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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
AUGUST 21, 2008
9:00 A.M.

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>>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
order.
09:02:12:27 The chair will yield to Gwyneth Miller.
09:02:19:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:02:21:27 It's my pleasure to introduce one of my students.
09:02:24:03 I was very young then.
09:02:25:28 But I'm very happy to introduce Ms. Betty Greene
09:02:29:24 Johnson who is no stranger to us on the Council because
09:02:34:06 she's very active and been before us many times to give
09:02:38:06 the invocation.
09:02:39:03 Betty is the building supervisor in our utility
09:02:41:06 accounting division and she has been with us for 35
09:02:46:25 years.
09:02:47:15 Betty is also the president of the City of Tampa Black
09:02:49:24 History Committee, Incorporated, and she loves helping

09:02:53:00 out wherever and whenever she is asked.
09:02:56:03 If you're ever lucky enough to be around her for any
09:02:59:18 length of time, you will hear her singing.
09:03:03:07 Ladies and gentlemen, Ms. Betty Greene.
09:03:05:27 Would you please stand and remain standing for the
09:03:08:15 Pledge of Allegiance.
09:03:09:09 >> Good morning.
09:03:11:04 Let us bow.
09:03:12:18 O holy one, we ask now that you come into this meeting,
09:03:16:22 the City of Tampa City Council meeting, direct each
09:03:20:12 member present, direct each office present, direct the
09:03:23:28 citizens that speak before council.
09:03:27:09 Thank you for last night's rest was not in vain.
09:03:34:09 Thank you, o God, that you have been good to us and
09:03:38:03 been gracious in not letting hurricane Fay come this
09:03:41:24 way and damage a whole lot of things in our town.
09:03:45:03 Bless those that suffered loss.
09:03:47:12 Thank you for all of your many blessings.
09:03:51:15 Direct City Council, direct our Mayor, the chief of
09:03:55:12 these United States, the president and all those
09:03:59:06 persons that are working one way or the other for
09:04:01:24 citizens all over the United States.
09:04:03:24 These things we ask, amen.
09:04:10:13 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:04:25:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.

09:04:29:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Roll call.
09:04:31:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:04:33:09 >> Dingfelder?
09:04:34:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:04:35:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:04:37:00 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Here.
09:04:38:06 >> Mulhern?
09:04:39:22 Scott?
09:04:40:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:04:41:10 Council, let me just mention also that detective don
09:04:48:21 Miller's daughter was in a serious accident.
09:04:52:06 I think it was in Virginia -- South Carolina, and, of
09:04:55:12 course, he did come back today to be here with Council.
09:04:59:07 And I just want everybody to be aware of that, and that
09:05:03:04 we keep his daughter and family in prayer.
09:05:06:03 Thank you.
09:05:06:15 Okay.
09:05:08:25 We will now review the agenda.
09:05:14:06 >> Good morning.
09:05:15:06 Before you you have the addendum to the agenda.
09:05:22:24 There is one item under new business that didn't make
09:05:25:21 it to the addendum.
09:05:27:00 You have before you a resolution offered for your
09:05:28:24 consideration by Chairman Scott.
09:05:30:03 You have a copy of that in front of you, if you have

09:05:32:13 the opportunity to review that at some point during the
09:05:35:01 day, perhaps it would be appropriate for Council to
09:05:37:01 take that up under new business if it so pleases.
09:05:40:15 With regard to next Thursday's evening meeting, because
09:05:47:09 of a lack of a quorum, the 6 p.m. meeting on next
09:05:50:25 Thursday night will need to be cancelled and a notice
09:06:00:06 will be placed on the city's Web site on CTTV, in the
09:06:06:21 Council lobby down stairs in City Hall, on Council
09:06:10:06 doors and at least one newspaper.
09:06:11:28 With Council's indulgence, I would like to read that
09:06:14:28 now so people will be on notice that next Thursday
09:06:18:21 night's meeting is cancelled.
09:06:20:16 Please take notice that due to lack of a quorum, the
09:06:23:22 evening meeting of the Tampa City Council at 6 p.m. on
09:06:27:07 Thursday, August 28th, 2008, is cancelled.
09:06:31:12 The following public hearings are rescheduled and shall
09:06:35:09 be heard at Old City Hall, 315 East Kennedy Boulevard,
09:06:38:15 third floor, at 6 p.m. on Thursday, September 11th,
09:06:44:27 2008.
09:06:45:18 File number Z 08-47 public hearing on petition of Bill
09:06:50:16 Johnston, requesting to rezone property at 2024 East
09:06:55:00 62nd Street from RS-50 to IG.
09:06:58:01 File number Z 08-48, public hearing on petition of
09:07:01:27 Mr. George Peterson, requesting to rezone property at
09:07:05:21 6824 South Manhattan Avenue from IG to RM-18.

09:07:11:27 File number Z 08-50, public hearing on petition of
09:07:16:15 St. Joseph's Hospital, Incorporated, requesting to
09:07:18:28 rezone property at 3030 West Doctor Martin Luther King
09:07:23:06 Jr. Boulevard and 4220 North Gomez Avenue from PD to
09:07:27:25 PD.
09:07:28:18 File number Z 08-52, public hearing on petition of
09:07:34:00 towel partners LLC requesting to rezone property at 201
09:07:38:09 to 217 South Dale Mabry highway from CG to PD.
09:07:42:24 File number Z 08-32, continued public hearing from
09:07:46:10 July 17th, 2008, on petition of S and R Perry
09:07:50:18 Properties LLC requesting to rezone property at 2616
09:07:54:21 MacDill Avenue and 3008 West Barcelona Street from
09:07:58:28 CI to PD.
09:08:00:24 File number V 08-64, public hearing on petition of Dats
09:08:07:04 Restaurant Group LLC requesting an SU-2, sale of
09:08:11:24 alcoholic beverages, 2(COP) at 2616 south MacDill
09:08:16:16 Avenue.
09:08:17:00 File number Z 08-46, continued public hearing from
09:08:21:15 July 31st, 2008, on petition of Francisco Arturo
09:08:27:09 Cascio requesting to rezone property at 4215 North
09:08:30:21 15th Street from RS-50 to PD.
09:08:34:12 File number WZ 08-14, continued public hearing from
09:08:39:13 July 31st, 2008, on petition of Francesco Arturo
09:08:44:03 Cascio requesting the sale of alcoholic beverage,
09:08:47:09 2(APS) at 4215 North 15th Street.

09:08:51:21 And as regards to file number Z 08-31, the public
09:08:56:13 hearing on petition of Mark Bentley Esquire AICP
09:09:00:15 requesting to rezone property at 7210 Interbay
09:09:03:09 Boulevard from IG to CG due to misnotice, the public
09:09:08:04 hearing will be rescheduled to a later date and time by
09:09:11:27 Land Development Coordination.
09:09:14:04 Council, to inform you, the public will be notified.
09:09:19:24 Additionally, it's my understanding each of the
09:09:22:06 petitioners will be notified individually and that the
09:09:28:07 Neighborhood Associations will be notified through the
09:09:31:04 office of neighborhood relations.
09:09:33:09 And finally, that a copy of this notice is being
09:09:36:21 presented to the president of than.
09:09:41:12 With that being said, just a reminder there will be no
09:09:44:07 public meeting next Thursday night at 6 p.m.
09:09:47:01 Of course, the morning workshop will continue as
09:09:49:28 scheduled.
09:09:50:13 Next, Council, you have a memo from David Vaughn
09:09:56:21 requesting that items 19 and 20, which are relating to
09:10:00:06 the utility capital improvements project be removed
09:10:03:01 from this week's agenda.
09:10:05:00 Also, you are reminded that at 11 a.m. today, Council
09:10:14:18 will be in recess in order to take up the agenda as the
09:10:18:04 Community Redevelopment Agency.
09:10:19:22 Because of that, items 42 through 45 are to be adopted

09:10:24:06 after the conclusion of the CRA meeting.
09:10:26:18 Also, Council, a reminder that at 10:30, Council will
09:10:32:09 stop what it is doing in order to take up staff reports
09:10:35:19 and unfinished business as per Council's rules.
09:10:38:24 Item 84, you received a certificate of accuracy of
09:10:42:03 assessment roll, affidavit of mailing notice from the
09:10:45:21 Downtown Partnership, and with regard to item 93, you
09:10:48:25 have received a memo from Cynthia Miller regarding that
09:10:52:22 item.
09:10:53:07 Items 34, 64, and 65 are requested by Council member
09:11:00:00 Mulhern to be removed from committee reports and
09:11:04:21 consent agenda for discussion during staff reports and
09:11:08:04 unfinished business.
09:11:09:12 Below that are the items set for time certain.

09:11:12:03 Council, I'm not aware of any other changes to the
09:11:14:22 agenda.
09:11:15:07 And I present it for your approval.
09:11:17:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other items need to be pulled?
09:11:20:04 Okay.
09:11:20:15 Motion to the changes to the agenda.
09:11:22:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So move.
09:11:23:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second?
09:11:24:10 Is there a second?
09:11:26:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:11:26:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.

09:11:28:12 All in favor, let it be known by aye.
09:11:30:24 Opposed?
09:11:31:12 Okay.
09:11:32:18 At this time, we will take up public comment.
09:11:36:16 Those who wish to address Council may come and line up
09:11:39:27 and state your name and address.
09:11:41:10 You have three minutes to talk with Council about items
09:11:48:28 on the agenda.
09:11:51:16 Preference is given to the items on the agenda and then
09:11:55:06 subsequent to any items not on the agenda.
09:12:00:24 >> I'd like to talk about the dredging project on
09:12:07:27 Westshore.
09:12:08:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Could you state your name and address.
09:12:10:22 >> Paul nester, 2631 north Dundee street.
09:12:15:06 On the Dundee canal, there are three houses from
09:12:25:12 Westshore.
09:12:26:04 I'm included in one of them, and there's a fourth
09:12:29:27 vacant lot that received notices that they are going to
09:12:33:24 be charged for dredging.
09:12:38:10 On south Dundee, there may be three or four.
09:12:41:24 I couldn't find out how many are listed that are going
09:12:49:12 to receive -- that have received notices for payment
09:12:52:24 for dredging, possibility of.
09:12:56:15 This is all possible.
09:12:58:00 I have some aerial photos -- and you can see in these

09:13:30:24 photographs that the sediment that's coming through
09:13:34:16 onto Westshore has built up in the pond on the Dundee
09:13:40:00 canal, and it has drifted forward to include these
09:13:44:00 three or four houses that are next to it.
09:13:48:00 The people that live beyond that are not going to be
09:13:52:00 involved in the dredging.
09:13:54:15 I want to know how much sediment and muck that the city
09:14:00:28 plans to remove from the Dundee pond on Westshore, and
09:14:05:03 are they going to make a 20-foot-wide swath up to where
09:14:10:15 it come under Westshore, or are they going to clean the
09:14:14:06 whole thing out?
09:14:15:03 If you look at those photographs, you can see the
09:14:18:21 buildups is all right from Westshore up to about three
09:14:23:13 or four houses.
09:14:24:28 I want to know who is going to have to pay for it.
09:14:29:13 On north Dundee, we have, as I told you, three or four
09:14:39:06 homeowners.
09:14:39:27 There's one vacant lot that have received notices that
09:14:44:01 they'll be assessed for the cleaning of the canal,
09:14:48:07 20 feet wide.
09:14:49:21 And this sediment buildup is from about 6,000 acres all
09:14:56:00 the way over to Dale Mabry from the storm sewer system.
09:14:59:15 Why should three or four homeowners on north Dundee and
09:15:05:00 possibly the same number on south Dundee be responsible
09:15:08:25 for this cleanup.

09:15:10:03 I've lived there 40 years, and to my knowledge, it's
09:15:22:09 never been cleaned.
09:15:23:27 And when I originally went there, you could take a boat
09:15:27:13 all the way up into that area.
09:15:30:06 And we've just seen a gradual buildup over all these
09:15:34:03 years, and I think it's unfair to four to six to eight
09:15:43:13 homeowners to be responsible for that.
09:15:45:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:15:45:24 Thank you.
09:15:46:09 Next speaker.
09:15:52:03 >> Montague, 4702 Browning Avenue.
09:15:55:09 I'm here for the same reason.
09:15:57:12 I want to talk about that.
09:15:58:16 I really wanted to hear.
09:16:00:12 I heard the city was to present their presentation of
09:16:02:19 what they have changed and what they are doing about
09:16:05:00 the canal issue now and the $1.3 million that was
09:16:10:00 gotten for the estuaries and not being planned to spend
09:16:13:21 on it.
09:16:14:13 I'm aghast and some of you know also what happened at
09:16:18:06 Lake Kipling when they went in to put the scepters in,
09:16:21:09 it had nothing to do with the cleaning of the lake.
09:16:24:13 They simply removed enough silt around the scepter
09:16:29:00 pipes to allow more silt to come in.
09:16:30:27 But they did not clean up the springs in the center.

09:16:33:07 As all of you know, the fish died, and it was a
09:16:36:04 horrible mess.
09:16:36:27 Talking about the connector that connects on to Kipling
09:16:41:00 by way of a creek.
09:16:42:07 That creek needs to be cleaned up, and Dundee needs to
09:16:45:24 be cleaned out.
09:16:47:06 What he's telling you, Dundee receives more even than
09:16:52:24 Kipling and yet they are wanting to charge him and two
09:16:56:18 others right there at the beginning of the river where
09:16:58:13 all the silt comes from Dundee lake.
09:17:01:00 That's not fair the city dumps on us.
09:17:03:25 They need to clean it up.
09:17:05:03 They got the grant and it was awarded for cleanup for
09:17:08:27 those estuaries, and they are not being used.
09:17:11:12 And I think that's terribly unfair.
09:17:13:21 I would like to hear more about what they have changed
09:17:16:09 and what they are presenting because they are always
09:17:18:21 changing something.
09:17:19:15 The whole point is I believe EPA would not release that
09:17:23:04 1.3 million to the city because they were not using it
09:17:26:00 for environmental issues.
09:17:27:10 They were using it to entice the canal owners who want
09:17:31:00 to get their boats out to tax them for the rest of
09:17:36:01 their lives for an amount they don't know what it will
09:17:38:19 be and where does the maintenance come from?

09:17:40:12 The people will have to pay that.
09:17:42:04 That's unfair, totally unfair.
09:17:43:27 I would like to speak after they do their presentation.
09:17:46:15 But what Dr. Nester is telling you is something
09:17:49:09 terribly unfair, that they are charging him to clean up
09:17:52:06 the mess that's floated down from Dundee where it's put
09:17:55:04 in.
09:17:55:19 And he lives at the beginning of that river.
09:17:57:12 That river is supposed to be cleaned up along with
09:17:59:22 Dundee and along with that creek and along with Kipling
09:18:02:18 and the other estuaries that were named.
09:18:05:09 But the city is playing games to try to entice the
09:18:08:18 people to tax themselves for the rest of their lives.
09:18:12:15 I hope you all understand that issue.
09:18:14:21 And I'm sorry to take up your time.
09:18:16:21 Thank you.
09:18:16:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:18:20:06 >> My name is clay Mackleberry, 433 Columbia Drive.
09:18:24:18 I'm here to talk to you today about the 2(COP) licenses
09:18:27:24 and the $500 fines that hundreds of restaurants
09:18:31:00 receive --
09:18:31:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Sir, I don't think you can talk about
09:18:33:24 that at this point.
09:18:36:03 >> Are you talking in general or with regard to a
09:18:38:21 specific situation?

09:18:39:27 >> I received a $500 fine, and I'd like to speak about
09:18:45:04 that $500 fine, if I could.
09:18:51:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's not a petition before us.
09:18:53:09 >> I don't believe that would be something coming
09:18:55:09 before City Council ultimately.
09:18:57:06 I don't recall.
09:19:00:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I was going to bring something up
09:19:03:00 under new business, but if you want to wait till new
09:19:05:21 business, I'm fine with it.
09:19:07:13 I was going to discuss the process that we incurred.
09:19:10:04 This has been on the record for a long time.
09:19:12:12 I'm not proposing changing that.
09:19:14:06 I'm proposing that I am somewhat amused, not amused in
09:19:20:18 a way of fondness, but when you have 43% of something
09:19:25:06 being late, and that's what happened here, out of the
09:19:29:00 200 and something, I believe that 120 of them were
09:19:32:03 late.
09:19:32:13 And that number has just gone out of the roof.
09:19:36:18 We use to have maybe five percent, eight percent, now
09:19:40:04 it's 43 percent.
09:19:41:27 There's something wrong in communication between the
09:19:43:24 city and the good people who have the small businesses
09:19:46:03 and restaurants.
09:19:47:09 That's what I was going to discuss under new business.
09:19:54:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe it would be appropriate for

09:19:56:22 him to speak.
09:19:57:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda will bring it up
09:20:00:06 under new business.
09:20:01:27 >> I'll be as brief as I can.
09:20:03:19 I'm representing the other restaurants on Davis
09:20:05:10 Islands.
09:20:06:03 Four of us were fined.
09:20:07:18 Some of them couldn't be here today because they are
09:20:10:07 flipping pancakes at the moment.
09:20:12:03 But we feel this fine is a $500 fine now which is new
09:20:17:10 within the past six months.
09:20:19:06 And we think it's very stiff.
09:20:21:07 I'll give you one example and then I'll stop speaking.
09:20:26:09 The restaurant right across the street from me is
09:20:29:21 called Grecian Island Restaurant.
09:20:31:15 They only serve breakfast and lunch.
09:20:35:00 It's a mom-and-pop restaurant.
09:20:36:19 They both work there seven days a work, both lunch and
09:20:39:25 dinner and they have a 2(COP) liquor license.
09:20:42:25 And the only beer they ever sell is sometimes some
09:20:46:21 night employees come from Tampa general, they'll show
09:20:50:06 up in the morning and have a couple of beers.
09:20:52:12 He probably doesn't sell gross $500 worth of beer in
09:20:56:24 six months.
09:20:57:16 And he has to pay a $500 fine because he didn't swear

09:21:02:15 that he sells more liquor than he sells food.
09:21:05:15 We feel the fine is extremely high.
09:21:07:10 There's never been a fine in the past.
09:21:09:27 In the past, we would get a letter, a notification and
09:21:14:22 if we were late, a nice woman from the city would call
09:21:17:07 us and say, hey, your form is late, can you please mail
09:21:21:06 it in?
09:21:21:24 Okay, no problem.
09:21:22:27 It's a form we fill out, says we sell 13% alcohol and
09:21:27:22 87% food.
09:21:29:10 But I think the fine is extremely high.
09:21:31:28 We are small businesses.
09:21:34:18 We don't have, you know, a regulatory compliance
09:21:37:22 department.
09:21:38:07 We don't have a bookkeeping department.
09:21:40:27 We keep our own books.
09:21:43:06 It's an extremely high fine in this time and economy.
09:21:46:09 Thank you very much for listening to me, and I
09:21:48:04 appreciate it.
09:21:48:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Again, we'll take that up under new
09:21:51:28 business under Councilman Miranda.
09:21:54:27 He'll bring that forward at that time.
09:21:57:12 Mr. Knotts.
09:22:02:00 >> Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
09:22:02:27 My name is Moses Knotts, Junior.

09:22:04:21 I reside at 2902 East Ellicott Street three nights a
09:22:08:15 week.
09:22:09:03 I thank God for his grace and his mercy.
09:22:13:07 A lot of people -- I tell you all every year, Florida
09:22:26:06 is way overdue.
09:22:28:04 Everything going on in Florida.
09:22:40:09 -- all of this stuff, stones and everything, all this
09:22:46:12 comes up under sin.
09:22:47:25 In the 24 chapter of Matthew, told everybody about it.
09:22:54:22 There will be stones and dire places.
09:23:00:13 Many men coming claiming they are God.
09:23:05:27 Nation against nation, mother against father,
09:23:08:10 everything will happen.
09:23:09:21 Another thing I spotted in the paper and I got here
09:23:12:27 late, another thing got something to do with sin, too.
09:23:21:27 Housing for aids patients.
09:23:23:21 If you all took half of the housing and gave it to aids
09:23:28:15 patients, still wouldn't be enough.
09:23:30:09 I looked at black in America and it was sad how many
09:23:37:06 people got the aids.
09:23:38:09 In the Bible they call it -- over there in my part of
09:23:58:12 town, I bet there's 20 people for every house.
09:24:02:12 People say we're one paycheck from being out the door.
09:24:08:12 Now it's one day from being outdoors.
09:24:11:13 It's sad over there how many people getting put

09:24:14:24 outdoors sleeping in cars.
09:24:16:19 Just the other day I was down to McDonald's.
09:24:19:15 I seen a young lady and two children sleeping in the
09:24:22:09 back of their car.
09:24:25:09 Just sad out there right now.
09:24:26:27 This housing thing right now, it's tough how many
09:24:30:01 people outdoors right now.
09:24:31:21 Every time freezing cold came up, I sit in the house
09:24:35:21 and look and just prayed.
09:24:37:13 I said, Lord, how in the world these people make it
09:24:41:13 outdoors.
09:24:43:03 Another thing, I represent poor people, and I tell them
09:24:50:03 for years I've been coming to the podium.
09:24:52:13 The only thing poor people got going for them is pray
09:24:56:15 and vote.
09:24:57:09 And I tell them now, vote for the politician that has
09:25:00:18 the best track record.
09:25:02:01 Don't go for the good old boy or good old girl.
09:25:06:01 I tell you right now, it is sad out there.
09:25:08:27 I'll tell you, this whole thing has got something to do
09:25:13:24 with sin.
09:25:14:19 I'll close by saying I voted two times and my vote
09:25:17:12 didn't count.
09:25:18:03 I tell everybody to vote.
09:25:21:18 I voted two times and people had the most votes and I

09:25:25:00 lost.
09:25:25:15 Thank you.
09:25:37:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
09:25:43:27 >> Good morning, City Council.
09:25:45:04 My name is Janelle Anson.
09:25:48:06 I live at 101 South 12th Street.
09:25:48:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Could you state your name one more
09:25:51:24 time?
09:25:52:12 >> Janelle Anson.
09:25:54:22 Speaking in general right now because it is later.
09:25:56:27 But this is about just general reporting for projects.
09:26:00:04 What is being handed out now.
09:26:02:25 But my general discussion right now, is the fact you
09:26:09:19 passed a special assessment years ago for the historic
09:26:13:09 streetcar at which point when the tax assessor takes
09:26:16:12 from us incorrectly for the streetcar, when you ask for
09:26:18:25 the refund, they say it takes several months.
09:26:21:21 At that point when you then ask again because you
09:26:24:07 haven't received it and they say call us back, they say
09:26:26:21 in the detail, the name is Michael English.
09:26:28:28 He needs to talk to us.
09:26:30:21 There's no other response.
09:26:32:07 They said who signed the paperwork was honorable Gwen
09:26:37:00 Miller.
09:26:39:10 I have spoken with her.

09:26:40:03 Since that conversation, staff has been cut many
09:26:43:18 places.
09:26:44:06 There is no answer.
09:26:45:06 The tax department says get the press involved.
09:26:47:27 This isn't a press issue.
09:26:49:12 This is proper communication and due process.
09:26:52:06 Unfortunately, what was passed, I'm owed just shy of
09:26:55:22 $100, supposedly.
09:26:58:22 I'd like it back, and if Michael English would release
09:27:01:27 it, that would be wonderful.
09:27:03:06 I do believe there are others out there owed the money.
09:27:06:09 They only have three years to attempt to collect and
09:27:08:19 then it's too late.
09:27:09:27 This time they said you have to figure out how to get
09:27:12:24 Mike English to talk to us.
09:27:14:09 A, I say amend the document a bit so it's not one
09:27:17:03 person and let's see who is owed refunds, and who do I
09:27:20:21 follow up on this board so I myself can at least get a
09:27:24:06 refund?
09:27:25:06 Can someone answer me?
09:27:26:24 Because I reached out and since Miller, we were working
09:27:30:10 on it, they have given me no answer.
09:27:32:15 So me going back to you, it's almost like you need the
09:27:35:24 help.
09:27:36:04 I know I'm not the only one.

09:27:37:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry to interrupt you.
09:27:40:06 If you could stop the time for a minute.
09:27:42:06 The point to discuss the issues specific to you with
09:27:44:22 the special assessment would be during the public
09:27:46:15 hearing.
09:27:47:06 My public hearing was that you passed out material to
09:27:50:15 Council regarding something to consider generally with
09:27:53:07 regard to a suggestion about reporting.
09:27:55:10 If you could address that during public comment, if you
09:27:58:24 wish to address your specific issues, if you could do
09:28:02:16 it during that specific special assessment public
09:28:04:27 hearing.
09:28:05:25 >> Certainly.
09:28:06:10 I apologize.
09:28:07:15 We had a disconnect there.
09:28:08:25 What I've handed out here is for general reporting.
09:28:12:07 As you can see, it shows beginning at the vision
09:28:15:12 mission values what your mission is, very clearly.
09:28:18:21 It shows, also, and I'll put down on the six strategic
09:28:22:21 focus areas, efficient government.
09:28:24:24 If you go through to the next page, the state of Alaska
09:28:27:27 has a very simple charter.
09:28:29:25 This is a template.
09:28:31:03 This is something south Gandy is work on with us.
09:28:35:21 Historic Hyde Park, East Tampa.

09:28:39:07 It is a huge effort so we can get communication from
09:28:42:04 you, you reach out to who is spending the money.
09:28:46:01 You're spending our money.
09:28:49:01 They should report you and we should be able to get the
09:28:51:22 information through you so when they have issues, we
09:28:54:06 can track them, talk to them.
09:28:56:06 We then broke it down, project charter for the
09:28:59:03 different ones for the special assessment including
09:29:02:00 historic streetcar.
09:29:03:06 We're just looking for one month's time when you pass
09:29:06:07 anything to get a charter back in a month and we should
09:29:09:03 be able to reach out to you directly because they have
09:29:11:13 given it to you.
09:29:12:21 You know what the focus is in scope and out of scope.
09:29:16:12 It's pretty simple to read.
09:29:18:03 And the very last page and this is standard practice,
09:29:21:07 weekly, the people spending the taxpayer money should
09:29:24:10 be submitting a weekly report whether you review it or
09:29:27:10 not.
09:29:27:21 It has issues.
09:29:28:18 It has risks.
09:29:29:16 When we talk to the departments or like Mike English,
09:29:32:22 he lists it as an issue.
09:29:34:24 When you get your weekly report, you realize he did
09:29:37:24 hear us.

09:29:38:09 If it's not there, you know, hey, it's historic
09:29:41:00 streetcar, there's an issue that should be on the list,
09:29:43:15 why aren't you addressing it.
09:29:45:27 We're giving you taxpayer dollar, we want a good
09:29:48:07 product for our customers.
09:29:50:00 That goes back to the six strategic areas that we
09:29:52:16 included unlike the state of Alaska proposal.
09:29:55:09 Everything we're spending on is in align with what
09:29:58:18 you're in full support of.
09:30:00:00 There is clear communication and we are the next
09:30:02:16 greatest city with a date.
09:30:05:22 It's not just the next.
09:30:07:10 We can put a date on it.
09:30:19:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
09:30:22:06 >> I'm Mark ALMA.
09:30:25:28 East Kennedy Boulevard, Channel District.
09:30:28:01 I wanted to speak about the downtown special
09:30:30:15 assessment.
09:30:31:10 I spent the last month --
09:30:33:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Sir, I'm sorry to interrupt you.
09:30:35:16 But the appropriate time to do that, sir, would be
09:30:39:19 during the public hearings on the special assessments.
09:30:41:27 Those will be coming up very shortly.
09:30:43:28 >> I'm sorry.
09:30:44:21 When it said public speaking I thought it was for all

09:30:48:21 the stuff on the agenda.
09:30:50:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Any item not set for a public hearing.
09:30:53:06 You can speak for any item not set for a public hearing
09:30:56:18 or --
09:31:04:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:31:05:15 Anyone else wish to address Council?
09:31:07:03 We'll move then to anyone wish to request
09:31:11:12 reconsideration on legislative matter?
09:31:12:27 Okay.
09:31:18:18 We'll move then to the ordinance presented for first
09:31:21:00 reading.
09:31:21:15 Mr. Miranda.
09:31:28:19 We're on ordinance presented for first reading, number
09:31:34:15 one.
09:31:36:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I move an ordinance
09:31:38:21 presented for first reading, an ordinance authorizing
09:31:41:27 certain encroachments, balcony with canopy overhang and
09:31:48:19 support columns and footers over portions of the public
09:31:51:27 rights-of-way known as North 10th Street and East
09:31:54:12 Columbus Drive, in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough
09:31:56:06 County, as more particularly described herein, subject
09:31:58:09 to certain terms, covenants, conditions and agreements
09:32:00:27 as more particularly described herein, providing an
09:32:03:03 effective date.
09:32:03:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It has been moved and seconded by

09:32:06:03 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:32:07:06 All in favor, signify by aye.
09:32:09:09 Opposed?
09:32:10:06 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:32:12:25 The second reading of the ordinance will be held
09:32:15:01 September the 4th at 9:30 a.m.
09:32:17:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
09:32:24:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move the following ordinance
09:32:26:07 upon first reading.
09:32:27:10 An ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida, amending
09:32:30:06 City of Tampa Code chapter 14 offenses; article II,
09:32:33:07 section 48; making it unlawful for a property owner or
09:32:36:21 lessee or property owner to cause a vehicle to be towed
09:32:40:13 without a written order; making it unlawful for wrecker
09:32:43:27 operations or wrecker drivers to tow vehicles located
09:32:50:01 on private property which is licensed to sell alcohol
09:32:52:15 without a written order provided by the owner during
09:32:55:22 certain business hours; providing for severability,
09:32:56:15 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict;
09:32:56:15 providing an effective date.
09:32:56:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, significant by aye.
09:33:00:00 Opposed?
09:33:01:18 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
09:33:03:15 The second reading of the ordinance will be held
09:33:05:21 September the 4th at 9:30 a.m.

09:33:11:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move to our committee reports.
09:33:14:12 Public safety.
09:33:14:27 >>GWEN MILLER: I move resolutions three through six.
09:33:17:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:33:19:03 All in favor, signify by aye.
09:33:21:06 Opposed?
09:33:22:04 Parks and recreation, Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:33:25:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like to move resolutions 7
09:33:28:27 through 14.
09:33:32:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
09:33:34:13 Seconded by councilwoman Mulhern.
09:33:36:15 All in favor, signify by aye.
09:33:38:12 Opposed, same sign.
09:33:39:22 So moved.
09:33:40:18 Public Works Committee, Councilman Miranda.
09:33:43:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move items 15 through 35.
09:33:47:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
09:33:49:24 Seconded by councilwoman --
09:33:53:18 >>THE CLERK: 34.
09:33:55:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
09:33:55:21 Need to pull out 34, Mr. Miranda.
09:33:59:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Why is that?
09:34:01:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern requested to pull
09:34:07:00 34.
09:34:07:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Can I speak on 34 now?

09:34:10:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
09:34:11:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This item is one that through the
09:34:13:03 benefit of, oddly enough, the bad economic times, the
09:34:17:04 City of Tampa is receiving a bid offer that is reduced
09:34:22:10 by what the estimated cost was by over a million
09:34:25:06 dollars, pushing two million dollar operation.
09:34:28:06 And I see nothing wrong with that.
09:34:30:03 We had to go into the funds for -- I don't think I see
09:34:33:21 anything wrong with that when you're saving money.
09:34:36:09 These are funds that are transmitted on paper so that
09:34:39:15 we could operate this and get it done.
09:34:43:16 This was passed sometime back when we went to the
09:34:47:22 bonding series so we can get the Water Department in
09:34:51:21 line with the reality.
09:34:54:06 These are lines from two inches to 40 some inches to
09:34:57:22 speed up the process by which we don't spend money on
09:35:01:09 just continuing repairs of water lines but to continue
09:35:04:22 improving the water lines.
09:35:06:06 We're going from ten miles a year or 50 miles in five
09:35:09:24 years to 40 miles a year, and it would be a benefit to
09:35:12:25 all the taxpayers to have the infrastructure addressed
09:35:15:19 and in place so that the future citizens could have the
09:35:18:21 same good living that we enjoy now.
09:35:27:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I pulled similar item last week or the
09:35:30:03 week before just because of the large amount, the large

09:35:34:09 capital expenditure, which this one is almost
09:35:37:18 $9 million again.
09:35:39:06 I had my questions answered.
09:35:43:24 I'm fine with it.
09:35:45:07 I understand that, you know, we have a low bid and
09:35:47:27 we're saving a lot of money on it and that's great.
09:35:50:27 What I'd like to ask if it's possible and I wouldn't be
09:35:57:13 pulling these items in the future is when we're
09:35:59:22 approving a huge expenditure like this, if we could
09:36:02:21 know what actual part of the project, at least
09:36:07:21 geographically where this will be happening.
09:36:10:18 I think Brad or Steve Daignault was going to be here.
09:36:17:06 10:30, okay.
09:36:18:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll agree to hold it till 10:30.
09:36:23:24 I have no problem with that.
09:36:25:09 >>MARY MULHERN: I feel when we're spending that much
09:36:27:13 money, the public should know where it's going.
09:36:31:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll include -- we'll exclude it now.
09:36:41:15 Items 19 and 20 already continued.
09:36:43:27 There's a motion and a second.
09:36:44:03 All in favor, aye.
09:36:46:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, just a clarification.
09:36:48:28 Did Council still want staff to come and answer the
09:36:51:16 questions today on that?
09:36:53:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, item 34.

09:36:54:27 The item has been approved, it was in the motion.
09:36:58:04 Item 34 was in the motion.
09:37:00:00 Councilwoman Mulhern would like the staff to come and
09:37:02:18 address her concern, okay?
09:37:04:03 Finance Committee, councilwoman Mary Mulhern.
09:37:08:01 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
09:37:09:15 I move items 36 through 39.
09:37:14:12 >> Second.
09:37:14:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Also, we need to have a resolution
09:37:17:06 presented on September the 4th.
09:37:19:21 Moved and seconded.
09:37:22:21 Second by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:37:24:12 All in favor, signify by aye.
09:37:26:15 Opposed?
09:37:27:15 Councilwoman Joseph Caetano, building and zoning.
09:37:31:21 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: I would like to move items 40 through
09:37:35:03 59.
09:37:37:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We're going to pull items 42, 43, 44
09:37:41:15 and 45 and take them up after the CRA.
09:37:44:27 All items except those four items.
09:37:46:27 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Okay.
09:37:48:10 We'll exclude those items.
09:37:50:09 >> Second.
09:37:50:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
09:37:53:15 Opposed?

09:37:54:12 Okay.
09:37:54:27 Transportation, councilman Dingfelder.
09:38:03:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
09:38:04:06 Move items 60 through 69.
09:38:06:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
09:38:09:21 Charlie Miranda.
09:38:11:03 All in favor, signify by aye.
09:38:12:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 64 and 65 were asked to be pulled.
09:38:18:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, I looked at those yesterday.
09:38:21:15 I do have a question about 65, but I don't have a
09:38:24:28 question about 64.
09:38:26:09 If we could just pull 65.
09:38:28:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move 60 through 69, excluding
09:38:31:21 65.
09:38:32:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:38:33:09 Pulling 65.
09:38:34:06 All in favor, signify by aye.
09:38:36:15 Opposed?
09:38:37:10 Items set for public hearing.
09:38:45:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Set items 70 through 75 for public
09:38:48:04 hearings.
09:38:48:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:38:49:15 All in favor, signify by aye.
09:38:51:27 Opposed?
09:38:55:03 Take up now the second reading on proposed ordinance,

09:38:59:24 public hearings.
09:39:00:12 We need to open.
09:39:09:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Number 76 is nonquasi-judicial.
09:39:12:18 After you take that you'd be requested to swear in the
09:39:15:21 witnesses.
09:39:18:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 76, Councilwoman Miller.
09:39:24:24 Anyone want to address Council, come forward on this
09:39:29:15 item?
09:39:31:15 >> Move to close.
09:39:32:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
09:39:34:09 >>GWEN MILLER: I move to adopt the following ordinance
09:39:36:27 for second reading, ordinance of the City of Tampa,
09:39:38:24 Florida, amending City of Tampa Code of ordinances
09:39:41:15 chapter 22, streets and sidewalks, section 22-103;
09:39:49:16 providing for severability, providing for repeal of all
09:39:51:27 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
09:39:53:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
09:40:05:27 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
09:40:10:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Those who want to address Council,
09:40:15:09 please stand and be sworn at this time.
09:40:17:06 Items 77 through 83.
09:40:20:00 If you're going to address Council on any items from 77
09:40:23:06 to 83, you need to stand to be sworn.
09:40:30:21 (Oath administered by clerk).
09:40:36:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Shelby.

09:40:37:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:40:38:15 I ask that all documents that have been available for
09:40:41:27 public inspection at City Council's office be received
09:40:45:12 and filed into the record at this time.
09:40:47:15 >> So move.
09:40:48:18 >> Second.
09:40:48:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
09:40:52:01 So moved.
09:40:52:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you've had any ex parte
09:40:55:03 communication, please disclose those prior to the vote.
09:40:57:28 Lastly, there's a sign-up sheet outside that if you
09:41:00:19 were going to testify that you do sign in.
09:41:03:10 I'm putting the sign to remind you to please reaffirm
09:41:07:04 that you have been sworn.
09:41:08:07 Thank you.
09:41:08:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 77, anyone here wish to address
09:41:12:04 Council on this item?
09:41:15:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
09:41:16:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:41:17:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
09:41:19:21 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:41:20:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:41:21:24 I move to adopt the ordinance upon second reading,
09:41:27:03 ordinance amending ordinance 2006-159, vacating,
09:41:31:09 closing, discontinuing and abandoning certain

09:41:33:09 rights-of-way, all or a portion of those certain
09:41:36:15 rights-of-way contained within the proposed heights
09:41:39:12 community development district generally located south
09:41:41:15 of Ross Avenue, west of Tampa Street, north of the
09:41:44:24 north bank of the Hillsborough River and east of north
09:41:47:15 boulevard in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County,
09:41:49:10 Florida, amending section 2, 5, and 8 of said ordinance
09:41:52:27 to amend certain covenants, restrictions and conditions
09:41:56:03 set forth in said ordinance relating to a certain
09:41:59:01 parcel as more particularly described herein, providing
09:42:01:22 an effective date.
09:42:02:18 >> Second.
09:42:02:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
09:42:06:07 Record your vote.
09:42:19:16 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Mulhern being
09:42:22:15 absent at vote.
09:42:23:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wish to address Council on item
09:42:26:28 78?
09:42:28:07 >> Move to close.
09:42:29:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
09:42:31:18 So moved.
09:42:34:15 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Ordinance presented for second
09:42:36:22 reading, ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida,
09:42:39:09 amending a development order pursuant to section
09:42:41:25 380.06, Florida statutes, filed by the Westshore

09:42:46:27 alliance for the Westshore area-wide development of
09:42:49:24 regional impact, DRI number 141, a previously approved
09:42:53:22 development of regional impact and providing an
09:42:56:03 effective date.
09:42:56:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
09:42:58:09 It's been moved and seconded.
09:43:00:00 Seconded by Councilman Miranda.
09:43:02:09 Record your vote.
09:43:09:12 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Mulhern being
09:43:11:24 absent at vote.
09:43:13:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 79, anyone wish to address Council
09:43:17:01 on this item?
09:43:22:06 >> Good morning, Council members.
09:43:24:06 LaChone Dock, Land Development Coordination.
09:43:27:00 Item 79, 81, 82 and 83 all require certified site
09:43:31:27 plans.
09:43:32:12 These plans have been certified by the zoning
09:43:35:24 administrator and provided to the clerk.
09:43:37:12 I have copies of the plans in case you have any
09:43:39:18 questions.
09:43:42:00 >> Move to close.
09:43:43:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
09:43:47:06 Councilman Miranda.
09:43:47:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance for second
09:43:53:24 reading.

09:43:55:00 Move an ordinance approving special use permit S-2,
09:43:58:07 approving off-street commercial parking in an RM-16
09:44:01:21 residential multifamily zoning district in the general
09:44:03:15 vicinity of 2412 and 2414 West North A Street in the
09:44:08:00 City of Tampa, Florida and as more particularly
09:44:10:13 described in section 1 hereof, approving waivers as set
09:44:13:19 forth herein, providing an effective date.
09:44:14:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:44:16:09 Seconded by Councilman Dingfelder.
09:44:18:09 Record your vote.
09:44:24:19 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Mulhern being
09:44:27:01 absent at vote.
09:44:29:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wish to address Council on item
09:44:32:21 80?
09:44:35:06 >> Move to close.
09:44:35:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
09:44:39:00 Councilman Miller.
09:44:40:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:44:41:22 I move the following ordinance for second reading for
09:44:44:09 adoption.
09:44:44:21 An ordinance making lawful the sale of beverages
09:44:47:00 regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine and liquor,
09:44:51:13 4(COP-X) for consumption on premises only at or from
09:44:55:21 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 5137
09:45:00:18 north Florida Avenue, Tampa, Florida, and the sale of

09:45:05:01 beverages containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight
09:45:07:27 and not more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of
09:45:11:22 alcoholic content, beer and wine, 2(COP), for
09:45:16:00 consumption on premises and in sealed containers for
09:45:19:21 consumption off premises at or from that certain lot,
09:45:24:01 plot or tract of land located at 5135 north Florida
09:45:28:00 Avenue, Tampa, Florida, said properties more
09:45:30:12 particularly described in section 2 hereof, waiving
09:45:32:24 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
09:45:35:21 findings, imposing certain conditions, providing for
09:45:42:04 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
09:45:44:12 effective date.
09:45:44:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:45:46:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll support this motion but I'll be
09:45:48:22 very restrictive in the future on alcohol zonings.
09:45:51:18 I think we've gotten to the point now where we have a
09:45:54:15 wrecker service, or you have a body shop or you have a
09:45:57:12 hair salon, I don't want to say hair because of myself,
09:46:01:22 you're entitled to get these things.
09:46:04:06 We're getting to the point now where your child care
09:46:06:13 center will have these things.
09:46:07:28 It's getting to the point overextending.
09:46:11:03 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, on this motion, what if
09:46:15:27 there's a violation in one of them?
09:46:17:18 Being that we're voting on both of them at the same

09:46:20:09 time on the same motion, if there's a violation on one
09:46:23:10 of them, does that negate the second one also?
09:46:28:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Counsel may want to address that.
09:46:32:04 >>REBECCA KERT: It is all one wet zoning with two
09:46:34:21 separate categories.
09:46:35:13 If there were any revocation proceeding, the revocation
09:46:39:00 would be to the entire wet zoning.
09:46:43:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:46:44:01 Record your vote.
09:47:01:04 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Do you have my vote?
09:47:03:10 >>THE CLERK: No, I'm short one.
09:47:09:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mulhern is out.
09:47:17:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
09:47:33:18 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Caetano and
09:47:36:21 Dingfelder voting no and Mulhern being absent at vote.
09:47:41:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wish to address Council on item
09:47:43:22 81?
09:47:44:15 Item 81, anyone wish to address Council?
09:47:48:19 >> Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of Council, Mark
09:47:50:15 Bentley, 201 North Franklin street.
09:47:53:19 I really don't have anything unless you have any
09:47:55:24 questions.
09:47:57:00 Notably, Councilman Miranda was not in attendance last
09:48:00:18 time, so if you need a refresher, Mr. Miranda, we'll
09:48:03:21 gladly do that for you.

09:48:05:06 We have documentation that we would like the clerk to
09:48:07:12 receive and file.
09:48:08:04 I notice that Mr. Fernandez is here, I believe, to
09:48:11:18 testify in connection with this matter.
09:48:13:13 So I'd appreciate the opportunity to have a couple of
09:48:15:21 minutes of rebuttal, if that's the case.
09:48:19:06 Thank you.
09:48:20:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wish to address Council?
09:48:22:28 Anyone else?
09:48:28:21 >> Dennis Fernandez, architecture review and historic
09:48:31:06 preservation manager.
09:48:32:04 I apologize, I was not able to attend the July 31st
09:48:35:21 first reading.
09:48:36:21 I was at a neighborhood meeting.
09:48:38:12 I am here available today for you to answer any
09:48:41:06 questions dealing with the recommendation by the
09:48:43:10 architecture review commission to deny the PD plan as
09:48:47:12 submitted.
09:48:47:22 I know there was some discussion about that.
09:48:54:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:48:55:15 I'm very appreciative of you attending this morning.
09:48:58:03 If you could elaborate a little further on the
09:49:01:09 recommendation of disapproval.
09:49:04:12 >> The architecture review commission voted unanimously
09:49:06:18 to deny the application as presented based on criteria

09:49:11:24 within the Tampa Heights design guidelines,
09:49:14:09 specifically that the office space which entails
09:49:18:01 parking beneath the building is a building form that is
09:49:21:27 foreign to the historic districts.
09:49:24:21 The architectural review commission has been very
09:49:28:06 consistent in attempting to keep this type of building
09:49:31:03 form out of the historic districts because it does
09:49:33:16 violate certain inherent parameters of the character of
09:49:38:24 all the historic districts, including Tampa Heights.
09:49:41:21 That being said, it was seemed to be inconsistent with
09:49:45:06 the building masses and forms within the district with
09:49:48:12 other details of historically appropriate commercial
09:49:50:21 forms and more specifically set out in various pages of
09:49:56:06 the design guidelines.
09:49:57:09 One of the primary pages that was pointed out is the
09:50:01:25 design for compatible new construction within the
09:50:04:06 district, which deals with massing and building form
09:50:07:15 and entrances and ports projections.
09:50:15:28 Under massing and building forms, it states not
09:50:18:27 permissible to use massing and building forms
09:50:24:01 specifically really dealing with more specifically the
09:50:24:19 building forms and massing, which is a result of a
09:50:28:00 building form.
09:50:28:18 The garage at the lower level is requiring that another
09:50:32:03 story be added on the building.

09:50:35:19 Completely foreign to the Tampa Heights historic
09:50:41:16 district.
09:50:42:01 Also dealing with the proper siding of a commercial
09:50:48:15 structure, you see that delineated here within the
09:50:52:24 design guidelines on page 49.
09:50:56:22 Also referenced was page 54 during the discussion,
09:51:00:18 which dealt with entrances and porch projection.
09:51:06:21 The plan as presented does not allow for traditional
09:51:09:07 application of an entrance and porch projection.
09:51:12:12 Here is one in close proximity.
09:51:15:21 I read the transcript.
09:51:16:24 I know there's a lot of discussion about some of the
09:51:18:22 development that was happening more towards the west,
09:51:24:00 those are areas outside the local historic district.
09:51:26:28 Also Mobley park development on the south side, also
09:51:30:19 outside the local historic district.
09:51:32:24 The large multistory building, mid-rise building to the
09:51:36:07 north of the property, that existed prior to the
09:51:39:01 district being designated.
09:51:40:12 In addition to preservation, when you deal with the
09:51:44:13 historic district, you deal with the redevelopment of
09:51:46:21 vacant parcels.
09:51:47:12 You see, this particular building, which is a
09:51:49:16 contributing structure within the district, which
09:51:51:27 situated at the ground level with a defined entrance.

09:51:55:22 That's a very important characteristic of the historic
09:51:58:27 district is having a defined entrance at the ground
09:52:01:15 level.
09:52:02:00 When we look at the aerial, this building that I just
09:52:09:27 referenced in this location here, this is a subject
09:52:13:15 property.
09:52:13:24 The historic district runs here, so you're just
09:52:17:07 essentially at the southwest corner of that district.
09:52:20:12 This is the multistory property that existed.
09:52:23:00 There's been a development historically -- in this
09:52:29:21 location.
09:52:30:06 There's redevelopment in this location.
09:52:32:06 And in this location, and a prior project approved here
09:52:36:22 has not evolved.
09:52:38:15 There was another development that was approved here.
09:52:42:00 This is a contributing structure and then, obviously,
09:52:44:24 you have opportunity for redevelopment there.
09:52:47:00 So that's the basic premise of the A.R.C.'s decision.
09:52:50:21 They were adamant about it.
09:52:52:18 There were four individuals who were present and all
09:52:55:09 agreed that the PD site plan as presented did not
09:52:58:16 satisfy the design guidelines of Tampa Heights.
09:53:08:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to say you are really
09:53:10:07 an effective communicator of what our guidelines are.
09:53:12:25 And I hope that in the future you won't have a

09:53:15:16 conflict.
09:53:16:12 Because I think your testimony that evening might have
09:53:19:06 made a difference.
09:53:20:00 I really appreciate you being here this morning.
09:53:22:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Dennis or petitioner, do you have a

09:53:27:06 picture of the existing building that's there right
09:53:29:09 now?
09:53:29:24 I wanted to see it on the overhead.
09:53:38:04 Dennis, my question is to you as related to this
09:53:50:28 picture, we had a long discussion that night about the
09:53:53:21 project, and I know that there were certain things you
09:53:57:18 mentioned that the A.R.C. wasn't thrilled about, some
09:54:00:27 of the details and that sort of thing.
09:54:03:00 The thing that persuaded me to vote for this was this
09:54:08:13 building, because -- and I didn't mean to insult the
09:54:13:15 gentleman who owned it, but it's not an attractive
09:54:16:13 building and by far, it doesn't mean any standards for
09:54:21:07 the district.
09:54:22:00 So I looked at it as an opportunity to really upgrade
09:54:25:13 this building and then the other building.
09:54:29:04 The upgrade of this building I don't think anybody had
09:54:31:25 a problem with, correct?
09:54:33:24 >> That's correct.
09:54:34:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This building, the upgrade gets an
09:54:37:04 A, the other one gets a B, something like that.

09:54:40:00 Looking at it as a whole, I felt like this was an
09:54:43:06 opportunity, with the upgrade of this building, to go
09:54:45:27 ahead and approve it.
09:54:47:07 Did the A.R.C. look at this building and the upgrade of
09:54:50:09 this building as well?
09:54:51:24 >> I would like to explain, the A.R.C. supports
09:54:54:25 redevelopment within the district.
09:54:56:10 That's one of the fundamental tools to really
09:54:58:19 preserving the area and bringing the area back.
09:55:01:15 However, under its charge, in looking at this project,
09:55:05:10 as you said, at the two components, they supported the
09:55:10:16 renovation of this particular building.
09:55:12:22 It is sited somewhat consistent with the historic
09:55:15:24 pattern or development with the front setback and

09:55:18:07 whatnot.
09:55:18:22 So they felt that was something that could be
09:55:22:06 integrated in, even though it's an existing building
09:55:26:15 somewhat meeting the new construction criteria.
09:55:28:09 The second building and the model and the precedent
09:55:31:03 that that sets forth with allowing for parking beneath
09:55:34:27 buildings, which although I understand that the
09:55:37:12 contention of the applicant is that's going to be
09:55:39:19 shielded, we've seen from various examples that are
09:55:43:01 outside the historic district that those efforts
09:55:45:21 usually fall short of being successful.

09:55:48:22 That was the main concern of the board.
09:55:50:25 And once that is in the district, that will then come
09:55:54:00 up again as a basis for adding those maybe in areas
09:55:58:03 where there is nor historic fabric present.
09:56:00:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I appreciate that, too.
09:56:02:27 It's just to me, if you can tuck away and hide away a
09:56:06:15 dozen cars or however many will be under that building,
09:56:09:12 I think that's an advantage to the community as well.
09:56:12:10 A dozen cars you don't have to look at out in the
09:56:15:01 parking lot.
09:56:15:24 I appreciate all the work the A.R.C. does and all the
09:56:20:00 work you do.
09:56:20:21 I think on this one I'm in favor of an exception.
09:56:25:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano and councilwoman
09:56:28:27 Mulhern.
09:56:29:16 Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:56:31:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to point out, and
09:56:34:21 Mr. Dingfelder, this is not an historic structure, the
09:56:39:15 current structure.
09:56:40:10 And this is an opportunity in redevelopment to build
09:56:45:06 within the historic guidelines of that neighborhood,
09:56:48:03 make that neighborhood more consistent, more historic,
09:56:54:09 increase the property values and make it an urban
09:56:59:22 neighborhood that is being restored.
09:57:01:25 And if you drive down -- I know we saw these pictures

09:57:04:24 from staff, I'm pretty sure at the first hearing, but
09:57:08:10 if you drive east on 7th Avenue, you just go about a
09:57:12:22 block or two and there are a couple of beautiful
09:57:15:16 restored buildings that are being used as offices.
09:57:19:03 So I think that it's wrong to think that this is an
09:57:27:03 opportunity not to do the right thing and not to build
09:57:29:25 within the historic character.
09:57:31:09 It's an opportunity to do the right thing and build
09:57:34:12 something that fits in.
09:57:35:15 And this is a beautiful block, a gorgeous neighborhood
09:57:39:15 that if it did have a more consistent building,
09:57:44:06 something like this, which is entirely possible, and I
09:57:48:00 believe -- is this in the district?
09:57:50:15 Yes.
09:57:50:27 So there are examples of buildings, commercial and
09:57:55:13 residential, that fit -- would fit in beautifully.
09:57:59:06 And the fabric of the neighborhood, you know, these are
09:58:02:25 some of the threats.
09:58:03:25 This is a patch of it.
09:58:05:09 It's not that big of a neighborhood.
09:58:07:21 Every time that you say, okay, you don't have to build
09:58:11:04 within these designations, which the neighborhood wants
09:58:14:16 and approved, and which our historic preservation
09:58:20:15 people recommend, then you're just saying, okay, it
09:58:24:00 doesn't mean anything.

09:58:24:25 The guidelines don't mean anything and what the
09:58:27:03 neighborhood has voted on and decided to pursue doesn't
09:58:29:28 mean anything.
09:58:30:21 And so I can't support it.
09:58:32:27 I'd love to see a new building there that fits in with
09:58:36:28 our guidelines, and I honestly don't see why they can't
09:58:40:18 do that for -- I believe it's a law office.
09:58:44:03 And I just -- I think that we have to -- you know, we
09:58:49:00 can be outraged that we don't have historic buildings
09:58:52:01 and protect our historic buildings, but then we ought
09:58:54:12 to protect the historic fabric of our neighborhoods,
09:58:57:21 too.
09:59:02:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Would you just reiterate that your
09:59:06:03 issue was the parking below the building?
09:59:09:18 >> One of the concerns of the A.R.C. was the parking
09:59:12:28 below the building.
09:59:14:01 The model that sets forth.
09:59:16:12 And the fact that parking being situated below the
09:59:18:25 building is resulting in an entrance feature that
09:59:21:24 essentially consists of an elevator as you walk through
09:59:25:03 the door, some stairs perhaps.
09:59:26:28 There's not a defined entrance.
09:59:28:21 It changes the entire character of how the building
09:59:31:09 functions.
09:59:31:27 That's what the guidelines refer to under building


09:59:34:21 forms.
09:59:35:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:59:36:00 I think that's really the key.
09:59:37:10 What's being proposed by the petitioner is not an
09:59:40:00 unattractive building, but you shouldn't park
09:59:42:04 underneath it.
09:59:43:03 This is in an historic district, which is why the
09:59:46:12 A.R.C. gets to weigh in on it, which is why they have
09:59:49:19 objected to what you're proposing.
09:59:51:12 If you could have a two-story building with parking
09:59:54:13 behind it, it would be perfectly acceptable and
09:59:57:12 encouraged and appreciated.
09:59:59:21 But the form that you've proposed really isn't
10:00:02:07 consistent, which is why there was a unanimous vote by
10:00:04:18 the A.R.C. rejecting it.
10:00:06:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
10:00:08:03 Thank you, sir.
10:00:09:24 Five-minute rebuttal.
10:00:23:04 >> Once again, Mark Bentley.
10:00:25:18 Council, you had the opportunity to review the A.R.C.'s
10:00:28:18 recommendation to City Council concerning the zoning.
10:00:30:27 Clear the parking underneath was the issue.
10:00:33:00 No problem with the design.
10:00:34:15 You heard Dennis talk a lot about design issues and
10:00:37:12 those are more appropriate in the context of when you

10:00:39:27 go to the A.R.C. for design and review.
10:00:44:00 Their charge was to give a recommendation considering
10:00:46:21 land use compatibility at that location.
10:00:48:03 Our clients bought the property in 1983 when this was
10:00:52:06 essentially a war zone.
10:00:53:16 They rezoned the property in '83 to about 9500 square
10:00:58:27 feet.
10:00:59:09 We're asking for another 2200 square feet of
10:01:01:27 professional office.
10:01:02:19 Now, with respect to these design guidelines,
10:01:04:25 Mr. Chairman, you gave me five minutes, but I'm giving
10:01:08:01 you copies of the design guidelines.
10:01:09:16 They say essentially that's what they are.
10:01:11:12 They are guidelines.
10:01:12:12 Our client owns the renovated office structure directly
10:01:15:06 to the north in the same block.
10:01:18:03 The design guidelines aren't meant to apply to
10:01:22:03 commercial to emulate or simulate residential
10:01:25:21 structures.
10:01:26:03 That's kind of what's going on here.
10:01:27:24 I can take you through the design guidelines and show
10:01:29:28 you we fulfill those design guidelines.
10:01:33:06 Nowhere in the guidelines do they say parking
10:01:36:18 underneath is inappropriate.
10:01:37:25 They say you need to disguise or block the parking.

10:01:41:16 I have photos of Bush Ross across the street and
10:01:45:03 Stetson, where it's been very successful.
10:01:48:22 Also, there's a very important item I want to show you.
10:01:51:24 When the city weighed in on redeveloping this block and
10:01:54:16 I've given you a copy.
10:01:58:03 This is proposal for block 13, our client's property
10:02:00:27 from Florida to oak north of 7th Avenue.
10:02:03:09 You can see here what I'm pointing to is our client's
10:02:11:18 property and what the CDC on behalf of the city
10:02:14:27 proposed in this redevelopment plan was a five-story
10:02:18:03 building, and there's some parking underneath and then
10:02:20:16 a parking garage for the entire district on the western
10:02:23:04 half of the block.
10:02:23:27 The city essentially owns the western half of the
10:02:26:10 block.
10:02:26:21 I know I'm running out of time, but it was a good idea
10:02:29:25 when the city was proposing redevelopment there.
10:02:32:13 And I've got Susan elfman here, Mr. Chairman and
10:02:36:00 Council members, just to address a couple of the design
10:02:40:06 issues, which seems to be the crux.
10:02:43:06 >> My name is Susan.
10:02:44:12 I'm the project architect.
10:02:45:18 I just wanted to point out a couple of items in the
10:02:48:15 design guidelines.
10:02:49:06 In addition to what Mr. Fernandez already told you.

10:02:54:15 The style of the building is explicitly stated on page
10:03:00:04 5 of the guidelines, the Mediterranean style -- which
10:03:06:24 you also indicated is acceptable.
10:03:08:13 With regard to the parking under the building and
10:03:10:09 massing of the building, section of the guidelines on
10:03:12:22 page 45 which talk about massing and building form
10:03:15:25 specifically states that it is permissible to have a
10:03:18:09 building form, which is unique in Tampa Heights, but
10:03:22:09 relates to the neighboring buildings and to the
10:03:24:09 neighborhood through its overall massing.
10:03:27:03 While the Bush Ross building and Stetson building are
10:03:29:21 not in the historic district, they are neighboring and
10:03:32:19 they are in proximity, and they are more of the scale
10:03:35:15 of a commercial building that this building would
10:03:38:21 relate to.
10:03:39:10 Additionally, under the parking section on page 67, it
10:03:45:28 specifically states, it is permissible to provide
10:03:48:12 parking to meet the City of Tampa zoning code, which
10:03:51:16 does not distract from the visual character of the
10:03:55:00 Tampa Heights historic district, and it is permissible
10:03:58:18 to screen parking from the street with landscaping,
10:04:02:00 fencing, walls or buildings.
10:04:04:00 So we are attempting to provide -- we have asked for a
10:04:07:15 waiver for some parking spaces, but we are attempting
10:04:10:15 also to provide a visual screen and not to detract from

10:04:13:15 the character of the neighborhood by hiding some of
10:04:15:27 that parking while still meeting the zoning
10:04:18:10 requirements for parking.
10:04:19:10 In addition, it is not, you know, green building,
10:04:25:07 sustainable design are very popular, but very practical
10:04:30:09 and necessary ways of thinking about buildings today.
10:04:36:03 I think we would be irresponsible not to think that
10:04:38:28 way.
10:04:39:06 It would be irresponsible of us to tear down a
10:04:41:25 perfectly functional building in order to provide site
10:04:46:09 parking for a new building.
10:04:47:27 And that's why we've come to the solution where there's
10:04:50:21 parking under the building.
10:04:52:16 It's hidden.
10:04:53:15 It's screened.
10:04:54:12 It meets the stylistic guidelines of the neighborhood
10:04:57:09 and in addition, based on what I just said about
10:05:00:12 parking, we are using the guidelines to hide that.
10:05:07:06 >> There are some proponents.
10:05:10:27 Just one comment and then I'll take off.
10:05:12:27 Entire block 13, one contributing structure.
10:05:15:03 It's an old house that has been renovated.
10:05:18:06 That's my client's house.
10:05:19:27 To the south are townhomes, that's out of the district.
10:05:25:09 I've given you a photo of the multistory building

10:05:29:00 behind us which is not going to go away.
10:05:31:06 I think we've demonstrated we meet these somewhat
10:05:33:09 ambiguous design guidelines and clearly compatible.
10:05:36:12 The only hang-up is parking underneath, which no one
10:05:40:06 will ever see.
10:05:41:09 We have the owner here and a lot of people from the
10:05:43:06 neighborhood took time off today to testify before
10:05:45:19 Council.
10:05:46:04 Thank you.
10:05:46:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:05:47:07 Thank you very much.
10:06:04:27 >> My name is Harvey Schronbrun.
10:06:08:09 This is my office.

10:06:10:06 I was worn in this neighborhood across the street at
10:06:12:21 St. Joseph's Hospital.
10:06:15:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Just procedurally, Council, he's had
10:06:20:10 rebuttal.
10:06:21:06 Now we're asking public testimony early on.
10:06:24:01 So you need to correct us here procedurally.
10:06:27:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Ideally, Mr. Chairman, the procedure
10:06:30:06 would allow the petitioner an opportunity to provide
10:06:35:03 full case for 15 minutes up front and then allow for
10:06:39:04 public comment.
10:06:40:03 Or whatever staff and then to allow for rebuttal.
10:06:46:18 These people did not have an opportunity to speak

10:06:48:28 during Mr. Bentley's case in chief.
10:06:51:15 He did not invite them up at that time.
10:06:53:15 It's Council's pleasure whether it wishes to allow the
10:06:56:21 petitioner to do so at this time --
10:07:00:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to way of the rules.
10:07:02:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second and allow the public to speak
10:07:04:24 and anybody who wants to speak on this.
10:07:07:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We're slightly out of order.
10:07:10:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Second public hearings, Council,
10:07:12:06 sometimes that happens, unfortunately.
10:07:13:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me point out, Council.
10:07:15:28 Let's be aware.
10:07:17:27 We open it up for public comment and for the
10:07:20:28 petitioner.
10:07:21:24 The petitioner spoke and said I'm here available and
10:07:25:21 save for rebuttal.
10:07:27:01 He gave away that 15 minutes that he ordinarily would
10:07:33:15 have had.
10:07:33:27 When you invite them up, I'm here if you have any
10:07:38:04 questions.
10:07:38:18 I'll save whatever time for rebuttal, is that accurate.
10:07:42:15 That's what happened.
10:07:43:22 He pretty much waived all of that and moved right to
10:07:47:00 Mr. Fernandez.
10:07:47:24 At that point, Mr. Fernandez came forward and you began

10:07:50:12 asking questions.
10:07:50:27 Then at that point, we gave him opportunity for
10:07:57:03 rebuttal.
10:07:58:03 Once you open it up again for the public -- I'm just
10:08:09:00 pointing out to you what the process is.
10:08:11:00 Motion to waive your rules to allow the public to
10:08:14:25 speak.
10:08:15:06 All in favor, signify by aye.
10:08:17:27 All in favor signify by saying aye.
10:08:20:18 Opposed?
10:08:22:15 Okay.
10:08:23:03 Motion carried.
10:08:23:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Does that motion include having the
10:08:26:09 petitioner have his --
10:08:28:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: He has to have the last word.
10:08:30:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It also means what Mr. Bentley is
10:08:32:13 doing is providing people in support who are his
10:08:34:22 clients as part of his case.
10:08:36:10 Is that my understanding?
10:08:37:12 Is that part of the motion to allow that as well?
10:08:39:21 >> Yes.
10:08:40:06 >> There's only one person I guess you could say
10:08:43:18 relates to my case and that's Harvey.
10:08:45:12 The rest are the general public.
10:08:52:00 >> Thank you for your consideration.

10:08:53:04 I'll be brief.
10:08:53:27 As you were saying, I have tremendous ties to the
10:08:56:24 neighborhood.
10:08:57:12 I was born there.
10:08:58:09 My doctor was there.
10:09:00:04 Attended synagogue around the corner.
10:09:02:03 My mother was born three or four blocks north of this
10:09:04:27 property.
10:09:05:09 I love this neighborhood.
10:09:06:19 When we purchased it, it was a bomb shelter looking
10:09:09:07 type building.
10:09:10:00 It wasn't attractive.
10:09:11:00 We tried to fix it up.
10:09:12:10 It's still not an attractive building.
10:09:14:06 I've got Salvation Army across the street.
10:09:18:24 We had a lot of homeless people walking in the
10:09:20:21 neighborhood.
10:09:21:06 Thought that this was my opportunity to try to do
10:09:23:22 something beautiful for the neighborhood.
10:09:26:06 And the style of Stetson and Bush Ross.
10:09:31:10 Of course, I don't want cars parked on the streets like
10:09:34:04 in Hyde Park.
10:09:35:12 We thought keeping the parking contained under the
10:09:39:06 building would be a plus.
10:09:40:18 I haven't had any neighbors tell me that they don't

10:09:43:18 want this.
10:09:44:15 As a matter of fact, they've had all of the neighbors
10:09:45:25 telling me that they would love to see something like
10:09:49:12 this happen.
10:09:49:27 The only development that seems to have met the
10:09:52:16 guidelines that I've heard today was up the street
10:09:54:09 where they built one structure, never built any more
10:09:57:27 and it sits empty now five years after it was built.
10:10:01:03 So nothing, basically, is going on in the neighborhood.
10:10:03:21 Empty buildings, buildings for rent.
10:10:05:21 We believe this will be a spark for the Tampa Heights
10:10:09:07 neighborhood.
10:10:09:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name for the record.
10:10:11:21 >> Harvey Schronbrun.
10:10:16:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else wish to address Council?
10:10:28:18 >> My name is Todd cook.
10:10:30:00 I work at the office right next door to the law
10:10:32:21 offices.
10:10:33:16 Personally, we used to work in Westshore area district,
10:10:36:21 and we moved to this nice neighborhood, historic Tampa
10:10:39:16 Heights district, and I think what Harvey is trying to
10:10:43:09 do is really improve the neighborhood.
10:10:45:15 I've lived in Tampa over 20 years.
10:10:47:22 I've seen the city grow and there's not a development
10:10:50:07 that needs to be done.

10:10:51:15 I think these guys are really working on it the right
10:10:54:06 way.
10:10:54:16 Having seen the Ross building, the Stetson school, I
10:10:58:16 see this building as being a complement to that
10:11:00:16 historic district and what it can do for the area.
10:11:05:21 >> My name is Robert.
10:11:07:00 I work right next door to the project building.
10:11:11:03 Personally, I think it only improves the whole look of
10:11:14:01 the neighborhood.
10:11:14:24 And I don't think there's anything negative about it.
10:11:19:00 It's nothing but improvements.
10:11:20:18 And not only for this building, but also our building
10:11:24:06 will be improved.
10:11:26:09 >> My name is Chris SLOOP.
10:11:28:24 I also work next door to the building in question.
10:11:31:12 I, too, agree that it's a beautiful building in terms
10:11:34:03 of plan, and I don't think it will do anything except
10:11:36:21 help the neighborhood.
10:11:39:24 >> My name is Michael Batista.
10:11:42:04 I was here last time.
10:11:44:00 Some of you already know me, but I just think the whole
10:11:47:16 design concept would be good for the area.
10:11:51:13 If you're a common citizen, you stand on 7th Avenue
10:11:56:04 or Florida Avenue, you can't tell where the Tampa
10:12:00:13 Heights zoning area specifically starts and ends.

10:12:04:13 You just look over the whole area and basically, like
10:12:09:21 has been said already, the whole area basically empty
10:12:13:09 buildings, old structure buildings and nothing has
10:12:15:21 really been done except the Stetson university and the
10:12:18:27 bush building.
10:12:19:25 And I think this will be a big complement to the whole
10:12:23:03 area.
10:12:23:28 And the parking underneath, I think is fantastic.
10:12:27:09 I'd rather look at the building than look at an old
10:12:32:04 beat-up car or old car right across the street parked
10:12:36:19 in the middle of the road or on the side of the road.
10:12:39:21 I think all of you would agree if you were there.
10:12:42:15 So we're all for it.
10:12:44:00 Thank you.
10:12:46:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:12:47:06 Thank you.
10:12:47:09 >> Janelle Anson, 101 South 12th Street.
10:12:59:16 I'm here basically to say what it sounds like is we
10:13:03:18 have good in front of us but we don't have excellent or
10:13:08:27 great.
10:13:10:18 I stand here having worked extensively with my
10:13:13:09 neighborhood, East Tampa, Hyde Park, Tampa citizens for
10:13:16:18 good government, it's a long list.
10:13:18:15 What we're saying is we don't want printed on cups

10:13:21:19 we'll be the next greatest city and buy it in bulk

10:13:25:15 because we'll wait to be.
10:13:26:19 Put a stake in the ground.
10:13:28:00 Dennis made a very good point.
10:13:29:22 The gentlemen are saying parking is fine where it is.
10:13:32:03 A.R.C. is saying we need to make it better so we can
10:13:35:25 the best.
10:13:36:18 What you said, Mulhern is excellent.
10:13:39:12 I'm grateful for the questions you are clarifying
10:13:41:28 Saul-Sena.

10:13:42:13 And thank you Dingfelder for coming clear why you came
10:13:47:27 forward.
10:13:48:15 Look what happened to the linear park on Westshore at
10:13:51:04 one point.
10:13:51:22 Take a good look.
10:13:53:21 The reason we have guidelines and I come from the
10:13:55:21 Channel District is so you have a say for those who
10:13:57:28 voted you in the office.
10:13:59:18 They are guidelines.
10:14:00:16 You get to interpret them for the community and the
10:14:03:07 people you represent that will make this city great.
10:14:05:25 You have the opportunity, you have the chance.
10:14:08:03 That's why they are guidelines.
10:14:09:16 If they weren't guidelines, they would be code and you
10:14:12:00 would have to wait to change the code.
10:14:14:03 These are guidelines.

10:14:15:10 Listen to what Dennis is saying.
10:14:17:06 Listen to what public is here.
10:14:18:18 They are not all here.
10:14:19:28 We have jobs and I'm grateful to my employer.
10:14:24:16 After a while, we stop the e-mails and phone calls and
10:14:28:10 start buying mugs in bulk at the airport, we'll be the
10:14:31:07 next great city.
10:14:32:15 Let's look at good, but let's see if we can get better
10:14:35:13 and best, because there's a lot going on in the Tampa
10:14:38:10 Heights area and I know this and there are buildings
10:14:41:21 going up that haven't been mentioned so that
10:14:43:21 insinuation isn't correct.
10:14:46:04 Listen to the comments.
10:14:49:03 Consider like you have others and please, let's get
10:14:52:01 better and best going.
10:14:54:06 Guidelines are here for you, but they are here for you
10:14:56:13 to interpret for the people who voted you in office.
10:14:59:12 Thank you.
10:15:11:21 >> Mr. Chairman, here again, we can debate the design
10:15:14:24 guidelines.
10:15:15:06 They are not really crystal clear.
10:15:17:06 We can make a case based on the guidelines.
10:15:19:24 Likewise you've heard from staff.
10:15:21:16 I want to clarify one point, Dennis had mentioned in
10:15:24:12 his testimony that allowing parking underneath the

10:15:27:00 building was unprecedented in the historic districts,
10:15:30:18 and the Barrio Latino Commission last year in
10:15:35:03 connection with the project known as turnstile
10:15:37:16 approved -- it's at 5th and 13th -- approved this
10:15:43:04 project with parking underneath, and, actually, City
10:15:45:15 Council approved this project -- I think it predated
10:15:48:06 some of the newer members, latter part of 2006, at
10:15:51:01 5th and 13th, sitting on the elmo.
10:15:53:24 It was endorsed by the A.R.C. staff or barrio Latino
10:15:58:00 staff.
10:16:02:09 It's not unprecedented.
10:16:03:22 I can give you all the case number and things like that
10:16:03:22 if you are interested.
10:16:04:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Does this back up to the railroad
10:16:06:27 tracks?
10:16:07:19 >> Yes.
10:16:09:24 >> That's true.
10:16:10:16 The point is, he has said there is parking underneath.
10:16:14:09 It was unprecedented and it's precedented.
10:16:17:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:16:18:21 Motion to close.
10:16:19:21 All in favor, let it be known by aye.
10:16:24:01 Councilman Dingfelder, you had a question.
10:16:28:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If guidelines were meant to be
10:16:30:03 strictly followed, then we wouldn't need to be

10:16:33:24 addressing it.
10:16:34:09 The reason we are here is to look at the guidelines.
10:16:36:27 Page six right in the middle of the page says
10:16:39:24 guidelines are not a means to dictate specific
10:16:42:25 solutions that must always prevail nor are they rules
10:16:45:18 and regulations.
10:16:46:18 Instead, they provide consistent guidelines.
10:16:49:01 And then further on, it says it is permissible in
10:16:57:01 regard to parking.
10:16:58:12 It says it is permissible to provide parking to meet
10:17:01:06 the City Code, which does not distract from the visual
10:17:04:24 character of the district.
10:17:05:24 It is permissible to screen parking from the street
10:17:10:09 with landscaping, fencing, walls or buildings.
10:17:12:24 That's what the gentlemen are trying to do.
10:17:14:22 I think on the whole, we have to look at these things
10:17:17:12 holistically.
10:17:18:07 We can't look at every single little nitty-gritty
10:17:21:03 detail.
10:17:21:15 We have to look at the big picture.
10:17:23:10 They are improving a really poor structure, and they
10:17:25:24 are adding a decent structure.
10:17:28:03 On the whole, I think we should support it and support
10:17:30:18 Tampa Heights.
10:17:31:09 There is not one neighborhood person.

10:17:33:01 Ms. Mulhern, you said to me we have to support the
10:17:36:03 neighborhood.
10:17:36:15 Not one neighborhood person came in front of us last
10:17:39:16 hearing or this hearing to oppose this.
10:17:42:03 So I am supportive of the neighborhood.
10:17:44:24 This neighborhood wants redevelopment, and this is good
10:17:47:21 redevelopment.
10:17:48:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:17:49:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:17:51:12 Mr. Schronbrun has been a real pioneer in Tampa
10:17:57:04 Heights.
10:17:58:00 I applaud the fact that he has had a professional
10:18:01:15 office there for years.
10:18:03:03 He's a great guy, a conscientious person and I think he
10:18:06:25 wants to do something beautiful here.
10:18:08:18 My problem here is that in my estimation and in the
10:18:12:04 estimation of the preservation board, this proposal
10:18:17:12 doesn't meet the sense of what the form of Tampa
10:18:21:24 Heights is, which is to not have parking underneath
10:18:24:27 structures.
10:18:25:09 If you had proposed new structure and the parking
10:18:28:12 behind it, I would have no problem with it.
10:18:30:22 I won't be able to support what's before us.
10:18:33:00 I caution us about the approval of this, because
10:18:35:07 Mr. Bentley and I both have long memories, and I'm

10:18:38:18 certain that if he's up here again in the Tampa Heights
10:18:41:04 area, he will cite this as a precedent for us approving
10:18:45:15 this.
10:18:45:27 I really believe if we approve this particular parking
10:18:48:15 under the structure, we will not hear the end of it,
10:18:51:10 and it will change the character of Tampa Heights.
10:18:58:18 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: As I said at the last meeting, I
10:19:00:21 appreciate what Ms. Saul-Sena has done for 17 years.
10:19:04:27 Okay.
10:19:05:07 We need to change if we're going to be the next great
10:19:07:18 city.
10:19:08:00 If somebody wants to spend all this money to revitalize
10:19:11:21 this area, we've got to make a change.
10:19:14:22 If we don't start here today, we'll never get there.
10:19:18:13 Mr. Fernandez, do they want parking on the street up
10:19:21:04 there?
10:19:25:25 >> Can't ask a question.
10:19:28:12 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: If we're going to be the next great
10:19:30:24 city, I've been here 20 years, we're in a stalemate.
10:19:34:01 We're not getting anywhere except spending money.
10:19:36:22 Thank you.
10:19:41:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I just have to point out that most of
10:19:43:24 the neighborhood activists have jobs and can't be here
10:19:47:00 during the day.
10:19:47:27 They are not paid to come here and convince you to

10:19:52:10 preserve their neighborhood.
10:19:53:21 And they -- they worked long and hard on these
10:20:03:04 guidelines for their neighborhood.
10:20:07:22 So I think it's our responsibility to remember that
10:20:09:18 work they did and to speak for them when they are not
10:20:12:09 here.
10:20:12:21 I'm not going to support this because I think Tampa is
10:20:20:04 never going to be anything different than it is if we
10:20:22:07 don't raise our standards a little bit and we don't
10:20:27:03 little by little try to preserve what we have.
10:20:29:18 So I can't support you.
10:20:34:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not going to get into a debate
10:20:37:00 with the honorable Council member of district 2 Mulhern
10:20:40:06 and Dingfelder district 4.
10:20:42:15 I'm not going to go out and step on any big toes or
10:20:46:12 those that are elected citywide.
10:20:49:03 But let me say this, Tampa is the best city.
10:20:55:27 Not the next greatest city.
10:20:57:25 If it wasn't, we wouldn't have any population coming
10:21:00:27 in.
10:21:01:12 If it's so bad here, what are we all doing here?
10:21:05:27 Got the lowest crime.
10:21:07:09 People come here for various reasons.
10:21:16:15 The weather, the weather, and the weather.
10:21:19:10 You have summer and Christmas.

10:21:20:04 That's it.
10:21:20:06 That's why they come.
10:21:20:24 I can't stop them.
10:21:22:12 We've had a fantastic change.
10:21:24:00 A multitude of things have happened.
10:21:26:00 What was Tampa Heights just ten years ago?
10:21:27:18 Who was going to move into Tampa Heights ten years ago?
10:21:27:19 Not too many.
10:21:27:25 This government and the prior administration have taken
10:21:38:09 the outlook of making every neighborhood a place to
10:21:42:10 live, a place where you could have a better city.
10:21:44:28 I'm not going to say great.
10:21:47:10 No city is great.
10:21:48:10 All of us have faults.
10:21:49:21 All of us in government have faults.
10:21:51:06 But we must take responsibility for what we see and
10:21:54:18 what we have to do.
10:21:55:21 So when I realize these things and look at these
10:21:58:24 things, I have to agree with my colleague
10:22:01:15 Mr. Dingfelder on this one.
10:22:03:10 That doesn't mean I agree with you on another one.
10:22:07:24 I won't always agree with you like somebody said here.
10:22:14:04 I'll say this, I feel confident that what is being
10:22:17:21 done, and I remember what they said about the hospital
10:22:22:00 that was located there.

10:22:23:07 You know what, that's gone, been gone, been moved.
10:22:30:10 Everybody moved out, that used to be an area where
10:22:33:12 people of big means used to live at.
10:22:35:27 Big brick homes.
10:22:37:03 Tall 18-foot ceilings inside.
10:22:40:18 They are all gone.
10:22:40:18 There was a doctor.
10:22:40:21 There were lot of business people who lived there, and
10:22:40:21 through the years when people pass on, their children
10:22:49:12 want to see an adventure.
10:22:50:19 They want to move somewhere else.
10:22:52:21 The grass is always greener on the other side of the
10:22:55:24 fence.
10:22:56:24 That's what happened at Tampa Heights.
10:22:58:27 We certainly have spent a lot of money in restoring the
10:23:00:24 homes and doing different things.
10:23:02:12 I can name you a few of them but I won't because of the
10:23:04:25 time.
10:23:05:10 And I just feel confident that this Council will do the
10:23:08:03 right thing.
10:23:08:24 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:23:18:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
10:23:21:22 Read the ordinance.
10:23:29:22 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Ordinance presented for second
10:23:31:06 reading, ordinance rezoning property in the general

10:23:33:22 vicinity of 1802 North Morgan Street in the City of
10:23:37:09 Tampa, Florida, and more particularly described in
10:23:40:15 section 1 from zoning district classification PD
10:23:43:15 planned development, business/professional office to
10:23:46:09 PD, planned development, business/professional office,
10:23:50:06 providing an effective date.
10:23:51:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved by Councilman Caetano
10:23:54:12 and seconded by Councilman Dingfelder.
10:23:57:09 Record your vote.
10:24:07:21 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Mulhern and
10:24:10:18 Saul-Sena voting no.
10:24:15:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: May have time to take up one more
10:24:18:07 before staff reports.
10:24:19:10 Item 82.
10:24:20:21 Anyone wish to address Council?
10:24:23:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:24:25:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:24:26:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is the petitioner here?
10:24:28:00 Does the petitioner want to address Council?
10:24:37:09 >> Move to close.
10:24:38:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, aye.
10:24:40:24 Mulhern, item 82.
10:24:42:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
10:24:43:06 I move an ordinance rezoning property in the general
10:24:45:15 vicinity of 10701 north Nebraska Avenue and 904 east

10:24:49:27 Seneca Avenue in the City of Tampa, Florida, more
10:24:52:12 particularly described in section one from zoning
10:24:55:12 district classification RS-50, residential
10:24:57:25 single-family to PD, planned development,
10:25:01:00 business/professional office, providing an effective
10:25:02:25 date.
10:25:03:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
10:25:05:18 Seconded by councilman Charlie Miranda.
10:25:09:10 Record your vote.
10:25:16:28 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Saul-Sena being
10:25:19:04 absent at vote.
10:25:23:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 83.
10:25:25:06 Is the petitioner here?
10:25:27:27 Anyone wish to address Council?
10:25:29:10 Petitioner, you wish to address Council on item number
10:25:33:21 83?
10:25:34:13 Motion to close?
10:25:36:07 >> So move.
10:25:37:10 >> Second.
10:25:37:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
10:25:40:10 Opposed?
10:25:41:00 Councilman Miranda, would you read 83.
10:25:45:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move an ordinance rezoning
10:25:48:15 property in the general vicinity of 201 south
10:25:51:13 MacDill Avenue, in the City of Tampa of, Florida,

10:25:55:06 and more particularly described in section 1 from
10:25:58:00 zoning district classification PD planned development,
10:26:00:15 massage therapy, to PD, planned development, medical
10:26:03:24 office, providing an effective date.
10:26:04:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilman Dingfelder.
10:26:07:04 Record your vote, please.
10:26:16:12 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Mulhern and
10:26:18:21 Saul-Sena being absent at vote.
10:26:22:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to take up these time certain
10:26:24:21 items here on 84, 85 and 86.
10:26:29:07 Those are the assessments.
10:26:36:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open.
10:26:37:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Second.
10:26:38:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
10:26:42:03 Item 84.
10:26:44:01 >>SAL TERRITO: Sal Territo, Legal Department.
10:26:48:04 Item number 84 is for the downtown special assessment
10:26:54:00 district, you have before you the resolution and all
10:26:57:07 the attachments.
10:26:58:06 I'd also like to submit at this time the affidavit or
10:27:01:01 the certificate of accuracy of the assessment roll, if
10:27:04:00 I may.
10:27:04:21 Any action you take has to be done during the public
10:27:16:18 hearing.
10:27:16:28 Please don't close the public hearing before you take

10:27:18:27 action on any of these items.
10:27:20:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:27:20:27 Anyone from the public wish to address Council?
10:27:23:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Sir, did you wish to take them
10:27:26:03 individually.
10:27:33:03 >> Christine Burdick with the Tampa Downtown
10:27:35:12 Partnership.
10:27:36:00 We are pleased again to be before you to ask for your
10:27:40:22 approval of the special assessment district for
10:27:42:24 downtown, the greater downtown area, which includes the
10:27:46:04 Channel District as well as what's known as the
10:27:48:16 downtown core.
10:27:49:22 We have visited with each one of you.
10:27:54:21 Happy to say this has been -- we're halfway through
10:27:57:07 this year of activity, and have been able to deliver
10:28:02:22 the services that we pledge to.
10:28:05:06 We are looking forward next year to be able to further
10:28:09:01 mechanize and expand our cleaning and our ambassador
10:28:14:06 guides, crews.
10:28:16:12 We have specifically because we have more residents
10:28:18:15 now, they have become a large part of our base.
10:28:22:07 We are building things into the program that will
10:28:24:24 benefit both the commercial and the private property
10:28:27:18 owners, the individual residential property owners.
10:28:30:19 We have an ambitious retail recruitment and retention

10:28:34:24 program planned for next year.
10:28:36:18 So we see that as an investment that will keep
10:28:40:00 delivering both more vitality to downtown, but things
10:28:43:15 to bring the residential lifestyle up, including some
10:28:48:04 beautification efforts that we do and certainly we know
10:28:51:15 that the clean team and the guides provide services to
10:28:55:15 all, but a special amenity to the residential.
10:28:59:12 We'll be able to expand the hours a little bit next
10:29:01:15 year due to some mechanization and to the small
10:29:05:07 increase in the assessments that we will experience
10:29:07:19 next year.
10:29:08:12 Unless you have any questions, I have delivered
10:29:13:06 information to all of you, and we will be here to ask
10:29:16:01 any questions if they are presented, and we request
10:29:22:10 your approval.
10:29:26:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker on item 84.
10:29:29:24 >> Charlie Salier.
10:29:31:09 1002 Channelside unit 2-E.
10:29:34:15 I received three special assessments on my particular
10:29:38:13 unit over the past two weeks totaling about $500.
10:29:42:21 >> That means you're extra special, right?
10:29:45:15 >> I guess I am.
10:29:46:04 [ LAUGHTER ]
10:29:47:03 It's a bit frustrating this unit, it's a one-bedroom,
10:29:50:03 one bath located at the corner of Channelside and

10:29:55:06 Washington.
10:29:55:07 $7,000 per year is what the taxes are.
10:29:56:27 I have the tax roll if anybody wants to look at it.
10:30:00:12 You know, once again, you know, the area demographics
10:30:07:00 projected the household income be $51,608.
10:30:11:01 This was done a couple of years ago.
10:30:13:06 Obviously, the revitalization of that area has not
10:30:16:10 happened.
10:30:17:13 There are so many vacancies, my understanding, the
10:30:20:18 front page of "The Tampa Tribune" today has 101
10:30:23:19 foreclosed units for sale.
10:30:28:09 Two of the fifteen units in our building are in
10:30:31:00 foreclosure.
10:30:31:19 Five of the retails are currently vacant.
10:30:33:25 The biggest problem is taxes.
10:30:38:12 $51,000 of a hopefully guesstimated annual income,
10:30:42:27 you're talking close to 15%, 18% just for their taxes.
10:30:48:00 I firmly disagree with this.
10:30:51:00 Fourth generation Tampa resident, and I just think
10:30:53:18 we're getting taxed to death.
10:30:55:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You had the tax --
10:31:00:22 >> I sure do.
10:31:02:09 This particular building.
10:31:04:25 It's the four-story building at the corner of
10:31:07:03 Channelside and Washington.

10:31:08:13 And it produces -- I don't know if you guys can see
10:31:12:18 that --
10:31:13:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You can just pass it up.
10:31:15:22 >> $104,000 last year for the 15 units --
10:31:23:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You have to talk into the mike, sir.
10:31:26:19 >> $104,000 for the 15 units before any assessments.
10:31:30:22 10 of them being rentals.
10:31:34:10 There's a square footage breakdown on there as well.
10:31:37:18 Once again, my particular unit is 1500-square-foot,
10:31:40:21 it's a pretty large layout, however, it's a one
10:31:43:15 bedroom, one-and-a-half bath unit.
10:31:45:19 One car parking garage.
10:31:47:21 And with these assessments, it's going to be in excess
10:31:50:15 of $7,000 a year in taxes for a one bedroom, one bath
10:31:56:21 unit.
10:31:57:01 I really can't grasp it.
10:31:58:19 We look at the streetcar.
10:32:00:12 I Googled last night the City of Tampa waste,
10:32:05:09 et cetera, and just Hartline pops up, one of the first
10:32:09:09 few things.
10:32:09:28 Of course, goes back many years, just misappropriation
10:32:12:27 of funds and so forth.
10:32:14:03 And I think we could tighten up somewhere else in lieu
10:32:17:09 of taxing this area out of price range for the normal
10:32:21:00 average citizens to come in there and live.

10:32:23:09 The demographics that I've shown you here obviously not
10:32:30:12 happened, many of the buildings are very vacant.
10:32:32:22 There's no retail at all.
10:32:34:22 I'm sure if any of you guys drive through there,
10:32:37:13 there's nothing down there.
10:32:38:21 Nobody can afford it.
10:32:44:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we all sympathize, that's a
10:32:47:22 big tax bill.
10:32:48:27 When you bought this thing within the last year or two.
10:32:53:15 >> No, I bought it in '03 preconstruction under the
10:32:56:24 whole we're going to revitalize this district.
10:33:02:03 I bought it in '02 actually.
10:33:04:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You were an early pioneer on it.
10:33:06:12 These fees, these assessments have been in place for
10:33:11:01 quite a while.
10:33:12:28 >> Not the additional assessments here.
10:33:14:19 This is an additional $500 that you're talking on a
10:33:17:27 single unit.
10:33:19:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Additional because of the streetcar?
10:33:25:28 >> Streetcar, the Tampa commerce.
10:33:27:21 I forget the name of it, which I fully appreciate.
10:33:31:12 Unfortunately, I don't think the fruition has appeared.
10:33:34:28 We're getting killed down there.
10:33:37:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All right.
10:33:38:06 I'll get a clarification on that.

10:33:40:03 But, basically, you knew that there were going to be
10:33:42:13 some assessments when you purchased it.
10:33:45:10 >> Absolutely not.
10:33:45:25 I just received this in the mail, three of them.
10:33:48:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, no.
10:33:49:24 When you purchased in '03, you did your due diligence
10:33:52:19 to look into --
10:33:53:27 >> In '03, the taxes were projected to be about $2500
10:33:59:24 per unit.
10:34:00:16 We're close to triple that now.
10:34:02:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: By who?
10:34:03:15 >> By the developer and what was going on down there.
10:34:05:27 There was nothing to set precedents as far as taxes.
10:34:08:03 There was very minimal residential at that time.
10:34:11:00 I have a $12 stormwater.
10:34:12:18 I've got $101 historic electric streetcar project and a
10:34:18:03 $300 safety maintenance marketing and beautification
10:34:22:06 and transportation.
10:34:22:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay, thank you.
10:34:27:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like a clarification from
10:34:29:18 staff.
10:34:29:27 And that is, is what's before us today an increase over
10:34:36:15 last year?
10:34:39:15 It's my understanding -- and I've been on council for a
10:34:40:21 number of years -- that we have not increased the

10:34:43:00 assessments.
10:34:43:15 What is proposed this year is not an increase over last
10:34:46:00 year's assessment.
10:34:47:10 >>SAL TERRITO: No, it is.
10:34:48:21 It's the same assessment as last year.
10:34:50:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What we're really talking about is
10:34:52:28 not the square footage of your unit, not the size of
10:34:55:24 the unit.
10:34:56:12 This is the dialogue, this is me talking.
10:34:58:06 I'm really sorry, but the truth is, things were heavy,
10:35:01:07 things were booming, and people paid a lot for units.
10:35:04:12 And your taxes are a portion of your purchase price,
10:35:07:06 which is the value.
10:35:08:03 We as City Council have not increased -- what's before
10:35:13:25 us today is not an increase over last year.
10:35:16:00 And I don't believe it's an increase over the year
10:35:18:13 before.
10:35:18:28 So I'm saying that whether people are in their units,
10:35:23:06 whether they are trying to flip them, whether the
10:35:26:03 developer still holds them, that isn't what is before
10:35:29:01 us today.
10:35:29:16 What's before us today is an assessment, which is not
10:35:32:09 an increase over last year, although we know that the
10:35:35:07 price of providing city services increases.
10:35:38:09 I'm sympathetic, but it's not a dialogue, thank you.

10:35:46:04 >> [not at microphone]
10:35:48:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You can't talk, though.
10:35:50:09 You've had your three minutes or three-and-a-half
10:35:53:21 minutes.
10:35:54:16 >> [not at microphone]
10:35:56:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, that's not how it works.
10:35:58:22 No, that's not how it works.
10:36:00:12 You get one bite at the apple.
10:36:02:24 I'm sorry, sir.
10:36:06:00 >> [not at microphone]
10:36:09:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
10:36:13:07 >> Hi.
10:36:13:22 My name is Gary garrison.
10:36:15:09 I own unit 2008 in Skypoint.
10:36:18:09 I just wanted to reiterate the gentleman before me as
10:36:22:24 far as opposing assessments.
10:36:25:16 You can call them taxes, assessments, whatever they
10:36:28:01 are.
10:36:28:24 I have no problem paying for my realty tax on had the
10:36:33:10 condo unit I own.
10:36:35:16 However, if I continue to get more and more special
10:36:39:03 assessments for projects such as the Ybor railcar, I
10:36:44:25 simply cannot continue to live in a city that's going
10:36:47:21 to assess everything, every little special project.
10:36:52:13 I mean, where does it end in my view?

10:36:55:27 Like I said, I bought the property, I have no problem
10:36:58:10 paying the real estate tax.
10:37:00:03 That's fine, but for special projects, you can't assess
10:37:03:15 the citizens.
10:37:04:24 Every dollar you suppress of mine, I can't go down the
10:37:08:04 treat to hat tricks.
10:37:09:04 I can't go to USF games.
10:37:12:04 I can't do that stuff, so keep that in mind when you're
10:37:15:15 giving out special assessments for beautification and
10:37:18:19 things like that.
10:37:19:25 Certainly stormwater, Tampa's necessity.
10:37:25:18 I'm willing to pay for that.
10:37:27:19 But special assessments for pet projects such as the
10:37:31:01 historic Ybor assessment that I got.
10:37:35:28 I really can't see it.
10:37:37:09 And I'm not quite sure how this helps the downtown
10:37:42:00 Tampa business, which is what I'd like to see you all
10:37:44:28 address, being a young professional in the city, I
10:37:47:06 would like more businesses down there.
10:37:50:10 I don't see the relation between having a historic
10:37:54:10 railcar or maybe some beautification projects.
10:37:59:01 What I want are high-paying jobs in downtown.
10:38:01:16 So I just want to state my opposition to that, and
10:38:04:21 thank you all for your time.
10:38:05:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

10:38:07:21 Councilman Dingfelder.
10:38:12:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The homesteaded properties in the
10:38:15:21 Channel District are downtown are exempted.
10:38:18:21 >>SAL TERRITO: Downtown I don't believe is.
10:38:21:06 I think the Channel District is and I think Westshore.
10:38:23:18 I don't think downtown is.
10:38:24:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Not downtown.
10:38:25:15 But in Channel District which is where the two
10:38:28:09 gentlemen have come from recently.
10:38:29:16 >>SAL TERRITO: It's possible --
10:38:31:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Skypoint is downtown.
10:38:33:21 I was thinking Skypoint was Channelside.
10:38:35:27 But homestead --
10:38:43:22 >>SAL TERRITO: Streetcar and Westshore do exempt the
10:38:46:03 homestead.
10:38:46:18 The downtown does not exempt the homestead.
10:38:49:09 If I said it differently, that's what I was trying to
10:38:52:09 say.
10:38:52:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is everybody comfortable with that?
10:38:57:16 >> The downtown special assessment record -- Christine
10:39:02:00 Burdick, Downtown Partnership.
10:39:03:07 The downtown assessment which you're hearing about
10:39:06:01 right now covers the whole area that includes Channel
10:39:08:25 District as well as downtown.
10:39:11:03 The historic streetcar exempts homesteaded properties.

10:39:15:00 The assessment district for downtown and Channel
10:39:17:21 District for management services was instituted in 1994
10:39:22:06 and residents were included then and this has never
10:39:25:00 been changed.
10:39:26:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
10:39:26:22 Thanks for that clarification.
10:39:29:15 I think that's important to note that for anybody who
10:39:31:25 is complaining about the streetcar, if you're
10:39:34:12 homesteaded, then you're not going to be assessed for
10:39:37:07 the streetcar in Ybor, Channelside or in downtown, for
10:39:44:27 what it's worth.
10:39:46:09 Maybe the people that we're hearing from are not
10:39:48:21 necessarily homesteaded.
10:39:50:06 I don't know.
10:39:54:22 >> Mark Alma, 1120 East Kennedy Boulevard.
10:39:58:24 Not just here for myself but also I guess can say
10:40:04:18 elected representative for owners of grand central
10:40:06:21 which probably right now about 200 owners of the 400
10:40:09:24 units.
10:40:10:04 Just to clarify just for a second only because it's
10:40:13:00 taken me a month to learn about the special assessment
10:40:15:16 and I'm spending all this time trying to learn city
10:40:18:12 politics, I don't think most people know that 1994,
10:40:20:25 this is a special assessment where we get the letter,
10:40:23:03 the special assessment makes it sound like this is new.

10:40:26:03 It was just this year, and that's what comes to us and
10:40:29:09 that's why everybody is confused.
10:40:30:27 I've get hundreds of e-mails and not one in support,
10:40:35:12 just so you know.
10:40:36:15 Having said that, after spending the last month of
10:40:39:03 trying to first find out what this is all about and
10:40:41:09 then talking with Linda with the Downtown Partnership,
10:40:44:25 I like what the Downtown Partnership does.
10:40:46:21 I understand that it's been here since 1994.
10:40:49:07 So the vote today isn't going to change no matter what
10:40:52:01 anybody says here and I know that.
10:40:54:01 All I want to do is propose something, 23 to 25 percent
10:40:58:01 increase, not an increase per person for last year, but
10:41:00:27 just because there's that many more people paying into
10:41:04:03 the assessment this year, it's 23% more.
10:41:06:13 Of that, a quarter of that money is set aside for
10:41:09:09 marketing and business development.
10:41:10:21 Having that in mind, the one thing that we've had
10:41:13:06 meetings talking about this, we all felt the same
10:41:15:19 thing.
10:41:16:07 Residents are not getting a dime out of this.
10:41:19:01 It's good for downtown.
10:41:20:09 It's good for the development, good to keep the streets
10:41:22:19 clean.
10:41:23:18 Good for the marketing of the city.

10:41:25:09 What I would like to see, you would get a lot more
10:41:28:24 support from the residents, from me and I would push
10:41:31:01 this out as much as I could as well.
10:41:33:12 Next year at the hearing, you have more people in
10:41:36:09 support of this, if you would spend more of the money
10:41:38:27 for the residents.
10:41:44:15 The one thing we're missing is a grocery store.
10:41:47:21 We have all these special assessments that I would like
10:41:50:07 to see and have a commitment from the city and from the
10:41:52:12 Downtown Partnership that we'll take that next step and
10:41:55:09 say we'll put this on as a high priority to help offset
10:42:00:06 taxes whatever we have to do to get retail into the
10:42:03:22 buildings down there.
10:42:04:27 We'll have a unique city.
10:42:06:10 You won't need to drive.
10:42:08:06 I think that's a great concept and that you could get
10:42:11:12 support on, I'm sure.
10:42:15:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:42:16:01 I like that.
10:42:16:16 >> Janelle Anson, 101 South 12th Street.
10:42:28:15 I, too, received the e-mails including from Mark
10:42:31:06 reaching out from the new building opened up.
10:42:33:13 We're looking forward to the next buildings and the
10:42:35:27 next wave that comes down with the same frustration
10:42:37:27 which goes back to what was originally handed out,

10:42:40:10 communication.
10:42:40:21 You saw the Tampa Downtown Partnership and Christine
10:42:43:09 Burdick came out and spoke at our monthly open forum.
10:42:47:03 We're slowly getting ourselves submitted to the city to
10:42:50:00 be recognized again.
10:42:51:09 Working with historic Hyde Park as our mentor.
10:42:53:25 What we're looking for with her group is take the
10:42:58:04 different sections and what I'll have here, I'll put

10:43:01:09 down just on front, you'll see if you look, it's
10:43:05:21 project charter.
10:43:06:13 This is a template.
10:43:08:25 In the next -- what this project charter shows, at the
10:43:12:24 beginning, it gives a purpose.
10:43:14:19 We then went to their Web site and pulled out their
10:43:17:18 different groups, which are arts and culture.
10:43:20:19 If you switch it over to this, arts and culture and
10:43:24:09 under purpose, the purpose -- and it shows at the very
10:43:27:12 beginning, who would be the sponsor.
10:43:29:04 You're the sponsor, where is the money coming from?
10:43:31:15 It's coming from the special assessment.
10:43:33:04 Look, this is just what Alaska do.
10:43:35:07 Many states do and it clearly shows what is the budget
10:43:39:01 specifically out of the full special assessment.
10:43:41:04 And what are the man-hours.
10:43:43:16 Let us see the projects for the residents and

10:43:46:03 businesses down there.
10:43:47:10 Let's have some accountability so we're not as
10:43:49:13 frustrated as to why the bill is so high and I don't
10:43:51:21 see anything, maybe there's a lot of good work going on
10:43:54:07 but we're not communicating it.
10:43:55:25 We know we're spending money, and all we see are
10:43:58:18 presentations.
10:43:59:10 We don't have the accountability.
10:44:00:25 This is basic project management.
10:44:02:13 The projects going on with the Downtown Partnership do
10:44:05:09 do this.
10:44:06:09 Standard practice.
10:44:08:19 The packet you were handed earlier, if you go through,
10:44:12:25 second one, we broke it up so it says very clearly on
10:44:16:07 it, as I go through my paperwork here, planning and
10:44:20:12 management.
10:44:20:22 And where did we get the titles of these?
10:44:22:27 If you go to their Web site, it very clearly breaks
10:44:26:21 down their committees and we put the project manager as
10:44:29:06 the staff contact.
10:44:30:12 That should be the key contact.
10:44:31:27 Under each of the five headings, they are going to have
10:44:35:09 their subprojects, things like bring the grocery store
10:44:38:10 or where is the dry cleaner or marketing.
10:44:41:25 That's a subproject.

10:44:43:00 At least we then know.
10:44:44:21 At the end of the day, well, it's always nice to have
10:44:47:12 and this is standard practice for them internally and
10:44:50:15 anyone.
10:44:51:03 I'm a program manager, I do this for a living.
10:44:55:01 They submit and love to have on file, where is the
10:44:58:04 status of the project.
10:44:59:00 Is there emergency, is there an issue and do we have
10:45:01:16 risks?
10:45:02:04 There might be a risk, but it's low.
10:45:04:09 This is all standard practice.
10:45:05:27 But if you don't start asking for it, we won't get the
10:45:09:06 support we need.
10:45:10:06 We won't be as frustrated next time.
10:45:12:15 Perhaps we can lower it because we're spending wisely.
10:45:16:03 We're working smart.
10:45:17:21 Would hate to think our CRA funds are going to
10:45:20:27 something they are doing as well.
10:45:22:15 Now we have three people on projects spending same
10:45:25:12 amount of money getting nowhere, not communicating.
10:45:27:24 This is the alignment that numerous are working with us
10:45:31:06 in the Channel District.
10:45:32:09 Hyde Park, East Tampa, Gandy.
10:45:34:18 We're aligning so we can get clear communication.
10:45:37:24 We can support you who we've elected, and we can be the

10:45:40:22 best city there is.
10:45:42:16 So, please, if we can -- the other thing I was asked to
10:45:46:24 ask, can we have two meetings, neighborhood with City
10:45:49:22 Council this year so we can review the projects, where
10:45:53:19 the money is going so it's not frustration at the end
10:45:56:07 of the year.
10:45:57:03 May we?
10:46:07:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to thank you, Ms. Anson, for
10:46:10:16 bringing this template to us.
10:46:12:06 What you have articulated today is the frustration that
10:46:15:00 many of us Council members have felt.
10:46:17:01 I think that asking for a weekly report is too much.
10:46:21:19 But I think a monthly report or at the very least once
10:46:24:07 every two months on how we're doing with our projects,
10:46:27:00 where the money is going would really create
10:46:30:10 transparency which would benefit everyone.
10:46:31:24 It would create understanding for the public.
10:46:34:12 It would create understanding for Council members
10:46:37:06 sitting as Council members and the CRA.
10:46:39:22 And it would provide the staff an opportunity to really
10:46:43:06 demonstrate what we're doing and what the timeliness of
10:46:45:16 it is.
10:46:46:06 We have improved in terms of budgets.
10:46:47:28 We now get the budget at the beginning of the budget
10:46:50:06 year as opposed at the end, which we used to do with

10:46:53:12 CRA.
10:46:53:22 We improved in the CDBG budgeting.
10:46:56:24 I think the template that you have given us would be
10:47:00:00 truly useful, and I'm going to encourage my colleagues
10:47:04:15 to ask the administration to adopt it, and certainly we
10:47:07:06 sitting as the CRA board could say that this is what we
10:47:09:03 want to do because I think we need to know how the
10:47:10:21 money is being spent.
10:47:11:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Janelle, this $100 refund you
10:47:16:07 referred to earlier, if it said Mike English, Mike
10:47:19:03 English is not a paid staff member.
10:47:21:13 >> I know, that's my problem.
10:47:22:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's not a problem.
10:47:24:03 What I would suggest, the paid staff people who run the
10:47:26:21 streetcar for Mike English, et cetera, is David ARMEJO
10:47:31:24 at Hart and get in touch with Ed Crawford who works
10:47:35:12 with David, and see if you can work on that refund.
10:47:39:04 >> I've gone down that path and I'm here again.
10:47:42:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, if you have documentation,
10:47:44:10 take it over there and see what they can do.
10:47:46:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I think it's important to turn it
10:47:49:03 over to Mary Mulhern who is the representative for us
10:47:52:06 on the streetcar.
10:47:53:01 Maybe she can get something done.
10:47:55:18 I don't know.

10:47:58:16 >>MARY MULHERN: You got a notice from the streetcar --
10:48:01:18 historic streetcar board that you were owed a refund?
10:48:05:00 I didn't hear the beginning.
10:48:06:04 >> How it works, and you'll see this in our
10:48:08:12 neighborhood as it grows.
10:48:10:18 Your specially assessed --
10:48:12:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me suggest, because our time is
10:48:14:16 getting away.
10:48:15:09 Let me suggest you meet with her.
10:48:17:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, I'll meet with you.
10:48:19:18 Our streetcar chair is David Mechanik, who is right
10:48:24:18 there.
10:48:25:00 If you have a chance, you might talk to him.
10:48:27:10 Does that come from the city, Dave?
10:48:29:15 It doesn't come from Hart, does it?
10:48:32:19 It comes from the city.
10:48:34:00 Make an appointment and I'll help you figure it out.
10:48:36:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I appreciate that.
10:48:37:21 Our time is getting away.
10:48:39:01 I really need to move this.
10:48:40:24 Do we need to read the whole resolution?
10:48:44:27 >>SAL TERRITO: You've done it differently by opening
10:48:47:01 all three.
10:48:47:21 If you want to, I can submit the next two to you or
10:48:50:13 bring them up individually.

10:48:51:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's take 84, read that.
10:48:53:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You just have to move the resolution.
10:48:57:15 >>GWEN MILLER: I move the resolution for item 84.
10:49:02:03 >> This is the resolution for the downtown.
10:49:03:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:49:04:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you want to ask if there's anybody
10:49:06:13 else who wishes to speak?
10:49:08:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 84, I see none.
10:49:11:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
10:49:14:15 Moved by councilwoman Gwen Miller and.seconded by
10:49:19:22 Councilman Dingfelder.
10:49:21:07 All in favor, aye.
10:49:22:04 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Saul-Sena being
10:49:24:15 absent at vote.
10:49:25:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 85.
10:49:27:15 >> Item 85 is the historic streetcar.
10:49:29:04 I have the same information for you, and I would also
10:49:31:18 like to submit a certificate of accuracy of the
10:49:33:21 assessment roll and the certificate that indicates the
10:49:37:18 notices had gone out properly.
10:49:43:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here want to address Council,
10:49:45:21 item 85?
10:49:49:25 >> Mr. Chairman, David Mechanik, president of Tampa
10:49:52:27 historic streetcar board.
10:49:54:15 We don't really have a presentation this morning.

10:49:57:25 You've heard pretty much the issues, but I did want to
10:50:00:28 clarify, our assessment for the streetcar, and
10:50:03:09 Ms. Capdaro from Hartline has some materials we would
10:50:10:09 like to pass out to you.
10:50:11:21 The assessment went into effect in the year 2000, which
10:50:15:06 would have been before the first gentleman spoke, so
10:50:17:27 that assessment was in effect and has not changed.
10:50:22:06 We have not proposed an increase in the assessment in
10:50:24:27 all the years.
10:50:25:27 And what is happening, each year, Council renews or
10:50:31:06 readopts those assessments, so that's why there are
10:50:34:15 notices that come out every year.
10:50:36:18 But we are not increasing the assessment.
10:50:38:28 And I would just like to report that we've had another
10:50:43:01 record year on ridership.
10:50:45:15 We are on track to match last year's number, which was
10:50:48:22 a record of 420,000 riders.
10:50:52:00 And we look forward to extending the streetcar into the
10:50:55:28 center of downtown, which will provide even more
10:50:58:27 service to the central area of downtown.
10:51:01:00 Thank you.
10:51:14:00 >> My name is Moses Knotts junior.
10:51:16:24 2902 east Ellicott street.
10:51:19:04 You know, I was just sitting back there.
10:51:23:07 I've been sitting up in this place a long, long time.

10:51:26:12 And every time you all pass an ordinance or do
10:51:30:00 something, I'm sitting in the back there figuring out
10:51:32:25 that it ain't going to work.
10:51:34:24 This streetcar thing, I was sitting in the very back
10:51:37:04 there when you all put this whole thing together.
10:51:40:03 My friend, Dick Greco -- I always call him my friend --
10:51:46:24 he's a smart man.
10:51:48:00 This assessment for the streetcar thing, anybody -- I
10:51:50:12 was sitting in the back and I said, my God, somebody is
10:51:53:25 going to hurt one day.
10:51:59:06 I'm sitting back there thinking about all this stuff.
10:52:01:18 People sitting there, UHH, looking at you, don't know
10:52:05:12 what the man said.
10:52:06:15 Don't know what you are putting on paper.
10:52:09:06 Just sitting there signing your life away and getting
10:52:11:18 away with it.
10:52:12:09 Come out and say we have the best streetcars, the
10:52:20:04 streetcars have air conditioning, best in the country.
10:52:23:03 Paid for by blood.
10:52:24:10 I sit back there a while ago, these people just
10:52:28:03 beginning to see what happening.
10:52:29:15 I was sitting back there when the thing first got
10:52:35:09 organized.
10:52:35:27 I sit there and listen to everything you all do, for
10:52:39:03 the last 35, 40 years I've been coming here.

10:52:41:25 I know one day, like a boomerang, you chuck it out
10:52:46:00 there, it's coming back.
10:52:48:00 People don't know what's going on.
10:52:50:27 I tell people to look at the City Council, come here,
10:52:54:00 speak up, because one day it will be too late.
10:52:58:10 Now it's too late.
10:52:59:18 A lot of poor people in Ybor City live close to that
10:53:06:18 think.
10:53:07:00 I feel sorry to them.
10:53:08:07 I cry to the Lord.
10:53:09:12 Lord, why?
10:53:10:18 People sit there and let you all do that and get away
10:53:13:15 with it.
10:53:14:00 That's why I come here.
10:53:15:03 Many people ask me do I get paid?
10:53:20:21 No, I don't get paid.
10:53:26:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:53:27:04 Motion?
10:53:27:27 Item 85.
10:53:28:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Move the resolution.
10:53:31:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:53:31:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and second.
10:53:34:00 All in favor, aye.
10:53:39:09 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:53:41:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: -- the streetcar folks increasing

10:53:43:27 ridership, moving ahead with the continuation of the
10:53:48:00 track to the north and creating something that all
10:53:52:03 visitors as well as residents value.
10:53:54:03 Thank you for your volunteer participation on the board
10:53:56:21 and what you've accomplished.
10:53:58:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 86.
10:54:01:24 >>SAL TERRITO: Item 86 is for the Westshore special
10:54:05:12 assessment district.
10:54:06:09 They will be submitting the affidavits and letter
10:54:08:07 indicating that these items have gone out to the clerk
10:54:10:18 sometime this week.
10:54:11:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here want to address Council?
10:54:14:24 Item 86?
10:54:16:25 After we take up this item, we'll hear from staff and
10:54:19:15 then we'll stand in recess for the CRA.
10:54:23:00 >> Good morning.
10:54:23:15 Chris weber, Westshore alliance.
10:54:25:18 Here on behalf of the Westshore alliance to ask your
10:54:28:12 support for the special assessment.
10:54:29:25 This is our seventh special assessment funds marketing,
10:54:33:21 transportation, and security programs for this year, as
10:54:37:24 in the past years, we have not changed the boundary nor
10:54:41:21 the types of properties assessed.
10:54:43:21 We do not assess residential properties.
10:54:45:27 Our budget this year is lower than last year, and also,

10:54:50:03 our millage rate is lower than this year -- last year.
10:54:54:03 Our programs remain the same.
10:54:55:21 We have marketing.
10:54:56:21 Our transportation now is moving into the pedestrian
10:54:59:06 improvements, so we're looking forward to doing that.
10:55:01:24 And we have -- I have letters to give you from support
10:55:05:03 from property owners from the Westshore area.
10:55:08:25 I'll be happy to answer any questions for you.
10:55:11:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yeah, I haven't heard any dissension
10:55:14:01 this year, which is a good thing.
10:55:16:07 >> Thank you.
10:55:16:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: A couple of years ago, Randy was
10:55:18:19 telling us about I think the cameras on the buildings,
10:55:21:07 and that was an ongoing project.
10:55:23:06 Have you all pretty much wrapped that up?
10:55:25:18 >> Yes, sir.
10:55:26:00 Actually, we're down to two cameras now.
10:55:28:00 All been converted to fiberoptic.
10:55:30:24 Those cameras will probably stay until the end of the
10:55:33:15 construction on the interstate out there.
10:55:35:28 And once that's done, then they will be converted to
10:55:39:15 fiberoptic.
10:55:40:15 Those funds for transportation are now being used for
10:55:42:21 the pedestrian improvements.
10:55:43:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

10:55:45:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to commend you all for
10:55:48:00 being real leaders in terms of doing a plan for
10:55:50:15 pedestrian improvements and Orienting some of your
10:55:55:04 funding to implementing it.
10:55:56:12 To be a pedestrian is going to be increasingly
10:55:58:18 important as we have such a mixture of commercial,
10:56:01:18 professional, and residential uses.
10:56:04:09 We want to encourage pedestrian activity.
10:56:07:24 We want it to be safe.
10:56:09:00 Thank you, all, for redirecting some of your funding
10:56:11:27 toward making those improvements.
10:56:13:18 >> We're looking forward to doing it.
10:56:15:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else wish to address Council?
10:56:17:16 >> Move the resolution.
10:56:18:27 >> Second.
10:56:19:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
10:56:21:04 All in favor, signify by aye.
10:56:23:03 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
10:56:27:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close items 44 through 46.
10:56:32:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
10:56:35:15 We'll now take up staff report.
10:56:53:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have items 91, 92, 93, 34 and 65
10:56:57:28 were removed from the consent docket.
10:57:00:06 If you can get through the staff reports quickly, your
10:57:02:19 CRA is scheduled to start at 11:00.

10:57:05:18 As soon as you can do that.
10:57:13:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: She had a question about 34, but it was
10:57:15:16 included.
10:57:20:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: -- want to speak to the director of
10:57:22:09 the Water Department regarding item 34, I think it
10:57:25:12 would be appropriate at this time.
10:57:29:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know if you heard when I was
10:57:30:16 asking, my question about the big capital expenditures
10:57:32:27 for the big water pipes is when we're approving this
10:57:37:21 one in particular, do we know where this project is
10:57:41:24 happening?
10:57:45:06 >> Brad Baird, Water Department director.
10:57:47:12 We know most of the projects, all of the pipeline
10:57:51:24 replacement projects, we have a list of those.
10:57:54:21 The projects that are proposed by developers, we do not
10:57:58:15 know most of those yet, but we can certainly provide a
10:58:02:27 list.
10:58:04:18 >>MARY MULHERN: And if you could get that list to us.
10:58:07:00 And then in the future when there are these huge
10:58:10:24 expenditures, if we could just see the list with the
10:58:13:07 backup on the agenda, then I wouldn't be troubling you
10:58:17:06 to come over here.
10:58:18:21 We'd know what was going on.
10:58:22:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, would you wish to
10:58:23:24 inquire if that should be a motion of Council as a

10:58:26:15 request to the administration to make that standard in
10:58:28:06 the backup material?
10:58:32:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I'd like to move that be standard in
10:58:34:10 the backup material for capital projects or any
10:58:40:12 projects, say, more than 3 million.
10:58:45:22 I don't know.
10:58:46:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I can't set a dollar value.
10:58:49:07 If it's one dollar or million dollars or $10 million, I
10:58:52:06 think we should know.
10:58:54:00 Something of importance to all of us, to all the
10:58:57:24 taxpayers, should be categorized into a million dollar
10:59:02:00 project or more.
10:59:03:03 I think they all should be.
10:59:04:09 They are just as important.
10:59:06:07 >>MARY MULHERN: And I think it's important, too, these
10:59:08:15 are -- you know, we're saying we're cutting down on
10:59:11:24 personnel and reducing our costs, but these huge
10:59:16:06 projects we're hiring consultants and engineers and all
10:59:18:24 kinds of people to do this work.
10:59:20:09 Our taxpayers' dollars are going into -- they may not
10:59:23:18 be paying people who are paid staff but they are paying
10:59:27:27 outside people and I think we need to know that.
10:59:30:09 People need to know that and who they are.
10:59:32:04 What contractors they are getting.
10:59:35:18 >> We can certainly do that.

10:59:37:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion, moved and second.
10:59:39:15 All in favor, aye.
10:59:41:15 Okay.
10:59:42:00 Thank you.
10:59:42:15 Item 65 you pulled.
10:59:48:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, I pulled item 65 to ask -- the
10:59:56:27 resolution is authorizing $204,310 for Hart for the
11:00:05:06 InTown green line service.
11:00:07:00 So I want to know what exactly that service is and
11:00:13:15 where that money is coming from.
11:00:15:04 What fund.
11:00:20:06 Okay, the gas tax fund.
11:00:21:27 Yeah, I want to know, is this like the regular daily
11:00:27:00 route for this, or is this special?
11:00:31:19 >> Jim Stefan, budget officer.
11:00:34:09 This is a continuation of the contract.
11:00:37:09 I have a little bit of a map here, which basically
11:00:43:12 shows it supports a lot of the convention center,
11:00:47:12 guests and everything, from getting the North Tampa --
11:00:50:18 north of downtown to downtown to the convention center
11:00:54:15 area over to Channel District.
11:00:58:10 So very supportive of convention center patrons.
11:01:01:06 >>MARY MULHERN: It's kind of hard, that map is so
11:01:04:00 small.
11:01:05:06 >> I apologize.

11:01:06:27 >>MARY MULHERN: My big question is how often this is
11:01:10:03 running.
11:01:10:24 I'd like to know what kind of ridership there is on it.
11:01:14:15 And also whether it's following the same route as the
11:01:19:15 streetcar actually follows.
11:01:25:12 That's a lot of money to spend on that if we could be
11:01:29:25 utilizing the streetcar.
11:01:31:13 >> I have ridership information that they provided us.
11:01:34:21 Through May.
11:01:39:16 And you can get an idea that as events occur, the
11:01:46:21 ridership becomes very accelerated.
11:01:52:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I'd like a copy of the map and maybe
11:01:54:06 with my reading glasses I can actually see it.
11:01:57:13 >> The service is basically -- I believe it's primarily
11:02:01:00 on Thursday night, Friday night and Saturday, and it's
11:02:04:09 to move people around.
11:02:06:00 So it's when business and events are occurring.
11:02:10:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
11:02:11:27 But move them around where?
11:02:13:21 That's my question.
11:02:14:28 >> I can provide you with a copy.
11:02:17:09 >> [not at microphone]
11:02:20:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Sir, you can't speak from the audience
11:02:23:00 like that.
11:02:24:21 >> We can talk.

11:02:28:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:02:29:07 You want to move that item?
11:02:31:13 >>MARY MULHERN: I move item 65.
11:02:34:04 >> Second.
11:02:34:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
11:02:37:12 Item 91.
11:02:44:13 >> Good morning, Council.
11:02:45:21 Chuck Walter, director of the stormwater department.
11:02:48:00 Council had asked for me to come back and give an
11:02:50:19 update on the status of the waterway program in the
11:02:53:06 city.
11:02:53:21 Right now, we're in a very good position with the
11:02:56:06 waterway program.
11:02:57:09 We've been moving along at pretty good speed.
11:03:00:07 We've got the survey completed in the canal system.
11:03:02:25 Not completed.
11:03:03:24 Primarily done.
11:03:04:13 We have most of the canals done.
11:03:06:22 We'll have a scope of work to you to comply with the
11:03:10:22 National Environmental Policy Act, the NEPA
11:03:15:03 requirements, for the federal appropriation of 1.3
11:03:17:06 million towards this project.
11:03:18:21 We'll have that scope of work to you probably within
11:03:20:21 the next two meetings of Council.
11:03:23:15 The water management district has also come to the

11:03:27:21 plate in northwest Hillsborough basin board as not
11:03:31:24 quite appropriated yet.
11:03:33:04 It's shown in their budget to appropriate a million
11:03:35:06 dollars towards this project, not for the dredging
11:03:38:15 component but for the placement of the material.
11:03:40:21 We hope to be able to put this material back out into
11:03:43:27 Tampa Bay and fill some of the dredged holes that are
11:03:47:15 an environmental problem out in Tampa Bay.
11:03:49:27 So we've got that somewhat commitment from the
11:03:54:10 district.
11:03:54:21 It has to get through their final budget process as
11:03:57:15 well and we have to do an agreement that you'll see
11:03:59:27 later.
11:04:00:09 One of the things that has come up, we have put off the
11:04:03:07 voting procedure.
11:04:04:07 We had gone to Council back in early spring with the
11:04:07:13 voting procedure on how to move forward with deciding
11:04:10:18 if a canal would be in the assessment or not in the
11:04:12:28 assessment.
11:04:13:18 And one of the reasons we wanted to get that done up
11:04:18:21 front, we wanted to be able to get the rolls into the
11:04:21:19 property appraiser in this time frame.
11:04:25:03 City administration basically made the determination,
11:04:27:12 you know, let's put this project out to bid first.
11:04:30:25 Let's get the dollar value of what people will be

11:04:33:06 assessed before we go and ask them to actually vote and
11:04:37:00 contribute to a project when we don't really know the
11:04:40:12 number.
11:04:40:27 We were using a planning number of around $8,000 per
11:04:44:00 residential property.
11:04:45:03 But frankly, it could come in last.
11:04:47:06 It could come in a little bit more.
11:04:48:24 But it would be better if we could give the actual
11:04:51:15 dollar value to the properties and ask them to vote on
11:04:54:06 what the actual assessment would be.
11:04:56:09 So it really does not significantly impact the schedule
11:04:59:21 to do it that way.
11:05:00:28 It will be asking the city to make a commitment of
11:05:03:22 proceeding with the project without having a dedicated
11:05:06:03 funding source.
11:05:07:13 So when this all comes together in the spring, when
11:05:10:03 we've a contract to award, we'll have to do the roll,
11:05:13:24 the assessment, all those things will be compact into a
11:05:17:10 small package of Council actions, quite frankly, you'll
11:05:20:06 have a lot more information to make those decisions.
11:05:22:12 We see it as a very positive outcome that we'll have
11:05:25:15 all this information and allow people to really make an
11:05:27:24 informed decision.
11:05:28:19 That's where we are today.
11:05:30:12 I'll be happy to answer any questions.

11:05:34:00 >> A gentleman was here this morning and said he
11:05:37:06 received an assessment, what was that about?
11:05:40:10 Were you here when he was speaking?
11:05:42:06 >> No, I wasn't.
11:05:43:00 The only assessments are the existing stormwater
11:05:45:09 assessments on the books.
11:05:46:24 There's been no new assessment for this program at all.
11:05:51:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
11:05:52:25 Did your question get addressed?
11:06:05:12 >> Ellie Montague, Browning Avenue.
11:06:08:19 Dr. Nester was here because he received a letter
11:06:12:18 stating that he would have to pay.
11:06:14:03 He is the third house down from lake Dundee that's all
11:06:18:12 impacted from the city's dumping of stormwater.
11:06:21:18 It's obvious where his canal is filled up that's the
11:06:28:07 river Dundee.
11:06:29:12 That's filled up down to his house and he'll be charged
11:06:33:03 for the city's dumping on his river where he has his
11:06:36:06 house.
11:06:36:27 He should not have to pay for that.
11:06:38:21 He should not have received a notice that would worry
11:06:41:18 him that he would have to pay an unknown amount to
11:06:44:27 continue to clean up the waterway that the city has
11:06:47:15 dumped on.
11:06:48:07 He pays high taxes like everyone else who lives on the

11:06:51:15 water.
11:06:52:00 And it is unfair.
11:06:53:06 And we've seen all these things, switched back and
11:06:56:09 forth and waste of our city money and our taxpayer
11:06:59:24 money.
11:07:00:12 Just exactly like Kipling, where they had it all ready
11:07:03:24 to put the scepters in and cleaned out all the spots in
11:07:08:09 front of the pipes where the scepters are going.
11:07:10:12 They should have cleaned all those springs out in the
11:07:12:27 middle.
11:07:14:00 That was a total mess with dead fish.
11:07:15:28 I had to stomp my feet to get them to clean it up.
11:07:18:28 Now the streets are all torn up and curbs are torn up.
11:07:23:03 They should have finished with the 1.3 million the way
11:07:26:00 it was intended.
11:07:26:27 The money was to clean up that Lake Dundee, which isn't
11:07:30:03 the lake.
11:07:30:27 It's actually an estuary with springs in it, just like
11:07:33:25 Kipling is.
11:07:34:21 It connects by way of a creek.
11:07:36:15 That creek is filled with siltation.
11:07:38:28 They need to use that money, the 1.3, what it was
11:07:42:27 awarded for the estuary and not the canals and not
11:07:47:12 to --
11:07:48:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Did you ask Ellie if she was happy?

11:07:52:25 >> You really should be more involved, Mr. Dingfelder.
11:07:55:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm involved.
11:07:56:15 >> I know it's your area, and I've never been able to
11:07:59:12 get you out there to walk the area.
11:08:01:12 It's a very serious thing, the amount of money and how
11:08:04:09 long have they had this grant, 1.3.
11:08:08:13 How long have they had it?
11:08:11:10 I think four years or more and wasting it.
11:08:14:04 You know why they haven't gotten hold of it?
11:08:16:19 They haven't done environmental issues, EPA won't
11:08:19:27 release it.
11:08:20:27 Somebody else ought to look into it more closely than
11:08:26:18 Ellie Montague.
11:08:28:09 I do have the map showing the muck in lake Dundee.
11:08:34:21 It's obvious to anyone that muck went down to nester's
11:08:39:18 house, which is the third house down, was there because
11:08:42:27 of it being put in by the city.
11:08:45:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
11:08:46:24 Thank you.
11:08:48:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, I am extremely proud
11:08:50:27 that this city, after four or five administrations came
11:08:54:21 and went and Ms. Montague wanted her lake dredged and
11:08:59:12 her lake dredged and her lake dredged and finally after
11:09:03:03 four or five administrations came and went, this
11:09:05:06 administration and this Council got that lake dredged.

11:09:08:24 So not all of it dredged, but some of it's dredged.
11:09:14:18 And it's an improvement and we're making improvements
11:09:17:06 and that's what government is about.
11:09:19:06 >> I just want to say that the reason any
11:09:23:03 administration did anything is because the neighborhood
11:09:24:21 filed a lawsuit because we weren't meeting NEPA
11:09:28:04 standards, and they got the federal government
11:09:29:21 involved.
11:09:30:15 And we weren't getting our certificates.
11:09:32:15 And then the city moved.
11:09:34:03 So it really has been because of neighborhood activism.
11:09:36:27 And I salute the neighborhood.
11:09:39:00 If they hadn't hired I think it was Robin Lewis to do
11:09:42:13 the research to sue the city, we wouldn't have moved
11:09:45:12 ahead, gotten the grant.
11:09:47:00 And I share the concerns of the neighborhood that the
11:09:50:09 grants be used for what they were originally granted to
11:09:53:00 the city to address.
11:09:54:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:09:54:28 Thank you very much.
11:09:55:24 Item 92.
11:09:57:10 Legal Department and Land Development Coordination to
11:10:06:25 appear and provide a report on whether it is necessary
11:10:09:16 to adopt an ordinance to change the height requirements
11:10:11:24 for installation of windmill or similar structure.

11:10:17:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, you did receive a memo dated
11:10:20:07 August 11.
11:10:21:18 It does say appear.
11:10:24:07 >> There was a memo that was submitted if you needed
11:10:27:13 something else.
11:10:28:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, that was a motion by Miranda and
11:10:31:18 Saul-Sena.
11:10:32:10 I guess you all are happy.
11:10:36:06 >> I think the person who researched it indicated we
11:10:39:10 couldn't do it.
11:10:43:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The memo -- the memo recommended we
11:10:46:16 shouldn't do it.
11:10:48:03 My concern on the windmills is sort of twofold.
11:10:52:10 On the one hand, I think that we should, as a
11:10:56:00 community, we should look into all sorts of alternative
11:11:00:15 energy sources, wind, solar, et cetera.
11:11:03:12 My concern is and I've seen this in other communities
11:11:08:00 around the country, including Massachusetts, what
11:11:10:00 happens is, somebody says you know I can save a lot of
11:11:12:13 money on my power bill.
11:11:14:19 I'll throw up a windmill in my backyard.
11:11:17:12 Kathy, you are here.
11:11:18:22 Maybe you were part of that memo.
11:11:20:18 So my concern was, I don't want to see people starting
11:11:23:09 to throw up windmills in their backyard with a big pole

11:11:26:22 that might be either visually disruptive or create
11:11:31:03 noise disruption for their neighbors without us getting
11:11:34:25 ahead of the curve in regard to our zoning code and
11:11:37:18 creating some community standard.

11:11:39:04 Do you recall what the memo says or were you part of
11:11:43:24 that?
11:11:44:24 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Catherine Coyle, Land Development.
11:11:47:07 The motion that was made kind of lent itself to maybe
11:11:57:15 the question of whether or not we should encourage
11:11:59:28 windmills to be allowed.
11:12:01:21 But the way you are phrasing it is maybe to restrict
11:12:04:27 it.
11:12:05:07 The bottom --
11:12:06:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My whole point is neither.
11:12:08:06 My whole point is we should study it.
11:12:10:21 Get ahead of the curve and perhaps have our zoning code
11:12:14:00 expressly address windmills so we create a community
11:12:16:24 standard in regard to windmills.
11:12:18:12 There might be somebody out there who has an acre or
11:12:20:24 something like that that maybe if they throw up a
11:12:24:19 windmill it wouldn't impose a burden on their
11:12:27:10 neighbors.
11:12:27:25 The flip side, in my neighborhood, throw up a windmill
11:12:32:09 and you'll probably create a burden on the neighbor.
11:12:35:00 >> Reality, accessory structures are limited to 15 feet

11:12:37:22 in height.
11:12:38:10 If you go through the memo itself, Florida is concerned
11:12:41:03 a class one location, which the windiest month has a
11:12:45:03 sustained wind of 9.4 miles per hour.
11:12:47:06 According to the U.S. Department of Energy, you need
11:12:51:09 for a viable small wind between 10 and 12 miles per
11:12:54:06 hour.
11:12:54:28 Florida, especially our section, just isn't a viable
11:12:57:25 location with our tree canopy and the way that the
11:13:00:21 winds are, according to the U.S. Department of Energy.
11:13:03:22 This just is not a viable location for that type of
11:13:06:16 energy production.
11:13:07:15 That's why we're basically not recommending changing
11:13:10:03 the zoning code.
11:13:11:03 The other issue is the windmills, the wind turbines
11:13:15:00 need to be 65 feet or taller to generate any kind -- to
11:13:18:21 get above our tree canopy and to hit the wind we need
11:13:22:00 to generate that power has to be 65 feet in height or
11:13:25:18 taller.
11:13:26:09 None of the residential districts allow that until you
11:13:28:06 get into the RM-35 and higher, obviously.
11:13:30:15 Our commercial districts only allow 45 feet in height.
11:13:34:03 Within our zoning code now, we don't allow any kind of
11:13:37:09 height that would even allow this type of turbine.
11:13:38:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: How about a cell tower?

11:13:42:00 >>CATHERINE COYLE: There's a special provision for that
11:13:44:09 in the code.
11:13:45:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let's say somebody comes in, they
11:13:47:18 have a piece of property, maybe an industrial piece of
11:13:51:10 property and they want to throw up a windmill tall
11:13:54:00 enough and they are next to the water and they are
11:13:56:21 windier perhaps.
11:13:57:21 For argument's sake, if they wanted to do that, would
11:14:00:12 they have to come in for a variance or special use?
11:14:03:00 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Well, industrial general allows I
11:14:06:04 think 60 feet in height.
11:14:08:03 Industrial heavy is 75 feet.
11:14:09:15 If you're in the industrial heavy district, that's
11:14:12:09 something we could look at.
11:14:14:21 It would be an interpretation of the code.
11:14:16:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Residential, they would have to come
11:14:18:06 in for some special use.
11:14:20:12 >>CATHERINE COYLE: He would have to come in for some
11:14:23:06 kind of variance.
11:14:24:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:14:26:03 I was on the other side of the hall at the office
11:14:28:18 answering some mail.
11:14:29:21 I apologize for running over Mr. Mulhern's aide and
11:14:33:25 Mr. Dingfelder's aide on the way over.
11:14:38:24 I heard windmill and I rushed over.

11:14:41:15 Although 9.4 is six-tenths short of 10.
11:14:48:22 That means there is some value to something.
11:14:50:28 I brought it up because I didn't think it was in the
11:14:57:15 code.
11:14:57:25 I appreciate the research you've done, calling various
11:15:00:06 cities and doing your due diligence.
11:15:02:12 I'm looking at certain areas of the city, primarily in
11:15:04:19 open areas where you have an extensive use of
11:15:06:27 electricity, and it may or may not be factual to do
11:15:13:09 these things.
11:15:14:04 Golfers often lie.
11:15:16:18 They always blame the wind for the ball not going in
11:15:19:09 the right direction.
11:15:20:12 And sometimes that's a fact.
11:15:22:00 But next to the Pippin water plant, there's a lot of
11:15:26:24 open water, not only for this type of use, if it's
11:15:30:25 possible and feasible.
11:15:32:06 I'm not going to expend money on something that doesn't
11:15:37:01 work or have solar cells if there's again the
11:15:39:27 possibility of generating at least a savings on them.
11:15:43:06 And also in the current plant, in the southeastern part
11:15:47:27 of the city those may be two areas you look at to see
11:15:54:12 if the feasibility of the wind is over 10 miles an hour
11:15:57:00 or, because like I said, golfers always blame it on the
11:16:02:06 wind.

11:16:02:21 And being a golfers, I'm glad there is a thing called
11:16:06:21 wind that I can always blame my score.
11:16:09:27 Those two areas I think are very feasible to study to
11:16:18:24 see if we can accommodate and save electricity and save
11:16:22:21 a lot of the things of nature that we need to --
11:16:29:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
11:16:31:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:16:32:16 I want to thank you for the report.
11:16:35:27 Mr. Fletcher, I'm so glad you are in the audience.
11:16:38:25 I understand that in the next several weeks, we're
11:16:41:09 going to have TECO franchise agreement come before
11:16:44:12 Council.
11:16:44:24 You don't have to answer.
11:16:46:15 When you bring it before us, I'd like you to identify
11:16:50:15 if there's any discussion in the agreement on renewable
11:16:54:00 if the city were to, for example, create -- generate
11:16:58:24 electricity through solar or wind and what the
11:17:01:06 situation would be with net metering.
11:17:03:12 You don't have to answer it now.
11:17:06:06 Net metering means if we create it and we distribute
11:17:09:07 it, is it wholesale or retail?
11:17:12:09 >> Just to respond -- chip Fletcher, City Attorney.
11:17:17:15 We are getting, hopefully, into the last stages of
11:17:20:12 negotiations with TECO.
11:17:21:22 And I'm optimistic that we will be back before you in

11:17:26:21 not too long a time period.
11:17:28:27 We are actively protecting the city's ability to engage
11:17:33:27 in renewable energy activities that may fit along the
11:17:39:01 lines of all the types of things that you-all have been
11:17:42:04 discussing.
11:17:43:00 Certainly we have them at the McKay Bay facility
11:17:45:10 which is considered renewable source of energy.
11:17:48:22 Refuse-to-energy facility.
11:17:50:03 There are other things that the city is looking into,
11:17:52:18 all those which continues to be options under the
11:17:55:00 franchise agreement.
11:17:56:06 And I'm not aware of any interests by TECO to limit
11:18:00:21 that ability to the city.
11:18:02:09 So I would think that'll continue and it will be in the
11:18:06:21 version that you all will see.
11:18:08:27 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted, number one, to ask
11:18:12:18 Mr. Miranda, why did you get rid of the solar panel?
11:18:18:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, that's a personal thing.
11:18:20:21 I've had them there about 25 to 30 years ago or more.
11:18:26:03 I bought that unit from a guy named Scotty.
11:18:29:21 He was an Irishman, and he was representing a company
11:18:32:21 called solar heart.
11:18:34:12 I can tell you what I paid for it.
11:18:36:00 I got rid of it because of time.
11:18:39:27 Nature wore out the bottom part.

11:18:41:18 I had to replace the roof.
11:18:43:10 When I replaced the roof, the unit, the bottom part
11:18:47:01 that held the water was completely corroded.
11:18:51:09 So I had to do my due diligence on my own and remove
11:18:54:25 that system.
11:18:55:15 I paid about $2400, somebody in the audience willing to
11:18:59:28 replace it for 2400, I'll buy it today.
11:19:03:27 It's over six to seven thousand now as I understand.
11:19:06:15 I'm still looking to replace that.
11:19:08:13 I'm still looking to replace the whole electric grid on
11:19:11:19 the house with solar cells.
11:19:13:04 So if you all want to lead, let's not be followers,
11:19:16:18 let's be leaders.
11:19:18:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Just further to that, it's great to
11:19:21:04 hear that we are looking into alternative energy, and I
11:19:23:19 love the idea that I think wind does have to work.
11:19:27:21 It's working in the Midwest and where we have big open
11:19:31:10 areas.
11:19:32:03 If we're going to do wind, solar works on a house or an
11:19:38:19 individual building basis, but wind is more of
11:19:41:06 something you can harvest in a big open area.
11:19:47:12 So I hope we do continue to look into that.
11:19:50:01 And I think because TECO hasn't really shown much
11:19:53:03 interest in either of those approaches to alternative
11:19:56:09 energy, solar or wind, it would be great if the city

11:20:00:06 started looking into that and became a leader in that.
11:20:04:13 There are a lot of other cities that are doing it.
11:20:06:27 And we've got our waste to energy, so that's a good
11:20:11:10 start.
11:20:11:21 If we started looking at some other alternatives, we
11:20:15:06 could become a provider, possibly.
11:20:17:00 And I think that's a great way to go.
11:20:19:19 And I hope we are going to continue that way.
11:20:22:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:20:24:03 Tampa City Council stand in recess.
11:20:25:12 The CRA will --
11:20:29:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What about Ashton woods?
11:20:31:00 Those folks are here?
11:20:36:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:20:36:25 Well, the CRA will have a problem then.
11:20:38:25 It's 11:25.
11:20:41:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Should we go back to that after
11:20:43:18 lunch then?
11:20:45:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We can go ahead and take up Ashton
11:20:47:22 woods.
11:20:48:03 But I will tell you -- how much time do we need on
11:20:55:00 Ashton woods?
11:20:57:21 >>JULIA COLE: Julia Cole, Legal Department.
11:20:59:09 I understand you received a memorandum from Cindy
11:21:01:18 Miller giving you an idea of where we are on the issue.

11:21:05:04 We were supposed to go out with the property owners
11:21:07:00 with Kate O'Dowd who came to discuss this matter with
11:21:10:24 you a couple of weeks ago, except, unfortunately, the
11:21:14:00 scare about Fay occurred, so we had to postpone that to
11:21:17:00 next week.
11:21:17:22 As I said, I believe you have a memo in front of you
11:21:20:22 detailing where we are.
11:21:21:18 These are administrative issues.
11:21:22:25 We are working through them.
11:21:24:00 We've rescheduled that meeting for next week.
11:21:25:25 I didn't see Kate here this morning, and I have kept
11:21:32:04 her up to date.
11:21:33:27 We intend to go on the site, delineate the outstanding
11:21:37:04 issues and resolve them.
11:21:38:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Continue this until September 4th.
11:21:40:12 >>JULIA COLE: I don't know if you need to so much
11:21:42:04 continue it.
11:21:42:19 If you prefer, we can come back to you with a report
11:21:45:15 once we have completed it.
11:21:47:06 The only other issue I did want to raise for you, while
11:21:50:12 we call this the Ashton Woods issue, this is not Ashton
11:21:54:24 Woods and their attorneys who came forward to make this
11:21:59:13 request, adjoining property owners, they have not had
11:22:02:12 an opportunity to weigh in on this, and they probably
11:22:06:16 should have an opportunity to weigh in on this.

11:22:08:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'd like a time certain.
11:22:10:15 If you think September 4 is too early, we can do it
11:22:13:10 later in October.
11:22:14:06 I'd like to hear it come back for some type --
11:22:18:10 hopefully final report.
11:22:22:12 >>JULIA COLE: I don't want to guarantee we'll have a
11:22:24:10 final report.
11:22:25:03 It will delineate where we are.
11:22:26:21 There are other parties involved and there may be
11:22:28:24 private issues.
11:22:38:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: September 18th, we have a regular
11:22:40:00 City Council meeting.
11:22:40:19 I move we continue this to the September 18th under
11:22:44:27 staff reports.
11:22:46:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
11:22:48:06 All in favor, signify by saying aye.
11:22:55:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just as a reminder on the morning
11:22:57:15 agenda remaining, you have items 87, 88, 89 and 90.
11:23:02:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, we have a lot of items remaining.
11:23:04:19 We need to recess so CRA can meet.
11:23:07:06 And then we have to come back to take up the rest of
11:23:11:24 the agenda.
11:23:12:09 So we stand in recess.
11:23:13:27 How much time do you need?
11:23:15:15 Okay.

11:23:16:15 We have to recess for five minutes.
11:23:18:09 Five minutes, Council, please be back for the CRA
11:23:20:24 meeting.
11:23:21:09 Thank you.
11:23:21:21 [Recess]
























11:23:35:09 CRA MEETING

11:27:18:03 THURSDAY, AUGUST 21, 2008
11:27:18:03
11:27:18:03 DISCLAIMER:
11:27:18:03 The following represents an unedited version of
11:27:18:03 realtime captioning which should neither be relied upon
11:27:18:03 for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
11:27:18:03 transcript.
11:27:18:03 The original of this transcript was produced in all
11:27:18:03 capital letters and any variation thereto may be a
11:27:18:03 result of third party edits and software compatibility
11:27:18:03 issues.
11:27:18:03 Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
11:27:18:03 proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.
11:27:18:03
11:30:12:13 >>GWEN MILLER: CRA is called to order.
11:30:14:27 Roll call.
11:30:17:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
11:30:18:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
11:30:20:16 >> Mulhern?
11:30:21:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
11:30:23:24 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Here.
11:30:28:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
11:30:29:00 Before we begin, something big will happen to Mr. Mark
11:30:33:07 Huey on Sunday.
11:30:34:07 We just say we hope you have a special day on Sunday.
11:30:38:10 >> Thank you very much.
11:30:38:21 That's nice of you.
11:30:41:12 >> What's the occasion?
11:30:42:15 >> Birthday.
11:30:43:10 Turn 40.

11:30:46:09 >> We'll spare you the song.
11:30:47:21 >>GWEN MILLER: He's catching up with us.
11:30:55:24 >> I hadn't sworn in yet.
11:31:04:27 >> I know we have very limited time when you set this
11:31:08:12 meeting.
11:31:08:22 Thank you for making a place in your busy day today for
11:31:12:03 some important CRA matters.
11:31:13:09 Per your request, we have approval items only.
11:31:14:24 So no Powerpoint presentations, no big presentations
11:31:17:09 for you today.
11:31:18:12 After the public comments part of the meeting, we have
11:31:21:01 some reappropriation approvals and some other matters
11:31:24:24 for you to attend to.
11:31:27:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public like to
11:31:30:00 speak?
11:31:30:12 Any public comment?
11:31:33:03 Seeing none, you can go to the resolutions.
11:31:39:03 >> The first four items are reappropriation requests
11:31:43:27 first for Drew Park, then East Tampa, then the two Ybor
11:31:49:03 CRAs.
11:31:49:25 On Friday, we sent you a transmittal that I hope was
11:31:54:06 helpful in preparing you for these votes where we
11:31:57:00 explained in a worksheet each of the changes being
11:31:59:18 made.
11:31:59:28 They do come to you with the support of the respective

11:32:03:03 community advisory committees.
11:32:04:15 We do have the managers preparing to answer any
11:32:08:13 questions you might have.
11:32:09:16 We now put it in your good hands.
11:32:12:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Any questions of council members?
11:32:15:01 Move the resolution?
11:32:17:00 >> So moved.
11:32:17:25 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:32:19:15 All in favor of the motion, aye.
11:32:21:00 Opposed, nay.
11:32:23:22 >> Item 5 is the Channel District arts plan.
11:32:30:03 You have had something that the board has been working
11:32:33:06 with for the past months.
11:32:36:24 You've had a couple of presentations from the
11:32:39:00 consultant, the plan draft came to you last month, and
11:32:44:01 we are now seeking approval of that plan.
11:32:46:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move two through four.
11:32:49:15 >> Yes, the motion was including.
11:32:55:03 >>GWEN MILLER: All those resolutions.
11:33:02:07 >> [not speaking into microphone]
11:33:07:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Anybody want to speak on item 5?
11:33:13:21 >> Any action on 5?
11:33:16:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Just approve it.
11:33:17:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:33:19:19 I think that we would all agree that the report is even

11:33:23:27 more thorough and complete than we had anticipated.
11:33:26:28 It's a great report.
11:33:27:28 The punchline of it is, this report is only as good as
11:33:32:06 its implementation.
11:33:33:21 Its implementation will only happen if we have, I
11:33:36:15 think, somebody making sure it happens.
11:33:38:12 So I will volunteer as somebody who is really
11:33:42:25 interested in this to make sure we do the things that
11:33:47:06 the report suggests.
11:33:48:22 Because it's going to take -- it's going to take some
11:33:51:12 oversight.
11:33:52:00 It will take some nudging, and I volunteer.
11:33:58:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we need to take action on that?
11:34:03:04 She wants to volunteer.
11:34:06:04 >> Linda has a passion for this and we appreciate it.
11:34:09:03 It's benefited the planning process a lot, and we look
11:34:12:13 forward to continuing to work with you.
11:34:17:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move to adopt the report.
11:34:18:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to accept
11:34:22:21 the report from the art consultant.
11:34:26:15 All in favor, aye.
11:34:27:15 Number 6, ratification of the slate of East Tampa.
11:34:33:15 Have to add somebody to that.
11:34:35:07 They need a business person.
11:34:43:06 >> As you recall, at the last CRA board meeting, we

11:34:47:00 brought to you the slate for the elections that will
11:34:49:09 occur in September for the East Tampa community
11:34:52:06 revitalization partnership board.
11:34:55:00 There was one opening, and that was the business
11:34:57:21 opening.
11:34:58:09 You have one spot dedicated for for-profit business,
11:35:01:21 and so we have candidates that are before you today who
11:35:05:12 have applied for that slot.
11:35:07:13 And I think Ed has a comment to make on that.
11:35:19:09 >> Good morning.
11:35:20:03 Ed Johnson, urban development manager for East Tampa.
11:35:23:07 If I could, if I could use the elmo here, I'll share
11:35:29:04 with you what we're doing with the election, the slate
11:35:31:18 of officers.
11:35:32:13 As you recall at the last CRA meeting, we had several
11:35:55:19 candidates for ratification for the East Tampa
11:36:00:16 community advisory committee, and there was one
11:36:05:24 position that was not filled, and that was the position
11:36:09:00 of a for-profit business owner.
11:36:11:06 And we went out and we renoticed the process for the
11:36:18:18 for profit business owner and we had two candidates
11:36:22:00 that were received through the city clerk's office, and
11:36:24:25 those applications I hope are in front of you or you
11:36:28:22 had an opportunity to review them.
11:36:30:25 They are Mr. Juan Davis, owner of fast lane clothing,

11:36:34:19 and Mr. Michael Kelly from point west engineering.
11:36:39:00 So if both of those individuals did meet the
11:36:42:24 qualifications and upon your approval to be added to
11:36:47:15 the slate, they will become additions to the election
11:36:51:27 process that will take place next month at the
11:36:54:25 partnership's annual meeting.
11:36:56:27 And that would round out our 13-member board when the
11:37:02:12 election process takes place next month.
11:37:04:18 And what I've done on this item that I had on the elmo
11:37:09:15 for you, I kind of created kind of a flow chart of the
11:37:14:07 positions, and we've numbered, as you see on the
11:37:17:00 bottom, the current board membership, numbers one
11:37:21:00 through nine of the current board.
11:37:23:04 There's actually ten on the board.
11:37:24:27 Mr. Sam Kinsey that's listed on the bottom
11:37:28:00 automatically falls off prior to the next election.
11:37:30:19 So that's nine current members who are -- who would be
11:37:34:00 starting their second term at the end of the election
11:37:37:22 process.
11:37:38:04 Then three individuals that applied for the
11:37:43:13 resident-only position.
11:37:44:28 And they are number 10, 11 and 12.
11:37:49:01 Today, both those individuals are approved for the
11:37:53:18 slate, then when the election process takes place in
11:37:56:18 September, one of those would be elected for the

11:37:58:24 for-profit business owner section, and that would
11:38:02:06 complete the 13-member board.
11:38:04:13 I know there was some discussion about the categories.
11:38:06:12 There are five categories, which are displayed across
11:38:09:00 the top of this document.
11:38:10:21 Resident, for-profit business owner, property owner,
11:38:13:10 not for profit and at large.
11:38:15:16 I've color coded how each one of these members make up
11:38:19:16 that -- that those categories listed across the top
11:38:24:15 that would complete our board.
11:38:26:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Are either of those gentlemen here
11:38:28:09 to speak to us, Mr. Davis or Mr. Kelly?
11:38:32:00 >> I don't believe so.
11:38:32:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We're picking between the two of
11:38:34:24 them?
11:38:35:27 >> No, you're just ratifying that they are eligible for
11:38:38:21 the election process.
11:38:41:21 Any other questions?
11:38:50:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move to ratify the slate.
11:38:52:22 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:38:54:12 All in favor, aye.
11:38:55:12 Opposed, nay.
11:38:56:03 [Motion Carried]
11:39:00:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In regard to number 7, since we have
11:39:02:16 such a busy day, I move that we defer that to September

11:39:06:10 when we have a little more time to discuss it.
11:39:10:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena, question.
11:39:12:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Just to move things along when we
11:39:14:12 get to September, what I would like to suggest is maybe
11:39:18:19 we make the area that we would like to take
11:39:21:10 responsibility for known to the Chairman of the CRA or
11:39:25:03 something like that.
11:39:25:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think first we have to get past
11:39:29:00 the issue that we want to do it.
11:39:30:21 Apparently there's some controversy on it.
11:39:32:13 I don't want to deal with controversy today.
11:39:41:21 >> Thank you, my friend.
11:39:47:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Huey has a question.
11:39:48:18 >> You mentioned a September board meeting.
11:39:51:00 I want to let you know about the items that we have
11:39:53:00 slated because we do have a busy September board
11:39:55:16 meeting.
11:39:55:28 First of all, the budget will be coming to you.
11:39:57:27 And we'll be getting you the budget booklet in advance,
11:40:00:24 and we will have a presentation on the budget.
11:40:04:03 We also are planning to bring John, the head of social
11:40:10:06 contact, back.
11:40:11:06 He has his final report ready, and he would like to
11:40:13:13 brief you on it.
11:40:14:09 We are planning on doing an update on the Channel

11:40:16:16 District planning process.
11:40:18:00 That has made a lot of progress since we last reported
11:40:20:22 to you, and we want to keep you informed as a board
11:40:23:18 about that.
11:40:24:10 We also are anticipating bringing to you the commercial
11:40:27:04 facade program.
11:40:28:18 Remember that both Drew Park and East Tampa and Ybor as
11:40:33:13 well are interested in creating an incentive program
11:40:37:13 using a commercial facade program.
11:40:40:00 We have developed that, and we would like to bring it
11:40:42:18 to you for presentation.
11:40:44:01 We also have a very important partnership that we are
11:40:48:25 working on with the Sembler group in the Channel
11:40:51:16 District that will allow us to move forward on the
11:40:55:18 completion of a very important piece of infrastructure,
11:40:58:00 11th Street in the Channel District.
11:41:00:00 I just listed off four or five significant things in
11:41:03:00 addition to the budget that we have slated for your
11:41:05:18 morning meeting.
11:41:06:06 It's not going to be an afternoon meeting, it will be a
11:41:08:21 morning meeting in September.
11:41:10:01 So we've got a good, healthy agenda for you.
11:41:13:09 And there may be some other things, too, we're also
11:41:15:24 working on.
11:41:16:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The good news, September CRA meeting

11:41:19:28 is a dedicated --
11:41:21:21 >> Exactly.
11:41:22:06 We've been on this cycle of having afternoon meetings,
11:41:24:22 which is harder for us to have that kind of agenda.
11:41:27:18 We've been saving a few things up.
11:41:31:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Madam Chair, I want to go back to the
11:41:34:27 East Tampa slate, I want to go back to this because
11:41:43:04 Mr. Davis and I -- we met yesterday, and I was trying
11:41:49:25 to point out to him that there was a different
11:41:52:27 category, and I asked Mr. Johnson to structure it.
11:41:56:01 So he's done that to show us all the different
11:41:59:27 positions that the meeting requirement that we laid out
11:42:03:06 for them.
11:42:03:21 And this is -- and did you go over this?
11:42:06:09 I had to step out for a minute.
11:42:08:18 Four residents category here, we had a for-profit
11:42:11:22 category, two people there.
11:42:13:03 Profit only.
11:42:14:13 Got three in that category.
11:42:16:18 You have the not for profit.
11:42:18:00 One, two, three, four, five people in that area and two
11:42:20:25 at large.
11:42:21:21 He's broken it down to show us each category.
11:42:24:24 Thank you, Mr. Johnson, for that.
11:42:26:13 I think it's very clear and hopefully Mr. Davis can see

11:42:30:18 this, if you don't have a copy of this, certainly I
11:42:33:06 hope that Mr. Johnson would make sure you get a copy of
11:42:35:27 that.
11:42:37:03 Madam Chair, I want to speak to that.
11:42:39:06 So that, Mr. Davis, has been answered based on our
11:42:43:19 discussion yesterday.
11:42:44:09 The other thing, I also talked to Mr. Johnson and
11:42:48:18 Mr. Huey about the sidewalk issue, and that's going to
11:42:51:19 be coming back later on in the strategic plan.
11:42:55:00 There are questions now about sidewalks in front of
11:42:58:15 school as to whether it's city property or School Board
11:43:01:06 property.
11:43:01:21 So those issues are being addressed.
11:43:04:28 The thing that's encouraging, though, once the
11:43:07:19 strategic plan comes forward, it will address some of
11:43:10:06 those sidewalks, and there will be a plan to implement
11:43:12:27 them as they go forward.
11:43:14:12 So I just want to say to you on the record, those
11:43:17:10 issues that you brought to me yesterday, they have been
11:43:19:21 addressed or are being addressed.
11:43:22:12 Thank you, Madam Chair.
11:43:28:21 >> May I respond just briefly?
11:43:31:12 I did and I just got when he made his presentation.
11:43:34:07 But one of the things I did not hear is the staggering
11:43:38:09 term requirement.

11:43:39:25 Granted, we've got 13 members.
11:43:43:10 Granted, they are integrated with the specific five
11:43:50:06 categories, but come 1 October of '08, who serves for
11:43:57:06 what term so that adequate preparation can be made for
11:44:02:06 the upcoming election so that no election would cause
11:44:07:18 the elections of more than six members during a
11:44:12:27 particular year.
11:44:15:04 Majority of your members should be retained at least
11:44:19:27 for that term if the staggering term is kicked in
11:44:23:03 properly.
11:44:23:18 Let me say one other thing, Madam Chair, I understand
11:44:28:18 the public comment has already been made, when I see a
11:44:34:15 flock of eagles flying over me, I rejoice because they
11:44:39:07 represent our national symbol.
11:44:44:06 But when eagles do what they do, and someone tells me
11:44:49:27 that manna from heaven, then I have some concern.
11:44:54:07 I won't say more.
11:44:57:24 >>GWEN MILLER: All right, thank you.
11:45:00:07 >> I would like that to be responded from Mr. Johnson
11:45:06:21 level and then Mark Huey level and I did consult with
11:45:12:18 Councilman Scott, and I really appreciate that,
11:45:14:24 Mr. Scott.
11:45:16:00 And at least I got something that resembles, but then
11:45:20:09 it's not complete because they don't have the
11:45:22:12 staggering terms.

11:45:24:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: At the bottom, Madam Chair, it's right
11:45:28:15 there at the bottom.
11:45:29:27 The staggering terms.
11:45:31:15 It's on the handout.
11:45:33:21 It's in full detail.
11:45:35:25 >> If I may, one of the sad things about it, I don't
11:45:39:15 see as quickly as I could used to.
11:45:45:00 The manner by which these candidates became members of
11:45:48:18 the slate, to me it was surreptitiously.
11:45:56:07 I knew nothing about it.
11:45:56:09 Who am I to know?
11:46:00:24 The point is, at the local level, staff and the CAC, I
11:46:08:15 read very carefully your policy on the CAC.
11:46:11:28 I read very carefully the redevelopment plan.
11:46:16:12 I read very carefully your rules of procedures, and I
11:46:21:06 have some concerns, at least at the local level, that
11:46:25:10 seems to be some areas, as a matter of fact, I got a
11:46:31:27 pat on my head, but I think you ought to stop.
11:46:39:01 Thank you.
11:46:42:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Johnson, would you come to the mike
11:46:44:27 a minute, please?
11:46:46:01 For the election, they are going to be electing three
11:46:51:07 residents, right?
11:46:53:00 >> That's correct.
11:46:55:10 Well, the three residents that qualified will have no

11:46:59:21 opposition, so when the election takes place, I'm sure
11:47:02:18 they'll just be ratified as being residents for the
11:47:07:03 resident only slate.
11:47:10:12 The other one for the for-profit business owner, you
11:47:14:15 have two that obviously would qualify.
11:47:17:09 So one of these two would obviously be elected during
11:47:22:06 the election process to fill that for-profit business
11:47:25:06 owner slot.
11:47:26:24 >>GWEN MILLER: What about property owner?
11:47:28:13 You have two names for property owner?
11:47:30:09 >> Well, property owners, the two we have highlighted
11:47:32:24 that came in from last month's applications, they did
11:47:36:24 not qualify for the two categories that we are required
11:47:41:04 to fill.
11:47:41:27 And that was for resident and for for-profit business
11:47:45:22 owner.
11:47:46:07 They only qualify for the property owners.
11:47:48:21 We already have a property owner already on the board.
11:47:52:21 >>GWEN MILLER: So these two would not be on the ballot.
11:47:55:21 >> They would not be.
11:47:56:16 >>GWEN MILLER: On the ballot.
11:47:58:09 >> Well, they can be placed on the ballot, but we're
11:48:01:00 not electing for a property owner position.
11:48:03:27 We're only electing for --
11:48:06:12 >>GWEN MILLER: If you don't need a property owner, why

11:48:08:24 would you put them on the ballot if you don't need
11:48:11:10 property owner?
11:48:12:06 Why would their names be on the ballot if you don't
11:48:14:24 need a property owner?
11:48:15:28 >> We left them here because you approved those
11:48:17:27 candidates at the last month's meeting as being
11:48:22:06 eligible for membership.
11:48:24:22 So when it goes to election, we're only going to then
11:48:29:00 put on the election ballot when that takes place at the
11:48:32:22 next month's election process, the individuals applying
11:48:38:04 for the only two positions that we are electing for,
11:48:41:06 and that's for the resident only and the for-profit
11:48:45:03 business owners.
11:48:45:27 But we left these candidates on here because they were
11:48:48:04 received through the application process and did meet
11:48:51:22 those categories.
11:48:52:07 >>GWEN MILLER: So you had them on the ballot.
11:48:54:22 I wondered why they were still there.
11:48:56:22 Okay.
11:48:59:07 >> If I could address the staggering of the terms as
11:49:01:22 Mr. Davis is referring to, that's on the bottom of this
11:49:04:18 handout that I provided.
11:49:06:06 What will take place in this next election is that we
11:49:09:12 will be electing three individuals for resident,
11:49:15:13 because we already have one resident on the board and

11:49:17:21 one for profit.
11:49:18:16 That's four folks that will be elected in this 2008
11:49:21:18 election.
11:49:22:03 In 2009 election, the current nine members of the board
11:49:26:18 will automatically come off the board, because they
11:49:29:13 would have completed their two-year term.
11:49:31:19 So we would be electing a brand-new group of board
11:49:34:27 members in the 2009 election.
11:49:38:07 At that time, it's anticipated that that election
11:49:40:10 process will take place where the candidates that will
11:49:44:13 be placed on that particular agenda will run for
11:49:48:06 one-year terms and two-year terms to start this cycle
11:49:52:15 of being able to have these staggered terms.
11:49:56:12 That's what the game plan is going forward.
11:49:58:18 And then all future -- all future elections starting in
11:50:02:10 2010 will elect then six members.
11:50:05:04 Because then you would be in the cycle to elect six
11:50:08:03 members.
11:50:08:18 That's how they chose to address the staggering issue.
11:50:14:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Need to go back to item number 7.
11:50:16:21 Mr. Dingfelder made a motion to continue to September,
11:50:19:12 but September will be a busy month.
11:50:20:27 So we need to move it.
11:50:26:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think this is a really excellent
11:50:28:24 suggestion and I think we should do it as quickly as we

11:50:30:21 can.
11:50:30:28 If you think September will be too busy, I'll take it
11:50:33:18 to October.
11:50:37:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's one side.
11:50:38:12 On the other side, I hate to say this, but I don't want
11:50:40:15 to be put into a position where we approve a slate for
11:50:44:09 the CRA, and then we appoint ourselves to the same area
11:50:47:27 that we're there, we appointed a slate to recommend to
11:50:51:06 us and then we elect ourselves to go to the CRA.
11:50:54:15 I think right there, there's a legal problem, I don't
11:51:00:00 know how to answer.
11:51:01:13 I'm not a lawyer, but I think if I approve a slate and
11:51:06:06 I'm just talking about me, the other six are entitled
11:51:09:12 to their opinion, if I approve a slate to represent me
11:51:13:07 in the city and our CRA and then I appoint myself to
11:51:18:19 the CRA, I see a direct conflict of interest there.
11:51:21:09 >>GWEN MILLER: I agree with you, Mr. Miranda.
11:51:24:15 If we're going to put ourselves on the committee -- we
11:51:33:21 don't have a right to tell the CRAs what to do.
11:51:37:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Dingfelder is not here, and to
11:51:40:18 his honor that he's not here, I don't want to discuss
11:51:42:12 it because he's the one that brought it up, and I think
11:51:42:12 I owe it to him for him to be here.
11:51:47:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If he's not here, we need to move it to
11:51:50:01 another agenda.

11:51:51:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: October.
11:51:53:16 >>GWEN MILLER: October CRA meeting.
11:51:54:21 [Motion Carried]
11:51:57:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Earlier in our meeting, Ms. Janelle
11:51:59:04 Anson gave us a template for tracking projects that I
11:52:04:15 thought would be really helpful, and I would like to
11:52:06:13 put that on our October agenda as well for the staff,
11:52:09:01 and I'll provide the information that she provided us.
11:52:12:12 What we have here is very broad.
11:52:14:28 I think more specific information is good for
11:52:17:01 everybody.
11:52:18:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion and second.
11:52:20:04 All in favor, aye.
11:52:21:19 Opposed, nay.
11:52:22:15 [Motion Carried]
11:52:23:04 Any new business?
11:52:25:21 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, I would like to request or move
11:52:29:27 that the East Tampa CRA staff provide us with a map of
11:52:41:06 all the city-owned properties in East Tampa.
11:52:46:12 I think there's a list available, so I would like the
11:52:49:12 list but also a map.
11:52:50:27 And kind of further to this, I think we should be able
11:52:54:16 to see this for all of the CRAs.
11:52:56:15 So maybe going forward we could continue to do -- see
11:53:02:01 that for all the other CRAs, too.

11:53:04:09 So maybe over the next year, maybe once a month we
11:53:09:15 could get another one.
11:53:10:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: East Tampa by September?
11:53:16:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
11:53:16:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:53:19:12 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:53:20:27 All in favor of the motion, aye.
11:53:22:04 [Motion Carried]
11:53:22:27 Another information from Council members?
11:53:25:13 >> Receive and file.
11:53:26:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to receive
11:53:28:15 and file.
11:53:29:04 All in favor of the motion, aye.
11:53:30:27 Mr. Huey, anything else?
11:53:32:07 We stand adjourned until 1:30.
11:53:37:00

DISCLAIMER:
The preceding represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied upon
for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
transcript.
The original of this transcript was produced in all
capital letters and any variation thereto may be a
result of third party edits and software compatibility
issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.







TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, August 21, 2008
1:30 p.m. session

DISCLAIMER:
The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
transcript.
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.


13:36:57 [Sounding gavel]
13:36:58 >> Tampa City Council is called back to order.
13:37:00 Roll call.
13:37:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
13:37:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:37:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
13:37:08 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
13:37:13 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to go back to item 42, 43,
13:37:16 44, 45.

13:37:19 We are supposed to move after CRA.
13:37:22 Can I have a motion?
13:37:23 >> So moved.
13:37:24 >> All in favor of that motion say Aye.
13:37:26 (Motion carried).
13:37:28 Now we are going to go to item number 90.
13:37:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Would you like to swear in the
13:37:35 witnesses for item 90?
13:37:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, I will.
13:37:38 If anyone here is to speak on item 90, will you please
13:37:41 stand and raise your right hand?
13:37:42 Item 90.
13:37:50 (Oath administered by Clerk)
13:38:11 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I know this case is continued but I
13:38:13 don't believe there's been a presentation on it yet.
13:38:15 So I'll go through it briefly.
13:38:18 Case WZ 08-91 for the towers of Channelside LLC, 1103
13:38:26 east Cumberland Avenue, they are requesting a 4(COP)
13:38:29 wet zoning which is under the old process.
13:38:31 It is a 4(COP), to sell full alcohol, in the proposed
13:38:37 nightclub and patio.
13:38:38 That area is 13,853 square feet.

13:38:42 Lower level is 9154 square feet and there is an upper
13:38:46 level mezzanine.
13:38:47 If you look at the background information in your
13:38:49 staff report, there is an exhibit "A."
13:38:54 And I have highlighted it on the overhead.
13:38:56 Exhibit A is a 9,154 square feet at the lower level.
13:39:01 And exhibit "B" is the upper level mezzanine which is
13:39:04 4,699 square feet.
13:39:07 What you will note on the first page of the staff
13:39:09 report is that this 4(COP) was previously approved
13:39:14 under ordinance 2005-270 for five retail areas.
13:39:19 And then on page 2 of the staff report you will note
13:39:21 that there was a 2007 ordinance, exhibit "C" and "D"
13:39:27 which approved a 4(COP-X).
13:39:29 And three separate levels for a total of 23,268 square
13:39:32 feet.
13:39:34 There is a list of the alcohol establishments within a
13:39:40 thousand feet there. Were many of them.
13:39:41 Two residential developments within a thousand feet
13:39:45 and of course the Port Authority and U.S. customs
13:39:47 which is the institutional use.
13:39:48 You will note at the bottom of page 3 going into page

13:39:51 4, the criteria section 370 under the old code which
13:39:56 talks about the distance waiver, and the waivers for
13:39:58 the distance separations given that this is located
13:40:01 within the Channel District, which is called out as
13:40:05 one of the entertainment districts.
13:40:10 You have the ability for those restrictions.
13:40:14 There is no objection from staff. This is within The
13:40:16 Towers of Channelside property.
13:40:17 And this is the actual site.
13:40:22 It is the western side of the building.
13:40:30 I think that gives you the best context.
13:40:32 I can show you the rest of the building but I think
13:40:34 you are aware of what that looks like.
13:40:37 This is the side where the site S.we are available for
13:40:39 any questions.
13:40:40 >> Cathy, what's the connection to the residential
13:40:45 side as related to where you are talking about here?
13:40:51 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The connection to it?
13:40:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Are they connected?
13:40:54 Do you walk out of this area?
13:41:00 >> I will let the petitioner answer that question.
13:41:02 I have not been inside to see how it's physically

13:41:05 connected in the interior corridors.
13:41:06 But you can see, if you look at exhibit C, this is the
13:41:15 basic footprint with the towers themselves, and then
13:41:18 the portion of the pool deck.
13:41:25 It's on this side of the property and I'm not sure
13:41:27 where the internal connection is but there is a
13:41:28 drop-off/pickup area here. This is where the red bird
13:41:35 pizza is.
13:41:36 There are different entrances.
13:41:37 >> We have done a lot of wet zonings on this building.
13:41:40 It's sort of become a hodgepodge and wet and dry and
13:41:43 I'm sort of confused at this point.
13:41:45 >> There are so many exhibits.
13:41:46 I would ask that you go through them, because there
13:41:48 are many different levels and different pieces of
13:41:50 those levels that are wet zoned.
13:41:52 It's not the entire building.
13:41:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
13:42:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So already 2300 or 23,000 wet zoned
13:42:12 in the structure?
13:42:13 >> Under the 2007 ordinance -- oh, it's 23,268.
13:42:23 I think it's more than 23,268 square feet.

13:42:33 Just one second.
13:42:35 Can I look through it really quick and I'll answer
13:42:37 that in just a second.
13:42:38 >> Sure.
13:42:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Officer Miller?
13:42:44 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
13:42:47 department.
13:42:49 City of Tampa police department has no objections to
13:42:51 this wet zoning.
13:42:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Have you received any calls for
13:42:56 service here?
13:42:57 Because I received a phone message from residents who
13:43:03 said that they are experiencing problems like broken
13:43:08 car windshields.
13:43:12 >> There have been some calls for service out there.
13:43:20 What's going on street level or within the buildings?
13:43:26 Not a lot of calls for service.
13:43:28 There was some vandalism that occurred recently at the
13:43:31 towers but nothing internally, as far as they have
13:43:35 their own private security on those premises also.
13:43:37 >> Thank you.
13:43:40 >>> My name is Mark Bentley, 201 North Franklin

13:43:46 Street, Tampa, representing petitioner, tower holdings
13:43:50 LLC.
13:43:51 They are seeking a 4(COP) in connection with the
13:43:54 property that they own in fee simple that's part of
13:43:56 the overall master plan towers at Channelside which as
13:43:59 you know is a mixed use project that's already
13:44:01 completed at the northeast corner of Meridian and
13:44:05 Channelside Drive.
13:44:06 The subject property is already wet zoned, as Cathy
13:44:09 indicated, 4(COP), so the intention here is to simply
13:44:12 add an additional 1,896 square feet for property to
13:44:16 allow outside seating on the western side of the tower
13:44:20 number 1, which is adjacent to Meridian, applied
13:44:23 purchase, one strip of property from the Port
13:44:26 Authority I guess about a month ago.
13:44:31 So that's the gist of that.
13:44:33 The existing wet zoning pertains to both the lower
13:44:36 level and upper level.
13:44:37 So we are simply adding a little less than 2,000
13:44:41 square feet.
13:44:43 I'd like to give you some documents, and just put
13:44:50 those on the Elmo quickly.

13:44:58 The area right there is where the nightclub is.
13:45:01 That's the outside seating.
13:45:15 What I have on the board and I likewise gave you an
13:45:17 elevation, looking eastward from Meridian toward the
13:45:23 proposed development.
13:45:24 Secondarily, here's a survey sketch, the 1900 square
13:45:38 feet they are adding to the project.
13:45:44 In the proposed development at the property is a
13:45:46 restaurant, nightclub, and I have given you a copy of
13:45:49 their menu.
13:45:50 They are anticipating the grand opening in October.
13:45:52 It's an upscale nightclub.
13:45:54 What we have done here is computer generated depiction
13:46:01 of the restaurant, and it lasts about 15 seconds and
13:46:05 we could kind of go over that.
13:46:07 I think it gives you a lot of insight into the
13:46:09 location of the patio, and likewise the restaurant.
13:46:11 So technical, would you please run the DVD?
13:46:15 Well, here we go.
13:46:38 You can see the patio area actually to the left of the
13:46:40 screen.
13:46:44 I'd like to take credit for it but that's beyond me.

13:47:08 You can see, it's really a cool development.
13:47:12 >> Does the outside include upstairs and offices?
13:47:28 >> The outside is just --
13:47:32 I guess if you are familiar with blue martini, the
13:47:35 outside seating, it's similar to that.
13:47:37 And I think it's important -- John, you raised some
13:47:40 questions about hodgepodge I guess you characterized
13:47:44 it as wet zonings.
13:47:45 A few years ago before it was Connecticut instructed I
13:47:48 handled the wet zoning. What we did through one wet
13:47:50 zoning is wet zoned about four our five spaces and
13:47:53 imposed conditions upon various spaces, there could be
13:47:56 a package store, for example, or restaurant that
13:47:58 couldn't sell package and things like. That so what
13:48:00 Cathy alluded to, what happened in 2007 is another
13:48:04 space in the tower.
13:48:05 Tower one on the north side, the Cumberland side.
13:48:08 They came in and wet zoned independently another
13:48:10 portion of the project.
13:48:12 Okay?
13:48:12 So it's really only been two wet zonings, the one we
13:48:17 handled circa 2005-2006, 2007, and today we are simply

13:48:22 modifying the one from 2005.
13:48:24 And I think it's important to note obviously that TPD
13:48:28 has no problem, and some issues have come up
13:48:32 concerning the towers and the use of some common areas
13:48:35 and things like that, and what we have done through a
13:48:38 series of meetings, and input from residents and the
13:48:40 homeowners association, is we have reached agreement
13:48:44 and these people are here in support, so we submitted
13:48:46 a petition to City Council a few days ago with 26
13:48:49 signatures, convening in early August attended by 26
13:48:56 people and all signed a petition including Betty
13:48:57 Castor.
13:48:59 In any event, there's a lot of support for what's
13:49:03 proposed, and also -- I haven't received any negative
13:49:13 feedback.
13:49:13 And let me answer this question concerning access to
13:49:15 the first floor.
13:49:17 I own a unit there, too.
13:49:19 And there's been some vandalism.
13:49:22 I think primarily because the bottom is not completely
13:49:27 secure, so people walk in, cut through to a hockey
13:49:30 game or something like that, they'll break a car

13:49:32 window.
13:49:33 But we have 24 hour security so they are working on
13:49:36 that.
13:49:36 They have actually tried to enclose more of the first
13:49:38 floor with walls and stuff like that.
13:49:39 So unless you have any questions, I would appreciate
13:49:42 your giving the audience an opportunity to elicit
13:49:48 their support.
13:49:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Does that conclude the presentation?
13:50:02 >>MARK BENTLEY: One thing I forgot to mention.
13:50:04 Petition and support was qualified with two
13:50:06 conditions, to be imposed which we agreed to, and
13:50:08 Rebecca already drafted an ordinance, two conditions.
13:50:11 One, there be no amplified music, amplified or live
13:50:15 music out on the open patio area.
13:50:17 Number two, there would be no speakers.
13:50:19 And that would be part of the ordinance.
13:50:20 So we are fine with that.
13:50:22 That's all.
13:50:23 Thank you.
13:50:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?
13:50:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman?

13:50:29 Mark, two things.
13:50:30 One, you had a bunch of folks, residents sign a
13:50:32 petition.
13:50:32 They asked for two conditions?
13:50:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, sir.
13:50:35 >> You included those in your ordinance?
13:50:40 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
13:50:41 Yes, I did receive those, and if it's the will of
13:50:44 council I have a substitute ordinance for you to
13:50:45 consider with those two conditions.
13:50:47 >> No speakers outside and no live music outside?
13:50:52 >> Speakers shall be prohibited in the exterior of the
13:50:54 wet zoned property and the playing of amplified or
13:50:56 live music is prohibited in the exterior of the wet
13:50:59 zone property.
13:50:59 >> And the other question, mark, Mr. Bentley, is you
13:51:04 are showing us, you provided us a nice menu which
13:51:08 leads to the obvious question, why not a 4(COP-R)?
13:51:12 >>MARK BENTLEY: Okay, because the sales of alcohol
13:51:14 will exceed the sale of food.
13:51:17 But one thing they are willing to do is, because there
13:51:20 was a considerable debate about this, is modify that

13:51:22 to a 4(COP-X).
13:51:24 So there would be no package sales.
13:51:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can you do that?
13:51:34 >>REBECCA KERT: I will have to redo the ordinance.
13:51:38 You do have an appeal I believe at the end of the day.
13:51:40 I can probably get it done later during the appeal.
13:51:42 >> That would be a good compromise.
13:51:44 We do have a letter of objections.
13:51:46 >> Once again, councilman Dingfelder, it's just a
13:51:49 straight 4(COP) as we speak.
13:51:51 Thank you.
13:51:51 >> Not the outside space.
13:51:53 >> No.
13:51:54 That's correct.
13:51:57 I mean, the balance of the 22,000 square feet.
13:52:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could you provide another copy of
13:52:04 the petition?
13:52:04 I don't seem to have one.
13:52:06 Thank you.
13:52:14 >> You want the report?
13:52:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The petition he says 23 people
13:52:18 signed.

13:52:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Oh.
13:52:20 In here.
13:52:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's probably on the back of that.
13:52:25 >>> I can make a photocopy of mine.
13:52:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
13:52:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Let me see how many people want to
13:52:44 address council on this petition.
13:52:47 How many people want to address, if you will raise
13:52:49 your hand so I can tell.
13:52:50 How many?
13:52:51 Okay.
13:52:51 How many of you all are in opposition?
13:52:55 Anyone here in opposition?
13:52:58 Okay.
13:53:00 And those that raise your hand, you are in support?
13:53:05 Do you just need to speak?
13:53:12 Okay.
13:53:14 I was just trying to expedite our schedule.
13:53:16 But if you want to speak, certainly come on down.
13:53:19 You have that right.
13:53:19 >>> May I ask how many are in support, raise your
13:53:27 hands?

13:53:29 >> They did that, yes.
13:53:30 But if you want to come down and state your name and
13:53:32 address for the record and say you are in support,
13:53:34 that's fine.
13:53:35 Come on.
13:53:43 >>> James Erwin, 1211 east Cumberland Avenue, tower
13:53:46 one of towers of Channelside.
13:53:48 I'm very much in support of this project.
13:53:50 Mr. Solomon and his group have been very accommodating
13:53:53 to the residents.
13:53:55 Any concerns that they have have been addressed.
13:53:59 So far as to fly the architect in with finished
13:54:02 samples and do a presentation for us which was
13:54:04 mentioned earlier.
13:54:05 I just think that at a time when we look around and
13:54:08 see empty retail spaces, developing Channelside area
13:54:13 is inspirational to see a project going forward.
13:54:16 And of the quality that it is.
13:54:19 So I am very much in support of the project.
13:54:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
13:54:23 Next speaker.
13:54:24 Thank you, sir.

13:54:26 >>> Troy huffman, 1211 east Cumberland Avenue, unit
13:54:30 96, I'm also a resident in tower one where this will
13:54:34 be.
13:54:35 I am also in favor of adding this.
13:54:38 I think it will be -- it's very nice, very
13:54:40 aesthetically appealing to the building, doesn't take
13:54:43 away from that.
13:54:44 And I basically copy everything Jim had said.
13:54:48 I agree wholeheartedly and I think we need more
13:54:50 outside seating like this in the Channelside area.
13:54:53 I think it will bring a lot more activity down to the
13:54:55 area.
13:54:55 So I am in support.
13:54:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
13:54:59 Next speaker.
13:55:02 >>> Julie Hautman, and I also live at the towers of
13:55:06 Channelside in tower two, which is 445.
13:55:12 I'm also here in favor of the project.
13:55:14 And with one of the people who met in the meeting, the
13:55:19 ongoing meetings that we have had, over the time and
13:55:24 continue to be in support.
13:55:26 Thank you.

13:55:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
13:55:29 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Move we close the hearing.
13:55:34 >> Second.
13:55:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Did you need anything else?
13:55:39 >>> No, thank you.
13:55:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I really like the X, the no package
13:55:43 sales.
13:55:44 So I think we need to hear formally from you.
13:55:49 >>MARK BENTLEY: We formally amend our application
13:55:52 before the council from 4(COP) to 4(COP-X).
13:55:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So that means it will be brought
13:55:58 back --
13:56:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Later.
13:56:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You already have.
13:56:04 >>REBECCA KERT: I need a motion to have the ordinance
13:56:05 revised to 4(COP-X) and we will try to bring it back
13:56:08 before the end of the meeting.
13:56:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion to close.
13:56:11 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
13:56:12 (Motion carried).
13:56:13 We need a motion then.
13:56:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move to bring it back with the X.

13:56:17 I compliment you, Mr. Bentley.
13:56:18 I heard a lot of discontent awhile back, not about
13:56:21 this but about other things, and you obviously have
13:56:24 convinced the neighbors who are important to us that
13:56:28 this will be a very positive addition.
13:56:31 >> Second.
13:56:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
13:56:33 Seconded by councilman Caetano.
13:56:36 (Motion carried).
13:56:39 That will come back at what time, the end of the day?
13:56:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, the meeting is closed.
13:56:45 There will be no additional testimony.
13:56:47 For those people are here now, the second reading for
13:56:50 that at that time will be --
13:56:55 >>THE CLERK: The second reading will be September --
13:56:59 September 3rd at 9:30 a.m.
13:57:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
13:57:06 Council, we need to go back and take up the other
13:57:09 items that we have.
13:57:14 Item 87, 88 and 89.
13:57:21 Motion to open.
13:57:22 >> So moved.

13:57:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
13:57:23 (Motion carried).
13:57:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
13:57:27 Item 87, the second adoption public hearing.
13:57:38 Anyone wishing to address council?
13:57:39 Anyone wish to address council on item 87?
13:57:42 This is the comp plan.
13:57:45 >>RANDY GOERS: Land Development Coordination.
13:57:47 I would ask if you could open up the public hearing
13:57:50 for 87 and 88.
13:57:52 My presentation will be on both.
13:57:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Opened up on all of them already, 87,
13:57:57 88 and 89.
13:57:59 >>RANDY GOERS: I do have a presentation, I believe,
13:58:01 that will be loaded.
13:58:06 There we go.
13:58:07 To give you a brief overview, there were some
13:58:12 questions I think that came up after the first
13:58:14 adoption hearing but I wanted to take you through the
13:58:17 plan amendments, and hopefully answer all questions,
13:58:19 and you can have your next vote.
13:58:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Are you addressing the questions that

13:58:29 was raids?
13:58:31 >>> Yes.
13:58:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Who raised them?
13:58:33 >> We can address that if we move forward on it.
13:58:36 >>I want to make sure we don't address the whole plan,
13:58:39 but address the questions that were raised at that
13:58:41 meeting.
13:58:42 >> I'll see if I can get our technology to work.
13:58:45 Maybe the guy in technology can help me move it along.
13:58:54 There we go.
13:58:58 Here's the location of the two plan amendments.
13:59:02 Next slide.
13:59:10 There we go.
13:59:12 PA 07-02 is the parcel that is highlighted, 26.7
13:59:16 acres, going from light industrial to CMU 35, has 13.6
13:59:21 acres of environmentally sensitive area.
13:59:25 It required to complete a traffic study and wetlands
13:59:28 determination.
13:59:30 At the transmittal hearing petitioner agreed to limit
13:59:32 the development to 15 dwelling units an acre to
13:59:35 provide an easement in the southern part of the
13:59:38 property in the clear zone, and to attenuate for

13:59:42 noise.
13:59:43 The second parcel is PA 07-08 is 25.5 acres going from
13:59:49 light industrial community mixed use, 35, has 8.6
13:59:54 acres environmentally sensitive area.
13:59:56 It's under the comprehensive plan, is limited to 10
14:00:01 dwelling units per acre.
14:00:02 Even though it is seeking 35 it is limited to 10.
14:00:06 Must attenuate for noise, required to determine the
14:00:09 wetlands determination.
14:00:12 And to complete a traffic study.
14:00:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:00:17 Before you move that, I understand Councilwoman
14:00:22 Mulhern is the one that raised the questions and she's
14:00:24 not going to be here, I understand, is that right?
14:00:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question.
14:00:28 >> Can we deal with the specific questions?
14:00:30 >> That's way was trying to get at, yes.
14:00:32 Okay.
14:00:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I received a photograph of this
14:00:35 site from Mr. Steenson, the first we looked at.
14:00:42 And my concern when we looked at it initially is it
14:00:44 appeared to be pretty heavily treed, and I was

14:00:47 concerned even though these are broader concerns and
14:00:51 ultimately we are going to get down to how much of the
14:00:52 land is developable, and that's based on what is low,
14:00:56 what's high and how many grand trees are around.
14:00:58 But while in this, where we are right now, I don't
14:01:01 know if a property owner has any responsibility to
14:01:04 protect these grand trees on the property, but that
14:01:07 would really affect how much of it is developable and
14:01:11 the proposed density which is pretty high, 15 units to
14:01:14 the acre, you know, one or two acres that are
14:01:17 precluded from development because of grand trees that
14:01:19 make a pretty significant difference in terms of the
14:01:22 total projected development.
14:01:25 So I don't think the area is necessarily appropriate
14:01:28 anymore for light industrial but I don't think it's
14:01:30 appropriate for dense residential, and I wonder if in
14:01:36 the staff's formulation you looked at the existing
14:01:39 tree canopy, and have an estimate of what the total
14:01:43 number of dwelling units that heir developable on this
14:01:47 property are.
14:01:48 Because I think the whole property is about 25 acres.
14:01:54 >> Haven't done that type of analysis.

14:01:58 When we did land use change, looking at it from, is it
14:02:01 the appropriate use for the property?
14:02:02 When the appropriate --
14:02:04 >> Okay.
14:02:04 What I'm saying is, I don't think that light
14:02:07 industrial is appropriate.
14:02:08 But I think that perhaps a lesser density residential
14:02:12 would be appropriate.
14:02:12 And since you said you haven't analyzed the trees, and
14:02:18 I think did the MacDill weigh in on this?
14:02:24 Did they have an opinion about this?
14:02:25 >> Yes.
14:02:26 >> What is their recommendation?
14:02:29 >>RANDY GOERS: Well, MacDill is opposed to it, but
14:02:32 I could answer all those questions in the context.
14:02:38 Okay.
14:02:38 What we see on the map here is the red is the clear
14:02:42 zone, the MacDill Air Force clear zone.
14:02:46 Green is the flight path to give you an idea where the
14:02:48 properties are located.
14:02:49 Keep in mind at the end of the run way, at the very
14:02:52 bottom of the slide, so even though it's close to the

14:02:54 clear zone it's 3,000 feet away from the edge of the
14:02:57 runway.
14:03:03 If I can get the next slide.
14:03:06 These are the noise contours.
14:03:09 Basically, what MacDill does to reduce noise
14:03:14 impact, you can see the surrounding property on the
14:03:16 left of your screen is what we call the 65 noise
14:03:22 barrier, and that's the threshold for noise
14:03:24 attenuation.
14:03:25 Property owners agree to attenuate for noise.
14:03:27 The property on the right-hand side, they are required
14:03:30 to attenuate for noise.
14:03:34 Next slide.
14:03:35 Planning Commission staff report looked at all of
14:03:38 these issues, that ability with MacDill, the
14:03:41 adjacent land uses, clear zone restrictions, the noise
14:03:44 concern, the loss of industrial land, wetland
14:03:47 projection and consistency with the comp plan.
14:03:50 The report after looking at these issues found the
14:03:52 plan amendment consistent with the comp plan.
14:03:55 Next slide.
14:03:56 March 30th, Planning Commission hearing, staff

14:04:00 submitted their report and recommendations.
14:04:02 MacDill Air Force Base objected to the map
14:04:05 amendment based on noise concerns, safety and
14:04:07 compatibility with the operations.
14:04:11 At the end of that public hearing the Planning
14:04:12 Commission found it consistent with the comp plan and
14:04:16 recommended approval.
14:04:18 Next slide.
14:04:20 April 10th public hearing, the Planning Commission
14:04:23 presented their report along with the Planning
14:04:25 Commission's recommendation for approval.
14:04:28 MacDill appeared at that public hearing and
14:04:30 submitted their letter and objected to the plan
14:04:32 amendments for the same reason -- noise,
14:04:34 compatibility.
14:04:36 Petitioner agreed to the stipulations for PAO 702
14:04:40 which was reducing it to 15 dwelling units an acre,
14:04:44 attenuating for noise, and providing an easement on
14:04:47 the southern portion.
14:04:48 City Council approved the plan amendment and
14:04:52 transmitted the amendments to the reviewing agencies.
14:04:57 Next slide.

14:04:58 These are the agencies that reviewed the plan
14:05:01 amendment.
14:05:02 Next slide.
14:05:03 In general, these were the concerns that we received
14:05:05 from the different agencies.
14:05:08 There were questions on military compatibility.
14:05:11 The compatibility with MacDill Air Force Base, the
14:05:14 proximity, the noise, consistency with the comp plan,
14:05:18 wetlands, environmental, transportation analysis,
14:05:21 historical resources, and involved some industrial
14:05:25 land.
14:05:25 We did the same items that the Planning Commission
14:05:27 addressed in their staff report.
14:05:29 So there's questions in some cases of clarification
14:05:31 and allocations, there were strong objections.
14:05:34 This is the S summary of when we looked at the
14:05:37 comments from all of the agencies.
14:05:39 The comments as we looked in blue are primarily
14:05:43 questions of concern or clarifications, comments that
14:05:46 were listed in red made stronger objections,
14:05:49 MacDill has been consistent throughout the entire
14:05:51 process, objecting to amendments because of their

14:05:54 proximity to the base, and noise concerns and so
14:05:56 forth.
14:05:57 DCA has more of a stronger objection, not so much in
14:06:02 the plan amendments themselves, but because in their
14:06:06 mind that we have not adopted military base
14:06:08 compatibility policies yet.
14:06:11 And in not doing that, they feel it's not possible to
14:06:15 assess a plan amendment for consistency.
14:06:18 We responded to the state comments in our report.
14:06:21 That is one of the things you will be asked to
14:06:23 approve.
14:06:23 Next slide.
14:06:25 What we tried to show is we do have a military base
14:06:28 compatibility criteria.
14:06:29 That criteria was adopted in 1991, I believe, at your
14:06:33 last 18 study which basically says plan amendments can
14:06:36 be approved if the maximum residential density does
14:06:39 not exceed 10 dwelling units an acre, noise impacts
14:06:43 are mitigated, access to MacDill Air Force Base is
14:06:45 not impeded but the AP's guidelines are in the
14:06:49 consistency, that a MacDill representative is
14:06:51 afforded the opportunity to review and comment, and if

14:06:54 compatibility can be achieved through reduced
14:06:57 densities.
14:06:57 So using this criteria, the plan amendment has been
14:07:00 gone through this review.
14:07:03 None of the -- the plan amendment in the APZ, ten
14:07:07 dwelling units an acre, the noise impacts are going to
14:07:09 be mitigated, the access to MacDill, neither one
14:07:14 cuts access to MacDill.
14:07:16 Guidelines were considered.
14:07:17 Guidelines were considered by the Planning Commission,
14:07:19 in their staff report.
14:07:20 Based on their review of the guidelines, they did not
14:07:23 feel that they were inconsistent with our comp plan.
14:07:26 MacDill was afforded an opportunity to review and
14:07:30 comment.
14:07:30 Again they provided those comments to the staff, to
14:07:34 the Planning Commission and City Council.
14:07:35 In the case of PA 07-02 the property owner asked for
14:07:40 35 dwelling units an acre.
14:07:42 He has agreed in a stipulation of 15 so he has reduced
14:07:46 the amount that he's asked for.
14:07:48 So the DCA, we have tried to assert to them that we

14:07:55 have criteria in the plan since 1990.
14:07:58 Legislature passed requirements in 2006 and there are
14:08:02 criteria has superseded it.
14:08:05 May not be a as strong as other communities.
14:08:08 Remember you asked the city to look at the JLUS
14:08:12 recommendations and that was an example of very
14:08:14 stringent compatibility, and the community did not
14:08:17 want to go that far into the restrictions.
14:08:21 So the fact that we couldn't make it any stronger, our
14:08:26 criteria is pretty much what is in the comprehensive
14:08:29 plan moving forward.
14:08:30 So we tried to let DCA know, saying this is the
14:08:34 criteria we are moving forward with, and we hope that
14:08:36 is sufficient for them.
14:08:39 Next slide, please.
14:08:41 Here's basically the whole total picture.
14:08:43 You see what's designated environmentally sensitive in
14:08:46 relationship to the clear zone, to the noise areas.
14:08:49 As you move forward to PA, 07-02 development, the site
14:08:55 clearly to the north, moves out of the noise areas,
14:08:59 out of the environmental areas, out of clear zone
14:09:01 areas, PA 07-08 is in an area which is surrounded by

14:09:08 residential development, and again, if it's site add
14:09:13 way from the environmental areas and than the noise
14:09:15 areas then it would be consistent with the
14:09:17 requirements in the comprehensive plan.
14:09:19 And the final slide.
14:09:23 As the plan amendments, City Council has the decision
14:09:26 either to adopt the proposals which are recommended,
14:09:29 you can adopt with changes, or not adopt the proposed
14:09:32 plan amendment.
14:09:34 You have that same option with all plan amendments.
14:09:37 So with that, if there's any specific questions that I
14:09:40 haven't answered with the general presentation.
14:09:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14:09:45 I want to make sure this no N no way hampers, when
14:09:49 they look at military brass looks at opening and
14:09:52 closing, that some of these bases throughout the
14:09:54 country, that this in no way jeopardize it is
14:09:56 existence of MacDill Air Force Base.
14:09:58 I think it's safe to say this is one of the reasons we
14:10:01 are not going to keep it open.
14:10:04 >>RANDY GOERS: I can't really speak for the decision
14:10:06 makers at BRAC.

14:10:08 They will look for how the community is working with
14:10:11 their military installings in achieving, and helping
14:10:16 them preserve their military operations.
14:10:19 It's the mission they are looking for.
14:10:20 To the extent that development encroaches or impedes
14:10:24 in that mission is one of the things that they'll take
14:10:26 into consideration.
14:10:27 But I can't say it has the same impact.
14:10:30 The development has been there for MacDill.
14:10:32 It's been for years.
14:10:33 And the mission has been preserved.
14:10:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
14:10:41 Randy, you said that I think it was DCA said not more
14:10:44 than ten units to the acre, and what's put forth is 15
14:10:49 units to the acre?
14:10:49 >> The PA 07-02, they are outside of the APZ zone, the
14:10:56 accident --
14:10:57 >> Doesn't that cut across a portion of the property?
14:10:59 >> The clear zone cuts across a portion of it but it's
14:11:03 not part of that requirement of ten dwelling units per
14:11:07 acre. In fact in the clear zone there should be no
14:11:09 residential development and petitioner has agreed to

14:11:11 that portion of it would be where the easement would
14:11:14 go.
14:11:16 As long as no development goes in the clear zone I
14:11:18 think we are okay.
14:11:19 >> Have you done the math to figure out how much
14:11:21 development is possible within the first area?
14:11:23 >>> I don't, but I could probably do it fairly
14:11:27 quickly.
14:11:27 If you go through their environmentally sensitive
14:11:30 areas, and PA 07, there is 26 acres, 13 of it, 14 of
14:11:37 it is about ESA.
14:11:39 That would leave another 13 acres at 15.
14:11:42 Well, 220 maximum.
14:11:44 220.
14:11:46 And there will be other site requirements that have to
14:11:49 be met.
14:11:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And you didn't factor in whether
14:11:52 they are grand trees because you. Taken a look at
14:11:54 that.
14:11:55 >>> No.
14:11:55 When I look at the site plan, again, have to see where
14:11:59 they are at and what that does to setbacks.

14:12:00 >> Are any existing grand trees protected until the
14:12:03 development occurs?
14:12:05 Has any moved in the last six months Pa that would not
14:12:07 be --
14:12:09 >>> All regulations are in the speck today.
14:12:12 Regardless if this plan amendment is going forward or
14:12:16 not.
14:12:16 >> Thank you.
14:12:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Additional questions?
14:12:26 Anybody from the public?
14:12:27 >>MARK BENTLEY: I represent the petitioners with
14:12:31 respect to items 87 and 88, which is PaO2,
14:12:38 international ink, the property adjacent to Interbay
14:12:42 outside the base I.want to address a couple of
14:12:44 questions that were raised by council.
14:12:47 As Randy indicated, we filed for CMU 35, the existing
14:12:50 designation is LI which would allow to 1.6 million
14:12:54 square feet.
14:12:56 Forget the wetland issues.
14:12:58 1.6 million square feet of office or retail.
14:13:01 So the only issue is the introduction of residential
14:13:03 and to what degree in this area.

14:13:06 Council heard and approved a rezoning last week of the
14:13:10 contiguous property to the east, 438-room hotel, and I
14:13:14 think MacDill's only concern at that time, they
14:13:16 sent an e-mail to staff was that they shouldn't share
14:13:20 the proper noise attenuation techniques, and my
14:13:24 client's property is not in the clear zone either, nor
14:13:26 was the hotel.
14:13:27 We have agreed to noise attenuation, two units per
14:13:34 acre and convey at no cost to the city an easement
14:13:37 across the southern roughly seven acres give or take
14:13:41 for the upper, I guess you call it, Tampa Bay -- not
14:13:45 upper.
14:13:45 The Tampa Bay greenway.
14:13:47 That's it.
14:13:47 Okay.
14:13:48 So that's a stipulation as well.
14:13:51 And if you have any concerns, we have got permits out
14:13:54 there to clear and Dick Seel from Sarasota, a highly
14:13:59 environment respected environmentalist, we had a
14:14:04 wetland determination, we had permits for clearing for
14:14:07 some easements and species and things like that.
14:14:13 So if there are grand or protected trees that's done

14:14:15 through the review process.
14:14:17 With regard to PA-08, that's what they call the APZ-1.
14:14:22 MacDill does.
14:14:23 Your staff is proposing to call of the just
14:14:26 generically a flight path N.any event 95% of the
14:14:28 property in APZ-1 is residential, and number 2, most
14:14:33 of it at a higher density than we are proposing.
14:14:35 If we weren't doing this plan amendment right now,
14:14:38 there's a policy in the comp plan that caps any
14:14:40 residential irrespective of whether they have CMU 35
14:14:43 or EMU of 60 to 10.
14:14:46 Most of that area is 10.
14:14:47 Okay.
14:14:48 So we are suggesting 10.
14:14:50 And we intend to do a mixed use project there.
14:14:54 Same issue with respect to that property.
14:14:55 We could do 1.7 million square feet, office, retail
14:15:01 development, and the only issue is introduction of
14:15:04 residential.
14:15:04 Now, I think it speaks volumes that MacDill, when
14:15:07 they objected to these plan amendments, that was
14:15:11 pretty long time ago.

14:15:12 We have come a long way down the path.
14:15:14 And since we have modified these two petitions to
14:15:16 reduce the density and agree to these other
14:15:19 stipulations, you haven't heard any objection from
14:15:22 MacDill.
14:15:22 They are not here today.
14:15:23 They were here last time and they didn't voice any
14:15:25 objection when they were in attendance at the first
14:15:28 public hearing.
14:15:28 So if you would like to hear from Mr. Seale, he can
14:15:33 lay the whole thing out.
14:15:34 We know every square inch of wetland.
14:15:36 EPC signed off.
14:15:38 SWFWMD.
14:15:40 They have been out there several times.
14:15:41 EPC determined there's no illegal clearing.
14:15:43 And we got all the permits and everything, Ms.
14:15:46 Saul-Sena.
14:15:47 But that's kind of it in a nutshell.
14:15:49 I think we have beaten this to death, Mr. Chairman,
14:15:51 and I'm prepared to resolve the noise issues.
14:15:53 I don't think it's necessary but I'm prepared to do

14:15:55 it.
14:15:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:15:57 Motion to close.
14:15:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: One quick question.
14:15:59 How many units did you say you all can build there?
14:16:02 >>MARK BENTLEY: I don't have my calculator but it's in
14:16:05 the range of about 275, something like that.
14:16:10 And you saw the aerial.
14:16:11 The development is going to be toward Interbay.
14:16:14 Obviously that's jurisdictional lands to the south and
14:16:16 there's nothing we can do with the property there.
14:16:18 Theoretically about 280.
14:16:20 Here again I don't have my calculator.
14:16:22 I have a different number than Randy because I know
14:16:24 how many acres are upland.
14:16:26 But we are in the same ballpark.
14:16:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close.
14:16:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
14:16:31 >> Second.
14:16:31 (Motion carried).
14:16:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:16:35 Council Miranda?

14:16:40 For 87 and 88.
14:16:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Was that motion to close both 87 and
14:16:46 88?
14:16:47 >> Yes.
14:16:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And 89 is still open?
14:16:50 >> Yes.
14:16:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Going to read 87?
14:16:53 I move on the comprehensive plan for second reading,
14:17:00 an ordinance amending the Tampa comprehensive plan,
14:17:03 future land use element, future land use map, for the
14:17:05 property located in the general vicinity of inter bay
14:17:07 Boulevard abutting MacDill Air Force Base between
14:17:10 Lois Avenue and Dale Mabry highway from light
14:17:13 industrial L 1 to community mixed use 35 CMU 35 and
14:17:19 potential environmentally sensitive areas ESA
14:17:23 providing provided for additional conditions of
14:17:25 development, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
14:17:27 conflict, providing for severability, providing an
14:17:28 effective date.
14:17:29 Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
14:17:31 Yes?
14:17:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Bentley, I appreciate the land

14:17:34 you are giving for the trail.
14:17:35 I appreciate your going to respect all the wetland
14:17:37 setbacks.
14:17:38 I still think it's a lot of density for a place that's
14:17:41 just away from a landing strip and I think it's going
14:17:45 to drive the people who live there craze which the
14:17:47 noise, so I can't support it.
14:17:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
14:17:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm sorry, I pushed the wrong
14:17:56 button.
14:17:56 Clear it.
14:17:57 Vote again?
14:17:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
14:18:33 >>THE CLERK: Not everyone has voted.
14:18:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Everyone record your vote.
14:18:40 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Saul-Sena voting
14:18:42 no, and Mulhern being absent at vote.
14:18:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 88.
14:18:49 Councilman Dingfelder.
14:18:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We closed it?
14:18:53 >> Yes.
14:18:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move the following ordinance

14:18:55 upon second reading.
14:18:58 An ordinance -- an amendment to the Tampa
14:19:01 comprehensive plan, future land use element, future
14:19:03 land use map in the following general vicinity of Dale
14:19:06 Mabry Highway, Sterling Avenue and south of Interbay
14:19:09 Boulevard from light industrial 1.5 to community mixed
14:19:13 use 35.
14:19:17 As I state add couple of months ago I'll support this
14:19:19 just because of the heavy intensity use that's already
14:19:23 on there.
14:19:23 I think a CMU 35 is actually a reduction.
14:19:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second?
14:19:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
14:19:29 Let me speak to that.
14:19:30 I agree Mr. Dingfelder.
14:19:32 That's twice today.
14:19:34 Let me also say that if somebody buys something and
14:19:39 doesn't realize the Air Force Base is right next to
14:19:42 them, they really have a problem.
14:19:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
14:19:46 Seconded by councilman Miranda.
14:19:47 Yes.

14:19:51 >>CLERK: Number 88?
14:19:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 88 was an ordinance on second
14:19:55 reading.
14:19:59 >> I read the top half.
14:20:02 Let me try again.
14:20:03 Ordinance for second reading.
14:20:04 An ordinance amending Tampa comprehensive plan, future
14:20:07 land use element, future land use map, for property
14:20:10 located in the general vicinity of Dale Mabry highway,
14:20:12 Sterling Avenue and south of Interbay Boulevard from
14:20:15 light industrial LI to community mixed use 35 CMU 35
14:20:18 and potential environmentally sensitive areas ESA
14:20:21 provided for additional conditions and development,
14:20:24 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
14:20:26 providing for severability, providing an effective
14:20:27 date.
14:20:28 Thank you, Marty.
14:20:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
14:20:33 Record your vote.
14:20:34 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena voting no,
14:20:37 and Mulhern being absent at vote.
14:20:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We are on item 89.

14:20:43 Item 89.
14:20:45 Is petitioner here?
14:20:46 >> Tampa Preservation.
14:20:56 This is from 1931.
14:20:59 The structure is located at 302 north Willow Avenue,
14:21:05 known as the dykes building and currently own by
14:21:07 decorative arts center of Florida.
14:21:09 This building was constructed in 1926, in the area
14:21:12 known as Dobyville.
14:21:17 I am going to go through the facade.
14:21:20 This is the front facade. This faces Willow. You
14:21:23 notice the decorative parapet.
14:21:26 The double hung wood windows and the typical
14:21:30 storefront.
14:21:36 You see the aerial so you get a better understanding
14:21:39 exactly where it's at.
14:21:40 Kennedy is to the south.
14:21:41 As you go up, you have north A, north B.
14:21:44 This is on the corner of north B and Willow.
14:21:46 To the west you have Oregon.
14:21:48 To the east you have New Port, university of Tampa
14:21:52 would be in this location, in this direction over

14:21:54 here.
14:21:57 Going to the rehabilitation taking place.
14:22:03 Once again this is the south elevation.
14:22:06 You see the original features still in place with the
14:22:10 step parapet.
14:22:12 Decorative, the double hung windows, the storefronts
14:22:16 were boarded up at that time.
14:22:18 After rehabilitation.
14:22:24 The parapet, the double hung windows, and the
14:22:35 storefronts were reintroduced.
14:22:39 On the storefront elevation they have a secondary
14:22:41 entrance.
14:22:41 And then just two final photos.
14:22:44 This is prior to rehabilitation on the inside.
14:22:50 And then after rehabilitation.
14:22:53 You see that the volume was kept, the expansive
14:22:58 ceiling, the floor height, the interior brick walls,
14:23:01 the double hung window, double hungs were kept in
14:23:09 place.
14:23:09 It does meet the secretary standards.
14:23:16 That's staff presentation.
14:23:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions?

14:23:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It looks like a beautiful rehab and
14:23:21 we appreciate the work they did.
14:23:24 Back a few slides, were those temporary signs on the
14:23:27 sides of the building?
14:23:30 Looked like plastic signs.
14:23:31 >>> If you go back to the Elmo.
14:23:35 This is a sign that remains.
14:23:39 This sign had been removed.
14:23:41 They were temporary in nature.
14:23:42 >> Good job, anyone who was involved.
14:23:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wishing to address council on
14:23:50 this item?
14:23:50 >> Move to close.
14:23:51 >> Second.
14:23:51 (Motion carried).
14:23:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14:23:57 I would like to move the ordinance, following
14:24:00 ordinance upon second reading, an ordinance approving
14:24:02 the historic preservation tax exemption application
14:24:06 relative to the restoration, renovation and
14:24:11 rehabilitation -- okay, first reading, rehabilitation
14:24:18 of certain property owned by decorative arts center of

14:24:20 Florida, LLC, located 302 north Willow Avenue, Tampa,
14:24:24 Florida, based upon certain signage, providing for
14:24:27 notice of property appraiser of Hillsborough County,
14:24:29 providing for severability, providing for repeal of
14:24:31 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective
14:24:32 date.
14:24:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
14:24:37 >> Second.
14:24:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to compliment the developer.
14:24:39 This is such a great example of redoing a building
14:24:42 that's kind of been overlooked and renovation.
14:24:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded by
14:24:49 councilman Dingfelder.
14:24:51 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:24:53 Opposes?
14:24:54 (Motion carried).
14:24:55 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano and Mulhern
14:24:58 being absent at vote.
14:25:00 The second reading of the ordinance will be September
14:25:03 4th at 9:30 a.m.
14:25:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, we'll take our 1:30 items.
14:25:09 All persons that are going to be addressing council

14:25:11 this afternoon, you need to be sworn.
14:25:13 Will you stand, please?
14:25:14 If you are going to be speaking to council on any item
14:25:16 this afternoon.
14:25:18 If you are going to talk to this council you have to
14:25:20 be sworn in.
14:25:31 (Oath administered by Clerk).
14:25:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 95.
14:25:42 Motion to open.
14:25:43 >> So moved.
14:25:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can we open all of the items?
14:25:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Open all the items between 94 and
14:25:55 104.
14:25:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Respectfully, Mr. Miranda, if you
14:25:58 could hold 104 separately, whereas the others are all
14:26:02 wet zonings.
14:26:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, item 94 can't be heard it's my
14:26:06 understanding.
14:26:10 95 through 103.
14:26:13 (Motion carried).
14:26:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 94 is removed from the agenda?
14:26:17 >> Yes.

14:26:18 >> Cathy Coyle, land development.
14:26:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you swear in the witnesses?
14:26:24 >> Yes.
14:26:25 Everybody has been sworn.
14:26:26 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Petitioner requesting a special use
14:26:29 approval for alcohol sales on our 4(COP-X), beer, wine
14:26:34 and liquor, location 4139 east Busch Boulevard in
14:26:39 conjunction with a recently renovated hotel and
14:26:42 restaurant.
14:26:42 There are 99 rooms on-site.
14:26:44 The site is currently zoned commercial general.
14:26:48 The 4(COP-X), beer, wine and liquor, consumption on
14:26:52 premises only.
14:26:53 The current code requires 197 parking spaces.
14:26:57 The site is existing.
14:26:58 It is as-built, provides 114 parking spaces, was built
14:27:03 under previous regulation for parking.
14:27:06 Just to give you some context of where it is.
14:27:11 It's on the south side of Busch at the intersection of
14:27:15 tangerine and Busch.
14:27:16 The large hotel, there's an apartment complex to the
14:27:19 west.

14:27:19 This is the kind of outparcel parking lot from Busch
14:27:23 Gardens to the east of Busch Gardens.
14:27:30 The site is -- it has been recently renovated.
14:27:50 Page 2 of the staff report staff did find it
14:27:53 inconsistent based.
14:27:56 Under evaluations we do evaluate these alcohol permits
14:27:58 requested by current code for parking standards as
14:28:01 council said in the new regulations.
14:28:03 They are objecting to that simply because there is
14:28:05 such a large reduction in parking but as I noted it's
14:28:09 an as-built situation.
14:28:11 Note number 2, Land Development Coordination did find
14:28:13 it consistent based on the criteria for a large venue,
14:28:18 and the 4(COP-X) definitions.
14:28:21 Page 3 and 4, you can see the distance separations
14:28:25 between other alcohol establishments, residential
14:28:28 establishments, and institutional uses.
14:28:31 Page 4, 5 and 6, the general criteria for council to
14:28:36 consider in approving or denying a special use permit.
14:28:38 And then on page 8, you will note that this was
14:28:41 previously wet zoned as a 4(COP), not an X but was
14:28:45 previously wet zoned as a straight 4(COP) which

14:28:48 reverted to dry status in 2005.
14:28:51 Probable coincided with the closing of the hotel.
14:29:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer Miller?
14:29:03 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
14:29:06 department.
14:29:06 I have been sworn.
14:29:07 The City of Tampa police department has in a objection
14:29:09 to this wet zoning. There was some concern by Temple
14:29:12 Crest neighborhood association who contacted me about
14:29:14 some concerns in reference to this wet zoning.
14:29:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:29:21 Petitioner?
14:29:23 Petitioner?
14:29:36 >> I'm one of the petitioners in the hotel and the
14:29:43 unit actually when we bought it, I guess, prior to us
14:29:47 buying it, had been operated with the restaurant and
14:29:51 the sports bar, in the same complex as the hotel, the
14:29:55 99-unit hotel.
14:29:56 But it had been shut down before we bought it.
14:29:59 And then it went from the wet to the dry while we were
14:30:05 renovating the hotel because we really didn't have a
14:30:07 use for it during that time.

14:30:10 Since then, the hotel is fully operational, and we are
14:30:15 underway with the lease tenant to use that as a sports
14:30:20 bar and a restaurant to support the 99-room hotel
14:30:25 facility.
14:30:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to clarify in my mind
14:30:35 and the record.
14:30:35 Are we saying that we are not wet zoning the whole
14:30:38 property, but a certain portion of the building?
14:30:50 Let me try again.
14:30:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you want to come and address the
14:30:53 question, please?
14:30:54 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:30:55 The request for alcohol sales is the entire structure,
14:30:58 the hotel and the restaurant portion.
14:30:59 >> The entire structure?
14:31:00 What about the parking lot?
14:31:02 >> Not the parking lot.
14:31:03 Just the building.
14:31:03 >> Not the sewer line or anything else?
14:31:05 >> No.
14:31:06 In a trees.
14:31:07 In a dumpsters.

14:31:08 Just the building.
14:31:08 >> Fine.
14:31:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions, council?
14:31:13 Anyone from the public wish to address council on this
14:31:16 matter?
14:31:17 Anyone else from council?
14:31:19 Anyone from the public?
14:31:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
14:31:23 >> Second.
14:31:24 (Motion carried).
14:31:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder, did you have a
14:31:28 question?
14:31:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yeah, I was hoping not to close
14:31:31 because I needed to ask the petition area question.
14:31:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to reopen the hearing.
14:31:36 >> Second.
14:31:36 (Motion carried).
14:31:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
14:31:42 Sir, if you could come forward.
14:31:44 The voter registration sent us some letters, e-mails,
14:31:48 that are part of the file and I don't know if you had
14:31:50 a chance to see them or not but they have expressed

14:31:52 some concern about it.
14:31:55 Personally, I don't have a problem with the
14:31:58 restaurant.
14:31:58 What is it, a restaurant?
14:32:02 Sports bar, and then a motel with it, right?
14:32:06 >>> Right.
14:32:06 There's a motel right next to there, a restaurant, for
14:32:11 use for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
14:32:13 And then next to that will be the sports bar.
14:32:15 >> And what is the intent to serve beer and wine -- or
14:32:20 all liquor, I guess, at both the restaurant and the
14:32:22 sports bar?
14:32:24 >>> Yes.
14:32:24 >> And why have you included the hotel and the motel?
14:32:28 >>> Because you may have patrons who might want to do
14:32:33 room service.
14:32:37 >> With beer and wine.
14:32:39 We have had this issue before.
14:32:42 I don't know, sometimes, obviously the neighbors
14:32:45 aren't here, but some of them expressed concern
14:32:47 because it's a daytime meeting and they had to work.
14:32:51 >>> I can tell you that there's a separate entrance

14:32:53 for the sports bar from the outside.
14:32:56 There's also a separate entrance for the restaurant.
14:32:58 And a separate entrance for the building.
14:33:01 The motel.
14:33:02 >> You are planning on room service as part of what
14:33:06 you are doing?
14:33:07 >> Yes.
14:33:07 We would like to.
14:33:09 I mean, that's how the motel used to operate before,
14:33:11 with the restaurant.
14:33:16 We definitely have clientele that may want to phone
14:33:19 into the restaurant and say they want to eat into the
14:33:22 room.
14:33:22 >> But the X doesn't allow sales to go off-site,
14:33:27 correct?
14:33:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What's the nearest residential
14:33:34 area there?
14:33:36 >>> All around us pretty much is all commercial.
14:33:38 We have a business across the street from us, down the
14:33:40 street, to the left and right.
14:33:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Sir, sir, you can't have a dialogue
14:33:53 with the audience.

14:33:55 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:33:56 Your staff report actually reflects having a
14:34:01 separation with residential.
14:34:04 This is an apartment complex immediately to the --
14:34:09 sorry.
14:34:11 This is an apartment complex to the west.
14:34:15 And you will note that to the rear of the property,
14:34:17 this is a residential back here to the south and then
14:34:23 Busch Gardens to the north and then the little
14:34:27 shopping center.
14:34:30 This is 46th right here.
14:34:31 So this is the onson noble, the cold gym is right
14:34:40 here.
14:34:40 >> But did the prior restaurant have a wet zoning?
14:34:45 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The entire property was a 4(COP)
14:34:48 which allowed the alcohol consumption as well.
14:34:51 They are asking for an X.
14:34:52 >> I understand.
14:34:53 I want to make sure that everybody understood that,
14:34:54 prior to that there was a wet zoning on the property.
14:34:57 >>> Correct.
14:34:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Including the rooms?

14:35:00 >> Yes.
14:35:00 It was a hotel.
14:35:03 >>> About three years ago.
14:35:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
14:35:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
14:35:09 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second.
14:35:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you have a question?
14:35:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, for staff.
14:35:17 You said there was some concern by neighborhood
14:35:19 organizations.
14:35:23 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police.
14:35:25 Yes, the Temple Crest neighborhood association
14:35:27 president called me and had some concerns.
14:35:30 And I think e-mailed council, also.
14:35:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
14:35:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: For the record I did receive two
14:35:40 e-mails regarding this site, I believe.
14:35:43 What I was bringing up, the past is the past.
14:35:51 I'm just -- I believe this is close to the famous
14:35:55 hotdog place?
14:35:56 >> Across the street.
14:35:58 >> And then to the left you have that.

14:36:00 And you used to have the property and the next can
14:36:04 restaurant.
14:36:04 What I'm hearing -- and I stated this this morning --
14:36:09 knife objection to a restaurant having liquor.
14:36:15 A sports bar, I can understand that.
14:36:17 And we had some of these come up on 50th or 52nd,
14:36:20 four or five months ago, that they wanted wet zoned,
14:36:23 the whole -- I don't know what percent of sales you
14:36:26 are going to sell from your establishment to somebody
14:36:30 who is staying in your motel.
14:36:32 I'm not telling you that I'm an expert in hotelism.
14:36:35 But I can tell you that if you are going to check into
14:36:38 a motel and drink, you are going to bring your own
14:36:41 bottle, or your own -- because you ain't going to pay
14:36:44 $80 for a bottle when you can get 80-ounces out of a
14:36:48 bottle at 50 cents an ounce so it doesn't make
14:36:50 economic sense especially in these times of history.
14:36:53 So for us, to continue doing this, I just don't see
14:36:56 the value versus the exposure that we have.
14:37:01 And I am not trying to change anybody's maned on
14:37:03 council.
14:37:04 I would never do that.

14:37:04 But I'm saying that I don't see the value in my vote
14:37:08 being for the whole structure with only apart of that
14:37:12 structure really lends itself to alcohol, which means
14:37:15 a sports bar.
14:37:16 I have no problem with that, or the restaurant.
14:37:18 And I have in a problem with that.
14:37:19 But when you start talking about all the 99 rooms, I
14:37:26 don't know what to tell you.
14:37:28 I don't understand the value to the property which had
14:37:33 alcohol.
14:37:33 It might be a deterrent to you that people see things,
14:37:36 they don't see with kids, they don't come back.
14:37:38 I just don't see the value in the business sense of
14:37:41 it.
14:37:41 And you might be hurting yourself instead of helping
14:37:44 yourself.
14:37:47 That's my suggestion to you.
14:37:51 And I see some heads nodding yes.
14:37:53 I guess those are your partners.
14:37:54 Or your ex-partners, I may say.
14:37:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
14:37:59 Mr. Miranda, I agree with everything you said, and I

14:38:04 think that based on what you said, I would like to
14:38:06 move to reopen the public hearing to allow -- I
14:38:09 thought we closed it.
14:38:12 Okay.
14:38:12 I would like to allow the Peter opportunity to amend
14:38:17 their request for just the restaurant portion and not
14:38:23 the room portions because I won't be able to support
14:38:26 the room portion.
14:38:30 >> Petitioner, would you consult with your former
14:38:33 partners?
14:38:36 Certainly.
14:38:48 >>REBECCA KERT: It's in your discretion, it's up to
14:38:50 you whether you want to approve or deny. This I would
14:38:52 remind you that you have had several hotels in the
14:38:55 downtown area and other areas that will be coming in
14:38:59 Channelside that may be coming before you in the
14:39:01 future.
14:39:01 And you will have to treat everyone the same.
14:39:02 And I know you are aware of that.
14:39:05 I'm cautioning in that.
14:39:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me, but you have always
14:39:09 pointed out to us that every case is unique in

14:39:11 proximity to residential is unique.
14:39:13 >>REBECCA KERT: It is.
14:39:13 >> Child care is unique.
14:39:15 >>> It is.
14:39:15 And so I'm saying --
14:39:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand.
14:39:20 >>> Just please be aware to use the criteria of the
14:39:23 special use.
14:39:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand.
14:39:25 >>> Because as do you have other hotels come forward
14:39:28 that you have approved in the past so just base it on
14:39:30 hotel use.
14:39:31 I just want you to be cautious about it.
14:39:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So your request is based on the
14:39:36 residential and churches?
14:39:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: My request exactly like you stated,
14:39:40 Mr. Dingfelder.
14:39:41 You and I thinking alike so long now the last eight
14:39:45 hours.
14:39:47 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:39:48 Just to echo what Ms. Kert said.
14:39:50 If you focus on page 4 of your staff report, 27-269,

14:39:55 those are the general standards for the special use
14:39:59 request itself.
14:40:00 Items A, 1 through 5.
14:40:03 So that will help you in framing the motion.
14:40:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:40:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Do we have to hear from the
14:40:11 petitioner?
14:40:12 >>> Yes, sir, I have considered consulted with our
14:40:16 partners, and based on your input, the focus is really
14:40:21 to be running the sports bar as well as the
14:40:23 restaurant.
14:40:24 The only thing we were looking for is the convenience
14:40:26 for the hotel clientele to be able to order from the
14:40:31 restaurant and things like that.
14:40:32 But if it appears to be something that, you know, in
14:40:35 your foresight you don't think it would be appropriate
14:40:38 for our clientele, then we are willing to drop that
14:40:40 request.
14:40:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say right next is an
14:40:43 apartment building.
14:40:44 I think I'm right in saying that.
14:40:45 And because of 27-269 A, 1 through 5, the proximity to

14:40:51 residential and apartments which is residential,
14:40:55 that's why I asked this question and you so kindly
14:40:57 agreed to have that, right?
14:41:00 >>> Yes.
14:41:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
14:41:02 Thank you.
14:41:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe, council, it will have to
14:41:05 be continued --
14:41:06 It has to be continued, I guess, until we do an
14:41:09 ordinance, is that right?
14:41:10 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:41:11 It's not just the ordinance that needs to be redone.
14:41:13 Survey itself needs to be redone, the legal
14:41:15 description needs to be rewritten to carve the hotel
14:41:17 portion out of it.
14:41:18 So it's properly described.
14:41:21 >> Do that next week?
14:41:23 >> It's not up to us.
14:41:24 It's their survey.
14:41:26 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a question for Cathy.
14:41:29 Cathy, you said with the hotel, how do you mean?
14:41:33 Because the restaurant is in the hotel.

14:41:35 What are you talking about?
14:41:36 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The restaurant is -- it all one
14:41:39 building.
14:41:44 The old name was as it's called the Safari.
14:41:48 The Safari lounge.
14:41:50 This is the entrance to the hotel and this is the
14:41:53 entrance to the restaurant portion.
14:41:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There was a giraffe outside there
14:42:05 years ago.
14:42:06 You're laughing.
14:42:06 I'm serious.
14:42:08 My mind is coming back to me.
14:42:09 >>> Hopefully they captured him and took him back
14:42:12 being to Busch Gardens.
14:42:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There was a giraffe that was there.
14:42:17 Right?
14:42:18 >>GWEN MILLER: You have to explain to me.
14:42:22 You said what the hotel was wet zoned but the
14:42:25 restaurant is inside --
14:42:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No, you see the restaurant is not
14:42:28 inside.
14:42:29 Restaurant is adjacent to by common walls.

14:42:32 >> So you can't go through the restaurant to the
14:42:33 hotel?
14:42:34 >> Is there an interior connection?
14:42:35 >>GWEN MILLER: You can't go through the restaurant to
14:42:37 the hotel?
14:42:38 >> yes, I think we are saying carve out the rooms.
14:42:44 What goes to the rooms.
14:42:48 >>GWEN MILLER: That's what he's requesting.
14:42:50 >> That's what Ms. Saul-Sena is suggesting that you
14:42:57 can't take it back to your rooms.
14:43:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Because it's residential and you
14:43:05 have the neighborhood close in proximity here.
14:43:07 And I'm not trying to speak out of order.
14:43:09 >>GWEN MILLER: I'm just saying, if I not package, it's
14:43:13 a restaurant --
14:43:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But they are going to have room
14:43:17 service to the rooms.
14:43:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The issue at this point is the
14:43:21 petitioner.
14:43:21 So I guess the question of the petitioner, are you
14:43:24 willing to take it back and amend your petition based
14:43:26 on what you are hearing today?

14:43:28 >>> Well, when we came here originally, obviously, we
14:43:32 were really interested in having the full, to have our
14:43:35 clientele have the ability to do the room service.
14:43:39 But if it is a major objection, then we will say that,
14:43:45 you know, no liquor wine should be served.
14:43:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I count three votes right now
14:43:50 against your application.
14:43:53 With the amendment at least.
14:43:54 >>> We are willing to go back and amend what has to be
14:44:00 necessary, if you believe that that will suffice for
14:44:03 us to be able to run the sports bar as well as the
14:44:05 restaurant.
14:44:07 The advantage is that we do definitely have separate
14:44:10 entrances.
14:44:10 From the main entrance of the hotel, you can go to the
14:44:14 restaurant.
14:44:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:44:18 Councilman Caetano.
14:44:19 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: If we don't approve the rooms, he
14:44:23 won't have any control if someone wants to bring in a
14:44:25 bottle or case of booze and drink it there.
14:44:28 But if he has control over the rooms, I think we have

14:44:32 better control over the whole thing.
14:44:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not trying to debate my council
14:44:43 member from district 7.
14:44:45 But I believe that is -- no one can control that, not
14:44:49 I, not the property owner.
14:44:52 You can still buy something at a high rate and go to
14:44:56 your truck and take out a case of booze if you want to
14:44:59 call it that and take it to your room.
14:45:01 You can do that with or without.
14:45:03 What I'm saying is that I believe we should not
14:45:07 encourage the thing of selling alcohol through the
14:45:13 whole building when the whole building in essence is
14:45:16 not a lounge and not a sports bar, and it's close
14:45:20 proximity to the residents right N next door, you have
14:45:24 an operation that is a dwelling of sorts that houses
14:45:28 individuals that live there.
14:45:32 Apartment buildings.
14:45:33 That's the only thing that I'm saying.
14:45:35 I'm not saying anything else.
14:45:36 I've always voted and will continue to vote, providing
14:45:38 it's not a child care center that wants to sell
14:45:41 alcohol and things of that nature, that these people,

14:45:44 the good people here, have the opportunity to have the
14:45:49 rate to sell alcohol.
14:45:50 That's not my intent to deny.
14:45:54 >>> Our intent was the property when we bought it was
14:45:56 in shambles.
14:45:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I said that earlier.
14:46:00 Past is the past.
14:46:01 I have to look to the future.
14:46:02 And that's how I feel.
14:46:05 I'm not apologizing.
14:46:07 That's just how I feel.
14:46:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If you want to amend, how much time do
14:46:15 you need?
14:46:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: New survey.
14:46:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A week?
14:46:21 >>> Let me find out just to make sure.
14:46:23 >>> We went through a fair amount of effort to get
14:46:50 this thing resurveyed and so on, and quite a number of
14:46:53 expenses.
14:46:53 Are you requesting that we would have to redo all the
14:46:55 paperwork?
14:46:57 I was just trying to understand.

14:46:58 What is necessary?
14:47:01 >>CATHERINE COYLE: If you go to the overhead.
14:47:03 Catherine Coyle, land development. This is the survey
14:47:05 of the building.
14:47:06 The wet zone survey that describes it.
14:47:09 The issue right now is everything in blue is what the
14:47:11 request was.
14:47:12 What the surveyor is going to have to go back and do
14:47:14 is carve out the actual portion that is the restaurant
14:47:18 and the sports bar and that legal description is what
14:47:20 will have to substitute in the ordinance to the city
14:47:22 clerk.
14:47:23 And that's what council will take under consideration.
14:47:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So it's basically a line.
14:47:29 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Wherever that line S.i don't know
14:47:31 the formation of the wall.
14:47:36 It's not as easy as just drawing a line.
14:47:39 >>GWEN MILLER: What you are saying he would have to go
14:47:41 into the hotel from the restaurant.
14:47:42 We have to close that door.
14:47:43 >>> He doesn't have to close it.
14:47:45 Alcohol can't go beyond that door.

14:47:49 It has to stay within the confines of that restaurant
14:47:51 and sports bar.
14:47:54 And just to clarify for hotel use.
14:47:56 There's no sales of alcohol in any of those rooms.
14:47:59 No refrigerators with a mini barring, nothing like
14:48:04 that.
14:48:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How much time do you need, sir?
14:48:07 Two weeks?
14:48:08 Three weeks?
14:48:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, you have a meeting on
14:48:13 September 4th and a meeting on September 18th.
14:48:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: September 4th, can you get your
14:48:20 architect to redraw that?
14:48:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Or September 18th.
14:48:26 >>> September 4th.
14:48:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to continue to September
14:48:30 4th.
14:48:30 >> Second.
14:48:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: At 1:30 p.m.?
14:48:36 >> Yes.
14:48:36 It's been moved and seconded.
14:48:38 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

14:48:41 Opposes?
14:48:41 Okay.
14:48:50 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: You have to amend your plan.
14:48:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:49:00 Item 96.
14:49:32 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:49:34 V 08-46.
14:49:35 The request for a 2(COP-R) beer and wine sale in
14:49:40 conjunction with a restaurant.
14:49:42 Way want to say up front, just so you know, on this
14:49:44 particular case, as in the previous case, the new
14:49:48 regulations require that the petitioners come in and
14:49:51 show compliance with the current parking standards.
14:49:54 In this particular case the staff report was written
14:49:56 from the site plan dated July 8th, 2008, which is
14:50:00 the one that you have in your hands.
14:50:02 As of yesterday, I just noticed in the file at
14:50:05 3:37 p.m. on August 20th there was a new site plan
14:50:08 submitted which I'm presuming addresses the parking
14:50:12 issue.
14:50:13 But you will notice on the staff report, waiver number
14:50:15 1, section 27-242, reducing the required number of

14:50:20 parking spaces from -- and it says "unknown."
14:50:22 On the site plan that was submitted and that was
14:50:25 reviewed for the staff report, the parking calculation
14:50:28 was based on the old code, not the new code.
14:50:32 For a restaurant use it's based on occupancy of the
14:50:35 building.
14:50:35 They had it based on seats.
14:50:38 Which we weren't able to determine at that point
14:50:39 whether or not there was a parking reduction that was
14:50:42 needed from council.
14:50:43 So just to prepare you for this one you can certainly
14:50:47 hear it.
14:50:48 We haven't had a chance to evaluate the new site plan
14:50:50 as of yet.
14:50:51 The ordinance that's on file is not complete.
14:50:53 So you can certainly hear this during the first public
14:50:56 hearing, and if you so choose to approve this, or wish
14:50:59 to approve it, we would actually have to continue this
14:51:02 a week for the ordinance to be drafted and for us to
14:51:05 evaluate the site plan to give you the final opinion
14:51:08 on it.
14:51:08 But I'll go through it really quickly if you would

14:51:11 like.
14:51:12 The request is for a 2(COP-R) beer and wine, location
14:51:16 3644 West Kennedy Boulevard, in conjunction with a
14:51:18 restaurant use.
14:51:19 The building existing contains approximately 3,000
14:51:23 square feet.
14:51:24 I note the current parking ratio of a quarter of a
14:51:27 space per person based on the life safety code.
14:51:30 There are 19 spaces on-site, and that is for both
14:51:34 uses.
14:51:42 There are two buildings, 3642, 3644 is this location,
14:51:47 and there are 19 shared parking spaces, and then there
14:51:51 are dumpsters on the side facing and accessing
14:51:55 Sterling.
14:51:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ms. Coyle, let me raise the question
14:51:59 with my colleagues.
14:52:00 Am I to understand if we go through this hearing today
14:52:02 we can't even take a vote?
14:52:05 >>> That's correct.
14:52:05 You would have to continue to the next week.
14:52:08 >> Why are we going through this?
14:52:10 >>> That is why I prefaced it.

14:52:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There are folks here?
14:52:15 Or just the petitioner?
14:52:20 Mr. Chairman, see if there's other people here.
14:52:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is anyone else here from the public to
14:52:24 address this petition?
14:52:25 Anyone else here?
14:52:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Why don't we continue it then for
14:52:29 two weeks?
14:52:31 >>STEVE MICHELINI: The only difficulty we have is they
14:52:32 are trying to get open for a holiday. This is an
14:52:35 ethnic restaurant, an Ethiopian restaurant.
14:52:38 And there is a major holiday that occurs on the
14:52:46 9th of September.
14:52:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name, please.
14:52:50 >>> My name is Azeb Bezabeh, from Ethiopia.
14:52:59 We have a new year which will be September 12th,
14:53:01 right on the holiday.
14:53:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me ask staff.
14:53:05 I mean, you are telling us we can't take a vote today.
14:53:09 So this won't even be first reading.
14:53:11 Is that right?
14:53:13 >>> That's correct.

14:53:13 The ordinance has not been prepared.
14:53:15 Site plan came in yesterday at 3:37.
14:53:17 I haven't had a chance to look at it.
14:53:20 You could continue it one week.
14:53:21 I don't know if that would give enough time for a
14:53:23 second reading.
14:53:24 I think the second reading would be September
14:53:26 11th, I believe.
14:53:28 But I'll let the clerk clarify.
14:53:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the second reading will be
14:53:32 September 11th?
14:53:33 >> The holiday is the 12th?
14:53:35 That will work.
14:53:35 >>GWEN MILLER: That will work.
14:53:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to continue for one week.
14:53:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You don't have a meeting next week.
14:53:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We have a morning meeting, don't
14:53:46 we?
14:53:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, you have a workshop.
14:53:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We could do it the 4th.
14:53:51 >> The second reading would be the 18th.
14:53:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Do it in the workshop.

14:53:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move that we schedule this at the
14:54:01 end of our workshop.
14:54:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The only problem, we have to keep in
14:54:05 mind, we won't have a quorum for that workshop.
14:54:08 There will only be four people here.
14:54:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to get my bearings straight.
14:54:22 This became a donut shop?
14:54:25 >> It was the java joint.
14:54:27 It was a coffee restaurant shop.
14:54:28 They already have their construction permits.
14:54:30 And one of the confusing issues that we are entering
14:54:35 into now going with a special use is that they have
14:54:37 already been approved by the construction services
14:54:39 center, but not reviewed and approved by the zoning
14:54:44 and development office.
14:54:46 And we wouldn't have that issue.
14:54:48 It's going to pop up a lot, where you have
14:54:52 differing -- different processes that we are going
14:54:55 through.
14:54:57 I mean, if somebody could perhaps revise our
14:55:00 ordinance.
14:55:02 I know the staff hasn't had a chance to look at it.

14:55:04 But we only got the comment fairly recently on the
14:55:07 report.
14:55:08 And the surveyor took their time.
14:55:11 They responded very late in the process.
14:55:14 I'm not blaming the city staff for this.
14:55:17 But we are in an area where we are entering into
14:55:21 differing codes.
14:55:22 They already have their construction permits and they
14:55:24 are way under way.
14:55:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But the problem, though, Mr. Michelini
14:55:28 is this.
14:55:29 Staff brought forward a petition, and it is my
14:55:31 understanding more than one that's not ready to go.
14:55:34 I have a problem with that.
14:55:35 Because we sit here, we have all these petitions, we
14:55:39 are going to spend 20 minutes or more on this and it
14:55:42 don't mean anything.
14:55:42 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Mr. Chairman, I'm not debating that
14:55:45 issue.
14:55:46 I'm just saying what can we do to accommodate them so
14:55:48 that they can get open by the 12th?
14:55:53 >>GWEN MILLER: We made a motion to do it next week.

14:55:56 >> The motion, Mr. Chairman, to set this -- --
14:56:05 >> She can't go down to the corner and buy the stuff.
14:56:08 It has to come from a distributer.
14:56:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the best we can do then is take
14:56:18 it up on the 28th, and you have two workshops that
14:56:23 morning.
14:56:24 >>GWEN MILLER: After the workshop.
14:56:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: After the workshop.
14:56:27 11:00.
14:56:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You have a workshop at 11:00.
14:56:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So make it 11 and see where it
14:56:35 goes.
14:56:36 >>CATHERINE COYLE: There's going to be a lot of
14:56:38 people.
14:56:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 10:50.
14:56:44 >>CATHERINE COYLE: It's the T bar ranch.
14:56:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me speak.
14:56:49 You have a workshop.
14:56:52 The transportation workshop supposedly will last two
14:56:54 hours.
14:56:55 We really scheduled for three hours.
14:56:57 We cut to the accommodate the 11:00 workshop.

14:56:59 Okay.
14:57:00 It's going to be four people.
14:57:01 I have a plane out.
14:57:03 I have a plane out about 12:30.
14:57:07 So I'm just letting you know that I'm not going to
14:57:11 miss my flight, okay?
14:57:12 And you all are going to have four people here that
14:57:15 morning.
14:57:16 I'm flying back in for that workshop.
14:57:20 I just want to be clear.
14:57:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm really glad you are going to be
14:57:27 here and I would like to accommodate these people.
14:57:29 I don't think this is going to be complicated.
14:57:31 I would like to move we bring this up at 9:01, that we
14:57:35 ask whoever is in charge of the prayer make it a short
14:57:37 prayer.
14:57:38 We'll be done by 9:05.
14:57:42 I move that we hear this next week.
14:57:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We don't want to do that.
14:57:49 I understand the intent is to, Mr. Chairman, to take
14:57:52 this up as soon as we do the prayer and the pledge of
14:57:54 allegiance, and do that.

14:57:56 I understand that, and I concur with that.
14:58:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me raise a question with staff,
14:58:02 will we have everything ready for that on next week,
14:58:04 the 28th?
14:58:06 >>> By then I believe we should be able to.
14:58:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:58:10 Now, yes.
14:58:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, my recommendation would be
14:58:13 to make this 9:00 and make the motion that it appear
14:58:17 first on the agenda after the invocation.
14:58:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But I want to speak to this.
14:58:23 I want to understand that that means if this petition
14:58:27 goes a length of time, that pushes everything back,
14:58:31 and you may lose a quorum in the last workshop.
14:58:35 I want to point that out.
14:58:37 That's the motion on the floor.
14:58:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, also since there was
14:58:41 no meeting scheduled for that evening, I might be
14:58:42 leaving for Auburn, Indiana.
14:58:46 There's an electric car for sale there.
14:58:49 There's a motion all in favor.
14:58:53 Opposes?

14:58:53 Okay.
14:58:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What's the other case?
14:59:01 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I was going to bring that up
14:59:02 actually.
14:59:03 Item 101 and 102 both have a similar parking issue.
14:59:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 101 and 102 are similar?
14:59:18 101 and 102.
14:59:20 Both of those are not ready?
14:59:23 >>CATHERINE COYLE: 101 had a similar parking
14:59:26 calculation based on the seats so we were unable to
14:59:29 determine the parking calculation, and 102 as well.
14:59:36 We have no revised site plans.
14:59:40 It is what it is.
14:59:40 It's just the ordinance wasn't prepared.
14:59:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we need to continue both of these
14:59:43 items then?
14:59:44 >>CATHERINE COYLE: We can hear from petitioner.
14:59:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, we are going to hear but the
14:59:51 point is --
14:59:52 >>> The ordinance is not ready.
14:59:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We don't have everything we need.
14:59:55 So in essence, to hear the petition today is

14:59:59 fruitless.
15:00:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Except you have some community
15:00:03 people that are hear for those.
15:00:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But again if you go through the whole
15:00:06 process, you still are starting all over again when it
15:00:08 comes back.
15:00:09 I just want everybody to understand that.
15:00:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You can close the public hearing
15:00:12 for purposes --
15:00:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open item 101 and 102.
15:00:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: They are already open.
15:00:18 Let me hear from legal counsel on this again.
15:00:22 Legal?
15:00:22 >>> What is your question, Mr. Chair?
15:00:29 >> The question is, if we go through the process
15:00:30 today, in essence, first reading does not begin until
15:00:37 I guess our next meeting, is that right?
15:00:40 >>> Yes, if you heard the entire hearing today, then
15:00:44 would you need to continue it over to another date to
15:00:46 allow for first reading or for denial of it.
15:00:49 At this point, what my understanding is, is that on
15:00:52 these two cases, it's a little different from the one

15:00:56 you just had where you had a revised site plan.
15:00:58 We still don't know what parking waivers they need.
15:01:00 They still have not submitted that information so they
15:01:03 will to submit that information.
15:01:07 Could have a public hearing on everything else but
15:01:09 would still have to allow additional public comment on
15:01:11 the parking issue because we don't know what waiver
15:01:14 they are requesting and the applicant will be required
15:01:15 to submit that information.
15:01:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Rebecca, consistent with what you
15:01:21 just said, you closed the public hearing except for
15:01:25 the limited purposes next week of the parking issue.
15:01:29 So when petitioner, staff, anybody in the public
15:01:33 speaks, we could limit it just to the parking issue so
15:01:36 it not reopening everything.
15:01:39 Well.
15:01:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I'm sorry.
15:01:42 But the issue is, we are having three public hearings
15:01:44 versus two public hearings.
15:01:45 Is that right?
15:01:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We do that sometimes.
15:01:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I just want to bring to your

15:01:53 attention, Mrs. Marshall came in and this is relative
15:01:57 to the last case that was continued and may have to be
15:01:59 brought back for discussion.
15:02:02 This is item number 96, I believe it was.
15:02:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 96?
15:02:08 Okay.
15:02:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's been brought to my attention
15:02:12 that council will not be meeting till the end of
15:02:14 September 11th.
15:02:16 The CRA meets at 9 a.m
15:02:20 Which means that if council passes this on September
15:02:23 11th at second reading, item 96, it will not go to
15:02:27 the mayor for her signature until the 12th.
15:02:31 So, therefore, if council wishes to continue this at
15:02:35 any of these for second reading on September 11th,
15:02:38 it will require council setting a special called
15:02:41 meeting which would have to be the notice opposing,
15:02:45 the clerk would have to cover that in a second
15:02:47 meeting.
15:02:47 I just want to -- Ms. Marshall came in to inform me of
15:02:50 that.
15:02:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Can we recess CRA and do that and go

15:02:55 back to CRA?
15:02:57 >> Well, let me just say, what we are doing here now
15:02:59 we are beginning to make a whole lot of adjustments,
15:03:02 and I'm going to tell you, once you start doing this,
15:03:06 everybody else is going to want the same -- I'm
15:03:08 telling you.
15:03:09 You open up a whole new issue here.
15:03:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, now I'm agreeing with
15:03:16 you.
15:03:17 Let me say this.
15:03:19 And I hope this ain't taken out of context.
15:03:22 I cannot gauge anything that's on the agenda based on
15:03:26 religion or origin or sexuality or race or holiday or
15:03:31 whatever.
15:03:32 It's come -- it's come to these agendas on the time
15:03:35 that you apply.
15:03:37 I can't help it if you applied at that time.
15:03:39 You should have applied maybe 30 days before.
15:03:42 But maybe you didn't buy the building or the operation
15:03:44 or the lease 30 days before.
15:03:46 And I agree, what we are doing here is setting a
15:03:49 precedent for this chamber, and good people that are

15:03:53 here listening to this, coming back and say, well, you
15:03:55 did it in August the 21st of '08, why aren't you
15:04:00 doing it to me?
15:04:00 I don't want a disclaimer against no one.
15:04:02 So what I'm saying is I have compassion, I understand
15:04:05 what's going on.
15:04:06 But at the other side you have to look at the flip
15:04:09 side for early action.
15:04:10 There's a reaction.
15:04:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's right.
15:04:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And we are here without no action
15:04:14 because we are getting it from both sides.
15:04:16 So I am not opposed to that.
15:04:18 In fact tomorrow we are going to get it from both
15:04:20 sides.
15:04:21 But what I'm saying is that these things have to be
15:04:24 according to what we have in line.
15:04:26 I would try to work this thing out the best we can,
15:04:30 with the abilities we have to serve the public.
15:04:34 But in the meantime, you have had the public hearing
15:04:37 waiting on something that's on the agenda that's not
15:04:39 ready to go and still being held hostage to some

15:04:42 degree.
15:04:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And my concern is in the future how
15:04:48 can we staff, Ms. Coyle, how can we make sure this
15:04:54 don't happen in the future that these items are going
15:04:56 to come to council if they are not ready?
15:04:59 >>CATHERINE COYLE: This is the first cycle where we
15:05:00 have had a full batch of them and frankly it was a
15:05:04 glitch in the system because under the rezoning
15:05:05 process -- and this actually occurred when you changed
15:05:07 the regulations.
15:05:08 Under the rezoning process between 90 and 105 days to
15:05:12 get a rezoning through, about three months.
15:05:14 When the motion was made to change the regulations for
15:05:16 alcohol permits, you restricted us between eight and
15:05:20 nine weeks so we cut a month to five weeks out of the
15:05:22 process to keep it similar to the wet zoning process.
15:05:27 It very much shortens the time frame between the
15:05:29 development review committee meeting and the time that
15:05:32 they resubmit the site plan.
15:05:33 DRC meetings for these cases were about three weeks
15:05:36 ago when we gave the comments, three to four weeks ago
15:05:38 when we gave the comment to the petitioner on these

15:05:42 two cases we just didn't get responses.
15:05:44 Now granted they shouldn't have come forward.
15:05:46 We in the process since it's shortened right after
15:05:49 development review committee meeting we scheduled them
15:05:51 for hearing.
15:05:52 Under the rezoning process, we wait till we get a
15:05:54 revised site plan because we know that they have met
15:05:56 the requirement.
15:05:57 This process is just very, very short.
15:05:59 And it's hard for to us check.
15:06:01 But I think we are going to be able to fit it in the
15:06:04 next cycle. This is the first big cycle.
15:06:07 >> So we won't have these in the future coming like
15:06:09 this?
15:06:09 I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that
15:06:11 doesn't happen, yes, because it does make it
15:06:13 confusing.
15:06:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It puts us in an awkward situation,
15:06:17 too.
15:06:17 >>> The difference between the two, I would say, is
15:06:19 that the lady, the Ethiopian restaurant, petitioner,
15:06:22 did submit a revised site plan, and that certainly in

15:06:26 a week or so I think we can provide the ordinance and
15:06:29 get it done.
15:06:29 These other two, there is no revised site plan so we
15:06:32 don't even have anything to evaluate for just to
15:06:34 continue it for a week, I don't know that we would
15:06:36 still have the time to do that.
15:06:37 So I would say a week wouldn't be enough and I would
15:06:39 hate for you to rearrange for whole schedule for that.
15:06:42 >> Let's hear from petitioner.
15:06:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Which item are we talking about, 96?
15:06:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
15:06:49 I'm going to leave 96 alone.
15:06:51 It's gone.
15:06:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The question of 96, I just want to be
15:06:55 absolutely clear, council, that it will not be signed
15:07:00 by the mayor, because there is no City Council meeting
15:07:02 until 6 p.m. that night.
15:07:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the issue was, I think council
15:07:07 said bring it to the CRA meeting, but --
15:07:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And that cannot be legally done.
15:07:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Recess?
15:07:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Cannot be legally done unless you

15:07:16 today by motion set a special called meeting for that
15:07:19 one particular case, which will then require to be
15:07:24 adjourned, the clerk come in, do the switches as you
15:07:26 did today.
15:07:27 >>GWEN MILLER: I will do the motion.
15:07:28 I make the motion.
15:07:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
15:07:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: For what time on the 11th for a
15:07:34 special called Tampa City Council meeting?
15:07:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 11:30?
15:07:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What tame does CRA -- set it for 11
15:07:47 then.
15:07:47 >>GWEN MILLER: At 9:00.
15:07:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 11:00 is fine.
15:07:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 11:00.
15:07:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:07:54 There is a motion that we set the item 96 for a
15:07:58 special hearing for council at 11 a.m. on what's that
15:08:02 date?
15:08:03 What day is that?
15:08:04 On the 11th?
15:08:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Assuming that the does pass on first

15:08:08 reading when it comes back to you.
15:08:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
15:08:12 Opposes?
15:08:13 Nay.
15:08:14 I vote no.
15:08:14 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott voting no.
15:08:19 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Specifically items 101 and 102 are
15:08:22 the cases I don't have a revised site plan.
15:08:25 I don't know if you would have to continue it that
15:08:28 short a time.
15:08:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me go back to 96.
15:08:31 So 96, for our next Thursday morning, and then again
15:08:36 on the 11th, right?
15:08:38 In the morning.
15:08:39 And at that point it's up to the mayor whether she
15:08:41 signs it or not, right?
15:08:43 Okay.
15:08:44 On 101 and 102 we need to hear from petitioner.
15:08:53 Petitioner, 101.
15:08:57 >>> Joseph Diaz, 2522 West Kennedy Boulevard.
15:09:01 Very briefly, when this petition was first filed, I
15:09:03 didn't file this petition.

15:09:05 This petition then went to staff, to have a meeting
15:09:08 back on July 3rd, and my understanding that
15:09:10 everything had been approved.
15:09:12 At 6 p.m. on Monday night, I have an e-mail sent to
15:09:15 me, the staff report and advised me of the problems
15:09:24 that were existing with the data table on the site
15:09:25 plan.
15:09:27 Have been was closed on toss.
15:09:28 At 8:30 yesterday morning I faxed the staff report to
15:09:31 the surveyor at Phoenix surveying and told them, look,
15:09:35 I'm being told now that there are problems with the
15:09:39 site plan, pleas get ahold of staff and work it out
15:09:42 and see what needs to happen.
15:09:44 My understanding is, I then spoke within the surveyor,
15:09:48 tells me you put a call into Catherine Coyle.
15:09:50 I don't know if they spoke.
15:09:52 Unfortunately, I didn't know about this problem until
15:09:55 after 6:00 on Monday night.
15:09:57 My office was closed on Tuesday.
15:09:59 And I couldn't remedy the situation.
15:10:02 So I understand this particular site was a previous
15:10:06 restaurant, has a parking capacity of 180 spaces.

15:10:12 As submitted even though it's under the old occupancy,
15:10:14 the required space is something like 111, 112, I
15:10:19 believe.
15:10:19 But under the lifeline code that computation hasn't
15:10:22 been made.
15:10:24 And I don't know if Kathryn got a call or spoke to
15:10:27 somebody from Phoenix yesterday.
15:10:28 I don't know about that.
15:10:30 But I wasn't aware of this problem until Tuesday.
15:10:36 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:10:37 If we are going to get into the merits of the case, do
15:10:39 you wants me to address those items?
15:10:41 >> No.
15:10:41 Way want to see is what the council wants to do.
15:10:43 Do you want to hear the petition and then come back
15:10:45 and hear it two other times?
15:10:47 That's the issue.
15:10:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, legally, if we get a
15:10:54 legal response and it's taken in chronological order,
15:10:58 and we are really on 97.
15:11:00 But on 101, 102, if legally they tell me we can hear
15:11:05 it, close it, render in a decision based upon the fact

15:11:08 that it's not all in, that's what I hear, I don't
15:11:11 really know, then I am not opposed to hearing it.
15:11:13 I would imagine some good people are here today.
15:11:16 I don't want to make them come back.
15:11:18 Maybe they can send a representative back to listen to
15:11:21 what the outcome is.
15:11:22 But certainly in today's society there's $200 in
15:11:28 gasoline rate here I'm looking at.
15:11:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:11:30 All right.
15:11:31 Then we have to come back.
15:11:32 Okay.
15:11:33 102.
15:11:34 We are taking these in terms of the continuance.
15:11:40 >>STEVE MICHELINI: 102 can be moved to your normal
15:11:45 meeting date.
15:11:46 And I think you have got September the 4th.
15:11:55 10 a.m.
15:11:55 Then we'll get the revised materials to you.
15:11:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: September the 4th?
15:12:01 >> Yes, sir.
15:12:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Continue to --

15:12:03 Let me hear from the public.
15:12:04 Anyone here to address item 102?
15:12:07 Anyone here -- need to address 102?
15:12:10 Do you have a problem with the continuance?
15:12:12 We are on item 102.
15:12:13 We are going to continue this item.
15:12:16 >>STEVE MICHELINI: It's an existing restaurant.
15:12:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:12:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to continue 102 to September
15:12:21 4th at 9:30.
15:12:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
15:12:25 Seconded by --
15:12:26 >>GWEN MILLER: 9:30.
15:12:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 9:30 tough second reading.
15:12:30 Did you want it 9:30 or 10:00?
15:12:33 >>THE CLERK: The first motion was at 10 a.m.
15:12:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The first motion was 10 a.m.?
15:12:38 >> 10 a.m. is fine.
15:12:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by Councilwoman
15:12:43 Saul-Sena.
15:12:43 (Motion carried).
15:12:44 Okay.

15:12:47 We are back now to item 97.
15:12:51 >> I thought you said you didn't object to that.
15:12:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, we are at the end of 101.
15:13:00 I said what are we going to do with 101?
15:13:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, you will not be able to
15:13:05 close the public hearing, if I understood correctly.
15:13:09 You will not be able to close the public hearing.
15:13:11 It will have to be continued.
15:13:12 And then pending on the issues that are remaining, it
15:13:15 would have to be heard an additional tame on first
15:13:20 reading.
15:13:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
15:13:21 The parking issue.
15:13:24 97?
15:13:24 Okay.
15:13:25 Item 97.
15:13:42 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I'm hoping this will be fairly
15:13:45 straightforward.
15:13:46 They are requesting a 2(APS), package sales for beer
15:13:48 and wine in conjunction with a pharmacy retail store,
15:13:54 CVS, there are 69 parking spaces available.
15:13:57 Only 39 are required by code.

15:13:59 You will note on page 2 of the staff report, four
15:14:02 alcohol establishments within 1,000 feet.
15:14:04 They are a restaurant and one 7-Eleven adjacent to the
15:14:08 site.
15:14:09 Tampa Palms condos are also within a thousand feet.
15:14:11 No institutional uses.
15:14:13 You will note pages 4, 5 and 6 the special use
15:14:16 criteria. Staff had no objections to the request.
15:14:20 I'll show you the intersection of Bruce B. Downs and
15:14:23 commerce palms drive.
15:14:25 This is the point of Tampa Palms complex where there's
15:14:27 a red lobster and Olive Garden to the north.
15:14:30 Thank you.
15:14:34 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
15:14:37 department.
15:14:37 I have been sworn.
15:14:38 Police department has in a objection to this wet
15:14:39 zoning.
15:14:43 >>> Grace Yang, 201 North Franklin Street, Tampa.
15:14:48 I have been sworn.
15:14:49 Here on behalf of the CVS store.
15:14:52 Again the request is for 2(APS) package bare and wine.

15:14:56 Here to answer any questions.
15:14:57 I'm not aware of any opposition.
15:14:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
15:14:59 Anyone here in opposition to this petition?
15:15:01 Anyone in opposition?
15:15:02 Anyone in support of this petition?
15:15:05 Okay.
15:15:06 >> Move to close.
15:15:07 >> Second.
15:15:08 (Motion carried).
15:15:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like to move an ordinance
15:15:17 approving a special use permit for alcohol beverage
15:15:21 sales, large venue making the sale of beverages
15:15:26 alcohol by more than 1% by weight not more than 14% by
15:15:29 weight wines regardless of alcoholic content beer and
15:15:32 wine in sealed containers for consumption off premises
15:15:34 only at or from that certain lot, plot or tract of
15:15:37 land located at 6206 commerce palms drive, Tampa,
15:15:41 Florida, more particularly described in section 2
15:15:44 hereof, approving waivers as set forth herein waiving
15:15:48 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
15:15:50 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in

15:15:52 conflict, providing an effective date.
15:15:57 >> Second.
15:15:58 >> Moved and seconded.
15:15:59 (Motion carried).
15:16:02 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern and
15:16:04 Dingfelder being absent at vote.
15:16:06 Second reading of the ordinance will be held September
15:16:09 the 3rd at 9:30 a.m.
15:16:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:16:15 98.
15:16:17 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:16:19 Case V 08-48 located at 4010 and 4100 Boy Scout
15:16:25 Boulevard, 4(COP-R) on premises in conjunction with
15:16:30 restaurant uses.
15:16:31 This is the MetLife site, went through rezoning
15:16:36 recently.
15:16:36 Here's the aerial on the overhead.
15:16:40 Just to remind you, this portion they are asking for
15:16:43 the alcohol sales is the front of four locations on
15:16:46 your site plan located in wet zone A, B, C and D, for
15:16:50 the retail and restaurant uses.
15:16:53 There are three waivers associated with the request

15:16:56 noted on page 2, 4 other alcohol establishments within
15:17:00 a thousand feet.
15:17:01 One residential property within a thousand feet.
15:17:03 And the institutional use is actually the City of
15:17:05 Tampa property which is 410 feet away.
15:17:08 General standards and criteria on page 3, 4, 5 and 6
15:17:12 for your consideration, I will note on page 7, way
15:17:15 would like stated on the record, which we can have the
15:17:18 petitioner correct between first and second reading is
15:17:21 that under a large venue request for alcohol sales, if
15:17:25 there is no full kitchen in a restaurant use, they do
15:17:28 have to state the business hours of operation.
15:17:30 The petitioner has advised us verbally that there are
15:17:34 full kitchens in all of the units.
15:17:36 So either they need to place the hours of operation on
15:17:38 the plan, or state on the plan that there are full
15:17:41 kitchens.
15:17:42 Either way they can put on the record and we can
15:17:44 certify the site plan between first and second reading
15:17:47 there. Were no objections verified.
15:17:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer Miller?
15:17:51 >>> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police department.

15:17:55 City of Tampa police department has no objections to
15:17:57 the wet zone.
15:17:58 There is some known objection from the Carver City
15:18:01 neighborhood association, and they may be here to put
15:18:07 in their comments.
15:18:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
15:18:12 State your name and address for the record.
15:18:13 >> Sue fur my, 501 west Euclid Avenue, Tampa.
15:18:20 We are here today as the Cathy pointed out.
15:18:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in opposition?
15:18:27 Anyone here in opposition of this petition?
15:18:30 >>CHAIRMAN: Move to close.
15:18:33 >>: Second.
15:18:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Wait, a quick question.
15:18:36 This looks beautiful.
15:18:37 Is there going to be a pedestrian access on your site,
15:18:39 because you are going to have office buildings, you
15:18:41 have the restaurant.
15:18:42 >>> It's all interconnected.
15:18:45 You can walk from the hotel to the restaurants to the
15:18:47 office buildings.
15:18:48 And for the record I do need to put on there that this

15:18:51 is a restaurant, licensed restaurant.
15:18:55 They will have full kitchens.
15:18:56 We will modify the site plan to so note they are so --
15:19:00 So all the items have been outlined by Ms. Doyle?
15:19:03 >>> And we agree to the staff report, yes.
15:19:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Now, anyone here in the gray area?
15:19:07 Anyone here don't know whether you support it or not?
15:19:10 Okay.
15:19:11 Motion to close?
15:19:17 >> Second.
15:19:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And a second.
15:19:19 (Motion carried)
15:19:21 Okay.
15:19:24 Councilman Caetano?
15:19:27 Read the ordinance, please.
15:19:30 Right here.
15:19:34 >> An ordinance approving a special use permit S-2 for
15:19:37 alcoholic beverage sales large venue and making lawful
15:19:40 the sale of beverage containing alcohol regardless of
15:19:43 alcoholic content beer, wine and liquor 4(COP-R) for
15:19:46 consumption on the premises only in connection with a
15:19:50 restaurant business establishment at or from the

15:19:53 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 4010 and
15:19:58 4100 Boy Scout Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, as more
15:20:02 particularly described in section 2 hereof, approving
15:20:05 waivers as set forth herein, wavering certain
15:20:07 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
15:20:10 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
15:20:13 conflict, providing an effective date.
15:20:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I do hear a second?
15:20:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
15:20:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
15:20:20 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
15:20:22 Opposes?
15:20:24 Okay.
15:20:25 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern and
15:20:28 Dingfelder being absent at vote.
15:20:29 Second reading of the ordinance will be held September
15:20:32 4th at 9:30 a.m.
15:20:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I want to recognize the mayor from
15:20:38 Temple Terrace.
15:20:41 Mayor, good to see you today from Temple Terrace.
15:20:50 Joe Affronti.
15:20:51 All right.

15:20:52 Okay.
15:20:57 >>CATHERINE COYLE: On the previous petition on Boy
15:20:58 Scout Boulevard the petitioner was able to get this
15:21:00 into the file.
15:21:02 Could we receive and file for that?
15:21:04 >> Yes.
15:21:04 Motion to receive and file.
15:21:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
15:21:07 >> Second.
15:21:07 (Motion carried)
15:21:11 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:21:12 Petition V 08-61, 5149 Adamo Drive.
15:21:18 I did decide the site plan I gave you there is a suit
15:21:21 page 6 of the staff report.
15:21:22 There was a typo.
15:21:23 You can see that there were no objections to this
15:21:25 particular request.
15:21:28 This is a request for a 2(APS) package sales beer and
15:21:31 wine only in conjunction with retail goods store and
15:21:34 gasoline sales.
15:21:35 The site is located like I said at 5149 east Adamo,
15:21:41 zoned CI and IH industrial heavy.

15:21:46 Area is comprised of 313 square feet, 18 total parking
15:21:49 spaces on-site, only 14 required by code.
15:21:51 You will note there is a Circle K store, and alcoholic
15:21:55 beverage store within a thousand feet, no residential
15:21:57 or institutional within a thousand feet.
15:21:59 And as in previous reports, pages 2 through 5 of the
15:22:02 special use.
15:22:05 This is the corner of 50th and southeast corner of
15:22:07 50th and Adamo.
15:22:10 Just north of the Crosstown.
15:22:12 There were no objections from staff.
15:22:17 >>> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police department.
15:22:19 There are in a objections from the City of Tampa
15:22:21 police department.
15:22:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
15:22:22 >>> Rebecca Johns.
15:22:28 I have been sworn.
15:22:29 201 North Franklin Street, suite 2000, representing
15:22:34 petitioner Hess mart, a typical Hess gas station.
15:22:37 If you have any questions.
15:22:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in the public wish to
15:22:40 address council on this item, in opposition?

15:22:43 Anyone here in opposition?
15:22:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
15:22:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
15:22:47 (Motion carried).
15:22:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:22:53 Councilman Miranda.
15:22:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
15:23:02 Change the format, I see.
15:23:06 Move an ordinance allowing a special use S-2 for
15:23:09 alcoholic beverage sales, small venue making lawful
15:23:13 change alcohol more than 1%, 14% by weight of wines
15:23:17 regardless of alcoholic content beer and wine 2(APS)
15:23:20 in sealed containers only at or from that certain plot
15:23:24 or plot of land, as more particularly described in
15:23:28 section 2 hereof approving waivers set forth herein
15:23:32 waiving certain restrictions as to distance providing
15:23:34 for repeal of all ordinances in conflict providing an
15:23:36 effective date.
15:23:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
15:23:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
15:23:42 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern and
15:23:49 Dingfelder being absent at vote.

15:23:50 Second reading of the ordinance will be held September
15:23:53 4th another 9:30 a.m.
15:23:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: For the record, councilman John
15:23:59 Dingfelder had to leave to go home.
15:24:01 He's ill, not feeling well.
15:24:03 For the record he will not be here the rest of the
15:24:05 afternoon.
15:24:05 Thank you.
15:24:08 Petition 100.
15:24:09 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:24:20 I have been sworn.
15:24:23 V 08-67.
15:24:25 5109 east Fowler Avenue.
15:24:27 First being to allow maneuvering within the
15:24:29 right-of-way of commercial vehicles.
15:24:31 The second three are the distance separations.
15:24:37 Page 6 of the staff report sites there are three
15:24:40 alcoholic establishments within a thousand feet.
15:24:42 One residential property.
15:24:43 And two institutional uses within a thousand feet.
15:24:47 There are 25 -- 24 parking spaces provided on-site.
15:24:51 Only 23 are required.

15:24:53 The alcohol establishments, there is approximately
15:24:57 3,808 square feet.
15:24:59 Building does reach 28 feet in height.
15:25:01 Transportation did find it consistent on page 2 of the
15:25:04 staff report, but the maneuvering for these vehicles
15:25:09 is required on-site, on private property.
15:25:12 There are three parking spaces on-site located to the
15:25:14 west that do not meet the current standard.
15:25:17 Also, the table labeled original parking credit needs
15:25:22 to be removed from the site plan, and number 2 needs
15:25:24 to be removed.
15:25:25 There are no waivers permitted to the transportation
15:25:28 technical manual so it's just some clarification on
15:25:30 the site plan.
15:25:31 Solid waste did find it inconsistent.
15:25:33 There are some notes that needed to be added to the
15:25:35 site plan.
15:25:37 Just for reference, I included them in the staff
15:25:41 report.
15:25:42 They did send us diagrams as to where the dumpster
15:25:45 needed to be moved to.
15:25:47 You will note that attachment 1 shows the current

15:25:50 location, and they did show the truck maneuvering into
15:25:54 each location, and what happened, it does encroach
15:25:57 into the area within the right-of-way with the curving
15:26:01 and the grass area.
15:26:02 What happens is that if they move to the this location
15:26:05 in that Spates -- and I noted earlier there are one
15:26:09 space additional, there's an extra space on-site. If
15:26:11 they move it into this location on page 4, it actually
15:26:17 meets -- solid waste just movement of the dumpster and
15:26:21 I believe some additional notes and waivers needed for
15:26:23 transportation.
15:26:24 Those are the inconsistencies found.
15:26:26 There is currently a wet zoning on-site as well for a
15:26:29 2(COP-R), and they are requesting a bump up to a 4.
15:26:33 This is for the square one.
15:26:39 It's a little dark, the picture.
15:26:42 If you have any questions.
15:26:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is called square one but they
15:26:49 are round burgers.
15:26:50 >> I have never been there.
15:26:52 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
15:26:54 department.

15:26:54 We have no objections to this wet zoning.
15:26:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
15:27:01 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I'm here on behalf of the
15:27:04 petitioners, Buchman Italiano partnership.
15:27:11 The issues have been waived by the manager of the
15:27:13 transportation department.
15:27:14 We provided them with a copy of that letter.
15:27:16 And a copy of the site plan that showed that those
15:27:19 maneuvering, all the technical standards including, I
15:27:22 have a that I can certainly provide to you as well.
15:27:25 And copy of the site plan where they signed it, and
15:27:28 approved the configuration of what you have on the
15:27:32 current site.
15:27:33 This project was recently permitted.
15:27:35 It was built.
15:27:36 It went through construction services.
15:27:38 And this is one of the issues that I spoke to you
15:27:40 about earlier where you have conflicts between the
15:27:43 staff reviewing these internally for wet zonings,
15:27:46 versus the construction services staff, which is
15:27:48 already permitted this project.
15:27:50 When to not want to move the dumpster.

15:27:52 It been approved, built and constructed in accordance
15:27:55 with the plans, and we have the waivers in place
15:27:58 already, so we don't think that that should be an
15:28:01 issue either.
15:28:02 And we are respectfully requesting your approval.
15:28:04 This project started off -- and I don't know if you
15:28:08 remember this or not.
15:28:11 This is what the building used to look like.
15:28:14 And this is the award that was given to the building
15:28:17 preservation award for retrofit and renovation.
15:28:23 It received an award for what they did with this
15:28:25 project.
15:28:28 It's a remarkable restoration project.
15:28:30 And I think that we should not be held to those
15:28:33 requests being that the staff is asking for.
15:28:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to hear from legal on that.
15:28:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Are they picking up the garbage
15:28:46 there now?
15:28:47 I don't know what's going on there.
15:28:49 >>> I gave them both.
15:28:56 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:28:56 The letter that I'm seeing, it not in the file.

15:28:59 You can certainly submit it.
15:29:01 All the changes that I referenced and the notes that
15:29:03 needed to be added and the dumpster being moved, some
15:29:07 can be made between first and second reading.
15:29:09 It's not that you couldn't move forward today.
15:29:10 If you want us to evaluate the letter that was written
15:29:13 and the plan that was approved you can certainly do
15:29:15 that.
15:29:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I just think based on what you said
15:29:19 based on what he said you need to come back to us and
15:29:21 make sure that issue is resolved.
15:29:23 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I would like to move forward.
15:29:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We will move forward.
15:29:27 That's not the issue.
15:29:28 The issue is between this reading and next reading,
15:29:30 staff needs to resolve the issue by the dumpster and
15:29:34 the other issues that you presented today.
15:29:36 >> I think how you could proceed is a motion based on
15:29:40 the conditions in the staff report being addressed on
15:29:42 the site plan.
15:29:43 Have the staff evaluate the letter and the site plan
15:29:45 that's previously approved.

15:29:46 And if that balances out, the request we have will
15:29:51 bring that back to you at second reading.
15:29:52 >> That's all right.
15:29:53 Anyone here from the public wish to address council on
15:29:55 this petition?
15:29:56 Anyone here from the public?
15:29:58 Are you in opposition?
15:30:00 Okay.
15:30:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
15:30:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
15:30:03 (Motion carried).
15:30:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move an ordinance a special use
15:30:09 permit making lawful the sale of beverages containing
15:30:12 alcohol regardless of alcoholic content bare wine
15:30:15 liquor 4(COP-R) for consumption on premises only in
15:30:17 connection with a restaurant business established at
15:30:20 or from that certain plot or plot of land located at
15:30:24 3701 Henderson Boulevard Tampa, Florida more
15:30:28 particularly described in section 2 hereof approving
15:30:30 waivers set forth wavering restrictions as to distance
15:30:33 based upon findings based on repeal, based on the
15:30:39 intelligence information I received here, we are going

15:30:41 to have this between first and second reading.
15:30:44 Am I correct?
15:30:47 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Yes, sir.
15:30:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to spell out the award
15:30:51 this building got was for turning a sows ear into a
15:30:56 silk purse and developer should be commended in doing
15:30:59 such a great job.
15:31:00 It's a real gift to the street and their burgers are
15:31:05 fabulous.
15:31:06 >> Second.
15:31:07 >> I made a motion on the burgers, not on the motion.
15:31:13 [ Laughter ]
15:31:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
15:31:18 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and
15:31:20 Mulhern being absent at vote.
15:31:23 Second reading of the ordinance will be held September
15:31:26 4th at 9:30 a.m.
15:31:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We are back on item 101.
15:31:31 And I'm sewage that we are hearing this petition with
15:31:35 the understanding that it's going to come back and
15:31:38 it's going to be limited to the parking issue.
15:31:41 Is that right?

15:31:41 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:31:47 The parking issue an exhibit D-1 noted in the staff
15:31:50 report needs to be corrected.
15:31:51 That's the reference to the survey that's called.
15:31:57 V 08-67 located 11607 north 52nd street.
15:32:02 They are requesting a 4(COP-R), consumption on
15:32:05 premises in conjunction with a restaurant beer wind an
15:32:08 liquor.
15:32:08 You will note as I have already stated that the
15:32:10 parking waiver is unknown at this time.
15:32:13 Which I'm sure can be resolved with the occupancy
15:32:15 calculation.
15:32:17 You will note on page 2 of the staff report that there
15:32:19 are six locations that sell alcohol, within a thousand
15:32:24 feet.
15:32:26 One listed residential within a thousand feet and two
15:32:29 institutional uses.
15:32:30 There are churches within a thousand feet.
15:32:34 The location contains 11,520 square feet of square
15:32:38 foot area, 1 0 spaces on-site.
15:32:42 And it does reference that there are 445 feet
15:32:45 currently within the location.

15:32:48 I did find it inconsistent based on page 2, the
15:32:52 information that's needed on this site plan.
15:32:56 And just to clarify what Mr. Diaz said, by no means am
15:33:02 I getting blamed for either of the petitioners.
15:33:06 He's correct, it originally came in under a different
15:33:09 agent, and then through the process they have changed
15:33:11 agents.
15:33:12 We did draft our comments July 18th and gave them
15:33:15 to that particular agent and they weren't forwarded on
15:33:17 so I think there was some kind of communication issue
15:33:19 on that side.
15:33:21 Just so you note, on page 7, the correction to the
15:33:28 tables that are needed, and exhibit D-1 needs to be
15:33:37 amended as well.
15:33:39 As I said before.
15:33:42 For those of you that are aware of this location, this
15:33:44 is at the southwest corner of Fowler and 52nd.
15:33:48 It's the old whistle stop junction.
15:33:51 Prayer to that I think it was Ryan's family buffet.
15:33:55 And adjacent to it is the public shopping center that
15:34:00 faces 56th street, and then you have got -- at the
15:34:05 corner.

15:34:06 Our objections are based solely on the site plan at
15:34:08 this time, and corrections need to be made.
15:34:14 >>> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police department.
15:34:16 I have been sworn.
15:34:17 City of Tampa police department has in a objections to
15:34:18 this wet zone.
15:34:21 There had been a lot of concerns and a lot of phone
15:34:23 calls to myself directed to Tampa alcohol coalition
15:34:28 being in opposition heavily based on the type of
15:34:34 attraction this particular business may have with the
15:34:36 younger children at USF.
15:34:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
15:34:46 >>> Joseph Diaz, office at 2522 West Kennedy
15:34:56 Boulevard.
15:34:57 Mr. Chairman, let me put on the record before we get
15:34:59 started, I had a little bit of concern.
15:35:01 I know I am going to need four votes.
15:35:03 And --
15:35:05 >>GWEN MILLER: He's coming back.
15:35:06 Mr. Miranda is coming right back.
15:35:12 He's coming back.
15:35:16 >>> Well, wait a minute.

15:35:17 My understanding was, I thought you all were voting
15:35:19 today and the only issue was to come back and deal
15:35:23 with parking.
15:35:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, we are not voting today.
15:35:25 >> If you are going to close the hearing and just for
15:35:29 the purposes of just the parking and that's it?
15:35:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, whatever issue that may be
15:35:36 raised but the issue right now, the petition really is
15:35:39 not ready to go forward but we can hear the petition
15:35:42 based on what I have been told, and then we'll come
15:35:47 back and we can limit to the discussions based on what
15:35:51 our finding as we move forward today.
15:35:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, the hearing will not be
15:35:55 closed.
15:35:56 It will have to be continued.
15:35:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Be continued.
15:35:58 Okay.
15:36:02 >>> As I stated I'm here on behalf of petitioner.
15:36:05 Mr. Mawardi filed a petition seeking an S-2 special
15:36:11 use for a 4(COP-R).
15:36:13 The subject location is located at the southwest
15:36:15 corner of Fowler Avenue and 52nd street as Cathy

15:36:20 previously pointed out.
15:36:21 It was previously O'ryans and whistle junction.
15:36:26 At this point in time the place is closed.
15:36:28 It is considered a large venue under the city's
15:36:30 definition because the facility has in excess of
15:36:34 11,000 square feet and the capacity is in excess of
15:36:37 299 which is your large venue definition capacity.
15:36:44 We are here before you because we require certain
15:36:47 waivers.
15:36:47 We have 250 feet from residential property.
15:36:52 We are 800 feet to an institutional use, that being a
15:36:55 church.
15:36:56 And I think if you might have read in today's paper
15:36:58 that church in fact was trying to give the property
15:37:01 back or sell it back to the county and there was a
15:37:03 hearing on it yet because they have moved their
15:37:05 location.
15:37:05 Question was, how much money and who is going to keep
15:37:08 the proceeds from the sale of the church, and there
15:37:11 was an article, well, that's the church on Fowler
15:37:15 Avenue that's within 500 feet of our location.
15:37:18 And then there are other liquor establishments within

15:37:20 hundred feet.
15:37:21 I think if you look at them they are either
15:37:23 2(COP-R)s, three of them, or three 2(APS)es.
15:37:28 Basically those are package sales.
15:37:35 I have a feeling that we might be drawing a little bit
15:37:37 of opposition.
15:37:37 So I would like to reserve as much of my time as I can
15:37:40 to address issues that may be raised, if council has
15:37:46 no objection I prefer to do that.
15:38:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public who wishes to
15:38:03 address council on this item?
15:38:04 Those in opposition?
15:38:06 Okay.
15:38:07 In opposition?
15:38:08 Okay.
15:38:09 How many in opposition?
15:38:12 All right.
15:38:13 How many in support?
15:38:15 Oh, yeah.
15:38:16 Okay.
15:38:19 Those who are in opposition to my left.
15:38:21 Those in support to my right.

15:38:22 Okay?
15:38:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Council has a rule that if you are
15:38:27 in support and you are, for example, employed by or
15:38:30 the son-in-law of the petitioner, need to share that
15:38:34 information.
15:38:37 >>> Ms. Saul-Sena raises a very good point, and I wish
15:38:40 to bring it to council's attention.
15:38:43 Mr. Miranda had referenced it in previous meetings.
15:38:45 First of all I want to be clear.
15:38:48 Is anyone who is testifying here today, have you been
15:38:50 sworn in?
15:38:50 Is there anybody here who is going to testify who has
15:38:52 not been sworn?
15:38:54 So I'm assuming that everybody here has been sworn and
15:38:56 signed the sign-in sheet.
15:38:58 Council, I would bring to your attention that per
15:39:04 council's rules -- and this is relative to everybody
15:39:06 who is going to testify, please, all persons who
15:39:09 provide testimony, information or opinion regarding a
15:39:12 petition in a quasi-judicial matter pending before
15:39:15 City Council must disclose any direct or indirect
15:39:18 business or personal interest between themselves and

15:39:20 the petitioner or applicant which is requesting
15:39:23 action.
15:39:24 This information shall not be used to deny the
15:39:26 petition of the matter but goes to the weight of the
15:39:29 evidence, information, or opinion provided.
15:39:31 So if you could pleas do that, council would be very
15:39:35 appreciative.
15:39:35 Thank you.
15:39:37 >>> Dr. Ken base, vice-president, Dean of the students
15:39:47 of the University of South Florida.
15:39:49 And I have no affiliation with the petitioner.
15:39:53 I come out of concern for my students.
15:39:55 I have been apprised of the business practices of
15:39:59 scoops Orlando, and I know that what I've seen, and
15:40:03 what has been advertised and marketed, it seems like
15:40:06 it encourages binge drinking.
15:40:10 I have 4500 students on campus, University of South
15:40:14 Florida resident students.
15:40:15 We desire to keep all of our students on campus and
15:40:17 provide a lot of activities for them.
15:40:19 But when they go on web sites and see people drinking
15:40:22 out of funnels and really sensationalize drinking

15:40:27 aspect, and what I have seen on the web site, it
15:40:30 encourages binge drinking.
15:40:32 And as you know, alcohol sentence a major problem for
15:40:35 colleges and universities across the country.
15:40:37 And I'm fully aware that our colleagues at the
15:40:40 University of central Florida have had to consider,
15:40:44 their student government has had to consider getting a
15:40:47 bus to go over to the establishment to bring students
15:40:49 back to the campus after they have been out drinking
15:40:52 all night.
15:40:52 And, you know, I don't want to see us have to utilize
15:40:56 the same behavior to police underage drinking on our
15:41:00 campus.
15:41:01 I don't want to enable our students to go out and
15:41:03 drink.
15:41:03 We are providing late-night programming for our
15:41:05 students to deter them from going off campus.
15:41:08 But, you know, peer group is a strong influence for
15:41:12 college and university students.
15:41:14 And one of my other concerns is that right across
15:41:19 Fowler Avenue is a major thoroughfare and I really
15:41:24 have concerns about my students walking across Fowler

15:41:27 Avenue to go to this establishment.
15:41:28 I have heard that they are going to provide shuttles
15:41:32 and everything but I think that only enables students
15:41:34 to be irresponsible and drink because they know they
15:41:36 have someone that can bring them back to the campus.
15:41:38 I'm aware of that.
15:41:40 At the University of central Florida, that a student
15:41:43 was killed as a result of drinking at the
15:41:47 establishment.
15:41:48 Not that that's their fault because students have to
15:41:50 be held responsible for their behavior.
15:41:52 However, the fact is that I know this establishment
15:41:57 has been very popular on the Internet web site, and I
15:42:01 really do have severe concerns about this
15:42:05 establishment.
15:42:05 And so I want to come down and voice my concern as an
15:42:09 administrator and as a person who think it's out of
15:42:16 character and I said that as an administrator.
15:42:19 I just wanted to bring that to your attention.
15:42:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:42:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm sorry, and I apologize for
15:42:26 being out for a second.

15:42:27 I was listening but you I didn't get it all.
15:42:30 What are we doing?
15:42:31 I see a 4(COP-R).
15:42:34 Is this secondary to -- what is it they are going to
15:42:38 have?
15:42:39 >>> Well, my understanding is it was going to be a
15:42:41 restaurant, but they also want to, I guess, have a
15:42:45 nightclub in the evening.
15:42:46 >> Well, here again the legal department can correct
15:42:50 me if I am wrong.
15:42:53 It means they have to have 51% of sales, of food.
15:42:59 Am I correct?
15:42:59 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
15:43:02 You are correct.
15:43:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And no more than 49%.
15:43:07 And I'm not anti-college and I'm not -- but all
15:43:10 colleges have to understand that I can only speak for
15:43:14 me.
15:43:14 I'm not responsible what happens on your property.
15:43:17 There's a lot of binge drinking that happens outside
15:43:25 your fine university.
15:43:27 And I'm speaking all universities. This alcohol thing

15:43:30 has gotten out of hand.
15:43:31 You know why?
15:43:32 Because they see it with their parents.
15:43:34 They see it when they are growing up.
15:43:36 They see it all through life.
15:43:38 And at the end, they become a mirror of what they have
15:43:41 seen in their life.
15:43:43 And I'm not a preacher but I'm telling you what I know
15:43:45 about life.
15:43:48 And I may stand up one day and preach.
15:43:51 I like that.
15:43:52 But when you --
15:43:55 >>> When you advertise two and three drink specials,
15:43:59 it increases the opportunity to do binge drink and we
15:44:02 know that the 18 to 24 age bracket --
15:44:05 Okay, your three minutes is up.
15:44:06 >>> Okay, thank you very much.
15:44:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Opposition?
15:44:09 Actually line up on the right.
15:44:11 Those in opposition.
15:44:12 I'm going back and forth.
15:44:16 Opposition and then those in favor to my right.

15:44:19 If you are in favor you have to line up.
15:44:20 I'm going back and forth between pro and con.
15:44:23 Okay?
15:44:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Somebody come up.
15:44:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, come on, sir.
15:44:31 >>> Good afternoon, City Council.
15:44:34 My name is -- chaplain at USF at the University of
15:44:41 Tampa for many years, since 1976.
15:44:44 Binge drinking and alcohol is a problem in all
15:44:47 universities.
15:44:47 And I hope that maybe from this opportunity here, we
15:44:53 might find a solution to going in a direction that
15:44:55 will help us alleviate this problem.
15:44:57 And this is a major problem.
15:45:00 But councilman, it's very true, we can't control the
15:45:05 rights of the young student to do what he or she wants
15:45:08 to do off premises.
15:45:10 And there are hundreds of drinking establishments
15:45:14 everywhere.
15:45:16 Wherever you turn.
15:45:19 I don't know -- when I find out about the whistle
15:45:25 junction application for a restaurant and also a

15:45:28 drinking -- a place to have a drink.
15:45:32 I came up with the idea, and I ran it past them, and I
15:45:36 think this will be something that maybe the light at
15:45:40 the end of the tunnel.
15:45:41 We have got to educate our young people.
15:45:43 We have got to be able to create a venue where they
15:45:47 will see that drinking is dangerous to themselves.
15:45:50 It's not fun.
15:45:52 And the fact that it's set within a restaurant, which
15:45:57 is a place to eat, and at the same time also we can't
15:45:59 tell them, now, you cannot go ahead and have drinks.
15:46:05 This may be an opportunity to allow myself, pastors.
15:46:13 I spoke with individuals involved in it, to have a
15:46:17 restaurant that will give education material as well
15:46:21 as some sort of opportunity to apprise students on the
15:46:28 dangers when it comes to drinking.
15:46:31 You know, we have got to be proactive, not reactive.
15:46:35 We have a problem in America today.
15:46:36 And it's drinking.
15:46:38 And the university presidents say let's move it down
15:46:41 to 18 years, allow them to drink.
15:46:44 We have got to come up with solutions that aren't

15:46:47 just, we are going to contain it, we are going to
15:46:50 deprive them of it.
15:46:51 We can't deprive them of it.
15:46:53 So it's not radical, but we have got to educate.
15:46:59 We have got to create understanding within the young
15:47:01 people, and it's not as if there are no drinking
15:47:06 establishments everywhere you turn in the campus, or
15:47:08 as you saw from all of the requests today, but we have
15:47:12 to deal with the reality of what is.
15:47:16 I had a friend, his name is bill.
15:47:19 He once told me, rabbi, I don't always agree with you,
15:47:22 he said, but we have got to deal with what is, not
15:47:25 with what we want it to be.
15:47:27 And came up with a variety of things, coming in from
15:47:33 out of the country, and he said, if I don't have that,
15:47:37 then I cannot survive, even though the standards are
15:47:40 not the way they are here.
15:47:42 But don't change my surroundings.
15:47:49 I can make a difference here.
15:47:50 And that is what we have to deal with today.
15:47:53 There are many, many drinking establishments there.
15:47:57 I guess the requirement is to be able to have hours

15:48:02 that students feel comfortable with.
15:48:04 And that requires the late-night Friday nights,
15:48:08 et cetera.
15:48:10 (Bell sounds).
15:48:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Rabbi, thanks.
15:48:12 Your time is up.
15:48:14 Thank you very much.
15:48:14 Thank you, sir.
15:48:16 The speaker to my left.
15:48:18 >> I have a paper for additional time.
15:48:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you are here please acknowledge
15:48:27 that.
15:48:27 Lyon.
15:48:31 Carol Wells.
15:48:32 Two additional minutes, please.
15:48:34 >> If I could have the overhead I appreciate it.
15:48:37 >> You have the pictures there already?
15:48:40 >> Yes, I do.
15:48:41 >> Thank you.
15:48:45 Bill Lyon.
15:48:47 I'm a resident of Lutz.
15:48:48 You live at 19713 Courtney Joe lane.

15:48:52 My family and I moved to Tampa in 1953 and since that
15:48:55 tame I have resided exclusively in northern and
15:48:57 northwestern Hillsborough County.
15:49:00 I am and have been for the last 29 years a regular
15:49:03 attending member of EL Bethel Primitive Baptist Church
15:49:09 off 51st street and Fowler Avenue.
15:49:11 The location of our church is only 800 feet from the
15:49:14 proposed nightclub.
15:49:17 The representation today as a member of our church is
15:49:20 to voice our opposition to the proposed nightclub.
15:49:23 Over the last several years, the area in our church
15:49:26 and the proposed nightclub would be located has
15:49:28 experienced a substantial increase in growth and thus
15:49:31 a substantial increase in crime.
15:49:33 Our church and the associated buildings have been
15:49:36 willized -- vandalized including but not limited to
15:49:40 breaking and entering, theft, and spray painting of
15:49:43 gang symbols on certain outside walls.
15:49:46 My life experience in having lived in the area for
15:49:48 several decades has afforded me a degree of knowledge,
15:49:51 understanding, and wisdom that exceeds that of my
15:49:54 youth.

15:49:56 One need not be a sociologist or psychiatrist to
15:50:00 understand and realize the widespread abuses which not
15:50:03 unlike those abuses presently taking place at other
15:50:06 night spots, but indeed will take place at the
15:50:09 nightclub proposed here today.
15:50:13 And any truly well experienced prosecutor or police
15:50:16 officer will acknowledge that places such as the one
15:50:19 proposed will be nothing less, more perhaps, nothing
15:50:23 less than a magnet that will attract all of the most
15:50:25 seedy and undesirable elements within the immediate
15:50:28 surrounding communities.
15:50:31 Those who are proposing this new night spot will of
15:50:33 course try and sugarcoat their intentions and explain
15:50:36 all of the steps they plan to implement so as to make
15:50:39 the club safer, more compliant, different, and more
15:50:45 palatable than others throughout the Tampa Bay area.
15:50:47 If, however, the proposed club is allowed to open, the
15:50:50 reality of the situation will no doubt manifest it
15:50:55 within a short period of time.
15:50:58 Liability, council members, is the key word that
15:51:00 merits your attention.
15:51:05 Along with the seedy and criminal elements will be

15:51:08 those rather innocent young people with no criminal
15:51:11 record but with a natural curiosity from the upbeat.
15:51:19 We teach our young people for responsibility for their
15:51:23 actions.
15:51:24 We should expect nothing less from our elected
15:51:26 officials.
15:51:27 Should you chose to allow the club to open, and when,
15:51:31 not if, trouble or God forbid tragedy occurs, they
15:51:35 will most assured by be a line personal injury and
15:51:38 wrongful death attorneys waiting in the wings to
15:51:40 spread the liability to anyone and everyone possible
15:51:45 including the City of Tampa.
15:51:46 Please don't be found guilty of contributing to the
15:51:49 personal injury or wrongful death of a young person
15:51:51 who presently is alive and well.
15:51:55 Pleas consider these words to heart and govern
15:51:57 yourselves accordingly.
15:51:59 With the tame remaining I would like to speak to the
15:52:01 narrative.
15:52:02 Our church is about 800 feet, 51st and Fowler
15:52:05 Avenue, from the proposed nightclub.
15:52:08 We do D not receive any notification whatsoever by

15:52:11 regular mail or certified mail.
15:52:14 I moved to an apartment on 14th street and Fowler
15:52:18 Avenue in April 1974.
15:52:20 In those days there was no such thing as suitcase
15:52:22 city. That entire area was mostly wooded.
15:52:24 The only thing on Fowler Avenue was lum's restaurant
15:52:27 which served beer as well as the university restaurant
15:52:30 owned by the Scaglione family, University of South
15:52:33 Florida was growing.
15:52:35 Today, the apartment where I used to live is now
15:52:38 surrounded by a wrought iron fence about 7 feet high,
15:52:44 known as suitcase city.
15:52:46 We are talking about from Fowler Avenue north to now
15:52:51 Bearss Avenue, 30th street,
15:53:00 This type of club if you la at the overhead, this is a
15:53:07 club owned by the gentleman proposing this club.
15:53:09 And this is the type of establishment they are
15:53:12 proposing.
15:53:17 Binge drinking, this tape of -- our community doesn't
15:53:20 need this.
15:53:20 We have people coming into our church now right off
15:53:24 the street.

15:53:25 And we welcome anyone if they are coming in to -- but
15:53:33 when they come in for lunch, when they come in for
15:53:36 curiosity and the big money, we don't approve of that.
15:53:39 And there are a number of people walking through the
15:53:42 building.
15:53:43 We have church services Sunday morning, sometimes
15:53:46 Sunday evening, sometimes we have Thursday evening
15:53:48 services.
15:53:48 And unfortunately, this type of a club is not going to
15:53:51 enhance the community in any way.
15:53:55 There are in a social redeeming values in what you
15:53:57 just saw in this picture.
15:53:59 And I would certainly appreciate, as would the other
15:54:02 members of our congregation appreciate, that you take
15:54:05 these things to heart and realize that this type of
15:54:10 establishment is nothing that they should have.
15:54:14 Thank you.
15:54:16 (Bell sounds).
15:54:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker to my right.
15:54:22 >> My name is Dasal ma wad I, the petitioners.
15:54:29 And I'm not a great speaker and I don't prepare
15:54:33 speeches or anything.

15:54:34 I speak from the heart.
15:54:35 When my son moved into UCF, about four years ago, I
15:54:40 walked around with him around UCF and checked out all
15:54:44 the bars, the night clubs, places that kids that you
15:54:49 see were attending, and what I found was sleazy bars
15:54:55 that cater to no one in particular, but kids went
15:55:00 there just for drinking.
15:55:02 We came up with the idea that we wanted to create a
15:55:05 restaurant, a social venue, and sports bar for kids
15:55:10 that gather maybe from Miami, from Ft. Lauderdale,
15:55:14 from all over, where they have a social, with those
15:55:18 people coming to our case are kids that no each other.
15:55:22 They have met in Miami or other places.
15:55:27 There is not a mix of 50, 60-year-old, 40-year-old.
15:55:32 These are college sports bar where they come to watch
15:55:35 sport and socialize.
15:55:36 Prayer to that in Orlando was no such thing.
15:55:41 We had a store, liquor license and everything and it's
15:55:46 more away from everyone and it's a very popular place
15:55:49 with the kids.
15:55:51 The same thing with the idea we came to help out with
15:55:54 the idea to create something for college kids.

15:55:57 We spend tons of money to sends our kids to colleges
15:56:02 but on the other hand we let them go and hide and go
15:56:05 and basements and sleazy places and drink in binges.
15:56:10 Over the years, we have had maybe 300 or 500 that you
15:56:14 people walk through our bars.
15:56:18 With a professor, the administrator mentioned about
15:56:20 the kids that died coming or leaving our bars, that is
15:56:25 not correct.
15:56:26 Somebody walking on east colonial from another bar to
15:56:31 our establishment had nothing to do with our
15:56:33 establishment.
15:56:36 We went to try an experiment, we reprimanded people
15:56:41 that did something wrong.
15:56:42 We have police officers in our police at all times,
15:56:44 while the place is open.
15:56:46 We have four police officers there. We have nine
15:56:49 security people within the place.
15:56:52 People come and socialize and the place gets very
15:56:55 popular, and that's why support from a lot of people,
15:57:00 we have support, the attorney has letters and the
15:57:03 police department.
15:57:04 I don't know why people always think of college kids

15:57:10 as sleazy.
15:57:11 This is the future of our country.
15:57:13 Why are they all sleazy?
15:57:14 Why does it have to do with kids that come to eat,
15:57:18 watch sports bar, and to go and vandalize houses,
15:57:23 churches and things like that.
15:57:25 We try to always, always -- and I have eight children.
15:57:28 I never had a drink near my kids.
15:57:31 It comes from the house just like you said.
15:57:34 I'm not here to correct the whole world.
15:57:36 But our place, in our establishment, can make a
15:57:40 difference in letting people know that drinking is not
15:57:44 just the venue for drinking.
15:57:47 There's social life.
15:57:48 There's fun.
15:57:49 Where they can come to a place, watch basketball,
15:57:56 anything they want in sports and socialize.
15:57:57 (Bell sounds).
15:57:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I don't have a
15:58:01 computer so these things that are put up here that
15:58:03 says scoop, is that original photo from where?
15:58:06 From who's place?

15:58:08 >>> I have no idea where that photo was.
15:58:11 All I know that scalp was opened, the name was opened
15:58:15 up at scoop, nightly scoop, and we were thinking of
15:58:19 making nightly scoop to go in every state, near
15:58:23 colleges, and to be just like came about Dave and
15:58:30 Busters, we want to be for college kids, and that's
15:58:34 why --
15:58:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if you have a question
15:58:39 regarding something you previously saw, you have the
15:58:40 right to inquire of that person to call them back if
15:58:42 you wish.
15:58:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I may.
15:58:45 I saw it.
15:58:45 I don't know who put it up here.
15:58:47 If that gentleman put it up --
15:58:51 From the church.
15:58:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Would you come up, please?
15:58:55 >> Thank you.
15:58:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
15:59:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Since I don't have a computer and I
15:59:04 don't follow computerism too much, where are these
15:59:07 photos from, and -- I guess the indication is to tie

15:59:12 this into this petition somehow.
15:59:17 >>> We were given these photos --
15:59:22 >>> This photograph photo --
15:59:24 Excuse me.
15:59:25 State your name on the record, please.
15:59:29 >>> Karen Hernandez.
15:59:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:59:32 Are you the owner of these pictures?
15:59:34 >>> Um, owner?
15:59:39 They were given to me by members of the Tampa
15:59:41 alcoholic coalition.
15:59:43 Does that make me the owner?
15:59:44 >> Well, you brought them.
15:59:46 Do you know where these pictures came from?
15:59:47 >> Yes, I do.
15:59:48 They were downloaded by Tampa alcohol coalition
15:59:51 members from the web site online for scoop.
15:59:54 And I have copies of each and every group of these
15:59:58 pictures for each and every one of you, as well as the
16:00:02 web site which we got them from.
16:00:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, councilman, does that answer
16:00:07 your question?

16:00:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Does this relate to the same ones,
16:00:11 that own scoop?
16:00:11 >>> In Orlando, and this is the establishment and this
16:00:14 is what they call a gaggaloo party which was on the
16:00:19 Internet advertising to be taking place at the current
16:00:22 place in Tampa, until they removed it from the
16:00:25 Internet, the party advertisement so we and I have
16:00:31 that information in here as well, as to when they were
16:00:33 removed.
16:00:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
16:00:38 Okay.
16:00:40 Yes, sir.
16:00:43 >>> My name is -- I reside in Lutz, 314 Lake Caron
16:00:51 Avenue.
16:00:53 As a deacon and member of the EL Bethel Baptist church
16:00:57 I am here to speak out on our position.
16:01:01 Our church building is located at 11605, which is
16:01:07 directly behind this club.
16:01:11 Our parking lot almost meets.
16:01:12 That's how close we are.
16:01:14 Over the next several years, crime was in the area
16:01:17 around the church has increased dramatically.

16:01:22 The type of so-called club that's been proposed would
16:01:27 will do nothing to enhance or improve the quality of
16:01:29 life within the immediate area of the proposed night
16:01:32 spot.
16:01:36 Approval of special business however will contribute
16:01:43 accept not only of the church but the entire committee
16:01:46 and I would also like to say a concern to me that the
16:01:49 church was not notified of the rezoning of this club.
16:01:54 This comes from an outside source.
16:01:56 And I felt like we definitely should have been
16:01:59 informed of it, I would not have got it from the
16:02:04 outside source we would not be down here to oppose it.
16:02:07 Thank you for hearing me.
16:02:08 Thank you.
16:02:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
16:02:11 Do you have a question?
16:02:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, this is the second
16:02:13 time I have heard that church has not been notified.
16:02:16 I wonder if I could ask the distance requirement.
16:02:20 I want to make sure that we somehow didn't fall
16:02:25 through the cracks or something of that nature and I
16:02:27 want to rectify that before we continue with this

16:02:29 hearing.
16:02:39 >> Okay.
16:02:39 >> President and CEO of the designated driving
16:02:47 company.
16:02:48 I went to -- want to go ahead and let you know that
16:02:50 Romi and some of his associates petitioning here today
16:02:55 contacted me prayer to deciding on whether or not to
16:02:59 open this establishment and said they were very
16:03:00 interested in talking with me about a safe way to get
16:03:05 people not just USF students but anybody in general
16:03:08 that would be drinking in this establishment and home
16:03:11 safely, and that is my job.
16:03:12 What we do is we provide designated drivers for
16:03:15 anybody who needs them.
16:03:16 We are open from 8 a.m -- or 8 p.m. to 4 a.m. seven
16:03:21 days a week, no holiday.
16:03:26 Romi had contacted me and wanted to set up an
16:03:29 agreement with us where he could pay for his patrons
16:03:35 who needed it and the reason I'm here today in front
16:03:38 of you is because Romi is the only bar owner in
16:03:42 Hillsborough County, and I deal with hundreds of bar
16:03:45 owners every day, that ever proposed to pay for their

16:03:49 patrons home, and I would like to see an example like
16:03:52 Romi and scoop is setting here and I would like to see
16:03:55 that followed through other business owners and other
16:03:57 establishments.
16:03:58 Most people would like to turn a blind eye and pretend
16:04:00 that that doesn't happen at their establishment.
16:04:02 But unfortunately it does.
16:04:06 And does over 300 rids a month which would be roughly
16:04:10 60 a week from establishments all over Hillsborough
16:04:12 County.
16:04:12 We have 20 locations.
16:04:14 We are very reputable company and our goal is to
16:04:16 provide a service for people anonymously, whatever,
16:04:22 that need a ride home.
16:04:24 Like I said, I would like to see more establishments
16:04:26 like this one, take an initiative and say, listen, we
16:04:30 know that people are leaving our establishment drunk,
16:04:32 and we would like to make sure that they don't
16:04:35 endanger anybody else on the road or themselves.
16:04:37 And so that's what I would love to see in order to do.
16:04:48 >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman, council members.
16:04:50 Joe Affronti, mayor of Temple Terrace.

16:04:54 This establishment is right on the border of Temple
16:04:56 Terrace on 52nd street, just happens to be over on the
16:05:00 other side of the street in Tampa.
16:05:04 But I'll be very brief.
16:05:07 When you hear all the other people that have to speak
16:05:10 and find out the details and the stats on what this
16:05:15 establishment is doing in the city of Orlando, and
16:05:20 right near a university where we have 43,000 students
16:05:23 at the University of South Florida, we are very
16:05:25 concerned.
16:05:26 So this past week, our council voted unanimously to
16:05:31 oppose this, because we feel that our job as elected
16:05:35 officials is protect is the T safety of our citizens.
16:05:39 That's number one.
16:05:40 And we feel that when you hear everything that's going
16:05:43 to be presented here, I think you will agree to that,
16:05:46 that this would put our safety of our citizens in
16:05:48 jeopardy.
16:05:49 And we are very concerned about it.
16:05:52 And we hope that you will see it the way we do, and
16:05:54 vote to oppose this establishment.
16:05:59 Thank you.

16:06:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for taking your time to
16:06:03 come.
16:06:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, mayor.
16:06:07 >> Good afternoon.
16:06:08 My name is Keith Mawardi, the older brother.
16:06:13 As I said, no big words to tell you.
16:06:17 I'm not trying to hedge the facts about anything.
16:06:19 This is what I think.
16:06:21 Look at me.
16:06:22 I'm young.
16:06:23 I'm 23 years old.
16:06:25 I'm maturity, he just wants to have fun.
16:06:28 I'm not saying this because of myself but I feel as a
16:06:30 23-year-old and being young like myself and my
16:06:33 brothers I feel we have more knowledge about how
16:06:35 people go against the law and drink.
16:06:39 I know what kids want to do.
16:06:40 I have friends also.
16:06:41 I have younger people all around the bar, and I feel
16:06:44 like us being young, as much as it looks negative and
16:06:47 sounds negative, it's completely just the opposite.
16:06:49 We know what's going on.

16:06:51 And I'm kind of getting upset and more so hurt,
16:06:53 sleazy, graffiti, vandalism.
16:06:56 How would even me as a normal citizen and good person
16:07:01 committee such a negative thing and to say we promote
16:07:05 binge drinking, underage drinking.
16:07:08 I have brothers and sisters and God forbid if a drunk
16:07:11 driver hit one of them or if they should drink and
16:07:14 drive.
16:07:14 I don't even drink and to tell you the truth I never
16:07:18 drink once.
16:07:18 I own a bar.
16:07:20 We are not trying to come here and God forbid hurt
16:07:23 your establishment, hurt your community.
16:07:24 That is not our purpose.
16:07:25 Are we going to lie and say that people do not slip
16:07:28 across the cracks and mistakes happen?
16:07:31 I would be the first to say 100% yes.
16:07:33 But do we take every precaution, over every bar owner
16:07:38 I can guarantee, yes.
16:07:41 Have we had any incidents?
16:07:43 Our bar has been open for Luke a short period of time
16:07:46 but the bar opens for ten years.

16:07:48 And I'm saying this because we are vigilant.
16:07:50 We are aware.
16:07:51 I have letters from corporation, sheriff's offices.
16:07:55 If you are inappropriate, young.
16:07:59 I can show you pictures everyone hatters.
16:08:02 I can go anywhere and get in an accident.
16:08:04 Just to say that -- I keep hearing night club.
16:08:08 We are not a restaurant/sports club and grill.
16:08:12 How about the fire marshal and police department and
16:08:16 poker nights?
16:08:17 That we do for establishments.
16:08:19 That's being overlad.
16:08:24 I feel unfortunate that we have just this negative
16:08:26 view of just a couple of things and a couple of people
16:08:30 hurting it.
16:08:32 How many good people are everywhere?
16:08:35 It's unfortunate.
16:08:36 So our thing is to honestly, a college crowd, we have
16:08:39 an age limit, you know.
16:08:43 We have to be over 21 years old.
16:08:45 We are working with you.
16:08:46 We will not do specials.

16:08:48 Everyone thinks free drinks, free drinks.
16:08:50 We are not doing free drinks.
16:08:51 We have standards.
16:08:52 We have police.
16:08:53 So my thing here is not could Vince you of how good I
16:08:56 am or anything but not to let the negative overlook
16:08:59 the positive.
16:09:00 And it's all positive that comes out of this.
16:09:02 It's a great experience for me and also a social
16:09:04 place, not just a nightclub.
16:09:05 So there's a lot of characteristics and very hard to
16:09:08 understand.
16:09:09 I know that a lot of people are opposing that and it's
16:09:12 unfortunate.
16:09:14 And I am not trying to talk negative about anybody.
16:09:16 But police see our point.
16:09:19 Everybody see our point just because we are young does
16:09:21 not mean we are not mature, does not mean we don't
16:09:23 care.
16:09:24 I think I care a lot.
16:09:25 And we are trying to do safe rides home.
16:09:29 Trying to do double ID checks at the bar.

16:09:31 Trying to make it a 21-year-old establishment.
16:09:33 I don't think anyone is going to walk over to the
16:09:36 church.
16:09:36 We have four police officers every night standing
16:09:38 outside until everybody leaves.
16:09:40 Thank you for your time.
16:09:42 (Bell sounds).
16:09:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
16:09:50 >> Galen Thomas, 902 jungle Avenue north in
16:09:54 St. Petersburg.
16:09:54 I'm the pastor of EL Bethel Primitive Baptist Church.
16:09:58 On behalf of the congregation, we oppose the
16:10:01 petitioner's petition.
16:10:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, pastor.
16:10:13 >> Peter Frontac.
16:10:16 I attend EL Bethel Primitive Baptist Church.
16:10:20 I have seen the web site for the scoop, bar,
16:10:23 nightclub.
16:10:25 I have no previous experience with them except what I
16:10:27 see, which is what is their web site, and the web site
16:10:30 to me, I hear what they are saying that they promote
16:10:36 values but I don't see the evidence.

16:10:38 I see the evidence that promotes binge drinking and
16:10:41 very alcohol related activities.
16:10:48 I'm very concerned about that type of venue very close
16:10:52 to our church, a venue that is promoting these
16:10:55 activities, and what effect it will have on our
16:10:57 church.
16:10:58 Thank you very much.
16:11:02 >>> Joshua -- over in Orlando and will be working over
16:11:08 here.
16:11:10 Just wanted to say I think there's a little
16:11:12 misunderstanding about a bar across the street, less
16:11:15 than a stone's throw away, who has been there for some
16:11:19 time and no one is complaining about it.
16:11:21 There haven't been issues.
16:11:23 We are close to USF but we are not looking to make it
16:11:26 a highway of people running across looking to get in
16:11:29 trouble, looking to get hit by cars, God forbid.
16:11:33 We are looking to work with USF.
16:11:34 We want to better USF.
16:11:36 We are not trying to exploit USF.
16:11:38 And I think that USF could be just like UCF in some
16:11:44 places, an establishment different from others but UCF

16:11:49 has accepted our help and we have accepted theirs a
16:11:51 lot and worked together and I think better than
16:11:56 university of central Florida.
16:11:57 I think we would like to do the same with central
16:12:01 Florida if given a chance.
16:12:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
16:12:03 Next speaker.
16:12:07 >>> Good afternoon.
16:12:09 I have a waiver form and I also have some information.
16:12:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Put your name for the record.
16:12:14 >>> Karen Hernandez.
16:12:16 1211 Forest Hills drive.
16:12:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead.
16:12:51 >>> Thank you very much.
16:12:52 My name is Karen Hernandez as I stated before.
16:12:55 I am part of the Tampa alcohol coalition and I am also
16:12:58 as I know many of you have heard me speak before, I am
16:13:01 a professionally trained former bartender of
16:13:04 approximately seven years.
16:13:05 I have a business that teaches practices to bars and
16:13:10 establishments that puts them in compliance with
16:13:12 responsible vendor statute.

16:13:14 For this time at this moment I am here on behalf of
16:13:17 Tampa alcohol coalition and would like to express
16:13:20 Tampa alcohol coalition's concerns with this specific
16:13:23 establishment.
16:13:27 We do not support the special use permit for a
16:13:30 4(COP-R) and a closing time of 3 a.m. for the scoop
16:13:35 bar and grill.
16:13:36 We would be willing to listen to the community and
16:13:39 listen to the owners and managers of scoop Orlando --
16:13:45 I'm sorry, scoop Tampa, and see if there is anything
16:13:48 that can make this better.
16:13:49 However, we support the community as a whole.
16:13:51 We support the University of South Florida.
16:13:53 If this establishment is something that keeps
16:13:57 insisting wants to be a restaurant we have no problem
16:14:00 with that.
16:14:00 We would think that if City Council would choose to
16:14:03 give them some form of licensing, that they would take
16:14:06 into consideration the area, the concerns of the
16:14:08 neighbors, the USF students, and at least let them run
16:14:13 as a restaurant.
16:14:14 My understanding of restaurant is closing time is

16:14:16 11:00 on the weekends, midnight on -- on the weekdays,
16:14:21 midnight on the weekends.
16:14:23 Let them serve food.
16:14:24 Let it be a family place.
16:14:26 Now, having said that, I know I have provided you with
16:14:30 facts that have come from Tampa alcohol coalition and
16:14:37 there are some questions and issues that came up on
16:14:40 these.
16:14:41 Drink specials we have heard about binge drinking.
16:14:43 I would like the fact that it has the writing on it,
16:14:48 the second page, has free drink specials, this was
16:14:53 found online, prior to it being removed on August
16:14:56 2nd after scoop Tampa was aware that there was the
16:15:02 opposition.
16:15:03 I would like to point out one of these.
16:15:08 Free bare all night, bring your own cup, free,
16:15:12 32-ounces.
16:15:14 Power hours, 60 shots in 60 minutes, hundreds of
16:15:18 people.
16:15:18 Okay.
16:15:19 Now, the beer, if that's the power hour and they are
16:15:23 doing maybe one once.

16:15:25 I don't know, but that's pushing 8-plus beers in one
16:15:29 hour.
16:15:30 I consider that binge drinking.
16:15:31 And that is a special that they run.
16:15:34 So I would have some concerns as would Tampa alcohol
16:15:38 coalition that these drink specials here would
16:15:40 encourage the type of excessive drinking that we do
16:15:45 not want in this area.
16:15:46 Now, there are pictures that I have also provided to
16:15:49 you, and if I can put them on the board I will not put
16:15:52 some of the more graphic ones, if I could.
16:15:55 There are just a couple in particular.
16:15:56 Number one, I hope this is park working.
16:16:00 This is just a spot of the picture of the scoop
16:16:04 Orlando web site, where we got the information, the
16:16:08 drink specials, which were put in your packet.
16:16:15 So that is where the information came from.
16:16:22 In addition to that, as a bartender, I am going to
16:16:29 speak as a bartender now, because I know you have
16:16:32 heard me do this before.
16:16:48 The two pictures that you see right here and right
16:16:53 here, this is a bottle of YAGER meister going straight

16:16:59 into the bartender's mouth.
16:17:01 This is a bartender.
16:17:03 One of the reasons they have a band around their arm
16:17:04 where they are holding the bottle opener for the
16:17:09 establishment.
16:17:09 When you have bartenders doing this on duty you have
16:17:11 customers that la like this, and look like this.
16:17:14 Now, that was the type of service from what we have
16:17:20 found is going on, and I don't know the ages of those
16:17:24 two people.
16:17:25 I see in a arm bands on either one of them so I don't
16:17:28 know if they are underage or 21 and up.
16:17:32 So our concern is at this point, for the safety of the
16:17:37 students at the University of South Florida, the
16:17:39 concerns that are coming with the church, with the
16:17:41 neighborhood, with Temple Terrace, we support the
16:17:44 community, having said that, Tampa alcohol coalition
16:17:46 also supports business.
16:17:48 We want a thriving business there.
16:17:50 If there is a restaurant to be had there, I would love
16:17:52 to take my kids there to go have something to eat.
16:17:55 However, this type of establishment is not something

16:17:57 that we want and this is what is being run in Orlando.
16:18:02 And I may be in error on this, but my understanding is
16:18:04 scoop Orlando does not run as a restaurant.
16:18:07 I believe their restaurant failed.
16:18:08 They run solely as a bar.
16:18:12 Now, one last thing.
16:18:14 I have a student 18 years old who is now at the
16:18:18 University of South Florida's honors college -- Go
16:18:22 Bulls -- extremely proud of him.
16:18:25 Please help me keep my student safe.
16:18:28 Thank you.
16:18:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
16:18:35 >>> Good afternoon.
16:18:37 My name is Tony deland, chief of police in Temple
16:18:40 Terrace.
16:18:41 My council and my community both are opposed to this
16:18:45 establishment.
16:18:47 And I have one question for the gentleman that said
16:18:50 there are four policemen there all the time.
16:18:52 The four policemen, how did they get 170 calls for
16:18:55 service other policemen had to respond to in seven
16:18:58 months?

16:18:59 These are from Orange County sheriff's office
16:19:01 statistics.
16:19:01 It's pretty high call for service, and my department
16:19:04 couldn't handle.
16:19:05 If they turn right coming out, my city no matter what
16:19:08 street they come out on.
16:19:10 Thank you.
16:19:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
16:19:14 >> Good afternoon.
16:19:17 Hamilton, alcohol and tobacco, Florida alcohol and
16:19:20 tobacco. I need to -- neither oppose nor am for the
16:19:26 business known as scoop Tampa.
16:19:29 I only wanted to present the facts that through the
16:19:33 other location we have ten complaints that were
16:19:36 actually lodged against the business.
16:19:39 The business itself, there was one care case which we
16:19:44 consider having to do with a death at the location,
16:19:46 and that was at that location, I have the facts here
16:19:51 based on what happened, and there was a death that
16:19:54 occurred that was actually associated with that
16:19:56 location in Orlando.
16:19:59 And that's all.

16:20:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, if there is in a one
16:20:07 here present to wishes to speak, the appropriate thing
16:20:09 at this time would now be to discuss the day of the
16:20:13 continuance, when the public hearing would have to be
16:20:16 continued.
16:20:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There is rebuttal.
16:20:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, here's the thing, the testimony
16:20:25 is not complete.
16:20:27 Are you granting him multiple rebuttals?
16:20:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
16:20:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So it would be inappropriate for
16:20:33 council to take discussion at this point because all
16:20:36 the evidence and testimony is not in, and if council
16:20:39 wishes to give the petitioner several rebuttals, then
16:20:42 that would be council's choice, although normally what
16:20:45 would happen is petitioner would have the last word
16:20:47 after all the evidence is in.
16:20:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me it will what you my concern is
16:20:52 now at this point.
16:20:53 Okay.
16:20:54 The petitioner is going to get rebuttal.
16:20:57 All the evidence is not in yet.

16:20:58 We are going to have two more hearings now, right?
16:21:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You are going to have the end of the
16:21:02 first public hearing and then you will have the
16:21:04 opportunity for a full second adoption public hearing
16:21:07 assuming that it does pass on first reading.
16:21:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me finish.
16:21:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Today would be --
16:21:15 I was come to that.
16:21:16 Now people that spoke today, will they be allowed to
16:21:19 come back and speak at the next hearing?
16:21:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Most likely the answer would be yes.
16:21:23 Council does have the ability to limit their
16:21:25 discussion to only that new information that will be
16:21:29 provided at the continued public hearing.
16:21:31 Council in the past has not allowed people to speak if
16:21:34 they spoke previously before, and there are no new
16:21:38 issues.
16:21:39 That is council's choice.
16:21:40 But obviously with regard to the traffic and what
16:21:46 other information may come before council, people
16:21:48 would have the right to be able to speak to those
16:21:50 items.

16:21:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Where would the new information come
16:21:58 from?
16:21:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The new information would come from
16:22:00 the evaluation of the information that has yet to be
16:22:02 provided to the staff for its evaluation and then
16:22:04 presented to City Council for its consideration.
16:22:07 >>CATHERINE COYLE: To clarify, it's the parking usual
16:22:10 you.
16:22:11 They need to revise the site plan and address the
16:22:13 parking issue so it's one particular item.
16:22:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
16:22:23 It would seem to me that what we can do is provide a
16:22:28 copy of the tape of this meeting to the council
16:22:30 members who weren't able to be present for it, and
16:22:34 that we should be very clear at the continuation of
16:22:37 this that the people who have spoken today, the only
16:22:41 new thing they could speak to would be transportation.
16:22:43 And that we could even limit that conversation to, you
16:22:47 know, two minutes if we wanted.
16:22:51 But we should pick the date and time and give the
16:22:59 other council members an opportunity to review the
16:23:01 tapes.

16:23:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you have something you wished to
16:23:07 say, Mr. Diaz?
16:23:08 >>> I have in a objections to that.
16:23:12 I welcome that.
16:23:13 I just want to put on the record I have not used all
16:23:17 of my time, because I was going to have to do rebuttal
16:23:21 so I reserved some of that together with my rebuttal
16:23:24 time.
16:23:24 To be honest with you, I would just as soon do my
16:23:27 rebuttal when the full council is here and everybody
16:23:29 has reviewed it.
16:23:30 I much prefer that.
16:23:32 And just in case of any other thing, I'll deal with it
16:23:35 then.
16:23:36 As far as I'm concerned, I have got to rebut today's
16:23:38 testimony.
16:23:39 I want to provide some information to city staff with
16:23:42 respect to the required parking and whether or not we
16:23:44 meet it and require a waiver, or do we satisfy it?
16:23:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: let me address the issue here, though,
16:23:52 the process we have for these hearings, is that right?
16:23:55 The process, and petitioner is afforded 15 minutes to

16:24:00 present his case, and afforded five minutes rebuttal,
16:24:03 is that correct?
16:24:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's correct.
16:24:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been my experience in ten years
16:24:06 you don't get a chance to reserve anything.
16:24:09 You have 15 minutes to present your case.
16:24:10 Once you give up that rate, you only have five minutes
16:24:13 rebuttal.
16:24:15 Now, council can correct me because you may be on a
16:24:18 different procedure here.
16:24:19 Our position is that at the time, like today, you have
16:24:24 still got -- you have 15 minutes and went into
16:24:29 discussion.
16:24:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Normally, council -- and I may not
16:24:32 have been present for the end of Mr. Diaz' initial
16:24:36 presentation, but normally, the council, the procedure
16:24:40 does not allow for it unless the petitioner makes that
16:24:43 request and council granted by unanimous consent, or
16:24:47 without objection.
16:24:48 And I don't know, Mr. Dias, did you make that request?
16:24:54 >>> You are going to see that I made that request.
16:24:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You made that request.

16:24:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And without objection I was not
16:24:59 present to be aware of how much time there was.
16:25:01 Normally, council, there have been instances in the
16:25:06 past where council did do that in certain
16:25:11 circumstances.
16:25:11 It was not a hard and fast recall if specifically the
16:25:15 request was made and there was no objection to that.
16:25:18 So I will have to find out how much time there was
16:25:20 left.
16:25:22 Unless there is an objection now, or unless council
16:25:27 wishes to have that discussion now, and then we'll
16:25:29 address --
16:25:31 Well, I think in the future that might be something
16:25:33 that council may want to consider.
16:25:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, sir.
16:25:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Again my experience is once you
16:25:39 relinquish those 15 minutes then you don't come back
16:25:42 and say, all right, now I want to use them or make
16:25:44 that request.
16:25:47 Again, my experience has been different elsewhere.
16:25:49 So that's why I wanted to preface that.
16:25:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The concern that also, council, two

16:25:57 things.
16:25:57 Number one is, when somebody reserves time for
16:26:01 rebuttal, additional time for rebuttal, that time is
16:26:03 not used to introduce new evidence after everybody has
16:26:06 spoken.
16:26:07 That's number one.
16:26:08 And number two, council, you do have the latitude when
16:26:11 there are a lot of people perhaps in the audience who
16:26:13 Don speak, that five minutes may not be a sufficient
16:26:16 time to address the number of people who did speak for
16:26:18 all the issues and council can make that adjustment
16:26:21 for the sake of fairness and due process to give the
16:26:23 Peter opportunity to be able to address those items.
16:26:26 So either way now.
16:26:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We disagree on that.
16:26:29 We disagree on that one.
16:26:31 We disagree.
16:26:32 I heard on many occasions, and I have seen
16:26:35 communities, five minutes rebuttal because that's the
16:26:39 process.
16:26:39 But we'll save that discussion for another day.
16:26:42 Now, in that council, he's saying that because you

16:26:44 made a request, there was no objection, which I was
16:26:47 going to raise at the end the discussion, grant you
16:26:50 some additional time, whatever that is.
16:26:52 But I'm telling you in the future we need to mail
16:26:54 these issues down.
16:26:56 Process on these issues is important to me.
16:26:58 We nail these things down.
16:26:59 I don't wanted people to start using this saying,
16:27:01 okay, I reserve my time and then take another 20
16:27:05 minutes along with the five.
16:27:06 We can't have that.
16:27:07 But he did make the request.
16:27:09 Yes.
16:27:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My motion would be to continue --
16:27:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Point of clarification.
16:27:15 Mr. Diaz, is this a restaurant or a bar?
16:27:18 >>> Yes, ma'am, it is a restaurant.
16:27:20 Location in Orlando is not an R zoning.
16:27:23 It's a 4(COP) license, I think if you review the
16:27:26 documentation.
16:27:27 The request before is you for a 4(COP-R).
16:27:29 That is the request that is before you.

16:27:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me follow with a question.
16:27:39 These pictures, is this the same or a different owner?
16:27:42 >>> It's the brother in Orlando.
16:27:44 Okay.
16:27:45 There it's a bar.
16:27:46 It's not a restaurant.
16:27:47 It is a bar.
16:27:49 It's a 4(COP).
16:27:50 I think you can check with Keith Hamilton in the
16:27:52 Division of Alcoholic Beverages and tobacco and he's
16:27:55 going to tell you there's a 4(COP) license at that
16:27:57 location, not an SRX, nothing like that.
16:28:00 That location has no 51-49% requirement.
16:28:04 This location will.
16:28:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
16:28:05 Let me follow up then.
16:28:07 Notification of the church.
16:28:08 What happened with that?
16:28:15 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
16:28:16 Under a special use notice criteria it's all property
16:28:19 owners within 250 feet direct distance of the property
16:28:23 itself that's under review.

16:28:26 There is no special requirement for a notification to
16:28:28 the churches or schools or anything, and the churches
16:28:31 are 800 feet away.
16:28:33 So it's a notification to all property owners within
16:28:35 250 feet and the neighborhood association.
16:28:37 And they were noticed according to the list.
16:28:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: They were noticed?
16:28:42 >>> The property owners and the neighborhood
16:28:43 association, yes.
16:28:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: In 250 feet, yes.
16:28:47 Okay.
16:28:48 So that explains to the church then they were outside
16:28:51 of 250 feet distance, 800 feet.
16:28:56 Yes, sir.
16:28:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I am given these
16:29:02 things and I'm sure they are in good thoughts and the
16:29:05 rate intentions.
16:29:06 I want to make sure that what I read is correct.
16:29:11 Article came out in the news of July 9th, 2008,
16:29:17 scoop is an Orlando bar owner, cheap drinks, and DAGO
16:29:21 parties.
16:29:21 I guess I don't know which are the Mawardi expects to

16:29:26 continue the tradition of DEGO parties in the Tampa
16:29:29 location.
16:29:30 Is that a fact or not?
16:29:31 >>> I'm not aware of that article.
16:29:34 I haven't seen it.
16:29:35 I can't comment.
16:29:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to bring these things
16:29:40 up for clarity before the next meeting.
16:29:44 >>> We'll be glad to respond to when I do my rebuttal.
16:29:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can just for the record, what
16:29:50 council received from the representative from the
16:29:53 alcohol coalition, that is placed in the record as
16:29:57 well, I provided a copy of that to the petitioner so
16:30:00 he had that opportunity to review that material.
16:30:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena, make the motion.
16:30:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move we continue this motion to
16:30:08 September 18th at 1:30.
16:30:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Second.
16:30:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
16:30:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Without objection, Mr. Dias?
16:30:18 >>> That's fine.
16:30:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And that the discussion will be

16:30:20 limited with those parameters you identified earlier,
16:30:20 so staff understands that.
16:30:23 Okay.
16:30:25 It's been moved and seconded.
16:30:27 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
16:30:28 Opposes?
16:30:29 Okay.
16:30:29 So moved.
16:30:31 We have another item.
16:30:35 If you can hold your discussion down.
16:30:36 Council is still in session, please.
16:30:38 Exit the chambers quietly.
16:30:40 Thank you.
16:30:44 Item 104.
16:30:46 103.
16:30:47 Did we take up 103?
16:30:49 103.
16:30:50 103.
16:30:51 103.
16:30:55 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
16:30:56 Case V 08-80 located at 5312 Avion park drive, a
16:31:01 request for a 4(COP) license for alcohol sale special

16:31:06 use permits for a large venue.
16:31:09 This is similar to a previous request is for a hotel.
16:31:13 This is for beer, wine and liquor, consumption on and
16:31:17 off premises.
16:31:18 There will be package sales in this potentially.
16:31:21 Site is located PD land development rezone back to
16:31:25 2004.
16:31:25 This is for 171-room hotel.
16:31:28 Current code requires and the site plan does provide
16:31:31 for 181 parking spaces.
16:31:33 You will note on page 1 that there are no alcoholic
16:31:36 beverage establishments within 1 that you feet.
16:31:39 No residential property within 1 that you feet.
16:31:42 There are four institutional uses within 1,000 feet.
16:31:47 Noted on page 2 of the staff report.
16:31:49 Bottom of page 2, 3, 4 and 5 are the criteria for
16:31:54 special uses.
16:31:58 The one item that I would like to clarify for page 4,
16:32:02 on page 4, is for a large venue, and this happened in
16:32:05 the previous case, is for the petitioner to state on
16:32:06 the record hours of operation.
16:32:10 I believe they put -- I'm not sure if they put it on

16:32:13 the plan yet.
16:32:13 But if they could state on the record.
16:32:15 I'm not sure if there's a restaurant in this
16:32:17 particular hotel.
16:32:17 If there's not a full kitchen, they need to put the
16:32:20 business hours of operation on the site plan. If
16:32:22 there is a full kitchen, they simply need to note that
16:32:25 on the site plan, if they could acknowledge that on
16:32:26 the record.
16:32:27 There were no objections to the request.
16:32:29 Just to remind you, this is part of the -- when it
16:32:34 came through in 2004 I think it was called McKibbins
16:32:38 site across from the airport, the frontage road,
16:32:41 Spruce and O'Brien.
16:32:43 It's a Hilton hotel in the center of the property.
16:32:46 We are available for any questions.
16:32:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is officer Miller still around?
16:32:51 Petitioner?
16:32:55 >>: My name is Carl oaths, a representative from
16:33:01 McKibbin hotel management, the owners of this
16:33:03 particular hotel.
16:33:04 To answer the questions that were put forth, would

16:33:07 just be does Vermont a full kitchen?
16:33:11 It does.
16:33:11 It has a full kitchen that provides food to the entire
16:33:14 facility within that hotel, 171 rooms.
16:33:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
16:33:18 Officer Miller?
16:33:18 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
16:33:23 department.
16:33:23 I have been sworn.
16:33:25 City of Tampa police department has in objection to
16:33:28 this wet zoning.
16:33:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in the public that's in
16:33:30 opposition?
16:33:31 Anyone here in the public in opposition?
16:33:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
16:33:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
16:33:35 (Motion carried).
16:33:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, all right.
16:33:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: For the record, this is not
16:33:41 necessary any neighborhood.
16:33:42 This is from what I see is a bunch of rental car
16:33:46 properties that are used there to store their rental

16:33:49 cars.
16:33:49 This is I think across from runway 36 left or right or
16:33:55 something.
16:33:55 I move an ordinance special use permit for alcohol
16:33:59 beverage sales large venue and making use the sale of
16:34:03 beverage change alcohol regardless of alcohol content
16:34:05 beer wine liquor 4(COP) for consumption on premises in
16:34:09 sealed containers off premises on a certain lot, plot
16:34:13 or tract of land located at 5312 Avion park drive,
16:34:17 Tampa, Florida more particularly described in section
16:34:19 2 therefore approving waivers as set forth herein
16:34:22 waiving certain restrictions as to distance based upon
16:34:25 certain findings providing for repeal of all
16:34:27 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
16:34:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by Councilwoman
16:34:33 Saul-Sena.
16:34:33 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and
16:34:39 Mulhern being absent at vote.
16:34:41 Second reading of the ordinance will be September
16:34:45 4th at 9:30 a.m.
16:34:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
16:34:51 Item 104.

16:34:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I don't believe the
16:35:00 witnesses have been sworn in for this item.
16:35:02 This is the appeal hearing.
16:35:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
16:35:06 If you have not been sworn, pleas stand and raise your
16:35:08 right hand.
16:35:10 Has everyone been sworn?
16:35:12 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Assistant city attorney.
16:35:37 Today you have before you the appeal of Variance
16:35:38 Review Board's denial of a variance in case number
16:35:43 VRB-08-at.
16:35:46 The property on this appeal is located at 4803
16:35:50 Woodmere road, and the applicants and property owners
16:35:54 are Pablo and Elise Ramon.
16:36:05 One was to reduce the rear yard set back from 20 feet
16:36:08 to 3 feet.
16:36:08 The other was to reduce the east side yard setback
16:36:11 from 7 feet to 1 foot.
16:36:13 And the third was to increase the accessory structure
16:36:16 height from 15 feet to 25 feet.
16:36:21 This is all in order to construct a second story
16:36:24 addition to an existing garage.

16:36:26 The VRB denied the variance request by a vote of 6 to
16:36:31 1, and the basis that the applicants did not
16:36:34 demonstrate the hardship criteria set forth in Tampa
16:36:37 city code section 17.5-74.
16:36:43 I would remind City Council there can be no new
16:36:47 evidence presented to you today and your actions shall
16:36:48 be solely based upon the record created during the
16:36:51 variance review board hearing.
16:36:55 If neighbors are or concerned individuals testify
16:36:58 before you today on this appeal, I don't think there
16:37:01 are, they must have testified at the variance review
16:37:04 board and their testimony must be limited to what they
16:37:06 testified at the VRB hearing.
16:37:12 This council shall determine whether the decision was
16:37:15 supported by competent, substantial evidence, whether
16:37:18 the applicants were afforded due process, and whether
16:37:22 the variance review board observed the essential
16:37:25 requirements of the law.
16:37:25 Now at this time I'll turn the podium over to ELISE
16:37:32 Ruiz Ramon to present her appeal.
16:37:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I would like for council's
16:37:36 own reference, I provided copies of the standard of

16:37:45 review, and I am also providing copies of section
16:37:48 17.574, which are the hardship criteria.
16:37:55 >>> Thank you.
16:37:58 >>> Any name is Elisi Ruiz Ramon, 4803 west Woodmere
16:38:09 road.
16:38:09 I have been sworn in.
16:38:10 I am here to present our appeal to the Variance Review
16:38:12 Board, dated June 10, 2008.
16:38:16 Reasons for my appeal are as follows: Reasons for
16:38:18 denial were arbitrary and capricious, the variance
16:38:22 board did not address issues pertaining to current
16:38:22 building hardships associated with the existing
16:38:27 elevation and setbacks of the structure, variance
16:38:28 board also did not take into account the presence of
16:38:29 other two story detached garage buildings which
16:38:31 encroach on setbacks either previously built or under
16:38:33 construction in the immediate Beach Park neighborhood.
16:38:36 I would like to thank the City Council for their time
16:38:38 in hearing this appeal.
16:38:39 The appeal sounds complex.
16:38:41 It's actually quite straightforward.
16:38:43 We would like to add a partial second story to our

16:38:45 existing three-car garage.
16:38:46 We are restrained from doing so as many of our other
16:38:49 neighbors in Beach Park have done due to the elevation
16:38:51 of our home.
16:38:52 In order to be granted a height variance, we also need
16:38:55 to reapply for the current setbacks of the structure.
16:38:58 In effect, need to ask for the building to be placed
16:39:00 exactly where it was previously built in 1998.
16:39:04 The setsbacks applied for on the variance are the ones
16:39:06 that we currently have for the structure.
16:39:10 Asking for them again is a bit of a formality.
16:39:12 Only changes that we are seeking to make to the garage
16:39:14 is to increase a portion of the roof height by 10
16:39:17 feet.
16:39:18 We have a long narrow lot.
16:39:22 I have a picture on the overhead, which necessitated
16:39:24 the building of a detached garage at the rear of the
16:39:26 property.
16:39:27 You can see it from the photo.
16:39:32 It is rather wedged into the back corner of the lot
16:39:35 with a triangle open space.
16:39:42 I would like to take a minute to clarify the actual

16:39:44 measurements of our easement.
16:39:46 I was not questioned about this detail during the
16:39:48 variance hearing.
16:39:49 However, it's important to verify the measurement for
16:39:54 this record.
16:39:54 In the exhibits that we applied for in the variance
16:39:59 petition, we applied for 20, 3, 7 and 1.
16:40:05 It actually not the case.
16:40:07 The side yard setback is actually 2-foot 6, not one as
16:40:13 seen through the lot.
16:40:20 The garage wall appears to sit on the side property.
16:40:23 In fact the adjacent property is ours.
16:40:26 That would be the ground just below the eaves and
16:40:30 gutters of the roof.
16:40:31 And I'm unclear as to why the garage was set in this
16:40:34 manner.
16:40:34 However, it may have to do with the placement of some
16:40:36 oaks and some power lines in this area.
16:40:38 So what I am saying is effectively the corner lot line
16:40:41 goes from here down here, the setback of 2.61.
16:40:53 The petition for variance contains five points.
16:40:56 First, the alleged hardships for difficulties are

16:40:59 unique and singular with respect to the property, or
16:41:01 with respect to the structure building thereon as the
16:41:04 person requesting the variance and not those in common
16:41:08 with other structures or buildings similarly located.
16:41:11 True.
16:41:11 The difficulties we face are unique and reflect our
16:41:15 property and our respect for the structure in
16:41:17 question.
16:41:18 As I stated in my response, our existing site is at 10
16:41:22 feet above sea level.
16:41:25 The variance is necessary to increase storage space
16:41:28 above the garage.
16:41:30 Code currently allows for Heights 15 feet, and in so
16:41:33 we should not be penalized for having a newer
16:41:35 structure with better subprotection.
16:41:38 The form does not allow much detail.
16:41:43 Our property was built up in 1998 to the elevation of
16:41:48 ten feet.
16:41:48 Average elevation of homes in Beach Park is just under
16:41:51 five feet for detached garage such as ours the height
16:41:54 restriction in the building code means our structure
16:41:57 height cannot exceed its current level of 15 feet.

16:42:00 If we lived on an average lot an elevation of five
16:42:03 feet, we would have been able to build up an extra
16:42:05 five feet of hate into the attic of the garage without
16:42:07 a variance.
16:42:09 However, the buildup of our lot has restricted use of
16:42:13 our detached structure in our view unfairly.
16:42:15 The practical difficulty is unique and singular with
16:42:18 respect to our property, we have neighbors close by
16:42:21 who have structures without Heights greater than ours.
16:42:24 They simply started at a lower elevation.
16:42:27 The system does not reward the building of safer
16:42:29 homes.
16:42:30 The practical difficulty of us doing something similar
16:42:33 with respect to the structure, we have a long narrow
16:42:35 lot which has an acute triangular corner which
16:42:39 necessitated the placement of the garage at the rear
16:42:41 of the property of an odd angle to the property line.
16:42:45 Variance board did not address the central point of
16:42:47 our appeal, mainly the constraints brought about by
16:42:49 the elevation of our home, nor was I questioned about
16:42:53 this point during hearing.
16:42:54 Second, the alleged hardship for practical

16:42:56 difficulties which would result from failure ran to
16:42:59 the inability to use the land in question for any
16:43:01 reasonable legal use which is consistent with the
16:43:03 surrounding properties, and in conformity with the
16:43:06 prov