Tampa City Council
Thursday, July 17, 2008
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09:06:21 [Sounding gavel]
09:06:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
09:06:24 We will stand for the pledge of allegiance.
09:06:32 Mr. Dingfelder.
09:06:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you for the invocation this
09:06:39 Vice-president Hubert Humphrey once said the moral
09:06:41 test of the government, it's how the government treats
09:06:43 those in the dawn of life, our children, those in the
09:06:45 twilight of life, our elderly, and those in the
09:06:48 shadows of life, the sick, the needy and disabled.
09:06:53 With those wise words let us pray.
09:06:56 Dear Lord, be present with us today.
09:06:57 Join us today as we gather in a wider search for truth
09:07:00 and purpose.
09:07:02 In this quest may we greet one another with open
09:07:05 hearts and minds.
09:07:06 May we inspire each other to consider new questions
09:07:09 and seek deeper meaning.
09:07:11 And may we call upon wisdom and compassion on behalf
09:07:15 of everyone in our community but all who enter our
09:07:18 chambers be a welcome sight, find kind words and
09:07:22 comfort in our community.
09:07:23 And when all is said and done here today, be in
09:07:27 service to love and fellowship in your name.
09:07:32 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:07:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, councilman Dingfelder for
09:07:52 those wise words and invocation this morning.
09:07:55 We will now have roll call.
09:07:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:07:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:07:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:08:02 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:08:04 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:08:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:08:08 We will now have the presentation of the firefighter
09:08:10 of the quarter.
09:08:11 I will turn it over to Councilwoman Gwen Miller.
09:08:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Good morning, council members.
09:08:27 It's my pleasure this morning first to honor captain
09:08:31 Frank wells.
09:08:31 Would you please come forward, family, co-workers and
09:08:41 Chief Dennis Jones will do than the presentation.
09:08:46 Let us know why captain wells is honored.
09:08:49 >> Good morning, members of council.
09:08:51 Thank you for allowing me to be before you.
09:08:52 We are here this morning to honor captain frank wells,
09:08:56 a 21 veteran with Tampa Fire Rescue and currently
09:09:00 assigned to our downtown station 1.
09:09:02 And with all of the different units that are assigned
09:09:04 there and personnel that are also assigned there,
09:09:07 that's a challenge in and of itself.
09:09:09 But captain wells carries out those duties in an
09:09:12 exemplary fashion.
09:09:14 He is always training young firefighters and
09:09:16 challenging the more experienced firefighters to reach
09:09:18 the ultimate potential.
09:09:20 He's a member of Florida task force 3, which is the
09:09:23 Tampa Bay regional urban search and rescue team, and
09:09:27 because of that assignment, he's been in various
09:09:31 locations along the Gulf coast in several states to
09:09:33 assist areas that have been ravaged by hurricanes.
09:09:37 Captain wells also shares his knowledge and experience
09:09:40 by training at our academy.
09:09:42 He teaches basically EMS classes, foam operations and
09:09:46 various other vehicle operator and heavy rescue
09:09:50 Captain wells also helps in the community by teaching
09:09:53 in our community response team training process with
09:09:59 greater Tampa search.
09:10:00 Captain wells was in charge of coordinating all the
09:10:02 efforts to suppress a fire, provide medical care to
09:10:06 the injured citizens, and conduct search and rescue
09:10:09 operations, and as well as all of those functions they
09:10:13 also had to save a homeowner's dog, parakeets and
09:10:18 multiple cats, and he carried all of that out in
09:10:21 excellent fashion.
09:10:22 There was not a single glitch in the operation.
09:10:25 Everything ran smoothly.
09:10:29 Not a feather out of place N.his off days captain
09:10:32 wells always finds time to be available for his
09:10:34 co-workers, fellow firefighters.
09:10:36 He's one of those people that you know you can always
09:10:38 count on, call on in time of need, and for this and so
09:10:42 many other reasons, we are recognizing captain Frank
09:10:45 wells as the firefighter of the quarter for Tampa Fire
09:10:52 [ Applause ]
09:10:55 And we have a plaque on behalf of Tampa Fire Rescue
09:10:59 awards review board presented to captain Francis D.
09:11:03 wells III.
09:11:05 His dad was also captain of Tampa Fire Rescue.
09:11:11 Third quarter, 17th of July, 2008.
09:11:16 [ Applause ]
09:11:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Also, the Tampa City Council would like
09:11:21 to give you a commendation for everything you have
09:11:23 done so great.
09:11:24 I won't read it.
09:11:25 I would like to present it to you.
09:11:39 And they would like to give you some gifts.
09:11:41 >> Danny Lewis representing, name change, Bill Currie
09:11:48 Ford Lincoln-Mercury, as of this week.
09:11:50 And we appreciate what you do.
09:12:01 Thank you.
09:12:09 >> Steve Stickley representing Stepp's towing service.
09:12:13 On behalf of Jim and Judy Stepp and Stepps towing
09:12:16 service we would like to present this statue to you
09:12:21 for a job well done.
09:12:22 We want to thank you for everything you do out there
09:12:25 for us.
09:12:27 And also gift certificate to Lee Roy Selmon's.
09:12:39 >> Representing Tampa Lowry Park Zoo.
09:12:42 We want to invite you and your family to come enjoy a
09:12:44 day at the zoo on us.
09:12:46 And we thank you for everything you do for us in the
09:12:48 >> Michelle Patty from Michelle Patty services.
09:13:03 We would like to extend this card to Macy's for you
09:13:06 and your family and to go out to Busch Gardens.
09:13:14 And thank you.
09:13:25 >>GWEN MILLER: It's your time to say something.
09:13:27 >> I feel like my birthday is today. Thanks to all
09:13:30 the individuals here today and all the councilmen and
09:13:33 I would like to introduce my wife Lorraine a, our two
09:13:36 beautiful children Savannah and Sierra.
09:13:40 Courage, honor, commitment, it's all those words that
09:13:43 as a young firefighter I listened to, and as a second
09:13:47 generation firefighter, like Chief Jones said, my
09:13:51 farther started here in 1966 so I'm glad to say we
09:13:54 have had a number of the wells family since 1966.
09:14:02 Chief Jones standing behind me as well.
09:14:03 Those things have been instilled upon us since the
09:14:06 first days of the training academy.
09:14:09 I try to instill those things to the younger
09:14:11 firefighters today.
09:14:12 And as long as we have those individuals for the City
09:14:17 of Tampa, the City of Tampa will be a great place to
09:14:20 work, play and enjoy.
09:14:21 Thanks so much.
09:14:23 [ Applause ]
09:14:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Next month, August 28th, we are
09:14:35 going to present commendation to the police officer.
09:14:44 August 28th.
09:14:46 Two officers.
09:14:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:14:52 The chair will recognize the honorable Charlie Miranda
09:15:00 who will make a presentation total city attorney at
09:15:02 this time.
09:15:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I come this morning to make a
09:15:22 commendation, not as joyful as the ones that we have
09:15:26 had here in this chambers.
09:15:28 This individual is departing on his own terms, and he
09:15:34 has done an outstanding job in the legal department to
09:15:37 guide this city for the last, I believe, about six
09:15:40 years or so, and making sure that the troubled waters
09:15:46 were always calm, to not interject any prejudice one
09:15:51 way or the other between the administration and the
09:15:54 legislative part of this government.
09:15:56 The reason I think the chairman chose me, Mr. Smith,
09:16:01 come here, if I may ask you to step closer, because
09:16:04 next to me you have long hair.
09:16:08 So I had to interject a little humor there.
09:16:11 I can tell you one thing about Mr. Smith.
09:16:13 Not only is he a brilliant lawyer, but don't play golf
09:16:17 with him.
09:16:19 He's a very good golfer.
09:16:21 So those that are hearing me, if you are going to go
09:16:24 and do some type of a golf outing, make sure that you
09:16:29 keep your money in your pocket, because he can shoot
09:16:34 high 70, low 80s.
09:16:37 That's for nine holes, though.
09:16:38 [ Laughter ]
09:16:40 I said nine holes.
09:16:41 See what I'm saying?
09:16:43 So I'm going to read this, Mr. Smith.
09:16:44 Again it's with a heavy heart that I do this because I
09:16:47 really enjoyed your tenure with the city and we are
09:16:50 very appreciative of everything you have done for all
09:16:52 the citizens of this community, and you did it with a
09:16:54 lot of class.
09:16:57 In recognition of your dedication and service, as city
09:17:00 attorney in the City of Tampa, the City Council
09:17:02 extends its appreciation for your legal guidance and
09:17:06 savvy advice.
09:17:07 That guidance and assistance afforded council members
09:17:10 the opportunity to make sound and informed decisions.
09:17:14 We the City Council appreciate the brief interludes
09:17:18 you afforded us when you utilized your skills to be
09:17:21 the best that you really are.
09:17:24 It's a pleasure to give you this commendation on
09:17:27 behalf of all the council members, and really on
09:17:30 behalf of all the citizens of the City of Tampa.
09:17:32 We are very appreciative for what you and your staff
09:17:34 have done throughout these years in your tenure as
09:17:38 city attorney.
09:17:40 [ Applause ]
09:17:41 >>DAVID SMITH: Thank you very much.
09:17:43 Thank you very much for this commendation, and I'm
09:17:50 honored to have had the opportunity to have served the
09:17:52 City of Tampa, its residents, its mayor and this
09:17:55 excellent council.
09:17:59 What happened to Stepp's towing and Bern's?
09:18:02 [ Laughter ]
09:18:05 Okay, I got it.
09:18:10 It really has been an enjoyment to me.
09:18:14 It's been a tremendous challenge and there are so many
09:18:16 people I have enjoyed getting to know and working
09:18:18 I appreciate the mayor having the confidence to
09:18:20 nominate me.
09:18:21 I appreciate this council and your predecessor having
09:18:25 the grace to confirm that appointment.
09:18:27 And I have had the opportunity to work with truly
09:18:29 dedicated public servants, yourselves, the mayor, and
09:18:33 all the staff members I have come to know in this
09:18:35 short about four and a half years.
09:18:38 It is more like six.
09:18:39 But in that short period of time, you have an
09:18:42 excellent executive staff, you have very great people
09:18:44 that work here at the city.
09:18:46 I have been very impressed with the quality of the
09:18:48 work I've seen, the effort that is manifest by the
09:18:51 people here, and the results that we all try to get
09:18:54 collectively for the city.
09:18:55 Those of us in the city who have not previously had
09:18:58 the opportunity to see this up close firsthand, I in
09:19:04 particular am very impressed and the citizens of Tampa
09:19:10 should feel very confident in the quality of work they
09:19:13 are getting from the people here.
09:19:15 One thing I would like to indicate is that at times
09:19:17 like these I appreciate being honored.
09:19:19 It is an honor.
09:19:19 But in reality, to the extent we have accomplished
09:19:22 good things, it's been a product of my staff.
09:19:26 We have an excellent staff.
09:19:28 There are literally only five attorneys here that were
09:19:30 here when I joined the city.
09:19:33 Kirby Rainsberger, affectionately known as "the
09:19:38 phantom," who works with the police department.
09:19:40 We shouldn't see him often because.
09:19:42 We have Jerry Gewirtz, also known as "the secret
09:19:46 weapon" in the city, an excellent attorney, does
09:19:47 amazing work, and obtains results even short of trial
09:19:50 that most lawyers would love to get.
09:19:57 We have Jorge Martin, who in real estate.
09:20:02 We have Justin Vaske who was new at the time.
09:20:04 Justin is an excellent young lawyer, and just the
09:20:07 other day when I talked to one of the lightning people
09:20:10 about a transaction they praised him for going out of
09:20:13 his way to go to the mayor's house to get something
09:20:15 signed and being at the forum the very next morning,
09:20:19 early, in the time frame they had.
09:20:22 Those are the kinds of efforts that are not common.
09:20:26 David Shobe was the other lawyer, our municipal
09:20:31 prosecutor who you always don't see very often but
09:20:33 David was over at the state attorney's office and
09:20:36 handles all of our criminal prosecution and does a
09:20:38 great job.
09:20:38 I have had the opportunity to hire 15 attorneys.
09:20:40 I don't know ten of them were women, which is an
09:20:48 interesting combination and everybody that I have
09:20:51 hired has done a great job.
09:20:52 You have met most of them.
09:20:54 You obviously know Julia Cole.
09:20:55 You worked with her.
09:20:57 Rebecca Kert and Donna Wysong.
09:20:59 They are all appearing before you on a regular basis.
09:21:03 Cathy Ginster is an excellent tireless worker.
09:21:08 Ernie Mueller you are beginning to see more often.
09:21:11 He does code enforce: Also one of our boards.
09:21:15 Gary gasman who you probably don't see very orphan I
09:21:18 hired from Orlando.
09:21:19 He does labor and employment but also our litigation
09:21:23 and really helping us out significantly.
09:21:26 Jan McLean who I worked with a lot recently on the
09:21:28 water issue is has lots of information and you will be
09:21:37 talking with her more in the future because we have a
09:21:39 lot of water issues to deal with as you know.
09:21:41 I don't want to leave anyone else.
09:21:44 Julie Kabougeris, I would see -- I knew her when she
09:21:52 was just a bushy haired kid.
09:21:55 Now she's a bushy haired woman.
09:21:57 [ Laughter ]
09:21:59 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO, okay.
09:22:04 Lori Woodham also works with the police and does the
09:22:09 collection of forfeiture.
09:22:11 Excellent lawyer.
09:22:12 Does great work.
09:22:13 I was kidding about Kirby earlier, but he with us
09:22:19 great work.
09:22:19 He's an excellent lawyer and we are fortunate to have
09:22:22 Marcie Hamilton, she has come along incredibly.
09:22:30 I don't think she was quit ready for all that happened
09:22:33 here, but she got over the shock and has really
09:22:36 emerged, and I think we have a tremendous young lawyer
09:22:39 there as well.
09:22:40 You know Rebecca and Julia and Donna so I won't go
09:22:44 into much detail about them.
09:22:45 But they are great lawyers.
09:22:47 I'm very happy I hired them.
09:22:51 Robin McKinney is another young lawyer you don't
09:22:54 She does a lot of our litigation, excellent young
09:22:56 trial lawyer, hired her from the old firm gray
09:23:02 We got a deal.
09:23:04 We are really glad to have her.
09:23:05 She's working with Gary on some litigation, has really
09:23:08 done a great job.
09:23:09 And you know Sal.
09:23:10 Sal is great.
09:23:11 He's a pleasure to work with.
09:23:13 Whenever you have an issue, he's a great sounding
09:23:16 You get to work with him directly at CRA but you see
09:23:19 him down here at council a lot.
09:23:22 Toyin Aina Hargrett.
09:23:26 She is incredible and I am really proud of the way she
09:23:28 has developed.
09:23:29 I knew she was bright when I interviewed her.
09:23:31 I was worried about her writing skills, but she gave
09:23:34 me something that wasn't her best effort, but she had
09:23:37 completely defused me of that idea.
09:23:41 She does some of her appellant work as well.
09:23:47 I will try to leave these people intact, by the way,
09:23:50 won't steal them initially.
09:23:52 Ursula Richardson, who you don't get to see, does
09:23:55 almost all of our defense work when we have police
09:23:57 officers who have problems, accidents, other things of
09:24:00 that nature.
09:24:00 Really good lawyer.
09:24:01 She came highly recommended by one of the judges in
09:24:04 the community.
09:24:05 And she does excellent work for you.
09:24:08 I think she scares the other attorneys.
09:24:11 I'm talking about on the other side.
09:24:13 So we have a great staff.
09:24:14 We have part time assistant city attorneys as well.
09:24:17 I'll just tell you grace Andrews and Steve Barbas do
09:24:22 our worker's comp.
09:24:26 Some of our experienced trial workers.
09:24:29 And our real estate.
09:24:32 So the point is, I did not want to not mention these
09:24:36 They are the people behind the scenes that do the
09:24:38 work, that a, and they are loyal, they are intelligent
09:24:43 and they are hard working.
09:24:46 Marty is technically one of my lawyers but he came
09:24:49 after the time, he was an assistant city attorney and
09:24:52 I have enjoyed working with Marty as well.
09:24:54 We worked together as a team, and I think as a
09:24:57 consequence accomplished good things.
09:25:00 One last thing I will say is that I highly recommended
09:25:03 Chip Fletcher to the mayor.
09:25:04 You have met him.
09:25:05 You know him.
09:25:06 You worked with him on council.
09:25:07 I think he will do a great job.
09:25:09 So you are in good hands.
09:25:10 I feel comfortable leaving you in good hands.
09:25:13 I'm sorry to go, because I really have enjoyed this
09:25:16 job, I have enjoyed working with you.
09:25:19 At the same time it's an opportunity I needed to take,
09:25:22 so I have.
09:25:23 But I will be across the street.
09:25:24 I'm available to help out at any time.
09:25:27 It's difficult when you have so many new lawyers.
09:25:29 You lose a lot of institutional knowledge.
09:25:33 I'm here four and a half year, I'm like the sixth most
09:25:36 senior lawyer out of 18.
09:25:37 So we need to make sure we tap into that institutional
09:25:40 So if there's anything I can do, you will have my
09:25:43 phone number.
09:25:43 I'll make sure you get my number and I'll be glad to
09:25:47 help out.
09:25:48 Thank you for that opportunity.
09:25:50 [ Applause ]
09:25:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Before you leave, I want to extend to
09:25:58 each council member the opportunity to make some
09:26:02 I'll start to my right.
09:26:03 >>MARY MULHERN: We are going to miss you, David.
09:26:12 It's been great working with you, and for me it was
09:26:15 really a good introduction, newly up here, you were
09:26:21 really helpful to me, and wish you the best of luck.
09:26:24 >>DAVID SMITH: Thank you very much.
09:26:28 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: It's been a pleasure working with
09:26:30 I enjoyed some of your challenges that you give our
09:26:34 City Councilors occasionally but now your stuff and
09:26:37 that's important.
09:26:38 And I wish you good luck.
09:26:41 >>DAVID SMITH: Thank you.
09:26:41 >>GWEN MILLER: I told you, last Thursday we had a
09:26:46 motion on the floor, before we finished.
09:26:48 I am not going to say what the motion is.
09:26:50 But I really enjoy working with you.
09:26:53 It has been a pleasure.
09:26:54 You taught me a lot.
09:26:55 And I'm glad when I call you, you never turned me
09:26:57 down, you answer a question that I have, and I'm going
09:27:00 to miss that.
09:27:01 But I really know where you are so if I want to get
09:27:04 you, I can dial your number and get the answer from
09:27:08 Thanks for working with me.
09:27:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: David and I go back, I don't know,
09:27:16 we are about at the 20 year mark.
09:27:17 >> '84?
09:27:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We litigated against each other way
09:27:25 back then.
09:27:26 That was our first introduction to each other.
09:27:28 But it's always the same thing.
09:27:31 Even when we go head to head, in the toughest battles,
09:27:36 the next day we shake hands and we continue to be good
09:27:40 David, you are a straight shooter.
09:27:45 You are a dedicated public servant.
09:27:47 You and everybody behind you are here at personal
09:27:52 sacrifice, financial sacrifice because we all know you
09:27:54 could be making much more.
09:27:56 You did make much more before and will be making much
09:27:58 more again but in the last four or offensive years,
09:28:02 you have sacrificed for the city and for your
09:28:06 And for us.
09:28:07 And we appreciate it greatly.
09:28:11 Your administrative staff, in addition to all your
09:28:15 lawyers, have just done a great job.
09:28:18 Whenever I call up there, and I can't find a lawyer,
09:28:20 you know, I just get great response and great
09:28:28 And the last thing I wanted to say, and your wife can
09:28:32 translate this when you go home, but you're a real
09:28:36 mensch and we appreciate it.
09:28:37 >> Thank you for that, and I was remiss in not
09:28:39 mentioning the staff.
09:28:40 Staff is excellent.
09:28:41 We have really benefited from the commitment of the
09:28:45 We don't have the ratio that the private sector has.
09:28:50 We have one secretary working with three lawyers.
09:28:53 But they do the work and do a great job and I of
09:28:57 course benefited for three years that Mary Bryan, a
09:29:02 friend of mine borrowed, and I don't have her anymore,
09:29:04 but she's been a tremendous asset.
09:29:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: As you well know I'm that friend
09:29:11 who robbed the legal department.
09:29:12 I was no fool.
09:29:13 I had a committee.
09:29:20 Personally, I want to thank you and your staff for
09:29:22 being in a very delicate arena, an arena where you
09:29:26 live inside the bowl, and people from both sides of
09:29:30 that bowl, either administrative or legislative, are
09:29:34 looking to you for guidance.
09:29:36 And you, with your courage, your knowledge, and your
09:29:39 professionalism, I've always admired the
09:29:45 You value your handshake as if it was a binding
09:29:49 And that's all I can ask a person to do, just to be
09:29:53 And you have certainly proven that to be correct.
09:29:55 Thank you very much for all your years of service, you
09:29:57 and your staff.
09:29:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Smith, thank you.
09:30:02 I have had the opportunity to work with you the past
09:30:04 year and a half.
09:30:07 Our first meeting, should I say, I was on county
09:30:12 commission dealing with Central Park.
09:30:14 And I will tell you, I have learned over the years, we
09:30:17 should all learn this, first -- I think you have -- we
09:30:30 were going at each other at that time.
09:30:31 I will tell you, though, since coming over here and
09:30:34 working here, we have had a very good working
09:30:37 relationship, and you have really shown your expertise
09:30:41 and knowledge and skill, and work hard to make sure
09:30:46 that this city government is protected.
09:30:49 And to make this council aware.
09:30:53 And I appreciate that.
09:30:54 I appreciate your honesty.
09:30:56 I have learned that when you are down in the trenches
09:31:04 when things are hot, the real person comes out, at the
09:31:07 end of the day when you are going through those
09:31:09 challenges and those struggles, the real person, the
09:31:12 real woman, the real man comes out.
09:31:13 That's when you really find what a person is, from
09:31:16 their heart.
09:31:16 I will tell you that genuinely, you are a genuine
09:31:19 person who is fair and wants to do what's right.
09:31:23 The WMBE ordinance is a reality today because you and
09:31:26 your staff worked hard on that and you worked with
09:31:30 council to make sure it was done right and I won't
09:31:32 forget that.
09:31:33 Also, you have good taste and good quality because you
09:31:37 hired some of the county's attorneys, as well as some
09:31:39 of the other new attorneys that you brought on with
09:31:42 I knew Julia and Rebecca before they came over here.
09:31:46 So that tells you about good taste, good quality, and
09:31:49 good ability, and recognize good talent when you see
09:31:53 Thank you so very much for what you have done for the
09:31:54 city government, and also know that we are only seven
09:31:59 numbers away if you need us.
09:32:01 >>DAVID SMITH: Thank you very much.
09:32:02 I will say one last thing.
09:32:03 I will not miss the anxiety in the morning when you
09:32:05 read the newspaper and you wonder how your quote is
09:32:09 going to come out, but I will miss working with you.
09:32:12 You are very good people.
09:32:13 I appreciate that comment.
09:32:14 I think that is the essence of what we are about, is
09:32:17 who are we as people.
09:32:18 And I think you do find that out.
09:32:20 Character does emerge under tough circumstances.
09:32:22 And I think it's been my pleasure to get to know you
09:32:25 and to understand the character and the integrity that
09:32:27 exists in this council and with my staff and I am very
09:32:31 pleased at the quality of the people I have had a
09:32:35 chance to work with, and I will miss you.
09:32:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Shelby, do you want to make any
09:32:40 comments before we move with the agenda?
09:32:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I just wish to express to council my
09:32:45 deep appreciation for Mr. Smith.
09:32:48 It was a very difficult time when I came on, and to
09:32:52 develop a working relationship that would serve this
09:32:54 council and serve the city was sometimes challenging,
09:33:00 but always rewarding, and it has been a distinct
09:33:03 pleasure and a privilege to help Mr. Smith help you
09:33:07 serve this city.
09:33:10 And I truly appreciate the courtesy and the support
09:33:13 you have given me in this position so that I'm able to
09:33:16 better serve you.
09:33:17 So I thank you very much, Mr. Smith, and I will miss
09:33:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much to you and to your
09:33:23 Thank you very much.
09:33:24 [ Applause ]
09:33:25 With that we will move to the agenda.
09:33:36 Mr. Shelby.
09:33:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have before you an addendum.
09:33:42 There is one item that is a walk-on.
09:33:46 Members of council, WZ 08-113 was a wet zoning that
09:33:51 was last heard at the last evening meeting for 218
09:33:54 Westshore Ms.
09:33:56 It was anticipated to be on this week's agenda, so it
09:34:00 could be having its second reading and adoption of
09:34:03 public hearing on the 31st of July.
09:34:07 Unfortunately, it did not make it on this agenda, and
09:34:09 was scheduled instead which two weeks hence.
09:34:16 The petitioner has made the request to have the
09:34:18 ordinance read for first reading today.
09:34:20 The public hearing is closed.
09:34:21 I have personally spoken with neighborhood association
09:34:24 representative Margaret Vizzi and Purcell Reynolds.
09:34:29 They have in a objection to it being read today and
09:34:31 they understand second reading and adoption public
09:34:34 hearing would be on the 31st.
09:34:36 So with that if council would contemplate adding that
09:34:39 to first reading considers, the clerk does have it
09:34:42 present today.
09:34:44 >> So moved.
09:34:46 >> It's a walk-on.
09:34:48 >> WZ 08-113, a 4(COP-X) with conditions.
09:34:54 The petitioner's representative is present if council
09:34:58 has any other questions.
09:34:59 But it is a closed public hearing, the ordinance is
09:35:05 ready for first reading.
09:35:06 >> Second.
09:35:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved by councilman Miranda, seconded
09:35:12 by Mary Mulhern.
09:35:14 So moved and ordered.
09:35:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
09:35:16 There's an item that Chairman Scott will be bringing
09:35:18 up, a request by Cynthia Miller at the end of the
09:35:21 meeting to set a workshop.
09:35:22 With regard to the continuance, item number 5, removal
09:35:26 of items, you have a request by senior city attorney
09:35:29 Julia Cole to remove that item from the agenda for
09:35:33 further development.
09:35:33 With regards to item number 69 through 76, those are
09:35:45 set for second reading.
09:35:46 However they cannot be heard.
09:35:48 Publication was not perfected due to not meeting the
09:35:50 publication deadline as required by Florida statute.
09:35:52 So as an announcement, council, those items 69 through
09:35:58 76 will be scheduled and are being advertised for
09:36:00 second reading and adoption on August 31st, 2008,
09:36:04 at 9:30 a.m
09:36:09 With regard to item 85 the appeal hearing of Charles
09:36:12 Moore III, it is requested by petitioner to be removed
09:36:16 from the agenda.
09:36:17 You have a memo from Mr. Irvin Lee regarding item
09:36:23 number 82.
09:36:24 Finally, council, the items removed from committee
09:36:31 report and consent agenda for discussion, you have
09:36:33 received on the addendum five items to be removed.
09:36:36 However I have been informed that council member
09:36:39 Dingfelder resolved 28 and 49, the fourth and fifth on
09:36:43 the list.
09:36:44 So his request is to remove items 14, 15 and 16 from
09:36:47 the agenda.
09:36:48 Those are all the changes that I'm aware of,
09:36:51 Mr. Chairman.
09:36:51 And if there's any further changes, if not, I ask you
09:36:56 approve the agenda.
09:36:57 >>GWEN MILLER: So 28 is back on the regular consent
09:36:59 agenda and 49, right?
09:37:04 Any other changes, council?
09:37:07 Motion to approve?
09:37:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
09:37:11 >> Second.
09:37:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:37:14 So moved and ordered.
09:37:15 Thank you very kindly.
09:37:16 This is also the memorandum from Councilwoman Linda
09:37:21 Please be advised that I will be late at this
09:37:23 morning's council meeting.
09:37:25 So that's from Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:37:28 I wanted to read that into the record and give this to
09:37:30 the clerk.
09:37:31 At this time we will have public comment.
09:37:37 Council has allocated 30 minutes for those who want to
09:37:40 address council.
09:37:41 So at this time we will give opportunity to come,
09:37:45 state your name and address for the record.
09:37:47 You have three minutes to make any comment.
09:37:55 Preference is given to those items on the agenda
09:37:58 >> Pete: First of all I want to say David Smith is an
09:38:03 outstanding gentleman.
09:38:06 Just as an advocate, he has never once not called me
09:38:09 back, not replied to my e-mails, and has given me
09:38:13 fabulous insight on problems in the legal department,
09:38:17 and believe me there's a lot of problems.
09:38:19 The second thing is, as far as heard in the news about
09:38:23 the police cars, I definitely think we need to provide
09:38:26 them with the funding, even if it comes down that
09:38:30 elected officials take a cut in pay if it comes to
09:38:34 The third thing I would like to talk about is nuisance
09:38:39 We have been going on and on and on about getting a
09:38:41 nuisance abatement board working.
09:38:45 It has been months.
09:38:48 I talked to every single board member.
09:38:50 They are totally frustrated.
09:38:53 I did talk to Darrell Smith this morning, and he said
09:38:56 he would get with legal and TPD and see what they can
09:39:00 do to accelerate it.
09:39:02 But I am asking each and every one of you to please
09:39:06 contact the administration give your support for
09:39:11 Nuisance Abatement Board and try to expedite it.
09:39:22 There's nab sense in having meeting after meeting
09:39:24 after meeting if we do not have cases in line to be
09:39:28 We are taking advantage of the volunteers, we are
09:39:31 taking time and money of the legal staff.
09:39:34 We are taking -- it's a waste of money unless we use
09:39:40 the abatement board.
09:39:42 If you would all individually contact the
09:39:44 administration and push to get this board active and
09:39:47 It is active.
09:39:48 But I mean get them some material to work with.
09:39:54 I would appreciate it.
09:39:55 Thank you.
09:39:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
09:39:58 Next speaker.
09:39:59 Anyone else?
09:40:00 Anyone else wish to address council?
09:40:05 All right.
09:40:07 Then we'll move then to any reconsideration of
09:40:11 legislative matters from the public.
09:40:15 We'll take up now -- we are moving real quick this
09:40:32 First reading consideration.
09:40:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want to take that WZ 113?
09:40:37 I believe the clerk has that.
09:40:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mary Mulhern, do you want to read
09:40:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance making lawful the
09:40:59 sale of beverages regardless of alcoholic content beer
09:41:01 and wine and liquor 4(COP-X) for consumption on
09:41:05 premises only at or from that certain lot plot or
09:41:09 tract of land located at 218 Westshore plaza, Tampa,
09:41:12 Florida as more particularly described in section 2
09:41:15 hereof waiving certain restrictions as to distance
09:41:18 based upon certain findings imposing certain
09:41:20 conditions, providing for the repeal of all ordinances
09:41:23 in conflict, providing an effective date.
09:41:27 >>> Second.
09:41:29 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:41:33 The second reading of the ordinance will be held July
09:41:35 31st at 9:30 a.m.
09:41:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item number 4, which is also first
09:41:43 reading consideration.
09:41:53 Anyone from the public wish to address council on this
09:41:58 What's the pleasure of council?
09:42:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
09:42:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Read it?
09:42:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question.
09:42:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
09:42:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This is vacating.
09:42:10 Maybe because we are running so fast, staff is usually
09:42:14 here to discuss vacatings.
09:42:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby?
09:42:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't recall exactly why this -- I
09:42:22 believe it might be something that was brought back.
09:42:25 If you would like to pass this and I can find out, if
09:42:27 you have concerns about that.
09:42:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: They usually make a presentation on
09:42:37 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, in looking at this,
09:42:39 I'm familiar with this area.
09:42:40 It's probably in the Huntington area.
09:42:44 And this area is probably going to be a gated
09:42:48 That's probably what it is.
09:42:51 They are city streets now.
09:42:52 Wesley Drive.
09:42:55 Off Tampa Palms Boulevard.
09:43:01 Tampa Palms.
09:43:02 That's probably what it is.
09:43:03 It's the first time I heard about it.
09:43:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: May we pass this, please?
09:43:07 And I'll make inquiry and come back.
09:43:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So it can come back later on in our
09:43:14 We will move to our committee reports.
09:43:17 Public safety, Councilwoman Miller.
09:43:19 >>GWEN MILLER: I move items 6 through 13.
09:43:22 >> Second.
09:43:24 (Motion carried).
09:43:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, so moved.
09:43:28 Parks and recreation, Councilwoman Linda Saul-Sena is
09:43:31 not here.
09:43:31 So again Councilwoman Miller.
09:43:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Want to hold 14, 15 and 16 still?
09:43:38 Hold 14, 15, 16.
09:43:40 Number 17 through 25.
09:43:50 >> Second.
09:43:52 (Motion carried).
09:43:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Public works, Charlie Miranda.
09:43:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move items number 26 through
09:43:58 number 32.
09:44:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
09:44:02 (Motion carried).
09:44:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Finance Committee.
09:44:08 Councilwoman Mary Mulhern.
09:44:09 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 33 and 34.
09:44:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
09:44:14 (Motion carried).
09:44:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Building and zoning.
09:44:22 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to move items 35
09:44:24 through 46.
09:44:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
09:44:30 (Motion carried).
09:44:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Transportation committee, councilman
09:44:35 John Dingfelder.
09:44:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move committee items 47 through
09:44:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:44:54 (Motion carried)
09:44:59 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to set public hearings for
09:45:01 items 66 through 68.
09:45:04 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
09:45:08 (Motion carried).
09:45:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Now we'll go back to the pulled items
09:45:14 and address those items 14, 15, 16.
09:45:17 Councilman Dingfelder.
09:45:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Staff probably wants to be here to
09:45:34 speak to these but while they are on their way let me
09:45:36 speak to my concern especially item 14.
09:45:39 All three of these items are public art items which I
09:45:41 have no problem with, I'm in favor of public art.
09:45:44 I'm in favor of our public art program.
09:45:49 That's where we have a small set-aside in our public
09:45:53 construction fund to use for public art and I think
09:45:56 that's a good thing to enlighten our lives.
09:45:59 The concern I have is specifically with item 14.
09:46:04 Item 14 is one of the "Lights on Tampa" projects which
09:46:12 as I understand it in speaking with staff this week is
09:46:15 to hang some of those decorative lights in whatever
09:46:19 light show, that sort of thing, on a temporary basis
09:46:22 on the -- there's Robin to help us -- on the outside
09:46:25 of the convention center.
09:46:31 Robin, it's my understanding in talking to staff that
09:46:33 this item is $170,000, which again, you know, I'm not
09:46:39 thrilled with the high cost but I can live with it.
09:46:42 But my concern is that -- it's broken out into two
09:46:47 $100 that you is my understanding which comes out of
09:46:50 Robin's pool of money from the public art program.
09:46:53 That's fine.
09:46:53 That's what that money is supposed to be there for.
09:46:55 But then the $70,000 I understand is coming out of
09:46:58 John Moore's convention center funds.
09:47:02 John always -- he has his own also unit over there
09:47:06 economically, and he always strives to make a profit.
09:47:09 This year, I understand that things are going real
09:47:14 well at the convention center, and he's making a
09:47:17 So out of the goodness of John's heart, he's taken his
09:47:21 $70,000, given to the Robin and her group to help
09:47:24 decorate the outside of the building with public art.
09:47:28 Robin, tell me where I'm wrong.
09:47:32 My concern is this.
09:47:37 We have said all along that we need to help our
09:47:39 general fund, okay?
09:47:41 And John's money -- John has one of the few places in
09:47:44 the city where we are actually making money.
09:47:50 And we can take the money that John makes, and I'm
09:47:52 sure it's more than $70,000, and we can put it in the
09:47:55 general fund to help our general fund, to help save
09:47:58 jobs, to help do the good work that we do in the city.
09:48:01 And that's not to say that the work that you all do
09:48:04 isn't important and isn't good work.
09:48:06 But in times of financial crisis like we are right
09:48:09 now, I think all of our money that we can keep in the
09:48:18 general fund, save in the general fund needs to stay
09:48:21 And I would respectfully suggest -- and I asked Jim
09:48:23 Stefan yesterday, that if you have other money, that
09:48:27 you can use other money from your program which I know
09:48:29 is not -- if you can use other money from your program
09:48:33 to replace the 70,000 of John Moore's money.
09:48:37 I've said a lot, Robin, Mr. Chairman.
09:48:40 Carry on.
09:48:43 >> Robin Nigh.
09:48:45 Thank you for letting me have the opportunity to speak
09:48:47 to this.
09:48:47 One of the things I want to mention to give you a
09:48:49 little bit of background how this project came to be,
09:48:53 one of the things the Public Art Committee has been
09:48:55 working diligently on for years in Lights on Tampa is
09:48:58 actually very much a product of that.
09:49:01 It's partnership.
09:49:02 And whether that is interdepartmental partnerships or
09:49:05 whether that is partnerships with the private sector,
09:49:09 it has really allowed us to leverage and to go a lot
09:49:12 further and to do a lot more.
09:49:13 One of the things again that was a product of this
09:49:17 particular project that you review today is that the
09:49:20 artist is giving us an opportunity for us to pool
09:49:25 together and work together.
09:49:26 It was in the work plan, I guess the Tampa Convention
09:49:29 Center employees had recommended to John at a staff
09:49:34 meeting over two years ago that they would like to
09:49:36 have a public art component to really enhance this
09:49:39 facility and certainly give it curb appeal, enhance
09:49:45 the environment and the experience for conventioneers,
09:49:48 and it's that type of investment that is permanent
09:49:53 Likewise the Public Art Committee wanted to assist
09:49:55 that, leverage it, give it a greater bang for the buck
09:49:58 so to speak, so came up with more than half matches
09:50:06 So that is really the background it how it evolved.
09:50:09 It has been in our work plan for well over two years,
09:50:12 and public arts projects oftentimes, transportation
09:50:16 projects or other major projects, take a long time,
09:50:19 everyone though sometimes what we do might be viewed
09:50:22 as an enhancement, it really is very much enhancing
09:50:27 the quality of life and creating an environment.
09:50:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, does a great job.
09:50:42 Like I say, I'm in favor of public art.
09:50:44 And I know it's been on the books for more than two
09:50:49 The problem is, our financial condition has changed
09:50:53 over the last two years.
09:50:54 People are losing their jobs, you know, we are
09:50:56 tightening our budget, we have got a bill that we just
09:51:00 approved a few minutes ago, 800,000 additional
09:51:04 dollars, police car gasoline, because of the high cost
09:51:08 of gas.
09:51:08 It goes on and on and on.
09:51:10 I think that just like when we run our homes and hit
09:51:16 bumps in the road we have to tighten up.
09:51:19 And I don't want to hold this project up to say that,
09:51:21 you know -- I mean, I want to hold it up for a few
09:51:24 weeks and find out about the money.
09:51:29 Instead of $70,000 from the convention center, I would
09:51:32 like to see some program with some other capital
09:51:37 programs perhaps, something like that.
09:51:39 So that way we can conserve that 70,000.
09:51:43 It's not a huge amount of money.
09:51:44 I mean, we have almost a billion dollar budget in this
09:51:48 70,000 we can dismiss but we have to start somewhere.
09:51:53 >>> With all due respect, 70,000, I understand it is a
09:51:56 lot of money and for a public art project it's a lot.
09:51:59 It's a lot.
09:52:01 And to delay it respectfully would really cripple the
09:52:05 project and it would not be done under deadline and
09:52:08 then it would really essentially -- it would
09:52:11 jeopardize the success of Lights on Tampa, I'm fairly
09:52:14 >> Are you saying a one-week delay is going to cripple
09:52:19 the project?
09:52:19 >>> By the time it comes back again for the artists to
09:52:22 begin -- again it's very tight on his schedule is the
09:52:29 problem, because fabrication, for design, for
09:52:31 engineering, for all of that to be installed and ready
09:52:33 to so to speak have a light switch come on in January
09:52:40 of 2009, we are running tight.
09:52:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I'll make a motion if nobody
09:52:51 else wants to speak to this.
09:53:02 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm going to give you a little lecture
09:53:04 here because this is my former career, was in the
09:53:11 It's not called arts.
09:53:12 It's called decoration.
09:53:14 This is art.
09:53:15 And this is "Lights on Tampa" is the project that has
09:53:18 been recognized internationally as a great public art
09:53:23 And this is the first thing that I can think of since
09:53:29 I have lived here that Tampa can say, we were the
09:53:31 first city to do something.
09:53:33 I mean, if you can think of something that Tampa did
09:53:37 first in the last 12 years, I challenge you to do
09:53:43 And it's the traditional thing whenever we are in a
09:53:49 budget crunch to cut arts and culture and education.
09:53:53 And guess what, all the economics, the best investment
09:54:01 that you can make for economic development is in the
09:54:03 arts. And especially with the convention center and
09:54:03 tourism, that's a huge draw for us.
09:54:12 It's much better investment for our community to spend
09:54:16 on the arts than to spend on sports, for instance.
09:54:18 And I also think Robin needs to be given a lot of
09:54:20 credit because all of this "Lights on Tampa" project
09:54:26 has been done by her, and the one other art employee
09:54:30 that we have in the city, we have two arts and culture
09:54:33 full-time employees in the city, and she has done
09:54:36 public-private partnership with this city to put us on
09:54:39 the map in this area of the arts in a way that has
09:54:45 just been fantastic for us.
09:54:48 I don't think there's any reason to not pay an artist
09:54:54 to do this work and it's something cutting edge that
09:54:57 we are not even seeing in other cities, in Florida
09:55:00 much less in this country.
09:55:02 And it's also something that's going to be in place
09:55:04 for the Super Bowl, where we will be getting all of
09:55:07 this national, international attention to the city.
09:55:12 It's going to make us look great.
09:55:14 It's a great investment.
09:55:15 And I just can't support even waiting a week to pay
09:55:21 for this good investment.
09:55:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
09:55:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not worried about making us
09:55:27 look great.
09:55:28 We are already great.
09:55:30 Sometimes not as good as others but we are great.
09:55:33 But I think what has to be explained here, because I'm
09:55:35 asked this and I'm sure each member of council is on
09:55:38 an ongoing basis, why are you spending this money when
09:55:41 we need this, that or the other?
09:55:44 And it's hard to, on a quick minute or two that you
09:55:48 have walking the street or walking to get a Cuban
09:55:52 sandwich or a nice cup of bisque or something, to
09:55:57 answer all these questions.
09:55:59 These moneys are not directly from taxpayers pockets
09:56:04 that we are using to do this.
09:56:06 This is from items that we are on, and I think it's 1%
09:56:14 that you have to put for public arts and the sector.
09:56:17 So these moneys -- because I have asked that every
09:56:20 week somewhere, someone stops me and asks me that same
09:56:24 I give them the same answer.
09:56:26 It's not directly tax money it comes from the pocket
09:56:29 of those who are building a beautiful place, to make
09:56:32 it even better, and they willingly, even though it's
09:56:36 the law, want to do this to enhance the area, enhance
09:56:39 their business.
09:56:41 So that's what this is about.
09:56:45 So it's public art means a lot.
09:56:50 When I was in Spain years ago, I noticed that the
09:56:54 city -- and most cities in Spain have a lot of art.
09:57:01 Some makes sense, some doesn't, to me.
09:57:03 But guess what -- to the next person, it all does, and
09:57:06 it all doesn't.
09:57:09 Art is to the eye of the beholder.
09:57:11 That's how I got married.
09:57:13 You know?
09:57:15 She didn't get the bargain she thought she got, but
09:57:17 that's what she got.
09:57:18 But what I'm saying is these things mean a lot to the
09:57:24 I'm not worried about who is coming and who is going.
09:57:27 I'm worried about who is staying.
09:57:30 Because citizens of this city deserve a better place
09:57:32 to live.
09:57:33 And I think arts means a lot. It helps you understand
09:57:40 I think if kids were taught a lot more about the
09:57:44 public art and crafts and things of this nature, you
09:57:46 have a decline in a lot of crime throughout the years
09:57:49 of their lives.
09:57:51 It has a calming effect.
09:57:53 And these things I will always support.
09:57:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me just qualify, Charlie.
09:58:00 Item 14 if you look at it is a transfer allocation
09:58:04 proposition, $175,000.
09:58:07 Within the public art trust fund I'm fine with.
09:58:09 But the next item is transfer from the general fund.
09:58:12 And what that is is the fact that $70,000 of this
09:58:15 money coming from John Moore's group and the
09:58:19 convention center because he's made a profit this
09:58:21 year, that is going into the general fund that could
09:58:23 be used for the general fund but instead now they are
09:58:26 suggesting that we transfer 70,000 out of the general
09:58:29 fund and put it into public art fund to pay this
09:58:35 I appreciate your lecture and I appreciate your
09:58:37 history because I agree with you 100%.
09:58:39 I'm fine with public art and I said that to start
09:58:42 I'm just not fine with the source of this money.
09:58:44 The general fund is the general fund.
09:58:46 It is the taxpayers money.
09:58:48 For every $70,000 that we are going to not have from
09:58:55 John Moore's convention center group over there into
09:58:57 the general fund it's an additional $70,000 that
09:59:00 taxpayers have to come up with to pay for fire, parks,
09:59:03 et cetera, et cetera.
09:59:03 That's where I am coming from.
09:59:05 I'm not trying to be a bad guy for public art, and
09:59:07 nobody should get me wrong on that, but I think we
09:59:10 need to delay this for a week, tell the administration
09:59:13 to find it somewhere else, either in capital, or in
09:59:17 public arts funds themselves and not pull it out of
09:59:19 the general fund.
09:59:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council Miranda.
09:59:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me very calmly suggest, the
09:59:30 facts are that every department in this city has a
09:59:35 fund to do something to enhance and better themselves.
09:59:39 But when you look at sanitation trucks, they have the
09:59:42 seal of the city on the side of the truck.
09:59:46 Is that considered advertising?
09:59:47 I think it is.
09:59:48 But it's doing the job.
09:59:51 Everything that we do has the seal of the city
09:59:54 A convention center for many years was not profitable.
09:59:59 And I don't mean just breaking even.
10:00:02 I mean losing money.
10:00:06 And bleeding.
10:00:08 They needed a transfusion real, real bad, and we were
10:00:11 running out of participants that were willing to give
10:00:13 that transfusion.
10:00:15 When you look at the center -- and I'm not here to
10:00:23 speak on their behalf, I'm surer this capable of doing
10:00:26 that on their own -- we came up with a determination
10:00:28 years ago that what we wanted that convention center
10:00:31 to do was to break even.
10:00:34 Why did we do that?
10:00:35 First of all, it was a convention center built without
10:00:39 no convention center hotel.
10:00:40 Many of us that are here, we were the forefront, the
10:00:44 city was, to help build the first hotel.
10:00:46 Guess what happened.
10:00:47 Had a Domino effect.
10:00:48 The second hotel came on.
10:00:50 Now we have the activity that is needed to keep that
10:00:54 blood bumping to the heart of the convention center to
10:00:58 make it more applicable to bring business.
10:01:00 We are not a one convention center extensively large.
10:01:08 We have a little over 200,000 square feet, if memory
10:01:11 serves me correct, and we can't compete in that tier,
10:01:14 but we do compete in the tier we have now.
10:01:17 And I think between the convention center and those
10:01:19 other affiliation that is are here to bring business
10:01:21 to this city -- and it not only the hotels.
10:01:24 Hotels are the first layer, the shops, the
10:01:30 restaurants, the cabs, the amount of revenue that is
10:01:33 created on a turnover basis when you have tourism in
10:01:36 this city, the sidewalk used to be rolled up at 5:30
10:01:40 It's no longer rolled up at 5:30.
10:01:42 We didn't have a destination area.
10:01:45 Thank you for agreeing, Mr. Chairman.
10:01:47 You are the first one to agree with me in 22 years.
10:01:50 But all those things happen because everyone took a
10:01:54 step forward to make this city a better place to live.
10:01:58 Do I agree that moneys are being used in this expense?
10:02:05 I think so.
10:02:06 In fact when I vote I'll prove that I think so.
10:02:08 But it's a necessary thing to get some ambience to
10:02:13 this city to -- I think Mrs. Mulhern put it pretty
10:02:18 clearly when she said this isn't about sports.
10:02:21 And I don't think, I know that what she stated, it
10:02:24 brings more money than any other sport is a concrete
10:02:28 evidence, not by me, and I don't believe by what she
10:02:31 said, but proved by national associations who do the
10:02:33 ranking with people moving in, they want two or three
10:02:37 or four things, and sports in the top five.
10:02:40 They want quality of life issues, police protection,
10:02:43 education, and arts.
10:02:45 Maybe not in that order, but it's ranked up there.
10:02:48 They want the calmness where a family can grow and
10:02:52 And these things are necessary.
10:02:54 And I'm not doing it for any item that's coming here
10:02:56 for one day or two days.
10:02:58 I'm doing it for the benefit of those who are staying
10:03:00 here, who have a better life, those who come in and
10:03:06 pay to go to Lowry Park and the aquarium, that the
10:03:10 taxpayers are doing that.
10:03:11 It has to be a continued effort.
10:03:13 When you stop productivity like this country is going
10:03:17 now, you have a default at the end, because at the end
10:03:19 when the last Domino falls there is no one else to
10:03:24 hold it up.
10:03:25 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:03:28 >>MARY MULHERN: I am going to try to be brief because
10:03:30 of course we could argue this all day.
10:03:32 But thank you for backing me up.
10:03:34 The economic evidence is just incontrovertible, arts
10:03:40 bring money to the communities and bring business to
10:03:42 the communities and bring the kind of jobs that we
10:03:45 And one of the biggest problems we have, and I think
10:03:48 this was just in the paper recently again, is that
10:03:51 this city is having creative brain drainage.
10:03:55 Can't keep young people here because we don't have the
10:03:58 kind of opportunities and the kind of life-style and
10:04:03 the kind of experiences that those kinds of people
10:04:08 So this is a hugely important investment.
10:04:12 To me it's a pitifully small investment, $70,000, and
10:04:17 I also have to say we are talking about two people,
10:04:21 John and Robin Nigh who have done great things for
10:04:24 Mr. Moore is the reason that they are more than
10:04:27 breaking even, and he's figured out what are the right
10:04:33 things to invest in, and he's made this decision that
10:04:36 he wants to contribute this $70,000, not out of the
10:04:40 goodness of his heart, but because it's a good
10:04:43 business decision that's going to make the convention
10:04:45 center look good, make the city look good, and I just
10:04:49 think this is -- this is a wise investment and I want
10:04:55 to continue to support these things so Tampa can
10:04:58 continue be first.
10:05:05 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, so I'm hearing that
10:05:07 the convention center has turned a profit this year of
10:05:11 >> At least.
10:05:14 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Who is paying the bonds on the
10:05:16 construction of the convention center?
10:05:20 We the people are.
10:05:21 So there really was in a profit.
10:05:23 It's not true.
10:05:30 >>> I don't know if I can jump in or not and forgive
10:05:32 me if I am out of line but my understanding the
10:05:34 convention center, their profit was over a million
10:05:37 dollars and their bonds everybody paid off.
10:05:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The annual bond debt was paid off
10:05:45 by the taxpayers.
10:05:46 It not a net profit.
10:05:47 It's a net profit after the bonds have been paid off.
10:05:49 And you're absolutely right, Joseph.
10:05:56 And John Moore has done a great job, but it's not John
10:06:00 Moore's money.
10:06:01 It's the public's money.
10:06:02 So with all due respect, John -- he's out of town
10:06:05 which is another reason probably to defer this maybe
10:06:07 for two weeks.
10:06:10 The other clarification we need for item 15, because
10:06:15 Robin, you said earlier this is a permanent
10:06:17 installation but it describes it as a -- it says to
10:06:23 create and install the art work of a temporary art
10:06:25 work, and then it says retain the artists to
10:06:31 And I have had a little problem with some of these
10:06:33 lights on projects because I think they are beautiful
10:06:37 Ba then they are gone within six months to a year.
10:06:39 They are of a temporary nature and I think the public
10:06:42 money should be spent on permanent fixtures of art,
10:06:44 not temporary ones.
10:06:45 But that's not my motion.
10:06:47 My motion is that I don't think that general fund is
10:06:50 the appropriate place to be funding these.
10:06:53 And I would like to defer this for two weeks to give
10:06:57 the administration an opportunity to find $70,000 from
10:07:01 a different fund but not the general fund.
10:07:04 And I think that would be more appropriate related to
10:07:07 finance this project.
10:07:09 So I'll defer items 14 and 15 on that basis.
10:07:15 >> Motion.
10:07:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: On item 15, it says temporary
10:07:25 To the existing streetlight fixtures located in the
10:07:27 proximate. Tampa convention center and permanent art
10:07:32 Unless my eyes are lying to me.
10:07:34 One is temporary and then there's permanent.
10:07:38 May I ask you, young lady, to explain what you know
10:07:40 about this project?
10:07:43 >>> You're absolutely right.
10:07:44 There is a permanent component in the Rotunda of the
10:07:47 convention center and then a temporary lighting
10:07:49 component that will create an environment in the
10:07:52 surrounding area as well.
10:07:53 And one of the things I should also mention is that we
10:07:56 have a lot of partners involved in this that are
10:07:58 bringing -- Hart is involved because it will be the
10:08:04 streetcar lights, and we are engaging the expressway
10:08:09 authority and the riverwalk as well.
10:08:11 But you are absolutely right.
10:08:12 It is both permanent and there's a temporary component
10:08:18 as well.
10:08:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, if I may continue for
10:08:21 one more question.
10:08:22 I hate to put you on the spot but you are the only one
10:08:24 here to answer that possibly.
10:08:26 Out of the $170,000, are you prepared to tell this
10:08:29 council what part of that money is permanent and what
10:08:32 part is temporary?
10:08:34 I would imagine the temporary is for some gala
10:08:38 festivities things that's coming to town and you
10:08:40 want --
10:08:44 >>> As you mentioned it is for the citizens very much
10:08:45 like the lights-on that is at the University of Tampa.
10:08:49 But, yes, you're right in the sense that there is this
10:08:52 And to break it out in the budget, we did look at
10:08:54 that, and it's a little challenging and certainly your
10:08:58 hard costs of what is for the temporary component.
10:09:03 But you are renting lifts and you need the wiring, you
10:09:08 need wiring for both.
10:09:09 So there is a lot of overlap in terms of expenses from
10:09:13 one portion of the project to the other.
10:09:15 And actually that's one reason why we were able to
10:09:18 negotiate our prices further down, because we are able
10:09:20 again to leverage what we can.
10:09:22 >> I still don't have an answer to that.
10:09:27 It's like building a house without a roof.
10:09:30 You have to have the roof to secure the interior
10:09:33 elements so the furnitures and fixtures are not ruined
10:09:35 and I guess somewhere along the line somebody has to
10:09:38 have some proportionate value as to what is what.
10:09:41 I am still for the project.
10:09:43 I would like to see it somewhere along this morning
10:09:47 you can come back and tell us approximately what that
10:09:49 cost is.
10:09:49 I have no qualms for holding it for an hour or two but
10:09:52 I don't want to hold it for two weeks.
10:09:53 >> I could try to address that now if you like.
10:09:55 >> Okay.
10:09:57 >>> The numbers that he gave, again we really try to
10:09:59 address that even though as I mentioned there are
10:10:02 these overlapping costs.
10:10:03 But the permanent installation, somewhere between 120
10:10:08 and 130, and then you have the temporary components as
10:10:12 But I say that with the very knowledge again that if
10:10:15 you break it apart, one component is going to go up,
10:10:19 because again because of the equipment and the
10:10:23 materials that are shared between installations.
10:10:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have a motion by councilman
10:10:31 Dingfelder, seconded by councilman Caetano to delay
10:10:34 for two weeks items 14 and 15.
10:10:36 All in favor of the motion signify by saying Aye.
10:10:43 >>THE CLERK: The motion failed with Miller, Miranda,
10:10:49 and Scott and Mulhern voting no.
10:10:56 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to move 14, 15 and 16.
10:11:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion by councilman Miller seconded
10:11:03 by Councilwoman Mulhern to move 14, 15 and 16.
10:11:06 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder voting no.
10:11:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to go back to item 4.
10:11:18 >>JAMES COOK: Land Development Coordination.
10:11:23 I'm sorry about that.
10:11:25 Item number 4 is actually an amendment to an existing
10:11:28 vacating approved in 2005.
10:11:30 It's the Huntington neighborhood in New Tampa.
10:11:32 As part of that vacating there is a requirement in
10:11:34 section 5 of that ordinance that required all 42
10:11:37 abutting owners to deed over their interest of the
10:11:41 homeowners association.
10:11:42 However there was a technicality in the language.
10:11:44 All we are doing is amending that section.
10:11:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, James.
10:11:53 As Mr. Caetano mentioned, where we allowed for them to
10:11:58 gate off?
10:12:00 >>JAMES COOK: Yes, sir.
10:12:01 To privatize the right-of-way.
10:12:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a recollection of voting
10:12:05 against it.
10:12:06 Do you recall?
10:12:08 I think I did vote against it.
10:12:14 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Is that Huntington?
10:12:20 >>> Yes, sir.
10:12:23 To make them private.
10:12:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It used to be -- maybe they wanted
10:12:28 to take a gate up and take the street over themselves.
10:12:33 There's argument they have to maintain it themselves.
10:12:35 That's good news.
10:12:36 But now it's just one more private gated community in
10:12:39 Tampa which I don't think is in the best interest of
10:12:40 our city.
10:12:45 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Maybe that's why the city is in
10:12:47 there at the present time fixing the sidewalks, but
10:12:50 that's going to be their responsibility.
10:12:51 >>JAMES COOK: And they have had an issue ever since we
10:12:54 approved it in 2005 about the language in section 5,
10:12:59 and legal department discovered it.
10:13:01 That language prohibited the owners from deeding over
10:13:04 the interest of the homeowners association.
10:13:06 All we are doing is amending that section.
10:13:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
10:13:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we need a motion to close.
10:13:19 And read. Okay.
10:13:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move item number 4, Mr. Chairman.
10:13:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Read it?
10:13:34 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance amending ordinance
10:13:43 2005-56 vacating, closing, discontinuing, and
10:13:46 abandoning all those certain rights-of-way known as
10:13:49 Wesley Drive and Langhorne court lying off of Tampa
10:13:52 Palms Boulevard west, in the map of Tampa Palms area
10:13:55 2, 7-E unit 2, a subdivision within the Tampa Palms
10:14:00 community development district, the City of Tampa,
10:14:02 Hillsborough County Florida amending section 5 of said
10:14:04 ordinance to require all title holders of the property
10:14:07 abutting the proposed vacated rights-of-way described
10:14:10 therein to convey their interest in said rights-of-way
10:14:13 to the Huntington at Tampa Palms homeowners
10:14:18 association, providing an effective date.
10:14:24 >> Second.
10:14:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:14:28 All in favor let it be known by Aye.
10:14:32 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and
10:14:36 Mulhern voting no, and Saul-Sena being absent at vote.
10:14:43 Second reading of the ordinance will be scheduled July
10:14:46 31st at 9:30 a.m
10:15:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's about 10:18.
10:15:02 Staff reports --
10:15:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move that Cindy Miller's memo
10:15:10 we postpone until the October workshop.
10:15:16 That's my motion.
10:15:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The October workshop, council, is
10:15:20 October 23rd.
10:15:21 You have a 9 a.m. commendation for police Officer of
10:15:24 the Month.
10:15:24 I believe you have -- I don't know if council wants to
10:15:28 do any other commendations but that's the only thing
10:15:31 you currently have on your October workshop.
10:15:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: A good time to hear about the green
10:15:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: What time does council wish?
10:15:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Start off at, what, 9:15 after
10:15:47 How many commendations have we got?
10:15:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Only one in October.
10:15:55 Let's do it for 9:15, give ourselves some latitude.
10:16:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman --
10:16:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We need to get a vote.
10:16:09 9:15. October.
10:16:11 (Motion carried)
10:16:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:16:13 >> Reading the agenda, I think there's some items that
10:16:13 cannot be heard.
10:16:47 >> All those items we took care of -- took care of when
10:16:50 we dealt with the changes.
10:16:52 So we are at staff report.
10:16:56 Done with staff reports.
10:16:57 Item 78.
10:17:04 >>KAREN PALUS: I'm here on 78 and 79.
10:17:07 First on 78 in regards to the Guida house.
10:17:11 We had we had about 25 or 30 individuals from the
10:17:15 community at a meeting.
10:17:16 A great meeting.
10:17:17 A lot of good feedback.
10:17:19 We shared with them some of the constraints of the
10:17:24 building itself and some of the compatible uses that
10:17:27 relates to the park acquisition funds that for the
10:17:32 purchase of the building as well as compatibility
10:17:35 within the neighborhood.
10:17:36 We talked with them on some different ideas that they
10:17:39 may have and got a lot of good feedback so we'll be
10:17:44 incorporating some of those into the requests for
10:17:46 proposal which will be our next step through the real
10:17:48 estate department.
10:17:49 Also, what came out of that meeting is the community
10:17:51 is very interested in bringing all of their different
10:17:53 groups together to sort of an umbrella organization,
10:17:57 to kind ever spearhead some of the improvements of the
10:18:00 queued a house, if there is a private-public center
10:18:04 opportunity there, they would like to explore that but
10:18:07 if not they would like to see the facility within the
10:18:10 group working together to come up with a way to do
10:18:13 improvements to the queued a house to have it open to
10:18:15 the public, available.
10:18:16 One of the things they talked about, which was very
10:18:18 much under discussion throughout the entire meeting,
10:18:23 was having it available, open to the public, for
10:18:25 community meetings, community functions, talk about
10:18:28 small weddings, small receptions and such, which kind
10:18:31 of lends itself to that facility.
10:18:33 One of the other areas that they are most interested
10:18:35 and most concerned about is not having real large
10:18:39 support facilities adjacent to and/or attached to the
10:18:43 So those were the issues that really came out.
10:18:47 One, on to the public and accessibility.
10:18:49 It really is Mr. Queued a, the direction came from the
10:18:56 We'll be getting back with them on additional
10:18:59 We are still taking comments from some folks and we
10:19:01 have organizations helping get the word out and
10:19:03 communicating ideas and thoughts.
10:19:04 So we are moving forward with the.
10:19:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to thank you and your staff
10:19:15 for working very diligently and doing a marvelous job
10:19:18 this past Saturday at the housing workshop that was
10:19:20 conducted by Congresswoman Kathy castor at Al Lopez
10:19:25 park, you all did an outstanding job and we want to
10:19:29 thank you.
10:19:30 >>KAREN PALUS: Thank you very much.
10:19:33 I'll share that.
10:19:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions on item 78?
10:19:38 >> I'll move on to item 79. That was in relationship
10:19:43 to questions regarding operation in the restrooms at
10:19:44 the 18th Avenue street park in East Tampa.
10:19:49 What I shared in the memo, we originally had operated
10:19:52 a supervised playground facility there, but due to our
10:19:55 lack of registration from participants, now it would
10:20:01 be part of the center, so we are not staffing that
10:20:05 Any supervised facility requires us to have two
10:20:07 individuals at the location, and so based on the
10:20:10 registrations and such, we work with the kids that
10:20:13 were participating to make sure they are incorporated
10:20:15 into the center so they are having a great center, and
10:20:18 spending time there.
10:20:19 There's a lot more amenities, it's a better
10:20:22 utilization of our staff.
10:20:25 Regarding the restrooms facilities, we are opening
10:20:28 those restrooms.
10:20:28 One of the things that is happening through the
10:20:30 contract mowing, reallocate.
10:20:36 We have gone to a 7 day a week operation.
10:20:39 We have done that over this last year.
10:20:40 And we'll continue to be able to open and close
10:20:43 restrooms and make them available.
10:20:45 They had been on a reservation only.
10:20:47 However, they are going to be 18th Avenue but also
10:20:51 in a lot of our unsupervised unmanned parks throughout
10:20:54 the city, we work with that process.
10:20:56 If there's any large groups we can plan for that and
10:20:58 put it into our planning process and make sure it's
10:21:00 open, clean and available for use.
10:21:03 We have had comments and concerns from the community
10:21:06 before with large groups that have shown up there, and
10:21:12 trying to be sensitive to the community in that regard
10:21:15 and be responsive to them.
10:21:16 We'll monitor that.
10:21:17 They will be open and available and continuing to do
10:21:19 that throughout our system as we are able to restaff
10:21:21 and reallocate our folks on the weekend.
10:21:31 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I want to thank Karen for her and
10:21:34 her staff's efforts in New Tampa.
10:21:37 I have had a lot of people called me and met me on the
10:21:39 street who tell me how successful it is, and that it's
10:21:42 really needed.
10:21:43 It's doing great.
10:21:48 >>KAREN PALUS: Thank you.
10:21:48 I really appreciate that and I'll share that.
10:21:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
10:21:54 Item 80.
10:21:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, if I may speak on 80.
10:22:01 Jan McLean called me as I was coming in and asked for
10:22:04 a continuation.
10:22:06 Oh, I didn't see you.
10:22:07 I'm sorry.
10:22:08 I didn't want to speak on your behalf.
10:22:11 >> Good morning, Mr. Chair, council.
10:22:14 I appreciate it.
10:22:15 But it true, I do want to speak to the request, the
10:22:19 motion on the agenda on number 80, and we have done
10:22:25 some work.
10:22:26 The staff of the water department and myself, reviewed
10:22:29 the code.
10:22:30 We do believe there is an opportunity for
10:22:31 clarification within the code.
10:22:36 With other local governments that have experienced
10:22:39 similar occurrences.
10:22:42 We don't want to provide any kind of recommendation
10:22:44 that might have some unintended consequences given
10:22:46 that we have had the short period of time to be able
10:22:48 to generate any recommendations to you.
10:22:51 And I would request a continuance to come back for any
10:22:57 However I would request 60 days.
10:23:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I agree with that.
10:23:02 Mr. Chairman, if I may speak to it.
10:23:03 What this is, it only speaks to application for
10:23:10 connection to water.
10:23:12 When you apply for that, you have met the
10:23:15 It doesn't say that you shall have a water meter,
10:23:19 because rate now, I can name you at least one that we
10:23:22 have been looking at, where a neighbor has an
10:23:25 exorbitant water bill, and guess what -- the next door
10:23:29 neighbor is there getting garbage pickup, getting all
10:23:32 the city amenities, and there is no water meter,
10:23:35 because they have applied with the -- complied with
10:23:38 the intent of the law which was to apply for a meter,
10:23:41 not the actual hookup for a meter.
10:23:43 So that's what started this.
10:23:46 Sixty days I agree with.
10:23:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:23:50 (Motion carried)
10:24:00 Item 81.
10:24:04 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:24:05 I did submit the report of Mrs. Miller giving
10:24:11 information on the electronic filing of the reports
10:24:14 for the wet zoning petitions, but per the direction of
10:24:17 councilman Caetano, and if you look at page 2 of the
10:24:20 memo, the suggested change is there. There's one
10:24:23 minor change for that.
10:24:26 Having an electronically accepted form.
10:24:31 We are also looking at creating the form on our web
10:24:33 site, businesses are able to input the information
10:24:36 directly and electronically as well as e-mail and
10:24:40 database, fax numbers for these businesses.
10:24:43 It will cut down on mailing costs.
10:24:46 It will actually save money as well.
10:24:47 And have quicker direct contact and be more of an
10:24:54 E-business for then.
10:24:55 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: So it's in the works?
10:25:01 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes.
10:25:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 82, resolution.
10:25:09 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to speak on item 82.
10:25:11 What we are doing, we are reviewing a contract that
10:25:14 was awarded in '07 for the streetlight signs.
10:25:20 Considering today's economic conditions, we are at an
10:25:23 all-time foreclosure record all over the country.
10:25:27 Banks are going bust.
10:25:30 I have an add on Craig's list for a part-time
10:25:35 I had over 40 people apply for the position.
10:25:41 People with some great resumes.
10:25:44 General Motors hasn't made a dime in three years.
10:25:48 I understand the second bidder was $60,000 higher than
10:25:53 the person that got the bid the last time in '07.
10:25:56 That was a year ago.
10:25:57 Maybe gas was $2.50.
10:26:01 It's $4 and something today.
10:26:05 My motion is to put it out for rebid.
10:26:07 And I think we can get a better price.
10:26:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, before we go into
10:26:14 that mode, I would like to ask the gentleman who I
10:26:17 think knows more about it, Mr. Lee and Mr. Spearman,
10:26:22 to bring council up to speed if I may ask them to come
10:26:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me make a statement here. This is
10:26:28 an item for continuance that has to do with funding
10:26:31 from the CIT.
10:26:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: But I want to clear the air.
10:26:36 I don't want to embarrass anyone.
10:26:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, go ahead.
10:26:41 >>> Irvin Lee, public works director.
10:26:47 And I guess what I would like to do, if there are any
10:26:49 questions regarding the requirement itself.
10:26:53 I did send over as you all requested a list, the
10:26:58 intersections we are working.
10:27:00 As far as the procurement person, I can get Greg
10:27:14 Spearman to answer some of those questions.
10:27:15 >>> Greg Spearman, director of purchasing.
10:27:18 I did want to address the procurement aspects of this
10:27:21 particular project.
10:27:21 And Mr. Lee can talk about the operation, critical
10:27:25 aspects of it.
10:27:27 This was bid a year ago.
10:27:29 We did advertise it locally in the newspaper.
10:27:32 We understand the concerns of councilman Caetano.
10:27:36 But we did reach out to 152 companies at that time.
10:27:41 We had two companies that responded.
10:27:43 Both of those are local Tampa businesses.
10:27:45 We do have a changing economy.
10:27:48 We do have increased costs and prices with regard to
10:27:52 gasoline and that type of thing.
10:27:54 But this company has agreed to proceed under the same
10:27:57 terms, prices and conditions, even though the contract
10:28:03 does allow for that, they are holding firm with the
10:28:05 city in terms of their price.
10:28:06 We do have that statement of intent in their document
10:28:11 in the bid file.
10:28:12 So if you don't have any questions on the procurement
10:28:14 process aspect of it I'll ask Mr. Lee to address it.
10:28:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: This is CIT money?
10:28:28 Regardless whether it's CIT money or taxpayer --
10:28:31 whatever money it is, I think we can get a better
10:28:34 On this item.
10:28:37 So it's going to be the cost of advertising.
10:28:39 I don't know, is there a necessity to get this done
10:28:42 right away?
10:28:43 >>> This is not emergency work, no.
10:28:48 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Did you look at the economic
10:28:51 conditions out there today?
10:28:52 I just talked to somebody who works for one of the
10:28:54 largest builders in the country, and they are changing
10:28:59 their maintenance contracts.
10:29:02 The guy that has the contract in one particular
10:29:05 community, work is very scarce out there.
10:29:12 I mean, you have got to go out there.
10:29:14 It's scary.
10:29:15 We are in trouble in this country.
10:29:16 Just because it's CIT money doesn't mean that we can
10:29:20 spend -- just like the convention center.
10:29:24 They are not in the black.
10:29:25 They are in the red.
10:29:26 Who is paying that mortgage down there?
10:29:28 We are.
10:29:31 >> Let me say this.
10:29:45 As I recall, the prior motion to uphold this item was
10:29:49 never about the bidding processor the price for it.
10:29:52 It was an elaborate request that you, all of you have
10:29:56 addressed the issues.
10:29:57 We asked for the locations of all of these signs.
10:30:02 You all did your due diligence, and I received that
10:30:05 Monday, I think.
10:30:06 And it's listed in page 2.
10:30:08 They are listed by chronological order where they are
10:30:12 We are not moving in this city with any more horse and
10:30:16 We are moving with automobiles.
10:30:19 And what happens today, the little signs that we have
10:30:22 that are about five inches by 12 or 14 inches long,
10:30:27 can't be seen any longer.
10:30:28 They have been there for a long, long time.
10:30:31 That green element is being eroded by either fungus,
10:30:36 or wear and tear on the sun beating on them.
10:30:39 You can look at the one on Cyprus and MacDill.
10:30:44 You can't make the sign out until you see the
10:30:46 illuminated sign and now where they are at.
10:30:48 If we are really going to be a city of visitation, a
10:30:52 city of well-being, a city who is going to prosper, we
10:30:55 must let those who come into this city know where they
10:30:57 are at.
10:30:58 And I'm not trying to debate the issue, but I think
10:31:01 this is a dire need for public safety and concern
10:31:06 because somebody that may get hurt may be one of us,
10:31:09 when somebody is trying to find out where they are at.
10:31:12 And these are -- they are not in every street corner,
10:31:14 but they are major intersections where people can at
10:31:18 least get a mental bearing of where they are at.
10:31:21 This is to the GPS that lets you know right where you
10:31:27 are at and therefore I am going to support the moving
10:31:29 of this resolution when the proper time arrives.
10:31:36 >>> If I could respond to Mr. Caetano's concerns.
10:31:39 Sir, I understand the issues that you bring up,
10:31:44 especially in terms of the dynamics of the
10:31:48 You are correct, it's tough economic times.
10:31:50 The challenge that we have here, this is a specialty
10:31:55 contract, if you will.
10:31:56 These are not the kinds of things that -- a special
10:32:06 statement work.
10:32:08 This is not something that any contractor off the
10:32:13 street will be able to provide.
10:32:16 These signs are particularly listed on the FDOT
10:32:22 qualified list, so, yes, as I mentioned when we talked
10:32:29 earlier, yes, there is the potential that we could get
10:32:32 a better bid.
10:32:34 However, I'm not certain that that will occur.
10:32:44 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: How many did you send out to?
10:32:46 >>> Greg Spearman, director of purchasing.
10:32:48 We solicited 153 through the city's purchasing, 153.
10:32:55 We had two responses came in.
10:32:56 They were both from local Tampa businesses.
10:33:00 We recommended the award to the lowest bidder which is
10:33:02 on your agenda today.
10:33:04 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: That was a year ago.
10:33:05 Bids probably went out a couple of months before.
10:33:07 >>> That is true.
10:33:10 Plus we advertised locally in the newspaper.
10:33:13 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Times have changed, believe me.
10:33:15 We are talking about $7,000 for this art -- 70,000 for
10:33:22 this art work.
10:33:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thanks for deferring this so we can
10:33:31 get additional information.
10:33:32 You know, here's where I was coming from, because I
10:33:38 was the one who pulled this to start with, and talking
10:33:40 about locations, it was about money, it was the fact
10:33:46 that, you know, in addition to zonings, I remember our
10:33:52 responsibility in this government that we have is
10:33:53 about the budget.
10:33:55 And it's not just about the budget on September
10:33:59 17th or whatever the day we vote on it.
10:34:02 It's about the budget all year long.
10:34:03 And in prior years, you know, things weren't so tight.
10:34:06 But now they are tight.
10:34:08 They are tight in the private sector and they are
10:34:10 tight, very, very tight in government and the City of
10:34:14 And the mayor has already indicated that we have to
10:34:16 tighten up and we have to save money wherever we can.
10:34:20 This project is $250,000.
10:34:23 It involves 25 intersections for an approximate
10:34:27 average of $10,000 per intersection.
10:34:31 Irv, I don't know if you know the answer to this
10:34:33 question of the top of your head.
10:34:36 You haven't been here this long.
10:34:37 But how much because it's an illuminated sign it's
10:34:40 $10,000 per intersection.
10:34:42 Charlie, I am totally in agreement.
10:34:43 We have to make sure that when people come to those
10:34:46 intersections they can see and the sign has to be
10:34:51 better and that they have to be big and everything
10:34:53 But I don't know if they have to be illuminated.
10:34:57 That's the new twist in the city.
10:34:59 They are beautiful.
10:35:00 They really are pretty when you come to an
10:35:03 But during these tight times, are we spending extra
10:35:11 money to I will Newt -- illuminate them?
10:35:16 Irv -- with plain, black signs that we have always
10:35:21 done, versus illuminated signs?
10:35:26 Because to me those a big difference.
10:35:31 Charlie, I know, let me just finish.
10:35:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm just warming up.
10:35:36 [ Laughter ]
10:35:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Because that's what this is all
10:35:42 When don't spend $10,000 if it's not illuminated.
10:35:47 $25,000 for this project because you have got to
10:35:49 create a box, you have to have those funds within the
10:35:55 box, and you have to wire them.
10:35:57 That's why this is more expensive than the traditional
10:35:59 approach of just picking up a piece of metal with a
10:36:02 nice green sign on it.
10:36:04 Do you have any idea what the price difference is?
10:36:07 >>> I don't have the numbers on me but there are
10:36:09 tangibles associated with it.
10:36:11 We talked briefly about some of those, the ability to
10:36:14 not only see the sign, visibility, but also --
10:36:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All those intersections, 25 of them
10:36:24 are lighted intersections.
10:36:25 Those are not little dark corners like the corner of
10:36:28 Barcelona and, you know, Oslapia.
10:36:36 These are major intersections, 25 of them and they are
10:36:39 lit with big street signs.
10:36:40 Many much them already have a light so it not like a
10:36:46 dark corner.
10:36:47 Yes, they are intangibles.
10:36:50 Yes, in good economic times I would support this.
10:36:53 But we have got to start pinching our penny.
10:36:55 We have to start somewhere.
10:36:57 Where are we going to start pinching our penny?
10:36:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: My name was mentioned again and I
10:37:03 have to defend my name.
10:37:05 Let me say this.
10:37:06 I agree with everything said.
10:37:07 But it's not right.
10:37:08 And I am going to prove it to you.
10:37:10 Mr. Lee, do you have traffic signalization without --
10:37:18 it would be chaotic in the corner.
10:37:20 Downtown know who goes and who stops.
10:37:21 So what I'm saying is that this city is in dire need
10:37:25 of having these street signs.
10:37:30 Why did the federal government send a rebate check of
10:37:32 $600 to taxpayers?
10:37:35 They sent it for to you stimulate the economy, to make
10:37:38 it grow, to work on it.
10:37:39 Is this throwing away money?
10:37:41 I don't believe so.
10:37:42 This is getting the city where it should be, getting
10:37:45 the citizens where they want to be, and it's getting
10:37:48 the proper documentation all done according to law.
10:37:53 This is continuation.
10:37:56 If you think that you bid out something last year and
10:37:59 you are going to get a better price this year, let me
10:38:02 tell you what, the automobile industry is down.
10:38:05 Try to buy a car for last year's praises at some
10:38:10 You are not going to find that.
10:38:13 If you get a Toyota Prius you are going to have to pay
10:38:17 sticker price or more.
10:38:18 But all the benefits we to we aren't doing it because
10:38:21 we want to do them.
10:38:22 Everything we do in the city is significant to the
10:38:24 people who live here and the people who drive these
10:38:28 We have over 130,000 people a day coming to the city
10:38:31 who don't live here.
10:38:32 And thank God they do, because they buy something
10:38:34 somewhere, they buy gasoline here, they buy food here,
10:38:38 they go out to eat in the restaurants, they work, and
10:38:41 they are entitled to have somewhere.
10:38:42 But what about those when you are driving to a city
10:38:45 and you don't know where you are at?
10:38:46 You get lost.
10:38:47 You can at least read a sign and find out if you have
10:38:50 a city map where you are at.
10:38:51 Not everybody has a GPS.
10:38:53 But what I am saying is, I'm not going to stand here
10:38:56 and grandstand you.
10:38:59 I'm not saying we are grandstanding but I am not going
10:39:02 to make -- in fact, I have been pinching pennies so
10:39:06 much, Lincoln doesn't have a beard.
10:39:08 But I am going to tell you right now, I am going to
10:39:11 prove to you, and I had them here for a proper time,
10:39:14 and this is it, my electric bill and water bill, I am
10:39:18 going to submit them every two months like I promised
10:39:20 to do and I will do that today so maybe somebody will
10:39:23 You can't lead unless you have some followers and I
10:39:25 haven't seen too many followers behind me, I'll tell
10:39:28 you that.
10:39:28 But that's where we are at today and I am going to
10:39:30 support this resolution if it ever comes to a vote.
10:39:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda, you don't have to replace
10:39:40 them like you do over and over.
10:39:49 We are going to have to have faith in our community.
10:39:51 People aren't going to know where they are and going
10:39:53 to have accidents.
10:39:54 If we can save lives I am going to support it.
10:39:56 And this is for our community.
10:39:58 And we are trying to save our community from all these
10:40:02 accidents we have been having.
10:40:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need a motion.
10:40:04 >>GWEN MILLER: I move the resolution, Mr. Chairman.
10:40:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second the resolution.
10:40:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have a motion on the floor.
10:40:12 I guess we have to read it?
10:40:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if I can, I believe there
10:40:19 was -- Mr. Caetano did make a motion, and a question
10:40:24 as to whether or not that motion is in order, but just
10:40:27 so the record is clear --
10:40:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I wasn't here for the motion so I
10:40:37 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question.
10:40:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go ahead, Councilwoman Mulhern, then
10:40:42 councilman Dingfelder.
10:40:44 >>MARY MULHERN: Mr. Lee, or Mr. Spearman.
10:40:47 Probably Mr. Spearman actually.
10:40:49 What councilman Caetano -- and depending on what you
10:40:53 say, I might be willing to second his motion, that we
10:40:56 send it out to rebid.
10:41:00 Is that possible?
10:41:01 Can we do that at this point?
10:41:04 >> Can't do it.
10:41:05 Don't have the authority.
10:41:11 Don't have the authority.
10:41:13 (off microphone).
10:41:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That motion died for lack of a
10:41:45 The motion took place on the floor that was seconded,
10:41:47 that did supersede that.
10:41:49 That is the motion that is before council now.
10:41:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
10:41:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
10:42:02 Some people mate want to call this grandstanding.
10:42:05 I don't appreciate that.
10:42:09 What this is, is this is frivolous.
10:42:14 IRV, I have one more question for you, or Steve,
10:42:17 whichever engineer wants to get up here.
10:42:22 Ms. Miller insinuates that this is a mat oar of public
10:42:26 But this is a matter of saving lives.
10:42:29 Okay, saving lives.
10:42:31 The federal standards that we have used, okay, for
10:42:37 decades, okay, are simple metal signs with words
10:42:41 painted on them, that shine, okay, and they have
10:42:46 certain standards, and we have a sign shop with people
10:42:51 who know those standards.
10:42:55 Now we have echoed it to these back-lit illuminated
10:43:01 signs that are lovely.
10:43:02 Can any engineer stand in front of me and point to any
10:43:05 studies or anything else that say that these save
10:43:11 Because I don't want to vote against something that
10:43:14 saves lives.
10:43:15 But I don't think we have had any evidence or
10:43:16 testimony whatsoever in front of us it's in saving
10:43:23 If not we better tear down every single metal sign
10:43:26 that we have an illuminate all of them.
10:43:28 So, Steve, I think you hear where I am coming from.
10:43:34 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator, Public Works,
10:43:34 Utility Services. I don't have with me today any study
10:43:40 that has been done that says if you have a sign and
10:43:44 it's lighted then people will not die.
10:43:46 I do not have a report that says that.
10:43:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, let me just say, downtown have
10:43:57 it in front of you.
10:43:58 Have you ever seen or heard of one?
10:44:00 >>> I really would like to be able to finish,
10:44:03 Mr. Chairman.
10:44:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You can respond but let him finish.
10:44:06 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: We have a professional
10:44:09 transportation staff.
10:44:10 Our professional transportation staff from time to
10:44:15 time brings stuff to you like count down pegs, like
10:44:18 certain striping, like markings in the roadway that
10:44:22 are new, that the industry has determined, this is the
10:44:28 right way to go, these are things that save lives.
10:44:32 These are things that reduce crashes.
10:44:36 These intersections that we are recommending these
10:44:39 lights on, and larger signs, is so that people have
10:44:42 more time, so that they can see where they are going,
10:44:45 even at night or under adverse conditions.
10:44:51 This is what we are trying to do to keep you safe in
10:44:54 this environment.
10:44:55 But in a bigger sense even, council members, we bring
10:45:00 to you a budget each year, and we try to make that
10:45:05 budget respectful of the environment that we are in,
10:45:08 respectful of cost reductions.
10:45:11 This is an item that was approved by the council in
10:45:14 the budget a year ago.
10:45:15 We are about to bring to you next year's budget.
10:45:19 What I would like to suggest to you is rather than
10:45:22 getting down into the -- I know it your right, if
10:45:27 would you like to discuss that we will be glad to
10:45:29 discuss that, we will pursue reports, we will go get
10:45:32 information nationally if that's what your preference
10:45:34 But if you want to make meaningful cuts, again I would
10:45:38 suggest you get the budget.
10:45:40 When the budget -- and it's only coming in the next
10:45:43 couple of weeks comes to you, that would be the time
10:45:45 to scrutinize stuff.
10:45:46 Do we need to do this?
10:45:48 Do we not need to do that?
10:45:50 But again this is something that was in the budget.
10:45:52 It's not going to hurt any employees.
10:45:55 It's not going to change a thing.
10:45:57 It's not going to save money for next year.
10:46:01 It's a concept, and it is a safety issue that the
10:46:06 professional folks in the transportation department
10:46:08 are recommending.
10:46:09 It is a program that we have been working on, like
10:46:13 changing signs in school districts that have a special
10:46:16 Again there's a lot of transportation signage issues
10:46:21 that we changed over time.
10:46:23 We constantly evolve.
10:46:24 This is another one of those.
10:46:27 I'll be glad to do whatever the council directs us to
10:46:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder and councilman
10:46:33 Caetano, we need to move the resolution then.
10:46:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I respectfully submit if we don't
10:46:38 spend the money this year we can carry it over to next
10:46:41 Just because we have the money doesn't mean we have to
10:46:43 spend in the any given year and just because it was
10:46:45 budget add year ago, if we have an issue with it now,
10:46:48 because things are tighter, now than they were a year
10:46:50 ago, then we in our judgment, this council's judgment,
10:46:54 can and should do that, number one.
10:46:56 Number two is, I don't want to cross examine, but I
10:47:03 don't want you to insinuate that you have even seen
10:47:06 studies that say these lit signs are safer than the
10:47:08 other signs.
10:47:09 If you have seen them, item us about it.
10:47:11 If you haven't seen them, tell us about it, too.
10:47:13 But don't leave it dangling in the air because people
10:47:15 will jump on it and say, Mr. Daignault says we are
10:47:19 going to save lives with these things.
10:47:20 I don't know that you want to hang your engineering
10:47:23 credentials on that statement.
10:47:26 So, I mean, have you seen any studies that say that
10:47:28 these lit signs have saved lives or can save lives?
10:47:32 >>> I'll be glad to pursue such a study.
10:47:34 >> Well, we delayed this for a month already.
10:47:36 I am not looking to delay it anymore.
10:47:37 >>> We would ask --
10:47:40 >> Have you seen the studies or not?
10:47:41 >>> I have personally not looked for such a study.
10:47:45 I will be glad to go look for such a study.
10:47:47 >> So you haven't seen anything.
10:47:50 >>> I have not pursued, I have not looked for them.
10:47:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Call for the vote.
10:47:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
10:47:55 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I am not against
10:47:57 these lights.
10:47:57 I appreciate these lights.
10:47:58 We have them at Bruce B. Downs and I believe the
10:48:01 county probably put those there.
10:48:02 I doubt if the city did that.
10:48:04 And they are nice.
10:48:05 They are illuminated.
10:48:07 But the fact is that this bid was awarded over a year
10:48:11 ago, and it has a renewable clause.
10:48:14 All I want to do is reject this renewable clause and
10:48:18 rebid it.
10:48:19 I believe we can save 50 or $60,000.
10:48:24 So when Charlie retires we can get a bust for him on
10:48:30 one of these squares.
10:48:30 >>> I need a coffin, not a bust.
10:48:37 Yeah, everything changes in life.
10:48:38 We talk about school zone.
10:48:40 Talking about it used to be just a little sign said 15
10:48:44 miles an hour.
10:48:44 It took bifocals to see them.
10:48:47 Now you have these new illuminated lights that are
10:48:51 green and they tell you how fast you are coming so you
10:48:54 can slow down.
10:48:55 And that helps.
10:49:00 It reenergizes your cell, your brain to say slow down,
10:49:05 somebody is walking.
10:49:05 What about these intersections in a high traffic area?
10:49:09 They didn't used to have 12, 11, 10.
10:49:12 They just used to change.
10:49:13 Now, because of modernization, and I guarantee you, if
10:49:18 you do a study, when you look at it, these things
10:49:22 helped cause reduction in traffic accidents because
10:49:24 not only does it tell you, you know how many seconds
10:49:28 you have, and at the appropriate intersection you can
10:49:33 more or less tell if you are going without passing the
10:49:38 speed limit how you can get across.
10:49:39 The people that are walking across the street know
10:49:41 that they can cross because it tells you how many
10:49:45 seconds you have to wait.
10:49:47 I think when you la around the city, and the major
10:49:50 intersections that these signs are going into, these
10:49:53 are five to eight to ten times the size of the little
10:49:57 signs that you can't read.
10:49:58 And if I was going around and I didn't know my way
10:50:00 around Tampa, I could see the illuminated sign and
10:50:03 tell me where I am at.
10:50:05 And if you are slowing down you are liable to hit the
10:50:07 rear like I did the other day at Fowler Avenue, they
10:50:11 weren't looking for a sign, they were talking on the
10:50:13 cell phone, they ran into me.
10:50:15 So I can tell you everything that's going on.
10:50:19 It doesn't take a study.
10:50:20 It takes a little sense to understand that these
10:50:22 things are necessary to possibly save some lives.
10:50:26 There's in a guarantee in life.
10:50:28 I may go out in the Street today and be hit by a train
10:50:31 even though there's not a track there. But these
10:50:32 things are happening all over the world.
10:50:34 So it's something that needs to be addressed and I'm
10:50:38 ready for the resolution one way or the other.
10:50:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I apologize, I was at a doctor's
10:50:46 But you said if we reject it, rebid it, we would save
10:50:51 some money?
10:50:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Well, you weren't here in the
10:50:54 beginning, ma'am. This bid took place well over a
10:50:56 year ago and has a renewable clause in it.
10:50:59 And with today's economic conditions, foreclosures and
10:51:05 little notes that I wrote, I believe we can get a
10:51:07 better price.
10:51:08 I'm not against the lights.
10:51:09 I think they are great.
10:51:10 I appreciate them when I see them.
10:51:12 But I think we can do better.
10:51:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, a resolution and motion.
10:51:21 Let me just say we'll take the vote.
10:51:22 Originally if you go back this item was pulled on the
10:51:25 26th of June because of the intent of saving
10:51:28 $250,000 to put into the budget, into the general
10:51:32 revenue fund, to keep employees. That was the
10:51:36 discussion at that time.
10:51:38 And discovered this is CIT money and you cannot use
10:51:41 CIT for general operation or general fund money, only
10:51:45 for capital projects
10:51:51 There was a request for where these signs are going.
10:51:53 Staff provided us a listing for those locations.
10:51:56 So everything that we have asked for, they pretty much
10:52:00 are provided for.
10:52:01 I will tell you, I will tell you, one is, even if you
10:52:06 delay it, I doubt if you are going to get a cheaper
10:52:09 I mean, let's face it.
10:52:15 You sent out to 153 potential bidders and only two
10:52:19 people responded.
10:52:29 What I understand is this person has agreed to come
10:52:31 back with the same price without increasing, and more
10:52:33 than likely given my experience as.
10:52:37 There's always been in the past opportunity to raise
10:52:40 So they are not even raising their price.
10:52:42 But keep it at the same cost.
10:52:45 So I want to support the motion.
10:52:46 The motion has been moved by Councilwoman Miller, I
10:52:49 believe seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:52:51 All in favor of resolution signify by saying Aye.
10:52:55 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano and
10:52:59 Dingfelder voting no.
10:53:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, we have one last item then
10:53:05 we'll take our break, which is new business.
10:53:08 We'll take up new business.
10:53:09 Then at 1:30 we'll take up the public hearing on the
10:53:17 So on the new business.
10:53:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I am thrilled to ask
10:53:27 this council for commendation to the Hispanic
10:53:30 scientist of the year.
10:53:32 This year, this scientist is Dr. Lydia Villa-Komaroff,
10:53:43 a nuclear biologist, and she has done outstanding work
10:53:47 of Hispanic scientists and she will be honored at
10:53:54 7 p.m. at MOSI and I'm honored to be the presenter of
10:53:58 this commendation.
10:53:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:54:01 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:54:05 Councilman Dingfelder.
10:54:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:54:10 Two things.
10:54:15 Looking in the paper during our break -- and I saw
10:54:17 that the project in Westshore had changed.
10:54:25 Have you all been briefed on read about it or heard
10:54:27 about it?
10:54:28 I was kind of surprised to have to read about it in
10:54:30 the newspaper and not be briefed about it.
10:54:37 Basically, we have made a motion it's going to go to
10:54:42 the people and vote on it, and that's going to happen
10:54:46 this summer.
10:54:48 Apparently an administrative decision was made not to
10:54:51 do that and to send out a different type of letter.
10:54:55 I talked to Steve yesterday about this, and we agreed
10:55:01 that council needs a briefing on this issue, and on
10:55:06 canal issues in general, so we can get up to speed.
10:55:10 Steve tells me there's some good things happening.
10:55:12 So with that, I would like to make a motion for a
10:55:15 briefing from staff on any canal issues that are
10:55:24 I'm trying to look for an appropriate time for that.
10:55:26 Mr. Daignault indicates August would be appropriate
10:55:30 for them.
10:55:35 Do you want to do an August workshop or do it during a
10:55:37 regular council meeting?
10:55:42 I'm sure it wouldn't take that long.
10:55:45 Why don't we look -- is that a regular meeting August
10:55:50 28th, madam clerk?
10:55:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I have August 21st you currently
10:55:57 have one staff report scheduled on August 7th.
10:56:01 You currently have three staff reports -- actually at
10:56:07 On August 7th.
10:56:10 So the 7th or 21st.
10:56:14 >> Regular staff meeting August 21st.
10:56:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:56:19 (Motion carried)
10:56:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thanks, Steve.
10:56:22 The other thing I just wanted to clarify, not to kick
10:56:26 a dead horse, but I will, on the CIT versus non-CIT
10:56:34 issue, you are absolutely 100% correct, we couldn't
10:56:36 switch that $250,000 from CIT and put in the general
10:56:40 Doesn't work that way. Okay.
10:56:41 I agree with that.
10:56:43 You could take that $250,000 out of that part of the
10:56:48 C.I.T. if we agreed that perhaps those lit-up signs
10:56:50 were, you know, might be frivolous and put it into
10:56:53 parks, okay, because our parks are suffering horribly
10:56:57 from a deficiency in funding, in capital funding.
10:57:02 Anyway, that vote has been taken.
10:57:03 We can move on.
10:57:04 But I agree with you, C.I.T. has to stay in C.I.T.
10:57:08 So the next time we look at C.I.T. budget maybe we
10:57:12 need to look a little tighter and see if some of these
10:57:14 items are there, maybe there's some other priorities
10:57:17 that are stronger.
10:57:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Nothing.
10:57:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern?
10:57:25 Councilman Caetano?
10:57:27 >>MARY MULHERN: I think you all received a memo from
10:57:32 me about the budget advisory, citizens budget advisory
10:57:37 Sal Territo has revised the resolution that we found
10:57:43 from the 70s, establishing one.
10:57:47 And we will be -- that will be on the agenda on the
10:57:51 31st, which is two weeks from now, our next
10:57:54 regular meeting.
10:57:55 And I would like to encourage everyone, if you haven't
10:57:59 asked someone or appointed someone to be on this
10:58:01 committee for you, to do so by next week, if we want
10:58:06 their names to be included in the resolution at that
10:58:11 time, you will need to have it in by then, that date,
10:58:16 by next week.
10:58:18 We want to encourage everyone to do that.
10:58:20 Thank you.
10:58:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: One item I was requested by Cindy
10:58:26 Miller to have a presentation on TPEA at our workshop
10:58:29 on July 24th at 10 a.m.
10:58:32 So I would like to ask that we set that.
10:58:35 >> So moved.
10:58:36 >> Second.
10:58:37 (Motion carried).
10:58:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then one last thing in response to
10:58:41 councilman Dingfelder.
10:58:44 I'm assuming that we are operating under the same
10:58:46 process, under the C.I.T. in order to change anything.
10:58:51 One, to have a public hearing.
10:58:54 Is that right?
10:58:54 You all have public hearing?
10:58:56 >> Yes.
10:58:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any item that you have a public
10:59:00 hearing and public comment.
10:59:01 Secondly, if you decide to change that, you have to go
10:59:04 back and have another public hearing on the item.
10:59:08 Is that right?
10:59:10 So anything that was changed, wants the public input
10:59:14 on, you vote on and it became a budgeted item.
10:59:17 If you want to change that C.I.T. project it's my
10:59:19 understanding you had to take it back to have a
10:59:21 rehearing for the public.
10:59:23 So we want to look at that.
10:59:26 At least at the county that's what we had to do.
10:59:29 If there was anything that's going to change, once you
10:59:31 had a public hearing, public input, for placement into
10:59:35 the budget, you want to take it out and shift it and
10:59:37 move it somewhere else, that you had oh to go back and
10:59:41 have a public hearing on that.
10:59:42 You may want to verify that in response to councilman
10:59:45 Dingfelder's concern on the issue.
10:59:46 I don't think you can just arbitrarily move it around.
10:59:49 All right.
10:59:50 With that being said, we'll see you at 1:30.
10:59:52 We stand in recess until 1:30.
The preceding represents an unedited version of
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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, July 17, 2008
The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.
13:33:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called back to
13:34:25 Roll call.
13:34:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
13:34:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:34:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
13:34:30 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
13:34:34 >>GWEN MILLER: We go now to item number 83.
13:34:47 If there's anyone in the public that wants to speak on
13:34:49 these items, please stand and raise your right hand.
13:34:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 83 or 84, please.
13:34:54 (Oath administered by Clerk).
13:34:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe there are items that need
13:35:00 to be received and filed.
13:35:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Need a motion to receive and file.
13:35:06 >> So moved.
13:35:07 >> Second.
13:35:07 (Motion carried).
13:35:08 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
13:35:14 Case V 08-28, location 1718 west Main Street.
13:35:18 They are requesting a special use for alcoholic
13:35:20 beverage sales.
13:35:25 They are requesting 2(APS), package sales of beer and
13:35:30 In association with a commercial intensive zoning
13:35:34 There is 348 square feet.
13:35:37 Restaurant with no seating.
13:35:40 It is a walk-up food service so the couples will be
13:35:45 off premises.
13:35:55 I'll show you on the aerial.
13:36:01 There's a long building.
13:36:22 There was or will be a laundry rah mat on the side of
13:36:33 the building.
13:36:34 Then as it turns, then this is the front part of the
13:36:37 building along here.
13:36:46 Definitions for small alcoholic beverage sales,
13:36:49 classification 2(APS).
13:36:51 This case falls under a new provision, special use,
13:36:56 section 27-272, the requirements specified
13:36:59 requirements for this particular use B-1 being a
13:37:02 requirement that meets the parking at the current
13:37:05 code, and the distance separation requirement.
13:37:07 If you look at page 1, waivers 2 through 4 are the
13:37:10 distance separation waivers.
13:37:12 Waiver number 1 is a reduction of parking 13 space,
13:37:16 seven spaces.
13:37:17 It has been reviewed by transportation, solid waste,
13:37:21 as well as the zoning office, and we all found it
13:37:24 consistent with the regulations.
13:37:26 Noted on page 3 the exact locations that are within
13:37:29 1,000 feet.
13:37:30 And then page 4 and 5, you will note the general
13:37:33 standards for special uses which you must review and
13:37:38 must consider in making your decision.
13:37:39 Staff has no objections.
13:37:43 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
13:37:46 City of Tampa police department has no objections to
13:37:49 the wet zoning.
13:37:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
13:37:53 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I'm here on behalf of Anthony
13:37:58 Blackmon, the petitioner in this project.
13:38:00 We spent some time going over the neighborhood.
13:38:02 Irv to the establishment a few times.
13:38:04 Talked to some of the neighbors and some of the other
13:38:06 businesses and there are no objections to this.
13:38:08 We respectfully request approval.
13:38:11 As you know, this is a new process that we go through,
13:38:16 and I don't want to go through all of that but there
13:38:18 are issues regarding the fact this is a stand-up
13:38:24 restaurant, there's a hair salon there, a little
13:38:26 grocery store being established.
13:38:29 This will be the first new establishment for groceries
13:38:32 since 1964.
13:38:35 So they are putting money into this building.
13:38:40 About 1600 square feet total.
13:38:42 We are respectfully requesting approval.
13:38:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Does anyone in the public want to speak
13:38:45 on item 83?
13:38:47 If you would like to speak, you may come up and speak.
13:38:56 >> Ross Puleo, I own the corner of the building, 702
13:39:03 Main Street.
13:39:06 I primarily pose this because it's right across the
13:39:10 street from a school.
13:39:12 The people that lease the building from me now have a
13:39:15 beer and wine license, but they had to move in the mid
13:39:23 sixties because built on the south side of Main
13:39:30 And they had -- that's the only reason they got the
13:39:37 license for beer and wine.
13:39:39 And I have objections primarily because of the school
13:39:43 right across the street.
13:39:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
13:39:46 Would anyone else like to speak?
13:39:49 Petitioner, do you want to say anything in rebuttal?
13:39:53 >>STEVE MICHELINI: No.
13:39:55 Just someone else has an alcoholic beverage license,
13:39:58 we may be competing with them.
13:40:00 I think all things being fair with the establishment,
13:40:03 I want to have the same opportunity other groceries
13:40:06 would have in the area.
13:40:07 I think that you also may have received a letter of
13:40:09 support from the neighborhood association regarding
13:40:13 And obviously notified everyone in the area.
13:40:17 And the only ones coming forward already have a
13:40:21 grocery store.
13:40:22 We are respectfully requesting this.
13:40:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to ask our policeman
13:40:35 if you have any concerns about granting a license like
13:40:38 this across the street from a school.
13:40:40 I just think that the children of an elementary school
13:40:45 wouldn't be asking someone older to buy liquor for
13:40:48 >>> There's always a concern.
13:40:53 That's why we have the waiver process.
13:41:02 >>GWEN MILLER: They cannot come up to go across that
13:41:11 Ms. Mulhern.
13:41:13 >>MARY MULHERN: Currently the former business here,
13:41:18 the beauty salon, and had a little take-out
13:41:23 >>STEVE MICHELINI: It will continue.
13:41:24 The beauty salon continues.
13:41:26 Restaurant continues.
13:41:26 And the grocery store is in addition.
13:41:28 >>MARY MULHERN: And where is the grocery store going
13:41:31 to be?
13:41:32 >>> It's in the rear portion of the building.
13:41:34 About the rear one third of the building.
13:41:37 >> That's a lot of businesses in one little --
13:41:40 >>STEVE MICHELINI: You have to understand that this
13:41:42 particular establishment caters to more of a working
13:41:45 class clientele, and it's kind of interesting that I
13:41:50 went around talking to different people.
13:41:52 They said, oh, yeah, we go over there and we buy
13:41:54 different things and it's the only place that we can
13:41:56 get a chicken sandwich for two dollars.
13:41:59 So it has a budget-based menu that really caters to a
13:42:04 working class clientele, much different than what we
13:42:08 see in other parts of Tampa.
13:42:11 >>MARY MULHERN: The other thing, I don't see that
13:42:13 letter of support.
13:42:15 You might want to give a copy of it.
13:42:17 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I don't have it with me, but I
13:42:20 assure you that it did come in.
13:42:25 >>GWEN MILLER: I had one.
13:42:29 >> Did you see it? Because there is one from the old
13:42:31 West Tampa association and some residents support it.
13:42:34 She said however the majority of residents oppose the
13:42:39 >>STEVE MICHELINI: It's a relatively small
13:42:41 Like I said, the building is basically broken up into
13:42:45 And so you have about 400, 500, 600 hundred square
13:42:50 feet being dedicated to the grocery store, and the
13:42:53 remainder remains the beauty salon and the restaurant.
13:42:57 Again, this is all take-out.
13:43:01 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, it would help me if somebody has
13:43:03 a copy of that letter.
13:43:11 The clerk should have it, too.
13:43:35 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I don't have it.
13:43:37 This is in the old West Tampa --
13:43:49 >>MARY MULHERN: This is the first time wet zoning or
13:43:53 >>> This has never had a wet zoning before.
13:43:55 This is a new establishment.
13:43:57 It's a grocery store.
13:43:58 And typically you don't have new grocery stores
13:44:00 opening up in the poor areas.
13:44:02 And I guess the point that was being made was these
13:44:05 gentlemen had put their money together and decided
13:44:07 they were going to try to put together a small grocery
13:44:09 store, and in order to be competitive with the other
13:44:12 grocery stores, they have to have the ability to sell
13:44:15 beer and wine.
13:44:16 Otherwise, no one would be going there.
13:44:18 They would be going to the other places.
13:44:20 So the other establishments have beer and wine.
13:44:22 This one does not.
13:44:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council?
13:44:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
13:44:31 Ten years ago I worked in a redevelopment project in
13:44:33 West Tampa, and asked people what they needed, and
13:44:36 they said we need a bank, we need a variety of things.
13:44:39 They definitely mentioned a grocery store, they
13:44:43 definitely didn't mention more beer and alcohol sales.
13:44:46 But I understand that's supposed to offset the other
13:44:53 Is this petitioner asking for the entire building to
13:44:55 be rezoned to allow beer and alcohol sales?
13:44:58 My concern is it going to change from being a grocery
13:45:02 store with package sales to a bar which the
13:45:05 neighborhood I know doesn't need another bar.
13:45:08 >>> The only way I know to address that is first to
13:45:11 commit on the record it's a package store and second
13:45:16 perhaps the condition approval on the fact of not
13:45:19 become a principal use as a package store, that it
13:45:22 remain incidental as a grocery store.
13:45:25 >> That's an excellent suggestion.
13:45:27 >>> And those two things will offer the protection you
13:45:29 are asking for.
13:45:30 >> That is an excellent suggestion.
13:45:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other questions?
13:45:34 >>> And I am committing on the record that it's
13:45:35 incidental to the principal uses, the restaurant and
13:45:41 the grocery store.
13:45:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
13:45:45 >> Second.
13:45:46 (Motion carried)
13:46:00 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Mulhern voting
13:46:02 >> That was just to close the public hearing.
13:46:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, that was just to close?
13:46:08 >> We. Voted on the ordinance yet.
13:46:10 I would like to move this ordinance including the
13:46:11 provision stated by the petitioner that the package
13:46:14 sales will be incidental to the grocery, and --
13:46:25 >>> May I ask Mrs. Kert whether that should be
13:46:28 included within the body of the ordinance, of the
13:46:33 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes, then I will have to revise that.
13:46:36 >> Could you bring that back to or evening meeting
13:46:38 tonight at six?
13:46:39 >>> Yes.
13:46:40 >> Second 89 we have a motion that it will be back at
13:46:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Including the stated commitment by
13:46:48 the petitioner.
13:46:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
13:46:51 We need to open item number 84.
13:46:55 >>> Bring it back to six.
13:46:57 Second to bring it back at six.
13:46:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Get the new ordinance at 6 p.m.
13:47:01 We'll read it then.
13:47:02 With the conditions that are in there as stated by the
13:47:05 >>> I think you need to make that in a motion.
13:47:09 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of that motion say Aye.
13:47:11 Opposed, Nay.
13:47:11 (Motion carried). We need to open item 84.
13:47:16 >> So moved.
13:47:17 >> Second.
13:47:17 (Motion carried)
13:47:30 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
13:47:38 Case V 08-36, 8210 Parkedge Drive, requesting a small
13:47:43 venue, alcoholic beverage permit for a 2(APS).
13:47:46 This is for consumption off premises only in
13:47:53 conjunction with a Circle K, gas station convenience
13:47:57 store located within the Hidden River PDA.
13:48:00 This is an existing convenience store.
13:48:02 It was approved by City Council one year ago as a
13:48:05 conditional wet zoning.
13:48:06 And that will lapse actually in August of 2008.
13:48:11 It was approved under ordinance 2007-176, so they are
13:48:15 back for renewal under the new process as a special
13:48:18 Just to remind you, this is Parkedge Drive. This is
13:48:22 the Circle K here.
13:48:28 Keep going down Fletcher, you eventually hit 275.
13:48:36 Or I-75. This is the store.
13:48:48 There are two waivers listed on page 1 under the
13:48:50 special use criteria for the distance separations for
13:48:53 100 feet for residential uses and zero feet for
13:48:56 institutional uses.
13:48:57 This is the Circle K that was adjacent to the park
13:49:03 facility from a year ago.
13:49:05 Page two the definitions for 2(APS) and small alcohol
13:49:08 venue sales.
13:49:09 They are required to meet parking provisions under
13:49:11 section 272-B-1.
13:49:13 There are no waivers for parking.
13:49:15 They do meet the standards of today's code.
13:49:17 And then the general standards for you to consider in
13:49:20 granting or denying the special use on page 3, 4 and
13:49:25 Staff has no objections.
13:49:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Was this before us not too long
13:49:32 >>CATHERINE COYLE: A year ago.
13:49:34 Eleven months technically.
13:49:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Officer Miller?
13:49:40 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
13:49:43 Police department has no objections to this wet
13:49:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
13:49:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: May I ask one thing?
13:49:49 I would like to ask the legal department for clarity.
13:49:52 These things -- and I have nothing for or against
13:49:53 anyone here -- but I think it states in the record the
13:49:56 law that it's 12 months, a year.
13:50:00 If we do it before the year, are we in any way
13:50:03 violating the intent of the ordinance?
13:50:06 >>> No.
13:50:08 They are within the time frame both before --
13:50:11 >> I wanted to make sure.
13:50:13 >>REBECCA KERT: Okay.
13:50:14 >>MARY MULHERN: I think this is a question for you.
13:50:16 I'm not sure.
13:50:17 I'm remembering this now, and the reason we made it
13:50:20 conditional, I think, was because of the testimony of
13:50:22 the park ranger.
13:50:24 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The park ranger, right.
13:50:26 >> Have we heard anything from him, contacted him?
13:50:32 >>> I have sent notices to them, yes.
13:50:34 In fact, council member --
13:50:38 >> Put your name on the record.
13:50:39 >>> Richard Davis, 220 east Madison street, here today
13:50:42 on behalf of Circle K.
13:50:45 I do have a full scale presentation.
13:50:47 However, I will mention to you that last year we sent
13:50:49 out 156 notices.
13:50:52 This year we sent out 173 and both Hillsborough County
13:50:56 generally and the Parks Department received notices.
13:51:00 >>MARY MULHERN: And officer Miller, Tampa police --
13:51:06 >>> No objections.
13:51:08 >> You haven't had complaints.
13:51:09 >>> No new occurrences within that year.
13:51:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
13:51:13 wants to speak on item 84?
13:51:14 Anyone to speak on item 84?
13:51:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
13:51:19 >> Second.
13:51:19 (Motion carried).
13:51:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance approving a
13:51:24 special use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales
13:51:29 small venue and making legal the sale of beverages
13:51:32 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not
13:51:35 more than 14% by weight of wines regardless of
13:51:39 alcohol, content beer and wine, 2(APS) in sealed
13:51:44 containers for consumption off premises only or at
13:51:47 from certain lot, plot or tract of land located at
13:51:50 8210 Parkedge drive Tampa, Florida and more
13:51:53 particularly described in section 2 therefore
13:51:55 approving waivers set forth therein waiving certain
13:51:58 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
13:52:01 findings providing for repeal of all ordinances in
13:52:04 conflict providing an effective date.
13:52:05 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
13:52:07 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
13:52:08 Opposed, Nay.
13:52:10 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and Scott
13:52:12 being absent at vote.
13:52:14 The second reading of the ordinance will be held July
13:52:17 31st at 9:30 a.m.
13:52:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone else to come before
13:52:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Madam Chairman.
13:52:27 This is a piece of new business.
13:52:29 It's a request I got from a constituent that deals
13:52:32 with human trafficking, which I guess I'm -- I have
13:52:37 come to realize is a problem nationally,
13:52:39 internationally, and even in Tampa, Florida, and the
13:52:44 constituent asked if we could take a look at this.
13:52:49 Currently we are addressing these issues, addressed by
13:52:55 any ordinance, and if not if we would consider it.
13:53:00 I don't know the depth of this.
13:53:02 I haven't researched this.
13:53:04 On the face it seems that of course we are against
13:53:07 human trafficking, and we certainly don't want to --
13:53:12 we want to be as strong in that as we possibly can in
13:53:15 our community.
13:53:16 So what I would like to do is ask if we could send a
13:53:19 copy of this to the legal department and to the police
13:53:22 department and see if they think that adopting the
13:53:24 ordinance like this would strengthen the City of
13:53:27 Tampa's stance against human trafficking.
13:53:32 >> Second.
13:53:35 (Motion carried).
13:53:35 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm not opposed.
13:53:36 I said Aye.
13:53:38 But I just want it stated, there was a front page
13:53:41 story today about someone, a woman had signed a
13:53:45 contract to be a slave.
13:53:47 And this was locally.
13:53:50 >> They refused to testify.
13:53:51 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, ended up getting off pretty
13:54:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
13:54:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: One item. There was a discussion
13:54:07 about the CIT money.
13:54:09 I looked at the statutes.
13:54:10 I understand under the local agreement.
13:54:12 I'm not satisfied I have a complete answer so I would
13:54:14 like to bring that back this evening to inform the
13:54:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
13:54:19 We need to receive and file.
13:54:27 I have a motion and second.
13:54:28 (Motion carried)
13:54:30 We are adjourned until 5:30.
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