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Thursday, June 27, 2008
9:00 a.m. Session

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[Sounding gavel]
09:02:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called to order.
09:03:00 The chair will yield to Mr. John Dingfelder.
09:03:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Good morning, council.
09:03:05 It's my pleasure and honor to recognize our invocation
09:03:08 speaker today, the Reverend Dr. Jim Harnish.
09:03:13 Dr. Harnish is the senior pastor for Hyde Park United
09:03:16 Methodist Church, since 1992, married to Marsha, have
09:03:21 two daughters and two grandchildren.
09:03:23 He comes to us with an education from Asbury College

09:03:26 and Asbury Theological Seminary, multiple degrees, and
09:03:30 also Bethune Cookman university in 2007.
09:03:35 According to Dr. Harnish, the most important thing he
09:03:37 does in his church is list the vision of God's call,
09:03:40 preach the word and be faithful and pray.
09:03:42 Dr. Harnish, if you will lead us in the invocation
09:03:45 followed by the pledge of allegiance, we'll all stand.
09:03:47 >> Thank you.
09:03:48 Let's turn together in prayer.
09:03:50 Almighty God, the giver of every good gift, we gather
09:03:56 in this place to give thanks and to pray for these
09:04:00 your servants, and for all those whom they represent.
09:04:06 In challenging times, one of the challenges that you
09:04:12 place before us.
09:04:13 In days of limited resources, protect us from limited
09:04:18 vision of the good that can be accomplished.
09:04:27 In days of shrinking wealth, remind us of the wealth
09:04:31 of relationships, and our compassion, our love, our
09:04:36 generosity to one another N.these times of challenge,
09:04:39 give us great vision for the challenges that you place
09:04:43 before us, the strength to do them, the wisdom to
09:04:47 fulfill them, and the compassion to make them human.

09:04:53 We give you grateful thanks.
09:04:56 Amen.
09:04:58 (Pledge of Allegiance)
09:05:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
09:05:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:05:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:05:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:05:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:05:24 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:05:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:05:28 >>GWEN MILLER: At this time we'll have the Officer of
09:05:30 the Month.
09:05:37 Officer Wilson Harrison and his family, please come
09:05:49 up.
09:05:50 We are very happy this morning, council, to present
09:05:52 the Officer of the Month to officer Wilson Harrison.
09:06:06 >>CHIEF HOGUE: Once again thank you for presenting
09:06:07 this opportunity to have an Officer of the Month.
09:06:10 We are very pleased to announce our Officer of the
09:06:13 Month for June 2008 is chase Harrison who is right
09:06:18 here tore my right.
09:06:19 And we have kind of a little different situation this

09:06:24 month that has a little different twist to it, and it
09:06:28 has a good outcome, so we are kind of very happy about
09:06:31 this Officer of the Month in particular.
09:06:35 Chase works the midnight shift.
09:06:38 And it's 2:00 in the morning, and he's doing what
09:06:41 really all good midnight shift officers should do, and
09:06:47 that is he's out there, there's no calls for service
09:06:50 that he's on at the moment, and he's going around to
09:06:52 the businesses that are in his zone, he's shaking the
09:06:55 doors to see if anybody is trying to break into them
09:06:58 or somebody maybe left their door unlocked
09:07:01 inadvertently that he can call the owner and get them
09:07:04 down to secure their business.
09:07:05 And when he does, he goes into a little shopping mall,
09:07:08 a little strip center, and he shakes all the doors,
09:07:11 and then he walks around to the back.
09:07:13 And he looks up into the distance, and it's 2:00 in
09:07:17 the morning, and he looks off into the distance, and
09:07:20 with about a block away or a little farther, standing
09:07:23 on the next street behind the business under the
09:07:26 streetlight is two guys looking at him, which is a
09:07:29 little unusual at 2:00 in the morning to have two

09:07:31 people watching contently for your arrival around the
09:07:35 back of the building.
09:07:36 And so chase goes and gets in his car, spins it around
09:07:40 to where they are, and the foot pursuit is on.
09:07:43 There's two of them.
09:07:44 They split up.
09:07:45 He catches one of them.
09:07:49 No indication of -- these businesses.
09:07:57 He doesn't relate it to where he's at at the time that
09:08:00 these folks are a block away.
09:08:01 He just thought maybe they were up to no good in a
09:08:04 neighborhood, maybe breaking into cars or something
09:08:06 like that.
09:08:07 So he captures one, and of course this person doesn't
09:08:10 know anything about anything, and which is pretty
09:08:13 typical, doesn't have any identification on him, and
09:08:19 using very good police skills, because when you really
09:08:22 don't have anything on anybody, you don't really have
09:08:25 a right to detain them and that kind of stuff unless
09:08:28 you have certain circumstances.
09:08:31 And chase worked everything into a voluntary
09:08:34 compliance.

09:08:35 Would you take me to where you are living?
09:08:37 Oh, sure, I would be happy to.
09:08:38 I'll give you a ride.
09:08:39 So chase gives him a ride back to his hotel.
09:08:42 Well, he didn't realize what had happened was that him
09:08:46 and his partner had just broken into a jewelry store
09:08:49 in that strip center.
09:08:50 We have the jewelry store owner with us today right
09:08:52 over here, because he had never met chase before
09:08:55 today.
09:08:55 And the guy who got away got back to the car, and had
09:09:02 gone back to the motel room, and dropped a bag of
09:09:07 $100,000, about 500 pieces of jewelry that they had
09:09:12 stolen from this gentleman and completely wiped out
09:09:14 his business, because he had no insurance, and he was
09:09:18 essentially out of business at this point in time.
09:09:22 Chase gets there.
09:09:24 He says this is a huge bag of jewelry.
09:09:27 He didn't think it was real.
09:09:29 He said my gosh, look at all this.
09:09:31 He talks to the guy about it.
09:09:32 The guy, he doesn't know anything about this

09:09:34 jewelry, "I don't know where it came from" and chase
09:09:38 says, then you don't mind if I take it for safe
09:09:41 keeping, do you?
09:09:41 No, I don't care.
09:09:43 Then he said, would you come back to the station with
09:09:45 me so we can take your fingerprints?
09:09:47 And he did.
09:09:47 And the guy volunteered to have his fingerprints
09:09:50 taken.
09:09:51 And so we don't have any charges on him.
09:09:54 Chase lets him walk because we don't have any charges
09:09:56 on him.
09:10:02 We are putting the evidence into property room, and
09:10:08 the call goes out later on that morning that in fact
09:10:12 this gentleman's business has been burglarized, this
09:10:18 is the stolen property from that, the detective
09:10:22 sergeant over here took the photograph, because we
09:10:28 were processing the jewelry, took the photograph of
09:10:30 the jewelry out to this jewelry store and said, is
09:10:34 this your stuff?
09:10:35 And when the wife saw it she started crying because
09:10:38 she knew she was wiped out and now they had their

09:10:41 business back.
09:10:41 So that's why chase is Officer of the Month, because
09:10:45 not only was he doing his job out there, putting
09:10:49 himself in harm's way, but he literally saved the
09:10:52 business person in this community's livelihood.
09:10:55 So we are very, very proud of him.
09:10:57 And I would like to present chase as our Officer of
09:10:59 the Month.
09:11:00 [ Applause ]
09:11:02 >>GWEN MILLER: On behalf of City Council I would like
09:11:10 to give you a commendation, all those good things
09:11:13 people say about you.
09:11:14 We are very proud of you.
09:11:15 At this time we'll have some gifts, and if you will
09:11:25 come over here.
09:11:26 >> On behalf of the Florida Aquarium I want to thank
09:11:30 you for everything you are doing in the community by
09:11:32 making it a better and safe place for us.
09:11:34 This is a family of four annual membership to the
09:11:37 aquarium.
09:11:37 Please use it with our kindest regards.
09:11:42 Thank you so much.

09:11:43 >>> Danny Lewis from Bill Currie Ford to present our
09:11:47 watch to the Officer of the Month.
09:11:49 Thank you very much, officer.
09:12:07 >> From vision eye care, we would like to give you a
09:12:13 gift certificate for a pair of rayban sunglasses.
09:12:20 >>> Michelle Patty.
09:12:23 We would like to present this gift card to you for a
09:12:27 job well done.
09:12:28 Thank you so much.
09:12:34 >> Steve Stickley representing Stepp's towing.
09:12:37 On behalf of Jim and Judy Stepp and towing, we have
09:12:44 this for you and a gift card to Lee Roy Selmon.
09:12:47 We appreciate what you do so much.
09:12:53 >> Tampa Lowry Park Zoo.
09:12:56 We would like to thank you for everything you do in
09:12:58 the community and invite you and your family to come
09:13:00 out and spend the day at the zoo on us.
09:13:02 Thank you very much.
09:13:07 >> Congratulations.
09:13:11 It's nice for you to be here.
09:13:13 Steve Michelini here on behalf of a variety of
09:13:16 different companies and restaurants, and would like to

09:13:19 honor you, and let's start with rigatoni's to give you
09:13:24 a nice T-shirt and go out there incognito.
09:13:28 The Hillsborough County towing association would like
09:13:30 to present you with a $50 gift certificate to your
09:13:32 choice of Carrabas.
09:13:34 Outback, Lee Roy Selmons, any one of those restaurants
09:13:38 owned by the Outback folks.
09:13:41 On behalf of Stepps towing you got the towing.
09:13:46 On behalf of Bryn Allen provide you with a gift
09:13:49 certificate package for you and your family and to
09:13:52 have your pictures taken and enjoy yourself over
09:13:54 there.
09:13:54 You got a $50 gift certificate to go along with the
09:13:58 T-shirt with rigatoni's.
09:14:00 And Bern's steak house, David Laxer would like to
09:14:04 present with you a $100 gift certificate to enjoy
09:14:07 yourself at Berns.
09:14:08 You have to schedule this a week in advance and the
09:14:11 chief said he wants to go.
09:14:15 [ Applause ]
09:14:17 >>GWEN MILLER: At this time we are going to let the
09:14:21 business owners who have been successful in getting

09:14:23 his jewelry back come up and speak.
09:14:27 >> I'll speak on behalf of Sonny, the co-owner of the
09:14:34 jewelry store at 1828 West Waters. He's very
09:14:37 grateful, as we all are, for his recovery of the
09:14:39 inventory of the jewelry store. He can maintain his
09:14:41 business because of it, because of Chace's hard work,
09:14:44 and we are all very impressed with what Chase did, and
09:14:48 very grateful and this is on behalf of him.
09:14:51 Great job.
09:14:52 [ Applause ]
09:14:53 >> This is quite an honor.
09:15:01 You go to work day in, day out, you never see the
09:15:03 fruits of your labor, a lot of times.
09:15:04 I know like in this case, for example, this is ongoing
09:15:07 since I believe mid April when this occurred, and I
09:15:10 want to thank the chief and his staff, for the support
09:15:13 they provide us on a daily basis, or in my case a
09:15:15 nightly basis, and you can tell by my lack of a tan at
09:15:19 this point.
09:15:23 But Sonny, I'm glad I could help you out.
09:15:27 All these things that go on its just another report or
09:15:30 just another something.

09:15:31 But when these things occur.
09:15:34 It really means a lot.
09:15:35 So thank you.
09:15:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby?
09:16:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Good morning, members of Tampa City
09:16:04 Council.
09:16:05 Regarding the approval of the agenda, you have
09:16:08 received the addendum to the agenda, and you have
09:16:12 received a memo from Chairman Scott who will be
09:16:15 arriving late today.
09:16:18 There are two items, one item 97 cannot be taken up
09:16:22 till 10:00.
09:16:23 That will be a request for continuance.
09:16:27 Item 98 cannot be heard.
09:16:29 No affidavit has been filed.
09:16:30 With regard to items being removed from the consent
09:16:34 docket for discussion by City Council, the items that
09:16:39 are being requested to be removed are items 16, 17,
09:16:44 18, 22, 24, 29, 39, and 44.
09:16:53 Item 22 is the request of council member Mulhern and
09:16:57 the remaining items are at the request of councilman
09:17:00 Scott who asked they be held till his arrival.

09:17:05 Other than that I believe there are no other changes
09:17:07 to the agenda.
09:17:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Item number 42 I will need to pull
09:17:12 because I will be recusing myself.
09:17:18 Which is the lightning.
09:17:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other?
09:17:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move the agenda, recognizing the
09:17:30 exceptions made.
09:17:31 >> Second.
09:17:32 (Motion carried).
09:17:33 >>GWEN MILLER: We now go to public comment.
09:17:36 Is there anyone in the public that would like to speak
09:17:38 to any item on the agenda not set for a public
09:17:40 hearing?
09:17:45 Is there anyone?
09:17:50 If you want to speak now, you can come up and speak.
09:17:53 Anyone that wants to speak come up now and speak.
09:17:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If you want to speak, line up.
09:18:03 This is your time.
09:18:14 >>> Good morning.
09:18:17 I'm Marcy Stephens, the amalgamated transit union 1364
09:18:25 representing bargaining unit employees of the City of

09:18:26 Tampa.
09:18:29 And I rise to speak in opposition to article 86.
09:18:36 We were here a few months ago, and our security guards
09:18:40 and custodian staff.
09:18:45 The city has done research and found that the savings
09:18:51 they thought they would save for security guards are
09:18:54 not so.
09:18:54 They said they would save a certain amount for the
09:18:57 custodians.
09:18:57 That is not so.
09:18:58 But I rise as a union officer to say that anytime
09:19:03 there's privatization we are in opposition.
09:19:08 Came to the City of Tampa as government employees here
09:19:11 to serve their community.
09:19:14 We understand the budget cut and the layoffs and
09:19:17 what's happening.
09:19:17 But to say that we have got to privatize a certain
09:19:22 section of certain individuals and do away with their
09:19:24 jobs completely and replace them with private
09:19:27 employees, the union just cannot support that.
09:19:35 It isn't saving as much as the city is saying.
09:19:38 They I understand now it's 400,000.

09:19:42 And I don't have that information.
09:19:48 In an -- for 27 employees, in parks and rec and four
09:19:54 in parking.
09:19:56 Again I'll say on behalf of the union, as a union
09:20:00 officer, we cannot support this.
09:20:04 We feel that privatization is a way to do away with
09:20:11 the bargaining unit, a way to do away with the union.
09:20:14 I'm a 34-year-old employee with the City of Tampa, 35
09:20:17 in December.
09:20:18 I was here before there was a union.
09:20:21 And things was bad.
09:20:28 And it's worse now than then.
09:20:31 To say we are going to replace employees who have
09:20:34 spent some people probably half of their lives with
09:20:36 the city, and now they came to the city because of the
09:20:40 benefit, they want to serve the community, and the
09:20:44 citizens of Tampa, and now they are told they are
09:20:47 going to be replaced, health insurance.
09:20:53 We are told that the company that is going to replace
09:20:58 and offer health insurance.
09:21:00 Some of these people have illness.
09:21:02 And you know how it is when you go from one insurance

09:21:04 to another.
09:21:04 Sometimes they are not accessible.
09:21:08 And they say they are going to pay them nine dollars
09:21:11 and something an hour.
09:21:12 But when you take out the cost of insurance they don't
09:21:14 have that.
09:21:15 So I urge you to reconsider doing away or whatever you
09:21:21 have to do to save these people's jobs.
09:21:24 They are some of the lowest paid, they get pay rate
09:21:28 15, you know, and I'm sure there's something else we
09:21:31 can do.
09:21:31 We find we can do that with the security guards and
09:21:34 I'm sure if we take a look at it we can see we don't
09:21:37 have to replace these people with private industry.
09:21:40 We are here to serve the citizens of Tampa and the
09:21:44 community.
09:21:45 And that's what we should do.
09:21:46 We should have our government employees to do this
09:21:49 work.
09:21:49 (Bell sounds).
09:21:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
09:21:53 >> Robert Tracey, Parks Department.

09:22:02 I have been with the city five years.
09:22:04 I chose to come to the City of Tampa.
09:22:07 I gave up my previous job.
09:22:09 I'm very proud of the City of Tampa.
09:22:12 But the way they are doing this is not the proper way.
09:22:16 There's other ways out there, and other means that
09:22:19 they can handle this.
09:22:21 You take men my age of 54 years old.
09:22:24 I cannot walk out there and turn around and start all
09:22:27 over.
09:22:35 Private contractor will pick up insurance, but
09:22:38 preexisting injury, this and that, not going to
09:22:40 happen.
09:22:40 It starts one thing and you are either going to go
09:22:44 without the health care or you are going to go without
09:22:46 a home.
09:22:47 So you have to take your choice.
09:22:49 And the way I feel, it's just not the right way to do
09:22:52 it.
09:22:52 I'm asking that you look this thing over very
09:22:55 carefully before you put us on the street.
09:22:58 Thank you.

09:23:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
09:23:06 >> Anthony Bryan, parking department.
09:23:07 It's really -- you know, it's one thing to do away
09:23:11 with a job but it's another to take it and give to
09:23:13 somebody else because basically that's what you are
09:23:15 doing.
09:23:15 That's what you are doing.
09:23:17 People got health issues.
09:23:19 When you go and get insurance, we got no future for
09:23:25 that.
09:23:28 If I didn't have the city behind me, what would become
09:23:30 of me?
09:23:33 People got dependents.
09:23:34 People got people in college.
09:23:36 You know, you are getting $9 and then they cut you
09:23:42 down $7 because that's the way it's going to be.
09:23:47 What are you going to do when you are 50 years old and
09:23:50 getting six, seven dollars an hour?
09:23:52 It not about what you do, right now it not.
09:23:56 It's about keeping our jobs, and for our children and
09:24:00 our health care.
09:24:01 What are we going to do?

09:24:02 Tell me, what are we supposed to do?
09:24:06 So, you know, we got people in college.
09:24:09 What are we supposed to do?
09:24:13 Thank you.
09:24:18 There's got to be another way.
09:24:20 There's always another way.
09:24:22 >> My name is Ronald Stahl.
09:24:33 I'm a security officer with the parking division.
09:24:35 And I have been with the parking division 21 years,
09:24:40 and I have dedicated my life to this city, not only
09:24:44 the City of Tampa but to the parking division.
09:24:46 I have worked the midnight shift.
09:24:48 I have been on midnight shift for 20 years.
09:24:51 And the thing is, if you start doing away with
09:24:55 people's jobs and give it to the private sector, I
09:24:59 personally have a preexisting health problem.
09:25:02 I'm a diabetic and I'm 55 years old.
09:25:11 And if we are laid off, where is that going to put me?
09:25:15 I have got a son in college, and I'm helping him
09:25:20 through college and he's in his senior year in college
09:25:22 and we are helping him to get through college.
09:25:25 And, you know, we depend on our wages.

09:25:33 I own a house here in Tampa.
09:25:34 I have got property taxes that I pay to the City of
09:25:37 Tampa.
09:25:38 And if I lose my job, how am I going to pay my house?
09:25:43 How am I going to pay my property taxes?
09:25:45 How am I going to be able to send my son through
09:25:48 college so he can finish up?
09:25:50 Because he's almost there.
09:25:52 He's going to be graduating in December.
09:25:56 So, I mean, you know, you are looking at employees,
09:26:00 not just me.
09:26:00 There's a lot of other employees that are in the same
09:26:02 boat I am, you know, with preexisting health problems,
09:26:07 depend on our medical insurance, you know.
09:26:09 And I have to go to the doctor periodically or my
09:26:13 blood sugar can get out of control and then I am going
09:26:16 to have other problems.
09:26:17 So, you know, without health insurance, what are you
09:26:22 going to do?
09:26:24 And I just think there's other ways you can do things
09:26:29 around here instead of taking people's jobs away from
09:26:32 them.

09:26:33 Especially people that's been with the city many,
09:26:35 many, many years.
09:26:38 And we are talking about some really good employees,
09:26:42 you know.
09:26:43 So if you want to check out my records, they are on
09:26:48 file.
09:26:49 You can see what kind of employee that I have been
09:26:51 over the past 21 years.
09:26:53 And you will see what kind of people you are going to
09:26:58 be letting go if they do lay these people off.
09:27:01 Okay?
09:27:01 Thank you.
09:27:04 >>> My name is Cindy -- I have been with the city now
09:27:13 five years.
09:27:15 I consider myself a very loyal employee to the city.
09:27:17 I love my job.
09:27:19 I'm custodial.
09:27:20 I have worked at the center.
09:27:24 I love my job.
09:27:26 A lot of my employees -- my co-workers, I'm sorry,
09:27:30 co-workers, are very stressed.
09:27:37 A couple of people are losing their hair over this

09:27:40 situation.
09:27:40 It's becoming a real, real, you know, pitiful thing.
09:27:44 We talk about it.
09:27:47 We don't want to eat.
09:27:48 A lot of people get very depressed, you know, worried
09:27:51 about what are we going to do?
09:27:53 A lot of people just bought homes.
09:27:56 And we are people that really want to work with the
09:27:59 city.
09:27:59 We love our jobs.
09:28:05 My husband, city employee, we have two children
09:28:08 getting ready to go to college.
09:28:09 And we talk about this all the time, all weekend long,
09:28:13 every time we get a chance, you know.
09:28:15 And my son is like, am I going to go to college?
09:28:18 What is going to happen to us?
09:28:20 You know what?
09:28:21 We just have to wait and see, you know.
09:28:24 If they can you tell us, you can't go to college.
09:28:26 This is what this child has been looking forward to
09:28:28 for a long time.
09:28:29 And what am I supposed to tell him is the plan,

09:28:33 because we are both city employees, now?
09:28:35 We don't know what to do.
09:28:37 There's no jobs out there.
09:28:38 There's not even jobs out there for the summer.
09:28:43 I can't work nine dollars an hour.
09:28:46 I have a home.
09:28:47 I have a vehicle.
09:28:47 I have to pay taxes.
09:28:49 I have to my bills, you know.
09:28:51 I have to have surgery in December and I don't know
09:28:54 where I stand right about now.
09:28:55 I don't know what to do.
09:28:57 I don't know what to tell the surgeon.
09:28:59 It's health issue for me, you know.
09:29:01 So I don't know where I stand.
09:29:02 And I'm very upset about this, you know.
09:29:06 And I don't know what to do.
09:29:07 And I'm begging you guys to please consider us and
09:29:10 think about us out here, and me, you know.
09:29:16 It's really hard, you know.
09:29:18 As I say, a lot of employees are going through a lot
09:29:23 of mental issues, depression, a lot of us are going

09:29:26 through depression.
09:29:27 So, please, if you can consider, reconsider, and, you
09:29:30 know, help us keep our jobs.
09:29:32 Thank you.
09:29:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
09:29:37 Would anyone like to request reconsideration?
09:29:44 We go to our ordinances for first reading.
09:29:49 Item number 2.
09:29:50 Anyone in the public that would like to speak on item
09:29:53 number 2?
09:29:55 Mr. Miranda, would you read number 2, please.
09:29:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
09:30:03 Reading an ordinance E-2008-25 transportation code for
09:30:09 first reading.
09:30:10 An ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida amending
09:30:11 ordinance 2008-69 by correcting a scrivener's error in
09:30:17 subsection F of section 25-72, use of funds, providing
09:30:22 for repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing
09:30:24 for severability, providing an effective date.
09:30:27 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
09:30:28 (Motion carried).
09:30:31 Item 3.

09:30:32 >>THE CLERK: Second reading of the ordinance will be
09:30:33 held July 17th at 9:30 a.m.
09:30:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone in the public like to speak on
09:30:38 item 3?
09:30:41 Mr. Dingfelder, would you read that?
09:30:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move the following ordinance for
09:30:44 first reading, an ordinance amending ordinance
09:30:48 2006-150 passed and ordained by the City Council City
09:30:52 Council City of Tampa on June 15, 2006 correcting a
09:30:55 scrivener's error by substituting the approved site
09:30:57 plan dated May 11, 2006, for the old site plan dated
09:31:02 May 4, 2006, attached to the ordinance that was
09:31:05 supplied in error, providing for severability,
09:31:08 providing an effective date.
09:31:08 (Motion carried).
09:31:10 >>THE CLERK: Second reading of the ordinance will be
09:31:12 held July 17th 9:30 a.m.
09:31:16 >>GWEN MILLER: We now go to committee reports.
09:31:18 Public safety.
09:31:20 Vice chair Charlie Miranda.
09:31:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move items 4 through 15 with the
09:31:26 exceptions of anyone withheld in this section 4

09:31:33 through 15.
09:31:33 >> Second.
09:31:34 (Motion carried).
09:31:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Parks and recreation, Linda Saul-Sena.
09:31:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think I understand the ones we
09:31:41 are leaving out.
09:31:42 I would like to move resolutions 17, 19, 21, and 23
09:31:46 and 24.
09:31:49 >>GWEN MILLER: 16, 17, 18 --
09:31:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move resolutions
09:32:00 19, 21, 23 and 24.
09:32:06 Okay, take it from the top. I would like to move 19,
09:32:10 21 and 23.
09:32:11 >> Second.
09:32:12 (Motion carried).
09:32:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Parks and rec, Charlie Miranda.
09:32:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move 25 through 29 with the
09:32:19 exception -- 39 with the exception I believe of 29.
09:32:23 Am I correct?
09:32:28 39.
09:32:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 29 and 39?
09:32:34 >>GWEN MILLER: 29 and 39.

09:32:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I can explain them both if you
09:32:37 like.
09:32:51 39 -- I'll wait till he gets here.
09:32:54 You're right.
09:32:56 (Motion carried).
09:32:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Finance Committee, Ms. Mary Mulhern.
09:33:01 >>MARY MULHERN: Move 40 through 51, I believe.
09:33:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 42 we need a separate vote.
09:33:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Hold 44.
09:33:23 >>MARY MULHERN: 44, 41, 43, and 45 through 51.
09:33:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry?
09:33:33 40, 41 -- you're holding 42 and 44, is that correct?
09:33:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Correct.
09:33:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
09:33:43 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
09:33:44 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
09:33:46 Opposed, Nay.
09:33:46 (Motion carried).
09:33:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If you want to move 42, that's fine
09:33:52 and I will recuse myself at this time.
09:33:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Go back to 42.
09:33:59 I recuse myself formally from item 42.

09:34:06 My law firm represents a party who is a party to the
09:34:11 lightning transaction tangentially and I have been
09:34:15 advised and discussed with our attorney it would be
09:34:19 appropriate for me to recuse myself.
09:34:20 I'll file this with the clerk.
09:34:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Just for the record on 42, I don't
09:34:24 know what if anything changes.
09:34:26 I don't know what credits or taxes or anything else
09:34:29 have been given to this item so I really don't know
09:34:36 42, can someone explain to me what they get?
09:34:44 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
09:34:46 All we are really doing is they are not getting
09:34:48 anything different than they had before.
09:34:49 What we are doing is approving the new transfer
09:34:52 ownership, that this is -- we were involved because we
09:34:56 have leases and other arrangements.
09:34:58 None of that is changing.
09:35:00 It's simply transferring to new ownership.
09:35:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Do they have tax credits, so forth
09:35:09 and so on?
09:35:10 >>SAL TERRITO: If they do this is not involving that
09:35:12 issue.

09:35:13 I don't know if they do or not.
09:35:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Satisfied with that?
09:35:17 Okay.
09:35:20 Did you move 42?
09:35:22 >>MARY MULHERN: I move item 42.
09:35:23 >> Second.
09:35:24 (Motion carried).
09:35:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Nay.
09:35:30 Because I don't know all of it.
09:35:31 Muscle
09:35:33 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder
09:35:36 abstaining.
09:35:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do you have any idea what time Rev.
09:35:40 Scott is coming to the meeting?
09:35:41 I just want to recognize -- between 10:30 and 11.
09:35:48 Okay.
09:35:48 I want to recognize that Chip fletcher is in the
09:35:50 audience and some of us have had an opportunity to
09:35:52 chat with him and work with him.
09:35:55 So Mr. Selby, between 10:30 and 11.
09:36:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Building and zoning.
09:36:04 Mr. Caetano.

09:36:05 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Move items 52 through 66.
09:36:09 >> Second.
09:36:10 (Motion carried)
09:36:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Transportation.
09:36:13 Mr. John Dingfelder.
09:36:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have to catch up with you here.
09:36:21 I move items 67, through 73.
09:36:28 >> Second?
09:36:28 >> Second.
09:36:30 >> Motion and second.
09:36:30 (Motion carried)
09:36:34 Public hearings?
09:36:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Oh, you know what?
09:36:42 That's all right.
09:36:43 Well, I need to reconsider our vote.
09:36:45 Because there's one here that I meant to pull this
09:36:46 morning and I apologize.
09:36:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Which one?
09:36:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I wanted to pull item 70 from my
09:36:53 own committee.
09:36:54 I just didn't circle it because there were so many
09:36:56 others being pulled.

09:36:57 If I could have a reconsider on that vote and pull it
09:37:00 out.
09:37:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
09:37:02 (Motion carried).
09:37:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Then I'll move items 67 through 73
09:37:08 excluding item 70 and we'll talk about that later.
09:37:11 >> Second.
09:37:12 (Motion carried).
09:37:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I apologize.
09:37:17 And I move items 74 through 80 setting public
09:37:20 hearings.
09:37:20 >> Second.
09:37:21 (Motion carried).
09:37:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Madam Chair, just want to confirm I
09:37:28 believe item 21.
09:37:30 Was that moved by the Boys and Girls Clubs?
09:37:35 >>GWEN MILLER: It was moved, yes.
09:37:36 It passed.
09:37:38 We now go to staff reports.
09:37:39 Unfinished business.
09:37:40 Item number 81.
09:37:49 >>CINDY MILLER: Director of growth management,

09:37:51 development services.
09:37:52 Item 81 is the presentation by applicants for two
09:37:58 remaining affordable housing advisory committee
09:38:02 members.
09:38:06 To be appointed before June 30.
09:38:08 The positions remain to be appointed by council.
09:38:13 A representative for the committee that represents the
09:38:15 Planning Commission, actually a commissioner on the
09:38:18 Planning Commission.
09:38:19 And you have an applicant Vivian Kitchen who has
09:38:25 applied for that position.
09:38:26 Then for the other position, it would be a
09:38:30 representative of employers within the City of Tampa.
09:38:35 Also keep in mind that in these cases the person must
09:38:40 be a resident of Tampa as well.
09:38:42 All three parties are residents of Tampa.
09:38:43 And with that I will sit down and Ms. Foxx-Knowles
09:38:55 will distribute them.
09:38:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have received some questions from
09:39:06 people that were late finding out about this process
09:39:08 and I thought were qualified individuals.
09:39:12 Do you know if the mayor finished?

09:39:17 >>CINDY MILLER: Except for one position and that is a
09:39:20 position who represents labor involved in the
09:39:22 construction of affordable housing.
09:39:24 We have advertised the position.
09:39:25 We have made contacts.
09:39:26 We are still awaiting an applicant.
09:39:31 That is the only position awaiting approval by the
09:39:34 mayor.
09:39:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:39:39 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: City clerk.
09:39:40 Council, you have Ms. Kitchen, do you want to -- she's
09:39:48 the only applicant representing Planning Commission.
09:39:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move Ms. Kitchen.
09:39:53 >> Second.
09:39:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
09:39:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We all know she does a great job on
09:39:59 this committee.
09:40:02 (Motion carried).
09:40:03 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: We have three applicants
09:40:05 representing employers within the city.
09:40:06 They are Mr. Paul Ayers, Mr. Thomas Clark, Castellano,
09:40:15 and Mr. James Andrew Horvick.

09:40:20 If you would like to hear from them now.
09:40:22 Mr. Paul Ayers.
09:40:27 >>> Paul Ayers, 601 north Ashley drive, suite 1100 in
09:40:34 downtown Tampa, 33602.
09:40:36 I work for the Tampa Downtown Partnership.
09:40:39 Tampa Downtown Partnership is a 22-year-old
09:40:41 organization that has represented the interest of
09:40:45 downtown workers and employees since its creation and
09:40:49 advocates for the betterment of downtown Tampa.
09:40:51 I personally have been there for nearly nine years.
09:40:54 My role in downtown Tampa working for the for the
09:40:57 private-public sector stretches back to 1994.
09:41:00 I was one of the first employees of the Florida
09:41:02 Aquarium.
09:41:02 I worked in the private sector along with Hyatt hotels
09:41:06 and resorts.
09:41:07 I'm a certified economic development professional for
09:41:11 the national development council, certified in the
09:41:14 program that takes you through the process, and what
09:41:16 it takes to make a deal happen.
09:41:18 On the developer's side as well as using different
09:41:20 forms of federal, county and local financing to make

09:41:24 sure that the deals meet the goals which include
09:41:27 affordable housing.
09:41:29 I serve on various groups, committees, as well as
09:41:35 recently left the industrial arts board, also serving
09:41:40 as on the partnership of the uptown council, a newly
09:41:43 formed organization in downtown.
09:41:46 I also hold a meeting with commercial real estate
09:41:49 brokers to make sure we are doing all we can to bring
09:41:51 employees into the downtown marketplace.
09:41:54 As you know, downtown Tampa has had over 2,000 units
09:41:57 recently opened for residential development, none of
09:42:03 them at this point meets the criteria of affordable
09:42:05 housing. The partnership and me personally are
09:42:08 excited seeing the opportunity to develop in our urban
09:42:08 core bringing a more diverse group into the downtown
09:42:12 area.
09:42:13 Thank you.
09:42:13 >> Thank you.
09:42:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Ayers is certainly well
09:42:21 qualified by his speech this morning and the resume
09:42:23 that I read last night but I would like to ask a
09:42:26 couple of questions.

09:42:27 Earlier it was mentioned, I think, Ms. Miller said
09:42:30 that live in the City of Tampa S.that a prerequisite?
09:42:39 Because 33596, that's Valrico.
09:42:44 And that's not in the City of Tampa.
09:42:45 >>> That's correct.
09:42:47 I'm a resident of Hillsborough County.
09:42:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Can we address that?
09:42:56 >>CINDY MILLER: Director of growth management
09:42:59 services.
09:42:59 The ordinance you did pass does require city
09:43:02 residence.
09:43:08 My apologies.
09:43:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand that but when you said
09:43:12 city, I remember last night when you looked at the zip
09:43:15 number I checked it and it was Valrico.
09:43:18 And I certainly appreciate and understand this man's
09:43:21 position.
09:43:22 He's done a marvelous job and he's very, very, very
09:43:25 well qualified.
09:43:27 >>SAL TERRITO: Let me find out for you.
09:43:28 I didn't draw up this particular resolution.
09:43:30 Let me find out from the person who did if that's a

09:43:33 statutory requirement or something that the City
09:43:35 Council did irrespective of what the statute allows.
09:43:38 I'll find out for you.
09:43:43 If you want to change the ordinance -- I didn't know
09:43:45 if the ordinance was drawn up to mirror the statute or
09:43:47 if it's something that you decided that you wanted to
09:43:49 do over and above that requirement.
09:43:51 I don't know the answer to that.
09:43:53 >> Does that make any difference?
09:43:54 >>> It makes a difference if you want me to change the
09:43:56 ordinance.
09:43:57 Obviously if the ordinance is written the way it is
09:44:00 you can't do it now.
09:44:01 And it has to be done by the 30th of this month
09:44:04 under the statute so that kind of a dresses that
09:44:06 issue.
09:44:07 >> For future reference you can look into it.
09:44:09 >>> Yes, I will.
09:44:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In the future, when we advertise
09:44:14 the positions, if people don't meet the specific
09:44:18 requirements, please don't bring us their names,
09:44:20 because they take time to come down here, and it would

09:44:23 be better if they were pre-screened, and only people
09:44:27 who are specifically qualified can be considered.
09:44:32 Thank you.
09:44:34 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: The next individual is Mr.
09:44:36 Thomas Castellano.
09:44:43 I don't see him.
09:44:44 Mr. James Andrew Horvick.
09:45:04 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry, I have a question.
09:45:05 I'm not sure that's correct what we just decided,
09:45:08 because it doesn't say that in the paperwork we have.
09:45:13 It says one of the qualifications that one citizen
09:45:20 reside within the City of Tampa.
09:45:21 So if that's a qualification in itself -- I thought
09:45:24 that being a resident was one of the qualifications
09:45:28 for some of these positions, but it wasn't a
09:45:30 requirement for the employer category.
09:45:33 Are we sure that's correct?
09:45:35 Because I know that's the way when we voted on it the
09:45:40 last time.
09:45:45 >>> Our legal representative is going to double check
09:45:48 the exact wording in the ordinance so that you can
09:45:50 address that prior to the vote.

09:45:51 My recollection is that the ordinance as is consistent
09:45:55 with all of the commissions and boards that we have
09:45:57 within other portions of the city.
09:46:01 City residency has been required, and that's what was
09:46:04 included in the ordinance.
09:46:07 The ordinance also, when it came to representing
09:46:09 employers, it was representing employers within the
09:46:11 City of Tampa, is my recollection.
09:46:14 >>MARY MULHERN: The reason that I am questioning this
09:46:17 is I have a memo from the clerk that lists the
09:46:21 qualifications, and one qualification, it's one
09:46:26 citizen who resides within the City of Tampa, that
09:46:29 that person --
09:46:31 >> That person has already been appointed. That
09:46:32 person was appointed about two or three weeks ago by
09:46:34 council.
09:46:45 >> Thank you for the opportunity.
09:46:48 My name is James Horvick, I'm a vice-president with
09:46:54 Raymond James. As you may know, their international
09:46:55 headquarters are St. Petersburg but they have offices
09:46:57 throughout Tampa including 100 North Tampa Street.
09:46:59 I'm a resident of Tampa, and for the past six years I

09:47:03 have raised equity to invest in affordable housing
09:47:06 across the nation.
09:47:08 I have contributed about 225 million dollars to
09:47:11 renovate, to construct, what, 2500 homes.
09:47:16 My experience is actually working with Native American
09:47:18 tribes which might not seem relevant to an urban
09:47:20 setting.
09:47:21 However, I think there are a lot of parallel that is
09:47:23 can be very helpful for the committee.
09:47:25 In my experience, with Native Americans, who focus on
09:47:29 community based housing and not just affordable rent.
09:47:31 We focus on supportive services, focus on access to
09:47:35 transportation, we focus on job training and financial
09:47:38 literacy, and those are things that I think the
09:47:41 committee would be well served.
09:47:46 The most robust financing tool for affordable housing
09:47:51 nationwide.
09:47:52 Each year about 6 or 7 billion are invested in this
09:47:57 program, so consideration would certainly improve the
09:48:01 committee's effectiveness.
09:48:03 My goal for the committee would be to approach housing
09:48:06 not as just affordable rent but affordable housing

09:48:10 which includes many things, but also energy
09:48:12 efficiency.
09:48:13 I chair Raymond James green committee which is
09:48:17 dedicated to finding ways to improve the affordability
09:48:21 of housing for low income families.
09:48:25 With my finance experience and expertise, my
09:48:28 commitment to community based housing and my
09:48:32 experience with the -- I think I would be an asset to
09:48:36 the committee.
09:48:37 I thank you for your consideration.
09:48:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Can I ask another legal question?
09:48:49 I don't know how these parameters are made up and I
09:48:53 have heard some good candidates, very well qualified,
09:48:56 extremely well.
09:48:57 This gentleman, I guess, lives close to Plant High
09:49:01 School.
09:49:03 Does he meet the criteria under the representing
09:49:07 employees within the city?
09:49:10 >>SAL TERRITO: Again, I was going to answer the
09:49:16 earlier question.
09:49:17 There is a residency requirement.
09:49:18 To answer your question, one person is a citizen

09:49:22 irrespective of his or her fitting into one of other
09:49:26 categories.
09:49:27 We have broken it down by categories.
09:49:29 There is an exception in the ordinance dealing with
09:49:31 how you choose people, but it doesn't go to
09:49:33 citizenship.
09:49:34 If you can't find someone that meets one of the other
09:49:38 criteria, categories, then you can find someone else
09:49:41 to fit that standard but residency in the City of
09:49:43 Tampa is required in all of those sections.
09:49:45 I am not exactly sure -- I don't know the answer
09:49:49 because I haven't looked at these gentlemen's resumes
09:49:51 to see if he fits into one of these categories.
09:49:55 >>CINDY MILLER: Director growth management services.
09:49:59 When it comes to the decision making as to whether
09:50:02 someone represents employers of Tampa, as a member of
09:50:05 the administration I did not think it was appropriate
09:50:07 for me to zap the application from that standpoint.
09:50:10 I do believe that is really up to council's decision,
09:50:13 listening to the applicant, reading their
09:50:15 applications.
09:50:16 So I believe I leave it up to council but I thought it

09:50:21 was council's decision as to how they evaluate each
09:50:23 person.
09:50:24 Therefore I did not eliminate someone from
09:50:26 consideration.
09:50:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:50:35 >> Want to talk about Raymond James here.
09:50:38 >>> Our Raymond James headquarters are in
09:50:42 St. Petersburg.
09:50:42 Raymond James has offices throughout Tampa, city-wide,
09:50:46 North Tampa Street.
09:50:47 So although our headquarters are in another city,
09:50:50 another county, Raymond James is an employer within
09:50:53 the City of Tampa.
09:50:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm certainly not -- I'm not a
09:51:00 lawyer.
09:51:01 I don't know.
09:51:02 But when I work with -- and I lived in Tampa, Florida,
09:51:10 I couldn't count myself in New York even though I
09:51:14 lived in Tampa and worked for the same company.
09:51:16 That's why I am asking these questions.
09:51:18 It's nothing personal.
09:51:19 I know the location.

09:51:20 I think it close to Plant High School.
09:51:22 Because Dale Mabry is the 3800 block, I am assuming
09:51:25 you are just east of Dale Mabry.
09:51:27 >>> Correct.
09:51:27 >> And I am going through these things so later on,
09:51:31 tomorrow or next month or six months from now, we
09:51:34 don't have something happen to us that's embarrassing
09:51:37 not only to us but to you.
09:51:39 That's what I am trying to resolve.
09:51:41 >>> Okay.
09:51:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I was just going to say that my
09:51:45 broker is a Raymond James broker and his office is on
09:51:48 Harbor Island so I know that Raymond James is here in
09:51:50 Tampa.
09:51:51 The other thing that I just want to say about this
09:51:53 gentleman is I think it's really a marvelous -- that
09:52:00 someone volunteers and somebody with such specific and
09:52:03 large-scale affordable income experience would be
09:52:07 willing to volunteer on this board, because I think
09:52:12 that we need to grow what we make available to our
09:52:15 citizens in terms of affordable housing.
09:52:17 And you appear to have had very specific hands-on

09:52:22 experience in this area with a national perspective
09:52:28 which could only help our program.
09:52:30 I think it's pretty exciting.
09:52:34 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry.
09:52:36 It's too bad we have all these people volunteering and
09:52:38 we are putting you through this when we could have
09:52:42 just handled this before.
09:52:44 But is your office where you work here in Tampa?
09:52:50 >>> The times that I am not on the road --
09:52:59 >> Do you have employees working with you who work in
09:53:02 Tampa?
09:53:02 >>> No.
09:53:05 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
09:53:10 >>CINDY MILLER: If I could perhaps give you some
09:53:13 assurance.
09:53:15 We have such fabulous applicants that applied for
09:53:19 these positions.
09:53:20 Please do keep in mind, the first runner-up kind of
09:53:26 situation.
09:53:26 In the event any of our currently appointed members
09:53:29 are not able to serve their term, we are keeping all
09:53:31 of the applications on file so that if for any reason

09:53:35 someone is not able to continue in their role, we will
09:53:37 have a number of these excellent applicants that would
09:53:41 be willing to serve in the future.
09:53:56 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: I don't see Mr. Castellano.
09:54:02 If you could mark your ballots.
09:54:19 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to go to number 82.
09:54:30 Department of public works.
09:54:31 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
09:54:33 This item deals with the downtown area.
09:54:35 City Council had asked public works department and the
09:54:37 legal department to meet with the group called the
09:54:41 Tampa Bay publishers group who indicated at a previous
09:54:43 meeting they were interested in working with the city
09:54:45 to clean up the newspaper racks.
09:54:49 That was a productive meeting.
09:54:50 This group indicated they would like to supply the
09:54:52 modular boxes.
09:54:54 Public works is continuing to look into that and
09:54:56 figure out the logistics of where and how, and
09:55:03 probably bring back to you an ordinance to effectuate
09:55:05 the changes.
09:55:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

09:55:07 I can't tell you how pleased I am with this.
09:55:09 Years ago I tried to accomplish this, and there were
09:55:14 all kinds of first amendment issues and I thought we
09:55:16 would never see the -- at the instigation of the
09:55:25 publishers and I am very grateful to them and I
09:55:27 encourage the city to work with them in a positive way
09:55:30 as much as we can.
09:55:31 It's so much more elegant a situation, and people
09:55:35 don't trip over them.
09:55:36 Thanks.
09:55:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: As you well know, this was brought
09:55:41 up some years ago, and the publishers themselves got
09:55:45 together with the administration six, seven years ago,
09:55:48 and worked out the agreement where the new boxes that
09:55:51 are either dark tan or light brown or whatever you
09:55:56 want to call them certainly changed the landscape.
09:55:58 They used to be like kaleidoscope of colors and very
09:56:03 confusing.
09:56:04 Now they are all the same height, all the same
09:56:06 location, very well presentable, and I think it makes
09:56:10 a visual difference in the City of Tampa.
09:56:13 If this is to be expanded I'm certainly for it.

09:56:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Shirley Foxx-Knowles.
09:56:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Are you going to keep us posted on
09:56:25 this periodically?
09:56:26 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Council, we need to wait for
09:56:32 two members, Scott and Caetano, because no one
09:56:35 received at least four votes.
09:56:40 >>GWEN MILLER: We go to item number 3.
09:56:45 83.
09:56:46 >> Move a resolution for second reading, rules of
09:56:50 procedure, rule 3-B-2 governing order of business by
09:56:53 conduct of business at the meetings of City Council of
09:56:57 the City of Tampa providing an effective date.
09:57:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Which one did you say we have to
09:57:05 wait on?
09:57:07 >>GWEN MILLER: To vote again.
09:57:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: For 83?
09:57:12 >>GWEN MILLER: No, 82.
09:57:13 Voting for the affordable housing.
09:57:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Oh, on affordable housing.
09:57:20 I thought you were referring to 83 that we had to
09:57:22 wait.
09:57:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Affordable housing 82.

09:57:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 83, Mr. Shelby, did we modify this
09:57:30 last week?
09:57:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't believe so, no.
09:57:33 The only modification was rule 5 because that was
09:57:38 deleted from --
09:57:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Madam clerk, I recall Ms. Miller
09:57:43 and I voted no.
09:57:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's correct.
09:57:47 That's how I remember that.
09:57:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We got a vote on the floor right
09:57:51 now.
09:57:53 I don't know who made the motion.
09:57:57 >> I might have.
09:57:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I make a substitute motion we hold
09:58:00 till a full counsel or as full as we can get today.
09:58:02 >> Second.
09:58:03 (Motion carried).
09:58:04 >>GWEN MILLER: We go to item number 84.
09:58:08 Move the resolution.
09:58:09 >> So moved.
09:58:10 >> Second.
09:58:11 (Motion carried).

09:58:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 85.
09:58:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The charter amendment?
09:58:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't know if there's going to be a
09:58:23 presentation.
09:58:24 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
09:58:25 Mr. Smith and -- one of us have met with you
09:58:31 individually and it prepared for first reading if
09:58:33 that's the will of council.
09:58:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
09:58:35 Question, Mr. Miranda?
09:58:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have lost or misplaced.
09:58:40 Oh, here it is.
09:58:41 There is some language on differences, that item
09:58:46 number 85 from the proposed amendment presentation to
09:58:50 the taxpayers, and to the citizens of the city, when
09:58:54 you read the section 1 of the staff, it's kind of
09:59:01 vague in one area.
09:59:02 When you talk about areas that mean equivalent to or
09:59:09 something to relative salary, comparable was the word
09:59:13 that was used.
09:59:15 Comparable means similar, kind, equal, equivalent, as
09:59:19 good as, or like.

09:59:23 When you look at those things and you put it in, and
09:59:26 the presentation, the charter be amended to allow City
09:59:30 Council to employ rather than appoint an attorney, and
09:59:36 qualifications and salary in accordance with
09:59:39 comparable city attorneys.
09:59:42 What city attorney?
09:59:43 Are we talking about assistant city attorney?
09:59:46 Part time city attorneys?
09:59:47 Or the city attorney?
09:59:51 There's a big difference in salary between one and the
09:59:58 other and I'm just trying to air that out.
10:00:00 Can anyone answer that?
10:00:01 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
10:00:05 I can't tell you exactly who that was, it was supposed
10:00:08 to be comparable city attorneys, and that would be the
10:00:13 discussion when you would actually be setting that.
10:00:17 If you did not like that the term that's certainly
10:00:21 something you can change between first and second
10:00:23 reading.
10:00:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I haven't given up the floor yet.
10:00:26 To me I don't want to present something to the public
10:00:28 and then it's something else and I don't feel

10:00:30 comfortable and the word comparable.
10:00:32 If you say it's going to be compared to those
10:00:34 attorneys who have the same type -- and I'm talking
10:00:37 about a position, not an individual on both sides of
10:00:39 the aisle.
10:00:41 I want to be as forward as I can with this.
10:00:43 And if you say that, then are we looking at a full
10:00:48 time city attorney?
10:00:49 It doesn't say anything about part time anymore.
10:00:51 It used to be equivalent to part time assistant city
10:00:54 attorney.
10:00:55 So we are getting here in a language that when you
10:00:57 present it to the public, certainly reads good, but
10:00:59 what's behind the reading of that?
10:01:04 I'm not an attorney, but I look at these things, and I
10:01:07 create doubts that the public is not being told for
10:01:10 the right, not that we mean in any way to shake the
10:01:13 foundation of government here, but what I'm saying is
10:01:15 that at least explain to the public who this is
10:01:21 comparable to.
10:01:32 I have to be the devil's advocates today because I
10:01:36 asked three pointed questions and I usually don't do

10:01:38 that.
10:01:44 >> The direction we were providing in this was to
10:01:46 establish City Council's ability to have direct
10:01:48 control to hire and fire.
10:01:52 I don't think that -- and nothing in the charter
10:02:00 speaks to salaries.
10:02:01 So I don't see that we necessarily need to clarify in
10:02:04 this context.
10:02:05 I think that it would be up to council in the context
10:02:09 of our role of setting budget where we would determine
10:02:13 what the appropriate salary would be.
10:02:16 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
10:02:18 If I may clarify.
10:02:19 I'm looking at the changes.
10:02:20 The word assistant was not taken out of the language
10:02:22 so it still says for comparable assistant city
10:02:27 attorneys, and the actual change we are requesting.
10:02:30 That might not have been picked up in the summary but
10:02:33 I am looking at the actual red line, blue line
10:02:36 changes, and the word assistant was left in there.
10:02:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand that.
10:02:39 >>MARY MULHERN: I was going to point out.

10:02:46 I think the changes we made, we didn't change that
10:02:48 part of the language.
10:02:49 So it still says the same as the existing charter.
10:02:53 And it does --
10:02:58 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
10:03:00 It says comparable assistant city attorney.
10:03:02 But I think councilman Miranda's issue is doesn't
10:03:07 address full time or part time.
10:03:09 I think he's indicating there's other variables.
10:03:11 And it may be that it depends on what council does.
10:03:14 You may have your City Council attorney part time and
10:03:20 you may change that to be full time.
10:03:22 So I think the issue in the charter was we kept that
10:03:25 open because that's something that we think council
10:03:29 ought to decide, and at the same time you make
10:03:31 whatever appropriate adjustments are open to
10:03:34 compensation so just so you know the thought process.
10:03:37 It may not be sufficient but that was the thought
10:03:39 process.
10:03:39 >>MARY MULHERN: I think the change which should give
10:03:42 you more leeway, if that's your concern, is that City
10:03:45 Council will be setting the salary.

10:03:52 The attorney will be City Council attorney, so we will
10:03:54 be determining if it's full time or part time, and
10:03:57 we'll be determine the salary comparable to what --
10:04:04 >> Not throwing Marty under the bus but you may want
10:04:07 to excrete create a job description which makes it
10:04:10 clear for you and for him exactly what his
10:04:12 expectations are and I think they probably include
10:04:14 issues of hours, et cetera, and that helps to you your
10:04:18 evaluation and set your compensation.
10:04:20 Thank you.
10:04:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I yield to Mr. Dingfelder.
10:04:26 He has not spoken on this part.
10:04:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Rebecca?
10:04:32 We spoke on the phone.
10:04:34 Just to go over some of the details.
10:04:36 And there are three or four things that we talked
10:04:41 about.
10:04:42 I don't have them with me today.
10:04:43 I don't know of any changes that incorporated
10:04:47 compensation, and if not, I need you to refresh my
10:04:51 recollection of what we talked about.
10:04:52 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.

10:04:54 One of them that we talked about was you were
10:04:57 interested in the use of the word "generally" when it
10:05:01 came to the term of compensation.
10:05:02 And that was, if you look on your lines, let me see
10:05:07 where this is.
10:05:09 We have got so many colors on here it's almost
10:05:13 dizzying.
10:05:14 It deals with the compensation issue. what line was
10:05:18 that?
10:05:19 >> It's set by City Council and I think I said
10:05:26 generally.
10:05:27 >>> Generally in accordance, right.
10:05:29 You had discussed the possibility of insertion of the
10:05:30 word generally.
10:05:32 And whether that would add or detract from it, meaning
10:05:38 it gives you a little more flexibility in the process.
10:05:41 I think you have a fair amount of flexibility as it is
10:05:43 because you are going to be determining the job
10:05:45 description as well.
10:05:46 >> I think the reason I said generally there might be
10:05:50 hand in hand with what you are saying, Charlie.
10:05:52 Right now Marty is a full-time City Council attorney.

10:05:55 In the future, some future council says, you know, we
10:05:57 need to just make this a part-time job, then if we
10:06:01 have the word generally in there, if they don't have
10:06:04 any part-time people upstairs, then we don't have the
10:06:07 ability to find a comparable assistant city attorney
10:06:11 upstairs to do that.
10:06:12 I think that's what I was trying to do was give future
10:06:15 City Council a little more latitude, not to I am
10:06:18 Florida State the salary by any means but just to
10:06:22 create -- adjust depending on the job description.
10:06:27 It's a friendly suggest, not a deal breaker for me.
10:06:29 What else did we talk about?
10:06:31 >> One thing I should say, just to make sure, we do
10:06:34 have some part time assistant city attorneys but none
10:06:37 in res dense.
10:06:40 They all work in their own offices and have a special
10:06:43 arrangement.
10:06:45 I think we did talk about relating the City Council
10:06:47 business.
10:06:48 But I think you understood why that qualification was
10:06:51 there.
10:06:51 I think the only one I recall that really was an issue

10:06:55 remaining was whether that was sufficiently --
10:07:01 >>> I don't know if you feel that hurts or helps, the
10:07:03 pointed you were trying to make, you know.
10:07:06 But it's definitely the one I'm reading left in the
10:07:10 language assistant city attorney.
10:07:11 There's in a way we are trying to say we are going to
10:07:15 help Mr. Shelby's position, the same thing as Mr.
10:07:19 Smith's position.
10:07:25 >> I understand this item.
10:07:26 However, what the public is going to vote on, yes or
10:07:29 no, is the one, two, three, four, five, six, seven
10:07:33 sentence that is make up that paragraph.
10:07:35 And the public doesn't understand or will never
10:07:37 understand, because it's not written like we did
10:07:40 discuss it up here.
10:07:41 What I'm saying is, generally, or comparably or
10:07:45 whatever word we want to use, will not be the
10:07:51 information that the public needs.
10:07:52 And I'm not going to into protectionism or anything
10:07:56 like that but what I am trying to say is, I think we
10:07:59 should spell it out a little better and it can be done
10:08:01 today, we are changing a couple of words, and I'm not

10:08:03 the one that's going to do the changes because I am
10:08:07 not a writer but when you compare to the a system --
10:08:11 to assistant city attorneys, which assistant city
10:08:13 attorney?
10:08:15 There's some that make 70,000 full time.
10:08:18 There's some that make more than 70,000.
10:08:20 So what I am saying is, I don't want to get into
10:08:23 specific amounts, but I want to create a scale that's
10:08:28 balanced.
10:08:28 I don't want to create a school that fits up and down,
10:08:32 either they are up and we are down or they are up and
10:08:34 we are down.
10:08:35 I want to create a level field so we all understand
10:08:40 what's going on.
10:08:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Miranda, I really appreciate
10:08:44 what you're saying, but I think that what's before us
10:08:47 puts the power to make these determinations in the
10:08:50 hands of council.
10:08:52 It talks to assistant city attorney.
10:08:55 And I think the public will be comfortable with that.
10:08:57 And I think council will be judicious in what we do.
10:09:00 Based on that, I would like to go ahead and bring this

10:09:03 up when Mr. Scott arrives at our meeting.
10:09:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No problem.
10:09:08 >>GWEN MILLER: We will hold item number 85.
10:09:13 Number 86.
10:09:18 We are not supposed to hold number 8.
10:09:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think Mr. Scott would appreciate
10:09:24 being here for number 86.
10:09:26 That would be my motion.
10:09:27 I think that's a courtesy.
10:09:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'll second the motion to hold 86
10:09:32 until Mr. Scott arrives.
10:09:34 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:09:35 (Motion carried).
10:09:37 We go to 87.
10:09:39 >> We are going to be real busy when he gets here.
10:09:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I hope he gets here.
10:09:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 87.
10:09:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move the resolution.
10:09:52 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a speaker.
10:09:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: They are bringing more information
10:09:55 for us.
10:09:56 >>>

10:10:01 At council's direction, unfortunately, we couldn't get
10:10:15 because doing the recycling collection.
10:10:23 And it's interesting to know most of the cities are
10:10:28 not getting any at all because the contractor is
10:10:30 picking up and then they might share jurisdiction, and
10:10:39 so there's not any real comparison.
10:10:42 But we see anywhere from 20 to 18 depending on what
10:10:49 materials they are collecting.
10:10:50 But I have -- I can give you one methodology we use to
10:10:56 compare, and a price we are getting now, and we got
10:11:05 some information from other jurisdictions, anywhere
10:11:13 from 60 to 90%.
10:11:18 But we take a conservative approach.
10:11:23 It will go up about 25%.
10:11:25 So it's about 15,000.
10:11:30 Even though we are collecting around, you know -- and
10:11:37 we are hoping that out of this year, then we know
10:11:40 exactly what the makeup of the collection, the tonnage
10:11:45 of what we are collecting, so we will be in a position
10:11:47 to negotiate for contract next year
10:11:54 Unfortunately I couldn't get a real comparison.
10:11:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Vijay, we appreciate you

10:12:00 trying.
10:12:00 So right now, I'm not sure you had discussion with
10:12:04 then, him or her, excuse me, but they aren't doing
10:12:11 this type of arrangement anywhere else around?
10:12:14 >>> Not this type of arrangement.
10:12:18 And they bring in stuff from all over the state, and
10:12:22 they are processing there.
10:12:23 >> what does it cost to us pick up recycling?
10:12:29 >>> Well, overall, we are spending almost $4 million
10:12:36 recycling.
10:12:37 >> And we make 400,000.
10:12:41 But the good news is, I guess, we are recycling, which
10:12:44 is good for the for the environment, and it reduces
10:12:46 our waste extreme to the plant --
10:12:49 >>> And that doesn't include of course the cost in our
10:12:55 department, and we are to pay about $56.
10:13:01 So there's some cost there.
10:13:04 >> I look forward to the day when it's a real money
10:13:07 maker.
10:13:08 >>> We all are.
10:13:11 Thank you.
10:13:11 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to move the resolution.

10:13:13 >> So moved.
10:13:14 >> Second.
10:13:14 (Motion carried).
10:13:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 88, 89 we need to open.
10:13:25 (Motion carried).
10:13:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone in the public like to
10:13:27 speak on item 88?
10:13:29 >> Move to close.
10:13:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question.
10:13:33 We have discussed redoing this to make the ability of
10:13:39 the citizen to identify a grand tree simpler.
10:13:41 I know that's not what's before us.
10:13:44 But we have been discussing this for quite some time.
10:13:47 And I wonder, are we there yet?
10:13:49 When will we be there?
10:13:51 >>CINDY MILLER: Director growth management development
10:13:55 services.
10:13:56 Councilwoman, I believe we are there from a
10:13:58 departmental standpoint, parks and recreation, growth
10:14:02 management development services, joint effort.
10:14:06 I believe that we still would need to talk with
10:14:09 stakeholders, circulate and orthopedics, but I believe

10:14:13 we could have something back before you late summer.
10:14:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That would be excellent.
10:14:19 Thank you.
10:14:21 >> We need to close.
10:14:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
10:14:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:14:25 (Motion carried).
10:14:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you read that, please?
10:14:28 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance being presented for
10:14:30 second reading, an orthopedics of the City of Tampa
10:14:33 amending City of Tampa code of ordinances chapter 13,
10:14:36 landscaping, tree removal and site clearing, article
10:14:39 I, administrative provisions, section 13-4, article
10:14:43 III, technical provisions, section 13-162, making
10:14:48 comprehensive revisions to the code provisions
10:14:54 relative to definitions and landscape and tree
10:14:58 planting standards regarding irrigation, providing for
10:15:01 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
10:15:03 effective date.
10:15:05 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
10:15:08 Vote and record.
10:15:17 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Scott

10:15:18 being absent at vote.
10:15:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone in the public that would like to
10:15:22 speak on item 89?
10:15:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
10:15:27 >> Second.
10:15:27 (Motion carried).
10:15:28 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance presented for
10:15:34 second reading, an ordinance of the city of Tampa,
10:15:36 Florida making revisions to chapter 17.5, planning and
10:15:40 Land Development Code of the City of Tampa code of
10:15:43 ordinances, creating article VII the City of Tampa
10:15:46 sustainability ordinance, providing for repeal of all
10:15:49 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
10:15:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
10:15:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just wanted to give a shout out
10:15:57 to Cindy Miller and Thom Snelling and any other staff
10:16:01 who worked on these two ordinances.
10:16:03 These are green ordinances, and it's a good start.
10:16:07 It's just a start.
10:16:09 But it moves our city to being greener, to being
10:16:13 healthier, to contributing to better environment for
10:16:16 our city and for our planet.

10:16:18 So thank you to staff for working with us, and,
10:16:23 council, every time we pass an ordinance, let's keep
10:16:25 our antenna up to make it as green as possible.
10:16:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I echo what you said, Mr.
10:16:33 Dingfelder.
10:16:33 And last Thursday, we weren't able to attend because
10:16:37 we were at City Council but there was a workshop on
10:16:39 the upfront work done by the Parks Department on the
10:16:42 tree canopy study, and the idea is that that tree
10:16:46 canopy study has been done.
10:16:47 They had over 100 people attend a workshop.
10:16:51 And it will be coming back to us in terms of specific
10:16:54 ordinances that we can help implement different ways
10:16:58 to protect and expand and encourage even a healthier
10:17:04 tree canopy in our community.
10:17:06 They can even identify which roadways don't have tree
10:17:10 as long and could, and also, this is really
10:17:13 interesting, I went to a presentation yesterday at our
10:17:16 livable roadways committee, they can identify which
10:17:19 neighborhoods tend to be economically disadvantaged,
10:17:24 don't have as many trees, and with an eye toward if we
10:17:27 are going to be planting trees, let's plant them in

10:17:30 neighborhoods that need it.
10:17:31 So there is so many ways that we can improve the
10:17:35 sustainable -- sustainability of our community through
10:17:39 the implementation of this ordinance.
10:17:40 And I am just so excited as to that process in the
10:17:44 future and look forward to bringing the ordinance and
10:17:47 to help us implement these policies.
10:17:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:17:51 Vote and record.
10:17:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Wait a second.
10:17:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to thank Mr. Dingfelder for
10:17:57 all the work he did drafting this and working on it
10:17:59 with the community and all the people from the
10:18:01 community that came to all those meetings.
10:18:04 They deserve credit for that.
10:18:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to thank Mr. Dingfelder
10:18:11 and the rest of the city officers who spearheaded
10:18:14 this.
10:18:14 I also want to say going back to Ms. Saul-Sena for
10:18:16 saying that the block that I live on is disadvantaged,
10:18:19 because we are.
10:18:21 Lake Avenue from Armenia to three blocks has a great

10:18:26 tree canopy from Armenia down to Gomez, but once you
10:18:31 get to Gomez to MacDill, there's not too many
10:18:37 trees.
10:18:37 Looks like the top of my head.
10:18:39 So I appreciate that very much.
10:18:41 Secondly, more importantly, I usually try to follow
10:18:46 and promote every ordinance that the city has, and in
10:18:50 this green ordinance, once I pay my bill, my water
10:18:55 bill and my electric bill, and I have a copy, I will
10:18:59 be turning it into the clerk's office today.
10:19:02 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:19:04 Vote and record.
10:19:13 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Scott
10:19:15 being absent at vote.
10:19:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there anyone in the public that
10:19:19 wants to speak on items 90 through 95?
10:19:22 Would you please stand and raise your right hand?
10:19:24 (Oath administered by Clerk)
10:19:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Madam clerk, there are items to be
10:19:40 received and filed prior to the vote today?
10:19:41 I would ask they be received at this time.
10:19:43 >> So moved.

10:19:44 >> Second.
10:19:44 (Motion carried).
10:19:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's open items 90 through 95, please.
10:19:50 >>MARY MULHERN: Move to open 90 to 95.
10:19:53 >> Second.
10:19:54 (Motion carried).
10:19:54 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.
10:20:00 Items 90, 94 and 95 all require certified site plans.
10:20:05 These plans have been certified by the zoning
10:20:06 administrator and have been submitted to the clerk.
10:20:08 I have copies of these plans in case you have any
10:20:11 questions.
10:20:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:20:12 Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak on
10:20:15 item 90?
10:20:21 Need to close.
10:20:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
10:20:24 (Motion carried).
10:20:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance presented for
10:20:29 second reading, an ordinance approving a special use
10:20:32 permit S-2 approving a bank with a drive-in window in
10:20:35 a CG commercial general zoning district in the general

10:20:38 vicinity of 5144 east Busch Boulevard in the city of
10:20:41 Tampa, Florida more particularly described in section
10:20:43 1 hereof approving waivers as set forth herein,
10:20:47 providing an effective date.
10:20:49 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
10:20:51 Vote and record.
10:21:03 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Scott and
10:21:06 Saul-Sena being absent at vote.
10:21:17 >> Number 91, this is a second reading for 2(COP).
10:21:21 I want to remind City Council, we were in the process,
10:21:24 this is a second reading, for a public hearing.
10:21:27 The application at your last public hearing to be a
10:21:31 request for a one-year conditional with hours of
10:21:34 operation 6 p.m. to 10 p.m. Monday through Friday.
10:21:43 At the first reading there was some discussion as well
10:21:45 as at the first public hearing and I wanted to remind
10:21:48 City Council this wet zoning is in fact under your old
10:21:50 regulation, and it would be appropriate to condition
10:21:52 the wet zoning making an off-site transportation
10:21:57 improvement.
10:21:58 I am also available if you have questions.ding
10:22:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You said it would not?

10:22:05 >> It would not be appropriate.
10:22:07 >> The ordinance that was drafted would include the
10:22:10 condition?
10:22:11 >>REBECCA KERT: The ordinance right now is one year
10:22:13 conditional, with hours of operation from 6 to 10
10:22:16 Monday through Friday, four times a month.
10:22:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
10:22:24 I just wanted to say one thing about the ditch.
10:22:26 I drove down that street last night.
10:22:35 It's a big ditch.
10:22:37 No doubt about it.
10:22:38 But what I didn't realize until I drove down it,
10:22:42 because we talked about the safety issue with the
10:22:44 children, you know, I can see that street has a
10:22:48 problem because it's actually got a big ditch on one
10:22:50 side, and sort of a little swale on the other side.
10:22:53 But the problem with the swale on the other side is
10:22:55 that it probably doesn't allow very easily or
10:22:58 extensively a sidewalk to be put in.
10:23:00 What I didn't realize until yesterday, if you all
10:23:04 haven't driven down there recently, there's a very big
10:23:07 guardrail along that entire big ditch, okay, so it's

10:23:10 not like -- I mean, if the children want to climb over
10:23:13 the guardrail, yes, they can go down in that ditch and
10:23:16 children will be children.
10:23:17 But it's not like they are going to fall into the
10:23:19 ditch, because there's a standard, you know, D.O.T.
10:23:23 big metal guardrail that's right there.
10:23:26 So I don't know if that was in the pictures or what.
10:23:29 But I just want to remind council of that.
10:23:33 I'm comfortable with it.
10:23:34 I think we put a lot of conditions on it.
10:23:37 Let's give them a year to prove themselves and prove
10:23:39 themselves to the neighborhood.
10:23:40 And I'm sorry to the neighborhood that they are not
10:23:43 happy with me but let's see how it goes for a year.
10:23:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Madam Chair, I agree with what Mr.
10:23:51 Dingfelder said, but let me add to that, the way that
10:23:56 is now, if there's anything as a normal swale, this is
10:24:02 an abnormal ditch.
10:24:04 This thing is as wide from here to Ms. Mulhern and
10:24:09 from here to the ceiling.
10:24:11 Not that deep but very deep.
10:24:13 And I understand the guardrail.

10:24:14 But the problem is, there is nowhere to walk on
10:24:18 traffic coming either north or south.
10:24:21 So I don't know what this petitioner is going to do.
10:24:25 We have been told that we cannot include off-sites.
10:24:27 But I was raised in a neighborhood where you didn't
10:24:31 need to have a contract.
10:24:33 All you needed was a handshake and your word and that
10:24:36 was worth more than any contract there was.
10:24:39 So I'm going the old style. That's what was said
10:24:41 here.
10:24:41 I can't legally hold anyone to the fire on that.
10:24:45 But I don't forget either.
10:24:47 So what I'm saying is, I'm here for as much protection
10:24:50 of this location, six to ten, Monday through Friday,
10:24:55 four times a month.
10:24:56 However, let me also caution all of us, we need
10:25:00 enforcement of this.
10:25:01 And I don't know what department is going to be the
10:25:04 one that enforces exactly what is said here.
10:25:08 So if there's anyone in the administration that can
10:25:11 tell us -- and I voted for this, and I would like to
10:25:13 support it, but I want to know who is going to enforce

10:25:16 the hours of operation from six to ten, four times a
10:25:21 month.
10:25:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You can't leave on that question.
10:25:29 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Hours of operation are usually
10:25:34 monitored by the police, like they are in bars on
10:25:38 South Howard and Ybor.
10:25:39 Code enforcement actually stops working right around
10:25:43 sunset.
10:25:43 So usually if there are any issues, if there are calls
10:25:46 in, it will be to the police.
10:25:47 >> Here we go again, sunset. That could be at 5:00 or
10:25:53 5:30.
10:25:53 >>CATHERINE COYLE: True.
10:25:57 Thank you.
10:25:58 [ Laughter ]
10:26:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
10:26:02 wants to speak on item 91?
10:26:06 >>> Good morning.
10:26:19 Wilson Robinson, Jr., 4221 West Arch Street.
10:26:23 I'm the president of the Carver City Lincoln Garden
10:26:27 homeowners association.
10:26:28 Again, the citizens -- I mean the residents of this

10:26:32 community and the neighborhood still oppose the wet
10:26:37 zoning for the WZ 08-82 as a wavering of the wet zoned
10:26:45 property within 1,000 feet, the residential property
10:26:48 within 1,000 feet, institutional uses within 1,000
10:26:53 feet.
10:26:54 Also concerned with the traffic circulation, and
10:26:57 compatibility uses as a negative image this will have
10:27:01 on our neighborhood and the safety for our churches.
10:27:06 We have many ditches in our neighborhood.
10:27:11 We don't want to lose the issue why we are here.
10:27:15 We do not want wet zoning in our community.
10:27:18 Someone spoke of having a gym in this establishment.
10:27:23 How many council members will want children
10:27:27 participating in a gym with alcohol next door?
10:27:31 Certainly not a good image.
10:27:32 And we are very much concerned.
10:27:34 It would certainly benefit us if we had many ditches
10:27:37 closed in our community.
10:27:38 But our real concern is about establishment of sale of
10:27:42 alcohol.
10:27:43 That is not a good image for our young people.
10:27:46 We teach our young people not to drink, not to smoke,

10:27:48 not to use substance abuse.
10:27:51 But yet we expect for our children to be okay with
10:27:54 this and leave with a good positive image.
10:27:59 We feel this establishment being approved for wet
10:28:01 zoning is not a good thing for our neighborhood, and
10:28:05 to see our children be exposed to this.
10:28:07 Again I thank you all for this opportunity.
10:28:09 And we hope that all our -- the quality of life, we
10:28:16 have a safer community if those ditches were closed
10:28:21 and weighed sidewalks.
10:28:22 But that is not our real issue here.
10:28:24 Our real issue is wet zoning this morning that's going
10:28:27 to cause alcohol to be sold in our neighborhood, and
10:28:30 we certainly would not be very happy to have that.
10:28:34 Thank you very much.
10:28:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:28:38 >>> I have not been sworn in.
10:28:52 (Oath administered by Clerk).
10:28:57 >>> I'm a resident and board member for the homeowners
10:29:00 association, and I would like to present to the clerk
10:29:08 a copy of a petition that went through the
10:29:10 neighborhood for wet zoning in which the neighbors

10:29:13 voted against it.
10:29:18 Basically the petition history and background for WZ
10:29:34 08-82, petition history and background, a petition for
10:29:41 wet zoning to the City of Tampa for the property
10:29:44 located at 3924 West Spruce Street, Tampa, Florida.
10:29:49 The property is located between the neighborhood of
10:29:51 Carver City and Lincoln Gardens, Tampa is seeking to
10:29:56 change the zoning to 2(COP) to accommodate business
10:30:00 opportunities associated with the make row brewery,
10:30:04 especially a site located within the neighborhood of
10:30:08 Lincoln Gardens and Carver City which is primarily
10:30:11 single family residence.
10:30:14 The economic significance of a make row brewery in the
10:30:18 greater Westshore area could not be ignored, but the
10:30:20 potential impact of this proposed business location
10:30:23 directly impacts the eastern side of Carver City
10:30:26 neighborhood and the Lincoln Gardens residents that
10:30:30 live along Spruce street.
10:30:32 Petition -- currently located on the corner along the
10:30:38 roadway that connects the two neighborhoods of Lincoln
10:30:42 Gardens and Carver City.
10:30:46 The site is currently zoned as light industrial and

10:30:49 within the last five years an influx of new
10:30:51 development has changed the density of development
10:30:56 that serves alcohol and developments with more
10:30:59 industrial commercial use, are primarily located along
10:31:03 the perimeter of Carver City and Lincoln Gardens
10:31:07 neighborhood, thus limiting the impact of these new
10:31:09 developments on both neighborhoods, among other
10:31:13 concerns, residents of the neighborhood oppose the
10:31:15 location of the microbrewery due to the concerns of
10:31:20 incompatible use and traffic concerns we the
10:31:27 undersigned call on Tampa City Council against
10:31:33 approval of WZ 08-82 wet zone application.
10:31:37 With that being said, councilman Dingfelder, and
10:31:44 councilman Miranda made the statement at the last
10:31:46 meeting basically about compromise.
10:31:53 The short version of the history of compromise within
10:31:56 the neighborhood, neighborhood compromised to allow
10:32:06 the temporary county jail to be there, which was there
10:32:09 for 30 years.
10:32:13 Neighborhood opposed for traffic and parking concerns.
10:32:19 And as councilman Miranda pointed out targeted Home
10:32:24 Depot opposed by the neighborhood for traffic

10:32:26 concerns.
10:32:28 None of which were enforced.
10:32:32 And we don't see how this one is going to be enforced.
10:32:35 And we would also like clarification on the motion
10:32:37 because the motion that was made has changed.
10:32:40 The first motion said one night a week from six to ten
10:32:47 four times a month, not Monday through Friday six to
10:32:50 ten.
10:32:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We can get a clarification but the
10:32:56 intent was only four days a week maximum.
10:33:01 I can't even clarify.
10:33:03 Only four days a month is the motion.
10:33:04 And I think that's the way it reads.
10:33:06 >> It reads Monday through Friday.
10:33:09 >> But he can pick and choose.
10:33:11 He can do this week on a Monday, next we can he can do
10:33:15 it on Monday, the next week on Friday.
10:33:22 But that's the way it reads.
10:33:24 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to get clarification on
10:33:26 that.
10:33:34 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
10:33:36 I am going off of the action agenda, and legal

10:33:39 department be requested to draft an ordinance
10:33:41 outlining certain limitations including the hours of
10:33:44 operation will be from 6 p.m. to 10 p.m. Monday
10:33:46 through Friday limiting to four nights a month and a
10:33:49 one-year conditional use.
10:33:52 >> Interpretation of that?
10:33:55 >>REBECCA KERT: My interpretation is four nights a
10:33:58 months Monday through Friday but never more than a
10:34:01 total of four a month.
10:34:01 >>GWEN MILLER: County be spelled out in the ordinance?
10:34:07 Monday through Friday, don't say either/or.
10:34:11 >>> I am not sure how to clarify that.
10:34:13 I mean, Monday through Friday, they can have any day
10:34:16 Monday through Friday for a total of no more than four
10:34:19 nights a month.
10:34:20 >>GWEN MILLER: How are we going to know they are going
10:34:23 to do it?
10:34:24 >>> The same way we enforce all of the conditions you
10:34:28 impose which is if we get a complaint we go out and
10:34:30 verify it.
10:34:30 >> Which is not enforced. Okay.
10:34:34 >>> Well, it is enforced but it is complaint driven.

10:34:36 >> Thank you.
10:34:37 Next speaker.
10:34:42 >> My name is Eric Armstrong, a resident at 4215
10:34:47 LaSalle street, also a member of the board of Carver
10:34:50 City, Lincoln Gardens, and the residents and Mace
10:34:55 oppose file number WZ 08-82, the wet zone ordinance.
10:35:03 As it was proposed, most of the other institutions
10:35:07 serving alcohol are on the perimeter.
10:35:08 This is the first one that's actually within the
10:35:11 boundaries of our neighborhood.
10:35:13 Not only that, but other developments that have been
10:35:17 passed with retail and sales coming in, that's going
10:35:21 to make it a lot easier for other people coming in
10:35:23 that want to be more alcohol or wet zoning in our
10:35:26 area.
10:35:27 And we are opposed to it because of that.
10:35:29 And with the Monday through Friday thing that she just
10:35:34 clarified, and four nights a week, without set nights,
10:35:39 the police monitor on Monday and he decides he's going
10:35:42 to do it Tuesday and Thursday that week and they may
10:35:44 only catch one time.
10:35:46 So it's going to be hard to monitor it if he had that

10:35:49 broad an area to do it.
10:35:51 And we are definitely concerned about the impact that
10:35:54 it is going to have on the community, with the traffic
10:35:57 going in and out, people not knowing the direct routes
10:36:00 with the interstate and everything, cutting off the
10:36:02 main things, going through our neighborhoods.
10:36:04 I that area of Carver City and the southeast corner
10:36:13 over there, there's only going to be two main routes
10:36:16 really in there other than having to go a couple of
10:36:19 blocks even to get out.
10:36:20 And this is going to increase the influx of traffic
10:36:23 just for people even coming to see the brewery itself,
10:36:27 not just the hours of operation when he's actually
10:36:29 serving the alcohol.
10:36:31 Because he said he's got people that distribute, just
10:36:36 like with the make row brewery, people take tours of
10:36:39 the microbrewery, talk about doing that as well, in
10:36:42 addition to being able to have sit downs where people
10:36:47 are served at the dinners.
10:36:48 Once again my name is Eric Armstrong and I am opposed
10:36:51 to it.
10:37:09 >> I live on the corner of LaSalle and church street.

10:37:11 Church street -- everything has been said here from
10:37:16 all the speakers before me.
10:37:19 Everything has been said I agree with.
10:37:22 And I agree more.
10:37:23 But I would like to speak for some of the other
10:37:26 people, residents.
10:37:29 Church street was -- you have to understand how this
10:37:38 neighborhood was
10:37:47 But I would like to speak from my heart to you.
10:37:53 I'm 80 years old.
10:37:56 Others are older.
10:37:57 We have a neighborhood now that -- they say they are
10:38:10 not going to close the ditches,
10:38:16 The congestion, with traffic, and now we have more
10:38:39 when we try to walk.
10:38:41 What they have said is true.
10:38:45 There will be more traffic.
10:38:46 There will be more congestion, different attitudes.
10:38:56 There are those who live alone.
10:39:01 How are we going to sleep at night knowing this is in
10:39:04 the neighborhood?
10:39:05 I have never been a drinker, but I have been around

10:39:14 drinkers.
10:39:17 I know in seeing -- very, very upset.
10:39:31 What they are saying, it is true.
10:39:39 They have not expressed 80-year-old feelings.
10:39:48 We would be thankful.
10:39:52 Don't put alcohol in Carver City.
10:39:58 We have agreed to lots of things.
10:40:07 Yes, it would give them opportunity to come into the
10:40:09 neighborhood.
10:40:16 I thank you.
10:40:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
10:40:22 >>REBECCA KERT: I don't see anyone else getting up.
10:40:25 Two things.
10:40:26 Number one, I would like to clarify whether or not the
10:40:29 petitioner is here to make it clear on the record that
10:40:32 he had an opportunity to speak.
10:40:33 I just want to clarify for the City Council the only
10:40:37 thing before is you a one-year conditional for the wet
10:40:39 zoning.
10:40:39 The underlying microbrewery is allowed as a matter of
10:40:44 right regardless of what you do today.
10:40:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Rebecca, for clarifying

10:40:49 that.
10:40:49 And I think it's important not only for folks in the
10:40:51 audience but for anybody who watch.
10:40:54 Who is watching to know what it is that we are
10:40:56 tentatively approving.
10:40:58 Who knows how the vote is going to go?
10:41:00 But this is a microbrewery, little machinery thing
10:41:04 that makes beer.
10:41:06 It's already allowed in that building in, that zoning
10:41:09 under the existing industrial zoning.
10:41:11 So the only question that the petitioner has brought
10:41:13 to us is four nights a week he would like to have --
10:41:17 >> Four nights a month.
10:41:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Four nights a month, he would like
10:41:21 to have people come in for a little beer tasting, just
10:41:25 like a little wine tasting.
10:41:27 I don't think it's the same as approving a bar.
10:41:31 I think it's on an extremely limited basis, just to
10:41:35 help them market their product.
10:41:41 Frankly, if this was industrial use in my neighborhood
10:41:44 and somebody wanted to do this, I have a little wine
10:41:48 shop around the corner from me, and they came in and

10:41:50 asked for wine tasting, and we gave it to them, and
10:41:54 that's about a half a block from my house right there
10:41:56 on MacDill.
10:41:58 I think it's much different than a bar.
10:42:00 If it was a bar, I would vote no, no, no for your
10:42:04 neighborhood.
10:42:04 But this is a different use, and like I said, I can
10:42:07 support it on a limited basis for one year and see how
10:42:10 it goes.
10:42:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The neighbors, you all are really
10:42:16 compelling.
10:42:17 You have made a very strong case.
10:42:19 The petition ha has made signatures of people who
10:42:22 actually live in the neighborhood.
10:42:24 And your case is strong.
10:42:28 But a conditional use means that if there are any
10:42:32 indiscretions, you will share that with us at the end
10:42:35 of the year and we won't grant them a permanent
10:42:41 allowance.
10:42:41 A conditional means that you and the police and we
10:42:46 will have a sense of how this goes.
10:42:50 Isn't for liquor.

10:42:50 It's for beer and wine.
10:42:52 And it's conditionally for a year, four nights a
10:42:55 month, from six to ten.
10:42:57 I think that's a very modest request.
10:42:59 And I'm going to support it but with an eye towards
10:43:03 being very critical when they come back in a year to
10:43:05 see that they have truly done what they have
10:43:08 requested.
10:43:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Council members, I am continuing to ask
10:43:14 for your support.
10:43:15 We have not one neighborhood, we have two
10:43:17 neighborhoods coming down asking you to support them.
10:43:21 We usually support neighborhoods when they come down
10:43:23 and give their thoughts and what they think about
10:43:25 their neighborhoods.
10:43:26 We always think about the safety and we think about
10:43:28 what it's going to do to the neighborhood, and some of
10:43:35 the brewer companies, you can smell that odor and I
10:43:37 know that's going to go through the neighborhood.
10:43:40 And I don't know how many petitions, people that live
10:43:44 in the neighborhood, asking you pleas to not put that
10:43:46 in their neighborhood.

10:43:47 And you say we always think about children first, and
10:43:52 I know I do.
10:43:53 We think about the safety of the children and
10:43:55 neighborhoods, not only children, but even think about
10:43:57 the safety of the people in that neighborhood.
10:44:05 That's for anybody, not just for the children but for
10:44:08 adults.
10:44:08 And I'm asking you, do not put this in this
10:44:10 neighborhood.
10:44:11 They are asking for your help.
10:44:12 And you need to give that to the neighborhoods when
10:44:16 they ask for it and we have these people asking for
10:44:18 it.
10:44:18 Mr. Miranda.
10:44:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
10:44:24 I think it's been said -- and I don't want to
10:44:26 reiterate the past -- but anyone can correct me at any
10:44:31 time.
10:44:31 They don't need us to put the microbrewery.
10:44:34 That can happen without this vote.
10:44:43 If there is smell, I don't really know.
10:44:44 I'm thinking beer.

10:44:45 I can only tell you that if there is smell, this
10:44:48 council doesn't have to vote on it.
10:44:50 They have the right to put that there now the way the
10:44:53 laws are, and the structures are, and the mechanisms
10:44:58 that are in place for not only this petitioner but any
10:45:00 other petitioner that has the same type of land zoning
10:45:03 to put whatever falls within that scope of that land
10:45:07 zoning.
10:45:07 What is before us is four days a month, which could
10:45:11 include four days and one week, four days and four --
10:45:20 within a month.
10:45:20 Now here again what is a month, 29 days, 30 days or 31
10:45:26 days?
10:45:26 But I guess it means numerical month, not the number
10:45:28 of days in a month.
10:45:30 So the petitioner is not here.
10:45:36 I'm not trying to belabor this.
10:45:39 These good neighbors come here and they want a vote up
10:45:42 or down.
10:45:42 But I also want to have the petitioner here, for that
10:45:46 individual corporation to tell the neighbors face to
10:45:48 face, like I said earlier, I believe in eye to eye

10:45:53 contact and a handshake.
10:45:54 I don't have to make legal deals.
10:45:56 But I want the petitioner here to tell the
10:45:58 neighborhood exactly what they intend to do.
10:46:02 So before we vote -- and the chairman is not here,
10:46:09 maybe we can contact the petitioner and ask, because
10:46:11 the chair was also against it, Chairman Scott, and I
10:46:14 want that vote recorded one way or the other.
10:46:16 But I would like to ask somebody to contact the
10:46:19 petitioner, see if they can get here within a
10:46:22 reasonable time, 30 minutes, maybe, that's when the
10:46:25 chair arrives, so this can be debated in front of the
10:46:28 parties, both parties.
10:46:30 We are only hearing from one side.
10:46:31 And I think that's the most fairest way for the
10:46:34 neighborhoods, for Ms. Miller, and for all members of
10:46:38 council at this time.
10:46:39 So may I ask for a 30-minute delay on this so they can
10:46:43 get the petitioner here and maybe the chairman will be
10:46:46 here, also?
10:46:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: is that in the form of a motion?
10:46:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, sir.

10:46:52 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes, sir second.
10:46:54 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor?
10:47:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 30 minutes.
10:47:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Opposed?
10:47:05 (Motion carried).
10:47:05 We go to item 92.
10:47:07 Is there anyone in the public wants to speak on item
10:47:09 92?
10:47:10 We need to close.
10:47:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
10:47:16 >> Second.
10:47:16 (Motion carried).
10:47:17 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Madam Chair, can I ask a question
10:47:25 for clarification?
10:47:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
10:47:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Publix has a beer and wine
10:47:32 license to sell alcohol.
10:47:34 They have demonstrators in there every week giving
10:47:37 wine to people.
10:47:41 Is this what's going to happen at this place on Spruce
10:47:44 Street?
10:47:46 They are not going to be selling it, are they?

10:47:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Wait for the 30 minutes.
10:47:55 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:47:56 I just spoke to Mr. Redner and he's on his way.
10:47:59 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
10:48:01 Thank you.
10:48:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In regard to number 92, the 4808
10:48:06 east Broadway location for wet zoning, I move an
10:48:11 ordinance for second reading, an ordinance making
10:48:13 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol of
10:48:15 more than 1% by weight and not more than 14% by weight
10:48:19 and wines regardless of alcoholic content beer and
10:48:21 wine 2(APS) in sealed containers for consumption off
10:48:24 premises only at or from that certain lot, plot or
10:48:26 tract of land located at 4808-A east Broadway Avenue,
10:48:30 Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in
10:48:32 section 2 hereof, waiving certain restrictions as to
10:48:35 distance based upon certain findings, providing for
10:48:37 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
10:48:39 effective date.
10:48:40 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:48:42 Vote and record.
10:48:56 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to vote again.

10:49:40 Vote and record.
10:49:42 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott voting no and
10:50:06 Saul-Sena being absent.
10:50:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
10:50:13 wants to speak on item 93?
10:50:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
10:50:20 (Motion carried).
10:50:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance for second reading,
10:50:29 an ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity
10:50:31 of 5410 north Albany Avenue in the city of Tampa,
10:50:34 Florida and more particularly described in section 1
10:50:36 from zoning district classifications RS-50 residential
10:50:40 single-family to CG commercial general providing an
10:50:43 effective date.
10:50:43 >> Second.
10:50:44 (Motion carried).
10:50:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Vote and record.
10:50:50 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:51:08 >> Is there anyone from the public that wants to speak
10:51:11 on item 94?
10:51:12 >> Move to close.
10:51:13 >> Second.

10:51:13 (Motion carried).
10:51:14 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance for adoption on
10:51:20 second reading, an ordinance rezoning property in the
10:51:23 general vicinity of 8115 and 8117 north 13th
10:51:27 street and 8118 north Klondyke street in the city of
10:51:32 Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in
10:51:33 section 1 from zoning district classifications RS-50
10:51:37 residential single-family to PD planned development,
10:51:41 place of religious assembly, providing an effective
10:51:43 date.
10:51:44 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion.
10:51:45 Need a second.
10:51:46 >> Second.
10:51:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Vote and record.
10:51:58 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:51:59 >> Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak
10:52:01 on item 95?
10:52:02 >> Move to close.
10:52:10 >> Second.
10:52:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close.
10:52:12 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
10:52:14 Opposed, Nay.

10:52:15 Mrs. Saul-Sena, would you read that, please?
10:52:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move an ordinance
10:52:22 for second reading and adoption.
10:52:25 An ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity
10:52:27 of 3516 west Bay to Bay Boulevard and 3511 west
10:52:34 Santiago street in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
10:52:36 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
10:52:38 district classifications RM-16 residential multifamily
10:52:41 to PD planned development, business professional
10:52:43 office, providing an effective date.
10:52:44 >> Second.
10:52:45 >> Motion and second.
10:52:46 Vote and record.
10:52:59 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with
10:53:01 Dingfelder being absent at vote.
10:53:17 >> This is a vacating of an alley, land development
10:53:28 site, a vacating of an alleyway generally located at
10:53:35 Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard and west of the
10:53:37 interstate.
10:53:38 I have a picture for the Elmo.
10:53:45 The petitioner's property is in red.
10:53:46 And the alley being vacated in yellow.

10:53:49 A portion of an alley.
10:53:53 It's unimproved.
10:53:56 The north-south portion is improved.
10:54:00 This alley is located south of Alfred street, north of
10:54:03 west street, west of OLA and east of Massachusetts.
10:54:09 Part of the reason that this is -- the house that was
10:54:13 constructed there encroaches into the alley two feet.
10:54:15 This portion of the alley is blocked.
10:54:19 I have photos.
10:54:24 This is the alley looking east from Massachusetts
10:54:26 towards OLA.
10:54:37 This is the east-west alley looking west from the
10:54:40 north-south portion towards Massachusetts.
10:54:48 I have photos in the north-south portion that's paved
10:54:50 and not being vacated.
10:54:57 And this is a photo of petitioner's house.
10:55:01 Staff has no objection to this request.
10:55:07 This is in the Tampa Bay Heights business association.
10:55:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It appears to this new construction
10:55:33 that it conform to the Seminole Heights overlay
10:55:36 district rule.
10:55:37 And if the alley wasn't vacated, how did they get

10:55:44 permission to build a house that was set too close to
10:55:48 it?
10:55:48 And if the house paid attention to the design
10:55:52 guidelines, how come we are not protecting the alleys?
10:55:55 I thought we were protecting the alleys in our
10:55:58 historic district.
10:55:59 >>> Well, this is outside the historic district.
10:56:01 And I'm not quite sure how they got to build this
10:56:08 If a site plan is approved it should show the
10:56:11 appropriate setbacks so maybe petitioner can shed some
10:56:14 light on how this was constructed.
10:56:16 >> Okay, he will come up and share.
10:56:19 >> Chris Freeman. I live at 8833 Cypress Hammock
10:56:26 Drive.
10:56:27 I have not been sworn in.
10:56:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else that has not been sworn to
10:56:35 address council?
10:56:36 Anyone else that has not been sworn?
10:56:38 (Oath administered by Clerk).
10:56:41 >>> I'm a former resident of 312 west Alfred street.
10:56:45 In 2004 I had a detached garage built by a contractor.
10:56:50 The contractor contacted the city and was informed

10:56:56 based on conversation with the contractor, was
10:56:59 informed that the alley was closed and he offered to
10:57:03 move the structure, the proposed structure back to
10:57:06 give us more room.
10:57:08 And I had no opposition to that.
10:57:11 Permits were pulled.
10:57:12 Construction commenced.
10:57:13 And the structure was finalized.
10:57:16 I put my house on the market for sale, and I found out
10:57:19 that the alley was not closed.
10:57:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Just for the record to specify a
10:57:31 location that's about six, seven blocks north of the
10:57:34 old Jefferson school.
10:57:36 High school.
10:57:38 So it's close to a public park back there.
10:57:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone who wants to address council on
10:57:46 this issue? Okay.
10:57:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:57:52 >> Second.
10:57:53 (Motion carried).
10:57:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Miranda, do you want to read that?
10:58:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move an ordinance for first

10:58:02 reading, an ordinance vacating, closing,
10:58:06 discontinuing, abandoning a certain right-of-way a
10:58:09 portion of alleyway lying north of West Street, south
10:58:12 of Alfred street, east of Massachusetts Avenue and
10:58:12 west of Ola Avenue, in corrected map of El Dorado, a
10:58:12 subdivision located in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough
10:58:12 County, Florida, the same being more fully described
10:58:19 in section 2 hereof providing an effective date.
10:58:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
10:58:25 All in favor let it be known by Aye.
10:58:27 Opposes? So moved.
10:58:29 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Mulhern
10:58:32 being absent at vote.
10:58:33 The second reading of the ordinance will be held July
10:58:38 17th at 9:30 a.m.
10:58:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item number 44, council needs to vote
10:59:01 The new city attorney.
10:59:02 So give Mr. Fletcher an opportunity to come up and
10:59:05 address council if he so desires.
10:59:14 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: It's a pleasure to be here before
10:59:16 you today.
10:59:17 With the hope that you will confirm me as the city

10:59:22 attorney when Mr. Smith leaves the city next month.
10:59:27 I have had the pleasure of working with many of you,
10:59:29 and getting to know the members of the council who I
10:59:33 have not served with, and it's my honor to work with
10:59:39 you and serve you as well as the mayor and the people
10:59:43 of the City of Tampa, and if you have any questions or
10:59:48 if any of you would like to get together with me
10:59:50 privately to discuss any issues or thoughts you may
10:59:53 have, I would like to get together with you.
10:59:55 Thank you.
10:59:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
10:59:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I defer to Mr. Miranda since he
11:00:02 deferred to me earlier.
11:00:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, Mr.
11:00:06 Dingfelder.
11:00:06 Mr. Fletcher, we welcome you on board.
11:00:09 We look forward to working with you.
11:00:10 However, I want to caution you that this job that you
11:00:13 are taking more likely will be the most monumentous
11:00:17 decision that you made in your life.
11:00:20 Most of us who have been here for some period of time
11:00:22 either get gray hair or no hair at all.

11:00:25 So we welcome you on board.
11:00:27 If you look around there's a colleague that you will
11:00:29 be here leaving soon, he came with a lot of hair.
11:00:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
11:00:40 Mr. Fletcher, Chip, we are real proud that the mayor
11:00:43 selected you, and I am confident you are about to get
11:00:47 confirmed by this body.
11:00:51 As long as we are in serious mode, I want to say
11:00:54 something about what David managed to do over the last
11:00:58 four years, and this is a good thing, David, don't
11:01:00 worry.
11:01:03 But it's a difficult task, because as the city
11:01:08 attorney, you know, you have two masters in some ways
11:01:12 in terms of the mayor, and then council.
11:01:16 99% of the time mayor and council are on the same page
11:01:19 and it's great but one percent of the time sometimes
11:01:23 it poses a problem as David has experienced over the
11:01:25 last four-plus years.
11:01:28 But at the end of the day, David and I have had many
11:01:30 discussions on this.
11:01:31 What David reminds me, and I will remind you, and you
11:01:35 said a little while ago, that you are there for the

11:01:38 City of Tampa.
11:01:41 For the citizens of the City of Tampa, not for
11:01:43 council, and not for the mayor.
11:01:44 But I think at the end of the day, when David gets
11:01:48 stuck in that crack, you know, between these eight
11:01:53 folks who are trying hard, you fall back to that
11:01:56 position and it usually works out pretty well.
11:01:58 Again I welcome you back on board and look forward to
11:02:00 working with you.
11:02:07 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to welcome you and say
11:02:09 we were thrilled to hear, I was, and yipe guessing the
11:02:12 other council members were really thrilled to hear
11:02:15 that someone who actually worked here in our place
11:02:19 will have a very good understanding of what we are
11:02:24 doing, so I am welcome you, and we are sad to see
11:02:28 David go, and I have to warn you that I think that one
11:02:32 percent that John mentioned might be a little
11:02:34 different.
11:02:38 And I did want to just recognize David Smith was named
11:02:42 one of the -- David Smith and Julia Cole, you have got
11:02:49 some serious company, were just named as top employers
11:02:53 in the government attorney category.

11:02:57 [ Applause ]
11:02:57 And I am sure you will be on there next year.
11:03:05 Welcome.
11:03:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Adding my welcome.
11:03:12 The thought that you served as council member from an
11:03:16 interim position I think gives you insight.
11:03:18 We need you to be -- David has been a really great
11:03:22 advocate for the city, and a diplomat between
11:03:26 departments in getting things done.
11:03:28 So in addition to all the legal responsibilities, that
11:03:33 position of advocacy for getting to action, getting
11:03:39 projects that the city wants to have done, done.
11:03:42 It's tremendously important.
11:03:43 And David has said generously that he will just be
11:03:47 across the street, available to us all.
11:03:49 And I hope you will avail yourselves of that.
11:03:51 Because you have been so effective, Mr. Smith.
11:03:54 And we'll see you in the future.
11:03:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Welcome aboard.
11:04:01 It's my pleasure to look forward to working with you.
11:04:03 I know you have been trying to get together recently.
11:04:08 You have made vigorous attempts to meet with me and my

11:04:11 schedule didn't allow that but I look forward to
11:04:13 working with you in the future.
11:04:14 And I'm sure if you talk to David Smith you will find
11:04:18 out that I am not as bad as I appear to be.
11:04:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move item 44.
11:04:24 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I could say
11:04:27 something?
11:04:28 Don't believe everything Charlie says.
11:04:31 I welcome you, and Mr. Smith, we'll be seeing you.
11:04:35 You are not far away.
11:04:37 I'm sure you will do a great job, sir.
11:04:39 Thank you.
11:04:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Take your snapshot today.
11:04:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need a motion to approve.
11:04:47 >> So moved.
11:04:47 >> Second.
11:04:48 (Motion carried).
11:04:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
11:04:55 Item 97.
11:05:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: There is a memo in the file.
11:05:09 I don't see Mr. Porter present.
11:05:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Requesting a continuance.

11:05:20 >> Requesting a continuance.
11:05:23 >>> Jim Porter, Jackson street representing applicant.
11:05:27 We received a request from the association requesting
11:05:32 a request for a continuance.
11:05:34 We are still working out some issues.
11:05:39 That has nothing to do with the wet zoning.
11:05:41 We have a right to go forward today but as a courtesy
11:05:45 we are requesting a continuance to November 20th
11:05:48 to continue to work out those issues.
11:05:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone in the public want to speak to
11:05:52 the continuance?
11:05:53 >> The time?
11:06:07 1:30?
11:06:09 >> 1:30.
11:06:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's fine.
11:06:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I just want to bring to council's
11:06:16 attention normally when you request something like
11:06:18 that, there is a continuance that is a long way out
11:06:20 with regard to notice.
11:06:21 I just want council to be aware of that.
11:06:23 I don't know if there's any issues.
11:06:25 But I don't know if there's any other affected parties

11:06:28 who may want to be made aware of that.
11:06:35 >>> If council wishes as a courtesy to renotice,
11:06:39 certainly would be happy to do that.
11:06:41 I don't think there's a legal need to do that.
11:06:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's usually our course.
11:06:47 If petitioner agrees.
11:06:49 It's not a big burden.
11:06:52 >>> We would be happy to do that.
11:06:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
11:06:58 Did we vote on that?
11:07:00 >> All in favor of the continuance?
11:07:02 Opposes?
11:07:03 (Motion carried)
11:07:09 Number 98 cannot be heard.clerk
11:07:15 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Council, I wanted to go back
11:07:18 to 81 and give you the result of the vote for the
11:07:21 affordable housing advisory committee.
11:07:24 The individual representing the employer within the
11:07:28 city, and that would be Mr. James Andrew Horvick
11:07:34 receiving the most votes.
11:07:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, if we can, I have two
11:07:41 requests.

11:07:41 Number one is if we can have a vote of council as a
11:07:46 whole to ratify the votes of the people selected, and
11:07:51 I don't know who prepared the resolution for this but
11:07:54 my understanding is because it has to be done by a
11:07:57 certain period of time, I don't know whether you want
11:07:59 to have in writing for the chair to be able to sign
11:08:01 off before the end of the day on the written
11:08:04 resolution.
11:08:06 >>CINDY MILLER: Director growth management development
11:08:07 services.
11:08:08 And I believe, Mr. Shelby, you said in the past if you
11:08:17 have a motion today they are considered appointed.
11:08:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: On that Psalm issue, I support the
11:08:23 mood of council.
11:08:24 However, there has been no legal -- I'll give to the
11:08:28 Mr. Shelby to report to the council after this vote is
11:08:30 taken, already been taken by confirmation of the vote,
11:08:35 to require that legal opinion been given to the
11:08:38 council, whether this meet with all the structurals
11:08:41 and the applicable -- the original growth applied,
11:08:49 whether for employers, does employer mean outside of
11:08:52 the city or not?

11:08:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want to have that rendered
11:08:57 subsequent to this?
11:08:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It's already been issued.
11:09:01 That's way was trying to avoid.
11:09:02 >>> It's a residence of the individual, not the
11:09:08 residency of the business.
11:09:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm fine with that.
11:09:11 Thank you very much.
11:09:11 >>> We have a motion.
11:09:13 All in favor let it be known by Aye.
11:09:16 Opposed same mood.
11:09:27 These are items for this afternoon.
11:09:31 Number 98 cannot be heard.
11:09:34 Request the petition --
11:09:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe item 16, 17, 18 --
11:09:46 >>GWEN MILLER: 91.
11:09:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 91.
11:09:55 It's already open.
11:10:06 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
11:10:07 I believe the petitioner Mr. Redner is here to answer
11:10:12 Mr. Miranda's question.
11:10:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't believe Mr. Redner has been

11:10:15 sworn.
11:10:15 If there's anybody else.
11:10:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I asked for all parties to be here
11:10:33 because there was some different interpretations of
11:10:35 all things and I wanted the record clear.
11:10:37 Mr. Redner, on your application where it says four
11:10:40 days a month, that means either one day a week, or
11:10:45 four days in a week, and then no longer to the next
11:10:48 month?
11:10:48 Are you aware that's what it means?
11:10:50 >>> Joe Redner: I would limit that to one day a week.
11:10:54 >> Okay.
11:10:55 I think that clarifies even more than I anticipated
11:10:59 because we were talking about six to ten, 6 p.m. to
11:11:02 10 p.m., one day a week, which would be in some cases
11:11:06 five times a month, depending on the weeks of the year
11:11:10 of the month.
11:11:12 I always think ahead.
11:11:18 >>> We would limit to four times a month.
11:11:20 >> Okay, fine.
11:11:21 I just want it on the record if that's what that
11:11:22 means.

11:11:23 >>> Not more than one time a week.
11:11:26 >> Not more than four times in a calendar month.
11:11:28 >>> Exactly.
11:11:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Would that they're be any sales?
11:11:35 >>> The only sales, there would ab package sale in a
11:11:38 gift shop where they couldn't drink there, they could
11:11:43 take it to go, if they came for a tour, if they were
11:11:45 walking through the brewery, and if they want to take
11:11:51 some beer with them they would be able to take it with
11:11:53 them.
11:11:56 If that bothers City Council I will limit myself to
11:11:58 that.
11:11:59 I don't know how that would bother the neighborhood,
11:12:01 though, beer to go.
11:12:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Could I ask Mr. Harvey to come up and
11:12:17 address that?
11:12:19 >>> I guess I need clarification.
11:12:29 >>> It would be a gift shop and there would be beer
11:12:31 sold to people who come for tours to go.
11:12:34 There also would be -- with that one time a week,
11:12:40 would be a sit-down dinner where there would be three
11:12:42 to four ounces of beer served with each course of the

11:12:48 meal to complement the meals, four times a month that
11:12:55 we would have dinners, if we have that many.
11:13:05 >> I understand that.
11:13:07 And I guess the temporary thing, the question was on
11:13:12 that temporary time period, after that temporary time
11:13:15 period, does it stay four days a month?
11:13:18 >>GWEN MILLER: He has to come back to council.
11:13:22 We have to reapprove it again.
11:13:24 >>> It goes away unless they approve it again.
11:13:27 And I would like to try to show that we have in a
11:13:29 problems at that time, and maybe expand it a little
11:13:34 bit.
11:13:34 But that would only be on a showing that there wasn't
11:13:37 any problems for the neighborhood.
11:13:38 And the neighborhood of course would come and speak.
11:13:43 And if there is problems I'm sure it will be --
11:13:50 >>>
11:13:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you agree with that?
11:13:58 >>> Well, I don't agree but -- as stated earlier we
11:14:03 didn't agree.
11:14:05 But I just wanted clarification, and Mr. Miranda
11:14:08 wanted clarification.

11:14:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Just one minute.
11:14:21 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
11:14:22 I just wanted to get some clarification from City
11:14:25 Council.
11:14:27 Because now I think it might have gotten a little
11:14:30 muddled.
11:14:30 Right now the sale of alcoholic beverages is only
11:14:32 allowed six to ten Monday through Friday one day a
11:14:34 week.
11:14:44 Package sales is different.
11:14:47 If I could get some direction, and also whether or not
11:14:50 you want me to quickly amend to the one day a week, or
11:14:52 whatever the motion is based on the conversations.
11:14:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm glad she's asking these
11:14:58 questions.
11:14:59 Please don't leave because this is getting more
11:15:00 confusing by the second.
11:15:01 What I'm hearing is this.
11:15:04 People come like they do at all breweries.
11:15:08 This is a microbrewery, I guess.
11:15:10 I am not into this but I'm just assuming what it is.
11:15:12 So you brew different types of beer, beer A, B, C and

11:15:18 D, like four different types.
11:15:20 A white dry, a dry wet, lager beer, whatever it is,
11:15:27 because I don't drink.
11:15:28 So then I'm assuming that the sit-down is separate
11:15:32 from the other.
11:15:33 The others he can have without the zoning.
11:15:36 He can have a place to manufacture.
11:15:38 And I guess to ship out from his manufacturing plant
11:15:44 to -- I'm assuming, again I am doing a lot of
11:15:47 assumptions here -- that what he's bringing in are
11:15:50 people in the industry so that he can sell and he can
11:15:54 build up his wholesale route by selling to
11:15:57 restaurants, and to different hotels, and to different
11:16:00 venues, that are already licensed to sell.
11:16:03 So another assumption is, the only time that a beer is
11:16:08 going to be opened up and served at this location at
11:16:12 3924 west Spruce is at the time that he has four times
11:16:19 a calendar month which is less than four times a
11:16:21 month, the way the weeks are.
11:16:25 So then I assume that only during that period, from
11:16:29 six to ten, on four occasions within a calendar month,
11:16:34 is this petitioner allowed to give samples of beer

11:16:38 with the meal.
11:16:40 Am I correct?
11:16:41 Councilman?
11:16:43 >>> Yes.
11:16:46 Four times a month.
11:16:48 It's currently not limited to one time a week.
11:16:51 >> He said one time a week, but we have to figure out,
11:16:54 for twice a year there will be no sales for a week.
11:17:00 I mean, I am not trying to be -- I am trying to say so
11:17:05 that the neighborhood understands and I understand,
11:17:07 more importantly.
11:17:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If it's important to remodify the
11:17:14 motion she can clarify it.
11:17:16 If not we'll leave it the way it is.
11:17:19 >>REBECCA KERT: We can do that.
11:17:21 I can also differentiate with on-site couples which is
11:17:28 what I am hearing --
11:17:30 >> I believe that's what this council wants to hear
11:17:32 and I believe that's what the neighborhood wants to
11:17:33 hear to at least give some more added security.
11:17:36 I know they are not happy.
11:17:38 But I also know that they can do what they want to do

11:17:40 now without that little two ounce or three ounce being
11:17:44 served.
11:17:45 And I'm trying to work out not a compromise, because
11:17:48 when somebody doesn't like somebody, it's very hard to
11:17:51 compromise.
11:17:51 I understand that.
11:17:52 So what I am trying to get to is to the root of this
11:17:57 problem so that we can put a notice up that it's
11:18:00 understandable to all the parties including this
11:18:02 council.
11:18:07 >>> In the ordinance it was not stated that he would
11:18:08 be selling package beer to carry out.
11:18:11 Is that in the ordinance?
11:18:13 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes, that is included.
11:18:14 Asking for 2 PS so it's on premises and off premises
11:18:18 sales.
11:18:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern and councilman
11:18:22 KATERNO.
11:18:25 >>MARY MULHERN: You better just stay there.
11:18:27 It is getting more confusing, because I think when we
11:18:30 voted on the last time, the assumption was it was for
11:18:34 the tasting, but now we are focusing on the fact that

11:18:39 this is package sales, too.
11:18:41 We need to know that that's going to be only on those
11:18:44 dates, or do we need to talk about that?
11:18:47 >>REBECCA KERT: Petitioner can speak to what his
11:18:55 understanding or what he was willing to agree to when
11:18:57 he agreed to that condition that would be a starting
11:19:01 point.
11:19:01 >>MARY MULHERN: Don't go away.
11:19:03 You can answer the legal part of it.
11:19:06 He didn't have already a package sales.
11:19:09 >>> Right now he has no ability to sell alcoholic
11:19:12 beverages.
11:19:12 He does have the right to have the microbrewery.
11:19:19 >>MARY MULHERN: So you are just planning to sell on
11:19:21 those dates that you are going to be having the
11:19:23 tastings?
11:19:26 >>> Joe Redner: We have a gift shop with all
11:19:29 different kinds of paraphernalia to promote the
11:19:32 brewery, and people would have tours.
11:19:41 We had people come in, tour the brewery, and it would
11:19:44 be part of the City of Tampa, and it would be a
11:19:47 microbrewery, probably only one in the City of Tampa,

11:19:51 and it would actually be open for tours like Budweiser
11:19:55 is and other places are.
11:19:58 We are going to have, for the -- we are not going to
11:20:01 push beer, but we would have some there, that if
11:20:04 someone said, I would Luke to try that, take some of
11:20:06 that beer home, that we would sell them a six pack to
11:20:09 take home.
11:20:14 That's it.
11:20:14 But I will limit myself.
11:20:17 >>MARY MULHERN: I guess the question is we were so
11:20:22 focused on the tasting.
11:20:26 Because I adopt remember.
11:20:27 Maybe we did.
11:20:27 Did we talk about the package sale at all?
11:20:30 >>> I think so.
11:20:31 >>MARY MULHERN: I just don't remember.
11:20:37 >>> I don't intend to do anything that's going to
11:20:39 cause a ruckus there, believe me.
11:20:42 And if there's a problem from the neighborhood, and
11:20:45 they can tell me they have a problem, I am going to
11:20:49 amend what I do without you guys to stop that problem,
11:20:53 period.

11:20:55 >> Great.
11:20:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
11:20:59 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Redner, let's say you have
11:21:02 your tastings on Friday, and Tuesday of that same week
11:21:07 you have a tour of people coming in to see your
11:21:09 brewery, and they decide they want to buy a six pack
11:21:13 of something.
11:21:14 You will be able to sell it to them then?
11:21:17 >>> Yes.
11:21:19 That's my understanding.
11:21:20 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Okay.
11:21:21 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
11:21:27 What I can do is amend the ordinance to separate the
11:21:31 on-site from the off-site.
11:21:32 What I have heard from Mr. Redner and from City
11:21:34 Council is that you would like to have the on-site
11:21:37 consumption limited from the hours of six to ten
11:21:40 Monday through Friday, four times a month, one day a
11:21:42 week.
11:21:44 The off premises consumption right now is limited to
11:21:47 that same thing.
11:21:48 If I understand that's not what Mr. Redner intended

11:21:50 but he is willing to put some limits on that.
11:21:52 If I can get some clarification on the hours of
11:21:55 operation or whatever conditions you want to place on
11:21:57 the offpremises sales I can make some changes to the
11:22:02 ordinance if that's the wish of council.
11:22:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
11:22:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess the only condition I would
11:22:08 say that would be probably reasonable is just sell the
11:22:12 product that he's making there.
11:22:14 That's the whole point of the whole thing.
11:22:15 I don't know if we can do that or not.
11:22:17 Mr. Redner?
11:22:20 If the intent is only sell the product that you are
11:22:23 making there.
11:22:23 It's not like you would bring in Budweiser, Michelob
11:22:27 and sell those.
11:22:28 >>> Absolutely.
11:22:28 Just our product.
11:22:29 And it would be four different -- that's it.
11:22:31 And they are craft beers, expensive beers, which we
11:22:34 are not going to import anything to sell there,
11:22:37 period.

11:22:41 >>GWEN MILLER: What's the hours of the gift shop?
11:22:43 What's the hours for that?
11:22:45 >>> Probably till four.
11:22:47 I close down everything at 4:00 except the gym there.
11:22:52 Which is open after school, the kids can come there.
11:22:56 It would be -- I'll make it 5:00.
11:23:00 >>GWEN MILLER: From what to what?
11:23:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Eight to five?
11:23:05 >>> Probably 9:00.
11:23:11 Nine to five.
11:23:11 >> The only time it will be a night operation will be
11:23:16 during the dinners.
11:23:18 Four times a month.
11:23:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me ask legal, where are we, legal,
11:23:27 Ms. Kert?
11:23:28 >>> For clarification about days of the week, for the
11:23:32 off premises sales, is that Monday through Friday?
11:23:34 Monday through Friday.
11:23:35 And is it the intent of the petitioner and City
11:23:37 Council to allow off-premises sales during the time
11:23:41 when there's also on premises six to ten?
11:23:45 >> Yes.

11:23:47 >>GWEN MILLER: The shop open at the same time you do
11:23:52 the tasting?
11:23:53 >>REBECCA KERT: That was my question.
11:23:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Directed to Mr. Redner.
11:23:58 So when you are tasting you are selling beer?
11:24:02 >>> Um, yeah.
11:24:06 [ Laughter ]
11:24:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Legal, do you have everything we need
11:24:20 now so we can move?
11:24:22 >>REBECCA KERT: If I can get a motion, yes, I can go
11:24:25 make these changes.
11:24:26 >> So moved.
11:24:27 >> Second.
11:24:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
11:24:31 Do have we need to read this, second reading?
11:24:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Direct legal to make the changes.
11:24:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor of the motion.
11:24:39 Opposed?
11:24:40 Okay.
11:24:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And the hearing is still open and I
11:24:42 believe it is going to be continued until what time?
11:24:45 Till 1:30?

11:24:48 Can that be a motion, please?
11:24:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved to bring it back at 1:30
11:24:53 with the changes that have been made.
11:24:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
11:24:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor let it be known by Aye.
11:25:01 I'm voting no.
11:25:03 All the way.
11:25:03 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott voting no.
11:25:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So come back at 1:30.
11:25:11 Council, we need to move now to the other items that
11:25:14 have been pulled from the agenda.
11:25:16 Item 16, 17, 18, I believe.
11:25:30 The WMBE participation.
11:25:32 >>> Do you want to talk about the participation?
11:25:41 >> Yes.
11:25:41 And then somebody from Skanska.
11:25:45 >> David Vaughan, director of contract administration.
11:25:48 In the doc agenda package, about two-thirds of the way
11:25:51 back is a summary sheet of a minority participation
11:25:54 for this portion of the project.
11:25:56 You will note in that, that there are 12 categories,
11:26:02 minority participation, and of those, seven or 100%

11:26:03 minority. On top of that in the management and
11:26:10 oversight performed portion of the work.
11:26:12 Another 30% of that number is also minority.
11:26:16 So out of a $4.2 million project, 2.2 million of that
11:26:21 is projected and scheduled for minority participation.
11:26:30 >>> Jonathan Graham, president, owner of --
11:26:35 construction services, helping Skanska on this
11:26:39 project.
11:26:40 Just wanted to let you know that Skanska went above
11:26:44 and beyond to help minority participation on this
11:26:50 particular project.
11:26:53 I checked with project manager, took every effort he
11:26:57 could to bring people in, to mentor people, so they
11:27:00 would be proposed to do this project, and in doing
11:27:02 this, they also reduced the cost of the project,
11:27:06 brought it down considerably.
11:27:08 But it's going to be a quality project.
11:27:10 But a lot of work and a lot of preparation has been
11:27:13 done by the city and Skanska to make this project work
11:27:19 nicely, and it will be a reflection of the complete
11:27:22 community.
11:27:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I just want to make sure we got that

11:27:27 on record.
11:27:29 The breakdown was not in the backup.
11:27:32 What was the breakdown?
11:27:33 I would like to have that in the future in terms of
11:27:35 the ethnicity.
11:27:40 So that wasn't in there.
11:27:41 Just had the number.
11:27:42 Had the percentages.
11:27:43 And I had a difficult trying to pull this up in the
11:27:52 backup material.
11:27:53 It is really difficult.
11:27:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I wanted to speak to the Kiley
11:27:58 garden repairs, number 18.
11:28:00 And I had an opportunity to speak with Mr. Vaughan and
11:28:05 Mr. Daignault about this.
11:28:06 As you know, the nonprofit group, very concerned that
11:28:13 it will allow in the future the restoration of Kiley
11:28:15 Gardens.
11:28:16 And I wanted to publicly compliment you because I have
11:28:20 given you so much grief in the past.
11:28:22 With what you have done in terms of having this broad
11:28:25 idea, instead of fixing a price and pre-sewage what

11:28:29 you do, to excavating, looking at what the actual
11:28:32 conditions are, which were fortunately less dreadful
11:28:36 than they might have been, figuring out a way to
11:28:38 restore them or prepare them in a way that in the
11:28:42 future we are going to be reusing the concrete pieces
11:28:48 which creates a decorative portion of the park, we are
11:28:51 going to be allowing the vertical features to be
11:28:53 recreated in the future, and you have spoken and
11:28:57 worked with closely the friends of Kiley so that
11:29:01 ultimately we will be able to restore that.
11:29:04 And I only hope that the next step then is that the
11:29:06 mayor will sign a letter recognizing this as a
11:29:09 historic park, which will allow us to appeal to the
11:29:13 federal government for some restoration funds.
11:29:21 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to comment.
11:29:23 I'm impressed with the plan that Skanska showed us for
11:29:29 restoring, not doing any more damage to the pieces,
11:29:37 the hardscape that's going back in the park.
11:29:40 But I would like to remind everybody that this was a
11:29:42 garden, and so we are taking care of the concrete, but
11:29:50 there is no plans at this point for the city to
11:29:53 restore the landscape which is -- or any of the water,

11:29:58 which is what made that park, and I would like to hear
11:30:06 on record from David or from Skanska, I don't know if
11:30:10 they are here, that the fountain, the water, the
11:30:16 pieces that are within that area that are -- that is
11:30:21 going to be restored, after you do the roof repair,
11:30:24 that those fountains, the water features will be
11:30:32 plumed at that time, or there will be the ability for
11:30:34 the water at some point, the fountain features, the
11:30:38 water features, to be turned back on, because I think
11:30:42 if do you this at this point, and don't allow for
11:30:46 that, it's never going to happen.
11:30:48 And I would like to just hope that at some point when
11:30:50 we do get some funding for this, that we'll be able to
11:30:54 do that without additional cost.
11:31:00 >>> This contract does include the preservation and
11:31:04 replacement back on the surface, the precast fountain
11:31:08 element.
11:31:09 It does not include plumbing Foss authorize elements.
11:31:12 However, the approach to this project will not
11:31:16 preclude that from happening in the future.
11:31:19 But it does not include the plumbing work to the
11:31:21 fountains.

11:31:27 >>MARY MULHERN: I would also like to say that, you
11:31:29 know, I guess the friends of Kiley Park is calling
11:31:32 this project mothballing, that it going to be repaired
11:31:39 to some level, it's going to be fitting.
11:31:44 I feel that the city, it's our responsibility because
11:31:49 we didn't remove, cut down all the trees that were
11:31:53 there, to fund at some point the landscaping here, and
11:31:59 I think since we are doing all the -- planning to do
11:32:04 all this work in Curtis Hixon park, and build a brand
11:32:06 new park, this needs to be part of it.
11:32:09 And I think -- I'm just hoping to see that.
11:32:14 And we are going to be looking -- I'm going to be
11:32:16 looking very closely at our budget, and seeing if
11:32:20 there's money there.
11:32:21 And I would also like to say that friends of Kiley
11:32:23 Park, I know, Linda, you were involved when they got
11:32:27 started, that I hope they are going to start doing the
11:32:33 fund-raising.
11:32:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: They will, as soon as they are sure
11:32:36 that the park -- I mean, they are very satisfied with
11:32:40 what's going to be restored.
11:32:41 I'm hopeful that when the Strand decision gets

11:32:44 resolved, you know -- I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman.
11:32:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, councilman Dingfelder was next.
11:32:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll defer.
11:32:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The Strand decision, we are
11:32:55 prepared to spend $40 million which got held up at
11:32:58 like the eleventh hour, which is why we are not moving
11:33:02 ahead on Ashley drive.
11:33:04 I'm hopeful that the Strand decision gets resolved.
11:33:06 And when that money is then made available to complete
11:33:08 some of the things we want to do, like phase 2, the
11:33:14 reinstallation of trees or vertical elements in the
11:33:18 park, that's my expectation.
11:33:23 >>MARY MULHERN: That's good to hear.
11:33:24 I just want to second what Linda said and I think we
11:33:27 need to have this designated in order to get the funds
11:33:30 to restore it.
11:33:31 And it was just a jewel for this city and, you know,
11:33:39 you have now solved the technical problems with it,
11:33:41 the leakage, and that's fantastic, and it's too bad
11:33:44 the design was faulty in the first place, but if we
11:33:47 are going to go that far as to fix it, we have to do
11:33:51 whatever we can to restore it, and we need that

11:33:57 designation in order to get the money to do it.
11:33:59 So I think if that's the only thing holding it up, I
11:34:03 hope we will get the mayor's signature on that
11:34:05 document.
11:34:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Dingfelder.
11:34:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You know, this Kiley Park is a
11:34:11 problem, but I have a thought in terms -- it's a
11:34:14 problem because of funding obviously.
11:34:16 I have a thought that really we keep talking about it,
11:34:19 architecture, and maybe it's art, and maybe -- maybe
11:34:24 what we should do is look at it as part of our public
11:34:27 art.
11:34:29 I don't know how much we are spending on this montage
11:34:32 for number 20, and we can speak to that.
11:34:34 But, you know, if we spend a fair amount of money
11:34:37 every year on public art around the city, I think the
11:34:40 whole issue on the Kiley is not that it's a typical
11:34:44 park or typical garden.
11:34:45 Apparently it has some artistic value.
11:34:47 So maybe we can explore the possibility of using our
11:34:50 public art money and not immediately today, but over
11:34:56 the next -- as we enter into the next phases, to help

11:35:00 fund the renovations, or rehabilitation, of Kiley
11:35:05 garden.
11:35:06 Just a thought.
11:35:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
11:35:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Not directed at Kiley Park but
11:35:15 indirectly.
11:35:16 When we start talking about water we have to realize
11:35:18 by the year 2035 the City of Tampa needs more than 28%
11:35:21 more water than what it using now.
11:35:24 It is projected that we grow by about nine citizens a
11:35:28 day between now and 2035.
11:35:31 So what you have today, you may install it, you may
11:35:35 have all the wonderful water you want, but somewhere
11:35:38 down the line you are going to have to make a decision
11:35:40 between a fountain and some individuals in a house
11:35:44 drinking water.
11:35:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It will be reclaimed.
11:35:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm just talking about --
11:35:51 We need to go ahead and move these items.
11:35:52 Again let me compliment Skanska for their involvement
11:35:56 of the MBE portion.
11:35:58 I have really want to highlight that because it is

11:36:00 reflective of the fact of the diversity in our
11:36:03 community.
11:36:04 I think they are going to great length to make sure
11:36:06 that happens.
11:36:06 So I want to applaud them, as well as the
11:36:09 administration, for staying on task with this.
11:36:12 So I just want to thank the administration, in
11:36:14 particular Skanska, for their hard work.
11:36:19 Mr. Graham.
11:36:21 >> I move 16 and 18.
11:36:23 >> Second.
11:36:25 (Motion carried).
11:36:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 22 also wags pulled.
11:36:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 20 -- both of them were pulled, 20
11:36:43 and 22.
11:36:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then we go to 20.
11:36:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I apologize, I was having some
11:36:50 trouble with the backup, too.
11:36:52 How much is this montage on the riverwalk?
11:36:57 Do you know?
11:36:59 >> I believe it's 44,000.
11:37:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't know the gentleman from

11:37:05 Riverview.
11:37:05 I read it in the paper. That's the first time I had
11:37:06 looked at it.
11:37:07 I think it was a little bit more than 44,000.
11:37:09 >> I can tell that you a painting by Bruce Marsh, who
11:37:13 was formerly a volunteer member of our Public Art
11:37:16 Committee, is in our conference room.
11:37:18 It's the one with the water.
11:37:19 He's a great artist.
11:37:21 We are lucky that he's local.
11:37:22 And also did the art work of the Sulphur Springs pool.
11:37:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And this comes out of not our
11:37:27 general fund but our public art fund?
11:37:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is it 44,000?
11:37:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is it number 20?
11:37:44 >> Multiply it by three.
11:37:51 >> Do you want to speak?
11:37:53 Could you come to the --
11:37:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's item 20.
11:38:00 >> Do you all want to defer this item?
11:38:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My question is, is it public art
11:38:09 money?

11:38:10 It's not general fund money?
11:38:13 >> Okay, we can come back to it.
11:38:15 Item 22.
11:38:22 >>MARY MULHERN: I had the opportunity to talk to Karen
11:38:24 Palus and Santiago about this.
11:38:26 And Karen gave me some breakdown.
11:38:33 My question had to do with the fact that these -- and
11:38:40 I probably just need to ask you these questions on the
11:38:42 record, just so I'm clear, because it was kind of
11:38:45 confusing, because I think what's happening here is
11:38:48 with these private contracts, at the same time that we
11:38:55 are hiring contractors to do the work, you are
11:39:00 reorganizing who does what, John, in your department,
11:39:04 so it's very difficult to see.
11:39:05 But I think you made it clear, and now I can't find
11:39:08 that piece of paper, that there are 22 vacancies, and
11:39:22 did those jobs become vacant in fiscal year '07 and
11:39:27 '08?
11:39:31 >>KAREN PALUS: Parks and recreation.
11:39:34 The positions we have identified for the mowing
11:39:36 contract were nine vacant positions from fiscal year
11:39:39 '07, and 13 vacant positions from fiscal year '08, all

11:39:43 of which occurred through attrition.
11:39:48 >> When you say attrition, what I'm trying to find out
11:39:51 is, those people, were those playoffs that happened
11:39:54 because of the budget cuts last year?
11:39:56 >>KAREN PALUS: No, they were not layoffs.
11:39:59 They were through either promotional opportunities,
11:40:02 left for another position, or retirement and such.
11:40:05 >>MARY MULHERN: And then my other -- one of my other
11:40:10 questions was, I'm trying to determine what exactly,
11:40:16 between this and the other contract, some of these
11:40:19 responsibilities, the other contract you are asking us
11:40:24 to approve today, some of the responsibilities for
11:40:30 those individuals, some of them do mowing, or do --
11:40:41 >>> Let me see if I can make this clear.
11:40:43 On the mowing contract -- and this is a completely
11:40:46 separate item -- there are no individuals impacted by
11:40:49 that.
11:40:52 By what we are trying to do as far as restructuring
11:40:55 our operations.
11:40:55 The janitorial contracts, those particular positions
11:41:01 that are identified as far as 26 positions, within our
11:41:05 department, that have X amount of folks in there is a

11:41:10 service attendant, a classification, so therefore that
11:41:13 classification service also does mowing.
11:41:16 There's mowing -- folks that are doing mowing, folks
11:41:21 that are doing janitorial.
11:41:22 Because of the way the system works it's last in first
11:41:25 out on the seniority list so an individual essentially
11:41:28 doing janitorial now may not be the one that is
11:41:31 actually leave our system, they will be retooled to do
11:41:33 other things.
11:41:35 It may be folks doing mowing because the
11:41:37 classifications are the same.
11:41:38 If I can make that Clare.
11:41:39 >>MARY MULHERN: I know you are doing your best and I
11:41:43 know it's because the positions, it's never going to
11:41:46 be that clear.
11:41:47 But it seems to me that some of those people that we
11:41:51 are going to lay off in those positions may have been
11:41:58 providing some of this mowing work.
11:41:59 >>> Very well could be.
11:42:01 We don't know until it goes through human resources,
11:42:05 but it is based on seniority and the classifications
11:42:08 systems, that because they are not considered -- we

11:42:11 don't have janitorial service attendants and we don't
11:42:13 have our ground maintenance service attendants.
11:42:16 They are both service attendants.
11:42:18 So whether they are doing either job classifications,
11:42:20 it's the same title, again based on the seniority
11:42:25 list.
11:42:25 There may be folks that are currently mowing or doing
11:42:28 other duties in our system that would potentially be
11:42:31 on that list.
11:42:37 >>MARY MULHERN: And so I think it's hard for me to
11:42:39 verbalize this.
11:42:40 You are doing a better job.
11:42:41 But it does sound like it's possible that some of the
11:42:47 work -- some of the work that we are contracting for,
11:42:52 people who are going to be laid off, impacted, might
11:42:56 have provided some of these services, is what I am
11:42:59 trying to say.
11:43:04 I feel like if that needs to be reflected, we need to
11:43:08 think about this contract, and I know there's not
11:43:10 going to be a way to figure out the dollar amount,
11:43:15 because it's so difficult to account for what those
11:43:18 service attendants have been doing, this may be

11:43:21 helping pay for this contract, money we are paying
11:43:27 here may also be going toward replacing those people
11:43:31 that would be laid off if we approve the other
11:43:34 contract.
11:43:39 I'm not sure.
11:43:40 I just think because there's no way to really tell.
11:43:42 And I guess what I'm arriving at is it's really
11:43:46 difficult to quantify the kind of savings you are
11:43:48 going to have when you privatize the duties that you
11:43:57 are laying off some of the people that do that but do
11:43:59 other things.
11:44:00 I think when we look at these numbers we need to
11:44:02 realize that, you know, it's difficult to say exactly
11:44:06 how much.
11:44:09 >>> Let me see if I can make this clear.
11:44:11 This may be the easiest way.
11:44:14 We have a total number of 114 position that is we
11:44:16 would potentially end up with if both of these
11:44:19 contracts -- mowing, stand alone on its own and
11:44:23 janitorial standing alone.
11:44:25 There's 114 staff.
11:44:26 Those 114 staff whether they were doing janitorial

11:44:29 services for people or whether doing ground
11:44:32 maintenance, parks maintenance, those folks could be
11:44:34 retooled and redistributed within our system to do all
11:44:37 of the things that we still need to accomplish within
11:44:39 the system, with the mowing contract and with the
11:44:43 janitorial contract.
11:44:44 But that's the situation.
11:44:46 Because of that same title, I can't tell you I'm going
11:44:53 to lose 26 janitorial-only staff, or mowing.
11:44:56 I just don't know.
11:44:57 I don't have that seniority list to be able to tell
11:44:59 you that and that runs through our resource
11:45:02 department.
11:45:03 >>MARY MULHERN: And that's why I am saying we need to
11:45:07 be aware of that because we don't know what the actual
11:45:09 cost savings will be because it's very difficult to
11:45:11 quantify.
11:45:12 >>> We have the cost savings based on the mowing, if
11:45:14 you want to talk strictly to the mowing contract and
11:45:17 that's way shared with you, just a little over
11:45:19 $700,000 that will be retooled into our operations.
11:45:22 It's a reallocation.

11:45:24 It's not a savings.
11:45:25 It allows to us do the same.
11:45:27 We are not currently getting to because we are
11:45:28 spending all of our time trying to mow.
11:45:31 And we need to be getting safety checks and
11:45:35 playgrounds, getting out on the -- to do all the parks
11:45:39 maintenance areas that we get to.
11:45:41 But we are on a reactionary mode.
11:45:43 We want to be proactive, make sure that by doing this
11:45:49 benchmark and providing that mowing service which is
11:45:51 improving in our industry, then we can get back to the
11:45:56 business of making sure the parks end up being our
11:45:59 maintenance, our specialties, the beautification
11:46:02 projects are still -- all of those things are
11:46:04 important, and we need to make sure that happens as we
11:46:08 move forward with this.
11:46:15 This is something we are doing as a business move, the
11:46:19 things we are not getting to currently.
11:46:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
11:46:23 I understand that.
11:46:23 And I know you are stretched because you are having
11:46:25 to --

11:46:26 Day okay, we are going to have to move.
11:46:28 It's 10 minutes to 12 and I reallied want to conclude
11:46:32 the morning portion and we still have item 85, 86, and
11:46:36 I just have small questions.
11:46:37 Councilman Miranda.
11:46:40 >>MARY MULHERN: One more question.
11:46:43 I think I should be able to ask.
11:46:45 And this is going to probably lead to more
11:46:53 explanation.
11:46:53 But when we talked about this, you kept referring --
11:46:56 you and Santiago kept talking about people having to
11:46:59 do overtime.
11:47:00 And that was included in the hours.
11:47:03 And I think that's another thing I just think should
11:47:07 be pointed out, that when we are looking at savings,
11:47:10 and we are talking about cutting overtime hours, but
11:47:14 then we are going to hire new people to do them, that
11:47:18 needs to be accounted for because that's something
11:47:20 that you should be able to do within the employees
11:47:26 that you have, instead of, you know, laying -- people
11:47:30 being layed -- laid off and then contracting.
11:47:35 They are doing the mowing contract.

11:47:36 It allows to reduce that overtime so they can
11:47:39 reallocate our staff, but on the weekend coverage, we
11:47:42 have done a lot of things to restructure to be able to
11:47:45 accomplish our total responsibilities within the park
11:47:47 system, to be at a higher level of customer service
11:47:50 and have a higher level of which we strive for.
11:47:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Right, but if you have all those
11:47:56 overtime hours, you can instead have them paying at
11:48:00 least part-time people.
11:48:01 I mean, those are efficiencies that should be worked
11:48:04 out within the department before we end up laying
11:48:06 people off.
11:48:11 That's all wanted to -- and I appreciate you trying to
11:48:15 sort this all out for me.
11:48:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:48:21 I think what Ms. Palus is saying and the accounting
11:48:24 area was first in last how the, last in first out,
11:48:28 it's an accounting LIFO-FIFO.
11:48:32 Buff specifically she mentioned the more contract,
11:48:35 there was seven, I mean nine that were through
11:48:38 attrition, not fired, am I correct?
11:48:41 In '07.

11:48:42 And 13 in '08 meaning there's a total of 22 total
11:48:45 operational vacancies within that area.
11:48:48 She doesn't know what categories are in.
11:48:50 They are all the same title, but she doesn't know
11:48:53 because human relations from what I gather from the
11:48:56 conversation is the one that's going to say who was
11:48:58 the first one in, and who was the last one in.
11:49:01 So I would assume that under seniority, which is the
11:49:06 best way of doing things, that those individuals would
11:49:09 first be the ones that would stay.
11:49:11 Am I correct?
11:49:12 >>> As far as seniority goes?
11:49:14 Yes.
11:49:14 Seniority, they have the highest seniority would stay.
11:49:19 Now this is not related to the -- it's only related to
11:49:22 the janitorial.
11:49:25 Not related to the mowing.
11:49:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
11:49:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Mulhern, I think -- Ms. Palus
11:49:33 and I suggested about this yesterday and Santiago
11:49:36 Corrada.
11:49:36 So I have a pretty good understanding but Ms. Mulhern

11:49:41 brings up some pretty good points.
11:49:43 This is inextricably intertwined.
11:49:45 It not easy.
11:49:46 Karen, do you this 60, 70 hours a week so you have
11:49:50 your hands around it.
11:49:51 But for council, you know, we are trying to get our
11:49:53 hands around it.
11:49:54 And it's not a simple thing.
11:49:58 Your department has undergone a lot of changes.
11:50:00 And there's two big ones on this agenda today.
11:50:05 What I would like to do, I have a problem voting for
11:50:07 this, number 22, because what I would like to do is
11:50:11 see how we vote on item 86, because -- and when we get
11:50:16 to 86 I'll explain a little more where I am coming
11:50:18 from.
11:50:19 But I would just like to us just defer 22 until after
11:50:23 we do 86.
11:50:24 And then it will be more apparent when we get to 86
11:50:28 this afternoon as to why I say that.
11:50:30 But that would be my motion.
11:50:32 I would like to defer 22 until this afternoon after we
11:50:34 do number 86.

11:50:36 It could go a lot smooth sailing.
11:50:38 It might be a little bumpy. But we'll see.
11:50:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me second that motion and get
11:50:43 moving.
11:50:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
11:50:47 [ Laughter ]
11:50:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I have a motion by councilman
11:50:50 Dingfelder to add this to 85 and 86 this arch, second
11:50:54 by councilman Miranda.
11:50:55 (Motion carried).
11:50:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, do the next two?
11:51:04 If I may finish this one here I think I can explain.
11:51:11 In my committee it was items 29 and 39.
11:51:15 29 and 39.
11:51:17 On item 39 I think said say I sag take the pipe out
11:51:28 and that's what that 3,145,000.
11:51:31 We can save 178,000 in taxes that would be to the
11:51:34 advantage of all the citizens of the City of Tampa,
11:51:37 and that's what 39 is about.
11:51:39 It doesn't read that way but I remember what was said.
11:51:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, that wasn't my question, though.
11:51:45 I understood that.

11:51:46 My question was to the WMBE portion of the contract,
11:51:50 where again they give a percentage but they don't
11:51:53 break out.
11:51:54 And so you have the ethnicity as well as the --
11:52:03 councilman Mulhern wanted to know some of the
11:52:06 companies.
11:52:06 So that's the issue with you me.
11:52:11 So, yes, sir.
11:52:12 >>> Dave Vaughan, contract administration.
11:52:15 First let me answer your question back on Kiley.
11:52:17 100% of minority participation on that is scheduled
11:52:21 for African-American.
11:52:21 I'm not sure we answered your question then.
11:52:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What about Hispanics?
11:52:27 >>> 100% of minority participation is
11:52:29 African-American.
11:52:30 On item number 24, which is the bidding of the
11:52:33 renovations to the Ballast Point pier, there is a 30%
11:52:37 participation projected, and that is all to a Hispanic
11:52:41 firm for that project.
11:52:44 Think what happened on this project is the DMI form
11:52:46 was not attached to the doc agenda.

11:52:48 It got omitted.
11:52:50 I have copies that I can submit them to the clerk
11:52:52 which would answer that question.
11:52:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
11:52:56 >>> On item number 29, which is an amendment to an
11:52:58 existing agreement to CH2M Hill, this is actually a
11:53:02 ten-year-old agreement.
11:53:04 And they were selected at that time, specific
11:53:12 activities related to water issues, and in the course
11:53:21 of their selection the makeup of the team was part of
11:53:22 the decision process that selected them.
11:53:25 However, the nature of this work is such that the subs
11:53:29 they are using are not minority subs.
11:53:31 And this agreement does not have that, in that
11:53:36 agreement.
11:53:36 Item number 39, which is the change order to the 12th
11:53:47 Street force main project is exactly as councilman
11:53:51 Miranda described it.
11:53:52 It is taking out the cost of the pipe so that we buy
11:53:55 it direct, and since it is involving vendors that were
11:53:58 already projected in the overall work, it does not --
11:54:03 if way want to be sneaky, we raised the minority

11:54:06 participation but the reality is the total cost of the
11:54:09 project is staying the same, and so the participation
11:54:12 that we talked to you about last week, which was 9.4%,
11:54:15 which is over and above the 6% that was projected by
11:54:22 staff and the office are exceeding that.
11:54:28 I hope that was clear.
11:54:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the only issue, you will put the
11:54:31 information in your backup material, you are not doing
11:54:33 that and that's the request of council, including if
11:54:36 you don't put it there, I am going to put it every --
11:54:39 but pull it every time.
11:54:41 And Skanska is working hard to make sure that when
11:54:45 contracts are awarded that is reflective of the
11:54:49 diversity of this community, and that's what I look
11:54:51 for.
11:54:52 I look for the diversity reflection in the contract
11:54:54 and I like to have that information.
11:54:55 Okay?
11:54:56 Any other questions?
11:54:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to follow up on that.
11:54:59 I guess on number 29, CH2M Hill, were you saying that
11:55:06 they are actually doing the work?

11:55:07 It's not going to be subcontracted?
11:55:10 >>> There are a couple of subcontractors involved.
11:55:13 They are not minority firms.
11:55:15 And they are fairly specialized services.
11:55:18 They include -- let's see, what are they doing?
11:55:23 They are doing their water resource, and also a
11:55:28 laboratory analytical service that is fairly
11:55:30 specialized:
11:55:32 >> I haven't been hearing a lot about --
11:55:42 >>> In fact Ballast Point pier, 30% is a Hispanic.
11:55:47 >> Oh, good.
11:55:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Some I have to dig a little harder or
11:55:52 go to the people who got it and then I find out but I
11:55:55 want it on the record.
11:55:56 It not that I don't know the answers.
11:55:58 Sometimes I know the answers.
11:55:59 Second I don't know the answers because you haven't
11:56:02 provided it.
11:56:02 But it's important that you provide it when we ask for
11:56:05 it.
11:56:05 That's my rationale for that.
11:56:06 And we can move items 24.

11:56:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
11:56:12 >> Second.
11:56:12 (Motion carried).
11:56:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:56:24 29 and 39.
11:56:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Right.
11:56:27 Yes, sir.
11:56:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do I have a second?
11:56:29 >> Second.
11:56:29 (Motion carried).
11:56:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Now we go back to item 20, I believe.
11:56:37 Item 20.
11:56:42 >>> Robin Nigh, programs division.
11:56:44 The cost, I believe, is the question of the mural is
11:56:47 150,000.
11:56:51 That includes everything from the design and
11:56:52 commission to the fabrication and installation.
11:57:02 Nine feet by 40 feet.
11:57:04 It's a substantial size.
11:57:06 It's actually going to be installed into part of a
11:57:07 wall that's going to be fabricated as the gateway into
11:57:14 the south entrance of the riverwalk.

11:57:17 >>MARY MULHERN: What's the media?
11:57:20 >>> The media is interesting.
11:57:21 The media, the artist is starting out with an initial
11:57:25 photograph and co-lodging it and fabricated onto
11:57:31 enamel.
11:57:32 And then affixed to aluminum panels so it will be --
11:57:37 maintenance should be extremely low.
11:57:38 It should last for a very, very long time and Romaine
11:57:41 kind of an I cop I can gateway into the riverwalk.
11:57:50 >> Mr. Dingfelder is not here.
11:57:55 I am going to move that we approve item 20.
11:57:59 >> Second.
11:58:05 >> Motion to approve item 20.
11:58:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion and second.
11:58:08 (Motion carried)
11:58:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 70 also was pulled.
11:58:24 Item 70.
11:58:26 Also item 83.
11:58:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't know who pulled 70.
11:58:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Councilman Dingfelder, I believe.
11:58:35 >> He's not here.
11:58:36 I guess illumination of the streets, about 10 inches

11:58:40 by 3 feet or something.
11:58:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll come back to that.
11:58:43 Item 83.
11:58:44 I think everybody was waiting for me to come in on
11:58:47 will 3.
11:58:48 Is that right?
11:58:54 Item 83.
11:58:55 Second reading on the rules.
11:59:02 >> We were short of a full quorum.
11:59:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Number 83.
11:59:07 Do we need to read that?
11:59:08 >> I move it.
11:59:10 I would like to move a resolution amending the rules
11:59:12 of procedure rule 3 B-2 governing the order of
11:59:15 business and rule 5, conduct of business of the
11:59:18 meetings. City Council, City of Tampa, providing an
11:59:20 effective date.
11:59:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Got a second?
11:59:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
11:59:25 (Motion carried)
11:59:27 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miller and Dingfelder
11:59:34 voting no.

11:59:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 70.
11:59:42 Item 70 you pulled, John.
11:59:46 We'll take up item 85 and 86 the first thing after
11:59:49 lunch.
11:59:55 >>> If there were questions on item 70 Mr. Lee will
11:59:58 come back after lunch.
12:00:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I will really not.
12:00:05 I know what these things are.
12:00:09 The budget item I would like to hold off until we deal
12:00:11 with item 80, 86.
12:00:18 If you will give me that deference.
12:00:22 85 is unrelated.
12:00:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Just 86.
12:00:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have a motion.
12:00:30 All in favor?
12:00:31 Opposes?
12:00:33 (Motion carried).
12:00:33 We'll take up those two items which is I think 22 and
12:00:38 70 after the lunch, we'll take up 85 and 86.
12:00:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
12:00:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 22 is the one we talked about.
12:00:47 He asked for that, too.

12:00:50 We will stand in recess until 1:30.
12:00:56 We stand in recess until 1:30.
12:00:58 (City Council recess)

The preceding represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
The original of this file was produced in all capital
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third party edits and software compatibility issues.
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proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.

Tampa City Council
Thursday, June 26, 2008
1:30 p.m. session

The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.

[Sounding gavel]
13:42:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: City Council will now come to order.
13:42:55 I believe we left off on, we need to dispose of -- I'm
13:43:02 sorry, roll call.
13:43:04 Thank you.
13:43:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
13:43:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:43:08 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
13:43:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
13:43:15 We left off, and we had city attorney to go out to do

13:43:21 one item.
13:43:22 Are we ready to move forward?
13:43:24 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes, I have a revised ordinance that
13:43:29 reflected the conditions that you requested.
13:43:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And we are talking about 91.
13:43:38 We have to hold it.
13:43:39 Then we'll take up item 85.
13:43:41 Item 85.
13:43:45 The charter language, I guess it is.
13:43:47 Can we get someone from legal to address that?
13:43:50 >>> I thought you had already done that one.
13:44:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I thought we need a vote of the
13:44:02 full council.
13:44:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And staff did a presentation, then
13:44:07 we decided to wait for you.
13:44:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm here.
13:44:09 >> We just need vote.
13:44:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move the ordinance for first
13:44:15 reading as stated.
13:44:17 An ordinance relating to the government of the city of
13:44:20 Tampa, Florida submitting to the electorates a
13:44:23 proposed amendment to the revised charter of the City

13:44:25 of Tampa, as amended regarding charter section 2.4
13:44:32 staff particularly regarding City Council attorney
13:44:34 providing for referendum, providing an effective date.
13:44:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
13:44:38 (Motion carried).
13:44:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Before you vote I am not going to
13:44:44 support the motion and the fact that it got that work
13:44:46 comparable.
13:44:47 Comparable to what?
13:44:48 The public doesn't know what we are comparing it to.
13:44:51 And I just feel very strongly that they should be told
13:44:55 it's comparable to an assistant city attorney, CPA
13:44:57 comparable to city attorney, comparable to what, but I
13:45:02 understand what we are trying to accomplish.
13:45:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor let it be known by Aye.
13:45:06 Opposes?
13:45:08 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda voting no.
13:45:10 The second reading of the ordinance will be held July
13:45:14 17th at 9:30 a.m.
13:45:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 91.
13:45:24 We have a full council now.
13:45:25 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.

13:45:27 I have presented an ordinance with the changes
13:45:31 suggested by City Council.
13:45:32 >> Will it be first reading?
13:45:32 >> No, it'll be second reading.
13:45:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Same title?
13:45:40 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes, same title.
13:45:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move an ordinance for second
13:45:45 reading, an ordinance making lawful the conditional
13:45:48 sale of beverages containing alcohol of more than 1%
13:45:50 by weight and not more than 14% by weight and wines
13:45:52 regardless of alcoholic content beer and wine 2(COP)
13:45:55 for consumption on premises and in sealed containers
13:45:58 for consumption off premises at or from that certain
13:46:01 lot, plot or tract of land located at 3924 West Spruce
13:46:03 Street, Tampa, Florida as more particularly described
13:46:06 in section 2 hereof waiving certain restrictions as to
13:46:09 distance based upon certain findings, imposing certain
13:46:12 conditions, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
13:46:16 conflict, providing an effective date, and I
13:46:17 appreciate the hard work on the part of staff as well
13:46:19 as all the parties involved in trying to come up with
13:46:21 a reasonable compromise.

13:46:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
13:46:25 Record your vote, please.
13:46:38 I pushed the wrong button.
13:46:40 I voted no.
13:46:41 Can you correct that in the record?
13:46:43 >> Move we revote.
13:46:51 >> Second.
13:46:51 (Motion carried)
13:46:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote, please.
13:47:05 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miller and Scott
13:47:08 voting no.
13:47:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 86.
13:47:17 >> James Buckner, director of technology innovation
13:47:26 and chairman of the efficiency and effectiveness task
13:47:29 force.
13:47:29 We bring for your consideration this afternoon a
13:47:31 contract for janitorial services to support several
13:47:34 departments here in the city. This is an idea that
13:47:36 came forward from the efficiency and effectiveness
13:47:39 task force.
13:47:40 As you remember, we are actively pursuing about eleven
13:47:43 different ideas for cost savings.

13:47:45 So far we have implemented four of those ideas and are
13:47:49 already saving money in those four areas.
13:47:51 We are now pushing hard on six of the remaining seven
13:47:55 ideas in that list.
13:47:56 The seventh idea you heard a little about this
13:47:59 morning, involved the potential consolidation and
13:48:02 privatization of security services for certain
13:48:06 facilities here in the city.
13:48:08 Earlier this month we opened proposals from a number
13:48:11 of vendors who wanted to provide that type of security
13:48:13 service for the city.
13:48:15 As we looked at the best of those proposals, we found
13:48:18 that even though there was some modest savings
13:48:23 afforded by the contract versus continuing the work
13:48:26 in-house with city employees, we felt that there was
13:48:30 some concern regarding the overall long-term
13:48:32 sustainability of the contract.
13:48:35 So we made a business decision, and we have chosen not
13:48:38 to pursue that security contract at this point in
13:48:41 time.
13:48:42 As we opened proposals, however, for the janitorial
13:48:45 services contract, we found a different set of

13:48:48 circumstances entirely.
13:48:50 We found that the principal proposer that we would
13:48:54 select offers the potential of a fairly significant
13:48:57 amount of annual recurring savings, and also from the
13:49:01 proposal we feel that there is a high probability of
13:49:05 success for that contract.
13:49:08 So I would like to ask Greg Spearman to come forward
13:49:11 and give you a little more detail regarding the
13:49:13 contract and why we feel we should move forward with
13:49:15 it.
13:49:18 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Director of purchasing.
13:49:21 What I would like to do is give you a brief overview
13:49:23 of the procurement process regarding the janitorial
13:49:26 services that you have before you on the agenda this
13:49:30 afternoon.
13:49:31 The request for proposals broadcast on May 8th.
13:49:34 The RFP was broadcast to approximately 378 firms, and
13:49:40 through the city's automated system demand star.
13:49:43 37 firms downloaded the programs from the demand star
13:49:47 system.
13:49:47 We had a pre-proposal conference on May 19th, and
13:49:52 we have mandatory site visits between May 19th and

13:49:55 May 23rd.
13:49:56 The reason for the mandatory site visit, is because we
13:49:58 wanted all interested companies to know exactly what
13:50:01 they were getting into, to compare the scope of work
13:50:03 with the location, and touch the staff answer
13:50:11 questions.
13:50:12 There were 14 companies at the appraise proposal
13:50:15 conference.
13:50:18 Scheduled for June 3rd at 11 a.m.
13:50:21 And we received five proposals and seven no bids.
13:50:25 The criteria that was used to make the recommendation
13:50:28 included the cost and financial benefit to the city,
13:50:32 the firm's experience and qualifications, personnel,
13:50:37 which included expense of the company, response of the
13:50:41 scope of the services and understanding of the work to
13:50:45 be done by the city and the program which included
13:50:49 training, uniform, benefits to employees.
13:50:52 The proposal before you this afternoon as presented by
13:50:57 United Services Group.
13:50:58 They have demonstrated a superior knowledge in terms
13:51:01 of the City of Tampa, also in the area of employee
13:51:06 recruitment, retention, transition, plans, equipment,

13:51:10 product knowledge, service knowledge, and they have a
13:51:13 list of extensive references throughout the country.
13:51:16 And we checked most of those references and those
13:51:20 references gave them a superior rating.
13:51:22 USG was the highest ranked company.
13:51:27 A ranking of 89 out of 100 possible points, and a copy
13:51:33 of that ranking is in your agenda package.
13:51:35 Next highest proposals are a company by the name of
13:51:39 cleaning services.
13:51:40 Their proposal cost the city 2.3 million.
13:51:43 We feel that the proposal on the table before you is
13:51:46 the best presented by the city and we would be happy
13:51:49 to address any questions you have from this point on.
13:51:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
13:51:57 This is not direct but tangential.
13:52:00 When someone leaves the employ of the city, what
13:52:02 provisions does the city make for them to take their
13:52:06 health insurance that they were able to participate in
13:52:09 as a city employee with them?
13:52:11 >>> I'm not sure that I can answer that.
13:52:18 If Emily is available she can probably talk about
13:52:20 that.

13:52:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Because a good part of the
13:52:25 conversation about this is to not look narrowly at
13:52:28 this particular cost savings but to look more broadly
13:52:30 at the implications on the lives of city employees who
13:52:34 will be losing their positions.
13:52:36 And health insurance is a very significant part of the
13:52:39 consideration.
13:52:40 One of the reasons that people as you know work for
13:52:42 the city is for the security theoretically, and for
13:52:47 the city insurance.
13:52:51 So could I repeat my question?
13:52:52 I don't know if you had a chance to hear.
13:52:54 When someone leaves the employ of the city, what
13:52:57 provisions are there for them to take their insurance
13:52:59 with them?
13:53:00 Or how does that work?
13:53:03 >>> Director of human resources.
13:53:06 Thank you for the opportunity to take your questions.
13:53:09 When an employee leaves the city's employment, they
13:53:13 have by federal law the right to opt for cobra
13:53:16 benefits, where they can, within 60 days of having
13:53:20 left the city, they can opt to take the city's

13:53:25 insurance benefit for up to 18 months.
13:53:27 >> And they would then assume the total investment in
13:53:31 that?
13:53:32 >>> The cost of the insurance, right.
13:53:34 >> And how much is that for an employee?
13:53:36 >>> I don't have those numbers with me today.
13:53:38 >> Ballpark for an employee?
13:53:43 >>> I would like to be able to verify those numbers
13:53:45 and I would be happy to do that rather than guess at
13:53:47 them.
13:53:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: A couple of questions, either Greg
13:53:55 or Jim.
13:53:59 Greg, you might be familiar because you have been here
13:54:03 a little longer.
13:54:05 David McCary, in regard to the garbage contract,
13:54:11 appears to me from what I have heard and what I have
13:54:12 seen recently that the city has gone through this
13:54:15 cycle a couple of times in regard to garbage.
13:54:18 >> Solid waste.
13:54:21 >>> Solid waste, thank you.
13:54:23 I have been politically corrected.
13:54:24 In regard to solid waste.

13:54:26 And we privatize.
13:54:27 The most we privatize -- and Charlie, you might have
13:54:29 been here on council.
13:54:30 We privatized back in the 80s, a good portion of
13:54:35 solid waste.
13:54:36 And then over the years, we brought it back in, and
13:54:38 most recently, I remember specifically when David
13:54:41 McCary was here the private sector had a good chunk
13:54:46 of residential collection I think up on the north end,
13:54:49 and then they held us over the fire and said, oh, we
13:54:52 are going to double the rate of your contract, and
13:54:56 David stood up to them and said, forget about it,
13:54:59 we'll just bring it back in and do it cheaper because
13:55:01 we can.
13:55:05 Do you have any recollection of that, either one of
13:55:07 you?
13:55:08 Charlie is going to help us.
13:55:11 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Director of purchasing.
13:55:12 I personally don't.
13:55:16 With regard to the history that dates back to the
13:55:19 80s, I'm sorry I can't --
13:55:20 >> How about this recent episode with David McCary?

13:55:26 >> I do remember that but I don't want to us get that
13:55:29 confused with the janitorial contract.
13:55:31 We do have specific provisions in this contract that
13:55:34 allows us to hold those prices firm, and we do have
13:55:41 provisions in the contract that requires the provider
13:55:45 to document and come to us and provide any potential
13:55:48 cost increases over that automatically assessed and
13:55:52 passed onto the city.
13:55:53 >> But after a couple of years those provisions wear
13:55:56 out, the contract is probably a two to three-year
13:55:59 contract with the incremental bumps that most of our
13:56:02 contracts have.
13:56:03 I understand that.
13:56:03 My point is specifically that -- and we have seen this
13:56:08 all across the country that a lot of times government
13:56:10 thinks they are being real smart and save money and
13:56:15 privatize but maybe when the vendor feels they have
13:56:17 got you over the barrel then the prices start creeping
13:56:19 up, and at that point you don't have any staff
13:56:21 anymore.
13:56:22 And the last thing a government wants to do is start
13:56:24 building their staff over again.

13:56:26 But anyway, that's one thing.
13:56:28 And Charlie, I do want to hear from you when I give up
13:56:30 the floor on that, if you wish.
13:56:33 The other thing, Greg, as related to specifically to
13:56:36 this vendor, is I've read through the entire package
13:56:41 that they submitted, but it's no where in that package
13:56:46 does it say how much per hour.
13:56:50 I know that our chairman expressed in the newspaper,
13:56:52 he said, well, maybe if they are willing to hire our
13:56:55 people it might not be so bad.
13:56:56 But a our people from what I understand make between
13:57:01 12, 13, $14 an hour depending on how long they have
13:57:04 been here, that sort of thing.
13:57:05 You and I had a conversation the other day, I asked
13:57:08 you how much per hour, and I think you said what?
13:57:11 >>> It's starting at $9.50 per hour.
13:57:14 But we don't know the hourly rate to all of the
13:57:18 employees.
13:57:18 We have not asked them for that information.
13:57:20 But we do know that the starting is 9.50.
13:57:23 >> So we'll operate in that ballpark, that's with no
13:57:30 health care benefits, they make 9.50 an hour.

13:57:34 Then in their packet they mention they are willing to
13:57:36 let these people sign off on their health care plan,
13:57:40 either 195 for a single person a month, or $300 for a
13:57:45 family a month.
13:57:47 Okay.
13:57:48 Doing a little bit of math, okay, that $300 an hour if
13:57:51 you worked 40 hour week, 160 hours a month and divide
13:57:56 that out by $300 it comes out ton around $2 an hour.
13:58:02 So for that person, they are going to go over to the
13:58:05 private sector, but they are going to leave us paying
13:58:07 $14 an hour which is hardly a livable wage, then they
13:58:10 are going to go over to the private sector and make
13:58:12 $9.50 an hour, hopefully they are going to get health
13:58:15 insurance to cover their dependents, and now they are
13:58:18 down to 7.50 an hour.
13:58:20 Can you dispute any of that?
13:58:23 >>> Without having discussed the details of the
13:58:26 contract it's really hard to say what would happen if
13:58:29 city employees were hired.
13:58:31 But we do have a commitment in the contract, but the
13:58:35 details of what the health benefits are, and if we
13:58:39 have no idea.

13:58:40 >> Okay.
13:58:41 But this company, United Services Group, is based out
13:58:44 of St. Petersburg.
13:58:45 I did see that they have a lot of Tampa contracts.
13:58:47 But they are a St. Pete company.
13:58:50 But I also noticed it was rather unusual, we had a
13:58:53 minority request in that bid, is that correct?
13:58:56 >>> We typically put that in all our bids, right.
13:58:59 >> And I saw the response, that their minority vendor
13:59:03 is based out of Atlanta.
13:59:05 And I thought that was rather unusual.
13:59:06 >>> Sometimes they have local companies that they can
13:59:11 use to subcontract with, and sometimes they don't.
13:59:15 I don't know what the specific intents of how they
13:59:19 will be addressing that locally but that's something
13:59:21 we will be checking out within the minority business
13:59:23 development office.
13:59:24 >> Do you have any idea how much the minority vendor
13:59:27 is going to be paying?
13:59:28 >>> Offhand I don't have that information.
13:59:31 But we can get that.
13:59:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda.

13:59:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: For the record, in the 80s, I was
13:59:37 in compile during that period of time.
13:59:40 I came back in '95.
13:59:42 But also for the record, I believe that what happened,
13:59:47 how the city started to break up the garbage, or
13:59:54 public waste, was lobbying through efforts of big
13:59:58 different organizations, they convinced somebody in
14:00:01 the legislative act up there in Tallahassee that if
14:00:05 somebody matched your number, they had to be let into
14:00:07 the process.
14:00:08 Something like that.
14:00:09 I forget exactly how the wording was.
14:00:11 That happened.
14:00:14 And when I was here in the '90s, and that's how they
14:00:19 came in, late 90s.
14:00:20 It was a company out of Orlando, as I recall.
14:00:23 So when that happened they came in.
14:00:24 And then when they tried to hold us hostage we did the
14:00:29 right thing.
14:00:30 It was no longer comparable.
14:00:31 We were less than they were.
14:00:33 Therefore we had the right to take it over.

14:00:34 I think that's what happened but I'm not sure.
14:00:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
14:00:39 I appreciate it.
14:00:41 >>MARY MULHERN: That was one of many things I was
14:00:46 going to mention.
14:00:47 But I think that's a regular process that a lot of
14:00:50 people use right now.
14:00:51 The county uses that where they actually had at times,
14:00:55 I don't know if they always do, but they boa -- would
14:00:58 allow the inside department or union to give a
14:01:02 competitive bid.
14:01:04 And I think that's one of the biggest oppositions I
14:01:07 have to this, and to the other -- that other contract
14:01:13 that we talked about earlier, and that's coming back.
14:01:16 I know the union in this situation didn't get any
14:01:23 notice and hasn't had any opportunity to even discuss
14:01:25 the possibility of having -- making concessions or any
14:01:30 kind of discussion about how they could keep any of
14:01:34 this work here.
14:01:35 And I just don't think that's the way that we should
14:01:39 be doing business with our long-time employees here,
14:01:43 that they don't even have the opportunity to do that,

14:01:49 when we see them and hear them come up and tell us
14:01:52 what kind of position they are going to be in when
14:01:55 they -- if they do lose these jobs.
14:01:57 It makes it even more clear.
14:01:58 I think it's obvious from what Mr. Dingfelder was
14:02:01 outlining, first of all, there is no indication that
14:02:07 this company is going to provide health care benefits,
14:02:13 provide any of the costs.
14:02:14 They may have health care, but as far as we know,
14:02:17 people will have to pay that out of pocket.
14:02:19 So in addition to, you know, who knows if our people
14:02:25 are necessarily going to be hired by these people.
14:02:28 And I think that's just something that's probably not
14:02:30 going to happen.
14:02:35 And this is what I found difficult.
14:02:38 I know that Karen Palus tried to show me how the
14:02:42 moving around of these responsibilities between people
14:02:48 in her department.
14:02:49 I think it's difficult to quantify that.
14:02:51 And I'm not convinced that it has been or can be
14:02:54 quantified until after the fact.
14:02:57 And I think that -- and after years, too, because I

14:03:04 think that, you know, when you first give a bid, they
14:03:07 always give you a low bid.
14:03:09 And then it going to end up costing more in the end.
14:03:12 I didn't see in that contract.
14:03:15 I read through the mowing one and it certainly doesn't
14:03:19 say that in there, that there's going to be any
14:03:22 restrictions but, you know, the contract will be up
14:03:26 for renewal, and they can ask for more when that comes
14:03:29 up.
14:03:30 But if it's in this contract I would like to see where
14:03:34 it is.
14:03:35 >>> We can bring that up for you, councilman Mulhern.
14:03:39 Let me bring up the union involvement.
14:03:41 When we initiated phase two of the efficiency and
14:03:44 effectiveness review, we did invite to become a member
14:03:48 of our committee Martha Stevens who represent it is
14:03:50 union, so she was there, and invited to attend all of
14:03:54 those meetings, including those meetings that dealt
14:03:56 with this particular initiative.
14:03:58 So there was some involvement in terms of knowledge
14:04:02 with regard to what the initiatives were.
14:04:05 We invited her and asked her to be a member of the

14:04:07 task force.
14:04:08 I believe she made both of those meetings.
14:04:10 The other point is that we would allow the contractor
14:04:13 to speak directly with employees, and for those
14:04:19 discussions to happen at that level, so if they could
14:04:22 reach mutual agreement, for the contract and for the
14:04:26 city employees.
14:04:29 >>MARY MULHERN: So would you allow that but it doesn't
14:04:31 necessarily --
14:04:32 >>> Does not require --
14:04:34 >>MARY MULHERN: They may not even --
14:04:38 >>> From my discussion was the contract, it appears
14:04:42 that he's willing to consider hiring some of our
14:04:45 employees.
14:04:45 The ultimate decision would rest with the contractor.
14:04:49 >>> We have a representative of the company here with
14:04:51 us if you want to ask him any questions.
14:04:59 >>> Good afternoon.
14:05:00 Jeff Chapman, the vice-president of United Services
14:05:04 Group, and would be happy to answer any and all
14:05:07 questions that I can.
14:05:08 >>MARY MULHERN: I think our questions were about the

14:05:11 pay scale.
14:05:14 >>> It starts at 9.50.
14:05:16 The benefits package that we receive as far as the
14:05:18 contract with the City of Tampa is concerned, does not
14:05:22 include any health insurance, so therefore it was not
14:05:26 included as part of the program.
14:05:34 As far as your employees are concerned, we have a
14:05:36 process that we go through to hire every one of our
14:05:39 employees, and in that recruiting plan they would all
14:05:41 be pre-screened and drug tested and also drug tested
14:05:47 afterwards, there's a seven year background check,
14:05:49 because some of the areas that you took us to in the
14:05:52 walk-through we're substantive and in that sensitive
14:05:57 we have to be sensitive to know who is going to be in
14:05:59 those areas doing what jobs, where and when.
14:06:02 The contract also calls for a specified increase every
14:06:06 single year.
14:06:07 So that increase would only be passed on to you as you
14:06:11 specified in your contract to us.
14:06:16 >>MARY MULHERN: We specify the amount?
14:06:18 >>> There's a business scale that's used.
14:06:21 Excuse me, I spoke incorrectly.

14:06:23 There's a scale that's used for increase every year
14:06:27 that goes along with the growth plan, I think it's 3%.
14:06:36 It doesn't just automatically go up because it's year
14:06:40 two or year three.
14:06:41 >> What is that based on then?
14:06:45 >>> It's based on --
14:06:50 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Based more on the consumer price
14:06:55 index.
14:06:56 As that changes from year to year, and that's applied
14:06:59 to a potential increase, it would have to be based
14:07:03 upon increased cost, based on the consumer price
14:07:09 index.
14:07:11 >>> Also, if I may, you spoke earlier to the green
14:07:13 process, and the city wanted to go green.
14:07:15 We are proactive green.
14:07:17 If we are awarded the contract, all of the paper
14:07:19 products, hand towels and tissue and anything that we
14:07:24 can use is a green seal or green approved product.
14:07:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think when it comes to our
14:07:31 employees they are worried about a different kind of
14:07:34 green.
14:07:34 >>> And I certainly understand that, thank you.

14:07:35 >>GWEN MILLER: My question is if they come with 15
14:07:39 years of experience or more, do they start at $9 an
14:07:42 hour?
14:07:43 >> Most likely, yes, ma'am.
14:07:45 I am not going to promise you that they will go above
14:07:48 9.50 but our plan is, yes, they will, number one.
14:07:51 Number two, they will also be grandfathered in with
14:07:54 their vacation pay, holiday pay, jury duty pay,
14:07:58 bereavement, all of those items are already figured in
14:08:02 this contract.
14:08:02 >> So it's like they will get the same pay they have
14:08:06 with the city.
14:08:07 >>> I did not say that.
14:08:08 >> No.
14:08:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council members?
14:08:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
14:08:20 I had some other questions but not necessarily to him.
14:08:31 Actually, I do have a question.
14:08:33 I'm sorry.
14:08:36 This is what I can never understand about
14:08:38 privatization.
14:08:39 Because how do you manage to make money?

14:08:49 Well, the pay scale is lower.
14:08:51 And then you don't have to pay any health care.
14:08:55 So in order for it to be profitable for you, it just
14:08:59 seems -- that's just what I don't get.
14:09:02 I would like to hear why is it so much cheaper for you
14:09:08 to do the same work that we would have our people do?
14:09:13 >>> To answer that briefly, as we walked through I
14:09:19 believe 100 different sites, we found areas by which
14:09:23 we could save time.
14:09:26 Okay.
14:09:26 And when you save time, you save hours.
14:09:28 When you save hours, you save money.
14:09:35 There were hours we found that were available to be
14:09:38 used in other areas to minimize the total dollar
14:09:43 amount of this particular contract.
14:09:47 It's just hours.
14:09:48 >> So you are more efficient.
14:09:50 >> Exactly, ma'am.
14:09:51 Our transition plan to what we do and how we do it,
14:09:54 the equipment that we use, yes, ma'am, we are more
14:09:56 efficient.
14:09:59 >> Okay.

14:09:59 So then my question I guess is for Karen Palus, or I
14:10:05 don't know who.
14:10:09 Why can't we, our staff, be more efficient?
14:10:14 Why can't we work on efficiencies in the way we work?
14:10:18 >>> Yes, ma'am, we are trying to do that.
14:10:20 In fact if you remember we established this efficiency
14:10:22 and effectiveness task force trying to look at all the
14:10:25 processes across the city, and we find that in many
14:10:27 cases, what we are doing is kind of segmenting work
14:10:33 across different departments.
14:10:34 We do similar things but we do them in different
14:10:37 departments, and each department sort of creates its
14:10:40 own process.
14:10:41 That's a history that's gone along with the city for a
14:10:45 long time.
14:10:45 Now, the contractor that you are talking with here,
14:10:48 obviously he has contracts all over the southeastern
14:10:51 United States, many thousands of customers, and he's
14:10:56 standardized processes to gain efficiency, finding
14:11:00 those places where he can save hours by doing things
14:11:02 that are a little different, getting exactly the right
14:11:05 equipment in place.

14:11:05 Maybe that equipment really doesn't cost any more than
14:11:07 what we are using, but it's a different type of
14:11:10 equipment he's found to be more productive in those
14:11:14 modes.
14:11:15 We are trying to go there within the city in all
14:11:17 different areas, not just janitorial services but all
14:11:19 different areas.
14:11:20 That's a long process.
14:11:21 It's cultural change, because it's basically
14:11:24 standardizing across departments.
14:11:27 Processing the methods, where those departmental
14:11:29 employees are much more accustomed to doing things the
14:11:32 way they have done them in their departments in the
14:11:34 past.
14:11:35 So you're right on target.
14:11:37 We wish to do that.
14:11:38 We want to do that.
14:11:39 And we are working hard to push in that direction.
14:11:42 >> Well, don't you think that they would rather learn
14:11:44 to be more efficient than have to get a new job?
14:11:49 And I think -- I really think that there's not really
14:11:55 any reason.

14:11:55 I don't see any reason why -- we may not be working
14:11:59 efficiently, and it sounds like we are not if we are
14:12:04 repeating things in the same department.
14:12:10 So I think if we would have more efficiency, maybe
14:12:13 what we need is better management.
14:12:15 >>> I can't disagree with that.
14:12:19 Obviously, we do want to employ better management,
14:12:21 better processes.
14:12:23 But as I mentioned, that's sort of a cultural change.
14:12:26 Cultural change takes a lot of time.
14:12:29 Because people are accustomed to doing what they are
14:12:30 doing.
14:12:32 One of the reasons that we attacked this with the
14:12:35 efficiency and effectiveness task force last year was
14:12:37 the urgency of the budget reductions that we are faced
14:12:40 with, and we are faced again with that this year.
14:12:43 So it's sometimes difficult to conceive of how you are
14:12:48 going to make a very significant budget cut in your
14:12:51 operation in a given year when these cultural changes
14:12:55 and process changes may take several years to get in
14:12:59 place to save that money.
14:13:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I want to tell you from my standpoint

14:13:08 I'm not really sold on privatization.
14:13:15 There are certain things where it does not in
14:13:17 privatizing.
14:13:18 Let me tell what you the state has done, almost
14:13:20 everything they have done comes back to bite them.
14:13:23 It's just a fact.
14:13:27 I mean, everything is pretty much.
14:13:28 So I'm not totally sold on privatizing.
14:13:31 Another thing that I'm concerned about is, and I made
14:13:35 a statement before, why not cut across the board,
14:13:38 everybody, you know?
14:13:39 I'm wondering, did the task force consider outsourcing
14:13:43 senior management to a business entity?
14:13:47 I'm just telling you.
14:13:48 You want to look at it, look at everything.
14:13:50 Look at everything.
14:13:51 That's what you should be doing.
14:13:52 If you are going to cut then look at everything, you
14:13:54 know.
14:13:54 And here we have looked at this department here,
14:13:58 primarily, if you look at it again, the people who are
14:14:01 on the lowest of the scale, of the organization, and

14:14:06 this department is hit the hardest if you look at it,
14:14:09 they are hit the hardest by these cuts.
14:14:11 And so, you know, my concern is, what other
14:14:14 outsourcing or what other privatizing are they going
14:14:17 to do, other areas such as in the senior management.
14:14:21 Are you going to look at that, or are you going to
14:14:23 look at things across the board?
14:14:24 >>> Sir, yes, we are, as a matter of fact.
14:14:26 There are a number of action items that we have got
14:14:28 going in the efficiency task force.
14:14:30 I mentioned the eleven that are underway.
14:14:33 A couple of those were privatizations.
14:14:37 There were activities that will include that, will now
14:14:40 bring so many phase 3 activities that may include
14:14:42 that.
14:14:43 You may remember in some of the reductions that we did
14:14:45 before, you spoke of senior management.
14:14:48 Department deputy directors no longer exist in the
14:14:51 city.
14:14:52 Because we basically took those positions out.
14:14:54 And we lost a number of people at varying levels of
14:14:58 both management supervision and worker.

14:15:01 So we are already faced with that reduction across the
14:15:05 board.
14:15:07 From a business sense, what we are looking at here is
14:15:09 not a department per se.
14:15:14 We are looking across departments and looking at
14:15:16 functions where we can define the function.
14:15:18 Yes, I know we spoke with Karen this morning about a
14:15:23 class of employee that does multiple things, and that
14:15:26 gets a little confusing.
14:15:28 So what we are looking at in this efficiency area is
14:15:31 trying to take classes of employees that do certain
14:15:35 functions that are more well defined functions and see
14:15:38 if that function can be outsourced to the private
14:15:42 industry.
14:15:43 We will continue to look at other levels, including
14:15:46 the professional grades, the management grades, right
14:15:49 down the line.
14:15:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14:15:53 You know, what are we doing here?
14:15:57 If this was 2006, I don't think so.
14:16:02 We are here because there has been a whiplash against
14:16:06 all of us in elected office.

14:16:10 Through the powers to be -- and that's the
14:16:12 taxpayers -- they voted and they changed some of the
14:16:15 systems that led to a stream based opportunity not
14:16:20 only for the city, not only for this county, but for
14:16:23 the whole State of Florida.
14:16:25 When you look at that and you realize that there's $20
14:16:28 million less in ad valorem tax collection, when you
14:16:31 look at the 9% less in sales tax collection because
14:16:35 the economy is going downhill very, very quickly,
14:16:40 people running for president won't tell you but that's
14:16:42 a fact.
14:16:43 When you look at what they have in the proposal for
14:16:45 November, which is even worse, ought to take 25% of
14:16:49 the ad valorem tax and fill it in with a penny
14:16:52 increase in sales tax.
14:16:55 How wonderful.
14:16:56 Let me tell what you that means.
14:16:57 That means that 25% of something additional ad valorem
14:17:02 tax will hurt the schools, the government or the
14:17:05 county or the city.
14:17:07 I hope that doesn't pass.
14:17:08 That's up to the public.

14:17:10 They give you one sales tax penny.
14:17:13 What does that mean?
14:17:14 It means if you're at 7 and you are going to 8, what
14:17:19 percent is that?
14:17:20 It comes out to 12.5%.
14:17:22 Do you the math.
14:17:23 I believe I'm right.
14:17:24 So what do you have?
14:17:26 If you have a dollar and you are charging 7 cents, you
14:17:29 get $7 for all the government to share.
14:17:33 So now that you have same dollar, and it's 8%, you got
14:17:36 $8.
14:17:37 Well, that sounds wonderful in an economy that's going
14:17:40 up.
14:17:40 Would you create more money.
14:17:42 But the economy is not going up.
14:17:44 If anything, it's going down.
14:17:46 So let's assume that you are only getting three
14:17:49 quarters of that dollar.
14:17:51 Guess what that 8% returns.
14:17:54 Not 7.
14:17:55 Certainly not 8.

14:17:56 But 6.
14:17:58 If you do the math again.
14:18:00 So when you are looking at what might happen, I don't
14:18:03 know what's going to happen next year.
14:18:05 I don't know what's going to happen after November.
14:18:08 I'm very, very worried that this is the tip of
14:18:11 something.
14:18:12 Is this the start of something or is this the end of
14:18:15 it?
14:18:16 I don't know if it's the end.
14:18:20 I'm hoping it's not the continuing of the start.
14:18:23 We have had to do, in this year and a half that we
14:18:27 have been here since the last election, a lot of
14:18:30 difficult choices.
14:18:32 This more than likely will be the most difficult.
14:18:34 But it involving everybody.
14:18:39 But when you look at the structure of government, it's
14:18:42 only predicated on what they can -- from the
14:18:48 taxpayers.
14:18:49 We have lost an enormous amount of mope.
14:18:51 County has done even worse because they are much
14:18:53 larger.

14:18:53 They are in the billions.
14:18:55 We are 750 million.
14:18:56 Let me just say that roughly.
14:18:58 So what's happening here is that we are going to get
14:19:00 effected.
14:19:00 The county has had layoffs.
14:19:02 City has had layoffs.
14:19:04 State has had layoffs.
14:19:07 At the racetrack there used to be two of me.
14:19:10 Now there's only one of me because they cut down.
14:19:12 They have cut down on salaries.
14:19:13 They have cut down on positions.
14:19:16 We are not looking so good.
14:19:18 When the large amount of homeowners, rightly or
14:19:21 wrongly, for whatever reason, are in foreclosure, when
14:19:24 they can't get out because they bought a house for
14:19:27 300,000, and they are refinancing when the market was
14:19:30 still going up for 350 and they have it now they want
14:19:33 to get out of it and they have it reappraised at 200,
14:19:36 how are you going to get that house?
14:19:40 Unless the government comes in.
14:19:41 I don't see how they are going to do that.

14:19:43 So what I am saying is the realities right here in
14:19:48 this room today, this is the tip of an iceberg that is
14:19:51 nationwide not only in the City of Tampa, this
14:19:53 happened when I was in Michigan in '04 and '05 was
14:19:58 already there and now we are feeling it going south.
14:20:00 I don't know how much lessor how much more we are
14:20:02 going to have to do, because it depends on the
14:20:05 elections like November, depends what the public
14:20:08 passes.
14:20:09 But I can tell you one thing.
14:20:11 One penny doesn't equal 25% reduction in your
14:20:14 ad valorem tax.
14:20:15 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14:20:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Pleasure of council?
14:20:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just have a few comments and then
14:20:26 I would like to make a motion.
14:20:27 For one thing, I provided the council, for the record,
14:20:33 it's not just jobs, it not just positions, these are
14:20:36 people.
14:20:37 And we went over to the people's files, with our
14:20:39 janitorial folks that service us, and gave a copy to
14:20:46 the clerk.

14:20:46 But basically, these are people.
14:20:50 These are our co-workers and it's good to have
14:20:54 efficiency task force and all these fancy names, okay.
14:20:57 But they lose sight of what we are really talking
14:21:00 about and that's the people that were here this
14:21:01 morning.
14:21:02 And the people that were back here in December even
14:21:05 more of them.
14:21:06 But the fact this got rushed through in one week gave
14:21:08 people not as much opportunity to be able to take off
14:21:11 from their jobs of working over in the parks and
14:21:14 coming down here and tell us how they felt.
14:21:16 But anyway, I don't often quote scriptures or
14:21:23 preachers or that sort of thing.
14:21:25 But today reverend Harnish was here, and they
14:21:31 basically pointed messages on those indication
14:21:34 intentionally.
14:21:35 Reverend Birnholz back in September said a accepts of
14:21:38 purpose that we may gather direction a sense of duty
14:21:42 that we may work with conviction, that we may bring a
14:21:45 touch of humanity to all, help us know that it just as
14:21:48 important to apportion money and power with compassion

14:21:51 as it is to do with precision.
14:21:53 Reverend Harnish this morning reminded us, and he told
14:21:56 me even in his church he's gone through tough times,
14:21:59 in these difficult times, amen, right?
14:22:03 In these difficult times we still must maintain and
14:22:06 retain our compassion for each other.
14:22:08 Okay.
14:22:09 A lot of times we can get up here and we don't have to
14:22:11 deal with issues or compassion, it's all nuts and
14:22:15 bolts and dollars and cents.
14:22:17 But that's not what this is.
14:22:19 This is real people.
14:22:20 Okay.
14:22:21 And these are dedicated employees, hard-working, many
14:22:24 of them, I calculate back in December 35% of them live
14:22:28 in East Tampa, many of them have dependents from one
14:22:34 to five or six dependents that count on this $20,000 a
14:22:39 year income?
14:22:40 We were told this morning, Tom, you weren't able to be
14:22:44 here, you were out of town, that some of them could
14:22:46 lose their homes.
14:22:47 Can you manage scrimping and saving with $20,000 a

14:22:51 year finally buying a home and then losing this job
14:22:53 and possibly losing their home?
14:22:54 They said they were putting their kids through
14:22:56 college.
14:22:57 That's what people were getting into government,
14:22:58 because it's a secure job, and it's a way to pull
14:23:02 yourself up, and then your next generation you send
14:23:05 them to college and then things get better and better.
14:23:07 That's part of America and that's, in my opinion, one
14:23:11 of the wonderful things about government.
14:23:13 You know, I was really annoyed by the article last
14:23:16 week, because the article last week focused on the
14:23:19 fact that we were able to save those 38 security jobs,
14:23:24 and let's pat ourselves on the back for that, okay?
14:23:27 But that's wrong.
14:23:28 I thought of the analogy last night.
14:23:30 That's like if we have got a problem with our ship and
14:23:34 the ship is sort of tilting a little bit, we throw 70
14:23:38 people overboard.
14:23:40 Then we are going to pat ourselves on the bat back
14:23:43 because we came up with 38 life jackets.
14:23:45 Well, there's about 30 people out there about to drawn

14:23:48 and that's what this vote is all about.
14:23:50 The bottom line is, council, the budget is ours.
14:23:53 Marty Shelby will stand here and tell us and read to
14:23:56 us the charter, but at the end of the day, this summer
14:23:59 and going into the fall, who has the budget
14:24:02 responsibility?
14:24:02 It's right here.
14:24:04 And if we can't find $400,000 out of a half billion
14:24:10 dollar budget then we don't deserve to be here.
14:24:14 I have got some other things but I'll hold off and
14:24:16 spare you guys, because I have a feeling you all, we
14:24:19 are on the same page on this.
14:24:20 We know what's right.
14:24:21 We know we can do this.
14:24:23 We know we can save these jobs.
14:24:24 We know we can find $400,000.
14:24:27 I move to vote no on privatization, let's send a
14:24:31 message, that -- we are a policy setting board.
14:24:34 David Smith is not here.
14:24:37 He told us numerous times we set policy.
14:24:40 Administration carries out the policy.
14:24:41 Let's set the policy today that we don't want to hear

14:24:44 anything more about this privatization, because as our
14:24:47 chairman said it hasn't been working around the state
14:24:49 and we don't need to start it here.
14:24:50 So my motion is to deny.
14:24:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:24:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me speak to that motion.
14:25:01 I'm not a very popular guy.
14:25:06 [ Laughter ]
14:25:07 Never try to joke with me, had you are going to come
14:25:17 in second.
14:25:17 But let me say this all joking aside.
14:25:20 When I first came into office, there was about $3600
14:25:24 left in my travel budget.
14:25:25 I called revenue and finance department, said take the
14:25:28 money put it into general fund, I ain't going nowhere,
14:25:31 things are tough.
14:25:33 Last year, during the same budget, don't take the
14:25:38 money, I don't want it, put it back in the general
14:25:40 fund.
14:25:41 This year, evidently, they got hold of it because in
14:25:44 my name when you come up to travel and entertainment
14:25:49 there's only a dime.

14:25:51 That's over $11,000.
14:25:54 I have tried to do what's best to put money back in,
14:25:57 to help the general fund, to help other people in the
14:26:00 city.
14:26:03 We also did, through all my colleagues on the council,
14:26:06 did not take a raise last year, and it will be very
14:26:09 doubtful we take any this year.
14:26:11 So, however, by that same token, I am not trying to --
14:26:15 we spent more money on different things than any other
14:26:18 department.
14:26:18 And if you ask me to tell you I'm going to tell you,
14:26:20 you ain't going to like it but I have a very good
14:26:22 memory.
14:26:23 We are also looking to hire another individual on City
14:26:25 Council.
14:26:27 So at the same time, we say one thing, we do the
14:26:29 opposite exactly what we say.
14:26:33 I'm very frugal.
14:26:35 Some call it cheap.
14:26:36 Some call it whatever you want to call it.
14:26:37 I call it frugality.
14:26:39 That's a neat word.

14:26:41 But I try to understand what's going on.
14:26:44 Does this mean that the opportunity ends, or it's the
14:26:48 beginning?
14:26:49 I have said that before.
14:26:50 When you look at what the prognosis is for this
14:26:54 government, and all the governments in this state, I
14:27:00 hate to tell you this, we are on a respirator.
14:27:03 We are getting ready to go into a coma.
14:27:07 If the expenditures of the city have not decreased, I
14:27:10 can tell you alone that the cost of chemicals in the
14:27:13 water and sewer department have skyrocketed, 50 to
14:27:17 60%.
14:27:17 I can tell you the cost of making other items
14:27:20 available to all the taxpayers have gone up.
14:27:23 Gasoline has gone up at an enormous rate from 2 years
14:27:28 ago to 3 years ago, we are paying 50, 60, 100% more
14:27:31 depending on the types of vehicles.
14:27:33 These are the things that the city is not immune to
14:27:36 the average taxpayer.
14:27:38 We are the taxpayer.
14:27:39 We pay to have some service done.
14:27:42 I don't know how to solve this problem.

14:27:45 If there was a compromise, I would be willing to give
14:27:47 more of my salary away if all of us do the same thing,
14:27:50 everyone in the city is happy.
14:27:52 But that hasn't been done.
14:27:53 There are agreements with three labor unions and
14:27:58 rightly so.
14:27:58 That has not been addressed.
14:28:00 And they want to make across the board cuts, I'm all
14:28:03 for it.
14:28:05 I would rather do that than do this.
14:28:07 I don't have an option.
14:28:08 That's not on the table.
14:28:10 So these unions, and I hope they are listening, not to
14:28:14 me but to the council, if they were to do and say, I
14:28:17 take a two and a half, three percent cut, guess what,
14:28:20 all of cows make it, all of us can survive, and there
14:28:23 would be no cuts.
14:28:24 But in a one has come to the table to say, I want to
14:28:26 rescue the city, I want to help you do what's needed
14:28:29 so that all of us, all of us, the family -- I
14:28:34 shouldn't say family or they'll think I'm the mob --
14:28:37 but all of us in this organization called city

14:28:40 employees, if they were to do that, we wouldn't be
14:28:42 here there, would be no discussion.
14:28:44 But I haven't heard that.
14:28:45 I haven't heard that.
14:28:46 But the labor unions, I haven't heard that from no
14:28:50 one.
14:28:50 They have certainly had this opportunity.
14:28:51 They have certainly met with their Board of Directors,
14:28:54 and rightly so.
14:28:55 But that has not been brought to the table.
14:28:57 But what am I left with?
14:28:59 What am I left with?
14:29:01 I have given way want to give.
14:29:02 If you want another 3 or 4% for me I'll give it over
14:29:06 right now.
14:29:06 But that's not here.
14:29:07 I don't know about the other six.
14:29:10 But I can tell you that I will give part of my salary
14:29:13 to save these jobs.
14:29:14 But that's not here.
14:29:15 That's not what's on the table.
14:29:17 What's on the table today is the city on life support.

14:29:22 And I don't know how to solve this problem, because in
14:29:25 November, if that passes, you are going to be right
14:29:28 back here, and you are going to have to have another
14:29:30 division of -- I have always supported labor.
14:29:35 But somewhere along the line, on these issues, I can
14:29:39 name you a city in California right outside
14:29:41 San Francisco.
14:29:41 Guess. What they are in bankruptcy.
14:29:50 Would you want to be in bankruptcy?
14:29:51 That's where we are at.
14:29:52 And I hate to raise my voice.
14:29:55 I get excited.
14:29:55 I don't mean to talk loud.
14:29:57 I just want to convey the message that these are my
14:29:59 brothers and sisters.
14:30:00 But I also have 4,000 other brothers and sisters here.
14:30:04 What am I to do?
14:30:05 How am I going to solve this problem?
14:30:07 What avenues do I have to create this 400,000 or $20
14:30:11 or whatever it is?
14:30:13 I am going to have to make the decisions if this issue
14:30:16 passes in November.

14:30:17 And you can see that the opponents are already lining
14:30:20 up, all the different people across the state are
14:30:22 saying, no, don't do this.
14:30:24 Well, guess what, it's very easy to vote yes.
14:30:27 The class -- classroom amendment passed.
14:30:31 And where are they at?
14:30:33 They are nowhere.
14:30:34 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14:30:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
14:30:41 >>MARY MULHERN: I hate to say this, but we are going
14:30:45 to be -- we are a little bit behind on the crash, the
14:30:51 economic crash, rather, because we have been reliant
14:30:55 and are reliant on ad valorem taxes, on property
14:30:58 taxes.
14:30:59 And last year, our property tax income went up 18%,
14:31:10 2007, we had more than $25 million increase in
14:31:12 property taxes.
14:31:15 So we are going to be in trouble, because it doesn't
14:31:17 look like things are going to get that much better.
14:31:19 But right now, we're not.
14:31:21 And we had years, two, three, four years of very high
14:31:26 revenue, property tax revenue coming in here, and we

14:31:30 have had more than healthy, some finance people would
14:31:36 say unnecessarily high fund balances for the last
14:31:40 three years, and last year's fund balance was $57
14:31:44 million.
14:31:45 So when we are really, really in trouble, which is
14:31:48 probably going to happen soon, then we need to save
14:31:51 $500,000 on what we are spending.
14:31:55 But I also think that it's kind of sad that we hear
14:31:59 people saying that we just can't be efficient, so
14:32:04 let's fire the people we have and give the jobs to
14:32:07 somebody else.
14:32:07 I think the answer to that is more efficiency.
14:32:09 And I would also like to say, Mr. Miranda, sometimes
14:32:13 you have to invest to make some money.
14:32:16 I think you know that.
14:32:17 >>> That's why I have money in the bank.
14:32:19 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
14:32:20 If we invest in budget adviser, which I think we are
14:32:24 going to do, and if we accept these volunteers that
14:32:29 want to look at the budget for us, we can find this
14:32:31 money.
14:32:32 I mean, we just -- sometimes we just have to read the

14:32:35 paper and we find out we are spending, you know,
14:32:38 $31,000 more than one of these jobs is worth on
14:32:42 bottled water.
14:32:43 So I think there's waste in this budget.
14:32:45 I think we can find it.
14:32:46 I think people are offering to find it for us rather
14:32:49 than to lose their jobs.
14:32:50 And I think we are going to do it.
14:32:53 I don't think that we need to pass either of these
14:32:57 plans to privatize.
14:32:58 And I'm not convinced that we have seen the kind of
14:33:05 breakdown of the figures to show me that privatizing
14:33:10 the mowing isn't just another piece of this puzzle
14:33:12 where we are giving jobs to private companies and
14:33:18 putting people out of work.
14:33:20 So from a kind of cold hard perspective the numbers
14:33:25 just aren't there to convince me that we are going to
14:33:27 save money.
14:33:28 And evidence of other people who have done this kind
14:33:30 of privatizing, and even our own city who has done it
14:33:34 before and ended up finding out that in the end it
14:33:37 doesn't cost you that much money.

14:33:38 And if you just think about it, as I said, and Mr -- I
14:33:45 can't remember your name -- whose company said, you
14:33:49 know, they make money because they are efficient.
14:33:53 So we need to change this.
14:33:55 If we are not efficient we need to change that
14:33:57 culture.
14:33:58 And I think there are a lot of parks employees that
14:34:01 are ready to change that culture.
14:34:02 And I actually think it's already there.
14:34:04 We have seen how loyal these people are.
14:34:07 And that's another thing we need to invest in.
14:34:09 There's some investment.
14:34:10 When you hire someone and they work for you, for the
14:34:13 city, and are devoted, royal employees for 10, 15, 20
14:34:18 years, you make that investment.
14:34:19 And you want the productivity and the hard work and
14:34:22 the commitment that that brings to the city rather
14:34:26 than just having, you know, some people, the jobs that
14:34:31 people are turning over, they don't even know the
14:34:34 people that work in the parks, they don't know the
14:34:36 kids that are there, they don't know -- they are just
14:34:38 not part of the family, as Mr. Miranda said.

14:34:43 I'm half Italian, too, Charlie.
14:34:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
14:34:50 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, for years I watched
14:34:52 our City Council, and I remember people saying, we
14:34:57 haven't raised your taxes in 16 years, 17 years.
14:35:01 That's true.
14:35:03 You didn't raise our taxes.
14:35:05 But I know in the New Tampa area you are only
14:35:07 collecting $22 million, but next year you collected
14:35:11 $46 million.
14:35:12 And you spent every penny of it.
14:35:14 And that's the problem.
14:35:16 Our government is not efficient.
14:35:19 Like it was the F-150 trucks that you didn't want to
14:35:23 buy anymore, we shouldn't buy them.
14:35:24 I see people riding around with these big trucks, with
14:35:27 nothing in them.
14:35:29 And I don't have the time to follow them.
14:35:33 If I had the time I would follow them, believe me, and
14:35:35 I would prove my point.
14:35:37 I have been lobbied like everybody else on this board,
14:35:41 by the union, the administration, I'm sure everybody

14:35:44 has been lobbied.
14:35:47 You have been lobbied?
14:35:48 Of course.
14:35:48 And I don't want to put anybody out of work either.
14:35:50 I said that during the fire hydrant episode.
14:35:54 But the first time in 20 years, we have -- we had 20
14:36:03 years to show us where the fire hydrants are.
14:36:07 We only got that because I complained.
14:36:08 And I can't support laying off people.
14:36:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Caetano, I'm sure you
14:36:15 identified the place where the dog versus to go.
14:36:19 [ Laughter ]
14:36:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ms. Saul-Sena.
14:36:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm so sorry that our
14:36:23 administration wasn't able to share the amount that we
14:36:26 spend on benefits.
14:36:27 But my assistant did a little research when we started
14:36:32 this conversation.
14:36:33 It's around more or less 30% of a person's salary is
14:36:37 in benefits, which is health insurance as well as
14:36:40 pension.
14:36:40 But I want to say that even if it were 20%, we are

14:36:44 talking about employees who are not making more than
14:36:46 $20,000 a year, if this were privatized, and to take
14:36:51 20% of $20,000, which is about 4,000, and Charlie you
14:36:56 are better at math, but at any rate, if you are making
14:37:00 $20,000 a year, that is below the poverty level, and
14:37:03 that's as a working person, and for them to pay for
14:37:07 health insurance or any kind of pension outside, you
14:37:11 are so hard pressed.
14:37:13 There's a book that some of us have read called
14:37:15 nickels and dimes by Barbara Einhart where she is a
14:37:22 revered journalist that tries to live on minimum wage
14:37:25 and she just can't do it.
14:37:27 The nation hasn't come to grips with health care
14:37:30 costs.
14:37:30 The degree that we as council can weigh in on this is
14:37:33 whether or not we maintain these city jobs, where the
14:37:36 employees are able to have city benefits and health
14:37:39 care, and I thought the people who spoke this morning
14:37:44 were eloquent, and I will be supporting the motion.
14:37:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me follow up and then I will come
14:37:48 back to councilman Dingfelder.
14:37:50 Let me just say that, council, what you have to

14:37:54 understand, first of all, I think we do have to
14:37:56 recognize the government and that the mayor has done
14:38:01 what she believes is the right process, the right
14:38:03 step, so we have to recognize that, and I have no
14:38:06 problem with that.
14:38:07 I think they have done an admiral job in trying to
14:38:10 save taxpayer dollars for the budget.
14:38:13 I think we are at a process where we have opportunity
14:38:16 to look at it and see if there's other opportunities
14:38:18 to be able to find other ways of cutting the budget,
14:38:23 and not laying off employees.
14:38:27 I think, though, when we look at the budget or look at
14:38:31 these contracts, we don't want to mislead people and
14:38:35 say no one is going to lose their jobs.
14:38:37 We have to be very careful with that.
14:38:38 However, at some point, there are going to be some
14:38:40 layoffs, additional layoffs.
14:38:42 There are going to be some loss of jobs.
14:38:44 And that's just a fact.
14:38:47 We talk about the budget and try to balance the
14:38:50 budget.
14:38:50 At some point, actually you're right, Mr. Miranda, if

14:38:54 that thing passes in November we are going to be right
14:38:56 back here again, you know.
14:38:58 I said it before, when the last amendment passed.
14:39:02 But when we look at this whole issue, I think we want
14:39:07 to try to do everything we can.
14:39:08 But part of my problem is that it appears that we
14:39:11 don't have a budget, and we vote on things before we
14:39:14 look at the budget so we can look at things in
14:39:16 totality and that's my struggle, to be able to have
14:39:19 everything before you, all did facts, all the
14:39:21 information, tall contracts, so you can look at
14:39:23 everything in totality as opposed to piece by piece.
14:39:27 I can't get a whole picture and get my hand around the
14:39:30 whole thing because it's not coming, you know,
14:39:33 together as one item, you know, coming piece here
14:39:36 today, got a piece here tomorrow, and that sort of
14:39:38 thing.
14:39:39 So that's the other part.
14:39:41 Then the other question I raise was the janitorial
14:39:45 staff people the opportunity to be here.
14:39:48 That raises another interesting question.
14:39:51 I found that many times that the employees could come

14:39:54 together and do a much better job sometimes than we
14:39:57 can in making recommendations on where to cut and how
14:40:00 to cut.
14:40:01 Or a thousand dollars some other places where
14:40:06 employees have an opportunity to be, and therefore,
14:40:08 you know, be able to retain their job based on their
14:40:11 own.
14:40:15 So I think that we all agree that the issue is for us
14:40:21 looking at whether these persons will be laid off the
14:40:24 job or cut to balance the budget.
14:40:26 To me I think it would be the best totality.
14:40:28 I think need everything to make a very good sound
14:40:31 decision for the citizens of this community.
14:40:33 Okay.
14:40:33 That is the motion on the floor.
14:40:35 All in favor of the motion, motion made by councilman
14:40:39 Dingfelder that we deny the contract here.
14:40:43 Yes.
14:40:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: May I speak one more time?
14:40:46 >> Yes.
14:40:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here again, I used to spend, for
14:40:52 most of my life only lived a minimum wage, and I'm not

14:40:56 ashamed to say that.
14:40:58 I also had two or three jobs.
14:41:00 I always saved part of my salary for when I could get
14:41:05 old and have something to fall back on.
14:41:07 I can also say that I try to study the issues as best
14:41:12 as I can with a limited information that I may have or
14:41:16 may be able to assume.
14:41:18 The issues have come up various things and different
14:41:22 ways and forms.
14:41:23 Some council members brought up the water, $31 that
14:41:26 you.
14:41:26 What they didn't tell you is that we had water back
14:41:28 here the administration had since I have been here,
14:41:32 but in a one said anything about that.
14:41:34 So if we want to cut it out, I'm with you.
14:41:36 I'm with you, brothers and sisters.
14:41:38 Let's cut the water out.
14:41:40 That's number one.
14:41:41 But let me say that.
14:41:43 I can also tell you that when I went to college at a
14:41:46 much later date than normal, I paid for it myself.
14:41:55 Working full time being an elect official and going

14:42:00 full time to school.
14:42:02 And I did it at the same time that it takes a lot of
14:42:05 you to do a four year degree.
14:42:06 I'm not bragging about myself but I'm also saying if
14:42:11 it's the desire of a person to better themselves, you
14:42:14 have it, you are going to succeed.
14:42:17 Tau one little baby step at a time.
14:42:19 And that has nothing to do with this.
14:42:23 This is a very difficult issue.
14:42:26 I cannot put my feet in concrete and say, this is the
14:42:30 end.
14:42:31 Because it might be the beginning.
14:42:32 And that's what I'm worried about.
14:42:34 I don't know what's going to happen in November.
14:42:36 I can tell you right now, I will be willing to give up
14:42:39 5% of my salary to put it in the kitty.
14:42:44 I don't know about the other brothers and sisters
14:42:45 here.
14:42:46 I don't know about the brothers and sisters in the
14:42:47 union.
14:42:48 But there's my offer.
14:42:50 If this passes or doesn't pass, if it passes, to get

14:42:57 rid of the 28 employees, and if the unions want to get
14:43:01 together with me I will be more than happy to work it
14:43:03 out, but take a rollback, maybe less, it may be only
14:43:07 2% to help these people out.
14:43:08 I'm willing to do that.
14:43:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:43:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to remind you, or maybe
14:43:14 you didn't know, but I know I and several other people
14:43:17 offered to take a salary cut.
14:43:21 We all took a cut in our budget.
14:43:24 A quarter of our budget last year.
14:43:28 And I know that I talked to the mayor about more
14:43:32 across the board cuts than I think a lot of people are
14:43:36 willing to talk about that, and there wasn't any
14:43:38 interest in it.
14:43:39 So, really, as far as what our choices are either to
14:43:42 vote up or down, so that's the only way we can vote.
14:43:48 And also, the water we have back there, at least the
14:43:51 bottles are recycled but I'm happy to drink tap water
14:43:55 which I do, and I put myself through college, too.
14:44:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:44:02 >>GWEN MILLER: We are ready to vote.

14:44:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
14:44:07 Well, all in favor let it be known by Aye.
14:44:10 Opposes?
14:44:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Nay.
14:44:13 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda voting no.
14:44:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:44:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 20.
14:44:36 Item 22.
14:44:37 22.
14:44:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The reason I pulled item 70, I want
14:44:43 everybody to look at it closely.
14:44:44 Item 70 is $250,000 that comes out of the general
14:44:47 fund.
14:44:48 All right.
14:44:52 We had about 400,000 and I'm proud of it but now like
14:44:58 I said earlier it's up to us to start finding that
14:45:01 money.
14:45:01 All right?
14:45:01 Item 70 is $250,000 for to us buy those illuminated
14:45:06 street signs that are very lovely.
14:45:10 Okay.
14:45:10 They are lovely.

14:45:11 They really look good when you are driving down the
14:45:13 streets.
14:45:14 But the problem is, it's a luxury.
14:45:18 We have street signs on every corner.
14:45:19 We have metal street signs.
14:45:21 They function.
14:45:21 Some day we are going to replace them with illuminated
14:45:24 signs.
14:45:24 But you know what?
14:45:25 We don't have to do that today.
14:45:27 This is not really a neighborhood improvement thing.
14:45:29 It's out there on the street.
14:45:31 It makes the city look a little better.
14:45:33 But at the end of the day it's a luxury.
14:45:35 And that's $250,000 that if we reject this contract
14:45:39 right here, okay, then we can save $250,000.
14:45:43 And I'm responding exactly to what you said, Charlie.
14:45:47 I want to give up part of whatever I can back in my
14:45:50 office if that's a few thousand dollars.
14:45:53 Right here is a big chunk of money.
14:45:55 All right.
14:45:56 So I'm going to move that we turn down the $250,000

14:46:00 for item 70 because it comes out of the general fund,
14:46:03 and we are going to start figuring out other ways that
14:46:05 we can save money and help the general fund.
14:46:08 That's my motion for item 70.
14:46:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:46:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I totally disagree with that.
14:46:15 Let me say what it is.
14:46:17 When you -- the concept, if you look at it and never
14:46:20 seen one of those little four inches by a foot sign
14:46:23 that half are unreadable because they fade and wear
14:46:26 out, when you don't know what number block you are in,
14:46:29 when you don't know where you are going, and I can
14:46:30 tell you right now on the corner of site res and Dale
14:46:34 Mabry, there's a sign on the southeast corner that's
14:46:36 halfway down, that you can't read.
14:46:38 Even if it was lighted.
14:46:40 However you have these I will lull named signs and you
14:46:43 know exactly where you are at.
14:46:45 We know where we are at.
14:46:46 I'm not a tourist.
14:46:48 Somebody visiting a family that comes in to see.
14:46:50 How are you going to find yourself around?

14:46:52 You have to have these things.
14:46:53 It's not that I don't want to save the $250,000.
14:46:56 It's $250,000 worth of light, that somebody stops to
14:47:00 look at a sign, gets hit, gets killed.
14:47:02 Is that what we want?
14:47:03 >>GWEN MILLER: I agree, because those signs are going
14:47:07 to save lives.
14:47:09 We have people start running through a stop sign, not
14:47:12 knowing where they are going.
14:47:14 We have had this happen.
14:47:15 In my area they do run the signs, because there's a
14:47:19 lot of speeding and we have accident after accident.
14:47:22 If this is going to save lives in the City of Tampa
14:47:24 I'm for it.
14:47:28 >>CINDY MILLER: Director growth management development
14:47:30 services.
14:47:31 I did check during the earlier break about the source
14:47:33 of funding for item 70.
14:47:35 And it is not coming from the same source of funds
14:47:39 that pay salaries.
14:47:40 It is from our capital program and CIC.
14:47:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I asked staff, okay, earlier and

14:47:47 they told me that these signs come out of the general
14:47:50 fund.
14:47:51 Okay.
14:47:52 Now you are getting different information.
14:47:54 If you want to carry it over for a few weeks.
14:47:56 >>CINDY MILLER: I don't believe we have to.
14:47:59 Herb Lee is down the hall.
14:48:00 He's the one that provides the information.
14:48:02 I asked him to step in and he confirmed for me it does
14:48:05 not come from the same sources.
14:48:07 That's why we wanted to confirm it to the lunch hour.
14:48:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The bottom line it's all a shell
14:48:14 game, okay?
14:48:15 Because we have big budgets.
14:48:16 We have big budgets.
14:48:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:48:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I think we can start saving
14:48:21 money.
14:48:21 And whether or not you want to call it council money
14:48:25 or operating money.
14:48:26 At the end of the Dave if you save in the capital, you
14:48:28 need to switch it over elsewhere.

14:48:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:48:33 >>MARY MULHERN: I had some questions.
14:48:36 >> Is it CIP or CIT?
14:48:40 >> CIT.
14:48:41 Councilwoman Mulhern.
14:48:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, I had some questions, and
14:48:44 maybe -- where are these going?
14:48:50 Is this one particular neighborhood?
14:48:52 >>> Irvin Lee, director of public works.
14:48:55 This contract allows us to put those signs in where
14:48:59 they are needed.
14:49:01 There's a lot of locations that -- I don't have them
14:49:04 with me.
14:49:05 >> How are you going to determine where they go?
14:49:07 Is it based on safety problems, or just --
14:49:14 >>> Again some of these things you already mentioned,
14:49:18 trying to improve the drivability, the --
14:49:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Is it our plan to do the whole city
14:49:24 with these?
14:49:26 >>> Not in all locations do we have the structural
14:49:29 members to be able to support these types of signs.
14:49:32 But in those areas where we can, we would like to get

14:49:36 them up to improve the ability for folks to --
14:49:41 >>MARY MULHERN: I know, I can't read any street signs.
14:49:44 I don't know if it's my vision or what.
14:49:45 But I think it's a good idea.
14:49:49 Illuminated signs.
14:49:50 I just wonder where this was coming from, this amount
14:49:54 of money, and how many signs, and where they are
14:49:57 going.
14:49:57 How many signs will it be?
14:49:59 Do we know?
14:50:00 >>> I don't have the precise number.
14:50:02 But, again, intersections, normally we do about 10,000
14:50:10 per intersection.
14:50:11 And as we upgrade intersections, one of the things we
14:50:17 try to do especially on major connectors is improve
14:50:21 the street signs with the illuminated street signs.
14:50:24 So I don't have the precise list in front of me right
14:50:28 now.
14:50:31 But we do monitor and go through and improve those
14:50:34 intersections as needed.
14:50:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
14:50:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: You don't know how many signs

14:50:43 this is going to cover, this amount?
14:50:51 >> 25.
14:50:53 >>> Intersections.
14:50:56 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: 10,000 per intersection?
14:51:02 It's the one that the county has, correct?
14:51:04 The county has them on Bruce B. Downs Boulevard.
14:51:06 >>> And we have them as kind of a signature item here.
14:51:12 If you look at some of the major intersections, when
14:51:16 you see illuminated signs with the street name above
14:51:20 the intersection.
14:51:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: That's $10,000?
14:51:25 >>> From each direction that you are approaching an
14:51:28 intersection, or -- in some cases, we have to include
14:51:33 the structural portion, you know, to support -- this
14:51:39 is for the contract to be able to put the signs up.
14:51:41 >> Do you have the location that is you are going to
14:51:43 do now?
14:51:44 >>> I don't have the information with me.
14:51:46 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I would like to
14:51:48 leave this on the table until he comes to us with
14:51:51 definite locations.
14:51:55 >>> This is renewal of a contract.

14:51:59 >>GWEN MILLER: He can send you a copy of it.
14:52:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That doesn't mean anything.
14:52:04 One contract ends and the next one starts.
14:52:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano still has the
14:52:08 floor.
14:52:09 Ding
14:52:10 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I want to know where they are
14:52:12 going.
14:52:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I withdraw my motion to deny and
14:52:16 request a motion for continuance until we get back
14:52:18 from break and that will give us more information and
14:52:20 frankly I got a straight answer to the budget aspect,
14:52:23 but did ask before lunch about where this is coming
14:52:25 from, and I was told one thing, and now I am being
14:52:27 told something else so obviously we all need to sit
14:52:30 down together and look at the books.
14:52:31 So I think there's justification from your question,
14:52:33 Mr. Caetano, to continue it for three weeks, and
14:52:36 there's justification from my side on the budget side
14:52:38 to continue it for three weeks, and you know what?
14:52:41 Every single one of these kind of things, we have to
14:52:43 have the scrutiny so we can keep finding this kind of

14:52:46 money.
14:52:46 If this isn't this one then it has to be the next one
14:52:52 and we have to keep doing that.
14:52:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just tell you --
14:52:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I have a motion for continuance
14:52:57 for three weeks.
14:53:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, council, I am a little concerned
14:53:02 here now.
14:53:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Why dop we need three weeks?
14:53:08 >> Vacation.
14:53:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me finish, please.
14:53:10 Let me finish.
14:53:11 First of all, it is my understanding that this is CIP
14:53:14 money.
14:53:14 CIP is conditional only be spent for capital projects.
14:53:18 Period.
14:53:19 Period.
14:53:20 I don't care where the signs are.
14:53:24 It doesn't matter.
14:53:25 You can only spend it for one purpose.
14:53:26 CIP.
14:53:28 That's it.

14:53:32 I agree that some things that come through we need to
14:53:34 take a close look at but some things when don't have
14:53:36 the time on every single item that comes through.
14:53:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Part of what we need done, why do we
14:53:48 keep delaying?
14:53:50 You want people to -- prevent people from being killed
14:53:53 then you delay it.
14:53:54 It's like you are not concerned about people, you are
14:53:56 concerned about the money.
14:53:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion to continue for three
14:53:59 weeks.
14:54:00 Motion moved and seconded.
14:54:02 All in favor of continuing for three weeks, signify by
14:54:05 saying Aye.
14:54:06 Opposes?
14:54:10 >> I don't know who voted what.
14:54:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 4-3, though.
14:54:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion passed 4-3.
14:54:16 THE CLERK: I believe the motion passed with Miranda,
14:54:20 Scott, and Miller voting no.
14:54:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, that's correct.
14:54:23 That's correct.

14:54:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The other item is 22.
14:54:31 24?
14:54:32 No, it was 22.
14:54:33 Did we get that yet?
14:54:36 This one is more complicated.
14:54:41 Again, I would like for us to walk out of here with a
14:54:44 net zero effect of our earlier vote.
14:54:48 And I think the way we could do that is by sending a
14:54:51 message, we can't rewrite this contract but I think we
14:54:54 can send a message back to the administration, instead
14:54:57 of spending $1.2 million on the mowing those yards
14:55:01 which is, what item 22 contemplates, this council
14:55:07 would take that down $400,000, all right, and let them
14:55:11 figure it out, and then that way, we have found the
14:55:15 $400,000, they can do a contract to mow, for
14:55:22 approximately $800,000, and then the $400,000 they'll
14:55:26 have to be able to save it.
14:55:30 If I need to explain that better, I will.
14:55:34 There's logic there, okay.
14:55:35 The logic is, right now, we have no money, but it's
14:55:41 contrary to item 22 which says by the way, we don't
14:55:44 have any money but we are going to bid out $1.2,

14:55:47 contract $1.2 million to mow our yards.
14:55:50 Well, who is mowing them right now?
14:55:52 Our staff.
14:55:53 They are mowing them right now.
14:55:55 This is not a rebid.
14:55:56 This is -- a lot of this is a new award.
14:56:00 Okay.
14:56:00 So if we have some staff that can keep mowing part of
14:56:05 it, let's reduce it down 400,000 so we can really
14:56:09 justify saving those jobs that we did on a net zero
14:56:13 effect, and say come back to us with this contract for
14:56:16 $800,000 instead.
14:56:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Before we do, that first let me speak,
14:56:25 and let me hear from legal because I don't think we
14:56:28 can do any of that because last time Mr. Smith stood
14:56:30 here, he said vote it up or down. That was my
14:56:33 recollection on the contract to come before us, we
14:56:36 could not change it, we couldn't do nothing, we could
14:56:42 vote it up down.
14:56:43 Is that right?
14:56:44 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
14:56:46 You can't change anything.

14:56:48 Your choices are accept the bid, deny the bid. If you
14:56:51 deny it will go back to administration to decide if
14:56:53 they want to rebid this issue or whatever it is they
14:56:55 have to do.
14:56:55 But your choice is either up or down.
14:56:58 You can continue it if you want to.
14:56:59 That doesn't solve anything because it comes back in
14:57:01 three weeks you are in the same position.
14:57:03 You might get a better explanation if that's what you
14:57:05 are will go for.
14:57:06 But you cannot change the bid.
14:57:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you for the floor.
14:57:10 Again my good friend and I are on opposite sides of
14:57:14 this issue and nothing wrong with that.
14:57:16 However, I guess if you look at this and you take out
14:57:19 40% or so, you are left with about $740,000 or so.
14:57:24 So what are we saying?
14:57:26 We subtract 450, and who is going to get mowed and who
14:57:30 is not going to get mowed?
14:57:32 Let me put it this way.
14:57:34 No, it's not all of them are going to get mowed.
14:57:37 Now it happens that the cemetery doesn't get mowed.

14:57:40 That's wonderful.
14:57:40 A playground doesn't get mowed.
14:57:43 What happens?
14:57:43 You start getting snakes, rats, sand spurs.
14:57:46 That's really healthy for the kids.
14:57:49 Open space ground, when the people come into the City
14:57:51 of Tampa that we want to lure in, they say, what a
14:57:54 dump this city is.
14:57:56 So those are the things that you have to -- when we
14:58:01 make a vote and recommendation, there's always two
14:58:05 sides to every issue.
14:58:07 And I look at something, and I say, I may not like it
14:58:10 but the other side I hate worse.
14:58:12 So I may have the lesser of the two evils here to do.
14:58:16 And it's incumbent -- when Lou at the open space,
14:58:21 playgrounds, cemeteries, things this nature, downtown
14:58:24 know how many calms you are going to get because a
14:58:26 cemetery doesn't get mowed.
14:58:27 Believe you me it's one of the most sensitive things
14:58:30 in government.
14:58:32 That's all, Mr. Chair.
14:58:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.

14:58:37 >>MARY MULHERN: I was the one that pulled this item,
14:58:39 and I had discussion with Santiago and Kim yesterday
14:58:44 and I already talked about this earlier what my
14:58:46 questions were, and my questions were not satisfied,
14:58:49 and I don't think there's any way to separate this
14:58:55 contract from the other contract which we just voted
14:58:58 down, because these jobs that would be lost are
14:59:05 performing, those people are performing some of this
14:59:10 mowing.
14:59:11 So because of the way -- this is again a question of
14:59:15 efficiency, and how we are doing this job.
14:59:19 And I don't think there's any way you can say we are
14:59:21 giving this contract and it's seasonal so we are going
14:59:26 to give it to an outside vendor but it's not going to
14:59:30 affect our employees.
14:59:32 Well, we know that people were laid off last year.
14:59:35 You know that people are going to be laid off next
14:59:37 year.
14:59:38 We know that these things are happening.
14:59:40 So there's no way to say, I know that Santiago will
14:59:45 give an explanation about how this is affecting
14:59:50 manpower but it just defies logic.

14:59:53 Our lawns have been mowed in the past, and they were
14:59:59 mowed by our city staff according to Karen.
15:00:01 So I am going to vote against this for all the reasons
15:00:04 I voted against the other contract.
15:00:11 >>> Santiago: Not only to revisit it, we are all
15:00:17 working with less reef news to make sure that we can
15:00:19 operate effectively and efficiently.
15:00:21 You know, and I'm just going to say this just for the
15:00:24 listening public.
15:00:25 It's a little disappointing and a little saddening
15:00:29 that there's this opinion that we have been
15:00:31 inefficient, because for the four years I have been
15:00:34 here, our department has operated very, very well.
15:00:39 We have been efficient.
15:00:40 We have been effective.
15:00:41 We have kept our rates low.
15:00:42 We have serviced everyone and anyone and they have
15:00:46 been well maintained.
15:00:47 So I am going put that out there.
15:00:48 And it's not a personal thing.
15:00:52 It's just the way it's been for the past four years.
15:00:54 This contract is a matter of us becoming more

15:00:56 efficient.
15:00:58 In all due respect to Councilwoman Mulhern, it can be
15:01:01 looked at separately from the other contract.
15:01:03 This contract does not impact any current employees.
15:01:08 There are 22 vacant positions that the Parks
15:01:10 Department, in an efficient manner, has held onto in
15:01:14 order to craft the scope for contract that will take
15:01:17 care of all of the mowing needs of the Parks and
15:01:20 Recreation Department, with a cost savings, because if
15:01:24 you balance the cost to do it in-house, with the cost
15:01:27 of this contract, that again does not affect any
15:01:31 existing employees, there's a cost saving of about
15:01:33 $800,000, and that's what we are charged to do as a
15:01:38 responsible administrator, as a responsible director,
15:01:41 to come up with ways to do more with less, and to make
15:01:45 sure that the citizens of Tampa when they visit a
15:01:48 park, they are satisfied with the delivery of service
15:01:51 be it recreationally, be possibly in the maintenance.
15:01:55 So this contract is critical.
15:01:57 And this is nothing new.
15:02:00 We have been contracting out mowing for a very, very
15:02:02 long.

15:02:03 We contracted our clean city.
15:02:06 We have in-house mowing there, and we subsidized,
15:02:11 subcontract with other contract towers maintain all of
15:02:13 our FDOT properties, and we have been doing that in
15:02:15 parks and rec as well.
15:02:17 We have been doing in-house.
15:02:18 We have been doing accommodation in-house and
15:02:20 contractual.
15:02:20 So this isn't new for the Parks Department.
15:02:22 We have been thinking about this prior to amendment
15:02:25 one, prior to efficiency and effectiveness, prior to
15:02:27 all those things.
15:02:28 This is about the department being creative, having to
15:02:31 deal with the demands of the public, the demands of
15:02:35 City Council, the demands of the administration, to
15:02:38 make sure that these facilities function.
15:02:40 We have been in a slow growth season.
15:02:42 The grass has not grown.
15:02:44 We just started getting into this rainy season.
15:02:46 If we don't get mowers out there real soon, we are
15:02:49 going to have overgrown parks, we are going to have
15:02:51 overgrown cemeteries, overgrown what have you, and you

15:02:54 will get the call and I will get the call.
15:02:57 So that's where we are with this contract.
15:02:58 And I would respectfully ask that you approve this
15:03:01 contract apart from the other contract because it is
15:03:05 operationally necessary.
15:03:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder and councilman
15:03:09 Saul-Sena.
15:03:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't know if you are the one to
15:03:15 answer this.
15:03:15 But is anyone familiar with section 48 of the basic
15:03:20 bid award?
15:03:22 I'll just help you.
15:03:23 It says the City of Tampa reserve it is right to award
15:03:25 this bid by division or aggregate total.
15:03:28 Okay.
15:03:28 By division.
15:03:29 Specifically, I just pulled this thing apart.
15:03:32 Division A.
15:03:33 The north parks.
15:03:34 Okay.
15:03:36 That's 39 parks.
15:03:39 Division A-1 is a different set of parks.

15:03:41 Division B is the east park.
15:03:44 23 of them.
15:03:45 Division C is the south parks.
15:03:47 31 of them.
15:03:49 Or 38 of them.
15:03:50 Division D is the west parks.
15:03:53 Okay.
15:03:54 The city administration -- and I don't just throw
15:03:57 these things out just willy-nilly.
15:04:00 City administration puts these bids out together, and
15:04:04 they have the ability under this bidding package to
15:04:06 pull them apart.
15:04:08 So we can't tell them, now, what to do, you're right.
15:04:12 But we can suggest that we need to save $4, 000,000.
15:04:16 And perhaps the way to do that would be to reduce this
15:04:19 instead of being $1.2 million contract to PARS these
15:04:25 out and take out one or two divisions.
15:04:27 That's not to say they are not going to get mowed.
15:04:30 Of course it's not.
15:04:37 It's concern that they would be mowed by the in-house
15:04:39 people that we still have on staff.
15:04:40 I just met them the other day at one of the parks.

15:04:43 Okay.
15:04:44 They got lawn mowers in the backs of the trucks and
15:04:49 there are still lawn mowing guys.
15:04:55 What I am saying is we have suggested ourselves
15:04:59 potentially, this $4, 000,000 loss, and what I am say
15:05:03 saying it's now up to council to help you guys where
15:05:05 to figure out where to do it.
15:05:07 If you all don't like that idea then maybe we defer
15:05:10 this for another three weeks and you come up with a
15:05:12 different way.
15:05:12 And come up with that $4, 000,000 otherwise, we are
15:05:15 going to be subject to tremendous criticism in this
15:05:18 community to say we are not being responsible.
15:05:20 So I will continue to look everywhere I can within
15:05:23 this budget, this agenda and fought agendas as well as
15:05:27 my own office, Charlie, to try to save money where we
15:05:30 can.
15:05:30 If you don't think that's a prudent idea, Santiago, I
15:05:33 know I have said earlier, you work 60 hours a week and
15:05:37 I appreciate it, and you can come up with different
15:05:39 ideas.
15:05:40 But this is the kind of thing that we might have to

15:05:42 do.
15:05:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena and council
15:05:47 M.A.P. Mulhern.
15:05:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think of all of our departments,
15:05:50 parks and recreation has become the most efficient
15:05:56 because you have been faced with the greatest cuts and
15:05:58 increased responsibility.
15:05:59 And the city is to be complimented the county has
15:06:03 decided to get rid of landscaping at the sides of
15:06:07 roads rather than maintain it.
15:06:08 We have creatively figured out ways to save money so
15:06:12 that we can have a beauty of landscaping along the
15:06:14 highway, and meet our responsibilities to our
15:06:18 contracts with the Department of Transportation.
15:06:26 I am going to support this contract today.
15:06:27 Greenturf has been a responsible contractor.
15:06:30 We have had good experiences working with them.
15:06:36 We are not losing any employees by going into this
15:06:38 contract.
15:06:39 And I pledge you fellow council members, I will look
15:06:41 for other places in the budget to cut.
15:06:43 But I think that the thing for to us do today is to

15:06:46 award this contract.
15:06:48 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to ask, Santiago, didn't
15:06:51 you tell me, or Karen told me that all of this mowing
15:06:59 was currently being done by city staff, by parks and
15:07:02 rec.
15:07:02 >>> Currently this mowing is done by folks who do
15:07:06 multiple things.
15:07:07 Again we have been in that period --
15:07:10 >> I no.
15:07:12 >>> That has the urgency to have this contract in
15:07:14 place, 22 folks doing this kind of work at a cost
15:07:17 savings of about $800,000.
15:07:19 >> I understand.
15:07:20 But formerly, they left six month ago it was done by
15:07:26 city park staff.
15:07:27 This isn't a renewal.
15:07:29 Okay.
15:07:29 >>> Before we did it at a combination.
15:07:33 We did it with in-house staff, we contracted out with
15:07:36 Greenturf.
15:07:36 They have been one of our contractors not only in
15:07:38 parks and rec so we have always had to do a

15:07:41 combination of things to do it.
15:07:42 >> Well, either you are using a combination or have
15:07:45 been using a combination or you are using city staff.
15:07:48 That's what I am asking you.
15:07:49 >>> Yes, ma'am.
15:07:52 We have done a combination.
15:07:53 I have answered the question.
15:07:53 >> Karen told me that we were using city staff.
15:08:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's what this contract is.
15:08:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, excuse me, Karen.
15:08:06 First of all, listen, first of all, there's one
15:08:08 chairman here, I think.
15:08:09 Secondly, if you are going to address council you need
15:08:11 to come to the Mike so it will be on the record.
15:08:13 Okay?
15:08:14 We can't have back and forth discussion between the
15:08:16 audience and council.
15:08:18 Okay.
15:08:20 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I am just trying to get a
15:08:23 consistent answer.
15:08:23 So it sounds like the parks are being mowed by your
15:08:28 own staff.

15:08:29 The cemeteries are contracted out.
15:08:32 Okay.
15:08:34 Well, I wasn't really in favor of splitting the baby,
15:08:40 as John wants to do, but I don't see why we can't do
15:08:43 that, continue to have them do the cemeteries and keep
15:08:48 the parks --
15:08:51 Okay.
15:08:52 Well -- were you finished?
15:08:56 >> No.
15:08:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go ahead.
15:08:59 >>MARY MULHERN: And the other thing, and I am probably
15:09:00 repeating myself, everything comes back so many times,
15:09:04 but, you know, if we don't sign that other contract
15:09:09 with staff, we still have the staff.
15:09:11 So you can't tell me that you are giving a private
15:09:15 contract to somebody else, but it's not going to take
15:09:18 work away from or eliminate our jobs.
15:09:23 >>> With this contract -- and I am going to answer to
15:09:27 this contract.
15:09:28 With this contract we are not going to do that.
15:09:30 We are going to maintain our employees, and they are
15:09:32 going to be retasked as Karen mentioned this morning

15:09:35 with other responsibilities that need to be taken care
15:09:37 of in the Parks Department.
15:09:39 Service attendants can do a number of different
15:09:41 things.
15:09:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Sew okay.
15:09:43 So people -- where do these people go who used to --
15:09:48 >>> The 22 have gone on to other jobs, have retired,
15:09:52 have changed jobs within the city, have left the city.
15:09:55 They have been holding onto these positions to make
15:09:57 sure that they could privatize the mowing to be sure
15:10:01 to have better use of the individuals that are in the
15:10:03 department.
15:10:03 And with a cost savings of $800,000 or approximately,
15:10:07 we felt was a good step to become efficient.
15:10:10 And we have always said that we can continue to grow
15:10:13 city government because of the contractual obligations
15:10:15 we have that continue to grow year in and year out and
15:10:20 with less tax revenue we can't afford all those
15:10:22 employees.
15:10:23 So this is a way when you have those opportunities to
15:10:26 go ahead and semi privatize them for your operations.
15:10:34 178 park sites.

15:10:35 96 ball fields.
15:10:36 85 multi-purpose courts.
15:10:38 79 playgrounds.
15:10:39 23 community centers.
15:10:40 18 boat ramps.
15:10:42 13 pools.
15:10:43 5 art studios --
15:10:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, no, no, Santiago. We've got a
15:10:47 contract. I just counted them.
15:10:50 There's 170 parks in that contract.
15:10:51 There's seven cemeteries.
15:10:53 Okay?
15:10:53 >>> Five cemeteries.
15:10:58 >> So we don't want to overstate the cemetery thing.
15:11:00 Bottom line is there's a bunch of parks that need
15:11:04 mowing but maybe there's a different way to skin this
15:11:07 cat and save some of our money in-house.
15:11:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, there's a motion on the
15:11:12 floor.
15:11:13 Now I am not going to support the motion because you
15:11:15 voted to continue.
15:11:19 You voted to continue for three weeks?

15:11:22 What was the motion?
15:11:24 >> It wasn't seconded.
15:11:25 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to make a motion to move
15:11:27 item 24.
15:11:28 >> Second.
15:11:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I am going to support the motion.
15:11:31 One thing you have to be very careful and I hear you
15:11:33 councilman Dingfelder, I know we are a tight budget
15:11:36 year.
15:11:37 >>GWEN MILLER: 22.
15:11:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, 22.
15:11:39 But at the same time, I have been instructed, because
15:11:42 you all have been here longer, that we can only vote a
15:11:46 contract up or down.
15:11:46 You have to be careful when you start micromanaging
15:11:49 the administration.
15:11:50 That's not our area.
15:11:51 Our job is in the contract voting up or down.
15:11:55 Okay.
15:11:56 That's what we have been told.
15:12:01 So the item has been moved and moved by Councilwoman
15:12:05 Miller, seconded by Saul-Sena.

15:12:07 All in favor of the motion signify by saying Aye.
15:12:10 Opposes?
15:12:12 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and
15:12:13 Mulhern voting no.
15:12:16 >>> Thank you, council members.
15:12:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's all of our staff reports and
15:12:20 consent items for today.
15:12:23 >>GWEN MILLER: What about 99?
15:12:27 >> Next item, 98 could not be heard.
15:12:42 >> Move to strike from the agenda.
15:12:43 (Motion carried).
15:12:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 99.
15:12:51 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I also have a letter.
15:12:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ms. Coyle?
15:12:54 >> Mr. chair, we have a letter from the petitioner
15:13:03 Maan Kalouch requesting withdrawal of the petition.
15:13:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.
15:13:11 >> Second.
15:13:12 (Motion carried).
15:13:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 100 requires everyone be sworn.
15:13:18 If you are going to address council this afternoon,
15:13:20 will you please stand?

15:13:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman works that be for all
15:13:23 the items remaining?
15:13:25 >> All the items that are remaining.
15:13:28 (Oath administered by Clerk).
15:13:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open items 100 through 105.
15:13:44 (Motion carried).
15:13:47 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:13:49 Free course, Inc., located at 915 South Howard Avenue,
15:13:54 they are requesting a 4(COP-R).
15:13:55 This request is basically a revision or amendment to
15:14:03 previous ordinance.
15:14:04 It is a new petition just to be clear.
15:14:06 However, it was adopted under 2007-7 with certain
15:14:10 conditions.
15:14:10 Those conditions are actually within the body of the
15:14:12 summary of the request on the first page of the staff
15:14:15 report.
15:14:16 The hours of operation no later than 11 p.m. Sunday
15:14:19 through Thursday, 12 a.m. midnight Friday and
15:14:22 Saturday, there shall be no music played or amplified
15:14:25 on the exterior of the premises, there shall be no
15:14:29 outside pay telephones and lighting installed and the

15:14:32 lights directed a way from surrounding properties with
15:14:34 residential uses.
15:14:36 This is the establishment.
15:14:41 5,386 square feet.
15:14:44 Just to clarify the conditions of the new ordinance,
15:14:48 the request for the petitioner is simply to change the
15:14:51 hours of operation only.
15:14:53 Numbers 2, 3 and 4 of the conditions remain the same.
15:14:57 The hours that they are requesting, Thursday, Friday,
15:14:59 Saturday, open till 2 a.m., Sunday through Wednesday
15:15:02 open till 1 a.m
15:15:04 You will note on the second and third page of the
15:15:07 staff report, the other alcohol establishment is
15:15:10 within 1,000 feet.
15:15:11 One residential zoned pretty within a thousand feet.
15:15:14 A day crest academy dare Cain care, within a thousand
15:15:19 feet.
15:15:21 I'm sure you know the area.
15:15:25 This is Howard, the west side.
15:15:30 To show you the site plan.
15:15:35 This is a building, parking area.
15:15:40 And this is the front of the establishment.

15:15:44 And the parking area.
15:15:45 Then across the street.
15:15:47 Is the extreme health club.
15:15:50 There were no objections from staff.
15:15:56 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
15:15:58 department.
15:15:59 City of Tampa police department has no objection.
15:16:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
15:16:11 Do we have the petitioner here?
15:16:13 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: My address is suite 3700 Bank of
15:16:20 America Plaza.
15:16:22 And this afternoon I have the pleasure of representing
15:16:25 the ownership of the Lime restaurant and joining me
15:16:29 this afternoon are Jeff Baganti, Ben, Steven Lanza of
15:16:35 the ownership group and also a friend and customer of
15:16:38 the Lime, Mr. Leon Mezera.
15:16:41 If each of you gentlemen would raise your hand.
15:16:44 Also this afternoon is Jordan Woshashki, the manager
15:16:50 of the Lime, he's the fellow there day in and day out,
15:16:53 running the restaurant operation.
15:16:53 Jordan is here to answer any questions you may have.
15:16:56 And Cathy explained the sole purpose of the hearing

15:16:59 this afternoon is to address the hours of operation.
15:17:01 None of the other conditions that have been opposed on
15:17:02 the Lime are to be changed and we want to keep the
15:17:09 4(COP-R) designation.
15:17:11 I want to go over a few points for you.
15:17:16 You all have the report, the staff report.
15:17:21 Please go to the third page to the second page and you
15:17:25 will see wet zoned pretty within 1,000 feet.
15:17:30 I would like to start there and explain to you what
15:17:33 the competitors of the Lime have and what they enjoy.
15:17:38 What they have and what they enjoy, they have no
15:17:41 restrictions on their hours.
15:17:42 They are restricted under chapter 3 which closes bars
15:17:47 and restaurants at 3:00.
15:17:51 If you are serving alcoholic beverages.
15:17:53 And if you can geographically picture this, I want to
15:17:58 show you a view of Howard Avenue.
15:18:00 You can see the restaurant right there.
15:18:02 And let me go down a couple of these.
15:18:08 Bern's steakhouse and SideBern's, no limitation.
15:18:14 4(COP) zoning with no restaurant restrictions.
15:18:17 I am not here to disparage any restaurant or

15:18:19 criticize.
15:18:20 I am just telling you these are the facts.
15:18:22 These are all suburban restaurants including our
15:18:24 client.
15:18:25 The Thai question seen which is just north is also a
15:18:32 2(COP-R), no restriction on hours.
15:18:35 717 south, 4(COP-R).
15:18:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Grandoff, anyone here in the
15:18:41 public opposes this, want to address council?
15:18:48 Two people in the rear?
15:18:51 Go ahead.
15:18:52 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: What I am trying to explain is their
15:18:55 competitors, their neighbors have restaurant
15:18:57 operations and they are limited to closing according
15:19:00 to the general rule at 3:00 a.m
15:19:04 The villas down toward Bayshore.
15:19:07 4(COP-R).
15:19:08 Saviccia, 4(COP-R) and a package license.
15:19:14 You can buy package liquor and walk out the door,
15:19:18 package liquor, which is great.
15:19:19 Good competition.
15:19:23 TC Choy on Howard, Sligh, 4(COP-R).

15:19:31 Chipolte's backs up to the Madison Soho project
15:19:37 4(COP-R).
15:19:38 I can go on and on.
15:19:39 I would prefer to hand this to you.
15:19:42 I am going to give you each a list of what I am
15:19:45 reading.
15:20:02 The list I am providing was prepared by Pam Janes the
15:20:06 land zone clerk, she prepared that in response to
15:20:09 Jeff, and you will note that she is e-mailing to the
15:20:13 Jeff and that she noticed to Jeff this is what they
15:20:15 could prepare without charging a fee.
15:20:17 Typically the city charges a fee in a 30 day response
15:20:21 time.
15:20:21 She put this together, but it will detail all of the
15:20:24 wet zonings in the general Platt, Howard, Soho area,
15:20:27 and you will see that Lime, along with Daily Eats, and
15:20:32 Water, and Ciccio and Tony, which coincidentally is
15:20:37 also owned by my client, has these extraordinary
15:20:39 restrictions. Strings and Things also had an
15:20:39 extraordinary restriction.
15:20:43 They have closed.
15:20:44 I noted that to you in the left-hand margin.

15:20:46 By and large, the competitors of the Lime are only
15:20:50 limited by the 3 a.m. restriction.
15:20:53 Now, some of these have PD conditions that deal with
15:20:57 parking, other criteria, but as far as hourly
15:21:03 restrictions what I have explained to you is seen on
15:21:08 the street right now.
15:21:09 I would like to point out a couple things and put them
15:21:13 away with dispatch.
15:21:14 Parking is not a problem.
15:21:17 My clients have the right to use over 156 parking
15:21:23 spaces between their property, the daily eats
15:21:27 property, extreme fitness across the street.
15:21:29 They have 43 employees considering all shifts, and we
15:21:33 were speaking a little while ago about fairness and
15:21:36 what people are going through.
15:21:38 43 employees at this restaurant, which have an
15:21:42 estimated dependency of about 20 to 24 people that are
15:21:45 depending upon salaries of 43 employees.
15:21:49 This is primarily a dinner restaurant.
15:21:52 I have the menu here if you would like to look at
15:21:55 this.
15:21:55 I am not going to file this.

15:22:00 Also a lunch and catering business.
15:22:07 I have enjoyed it, our firm has, many of you may have,
15:22:11 been in the car to drive around.
15:22:13 They cater out of that office, also.
15:22:15 We have quarterly reports proving that 51% of food is
15:22:22 served on a quarterly basis and annual basis.
15:22:25 There's no objection from the police department as to
15:22:27 any issues.
15:22:28 All background checks are proper and in order.
15:22:36 In summary, this boils down to a fairness issue.
15:22:42 The original wet zoning was granted with this
15:22:45 restriction.
15:22:46 In my words, to give the Lime operation a probationary
15:22:51 period to prove that they are worthy of equal
15:22:54 treatment under the law that others are enjoying that
15:22:58 are competing against them.
15:23:00 My client simply wants a fair marketplace.
15:23:02 They want a fair playing field.
15:23:05 I think the suggested hours which are still more
15:23:10 restrictive than what the general ordinance provides
15:23:12 through to the general competitors is a very fair
15:23:14 suggestion.

15:23:16 We respectfully request your approval this afternoon.
15:23:19 And I will remain available for any questions and for
15:23:21 rebuttal.
15:23:33 >>MARY MULHERN: Mr. Grandoff, both those restaurants
15:23:35 you mentioned on Howard, Bern's and SideBern's, and
15:23:38 all of those, they may have the ability to stay open,
15:23:42 but do any of them stay open till 2 a.m.?
15:23:47 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: I don't know for a fact.
15:23:49 >> I think that's probably why, because they are not
15:23:54 the kind of restaurant that would stay open that late.
15:23:56 They wouldn't have -- because they are more fine
15:23:58 dining or family oriented.
15:24:01 I live in the neighborhood, and frequent both.
15:24:06 I'm guessing -- no one has questioned it because their
15:24:12 hours don't go until then.
15:24:14 And it wouldn't have occurred to anyone to restrict
15:24:16 them.
15:24:16 >> But they have the privilege.
15:24:16 >> Right.
15:24:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions?
15:24:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have no questions.
15:24:30 I'll wait until the public is done.

15:24:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Come forward.
15:24:41 You have three minutes.
15:24:42 Come on.
15:24:42 If you want to speak, come on down, please.
15:24:45 Three minutes.
15:24:48 State your name and address.
15:24:49 >>> Ann Pittman.
15:24:51 I'm a resident of Parkland Estates.
15:24:53 I'm also the vice-president of the Parkland Estates
15:24:56 civic club and I'm representing the homeowners
15:25:00 association today.
15:25:04 Dennis Wagner is the president of the Parkland Estates
15:25:11 civic club.
15:25:11 He could not be here today because of a conflict of
15:25:13 interest with his law firm and the Lime so I'm here in
15:25:15 his stead.
15:25:17 Our neighborhood is comprised of approximately 300
15:25:21 homes.
15:25:22 We are an active civic club.
15:25:24 We meet monthly to discuss crime watch, beautification
15:25:27 issues, planned neighborhood events and gatherings and
15:25:31 to discuss larger issues that come up from time to

15:25:33 time.
15:25:35 Concerning a request being made by Lime at 915 South
15:25:39 Howard Avenue, the overwhelming majority of our
15:25:41 residents do not want Lime to be granted extended
15:25:44 hours.
15:25:48 The board took a vote and unanimously agreed to
15:25:51 respectfully request that you deny their petition for
15:25:54 later hours.
15:25:56 And I would now like to read some of the many comments
15:25:59 that have been made regarding this issue.
15:26:05 Mike Rosen said: I agree with those -- but once you
15:26:11 see the Lime open past midnight there's nothing to
15:26:19 prevent others from following suit.
15:26:22 I believe
15:26:24 D.C. Jeffries says, if one restaurant gets extended
15:26:30 hours then others will complain to the City Council
15:26:33 that all should be entitled to the same treatment.
15:26:36 This increase it is parking, the noise problems, as
15:26:39 well as the number of potential people wandering
15:26:42 through our neighborhood.
15:26:43 Late nightclubbing should remain in the downtown or
15:26:46 Ybor City area and not a density populated residential

15:26:48 neighborhood.
15:26:52 Tom and Angie van dance, they live in Parkland
15:26:58 Estates, we have lived there nine years, we do not
15:27:03 support extended hours, this is a residential area
15:27:05 with families and children. We support the
15:27:07 restaurants on Howard but do not feel it should become
15:27:10 a late night bar scene.
15:27:12 Before opening in this hour the hours would be until
15:27:14 midnight.
15:27:16 There are advantages and disadvantages to living in a
15:27:17 neighborhood in the city.
15:27:19 We knew this before moving into Parkland.
15:27:22 The owners also knew this before moving into our
15:27:25 neighborhood.
15:27:25 Please help us maintain a family environment.
15:27:28 Mike and Leslie, I appreciate having them there as
15:27:32 they add to the area but I feel it would be pushing
15:27:34 the envelope to stay open later.
15:27:38 They are not staying open to serve more food.
15:27:41 We are not in favor of them staying open later.
15:27:44 Jim at 2815 west Morrison Avenue, pleas do not approve
15:27:52 the request for a greater risk of families and

15:27:55 communities.
15:27:56 Please do not permit the responsible families that
15:28:00 make South Tampa great be overrun.
15:28:05 Appreciate the delicate balance.
15:28:09 Personally, it's like the field of dreams movie, if
15:28:16 you build it they will come.
15:28:18 Right now there's sufficient parking only because
15:28:19 there is not a late night crowd.
15:28:22 (Bell sounds).
15:28:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, ma'am.
15:28:25 Next speaker.
15:28:26 >>> I would like to say I'm available for questions
15:28:28 and I would also like rebuttal.
15:28:30 [ Laughter ]
15:28:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You are good.
15:28:37 >>> Don McLean, 2304 west Bristol Avenue.
15:28:41 My property abuts the daily eats parking lot, and
15:28:47 probably 250, 300 feet away from my house is the Lime
15:28:51 parking lot.
15:28:53 Extending the hours will cut into my family time to
15:28:57 sleep and have peace for a property they purchased
15:29:01 before we moved here.

15:29:04 We have been here, the neighborhood has been here,
15:29:07 they have come in.
15:29:07 We don't have a problem with the hours they have now.
15:29:09 But I think extending the hours is pushing the
15:29:12 envelope.
15:29:13 I understand that times are hard, and they need to do
15:29:16 things to try to increase their profits.
15:29:18 But they can't put that hardship on my family and my
15:29:21 neighbors and the people in my neighborhood that have
15:29:24 worked long and hard to keep their property values up.
15:29:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public?
15:29:34 Okay.
15:29:35 Rebuttal.
15:29:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Shelby says I should have my
15:29:47 part and then he can have rebuttal.
15:29:51 I just want to follow up.
15:29:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: However council wishes to do it, but
15:29:56 due process would say petitioner gets the last word
15:29:59 before council closes the hearing to deliberate.
15:30:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In the back of my book,
15:30:10 Mr. Chairman asked a good point at the beginning of
15:30:11 this hearing.

15:30:12 He said, you know, is anybody in opposition?
15:30:16 Well, sadly enough there's only two folks here today,
15:30:20 and I emphasis today, who oppose this.
15:30:23 But now what?
15:30:25 If we had second hearing at nine, which I'm sure Mr.
15:30:28 Grandoff wouldn't object to, if we had second hearing
15:30:30 at night, and I know for a fact that this room would
15:30:33 be packed, because Parkland Estates, and especially
15:30:36 the folks up in Bristol, feel very passionately about
15:30:40 these issues.
15:30:40 And the reason I ask that for these e-mails is, my
15:30:46 office received all these e-mails.
15:30:47 I was in the process of counting but it looks like
15:30:50 about 30, 35 e-mails.
15:30:51 It looks like it's unanimous that these folks don't
15:30:53 want it.
15:30:54 I am not going to read all these comments back into
15:30:57 the record, because the young lady already started
15:31:01 reading them.
15:31:01 But I do want to emphasize what their point is,
15:31:04 because they are not here.
15:31:05 Because we have had these in the daytime.

15:31:07 And I don't know why we do it in the daytime.
15:31:09 But that's another story.
15:31:10 But the objections they have are very legitimate, and
15:31:15 they are competent, substantial objections.
15:31:18 They are talking about litter in their neighborhood.
15:31:20 I know that for a fact.
15:31:21 Up and down Bristol Avenue, okay, and I can't pinpoint
15:31:25 it specifically to this restaurant.
15:31:27 But all of those restaurants contribute to the
15:31:29 nuisance.
15:31:31 The neighborhood has to coexist.
15:31:34 And I am going to guess that many people in the
15:31:36 neighborhood are customers of all these
15:31:38 establishments.
15:31:38 They have to coexist with these restaurants, and these
15:31:41 bars.
15:31:44 When Lime came in, when Daily Eats came in, we had
15:31:50 long discussions and Mr. Michelini was the
15:31:53 representative to come to a compromise.
15:31:54 We came to a compromise to get to these hours.
15:31:57 All right?
15:31:58 We shouldn't bust this compromise just because it two

15:32:01 years later.
15:32:01 These people have legitimate objections about drunken
15:32:04 people up and down, noise, trash, bottles, we hear
15:32:08 about it up and down Howard all the time.
15:32:11 This is part of the record.
15:32:13 And I think these people run great restaurants, and
15:32:16 I'm supportive of that.
15:32:17 But let's not upset the apple cart.
15:32:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In the spirit of allowing the
15:32:25 petitioner to hear comments so he can have an
15:32:28 opportunity to rebut them, I would echo everything Mr.
15:32:31 Dingfelder just said.
15:32:32 First of all, I want to start off by saying I'm a
15:32:34 patron of all these restaurants.
15:32:36 I go there all the time.
15:32:37 It's not that I don't think they have great food and
15:32:39 they are wonderful places.
15:32:40 The question is the hours of operation.
15:32:42 And I was here for maybe a three-hour hearing the
15:32:44 first time around.
15:32:45 I mean, it was contentious.
15:32:47 It went on and on and on.

15:32:49 I felt like we heard from everyone in Parkland Estates
15:32:52 individually.
15:32:53 Compromise we arrived at seemed to me to be reasonable
15:32:56 and I feel like there should almost be a statute of
15:33:00 limitation where is the neighbors shouldn't have to
15:33:02 keep coming down every so many years.
15:33:04 It's like a kid who tries to wear you down and say,
15:33:08 this is your curfew, and then they keep asking and
15:33:10 asking, and they keep pushing the envelope and it's
15:33:13 exhausting for everyone.
15:33:14 Thanks.
15:33:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
15:33:18 >>MARY MULHERN: This is my neighborhood so I don't
15:33:20 have to recuse myself, do I?
15:33:23 I lived in this neighborhood, in a couple different
15:33:26 houses for 12 years, almost 12 years.
15:33:29 And the character of Howard Avenue has changed.
15:33:31 And one of my favorite restaurants even before I moved
15:33:34 here was CHI an toe ton Y's an they do run very nice
15:33:45 restaurants but the character in our neighborhood, I
15:33:47 lived-he that's not the only neighborhood.
15:33:52 But the character of Howard Avenue has changed so much

15:33:55 in it just feels like a bar scene, and meanwhile, we
15:34:01 are all getting older over in new suburban, getting
15:34:05 middle aged and our Howard Avenue is getting younger
15:34:09 which is enjoyable too and is nice for our kids when
15:34:11 they come of age.
15:34:12 But it really does have that quality.
15:34:16 I did notice I was going by Lime recently, and I
15:34:20 noticed all the -- you have a lot of big screens in
15:34:24 there, and I thought, oh, man, is that a bar?
15:34:27 And I wasn't really sure because I don't get out much.
15:34:30 I go over to the yogurt place, that's about -- and to
15:34:34 Starbuck's.
15:34:35 But I really feel like much the neighbors have a very
15:34:42 legitimate -- especially people who live right behind
15:34:45 it because when you live on the edge of a Street
15:34:47 that's commercial, have to deal with parking and
15:34:49 everything, you know, you should know what you are
15:34:52 getting into when you buy your house.
15:34:53 And if he's lived there awhile, it formerly was an
15:34:59 Italian restaurant that had a different character,
15:35:02 very quiet, and old.
15:35:05 So I think I'm surprised that judge Crumbley isn't

15:35:10 here, because he's the one that usually makes the good
15:35:14 arguments for limiting the wet zoning.
15:35:17 But I just feel like I know these are restaurants and
15:35:20 I know they are good food, but I think keeping them
15:35:23 open and having bar hours is just going to continue to
15:35:29 change the trend, the character of this neighborhood.
15:35:33 So I don't think it's compatible, 2 a.m. liquor
15:35:39 license, it's not compatible with the neighborhood,
15:35:41 the family residential quality of the neighborhood.
15:35:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby.
15:35:49 Jurisdiction just so the record is clear, you
15:35:51 mentioned this is your neighborhood.
15:35:52 Do you live within 250 feet of --
15:35:56 >> Oh, no.
15:35:56 >>> You live close by?
15:35:59 >>MARY MULHERN: I lived two blocks south and two
15:36:02 blocks west.
15:36:06 Not half a mile.
15:36:07 Quarter mile at the most.
15:36:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't know what the motive of the
15:36:12 question was.
15:36:13 But everyone if she did get notified she still has a

15:36:16 right to vote.
15:36:17 She has in a interest.
15:36:18 In a gain and in a loss.
15:36:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I wasn't notified.
15:36:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I want to be clear -- and thank you,
15:36:27 Mr. Miranda, for the question, was that it was clear
15:36:32 that you would have a legal obligation and a right to
15:36:35 vote in this.
15:36:36 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
15:36:38 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
15:36:39 I would also like it's quasi-judicial, but you still
15:36:48 make your decision on the record presented here today,
15:36:50 and that you feel you can be fair and impartial.
15:36:54 If you can say that then it appropriate.
15:36:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, yeah, I can be informed.
15:37:04 Oh, I need to swear?
15:37:06 >> No.
15:37:07 >>REBECCA KERT: Just state for the record that you
15:37:08 will be fair and impartial and make your decision on
15:37:10 the record.
15:37:10 >> I can be fair -- I will be fair and impartial and
15:37:14 make my decision on the record.

15:37:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda.
15:37:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me talk about the record.
15:37:23 I wasn't here I don't believe when the Lime was done.
15:37:25 I was here when Tony and Ciccio was done.
15:37:30 I remember that and it was a very fine operation.
15:37:32 Since then, they have grown to more than one outlet.
15:37:35 So I have to be refreshed.
15:37:38 Was there conditions put in at the time that they came
15:37:41 in for this rezoning? Because earlier, I talked about
15:37:51 all I needed to answer.
15:37:52 >> Here's the conditions.
15:37:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Caetano wants to hear them.
15:38:00 >> Mr. Caetano earlier said I have a problem.
15:38:03 I'll let him read his own.
15:38:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: On the first page of the staff
15:38:13 report.
15:38:14 Coming your way.
15:38:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you let me know how many
15:38:32 restaurants are near and how late do they stay open?
15:38:35 The restaurants in proximity there.
15:38:38 A block, two blocks.
15:38:39 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Immediately next door, here is the

15:38:45 Lime restaurant.
15:38:46 Immediately next door is Hugo.
15:38:48 Hugo's has the potential to stay open until 3:00 a.m.
15:38:51 >> How late do they stay open?
15:38:53 >>> I don't know.
15:38:59 I'll rejoin that issue in a moment.
15:39:01 Going north, daily eats is restricted to 11:00.
15:39:06 Going further north, the Thai palace has no
15:39:09 restriction and a potential to go to 3:00.
15:39:11 717 can go to 3:00 if they wish.
15:39:14 TC Choy, Bern's, SideBern's, potential to compete in R
15:39:23 a fair marketplace with fair competition.
15:39:30 You have to question -- first of all, I have
15:39:32 absolutely no issue with Ms. Mulhern's impartiality.
15:39:36 So no problem at all.
15:39:41 I want to get back to the issue of the trash in the
15:39:43 neighborhood, et cetera.
15:39:45 Lime is closing at 11:00 and 12:00 right now.
15:39:49 There's nothing in the record that proves that they
15:39:53 have been the cause of this trash and noise, nor that
15:39:56 they will cause more trash and noise if they stay open
15:39:59 later.

15:40:00 So they are closing before everybody else.
15:40:02 And there seems to be some reason which I cannot put a
15:40:06 finger on as to why the Lime will all of a sudden
15:40:12 breaks the camel's bark here.
15:40:14 So please understand, they are closing before anyone
15:40:17 else.
15:40:18 When they close, their customers, this is the real
15:40:23 life, can potentially leave their cars in the parking
15:40:25 lot, walk down to SideBern's and stay at SideBern's
15:40:29 till 3:00 in the morning and come back so you are not
15:40:33 going to flush out Soho by closing Lime.
15:40:37 All you are going to do is restrict someone from
15:40:39 competing on a level playing field.
15:40:41 SoHo district was created according to 27-461 to have
15:40:46 an entertainment district, enhance and promote a
15:40:50 pedestrian environment while creating an active and
15:40:53 interesting ambience, and to be compatible with
15:40:57 surrounding residential neighborhoods.
15:40:58 Totally understand that.
15:41:01 But it's supposed to be an entertainment district.
15:41:03 It has to allow some folks some flexibility to
15:41:05 compete.

15:41:06 We would suggest that as a compromise, in a spirit of
15:41:11 compromise, that my clients would suggest to have a
15:41:16 conditional one-year approval of the proposed hours
15:41:20 and see how it goes.
15:41:22 They have been doing very well at 11:00 and 12:00.
15:41:24 There's nothing in the record that proves that they
15:41:26 have been an outlaw.
15:41:27 Police report, no issue.
15:41:29 LBC, no issue.
15:41:33 Justin is one of the owner, he lives in New Suburb
15:41:36 Beautiful, Palma Ceia.
15:41:39 In his own backyard.
15:41:40 They know this business.
15:41:41 They have a superb manager.
15:41:43 They are asking for a chance.
15:41:44 I respectfully request that you approve them if you
15:41:47 wish on a conditional basis.
15:41:51 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman.
15:41:56 You look a little different.
15:42:00 I wasn't here when the police report was read.
15:42:04 Mr. Miller, did you read anything into the record
15:42:07 about the Lime?

15:42:07 >>GWEN MILLER: He had no objections.
15:42:11 >>> Yes, no objections from the police department.
15:42:13 And there were some comments in reference to the
15:42:20 complaints of the neighborhood and the hours.
15:42:22 That's been an ongoing thing.
15:42:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: That will happen in any place
15:42:25 where you have this type of atmosphere.
15:42:27 And it's really not the Lime's problem.
15:42:30 It's the police department's problem.
15:42:31 They have got to get down there.
15:42:33 And the thing is, I could support a one-year
15:42:37 conditional, and let's keep the license as they have
15:42:42 now.
15:42:44 The additional will be for the additional hours that
15:42:46 they are going to be open.
15:42:48 So a year from now, if the Lime has had a number of
15:42:52 phone calls there about the police department being
15:42:56 there, and then they have to come back, and get it
15:43:00 renewed or revoked.
15:43:01 But they still keep their regular license to 11:00.
15:43:05 With today's economy, it's tough out there.
15:43:07 I'm in the retail business.

15:43:09 Believe me.
15:43:10 It's tough.
15:43:12 We all know that.
15:43:13 The far closures, you go down to the county office
15:43:18 building every week, there's hundreds of people there
15:43:20 buying property, property that would sell for 400,000,
15:43:24 they are letting it go for 190,000.
15:43:27 Things are tough back here.
15:43:29 And I don't think we need to handicap any businessman,
15:43:34 any small businessman.
15:43:36 I know I didn't vote for the Lime when I was -- when
15:43:39 they came before us before because I was advised that
15:43:46 being that I'm in the same shopping center that I
15:43:49 would probably have a beneficial reward because more
15:43:53 clients would come to the Lime, which is not true.
15:43:55 But I took the advice of my counselor, Mr. Martin
15:43:59 Selby.
15:44:02 But, anyway, I could support a conditional for one
15:44:06 year additional and give it a shot.
15:44:09 I think it's worth it.
15:44:12 I don't know how well the Lime does down there.
15:44:14 I don't go down there.

15:44:15 I don't have time.
15:44:18 But I could support that.
15:44:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda?
15:44:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: As I stated early earlier, I was
15:44:27 not involved in the original rezoning of the Lime.
15:44:29 My conflict is not with the Lime, it's not with the
15:44:32 attorney of the Lime, it's with myself.
15:44:35 Let me explain that.
15:44:38 About two or three months ago, we passed a 4-3 vote,
15:44:44 the same type operation on a restaurant on Himes and
15:44:48 Kennedy, opening at 3:00 and having to sell alcohol.
15:44:54 I voted against it because I think a restaurant should
15:44:56 be treated different than a bar.
15:44:59 So therefore the conflict is not with the good owners
15:45:02 or with the attorney that they have hired, it's with
15:45:05 myself.
15:45:05 I don't usually go back on my word.
15:45:08 I voted that way, and I'm consistent when I vote.
15:45:11 I try to be consistent when I vote.
15:45:13 So that's a dilemma that's facing me.
15:45:15 I also can count.
15:45:16 There's five members here.

15:45:19 And two have already spoken.
15:45:22 I think the way you heard against.
15:45:25 One has spoken for, the way of things happening.
15:45:29 I don't think there's four votes to pass and I don't
15:45:31 think there's four votes for it not to pass.
15:45:34 So with your permission -- well, I thought it was a
15:45:41 council member.
15:45:42 But what I am saying is we don't have enough votes
15:45:45 here to pass or deny.
15:45:46 That's how I count votes.
15:45:47 I don't know what you all are counting.
15:45:50 But this is going to have to be held.
15:45:53 I'm sorry to say this.
15:45:56 Unless the other two council members are here and come
15:45:58 back in.
15:45:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby is going to see.
15:46:01 >>> It's not going to pass.
15:46:03 It's not going to fail.
15:46:05 It's going to be a no vote no matter which way you go.
15:46:09 So, I mean, we do have a 6:00, if I make it to 6:00.
15:46:16 So we haven't moved much -- I got here at 8:00 this
15:46:18 morning reading a lot of these documents.

15:46:20 Now we have another vote coming in so we are getting
15:46:23 closer to that old vote.
15:46:26 So maybe we can continue.
15:46:28 >>MARY MULHERN: I thought if Mr. Miranda would just
15:46:31 keep talking, eventually.
15:46:38 A filibuster over there.
15:46:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
15:46:45 >> Second.
15:46:45 (Motion carried).
15:46:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Want to read or what?
15:46:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Madam Chair.
15:46:56 I totally agree with what Ms. Saul-Sena said earlier.
15:46:59 This has only been two years or less since this thing
15:47:04 was granted to start with.
15:47:05 And there was long, long discussion from the
15:47:08 community, from the neighborhood, and we struck a
15:47:10 compromise.
15:47:12 Okay.
15:47:12 Nothing changed in two years.
15:47:14 They are not going out of business.
15:47:15 As a matter of fact, their business is thriving.
15:47:17 Every time I drive by they are doing great and I wish

15:47:19 them well.
15:47:20 And they seem like wonderful nice young people.
15:47:23 Okay.
15:47:24 But the bottom line is -- and I am going to make a
15:47:27 motion to deny it.
15:47:29 Motion to deny --
15:47:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
15:47:33 >> Chapter 3, Section 3-70-A-6 of our code of
15:47:37 ordinances makes provisions for the City Council to
15:47:39 waive the distance separation between residentially
15:47:41 zoned property and wet zoned establishments in the
15:47:44 sale of alcohol as an incidental purpose of the
15:47:46 business, in this case a restaurant.
15:47:50 We are not picking on this restaurant.
15:47:51 If I had to do it all over again, I don't think
15:47:56 McDenton's is right.
15:47:58 I don't even remember approving 717.
15:48:00 Maybe I did.
15:48:01 Okay.
15:48:02 But I wish I hadn't if we didn't put conditions on
15:48:04 there.
15:48:05 It is our job to protect those neighborhoods and at

15:48:09 the same time encourage business and to make sure that
15:48:11 we do it in a compatible way.
15:48:14 And right now, with the zoning, with the wet zoning
15:48:17 they have, it's fair.
15:48:21 It allows them to operate, allows them to go up to the
15:48:24 hours that they have, you know, whether or not other
15:48:28 things that have been grandfathered in for a long time
15:48:31 is neither here nor there to me because we have
15:48:34 testimony on the record.
15:48:35 I am going to make sure that all these e-mails we have
15:48:38 from adjacent neighbors who have already had concerns
15:48:40 about the existing operation of Lime.
15:48:47 Okay.
15:48:49 Greta books lives two houses down Bristol.
15:48:51 She says hardly a Friday or Saturday goes by without a
15:48:55 deposit of beer bottles, takeout, plastic tableware
15:48:58 being left in my bushes and on my driveway.
15:49:01 I had vagrants take up residents one morning on my
15:49:04 porch.
15:49:05 I'm raising my two young children on the street and I
15:49:07 didn't want to raise them to be in a bar zone.
15:49:10 She says not much eating goes on after 10 p.m.

15:49:13 If you are eating at 2 in the morning you should be
15:49:15 doing it at a drive-through on your way home.
15:49:18 You know, this is the kind of thing that all these
15:49:20 adjacent neighbors are saying in this competent
15:49:24 substantial evidence from the neighborhood.
15:49:26 And I'm sorry to the nice young gentlemen who are
15:49:31 doing this, but you have got to do it somewhere else.
15:49:34 Go do it in Ybor City.
15:49:35 Go do it wherever.
15:49:36 But not on Howard Avenue.
15:49:40 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
15:49:41 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to ask a question, for
15:49:50 legal to make sure that -- agree with Mr. Dingfelder
15:49:56 but I want to make sure that we have the ability to do
15:49:58 this.
15:50:03 I was going to cite section 373 about the conditions
15:50:09 that council imposes on wet zoning, if during a public
15:50:12 hearing petition for the sale of alcoholic beverages,
15:50:16 it is determined by the City Council that the granting
15:50:18 of the alcoholic beverage zoning petition could have
15:50:21 an adverse effect on effects on residences,
15:50:25 establishments or other properties within the general

15:50:26 vicinity of the subject property of the alcoholic
15:50:28 beverage, zoning petition, City Council may grant the
15:50:32 alcoholic beverage zoning petition conditioned upon
15:50:34 the petitioner performing or refraining.
15:50:42 So I think that is what we have done.
15:50:46 And we have heard from what the former council did,
15:50:50 and can set some limitations, and I think if you read
15:50:57 section 1 under that, it talks about any conditions,
15:51:01 limitations or requirement of code by the City Council
15:51:03 shall relate to the business hours of the
15:51:05 establishment located on the subject property of the
15:51:09 alcoholic beverage zoning petition, the location of
15:51:11 said business establishment, or the sanitary
15:51:14 regulations relative to said location, to ensure that
15:51:17 the public health, safety and general welfare are
15:51:20 protected.
15:51:21 And I think that's we want to continue to do with
15:51:24 this, is to -- the general public health and welfare
15:51:31 of that neighborhood.
15:51:36 This is basically a new petition.
15:51:38 So 370-A-6 as Mr. Dingfelder cited is the actual
15:51:41 provision which allows you to grant the waiver, and

15:51:49 adverse effects that he found from there, and I think
15:51:51 that 370 -- the 3-73 states that you went so far as to
15:51:57 try to determine if there are other conditions that
15:52:01 allows this, to deal with the adverse effects, and you
15:52:04 have determined what those conditions were in the
15:52:06 existing ordinance.
15:52:11 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to add an amendment
15:52:13 to 130, with a one-year conditional.
15:52:16 >> Second.
15:52:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe the motion is to deny
15:52:27 that's before council now.
15:52:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's more of a substitute.
15:52:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It sounds like you are asking for a
15:52:34 substitute motion, in effect a motion to amend.
15:52:39 It's actually contradictory to the intent of the
15:52:41 motion that's on the floor.
15:52:42 It would be appropriate to see if that motion does not
15:52:46 pass.
15:52:46 Then your motion would be in order.
15:52:50 Madam Chair, that's my understanding.
15:52:54 Unless of course the you are asking the maker of the
15:52:56 motion to modify his motion.

15:52:59 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Well, that's what I said.
15:53:01 I want an amendment to the motion to extend it -- I
15:53:04 know he said deny.
15:53:05 Bring it to 130 with a one-year conditional.
15:53:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I appreciate your offer.
15:53:14 I know you have a good heart and you always think
15:53:15 about the small businessman.
15:53:17 But in this case, I can't accept it.
15:53:20 Thank you, though.
15:53:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion for denial.
15:53:23 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
15:53:24 Opposed, Nay.
15:53:27 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano voting no.
15:53:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
15:53:34 Item 101.
15:53:46 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:53:52 Case WZ 08-112, Robert walker, asking for a 2(COP-R),
15:53:58 at 304 East Davis Boulevard, unit A.
15:54:02 They are requesting a 2(COP-R) for sale of beer and
15:54:04 wine in conjunction with a restaurant.
15:54:07 The restaurant wet zoning area will contain 1,614
15:54:10 square feet, approximately 1491 square feet will be

15:54:14 located in a one-story building, will have 39 seats,
15:54:19 35 seats will be inside.
15:54:20 Sale of alcohol will be incidental to the restaurant.
15:54:24 The wet zoned properties within a thousand feet are on
15:54:26 page one.
15:54:27 There is one residential property within a thousand
15:54:28 feet.
15:54:29 And one institutional use, the David island Baptist
15:54:33 church within a thousand feet.
15:54:40 This is Davis Boulevard.
15:54:41 This is the end unit in this particular shopping
15:54:46 center.
15:54:48 It's next to the Handy Convenience Store.
15:54:53 This is the end unit here.
15:55:01 Called the Sip Lounge. Sushi and sake.
15:55:02 Staff had no objections.
15:55:04 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
15:55:08 department.
15:55:08 City of Tampa police has no objection to this wet
15:55:10 zoning.
15:55:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
15:55:19 >> My name is Dixie. I'm here representing Sip

15:55:22 Lounge.
15:55:23 They are requesting a 2(COP-R) for beer and wine.
15:55:29 Their hours are Sunday through Thursday 11 a.m. to 10
15:55:31 p.m.
15:55:34 Friday and Saturday 11 a.m. till 2 a.m.
15:55:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone to speak in opposition
15:55:39 to number 101?
15:55:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
15:55:43 >> Second.
15:55:43 (Motion carried).
15:55:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think it's a little presumptuous
15:55:47 to paint "Sake" on a sign before you get your
15:55:50 approval, before you are successful here.
15:55:59 I would like to move an ordinance making lawful the
15:56:01 sale of beverages containing alcohol of more than 1%
15:56:03 by weight not more than 14% by weight and wines
15:56:06 regardless of alcoholic content beer and wine 2(COP-R)
15:56:09 for consumption on the premises only in connection
15:56:11 with a restaurant business establishment on that
15:56:14 certain lot, plot or tract ever land located at 304
15:56:18 East Davis Boulevard, A, Tampa, Florida, as more
15:56:21 particularly described in section 2 hereof wavering

15:56:23 certain restrictions as to distance, based upon
15:56:25 certain findings, providing for repeal of all
15:56:28 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
15:56:30 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
15:56:32 (Motion carried).
15:56:33 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott and Dingfelder
15:56:38 being absent at vote.
15:56:39 Second reading of the ordinance will be July 17th
15:56:43 at 9:30 a.m.
15:56:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 102.
15:56:56 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:57:00 Case WZ-08-113 for Fuma LLC located at 218 Westshore
15:57:11 plaza. They are requesting a 4(COP-X) in conjunction
15:57:14 with retail cigar store, and accessory services and/or
15:57:21 a bona fide restaurant.
15:57:22 The establishment will have approximately 7,740 square
15:57:26 feet.
15:57:26 It is located within Westshore plaza mall on the
15:57:29 ground floor Street level.
15:57:31 The establishment will have approximately 157 feet.
15:57:37 Sale of alcohol will be incidental to the primary
15:57:39 function. Business.

15:57:40 I have also handed you a letter dated yesterday from
15:57:44 grace Yang of gray Robinson law firm and the
15:57:51 conditions 1 through 5 are noted in this letter and
15:57:54 they have been included in the ordinance.
15:57:57 Very specifically as I stated already, condition 1 is
15:58:00 that the alcohol is incidental and must be incidental
15:58:03 to retail sales, cigars, and cigar related products,
15:58:09 accessory personal services or a bona fide restaurant.
15:58:12 Those are the two general uses of the property that
15:58:16 alcohol can be sold incidentally to.
15:58:19 It is for a 4(COP-X).
15:58:22 Like I said consumption on premises only, beer, wine
15:58:24 and liquor.
15:58:25 The establishment be no earlier than 7 a.m., seven
15:58:29 days a week.
15:58:29 The establishment will be closed at 12 a.m., Sunday
15:58:34 through Thursday, 1 a.m. Friday and Saturday, and then
15:58:37 on December 31st and New Year's Eve only, because
15:58:40 they sometimes fall on different days of the year on
15:58:43 the calendar.
15:58:44 Those particular two days -- I'm sorry, one day, they
15:58:49 will close at 1 a.m., also.

15:58:51 And there will be no outside music from business
15:58:54 establishment.
15:58:55 These conditions were worked through with the Beach
15:58:59 Park homeowners association.
15:59:01 I believe they are here to speak about it as well.
15:59:05 Staff had no objections.
15:59:07 I will show you where this establishment is.
15:59:10 It's toward the western side of Westshore plaza.
15:59:18 It doesn't look like much right now.
15:59:20 But they are going to open this up eventually.
15:59:24 And then this is the -- I don't know if any of you
15:59:28 walk through this hallway.
15:59:29 I think this is J.C. Penney's here.
15:59:34 I'm available for any questions.
15:59:37 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police.
15:59:41 Tampa of police department has no objections.
15:59:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
15:59:48 >>> Grace Yang, with the gray Robinson law firm, 201
15:59:52 North Franklin Street.
15:59:53 I have been sworn.
15:59:54 And I'm the authorized agent for the petitioner.
15:59:57 I'm honored and privileged to have with me today Gary

16:00:00 Bassett, the president of the petitioner.
16:00:07 I would like to hand the podium over to him so he can
16:00:09 go through greater detail of the business model and
16:00:11 his plan hopefully for this new business.
16:00:15 >>> I'm very honored to have you spend a little bit of
16:00:20 time with me, let me explain this concept to you.
16:00:23 I'm very excited about it.
16:00:24 It's going to be a much easier concept or decision for
16:00:27 you all to make than some of the other ones you have
16:00:29 had to make about spending lots of money because I am
16:00:32 going help you make some money by bringing in some new
16:00:35 revenue, or employees and taxes and all sorts of
16:00:38 things.
16:00:40 Grace Yang is handing out a little packet to each of
16:00:42 you that shows some conceptual drawings and gives a
16:00:46 little bit about what I am going to talk about in the
16:00:48 concepts of this new lounge.
16:00:53 Tampa has a distinction of being known as the cigar
16:00:56 city, and this is due to the fact that from 1898 until
16:01:01 almost 1960 virtually every cigar made in the world
16:01:05 was made in Tampa.
16:01:09 At one time over 12,000 people were employed in Tampa

16:01:11 rolling cigars making some 700 million cigars a year.
16:01:16 So that's the heritage of Tampa.
16:01:19 Over the years, that has declined as cigars have been
16:01:25 made offshore and other places when Cuba closed up.
16:01:28 Due to the Cuban influence of these cigar rollers and
16:01:30 their families Tampa became known worldwide for the
16:01:32 best Cuban sandwiches and coffee con lache anywhere.
16:01:40 It was also brought into prominence the comfortable
16:01:43 and stylish shirts warn locally and still embodies the
16:01:47 cigar life style to this day and you will often see
16:01:50 people walking around with a cigar just like the old
16:01:53 days.
16:01:54 All of these components will be embodied by fume a, a
16:01:58 place where one can purchase a piece of our proud pass
16:02:01 past to smoke, drink or wear.
16:02:03 Fuma intends to build a clean air cigar lounge at the
16:02:07 Westshore plaza where the hand rolled cigar affix add
16:02:12 oh can enjoy his past time.
16:02:17 This will allow nonsmoking spouses and friends to
16:02:19 accompany cigar lovers out to dinner, for a cigar,
16:02:23 dessert, and for Cuban coffee without the discomfort
16:02:26 of being immersed in cigar smoke.

16:02:29 This will be done through a once-through air
16:02:32 conditioning situation.
16:02:33 Not only will we employ almost 30 Tampa residents with
16:02:36 the combined payroll of almost $600,000 but we also
16:02:39 plan to spend nearly $2 million in building out this
16:02:42 concept into Westshore plaza, in a space that for 35
16:02:47 years has been made to look like it was almost not
16:02:50 there.
16:02:50 We are going to create a new front similar to what's
16:02:53 been done on the other side with the palm Maggiano PF
16:02:59 Chang to liven up the area and make it look new and
16:03:02 fresh.
16:03:02 Westshore location is critical to our concept due to
16:03:05 its high concentration of business and tourist
16:03:07 activity.
16:03:08 One of the most successful in fact in the country for
16:03:11 square footage.
16:03:13 Westshore district employs nearly 100,000 Tampa
16:03:16 residents as you probably already know, offers over
16:03:18 200,000 square feet of meeting space, currently
16:03:21 contains 31 hotels, with 6700 rooms, and will be
16:03:26 adding another nine hotels within the next 18 months

16:03:29 with another 1875 rooms.
16:03:35 So the 200 restaurants, the hotels, bring a lot of
16:03:37 people in there. You can hardly smoke a cigar in any
16:03:40 one of these locations.
16:03:41 We have a lot of tourists coming to Tampa.
16:03:43 We want to provide a place where they can comfortably
16:03:46 enjoy some of our heritage without offending others.
16:03:50 What I would like to do is put the conceptual drawings
16:03:53 that you see in your hands down here.
16:03:59 What my intention was, we will have a large humidor
16:04:06 which is represented here, as people come in, they
16:04:08 will see this.
16:04:09 It's very unique.
16:04:10 It will be a thousand square feet which is large for a
16:04:13 humidor, and this center island right here will be
16:04:16 slowly rotating showing the very finest that the world
16:04:20 has to offer for cigars for those people who are
16:04:23 interested.
16:04:23 As one comes in, there will be a smoking bar.
16:04:25 People that smoke cigars tend to like to sit around
16:04:29 and converse.
16:04:30 Smoking is a very social thing, cigar smoking.

16:04:33 Since cigar smokers are not addicted to tobacco like
16:04:36 cigarette smokers they orphan times come in for a
16:04:38 period of time, an hour, hour and a half and want to
16:04:40 share a cigar with a business associate or something.
16:04:44 We want to offer that.
16:04:45 And that's why the counter as you see is broken up for
16:04:47 everybody to be able to see each other and talk.
16:04:50 Now, around the back of this counter, you will notice
16:04:53 an area that I am pointing to. That will be the part
16:04:57 that has the liquor.
16:04:59 We will open up that portion of the counter.
16:05:01 It will be closed during the day because typically my
16:05:04 experiences, movers and shakers, people that like
16:05:09 cigars do not want to be looking at a bunch of bottles
16:05:11 during the day.
16:05:11 It makes them feel like derelicts.
16:05:13 We don't even want that to be exposed.
16:05:16 This is a time to have coffee, good coffee con lache,
16:05:21 watch the news, read the paper, talk to your friends,
16:05:24 do business, those things.
16:05:27 We anticipate opening up that area, have a nice glass
16:05:32 of wine or malt or good aged port.

16:05:37 God bless them, we want to be there for them but
16:05:40 that's not going to be the crux of our business.
16:05:44 That's just going to be an add-on. In this area this
16:05:48 area will be putting out cigars, labeling them,
16:05:50 placing them, storing them, so forth.
16:05:52 There's a storage room back here for cigar
16:05:54 accessories, humidors, cutters, lighters, there's a
16:05:58 storage here for liquor that will be locked up.
16:06:01 This will be, in this area, a single chair barbershop.
16:06:05 And the reason that I want this in the concept, in the
16:06:10 old days, one of the measures that man had was sitting
16:06:13 back in a big comfortable chair that leaned them back,
16:06:18 hot towel over his face, nice shaving cream, a nice
16:06:22 shave, all the while with a big stogie sticking out of
16:06:25 his mouth.
16:06:26 I want to reproduce that because there's really no
16:06:29 place that can you can do that anymore.
16:06:31 For a man that wants to enjoy that I want to give him
16:06:34 an opportunity to do so.
16:06:35 Also we are going to have a shoe shine.
16:06:37 If you want to sit back and take your Shaw's off while
16:06:41 you are smoking a cigar and get a shoe shine, there

16:06:43 you go.
16:06:44 We want to be there for people to kind of live back in
16:06:46 the old days again and do it in a comfortable
16:06:49 environment where no one is being affected.
16:06:52 We have rooms in here that will -- TVs going, chairs
16:06:57 reclining, comfortable chairs here in front of the TV,
16:07:01 more chairs and tables around here, an area that can
16:07:03 be closed off for private parties or whatever.
16:07:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I hate to disrupt you, sir, but we
16:07:13 are going to have another meeting at 6:00.
16:07:16 I started at 8:00 this morning.
16:07:18 And you have taken me through the history of Tampa,
16:07:21 and I appreciate that.
16:07:23 You have taken me to something I don't use, a barber.
16:07:26 I appreciate that.
16:07:27 You have taken me to -- I know what a hand rolled
16:07:33 cigar is.
16:07:33 I can tell you the different types of leaves, where
16:07:36 they come from, where they don't come from.
16:07:38 I can take you into the factory.
16:07:42 I can take you anywhere you want to go.
16:07:43 But impressed for time.

16:07:46 I have got some more hearings before this.
16:07:48 I have got 4:10 and I have a hearing starting at six
16:07:54 and it's going to be a lengthy one, I imagine about
16:07:56 three hours.
16:07:57 So no reflection flexion on what you are saying.
16:08:01 Let's get to the meat of the conditions that you
16:08:03 worked out or didn't work out.
16:08:05 And I'm not here to any anyway -- in any way disrupt
16:08:10 you.
16:08:12 We are getting short of time here.
16:08:13 And you have done a good job.
16:08:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Let me see if there is any opposition.
16:08:23 Then you can come back in rebuttal.
16:08:25 >>> Of course.
16:08:26 >>> Yang: My client is very excited and enthusiastic
16:08:31 about the business.
16:08:31 We just wanted to give you an idea of what was going
16:08:34 on.
16:08:35 And as Ms. Coyle did explain, we did have two meetings
16:08:40 with Beach Park homeowners association prior to
16:08:42 today's hearing.
16:08:43 We also reached out to the Westshore association to

16:08:47 east of the mall to try to come up with conditions
16:08:51 that everyone would be happy with.
16:08:52 Thank you.
16:08:59 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 south Sherill street.
16:09:02 They did meet with the board twice.
16:09:04 And the board gave them the approval on certain
16:09:10 conditions, and part of the presentation to us he
16:09:15 didn't even get to, and it was on that part that the
16:09:20 board did support them.
16:09:21 However, not on the 1:00 closing.
16:09:25 We were very determined, and they know it.
16:09:27 We spoke to them twice.
16:09:31 Emmy sent them a letter and I think she sent to the
16:09:33 council, to zoning as well, very specific about the
16:09:36 12:00 closing.
16:09:37 And it has to do with the health, safety and welfare
16:09:41 of the Beach Park neighborhood, because we are the
16:09:44 closest neighborhood to where this would be.
16:09:46 And we are concerned about the late closing.
16:09:50 We feel that if what he really wants to do is just
16:09:53 have people sitting around and enjoying their cigars,
16:09:57 that's fine.

16:09:58 But they don't have to drink -- or they should be able
16:10:03 to finish it.
16:10:04 If they order before midnight, we understand that they
16:10:08 should not be able to after that time.
16:10:13 He was concerned that if someone bought a cigar at a
16:10:16 quarter of 12, they wouldn't be able to sit there and
16:10:19 finish their cigar.
16:10:20 I asked Cathy Coyle about that and she said that's not
16:10:23 her understanding.
16:10:24 It's only that the liquor cannot be sold after
16:10:27 midnight.
16:10:28 And that's the part that we ask council that if you
16:10:32 approve this that you set the closing, or the stopping
16:10:38 of alcohol sales at midnight.
16:10:40 However, I also have to say that because of the board
16:10:47 had one concept, and that's not the conditions in
16:10:50 here, I'm a little concerned and would ask you, also,
16:10:55 if we don't postpone this till the board meets again,
16:11:00 and understands exactly what they are asking for in
16:11:02 their conditions, either that or put a conditional on
16:11:05 it for one year.
16:11:07 But whatever you do, please put the closing of the

16:11:10 alcohol sales at midnight every day.
16:11:15 Thank you.
16:11:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
16:11:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: In all fairness to the petitioner,
16:11:23 I don't want to in any way say that I cut him off from
16:11:26 a point.
16:11:26 I think that point had not been addressed and I wanted
16:11:29 the petitioner to speak to that point, because we went
16:11:32 through the trials and tribulation of changing a City
16:11:36 factory, a city that started in 1898 coming from Key
16:11:40 West and building the line and doing other things with
16:11:44 other families in Tampa.
16:11:45 And I understand the history.
16:11:47 I appreciate very much the history lesson that I just
16:11:50 learned.
16:11:50 But I would like to speak to the points of one thing,
16:11:53 the location.
16:11:53 And that's between, I guess, J.C. Penney and Radio
16:12:00 Shack.
16:12:02 The open area outside?
16:12:03 >>> It's an open area.
16:12:05 >> Outside.

16:12:05 That's what I am saying, but to the west of it.
16:12:08 >>> But it's between --
16:12:10 >> I know where it's at.
16:12:12 Let's speak to that petition, because I voted against
16:12:15 one petition and I am going to be very sincere and
16:12:17 upfront, that had an M.O. of staying open till 2:00 or
16:12:22 3:00 in the morning when the M.O. of Westshore plaza
16:12:25 was 12.
16:12:27 That's for Maggiano's, that's for Mitchell, that's for
16:12:32 all the restaurants that are there.
16:12:33 So let's roll the ball.
16:12:38 >>> I what I would like to say to you after talking
16:12:41 with Jay marsh at the mall those restaurants typically
16:12:45 close by 12:00, although often during the year they
16:12:48 have events that they stay open till later to.
16:12:51 My only reason for requesting a 1:00 opening on Friday
16:12:55 and Saturday night is that typically on those two
16:12:57 nights of the week people go out to dinner later, we
16:13:00 have tourists staying at the hotels all around the
16:13:03 area, most of those place does not allow cigar
16:13:07 smoking, many times couples go out to dinner and would
16:13:10 like to have a cigar after dinner.

16:13:12 If they have a late seating, a 10:00 30 dinner
16:13:15 seating, I would like them to be open long enough to
16:13:17 come over and have a cigar before having to go home.
16:13:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I believe I understood Ms. Advise
16:13:27 toy say that what's before us is to allow the sale of
16:13:31 liquor.
16:13:34 She says she wants the sale of liquor to end at
16:13:36 midnight but you can stay open for people to smoke
16:13:38 after that, and how would you all think about that?
16:13:41 >>> If I may take this question.
16:13:44 Actually, if you look at the proposed tradition, we
16:13:48 are agreeing to close for business.
16:13:52 To close for business by midnight Sunday through
16:13:55 Thursday.
16:13:56 And we are requesting that council allow us to stay
16:14:00 open until 1 a.m. Fridays and Saturdays and on new
16:14:04 years eve.
16:14:04 So that's to close for business.
16:14:06 Not necessarily just for the alcohol sales.
16:14:09 It's to close for business.
16:14:11 And Beach Park, in the meetings and the conversations,
16:14:15 the many e-mails and the phone calls we have had,

16:14:18 Beach Park has consistently requested the midnight
16:14:21 close seven days a weak.
16:14:23 We were agreeable to a midnight close Sunday through
16:14:26 Thursday.
16:14:26 We are merely asking for two extra hours a week on
16:14:29 Fridays and Saturdays, for the reasons that he
16:14:34 explained, for example, when you are in a restaurant,
16:14:36 when you are in hotels, you are not allowed to smoke.
16:14:38 And so if you do have people enjoying a late meal,
16:14:41 they might not be able to finish that meal and get out
16:14:44 of the restaurant until 11:00 or 12:00 and then to be
16:14:47 able to allow them then to travel to Fuma and be able
16:14:52 to be there on Fridays and Saturdays only until 1 a.m.
16:14:55 Also, for New Year's Eve festivities, we thought that
16:15:01 a 1 a.m. close hopefully would not be too
16:15:04 unreasonable.
16:15:05 Probably the restaurants at the mall also were going
16:15:09 to be open past midnight on New Year's Eve, for New
16:15:12 Year's Eve festivities.
16:15:14 Beach Park homeowners association did request a number
16:15:16 of conditions.
16:15:19 We really worked very hard to try to address those

16:15:21 conditions to be sensitive to those needs, and that is
16:15:24 why you will see a number of conditions in this
16:15:27 ordinance that we are proposing.
16:15:29 I respectfully request your support on this.
16:15:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions by council members?
16:15:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Before we close I want to take one
16:15:40 more bite of this apple.
16:15:41 About a year ago, I don't think you were involved, but
16:15:43 somebody came to council, a great restaurant concept,
16:15:46 they wanted to be open till two.
16:15:50 We said no.
16:15:53 It's 12 at Westshore plaza and that's the end of the
16:15:56 conversation.
16:15:56 Sole what I say to you is, that's what I am going to
16:15:59 be supportive of.
16:16:00 If you would like to request that you close at 12,
16:16:03 that's great.
16:16:03 If you don't, I won't be able to support this.
16:16:06 I just want to share that with you.
16:16:08 If you want to chat with your client and see what they
16:16:11 think.
16:16:12 >>> Okay.

16:16:14 If I may have a moment.
16:16:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead.
16:16:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I may just make a statement.
16:16:27 I'm not immune or understand that there's maybe one or
16:16:30 two days a year, if there's a Super Bowl in town, for
16:16:33 an hour or two difference there, or a New Year's
16:16:36 party, I understand that.
16:16:38 But I'm not going to blanket -- we are getting so far
16:16:42 on alcohol that sooner or later child care centers are
16:16:45 going to come in and ask for an "R," a restricted
16:16:49 thing.
16:16:49 You know, really, I'm not trying to be funny.
16:16:52 But it is humorous.
16:16:54 And I'm not talking about your petition, please.
16:17:00 It's just that I have heard things here lately that is
16:17:04 almost a must saying, not in your case but the things
16:17:06 we are coming up with.
16:17:07 Waive is carrying center, and I want this, and I have
16:17:11 a dog grooming business and I want this.
16:17:13 And where are we headed?
16:17:14 I don't know.
16:17:18 This is not for you, sir.

16:17:19 This is just I am making a statement to my colleagues.
16:17:27 >>> Yang: Ms. Saul-Sena, I would like to know if you
16:17:42 request a midnight close would that -- can we still
16:17:47 request a 1 a.m. on New Year's Eve?
16:17:58 >>> Ms. Saul-Sena, I don't know if it's in my purview
16:18:09 but I would like to ask what your resistance is just
16:18:11 on general principle to the 1:00 --
16:18:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's out of order.
16:18:17 >>> Okay.
16:18:17 I didn't know.
16:18:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: She's not alone.
16:18:21 Let me just put it that way.
16:18:26 >>> I'm asking if council would still allow us to
16:18:30 proceed with a 1 a.m. close request on New Year's Eve
16:18:33 each year regardless of the day of the week.
16:18:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To include New Year's Eve, Super
16:18:44 Bowl, and one other day, national cigar day.
16:18:50 Three 1:00 closings a year at your discretion.
16:18:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe what would be appropriate
16:19:00 would be for council to set the conditions again based
16:19:02 on the code.
16:19:03 If you wish to make those specific dates.

16:19:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: New Year's and Super Bowl.
16:19:10 >> Wait a minute, what about the hockey team here?
16:19:15 We have a hockey team here.
16:19:19 What does it have to do with Super Bowl?
16:19:21 [ Laughter ]
16:19:26 We want small businesses to come to this city.
16:19:28 And they are not going to come here when we put
16:19:31 restrictions like that, believe me.
16:19:32 They spend a lot of money.
16:19:33 How much money are you going to spend there, sir?
16:19:35 >>> Upwards of $2 million.
16:19:38 >> That's a lot of money.
16:19:39 Believe me.
16:19:44 I don't know how many people on this council have had
16:19:46 employees got to pay workers' compensation, you have
16:19:49 got to pay insurance, I know what it is, believe me.
16:19:52 And we are choking some of these small businesses.
16:19:55 Ms. Saul-Sena, I don't know what contained of business
16:19:57 you have been in, but you pay workers' compensation,
16:20:02 insurance, it's a killer.
16:20:05 So we are hurting people.
16:20:06 And you want people to come to this city.

16:20:08 They ain't going to come, believe me.
16:20:12 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a lot coming in for Gasparilla.
16:20:18 Not only Tampa people.
16:20:19 We have visitors that come through.
16:20:24 >>> The number of venues where cigar smokers can
16:20:27 legally smoke keep shrinking.
16:20:29 So what my client is really trying to propose I think
16:20:31 is going to be a wonderful new concept.
16:20:34 A very unique concept to the Westshore area, to that
16:20:37 Westshore mall area.
16:20:40 Let me see if council is supportive of a 1 a.m. close
16:20:45 on new years eve.
16:20:46 We thank you for considering that.
16:20:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would just like to speak to the
16:20:55 petitioner if I may.
16:20:56 I hope you make it no matter what this council does,
16:20:58 because it's not about the economy.
16:21:04 Cigar smoking is not about 50%.
16:21:06 And it's been sliding down every year.
16:21:09 For investment of your size, you are a better person
16:21:12 than I am.
16:21:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Madam Chair, I want to be certain on

16:21:23 what those conditions are going to be.
16:21:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: They have to request.
16:21:29 >>> You are requesting New Year's Eve?
16:21:34 >> A midnight close, seven days a week.
16:21:39 A 1 a.m. close on New Year's Eve.
16:21:41 And a discretionary additional 1 a.m. close?
16:21:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Legal doesn't like the
16:21:49 discretionary.
16:21:50 It's too loosey goosey.
16:21:54 >>GWEN MILLER: You have to name the date.
16:21:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
16:21:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
16:21:59 (Motion carried).
16:21:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to direct staff to
16:22:03 draft an ordinance approving this petition seven days
16:22:08 a week, midnight closing, with the exception of New
16:22:14 Year's Eve, 1 a.m., Super Bowl, 1 a.m.
16:22:19 That's good.
16:22:21 Gasparilla Saturday 1 a.m.
16:22:23 I will be generous.
16:22:26 It will be those three nights only, 1 a.m
16:22:29 That will be my motion.

16:22:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
16:22:31 >>CHAIRMAN: Mr. Shelby?
16:22:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Before council votes to direct staff
16:22:39 to do that I just want to be clear whether it's the
16:22:42 petitioner's desire to agree to those conditions, just
16:22:45 so we know at least that you would agree to that.
16:22:47 Is that your position?
16:22:50 >>> My position is that I want to open up this
16:22:53 concept.
16:22:54 So I will do that.
16:22:55 Anyway I can do it, I will do that.
16:22:58 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
16:23:00 Just want clarification that the motion included all
16:23:02 the other conditions that were offered that were read
16:23:06 into the record earlier.
16:23:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
16:23:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions of the on the motion?
16:23:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I hope this investment of a large
16:23:16 sum of money is not predicated on you signed the lease
16:23:19 and if you get the alcohol zoning you have got to
16:23:22 build out.
16:23:24 I'm not saying you don't have the $2 million.

16:23:27 I'm saying that's a lot of money.
16:23:30 >>> You are correct, sir.
16:23:31 >> That's 100,000 --
16:23:36 >>> I wanted to stay open longer to try to recoup some
16:23:40 of the money.
16:23:40 That's a lot.
16:23:41 >>CHAIRMAN: All in favor?
16:23:43 Opposed?
16:23:46 (Motion carried)
16:23:47 Item 102 is done.
16:23:49 103.
16:23:55 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
16:24:01 WZ 08-114.
16:24:04 Located at 3433-3435 South Westshore Boulevard.
16:24:09 They are requesting a 2(APS).
16:24:11 Beer and wine package sales.
16:24:16 The area is 1008 square feet.
16:24:19 Alcohol will be incidental to the main focus of the
16:24:22 business which is retail sales of gourmet wine, cheese
16:24:25 and gift baskets.
16:24:26 Gift shop.
16:24:28 There are four wet zoned properties within a thousand

16:24:29 feet.
16:24:30 One residentially zoned pretty within a thousand feet
16:24:32 and no institutional uses within a thousand feet.
16:24:36 The property is located at the corner of northwest
16:24:40 corner of El Prado and Westshore.
16:24:47 This is the front view.
16:24:48 Establishment is actually the unit.
16:25:03 This is the unit.
16:25:04 Parking is out front.
16:25:07 Staff has no objections.
16:25:08 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
16:25:11 department.
16:25:12 Police department has no objections to the weather wet
16:25:14 zoning.
16:25:14 >>> Evening will hard hammer, 2001.
16:25:18 I have been sworn.
16:25:19 I stand for questions.
16:25:20 I do have five letters in support to add to the
16:25:23 record.
16:25:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the audience who
16:25:26 wants to speak in opposition?
16:25:28 >> Move to close.

16:25:29 >> Second.
16:25:29 (Motion carried)
16:25:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance for first
16:25:34 reading, an ordinance making lawful the sale of
16:25:37 beverages containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight
16:25:39 and not more than 14% by weight and wines regardless
16:25:42 of alcoholic content beer and wine 2(APS) in sealed
16:25:45 containers for consumption off premises only at or
16:25:49 from that certain lot, plot or tract of land located
16:25:51 at 3433-3435 south Westshore Boulevard, Tampa, Florida
16:25:56 as more particularly described in section 2 hereof
16:25:59 waiving certain restrictions as to distance based upon
16:26:02 certain findings, providing for repeal of all
16:26:04 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
16:26:07 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
16:26:09 Question on the motion Mr. Dingfelder.
16:26:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Rebecca, will clarify the
16:26:15 limitations?
16:26:16 Under staff report it says, in connection with gourmet
16:26:19 Wayne, cheese, and gift shop retail sales.
16:26:22 In other words, businesses come and go, Pfeiffer, ten
16:26:26 years from now it's going to shut down.

16:26:31 Just a little 7-Eleven there or what?
16:26:34 >> Yes, primary to the -- incidental to the primary
16:26:38 use.
16:26:38 >> It doesn't have to be incidental to wine, cheese,
16:26:42 gift, shop, retail?
16:26:44 >>> No, it does not.
16:26:45 >> Can we make that condition accordingly?
16:26:54 I am uncomfortable with this because it's a little
16:26:55 wine and cheese shop.
16:26:58 >>> 2(APS) and the only condition that's in there is
16:27:01 that it has to be incidental to the -- the sale of
16:27:05 alcoholic beverages has to be incidental to the
16:27:08 primary use and that would be acceptable if the
16:27:12 applicant would comment on that.
16:27:15 >>> Incidental to retail sales, I am going to limit it
16:27:19 to cheese ---you know, gourmet gifts.
16:27:23 It's retail sales, accessory type.
16:27:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess my concern is, and you're a
16:27:29 professional, that this runs with the land forever.
16:27:31 And --
16:27:34 >>> I understand where you are coming from and I'm
16:27:37 just wondering if there is a unique situation -- I

16:27:42 don't think.
16:27:43 There are other, you know, 2(APS)es that are
16:27:47 incidental with the retail sales, similar to, you
16:27:51 know -- I don't think I have a problem if we want to
16:28:00 associate it with this business only.
16:28:01 But if the business name changes, but they are still
16:28:04 selling the same type of products, I don't know how we
16:28:07 do that.
16:28:09 >>REBECCA KERT: Any -- it has to be roughly related to
16:28:14 any adverse effect that come from the sale of
16:28:16 alcoholic beverages at this location.
16:28:18 And you have to have specific uses.
16:28:20 But you can come to these things like gourmet grocery
16:28:24 store, they tend to be things that are defined uses in
16:28:30 our zoning codes, such as public use, amusement park,
16:28:38 those types of things.
16:28:41 I would not recommend that you condition it on selling
16:28:45 upscale goods.
16:28:46 I don't think that's a reasonable, rational condition
16:28:50 that would be legally --
16:28:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: On first reading hopefully if the
16:28:53 neighborhood has a problem they'll let us know by

16:28:56 second reading.
16:28:56 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye.
16:28:58 Opposed, Nay.
16:28:59 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano, Mulhern, and
16:29:02 Scott being absent at vote.
16:29:04 The second reading of the ordinance will be held July
16:29:08 17th at 9:30 a.m.
16:29:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
16:29:14 104.
16:29:14 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
16:29:16 WZ 08-115 located at 4401 north Himes Avenue.
16:29:21 They are requesting a 2(COP-X) in conjunction with
16:29:26 1,141 square feet.
16:29:31 It's actually the culinary art institute.
16:29:35 For some of you on council, we rezoned this a couple
16:29:37 of times within the last couple of years.
16:29:39 It was originally just office.
16:29:46 This is west of St. Joseph's hospital.
16:29:53 A couple of years back they came back for changing
16:29:57 from general office to medical and a couple years
16:30:00 later they added in a school use and what they added
16:30:02 in actually, they have a culinary school there, and

16:30:07 what they are looking to do is open a small restaurant
16:30:09 that they can have their students cook, and then also
16:30:14 serve alcohol along with the meals.
16:30:18 Staff had no objections.
16:30:22 >> Officer Don Miller, Tampa Police Department.
16:30:24 I have been sworn.
16:30:25 Tampa police has in a objection to this wet zone.
16:30:30 >>> Grace Yang, 201 North Franklin Street.
16:30:36 I have been sworn.
16:30:36 And I am the authorized agent for the petitioner.
16:30:39 And in the audience with me today is the dean of
16:30:44 student affairs for the culinary school and the arts
16:30:46 institute.
16:30:47 And this is as described a culinary school where
16:30:52 students can learn how to Diehl do food and beverage
16:30:55 management, learn how to run a restaurant.
16:30:58 We are trying to give them some real world experience
16:30:59 about how to operate a dining room.
16:31:02 We respectfully request your approval for beer and
16:31:05 wine sales.
16:31:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the audience that
16:31:10 wants to speak on 104?

16:31:11 >> Move to close.
16:31:12 >> Second.
16:31:13 (Motion carried).
16:31:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move an ordinance
16:31:21 making lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol
16:31:22 of more than 1% by weight and not more than 14% by
16:31:25 weight and wines regardless of alcoholic content beer
16:31:28 and wine 2(COP-X) for consumption on the premises only
16:31:31 at or from that certain lot, plot or tract of land
16:31:33 located at 4401 north Himes Avenue, Tampa, Florida, as
16:31:37 more particularly described in section 2 hereof,
16:31:39 wavering certain restrictions as to distance based
16:31:42 upon certain findings, providing for repeal of all
16:31:44 ordinances in conflicted, providing an effective date.
16:31:48 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
16:31:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
16:31:51 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor say Aye.
16:31:52 Opposed, Nay.
16:31:54 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott, Mulhern, and
16:31:57 Caetano being absent at vote.
16:31:59 Second reading of the ordinance will be held July
16:32:02 17th at 9:30 a.m.

16:32:04 >>GWEN MILLER: 105.
16:32:07 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
16:32:08 Case WZ 08-119 located at 1515 East 7th Avenue.
16:32:14 They are requesting a 2(COP) in conjunction with an
16:32:16 art gallery.
16:32:18 The request, the area request to wet zone properties
16:32:22 for 3,267 square feet, approximately 465 square feet
16:32:26 on the outside area located in the back of the
16:32:29 building.
16:32:29 There will be seating area of 50 seats located inside.
16:32:34 Sale will be incidental to an art gallery.
16:32:39 It is between 15th and 16th, the south side of
16:32:41 7th Avenue.
16:32:42 This is the storefront.
16:32:44 On the first page and second page of the staff report,
16:32:49 you can see all the wet zoned establishments within
16:32:52 1,000 feet.
16:32:53 Third page shows there are two residential properties
16:32:56 within 1,000 and four institutional uses within 1,000
16:33:00 feet.
16:33:00 There are no objections to the request.
16:33:10 >>> Good evening, council.

16:33:18 Save the best for last.
16:33:20 Sarah Romeo, 1515 East 7th Avenue, here today with my
16:33:25 husband Walter to request a rezoning of the art
16:33:29 gallery.
16:33:30 We have reopened already.
16:33:31 As many of you know and as Mr. Caetano pointed out
16:33:34 today on several occasion it is cost of doing business
16:33:36 is incredible.
16:33:37 Just the cost of opening one gallery show currently is
16:33:41 about $8,000.
16:33:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sort of like the last question
16:33:46 except I am going to ask a little -- it's sale of
16:33:50 alcohol and beer.
16:33:52 Let me preface this.
16:33:54 There's nobody that loves Ybor any more than you or
16:33:56 Walter and we appreciate that.
16:33:58 This is sale of alcohol of beer and sale, the primary
16:34:01 function as an art gallery.
16:34:03 Is that the way the ordinance is drafted?
16:34:09 >>REBECCA KERT: There's no additional conditions.
16:34:11 >> Do you have any objection to that?
16:34:13 You have been the one up and down saying you don't

16:34:15 want beer and wine up and down 7th Avenue.
16:34:20 Associated with an art gallery sounds lovely and I
16:34:23 can't imagine why council would have a problem with
16:34:24 it.
16:34:25 But in a couple years if you wanted to sell it, and
16:34:33 you know just had regular beer and wine, is that what
16:34:37 we would want?
16:34:38 >>> What you are asking is if Walter and I croak
16:34:41 and -- [ Laughter ]
16:34:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You know where I'm head.
16:34:51 >>> If we would agree to condition it with our
16:34:55 ownership of the building?
16:34:56 Is that what you are saying?
16:34:57 >>> No, condition it that it's incidental with the
16:35:00 primary function of the business as an art gallery.
16:35:03 >>> Is that typical?
16:35:07 I mean, is that --
16:35:09 >> Well, 7th Avenue is not typical, period.
16:35:12 I'm a little concerned.
16:35:13 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
16:35:15 If she's willing to accept a condition, I would state
16:35:18 for the record per Mrs. Kert, really the use comes out

16:35:22 of chapter 27 as defined.
16:35:24 I would clarify that it would be specialty retail, and
16:35:27 in parenthesis art gallery, so that way it covers a
16:35:30 little bit broader base, but it's a focused retail
16:35:34 market.
16:35:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Sounds good.
16:35:39 >>> Well, one of the things that we have been talking
16:35:43 about with the YCDC is Mr. Pardo had told us that
16:35:46 there is currently a change in the ordinance of wet
16:35:49 zoning, that if it closes it goes out of business, the
16:35:54 wet zoning goes away.
16:35:56 Is that not correct?
16:35:58 That's something I have been pushing for years, by the
16:36:00 way.
16:36:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Associated with drying out and-oh
16:36:08 you know, we have changed time tables.
16:36:13 >>> I think what she said to do it associated with
16:36:15 retail and special use, specialty retail.
16:36:20 Yeah, I think we could accept that.
16:36:24 I got the word from the boss.
16:36:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
16:36:28 >> Second.

16:36:29 (Motion carried).
16:36:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe you have to amend the
16:36:35 ordinance.
16:36:36 The motion would be to direct legal to come back with
16:36:38 an ordinance.
16:36:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You can do it by 6:00.
16:36:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You can do it by second reading.
16:36:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The title will change.
16:36:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can't we do it by 6:00 tonight?
16:36:54 >> I can't be here at 6:00.
16:36:55 >> You don't have to be here.
16:36:57 >> Then do it by 8:00 tonight.
16:37:03 >>MARY MULHERN: To direct legal to amend the ordinance
16:37:04 to reflect specialty retail, art gallery.
16:37:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
16:37:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm just trying to protect the Ybor
16:37:15 that you love.
16:37:16 >> Thank you.
16:37:18 (Motion carried).
16:37:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other business?
16:37:22 Council members?
16:37:23 >>MARY MULHERN: I had additional business.

16:37:30 If you haven't already, if everyone could send me the
16:37:33 name of the person that will be your budget adviser.
16:37:38 Don't send to the me.
16:37:39 Send to the Shirley.
16:37:40 And contact information.
16:37:48 I will set up the meeting with staff.
16:37:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have one.
16:37:55 I want to give a heads-up to transportation staff
16:37:57 tonight.
16:37:58 Transportation staff tonight.
16:38:00 I am going to be asking a question about the New Tampa
16:38:03 bridge.
16:38:05 I was approached not too long ago that somebody said,
16:38:08 now, if you are never going to build if T New Tampa
16:38:11 bridge then how does that effect all of the approvals
16:38:14 of the thousands of homes out there that still haven't
16:38:17 been built that were contingent upon building the New
16:38:20 Tampa bridge as related to concurrency?
16:38:24 I thought that was really an interesting question.
16:38:29 So I don't know a lot about it.
16:38:31 But I thought it was an interesting question and it is
16:38:33 a comp plan related question since we are dealing with

16:38:35 comp plan tonight.
16:38:37 So I just wanted to talk that up and give them a heads
16:38:40 up so they can think about it for the next couple of
16:38:42 hours.
16:38:47 >>MARY MULHERN: That's where developments were
16:38:49 approved?
16:38:50 That was the --
16:38:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Especially the bridge.
16:38:56 Which is part of that.
16:38:58 That's my understanding.
16:38:59 You know, they can talk to them if I am wrong.
16:39:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to receive and file all
16:39:05 documents.
16:39:06 >> Second.
16:39:06 (Motion carried).
16:39:07 >>GWEN MILLER: We stand adjourned until 6:00 p.m
16:40:04 (City Council meeting adjourned)


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