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Tampa City Council
Thursday, October 16, 2008
9:00 a.m.

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[Sounding gavel]
09:03:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
09:03:10 order.
09:03:10 And the chairman will yield to the honorable Linda
09:03:14 Saul-Sena.
09:03:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Good morning.
09:03:17 It is my great pleasure this morning and privilege to
09:03:19 introduce rabbi Richard Birnholz, the senior rabbi.
09:03:27 I belong to the congregation and it's been my pleasure
09:03:30 to see Rabbi Birnholz in action over the past few

09:03:35 decades.
09:03:36 He's been a wonderful leader not only within our
09:03:38 congregation but in our community and it's our
09:03:41 pleasure to have him join us this morning at Tampa
09:03:43 City Council to lead us in prayer.
09:03:45 Let us all rise and follow the prayer with the pledge
09:03:48 of allegiance.
09:03:49 >>> Thank you, Linda.
09:03:52 Thanks for being such a great role model for all of
09:03:54 us.
09:03:55 Let us pray.
09:03:56 Almighty God in, these days when there are all too
09:03:58 many people going in too much of a hurry in too many
09:04:02 directions, we welcome such a moment as this when
09:04:06 together we can pause and take a deep spiritual
09:04:08 breath.
09:04:09 At this gathering of our City Council, we pray that
09:04:12 the commitment to erase big on the try, abolish
09:04:17 poverty and end in justice will always be at the
09:04:21 forefront of our sacred agendas.
09:04:23 We thank you for our City Council members and for the
09:04:25 vision and foresight they bring to their task.

09:04:29 Let them know the reward of their success, and help
09:04:32 them feel our gratitude for the sacrifices they make
09:04:36 on our behalf.
09:04:38 Help them to make light of obstacles, to return
09:04:43 criticism to constructive ends.
09:04:45 Keep them ever conscious of the high purpose to which
09:04:47 they have dedicated their lives.
09:04:50 In this time of hardship, also be with all our
09:04:53 citizens.
09:04:54 Give them ease of mind and great courage to endure the
09:04:58 difficulties they face.
09:05:00 Let them know that because we are all God's children,
09:05:04 we get the greatest amount of help by being there for
09:05:11 each other.
09:05:12 Blessed are you, O God, who is the hearer of men.
09:05:17 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:05:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Rabbi.
09:05:35 Thank you for being here and for your coming today and
09:05:37 doing the invocation.
09:05:46 Also, before we have roll call, I want to recognize
09:05:49 officer Danny Miller, who had his birthday on October
09:05:53 12th.

09:05:55 So we want to say happy birthday to him.
09:05:58 As you very well know, council, he also covers this
09:06:03 council chambers so he would want don't say happy
09:06:06 birthday to officer Don Miller.
09:06:11 We are going to have roll call.
09:06:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:06:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:06:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:06:18 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:06:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:06:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Also I know that councilman Mary
09:06:30 Mulhern will not be here.
09:06:31 I don't know if she has provided it to the clerk.
09:06:36 I just want to mention that she won't be here, that
09:06:38 she's out of town with her mother, her mother being
09:06:41 ill.
09:06:42 They are having surgery.
09:06:43 So just want to let everyone know.
09:06:46 Certainly our prayers are with her and with her mother
09:06:48 on this day.
09:06:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Before we start I do have a memorandum
09:06:52 she won't be here for the CRA either.

09:06:54 I'll put that in the record.
09:06:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll have review of the agenda.
09:07:01 >>> Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of City
09:07:03 Council this morning.
09:07:04 You have a rather lengthy and complicated agenda.
09:07:09 I'd like to be able to go through the agenda now so we
09:07:17 can discuss changes.
09:07:18 You have a request from Cynthia Miller, director of
09:07:21 growth management services to make a five minute
09:07:23 presentation today regarding the process for the
09:07:26 neighborhood stabilization program under staff
09:07:28 reports.
09:07:28 So as part of the motion it would be to add that to
09:07:32 the staff report.
09:07:34 Council, I believe members of council have received a
09:07:38 request by Chairman Scott to discuss the city charter
09:07:41 amendment under the new business section of council.
09:07:43 I bring that to your attention.
09:07:45 Council, you also have Julia Cole who would like to
09:07:48 walk on some changes with regard to items that are on
09:07:53 the agenda, item 75 through, I believe, 85.
09:07:59 If I am not mistaken.

09:08:00 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
09:08:06 I wanted to substitute making changes to some upon
09:08:12 which we are setting a public hearing startling with
09:08:20 agenda item 74, and I will give the clerk any
09:08:22 resolutions that need to be changed.
09:08:24 Item number 74 as opposed to having that going on that
09:08:28 November 13th, 2008, at 5:30, a resolution to have
09:08:34 that go on first reading on December 11, 2008 at 5:01
09:08:42 with second reading on January 8th, 2009, at 9:30.
09:08:48 I don't know if you want me to run through them all.
09:08:49 Agenda item number 75, I am going to be
09:08:52 substituting -- or requesting that you have that
09:08:54 resolution scheduling that particular public hearing
09:08:57 as opposed to having first reading starting at 5:30.
09:09:01 We have first reading starting at 5:01.
09:09:05 Agenda item number 76, that resolution setting a
09:09:08 public hearing.
09:09:09 We are going to keep the date of November 13, 2008, by
09:09:12 everything that scheduled to start at 5:01.
09:09:18 Agenda item number 77, I am going to be substituting a
09:09:20 resolution in order to have the CRA scheduled for
09:09:24 December 11, 2008, at 5:01 with second reading on

09:09:31 January 8, 2009 at 9:30.
09:09:37 Agenda item 7 I am going to be requesting the time of
09:09:39 that November 13th, 2008 hearing start at 5:01.
09:09:47 Agenda item 79, I am going to substitute the
09:09:49 resolution to have that CRA go on December 11th,
09:09:53 2008 at 5:30, with second reading on January 8, 2009
09:09:59 at 9:30.
09:10:02 Agenda item number 80 I am going to be substituting
09:10:04 the resolution to have that hearing go on December 11,
09:10:09 2008, at 5:30 with second reading on January 8, 2009,
09:10:14 at 9:30.
09:10:16 Agenda item number 81, I am going to be substituting
09:10:19 the resolution to have that hearing scheduled for
09:10:22 December 11, 2008, at 5:30 with second reading on
09:10:27 January 8, 2009 at 9:30.
09:10:35 Agenda item 82 I am going to substitute the resolution
09:10:37 to have that hearing go on December 11, 2008, at 5:30,
09:10:45 with -- I'm sorry, January 2009 at 9:30.
09:10:52 Agenda item 81, I am going to be substituting a
09:10:54 resolution to have that hearing go on December 11,
09:10:59 2008, at 5:30 with second reading January 8, 2009 at
09:11:04 9:30.

09:11:06 Agenda item 84, I'm going to be requesting that the
09:11:10 time of that November 13, 2008 hearing start at 5:01.
09:11:15 Agenda item number 85, that's fine.
09:11:22 Thank you very much.
09:11:22 I'll go ahead and get the resolutions to the clerk.
09:11:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why don't you write them all down?
09:11:33 >>JULIA COLE: I stated those for the record.
09:11:40 >>> (off microphone)
09:11:42 Item 32 is a request to add an exhibit to the
09:11:53 resolution that was inadvertently added to the
09:11:55 resolution.
09:11:58 Item 86, 95 and 96 are requests by assistant city
09:12:03 attorney Cole to substitute the resolution to those
09:12:06 ordinances chapter 17.5, chapter 27 parking, chapter
09:12:10 27 zoning, and that was council's to refresh your
09:12:14 recollection read on the first reading but directions
09:12:17 as per council's recommendation and also to correct
09:12:21 the effective date.
09:12:22 With regard to item 21, you have a request for Brad
09:12:27 Baird to remove this item, this resolution, from the
09:12:29 agenda.
09:12:31 On item 97, you have a request from parks and

09:12:35 recreation for continuance to November 6th, 2008
09:12:39 of the staff report.
09:12:42 Item 117, an item that is time certain.
09:12:44 That's going to be a request for a continuance, V
09:12:50 08-91.
09:12:52 And that will be a request by the petitioner at that
09:12:55 time when that matter is taken up at 1:30.
09:13:00 Council, just as a reminder, staff reports are set for
09:13:03 a time certain at 10:30 a.m., and a reminder, which is
09:13:08 a change, you do have a CRA meeting Community
09:13:13 Redevelopment Agency meeting scheduled to begin at 11
09:13:16 a.m
09:13:17 I just bring that to the public's attention as well.
09:13:21 I have no knowledge of any other items to the consent
09:13:27 docket.
09:13:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Wait a minute.
09:13:28 I sent a memo saying I thought we were pulling the one
09:13:31 I have under staff reports.
09:13:39 Number 105.
09:13:40 Just so it be received and filed.
09:13:42 I guess we can do that under time certain.
09:13:44 That's fine.

09:13:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry I didn't bring this to
09:13:50 council's attention.
09:13:51 For the public discussion, or for the public
09:13:53 knowledge, the item regarding the waterfront lot
09:13:56 regulations item 105, memorandum by council member
09:14:02 Saul-Sena, it's the intention of the maker of the
09:14:04 motion that no action be taken on the matter today
09:14:06 other than setting a date to discuss the item in the
09:14:08 future.
09:14:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And I Do really don't have a date
09:14:10 in the future so I would be happy just receiving and
09:14:12 filing that.
09:14:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: When we can get to it, you can do
09:14:18 that.
09:14:19 Councilman Dingfelder.
09:14:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I had some computer problem
09:14:22 yesterday and was unable to get you all a memo, but I
09:14:27 wanted to pull for discussion during staff report item
09:14:32 7, 16 -- 7 and 16.
09:14:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 7 and 16.
09:14:42 >> 16 is a WMBE question and 7 is an aquarium
09:14:47 agreement.

09:14:48 Whatever staff wants to show up for that.
09:14:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Now you know what I go through, Mr.
09:14:53 Dingfelder.
09:14:53 I don't have a computer.
09:14:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other items to be pulled?
09:14:57 Motion to move all the changes.
09:14:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
09:15:02 >> Second.
09:15:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:15:07 Opposed same sign.
09:15:08 Okay.
09:15:08 We will take public comment.
09:15:11 30 minutes has been allocated, set aside.
09:15:14 Let me also say on item 99, I believe it is, item 99,
09:15:23 which is the appearance by the chief of police,
09:15:29 there's some discussion that the chief will not
09:15:30 appear.
09:15:31 But a written report has been submitted.
09:15:34 So that report will be May made available to all of
09:15:36 the persons who would like a copy of that report.
09:15:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Irv informed by the clerk it is
09:15:42 presently available, copies of the report are present

09:15:44 at the front of the dais.
09:15:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: When we get to the item, I believe
09:15:49 it's important for us to give overall summary.
09:15:54 We have been advised by council attorney we have to be
09:15:57 careful about the names and that sort of thing.
09:15:59 But we do have that report.
09:16:00 So when we come to that item, we can give an overall
09:16:03 summary from that.
09:16:05 All right, thank you.
09:16:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just so people understand that you
09:16:09 will not be taking public comment for that at that
09:16:12 time.
09:16:13 So anybody who wishes to discuss that item or any
09:16:15 other item can do it during public comment.
09:16:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You can do that during this time now
09:16:26 if anyone wants to discuss that item.
09:16:28 You have three minutes.
09:16:28 You can come state your name and address for the
09:16:31 record, please.
09:16:33 >>> Good morning.
09:16:34 My name is Wofford Johnson, 465 Longfellow Avenue.
09:16:38 And I come before you as president of T.H.A.N.

09:16:42 On behalf of T.H.A.N. and all its members, I want to
09:16:48 thank council for adopting the resolution, requesting
09:16:50 that the TECO rate increase be denied at this time.
09:16:56 We know you don't make that decision on utility
09:17:00 company rate increases.
09:17:02 However, your opinion before the PSC, Public Service
09:17:04 Commission, is meaningful and powerful.
09:17:08 We don't begrudge TECO for making a profit.
09:17:10 We just feel that the rate increase request is too
09:17:13 much in today's economy.
09:17:17 Any increase needed should be spread over several
09:17:20 years.
09:17:20 We must not forget, and we hope the PSC will not
09:17:24 forget, that the average citizen at this point is
09:17:31 feeling a major pinch financially.
09:17:33 I've heard that the proposed rate increase will add as
09:17:37 much as $20 million to the school system budget.
09:17:41 That will also impact the budget of all tax supported
09:17:46 governments and organizations.
09:17:48 And we know who ultimately pays those bills.
09:17:52 It's the tax paying citizen of Tampa.
09:17:55 Again, thank you for standing up for our citizens.

09:17:58 Thank you.
09:18:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:18:07 >>> My name is P.J. meadows, I live at 1204 east
09:18:11 Clifton street in Tampa and I also want to echo will
09:18:17 Ford's comments in that regard and say thank you for
09:18:21 putting Ford your -- forward your resolution.
09:18:24 I am a new resident of Tampa, from Chicago.
09:18:28 I have recently become active in Old Seminole Heights
09:18:30 association.
09:18:31 I'm not on their behalf right now but as a citizen.
09:18:34 I'm a member and co-founder of the community
09:18:37 information and outreach committee, which is reaching
09:18:39 out to our citizens in the very diverse and lovely
09:18:45 areas of our neighborhood to understand recently, this
09:18:48 was just prior to TECO. What are the concerns for the
09:18:53 economy, their hopes and concerns for children,
09:18:56 struggles, living on limited income, retired teachers,
09:19:01 former policemen, former electricians, and many of
09:19:04 them are wonderful families who struggle and this will
09:19:09 be a very difficult increase now down to 21%.
09:19:13 I know that again you do not have direct influence
09:19:16 over TECO, but your continued support and proactive on

09:19:20 behalf of all the citizens is very important.
09:19:22 And I also thank you for proposing or putting forward
09:19:25 the upcoming workshop.
09:19:27 I think it's very important to reach out and
09:19:30 understand what are the other factors that are at play
09:19:33 in terms of utilities today, in energy, and how it
09:19:36 affects the city and operations, our goals for
09:19:39 sustainability, and many other things.
09:19:41 So, again, I thank you for your visioning, your
09:19:45 proactive efforts in this regard.
09:19:56 >>> Janell Hanson, Channel District, 101 south 12th
09:20:00 Street.
09:20:01 I'm here today to ask your assistance for our
09:20:03 neighborhood in the Channel District and possibly
09:20:04 other neighborhoods of the city.
09:20:07 It has been discovered that the petitioning for zoning
09:20:10 whether it be for any type of development zoning
09:20:13 including wet zoning, that when the application for
09:20:17 neighborhood associations to be notified, the zoning
09:20:20 department is referring to the listed map
09:20:27 electronically, that right now still has the
09:20:29 deactivated Channel District council on it, with

09:20:32 Jeanie White, any notification.
09:20:36 Therefore, even though we do have a mentor with Hyde
09:20:40 Park, Shannon Edge, neighborhood and zoning has been
09:20:43 aware of this since February of this year, we have not
09:20:45 been made aware of zoning since it's come to light
09:20:49 thanks to Historic Hyde Park, we have been working
09:20:51 with zoning and with the neighborhood to get this
09:20:54 fixed.
09:20:54 Right now there seems to be a lot of bureaucracy
09:20:57 between the two to amend it.
09:20:58 So I am here to ask for your assistance, and would you
09:21:01 please intervene with then chaos and ensure that
09:21:05 zoning does accurately, on the petition, populate the
09:21:08 correct either mentor, who is mentoring us, or they
09:21:12 can reach out to our neighborhood directly, because it
09:21:14 is on file.
09:21:15 Right now Scott Humphries is the contact as well.
09:21:20 So as an action item, is it possible for you to
09:21:23 intervene and do this by going forward, we can work
09:21:26 positively with all development?
09:21:27 We have always been very proactive.
09:21:29 We have had a solid, strong, good relationship, and

09:21:33 it's unfortunate to have these rezonings coming
09:21:37 forward in our community.
09:21:38 We have a number of them, I understand, right now
09:21:40 coming forward, that have been unbeknownst to us until
09:21:43 we finally were active with our mentorship.
09:21:47 Will you be able to do it for us?
09:21:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm sort of confused on what the
09:21:53 issue. Is Jeanne White is no longer involved?
09:21:57 >>> As of December last year, they dissolved
09:22:01 themselves.
09:22:02 They have until March to refile their paperwork, which
09:22:05 they did not.
09:22:08 In February, that's when you first saw me in front of
09:22:11 City Council to assist us, as when we did two years
09:22:14 ago, to intervene for communication, which you did,
09:22:18 very kindly, and Linda Saul-Sena very actively showed
09:22:22 up at our neighborhood.
09:22:23 We have been having pow-wows.
09:22:26 We started committees.
09:22:26 We have a mentorship.
09:22:28 We are updating Shannon Edge on all of. This but for
09:22:30 some reason we were never communicated anything about

09:22:33 zoning and were everyone told there was no zoning by
09:22:36 Bob McDonough, the CRA manager who shows up, though it
09:22:40 is not his responsibility, and are reaching out to
09:22:43 zoning.
09:22:44 They happen happened to have a gap and not notified us
09:22:50 about -- they said, do you realize there's zoning
09:22:55 going on?
09:22:56 In the same week also told other people you have
09:22:59 zoning hitting us that is going to come to you.
09:23:02 And in talking to zoning they said there's a glitch on
09:23:05 the paperwork.
09:23:05 We go to the map.
09:23:08 And if they are not in the map, sorry.
09:23:10 Shannon responds, oh, nothing is formally filed yet
09:23:15 because they have three people there defining
09:23:20 guidelines differently in her department.
09:23:22 We need to let the developers know that they can come
09:23:25 speak to the neighborhood.
09:23:26 We do exist.
09:23:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I wouldn't want to step on anybody
09:23:36 else's toes because it's not my district but, you
09:23:39 know, our procedure is such that the code says we send

09:23:44 out a notice to the neighborhood, to the active
09:23:47 neighborhood association.
09:23:48 And that's the list that Shannon keeps.
09:23:50 So the developer goes to Shannon, finds out how the
09:23:55 active neighborhood association is, regardless whether
09:23:57 it's Channelside or anyone else.
09:23:59 What you are saying is you have no active neighborhood
09:24:01 association under Shannon's guidelines.
09:24:04 That's the problem.
09:24:05 >>> Actually, if I may, since there is no active one
09:24:11 accepted by Shannon, then it should be blank because
09:24:13 there is no actives.
09:24:14 Correct.
09:24:16 But it's not blank.
09:24:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, as council it is our policy to
09:24:20 take public comment and not engage in a long
09:24:22 discussion.
09:24:23 What I would suggest is we have staff to take a look
09:24:25 at it and report back to us.
09:24:27 That would be my suggestion.
09:24:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move that we get a report back in
09:24:35 two weeks, and I'll work with Shannon to come up with

09:24:37 some better mechanism for notifying you.
09:24:41 I move that there be a staff report.
09:24:44 >>> And will we be able to follow up with our
09:24:47 neighborhood?
09:24:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
09:24:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And that would be on November
09:24:51 6th, our next regular meeting?
09:24:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
09:24:54 In writing.
09:24:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:24:57 (Motion carried)
09:24:59 Okay.
09:25:01 And I just want to say, council, you know, part of our
09:25:04 rule is to hear public comment and not engage in a
09:25:07 debate.
09:25:08 That prolongs the 30 minutes which gets into our long
09:25:10 agenda.
09:25:10 So we really just need to hear from the community.
09:25:14 Okay?
09:25:14 Thank you.
09:25:15 >>> Good morning.
09:25:16 My name is Michelle Williams, P.O. Box 1295, Valrico

09:25:21 Florida, 33595, and active community leader and
09:25:26 community activist.
09:25:29 What brings me before the City Council today is agenda
09:25:32 item number 99.
09:25:42 The Tampa housing authority and Tampa Police
09:25:44 Department has an agreement signed by the mayor, and
09:25:47 it's so unfortunate that they were unable to come this
09:25:50 morning, but I have already met with them on several
09:25:52 occasions over at the police department.
09:25:55 The offices that are plaguing the African-American
09:25:59 community in the different housing areas, and the
09:26:01 racial profiling that's going on, just not with the
09:26:10 African-American community, but if you're poor and
09:26:11 you're driving, you're subject to be part of the
09:26:11 special agreement that they have.
09:26:12 These gentlemen -- these officers are making $41.42 an
09:26:15 hour again signed off by the mayor.
09:26:20 There are 9,860 hours in a year. More than 6,931 of
09:26:27 those hours means that we have offices that have
09:26:31 signed up for this special agreement to harass the
09:26:33 public so that this grant that was signed by the mayor
09:26:37 is justified for the funding that she received.

09:26:41 Now, the grant is supposed to be up for renewal on
09:26:43 September 30, 2008.
09:26:46 Thus far, I have been doing my job because they have
09:26:48 not been able to apply for it because the arrests that
09:26:51 they have to make, they have to be justifiable.
09:26:53 I believe that one of the community leaders also
09:26:57 that's present behind me standing to wait for their
09:27:01 comments, we have records of how many African-American
09:27:05 males, Hispanics, anybody except the Caucasian family,
09:27:09 is not being arrested and being trespassed in a
09:27:13 different housing authority property.
09:27:14 We have a separation, when we have officers telling
09:27:18 young men and young women, Oh, I know that your son,
09:27:24 your daughter, wants to come over here, but guess
09:27:26 what, it's not going to be so.
09:27:27 This is not right.
09:27:30 I'm before this council this morning.
09:27:32 If we don't effectively work together to do something
09:27:35 about this, it's only going to get worse, because I
09:27:37 have young men that have walked into my office and
09:27:40 have blatantly told me, Ms. Williams, I have nothing
09:27:42 to lose.

09:27:43 When a man's back is up against the wall, I don't want
09:27:46 to see the chaos that comes out.
09:27:48 But what I am going to do, I am going to calm my
09:27:52 people and let them know that change is coming.
09:27:54 I'm not waiting for Barack Obama.
09:27:56 I'm doing it myself.
09:27:59 If we don't come together effectively as a whole, and
09:28:04 as a political body in the City of Tampa and
09:28:07 Hillsborough County, be ready for the destruction.
09:28:19 >> My name is Laura Bell Harris, 1515 West Union
09:28:22 Street, Tampa, Florida.
09:28:24 It is a public housing development known as the Mary
09:28:29 McCloud Bethune home.
09:28:31 I am so grateful that the last time I was here, I
09:28:36 accidentally left my umbrella, but the matter I
09:28:40 brought before the council, I was fortunate in that
09:28:42 because I left my umbrella, Councilwoman Saul-Sena was
09:28:47 able to let me know that those matters would be heard
09:28:50 today in this council meeting.
09:28:53 Now, sometimes people do things in good faith, and
09:28:58 they get the bad end of it.
09:28:59 I really believe that that is what is happening where

09:29:04 the Tampa housing authority board of commissioners is
09:29:09 concerned where the mayor actually assigns or appoints
09:29:15 someone to serve on that board, and then there is no
09:29:17 oversight from the mayor's office, because I believe
09:29:21 she genuinely expects these people to do the right
09:29:24 thing and she trusts that they will.
09:29:27 It is simply not happening.
09:29:28 So when the real truth comes out, it's going to be
09:29:31 very embarrassing to the mayor.
09:29:35 I was in a meeting, 45 minutes or more meeting with
09:29:40 the chairman of the board of commissioners and the
09:29:46 heads of department of Tampa housing, and we were
09:29:49 talking about the 964 regs which govern our people who
09:29:54 live in public housing, and the chairman said, well, I
09:29:57 have to confess, I don't even know what the regs are.
09:30:00 I mean, that's dangerous, and it's scary.
09:30:04 It's kind of like a pastor trying to lead a
09:30:08 congregation with no Bible knowledge, it's just very
09:30:11 scary and very dangerous.
09:30:16 We have these regs and they are in place when they
09:30:18 make their reports to HUD, they say we have
09:30:21 jurisdiction, wise resident counsel.

09:30:26 It is not true.
09:30:27 They don't have much of the -- most of the property
09:30:30 sufficiently set with resident counsel.
09:30:34 A number of times we have been for bid tone meet at my
09:30:38 property simply because of the people who I was
09:30:40 inviting, and the meeting was a community awareness
09:30:43 meeting.
09:30:45 I would just hope that someone would get the mayor's
09:30:49 ear and let her know of this impending embarrassment
09:30:54 that's about to come upon her simply because she
09:30:57 trusts Mr. Jerome Ryan, Hazel Harvey, the other people
09:31:02 who serve on the committee.
09:31:03 Yesterday, attorney Scriggins asked about the report.
09:31:13 There was a lot soliloquy by Jerome Ryans.
09:31:19 We talked about the homeless, the poor.
09:31:22 The answer never came.
09:31:24 It never came.
09:31:25 Thank you so much for your time.
09:31:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:31:44 >>> Pete Johnson, 301 Druid hills.
09:31:48 I'm always here talking about code enforcement.
09:31:52 This is a letter that I emailed to you.

09:31:55 I don't have a date on it but it was several weeks
09:31:57 ago.
09:31:58 It had to do with the hearing that you had about the
09:32:01 VRB overriding on Nebraska.
09:32:07 What's done is done.
09:32:08 We can't do anything about it.
09:32:10 We can take it to circuit court.
09:32:14 So I was very, very upset with the ruling, because it
09:32:20 made a precedent to other people to come before the
09:32:24 City Council, request the City Council for a variance.
09:32:27 I did my research.
09:32:31 As you can see here, there were six properties on
09:32:35 Nebraska that have barbed wire.
09:32:38 You approved Kent-Nebraska.
09:32:41 You also have all the TPD reports for those six
09:32:44 addresses.
09:32:45 Not one activity involved breaking and entering or
09:32:51 stolen or private property.
09:32:55 Now if someone is going to steal something they aren't
09:32:58 going to climb over a six foot fence and carry it back
09:33:01 over.
09:33:01 They are going to cut through the chain link fence.

09:33:04 Barbed wire does not have any reason to be in the City
09:33:06 of Tampa whatsoever.
09:33:09 I mean, it looks like a concentration camp.
09:33:12 So I was extremely disappointed in the unanimous
09:33:15 decision to approve this.
09:33:20 This is a list of properties that have been brought
09:33:26 into compliance by our code enforcement department.
09:33:30 Not one of those addresses, from what I can tell, had
09:33:35 any breaking and entering since then.
09:33:39 My own problem is when I go to TPD, each address costs
09:33:44 me three dollars.
09:33:45 So it gets very expensive.
09:33:53 These are government regulations that address other
09:33:55 things to do rather than barbed wire.
09:34:01 There's a lot of things that can be done.
09:34:04 My next-to-final page -- I am trying to watch my time
09:34:09 here -- these are my conclusions, okay.
09:34:13 The security of the variance, it's just disrespectful
09:34:18 to both TPD, code enforcement and the Variance Review
09:34:22 Board.
09:34:24 These people are citizens and employees who are in the
09:34:29 neighborhoods, that continuously watch what's going

09:34:31 on, much more than so than City Council can be.
09:34:35 So I'm really, really upset that City Council turned
09:34:39 their back on the neighborhoods, and the fact that
09:34:42 some of these neighborhoods are so poor, they cannot
09:34:44 come down here and argue the point.
09:34:48 They cannot come down here and say, this is not right,
09:34:51 because they have to go to work.
09:34:54 Thank God I'm unemployed.
09:34:56 [ Laughter ]
09:34:56 I might be losing my house but I'm getting somewhere.
09:35:00 Okay, and this sentence what really got me.
09:35:03 $33 for six pages of TPD reports, okay?
09:35:08 $10.50 for 79 pages from code enforcement.
09:35:12 And what gives TPD the right to charge more for public
09:35:16 information than any other department?
09:35:20 Thank you.
09:35:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like to ask for the
09:35:27 administration to give a report back to City Council
09:35:30 in 30 days on why we have different charges for copies
09:35:33 from different departments.
09:35:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
09:35:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You know, I always say that I'm not

09:35:41 the most polished politician, because I call it and
09:35:44 see it like it is.
09:35:45 But I'm getting to the point now where I get these
09:35:47 reports and I understand what they are saying.
09:35:50 I'm going to defend the council members here on their
09:35:52 vote and the way they vote and how they feel when they
09:35:54 vote.
09:35:55 They were elected by the public, whether I agree with
09:36:00 my or anyone else here, but have you ever been, Mr.
09:36:02 Johnson, cited yourself on a case by code enforcement?
09:36:07 >>> Oh, yes, sir, several times.
09:36:08 >> That's what I want to ask.
09:36:11 Thank you very much.
09:36:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion on the floor.
09:36:15 All in favor say Aye.
09:36:16 Opposes?
09:36:17 Okay.
09:36:19 Next speaker.
09:36:23 >>> I would like to comment on agenda item number 11.
09:36:26 I'm Winston with personnel consultants.
09:36:30 We are your current contractor for operational
09:36:34 staffing services, Tampa Convention Center.

09:36:41 I just want to comment on several things.
09:36:44 Number one, in these difficult economic times -- and
09:36:50 we propose to increase services at the convention
09:36:54 center but at no increase in cost.
09:36:57 The current proposal in front of you will cost
09:37:01 $262,000 a year more.
09:37:04 Our service, when I met with the people, the services,
09:37:11 giving good services and we got a good report of good
09:37:14 services.
09:37:14 And one of our people, this month, at a convention,
09:37:20 someone lost a wallet with $455 and some travelers
09:37:24 checks.
09:37:24 And the individual turned it in to security, and has
09:37:28 been recommended to be employee of the quarter.
09:37:32 I think that's the fifth or sixth this year.
09:37:35 So I just wanted to say that in light of the economic
09:37:38 times -- and I understand we are in an official
09:37:42 recession now -- that if the city -- we have been your
09:37:47 contractor for eight of the last ten years.
09:37:50 So if the city chose to not implement a more expensive
09:37:55 contract this time, we would be willing to extend our
09:37:57 current contract until better economic times.

09:38:03 And if the city does accept this proposal, I hope that
09:38:09 the services promised are delivered, because in our
09:38:13 personal experience, the same vendor, we were
09:38:17 servicing another convention center.
09:38:25 They proposed the same thing, increase in services.
09:38:29 We were replaced, and in pretty short order they
09:38:32 called us back and said, could you continue the
09:38:34 service again?
09:38:35 Because the services promised were not delivered.
09:38:39 So again I just want to again, I want the Tampa
09:38:48 convention center, wish them the best, and again we
09:38:50 appreciate serving you in the past, and we hope to
09:38:52 serve you in the future.
09:38:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
09:39:03 >>MOSES KNOTT, JR.: I reside at 2902 East Ellicott
09:39:07 street three nights a week.
09:39:08 And then I just thank God for his grace and his mercy.
09:39:14 You know, the preacher said the prayer this morning
09:39:18 said people are in a hurry to get what they want done,
09:39:21 do what they want to do, everybody ripping and
09:39:24 running.
09:39:24 But me, ever since I put God first in my life things

09:39:30 been happening for me good.
09:39:32 But I want to speak on the article 99 this morning,
09:39:35 and code enforcement thing.
09:39:41 Now, I speak on the big picture.
09:39:43 Every time I come, I talk all over the world, but it
09:39:48 this 99 about this police harassment thing, now you
09:39:54 all know I come to this podium three or four times,
09:39:59 the mayor and you all signed a law, if a black man get
09:40:03 caught with an open container he's going to jail and
09:40:06 charge him $120.
09:40:10 And you all passed a law about trespassing so besides
09:40:14 the people you black people in jail already you all
09:40:18 got plans to put all black people in jail.
09:40:20 I went to courtroom 20.
09:40:21 I finally found out what room it was.
09:40:24 This judge said, if you have open containers, he said
09:40:30 all the people, all of the peoples for trespassing,
09:40:33 stand up.
09:40:34 About eight black people stood up.
09:40:36 And the judge said, it's a shame that a man goes steal
09:40:43 a car and get away it with, and they talk about how
09:40:47 they are breaking in and stealing, and they get away

09:40:49 with it.
09:40:50 But get caught drinking with an open container, you
09:40:54 all passed a law, saying you be seen from the road
09:41:00 drink ago beer, you are going to jail.
09:41:02 I was sitting right here when you passed all them
09:41:04 laws.
09:41:05 And I sat there but when you put a law in the black
09:41:09 part, and Mr. Charlie Miranda, that's my man there, he
09:41:14 talks about it all the time.
09:41:16 All in West Tampa, I told you about it.
09:41:21 Go to Ybor City, white people drink all on Bayshore,
09:41:25 anywhere they want to drink, in the dog park walking
09:41:28 their dogs drinking beer.
09:41:29 They don't go to jail.
09:41:31 But this judge -- you all passed that law.
09:41:35 Okay.
09:41:36 Back to this code enforcement thing here.
09:41:40 Do away with the barbed wire.
09:41:42 I have put up barbed wire, steel bars.
09:41:45 Now what they do in my part of town?
09:41:47 They back a car up and put chains and pull it down.
09:41:51 And the police do nothing.

09:41:55 I been robbed so many times don't hurt no more.
09:41:58 You go to the police department, I called so many
09:42:02 times.
09:42:04 I'm the judge, I'm the police, I'm the protector.
09:42:07 I'm everything.
09:42:08 When they go to my house and get a bucket of ten
09:42:13 bills.
09:42:16 One crack head told me who it was.
09:42:20 And then I call the -- six years, another name.
09:42:27 Chained him up and him over.
09:42:31 You all come out there, that's what's happening.
09:42:35 Police never come to me.
09:42:38 They go to the pawn shops.
09:42:40 And take it over there and sell it.
09:42:43 Thank you.
09:42:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Knott.
09:42:46 Next speaker.
09:42:48 >>> 1516 west -- street.
09:42:55 I'm here on behalf --
09:43:04 I call Tampa Police Department for help.
09:43:13 Help I thought I was going to get.
09:43:17 Harassment is all I received.

09:43:26 Me and my family if we are going to be here and that's
09:43:29 where we are going to be.
09:43:34 I can't even fight for my house because he'll be
09:43:42 arrested because he's a drug dealer but I can't pay my
09:43:46 light bill.
09:43:47 I had to go to a court four different times, and
09:43:53 officer dusty Rhodes, gave him another chance for the
09:44:03 subpoena, they come again.
09:44:06 But the same happened.
09:44:09 I also gave a note for him not to charge my children
09:44:17 for trespassing at my residence.
09:44:19 He don't do what the judge say.
09:44:21 He locked him up again.
09:44:23 As of now, we are waiting on a hearing, October 22nd,
09:44:26 which subpoena again to come because he's not
09:44:32 understanding what's happening.
09:44:33 My family has been broken.
09:44:41 Went to this meeting.
09:44:42 We came to an agreement that as long as you are
09:44:46 working, going to school, participating, doing
09:44:48 something, don't worry.
09:44:54 That hasn't happened.

09:44:55 He gets arrested again for sitting on his friend's
09:44:59 porch.
09:44:59 They are everything a barbecue get together and they
09:45:02 are caught, officer calls him by name, says, I haven't
09:45:09 got kicked out of the project, turns around, arrest
09:45:12 him with another trespassing, and an open container,
09:45:16 send him back to court, and it's a repeated thing,
09:45:19 repeated thing, repeated thing.
09:45:21 I can't even walk out my house without him saying, oh,
09:45:26 ain't you get kicked out yet?
09:45:28 Oh, it's coming.
09:45:29 He personally called Bill Jackson.
09:45:31 I was told to volunteer to do whatever I had to do to
09:45:36 show that I was trying to be a productive citizen, I
09:45:43 have volunteers from the elementary because I been
09:45:46 doing everything I had to do, but the harassment got
09:45:53 to stop.
09:45:54 Internal affairs, they laugh in my face.
09:45:58 I swore to tell the truth.
09:46:02 I don't know what else to do.
09:46:04 I don't know where else to go.
09:46:06 I'm getting to the point where I'm fed up and I'm

09:46:09 tired.
09:46:12 To help me, help myself.
09:46:14 But I'm in prison.
09:46:22 I'm asking for help.
09:46:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:46:31 Next speaker.
09:46:33 >>> My name is Calvin Iver, 4929-84th street.
09:46:41 And the Tampa housing, and I work with the kids and
09:46:57 all that, and this note, I'm not trespassing, I can
09:47:02 come there and all that, but a sheet of paper, tell me
09:47:09 judge can't throw the trespass out.
09:47:12 And I have got to call them, you all meet me, because
09:47:22 if I go over there, I'm going to jail.
09:47:26 This cookout, saw me coming.
09:47:31 I said you go to jail again, hit me with open
09:47:40 container, told me if he ever see me over there I'm
09:47:42 going to jail.
09:47:43 So I don't even go there no more.
09:47:45 I call them, let them come see me.
09:47:47 And I wish you all would do something about this.
09:47:53 I don't think I need to be going through my life like
09:47:55 this just to see my kids.

09:47:59 And I don't do nothing.
09:48:01 I work at the schoolhouse.
09:48:02 So I can't be a drug dealer because they aren't going
09:48:08 to let you work at school if you are a drug addict.
09:48:13 I wish you would all do something about this.
09:48:23 See if they can stay off of me and my family for no
09:48:26 reason.
09:48:27 And that's it.
09:48:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Iver, are you the gentleman in the
09:48:32 report?
09:48:33 >>> Yes.
09:48:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And Mrs. Reeves is the lady that came
09:48:37 before you, right?
09:48:38 >> Yes.
09:48:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:48:42 >>> Connie Burton, Tampa, Florida.
09:48:47 I want to say first of all, I really appreciate in
09:48:52 that invocation, and I would hope that in 2008 there
09:48:56 is some real significant meaning, poverty, racism, it
09:49:05 has not gone anywhere, because both problems can be
09:49:10 solved by man but he would can't solve those problems
09:49:12 because we have this underclass people that are at the

09:49:17 bottom.
09:49:18 And if you are at the bottom, then you are supposed to
09:49:21 be able to eat, and now I was invited to come to Mrs.
09:49:32 Reece house in the incident of the arrest over at
09:49:34 North Boulevard.
09:49:35 We went to internal affairs.
09:49:37 The reason I went to internal affairs is the officer
09:49:42 that accompanied dusty Rhodes, and you can't give the
09:49:45 name and you can't give the badge number, but -- I
09:49:48 mean you can't get the name but I did get the badge
09:49:52 number officer 220 and he informed me that I was
09:49:54 trespassing on the property and when he inquired why,
09:50:00 he said, because he said.
09:50:02 And I said, let me go speak to Mr. Jerome Ryan,
09:50:06 because I don't have any pending cases, but I have an
09:50:12 outstanding warrant.
09:50:13 Why?
09:50:14 It's why because trespass can be given to individuals.
09:50:16 They are not documented.
09:50:17 They are not given like a citation.
09:50:19 You cannot even dispute them.
09:50:23 So we got young people around here getting written

09:50:28 notice from the housing authority saying, no, you are
09:50:31 not trespass, but when the officer see them, and the
09:50:34 officer said, yes, I gave you a verbal warning, you
09:50:37 are going to jail.
09:50:38 So I am coming to understand just why in Hillsborough
09:50:40 County you are sending more people to prison than any
09:50:44 other county in Florida.
09:50:47 And when you look at the prison population, it's black
09:50:53 and brown.
09:50:54 And I'm here to tell you that the people should never
09:50:56 be underestimated.
09:50:58 The reason I went to City Council is to say I am not
09:51:00 going to be in fear of my life.
09:51:02 And I hope nobody underestimates me.
09:51:05 So thank you very much.
09:51:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:51:09 >>> Good morning, chairman and board members.
09:51:17 My name is Charles Smalling, Tampa, Florida.
09:51:22 I'm a cab driver in the City of Tampa.
09:51:24 Taxi drivers have asked me to talk to the city about
09:51:27 the neighborhood electric vehicles in the City of
09:51:31 Tampa, that are working in Tampa.

09:51:36 Public transportation commission has no control over
09:51:39 these.
09:51:40 They do not charge fees for their services, and many
09:51:43 of these companies claim they make their money off
09:51:46 advertising tips and consequently not under any
09:51:49 regulations or accountability.
09:51:51 How would anyone know if they don't charge?
09:51:53 According to Florida laws, about neighborhood
09:51:58 vehicles --
09:51:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Iver, I would like to talk to you,
09:52:06 please.
09:52:06 Thank you.
09:52:07 >>> Florida law electric vehicles they are not
09:52:10 supposed to travel on any major roads in the State of
09:52:12 Florida.
09:52:13 Highway 92, Kennedy Boulevard, 60, or any street in
09:52:16 the metropolitan area deemed unsafe.
09:52:19 State law says an MEV is not allowed to travel on any
09:52:24 road with a posted speed over 35 miles per hour but
09:52:27 they do.
09:52:28 Tampa is a -- allows them to continue to violate
09:52:33 Florida law, and the city would be liable in the event

09:52:35 of a horrific related accident.
09:52:37 A heavy vehicle hitting an MEV at any speed could kill
09:52:41 every rider.
09:52:42 The city must not ignore the continued danger of an
09:52:46 MEV where large amounts of alcohol are consumed.
09:52:51 Tampa should not allow an unsafe operation that
09:52:54 endangers life and limb.
09:52:56 The law allows state Tampa, Florida.
09:53:02 It is just a matter of time, for a terrible accident
09:53:06 to occur.
09:53:07 Thank you for allowing me to speak on this urgent
09:53:10 matter for the taxi drivers.
09:53:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, before he leaves,
09:53:16 since I am the representative on the public
09:53:19 transportation commission, Mr. Smelling, I read your
09:53:22 letter and I hear your concerns.
09:53:26 But way didn't see in your letter is what is it you
09:53:28 are suggesting that this City Council do, very
09:53:32 quickly?
09:53:33 >>> All right, very quickly.
09:53:40 Florida law, and it's on the Internet.
09:53:42 Nobody has responsibility to these except the city.

09:53:44 They are not regulated by anybody.
09:53:46 I'm asking you to look at this, and see if they are
09:53:50 safe in the city.
09:53:51 If they are not, work on it, because they are
09:53:55 detrimental to people's health and also hurts the
09:53:59 taxicab industry tremendously.
09:54:01 Thank you very much.
09:54:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Madam Chair, I would make a motion,
09:54:12 because I have been hearing this over at PCC as well.
09:54:16 I would like TPD and the city attorney's office to
09:54:21 just look at this issue from a safety perspective.
09:54:25 I don't think we are going to get into the competitive
09:54:27 aspect of taxis versus free MEV rides or whatever but
09:54:33 I think from a safety perspective you bring up some
09:54:35 good points so I would like to make a motion that TPD
09:54:37 and the city attorney's office look at these, he calls
09:54:41 them MEVs.
09:54:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:54:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And just get back with us, say, a
09:54:47 month from now, to address safety and legal issues
09:54:53 with their use in the city.
09:54:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Would you like that as a written

09:54:58 report?
09:55:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Written report is fine.
09:55:01 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
09:55:05 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
09:55:06 Opposed, Nay.
09:55:08 Go ahead, sir.
09:55:08 >>> George Howell, 100 North Tampa Street.
09:55:12 >> A hard act to follow, George.
09:55:16 >>> Something very positive for you.
09:55:18 I'm here in my capacity as chairman of Tampa Bay
09:55:22 history this morning.
09:55:23 Joining me is C.J. Roberts, president and CEO, 225
09:55:27 South Franklin street.
09:55:29 We are about to deliver on a promise we made to the
09:55:33 community about 20 years ago to build one of the
09:55:36 finest regional history museums in the country.
09:55:40 We are going to fulfill that probably in mid January
09:55:42 when we open our doors to our new 60,000 square foot
09:55:45 facility.
09:55:47 We think we have covered all our bases, all of our
09:55:50 contingencies, but we have a concern as to our street
09:55:52 address, which currently is on St. Pete Times Forum

09:55:57 drive.
09:56:00 This is a plat from 1905 showing the name of our
09:56:08 street for over 150 years, and we are seeking a return
09:56:10 of that name to its historic original name from
09:56:15 St. Pete Times Forum drive.
09:56:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Since you are a history center, and
09:56:24 since that is the historical name of the street, that
09:56:26 makes a lot of sense.
09:56:27 I would like to make a motion to direct the
09:56:29 administration to change the name of the street back
09:56:32 to waters street.
09:56:34 And congratulations.
09:56:35 We are very excited as we have seen the center rise,
09:56:38 and it's going to be such a gift to our community.
09:56:40 >>> Thank you.
09:56:42 And I would also like to show you what it looked like
09:56:44 as of yesterday.
09:56:46 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
09:56:48 (Motion carried)
09:56:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To do it as expeditiously as
09:57:01 possible.
09:57:01 >>> Also for council's information, we have talked to

09:57:04 the St. Pete Times, and they are fine with it.
09:57:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you wish that put on the overhead
09:57:13 for the public or not?
09:57:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, please.
09:57:15 Share it with all of our viewers.
09:57:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Congratulations.
09:57:39 We appreciate all your hard work.
09:57:42 >>> My name is Rich Weaver and I live at 1050
09:57:47 Reflections Lake Loop.
09:57:48 I'm just here this morning to speak in favor of items
09:57:52 25 and 26 on your agenda.
09:57:56 It's my understanding through purchasing that there
09:57:59 might be some question about the supply agreement as
09:58:04 it pertains to this.
09:58:05 I don't see that on the agenda, but he would were
09:58:10 advised by purchasing that there should be some
09:58:11 questions about the supply agreement that's currently
09:58:14 in place with the city for some products to be used
09:58:17 with the CMOB building as well as some other projects
09:58:20 within the City of Tampa, and just want to let you
09:58:22 know that I am here in the audience and available to
09:58:24 answer questions, if you have questions about that

09:58:26 supply agreement.
09:58:28 Thank you.
09:58:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:58:30 Would anyone else like to speak?
09:58:34 Is there anyone in the public that would like to
09:58:36 request a reconsideration on legislative matters?
09:58:39 Okay, we now go to item number 1.
09:58:44 Ordinance for first reading.
09:58:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Before you do, going back to the
09:58:49 Tampa housing authority issue, I know some of you have
09:58:53 been on council longer than I have, and I appreciate
09:58:57 the historical knowledge on this issue.
09:59:00 But what I'm not familiar with is I'm not familiar
09:59:04 with what the city policy is, the written policy, and
09:59:09 if we have a special ordinance related to trespass on
09:59:12 THA properties.
09:59:14 I don't want to get into it today or anything.
09:59:16 But I would like a request a written report from the
09:59:20 city attorney's office that would summarize any
09:59:23 ordinance, any relevant ordinance or policy that we
09:59:26 have as related to trespassing on Tampa housing
09:59:30 authority property.

09:59:32 I know these issues pop up every couple of years, and
09:59:35 I'm just here for what our policy is and how it's
09:59:40 enforced.
09:59:41 So I would like a written report from the city
09:59:44 attorney's office.
09:59:46 Is two weeks reasonable, Marty, on that?
09:59:49 >> What would it take to put that report together?
09:59:54 >> Two weeks?
09:59:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It would be three weeks.
09:59:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Because November 6th is your next
10:00:02 regular meeting.
10:00:03 >> Okay, three weeks.
10:00:04 >>CHAIRMAN: all in favor?
10:00:08 >>THE CLERK: Who was the second on that?
10:00:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Saul-Sena.
10:00:11 Mr. Miranda, would you read number 1, please.
10:00:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance presented for
10:00:16 first reading, an ordinance designating a portion of
10:00:19 Tampa as a clean zone in order to regulate activities
10:00:23 from January 21, 2009 through February 2, 2009 in
10:00:27 preparation for hosting the 2009 national football
10:00:31 league Super Bowl designating geographic boundaries,

10:00:34 dates and times for the clean zone regulating and
10:00:37 prohibiting temporary outdoor activities, tents,
10:00:40 signage and commercial promotional activities in the
10:00:43 right-of-way, providing for inspections and permits,
10:00:45 providing for penalties, regulating alcoholic
10:00:47 beverages, providing for definitions, providing for
10:00:50 severability, repealing conflict, providing an
10:00:52 effective date.
10:00:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:00:56 (Motion carried)
10:00:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
10:01:00 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott being absent at
10:01:03 vote, Mulhern being absent, second reading of the
10:01:06 ordinance will be held November 6th at 9:30 a.m.
10:01:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Number 2 is one of those correction
10:01:18 ordinances, an ordinance amending ordinance number
10:01:22 2008-150 passed and ordained by the City Council of
10:01:27 City of Tampa on September 4, 2008 which approved a
10:01:29 wet zoning 4(COP-R) for 4010 and 4100 Boy Scout
10:01:34 Boulevard by substituting a complete exhibit A for the
10:01:36 incomplete exhibit A that was supplied in error,
10:01:39 providing for severability, providing an effective

10:01:40 date.
10:01:41 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott being absent at
10:01:43 vote and Mulhern being absent.
10:01:46 Second reading of the ordinance will be held November
10:01:48 6th at 9:30 a.m.
10:01:50 >>GWEN MILLER: We now go to committee reports.
10:01:53 Mr. Miranda, public safety, please.
10:01:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You I move items 3.
10:02:07 >> Second.
10:02:07 (Motion carried)
10:02:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Parks and recreation, Linda Saul-Sena.
10:02:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move resolutions 4
10:02:14 through 6, holding 7, and 8 through 10, and holding 11
10:02:21 and 12.
10:02:23 Actually we are not holding 11.
10:02:25 Are we holding 11?
10:02:26 >>GWEN MILLER: No.
10:02:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay, then 10 through 12.
10:02:32 (Motion carried)
10:02:35 >>CHAIRMAN: Public works, Mr. Charlie Miranda.
10:02:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move 13, 14 and 15, hold 16 and 17
10:02:42 to 21 -- excuse me, through 20 with 21 being removed.

10:02:48 And items 22.
10:02:52 >>CHAIRMAN: Second?
10:02:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll second.
10:02:55 I had a question for Mr. Miranda.
10:02:57 As related to 21, I know we pulled it for this week.
10:03:03 I had a recollection that that company that's on item
10:03:06 21 was the one we had a lawsuit with.
10:03:10 Do you have any recollection of that?
10:03:14 >> I don't know.
10:03:14 You will have to ask the legal department on that.
10:03:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll talk to Brad between now and
10:03:19 the next time it comes back.
10:03:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Saul-Sena.
10:03:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:03:26 I know on system 17 I'm fine agreeing to it.
10:03:29 But this is the gentleman who got through our energy
10:03:39 needs, and does council ever see a breakout of how
10:03:42 much we spend on external legal fees in the course of
10:03:45 the year?
10:03:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sounds like a separate motion but a
10:03:50 good one.
10:03:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's just something that's of

10:03:52 interest to me.
10:03:54 I assume it's in the legal budget of the line item.
10:03:59 But I don't remember seeing any -- occasionally we see
10:04:03 agreements that are really dollar figures attached,
10:04:06 which I don't even know that I need to get that as a
10:04:12 written report.
10:04:13 But I'm just curious, because I feel like it's
10:04:17 appropriate to spend money on expertise that we don't
10:04:19 have, and helps us be more effective.
10:04:23 And I think that he would can't possibly have the
10:04:25 expertise in all the various areas that council and
10:04:29 the city put into it. it's probable much more cost
10:04:33 effective to hire out council.
10:04:35 I'm just thinking out loud.
10:04:36 I don't know what our expenses would be at the end of
10:04:39 the year.
10:04:41 >> It's my understanding some of these pop up in other
10:04:43 people's budgets.
10:04:44 I think this gentleman, Mr. ZAMBO's fees, are paid out
10:04:49 of solid waste budget because he specifically only
10:04:52 helps the solid waste department with the waste
10:04:54 management facility.

10:04:55 So if you just looked at the legal department's budget
10:04:57 you wouldn't see it.
10:04:58 That's my understanding.
10:04:59 I think Mr. Smith and I had some of these
10:05:01 conversations previously.
10:05:05 But if you want it, I would support it.
10:05:08 But let's carry this motion first.
10:05:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Public works.
10:05:12 All in favor?
10:05:14 (Motion carried)
10:05:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Finance Committee?
10:05:16 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to move item 23 to
10:05:21 29.
10:05:26 >>> Substitute 27.
10:05:28 >> Second.
10:05:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor say Aye.
10:05:33 (Motion carried)
10:05:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I know we are putting white roofs
10:05:37 on our building and we. Done any groan roofs and I
10:05:40 hope as we move forward in the future and hear back
10:05:44 from Thom Snelling about how the city is going to
10:05:46 become more sustainable that we do see things in the

10:05:51 future.
10:05:52 >>> Next week I am going to tell you how sustainable I
10:05:55 have been on myself and my home and my rental
10:05:58 properties.
10:05:58 What I do to my house I am doing to the rental
10:06:00 properties, all of them.
10:06:01 If I put insulation in my house, the rental properties
10:06:05 the same thing F.I put windows in my house the rental
10:06:08 properties get the same thing.
10:06:09 Everything I do to my house I do to the rental
10:06:11 properties.
10:06:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Building and zoning.
10:06:14 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, are we going to do
10:06:16 the ones to be adopted offer the CRA session?
10:06:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Those will be after.
10:06:25 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I move items 30 to 55.
10:06:34 >>GWEN MILLER: No, can't move those.
10:06:35 You have to stop at 36.
10:06:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 30 through 36 is what you want to
10:06:43 move.
10:06:44 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Items 30 to 36.
10:06:46 >> Second.

10:06:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:06:50 (Motion carried)
10:06:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Now move 47.
10:06:58 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Move 47 through 55.
10:07:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second?
10:07:06 Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:07:08 (Motion carried)
10:07:10 Transportation, councilman Dingfelder.
10:07:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move items 56 through 71.
10:07:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:07:33 (Motion carried)
10:07:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Items being set for public hearing.
10:07:36 >>GWEN MILLER: I'd like to set items 72 with all the
10:07:41 changes that we had this morning through 85 of the.
10:07:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Charlie
10:07:56 Miranda.
10:07:57 (Motion carried)
10:07:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: On item 56, which was an agreement
10:08:05 between the City of Tampa and the state Department of
10:08:08 Transportation for Kennedy Boulevard, I just want to
10:08:11 make myself -- fellow council members aware that what
10:08:24 we ended up with is mediocre, that the State of

10:08:27 Florida graciously said, okay.
10:08:29 The State of Florida is not letting people put in
10:08:31 trees, not letting them put in pedestrian light, and
10:08:34 last weekend at a Florida trust for historic
10:08:36 preservation meeting, I was in Ft. Lauderdale.
10:08:43 A1A and Wasola had trees, planters, a host of things,
10:08:49 these are state highways, and somehow their district,
10:08:52 district one, allows this.
10:08:53 Our district, district seven, hasn't gotten the memo,
10:08:57 that to be a competitive city you have to be
10:08:59 beautiful.
10:08:59 And I hope that we will continue to press our district
10:09:03 to get with the program and allow these amenities,
10:09:06 which will make our streets beautiful and make people
10:09:08 want to invest in them.
10:09:10 At this point we are not asking the Department of
10:09:12 Transportation to pick up the tab for it.
10:09:15 We are just asking them for permission to allow the
10:09:18 pedestrian lighting and the landscaping, and I'm
10:09:20 hoping that we'll be successful in convincing them
10:09:23 that we should be as lovely a city as our neighbors to
10:09:29 the south.

10:09:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Why don't we do a letter to that
10:09:32 effect on this council?
10:09:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excellent suggestion, Mr.
10:09:37 Dingfelder.
10:09:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It seems like a no brainer and then
10:09:40 we can pick it up in MPO also.
10:09:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move that we write a letter under
10:09:47 the chairman's signature pointing out that we would
10:09:52 like to improve the quality of the state road, and
10:09:57 specifically Kennedy Boulevard.
10:09:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:10:00 (Motion carried)
10:10:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, a clarification for the
10:10:06 clerk, and if we can just be clear.
10:10:08 With regard to items 16 and 17, I believe Mr.
10:10:10 Dingfelder had asked both be pulled but I wanted to
10:10:13 make sure.
10:10:14 Okay, number 17 was passed.
10:10:16 And number 16 is pulled.
10:10:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It was number 7 and 16 be pulled.
10:10:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So the clarification for the staff
10:10:24 who are watching, number 17 has been passed.

10:10:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
10:10:27 Thank you.
10:10:28 Number 16 and number 17 -- 6 and 17 are two that he
10:10:32 pulled.
10:10:33 Items for second reading.
10:10:36 Councilman Miranda, 86.
10:10:42 Public hearing.
10:10:42 Motion to open.
10:10:43 >> So moved to open the public hearing.
10:10:45 >> Second.
10:10:46 (Motion carried)
10:10:46 >> Anyone wishing to address council on 86?
10:10:59 >> Move to close.
10:11:00 (Motion carried)
10:11:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: move a substituted ordinance for
10:11:03 second reading, an ordinance of the city of Tampa,
10:11:05 Florida making comprehensive revisions to City of
10:11:07 Tampa code of ordinances chapter 17.5 planning and
10:11:11 land development, amending section 17.5-75
10:11:14 administration, notice, public hearing, decision,
10:11:17 repealing all ordinances or part of ordinances in
10:11:19 conflict therewith providing for severability,

10:11:22 providing an effective date.
10:11:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:11:31 Record your vote.
10:11:43 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.
10:11:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 87.
10:11:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Chairman, move to open items 87 to
10:11:53 93.
10:11:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:11:57 (Motion carried)
10:11:58 >>> Good morning.
10:12:00 LaChone Dock, Land Development Coordination.
10:12:02 Items 87, 88 and 89 all require certified site plans
10:12:07 by the zoning administrator.
10:12:08 These plans everybody certified and provided to the
10:12:10 clerk.
10:12:12 I have copies of these plans if you have any
10:12:15 questions.
10:12:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If you are going to be addressing
10:12:16 council today, will you please stand and be sworn?
10:12:19 If you are going to speak to council on any items,
10:12:21 please stand and be sworn.
10:12:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 87 through 93, Mr. Chairman?

10:12:26 >> Yes.
10:12:26 (Oath administered by Clerk).
10:12:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe there have been items to be
10:12:37 received and filed that have been filed for public
10:12:39 inspection at City Council's office.
10:12:40 I would like those to be entered into the record
10:12:42 before the votes on second reading by motion, please.
10:12:44 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
10:12:47 >> Second.
10:12:47 (Motion carried)
10:12:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A reminder to the audience.
10:12:50 Please, there is a sign-up sheet outside, if you are
10:12:52 going to testify please be sure you signed it and
10:12:55 reaffirm you have been sworn.
10:12:57 Thank you.
10:12:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 87.
10:12:59 Anyone wishing to address council on 87?
10:13:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
10:13:03 >> Second.
10:13:06 >>> 87.
10:13:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Are you against this item?
10:13:14 >>> I'm Pastor Jeffrey Singletary, 2923 North Kansas

10:13:14 Street. I'm here for the second reading of that, and
10:13:19 don't have anything particular to add to it other than
10:13:23 just to put forth kind of a schematic the overall
10:13:29 master plan.
10:13:33 This is the site we are talking about.
10:13:38 108 East Floribraska. If you have any questions.
10:13:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, pastor.
10:13:46 Motion to close?
10:13:47 (Motion carried)
10:13:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move the following ordinance on
10:14:00 second reading, an ordinance approving a special use
10:14:04 permit S-2 approving off-street commercial parking in
10:14:07 an RS-50 residential single-family zoning district in
10:14:10 the general vicinity of 108 east Floribraska Avenue in
10:14:14 the city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly
10:14:15 described in section 1 hereof approving waivers as set
10:14:17 forth herein providing an effective date.
10:14:19 >> Second.
10:14:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote, please.
10:14:25 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.
10:14:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 88.
10:14:31 Anyone wishing to address council on item 88?

10:14:33 Anyone wishing to address council on item 88?
10:14:37 >> Move to close.
10:14:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:14:41 (Motion carried)
10:14:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 88.
10:14:45 Councilwoman Miller.
10:14:46 >>GWEN MILLER: I move to adopt the following ordinance
10:14:48 upon second reading, an ordinance approving a special
10:14:50 use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, large
10:14:54 venue and making lawful the sale of beverages
10:14:56 regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine and
10:14:59 liquor, 4(COP-X), for consumption on premises only at
10:15:03 or from that certain lot, plot or tract of land
10:15:06 located at 4139 east Busch Boulevard, Tampa, Florida,
10:15:09 as more particularly described in section 2 hereof,
10:15:12 approving waivers as set forth herein, waiving certain
10:15:16 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
10:15:19 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
10:15:21 conflict, providing an effective date.
10:15:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:15:27 Record your vote.
10:15:37 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.

10:15:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Number 89.
10:15:42 Anyone wishing to address council may come forward.
10:15:44 Anyone wishing to address council on 89.
10:15:46 >> Move to close.
10:15:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Second.
10:15:49 (Motion carried)
10:15:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move the following
10:15:53 ordinance for second reading and adoption, an
10:15:55 ordinance approving a special use permit S-2 approving
10:15:58 a place of religious assembly in an RS-50 residential
10:16:01 single-family and CN commercial neighborhood zoning
10:16:04 district in the general vicinity of 3008, 3010, and
10:16:09 3102 east Lake Avenue and 3703, 3707, and 3717 north
10:16:16 30th street in the city of Tampa, Florida, and as
10:16:18 more particularly described in section 1 hereof,
10:16:21 approving waivers as set forth herein, providing an
10:16:23 effective date.
10:16:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:16:29 Record your vote.
10:16:36 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.
10:16:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 90.
10:16:41 Anyone wishing to address council on item 90.

10:16:45 Anyone wishing to address council?
10:16:47 Item 90.
10:16:48 >> Move to close.
10:16:49 >> Second.
10:16:49 (Motion carried)
10:16:51 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance being presented for
10:16:58 second reading, an ordinance approving special use S-1
10:17:02 on appeal from a decision of the zoning administrator
10:17:05 approving an annual vendor in a CG commercial general
10:17:09 zoning district in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
10:17:11 particularly described in section 1 hereof approving
10:17:14 waivers as set forth herein providing an effective
10:17:15 date.
10:17:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:17:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
10:17:38 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.
10:17:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 91.
10:17:43 Anyone wishing to address council may come forward.
10:17:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
10:17:48 >> Second.
10:17:48 (Motion carried)
10:17:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 91.

10:17:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance for second
10:17:55 reading, an ordinance making lawful the sale of
10:17:57 beverages containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight
10:18:00 and not more than 14% by weight and wines regardless
10:18:04 of alcoholic content beer and wine 2(APS) in sealed
10:18:06 containers for consumption off premises only at or
10:18:10 from that certain lot, plot or tract of land located
10:18:12 at 4215 north 15th street, Tampa, Florida more
10:18:16 particularly described in section 2 hereof waiving
10:18:18 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
10:18:20 findings imposing certain conditions, providing for
10:18:23 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
10:18:25 effective date.
10:18:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second with a question.
10:18:29 Ms. Saul-Sena, I just wanted to point out you voted no
10:18:32 on that before.
10:18:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:18:39 Thinking ahead.
10:18:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This is the one we imposed with the
10:18:43 owner's permission, hours of operation.
10:18:45 >> And close to Howard.
10:18:48 That was my concern.

10:18:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me hear from Rebecca just to
10:18:53 confirm that's in the ordinance.
10:18:54 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes, we did have that ordinance
10:18:59 updated.
10:19:01 >> Second.
10:19:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
10:19:04 Record your vote.
10:19:13 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena voting no
10:19:15 and Mulhern being absent.
10:19:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 92.
10:19:19 Anyone wishing to address council on item 92.
10:19:30 >> You want ton speak to 92?
10:19:32 Come on up if you want to speak.
10:19:38 >> Janell Hanson, I live in the Channel District.
10:19:52 And what I'm here to highlight is we are just looking,
10:19:57 because we weren't notified as a neighborhood, as to
10:20:00 the detail of this.
10:20:01 And what has been passed around is similar to what you
10:20:06 see on the DRC.
10:20:07 It is a good neighbor intent that we know having
10:20:11 worked with the zoning, worked with different
10:20:13 departments.

10:20:13 What we would like to see from this happening, the
10:20:15 first thing it does show is that we were not notified
10:20:18 by this formally.
10:20:21 But the hitch, we don't want to do anything that
10:20:24 would -- stall anything that would benefit the
10:20:27 community.
10:20:27 But in the future what we are looking for is
10:20:29 neighborhood contribution, an respect.
10:20:33 As far as contribution there were three items we are
10:20:34 looking for.
10:20:35 And just so that I can notate, V 06-56 wet zoning, we
10:20:41 as a community sat on their DRC, so the people who
10:20:44 filled out the paperwork as far as variance, and they
10:20:51 have seen this process before.
10:20:53 We are looking for a good neighbor intent.
10:20:55 Here's an example.
10:21:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Are you talking about 92?
10:21:04 For or against the alcohol zoning?
10:21:06 >>> We want to ensure that what is being proposed is
10:21:09 the intent, because wet zonings that have been
10:21:13 approved that are unclear, the towers are having
10:21:16 challenges with their wet zoning.

10:21:18 Supporting staff who have been trying to make clear,
10:21:20 need to go on-site plans very clearly.
10:21:23 So things can be enforced.
10:21:25 So we are asking for a good neighbor intent
10:21:28 documentation on the site plan.
10:21:30 And as you can see in the memo.
10:21:32 Because we did not hear as a neighborhood, like we
10:21:35 were supposed to, due to a glitch in the system.
10:21:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I ask the legal
10:21:42 department to correct me but when we pass zonings, I
10:21:45 don't know of any that come with specificity what it's
10:21:48 going to be, a bar here, a restaurant here.
10:21:50 That doesn't happen that way.
10:21:52 In some areas it doesn't happen that way.
10:21:54 And I would like the legal department or somebody to
10:21:56 say how this is happening.
10:21:58 I'm getting some information here that might be 100%
10:22:03 correct.
10:22:04 I don't know if it is or not.
10:22:05 And I want clarity on that issue, because this is
10:22:10 supposed to be alcohol zoning, if I remember, and it's
10:22:14 also got a package store or something.

10:22:16 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:22:18 I'm not sure what it is you have before you but just
10:22:20 to be clear, this is a WZ case.
10:22:22 This is a wet zoning case under the old chapter 3.
10:22:25 There is no site plan for this.
10:22:26 Not a special use case.
10:22:27 So it doesn't follow the current code standard.
10:22:30 There is simply a survey and legal description of the
10:22:32 property.
10:22:32 And any conditions have to be agreed to by the
10:22:35 petitioner, and that is contained in the ordinance
10:22:37 itself.
10:22:38 This is the hotel wet zoning, for the floors, not
10:22:42 including the parking garage.
10:22:44 Throws a package store on the bottom.
10:22:49 >>> Which is why we are just asking for clarity on the
10:22:52 good neighbor intent in accordance with the code.
10:22:54 Just for clarity as far as noting things on the site
10:22:57 plan, right now it's the towers.
10:23:00 Alcohol can only be sold on commercial square footage.
10:23:03 That is what the old code goes by.
10:23:05 What's designated as commercial.

10:23:07 And there's been issues as to what floor it moves to
10:23:09 because this development is not existing, has not yet
10:23:12 been built.
10:23:13 I also passed out what is a developer's agreement.
10:23:16 And on the highlighted page it shows where the
10:23:18 developer has worked with the entire community, the
10:23:20 Channel District previously existed.
10:23:22 And it shows this.
10:23:24 But three things we are log for is for the developer
10:23:26 to actively be involved in the neighborhood watch,
10:23:28 because alcohol will impact the small parks and areas
10:23:33 in our neighborhood.
10:23:34 But also like them to be associated with the
10:23:36 neighborhood associations so they know what's going on
10:23:38 in the neighborhood as well as to contribute to the
10:23:40 neighborhood.
10:23:40 And it clearly shows where the neighborhood works with
10:23:44 the city parks and recreation, as well as work with
10:23:46 zoning two years ago, and that we are still very much
10:23:49 moving forward in accordance with the code, and the
10:23:52 code for the Channel District similar to the arts
10:23:54 fund, to have that specific location for a park

10:23:59 recreation fund which we are trying to obtain for our
10:24:02 neighborhood.
10:24:02 And the petitioner is aware of this because of their
10:24:04 own zoning, they did say that their land was for sale
10:24:08 and it was very nice for phase one, where you can see
10:24:11 on his agreement, the was the developer even to let
10:24:18 that happen.
10:24:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
10:24:24 Thank you.
10:24:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is a question for legal.
10:24:30 Are we able to direct as part of a wet zoning that the
10:24:35 petitioner be cooperative with the neighborhood in the
10:24:40 way Ms. Hanson just suggested?
10:24:43 >>> No, Councilwoman, as you recall with the zoning
10:24:47 you are more limited with the conditions you can
10:24:48 impose than you can with a special use.
10:24:51 It has to be directly related to the sale of alcoholic
10:24:53 beverages as it relates to the hours of operation, the
10:24:56 sanitary regulations and the location of the property.
10:24:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, the specific thing that she
10:25:00 said that was interesting to me is neighborhood watch,
10:25:03 you know, deals with crime, like -- whatever the

10:25:08 climate is, and sometimes throws a relationship
10:25:11 between alcohol sales, particularly package alcohol
10:25:14 sales, and crime, which is one of the reasons why
10:25:17 council regulates this, because we are supposed to be
10:25:20 protecting the community.
10:25:21 So in that, is there any kind of ability of council as
10:25:28 part of this approval where the property owner who is
10:25:36 being given this privilege to sell alcohol through the
10:25:39 package store has to make some sort of commitment to
10:25:42 the neighborhood to be engaged with them on an ongoing
10:25:45 basis as part of the crime watch program to make -- so
10:25:50 that they are hearing directly from the neighbors
10:25:53 about issues that might be related to their privilege
10:25:55 of having this package store?
10:25:57 >>> It wouldn't be appropriate to apply that as a
10:26:00 condition in the ordinance so it would be enforceable
10:26:02 by the city.
10:26:03 Certainly if you want to speak to the applicant's
10:26:05 representative directly on that issue.
10:26:07 >> Would you mind coming up and saying whether your
10:26:09 client would -- our attorney said you couldn't put it
10:26:17 in the ordinance but I'm assuming they are going to

10:26:21 make this big investment and they are going to care
10:26:23 about the health and cleanliness of the Channel
10:26:26 District.
10:26:27 Do you feel like you can commit on their behalf that
10:26:30 they will be engaged in the neighborhood crime watch?
10:26:32 >>> Grace Yang, 201 North Franklin Street, Tampa.
10:26:36 I am here representing the petitioner.
10:26:39 Hotel Indy go wants to be welcomed in the community,
10:26:43 wants to be a good business in the Channel District.
10:26:47 We are very excited about having this project come to
10:26:50 the Channel District next fall.
10:26:53 So they will have security, as any large hotel of this
10:26:58 scale is going to have.
10:26:59 They will have security.
10:27:01 It's my understanding that as this development and
10:27:03 this project was being proposed that there were
10:27:06 discussions and dialogue from Jean defreeze, from
10:27:11 Kathleen heft who was on another project with some of
10:27:15 the local channel neighbors and leaders in the
10:27:17 district.
10:27:18 I apologize if there has been some lack of
10:27:21 communication.

10:27:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, excuse me.
10:27:24 >> They will be engaged.
10:27:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I was hoping you answer yes or no
10:27:28 because we have a time constraint day, a busy agenda.
10:27:31 I guess the question is, are they willing to
10:27:33 participate in the crime watch program?
10:27:35 Yes or no?
10:27:36 >>> I think they will be, although if I could have --
10:27:42 yes, I do think that they will be engaged in the crime
10:27:45 watch.
10:27:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:27:47 Thank you.
10:27:47 Okay.
10:27:48 All right.
10:27:48 Motion to close.
10:27:49 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
10:27:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman.
10:27:52 Just in case you wish to have the petitioner have any
10:27:56 last word before you close the hearing or rebuttal or
10:27:59 anything else you wish to add.
10:28:00 >>> I didn't have anything else to add except if there
10:28:04 is some question about the notice issue.

10:28:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, ma'am, we don't want to hear about
10:28:09 that.
10:28:10 Thank you very kindly.
10:28:11 All right.
10:28:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:28:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
10:28:16 Second to close?
10:28:18 >> Second.
10:28:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:28:21 Opposed?
10:28:21 All right.
10:28:22 Councilwoman Miller.
10:28:26 >>GWEN MILLER: I move an ordinance adopted for second
10:28:28 reading, an ordinance making lawful conditional sale
10:28:33 of beverages 4(COP) for consumption on the premises
10:28:37 and in sealed containers for consumption off the
10:28:39 premises in connection with a business establishment
10:28:41 on that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at
10:28:45 125 south 11th street, Tampa, Florida, as more
10:28:49 particularly described in section 2 hereof, waiving
10:28:51 certain restrictions as to the distance based upon
10:28:53 certain findings, imposing certain conditions,

10:28:56 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
10:28:58 providing an effective date.
10:29:00 >> Second.
10:29:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
10:29:05 Record your vote.
10:29:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think the question of notice is a
10:29:08 very important -- is a very important question, and we
10:29:12 as council are committed to working with our
10:29:16 neighborhood liaison, and with the zoning department,
10:29:19 and figuring out an efficient way to give you timely
10:29:22 notice of all proposed rezonings and special uses,
10:29:26 because we value neighborhood improvement.
10:29:28 It very important.
10:29:29 So we will work out something better than we have now.
10:29:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:29:33 Council, it's 10:30.
10:29:34 I would like to finish the next three items so we can
10:29:36 take up staff reports.
10:29:38 We can do that in about five minutes.
10:29:41 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda voting no and
10:29:45 Mulhern being absent.
10:29:48 And Caetano being absent at vote.

10:29:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 93.
10:29:52 Anyone wishing to address council?
10:29:53 Item 93.
10:29:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:29:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:29:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move the following ordinance for
10:30:00 second reading, an ordinance rezoning property in the
10:30:03 general vicinity of 2024 east 62nd street in the city
10:30:07 of Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in
10:30:09 section 1 from zoning district classification RS-50
10:30:12 residential single-family to C 1 commercial intensive,
10:30:16 providing an effective date.
10:30:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion and second of the record your
10:30:20 vote.
10:30:43 >>CHAIRMAN: Need to vote again?
10:30:44 >> I only have four votes showing up.
10:30:48 Motion carried with Mulhern being absent and Caetano
10:30:56 being absent at vote.
10:30:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Open items 94, 95 and 96.
10:31:04 >> So moved.
10:31:05 >> Second.
10:31:05 (Motion carried)

10:31:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 94.
10:31:10 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:31:12 Just to remind you item 94 was a privately initiated
10:31:15 amendment to add the accessory dwelling units within
10:31:18 that localized area in the Lowry Park area.
10:31:24 The petitioner is here.
10:31:25 If you have any questions.
10:31:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:31:30 Anyone who wanted to address council on this item?
10:31:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:31:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second with a question.
10:31:41 Staff?
10:31:43 I'm sorry.
10:31:43 These were citizen initiated ordinances?
10:31:47 >>> This is a privately initiated amendment.
10:31:52 A very specific area.
10:31:54 She provided a three-ring binder to each council
10:31:57 person, a lot of history and a lot of research that
10:32:00 she had done, in this particular area has a high
10:32:02 concentration of these accessory dwelling units.
10:32:04 >> And was there any objection from the community?
10:32:07 >>> No.

10:32:08 >> Neighborhood association?
10:32:09 >>> No.
10:32:10 >> Staff?
10:32:10 >>> No.
10:32:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close?
10:32:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
10:32:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
10:32:19 Councilwoman Saul-Sena, item 94.
10:32:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move the following ordinance upon
10:32:26 second reading, an ordinance of the city of Tampa,
10:32:28 Florida making comprehensive revisions to City of
10:32:30 Tampa code of ordinances chapter 27, zoning, amending
10:32:33 section 27-77, official schedule of district
10:32:36 regulations, amending section 27-272, regulations
10:32:41 governing individual special uses, repealing all
10:32:44 ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict
10:32:47 therewith, providing for severability, providing an
10:32:49 effective date.
10:32:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:32:52 Record your vote.
10:33:02 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.
10:33:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 95.

10:33:10 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:33:11 This is the amendment for the parking issue, Ybor City
10:33:17 parking, removal of the interim parking lot,
10:33:20 regulation, and then setting certain standards for how
10:33:23 those lots will be developed.
10:33:25 If you recall at the hearing, there was one ordinance
10:33:27 on file for surface requirements.
10:33:31 The internal drive aisles were to be paved, the
10:33:34 parking spaces could be turf or hard rock.
10:33:37 There was a vote by the YCDC that they wanted the
10:33:41 drive aisles to be unpaved, the lots that were smaller
10:33:45 than 7500 square feet could remain turf or hard rock
10:33:49 for the entire lot.
10:33:50 Also that the signage could be six square feet, and
10:33:55 that is the property owner -- the company owner,
10:34:00 rather, that is on the sign to be noticed.
10:34:03 I have noted on the record that I have no issues with
10:34:04 that, at that time there were no residents here from
10:34:08 the neighborhood that spoke in opposition.
10:34:10 Since that hearing, we received several e-mails and
10:34:13 phone calls from the neighborhood association that
10:34:18 were not in favor of removing that pavement

10:34:21 requirement.
10:34:21 I believe some of them are here to speak as well.
10:34:24 To give you a little bit of background, there was a
10:34:26 parking committee that was formed through the YCDC
10:34:31 along with the neighborhood association
10:34:33 representative.
10:34:33 And the language that was before you originally with
10:34:35 the drive aisles being paved was seen as the
10:34:38 compromise language.
10:34:40 And at the time of the hearing, I said that we had no
10:34:42 objections because there were no representatives here
10:34:45 saying, from the neighborhood saying we were against
10:34:51 it.
10:34:52 We were in favor of the compromise language paving
10:34:54 those drive aisles.
10:34:55 I know Vince Pardo was here from the YCDC that can
10:34:59 speak to the history of how that committee was formed
10:35:00 and its operation.
10:35:01 I just want it had to be clear. This is directly from
10:35:05 Gloria Moreda.
10:35:06 She is the one that attended those meetings and
10:35:08 actually drafted the language that we as staff

10:35:10 actually prefer the compromise language because it was
10:35:13 comprehensive and heard from all sides.
10:35:15 So adding the drive aisles back is actually what staff
10:35:18 prefers.
10:35:20 Which was the compromise language.
10:35:21 That would require it to go back to first reading, if
10:35:24 council chose to go back to the original ordinance.
10:35:26 If council hears all the testimony today and decides
10:35:29 that the ordinance that's on file allowing the 7500
10:35:32 square foot lots and smaller to be turf or hard rock
10:35:37 then you can go ahead with second reading.
10:35:39 You have a couple of options today depending on what
10:35:42 you hear from the testimony but there are members from
10:35:44 the public to speak.
10:35:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you have a copy of what it is
10:35:48 that we are talking about, the different options?
10:35:52 >>CATHERINE COYLE: It was on the agenda.
10:35:54 I can give you my copy.
10:35:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We can get a copy made.
10:35:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to put on the record.
10:36:03 Are you aware how long this has been going on with
10:36:05 these lots?

10:36:06 I remember this back in the 90s.
10:36:09 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes, those parking lot standards,
10:36:12 the interim parking lot standards, there is a gate for
10:36:14 the enforcement of the lighting and the security, that
10:36:17 was established March 1st, 1998, and then in '99
10:36:21 and 2000 the regulations were changed for the interim
10:36:24 lots as well.
10:36:25 This is anywhere from eight to ten years these things
10:36:29 should have brought up to some standard.
10:36:31 >> wasn't therein after a certain time you had two or
10:36:33 three years to comply with something like that back in
10:36:35 the 90s?
10:36:36 >>> When the standard was put into place for the
10:36:38 interim lots, in order to be an interim lot, you
10:36:40 actually had to apply for a permit to actually
10:36:43 establish yourself as an interim lot with certain
10:36:46 standards.
10:36:47 That did not occur.
10:36:48 The lots remain basically as is.
10:36:50 And the interim lots had a five-year window, could you
10:36:53 get a six-year extension, but that six years is long
10:36:57 gone at this point.

10:36:58 So council made the motion that interim lots needed to
10:37:01 be stricken completely and we needed to deal with how
10:37:04 these lots needed to be addressed.
10:37:06 And that's what the parking committee went out and
10:37:08 did, they tried to formulate some kind of compromise
10:37:11 and what standards should be established, keeping in
10:37:14 mind our eye towards green development, and
10:37:17 sustainability, so we didn't have just all asphalt
10:37:21 lot, so we dealt with permeability, it didn't have to
10:37:23 deal with stormwater issues and other things, but also
10:37:29 that these lots hopefully will be developed with
10:37:31 structures, and uses that will actually encourage the
10:37:36 life of Ybor City.
10:37:41 He's actually making copies.
10:37:43 >>GWEN MILLER: It appears it is going to be a lengthy
10:37:45 discussion, and we need to go a.
10:37:48 Take up staff reports.
10:37:48 I wasn't aware that we were going to be into a lengthy
10:37:52 discussion.
10:37:52 It's 20 minutes till eleven.
10:37:54 Then we have CRA at 11:00.
10:37:55 I'm kind of concerned about where this is going right

10:37:58 now.
10:38:02 I was trying to finish all of these public hearings,
10:38:05 then move to staff reports, then only have to deal
10:38:07 with the CRA.
10:38:11 >>> I am not aware of any issues with number 96.
10:38:14 And certainly it's always council's discretion to hold
10:38:18 if we have an arch session as well, it's up to you.
10:38:20 >> I feel like these are citizens who waited for this
10:38:25 public hearing opportunity, and I would like to take
10:38:31 the three and probably deal with them in ten minutes.
10:38:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, if we do ten minutes, that puts
10:38:37 you at almost 8 minutes till eleven.
10:38:39 You have CRA at eleven.
10:38:40 That doesn't give time for staff reports, which is
10:38:43 also important.
10:38:44 I understand that.
10:38:52 This pushes everything back.
10:38:56 That's just my opinion.
10:38:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I agree with Mrs. Saul-Sena, why
10:39:02 don't we shorten up everybody to two minutes.
10:39:04 >> At least deal with this and give everybody two
10:39:07 minutes.

10:39:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We can do that without a motion.
10:39:09 I don't have a problem with that.
10:39:11 Okay, if you all want to come.
10:39:20 I apologize.
10:39:24 We have a tough agenda.
10:39:26 It's real tight.
10:39:28 >>> Good morning.
10:39:29 Tony LaColla, president of Ybor historic association,
10:39:34 the history has been explained to you, what this
10:39:36 process was.
10:39:37 What I am passing out is a map of parking lots, just a
10:39:40 few examples in Ybor City.
10:39:42 When you made the exception to the rule for paving the
10:39:46 drive aisles under 7500 square feet you created a
10:39:49 major loop hole.
10:39:51 Most of the lots in Ybor City, the contiguous parking
10:39:54 lots are very large.
10:39:55 You are talking 10, 12, 13,000 square feet.
10:39:58 But the individual parcels themselves are 1200, 2500,
10:40:03 3500 square feet.
10:40:04 They are all under 7500 square feet.
10:40:06 So when the parking lot owners were to come to bring

10:40:10 their parking lots up to standards, they were going to
10:40:12 be exempt from this 7500 square feet.
10:40:14 They weren't going to have to pave anything.
10:40:16 Because they are going to come to you and say, listen,
10:40:18 I have got a parking lot here but it's five different
10:40:20 parcels and all of my parcels are 2500 square feet.
10:40:25 They are creating -- they are circumnavigating the
10:40:29 rules and regulations.
10:40:30 Just look at your map and see what I am talking about.
10:40:33 The neighborhood association residents have been
10:40:35 completely against these parking lots for years and
10:40:37 years and years.
10:40:38 And from the beginning we established that we don't
10:40:40 want these parking lots in our neighborhood.
10:40:42 But we decided, listen, they are going to have a
10:40:45 process to bring these parking lots up to standards,
10:40:47 he would don't want to be out of the process, we are
10:40:49 going to work with the YCDC, however we still maintain
10:40:53 standing that he would don't want parking lots in our
10:40:55 neighborhood.
10:40:55 Some pictures here, I want to show you, these are the
10:40:58 types of parking lots, this isn't a very good picture

10:41:01 but here you have an alleyway being blocked by
10:41:04 parking. This is a safety concern.
10:41:06 Another one, another alleyway being lost by parking
10:41:12 lot.
10:41:13 There's no rules, no regulations on these parking lots
10:41:15 and they have to be brought up to standards.
10:41:17 Design standards in Ybor City that we came up with are
10:41:19 actually less than what we are going to have for the
10:41:21 City of Tampa.
10:41:22 Section 27 for all nine residential uses have the
10:41:24 required number of off-street parking, shall be
10:41:27 surface with asphalt or cement.
10:41:30 In Ybor City we are not going to have any spaces
10:41:32 paved.
10:41:32 It's only going to be the drive aisles.
10:41:34 So in actuality, these standards for Ybor City are
10:41:37 less Wan we are going to require for the rest of the
10:41:38 City of Tampa.
10:41:39 And in our historic district, should we have higher
10:41:42 standards.
10:41:45 Another point I would like to make is when it comes to
10:41:47 the-taxes, we have parking lots paying 900 a year in

10:41:56 taxes but these are businesses, bringing 80, $90,000
10:42:00 every evening, parking cars on these surfaces.
10:42:02 We need to look at how these businesses are being
10:42:06 taxed and how the property is being evaluated by the
10:42:08 property appraiser.
10:42:10 These are businesses, these are not vacant lots.
10:42:12 Thank you.
10:42:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
10:42:15 Next speaker.
10:42:19 >>> Good morning.
10:42:20 Sandra L. Jackson, 11607 East 6th Avenue, Tampa,
10:42:24 Florida 33605.
10:42:26 I have lived in the same residence for over 55 years.
10:42:29 I'm against having the parking lots within our
10:42:32 neighborhood.
10:42:32 They create an unsafe environment for residents.
10:42:35 There's no monitoring of these lot.
10:42:37 Most of the people that park there are young adults
10:42:39 who have no respect for other people's property.
10:42:43 They use our yards as bathrooms and lead to trash.
10:42:47 Would you want this in your neighborhood?
10:42:49 When they are exiting these lots they cut through our

10:42:53 yards and other vacant lots.
10:42:54 To get to 7th Avenue.
10:42:56 They are very loud at 3:00 in the morning.
10:43:00 The lot attendants do not tell them -- they just park
10:43:03 the cars and take their money.
10:43:05 How is the neighborhood benefiting from these lots?
10:43:08 We the residents do not feel safe I have had to call
10:43:14 TPD for fights as people cut through the lots next to
10:43:16 my house, as they are going to their vehicles.
10:43:20 For example, the guy that was shot and killed by TPD a
10:43:22 few weeks ago was in a lot behind my home.
10:43:29 This is the lot.
10:43:33 If there had been a shootout between TPD and the guy
10:43:36 that was shot, he also had a gun, bullets could have
10:43:40 entered our residents and we could have been injured
10:43:42 or killed.
10:43:42 So why should we be subjected to this?
10:43:45 My feeling is you do not live, work or visit a
10:43:50 resident there's no need for you to northbound our
10:43:52 neighborhood.
10:43:54 It's a big problem.
10:43:55 I am a in favor of improvements, but I would like for

10:43:58 the lots to be gone.
10:44:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Ms. Jackson.
10:44:06 Next speaker.
10:44:08 >>> My name is Joe Howden, 1709 East 5th Avenue.
10:44:16 I'm feeling a little pushed.
10:44:18 I think this deserves a little more attention than two
10:44:21 minutes for each person.
10:44:22 But I want to let you know, I will sort of edit my
10:44:27 comments.
10:44:27 I believe these lots are a it would be for us for two
10:44:30 reasons.
10:44:30 One is from the viewpoint of historic preservation
10:44:32 there is no pattern of lots, independent lots, free
10:44:36 standing lots in Ybor City.
10:44:37 Now, someone will come to you and say, we have always
10:44:40 parked cars in Ybor City.
10:44:41 My grandmother had a house in mulberry, Florida, and
10:44:45 we used to gob there for family reunions and we parked
10:44:48 in the lot next door but that doesn't make it a
10:44:51 parking lot.
10:44:51 Our patterns had to do with height and minimum
10:44:54 distances and bricks, and metal roofs, and this is a

10:44:58 pattern that doesn't exist in Ybor City.
10:45:00 The only parking that has existed is automobiles
10:45:03 developed along with Ybor City and most of Ybor City
10:45:05 historic development occurred before 1930 was
10:45:10 accessory lots that were affiliated or associated with
10:45:12 a business.
10:45:13 Even the large lot behind Agliano's market, that was a
10:45:20 business.
10:45:21 These lots are lots that should be reserved for
10:45:22 residential development.
10:45:24 I believe these lots are a violation of our landmark
10:45:27 status.
10:45:28 It believe that the Secretary of the Interior
10:45:30 department would take a dim view of us introducing a
10:45:33 pattern in Ybor City that simply doesn't exist.
10:45:37 So I would like to see this not happen, because of
10:45:40 historic preservation.
10:45:42 If you are someone who doesn't care much for historic
10:45:45 preservation, there's a few people like that
10:45:47 unfortunately in Ybor City, it's also let's look at
10:45:49 the economics of it.
10:45:50 It's a deterrent to residential development.

10:45:52 And we all know that residential development is now
10:45:54 one of the key factors in Ybor City.
10:45:56 When I was the president of the neighborhood
10:45:59 association, and Steiner came here to visit central
10:46:05 Ybor as a possibility we sat and talked and he said
10:46:07 when we get 2,000 people living in Ybor City, we will
10:46:09 have something that will support my project.
10:46:12 At that time we had 300 people living in Ybor City.
10:46:14 We now have nearly 2,000.
10:46:17 These parking lots have been cited by TPD as a source
10:46:20 of crime.
10:46:22 It doesn't matter if you pave them with gold.
10:46:24 It doesn't matter how you make them look.
10:46:27 They are going to be a problem with the neighborhood.
10:46:28 The individuals that own them, while they are having a
10:46:31 nuisance in my neighborhood, they are at home in bed,
10:46:34 asleep, in north Tampa or out at the beach or wherever
10:46:37 they live.
10:46:39 They harbor crime.
10:46:40 The attendants take cash.
10:46:42 (Bell sounds).
10:46:45 Thank you.

10:46:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
10:46:46 Next speaker.
10:46:48 >>> My name is Steve Artuga, chairman of the YCDC
10:46:57 parking committee, also an Ybor City resident, and a
10:46:59 business owner.
10:47:03 Our committee has been working on this issue since
10:47:05 last year.
10:47:06 We have been working closely with city staff as well
10:47:09 as parking lot operators and concerned residents.
10:47:14 On February 12, we had a meeting with city staff, and
10:47:20 under discussion of lot surfacing, Ms. Moreda
10:47:24 recommended that only paving drive aisles and
10:47:25 handicapped paces for lots over 7500 square feet,
10:47:30 rather than paving the entire lot.
10:47:36 Motion to accept, and seconded.
10:47:40 Mr. LaColla was present at that meeting.
10:47:43 On May 27th, the may 27th meeting we got a
10:47:47 preliminary draft of the new ordinance.
10:47:50 After much discussion, a motion was made by Joe
10:47:53 Capitano, Sr. and seconded by jack Evans to support
10:47:56 the ordinance with four changes and clarifications.
10:48:01 Enhanced lighting was one.

10:48:03 Number two, the intent was that lots under 7500 square
10:48:08 feet would not have to be paved, would not have to
10:48:13 have the center drive aisles paved.
10:48:15 Number three, change the size and contact name on the
10:48:18 sign.
10:48:19 And number four was clarification of page 31, section
10:48:23 27-18.
10:48:24 Mr. LaColla was not present at this meeting.
10:48:28 At the June workshop, I spoke to council and commented
10:48:32 that the parking committee was going to support the
10:48:35 ordinance with three exceptions now, not having a
10:48:40 center drive aisle for under 7500 square feet paved,
10:48:43 remove the owner's name from the sign leaving the
10:48:46 company name and number, increasing the size of the
10:48:48 sign from four feet to six square feet, and
10:48:51 Councilwoman Saul-Sena agreed with increasing the size
10:48:53 of the sign at that meeting.
10:48:56 At the July 23rd meeting, additional discussion on
10:48:59 the new ordinance and stormwater requirements were
10:49:04 discussed.
10:49:05 Mr. LaColla was not present at that meeting.
10:49:10 On the August 15th meeting we continued the

10:49:12 discussion on a new ordinance and a final motion was
10:49:14 made by Jack Evans, seconded by Joe Capitano, Sr.,
10:49:19 recommending to support the proposed parking ordinance
10:49:20 with two exceptions.
10:49:21 We are down to two now.
10:49:23 Not to pave the center drive aisles and not to put the
10:49:26 name on the sign.
10:49:27 Mr. LaColla was not present at that meeting again.
10:49:32 Motion was presented to the full board and the full
10:49:34 board moved to support the ordinances with those two
10:49:36 exceptions.
10:49:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
10:49:42 >>MOSES KNOTT, JR.: I reside at 2902 Ellicott street.
10:49:46 And I always speak on the big picture.
10:49:50 But let me tell you before you all jumped the gun with
10:49:53 this thing, now, you always do that.
10:49:56 Come to town you pass the law for the whole entire
10:49:59 town.
10:50:00 Let me tell you something.
10:50:02 It's critical in this town for parking.
10:50:04 I'm going to tell you all something.
10:50:06 If Tampa stadium out there right now people parking up

10:50:09 in people's yards, they come home.
10:50:11 In my neighborhood they got churches, you know, and
10:50:15 what I'm saying, a lot of this stuff, now, and I would
10:50:22 like somebody to come down and get a permit to park
10:50:24 some cars, you know, make them be responsible like you
10:50:27 do, be responsible, stand there and watch what goes on
10:50:31 in the parking lot or whatever.
10:50:32 But I tell you it's critical.
10:50:36 Tampa stadium got a problem, and they got the World
10:50:41 Series come over there.
10:50:43 And they got the biggest parking problem over there
10:50:45 you ever seen in your life.
10:50:47 Every week, the City Council has to pass a rule right
10:50:49 away where they can park, people coming from all over
10:50:52 the world to St. Petersburg, to the World Series.
10:50:54 But I want you all to think about this things, before
10:50:59 somebody spend a lot of money and pay a lot of
10:51:02 property tax just to do something to get an income.
10:51:05 But I would say the best thing to do if somebody gets
10:51:09 a permit and do like do you the barbecue people and
10:51:12 everything.
10:51:12 Thank you very much.

10:51:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Knott.
10:51:14 Next speaker.
10:51:18 >>> I'm Pam Vopper. I reside at 1607 North 19th
10:51:21 street in Ybor City.
10:51:24 I'm a block south of 7th Avenue.
10:51:30 We have interim parking lots all around my residence.
10:51:35 What I have observed from these parking lots, constant
10:51:39 code enforcement violations and regulations that were
10:51:41 set up.
10:51:43 There are supposed to be attendants on-site at sundown
10:51:47 or I know until the last car leaves.
10:51:51 That's not happened.
10:51:51 They fill the lot up.
10:51:52 They leave.
10:51:53 The lots have not been improved.
10:51:56 There was supposed to be landscaping.
10:51:57 That hasn't happened.
10:51:59 The parking lots are full of trash.
10:52:03 I see the YCDC yes team picking trash up in private
10:52:07 parking lots.
10:52:08 I'm not sure what that is.
10:52:09 I would certainly believe that's the private parking

10:52:11 lot owner's responsibility, not the City of Tampa or
10:52:14 YCDC money.
10:52:16 They could go to better uses than taking care of
10:52:19 private parking lots.
10:52:23 I have a concern with a lot of these interim lots.
10:52:27 First of all the regulations I think that are being
10:52:30 proposed are downgrading what the neighborhood
10:52:33 association wanted, and as Mr. Miranda said, for ten
10:52:36 years, this has been in limbo and nothing has
10:52:39 happened.
10:52:39 It's time for it to -- it private property.
10:52:47 Police will go through sometimes, if they get a lot of
10:52:49 complaints.
10:52:49 But it's up to these parking lot owners to maintain
10:52:52 the areas and make it safe.
10:52:54 It's not happening.
10:52:54 And they are dust bowls.
10:52:57 I want to point out a parking lot just popped up on a
10:53:00 property across the street from me at 5th Avenue
10:53:03 and 19th on the southeast corner.
10:53:05 There's a new club opened in Ybor, old wrangler, and
10:53:10 they valet park.

10:53:16 This is in your neighborhood, too, your district.
10:53:18 This is the back of the club.
10:53:21 The valet parking.
10:53:24 This is what it looked like Saturday night.
10:53:30 I let my boyfriend take pictures.
10:53:38 This is what it looked like this morning.
10:53:39 Okay?
10:53:41 The lot is full with 20 to 30 cars.
10:53:43 And this is three weeks old now.
10:53:45 It's on YC-6.
10:53:47 And it did have building permits for house that is
10:53:50 have now expired.
10:53:52 Now it's a parking lot.
10:53:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move to get this
10:54:01 thing off the dime do. We need to close in order to
10:54:03 discuss it?
10:54:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I believe the question is
10:54:07 what the ordinance before you says.
10:54:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, what I would like to do is
10:54:11 take the ordinance before us with the exception of
10:54:13 what was previously which is to remove the line about
10:54:16 individual parcels, used to make one contiguous

10:54:21 parking lot.
10:54:23 Are attempt from the things.
10:54:24 Therefore I think that any parcel should require a
10:54:27 paved drive aisle.
10:54:28 >>CATHERINE COYLE: If you could be clear, which
10:54:32 paragraph are you referencing?
10:54:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We received a handout --
10:54:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Currently parcels understood 7500
10:54:41 square feet don't have to have a drive aisle and I'm
10:54:44 saying scratch that line and adopt everything else.
10:54:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's not in there.
10:54:47 She's reading from the handout.
10:54:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But where is the --
10:54:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Hatdon.
10:55:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Excuse me, is it Joe?
10:55:07 It's Tony, I'm sorry.
10:55:08 She's reading from Tony's handout.
10:55:11 >> I don't think that language has been added to this
10:55:17 current draft copy.
10:55:18 >> And that's what she's speaking to.
10:55:20 She's saying add that.
10:55:21 That's your language.

10:55:22 She's reading directly from your language that you
10:55:23 have.
10:55:24 So she's saying add that language to the ordinance.
10:55:27 >> It's already in the ordinance.
10:55:29 In the original, first draft, it's already in the
10:55:31 ordinance, that any lot under 7500 square feet must
10:55:34 have a paved drive aisle.
10:55:37 However, at your first public hearing you made a
10:55:39 change that any lot under 7500 square foot would not
10:55:41 be required to pave the drive aisle.
10:55:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's what she's saying.
10:55:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My motion would be we go back to
10:55:50 the original.
10:55:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's what she's saying.
10:55:52 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I actually have a copy of that
10:55:54 original ordinance.
10:55:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have discussed it for years and
10:55:58 years and years.
10:56:00 So I move that we put it back on first reading.
10:56:03 >>> You can actually read it rye now.
10:56:05 Title is the same.
10:56:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Excuse me, I believe the original

10:56:08 ordinance needs to have the effective date changed.
10:56:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Once again, we wouldn't be here if
10:56:22 we didn't have any prosperity.
10:56:24 If it was back in the 70s, none of us would be here
10:56:27 because the tumble weed was the only thing that was
10:56:29 there.
10:56:30 And through the process, this is like something of a
10:56:36 quake building up.
10:56:41 You had artists come in.
10:56:43 They flourished.
10:56:44 Then someone found out, guess what, others could come
10:56:47 in and pay more rent.
10:56:48 So that evolution came about.
10:56:51 Then we started, the city started pushing development
10:56:55 of residential, apartments, the city went out to
10:56:59 various governmental agencies and got two nice
10:57:03 beautiful parking lots built, one on 15th and
10:57:06 6th and the other on palm and Nuccio Boulevard,
10:57:09 and all that came about so we enhanced the area and
10:57:14 brought in more people.
10:57:15 It was very difficult to get anyone.
10:57:23 So now we have a conflict between what's there now and

10:57:27 what's coming in tomorrow, more and more in
10:57:29 residential.
10:57:31 That's a primary for residential use.
10:57:34 What bothers me the most is that ten years ago we had
10:57:39 the same type of meeting.
10:57:42 And we gave extensions.
10:57:44 And then we gave a second extension, if I remember.
10:57:47 And today, we are back to the first square.
10:57:51 And I don't think that's right.
10:57:52 Somewhere along the line, someone has to draw the line
10:57:56 and say this is what it's going to be.
10:57:59 How we are going to take this effort and improve not
10:58:01 only what's there now, but the ability of what's
10:58:04 coming in tomorrow.
10:58:05 And it has to be done in a mannerism where everyone
10:58:11 has some responsibility for their own property, some
10:58:13 responsibility for the people that live next to it,
10:58:16 just today, I got an e-mail from an individual who
10:58:20 lives next to a lot, who went to meet someone, his car
10:58:24 was towed.
10:58:26 $175.
10:58:27 This has got to end.

10:58:29 This has got to end.
10:58:30 And then you have a number of these signs that anybody
10:58:34 answer the phone at that number?
10:58:36 I don't know.
10:58:39 I don't know.
10:58:42 I mean, I don't know what else to tell you,
10:58:45 Mr. Chairman.
10:58:45 I'm a little disappointed that it's taken ten years.
10:58:48 I really am.
10:58:50 And it should not have taken ten years.
10:58:52 We were more than lenient.
10:58:55 This government has been more than lenient in trying
10:58:58 to help all by making huge investments in Ybor City,
10:59:02 not only in parking lots, but in sewer and roadway and
10:59:08 alleyways and everything that we have done.
10:59:10 And I'm not going to let it go away.
10:59:13 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:59:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Cathy, I'm looking through what you
10:59:20 gave me a copy of.
10:59:21 Where would we be inserting what, according to Ms.
10:59:24 Saul-Sena's motion?
10:59:25 >> Actually that's what I was going to clarify in the

10:59:27 motion.
10:59:28 If you look at page 4, in paragraph 4, just to clarify
10:59:34 there, was no distinction in the original ordinance
10:59:36 that the 7500 square foot level.
10:59:38 If you look at paragraph 4 for surface lot, all
10:59:42 parking lots, if you have center drive aisles paved,
10:59:47 we didn't have a distinction of what size.
10:59:49 We just said you have to have the drive aisle paved.
10:59:52 If we could, because I also have to change the
10:59:55 effective date F.could you make a motion to change to
10:59:59 the 1:30 session but make it clear that is to keep the
11:00:02 original orphaned language, make the effective date
11:00:05 November 15th and I'll bring that back so everyone
11:00:08 understands.
11:00:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
11:00:12 Do we have agreement on that?
11:00:17 Tony?
11:00:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's what you wanted.
11:00:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right, so you are in agreement
11:00:21 whenever that.
11:00:21 And also YCDC.
11:00:23 Okay.

11:00:23 All right.
11:00:24 Is there a second?
11:00:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
11:00:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
11:00:32 Okay, then that comes back.
11:00:33 Let's hear from staff report because we are way past
11:00:37 due.
11:00:37 Take a few minutes to take Cindy Miller.
11:00:41 She has very important information.
11:00:43 Part of the standardization program first and then any
11:00:46 item you have on staff report, do that while you are
11:00:48 here and get you out of the way.
11:00:50 And then take up item 99.
11:00:54 Then we've to take a break.
11:00:55 >>CINDY MILLER: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of
11:00:59 City Council.
11:00:59 I asked for a few minutes on this agenda to talk about
11:01:03 the neighborhood stabilization program.
11:01:05 A couple of weeks ago, the federal government
11:01:07 announced that we here in Tampa would receive an
11:01:10 allocation of $13.6 million as part of one of the
11:01:16 foreclosure bills that they had addressed a few months

11:01:18 ago.
11:01:19 To give you an example, the county is receiving 1990
11:01:23 in allocation.
11:01:24 We will be back before you, and I would probably be
11:01:27 coming back to you with a request through doc agenda
11:01:31 of a hearing on November 20th for resolution.
11:01:35 To approve an amendment to our HUD plan.
11:01:42 Let me sort of give you an outline of what it entails.
11:01:46 Primary purpose of this legislation and this program
11:01:49 is to take abandoned foreclosed homes, and either
11:01:54 demolish them, put them into other appropriate use, or
11:01:58 to purchase them, fix them up, and put them back into
11:02:01 the housing market.
11:02:02 That can be either as rental or as for-purchase home.
11:02:07 What we need to do between now and November is staff,
11:02:14 at a HUD conference, to get the details very exact.
11:02:16 We need to look at census data.
11:02:19 We need to look at foreclosure data.
11:02:21 We need to look at what the available properties are.
11:02:23 But I can tell you from our preliminary review of our
11:02:26 statistical information on foreclosures, and what
11:02:30 would be bank foreclosures, homes have already gone

11:02:34 into the bank's ownerships and are no longer owned by
11:02:37 individuals.
11:02:37 We see what we would call scatter diagram.
11:02:41 Two areas where we sort of see -- it would be the
11:02:46 Sulphur Springs area, and the West Tampa area,
11:02:49 especially very close to the center of the historic
11:02:52 district.
11:02:52 So you have sort of a Howard-Armenia, just north of
11:02:56 the 275 area.
11:02:58 And of course Sulphur Springs would be from the river
11:03:01 north, then to Busch Boulevard.
11:03:04 However, we have a number of other adjoining and close
11:03:07 by by neighborhoods where we see different kinds of
11:03:10 information but those are the two that we see some
11:03:12 significant need within the neighborhoods.
11:03:15 Those two neighborhoods we would be emphasizing home
11:03:17 ownership.
11:03:19 We believe that that is going to be important for
11:03:21 first-time home ownership.
11:03:24 The program limits us, as all of our federal and state
11:03:27 programs do, but in this case it would be 120% of area
11:03:30 median income for home ownership.

11:03:32 What does that mean?
11:03:33 For a family of two that's 54,240.
11:03:37 Family of four, $67,800.
11:03:40 So we would be looking at first-time homeowners for
11:03:43 that purpose.
11:03:43 We also have a requirement to provide at least 25% of
11:03:48 our funding for folks that are at 50% of area median
11:03:53 income.
11:03:53 Using the same statistics family of two or family of
11:03:56 four, 26,600 to 28,250.
11:04:00 So we would be looking at rental programs.
11:04:03 We hope to also particularly be able to provide rental
11:04:07 for those folks who may have lost their homes recently
11:04:11 through foreclosure so we will be working with social
11:04:14 service entities, number of not for profits so we can
11:04:17 help identify the families.
11:04:19 We also had preliminary meetings with some of those
11:04:21 special service such as Metropolitan Ministries and
11:04:24 others so we can help identify the folks that really
11:04:31 have need.
11:04:32 So when we are working on this, we also intend to work
11:04:36 with the county.

11:04:37 One of the areas, we understand they are looking at,
11:04:40 is the USF area.
11:04:42 So we are focusing on Sulphur Springs.
11:04:45 They are focusing at the USF area.
11:04:47 We can really have some strategic neighborhood
11:04:49 revitalization stabilization.
11:04:51 The city is looking at a new community center in
11:04:54 Sulphur Springs, again focusing on those particular
11:04:57 neighborhoods, focusing on Sulphur Springs elementary,
11:05:00 and I think this is going to be a major, major
11:05:05 improvement to the neighborhood.
11:05:09 From West Tampa again we know there are some definite
11:05:12 needs for first-time home ownership there.
11:05:15 I was back before you in November.
11:05:16 But because of the situation I wanted you to be aware
11:05:22 that staff is working on it and we are working to have
11:05:25 a very effective program.
11:05:28 Unless there's other questions, I will move onto the
11:05:31 other items, Mr. Chair.
11:05:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Before you do that, any comments from
11:05:35 council?
11:05:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No, no, ma'am, I not on this

11:05:40 subject matter but she's here and Mr. John Berry is
11:05:42 here.
11:05:42 I would like to compliment Cindy Miller and John
11:05:47 Barrios for doing an outstanding job and getting a
11:05:49 letter of support from the Tampa Bay builders
11:05:51 association for the work that they have done, and turn
11:05:54 around time at the building operation that we have.
11:05:57 I'm so proud of the permitting, the turnaround time
11:06:01 has been reduced and the Tampa Bay building
11:06:02 association supports every effort that they have done,
11:06:06 and they have worked with them to implement different
11:06:10 suggestions and they have included the whole public in
11:06:12 the process and it's come out very, very nice.
11:06:14 I would like to compliment them.
11:06:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, councilman.
11:06:18 I do want to go back to the federal neighborhood
11:06:21 stabilization program, which I think is very
11:06:25 encouraging that the City of Tampa will receive 13.6
11:06:28 million, and the county actually get 19.1 million, and
11:06:34 I'm on the affordable housing task force.
11:06:37 That was highly discussed at our last meeting which
11:06:39 was I think last week.

11:06:41 But I want to compliment Ms. Miller because here again
11:06:44 you are identifying an area that's really in need.
11:06:47 At least a couple of them, West Tampa, and Sulphur
11:06:50 Springs.
11:06:53 And hopefully from this, this will really benefit
11:06:57 those neighborhoods.
11:06:58 And thank you for taking a look at that.
11:07:02 And it's so important for those who are listening to I
11:07:07 guess contact your office, or do they need to -- how
11:07:11 is that process?
11:07:13 >>CINDY MILLER: I believe the best thing southbound
11:07:14 when we come back to you in November I will have
11:07:16 information as to how to engage.
11:07:20 I believe this will be more in partnerships with other
11:07:22 entities.
11:07:22 So I think that might be a better approach.
11:07:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, very good.
11:07:26 >>CINDY MILLER: But I will have that information for
11:07:27 you.
11:07:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I know from the county standpoint that
11:07:29 they are going to be working with a lot of the CDCs
11:07:34 and 501 and that sort of thing as well.

11:07:38 Thank you very much.
11:07:38 I think you have a couple other items.
11:07:40 >>> Number 106, the AQ study, you already made a
11:07:45 motion for that to be in workshop October 23rd at
11:07:48 1:30 so therefore this particular item through a
11:07:50 written report, in effect that can be deferred because
11:07:54 we will be taking that up in a presentation on the
11:07:57 23rd.
11:07:58 For the workshop.
11:07:59 The other two items that are before you is items 108
11:08:02 and 109.
11:08:04 Council member Miranda had mentioned these are permit
11:08:09 fees, and enhancement fees that we have with the
11:08:12 construction permitting and our construction services
11:08:15 division.
11:08:16 And I have information I already shared with all of
11:08:21 you.
11:08:22 We would just ask your support from the standpoint of
11:08:24 those two resolutions.
11:08:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Caetano?
11:08:29 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Barrios, can I ask you some
11:08:31 questions about the building permits?

11:08:37 When you came into my office yesterday, I had gotten a
11:08:40 number of phone calls.
11:08:42 What other permits are out now?
11:08:46 How are they drafted in the last year?
11:08:48 >>> In the last year our workload includes permits,
11:08:51 plan reviews and inspections have dropped
11:08:53 approximately 18%.
11:08:55 As compared to a year prior of the
11:08:58 Our revenues are up.
11:09:00 Council agreed to a permit fee increase a couple years
11:09:03 ago.
11:09:04 And so we are stabilized, and holding our own,
11:09:09 everyone though the workload is slightly down as
11:09:11 compared to last year.
11:09:13 As compared to five years worth of work, we tend to
11:09:17 look at not just last year, but also the median of the
11:09:23 past five years, we are actually stable.
11:09:25 This is a very typical kind of year for us as compared
11:09:28 to the past five years.
11:09:29 >> Okay.
11:09:30 And looking at the ratings, where the City of Tampa
11:09:32 is, in fee comparisons, we are number 5 compared to

11:09:37 the city of Sarasota, Hillsborough County, Pinellas
11:09:40 and city of St. Petersburg.
11:09:42 How are they ranking in building permits, and what
11:09:45 type of permits are they putting out, do you know?
11:09:48 >>> The counties traditionally, since they are much
11:09:51 more heavily laden with residential-type projects,
11:09:54 residential permits, they are seeing much more
11:09:56 significant drop in their workload.
11:09:59 And as a result in their revenues as well.
11:10:03 So as we are today, basically in the middle of the
11:10:06 pack as compared to the community, we remain there
11:10:11 when we increase the fees as we are proposing today.
11:10:13 So we stay within the middle of the pack, so the
11:10:17 impact on our future revenues as well as our future
11:10:22 workload should not be dramatically impacted by the
11:10:25 increase.
11:10:25 >> At the present time, due to the economic conditions
11:10:29 that we are in, as we all know, our stock market went
11:10:32 down 900 points.
11:10:33 It came back the next day.
11:10:35 Now it's down another 700 points.
11:10:38 I really can't support this increase at the present

11:10:41 time.
11:10:42 If we could put it off till January sometime, to find
11:10:45 out where our economy is going, because we are going
11:10:49 down the hill.
11:10:51 There's not a lot of homes out there -- excuse me,
11:10:54 there are a lot of homes, but they are not selling.
11:10:56 A lot of people, we all know that there's
11:10:58 foreclosures, a lot of foreclosures.
11:11:00 A lot of small businesses hurting.
11:11:03 I'm a small businessman.
11:11:04 And my revenue has probably dropped 50%.
11:11:08 And I'm trying to make it but it's very hard.
11:11:12 And if we put another increase, I know the builders
11:11:15 association, because I asked you that yesterday, and
11:11:18 Mr. Miranda brought that up today, that they support
11:11:21 it.
11:11:21 And I just cannot support it.
11:11:24 If we can put it off till January to find out where we
11:11:27 are going, we hear all these promises from these guys
11:11:30 that are running for president, where we are going,
11:11:33 there's going to be change.
11:11:34 We don't know.

11:11:38 >>CINDY MILLER: If I may address some of the items.
11:11:41 First of all just from a standpoint of getting --
11:11:44 giving adequate notice to everyone, it would not be
11:11:47 effective until January.
11:11:49 We do have support of small builders, the trades, a
11:11:53 number of other organizations.
11:11:54 We have had seven stakeholders meetings where the
11:11:57 industry has seen us.
11:11:59 We have had absolutely no opposition from any of those
11:12:01 individuals.
11:12:01 Our concern is that this -- the reason why you are
11:12:05 seeing some increases is last year, we did have a 75%
11:12:09 increase in commercial rates, and a 10% increase in
11:12:12 residential.
11:12:13 We already acknowledged that we needed to make sure
11:12:15 that some of our smaller home builders and residential
11:12:18 contractors, we recognize that last year.
11:12:21 This basically provides more equilibrium from that
11:12:24 standpoint. This is also a totally new way of doing
11:12:27 our fee structure. This is to recover the cost, not
11:12:31 have the haphazard manner that we had over the years.
11:12:33 When it comes to the construction services division,

11:12:36 only 35% of the cost of permitting -- and that
11:12:40 includes the fire marshal's office as part of that and
11:12:43 other departments that interface with us that are
11:12:46 housed in construction services -- we only recover 35%
11:12:49 of our cost through fees.
11:12:52 The rest, the other 65%, is borne by the general fund.
11:12:56 We believe that this is important from the standpoint
11:12:59 of being able to provide the least to the general
11:13:04 fund, it will not be effective until January, we do
11:13:06 know that there is, you know, potential that we will
11:13:10 have fluctuations in how much activity we will have.
11:13:13 But then very frankly, we are talking basically about
11:13:16 a $5 million potential impact improvement in the
11:13:20 general fund for a full fiscal year.
11:13:24 So from that standpoint, I understand councilman
11:13:28 Caetano your concerns.
11:13:29 We share that concern.
11:13:31 And that's one reason why we had as many meetings as
11:13:33 we did starting last spring, really, with the
11:13:37 industry, and also a reason why we are not asking for
11:13:40 this as an immediate increase.
11:13:42 We are asking for it in January.

11:13:43 And so from that standpoint, I do believe we have
11:13:46 support.
11:13:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:13:51 You all have been very thorough in figuring out what
11:13:54 your true cost are, and I think what you are
11:13:56 presenting to us today is fair.
11:13:58 It's not fair for existing homeowners to be picking up
11:14:00 two-thirds of the cost of new construction permits,
11:14:04 because we're not benefiting from these new houses.
11:14:09 They are just causing more -- well, anyway, I think
11:14:12 it's fair for the people who want to build the new
11:14:14 houses to pick up the permit fee, and what's before
11:14:17 us, I think, is very balanced, well researched, and
11:14:20 frankly, I think it's taken longer than it should have
11:14:23 because you all felt compelled to talk to everybody
11:14:25 and their brother three times.
11:14:27 So I'm happy that it here.
11:14:28 And, Mr. Chairman, I would be happy to move number
11:14:30 109.
11:14:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm sorry, I stepped out for a
11:14:41 minute.
11:14:41 This first year, January 2009, was there a percentage?

11:14:47 >> 108, too.
11:14:48 I'm sorry.
11:14:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: A particular percentage you all are
11:14:52 shooting for or average?
11:14:56 >>CINDY MILLER: Perhaps what I can refer to, we do
11:14:58 have a PowerPoint but I don't really want them to
11:15:00 bring the entire PowerPoint up at this point, but I am
11:15:03 going to put a cost summary.
11:15:06 Let me say what is exclude in the 2009, what we
11:15:20 currently have in place was initiated around 1982.
11:15:28 All we have been doing over the last 25 years is
11:15:30 tweaking it.
11:15:31 Sometimes we would increase them.
11:15:33 Sometimes we would modify commercial.
11:15:34 Sometimes we would modify residential.
11:15:36 But it had no basis in reality as to how much it cost
11:15:39 for us to conduct our business.
11:15:42 What we have within the 2009 rate structure, it's
11:15:47 basically to capture the total personnel and operating
11:15:50 cost that you see here of 8,993,000.
11:15:55 So I could have the construction service employees
11:15:59 that are within my department, other departments that

11:16:01 are housed, at construction services, the construction
11:16:05 investigators that are paid for by TPD, we also have
11:16:09 the fire marshal inspectors that are housed at
11:16:12 construction services.
11:16:13 We collect in our last fiscal year just ended,
11:16:17 collected about $7 million in fees.
11:16:22 So when you look at this and almost 1.5 million, and
11:16:26 then our other technology and vehicles, you can see
11:16:29 the total is $12 million, of which we only collected
11:16:32 $7 million in fees.
11:16:34 So, therefore, what our 2009 consideration is, is to
11:16:39 bring that up to the $12 million level.
11:16:43 If we stay at the same level, it would be about a $5
11:16:46 million improvement for the general fund.
11:16:49 From the other standpoint as to -- this is based on
11:16:57 2008 budget.
11:16:57 It isn't even our 2009 fiscal budget.
11:17:00 We still have inflationary factors there. When we
11:17:02 talk about the cost of operation, one thing I do want
11:17:05 to point out is another statistic is that we had a
11:17:08 consultant come in and take a look at -- they have
11:17:11 already worked throughout Florida.

11:17:12 The average billable hours for construction services
11:17:15 for building apartment around the state is 80 to $100.
11:17:21 In the country it's 80 to 120.
11:17:24 We are at $76 an hour.
11:17:25 We are cost effective.
11:17:26 So we are also not asking the industry to pay us
11:17:30 because we have a lot of fat in the budget.
11:17:34 We are working on a very slim budget.
11:17:36 So that is what we are looking at for 2009 is a cost
11:17:39 recovery system that will have a positive impact on
11:17:41 the general fund.
11:17:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think that's helpful, but my
11:17:46 question goes back to Mr. Caetano's concerns.
11:17:49 And I guess the industry doesn't look like they are
11:17:52 necessarily here, which is interesting.
11:17:54 But I'm looking in one of your pages, one of your
11:18:00 horizontal pages, for a typical production
11:18:04 single-family dwelling, it says it's an ongoing,
11:18:08 $1500.
11:18:11 >>CINDY MILLER: And I put that item up.
11:18:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So this increase is about 400.
11:18:20 >>CINDY MILLER: I think when we came before you we

11:18:23 showed you we would break even under a three year time
11:18:26 period.
11:18:26 So last year this particular fee comparison had an
11:18:28 increase from 2007 to 2008 of only 10% compared to
11:18:32 commercial of 75%.
11:18:35 So, therefore, again, this is not looking at an
11:18:37 across-the-board percentage increase.
11:18:39 What our consultants did was take a look at every step
11:18:42 of the way of what it cost to issue a permit, how many
11:18:45 minutes on plan review, how many minutes it sits on,
11:18:49 say, site review, in some way, shape or form.
11:18:53 From that standpoint, that is what they measured.
11:18:55 They measured this is what it actually cost us in
11:18:59 order to issue a permit for this size of house.
11:19:02 The one reason you don't see industry here, I believe,
11:19:05 is because the builders association, particularly, had
11:19:07 already sent an e-mail to each of you fully supporting
11:19:11 these two resolutions, 10 and 109.
11:19:15 Beginning.
11:19:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am going to support the motion.
11:19:17 The only other information I would like to see at some
11:19:20 point down the road, when you talk about efficiency,

11:19:25 you say, our department is efficient, and that's all
11:19:28 fine and good.
11:19:29 Way would like to see is see how our $12 million of
11:19:34 staffing costs per year stacks up to these others.
11:19:41 I don't know if you base that per population or per
11:19:45 home, you know, or per permit or whatever.
11:19:49 >>> The best way to look at that is information we do
11:19:52 already have, and I don't want to necessarily look
11:19:54 like we are in competition with our friends in the
11:19:56 county.
11:19:56 But the rate I just mentioned, the billable hour where
11:20:02 the rest of Florida is 80 to 100 per hour, we are at
11:20:06 $76.
11:20:06 The county is at about $100 an hour.
11:20:09 They have the same kind of cost system that we do,
11:20:12 same kind of permitting structure that we are
11:20:14 proposing here.
11:20:15 So we are very efficient compared to our colleagues
11:20:17 around the state.
11:20:18 We are even below the average of 80 to 100.
11:20:21 So that is really how we are looking at efficiency, is
11:20:24 billable hours, and how much it would cost for

11:20:27 billable hour if we were in the county.
11:20:30 That is how we would recover our cost.
11:20:32 It's recovering cost but trying not to exceed that
11:20:36 costing mechanism.
11:20:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I agree with you sort of but I
11:20:40 don't necessarily agree per hour, because what if your
11:20:43 people didn't work as efficiently for that given hour?
11:20:50 So, you know, I don't know.
11:20:52 I don't want to get into it.
11:20:53 All I'm saying is, I think the more relevant thing
11:20:56 would be how does that $12 million stack up per person
11:21:01 or per permit or something like that?
11:21:04 >>> We'll be happy to see if there's a way we can have
11:21:06 something that's recognized by the industry and
11:21:08 provide a written report to council.
11:21:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
11:21:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion.
11:21:14 Councilman Saul-Sena, on item 108 and 109.
11:21:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To move those resolutions.
11:21:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:21:23 I'm sorry.
11:21:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Ms. Miller, impact fees are not

11:21:28 included in this, correct?
11:21:29 >>> This is not included.
11:21:30 >> That's on top of the construction, your charges.
11:21:33 >>> That would be correct.
11:21:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion.
11:21:38 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:21:40 Opposed?
11:21:41 >> Nay.
11:21:42 >> Clerk: Motion carried with Caetano voting no.
11:21:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And I was saying this is in line with
11:21:48 what the county did several years ago as well.
11:21:50 I just wanted council to understand that.
11:21:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: While Mrs. Miller is there she said
11:21:56 if anybody has a question about anything that she's
11:21:58 written a report on.
11:21:59 Number 103, illegal vendor at Columbus.
11:22:06 Ms. Coyle will be addressing that.
11:22:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's let council take up item 99 and
11:22:13 then we need to turn it over to Councilwoman Miller.
11:22:16 Item 99 is a report that we received from the chief of
11:22:19 police office, and first of all let me just preface my
11:22:22 statements and say that I always had a great deal of

11:22:30 respect for law enforcement, teachers.
11:22:32 I come up from the time where you saw policemen, you
11:22:35 saw a teacher, postman, mailman carrier, you were held
11:22:41 in high esteem, taught to respect them, yes, sir, no,
11:22:45 sir, those kinds of things.
11:22:46 I have carried that value with me over the years,
11:22:48 continue to do so.
11:22:52 I have had my encounters in the past.
11:22:53 However, keeping in mind there's always sometime there
11:22:57 are those that do violate some of the policies that
11:23:05 have been established, not everybody.
11:23:06 So you have to be careful and don't lump everybody
11:23:09 into the same category.
11:23:12 You look at teachers today. Not all teachers are sex
11:23:15 offenders, but we are having more in the public school
11:23:19 but not all of them.
11:23:20 We have great teachers.
11:23:22 So all police officers are not corrupt either.
11:23:27 I think the world of officer Miller ha has done a
11:23:29 great job for us and those here and others throughout
11:23:32 our community.
11:23:34 However, there can be those who go to the extreme.

11:23:38 And so I want to preface that.
11:23:41 My concern today is -- and I got a report yesterday.
11:23:49 You know, Tay exception to that.
11:23:50 We have on our agenda 119 items.
11:23:53 To get a report yesterday, you know, is kind of late.
11:23:59 You don't have an opportunity to go through it
11:24:00 thoroughly.
11:24:03 Or to ask any questions.
11:24:04 Because I read the report.
11:24:06 I had a lot of questions because everyone in this
11:24:07 report, there's no disposition on how these cases are
11:24:13 handled.
11:24:14 Or what happened to the March 15th case?
11:24:17 What happened to the May 17 case?
11:24:18 What happened to the September 1st case?
11:24:21 There's no disposition of these cases, adjudication or
11:24:25 whatever.
11:24:26 So here again we have a report in my opinion that it's
11:24:30 not complete.
11:24:31 So I have a concern about that, getting reports at the
11:24:33 last minute.
11:24:33 I keep stressing that.

11:24:36 I just take exception to that when we get reports.
11:24:39 We have a board meeting the next day.
11:24:40 We have a report at the last minute.
11:24:42 It not helpful to council.
11:24:43 That's number one.
11:24:44 Number two is at some point we look at these kinds of
11:24:48 complaints.
11:24:50 At some point, someone should ask the question, what
11:24:53 is happening here in public housing?
11:24:55 How these issues or complaints have been addressed.
11:24:58 I don't know.
11:24:59 Okay.
11:25:01 It's clear there's something going on here.
11:25:05 At some point, why didn't they move this particular
11:25:08 officer from the area and try another officer to see
11:25:11 if we get the same results or something of that
11:25:13 nature.
11:25:13 I don't know whether that's been tried or not.
11:25:15 But there's no response to these kind of allegations
11:25:18 or to these problems.
11:25:19 Now, I talked with our city attorney, Mr. Fletcher,
11:25:24 because at some point you all on council, when you

11:25:27 have a community, when you have people that are crying
11:25:30 out for you for help, and they don't know where to go,
11:25:35 this is the only forum they have.
11:25:36 Now, I am a strong believer in the city charter.
11:25:39 And so I talk with city attorneys saying, what can we
11:25:43 do respecting the charter?
11:25:45 My position was that we look at pointing an
11:25:49 independent task force to take a look at what is going
11:25:52 on, and of course the city attorney may want to speak
11:25:59 to that issue.
11:26:00 Similar to what happened with the county jail, what
11:26:03 happened there, Sheriff Gee appointed an independent
11:26:09 body to take a look at the procedure, the policy on
11:26:11 what was happening and come back with a
11:26:13 recommendation.
11:26:13 So could you speak to what I'm speaking of here?
11:26:18 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Chip Fletcher, city attorney.
11:26:20 Without speaking to the effectiveness of that
11:26:25 particular approach, I just want to kind of talk about
11:26:28 that in context with the charter and compare that to
11:26:30 how that fits with you all's authority.
11:26:34 In the charter, there's section 2.14, which talks

11:26:38 about investigations.
11:26:42 Taking a look at this and comparing to the other
11:26:45 investigative authorities, and here you have a
11:26:47 limitation which focuses in on legislative powers as
11:26:51 opposed to the Florida legislature, U.S. Congress,
11:26:53 which does not have that limitation.
11:26:56 So I read that to mean that you can investigate as
11:27:00 long as you focus on legislative issues, which would
11:27:02 be policies, procedures, ordinances such as councilman
11:27:08 Dingfelder indicated, related to trespass at the
11:27:13 housing authority, those types of things, things such
11:27:16 as individual assignments of officers or city staff,
11:27:19 individual decisions and dispositions on cases are in
11:27:24 my view outside that investigative authority, would
11:27:28 make one note, though, you have an individual direct
11:27:32 enforcement content within the scope of your
11:27:37 investigative authority on other legislative bodies
11:27:40 that have to go to court.
11:27:41 So you are a little bit limited but you have some more
11:27:44 enforcement authority within your scope.
11:27:46 So in this case, what my view would be is that you
11:27:51 could appoint either a committee of your own members,

11:27:55 or committee of citizens, but they would be limited to
11:27:59 looking at legislative type issues, and not individual
11:28:05 dispensation of cases, assignment of officers, whose
11:28:09 types of things. What Sheriff Gee did as the sheriff,
11:28:12 he obviously had the authority to appoint an
11:28:14 independent body to investigate his own office.
11:28:17 So if someone in the administration were to determine
11:28:20 that this is the way to resolve these issues, they
11:28:23 would be empowered to do that, and so that would be a
11:28:27 method of working into these issues, if it was done by
11:28:30 the administration, or cooperatively between the
11:28:33 administration and the council.
11:28:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What I would do at this point, I want
11:28:39 to give the gavel over to the vice chair, first off,
11:28:42 and I would like to make a motion that we draft a
11:28:44 letter to the mayor asking the mayor to appoint an
11:28:49 independent body to review some of these allegations
11:28:52 that are going on, particularly in public housing,
11:28:55 relative to public housing and law enforcement, and
11:28:58 then, you know, let -- the motion is that we send a
11:29:07 letter asking the mayor that she appoint an
11:29:11 independent body to review the allegations of the

11:29:18 problem that exists between public housing and the law
11:29:21 enforcement agents that are patrolling those areas.
11:29:24 That would be my motion.
11:29:26 Now, if she does not see it necessary to do that, then
11:29:31 I will come back and ask for a motion to appoint a
11:29:33 task force to look at the policies of that.
11:29:37 I think it would be appropriate that the mayor does
11:29:40 it.
11:29:40 She has direct controlling authority, and we can't --
11:29:47 again separation of our policy in the charter.
11:29:49 I think at some point this community has to give some
11:29:52 relief to whatever is going on.
11:29:57 You know, the police may be right in what they are
11:29:59 doing.
11:29:59 I don't know.
11:30:00 I'm not a police officer.
11:30:01 And I support the police officers, and police
11:30:04 department.
11:30:05 But when you have citizens come in here and crying and
11:30:08 saying, please help me, I don't know where to go, at
11:30:11 some point, you have to do something.
11:30:14 You just can't leave them out there, okay?

11:30:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Caetano.
11:30:18 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, the words that you
11:30:21 just said, I was going to make a motion this morning
11:30:23 after hearing the people that came up here and talk
11:30:26 about all the dissension that's going on in the public
11:30:29 housing.
11:30:31 I've always respected police officers.
11:30:34 And I think we need something like that.
11:30:36 Because it's not good.
11:30:38 I would fear for Mr. Rhodes' life out there, to be
11:30:43 honest with you.
11:30:43 To me, he's a target.
11:30:46 And it could be some rat Cal that's going to take him
11:30:49 down.
11:30:49 And before that happens, we have to do something to
11:30:52 rectify it, like Sheriff Gee did.
11:30:55 We all saw it where the man got thrown out of the
11:30:59 wheelchair and now it's being cleaned up and that's
11:31:01 what we have to do.
11:31:03 And I respect the chief.
11:31:04 Every time I have a problem I call the chief.
11:31:06 He answer it is phone.

11:31:07 And some things I want to try to get resolved, and
11:31:10 others we cannot get resolved.
11:31:12 But I think it's a good motion.
11:31:14 That's why I second it.
11:31:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
11:31:19 I'm a product of housing.
11:31:21 I'm a product of Tampa housing.
11:31:24 And I can tell you this.
11:31:26 If I ever did something wrong in Tampa housing, I
11:31:29 wouldn't need a police officer.
11:31:30 My parents would kick me you know where and straighten
11:31:33 me out and beat the hell out of me.
11:31:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's true.
11:31:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I'm not talking about this case
11:31:39 here particularly or anything else.
11:31:41 But we have lost respect, we have lost authority, the
11:31:45 parents are doing the same thing the kids are doing,
11:31:47 and again I want to reference, I'm not talking about
11:31:50 these cases.
11:31:51 But if we are going to look at an investigation, I
11:31:53 want every rap sheet of everyone that's ever been
11:31:56 arrested in those housing to come to us.

11:32:00 I am not going to just look at one side.
11:32:02 I want to look at a total picture of what's going on.
11:32:05 I can tell you that working in those areas is not an
11:32:09 easy thing.
11:32:10 And if you think it is, all of you have the right to
11:32:14 drive with a police officer.
11:32:15 Just go and ask.
11:32:16 They'll put you in a patrol car and they'll show you
11:32:19 what it's about.
11:32:20 And it's a very hard job to do.
11:32:24 What's happening is, education is lacking.
11:32:29 And again I'm not talking about this particular case.
11:32:31 I'm talking in general.
11:32:32 When you look at crime, 30% of all those in state
11:32:35 prison don't have a high school education.
11:32:38 40% that are in federal prison don't have a high
11:32:41 school education.
11:32:43 And 50% that are on death row don't have a high school
11:32:47 education.
11:32:47 I don't care what color you are, what race you are,
11:32:50 what creed you are, you fall into those categories.
11:32:53 It's based on your upbringing.

11:32:55 If I go get a puppy right now, at the Humane Society,
11:33:00 and kick that dog every day of his life, when that
11:33:03 puppy grows up he's going to turn on me.
11:33:06 And that's what life is about.
11:33:08 We have to have respect for each other.
11:33:10 You have to bring up each other in the right way and
11:33:14 treat all equal.
11:33:15 Now, whether we are being equally treated here I don't
11:33:19 know.
11:33:19 So I welcome this.
11:33:20 But if you are going to do something, do it big view.
11:33:24 I don't want a telescope.
11:33:25 I want binoculars you can see from both eyes and make
11:33:30 it available so we know what's going on.
11:33:32 If we are going to say this, the housing authority may
11:33:34 be 110% correct, and they usually are, so what I'm
11:33:39 saying, when I live there, if my lawn wasn't cut and
11:33:43 there was no lawn mowers that day and you just push a
11:33:46 button and it start, it's one of those you pull
11:33:49 yourself.
11:33:49 I was strong then, because if you didn't do it they
11:33:52 come knock on your door.

11:33:57 And now there was no drugs there.
11:33:58 Now I will not stand by, I don't care what the motions
11:34:02 are, and see drug addicts living in public housing.
11:34:06 I'm not going to do.
11:34:07 That and I'm not saying this is the case in this case.
11:34:09 But I will not -- I think that one strike you're out.
11:34:14 When we hold people responsible, who rent the house to
11:34:19 somebody who lives there, we hold the owner of the
11:34:23 house as responsible as we do the tenant.
11:34:26 So I'm saying this is not a one-way street, this is a
11:34:30 two-way street.
11:34:31 And I guarantee you at the end of this you are going
11:34:33 to see a little different picture.
11:34:35 Because we have only heard from one side.
11:34:37 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:34:41 >>CHAIRMAN: Do you want that added in the motion?
11:34:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I may.
11:34:45 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:34:47 All in favor?
11:34:48 Opposed?
11:34:49 (Motion carried)
11:34:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, if I could help with

11:34:53 you 98.
11:34:54 I have two motions on 98.
11:34:56 One I'll go ahead and approve number 98 as it stands
11:34:59 as proposed by staff.
11:35:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:35:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
11:35:07 (Motion carried)
11:35:08 >> I talked with Mrs. Brickhouse from solid waste and
11:35:11 we kind of struck a little agreement.
11:35:13 She's going to come back a year from now and give us a
11:35:16 report on how this nonferrous metal recovery system is
11:35:23 operating and what kind of money it's generating so
11:35:26 ask a report one year from now from Ms. Brickhouse on
11:35:31 this issue.
11:35:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:35:33 (Motion carried)
11:35:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, then, we need five minutes?
11:35:43 Let's take about a five-minute recess and then the CRA
11:35:45 will reconvene.
11:35:46 Okay?
11:35:47 Five-minute recess.
11:35:48 Thank you.

11:35:48 (Recess)



TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, October 16, 2008
1:30 p.m. session

DISCLAIMER:
The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
transcript.
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.

[Sounding gavel]
13:33:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
13:33:15 order.
13:33:16 Roll call.
13:33:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
13:33:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:33:24 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
13:33:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
13:33:29 We need to take up one of the earlier items from the
13:33:32 afternoon, then we'll go back to our regular agenda,
13:33:37 to finish up from this morning.

13:33:40 Mr. Diaz should be here, and of course John is not
13:33:45 here.
13:33:46 And he has to leave.
13:33:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What item is that, Mr. Chairman?
13:33:58 110.
13:33:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, 110.
13:34:04 How do you all want to proceed at this point?
13:34:06 >>> Diaz: I was supposed to answer three questions,
13:34:21 Mr. Chairman.
13:34:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
13:34:35 Why don't we go ahead and open our public hearing, and
13:34:37 also ask everyone to stand and be sworn.
13:34:40 Motion to open?
13:34:42 >>CHAIRMAN: So moved.
13:34:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second?
13:34:44 >> Second.
13:34:46 (Motion carried).
13:34:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If you are going to be speaking before
13:34:48 council today, raise your right hand and be sworn.
13:34:51 (Oath administered by Clerk)
13:34:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On item 110, this is a continued
13:35:05 public hearing.

13:35:06 Mr. Diaz is on a short time constraint.
13:35:11 We are trying to honor that.
13:35:12 But councilman Dingfelder is not here.
13:35:14 He's at H at another meeting.
13:35:16 And it will be awhile before he gets here.
13:35:20 Shortly or something like that.
13:35:21 The question I guess at this point, do you want to
13:35:23 proceed with the four you have here now?
13:35:28 >>> It will make it a little difficult, Mr. Chairman,
13:35:31 when I need four votes.
13:35:32 I think it will be a little difficult for me to
13:35:34 proceed right now.
13:35:35 And as I understand it, is six the best I can hope for
13:35:38 today?
13:35:40 >> Yes.
13:35:41 Well, no, Councilwoman Saul-Sena will not be back.
13:35:45 Let me read this into the record.
13:35:47 Thank you.
13:35:47 This is from Councilwoman Linda Saul-Sena.
13:35:49 Due to a personal matter, I must leave the council
13:35:52 meeting at 12:00 today.
13:35:53 I will be unable to return to council -- I will be

13:35:57 able to return at 3:40 o'clock p.m.
13:35:59 So she won't be back till 3:40 p.m., if the appeal
13:36:03 hearing is still underway.
13:36:04 So we don't look for her until about 3:45.
13:36:08 So the best you will get is probably five.
13:36:10 >>> Mr. Chairman, I don't mean to be obstinate.
13:36:14 I want to be honest, I want to get this thing behind
13:36:18 me.
13:36:18 And I don't know if I can proceed with four council
13:36:20 members, Mr. Chairman.
13:36:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you want a continuance?
13:36:24 >>> To the next available date, please.
13:36:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What's the next available date?
13:36:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Next regular meeting is November
13:36:32 6th.
13:36:35 Unless you want to have something scheduled for a
13:36:37 night meeting.
13:36:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Diaz, I have to apologize.
13:36:42 I'm sorry.
13:36:43 >>> Not your fault.
13:36:45 Is there any way we can do it at an evening chairman?
13:36:48 November 6th we are talking about roughly three

13:36:50 weeks from now.
13:36:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The 23rd I won't be here.
13:36:58 I will be out of town.
13:37:00 Next meeting is the 23rd of the.
13:37:02 You should have six council people here then.
13:37:05 >>> Mr. Chairman, El proceed with six.
13:37:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The 23rd?
13:37:10 >>> Anytime.
13:37:11 You tell us when, Mr. Chairman.
13:37:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
13:37:14 Let me hear from the clerk.
13:37:17 How does the schedule look on the 23rd?
13:37:20 >>THE CLERK: You have on the 23rd a workshop
13:37:22 session at 9 a.m
13:37:24 Workshop also in the afternoon at 1:30.
13:37:30 That night, you have six land rezonings public
13:37:36 hearings, a closure, and a continued --
13:37:40 So we can do it on the 23rd.
13:37:42 Okay.
13:37:42 Motion.
13:37:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, do you have the ability if
13:37:45 you wish to set it up at whatever point on the agenda

13:37:47 if you want to accommodate Mr. Diaz.
13:37:49 You can set it earlier on the agenda if you wish.
13:37:51 >>> Mr. Chairman, I was going to be asked three
13:37:54 questions and you guys were going to vote it up or
13:37:57 down and that was it.
13:37:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
13:37:59 That's correct.
13:37:59 But the question that we raise, Mr. Dingfelder is not
13:38:04 here.
13:38:04 >>> I understand.
13:38:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What I suggest is the 23rd we put
13:38:07 it as the first item on the agenda.
13:38:09 Is that all right?
13:38:10 >>> What time?
13:38:13 >> 6 p.m., the 23rd, put it as the first item on
13:38:16 the agenda to speak to that.
13:38:20 Now, do we need to take public comment?
13:38:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, could you ask if anybody wants
13:38:24 to object.
13:38:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wish to speak, to object to the
13:38:28 continuance?
13:38:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Although I would argue, council, as a

13:38:33 matter of due process, to ask any petitioner to go
13:38:37 forward with only four council members -- I think as
13:38:41 long as the people understand that.
13:38:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Those that are objecting -- the
13:38:45 problem we have is that he has a right to have a full
13:38:48 council here, and he does not have a full council.
13:38:51 So based on that he has a right to ask for a
13:38:53 continuance.
13:38:54 So you have to understand that, okay?
13:38:57 Yes.
13:38:59 State your name.
13:38:59 >>> I'm Ellen Snelling, chair of the Tampa alcohol
13:39:03 coalition.
13:39:03 I want to know what is considered a full council.
13:39:06 All seven members?
13:39:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, there is no specific rule
13:39:10 with regard to how many members must be present,
13:39:13 except for the fact that when you only have four
13:39:15 council members -- and some bodies do have a rule, and
13:39:19 perhaps the county commission has a rule, but 2 City
13:39:22 Council does not have a rule.
13:39:24 But it is clear that when you only have four members,

13:39:26 it requires a unanimous vote, which is a very high
13:39:29 burden.
13:39:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: County commission rules you have to
13:39:32 have at least five members.
13:39:34 Because you have got to have at least four votes.
13:39:36 So they have a rule that you have to have at least
13:39:38 five members present.
13:39:41 >>> We have people coming as far as St. Petersburg
13:39:44 from the church, and, you know, we try every single
13:39:47 time and I'm just wondering when we'll be able to.
13:39:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I understand.
13:39:51 Well, I do know that on the 23rd, I will not be
13:39:53 here, cannot be here.
13:39:55 I will be out of town.
13:39:56 But we expect the other six members to be here on the
13:39:59 23rd, 6 o'clock p.m.
13:40:05 Yes.
13:40:06 Next speaker.
13:40:08 >>> Karen Hernandez, Tampa, Florida.
13:40:10 I just wanted to ask basically the same question, as I
13:40:12 was concerned this is maybe the third time.
13:40:14 And I understand absolutely that you have a right to

13:40:17 have enough people here to make a decision and make a
13:40:20 vote.
13:40:21 And I would just like to say as one of the people that
13:40:23 has been here on a continuous basis, we as the
13:40:26 citizens also have a right to be able to, when we show
13:40:31 up, to be able to have something to move forward as
13:40:35 has been scheduled.
13:40:35 And I just hope and I would -- I would hope that if it
13:40:39 goes to this next hearing that that will be the last
13:40:41 one, please.
13:40:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, and I understand what you are
13:40:44 saying.
13:40:45 But we are operating within the ordinance and under
13:40:49 the Florida statutes, the action, the client of the
13:40:54 petitioner has rights, and we try to accommodate and
13:40:57 make sure that the community is here and all that.
13:40:59 >>> And Mr. Dingfelder will not be here to complete
13:41:01 the five?
13:41:03 >> I don't know when he's coming.
13:41:05 And Mr. Diaz is on a tight schedule as I understand.
13:41:07 He has to be gone by 2:00, I think it is, something in
13:41:12 that parameter.

13:41:12 But Mr. Dingfelder, we don't know what time he will be
13:41:15 arriving.
13:41:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, not only does this
13:41:18 petition very the right but anyone else in the
13:41:20 audience has the same right to ask for the same
13:41:22 continuance.
13:41:23 If I was on that side and I only saw four members
13:41:26 here, I wouldn't hold the hearing.
13:41:29 >>> I do understand.
13:41:33 My question was, do we know at the next hearing if we
13:41:37 will be able to have a full council.
13:41:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you know when the next hearing is
13:41:41 going to be?
13:41:42 Did you understand what is going to be the next
13:41:45 hearing?
13:41:46 >>> I understand in the evening.
13:41:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On the 23rd.
13:41:50 >>GWEN MILLER: 23rd at 6:00.
13:41:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next week, the 23rd, 6 o'clock
13:41:53 p.m.
13:41:54 >>> Mr. Chairman, I will put on the record that as
13:41:56 long as there is at least six members present -- I

13:41:59 understand you are not going to be here.
13:42:01 I don't have any problem.
13:42:02 I am not going to sit here and say I need a full
13:42:04 council.
13:42:05 I'm not going to do that.
13:42:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion on the floor.
13:42:09 Who made the motion?
13:42:09 The motion for continuance.
13:42:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 23rd at 6:00.
13:42:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Second.
13:42:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
13:42:17 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
13:42:19 Opposes?
13:42:20 Okay.
13:42:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to go back now to our staff
13:42:34 reports and try to get through them.
13:42:39 >>> Number 100 through 103, I believe.
13:43:10 >> We have four items again?
13:43:14 >> Yes.
13:43:14 101.
13:43:15 >>> Jake Slater, code enforcement, tax department City
13:43:21 of Tampa, here to speak on numbers 100, 101 and 104.

13:43:25 And I prepared a PowerPoint presentation.
13:43:28 That way, I think I can explain it to you using the
13:43:31 PowerPoint presentation.
13:43:48 I was asked to come back and report on a computer
13:43:50 system utilized by code enforcement, currently called
13:43:53 the "comply" system.
13:43:57 We began using the comply system, application system
13:44:01 back in 1989.
13:44:04 It's going on 20 years old.
13:44:12 The system is obsolete.
13:44:15 It's functional but lacks many types of features F.the
13:44:18 system fails the data recovery is extremely overall
13:44:21 difficult.
13:44:22 Obviously, we are working on finding some new type of
13:44:29 placement.
13:44:34 The next slide will show you when it was implemented
13:44:37 back in July of 1989, at that time we had only had
13:44:40 about 15 or 16 code enforcement inspectors.
13:44:43 We had originated just under 5,000 cases with
13:44:46 approximately 7900 violations.
13:44:54 As you can see we have gone up every year.
13:44:57 Last year in the year 2007 our total code cases were

13:45:02 offer 32,000.
13:45:03 And the number of violations was over 66,000
13:45:07 violations in the City of Tampa.
13:45:10 The hanson system didn't get off the ground.
13:45:27 It was initiated by the business and housing and also
13:45:30 the water department.
13:45:40 Through numerous hours of looking at it, testing it,
13:45:42 significant errors were discovered, and it was found
13:45:46 to be unusable for the City of Tampa.
13:45:51 The testing halted back in September of 2006, and then
13:45:54 the overall litigation began with the legal department
13:45:58 and the City of Tampa.
13:45:59 Luckily, the city was able to recoup all of the
13:46:03 funding.
13:46:13 This is where we are now with the code enforcement
13:46:15 system.
13:46:16 The city administration and city leaders have adopted
13:46:19 what's called an enterprise approach.
13:46:21 Departments are now viewed as a connective and not
13:46:27 individual entities.
13:46:27 We are in the process of identifying the code
13:46:29 enforcement business needs, the procurement is

13:46:32 actually planned for early 2009.
13:46:35 The funding has been approved at the fiscal year
13:46:38 budgets 09, 10 and 2011.
13:46:45 The departments within the city that are top
13:46:46 priorities are the financial department, and also the
13:46:49 code enforcement department.
13:46:52 Expectations for implementation is approximately 12 to
13:46:55 18 months.
13:47:03 Are there any type of questions at all concerning the
13:47:06 Comply system or hanson system or the new enterprise
13:47:09 approach?
13:47:10 The next item that I was asked to report to council
13:47:17 was on the civil side, citation process.
13:47:20 This is an example of the citation process and of the
13:47:23 notice of violations.
13:47:28 The civil citation process was approved by council
13:47:31 back in March 2008.
13:47:32 It took us several months to fine tune the internal
13:47:35 processing systems within our department, and it was
13:47:37 finalized in approximately August of this year.
13:47:40 I think there was a misunderstanding that actually
13:47:44 self-citation was the same as a traffic sixth ticket.

13:47:47 That's not the case.
13:47:53 Normally a notice of warning has to be issued.
13:47:56 With the exception of three areas.
13:47:59 If it's a repeat violator, if it's irreparable or
13:48:04 irreversible, the violations, or if it's of immediate
13:48:08 or immediate nature to the health, safety and welfare
13:48:12 of citizens.
13:48:12 Again there was a misunderstanding that the civil
13:48:14 citation was going to be used as an actually traffic
13:48:17 ticket in the same manner.
13:48:20 And that cannot be used with the exception of those
13:48:22 throw areas.
13:48:24 Currently we have issued about 12 or 13 notices, and
13:48:28 we were able to issue for the first time last week the
13:48:32 actual first overall civil citation for a business up
13:48:36 on Nebraska Avenue.
13:48:37 It was a car lot, and they were parking cars, and also
13:48:43 with motor vehicles in the parks all over the place
13:48:47 and horrible conditions, so they had the civil
13:48:50 citation.
13:48:51 And you asked me about the fine overall structure.
13:48:57 Here is the fine type of structure and some examples

13:48:59 of the code violations in each of the classifications.
13:49:03 There is a misprint under class 4, $450 each.
13:49:13 That is the fine type of structure.
13:49:15 Again mandatory court appearance is required for the
13:49:17 third and also later repeat offenses.
13:49:19 Mandatory civil court appearances.
13:49:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Before you move up.
13:49:30 I just wanted to catch him on this slide.
13:49:33 Where is the sign code violation?
13:49:34 I don't see it under any of those classes.
13:49:38 >>> The sign code violation would be a class 1.
13:49:43 There's a lot of other different violations which I
13:49:46 actually couldn't list them all for lack of space.
13:49:49 >> Okay, thank you.
13:49:53 >>> The next slide, you asked about how many cases
13:49:58 were referred to the Hillsborough County criminal
13:50:00 court system.
13:50:02 Code enforcement violations.
13:50:04 2007, there was 68.
13:50:06 As of last week there were a total of right around 52
13:50:10 cases referred to the Hillsborough County court
13:50:12 system.

13:50:24 Currently the department has open over 25,000 cases
13:50:27 and luckily presently there are 5100 active code cases
13:50:36 that comprise of 1395 separate violations.
13:50:39 1700 of those cases have already been sent to the code
13:50:43 board.
13:50:44 Out of those cases, 1088 are scheduled to go to the
13:50:49 future code boards.
13:50:51 This is a slide I'm awful proud of here, took a lot of
13:51:00 work.
13:51:01 This is how the code enforcement divided the City of
13:51:03 Tampa.
13:51:04 We have district 1, 2 and 3.
13:51:06 And if I -- if we are able to go into these actually
13:51:11 census tracks, the numbers represent census tracks.
13:51:15 If you want me to put up how many active code cases we
13:51:17 have, say over in West Tampa, track number 27.
13:51:25 Okay.
13:51:27 Pull up number 27 or 28.
13:51:29 Okay, there is West Tampa active code cases, in that
13:51:33 type of census track.
13:51:39 Those are the violations.
13:51:40 If we go up to Sulphur Springs in the census track

13:51:43 number 10, we have 327 active code cases.
13:51:50 So there were some comments last time I was here about
13:51:53 the differentiation of the areas of Tampa.
13:51:57 And this really spells it out very, very well.
13:52:00 Yes, there is.
13:52:03 If I had to make any comments right now, probably
13:52:05 Sulphur Springs would be number one, West Tampa number
13:52:09 two.
13:52:11 If you look up around New Tampa, up around census
13:52:16 track 110 and 102 up there, very few up in that area.
13:52:21 Mainly sign cases, and mainly vacant homes.
13:52:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Joe is taking C credit for it.
13:52:35 >>GWEN MILLER: He cleans it himself.
13:52:37 >>> But if anybody wants additional information I will
13:52:39 be happy to give more information.
13:52:44 The next item I was asked to come back to council was
13:52:46 about the vacant structures.
13:52:49 This is a map of the City of Tampa that actually
13:52:51 depicts the vacant structures, and the structures that
13:52:54 we have.
13:52:58 You can see where the concentrations are.
13:53:00 Central Tampa.

13:53:01 West Tampa.
13:53:03 And up in Sulphur Springs.
13:53:06 Currently we have 351 active code cases for vacant
13:53:12 actually structures.
13:53:15 We are having kind of an epidemic with that right now.
13:53:19 And also once a structure is vacant where the
13:53:25 homeowner has the obligation to actually keep it up,
13:53:28 mow the lawn and also secure it.
13:53:31 This keeps us very, very busy.
13:53:39 Foreclosures, another epidemic in the City of Tampa.
13:53:44 This is currently from January 1st until the end
13:53:47 of September is over 1200 bank foreclosures within the
13:53:51 city limits of Tampa that have been filed by the
13:53:53 Hillsborough County property appraiser's office.
13:53:57 Currently, the City of Tampa legal department has
13:54:00 initiated 25 cases, 25 foreclosure actions.
13:54:04 We have a map that actually shows where these are
13:54:09 actually located, if anybody wants to see it.
13:54:12 And this is increasing every day.
13:54:16 It keeps us very, very busy with foreclosure issues.
13:54:22 And that's it.
13:54:24 Do you have any questions concerning any of the things

13:54:27 they've talked about today?
13:54:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman?
13:54:44 The reason I asked, this isn't exactly on point but a
13:54:47 little bit, I asked Mr. Slater about the sign code
13:54:50 violations and how that fits in with the civil
13:54:54 citation programs.
13:54:55 And the reason I mention it, at this time of year we
13:54:59 get political signs, and then we get political signs
13:55:02 that don't meet code.
13:55:06 Some of the most blatant ones are the 4 by 8 signs.
13:55:11 4 by 8 signs, 4 feet by 8 feet are allowed in the
13:55:14 county, but they are not allowed in the city.
13:55:17 The largest signs are allowed under city code are
13:55:21 2-by-4, or 8 square feet, I believe.
13:55:25 Is that correct, Jake?
13:55:29 8 square feet per side.
13:55:31 But, anyway, way get a little bit annoyed about is
13:55:38 with the political sign thing is just -- and there's
13:55:41 one right on Bayshore Boulevard right now, a 4 by 8,
13:55:45 and I think you have given them probably a warning
13:55:47 notice at this point.
13:55:48 But obviously they are ignoring it because now we come

13:55:52 by and it's still up.
13:55:54 And it was in the newspaper and everything.
13:55:56 So I'm just wondering, you know, if you have the tools
13:56:01 necessary to really make a meaningful difference in
13:56:05 terms of enforcement, you know, on these types of
13:56:09 thing.
13:56:09 Because if when don't we should either beef up our
13:56:12 code to give you those tools, or we should just
13:56:15 eliminate it completely, and let anybody do anything,
13:56:19 because at least that way, you know, the rules should
13:56:22 apply to everybody, and some people are being --
13:56:31 >>> But the political -- the problem we have the S we
13:56:35 have to cite the property owner.
13:56:38 >> And I think I want to be consistent, since we have
13:56:41 a time constraint today, is refer this to legal.
13:56:43 And obviously it won't help us this election cycle,
13:56:46 but in future election cycles maybe we can beef up the
13:56:49 code where we can cite not only the property owner,
13:56:53 but possibly, you know, the campaign itself.
13:56:59 And, you know, at a minimum we could put the campaign
13:57:03 on notice for something or other.
13:57:06 Because right now, it makes sense.

13:57:08 You loot up in the property records.
13:57:10 You try and get in touch with the owner, you know,
13:57:13 et cetera, et cetera.
13:57:14 But it's the campaign that's actually benefiting from
13:57:16 it.
13:57:19 >> I sent you copies of the letters to the supervisors
13:57:23 office to ask for their help.
13:57:25 >> And I would say 95% of the campaigns abide by the
13:57:28 code but if you get 5% who are not, then it's really
13:57:31 not fair to everybody else.
13:57:33 So what I would like to do is -- and there's a couple
13:57:38 of other issues in that code that I think need
13:57:42 addressing.
13:57:43 So, Mr. Chairman, with what would be the best way?
13:57:46 Do you think we could workshop that usual you in the
13:57:49 winter?
13:57:50 I don't know what our workshop is looking like.
13:57:58 In January.
13:57:58 I mean, there's no urgency since we are now two years
13:58:01 away from the next election.
13:58:02 But what are we looking at, Marty, January, February?
13:58:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have a workshop at 9 o'clock p.m.

13:58:09 You have two workshops, one on affordable housing
13:58:12 update.
13:58:13 The 9 a.m. is regard contracting issues, regard to
13:58:18 local vendor preference, you only have two items
13:58:24 presently.
13:58:25 January 29th.
13:58:27 February, you have one item to discuss.
13:58:33 Economic development, and incentives being provided to
13:58:36 the city to local businesses for large natural global
13:58:40 companies, and that's at 9 a.m.
13:58:43 >> How about, let's say, 10 a.m. to workshop this
13:58:47 issue and talk about the ordinance, and maybe between
13:58:51 now and then, I'll talk to legal about some of our
13:58:53 options, what we can and can't do, as related to this
13:58:58 ordinance.
13:58:58 And the other thing is, one thing I noticed this
13:59:00 morning is you are only allowed one political sign in
13:59:04 your residential yard, okay?
13:59:06 But the reality is, many people who are involved in
13:59:10 politics have two or three of the little signs in
13:59:13 their yard, because nobody knows that that's a
13:59:16 violation of our current code.

13:59:17 Frankly, I think it warrants the small little signs,
13:59:21 you know, if you are interested in this race, this
13:59:23 race and this race, you should be allowed to have, you
13:59:25 know, two or three little signs.
13:59:27 And it shouldn't be a violation of code.
13:59:30 I think when we get into the bigger signs that are
13:59:33 more sort of nuisance-like is where we should be
13:59:38 cracking down.
13:59:39 So, anyway, let's go ahead, and if it's council's
13:59:43 pleasure, I hope it is, to set up a workshop for
13:59:46 February, and in between now and then, anybody who is
13:59:48 interested can chat with legal and we'll talk to Jake
13:59:52 about some ideas, and what we might want to do.
13:59:54 >>> I have a correction to make, you asked about the
13:59:58 sign code, under the citation process.
14:00:01 I was just advised that currently it is not.
14:00:05 It's not covered.
14:00:05 >> But we could change that.
14:00:07 >>> Yes, we could.
14:00:08 >> And that's something else we should look at then.
14:00:11 All right.
14:00:12 Anybody want to second my motion to workshop?

14:00:15 >>> January 26th at 10 a.m.?
14:00:21 >> It's been moved and seconded we have a workshop.
14:00:24 26th.
14:00:25 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:00:29 Opposes?
14:00:29 (Motion carried).
14:00:31 >>> Thank you.
14:00:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Slater, you covered 100, 101, 102
14:00:37 and 104, right?
14:00:39 >>> Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman.
14:00:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Now do we take up the 103 item?
14:00:45 I think somebody spoke to that, right?
14:00:48 103?
14:00:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's just a memo.
14:00:52 Move to receive and file.
14:00:53 >> Second.
14:00:55 (Motion carried).
14:00:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:01:00 105, we just receive and file on that 105.
14:01:05 >>CHAIRMAN: So moved.
14:01:05 >> Second.
14:01:06 (Motion carried).

14:01:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Jake, would you make sure, since
14:01:11 Ms. Saul-Sena and Ms. Mulhern were the one whose
14:01:14 wanted these report, make sure they get something in
14:01:16 writing of what you just presented?
14:01:19 >>> Certainly.
14:01:19 >> Since they weren't able to be with us today.
14:01:22 >>> A copy of the PowerPoint would be best.
14:01:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
14:01:28 Item 97 need to receive and file.
14:01:30 >> So moved.
14:01:31 >> Second.
14:01:32 (Motion carried).
14:01:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's actually a continuance, the
14:01:36 97 they wanted a continuance to November 6th.
14:01:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:01:43 >> So moved.
14:01:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 97, supposed to continue that.
14:01:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That should have been done as part of
14:01:49 your initial vote.
14:01:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the motion is to continue.
14:01:52 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:01:54 Opposed same sign.

14:01:55 Thank you.
14:01:57 All right.
14:01:57 Item 106.
14:02:03 That is related to the MacDill.
14:02:08 The 23rd.
14:02:09 I believe they wanted the 23rd.
14:02:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I wrote down the 23rd, in the
14:02:19 morning discussion.
14:02:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
14:02:21 Motion.
14:02:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
14:02:23 >> Second.
14:02:23 (Motion carried).
14:02:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:02:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That is a workshop day and I believe
14:02:30 it says scheduled for 1:30 in the afternoon.
14:02:38 >> MacDill is already scheduled?
14:02:40 >> 1:30 p.m. says workshop regarding relief of
14:02:44 MacDill air installation compatible use zone set
14:02:48 for 1:30 in the afternoon.
14:02:52 Sing.
14:02:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So that's where that would go.

14:02:56 November 8th?
14:02:58 >> Come back to that now.
14:03:00 Getting all these staff reports out of the way.
14:03:02 Now we go back to number 7 and then 16.
14:03:17 So if you are all right with that, item 16.
14:03:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move item 16.
14:03:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Second.
14:03:24 (Motion carried).
14:03:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
14:03:27 Then we need to go back and do all those CRA items.
14:03:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The action taken on item 7?
14:03:37 >> No, not yet.
14:03:38 That was 16.
14:03:40 We will do item 7 in just one second.
14:03:42 We need to deal with those CRA items 37 through 46.
14:03:59 Motion.
14:04:00 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
14:04:04 >> Second.
14:04:05 (Motion carried).
14:04:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Clerk, did you get that?
14:04:08 Those items?
14:04:08 Okay.

14:04:10 Item 37 all the way down to 46.
14:04:13 Okay.
14:04:20 Number 7.
14:04:21 Okay.
14:04:22 Councilman Dingfelder.
14:04:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is there someone from staff on item
14:04:28 7?
14:04:33 I was just curious.
14:04:34 It seems strange to me that in regard to the aquarium,
14:04:39 we had a five year agreement, then we had a two-year
14:04:41 agreement and a one-year agreement and I was just
14:04:44 trying to figure out why we are doing this piecemeal
14:04:47 instead of just getting into the 20-year agreement
14:04:50 like we do with most of these institutions.
14:04:54 >>> Wysong, assistant city attorney.
14:04:56 We are currently working on a 50 year lease and
14:04:59 operating agreement with the Florida Aquarium.
14:05:02 We just haven't quite put it to bed yet.
14:05:04 We are still working on some provisions dealing with
14:05:06 the parking lot issue and some other issues with the
14:05:11 lease.
14:05:11 So we just -- we ran up to the deadline where the

14:05:14 current management agreement expired on September
14:05:17 30th, and we needed to extend it for yet another
14:05:20 year.
14:05:20 We could have done it for six months but we just
14:05:23 decided to extend it for yet another year, just in
14:05:26 keeping with.
14:05:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That explains it.
14:05:33 Thank you.
14:05:35 Motion for number 7.
14:05:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Number 7.
14:05:37 Motion by councilman Dingfelder.
14:05:39 (Motion carried).
14:05:43 That takes care of all our staff reports.
14:05:45 We need to go back to item 95 and 96.
14:05:55 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:05:56 Marty, there's a stack next to you the corrected
14:05:58 ordinances.
14:06:05 Just to be clear, it's page 4.
14:06:08 Paragraph 4 that we have discussed.
14:06:09 It went back to the original where all surface
14:06:14 requirement are for the drive aisles to be paged and
14:06:16 the signage was changed to 6 feet and it does note

14:06:19 it's the contact person and phone number, not the
14:06:21 property owner that gets notified on the signage.
14:06:23 I'll turn this in.
14:06:37 >> An ordinance for first reading, an ordinance of the
14:06:39 City of Tampa making comprehensive revisions to City
14:06:43 of Tampa code of ordinances chapter 27, zoning,
14:06:46 amending section 27-177, historic district; Amending
14:06:48 section 27-180, alternative parking requirements;
14:06:48 Amending section 27-241, methods of providing required
14:06:48 parking and loading; amending section 27-246.1,
14:06:48 special event parking lots, interim parking lots and
14:06:48 residential parking for stadium events; amending
14:06:48 section 27-272, special use criteria; special use
14:07:12 criteria amending section 27-545, definitions,
14:07:17 repealing of all ordinances or parts of ordinances in
14:07:20 conflict therewith, providing for severability,
14:07:23 providing an effective date.
14:07:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a question, Cathy.
14:07:32 I'm in favor of the concept of the drive aisles, and I
14:07:34 think, Mr. Miranda, Ms. Saul-Sena made excellent
14:07:39 points this morning.
14:07:40 But I'm just wondering, does this throw them into a

14:07:43 whole SWFWMD scenario in terms of when you pave pretty
14:07:49 much anything you have got to go to SWFWMD and get
14:07:52 permission and do drainage systems?
14:07:55 >>> Within the YC-1 district, which is the core of
14:07:59 Ybor City, they are actually exempt from the SWFWMD
14:08:02 requirements.
14:08:03 That core area.
14:08:04 And that's where the vast -- outer lying lots, those
14:08:09 would tend to be the larger ones.
14:08:11 That's why we did keep the turf option for the parking
14:08:14 spaces.
14:08:15 And there are some additional perimeter landscaping
14:08:19 requirements, too.
14:08:22 >> Thank you.
14:08:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion and seconded by councilman
14:08:26 Miranda.
14:08:27 So moved and ordered.
14:08:29 Item 96.
14:08:30 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being
14:08:32 absent at vote and Mulhern being absent.
14:08:34 The second reading of the ordinance will be held
14:08:37 November the 6th at 9:30 a.m.

14:08:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, 96.
14:08:43 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:08:45 Item 96 is a comprehensive changes to chapter 27.
14:08:48 And if you recall, this particular round a lot of
14:08:52 these were simple corrections to language ranging from
14:08:55 incorrect references to other sections of the code.
14:08:58 We simplified the text amendment procedures simply to
14:09:01 follow state statutes.
14:09:02 The references in the CBD regulations to the public,
14:09:06 art manager and the definition in chapter 4 for public
14:09:09 art.
14:09:16 The correct figure was 19-2 to 19-9 for the strategic
14:09:20 action plan.
14:09:21 The corrections in the overlay districts, taking out
14:09:25 the requirement of the site plan being sent to the
14:09:33 revitalization partnership for East Tampa and West
14:09:35 Tampa, the correction to Kennedy Boulevard corridor,
14:09:39 due to the D.O.T. negotiations with what is allowed in
14:09:42 the right-of-way, considered a State Road, and the
14:09:45 definition of public art, as I said, being changed.
14:09:47 So great deal of it was corrected.
14:09:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?

14:09:57 Want to read it?
14:10:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Public comment.
14:10:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public want to address
14:10:04 council?
14:10:08 >> Move to close.
14:10:09 >> Second.
14:10:09 (Motion carried).
14:10:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move the following ordinance on
14:10:12 second reading, an ordinance of the city of Tampa,
14:10:14 Florida making comprehensive revisions to the City of
14:10:16 Tampa code of ordinances chapter 27, zoning, amending
14:10:19 section 27-184, certificate of appropriateness,
14:10:22 amending 27-393, procedure for amendment application,
14:10:26 amending section 27-394, public notice requirements,
14:10:31 amending section 27-440, development design approval
14:10:34 and procedures, amending section 27-456 development
14:10:38 design approval and procedures, amending section
14:10:40 27-456, designation of corridors, amending section
14:10:47 27-457.2, Channel District bonus, methodology and
14:10:51 calculation, list of bonus amenities, amending section
14:10:54 27-461, South Howard commercial overlay district
14:10:57 development design standards, amending section 27-465,

14:11:01 East Tampa overlay district design guidelines,
14:11:04 amending section 27-466, West Tampa overlay district
14:11:08 development design standards, amending 27-468, Kennedy
14:11:12 Boulevard corridor district development design
14:11:15 standards, amending 27-545, definitions, repealing all
14:11:20 ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict
14:11:23 therewith, providing for severability, providing an
14:11:25 effective date.
14:11:29 >>THE CLERK: Was that the substitute ordinance?
14:11:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I sure hope so.
14:11:37 Does Vermont the same title?
14:11:39 That will be the substitute ordinance.
14:11:40 Thank you.
14:11:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
14:11:43 Seconded by councilman Miranda.
14:11:44 Record your vote, please.
14:11:56 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena and Mulhern
14:11:58 being absent.
14:12:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's take up item 117.
14:12:04 117 is a continuance to December 4th.
14:12:07 Motion?
14:12:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open 111 --

14:12:21 >>CHAIRMAN: Wait, we have a continuance for 117.
14:12:24 >> Do I need a continuance --
14:12:33 It's a continuance request.
14:12:34 Do you want to oppose it or object to it or what?
14:12:37 >>> No, I would like for to the carry.
14:12:39 >> Do you have a date in particular?
14:12:45 He's represented by Mr. Grandoff, right?
14:12:47 >> Yes.
14:12:48 We are requesting either December 4th or December
14:12:50 18th.
14:12:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The 4th is what we agreed on in
14:12:58 our meeting.
14:12:59 So is there a motion?
14:13:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let's open 111 through 119.
14:13:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
14:13:06 (Motion carried).
14:13:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you wish to hear from anybody who
14:13:11 wished to object to that date?
14:13:13 >> Item 117.
14:13:14 Anyone want to address council?
14:13:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to continue to December
14:13:18 4th at one time?

14:13:22 >>THE CLERK: 1:30.
14:13:24 >> Second.
14:13:24 (Motion carried).
14:13:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 111.
14:13:32 All these items have been opened.
14:13:40 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:13:55 V 08 73 located at 2702 West Kennedy Boulevard.
14:13:59 They are requesting alcoholic beverage sales for small
14:14:01 venue, 4(COP-R), that is the sales of beer, wine and
14:14:06 liquor, in association with a restaurant for
14:14:08 consumption on premises only.
14:14:10 The site is located in a CG district.
14:14:14 The building contains 2253 square feet.
14:14:17 25 parking spaces are required.
14:14:18 There are 24 being provided.
14:14:21 10 compact and one handicapped space.
14:14:26 There are three waivers noted on page 1 and the
14:14:30 additional waiver from 25 spaces to 24.
14:14:32 You will note that we found it inconsistent, and just
14:14:35 to be clear, the comments that are on page 2 and 3,
14:14:39 number 2 and 3 transportation solid waste, are the
14:14:46 comments based on plan.

14:14:49 Very next day the plan was changed.
14:14:51 So the comments have recently come in due to the
14:14:55 one-day change.
14:14:56 The comments have recently come in, and I do have them
14:14:58 for the record.
14:14:59 This can be -- if council is still inclined you can
14:15:03 certainly approve it on first reading.
14:15:06 Rezoning for other special uses making note these
14:15:09 would be changed between first and second reading.
14:15:12 These notes would be added to the site plan.
14:15:14 From transportation the pavement and the right-of-way,
14:15:15 the corner of Kennedy and Arrawana is removed and
14:15:19 restored for the transportation technical manual.
14:15:21 Sidewalk needs to be shown continuous to the driveway.
14:15:24 And it's a simple line change.
14:15:27 Just to show you what they mean by that.
14:15:30 It's interesting actually because I reviewed the plan
14:15:45 yesterday and that line wasn't there so I don't know
14:15:47 when the line appeared.
14:15:53 Last waiver under the waiver section from 25 to 24.
14:15:57 It shows from 2 to 24.
14:16:03 So the number needs to be corrected.

14:16:05 There's three additional comments that just came in
14:16:07 from solid waste, dimensional notations, and just the
14:16:13 dimension of the apron itself.
14:16:16 There really are just some note changes to be made.
14:16:18 I'll submit those for the record.
14:16:20 And those were the changes that needed to be made.
14:16:22 We have no other issues with the site plan, or with
14:16:25 the request.
14:16:27 As long as the changes are made.
14:16:31 Would you like to see any of the pictures just to see
14:16:33 what the site is?
14:16:35 >> Okay, that would be fine.
14:16:36 >> Located at Kennedy and Arrawana, on this corner.
14:16:40 This is Arrawana, it's looking northeast.
14:16:47 This is the south corner of the street.
14:16:50 And this is the southwest.
14:16:52 This is the building.
14:16:56 Here it is right here.
14:16:57 Used to be the cafe Contrae, if you are familiar with
14:17:04 the site.
14:17:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The Contrae, did they have wet
14:17:30 zoning previously?

14:17:32 >>> It should be on the historical page of the staff
14:17:34 report.
14:17:35 Yes, ordinance 1993-56, went dry October of 2006.
14:17:44 Thank you.
14:17:47 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police.
14:17:50 City of Tampa police has no objections to this wet
14:17:53 zoning.
14:17:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
14:17:58 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Here on behalf of concepts.
14:18:03 We are respectfully requesting your approval.
14:18:04 This was previously a restaurant.
14:18:06 It's being extensively renovated.
14:18:09 The entire insides are being removed and rebuilt.
14:18:12 And under your new code requirements, when the
14:18:17 calculations come back, the change, the difference in
14:18:21 the parking is being required.
14:18:22 Previously, the site met the parking requirement.
14:18:25 When you start adding square footages and uses and
14:18:28 things like that, that's what happens with your
14:18:33 parking waivers.
14:18:34 To my knowledge there were no issues of any concern
14:18:37 from anyone.

14:18:40 Be the dimensional criteria for the solid waste
14:18:44 dumpster, all were added some time ago -- ago as well
14:18:48 as the changes on the site plan.
14:18:49 We are respectfully asking your approval.
14:18:53 For whatever reason anything that's not showing up on
14:18:55 the site plan we'll correct between first and second
14:18:58 reading.
14:19:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here wish to address council on
14:19:04 this item, item 111?
14:19:06 Anyone wish to address council may come forward, state
14:19:09 your name and address.
14:19:10 You have three minutes.
14:19:14 >> My name is Trish Moore, address is 1013 South
14:19:19 Dakota Avenue and I'm here to support this petition.
14:19:26 I know the person, the owner of this restaurant to be
14:19:30 personally.
14:19:31 He worked at cafe Dufresne for many years.
14:19:35 I don't know if you are familiar with cafe Dufresne.
14:19:39 But this restaurant is going to be as cultured, as
14:19:43 upscale as cafe Dufresne.
14:19:45 And quite frankly, what was there before was a blight
14:19:49 to Kennedy Boulevard.

14:19:50 What's coming because of this petitioner is something
14:19:53 very beautiful.
14:19:54 And I think it would be a very, very big mistake if
14:19:58 you were to cost this person his business.
14:20:05 I think it's reasonable considering the menu
14:20:08 everything there.
14:20:09 It would be complemented greatly by this particular
14:20:11 license.
14:20:11 Thank you.
14:20:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
14:20:13 >>CHAIRMAN: Move to close.
14:20:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
14:20:18 (Motion carried).
14:20:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Make a motion we send to legal to
14:20:23 prepare an ordinance.
14:20:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
14:20:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you have the ordinance?
14:20:32 You have no ordinance?
14:20:37 >>> I do have an ordinance but the exhibit is
14:20:44 unattached so I will bring that and have it for first
14:20:46 reading.
14:20:47 >> We have those issues addressed by Ms. Coyle, right?

14:20:52 >>> You should put in the motion that will be done on
14:20:54 the site plan between first and second reading.
14:20:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:20:58 Item 112.
14:21:12 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:21:14 Case V 08-74 located at 4401 West Gandy Boulevard, a
14:21:20 CVS location, a 2(APS) license for beer and wine
14:21:23 package sales in association with a pharmacy retail
14:21:26 store.
14:21:27 The property site contains 13,135 square feet within
14:21:31 the building, 83 parking spaces are provided.
14:21:34 You will note there are three waivers on page 1 for
14:21:37 the distance separations.
14:21:39 Page 2 are the locations by name and address that lie
14:21:44 within 1,000 feet.
14:21:45 There were no objections.
14:21:47 The technical objections based on the site plan.
14:21:49 This CVS was approved through special use 1 for the
14:21:53 drive-thru through facility as well and they did meet
14:21:56 the criteria for that.
14:22:00 This is Manhattan and Gandy on the northwest corner.
14:22:04 For those of you that are familiar with the location,

14:22:06 I believe this is the Wendys across the street,
14:22:09 basically.
14:22:12 You can see the CVS being built currently.
14:22:24 Landmarks.
14:22:25 Thank you.
14:22:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer Miller.
14:22:27 >>> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police department,
14:22:29 City of Tampa police have no objection to this wet
14:22:32 zoning.
14:22:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
14:22:34 >>> Good afternoon.
14:22:37 Grace Yang, 201 North Franklin Street, suite 2200,
14:22:41 Tampa.
14:22:42 As stated before, this is for the CVS.
14:22:44 We are requesting your approval for beer and wine
14:22:47 package.
14:22:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public?
14:22:50 Anyone from the public wish to address council on this
14:22:52 petition?
14:22:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question.
14:22:58 Counselor, this is probably a silly question.
14:23:02 When you go through a drive-through like this, is it

14:23:04 just for the pharmacy?
14:23:06 >>> For the pharmacy department only.
14:23:08 You cannot get beer and wine through the drive
14:23:11 through, no, sir.
14:23:11 >> Okay, thank you.
14:23:19 Not part of the CVS store model.
14:23:21 >> Move to close.
14:23:23 >> Second.
14:23:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
14:23:26 (Motion carried).
14:23:27 Is there an ordinance?
14:23:30 Move to send it to legal for an ordinance to be drawn.
14:23:35 You have one?
14:23:38 One tells me no, the other one says yes.
14:23:42 >>CHAIRMAN: An ordinance approving a special use
14:23:50 permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, small venue
14:23:53 and making lawful the sale of beverage containing
14:23:57 alcohol.
14:24:03 This is for CVS?
14:24:05 >> They are building a new store there.
14:24:07 They took over my Burger King that was there.
14:24:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: They did it through the existing --

14:24:16 >>CHAIRMAN: All right, start again.
14:24:17 S-2 for alcoholic beverage sale, small venue making
14:24:20 lawful the sale of beverage containing 1% by weight
14:24:24 and not more than 14% by weight and wines regardless
14:24:27 of alcoholic content, beer and wine, 2(APS), in sealed
14:24:31 containers for consumption off premises only, at or
14:24:33 from that certain lot, plot or tract of land located
14:24:36 at 4401 West Gandy Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, as more
14:24:40 particularly described in section 2 hereof, approving
14:24:43 waivers as set forth herein, waiving certain
14:24:47 restrictions as to the distance based upon certain
14:24:50 findings providing for the repeal of all ordinances in
14:24:53 conflict providing an effective date.
14:24:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
14:24:56 Miranda.
14:24:56 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:25:00 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent
14:25:02 and Saul-Sena being absent at vote.
14:25:05 Second reading of the ordinance will be held November
14:25:07 the 6th at 9:30 a.m.
14:25:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 113.
14:25:12 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.

14:25:14 Case V 08-81, 3401 west Bay to Bay Boulevard,
14:25:20 requesting a 2(COP-X) for sale of beer and wine
14:25:24 restricted to consumption on-site only.
14:25:26 This is a PD development.
14:25:28 In association with a cooking school.
14:25:33 Land development did find it inconsistent.
14:25:36 There is a waiver that needs to be adjusted on the
14:25:37 site plan.
14:25:38 But that can be made between first and second reading.
14:25:43 Transportation had a similar comment related to the
14:25:46 parking waiver, which is a simple change on the site
14:25:48 plan.
14:25:50 There are three waivers noted on page 1 that has to do
14:25:54 with the distance separation, and then the parking
14:25:56 waiver from 109 to 89 spaces.
14:25:59 This is a mixed business development, which you may be
14:26:04 familiar with, at Bay to Bay, and Concordia.
14:26:08 Just to give you an example.
14:26:10 This front building, which is the subject site itself,
14:26:17 chefs on the loose.
14:26:18 There's also some other businesses in there, including
14:26:23 different types of galleries, and office, and a nail

14:26:27 salon.
14:26:29 I believe Starbuck's is in that one.
14:26:32 The only objection that we really have, just to recap,
14:26:35 is just the change in the waiver that needs to be
14:26:37 corrected.
14:26:39 I'm available for any questions.
14:26:44 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
14:26:46 department.
14:26:47 City of Tampa police department has no objections to
14:26:50 this wet zoning.
14:26:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
14:26:52 >>> Steve smallhertz, Tampa, Florida, one of the
14:26:58 owners of chefs on the loose and we respectfully
14:27:00 request we be granted our petition.
14:27:02 Thank you.
14:27:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
14:27:04 council?
14:27:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
14:27:07 >> Second.
14:27:07 (Motion carried).
14:27:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
14:27:10 113.

14:27:11 Is there an ordinance?
14:27:12 Mr. Miranda?
14:27:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14:27:26 Move an ordinance for first reading SU-II, making
14:27:32 lawful the sale of beverage containing alcohol by more
14:27:34 than 1% weight not more than 14% by weight wine
14:27:38 regardless of content bore and wine 2(COP-X) for
14:27:41 consumption on premises only at that certain lot plot
14:27:44 or tract of land located at 3401 west Bay to Bay
14:27:49 section 2 therefore, waiving certain restrictions as
14:27:54 based upon certain findings providing for repeal of
14:27:57 all ordinances in conflict providing an effective
14:27:58 date.
14:27:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
14:28:00 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:28:02 Opposes?
14:28:03 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent
14:28:06 and Saul-Sena being absent at vote.
14:28:08 Second reading of the ordinance will be held November
14:28:11 6th at 9:30 a.m.
14:28:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 114.
14:28:19 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.

14:28:20 Case V 08-83, 900 West Kennedy Boulevard.
14:28:25 They are requesting a 2(APS) beer and wine package
14:28:28 sales only in conjunction with a convenience store gas
14:28:31 station.
14:28:32 Site contains a structure with 1718 square feet, has
14:28:35 recently been renovated, this is the site located the
14:28:39 southwest corner of Kennedy and Boulevard.
14:28:42 Used to be -- it is now the metro market.
14:28:49 It is next to EL bistro.
14:28:54 There are three distance separation waivers noted on
14:28:58 page 1 of the staff report.
14:29:01 There were no objections.
14:29:03 The general standards for your review and
14:29:05 consideration, approval of this petitioner noted on
14:29:10 pages 3 through 6.
14:29:11 I'm available for any questions.
14:29:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer Miller?
14:29:17 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
14:29:22 department.
14:29:23 I have been sworn.
14:29:24 City of Tampa police department has no objection to
14:29:26 this wet zoning.

14:29:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
14:29:28 >> This is a site that has been majorly renovated.
14:29:37 This also had, despite every crime prevention element
14:29:41 added, lights, video screens, Tampa Police
14:29:45 Department -- it operates throughout the city and has
14:29:51 a great history and done a beautiful job of the site.
14:29:53 Thank you.
14:29:55 >> Name for the record?
14:29:56 >> Todd Pressman.
14:29:59 I'm sorry.
14:30:00 Clearwater, Florida 33761.
14:30:02 >> I'm glad you remembered your name.
14:30:06 >> Toughest question I had all day.
14:30:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
14:30:10 council?
14:30:10 Anyone from the public?
14:30:12 >> Trish Moore, 1013 South Dakota Avenue Tampa,
14:30:22 Florida 33606.
14:30:24 I just want clarification on exactly what this 2(APS)
14:30:29 license is going to allow.
14:30:32 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:30:38 For the record a 2(APS) is beer and wine only, no

14:30:41 liquor, package sales only.
14:30:43 They can only consume it off-site.
14:30:45 So it's a normal convenience store like a 7-Eleven,
14:30:49 you can walk in and buy it.
14:30:51 You cannot drink it on-site.
14:30:52 You cannot drink it in the right-of-way because that's
14:30:54 illegal.
14:30:57 >>> I believe this is the license ha that has always
14:31:01 been in place for this particular site.
14:31:03 I don't know if there's a change of ownership or not.
14:31:06 Maybe it has a new name.
14:31:07 But I believe this is the same license that's always
14:31:09 been here?
14:31:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Pressman.
14:31:14 >>> Yes, the operator has a 1(APS) and it has been
14:31:17 operating with a 1(APS).
14:31:19 This is just upgraded to 2(APS).
14:31:22 >>> My husband and I own Frankie's restaurant at 909
14:31:27 west Kennedy directly across the street from this site
14:31:29 so we are very familiar with this site, and it has
14:31:32 been a source of grief for all property owners in the
14:31:36 900 block of Kennedy.

14:31:38 I have to say that the renovation is just fabulous.
14:31:41 I mean, we are thrilled about it.
14:31:43 It was actually the last blighted property on this
14:31:46 block and now this block is 100% renovated.
14:31:50 However, the clientele, the issues that have always
14:31:52 been part of the site are still ongoing, and believe
14:31:55 me I'm there every day so I know.
14:31:57 And my concern is that a lot of these people who are
14:32:06 on foot.
14:32:07 We have the University of Tampa within walking
14:32:08 distance.
14:32:09 We have a large population of vagrants still present
14:32:12 in that neighborhood.
14:32:13 And I think that this police officer probably has
14:32:17 record of that.
14:32:18 So any type of license that increases the potential to
14:32:24 sell more alcohol, whether it's packaged differently
14:32:27 or not, it doesn't change the social issues that are
14:32:30 still present here.
14:32:31 And there are plenty of bars and ABC liquor and all
14:32:35 types of places on Kennedy already.
14:32:37 I'm just concerned about this particular license

14:32:41 encouraging the ongoing problems that we have with
14:32:44 vagrancy, and also I'm concerned begun the students,
14:32:47 and how it affects them as well.
14:32:51 And I think that's pretty much all, except one more
14:32:57 statement.
14:32:57 They have a pay telephone, one of the last few
14:33:01 remaining pay telephones at the southeast corner of
14:33:05 their property, and that attracts a large population
14:33:08 of undesirable elements as well.
14:33:10 Thanks.
14:33:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I certainly don't
14:33:13 want to embarrass anyone, but do you own any
14:33:15 properties with alcohol wet zonings?
14:33:18 I'm speaking.
14:33:19 Yes, ma'am.
14:33:20 Yes, ma'am.
14:33:23 >>> Frankie's restaurant has a 2(COP-R).
14:33:27 >> Right.
14:33:27 And across the street, those buildings, don't you own
14:33:31 the same ones?
14:33:32 >>> The only one I own currently is Frankie's.
14:33:37 I did own Al gust O's Mexican restaurant.

14:33:43 And I also want to -- I just remember way was going to
14:33:46 say, also.
14:33:46 I never got a notice about this particular hearing.
14:33:49 The only reason why I know about this today is because
14:33:52 Alberto Morales Mexican restaurant called me up and
14:33:56 said, they are here again, and so we have a piggyback
14:34:01 arrangement.
14:34:02 If I had to leave he was going to come in.
14:34:03 I didn't get a notice.
14:34:05 And I'm right across the street.
14:34:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, that will be checked by the
14:34:08 records.
14:34:08 And I don't know who the property owner is addressed
14:34:12 to.
14:34:12 >>> The corporation is superior enterprise.
14:34:18 >> See if the addresses were properly mailed.
14:34:21 >>> 2506 west Azeele street.
14:34:24 33609.
14:34:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You are the property owner, not the
14:34:31 tenant?
14:34:31 >>> I am the property owner.
14:34:32 >> And I want to commend you on your improvement on

14:34:34 your own property that was there before.
14:34:36 It was an Italian restaurant that I used to go listen
14:34:39 to the guy from Clearwater play the piano on Friday
14:34:42 and Saturday night.
14:34:43 He was a great pianist.
14:34:44 >>> And we miss him very much, too. And we also
14:34:47 renovated that entire site next door to this market.
14:34:50 >> And these people here.
14:34:51 They have done very well, and the site really looks
14:34:54 nice.
14:34:54 >>> Oh, without question.
14:34:55 But a pretty facade doesn't mean it's going to take
14:34:57 away the social issues that continue to happen here.
14:35:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:35:02 Petitioner.
14:35:04 >>> If I may respond.
14:35:05 I have great respect for the woman who is here.
14:35:08 And I want to take you through some details because
14:35:10 the site was not a nice site.
14:35:13 And as you saw from the elevation initially, if we go
14:35:17 to the overhead, please, this is an entirely new
14:35:22 exterior.

14:35:23 In fact, by extreme coincidence toward the end of the
14:35:27 renovation, I just happened to be there with a client,
14:35:30 and Mr. Dingfelder stopped by.
14:35:32 I was inside.
14:35:33 He didn't see me.
14:35:35 And literally stopped to commend the property owners
14:35:38 for the major investment they are making at the site.
14:35:40 Didn't talk about any of the issues today.
14:35:42 And as Cathy indicated, that includes renovation or
14:35:45 new awning which matches the site.
14:35:47 Much more important than that, one problem is the
14:35:52 alleyway to the side.
14:35:54 This is the store located here.
14:35:56 And what they have done is they have added very bright
14:35:59 lighting here, and also a video camera, which was not
14:36:03 there previously.
14:36:04 They also cleaned up the alleyway and got to look at
14:36:07 it better, so it was a bit overgrown.
14:36:11 Also there was a streetlight and another light inside
14:36:14 here.
14:36:14 So where there have been problems, where, yes, people
14:36:18 may have been for attracted, that has been cleaned up

14:36:20 and that has been well done.
14:36:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:36:24 >>> Additionally --
14:36:26 Okay, that's fine.
14:36:28 Trying to help you out here.
14:36:30 >>> Thank you very much.
14:36:33 Oh, in regard to phone -- I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman.
14:36:35 The police department suggested that would be for -- I
14:36:42 forget whether it was incoming.
14:36:44 They are revising that pay phone as well.
14:36:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
14:36:48 >> Second.
14:36:50 (Motion carried).
14:36:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Got an ordinance?
14:36:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, I am going to move
14:36:56 this ordinance.
14:36:56 If we were starting from scratch with no wet zoning on
14:37:00 this corner, you know, that close to university, then
14:37:03 I might have concern.
14:37:05 But all we are doing is we are going from beer, which
14:37:09 is a 1(APS), to beer and wine, right, Cathy?
14:37:13 Which is a 2(APS).

14:37:14 So I don't see a whole lot of difference there.
14:37:17 And I do realize that area does have some problems.
14:37:20 But I think the improvement these folks are making,
14:37:23 and hopefully operationally as well, will make a
14:37:26 difference.
14:37:27 I move an ordinance approving a special use permit S-2
14:37:30 for alcoholic beverage sales, small venue, making
14:37:32 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol of
14:37:34 more than 1% by weight, and not more than 14% by
14:37:38 weight and wines, regardless of alcoholic, beer and
14:37:42 wine 2(APS) in containers for consumption off premises
14:37:47 only at that certain lot plot or tract of land at 900
14:37:50 West Kennedy Boulevard as more described in section 2
14:37:53 hereof approving waivers set forth herein waiving
14:37:56 certain restrictions based upon certain findings,
14:37:59 providing for repeal of ordinances in conflict,
14:38:01 providing an effective date.
14:38:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
14:38:04 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:38:06 Opposed?
14:38:07 So moved.
14:38:07 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent

14:38:10 and Saul-Sena being absent at vote.
14:38:14 Second reading of the ordinance will be held November
14:38:16 6th at 9:30 a.m.
14:38:18 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:38:22 Case V 08-96 located at 2403 west Azeele street.
14:38:28 This is the request for alcohol seams for 2(APS) in
14:38:30 conjunction with the Publix greenwise store that was
14:38:34 recently approved through rezoning.
14:38:36 It's quite simple.
14:38:37 There are three waivers for distance separation, as
14:38:40 there are apartments and residential around it.
14:38:42 Those locations are noted on page 2.
14:38:45 The criteria for approval or denial, however you view
14:38:49 it, pages 3 through 6.
14:38:51 There were no objections from staff.
14:38:55 These are some recent pictures to show you how it's
14:38:57 coming along.
14:39:01 It's basically matching up to the elevations that were
14:39:03 shown to council.
14:39:05 Those are the adjacent properties.
14:39:10 I'm available for any questions.
14:39:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer Miller.

14:39:17 >> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police department.
14:39:19 We have no objection to this wet zoning.
14:39:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
14:39:25 >> Russell Rottenberg, west Linebaugh Avenue, suite
14:39:33 12, Tampa.
14:39:35 We respectfully request your approval of this wet
14:39:38 zoning.
14:39:38 I would be happy to answer any questions you might
14:39:40 have.
14:39:40 Thank you.
14:39:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:39:44 Anyone wish to address council on this item?
14:39:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
14:39:49 >> Second.
14:39:49 (Motion carried).
14:39:51 >>GWEN MILLER: An ordinance approving a special use
14:39:53 permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sale large venue and
14:39:57 making lawful the sale of beverages change alcohol of
14:40:00 more than 1% by weight and not more than 14% by weight
14:40:04 and wines regardless of alcoholic content beer and
14:40:06 wine 2(APS) in sealed containers for consumption off
14:40:10 premises only from that certain lot plot or tract of

14:40:13 land located at 2403 west Azeele street, Tampa,
14:40:17 Florida, as more particularly described in section 2
14:40:19 hereof, approving waivers as set forth herein, waiving
14:40:23 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
14:40:26 findings, providing for repeal of ordinances in
14:40:29 conflict, providing an effective date.
14:40:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded by Mr.
14:40:32 Miranda.
14:40:32 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:40:34 Opposed same sign.
14:40:37 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being
14:40:38 absent at vote and Mulhern being absent.
14:40:41 Second reading of the ordinance will be held November
14:40:44 6th at 9:30 a.m.
14:40:46 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:40:49 Case V 08-98, 1505 North Dale Mabry highway.
14:40:54 They are requesting a 2(APS) in conjunction with a
14:40:56 Wal-Mart super center that is located at I-275 and
14:41:00 Dale Mabry.
14:41:01 They currently do not have a wet zoning.
14:41:03 I know that question came up earlier in another case.
14:41:05 This is beer and wine package sales only.

14:41:08 If you will note on page 2 of the staff report, there
14:41:11 are five locations that sell alcohol within the
14:41:14 thousand feet, no waivers being requested.
14:41:16 Please note that three out of the five are almost
14:41:18 1,000 feet away.
14:41:19 There are also three residential properties within
14:41:22 1,000 feet and no institutional uses.
14:41:25 There are no technical objections to the site plan.
14:41:28 They meet all that criteria.
14:41:30 And I'm available for any questions.
14:41:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer Miller.
14:41:35 >> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police department.
14:41:38 City of Tampa police department has no objections to
14:41:40 this wet zoning.
14:41:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
14:41:43 >>> Kim Madison with Ruden McCluskey, East Jackson
14:41:51 Street, Tampa, Florida, Wal-Mart stores, Inc. We do
14:41:56 respectfully request approval of the applicant
14:41:58 application for 2(APS) alcoholic beverage special use.
14:42:01 We'll be happy to answer any questions you may have.
14:42:04 I would like to enter into the record a copy of the
14:42:07 site plan and the application and exhibits that have

14:42:09 been discussed.
14:42:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anybody want to speak against
14:42:13 Wal-Mart?
14:42:13 >>CHAIRMAN: Move to close.
14:42:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion.
14:42:20 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:42:22 Opposes.
14:42:23 (Motion carried)
14:42:26 We have an ordinance?
14:42:32 Mr. Caetano, do you want to read that?
14:42:35 >> An ordinance approving a special use permit S-2
14:42:40 alcoholic beverage sales large venue making lawful the
14:42:43 sale of beverage containing alcohol of more than 1% by
14:42:49 weight not more than 14% by weight and wines
14:42:51 regardless of alcoholic content bore and wine, 2(APS),
14:42:55 in sealed containers for consumption off premises only
14:42:58 at or from that certain plot, lot or plot or tract of
14:43:02 land located at 1505 North Dale Mabry highway, Tampa,
14:43:05 Florida, as more particularly described in section 2
14:43:08 hereof, approving waivers as set forth herein, waiving
14:43:13 certain restrictions to distance based upon certain
14:43:15 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in

14:43:19 conflict, providing an effective date.
14:43:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
14:43:23 Miranda.
14:43:23 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:43:25 Opposes?
14:43:26 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being
14:43:29 absent at vote and Mulhern being absent.
14:43:31 Second reading of the ordinance will be held November
14:43:34 6th at 9:30 a.m.
14:43:36 >>REBECCA KERT: I do have the ordinance for the
14:43:44 restaurant on Kennedy, V 08-73.
14:43:55 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance approving special
14:43:57 permits SU 2 sale of alcoholic beverages, regardless
14:44:04 of alcoholic content beer, wine and liquor 4(COP-R),
14:44:08 for consumption on the premises only in connection
14:44:10 with a restaurant business establishment at or from
14:44:13 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at
14:44:17 2702 West Kennedy Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, as more
14:44:20 particularly described in section 2 hereof, approving
14:44:24 waivers as set forth herein, waiving restrictions as
14:44:28 to distance based upon certain findings, providing for
14:44:30 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an

14:44:33 effective date.
14:44:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
14:44:39 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:44:41 Opposes?
14:44:42 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena and Miranda
14:44:46 being absent at vote, and Mulhern being absent.
14:44:50 Second reading of the ordinance will be held November
14:44:52 the 6th at 9:30 a.m.
14:44:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 11.
14:45:07 If you are going to address council -- have you been
14:45:09 sworn?
14:45:09 Anyone here who has not been sworn, will you please
14:45:12 stand and raise your right hand at this time?
14:45:14 If you have not been sworn, will you please stand?
14:45:17 Yes, sir.
14:45:23 >>> Good afternoon.
14:45:25 Today you have before you the continued a pole of the
14:45:29 Variance Review Board's denial of case 0-61.
14:45:36 This appeal was continued from August 2nd, 2008.
14:45:40 Property in this appeal is located at 2117 Rio vista
14:45:44 Avenue, and the applicant and property owner is Chris
14:45:51 Maccaron.

14:45:52 The request was to reduce the west is side setback
14:45:57 with encroachment.
14:45:59 Eaves and gutter to retain the existing carport and
14:46:01 deck.
14:46:03 The VRB denied the application on the basis that the
14:46:09 applicant Mr. Maccaron did not meet the burden of
14:46:14 proof with regard to the hardship criteria set forth
14:46:16 in Tampa code 17.5-75.
14:46:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, may I interrupt for just a
14:46:22 second?
14:46:22 I apologize.
14:46:23 Is this a case related to having a Spanish translator?
14:46:27 >>> Yes, it is.
14:46:28 >> Is a Spanish translator here?
14:46:31 Okay.
14:46:31 Perhaps the Spanish translator should be able to
14:46:33 translate to Mr. Maccaron the things that Mr. Mueller
14:46:39 is saying.
14:46:39 >>> Mr. Maccaron didn't need the translator.
14:46:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, I apologize.
14:46:45 >>> Is he the person you need the translator for?
14:46:51 We have the translator here.

14:46:57 Does the person that needs the translator, are they
14:47:00 here?
14:47:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: They are not here?
14:47:04 They stepped out?
14:47:06 Then she needs to sit with her and translate.
14:47:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Will you please swear the translator?
14:47:16 The question was asked by the chair if everybody had
14:47:20 been sworn and nobody responded.
14:47:23 They all responded that they were sworn.
14:47:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If anybody is going to be
14:47:27 testifying in this hearing right now, please stand and
14:47:29 raise your right hand.
14:47:34 (Oath administered by Clerk).
14:47:34 >> Do you solemnly swear the translate to the best of
14:47:37 your ability, and -- to translate correctly?
14:47:47 Do you solemnly swear the translation will be true and
14:47:59 accurate?
14:47:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: How about the Spanish translator?
14:48:04 If she's going to testify through the translator, you
14:48:06 need to swear her in, too.
14:48:10 >> Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth the whole
14:48:28 truth and nothing but the truth?

14:48:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you very much.
14:48:34 Sorry to interrupt.
14:48:36 I apologize.
14:48:41 >>> I want to remind council that there's to be no new
14:48:49 evidence presented to you today, and your actions will
14:48:51 be solely based upon the record created during the
14:48:53 Variance Review Board hearing.
14:48:57 Neighbors or concerned individuals testifying before
14:48:59 you today, and on this appeal they must have testified
14:49:03 at the Variance Review Board and their testimony
14:49:05 before you today must be limited to what they
14:49:07 testified to at the Variance Review Board hearing.
14:49:09 So at this time I'll turn the podium over to Mr.
14:49:14 Maccaron.
14:49:14 >> Just before Mr. Maccaron begins, the standard of
14:49:17 review is that you have to determine whether the
14:49:20 board's decision was supported by competent
14:49:22 substantial evidence, two, whether due process was
14:49:25 accorded, and, three, whether the essential
14:49:27 requirements of law have been observed.
14:49:29 Again for your -- to refresh your recollection I will
14:49:32 pass out to the council a copy of section 17.5-74, the

14:49:38 application of the variance review panel.
14:49:44 >>CHAIRMAN: Go ahead.
14:49:54 Start.
14:49:54 >>> My name is Chris.
14:49:58 Okay.
14:49:59 >> Your last name, sir?
14:50:01 >> Maccaron.
14:50:03 When we went to the board, was not able to translate
14:50:11 what happened.
14:50:11 Okay.
14:50:12 But prior to this Inc. thing being up ten years ago I
14:50:15 had permission from my surrounding neighbors.
14:50:17 The neighbors who called us in, they didn't even live
14:50:21 there.
14:50:23 They'll make a speech today.
14:50:24 A couple other neighbors have been kind enough to come
14:50:26 here and show support for me today.
14:50:28 They were here also that day but they didn't speak so
14:50:31 they won't be able to speak today.
14:50:32 But you will notice I have a few people with me.
14:50:35 They are all my neighbors on my street.
14:50:37 Okay.

14:50:39 The main thing here is this grants access to my
14:50:43 upstairs, when they asked me to postpone I had done
14:50:46 that, it was inspected, it was passed, and had a
14:50:49 certificate of completion.
14:50:50 Okay.
14:50:53 They suggest maybe moving the stairs to give the four
14:50:55 feet, which is self-supported, too.
14:50:58 It is self-supported off the house but does border the
14:51:00 house.
14:51:02 And then one of the things that the variance board had
14:51:06 said was that being the door on the front, because
14:51:10 they were breaking into property, was in question,
14:51:14 because there was two sides closed off, and if that
14:51:17 please the court that can be removed easily enough.
14:51:20 I have some pictures of that, if that will help.
14:51:23 You guys should already have that, as far as that.
14:51:27 Like I said, it gives access to my upstairs.
14:51:30 That's the hardship.
14:51:32 Right now, I can't afford to do very much of anything.
14:51:35 It's been very difficult lately.
14:51:36 I'm going to be homesteading this property again.
14:51:38 I'm losing my other house that hi bought in January.

14:51:41 We have already put in for that.
14:51:45 I have a neighbor that borders it, they are right
14:51:47 here.
14:51:50 They border to that property are not in disagreement
14:51:53 with it.
14:51:53 Neither are the neighbors on either side of the
14:51:55 property.
14:52:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Keep going.
14:52:04 >>> That's pretty much as far as what I can say to
14:52:06 open it.
14:52:10 As I said this thing does grant upstairs -- access to
14:52:15 the upper that is was permitted and COd.
14:52:21 That was inspected.
14:52:39 The City of Tampa signed off, asked to improve the
14:52:42 railing.
14:52:43 It was all done on drawings.
14:52:47 The thing that came up after it was told that they
14:52:49 wanted it inspected and permitted, and I had all that
14:52:52 done, in place.
14:52:55 And the reason this thing went up in the first place
14:52:57 is because originally I had pole fence they sell at
14:53:03 K-Mart that the city asked me to remove and they gave

14:53:06 me 30 days to put them there. That's the reason why I
14:53:10 ended up with a carport in that location.
14:53:12 Where the poles are, I put them as far off, they go
14:53:19 under so you could access it.
14:53:21 They are four feet off the property line.
14:53:25 The supports to the carport.
14:53:30 >>GWEN MILLER: That's it?
14:53:37 >>> I guess that's all, pretty much.
14:53:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
14:53:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In the transcript, I don't see page
14:53:42 numbers on the transcript.
14:53:46 It not helpful.
14:53:47 Anyway, it looks like it's about six or seven pages
14:53:51 back, and the question, somebody on the VRB asked you,
14:53:56 when did you build this deck or carport?
14:53:58 And you said you built it in 2002.
14:54:04 You come to another board meeting, they wanted you to
14:54:06 remove a car tent, as you just spoke to.
14:54:10 My question is this.
14:54:11 And I hope it in the record below.
14:54:14 Ernie, you can stop me if you wish.
14:54:16 When you built -- you put down the tarp kind of tent

14:54:21 and put up the carport, but you didn't come into this
14:54:24 city to put up the carport, correct?
14:54:26 >>> No, but when they asked me to do so, I had
14:54:30 blueprints drawn and had it submitted and went through
14:54:34 that approval process.
14:54:35 >> That was this year in 2008?
14:54:36 >>> Yes, sir.
14:54:37 They gave me a short period of time to build it.
14:54:40 Gentleman said you can get it done, here's 30 days and
14:54:45 that's what I proceeded to do.
14:54:46 And --
14:54:47 >> Who said that?
14:54:48 >>> The gentleman who I sat in front of the meeting
14:54:50 who gave me the time to get rid of the carport.
14:54:54 The poll tent.
14:54:55 >> Okay.
14:54:56 And then the other question is, it's a carport below.
14:55:01 >>> Yes.
14:55:02 >> But then it's a roof deck on the top?
14:55:05 >>> Yes.
14:55:09 A bonus room.
14:55:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And when did you build the bonus

14:55:13 room?
14:55:14 >>> Actually, I had stairs there in the back of the
14:55:18 house that got me up there, and I raised my kids in
14:55:22 there. That's been there since '91 since I bought the
14:55:25 house.
14:55:26 It was just unfinished.
14:55:28 It wasn't finished to the point --
14:55:29 >> Are those others still there?
14:55:32 >>> No.
14:55:33 >> So now the only way to get there is to go up on the
14:55:37 deck, and then you go in there.
14:55:40 >>> Yes.
14:55:41 And that improves the property -- it really very nice.
14:55:44 I had an inspector there looking at another property
14:55:47 last week and I showed him.
14:55:49 >> This is near the river?
14:55:51 Is that why you built a deck?
14:55:53 >>> No, sir.
14:55:54 It's not near the river.
14:55:58 >> Like I said, the people that it borders that it
14:56:03 does affect are here today to say it's not intrusive
14:56:08 to them or whatever.

14:56:09 And I had their permission before.
14:56:11 I had asked them for their permission.
14:56:13 I went around to all the neighbors that were there at
14:56:16 the time and had their permission.
14:56:17 I didn't just go and -- I guess I didn't go as far as
14:56:20 I should have.
14:56:25 >> Other questions by council members?
14:56:29 Anyone else to speak?
14:56:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry to interrupt, but I believe
14:56:33 that the petitioner had asked for a witness to be
14:56:35 here.
14:56:36 That's why the translator is here.
14:56:37 So perhaps it's appropriate for that person to testify
14:56:40 during his case.
14:56:50 Did you want to call her up to speak?
14:56:52 We have a microphone.
14:56:52 She doesn't have to get up.
14:56:54 We have a microphone there.
14:56:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Did she testify below?
14:57:07 >>> Can you hear me?
14:57:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Let her say what she has to say and
14:57:11 then you translate it to us.

14:57:13 Let her give her name.
14:57:18 >>> MI hambre....
14:57:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Her address, please?
14:57:45 >>> 2119 west vista Avenue.
14:57:58 She's a neighbor.
14:57:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What does she want to tell us about
14:58:04 this?
14:58:05 >>> She says it doesn't bother her what he did.
14:58:13 It doesn't affect her in any way.
14:58:16 She has no problem with him whatsoever.
14:58:24 She's in her house.
14:58:25 They are in theirs.
14:58:27 They never bother her in any way.
14:58:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is she immediately next door to
14:58:31 this carport?
14:58:40 >>> Yes.
14:58:42 Next door to their house.
14:58:45 >> How about any other neighbors?
14:58:47 Have they talked about it?
14:58:49 Are other people concerned?
14:58:50 >>> She says no one has ever said anything to her
14:58:58 about him, he's a very nice man.

14:59:01 No one has ever complained.
14:59:04 Very serviceable, always helping out.
14:59:11 She says she can't say anything bad about him because
14:59:17 she doesn't know anything bad.
14:59:19 He's a very good man.
14:59:22 She swore that she would say the truth and she's not
14:59:29 lying.
14:59:30 >> Gracias.
14:59:41 >>> I have another neighbor here also who has lived
14:59:45 there for 15 years next to me.
14:59:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did that person testify down below?
14:59:51 >>> No.
14:59:52 Can I ask the neighbors -- the neighbors that don't
14:59:56 like me, they are going to testify now, I'm sure.
14:59:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You get rebuttal.
15:00:01 >>> I just want to get through this thing the best I
15:00:03 can.
15:00:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
15:00:06 We'll hear from the public.
15:00:07 Those who spoke at the event below.
15:00:13 >>> My name is Chet Edmund son.
15:00:16 I live at 2118 Rio vista west.

15:00:19 Right across the street.
15:00:21 Directly across the street.
15:00:22 And we have owned our home for 17 years.
15:00:25 And that was prior to the upstairs being built onto
15:00:29 the house.
15:00:30 There was an upstairs.
15:00:31 Obviously there was a roof.
15:00:32 But we supplemented pictures the last time we were
15:00:36 here.
15:00:37 Gentleman as you can see from the dates on all of your
15:00:39 permits, they're all 2008.
15:00:43 This is a ten-year build.
15:00:45 Be the upstairs was added on.
15:00:48 He cut windows into the roof of the house.
15:00:50 The deck.
15:00:51 He added on.
15:00:52 It's not aesthetically pleasing whatsoever.
15:00:56 It looks dilapidated and it looks like cot come down
15:00:59 at any time.
15:01:00 Talking about our neighbors and concern, for the zero
15:01:03 property line, on a wood deck, be if that house
15:01:06 catches on fire, this woman who cannot even get out of

15:01:09 her house without assistance is going to die in that
15:01:12 house.
15:01:13 If a fire were to catch that deck on fire, where they
15:01:16 have a barbecue grill set up, and have barbecues.
15:01:19 Her house is seven feet from that property line.
15:01:25 So it's not a matter of nice or not nice.
15:01:28 It's a matter of we have laws and codes that we all
15:01:31 have to follow.
15:01:32 He owns his own business.
15:01:33 It states on his business sign, he's been in business
15:01:35 for 20 years.
15:01:36 And he stands in front of you guys pleading that he
15:01:39 doesn't understand the laws of the city where you have
15:01:41 got to pull permits before you do work in the city?
15:01:44 That doesn't make any sense.
15:01:45 And so far, I haven't heard any hardship.
15:01:48 The only hardship has been to us, because what this
15:01:51 has done is taken a single-family residential home,
15:01:55 turned it into a duplex.
15:01:57 There's now a tenant on the bottom and on the top.
15:01:59 Mr. Maccaron does not everyone reside in this house.
15:02:03 He lives in the address you have at Henry street.

15:02:06 There's been since April 12th of this year code
15:02:09 enforcement ordered it to be taken down and removed.
15:02:12 So we are asking for a variance after the fact.
15:02:16 Shouldn't the variance have come before the actual
15:02:18 build?
15:02:21 Not in retrospect.
15:02:23 And at the same time, all of this is being done for
15:02:28 nothing more than profit.
15:02:29 I guess the city also didn't lien the property when --
15:02:34 I believe it's $30,000 in fines at this point.
15:02:39 Okay, I'm just about done in all honesty.
15:02:50 Bottom line is the only one that has a hardship is us
15:02:53 because the traffic this has promoted has not been
15:02:56 good.
15:02:56 It was stated before it was a body shop.
15:02:58 They made them remove all kinds of equipment that was
15:03:01 hidden behind his facade, not a carport.
15:03:03 All of his tenants park out in the street and in the
15:03:06 driveway, not in the carport.
15:03:08 And this is bringing traffic onto our driveway.
15:03:14 Quad has been involved because of the people he rents
15:03:15 to.

15:03:16 And something that wasn't a part, and you don't have
15:03:18 to let me say it, but the city has -- can't say it.
15:03:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can't say it, sir.
15:03:27 >>> And that's pretty much it.
15:03:29 And we have been down between code enforcement, and
15:03:32 these hearings now, six or seven times.
15:03:34 Just trying to keep our neighborhood clean.
15:03:39 Not whether it's for nice people or not.
15:03:41 If you were a nice guy then maybe the nice guy should
15:03:44 live in the neighborhood.
15:03:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
15:03:47 Next speaker.
15:03:49 >>> Good afternoon.
15:03:51 My name is Edmund son, Rio vista Avenue West.
15:04:01 That was my husband.
15:04:03 I have live it every day.
15:04:08 And every time I come in here, I'm fearful.
15:04:12 That was stated last time so we don't have to say that
15:04:14 that -- I got a restraining order against him.
15:04:18 Fortunately, she doesn't speak English, doesn't get
15:04:21 out, doesn't socialize in the neighborhood, and
15:04:24 probably by the time the traffic hits our

15:04:27 neighborhood, you know, I have had to get a
15:04:30 restraining order against him because I come to you
15:04:33 guys to report all the things.
15:04:37 We're good neighbors.
15:04:38 All we want is a clean neighborhood.
15:04:41 I want the children to grow up in a clean, drug-free
15:04:44 neighborhood.
15:04:44 That's all I'm asking.
15:04:46 I'm begging.
15:04:48 My last attempt is before you guys.
15:04:51 I'm pleading.
15:04:51 There is no hardship.
15:04:52 The only hardship is if you report this gentleman and
15:04:56 you get your life threatened, you get your house
15:04:59 vandalized, you get your car vandalized.
15:05:02 >> Was that on the record?
15:05:05 >>> Pretty much, yeah.
15:05:07 You know, again, Mr. Dingellfeld -- sorry, I'm a
15:05:14 little nervous and upset.
15:05:16 You know, when does it happen you guys get some teeth?
15:05:22 Code enforcement, 14 years, has been fighting, 14
15:05:25 years, complaints against Mr. Maccaron, 14 years.

15:05:31 When do you finally stand up for the little neighbor
15:05:35 who does complain?
15:05:36 Not the neighbor who is shut in their house and
15:05:40 doesn't get out.
15:05:40 I get out.
15:05:41 I see.
15:05:42 She stays inside.
15:05:44 I'm the eyes for the neighborhood.
15:05:46 I'm the concerned party for the neighborhood.
15:05:48 And the only hardship is I have to look and hope he's
15:05:58 not there. So thank you.
15:06:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public that's a
15:06:07 party of record, that spoke at the hearing?
15:06:09 Sir, you have five minutes rebuttal.
15:06:11 >>> Let me tell you this nice person, she has the
15:06:15 police at her house, she was screaming f'ing this and
15:06:19 f'ing that.
15:06:21 They'll tell you the police were here.
15:06:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That wasn't in the record either,
15:06:27 correct?
15:06:27 >>> Okay, let me finish here, sir.
15:06:29 It has nothing to do with them.

15:06:31 It has to do with property, okay.
15:06:32 But these people aren't what they put out to be, okay?
15:06:36 She just got out of house arrest for two years.
15:06:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is that in the record?
15:06:41 Mr. Maccaron, is that in the record below?
15:06:44 >>> Yes, it was.
15:06:45 >>> No, it was not.
15:06:46 >>> It should have been.
15:06:47 I thought I said it back in the VLB. I should have.
15:06:50 She was on house arrest.
15:06:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Don't have people talking.
15:06:56 This is not a free for all.
15:06:58 Our rules governing these chambers.
15:07:02 They will be adhered to.
15:07:03 Sir, you need to speak to the case.
15:07:05 Okay.
15:07:05 Speak to your case.
15:07:09 You're not helping yourself by personal attack s I
15:07:11 have six children.
15:07:12 I'm not in a hokey pokey business.
15:07:15 I have a small business that's been suffering lately.
15:07:17 Okay.

15:07:17 Obviously, my other neighbors care enough to come out
15:07:21 here and say something good in my behalf.
15:07:23 Okay.
15:07:26 Nothing here, I have bills.
15:07:29 I'm very busy trying to survive there.
15:07:32 There's no other business going on as they have tried
15:07:34 to pose, you know.
15:07:36 The deck is very clean.
15:07:38 I have a picture of the front of the property.
15:07:40 I put it up there.
15:07:41 You guys should have a copy.
15:07:42 Okay.
15:07:42 I keep my house nice.
15:07:48 I put dormers on the front of the house.
15:07:52 Here's what brought this down originally.
15:07:53 Hurricane Francis, the roof leaked.
15:07:55 Repairing the roof I thought some decorative dormers
15:07:58 would look nice and give me more space in the room so
15:08:01 I added three dormers on the front of the house.
15:08:04 Like I said, this was all after the fact.
15:08:08 When the city came out and said, listen, you have got
15:08:10 to get blueprints, permits it was blueprinted and

15:08:14 printed and it did get the certificate of completion.
15:08:17 But prior to doing it, my neighbors all were in
15:08:21 knowledge of it.
15:08:22 Also, the folks said they lived there 17 years.
15:08:26 I'm not trying to get personal again.
15:08:28 But I had had his permission to do so.
15:08:32 As a matter of fact --
15:08:37 But he helped me do part of this thing and he was the
15:08:46 resident at the property when this thing went on.
15:08:54 If there's other improvements if you don't like the
15:08:58 door, I'll do whatever it takes to improve.
15:09:01 I care about how it looks.
15:09:02 I care about these folks here.
15:09:03 I don't want them to have nothing ugly next door.
15:09:08 That's on a personal note.
15:09:09 I do care what -- how they feel.
15:09:12 And obviously they have taken their time to come here
15:09:15 and say so as well, you know.
15:09:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Are you finished?
15:09:23 >>> I believe so.
15:09:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You may be seated.
15:09:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sir?

15:09:32 Mr. Maccaron, somebody raised the question earlier
15:09:37 about hardship.
15:09:38 I guess it was the neighbors across the street.
15:09:41 I'm looking through the record of the I'm looking
15:09:44 through the record on page 25, line 4, and it speaks
15:09:51 to the hardship issue.
15:09:54 Did you speak to what your hardship might have been at
15:09:58 the variance board?
15:10:02 >>> I'm a little nervous, as you can tell I'm not used
15:10:04 to City Council meetings, and I don't recall what was
15:10:10 said there. There is a hardship.
15:10:11 The expense of this things to put it up, the expense
15:10:14 of removal and access to my property.
15:10:18 You know, it would be terrible there.
15:10:25 I made it functional and off the property line, I have
15:10:27 done all that as close as possible.
15:10:29 It's free self-standing.
15:10:31 If you have pictures there, you will see poles inside
15:10:33 closest to the wall of the building.
15:10:39 It's a floating building.
15:10:40 I built it to withstand whatever hurricanes, built
15:10:42 we've 2 by 12s and deck board.

15:10:45 It's very structural.
15:10:49 >> What are the vertical posts?
15:10:51 >>> 4 by 4s, four feet apart from each other, inside
15:10:55 and out.
15:10:56 There's 4 by 4s on the wall side of the house and on
15:10:59 the property side.
15:11:01 >> The foundation?
15:11:02 >>> It has footers poured two feet deep.
15:11:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
15:11:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other additional question by
15:11:21 council?
15:11:22 Okay.
15:11:22 Motion to close.
15:11:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
15:11:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Miller.
15:11:29 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
15:11:31 Opposes?
15:11:32 What's the pleasure of the board?
15:11:39 Pleasure of the board?
15:11:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I believe the motion was --
15:11:51 They denied his request for variance.
15:11:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm trying to see what their

15:11:56 discussion was.
15:11:56 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I hate to see things like this
15:11:59 happen.
15:12:01 People living next door to each other.
15:12:05 I'm sorry.
15:12:07 There's something perhaps that can happen to rectify
15:12:09 this.
15:12:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There's no question that the
15:12:17 petitioners applied before the Variance Review Board
15:12:21 certainly has the right to rent the house.
15:12:26 What they aren't allowed is to have more than one
15:12:28 residence in the house.
15:12:31 That goes around the whole city.
15:12:33 Evidently, from the evidence that I've heard, this
15:12:38 took some time to get to this point.
15:12:40 And again, if my mind serves me correctly, the
15:12:43 evidence that I heard, the permits were not pulled
15:12:49 till 2008, way after the structure was done.
15:12:53 Am I correct?
15:12:58 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Is it a known fact there were two
15:13:01 families there when this permit was pulled?
15:13:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I cannot answer that.

15:13:04 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Council, did that come up in the
15:13:07 hearing?
15:13:11 I'm asking the counselor.
15:13:15 >>ERNEST MUELLER: I believe the brother lived upstairs
15:13:17 and one of, I think, employees lived downstairs.
15:13:20 >> So it was a known fact that this was a two-family
15:13:23 when he applied for that permit?
15:13:25 >>> That I don't know.
15:13:26 And I don't know if that was known by the people that
15:13:28 issued the permit.
15:13:29 >> That didn't come up in the Variance Review Board?
15:13:31 >>> Not that I can recall.
15:13:33 I just remember at the Variance Review Board as I go
15:13:35 through the transcript, there was discussion that
15:13:37 there was somebody downstairs, and I think the brother
15:13:40 lived --
15:13:44 >> It was never declared that it was a two-family
15:13:47 residence?
15:13:48 >>> Declared at the VRB?
15:13:50 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes, right.
15:13:51 >>> I believe that the evidence was there, that there
15:13:53 were two tenants in the property.

15:14:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the issue for us, though, is
15:14:06 whether the Variance Review Board gave due process,
15:14:12 and that's sufficient enough evidence that we should
15:14:15 rule whether that's sufficient evidence to uphold the
15:14:17 decision or rule it is not sufficient evidence to
15:14:20 overturn the decision.
15:14:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Everybody is looking at Miranda
15:14:36 right now and I have to read you the Miranda rights.
15:14:38 >> I think it's your district.
15:14:40 >> They are all my district.
15:14:41 Whatever goes wrong, it's my district.
15:14:42 Whatever goes right is somebody else's district.
15:14:45 But I understand that.
15:14:51 Thank God I'm here for you this time.
15:14:53 You know, I would like to be as compassionate as I can
15:14:58 in all these issues, because no variances are the
15:15:01 same, everyone though they parallel somewhat.
15:15:03 But they are not really the same.
15:15:06 This one or the next one or the one next week or the
15:15:08 one two weeks from now.
15:15:10 And you know what I have been saying for months, the
15:15:13 best decision maker here is the courts.

15:15:16 Because they are better equipped to handle appeals
15:15:20 than we are.
15:15:21 When you have a system in the court and you want to
15:15:23 appeal, you appeal to a different venue in the court.
15:15:26 And that might be coming up in the near future.
15:15:30 But in this case, I understand what the gentleman
15:15:34 said, the applicant, and I also understand that for a
15:15:39 number of years, this wasn't just something two or
15:15:43 three months, and I forgot to do something.
15:15:45 And if there was something within a year, I would say
15:15:48 fine, you know.
15:15:49 But it's not.
15:15:50 It's been an ongoing thing for many, many years.
15:15:53 And in this case, I'm going to have to -- my feeling
15:15:56 is that the Variance Review Board did the right thing.
15:16:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So your motion is to uphold the
15:16:06 VRB?
15:16:08 >> Yes.
15:16:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll second the motion.
15:16:10 I feel bad for both sides and I feel bad whenever we
15:16:13 hear about neighbors bickering with each other because
15:16:15 that can't ab lot of fun.

15:16:17 But the bottom line is, Mr. Maccaron, that in 2002,
15:16:22 you put a lot of money and effort into building this
15:16:25 thing, and it's really unfortunate that you didn't
15:16:27 take one step further and go to the -- and come to the
15:16:31 city and ask for a variance at that time and get the
15:16:33 approval.
15:16:34 Because obviously you had neighbors at that time who
15:16:37 you said didn't mind.
15:16:39 But that's changed.
15:16:40 And now you have neighbors who do mind, and they have
15:16:43 to look at it every day, and it's not built in the
15:16:50 appropriate place.
15:16:52 More importantly, as Mr. Miranda said, the variance
15:16:57 board rejected your petition 7-0, and they
15:17:00 specifically asked you about hardship criteria, and
15:17:05 the motion specifically said that they didn't see
15:17:07 where there was any hardship proven, and that's why
15:17:10 you lost 7-0.
15:17:12 So I feel very bad.
15:17:14 It does look like you built it very well.
15:17:16 And you have got a lot of lumber and effort into it.
15:17:19 But I think it might have to come down.

15:17:30 Motion to approve the VRB.
15:17:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: To uphold the VRB.
15:17:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The VRB decision.
15:17:37 Which is a rejection of his original petition.
15:17:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
15:17:41 Motion made by councilman Miranda, seconded by
15:17:44 councilman Dingfelder to uphold the decision of the
15:17:46 VRB.
15:17:47 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
15:17:49 Opposes?
15:17:54 Thank you.
15:17:55 Item 119.
15:18:03 Item 119.
15:18:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open.
15:18:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: They are all open.
15:18:24 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Assistant city attorney.
15:18:27 Now you have before you the appeal of the Variance
15:18:28 Review Board's denial in case number VRB 08 80.
15:18:34 The property in this appeal is located at 3213 Pine
15:18:38 Street, and the petitioner and property owner is
15:18:41 Michelle Gonzalez.
15:18:43 The variance request was to reduce the front yard

15:18:46 setback to 20 -- from 20 feet to 12 feet with the
15:18:50 allowed encroachment of eaves and gutters to construct
15:18:53 residential addition.
15:18:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Excuse me.
15:18:58 If you all make sure you take any further discussion
15:19:01 outside.
15:19:02 Council is still in session.
15:19:16 You may continue.
15:19:17 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Variance Review Board voted to deny
15:19:20 the application by a vote of 7 to 0 on the basis that
15:19:24 the hardship criteria set forth in Tampa city code
15:19:27 section 17.5-74 had not been satisfied.
15:19:31 And additional basis for the denial was granting the
15:19:35 variance would interfere with the rights of the
15:19:37 neighbors, because there is no similar front yard
15:19:39 setbacks on the street.
15:19:42 There can be no new evidence presented to you today
15:19:44 and your actions will be solely based upon the record
15:19:46 created during the Variance Review Board hearing, and
15:19:49 at this time I'll turn the podium over to Mr.
15:19:52 Michelini presenting on behalf of the petitioner.
15:20:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Michelini.

15:20:02 All right.
15:20:02 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I'd like to first -- to first of
15:20:08 all --
15:20:11 I'd like to present your attention to the record
15:20:13 starting on page 4 where the petitioner is talking
15:20:16 about the size of the lot.
15:20:18 And this particular property has two astronauts
15:20:26 fronts, a street in the back and a street in the back
15:20:28 and in that case the lot is only 80 feet deep which if
15:20:31 you apply the standard setbacks required by the Tampa
15:20:34 city code you only have 30 feet left to build a house
15:20:36 on.
15:20:37 And that way they were establishing the hardship for
15:20:40 them being able to build on this lot and effectively
15:20:44 being able to ask for this variance and subsequently
15:20:49 add onto the existing home.
15:20:53 Further on page 4, starting on line 10, they are
15:20:56 talking about the access for this is in the rear.
15:20:58 Well, there is no true rear, so they defined the rear
15:21:01 as on Pine Street, which means the garage came in from
15:21:05 the other right-of-way, which was on the other side.
15:21:10 One of the other issues they talked about in their

15:21:14 denial was the fact that there were no other houses in
15:21:17 the area that had similar setbacks, and the petitioner
15:21:20 further states on line 20 on page 4 that there's a
15:21:25 house down on the corner which is only 7 feet from the
15:21:28 property line.
15:21:30 Going on to page 5, the houses are aligned in a
15:21:36 similar manner.
15:21:39 Further, on page 5, the city staff gets up and start
15:21:43 talking about an off-site tree, and elm tree, that
15:21:48 somehow is being encroached upon by a storage shed.
15:21:51 This does not meet the criteria for the petition.
15:21:54 It had nothing to do with the variance that was before
15:21:56 that board, and they weighed evidence essentially
15:22:03 something upon the tree being impacted and that's
15:22:05 referred to in the minutes of the VRB denial.
15:22:08 It's also reflected more in the discussion.
15:22:12 It goes on for several lines, and it talks about
15:22:15 utilizing the storage building and the impact on the
15:22:18 tree.
15:22:19 And then they go on, and the VRB asks, this is on page
15:22:23 6, show me that picture again.
15:22:26 They are talking about the picture of the tree.

15:22:28 And then they ask them, is this the area that's being
15:22:31 impacted by the variance?
15:22:32 And then the city staff says, no, no, no, it's not.
15:22:36 It didn't matter.
15:22:37 They had already done their damage in reference to the
15:22:41 tree, and the board weighing that as evidence in their
15:22:45 denial.
15:22:45 Starting on page 7, they say -- and this is again a
15:22:50 discussion between the VRB member and city staff,
15:22:53 where they are talking about on line 5 and 6, they are
15:22:56 talking about, what is all this construction stuff in
15:23:00 the rear?
15:23:00 And their additional questions, what is it?
15:23:03 An old metal shed.
15:23:05 And there are other discussions about that.
15:23:07 Again, not germane to the petition that was before the
15:23:10 VRB.
15:23:12 And then they were asking, are there other homes that
15:23:15 are in the neighborhood as close as 12 feet?
15:23:18 And then again the petitioner that presented the case
15:23:21 says, yes, right here on the corner.
15:23:24 If you go on to page 8, at the bottom, the hearing is

15:23:29 now closed, and one of the members of the VRB is
15:23:35 saying, I can't support this.
15:23:36 At some point you can only put so much on a lot.
15:23:39 Now, the petitioner had already established the fact
15:23:41 that the lot was only 80 feet wide, or 80 feet deep,
15:23:45 and 73 feet in width which they are now operating
15:23:49 under severe hardship in terms of the constraints of
15:23:51 the lot size itself.
15:23:54 So they have already established that point.
15:23:56 And when they go onto this, it says, it comes on to
15:24:00 inserting line 5 on page 9.
15:24:02 It says, I think the fact that this is going to move 8
15:24:06 feet closer is going to impinge upon the neighbors.
15:24:08 Well, there is nothing submitted in the evidence that
15:24:11 indicated there were neighbors that were in opposition
15:24:14 to this.
15:24:15 No one said they had any concern about this.
15:24:17 And a VRB member operating in a quasi-judicial or in
15:24:21 their board function cannot assume that they believe
15:24:25 that somehow a neighbor is being impacted when no
15:24:28 evidence has been submitted in the record either by
15:24:30 letter or personal testimony to indicate that someone

15:24:34 somehow has been affected.
15:24:35 Exactly to the contrary, no one showed up in
15:24:38 opposition to this.
15:24:40 Going on to line 10, they are talking about, okay,
15:24:45 there is a hardship.
15:24:47 Sorry?
15:24:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What page?
15:24:50 >>> Page 9, line 10.
15:24:52 There is a hardship and they ran out of room.
15:24:55 Now, they recognize that the lot is small.
15:24:58 They simply had a small lot.
15:25:04 So going on to page 10, they are talking about the
15:25:08 standard review for hardship criteria has not been
15:25:10 met, and it would interfere with the rights of others.
15:25:15 No one else ever demonstrated in any shape, form or
15:25:18 fashion that there was interference of rights with
15:25:21 anyone else.
15:25:22 And if you look at -- and I don't know, this is the
15:25:26 summary letter.
15:25:29 They went from the city staff back to the petitioner,
15:25:32 and it said, Mr. Casteel presented the case, he
15:25:37 explained the previous denial.

15:25:41 Ms. Bryson indicated the elm tree was being damaged by
15:25:45 a storage building.
15:25:46 That was not the issue before the board.
15:25:48 It was not in an area impacted by the request for the
15:25:50 variance.
15:25:52 And then again they ask, were there other homes close
15:25:55 to front yard?
15:25:56 And the answer was yes.
15:25:57 That was answered in the testimony at the VRB.
15:26:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Where is that?
15:26:06 >>> Holding my time here, that occurred on page 4 at
15:26:15 the bottom, starting on line 19 going on to line 20.
15:26:20 And then it carries on into page 5 on the alignment at
15:26:25 the top of the page, line 1.
15:26:33 >> That was testifying?
15:26:34 >>> That was the petitioner, the presenter.
15:26:37 Was asked whether there were other houses similarly
15:26:40 situated of the
15:26:41 And again on page 7, starting on line 19 and 20, and
15:26:47 then again somebody from the VRB talks about the house
15:26:54 being close.
15:26:56 That's on page 9.

15:27:01 Again, in terms of the criteria that has to be met,
15:27:06 the people are getting very confused about the
15:27:09 hardship criteria, quote-unquote.
15:27:11 What it says is that you shall consider -- what it
15:27:14 says is you shall consider the criteria.
15:27:17 And hardship is only one of five, talks about the
15:27:20 hardship for difficulties which are unique, and that
15:27:23 is a unique condition in terms of the size of that lot
15:27:26 and the shape and configuration of that home.
15:27:28 They have no other alternative.
15:27:30 The alleged hardship was difficulties with failure to
15:27:33 grant would basically make the lot unusable.
15:27:39 That's a very difficult standard to meet.
15:27:41 And I know the city has recognized that.
15:27:44 The property can be utilized.
15:27:46 However, it has severe constraints based upon Tampa
15:27:49 city code and the setbacks that are applied to those
15:27:52 lots.
15:27:53 The third part is if the variance is granted, it would
15:27:56 not substantially interfere with the health, safety
15:27:59 and welfare of others.
15:28:00 It would not.

15:28:01 City made no case about that but they found that it
15:28:04 was somehow going to interfere with someone else and
15:28:08 whether it was in harmony with this chapter and code.
15:28:10 I don't contend in any way that the City of Tampa code
15:28:12 is basically built and designed around minimum lot
15:28:15 sizes of 50 by 100, not 8 oh 0 by 73.
15:28:20 And in that case, is a that is a platted lot, a lot of
15:28:25 record essentially being applied with the setbacks
15:28:27 being applied to a substandard lot.
15:28:29 Allowing the variance --
15:28:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I ask a question?
15:28:37 >>> Yes, sir.
15:28:37 >> I have been trying to read this transcript pretty
15:28:40 quickly.
15:28:42 It's a lot of transcript.
15:28:45 The pictures seem to indicate there's some active
15:28:50 construction going on?
15:28:51 >>> In the back.
15:28:52 That's correct.
15:28:53 On the rear of the building.
15:28:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm looking at a photo that looks
15:28:59 like it shows toward the street.

15:29:01 >>> That's what I was telling you.
15:29:03 There are two streets.
15:29:04 There's one in the front of the house and there's one
15:29:05 in the back of the house.
15:29:06 >> All right, all right.
15:29:07 So there's no construction currently going on in the
15:29:10 front in the encroachment area?
15:29:12 >>> That's correct.
15:29:12 >> This construction that we are looking at --
15:29:17 >>> That's at the rear.
15:29:18 >> Okay, that's the rear.
15:29:19 So it's not like as we just heard a minute ago where
15:29:24 they already did it and now they are looking for --
15:29:26 >>> No, sir, no, sir, nothing has been built.
15:29:28 No, they are respectfully requesting relief due to the
15:29:32 lot size.
15:29:32 >> The total lot size is actually more than 5,000
15:29:36 square feet.
15:29:39 Which is as big as a 50 by 100.
15:29:42 It's just more square than rectangular.
15:29:44 >>> Dimensionally it's challenged.
15:29:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When I served on the variance board

15:29:57 and we had these kind of questions, what we would
15:29:59 often do is we would say, we need a picture, not just
15:30:03 some random petitioner testimony.
15:30:05 We need a picture that shows the lineup of the other
15:30:08 houses on the street.
15:30:10 You know, both on the side you're on, and across the
15:30:13 street.
15:30:14 I don't see that in the record.
15:30:17 And there was brief testimony from the petitioner, but
15:30:21 in my opinion, if I was on the VRB, still, it wouldn't
15:30:25 be good enough.
15:30:26 You know, I would want to be see pictures to show what
15:30:29 it looks like up and down the street.
15:30:30 You can't show it to us today because it's not in the
15:30:33 record.
15:30:34 So what I'm going to suggest is that we remand this
15:30:37 back to the VRB so that they can specifically look at
15:30:41 that issue.
15:30:42 That to me is one of the key issues on this type of
15:30:45 encroachment thing.
15:30:46 If you have got a nice straight line up and down the
15:30:49 street of front yard setbacks and all of a sudden some

15:30:53 random neighbor wants to pop something out in front,
15:30:57 then maybe that's something, one of the considerations
15:30:59 that the variance board should look at and consider.
15:31:03 If it's one of those streets, one of those old timey
15:31:07 streets, that jog in and out, in and out and that sort
15:31:10 of thing, then you have got some precedent there as to
15:31:14 get some forgiveness.
15:31:16 And I would also agree with you that the lot size, and
15:31:19 the lot dimensions, you know, should be something that
15:31:22 I think the variance board should take a little bit
15:31:24 closer look at, and at least discuss.
15:31:28 So, you know, unless there's other discussions or -- I
15:31:35 don't think we asked if there were other people that
15:31:37 wanted to speak to this.
15:31:38 So I'll hold off on my motion bus that's where I'm
15:31:42 going to head on this.
15:31:43 >>> The owner is here, the property owners are here,
15:31:45 and the participants that were in that petition.
15:31:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There's nobody else?
15:31:50 >>> There was no one else.
15:31:52 The difficulty that we are faced with, as you can see
15:31:54 from the record it's pretty sparse.

15:31:57 But I think that there are some significant challenges
15:32:00 in there, when the board members start taking leaps of
15:32:04 logic, and assuming that people have concerns, and
15:32:07 that they are interfered with or damaged in some way.
15:32:09 >> Let me ask one other question to legal real quick.
15:32:12 Ernie, it did seem to me that tree issue was a bit
15:32:16 tangential, and I would like to get your opinion on
15:32:19 that.
15:32:23 So that way when F we do remand back to VRB you can
15:32:27 give them instructions whether or not they are dealing
15:32:29 with that tree issue during this discussion and why
15:32:31 that would be relevant to the five factors.
15:32:33 >> Okay.
15:32:34 I don't believe they did discuss it in their
15:32:36 deliberations the tree issue at all.
15:32:40 But they are saying if you do remand this back and
15:32:42 keep the tree issue out of it, Dominican Republic
15:32:44 that.
15:32:45 >> I don't even know why Mary was even speaking to it
15:32:47 during that hearing.
15:32:48 >>> I'm not sure either.
15:32:53 In an interest to clarify for you, I think this hasn't

15:33:03 been transmitted.
15:33:04 Those were just the minutes taken at that time.
15:33:06 And I think that was referred to by Mr. Michelini.
15:33:13 >> That's part of our record.
15:33:14 >>> I thought he said it had been transmitted.
15:33:18 That was just the minutes.
15:33:20 >>STEVE MICHELINI: My statement was it was part of the
15:33:22 offerings record.
15:33:27 You can only assume that somebody had thought that was
15:33:31 some way influenced or impacted the decision that was
15:33:34 made.
15:33:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to say that not all streets
15:33:39 in West Tampa are rectangular perfect.
15:33:45 In other words, they maybe be 120 feet from street to
15:33:48 street.
15:33:50 And some streets are 200 feet from street to street.
15:33:57 >> You didn't lay them out, did you?
15:33:58 >> No, my granddaddy did but he only had one eye.
15:34:03 He was a surveyor who did surveys everywhere.
15:34:09 You were there.
15:34:10 You know all the history.
15:34:13 [ Laughter ]

15:34:13 What I'm saying is, I don't think it was presented in
15:34:15 that form.
15:34:16 I don't know how wide it is from this street to the
15:34:19 next street.
15:34:21 And West Tampa is a great place to live.
15:34:25 It's unique, like I said before, a veg vegetable soup
15:34:29 of society.
15:34:29 All of us live together and blend together and have a
15:34:33 nice time living there. And these are the things that
15:34:35 we want ton see done and done well.
15:34:39 I'm not going to object to Mr. Dingfelder's suggestion
15:34:44 but I'm sure this will be back on appeal again.
15:34:47 But maybe next time around there's a new hearing, I
15:34:52 assume if you go back, be remanded back to the new
15:34:55 hearing, de novo hearing, so the record maybe should
15:34:59 be a little more intense of the length of the street,
15:35:02 the width of the street.
15:35:07 >>> The hearing will be whatever you direct it to be.
15:35:10 So if you are going to remand it back for limited
15:35:13 purpose or if you want -- depends how you want to send
15:35:17 it back.
15:35:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I mean, I think it should be back,

15:35:21 reviewed.
15:35:22 Every hearing is different.
15:35:25 And every part of the city is different.
15:35:27 Every street is different in the City of Tampa.
15:35:30 That's what makes it so unique.
15:35:37 And I've read what Mr. Dingfelder said.
15:35:39 I don't have it with me.
15:35:40 But I did read it.
15:35:42 And it's something that's not uncommon where this is
15:35:47 being done at.
15:35:49 And I know that sometimes, some of those individuals
15:35:51 say, well, if it's common there, makes no difference
15:35:54 whether it's right or wrong.
15:35:55 Let me tell you something.
15:35:56 If it's common there today, it's right.
15:35:59 And you can name you a lot of places in West Tampa
15:36:03 where the same individual who laid the street did
15:36:08 something else, because nothing really matches.
15:36:11 You have flat roofs.
15:36:12 Angle roofs.
15:36:13 Different pitches of roof.
15:36:15 Different colors.

15:36:16 Different this.
15:36:17 Different the other.
15:36:18 And everybody lives happily.
15:36:20 I can name you five -- at least five, in my own little
15:36:25 neighborhood where I live, within three block area,
15:36:28 where they used to have a garage in the back, now it's
15:36:32 an apartment.
15:36:36 I'm a legislator, not a policeman don't turn them in
15:36:41 because that's not my job.
15:36:42 But in the last three or four years I have seen houses
15:36:45 all of a sudden they add on.
15:36:47 They must do it at real dark at night, because the
15:36:51 next day they are painted the same color as the house.
15:36:54 And that's not me speaking out of turn.
15:36:59 I can tell you for sure that's what's going on.
15:37:01 And I understand the economic situation that we are in
15:37:05 today.
15:37:06 And I can tell you right now, the parking situation in
15:37:10 West Tampa is getting terrible.
15:37:11 And haven't said much because some people have lost
15:37:16 their houses and living with someone else and I don't
15:37:18 have the heart to do that.

15:37:22 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Was there any opposition to this?
15:37:27 >> No.
15:37:28 >>> The neighbors were contacted and supportive.
15:37:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: In support of it?
15:37:35 >>STEVE MICHELINI: They didn't submit that into the
15:37:37 record.
15:37:39 There were some issues.
15:37:41 Michelle was there that evening and had planned to
15:37:43 stay in the evening, went on very long.
15:37:46 I can let her explain.
15:37:47 But she became ill and had to leave and took some of
15:37:50 the stuff with her.
15:37:53 I'll let her explain.
15:37:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Put your name on the record.
15:37:59 >>> Michelle Gonzalez, the owner, 3213 west Pine
15:38:04 Street, along with my grandmother.
15:38:06 And on the contrary, yes, my neighbors are supportive,
15:38:10 and they signed a petition.
15:38:12 And when I left, I actually left with it, because I
15:38:15 was sick.
15:38:17 That evening.
15:38:18 So I do have that.

15:38:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If she didn't testify she probably
15:38:24 shouldn't be talking.
15:38:24 >>STEVE MICHELINI: She's the petitioner.
15:38:27 She's just clarifying the record.
15:38:32 She was the petitioner originally.
15:38:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the question, though, is there
15:38:38 was no opposition at that hearing, right?
15:38:41 >>STEVE MICHELINI: No, sir.
15:38:42 I think our main concern is in a remand --
15:38:45 Okay.
15:38:46 I'm trying to help you here.
15:38:47 >>> Yes, sir.
15:38:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There was no opposition at the
15:38:49 hearing.
15:38:50 Now, I will tell you, Mr. Miranda, I agree with you
15:38:55 100%.
15:38:56 On my street, my house sits way back.
15:38:58 I got neighbors that sit way up.
15:39:00 So almost anywhere you go --
15:39:04 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: They want to watch you from the
15:39:06 front, that's why.
15:39:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So I don't have a problem with

15:39:13 overturning this issue.
15:39:16 I really don't, if that is appropriate with council.
15:39:21 I mean, just to get it off the dime and get it moving.
15:39:24 Because basically what you have is based on the
15:39:29 opinion.
15:39:30 The motion should be based upon the opinion they did
15:39:32 not get enough evidence to sustain the decision that
15:39:35 they made.
15:39:36 Because you are asking for the pictures and asking for
15:39:39 this.
15:39:40 So basically, what I will do is release the gavel, and
15:39:44 I will make a motion that we overturn the variance
15:39:49 review because they did not give enough evidence to
15:39:52 sustain their decision that was made.
15:39:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Do I have a second?
15:39:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
15:39:59 >>CHAIRMAN: Motion and second.
15:40:00 Question on the motion?
15:40:01 Mr. Dingfelder?
15:40:03 >> Do we close the hearing first?
15:40:05 >>GWEN MILLER: No.
15:40:05 Need to close first.

15:40:06 Somebody close.
15:40:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Move to close the hearing.
15:40:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
15:40:11 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion to overturn the
15:40:13 Variance Review Board.
15:40:15 Now question on the motion.
15:40:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I mean, it's a close call.
15:40:22 My problem is I still don't know Wan that street looks
15:40:24 like.
15:40:25 Okay.
15:40:25 I mean, there are streets where everybody, for
15:40:30 whatever reason over the years, some of them are in
15:40:33 Beach Park, because they are very picky on this thing,
15:40:37 where it's just straight up and down, and nobody
15:40:39 extends into the setback zone.
15:40:46 >> Except for this.
15:40:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The problem is there's no firm
15:40:52 evidence about that.
15:40:53 And that's where I think it's appropriate legally to
15:40:57 remand it back so there can be evidence on the record.
15:41:01 If Mr. Michelini feels very comfortable, you know,
15:41:04 that he will be able to show that type of evidence,

15:41:09 then he shouldn't have concern about going back to the
15:41:11 VRB.
15:41:12 Yes, it's a little longer in the process.
15:41:14 But I think it's inappropriate for us to come to this
15:41:17 factual conclusion because we don't have the evidence.
15:41:21 >>CHAIRMAN: Mr. Miranda?
15:41:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm trying to put in my mind -- my
15:41:25 computer is off right now, but 3200 block is about a
15:41:29 block east of Glen on pine?
15:41:38 >> The hearing is closed.
15:41:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm asking her.
15:41:43 That's the question.
15:41:44 Let me be the councilman, you be the lawyer, all
15:41:46 right?
15:41:46 And we'll be happy.
15:41:48 Is that where it's at?
15:41:50 Okay.
15:41:50 Thank you.
15:41:51 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
15:41:52 Other questions?
15:41:53 We have a motion to overturn.
15:41:55 All in favor say Aye.

15:41:56 Opposed, Nay.
15:41:57 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder voting no.
15:42:00 >>> Thank you very much, council, and good afternoon.
15:42:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
15:42:06 I believe that completes our agenda, the new business,
15:42:10 right?
15:42:10 Let me make sure we don't have any other items.
15:42:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe there was the calendar
15:42:14 issue under unfinished business.
15:42:17 >>GWEN MILLER: We have two.
15:42:18 Which ones?
15:42:20 We have agreement on --
15:42:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just to go back to the number on the
15:42:26 agenda.
15:42:31 That was number 107.
15:42:37 Light blue and dark blue.
15:42:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I suggest you take that and bring it
15:42:41 back at our next meeting because I don't think we had
15:42:44 a chance to review it.
15:42:47 >> One day is 24 hours.
15:42:51 >> I disagreed when I read it.
15:42:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I thought we were talking about that

15:42:56 fifth Thursday was the issue.
15:42:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: One of the concerns is there's a
15:43:02 discussion about coordinating with Land Development
15:43:03 Coordination, the number of meetings they need to have
15:43:07 during the week and also the clerk's schedule.
15:43:10 Council, I have had a chance to review this.
15:43:12 I think I can have Ms. Marshall speak a little more
15:43:18 and get a tentative in advance of the next meeting and
15:43:22 if anybody has any questions for me or the clerk or
15:43:25 land development they can address those in advance and
15:43:27 it will be relatively simple.
15:43:28 I can meet with each of you to see if you have any
15:43:31 concerns.
15:43:31 So by the next meeting, it could be passed very
15:43:33 simply.
15:43:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:43:35 That would be fine.
15:43:35 So then we don't need a motion then, do we?
15:43:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, to put it on the agenda.
15:43:40 >> So moved.
15:43:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Secondment.
15:43:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded. Seconded by

15:43:46 councilman Miranda.
15:43:47 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
15:43:49 Opposed the same sign.
15:43:51 Okay.
15:43:52 New business.
15:43:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman?
15:43:57 I want to talk about the river flow.
15:44:00 We are running very low on water.
15:44:01 And I'm asking everyone to conserve as much as
15:44:04 possible.
15:44:07 We are having the lowest flow we have had in October
15:44:09 in the river in many, many a year.
15:44:12 And the river is flowing at about 42.5 million
15:44:17 gallons.
15:44:17 And we are using about 87 million gallons.
15:44:21 So somehow you don't make up the deficit by increased
15:44:24 demand.
15:44:25 You have to have a decrease.
15:44:28 In that supply.
15:44:29 And I'm asking the citizens to please be cognizant of
15:44:34 that.
15:44:34 And if I may ask one more thing, Mr. Chairman.

15:44:38 Under section 22-119, I would like to see if council
15:44:43 will support me in bringing this back for council.
15:44:46 This was passed, and it's with does stops and the new
15:44:52 Hartline plan.
15:44:53 I don't think that any individual such as big
15:44:56 brothers, big sisters, the youth foundation, Tampa
15:45:00 Junior League ever women, the chambers, Hope, and all
15:45:06 those have any decrease in the benches that they have
15:45:09 throughout the city.
15:45:10 And I'm asking this to be brought back on the agenda
15:45:12 for further discussion, if we can, under the new plan
15:45:14 that we just passed.
15:45:21 I'd like to have a workshop on this to bring it back.
15:45:23 You never thought I'd say the word "workshop," huh?
15:45:29 I'll tell you.
15:45:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: January or February?
15:45:33 >>GWEN MILLER: February.
15:45:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: February?
15:45:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 11:00?
15:45:40 >> Motion and second, moved by Mr. Miranda, seconded
15:45:43 by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
15:45:44 All in favor?

15:45:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question.
15:45:51 You being Hart representative, our representative on
15:45:54 Hart, this issue, we need to invite Hart and make sure
15:45:56 they are part of this discussion.
15:45:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's fine.
15:45:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think it's the Jaycees that have
15:46:05 the contract.
15:46:07 >>> And a bunch of others.
15:46:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: (off microphone) how binges are
15:46:15 placed properly.
15:46:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's fine.
15:46:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
15:46:20 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
15:46:23 Opposed?
15:46:24 So moved.
15:46:25 Councilman Dingfelder.
15:46:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Two things.
15:46:29 Ms. Mulhern's office asked me to bring this issue up.
15:46:32 Apparently there was a motion made awhile back, at the
15:46:35 last meeting, for the administration to provide maps
15:46:40 and lists that show city undeveloped lots and provide
15:46:43 that to council by October 15th according to her

15:46:46 office, nobody has received that yet.
15:46:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Next Thursday we are having a
15:46:53 workshop on community gardens and this is supposed to
15:46:55 be identifying the potential sites.
15:46:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I think she wanted it prior to
15:47:00 that special discussion meeting.
15:47:02 So let's urge administration to get that list to you,
15:47:04 council, prior to that special discussion meeting.
15:47:07 And I don't think it needs a motion.
15:47:10 Because there's already a motion pending.
15:47:12 The second issue is on the TECO franchise agreement,
15:47:16 we are work shopping that next week and I will not be
15:47:18 present.
15:47:22 I had a meeting with TECO's representatives, had a
15:47:26 meeting with the city attorneys who are working on
15:47:28 this, but in looking through this document, and Chip's
15:47:32 description, I don't see where there's a discussion
15:47:35 about conservation.
15:47:37 Obviously I don't want to get into it today.
15:47:39 But in my absence, I would urge council to address
15:47:45 this, not only with our attorneys, but also with TECO,
15:47:49 to see what if anything we can do to make sure that

15:47:52 conservation is a strong component of this, because,
15:47:57 you know, as we go through the discussions, you know,
15:48:01 we don't have a lot of flexibility to, you know, to
15:48:04 change a coal fire plant to a solar plant or whatever.
15:48:09 But one thing we can do as a community to deal with
15:48:13 this energy crisis is conservation.
15:48:16 And I think that since this is a 25-year agreement,
15:48:19 that we are being -- that is being proposed to us, I
15:48:22 think it should be expressly stated as one of the
15:48:25 sections about what they are going to do about
15:48:27 conservation, encouraging conservation, and incentives
15:48:32 for conservation, and all that type of thing,
15:48:35 specifically in this 25-year agreement.
15:48:38 So if you all don't deal with it next week, then we'll
15:48:43 deal with it later.
15:48:44 That's all, thank you.
15:48:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question.
15:48:50 And in the clerk's packet that they gave to us there's
15:48:53 a sheet on the Barrio Latino, and it says there are
15:48:57 three terms that expire at the end of September that
15:48:59 are supposed to be appointed by City Council.
15:49:02 An architect -- excuse me, member of the Ybor city

15:49:06 Chamber of Commerce, an attorney, and a resident of
15:49:08 the Ybor City historic district.
15:49:10 And I just wondered if the city clerk could tell us if
15:49:16 indeed these three vacancies are there, if we as
15:49:20 council need to fill them, and if indeed that's the
15:49:23 truth I would like to get this on our agenda to get
15:49:26 resum├ęs in and set up an opportunity to select people
15:49:29 so that the barrio doesn't have a lack of a quorum.
15:49:36 On page 25 of our final regular -- I was wondering if
15:49:42 the city clerk -- it said that these terms expired on
15:49:45 September 20th, 2008.
15:49:48 Three numbers which would mean they are really
15:49:51 scratching for a quorum.
15:50:00 These are three that he would as City Council appoint.
15:50:05 My motion would be as quickly as possible if indeed
15:50:08 this has been advertised, and this is the end date
15:50:12 closes that we vote, that the area doesn't experience
15:50:16 a lack of a quorum, and that we tell people who might
15:50:20 be interested.
15:50:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would assume that those persons who
15:50:23 expire will continue until we fill those terms and
15:50:25 make a new appointment.

15:50:26 That's generally how it's done.
15:50:28 Generally what happens is the terms expire, they
15:50:32 continue till the new point.
15:50:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
15:50:35 I just didn't want there to be a problem.
15:50:37 I wanted to get the word out.
15:50:40 Thank you.
15:50:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano?
15:50:44 Okay, council, the issue that I have is the ballot
15:50:50 language or the discussion of the council attorney,
15:50:54 which is on the ballot.
15:50:55 I have seen it on the absentee ballot, and that is a
15:50:59 long ballot.
15:51:00 It is a very, very long ballot, two pages on both
15:51:03 sides.
15:51:05 The first page has about 15 presidential candidates.
15:51:16 That's true.
15:51:16 But the issue, the amendment, it's the last amendment
15:51:20 on the flip side.
15:51:23 Do you know what amendment that is?
15:51:33 It is at the at the very last end of the
15:51:38 Anyway, the thing is, generally if you want something,

15:51:51 which we put on the ballot to get approved by the
15:51:53 voters, generally you want to educate the community
15:51:57 about that, and there has not been any education
15:52:00 that's gone forward that I know of.
15:52:03 Relative to that.
15:52:04 I would suggest that we probably start contacting
15:52:08 T.H.A.N. and those groups who initially supported
15:52:13 that, if we can get them to pass it onto the different
15:52:16 civic association and put it in the newsletter or
15:52:19 whatever, because we do want to encourage the passage
15:52:21 of that amendment so people will know because this is
15:52:30 being televised that they would know to vote yes on
15:52:33 that, otherwise the City Council needs to hire the
15:52:41 tern for City Council, instead of the city attorney
15:52:43 hiring that council person.
15:52:46 So the citizens would know to vote yes on that
15:52:49 particular amendment that gives us the authority to
15:52:51 hire our own attorney.
15:52:53 So I really want to bring that up so we can begin to
15:52:57 talk to people about that, educate people about that,
15:52:59 pass that word out, get it out, I encourage each of
15:53:05 you to try to get the neighborhood associations, get

15:53:10 to T.H.A.N.
15:53:12 I don't know, is it permissible?
15:53:18 Is it permissible for us to send out information to
15:53:22 T.H.A.N. requesting that they educate the different
15:53:25 neighborhood associations in support of this
15:53:27 amendment?
15:53:29 Is that permissible?
15:53:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, in all candor, I prefer that
15:53:33 that would be the more appropriate question under the
15:53:36 circumstances for me to defer to Mr. Fletcher on that.
15:53:42 I certainly understand council's position.
15:53:44 It would be, I believe, more appropriate for Mr.
15:53:46 Fletcher to be able to address that.
15:53:48 I don't think he's here but if the chair would like to
15:53:51 do that.
15:53:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What I would suggest, council, at this
15:53:55 point, if it is permissible and legal that we send out
15:54:00 a letter to T.H.A.N., encourage them to support the
15:54:03 document, encourage the neighborhood association, I
15:54:06 want to go ahead and do that, and draft a letter to
15:54:08 them, if it's legal that we can do that and I will
15:54:14 confer with Mr. Fletcher, because early voting starts

15:54:16 Monday.
15:54:19 And absentee is already going in.
15:54:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I agree with you
15:54:26 wholeheartedly.
15:54:27 I had somebody call me the other day and they said,
15:54:30 are you creating a new position?
15:54:31 Because they had read the sample ballot language which
15:54:36 I haven't looked at yet.
15:54:37 But they got confused.
15:54:39 And so I think in our letter and any other
15:54:43 communication we are everything with the public, make
15:54:45 sure that everybody is clear, we are not creating a
15:54:47 new position during these difficult budget times. We
15:54:50 have an existing position in Mr. Shelby.
15:54:53 All we are doing is clarifying the chain of command,
15:54:56 who he answers to.
15:54:57 Right now, under the charter, ambiguous possibly that
15:55:02 he answer to the city attorney or to the city
15:55:05 administration.
15:55:05 We want to make sure that this one sole position, the
15:55:10 City Council attorney answers to City Council.
15:55:12 And it's already budgeted.
15:55:16 Not a budget item whatsoever.
15:55:17 It just a sort of procedural clarification.
15:55:22 So let's stress that as we go out into the community
15:55:25 as well.
15:55:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Clarifying the chain of command.
15:55:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second on the motion?
15:55:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
15:55:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, you made the motion.
15:55:35 Seconded by councilman Dingfelder that we draft the
15:55:38 letter to T.H.A.N. and the neighborhood association,
15:55:39 asking them to -- encouraging them to endorse and
15:55:44 supports this, and get be the word out to advocate
15:55:49 that the neighborhood civic associations relative to
15:55:52 the languages on the ballot, clarifying the chain of
15:55:55 command for the City Council's attorney.
15:55:57 Okay.
15:55:59 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
15:56:02 Opposes?
15:56:02 Okay.
15:56:03 So moved.
15:56:05 Okay, any other items that need to come before us?
15:56:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to receive and file.
15:56:09 >> Second.
15:56:09 (Motion carried).
15:56:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:56:11 Then that concludes.
15:56:13 Anyone who wants to address council, public comment?
15:56:17 That concludes our meeting today.
15:56:20 We will have public comment at this time.
15:56:22 (City Council meeting adjourned)
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