohol within 1,000
15:55:33 feet.
15:55:34 There is no store there.
15:55:35 That's another yet.
15:55:38 So I don't know all the answers here.
15:55:40 I'm not prepared to vote if somebody is going to cast
15:55:44 a vote because I heard conflicts on the same
15:55:47 testimony.
15:55:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if I can address, what you
15:55:51 have before you is a motion on the floor that has no
15:55:53 second and the public hearing closed.

15:55:56 If it's your desire to continue it for that purpose, I
15:55:58 would suggest you make a motion to reopen the public
15:56:00 hearing and continue it to a date and time certain.
15:56:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, there's a motion that was made.
15:56:06 Is there a second?
15:56:07 Ling
15:56:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No second.
15:56:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then the motion will die for lack of a
15:56:13 second.
15:56:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like to make a new motion
15:56:15 that we extend this.
15:56:16 How much time does this individual sealed and
15:56:22 certified?
15:56:27 >> Second.
15:56:28 (Motion carried).
15:56:30 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
15:56:31 I don't think we can do anything more than request
15:56:33 that the surveyor reexamine his work.
15:56:37 He doesn't have to.
15:56:38 He submitted what's required.
15:56:40 And I think you heard the request of your staff to go
15:56:44 out and do an examination as to where it is, which

15:56:50 would not be another survey but just in case there's
15:56:53 any blatant errors.
15:56:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I make a motion to that effect,
15:56:57 that staff go and review this petition WZ-08-100 at
15:57:01 4808-A east Broadway Avenue, which is 7th Avenue.
15:57:07 To determine if the evidence that was taken today is
15:57:11 all correct, where there are no alcoholic zonings
15:57:14 within 1,000 feet.
15:57:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
15:57:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me ask a question on the motion.
15:57:23 Once staff verifies that there is or isn't, will
15:57:32 council change its vote or be prepared to make a vote
15:57:35 for or against?
15:57:36 Either one?
15:57:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would be prepared to do that.
15:57:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My issue is that the issue of the
15:57:53 church being within 1,000 feet.
15:57:55 That's my concern.
15:57:56 But, anyway, that's a motion.
15:57:58 All in favor let it be known by Aye.
15:58:00 Opposes?
15:58:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And if we could have it set for a

15:58:03 time certain to continue.
15:58:04 Would you wish to come back on June 5th?
15:58:08 >> Well, is staff going to be prepared to respond by
15:58:11 June 5th on this?
15:58:13 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Certainly.
15:58:15 I can just do it our GIS program that the aerials are
15:58:19 produced from.
15:58:20 And as Ms. Kert stated we are not surveyors but I can
15:58:23 look for a blatent error.
15:58:26 If it the Kash N' Karry is more than -- I would
15:58:33 request that he reexamine his work.
15:58:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's the issue of the Kash N' Karry
15:58:38 and then the bar.
15:58:39 The bar.
15:58:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think a personal visit.
15:58:50 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I can visit the area.
15:58:51 I know the area for awhile.
15:58:53 I can go there.
15:58:59 It would be at 10:00?
15:59:01 >> June 5th, 10 a.m.
15:59:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Add that to the motion.
15:59:10 June 5th at 10:00 in the morning.

15:59:12 >> Second.
15:59:13 (Motion carried).
15:59:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, councilman.
15:59:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Before we voted but that's all
15:59:22 right.
15:59:22 Mr. Caetano, I probably said this before, but I agree
15:59:27 we need to clean up the city and do a better job.
15:59:29 But the problem is when you have areas that we know
15:59:31 have problems, you know, for example, Sulphur Springs,
15:59:35 Nebraska, east Broadway, they inherently have
15:59:38 problems.
15:59:40 We can't fix those problems from up here per se.
15:59:43 But we also shouldn't exacerbate those problems with
15:59:47 additional package stores.
15:59:49 And I have always been resistant to additional package
15:59:52 stores probably with one exception that I can think
15:59:55 of.
15:59:55 But I have been resistant in these areas that are
15:59:58 fighting these problems.
15:59:59 I'm just saying that just in the general statement,
16:00:03 not necessarily associated with this particular
16:00:05 location.

16:00:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 106.
16:00:08 We have a substitute ordinance as well on item 106.
16:00:23 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
16:00:25 I have given the correct legal description to the
16:00:27 clerk for the record.
16:00:28 Case WZ 08-101 for Tampa Westshore associates limited
16:00:33 partnership located at 2223 North Westshore Boulevard.
16:00:37 This is unit B-210.
16:00:39 They are requesting a 4(COP-R), beer, wine and liquor
16:00:42 in association with a restaurant.
16:00:44 This is located within the Bay Street portion of the
16:00:47 mall.
16:00:47 It is the outdoor section of the mall.
16:00:54 The wet zoned area will contain 9,698 square feet,
16:00:58 indoor seating of 8500 square feet.
16:01:00 It will have approximately 375 to 425 seats.
16:01:05 The outside areas will have approximately 50 to 75
16:01:08 feet.
16:01:08 You will note on page 1 and 2, continued on page 2
16:01:12 there are several locations that are wet zoned within
16:01:14 1,000 feet all basically within the mall.
16:01:17 Several institutional uses within 1,000 feet.

16:01:20 And no residential uses within 1,000 feet.
16:01:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Point of order, Mr. Chairman.
16:01:27 Cathy, I thought we fixed this so these could be done
16:01:30 administratively or something, didn't we?
16:01:33 >>> This fell under the previous code. That didn't go
16:01:36 into effect until April 1st and they filed this
16:01:39 back in March 13th.
16:01:42 >> Hopefully in the future we won't have any
16:01:46 international mall wet zonings.
16:01:49 >>> As long as they are R's, is that correct.
16:01:52 Is the is the location within the mall. This is the
16:01:54 Bay Street.
16:01:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think when know it.
16:02:04 >>> Anyway, staff had no objections.
16:02:07 >>> Officer Miller, City of Tampa department.
16:02:10 Police have no objections to wet zoning.
16:02:16 >> Ann Pollack, Mechanik Nuccio, 305 South Boulevard.
16:02:21 This is Bay Street International Plaza, the old
16:02:24 Kahunaville site used to be.
16:02:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in opposition?
16:02:28 Anyone top speak in opposition?
16:02:32 (Motion carried).

16:02:33 >> Move the following for first reading, the sale of
16:02:44 beverages containing alcohol of beverage beer wind an
16:02:47 liquor only in connection with a restaurant business
16:02:50 on that certain lot, plot, size, 2223 Westshore
16:02:56 Boulevard, unit B-210, waiving certain restrictions as
16:03:00 to distance based upon certain findings providing for
16:03:02 repeal of all conflicts, providing an effective date.
16:03:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
16:03:09 Opposes?
16:03:10 All right.
16:03:10 Motion carried.
16:03:14 Second reading?
16:03:15 >>THE CLERK: Second reading of the ordinance will be
16:03:18 held June 5th at 9:30 a.m.
16:03:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 107.
16:03:23 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
16:03:27 Case WZ 08-104, Garcia and Alavardo enterprises,
16:03:34 restricted to on-site couples, no off-site couples.
16:03:41 Their request is for 2,514 square feet of indoor area.
16:03:45 And the request is incidental to the primary purpose
16:03:50 of the business.
16:03:50 Council did grant in 2003 a 202nd (COP-R) for this

16:03:54 location.
16:03:55 There is one wet zoned property within a thousand
16:03:57 feet, a convenience store.
16:03:58 Also a residential property within 1,000 feet, and
16:04:02 Giddens playground, if you are familiar with Seminole
16:04:04 Heights area, southeast Seminole Heights in
16:04:06 particular, Giddens playground is the focal point for
16:04:09 that area, within 665 feet.
16:04:19 Than the restaurant currently on-site is here.
16:04:28 Next door is a beauty store.
16:04:29 This is Giddens, which is to the rear, to the south,
16:04:32 and this is south right there.
16:04:40 That is the restaurant.
16:04:42 That's the beauty supply store to the east.
16:04:45 Another location to the west.
16:04:51 Across the street to the north.
16:04:54 And that -- staff had no objections.
16:05:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer Miller?
16:05:07 >>> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police.
16:05:11 Police department has in a objection to this wet
16:05:13 zoning.
16:05:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?

16:05:17 >> Susan Johnson with Fowler White, 501 Kennedy
16:05:25 Boulevard on behalf of petitioners.
16:05:27 I wanted to clarify we did not meet the square footage
16:05:30 requirements for the state license which is the reason
16:05:33 we are not requesting that today.
16:05:35 However in our conversations with the Old Seminole
16:05:36 Heights neighborhood association I did ask that we
16:05:39 agree to a condition that the property which the wet
16:05:44 zoning will be incidental to be a restaurant, and it
16:05:46 is currently a restaurant.
16:05:48 It will be continued for use as a restaurant.
16:05:50 So we did ask for that change in the ordinance.
16:05:52 And I also did note a scrivener's error, I guess, in
16:05:57 the name of the entity.
16:05:59 It's actually Garcia and ALVARAD so there's an
16:06:06 additional "A" in there.
16:06:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Probably want to address on this item.
16:06:11 >> I can D want to make note of the waivers.
16:06:13 We are, in light of the conditions, we are requesting
16:06:18 your approval of the waivers to the distance
16:06:20 requirements.
16:06:21 Thank you.

16:06:23 >> Susan long, president of the Old Seminole Heights
16:06:28 neighborhood association.
16:06:29 I have been asked by the president of the southeast
16:06:31 Seminole Heights and south Seminole Heights to speak
16:06:34 for them as well.
16:06:35 We are all in agreements with we have in a problem
16:06:36 with getting the 4(COP-X) as long as it is restricted
16:06:40 to restaurant only with no reporting requirements.
16:06:42 Thank you.
16:06:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
16:06:45 Motion to close.
16:06:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
16:06:47 So moved.
16:06:48 [ Laughter ]
16:06:49 >> Second.
16:06:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been a long day.
16:06:55 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
16:06:56 I did already amend the ordinance if it's the desire
16:07:01 of City Council to include the condition that the
16:07:05 owner operated.
16:07:06 However to do that during your appeal actually is what
16:07:09 it said on the petition.

16:07:10 But I can change that during the appeal.
16:07:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Does the clerk have an ordinance?
16:07:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
16:07:25 Mr. Chairman, I move an ordinance with waivers, an
16:07:27 ordinance repealing --
16:07:29 Hold it one second.
16:07:30 That's not the right one.
16:07:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I knew you wanted to see if I was
16:07:34 awake.
16:07:39 Rebecca, does this specify with waivers?
16:07:44 Does this specify with waivers or do I have to mention
16:07:46 it?
16:07:47 >>REBECCA KERT: That is the correct ordinance and it
16:07:49 has a condition in it and I'll change the name and
16:07:52 spelling.
16:07:52 >> I move an ordinance number 2003-2004 making lawful
16:07:57 the sale of beverages regardless of alcoholic content
16:08:00 beer, wine and liquor 4(COP-X) for consumption on
16:08:03 premises only at or from the certain lot or plat or
16:08:07 tract of land, 1235 east Hillsborough Avenue Tampa,
16:08:12 Florida, waiving certain restrictions based to certain
16:08:16 findings, imposing certain conditions, providing for

16:08:20 conflicts, providing an effective date.
16:08:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It does have all the conditions?
16:08:24 All the conditions that the neighborhood has asked?
16:08:29 >>> Yes.
16:08:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Throws a motion and second by
16:08:33 councilman Dingfelder.
16:08:34 (Motion carried)
16:08:35 >>THE CLERK: Second reading of the ordinance will be
16:08:40 held June 5th at 9:30 a.m
16:08:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
16:08:46 Our next item is 109.
16:08:49 Appeal hearing.
16:08:56 >>CATHERINE COYLE: It's open, correct?
16:08:58 Land development.
16:08:58 Case Z 08 -- V-08-is it, 5914 North Tampa Street.
16:09:05 Michael Lamont.
16:09:06 A request for an extended family residence.
16:09:10 You will note the waivers that are being requested to
16:09:12 increase the allowable unit size.
16:09:17 The code restricts it to 600 square feet.
16:09:19 They do meet 612 square feet.
16:09:25 You will note that it does not include the utility

16:09:27 room that's attached to the rear which service it is
16:09:29 main house as well.
16:09:30 It's not part of that structure.
16:09:33 Also to decrease the rear setback for accessory
16:09:36 structure from 20 feet to 19.4.
16:09:38 There's a provision on page 1 of the staff report.
16:09:40 This gives you the two provisions of a single-family
16:09:44 residence special use criteria, paragraph A.
16:09:49 Paragraph C states clearly that we can allow
16:09:51 single-family residence that meet the conditions.
16:09:53 However they cannot be placed in a structure that's
16:09:55 not in conformance to setback.
16:09:57 So if there is a letter setback than what is required
16:09:59 by code, that waiver does need to be requested.
16:10:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This is .6?
16:10:12 >>> .6 feet and 12 square feet larger.
16:10:17 It seems small but I can only approve the letter of
16:10:21 the law.
16:10:21 You will note on page 2 of the staff report City
16:10:23 Council through the S-1 appeal process may review
16:10:26 these conditions.
16:10:26 You must also take into consideration the application

16:10:29 of the general standards under 27-269 which is
16:10:32 ensuring the public health, safety and general
16:10:34 welfare, that's consistent with the comprehensive
16:10:36 plan, that is compatible and with continuous
16:10:40 surrounding properties, does not establish a precedent
16:10:43 in the area, and also it's the responsibility of the
16:10:46 applicant to place on the record evidence and
16:10:49 testimony that shows you that it complies with those
16:10:51 standards.
16:10:54 Section 272, I included all of the criteria for to you
16:10:58 review.
16:10:59 Please note that we did find it inconsistent simply
16:11:01 because did it not meet the criteria. However,
16:11:04 council does have the ability to grant those waivers.
16:11:11 This is the location of the zoning atlas.
16:11:13 Area is zoned RS-50. This does lie within Old
16:11:17 Seminole Heights.
16:11:21 This is Tampa street.
16:11:22 This is Idlewild. This is Florida Avenue.
16:11:26 This is the location here.
16:11:34 This is Idlewild coming in.
16:11:36 Seminole Heights. This is the front porch on the

16:11:39 corner.
16:11:40 And then there's a -- main cut through.
16:11:48 This is the Catholic church.
16:11:51 I'm available for any questions.
16:11:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
16:11:55 Petitioner?
16:11:55 >>> Mr. Chairman, members of the City Council, my name
16:12:06 is Mike Lamont, and I reside at 4929 River Shore
16:12:13 Drive.
16:12:14 I am representing my son Michael A. Lamont, who is the
16:12:18 owner of the 5914 North Tampa Street, which is the
16:12:23 subject property.
16:12:25 He is not only the owner, he also lives there.
16:12:28 And he applied for an extended family use.
16:12:33 He was denied for one item that was the over 600
16:12:38 square feet of living area.
16:12:39 Everything else was approved.
16:12:41 So we are here to ask the City Council to allow his
16:12:46 mother to have -- his mother is 60 yourself old, this
16:12:54 would be a place for her to live, and we are asking
16:12:58 council to grant us the appeal to have this extended
16:13:01 family use.

16:13:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You answered one of my questions,
16:13:09 the additional person is his mother.
16:13:12 And how long has that outbuilding been there and what
16:13:17 purpose has it been used for?
16:13:19 >>> Previous to Michael lived in that building, it was
16:13:23 a cottage.
16:13:25 He was there about six years.
16:13:27 And then he built the home up front, a bungalow.
16:13:32 He built a bungalow up front for the purpose of being
16:13:35 able to let his mother live in the back.
16:13:38 So it's been there, the original structure was there
16:13:43 probably a good 25 years or better, and when he moved
16:13:48 into it, he rehabbed it, picked it up.
16:13:51 It was a nice cottage, and so recently we upgraded the
16:13:56 kitchen and did things to it.
16:13:58 >> Did you bring any pictures?
16:14:01 >>> No, sir, I did not.
16:14:02 >> You are not going to give your mother the nicer
16:14:05 place?
16:14:06 I'm just kidding.
16:14:06 >>> The only pictures that I have here and I can show
16:14:08 you these are the pictures that we took.

16:14:22 That's the bungalow.
16:14:23 And to the rear is the cottage.
16:14:28 It has the rear alley entrance and parking area.
16:14:31 And that's where her entrances are.
16:14:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
16:14:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public that wishes to
16:14:46 address council on this issue?
16:14:48 Anyone from the public?
16:14:49 Please come forward.
16:14:55 >> Susan long, president of Old Seminole Heights
16:14:57 neighborhood association.
16:14:58 I believe you were provided a letter from the land use
16:15:00 committee.
16:15:02 It was sense e-mailed back to you by the chair of the
16:15:05 land use committee.
16:15:06 For your information, the land use committee is a
16:15:08 committee composed of representatives from southeast,
16:15:10 south, and Old Seminole Heights on these issues.
16:15:14 The land use committee has asked that this not be
16:15:16 approved.
16:15:18 On the night that we met, Mr. Lamont and the neighbors
16:15:21 were invited to come.

16:15:22 Neighbors show.
16:15:23 We received no information or response from Mr.
16:15:26 Lamont.
16:15:28 After the meeting was over and we informed him that we
16:15:29 had requested that this be denied, he then informed us
16:15:32 that he had been out of town.
16:15:34 But made no request to come meet with us at a
16:15:36 different time for whatever reason.
16:15:38 The neighbors came and stated that when the front
16:15:41 bungalow was built they were told the back bungalow,
16:15:44 the back house, whatever you want to call it, was to
16:15:47 become the son's music studio.
16:15:49 Therefore they did not object.
16:15:51 They are very concerned that this is going to result
16:15:53 in a rental property in a few years.
16:15:55 Mr. Lamont owns several other properties inside Tampa,
16:15:59 or at least Hillsborough County, both of which have
16:16:02 property A and property B on the same property, and we
16:16:04 are afraid that's what will happen in the new
16:16:06 neighborhood and we would request it not be approved.
16:16:09 As a result, the way we have always functioned, we
16:16:13 asked surrounding neighbors and requested this special

16:16:15 use not be approved.
16:16:16 Thank you.
16:16:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next.
16:16:23 >> John Gary, 5912 Tampa street next to the property.
16:16:30 I just don't understand how it says, you have one
16:16:37 single family residence and he built a second one with
16:16:39 the intentions of moving somebody into the first one,
16:16:42 in a single-family residential neighborhood.
16:16:45 That's what I just can't understand.
16:16:47 And this property in the future is going to be worth
16:16:54 more than my property because he has rental property.
16:16:56 And I oppose it.
16:16:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I ask a question?
16:17:02 >>> Yes, sir.
16:17:03 >> Our rules are pretty strict on this.
16:17:05 I was just reading them.
16:17:06 And they say that under this exception, it's only
16:17:11 allowed for family members.
16:17:14 That's what our rules say.
16:17:16 I know rules are broken.
16:17:17 But our rules specifically say that it's only between
16:17:21 family members.

16:17:22 They have to be by ballad or by adoption or what have
16:17:24 you.
16:17:24 >>> Right.
16:17:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So let's say for argument SACE
16:17:28 sake, if they abided by the rules and kept with the
16:17:32 son and his mother in the back, would you have a
16:17:35 problem with that?
16:17:39 >>> Mother, not a problem in the world.
16:17:42 Who is going to police it?
16:17:44 You know, it began as a single-family and put two
16:17:49 single-family residences on the property, what can I
16:17:53 say?
16:17:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
16:17:59 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
16:18:00 I just want to state for the record you opened the
16:18:02 door on the one provision.
16:18:03 If you look at paragraph F, the occupant of
16:18:08 single-family residence may not pay rent for the use
16:18:10 also.
16:18:10 Just to let you know as part of this process, land
16:18:12 development does an annual inspection of every
16:18:15 extended family residence in the city. This property

16:18:18 would not be an exception to that.
16:18:19 We would do an annual inspection and recertify that it
16:18:23 is a relative, and that they are not paying rent and
16:18:27 the main house is owner occupied.
16:18:30 If there's a violation we take them through the code
16:18:32 enforcement process.
16:18:33 Just to let you know for the record.
16:18:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, on that statement at
16:18:41 the end, that it's verifiable, do we knock on the
16:18:46 door, and whoever answer it is door, is it done by
16:18:50 water or electric billing or how is it done?
16:18:52 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
16:18:53 We keep their information on file and we send notice
16:18:57 letters to them annually, sometime in June, to let
16:19:00 them know that the inspections are coming up.
16:19:02 They usually occur around August in the summer.
16:19:07 We send them out a notice to contact us immediately to
16:19:10 set up an appointment, and we actually set an
16:19:12 appointment, because we don't go on people's property
16:19:14 without permission for inspections.
16:19:17 We set an appointment.
16:19:18 And then one of my staff members goes out and actually

16:19:21 inspects with the property owner.
16:19:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, ma'am, come forward.
16:19:31 >>> My name is Francis Gary Linderman.
16:19:34 I was born in Tampa, Hillsborough County, in 1927, and
16:19:38 we built our home in 1915, been there ever since.
16:19:42 And we love our neighborhood.
16:19:43 I was born three miles away from this property.
16:19:46 And when we bought our property, it was zoned
16:19:50 one-family dwelling to a lot.
16:19:53 And now he's divided it.
16:19:56 And there's three houses on that one what used to be
16:19:59 one city lot.
16:20:01 And he didn't abide by that so what can we say?
16:20:07 >> Where would the third be?
16:20:08 >> He split the lot.
16:20:11 And made a little -- and there's a house on it.
16:20:18 And one on the back end of the other.
16:20:20 And it didn't ever come up to code but they just kept
16:20:23 adding onto it and adding onto it.
16:20:25 And it was easier to pay the fine than get the permit
16:20:31 and all.
16:20:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?

16:20:40 Petitioner?
16:20:42 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
16:20:45 Just to remained you, as an appeal process from the
16:20:47 special use criteria, council, you can grant the
16:20:51 waivers or you do not have to.
16:20:53 This petition does not meet the standard and that's
16:20:56 why staff found it inconsistent.
16:20:58 So please be sure to weigh that evidence.
16:21:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question to staff.
16:21:03 I'm sorry.
16:21:05 If they didn't get approval from us, and they said,
16:21:10 okay, we are going to cut off a chunk of that little
16:21:15 building 3 by 4 feet, 12 square feet of that building,
16:21:20 just hack it off, tear it down, then they would be
16:21:25 compliant?
16:21:27 >>> They would have to remove apportion of that
16:21:30 utility room and also remove a portion of the unit
16:21:32 itself.
16:21:32 >> That's what I'm saying, the unit itself.
16:21:34 >>> And then they would reapply.
16:21:36 >> When they reapply then --
16:21:39 >>> They would be -- they file a certified statement

16:21:42 they are going to meet the conditions and if it
16:21:44 measured out properly then we would grant that and
16:21:46 they would fall under the process.
16:21:48 That's correct.
16:21:54 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a few questions.
16:21:56 The way this process -- did this happen because there
16:22:00 was a violation, and then there was a fine, and then
16:22:04 they had to --
16:22:08 >>> I don't know that there was a fine.
16:22:09 >> How did the whole process start?
16:22:12 Did petitioner initiate the request for a zoning
16:22:15 change?
16:22:17 Or was there --
16:22:20 >>> I believe there was a citation issued.
16:22:22 I don't know that a fine had been assessed yet.
16:22:32 >>MARY MULHERN: One other question.
16:22:33 But to keep in mind.
16:22:35 If this unusual in this neighborhood to have a
16:22:39 mother-in-law?
16:22:43 >>> On this particular side of the neighborhood, on
16:22:45 the west side of Florida, it not uncommon, no, to have
16:22:50 detached residential units.

16:22:51 This is not the historic district.
16:22:55 There aren't as many garage apartments built on the
16:23:00 west side.
16:23:04 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: If it's 600 feet it's all right?
16:23:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's what the staff is saying.
16:23:10 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Do you measure the outside wall
16:23:13 or the living spaces?
16:23:15 >>> Gross square footage to the outside of the
16:23:17 building wall.
16:23:18 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: You probably only have 600 feet
16:23:22 inside.
16:23:22 That's the livable space.
16:23:26 In other words, if the building is 20 by 20, all
16:23:29 right?
16:23:29 But you should measure from the inside.
16:23:33 Because they can't live on the outside of the wall.
16:23:35 They have got to live on the inside.
16:23:36 >>> Correct.
16:23:37 Our measurements are square footage.
16:23:40 >> There's a fault in that.
16:23:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I don't know about
16:23:47 fault or proofs or whatever, but am I correct here, if

16:23:50 you are looking at a building that has to be something
16:23:52 more than 20 by 30.
16:23:56 >>> Whatever equals -- yes.
16:23:58 >> I don't know if it equals 30.
16:24:04 >>> It does.
16:24:05 >> 20 by 30.
16:24:06 I have to know more before I make up my mind as to how
16:24:09 the process of this inappropriate building, does it
16:24:14 have a separate meter?
16:24:16 Does it have the same electric meter?
16:24:17 Does it have two water meters?
16:24:21 Was the person who was living in it at the time
16:24:23 connected with the family?
16:24:24 I don't know.
16:24:25 >>> You would like more information about the
16:24:28 citation?
16:24:29 >> Yes.
16:24:29 I don't know what you have.
16:24:31 I don't know.
16:24:34 Was there anyone living in the building -- no one was
16:24:38 living in the building?
16:24:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Maybe the young man can answer.

16:24:44 >>> I'm representing him.
16:24:45 >>> My name is Michael Lamont.
16:24:48 I was living in the building for six to seven years.
16:24:53 >> Then you built the house on the front?
16:24:55 >>> Yeah, then I built the house up front.
16:24:58 And now my mom lives there.
16:25:07 >> And you got one meter for both?
16:25:10 There's two meeters?
16:25:12 >>> When we applied for the permit for the house up
16:25:14 front, people say you can't do one meter, you have to
16:25:19 leave the meter where it's at on the other structure
16:25:21 and a new meter for this structure.
16:25:23 >> What about water meeters?
16:25:25 >>> One water bill.
16:25:26 >> One meeter?
16:25:31 >>> One meter.
16:25:32 >> Common driveway?
16:25:34 >>> I believe, Mr. Miranda, in answer to some of the
16:25:39 questions you were asking her, I can probably answer
16:25:41 those.
16:25:42 And I'm not questioning.
16:25:51 One thing, I own a lot of property in Tampa.

16:25:54 Only other property I own --
16:25:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I can only base my decision on what
16:25:59 we have in front of us.
16:26:00 I took that as evidence but it does not prescribe to
16:26:05 this so I don't blank out -- I'm not a judge but I
16:26:10 have to only take the evidence in front.
16:26:11 That's why I'm asking the question.
16:26:15 Sometimes it seems relevant, sometimes not.
16:26:16 >>> The fact this is done for his mother, not for
16:26:22 rental purposes.
16:26:23 And I believe the city ordinance states you cannot
16:26:30 rent it out, it has to be for a relative which he has
16:26:34 signed an affidavit, it is a blood relative that is
16:26:36 going to live there.
16:26:37 >> Let me say this to the staff, if I may ask.
16:26:40 What happens if this ceases to ab blood relative
16:26:45 living there, and that individual wants to move out?
16:26:47 >>CATHERINE COYLE: If the relative that occupies the
16:26:53 single-family residence moves out because it cannot be
16:26:55 rented by anyone else or occupied by anyone else then
16:26:58 it needs to be actually converted back to a
16:27:00 single-family residence.

16:27:01 The issue with an extended family residence or
16:27:04 accessory dwelling unit is it has a separate kitchen.
16:27:07 That's third component.
16:27:09 So the kitchen would actually need to be removed.
16:27:12 So this property goes back to a conforming status of a
16:27:15 single-family residence.
16:27:16 >> I remember a case like that about four months ago
16:27:19 in South Tampa.
16:27:20 >>> It happens occasionally.
16:27:24 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Happens every day, Charlie, in
16:27:26 Tampa.
16:27:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Ms. Coyle also informed me the issue
16:27:29 of having two meters also requires an additional
16:27:32 waiver which is not covered in the ordinance that you
16:27:33 have before you.
16:27:35 It's something that was just learned through the
16:27:37 testimony that would require an additional waiver.
16:27:39 >>> That's correct.
16:27:40 There would be additional waiver needed in the
16:27:41 ordinance if you were wanting to approve it.
16:27:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anything else?
16:27:51 Okay.

16:27:51 Motion to close?
16:27:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.
16:27:55 >> Second.
16:27:55 (Motion carried).
16:27:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So moved.
16:27:58 Pleasure of council?
16:27:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we have to look back at the
16:28:03 underlying ordinance.
16:28:04 I know Ms. Saul-Sena probably helped draft this a
16:28:08 couple years back.
16:28:09 But we refer to these as granny pads.
16:28:13 To encourage families to be able to stay together.
16:28:15 Sometimes you have got an older relative that you want
16:28:18 to take care of, that sort of thing.
16:28:20 My mother is watching.
16:28:21 I hope she doesn't get any ideas.
16:28:24 But, anyway --
16:28:30 You will get an idea when you get home.
16:28:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just kidding, mother.
16:28:34 Mother lives several blocks away and we get along
16:28:37 great.
16:28:37 But, anyway, I think the policy behind it is very,

16:28:40 very sound.
16:28:41 So the bottom line on this one is, it barely missed
16:28:46 instead of 600 square feet they have 612 square feet
16:28:49 and, Joe, as you pointed out most of the difference is
16:28:52 probably cinder block.
16:28:53 Instead of 20 feet to the rear yard setback, they have
16:28:56 got 19.5 feet.
16:28:58 Okay.
16:28:58 So they are just barely mentioned.
16:29:01 I know the neighborhood has great concern.
16:29:05 They don't want rental.
16:29:06 So what you need to do if this pass says just be very
16:29:10 diligent.
16:29:11 You live nearby.
16:29:12 Keep an eye on the property.
16:29:15 If his mother is no longer there and you start seeing
16:29:17 young people, now, renting the back, then we'll give
16:29:22 you our card, we'll give you Cathy's card, call us up
16:29:27 and we'll enforce it.
16:29:29 But at the same time the gentleman in the back said if
16:29:30 it's truly his mother he didn't have a problem with
16:29:32 it.

16:29:33 Today the best evidence in front of us is that it's
16:29:35 truly his mother.
16:29:36 So, you know, I'm willing to give him all three
16:29:41 waivers and let's cross our fingers that these are law
16:29:44 abiding people.
16:29:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll second that.
16:29:47 We certainly have in place by the evidence that was
16:29:49 taken in today from Cathy Coyle that does go out and
16:29:54 verify these items.
16:29:55 So if it's passed today, I guess next month you get a
16:29:58 notice they are going to inspect you in August.
16:30:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My question is, Cathy, the testimony
16:30:11 of the neighborhood, there are three houses on this
16:30:13 lot.
16:30:13 Is that right?
16:30:13 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
16:30:14 I think what occurred was that there were two platted
16:30:17 lots, and they were split apart, and that their house
16:30:20 was built on another one, and that he had the rear
16:30:22 unit, and then he built one in the front.
16:30:25 That was made for three.
16:30:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What about the violation, the

16:30:33 violation of the code?
16:30:34 >>> The violation I'm aware of is with this particular
16:30:38 use, if you were to grant the appeal, then the
16:30:42 citation would stop essentially, nor particular use.
16:30:47 I'm not aware of his violation as round the city.
16:30:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion on the floor.
16:30:54 Motion to approve, I guess to reverse the denial.
16:31:03 And to approve the petition.
16:31:06 >>JULIA COLE: Actually, you would vote to adopt the
16:31:10 ordinance which would have the effect of reversing the
16:31:10 decision of the zoning administrator and you should
16:31:21 have an ordinance.
16:31:23 As you heard, there's a necessity for an additional
16:31:25 waiver, that I can add a note for to you include that
16:31:30 as part of your motion but I can add an additional
16:31:33 waiver.
16:31:33 >> And that was the intent of the motion?
16:31:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move an ordinance approving
16:31:41 special use S-1 approving an extended family residence
16:31:45 in ab RS-50 single-family zoning district in the city
16:31:48 of Tampa, Florida more particularly described in
16:31:49 section 1 allowing an extended family residence,

16:31:52 providing an effective date.
16:31:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And include the other --
16:32:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That would include any waivers
16:32:02 necessary.
16:32:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
16:32:04 Opposes?
16:32:05 I vote no.
16:32:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion passes.
16:32:16 >>THE CLERK: The second reading of the ordinance will
16:32:17 be held June 5th at 9:30 a.m.
16:32:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
16:32:29 We need to take up new business and those items -- we
16:32:32 actually need under new business the motion by
16:32:35 councilwoman Mulhern for the hurricane awareness
16:32:39 month.
16:32:42 Do you want to make that motion now?
16:32:46 >> Just move the resolution?
16:32:50 It doesn't have to be read.
16:32:52 >> Just move it.
16:32:55 >> So moved.
16:32:57 >> Second.
16:32:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Hurricane awareness month within the

16:33:01 city of Tampa, Florida providing an effective date.
16:33:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor let it be known by Aye.
16:33:08 Opposes?
16:33:09 (Motion carried)
16:33:10 The second issue is whether to have a meeting for June
16:33:14 19th.
16:33:15 And the reason we are requesting that is because in my
16:33:18 meeting yesterday, an updated, we got so many items
16:33:22 that are going to be coming to us on the 26th, I
16:33:25 think.
16:33:26 And that's going to be a long, long, long meeting.
16:33:31 >> Could I ask you, what type of items?
16:33:33 Are they consent items?
16:33:35 If they are, it really doesn't have much effect.
16:33:38 Or are they staff report items?
16:33:42 >> I disagree with that.
16:33:43 It is now 25 minutes to five.
16:33:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I know, but what I'm saying, if you
16:33:48 do consent, it doesn't matter if it's consent items 1
16:33:51 through 100 or 1 through 200.
16:33:54 If we do consent it passes.
16:33:56 But if it's discussion items, then --

16:33:59 Some of them are zoning, wet zonings, too.
16:34:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have a few second readings for
16:34:04 wet zonings that would be taken up, I believe, from
16:34:10 June 5th, that they would be able to come back on
16:34:13 the 19th.
16:34:15 You presently have three wet zonings, I believe,
16:34:17 scheduled for first reading on June 5th so those
16:34:20 would be able to come back on second reading.
16:34:23 If you wish to have any staff reports, the 26th
16:34:27 between now and the 19th, you can add them to the
16:34:30 19th.
16:34:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And the other issue was, which we will
16:34:36 talk about at our workshop is, when we are reviewing
16:34:38 the agenda already was set, A at 9:00 for staff
16:34:41 report, unfinished business.
16:34:47 Which is set for a workshop day and already had been
16:34:50 added to the agenda for staff reports, unfinished
16:34:53 business.
16:34:55 I raids the question, who set the agenda?
16:34:57 We'll talk about that another day on the 22nd.
16:35:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if I could just remind
16:35:03 council.

16:35:03 Julia Cole did remind me.
16:35:05 I think it's significant to note that the night of
16:35:07 June 26th is going to be a very unique day because
16:35:10 it's going to be one of the few days, because of your
16:35:14 recess taking place, that you will have a full day
16:35:18 regular agenda, and then coming up at 6 p.m., or the
16:35:22 evening of the 26th, will be the comprehensive
16:35:25 plan, which will be a full hearing for the adoption of
16:35:30 the comprehensive plan.
16:35:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The 26th?
16:35:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe so.
16:35:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Plus rezonings?
16:35:39's what I'm trying to
16:35:40u.
16:35:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: According to this it says you have
16:35:43 three set for June 12th.
16:35:45 I don't know -- and my suggestion would be -- and I
16:35:48 spoke to Ms. Cole about this, that with the
16:35:51 comprehensive plan coming on the 26th it will be
16:35:53 wise not to add any additional night meetings.
16:35:57 Rezonings.
16:35:57 But then that would only leave you effectively one
16:36:00 night on the 12th for your rezonings. But

16:36:04 currently only have 12 scheduled.
16:36:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is June 19th.
16:36:11 I'm not for or against.
16:36:14 I don't mind giving you the opportunity to prove out
16:36:17 your theory, and your hypothesis.
16:36:20 However, fur wrong, you might be vice chairman.
16:36:23 [ Laughter ]
16:36:27 >>MARY MULHERN: Is that a motion?
16:36:29 >> Motion on the floor but keep in mind you have
16:36:31 already set a workshop for 9 a.m. on the 19th.
16:36:34 You have set the comprehensive plan, and a workshop to
16:36:40 transmittal for the codes.
16:36:49 Still it's not a regular meeting.
16:36:50 That's why we need to schedule.
16:36:52 Council will have to vote on that.
16:36:54 That's a motion, yes.
16:36:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Could we make the workshop time
16:37:00 certain in the arch?
16:37:01 The workshop part.
16:37:02 Still have your regular council meeting on the
16:37:04 19th and then move the workshop to the end of the
16:37:06 meeting?

16:37:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would go the other direction.
16:37:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have to go along with Mr.
16:37:13 Dingfelder.
16:37:13 That gives us incentive to move along.
16:37:17 Like John Wayne said, speak low, too softly and don't
16:37:20 speak too often.
16:37:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Have the workshop at nine and the
16:37:23 board meeting after the workshop.
16:37:24 Okay?
16:37:25 So then we would notice probably the workshop at
16:37:28 10:00.
16:37:31 I mean the board meeting at 10.
16:37:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: As long as it starts sometime after
16:37:36 the time you set it.
16:37:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Set it at ten, yeah.
16:37:41 So then the motion then, we had a workshop here at
16:37:44 nine and then our regular meeting at 10 a.m.
16:37:47 That's the motion.
16:37:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here's the only problem that I see.
16:37:50 You have comp plan issues 9:00 to 10:00.
16:37:54 It looks like staff wants to talk to us about code
16:37:57 amendments from 10:00 to something.

16:37:59 So we need to give staff some time to talk about code
16:38:04 amendments.
16:38:06 I don't know how complex they are in this cycle.
16:38:10 I would give it an hour.
16:38:13 If they are serious about code amendments.
16:38:15 Sorry, we just lost Cathy.
16:38:17 But why don't we say at least 10:30 for the regular
16:38:21 board meeting?
16:38:22 Because otherwise --
16:38:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Are you all comfortable with that?
16:38:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's fine.
16:38:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's a motion that we hold our
16:38:29 meeting on the 19th at 9:00 for the workshop and
16:38:34 10:00 before council's meeting.
16:38:35 All in favor let it be known by Aye.
16:38:37 >>THE CLERK: Who was the second?
16:38:39 >>MARY MULHERN: I seconded.
16:38:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And tell staffer if they can take
16:38:44 some of that stuff from the 26th and slide it into
16:38:46 the 19th.
16:38:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's correct.
16:38:48 With that being said, we told said we would add item

16:38:53 103 and item 94 to either the 19th or the
16:38:56 26th.
16:38:57 I would suggest that we put those two items on the
16:38:59 19th.
16:39:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I agree with you, sir, because the
16:39:02 26th they already told us.
16:39:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I second Mr. Miranda's motion.
16:39:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You are requesting Mr. Bentley's
16:39:12 item --
16:39:14 93 and 104, I believe.
16:39:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 93 was Mr. Michelini's Beach Park, is
16:39:21 that correct?
16:39:22 >> What did we do with 94?
16:39:25 Oh, 94 and 103 we still have not set the --
16:39:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 94 got put off till the fall.
16:39:34 So it was 103.
16:39:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: October something.
16:39:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So it is 103.
16:39:44 Item 103 will be moved to the 19th in the morning,
16:39:48 right?
16:39:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 10:30.
16:39:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Did we get a motion on that?

16:39:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll make that motion.
16:39:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved by councilman Miranda, seconded
16:40:02 by councilman Dingfelder, the 19th at 10:30 in the
16:40:09 morning.
16:40:09 (Motion carried).
16:40:10 Under new business?
16:40:13 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a number of things.
16:40:15 I need to cover one item that we didn't do, which
16:40:21 was -- well, first, I heard from staff that they are
16:40:26 concerned because we set the review, the six-month
16:40:33 review of the expenditure report for a date that is
16:40:41 probably unlikely to have a lot of attendance, I think
16:40:45 it Tuesday after Memorial Day.
16:40:47 So they requested, and I am going to ask to make a
16:40:52 motion that we move that report to May 22nd at
16:40:58 1:30 p.m., a workshop on the revenue and expenditure
16:41:03 report, six-month.
16:41:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: When?
16:41:06 What's the date?
16:41:09 >>MARY MULHERN: May 22nd, 1:30 p.m.
16:41:14 Next Thursday.
16:41:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have a night meeting, though.

16:41:18 We have a night meeting so keep that in mind.
16:41:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't believe you can add any more.
16:41:24 You have four new land rezonings and four continued
16:41:26 for a total of eight presently scheduled.
16:41:29 >>MARY MULHERN: At night you mean?
16:41:32 Well, we need to do this.
16:41:33 You know, it's something that he would need to do
16:41:35 every year is review the six-month revenue and finance
16:41:38 report.
16:41:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there an issue with you Bonnie Wise
16:41:44 being available?
16:41:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, but I believe this was cleared
16:41:48 by your office with Bonnie Wise.
16:41:50 >>MARY MULHERN: She'll be there.
16:41:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So 1:30 on the 22nd.
16:41:54 >>MARY MULHERN: That's a motion.
16:41:55 (Motion carried).
16:41:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Then more budget meetings.
16:42:00 We need to schedule the two initial budget meetings
16:42:06 where we get the report.
16:42:10 The report of the finance department and the
16:42:12 individual departments in June.

16:42:16 And this has been cleared with Bonnie Wise, who is out
16:42:20 of town.
16:42:21 I'm recommend Tuesday, June 10th either at 10 a.m.
16:42:27 or -- no.
16:42:30 Yeah.
16:42:31 Either 10 a.m. or 2 p.m.
16:42:34 Either of those sound --
16:42:39 >> Go ahead, I'm listening.
16:42:40 >>MARY MULHERN: The first one Tuesday, June 10th
16:42:44 at -- oh, yeah, that's fine.
16:42:49 I would rather do it at the 10 a.m.
16:42:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Instead of 9?
16:42:55 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know why she has 10 here.
16:42:57 I'll do it for nine.
16:43:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Any problem with noon?
16:43:03 >> Yes.
16:43:12 I'll served.
16:43:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was suggesting a working lunch
16:43:15 but --
16:43:19 Are we going to hold those meetings here?
16:43:21 My recommendation --
16:43:22 >>MARY MULHERN: We usually have them, now, we find a

16:43:26 room.
16:43:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: These budget meetings here in the
16:43:29 chambers so they can be televised.
16:43:32 >>MARY MULHERN: Tuesday, 9 a.m.
16:43:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You need to check and make sure that's
16:43:39 clear on the calendar.
16:43:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, it is clear?
16:43:45 The first meeting Tuesday, June 10th, 9 a.m.,
16:43:47 council chambers.
16:43:48 And then the second one, Tuesday, June 24th, do it
16:43:54 at 9 a.m. again.
16:43:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I won't be here but that's fine.
16:43:59 You can have it.
16:44:00 I won't be here.
16:44:01 >>MARY MULHERN: If you want to be here we can look at
16:44:05 another --
16:44:06 No, no, that's I'm one person.
16:44:08 That's fine.
16:44:13 >>MARY MULHERN: So that's a motion for that.
16:44:14 Both those dates.
16:44:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
16:44:17 (Motion carried)

16:44:19 So that takes care of your item that we have in terms
16:44:21 of the budget.
16:44:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Takes care of those, yeah.
16:44:25 The budget.
16:44:26 We talked about the budget advisory.
16:44:28 Then I had --
16:44:30 I was talking about moving the item to the back.
16:44:34 So that's why I was saying that takes care of your
16:44:36 item now.
16:44:36 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
16:44:37 And then I had one other piece of new business.
16:44:42 I would like to ask for a staff report from legal and
16:44:49 Parks Department and probably zoning to talk about a
16:44:56 policy for wet zonings and parks, and because there
16:45:02 are going to be a number of future times when we are
16:45:06 probably going to be asked to do this, that we could
16:45:08 maybe look at making the code a little bit more
16:45:14 amenable so we don't have to go through that painful
16:45:17 process.
16:45:18 I think part of the problem in the future, it doesn't
16:45:23 really reflect on that wet zoning we did for Ballast
16:45:26 Point, but in the other park what they really want is

16:45:29 to be able to have more of a special use, temporary
16:45:35 wet zoning.
16:45:36 Did you want to say something, Don?
16:45:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: He has his handcuffs ready.
16:45:49 >>MARY MULHERN: A staff report at our next council
16:45:51 meeting that's not totally booked up.
16:45:53 If you think the 19th we are already getting too
16:45:55 booked up we can go to August or something.
16:45:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: May I make a friendly suggestion?
16:46:01 I talked to Corrado about this issue right after
16:46:04 Ballast Point.
16:46:05 July 24th we have a workshop day that right now is
16:46:09 wide open.
16:46:10 I would love to see -- and what I suggested to
16:46:14 Santiago, I would lover to see them bring a proposed
16:46:17 policy to this council about this issue.
16:46:22 In other words, if you have a downtown park, you know,
16:46:24 that this is what they suggest, that if you have a
16:46:27 neighborhood park, this is what they suggest.
16:46:29 And then we can take their suggestions and we can go
16:46:32 from there.
16:46:34 But anyway --

16:46:37 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to hear from -- I don't want
16:46:40 parks to just tell us the policy.
16:46:42 We need to have input.
16:46:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My point is we have to start from
16:46:48 somewhere.
16:46:48 If they give us their proposed policy, we say we like
16:46:51 this, we like that.
16:46:54 We made it clear we didn't like their policy the other
16:46:56 day.
16:46:57 But I'm say field goal we tell them to start with
16:46:59 something we always can and always do modify that.
16:47:01 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to make sure -- that's
16:47:03 fine, make sure that that land use people, or zoning
16:47:06 people, are involved.
16:47:12 That's been a lot of the problems, the fact that the
16:47:17 park --
16:47:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, let the administration come
16:47:21 in and encompass all the departments.
16:47:23 July 25th workshop?
16:47:27 >> Because the budget and the present issue that you
16:47:30 use your workshop day to really focus in on the
16:47:33 budget.

16:47:33 You have got two scheduled now.
16:47:35 You are probably going to need another.
16:47:37 I would suggest that you take that July workshop date.
16:47:42 >>MARY MULHERN: That's what you suggested and that's
16:47:46 fine with me.
16:47:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No.
16:47:48 When do we get the budget?
16:47:51 >> August 4.
16:47:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We don't have a budget to work with
16:47:54 till August 4.
16:47:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Meet with the department head.
16:48:00 Isn't this what you did last year?
16:48:02 You had several meetings last year and we did it
16:48:04 across the street in the conference -- we do it on
16:48:09 workshop days here, and if you recall, if you don't
16:48:12 have a fourth member, staff will not show up.
16:48:15 You recall that, don't you?
16:48:18 So just pointing that out, by holding it here, and
16:48:22 council showing up, you have staff available and you
16:48:30 have it televised.
16:48:32 It's just a suggestion.
16:48:32 >>MARY MULHERN: It's fine.

16:48:34 I don't have the next meeting worked out that I can
16:48:37 say it will be on that day.
16:48:39 So why don't we -- how about if we set the park
16:48:43 discussion for a workshop on July 24th.
16:48:45 If it turns out we need it for the budget, we can
16:48:47 schedule that till later.
16:48:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
16:48:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
16:48:54 Opposed?
16:48:57 Okay.
16:48:59 >>MARY MULHERN: I think that's all my new business
16:49:01 unless Christina is still there and has something that
16:49:04 I forgot.
16:49:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You used up all our time so.
16:49:11 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Opened a new recreation facility
16:49:13 in New Tampa.
16:49:14 It is beautiful.
16:49:15 It really is.
16:49:17 I think it's one of the finest in the state.
16:49:19 Especially for gymnastics.
16:49:21 It's really, really a great location.
16:49:26 Shawn Harrison was there, and the mayor introduced

16:49:29 him.
16:49:29 It was really a beautiful facility.
16:49:31 It's really nice.
16:49:31 And I thank the mayor, and the recreation department
16:49:34 did a great job in putting it together.
16:49:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
16:49:40 New Tampa is well served by you.
16:49:41 Councilman Dingfelder.
16:49:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Congratulations to Shawn because I
16:49:46 know he pushed real hard for that center two. Things.
16:49:48 I'll start with the simple one.
16:49:50 My assistant Cindy is the animal lover and she wanted
16:49:54 to remind everybody that on Saturday, May 17th,
16:49:59 this Saturday at the hospitality center at 6 p.m. is
16:50:04 the 6th annual Tuxes and Tails event to benefit
16:50:09 the Humane Society of Tampa Bay.
16:50:10 So if you have any questions, feel free to call my
16:50:13 office about that.
16:50:13 It's a worthwhile event.
16:50:15 And a fun event.
16:50:16 Has lots of celebrities walking their dogs along the
16:50:19 runway.

16:50:21 And, council, I just want to bring up this issue real
16:50:27 quickly.
16:50:28 Did you realize that if a commercial building built
16:50:31 next to your residential, and they put up a cinder
16:50:34 block wall, they have to finish not only their side
16:50:37 but they have to finish your side.
16:50:39 They have to decorate it and paint both sides.
16:50:41 But here's a little anomaly in our code.
16:50:46 If a residence build behind your house and they put up
16:50:50 a stucco wall and they finish their side, they don't
16:50:52 have to finish your side.
16:50:54 They can leave it raw cinder block.
16:50:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Is that just stucco?
16:51:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER, that I didn't mean -- cinder block.
16:51:04 >>MARY MULHERN: But you have to do both sides or you
16:51:05 don't?
16:51:06 >> In a commercial residential they have to finish it.
16:51:09 I'm not sure it has to be stucco but they have to
16:51:11 finish it.
16:51:12 But the point is when you have
16:51:13 residential-residential, and the reason it came up is
16:51:16 this is exactly happening with a resident in South

16:51:19 Tampa.
16:51:19 She said they are building this big huge home with a
16:51:22 6-foot cinder block wall and the guy said, I'll finish
16:51:25 your side if you split the cost with me, which was
16:51:28 thousands of dollars to Spackle and paint it and she
16:51:33 didn't want to do it, she thought he had to do it but
16:51:35 he doesn't have to do it under the code.
16:51:37 And Charlie, now this I'm sure.
16:51:39 If you have a wood fence, you have to put the good
16:51:42 side to your neighbor.
16:51:43 So we have got this thing where the good side toward
16:51:46 the neighbor on the wood, but we really don't cover
16:51:49 that on the cinder block.
16:51:51 So anyway with, that said, in the next code amendment
16:51:54 cycle, I think we should address that.
16:51:56 And I'll just ask Cathy Coyle and her team to address
16:52:00 that as soon as possible and bring back an amendment
16:52:02 that would fit that.
16:52:05 Cat cattle I would like to add to that decorative
16:52:07 block.
16:52:08 If you have decorative blocks.
16:52:10 You can't stucco.

16:52:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm just saying whatever is the
16:52:14 appropriate language to just say it should be
16:52:16 finished.
16:52:17 You know, some type of finished treatment. Otherwise,
16:52:20 if you have raw cinder block, it's pretty nasty.
16:52:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
16:52:26 And I have a chain link fence.
16:52:28 I have the good side on my side.
16:52:30 [ Laughter ]
16:52:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And you insisted on it, right,
16:52:34 Charlie?
16:52:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I insisted on that.
16:52:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thanks to Judy for bringing that
16:52:44 up.
16:52:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have two things.
16:52:47 Ms. Miller left and asked me to say that Mr. Thomas
16:52:49 and Mr. Rann would be here for the heros award for
16:52:55 next Thursday on the 22nd.
16:52:57 The next thing is to talk about water.
16:52:59 We have gone from April 26th where we had
16:53:01 approximately 85 million gallons of water flowing at
16:53:05 the river, now we have 38 million gallons flowing in

16:53:08 the river.
16:53:09 So a decrease of about 47 million.
16:53:11 And that's not good.
16:53:12 So I'm asking people to conserve on the water.
16:53:15 And this is a serious thing.
16:53:18 I hope it starts to rain soon.
16:53:19 And that's all that I have today, Mr. Chairman.
16:53:27 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone)
16:53:29 We still have one day a week?
16:53:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I water my lawn with my neighbor's
16:53:35 hose.
16:53:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, Mr. Chairman, just to recall one
16:53:38 item.
16:53:39 4 was continued to June 5th at the request of Mrs.
16:53:44 Saul-Sena.
16:53:44 She also in her memo requested that council consider a
16:53:46 time certain.
16:53:47 That was also the issue that Mr. Terry Neal raised at
16:53:53 public comment stating that he was not able to attend
16:53:56 the morning and he would ask for the afternoon.
16:53:58 Did council want to contemplate setting that item,
16:54:02 number 4, for June 5th at a time certain?

16:54:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: How about 2:00 since we already have
16:54:11 wet zonings at 1:30?
16:54:13 >> And we might have an extra one today.
16:54:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: What is council's pleasure?
16:54:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 2:00.
16:54:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It may be resolved on the 22nd, the
16:54:24 whole issue.
16:54:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If it's going to be --
16:54:28 That's fine D.we get a second?
16:54:30 Okay.
16:54:30 It's been moved and seconded.
16:54:32 All in favor let it be known by Aye.
16:54:34 Opposes?
16:54:36 Any other business, council?
16:54:37 Thank you very much.
16:54:39 Yes, receive and file.
16:54:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry.
16:54:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
16:54:46 (Motion carried).
16:54:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The question from Mr. Miranda that you
16:54:51 received from Ms. Miller, is that something that's
16:54:53 already been set for next week?

16:54:55 Because I don't believe it has.
16:54:56 And if it is, it should be set for the morning.
16:55:01 Is it for next week?
16:55:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: For 5-22.
16:55:07 It's next Thursday, isn't it?
16:55:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Next Thursday, the 22nd, is a workshop
16:55:13 day.
16:55:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: She said she was going to check with
16:55:24 the chief, I thought, so he could be here so if she's
16:55:26 asking for that date, for the 22nd.
16:55:30 So we can do that at 9:00.
16:55:37 Okay, council, thank you very much for your patience.
16:55:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is there a motion and second on that?
16:55:43 >> So moved.
16:55:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A second?
16:55:46 >> Second.
16:55:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded to set for 9 a.m. on
16:55:49 the 22nd.
16:55:50 All in favor let it be known by Aye.
16:55:52 Opposes?
16:55:53 Thank you, council.
16:55:53 We had a very long day but thank you.

16:55:55 We now stand adjourned.
16:55:56 (City Council meeting adjourned at 4:56 p.m.)
16:56:31

TAMPA CITY COUNCIL

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