TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, September 18, 2008
9:00 a.m. session
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09:06:29 [Sounding gavel]
09:06:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
09:06:35 Chair will recognize be the honorable Charlie Miranda.
09:06:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It's my pleasure this morning to
09:06:39 introduce a very lovely young lady who is going to do
09:06:42 the invocation.
09:06:44 Ladies and gentlemen, we have this morning with us a
09:06:45 very humble person who only wants to be introduced as
09:06:50 an employee of the City of Tampa but knowing me I just
09:06:52 can't do that.
09:06:53 She's working with the safety economics planner of our
09:06:57 human resource department and risk management
09:06:59 However, that's not all that we want to say.
09:07:03 Miss Janice London is married and the mother of one
09:07:06 daughter, also she always has a big smile, and her
09:07:11 face is always glowing, and she's willing to do a lot
09:07:14 more than her job description.
09:07:16 She also has a precious 22 month old grandson.
09:07:21 Ms. London is an avid bowler, enjoys shopping, and I
09:07:25 can tell because I see her in a lot of malls and doing
09:07:30 cross word puzzles.
09:07:31 She's also involved in several national and community
09:07:35 She has a true love for helping and encouraging
09:07:39 And recently celebrated, I can't believe, it's 30
09:07:42 years, but she looks like she's 35 -- years of
09:07:46 employment with the City of Tampa.
09:07:47 Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Janice London.
09:07:53 Please rise and remain standing for the pledge of
09:07:59 >>> Janice London: Good morning.
09:08:04 Would you please bow your heads?
09:08:05 Heavenly father, I stand before you in humble
09:08:09 submission to your word.
09:08:10 We pray this morning for our city and its surrounding
09:08:14 Hear our prayers today for us to become a united and
09:08:18 loving people.
09:08:19 We pray for guidance and protection for our president,
09:08:22 our governor, our mayor, City Council, and all the
09:08:30 Grant us a fruitful economy born of justice and
09:08:34 Protect our military men and women who are fighting
09:08:37 wars in many place as round our nation.
09:08:41 Please bring them home soon.
09:08:43 And the poor and the desolate.
09:08:47 We ask you to protect us from every harm.
09:08:50 In the name of Jesus, amen.
09:08:55 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:08:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much this morning.
09:09:14 Can we have roll call?
09:09:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:09:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:09:20 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:09:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:09:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:09:25 We have two memorandums here, one from councilman
09:09:28 Dingfelder, says I will be out of town on Thursday,
09:09:32 September 18, 2008, therefore I will be absent
09:09:35 African-American the meeting, September 18 City
09:09:38 Council meeting.
09:09:39 Thank you.
09:09:39 Then the other one is from Councilwoman Gwen Miller.
09:09:45 Please be advised I will be absent from the 9-18-08
09:09:51 Thursday session due to an out of town engagement.
09:09:54 I have asked councilman Charlie Miranda to introduce
09:09:59 the lady to give the invocation on the 18th.
09:10:02 Thank you for your attention to this matter.
09:10:04 This is from Councilwoman Gwendolyn Miller.
09:10:09 Also submitted one early departure this afternoon as
09:10:13 well so just want us to be aware of that.
09:10:16 We'll talk a little more as we go along because we are
09:10:19 going to be down to about four council persons for
09:10:21 this afternoon.
09:10:22 It is my understanding that Councilwoman Saul-Sena
09:10:24 will be the chair in the afternoon meeting by virtue
09:10:27 of the council's rule.
09:10:31 Approval of the agenda.
09:10:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The first item is item number 58, a
09:10:43 substitute is being provided, and we have recommended
09:10:47 to the legal department here if council wishes to hear
09:10:50 what the changes are in the substitution.
09:10:52 My understanding is that an agreement was being
09:10:55 negotiated up through yesterday evening.
09:10:57 If council wishes to have that discussed, you have it
09:11:00 in front of you.
09:11:02 If council wishes to have that discussed you can pull
09:11:05 it from discussion.
09:11:06 Otherwise on the consent docket number 58.
09:11:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I talked with Cindy Miller about it,
09:11:13 so I want you to be aware we had some discussion and
09:11:17 they were working late but we do have a substitution.
09:11:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
09:11:21 Do you have two requests.
09:11:22 You can take them up now, council.
09:11:24 They are both with Cindy Miller, one to reschedule a
09:11:29 workshop on affordable housing to a later date.
09:11:35 Don't know when council would like to move that to.
09:11:39 You don't have a workshop in November or December
09:11:46 So that would be, I guess, the January workshop, would
09:11:49 be the first one available.
09:11:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We can move it to January.
09:11:57 That's fine.
09:11:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So may we remove that from the agenda
09:12:01 then and put that on the January workshop?
09:12:04 >> What's the other request?
09:12:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: To schedule a 30 minute workshop on
09:12:07 October 23rd, 2008, and you can use the 10:30
09:12:10 time, to brief council on the status of the Tampa
09:12:14 comprehensive plan and the Orc report.
09:12:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's do both motions at the same
09:12:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved to reschedule the one from
09:12:21 the 23rd to January and then to schedule the comp
09:12:24 plan workshop on the 23rd.
09:12:26 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a problem with item 58.
09:12:34 My inclination would be to continue this, because this
09:12:39 is a huge document that I have not had a chance to
09:12:42 look at, at all, so I think that at least it should be
09:12:48 pulled off the consent agenda.
09:12:50 But I would prefer to have it continued to our next
09:12:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman, my
09:13:01 understanding -- and we can confirm this -- but -- and
09:13:07 I can't confirm this -- but there may be a time
09:13:09 constraint on it with regard to when it has to be
09:13:13 I don't know the answer to that.
09:13:14 But if you would like to pull it for discussion
09:13:16 purposes and then decide what council wants to do,
09:13:19 that's possible.
09:13:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think Mr. Rotella is involved with
09:13:24 the Westshore community development, and Councilwoman
09:13:30 Mulhern wants to continue the item to another date and
09:13:32 I understand that's a time constraint.
09:13:38 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to hear what the time
09:13:40 constraint is, and if it's not -- if there is not an
09:13:44 actual time constraint I would rather --
09:13:46 Why don't he would come back to that item, since we
09:13:48 have a motion we'll come back.
09:13:50 There's a motion, moved by Councilwoman Saul-Sena,
09:13:52 seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:13:57 It's so moved and ordered.
09:13:59 It's on the workshop, 30-minute workshop on the comp
09:14:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, item 74 is a resolution
09:14:07 substitution to correct a typographical error in the
09:14:10 funding date.
09:14:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
09:14:13 >> Second.
09:14:14 (Motion carried).
09:14:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item 105 is a memo from assistant
09:14:18 city attorney Jan McLean to have the item continued
09:14:22 from 60 to 90 days at council's pleasure.
09:14:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like to have 90 days.
09:14:27 >> Second.
09:14:28 (Motion carried).
09:14:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And with regard to items 111 and 112,
09:14:35 they cannot be heard.
09:14:40 Item 111, V-08-81 has been administratively
09:14:46 rescheduled to October 16 at 130 p.m. A motion is
09:14:51 required on item 112 for November 20 at 130 p.m.
09:14:55 That's WZ 08-109.
09:15:03 >> So moved.
09:15:04 >> Second.
09:15:05 (Motion carried)
09:15:06 >> Made by Councilman Miranda, seconded by
09:15:06 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:15:08 >> And the only other item, council, is item 52 that I
09:15:12 believe Councilwoman Saul-Sena is moving to highlight
09:15:14 that particular issue and you can take that up when the
09:15:17 item comes.
09:15:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 52, okay.
09:15:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you want staff present or it's not
09:15:25 necessary, is that correct?
09:15:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's not necessary.
09:15:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other items need to be pulled?
09:15:30 Let's look at item 58 real quick.
09:15:33 >>MARY MULHERN: I have some other items.
09:15:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, pardon me.
09:15:36 Go ahead.
09:15:36 >>MARY MULHERN: I would just like a quick explanation
09:15:39 on 14 of what the additional change of the 4 million
09:15:49 is for.
09:15:50 And number 16, I'd like to hear from contract
09:15:55 administration why this is going to the third lowest
09:16:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 16 or 14.
09:16:16 Which one is it?
09:16:18 >>MARY MULHERN: 16 and 14.
09:16:21 Let me make sure.
09:16:22 I think that's it.
09:16:31 I think that's it.
09:16:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I just wish to
09:16:36 express my feelings on these things that we pulled.
09:16:38 Not only in my committee but any committee.
09:16:40 I'm happy that we are pulling them.
09:16:42 However, we have set rules and regulations for
09:16:45 everything we do.
09:16:47 What can you do, what can you not do?
09:16:49 You have to swear in the public, you have to do this,
09:16:51 you have to do that.
09:16:51 But for ourselves we have no regulations.
09:16:55 I have spoken to many people in the community, and let
09:16:58 me tell you what the feedback I get.
09:17:01 If you are going to pull something, tell that chair of
09:17:06 whatever committee it is why you are pulling it, who
09:17:09 have you talked to, what have you done, what
09:17:11 conversation you carried on with that department head,
09:17:14 and I'm trying to expedite the council's work.
09:17:17 But to simply say, I want to pull, is not enough to
09:17:20 satisfy me, let alone the public.
09:17:27 You have to have a system saying I spoke to this, I
09:17:29 don't understand that.
09:17:30 That I can comprehend and understand.
09:17:32 But to simply say that I want to pull because one is
09:17:36 an amount of money -- and this has happened every
09:17:39 meeting I come to it happens, and it's usually in my
09:17:41 committee, public works has the greatest
09:17:44 responsibility of funds that are expended in public
09:17:47 But what I'm saying is, tell me, tell the public who
09:17:52 you spoke to, what was the explanation.
09:17:56 You know, these things are given.
09:18:03 So if you haven't spoken to a department head, or if
09:18:05 you have spoken, I can answer both of them, but I'm
09:18:09 But what I'm going to say is, let's get together and
09:18:12 find out, you know, these things come up Monday.
09:18:16 Today is Thursday.
09:18:17 The telephone works.
09:18:20 The offices are open.
09:18:21 Go speak to these people and find out what's going on.
09:18:25 So that's the only suggestion.
09:18:27 I'm not being critical of anyone here.
09:18:29 But what we are doing is we are spending hours upon
09:18:32 hours that we could be doing something else for the
09:18:35 public, Mr. Chairman.
09:18:36 And if we want to take that as a rule change, maybe we
09:18:40 We have rule changes here for everything.
09:18:47 That's only a suggestion.
09:18:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would suggest that that can be a
09:18:52 matter of discussion at our strategic plan or
09:18:55 something like that.
09:18:56 That would be the more appropriate time to discuss it.
09:18:59 It's on our agenda today so I don't want to get into a
09:19:01 long debate.
09:19:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I would just like to say that there
09:19:05 are like 97 budget items on this agenda, and my
09:19:09 constituents appreciate it when I get more explanation
09:19:16 when there's appropriations and would like to know
09:19:18 what they are.
09:19:19 And it's just not -- there's not enough time in three
09:19:23 days for anybody to go over all of this.
09:19:28 I would have had to spend the last three weeks before
09:19:34 I could even figure out.
09:19:36 And of course we don't have the agenda three weeks
09:19:38 ahead of time.
09:19:39 We have three days of meetings every day, and it's not
09:19:42 humanly possible.
09:19:44 And, you know, I really got to tell you, I cut down my
09:19:47 list of things I was going to pull by a lot.
09:19:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to adopt the agenda with the
09:19:54 changes that have been discussed.
09:19:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I must be an
09:20:00 exceptional human being, because not only can I read
09:20:04 mine, I can read all others in three days and I can
09:20:06 make those phone calls.
09:20:07 This is not an excuse.
09:20:09 We have got to change the system that we have.
09:20:12 On 16, some people that said they didn't know what
09:20:16 they were voting on have been advised what that was.
09:20:19 That's a third low bidder and I can tell you why, but
09:20:23 I'm not.
09:20:26 >>MARY MULHERN: Well no, one was able to tell me and I
09:20:28 did ask so that's fine.
09:20:31 >> They did tell you but I asked the gents this
09:20:34 morning, but go on.
09:20:35 >>MARY MULHERN: No one told me.
09:20:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, we need to move.
09:20:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move that we adopt the --
09:20:41 Is there a second?
09:20:43 >> Second.
09:20:45 (Motion carried).
09:20:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, we have a number of items that
09:20:47 have been pulled.
09:20:49 I thought we were going to have only 58 but now we
09:20:53 have several so we have to follow the regular agenda.
09:20:55 I was going to get it out of the way, but we need to
09:20:58 follow the regular agenda, okay?
09:21:01 We have public comment at this time.
09:21:02 We have allocated 30 minutes for persons who wish to
09:21:07 address council on items on the agenda, if you want to
09:21:09 address council you may come forward at this time,
09:21:12 state your name and address for the record.
09:21:21 >>> Good morning, Mr. Chair, and everyone.
09:21:24 My name is Laura Bell Harris, my address is 1515 west
09:21:31 union street, Tampa, Florida 33607.
09:21:36 That is a public housing development known as the Mary
09:21:40 McCloud Bethune high-rise home.
09:21:45 Now, I was at a Tampa housing authority board of
09:21:47 commission meeting yesterday, and that is the reason
09:21:53 why I am here today.
09:21:54 There was a young woman who presented herself, and she
09:21:58 presented herself in tears.
09:22:01 She lives in North Boulevard homes, and she explained
09:22:05 to me that she would not be able to come to this
09:22:07 meeting today because she is a single parent, and she
09:22:11 has to work.
09:22:13 But there is a particular police officer who is being
09:22:22 somewhat out of character, I would say, as a police
09:22:26 This young woman's children's father went to their
09:22:31 school to pick up her children because she was
09:22:34 working, and this police officer, who is well-known by
09:22:39 the name of officer dusty Rhodes, accosted the young
09:22:44 man simply because he was not a familiar face in the
09:22:48 community, and he slammed the young man to the ground,
09:22:55 in front of his children.
09:22:57 I don't know anything more than that, except that when
09:23:01 that mother presented herself yesterday in the Tampa
09:23:05 housing authority board of commission meeting, she was
09:23:08 in tears.
09:23:09 She confessed that she knew what it was like to be in
09:23:13 prison and what it was like to be at home.
09:23:18 And she is one of many who have that same complaint
09:23:22 about that particular police officer.
09:23:25 So I'm just wondering, is officer dusty Rhodes abusing
09:23:30 his privileges as a police officer?
09:23:34 Or is the community at large bearing false witness
09:23:38 against officer dusty Rhodes?
09:23:42 I beg for whoever is responsible or capable to look
09:23:47 into these matters on behalf of the citizens at North
09:23:51 Boulevard homes.
09:23:53 I am aware that there is a huge amount of drug
09:23:57 activity and other illicit actions going on, not only
09:24:02 in North Boulevard, but all over the City of Tampa.
09:24:07 I am concerned about the treatment that the citizens
09:24:12 are crying out about at the hands of this single
09:24:16 police officer named dusty Rhodes.
09:24:20 Thank you for your time.
09:24:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, what I would like for to us
09:24:28 do, I would like to send over for action to take a
09:24:34 look at the situation.
09:24:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
09:24:37 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I think it's good
09:24:39 that she came here to us.
09:24:40 But I think it's her job to call the police
09:24:43 department, speak to the chief of police.
09:24:44 He controls the police department.
09:24:48 Of course, the mayor is the chief's boss.
09:24:50 Maybe that should be taken.
09:24:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yeah, but we are also elected by the
09:24:56 people, our constituents, to refer over to the
09:24:58 administration any concern that we have and ask for an
09:25:02 That's under the charter.
09:25:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to make a formal
09:25:07 motion that the chairman write a letter to the mayor
09:25:09 requesting that the administration investigate this
09:25:11 situation, because we certainly want to protect our
09:25:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:25:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
09:25:18 (Motion carried).
09:25:19 >>> Good morning.
09:25:23 My name is Joyce WIGGS.
09:25:30 It's ironic that I live at the same complex that miss
09:25:38 Harris lives at 1515 union street.
09:25:43 Even though I am here on a Tampa Police Department
09:25:47 matter, we are not here regarding the same matter.
09:25:52 I am here regarding another police officer.
09:25:59 I would really like to have an answer to the question,
09:26:02 what is a random tag search?
09:26:08 What is the criteria for random tag searches, or
09:26:16 putting just anybody's tag into a computer and coming
09:26:19 back with just the name of the owner of the car,
09:26:27 This happened to a young man, and I watched a mother
09:26:32 yesterday, in a courtroom, who cried desperately
09:26:38 because her child was stopped driving a car by a
09:26:43 police officer that was no reason.
09:26:47 I mean, he wasn't playing a boom box, he wasn't
09:26:52 exceeding the speed limit, he wasn't doing anything
09:26:55 illegal except that his tag number was put into a
09:27:00 system, and he just stopped the car.
09:27:07 I have called the Tampa Police Department to try to
09:27:11 find out the answer to that question, what is the
09:27:15 criteria for random?
09:27:20 I do not have that answer.
09:27:21 It was not answered by the police officer yesterday.
09:27:25 I heard the police officer in a courtroom when asked a
09:27:32 question deliberately -- and the attorney almost
09:27:35 basically called him a liar.
09:27:37 I mean, he had to restrain himself to keep from saying
09:27:41 that he was lying, because everyone who heard that
09:27:46 police officer knew immediately that what he was
09:27:50 saying was a lie.
09:27:52 I knew nothing about the case I was just sitting there
09:27:56 And in my own heart in, my own spirit, I knew that
09:28:00 everything he said was a lie.
09:28:05 What is the criteria for random?
09:28:12 Does the police department just have carte blanche,
09:28:15 they can stop anybody at any time for whatever they
09:28:19 think in their mind?
09:28:23 He had not run the tag until after he stopped him.
09:28:28 There was no reason for him to stop him.
09:28:32 And like that mother that Ms. Harris is speaking of,
09:28:37 this young man had his children in the car.
09:28:41 It was just ludicrous the things that I heard that
09:28:45 happened to that young man on that one particular
09:28:49 So if someone could please -- I don't know where to
09:28:55 I've called the police department to try to get an
09:28:58 answer and I have not.
09:28:59 (Bell sounds).
09:29:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, ma'am.
09:29:01 >>> Thank you so much.
09:29:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I don't know what
09:29:06 random means, but it could be the 5th or 10th
09:29:13 or 20th car that I checked.
09:29:14 Let me say that I experienced the same thing that this
09:29:16 lady experienced, and guess what, I had three vehicles
09:29:19 at that time.
09:29:20 I had a little '92 Honda, my '84 brand new '84 --
09:29:27 brand new at the year that I bought in the 2000 --
09:29:32 Cadillac and another little vehicle that I had.
09:29:34 And I put the wrong tags on the wrong car.
09:29:38 I came out of a service station, and I had a random
09:29:41 Guess what happened what happened to me.
09:29:43 I got a ticket.
09:29:45 I'm not immune.
09:29:46 None of us are immune to the good police work.
09:29:49 We have only heard one side of the story and possibly
09:29:52 it's all true, but I don't know that.
09:29:54 I was stopped.
09:29:56 I went to court.
09:29:58 I showed the honorable judge the three titles, the
09:30:03 three tags, and the three cars I own.
09:30:07 Suspended sentence.
09:30:09 The police have to have certain tools to do their
09:30:13 I can also tell you that that same '84 Cadillac was
09:30:19 I hadn't driven that Honda prelude.
09:30:23 In fact it was -- I gave the car away because it was
09:30:27 bad luck for me.
09:30:28 I really did.
09:30:30 So I got the car.
09:30:33 I charged up the battery.
09:30:34 I came to City Hall and I said, let me blow it up
09:30:39 Thursday night.
09:30:39 So I got up the expressway and exited on Busch
09:30:43 I got some gas.
09:30:44 I drove down Nebraska where I got stopped and I'll
09:30:47 never forget the car number, number 407 by the police
09:30:50 I wasn't speeding.
09:30:51 I wasn't swaying on the road.
09:30:53 I wasn't doing anything.
09:30:55 I got stopped by a police officer, and I rolled down
09:30:59 the window.
09:31:00 He said, let me have your registration.
09:31:04 I gave to the him.
09:31:05 I gave him my driver's license.
09:31:06 And here's why I made the mistake.
09:31:08 So he's got my name.
09:31:10 He's got everything.
09:31:10 He tells me, who are you?
09:31:12 And I tell him, officer, evidently in training school
09:31:18 they haven't taught you how to read.
09:31:19 If you have my picture and you have got the
09:31:21 identification, you are asking me who am I?
09:31:24 I'm going to ask you, who are you?
09:31:26 So I almost got arrested.
09:31:30 And that's all I can tell you.
09:31:32 I was stopped for no reason other than at the end I
09:31:37 got a message that I had a suspicious-looking car.
09:31:40 I don't know what a 1992 Honda prelude has that's
09:31:46 suspicious, but I understand that they have to do
09:31:52 certain things to have the continuation of crime
09:31:56 brought down in this city, and they have done an
09:31:58 excellent job.
09:31:59 So when we do these things and ask, we have also got
09:32:03 to ask the other side of the question is, what is the
09:32:06 crime rate?
09:32:07 What's going on here?
09:32:08 We must have more than just one blanket thing on good
09:32:13 And the first lady who spoke, spoke of a variety of
09:32:17 things that make a neighborhood what it should be.
09:32:19 And she's very well informed, I can tell you that.
09:32:22 But we should ask more than that.
09:32:23 We should ask for that precise area what's happening
09:32:30 Maybe there's a reason.
09:32:31 I certainly don't agree with somebody throwing down
09:32:33 the father of the children down, but we have to find
09:32:36 out why this happened.
09:32:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
09:32:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:32:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:32:44 >>MOSES KNOTT, JR.: I resign at 2902 East Ellicott
09:32:49 street three nights a week.
09:32:50 Then I thank God for his grace and his mercy.
09:32:55 Especially right now.
09:33:00 Could have been right here.
09:33:02 I don't know why people go around and ask like they
09:33:04 don't know what time it is, but it's rough out there
09:33:07 But I want to speak -- I was going to speak about
09:33:10 something else but there's something that went by, and
09:33:15 this thing about a random stop.
09:33:18 And I'm sitting over there.
09:33:20 What is a random stop?
09:33:22 I don't know what a random stop is.
09:33:25 So I have been stopped.
09:33:27 But the one thing that got me, my son is a military
09:33:31 He's been in over 21 years now.
09:33:33 But this boy is clean cut.
09:33:36 He come home, and he's riding home with some of his
09:33:38 friends come down 34th street, this is about
09:33:41 seven, eight years ago, and all of a sudden the
09:33:44 police, in the country.
09:33:51 In the black neighborhood have been look like they are
09:33:54 a drug dealer.
09:33:55 And that guy gets a gold medal but they pull these
09:34:04 people all the time, I mean all the time, and put you
09:34:07 in jail, totally unlegal sometimes.
09:34:10 But my son right now is with a couple of his friends,
09:34:13 and that boy come home, they was taken out of the car,
09:34:17 thrown on the ground, back of the car, and said what
09:34:23 we did, what we did? They looked like a drug dealer.
09:34:26 So the reason for the stop was they looked like a drug
09:34:29 Yes, it's a serious problem.
09:34:31 And it's all over the country. I watch Police Story.
09:34:32 I watch a lot of TV, but educational TV.
09:34:37 I watch the Police Story every Saturday night come on
09:34:40 and I sit there and watch, and it's like Mr. Charlie
09:34:43 Miranda said awhile ago, you don't look right.
09:34:46 And years ago, you know, anybody ride with me, I'm a
09:34:53 demolition man and wear a hard hat.
09:34:57 So I kept three or four hard hats in my car.
09:35:00 The police will not pull you if you put a hard hat.
09:35:05 Put a hard hat on the police won't pull you.
09:35:07 Even if you are driving a big truck.
09:35:09 But if you drive a car with gold rims on it jacked up,
09:35:12 anything, you know, that looks like you are a drug
09:35:16 dealer, you are going to get stopped.
09:35:18 And they might pull 20 innocent guys, but they get
09:35:28 three or four guys in there and that is critical.
09:35:34 Not here.
09:35:35 All over the country.
09:35:36 And these police get a gold medal, like I said, make a
09:35:43 big hit coming up behind somebody just stopping them.
09:35:45 But like I say, it needs to be stopped but if they
09:35:48 quit doing that they'll go out of business because
09:35:50 they won't be able to arrest nobody.
09:35:52 But that's how they make their living.
09:35:54 But I feel sorry for people living in these
09:35:57 neighborhoods you know, the children go to school and
09:36:00 Like the woman said awhile ago, I agree with that.
09:36:03 I had a bad thing happen in my family not long ago.
09:36:06 Police put my daughter in jail, about trespassing.
09:36:10 I talk about this thing all the time.
09:36:12 They put thousands and thousands of blacks in jail for
09:36:16 trespassing and open container.
09:36:19 Totally unlegal.
09:36:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Knott.
09:36:23 Anyone else want to address council?
09:36:25 Anyone else?
09:36:26 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:36:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to amend my motion,
09:36:29 which my previous motion about the report on the
09:36:37 individual officer, to expand it to share what their
09:36:41 policies have been in the area that we are discussing,
09:36:45 which is the area of O -- and get a report back.
09:36:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, been moved and seconded we are
09:36:53 amending the previous motion.
09:36:54 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:36:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Did I put a date for that?
09:37:00 30 days will give them plenty of time because that
09:37:03 would be our meeting October 23rd.
09:37:12 October 16th under staff report.
09:37:14 Thank you.
09:37:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's deal with item 28, though pulled
09:37:18 items so we can get people out of here, okay?
09:37:21 Item 58.
09:37:26 Mrs. Miller, do you want to have staff, someone come
09:37:28 address item 58 for Councilwoman Mulhern?
09:37:30 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Just by way of introduction, I
09:37:35 wasn't really sure what the concern with this item was
09:37:39 but we did have a substitution.
09:37:41 And the reason for that is that we have been working
09:37:44 on these documents.
09:37:46 There's some time constraints, went ahead and put it
09:37:49 on the agenda, knowing that we were probably going to
09:37:52 have some minor changes.
09:37:54 The business terms haven't changed significantly since
09:37:57 we put it on the agenda.
09:37:59 These are the proper documents now.
09:38:01 I can have Jorge Martin from our office that worked on
09:38:06 that go through what the changes are if that's your
09:38:09 pleasure or have the other party in the transaction
09:38:12 explain the transaction in detail.
09:38:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I believe Councilwoman Mulhern has
09:38:17 some questions.
09:38:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
09:38:20 I think it's too much for us to go over the changes.
09:38:27 So I wonder if we can just continue this to our next
09:38:32 meeting. If there's some way we can vote on this
09:38:34 without having the time to read it.
09:38:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Why don't we allow Mr. Rotella to come
09:38:42 I had a discussion with Ms. Miller on it.
09:38:45 Mr. Rotella may want to explain the term con -- time
09:38:49 And it's my understanding the document will change,
09:38:53 it's for greater protection of the city but anyway
09:38:55 I'll let them explain it to you, Ms. Mulhern.
09:39:01 >>CINDY MILLER: Director growth management and
09:39:04 development services.
09:39:06 Relative to the changes, the changes that are
09:39:07 requested from the document you had from last week to
09:39:11 this week is in the greater interest of protection of
09:39:14 the city.
09:39:16 It was so that we would make sure that our money would
09:39:18 not be spent by the -- in the project until such time
09:39:22 as private money had come into the transaction.
09:39:25 So that is what changes we had made, is with excellent
09:39:30 legal advice from Mr. Martin.
09:39:32 It was making sure the city had greater security so
09:39:34 our money wouldn't go first and have a potentially
09:39:37 incomplete project.
09:39:38 Not that we anticipate that happening but making sure
09:39:41 that that would be there.
09:39:42 As to the deadline, if you do want to hear from Mr.
09:39:46 Rotella in greater detail, there is a closing that he
09:39:50 needs to make with both his private lender as well as
09:39:53 with another state grant that he would be getting --
09:39:57 and I'm sorry, I don't remember what the acronym
09:40:00 stands for but a grant directly from the state to the
09:40:03 project which is not through the state.
09:40:05 Those documents have to be executed in the next few
09:40:08 weeks, so therefore this needs to be in place so that
09:40:11 can occur.
09:40:11 And that in general is the reason for the time
09:40:16 And as I mentioned, why we are changing the actual
09:40:22 document was for greater protection of the city's
09:40:25 grant resources.
09:40:31 >>MARY MULHERN: If we could postpone this by a week
09:40:37 and take it up so we would have time to review the
09:40:41 Is there any reason we can't do that?
09:40:45 >> Let me suggest, this is the property that the
09:40:50 county gave and we had explicit involvement with this
09:40:52 all along.
09:40:55 I was working with Mr. Rotella when I was with the
09:40:58 county commission on this project and been before us
09:41:00 on numerous occasions, as I recollect, is that right?
09:41:05 >>CINDY MILLER: Director.
09:41:06 Of growth management.
09:41:08 It has been before you as a rezoning.
09:41:10 It has also been in your hearings as to federal and
09:41:12 state funding, that this particular amount was being
09:41:17 And it also was briefed to you from our workshops for
09:41:21 affordable housing.
09:41:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
09:41:23 And that was my intent was to highlight affordable
09:41:25 housing project that is moving forward in the
09:41:28 Westshore area there, actually from spruce down to
09:41:36 Lincoln Gardens in that area, which will complement
09:41:39 that area significantly.
09:41:42 I would hate to see us delay this project.
09:41:46 From my understanding, it will cause some harm in
09:41:50 receiving additional state funding.
09:41:53 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, that's what I would like to hear
09:41:55 from staff, or from Mr. Rotella.
09:42:01 >>RON ROTELLA: Council members, good morning.
09:42:03 I just want to reiterate, at least from my
09:42:06 perspective, where we are today.
09:42:08 As I understand, you have had the loan agreement for a
09:42:14 week, and none of the business points have changed at
09:42:20 What's happened in the last two or three days is the
09:42:23 City of Tampa, not the developer, has made some minor
09:42:27 modifications to the agreement to put the city in a
09:42:31 more secure position.
09:42:32 I certainly don't have any objection to that.
09:42:34 I don't think you should have any objection to that.
09:42:38 But to answer Ms. Mulhern's question specifically, why
09:42:42 do we have this time constraint?
09:42:44 I have to close on the CWHIP loan which is the
09:42:49 Community Workforce Housing Initiative Program, that's
09:42:51 $4 million from the State of Florida, by October the
09:42:55 If I don't, then I have to request an extension of that
09:42:59 That will cost me $40,000.
09:43:01 It will cost the project $40,000 which means the
09:43:04 housing prices go up.
09:43:06 And we have a construction loan we have to close before
09:43:09 October 11, and the private lender, who in this case is
09:43:16 Ameribank, wants to make sure all the public financing
09:43:18 is in place before they'll issue the commitment letter
09:43:24 on the construction loan.
09:43:25 Ms. Mulhern, I apologize for the position you're in.
09:43:31 I know that you feel you have a little rushed on this.
09:43:36 I feel I am.
09:43:37 I think this should give you some comfort that these
09:43:40 changes that are being presented to you are not from
09:43:45 the Community Development Corporation or the developer,
09:43:48 it's coming from your legal department, which is
09:43:50 basically fine tuning a document that you have had for
09:43:54 a week but puts the city in a more secure position.
09:43:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
09:44:00 >> I would precious setting the time frames set by the
09:44:04 prime lender and the State of Florida.
09:44:05 I hope I answered your questions honestly and
09:44:10 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
09:44:11 I'll move and just ask that the administration -- I
09:44:17 understand the position that the developer is in and
09:44:21 the times we are in, the urgency of this, so I'll move
09:44:26 I would just like to have more than -- I don't know,
09:44:33 what, 20 minutes notice when we have a change.
09:44:36 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second.
09:44:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I know that we are putting off our
09:44:45 discussion about homeless until until January because
09:44:48 we don't have a meeting for when it's scheduled in
09:44:52 October and I want to commend Mr. Rotella because what
09:44:55 you are doing in creating these affordable agreements
09:44:57 is also agreeing to use some of the county's money and
09:44:59 some of the state money, is exactly what we need to do
09:45:05 times 100 to begin to meet this community's needs in
09:45:08 terms of affordable housing.
09:45:09 So Mr. Rotella, I commend you on the initiative for
09:45:12 this, and I challenge us, Ms. Miller, and this city to
09:45:17 cook up another 20 projects like this, because this is
09:45:21 exactly the kind of initiative we need to be doing all
09:45:25 over creation.
09:45:27 Our housing needs are so acute and this is affordable,
09:45:31 and it's going to serve us well.
09:45:32 So thank you.
09:45:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This particular project, again, is a
09:45:35 true partnership.
09:45:38 The county gave land at the land trust, the city has
09:45:44 been working with Mr. Rotella.
09:45:45 We had to do some rezoning on it.
09:45:47 And then the city and Mrs. Miller working with Mr.
09:45:51 Rotella on the SHIP funding and grant funding as well
09:45:56 as the state and the Westshore community development.
09:45:58 This is what I call a true, true partnership.
09:46:02 And as you say it will be a great project for this
09:46:05 And that's a motion on the floor.
09:46:07 It's been moved and seconded.
09:46:09 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:46:17 We go back now to the agenda.
09:46:19 Let's deal with the ordinance being presented for first
09:46:21 Mr. Rotella.
09:46:24 Do we need to open it for public hearing?
09:46:29 >> No.
09:46:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to recognize in our
09:46:32 audience a representative from the University of South
09:46:33 Florida who I have a feeling is here because of this
09:46:36 particular ordinance.
09:46:41 Could they come up for recognition and say a little bit
09:46:47 about this?
09:46:49 >> Why not change the name of the street to bet on
09:46:53 court and LEVENDARA.
09:47:00 >> This should be a technical change.
09:47:03 >> State your name.
09:47:04 >> Kathy Bettencourt.
09:47:06 You need the address, too, 334 B west mason street,
09:47:12 Tampa, Florida. This is just yet another example of
09:47:14 how supportive the city has been, going back to the
09:47:16 days when the City of Tampa asked your you to come
09:47:22 within the city limits a couple administrations ago and
09:47:25 we are proud to be part of the City of Tampa and the
09:47:27 Tampa campus and really appreciate the wonderful
09:47:30 partnership we have had.
09:47:31 Since any of us knew about it back in 1966 except of
09:47:36 course for councilman Miranda who has been working on
09:47:41 the process.
09:47:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I move an ordinance
09:47:46 for first reading, an ordinance by the city of Tampa,
09:47:48 Florida renaming and designating a certain private
09:47:52 street currently known as USF walnut drive which is
09:47:57 located within the University of South Florida campus
09:48:00 USF, lying north of Fowler Avenue, south of Fletcher
09:48:03 Avenue, east of Bruce B. Downs Boulevard and west of
09:48:06 50th street within the City of Tampa, Hillsborough
09:48:09 County, Florida, to be here after known as USF beard
09:48:15 drive, providing an effective date.
09:48:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded, by
09:48:20 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:48:21 (Motion carried).
09:48:23 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miller and Dingfelder
09:48:25 being absent.
09:48:26 The second reading of the ordinance will be held
09:48:29 October the 2nd at 9:30 a.m.
09:48:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, thank you.
09:48:37 Great game last week.
09:48:38 Item number 2.
09:48:39 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:48:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to clarify something.
09:48:46 If there's staff here.
09:48:49 My understanding of what we are doing here is allowing
09:48:52 our code enforcement people to provide a ticket for
09:48:57 vendors who are vending without proper --
09:49:07 >>> Buhler, assistant city attorney.
09:49:09 That's correct, a Lough for code enforcement to enforce
09:49:11 the vendor ordinance through the use of the civil
09:49:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excellent.
09:49:18 Thank you.
09:49:18 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Can I ask a question?
09:49:27 Is it if they are not authorized or just if they are
09:49:32 >>> I think -- not positive -- I think it's going to be
09:49:36 for both.
09:49:36 Whatever is in chapter 27-272.
09:49:39 I do know that it's going to be the process.
09:49:45 Also if they do not have the permit that they are
09:49:47 supposed to have.
09:49:48 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you.
09:49:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move the following
09:49:53 ordinance for first reading, an ordinance of the city
09:49:55 of Tampa, Florida amending chapter 23.5-5 schedule of
09:50:00 violations and penalties to add code section 27-272
09:50:03 vendor-all types, to allow enforcement built civil
09:50:07 citation process, providing for repeal of all
09:50:09 ordinances in conflict, providing for severability,
09:50:12 providing an effective date.
09:50:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:50:15 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:50:18 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miller and Dingfelder
09:50:20 being absent.
09:50:22 Second reading of the ordinance will be held October
09:50:26 2nd at 9:30 a.m.
09:50:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman, I received a complaint
09:50:31 about a particular vendor for a number of years, and
09:50:34 it's never been satisfactorily explained what the story
09:50:37 is, so I would like to request that in 30 days we get a
09:50:41 report back on the clothing vendor located at the
09:50:44 northwest corner of Columbus drive and North Boulevard
09:50:50 under staff reports at 10:30.
09:50:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:50:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:50:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:50:59 (Motion carried)
09:51:00 Okay, so moved.
09:51:03 We go to our committee reports.
09:51:05 Councilman Charlie Miranda, public safety.
09:51:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move items 3 through 5.
09:51:11 >> Second.
09:51:11 (Motion carried).
09:51:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Parks and recreation, Councilwoman
09:51:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move resolutions 6 through 10.
09:51:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:51:20 (Motion carried).
09:51:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Public works, councilman Charlie
09:51:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move 11 through 34 with the
09:51:30 exception of 14 and 16.
09:51:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:51:33 (Motion carried).
09:51:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Finance Committee, Councilwoman Mary
09:51:44 Finance Committee.
09:51:52 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 35 through 46.
09:52:01 >> item 46 is approving the appointment, sue Lyons is a
09:52:06 member of our review board and I know she's in the
09:52:09 audience this morning.
09:52:10 We want to say thank you for being willing to serve
09:52:12 because we know that you will protect trees.
09:52:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 42 includes the firefighters local
09:52:20 bargaining contract.
09:52:21 Moved and seconded.
09:52:22 (Motion carried)
09:52:25 Building and zoning.
09:52:26 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:52:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move items 47
09:52:30 through 51 and 53 through 57 and 58 through,
09:52:37 goodness --
09:52:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:52:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Through 76.
09:52:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Pulling 52?
09:52:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Pulling 52 -- oh, we don't need to
09:52:50 pull 58.
09:52:51 We already dealt with that.
09:52:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
09:52:56 (Motion carried).
09:53:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This portion of the agenda has a
09:53:11 number of commitments to nonprofit which are all really
09:53:17 worthwhile and I just wish we had more resources to
09:53:20 direct toward them because they are providing for some
09:53:22 of the real people needs in our community, and I'm very
09:53:27 satisfied that we are able to make these commitments.
09:53:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
09:53:30 Thank you for that observation.
09:53:37 Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:53:38 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items number 77 through 91.
09:53:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:53:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:53:51 (Motion carried).
09:53:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Items set for public hearing.
09:54:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved 92 through 94.
09:54:02 >> Second.
09:54:02 (Motion carried).
09:54:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's go back now before we take up the
09:54:09 second reading to those pulled items.
09:54:15 14, 16 and 52.
09:54:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With regard to 14 and 16 did you want
09:54:26 the administration to appear on that?
09:54:28 Because that normally happens at 10:30.
09:54:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
09:54:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Probably take it at 10:30.
09:54:35 >>MARY MULHERN: My question is about the Palma Ceia
09:54:37 portion of that.
09:54:39 And I would just like to hear what exactly --
09:54:42 We'll take that up at 10:30 then.
09:54:44 >>MARY MULHERN: I think I can move item 16 because I
09:54:51 looked through the backup.
09:54:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Are you moving it?
09:54:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, I'll move item 16.
09:54:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:54:59 (Motion carried).
09:55:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, item 52, I believe Ms.
09:55:05 Saul-Sena didn't take it up, if she wishes to highlight
09:55:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, council
09:55:12 Number 52 is a really excellent step in the right
09:55:20 I pulled this not to be critical of it but to applaud
09:55:22 What we are doing is saying we, the city needs help in
09:55:26 implementing our comprehensive plan.
09:55:27 You know, traditionally, our plans just sort of dealt
09:55:30 with transportation, as roads generally we'll make sure
09:55:34 they are safe.
09:55:35 Our new comprehensive plan is much broader and more
09:55:38 It's saying that pedestrians, bicyclists and transit
09:55:42 users deserve real consideration in terms of
09:55:45 implementing this plan.
09:55:45 We are saying that it's not just all for the -- that we
09:55:53 are really recalibrating our rules, recalibrating our
09:55:57 priorities, to say that Tampa is going to be -- have a
09:56:00 high quality of life and be a livable city.
09:56:03 And many of the livable roadways initiatives are adopt
09:56:06 into our comprehensive plan.
09:56:08 The folks at Tindale-Oliver have demonstrate add
09:56:15 terrific ability to work with us, to rework our rules,
09:56:19 and I think our city departments recognize that we
09:56:22 don't have the staff to do all the things we need to do
09:56:25 both in terms of the transportation technical standards
09:56:29 as well as our ordinances.
09:56:31 And by hiring them, and getting them to make the
09:56:36 comprehensive plan come alive through better rules,
09:56:39 this will be a huge, literally, step forward as opposed
09:56:42 to a car forward in terms ever making our city more
09:56:47 So I applaud this.
09:56:48 This is exactly what we need to be doing and
09:56:53 demonstrate when the administration recognizes that we
09:56:55 don't have the resources in house to make the plan
09:56:58 happen that we need to hire smart professionals from
09:57:01 outside of our staff, to make it happen.
09:57:05 And I hope that as we look at the changes that we need
09:57:09 to move our historic preservation rules ahead and
09:57:12 protect our historic resources, that we will similarly
09:57:16 hire outside staff, we don't have enough staff in house
09:57:21 to make these changes happen.
09:57:23 So I want to bring this to your attention, a applaud
09:57:25 this move by the administration and say our comp plan
09:57:29 really contains a vision of the future we really want.
09:57:31 That's why we adopted it.
09:57:33 And we might need some additional help outside the city
09:57:36 to help realize that vision.
09:57:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want to move that then?
09:57:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
09:57:43 Would like to move item 52.
09:57:45 >> Second.
09:57:45 (Motion carried).
09:57:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Now to our second reading.
09:57:50 If you are going to address council, you need to stand
09:57:53 and be sworn.
09:58:06 (Oath administered by Clerk).
09:58:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to open the public hearing?
09:58:08 >> So moved.
09:58:09 >> Second.
09:58:10 (Motion carried).
09:58:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 95.
09:58:19 Anyone who wishes to address council on item 95?
09:58:22 >> move to close.
09:58:23 >> Second.
09:58:24 (Motion carried).
09:58:26 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance being presented for
09:58:28 second reading, an ordinance vacating, closing,
09:58:29 discontinuing, and abandoning a certain right-of-way
09:58:32 all or portions of those certain rights-of-way
09:58:36 contained within the proposed Cargo Road extension and
09:58:38 air cargo facility development area generally located
09:58:41 south of south Avenue, west of Hesperides --
09:58:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: My aunt's name.
09:58:56 >> Thank you, Mr. Miranda.
09:58:57 North of Ohio Avenue and east of Westshore Boulevard on
09:59:00 replat of Drew Park subdivision, a subdivision located
09:59:03 in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County, Florida, the
09:59:05 same being more fully described in section 2 hereof,
09:59:08 providing an effective date.
09:59:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:59:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
09:59:14 Record your vote.
09:59:25 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and Miller
09:59:27 being absent.
09:59:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 96.
09:59:30 Anyone wish to address council on item 96?
09:59:33 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land development coordination.
09:59:39 Council, I would like to mention items 96 and 97, they
09:59:44 both require certified site plans.
09:59:47 These plans have been certified by the zoning
09:59:48 administrator and provided to the clerk.
09:59:50 I have copies of these plans in case you have any
09:59:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?
09:59:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
09:59:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:59:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:00:05 >>MARY MULHERN: An ordinance being presented for second
10:00:07 reading, an ordinance approving a special use permit
10:00:10 S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales small convenience yow
10:00:13 and making lawful the sale of beverages containing
10:00:15 alcohol regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine and
10:00:18 liquor 4(COP-R) for consumption on the premises only in
10:00:21 connection with a restaurant business establishment at
10:00:23 or from that certain lot, plot or tract of land located
10:00:26 at 3701 Henderson Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, as more
10:00:30 particularly described in section 2 hereof, approving
10:00:33 waivers as set forth herein, wavering certain
10:00:36 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
10:00:38 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
10:00:41 conflict, providing an effective date.
10:00:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded by
10:00:45 councilman Miranda.
10:00:47 Record your vote, please.
10:00:55 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and Miller
10:00:57 being absent.
10:01:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 97.
10:01:01 Anyone wish to address council on item 97?
10:01:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
10:01:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:01:08 (Motion carried).
10:01:12 >> Okay, item 97, councilman Miranda.
10:01:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance for second
10:01:17 reading, an ordinance rezoning property in the general
10:01:19 vicinity of 7102 Interbay Boulevard in the city of
10:01:22 Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in
10:01:24 section 1 from zoning district classifications IG
10:01:27 industrial general to PD planned development, hotel,
10:01:29 providing an effective date.
10:01:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:01:33 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:01:38 Record your vote.
10:01:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 97.
10:01:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Did you want to speak?
10:01:56 Mr. Chairman, move that we reopen our public hearing to
10:01:58 allow him to speak.
10:02:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
10:02:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:02:04 (Motion carried).
10:02:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Come on and state your name for the
10:02:07 >>> Chad DOREN, Cleveland street, and I have been
10:02:12 My partner and I own the property adjacent to the east
10:02:17 of this petition to rezone.
10:02:19 There's 100 feet in width.
10:02:21 They have two issues, specific issues.
10:02:24 Number one, as we sit here today, on my west property
10:02:30 boundary, I had zero requirements for any buffering or
10:02:34 I can put buildings up to the lot line.
10:02:40 If you approve this petition, I have a number of ten
10:02:44 feet, the reasonable -- ten feet, I can put no
10:02:52 buildings, no parking, basically no nothing.
10:02:54 In addition to that, as the ordinance currently reads,
10:02:57 I'll be required as the property is developed, to spend
10:03:02 money I otherwise would not have to spend on
10:03:04 landscaping and trees and buffers, and perhaps masonry
10:03:11 That's the first issue I have a concern about, and I
10:03:14 understand that then may be nothing that can be done
10:03:16 about it short of not approving this project.
10:03:21 Secondly, the last issue is the configuration of the
10:03:30 It's a linear hotel that runs along the east boundary
10:03:33 of their site, approximately 60 feet high, and for all
10:03:39 practical intents and purposes, it's on my boundary or
10:03:43 my lot line.
10:03:44 So 100-foot line, site, with a 60-foot tall vertical
10:03:49 stucco wall that runs the length of it.
10:03:52 Early on, before petitioner's counsel first came here
10:03:56 about this issue, I approached him about reconfiguring
10:04:02 their design.
10:04:03 He said, what do you want to do?
10:04:05 I said make will L-shaped along the back of the
10:04:08 property line, and then come up the side.
10:04:12 He said, I will get with my client.
10:04:14 I'll pass that on to my client.
10:04:17 I looked at the candlewood web site.
10:04:22 There are nine locations in Florida.
10:04:24 I have looked at four of them.
10:04:25 I have photos if you would like to see them.
10:04:27 Three out of that four are L-shaped.
10:04:30 If you want to L-shape the configuration to where it's
10:04:35 to Dale Mabry it might make sense for petitioner, as I
10:04:40 read last reading on this they said most of their
10:04:42 business is coming from that direction, because of the
10:04:46 signs, so why not make it consistent with other
10:04:48 projects that candlewood would have in the state and
10:04:50 orient it in the direction they want, and alleviate the
10:04:53 setback issues that they are asking council to get rid
10:04:58 And I would appreciate some consideration for that.
10:05:01 Having said that, I think overall, for Interbay
10:05:05 corridor, I think it is good.
10:05:08 I truly do.
10:05:09 I would like to see it.
10:05:10 But you don't necessarily agree that somebody should
10:05:17 benefit one's property to the detriment of the neighbor
10:05:20 next door.
10:05:21 I'm being flexible.
10:05:23 I contacted petitioner's council.
10:05:27 I was basically told here to come here to council and
10:05:30 tell you about it.
10:05:31 My solutions, my proposals are to not pass any vote
10:05:35 today, give it a couple weeks.
10:05:37 I'll do whatever I need to do at council's direction.
10:05:41 I'll meet with council's legal staff and would do
10:05:48 anything the petitioner's counsel participants.
10:05:51 I would like to see that there is a solution.
10:05:53 So that's regarding the eating up of my property,
10:05:57 basically, relative to the L-shape, I don't know, I'm
10:06:00 sure in a minute we'll hear if the petitioner has
10:06:03 looked at perhaps a different configuration for the
10:06:07 If they haven't, it's so important to me, I would be
10:06:10 willing to take money out of my pocket and hire my own
10:06:13 planner based on all the waivers they currently have,
10:06:16 parking, et cetera, to see if the L-shape will get them
10:06:20 the same number of rooms and work for them.
10:06:23 That's what I'm asking for.
10:06:25 (Bell sounds).
10:06:26 Thank you.
10:06:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I'm listening to this
10:06:30 thing at the hearing, I'm listening to it now.
10:06:32 They say there was nine other buildings.
10:06:34 We are only talking about three that you mentioned that
10:06:36 are L-shaped.
10:06:38 Am I correct?
10:06:39 Or four?
10:06:41 What about the other five?
10:06:42 >>> Didn't have time to pull them all up on Google and
10:06:46 get aerials and see what's done.
10:06:47 >> I'm not asking -- I'm just asking, what's on both
10:06:54 sides of the property?
10:06:54 I remember what was there.
10:06:56 What's the width of your property, sir?
10:06:58 >>> 100 feet, I have platted copies here if you need to
10:07:02 enter it into the record.
10:07:03 >> 100 feet is the length of this room right now.
10:07:05 >>> I'll take you at your word.
10:07:10 I don't know.
10:07:10 That would be the width of it.
10:07:11 That's correct, if this is 100 feet.
10:07:14 It's an apartment complex immediately on the other side
10:07:16 of that 100 feet.
10:07:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could we hear from the petitioner?
10:07:22 >> Yes.
10:07:28 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: My address is suite 3700 Bank of
10:07:31 America Plaza.
10:07:32 I represent the petitioner on this hotel project.
10:07:36 I have spoken to Mr. DURANS many times.
10:07:41 He present add ten page letter to me early in the
10:07:44 His partner and his property which was here at first
10:07:48 I spoke to them numerous times in the lobby and many
10:07:50 other times.
10:07:52 The first issue about the buffer and the function of
10:07:55 the curb, the only solution is to amend the code.
10:07:58 Solution is not to deny our project.
10:07:59 What is occurring is this is a heavy industrial area
10:08:03 that's becoming improved with commercial uses such as
10:08:07 the hotel and multifamily, and we are basically the
10:08:11 first ones in the market to improve this area.
10:08:14 You would have the same issue if you were in Port
10:08:16 Tampa, Port Tampa, Drew Park, any other transitional
10:08:20 The solution is amending the code, not to punish us for
10:08:23 taking the risk to improve this area.
10:08:28 On the design of the building, it's an extraordinary --
10:08:31 it's a very unique shape of building, and we have done
10:08:35 the best we could to site this project to allow for an
10:08:40 easement over on the west to save many trees, to make
10:08:42 the building functional, to make it safe.
10:08:45 These gentlemen that I'm working with are professionals
10:08:47 in their field.
10:08:49 They would put the building where they thought it would
10:08:51 be best for exposure to their clients.
10:08:55 We also evaluated that, as Mr. DURANS had requested.
10:09:00 Unfortunately he's not satisfied with our slugs to
10:09:02 design the project.
10:09:03 I think we should have the benefit of the expertise
10:09:06 that our professionals put in the project.
10:09:08 I respectfully request that you approve this on second
10:09:11 reading this morning.
10:09:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could we see a site plan, please?
10:09:17 And I would love to hear from our staff.
10:09:19 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:09:20 I'll let LaShon show you the site plan.
10:09:22 I just want to clarify one issue regarding the buffer
10:09:25 that would be required of the neighbors property.
10:09:29 Buffers, where the building is placed on the property
10:09:31 actually has absolutely nothing to do with the buffer
10:09:33 that would be required on the adjacent property.
10:09:36 Buffers are use use to use, simply because there's a
10:09:40 hotel use on this property, this adjacent property
10:09:43 would be required the larger buffer because of the use
10:09:45 of the property.
10:09:46 It doesn't really matter.
10:09:47 If you shift the building to the back or the other
10:09:49 side, that doesn't matter.
10:09:51 Buffers are use to use.
10:09:52 Doesn't mat ber building placement.
10:09:54 I'll let's LaShon explain.
10:10:07 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.
10:10:11 Yes, staff has reviewed the plan and it's been
10:10:16 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: It's been approved?
10:10:20 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Yes.
10:10:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I feel like this area is in
10:10:26 transition from IG uses to more commercial uses.
10:10:32 I agree with Mr. Grandoff that this is an appropriate
10:10:41 sort of use here.
10:10:43 I of course love saving the tres, protecting the trees,
10:10:46 which is I assume why you put your structure on the
10:10:49 eastern side of the property rather than the western
10:10:53 And if you could -- just now will go at the site plan,
10:10:57 it appears that the reason you put the hotel on the
10:11:01 eastern side of the property is because that's the
10:11:04 longest portion of the property, and what I assume you
10:11:08 are thinking of.
10:11:09 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Exactly.
10:11:11 And we have a very significant drainage easement on the
10:11:14 western boundary that we had to respect.
10:11:16 It's very low land.
10:11:17 We had to respect that drainage easement and the trees
10:11:20 on that side.
10:11:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can you just speak to -- we don't
10:11:24 have an elevation as part --
10:11:29 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: The building elevation?
10:11:30 Yes, I have those.
10:11:31 >> Could you show us what the eastern elevation of the
10:11:34 building will be?
10:12:00 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Here is the eastern elevation.
10:12:02 This is from my previous version of it.
10:12:06 The only change, Ms. Saul-Sena, here it was going to
10:12:09 say candlewood suites.
10:12:12 But this would be the eastern elevation, as you are
10:12:14 going west on Interbay.
10:12:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:12:21 I feel like, when the previous gentleman spoke, I felt
10:12:26 like he was describing a 60-foot blank wall which
10:12:30 nobody would like to have as a neighbor.
10:12:32 I feel like this has at lowest got some interest, it's
10:12:35 got some articulation, it's not going to be just a
10:12:39 shear 60-foot blank wall and therefore is a little more
10:12:43 And I would think that when he develops his property,
10:12:46 he will just need to take this into consideration.
10:12:49 I think that given the current state of zoning, which
10:12:51 is IG, there could be much worse neighbors on this
10:12:57 I mean, I don't think this is going to be a bad
10:13:04 neighbor to the neighborhood.
10:13:07 And I think it's appropriate to have the kinds of
10:13:10 buffering requirements that we have in our code.
10:13:12 I think that it appropriate to try to buffer one use
10:13:16 from another.
10:13:17 And I believe -- I think our staff could speak to this.
10:13:20 If the neighbor were to change their zoning to an IG --
10:13:24 not an IG, they are currently IG -- to a multifamily
10:13:29 use where the buffering would be required and this
10:13:31 person required to do buffering.
10:13:35 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:13:36 If the property owner actually changed to a residential
10:13:38 use, the buffer would not be required.
10:13:43 Usually when you put commercial next to residential,
10:13:45 that the commercials are part of the buffer. If you
10:13:47 have a residential going in, you don't actually have
10:13:51 It -- residential on this particular property because
10:13:53 of the zoning.
10:13:54 It's industrial.
10:13:55 If they came in with a hotel use or some other
10:13:57 commercial use, I think the buffer is 10 feet generally
10:14:00 for commercial or industrial uses.
10:14:01 The hotel to hotel actually would require in a buffer.
10:14:05 I think at the last hearing we did have an
10:14:07 administrative review process for buffers to be reduced
10:14:10 as long as buffers meet or exceed other requirements.
10:14:14 If you are required a 10-foot buffer, you could plant
10:14:18 evergreen trees every 10 feet and hedges every five.
10:14:22 Generally what happens is people will provide some type
10:14:24 of decorative fencing, maybe a PVC fence and maybe they
10:14:29 do a little different type of trees, or maybe if they
10:14:32 require a 6-foot wall they put in a fence and trees
10:14:35 which they are required.
10:14:35 So we allow people to do that administratively as long
10:14:37 as they are providing adequate screening and buffering.
10:14:41 So it is an administrative review you come in for.
10:14:43 You wouldn't necessarily have to come before council
10:14:46 and ask for that.
10:14:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, motion to close.
10:14:51 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second.
10:14:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:14:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved by councilman Caetano, seconded.
10:15:00 The motion is still on the floor as read so record your
10:15:10 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miller and Dingfelder
10:15:22 being absent, and Miranda being absent at vote.
10:15:26 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Thank you for your time this morning.
10:15:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
10:15:28 Item 98 is a continued public hearing.
10:15:36 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:15:37 If you recall this case was for Miguel's Mexican
10:15:41 restaurant on Kennedy.
10:15:44 Which is at the corner of MacDill and Kennedy.
10:15:47 The reason for the continuance the last time there, was
10:15:50 some discrepancy in the occupancy load of the building
10:15:52 so the parking wasn't calculated correctly on the site
10:15:55 Mr. Michelini did correct the calculation, and just for
10:15:58 the record it is in the ordinance.
10:16:01 What they are requesting is aware of ten parking spaces
10:16:03 from 37 to 27 for the condition.
10:16:10 As you all see, the site plan, revised sigh plan came
10:16:14 in September 15 to correct the parking issues.
10:16:17 If you will note on the site plan, the dumpster
10:16:22 location and the angle, and then the parking is angled
10:16:27 with this parking here, which is like I said an
10:16:29 existing condition.
10:16:30 Solid waste had a chance to actually review it between
10:16:34 Monday and today.
10:16:35 And they sent through that basically showed that they
10:16:41 would be encroaching on adjacent property at that
10:16:43 particular angle.
10:16:44 Exhibit B shows the proper angle.
10:16:48 If council is inclined to actually approve this today
10:16:50 on first reading, I would just ask this be submitted
10:16:53 into the record and Mr. Michelini stated he could
10:16:56 correct this between first and second reading like we
10:16:59 do on other zoning cases so there really is no
10:17:01 hindrance to approving this today.
10:17:03 He would just need to make that correction.
10:17:05 Other than staff has no objections.
10:17:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?
10:17:09 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Here on behalf of Miguel's.
10:17:15 My only concern is -- and Cathy pointed out a couple
10:17:18 times -- this isn't an existing as-built condition.
10:17:24 They have solid waste pickup in the current
10:17:27 The dumpster -- I have a picture of it.
10:17:34 I don't have a picture, but it's on the site plan.
10:17:47 Everything that you see here is existing.
10:17:50 And it's one of the issues that we have with this new
10:17:53 provision in the code, is the review of what do you do
10:17:56 with existing restaurants and existing buildings that
10:18:00 already have these conditions?
10:18:02 That's the reason why we are seeking a waiver on the
10:18:04 The parking lots exist -- I don't know if that helps
10:18:10 you recall where Miguel's is.
10:18:13 And the parking lots are there.
10:18:15 We are having to seek waivers on the distance, the
10:18:19 backups, the backup lanes, and then if we start taking
10:18:22 parking away on Kennedy Boulevard, which is what this
10:18:24 will do, with that design that Cathy pointed out, when
10:18:32 start aggravating the parking situation in an area that
10:18:35 has no adjacent parking except for neighborhoods that
10:18:37 are behind the alley.
10:18:39 We can change the angle on there, but I believe it
10:18:42 would be a hardship to provide the owner to tear down
10:18:44 part of this enclosure and reconfigure it.
10:18:49 But if you want it to change the design on the site
10:18:52 plan, we could do that.
10:18:54 I don't know if there's any permit that's going to be
10:18:56 triggered that would actually require us to do the
10:18:58 construction, but we can change it on the site plan, if
10:19:02 you wish.
10:19:08 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:19:09 I actually have a picture of it.
10:19:20 The issue with you the particular angle and actually
10:19:22 the way it was drawn on the site plan is the one that
10:19:25 even had the problem.
10:19:26 I don't think it's actually how it's configured today.
10:19:30 I think it was modified. This looks like it's almost a
10:19:33 straight angle.
10:19:35 The issue with solid waste is that they have their own
10:19:38 technical standards on how the trucks operate, and of
10:19:41 course Wanda Shea is just trying to make sure when
10:19:45 these comes through that the truck can actually
10:19:49 Actually they are receiving trash pickup.
10:19:52 So all I can do at this point is ask it be placed on
10:19:54 the record, because I am not sure if there are any
10:19:56 permits that are required at this point.
10:20:00 >>> We don't have any problem putting it on the record.
10:20:03 It's just an issue that's ongoing and maybe you can
10:20:05 look at it in the future how you are going to address
10:20:08 these things because in some cases it's not gentlemen
10:20:10 oh metally possible to make changes but in this case we
10:20:15 can change the angles slightly and it's not that big a
10:20:17 deal but in other cases we have very constrained sites
10:20:20 and it presents a much greater hardship in this case.
10:20:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
10:20:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to ask a question,
10:20:28 looking at the dumpster sites.
10:20:30 Are there two companies serving the pickup?
10:20:32 I see a city dumpster and another dumpster from a
10:20:35 private company.
10:20:36 Is that possible?
10:20:38 >>> The second dumpster is cardboard.
10:20:40 And I think that's a recycling type of pickup.
10:20:43 It's different than the garbage.
10:20:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
10:20:53 council on item 98?
10:20:55 Anyone from the public wish to address council?
10:20:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
10:21:00 >>REBECCA KERT: I have a substitute ordinance which
10:21:02 contains the new parking waiver, if you are inclined.
10:21:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close and a second?
10:21:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:21:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor suggest if I by saying
10:21:15 Councilwoman Mulhern, do you want to read it?
10:21:17 >>MARY MULHERN: Move an ordinance approving a special
10:21:24 use permit venue and making lawful the sale of
10:21:27 beverages containing alcohol regardless of alcoholic
10:21:30 content, beer, wine and liquor, 4(COP-R), for
10:21:34 consumption on the premises only in connection with a
10:21:36 restaurant business establishment at or from that
10:21:38 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 3035 West
10:21:42 Kennedy Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, more particularly
10:21:45 described in section 2 hereof, approving waivers as set
10:21:48 forth herein, waiving certain restrictions as to
10:21:52 distance based upon certain findings, providing for
10:21:54 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
10:21:57 effective date.
10:21:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
10:21:59 It's been moved and seconded by Mr. Miranda.
10:22:02 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:22:05 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miller and Dingfelder
10:22:08 being absent.
10:22:09 Second reading of the ordinance will be held October
10:22:12 2nd at 9:30 a.m.
10:22:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I want to take note that you all are
10:22:16 making good time this morning.
10:22:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I was going to say, if we have a
10:22:21 moment between now and our 10:30 meeting I have a now
10:22:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We are going to take up new business
10:22:27 Go ahead.
10:22:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to pass out an article that
10:22:30 appeared in last Sunday's Tampa Tribune to everyone.
10:22:35 This article is about our concerns about demolition by
10:22:38 neglect, and trying to move along and develop proactive
10:22:46 gestures so it doesn't happen again.
10:22:48 I wanted to share with council members the list of
10:22:52 things I did.
10:22:53 And there's a meeting that I tried to schedule on
10:23:02 Monday the 29th, so at our October 4th council
10:23:07 meeting, I'd like to schedule a staff report from Ms.
10:23:14 Miller, I guess, or from the administration, on an
10:23:17 update on how we are doing on this list.
10:23:19 I want to keep this in front of us so that when keep
10:23:22 making progress so that he would don't lose any more
10:23:24 So my motion is that we receive a staff report on
10:23:27 October 2nd on how we are doing, what progress we
10:23:34 are making in terms of historic preservation.
10:23:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is that going to be enough time, do you
10:23:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I hope so.
10:23:42 I hope she can say we are doing this or we are doing
10:23:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just compliment you on this.
10:23:49 We took this up at our CRA meeting as well, and I think
10:23:55 that's commendable.
10:23:58 Thank you for your leadership on preservation of
10:24:00 historic buildings.
10:24:01 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Howard Avenue, up the road from
10:24:05 where we approved that one last week, I understand that
10:24:13 roof is leaking terribly, and they are having problems
10:24:17 to get organized there to see what they are going to
10:24:20 And I think that's owned by coast dental or one of
10:24:24 their subsidiaries.
10:24:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I believe that they have plans that
10:24:29 council already approved for renovation, but maybe they
10:24:31 haven't gotten started.
10:24:33 So maybe we could ask the administration to take a look
10:24:37 at that.
10:24:37 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Because I hear there's some
10:24:41 internal problems and they don't want to do what the
10:24:43 city wants to do.
10:24:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why don't we ask for a staff report
10:24:48 back at our next council meeting on the status of the
10:24:51 roof of that building?
10:24:54 So that's a motion -- I think it's the Coast Dental
10:25:00 property on Howard Avenue West of the interstate and on
10:25:04 the west side of Howard and report back at our next
10:25:06 council meeting which would be October 2nd.
10:25:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Will you include, too, amend your
10:25:12 motion to include the St. Paul AME church, which is the
10:25:16 oldest African-American church in Tampa, saying they
10:25:20 have some roof issues?
10:25:21 If would you include that.
10:25:22 >> And also St. Paul's AME church which I happened to
10:25:26 do a documentary on and found out that -- we'll include
10:25:36 all four structures, also include the Sicilian club on
10:25:41 Howard Avenue, and the Guida house which I believe is
10:25:49 in good shape because of our Parks Department, and get
10:25:53 a status report on that as well, and of course the
10:25:56 Kress Building.
10:25:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Did we get a second?
10:26:00 Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:26:02 (Motion carried).
10:26:04 Councilwoman Mulhern, do you have any new business?
10:26:07 >>MARY MULHERN: I have one item of new business.
10:26:10 The Rays.
10:26:12 First place.
10:26:17 Sent the Red Sox home last night.
10:26:20 Was a sell-out crowd and it was quite comfortable in
10:26:23 there with the air conditioning.
10:26:24 So a first-place team who will probably not even need
10:26:30 to be the wild card.
10:26:31 They are probably going to make it.
10:26:33 But the stadium works just fine.
10:26:38 You have to go to a game.
10:26:39 They hand these out.
10:26:42 I don't know if they are playing tonight but there's
10:26:44 three more games with Minnesota.
10:26:45 And then --
10:26:50 They are two games up.
10:26:52 >> They are two games ahead of Boston and I'm not sure
10:26:55 if they have the best record but it doesn't matter.
10:26:57 They are going to make it without having to be the wild
10:26:59 card team.
10:27:00 And Mr. Dingfelder isn't here, but I would like to
10:27:03 request that maybe Hartline look into for next season
10:27:09 maybe some shuttle buses from downtown Tampa to the
10:27:15 Rays stadium.
10:27:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:27:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:27:22 (Motion carried).
10:27:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I compliment the Rays.
10:27:29 Let me just say I'm a Yankee fan and St. Louis cardinal
10:27:32 fan so I'll wait on you all next year.
10:27:34 It's very hard to repeat the Pete when you don't have
10:27:40 Pete with you but on the Hartline buses I have no
10:27:43 problem with that as long as it pays for itself.
10:27:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I agree with that.
10:27:46 >> I am not going to send buses out to the private
10:27:49 institutions, whatever they are, and have a deficit for
10:27:52 the taxpayers.
10:27:53 So I'm sure that's what the request was.
10:27:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
10:27:58 If it turns out to not be affordable, the Rays can get
10:28:02 some charter buses.
10:28:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Caetano?
10:28:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to emphasize again the water
10:28:13 We had 168 million gallons going over the dam.
10:28:16 October 31st through the 6th it went down to 97
10:28:20 And this week, from November 7th through the
10:28:23 13th it's only down to 2.5 million.
10:28:26 So I'm asking the public, please conserve water.
10:28:29 When we buy water it costs you more money because it
10:28:31 costs us more money.
10:28:32 So please conserve water.
10:28:34 And we have had almost 1600 of our good taxpayers that
10:28:38 have received a citation for watering on nonwatering
10:28:43 days and so forth.
10:28:44 So don't do what you are not supposed to do.
10:28:48 We have a very precious element and it's been said
10:28:52 before, water and oil run together.
10:28:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Shelby.
10:28:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council members have received a memo
10:29:00 from Santiago Corrada asking that staff appearance of
10:29:05 Jake Slater replacement for the status of the comply
10:29:07 data base be rescheduled from October 2nd to
10:29:12 October 16th under staff reports.
10:29:15 He's not available on October 2nd.
10:29:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
10:29:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Slater to appear on --
10:29:24 >> I wanted to bring something up about that if I
10:29:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's actually number 100.
10:29:29 But I wanted to bring it up under new business, the
10:29:31 memo is to request rescheduling from October 2nd to
10:29:34 October 16.
10:29:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's the motion on the floor.
10:29:37 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:29:39 Opposed same sign.
10:29:44 You can bring that up when we come back.
10:29:46 Item -- it's been pulled, item 14, I believe it is.
10:29:58 >>MARY MULHERN: This is a question for Mr. Daignault, I
10:30:00 My only question about item 14 is on the second page of
10:30:07 the agenda item, task order number 9, distribution main
10:30:13 replacement, Palma Ceia.
10:30:15 I just would like to know exactly where that line is
10:30:25 going to go.
10:30:25 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Actually, that second paragraph is
10:30:28 task order number 9, which is replacement of
10:30:33 distribution mains adjacent to the project which is
10:30:35 actually at the north end and then task order 10 is
10:30:39 Palma Ceia.
10:30:41 In both of those areas our consultant is meeting with
10:30:43 the neighborhood as well as with the business
10:30:48 I have some maps here where I can show you where these
10:30:51 pipelines are going.
10:30:53 You need to understand just a couple of pieces of
10:30:56 information and background.
10:30:57 When he would put in the CEAC pipe loin which is the
10:31:01 larger pipeline, it is going to increase the pressure
10:31:04 in various parts of town, and the Palma Ceia area is
10:31:08 one of those areas so they wanted better pressure, and
10:31:11 they will have better reliability.
10:31:13 Our concern is that if we connect this higher pressure
10:31:17 to the existing older pipes, they are going to break.
10:31:21 So as part of the CEAC project, in other words, while
10:31:24 we are there with the construction contractors, and as
10:31:27 part of our pipe replacement program, that's why we are
10:31:30 replacing these pipes in these areas again associated
10:31:34 with the CEAC project.
10:31:36 These are smaller pipes.
10:31:38 We are generally talking about smaller than 12 inches.
10:31:41 In fact most of the pipes in the Palma Ceia area are
10:31:46 8-inch pipes that are being replaced.
10:31:49 Although work will be within the roads.
10:31:51 Again it's not going to be in people's -- outside the
10:31:55 It's going to be in the roadway.
10:31:56 But I can show you where those are.
10:31:59 >>MARY MULHERN: Can you show me the street, where they
10:32:01 are going?
10:32:02 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Let's see if you can get this.
10:32:09 And these are all -- if they are not, they will be on
10:32:14 our web site.
10:32:14 Also, I need to you remember at this point we are only
10:32:17 talking about design.
10:32:18 We are not going out there to start construction.
10:32:22 Those task orders 9 and 10, as well as 8, are for just
10:32:27 the design.
10:32:27 We are not out there yet doing construction.
10:32:30 So this is a long piece that goes on Concordia, this is
10:32:35 Palmyra, this is Ferdinand, and this is MacDill,
10:32:41 little pieces off of MacDill, and then again these
10:32:44 are available and I would be glad to pass them around.
10:32:47 And then these are smaller pipes, smaller distances.
10:32:55 But that's for the design of these pipes.
10:32:58 And they replace the existing water lines.
10:33:02 In some cases, they actually will be providing foyer
10:33:06 hydrant protection within a block or two that does not
10:33:10 currently have that.
10:33:11 So there's another little advantage there.
10:33:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We had this previous discussion.
10:33:22 A lot of concern was expressed by neighbors on some of
10:33:24 the narrow streets that the construction would be so
10:33:28 that the excavation for the major line would be so
10:33:32 great it could potentially harm the tree canopy and
10:33:35 they would make movement along the streets impossible
10:33:38 for an extended period of time.
10:33:42 >>> That's when we were talking about the stormwater
10:33:45 project, which is not this at all.
10:33:49 These are smaller water lines.
10:33:51 The largest pipe in here -- and that's going on
10:33:56 MacDill primarily, and then Esperanza and
10:34:03 Empedrado, is the CS pipe but that just comes one area.
10:34:10 Kind of a little distribution lines that will connect
10:34:12 to that.
10:34:13 >> Thank you for the reassurance.
10:34:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Daignault.
10:34:19 The note and information on the WBME participation.
10:34:22 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Does that cover what you were
10:34:24 looking for?
10:34:25 >> Yes.
10:34:25 I appreciate it very much.
10:34:26 Motion to move the item.
10:34:28 >>> So moved.
10:34:31 >> Second.
10:34:31 (Motion carried)
10:34:34 Item 99.
10:34:38 This is the status update on the Curtis Hixon
10:34:41 waterfront park.
10:34:46 >>KAREN PALUS: Parks and recreation director, here on
10:34:48 item number 99 regarding the Curtis Hixon waterfront
10:34:52 park update.
10:34:55 I will put the map on the Elmo.
10:35:01 Just wants to share with everyone, the project is fully
10:35:04 under construction and moving along quite nicely.
10:35:06 I want to thank our construction administration
10:35:09 department from parks and rec.
10:35:11 They have really, really worked hard to pull all the
10:35:14 pieces together.
10:35:15 We are meeting on a regular basis weekly, and then
10:35:18 biweekly to make sure all the elements come forward.
10:35:20 I want to share some of the items that are in the
10:35:22 contract and also moving forward.
10:35:24 You will see, I will share with you all, there is a web
10:35:28 site and I will give you the information on that where
10:35:29 you can watch the actual construction occur.
10:35:31 So if you want to go out there and see for yourself,
10:35:34 you can climb up on the top of the Poe Garage, a great
10:35:39 viewpoint to see the overall construction.
10:35:41 But we also have a web site available, and check that
10:35:44 out to see as it's going day by day.
10:35:48 It's a pretty neat -- we have been pleased to offer
10:35:53 that and have that available.
10:35:55 Several things that are moving along right now is
10:35:57 removal of the Zack Street and extension of Twiggs so
10:35:59 that's happening, the pedestrian bridge, if you haven't
10:36:02 seen the connection from Kiley to Curtis Hixon is just
10:36:05 about done as far as the roadway area.
10:36:08 All the walkway, all in the construction of projects,
10:36:13 all of our lighting for all of the event uses.
10:36:19 All the trees, plants, shrubs, when he would met with
10:36:25 you all the last time and shared some of the updates,
10:36:28 we had a total of 223 trees that were shown.
10:36:31 We now have a total of 277, of which 80 of them are
10:36:36 shade trees or live oaks.
10:36:38 We have 80 live oaks along with a whole slew of other
10:36:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: How large?
10:36:44 >>> They are going to be 4-inch caliper, 0 what we
10:36:50 are anticipating at this time.
10:36:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I know it's just beautiful here six
10:36:56 months of the year and scorchingly hot six months of
10:36:59 the you're and I'm concerned about the amount of shade
10:37:01 that will be provided, particularly for all the school
10:37:04 children who will be visiting both the museum and the
10:37:06 children's museum, and I know that budgets are tight,
10:37:11 but I would hope that if we have any flexibility in our
10:37:15 spending that we purchase larger trees from the get-go.
10:37:20 You spoke of range of ten feet to 20 feet.
10:37:25 If it's August I would rather be under the 20-foot
10:37:28 I think it really important.
10:37:30 I know that in our overall budget the cost between the
10:37:35 trees is pretty minor, and I really urge us to purchase
10:37:39 the larger trees, the shade trees, and if we have a
10:37:46 design question between going forth, and a useful
10:37:52 profile of an oak, that we will opt for the oak.
10:37:55 I don't know to what degree Mr. Balsley dictated that
10:38:01 but I feel strongly that shade is what we are going to
10:38:03 be seeking in this park.
10:38:07 >>KAREN PALUS: We have added in the additional areas
10:38:11 that came out of our last review with council as far as
10:38:16 We also have the 40-foot shaded area of the museum on
10:38:22 the far right side, so there's 40-foot cantilevers.
10:38:30 We will have the terrace site as well.
10:38:32 But this actually is over and covers the entire section
10:38:37 here along with all of the trees that are located
10:38:40 through here, and also in the play area.
10:38:42 And I'll show you an area of the play area, but this is
10:38:48 a much different place structure and unit than what we
10:38:53 typically have
10:38:58 On equipment for kids and a little more interactive and
10:39:01 full acceptable.
10:39:01 That was the question with council as well.
10:39:07 But you will see some of the trees, actually a few more
10:39:10 trees in this area.
10:39:11 But you will see the -- than what you see currently
10:39:18 although we did put a new system in New Tampa in front
10:39:22 of the gymnasium and wish we had tripled it because the
10:39:26 amount of kids that are out.
10:39:27 They are having a great time.
10:39:29 But you will see the water run that is in the play area
10:39:32 but climbing apparatus, a lot more fitness oriented
10:39:37 with a smaller catwalk and separated elements.
10:39:40 Again fully acceptable with seating areas around for
10:39:42 the parents.
10:39:43 And it's got some inclines and a lot of character as
10:39:50 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a couple of questions,
10:39:53 especially with the playground area.
10:39:55 Is that -- is it --
10:40:02 >> It's a playground.
10:40:08 >> Are there going to be some swings for mobility,
10:40:14 >> Anytime we put any kind of program in there we want
10:40:17 to make sure we have appropriate swings.
10:40:21 >> And are you working with Stephani Busansky on any of
10:40:26 this, the design or the plans?
10:40:27 >> Stephanie and I have had many conversations over all
10:40:31 of our projects and all of our playground elements and
10:40:35 We haven't specifically on this one but in general the
10:40:38 concepts we are putting forward with all of our
10:40:40 playgrounds is in line with what we would like to
10:40:43 continue to do at freedom playground.
10:40:45 >> I would like to see as much input from her as
10:40:49 That's been a hugely successful public-private
10:40:53 She's willing to give her time to this, to make sure
10:40:58 it's another playground that is universally acceptable.
10:41:02 It looks really cool.
10:41:03 I just want to make sure that mobility challenged can
10:41:12 get around there.
10:41:14 I'm glad to hear.
10:41:18 Then my other question is, if you can put the overhead
10:41:24 back on there.
10:41:30 Can you show me where there are additional trees?
10:41:34 Because my problem with it -- and I think Ms. Saul-Sena
10:41:41 said, too -- we have that huge lawn.
10:41:45 I mean, the whole thing, the majority of the main part
10:41:48 of the park doesn't seem to have any shade.
10:41:52 And I appreciate that you are going to have more shade
10:41:57 trees than previously planned, but it just a little
10:42:03 disappointing, and I just have to say because we have
10:42:06 been talking about this, you know, Irv talking about it
10:42:09 since I'm on council, and as things go, I think we
10:42:15 should be moving towards, you know, more sustainable,
10:42:18 more native, more less grass, and he would haven't gone
10:42:25 in that direction.
10:42:26 So maybe you can show me where the new trees are that
10:42:30 weren't there the last time.
10:42:32 >>> This again shows a couple of the areas where those
10:42:40 trees are.
10:42:41 Just in case you want specific areas.
10:42:56 The tree element.
10:42:58 There's an example of the play area.
10:43:03 Of all the trees.
10:43:09 You can see the play area as those come up.
10:43:11 You have plenty of shade through here.
10:43:13 You have shade.
10:43:14 Shade trees run along here as well.
10:43:16 And then both as they continue to go up.
10:43:21 Shade at the parents area.
10:43:23 So those are intended for activities, the orchestra,
10:43:29 and up along this area will have shade in those
10:43:35 locations as well.
10:43:38 These an example there.
10:43:39 And then, also,
10:43:47 Trees as well as some of the palms and such, and when
10:43:59 we had discussion last time, they were a little bit
10:44:01 less palm through here and different shaded areas along
10:44:05 this portion of the park.
10:44:07 This is over on where the pavilion would potentially be
10:44:11 built in the future.
10:44:14 Plus Kiley Gardens on that side.
10:44:16 Again you have shaded areas up in here.
10:44:17 This is an area that's palms anticipated with tables
10:44:25 and chairs on that end, and clusters to give you shade,
10:44:28 again up in here, we have some additional trees.
10:44:32 So I would be happy to go over it with you personally
10:44:37 and show you all the pieces and such.
10:44:39 But we did add an additional 54 as we we had stated
10:44:42 last time, we presented it to council, and made sure
10:44:45 that those were shade trees, and to look at our dollars
10:44:50 that are available, and we have the tax savings to do
10:44:53 some larger ones that are appropriate.
10:44:59 >>MARY MULHERN: One more question.
10:45:01 And I know I ask this every time and I can't remember.
10:45:07 Are we going to have reclaimed water?
10:45:09 >>KAREN PALUS: Yes.
10:45:10 The entire site will be reclaimed water.
10:45:11 I did want to share with some folks, a couple other
10:45:16 things for you, kind of what our progress is that we
10:45:22 are making in some of those things that are not
10:45:24 currently under contract.
10:45:25 Again as I mentioned, we had the fountain, thanks to
10:45:31 the wonderful donation from the Lykes Foundation, with
10:45:34 the mayor's beautification, and we also have about half
10:45:36 of our amenities, your benchs, receptacles, tables and
10:45:43 chairs and all of those parks and accessories that are
10:45:45 out there.
10:45:48 So working with our focus to try to find the additional
10:45:51 funding, and additional tax savings to place more of
10:45:57 those out there in the park.
10:45:59 I do want to share a couple of time lines real quick
10:46:01 and then tell you what's not in.
10:46:04 We anticipate moving forward with all of the fountains
10:46:07 starting in November.
10:46:08 So you will start to see some of those large trees come
10:46:15 That will be moving along.
10:46:16 The riverwalk pavers coming around the March '09
10:46:23 And installation around May and then all the plantings.
10:46:32 So that will be a good time to get them in with our
10:46:34 rains hopefully starting.
10:46:35 All of the installation of those amenities will begin
10:46:40 We anticipate completion by the end of August and a
10:46:43 grand opening in September.
10:46:44 So we are moving fast and furious and wove a great team
10:46:48 to pull the project together.
10:46:51 Again all the nonprofits and things, we are working
10:46:57 with different folks in the community to try to find
10:47:00 some of these on the items such as the dog park.
10:47:02 You heard in downtown we used to get every day, there
10:47:05 is a tremendous amount of four legged friends out
10:47:08 there, new residents, working with our folks.
10:47:11 So he would want to make sure we have the proper
10:47:13 facilities and are trying to work with the folks that
10:47:18 will be interested in supporting us there. We have the
10:47:20 native garden and the overlook right behind the museum
10:47:24 that is current currently not funded so that's an area
10:47:27 that we would love to see somebody come in and help to
10:47:30 support that element.
10:47:33 We have the trellis area, that beautiful building, the
10:47:37 Kiley side of the park, that would have all of those
10:47:40 parks, the ability to have a large restroom facility
10:47:44 and some of those amenities we really need in a large
10:47:46 park like that.
10:47:47 That's another element that we need to move forward and
10:47:51 see what we can do.
10:47:52 We have the kiosk and the visitors centers and those
10:47:55 areas are currently not funded but we are looking to do
10:47:59 some type of structure that will provide something to
10:48:03 meet all of our requirements, the fountains and such,
10:48:06 when you have a fountain, it is treated like a swimming
10:48:10 pool so you have to have the proper buffer facilities,
10:48:12 so we are working -- it will not be as you saw the
10:48:20 pebble or the potato.
10:48:22 We call them all kinds of things.
10:48:24 But the opportunity may be in the future to do those
10:48:26 but in the meantime we will do something that allow for
10:48:29 those restroom amenities we need for the facilities.
10:48:32 And then again, to get those amenities into the park.
10:48:39 The restaurant that's currently slated for that we are
10:48:44 not currently working on.
10:48:45 However we may look to a request for proposal to see if
10:48:48 somebody is interested in coming in and building that.
10:48:50 It is a capital issue, probably the biggest challenge
10:48:54 for a restaurant coming in.
10:48:59 (Bell sounds).
10:49:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:49:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Food was my next question.
10:49:05 I really love the active area.
10:49:07 I think it great, completely accessible.
10:49:10 I think Stephani but scan I ask deserves thanks because
10:49:15 she has raised our awareness level that all our parks
10:49:19 need to be accessible.
10:49:20 Food is really important, especially ice cream F.we are
10:49:23 talking September it is still hot, hot, hot.
10:49:25 So my question is we don't have the resources right now
10:49:28 to build the restaurant structure.
10:49:30 Are you beginning to have conversations with vendors?
10:49:33 And I'm wondering in terms of quality, parks and
10:49:39 recollection, I think it's tremendously important to
10:49:41 have hotdogs, ice cream, cold drinks, in the park
10:49:47 accessible for people to enjoy.
10:49:51 >>> It's definitely on our radar screen.
10:49:54 As part of our restaurant facilities, we are looking to
10:49:56 see how much we can afford to do in a restaurant
10:50:00 facility with a small concession as part of that.
10:50:02 So we are looking at proceed fab structures that are
10:50:06 very attractive that fit with the overall look of the
10:50:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If the Strand decision is decided in
10:50:14 a good way and if we are able to borrow money then I
10:50:20 would assume he would would be able to have the capital
10:50:22 to build the rest of these facilities.
10:50:25 Is that part of your conversation with Mark Huey?
10:50:28 >>> We haven't had that conversation.
10:50:30 I'm sure depending on the what-ifs there may be further
10:50:35 dialogue if anything changes.
10:50:37 >> Is it designed so if we have the money we could
10:50:40 build it?
10:50:40 >>> Everything is designed.
10:50:41 We have the dollar amounts, and that's really been
10:50:45 great for us, some other folks in there to help in that
10:50:51 We have given them concrete numbers to work with.
10:50:54 And how much the fountains are going to cost and have
10:50:58 the dialogue with the Lykes Foundation, Norma gene.
10:51:02 We knew exactly what it was going to be.
10:51:07 >>MARY MULHERN: A couple things just occurred to me
10:51:10 about the vendors.
10:51:11 Maybe we could get the taco bus to open up another --
10:51:16 have you been there, on Hillsborough?
10:51:17 It's great.
10:51:19 But the other thing I was thinking, which is a movement
10:51:24 all over the world, is the local food movement, and
10:51:30 which Bern's was kind of the first one here to do that,
10:51:35 is to grow all their own stuff.
10:51:37 So it might be something to low at, with a little piece
10:51:42 of that park for vegetable, Herb garden for whoever,
10:51:47 you know, that could be part of the draw for the
10:51:52 restaurant, that they could have a little bit of space
10:51:54 to plant and grow their own vegetables.
10:52:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to move to our next item.
10:52:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A bunch of people live in SkyPoint
10:52:10 really wanted a community garden.
10:52:12 And the discussion that I had understood was it would
10:52:15 be the children's museum because it would be
10:52:21 And isn't that sort of being --
10:52:26 >>> There are some elevated areas, and a garden style,
10:52:28 but they are more for annual plants, that kind of
10:52:32 There is the area in the back, by the Museum of Art in
10:52:37 the back area, that is not currently funded but --
10:52:43 >> The people who are interested in the community
10:52:44 gardens chat with you about that opportunity?
10:52:46 >>> Yes, they have talked with us at different
10:52:49 locations throughout the city, and happy to talk to
10:52:56 them again.
10:52:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We move to the next item.
10:53:00 Councilwoman Saul-Sena asked we move item 102.
10:53:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:53:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thenwell come back to item 100.
10:53:22 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:53:33 I believe this issue arose recently.
10:53:36 There was a buyingal shop that was going to go into a
10:53:39 particular unit on the eastern side of East Davis
10:53:44 Boulevard and the question was whether or not that
10:53:46 restaurant use is an intensification, how they were
10:53:49 going to provide parking, and there was a question of
10:53:51 permitting, and it came back to us to resolve the
10:53:53 parking issue.
10:53:55 That actually brought us back to a previous
10:53:58 conversation and study that was done about five years
10:54:00 ago, when Maddy Mansour was still with us.
10:54:06 Transportation division did look at the parking in this
10:54:10 particular section.
10:54:13 And what I have given you this morning is the aerial
10:54:16 that is on the -- and the section of the code that
10:54:22 applies to parking for shopping centers or multi-tenant
10:54:27 The determination that was made about five years ago
10:54:30 was to treat the shops along this particular block face
10:54:35 on the east and west side as a shopping center because
10:54:38 it does function as a shopping center.
10:54:43 They do have this rear parking that is open, the public
10:54:47 parks there.
10:54:48 And then they have the parking spaces that were planned
10:54:50 for and have remained and have been continually
10:54:54 upgraded and you will note the numbers on the aerial,
10:54:57 40 plus or minus, about 45 plus or minus.
10:55:00 So there's about 85 to 87 spaces available for the
10:55:04 public for this particular shopping center.
10:55:06 And it is considered one shopping center.
10:55:10 When you look at the code section that I showed you,
10:55:12 27-237, off-street parking required, paragraph B, this
10:55:17 code section is applied when parking is required.
10:55:21 This determines when it is required.
10:55:23 The first determination that was made was that this is
10:55:26 a multi-tenant building or a shopping center, treated
10:55:30 as one.
10:55:31 Paragraph B says that four of those shopping centers
10:55:33 that are determined to be so, if there are 75 parking
10:55:37 spaces available, that units that change in and out
10:55:40 that are 2,000 square feet or under floor area for each
10:55:44 unit, that they do not have to comply, they don't
10:55:47 trigger a parking review.
10:55:49 What happened with the particular buyingal shop that
10:55:51 brought this issue up was it was right about here.
10:55:55 That unit was only 1400 square feet.
10:55:57 They didn't trigger compliance with parking.
10:55:59 So it is what it is.
10:56:00 The determination that was made was two fold about five
10:56:04 years ago, treating it first and foremost as a shopping
10:56:08 center, and the second is that it's a shopping center
10:56:10 of retail uses.
10:56:11 And then we rely on this section of the code that as
10:56:15 long as it's under 2,000 square feet it doesn't matter
10:56:17 if it's changing to office, retail, restaurant.
10:56:21 It's essentially grandfathered, if you want to use that
10:56:25 Per this section of the code.
10:56:26 It doesn't trigger any compliance with parking
10:56:29 regulations, because it's already captured and planned
10:56:31 for in this particular area.
10:56:33 So I just wanted to show you, it's already covered in
10:56:35 the code.
10:56:36 If there is a use that comes in that actually occupies
10:56:40 multiple units, multiple tenants, tenant units, over
10:56:46 2,000 square feet, that's when the parking actually
10:56:49 comes into question and those when potentially it would
10:56:51 be required or a waiver, through our waiver process.
10:56:55 Right now currently the largest folio number is this
10:56:58 building right here, and 17,000 square feet, in that
10:57:02 particular segment of building.
10:57:04 However, each unit is under 2,000 square feet.
10:57:06 So it's not that any one could actually trigger it.
10:57:13 Do you have any more questions?
10:57:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:57:20 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm not real clear on how this came up,
10:57:23 but my reaction, I'm just surprised that this is
10:57:28 designated as a shopping center which seems like a
10:57:32 suburban kind of zoning, when this is really a main
10:57:38 street and more of a village center, walkable, livable,
10:57:42 and, you know, it's only designated as a shopping
10:57:46 center, the terminology used in the parking code, in
10:57:49 order to be able to be captured under this, so that we
10:57:51 don't trigger parking.
10:57:52 It has to be considered a multi-tenant building such as
10:57:55 a shopping center or office project.
10:57:59 >>MARY MULHERN: So you are designating that reduces the
10:58:03 >>> Exactly.
10:58:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:58:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I was saying that if there were
10:58:11 problems with the parking, I would definitely hear
10:58:14 about it.
10:58:15 And the fact that I haven't means that it's working.
10:58:17 People are creative.
10:58:20 They are walking.
10:58:21 They are riding their bikes.
10:58:22 They are parking a block north.
10:58:23 They are parking on the street a block south.
10:58:26 The businesses are all very busy and successful.
10:58:28 And I'm not hearing complaints from the neighbors.
10:58:30 So I consider this a win-win.
10:58:33 What I hope is that as we move forward with our new
10:58:36 plan, our new comprehensive plan which encourages this
10:58:40 kind of village center throughout Tampa, it recognizes
10:58:43 that our traditional neighborhoods often don't have
10:58:46 parking, existing suburban rules, that we create a new
10:58:52 set of requirements and expectations both in our
10:58:55 transportation technical manual and in our zoning to
10:58:58 encourage the kind of commercial cluster and don't
10:59:04 require a lot of surface lots because that isn't the
10:59:06 urban form that we want for our traditional
10:59:10 What I'd like to do if we could, Mr. Chairman, is just
10:59:12 hear briefly from Mr. Michelini Ohio brought this issue
10:59:16 to you my attention, and does this seem to address the
10:59:20 concerns that you had.
10:59:20 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Let me say first that Cathy --
10:59:25 Your name for the record, please.
10:59:27 >>> Steve Michelini.
10:59:28 They have been great to work on this issue because it
10:59:30 really surfaced over Construction Services Center.
10:59:32 And if it hadn't been for Cathy and Eric Cotton and
10:59:36 some of the staff members, Abbye Feeley looking at this
10:59:39 in a more creative way, we couldn't have solved it.
10:59:41 And the commercial center essentially would have been
10:59:44 stopped from redevelopment, because there is no way to
10:59:47 meet the parking requirement in areas like this.
10:59:50 I want to show you a picture here of the before picture
10:59:54 of what happened.
10:59:56 This was the canopy that existed there.
10:59:59 And the owner of the building went in to get a permit,
11:00:03 and was stopped from getting that permit.
11:00:06 But this is the after picture, after Cathy and her
11:00:10 staff got involved and said this is a historic canopy,
11:00:14 a historic commercial center, and it also addressed the
11:00:19 One of the other issues that got triggered was the
11:00:23 requirement for a wall on the back.
11:00:28 That's the alley access to the rear access of all of
11:00:31 these buildings and Cathy and her staff stepped in and
11:00:35 said, look, you don't really need this buffer wall and
11:00:38 landscaping back here.
11:00:39 So I think the major issue is to indicating those kinds
11:00:43 of allowances back to the construction services making
11:00:48 sure they understand that you don't have to keep going
11:00:51 back and forth between construction services and tying
11:00:54 up the zoning office to reemphasize the same waivers
11:00:58 that they have already been granted.
11:01:02 There is no way for this center or any other commercial
11:01:05 center, as you pointed out, that exists in these
11:01:08 historic areas to meet the current code.
11:01:11 You just can't.
11:01:12 So what you are forced to do is start tearing houses
11:01:14 down that are blocks away and turning them, converting
11:01:18 them into parking lots which you don't want to do.
11:01:20 So recognizing this goes a long way toward solving that
11:01:24 It allows renovation to occur.
11:01:26 It protects those neighborhoods, pedestrian
11:01:28 destinations, and as you know when you park here, you
11:01:32 walk all over.
11:01:32 You don't just go to one place.
11:01:34 So, anyway, thank you for the time.
11:01:37 I appreciate the ability to address this issue.
11:01:40 And again Cathy and her staff worked to figure out a
11:01:43 solution which seems to be working.
11:01:45 Again institutionalizing that will go a long way toward
11:01:48 other people having to the kind of difficulties going
11:01:53 back and forth, also eliminates them from having to
11:01:59 hire me to do it.
11:02:00 >> It's something when someone comes up to thank us for
11:02:04 eliminating a future client of theirs but I would like
11:02:06 to ask the legal department to work with building and
11:02:08 zoning to develop regulations that recognize this kind
11:02:11 of historic neighborhood center, recognizing that the
11:02:16 new comp plan encourages this kind of development so
11:02:19 that in the future this is just recognized as a matter
11:02:23 of course and not requiring sort of an act of Congress
11:02:27 to allow the development to occur.
11:02:31 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:02:34 This is already underway in terms of what we have, and
11:02:37 you mentioned really have in our comprehensive plan and
11:02:41 moving forward to update our code, is a process we are
11:02:44 already looking at the technical manual.
11:02:45 Next step to look at chapter 22, a transportation code,
11:02:49 update those.
11:02:50 So the motion is fine.
11:02:52 I just wanted to let now that we are in the process of
11:02:55 doing that.
11:02:57 It will really be something that will come to a head
11:02:59 after that, comprehensive plan has been adopted, and we
11:03:02 will be required by Florida law to update our code to
11:03:05 be in compliance.
11:03:06 But it's a process already started so I don't know if
11:03:10 you want to put a time frame on it but I want to let
11:03:12 you know we are in that process but it will take time.
11:03:15 It's not something that will happen overnight but we
11:03:17 are slowly going through our code and trying to bring
11:03:19 them into the 21st century, and deal with the
11:03:21 realities of where the City of Tampa is at.
11:03:25 >> Second.
11:03:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Given what has just been brought to
11:03:29 us, I would like to put this as a staff report at the
11:03:31 beginning of March.
11:03:34 Certainly by then we will have made progress.
11:03:35 And if we haven't, then maybe you guys being so busy
11:03:38 need to hire somebody to help you speed it along.
11:03:43 That's six months from now.
11:03:44 >>JULIA COLE: By that time I should have a real
11:03:47 opportunity to update you on where we are in some of
11:03:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The first regular council meeting in
11:03:52 March under staff reports to give us an update on how
11:03:55 we are progressing with our historic commercial
11:03:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
11:04:01 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:04:05 We move to item 100.
11:04:09 Item 100 is legal department.
11:04:21 >>> Good morning.
11:04:22 My name is Chip Fletcher, I'm the city attorney, and
11:04:25 I'm here today to talk to you about the code
11:04:33 enforcement liens.
11:04:35 This is a quarterly update that we provide.
11:04:38 And we have been working with the administration and
11:04:43 other parts of the city to try to get you better
11:04:48 I guess the request related to the outstanding code
11:04:51 enforcement fines.
11:04:54 I'll provide you with the numbers, but I do want to
11:04:57 caution you -- and I understand that this has been
11:04:59 mentioned before that these aren't really account
11:05:02 They are numbers that are out there, and I'll go
11:05:04 through and explain a little bit what they mean as
11:05:06 opposed to what they look like on their face.
11:05:11 We have been going through data and been able to get
11:05:13 for you information related to properties with $175,000
11:05:19 worth of fines and up, and wove got about 1.6 out
11:05:24 there, out there in cases that are active and not in
11:05:29 compliance yet.
11:05:30 And about 2 million or so in cases that are in
11:05:34 compliance, so the properties meet code, but the fines
11:05:38 have not been paid.
11:05:41 As you may be aware, there's some technology issues and
11:05:45 data entering issues related to being able to actually
11:05:48 just push a button, run a report and tell you this is
11:05:51 exactly what's out there, and that's why we have been
11:05:54 focusing on these properties above $175,000, had to
11:06:02 make sure the properties have either not paid Oregon
11:06:05 through various different legal proceedings, that they
11:06:08 haven't been closed out by foreclosure, et cetera.
11:06:14 But even though it sounds like huge numbers -- and they
11:06:16 are big numbers -- they don't reflect that, for
11:06:20 instance, you may have a lien on a property that's
11:06:22 worth more than the value of the property.
11:06:24 So obviously we are not going to ever collect on that.
11:06:27 You may have a mortgage in place that predates the
11:06:30 value of the -- the lien on the property and the
11:06:33 mortgage together with the lien will exceed the value
11:06:35 of the property.
11:06:36 So we don't -- we bring this information because you
11:06:41 asked for it but we don't want you to think that these
11:06:43 are dollar amounts that we are going to realize in the
11:06:46 near or long-term future.
11:06:49 And I think you have also been advised previously that
11:06:52 when can't foreclose on homestead property.
11:06:54 So we have tried to get those off the list.
11:06:57 But the data we have relates to whether or not they
11:07:00 were homesteaded at the time of the initial
11:07:03 We don't know, for instance, if some of these would
11:07:07 prevent foreclosure.
11:07:08 What I can tell you that I think is probably a little
11:07:11 bit more useful information is that year to date we
11:07:14 have collected approximately $580,000 in code
11:07:18 enforcement fines.
11:07:21 We have been actively seeking enforcement of liens on
11:07:26 25 different properties.
11:07:27 We have actually foreclosed on one property.
11:07:30 We have settled three others.
11:07:32 And we are continuing to be aggressive, where we think
11:07:38 we have got the ability to actually see some
11:07:39 realization, and address some significant outstanding
11:07:43 long-term problems with some properties.
11:07:46 Compared to prior years, last year, it appears that we
11:07:50 collected about roughly $800,000 in fines in FY 2006,
11:07:57 1.3, FY 2005 about 800.
11:08:02 So that seems to be the range that we typically bring
11:08:06 in, in these code enforcement actions over a fiscal
11:08:11 Is there anything else I could answer or look at for
11:08:19 >> Councilwoman.
11:08:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Saul-Sena he would want to work
11:08:22 together with with you cooperatively to be as effective
11:08:24 as we can be in terms of code enforcement.
11:08:26 And I know that legal is working very hard with the
11:08:31 I passed out to council -- and I'll give you a copy of
11:08:36 things that I would like reported on when Jake Slater
11:08:39 comes back to council on October 16th about how we
11:08:42 are doing in terms of processing information.
11:08:48 To that end, we need information on how you are doing,
11:08:51 and he would want you to give us -- to give us
11:08:55 direction in terms of, can we be more supportive of you
11:08:58 in terms of adopting new ordinances, creating new
11:09:00 procedures, helping you to streamline your process?
11:09:04 Because we want this city to be clean, and he would
11:09:08 want this city to be kind to all the neighbors and not
11:09:10 have neighbors living next to miserable property.
11:09:14 And we want, when people have been cited and they need
11:09:19 to pay us, we want them to pay us.
11:09:22 So to that degree I consider council and legal and code
11:09:26 enforcement partners, and we really want to push ahead.
11:09:28 He isn't here today but usually our friend -- I just
11:09:33 blanked on his name -- yes, Mr. Johnson encouraging us,
11:09:37 asking us, you know, we the city need to be more
11:09:41 efficient and more forceful and more timely in our
11:09:47 So we are here to work with you.
11:09:48 And I'll share these questions.
11:09:51 You can work when we hear back you from in a month on
11:09:56 October 16th in hopefully providing some answers.
11:09:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, in all these six
11:10:01 requests -- and I have no disagreement with them.
11:10:07 There is one priority that I think is the most
11:10:09 That's not in the six.
11:10:13 When you look at code enforcement, where do they come
11:10:17 What parts of the city are they?
11:10:19 I'm not -- I'm not here to collect fines.
11:10:22 I'm here to make the city better.
11:10:24 I'm here to make the city more prosperous -- prosperous
11:10:28 by helping those out.
11:10:29 There's no mechanism in place that I know of.
11:10:31 Maybe the good will of the people is to have their
11:10:33 homes and their businesses upgraded.
11:10:36 But, unfortunately, they don't have the funds.
11:10:41 If AIG can go under, Bear Stearns can go under, Fannie
11:10:49 and Freddie had a date and couldn't make it, what I'm
11:10:52 saying is that all these things are happening to the
11:10:55 people that are supporting all of us.
11:11:00 And there's no mechanism for to say, listen, it takes
11:11:05 so much to get your property in conformity.
11:11:08 Well, let's work together and get it solved.
11:11:12 If they have been financially unable to pay it back.
11:11:15 So code enforcement to me, when you look at the
11:11:18 demographics of where they come, I don't see too many
11:11:22 code enforcements on Davis Island.
11:11:25 I don't see too many code enforcements in New Tampa.
11:11:29 I don't see too many code enforcements south of
11:11:33 I do see them in district 6 and in district 5.
11:11:38 Where those that are trying to make a living are having
11:11:41 the hardest times, in not only making a living but
11:11:44 supporting their family, making the tax payment, making
11:11:48 the electric bill, paying the water bill, and if you
11:11:51 look at the number of items that I just brought up,
11:11:57 they will all be related, the same individuals that
11:12:00 have a code enforcement problem, have a problem in
11:12:04 making their mortgage, have a problem in making the
11:12:06 water payment, have a problem in making the electric
11:12:09 bill, and I'm not going to go after those individuals
11:12:12 unless we have a solution to remedy the situation.
11:12:16 Right now these are fine.
11:12:18 I agree with all this.
11:12:19 However, to make a report back to us, I think code
11:12:23 enforcement has to look at the whole city and come back
11:12:26 to this council with a respective number of code
11:12:31 enforcement and where are they at?
11:12:33 And I guarantee you I am not going to be too far off.
11:12:36 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:12:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Actually, Mr. Miranda, this might
11:12:44 sound -- there's a Davis on Davis Island with some
11:12:48 abandoned swimming pools.
11:12:51 >>> There's one or two.
11:12:52 I'm involved in that one as you well know.
11:12:54 I know who the party is, the house has been in
11:12:56 construction for seven years.
11:12:58 I understand all that.
11:12:59 But the overwhelming amount, that's what I want you
11:13:03 guys to bring to us, you gentlemen -- ladies and
11:13:09 I'm not a politically correct guy, never have been and
11:13:12 never will be.
11:13:13 But that's what I would like to see, included in that
11:13:18 >> But to get to the question of how is it foreclosed
11:13:24 on, that has swimming pools?
11:13:26 This is not you, Mr. Fletcher, but throws a problem
11:13:31 with mosquitoes breeding because we live in a swamp,
11:13:34 and I know that I would assume, Mr. Caetano, it's an
11:13:37 issue in New Tampa.
11:13:39 I know it's an issue in some parts of town where
11:13:42 abandons houses just have water sitting there. I don't
11:13:45 believe that city inspectors addressed -- I don't know
11:13:49 if city inspectors address it.
11:13:51 I see it more as a public health issue.
11:13:53 But what I would like to do is to request that code
11:13:57 enforcement, where there is a situation of standing
11:14:02 water, work with the public health department under the
11:14:07 county to address the issue of standing water in
11:14:13 abandoned houses and abandoned pools, because
11:14:16 mosquitoes, virus is a reality here and as code
11:14:21 enforcements go up, I see this being a public health
11:14:25 So we can't direct staff to do anything.
11:14:27 But I would encourage code enforcement to communicate
11:14:30 with public health in terms of addressing the issue of
11:14:33 standing water and abandoned homes.
11:14:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have a motion on the floor already.
11:14:40 Let me also make one correction.
11:14:42 The health department is under the state.
11:14:47 A lot of the things when you said Hillsborough County
11:14:51 health department actually falls under the state, not
11:14:53 the county.
11:14:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm sorry.
11:14:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's all right.
11:14:56 A little Information item, that's all.
11:14:58 There's a motion on the floor.
11:14:59 (Motion carried).
11:15:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Now my motion is that the staff --
11:15:06 did we just vote on that?
11:15:08 >> We just voted on that.
11:15:09 >> My second motion would be to encourage the staff to
11:15:12 work with is the state health department to address
11:15:14 standing water in abandoned swimming pools due to
11:15:19 foreclosures, code enforcement action.
11:15:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And the motion we passed was addressing
11:15:24 these six items coming back on the 16th.
11:15:26 The second motion now, all in favor signify by saying
11:15:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And to add to it, Mr. Miranda's
11:15:32 suggestion that we have a report on where the code
11:15:36 enforcement action is located geographically in the
11:15:44 It would be really useful information.
11:15:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I concur with Mr. Miranda.
11:15:50 I think he's dead on target on that.
11:15:53 But it's just interesting, though, he mentioned all
11:15:55 these bailouts, and I find it interesting we are
11:15:59 bailing out all these major companies, $22 million and
11:16:04 all this kind of thing.
11:16:06 Who is going to bail out the little guy?
11:16:08 >> Exactly.
11:16:11 No golden parachute there.
11:16:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion on the floor.
11:16:14 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:16:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It could be sort of by zip code
11:16:21 pretty easily.
11:16:22 That's the way I would approach it.
11:16:23 If you just do a computer sort by zip code.
11:16:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:16:27 Item 100, that is a resolution for Hartline, I think.
11:16:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 101.
11:16:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just a motion to move.
11:16:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
11:16:37 >> Second.
11:16:37 (Motion carried).
11:16:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 103, Mr. Fletcher.
11:16:45 This item is related to the right-of-way, using the
11:16:52 Solicitation in the right-of-way.
11:16:55 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.
11:16:57 This has been an issue that I understand has been a
11:17:02 topic of discussion with the city for some time.
11:17:05 Just briefly, our current code provisions have some
11:17:13 legal flaws in them, I guess would be the best way to
11:17:17 put it, and would he have been working at how to
11:17:19 correct this problem for some time.
11:17:21 And a rather unique situation where state law requires
11:17:24 that certain provisions be provided for non-profit
11:17:29 Federal courts have told us that that's not permissible
11:17:33 to treat different entities differently, so he would
11:17:37 kind of are in a place where having a permit system
11:17:41 like we currently have in our ordinance, is hard to
11:17:46 And so what we would propose is an overhaul of the
11:17:50 current code provisions and looking at either a
11:17:56 complete prohibition, kind of on one end of the
11:17:58 spectrum, and the other end of the spectrum a code
11:18:01 where we have standards in place to protect public
11:18:04 health and safety, for which a permit is not actually
11:18:08 The police department or other city officials would
11:18:11 enforce that directly, and you would still have the
11:18:15 opportunity to solicit in the right-of-way.
11:18:18 The Hillsborough County staff is presently working on a
11:18:21 revision to their code.
11:18:23 They have a complete prohibition on the books in their
11:18:26 code which has been upheld in court.
11:18:29 They have been asked to evaluate changing that, to
11:18:34 provide for some solicitation in the right-of-way.
11:18:37 And I would propose that you get some direction from
11:18:40 you all as to which end of the spectrum you would like
11:18:43 to be at, and then for to us go and work with
11:18:46 Hillsborough County to come up with a code that is
11:18:50 similar or ideally identical so when don't have
11:18:54 problems where one intersection happens to be in the
11:18:57 city, the next one in the county and we have a
11:18:59 different treatment and confusion.
11:19:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My position, I think you noticed to
11:19:04 work with the county and try to come up with something
11:19:07 similar so throws consistently and continuity.
11:19:09 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Fletcher, I don't mind people
11:19:14 soliciting in the street.
11:19:16 Now last week there they're was an article in the
11:19:19 St. Pete Times, in the north Tampa edition, about a
11:19:23 gentleman who was soliciting for a church, who was
11:19:28 It's no longer in business.
11:19:30 But from what I understand, according to the article in
11:19:33 the newspaper, that he is supposedly representing that
11:19:38 And that church is out of business.
11:19:40 I don't even think they have a site her in the city
11:19:44 I see before us today the Dana shores Shriners is
11:19:50 looking for a permit.
11:19:52 Recently we gave a permit for the fire department.
11:19:56 And I know when I stopped at a red light and the
11:19:59 captain came up, had his boot out and I said, look,
11:20:04 here's ten bucks, don't bother me again.
11:20:06 I was kidding when I said that.
11:20:08 And the word got out that I gave ten bucks.
11:20:11 I guess you should only give them a dollar.
11:20:13 But, anyway, it's for a good cause.
11:20:16 I understand that.
11:20:17 And the newspaper people, are we considering those
11:20:23 people in this ordinance?
11:20:25 >> They would also be covered with whatever direction
11:20:27 it was.
11:20:28 >> Because I don't want to put most of those people are
11:20:31 I don't want to put them out of work.
11:20:36 The vice-president from the times and Tribune, they
11:20:37 came into my office together, and making efforts to
11:20:41 make it more safe.
11:20:42 They are requiring their people to wear a vest.
11:20:46 And some of them are very aggressive.
11:20:48 You know, they put that newspaper right in your face,
11:20:51 and you have one sitting on your seat already.
11:20:54 But I think we noticed cooperation between the county,
11:20:57 because these a county road, especially Bruce B. Downs.
11:21:00 And I know talking, the other day there, our legal
11:21:09 staff, didn't say they were working together, and I'm
11:21:11 glad that's happening.
11:21:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I don't know if I can
11:21:15 follow that.
11:21:19 But I think the ten dollars was five for him and five
11:21:21 for me but he put up the money.
11:21:24 This is -- although it seems simple, more likely will
11:21:29 be the most difficult thing in awhile to solve.
11:21:33 We used to have a standard where you have to have
11:21:35 insurance, you have to have this, that and the other.
11:21:37 And you came, and showed your papers that you had on
11:21:45 the list and then you got a permit to do that.
11:21:47 There was only two or three.
11:21:49 There's not one intersection in the city on a weekly
11:21:52 basis that there's not someone panhandling with the
11:21:56 little box, the little white can or whatever.
11:22:00 But the easiest way to solve this is without a law,
11:22:04 just for the people to recognize who you are dealing
11:22:06 with and either give or not give.
11:22:09 And guess what, if you don't give, they don't show up
11:22:13 too long.
11:22:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's true.
11:22:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So it's a situation where you know
11:22:18 that you are giving to the boot drive, for a good
11:22:21 cause, then you give to the about it drive.
11:22:23 If you are giving to the burn centers for the good
11:22:27 people at the Shriners that have all those wonderful
11:22:30 hospitals, not only here but in Cincinnati, throughout
11:22:33 the country, for free, then you give to them.
11:22:35 I don't give to anyone that I can't identify with a
11:22:38 role cause.
11:22:40 So what I'm saying is that you are going to find more
11:22:43 Constitutional problem with this no matter which way
11:22:47 you go, the right-of-way belongs to the public, it's
11:22:50 very hard to squeeze somebody out because of whatever
11:22:55 denomination they are, they may think you are doing it
11:22:59 We are not.
11:22:59 We are just trying to make Tampa a better place to
11:23:03 But then again, you look at the other side.
11:23:05 They have the right to be in the right-of-way.
11:23:10 So you are caught here in attackle squeeze and if the
11:23:14 guard doesn't pull out you are going to really be hit
11:23:17 And I'm saying that it's a very difficult thing to
11:23:23 Thank God it's your job and not mine, in a way.
11:23:27 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:23:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:23:31 Are you looking for a motion?
11:23:34 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If we could get some direction.
11:23:35 The choice is really either a complete prohibition.
11:23:39 In other words, the point being that we treat everybody
11:23:41 the same.
11:23:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think, Mr. Fletcher, though, I think
11:23:46 we want to allow those vendors, agencies, to be able to
11:23:53 use the right-of-way.
11:23:54 I think it becomes the issue of public safety making
11:23:56 sure that they have something in place in terms to
11:23:58 protect the public, and the people.
11:24:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Content neutral, safety.
11:24:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's what I'm hearing.
11:24:06 I think I will tell you that there are a lot of good
11:24:11 organizations that are out there, and as the economy
11:24:17 gets worse and people lose their jobs you are going to
11:24:19 have some people out there as well, right now it
11:24:25 hurting a lot of people and I'm finding more and more
11:24:27 people are out there looking for some kind of financial
11:24:32 But overall, a lot of good agencies, when we talk about
11:24:36 Jerry's kids and talking about the firefighters and
11:24:38 what they are doing and burn unit and on and on, there
11:24:42 are a lot of good agencies out there.
11:24:44 And with the newspapers, personally, on Sundays, I go
11:24:49 to them because I know these people are trying to
11:24:51 eastern a living, and they are at least working hard to
11:24:57 try to do it the right way.
11:24:59 I would much rather support that than somebody breaking
11:25:01 into my car, you know, trying to sell something illegal
11:25:05 that way.
11:25:06 Yes, sir.
11:25:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What's considered the
11:25:08 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Generally that's the median.
11:25:14 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Median?
11:25:18 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: There's actually two sets of state
11:25:21 law but what I think we are talking about here is when
11:25:24 they are stepping onto the pavement and not standing on
11:25:25 the sidewalk or the grassy area.
11:25:28 One of the things that we have that we could look at --
11:25:34 and Rebecca, if you want a lot of detail on this I can
11:25:36 have Rebecca talk to you about it, but there is a state
11:25:39 statute that basically talks about activities into the
11:25:43 grassy part of the median, on the sidewalk, then what
11:25:47 we are talking about here is whether or not if somebody
11:25:50 can step onto the road and come over and talk to you in
11:25:53 your car.
11:25:55 And so if we had no rule at all, we would follow the
11:25:59 state's standard on this area adjacent to the
11:26:03 right-of-way, and then if we have -- we authorize it,
11:26:06 we have standards for when they step into the area that
11:26:09 the car would actually be driving on.
11:26:13 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: In other words the paved portion
11:26:14 of the highway where the cars actually drive.
11:26:18 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Generally speaking, yes.
11:26:19 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: We have some up in my district
11:26:23 sitting in the middle of the median strip, not on the
11:26:25 paved portion, that's still considered the
11:26:28 We are there with a lawn chair and great big umbrella,
11:26:31 and brings his lunch and he's there all day.
11:26:34 In the middle of the road.
11:26:35 I mean, if a car goes -- has an accident and leaves the
11:26:39 paved portion of the highway, the other day you noticed
11:26:42 he had two sand hill cranes he was feeding.
11:26:45 And they come to him every day.
11:26:51 But anyway.
11:26:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
11:26:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Let me just thank you for bringing
11:26:57 this to us.
11:26:58 I think that what we are interested in is public
11:27:02 I think we are interested in something that's content
11:27:05 And I think that I'm comfortable with the county sort
11:27:10 of taking the lead on this and seeing what they
11:27:12 develop, and then seeing if we feel comfortable with
11:27:15 what they developed.
11:27:16 So that would be my motion.
11:27:25 That was a motion, for us to look at the county with
11:27:30 the eye being safety consideration and content neutral
11:27:32 in terms of the folks who are there.
11:27:35 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second.
11:27:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, again, freedom of
11:27:45 speech or whatever it is the Constitution part is.
11:27:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: First amendment.
11:27:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: First amendment, that we are going
11:27:54 to have a problem in this in a way that you can't tell
11:28:04 newspapers they can't be in the right-of-way, you can't
11:28:05 tell other people they can't be in the right-of-way.
11:28:08 I don't know what the county is going to do.
11:28:09 But I'm not opposed to seeing what they are going to do
11:28:11 before we do something, but I don't want to just tag
11:28:14 along without seeing what they are going to do.
11:28:15 I don't want that to be an assumption that we are going
11:28:18 to do whatever the county does.
11:28:21 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I think what I am hearing is you
11:28:23 would like to us work with the county, would you like
11:28:25 to us develop a set of standards that are content
11:28:27 neutral, that protects public health and safety, in the
11:28:30 right-of-way area, and that we will work with them to
11:28:35 come up with something that is consistent.
11:28:37 Legally, the primary issue is that we treat everyone
11:28:40 the same.
11:28:41 We can either have a prohibition or create standards to
11:28:44 protect health and safety in the public right-of-way
11:28:46 and whether or not the median is the right-of-way, we
11:28:48 can talk about that, but we can do an ordinance that
11:28:50 covers the median, and we will work to include the
11:28:54 medians and whatever standards we develop.
11:28:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:28:57 That's a motion and second by councilman Caetano.
11:29:02 (Motion carried).
11:29:03 Thank you very much.
11:29:04 Item 104.
11:29:12 >> So moved.
11:29:13 >> Second.
11:29:13 (Motion carried).
11:29:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 106.
11:29:18 Ashton Woods.
11:29:23 >>THOM SNELLING: Growth management.
11:29:27 We were asked just by way of quick background, we were
11:29:30 asked to review some of the construction that was done
11:29:33 in the Ashton Woods area just north of MacDill Air
11:29:36 Force Base and as the project relates to some of the
11:29:42 other properties, South Tampa enterprise.
11:29:47 Basically, when we reviewed, our review found there was
11:29:52 an issue with you right-of-way retaining wall along one
11:29:55 of the streets, that some of the historic drainage
11:29:58 patterns may have been affected as well, and there may
11:30:02 be some ability, or the question about the ability to
11:30:05 construct required sidewalks on some of the property.
11:30:07 And there were some on the issues relating to a
11:30:10 commitment letters and a few on the things but I think
11:30:13 most of those have been taken care of so what we are
11:30:15 basically left with is the wall, the drainage patterns
11:30:17 and the sidewalk construction.
11:30:20 On August 27th we met on-site with representatives
11:30:23 from South Tampa enterprises to basically go over and
11:30:27 get a first-hand look of everything that was going on
11:30:29 down there.
11:30:30 We also talked about another portion of their project
11:30:32 and how they had to reactivate some construction
11:30:36 permits, not really related to that but that was also
11:30:40 We talked about the drainage.
11:30:45 How it was pooling in certain areas and everybody kind
11:30:47 of anecdotally knew the wall was probably not in the
11:30:52 right place.
11:30:53 Subsequent to that we had an additional meeting with
11:30:55 Ashton Woods representatives to go over a lot of their
11:30:57 development issues separate and related to this and at
11:31:05 that meeting we told them we thought the wall was in
11:31:08 the wrong spot and what they did do was supply the city
11:31:10 on September 10th, September 11th, provided the
11:31:15 city with a set of as-built construction record service
11:31:18 which basically verified that the wall was indeed 3.6
11:31:22 feet off of the right-of-way line and there was a
11:31:26 hiatus created between the right-of-way retaining wall
11:31:28 and the South Tampa enterprise.
11:31:30 So there is a separation of about 3 feet that needs to
11:31:33 be addressed.
11:31:34 It's been the city's position -- it is the city's
11:31:38 position that we have the legal authority to ask them
11:31:40 to move that wall and to follow the agreement, the
11:31:44 development agreement which specified where that wall
11:31:47 would be located.
11:31:49 We had a subsequent meeting again with South Tampa
11:31:52 enter prices on the 16th, just this past Tuesday,
11:31:55 myself, Susan Johnson legal department, Julia Cole was
11:31:58 in that meeting, and we reviewed these issues with
11:32:01 them, and he would explained what was going on, and
11:32:09 they broached the subject if there's a possibility the
11:32:11 city could waive various impact fees.
11:32:13 And what we said at that time, and wove always
11:32:16 maintained that there's really a prohibition from
11:32:18 waiving impact fees so that was really not an area we
11:32:22 could venture further into.
11:32:23 One of the other things we did talk about though was
11:32:25 the construction of the sidewalk and we are going to
11:32:28 try to figure out if there's something that can be done
11:32:30 to accommodate the construction of the sidewalk in a
11:32:32 manner that's fair and equitable to everybody who is
11:32:35 going to be involved in this.
11:32:36 The drainage usual you is related to the location of
11:32:39 that wall, and now at this point I think the other two
11:32:44 parties will need to get together and to see how they
11:32:48 want to deal with that.
11:32:49 The city will be favorable to whatever is most
11:32:53 beneficial to both parties, the city is not going to
11:32:58 take a hard, hard line on some of this stuff, allow
11:33:01 them to resolve it, but at this point they are going to
11:33:04 have to engage each other in a conversation to try to
11:33:06 work something out between them.
11:33:07 And just making sure that it is done in a legal
11:33:12 That's where we are.
11:33:14 I'll answer any questions you may have.
11:33:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to thank you.
11:33:20 I think we should rename you Soloman because it seems
11:33:23 like this is a very challenging situation, but I think
11:33:26 it's appropriate, because the city ultimately is the
11:33:29 arbiter of public areas for your involvement, and I
11:33:32 know it's taken a lot of energy, but thank you for
11:33:35 trying to figure it out.
11:33:36 >> And we are going to try to wrap it up, too.
11:33:38 >> Our last item for the morning, 107.
11:33:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman, I saw the report from
11:33:49 Cindy Miller and I think that the issue is some of the
11:33:53 current requirements such as it's a restaurant you want
11:34:00 dogs, you have to have an outdoor place to wash hands?
11:34:03 Is that correct?
11:34:03 >> Let me give you the presentation so we understand
11:34:06 where we are as a city.
11:34:09 Catherine Coyle, land development.
11:34:12 As you saw from the memo from Ms. Miller, the Dixie Cup
11:34:14 Clary local control statute 509.23 was adopted.
11:34:18 Subsequently, we adopted section 27-152 last year which
11:34:23 the language basically mirrors the state statute.
11:34:27 Prior to that adoption, and the state statute to allow
11:34:31 these animals in these outdoor areas within the service
11:34:36 establishments, they actually were not allowed there.
11:34:41 There is a strict requirement that you do not have
11:34:43 animals in food service establishments unless they are
11:34:45 service animals essentially.
11:34:47 So without the adoption of the Florida State statute to
11:34:49 allow this, we didn't actually have the ability to
11:34:52 allow it.
11:34:54 What happened was the state statute allowed local
11:34:56 governments to adopt regulations to allow animals to
11:35:00 enter into these areas, basically following the
11:35:04 standards set forth in that statute.
11:35:06 And I gave awe copy of the application that they have
11:35:09 to follow.
11:35:10 And if you look on the first and second page, chapter
11:35:15 27-152, this is the section of the code.
11:35:18 It is -- it mirror it is state regulation.
11:35:23 And I'm glad, it's kind of fitting.
11:35:28 Chair Scott actually mentioned the health department is
11:35:31 the state.
11:35:32 And this is actually a health department issue.
11:35:36 Animals and food.
11:35:37 We actually have no ability to vary those regulations
11:35:42 The only reason we are allowed to allow animals in
11:35:45 these establishments is simply because of the adoption
11:35:47 of the state statute.
11:35:50 We also noted in the memo that we actually hadn't
11:35:53 heard, as of the date of this memo we haven't gotten
11:35:56 any complaints in our particular office, we haven't
11:35:58 received any phone calls or complaints from any
11:36:01 We had one application for 225 east Davis, java cream
11:36:06 which was approved, it met the regulations.
11:36:08 We had another application for MacDinton's at 405 South
11:36:12 We denied it because there is actually a hold on
11:36:16 Their outdoor patio area was put in illegally without
11:36:19 permit so we are not going to issue any permits for
11:36:22 them to occupy that space until they permit it
11:36:25 That was the reason for their denial.
11:36:27 We have actually had nobody else apply for a permit.
11:36:33 >>> John Dingfelder's assistant asked me to ask you, it
11:36:38 says that you are to appear and provide a report and to
11:36:42 contact the restaurant on Davis Island.
11:36:45 Restaurants on Davis Island have these signs saying if
11:36:47 you are angry that your dog can't be here, call City
11:36:50 Council and complain.
11:36:52 So I received complaints, and you believe he has.
11:36:56 So the issue is, I think, there's like a lack of
11:37:00 communication about what's required, and I'm really
11:37:03 pleased that one place has legitimately gotten their
11:37:08 >> Just to make it clear, actually hand delivered
11:37:14 applications to the restaurants that have outdoor
11:37:15 seating areas throughout the city.
11:37:16 >> I believe that they think that what's being required
11:37:20 is onerous.
11:37:21 >> We have in ability to change it.
11:37:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Our rules are no more stringent than
11:37:27 the state's rules?
11:37:29 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:37:30 That's correct.
11:37:30 We were given a limited opportunity under state
11:37:32 regulation, state statute, to allow this.
11:37:36 We modeled our ordinance after directly what is in the
11:37:39 state statute.
11:37:40 We have no abilities to vary it.
11:37:42 Weaver in a ability to do anything different because
11:37:44 these are state regulations relating to allowing pets
11:37:49 in restaurants -- food establishments.
11:37:51 So all we have done is modeled what was in state
11:37:54 statutes, provide for that opportunity within the city,
11:37:58 there is no other opportunity for us to do anything
11:38:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So it would be appropriate as
11:38:03 council to write a letter to these people saying, it
11:38:06 not our fault, at this time state rule, go lobby your
11:38:09 state representative?
11:38:11 >>> If that's something that City Council wants to be
11:38:13 able to do, I think that's appropriate, but for staff
11:38:18 to go out and explain all of this, the only thing that
11:38:21 staff would be able to say is here are our
11:38:23 requirements, if you have a problem with them you need
11:38:25 to go to the state.
11:38:26 And I think it's also important to note that this
11:38:30 provision sun sets next year.
11:38:31 >> So another reason to communicate --
11:38:34 >> They need to communicate this on a state level.
11:38:37 >> I will share that.
11:38:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
11:38:41 Councilman Caetano.
11:38:43 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you, Mr. Miranda.
11:38:46 Ms. Coyle, how many permits do we have issued right now
11:38:49 in the city?
11:38:50 One, you said?
11:38:51 >>CATHERINE COYLE: One.
11:38:52 >> Where is that?
11:38:53 >>> It's in the memo, 225 East Davis Boulevard.
11:38:56 >> I was at a restaurant last week and I saw this
11:38:58 happening, and I know the people sitting next to this
11:39:01 table where the dog was, it was on the outside, in a
11:39:05 patio, they were very uncomfortable because the dog was
11:39:09 not aggressive but he was sort of moving over to the
11:39:11 other table.
11:39:13 I guess he wanted something to eat.
11:39:19 >>> If there are animals at restaurants other than the
11:39:22 one that we have approved, they are in violation of our
11:39:24 code, and also the state law.
11:39:25 >> So it's only outside.
11:39:27 >>> Correct.
11:39:29 >> Unless it's a seeing eye dog.
11:39:31 >>> Yes.
11:39:32 Service animals are allowed.
11:39:33 >> Councilwoman Mulhern.
11:39:36 >>MARY MULHERN: I haven't been hearing from
11:39:39 constituents on this, but Councilwoman Saul-Sena, maybe
11:39:42 could you ask your Davis Islands restaurants to cross
11:39:46 out City Council and write Tallahassee.
11:39:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions on this?
11:39:55 Anything else?
11:39:56 All right.
11:39:58 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
11:40:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:40:01 I would like to clarify, I would like to ask City
11:40:04 Council to officially ask our City Council attorney Mr.
11:40:06 Shelby to work on council's behalf to research ways to
11:40:10 improve our historic preservation rules.
11:40:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A second?
11:40:15 It's been moved and seconded.
11:40:17 Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
11:40:20 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:40:24 Council, we have eight items for this afternoon, eight
11:40:30 I will be leaving early afternoon.
11:40:32 So it's imperative that all of us are back at 1:30.
11:40:35 And then after that, those appeals -- what I'll do is
11:40:42 anybody that wants to continue an item because you will
11:40:44 only have four council persons from 2:00 on.
11:40:47 And that means you have to have everybody voting.
11:40:53 So open up with that.
11:40:54 So that's at 1:30.
11:41:01 Anything else?
11:41:02 If not ---
11:41:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Is that going to be fair to some
11:41:08 of the people coming here?
11:41:10 >> That's why we are going to give them an opportunity
11:41:13 because you may not want to vote with Charlie.
11:41:16 [ Laughter ]
11:41:18 We stand in recess till 1:30.
11:41:22 (City Council meeting in recess)
The preceding represents an unedited version of
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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, September 18, 2008
1:30 p.m. session
The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.
13:32:32 [Sounding gavel]
13:32:33 Tampa City Council will now come to order.
13:32:35 Roll call.
13:32:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
13:32:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
13:32:42 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
13:32:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
13:32:51 Let me just state first of all, we have been waiting
13:32:53 to hear from the Strand decision, and it's my
13:32:58 understanding that has been reversed, the Supreme
13:33:00 Court did reverse themselves which means now we can
13:33:03 move forward with bonding, and so I just wanted to say
13:33:07 And I was hoping somebody from the city attorney would
13:33:10 be here so they can address that issue for us first
13:33:12 thing before we move into our agenda.
13:33:14 But I do have an e-mail to that effect, and just want
13:33:20 to make you aware in case you have not heard.
13:33:22 So the Supreme Court did reverse themselves on the
13:33:24 Strand decision which now allows for the CRA to move
13:33:28 forward bonding, and that will really change the
13:33:31 picture for the City of Tampa.
13:33:35 As far as finances and we will really move forward
13:33:37 with a lot of projects faster.
13:33:39 Thank you on that.
13:33:41 To all of you that are here, we have about eight items
13:33:44 on our agenda.
13:33:46 At 2:00 you will only have four members.
13:33:48 So what I want to do first is find out those who want
13:33:51 to ask for a continuance, if you want to have a
13:33:53 continuance of your item, you need to come forward at
13:33:56 this time, state your name and what case it is so that
13:33:59 we can make sure that we go ahead and set that
13:34:02 continuance, okay?
13:34:03 >>> My name is Joseph Diaz, I'm an attorney in Tampa,
13:34:09 Florida and here on item agenda 109.
13:34:16 I request a continuance on that matter.
13:34:18 I had occasion to speak with Mr. Shelby earlier, and,
13:34:22 if possible, we would request it be heard next
13:34:25 Thursday evening.
13:34:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I don't know what the
13:34:31 other council members agenda are like next Thursday.
13:34:34 I will be in Orlando for two days on a water Congress
13:34:38 committee that I was appointed to, so I will not be
13:34:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
13:34:47 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land Development. Just to remind
13:34:47 you, next Thursday the code amendments were continued
13:34:52 at 5:30.
13:34:53 I think only a couple got continued.
13:34:55 So I don't believe it's a full agenda.
13:34:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
13:34:59 Let me hear from the public, anyone having any issues
13:35:02 with this continuance.
13:35:03 Anyone have an objection to this continuance, want to
13:35:05 speak to this continuance?
13:35:07 Okay, motion on this item?
13:35:09 This is 109.
13:35:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move to continue it to next week.
13:35:13 There should be six council members.
13:35:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: There's only five now.
13:35:23 >> There's only going to be four in a little while.
13:35:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Diaz, Mr. Miranda states there's
13:35:29 only going to be to his knowledge five --
13:35:31 >> What I remember what you read this morning,
13:35:33 Mr. Chairman, I believe one of the council members
13:35:35 says she will not be here for two meetings.
13:35:37 That would include next Thursdays.
13:35:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you wish to have a full council
13:35:41 the date would probably be October 2nd.
13:35:43 >>> I would prefer to have a full council if you have
13:35:46 no objection, Mr. Chairman.
13:35:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the motion would be for October
13:35:50 2nd at 1:30.
13:35:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
13:35:55 >> Second.
13:35:56 (Motion carried).
13:35:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That is a continued public hearing, by
13:35:59 the way, okay?
13:36:00 All right.
13:36:00 >>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
13:36:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 110.
13:36:12 Item 110.
13:36:14 Is the petitioner here?
13:36:15 >>> Did you already handle 108?
13:36:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No.
13:36:25 >> You are asking for continuances.
13:36:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm sorry, come on.
13:36:30 Are you on 108?
13:36:31 Which item are you on?
13:36:32 >>> I'm on 112.
13:36:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, that's been continued already.
13:36:39 111 and 112 could not be heard because the affidavit
13:36:44 was not filed or amended fees were not paid.
13:36:47 >>> I want to speak to that continuance, sir.
13:36:49 >> Okay.
13:36:51 >>> I'm the president of the homeowners association,
13:36:54 carefully arranged my vacation so I could jump off the
13:36:57 boat this morning and be here this afternoon and drag
13:36:59 all my millions with me.
13:37:03 I get here to find out that this has been continued.
13:37:06 Nobody notified me or any of the other officers.
13:37:09 And now it's scheduled for November 20th, which I
13:37:12 won't be in town again.
13:37:15 So I want it rescheduled still again to December.
13:37:21 And a night meeting preferably.
13:37:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, staff needs to come speak to
13:37:25 that, because this was not the board's decision.
13:37:28 This was --
13:37:30 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Speaking about 112?
13:37:32 112 was a misnotice.
13:37:35 There was an e-mail sent from a staff member in my
13:37:37 office, Laura Zakarian of Hill Ward Henderson is
13:37:44 requesting a rescheduling.
13:37:46 It's up to council what date you want to give them.
13:37:48 Petitioner is asking for November but you guys
13:37:50 actually will decide what date to give them.
13:37:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, council did take action
13:37:54 setting this for November 20th F.it wishes to
13:37:57 address this objection and wishes to reconsider its
13:37:59 previous decision it can set it for whatever date it
13:38:02 so chooses but that's what the petitioner requests.
13:38:08 And that's what council had set.
13:38:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But I hear this gentleman he's
13:38:11 requesting a different date.
13:38:13 My question is, do we honor the petitioner or do we
13:38:16 honor someone who is has an issue in the case?
13:38:21 That's the question.
13:38:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I apologize for being out of the
13:38:24 Has this been continued previously?
13:38:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: This was a misnotice, not a continued
13:38:28 public hearing.
13:38:29 Affidavit wasn't filed.
13:38:30 It could not have been heard.
13:38:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My feeling is -- and I just had the
13:38:34 situation happen the other day -- the public makes an
13:38:37 effort to come down here, park, show up, and it's
13:38:39 through no fault of their own that things have been
13:38:43 So I think we should take the neighborhood's concern
13:38:46 into account as we set the date.
13:38:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's been set for November 20.
13:38:52 The only problem is that it was no fault of the
13:38:54 petitioner either.
13:38:58 Don't matter to me.
13:39:00 I'll be here.
13:39:02 >>MARY MULHERN: They were not here today, is that
13:39:04 right? They made these arrangements?
13:39:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's true.
13:39:09 It was the fault of no affidavit of the petitioner
13:39:11 having been filed which caused this to not be able to
13:39:14 be heard.
13:39:14 >>MARY MULHERN: I agree with -- I think that we should
13:39:18 set the date for the hearing when the neighborhood can
13:39:22 be here.
13:39:25 And if the petitioner can't do that, we'll have to
13:39:27 reschedule it again.
13:39:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, the date in December where
13:39:31 you have a night meeting is the evening of December
13:39:35 FHP that's council's decision it would require a
13:39:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's what you requested, December
13:39:40 >> Yes, sir.
13:39:41 That would require, council, the motion to reconsider
13:39:43 its previous decision.
13:39:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to reconsider.
13:39:48 Moved and seconded.
13:39:49 (Motion carried).
13:39:51 New motion.
13:39:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to reschedule this for
13:39:54 December 11th at 6:00 in the evening.
13:39:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
13:39:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That is item 112.
13:40:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: WZ 08-109.
13:40:06 >> Thank you.
13:40:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
13:40:09 (Motion carried).
13:40:13 All right.
13:40:13 Item -- yes, ma'am.
13:40:14 >>> I would like to request a continuance for item
13:40:23 >> Need your name for the record.
13:40:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Asking for all to be present.
13:40:29 What date was that?
13:40:30 >> October 2nd at 1:30.
13:40:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: October 2nd, Mr. Shelby?
13:40:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You presently have two appeal
13:40:42 hearings for 1:30. On the 16th you have three
13:40:45 appeal hearings.
13:40:46 So the second --
13:40:48 The second is all right with you?
13:40:51 >>> We need her name for the record.
13:40:53 >> Nicole Reece.
13:40:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wants to speak
13:40:57 on this continuance?
13:41:00 Do we need to open, Marty?
13:41:03 Do we need to open to continue this?
13:41:05 Yes, okay, motion to open.
13:41:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Move to open.
13:41:09 >> Second.
13:41:09 (Motion carried).
13:41:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can I have a motion?
13:41:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Move to continue this to October
13:41:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
13:41:15 >>MARY MULHERN: 2008.
13:41:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 115.
13:41:23 Moved and seconded.
13:41:24 (Motion carried)
13:41:26 All right.
13:41:28 Anyone else wish to have an item continued?
13:41:30 If you are here and you wish to have an item
13:41:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So for the people who are remaining
13:41:40 in case anybody came in late, you have five council
13:41:42 members present today.
13:41:43 At 2:00 in, 20 minutes you will be down to four
13:41:46 council members present which means that if you do go
13:41:49 forward, it would require a unanimous vote, which is
13:41:52 why we are bringing it to your attention.
13:41:53 If you wish to request a continuance, the time to do
13:41:55 it would be now.
13:41:56 Otherwise, you would only have four council members to
13:41:59 hear your case.
13:42:00 Thank you.
13:42:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 108.
13:42:03 >>CATHERINE COYLE: If I may before you open 108, item
13:42:06 number 117 is an appeal hearing as well.
13:42:09 These petitioners representing themselves, and they
13:42:13 are a very small business, so they weren't too sure on
13:42:16 what was actually happening so I approached them to
13:42:18 ask whether or not they wanted to continue and they
13:42:20 have indicated they would like to be on a hearing date
13:42:22 where there are all members as well.
13:42:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to continue.
13:42:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to open?
13:42:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Move to open.
13:42:31 >> Second.
13:42:31 (Motion carried).
13:42:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 117.
13:42:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to continue to October 2nd
13:42:36 at 1:30.
13:42:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How many is that on October 2nd?
13:42:42 >>> Four.
13:42:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
13:42:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Mueller reminds me one of them is
13:42:47 the marina case with Mr. Grandoff and Mr. Mechanik so
13:42:51 that might be lengthy.
13:42:54 Appeal hearing.
13:42:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
13:42:57 There's a motion and second, Councilwoman Mulhern
13:43:02 seconded that one.
13:43:04 Anyone in the public wish to address council on item
13:43:08 Anyone from the public?
13:43:12 Motion to continue.
13:43:12 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
13:43:14 Opposes, same sign.
13:43:16 So we still have item 116 for this afternoon.
13:43:20 Is that right?
13:43:23 So then just for clean-up we have item 108, item 113,
13:43:32 item 114, item 110 -- I skipped Verizon 110 -- and
13:43:39 item 116.
13:43:40 Those are the remaining items for this afternoon.
13:43:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Five of them.
13:43:46 >>MARY MULHERN: What happened to 109?
13:43:48 >> That was continued.
13:43:49 Mr. Diaz's item.
13:43:55 Motion to open 108.
13:43:57 >> Is so moved.
13:43:58 >> Second.
13:43:59 (Motion carried).
13:43:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: She arrived late.
13:44:03 She would like to ask for a continuance on her case.
13:44:07 >>> I apologize.
13:44:08 I did arrive late.
13:44:09 I am here on item 113.
13:44:13 Seaboard hotel associates.
13:44:14 I understand there's an issue about 2:00 and council
13:44:17 members down to 4 and I would like a continuance.
13:44:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can we open this one, Mr. Shelby?
13:44:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you wish you can take care of this
13:44:26 item first.
13:44:28 >> So moved.
13:44:29 >> Second.
13:44:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you want to continue to next
13:44:33 >>> Yes.
13:44:34 It's my understanding it will be October 2nd, yes?
13:44:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We now have four for that date and
13:44:44 three for the second meeting in October.
13:44:46 Would it be okay to put it the second meeting in
13:44:48 October because I think it's going to be very, very
13:44:53 >>> Yang: The second meeting which --
13:44:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The 16th.
13:44:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: At 1:30, to inform council, you have
13:45:01 two appeal hearings with VRB, one appeal hearing from
13:45:04 a decision of LDC, and you have six additional wet
13:45:08 zonings at 1:30.
13:45:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Oh, then let's make it on the
13:45:12 2nd at 1:30.
13:45:13 >>> Fine. We'll see you on the 2nd. Thank you.
13:45:14 >> Would you put your name on the record?
13:45:17 I'm sorry.
13:45:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
13:45:20 Go ahead and state your name.
13:45:21 >>> Grace Yang, 201 North Franklin Street, Tampa.
13:45:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 113.
13:45:28 Do I hear a motion to continue?
13:45:29 >> So moved.
13:45:30 >> Second.
13:45:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
13:45:33 Opposed same sign.
13:45:36 Anyone else before we move forward?
13:45:39 Anybody that came in late?
13:45:41 Anybody didn't hear?
13:45:47 We already opened item 108.
13:45:49 We will move forward with that.
13:45:50 Item 108.
13:45:51 If you are going to address council, please stand.
13:45:55 If you are going to be speaking, please stand and
13:45:56 raise your right hand.
13:45:57 (Oath administered by Clerk)
13:46:07 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination. This
13:46:10 is located in the Channel District and I have a map I
13:46:12 can put on the overhead.
13:46:17 The petitioner's property is in red and the portion of
13:46:25 the street to be vacated is the in yellow.
13:46:28 This lies between Whiting and Cumberland and runs from
13:46:31 Meridian to 12th Street.
13:46:33 And there has been a couple of previous vacatings in
13:46:38 conjunction with the development that's going on here
13:46:40 that was previously approved rezoning for Seaboard
13:46:44 Square, and they are realigning the road so that it
13:46:47 lines up with 11th street to the north and the
13:46:51 portions in dark green were previously vacated to
13:46:54 accommodate that, but they found when they did some
13:46:57 engineering that they needed more right-of-way, so
13:46:59 there's a petition for that, and the light green
13:47:01 portion, the part they are going to dedicate back to
13:47:05 the city, they are going to rebuild the road, and they
13:47:07 are going to bear the cost.
13:47:09 So staff has no objection as long as easements are
13:47:12 reserved and the petitioner agrees to the
13:47:14 transportation department conditions.
13:47:17 And I have some pictures of the road here.
13:47:20 This is 11th street looking north from Cumberland
13:47:29 This is 11th street looking south.
13:47:33 And this is the petitioner's property looking east
13:47:40 from 11th street.
13:47:43 And petitioner's property looking west from 11th
13:47:46 And this is a -- this will be across the street
13:47:54 directly to the next site.
13:47:56 Like I said, staff has no objections.
13:48:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?
13:48:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I just had one question, because when
13:48:05 vacated -- you did the rezoning and the vacating last
13:48:09 So this has come up in the last week?
13:48:12 >>> No, there was Westbay Homes and they can speak to
13:48:15 that a little more, the petitioner can.
13:48:17 But it's my understanding this was an older rezoning
13:48:23 to construct Seaboard Square.
13:48:26 >>MARY MULHERN: Didn't we just vacate that last week?
13:48:30 It's fine.
13:48:31 I just wonder why we are doing this.
13:48:37 >>> Evan Johnson, north 20th street.
13:48:42 We are representing west bay city homes.
13:48:45 Essentially what happened was, there have been some
13:48:49 changes to the site plan, but this actually goes back
13:48:52 to when we originally vacated the roadway, it was
13:48:58 Z-07-56 which is the older zoning case.
13:49:01 We actually didn't have the appropriate amount of
13:49:04 right-of-way to actually make a jog over there.
13:49:06 So this has been in process for awhile.
13:49:08 We realized our error and that's why we applied for
13:49:11 >> But we voted thon last week.
13:49:13 >> That was different.
13:49:13 >> So it is something that came up in the last week?
13:49:16 >> No, this case has been filed with the city for some
13:49:19 >> No, I mean this little additional piece that we are
13:49:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That was different.
13:49:26 >>MARY MULHERN: It was?
13:49:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
13:49:34 council on -- you can be seated, sir.
13:49:37 Anyone from the public wish to address council?
13:49:39 >> Move to close.
13:49:43 >> Second.
13:49:44 (Motion carried).
13:49:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern?
13:49:50 >>MARY MULHERN: This is 108, right?
13:49:52 >> Yes.
13:49:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an item file number C 08-07
13:49:58 upon first hearing on petition of west bay city homes
13:50:01 LLC to vacate, close, discontinue and abandon a
13:50:05 certain right-of-way, a portion of 11th street
13:50:07 lying south of Whiting Street north of Cumberland
13:50:10 Avenue, west of Channelside Drive and east of Meridian
13:50:13 Avenue in interstate investment company's platinum 4,
13:50:16 a subdivision in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough
13:50:22 County, Florida.
13:50:22 >> Moved and seconded.
13:50:25 Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
13:50:27 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
13:50:30 So moved.
13:50:31 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miller and Dingfelder
13:50:33 being absent.
13:50:34 Second reading of the ordinance will be held October
13:50:37 2nd at 9:30 a.m.
13:50:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 110.
13:50:41 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
13:50:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to open?
13:50:45 >> So moved.
13:50:46 >> Second.
13:50:47 (Motion carried).
13:50:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, yes.
13:50:50 >>CATHERINE COYLE: V 08-70, 2302 and 2306 North Howard
13:51:00 Avenue, Tampa Museum of Art. This is their interim
13:51:04 They are requesting an alcoholic beverage sales
13:51:06 special use for a large venue 4(COP-X) beer, wine and
13:51:09 liquor restricted to on premises construction only.
13:51:13 There is a condition in the ordinance that gives the
13:51:15 alcohol sales must be incidental to a public cultural
13:51:19 facility, that is the use being requested which is
13:51:21 specifically either a library, a museum, some type of
13:51:24 cultural facility run by a government or organization.
13:51:28 There are waivers in the staff report for the distance
13:51:31 of various uses.
13:51:32 I have noted also the hours of operation on page 1
13:51:36 given that there's no kitchen facility.
13:51:39 Page 2 shows the uses within a thousand feet.
13:51:43 Just to remind you of the site which I am sure you are
13:51:46 all aware.
13:51:48 Staff has no objections.
13:51:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?
13:51:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Coyle, I have very little
13:51:57 reservation about the rezoning for the alcohol.
13:52:00 I do have a concern that when you do a building, not
13:52:06 for a day or a year or for two years, for an extremely
13:52:09 long time, is there any part of this petition that it
13:52:20 ceases to end with he they vacate to a new premise?
13:52:23 >>> They fall under just as any other petitioner under
13:52:26 the posting provisions and the extension provisions,
13:52:28 that first 120-day extension and then the subsequent
13:52:31 180 day extension.
13:52:32 I think the good thing that we have here as far as the
13:52:35 use is that it is a public cultural facility.
13:52:38 This is no private organization can come in and take
13:52:41 over this building without coming back to council to
13:52:44 change that condition.
13:52:45 It can only be a government or --
13:52:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to make sure those
13:52:51 bases were covered because when they move to the new
13:52:54 facility I assume they are going to have the same
13:52:57 Apply for the same license.
13:53:01 Thank you very much.
13:53:03 >>> Kathryn O'Donnellly with Holland and Knight, 100
13:53:09 North Tampa Street suite 4100 and I'm here to answer
13:53:13 any questions you might have.
13:53:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
13:53:17 Any questions from council of? Public, anyone from
13:53:20 the public wish to address City Council?
13:53:23 Have you been sworn?
13:53:29 >>> Yes, sir.
13:53:30 Joe Robinson, Palmetto street, a quarter block to
13:53:36 Centro Espanol, and Charlie, I'll be there with you
13:53:40 next week.
13:53:40 I have to go over to the water Congress.
13:53:42 And also on the West Tampa Community Development
13:53:45 Corporation vice chair at the present time.
13:53:50 I'm here to talk about the Centro Espanol, been log at
13:53:54 it all of my life since 1962 from the Scaglione house.
13:53:58 I brought the same question up, Charlie, about where
13:54:00 does this go when they leave.
13:54:01 So they added that cultural issue.
13:54:04 Because the first time to my knowing city's wet zoning
13:54:09 a building they own, wet zoning parks to raise
13:54:13 revenue, so this is a city owned building that you are
13:54:15 wet zoning.
13:54:17 And it's a good one.
13:54:19 I'm here to support it because it's done right.
13:54:23 This is to make money with public building.
13:54:28 This is a cultural aspect. This is the old urban
13:54:30 league building.
13:54:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
13:54:32 >>> These people came in and hooked it up.
13:54:34 As a matter of fact I would like to get it for the
13:54:36 West Tampa CDC or the NAACP, some other organization
13:54:41 like that.
13:54:41 The other thing, I reviewed it.
13:54:44 They are good neighbors.
13:54:46 They have had some events there already.
13:54:49 They have never encroached on parking, even though we
13:54:52 have the park across the street, a church across the
13:54:56 street, there have never been any incidents
13:54:59 whatsoever, and now Joe Robinson would be down here to
13:55:02 give you a sample of approval.
13:55:03 I'm here to support and let these people have the wet
13:55:07 We'll deal we've who gets there afterwards later.
13:55:10 But I want to thank Holland and Knight for staying in
13:55:13 contact with me and looking forward to this cultural,
13:55:16 which I never heard you could do on a 4(COP-X) but I
13:55:19 thought it was ingenious.
13:55:21 I'm here to support it.
13:55:22 And that's all I have got to say.
13:55:24 Charlie, I'll see you next week.
13:55:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You're the man.
13:55:28 You're the man.
13:55:29 Holland and Knight never looked that well.
13:55:31 [ Laughter ]
13:55:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
13:55:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I want to say, the one difference
13:55:37 here, and I support this, it's good, is that this is
13:55:40 not in a park, where children will be playing, that
13:55:44 sort of thing.
13:55:47 Motion to close.
13:55:48 Do we have a second?
13:55:50 >> Second.
13:55:51 >> All in favor signify by saying Aye.
13:55:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved. This is great.
13:55:57 >> Second.
13:56:05 Move this ordinance approving a special use permit S-2
13:56:07 for alcoholic beverage sales, large venue and making
13:56:11 lawful the sale of beverages regardless of alcoholic
13:56:13 content, beer, wine and liquor, 4(COP-X), for
13:56:16 consumption on premises only at or from that certain
13:56:19 lot, plot or tract of land located at 2302 and 2306
13:56:24 North Howard Avenue, Tampa, Florida, as more
13:56:26 particularly described in section 2 hereof, approving
13:56:28 waivers as set forth herein, imposing certain
13:56:31 conditions, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
13:56:33 conflict, providing an effective date.
13:56:35 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
13:56:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
13:56:38 All in favor?
13:56:40 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and Miller
13:56:42 being absent.
13:56:43 Second reading of the ordinance will be held October
13:56:47 2nd at 9:30 a.m.
13:56:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We continued item 113, right?
13:56:57 So 114.
13:56:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved to open the appeal
13:57:01 >> Second.
13:57:02 (Motion carried).
13:57:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right, 114.
13:57:06 >> Dr. George parks and here representing Kelley, and
13:57:17 basically this is an appeal from the VRB, and
13:57:22 basically, just to remind what you the property looks
13:57:34 What she's basically asking for is this a carport, to
13:57:43 cover her car, so that she could oh protect her car.
13:57:54 It's not going to disturb any concrete, not going to
13:57:57 disturb anything of the nature, there's no harm, no
13:58:01 Staff has stated that they really had no objection.
13:58:05 And --
13:58:07 All right.
13:58:07 Let me hear from the attorney.
13:58:10 Let me hear from the attorney.
13:58:11 I understand what you're saying.
13:58:12 I see it.
13:58:13 Council have any questions right now?
13:58:16 Let me hear from the attorney.
13:58:23 >>> Good afternoon.
13:58:26 Mueller, assistant city attorney.
13:58:27 I'm not sure to what degree -- I think you have gotten
13:58:30 the background already on what this case was for the
13:58:33 denial of the variance.
13:58:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: He wants a car cover, what do you call
13:58:40 >>ERNEST MUELLER: The property is located at 3209
13:58:44 north 44th street, and the petitioner and property
13:58:47 owner is Margaret Kelley.
13:58:50 Variance request was to reduce the front yard setback
13:58:53 from 25 feet to 11 feet with the allowed encroachments
13:58:57 for gutters to construct a carport.
13:58:59 And the Variance Review Board denied, voted to deny
13:59:03 the application by a vote of 5 to 2 on the basis that
13:59:07 the hardship criteria set forth in Tampa city code
13:59:10 17.5-74 had not been met.
13:59:15 And the board member making the motion stated that a
13:59:19 concern that the hardship that they were trying to
13:59:22 bring forward was actually self-induced because it
13:59:26 looked as though an existing carport on the north side
13:59:28 of the house had been previously enclosed.
13:59:30 I tell you that because one of my concerns here is
13:59:34 going to be they are going to probably be bringing
13:59:37 forward some evidence that may not have been presented
13:59:39 to the Variance Review Board so we've to be real
13:59:42 careful, because you can't allow any new evidence in
13:59:44 this review.
13:59:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's right.
13:59:46 >>ERNEST MUELLER: I will give you a quick and then
13:59:50 close up with reminding you that when you are
13:59:52 reviewing the Variance Review Board's decision this
13:59:55 council will determine whether there was competent,
13:59:58 substantial evidence in the record to support the
14:00:00 variance review board's decision to deny the variance,
14:00:04 whether the applicant was afforded due process, and
14:00:06 whether the Variance Review Board object served the
14:00:09 essential requirements of the law.
14:00:15 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Mueller?
14:00:17 Were there any opposition at that board?
14:00:22 >>ERNEST MUELLER: There was no opposition at the
14:00:23 Variance Review Board.
14:00:25 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: You said she had another garage
14:00:27 that she enclosed?
14:00:28 >>> They were asked a question whether there had been
14:00:33 an enclosed carport but I believe the answer was yes.
14:00:35 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: There was?
14:00:37 And that's still in existence?
14:00:38 >>> It's still enclosed, yes.
14:00:40 The carport, an existing carport was enclosed and that
14:00:44 is still there.
14:00:44 >> So she wants a new one where you showed that
14:00:46 picture of the car with a cover.
14:00:49 >>> Yes, sir.
14:00:51 >>MARY MULHERN: Mr. Mueller, sorry, don't sit down.
14:00:59 We'll tell you when you can sit down.
14:01:02 I had a question, because I watched the Variance
14:01:05 Review Board hearing, and be the reasoning and the
14:01:14 question wasn't really -- seemed to me that there
14:01:18 wasn't an opportunity that the board didn't ask the
14:01:23 question, other than asking if that had been enclosed.
14:01:30 But it didn't seem like there was an opportunity for
14:01:35 the petitioner to even, you know, answer that as far
14:01:40 as the hardship.
14:01:45 They closed the public hearing and then he stated his
14:01:49 question about it.
14:01:50 And his reasoning.
14:01:55 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Well, I think in answering your
14:01:57 question, one of the board members asked -- I will
14:02:00 even read it.
14:02:01 It's on page 7 of the transcript starting at line 8.
14:02:04 Dr., you may have shown this to us but I missioned it
14:02:09 when you were going through the photos, in the 10 by
14:02:13 20, part of the house on the north side of the house.
14:02:15 Is that currently enclosed, or is it a garage-carport
14:02:20 A Dr. Box answered: It is enclosed.
14:02:25 It is enclosed.
14:02:26 Does that answer your question?
14:02:27 It sounded like you were asking --
14:02:29 >>MARY MULHERN: I guess it's not a question for you.
14:02:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
14:02:41 Anything else you want to add?
14:02:45 >>> Yes.
14:02:46 I want to say this hardship was before -- this has
14:02:50 been there for four years.
14:02:51 I think the answer to your question was, I never did
14:02:54 get a chance to answer.
14:02:56 It was not something that was induced, self-induced.
14:03:00 This was already there, as I show you.
14:03:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can you answer a question?
14:03:06 Was it already there when she moved into the house or
14:03:09 purchased the house?
14:03:11 >>> Yes, sir.
14:03:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So then it wasn't induced by her.
14:03:16 >>> That's exactly what I want to say.
14:03:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you all have another question,
14:03:19 Do you want to add anything else, sir?
14:03:22 >>> No, sir.
14:03:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:03:24 Anyone from the public?
14:03:26 I guess anyone who is part of the record can speak.
14:03:30 Okay, no?
14:03:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like to ask a question.
14:03:33 How did this go before the process, through VRB to
14:03:38 here, when they bought the house that was already
14:03:41 It was already built.
14:03:46 >>MARY MULHERN: No, the new one.
14:03:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The new one?
14:03:52 >> What I'm hearing, she's asking for this so she can
14:03:55 cover her car.
14:03:56 One that was enclosed, she didn't do it.
14:03:58 She bought the house that way, already that way.
14:04:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Remember this is from 24 to 11
14:04:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Is that where the carport was
14:04:14 >> Yes.
14:04:16 >>> could I hear your question again?
14:04:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Since I am looking at this
14:04:27 photograph, and the doctor answered it.
14:04:29 He's saying, what I'm looking at was already there
14:04:31 when she bought the house.
14:04:33 And my question is, is that what we are hearing right
14:04:35 now, that portion of the addition to the house that's
14:04:38 there now?
14:04:39 >>> I believe what they want to do is build a carport
14:04:42 in front of it.
14:04:43 Is that correct?
14:04:44 >>> Yes.
14:04:46 >>ERNEST MUELLER: The setback was 25-foot.
14:04:48 They want to build a carport in front of that which
14:04:50 means it will go into the setback and that's why they
14:04:52 want a reduction in the setback.
14:04:56 Does that answer your question, councilman?
14:05:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14:05:01 I think this is a question of did the Variance Review
14:05:05 Board listen to the evidence properly, and did the
14:05:08 petitioner demonstrate that they had an independent
14:05:15 And it is my feeling that the petitioner knew what she
14:05:21 bought when she bought it, and existing setbacks are
14:05:25 what they are, and there hasn't been anything
14:05:29 demonstrated that would show something unique or --
14:05:33 so, therefore, I'm not going to be able to support the
14:05:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, yes.
14:05:42 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know, but I live in Tampa and
14:05:47 I think it's a hardship not to be able to park your
14:05:49 car under something, because it's really hot.
14:05:52 And I think the petitioner did show a lot of examples
14:05:58 of other houses in that neighborhood that did have
14:06:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But they are set back.
14:06:04 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
14:06:06 But -- I don't know.
14:06:08 I -- I don't think that -- I'm not convinced that they
14:06:15 gave a good enough rationale to deny the variance
14:06:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda, then councilman
14:06:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I am not going to be
14:06:25 too long or too lengthy.
14:06:27 I understand that there's a lot of areas in the city
14:06:29 who have this same type of violation.
14:06:32 However, when you appear and awe reply and you get
14:06:36 denied, then the process kicks in.
14:06:38 I would love to have a double carport in my house.
14:06:42 But I don't have the space to build a carport and
14:06:45 still be 20 feet from the right-of-way, or 25 feet,
14:06:48 whatever the code specifically says in the front.
14:06:51 So I dare not even apply for one, or dare not even put
14:06:55 one up that would make Headline News.
14:06:58 And I just feel like Ms. Saul-Sena in this case that a
14:07:03 hardship is not shown, it would be a detriment thing
14:07:06 on the property or the petitioner.
14:07:08 Unless we change the rules and allow, you know, on new
14:07:14 construction you can build a porch eight feet closer
14:07:18 to the right-of-way.
14:07:19 Am I correct, I think?
14:07:22 That was passed the last three or four years.
14:07:24 However -- and please correct me if I am wrong because
14:07:26 I'm going by memory.
14:07:27 I wasn't here, I was in compile.
14:07:29 But what I'm saying is that if I wanted to do that in
14:07:33 my existing property, I would be prohibited from doing
14:07:36 that, even though a now construction, you can do it,
14:07:39 but not on existing construction.
14:07:41 Can somebody answer that?
14:07:42 Because I really want to know.
14:07:46 The building of a nice porch maybe.
14:07:48 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:07:49 Porches can be added to existing homes.
14:07:51 It is broken down by zoning classification.
14:07:53 RS-50 zoning district -- and I believe RS-60 are
14:07:56 allowed to have the 8-foot encroachment from the
14:07:59 setback for existing or new construction.
14:08:02 Once you hit the RM 75 and the larger district, there
14:08:06 are administrative -- either administrative variance
14:08:09 processor VRB process that you have to follow.
14:08:13 That was the compromise in that procedure.
14:08:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me ask a question here.
14:08:19 Will this protrude into the sidewalk area, into the --
14:08:25 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: No, 11 feet.
14:08:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Nobody on staff?
14:08:32 Do you all know that?
14:08:35 Will this protrude into the sidewalk area?
14:08:41 >>> This is the roadway right here.
14:08:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So it will not go into the sidewalk.
14:08:51 Okay then.
14:08:51 Will it hinder when you are backing out, will she be
14:08:55 able to see oncoming traffic?
14:08:58 I think the answer will be yes, but -- okay.
14:09:04 My follow-up question is, how many of these exist that
14:09:10 we have already allowed in the City of Tampa?
14:09:16 >>> I'm sorry, could you ask that question again?
14:09:18 >> How many of these have we allowed already in the
14:09:21 City of Tampa?
14:09:22 Can you answer that question?
14:09:23 >>> I don't have that answer.
14:09:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anybody else?
14:09:27 See, my problem is, I don't have enough information.
14:09:30 That's number one.
14:09:31 Number two is, you have citizens that say, hey, I just
14:09:36 want to cover my car to protect my car, it's not a
14:09:39 public safety issue, it's not going to block the view
14:09:42 of oncoming traffic, it's not in the right-of-way, not
14:09:45 blocking the sidewalk.
14:09:47 I mean --
14:09:50 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Actually, there is no sidewalk
14:09:52 In the transcript, you have someone from
14:09:54 transportation say that they don't think they are ever
14:09:59 even going to construct a sidewalk.
14:10:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
14:10:01 So, anyway, yes.
14:10:02 >>MARY MULHERN: I might have gotten the appeal tapes
14:10:05 mixed up, but I thought, is this the one where you
14:10:08 said you thought it was on a dead-end street, too?
14:10:12 So there isn't a problem with the backing out.
14:10:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
14:10:15 >>> And it appears there is no visibilities issue.
14:10:17 >>MARY MULHERN: I thought that's what variances were
14:10:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
14:10:22 >>MARY MULHERN: To get --
14:10:23 That's correct.
14:10:24 >>MARY MULHERN: -- variance of the code.
14:10:27 And then I had a question either for you or, I don't
14:10:30 know, for Cathy.
14:10:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Vote on it.
14:10:34 >>MARY MULHERN: The carport, even though it's not
14:10:37 enclosed, they had the same setback as if it were an
14:10:40 actual built addition?
14:10:44 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:10:45 All structures over 36 inches in height have to meet
14:10:49 principal structure setbacks.
14:10:51 We have provision for accessory structures that have
14:10:53 to be actually set back 60 feet from the front
14:10:55 property line so that doesn't include the carport, is
14:10:58 attached to the principal structures, it meets the
14:11:00 front setback requirement which is probably 20 feet.
14:11:03 >> We have one more.
14:11:04 >> I just have a sense that -- it may not have seen
14:11:11 that the petitioner showed a hardship but I don't feel
14:11:13 like they were realized, you know, they didn't get a
14:11:16 chance to realize what the argument against their
14:11:19 request was.
14:11:20 So I think that the Variance Review Board, as much as
14:11:24 the petitioner, didn't present what needed to be
14:11:33 And number 3, and what we are considering is the
14:11:36 variance if grant will not substantially interfere
14:11:41 with the health safety or welfare of others by
14:11:44 allowance of the variance.
14:11:48 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: In view of the fact when she
14:11:50 brought this, she did not have a carport, it was
14:11:53 enclosed, and I would consider it a hardship.
14:11:56 There's no sidewalk.
14:11:57 This is a dead-end.
14:11:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
14:12:00 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: So I could support it.
14:12:02 And maybe Mr. Miranda will change his mind.
14:12:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
14:12:06 Is that a motion?
14:12:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Have we closed the public hearing?
14:12:09 Move to close the public hearing.
14:12:11 >> Second.
14:12:11 (Motion carried).
14:12:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion?
14:12:17 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes, second.
14:12:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, make it.
14:12:20 >>MARY MULHERN: I move to grant the appeal of Margaret
14:12:26 Kelley for these --
14:12:28 Item 114.
14:12:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Item 114, the variance that we give a
14:12:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded. All in
14:12:38 favor signify by saying Aye.
14:12:42 Okay, the motion failed by 3 to 2.
14:12:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Sir, actually what happens is it
14:12:48 requires a vote --
14:12:49 So it continued till when?
14:12:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It comes back at the next regular
14:12:52 council meeting, which will be on October 2nd
14:12:56 at -- it would come under unfinished business, about
14:13:01 10:30 in the morning, and what it would require then
14:13:04 is the --
14:13:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: But there is no more discussion on
14:13:08 this issue.
14:13:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's right, the public hearing is
14:13:11 What will happen at this point is it will appear on
14:13:13 the agenda as unfinished business.
14:13:14 The two absent council members will have an
14:13:16 opportunity to review this tape, review the record,
14:13:18 and council will come back and just vote on the
14:13:20 variance at that time.
14:13:22 Vote on the motion.
14:13:24 So it's continued then to unfinished business on
14:13:28 October 2nd, 2008.
14:13:33 >>> Thank you.
14:13:38 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The public hearing is closed.
14:13:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Now we are at number 116.
14:13:43 Is there a motion to open?
14:13:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
14:13:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: All in favor say Aye.
14:13:49 116 is now open.
14:13:57 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:14:04 Case V-08-25 is an appeal for 2824 fountain Boulevard.
14:14:10 Petitioner's name is Joyce Sierra.
14:14:13 They did request a family residence.
14:14:17 There are two waivers, to increase the allowable unit
14:14:19 size from 600 square feet to 723 for the existing
14:14:22 building, and to decrease the eastern side setback for
14:14:25 the accessory structure from three feet to two feet,
14:14:28 also for the existing conditions.
14:14:30 They are appealing the denial, the zoning
14:14:33 administrator, to utilize the existing structure for
14:14:38 the residence and reduce the setback.
14:14:42 We denied the petition mainly because it didn't meet
14:14:45 those two criteria, the size and the setback.
14:14:49 And you will note at the bottom of the first page and
14:14:51 the top of the second page those two conditions of the
14:14:57 We did find it inconsistent purely on the fact that we
14:15:00 did have to deny it.
14:15:01 Council does have the opportunity through this process
14:15:04 to waive those conditions once the petitioner gives
14:15:08 their presentation.
14:15:09 Just for your understanding, on the south side,
14:15:14 fountain Boulevard, the main structure of the pool.
14:15:15 This is the structure in which the single-family
14:15:20 residence will be housed.
14:15:22 This is the front of the structure.
14:15:27 The driveway.
14:15:28 You can see the structure itself to the rear.
14:15:34 I'm available for any questions.
14:15:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Petitioner?
14:15:38 Come up and give us your name and address.
14:15:42 >>> I'm Joyce Sierra.
14:15:45 I am the resident at 2824 fountain Boulevard.
14:15:49 And do I recap the purpose of my appeal?
14:15:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
14:15:53 >>> To move my 84-year-old mother closer to me so she
14:15:57 can maintain her independence, in the garage and
14:16:01 existing structure so the fourth room of the wall will
14:16:03 not be changed in any way.
14:16:04 However, since it's existing, I am asking for the
14:16:07 usage of the two feet to the east, and also it is
14:16:11 currently 723 square feet already, and I guess the
14:16:16 allowable 600 square feet for a mother-in-law, but
14:16:22 since it's there I'm asking for the purpose to go
14:16:24 ahead and use what I already have.
14:16:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Are there any questions by council?
14:16:29 Anyone in the audience want to speak?
14:16:33 Is there a motion to close?
14:16:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
14:16:36 >> Second.
14:16:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Motion and second to close the
14:16:39 public hearing.
14:16:39 (Motion carried).
14:16:41 What is the mood of council?
14:16:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, every one that comes here in
14:16:46 an appeal hearing is different.
14:16:48 They all have their facts.
14:16:50 Here is an existing structure that you are not going
14:16:52 to add to.
14:16:53 >>> No, sir.
14:16:53 >> You are not going to change the dimension of the
14:16:56 >>> No, sir.
14:16:56 >> And what you are going to do instead of having what
14:16:59 you have in there now, you are going to have a person,
14:17:03 a relative that's 84 years old living there.
14:17:06 Am I correct?
14:17:06 >>> Yes, sir, exactly.
14:17:09 >> I move for approval.
14:17:10 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second.
14:17:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Any discussion?
14:17:12 All those in favor say Aye.
14:17:13 >>> Thank you.
14:17:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Passed unanimously.
14:17:16 Is there any other new business?
14:17:19 >>REBECCA KERT: We actually have an ordinance and I
14:17:21 have one prepared if you would like to read it.
14:17:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Give to the Mr. Miranda.
14:17:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move an ordinance approving a
14:17:34 special use permit S-1 on appeal from a decision of
14:17:37 the zoning administrator permitting an extended family
14:17:41 residence in an R-S 50 residential single-family
14:17:42 zoning district in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
14:17:44 particularly described in section 1 thereof approving
14:17:47 waivers set forth providing an effective date.
14:17:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: There's been a motion and second.
14:17:51 Any discussion?
14:17:51 All in favor say Aye.
14:17:52 (Motion carried).
14:17:54 Any other new business?
14:17:55 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miller and Dingfelder
14:17:57 being absent, and Scott being absent at vote.
14:18:01 Second reading of the ordinance will be held October
14:18:04 2nd at 9:30 a.m.
14:18:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
14:18:07 >>MARY MULHERN: I have some new business.
14:18:10 One, this is for anyone at home that happens to be
14:18:15 watching this, either from the Palmetto Beach
14:18:19 neighborhood or from the Egypt lake neighborhood.
14:18:25 TECO, or Tampa Electric Company, is holding a public
14:18:29 hearing tonight, Thursday, September 18th, from
14:18:33 6:30 to 8 p.m., at DeSoto Park activity center, 2617
14:18:40 east CURREN street.
14:18:44 I thought that just to make sure that everyone had the
14:18:47 opportunity to know that it's about their plans to
14:18:51 replace existing electric poles with the larger type
14:18:57 of poles that were installed a couple years ago in
14:19:01 Egypt lake.
14:19:02 So one of the reasons I wanted to bring this up is I
14:19:05 thought that maybe some of the people from Egypt lake
14:19:08 might want to go and testify to the Palmetto Beach
14:19:13 neighborhood what those are actually like.
14:19:18 I just wanted to make that more public.
14:19:22 And I know that TECO has notified all the people in
14:19:25 Palmetto Beach, which mentioned it again.
14:19:30 I wanted to remind people that tomorrow at 10:00, the
14:19:34 wheel-a-thon is happening at MacFarlane park, Freedom
14:19:41 Playground and they would like to have any of us
14:19:44 And I don't think anyone else brought this up, so if
14:19:48 they did I'll stop.
14:19:49 On behalf of growth management development services --
14:19:56 >> We did, the 30-minute workshop.
14:19:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
14:20:00 Did we address the October 23rd workshop?
14:20:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
14:20:05 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
14:20:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I have nothing.
14:20:10 You are doing a great job.
14:20:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Miranda, nothing.
14:20:16 Nothing from me.
14:20:17 Is there a motion to receive and file?
14:20:19 >> So moved.
14:20:20 >> Second.
14:20:20 (Motion carried)
14:20:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We are adjourned.
14:20:25 (City Council meeting adjourned)
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