TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Tuesday, June 24, 2008
9:00 a.m. Session
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09:04:38 >>GWEN MILLER: I'm going to call the budget meeting to
09:04:41 We are so happy to have one of our own Linda Saul-Sena
09:04:44 who will do our invocation.
09:04:45 We are very pleased that you stepped up.
09:04:47 Thank you.
09:04:47 Will you please stand and remain standing for the
09:04:49 pledge of allegiance?
09:04:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:04:52 Let us bow our heads.
09:04:58 On this beautiful day in T let us all be glad for the
09:05:04 day we have, a beautiful city, inspiring citizens,
09:05:07 warm sense of community, and enough money to get us
09:05:10 through this next budget year.
09:05:11 Let us be mindful how we spend it and generous in our
09:05:15 support of the things that really improve the quality
09:05:17 of the lives of our citizens.
09:05:22 (Pledge of Allegiance).
09:05:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
09:05:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:05:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:05:43 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:05:44 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:05:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:05:46 I would like to put on the record that Reverend Scott
09:05:48 will not be here.
09:05:51 Now we will turn it over to the budget chairperson,
09:05:53 Mary Mulhern.
09:05:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
09:05:56 Bonnie Wise is going to begin our workshop.
09:06:04 >>BONNIE WISE: Director of revenue and finance.
09:06:06 Today we are going to have the second budget workshop.
09:06:08 Today we are going over the departments of police,
09:06:10 fire rescue, neighborhood services, growth management
09:06:14 and development services, and City Council.
09:06:18 As you will recall at our last budget workshop on June
09:06:22 10th, various materials were handed out at that
09:06:25 I have included that in your budget book.
09:06:28 You have all of that information in one place.
09:06:31 In addition, the six-month extended revenue and
09:06:33 expenditure overview is included in there as well so
09:06:36 you can reference all of those materials.
09:06:38 What we have today for you are those departments that
09:06:41 I mentioned, and we have their handouts as well.
09:06:46 They are three-hole punched so you can insert those
09:06:49 into your books as well.
09:06:50 And with that, we would like to start with the police
09:06:53 department, and have Chief Hogue come and join me.
09:07:08 >>CHIEF HOGUE: Thank you very much, Bonnie.
09:07:09 Good morning.
09:07:10 Steve Hogue, police chief, City of Tampa.
09:07:13 We are proposing a budget this year of about $132
09:07:19 million for the police department.
09:07:21 And some of the things that we have set out as our
09:07:28 goals as you well know over the past four years the
09:07:31 Tampa Police Department has been very successful and
09:07:33 working very hard and bringing down crime, and last
09:07:39 year, in '08, we set a target of 6% and we are going
09:07:43 to do it again next year.
09:07:46 We think that is reasonable, in the climate that we
09:07:49 have and the resources that have been provided by the
09:07:52 city, the police department, that we should be able to
09:07:55 accomplish that goal.
09:07:58 Another thing that we have high number of traffic
09:08:05 This is something that we started last year looking
09:08:08 And we are going to target our 40 highest traffic
09:08:15 crash locations in the city, many of those
09:08:18 intersections but some of them are stretches of road,
09:08:20 and we are going to give extra attention from our
09:08:23 traffic unit and our zone units in putting extra
09:08:29 effort in those areas.
09:08:35 There will be education, and there will be traffic
09:08:36 enforcement in the way of citations, and high
09:08:41 visibility patrols in an effort to bring down our
09:08:44 traffic crashes in Tampa.
09:08:49 We want to continue our efforts in community policing
09:08:52 because we think those are key to the success of this
09:08:55 organization, and building those relationships between
09:08:59 the citizens and the police department.
09:09:06 Each community has its own, as you well know probably
09:09:09 better than anybody, each community has their own
09:09:13 Some communities maybe have street level drug dealers
09:09:17 standing on the street corners, and that's what that
09:09:19 neighborhood or that community sees as a problem.
09:09:23 You know, Tampa is one city, but it really made up of
09:09:26 different communities within that city.
09:09:29 And some places, it's along Nebraska Avenue, the
09:09:35 community in that area, prostitution is their main
09:09:39 And Drew Park, as you have seen lately in the
09:09:42 newspaper, it's been the adult establishments that the
09:09:47 community wanted the police department to come out and
09:09:49 deal with.
09:09:50 And in addition to that, you know, maybe Bayshore,
09:09:55 community, traffic enforcement.
09:09:57 So you can see it runs the gamut.
09:09:58 When it comes to rape, robbery and murder, everybody
09:10:01 sees those as a priority no matter where you are.
09:10:03 When you drop down that that next tier level, that's
09:10:06 where community policing really comes into its own
09:10:10 because as each community gets in target the police in
09:10:14 whatever direction, plan on continuing that effort
09:10:17 next year and actually enhancing that and those are
09:10:20 our three main goals.
09:10:21 Now, to talk a little bit about those things that we
09:10:24 are a little uncertain about, I don't think it comes
09:10:27 to any great surprise to you, you know.
09:10:30 Gas prices, obviously, at the police department, we
09:10:33 are probably the largest consumer of gas of any city
09:10:36 department in the city, and it becomes a real issue
09:10:41 with us.
09:10:42 And we are looking at many things to cut our gas
09:10:49 We are having meetings to look at police vehicles that
09:10:51 get better gas mileage, maybe moving our detectives to
09:10:54 a higher mileage vehicle that maybe isn't quite as
09:10:58 performance -- you know, performance that a police car
09:11:06 And we are even looking at some of the other police
09:11:08 package cars for our marked unit that maybe get better
09:11:12 gas mileage, because we know that gas prices are very
09:11:15 volatile, and to the police department can make a
09:11:20 million dollar swing one way or the other depending on
09:11:23 what the price of gas happens to be, as we just
09:11:27 consume a lot of it.
09:11:28 And another issue for us is some of our computers and
09:11:41 laptops that we have in our police cars.
09:11:43 There was great concern for us, they are every year,
09:11:46 as budgets get tighter, that money becomes harder to
09:11:49 find in our budget, so that's a concern for us.
09:11:52 We have expressed that with Bonnie Wise, and she's
09:11:57 looking into that at this point in time.
09:12:02 Some of the things that we are also looking at that we
09:12:05 are fully funded for, of course, is our radio system
09:12:07 that we are going to bring on next year, but that is
09:12:11 funded here this year.
09:12:12 Also our helicopter which you all approved here
09:12:16 We are looking at reducing, because of the expense and
09:12:20 operating the hell helicopter fleet, we have reduced
09:12:23 the hours of that fleet to save money.
09:12:26 And we are also converting -- we are going to try to
09:12:30 convert two of our big helicopters into smaller
09:12:34 helicopters and get getter gas mile annal essentially.
09:12:37 I don't think helicopters are rated in gas mileage.
09:12:40 But gas consumption is less with these smaller
09:12:43 helicopters but they can still function and do most of
09:12:45 the functions that we want.
09:12:47 We'll keep one heavy lift helicopter to lift the
09:12:51 bucket for the fire department or anybody else who
09:12:54 might need it and also to move a squad of officers
09:13:00 around the city if we need to, and we need a heavy
09:13:05 lift helicopter for that and we'll maintain at least
09:13:07 one of those.
09:13:08 We are also looking at getting our own police firing
09:13:13 We have some money put aside for that, and the sheriff
09:13:18 has been very eager and very accommodating in letting
09:13:24 us build something out of his range in the south end
09:13:28 of the county so that the police department would have
09:13:31 a place of its own to shoot their guns, which is, you
09:13:35 know, training that we need every year, and it's
09:13:38 always been difficult to schedule that in at the
09:13:43 sheriffs range when he has his own training going on
09:13:47 out there.
09:13:48 So thinking about building up a little section to give
09:13:51 us a long-term lease, and so we have had some
09:13:54 preliminary discussions.
09:13:56 We haven't worked out the details of that.
09:13:59 And that's the main issues with the Tampa Police
09:14:01 Department budget.
09:14:05 We would entertain any questions that you might have
09:14:06 at this point.
09:14:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Chief Hogue, thank you for sharing
09:14:15 such excellent news in terms of what you have
09:14:17 accomplished this past year in terms of crime
09:14:19 It's really heartening news.
09:14:21 Do you have an in-house grant writer?
09:14:24 Because I know that that's going to be -- continue to
09:14:27 be an important source of funding for maybe not your
09:14:31 core functions but some of the additional things.
09:14:33 Do you do that in-house or do you contract out?
09:14:35 How do you handle grant writing?
09:14:38 >>CHIEF HOGUE: Normally we have all our grant writing
09:14:42 We don't have a one person who writes grants, we have
09:14:45 several people, in different areas of the department,
09:14:48 learn about a grant that would affect their area.
09:14:51 Again, we have one individual who basically
09:14:54 coordinates all our grants, captain GRIS, who does all
09:14:59 of the review of the grants, also probably helps write
09:15:03 some of those grants.
09:15:04 So he is our key person.
09:15:06 But we don't have per se an individual who sits around
09:15:09 writing grants all day long.
09:15:11 We have, of course, numerous grants of the police
09:15:14 >> I know you have been very successful in
09:15:16 particularly your juvenile justice grant and some of
09:15:20 those allow to you do programs that I think really
09:15:22 enhance your program, and do you feel like you have
09:15:25 enough resources in-house to do the job you need to do
09:15:28 in terms of getting those additional federal moneys?
09:15:31 >>> Yes, ma'am, absolutely.
09:15:33 I think we do.
09:15:34 And we have millions and millions of dollars in grants
09:15:36 come in every year to the city.
09:15:37 >> I know.
09:15:38 It's really an important thing.
09:15:39 >>MARY MULHERN: Councilman Miranda.
09:15:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
09:15:44 Chief, you touched on a couple of highly sensitive
09:15:47 issues on money and cost.
09:15:49 One is gas.
09:15:49 Every time the gasoline goes up one cent, what is the
09:15:53 cost, do you know, to your department?
09:15:56 I read something in the paper, that seemed kind of
09:15:59 really a high dollar amount to all the city taxpayers.
09:16:03 >>> I heard 14,000, I think I heard 26.
09:16:10 >> Yes.
09:16:12 I'm sure Bonnie or Jim Stefan can give that you.
09:16:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's one in two.
09:16:17 As you well know years back we standardized the
09:16:20 automobile purchasing, sort of made easier to control
09:16:23 the inventories and quicker to get the cars back onto
09:16:25 the road when they needed maintenance.
09:16:28 However, that's the good side.
09:16:30 Bad side is, the bad guys can spot a police car, I
09:16:34 don't care how well hidden it is, because they are all
09:16:38 And when you see that type of make and model coming
09:16:40 they do whatever they do to stop their crime
09:16:43 So I'm glad to hear that different cars are coming in
09:16:46 for different uses.
09:16:50 The hybrid that I guess you are talking about, without
09:16:53 mentioning the car, is a great thing.
09:16:55 Have you done an analytical study even if the price of
09:17:00 gas goes up to $6?
09:17:05 We're not -- listen, this country's economic position
09:17:09 is being conquered not by the people who have the oil,
09:17:15 and they are controlling us by the oil.
09:17:18 We don't have to go fight no war.
09:17:20 She just don't send you the oil and you are doomed.
09:17:23 And that's what's happening little by little.
09:17:24 It's just a standardization of loss and the living
09:17:28 standard that we have.
09:17:30 So no matter if everybody in the world had a hybrid,
09:17:34 your gas costs would be $10 a gallon because they are
09:17:38 going to do it that way.
09:17:39 They are going to make their money one way or the
09:17:41 other so we have to go somewhere else and I'm glad the
09:17:45 And this has nothing to do with police, almost all.
09:17:47 I think those things are necessary, and I'm glad you
09:17:50 are in the right track to accomplish those things.
09:17:52 >> Thank you, sir.
09:17:54 >> Councilman KATERNO.
09:17:57 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Chief in, your budget you have 47
09:18:00 positions you are going to cut.
09:18:01 What type of positions are they?
09:18:04 >>CHIEF HOGUE: We have cut those positions pretty much
09:18:09 We have about five or six left.
09:18:14 I would hesitate to fill positions.
09:18:17 Those people have not been notified because the HR
09:18:19 department is figuring out the rollback and who has
09:18:22 seniority and who actually drops off the bottom.
09:18:24 So we haven't actually noticed those people.
09:18:26 But I don't think it was 47.
09:18:28 That was last year.
09:18:32 Let's see here.
09:18:39 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: You have 13, 24, and projected
09:18:44 13, 71.
09:18:49 >>CHIEF HOGUE: In '07?
09:18:50 >> '07 had 1371.
09:19:06 >> Authorized positions. '07 is 1369 on this budget
09:19:06 document. And we're projected for '08, 1324.
09:19:17 I'm not sure exactly where those figures come from.
09:19:20 It's the first time I have seen this document.
09:19:22 But I have submitted a reduction of about 16 positions
09:19:28 for this year.
09:19:30 So most of those were empty.
09:19:32 Some of them are currently open -- or filled with
09:19:35 And we haven't noticed those folks yet.
09:19:38 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Okay.
09:19:39 You mentioned your worse crash sites.
09:19:43 Is Bruce B. Downs approaching 75 on that list?
09:19:47 >>> Bruce B. Downs has a couple of intersections that
09:19:50 are in the top ten.
09:19:54 >> Approaching before the fly-over every day there's
09:19:59 accident there, sometimes three and four cars.
09:20:01 >>> That is one of those on the list, yes, sir.
09:20:03 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Okay, thank you.
09:20:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Councilman Dingfelder.
09:20:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Caetano picked up on my
09:20:10 question, Bonnie or Jim, maybe you guys can help.
09:20:23 >>BONNIE WISE: That was comparing '07 to '08 instead
09:20:27 of the positions the chief is talking about now going
09:20:29 from '08 to what he's proposing in '09, those
09:20:33 positions that the people haven't been noticed yet.
09:20:35 It not 47, however.
09:20:37 That was last year.
09:20:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So what's the authorized positions
09:20:41 for '09?
09:20:46 >>> 1318.
09:20:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
09:20:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I was interested in the crash site.
09:20:56 Is that a goal, or is that a project you're working
09:21:00 >>CHIEF HOGUE: It's one of our goals.
09:21:02 We set three goals every year for the police
09:21:05 And we are looking to get a 5% reduction in crash
09:21:10 rates through enforcement and education, and last year
09:21:14 we had picked 20 top intersections and we met our
09:21:18 So this year we expanded that to the 40 top
09:21:22 intersections in the city.
09:21:23 >> I think that's great.
09:21:24 And I think that you need help from our transportation
09:21:28 department and from the state, from the Department of
09:21:38 One of the lesser distinctions we have in Tampa being
09:21:41 not pedestrian friendly.
09:21:42 And I think in the transportation area, I hope that we
09:21:48 can work with you with our transportation department
09:21:53 and the MPO and the FDOT, because really they are the
09:21:55 ones that are kind of setting up the conditions where
09:21:59 those things are likely to happen, and you are doing a
09:22:01 great job of it.
09:22:02 But I would love to see that be a project that gets
09:22:05 worked on with other departments.
09:22:08 I know that we find when we are talking about streets
09:22:12 being safe and walkable and pedestrian friendly, but
09:22:17 also just producing speed limits and all that is all
09:22:21 dependent on what we hear from our transportation
09:22:22 people, what we can do about it.
09:22:25 So I think that would be a great thing if you could
09:22:29 work with them, and also with fire rescue.
09:22:32 That's the other part of it.
09:22:34 But they are going to end up dealing with the human
09:22:39 costs, the safety problems.
09:22:40 >>> You make an excellent point, because even though
09:22:45 pedestrian accidents are low on the list for
09:22:49 frequency, they are very high on the list for
09:22:52 fatalities and serious injuries, obviously, when
09:22:55 somebody gets hit with a car, they don't have another
09:22:57 car around to protect them, then the injuries are
09:23:02 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to work with you on that,
09:23:04 because I think we run into the problem when people
09:23:08 look at planning for roads, and for intersections,
09:23:13 especially at the state level, they are just
09:23:15 interested in moving traffic as fast as they can and
09:23:18 they don't look at those things.
09:23:20 So we could really use your help on that.
09:23:25 Thanks a lot.
09:23:26 >>> Yes, ma'am.
09:23:30 >>BONNIE WISE: If I can just clarify something
09:23:31 regarding the number of positions.
09:23:32 It is possible that the chief could ultimately end up
09:23:34 with a position countless than that 1318, because the
09:23:38 chief is going through and looking at any efficiencies
09:23:40 that he may have.
09:23:42 We just didn't want you to think this is a final
09:23:44 number at this time.
09:23:46 He's still reviewing that information.
09:23:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It has nothing to do with TPD.
09:23:55 When we are done with TPD.
09:23:56 I just wanted to recognize, you asked us to bring our
09:24:00 citizen budget person, and mine is here, and Joe
09:24:06 Wright is in the back of the room in the striped
09:24:08 But, anyway, I'm pleased he's able to join us and
09:24:13 start this process.
09:24:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, chief.
09:24:17 >>CHIEF HOGUE: Thank you, council.
09:24:21 >>BONNIE WISE: Next we are going to have Tampa Fire
09:24:23 Rescue, and Chief Jones is here with us.
09:24:26 Once again, any questions that you may have relating
09:24:29 to the information, information that can be answered
09:24:33 today, and of course I'll be available as well
09:24:37 afterwards to answer any questions.?
09:24:38 >>CHIEF JONES: Thank you.
09:24:42 Good morning, members of council.
09:24:43 Dennis Jones, Tampa Fire Rescue fire chief, also have
09:24:46 assistant chief Tom Fogarty and Scott he willers,
09:24:53 operations chief who worked with me in preparing the
09:24:55 We have submitted a budget for 647 positions, the same
09:25:00 as last year, with a modest 1.5% increase.
09:25:05 Some of the initiatives that we hope to accomplish in
09:25:08 fiscal year '09 include completing the conversion of
09:25:11 all of our BLS, basic life support engines, to
09:25:15 advanced life support.
09:25:17 We have two remaining engines and those are funded in
09:25:21 this budget.
09:25:21 Every engine in the City of Tampa will have paramedics
09:25:24 on board and will deliver par a immediate being care
09:25:27 to all of our citizens from the engine and just await
09:25:30 transport from an ALS transport unit.
09:25:33 One of our other initiatives at Tampa fire, because I
09:25:36 am the emergency manager for the city, and the
09:25:40 emergency management department falls within my
09:25:42 purview, we are continuing to develop the emergency
09:25:45 preparedness program.
09:25:46 Our focus this year specifically in addition to
09:25:50 hurricanes is continuity of operations, and that is
09:25:53 what allows government to continue.
09:25:55 If we are unable to have the municipal office building
09:26:01 next door, even police headquarters, how would the
09:26:03 city continue to function?
09:26:05 And actively going through the details of what
09:26:09 locations would we move to, how would we operate, in
09:26:13 order of succession if I am unavailable, who steps up
09:26:17 to take my place, and that's being done for every
09:26:19 position throughout the city.
09:26:20 We are actively working on that now.
09:26:22 And another big one for us is February 1st of this
09:26:26 fiscal year will be the Super Bowl, and just a one
09:26:29 hour football game, the event really goes on for
09:26:33 They will begin, you know, in the first week of
09:26:36 January converting Raymond James stadium into a huge
09:26:40 entertainment venue, and it's not just the game that
09:26:44 we are concerned about, but public safety surrounding
09:26:46 that, both law enforcement, EMS, Haz-Mat, fire, and
09:26:51 the emergency management component that goes along
09:26:54 with that.
09:26:54 So we have a lot of planning to do as we prepare for
09:26:57 the big game.
09:26:58 And our finally initiative for this year that I will
09:27:02 mention is accreditation.
09:27:05 We have been working on accreditation being recognized
09:27:07 as a nationally accredited department for some time,
09:27:09 and we believe that will come to fruition during this
09:27:12 fiscal year.
09:27:13 We have done almost all of the preliminary work, and
09:27:17 now it's just to the point of being reviewed and
09:27:19 having the assessors come in and evaluate us, and
09:27:23 running back nice we are indeed ready to be recognized
09:27:26 as an accredited department.
09:27:27 Some of the issues that we face for fiscal year '09,
09:27:32 of course one of the first ones that come up and it's
09:27:36 addressed in our detail report is how we will deliver
09:27:40 training to our qualified personnel.
09:27:42 We have about 300 paramedics on the job, and it
09:27:46 requires ongoing training to keep that certification
09:27:48 up every two years.
09:27:50 They have to be recertified to the State of Florida.
09:27:52 And that requires certified training by our medical
09:27:56 director out of a certain facility.
09:27:58 We do have a state recognized certified fire training
09:28:01 facility on 34th street south of Adamo, and
09:28:05 because of the budget changes with state property tax,
09:28:09 that has affected the schools as well.
09:28:12 It's affected Hillsborough County community college
09:28:13 and it's affected the Hillsborough County school
09:28:16 For about 20 years, we have been receiving our
09:28:18 training through the adult portion of the Hillsborough
09:28:22 County school district.
09:28:23 The funding mechanism changed as of this year.
09:28:27 And as of June 30th, we are no longer funded the
09:28:30 way we were in the past.
09:28:31 So we have had to address that issue, how we would
09:28:35 deliver the required necessary training to keep all of
09:28:38 our firefighters current in both their fire and EMS
09:28:42 inspections and all of the on the certifications that
09:28:45 they are required to possess.
09:28:47 Our next item is real estate.
09:28:49 We are working very closely with the real estate
09:28:51 division in securing property.
09:28:53 As you are all aware, the CIT money has been allocated
09:28:57 over this current five-year period to build fire
09:29:01 stations, four fire stations.
09:29:03 Our biggest problem to this date has been to secure
09:29:07 Property is very expensive, and location in a city
09:29:11 that's being built out so quickly.
09:29:13 It's hard to find a nice two-acre spot in just the
09:29:16 place that we need it.
09:29:18 And so we are working diligently in securing property
09:29:22 for station 19 in Port Tampa, stations 22 and 23 both
09:29:26 in New Tampa, and relocating station 11 which is our
09:29:30 Sulphur Springs fire station.
09:29:32 And then the final issue on concerns for the upcoming
09:29:35 year, these are not funded, but I want to make the
09:29:38 budget department and the finance director aware, the
09:29:43 national fire protection association changes or
09:29:46 updates their standards from year to year every few
09:29:50 years, and the standards for the air packs that we
09:29:55 wear on our back, as well as the protective gear, the
09:29:59 structural firefighting gear we call bunkers, have
09:30:03 So we are going to be required in the very near future
09:30:06 to buy all new air packs and to buy all new structural
09:30:10 gear for our firefighters.
09:30:11 And that's going to be a significant number.
09:30:14 And we are in the process now of evaluating the
09:30:16 standards and evaluating the manufacturers that
09:30:19 provide those in working with purchasing to make sure
09:30:22 that we have the best product for our firefighters at
09:30:24 the best cost to the city.
09:30:27 This is a budget that has focused on the basic
09:30:31 necessities of the department.
09:30:34 As Chief Hogue mentioned we use a lot of fuel,
09:30:37 gasoline and diesel.
09:30:38 And our trucks are very large because they have to
09:30:41 carry a lot of equipment, and they are built for the
09:30:43 safety of the firefighters while they are responding.
09:30:48 But queer looking at over half of our vehicles that
09:30:51 are not fire trucks, or ladder trucks or rescue
09:30:55 vehicles along with the police department and other
09:30:57 departments within the city looking at downsizing and
09:30:59 finding the most efficient vehicles possible for the
09:31:02 non-emergency response vehicles.
09:31:04 And where the staff cars and other cars can be
09:31:07 downsized and find more fuel efficiencies, hybrids or
09:31:11 whatever the case may be, we are actively pursuing
09:31:14 that to try to be as efficient as possible.
09:31:17 Electricity, of course, is a major concern, and
09:31:19 medical supplies.
09:31:21 As everything goes up in price so do our medical
09:31:25 supplies and 80% of our calls, over 50,000 calls a
09:31:28 year, are medical in nature.
09:31:32 As those costs increase, the cost to the city -- or
09:31:36 the fire department goes up.
09:31:37 So we have to recognize that.
09:31:40 And then there's some other contractual issues.
09:31:42 But that's the basic focus of our budget.
09:31:46 We are focused on delivering the training and those
09:31:49 necessary costs to operate the department.
09:31:51 We are proud of the tradition that we have of
09:31:53 delivering excellent service, and believe that this
09:31:56 budget will allow us to continue that.
09:31:59 And I stand ready to answer any questions you may
09:32:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Councilman Dingfelder.
09:32:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
09:32:07 Chief, I am impressed in regard to operating expenses,
09:32:15 showing the '09, looks like 4.3 million operating
09:32:21 budget which takes you back below '06 levels,
09:32:25 somewhere between '05 and '06 levels which in '05 was
09:32:30 3.9 million and '06 was 4.6 million.
09:32:33 So going to 4.3 million will take you back a couple
09:32:37 How are you achieving that, especially in light of
09:32:41 these additional expenses that you have just
09:32:46 Especially gasoline and medical supplies?
09:32:52 >>> I would say that we have additional requests that
09:32:55 are not currently captured in that number that would
09:32:58 cause it to be slightly higher than last year's
09:33:04 The cost of fuel is what the cost of fuel is, medical
09:33:08 And so I'm not optimistic that we'll be able to obtain
09:33:13 the 43-eleven and we'll be looking for some help.
09:33:20 We looked through our entire department at
09:33:22 efficiencies, and we are continuing to look at that.
09:33:25 But some of the costs -- this is primarily driven by
09:33:28 fuel costs and medical supplies, and we just can't
09:33:31 control that.
09:33:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
09:33:36 Wise ways I'm sorry, if I can add to. That what the
09:33:38 chief is referring to is those items that are in the
09:33:42 threshold in your book so he actually has several
09:33:45 pages of some operating increases, personnel
09:33:48 increases, and this is probably one area where you
09:33:50 will not see a reduction in personnel or operating
09:33:54 ultimately than the budget is determined.
09:33:57 But that detail is in there.
09:34:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So the threshold budget page that
09:34:04 we are looking at that ended may 1st comes from
09:34:08 where, then, Bonnie, comes from your office to them?
09:34:12 >>BONNIE WISE: It is.
09:34:12 And that's what the departments start with.
09:34:14 And from that, they add or subtract things that the
09:34:17 department has been recommending or at that time when
09:34:20 they submitted it.
09:34:25 >>> And you have the detail report of the additional
09:34:28 23 items.
09:34:30 That is only about a 2% increase over our entire
09:34:33 budget, about a 2% increase above what you see here.
09:34:37 I think in total, we are at about 3.5% for total
09:34:41 operating, and that considers all the fuel and medical
09:34:44 supplies and everything.
09:34:47 >> And the $51 million -- excuse me, yes, $51 million
09:34:54 on the personnel side, we all recognize personnel is
09:34:57 the biggest part of virtually every budget in the
09:35:02 Is that based upon the -- I know the administration
09:35:09 and the union are at an impasse.
09:35:11 Is that based upon the administration's offer?
09:35:15 Or is it based upon the union's demand?
09:35:18 Or is it somewhere in between?
09:35:20 Go ahead.
09:35:20 >>> It's actually our system, just the existing
09:35:25 And it puts in a number.
09:35:26 But it's neither what we proposed or the union.
09:35:33 And the chief has put in there for extra people.
09:35:39 Increase that personnel number.
09:35:41 Of course, now that there's a discussion of adding
09:35:45 seven firefighters.
09:35:46 So that is one of the items that the chief has
09:35:48 included in there.
09:35:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So at the end of the day, with the
09:35:54 added additional firefighters which we recognize with
09:35:59 the additional station, and then the additional
09:36:03 operating expenses, how many million extra do you
09:36:07 anticipate that to be?
09:36:09 >>> The total is just over 1 million.
09:36:12 And that includes all the additional requests.
09:36:15 Everything that we have asked for.
09:36:19 And some of those items are discretional.
09:36:23 But some of them we feel are not, like the fuel and
09:36:26 automatic inventory.
09:36:28 But it's going to be around $1 million.
09:36:30 We also are looking at a grant, and we were just
09:36:35 discussing that this morning, the final details of
09:36:37 But looking at a grant to fund a big piece of that,
09:36:41 which would go out for four or five years and help
09:36:45 fund some of the positions that we are asking for.
09:36:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't mean to sound critical and
09:36:49 I hope I don't, because I think we all sympathize and
09:36:53 in some ways empathize with you and Chief Hogue.
09:36:57 It's an extremely tough time to be managing, you know,
09:37:01 departments and government especially in public
09:37:02 safety, because obviously you don't want to give an
09:37:04 inch when it comes to public safety.
09:37:07 At the same time you have to tighten your belts
09:37:10 because you have to tighten your belts.
09:37:11 So we are sorry.
09:37:13 We apologize for the predicament that you are in and
09:37:17 the chief and others.?
09:37:18 >>CHIEF JONES: Thank you.
09:37:22 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Good morning, chief.
09:37:23 How was your vacation?
09:37:25 >>> Outstanding.
09:37:26 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Are we still on target with that
09:37:29 piece of property on Cross Creek?
09:37:30 >>> Yes, sir.
09:37:31 As I understand, an offer has been made, and they are
09:37:37 just looking to finalize it.
09:37:38 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The bariatric unit that we have,
09:37:42 21, I think we need a better agreement with the
09:37:45 county, because I think this mutual aid agreement is
09:37:49 being abused, and it's depriving the residents or
09:37:53 wherever that vehicle has to go within the city for
09:37:57 city business, because I understand sometimes it's
09:38:01 five or six hours on one run.
09:38:04 And if we are in need of it, we are not going to have
09:38:08 >>> We did review the data.
09:38:16 There's a small percentage of the time when it goes
09:38:18 outside the city on calls.
09:38:21 The call volume has not increased drastically.
09:38:24 But I hear your concerns and I'll be happy to pass
09:38:30 We have some detail data I would like to go over with
09:38:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you, chief.
09:38:38 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to mention one thing,
09:38:42 and thanks to Councilwoman Saul-Sena who brings this
09:38:45 up all the time is department heads, and whether they
09:38:47 have grant writers.
09:38:51 And because of the straits we are in with the budget,
09:38:55 now, Florida municipalities especially, because of the
09:38:59 new tax laws, I think one thing that really strikes
09:39:03 me, and I see a lot of opportunity, and you are
09:39:08 probably already doing this, and I think Chief Hogue
09:39:12 also, is the dollars that are available from the
09:39:15 federal government, for homeland security thing, and I
09:39:19 just want to make sure that we are availing ourselves
09:39:23 of every opportunity we can, and it's really only the,
09:39:27 you know, police and fire rescue that have that
09:39:31 But I see your deputy nodding his head that you are
09:39:39 doing that.
09:39:39 But just a little kind of reminder.
09:39:41 And also wondering if you have the staff to be able to
09:39:46 do that, or do you have people assigned to be able to
09:39:50 look for those dollars?
09:39:51 I think a lot of times we are so busy cutting people
09:39:55 and trying to reduce what we are spending right now,
09:39:59 that we should be spending on the things that get us
09:40:03 money in the long run.
09:40:03 >>> If I could, the staff is my staff, my fire marshal
09:40:07 is our grants coordinator, my assistant chief of
09:40:10 operations sits on the urban area security initiative
09:40:14 working group, and he along with the counterpart at
09:40:17 the police department determine how that money is
09:40:19 This area has received a very good share of federal
09:40:25 They recognize the security concerns of the Tampa Bay
09:40:28 area, and they are receiving a very good -- a good
09:40:32 share of the federal money.
09:40:33 The staffing we have dedicated to it are diligent in
09:40:37 what they are pursuing and we are always going after
09:40:39 whatever grant dollars we can find.
09:40:41 And I would say we are getting at least a fair share
09:40:44 of what's available.
09:40:45 And we continue pursuing that.
09:40:47 >> Okay.
09:40:50 And this might be a question for Chief Hogue,
09:40:52 because -- you might be able to answer it.
09:40:55 You mentioned how your training is suffering because
09:40:58 of the -- is this Hillsborough County school district
09:41:03 programming that's been cut?
09:41:05 >>> What happened was, two things occurred.
09:41:07 We had a contract with Hillsborough County community
09:41:10 They delivered basic firefighter training at our
09:41:13 facility for pay.
09:41:14 They have since built their own facility, and now they
09:41:17 are doing all their training there so we are not
09:41:19 receiving that income.
09:41:20 The second is that the school district used to fund
09:41:24 our training.
09:41:25 They would pay for our instructors in exchange for the
09:41:28 money they would get back from the state for FTEs
09:41:32 that they would generate.
09:41:34 State changed their funding mechanism such that they
09:41:37 no longer receive those dollars back from the state.
09:41:39 So they couldn't continue to underwrite our program at
09:41:42 a cost of 150, $200,000.
09:41:46 So the police department is over a quarter of a
09:41:48 And so we are challenged now with continuing to
09:41:52 deliver that training.
09:41:54 Over that 20-year period that we have, the agreement
09:41:57 with leery, we previously had staff, dedicated staff
09:42:02 doing training, that in an effort to be efficient, we
09:42:05 put that burden on the school district, let them fund
09:42:07 it and put those people back into the street
09:42:09 delivering services to the citizens.
09:42:11 We now no long Vera training staff.
09:42:14 So that's the challenge that we are facing.
09:42:16 We still have to deliver all the training, but we
09:42:19 don't have that funding mechanism.
09:42:21 And so we are coming back to the city as one of the
09:42:23 unfunded requests.
09:42:24 We are back to the city saying we are going to need
09:42:25 some help to deliver this basic training.
09:42:38 >>BONNIE WISE: Next we have neighborhood services and
09:42:39 the administrator Santiago Corrada is going to give
09:42:42 that introduction.
09:42:48 >>> Good morning.
09:42:49 Santiago Corrada, neighborhood services administrator.
09:42:52 And before I present our department and division
09:42:55 budgets, I really need to thank all of the department
09:42:59 and division managers for always submitting their
09:43:01 budgets on time, collaborating with me on cost
09:43:04 effective budgets that really minimize the impact to
09:43:07 the public, and effectively deliver services, and I
09:43:10 think councilman Dingfelder mentioned how difficult it
09:43:14 is to be a department head, and really it's a true
09:43:18 testament to leadership when you can deal with
09:43:20 adversity and still provide budget that is serve the
09:43:22 public in the right way and in the manner they are
09:43:25 accustomed to.
09:43:26 Under the neighborhood services administrator's budget
09:43:29 are a number of departments and divisions that are
09:43:33 I'll speak to those first.
09:43:34 The art program, division community affairs, division,
09:43:38 clean city division, and neighborhood community
09:43:40 relations department are all lumped under the
09:43:42 neighborhood services administrator's budget.
09:43:44 I'll speak to the art programs division budget.
09:43:49 They are currently at $173,754 for the 2009 threshold,
09:43:55 not losing any personnel.
09:43:56 They are extremely effective at maximizing the
09:44:00 resources they have as far as collaborating with
09:44:03 outside agencies, seeking out grant opportunities.
09:44:07 They are, as you know, very, very involved in Lights
09:44:10 on Tampa 2009, which is timely with the Super Bowl
09:44:14 coming in that year.
09:44:15 Also, they are an integrate part of the development.
09:44:19 Tampa riverwalk, the cultural plane for the riverwalk
09:44:23 which includes interactive artistic portals, and of
09:44:26 course the issues that they face are again reaching
09:44:30 out to the private sector and increasing their support
09:44:33 and their partnership in developing more and more
09:44:36 grant opportunities.
09:44:37 As you know, we have one of the most honored public
09:44:43 art programs in the country, with the great leadership
09:44:47 of Robin Nigh there.
09:44:48 The next budget I would like to speak to is our clean
09:44:53 city division budget.
09:44:54 They are currently at a threshold of 4,784,000 and
09:44:59 some change, still with the same number of positions
09:45:02 They are proactively hitting different parts of our
09:45:06 They have five districts that they have teamed out --
09:45:09 teams out consistently monitoring medians,
09:45:11 landscaping, removal of graffiti.
09:45:14 They are great at leveraging partnerships.
09:45:16 They have made a tremendous impact in East Tampa, the
09:45:19 East Tampa partnership has supported their et cetera.
09:45:22 They launch a great clean city day campaign two years
09:45:26 ago that has continuously grown.
09:45:28 They are involved with the trash receptacle program
09:45:32 And establishing an adopt a street, adopt a median
09:45:36 Again they are faced with some of the similar issues
09:45:38 that you heard from police and fire, increased fuel
09:45:41 costs, and again dealing with contractual funding to
09:45:46 maintain all of the medians that long to FDOT and all
09:45:50 those properties that belong to the state that we are
09:45:53 responsible for maintaining through agreements with
09:45:58 those entities.
09:45:59 Our community affairs threshold budget is 1,126,000.
09:46:04 As you know, we refined the focus of community affairs
09:46:10 to focus on dealing with the EEOC and HUD
09:46:13 discrimination complaints and they are on target to
09:46:15 meet or exceed those complaints.
09:46:18 They are also very, very involved with the mayor's
09:46:20 alliance for persons with disabilities, having under
09:46:23 that umbrella the disability rights coordinator, and
09:46:29 as well working with the human rights council on
09:46:32 developing and maintaining our human rights ordinance,
09:46:35 and their issues will be increased workload when the
09:46:40 economy is difficult as it is and folks are dealing
09:46:44 with the issues that they are dealing with in their
09:46:46 personal lives, tend to see an increase in those
09:46:49 complaints and those issues.
09:46:50 And then finally under the neighborhood services
09:46:53 umbrella, we have the neighborhood and community
09:46:55 relations department.
09:46:57 Their budget is a little over 300,000.
09:46:59 And they have really done a terrific job at leveraging
09:47:03 their resources to partner with other city departments
09:47:06 to have events and activity in the community that
09:47:08 really improve the quality of life, with our police
09:47:12 department, and hosting party in the parks, they have
09:47:16 hosted "get to know your fire station" with Tampa Fire
09:47:20 They have been involved with Parks and Recreation
09:47:21 Department, and the United Way and affecting
09:47:27 communities that need our support, and they have a
09:47:29 specific focus on Sulphur Springs, and again they are
09:47:31 also dealing with doing more with less in reaching out
09:47:34 and really maximizing their resources to really impact
09:47:38 the community in a positive way.
09:47:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Madam Chair, if I could.
09:47:44 We all know that you do a great job and your people do
09:47:47 a great job with limited resources.
09:47:49 >>> Okay.
09:47:50 >> But this is a budget workshop, and I know you are
09:47:52 talking fast because Bonnie probably told you you have
09:47:55 five minutes to do five departments.
09:47:56 >>> A lot of different agencies to speak about.
09:47:59 >> But the whole point of this, I mean, many of us
09:48:04 have been here for many years so we know what the
09:48:06 departments do and we know they do a great job like I
09:48:08 say with limited resources.
09:48:10 But I think the most critical part of this is for us
09:48:13 and the community to have an understanding of what
09:48:15 these, you know, your departments I think everybody
09:48:19 taking the biggest cuts of anybody.
09:48:21 How much cuts are they taking?
09:48:24 How are they doing it?
09:48:26 Are they losing people?
09:48:28 I mean, these are things that need to be fleshed out
09:48:34 and deal with.
09:48:35 >>> And I can answer that very, very quickly.
09:48:38 Under the arts programs division, we are not losing
09:48:40 any personnel from this last fiscal year.
09:48:42 We are still maintaining the two.
09:48:44 We had lost two the prior year when we lost two
09:48:48 employees in that division.
09:48:49 So we are holding steady.
09:48:51 We had two last year.
09:48:52 We are continuing to have two next year.
09:48:55 And again, we have all looked at cost savings
09:48:59 We have tremendous reduction in travel budget, in
09:49:04 supply budgets and most of the small divisions, small
09:49:08 So that's where you see some of the operational cost
09:49:11 But in our programs we are not losing any employees
09:49:13 from last year to this year.
09:49:14 In clean city, we are not losing any employees from
09:49:16 last year to this year.
09:49:18 Clean city didn't lose any employees the prior year.
09:49:22 They had some reductions in their contractual funding
09:49:26 for the maintenance of contracted medians and
09:49:32 They have taken those up internally with personnel,
09:49:35 reduced the mowing cycles.
09:49:37 Am I on the right track?
09:49:40 >> Yes.
09:49:40 Also I would like a bottom line because for some
09:49:42 reason the narrative on the second page of our books
09:49:45 for each of these departments says "to be completed by
09:49:48 the budget officer."
09:49:50 We don't have one last year's budgets were to compare
09:49:53 to this year's budgets.
09:49:54 So, yes, you are doing better.
09:49:56 But if there's a bottom line for this year's budget
09:50:00 compared to last year's budget in each of those
09:50:02 groups, that would be helpful.
09:50:03 >>> Okay.
09:50:04 Well, the arts program, beginning budget in FY 08 was
09:50:07 173,399 according to our summary sheet.
09:50:11 This threshold budget for FY 09 is 173,754.
09:50:17 Our divisions are still looking at reducing costs to
09:50:20 come in under the thresholds.
09:50:22 So those are not all indicated on these forms.
09:50:25 But lots of times you see an increase, just the
09:50:29 increase in personnel expenses from one year to the
09:50:32 So you are seeing actually a very modest gain in that
09:50:35 threshold in art programs, clean city, in FY 08 the
09:50:40 beginning budget was 4,905,000 and change. This year
09:50:43 the threshold budget is 4,784,000.
09:50:46 So you see a modest reduction there.
09:50:48 And that's due again to the reduction in some of the
09:50:51 mowing cycles, the contractual agreements that we
09:50:54 have, and doing more with internal personnel.
09:51:00 Community affairs, the last year's beginning budget
09:51:02 was 1,065,000.
09:51:05 This year's threshold is 1,126,000.
09:51:09 They had a reduction of one position done through the
09:51:12 last fiscal year, they reduced one individual in the
09:51:13 department, so they have 12 that are still focused on
09:51:17 on the central mission of the division, and under
09:51:20 neighborhood and community relations, the beginning
09:51:22 budget for FY 08 was 341,389.
09:51:27 With three individuals in the department, one
09:51:29 individual has been reduced in that department -- I'm
09:51:32 sorry, maintain the department, so they still have
09:51:36 One was reduced the prior year.
09:51:37 And they are at 351,391.
09:51:41 Again looking for cost savings that are not --
09:51:45 >>MARY MULHERN: Santiago, I'm sorry to interrupt, but
09:51:48 I'm just doing this so we can speed up the process,
09:51:51 although I think you talk fast because you talk fast.
09:51:57 You are rattling off these numbers.
09:52:00 Is it in our packet?
09:52:02 >>> They are in the handout you received with the
09:52:04 three-hole punch.
09:52:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The one we had the other day.
09:52:08 >>MARY MULHERN: You know, I brought up some of these
09:52:11 issues just with this process of what's presented to
09:52:17 us and how it's presented to us, and I think it's
09:52:21 something we need to look at and make sure that when
09:52:23 we actually go to the presenting the budget we have
09:52:27 actual -- actually what we need in a reader audience
09:52:34 friendly, council-friendly format so we can compare.
09:52:36 And I think -- I'm glad that John brought this up
09:52:40 because you actually -- your departments are the ones
09:52:43 that have taken the biggest hit.
09:52:45 And I think if you look at that overall, just your
09:52:50 budget has just been slashed in the last couple of
09:52:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And the folks who are watching out
09:52:59 thereof who happen to be the most important peep, our
09:53:02 constituents, they don't see this document.
09:53:04 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
09:53:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's sitting in front of me.
09:53:08 So even though I might have it, it's more important
09:53:10 that Santiago says it, okay?
09:53:12 Because when folks in this community say they want tax
09:53:15 cuts, that's fine.
09:53:18 But they need to know what the ramifications are in
09:53:21 neighborhood services.
09:53:22 They need to know what the ramifications are in parks.
09:53:25 Parks is potentially losing X number of people, you
09:53:29 know, or shutting down hours for pools or that sort of
09:53:33 That's the type of thing this community needs to know.
09:53:35 And that's why I think it's more important that we
09:53:37 emphasize those types of things as we make these
09:53:41 And it not to be doom and gloom because I know that's
09:53:46 not the nature of this administration but at the same
09:53:47 time we can't always put on the happy face and pretend
09:53:50 that everything is great because it's not.
09:53:53 There is ramifications to every action that we take as
09:53:57 a community.
09:53:57 And it's important that we are straight up about it.
09:54:00 That's my whole point.
09:54:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm totally in support of that.
09:54:05 And I would like to see us get more direct information
09:54:10 like that.
09:54:10 And I think -- I was going to talk about this at the
09:54:14 end, just because we can't change what you have to
09:54:17 present to us today, what everybody here has.
09:54:21 But what we really need to see is positions, job
09:54:27 classifications, which ones -- how many have been
09:54:32 eliminated, what the personnel costs are per position,
09:54:39 and what's being proposed for next year.
09:54:42 I mean, how much of our budget, more than half of the
09:54:46 budget, what, two-thirds of the budget is personnel.
09:54:48 So if we can't really see what those costs are, it's
09:54:51 hard for us to everyone know what's being proposed for
09:54:54 us to approve.
09:54:55 So I'm not saying this to you.
09:54:58 Since John brought the whole topic up.
09:55:00 I'm saying it to Bonnie and Jim.
09:55:04 >>> Madam Chair, I really appreciate those comments.
09:55:07 And I can tell you -- I guess Bonnie needs to add
09:55:10 something to that -- but, you know, we absorb some
09:55:13 very significant cuts the last fiscal year.
09:55:16 They are a lot better this fiscal year and that's why
09:55:19 I'm not throwing out huge numbers of reductions in my
09:55:23 first portion of this presentation.
09:55:25 We did absorb some huge reductions last year.
09:55:28 But because of some of the cost saving measures we
09:55:32 implemented, because we knew what the rules of the
09:55:34 game were going to be, we have been able to minimize
09:55:36 those kinds of personnel reductions going into this
09:55:40 So, you know, not trying to sugarcoat anything.
09:55:42 Last year was a difficult year.
09:55:44 This year is much better.
09:55:45 So, you know, we are still reducing.
09:55:47 We are still cutting costs.
09:55:49 We are still trying to minimize the impact to the
09:55:52 But again this year it's much better for us than last
09:55:58 >>BONNIE WISE: I did want to share with you that in
09:56:00 the handout that you received yesterday, it does have
09:56:02 the comparison from '08 to '09 and I do understand
09:56:05 that people watching on TV can't see that, but those
09:56:09 comparisons are there.
09:56:10 In addition, as I mentioned at the beginning, any
09:56:13 reductions that they are proposing is -- are in your
09:56:17 The threshold over the threshold.
09:56:19 So if there's a reduction in force, that is included
09:56:23 in detail in the book or if they are asking for
09:56:25 additional as in the case of fire as I mentioned
09:56:27 before that that would be included in there as well.
09:56:29 Now once again, this is not a final budget.
09:56:32 This is, you know, what the departments have
09:56:34 submitted, and at the time the budget is presented on
09:56:38 August 7th you know that will be the final budget.
09:56:40 But this is what we have at this time.
09:56:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
09:56:45 First of all I don't think anyone in the public sees
09:56:48 any part of the budget, on the big book or small
09:56:50 become or any book.
09:56:52 It's just not that I have been here ever been done,
09:56:56 unless you want to scroll it on the TV and let them
09:56:58 write down the numbers as they go by.
09:57:01 I want to compliment the clean city area for having a
09:57:05 double increase from 06 to 08.
09:57:08 You went from 76 to 156 events and that's significant.
09:57:13 That's public input.
09:57:15 In your parks, recreation, things that you do.
09:57:19 When I look at this budget as a whole, you have to
09:57:22 understand what's happened in this country.
09:57:26 The corporations that are laying off tens of thousands
09:57:30 of people, not only in the home industry of
09:57:33 manufacturing and building houses, but in the
09:57:37 automobile industry, where we are losing the grip and
09:57:41 sales are down significantly.
09:57:43 I understand that even now General Motors is again
09:57:45 going to reductions.
09:57:48 They have big reductions at General Motors, Chrysler,
09:57:50 Ford, and every banking organization, Citibank, Bank
09:57:54 of America, all of them have laid off thousands of
09:57:58 I am not immune personally to having this job or any
09:58:03 job, because tomorrow something may happen
09:58:06 drastically, and you have -- each individual in this
09:58:10 country has to prepare and government can't be
09:58:14 everything for everybody at the same time.
09:58:16 You yourself have to prepare for what you are going to
09:58:19 do if some event happens.
09:58:21 If you are in debt and you can't make your payment, I
09:58:25 didn't get you in debt.
09:58:26 This government didn't get you in debt.
09:58:28 United States government didn't get knew debt.
09:58:30 The state government didn't get knew debt.
09:58:32 You put yourself in debt.
09:58:35 Either you misread a contract or did something, and I
09:58:38 have sympathy for that.
09:58:39 How do I solve that?
09:58:41 I really don't know.
09:58:42 But what I'm saying is, we are facing a different time
09:58:47 from any time in the future, at this present time from
09:58:50 any time in the past, I should say, that I served
09:58:52 This is not a gloom and glory but it's also not a gory
09:58:58 and gloom which is how wonderful it is, how bad it is,
09:59:02 but it's better.
09:59:03 This is a reality, a statement of fact, and that's
09:59:06 what I want presented.
09:59:08 Thank you very much.
09:59:10 >>MARY MULHERN: I think you were interrupted.
09:59:16 >>> Yes.
09:59:17 Those were the four agencies under neighborhood
09:59:19 The next is a department of code enforcement stands on
09:59:21 its own.
09:59:23 Their FY 08 beginning budget was 4,568,000.
09:59:27 This year, their threshold budget is 4,546,000.
09:59:33 They will be faced with a reduction of two positions
09:59:35 this year, two vacant positions that have not been
09:59:40 They are -- their initiatives for this year are to
09:59:43 really deal with abandoning and foreclosed properties
09:59:46 that we see arising throughout the city, coming up
09:59:49 with a plan to deal with those, developing interim
09:59:53 solutions to their outdated operating system.
09:59:57 As you know, they have been working with an old
10:00:01 technology, and also now dealing with the logistics of
10:00:05 the reorganization of code and business tax.
10:00:08 They are working on, working with legal to develop and
10:00:11 process managing liens and collection of fines to help
10:00:16 with revenues.
10:00:17 So they are working on a number of issues related to
10:00:19 this integration of business tax, the business tax
10:00:22 department of course is always looking to increase the
10:00:25 number of rental certificates, limit the number ever
10:00:28 unpaid tax receipts.
10:00:32 Their operating budget, their threshold budget for FY
10:00:35 09 is $822,000 reduced from $831,000, and that is the
10:00:41 reduction of one position, when Mr. Slater came over
10:00:44 to the code enforcement department, the old manager's
10:00:48 position was deleted because he is now the director
10:00:50 for both agencies together.
10:00:52 Code enforcement and business --
10:00:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Tax used to answer to you, Bonnie.
10:00:58 You shifted it over to Santiago?
10:01:02 >>> That was my idea.
10:01:04 She wasn't happy about it.
10:01:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Oh, sorry.
10:01:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Santiago was for it.
10:01:13 >>> Actually, we heard from the public there were
10:01:16 issues with illegal businesses popping up in
10:01:18 communities, rental, boarding homes coming up in
10:01:21 communities, and this is a way to really integrate
10:01:25 those folks that issue those rental certificates and
10:01:27 those business tax receipts with those folks that have
10:01:30 to go out and enforce the code.
10:01:32 So it's really a way to become more efficient and
10:01:35 again reduce costs, be able to reduce our management
10:01:38 position there.
10:01:38 >> There are any positions on code?
10:01:44 And the Tampa Theatre sits as a quasi-department of
10:01:47 the city.
10:01:48 Their budget last year, beginning budget was 211,454.
10:01:53 And this year it's 204,000 and some change.
10:01:57 And we provide a lot of operational support to the
10:01:58 Tampa Theatre, as well as they receive funding under
10:02:03 the fun 200 not for profit which we are not cutting
10:02:08 this year and that remains at the same level as last
10:02:12 The parks and recreation -- I'm sorry?
10:02:20 >>MARY MULHERN: Let him finish.
10:02:21 >>> I'm really done with neighborhood services.
10:02:25 I am going to pass the baton to Karen Palus to parks
10:02:30 and recreation.
10:02:31 It's a large department and she has been very involved
10:02:33 in their development.
10:02:34 >>MARY MULHERN: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:02:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have been concerned for a long
10:02:40 time that code enforcement hasn't been as successful
10:02:43 as it might be, and actually levying fines for
10:02:48 And I wondered if you tracked that specifically.
10:02:52 >>> We do.
10:02:53 It's actually tracked through our legal department.
10:02:56 They are involved in the collection of those fines and
10:03:01 And again one of the initiatives for code enforcement
10:03:03 this year is to work specifically and focus on the
10:03:08 collection of those fines through our legal department
10:03:10 to help with incoming revenues.
10:03:12 >> I'm very pleased to hear that for two reasons.
10:03:15 One is that we need the money.
10:03:17 And secondly, that I think that people don't take it
10:03:19 seriously when we don't force them to pay the fines.
10:03:24 And I think that we need to improve our code
10:03:26 enforcement generally.
10:03:28 I'm very pleased that Mr. Slater is in charge now.
10:03:32 And I think what we might do now as part of our budget
10:03:36 hearing but for council is to get quarterly reports
10:03:39 from you all and how that's going.
10:03:40 >> And again with the help much City Council last
10:03:43 year, we passed the civil citation, a process which
10:03:48 will in addition generate revenues for the city based
10:03:50 on those individuals that have flagrant violations
10:03:53 and -- violations and are repeat offenders.
10:03:56 We went through that whole City Council.
10:03:57 >> Now that we have the infrastructure in place I look
10:04:01 forward tort revenues increasing or perhaps not.
10:04:03 Maybe everybody will pay attention to what they should
10:04:05 do in terms of code enforcement and that will be fine.
10:04:08 >> Make sure everyone is in compliance.
10:04:10 That's what we really like is for everyone to keep
10:04:12 their property at the minimum standards that are set
10:04:15 by code.
10:04:16 And now I really want to turn over the presentation to
10:04:19 Karen Palus to speak about parks and recreation.
10:04:22 They have really done a tremendous job reorganizing,
10:04:25 optimizing, reducing costs, and again they faced some
10:04:30 significant reductions last year.
10:04:31 I don't think they are of the same magnitude this
10:04:34 And really want to thank Karen for all of her diligent
10:04:37 work in working with a very large budget and a very
10:04:41 large department.
10:04:44 >>KAREN PALUS: Parks and recreation director.
10:04:50 I want to thank Santiago for those comments, and thank
10:04:54 my team for all of their efforts.
10:04:56 Our current management team as well as the staff has
10:04:59 worked very, very hard over this last year, trying to
10:05:02 be creative, innovative ways to use grant
10:05:05 opportunities, any other funding opportunities in
10:05:08 The key is going to be continuing this partnership
10:05:11 throughout the year.
10:05:13 A good example of that is our partnership with the
10:05:16 playground foundation, we built a beautiful playground
10:05:19 and came with public dollars, and those are examples
10:05:23 of things we'll continue to do.
10:05:25 Also continue to work with outside agencies, provide
10:05:27 services, and we'll continue in that effort.
10:05:30 Our goals for this year as for last were to continue
10:05:33 to focus on our operations and maintenance of our
10:05:36 facility, keep them to the highest standard if
10:05:39 possible, and to provide the programming that is
10:05:41 necessary as well in the community.
10:05:43 We are also looking to manage our trends, and our
10:05:46 trend issues.
10:05:48 Currently we provide a tremendous amount of
10:05:51 However, our baby boomers are about to enter the
10:05:54 system and that will be a huge impact on the Parks and
10:05:56 Recreation Department over the next five or ten years.
10:05:58 So that is part of our process.
10:06:02 Again with our infrastructure and our facilities we
10:06:04 continue to focus on our project, about 124 of them in
10:06:07 the queue right now and continue to focus through
10:06:10 those different community efforts, large-scale
10:06:13 projects under consideration.
10:06:20 Smaller projects in neighborhoods, adding ADA
10:06:23 improvements, and beautification projects.
10:06:25 So we'll continue to focus on those areas and move
10:06:27 through the projects throughout the city.
10:06:30 I want to get down to what Santiago mentioned the nuts
10:06:34 and bolts of our budget overall.
10:06:36 You will see our total budget from 08 was 36,075,080,
10:06:42 and we are going to a new threshold budget currently
10:06:46 scheduled for 35,348,785, a reduction of a little over
10:06:51 $700,000 and does reduce us by 27 positions.
10:06:55 What those 27 positions are, from a myriad of
10:06:58 recreation positions that we held vacant through this
10:07:01 past year, as attrition has occurred in these
10:07:05 different positions, some part-time, some full-time,
10:07:05 some fitness level positions, and aquatic positions,
10:07:11 and what we have been able to do through the efforts
10:07:13 of all the staff out there has been really look at our
10:07:15 numbers within our facilities, make sure our ratios
10:07:19 are appropriate and that they are safe and continue to
10:07:22 move our staff around to meet those requirements.
10:07:26 It's very key to us as far as registration processes.
10:07:29 Those are some of the things that will impact the
10:07:30 community as we are registering in advance, so we know
10:07:33 what those numbers are, to plan for those, and we have
10:07:36 been very successful this summer in initiating that
10:07:38 effort to really get our folks in before summer
10:07:40 starts, to get your registration information in and
10:07:45 So those are some of the impacts in the community but
10:07:47 it's really a planning process for us, which has been
10:07:50 exception will a, the community has appreciated that
10:07:51 as well so they can plan as appropriate for their
10:07:53 activities and such.
10:07:55 Again those vacancies that are shown there, and that
10:08:00 is not as much of an impact at last year.
10:08:04 We were just at about a hundred.
10:08:05 And we are continuing to focus on different ways to
10:08:07 manage our staff differently.
10:08:09 We are overall have instituted an optimization
10:08:17 And we are going to look to -- need to look to the
10:08:21 future for changes for our department.
10:08:22 We have been preparing for it and planning for it and
10:08:25 some of these reductions and some of the things we are
10:08:27 doing are really putting up in that position.
10:08:30 Our goal was our parks.
10:08:33 Right now they are coming into the central area and
10:08:36 renting back out facilities.
10:08:37 We are placing them in their parks, giving them
10:08:40 ownership accountability and so they know who their
10:08:44 staff people are within their parks and they know who
10:08:47 to go to and how to get things done directly in those
10:08:50 locations so they are not in vehicles, and some of the
10:08:53 reductions you see for us as well.
10:08:55 We are not having as large of a motor pal because we
10:08:57 don't need as many pools because staff will be in
10:09:00 We are in the process of going through that now.
10:09:02 We have been working very diligently with HR to put
10:09:05 our new infrastructure in place and you will continue
10:09:07 to see that.
10:09:08 Council member Saul-Sena mentioned grant writing.
10:09:12 One of our positions is to focus on grants and what
10:09:15 grants are available out there as well as partnership,
10:09:17 and really explore and get out there and get folks out
10:09:21 there who really know what's available and tune in to
10:09:24 as much about what's available.
10:09:25 So we are focusing on that particular area, and our
10:09:28 programming element.
10:09:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Karen, thanks for your presentation
10:09:37 and your hard work.
10:09:41 In the notebook which I guess we have had for a few
10:09:44 days, it says 2007, budget details report.
10:09:55 It speaks to horticultural tech positions, positions
10:09:59 being deleted from mowing contract.
10:10:03 I see several of those.
10:10:10 >>KAREN PALUS: Yes, those are in there and with the
10:10:14 contract going forward to council.
10:10:16 But those positions are vacant positions it and so we
10:10:19 have held them in attrition.
10:10:21 And they are really a leftover from last year's
10:10:23 reductions where we made the same reduction occur with
10:10:27 several additional positions, for so we cut last year
10:10:34 in preparation for the mowing contract to go forward.
10:10:37 We need additional positions through the overall cost
10:10:40 of the contractual mowing that will put our entire
10:10:43 parks system on a mowing contract for all of our
10:10:46 Right now we kind of have a mixture of some
10:10:49 contractual of some staff.
10:10:51 So this will put all of that on there. But those were
10:10:54 left over from last year going forward into this year.
10:10:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess I'm confused then.
10:11:00 The contract that I saw on our agenda this coming
10:11:03 week, I thought, was for janitorial services.
10:11:09 >>> That's a separate.
10:11:12 >> Okay. And who is the other contract to?
10:11:15 >>> The mowing contract?
10:11:17 The mowing contract is for Greenturf who is
10:11:21 >> We already use Greenturf for some other --
10:11:24 >>> Yes, we do.
10:11:25 >> Do you use them in parks?
10:11:27 >>> We did, yes.
10:11:27 >> So you said that some of the positions are vacant
10:11:33 that you are not filling?
10:11:34 >>> The positions that are currently tied to the
10:11:36 mowing contract are all vacant positions through
10:11:39 attrition that we have held knowing that we
10:11:43 potentially need additional funding to move forward
10:11:45 with our mowing contract.
10:11:46 >> So there are no warm bodies associated with the
10:11:49 mowing contract that's on our agenda this coming week.
10:11:52 >>> Correct.
10:11:52 And there's 22 positions that were originally part of
10:11:58 that allocation.
10:11:59 >> But on the janitorial side there's 27 folks.
10:12:06 >>> Sales positions.
10:12:08 Currently there's three or four that are vacant as
10:12:11 part of that attrition as well.
10:12:15 >> Thank you for that clarification.
10:12:19 We'll have more discussion on Thursday, I'm sure.
10:12:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I wanted to thank you for
10:12:24 everything you do, specifically for continuing to
10:12:28 maintain the quality of the landscaping and for
10:12:31 I think you all probably read about the county ripping
10:12:35 out mature landscaping to safe money.
10:12:38 I think that is such a fool will hardy move and I'm
10:12:42 very complimentary to the city for not doing that, to
10:12:44 figure a way to continue to maintain our landscaping.
10:12:47 I want to sincerely thank you for that.
10:12:50 Secondly, the other day at the opening of the new rec
10:12:56 center, how -- I don't know if you know it's $40 for a
10:13:03 summer for a child, not $40 a week, not $40 a month,
10:13:07 it's $40 for a summer on a facility that doesn't have
10:13:10 a pool.
10:13:10 And I know for some families that is just a boon and
10:13:14 for other families they honestly could afford to pay
10:13:17 more, because frankly there's no child care that's $40
10:13:20 a week available, much less $40 a month much less $40
10:13:24 in summer.
10:13:25 And I think in fairness to your budget, you should do
10:13:31 some kind of analysis about what the market would
10:13:35 I don't want to negatively impact people for whom this
10:13:39 is a desperate move but I truly believe there are many
10:13:43 donors that could afford to pay a bit more for
10:13:48 providing activities for children in our recreational
10:13:51 centers, and I think it's only fair to your
10:13:54 department, your budgeting, to see what those costs
10:13:58 might be.
10:13:58 My thought is some kind of sliding scale in the same
10:14:02 spirit as reduced lunch program.
10:14:04 That might be the indices that you use.
10:14:08 But I think you need to reexam all of the fees we
10:14:12 charge for our rec center activities to make sure that
10:14:15 they are fair and not unduly low, that individuals
10:14:24 could afford a bit more.
10:14:25 >>> That is something we have been working on and are
10:14:27 very close to bringing it forward, not specifically --
10:14:31 we have quite a bit of information for all of these
10:14:33 but some of the things coming forward will be some of
10:14:35 our rentals, adding additional facilities, want to
10:14:39 bring some of the programming.
10:14:40 We have raised our programming fees, and I am going to
10:14:42 guess limited responses, we have not heard -- we did
10:14:50 what we could in the current fee structure.
10:14:53 However the one fee we would have the ability to raise
10:14:55 is compared to what they have been paying, it's so way
10:15:00 under market.
10:15:01 We weren't comfortable going in that direction.
10:15:04 We need to do something that's more patible and so it
10:15:09 can be managed for that as we prepare our budgets and
10:15:12 manage for ourselves.
10:15:14 We will be moving forward with that information.
10:15:17 >> Thank you.
10:15:18 >> One clarification.
10:15:20 Clean city is actually the one that over sees the
10:15:23 contract for the keeping up with those contracts.
10:15:28 >> The most affordable summer camp this summer.
10:15:39 Thank you for that.
10:15:40 And the best ones, mangrove market and Davis Island
10:15:46 tennis Len lessons.
10:15:48 I think that families that can't afford them should be
10:15:53 able to partake in those, but especially on Davis
10:15:56 Most of those parents dropping off, including myself,
10:15:59 can afford to pay a little more.
10:16:01 So I would like to keep those things going and help
10:16:05 you figure out a way to do that.
10:16:06 >>> I think there's a very easy way for to us do that.
10:16:11 >> And you might have said this but I didn't quite
10:16:15 With the 27 positions that will be vacant, are any of
10:16:21 those in the proposal to privatize the janitorial
10:16:30 services, are any of those park positions being lost?
10:16:37 >>> The positions in the current vacancies, the
10:16:39 numbers are the same but in the current vacancies are
10:16:42 not tied to the janitorial.
10:16:43 This will be a separate number of 27 positions that
10:16:45 will go to the janitorial contract.
10:16:47 >> Okay.
10:16:48 So of all those 27 positions, how many of those are
10:16:52 going to be eliminated that are actually layoffs?
10:16:57 >>> The ones for the janitorial contract specifically?
10:17:00 >> Or for what you see.
10:17:03 The ones that are currently in here are vacant so
10:17:05 there are no layoffs involved in that.
10:17:07 That's a restructuring of our operation and managing
10:17:10 our ratios for our program.
10:17:14 The additional 27 are pending contract on being
10:17:17 approved on Thursday.
10:17:18 So those are positions that are filled, I believe --
10:17:21 and I don't have all the HR -- HR goes through that
10:17:25 process but I believe we have at least three of those
10:17:27 that are potentially vacant right now if not four and
10:17:30 then the rest of them are individuals in those
10:17:32 positions which are service dependent positions.
10:17:35 >> So 22 or 23 layoffs?
10:17:41 And how much money are you saving with that?
10:17:45 >>> As far as the janitorial, we are currently
10:17:50 spending a little over $1.1 million, the proposed
10:17:53 contract is for $783,000.
10:17:59 And some change.
10:18:01 The total savings of $350,000.
10:18:09 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Are there any contingencies on
10:18:11 that contract, or add-ons on that 783,000?
10:18:17 >>> As far as additional services?
10:18:20 >> Yes.
10:18:21 Any extras?
10:18:21 >>> There are some, if we chose to exceed our service
10:18:26 contracts or we ask for additional services, there is
10:18:28 ability for to us do that, can charge more.
10:18:32 In the framework our current program covers everything
10:18:35 within our operation.
10:18:36 >> I believe we have some hourly based on what the
10:18:42 staff persons are, and then there is an overall amount
10:18:45 as well.
10:18:46 Because there's all of our services, products and
10:18:49 things that we are not going to be purchasing anymore,
10:18:51 all the cleaning supplies, and toiletries and all of
10:18:54 those things are all part of that contract.
10:18:56 >> So you are going to keep the same amount of service
10:18:58 right now, with that 783,000?
10:19:01 >>> Correct
10:19:09 I do have one other budget item, a small one but
10:19:12 I know they don't want to be left out.
10:19:15 We also have your marine budget for your review.
10:19:19 The budget last year was 695,218.
10:19:22 You will see an increase for FY 09, which is 728,832,
10:19:30 which very easily is fuel and fuel costs.
10:19:36 A little over $28,000 increase for the fuel costs, and
10:19:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Davis Island residents are really
10:19:47 eager to be able to use that space for additional
10:19:51 And my feeling is that perhaps it could even be
10:19:56 revenue generated from that and I hope that's
10:19:58 something you explore.
10:19:59 It's such a nice building.
10:20:00 >>> Very nice building.
10:20:01 >> You did an amazing job renovating it.
10:20:03 >>> Thank you.
10:20:05 We have a store planned that's going on construction
10:20:09 over the next 45 days or so, the maintenance group is
10:20:12 working on that.
10:20:13 Once they get that up and we'll get the supplies in
10:20:16 there, and actually it's going to go into the office
10:20:18 area, so if we did have a function like ice cream
10:20:22 social that's been very popular on Davis Island that
10:20:24 it wouldn't interfere with the activity of the -- it
10:20:28 could be closed up, locked up and secure.
10:20:30 >> And I have one other comment about marinas.
10:20:33 I have heard from a number of sources that there is
10:20:37 private sector interest in developing in
10:20:39 public-private partnerships marinas which would afford
10:20:43 more facilities, and generate some revenues for the
10:20:46 Are you going to be exploring that in the next fiscal
10:20:48 >>> Yes, they are.
10:20:49 They are going to do that for our Bayshore area.
10:20:52 We have looked at it from for the Marjorie Park
10:20:55 However, because a lot of tax issues and grant issues
10:20:57 and such, it's a little more muddy than we are ready
10:21:01 to take on but the Bayshore one is one we want to
10:21:04 definitely explore and see who is out there and who is
10:21:07 We probably get a call every two months from somebody
10:21:10 very interested in that property and being able to
10:21:12 bring a marina to the community.
10:21:13 >> And also water taxis, and again potential revenue
10:21:19 Thank you.
10:21:21 >>MARY MULHERN: I have one more question I have to ask
10:21:23 you because my son is bugging me.
10:21:27 The fountain at the sandy Freedman tennis center,
10:21:33 what's up with that?
10:21:33 >>> It's currently not available to operate, because
10:21:35 of the water restrictions.
10:21:38 However, I do have staff already evaluating that to
10:21:41 see, to see if we can bring it up to acceptable use
10:21:46 and so we have folks that are doing things on that
10:21:53 >> The people who work there are weird because there
10:21:55 are skateboarders and people using it as really a
10:21:58 safety issue, too.
10:22:00 So whatever we can do to get that going.
10:22:05 >>> They are already getting to work on that.
10:22:07 So it gives us a lot more flexibility with that
10:22:10 particular fountain.
10:22:12 >> If we are waiting for reclaimed, how long is it
10:22:14 going to be before it available?
10:22:16 >>> It available there.
10:22:16 We just need to make the connection.
10:22:19 The fountain has been down for so long it needs
10:22:22 So it's got to get renovations to occur first, and
10:22:26 trying to get the cost estimate on that before we move
10:22:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I was absent but I was in the room
10:22:34 By the time I got here the subject matter shifted.
10:22:36 I think Mrs. Saul-Sena was talking about docks and
10:22:40 boats and things of that nature which I am very much
10:22:43 I don't know the outcome because I was rushing to get
10:22:46 here but I am not in favor of private-governmental
10:22:51 I think this waterfront belongs to the taxpayers, not
10:22:54 the private condo builders or anyone who is going to
10:22:57 make a profit off the boat docks that are necessary.
10:23:01 And we still do have a waiting list of over 200.
10:23:04 Am I correct, that want slips?
10:23:06 >> Yes.
10:23:07 >>: So there is money to be made.
10:23:08 All you have to do is make the investment.
10:23:10 I wish I had 200 coming into the restaurant every
10:23:14 night when I had a restaurant.
10:23:20 Whatever came in would give me 350 people.
10:23:23 I don't have that.
10:23:23 But we have that in this city.
10:23:25 And if you look at other cities like St. Pete, and
10:23:28 Sarasota, and other areas, you will see that those
10:23:31 docks, you build them, they fill up the next day.
10:23:34 And you have got customers.
10:23:35 And I'm not anti--anything but I am anti- giving away
10:23:42 private corporations to public lands for private
10:23:45 individuals to make money on.
10:23:47 >>> Council Miranda, you have had that conversation
10:23:49 before and I want to share with you like the St. Pete
10:23:52 docks, those are actually done through a company
10:23:54 marina international, so it's an organization that
10:23:56 actually provides it for governmental entities.
10:23:59 So there are some groups out there that work with
10:24:01 governments directly.
10:24:02 >> I'm glad you brought that up because I have been
10:24:04 lobbied already through the mail, we are going to fix
10:24:07 your city, we are going to beautify your city.
10:24:09 When you look at it it's the people in the marina
10:24:12 business that want your land, and your 200 customers
10:24:15 that you have on the list.
10:24:16 I'm not afraid of going in debt if I have a revenue
10:24:19 stream that will pay off the debt.
10:24:20 And I think we do have the revenue stream to pay off
10:24:24 the debt.
10:24:24 >>KAREN PALUS: Thank you.
10:24:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Karen.
10:24:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Miranda, I don't know if we
10:24:39 have to money to do it, we should do it if the private
10:24:42 sector has money.
10:24:45 I just want to see docks and activity and water taxis.
10:24:49 I just want to see something get off the dime.
10:24:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand that very much, Mrs.
10:24:55 However, I don't mind waiting, if this administration
10:24:59 and this council wants to do it, we can do it.
10:25:03 There is no doubt about that.
10:25:04 We did Marjorie Park.
10:25:07 The one on the Bayshore was saved by this council when
10:25:11 the condominium builder wanted to come in and sell the
10:25:14 rights to the docks for 100,000 each, add to the price
10:25:19 of the condo then you can have it.
10:25:21 And at the end you got a few pennies, the city did.
10:25:25 That's not the way to do business.
10:25:27 When you control the waterfront and you control what
10:25:29 you want and you control the price, that's the way to
10:25:32 do business.
10:25:33 And you have all the commodity, just like we have our
10:25:36 own waterfront.
10:25:37 Just like we have our own treatment plant.
10:25:41 There's nothing wrong with this city being in the
10:25:43 marina business.
10:25:44 The marina never lost money, even when they never put
10:25:48 a nail into the old wooden docks, when they were
10:25:53 dilapidated to the point where the roaches weren't
10:25:55 even living there.
10:25:56 And that's a fact.
10:25:58 And I can prove everything I've said.
10:26:06 >>BONNIE WISE: Next we have growth management and
10:26:08 development services.
10:26:09 When Councilman Mulhern and I met we talked about
10:26:12 emphasis on the green initiatives that the city has so
10:26:15 Thom Snelling is here also to talk about that.
10:26:20 And Cindy Miller.
10:26:23 >>CINDY MILLER: Director of growth management
10:26:27 development services.
10:26:28 And the divisions that are under growth management, I
10:26:33 just want to outline them for you because I think they
10:26:38 touch especially from last year's budget to this
10:26:42 year's budget.
10:26:43 Basically the duties we have are covered by housing
10:26:45 and community development division otherwise known as
10:26:48 affordable housing division, construction services
10:26:50 division, real estate, architecture review and
10:26:54 historic preservation, land development, and urban
10:26:57 So it covers sort of a broad area.
10:27:00 I would say we have a big family.
10:27:02 For the information that was distributed to you today,
10:27:04 I think would be the easiest to refer to.
10:27:08 And you are going to see something a little bit
10:27:10 different when you are looking at our summary page
10:27:13 that is growth management development services
10:27:18 It's going to look like our personnel has increased,
10:27:21 which is a very different look than what you have been
10:27:25 Let me outline while you are seeing that.
10:27:28 The construction service division and the real estate
10:27:31 division for a number of years, probably 20 years,
10:27:34 have had other employees that are paid for by other
10:27:37 departments and divisions, housed within their
10:27:41 facilities and they consider -- what we were able to
10:27:46 do from the standpoint of the permanency increase that
10:27:48 is council approved that were affected January 1st
10:27:50 of this year is that we are anticipating revenue
10:27:54 generation of about an extra million dollars from the
10:27:58 permit fee changes and increases for both commercial
10:28:01 and residential permits.
10:28:03 What we were able to do a few weeks ago is transfer
10:28:06 personnel from parks and recreation and other
10:28:10 departments onto construction services payroll.
10:28:14 So this is already having an effect of assisting for
10:28:17 the payment of other general fund employees to be paid
10:28:20 for through the permitting process.
10:28:22 So I do thank the cooperation that council has given
10:28:27 us to be able to do that.
10:28:28 So let me talk in broader terms as to what we are
10:28:31 looking really looking at in total employees.
10:28:33 When you see our numbers of 128 in growth management
10:28:37 other than housing plus 24 you really have to add 28
10:28:41 more people on from last year's budget to get the full
10:28:45 Those were from other divisions and departments.
10:28:49 When you look at our '09 threshold budget we have 133
10:28:53 in growth management, plus 24 in housing, plus an
10:28:56 additional 15 employees that are housed and worked in
10:29:00 my department but their paychecks are come from
10:29:03 another fund.
10:29:04 It is our beginning over the next couple of years that
10:29:08 you will see them totally funded through growth
10:29:10 management which will be a positive because it will
10:29:13 help the general fund as well as some of our other
10:29:15 enterprise funds as well.
10:29:16 So I just want to make it clear that this is not where
10:29:19 we have more employees.
10:29:20 As a matter of fact, in total numbers, for the folks
10:29:23 who consider themselves members of our department, our
10:29:26 '08 budget was 180 employees and we will be done over
10:29:31 170 when we come back to you with our fiscal '09
10:29:38 So we have seen a decrease mostly through vacant
10:29:40 positions, but we have had a couple of layoffs, that
10:29:44 bring our numbers down by about 12 staff members from
10:29:47 last year to this year.
10:29:48 So we still do have in absolute numbers a reduction of
10:29:52 the number of employees working for us, but again it
10:29:56 is a little confusing because in previous years they
10:29:58 were paid for by other departments.
10:30:02 Two key areas again are construction services, and our
10:30:08 housing division, with construction services that is
10:30:10 our goal to have construction services to be fully
10:30:13 self-sufficient by the end of fiscal 2010.
10:30:18 You might say, well, why are we still looking at that
10:30:20 with growth and things of that nature?
10:30:24 We are holding pretty stable.
10:30:25 We are down.
10:30:25 We are not going to say we are not.
10:30:27 The number of permits that have been applied for are
10:30:29 down from our five year median.
10:30:30 But keep in mind the five year median included two of
10:30:34 the highest level of years we have ever seen in Tampa
10:30:37 So we are maybe just sort of getting back to what
10:30:39 should be a nice, normal pace of growth.
10:30:43 Our intersections are down but again our inspectors
10:30:47 were doing as many as 25 inspections when they
10:30:49 probably should be doing 15 to 17 per day.
10:30:51 So we are finally sort of at a level where we think is
10:30:54 the appropriate performance measurements and also
10:30:56 giving the best service to our citizens and to the hub
10:31:00 that we serve.
10:31:02 When it comes to housing, we have a number of programs
10:31:06 that, as you know over the last couple of years, we
10:31:08 have gotten reenergized, we have had to do a few
10:31:11 tweaks in those, so we are looking at getting a few
10:31:14 other things moving again, also this year especially
10:31:16 when it comes to rehabilitation in existing housing,
10:31:20 and that will be forthcoming.
10:31:22 I will be doing a very in-depth report for you in a
10:31:25 workshop at the end of July.
10:31:27 From that standpoint you will have the full gamut of
10:31:29 our housing division.
10:31:30 Greatest challenge there, and I think all of you are
10:31:32 very aware of it when it comes to state and federal
10:31:35 funding, for our housing division, they are fully
10:31:37 funded through state and federal grants of all types.
10:31:41 So from that standpoint, declining revenues coming
10:31:45 from those sources are probably the greatest challenge
10:31:49 in the budget this year that will I believe be an
10:31:51 ongoing challenge as we look to the future.
10:31:54 We also, from a standpoint of where we are in this
10:31:58 threshold budget, which numbers, let me just give you
10:32:01 the totals for the growth management department.
10:32:05 Beginning budget of fiscal '08 is 10.8 million.
10:32:09 It shows tin crease up to 11.6.
10:32:12 Again the increase is because of looking at roughly
10:32:14 that million dollars in permit fees.
10:32:20 We will have a full year for fiscal '09.
10:32:23 And then we are also looking at other ways of funding
10:32:27 improvements, things that you haven't usually seen
10:32:30 come from my department.
10:32:32 The interstate preservation trust fund has been a
10:32:34 tremendous opportunity that we have not really taken
10:32:38 full advantage of.
10:32:39 And we will get back to you hopefully late they are
10:32:41 year, but I don't want to speak too much to it because
10:32:44 we have to still take it to the trust fund, and Bonnie
10:32:47 and I are on that committee together, so there will be
10:32:50 some forthcoming opportunities.
10:32:52 Where we think reestablishing an alley in Ybor, it's
10:32:58 going to be -- this is in a neighborhood, where we
10:33:01 have a number of lots really totally unusable because
10:33:04 they don't have back alley access off of Columbus.
10:33:07 That kind of improvement helps city owned property,
10:33:13 helps FDOT houses.
10:33:15 So this is something we have not come to you before
10:33:17 with a CIP, but we intend to do that late they are
10:33:21 So that has been an opportunity that we have really
10:33:24 looked for, and we think it will help in a number of
10:33:31 As to green initiatives, unless you have specific
10:33:34 questions on that, Thom is here for any questions.
10:33:37 When it comes to fulfilling the promise of the
10:33:42 resolution that you passed a couple of weeks ago, and
10:33:45 the new code that is on your agenda for this week, we
10:33:49 have looked at from the standpoint of we are not
10:33:52 seeking more funds from the standpoint of being able
10:33:54 to accomplish that.
10:33:56 Thom is the green officer for the city, has taken that
10:34:00 along with other responsibilities, and we will have a
10:34:02 team around the city, so that green initiative are
10:34:04 going to become a matter of life, not just something
10:34:07 that's new and different.
10:34:08 It's going to be something that will sort of permeate
10:34:11 the organization.
10:34:14 And I think that's something -- and councilman
10:34:16 Miranda, you are somebody that's been living it, not
10:34:18 just talking it, so we do appreciate that.
10:34:20 And that's what we have to do as city employees.
10:34:23 And I think there's a lot of opportunities.
10:34:25 Everything as simple as why do we keep using Styrofoam
10:34:29 cups all over the place, to really looking at the very
10:34:32 major initiatives that other department versus done
10:34:34 whether it's reclaimed water or the refuge to energy
10:34:38 plant which we take for granted because it's there.
10:34:40 But I can a sure you a number of other communities
10:34:42 would love to have those kinds of green capital
10:34:47 projects that we have here in Tampa.
10:34:48 So I'm available for questions as is Thom and other
10:34:53 members of my staff.
10:35:07 >>MARY MULHERN: I thought could you take some areas
10:35:09 where green initiatives would save us money.
10:35:11 Is that right?
10:35:12 Just want to give you a chance to talk about some of
10:35:15 >> I think Cindy said it best.
10:35:18 Thom Snelling, growth management.
10:35:20 I think Cindy said it best.
10:35:22 You are looking at some of the simplest things about
10:35:24 how when to save money in supplying some of the
10:35:27 various things they do around the various departments
10:35:29 but the initiatives right now, I have a small team I
10:35:32 am working with and putting together the program to
10:35:34 mirror what the resolution has passed and what the
10:35:36 ordinance has passed.
10:35:39 Last week right after it was passed, and we are
10:35:41 putting together a 30 day, a 3-month and 6-month
10:35:45 program so you can see in 30 days this is the lowest
10:35:47 hanging fruit which is very easily achieved, a 3-month
10:35:51 program and then a 6-month program and we are
10:35:53 approaching it systematically.
10:35:55 Reality is exactly what Cindy just said, it will have
10:35:58 to permeate through all of the departments.
10:36:01 It has to be a matter of this is how you do it now,
10:36:04 you know.
10:36:06 I will be thrilled with the day we no longer say this
10:36:09 is the green thing, that's the green thing, it's just
10:36:12 "the thing" and doesn't have to be a particular color,
10:36:15 it's just the way you do business, and that notion has
10:36:18 to get through all the departments and that's what we
10:36:20 are organizing right now.
10:36:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
10:36:26 Thom, as you well know, I think that and the
10:36:33 construction of green is basically the same as cost in
10:36:36 normal construction, however in retrofitting where you
10:36:39 haven't already established a grid of either solar or
10:36:41 whatever you have in there, you have to retrofit, that
10:36:44 becomes an expense, because then you have to redo
10:36:48 something that's already done and tear out what you
10:36:52 had there before.
10:36:54 And what I'm saying is, do you have any estimates of
10:36:58 any buildings that you may be looking at to created
10:37:03 with solar panels for heating and solar panels for
10:37:06 electricity, and do you have any ordinances on
10:37:10 windmills and things of this nature?
10:37:14 How can they go, or not go?
10:37:17 I am not going to tell you, I don't fall under any
10:37:19 category that you have.
10:37:20 >>> I don't know that we have looked at windmills.
10:37:25 But you are correct, councilman, the idea of
10:37:29 retrofitting is perhaps one of the better challenges.
10:37:31 And David Vaughan, a lot of the projects that he's
10:37:34 brought before you over tame, he is getting very
10:37:38 ingrained with respect to look at the products replace
10:37:42 and the retrofitting to reduce the energy costs so we
10:37:45 have made substantial changes in virtually every
10:37:47 project we have worked on and reducing the energy
10:37:51 Solar energy is something that, you know, you are in
10:37:54 the State of Florida, hopefully that's something else
10:37:56 that we can look at, because part of the charge was to
10:37:58 look at all efficiencies, all resources, alternative
10:38:03 That certainly is one of them that we are not going to
10:38:06 What councilman Saul-Sena asked before, and I will
10:38:08 echo about the notion of grants, there are a lot of
10:38:11 grants at the federal and at the state level that you
10:38:14 can't take advantage of, and we are pursuing that to
10:38:18 help out with some of the funding sources.
10:38:20 Both from the city standpoint, as well as encouraging
10:38:23 people who have building, or retrofitting of the
10:38:26 building for that, that they can apply for those
10:38:29 grants themselves.
10:38:30 So that's one of the funding sources we are hoping to
10:38:33 tap into greatly.
10:38:35 >> I agree with everything you said.
10:38:36 However, right now the technology to put all that up,
10:38:41 it very costly.
10:38:41 A regular home is about 45 to 50,000 and the grants
10:38:45 bring you down some.
10:38:46 But as I'm told by experts, not by me, that that
10:38:50 should be in half next year, the year after, when the
10:38:53 technology catches up to the reality of doing things
10:38:57 and making these minute -- not that you and I need
10:39:01 them -- those little hairs that are about one sixth
10:39:04 the size of a human hair that are coming out now with
10:39:06 some type of new fiber that creates a lot of energy
10:39:10 and is stronger than steel, and those are the things
10:39:12 that are coming out now that will be available in a
10:39:14 year, year and a half.
10:39:17 >>> Technology and what I have learned just from the
10:39:20 short period of time we have been focused on this is
10:39:22 changing literally daily.
10:39:24 You are right.
10:39:25 I think markets are opening up all the time.
10:39:27 It's probably akin to how cell phones work, before
10:39:32 that how calculators and computers.
10:39:34 Prices start out really high.
10:39:35 And now computers and cell phones and calculators are
10:39:40 virtually very inexpensive.
10:39:42 And they used to be like hundreds of dollars to get
10:39:44 that stuff, if you remember.
10:39:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
10:39:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is a question that is sort of
10:39:50 under your agency and perhaps under the
10:39:55 Does the city offer discounts for our city employees
10:40:00 who want to use Hart passes so they can use
10:40:04 Do they pick up part of the tab?
10:40:06 >>> I think it's about a 50% rebate -- not rebate, a
10:40:11 50% discount, bus pass for transit.
10:40:15 >> That's great.
10:40:16 I wondered if that was in our budget.
10:40:18 >>> We absolutely have that.
10:40:20 >> I want to share that information with our
10:40:23 Because even if we build the new facility on Columbus
10:40:29 drive, we have to provide parking, and if people are
10:40:32 using transit in most parking, it's all to the good to
10:40:37 our employees.
10:40:37 They save money.
10:40:38 We save money.
10:40:40 It's a good thing to use Hartline.
10:40:42 >>> It was standing room only on the way home and you
10:40:53 actually have to stand on the bus to go home now.
10:40:55 At this time first time I have ever seen that.
10:40:57 So now is the time to really take advantage of that
10:40:59 but strike while the iron is hot so to speak.
10:41:02 Because I think people are wait waking up to that and
10:41:05 wake up to the fact that ride ago bus is really not
10:41:07 the worst thing in the world.
10:41:11 >>MARY MULHERN: But riding a train is more fun.
10:41:13 [ Laughter ]
10:41:16 It's more popular.
10:41:17 People like trains better for some reason.
10:41:20 I just wanted to give you an opportunity or make some
10:41:24 suggestions, because I know we talked about this.
10:41:26 And you mentioned low-hanging fruit.
10:41:29 And I think that there are a lot of things we can do
10:41:32 where we don't spend any money and we save money.
10:41:36 We are not doing that right now.
10:41:38 And one of them was in the paper today, and I was
10:41:40 disappointed that the mayor wants to keep buying water
10:41:44 But there are best practices.
10:41:48 And I know you have looked at those at the U.S.
10:41:52 mayors -- I can't remember the council -- and the best
10:41:55 practices, and that's just one of the many, many
10:41:58 And I think that if we could hear from you at some
10:42:04 point soon with just a list of some things we are
10:42:07 doing, and another, you know, when Mr. Miranda talks
10:42:12 about retrofitting we need to do it in our own
10:42:14 building so you walk in the room and the lights go on
10:42:17 or the lights go off, all those sorts of things that I
10:42:19 know the county building is doing that.
10:42:22 And I think one of the reasons that Charlie is so
10:42:26 green is because he's very thrifty.
10:42:29 And -- [ Laughter ]
10:42:31 I didn't say it.
10:42:33 And if we just think like that, and green, everybody
10:42:37 is so tired of hearing that word, but the reality of
10:42:42 this conservation and could use less of everything.
10:42:46 So I would like to hear from you sometime soon about
10:42:49 what the city is doing with our resources, with our
10:42:57 buildings, our purchasing, everything, that isn't
10:43:01 costing us anything but it's saving us.
10:43:03 I think that's what you meant by low-hanging fruit.
10:43:06 And I would like to see us get, you know, as an
10:43:08 example, and also to save $32,000, which could fund at
10:43:13 least one of those parks jobs we are talking about,
10:43:18 stop buying bottled water.
10:43:33 >>> Okay.
10:43:33 That's it.
10:43:34 >>MARY MULHERN: Thanks a lot.
10:43:37 >>> I would like to thank all the department heads
10:43:40 As we mentioned not every department came before you
10:43:43 in these budget workshops.
10:43:44 So if you have any questions either for me or with
10:43:47 those department heads, we can of course set those
10:43:50 meetings up for you.
10:43:52 And then I wanted to give you all an opportunity to
10:43:54 talk about the City Council budget, if there was
10:43:56 anything in particular.
10:43:59 Unfortunately Chairman Scott is not here, and he did
10:44:03 submit a budget on City Council's behalf, so if there
10:44:06 was anything else in particular that you wanted me to
10:44:09 look at, I would like to do that with you.
10:44:16 >>MARY MULHERN: Doesn't look like anyone has any
10:44:18 comments on that at this point.
10:44:21 On our City Council budget?
10:44:28 I guess that's it.
10:44:34 Did you have anything else for us?
10:44:35 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to thank you and all your
10:44:38 staff and all the departments for the hard work you
10:44:42 are doing.
10:44:42 I know you care about the communities, you want them
10:44:47 to know what's in the budget, and they do get what's
10:44:49 in the budget.
10:44:50 They have an opportunity to meet with us, to meet with
10:44:52 you all, meet with the staff, they are going to see
10:44:54 everything that's going to be in the budget, and I
10:44:56 know that you are concerned about cutting positions,
10:44:59 but we know that.
10:45:02 We could be cut.
10:45:03 They could can you tell us down to five council
10:45:05 We don't know that.
10:45:07 So we know it hard for anybody.
10:45:10 And you are working hard to keep these people's jobs,
10:45:13 and I know we want to keep those jobs.
10:45:15 So whatever council is thinking, some think we are
10:45:19 trying to get rid of them.
10:45:20 But I don't think we are trying to get rid of anyone.
10:45:23 So I would like to thank the department heads for the
10:45:25 hard work, they go through that budget.
10:45:28 Before they present it to you, they do everything to
10:45:31 help the community, to help the citizens of Tampa, and
10:45:35 I want to say thank you for that and keep up the good
10:45:38 >>> Thank you.
10:45:40 Calling back to the meeting we had in the mayor's
10:45:42 office there was about $16 million that we look to
10:45:45 So it has been very difficult for all the department
10:45:47 directors to go through their budgets.
10:45:49 Of course, everything that they think is very
10:45:52 We keep going through this thought process, the
10:45:54 minimal impact to the public.
10:45:56 And so that's what we are doing as we are crafting the
10:45:58 budget for your review.
10:45:59 >>GWEN MILLER: It's going to be a budget we want to
10:46:04 see and it's going to be a good one that we can pass.
10:46:07 >>MARY MULHERN: And I want to thank you because it's
10:46:09 been great working with you on this, and we are
10:46:12 tweaking it.
10:46:14 The information is in here.
10:46:15 We just didn't have a whole lot of time as you know to
10:46:18 go through it.
10:46:19 So I want to just encourage everyone on council to go
10:46:21 over these departmental budgets and see if you do have
10:46:24 specific questions, because it is a lot of detail.
10:46:28 And the savings are in the details, too.
10:46:32 >> I realize it's a lot of paper.
10:46:39 I was really struggling with that but I know you
10:46:42 needed to have it for your information.
10:46:44 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: In reference to this article that
10:46:46 came from the New York Times, in my beauty salons, I
10:46:52 install what we call distillers.
10:46:57 You distill the water.
10:46:58 The reason I did that was you open up the refrigerator
10:47:02 and there was 10 that you bottles in there.
10:47:04 Some of them were buying the big gallons.
10:47:07 And there wasn't enough room.
10:47:09 But this is perhaps what the city should consider
10:47:12 looking at buying distillers and getting the
10:47:16 distillers installed.
10:47:17 And the water is 99% better than bottled water.
10:47:22 Bottled water is not pure.
10:47:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Even without the distillers it's
10:47:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: City water is the best water without
10:47:34 a distiller.
10:47:35 >>JOSEPH CATAENO: But we're running out of it,
10:47:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm going to save some for you,
10:47:37 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to talk about a few things.
10:47:44 Oh, first, is there anyone here from the public that
10:47:48 would like to speak?
10:47:52 We did have a notice for public hearing.
10:47:54 Okay, thank you.
10:47:55 I just wanted to talk to council, or talk a little bit
10:47:59 about the budget, the committee we are -- advisory
10:48:04 committee we are putting together.
10:48:05 I know that John has his person here.
10:48:08 And that's what I was going to say.
10:48:13 If you would like to -- and Charlie's person was here.
10:48:17 His alter ego.
10:48:19 But I think we can get the tape for the people who
10:48:26 couldn't be here today and that's what I am going to
10:48:28 have to do because my appointee was out of town.
10:48:32 I think it's going to help us a lot to have this
10:48:34 committee go through some of this detail for us, and
10:48:36 it will help, you know, the public to have some input.
10:48:40 And some comment on the budget.
10:48:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Are you going to structure the
10:48:46 Are we going to give you the information or give to
10:48:48 the clerk or give to Marty the information and then
10:48:53 you will convene?
10:48:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, we'll set up a meeting time for
10:48:56 first meeting.
10:48:57 And then I am not necessarily going to structure it.
10:49:01 I think they can structure themselves but we'll help
10:49:05 them in any way we can.
10:49:07 Bonnie and I still have to talk about having somebody
10:49:09 from her department that can kind of liaison and help
10:49:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: There is one more item, item one to
10:49:21 be received and filed along with the other documents.
10:49:24 >>: So moved.
10:49:25 >>: Second.
10:49:25 (Motion carried)
10:49:31 >>SAL TERRITO: If I may.
10:49:32 Legal department.
10:49:33 We'll have to give the budget advisory people a
10:49:36 briefing on sunshine laws and public laws, financial
10:49:39 disclosure, all those wonderful things they have to
10:49:41 know about.
10:49:42 So whenever you want to schedule that let me know and
10:49:45 I or somebody will be able to give them a briefing on
10:49:49 >>> At our council meeting we'll skull a meeting.
10:49:53 I'll talk to you about it.
10:49:54 Thank you, Sal.
10:49:57 >> So moved.
10:49:58 >> Second.
10:49:58 >>MARY MULHERN: All in favor?
10:50:01 (Motion carried)
10:50:02 We are adjourned.
10:50:03 (Meeting adjourned)
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