TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, May 22, 2008
9:00 a.m. Session
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09:04:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Good morning.
09:04:37 Tampa City Council will now come to order.
09:04:38 We will stand now.
09:04:40 I turn it over to councilman Joseph Caetano.
09:04:47 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Representing district 7.
09:04:49 Good morning.
09:04:50 This morning we have the pleasure of having Mr. Jim
09:04:52 crew, who is going to do our invocation.
09:04:55 Jim is an employee here at City Hall, and after that
09:04:58 we will stand for the pledge of allegiance.
09:05:07 >> Jim crew: Before we pray this morning I would like
09:05:10 us to observe a brief moment of silence for Memorial
09:05:13 Day for all that have given their lives in defense of
09:05:17 freedom and safety.
09:05:19 (moment of silence)
09:05:20 Greater love hath no man than this than a man would
09:05:27 lay down his life for his friends.
09:05:29 Father, we remember those this morning, members of our
09:05:31 Armed Forces, law enforcement, and firefighters who
09:05:34 have willingly made this great sacrifice for our
09:05:37 freedom and protection.
09:05:38 We thank you for those who still lay their lives on
09:05:40 the line daily and pray for their safety N.obedience
09:05:44 to your word we pray for all who are in authority over
09:05:47 us that we may lead quiet and peaceable lives in all
09:05:50 godliness and reverence.
09:05:52 Be with these your servants and grant them your wisdom
09:05:56 in every matter we hear.
09:05:58 These things we ask in your holy and precious name.
09:06:03 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:06:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:06:26 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:06:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:06:38 The chair will now yield to the honorable Gwen Miller
09:06:41 for presentations.
09:06:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Before I start, council members, I
09:06:56 would like to say this is the best day I have had
09:06:58 presenting commendations, to have someone who had
09:07:03 bravery that they did, to not even think about not
09:07:07 stopping but they stayed there until everything was
09:07:10 At this time I would like for the person to come up,
09:07:15 and that is Mr. Archie Thomas and Mr. Douglas Rand.
09:07:39 On the morning of May 5th while on duty in her
09:07:42 patrol car Tampa police officer TARA was in a head-on
09:07:52 As a result of the collision the officer's patrol car
09:07:55 burst into flames.
09:07:56 Moments before it did, officer Thomas they ran to her
09:08:08 They unhooked her seat belt.
09:08:12 Mr. Thomas stayed with the officer until other help
09:08:15 It is not often that an individual with disregard
09:08:19 gives of her own safety to help someone in need.
09:08:22 It is for this reason that Tampa City Council would
09:08:24 like to recognize both of these gentlemen with
09:08:29 And the first accommodation I would like to present to
09:08:31 you, Mr. Douglas, that Tampa City Council would like
09:08:33 to take this opportunity to thank you and commend you
09:08:37 for your heroic efforts, for your unselfish efforts.
09:08:52 For the best interest of the person in need.
09:08:54 Please know that it is citizens like you that we are
09:08:57 all proud to be called Tampans.
09:09:01 We wish you the best in all your personal and
09:09:05 professional endeavors.
09:09:20 Mr. Douglas, the Tampa City Council would like to
09:09:22 commend you and thank you for your act of selfless
09:09:28 Individuals such as you, for the recognition that for
09:09:31 the best interest of the person in need.
09:09:33 Please know that it is because of citizens like you
09:09:37 that we are all proud to be called Tampans.
09:09:40 City of Tampa wishes you the best in all your personal
09:09:43 and professional.
09:09:50 [ Applause ]
09:09:52 At this time, Chief Hogue will come forward.
09:09:59 >>CHIEF HOGUE: Thank you, council.
09:10:00 It's my pleasure to be here.
09:10:01 I would also like to recognize officer Terry Edwards,
09:10:06 sitting over here in the wheelchair.
09:10:08 She's the one that was banged up in that traffic
09:10:11 accident significantly.
09:10:14 It was a horrendous crash.
09:10:16 If you had seen it, if you had seen her car afterwards
09:10:18 you would wonder how she survived.
09:10:25 The heroic efforts of these two gentlemen really came
09:10:28 home to the Tampa Police Department because less than
09:10:30 a week before we had another police officer off-duty
09:10:33 killed in a traffic accident.
09:10:34 So just the thought of her being in a serious
09:10:37 accident, and what could have happened, was
09:10:42 particularly devastating to the police department and
09:10:46 but for the actions of these two gentlemen she might
09:10:49 not have survived that accident.
09:10:50 People don't realize it.
09:10:52 A lot of people don't realize it but a car is made out
09:10:55 of mostly what appears to be sheet metal but they burn
09:11:00 very, very fast and very completely and catch on fire.
09:11:04 People don't realize, one, that there's a lot of
09:11:07 material, plastic and things inside of a car that
09:11:10 burns readily and of course there's a tank full of 15
09:11:14 to 20 gallons of gas and that's what happened here.
09:11:17 On May 5th, TARA was driving in, coming to work in
09:11:23 her police car.
09:11:26 She's on MLK right around 27th Avenue, just a
09:11:30 regular day of work coming to work.
09:11:33 And this lady, who we think maybe was impaired, was
09:11:39 driving in the opposite direction, swerved across the
09:11:42 roadway, and struck her head on, with absolutely no
09:11:46 braking, no warning, no anything, right into her.
09:11:50 Of course, the car was a significant damage, the car
09:11:55 was smoking, it was actually on fire, and these two
09:12:00 gentlemen, Mr. Rand and Mr. Thomas, jumped out of
09:12:04 their cars, immediately stopped, jumped out of their
09:12:08 They had to pry the door open on the police car, it
09:12:12 was so mangled that they couldn't get the door open,
09:12:14 pulled her out, and got her off to the side of the
09:12:18 And within 20 to 30 seconds after that, the whole car
09:12:23 was engulfed in flames.
09:12:25 And it is a total loss.
09:12:27 I wish I had brought some of the photographs so you
09:12:29 could see the fire damage done to that police car.
09:12:32 It looks like a cinder at this point in time.
09:12:35 So we do want to recognize both Mr. Rand and Mr.
09:12:40 Thomas for their act of heroism and bravery and
09:12:47 disregarding their own safety.
09:12:49 In the police business this doesn't happen too much.
09:12:51 Police are actually in the business of helping other
09:12:53 people, not having people help us.
09:12:56 But about six months ago, we made a new award after
09:13:07 officer Armeo was shot, and rendered assistance to
09:13:14 him, and we call it the citizens award of valor
09:13:21 citation, and that's for a citizen who not only helps
09:13:23 the police officer, but actually endangers their own
09:13:28 life in an effort to help a police officer.
09:13:30 And we are proud today to make these two gentlemen,
09:13:36 Mr. Thomas and Mr. Rand, the second recipients of that
09:13:42 award that we have given out here at the Tampa Police
09:13:45 But first I would like to present them both with a
09:13:47 Mr. Rand, for your active -- act of outstanding
09:13:54 bravery with disregard for your own safety while
09:13:56 assisting an officer in distress, I would like to
09:13:59 present with you this plaque.
09:14:00 [ Applause ]
09:14:10 And Mr. Thomas, for your act of outstanding bravery
09:14:15 without regard for your own safety while assisting an
09:14:18 officer in distress, I would like to present this to
09:14:21 you, too.
09:14:23 [ Applause ]
09:14:23 Now I would like to present each one of these
09:14:25 gentlemen with our award of valor that we give to
09:14:30 This is an award that we are not going to lightly give
09:14:35 We are giving out four of them in a year.
09:14:37 But I think this will be an unusual year.
09:14:40 I think many years will go by that this never occurs.
09:14:44 So this is a very prestigious award as far as the
09:14:47 Tampa Police Department is concerned.
09:14:48 So I would like to present you these.
09:15:00 [ Applause ]
09:15:03 And in closing, I would like to say that we at the
09:15:09 police department, but I think the citizens in
09:15:10 general, owe a great debt of gratitude to these two
09:15:14 gentlemen, because there is a distinct possibility had
09:15:18 they not jumped out of their cars, disregarded that
09:15:20 car that was on fire, snatched open that door, you
09:15:23 know, unbuckled TARA from the car, she couldn't even
09:15:28 get herself out, her legs broken, her arms broken, she
09:15:31 had some significant facial injuries from hitting --
09:15:35 sustained during the crash, was unable to even push
09:15:39 herself out of the car.
09:15:40 They pulled her from that car and got her to safety,
09:15:43 that she would not be sitting here today in that
09:15:47 So we owe a debt of gratitude to these gentlemen for
09:15:51 their selfless actions.
09:15:53 Thanks again.
09:15:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Thomas and Mr. Rand, did you want
09:16:02 to say anything?
09:16:03 >> I just want to say thank you.
09:16:13 This happened to be where I was at the right time.
09:16:15 >> Thank you for your bravery.
09:16:19 >> Thank you.
09:16:22 I want to say something to Mrs. Evers.
09:16:28 You know, how calm you kept me, if you wouldn't have
09:16:32 stayed calm, I probably wouldn't have myself.
09:16:36 And I just want to know you're strong.
09:16:42 [ Applause ]
09:16:55 >> I just want to tell everybody thank you.
09:16:58 And as a citizen, the police department is out to save
09:17:02 our lives.
09:17:03 It was nice to repay the favor.
09:17:06 Thank you.
09:17:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, gentlemen, for your heroic
09:17:39 Chief, thank you again for all the work that you do
09:17:41 for all the officers here in Tampa, Florida.
09:17:48 Thank you.
09:18:09 Council, this morning, we have several workshops
09:18:11 that's scheduled.
09:18:16 If you all could keep the noise down, we are still in
09:18:19 Hold your conversation down.
09:18:20 We are still in session.
09:18:22 Item 2, we have the comp plan presentation this
09:19:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Because they have asked for a
09:19:09 continuance on item 6 and I suggest we give them the
09:19:14 full hour.
09:19:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Well, they are going to have that
09:19:17 But I need to -- wait till we get the podium noise
09:19:23 I need council to be aware, actually, you may go over
09:19:28 the time that's been allocated and this is a very
09:19:31 important issue.
09:19:32 And so on discussion and review, we are looking
09:19:36 perhaps at about an hour and a half.
09:19:40 So I want to announce that so people will know we are
09:19:42 probably going to go beyond the time that's been
09:19:44 allocated here, okay?
09:19:46 >>TERRY CULLEN: I'm with the Planning Commission
09:19:53 A presentation -- and that was very touching -- and
09:19:57 really underscores who we are.
09:19:58 >> Move to open the workshop.
09:20:02 >> So moved.
09:20:03 >> Second.
09:20:03 (Motion carried).
09:20:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go ahead.
09:20:07 >>TERRY CULLEN: The presentation that you just had
09:20:09 really underscores what the city is all about.
09:20:13 We're talking about the Tampa comprehensive plan in
09:20:15 this workshop.
09:20:20 This has been almost five years in the making.
09:20:22 And when we started this, we had a workshop with Tampa
09:20:25 City Council, and we asked you what you loved about
09:20:30 the City of Tampa, and one of the things that was
09:20:32 mentioned was mentioned by councilwoman Gwen Miller
09:20:37 and the first thing she said is this is a friendly and
09:20:40 caring city, and that is so true.
09:20:42 And we hope we carried some of that through into the
09:20:45 comp plan update.
09:20:47 For a viewing audience that's the blueprint that we
09:20:50 are required to develop, to chart Tampa's future for
09:20:53 about the next 20 years.
09:20:55 Today's workshop is a workshop that's part of a
09:21:00 continuing series that Tampa City Council has been
09:21:05 The last workshop and the next one prior to council
09:21:09 going into public hearing is scheduled for June
09:21:12 At this point the Planning Commission on May 12th
09:21:15 had a public hearing and they approved the
09:21:19 comprehensive plan unanimously and is recommending
09:21:23 that council do the same.
09:21:24 And you will see that when you have your transmittal
09:21:27 public hearing on June 26th.
09:21:31 That public hearing will be for the purposes of
09:21:33 sending it up to the state for a three-month review.
09:21:37 And when it comes back, council will hold adoption
09:21:40 public hearings in the fall.
09:21:43 This morning's workshop is exclusively devoted to the
09:21:47 transportation concurrency exception area.
09:21:50 You are going to get a presentation on that in just a
09:21:52 It is a mouthful.
09:21:54 It is key -- it is one of the key components to the
09:21:58 mobility chapter of the comprehensive plan.
09:22:04 The City of Tampa retained a consultant, Tyndall
09:22:09 Oliver, to assist in policy and background information
09:22:12 to support the transportation concurrency exception
09:22:16 They have been working with the city for the past 18
09:22:19 months, and there has been a lot of close
09:22:22 collaboration between the Planning Commission staff
09:22:25 and the city staff and the consultant to develop
09:22:29 recommendations for this comprehensive plan update.
09:22:32 And they are going to share some of that with you this
09:22:35 So I wanted to say go good morning, sit back, take a
09:22:38 look at what we have got, for our viewing audience, if
09:22:41 you do want to follow along, and you have access to a
09:22:44 computer, the web site is plan 2025.org.
09:22:50 It's exclusively devoted to the Tampa comprehensive
09:22:54 You can pull up chapter 6 which is the mobility
09:22:57 element and you will find the information that we will
09:22:59 be talking about.
09:23:02 At this point I am going to turn the floor over to Mr.
09:23:04 Randy Goers of the City of Tampa who has some
09:23:07 additional remarks and then you will get a
09:23:09 presentation on the Tampa transportation concurrency
09:23:12 exception area.
09:23:13 Thank you.
09:23:18 Gores goers growth management development services
09:23:21 The presentation that you are going to have this
09:23:22 morning will be a brief presentation that will allow
09:23:25 quite a bit of time for questions, and hopefully our
09:23:29 consultant in the city and the Planning Commission
09:23:30 staff will be able to answer those questions.
09:23:33 The transportation concurrency exception area, that
09:23:35 portion of the plan is really a very small portion of
09:23:37 the comprehensive plan.
09:23:39 It represents only about 20, 30 policies, of the
09:23:44 policies around 1400 policies.
09:23:46 Yet it's a very important part of the comprehensive
09:23:49 But I wanted to at least tell you, to understand that
09:23:55 the transportation concurrency exception area is part
09:23:57 of an overall strategy, it's one part.
09:24:00 So today you are going to be seeing primarily that
09:24:02 part of the transportation concurrency exception area
09:24:05 and it really is how the city will meet the
09:24:07 requirements of state law as it relates to
09:24:09 transportation concurrency.
09:24:11 And I want to let you know that there are quite a bit
09:24:14 more other policy that is are related to it.
09:24:16 Some of the discussions, they may be slightly out of
09:24:20 It might be new to you because you. Been able to read
09:24:22 the entire plan, or see how it all fits in together,
09:24:26 and we understand that, and we'll be available for any
09:24:29 We also -- the department is making available or will
09:24:32 contact each of you for a follow-up briefing, where we
09:24:36 can answer any questions that come out of today's
09:24:38 discussion, and maybe any other questions you might
09:24:42 have from the comprehensive plan.
09:24:44 It is our intent by June 26th that any questions
09:24:47 that you have on the comprehensive plan either the
09:24:53 concurrency area or policies that we do our best to
09:24:56 answer those questions so on that evening you will be
09:24:58 fully informed to the best that you can be on the
09:25:01 content of the comprehensive plan.
09:25:02 So with that, I will bring up -- ask representatives
09:25:07 from Tyndall Oliver.
09:25:08 They have been working with us on a variety of
09:25:10 different transportation issues over the last couple
09:25:12 of years.
09:25:13 I think you may remember the presentation they did on
09:25:15 the south Gandy, Westshore project a couple of years
09:25:20 So they are very familiar with the city's
09:25:22 transportation network and its needs and are also very
09:25:25 familiar with not only how the city is addressing
09:25:27 concurrency but how other cities are addressing
09:25:30 So with that I'll bring up Tyndall Oliver.
09:25:42 Bill Oliver is over here to help answer questions if
09:25:45 we need to.
09:25:47 We are here to talk about the comprehensive plan
09:25:55 update, and also the TCA update.
09:26:00 TCEA is transportation concurrency exception area, and
09:26:04 it's something that the city has had in place
09:26:06 basically the entire city Fletcher Avenue since 1998.
09:26:13 TCEA allows the city to allow development to occur
09:26:16 without roadway facilities necessary to maintain the
09:26:20 adopted service standard in place at the time
09:26:23 concurrent with development. It's not the city -- the
09:26:23 city can't invest in its roadway network.
09:26:29 It's just that it doesn't have to be that precise time
09:26:31 and linkage.
09:26:32 As part of the Gandy study, as part of the EAR update
09:26:36 that we worked on a few years ago, there started to be
09:26:40 some cracks in the TCEA being administered, so it's
09:26:45 part of the TCEA update which is part of that, we try
09:26:48 to address in these issues.
09:27:04 There is the basic objectives of the TCEA which is to
09:27:07 manage growth, and this is to address neighborhood
09:27:09 concerns, and then also to bring in a focused growth
09:27:13 around the planned transit system and emergent transit
09:27:17 system, and the existing transit system, and also
09:27:19 consistency with the urbanization.
09:27:23 As part of the overall process, the urbanization has
09:27:26 been developed for the city, business centers, dynamic
09:27:31 areas, and so we hope to have the TCEA, how we deal
09:27:35 with development from a transportation standpoint,
09:27:37 reflect that vision as well, and be consistent with
09:27:41 Also there are statutory requirements.
09:27:43 In 2005, the state legislature introduced Senate bill
09:27:48 360 which changed some of the basic requirements for
09:27:52 Key among those is the relationship between the TCEA,
09:27:56 land development, and the urban form of land
09:27:59 development so it's not enough for the state to say
09:28:10 well we are going to do all these wonderful things but
09:28:12 not reflect it on our comp plan.
09:28:15 There needs to be some measures to talk about how we
09:28:19 provide it within the exception area.
09:28:21 And then also a linkage between land use and the
09:28:26 purpose of the exception.
09:28:27 So if it looks like a suburb and talks like a suburb
09:28:35 why do you want to treat it like an urban area?
09:28:38 Therefore TCEA makes sense.
09:28:40 So we are trying to do both of those.
09:28:41 First and foremost there are issues brought up within
09:28:44 the city.
09:28:47 How is the TCEA being administered, what's going on?
09:28:50 Also the statutory requirements.
09:28:52 Fortunately, by addressing the statutory aspects, we
09:28:56 also find a way to take care of the local concerns and
09:28:59 vice versa.
09:29:00 So we think we can marry the two and do something that
09:29:03 we are not just responding to external requirements
09:29:05 but really doing something that benefits the city in
09:29:07 providing some guidance.
09:29:09 The approach to this is to define geographic areas
09:29:12 within the TCEA.
09:29:14 Right now, the way it's been set up, the
09:29:20 administration is the same throughout.
09:29:22 Part of the concept is to define the geographic areas
09:29:27 And then basically exempt development from the city's
09:29:32 transportation requirement consistent with the
09:29:33 policies within the geographic areas.
09:29:35 So that might apply differently depending on where you
09:29:38 are in the city.
09:29:38 And we'll talk about that in a minute.
09:29:41 Also we are trying to balance comprehensive plan
09:29:44 One big part of the comprehensive plan all the way
09:29:48 back to the growth management act of 1985 is
09:29:50 concurrency, level of service standards, delivering
09:29:54 public facilities but there are also other
09:29:59 comprehensive plan objectives.
09:30:00 Urban in-fill, redevelopment, all these things.
09:30:04 And the TCEA is one of the ways these goals come into
09:30:11 So we are talking a balancing act.
09:30:13 And that's some of the reasons for the TCEA back in
09:30:16 Also you have balancing investments the cities made
09:30:19 and other public infrastructure.
09:30:20 We have potable water facilities, stormwater, parking,
09:30:27 all of these public investments, and art centers,
09:30:31 convention centers, city hall, all these public
09:30:37 They have all been put in place.
09:30:40 If transportation isn't you have to snuff is that
09:30:42 enough reason to let other capacities go?
09:30:45 That was part of the original purpose for the TCEA as
09:30:48 And then finally, in 1998 there was a Florida
09:30:55 interstate highway system which was the roadways from
09:30:58 the state road system.
09:30:59 And although the city considered a level service
09:31:02 standard on the local roads, it was not able to
09:31:05 unilaterally set the standard on these.
09:31:08 Development impacts on these roadways could have put
09:31:10 the city in position where comprehensive plan
09:31:13 amendment and things like that, because the city then
09:31:16 has control.
09:31:19 So the TCEA is a way to continue to approve
09:31:22 development, in spite of potential impacts on
09:31:25 interstate highway system such as I-275, I-4, Dale
09:31:28 Mabry Highway.
09:31:30 The Florida interstate highway system has been
09:31:33 modified, and subcomponent called the strategic
09:31:37 intermodal system, and that's still an issue.
09:31:40 SIS, principally interstate highways, Gandy Boulevard
09:31:44 and a little bit of State Road 60, the city can't
09:31:47 arbitrarily set a level of service standard on that.
09:31:52 It's up to state.
09:31:54 So for an exemption area, there is a potential where
09:31:59 we come into contact with that level service standard,
09:32:02 and have some external factors controlling what we do
09:32:05 with our land use.
09:32:09 All right.
09:32:09 So the principal difference and the questions come up
09:32:13 with people from our staff, what's happening with the
09:32:16 TCEA, what's it going to do?
09:32:19 It's a two part answer.
09:32:20 First part is geographically the TCEA is going to --
09:32:24 this large area of the city, everything south of
09:32:26 Fletcher Avenue, and the geographic area, it meets the
09:32:30 statutory requirements, and it can be preserved as the
09:32:34 name TCEA.
09:32:35 But within that, there are going to be subarea
09:32:39 districts, proposed plan policies call for that.
09:32:42 And some area directs will be administered
09:32:46 So I guess with the -- it can be constrained to a
09:32:54 narrow area.
09:32:55 In other parts the comprehensive plan policies will
09:32:57 enable the city to implement code which more closely
09:33:01 manages the transportation impacts.
09:33:04 And that is the principal policy concept being put
09:33:08 forward with this plan update, as when look outward to
09:33:13 the state and to other authorities, we have a TCEA
09:33:17 over a major area of the city, but inwardly as when
09:33:20 move through ourselves we have different areas that
09:33:24 deal with transportation.
09:33:25 So the subareas will look at the magnitude of the
09:33:31 project, the magnitude of the project, the downtown
09:33:34 area, very large projects, maybe come in without
09:33:37 looking at roadway concurrency issues.
09:33:39 And, also, there's a relationship to the planned mass
09:33:43 transit system.
09:33:44 Remember I said at the outset the statutory
09:33:47 requirements make you show a relationship between
09:33:49 growth, your urban forum and planning for that.
09:33:53 So we felt that besides the city's existence of man's
09:33:57 transit, this was a good opportunity to create a
09:33:59 linkage to the planned policies so that we reflect the
09:34:04 transit plan as part of the way we look at development
09:34:06 can encourage growth in these areas of transit and
09:34:10 most likely to have enhanced transit service in the
09:34:13 future, and really create that relationship so that we
09:34:17 are walking a line as well as talking the talk.
09:34:21 Finally urban form standards.
09:34:23 The city architectural review board, we are in the
09:34:26 process of the Seminole Heights area where I live of
09:34:28 looking at your ban form overlay zoning, which I see
09:34:33 as a very positive thing, side bar.
09:34:36 As the city adopts the urban standards many, adopt
09:34:42 overlay as an optional zoning.
09:34:44 So the idea is if you want to build any, normally you
09:34:47 put in zoning, you have that right.
09:34:48 But if you want to build on the form-based code, which
09:34:56 maybe gives you some bonus density, then that's your
09:35:00 The same way as the city adopts these types of
09:35:02 requirements, they can be any manner of Land
09:35:07 Development Code.
09:35:09 If the city doesn't feel comfortable making that a
09:35:11 mandatory requirement, they can use the degree of
09:35:14 exemption from transportation mitigation as an
09:35:17 incentive to encourage development to build rather
09:35:20 than the normal Euclidean form of zoning.
09:35:25 So I talked about the proposed policies introduced the
09:35:30 concept of subdistricts for administration in the TCA.
09:35:34 And we tried to base these as close as possible on the
09:35:37 land use vision for their comprehensive plan, so want
09:35:41 to be consistent with their overall plan vision.
09:35:44 Hopefully most of you have seen the maps, they talk
09:35:46 about the heritage district, the Tampa Westshore
09:35:48 district, the university area, and the north side,
09:35:51 south side areas.
09:35:52 There's also mention of transit corridor villages or
09:35:56 mixed use corridor villages.
09:35:58 So we attempted to stay within the framework.
09:36:00 This is just a brief map depicting that.
09:36:03 The coding on the map has a meaning, related to the
09:36:06 degree of scrutiny that the city may choose to
09:36:09 implement in Land Development Code on transportation
09:36:13 studies and mitigation requirements.
09:36:15 So you see the area in red is the university north
09:36:19 district which technically is not part of the TCEA
09:36:22 although much is controlled by preexisting development
09:36:25 The orange areas districts as defined by the land use
09:36:30 vision map, the yellow area is sort of outside of some
09:36:36 core business owners, but within the dynamic part of
09:36:40 the city, the heritage district, part of the
09:36:41 university district, and then the green areas, the
09:36:45 light green areas, the Westshore DRI, University of
09:36:48 South Florida campus, and then the CRA areas around
09:36:53 the downtown, the Ybor CRA, the Heights, Central Park
09:36:57 Village, and also the Port Authority properties.
09:37:00 And then finally the dark green is basically the
09:37:03 downtown, so there are the two downtown CRAs and the
09:37:09 Channel District CRA, one of the most intense
09:37:11 developments, and willing to put some together.
09:37:18 So you have the downtown district.
09:37:20 It's already got an area-wide DRI.
09:37:22 And also it has the best network, the best transit
09:37:28 service, it has very massive roadway investments in
09:37:32 terms of the Crosstown expressway and interstate
09:37:35 So not only is it the area where from a policy
09:37:38 standpoint, we can be very high up in our buildings,
09:37:44 CRAs, TIF districts, but also there's the
09:37:46 transportation infrastructure in place to support
09:37:50 Then you have that second tier, which in some respects
09:37:53 may be very much like the first, and that's up to the
09:37:58 ordinance process to follow exactly how we
09:38:00 You have the greater downtown area.
09:38:01 Right now we define that as CRAs.
09:38:04 That's something that is for you all to think about in
09:38:06 the coming weeks.
09:38:08 Are these the right lines?
09:38:12 The concept to apply to a slightly different area.
09:38:15 But here when want to be fairly liberal with the way
09:38:17 that when deal with roadway impacts.
09:38:19 We have the streetcar in the downtown area.
09:38:23 Also transit service and the tight grid exists.
09:38:27 The Westshore area DRI is a DRI in some respects.
09:38:30 It's already zoned for concurrency.
09:38:32 Furthermore, we really want to encourage development.
09:38:37 This is business center, financing, we want to have
09:38:41 that happen.
09:38:41 Then finally the USF campus. That has a master plan
09:38:45 for transportation.
09:38:45 It's one of the driving factors in our economy.
09:38:49 We certainly don't want development on the USF campus
09:38:51 to be held up.
09:38:52 So that's another area where we would be more liberal.
09:38:56 Then there's the remainder.
09:38:57 This is the area that's been categorized as the
09:39:00 dynamic area of the city, a downtown heritage
09:39:03 The university district.
09:39:05 And the remainder of the Tampa international Westshore
09:39:09 This is an area where we recognize that growth in the
09:39:12 core economic centers is going to impact these areas.
09:39:15 So regardless of whether we choose to grow in these
09:39:19 areas are not, they are going to have traffic issues,
09:39:22 in part from regional traffic moving back and forth
09:39:24 through the city, Hillsborough Avenue, for example,
09:39:26 has a tremendous amount of traffic and impact on the
09:39:32 Also, to continue to grow in the core areas, these
09:39:37 areas are impacted so the choice for the city is do
09:39:40 you also want to allow growth within these areas, and,
09:39:43 if so, can we do that in such a way that's
09:39:45 responsible, relates to the transit corridors, along
09:39:50 the areas to support the transit corridors which
09:39:52 connect and link the primary business centers?
09:39:55 Finally, the stability areas in north side and south
09:40:01 These are areas where the citizens of the city said,
09:40:05 now what?
09:40:06 This is sort of the suburban part of the city, we kind
09:40:08 of like it the way it is.
09:40:11 In some respects, less cut-through traffic.
09:40:19 And this is a part of the city where the comp plan
09:40:23 policies allow to be more concerned with how they deal
09:40:27 with development review and transportation.
09:40:28 Then of course there's university north district.
09:40:30 This is sort of an exception.
09:40:32 We would like to say the set-up is this is concurrency
09:40:36 and in point in fact a lot is existing DRI, and this
09:40:46 is not where we get really tough with you but it's a
09:40:48 separate part and dealt with separately.
09:40:50 Let me see if I can illustrate a little bit
09:40:55 It sort of the idea, in planning we had the idea that
09:40:58 you had the urban core, moving into the suburbs and
09:41:02 eventually the rural areas.
09:41:06 We want to demonstrate how the policies are set up to
09:41:09 enable the city to write code in the coming months.
09:41:12 Moving from the downtown core through the
09:41:16 redevelopment areas and stable neighborhoods and
09:41:20 outside the TCEA, we would see the level of roadway
09:41:24 mitigation requirements, and the degree of detail and
09:41:28 the traffic study to increase traffic network.
09:41:30 So by a minimum all development is required to be
09:41:34 consistent with the plan, meet the urban form
09:41:37 standards as they apply, and also deal with health,
09:41:40 safety and welfare.
09:41:42 For example, you are not going to have the driveway
09:41:45 that backs up traffic but completely object lit rates
09:41:49 for the intersection.
09:41:50 So we talk about roadway mitigation requirement.
09:41:53 Worry talking about impact that are removed from the
09:41:55 site it, downstream impact, intersections in roadway
09:41:59 It's important to demonstrate those two, each in the
09:42:01 context of the TCEA as it operates now.
09:42:03 City reserve it is right to talk to a developer about
09:42:06 how they operationally affect their immediate site and
09:42:09 even the adjacent intersections.
09:42:10 We are talking about system-wide impacts at this
09:42:13 Also, all development regardless of where it falls in
09:42:16 this will be required to pay a standard assessment.
09:42:20 And the current lexicon, the transportation impact
09:42:23 fee, proposes before talks about -- that can be used
09:42:31 for all modes of transportation, not strictly
09:42:33 roadways, so our terminology in the plan so we don't
09:42:36 have to change it.
09:42:37 The idea is no matter what you do you deal with your
09:42:39 site impacts and you pay your fee.
09:42:41 And that's a given.
09:42:43 And moving off from that, we have the highest
09:42:46 potential for exemption.
09:42:47 And we are trying to change the language from you go
09:42:50 within those geographic areas, depending on --
09:42:55 probably the degree of exemption so trying not to make
09:42:59 the exemption the absolutely thing than happens.
09:43:06 For example, if you adopted forms in the downtown and
09:43:08 the developer chose to build a, you know, single story
09:43:11 Wal-Mart with a huge parking lot, it may not be any
09:43:17 other big box type of score.
09:43:19 That's the reason you in most cases you probably would
09:43:22 be and dare I say probably not use for downtown real
09:43:27 Moving outward in the redevelopment area, the greater
09:43:29 downtown area, Westshore wide DRI, University of South
09:43:33 Florida area, there, again consistent with urban, may
09:43:39 be applied, but also served by transit infrastructure.
09:43:43 Doesn't necessarily have to northbound place today.
09:43:45 It may not even be in the five year plan but there
09:43:48 needs to be public understanding, and agencies are
09:43:56 kind of pushing towards, that there will be mass
09:43:58 transit here one day.
09:43:59 By mass transit we don't necessarily mean a bus route
09:44:03 that operates once every hour for the middle of the
09:44:05 We mean the DRT style corridors, or hopefully some
09:44:11 form of rail transit.
09:44:12 And so it's a 15 or 20 minute headways, and there are
09:44:16 some quantitative measures to talk about when transit
09:44:20 becomes convenient for people that have a choice.
09:44:23 So that's the idea in these areas to be exempt from
09:44:26 concurrency, the city, Hart, county, TBARTA, need to
09:44:30 work together to show a transit plan that down the
09:44:33 road is coming.
09:44:34 And then also there may be in terms of the health,
09:44:37 safety and welfare, you may extend the next signalized
09:44:47 intersection, still not making system wide issues but
09:44:49 certainly don't want to cause complete gridlock
09:44:51 associated with that site.
09:44:55 Then moving out into the neighborhood areas, there,
09:45:00 again consistent with urban standards, small projects
09:45:03 will be exempt from concurrency, and then what we mean
09:45:07 by small projects, most all concurrency management
09:45:11 systems have de~minimis, and those vary in some
09:45:14 jurisdictions, like Drew Park and others, that a small
09:45:20 complex, so the city needs to find its comfort level
09:45:23 with that and that's something we need to work out
09:45:25 moving forward.
09:45:26 Projects that are not de~minimis would then be
09:45:29 required to look at proportionate fair share.
09:45:34 Concurrency is maintain ago level service standard of
09:45:37 the time the development is in place.
09:45:40 Now worry talking about sort of putting back what you
09:45:42 take out of the system being more flexible about how
09:45:48 that is done, generally a -- and this is something the
09:45:53 city does now with a large project component, a very
09:45:57 large project that comes in from a rezoning standpoint
09:46:00 get looked at in this respect.
09:46:01 What we are talking about is the stability areas
09:46:04 moving that threshold down to smaller projects and
09:46:06 also commercial site plans, not strictly rezonings.
09:46:10 Part of that is tying in when the traffic engineer
09:46:12 goes and says, these are your impacts.
09:46:15 We put together a package to mitigate those.
09:46:18 It's not talking about taking some component of that
09:46:20 package and reflecting that in the plan.
09:46:23 So it's not so much, yeah, we took your money, but we
09:46:27 took your money and we are going to do this with it.
09:46:30 If we don't do this with it, we are going to get in
09:46:32 front of the public and amend it.
09:46:34 So you know, this is a much better idea and we are
09:46:39 going to do this instead and be very public about it.
09:46:44 Another big part, I missed because of the subtext
09:46:47 there, but the concept that neighborhood traffic
09:46:50 When we can't go in and fix the problems because we
09:46:57 have incredible -- we can't actually make the roadway
09:47:00 function back to the service standard, everyone when
09:47:02 we do something sort of next to it, on the side of it,
09:47:06 or maybe there's nothing really great to do, we know
09:47:08 that we are going to have traffic, and want to try to
09:47:11 find a relief valve through the neighbors and seek
09:47:16 So the city has a neighborhood traffic calming
09:47:19 program, and have more requests than we can fill from
09:47:22 a budget standpoint.
09:47:24 So the concept is when we can't go out and actually
09:47:27 fix the roadway system, can we at least treat the
09:47:30 And I don't necessarily mean speed tables on every
09:47:33 local street.
09:47:34 I mean putting in sidewalks, streetlighting, round
09:47:40 busy, Morris Avenue, that's sort of way picture in
09:47:46 The idea if we know that this development is going to
09:47:48 create neighborhood traffic intrusion, at the same
09:47:51 time, the development is otherwise consistent with the
09:47:54 plan, we like this development, we think it's good for
09:47:56 the economy and good for the neighborhood in general,
09:47:59 then can we treat the symptoms, in a systematic and
09:48:05 uniform way?
09:48:06 Finally, outside the TC eh, university north district,
09:48:09 not the best example, but there's more emphasis on
09:48:15 adopting the standard rather than what you take out.
09:48:20 But again mostly not a great juxtaposition.
09:48:31 The comprehensive plan establishes subarea,
09:48:35 geography -- and that's going to be transmitted on the
09:48:40 28th, I guess.
09:48:43 Either way, it's pretty good.
09:48:47 That goes up to the state.
09:48:49 There's a review process.
09:48:50 About six months later, in December the city is
09:48:54 looking to adopt that plan formally.
09:48:56 Then there's a process of implementing it through Land
09:48:58 Development Code.
09:48:59 So it's that process with specific requirements for
09:49:01 the subdistricts to be worked out, based on the
09:49:05 concepts developed within the plan policy.
09:49:07 So the plan sets up a framework and some guidelines,
09:49:10 and more importantly enables the city to revise its
09:49:15 code while being consistent with the plan.
09:49:17 The plan itself does not set de~minimis thresholds or
09:49:21 traffic studies or things of that nature.
09:49:24 That will be worked out in a more detailed level.
09:49:26 That's the end of my presentation.
09:49:27 I think we would all be happy to entertain any
09:49:30 questions you may have.
09:49:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Saul-Sena.
09:49:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Interesting presentation.
09:49:35 A couple of questions.
09:49:36 Number one, why is Davis Island considered dynamic
09:49:44 The neighborhood has already adopted a neighborhood
09:49:46 plan that's very committed to basically keeping the
09:49:48 status quo, and it seems to me to be the epitome of a
09:49:52 stable neighborhood.
09:49:53 It's got a plan.
09:49:54 It involves the citizens.
09:49:56 They waited on that.
09:49:59 They very vociferously do not want additional density.
09:50:04 Why did you name it dynamic rather than stable?
09:50:07 >>TERRY CULLEN: Planning Commission staff.
09:50:09 It is more a label than anything else
09:50:15 When you take it in context with the balance of the
09:50:17 plan, Davis islands is an urban village, and the
09:50:23 stated public policy that urban villages will develop
09:50:27 in a manner consistent with the plans that were
09:50:28 adopted for them.
09:50:30 And as part of the dynamic area we are talking about,
09:50:33 I think the label is applied that way because within
09:50:37 the heritage district, within the Westshore district,
09:50:39 and USF district, there are business centers that are
09:50:43 huge economic engines that are potentially creating
09:50:48 transportation issues in the areas around them.
09:50:52 So it's called dynamic in-fill because of that issue,
09:50:57 the dynamics of the growth that are happening within
09:50:59 the economic engine.
09:51:01 When you get out to the north side and the south side,
09:51:03 those are more predominantly single family detached.
09:51:07 I understand what you are saying about the label.
09:51:08 But that's the explanation, that we are not
09:51:13 recommending any changes to those neighborhoods.
09:51:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, I have to tell you, you are
09:51:16 not recommending changes, then why not call it stable?
09:51:24 >>> Take a look at it.
09:51:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to make a motion that
09:51:27 you take a look at it because I heard from a number of
09:51:30 Davis Island residents who heard you are working on
09:51:33 the neighborhood plan that feel they put all their
09:51:36 energy into this clearly defined and what they want,
09:51:39 and that is what they want.
09:51:41 They want that their plan recognizes as a stable
09:51:45 neighborhood, without increasing the density, without
09:51:48 making virtually any land use changes.
09:51:52 >>> I can't speak to the overall land use aspects, the
09:51:55 designation but I would like to add, and include this
09:51:57 in the presentation, because I don't want to get too
09:52:00 involved in details.
09:52:01 But a component of the plan within that dynamic label,
09:52:05 the geographic area, an important component from
09:52:08 transportation and TCEA standpoint is recognition.
09:52:11 Mixed use corridor villages.
09:52:14 And so the way the plan is established, like Florida
09:52:19 Avenue to Nebraska Avenue, Kennedy --
09:52:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And Davis Boulevard is not in
09:52:25 that --
09:52:25 >>> It's not.
09:52:26 It's not.
09:52:27 And I guess what I would like to point out just in
09:52:29 general about the dynamic area, not specifically Davis
09:52:33 Boulevard, is even within that area there's a degree
09:52:35 of differentiation, where development along the exact
09:52:40 planned transit routes would look -- look at an
09:52:46 earlier -- I'm sorry, let me say it differently.
09:52:52 Development away from the transit routes, the way the
09:52:55 planned policies are set up, that development is not
09:52:58 immediately served by the transit routes, would
09:53:00 probably need to see that the transit service routes
09:53:04 are within the short term capital plan.
09:53:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm saying we have issues all over
09:53:08 the city.
09:53:09 This is one of the most stable, clearly-planned
09:53:12 neighborhoods, because it was planned originally.
09:53:15 And I'm just saying that I think it should be
09:53:18 recognized as a stable area and it will make a lot of
09:53:21 people happy, it will keep a lot of people from
09:53:23 pulling their hair out at the public meeting we are
09:53:25 having on the 26th, and that's why I am making
09:53:28 that request.
09:53:28 I understand what you are saying.
09:53:30 But I'm saying these others are apples and pears and
09:53:36 these are manage goes, and it's a micro version.
09:53:40 It's not equal to the other roads you mentioned.
09:53:42 >> We'll take a look at trying to find a label,
09:53:44 relabel it.
09:53:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A label that would make the
09:53:47 residents happy and stable.
09:53:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
09:53:57 >> Yes.
09:53:57 But let on the people go if they want to. This wasn't
09:54:00 my original question but I think Linda brought up you
09:54:01 are not just going to hear from Davis Island, you are
09:54:04 going to hear from Beach Park and you are going to
09:54:06 hear from people at Gandy with the exact same --
09:54:11 >> They are labeled stable.
09:54:12 >>MARY MULHERN: They are?
09:54:15 My question, early in your discussion, you talked
09:54:23 about how the TCEA is something that can be used to
09:54:31 kind of get around --
09:54:36 >>> Sure.
09:54:37 Well, getting around, now.
09:54:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Would you explain that?
09:54:40 >>> Sure, I can explain it.
09:54:41 The way roadway level service standards are
09:54:45 established, for 90% of the roadways they are
09:54:47 established by the local government agency.
09:54:49 And so right now the city adopts level service
09:54:52 standard D, which is not great, but typical for urban
09:54:56 areas, and some of the roads are easy because they are
09:54:59 So we keep moving.
09:55:00 We don't see the signal more than twice probably,
09:55:05 hopefully not more than once and traffic moves, it's
09:55:08 not grid locked.
09:55:09 The city -- 90% of the roadways are free to come in
09:55:15 and reduce that standard.
09:55:16 So for the purpose of development and review our
09:55:19 standard is E or our standard is F and oftentimes
09:55:23 expressed as a multiplier as the ratio of traffic
09:55:26 volume to roadway capacity.
09:55:27 So they'll adopt a 1.2 or 1.3 multiplier against that.
09:55:31 And that's the way basically creating policy on paper
09:55:35 to allow development to continue.
09:55:37 I guess the point is, on city streets, one option is
09:55:40 an exception area which is sort of a blanket
09:55:45 Another system on the level service standard.
09:55:47 And that's the city adoption.
09:55:50 However, the level service standard is set actually by
09:55:54 statute, administrative rule.
09:55:56 SIS is strategic intermodal system, and interstate
09:56:00 highways in the City of Tampa.
09:56:01 Interstate highways also Gandy Boulevard, and little
09:56:05 part of State Road 60.
09:56:06 And then there are SIS connectors, for example, the
09:56:09 state is in the process of trying to find a route
09:56:12 between Amtrak station and State Road 60 as a way to
09:56:16 connect intermodally, because the purpose of SIS from
09:56:21 the state perspective is interregional connection,
09:56:25 getting you to the airport from somewhere else, and
09:56:27 not necessarily to say intracity travel.
09:56:31 So that's sort of the policy standpoint.
09:56:33 Because the city can't unilaterally adopt a lower
09:56:38 level service standard from the SIS, and because those
09:56:42 facilities currently do not operate at the LOS-D
09:56:47 standard that the state has required to be adopted,
09:56:48 the city could be in position if they are trying to do
09:56:50 a comprehensive plan amendment for a site that is
09:56:54 going to have traffic impact on interstate, without
09:56:57 being consistent in their plan and the state to get
09:56:59 involved to hold up that plan amendment.
09:57:01 The TCEA reaches a negotiated truce between the city
09:57:08 objectives for development and growth and eventual
09:57:12 progression to where it's more of a transit oriented
09:57:14 transportation system, and the statutory requirement
09:57:17 that the local D.O.T. is required to deal with.
09:57:19 And I think the local D.O.T. understands the transit
09:57:22 moving in that direction.
09:57:23 But there's sort of a bootstrap effect where before
09:57:26 you get dense enough for transit, you -- so TCEA,
09:57:34 instead of individual roadways, you put together an
09:57:37 overall mobility and land use plan that shows how you
09:57:40 are moving toward the future.
09:57:41 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, that's very helpful.
09:57:45 And I want to hear from you, Randy, but I have to get
09:57:48 this out before I forget.
09:57:51 It really struck me, the language that you use -- that
09:57:56 we use, is that how our roads and our transportation
09:58:00 effects the interstate.
09:58:03 As if the interstate system isn't supposed to help us
09:58:10 move around, the roads aren't -- the overall picture
09:58:18 is the roads aren't to help people get around, we are
09:58:21 supposed to make ways for the roads -- the interstates
09:58:25 to move faster.
09:58:26 So even though 90% of our roads are not determined by
09:58:33 the state standards, everything we do, and, you know,
09:58:39 what was it, like 78% of our money goes to those state
09:58:46 roads and that system.
09:58:49 And what I'm wondering -- and this is a really big
09:58:52 picture but I'm wondering, you're saying that this
09:58:54 district is committed to transit, and working toward
09:58:58 But if you look at maybe some other districts, are
09:59:02 there on the places that have managed to -- like I
09:59:05 know Miami and south Florida has a little more leeway
09:59:14 and is a little more progressive to move towards
09:59:17 transit as opposed to anything.
09:59:19 I know because they are much more congested.
09:59:22 But is there a way -- I mean, it's very helpful how
09:59:29 the TCEA is basically a tool for us to try to make
09:59:34 transit and more livable kinds of transaction happen.
09:59:38 But I feel like we are just kind of -- the state
09:59:43 standards are just sort of making it so difficult to
09:59:47 create the kind of transit we need for the people who
09:59:51 live here.
09:59:53 >>RANDY GOERS: Growth management.
09:59:56 I will respond to your question earlier but the
10:00:00 response is the state standards have provided a fairly
10:00:06 onerous requirements on government to meet their
10:00:09 interstate primarily because they don't have enough
10:00:11 money to widen the interstate or do other things they
10:00:13 need to move traffic through them.
10:00:15 And in fact the origin of our TCEA came from the FDOT
10:00:19 in 1997, I believe, when we could not meet their
10:00:24 And they suggested in an objection that we move to a
10:00:29 TCEA as one of the options to allow growth to occur
10:00:33 when they have standards that they cannot change.
10:00:36 So you send it -- in terms of what we are faced with,
10:00:41 FDOT standards, and why there is a TCEA.
10:00:44 I think the presentation, there are also ways that we
10:00:47 can manage a TCEA better than what we found in the
10:00:51 past to help protect and stabilize in the
10:00:57 >> What we want to do is not exclusively respond to
10:01:01 the external requirements, but this also makes sense
10:01:04 for the city and helps to focus growth where we want
10:01:08 in-fill development elsewhere within the city.
10:01:10 With respect to Miami-Dade, I think the simplest
10:01:14 answer is they have been at it longer, they had their
10:01:16 regional transportation authority longer, and it just
10:01:18 a bigger city in a lot of respects.
10:01:20 One thing that they have got going down there, I guess
10:01:24 HR H.I.T. which the district is also talking about
10:01:28 implementing, and the idea is that you have that
10:01:31 intra-city concert from your flight when you get to
10:01:34 your meetings and downtown high-rises of glass and
10:01:40 steel, and the local people can use the other lanes.
10:01:43 So I think we are probably also moving in that
10:01:45 Also the interstates carry a tremendous amount of
10:01:48 local traffic, and that trend has increased over the
10:01:51 last 20 years, in terms of just sheer magnitude of
10:01:55 traffic, not so much intra-city traffic, but traffic
10:02:00 commuting into and out of the city.
10:02:02 And I think that those investments really help support
10:02:06 the downtown and the Westshore business district.
10:02:08 >>MARY MULHERN: I think what really strikes me -- and
10:02:11 I'm just wondering if this is something that we can --
10:02:16 the comprehensive plan can work on.
10:02:18 You know, Randy, you were saying that they don't have
10:02:22 enough money to build more lanes, basically, on the
10:02:25 Reality is, you are never going to catch up because
10:02:29 you know that.
10:02:30 We all know that he have time we build new lanes, you
10:02:33 end up at the same level of service.
10:02:35 If we are never going to have the alternative, which
10:02:40 is transit, rail, then we are never going to change
10:02:45 the dynamics.
10:02:46 So I guess we just need to make sure with the comp
10:02:50 plan -- and we. Gotten to this yet.
10:02:54 Maybe this is part of today's meeting, that we
10:02:57 actually have the transit drawn in.
10:03:00 We have the maps as part -- is that part of this?
10:03:06 >>> The plan includes as much of the long-term rail
10:03:09 plan and requirements as it can at this point in time.
10:03:15 And there are a number of discussions that still
10:03:17 haven't been finalized or approved by all the
10:03:19 governing bodies, so we can't include those.
10:03:22 It does make a commitment to transit in the area.
10:03:25 The policies are all focusing on encouraging
10:03:27 development in the business centers, corridors where
10:03:31 we believe the transit rail lines are going to be
10:03:35 It provides for working with Hart in terms of funding
10:03:39 mechanism for transit, calls in coordinating mechanism
10:03:45 with all the agencies and I think it really is the
10:03:48 continued vigilance of the administration, working
10:03:52 with the other local governments, working with TBARTA,
10:03:56 to keep that plan moving forward.
10:03:58 And that I think really is the main effort they have
10:04:02 to follow up.
10:04:03 The plan does everything to put us in place to do
10:04:08 And as soon as the plans get approved by the member
10:04:12 governments, and they can be incorporated right into
10:04:14 the comp plan, and start on the requirements.
10:04:19 >>MARY MULHERN: The MPO is approved the transit map.
10:04:25 >>: Their content map is incorporated, I believe, in
10:04:28 the comprehensive plan.
10:04:29 Again, the difference between the concept map and the
10:04:34 adoptive map are two different messages.
10:04:37 Again the plan has included everything that we
10:04:39 possibly can that is known, and in a way that it has
10:04:43 been approved at this point, and conned development,
10:04:48 refinement, adoption in the implementation of those.
10:04:51 >> So for the comp plan, we are dependent upon
10:04:54 basically the county -- you can talk about TBARTA all
10:04:58 you want but we are in Hillsborough County and I don't
10:04:59 think we are going to be waiting, you know.
10:05:02 >>RANDY GOERS: I think where we are moving is that you
10:05:05 can tell from the administration's plans and the mayor
10:05:09 to do everything that the city can do to lead the
10:05:11 effort and keep placing it on the agenda.
10:05:13 Again, it's a regional system.
10:05:15 So it is a regional effort, and it takes a great deal
10:05:18 of collaboration.
10:05:19 But I think the key point is that the plan will get us
10:05:21 as far as it can get.
10:05:23 It's still going to require the commitment by the
10:05:25 local governments and their constituents to make it
10:05:33 >>MARY MULHERN: Maybe Terry can come and explain.
10:05:39 The MPO -- I mean, beer only going to adopt it when we
10:05:42 get the referendum and as far as adopting it.
10:05:45 But if it's part of our plan to do it, that we use
10:05:50 that MPO transit plan as part of the comp plan?
10:05:55 >>> Well, we have taken the MPO's transit plan and we
10:05:58 have taken the rail lines that have been proposed with
10:06:01 the conceptual locations for the station stuff, and we
10:06:05 put it right in to the vision map that's not part of
10:06:08 the Tampa plan.
10:06:09 >> So it's in there?
10:06:10 >> Oh, yes, definitely.
10:06:12 And there's a whole section that's dealing with rail
10:06:14 The message that's being carried out there to the
10:06:17 public from our office, it's not a question of if we
10:06:20 are going to get rail transit.
10:06:22 Question is when.
10:06:24 And so it strongly advocate it.
10:06:27 And the growth management strategies for the comp plan
10:06:29 will direct growth into the areas such as the business
10:06:33 centers, and the mixed use corridor villages to
10:06:37 support a future, you know, rail, transit and bus
10:06:41 route transit system.
10:06:42 So, yes, we are getting very transit ready with this
10:06:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: To follow up, it has adopted the whole
10:06:56 rail plan and one of the things is to look at what was
10:07:08 available, what was the plan, and try to bring it
10:07:10 forward in the presentations.
10:07:13 So you are absolutely right.
10:07:14 But again the key still, though, is that the local
10:07:18 government has got to find a way out. That has not
10:07:23 happened yet.
10:07:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:07:27 To support what both of you said, Tampa City Council
10:07:29 has been very enthusiastically on the record saying --
10:07:34 recognizing that we need transit plans, supporting
10:07:37 funding for TBARTA, doing everything we can to push
10:07:41 this ahead.
10:07:42 And I want to compliment this part of your
10:07:46 You very clearly have made transit oriented
10:07:50 development a key part of all of our planning and
10:07:53 thinking and transportation and land use together.
10:07:55 The other thing I wanted to compliment -- and I'm so
10:07:57 pleased that it's in here -- is the neighborhood
10:08:03 I think that's critical.
10:08:05 And it's one of the things we can do and it's beyond
10:08:08 speed bumps.
10:08:09 It's even tree planting on the sides of the road
10:08:11 because we know when you plant trees, it slows people
10:08:15 down, it makes the neighborhood nicer but also
10:08:18 minimizes neighborhood cut-through. If there's a
10:08:21 wide-open road people sail down it.
10:08:24 If there's trees, it's a little narrower, people drive
10:08:27 more slowly and it encourages them to not cut through
10:08:29 the neighborhood.
10:08:29 So I hope that's again one of the things that you
10:08:32 recognize as part of the neighborhood mitigation
10:08:34 strategy for medians and sidewalks.
10:08:41 Those tore people keep on the commercial corridors.
10:08:44 But thank you for doing this.
10:08:45 I think the TCEA gives us more tools than we had in
10:08:49 the past to direct where transportation improvements
10:08:51 are made and how growth occurs.
10:08:53 So you did a good job.
10:08:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Additional questions?
10:08:59 No other questions?
10:09:01 Anything else from the Planning Commission?
10:09:07 Then that concludes our workshop on the comprehensive
10:09:10 plan then.
10:09:12 Thank you.
10:09:14 I'm sorry, one thing.
10:09:15 The public.
10:09:16 Yes, the public.
10:09:20 Anyone wish to address City Council may come forward,
10:09:23 state your name and address for the record.
10:09:24 >>> John wisegar, resident of city of Tampa, 8419
10:09:28 north 46th street.
10:09:30 The Planning Commission attended our neighborhood
10:09:33 meeting and gave us a presentation of the comp plan,
10:09:37 and I'm just beginning to really get into it and study
10:09:41 it in depth.
10:09:42 I just wanted to make sure that in the plan that the
10:09:46 inner city, the African-American community are deeply
10:09:49 covered as relates to stops and any long-range plan
10:09:53 relating to transportation.
10:09:55 All the bases must be covered up front in the very
10:09:58 beginning before council approves anything.
10:10:00 And so that's what I'm hoping for and that's what I'm
10:10:03 will go for, that it's deeply covered, that it cannot
10:10:06 be removed, and there are problems, and there has been
10:10:09 talk about mitigation, opportunities to solve those
10:10:13 problems up front.
10:10:14 So we want to be fully involved in mass transit
10:10:19 because you know our people don't have the money in
10:10:22 some instances for transportation.
10:10:23 So this is a step in the right direction for our city,
10:10:26 and it's important that everybody within the city is
10:10:29 So I'm pleased what I have heard, I am asking that the
10:10:35 council, the mayor, and everyone within the city keep
10:10:41 every step of the way that they continue to be
10:10:44 And Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you what you are
10:10:46 Keep it up as chairman of Tampa City Council.
10:10:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
10:10:51 >>> Terry kneel, Tampa, Temple Crest civic
10:10:59 Although I have been supportive of much of the comp
10:11:01 plan I do not support the TCEA because it lacks
10:11:04 neighborhood definitions and targets them for specific
10:11:08 types of road development that adversely affects the
10:11:11 success of the comp plan depends upon creating livable
10:11:16 Yet it seems like the left hand is ignoring the right
10:11:19 Staff has placed before you a new 2008 Tampa
10:11:24 transportation manual that virtually eliminates
10:11:26 transparency, public input and credibility.
10:11:30 For example, well, that staff is more credible than
10:11:37 For example we asked for speed tables on River Hills
10:11:40 The transportation staff said that the city doesn't
10:11:42 put speed tables on collectors, which River Hills
10:11:46 Drive is.
10:11:48 I said that wasn't true.
10:11:49 You had staff come and speak to you.
10:11:51 They essentially called me a liar, although a TPD
10:11:54 officer said at that time that Yukon, a collector, did
10:12:00 have speed tables.
10:12:01 I sent pictures to you of a document, but nobody said
10:12:04 Mr. Neal was right, or, staff, come back and tell us
10:12:07 why you told us this, that a citizen with proof has no
10:12:11 credibility, even when it contradicts staff?
10:12:14 We will have no neighborhood mitigation on River Hills
10:12:18 We have been turned down for medians, we have been
10:12:20 turned down for sidewalks, we have been turned down
10:12:22 for everything including speed tables.
10:12:24 So forget neighborhood mitigation when it comes to us.
10:12:28 We will not have the kind of livable roadways called
10:12:31 for by this comp plan if you turn over unbridled power
10:12:35 to the transportation staff to rule our roads and
10:12:37 property, and that's what this manual does.
10:12:41 Most importantly, staff should not have the ability to
10:12:44 reflect citizens property without public
10:12:48 And that's what this manual does.
10:12:49 This manual and other administrative decisions allow
10:12:54 Page 6 of the manual gives the director of public
10:12:57 roads the right to change the manual at any time he
10:12:59 wants to without any trance transparency or public
10:13:03 input or input by you.
10:13:04 Page 39, transportation manager is allowed to okay
10:13:09 Where is the VRB board in this manual?
10:13:12 We have sidewalk ordinances, but this manual dictates
10:13:16 how sidewalks --
10:13:18 >> This item is scheduled actually for a public
10:13:20 hearing coming up on June 5th so I think we have
10:13:23 to be --
10:13:25 >>> You told me last week to come back and speak about
10:13:28 >> I mean, I recognize -- I don't know what anybody
10:13:31 told you.
10:13:31 I just have to say this is scheduled for a public
10:13:33 hearing coming up on June -- if you want to talk about
10:13:38 the manuals generally and how it plays into the
10:13:40 comprehensive plan that's fine.
10:13:41 But if we start getting into the specifics of the
10:13:44 manual, then we are really outside of where we should
10:13:46 be on the public hearing.
10:13:47 So I just want to caution everyone about that.
10:13:49 >> Well, I was told to come back this week and speak
10:13:53 about it.
10:13:56 Well, TCES is not consistent with the comp plan.
10:13:59 I hope that time was not taken off my clock,
10:14:03 My point is you must reduce administrative decisions
10:14:05 or amend the code to put meetings about roadways into
10:14:09 the sunshine.
10:14:10 I would advise a livable roadways advisory board if
10:14:14 you don't want to take up this responsibility, like
10:14:15 the VRB, to hear issues about roads and neighborhoods.
10:14:22 You must leave the city better off than when you found
10:14:26 (Bell sounds).
10:14:27 Can I have a little more time?
10:14:28 >> Go ahead.
10:14:29 >>> We know our neighborhoods better than anyone else.
10:14:33 We live there.
10:14:35 Staff does not.
10:14:36 They should listen to us, not tell us what is right.
10:14:44 Public participation in designing that you are
10:14:45 neighborhoods is the only way to ensure -- I got
10:14:51 thrown off by that but I was told last week to come
10:14:53 back and speak about this and now I'm very
10:14:55 disappointed that I was interrupted and told I can't
10:14:57 speak about the manual.
10:15:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:15:02 I don't know what the conversation was last week.
10:15:05 I know you worked out the schedule to be here to
10:15:08 address council.
10:15:09 I recall that.
10:15:10 I'm not sure.
10:15:15 Does anyone recall?
10:15:16 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: He had an appointment somewhere
10:15:20 in town and --
10:15:24 He was trying to accommodate.
10:15:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It was set for 3:00, I believe.
10:15:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We were trying to accommodate the
10:15:30 Okay, Mrs. Miller.
10:15:31 >>CINDY MILLER: Perhaps I can either help the
10:15:34 situation or muddy it.
10:15:36 Cindy Miller, director of growth management and
10:15:39 development services.
10:15:39 I believe what we had said would be appropriate for
10:15:42 today's conversation with the workshop is to see how
10:15:45 livable roadways fits into the comprehensive plan and
10:15:49 to land development regulation.
10:15:51 The text manual is neither of those.
10:15:53 It is a separate document that will be looked at and
10:15:58 reviewed by council at their future meetings, your
10:16:00 future meeting.
10:16:01 But when it comes to livable roadways, it is very
10:16:04 appropriate that as we see what the policies are in
10:16:07 the comprehensive plan, that then we as staff come
10:16:10 back with the code regulations, land development
10:16:13 regulations, other chapters, and be able to look at
10:16:16 how it does get adopted into our code.
10:16:18 So I believe the point I had made last week was that
10:16:21 we could show how these various means to accomplish
10:16:24 what we all want to see in our city can be
10:16:27 Whether it's comprehensive plans, code, and then the
10:16:30 technical manuals that are used throughout the city.
10:16:33 But those are separate areas that would need to be
10:16:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, good.
10:16:39 I don't know if Mr. Neal heard that or not.
10:16:41 He's in consultation with the attorney.
10:16:43 But thank you for that clarification.
10:16:51 Anyone else from the public?
10:16:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Shelby, or Julia Cole, I don't
10:17:02 know who is the right one to ask.
10:17:03 But legally, if council has a concern about
10:17:08 specifically Davis islands and its designation, it
10:17:11 would be appropriate to direct action here or bring it
10:17:15 up on the 26th?
10:17:16 What would be the most efficient way to address this?
10:17:19 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
10:17:20 I would ask for to you direct the action today.
10:17:23 When you get to June 25th, that is the actual
10:17:28 transmittal public hearing date, yes, you can make
10:17:30 changes and direct changes then.
10:17:31 If you have things you know now and you want to have
10:17:35 another comprehensive plan workshop on the 19th, I
10:17:37 would recommend that that's the time if you have
10:17:40 issues or you want to make some changes, do it then.
10:17:46 I believe Mr. Shelby said you had the right to make
10:17:49 the vote --
10:17:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: My suggestion is you direct them to
10:17:53 take your comments, if it's the pleasure of council to
10:17:55 address your concerns to at least have it on the
10:17:57 19th to come back with proposed changes to the
10:17:59 comprehensive plan.
10:18:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:18:01 So my motion would be on the 19th to look at
10:18:03 relabeling Davis Island as a stable neighborhood.
10:18:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there a second?
10:18:09 >>: Second.
10:18:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Moved by councilwoman Saul-Sena,
10:18:12 seconded by councilwoman Mulhern.
10:18:15 All in favor say Aye.
10:18:17 So moved.
10:18:17 Thank you.
10:18:18 Any on the comments?
10:18:24 Do we need to close the hearing on that?
10:18:27 >>: So moved.
10:18:27 >> Second.
10:18:28 (Motion carried).
10:18:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That concludes our first workshop on
10:18:33 the comprehensive plan.
10:18:37 We will take up now item 3.
10:18:45 Which is the transportation division Land Development
10:18:46 Coordination to deal with the parking in Soho
10:19:01 Move to open the --
10:19:03 >> So moved.
10:19:03 >> Second.
10:19:03 (Motion carried).
10:19:04 >>> First of all, I want to thank you for approving
10:19:12 our request to workshop this topic, parking, and the
10:19:19 Soho area.
10:19:21 This came to you originally as two separate items.
10:19:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We are actually dealing with 3 and 4.
10:19:33 Dealing with the Soho district, right?
10:19:35 >>> Right.
10:19:36 This idea came to you as two separate items.
10:19:38 And what we would like to do is try to bring some
10:19:44 As you can see from the folks that we have gathered
10:19:47 here, it involves a variety of different portions of
10:19:51 the staff.
10:19:51 And what we want to do is to basically lay out for you
10:19:54 all the discussion that's occurred from the different
10:19:59 departments, and basically allow you all to then
10:20:02 interact with us, hopefully we can answer any
10:20:07 questions that you might have.
10:20:09 But what I would ask if you can indulge us for a
10:20:13 moment, I have a PowerPoint presentation.
10:20:15 I hope you have copies of that.
10:20:17 We would like to go through that in its entirety
10:20:19 first, just to kind of get all the issues out on the
10:20:22 table so you all will understand not only the
10:20:24 complexity but appreciate the amount of work that we
10:20:27 put together in this whole topic, this whole idea, and
10:20:32 then we would like to work with you all to see what if
10:20:35 any of the recommendations, the proposed solutions it
10:20:39 would have, you would like us to move.
10:20:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Before we move forward then, there's a
10:20:45 Do I hear a second to open number 4 as well?
10:20:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:20:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we will open 3 and 4.
10:20:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is it council's intention to combine
10:20:57 public comments to 30 minutes for both 3 and 4?
10:21:00 >> Yes.
10:21:00 3 and 4.
10:21:01 That's correct.
10:21:02 Thank you.
10:21:02 >>> And I would like to ask Cathy Coyle to come up and
10:21:07 Republican through the presentation for you.
10:21:12 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:21:15 The PowerPoint?
10:21:19 Thank you.
10:21:19 There's a fair amount of information in this
10:21:23 I am going to try to get through it quickly but very
10:21:26 concisely so that you understand all of the issues.
10:21:29 As Mr. Lee mentioned, if we could hold the questions
10:21:32 till the end so I can get all the information out
10:21:34 there for you to understand.
10:21:35 First thing that we looked at, it has been about a
10:21:38 two-year process so far with the public participation
10:21:40 and all the meetings that have been taking place.
10:21:43 It's to really look at the challenges of this parking
10:21:45 issue in Soho.
10:21:52 First to identify where the challenges are, what they
10:21:54 are, and how we can address them for different
10:22:00 Here are some examples of the area at night.
10:22:02 That's the reason they are dark photos.
10:22:04 But you can see potentially some congregation of
10:22:07 people around this particular use.
10:22:09 There's parking, kind of haphazardly, there are
10:22:15 traffic cones at Platt, you can see both sides of the
10:22:20 road which narrow the corridor for the travel lanes.
10:22:22 Then finally, on the same road, at a different time,
10:22:25 you can see how the cars stack right up against the
10:22:28 stop sign, which actually creates the visibility of
10:22:30 the obstruction for people coming to that
10:22:33 They are unable to see the stop sign which can
10:22:35 potentially cause accidents.
10:22:39 There was a parking count done.
10:22:41 Just to show you the difference, the typical Monday
10:22:45 night parking which is in the maroon represents the
10:22:49 residential parking in the area and then the Friday
10:22:51 night count which is in blue, you can see the vast
10:22:54 difference between the two.
10:22:55 If you focus on west land Avenue, you can see that has
10:22:58 the highest count on Friday night, above 120 cars,
10:23:01 whereas the typical residential parking in the maroon
10:23:05 is just over 40.
10:23:06 If you can see, it has tripled.
10:23:08 Also on Fremont and Azeele there's a lesser parking
10:23:13 count but a triple between a weekend night and a
10:23:16 weekday night.
10:23:18 And what they found in that count study was that
10:23:22 Monday, typically residential, about 350 vehicles were
10:23:26 found on the segments.
10:23:29 Found an additional 300 commercial vehicles, not
10:23:31 commercial vehicles but vehicles used there, for the
10:23:36 commercial activity, between the days of Wednesday and
10:23:39 Saturday which is typically seen as night life
10:23:41 activity in the area.
10:23:42 To give you some context, the area is east of Armenia,
10:23:50 south of Kennedy, west of Dakota, north of Swann.
10:23:55 To put it into perspective with the zoning categories,
10:23:58 you will note that there is actually not a
10:24:00 single-family residential category on this district.
10:24:03 You will note that the purple are PDs, planned
10:24:07 developments, and they are scattered throughout.
10:24:10 The yellowish color is RM-16, multifamily 16 units per
10:24:17 acre and there are a couple of residential office
10:24:20 districts, but mainly multifamily and higher.
10:24:26 The uses, it doesn't necessarily tell what you the use
10:24:29 is, but it does tell you the intensity of the zoning,
10:24:31 and underlying land use is actually more intense.
10:24:35 So with that, transportation met with the Tampa Police
10:24:37 Department, and with fire rescue, to go over five
10:24:42 specific segments that were areas of concern of
10:24:45 Albany, Azeele, Horatio, Fremont, in this area and
10:24:50 through the discussions they found that additional
10:24:52 parking restrictions are recommended and they were
10:24:57 Parking enforcement, you can see how the count went up
10:25:00 for tickets for the enforcement and TPD wrote 560 in
10:25:03 2006 just in this area and actually went up to 664 in
10:25:08 District one does encourage the officers to be visible
10:25:11 in this area during this night time activity, and they
10:25:14 have also implemented the use of bicycle police
10:25:19 Keep that in mind, though, to balance the fact that
10:25:21 they are out there for parking enforcement, and that
10:25:23 does potentially take away other enforcement options
10:25:28 by the police officers.
10:25:30 To give you a highlight on the public participation,
10:25:33 and as I said, it's been about a two-year process so
10:25:37 Initial meeting occurred June 26th.
10:25:41 There was a follow-up meeting with the local business
10:25:43 owners in July of '06 there. Were two follow-up
10:25:47 meetings in '07.
10:25:48 January and April with the neighborhood association.
10:25:50 And then finally a letter came, November 16, to
10:25:53 transportation, generated by the neighborhood
10:25:55 association, identifying certain traffic improvements
10:25:59 they would like to see.
10:26:01 There was a follow-up meeting January of '08 this
10:26:05 year, to talk about additional sidewalk requirements.
10:26:08 And then there was a rezoning recently for that large
10:26:12 public -- into the area and they did generously donate
10:26:15 $125 that you towards sidewalk improvements in the
10:26:20 The challenges, what are they?
10:26:22 Parking demand, available and enforcement.
10:26:26 Down from the residential needs with the growing
10:26:28 commercial needs.
10:26:31 What I want you to understand is this is not
10:26:33 necessarily a unique situation.
10:26:35 We had similar situations in Ybor.
10:26:38 We have them now in Soho.
10:26:39 And as different neighborhoods redevelop, especially
10:26:41 within the inner city where there are constrained
10:26:44 traffic grids, we are going to have issues like this,
10:26:47 essentially in West Tampa as their district grows and
10:26:50 expands, in Seminole Heights, in some of the older
10:26:53 So what we are trying to do now is set the stage with
10:26:55 these potential solutions and map out how we are going
10:27:01 to deal with them, and for guidance as well.
10:27:06 There can be challenges in the code.
10:27:08 How we address off-street parking, off-site parking,
10:27:12 and then ultimately what we hope to achieve is
10:27:15 consensus between the city departments that regulate
10:27:19 how to enforce the issues, among the neighborhood
10:27:21 associations and the people that live there, and along
10:27:24 with the businesses that actually need this parking.
10:27:29 There are four key factors to a successful parking
10:27:32 program, for a solution.
10:27:37 Actually, Mr. Lee gave a really good analogy to me,
10:27:40 think about it as a stool with four legs, and you have
10:27:42 to have all four in order for the stool to balance.
10:27:46 Safety, convenience, efficiency, compatibility.
10:27:49 Those are four key factors.
10:27:54 The first component is the zoning code itself.
10:27:56 When we talk about off-site parking.
10:27:58 Right now, you can try to seek off-site parking within
10:28:03 300 feet with a lease agreement.
10:28:05 And you can provide that.
10:28:07 300 feet is not very far.
10:28:09 It's about one city block.
10:28:11 Not including those rights-of-way actually.
10:28:14 There is a code amendment proposed in this cycle which
10:28:16 you will see at the workshop in June, that actually
10:28:19 increases that to 1,000 feet, which typically, a
10:28:23 thousand feet to a quarter of a mile is typical
10:28:26 walking radius, a walkable distance.
10:28:28 We actually implemented that last year in the CBD and
10:28:32 Channel District and we are looking at that city-wide
10:28:34 so there are more opportunities.
10:28:39 Residential parking program, which has been
10:28:41 implemented in Ybor City and in the Channel District.
10:28:44 There are seven steps essentially that we go through.
10:28:48 First we need to know that an area wanted and desires
10:28:53 the parking program.
10:28:54 We establish boundaries.
10:28:56 We do the study to find out exactly what the demand
10:28:58 We hold neighborhood meetings, look for a funding
10:29:01 source, and then ultimately implement the program.
10:29:06 The next potential solution is parking signs.
10:29:09 City Council also could look to increase a parking
10:29:12 sign as an additional deterrent.
10:29:14 Right now the parking tickets are approximately $30.
10:29:17 You could increase that to hopefully deter some
10:29:22 What we have been seeing so far is that $30 is
10:29:25 essentially the cost of going out.
10:29:29 It just a price you pay.
10:29:30 Especially with 664 tickets, the tickets are going up,
10:29:33 more and more people are coming.
10:29:35 It just part of that night life essentially.
10:29:38 Parking meters are another potential solution.
10:29:43 We could provide parking meters along South Howard.
10:29:46 It does require delineation by the transportation
10:29:48 division to go out and mark the spaces.
10:29:50 Obviously we have to look for certain areas, where
10:29:53 spaces can be accommodated, and also go out and mark
10:29:56 hem which there is a cost associated and to mark them
10:30:01 Under 15-7, the city administration could have
10:30:05 authorized that.
10:30:07 The next potential solution is towing.
10:30:11 There are some legal and logistical issues with the
10:30:15 We do have our legal representative here, as well as
10:30:17 our other technical experts to answer specific
10:30:21 questions about that.
10:30:22 City Council could explore this option, but there
10:30:25 would potentially need to be some code amendments that
10:30:28 run with that.
10:30:28 So there would need to be some sort of hearing
10:30:31 process, if anyone wanted to challenge that.
10:30:36 Long-term solutions, off-site parking.
10:30:40 I'll briefly address the 300 to 1,000 foot radius.
10:30:44 Shared parking is obviously something that a lot of
10:30:46 communities use as strategy for parking scenarios,
10:30:49 especially in the tighter urban areas.
10:30:52 This is a picture of the Sweetbay parking lot.
10:30:55 It's a large asphalt parking lot that has a lot of
10:30:58 The thing is, these would be private-private
10:31:01 partnerships or even public-private partnerships and
10:31:04 throws always a cost associated with that.
10:31:05 But there is potential out there for some areas to be
10:31:10 Next is a parking garage.
10:31:15 The city has been approached by a local businessman
10:31:18 about a certain piece of property that is about either
10:31:22 to become a surface lot or parking garage, and we have
10:31:25 been in discussions on that.
10:31:29 So far the traffic engineering option is to look at
10:31:32 other solutions are four-way stops.
10:31:34 There was a study done, nine intersections between
10:31:39 Westland, Melville, DeLeon and Azeele.
10:31:42 Each one of those intersections, those nine were
10:31:46 Unfortunately there's a traffic count on the crash
10:31:49 accident data that was shown, it didn't meet the
10:31:51 criteria for four way stops in those intersections and
10:31:54 I'll show them to you graphically.
10:31:58 Signage improvements, however, have been made through
10:32:00 the different studies.
10:32:01 There are 13 intersections or segments that were
10:32:05 studied, and there are new signs for no parking and/or
10:32:11 no parking at the corner to try to pull the cars back
10:32:13 for visibility at the intersections, it has been
10:32:16 implemented in these 13 segment.
10:32:19 There have also been time limit signage placed in the
10:32:22 300 block of Howard and west Azeele.
10:32:27 To show you the general map of parking restrictions,
10:32:30 these are the segments where there is some sort of
10:32:33 parking restrictions for signage.
10:32:36 So it's a fair amount of the segments within the area.
10:32:40 One of the final options actually we were looking at
10:32:42 was Platt and clove land, on-street parking, with an
10:32:46 option of a bike lane, that you can see that's not
10:32:49 actually one of the roads but is an example.
10:32:52 There are a couple examples of Platt and Cleveland
10:32:55 because they are on the long-range transportation
10:32:58 We would be using a lane of capacity and the one
10:33:02 serving east-west connections to downtown.
10:33:05 It would require a comprehensive plan change because
10:33:08 they are on the long range plan.
10:33:09 And it also would require coordination with the
10:33:11 county, because it does serve the larger grid.
10:33:16 There is also a request recently for us to look at
10:33:19 Howard Avenue.
10:33:19 So we went ahead and threw that in.
10:33:22 There is a two-lane segment running north between
10:33:26 Azeele and Platt, and the question was, can we make
10:33:29 that a two-way?
10:33:30 And transportation has reviewed the possibility.
10:33:35 What it does, however, because the roadway is -- you
10:33:39 can see the parallel spaces.
10:33:43 There are eight angle space on the western side of the
10:33:47 roadway and the traffic runs north.
10:33:48 North is to your right on the screen.
10:33:50 The issue is making it two-way because of the
10:33:53 constraint. Right-of-way itself.
10:33:56 When you actually make it a two-way it not wide enough
10:33:58 to still accommodate the angled spaces.
10:34:00 So when you two-way it and you eliminate the angled
10:34:03 spaces and put that in parallel you lose four to five
10:34:07 spaces so it's actually counterintuitive to do that
10:34:10 because you are actually reducing parking at that
10:34:16 Finally the summary.
10:34:18 We went over nine different potential solutions, and
10:34:22 as I mentioned, there are technical experts that
10:34:25 either did participate in the studies, or wrote the
10:34:29 I can certainly address any of the zoning conditions
10:34:32 or zoning regulations as well.
10:34:34 And the long-range plan for the area.
10:34:37 If you have any questions, please feel free to raise
10:34:42 Thank you.
10:34:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This neighborhood has been begging
10:34:50 for this for years and I am glad we are finally at
10:34:52 this point.
10:34:53 I have two quick questions.
10:34:54 First of all, wouldn't you say that the neighborhood's
10:34:57 consistent engagement on this means they already met
10:35:00 the bar of the neighborhood requesting a permit
10:35:02 Because frankly they have been requesting and
10:35:03 requesting and requesting.
10:35:04 I think the first three things they say that they want
10:35:07 that you have done a study.
10:35:08 It seems like already down the third thing on the
10:35:14 >>> I would refer to Jim Corbett on that.
10:35:17 He's the parking manager.
10:35:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Before he comes up, the other thing
10:35:20 I want to say is, what do we have to do as City
10:35:23 Council to get this on the way?
10:35:24 Because frankly these neighbors have been so patient.
10:35:27 And it seems like everything on the list needs to be
10:35:29 done, except maybe the meters.
10:35:32 I don't see why that creates more opportunity for
10:35:35 It creates revenue for the city, but it doesn't create
10:35:37 any more parking.
10:35:40 And it costs something to install.
10:35:42 >> Mr. Corbett can address the meetings.
10:35:45 But really the approach we have tried to come up with
10:35:47 at this point is-and I'm actually a firm believer in
10:35:51 There is no magic wand for this.
10:35:52 >> All of the above.
10:35:53 >> There are many little solutions that can add up to
10:35:57 a good outcome, at least a better outcome.
10:36:00 >> But it seems to me the most important thing we do
10:36:03 is create more spaces for people, that we don't want
10:36:06 them to park where they shouldn't park we need to
10:36:09 provide some kind of structured parking.
10:36:11 Now how the city owns drainage, a pond to the west of
10:36:18 It seems to me we need to create some structured
10:36:22 That strikes me as the first.
10:36:25 >>> I'll defer to Mr. Corbett.
10:36:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Sure.
10:36:29 >>> Jim Corbett, parking manager.
10:36:32 To address some of your concerns you had, councilwoman
10:36:37 We actually received our first formal request through
10:36:40 the Oscawana neighborhood association primarily the
10:36:43 letter that we received from Mr. Walter Crumbley in
10:36:46 So we are at the point, and it's probably -- we do
10:36:51 need to go out and contact through the neighborhood
10:36:53 associations in that area and establish some meetings
10:36:55 to talk about establish the boundaries.
10:36:57 >> You have already had three meetings.
10:36:59 >>> Well, the original meetings we were getting mixed
10:37:02 There were times when folks were not ready for a
10:37:05 residential parking program because that meant
10:37:06 bringing enforcement into these boundaries, enforcing
10:37:09 the program.
10:37:10 And I don't think folks were quite ready for that.
10:37:12 And I was part of those original meetings back in 2006
10:37:15 when Roy LaMotte was on staff and I did attend those
10:37:18 And that was pretty straightforward. That was the
10:37:21 feedback we received W.this recent request here in
10:37:23 November I think we are at the stage where we need to
10:37:26 move forward with this.
10:37:27 And primarily, the biggest step is going to be
10:37:30 establishing these boundaries.
10:37:31 You saw the overall grid map of the entire Soho
10:37:35 district area but we need to be more specific and deal
10:37:38 with the specific residential street.
10:37:40 And I missed your second question there.
10:37:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It was a comment on the meters,
10:37:47 that I didn't think that alleviated the concern, I
10:37:49 thought it -- I think what we need to do is build
10:37:53 structured parking and that's really my question to
10:37:55 you, to really explore that.
10:37:58 You have some land.
10:37:59 >> We partnered with the real estate department here
10:38:03 this past year, and we lad at some critical sites that
10:38:06 the real estate had suggested.
10:38:08 And primarily, what the sites -- they did not
10:38:13 necessarily provide the square footage to necessarily
10:38:16 build an appropriate garage with appropriate ramping.
10:38:20 The challenge is, I believe, the property that we saw
10:38:23 at the corner of Cleveland and South Howard was that
10:38:27 the depth of the property does not accommodate an ADA
10:38:31 acceptable ramping system to get from a ground level
10:38:34 garage to the next level.
10:38:36 Because it's only roughly about 150-foot deep, it
10:38:40 doesn't meet ADA requirements there.
10:38:43 But again, that's the one property that was brought
10:38:46 So as you suggested, there may be some other sites
10:38:48 that we need to look at.
10:38:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So what do we have to do to get to
10:38:53 you do that?
10:38:54 >>> We need to get together with the real estate
10:38:56 department and begin to take a second look at what
10:38:58 else is out there, and the property that you suggested
10:39:01 may be the first place to look.
10:39:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is a commitment made 15 years
10:39:09 ago to this neighborhood to identify additional
10:39:11 parking, to support this entertainment uses along
10:39:16 We originally tried to look at some property jays apt
10:39:19 to the Crosstown.
10:39:20 But we never got our act together and the money
10:39:23 This is ages ago.
10:39:24 This is when Elton Smith was the traffic manager.
10:39:27 But this neighborhood has been promised for over a
10:39:30 So you should move as expeditiously as possible.
10:39:36 >>> Hi.
10:39:41 >>MARY MULHERN: Hi.
10:39:42 I have a lot of questions so I'm not sure if I have
10:39:44 any questions for you, Jim.
10:39:46 I'm waiting to hear from Walter because he has all the
10:39:49 But I live in this neighborhood.
10:39:51 I drive up and down Howard-Armenia all the time and
10:39:55 walk and roller blade and ride my bike.
10:39:57 And here's what I can tell you.
10:40:01 First of all, there's all kind of parking available
10:40:03 there that no one is using, but Cathy, that was great
10:40:09 to see Sweetbay, that parking lot.
10:40:12 All you need is a parking attendant and somebody can
10:40:14 be making some money on weekends parking people in
10:40:18 that parking lot on Swann.
10:40:20 So that doesn't need to be a public-private
10:40:24 It just needs to be somebody with a little sense to
10:40:27 figure out how to make some money parking people
10:40:30 We have also got the new Publix going in, which I
10:40:34 don't think is going to be 24 hours, in which the
10:40:38 neighborhood agreed to have there that's going to have
10:40:40 a parking garage, and I don't know that that's going
10:40:43 to have -- that parking garage will be full every
10:40:48 night but that should become available.
10:40:49 And they could, you know, make some money off of that.
10:40:53 Then we have the lovely new Bern's hotel which used to
10:41:00 be a large parking lot but now it has a parking garage
10:41:04 with bright lights that we drive by every day.
10:41:07 So I don't know what's going on there, but in the
10:41:10 interim Bern's could be letting people going to the
10:41:12 Howard Avenue establishments park there.
10:41:15 So there's all kinds of places to park.
10:41:17 They don't have to park on these residential side
10:41:23 Then the second thing is, I don't think we need
10:41:25 parking meters.
10:41:26 There's all kinds of different solutions.
10:41:28 But, you know, the logical solution that I know Walter
10:41:32 and a lot of us have been talking about for awhile --
10:41:37 and I lived in Chicago for years, and this absolutely
10:41:41 You don't need to do a study.
10:41:43 You don't need to ask anyone if it's going to work.
10:41:45 You give residential parking permits to the people who
10:41:47 live there.
10:41:48 You put up "no parking, you will be towed" signs and
10:41:55 then you tow those cars.
10:41:57 As soon as you get your car towed while you are at a
10:42:00 bar, you come out, you have to pay to get your car
10:42:03 back, you are going to stop doing that.
10:42:04 That's a very quick, simple solution.
10:42:06 I'm sure we have to talk to lawyers.
10:42:08 There's nothing we don't have to talk to lawyers
10:42:13 We are happy, I'm sure, to rewrite whatever we need to
10:42:16 in the code to make that workable.
10:42:19 Then one other thing I wanted to say is, this isn't
10:42:23 about parking but this is about traffic in that
10:42:28 And it really a question, I guess, for transportation.
10:42:33 We are getting that new Publix there.
10:42:37 And that store is surrounded by one-way streets.
10:42:40 And I'm just wondering if anyone has asked about
10:42:45 redoing those streets, because it's going to just be
10:42:50 difficult for them -- it going to be difficult for
10:42:52 them, I think, for them to get people in and out of
10:42:58 there to shop, when they have to drive in circles.
10:43:00 And through alleys and all that.
10:43:04 So I was just wondering if we heard if that has come
10:43:08 up as a discussion, all those one-way streets around
10:43:11 Platt, Armenia, Howard -- no?
10:43:24 >>> Tony Rodriguez, transportation division.
10:43:27 We are certainly willing to work with the neighborhood
10:43:34 and the Publix developer on any sort of
10:43:37 reconfiguration of the roadways.
10:43:41 A lot of these issues in the neighborhood, it will
10:43:46 continue to be a process.
10:43:50 As the area has morphed from neighborhood commercial,
10:43:54 when I was young and growing up here in Tampa,
10:43:59 neighborhood commercial, primarily day uses along
10:44:03 Howard Avenue, and it's gone from a dining district,
10:44:06 and now it's morphing into this entertainment
10:44:09 district, and these are just different demographics of
10:44:12 people that are coming into these areas.
10:44:14 The entertainment district folks tend to stay longer,
10:44:17 tend to stay later, and it creates more impact on the
10:44:21 But we are certainly along with the parking division
10:44:27 looking at all these options, looking at structures
10:44:31 going up as well as the LDC also with the Bern's site.
10:44:35 These are great opportunities for us to help alleviate
10:44:39 some of these.
10:44:40 >>MARY MULHERN: At least in the short-term.
10:44:43 There's a lot of places to park and there's businesses
10:44:45 that could cooperate and, you know, make some money
10:44:49 off parking.
10:44:50 So I don't understand why they are not doing that.
10:44:52 And if there's anything we can do to encourage that.
10:44:56 >>> Certainly.
10:44:57 >> And maybe the neighborhood should just be talking
10:44:59 to them, if they probably already are.
10:45:01 >>> And the neighborhood association just did a
10:45:04 wonderful job in working, with the Publix developer
10:45:09 getting that neighborhood will benefit greatly from a
10:45:16 sidewalk network because the neighborhood's
10:45:18 interaction with that developer, and using the city
10:45:22 resources to make that all happen.
10:45:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Then there's one other thing, and
10:45:28 maybe this is what I might suggest to Jim or Tony.
10:45:32 But when we look at this beautiful graph that Cathy
10:45:38 made, Westland is off the courthouse.
10:45:42 With how many 130 cars parked there on a weeknight,
10:45:47 it's not a very long block, but there's some of these
10:45:50 street, you know, could you say Westland, Albany,
10:45:55 Melville, and then it looks like Armenia and moody,
10:46:00 But even those three streets, or even if you just
10:46:02 started with Westland, if you tried the parking
10:46:05 permit, and towing, you know, towing there, see how it
10:46:13 See if we can get started with something.
10:46:14 A pilot project on Westland to see if that would work.
10:46:20 >>> That's certainly worth other discussion.
10:46:23 I would want to engage the neighborhood in that and
10:46:25 the statistics are what they are.
10:46:27 There's no doubt that there is a problem there.
10:46:29 But I think it's very important that we establish
10:46:31 these boundaries first before we go in that direction.
10:46:34 I'm quite sure they are already included in the
10:46:36 boundaries as we speak.
10:46:38 I would rather prefer that we stick to our policy and
10:46:40 have the community completely engaged in every step
10:46:43 that we take at this point.
10:46:44 >>MARY MULHERN: Did we hear like what the next step
10:46:48 is, or are we deciding that today?
10:46:49 >>> The next step for residential parking program
10:46:52 would be to actually work with the neighborhood that
10:46:55 submitted the request to us and established a meeting
10:46:58 to determine what their boundaries are and what their
10:47:01 parking concerns are at this point.
10:47:03 Once we would have that community meeting, we would
10:47:06 engage the transportation folks to do a review of the
10:47:10 streets within that boundary.
10:47:12 We want to make sure that there's appropriate paved
10:47:17 widths not only for traffic lanes but for parking
10:47:20 Many of these streets are approved for 50-foot
10:47:22 rights-of-way but they may only have 15-foot of
10:47:25 And if you are going to create parking on one side of
10:47:27 the street, you have to certainly engage
10:47:30 transportation in their valuation of how that would
10:47:33 affect the roadway.
10:47:34 >> So right now we are having parking on both sides?
10:47:36 >>> That's correct.
10:47:37 But as you saw also on the presentation there are no
10:47:39 parking signs that have been installed, and TPD has
10:47:42 been writing ticket on that on a regular basis, on
10:47:46 these problematic nights.
10:47:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: councilman Miranda.
10:47:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I agree with some things that have
10:47:58 been said.
10:47:59 But I don't like it right now at the stage we are in
10:48:02 taking anything off the table.
10:48:03 I I think you have to have a comprehensive approach,
10:48:08 including what I agreed with Ms. Mulhern about a pilot
10:48:11 program to take one street as a possible step.
10:48:15 I don't like to at this time take a quantum leap
10:48:18 forward and have to take two steps backwards three or
10:48:21 four months down the road.
10:48:24 Including the parking meters.
10:48:25 And let me say, right now, some individuals, whether
10:48:31 they are employees or those that like to go to have
10:48:35 what we call a little fun, a couple of drinks or
10:48:38 whatever they call it, might be staying four, five
10:48:43 And that certainly doesn't have a circulatory move.
10:48:46 And when that happens to my mind, it throws more and
10:48:49 more cars into the neighborhood.
10:48:52 If you had like a parking meter where you can stay in,
10:48:56 you can certainly have dinner and whatever else you
10:48:58 are going to do there, a brew -- notice I didn't say
10:49:02 alcohol -- a brew for an hour or so, and leave happy,
10:49:07 not drunk but happy, you won't have that many cars
10:49:12 going into the neighborhood.
10:49:13 These are just suggestions.
10:49:14 But I don't want to take one component out.
10:49:17 Why is it we don't have enough parking?
10:49:19 Well, I would imagine that most of the land there is
10:49:21 not owned by the city, it's owned by private
10:49:24 As Ms. Coyle said earlier, we need to maybe form some
10:49:28 type of a public-private arrangement, so things work
10:49:34 But these things take time.
10:49:35 However, that being said, under the economic situation
10:49:38 that we are in today, it might take a little shorter
10:49:43 time than longer time because people need to get
10:49:45 something done on the properties that are vacant.
10:49:48 I'm sure that Publix -- and the way that they think --
10:49:53 certainly did all their due diligence that they know
10:49:57 what to do.
10:49:58 Publix has not built stores just to say I opened
10:50:02 another Publix.
10:50:02 They do a due diligence, they do their own traffic,
10:50:06 they do their own patterns, they meet with
10:50:09 When they move in, they know they are going to be
10:50:11 I mean, it's a great operation, and kudos to those
10:50:17 that do that at Publix.
10:50:19 So I don't know what is best, whether it's single,
10:50:23 wide, or narrow, or one-way or two-way or five-way, or
10:50:27 whatever you want to call it.
10:50:28 But Publix did their due diligence.
10:50:31 So what I'm saying is, let not throw anything off the
10:50:33 table right now, and let's leave it open.
10:50:37 I do agree that we need a pilot program to start this.
10:50:41 And maybe the pilot program can include some metering
10:50:47 to see if that helps alleviate the problems where
10:50:49 people don't stay that long.
10:50:50 It helps not only the city, it helps the neighborhood,
10:50:52 and in my mind certainly helps the business.
10:50:54 A lot of cars leave because they can't park.
10:50:57 And if that space was open and somebody drives by,
10:51:00 they finally move in, they know they have two hours.
10:51:03 So I think it could be a win situation for all.
10:51:07 But I'm not an expert in parking.
10:51:09 But I knew one thing.
10:51:11 I travel Westland, Albany, Azeele, Horatio, DeLeon,
10:51:17 and Melville at night, and I don't drive a semi.
10:51:20 I drive a Volkswagen.
10:51:22 And it's almost impossible to navigate that little car
10:51:27 in that neighborhood.
10:51:28 So I understand, and I have compassion for the
10:51:31 neighbors what they have been saying.
10:51:33 And here's what we are trying to solve.
10:51:37 These problems have been created little by also for
10:51:40 the last 15, 20 years.
10:51:42 We are not going to solve them in 15, 20 minutes.
10:51:44 But I think this is a start.
10:51:46 I think this is exactly what we need, conversation
10:51:49 between those that are most effected, that live there,
10:51:52 and the traffic department, see how they can solve it.
10:51:56 Maybe you ought to ask the neighbors since they live
10:51:59 there, what do they think?
10:52:00 I'm sure you have.
10:52:02 What do they think about a pilot program?
10:52:06 What do they think about meters?
10:52:07 Ask that to the business people themselves.
10:52:09 And I think you are going to be surprised that both
10:52:12 are going to be about the same line, telling you that
10:52:14 this is what we need to solve it.
10:52:16 I wouldn't want to own a business there now and be
10:52:19 hassled with my customers being mad at me because they
10:52:22 can't find parking.
10:52:23 I was in business in that neighborhood or close by for
10:52:25 a long time on Kennedy and Melville and it was very
10:52:30 We had our own parking.
10:52:34 Wide we had more parking than we had chairs.
10:52:37 So what I'm saying is this now, in time and date,
10:52:42 parking is the most successful thing for a business.
10:52:45 But that's my suggestion, Mr. Chairman.
10:52:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:52:47 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to say one thing.
10:52:51 I think the parking meter idea is a good idea on
10:52:54 Howard and Armenia and Platt.
10:52:56 I was just thinking of the side streets.
10:52:58 >> Oh, I understand.
10:53:02 >>MARY MULHERN: Just like you wouldn't want a parking
10:53:05 meter on your street.
10:53:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other comments, questions?
10:53:10 Anyone from the public to address council may come
10:53:12 forward, state your name and address for the record.
10:53:16 Three minutes.
10:53:20 >>> Walter Crumbley.
10:53:21 I'm the president of Courier City Oscawana homeowners
10:53:27 Now going into my third year of meetings about our
10:53:30 parking problems.
10:53:34 It's a pleasure to work with the transportation
10:53:37 We had lots of meetings and they are very good at
10:53:39 coming up with more problems than solutions.
10:53:43 Let me speak first to parking on Howard Avenue, and
10:53:47 parking meters.
10:53:49 Forget it.
10:53:50 It's a waste of time.
10:53:51 You are only talking about 15 or so parking spaces.
10:53:56 And there isn't any parking space on that street or
10:53:59 room for parking space on that street except in the
10:54:02 300 block, and the 200 block.
10:54:07 The idea of moving the two-way thing in the 300 block
10:54:15 is a good idea.
10:54:16 You should also do it in the 200 block.
10:54:19 I say that because everybody comes down Cleveland, if
10:54:24 they want to go south, they cut through.
10:54:27 If they could turn left there, and have a straight
10:54:31 shot down everywhere else then they wouldn't be
10:54:37 cutting through our neighborhood so much.
10:54:40 Signs are nice.
10:54:42 It really a wonderful thing.
10:54:45 As fast as the city puts them up, the drunks tear them
10:54:49 My wife has a mission twice a week to ride through the
10:54:52 neighborhood and call the transportation department
10:54:54 and tell them about all the no-parking signs that are
10:54:57 torn down, all the stop signs that are torn down and
10:55:01 vanished and misappropriated.
10:55:05 So if you are going to put up signs, you have got to
10:55:07 make sure they stay up.
10:55:09 And one way you do that is to plant them in concrete,
10:55:13 which I understand they finally decided maybe we
10:55:16 should be doing that.
10:55:23 Private parking and partnerships with private parking.
10:55:27 The Publix people are not going to let the drunks use
10:55:30 their parking lot.
10:55:32 It's a very, very simple issue.
10:55:34 I'm a lawyer.
10:55:35 Some of you all are lawyers.
10:55:37 There's a little viability issue in there.
10:55:40 When somebody gets hurt in the parking lot they are
10:55:42 going to sue the guy that owns the lot.
10:55:46 So there you go.
10:55:47 There's your problem.
10:55:51 Whether or not they can solve that with some sort of
10:55:54 hold harmless agreement, who knows?
10:55:58 Ms. Saul-Sena came up with the idea about the parking
10:56:03 I have been suggesting two different sites to the
10:56:07 transportation department for years.
10:56:10 The one that she mentioned at the corner of Azeele and
10:56:13 Armenia, the other one over by the Hyde Park
10:56:18 playground which is another retention pond backs up to
10:56:22 the interstate, wouldn't be a blight on the
10:56:25 neighborhood or anything like that.
10:56:27 Both of those sites are available and the city could
10:56:32 easily build parking garages.
10:56:34 Memorial Hospital has got a half a city block covered
10:56:38 with covered retention pond.
10:56:39 This is not rocket science.
10:56:42 It can be done.
10:56:51 Let me say also that I cannot say enough good things
10:56:53 about the City of Tampa police department.
10:56:55 (Bell sounds).
10:56:57 They have been out there and done everything they can.
10:57:01 I have met with Major Honeywell and many of his
10:57:04 officers, and since July of 2006, when they suggested
10:57:09 I put up a five-minute parking sign in front of my
10:57:13 house, as of last night, I have managed to get into
10:57:18 this city 351 parking ticket for over $10,000.
10:57:24 If you want to fund this thing, I have got you a good
10:57:27 head start on it.
10:57:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
10:57:31 Any questions?
10:57:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is there anything else specifically
10:57:37 that you can recommend to have our staff look at?
10:57:41 >>> I would think the idea that came up for the first
10:57:44 time today of a pilot project for Westland is a great
10:57:49 I think that's something that we can do.
10:57:52 I would say also that if you are going to have no
10:57:59 parking for resident parking that it be towaway.
10:58:05 Don't mean a thing to -- tickets don't mean a thing to
10:58:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:58:09 Next speaker.
10:58:12 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I have a couple of very specific
10:58:15 suggestions for you to ask the staff to look at.
10:58:18 First of all, parking meters aren't going to help
10:58:23 All they are going to do is drive people further into
10:58:27 the neighborhood.
10:58:28 It's simply not feasible.
10:58:29 Problem is initiated because not just the businesses
10:58:32 don't have enough parking, the residences don't have
10:58:34 enough parking.
10:58:35 Many of those homes and the apartment buildings that
10:58:37 are built on those streets have no parking.
10:58:41 And so they all park on the street.
10:58:43 I mean, it's just a fact of life.
10:58:46 It been that way for ages.
10:58:47 So when you start trying to take park ago way, be
10:58:50 careful because all you are doing is pushing it
10:58:53 further into some of the other streets.
10:58:54 The problem is on west land now is going to be on
10:58:57 Albany tomorrow.
10:58:58 And then it's going to be on Willow.
10:59:00 And then it's going to be further down.
10:59:03 When you go in for your permits, don't require these
10:59:06 businesses to remove the parking.
10:59:08 There are historic parking spaces that back in the
10:59:13 right-of-way, they are on the right-of-way, and you
10:59:14 have to remove them.
10:59:15 So the way to address that is to revise your technical
10:59:18 standards, and don't make these businesses when they
10:59:21 come in for renovation, change of use or change of
10:59:24 occupancy, don't mach them take the parking out that's
10:59:27 already on the street.
10:59:29 Or the parking doesn't meat current standards.
10:59:31 When do you that, then you are you are starting to
10:59:34 tear down the houses behind these businesses to create
10:59:36 parking lots.
10:59:37 You saw that happen already on some of the other
10:59:39 Don't let it happen here.
10:59:43 As far as the garage is concerned and handicapped
10:59:45 accessibility, your handicapped parking belongs on the
10:59:48 ground floor, not on the upper levels.
10:59:50 So the ramp, whatever the ramp elevations are,
10:59:53 whatever the degrees of the ramp, they don't have to
10:59:57 apply for handicapped parking.
10:59:59 You put them on the ground level.
11:00:00 And doesn't apply for access on the upper levels.
11:00:05 Neighborhoods don't operate in isolation.
11:00:07 They operate in concert with these commercial
11:00:10 We all know where the problem commercial business is.
11:00:14 Businesses know it.
11:00:14 The neighbors know it.
11:00:15 And we have jointly gone to that specific business and
11:00:18 asked them to try to do something about it.
11:00:21 And to date they have done nothing to correct the
11:00:23 It's not all of the businesses.
11:00:25 It's one or two.
11:00:27 Also, there's Soho directors association that sits on
11:00:31 the governing board for the entire Soho commercial
11:00:34 It's made up of business owners, and residents.
11:00:39 I recommend if you are going to have neighborhood
11:00:40 meetings that you start calling that director's
11:00:44 association and have them involved as well, not just
11:00:46 the residential portion of the component.
11:00:52 Shared parking for day-night use has got to be used
11:00:55 instead of just eliminating it because you can't use
11:00:58 it in the daytime.
11:00:59 The commercial businesses can use some of the parking
11:01:02 at nature.
11:01:05 Engage the bicycle officers and TPD on the heavy
11:01:10 For example, on Thursday and Friday nights.
11:01:14 We used to have bicycle police officers riding around
11:01:16 instead of in their patrol cars.
11:01:19 And the fifth thing is to alternate the parking on
11:01:21 either side of these streets, allow no parking on one
11:01:24 side, parking on the other and alternate it from block
11:01:27 to block.
11:01:28 But you don't have the cars parking on both sides
11:01:30 Anyway, the technical standards are a key element in
11:01:35 And as long as you have the strict enforcement of
11:01:37 those technical standards and the requirements over
11:01:40 construction services, the businesses will never be
11:01:44 able to survive.
11:01:45 Thank you.
11:01:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Michelini.
11:01:52 >>> Tom Ortiz, 1806 West Platt street.
11:01:56 I have had the pleasure of working on some of the
11:01:58 parking problems in the area for the past two years
11:02:02 when I moved down to Soho in the 309 block.
11:02:07 In working with the neighborhood and some of the
11:02:08 businesses, I would like to outline some of the
11:02:10 challenges that I have seen from differences from what
11:02:13 I have had on my 1806 block which is on Platt Street
11:02:18 where we have worked in conjunction with local
11:02:20 businesses to do the shared parking.
11:02:23 One of the biggest challenges for shared parking as
11:02:26 Walter a lauded to is the liability issue.
11:02:29 And unfortunately we had an opportunity with Publix
11:02:32 when they first came in to utilize their parking lot,
11:02:35 but when the store was moved to the first floor
11:02:39 instead of on the third floor we lost that
11:02:42 So unfortunately Publix is not going to be someone we
11:02:46 are going to be able to go to parking due to the
11:02:49 liability issue.
11:02:49 Same hold true for Sweetbay.
11:02:52 Having been an owner of whiskey Soho, up with of the
11:02:55 challenges that we faced at Sweetbay was when Sweetbay
11:02:58 closed during their hours, they started closing mid
11:03:02 nature to 1:00, at that time they started to tow
11:03:05 vehicles because they didn't want the liability of the
11:03:06 store being responsible for anybody, parking after
11:03:10 So we do face some challenges with some of the
11:03:13 The other challenge is there's really no incentive for
11:03:17 those businesses right now that are meeting parking
11:03:21 requirements, but by minimum standards.
11:03:23 The reality is for a restaurant that if you are only
11:03:26 required, say, 20 parking spaces, and you meat code
11:03:29 requirement, that doesn't many you are going to meet
11:03:32 the requirement of the needs of your guests, and
11:03:35 therefore now what you are having to do is you have to
11:03:36 make a choice of taking from whatever money that you
11:03:39 are making or not making and go out and rent
11:03:42 additional parking for your guests because you know
11:03:44 you are going to need an overflow.
11:03:46 There's no incentive creditwise from the codes to give
11:03:52 us business owners the incentive to go out and find
11:03:56 more parking.
11:03:56 I will give you an example of what Mr. Michelini was
11:03:59 talking about, as some of the businesses that right
11:04:01 now, when they go in to do a remodel or a change of
11:04:05 use, they are getting hit with having to bring parking
11:04:08 into compliance which means they eliminate probably
11:04:10 75% of their parking because it's all parking that was
11:04:14 existing parking from back 20 years ago.
11:04:16 So now what they face is, if I do any renovations to
11:04:20 my building I am going to lose parking.
11:04:22 I am going to have no incentive to go find parking
11:04:25 because I don't get credit for it because it's outside
11:04:27 the distance requirement, I don't get credit for it
11:04:29 because in a one is going to give me a long-term lease
11:04:32 that the city is going to approve so I can get credit
11:04:34 to do my change of use.
11:04:36 So there are multiple challenges on the business front
11:04:38 to go out and find additional parking.
11:04:41 We currently have over 1,000 parking space that is we
11:04:45 either rent or own from Howard Avenue and Swann all
11:04:49 the way through to Kennedy and Armenia.
11:04:53 We have been a proponent for parking.
11:04:55 We find that it's a necessity.
11:04:57 But we still have received no credit for it.
11:04:59 We have only received the fact we know we need it from
11:05:02 our business venture and from our guests.
11:05:06 But one of our locations was in need of 55 parking
11:05:11 We went out and bought a parking locality which is the
11:05:14 one that we proposed to the city on the corner of
11:05:16 Cleveland and Howard to meet our parking requirement.
11:05:20 And it fell short of the distance requirement, so
11:05:23 therefore we have been sitting for almost a year and a
11:05:24 half with the inability to use the change of use on
11:05:28 the property.
11:05:29 So in closing just to say that I appreciate what the
11:05:33 neighborhood has done.
11:05:34 They have been awesome in working with the businesses
11:05:36 and trying to work through these issues.
11:05:38 City has taken on a major role in getting involved.
11:05:41 They have been off the job as well.
11:05:42 And when just hope we can work through these solutions
11:05:44 together and make that Soho better than what it is
11:05:48 Thank you.
11:05:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
11:05:50 Anyone else from the public?
11:05:54 Anything else from staff?
11:05:56 Nothing --
11:05:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Let me just say one thing.
11:05:59 I think that we have got to keep in mind, I think what
11:06:03 we were addressing was the problem that the residents
11:06:06 in the neighborhood could have, in their residential
11:06:10 streets, on the residential streets, with parking and
11:06:16 nuisance, and I think that, you know, it's not our
11:06:21 problem to find parking for commercial establishments.
11:06:26 That's their responsibility.
11:06:27 But as far as making sure that residents of the
11:06:32 neighborhood can park on their own street, and that
11:06:39 their guests and their visitors can park there.
11:06:42 I did get one e-mail while we were sitting here from
11:06:45 someone who wanted to make the point that she's a
11:06:48 single family in this neighborhood and she does not
11:06:52 have any off-Street parking for her house, so she has
11:06:55 to park on the street.
11:06:56 So I think that having the residential parking
11:07:00 permits, and people who are not permitted to park
11:07:02 there are getting towed seems to me to be the only
11:07:05 solution, immediate solution, but encourage you again
11:07:11 to go with a pilot project on that one street that has
11:07:16 far too many people parking there and see how that
11:07:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano, then councilman
11:07:22 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The last gentleman that spoke,
11:07:25 can I ask you a question?
11:07:26 You said you have Cleveland and Howard you had a piece
11:07:31 Why did you fall short?
11:07:32 What was the problem?
11:07:33 >>> At that location, the distance requirement, we
11:07:36 were 500 feet away from the proposed use, and
11:07:40 therefore we were not allowed to utilize the parking,
11:07:45 so we have been waiting for the last almost two years
11:07:47 for the new owners to come into effect which is the
11:07:50 1,000 foot rule which hopefully at that point we would
11:07:55 be able to utilize that particular lot.
11:07:57 But in all honesty after working with the
11:07:59 neighborhood, and I am a resident of the neighborhood
11:08:01 and have been for 13 years as well as a business owner
11:08:03 in the neighborhood, but the problem is not just
11:08:05 residential, it's both commercial and residential.
11:08:08 I propose the city to give that parking lot, or that
11:08:13 lot to the city for a greater cause, which is to build
11:08:16 a parking garage, and we came out with an out of the
11:08:19 box idea that we met with the city with and they were
11:08:23 all for it and asked me to come today to speak about
11:08:26 it because if I took the 55 parking spaces that I
11:08:30 could get there, I only have myself.
11:08:31 I don't help the neighborhood, I don't help anybody
11:08:34 Putting a parking garage on that particular lot helps
11:08:37 And that's what we found in having to wait for this
11:08:42 thousand foot requirement.
11:08:42 >> How large is that particular lot?
11:08:45 >> It's 20,000 square feet.
11:08:46 >> 20,000 square feet?
11:08:49 >>> Yes, sir.
11:08:50 >> What did you want to put, a parking garage there?
11:08:53 >>> We wanted to co-op with the city and put a parking
11:08:56 First analysis said we could probably do 200 parking
11:08:59 spaces, potentially 250.
11:09:01 >> I just had my aide call someone who is in that
11:09:06 You could put 80 cars on a floor, on a 20-thousand
11:09:10 square foot parking garage.
11:09:12 And I don't know why the city doesn't move.
11:09:16 Of course, the city doesn't move all the time in the
11:09:18 proper direction.
11:09:19 You have small businesses there struggling.
11:09:22 And maybe that distance could be waived by the city,
11:09:27 if it's going to alleviate some of the problems here.
11:09:30 Because it's tough being in business when you are not
11:09:33 going to get clients to come in and have a place to
11:09:37 park, they are not going to come.
11:09:38 >>> Sir, if I may say, we have one business on the
11:09:41 street that has not been able to open since August of
11:09:43 last year because of the change of use, and it cannot
11:09:46 meet the parking requirement.
11:09:47 So that young lady is sitting there with her business
11:09:50 closed to date because she does not meet the city's
11:09:53 parking requirements.
11:09:55 Another location that just recently opened where they
11:09:58 were only allowed to get ten seats in their
11:10:00 restaurant, and one of the adjoining spaces to that
11:10:05 strip center had to be closed and no longer can be
11:10:07 rented because they don't meet parking requirements.
11:10:10 So unfortunately the businesses out there are
11:10:12 bleeding, and I know there are a lot of businesses
11:10:15 that are like me that want to --
11:10:17 We are going to have to cut.
11:10:20 We don't have time.
11:10:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I think the administration needs
11:10:24 to look at parking garages.
11:10:25 Let's not waste time because you are going to affect
11:10:28 the residents.
11:10:30 And of course these residents, when they built those
11:10:33 houses, it wasn't required to have parking.
11:10:37 And of course years later, your businesses came in.
11:10:40 And then everybody is being affected, the residents
11:10:42 and the businesses.
11:10:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
11:10:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I was out last week and I very much
11:10:51 appreciated City Council putting off the technical
11:10:53 standards vote.
11:10:53 But I'm not clear.
11:10:55 We have never scheduled a workshop discussion on
11:10:57 technical standards.
11:11:00 And the issues that were brought up, I don't know if
11:11:02 they are in or not in the new technical standards so
11:11:05 when that he that comes back on our agenda for June
11:11:07 5th, I would like to be briefed ahead of time and
11:11:10 I would like for all of council to know whether the
11:11:13 concerns about counting existing spaces and use change
11:11:17 whether that is or isn't in our technical standards.
11:11:20 That's first of all.
11:11:21 Secondly, there were about eight proposals that came
11:11:26 before us today.
11:11:27 And I am concerned that we move ahead with these.
11:11:30 So what I would like to do is request a report, it can
11:11:33 be a written report, in 30 days, with the proposal
11:11:37 before us and a time frame on when week anticipate
11:11:42 some action on those things.
11:11:43 Tuesday, June 25th we have a council workshop.
11:11:47 I don't need staff.
11:11:48 I just need to have a written report at that time with
11:11:51 all the proposals, and what the anticipated time frame
11:11:53 would be.
11:11:54 That's a motion.
11:11:56 Could somebody second it?
11:11:59 >> It's moved and seconded.
11:12:00 (Motion carried)
11:12:05 Thank you very much.
11:12:06 That will conclude our workshop on item 3 and 4.
11:12:12 Thank you very much.
11:12:13 Council, we will take up our last item for the day,
11:12:16 item 5.
11:12:17 And then we will probably need to make a motion on
11:12:19 item 6 when we finish item 5.
11:12:22 I am going to have my aide pass out to all of you a
11:12:27 copy -- and I'm sure you got my memo about the
11:12:31 proposed changes I'm recommending to council in terms
11:12:33 of our agenda.
11:12:42 I did meat with Julia Cole.
11:12:45 And Marty Shelby to review our agenda to talk about
11:12:52 the structure and making sure we fall within the
11:12:54 guidelines legally.
11:12:57 And so what I have proposed, what I have done is had
11:13:03 my aide Linda pass out both agendas, the larger one,
11:13:08 29 pages, was the one we went through last Thursday.
11:13:15 And the thinner one southbound the one that I had
11:13:17 Linda prepare, one to show you, there are 29 pages
11:13:22 under the last weak's agenda, versus the same agenda,
11:13:26 and we got 11 pages.
11:13:29 And on the eleven pages four of them are informational
11:13:31 items, not including our calendar Information item.
11:13:35 So I just want to call your attention to that, given
11:13:38 the budget constraints that we have, that we can save
11:13:40 a lot of money just on paper.
11:13:42 So I want to point that out.
11:13:44 >> And it's green.
11:13:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yeah.
11:13:48 And the handout, that I have given to you in a
11:13:56 memorandum, really shows the structure that we like to
11:13:59 see, only one in the memorandum that I handed out
11:14:03 there's only one omission.
11:14:05 You got it, the public comments.
11:14:09 So the proposed order of agenda would be the approval
11:14:12 of the agenda, public comment, and request for
11:14:15 reconsideration for legislative matters, then we have
11:14:19 a committee report and the consent agenda, and then
11:14:22 second reading, public hearing, 10 a.m., staff report,
11:14:28 and of course you have a lot of staff reports we have
11:14:33 been requesting for some reason, then land use hearing
11:14:35 which would include your easement, wet zoning, appeals
11:14:38 to 1:30 in the afternoon.
11:14:40 Now, I know you all think, at least commented to me,
11:14:44 that you are accustomed to getting out before noon.
11:14:48 I have been here a year and that has not happened.
11:14:50 What happens is you have all these people sitting
11:14:52 around in the morning waiting all morning, and then we
11:14:54 break for lunch and come back afternoon, they are
11:14:57 here, and getting out at 3:30.
11:15:05 So I'm proposing these changes.
11:15:07 The one recipe, also, you know, you talk about is that
11:15:10 you move your commendation to the CRA meeting in the
11:15:18 morning first thing at 9:00 and that will free up
11:15:21 another 20 to 30 minutes of time as well.
11:15:23 So that suggestion recommendation is up to council if
11:15:27 you want to move forward on it.
11:15:31 >>GWEN MILLER: That I have to comment on.
11:15:34 CRA being you are going to add more to that, then
11:15:39 that's going to make us spend more time and I think it
11:15:41 would be more effective if when keep our
11:15:43 accommodations on council date when a lot of people
11:15:47 come to see the commendations.
11:15:49 They like to see the officer and the fire department
11:15:51 getting their commendation.
11:15:52 It's just something that really the community has
11:15:54 gotten involved in, and I think we need to leave it
11:15:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman,
11:16:00 for developing what I think will be a really clear,
11:16:03 efficient agenda.
11:16:04 I feel like last year we made a lot of progress after
11:16:07 our staff retreat -- I mean our council retreat in
11:16:11 terms of refine wag we do when, and I feel like this
11:16:14 is yet another evolutionary step in being a tamely,
11:16:19 efficient council.
11:16:20 I think it's excellent.
11:16:21 And to speak to the issues that Ms. Miller brought up.
11:16:25 CRA meetings generally involve many fewer players than
11:16:28 regular council meetings.
11:16:29 And in terms of inconveniencing people, and treating
11:16:33 people efficiently, I think that your recommendation
11:16:36 that when do the commendations on CRA days, I think
11:16:40 it's an excellent suggestion.
11:16:41 I personally think that if we don't do that, we should
11:16:45 consider doing our commendations at 8:45, because they
11:16:49 do take time, and I hate to see council days pushed
11:16:54 even later.
11:16:55 But perhaps when should wait for that particular
11:16:57 decision until we have a fuller council, because there
11:17:00 are only four of us here.
11:17:02 But all the other recommendations are great.
11:17:03 Plus good use of resources, fewer pages, it's
11:17:09 Thank you.
11:17:17 >>MARY MULHERN: I think I am going to have to bring my
11:17:20 reading glasses because I looked at it wrong.
11:17:22 But I think my question -- Gwen has a really good
11:17:24 point -- but if we were going to move those
11:17:27 commendations, would it also be on the workshop dates?
11:17:30 So you would have -- no?
11:17:32 Once per month?
11:17:33 We have them every --
11:17:36 >>> Every two weeks now.
11:17:41 So it would be not as awesome.
11:17:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Another comment, too. We are trying
11:17:45 to -- if we would have staff and -- not come in as
11:17:50 often, we can get a written report, council members
11:17:52 can meet with the staff before, it's going to cut out
11:17:56 a lot.
11:17:57 That's what takes up a lot of time.
11:17:59 Sometimes we have 20 or 15 staff reports that have got
11:18:03 to come before us.
11:18:04 Then the council members, they go on and on asking
11:18:07 If you get this before you come to council meetings,
11:18:09 or get a written report, it will not be that lengthy.
11:18:12 And I think we can cut that out.
11:18:14 I will not go along with putting commendations on CRA.
11:18:18 CRA is to take care of the business in the community,
11:18:22 and the people hear that come to CRA, they are going
11:18:26 to have to sit here and go through all of that and I
11:18:29 don't think we should do that.
11:18:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I want to respond and say this.
11:18:34 CRA meetings are the shortest meetings right now, the
11:18:38 shortest meetings.
11:18:39 You only have about an hour and a half that you spend
11:18:41 in CRA.
11:18:46 But it is the shortest meeting, number one.
11:18:48 Number two is we have to look at which is -- you have
11:18:51 more time on that particular second Thursday of the
11:18:59 Then your most important information takes place on
11:19:03 your first and third meeting.
11:19:06 That to me is more important and gives more validity
11:19:11 to what we have been elected to do by the citizens of
11:19:16 Commendation is a secondary responsibility, in my
11:19:19 And so you need to keep that in mind. What is more
11:19:23 To me, the fact of taking care of the city's business
11:19:26 is more important and allowing the time to handle
11:19:29 that, and in shifting the CRA meeting now, you know,
11:19:34 it don't matter to me because I only have one vote.
11:19:36 I just want to be clear of that.
11:19:37 It don't matter to me.
11:19:39 But I think if you want more efficiency, and what I
11:19:41 have been noticing is that the longer the meeting
11:19:45 goes, all of a sudden people start leaving, you know,
11:19:51 and then we struggle with a quorum.
11:19:53 That becomes the issue for me.
11:19:55 As the chairman, you don't want to lose a quorum.
11:19:58 So that becomes an issue for me.
11:20:00 Okay, yes.
11:20:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a compromise suggestion that
11:20:02 might make everybody happy and that is we do our
11:20:05 accommodations on our workshop days.
11:20:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Weaver elected to do CRA, too.
11:20:13 These people elected to us take care of CRAs and
11:20:18 council day meetings.
11:20:19 We are not going to just run through CRA because we
11:20:22 want to do commendations.
11:20:26 Like this month CRA is going to be very, very lengthy.
11:20:30 There are going to be some times that you are going to
11:20:32 have commendations and we are still going to be
11:20:35 stressed out
11:20:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You can leave innocent you like.
11:20:48 I may leave myself.
11:20:50 We went from a council meeting every week to try to
11:20:54 facilitate and got better and quicker.
11:20:57 Look at yourself in the mirror.
11:20:58 I did this morning and we haven't gotten any quicker,
11:21:02 we haven't gotten any more expeditiously, we have not
11:21:06 reached our objectives.
11:21:07 And I believe in a strong chairmanship, and I believe
11:21:12 we have that, and I think it's up to you, when you hit
11:21:15 that gavel, if you have to hit a council member over
11:21:18 the head to get them straightened out and get them
11:21:21 going in the right direction.
11:21:27 Commendations take a minute amount of time when you
11:21:29 look at the scheme of things.
11:21:30 What takes the most time you look at right here.
11:21:32 >>GWEN MILLER: That's way say.
11:21:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It's us.
11:21:37 It ain't them.
11:21:38 These people have done something like the two
11:21:41 gentlemen this morning.
11:21:45 They should have the opportunity to come here,
11:21:48 whatever this council decides on, council day, on a
11:21:50 CRA day, whatever we can do.
11:21:55 The combinations are not the problem here.
11:21:57 We have to work to get this thing to be more quickly
11:22:07 resolving of the city problems, and I think we are
11:22:09 working in the right direction.
11:22:10 But that being said, we have wasted 20 minutes today
11:22:13 talking about when we are going to have this
11:22:16 commendation, during this council, during the other
11:22:18 council, during that meeting.
11:22:19 We have so many meetings here now, they think we are
11:22:24 We are here all the time.
11:22:25 Which is fine with me.
11:22:26 I got nothing else to do now.
11:22:31 But we have to ourselves look in the mirror and say
11:22:33 let's get this done.
11:22:36 And the other direction that I am going to follow,
11:22:38 Mr. Chairman, but I don't think changing this is going
11:22:40 to make it any more efficient than we are now.
11:22:41 >>MARY MULHERN: I think a couple people left kind of
11:22:48 proved your point, because a couple people left and
11:22:51 then came back, and those few minutes if we hadn't had
11:22:58 the commendation this morning people may have still
11:23:01 stayed here to get this morning meeting over with.
11:23:03 So I am going to go along with your point.
11:23:05 But I do think you are right, Charlie, that maybe what
11:23:08 we need is a time limit for us, a three-minute time
11:23:12 limit when we speak, or two.
11:23:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I believe that the objective of
11:23:19 City Council is not to be fast.
11:23:21 I served with Tom Vann as chairman.
11:23:24 Our meetings were like freight trains but the public
11:23:26 had no time to weigh in and counsel was very
11:23:29 Our city has grown.
11:23:31 Our issues are more complex.
11:23:32 And I think our responsibility to our citizens and our
11:23:35 businesses are such that when need to listen and
11:23:38 And so what I suggest is that it is not wasteful to
11:23:42 have conversations that Dale with our responsibility.
11:23:46 I think it's thorough and thoughtful.
11:23:48 And I think that in terms of helping the public meet
11:23:51 their time constraints, that having all the public
11:23:55 votes at 1:30 is most thoughtful of the public because
11:23:58 they know that they are coming back at 1:30.
11:24:01 Their issues will be addressed then.
11:24:03 And council will have had a chance to eat lunch and
11:24:05 will be in better mood.
11:24:07 So I think the proposed time frame is a quicker one.
11:24:12 >>GWEN MILLER: I still say staff reports, we don't
11:24:15 need 15 or 20 staff reports on a council date.
11:24:18 Some of those things can be resolved by getting a
11:24:20 written report, you meet with the staff, and we won't
11:24:23 be sitting here listening to all of that, and you
11:24:28 won't be making all that conversation, that Mr.
11:24:30 Miranda said we go on and on and on, and you could
11:24:32 have a written report and talk to them and discuss it.
11:24:36 We need to cut down on those staff reports.
11:24:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, again maybe I should
11:24:41 state, but I challenge any council member who is here
11:24:43 for any length of time to go back in the record from
11:24:45 the nineties to today and tell me that there's more
11:24:48 items on the agenda today than there were in the 90s
11:24:51 and the early 2000s.
11:24:54 They are equal to but not greater then.
11:24:56 There was more zoning then or equal to.
11:25:00 The same thing that happened is, we sometimes
11:25:03 department heads don't show because they are here four
11:25:05 or five hours.
11:25:06 They are here so long they get a retirement check
11:25:09 before we they go home.
11:25:11 It's incumbent upon us, and you, Mr. Chairman, to make
11:25:14 sure when you go the agenda, as soon as you go through
11:25:16 the three or four times of roll call, so forth and so
11:25:22 on, pledge of allegiance, the prayer and review the
11:25:25 records, ask the department heads to come forward to
11:25:27 speak on any item on the agenda.
11:25:29 It certainly would help the council out, to have that
11:25:32 information knowing that that directory is there, you
11:25:36 can ask those individuals the questions while they are
11:25:38 still here and say, well, they don't come, they
11:25:40 sentenced me a memo.
11:25:42 If I was a department head I wouldn't come either.
11:25:44 I would send awe memo because I have got work to do.
11:25:47 The public deserves those people working.
11:25:49 And it's not a reflection on you, sir, this is
11:25:51 something that's been on and on and on.
11:25:53 But you can change it with your direction and your
11:25:55 strength as leader.
11:25:58 >>MARY MULHERN: I think that's what he's trying to do
11:26:00 and he's given the staff a Tim certain here.
11:26:06 So they can get a lot of work done before 10:30 and
11:26:09 they can have the TV on and see if they need to get
11:26:11 over here.
11:26:13 But what I was going to say was that I think as the
11:26:22 chairman makes the agenda, you can make sure -- and as
11:26:26 we propose them, we can not put as many staff reports
11:26:30 on each meeting.
11:26:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the question hasn't been
11:26:40 answered yet, who sets the agenda?
11:26:42 Who sets the agenda?
11:26:43 Because when I meet, everything is set.
11:26:46 And I do a agenda review on Wednesday at, what, 11:30?
11:26:51 I don't have an opportunity to weigh in to change
11:26:54 Final agenda is set.
11:26:57 So who sets the agenda?
11:26:58 >> We just do the staff reports.
11:27:07 >>GWEN MILLER: That we can cut down.
11:27:08 Written reports and meet with staff.
11:27:10 We can cut that down.
11:27:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman, we as City Council
11:27:15 have the ability to set our agenda and in the many
11:27:17 years I have served we have been very passive and
11:27:19 allowed the administration to set the agenda to
11:27:21 address the things that they need, consented upon or
11:27:24 ruled upon, or technical standards changed.
11:27:26 But we have been very passive in terms of setting our
11:27:30 We have now made some improvements in it, and it's
11:27:33 something perhaps that Mr. Shelby can explain the
11:27:36 But we can say what we want to have as part of our
11:27:40 And I believe we have a workshop coming up in the next
11:27:46 few months, and that might be an appropriate time to
11:27:49 discuss that.
11:27:51 And I see some people from the public who probably
11:27:53 want to weigh in on this, too.
11:27:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, all I know is, you know, I just
11:28:00 became chair, and I just started asking questions,
11:28:02 because here again, when I meat, the agenda is not
11:28:07 It's -- is set.
11:28:09 It final.
11:28:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, you're the leader.
11:28:14 You are supposed to have six followers.
11:28:16 I am going to follow you all the way to the river.
11:28:18 But I am not going to walk that water, I'll tell you
11:28:20 that right now.
11:28:24 The lady is right here.
11:28:25 She can tell you.
11:28:26 Sandy Marshall can tell you all about the agenda.
11:28:29 I can only tell you in the past what I remember, no
11:28:32 item, after 2:00 on Friday, that was not approved by
11:28:37 the chair went onto the agenda.
11:28:38 I can tell you that much.
11:28:40 I can also tell you that a lot of times the person who
11:28:45 worked for the chair would set and work with the
11:28:48 administration and the clerk's office as to whose
11:28:53 committee it would fall under.
11:28:55 That I know was done.
11:28:56 Other than that, you have to understand that the
11:28:59 system is very large, and it works very cumbersome,
11:29:03 and you have to speed it up with the guidelines that
11:29:06 you are not going to miss some out.
11:29:10 So that's what I remember.
11:29:11 Now, some other people that were chair with were here,
11:29:13 I don't know what they did.
11:29:15 I can only tell you from the past.
11:29:17 I can't tell you going forward with what will happen
11:29:21 here tomorrow.
11:29:22 She's right there if you want to ask her.
11:29:24 But I am not trying to put her on the hot seat but
11:29:27 she's already sitting in the hot seat.
11:29:29 That's a very important job.
11:29:30 But that's what I recall.
11:29:32 And if the administration calls and it was a Mickey
11:29:36 Mouse item, it wait a week?
11:29:40 Okay, put to the next week.
11:29:42 And that's how it was.
11:29:43 And I am not into that.
11:29:44 You are the chairperson.
11:29:46 I'll follow you up to the river and then you better
11:29:48 have a bridge.
11:29:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
11:29:52 So then the recommended change you pretty much are
11:29:56 open for except the commendations.
11:29:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move we accepted the recommended
11:30:01 changes and move the commendation to the beginning of
11:30:04 our workshop once a month.
11:30:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
11:30:07 I want to try it out.
11:30:09 >>GWEN MILLER: And on staff reports, too.
11:30:12 Because when don't need 15 or 20 staff reports.
11:30:15 Some of those can be written reports and some can be
11:30:17 meet with your council members.
11:30:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Why don't we take that up afterwards.
11:30:23 Let's make that a separate motion, what I would
11:30:27 Before we pass the motion let's hear from the public.
11:30:31 >>> Randy baron, 217 west Comanche Avenue.
11:30:36 I just want to you know for the record I am here for a
11:30:38 10:30 agenda item and it's now 11:30.
11:30:42 Agendas are hard things.
11:30:43 They are monsters.
11:30:44 They get out of control very easily.
11:30:47 I'm looking at this from the public's point of view.
11:30:49 I'm here on occasion, and I have to park across the
11:30:52 Street and pay, and I have to wait, take time off from
11:30:56 my job, and as a neighborhood leader I also have to
11:30:58 arrange for other people to come to speak on issues
11:31:00 because the more people we have the more impact we can
11:31:04 have on City Council.
11:31:06 I think that City Council needs to take into
11:31:08 consideration that we want to encourage public
11:31:10 When want to make it easier for people to come up.
11:31:13 We don't want to zip through agenda items.
11:31:16 I don't know how to solve that question.
11:31:19 Maybe it's possible that now, with all due respect to
11:31:21 Mr. Miranda, just that the issues and the debate that
11:31:24 we are doing now on these issues, there's just not
11:31:28 enough time in a day to do that.
11:31:29 Perhaps -- I looked at the charter.
11:31:32 There's nothing in the charter that says that City
11:31:34 Council should only meet on Thursday.
11:31:35 I'm not suggesting we should have other days to meet
11:31:38 but maybe that could absolution.
11:31:41 Maybe you could have staff reports on a Tuesday,
11:31:43 because the only public comment on staff reports is
11:31:46 the three minutes prior to the staff reports.
11:31:50 So that way the public knows Tuesday at 9:00 they can
11:31:53 speak and then you can deal with your staff issues.
11:31:56 That frees up the entire Thursday for the other
11:31:59 issues, public hearings or workshops or other things.
11:32:03 I encourage more public debate.
11:32:04 I would love to have Crumbley more time to speak and
11:32:14 he worked on those issues for years and years and he
11:32:17 got up here and the bell goes off and he has to stop.
11:32:21 So it has kind of a chilling effect.
11:32:23 I have to figure out what my comments are going to be
11:32:25 and trim them to three minutes and it's hard to put
11:32:28 anything in three minutes.
11:32:29 So what I would encourage the council to rethink these
11:32:32 rules, rethink maybe scheduling additional hearing
11:32:35 days, going back to -- I'm not sure the prior schedule
11:32:41 where you had hearings every week would help but
11:32:43 something needs to happen to help encourage public
11:32:45 participation, because it should be a combination, it
11:32:47 should be a partnership between council and the
11:32:50 administration, and the public.
11:32:51 The public is the absolute necessity for the third cog
11:32:58 of that wheel.
11:32:58 Thank you.
11:32:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:33:01 >> Susan long, 921 east broad street, president of
11:33:05 the -- I can't even talk today -- Old Seminole Heights
11:33:10 neighborhood association.
11:33:11 Because of that position I am here a lot.
11:33:14 Here periodically just for me.
11:33:19 My memory and how we met was we had most of the wet
11:33:23 zonings in the evening.
11:33:24 Now wet zonings are in the middle of the day.
11:33:27 A couple of years ago -- I'm not talking last month --
11:33:32 we used to come here and sit on the marble steps for
11:33:38 forever on wet zonings.
11:33:41 You had a pretty good idea whether it was going to be
11:33:44 morning, afternoon and then evening sessions which
11:33:46 were different.
11:33:47 Now I come down here.
11:33:48 I'm scald for 10:00 in the morning.
11:33:50 I sit at home.
11:33:51 I watch my TV because there's in a point in my sitting
11:33:53 here from 10:00 until four in the afternoon.
11:33:56 Then all of a sudden you move items around on the
11:33:58 agenda and I have to come down here, and then I sit
11:34:01 here for five hours waiting for my five minutes or two
11:34:03 minutes to say something.
11:34:06 I own my own business.
11:34:07 I bill by the hour.
11:34:08 Every hour I sit here is money out of my pocket.
11:34:11 It's getting to be real expensive.
11:34:15 I have eight other board members, and I say, we need
11:34:19 somebody to show up for this and it's very difficult
11:34:21 for me to get somebody if you have a regular job and
11:34:23 you don't have a real lenient employer, you can't
11:34:26 So we send an e-mail, and we get a letter to the clerk
11:34:31 of court.
11:34:31 Sometimes it gets to you.
11:34:32 Sometimes it does not.
11:34:33 I don't rely on that because I come here and say you
11:34:37 have a letter, and you people two, I don't have it
11:34:40 here in my file.
11:34:40 I don't know whose fault it is.
11:34:42 I don't know where it gets lost in the shuffle.
11:34:44 But in order to be sure that our opinions or ideas or
11:34:46 whatever it is gets to you, somebody physically has to
11:34:49 be here.
11:34:50 I sat here last Thursday from 10:30 in the morning
11:34:54 till 4:30 in the afternoon to speak for two minutes.
11:34:58 It's crazy.
11:34:59 I don't have a quick solution but there needs to be
11:35:02 some method of knowing that the public can come and
11:35:05 speak and leave without spending all day sitting here
11:35:08 watching the clock go around until our issues come up.
11:35:14 And become worse over the years.
11:35:16 Now don't get me wrong, there are issues that used to
11:35:19 be scheduled for 6:30 or 7:00 at nature and didn't
11:35:22 come up till ten because that's the way it goes.
11:35:24 But we seem to be doing this every single time.
11:35:26 Thank you.
11:35:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
11:35:29 >>MARY MULHERN: Randy and Susan, did you see Tom's
11:35:34 Because it would be helpful, you know, if you kind of
11:35:37 told us what you think about them.
11:35:40 >> She just did.
11:35:43 >>MARY MULHERN: I think that gives you more time
11:35:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go ahead.
11:35:48 >>MARY MULHERN: I think that gives you more time
11:35:50 certain and that's what we are trying to do.
11:35:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: One of the things that all of us have
11:35:53 to understand, in our legislative process, number one,
11:35:57 is you can't just run at an hour.
11:36:00 That's not going to hoop.
11:36:01 If a concern that you want to ask questions.
11:36:04 I'm not opposed to people asking questions of council
11:36:08 members and that sort of thing.
11:36:09 I think you should get the questions answered and I
11:36:12 think you should hear from the administration.
11:36:14 That's not my issue.
11:36:16 My issue is again having a process that's efficient
11:36:18 that when know that it's going to come up and try to
11:36:22 get to that time, and when you set that for time
11:36:26 certain, take it up as much as possible, you know.
11:36:29 Also, the afternoon schedule, one of the things Ms.
11:36:36 Cole recommended we may have to move to the evenings.
11:36:41 Ms. Cole, do you want to speak to that?
11:36:43 Because as I understand it --
11:36:48 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:36:49 As you know, you will sometimes have a number of wet
11:36:53 zonings and sometimes you will have very few.
11:36:56 Your appeal hearings are the type of items that tend
11:37:00 to -- you have been getting more of those, and I
11:37:05 anticipate you will continue to get more of those.
11:37:07 One of the options -- and I believe you had actually
11:37:13 at some time in the past set your wet zonings but you
11:37:17 may want to consider limiting the number you have at
11:37:20 your 1:30.
11:37:22 That's an option, that you sort of have kind of like
11:37:25 what you do with your zonings.
11:37:27 We are going to have 12 on any given day for any given
11:37:30 item, it used to be you took certain terms.
11:37:33 That's just an option we could explore.
11:37:37 To speak to get an understanding of what's an average
11:37:41 amount and go ahead and set that as an average amount.
11:37:43 You would have to amend your rules of procedure.
11:37:45 You could have a process in which you could add
11:37:47 additional days kind of like we do with the evening
11:37:50 meetings but it's something that I thought about as a
11:37:52 potential option.
11:37:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Is it true that we used to do all the
11:37:57 wet zonings at night?
11:37:59 >>> Not since I have been with the city.
11:38:01 But I have only been with the city for three and a
11:38:03 half years.
11:38:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to say one other thing to
11:38:09 A lot of times, the staff reports, these the only
11:38:13 thing that comes from us these not handed to us on the
11:38:16 And very often, because we need public input and when
11:38:21 wanted -- you know, a lot of times it's something that
11:38:24 we pulled off the consent agenda, and because people
11:38:26 don't know about it.
11:38:27 But I think you probably wouldn't want us to move it
11:38:30 to another day.
11:38:32 It would just mean that people would have another day
11:38:34 to spend down here.
11:38:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion on the floor.
11:38:41 All in favor let it be known by Aye.
11:38:45 (Motion carried).
11:38:47 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to make a motion to limit
11:38:49 our staff reports to --
11:38:55 >> Ten?
11:38:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Ten.
11:38:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't want to stymy the form of
11:39:03 the city just because we say they are going to have
11:39:07 If there's something they need that's very important
11:39:09 to the citizens.
11:39:09 >>GWEN MILLER: No, I'm talking about the ones we make
11:39:13 a motion.
11:39:13 And we can get a written report and meet with that
11:39:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Listen, this is our responsibility
11:39:19 that when somebody has something to talk to that
11:39:21 department head.
11:39:22 I have heard all kind of rumors that they don't wanted
11:39:24 to talk to you.
11:39:25 Well, they have never done that to me.
11:39:27 >>GWEN MILLER: That's what I'm talking about.
11:39:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I see the body language and I
11:39:33 don't like it.
11:39:34 I am going to tell you that right now.
11:39:36 If we don't get an answer, we don't have one problem,
11:39:39 we have two problems.
11:39:40 So that's how I feel and I am going to be very vocal
11:39:42 about that during the remainder must have term.
11:39:46 >>GWEN MILLER: That's what I was thinking.
11:39:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I agree with that.
11:39:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The reason that I think it valuable
11:39:52 to have staff reports, I can get the information.
11:39:55 I can't talk about it with you all because of
11:39:57 If I want to have a public discussion about something
11:40:00 that's coming before us, it needs to be here at
11:40:03 council with the staff and with the citizens being
11:40:05 able to hear and comment on it.
11:40:07 And I think that to do our jobs thoroughly, there are
11:40:10 times when we need to do that.
11:40:14 I spend a tremendous amount of time on this job, but
11:40:16 the public needs to be able to hear what's going on,
11:40:19 my fellow council members need to hear what the staff
11:40:21 is saying and we need to have an opportunity to weigh
11:40:24 in on things.
11:40:26 To act passively and just accept our entire consent
11:40:29 agenda, to never bring up new issues is not being as
11:40:33 thorough a council as I know we want to be.
11:40:35 So I think the idea of limiting our own comments to
11:40:38 three minutes is a great idea.
11:40:39 And I will be willing to abide by that.
11:40:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion on the floor to limit
11:40:47 staff reports now.
11:40:51 We need clarity on that, because I think we had about
11:40:56 I don't know how many of those were from the
11:41:01 >>GWEN MILLER: All council members.
11:41:03 All council members.
11:41:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, that's going to be a
11:41:07 hard thing taking into account Mr. Miranda's concern,
11:41:10 because the administration sometimes rather than put
11:41:13 something on the consent docket, knowing that council
11:41:15 would want to discuss it, puts it under staff report,
11:41:20 to save the effort of having it be pulled and not
11:41:24 adopt transparency.
11:41:25 So I'm thinking if that's council's intention perhaps
11:41:28 I can work out a way to be able to do that and work
11:41:31 with administration.
11:41:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Not staff, council members.
11:41:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council members initiated staff
11:41:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Right.
11:41:40 We can meet with the staff.
11:41:41 We can have them send us a memo.
11:41:43 And everybody will get a copy of the memo so we know
11:41:45 what's going on.
11:41:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I would suggest that we try a
11:41:54 new agenda first.
11:41:56 Let's try it for a couple of months and then if it is
11:41:59 not efficient enough, them come back and maybe look at
11:42:02 that option.
11:42:03 I would be hesitant at this point to limit it to ten.
11:42:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The clerk does an excellent job of
11:42:14 notating how many staff reports by Monday on a
11:42:16 particular meeting day he so when a council member
11:42:18 wishes to make a motion to set a staff report, you
11:42:20 will already have in front of you how many staff
11:42:23 reports are already presently scheduled so you can as
11:42:25 a council decide to not set a staff report on that
11:42:29 particular day.
11:42:32 >>MARY MULHERN: I think if we are just more conscious
11:42:34 of it and you keep your eye on it.
11:42:36 We can try to not put too many on there without
11:42:38 actually passing some kind of limit but we may have to
11:42:42 make exceptions for.
11:42:47 >>GWEN MILLER:
11:42:51 8 nobody the made the motion on it.
11:42:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, I said workshop day?
11:42:58said workshop day.
11:43:01 >> We haven't voted.
11:43:02 >>MARY MULHERN: We had public input.
11:43:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor of the motion, signify by
11:43:08 saying Aye.
11:43:12 >>THE CLERK: And that's the motion for accommodations?
11:43:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: In a, that's on the agenda.
11:43:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Accommodations on -- the
11:43:21 commendations on workshop days.
11:43:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You are withdrawing your motion?
11:43:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:43:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If we are not going to have enough
11:43:28 people for the 1:30 discussion. Budget we can make it
11:43:30 into a special discussion meeting.
11:43:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Pardon me?
11:43:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have a 1:30 workshop on the
11:43:36 We are at a halfway point.
11:43:38 I'm suggesting, Mr. Chairman, if when don't have
11:43:43 enough people to be here to create a quorum, that we
11:43:46 just call it a special workshop on the budget, and
11:43:48 those of us who can be here at 1:30 are here.
11:43:52 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll be here.
11:43:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'll be here at 1:30 but I have to
11:43:56 leave at 2.
11:44:00 I think we have to be careful, though, isn't there an
11:44:04 usual you being raised by a city attorney about this
11:44:06 whole issue starting out in one area?
11:44:08 That was a concern from legal for that.
11:44:11 >>SAL TERRITO: We had an item on the agenda actually
11:44:14 for item number 6 wanting to know how do you convert a
11:44:17 workshop into a special discussion meeting?
11:44:19 I think the question is a notice one.
11:44:21 If you have a workshop scheduled, what you may want to
11:44:24 do -- and I'm not sure, but what you may want to do is
11:44:27 say we will have a workshop scheduled for a certain
11:44:29 time if for some reason we don't have a quorum or if
11:44:32 we lose a quorum, then it will be converted to a
11:44:35 session special discussion meeting.
11:44:36 That way it's notified.
11:44:37 We don't have a meeting coming up that someone didn't
11:44:39 know about.
11:44:41 And then maybe the motion would include both of those
11:44:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
11:44:56 Excuse me, I believe that council was able to amend
11:44:58 our rules if we have a majority vote.
11:45:00 So what my motion would be is that if we have a
11:45:03 workshop that's scheduled, and we lose our quorum,
11:45:08 that transition into a special discussion meeting,
11:45:13 because we have done the notification for a workshop,
11:45:15 which is a higher standard.
11:45:17 It's televised.
11:45:18 City clerk is here.
11:45:20 Staff is here.
11:45:20 Public is here.
11:45:21 >>SAL TERRITO: What I'm suggesting is when you have a
11:45:24 workshop that the notice for the workshop including
11:45:27 notice that if you lose your quorum it will become a
11:45:29 special discussion meeting, if that's what you want to
11:45:32 Because I'm saying, you need to notice the special
11:45:36 discussion meeting as a separate item, it could be
11:45:38 done in concurrence, but I think if you have a special
11:45:41 discussion meeting after workshop doesn't have a
11:45:44 quorum, you might have a notice problem unless you
11:45:47 notice that at the same time.
11:45:50 You need to have something on the agenda, have a
11:45:52 workshop scheduled for X time. If we don't have a
11:45:55 quorum, or if we lose our quorum, it will be a special
11:45:57 discussion meeting.
11:45:58 So the public is on notice that if you have lost your
11:46:01 quorum, you are still going to continue without the
11:46:03 authority to take any issues up, and pass any motions.
11:46:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move to direct legal and clerk to
11:46:09 write up that language and have it appear on our
11:46:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Isn't that counterproductive of when
11:46:15 say we will have a workshop?
11:46:17 That's counterproductive.
11:46:18 I just can't see that.
11:46:23 We have a strategic planning session we can move to
11:46:26 And now we are going to turn around and turn it into a
11:46:28 special discussion meeting.
11:46:30 That's counterproductive of what we agreed to do.
11:46:36 >>MARY MULHERN: I think we can all meet whenever we
11:46:39 And in this case, I worked to schedule this workshop
11:46:47 meeting because it is a once-a-year report that we get
11:46:53 from revenue and finance of where we are, six months
11:46:56 into the year, okay?
11:46:57 I just got assigned finance Chiaramonte ago, and we
11:47:06 hadn't gotten the requests from the budget department
11:47:08 until after the six-month period to set this meeting.
11:47:11 So I tried to work with council to make it when
11:47:15 everyone could show up.
11:47:16 I don't care what you call it, but it's a staff report
11:47:20 to us on the budget, that we have every year at the
11:47:24 six-month point, so it's happening today at 1:30.
11:47:28 I believe the budget department is going to be here.
11:47:33 And I'll be here.
11:47:34 And I don't care if you call at workshop or special
11:47:36 discussion meeting.
11:47:37 It's something that when need to do.
11:47:39 Both the administration and council.
11:47:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I agree.
11:47:43 All right.
11:47:45 Any other?
11:47:53 We need a motion now.
11:47:54 The only thing, that's a workshop.
11:47:57 Keep in mind you already voted to have a regular
11:48:00 meeting on that date.
11:48:01 We have one workshop scheduled and then you have the
11:48:04 rest of the day for regular meeting.
11:48:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just a suggestion that council may
11:48:12 want to consider.
11:48:13 I don't know how long this takes, whether it's worthy
11:48:15 of an extensive amount of time but now that you do
11:48:19 have a regular meeting today, perhaps you can put this
11:48:21 under staff report and take it within that period of
11:48:23 time and perhaps have some discussion if you wish.
11:48:29 Because I see the way it's presently set, you don't
11:48:31 have that many staff reports set for that date
11:48:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On the 19th?
11:48:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe so.
11:48:39 Because it was just set.
11:48:40 So looking at the June 19th, you presently only
11:48:43 have one staff report and unfinished business after
11:48:47 your workshop.
11:48:48 So if you wish to remove that, rather than call at
11:48:51 workshop, I don't know how lengthy discussion you
11:48:54 intend to have but it's something that could be taken
11:48:58 up as a staff report.
11:48:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think we should just continue it
11:49:02 as a workshop on the 19th.
11:49:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The problem still becomes that now you
11:49:08 have a regular meeting day on the 19th.
11:49:11 That's the problem you have.
11:49:15 We have one time for the comprehensive plan on that
11:49:19 day, and then the rest of it is a regular meeting
11:49:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have two major items.
11:49:28 9 a.m. the comprehensive plan that you discussed, as
11:49:31 you were told today, and at 10 a.m. the workshop to
11:49:35 discuss the proposed code amendment cycles that land
11:49:38 development is planning on bringing forth.
11:49:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Chapter 27 changes
11:49:52 Mr. Chairman, to get it off the dime I move we put
11:49:54 this down as a continuation under a workshop, but I
11:49:57 don't think it's going to be very long.
11:50:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On the 19th?
11:50:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:50:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:50:04 There's a motion.
11:50:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 9:15.
11:50:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think we just moved the motion from
11:50:13 last Thursday, that we start our meeting at 10:00.
11:50:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The workshop meeting?
11:50:19 >> No, our regular meeting.
11:50:25 We had a lot of items, request for --
11:50:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
11:50:28 Understanding that I'll withdraw my motion and suggest
11:50:30 we take this up under staff reports to the regular
11:50:33 meeting, at the regular meeting.
11:50:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you second that?
11:50:37 Okay, all in favor let it known by Aye.
11:50:43 It will be taken as a staff report.
11:50:49 Any new business?
11:50:53 No new business.
11:50:56 Receive and file?
11:50:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
11:50:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:51:00 All in favor?
11:51:02 (Motion carried).
11:51:03 Nothing else, we stand in recess until 1:30.
11:51:08 (The meeting recessed at 11:52 a.m.)
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Tampa City Council
Thursday, May 22, 2008
1:30 p.m. session
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13:45:18 [Sounding gavel]
13:46:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would like to call the Tampa City
13:46:31 Council meeting to order.
13:46:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
13:46:40 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
13:46:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
13:46:42 Just as a matter of record, I do have two memos, one
13:46:46 from Caetano that was given to me notice of absence,
13:46:50 as well as Mrs. Miller, when I came back from lunch.
13:46:53 So I do want to say, I don't know from my attorney
13:46:56 whether it be handed to the clerk.
13:46:57 >> You can hand that to the clerk.
13:46:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But these two notices that I got after
13:47:01 lunch today.
13:47:02 Now, let me just say that this is the second time I
13:47:06 had to do this, and that is that I do want to
13:47:09 apologize to the public, I apologize to the
13:47:15 I am embarrassed by the lack of participation and
13:47:21 presence of my colleagues this afternoon, given the
13:47:25 single-most important item that council deals with is
13:47:27 the budget.
13:47:29 One of the most important aspects of a city of this
13:47:33 body, the City Council, is to deal with the budget and
13:47:36 the charter, and we don't have a quorum.
13:47:39 To me it is embarrassing.
13:47:41 I'm appalled by this.
13:47:43 And going forward, there needs to be clear
13:47:46 understanding that when we have a meeting that there's
13:47:52 a quorum.
13:47:54 I apologize to the -- also the chairman of the budget
13:48:02 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to say that I went to a
13:48:05 lot of trouble, and so has Bonnie Wise, to try to
13:48:10 schedule this six-month report at a time that would be
13:48:14 convenient for everyone, and that council voted
13:48:17 unanimously to have this workshop today, and even at
13:48:23 our morning meeting, I tried to get commitments
13:48:27 whether people would be here or not.
13:48:29 So it's really unfortunate that they couldn't at least
13:48:31 tell us they weren't going to be here, because the
13:48:34 people who did show up have had -- been
13:48:37 inconvenienced, not to mention all the staff people
13:48:41 And I think that apparently there is not enough
13:48:45 interest in this to even say you are not going to come
13:48:48 and listen.
13:48:49 So apparently we'll just have to talk -- the council
13:48:55 that's interested in the budget, and in a report on
13:48:58 the finance and revenue report.
13:49:00 We can talk to Bonnie and Jim, and unfortunately you
13:49:06 will probably have to do your presentation at least
13:49:08 three times.
13:49:10 I hope at a minimum of three times because I think if
13:49:13 people haven't made any arrangement to be here today
13:49:15 for the meeting that they voted to have, then they
13:49:18 don't deserve your time.
13:49:20 And I'm sorry.
13:49:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Again, Ms. Wise, I extend my sincere
13:49:28 apologies to you and the administration for the lack
13:49:33 of participation, that we don't have a quorum, and
13:49:36 hopefully as we move forward in the future this will
13:49:39 not happen.
13:49:41 This is the second time in my eleven years of being an
13:49:43 elected official.
13:49:45 In my ten years at the county this never happened.
13:49:48 And that you didn't have a quorum, when a meeting was
13:49:52 noticed, and you didn't have a quorum.
13:49:54 Again, I'm extremely embarrassed and I apologize to
13:49:59 the public, I apologize to the administration, to the
13:50:02 staff and public that are here.
13:50:04 And to the chairman of the committee as well.
13:50:07 >>MARY MULHERN: What's our responsibility to the
13:50:10 public that we had a public hearing for a meeting that
13:50:15 now we can't hold?
13:50:21 >>SAL TERRITO: I'm not sure -- Sal Territo, legal
13:50:25 department -- how you want to do that.
13:50:29 My only advice is the procedural matter of what you
13:50:32 have to do not having a quorum and how to follow that
13:50:36 I can't get involved.
13:50:37 That's a policy matter.
13:50:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe the question -- I don't
13:50:40 know personally the answer but maybe Bonnie or Jim
13:50:42 does whether there's a legal responsibility to have
13:50:45 this discussion publicly at a noticed meeting, under
13:50:48 state law or under any of your bonding requirements or
13:50:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's not a mandated thing.
13:51:01 It's something we created.
13:51:02 But frankly, I think this speaks to the issue that Mr.
13:51:04 Territo brought up before lunch today, which is the
13:51:07 notification of whether it needs to be a workshop, or
13:51:10 could more easily into a special discussion.
13:51:13 I think this lack of a quorum indicates we need that
13:51:16 And I hope when we have our workshop on council
13:51:21 procedures, we look at that, with the consideration of
13:51:24 perhaps creating that flexibility.
13:51:26 But I'm very disappointed in my colleagues who are not
13:51:28 attending this meeting.
13:51:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
13:51:32 With that, then let me just give you this.
13:51:36 We can't even make a motion.
13:51:37 I will just hand it to you because technically from a
13:51:41 legal standpoint we can't take any action.
13:51:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have to recess, I believe.
13:51:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ms. Wise?
13:51:48 >>BONNIE WISE: I was just asking Mr. Territo, we did
13:51:51 have a document for you.
13:51:53 Of course it doesn't have the explanation that I would
13:51:54 have provided to you.
13:51:55 But we do have the hard copy that you can take with
13:51:59 At least it would have that material.
13:52:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you so very much.
13:52:04 With that, we stand in recess until 6:00 this evening.
13:52:08 Thank you.
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