TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, July 17, 2008
5:30 p.m. Session
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17:38:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
17:38:27 We'll have roll call.
17:38:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
17:38:34 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
17:38:35 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
17:38:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
17:38:38 Thank you.
17:38:38 Good evening.
17:38:39 And we will have a 5:30 public hearing.
17:38:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open.
17:38:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A second?
17:38:51 All in favor let it be known by Aye.
17:38:57 Mr. Stefan is going to come and turn it over to him at
17:39:00 this time.
17:39:02 >>JIM STEFAN: Budget officer.
17:39:04 I have a handout for council.
17:39:09 I just have a very brief PowerPoint presentation to go
17:39:18 over, and then we can open it up to the public.
17:39:25 While I keep the calendar of events up there I just
17:39:28 want to give you a brief overview of where we have
17:39:30 Over the past five years, the city has made some major
17:39:33 changes in how we go through the process of allocating
17:39:38 the federal dollars.
17:39:42 We, about five years ago, did a southeast United
17:39:45 States survey of how entities, small and large, didn't
17:39:49 the money.
17:39:50 And we developed an RFP process that we took the good
17:39:57 pieces from all of the cities that we surveyed, and
17:40:00 over the last couple of years we tweaked that survey,
17:40:04 and the RFP, and we have come up with a document that
17:40:08 is a fairly good representation of fairly good
17:40:11 document in which to go out to the public service
17:40:15 entities and ask them to submit requests to the city.
17:40:20 In addition to the RFP, in the RFP, we disclose the
17:40:25 calendar, we disclose the ranking system, we disclose
17:40:28 everything in the RFP.
17:40:29 So whoever gets one knows the timetable in which we
17:40:32 are going to review this stuff, and criteria which we
17:40:35 are using to actually score it.
17:40:39 And over the past five years, we have also held
17:40:42 workshops on helping people to actually fill out the
17:40:47 So a lot of people come back to us and said, the
17:40:50 process that we are using now is very good, and they
17:40:53 do appreciate it, and unbiased representation of how
17:41:00 to sort of allocate the dollars.
17:41:03 And each year we continue to take responses from
17:41:07 council, from the citizens, as well as the
17:41:11 publications as to how to improve the processes.
17:41:16 We have also worked very closely with the advisory
17:41:18 board, and we have tried to work more closely than we
17:41:21 had in the past, and hopefully we are successful in
17:41:24 At least I believe we are.
17:41:26 And when they get up, they'll be able to give you
17:41:29 their view of it.
17:41:30 We have also helped streamline some of the processes
17:41:33 that the advisory committee goes through, so we take
17:41:37 the information from them, and we try to -- if there's
17:41:41 any word processing involved, we try to do that.
17:41:44 We try to help to administer their program a little
17:41:48 bit more efficient for them.
17:41:49 So hopefully, we are helping also from their
17:41:55 perspective of how we go on with the program.
17:41:58 The next slide basically talks about all the money
17:42:01 that we are talking about, when we are having this
17:42:04 public hearing tonight, which is a about $11 million
17:42:08 and it basically comes from the community development
17:42:10 block grant program, program income, and program
17:42:13 dollars, the home program, the American dreams down
17:42:16 payment program, emergency shelter grant, and has
17:42:21 opportunities for persons with aids so it's about an
17:42:24 $11.8 million program.
17:42:26 And here is an indication of the categories in which
17:42:31 the dollars are allocated.
17:42:41 And if you recall last month we provided council as
17:42:44 well as citizens advisory committee responses to the
17:42:48 needs and recommendations that the different advisory
17:42:53 groups have come up with, and we mailed them
17:42:58 preliminary responses last month.
17:43:00 And as we go through the budget, in November,
17:43:04 departments will again respond to the advisory groups
17:43:08 and tell them what projects have already been
17:43:10 completed, which ones are in the budget, that they are
17:43:14 going to be working on and expected dates the things
17:43:17 to be done or if there's a problem getting the project
17:43:20 allocated dollars, they'll inform them at that point
17:43:23 in time.
17:43:23 So there will be an update to that in the late
17:43:26 November time frame.
17:43:28 We also have a bunch of city staff here tonight to
17:43:32 listen to any comments that counsel or the public
17:43:35 gives so that we'll be able to react to it.
17:43:38 If there's no questions of me, I'd like to turn the
17:43:41 podium over to Frank RODER, the chairman of the
17:43:47 advisory committee.
17:43:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
17:43:52 >> My name is Frank Roder, 908 east Louisiana Avenue
17:43:57 in southeast Seminole Heights.
17:43:59 Thank you for giving us the opportunity to speak
17:44:02 When I presented our request back in March, I was
17:44:05 congratulated basically speaking outside the box to
17:44:08 address the needs of the homeless coalition, to come
17:44:12 up with some unique requests they had.
17:44:16 We were disappointed by the response from the city
17:44:18 because basically the city told them to go through the
17:44:20 RFP process.
17:44:21 And the RFP process has a place.
17:44:24 But I also think the needs of the homeless is
17:44:29 something we need to address city-wide. This is a
17:44:31 chance for the city to think outside the box as well
17:44:34 and not burden the homeless coalition with more
17:44:38 paperwork and regulations.
17:44:40 The outreach center, homeless coalition submitted an
17:44:44 RFP and we are asking you to please support this
17:44:46 effort to create a much needed facility for our
17:44:49 homeless. This would be a one-shop place for the
17:44:52 homeless to get everything they need.
17:44:53 Currently they have to go from place to place to place
17:44:56 and this would be a one shop center.
17:44:57 Please help them develop public-private partnerships
17:45:01 in this endeavor.
17:45:02 Problem with the homeless in Tampa is too big to be
17:45:04 solved just by the homeless coalition alone, and they
17:45:08 do not need to be bogged down by red tape and long
17:45:11 drawn-out procedures to receive CBD funding.
17:45:14 Second request the coalition had was for gay, lesbian,
17:45:20 transgendered youth.
17:45:23 It's a major concern nationwide.
17:45:25 National run away switchboard has been addressing the
17:45:28 needs of the run away youth since 1974 and helped GLBT
17:45:33 youth for homeless and I would like to give this to
17:45:35 members of council.
17:45:37 This specifically addresses the needs of GLBT youth
17:45:45 and their unique needs.
17:45:47 As an educator, I attended the National Education
17:45:50 Association and American federation of teachers
17:45:52 conventions in the last two weeks.
17:45:54 At both of these conventions the homeless GLBT youth
17:45:58 was discussed.
17:45:59 And in fact at the next convention both the NEA and
17:46:02 AFT will have a new business item or resolution
17:46:04 addressing the needs of homeless GLBT youth.
17:46:08 This is really a chance for Tampa to take a leadership
17:46:10 role in the nation.
17:46:12 Help the homeless coalition address the needs of these
17:46:17 Do not bog the coalition down in paperwork.
17:46:22 Help them help those who are often forgotten.
17:46:25 Third thing the coalition asked for was youth aging
17:46:27 out of foster care.
17:46:29 Currently the homeless coalition is seeking funds in
17:46:34 excess of $262,000 to acquire property to develop
17:46:34 housing for Youth coming out of foster care.
17:46:38 I am asking you to help the homeless coalition in that
17:46:42 That's what the homeless coalition needs.
17:46:44 Another thing we requested was a partnership that the
17:46:46 Tampa Police Department and neighborhood community
17:46:49 relations department.
17:46:50 And I'm pleased to say that they have had party in the
17:46:54 park, the first one was held on June 13th, MLK rec
17:47:00 There is going to be another one scheduled for August
17:47:03 1st at the NFL center in East Tampa.
17:47:07 There's a lot of ongoing collaboration between the
17:47:10 neighborhood community relations department and Tampa
17:47:12 Police Department.
17:47:13 It such a good program that MOSI and Busch Gardens are
17:47:17 involved as well.
17:47:18 But these parties cost money.
17:47:20 I talked to Shannon Edge and she's requesting
17:47:22 basically $2,000 for each police depth district to
17:47:25 help in the effort to notify residents and hold these
17:47:28 great community outreach programs.
17:47:30 These events bring people together, they cross racial
17:47:32 and ethnic lines, bring together different ages in a
17:47:35 unifying event.
17:47:35 This is an example of something that will be
17:47:38 remembered by our youth for the rest of their lives.
17:47:41 So it's up and going.
17:47:42 We already had one party.
17:47:44 Second one is coming up real quick.
17:47:45 We already had a third one and that will be in Sulphur
17:47:48 Springs probably in the fall.
17:47:50 Also we are asking for city-wide recycling campaign
17:47:53 and the solid waste department and neighborhood
17:47:56 relations department are working together in this
17:47:58 effort on organizing the communication educational
17:48:01 effort to get the word out.
17:48:04 And I believe it's going to be successful.
17:48:07 The Tampa recycling director is a true asset to the
17:48:11 city and determined to turn this city green.
17:48:13 She has all kinds of ideas.
17:48:15 Shannon Edge set the meeting, that I met with
17:48:18 Hillsborough County school board chair candy Olson,
17:48:20 and I'm pleased to announce that Hillsborough County
17:48:22 public schools are going to begin a recycling effort
17:48:25 next year.
17:48:26 They are going to start recycling newspaper as a
17:48:28 And office paper.
17:48:30 Unfortunately, they are still throwing away 150,000
17:48:33 Styrofoam trays per day.
17:48:36 But at least Hillsborough County schools have started.
17:48:39 The anti-litter campaign that we talked about, Jim
17:48:42 Pickney is determined to make Tampa the cleanest city
17:48:45 in America.
17:48:46 That's his goal and he's working on it.
17:48:49 We requested and asking to please continue to help him
17:48:51 in his request for additional trash receptacles
17:48:54 throughout the city, a 13-yard rear packer and
17:48:56 anti-littering campaign in the 2009 budget.
17:48:59 He is bound and determined to make it happen and I
17:49:01 think you can push him along in that effort.
17:49:04 That's basically all we have for a city-wide request.
17:49:07 At this time I would like to turn it over to anybody
17:49:09 who has wants to address the city-wide needs.
17:49:14 >>> My name is Lesa Weikel, community relations
17:49:19 manager of the homeless coalition of Hillsborough
17:49:25 On behalf of our homeless neighbors, I want to thank
17:49:26 the council for caring about their needs.
17:49:29 Your support of homeless and housing programs helps
17:49:32 men, women and children with a safe place to sleep
17:49:36 The coalition is honored that our proposed programs,
17:49:40 homeless outreach and youth out of foster care,
17:49:44 housing, everybody recommended for CDBG and home
17:49:46 funding, and for the other dozen homeless service
17:49:49 programs that are included in that recommendation.
17:49:52 We want to ask for your support in that funding for
17:49:56 our two programs, for homeless outreach, which begins
17:49:59 the process of the one-stop center that Frank spoke
17:50:02 of, and also the youth aging out of foster care, we
17:50:06 have approximately 100 youth aging out of foster care
17:50:09 every year in the City of Tampa, and we appreciate
17:50:11 your support in the help for homeless neighbors.
17:50:16 Thank you.
17:50:18 >>> I didn't actually have recommendations for my
17:50:27 neighborhood and I haven't been as involved as I would
17:50:29 like to be but I do want to add that Frank Roder has
17:50:32 done a magnificent job with this committee and pleas
17:50:36 give great creed tones everything he has to say.
17:50:39 One item that he mentioned was party in the park, that
17:50:42 Shannon Edge is asking for support for.
17:50:43 It a very small amount of money it has a tremendous
17:50:46 and deep impact.
17:50:48 I actually have worked parties in the park as a
17:50:51 And if you have never been to one, I really, really
17:50:54 strongly encourage you to attend, for a very small
17:50:58 amount of money with a lot of volunteer assistance,
17:51:01 this event has such a tremendous impact on so many
17:51:04 youth that can be life-long and enduring.
17:51:08 So please, please give serious consideration to
17:51:11 supporting that very minor request.
17:51:13 Thank you.
17:51:15 Ellen -- may Ellen Durst, 4000 bay villa Avenue.
17:51:25 >> Okay.
17:51:25 We would also like to go over neighborhood requests
17:51:28 and I'm asking anybody who would like to speak about a
17:51:30 particular neighborhood request to come forward at
17:51:31 this time.
17:51:33 I could talk about area 3, southeast Seminole Heights.
17:51:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Who is running this?
17:51:47 I just wanted to tell you real quick, Frank.
17:51:50 Do you have a document, or have you already provided
17:51:53 us with a document that lists those preliminary things
17:51:55 that you were speaking to?
17:51:59 >>> Yes.
17:52:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Not the city document.
17:52:03 Your additional requests, what have you.
17:52:05 Is that on there?
17:52:06 >> Yes.
17:52:07 It should be as part of this packet.
17:52:10 As part of that statement.
17:52:12 I am going to direct these to southeast Seminole
17:52:15 One of the things we requested was a building to
17:52:17 replace the Kaplan Malone center located at Giddens at
17:52:22 12th and Giddens, southeast Seminole Heights.
17:52:25 The city responded to fund the community center, but
17:52:28 never said when it would happen.
17:52:31 And kind of left us out.
17:52:33 If you have ever been to one of our meetings, you know
17:52:35 we need it now.
17:52:36 Other night we had code enforcement there, and 35
17:52:43 people but no place to put them and the building
17:52:45 itself is in very poor condition.
17:52:47 It's old.
17:52:48 It's cramped.
17:52:48 And very uninviting.
17:52:50 When I go to events in other city parks I'm always
17:52:53 envious because our active neighborhood deserves
17:52:59 On a sad note we are still waiting for the interactive
17:53:01 water fountain that was supposed to be put in Giddens
17:53:04 park over five years ago.
17:53:05 We are still waiting for it to be completed.
17:53:07 It was supposed to be finished within the next month.
17:53:09 However, found out just the other day that there's now
17:53:12 another delay.
17:53:13 And the city should investigate this process.
17:53:15 Obviously it's not very cost effective to drag it out
17:53:18 over five years, and it's not really fair to our
17:53:21 We also requested traffic control along 12th Street.
17:53:24 And traffic calming continues to be an issue to our
17:53:26 neighbors and they call me.
17:53:29 Once again the city responded.
17:53:31 There was no documented speeding concerns along 12th
17:53:34 One of the things we requested is a 4 way stop sign at
17:53:38 12th and McBerry but it was denied.
17:53:41 It did not meet the criteria for a four way stop sign.
17:53:45 There's only been three car crashes there in the last
17:53:47 two years.
17:53:48 However there's been many close calls.
17:53:50 There's a bus stop on that corner.
17:53:51 Kids are unloaded all the time.
17:53:54 We had several near accidents.
17:53:56 My neighbors continue to call me complaining and I
17:53:58 will continue this request every year.
17:54:02 Also, similar situation on Chelsea.
17:54:05 Chelsea street between 15th and Nebraska.
17:54:14 The traffic has decreased at least in the studies and
17:54:18 averaging 29, 30 miles per hour.
17:54:20 However, speeding on Chelsea continues to be a concern
17:54:22 to my neighbors and they continue to request me to
17:54:24 bring it forward.
17:54:27 We also asked for increased police patrols in
17:54:29 southeast Seminole Heights and I'm pleased to say that
17:54:32 major Honeywell district 3 came to our meeting last
17:54:35 Tuesday night, the head of our neighborhood watch
17:54:37 patrol meets with him regularly.
17:54:38 He's on our neighborhood e-mail list.
17:54:40 Our neighborhood has worked closely with TPD and TPD
17:54:43 has been very responsive to our needs and we are very
17:54:45 pleased to be working so closely with TPD.
17:54:48 So I think that's a win-win.
17:54:49 If anybody else has any requests for CDBG funding,
17:54:54 please come to the microphone at this time.
17:54:57 I think we did it in record time this time.
17:55:02 Thank you.
17:55:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
17:55:04 Does anyone else want to address council before we
17:55:06 close the public hearing?
17:55:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
17:55:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Wait.
17:55:12 I just had a question for Mr. Stefan.
17:55:14 I was listening in the back and I heard the concerns
17:55:19 The Kaplan Malone center, we received a letter from
17:55:24 Do we have any funding pledged to improve that
17:55:29 It's a place the south Seminole Heights group meets,
17:55:33 and it's very, very small, and it's not in good shape,
17:55:37 and it was part of their request.
17:55:39 And I wondered if we had addressed that.
17:55:42 I think Mr. Roder might -- can you speak to that?
17:55:47 Do you know what the status is?
17:55:54 >>> The Kaplan Malone center actually served as a
17:55:58 kindergarten for many years, closed in the late 60s
17:56:02 and then became part of Parks Department.
17:56:08 We requested to use it and basically painted it, it's
17:56:10 now white.
17:56:11 Fact is it's very, very small.
17:56:14 City of Tampa operates programs there, but can only
17:56:18 put like 25 kids in there. The place is packed and we
17:56:21 have a lot more kids in our neighborhood that are
17:56:23 trying to get into the facility.
17:56:25 It's very small.
17:56:26 And doesn't meet the parks association or our
17:56:30 Very small.
17:56:33 Maybe a fourth the size of a Kate Jackson center.
17:56:36 >> Do you know if it made the list of requests?
17:56:39 >> Back when we did the funding for the extra penny,
17:56:44 it didn't make that the time.
17:56:45 It always been left off everybody's list.
17:56:48 We always ask for it.
17:56:51 This year they said they would look for funding but
17:56:53 didn't say when it would happen and kind of a vague
17:56:55 That was our concern.
17:56:58 Said it looking for funding but didn't say when it's
17:57:02 going to happen.
17:57:02 Just we are looking for it.
17:57:04 >> I have seen the success of other neighborhoods who
17:57:06 have gotten it on a list.
17:57:08 And even if it's at the bottom of the list, eventually
17:57:11 it makes its way up.
17:57:12 >> That's why we keep bringing it up every year.
17:57:14 >> Okay.
17:57:15 Because I know that this request has been multi-year.
17:57:19 Maybe we can ask Karen Palus who is the head of parks
17:57:22 and rec if we can get it.
17:57:26 >>> Thank you.
17:57:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
17:57:32 Councilman Dingfelder?
17:57:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Jim, Frank has identified various
17:57:41 things both verbally and in writing here that I assume
17:57:54 are not on our proposed action plan.
17:57:59 I just wanted to address each one and how they were
17:58:02 addressed in this process.
17:58:13 >>JIM STEFAN: As I mentioned earlier, the dollars that
17:58:15 you see on the sheet that are budgeted or appropriated
17:58:19 or being appropriated are for the projects that are
17:58:23 funded which are the housing programs, and the public
17:58:26 service program, a couple of CIP projects.
17:58:31 You will see some street resurfacing will, you will
17:58:36 see some fencing projects for the Parks Department,
17:58:38 and you will see, I think, it Belmont Heights ball
17:58:42 field improvements.
17:58:43 And you will also note that -- I had two extra copies
17:58:51 of it.
17:58:51 We sent you this document before.
17:58:52 This is the document that I said that we sent out in
17:58:56 June to not just you guys but to the advisory
17:58:59 committee and each of the nine block groups to advise
17:59:04 them what the preliminary reviews are showing.
17:59:09 From that point to November, departments are fine
17:59:14 Departments are actually doing some of these things.
17:59:18 Some of these things have actually been accomplished.
17:59:19 >> Let me focus in on just a few then.
17:59:24 Expanding outreach to homeless is the first item, 1-A.
17:59:29 And you say it's been taken into consideration,
17:59:36 included without a request submitted to the RFP taken
17:59:39 into consideration for funding.
17:59:40 >>> That was a program that they talked about that was
17:59:43 being funded.
17:59:44 >> That is being funded.
17:59:47 Which item?
17:59:48 Where does it fall on the one-page list?
17:59:50 And how much money is it?
17:59:52 >>JIM STEFAN: It's on the right-hand side of the page,
18:00:03 homeless coalition, outreach program, 23,500.
18:00:08 >> 24,000?
18:00:10 >>> 55th hundred, yeah.
18:00:11 >> So is that just seed money to start looking into
18:00:16 It sounds like -- is that the amount of money they
18:00:21 were looking for, those folks here?
18:00:25 >>> The lady talked about it when she was up here
18:00:28 talking to you but that is one of the programs we
18:00:31 So I don't know what the original request was.
18:00:35 >> Maybe I can just hear from her then.
18:00:44 I know that folks in your business never want to look
18:00:47 a gift horse in the mouth, but not having all the
18:00:50 requests in front of me, I don't know what you all are
18:00:52 looking for and what this will accomplish, and I'm
18:00:55 just curious about it.
18:00:56 >>> Lesa Weikel, Community relations manager, homeless
18:01:00 On the original request was actually for 70,000.
18:01:03 And what we are looking to do with that is to bring
18:01:06 together all the different organizations that are
18:01:09 providing meals throughout the city, especially in
18:01:12 this district area, to find a single location where
18:01:16 they can serve, somewhat modeled after one of the
18:01:19 programs in St. Pete with saint Vincent DuPaul
18:01:24 community kitchen, and to bring the services into that
18:01:26 kitchen from the different providers to get people
18:01:29 connected to the service that is they need to get off
18:01:31 of the streets and get the help they need.
18:01:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So what can you do positive with
18:01:37 the third of what you asked for?
18:01:41 I mean, is it still going to accomplish anything?
18:01:44 >> We are going to be able to consider phase one,
18:01:47 which is getting the organizations together, the
18:01:51 community and some of the other outreach
18:01:53 organizations, get that conversation going and get
18:01:55 some plans on the table so that when funding is
18:01:58 available we can look forward to implementing it.
18:02:02 >> And then on the next one, I don't know if this was
18:02:05 your request or somebody else's in regard to the LGBT,
18:02:11 homeless issues.
18:02:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, before you move let me follow
18:02:19 up with one other question.
18:02:20 This particular program, did you request any money for
18:02:23 Hillsborough County?
18:02:24 >>> I do not know.
18:02:25 I'm sorry, I don't have that with me.
18:02:28 >> From my experience, the initial request for the
18:02:32 county then from the city, what we used to do was,
18:02:36 particularly if you get some money from the county we
18:02:38 ask the city to match that many times.
18:02:40 So that may be in, I'm not sure.
18:02:42 But that's what happens in many instances so they get
18:02:45 money from the county as well as the city.
18:02:49 So they may have reached their goal.
18:02:51 >>> I know we did request from the State of Florida
18:02:55 that was not funded obviously in the budget.
18:03:00 >>> Your request for GLBT housing came out of citizens
18:03:08 committee, a group of citizens that identified this as
18:03:10 a need, and that was their proposal.
18:03:13 That's where that came from.
18:03:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
18:03:16 And the response has been what?
18:03:27 >>> One second.
18:03:33 This talks about going through the RFP process.
18:03:36 And didn't give any details about what they wanted to
18:03:41 do and since this was something unique that we weren't
18:03:43 aware of as a committee the more we looked at it the
18:03:47 more we realize it was a problem nationwide.
18:03:50 I called Rayme Nuckles of the homeless coalition, and
18:03:55 I did some digging on the Internet, find out
18:03:58 statistics about what happened, how they are
18:04:01 victimized and those kinds of things, and they came
18:04:04 from the citizens advisory committee.
18:04:06 It was nobody else's request.
18:04:08 It was ours.
18:04:10 >> Ms. Miller, you look like you were anxious to tell
18:04:12 us more.
18:04:13 Is this thing funded?
18:04:14 >>CINDY MILLER: Director growth management development
18:04:20 And I think the dilemma Mr. Roder is addressing is
18:04:24 that it was a recommendation from the advisory
18:04:26 committee, but there was no not-for-profit or other
18:04:31 entities that submitted a proposal to request this
18:04:33 So therefore we had nothing to react to from the RFP
18:04:37 When it came to that particular area.
18:04:41 If I can go to what I believe is going to be the third
18:04:43 question, when it comes to children aging out of
18:04:45 foster care, the homeless coalition did submit a
18:04:49 proposal for that, and that you cannot identify in
18:04:51 your specific listing but it is in the left column,
18:04:55 the multifamily housing construction, it is part of
18:04:57 the 1,453,063 that's identified, and my staff and I
18:05:06 will be back before you in a few weeks if you approve
18:05:09 tonight to award a contract to the homeless coalition
18:05:15 for that purpose in the amount of 262,500, and that
18:05:19 was an application that the homeless coalition
18:05:22 >> And I don't know who to address those to, Jim or
18:05:26 Cindy, one or the other, but the response, Jim says in
18:05:30 regard to the teen issues, says the RFP has been
18:05:37 included with other requests submitted through the RFP
18:05:40 process and we have taken into consideration for
18:05:42 But it didn't sound like even to get that far because
18:05:45 Cindy just told us that it wasn't in the appropriate
18:05:50 So is that the response that went back to the
18:05:54 city-wide group, you know, that you couldn't deal with
18:05:59 >>> One of the things we do especially on city-wide is
18:06:02 we try to link up people, agencies together to try to
18:06:05 come up with a plan so that somebody who feels that
18:06:11 they can do of that, is in line with what their agency
18:06:15 is doing, and it's in line with when their agency is
18:06:19 ready to move in that direction.
18:06:21 So what happened was that we put Frank and the
18:06:25 homeless coalition together, and they talked about the
18:06:30 projects, and the homeless coalition came forward with
18:06:34 two projects, the first one and the third one, and
18:06:37 said that these are projects that we want to go
18:06:39 forward with, and we have the wherewithal to do them.
18:06:43 And it's two separate projects out of four.
18:06:45 And I felt that for the homeless coalition to take
18:06:49 that much on in any one year was a very good thing.
18:06:52 So I thought it was a fairly positive movement that
18:07:00 the homeless coalition was recommending and the city
18:07:02 agreed with it, and moved forward on two of the four.
18:07:06 >> So going through the rest of -- they spoke to
18:07:13 Shannon's and Chief Hogues party in the park program,
18:07:19 which I guess is a community event?
18:07:22 >>> And I'm in communication was the chief, too, to
18:07:24 come up with some money to help Shannon put on the
18:07:27 parties in the park.
18:07:29 >> But that's not through this process?
18:07:31 >>> It's not going through these dollars, right.
18:07:33 >> Okay.
18:07:34 And then the anti-litter campaign issue, and then the
18:07:43 recycling issue, the same thing, they are not being
18:07:45 recommended for funding through this?
18:07:48 >>> Right.
18:07:49 Jim pick any is working on the campaign as we speak
18:07:53 and is going after a variety of sources of money to
18:07:57 fund the program.
18:08:04 >> Thank you.
18:08:04 >>> If I can just mention one thing, that this is the
18:08:09 first cut on these things.
18:08:11 And again, after the budget is adopted, and
18:08:14 departments know what they have funding for, there
18:08:16 will be another version of this coming out again
18:08:20 mentioned in November.
18:08:21 But when the projects are done whether there is
18:08:24 funding for it, and when the anticipated times will
18:08:28 occur, or if there hasn't been something for it, then
18:08:32 they will also tell them that.
18:08:36 >> I just wanted to say that I think this process has
18:08:39 improved so mightily in the last five years.
18:08:44 It is so much clearer for those residents, for council
18:08:46 members, and I feel like you are doing everything you
18:08:49 can to respond to their needs, even if the money isn't
18:08:53 in the CDBG budget, finding other ways of helping
18:08:56 these projects come into realization.
18:08:59 I think that's great.
18:09:00 And I hope that Washington will increase the amount of
18:09:06 funding they give us, because frankly 20 years ago
18:09:10 when I was looking at these budgets, the number was
18:09:14 the same and our needs and the cost of making these
18:09:17 improvements has doubled or tripled in that time.
18:09:19 So we really need more federal help which is something
18:09:23 we all can address in November.
18:09:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
18:09:30 >> Second.
18:09:31 (Motion carried).
18:09:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do we need to take any action, Jim,
18:09:35 No action needs to be taken.
18:09:37 Again thank you, thanks staff for this presentation
18:09:39 And very good presentation.
18:09:42 Thank you very much.
18:09:43 Have a good evening.
18:09:44 Okay, we will move to our 6:00 p.m. items.
18:09:57 If everybody promises to come back.
18:09:58 >>GWEN MILLER: They won't come back.
18:10:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's take about a five-minute break.
18:10:02 And if you all please come right back. About a
18:10:05 five-minute break.
18:19:10 [Sounding gavel]
18:19:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will come back to
18:19:13 We'll have roll call.
18:19:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
18:19:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
18:19:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
18:19:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
18:19:24 Tony, do you want to come up, just before we go to our
18:19:28 public hearing, Tony came in a little late from the
18:19:30 last public hearing, wanted to pass on some
18:19:35 Some information to council.
18:19:37 >>> I just want to say thank you to City Council, to
18:19:41 all of you just for the continued support of the CDC
18:19:45 of Tampa.
18:19:46 We know these are tough economic times and people are
18:19:49 hurting across the economic spectrum, and just want to
18:19:52 thank you for the support of the community effort.
18:19:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
18:19:57 Tony will pass out a packet of information.
18:20:00 We will begin our public hearing this evening.
18:20:02 If staff will come forward.
18:20:04 And let me just swear everybody in first, if you don't
18:20:07 If you are here, you are going to address council, if
18:20:10 you will stand and raise your right hand.
18:20:16 (Oath administered by Clerk).
18:20:23 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
18:20:25 I passed out a document entitled Land Development
18:20:28 Coordination staff recommendations for you this
18:20:31 I would like to go through that.
18:20:32 It does relate to the items on the agenda.
18:20:37 >>GWEN MILLER: We need two more.
18:20:44 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Two more?
18:20:45 I have two.
18:20:50 We could go down to item number 7 on the agenda.
18:21:04 There's actually an area map.
18:21:06 It should be continued till August 28th in order
18:21:09 to run with a special use for alcoholic beverage.
18:21:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Number 7.
18:21:20 >>GWEN MILLER: August 28th.
18:21:32 >>GWEN MILLER: I make a motion to hear it on August
18:21:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe it would have to be opened?
18:21:46 >> Open item number 7.
18:21:48 All of them?
18:21:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If do you them one at a time it's
18:21:51 easier at this point.
18:21:52 >> Second.
18:21:53 (Motion carried).
18:21:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you want to hear, if there is
18:21:58 anybody who is objecting to that request?
18:22:01 >> Yes.
18:22:02 Anyone here want to address council on item 7 on the
18:22:09 Motion to close.
18:22:10 >> So moved.
18:22:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to continue to August the
18:22:17 28th, 2008, at 6:00.
18:22:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion and second to continue.
18:22:25 All in favor?
18:22:27 Thank you.
18:22:29 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Item number 8.
18:22:32 Z 08-34, the petitioner would like to request a
18:22:35 continuance to July 31st, 2008 at 6 p.m.
18:22:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open it.
18:22:43 >> Second.
18:22:43 (Motion carried).
18:22:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here want to address item
18:22:47 number 8 on the continuance?
18:22:48 Anyone from the public?
18:22:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to continue.
18:22:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Moved by councilman Miranda, seconded
18:22:56 by Saul-Sena.
18:22:57 A continuance.
18:22:58 >> July 31st, 08 at 6:00 in the evening.
18:23:06 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I would like --
18:23:08 All in favor let it be known by Aye.
18:23:11 Thank you.
18:23:12 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Item number 2 was withdrawn for a
18:23:15 written request, alderman, if that could be withdrawn.
18:23:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's a continued public hearing
18:23:26 so does not have to be opened.
18:23:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just raise a question here
18:23:32 We have 2, 6, 5, can we just take them at one time?
18:23:38 Instead of a different motion?
18:23:42 So why don't you just call those out and we'll take
18:23:44 one motion, Ms. Feeley.
18:23:47 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I just had items 2 and 5 that were
18:23:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So had is not withdrawn?
18:23:55 >>ABBYE FEELEY: In a, 4 could not be heard.
18:23:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So 2 and 5.
18:23:59 We have a motion.
18:24:02 >>GWEN MILLER: We got a motion.
18:24:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We can only do 2.
18:24:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Miranda made a motion on number 2.
18:24:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor let it be known by Aye.
18:24:16 Go ahead.
18:24:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 5, moved to have this
18:24:20 hearing opened.
18:24:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Second.
18:24:24 (Motion carried).
18:24:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is it the petitioner's wish to have
18:24:30 this continued to July?
18:24:34 >>GWEN MILLER: No, withdrawn.
18:24:35 >> Withdraw this item number 5 off the agenda.
18:24:38 (Motion carried).
18:24:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So moved.
18:24:43 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I believe that's it.
18:24:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 2, 4.
18:24:53 Number 4.
18:24:53 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Those items can't be heard.
18:24:56 They have already been rescheduled.
18:24:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Would you like to remove 4 and 9 from
18:25:00 the agenda then?
18:25:02 >>: So moved.
18:25:03 >> Second.
18:25:03 (Motion carried).
18:25:04 >> So we have 3, 6, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14.
18:25:23 Council, item number 3 on your agenda tonight, Z 07-88
18:25:51 is located at 3610 east 10th Avenue.
18:25:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Just one minute.
18:26:00 It's my understanding we were going to have an
18:26:01 ordinance brought back from this morning to be read.
18:26:03 Is that right?
18:26:05 Let's take care of that and get that out of the way
18:26:08 real quick, please.
18:26:16 >>GWEN MILLER: An ordinance approving a special use
18:26:18 permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, small venue
18:26:21 and making lawful the sale of beverage containing
18:26:23 alcohol of more than 1% by weight not more than 14% by
18:26:26 weight and wine regardless of alcoholic content beer
18:26:29 and wine, 2(APS), in sealed containers for consumption
18:26:33 off premises only at or from that certain lot, plot or
18:26:36 tract of land located at 1718 west Main Street, Tampa,
18:26:40 Florida, more particularly described in section 2
18:26:42 hereof, waivers as set forth herein, setting forth
18:26:48 conditions, repealing all ordinances in conflict,
18:26:52 providing an effective date.
18:26:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to make sure, legal,
18:26:56 that you put in the prohibition that this is a minor
18:26:58 use, with the other uses.
18:27:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Legality the record show that she's
18:27:12 nodding her head yes.
18:27:13 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder absent at
18:27:16 Was there a second on that motion?
18:27:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, I did.
18:27:24 >>: Second reading and adoption will be held on July
18:27:27 31st at 9:30 a.m.
18:27:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Continue.
18:27:31 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Number 3 this evening Z 07-88, did you
18:27:36 open it?
18:27:36 I'm sorry.
18:27:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's a continued hearing.
18:27:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Number 3, yeah.
18:27:42 >> Located at 3610 east 10th Avenue.
18:27:46 Many of you are familiar with this, at this time Gary
18:27:49 It was before you back in December 13th of '07 and
18:27:52 there were some issues related to the site. There was
18:27:55 a vacating at the site that you saw was removed
18:27:57 earlier this evening.
18:27:58 The site is now functioning without the vacating.
18:28:01 And it went before architectural review commission
18:28:07 September 11th of 2007 and they did recommend for
18:28:10 approval of the rezoning.
18:28:12 The rezoning before you this evening is from RM-16
18:28:15 residential multifamily to PD planned development for
18:28:18 a private school.
18:28:21 There are four waivers associated with the proposal,
18:28:24 one for 13161 to allow for a waiver of the required
18:28:28 vehicle use area landscape buffer between the primary
18:28:31 site and east 11th Avenue equalling 912 square
18:28:35 feet to be paid fee in lieu.
18:28:38 Second waiver is also required vehicle use area, green
18:28:42 space, with payment of fee in lieu in the amount of
18:28:45 688 square feet.
18:28:47 The third is a parking waiver to allow for reduction
18:28:50 of the required parking from 504 spaces to 46 spaces.
18:28:55 It's a 91% reduction being asked.
18:28:58 And the last is to allow for maneuvering in the
18:29:00 right-of-way for the bus parking spaces illustrated on
18:29:04 the site plan.
18:29:06 What petitioner is proposing tonight is a reuse of the
18:29:08 Gary school with addition in order to do an Olympic
18:29:11 size swimming pool and recreation, basketball courts,
18:29:15 and turn it into a real neighborhood serving use.
18:29:22 The proposed addition is 50,325 square feet and the
18:29:26 setbacks are as follows: To the north zero feet,
18:29:30 south 6 feet, east 116 feet, and the west zero feet.
18:29:34 Maximum building height is proposed at 45 feet.
18:29:39 As previously mentioned a total of 504 parking spaces
18:29:42 are required and 46 spaces plus five bus spaces are
18:29:46 provided on-site.
18:29:47 A waiver for 458 spaces are requested.
18:29:52 At the time of publication came in, there were
18:29:55 discussions for off-site parking, at a lot to the
18:29:58 north of the site, but under I-4.
18:30:01 It is FDOT lot.
18:30:03 Unfortunately FDOT is going to be using that lot for
18:30:07 construction staging for the I-4 connector.
18:30:09 So that lot is not available for off-site parking.
18:30:13 That is why they are asking for such a large waiver
18:30:16 this evening.
18:30:17 If you look on page 2 of your staff report Land
18:30:20 Development Coordination did find this request
18:30:23 inconsistent giving the amount of the parking waiver,
18:30:26 and the impact that that may have on the associated
18:30:28 neighborhood surrounding the site.
18:30:31 As far as on-street parking of 450 cars on event
18:30:36 Transportation also found it inconsistent based on the
18:30:40 parking waiver and also based on the maneuvering in
18:30:43 the right-of-way to the bus parking, and lastly, in
18:30:46 the report is landscape related to the waivers and how
18:30:51 the waivers are minimal, and they were in support of
18:30:55 I am going to show you some pictures of the site.
18:31:07 This is a site here in green, 10 Avenue to the south,
18:31:14 11th Avenue to the north, 35th on the west,
18:31:17 CSX railroad comes across on the east of the site.
18:31:25 The plant as now is to the north and then you have I-4
18:31:28 to the north.
18:31:32 The aerial I have, I believe, gave you the right area.
18:31:42 This actually has that parking lot that was attempting
18:31:44 to be used.
18:31:47 That should not be in there.
18:31:48 It's this section right down here.
18:32:00 Picture of the Gary school in the front.
18:32:08 This is looking north toward the interstate.
18:32:11 This is to the east of the site where the on-site
18:32:13 parking will be.
18:32:17 I know I have a view from the west where the new
18:32:20 addition will be.
18:32:20 It's just not in the right order.
18:32:26 This is a picture to the south of the new little
18:32:29 commerce park that was just developed in there.
18:32:32 This is directly south of the site.
18:32:36 On 10th.
18:32:37 This is looking north on 36th, the interstate
18:32:43 This is looking to the east of the site, down
18:32:49 Here are some pictures of some of the residential
18:32:52 houses on 36th.
18:32:58 There's also some of the school portables that are
18:33:08 One more item to mention from the staff report are
18:33:10 some comments submitted from Tampa Electric Company.
18:33:12 They are here to speak this evening.
18:33:15 In relation to what is being proposed and the setbacks
18:33:18 of the building.
18:33:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, the last statement
18:33:25 that Mrs. Feeley made was certainly a thing I was
18:33:28 going to bring up.
18:33:29 There's two letters, one from Mr. Kenneth -- and the
18:33:32 other from Mr. Frazier, and would like to make that
18:33:35 part of the record.
18:33:47 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
18:33:49 I have been sworn in.
18:33:53 Just several additional comments to add on to Ms.
18:33:56 Feeley's comments this evening.
18:33:57 She's already told but this being formerly Gary
18:34:01 This has been historically a historically designated
18:34:07 She's given you a pretty good overview of the context
18:34:12 of the area.
18:34:15 This is a classic example of how adaptive use should
18:34:19 be staged.
18:34:25 Serving most of the youth and probably something that
18:34:29 we would all grow with that we are solely in need of
18:34:33 with youth from our city.
18:34:35 Unfortunately as you heard from Land Development Code
18:34:37 perspective, it required a few physical impediments
18:34:41 right now.
18:34:44 In the comp plan perspective however as far as the use
18:34:47 it is complimentary, and the use would be a positive
18:34:49 use for the surrounding community, therefore Planning
18:34:51 Commission has found the proposed request consistent
18:34:53 with the comprehensive plan.
18:34:55 Thank you.
18:35:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
18:35:18 >> Nate Wade, 4345 Manhattan Avenue.
18:35:33 My name is Dillon Alderman with the design group,
18:35:37 south Manhattan Avenue.
18:35:39 I represent the owner developer of the property
18:35:42 located at 3610 east 10th Avenue.
18:35:47 the project is the athletic center.
18:35:52 The focus of the project will be on providing an
18:35:56 athletic venue for the community.
18:35:59 This project was conceived as a way to meet the
18:36:03 shortage for athletic needs by small private and
18:36:07 schools and having have a need to expand their
18:36:10 offerings in different athletic programs.
18:36:14 Primary components include Olympic size swimming pool,
18:36:21 the existing schoolhouse, enclosed basketball court,
18:36:23 which can also be used as volleyball courts.
18:36:31 We anticipate offering programs to the general
18:36:35 community and the community surrounding the facility.
18:36:40 The site is designated as historic landmark.
18:36:45 Provides for the restoration of the exterior of the
18:36:47 existing schoolhouse, which was built in 1913, and the
18:36:52 project was presented to the ARC as mentioned before
18:36:55 and was approved.
18:36:56 The future land use for this site is public-private
18:37:01 public, but somewhat limiting in the different uses
18:37:03 for developing this property as mentioned.
18:37:09 The use that we are proposing is consistent with the
18:37:13 future use designation.
18:37:17 What we are proposing is unique, in that we are
18:37:20 providing an enclosed Olympic size swimming pool.
18:37:24 There are proposed Olympic size swimming pools in the
18:37:28 area but the closest facility is Clearwater.
18:37:31 Thereafter you have to go to Gainesville, then
18:37:37 This is something that's very much in demand.
18:37:39 The current facilities I mentioned, they are bringing
18:37:43 to capacity, the school provides an outlet for
18:37:46 programs related to expand, and there again, it would
18:37:51 cover everything from elementary to programs for
18:38:00 swimming events.
18:38:02 We are close to I-4, north of highway 60 and the
18:38:30 Crosstown, between I-275 and 75.
18:38:33 So as far as accessibility, it's a great outreach to
18:38:37 the community in general.
18:38:43 They showed you some pictures of the school.
18:38:45 These are renderings of the existing structure.
18:38:47 The modifications, fair escapes have been added.
18:38:54 School until it was purchased by the current owner was
18:38:56 being used on all three floors for classrooms.
18:39:00 We continue to propose using the entire structure.
18:39:04 A proposed reuse as you will see here, this is the
18:39:11 perimeter of the existing schoolhouse.
18:39:13 On the ground level would be for the athletes
18:39:20 participating in events at the facility.
18:39:23 Locker rooms, weight rooms, health-type operations and
18:39:29 that is on a lateral plane with the proposed Olympic
18:39:33 size swimming pool so athletes which will be the ones
18:39:36 admitted to this level of the facility will have
18:39:38 direct access to the pool.
18:39:40 People that enter that are coming to use the events
18:39:47 will be directed to upstairs and the elevator.
18:39:53 You will see here as we get up one additional level we
18:39:56 intend to combine the second and third floors of the
18:40:00 existing school and auditorium or gymnasium facility
18:40:04 that will allow us to put in a basketball court
18:40:07 withstands as well as two volleyball courts with an
18:40:11 alternate configuration. This is the main circulation
18:40:14 area for the building.
18:40:16 We will get to cover some of that in a little bit.
18:40:18 But the three components proposed is reuse of the
18:40:21 existing structure, the construction of an atrium
18:40:25 which is a circulation portion of the building between
18:40:28 that and the swimming pool enclosure.
18:40:32 And on the second level would be stands for the pool
18:40:39 When you get to the third floor, that's just primarily
18:40:43 spectator oriented, that's more stands that you view
18:40:49 from a higher level, the activities on the basketball
18:40:51 court and the pool.
18:40:59 This is the proposed elevation.
18:41:00 This is what was approved by the ARC.
18:41:04 We can see here the existing school, with the restored
18:41:08 This section here, which would be the glass atrium,
18:41:13 and then this portion is the extension for the
18:41:18 enclosing the Olympic size swimming pool. This is a
18:41:21 cross section of the building, you can see the ground
18:41:25 floor level extending to the pool.
18:41:28 The second level here combined with the third for the
18:41:32 gymnasium, and then the seating configuration around
18:41:36 circulation space.
18:41:40 The configuration. Building, part of the addition is
18:41:59 tiered which you will see in the next view, but in
18:42:01 addition to that, on the street side, which would be
18:42:06 36, we have brought the lowest profile of the building
18:42:11 to the roadway.
18:42:12 Again here you can see this is the backside of the
18:42:14 atrium where it comes all the way through.
18:42:17 A proposed elevator will become a clock tower as an
18:42:22 addition on the existing structure.
18:42:25 This is a view to the west and they are going to
18:42:29 restore the facade of the existing school, and most of
18:42:34 what the addition is on the west side.
18:42:38 Keeping in mind we are still trying to keep the mass
18:42:43 of the building to a minimum.
18:42:44 This would be from 36 looking east.
18:42:49 We tiered the roof to keep it at a minimum height.
18:42:52 This section would be for water polo on the pool, so
18:42:55 we had to have a higher roof, but try to keep it to a
18:42:58 An inside view.
18:43:00 Here you can see the swimming pool.
18:43:01 And these would be the spectator stands up here.
18:43:04 You can see circulation, the stairs, to get people to
18:43:09 different levels.
18:43:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Could I try to speed this up
18:43:13 It looks like we have a long evening.
18:43:15 I'm impressed, you went through the ARC, got the
18:43:18 recommendation for approval.
18:43:19 But the real question it looks like in the staff
18:43:21 report comes down to parking.
18:43:22 And I see some neighbors, folks are here, and maybe
18:43:27 they are going to be addressing their own concerns
18:43:29 about parking.
18:43:29 But I don't know.
18:43:32 Other council members might have other interests or
18:43:34 issues about architecture and stuff but I'm really --
18:43:37 my biggest concern would be this parking issue which
18:43:39 is a 91% waiver?
18:43:41 >>> Yes, sir, I'm getting to that.
18:43:43 >> I just didn't --
18:43:49 >>> this will give you an idea.
18:43:50 As the configuration of the site.
18:43:53 These are the residential housing is on the west side
18:43:57 of 36.
18:43:58 We have tried to keep all the traffic and pedestrian
18:44:00 circulation isolated from that as much as possible.
18:44:03 It is on the easterly side of the property.
18:44:13 This is the Clorox property here.
18:44:16 These are the areas we are requesting reduction in
18:44:24 green space.
18:44:25 That allows for more parking on our site.
18:44:28 Ultimately, if we could have started from scratch, we
18:44:32 would have configured this differently.
18:44:33 But the historic structure is dead center of the
18:44:37 property and we had to work around that.
18:44:39 The pool in here in blue with a deck around it, those
18:44:43 are minimal dimensions to meet the Olympic swimming
18:44:46 pool standards so that force add pool of this size and
18:44:49 the remainder we tried to make the most efficient
18:44:51 parking as possible on the site.
18:44:57 Now when I came to you before we were looking at a
18:45:00 road closure.
18:45:01 Reason we are asking for maneuverability in the
18:45:04 right-of-way is we were pursuing making this private
18:45:12 If we were to reconfigure the best parking this way,
18:45:16 we lose as many as two spots so there would be 120
18:45:21 students that could come by bus.
18:45:23 We anticipate 60 students per bus could visit the
18:45:27 It is a dead-end street.
18:45:28 There's one neighbor to the north which is Clorox.
18:45:32 That's why we continue to maneuver our buses in the
18:45:37 And we have a diagram for that.
18:45:41 And let me jump to the parking issue.
18:45:49 As Abby stated before, we started this prep back in
18:46:04 June of last year, and we applied to D.O.T. to surplus
18:46:07 the property to the I-4 overpass and at that time we
18:46:12 were told the process would take three to six months
18:46:15 to complete, six months being a worst case scenario.
18:46:18 Ever since then, we are pursuing ways to accelerate
18:46:22 that process and get it into a lease with the D.O.T.
18:46:25 that would utilize that property for parking.
18:46:28 Right up until the end of June this year, that process
18:46:33 is still going forward.
18:46:35 That's when we received notice that D.O.T. was going
18:46:38 to need our property for utilization for staging their
18:46:42 construction on the connector between I-4 and the
18:46:49 Crosstown expressway.
18:46:50 So we are looking for where is there a resource for
18:46:53 And we went to the city and asked them, where is a
18:46:57 place for parking? The Ybor City parking garage has
18:47:00 well in excess of what we are asking for at any given
18:47:03 time that we would be scheduling an event.
18:47:05 I have a letter here from Jim Corbett that he gave me
18:47:09 in response to some questions, regarding use of that
18:47:14 I am going to read a couple items to you.
18:47:16 I would like to enter this into the record when I'm
18:47:18 done as well as my request letter to him.
18:47:23 The central Ybor parking garage has delineated parking
18:47:27 lane on the northbound side of the street.
18:47:29 This lane is currently designated for City of Tampa
18:47:33 police vehicle use.
18:47:36 It has been used for shuttle bus drop-off and pickup
18:47:39 in the past and that's what we are proposing.
18:47:41 We are proposing running a shuttle to and from the
18:47:45 garage on an event days.
18:47:46 Event days will happen less than 50 times a year.
18:47:49 They will generally be on the weekend.
18:47:51 There may be an council case where there would be
18:47:54 weekday schedules, but those items which is item 2 in
18:48:00 this letter, access the garage from had 4th
18:48:04 testimony to 10 p.m. is roughly 800 spaces, available
18:48:06 capacity on Saturdays and Sundays between 7 p.m. and
18:48:11 10 p.m., from 1,100 spaces in the early morning to
18:48:15 just 800 spaces by mid to late afternoon and
18:48:19 subsequent evening hours.
18:48:20 He also noted it would be desirable for the parking
18:48:23 division to have spectators from Ybor City athletic
18:48:26 center to make use of the vacancies within the garage.
18:48:30 We are committed to a program like that.
18:48:35 We are still in pursuit of adjoining properties to
18:48:40 purchase for parking.
18:48:41 This is what we foresee as a stop gap measure and
18:48:46 eventually D.O.T. will be not using the lot under I-4.
18:48:51 The anticipated -- we anticipate it will take at least
18:48:56 two years from approval of this site until it's open
18:49:00 because of the construction of this particular
18:49:03 building and the complex design as well and in those
18:49:09 two years will bring us much closer to that lot being
18:49:11 available again.
18:49:12 But in the interim, one of our concerns is our clients
18:49:20 spent 100,000 on this project to date.
18:49:23 We have a school building that requires extensive
18:49:25 renovation, not only just for the exterior looks but
18:49:30 structurally as well.
18:49:33 Financing comes with operating projects for this
18:49:39 So delaying it and waiting for the lot to come
18:49:46 available is another two years down the road, maybe
18:49:50 three, I don't know, unless we can find another
18:49:52 property to purchase, which we are pursuing.
18:49:55 So what we are proposing, what we are committed to, is
18:49:59 running a shuttle service between the garage and
18:50:02 that's where we would direct our guests on the
18:50:05 weekends to park, and bring them to this facility.
18:50:09 And beyond that, that's where we stand today.
18:50:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have received some
18:50:20 correspondence from Tampa Electric Company about the
18:50:22 proximity of their transition line.
18:50:24 Could you address that now?
18:50:26 >>> Yes.
18:50:27 Initially, when we first brought this project forward
18:50:32 closing the right-of-way, Clorox -- TECO has a fire
18:50:39 pole adjacent to, in the right-of-way, but near
18:50:42 adjacent to our north property line.
18:50:45 That was a concern to them for adding circuits and
18:50:51 also concerns about conductivity from the building.
18:50:53 We used to always plan on was hiring the right
18:50:56 professionals to mitigate the factors with
18:51:00 connectivity, and possible impairments from the
18:51:06 electromagnetic fields from the fire lines.
18:51:09 And that's part of our program to mitigate in
18:51:14 designing this structure.
18:51:16 One of the other concerns with vegetation around the
18:51:18 power pole which we had originally proposed, we
18:51:21 removed those trees, and the vegetation, to have grass
18:51:26 run access for maintenance.
18:51:29 As far as adding another circuit, I don't know what
18:51:33 the ultimate solution to that is, if they want to add
18:51:36 additional lines.
18:51:39 They had asked us to consider moving the power poles
18:51:42 off the street.
18:51:44 My thought is, if there's going to be additional
18:51:46 lines, maybe they could place the new pole across the
18:51:50 street for those lines.
18:51:50 I don't know.
18:51:52 But that's up to TECO to make those statements work.
18:52:00 We are not asking to encroach on the right-of-way at
18:52:02 this point.
18:52:03 We are not asking for -- we are not asking to close
18:52:09 the right-of-way any longer.
18:52:10 We are wanting to construct this facility on our
18:52:13 property, and do our best to design, and to address
18:52:19 these concerns they have.
18:52:19 Frankly we have the same concerns from the beginning.
18:52:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
18:52:26 I've heard different things here, the garage in the
18:52:30 distance and so forth.
18:52:31 This is located roughly on, what, 10th and
18:52:36 >>> 36th.
18:52:37 >> 36th, all right.
18:52:39 And the garage is on 6th and 16th.
18:52:41 >>> Yes, sir.
18:52:41 >> That's the one you are addressing.
18:52:43 You mentioned transportation but you never mentioned
18:52:46 what type of transportation.
18:52:47 Are you going to have buses?
18:52:49 And, if so, what size of bus?
18:52:51 Because that is a historical area.
18:52:53 And where that garage is at, you have a lot of traffic
18:52:57 already on weekends.
18:52:59 If it's a large bus, you will not succeed.
18:53:01 So if you have a small bus you are going to have to
18:53:03 make various trips which would be a disruptive thing
18:53:07 already when the streets are near or at capacity.
18:53:11 The second area of concern that I have, proximity to
18:53:16 that, is TECO has mentioned in a letter in October of
18:53:19 '07 stating that they had objected to that because of
18:53:23 the proximity of the power lines in which your
18:53:27 swimming pool is supposed to be laid on.
18:53:30 And I don't want to see somebody swimming and come out
18:53:32 like a bacon strip.
18:53:34 So I want to make sure that's not there.
18:53:36 I'm not an expert on that.
18:53:37 And when you talk about relocation of the circuit,
18:53:40 TECO mentioned in their letter that the relocation of
18:53:44 the circuit to the north side of 11th Avenue can
18:53:48 be accommodated only if the property owner on the
18:53:51 north side of 11th Avenue agrees in writing to it,
18:53:54 and the expense of the relocation is paid by others.
18:53:58 And the cost of relocation is approximately $300,000.
18:54:02 I understand your client has 100,000 in this venture.
18:54:06 I applaud that client for doing that.
18:54:08 But everyone that comes here today has something maybe
18:54:12 lesser than 100,000.
18:54:14 But these are all things that have to do with your
18:54:18 promotion and your due diligence on the project before
18:54:21 it takes off.
18:54:21 I'm sure you have all done that.
18:54:24 From what I gather this evening, this is something
18:54:26 like an AAU sponsorship where the kids come in with
18:54:30 parents and so forth and so on.
18:54:32 I don't know if I'm right or wrong.
18:54:34 I'm just making an assumption.
18:54:36 And I welcome these types of opportunities for your
18:54:39 client and for the city, and for all those in business
18:54:41 in the area.
18:54:42 However, this is not an area -- this is going to be --
18:54:51 I don't want to give the feeling we are having
18:54:53 sponsorship here of people coming in for free.
18:54:56 I don't think that's the case S.that the case?
18:54:58 >>> no, sir.
18:54:59 This is an operation that will lease or rent space by
18:55:04 the hour or on a regular schedule.
18:55:06 They do intend to have some public offerings that will
18:55:10 be of no charge.
18:55:12 >> Tell me about the buses, or how you are going to
18:55:15 get them there.
18:55:15 >>> Well, initially we had talked to Hart, whether
18:55:18 they would be interested in operating the system, but
18:55:22 at this point they are not.
18:55:25 There are private entities.
18:55:27 We received notice from Ms. Feeley on the 3rd of
18:55:32 July that this property wouldn't be -- I'm sorry, the
18:55:35 lot wouldn't be available.
18:55:36 So in the interim, we have done the best we can to
18:55:39 come out with a solution to that.
18:55:41 We have not had time to look into contract
18:55:45 opportunities with a lot of different bus companies
18:55:52 and contacted them: I can't tell you today what types
18:55:55 of buses we would use. What we are looking to do is
18:55:58 get the people from the garage to the facility.
18:56:01 But it's going to take some analysis.
18:56:03 I don't know what the best bus type would be.
18:56:06 But I appreciate your input.
18:56:07 >> And then the other cost is 300 that you relocation.
18:56:10 I don't know exactly who and how and where and who is
18:56:14 responsible for that, but they are talking about
18:56:17 the -- they wrote the letter, reallocation is paid by
18:56:24 I don't know who others is.
18:56:25 It's not going to be the city.
18:56:26 >> In this case they are referring to, I'm sure, is
18:56:29 the owner of our property.
18:56:31 And what I was mentioning before is maybe there's a
18:56:34 possibility if they do want to expand the number of
18:56:36 lines on the existing poles is when that happens is
18:56:41 set a new pole for new lines.
18:56:43 That is just my consideration.
18:56:44 I have no idea what TECO was thinking.
18:56:52 Yes, and I think there's a comment regarding the
18:56:55 property owner to the north.
18:56:56 At that time when we were closing the right-of-way,
18:56:59 Clorox was going to take the north half of the
18:57:01 right-of-way. That would be private property at that
18:57:04 It going to remain now public right-of-way.
18:57:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions by council?
18:57:13 Thank you, sir.
18:57:14 We will now have public comment.
18:57:19 If you wish to address council, come forward at this
18:57:21 time, please.
18:57:23 Those who wish to address council, will you please
18:57:26 come forward?
18:57:28 If you want to address council, would you come forward
18:57:31 at this time so we know who wishes to address us?
18:57:34 If you are going to speak to council, just come
18:57:37 forward, begin lining up, state your name and address.
18:57:41 You have three minutes.
18:57:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is Victoria and Beatrice here?
18:57:54 >>> Fran Costantino, resident of 2551 east 11th
18:57:59 Avenue in east Ybor.
18:58:02 The petitioner came and made a presentation to our
18:58:06 Just for the record it went before the ARC, not the
18:58:09 BLC, so there's in a conflict here for the record.
18:58:12 They came and made a presentation to the association,
18:58:16 and actually we were very, very happy to receive them
18:58:18 as we were so excited about development, saving the
18:58:23 school, and initially the association had four
18:58:27 One was having access to the facility for
18:58:30 underprivileged children.
18:58:32 We didn't want them to go in our depressed area and
18:58:34 then exclude the neighborhood children from having
18:58:36 access to this facility.
18:58:38 Two, it actually wasn't really in east Ybor, it's in
18:58:42 So we had asked some consideration from the developer
18:58:45 in including Gary somehow in the title since it's in
18:58:49 the historic district.
18:58:50 Transportation was the number one concern.
18:58:54 Obviously that's obvious to you all with a 91% waiver.
18:58:57 And two was to mothball and preserve the school from
18:59:02 Linda, I think you were at one of the meetings where
18:59:05 historic preservation out of the resolving trust fund
18:59:09 gave them $20,000.
18:59:11 Now I have been in that building for probably three
18:59:13 tours, and the $20,000 tarp that we had paid to cover
18:59:17 the roof was actually on the floor in a puddle.
18:59:20 I don't know what condition it is now.
18:59:22 There was mold and mildew.
18:59:25 I actually have a presentation that Gainesville came
18:59:27 and did from the school in a study of what they had
18:59:30 proposed in 2005.
18:59:32 And, you know, I don't know what they are talking
18:59:36 about as far as $100 expenditure preserving that
18:59:39 school, mothballing it.
18:59:41 It must be their fees, because Jim has pictures, and
18:59:44 we also go by there, and we feel from what we have
18:59:47 seen that nothing has been done to preserve and
18:59:49 mothball that school.
18:59:52 We see a dumpster on-site.
18:59:54 We see fences around there.
18:59:56 But it's an actual shame that in this rainy season if
19:00:00 it's leaking anywhere near the way it was when I was
19:00:03 last time in there that anybody would want to develop
19:00:05 this, and in two years from now probably get a permit
19:00:08 to demolish which would just be one of the saddest
19:00:12 I have the articles from the newspaper that I feel
19:00:16 really upset about, that the school district put this
19:00:18 property on the market for 800,000.
19:00:23 There were bids for 650.
19:00:26 And I know they said, Fran, you are a real estate
19:00:28 developer, you have somebody that wants to buy it.
19:00:30 Well, I wanted to buy it, they said.
19:00:32 That's not so.
19:00:33 We had put in a bid for another client for 650 but it
19:00:37 was contingent upon an inspection.
19:00:40 We said, no, we withdraw.
19:00:42 Then it came out in the paper that they purchased it
19:00:43 for 399,000.
19:00:45 So that's why it passed.
19:00:48 So we were really expecting for somebody to come in,
19:00:51 board up the windows, protect the roof and the ceiling
19:00:55 in there, and we can see absolutely nothing has come
19:00:59 into that school.
19:01:01 So we were not wanting it denied other than for
19:01:04 whatever reasons you all would like.
19:01:05 But as an association, and seven people were able to
19:01:08 come with me today, three could not make it, but we
19:01:10 were asking that you continue this so that -- and
19:01:15 obviously I don't know what you are going to do now
19:01:16 with some of those things that I heard tonight.
19:01:18 But we were asking you continue it so they would show
19:01:21 some good faith in going into that school and putting
19:01:24 some money into the school and not giving them a
19:01:26 zoning, a rezoning, the vacating has been dropped but
19:01:32 not to give them rezoning that would help where they
19:01:35 could turn around and if they didn't get what they
19:01:37 want flip it and we have now given them a PD or
19:01:40 something that would be adding value to what they paid
19:01:42 So just our consideration would be to continue it
19:01:46 until they showed some good faith in actually
19:01:49 preserving that historic building.
19:01:52 Thank you.
19:01:55 >> Could I ask a question?
19:01:57 >> Let's finish with public comment and then come back
19:01:59 and ask questions.
19:01:59 >>> Darryl Lafane, 1810 north 35th street which is
19:02:04 about a block and a half from the Gary school.
19:02:07 Last year, I bought over in the Gary community,
19:02:11 because I like the historical precedence, that the
19:02:14 neighborhood has had, the old style homes, and to
19:02:19 bring back some of the old history into that
19:02:21 neighborhood, and not to dwell on what Fran had spoken
19:02:25 about, that those are a lot of the huge concerns that
19:02:28 we have that's mine as a resident right there, with
19:02:32 that size of the school and program.
19:02:35 There's a lost issues to take into consideration.
19:02:39 I think I probably have one of the only properties
19:02:41 that has curbing on the street to prevent people from
19:02:45 pulling up on the line.
19:02:47 If you are talking about 450 additional parking spaces
19:02:51 to maneuver around, what's going to stop people from
19:02:54 going into the neighborhood and filtering into there,
19:02:58 and blocking residences, you know, from getting out of
19:03:02 their own yard?
19:03:03 That's a huge concern.
19:03:04 The other thing that I see is that it is a mix of a
19:03:10 lot of commercial community there with us as well, the
19:03:14 amount of the large trucks, the trains, and there's,
19:03:21 what, four, six neighboring tracks right there around
19:03:25 us, and one train can congest that area beyond
19:03:29 And then the fact that 7th Avenue is the only
19:03:32 gateway into Ybor from 40th and 50th street
19:03:35 coming into there, that's going to really cause a
19:03:39 major congestion problem for the community at Gary.
19:03:43 So my concerns are to see that the planning is done in
19:03:48 a way that everyone is not put out by bringing
19:03:53 something good to the community.
19:03:56 Thank you.
19:04:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Hello.
19:04:04 >> My name is James Simmington, east 8th Avenue,
19:04:09 3510, and I also bought one of the old houses that I'm
19:04:12 doing a complete restoration on, and history is my
19:04:15 And all these plans sound great.
19:04:18 I understand the concerns that were brought up about
19:04:20 the parking and so forth.
19:04:22 But since history is my passion, I want to point out
19:04:26 some of my concerns, and why myself, until these
19:04:30 issues are addressed, I believe that they should be
19:04:34 forced to hold off until they do this.
19:04:36 I don't know if there's somebody here --
19:04:43 >> We can see it.
19:04:44 >> Okay.
19:04:44 Now, I have drawn some arrows here to make it a little
19:04:47 more legible.
19:04:49 Yesterday evening, and mind you, I live right by
19:04:53 there, I go to work every day, go past this school, I
19:04:58 go home for lunch and I go back to lunch.
19:05:00 So I drive by that school a minimum two of times a
19:05:03 If you take a look at the arrows, over here we have a
19:05:06 window that it looks like the sashes are still good.
19:05:10 Downstairs, the same thing.
19:05:12 We have got window panes missing over here, missing
19:05:16 over here, we have holes in pieces of glass and so
19:05:19 forth, what's left. This right here is the west side.
19:05:23 Over here.
19:05:24 Is a photograph of the south side.
19:05:28 The same thing.
19:05:30 You have got your glass in here.
19:05:35 I think they have been this way shortly after they got
19:05:38 the building, or put it this way, many, many months.
19:05:43 Now, I know that they put a tarp over, I think they
19:05:45 did, which is really good, but it really doesn't
19:05:48 matter where the water comes in from.
19:05:50 If it comes in through the window, it's going to be
19:05:53 just like the roof that's leaking like a sieve.
19:05:56 They have done nothing.
19:05:57 I drive by there all the time and I see zero, nothing
19:06:00 done to the outside of the structure.
19:06:03 Nothing whatsoever.
19:06:05 Here's the south side.
19:06:07 Here you have a window that's either opened or glass
19:06:12 Over here you have the upper sash that's been lowered.
19:06:17 There's others here, this right here, here's the west
19:06:22 A close-up.
19:06:24 Here we have got a window here that's been open, down
19:06:28 here that's been open, but no apparent reason why
19:06:32 except just letting the building deteriorate.
19:06:34 Right here is the same.
19:06:37 Over here, this is the north side.
19:06:39 We have a window missing here and a window missing
19:06:41 over here.
19:06:42 And this right here is the east side.
19:06:44 We have got a window missing here, window missing
19:06:47 We have got a sash that's partially opened over here.
19:06:50 Now because I couldn't get onto the property, there
19:06:53 could be more windows that are missing panes of glass.
19:06:57 Also there's a lot of windows that have been shot out
19:07:00 or people have thrown rocks and people have broken the
19:07:04 Nothing has been done to secure the building.
19:07:06 Because history is my passion, this is the most
19:07:08 important thing that must be done first.
19:07:10 Before anything else.
19:07:12 I really don't have a problem with the development as
19:07:16 it has been going.
19:07:16 But it's got to be saved.
19:07:20 And it's just my opinion now -- and I'm sorry if I
19:07:22 have run over -- but it's almost like -- this is my
19:07:28 I don't know.
19:07:30 But they are letting it deteriorate, so maybe they can
19:07:33 get a permit to demolition.
19:07:36 I don't know.
19:07:36 (Bell sounds).
19:07:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
19:07:43 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
19:07:44 I just felt like I need to jump in right now to make
19:07:47 some clarifying points.
19:07:48 A lot of the issues that are raised may be very
19:07:50 serious but they are code enforcement issues and it's
19:07:52 not the proper venue before you tonight.
19:07:55 What's before you is the rezoning and you need to
19:07:57 concentrate on the compatibility.
19:07:59 Thank you.
19:07:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
19:08:02 >>> Andy Fraser, Tampa Electric Company, north
19:08:05 Franklin street. In your hands you have both a letter
19:08:08 and e-mail sent by the council in October 2007 and one
19:08:12 sent over earlier this week.
19:08:14 Since that time Tampa Electric Company has been
19:08:16 attempting to work with the developer, Mr. Alderman,
19:08:19 to try to get past some of the technical and safety
19:08:22 obstacles that were submitted with the first plan back
19:08:24 in October.
19:08:25 In December of 2007, Mr. Alderman submitted a set of
19:08:28 plans to Tampa Electric Company that displayed a
19:08:31 15-foot setback from the right-of-way which we deemed
19:08:34 to be acceptable for the party to move forward.
19:08:37 To our dismay, about two weeks ago, our real estate
19:08:42 department came over the pick up one of our packages
19:08:45 and found the original site plans from October had
19:08:47 been resubmitted which showed a zero-foot setback.
19:08:51 Again I think the letter we submitted to council
19:08:53 clearly display some of our safety and technical
19:08:55 concerns and we really think the project presented
19:09:00 before council now, Tampa Electric Company does see
19:09:02 several safety and technical issues with the way it
19:09:05 was submitted.
19:09:06 Thank you.
19:09:11 >> My name is yara Landers, address is 3209-12th
19:09:24 Avenue east.
19:09:25 That's the east -- the west side of 34th street.
19:09:29 My mother moved to Gary in the '20s.
19:09:32 She attended Gary school.
19:09:33 So did my uncle and my aunt.
19:09:36 And I was raised in the Gary community at a different
19:09:40 time during the good times, the bad times, and I
19:09:44 hopefully we are improving the area as I speak.
19:09:49 My concern is what was expressed, the number of cars,
19:09:54 the tracks, the steel, the lots that are being used in
19:09:57 the community.
19:10:01 There's the decision as to what properties are going
19:10:03 to be bought in the future.
19:10:04 I would like to know where.
19:10:06 We are subject right now to the Lee Roy Selmon so we
19:10:08 are going to have noise impacted from that connection.
19:10:13 I-4 directly in front of me.
19:10:15 We have 34th street which is open now to large
19:10:18 trucks, heavy amount of cars.
19:10:20 We got 7th Avenue.
19:10:26 Where are all these places to park, where are all
19:10:28 these trucks and buses supposedly going to travel
19:10:34 And I do have a last comment.
19:10:36 Apparently the school is under code enforcement
19:10:41 violation, and nothing has been done.
19:10:44 Thank you.
19:10:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, thank you.
19:10:47 Anyone else from the public?
19:10:50 Councilman Saul-Sena and councilman Dingfelder.
19:10:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is a question for our legal
19:11:05 Is somebody allowed to bring something before us that
19:11:11 is under code enforcement violations?
19:11:17 >>> Yes, they are.
19:11:17 >> Okay.
19:11:18 Is there any relationship between granting a permit
19:11:21 for development or granting a zoning and forcing the
19:11:25 property owner to bring their property up to code?
19:11:29 >>> No.
19:11:30 That's a separate process.
19:11:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, the concern and -- I
19:11:43 share Mrs. Kert's concern about what is relevant.
19:11:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay, let me phrase it differently.
19:11:51 Part of this PD is a historic structure.
19:11:53 And the PD is approved, then doesn't that historic
19:11:58 structure that's been renovated have to be part of the
19:12:03 plan, and that historic structure isn't rehabilitated,
19:12:09 then the PD is, ergo, not able to go forward?
19:12:14 Do you understand what I'm saying?
19:12:18 This is historic.
19:12:19 It is a historic structure which is part of the PD
19:12:23 plan that's before us to consider.
19:12:26 >>> Yes, it is.
19:12:27 >> Intact.
19:12:28 >>> Yes, that is correct.
19:12:30 And I think it works kind of in an opposite way of
19:12:34 what you are saying.
19:12:35 You do not grant it because it has not been
19:12:38 >> No, but if we do it must be rehabilitated.
19:12:40 >>> Within a certain amount of time or the rezoning
19:12:46 goes away.
19:12:48 A two-year -- is that correct?
19:12:51 >> They have five years for substantial.
19:12:55 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land development.
19:12:57 I would add if they are in violation today they are in
19:13:00 violation whether they have the PD or not as far as
19:13:03 the maintenance of the structure goes.
19:13:04 So if you do not approve the PD they are still in
19:13:07 violation, so will have to go through code
19:13:09 enforcement, et cetera.
19:13:10 If you do grant the PD they are still in violation,
19:13:12 still have to run the process of code enforcement for
19:13:15 the structure.
19:13:15 So I don't know that the condition of the structure
19:13:17 the way it is today and the fact that it is or is not
19:13:21 in violation --
19:13:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I understand what you are saying.
19:13:28 What I'm saying if the PD shows historic building,
19:13:31 then the historic building would have to be restored
19:13:38 because that's part of the approved PD, if they want
19:13:40 to build this thing.
19:13:42 They couldn't just build the new part and not restore
19:13:44 the old part.
19:13:45 >>> That's correct.
19:13:47 They are showing this historic structure on this site
19:13:49 as being to remain as part of the PD.
19:13:52 They would have five years to substantially construct
19:13:56 the PD, or they would have to meet code at the end of
19:13:59 that five years.
19:14:00 So the worst case scenario -- and let's say they
19:14:06 didn't build anything, they got the PD approved but
19:14:08 they chose not to move forward on the project.
19:14:11 That means five years from now, although the PD says
19:14:13 they would restore it, or maintain it or contain it as
19:14:18 part of this PD, the reality is that it may or may
19:14:26 When someone gets a PD approved whether it has an
19:14:30 historic structure or not the possibility of that PD
19:14:32 never coming to fruition is always there.
19:14:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thanks for the clarification.
19:14:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: There's a couple of concerns that I
19:14:44 think are maybe relevant to this.
19:14:47 One of them -- and perhaps I don't know whether Mr.
19:14:51 Dingfelder wishes to raise his concern -- but one of
19:14:53 the concerns that might be relevant is that is council
19:15:02 is granting the waivers on the base thinks is a
19:15:04 historic structure that will be rehabilitated, it may
19:15:06 be more inclined to grant that waiver, and the concern
19:15:08 would then be if that building is not rehabilitated do
19:15:11 you then vest that property with property rights if
19:15:16 you have 90% of the parking waivers --
19:15:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But if it isn't rehabilitated they
19:15:21 don't get to building.
19:15:23 It's a PD.
19:15:24 It's got a package deal.
19:15:25 It's got to be all together.
19:15:27 It got to be the whole deal.
19:15:28 >>> They can't, what they are showing on the site
19:15:32 plan, the structure has to be built or else they have
19:15:36 to come back before you.
19:15:37 There are substantial change criteria, but the
19:15:41 substantial change criteria would not allow them to
19:15:44 remove this building without coming back before City
19:15:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And the question, though, that I have
19:15:49 would be then those particular property rights
19:15:56 relative though those waivers that --
19:15:59 >>> Those waivers run with the PD.
19:16:01 That 91% parking waiver runs with this proposal as it
19:16:04 is this evening.
19:16:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
19:16:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We could have an interesting legal
19:16:13 discussion on this.
19:16:13 I'm not sure I completely agree with you. Let's say
19:16:16 for argument sake we approve the PD, okay, and that
19:16:19 building got struck by lightning and burned down by
19:16:21 natural causes tomorrow.
19:16:22 All right.
19:16:23 No, in a, in a, let me finish.
19:16:26 I believe there is a very good legal argument that
19:16:28 they could rebuild the structure on that same exact
19:16:31 footprint that we just approved if we approved it
19:16:36 And it wouldn't be the historic structure that you
19:16:38 want to preserve.
19:16:39 So I don't want you to be deceived into thinking
19:16:43 it's -- approving this PD is an ironclad opportunity
19:16:46 to make sure that ultimately it's built with that
19:16:50 historic building.
19:16:53 I just wanted --
19:16:59 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I agree.
19:16:59 The intent though that is being stated is it is shown
19:17:03 as a historic building to remain with the addition.
19:17:06 And I'm just saying administratively or some other way
19:17:08 they could not remove that outside of natural causes
19:17:12 or hurricane or et cetera without coming back before
19:17:16 That would be considered substantially different than
19:17:18 what was approved here this evening by this body.
19:17:21 >> Unless they went through the city process removing
19:17:24 a historic building.
19:17:25 >>> Correct.
19:17:26 >> And then they still have a footprint that's left on
19:17:28 the PD.
19:17:28 >>> Correct.
19:17:29 Unless would you like to make it a council condition.
19:17:32 >> And maybe a voluntary condition.
19:17:34 >>> And that council condition could not be waived by
19:17:38 ARC, et cetera.
19:17:39 >> That sounds like the way to go.
19:17:41 But Linda, you bring up a good point and that might be
19:17:43 the way to go if that's what your concern is to make
19:17:46 it an express condition.
19:17:48 I have a couple of comments.
19:17:50 The gentleman, the petitioners, would one of you come
19:17:55 When I saw the proposed plans on the inside of the
19:18:00 historic building, at least on the side closest to the
19:18:04 swimming pool, it doesn't -- it appears to me that you
19:18:07 are going to gut that building, leave the shell, then
19:18:11 gut that building, because structurally you can't
19:18:14 build a gymnasium and everything else unless you got
19:18:18 it from ground floor to the ceiling.
19:18:20 >>> I actually have an illustration that I could show
19:18:23 Let me go --
19:18:24 >> Well, can you just answer it without --
19:18:26 >>> Well, yes, we do intend to gut the interior.
19:18:30 The interior.
19:18:32 >> That's not unusual.
19:18:32 I'm not --
19:18:34 >>> No, I know.
19:18:35 And part of that will be a steel frame structure to
19:18:40 hold up the exterior walls.
19:18:41 We have in a desire to tear down this building.
19:18:43 >> The facade is really what every community worries
19:18:48 >>> And going through the ARC process, we made
19:18:52 modifications to atrium space so that the facade of
19:18:55 the entire west wall would be visible from the inside
19:18:58 of the building.
19:18:58 And that will be restored as well.
19:19:01 And then we can't attach our building to the existing
19:19:04 structures structurally.
19:19:06 Everything that's proposed will be self-supporting
19:19:10 where it adjoins the structures.
19:19:15 It could be removed, and the historic building could
19:19:18 >> I just wanted to make sure that was clear, because
19:19:20 when I hear about the windows being deteriorating or
19:19:24 that sort of thing, although it is of some concern to
19:19:28 me, even the roof issues, although that's of concern
19:19:33 to me, in the long-term.
19:19:34 In the short term, again, even if you lost the roof,
19:19:38 you lost all the floors, you lost everything else, as
19:19:40 long as you somehow or another can make sure that the
19:19:42 exterior walls are what's being preserved, you have
19:19:45 got to put in new windows anyway across the whole
19:19:48 thing, you know, just for air conditioning purposes
19:19:50 and everything.
19:19:51 All right.
19:19:51 That's that question.
19:19:54 The other comment I wanted to make about TECO, to Mr.
19:19:58 Frasier and Tampa Electric, is that if we were so
19:20:03 inclined to approve this, I think we can approve it
19:20:09 with either mandating a 15-foot setback on that
19:20:12 avenue, whatever it was, 10th, or approve it with
19:20:15 a zero foot setback and a condition that you couldn't
19:20:18 build it unless you move the line.
19:20:20 It's not really a question, it more of a statement to
19:20:24 So I think there's a way around this TECO issue.
19:20:27 But I'm still not real convinced -- and you have time
19:20:30 for rebuttal now -- but I'm not convinced I heard a
19:20:35 great solution on the parking and I also heard from
19:20:37 the expressway authority that that bypass might not
19:20:40 even be 2012.
19:20:42 It might be 2014.
19:20:44 So --
19:20:47 >> Well, yes, in dealing with D.O.T., they told me a
19:20:49 lot of dates as well.
19:20:50 >> So your best solution is the off-site -- let me do
19:20:56 it so the transcript can be clear -- your best
19:20:59 solution is the off-site city parking.
19:21:01 Charlie says it's a couple miles away.
19:21:03 And a shuttle bus system.
19:21:07 And the reason I have a problem with that -- and then
19:21:11 you can rebut -- the reason I have a problem with it,
19:21:14 again I will mention Mr. Miranda, is he's right in the
19:21:16 middle of Tampa stadium in his personal neighborhood,
19:21:21 and that's how many events a year, 15, 20?
19:21:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Excuse me.
19:21:28 There's at least about 20 events a year or more.
19:21:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.
19:21:32 And we know the impact on Tampa of that.
19:21:37 Now, you are not going to have Tampa stadium events
19:21:39 50,000 people.
19:21:40 But -- but, you know, I know what you are getting to
19:21:44 because I have seen some of these facilities in other
19:21:47 And it's a wonderful thing, you know, to bring in
19:21:49 swimming events, NCAA events, the Y swimming events
19:21:54 from all across the nation.
19:21:55 I think that's a very positive thing.
19:21:57 And really ambitious on your part.
19:22:00 But it just scares me a little bit that that nice
19:22:06 quite historic neighborhood could end up with the
19:22:09 massive parking problems that we see in West Tampa.
19:22:11 And I don't know.
19:22:12 I'm real torn, real torn.
19:22:14 >> Okay.
19:22:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions from council?
19:22:19 We really need to move.
19:22:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: For go for rebuttal.
19:22:26 >>> Rebuttal just in case he wants to speak to those.
19:22:30 I just want to make it clear that the shuttle bus
19:22:33 can't be a condition of the PD.
19:22:35 So that's why the waiver is before you the way that it
19:22:38 is today, because it's really doesn't run with that.
19:22:42 Also, sitting there, it came to my attention that the
19:22:45 youth are asking for, and I looked back on the
19:22:48 There's a private school use and it has believe they
19:22:53 may have pulled that use from the property appraiser's
19:22:56 In our zoning code it would be private recreation
19:22:59 facility, a recreation facility private.
19:23:03 I would like for the motion to change that.
19:23:04 Problem is that on the ordinance it does say private
19:23:07 school so we would need to substitute that maybe next
19:23:11 week or something, should it be the pleasure of
19:23:15 council to approve that this evening.
19:23:17 But it would need to be private recreational facility
19:23:19 because it does not meet that, and that is the only
19:23:22 use shown on the site plan and on the ordinance.
19:23:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Could I ask about that?
19:23:30 Where do the parking numbers come from?
19:23:32 Do they come from the private school or from the
19:23:35 >>> They came from place of assembly.
19:23:37 They are a place of assembly.
19:23:41 It's a .3 per seat.
19:23:43 Like we use for churches and things like that.
19:23:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Were you finished?
19:23:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Abby, one question to you if I may
19:23:54 On the facility of the Ybor parking garage being used
19:23:58 to facilitate this or any others, these events take
19:24:00 place three and four days contiguous if I'm thinking
19:24:04 they do, and I'm not against that type of deal, but
19:24:09 what guarantees do we have that the garage is even
19:24:13 >>> I was actually in attendance at the meetings with
19:24:16 Mr. Corda and Mr. Alderman to make the issue and the
19:24:22 city typically does not enter into long-term lease
19:24:24 agreements, which is what we would require in order to
19:24:30 satisfy parking requirements off-site.
19:24:35 And I believe that is why Mr. Alderman presented that
19:24:38 evidence that typically the city is saying in that lot
19:24:42 we have X number of spaces, the occupancy of those
19:24:46 spaces is way below what the capacity is, therefore
19:24:50 leading someone to believe that they had excess of 800
19:24:55 or 900 spaces.
19:24:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's a good point because I was
19:24:59 going to bring up, Mr. Chairman, if you look at the
19:25:01 calculation of the numbers, numbers don't lie, but
19:25:03 it's how you apply them that tells you the facts.
19:25:06 If you look at it from 7:30 to 10:30, 11:00, you may
19:25:11 or may not have capacity.
19:25:12 If you look at it at 3:00 in the morning, I think you
19:25:15 are going to have some capacity.
19:25:16 So if you look at the overall view of the sense of the
19:25:19 numbers then you are going to say yes, I have capacity
19:25:22 when in fact you really don't, here are the numbers
19:25:25 you need for the hours of operation.
19:25:26 >> But I believe that Mr. Corda made it clear in that
19:25:30 meeting that the peak period Friday night, Saturday,
19:25:33 they are still only at about 500, 600 spaces being
19:25:37 utilized when the capacity is 1200 or 1300.
19:25:40 So that's 450 that they are estimated that they are
19:25:43 looking for is theoretically available.
19:25:47 However, like I said, the city does not lease those
19:25:50 spaces on a long-term lease agreement.
19:25:52 >> Except with height.
19:25:55 I mean that's the only exception I have seen.
19:25:57 >>> Yes, that's the only exception I have seen as
19:25:59 well, in that area, yes, sir.
19:26:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions of council?
19:26:03 You have five minute rebuttal.
19:26:05 You have five minutes.
19:26:06 >>> All right.
19:26:07 Mr. Miranda, in regard to that, we did state specific
19:26:12 for anticipated events and at all those times there
19:26:15 were at least 800 spaces, the minimum available at
19:26:18 current use of that facility, and in this letter which
19:26:26 I want to present. I want to clarify with TECO.
19:26:27 When I did meet with TECO, did it show a 15-foot
19:26:31 That was for information purposes, it was to ask him
19:26:36 if we could reconfigure this, would this be
19:26:39 There was no intent to deceive him that we were going
19:26:44 to do that.
19:26:45 But when we went back and looked at the parameters of
19:26:49 the pool, the size, there's not really way to reduce
19:26:53 it without moving it.
19:26:56 So I just wanted to clarify that.
19:26:59 I have no problem with linking this PD somehow to
19:27:03 preservation of the building.
19:27:05 That is fully our intent and we are committed to it.
19:27:09 Addressing some of the neighborhood comments, we do
19:27:14 intend to offer community programs, with community
19:27:19 access, some of those would be free.
19:27:23 We intend to include a plaque describing the Gary
19:27:26 community and some of the history of it within the
19:27:31 As far as maintenance, I have visit -- I. Visited the
19:27:34 site in awhile.
19:27:35 Last time I was there, there were a great many workmen
19:27:38 I can't explain why the pictures look the way they do.
19:27:40 My only guess is the owner is not aware of the
19:27:46 I know he's expend add lot to take care of this
19:27:52 There are two traffic access points off of 436.
19:27:55 Because 436 goes under the interstate, I believe
19:27:59 16th Avenue is the major -- I would have to check
19:28:01 the map for the exact street number.
19:28:04 And then 7th on the south.
19:28:08 And both of those connect with the connection at the
19:28:11 They also move back over to Ybor City proper and the
19:28:16 historic district.
19:28:20 There again, our proposal is we'll do everything we
19:28:24 can in that program to direct people to the parking
19:28:27 garage where we don't anticipate even giving them the
19:28:33 opportunity to -- this is where you park for this
19:28:38 And there again I just want to stress, we are still
19:28:40 going to continue to search out an alternate parking
19:28:45 There are properties for sale around the area.
19:28:47 And we still would want to pursue the D.O.T. site when
19:28:51 it comes available.
19:28:55 If we can get a continuance to address one particular
19:29:07 issue that can't be resolved, we are here to get this
19:29:11 project started.
19:29:12 We do not want to demolish the building.
19:29:14 We want to get approval for the site and finance this
19:29:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
19:29:20 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
19:29:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I had a couple of questions for the
19:29:25 The first one is, have you spoken with the owners of
19:29:28 the Clorox site, and do they intend to keep --
19:29:32 continue their use of their site?
19:29:38 >>> There's a gentleman here that was.
19:29:44 When we were negotiating for the closure of the
19:29:47 right-of-way, there was some exchanges between the
19:29:49 attorneys trying to work out those issues regarding
19:29:53 the street closure.
19:29:55 I have been told that Clorox is under -- has been
19:29:59 under a sale agreement for the property to the north
19:30:02 of under the circumstances, and I suspect that's why
19:30:04 they had delayed making a commitment on the closure of
19:30:06 the right-of-way and that's why we dropped it from the
19:30:09 >> The other question I had is, you heard the question
19:30:12 that Mr. Dingfelder raised about including language on
19:30:16 here that in terms of the TECO concerns, that you
19:30:21 would either move your building away from the zero
19:30:25 setback to the number of feet that they would need
19:30:29 which is 15 or --
19:30:32 >>> 15 feet.
19:30:33 >> Or pay the amount to relocate their transmission
19:30:36 Bottom line is the safety of the swimmers and the
19:30:40 proximity of this transmission line.
19:30:42 So we would need some language to that effect on the
19:30:46 site plan before we would feel comfortable approving
19:30:49 Are you agreeable to putting that on the site plan?
19:30:53 >>> Well, I guess it would depend.
19:30:56 The language in every -- there's six feet available on
19:31:00 the front side of the property that we can shift the
19:31:04 That leaves a remainder of nine feet to satisfy
19:31:09 15-foot reduction in the setback.
19:31:15 We don't have any place -- we already made the pool
19:31:20 deck as small as possible.
19:31:21 I don't know where we would steal from there.
19:31:25 Our intent is to build this structure addressing these
19:31:28 issues that they have.
19:31:31 If there's some compromise we can come to in that
19:31:35 regard, that's something we would like to resolve.
19:31:42 I don't know how to phrase it right now.
19:31:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Since you asked for a continuance, is
19:31:54 there any vacant land you can buy from someone?
19:31:57 >>> Not very much land is vacant for sale.
19:32:01 Most everything is developed.
19:32:02 The property to the southeast is available for sale.
19:32:05 And we approached them to lease -- they were not
19:32:12 interested in leasing us parking space.
19:32:14 The property is up for sale.
19:32:24 In our developer's mind for what they want to sell it
19:32:27 I have been told there are other properties nearby.
19:32:29 We are still in pursuit of finding one that will fit
19:32:32 this project.
19:32:33 >>GWEN MILLER: You are still going to look around that
19:32:35 area and see if there's any properties you can buy?
19:32:39 >>> Yes, ma'am.
19:32:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I have two concerns so I can support
19:32:42 this project.
19:32:43 One is tonight, to address the cyst issue of the
19:32:49 safety issue.
19:32:52 You cannot structure anything tonight unless there's
19:32:54 agreement to deal with the TECO issue.
19:32:56 That is a very legitimate public safety issue.
19:32:59 That has -- it's not clear tonight and has to be
19:33:05 Secondly I'm still concerned about the parking.
19:33:07 Those are two issues tonight.
19:33:09 And I have issues that I have not heard anything to
19:33:14 satisfy my conscience or my belief that is going to
19:33:20 I think it's a good project.
19:33:21 I think the community -- at the end of the day, public
19:33:27 safety is a primary issue, and here TECO is saying
19:33:31 they have a major concern with safety.
19:33:33 I mean, a zero setback?
19:33:36 Come on.
19:33:36 That has to be addressed.
19:33:39 Either 15 feet or somebody is going to have to pay to
19:33:42 move that.
19:33:42 So I have not heard anything that will satisfy me on
19:33:47 that particular issue.
19:33:48 >> If we put a condition to that, that we provide 15
19:33:51 feet or have the T pole moved, would that accommodate
19:33:56 the council?
19:33:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, legal would have to address
19:34:00 I don't know.
19:34:04 >>> That is a condition we are going to have to add
19:34:06 but I remind City Council, you can't have first
19:34:08 reading tonight because the ordinance has the
19:34:10 incorrect use on it.
19:34:11 We are going to have to continue this out to a date
19:34:13 certain so this may be the time to raise all the
19:34:16 issues that you would like them to try to work on.
19:34:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
19:34:24 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Sir, on 10th Avenue, vacant
19:34:32 >>> That's one that's up for sale and runs all the way
19:34:35 over to 40th.
19:34:36 It's a large conglomeration of property.
19:34:39 >> It for sale?
19:34:40 >>> I believe it is, sir.
19:34:41 >> Are you buying it?
19:34:43 >>> We have investigated it.
19:34:49 They were not interested in leasing us space.
19:34:52 Right now they are asking, I believe, a million
19:34:55 dollars an acre for that property today.
19:35:00 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I don't think this
19:35:03 thing should be killed tonight.
19:35:04 I think it needs to be studied a little further.
19:35:06 It's a worthwhile project.
19:35:09 And there's probably some ramifications that have to
19:35:12 be straightened out.
19:35:16 When you have all these historical buildings there's a
19:35:20 lot of people that want to conserve they them.
19:35:23 I think it has to be continued to another week,
19:35:26 another month.
19:35:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, let me just say this.
19:35:35 I am not going to vote against a continuance.
19:35:38 But too often we continue and continue and continue.
19:35:42 With me there's only one continuation.
19:35:44 So this is your second or third, I don't know.
19:35:48 I'm not asking.
19:35:49 I don't even want an answer.
19:35:51 But I am going to tell you straight off the bat, if
19:35:53 you come back and you haven't solved your parking
19:35:55 problem, and you haven't solved your easement problem,
19:35:59 I'm not going to support your project.
19:36:03 That's all I'm going to tell you.
19:36:04 >>> Fair enough.
19:36:06 >> And you better answer to the city on how you are
19:36:09 going to do the transportation, if it is going to be
19:36:11 that garage.
19:36:14 You mentioned Hartline, they said no. You mentioned
19:36:17 In other words, everything is in a smoke cloud that
19:36:20 hasn't been brought back down to vapor to realize what
19:36:24 content of water we have.
19:36:25 I think when you look at the crowd, the people that
19:36:27 are here in the crowd today that are here for some
19:36:32 others had to listen to all of this and then they are
19:36:34 going to have to listen, another group is going to
19:36:36 have to listen to the same thing in another
19:36:39 That's why I say only one continuance, that's it.
19:36:42 If we are prepared to do it.
19:36:44 And that's just a scrivener's error, the I understand
19:36:47 But I can't continue and continue and continue because
19:36:49 my life span may not be that long.
19:36:58 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: We can do it on a night that you
19:36:59 are not here.
19:37:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The other concern I have, and not
19:37:05 to pile on -- and I apologize for this -- but somebody
19:37:08 mentioned about curbs and sidewalks.
19:37:13 I think this type of fa you are going to get some
19:37:16 folks that are going to be overflow parking and end up
19:37:19 out on those streets.
19:37:20 I'm looking at 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th
19:37:24 avenues which seem to radiate what looks like to the
19:37:27 west into residential neighborhoods.
19:37:30 As well as 36th street itself.
19:37:35 And I think that I would have great concern, if we
19:37:39 authorized this tremendous parking waiver, which
19:37:43 frankly, I agree with everybody up here on council, it
19:37:48 doesn't work, just trust me.
19:37:51 If we can't get something in writing that we can put
19:37:54 as a condition on this site plan, then just as Charlie
19:37:57 said, you aren't going to get my vote, because we are
19:38:00 not in a position to trust anybody.
19:38:02 When it comes to these types of things.
19:38:05 It has to be something that legal can approve and that
19:38:08 can be on a site plan and say this is how we are going
19:38:11 to do with this off-site parking issue, number one.
19:38:15 Number two, I would say that you need to look into the
19:38:19 possibility of curbing and sidewalking those adjacent
19:38:25 four or five blocks.
19:38:26 I'm not asking to you go out a mile or anything but if
19:38:29 you go out one block especially to the west there,
19:38:31 which looks to be the residential direction, then that
19:38:35 way, you are at least protecting those folks because I
19:38:38 have seen what happens when people don't have curbs,
19:38:42 and you have a lot of neighborhood parking, you know,
19:38:45 their yards get rutted out, and it just nasty, nasty,
19:38:50 And if you are talking about 50 events a you're that's
19:38:53 once a week.
19:38:54 If I was in that neighborhood that would annoy the
19:38:57 heck out of me. Anyway, you have got a lot to do.
19:39:00 I think overall this council would like to see a
19:39:03 wonderful facility in our community and we would like
19:39:05 to see the Gary school saved, but you have a lot of
19:39:09 hurdles to overcome.
19:39:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ms. Mulhern, then Ms. Saul-Sena.
19:39:16 >>MARY MULHERN: I agree with everyone, that this could
19:39:19 be a wonderful project, but it looks to me,
19:39:21 considering all the waivers you are asking for, and
19:39:24 all the if's, that you just don't have enough land.
19:39:37 You're asking us to put something in a box where one
19:39:42 fits, too big for the box.
19:39:45 I don't know what the point of a continuance is
19:39:47 because you had a continuance for, what, six months or
19:39:53 And the site plan comes back not altered, and you
19:39:58 might have addressed it.
19:40:01 I might not have been listening or heard.
19:40:03 But why exactly is it that you changed the setback
19:40:15 that TECO had asked for?
19:40:17 >>> We haven't changed it.
19:40:19 I showed them a plan to ask them if we did this would
19:40:24 that be acceptable?
19:40:25 And the answer was yes.
19:40:26 But when we examined what we could actually do, that
19:40:28 wasn't physically possible.
19:40:30 What we could give them was six feet and maintain the
19:40:33 building on the property.
19:40:34 >> The other question that occurred tore me -- and you
19:40:39 are an architect?
19:40:40 >>> I'm the designer.
19:40:43 It's a design concept.
19:40:46 >> In the letter, one of the letters from TECO, it
19:40:49 said that the metal roof was the problem?
19:40:52 >>> Well, --
19:40:55 >> I mean, do you have to have a metal roof?
19:40:57 >>> Not necessarily.
19:40:58 And that was one of the issues of the ARC.
19:41:01 They were concerned about materials as well.
19:41:03 The roof will be similar but we are probably going to
19:41:08 be using different materials than we originally
19:41:11 brought before them.
19:41:12 We have to go back for construction plans for their
19:41:15 >> It won't be a metal roof?
19:41:18 >>> It going to be the appropriate roof in conjunction
19:41:21 with the concerns of the power line.
19:41:24 And we haven't started the design phase selecting the
19:41:29 materials, because without having a PD there's in a
19:41:31 point in designing the building.
19:41:42 We had budgeted to hire specialist to address these
19:41:45 >> Your client, when did they purchase the property?
19:41:47 >> I believe it was early 2007.
19:41:51 It might have been the first couple of months.
19:41:54 Somewhere in that range.
19:41:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to get off the dime here.
19:42:02 >>GWEN MILLER: I'm for the project.
19:42:03 I think it will be good for that neighborhood.
19:42:04 Will six months give you enough time to have
19:42:06 everything completed, everything that you need to do?
19:42:10 Or do you need three months?
19:42:12 How long will it take?
19:42:13 >>> I would like to say we can do it in a month.
19:42:20 But we did not anticipate the D.O.T. site.
19:42:26 >> How about two months?
19:42:27 Two months?
19:42:34 Two months?
19:42:35 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I was actually sitting here
19:42:40 contemplating some of this.
19:42:41 This was a case taken in by a previous planner and I
19:42:44 was just sitting there looking at things and once we
19:42:46 go back to recreational facility it's going to change
19:42:48 the parking ratio to 5 per thousand.
19:42:52 I don't have total square footage but that would be
19:42:56 250 parking space,s not 500 parking spaces so we might
19:42:59 be getting in a better condition.
19:43:02 We have hearings available -- we only have one hearing
19:43:05 in October, one in November, one in December.
19:43:07 So either October 23rd, November 13th, or
19:43:11 December 11th.
19:43:13 So you can pick your poison.
19:43:15 Week try for December 11th.
19:43:23 October 23rd or whatever.
19:43:39 The 23rd would be about 90 days.
19:43:41 >> I'll come back and see you in October.
19:43:43 >> October 23rd.
19:43:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Make a motion to continue to October
19:43:47 23rd at 6 p.m.
19:43:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In the interim, close the windows.
19:43:53 >>> I am going to call the owner this evening.
19:43:57 >>ABBYE FEELEY: We can also add some conditions,
19:43:59 speaking with Julia about securing the historic
19:44:01 structure prior to any building permits being issued
19:44:04 for the addition.
19:44:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion for continuance to
19:44:09 October 23rd.
19:44:10 Been moved and seconded.
19:44:17 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The roof that was put on the
19:44:18 convention center, you can't have a metal roof.
19:44:21 It's an energy conservation type of roof.
19:44:29 Call the convention center.
19:44:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
19:44:32 All in favor of the continuance?
19:44:34 Opposed same thing?
19:44:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Beautiful design.
19:44:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open number 6.
19:44:47 >> Second.
19:44:47 (Motion carried).
19:44:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
19:44:50 Item 6.
19:44:52 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Item number 6 is Z 07-32, a Euclidean
19:45:09 rezoning request at 3822 and 3824 north 55th
19:45:15 Petitioner is Dorothy and TD McRae.
19:45:22 This is Euclidean request.
19:45:24 Therefore no waivers can be applied for, nor can they
19:45:27 be approved.
19:45:27 The request is to propose to rezone the property from
19:45:31 RS-50 to CG commercial zoning district to allow for
19:45:35 commercial uses on the site.
19:45:37 CG zoning district requires a minimum of 10,000 square
19:45:40 This site contains 10,890.
19:45:43 The site is surrounded by commercial zoning district
19:45:46 to the west and residential multifamily zoning
19:45:48 district to the south and east.
19:45:50 The site is boarded by Martin Luther King Jr.
19:45:53 Boulevard to the north, 55th to the east.
19:45:57 Based on the nature of the request in a waivers can be
19:45:59 granted and must adhere to all City of Tampa land
19:46:02 development regulations.
19:46:11 This property is right at MLK and 56th at the city
19:46:21 You see on the aerial, the site is vacant.
19:46:28 This back here is a CG zoning off the west of the
19:46:32 There's a cemetery to the north of the property.
19:46:37 I can provide you some pictures.
19:46:43 Here is a picture at the northeast corner of the site
19:46:46 log back toward the site.
19:46:48 This is looking west on MLK.
19:46:51 This is looking south from the northern boundary of
19:46:54 the site looking south.
19:46:58 This is the residential single-family home directly to
19:47:00 the south of the property.
19:47:06 This is a single-family residence at the northeast
19:47:10 corner of MLK and 55th directly across from the
19:47:17 This is also on the east side of 55th headed south
19:47:21 down to the site and another picture down to the site.
19:47:25 Staff found the proposed request consistent with City
19:47:28 of Tampa land development regulations.
19:47:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions from council?
19:47:34 All right.
19:47:34 Planning Commission?
19:47:38 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
19:47:39 I have been sworn.
19:47:44 Just a couple of comprehensive plan related comments
19:47:47 to make here.
19:47:48 The predominant land use categories consist of
19:47:52 basically two, CMU 35 which is right on the south face
19:47:55 as you can see east Martin Luther King Boulevard,
19:47:58 residential 20 to the south.
19:47:59 As Ms. Feeley already described to you most of the
19:48:01 zoning districts are CG uses to the west of the site
19:48:05 and as one gets further to the east outside the City
19:48:07 of Tampa boundaries, your use actually intensify to
19:48:12 more of a light industrial use as one gets closer to
19:48:14 the interstate on the eastern side.
19:48:17 The request is consistent with the uses that are
19:48:24 southwest of Martin Luther King.
19:48:25 As one can see on the aerial, there is actually a
19:48:32 cemetery to the north.
19:48:38 Mr. Miranda, you can tell me what cemetery this is.
19:48:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't visit cemeteries too often.
19:48:52 One day I will remain a long tenant.
19:48:56 [ Laughter ]
19:48:56 >>> That's the Centro -- Centro Espanol.
19:49:02 Planning Commission staff found the proposed request
19:49:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
19:49:10 >>> Inglehart hammer representing applicant.
19:49:15 I have been sworn.
19:49:16 I do have one letter of support that I would like to
19:49:18 enter into the record if I could.
19:49:27 Other than that I will stand for questions.
19:49:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, thank you.
19:49:30 Anyone here in opposition to this project?
19:49:32 Anyone here in opposition?
19:49:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
19:49:37 >> Second.
19:49:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions by council?
19:49:40 All in favor?
19:49:44 All right.
19:49:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Can I have the ordinance?
19:49:50 An ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity
19:49:55 of 3822 and 3824 north 55th street in the city of
19:50:01 Tampa, Florida more particularly described in section
19:50:03 1 from zoning district classifications RM-16
19:50:07 residential multifamily to CG commercial general
19:50:12 providing an effective date.
19:50:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
19:50:16 All in favor of the motion?
19:50:19 So moved.
19:50:20 Thank you, sir.
19:50:21 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being
19:50:22 absent at vote.
19:50:23 Second reading and adoption will be on July 31st
19:50:27 at 9:30 a.m.
19:50:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open public hearing number
19:50:33 I think that's the next one.
19:50:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's correct.
19:50:42 (Motion carried)
19:50:43 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land development.
19:50:52 This is Z 08-36, another Euclidean, on the east side
19:50:59 of the city, located at 1923, 1925 and 1927 north
19:51:03 57th street.
19:51:05 The request is to rezone RS-50 residential
19:51:08 single-family parcel to IG industrial general.
19:51:12 Again no waivers can be requested, nor can they be
19:51:16 The petitioner is proposing to rezone the property to
19:51:19 allow for industrial uses on the site.
19:51:23 IG zoning districts requires a minimum of 5,000 square
19:51:26 feet and the property has 56,544 square feet.
19:51:30 The site is predominantly surrounded by industrial
19:51:34 zoned property with the exception of the property to
19:51:35 the north and a portion of the property to the south
19:51:38 which is zoned residential.
19:51:40 Once again no waivers can be requested, and all
19:51:43 development on the site will have to adhere to all
19:51:46 City of Tampa land development regulations.
19:51:53 This is a picture of the site, 57th street to the
19:51:56 west, Broadway to the north, this is the McKenzie rock
19:52:04 and tank.
19:52:05 There is a lot of traffic on 57th.
19:52:09 They come down to the end of the road, turn around and
19:52:12 come back.
19:52:18 You can see here on the aerial, and this again with
19:52:22 the tank line, a lot of open storage, other IG uses,
19:52:27 IG zoning throughout the area, go back and you can see
19:52:32 that there.
19:52:33 This large parcel just south of Broadway, IG,
19:52:35 everything to the west over here on 57th, IG
19:52:38 immediately to the south of this property.
19:52:40 The exception is these two slivers of the RS-50.
19:52:52 Here's a picture of the site.
19:52:54 This to the south of the site.
19:53:00 Started to get ready to storm that day so it's a
19:53:02 little hard to see.
19:53:04 North of the site.
19:53:07 This is the McKenzie tank loin property that's
19:53:10 immediately to the west of the site and across
19:53:15 Staff found the request for re zoning consistent.
19:53:19 Staff is available for questions.
19:53:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions by council?
19:53:22 Thank you.
19:53:22 Planning Commission?
19:53:23 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
19:53:25 I have been sworn in.
19:53:27 There are two predominant land use categories for this
19:53:30 particular area East Tampa east of 50th street
19:53:33 south of Broadway.
19:53:34 Transitional use 24 which is the cream-like color and
19:53:38 of course the lightweight color which signifies light
19:53:43 There is a variety of light industrial uses in the
19:53:46 area as one can see as depicted by the aerial here.
19:53:48 A lot of outdoor storage uses.
19:53:51 The request is for Euclidean zoning district which is
19:53:53 much more stringent as far as buffering requirements
19:53:56 from adjacent properties.
19:53:57 Planning Commission staff found the proposed request
19:53:59 consistent with the comprehensive plan.
19:54:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions by council?
19:54:03 All right.
19:54:04 >> David MacDill, dear brook creek circle, Tampa.
19:54:18 I have been sworn in.
19:54:19 Actually I have nothing else to add.
19:54:22 I thank Abbye for all her work.
19:54:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in opposition?
19:54:31 Come on down.
19:54:32 >> My name is --
19:54:36 I own the property across the street.
19:54:38 I am not here denying the petition.
19:54:40 The only problem I have got, I would like to see if I
19:54:47 can request to have a setback for the property, when
19:54:52 they come off the truck they use my side and they kill
19:54:57 all the grass, kill the grass.
19:54:58 And this is a picture.
19:55:03 They don't call back.
19:55:06 I give them my phone number and they don't call back.
19:55:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can you tell us where the property
19:55:13 >>> Across the street.
19:55:15 >> You are a cross the street so they take a swing
19:55:19 >>> They use my sidewalk.
19:55:21 And when it's raining, they make a big ditch.
19:55:40 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The resolution is it's illegal to
19:55:42 drive on that portion of the roadway.
19:55:44 You have to call the police department.
19:55:48 >> I would just like to add if this zoning were
19:55:50 approved, I believe that they would be going through
19:55:52 change of use to establish the business under the IG
19:55:57 And in that case, they would need to meet the required
19:56:01 setbacks of 10 feet for their property, et cetera, in
19:56:04 order to conform.
19:56:05 The only other thing I would add is if they were to
19:56:08 continue that I would suggest that he does call code
19:56:12 enforcement and have them come out.
19:56:13 He may also be able to put some bollards on his
19:56:18 property adjacent to his side of the sidewalk.
19:56:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The issue when you look at it looks
19:56:28 like more right of why than his property, so if it's
19:56:31 public right-of-way then that's a different issue.
19:56:33 >>> Correct.
19:56:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
19:56:39 Anything else, sir?
19:56:41 Anyone else?
19:56:42 Anyone else?
19:56:44 Motion to close?
19:56:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Sir, did you want --
19:56:49 Petitioner, did you want to say anything to rebut?
19:56:52 >>> I wasn't aware of the situation or they were
19:56:57 driving on his property.
19:56:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Are they your trucks?
19:57:02 >>> I am just the agent for the owner.
19:57:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
19:57:08 Motion to close.
19:57:09 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
19:57:10 >> Second.
19:57:11 (Motion carried).
19:57:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Pleasure of council?
19:57:20 Ms. Saul-Sena?
19:57:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like to move an ordinance
19:57:24 rezoning property in the general vicinity of 1923,
19:57:28 1925, and 1927 north 57th street in the city of
19:57:32 Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in
19:57:34 section 1 from zoning district classifications RS-50
19:57:37 residential single-family to IG industrial general
19:57:41 providing an effective date.
19:57:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion and second.
19:57:44 All in favor let it be known by Aye.
19:57:49 They would have to meet the required setback as staff
19:57:51 pointed out.
19:57:54 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
19:57:56 Second reading and adoption will be on July 31st
19:58:00 9:30 a.m.
19:58:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion and second to open item number
19:58:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
19:58:09 >> Second.
19:58:09 (Motion carried)
19:58:33 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Number 11.
19:58:36 Land Development Coordination.
19:58:38 Number 11.
19:58:40 Z-08-39 is located at 9412 North Boulevard and from
19:58:47 RS-50 residential single-family to PD planned
19:58:49 development residential single-family.
19:58:51 There is one waiver.
19:58:52 That is to allow for gravel parking, the existing
19:58:55 condition in lieu of paved parking spaces.
19:58:58 The petitioner is proposing to rezone the property at
19:59:00 9412 North Boulevard to nonconforming lot and
19:59:06 Existing lot measures 40-foot by 130-foot and contains
19:59:10 5200 square feet.
19:59:11 The existing one-story home on the lot was built in
19:59:17 1944 and has the following setback.
19:59:21 3-foot 8-foot -- I'm sorry, 3.8-foot north, 2.4-foot
19:59:27 south, 6-foot west, 91.1-foot east.
19:59:30 Property is surrounded by residential on the north,
19:59:34 south and west, and Chamberlain high school directly
19:59:37 across Boulevard to the east.
19:59:38 The Tampa north side country club number one did
19:59:43 subdivision was originally platted in 1926 with
19:59:45 50-foot wide lots.
19:59:53 I am going to go through a little bit and talk a
19:59:55 little bit about my analysis while I do my
19:59:59 I did go back actually to the property appraiser's
20:00:02 office and pulled the property records for this
20:00:06 This property contained 2001 units.
20:00:15 The one was built in 44.
20:00:17 The other unit was built in '53 so both of those were
20:00:21 built prior to 1987 zoning.
20:00:24 The structure is nonconforming.
20:00:26 Whether it had the 50 feet in width or not because
20:00:29 part of the nonconformity is occurring on the south
20:00:32 side of the property.
20:00:33 So the split occurred to the north.
20:00:38 And we can talk about that a little further.
20:00:49 Boulevard to the east.
20:00:50 Forest Hills drive.
20:00:51 Chamberlain high school here.
20:00:58 You will see the red and blue maps.
20:01:13 All of the reds are those lots that conform to the
20:01:16 RS-50 standards, meaning they have 50-foot width or
20:01:22 The blue ones are lots that have less than 50 feet in
20:01:29 The subject property before you this evening is on a
20:01:33 40-foot lot.
20:01:35 It had the minimum lot area which requires a minimum
20:01:38 of 5,000 square feet.
20:01:39 However it does not have the required width.
20:01:42 It was split from the property to the north.
20:01:47 Here is a picture of the subject site.
20:01:50 There's 91 feet back to Boulevard.
20:01:57 My pictures are out of order.
20:01:59 There is another picture.
20:02:01 You can see back there.
20:02:05 This is the structure, the other residential structure
20:02:11 that was on the original zoning lot that was split.
20:02:14 The structure has 60 feet, west frontage.
20:02:20 This is going north on Boulevard.
20:02:22 The subject site.
20:02:28 Other single-family.
20:02:33 And this starts south of Boulevard.
20:02:37 Even a little further south on Boulevard.
20:02:42 This is before you get to the fence.
20:02:43 Then you hit the fence.
20:02:44 And then this is Chamberlain directly across the
20:02:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me, did this come before us
20:02:58 a couple of years ago?
20:03:02 >>> No, did it not. This just happened.
20:03:05 The property was split.
20:03:10 Like I said both structures historically have been
20:03:13 existing there since the 40s and 50s.
20:03:17 The property was split.
20:03:19 House to the north conformed, 60 feet of frontage and
20:03:22 meets the setbacks.
20:03:23 The house, the subject property we are speaking of
20:03:27 tonight is now on a 40-foot lot because of the split.
20:03:30 It meets minimum lot area but does not meet minimum
20:03:33 lot width.
20:03:37 The prior owner sold off those pieces to separate
20:03:42 And the two choices to make the property whole would
20:03:45 be to put them back together again, which would allow
20:03:47 for two units given the square footage, and given that
20:03:51 both of these structures were there so many years ago
20:03:54 back in the 40s, the house that's on the subject
20:03:58 property actually doesn't have conforming south
20:04:01 property setbacks.
20:04:02 So giving it back to ten feet and making it 50 feet
20:04:05 would not help that level of nonconforming as far as
20:04:07 where the structure is sitting where it is, or has
20:04:11 been for 60-something years now, 70-something years.
20:04:16 So the two choices to make the property whole again
20:04:19 would to be join them back together somehow, or to PD.
20:04:23 It is on the outskirts.
20:04:26 It is on Boulevard which is not in the fabric of the
20:04:29 So I found it consistent, given my research on the
20:04:35 And the analysis of the area.
20:04:39 The other thing was, given that those structures have
20:04:46 been sitting there all these years when you drive by
20:04:49 you are not going to know any different that the lot
20:04:51 has been split to be smaller.
20:04:53 I do not believe it's the petitioner's intent.
20:04:56 Petitioner will speak to that further to tear this
20:04:58 house down and construct a now house.
20:04:59 If they do, there are conditions on the site plan that
20:05:02 requires them to meet the RS-50 standards which would
20:05:05 be 7-foot sides, 25-foot fence.
20:05:09 So it would need to conform like all the other RS-50
20:05:13 properties in the area.
20:05:15 The petitioner is here this evening.
20:05:18 Staff is available for questions.
20:05:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Abbye, isn't this about the time
20:05:28 zoning became zoning?
20:05:29 There was some time prior to this --
20:05:31 >>> It was 56, and it was 85 and 88.
20:05:35 >> 56.
20:05:36 I knew it was sometime in the 50s when this --
20:05:39 >>> And that's why Cathy and I talked about this doing
20:05:43 the analysis and she said well, this may have been the
20:05:46 garage to the other structure.
20:05:47 I said I don't think so.
20:05:48 That's when I went back and pulled the property cards,
20:05:51 actually have them here tonight.
20:05:52 It shows this house was the first house established on
20:05:54 the property in like I said in the 40s, and it was a
20:05:58 cottage bungalow.
20:05:59 And then the other structure, I mean, this is part of
20:06:03 the comp plan that allows for density.
20:06:06 They are both very old structures.
20:06:08 It's unfortunate, but I guess it's the way it happens.
20:06:14 Thank you.
20:06:18 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
20:06:19 I have been sworn.
20:06:25 >> A couple of additional comments as relates to the
20:06:26 comp plan.
20:06:28 There are two predominant land use for this area.
20:06:32 This is the Forest Hills area as Ms. Feeley already
20:06:36 Predominant land use category here is residential 10.
20:06:39 And you have Chamberlain high school which faces
20:06:42 property to the east.
20:06:46 As you can see by the aerial, this is pretty much one
20:06:50 of our few suburban neighborhoods that we have in the
20:06:54 City of Tampa that was established in the late 30s,
20:06:56 early 40s and of course this is on the babes
20:07:03 Zaharias golf courses.
20:07:05 Two significant points she brought up that I would
20:07:07 like to point out to you, this is located on North
20:07:11 Boulevard which is basically on the periphery or the
20:07:13 evenly of the Forest Hills neighborhood association.
20:07:17 It face as very busy east which is Chamberlain high
20:07:21 Second thing she brat brought up is there will be
20:07:24 conditions on the site plan to talk about if this
20:07:26 particular structure is destroyed, or it is going to
20:07:28 be demolished for purposes of being rebuilt.
20:07:30 It will have to be rebuilt in conformance with RS-50
20:07:33 standards as far as site -- as far as how the
20:07:39 structure should be rebuilt in the future.
20:07:43 This will not set a precedent for by approving this
20:07:47 for any more of the similar types of use as long this
20:07:51 particular segment of North Boulevard that is adjacent
20:07:53 to the neighborhood proper area of Forest Hills.
20:07:58 Planning Commission staff found the proposed request
20:08:00 consistent with the comprehensive plan.
20:08:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
20:08:12 >>> My name is Lucy Rios.
20:08:15 A little nervous but truly I want to say thank you to
20:08:19 Abbye and the fact that they have covered everything
20:08:21 that I was going to go over so I don't think that I
20:08:23 need to go over anything except for the fact that
20:08:26 everything that is on my site plan that I am going to
20:08:29 uphold everything that's on there, and I don't plan on
20:08:32 adding any additional structures to decrease or
20:08:35 increase the nonconformity that my house has now.
20:08:43 I had bought this property in good faith in October of
20:08:48 2007 and I'm just now finding out because I am trying
20:08:51 to enclose my carport and my front porch.
20:08:55 I found out now that for the existing residential area
20:09:00 so I'm asking council today to approve my zoning from
20:09:04 RS-50 to PD.
20:09:09 And that's pretty much it.
20:09:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
20:09:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Rios.
20:09:19 When you purchased -- I'm not trying to intrude or
20:09:23 anything but it's sort of relevant top what we are
20:09:25 doing here.
20:09:25 But did you finance?
20:09:29 Was there a title search and a mortgage and that sort
20:09:31 of thing?
20:09:32 Was there banking?
20:09:33 >>> Yes, I had an inspection done.
20:09:35 I had a private company.
20:09:36 All of which like I said I bought the property in good
20:09:39 When I saw that all of the zoning laws, city, county,
20:09:43 any regulations --
20:09:44 >> Company didn't require a survey?
20:09:47 >>> I had a survey done.
20:09:49 >> And nobody picked up on this?
20:09:50 >>> No.
20:09:51 And even on the survey when you go to the Hillsborough
20:09:53 County site you can see the way my property is set out
20:09:55 and just by looking at that it seems to me even today
20:09:58 that I meet requirements.
20:09:59 I didn't know until --
20:10:01 >> If this process cost you anything I suggest you go
20:10:04 call the title company.
20:10:05 Somebody screwed up.
20:10:06 >>> They actually have a disclaim theory says that
20:10:09 they don't deal with any zoning or court laws.
20:10:13 But I am going to try with civil court with the person
20:10:19 who did actually sell me the property once this is all
20:10:22 over and I know how much I have actually had to spend
20:10:24 to have my property conform.
20:10:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
20:10:33 Any other questions by council?
20:10:36 Public comment?
20:10:37 Anyone from the public?
20:10:38 Come forward.
20:10:39 Anyone from the public wishes to address council may
20:10:43 come forward at this time.
20:10:45 Anyone from the public.
20:10:48 Wish to address council?
20:10:51 Come forward.
20:10:52 Come on, ma'am.
20:10:55 State your name and address for the record.
20:10:56 You have three minutes.
20:10:57 >>> Julie Sternfels, 9314 Forest Hills drive, which is
20:11:03 actually I'm on the corner of Edison and Forest Hills
20:11:07 which is parallel to North Boulevard but behind it.
20:11:10 And several neighbors and I wrote a letter and sent it
20:11:17 to the council on June 30th.
20:11:23 Here's another picture.
20:11:27 We thought it was a garage for this structure, 9414.
20:11:31 But maybe if it had been a separate cottage.
20:11:35 But the property had always been joined.
20:11:37 And there's one kind of driveway that goes to this
20:11:45 garage, and then it's a variance was requested a
20:11:49 couple years ago, and it was denied.
20:11:53 And I just have to read this.
20:11:54 >> Are you watching the VRB?
20:12:01 Sorry, Julie.
20:12:03 >>> And speaking for the neighbors, we addressed
20:12:09 Chairman Scott and to the other City Council members.
20:12:11 In that letter, we urged you to deny the rezoning
20:12:14 request for the reasons we outlined in our letter.
20:12:18 Simply put we are very concerned that approving this
20:12:20 rezoning would legalize a home that has been doubled
20:12:23 in size without any building permit and legalize the
20:12:27 creation of a 40-foot wide lot in the area zoned for
20:12:30 50-foot wide frontages.
20:12:33 If the previous owner had asked the city if he could
20:12:35 legitimately divide his 100-foot wide lot into a
20:12:39 60-foot and 40-foot lot, they would have been denied
20:12:43 because of RS-50 zoning.
20:12:45 Unfortunately, he divided the lot anyhow and Ms. Rios
20:12:49 purchased the 40-foot wide one.
20:12:53 If she had building permits before she enclosed the
20:12:56 porch and built an addition the permits would have
20:12:58 been denied because of the zoning.
20:12:59 Unfortunately, she did not seek this and apparently
20:13:03 found the only way to fix this was to seek this
20:13:05 planned development rezoning.
20:13:08 As we said in our letter, we do not want you to
20:13:11 approve the construction of new living spaces that
20:13:13 were built too close to our line.
20:13:16 We want the zoning district and building code
20:13:19 restrictions to govern all construction.
20:13:22 That's what keeps the neighborhood safe and in keeping
20:13:25 with community standard.
20:13:27 We feel that approving this rezoning would set the
20:13:29 stage for similar after-the-fact fixes in our
20:13:34 neighborhood and urge to you deny this rezoning
20:13:37 And a couple of neighbors were going to come.
20:13:41 One was the president of the homeowners association,
20:13:43 which is now dissolved, his wife just died, he
20:13:48 couldn't come.
20:13:49 And then my neighbor who lives directly next to me and
20:13:53 behind, this is a picture from his corner of his lot.
20:14:00 This is her house.
20:14:02 And this is the fence line.
20:14:03 And I don't know.
20:14:15 This is North Boulevard.
20:14:18 This is the 40-foot wide lot.
20:14:21 This is her existing building right here.
20:14:23 And it's only two and a half feet or less from the lot
20:14:27 line and only six feet from the rear.
20:14:30 (Bell sounds).
20:14:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Your time is up.
20:14:32 >> Here is the letter.
20:14:37 And -- all right, I have to shut up.
20:14:41 Thank you.
20:14:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
20:14:42 Next speaker.
20:14:46 >>> Samuel, I live at 9214 North Boulevard.
20:14:53 I'm of in favor to rezoning the property.
20:14:57 And the guy next door, I bought the other property
20:15:01 next to it.
20:15:04 So I don't have a problem with she dividing that.
20:15:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You are saying you are in favor of it?
20:15:14 >> Yes.
20:15:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
20:15:15 Next speaker.
20:15:19 >>> Judy Lee.
20:15:21 I live at 9410 North Boulevard.
20:15:23 I live on the south side of Mrs. Rye owes.
20:15:29 As a matter of fact, her fence and my fence are all in
20:15:31 I have no issues or problem with what she's doing.
20:15:34 For one thing, when we are talking about the shortage
20:15:38 of the property, it's next to my fence.
20:15:42 It has nothing to do with over here.
20:15:44 It's not an issue.
20:15:46 And I'm all in favor of what she's doing.
20:15:48 She's making lots of improvements.
20:15:50 She wants to make it her home, as far as safety
20:15:52 issues, we have a very quiet neighborhood.
20:15:57 Other than thousands of cats running around.
20:16:00 And they live behind us.
20:16:04 And the fence the other lady was showing you, she was
20:16:07 talking about behind her house.
20:16:12 He's add joined ton my house.
20:16:14 Our fences connect.
20:16:19 West side, west side.
20:16:20 Yeah, on the west side.
20:16:23 So there's in a issue.
20:16:24 It's not like she's building this humongous building.
20:16:27 She's just trying to make some improvements.
20:16:29 And there that's what we need.
20:16:31 When bee we first moved into the house that I'm in
20:16:34 now, it was a mess.
20:16:37 The house was probably 50-some years old.
20:16:39 If you look at it now you would probably never know
20:16:43 I'm trying to make a difference in our community and
20:16:45 I'm very much in favor of what she's trying to do.
20:16:48 And you know, I would be the perfect person to have an
20:16:52 issue with it.
20:16:54 Like said I live next door to her.
20:16:56 We are trying to clean it up.
20:16:57 So I would like to take into consideration to approve
20:17:03 Thank you.
20:17:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, ma'am.
20:17:05 Anyone else?
20:17:06 Anyone else?
20:17:07 >>> I guess I just wanted to ask, this is --
20:17:13 Ma'am, if you speak into the mike, please.
20:17:16 Pick up the mike.
20:17:19 Either way, pick that up.
20:17:21 >>> Can you hear me?
20:17:26 If I can show this.
20:17:27 Because I think I do need to rebuttal this.
20:17:30 This is my property.
20:17:31 Original home was together with 9412 and 9414.
20:17:35 The previous owner split this.
20:17:37 And I bought 9412 and Mr. Bowl yeah bought 9414.
20:17:47 The own theory lived behind me for the picture there,
20:17:50 the lady just showed, is actually 9403, and I had
20:17:55 spoken to him and he says that his problem basically
20:17:57 is the whole -- somebody else being able to do the PD.
20:18:02 And he actually told me that he couldn't be here so I
20:18:05 just wanted to add that.
20:18:06 Thank you.
20:18:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
20:18:10 Councilwoman Saul-Sena, then councilman Dingfelder.
20:18:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question for legal.
20:18:15 It seems to me that the concern here is less this
20:18:26 structure, whether this would set a precedent in the
20:18:28 area for come up with inadequately sized lots, and/or
20:18:36 would the property owner be able to tear -- if the
20:18:39 property owner tore down the existing house plus the
20:18:43 Could you address those for us?
20:18:48 >>> I can address one.
20:18:55 Would you restate the first question?
20:18:57 >> It was a question of precedent.
20:18:58 If this were to be approved could it be Sue cited by
20:19:02 other people in the neighborhood to illegally divide
20:19:03 lots as a precedent where it happened here and it was
20:19:07 legitimized after the fact?
20:19:09 >>> It can always be cited as precedent but you can
20:19:13 also as part of your motion distinguish why in this
20:19:16 particular situation it was appropriate because it was
20:19:19 preexisting, et cetera, et cetera.
20:19:21 If you include that as part of your motion, when
20:19:23 somebody tries to use it in the future, it will be
20:19:26 clear what distinguishing factors make you feel that
20:19:29 this particular situation was unique.
20:19:37 >>> There is no number seven that says any development
20:19:42 will meet RS-50 standards.
20:19:44 It's just like if they had 50 feet of width, the
20:19:48 7-foot sides, 20-foot front and 20-foot rear.
20:19:54 So they would have to fit in with 10-feet lots of west
20:20:00 on the lot so it would be -- and that's why it would
20:20:02 be real long and deep because the lot is very deep but
20:20:07 very narrow.
20:20:07 So that's why I believe it really is their intent to
20:20:10 keep it the way it is, and not tear down or make any
20:20:13 further addition.
20:20:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
20:20:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think that answered my question.
20:20:22 Let me go back for a second, Rebecca.
20:20:24 I just scribbled something, the condition, something
20:20:26 along the lines of council is approving this PD only
20:20:30 because the home was built 60 years ago before zoning
20:20:34 Just sort of as a statement of intent.
20:20:37 Should we put anything about, you know, this shouldn't
20:20:40 establish precedent nor neighborhood or something
20:20:42 along those lines?
20:20:43 I mean, just trying to signal some future councils
20:20:47 that might look at this?
20:20:48 >>> Yeah, I think it would be appropriate to state
20:20:52 what the unique factors were.
20:20:54 That in itself is distinguishing it from being
20:20:57 precedent for the entire neighborhood.
20:21:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
20:21:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
20:21:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
20:21:04 >> Second.
20:21:04 (Motion carried).
20:21:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder?
20:21:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we would have to do a
20:21:13 little continuance to put this as a condition because
20:21:17 you guys don't like conditions.
20:21:19 You can do it between first and second reading if it's
20:21:22 just a written condition?
20:21:23 >>REBECCA KERT: Actually, I think a precedent you made
20:21:28 as part of your motion, it wouldn't need to be a
20:21:30 condition on the site plan.
20:21:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me make sure petitioner is
20:21:35 acceptable for something along these lines.
20:21:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Need to reopen?
20:21:38 >> No.
20:21:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I think --
20:21:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Probably reopen because she's going
20:21:42 to say "yes" or "no."
20:21:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I think it's irrelevant from her
20:21:47 It's council's --
20:21:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I see, what the condition --
20:21:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's not a condition if I understand
20:21:53 you correctly.
20:21:53 You are setting out the predicate under which you are
20:21:55 making this decision that should not be a precedent
20:21:58 for any other future decision.
20:21:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Bub I want it to be on the site
20:22:03 plan or somehow written up as part of the -- I want it
20:22:08 to be more than the motion in the minutes.
20:22:10 I want it to be as a condition of approval.
20:22:14 I want it to be as a condition of approval, because
20:22:17 that way, it's in the zoning atlas, not in the minutes
20:22:22 of the meeting.
20:22:25 >> Would it be appropriate to add that to the whereas
20:22:28 clause between the first and second reading, whereas
20:22:30 council, in assigning a -- finding of fact because
20:22:34 this predates -- this property predates zoning, would
20:22:39 that be an appropriate solution, Mr. Dingfelder?
20:22:44 >>REBECCA KERT: I understand your point and I'm not
20:22:46 sure it necessarily needs to be a condition.
20:22:48 They can put a statement on the record.
20:22:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Reopen number 11.
20:22:57 (Motion carried).
20:22:58 >>REBECCA KERT: I do understand your point about
20:23:02 tracking your intent directly with the zoning.
20:23:04 So if it was agreeable to the applicant, they could
20:23:06 perhaps make a statement, you know, including
20:23:09 council's motion on the site plan.
20:23:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mrs. Rios, are you with us on this?
20:23:16 Do you have any objection?
20:23:18 >>> If I understand it, it's just to add to the site
20:23:20 plan that I won't rebuild, if I do rebuild it's within
20:23:23 the RS-50 and the whole intent would be -- yes, I do
20:23:27 agree with that.
20:23:35 >> The footprint we already have is a condition.
20:23:37 I'm just suggesting some additional language so this
20:23:39 wouldn't establish precedent in your neighborhood
20:23:41 which is Ms. Stand felled's concern.
20:23:48 One of her concerns.
20:23:51 Thank you, ma'am.
20:23:52 Move to close.
20:23:53 >> Second?
20:23:57 >> Councilwoman Mulhern.
20:23:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I didn't see you.
20:24:02 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't understand how making that
20:24:09 note on the site plan is going to make any difference
20:24:12 in the future when other -- when they are talking
20:24:17 about precedent, they are talking about the
20:24:19 neighborhood, I believe.
20:24:26 The fact that they are being given -- required to fit
20:24:31 within that RS-50 setback means they can't -- this
20:24:36 owner can't do anything differently.
20:24:41 So there's in a precedent for that particular piece of
20:24:46 Any other property we are imagining in the future,
20:24:48 this isn't going to be referenced, unless some of us
20:24:51 are still here, or, you know, all of us are still
20:24:55 here, and all of our staff is still here, and they
20:24:58 remember it.
20:25:00 I don't even understand why we would want to put that
20:25:02 on there.
20:25:05 >>REBECCA KERT: I do want to make it clear that it
20:25:07 wouldn't be a condition, because the conditions apply
20:25:11 to this property only, you know.
20:25:13 So you can't condition the property and then prohibit
20:25:16 it from being used on a separate one.
20:25:18 The only thing I was saying, Mr. Dingfelder, he was
20:25:21 saying more of a tracking mechanism when you are
20:25:24 trying to show the unique features of this property is
20:25:27 why you felt it appropriate to approve it.
20:25:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close?
20:25:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
20:25:35 >>: Second.
20:25:36 (Motion carried).
20:25:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Want me to try again?
20:25:41 I move to approve --
20:25:45 We have --
20:25:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Move the ordinance.
20:25:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll read the ordinance in one
20:25:50 second with the following language, and I'll let staff
20:25:53 figure out where to put that language.
20:26:00 The situation is unique to the site and should not be
20:26:03 used as precedent for any rezonings.
20:26:05 Council is only approving this PD because the home was
20:26:08 built 60 years ago before zoning existed.
20:26:10 And I'll hand this to staff.
20:26:12 So they can get it.
20:26:16 I'll just read it again slowly.
20:26:17 This situation is unique to the site and should not be
20:26:20 used as precedents for any other rezonings.
20:26:22 Council is only approving this PD because the home was
20:26:24 built 60 years ago before zoning existed.
20:26:28 Without objection I'll move an ordinance rezoning
20:26:29 property in the general vicinity of 9412 North
20:26:32 Boulevard in the city of Tampa, Florida more
20:26:34 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
20:26:37 district classifications RS-50 residential
20:26:39 single-family to PD planned development residential
20:26:42 single-family providing an effective date.
20:26:43 >> Second.
20:26:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
20:26:49 All in favor let it be known by Aye.
20:26:52 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
20:26:53 Second reading and adoption will be on July 31st
20:26:56 at 9:30 a.m.
20:26:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open number 12.
20:27:01 >> Second.
20:27:02 (Motion carried)
20:27:37 >>> Located at the northeast corner of church street
20:27:40 and Ohio Avenue.
20:27:42 It is a Euclidean rezoning request from RS-60 to
20:27:50 There are no waivers requested.
20:27:53 Petitioner is requesting to rezone the property
20:27:55 located at the northeast corner of church street and
20:27:57 Ohio Avenue.
20:27:58 RS-50 zoning district to create five buildable zoning
20:28:01 lots measuring 50 by 139 feet.
20:28:04 This would include 69,950 square feet approximately.
20:28:11 Subdivision was originally platted in 1914 with
20:28:14 50-foot wide lots.
20:28:15 The site is currently vacant and located to the east
20:28:18 of the south side Baptist church property.
20:28:21 Standard setbacks for an RS-50 are as follows.
20:28:24 20-foot fence.
20:28:26 20-foot rear.
20:28:27 7-foot side.
20:28:28 This request is for Euclidean zoning district.
20:28:30 Therefore, all development must adhere to all City of
20:28:33 Tampa land development regulations.
20:28:42 Here's Dale Mabry.
20:28:47 To the east.
20:28:49 Grady to the west.
20:28:51 Ohio Avenue to the south.
20:28:53 Iowa to the north.
20:28:55 And church in between.
20:28:58 The unimproved segment of church here, the unimproved
20:29:02 segment of Ohio is kind of like a dead-end right here.
20:29:08 Company here is a cash wash here.
20:29:09 CG uses along Dale Mabry.
20:29:11 So they are not included in the analysis.
20:29:14 My analysis of the area and the adjacent lots, 76
20:29:18 total lots.
20:29:20 19 conform to the RS-60 standards.
20:29:23 Those are the ones in red.
20:29:26 There are 57 conforming to the RS-50 standards.
20:29:29 Which is 50 foot of frontage.
20:29:31 That's 75%.
20:29:32 Those are shown in blue.
20:29:40 Your zoning atlas sheet is going to be better than
20:29:42 mine because mine is actually my work sheet which
20:29:45 shows my red and blue.
20:29:47 This is all RS 60 in here.
20:29:49 There's a daycare on this -- RS-60 here.
20:29:52 There are some RS-60 rezonings that took place on the
20:29:56 north side of bay right here and you see those CG uses
20:30:00 along there.
20:30:08 Picture of the site.
20:30:11 There's a view looking down Ohio where that weird
20:30:17 unimproved segment is there.
20:30:20 Another day I almost got rained on.
20:30:22 Here is a picture of the church property.
20:30:26 Single-family residential on the south side.
20:30:29 Of -- on the south side of Ohio.
20:30:44 This was a mix.
20:30:45 Some RS-60.
20:30:47 Some RS-50.
20:30:48 We had a mix on that side directly south of the
20:30:53 Another picture.
20:30:54 This is the north side.
20:30:55 This is the landscaping company.
20:31:01 Lawn and garden.
20:31:02 Specialty retail.
20:31:03 The site is pretty clear.
20:31:05 However, there are some -- you will see a comment in
20:31:08 the staff report related to some large trees that are
20:31:13 going to need to be considered at the time of
20:31:15 And given them as a Euclidean zoning district, they
20:31:18 will need to comply with all land development
20:31:21 regulations that includes ten foot protected radius
20:31:26 for protected tree, 20-foot if grand, they have
20:31:30 potentially grand trees out there so they will need to
20:31:32 get David Riley out there to take a look.
20:31:34 Staff did find this consistent with land development
20:31:37 regulations and the surrounding pattern of the
20:31:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Planning Commission?
20:31:46 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
20:31:48 I have been sworn.
20:31:50 Just several comments.
20:31:52 Predominant land use category for the general area is
20:31:54 along Dale Mabry highway here which lies to the east
20:31:57 of the subject property, CMU 35, pretty much along the
20:32:01 corridor as we all know, of course residential 10.
20:32:04 Farther to the west.
20:32:07 Some members have council that have been here a little
20:32:09 longer will recall we did several rezonings just south
20:32:12 of the site on bay area to RS-50 and to PD so this is
20:32:15 nothing that's new as far as people trying to
20:32:18 redevelop the sites for fill housings, pretty much
20:32:23 done with the site over here that we are talking
20:32:25 Planning Commission staff also found the request
20:32:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
20:32:41 >>> Long night.
20:32:44 William Hardin, 3603 west Iowa Avenue.
20:32:47 I have been sworn.
20:32:49 I have no further comments.
20:32:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question.
20:32:55 It looks like there's a really beautiful tree in the
20:32:58 middle of one of the lots, and the type of zoning that
20:33:02 you are requesting doesn't allow you to ask for any
20:33:05 So you would have to build back from this tree.
20:33:08 And I just wanted to make sure you are aware of that.
20:33:15 It appears that lot either wouldn't be buildable or
20:33:18 you would have to build a house that's small and
20:33:22 that's in consideration of the setbacks.
20:33:23 I don't know that you have five buildable lots.
20:33:27 You only have four.
20:33:29 I just wanted to make sure you are aware of that.
20:33:31 >>> We have taken that into consideration.
20:33:33 The houses that we are going to build are not going to
20:33:35 be monstrous houses.
20:33:39 We are going to build something that's more typical to
20:33:41 the neighborhood that exists right now.
20:33:44 The tree is no consequence to us, and if there is
20:33:50 we'll deal with the appropriate people to take care of
20:33:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public that wishes to
20:33:56 address council on this matter?
20:34:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: While he's coming up, he could also
20:34:02 ask for a variance.
20:34:03 >>> Al Steenson, 4100 west Leila Avenue here
20:34:17 representing Gandy south civic association tonight.
20:34:21 Very briefly, we discussed this rezoning at our June
20:34:25 There were several questions asked.
20:34:27 The very next day, I emailed Mr. Hardin with these
20:34:32 questions and I immediately got a positive response on
20:34:35 all of our questions.
20:34:38 It came up again Monday night, this past Monday, and a
20:34:42 vote was taken, and the members voted unanimously to
20:34:46 support this petition.
20:34:48 Now, I want to take a moment and tell you why.
20:34:51 This is the very type of in-fill, urban in-fill that
20:34:55 we have been asking for at this podium for over four
20:34:59 Single-family homes, consistent with the surrounding
20:35:04 Mr. Dingfelder, you have been in our meetings and
20:35:07 said, what do we want?
20:35:08 Single-family homes.
20:35:10 This is what we are looking for.
20:35:12 This is what we want.
20:35:14 And we fully support this, and we hope that this
20:35:17 council will support it as well.
20:35:19 And I would like to put into the record copies of two
20:35:24 e-mails that I sent to Mr. Hardin and his responses
20:35:28 So this makes us very happy because this is the very
20:35:36 thing we have been begging for, and our requests -- we
20:35:40 haven't been very successful as you may well all know.
20:35:44 Things aren't going very well on Westshore Boulevard.
20:35:46 Anyhow, we hope you will approve.
20:35:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
20:35:50 Anyone else?
20:35:52 Rebuttal, Mr. Hardin?
20:35:53 Do you have anything else you want to add or say?
20:35:57 Thank you.
20:35:57 >> Move to close.
20:35:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just wanted to say with Al quick,
20:36:04 I agree with you wholeheartedly because the
20:36:07 alternative of those apartments a black a -- block
20:36:10 away on Dale Mabry, nasty apartments, along Dale Mabry
20:36:15 so I agree with you wholeheartedly.
20:36:17 >>> We have to start somewhere.
20:36:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor let it be known by Aye.
20:36:26 >> Move to approve the following ordinance on first
20:36:38 reading, an ordinance rezoning property in the general
20:36:39 vicinity of northeast corner of Church Street and Ohio
20:36:43 Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida, and more
20:36:43 particularly described in section 1, from zoning
20:36:44 district classification RS-60 residential
20:36:46 single-family to residential 50 residential
20:36:49 single-family providing an effective date.
20:36:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor let it be known by Aye.
20:36:54 So moved.
20:36:55 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
20:36:56 Second reading and adoption will be on July 31st
20:36:59 at 9:30 a.m.
20:37:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Miranda, 13?
20:37:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is continued.
20:37:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, yes.
20:37:17 >>> LaChone Dock, Land Development Coordination.
20:37:42 The next item on tonight's agenda is petition number
20:37:46 0828 for the property located at 606 east Tyler street
20:37:50 and 611 east Harrison street.
20:37:54 The request, I need to make a correction on the
20:37:57 report, also the staff report that was provided to
20:38:00 The zoning request was listed as CBD2, and it is CBD1
20:38:07 So it's currently CBD1 with off-street parking and the
20:38:11 request is on the CBD2, central business district.
20:38:14 The petitioner is proposing to rezone the property
20:38:17 from CBD1 to CBD2 to develop a mixed use project.
20:38:21 The 27,300 square foot site is currently unimproved
20:38:26 with principal parking.
20:38:28 The proposed uses include 240 residential units, 442
20:38:33 hotel units, and 7,244 square feet of retail space.
20:38:40 The developer is proposing a 48-foot structure
20:38:43 consisting of ground floor, commercial and parking,
20:38:46 eight stories of parking, one story for meeting rooms,
20:38:49 14 stories of hotel, and 24 stories of residential.
20:38:54 A total maximum building height of 499 feet has been
20:38:59 proposed by the petitioner and opposed by the federal
20:39:04 Aviation Authority.
20:39:05 They total 413 parking spaces are required and 490
20:39:09 spaces are being provided.
20:39:12 There is one entrance for the site which is located on
20:39:15 Harrison street, and it leads to the proposed parking
20:39:20 The proposed setbacks for the petition are 11.5 feet
20:39:26 along Tyler street, zero feet along the interior, and
20:39:30 Pierce Street, and 2.6 feet along Harrison street.
20:39:40 And I have an aerial of the site on the zoning atlas.
20:39:47 This is the site located here in green, pierce,
20:39:53 Morgan, Tyler and Harrison.
20:39:56 And this is a recent rezoning just south of the site,
20:40:03 And I have an aerial of the site.
20:40:06 This is the site again, Harrison and Tyler street, a
20:40:10 cemetery to the north of the site, and transit
20:40:21 This is the site on pierce looking west.
20:40:28 This is on Tyler, another view of the site looking
20:40:34 Another view of the site looking north.
20:40:40 This is west of the site.
20:40:47 South west of the site.
20:40:48 South of the site.
20:40:50 This is east of the site on Pierce Street.
20:40:56 That's the view will go south west on pierce.
20:40:59 This is east of the site.
20:41:04 North of the site.
20:41:07 The cemetery.
20:41:07 Then northwest of the site.
20:41:16 Development review committee has reviewed the petition
20:41:18 and find it inconsistent with applicable City of Tampa
20:41:20 land development regulations.
20:41:22 However, if the applicant provides us with a site plan
20:41:25 of the required note and site plan revision as stated
20:41:28 in the report below, between first and second reading,
20:41:32 DRC will amend its determination and find it
20:41:39 For Land Development Coordination on page 2 of the
20:41:41 staff report the request is to add the following
20:41:44 chapters of the code to the compliance table note,
20:41:47 chapter 13, 22 and 25 must be added.
20:41:52 And on pages A-1 and L-1 and also including the site
20:41:58 data section of the plan that was submitted, please
20:42:00 replace commercial space and reference to commercial
20:42:02 with retail.
20:42:06 Also for transportation, on page A-2 of the plan that
20:42:10 was submitted, the typical garage layout should be
20:42:14 changed to reflect a 12-foot wide ADA parking space.
20:42:20 And that concludes staff's presentation.
20:42:28 If you have any questions.
20:42:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a number of questions about
20:42:31 the urban design, the quality of the urban design at
20:42:34 the street level.
20:42:35 And I figure this is the right time to ask them.
20:42:42 Could Mr. Stair come up?
20:42:54 >> Wilson Stair, urban design manager and I have been
20:42:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
20:43:00 You and I had an opportunity to review this.
20:43:03 I always review all rezonings before the public
20:43:05 And while you said you had a number of meetings with
20:43:08 the petitioner, what we had before us, I don't think,
20:43:16 meets the quality standards that our code really
20:43:21 And there are a number of items that I wondered if you
20:43:32 could -- well, if you could address sort of improving
20:43:36 the things that are currently here, and we could put
20:43:41 these as stickies on the plan prior to second reading
20:43:44 if this were to go forward.
20:43:46 My concerns were things like the fact that the only
20:43:49 entrance, the main entrance is from the parking
20:43:51 structure rather than from the street, the quality of
20:43:54 the awnings, the quality of the pavement, the public
20:43:59 art, and Tampa distance submitted really has no
20:44:05 relevance to this building or the location.
20:44:08 The seating areas aren't really appropriate to the
20:44:11 quality that we would expect for an urban structure,
20:44:16 48 stories used by a great number of people.
20:44:22 I guess basically, I guess what I should do is perhaps
20:44:27 make copies of this for my colleagues and share it
20:44:30 with them.
20:44:30 But I think that this is a much crisper, clearer
20:44:35 summary of the quality expectations to make this
20:44:38 proposal compatible with our guidelines.
20:44:42 >>> I certainly agree.
20:44:44 And there's been an evolution from the beginning of
20:44:48 the first designs for this project.
20:44:51 I do believe that petitioner will be agreeable to --
20:44:58 they have pushed for quality and design.
20:45:00 Some of the things we would have gotten to anyway, but
20:45:05 I do think that some of the items that you brought up,
20:45:10 Mrs. Saul-Sena, were very valid, and it's good that we
20:45:15 detail it, and I believe that through that effort that
20:45:20 the design will be refined.
20:45:24 The points you made about the public art, Robin Nigh
20:45:31 will be involved in the process as we go forward.
20:45:36 In terms of some of the items, I must say probably
20:45:43 some, because it was done with a cad rendering, some
20:45:51 cad drawings are very good, the renderings.
20:45:54 Others, it's kind of like clip art.
20:45:57 You know, like the benches came across like benches
20:46:02 you see at bus stops, and not that some of them are
20:46:05 really good.
20:46:09 But, anyway, they take it like clip art and plug it
20:46:15 And the lighting is not always right.
20:46:17 But we plan to discuss materials, and a lot of things,
20:46:21 we have got to address in the 30, 60 and 90 phase of
20:46:27 carrying this design out.
20:46:28 And we are certainly not finished.
20:46:31 But I appreciate your input.
20:46:35 And as far as I'm concerned, we will plan to address
20:46:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay, I'll get copies.
20:46:44 >>WILSON STAIR: Thank you.
20:46:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Wilson, don't go far.
20:46:50 This so-called side elevation, which side is there?
20:46:59 >>> That's the west side, sir.
20:47:00 And that's also going to be -- this particular project
20:47:08 is a also more than half a block and this is the
20:47:14 adjoining side.
20:47:15 We have had a lot of discussion with the petitioner
20:47:16 and the designer on addressing that wall in the
20:47:21 meantime, until something is built there.
20:47:25 But we have got to add more character, and we plan to
20:47:30 do that.
20:47:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess my point is, what's the --
20:47:36 in our code we say give us elevations at the PD.
20:47:40 So now we have elevations.
20:47:42 But then you are saying they are going to change.
20:47:44 I guess the petitioner can speak to that as well.
20:47:48 But --
20:47:55 >>WILSON STAIR: To a certain extent they'll change.
20:47:57 But generically they are going to be in the same
20:48:02 >> So is our attitude, when you face a neighbor, is
20:48:05 our attitude that we don't care?
20:48:07 I mean, I'm not sure.
20:48:09 I don't really know.
20:48:11 I'm not even being facetious for a change.
20:48:14 But is our attitude that we don't care?
20:48:17 If you know another building is going to go butt up
20:48:20 against it?
20:48:22 >>WILSON STAIR: No, that's a legitimate question and
20:48:25 it is a concern.
20:48:26 We are going to address that wall as best we can in
20:48:29 terms of it being a parking garage.
20:48:37 And lock I said, we discussed it at length.
20:48:39 We are going to have to add some character to that
20:48:45 We have still got a lot of architectural detailing to
20:48:48 look at.
20:48:49 But we can take steps to score it, to add --
20:48:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We had this discussion, I think, on
20:48:59 a project over there.
20:49:02 Off of Kennedy.
20:49:06 What was that street we closed off Kennedy?
20:49:11 Thank you.
20:49:13 Remember we had that discussion about using forced air
20:49:20 In parking garages?
20:49:21 And maybe that would overcome that look?
20:49:27 Has that been discussed with the petitioner at all?
20:49:32 >>> Not at this time but certainly a good idea that we
20:49:35 will discuss it.
20:49:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
20:49:45 Planning Commission?
20:49:45 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
20:49:50 I have been sworn.
20:49:56 Very brief.
20:49:56 We know this is in a CBD, predominant land use
20:50:00 category with CBD.
20:50:01 We have a little -- the Central Park project.
20:50:07 Of course Perry Harvey park.
20:50:08 Let me go to the aerial.
20:50:11 See what the land use is.
20:50:12 The cemetery, the Marion Transit Center, federal
20:50:17 courthouse, of course, Florida, which just got its new
20:50:23 I don't know if you saw the new sign.
20:50:25 Also the approved site in excess of 400 feet just for
20:50:31 reference, just trying to refresh your memories with
20:50:36 And we do know that as you go farther to the north
20:50:39 away from Kennedy Boulevard, that's why you basically
20:50:42 have gotten FAA approval because the farther north you
20:50:45 go the higher you can go so that's I guess why you
20:50:47 have gotten approval already from the FAA.
20:50:51 You go up 541 feet, something along that line.
20:50:55 As far as your maximums start to the north.
20:50:57 But as far as the scale, and what's been allowed in
20:51:00 the CBD, the request is pretty much complementary and
20:51:06 consistent with the manner of development for the
20:51:09 Planning Commission staff found the proposed request
20:51:11 consistent with the comprehensive plan.
20:51:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
20:51:25 >>> David Smith, 401 East Jackson Street, 33602,
20:51:47 planner with the Stairs Miller for the petitioner.
20:51:52 We have had an evolution, became involved with the
20:51:54 project after it had already been submitted and met
20:51:57 several times with Wilson, went back and forth with
20:51:59 the developer, and made numerous changes to the site
20:52:05 plan as it stands, and I do have a copy of the summary
20:52:13 occurrence, and the applicant has not had any problem
20:52:17 addressing those at the design stage, at 30%
20:52:21 With Wilson's review.
20:52:23 We have been going back and forth again with Wilson on
20:52:32 There are three pedestrian access points, but I think
20:52:34 your point is that they are not clearly defined with
20:52:36 respect to the streetscape, and the ornamentation on
20:52:40 the building itself.
20:52:41 And when I talked to petitioner, the developer about
20:52:45 that, he agreed that there's doors there but they do
20:52:51 kind of blend into the glassing on the project.
20:52:54 Also, with respect to the garage, yes, it is kind of a
20:52:58 dilemma when you have an abutting property that is in
20:53:04 central business district that can be built on today
20:53:06 up to 120 feet without any site plan, that it's likely
20:53:11 they are going to have a parking garage so you will
20:53:12 have a parking garage butted up against the parking
20:53:15 garage, how to deal with the intervening time when
20:53:20 there's no building there. I believe the petitioner
20:53:22 is more than willing to work with Wilson on.
20:53:25 I think the -- of course you are very familiar with
20:53:29 the Ward Street condition.
20:53:30 We were dealing with putting in as much -- closing it
20:53:34 up as much as possible but still not requiring --
20:53:39 trying to make it as solid as possible. We can do
20:53:42 that by putting in more full windows on that
20:53:44 elevation, to break it up.
20:53:49 What it's intended to show, and I'll get to the
20:53:52 What it's intended to show is that there be a metal
20:53:55 mesh louver, not unlike what's been approved in other
20:53:59 downtown projects directly across the Street on the
20:54:02 project that was referenced by Mr. Garcia.
20:54:06 There was a metal louver mesh that encased parts of
20:54:10 the parking garage to provide screening but also
20:54:16 I think what we have, that was a full block
20:54:18 development so it wasn't really abutting somebody's
20:54:23 feature development.
20:54:23 You knew what you were going to get immediately
20:54:26 because you are there in the day and going to see it
20:54:28 all the time, so we don't have a problem with adding
20:54:31 that to the notes with respect to working with Wilson
20:54:34 in the capacity issue and breaking up that facade.
20:54:37 But with that, let me just go quickly.
20:54:41 I know there's one more petition behind us and a lot
20:54:43 of people waiting all night.
20:54:46 But this is an elevation that's in your package, for a
20:54:52 change we have actually numbered the pages so we can
20:54:54 follow them more easily.
20:54:56 Looking to the city view north, this is a cemetery.
20:55:00 The federal courthouse, the Floridan hotel, and
20:55:04 immediately across the street that Tony was
20:55:06 referencing, it's a 36-story mixed use project that
20:55:11 actually is involved with.
20:55:13 Central Park is immediately to our east across orange.
20:55:17 The most approximate building is approved there in the
20:55:21 master plan are 300-foot in multi-story mixed use
20:55:25 build buildings as well.
20:55:27 Looking again African-American the downtown area
20:55:28 towards the interstate, it's still hard to get it into
20:55:37 perspective but it gives you an idea, the dimension
20:55:40 here, this is about 400 please plus feet tall.
20:55:43 This is not, you know, 150 feet taller than but it's
20:55:47 in relative scale, gives you an idea where it's
20:55:50 positioned in the grid.
20:55:53 And one last view, central village will go downtown
20:55:59 towards the development.
20:56:00 The site plan, one of the comments that was made
20:56:04 relative to access points was there is one on pierce.
20:56:08 There are two pedestrian entrances on east Tyler, and
20:56:13 the lobby entrance and the parking entrances are all
20:56:17 off of Harrison.
20:56:19 Harrison is the only two way street that is available
20:56:21 to this project.
20:56:22 And therefore we will have all our major traffic
20:56:26 activity on that two way street.
20:56:32 The staff had mentioned relate to these notes here
20:56:35 what we call commercial space and should be row tail
20:56:38 space to the note that it's an actual retail
20:56:43 We have put the large amount of open space and
20:56:47 pedestrian areas and fountain features on Tyler,
20:56:51 because Tyler is the most heavily traveled street in
20:56:53 the grid in this location.
20:56:56 Therefore it has the most visibility, gets the most
20:56:59 setback, gets the most open space features.
20:57:02 Some of the comments that -- that were discussed by
20:57:10 councilman Saul-Sena relate to these conversation
20:57:13 tips, the awnings related to them, the interface of
20:57:17 this walkway system with the sidewalk, and the
20:57:20 relationship of these architectural features on the
20:57:26 corners of the building.
20:57:27 Those are all things that can easily be addressed
20:57:32 during the 30% design review.
20:57:36 The handicapped space dimensional issue relates to --
20:57:40 this is 11-9, it needs to be 12.
20:57:44 That's going to be handled by moving the spaces over
20:57:46 here, adding a foot, gives them full dimension.
20:57:50 We will not lose any parking spaces by that
20:57:53 So those are addressed between first and second
20:57:58 The elevation, and I will just skip to the actual
20:58:01 elevation that was dealing with the parking garage,
20:58:08 first off, the nature view.
20:58:10 The intent of the cone he at the corner was to provide
20:58:15 a lighting he element in the evening to provide some
20:58:22 Again when you render that in cad it becomes dark and
20:58:25 lacks definition and we will be able to work with that
20:58:29 with Wilson to provide more definition at the corners
20:58:31 and to -- councilman's Dingfelder comment on this
20:58:41 particular element.
20:58:43 This is the abutting property that basically won
20:58:46 two-thirds of a block.
20:58:49 We have had conversations with adjacent property
20:58:51 He's in support of the project and didn't have a lot
20:58:55 of concern but there is a concern from the design.
20:58:57 What this looks like until somebody build on that
20:59:01 And we can work with Wilson to break these up with
20:59:05 glass elements.
20:59:05 We would like not to have to force air the parking
20:59:10 garage because it's expensive.
20:59:11 But if that's what it ends up being at the end of the
20:59:15 day in order to meet the design requirements that's
20:59:17 what we'll do.
20:59:18 But we can again work that out with Wilson.
20:59:21 I would be happy to add that as a note.
20:59:23 >> Right now it's a good sixties look.
20:59:27 >>> I hate to say this, with dark night come out, a
20:59:32 couple of those elements would fit right in.
20:59:39 I think it's a different acting building and something
20:59:42 that -- we have a lot of buildings looking alike these
20:59:46 A little architectural variety is important.
20:59:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just meant the base.
20:59:51 It's sort of sixties or seventies louvers.
20:59:54 >>> Right.
20:59:55 And, you know, it's the one side of the building that
20:59:58 we don't have all the glass treatments on everything,
21:00:00 because we know eventually it's going to be somebody
21:00:06 else's garage and not going to be seen anyway.
21:00:09 >> I like what the county did in their parking garage
21:00:11 with their fake windows.
21:00:12 >> And then they put screens in them.
21:00:15 So you can't really see it.
21:00:18 I'm not sure Wilson will agree that he likes that.
21:00:21 [ Laughter ]
21:00:24 I have had conversations with Wilson about that garage
21:00:28 We'll work with Robin Nigh and public art.
21:00:30 I know it's late.
21:00:31 I'll be glad to answer any questions that I can
21:00:33 We would like to keep on our schedule and add those
21:00:36 notes and be back for second reading on the 31st.
21:00:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is this located within the CRA area?
21:00:47 >>> It in the downtown CRA.
21:00:48 Yes, sir.
21:00:50 Be glad to answer any questions, save any time for
21:00:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
21:00:58 council on this project, this zoning?
21:01:02 Anyone from the public wish to address council?
21:01:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
21:01:07 >> Second.
21:01:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anything else?
21:01:11 Anything else you want to add?
21:01:14 >>> No, sir.
21:01:15 I have nothing else.
21:01:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
21:01:19 (Motion carried)
21:01:21 What's council's pleasure?
21:01:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Wait, wait.
21:01:27 I'm sorry.
21:01:31 >>GWEN MILLER: It's closed.
21:01:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, then I move to reopen.
21:01:35 I move to reopen.
21:01:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is there a question you wish to ask
21:01:38 or statement you wish to make?
21:01:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to make sure that the
21:01:41 items -- that petitioner had verbally said that they
21:01:44 were comfortable with it and that this will be
21:01:48 >> Yes, yes.
21:01:52 >>GWEN MILLER: An ordinance rezoning property --
21:01:55 >>REBECCA KERT: I need to make a clarification before
21:01:57 you read that.
21:01:58 There's only one note on the sheet that's supposed to
21:02:01 be added.
21:02:01 The rest are more comments and discussion points and
21:02:04 it's my understanding the applicant is only proposing
21:02:06 to add the public art, and --
21:02:14 >>> That's incorrect.
21:02:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's reopen then.
21:02:16 (Motion carried).
21:02:18 >>> Just to make council and counsel -- David Smith,
21:02:24 401 east Jackson street for the petitioner.
21:02:26 We agree with adding as notes those items that have
21:02:30 been enumerated in what has been handed out to
21:02:33 Probably needs to be read into the record or provided
21:02:35 to the clerk.
21:02:36 And we realize one of them is specifically a note.
21:02:39 The others are design direction which will provide
21:02:42 Wilson an opportunity to have teeth in his review, and
21:02:46 we fully understand that and we are will to put that
21:02:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
21:02:51 Mr. Chairman, the reason that we have to do this is
21:02:53 because we haven't yet adopted chapter 27 with bet are
21:02:58 rules that have these more specific and higher
21:03:03 It's inferred but this spells it out specifically.
21:03:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Legal, are you satisfied?
21:03:08 You look like you are still --
21:03:10 >>REBECCA KERT: Well, we need about five seconds here.
21:03:16 To get some clarification.
21:03:17 Again, some of those notes say things like, redesign
21:03:22 your plan, or black doesn't look good.
21:03:25 So they are not particularly notes, they are more
21:03:27 discussion points and we need to figure out whether or
21:03:29 not adding those notes is going to be something that
21:03:32 can be certified by the zoning administrator between
21:03:34 first and second reading.
21:03:35 I am going to need Abbye to comment on that.
21:03:40 >>ABBYE FEELEY: If you are asking they be added as
21:03:43 notes, then you are not asking that those redesigns
21:03:45 take place at this time.
21:03:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think those redesigns need to
21:03:50 take place.
21:03:51 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Then if that is your direction I need
21:03:53 you to be very specific in what you want done so that
21:03:56 redesign is brought back and that those actual
21:04:00 comments can be certified by Cathy as a zoning
21:04:03 administrator as being fulfilled by the direction of
21:04:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The current site plan that's been
21:04:09 submitted to us does not reflect these changes.
21:04:11 >>> That's correct.
21:04:13 But I know on one of those it says investigate the
21:04:15 possibility to do something.
21:04:16 How do you come back and say we investigate it if we
21:04:18 are not going to do it now?
21:04:20 That was the result of the investigation.
21:04:21 Therefore, what is before you is what we are bringing
21:04:25 back to you.
21:04:26 That cannot be certified by the zoning administrator.
21:04:28 That is one of the --
21:04:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I make a suggestion?
21:04:34 The middle line, the first note to the rest of them,
21:04:38 instead of revised PD elevations, Linda, how about the
21:04:42 public arts program manager shall, in the 30, 60, 90
21:04:49 day review, the public arts programs -- not the public
21:04:52 Not the public arts manager.
21:04:55 Wilson, which is the downtown person review, should
21:05:03 include the following in the 36, 90-day review.
21:05:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me, but that's putting the
21:05:10 onus of redesign on our staff rather than the
21:05:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, it putting the onus on the
21:05:16 petitioner to address those issues to the satisfaction
21:05:20 of Wilson, when he does the 30, 60, 90 day review.
21:05:25 That's the intent of what I'm saying.
21:05:27 Because otherwise, what do you want to do, come back
21:05:31 to council?
21:05:32 >>> That would be my suggestion, which at this point
21:05:35 is either you need to address it as notes, and it goes
21:05:38 back, and that becomes at the discretion of the urban
21:05:41 design manager.
21:05:43 If council is not comfortable with that, then I would
21:05:45 suggest continuing this, having them redesign and
21:05:48 bring back those redesigns to you so you know whether
21:05:51 or not it is needing these.
21:05:53 A lot of what you are proposing is very subjective,
21:05:55 and it's what you are looking for and could not be
21:05:59 certified by the zoning administrator.
21:06:01 She might think you think one thing and then it comes
21:06:04 back, and the question is does that or does that not
21:06:07 meet the intent of council's question?
21:06:09 And that is a difficult thing top do.
21:06:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I don't know, I would rather that
21:06:19 the professional design standard of the professional
21:06:21 staff be satisfied rather than council.
21:06:24 These are just the points that currently are not
21:06:33 So I would be comfortable if -- well, on the other
21:06:37 hand, our professional design manager says it's okay
21:06:43 and I don't think it's okay.
21:06:45 I mean, I want it to be redesigned and be better.
21:06:47 The quality that's in the proposal before us is not
21:06:49 what it needs to be.
21:06:51 David Smith, do you think that your client could come
21:06:53 back in 60 days, having addressed the issues on here,
21:06:59 or 30 days?
21:07:00 I don't know how quickly they can design things.
21:07:06 >>> Well, I don't know that we could address all these
21:07:09 things in that time period.
21:07:11 I'll have to ask him because actually he's the
21:07:13 designer, involved in it.
21:07:16 My concern is, and when we talked with Wilson, several
21:07:20 of these things with respect to areas and integration
21:07:27 with the street system and demarcating the doorways is
21:07:31 not a major design exercise, well, design exercise as
21:07:36 far as not letting Wilson do his job as long as he has
21:07:40 I saw these as providing him clear direction that we
21:07:44 wanted more integration here, we want benches -- the
21:07:49 problem is you said the clip art, you know.
21:07:51 We could use --
21:07:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To be candid this proposal is for a
21:07:56 48 story building. That is one expensive building.
21:07:58 >>> Yes, it is.
21:07:59 >> But you would submit something with the quality of
21:08:03 design in this, it's a complete disconnect.
21:08:06 >>> Right, and I understand.
21:08:07 I think the issue again is the cad designer who
21:08:13 basically did these renderings did computer aided
21:08:16 design, the clip-art in, which I believe does not do
21:08:20 justice to the intent.
21:08:21 I agree with you, 100%.
21:08:24 What we would be talking about is coming back with a
21:08:28 different level of rendering to show that we are going
21:08:30 to have the high quality.
21:08:33 That is anticipated.
21:08:34 And I believe that is something that Wilson is more
21:08:36 than able to handle during the actual construction
21:08:42 plan review when it comes in 30 days.
21:08:45 When it comes in at that time, we will have, you know,
21:08:48 details as far as this is the bench we are putting in.
21:08:51 What we are trying to do here is show this is how the
21:08:55 interface is that we are going to have pedestrian
21:08:57 seating areas.
21:08:57 I understand it's not exactly to the level you would
21:09:01 And you know I have done a lot of projects.
21:09:02 I mean, so I understand what you are talking about.
21:09:07 But I'll ask the developer if he continues to do that
21:09:11 but I don't know that it's necessary to do that.
21:09:14 It's obviously council's decision.
21:09:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would honestly be comfortable if
21:09:19 I believed that you all will meet these standard, you
21:09:23 will redesign, and that our staff will be demanding in
21:09:26 what they review at 30, 60 and 90.
21:09:31 >>> I didn't mean to interrupt but I told Wilson when
21:09:35 we discussed these that there were concerns.
21:09:37 I said, Wilson, you know that we have worked with you,
21:09:39 you know, to get it improved, and it's dramatically
21:09:42 improved from where it started.
21:09:44 And that if there's direction given to you which I
21:09:47 consider the teeth of this review, which are these
21:09:49 guidelines, we will be able to meet that because we
21:09:51 know we are not going to get past 30% review if these
21:09:55 items are not addressed.
21:09:57 That's when it has to happen.
21:09:58 And I believe that's possible.
21:10:00 I know they may have a different opinion.
21:10:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That these things could be
21:10:09 included -- Abbye, that these things could be included
21:10:14 between first and second reading with the
21:10:16 understanding that the review would be by the city's
21:10:19 professional urban design staff.
21:10:23 I am confident that with this specificity, my
21:10:30 confidence is well placed.
21:10:31 I'm asking for feedback from staff.
21:10:35 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes.
21:10:37 I think that David has an amendment to your sheet of
21:10:41 suggestions that he would like to bring forth in
21:10:44 relation to turning it into a note on the plan with a
21:10:49 timing mechanism to address those issues.
21:10:52 >>DAVID SMITH: Right.
21:10:53 I believe it's just semantics but it may solve the
21:10:56 We have what is revised PDA elevations to address the
21:11:00 What we do is change as an intro to that, it would
21:11:03 save at the time of 30 day construction plan submittal
21:11:06 the urban design, the manager and the developer shall
21:11:08 ensure that the plan reflects be the following:
21:11:14 Design enhancement.
21:11:15 And this gets in the teeth.
21:11:19 And therefore the urban design manager, that's his job
21:11:21 anyway, he's going to review the 30% plans to ensure
21:11:25 the quality of the design standards are met.
21:11:27 And we have no problem with that.
21:11:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
21:11:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
21:11:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
21:11:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor let it be known by Aye.
21:11:37 (Motion carried).
21:11:39 >> An ordinance rezoning property in the general
21:11:41 vicinity of 606 east Tyler street and 611 east
21:11:45 Harrison street in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
21:11:48 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
21:11:49 district classification CBD-1 central business
21:11:53 district, off-Street parking, to CBD-2, central
21:11:56 business district, hotel, retail, providing an
21:12:02 effective date, and include those comments that Mr.
21:12:04 David Smith added.
21:12:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And the language that was outlined by
21:12:07 him, and he just stated.
21:12:10 So the staff, you understand, legal, did you
21:12:12 understand the language that he just gave us?
21:12:20 >>> I think you just want a document submitted by
21:12:23 Councilwoman Saul-Sena as further amended by Mr.
21:12:25 Smith, and those items identified by staff in the
21:12:30 staff report including the note changes, et cetera.
21:12:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
21:12:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I may, was there any additional
21:12:38 language that is required to be read from this
21:12:40 document, from your marked-up agenda as part of that
21:12:47 >>> It was.
21:12:48 It was to add the note of compliance complains to be
21:12:54 included and the -- commercial, turned commercial to
21:12:58 be retail.
21:13:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And to mention the ADA parking? Is
21:13:02 that part of your motion?
21:13:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Part of my motion.
21:13:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Hasn't been moved and seconded yet,
21:13:08 has it?
21:13:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Even with these improvements I 'til
21:13:11 tell you, I still can't vote for I still don't think
21:13:15 it's up to the quality standards we should have
21:13:17 I think that it will be better but I think we need to
21:13:20 look at our design standards with an eye toward
21:13:23 tightening them and improving them.
21:13:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion and second.
21:13:26 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent
21:13:31 at vote, Saul-Sena voting no.
21:13:35 Second reading and adoption will be on July 31st
21:13:40 at 9:30 a.m.
21:13:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Our last item is a continued public
21:13:46 hearing on item 14.
21:13:53 Sorry, staff.
21:13:59 >>> Council, this petition was previously before you
21:14:01 on May 15th of '08 presented by Catherine Coyle,
21:14:05 zoning administrator, daytime meeting for a 5135, 3157
21:14:10 North Florida Avenue.
21:14:11 The original request was for a 4(COP) for the land
21:14:18 This is the bungalow for a salon, at 5135 north
21:14:32 Florida and 4(COP-X) for the restaurant building at
21:14:35 5137 north Florida.
21:14:36 The entire development site contains 16,104 square
21:14:43 feet, two buildings and a parking area, 14 spaces.
21:14:46 The proposed 2(COP) wet zoned parcel area is limited
21:14:50 to the footprint of the building and contains 1,821
21:14:54 square feet.
21:14:55 The proposed 4(COP-X) wet zoned parcel is also limited
21:14:58 to the foot print of the building and contains 2,622
21:15:04 square feet.
21:15:05 I have revised staff reports for you from Ms. Coyle.
21:15:12 I think you all familiar with site and would be happy
21:15:27 to go over the photo presentation if you would like me
21:15:29 to do so.
21:15:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We are familiar with it. .
21:15:37 >>> As you will see at the bottom of the staff report,
21:15:45 Ms. Coyle made a note concerning the restaurant
21:15:47 portion of the site in its current reconfiguration.
21:15:50 This was previously noted on the record.
21:15:52 It was permitted for occupancy of 54.9 persons
21:15:56 including seating on the enclosed patio, retail area,
21:15:59 and the bathrooms on the first floor, with storage and
21:16:02 office only on the second floor, and that staff
21:16:08 recommends still there needs to be proper permits for
21:16:12 that seating area needs to be obtained.
21:16:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead.
21:16:35 >>> Joseph Diaz, offices at 2522 West Kennedy
21:16:39 Boulevard and I have been sworn.
21:16:45 The original application that was presented was
21:16:47 seeking to wet zone this big rectangular piece with a
21:16:53 The new application that's before you is limiting the
21:16:56 request to just the two structures.
21:17:00 The structures to the north is the restaurant, a
21:17:04 4(COP-X) at that location.
21:17:06 The structure to the south is a salon and the day spa.
21:17:17 Let me see if I can assist council in this.
21:17:23 We are aware of the fact that council in its previous
21:17:26 deliberations was looking for some conditions.
21:17:30 We are standing here before you today telling you that
21:17:33 we are -- have met with, and I think had the support
21:17:37 of most of the neighbors and the associations in the
21:17:40 area based on the following: With respect to bungalow
21:17:46 bistro, bungalow bistro would have a 4(COP-X) and that
21:17:49 zoning classification would require that the alcoholic
21:17:53 beverage sales will be incidental to a restaurant
21:17:59 The only thing that could exist at that site is a
21:18:08 I think another factor that came up in that earlier
21:18:11 presentation was what the hours of operation would be.
21:18:14 Unusually there was no restrictions.
21:18:17 It's our proposal that the hours of operations on
21:18:21 Sunday through Thursdays limited to 11:00.
21:18:26 On Friday, Saturday, and national holiday, and what we
21:18:32 are trying to get to is like New Year's Eve, is what
21:18:36 we are concerned about, assuming it fell on something
21:18:39 earlier than a Friday or Saturday -- excuse me, I
21:18:43 Sunday through Thursday would be till 12:00.
21:18:46 Friday and Saturday, national holiday would be till 1.
21:18:52 We also are cognizant to the fact you all had concerns
21:18:56 about whether or not there would be a noise issue.
21:18:58 There would be no live music, no amplified music, that
21:19:04 would exist after 10 p.m. on Sundays through
21:19:08 Thursdays, and after 11 p.m. on Fridays and Saturdays.
21:19:17 I think -- and I think what you are going to hear is
21:19:21 that there's really no objections to the zoning
21:19:24 classifications either at the restaurant or at the
21:19:28 I think what you are going to be hearing mostly is the
21:19:31 hours of operations, if any, and we have certainly had
21:19:38 some back and forth with the opposition and that's my
21:19:40 understanding of where we are at.
21:19:44 With respect to forever beautiful salon and day spa,
21:19:52 that location, we are proposing, a 2(COP) incidental
21:19:55 at that location.
21:20:01 We would be willing to restrict the fact that
21:20:04 alcoholic beverage sales would always be incidental to
21:20:09 only the following types of operations.
21:20:14 A restaurant, an art gallery, personal services, and a
21:20:20 specialty restaurant.
21:20:25 The reason that we are asking for the 2(COP) is so
21:20:28 that we can have package sales of wine and beer for
21:20:38 off-premises consumption.
21:20:41 We are well aware of the fact that council has in
21:20:44 other wet zonings been concerned about whether or not
21:20:46 there would be any single or quart sales.
21:20:50 In a single or quart sales.
21:20:51 As a matter of fact, the only sales of alcoholic
21:20:53 beverages are off-premises couples would have to be in
21:20:58 gift basket arrangements, and/or incidental to any
21:21:04 wine tastings that may occur at the site.
21:21:10 But for those events, there would be no off-site
21:21:14 package sales of any beer or wine.
21:21:18 As you will recall, one of the initial concerns were
21:21:20 that everybody was very concerned that there could be
21:21:22 package sales of conventional alcohol, given the fact
21:21:26 that at the salon, we are only a 2(COP).
21:21:30 We can't sell alcohol.
21:21:31 And at the restaurant we are going to be a 4(COP-X).
21:21:34 We can't do package sales.
21:21:36 So the only package sales that could exist now is the
21:21:40 package sales in the salon and day spa, and only to
21:21:44 the extent as I have stipulated that we would agree to
21:21:49 I think you are going to see that all of the
21:21:56 neighborhood associations are in support of this.
21:21:59 And this is something that has been arrived at in
21:22:02 discussion was the neighborhood association.
21:22:04 I'd like to save any further comments for any
21:22:08 But we respectfully request that you grant this, this
21:22:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: See if anybody is opposed.
21:22:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there anyone in the audience who
21:22:31 opposes this petition?
21:22:32 Come forward.
21:22:33 If you are in opposition.
21:22:35 >>> There are a few gray areas here.
21:22:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
21:22:40 Come on down.
21:22:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We were looking for black and
21:22:49 >>> It's never that easy.
21:22:51 >> Randy Barron, 217 west Comanche Avenue.
21:22:55 I am not here representing the association.
21:22:59 Although I will mention that the association did
21:23:00 approve unanimously most of what was outlined by the
21:23:06 One thing that was left out by petitioner, I think was
21:23:09 hours of operation on the salon, which I believe would
21:23:11 be 10 and 12 but you could confirm that with the
21:23:16 petitioner after this.
21:23:19 When I was here last time, I was concerned with the
21:23:21 hours of operation and with the extent of the package
21:23:25 I think they have been narrowly defined and I am okay
21:23:28 with those.
21:23:29 If there's a concern about the 1:00 on weekends, I
21:23:34 would like to see some of the Heights people to
21:23:40 attract the after-hours crowd, for instance, if they
21:23:43 are out at 11:00 they aren't going to have to come to
21:23:47 a restaurant and order and eat within a half hour so
21:23:49 I'm okay with the 1:00 on the weekends.
21:23:53 So I am in support.
21:23:55 I do want to make sure that the hours of operation are
21:23:58 specific to -- also on the bungalow -- excuse me, on
21:24:02 the salon but I believe ten during the week and twelve
21:24:07 on the weekends, Friday and Saturday.
21:24:11 And also this idea of personal services as a use as
21:24:16 long as it's restricted to the gift baskets and to the
21:24:19 sales of the bottles of wine for wine tasting I'm okay
21:24:23 with that also.
21:24:24 With those conditions I am in support.
21:24:26 Thank you.
21:24:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for waiting all this
21:24:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm assuming you are in support, the
21:24:34 rest of you here?
21:24:35 And --
21:24:40 >>> My name is Eric Holsinger, I live at 5202 north
21:24:45 I have been sworn.
21:24:45 My property is directly adjacent to north and to the
21:24:48 east of the parking lot in bungalow bistro.
21:24:52 Although the grahams have made concessions to the
21:24:56 original petition I still prefer the Orlando zoning
21:25:00 stated by councilman Dingfelder on June 5th, the
21:25:03 reason being that my home is in such --
21:25:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Refresh my memory on what I said.
21:25:09 I should know.
21:25:10 >>> 2(COP-R) for the bistro only, in a amplified music
21:25:15 outdoors, 11 weekdays, midnight, weekends.
21:25:22 And the reason I say that is because of the close
21:25:28 proximity of my house to the parking lot and their
21:25:31 open-air deck.
21:25:33 I believe the zoning proposed by councilman Dingfelder
21:25:36 will create a mutually beneficial relationship between
21:25:39 my property and the petitioner, in particularly the
21:25:43 wet zoning for the bistro only.
21:25:46 They don't have adequate parking for one business
21:25:49 there -- for wine business there much less adding a
21:25:53 second one.
21:25:53 And the overflow will most assuredly come up Freirson
21:25:57 as it already does, and even closer to our homes.
21:26:05 Even considering their customers are now parking in
21:26:07 design's parking lot, and you have a letter from the
21:26:12 owner that opposes the zoning outright, and if the
21:26:19 design starts to enforce no parking there, it's going
21:26:26 amplify the problem.
21:26:27 The suggested hours, the noise from the parking and
21:26:32 the deck I think are just going to have to be a fact
21:26:34 of life but limiting those hours to 12 will make it at
21:26:37 least more bearable.
21:26:39 And I contend that finance Bern's, Caetano's, wine
21:26:46 exchange, if they can all be viable businesses and
21:26:48 close at eleven or earlier there's in a reason that
21:26:50 the bungalow bistro can't do likewise.
21:26:54 And I don't understand how they can claim that the
21:26:57 additional hours are absolutely necessary to the
21:27:00 liability of -- viability of their business when they
21:27:04 previously closed at ten.
21:27:05 I understand now they close at eleven.
21:27:07 But midnight gives them an additional hour.
21:27:10 So that aspect of it just doesn't make any sense to
21:27:14 So if they want to compare their hours to those at
21:27:16 bars and grills, sports bars and the like, I think
21:27:20 they shouldn't be masquerading as a bistro.
21:27:23 It's well established that alcohol impairs judgment
21:27:26 and lowers inhibitions.
21:27:28 Later hours and more liberal zoning will only
21:27:30 encourage drinking and increase undesirable side
21:27:33 effect to the made neighbors just as it has in South
21:27:37 Rather than trying to transform Seminole Heights, I
21:27:39 would suggest to people that want extended hours make
21:27:43 use of the abundant choices that are available in late
21:27:47 night entertainment districts now.
21:27:50 Ybor is less than ten minutes and four miles away from
21:27:53 my house.
21:27:55 I fully support commercial redevelopment in Seminole
21:27:57 Heights, but not to the detriment of the neighbors.
21:28:02 I think it would be the wise decision to encourage
21:28:05 business that is consistent and compatible.
21:28:07 More than any other event, the tour of homes in our
21:28:11 historic district is our biggest draw to the area.
21:28:14 The historic home as mine is are Seminole Heights'
21:28:19 greatest assets.
21:28:20 We should protect them rather than erode away their
21:28:24 Incidentally, my home was built in 1913, one of the
21:28:28 first in the area.
21:28:30 And it was there some 90 years before the Grahams
21:28:35 relocated their structures to their current location.
21:28:37 Thank you.
21:28:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
21:28:44 >>> Erica McCandles.
21:28:49 I reside at 5120 north Suwannee Avenue.
21:28:53 My home is directly behind the bungalow bistro.
21:28:56 And I have a couple things.
21:29:01 Eric hit most of the things.
21:29:02 We do have an issue with the parking, especially the
21:29:06 special events that, you know, celebrations like New
21:29:10 Year's Eve, that sort of thing, definitely is going to
21:29:14 be an overflow of parking.
21:29:17 And I want to know, everybody knows you have to spend
21:29:21 money to make money.
21:29:22 So why is she trying to go for a 4(COP-X) instead of a
21:29:26 4(COP-R) where she will be? Thirdly she has a ref top
21:29:32 deck that is not permitted, and I'm sure they will
21:29:35 have music up there, and I was just wondering if she
21:29:40 could -- as soon as the music shuts down, the people
21:29:43 that are out there enjoying conversation, drinks,
21:29:48 cigarettes, that once the music shuts down that the
21:29:51 people need to exit the rooftop deck and go down into
21:29:54 the rest of the restaurant as far as the noise
21:29:58 I am in favor of bringing new business development to
21:30:01 the neighborhood for sure, but with the opportunity to
21:30:05 plan instead of react.
21:30:07 And I think that would be the most beneficial things
21:30:10 for us to do is to go ahead and set some standards and
21:30:13 guidelines for other prospects businesses to come in
21:30:18 our area that they already know the guidelines, and
21:30:22 there's nothing that they can bend.
21:30:25 Thank you for your time.
21:30:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
21:30:32 >>> My name is Ingrid Smith.
21:30:36 Yes, I have been sworn.
21:30:37 I reside at 5605 north Suwannee Avenue which is
21:30:41 parallel to Florida Avenue.
21:30:43 One block off.
21:30:44 And I'm grateful for the concerns you all expressed at
21:30:48 the last City Council because I think it created a
21:30:51 good opportunity to compromise.
21:30:53 And I agree with Randy, there's been a lot of
21:30:57 compromise, actually close to what I had originally
21:31:01 And I agree with the top deck issue.
21:31:07 I believe we have a curfew where they closed that down
21:31:10 early, prior to the business, and the operating hours.
21:31:14 And with the elevation of the deck is pretty much
21:31:20 right at bedroom level.
21:31:23 The house is affected.
21:31:25 I'm on the other side of Hillsborough so I am not
21:31:27 impacted but it's easy to see where the two of them
21:31:29 are there.
21:31:30 So that might be a way to work with the 1 a.m. hours,
21:31:34 if they could have an earlier curfew on the deck and
21:31:38 maybe make the 1 a.m. for the interior only.
21:31:45 I'm pretty much in agreement and comfortable with what
21:31:48 was agreed with the bistro.
21:31:50 The salon I'm still not too sure about wet zoning.
21:31:56 And I understand they put a lot of restrictions on it,
21:32:01 special services in other areas, but I do have
21:32:06 concerns about than the necessity for the salon being
21:32:10 wet zoned.
21:32:12 The only other thing is that we are coming along,
21:32:15 things are going well, and it's nice to see that we
21:32:18 are getting neighborhood friendly businesses.
21:32:20 I don't think we have as many opportunities to
21:32:27 squander like Hyde Park and South Tampa so we have to
21:32:30 be careful how we rezone.
21:32:31 Yes, it would be nice to see a plan for that
21:32:35 commercial corridor to know this is not going to be a
21:32:41 3 a.m. late-night spot, but more in meeting with a
21:32:46 neighborhood friendly aspect of it.
21:32:50 For the most part I'm comfortable with the hours,
21:32:52 although I would probably like to see a little bit
21:32:54 earlier during the weeknights.
21:32:57 Just because it takes longer for the restaurant to
21:33:00 empty out with any restaurant.
21:33:02 So if they could close a little before midnight.
21:33:05 That way, some of the parking lot chatter will be done
21:33:08 by midnight.
21:33:10 And I want to thank you all for your assistance, and I
21:33:16 think that went a long way towards getting us closer
21:33:19 together on the hours and on the wet zoning.
21:33:25 I still have question marks on it.
21:33:29 So I want to thank you for the time you all put in.
21:33:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Those who are in support and want to
21:33:35 signify by raising your hand, in support of this
21:33:39 Are you in support, sir?
21:33:40 >>> In a.
21:33:41 Well, I'm concerned, gray.
21:33:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, gray, green, blue.
21:33:49 >> Michael McCandles, Suwannee Avenue.
21:33:55 The one thing I wanted to add onto my wife's comments
21:33:58 was I too am concerned about parking issues.
21:34:01 I don't know if we were late enough, but way do want
21:34:04 to make a point of is Elizabeth has made a lot of
21:34:11 effort, has come to a lot of compromises, with us in
21:34:13 mind, we may not agree entirely with what they are,
21:34:16 and that's for you all to decide, but I want to make
21:34:19 sure that, again, going forward, anybody coming into
21:34:23 our neighborhood realizes that this is the standard
21:34:27 that's set, and there's so many times that we hear it
21:34:29 in our, you know, the place over -- sangrias.
21:34:40 Sangrias, it goes on and on and I want to make sure
21:34:45 that not only is it a standard set for our
21:34:48 neighborhood but it's a standard set, so because of
21:34:50 all of the negotiation and the talks and everything
21:34:54 that's gone on with her, that she isn't handcuffed in
21:34:57 the future for her business, that those precedents are
21:35:01 used against her so I would like to make that, and I
21:35:04 appreciate that.
21:35:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
21:35:07 >>> 112 Westin street.
21:35:19 I have been sworn in.
21:35:20 I want to comment on what he said about making a
21:35:22 standard for our community.
21:35:23 To bring businesses there, they have to be able to
21:35:25 compete with what's already there.
21:35:27 I mean, you go down Florida Avenue, and it's nothing
21:35:29 but car dealership after car dealership.
21:35:32 We would love to have the retail, the restaurants in
21:35:35 there, but they have to be able to compete.
21:35:37 Many compete with the standards that have already been
21:35:40 You know, it's hard for a person to invest their time
21:35:43 and money in a restaurant if they don't have the same
21:35:45 hours as down the street.
21:35:48 Thank you.
21:35:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
21:35:50 Yes, sir.
21:35:56 Petitioner, rebuttal, five minutes.
21:35:58 >>> With respect to the hours that Mr. Barron
21:36:03 testified to, yes, I overlooked, that is an
21:36:06 understanding as far as the salon and day spa were
21:36:13 Sundays would be -- Sunday through Thursday ten,
21:36:17 Friday through Saturday mid nature.
21:36:19 I thought I put it on the record but maybe I didn't.
21:36:25 I'm at a little bit of a loss, because we met with Mr.
21:36:29 Holsinger and tried to meet with the McCandles.
21:36:34 Apparently they were out of town.
21:36:36 We got an e-mail, and they are telling us in the
21:36:38 e-mail, we would like it if you would completely close
21:36:41 an hour before your restaurant closes.
21:36:43 For example, Sunday through Thursday, we would
21:36:45 appreciate if the music as well as the people would
21:36:47 exit the deck at 11.
21:36:49 We are telling you we are going to cut the music off
21:36:51 at 10, not at 11.
21:36:53 We are telling you 10.
21:36:54 They come back, and they tell me on Friday and
21:36:56 Saturday, we would appreciate it if you stopped the
21:36:58 music at 12.
21:37:00 We are telling them we are going to close at 1.
21:37:02 We'll cut it at 11.
21:37:04 We are cutting it off two hours before we shut the
21:37:10 business down, which is even earlier than what they
21:37:13 e-mailed us and told us today.
21:37:22 4(COP-R) versus 4(COP-X).
21:37:25 Under either one of those zonings, I cannot do package
21:37:29 The only difference between those two is whether or
21:37:32 not I got the 51/49%.
21:37:35 I'm telling you I'm going to be incidental.
21:37:38 I'm telling you, I have to be a restaurant.
21:37:40 Can't serve alcoholic beverages there unless I'm a
21:37:43 So why am I not asking for an R?
21:37:45 Because my concern is I'm going to start selling
21:37:48 And when I start selling wines, I may skew that 51-49.
21:37:53 The next thing I know I have got a reporting problem
21:37:55 with the City of Tampa.
21:37:56 But I'm telling you, I have to be a restaurant.
21:38:00 I can't be anything other than a restaurant at that
21:38:02 bistro location when you are giving me the 4(COP-X).
21:38:06 It's the only thing I can be.
21:38:08 If I'm not a restaurant -- yeah.
21:38:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Continue, sir.
21:38:14 >>> I thought he wanted to ask me a question.
21:38:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Continue, though.
21:38:17 I'm chairing the meeting.
21:38:21 >>> We have sat and we have tried to meet what we
21:38:24 thought were there demands.
21:38:26 I think that one demand that's left out there is an
21:38:31 hour that's floating.
21:38:33 We close at eleven, do bee close at 12 or do we close
21:38:36 at one?
21:38:37 That seems to be the biggest floating item that's out
21:38:39 there. So I'm looking for any questions that you
21:38:41 might have but we would request that you approve the
21:38:44 4(COP-X) as to the bistro and the 2(COP) as to the
21:38:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me hear from legal then councilman
21:38:53 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
21:38:55 I just want to make council aware that staff and legal
21:38:57 department have just heard these conditions for the
21:38:59 first time tonight.
21:39:00 We don't have a copy of it and we haven't had a
21:39:02 thorough opportunity to review them for enforceability
21:39:05 There are some problems such as the national holiday.
21:39:08 I don't know what that means.
21:39:09 Is that Easter?
21:39:11 We need -- federal holiday?
21:39:14 We need more information on that.
21:39:15 Also, I'm not very sure what a posted wine or beer
21:39:20 tasting is. I'm saying that to your edification.
21:39:24 Staff has not had a thorough opportunity to review so
21:39:27 we want to make sure that you are aware of that.
21:39:31 >>> Mr. Chairman, if I may one second. This language
21:39:35 that I read out to you was language that we got on the
21:39:39 phone and spoke with Cathy Coyle, and she was the one
21:39:42 that suggested that we say alcoholic sales will always
21:39:46 be incidental to, and she gave us that language when
21:39:50 we spoke to Cathy.
21:39:54 >>> On that one condition that is a direct statement.
21:39:57 We did speak to that.
21:39:58 On the other ones rattled off we did not speak in
21:40:01 depth on all those conditions.
21:40:02 We spoke on the ones related to the use which in turn
21:40:05 would be related to zonings, on some of the other
21:40:08 issues presented to you this evening as conditions.
21:40:10 Staff did not.
21:40:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So your recommendation then legal is
21:40:16 we need to continue so that things can be worked out?
21:40:20 >>> I think this hearing does need to be continued to
21:40:23 allow staff and legal department to have an
21:40:24 opportunity to give you a real recommendation on
21:40:26 whether these conditions are enforceable.
21:40:29 If you would like -- maybe you don't want any of these
21:40:31 conditions anyway, in which case it's moot.
21:40:33 But if you do, then that would be my recommendation.
21:40:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, do we want to -- do we want to
21:40:41 close or do we want to close the public hearing and
21:40:44 just work out those conditions?
21:40:45 How do we want to move with this?
21:40:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, it would be my
21:40:50 recommendation, because there are neighborhood
21:40:52 concerns, what the legal department may bring back may
21:41:00 have an impact that may cause additional public
21:41:04 If the public wishes to know that then I would suggest
21:41:08 If daytime wishes to set it for a daytime or nighttime
21:41:12 second reading, then otherwise it could choose to go
21:41:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, clarity on that
21:41:19 Then you can only speak to the issues that are brought
21:41:21 up on behalf of what the legal department presents,
21:41:23 not the whole hearing again?
21:41:26 >> Okay.
21:41:27 Councilman Dingfelder.
21:41:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
21:41:29 Let's speak to the 4(COP-X) versus the 4(COP-R).
21:41:33 Rebecca, I see the 4(COP-X) incidental to a
21:41:41 How do you define a restaurant?
21:41:44 >>> It's defined in the zoning code and it is in fact
21:41:47 what you did with sangrias and another one between
21:41:53 sangria's and now, I can't recall.
21:41:55 But you did it two other times in recent history with
21:41:58 the same reasons, the owner of sangria's came up and
21:42:01 said I am going operate this as a restaurant.
21:42:03 Staff said we have a legally definable definition of
21:42:06 restaurant that we feel that we could enforce if they
21:42:09 weren't operating as a restaurant, but you need to be
21:42:11 aware that there are in a reporting requirements.
21:42:14 They will not have the twice a year having to sign an
21:42:16 affidavit that they have over 51% of sales.
21:42:19 That's the difference between the X, having to be
21:42:23 incidental to the restaurant, and the full R.
21:42:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And again I'm not speaking to these
21:42:29 current owners, I'm speaking 30 years from now.
21:42:33 If you serve a slice of pizza and you have got a big
21:42:37 giant bar like MacDinton's or something like that, is
21:42:41 that a restaurant?
21:42:42 >>REBECCA KERT: I am going to have staff look up the
21:42:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's one of the benefits of going
21:42:51 to a (COP-R) or -- 2(COP-R) or 4(COP-R), with the R
21:42:58 designation, at least you have some balance of
21:43:01 restaurant drinks, restaurant drinks, as opposed to
21:43:05 bar with a little bit of food.
21:43:13 And I'm not saying that's the intent of these folks at
21:43:17 Nobody needs to get me wrong on that.
21:43:18 >>> The definition of restaurant is per code is an
21:43:22 establishment whose principal business is the sale of
21:43:25 food, frozen desserts to the customer, design or
21:43:30 principal method of operation includes one or both of
21:43:33 the following.
21:43:34 Customers normally provided with an individual menu or
21:43:36 served their foods, frozen desserts by restaurant
21:43:39 employee at the same counter or table which the items
21:43:42 are consumed or cafeteria style operation as provided
21:43:44 where foods, frozen desserts are consumed within the
21:43:48 restaurant structure.
21:43:48 >> Pretty good definition, I mean in terms of
21:43:54 enforceability, that a restaurant is a restaurant.
21:43:55 >> And could not ab bar.
21:43:57 >> And should not be a bar.
21:43:59 All right.
21:43:59 I'm okay with that.
21:44:01 One thing I had a concern about was the language.
21:44:05 I think we all got e-mails from Old Seminole Heights
21:44:08 neighborhood association, from Susan long, that's
21:44:11 dated the 17th.
21:44:15 Is that today?
21:44:17 6:35 in the morning.
21:44:19 Susan was up early.
21:44:22 But anyway, she's describing some of the conditions
21:44:25 that she thinks she worked out with you, Mr. Diaz, and
21:44:29 it says in a exterior entertainment beginning two
21:44:32 hours prior to closing.
21:44:33 I think that's a nice condition.
21:44:34 But I think what I heard from the neighbors is that
21:44:37 they would rather not hear people out there at all,
21:44:42 not just entertainment, but, you know, like the
21:44:45 gentleman said, you have got drinking, you have got
21:44:48 eating, drinking, you know, going on later into the
21:44:52 evening, it's loud and noisy and we all have
21:44:57 experienced that all over town.
21:44:58 So, you know, I like that condition at two hours
21:45:01 earlier cut-off.
21:45:02 But I think somebody mentioned about the fly, which I
21:45:05 think we did say that in the fly downtown, I think we
21:45:09 tell them to get off that deck at a certain time.
21:45:13 Not just entertainment, life music.
21:45:15 So I would be amenable to that.
21:45:18 And the other thing that bothers me is the weekday
21:45:21 activity till mid nature.
21:45:24 I mean, you have got families and children and all
21:45:29 sorts of things on the backside, immediately abutting
21:45:32 this whole thing.
21:45:33 And theoretically on a Thursday night you can run till
21:45:38 Is that the standard this neighborhood wants?
21:45:40 Even the proponents out there?
21:45:42 Is that what you want, till mid nature?
21:45:44 >>> Diaz: Mr. Dingfelder, that's what they -- I mean,
21:45:52 we had meetings on this.
21:45:53 This is what they want.
21:45:54 I understand this may not be what you want, but this
21:45:58 is what the neighborhood wants.
21:45:59 We tried to pad our restrictions after -- pattern our
21:46:05 restrictions after this language.
21:46:06 When I spoke women, this they said, look, there's not
21:46:09 legally definable words so we can't use like this or
21:46:12 that that's --
21:46:13 >> I saw a mixed review. There was a lot of yeses but
21:46:16 the three families that are immediately abutting this
21:46:18 property were not saying yes.
21:46:21 On midnight, on a weekday.
21:46:24 And if I was -- I think I saw three families.
21:46:29 Three people, maybe one of them is a couple.
21:46:31 All right.
21:46:32 But if I was living immediately adjacent, I wouldn't
21:46:34 want anything operating 4(COP) immediately abutting my
21:46:39 house on a weekday till mid nature.
21:46:42 Because by the time that people stagger out to their
21:46:45 cars and slam their doors it's 12:30.
21:46:47 Just doesn't seem fair to me.
21:46:55 >>GWEN MILLER: The majority.
21:46:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But some of them might live five
21:47:00 miles away.
21:47:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, okay, it's ten minutes to
21:47:03 We need to move here.
21:47:04 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to point out.
21:47:08 It's funny because earlier today we voted for on a
21:47:14 first reading to give wet zoning to another hair
21:47:18 salon, and we may be starting a precedent.
21:47:27 We may have Joseph in here soon.
21:47:37 [ Laughter ]
21:47:38 I'm not just joking.
21:47:39 I think it's kind of a weird thing to do to start
21:47:45 giving wet zonings to specialty services, or retail.
21:47:53 Then I'm looking at this and it's like, well, you can
21:47:55 have -- it can be an art gallery, or it could be --
21:48:01 I'm just not convinced that a day spa needs to have a
21:48:06 wet zoning.
21:48:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
21:48:13 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I'm in the hair salon business
21:48:16 and I'm not against this petition, okay?
21:48:18 But people ask me, why don't you serve wine?
21:48:21 I get some woman there who is an alcoholic and hasn't
21:48:24 drunk and had a beer or anything in a long time, she
21:48:27 comes and has a little glass of wine, goes out and has
21:48:30 an accident, I'm in trouble.
21:48:33 So that's why I don't serve.
21:48:35 I have some in my office if I want it.
21:48:37 [ Laughter ]
21:48:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
21:48:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
21:48:46 I think we are very close in terms of resolving this.
21:48:49 But I just want to say, having been around a long time
21:48:53 of a -- a 4(COP-R) which requires this, it is a pain
21:48:59 in the neck to keep track of what your percentage is.
21:49:01 But in the future, I really don't think the
21:49:03 neighborhood wants a bar.
21:49:05 I think they want a restaurant.
21:49:06 And the R means that it stays a restaurant.
21:49:09 And I think it's a very important distinction.
21:49:13 So I think we should continue this to allow -- have we
21:49:20 closed the public hearing?
21:49:21 >> No.
21:49:21 >> Okay.
21:49:25 Then I would like to make a motion that we continue
21:49:28 this for two weeks to give the legal department -- we
21:49:31 have an evening meeting in two weeks?
21:49:35 >>GWEN MILLER: No.
21:49:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
21:49:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You were supposed to speak while
21:49:43 the audience --
21:49:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, in a, I asked for anybody for.
21:49:54 Let me finish.
21:49:55 I said anyone in opposition.
21:49:56 Anyone else want to say anything, red, blue, green?
21:49:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If you said it, they didn't
21:50:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
21:50:07 Well, the problem is that he just gave rebuttal.
21:50:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So we are not going to end this
21:50:13 I would like to let these people who haven't spoken
21:50:15 speak, if we could.
21:50:19 We have been wait -- I mean, they have been waiting
21:50:21 here all this time.
21:50:26 >>> Elizabeth Kim.
21:50:37 I work at beautiful sun and day spa.
21:50:44 I would like to show you this magazine.
21:50:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ma'am, are you the petitioner?
21:50:53 >> I don't know what I'm considered.
21:50:54 My husband owns this.
21:51:02 >> She's not technically the petitioner.
21:51:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You need to say it on the record.
21:51:06 Who filed the petition?
21:51:07 >>> Diaz: It was her husband who is the sole owner of
21:51:14 the property.
21:51:15 She is not technically the petitioner.
21:51:18 >>> Elizabeth Graham.
21:51:20 And I have been sworn in.
21:51:22 This is the new American spa magazine that comes out.
21:51:28 And this is the recent couple months issue.
21:51:34 And there is a three-page article in this newspaper,
21:51:42 in this, that I would be happy to give each one of you
21:51:47 I am interested in offering cocktail, beer, wine in my
21:51:51 day spa.
21:51:51 I think the clients would really welcome the idea of
21:51:54 becoming -- really welcome the idea.
21:52:02 I think having Margaritas, manicures, having it on
21:52:08 special occasions, wedding parties, do I need a liquor
21:52:15 Dear Anita, short and sweet, the answer, if you are
21:52:17 selling alcoholic beverages, you need a liquor
21:52:20 license, plain and simple.
21:52:22 It goes on within these three pages to discuss that
21:52:26 today's day spa is not about cutting hair only.
21:52:29 It's about bachelor receipt parties, it's about
21:52:33 You know, where women want to have champagne when they
21:52:40 experience this.
21:52:44 It is a new trend around America.
21:52:50 I strongly believe that it's not just hair salon
21:53:01 anymore, it's a social gathering.
21:53:02 Also, too, I mean, there's one on Davis Island that is
21:53:07 a color salon and heart spa and it has a martini bar
21:53:14 in it.
21:53:17 I would like to also state that I feel as if the
21:53:23 bungalow bistro and Michael Graham has worked to --
21:53:29 with the neighbors.
21:53:31 People can also walk to the neighborhood.
21:53:34 He's discussed putting a bike rack up because people
21:53:38 want to bake to the neighborhood.
21:53:40 He supports 17 jobs for people and families.
21:53:45 He supports a local economy, buying his produce and
21:53:50 his food.
21:53:53 And the majority of the neighbors that want it -- this
21:54:06 actually -- it's for the survival of a business.
21:54:10 I believe that it is necessary -- not necessary.
21:54:15 Maybe that's not appropriate because I get nervous
21:54:17 when I get up here.
21:54:18 But I think that it's a survival for the neighborhood
21:54:24 to have a better business district.
21:54:27 If we put conditions on what buildings look like in
21:54:32 that historical, not to mention that he moved these
21:54:34 two buildings, and right from the beginning he was
21:54:38 conscientious of the placement of them because of
21:54:40 noise, so he moved them all the way to the front of
21:54:43 the building.
21:54:45 (Bell sounds).
21:54:47 Thank you.
21:54:48 I am in total support.
21:54:53 >>> Teresa Wysochi, property owner it of the property
21:55:02 at 1415 north Swann Avenue right behind and I'm in
21:55:07 100% support of this.
21:55:09 Number one, she has done everything to pleas any
21:55:13 neighbor and she always is -- that's one of the
21:55:16 reasons why she has changed her hours to comply with
21:55:18 the guests, what they would like, what they prefer,
21:55:22 what you have to do to keep a business going.
21:55:28 I have been to salons in California, in New York, Irv
21:55:31 in to salons in Costa Rica, Irv to salons in the
21:55:36 Dominican Republic.
21:55:36 They all serve wine and drinks, and they also sell.
21:55:41 Parking issues, we walk there, and of course any
21:55:46 business you are going to deal with parking issues but
21:55:48 she's in support of her neighbor, and neighbors
21:55:52 support her.
21:55:53 Like I say, I have the house right there.
21:55:56 I'm just going over my notes so I could be a little
21:55:58 more clear.
21:56:01 And as far as the hours, the standard has already been
21:56:06 You have businesses within two mails that stay open
21:56:11 way later than what she's petitioning for.
21:56:13 And once again, like in the deck issue, you can't tell
21:56:18 deck people that are sitting out there, if they are
21:56:20 drinking and having a cigarette, they are not out
21:56:23 there -- you can't tell them to leave and then be
21:56:27 They are not going to want to go there again.
21:56:30 And another reason, the deck faces Hillsborough.
21:56:34 It's not facing the neighborhood.
21:56:36 So I don't really see how the sound -- I mean, it's
21:56:39 not going to be to where it's going to be so loud,
21:56:43 it's going to keep them up.
21:56:45 So I think a lot of the issues that they are rattling
21:56:49 about is unreasonable.
21:56:52 I'm 100% for it.
21:56:54 I live at 5119 Suwannee.
21:56:57 I actually own the property there.
21:56:58 And I want it.
21:57:00 I think she should get it because everything she's
21:57:02 done, she has made a tremendous issue.
21:57:05 I bought that house in 1991.
21:57:07 But what was there originally was a garage and an
21:57:11 apartment where ladies of the night used to walk that
21:57:14 street that I used to have to watch.
21:57:16 So what she's done is 1 million percent better.
21:57:21 And anything you grant this woman will be beneficial
21:57:24 to Tampa.
21:57:25 And that's all I say.
21:57:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You said you own it?
21:57:29 >>> Yes.
21:57:29 >> You don't live there anymore?
21:57:31 >> This is what happened.
21:57:33 >>: Short answer.
21:57:33 >>> Yes.
21:57:34 I had to because I'm a teacher.
21:57:36 And because of cutbacks I had to change.
21:57:40 And unfortunately I had to move.
21:57:41 But it is a property that I hopefully can move back
21:57:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Next.
21:57:51 And everybody, brevity.
21:57:53 >>> Michael Fouch, 5918 North -- Avenue.
21:57:58 I lived in Seminole Heights since 1999.
21:58:03 It's a great neighborhood, great houses but there's
21:58:05 nothing to do there.
21:58:05 There's car lots.
21:58:08 There's Kwikie Mart.
21:58:11 That's about it.
21:58:12 There really is nothing there.
21:58:16 We are told that we are close enough to Ybor City.
21:58:18 Well, I can't walk to Ybor City.
21:58:21 You want something in our neighborhood?
21:58:24 Elizabeth has been a fantastic neighbor, and I think
21:58:30 she bends over backwards for us.
21:58:33 And the if you don't give her the zoning it's really
21:58:37 going to impact the business.
21:58:38 What's going to foe go in there next?
21:58:41 It could be much worse.
21:58:42 They don't need zoning to have a pawn shop.
21:58:44 Look at the alternatives.
21:58:46 I hope you will give her a zoning.
21:58:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Next.
21:58:51 >>> Tom Wheatley, I live at 1310 West -- 33604.
21:58:58 I'm here to speak in favor of this as well.
21:59:00 Thank you very much for letting me do more than just
21:59:02 raise my hand.
21:59:03 I believe both of these establishments greatly improve
21:59:05 our community.
21:59:06 It's exactly what the community needs.
21:59:09 As Michael just said we have way too many car lots,
21:59:12 not enough place that is actually service the people
21:59:14 that live in our beautiful houses.
21:59:17 Lastly, I'm a proud member of the Tampa Bay beers
21:59:21 association, a home brewing club, the top rated club
21:59:24 in the state.
21:59:25 Elizabeth, the Grahams are trying to create something
21:59:28 that does not exist in Tampa, for folks like me who do
21:59:33 not want to go to sports pubs, do not want to go to
21:59:37 clubs where we are forced to drink substandard beers
21:59:40 and eat substandard fried food.
21:59:43 And this is a big usual you for me because I believe
21:59:45 that this business is going to be very unique and
21:59:47 profitable by serving the community's needs.
21:59:50 We are looking for places that are upscale, that are
21:59:52 not going to be attracting college kids, that are
21:59:55 going to be loud and things like that.
21:59:57 And it's going to be attracting the people that live
21:59:59 in this community, folks like myself, who would like
22:00:02 to be able to go out with my wife and have a very good
22:00:05 dinner, and enjoy a very nice beer with it or glass of
22:00:09 This is not -- my conversations with the owners, this
22:00:13 is not going to be a place that's going to be
22:00:15 attracting, you know, wild revellers in the middle of
22:00:18 the night. This is a place that's going to attract
22:00:20 younger professionals like myself to enjoy dinner, and
22:00:23 my wife works till 8:00 at progressive insurance, and
22:00:26 she has to drive back.
22:00:27 She doesn't get home till 8:30.
22:00:29 Sometimes we don't get out to eat, in today's society,
22:00:32 until after 9:00.
22:00:33 So we do need to have some extended hours just in the
22:00:36 world that we live in.
22:00:38 And we do not want to be relegated to going to place
22:00:40 that is don't meet our culinary needs.
22:00:43 And I'm very proud of the fact that I'm a home brewer,
22:00:46 I love craft beer and I love freight fad to pair it
22:00:50 with and we don't have enough of that in Tampa.
22:00:52 It's very exciting it's coming very close to my house,
22:00:56 or a short cab ride if need be if parking is a
22:00:58 problem, and I think we do need a long-term vision for
22:01:01 Florida Avenue that gets us away from the used car
22:01:05 I believe we should create a two-lane on-street
22:01:08 parking to attract businesses just like this to our
22:01:12 I would love to see that on the agenda of this
22:01:15 The interstate can move people really fast.
22:01:17 If we want businesses to come to our neighborhood and
22:01:20 stay and service our needs in the community so we
22:01:22 don't have to drive, we can reduce our carbon
22:01:27 footprint but we have to make that a priority for our
22:01:29 Grahams are making that a priority and I'm very proud
22:01:32 of them, very proud to say that this is something
22:01:34 that's happening in my neighborhood.
22:01:36 And thank you very much for hearing me this late at
22:01:39 I know we are all very tired.
22:01:41 Thank you all for your service.
22:01:42 This is one of the most distinguished councils that
22:01:44 the City of Tampa had in a long time.
22:01:47 Thank you.
22:01:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
22:01:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I like that last comment.
22:01:59 >> My name is Ben Mills.
22:02:03 And I agree with everything that Tom said.
22:02:06 There's a couple of issues occurring in Seminole
22:02:08 One of the things is the difference between historic
22:02:13 and old.
22:02:16 Florida is not historic.
22:02:17 It's old.
22:02:20 It has these old car lots.
22:02:22 It has dollar stores.
22:02:23 And it's pawn shops.
22:02:25 And it's these dreadful, although I suppose necessary
22:02:30 to some degree, these periods that are not conducive
22:02:34 to neighborhoods.
22:02:36 Seminole Heights is not Ybor City nor will it ever be
22:02:39 Ybor City.
22:02:39 Ybor City is a large party district.
22:02:41 Seminole Heights is a district of people who live,
22:02:43 young professionals, older families, and places to go
22:02:48 and eat, places where they can be.
22:02:50 We are not out there, we are not revellers, we are not
22:02:52 out there throwing down the drinks and leaving a bar
22:02:55 toss ago beer washing it crash in the parking
22:02:58 We are looking for someplace nice to go and eat and
22:03:00 having something nice to drink with our food.
22:03:06 Just like this restaurant is right now.
22:03:07 I work late.
22:03:08 I want to get out.
22:03:09 I have no place to eat.
22:03:12 Sure, there's a Denny's or something.
22:03:16 But man is not fueled by cheap burgers alone.
22:03:18 You want someplace nice to go with your family.
22:03:21 And that's really what I want to have.
22:03:23 And I think most people in Seminole Heights need a
22:03:26 We want someplace we can walk to.
22:03:28 Sure, there's Ybor City.
22:03:30 And that's not a good walk from Seminole Heights.
22:03:33 You know, I can walk to the bistro.
22:03:37 Thank you.
22:03:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
22:03:43 >> I promise I will be brief.
22:03:47 I worked here a lot of years and I did a lot of wet
22:03:50 zonings while I was here.
22:03:51 And if I didn't like -- you might not what I wanted
22:03:56 you knew about it one way or the other.
22:03:57 I can tell you this is the real deal and she's going
22:03:59 to do a good job and she's going to do exactly what
22:04:02 she says she's going to do, and the neighborhood is
22:04:04 going to be very proud of it.
22:04:05 >> Name and address, Pete Cowell?
22:04:10 >>PETE COWELL: 3304 Wyoming circle, Tampa, Florida.
22:04:16 But, yes, it's a good restaurant.
22:04:19 It's a good design.
22:04:21 I watched her start on the day spa when I was still
22:04:26 working here dealing with the preservation issues,
22:04:28 dealing with the parking issues.
22:04:29 We got them all worked out.
22:04:31 She worked out everything she possibly could, all the
22:04:37 way up and down the line.
22:04:38 You know, this is the end of the road.
22:04:40 This is the last stop.
22:04:42 And if I didn't think it was good, I wouldn't be here
22:04:44 to support it.
22:04:45 And I do.
22:04:47 Thank you.
22:04:52 >>> Stone, 807 west Braddock street.
22:04:55 Good evening.
22:04:56 I am 100% in support of what the Grahams are trying to
22:05:00 accomplish tonight.
22:05:01 I am not going to repeat what everybody else already
22:05:04 You heard enough.
22:05:05 This is what the neighborhood wants, it's what the
22:05:07 neighborhood should have.
22:05:09 Let's make it happen.
22:05:10 Thank you.
22:05:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
22:05:11 Thank you.
22:05:12 >> Becky Rubright. I live at 4203 north Central
22:05:18 Less than a mile from the bistro and day spa.
22:05:25 I am not going to be quite as brief as he was but I
22:05:27 would ask you to consider the fact that we are dying
22:05:32 over here to tell you why we are in support of this
22:05:34 and the people that are against it are, although very
22:05:37 next door neighbors, and I can respect their
22:05:39 positions, but at the same time I think that their
22:05:41 objection to it partly comes from a fear that you are
22:05:45 going to have people staggering out and you are going
22:05:47 to have too much noise, but they have already made
22:05:51 compromises so the noises aren't too loud, and I think
22:05:54 they are underestimating how much this is going to be
22:05:57 patronized by people who are in the community, people
22:05:59 who just want to go out and have a nice drink.
22:06:01 It might be mid nature when I go home but I guarantee
22:06:04 I am not going to be staggering out.
22:06:06 The fact that you have this many people out here
22:06:09 trying to support Elizabeth and Michael's endeavor is
22:06:15 also a testament to how community oriented and
22:06:19 involved it has been.
22:06:20 We all want to see Seminole Heights grow and to put
22:06:22 some kind of restrictions on the bistro, I think there
22:06:25 are probably -- hopefully we get other businesses in
22:06:28 the area, and they'll see how this went, they don't
22:06:33 want to see that it's a huge fight to make this happen
22:06:35 for them.
22:06:36 They want to see a community that's open and accepting
22:06:38 of these types of businesses.
22:06:40 And so even though if you have objections, have
22:06:43 reasonable objections, that the people who are
22:06:46 personally going to feel it, if it gets out of
22:06:49 control, so maybe New Year's is going to be
22:06:51 uncomfortable and maybe Thanksgiving is going to be
22:06:54 uncomfortable but by and large this is going to be a
22:06:56 benefit it to the community.
22:07:02 I have been to day spas that have wine, not here in
22:07:05 Florida, but in California and Maine and the idea is
22:07:08 not so strange.
22:07:09 Thank you very much.
22:07:14 >>> Randall, 605 west -- I'm in support, full support
22:07:19 of the Grahams, and what they are trying to do.
22:07:22 And I don't know if it's been stressed at all, but
22:07:25 time is of the essence.
22:07:27 They are squeaking by.
22:07:29 It's getting desperate.
22:07:32 One of the only ways you can make money is with
22:07:34 alcohol sales.
22:07:35 With the price of food going up and up and the cost of
22:07:39 utilities, and paying your health, it's practically
22:07:42 the only way you can survive.
22:07:44 So I think it's very important that the usual you is
22:07:48 resolved quickly so that they can continue their
22:07:53 They have so many positives, preserving historic
22:07:57 buildings, and employing local Tampa people who are
22:08:02 living paycheck to paycheck and supporting families,
22:08:07 themselves, you know, investing their entire savings,
22:08:10 and mortgaging to the hilt.
22:08:15 I would have to say that, you know, a variety majority
22:08:19 of the neighborhood is looking forward to them being
22:08:21 able to serve alcohol and being successful, because
22:08:25 the sad fact is that it's in a guarantee but it will
22:08:28 at least help them survive.
22:08:32 And I have to say that their business is very
22:08:40 important to our neighborhood, gives us some sort of,
22:08:43 you know, variety, and enhancement, and I fully, you
22:08:49 know, support them, and I know the majority does, and
22:08:53 as far as the parking, I'm wondering if a sign could
22:08:56 be put up no parking here after a certain time.
22:08:59 I have seen a million parking signs.
22:09:01 Why not another one?
22:09:03 And businesses nearby that close early include the
22:09:06 post office.
22:09:07 Probably people would park there. I think a lot of
22:09:09 people in the neighborhood want to walk.
22:09:11 You know, you are not using your car, you are not
22:09:13 adding to traffic or pollution, you know.
22:09:17 There are two great businesses you can walk to.
22:09:19 I'm in support.
22:09:21 Thank you very much.
22:09:23 >>> I'm Margaret Shepherd, I live at 6503 north --
22:09:31 street in Tampa.
22:09:32 I wish I had just said what the last three supporters
22:09:37 I agree with all of that.
22:09:38 I would like to give you an example of just the sort
22:09:44 of difference it makes, whether it has a liquor
22:09:49 license there to serve the customers.
22:09:52 I am going to have a small party in a couple of weeks,
22:09:55 and I want to have it at bungalow bistro.
22:09:58 And all that I am women I'm bringing this.
22:10:07 To this party will be from different parts of town to
22:10:09 introduce them to this wonderful treasure and I have
22:10:11 to do it within an apology to them and saying, and I
22:10:15 am going to bring wine, so we will have wine for our
22:10:18 lunch, and it seems -- it doesn't represent the kind
22:10:24 of -- not having the liquor license there doesn't
22:10:29 really support what we expect of a restaurant that is
22:10:34 of this caliber, because I don't know if you have
22:10:37 experienced the food and the ambience there, but it is
22:10:40 very high quality.
22:10:41 It's excellent.
22:10:42 And it just seems to naturally be part of what they
22:10:47 would have there, because I am apologizing to people
22:10:52 because I am bringing them here, and this isn't
22:10:56 It just seems logical, I supported the restaurant from
22:11:01 day one.
22:11:02 I was there on day one.
22:11:03 And I have seen it grow and develop.
22:11:05 And it is just fabulous.
22:11:08 And really deserves to be able to serve the customers
22:11:12 to the level that they fully have intentions.
22:11:18 So I am fully in support of their petition.
22:11:20 And I thank you very much for considering all of this.
22:11:34 I'm sorry, I. Been sworn in.
22:11:37 (Oath administered by Clerk).
22:11:39 >> My name is Sherri Simon.
22:11:40 I reside at 911 west shadow lawn in southeast Seminole
22:11:45 Heights, I'm also the president. Southeast Seminole
22:11:48 Heights civic association so the first thing I want to
22:11:50 say is the civic association backs this last request.
22:11:53 We did not back the first one.
22:11:55 So I haven't been here.
22:11:57 Secondly, I would like to say that when I moved to
22:11:59 southeast Seminole Heights, I knew I was moving in
22:12:02 your city and there was a little bit gritty and it was
22:12:05 going to have some issues.
22:12:07 I think if you are prepared to deal with those issues
22:12:11 in a reasonable way, there's always Carrollwood,
22:12:14 there's anyplace else you like to live but you take on
22:12:17 certain things when you live where we live.
22:12:19 I live three houses from where I pray will be a
22:12:23 restaurant that opens somewhere around in March.
22:12:28 She's submitting plans to the city.
22:12:30 She's been struggling for a year.
22:12:31 But it's about ready.
22:12:32 I know they are going to drive through my street.
22:12:35 I know that I am going to get angry a couple of times.
22:12:38 They are going to be parking in my front.
22:12:39 But you know what?
22:12:40 That's where I live.
22:12:41 And I welcome it.
22:12:43 And I think that one thing that nobody has said is
22:12:47 that Elizabeth gives back to the community quite a
22:12:49 She is the first one therein to say do you need a door
22:12:53 Do you need a little support?
22:12:54 Do you need to use my room for free?
22:12:56 Do you need this?
22:12:57 Do you need that?
22:12:59 She has made herself part of the neighborhood.
22:13:01 I think she's a welcome part of the neighborhood.
22:13:03 And I am very proud to endorse her.
22:13:05 Thank you.
22:13:10 >>> Thank you for bearing with all of us.
22:13:15 I'm Gary else worth, president of south Seminole
22:13:17 Heights civic association.
22:13:18 And I know you are probably thinking what I'm
22:13:20 thinking, and that's where can you go to eat at 10:15
22:13:23 in Tampa.
22:13:25 [ Laughter ]
22:13:27 There's leftovers at my house if you want to come
22:13:35 We supported this the first time around.
22:13:40 Really back in May or June.
22:13:42 We supported again as a neighborhood association.
22:13:44 And I think there's been tremendous compromise.
22:13:48 You kind of tried to make everybody happy.
22:13:54 I'm concerned when I hear us in the neighborhood come
22:13:57 up here and say we want businesses, and this is what
22:14:01 we want.
22:14:01 But what we are really say ago lot of times is we want
22:14:04 businesses, but we don't want them to be
22:14:07 We want them there so that when we drive by we feel
22:14:10 good seeing specialty shops and mom and pop shops, you
22:14:15 know all the terms get thrown out.
22:14:19 But what we are really saying is we don't want these
22:14:21 businesses to be too successful.
22:14:23 And very few restaurants can be successful without wet
22:14:27 You know, no matter what your feelings are about
22:14:29 alcohol, that's the way it is.
22:14:32 And, you know, I'm not saying I'm pro alcohol or
22:14:35 against alcohol.
22:14:36 But that's a reality of things.
22:14:38 I think that we as a neighborhood have to realize that
22:14:40 if we want businesses other than what we have got, and
22:14:44 what we have got are damaged appliances, and used
22:14:48 cars, and they operate from the last survey, and I
22:14:52 think it was Tony Garcia's department that did the
22:14:54 survey, they are there because it's cheap, it's easy,
22:14:57 it's click on, click off, and nobody in the government
22:15:00 bothers them.
22:15:02 And that's why these businesses flourish.
22:15:04 So we need businesses that can come and be successful.
22:15:07 We don't want people that have to thereby just so they
22:15:10 can squeak by and barely make a living.
22:15:13 And this is what it takes to work.
22:15:15 And some of you are business owners.
22:15:16 And I'm sure would agree that you don't want to open a
22:15:19 business just to get by and make the neighborhood feel
22:15:21 good when they drive down the street.
22:15:23 So we supported it before.
22:15:25 We support it again.
22:15:26 And I'm serious about the garage, if you want to come
22:15:29 over after the meeting.
22:15:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Not for GOULASH.
22:15:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
22:15:40 Anyone else?
22:15:44 [ Laughter ]
22:15:49 >>> I think you heard the neighborhood.
22:15:51 What more can I tell you?
22:15:53 Do you know how many times I stood before you and had
22:15:55 to deal with the fact that the neighborhood was
22:15:57 against it and you were all telling me you had to
22:15:59 listen to the neighborhood.
22:15:59 Well, the neighborhood has spoken loud and clear, and
22:16:01 I don't know what more they can tell you.
22:16:04 They are telling you please approve it.
22:16:06 It's what they are telling you.
22:16:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
22:16:15 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone).
22:16:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't think we are going to close
22:16:22 I was recognizing you, and then Saul-Sena.
22:16:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
22:16:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To get this off the dime, I think
22:16:33 we all received a letter from the Seminole Heights
22:16:35 organization that outlined the very specific concerns
22:16:39 that they would like to see reflected in an ordinance.
22:16:42 So what I would like to do is to continue this for two
22:16:45 weeks, and ask the legal department to use that letter
22:16:49 as a template to incorporate those concerns into an
22:16:53 ordinance and bring it back to us in two weeks at
22:16:59 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
22:17:01 I actually don't have a copy of that.
22:17:04 Somebody would need to get me a copy of. That staff
22:17:06 also does not have a copy of that.
22:17:08 That being said, what I would like to do is use this
22:17:10 as a basis, if that's also okay with the applicant.
22:17:15 But we would still like the opportunity, we are asking
22:17:17 to continue it because we would like an opportunity to
22:17:19 review it.
22:17:20 There were a couple of conditions that we need sod
22:17:22 clarification on so we might come back with some
22:17:24 suggestions and recommendations.
22:17:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
22:17:31 That's my motion.
22:17:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Diaz, if you can make the
22:17:38 statement again on the record.
22:17:42 >>> Joe Diaz: Council members, the stipulations that
22:17:45 we announced at the beginning were exactly the same
22:17:48 stipulations that you see in the e-mail that came from
22:17:53 the Old Seminole Heights neighborhood association at
22:17:57 6:35 on July 17th of 2008.
22:18:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
22:18:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't think we need a continuance.
22:18:05 I think Susan wouldn't be here if she weren't happy
22:18:11 and I thought everybody was standing up.
22:18:13 Do we need a continuance?
22:18:14 I thought all these people --
22:18:18 Well, staff would like to have it continued because
22:18:20 some of the conditions that were outlined, staff had
22:18:23 not been privy to them before tonight.
22:18:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Wait, let me ask Mr. Diaz.
22:18:29 Rebecca, you tell me.
22:18:30 >>> I'm saying staff and Mace until tonight have not
22:18:37 had a chance top look at some of these conditions.
22:18:39 Some of them are going Topp to be changed such takes
22:18:41 national holiday.
22:18:42 Some of these such as a wine or beer tasting.
22:18:46 We have some issues of enforcement.
22:18:48 Not the overall concept but that is what we are going
22:18:51 to need at least two weeks to talk to them and look at
22:18:53 it, tell Seminole Heights this is what we come back
22:18:58 But the ordinance will have to be changed anyway.
22:19:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Can I ask this?
22:19:02 Because I don't remember.
22:19:03 But we continued till tonight, right?
22:19:06 And there's an ordinance ready to go.
22:19:12 What we wanted, what we asked for at the first meeting
22:19:15 before we continued it.
22:19:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's correct.
22:19:18 And I reviewed the ordinance tonight, because what
22:19:20 happened was Mr. Diaz in his presentation iterated a
22:19:25 whole long list of conditions that he stated that he
22:19:28 wished to have in order to satisfy the needs of the
22:19:32 I reviewed the ordinance.
22:19:33 None of those conditions are in that ordinance which
22:19:36 means it has to be drafted to be able to support --
22:19:40 they are not in the ordinance tonight.
22:19:41 >>REBECCA KERT: We just received them tonight.
22:19:46 We were writing them down as they were being read.
22:19:48 It's not in the ordinance.
22:19:49 >>MARY MULHERN: This is what's interesting to me, we
22:19:52 are going to continue this again, when we are hearing
22:19:54 how people need to get this done.
22:19:56 And I feel like I want everything that Seminole
22:20:03 Heights wants in their neighborhood.
22:20:05 But this should have been worked out so that we had
22:20:10 what we needed before tonight.
22:20:14 I'm just complaining.
22:20:17 With this process.
22:20:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go ahead.
22:20:21 >>MARY MULHERN: If you have got those today, I'm not
22:20:25 talking about you, I'm talking about the neighborhood.
22:20:27 If they wanted these changes, this should have been
22:20:31 done in time so we would be done with this tonight and
22:20:33 we don't have to continue it again.
22:20:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could we do these between first and
22:20:39 second reading?
22:20:43 >>> Joe Diaz: What was prepared was an ordinance for
22:20:46 straight 4(COP) on the whole property.
22:20:50 I filed an amended petition and broke it up into two
22:20:54 different zoning classifications so the ordinance that
22:20:59 not only did it not have the conditions that came out
22:21:01 this morning at 7:00, but that ordinance also was a
22:21:06 straight 4(COP) and it's not --
22:21:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, but when we had the first, first
22:21:11 reading before we continued it, all of these things
22:21:14 came up.
22:21:16 So I don't understand why the ordinance didn't have
22:21:19 any conditions in it.
22:21:22 >>> These conditions didn't come out till this
22:21:25 They came out this morning.
22:21:27 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
22:21:28 At the last hearing there was no motion directing to
22:21:30 us make changes.
22:21:32 I don't make changes to the ordinance typically unless
22:21:34 directed by City Council.
22:21:35 If an applicant supplies me conditions ahead of time
22:21:38 and it's supported by staff, as a courtesy, I try to
22:21:41 have two drafts going so if in fact they are okay with
22:21:46 those conditions they don't have to come back but I
22:21:49 didn't receive them ahead of time and there was no
22:21:51 direction by City Council so they are not in the
22:21:53 That's just a fact.
22:21:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Then somewhere, between the petitioner
22:21:58 and the neighborhood association, our staff should
22:22:03 have had that, so that we would have had something,
22:22:06 had something that we could pass tonight.
22:22:11 Wouldn't you have done that if you had the
22:22:12 information, right?
22:22:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
22:22:15 >>REBECCA KERT: As a courtesy, I did try to do that.
22:22:18 >>MARY MULHERN: All right.
22:22:20 So can we have a continuance where all those
22:22:26 conditions get integrated and we don't have to have --
22:22:31 I know we have to have another public hearing, but do
22:22:36 we have to have another public hearing?
22:22:38 >> Yes.
22:22:39 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
22:22:40 You can continue it and leave it open for public
22:22:42 hearing but you can limited to comments to any changes
22:22:46 between what was discussed tonight and the conditions
22:22:49 that we are proposing.
22:22:50 I don't think that there will be any drastic changes.
22:22:53 But some of the language isn't quite there.
22:23:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Ms. Mulhern, if I can, the issue that
22:23:02 Ms. Kert is concerned about is with regard to the
22:23:04 proper drafting and enforceability within the language
22:23:08 of the ordinance.
22:23:09 So that's something that has to be vetted.
22:23:11 >>MARY MULHERN: I understand that.
22:23:14 I am just frustrated with this process because there's
22:23:16 in a nah reason for us, for all of us, for anybody
22:23:20 here to even have to come back, because if this would
22:23:27 have been brought back to our staff, our legal staff
22:23:30 would have had what you wanted tonight, in a form that
22:23:34 we probably could have had.
22:23:36 So I'm just -- whatever.
22:23:38 Whatever we can do to be out of here, I'm ready.
22:23:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
22:23:42 Councilman Dingfelder.
22:23:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I've read through Susan long's
22:23:51 e-mail and the compromise that's been proposed by Mr.
22:23:54 Diaz on behalf of his client.
22:23:56 I think we're close.
22:23:58 I think the key word is compromise.
22:24:01 I'm okay with the 2(COP).
22:24:03 I appreciate the fact that he split this out, 2(COP)
22:24:06 for the spa and 4(COP-X) for the restaurant.
22:24:12 Incidental to restaurant use.
22:24:13 I think that's all really good stuff.
22:24:19 If the ordinance comes back with weekdays, Sunday
22:24:22 through Thursday, till midnight, I won't support it.
22:24:26 I'll support it till 11.
22:24:28 Council, we just had the same exact issue in Soho
22:24:33 right next to not New Suburb Beautiful but Parkland
22:24:40 Seminole Heights is desperate for this type of
22:24:43 But pretty soon Seminole Heights will be crying to us
22:24:45 that there's too much of this type of establishment.
22:24:48 All right?
22:24:48 And I know you are not there yet, and we don't see it
22:24:51 necessarily, but go out to folks in Parkland Estates
22:24:55 and around Soho, because they reached the tipping
22:24:57 point and then they got beyond the tipping point.
22:24:59 And we see the results.
22:25:03 When lime restaurant came in front of us, you know, a
22:25:06 week ago, and wanted later hours, and the neighborhood
22:25:09 didn't want it.
22:25:10 That's where we are at.
22:25:11 So we have to balance those things, you know.
22:25:14 That's why we are here.
22:25:16 So I won't support weekday evenings past 11.
22:25:19 I don't see any reason for it.
22:25:21 Maybe I'm just getting old.
22:25:23 And on Friday and Saturday, I guess it's fine till 1
22:25:30 But I have a big, big problem with the weekday thing.
22:25:33 And I also have a big problem with any activity on the
22:25:35 porch, period.
22:25:39 Not just entertainment.
22:25:40 So as they say, that's just one man's opinion.
22:25:45 You know, I don't know.
22:25:46 Linda, your motion was, what, just adopt the Susan
22:25:49 long thing, period?
22:25:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That was my motion.
22:25:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If that's the motion I can't
22:25:54 support it.
22:25:55 I'll offer an amendment to the motion.
22:25:59 It's fairly friendly amendment but let's just see
22:26:01 where it goes.
22:26:01 I don't know if your motion got voted on yet.
22:26:05 >>MARY MULHERN: I second your motion.
22:26:07 Can I do that?
22:26:08 >> Yes.
22:26:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: With that motion made and seconded,
22:26:14 I'll just move to amend the motion slightly, Sundays
22:26:19 through Thursdays would be modified instead of
22:26:21 midnight down to 11 p.m., because that's what the
22:26:26 adjacent neighbors, the adjacent neighbors, the three
22:26:29 folks who stood here -- and they have been here all
22:26:33 night, too.
22:26:33 And we are here to listen to the minority.
22:26:35 If it was just about majority rules then they could
22:26:38 mail in their ballot and we wouldn't have to show up
22:26:40 but we have to be here to listen to the minority as
22:26:43 well and that's what they spoke.
22:26:44 So a friendly amendment would be 11 p.m. on weekdays,
22:26:49 Sunday through Thursday, and no activity on the porch
22:26:52 beginning two hours prior to closing.
22:26:55 As opposed to just no entertainment.
22:26:59 So that's my motion.
22:27:01 Looking for a second.
22:27:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll second because I haven't said
22:27:06 a word.
22:27:06 I have been listening here very quietly.
22:27:10 But all this is new.
22:27:13 You think every zoning is the same.
22:27:14 They are all different.
22:27:15 When you look at this, now you are looking at a salon
22:27:18 with a 2(COP).
22:27:19 Not an R.
22:27:20 But a 2(COP).
22:27:23 So that means that at whatever hour we are talking, 11
22:27:27 or 12, you know, I haven't seen the density to have 30
22:27:31 people go into a salon after 10:30 at night, 11:00 at
22:27:37 To have nails done, haircut, not that I'm going there.
22:27:41 And have a drink.
22:27:43 I mean, we are getting to the point in society where
22:27:53 advanced living facilities are going to have alcohol.
22:28:01 [ Laughter ]
22:28:03 And, on the other hand, you are going to get to the
22:28:05 point where they are going to say, we need alcohol to
22:28:09 And this is not about this item here.
22:28:10 I'm not talking about this particular zoning.
22:28:14 To have a daycare center have alcohol, incidental to
22:28:16 the business.
22:28:18 It's getting to be ridiculous.
22:28:21 And I'm not talking about your zoning, ma'am, I'm
22:28:25 talking because I want to talk.
22:28:27 I haven't said a word.
22:28:30 And I allowed you all.
22:28:31 You listened.
22:28:32 I listened to all of you.
22:28:34 Even when I was out I was listening to you.
22:28:36 So what I'm saying is at what point does legal say
22:28:39 this is within the guidelines of alcohol zoning and
22:28:41 this is not within the guidelines of alcohol zoning?
22:28:48 I don't know.
22:28:52 The way the records are, the way the recalls are now,
22:28:55 anyone can open up an alcohol zoning saying it's
22:28:58 incidental to some business, and not a liquor store.
22:29:05 Something that has nothing to do -- it used to be
22:29:12 alcohol was either a 4(COP), or a 4(COP-R), 2(COP),
22:29:17 2(COP-R), 1(APS), 2(APS).
22:29:20 Something of that nature and that form.
22:29:23 Now it's changed where restaurants stay open till
22:29:28 three in the morning.
22:29:29 Well, that's great.
22:29:30 I don't know how many of them survive.
22:29:33 And I'm not -- again I am not speaking about this
22:29:37 wonderful place that I hadn't been to, but I will.
22:29:41 That says that -- in the restaurant business you have
22:29:44 a 65% mortality within three years.
22:29:51 That's not me, that's the national standards saying
22:29:53 And I don't know enough about restaurants to discuss
22:29:56 all that.
22:29:58 But I can tell you that it's getting to the point
22:30:01 where I am about thinking to vote against all alcohol
22:30:04 Because it's been watered down to such a degree that I
22:30:08 don't know what's right and what's wrong anymore.
22:30:14 You can smile.
22:30:18 You can laugh.
22:30:19 I can do it, too.
22:30:21 But everyone that sat here has not put themselves in
22:30:27 somebody else's shoes. You haven't put ourselves in
22:30:30 our shoes or those that live next to this wonderful
22:30:33 And until you do that, you don't know what my
22:30:38 colleague Mr. Dingfelder spoke about in the Soho
22:30:43 Where traffic is so bad that on both streets you can
22:30:48 only have one car going in one direction at one time
22:30:50 because you can't have two going the same in opposite
22:30:54 directions because they don't fight fit.
22:30:56 Couple out with only one half car.
22:30:59 When the area is so loud that our biggest -- my
22:31:05 biggest concern is the amount of calls that I get at
22:31:09 the office from that neighborhood.
22:31:11 And I know you all want this and you're entitled to
22:31:13 have a nice place in your neighborhood.
22:31:15 You really are.
22:31:16 Not only one but many.
22:31:18 And you really are entitled to have alcohol.
22:31:20 And you really are entitled to have all the amenities
22:31:23 everybody else has.
22:31:26 But what is right and what is wrong is to be
22:31:31 I don't live there.
22:31:34 But I have to vote for something that's going in there
22:31:36 that's going to have a long standing to what happens
22:31:40 in the fought.
22:31:41 And I'm not here to lecture anybody.
22:31:44 I just maybe feel since I missed the 10:00 news that
22:31:47 I'll catch it at 11.
22:31:51 And maybe I won't.
22:31:52 But if not I'll catch it in the morning paper.
22:31:55 So I don't know what to ask legal for as far as what
22:32:00 is legal, what is not legal in alcohol zoning.
22:32:02 Where do we stop, where we say it's understand dental
22:32:07 to something and I'm not particularly asking about
22:32:09 this presentation, because I think it's flawless.
22:32:14 I think the whole neighborhood showed up and I applaud
22:32:16 them for showing up, for and against.
22:32:18 And I applaud the attorney's presentation.
22:32:20 I thought that was flawless.
22:32:22 You? But where do we say, or can we say, hi, I'm Joe
22:32:29 wrecker's service, do you want a drink?
22:32:31 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
22:32:35 I really think that's probably a bigger global issue
22:32:37 that if you want to set that for a discussion for
22:32:41 another day, that would be Missouri more appropriate.
22:32:43 That's the ins and outs.
22:32:45 That's -- I mean, I can tell you that I do believe
22:32:48 that it's legally sufficient to condition it to limit
22:32:52 it to the use that is they propose, as far as the
22:32:56 >> So what you just told me is everything is legal.
22:32:59 Legally to what they propose.
22:33:01 And I'm not talking about this item here, again.
22:33:08 >>> Arguably, yes.
22:33:09 >> That's what I thought was going to be the answer.
22:33:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can follow up.
22:33:15 Mr. Miranda, it's a public policy decision.
22:33:19 Because you have that discretion.
22:33:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let me just say to the
22:33:26 community, I really do applaud the Seminole Heights
22:33:29 community for really, really trying to reach a
22:33:36 I will tell you, I have been around a few days.
22:33:39 I haven't been around as long as Mr. Miranda, maybe
22:33:42 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
22:33:45 But I have been around a few days.
22:33:49 And I will tell you, though, even in the art of
22:33:53 compromise, I find that -- I have found that everybody
22:33:56 will not be happy.
22:33:57 You are not going to satisfy everybody in life.
22:34:00 It's just not going to happen.
22:34:03 Someone is going to leave still unhappy.
22:34:05 But I do applaud you for attempting to try to reach
22:34:07 some compromise solutions, because I will tell you
22:34:11 that Seminole Heights, I hear all the time from the
22:34:14 residents about business coming in, people being able
22:34:18 to walk to a restaurant.
22:34:19 You hear that all the time about Seminole Heights.
22:34:22 And so I do applaud the owner, and the community, and
22:34:26 those of you even staying this late.
22:34:30 Now, things change, people.
22:34:32 I remember when stores could not open on Sunday.
22:34:37 I remember when you couldn't sell alcohol on Sunday.
22:34:42 I remember when stores and shops had to close at 9:00
22:34:46 and all that contained of stuff.
22:34:48 All those things now have changed.
22:34:50 And we have to understand that.
22:34:53 Things have changed.
22:34:54 And we have to recognize that and try to deal with it
22:35:00 as they do that as a legislative body.
22:35:02 Now, let me get to my issue, though.
22:35:05 We have two motions.
22:35:06 And right now the amended motion supersedes the -- the
22:35:12 friendly amendment, or the station moss.
22:35:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Actually the amendment gets voted on,
22:35:19 and the amendment to the original motion.
22:35:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's way was saying, sir.
22:35:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Forgive me for interrupting but Mrs.
22:35:26 Kert did raise an interesting point that needs to be
22:35:28 addressed, that pursuant to that amendment, the
22:35:31 question is whether the applicant wishes to agree to
22:35:34 that amendment, because he does have the right to have
22:35:38 his proposal voted up or down.
22:35:40 So if he wishes to have the amendment, and I would
22:35:43 ask, is it your position that would you agree to that
22:35:52 amendment or do you wish to have it vote on?
22:35:56 >>> As I understand it, the single amendment is to
22:35:58 take the Sunday and Thursday from 12:00 to 11:00?
22:36:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And the part about the -- I'm good
22:36:11 with what you said on the porch except you said in a
22:36:13 entertainment on the porch.
22:36:16 No activity on the porch.
22:36:17 >>> So I was saying we would vacate if it was a 12:00
22:36:21 closing at 10, if it was an 11 -- I understand you
22:36:25 changed two hours earlier, I would say live music and
22:36:28 ample fade music would stop and you said on the porch
22:36:31 would also vacate.
22:36:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.
22:36:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can we split that and vote on the
22:36:40 two things separately?
22:36:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Linda, don't complicate it.
22:36:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's not what your motion said.
22:36:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In a.
22:36:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Oh, my goodness.
22:36:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Can I say something while they are
22:37:02 I just want to tell the people that live behind it is
22:37:04 that I totally understand and think you deserve to be
22:37:10 heard on that, because you did not move there when
22:37:12 there were restaurants or entertainment there.
22:37:15 So I understand that.
22:37:16 But I also feel that all these people -- and I know
22:37:22 even in the last hearing you said yourself that these
22:37:25 two businesses have been very, very cooperative and
22:37:29 friendly, and I think that they'll work with you.
22:37:31 So I think that it is pretty amazing how many people
22:37:37 turned out to support.
22:37:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let me just say something before
22:37:43 you render your decision.
22:37:44 Right now, you have a second -- a motion and a second.
22:37:49 I will tell you I am not in agreement with that.
22:37:51 I'm more apt to lean towards the motion here, so you
22:37:55 will know, and you may end up with nothing because you
22:37:58 have got to have four votes.
22:38:00 Is that right?
22:38:00 >>> Council, I appreciate the gesture, but I think we
22:38:13 have heard the community speak, and the community has
22:38:15 told you what they want.
22:38:18 Mr. Dingfelder, I can appreciate your views, but
22:38:23 unfortunately you don't live in that community.
22:38:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, in a, in a, Joe, don't miss
22:38:29 No, I am going to speak to. This don't miss
22:38:32 My motion represents those three people who live
22:38:34 directly lind it. This is not about John Dingfelder
22:38:37 who lives in South Tampa.
22:38:38 If those three people didn't show up and said they had
22:38:40 concerns then my mouth would have been shut for this
22:38:42 whole entire process.
22:38:44 I really resent that because I have gotten e-mails
22:38:46 about that, and now I hear you say it.
22:38:48 So I have just got to jump in, Joe, and correct that.
22:38:51 This is not about me and what I wish.
22:38:53 This is representing the voices that I heard from
22:38:56 those three fine people who have to live with this
22:38:59 right behind them.
22:39:00 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
22:39:01 I'm sorry.
22:39:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the only thing I will say,
22:39:03 councilman, is this, that we owe the respect for the
22:39:05 speaker to finish their remark and then we make
22:39:09 That's the appropriate and professional thing to do.
22:39:12 Allow the speaker to make his comments and then we
22:39:14 respond to those comments.
22:39:17 >>> I have no further comments, Mr. Chairman.
22:39:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
22:39:21 There's a motion on the floor.
22:39:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Which motion?
22:39:26 >> The amended motion.
22:39:27 Do you want to restate that?
22:39:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, did he agree to have that voted
22:39:31 on first?
22:39:32 >> In a.
22:39:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have to vote on his motion.
22:39:35 His motion takes precedence over your motion.
22:39:38 But he does not agree to the conditions of that
22:39:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
22:39:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't know if you can vote on my
22:39:48 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
22:39:50 The applicant has a right to have his application
22:39:53 voted up or down.
22:39:54 When you place conditions on it, he has to agree to
22:39:57 those conditions.
22:39:57 So basically he's amending his petition.
22:40:00 He's amending his petition to agree with the motion
22:40:03 that was made by Mrs. Saul-Sena.
22:40:05 However, he has not agreed to Mr. Dingfelder's.
22:40:08 Even though it received a second.
22:40:10 Even if it passed, it wouldn't be appropriate.
22:40:12 It's no longer an appropriate motion if the applicant
22:40:15 doesn't agree to it.
22:40:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Only in light of council's position
22:40:20 I withdraw my motion because it's out of order.
22:40:23 So now we go back to Linda's motion that has a second.
22:40:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you want to state your motion?
22:40:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My motion is to take the conditions
22:40:34 stated by the petitioner, with I were reflected in the
22:40:37 letter by the civic association, and continue this for
22:40:40 two weeks, to allow legal to draft and amend the
22:40:44 language and for that to appear on our agenda at 6:00.
22:40:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
22:40:50 We have a motion.
22:40:51 All in favor of the motion signify by saying Aye.
22:40:57 Motion carries.
22:40:58 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder voting no,
22:41:01 Miller and Caetano being absent at vote.
22:41:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And the date again.
22:41:08 >>THE CLERK: July 31st at 6 p.m.
22:41:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Think they should appear first on
22:41:12 the agenda.
22:41:14 >>> That was my request.
22:41:14 >>THE CLERK: Is that part of the motion?
22:41:18 >> Make that.
22:41:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move that this petition appear
22:41:21 first on our agenda.
22:41:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do I hear a second?
22:41:26 >>MARY MULHERN: I second it.
22:41:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor let it be known by Aye.
22:41:31 So moved.
22:41:33 All right.
22:41:34 Council, the last item, motion to receive and file.
22:41:37 >>: So moved.
22:41:39 >> Second.
22:41:39 (Motion carried)
22:41:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
22:41:43 Any other business that needs to come before council?
22:41:45 Then we stand adjourned.
22:41:46 Thank you.
22:41:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Oh, before you adjourn,
22:41:52 Mr. Chairman.
22:41:54 It's a Boy Scout thing.
22:41:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
22:41:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go ahead, John.
22:41:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a Boy Scout commendation
22:42:02 coming up real quick, Trey Wallrapp, and I'll give
22:42:10 this information to the clerk and I'll present it.
22:42:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
22:42:18 Moved and seconded.
22:42:19 All in favor let it be known by Aye.
22:42:22 (Motion carried).
22:42:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: One last thing.
22:42:26 Mr. Miranda as well.
22:42:27 I did have an opportunity to talk with Jim Stefan.
22:42:30 When something is a new item that relates to CIP
22:42:33 funds, it does require public hearing.
22:42:36 It's a more complicated process.
22:42:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
22:42:40 We stand adjourned.
22:42:42 (The meeting adjourned at 10:43 p.m.)
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