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Tampa City Council
Thursday, October 23, 2008
9:00 a.m. session

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09:07:04 [Sounding gavel]
09:07:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called to order.
09:07:07 The chair will yield to miss Mary Mulhern.
09:07:11 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Madam Chair.
09:07:13 I would like to introduce officer Sutton, who is going
09:07:17 to give the invocation for us, if everyone can please
09:07:20 stand and remain standing for the pledge.
09:07:24 >>> Father God, we thank you this morning for our
09:07:27 being here.
09:07:28 We thank you for our early morning rising this
09:07:30 morning.

09:07:31 God, we ask you to touch our mayor, our City Council
09:07:35 men and women, police officers, firemen, everyone in
09:07:39 public safety, all our city department heads.
09:07:41 God, we thank you for our being here.
09:07:43 In Jesus name we pray.
09:07:45 Amen.
09:07:48 (Pledge of Allegiance)
09:07:59 >>CHAIRMAN: Roll call.
09:08:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:08:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:08:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:08:10 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:08:11 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:08:13 >>GWEN MILLER: I'd like to put on the record that
09:08:14 Reverend Scott is going to be out of town this morning
09:08:16 and tonight so he will not be attending the morning or
09:08:19 the evening session.
09:08:23 At this time I will present the Officer of the Month.
09:08:26 Good morning, council.
09:08:40 It is my honor to present the Officer of the Month,
09:08:44 Mike Riviera.
09:08:45 >>> Chief Hogue sends his regrets.

09:08:54 He's not able to make it.
09:08:56 This is a highlight of the month for him to be able to
09:08:58 do this, so I guess this makes it my lucky day.
09:09:02 I get to introduce Michael Rivera as our Officer of
09:09:05 the Month for October.
09:09:07 Back in mid August we had a bank robbery downtown, and
09:09:11 master patrol officer Rivera is assigned to the
09:09:16 downtown area.
09:09:17 What happens is that a BOLO goes out describing the
09:09:19 location, what occurred, and what the suspect looks
09:09:22 like.
09:09:23 So all available officers came down into the downtown
09:09:26 area and were looking for this individual who had fled
09:09:29 on foot.
09:09:30 Officer Rivera begins to think, where could he
09:09:32 possibly go?
09:09:33 They looked around for about 15 minutes, were unable
09:09:36 to find him.
09:09:37 He thought about the Marion street bus mart, there's a
09:09:42 possibility he went toward that area, went down to
09:09:44 that area, saw an individual who loosely fit the
09:09:47 description.

09:09:47 He didn't have the same clothing on but he had a bag
09:09:50 wrapped in his shirt and he was hurriedly boarding the
09:09:54 bus down there.
09:09:54 So officer Rivera went and blocked off the bus' route
09:09:58 with his police car, got onto the bus, and began to
09:10:01 question the individual.
09:10:02 He asked him what was in his bag, and he said he had
09:10:05 just made a withdrawal from the bank, which I guess
09:10:07 was true.
09:10:09 [ Laughter ]
09:10:10 But he didn't use the normal procedure of a withdrawal
09:10:13 slip and used a weapon instead.
09:10:16 So officer Rivera was able to obviously identify this
09:10:20 individual as the bank robber and place him under
09:10:22 arrest.
09:10:23 Now, I can tell you from personal experience working
09:10:26 around him throughout his career that this is just one
09:10:29 example of what he does every day.
09:10:31 He's an outstanding police officer.
09:10:34 He works very, very hard, and obviously he's able to
09:10:38 think quickly on his feet.
09:10:40 And this is just one example of his innovative

09:10:44 thinking that led to our lowered crime rate.
09:10:46 So we are very, very proud to name him as Officer of
09:10:49 the Month for October.
09:10:52 Michael Rivera.
09:10:56 [ Applause ]
09:10:59 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to present you a
09:11:00 commendation from the Tampa City Council.
09:11:02 I'm not going to read it because it says all the same
09:11:05 things that she just said.
09:11:14 They are going to come up now and give you some other
09:11:18 things.
09:11:20 >>> On behalf of Tampa PBA, a gift certificate for
09:11:25 you.
09:11:27 >>> Danny Lewis from Bill Currie Ford Lincoln-Mercury.
09:11:32 I would like to present this watch from the family.
09:11:43 >>> I would like to present you with a certain for a
09:11:50 free pair of sunglasses.
09:11:54 >>> On behalf of Stepp's towing we would like to
09:11:59 present with you this statue.
09:12:01 Also a gift certificate to sell Monday's.
09:12:07 Blah thank you, sir.
09:12:08 >>>

09:12:16 >>STEVE MICHELINI: You may have to trade the shirt in.
09:12:19 I'm not sure it's the same right.
09:12:21 You have to go to this restaurant to switch it out.
09:12:23 They are going to give you a gift certificate so you
09:12:25 can go enjoy your lunch or dinner there at your choice
09:12:28 of rigatoni's, and I guess that's police officer blue.
09:12:34 Who Rays blue.
09:12:37 We root for the Rays today.
09:12:39 You already have Stepps towing.
09:12:43 Hillsborough County towing is providing with you a
09:12:45 gift to your choice, Lee Roy Selmon, Outback, or
09:12:49 Caraba's, $50 gift certificate.
09:12:52 >> On behalf of Bryn Allen studios, a photographic
09:12:55 copy to take this letter, and a phone number to
09:13:00 schedule your portrait.
09:13:02 On behalf of David laxer and Bern's steak house, a $50
09:13:08 gift certificate.
09:13:10 I already told but rigatoni's.
09:13:12 You can switch this out.
09:13:13 Give it to your wife or give it to somebody else.
09:13:15 Anyway, we are really happy for you.
09:13:17 And congratulations.

09:13:19 We are glad that you took the effort to go and find
09:13:24 the bad boys.
09:13:25 So thank you.
09:13:28 >>> You know, when I started work that day I never
09:13:30 thought that any of of this would happen.
09:13:32 It was just another day.
09:13:35 Pretty much just luck, I think.
09:13:39 Took the description, went up to Marion street bus
09:13:41 mall and just happened to find this individual.
09:13:44 I work for a very good group of supervisors, from my
09:13:49 immediate supervisors all the way up through my chain
09:13:52 of command, and just luck, I think.
09:13:55 They say good police work, but I think just luck.
09:13:58 And I'm very humbled.
09:13:59 And thank you for everything you have done for me.
09:14:01 I really appreciate it.
09:14:03 [ Applause ]
09:14:05 >>GWEN MILLER: The chair will yield to Mrs. Linda
09:14:33 Saul-Sena.
09:14:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This morning we have some
09:14:36 representatives of the history center, and I believe
09:14:39 that they want -- Ms. Wysong?

09:14:43 Could you come up and explain the history center's
09:14:45 request?
09:14:46 Thank you.
09:14:48 >>> Donna Wysong, assistant city attorney.
09:14:51 We have today representatives from the Tampa Bay
09:14:55 history center, Roberts, and Rydberg law firm, here
09:15:03 today to ask for a special hearing on their alcoholic
09:15:10 beverages license for the history center.
09:15:13 That's going to be opening the first week of January.
09:15:17 They are asking for a special request to have their
09:15:20 special hearing to be held on the December 4th.
09:15:33 Way it works with their complication getting their
09:15:36 survey prepared they are not scheduled to be heard
09:15:38 until December 20th F.they are not heard until
09:15:40 December 20th, given the time frame of the first
09:15:43 hearing and the first reading and the second reading,
09:15:47 they would not be scheduled to get their license until
09:15:52 sometime later in January.
09:15:54 And they would really like to be able to have that to
09:15:57 be scheduled along with their grand opening in the
09:16:00 first week of January, so they would like to ask the
09:16:05 council to have their hearing on December 1st,

09:16:08 which is a little bit out of cycle.
09:16:11 >> Would it be the 4th?
09:16:15 >>> December 4th.
09:16:19 I'm sorry, I don't know what I said.
09:16:20 >> I would like to ask the administration to come back
09:16:22 for an evening meeting.
09:16:23 >> Sure, we can bring in a back tonight.
09:16:26 >> We have a motion and second.
09:16:28 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
09:16:30 Mr. Shelby?
09:16:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That would be the first reading on
09:16:33 December 4th at 1:30 in the afternoon, and the
09:16:35 second reading would then be at 1:30 in the afternoon.
09:16:39 Or actually it would be the second reading.
09:16:41 So the second reading is on the 18th of December.
09:16:45 >>> Right.
09:16:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The second reading would be in the
09:16:50 morning.
09:16:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
09:16:56 >>> that will come back to us this evening.
09:16:59 >>> That's right.
09:17:00 That's correct.

09:17:01 I don't know if you want to hear from any --
09:17:03 >>GWEN MILLER: No, that's fine.
09:17:07 >>> Great.
09:17:08 Thank you very much.
09:17:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Caetano?
09:17:12 >> Madam Chairman, we neglected this morning to
09:17:14 remember Miguel MERCADO who was recently killed while
09:17:23 working and also his buddy who was with him Joe
09:17:25 Campbell who is in the Tampa General Hospital.
09:17:27 I would like to have a moment of silence for him and
09:17:29 their families.
09:17:33 (moment of silence)
09:17:36 >>GWEN MILLER: We now need to open our workshop.
09:17:46 >> So moved.
09:17:48 >> Second.
09:17:48 (Motion carried).
09:17:49 >>THOM SNELLING: Growth management development
09:18:01 services.
09:18:02 I was just telling Julia, in the 15 years Irv coming
09:18:05 up here and talking to council, I don't know that I
09:18:07 have ever been nervous.
09:18:09 I'm a little nervous and I don't even know why.

09:18:13 So here we go.
09:18:16 This is, as you know, I was designated city's green
09:18:21 officer about six months ago, and in June, June
09:18:24 26th, City Council passed a tandem pair a couple
09:18:29 of ordinances chapter 17.5 and 13 that codified
09:18:33 certain things to happen and they also passed a very
09:18:36 comprehensive resolution.
09:18:37 What I have in front of me today, I wanted to didn't
09:18:41 to you before, I have extra copies if anybody did not
09:18:43 bring them.
09:18:45 I think I'll pass them out, hand them to the clerk.
09:18:49 And what this matrix is -- this represents the actual
09:19:12 resolution.
09:19:13 Areas highlighted in yellow in the extreme left column
09:19:16 is the actual wording from the resolution itself that
09:19:18 was passed that describes the various activities that,
09:19:21 you know, the city would be following in a program to
09:19:24 become greener, and more sustainable place to live.
09:19:29 And as you move from left to right, you see who the
09:19:32 lead agency would be in pursuing that particular
09:19:35 activity, and then columns whether it's been completed
09:19:40 as of December 30th or if it's on schedule for

09:19:43 three month, six to 12 month or 12-month completion
09:19:46 date, and I just highlighted them in different areas
09:19:48 so you can kind of follow along.
09:19:50 They have developed some level of expectation.
09:19:52 So as I build on reports in the future you can have
09:19:54 this as a standard to say this is what we said we were
09:19:57 going to be on this date.
09:19:58 So we are three months later, six months later,
09:20:01 et cetera, et cetera.
09:20:02 So that will be kind of easy for council to follow in
09:20:04 that regard.
09:20:05 But probably the biggest change that you will seep in
09:20:07 subsequent reports to this matrix will be that the
09:20:10 body of the little programs and policies and practices
09:20:14 underneath each of the tabs, which are just listed
09:20:18 there in white, or with no highlight at all, will
09:20:22 probably expand and grow as we add additional policies
09:20:24 and procedures to those particular efforts.
09:20:27 What I wanted to do is to go ahead and walk you
09:20:32 through this and just highlight some of the stuff.
09:20:34 I don't want to go through and identify each and every
09:20:36 one but if council has a particular question in any

09:20:38 one of these items, I'll certainly explain it to you
09:20:41 and talk to you about it as much as you desire.
09:20:43 But I'm just going to highlight what I see are some of
09:20:46 the items that deserve to be highlighted.
09:20:51 The first one where it talks about research, perhaps a
09:20:54 couple of things happened, two things were very
09:20:56 important.
09:20:57 One of the things that we have already talked to the
09:20:59 county and the extension office was about partnering
09:21:01 with them on different, you know, as you know we are
09:21:04 going to continue to point out some of the fire
09:21:06 stations, there's a product we may want to start
09:21:09 monitoring how that works, a polymer that you put in
09:21:12 the soil, you mix it with the soil, it absorbs water,
09:21:16 it starts to dry out, it releases water back into the
09:21:19 plants, that allows to you expand or extend, to reduce
09:21:23 the amount of watering you have to add, if you are
09:21:26 watering once a week, you probably go to watering once
09:21:29 a month.
09:21:30 So it's a huge savings, quite a fabulous product.
09:21:32 And the county extension service is very interested in
09:21:34 partnering with us on that.

09:21:35 When we did fire station 14 we really didn't have time
09:21:38 to put all of that together but we talked to them
09:21:40 since and they are very interested in doing that kind
09:21:42 of thing with us.
09:21:43 The other thing as you all know you have seen a lot of
09:21:46 tree canopy study.
09:21:48 It is such a fabulous study that what that will allow
09:21:50 us to do is to continue to measure and monitor our
09:21:53 carbon footprint, if you will, and the amount of
09:21:57 carbon sequestration that will happen from the amount
09:22:00 of trees and the way the program is set up that goes
09:22:02 along with this is that you can monitor on a regular
09:22:05 basis, which is going to become a valuable tool, and
09:22:07 as you know council can start to use that to modify
09:22:10 some of the other tree and landscape code policies
09:22:14 based on actual science.
09:22:15 So those going to be a good thing and that's something
09:22:17 we will continue to work with especially with the
09:22:19 Parks Department, and have been very proud of that and
09:22:23 it's a good document.
09:22:24 Service and outreach.
09:22:25 This is perhaps where we have been perhaps very busy,

09:22:29 myself, COLENA, we have spoken to a number of groups,
09:22:36 have spoken at USF on a different thing, speaking in
09:22:39 November 14th to emerging green builders on a
09:22:42 panel for sustainability with Dr. Kibbarred, probably
09:22:49 like the quintessential expert, I'm actually a little
09:22:54 intimidated to be sitting on the same panel with him,
09:22:56 but what the heck, it will be a good experience for me
09:22:58 as well.
09:22:59 And then also we are also participating, and I will
09:23:03 mention this again with, some of the other outreach
09:23:05 programs.
09:23:05 We have spoken to different agencies.
09:23:07 Lauralee went up and spoke to an insurance group, and
09:23:10 they want add green speaker to talk about how you can
09:23:12 do more things green in your office.
09:23:14 So we are conducting more and more outreach as it
09:23:17 goes.
09:23:19 And then on page 2, very quickly, the other big thing
09:23:23 is that we have started already, is that we have been
09:23:26 in contact with the international council for local
09:23:28 environmental initiatives which is going to become
09:23:33 very important as we try to establish our greenhouse

09:23:37 admission baseline which is the very first step to do
09:23:40 to find out where you have to reduce from them.
09:23:42 We had a meeting about a month ago with some members
09:23:44 of the Sierra Club who offered to help us do this, and
09:23:47 Pi all means I'm accepting as much help as I can get
09:23:50 on this.
09:23:50 They have asked to do that.
09:23:52 We also, our solid waste department has applied -- I'm
09:23:57 getting ahead of myself -- applied for a grant to help
09:24:00 establish and help look at the greenhouse gas
09:24:05 initiatives, just awaiting the outcome of that.
09:24:07 The next item very quickly is waste reduction.
09:24:10 Again, solid waste is working on commercial and
09:24:14 demolition recycling program.
09:24:16 It's a matter of making sure you have the correct kind
09:24:19 of bins delivered to a job site so the contractors
09:24:23 themselves, whether it's the city or private
09:24:26 enterprise, so that they have the ability to put
09:24:28 cardboard in a cardboard bin, and metal and stuff like
09:24:32 that in others and stuff that has to go to the
09:24:34 landfill, and you kind of spread out your stream a
09:24:37 little bit and recycle the product, and she's working

09:24:41 on putting together that kind of a program.
09:24:43 So we can take advantage of it.
09:24:45 As you know, council, at your last meeting you already
09:24:48 approved from the CMU program --
09:24:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do we have a CMD site, now, that
09:25:00 they would take it?
09:25:01 Or do they take it out of the county?
09:25:03 And is there a CMD site in the county?
09:25:06 >>> I can get back with you on that, councilman
09:25:08 I.don't know for sure if we have a particular site
09:25:10 that would be going to.
09:25:12 >> Seems like a great idea, because when you go by
09:25:15 construction sites, whether or not they are single
09:25:16 family, you know, or big project like the museum, you
09:25:23 see a lot of waste going in the same wastestream.
09:25:26 >>THOM SNELLING: And I will check up on that.
09:25:30 I would think that would be part of the overall
09:25:32 program to make sure it does stay separate.
09:25:34 Otherwise you are taking to the same place.
09:25:38 I'll find out about that for you.
09:25:42 Previously, council had approved nonferrous metal
09:25:47 recovery.

09:25:47 Did you that at your last meeting.
09:25:49 And right now, in terms of waste reduction, one of the
09:25:52 things that is very interesting, there was an article
09:25:54 in the paper not too long ago about the RF-5 for the
09:25:57 yard waste being converted to some type of ethanol or
09:26:01 bio fuel or something like that.
09:26:02 A couple of our staff members now are meeting with the
09:26:04 very first that applied.
09:26:08 I couldn't attend because I'm here, to find out more
09:26:10 about what they are doing.
09:26:11 There's a series of meetings coming up.
09:26:13 I'll be attending those to see exactly what this
09:26:16 project is about and how it's going to function,
09:26:17 Howitt going to work and be able to report back to
09:26:20 council, as that begins to unfold a little bit.
09:26:29 Council, now you already adapted chapter 17, went into
09:26:33 effect October 1st, that requires new city-owned
09:26:36 buildings to reach an equivalent of a LEED certified
09:26:39 rating as well as our rehabilitation of our buildings
09:26:43 when they are undergoing major renovation.
09:26:45 We need a major LEED certification, and that has
09:26:49 already been adopted and you are aware of that.

09:26:51 On the procurement, again, our current policies show
09:26:57 that when we put out a request for proposal for any of
09:27:00 our janitorial services, the utilization of green
09:27:03 field products, which is environmentally friendly,
09:27:07 safer type of cleansing product, and janitorial
09:27:10 product, is specified out in the RFP itself.
09:27:13 We have been doing that and will continue to do so.
09:27:15 And then I have listed out some of the amount that the
09:27:18 city already is using, bio diesel, and, you know, the
09:27:23 gallonage, I guess, not tonnage, the gallonage listed
09:27:26 in the status column.
09:27:27 You can take a look at that.
09:27:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you want council to interrupt you?
09:27:39 >>THOM SNELLING: Absolutely.
09:27:39 If there's a question, yes.
09:27:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Streetlights.
09:27:42 Have we evaluated whether our streetlights -- and the
09:27:44 lights on in our own building, have we committed to
09:27:49 using bulbs that use less energy?
09:27:52 >>THOM SNELLING: Yes.
09:27:53 And a lot of those, the rehabilitation work, maybe
09:27:56 this is a good time to talk about that.

09:27:58 That particular item, I don't have it listed here
09:28:00 because that is one of the items that I submitted as
09:28:03 why the city should be considered a Florida green
09:28:05 local government.
09:28:06 It doesn't show up in that, but it does show off the
09:28:09 various efforts we have taken and some of our Columbus
09:28:15 municipal office building, they changed out, put in
09:28:18 more efficient lights.
09:28:19 These, I don't know, Councilwoman, if we have.
09:28:22 >> Are we going to?
09:28:24 >> I can talk to David and see when it's on the
09:28:26 schedule to rotate some of those things.
09:28:28 But I do know that anytime there's a renovation
09:28:33 project, they are installing light sensors and more
09:28:36 efficient balance lasts, and anytime it's happened,
09:28:38 just jump over and start popping them in everywhere, I
09:28:41 don't know, or when that is on schedule to do.
09:28:44 But I do know as David is moving through, Mr. Vaughan
09:28:46 is moving through in the various renovations of all of
09:28:48 the buildings that everything he does is with an eye
09:28:51 towards energy efficient, and more efficient use of
09:28:53 water, energy, lights.

09:28:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would think that that would be
09:28:56 something that we list in the future under the phase
09:29:00 of retrofit, because we might be building a new
09:29:03 building every two years, as we have many older
09:29:06 buildings.
09:29:07 >>> I think we are going to be quite active in the
09:29:09 retrofitting, quite honestly.
09:29:11 >> That's the kind of thing I assume you are going to
09:29:13 report back to us on a quarterly basis that I would
09:29:15 like to track and see how we are doing with that.
09:29:17 Then the other question is also about lights, not the
09:29:19 inside lights, the outside lights, our streetlights.
09:29:22 I didn't see the city paid for streetlights, now, we
09:29:27 paid for them.
09:29:28 And we pay for the bulb and we pay for the electricity
09:29:31 for them.
09:29:31 And if we use more efficient bulbs, we'll spend less
09:29:35 on electricity.
09:29:36 >>> I know there has been a big program to swap out
09:29:39 all of the traffic signals, the traffic lights to
09:29:41 LEDs and the walk-across signals, the LED lights,
09:29:45 which over a period of five years I think they are

09:29:47 doing that, have all of the traffic signals, about 400
09:29:52 intersections swapped out with led lights which adds
09:29:57 up to about $850,000 savings when that project is done
09:29:59 and it's been in place for about three years and I
09:30:02 think they are going to have the rest of it wrapped
09:30:03 up, and I know that in Ybor City, some of the
09:30:07 streetlights that you are talking about, whatever they
09:30:10 are called, I know some of those have been replaced
09:30:12 with more efficient streetlights.
09:30:14 >> That's the kind of thing, this is exciting, this is
09:30:17 fabulous, this is our first attempt to get our arms
09:30:21 around all the things we are doing.
09:30:22 So I'm suggesting for the next quarterly report,
09:30:25 that's the kind of thing that I'd like to see very
09:30:30 specifically.
09:30:35 How much we have done, when we anticipate
09:30:38 retrofitting.
09:30:39 And, you know, if it takes five years, it takes five
09:30:42 years.
09:30:43 But I feel like we need a clear path.
09:30:45 I feel right now we are just in the process of getting
09:30:47 our arms around the size of the issue.

09:30:50 But those are very specific things that we control as
09:30:53 a city, where we can make more energy efficient
09:30:56 choices.
09:30:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
09:31:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thom, this is really good stuff and
09:31:05 I want to hear more.
09:31:06 But in regard to other departments, I mean, clearly
09:31:10 you have got, you know, 15, 20 different departments
09:31:14 to wrap your hands around.
09:31:16 And you are sort of the pinnacle of all this
09:31:19 information and enthusiasm, hopefully, you know,
09:31:23 around the departments.
09:31:24 But does each department have somebody within the
09:31:27 department who is in charge of this effort for that
09:31:30 department or division or what have you?
09:31:34 And are you getting reports from them individually,
09:31:39 department by department or division by division to
09:31:41 come to you to consolidate that information?
09:31:45 Also, I know it sounds a little militaristic, but is
09:31:48 there an opportunity to go out and inspector, you
09:31:51 know, view the various activities of those departments
09:31:53 or divisions so you can see firsthand and say, Oh,

09:31:58 have you guys thought about this, have you thought
09:32:00 about that?
09:32:00 I know it's early in the process.
09:32:02 But what is the future going to hold for us in that
09:32:06 regard?
09:32:07 >> There's a couple of questions, councilman.
09:32:09 First part of the question is we do have a green team
09:32:12 that has representatives for each of the various
09:32:14 department, solid waste, water, sewer, transportation,
09:32:17 et cetera.
09:32:17 We meet I think every third Tuesday, or as close to
09:32:22 that of the month as possible, where they do come back
09:32:25 and say these are the items we started on, these we'll
09:32:28 be working on.
09:32:29 Most recently, I have met individually with the
09:32:32 members of the team, and asked them about the
09:32:34 individual items that are listed here, and said, I
09:32:38 need to have a report back coming up in my next
09:32:40 meeting is going to be in November, and they are going
09:32:42 to come back.
09:32:44 For example, I talked to solid waste about the
09:32:49 demolition recycling program.

09:32:50 He said, yeah, let me put together something like
09:32:53 that.
09:32:53 I expect when I meet again in November, okay, here is
09:32:56 where we are with this, here's what we are doing,
09:32:58 perhaps answer some of your questions.
09:32:59 Here's the time frame.
09:33:01 Step 1, 2, 3, one year, two year, whatever it happens
09:33:06 to be.
09:33:06 Yes, we do meet on a regular basis.
09:33:08 Yes, they do report back to me on some of the items we
09:33:10 talked about and that's the way that particular team
09:33:12 meeting is structured.
09:33:14 But the representatives of the department come back
09:33:16 and do tell me that this is what they are working on.
09:33:19 A big part of that, a big part of what's been going on
09:33:21 the last six months, is, you know, you have heard
09:33:24 about the inventory.
09:33:25 One of the first things that we did, or I did, was,
09:33:28 okay, we are done with the inventory for right now, we
09:33:31 need to have what we have and start to translate that
09:33:34 into the Florida Green Building Coalition in terms of
09:33:36 how does that translate into the certification of a

09:33:39 local -- a green local government?
09:33:42 And that's what we work on very hard.
09:33:44 These items here are in addition to that, and really
09:33:46 are not part of that actual designation process
09:33:51 because we had two tracks going here.
09:33:54 I'll talk about that in a second.
09:33:57 So the items that you see here are exactly that.
09:34:00 Those are the ongoing policy procedures, that I get
09:34:04 reported back to, and it's identified by the lead,
09:34:06 that is who reports back to the team on those items.
09:34:11 The second part, do I go out and inspect things?
09:34:14 I. Gone out and done actually inspection work.
09:34:18 I monitor things.
09:34:19 I see things.
09:34:20 I see people on a regular basis.
09:34:21 I feel like I have a pretty good handle on how they
09:34:24 are progressing and doing.
09:34:26 I have not actually gone out.
09:34:27 I suppose that's something I could do.
09:34:29 And I intend, as we are starting to do new building
09:34:32 and stuff like that, for my own personal interest and
09:34:35 curiosity, say, yeah, this is cool, this is what we

09:34:38 are doing.
09:34:39 I have been to the new police station -- well, not
09:34:42 new, but if you haven't been there it's kind of a neat
09:34:44 facility and it stuff you don't even really think
09:34:46 about, but there's a lot of lighting, all those kinds
09:34:50 of things and the sensors, and you see them and they
09:34:52 are actually in there.
09:34:53 So in that sense I have been to some of the facilities
09:34:56 I talked about.
09:34:57 I do plan once the building is open, Columbus
09:35:02 municipal office building, to do a visit up there
09:35:04 because I do want to see some of the stuff that we
09:35:06 have put in, because frankly, if you just put a little
09:35:09 label on the light switch and say, this is a light
09:35:12 sensor which reduces the amount of energy, you get a
09:35:15 point for that, that's an easy no-brainer point that I
09:35:18 want to get, so you get some points for that and
09:35:20 that's the stuff I would ask, would you just put up a
09:35:23 little plaque here?
09:35:25 And they'll be, yes, sure.
09:35:27 I haven't like actively inspected but I am out and
09:35:30 about.

09:35:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Hand in hand with that, each
09:35:37 department, are they represented on your green team
09:35:42 that's meeting regularly?
09:35:43 We don't want to miss any group, I guess is my point.
09:35:48 >> Yes.
09:35:49 And I recently added, I got the coy -- IT
09:35:55 informational technology to begin to participate on
09:35:57 that team as well, because before I hadn't thought in
09:36:02 reality the IT team has great potential to help
09:36:05 identify where there's energy usage and help us power
09:36:08 down some of the computers and printers and things
09:36:10 like that.
09:36:11 So I spoke to Mr. James Buckner who agreed to allow us
09:36:15 to have somebody, one of the members to become a
09:36:19 participant member in that, and I am going to continue
09:36:21 to expand that as the program develops, and again I
09:36:23 need somebody to really work on this thing for me.
09:36:26 But I'm pretty well representative on the utility,
09:36:30 I.T., parks and rec, growth management, of course.
09:36:35 Yes, everybody is on it.
09:36:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
09:36:38 Carry on.

09:36:39 >>THOM SNELLING: Okay.
09:36:42 Page 4.
09:36:43 Again, the transportation, a lot of that has to do
09:36:45 with encouraging the various kinds of public transit,
09:36:49 as you see.
09:36:50 I'm a walking billboard.
09:36:51 I have my little bus pass here and it's kind of neat.
09:36:54 Even though gas prices are still going up I still
09:36:57 refuse to get rid of it but all of these items here,
09:37:05 the barrier commuter service, things that promote ride
09:37:12 sharing, van pooling, is currently on our green web
09:37:15 page.
09:37:15 If you haven't seen it you should take a look at that.
09:37:18 And that's going to be a very dynamic page, as we
09:37:22 continually evolve and add more and more and better
09:37:25 information on that page but some of that stuff is
09:37:27 already on the web page as we are talking.
09:37:31 Stewardship.
09:37:33 The notion again, trying to work on a lot, is doing
09:37:40 various sustainable and green promotions which are on
09:37:42 the web page.
09:37:43 And I told you that we are developing a green

09:37:46 speaker's bureau.
09:37:47 There's three of thaws go out.
09:37:49 We have probably done up to a dozen different
09:37:51 engagements over the past six months.
09:37:54 And we'll continue to do so.
09:37:56 More and more people as they are hitting the web page.
09:37:58 And I think it's over a thousand hits we have had on
09:38:01 just our web page.
09:38:02 We have had requests come in, to speak to the Audubon
09:38:05 society, Sierra Club, various homeowners association
09:38:08 groups, different companies that want to talk about
09:38:10 what can they do to do different things?
09:38:13 And one of the things as you go through and you start
09:38:15 to look at that, if there's a common thread in this
09:38:17 resolution, it's really about trying to change
09:38:21 people's mental understanding, and there's a culture
09:38:26 of how they do things, how they work in the office,
09:38:28 and how they live at home, and whether or not you turn
09:38:30 the lights off and all that stuff.
09:38:32 It's trying to codify and program some of those
09:38:35 comments kinds of things.
09:38:38 So it's really the best thing that's going to come

09:38:40 from this resolution is a shift in the cultural --
09:38:44 that it's no longer being a green thing, it's just
09:38:47 being "the thing," whatever that happens to be.
09:38:51 And I wanted to talk about the green bag lunches.
09:38:53 We did agree to have somebody come in and talk to city
09:38:56 staff.
09:38:57 He does this on the outside.
09:38:58 He's built a couple of green buildings, gotten
09:39:01 certified with the construction, and he's agreed, and
09:39:03 his wife, to come in and conduct a series of these
09:39:07 classes for our staff that talks about the simple
09:39:09 things you can do, the easy things you can do, how
09:39:12 easy it is to be sustainable.
09:39:13 So he's already agreed to come in and I have the dates
09:39:16 listed there.
09:39:17 We are going to try to expand on that as well.
09:39:22 We have one person who is already LEED certified, and
09:39:25 we intend to get others certified over the course of
09:39:27 the next year, both in growth management as well as
09:39:30 contract administration.
09:39:31 We are going to try to expand that pretty well.
09:39:33 The web site I've already talked about that.

09:39:35 That's already up and running.
09:39:38 The bottom of page 5, at this time annual report which
09:39:41 you have in front of you.
09:39:42 And you have the annual report.
09:39:44 And then I identify here, as various events are
09:39:47 happening that deserve me to come back in front of
09:39:50 City Council, if council wants specific information, I
09:39:54 have identified that as well.
09:39:57 Going back again to working with the purchasing
09:39:59 department about fuel efficiency, you all know we have
09:40:03 the hybrids and the Camry but we have three additional
09:40:07 hybrids on order now, and I didn't even realize the
09:40:10 great extent of the number of the flex fuel vehicles.
09:40:13 It was 178.
09:40:14 And kind of the neatest thing is the mercury
09:40:19 associates, the consultants currently looking at our
09:40:21 fleet operation, and trying to help us identify what
09:40:24 is the right size to make sure that the correct
09:40:27 vehicles are sent to the correct jobs, and all that
09:40:30 translates into more efficient use of fuel, efficient
09:40:33 use of personnel, it's just really an efficiency
09:40:35 expert kind of view on how we are operating our fleet.

09:40:38 And fuel efficiency is going to be an offshoot of that
09:40:40 just by the fact of how you are going to do things,
09:40:43 and tell you how to operate meaner, cleaner and better
09:40:46 so fuel efficiency will be an option of that study as
09:40:48 well.
09:40:49 >> When will that be done?
09:40:51 And can you make sure council gets a copy?
09:40:53 >>THOM SNELLING: Yes, I can make sure you get a copy.
09:40:58 And I knew you were going to ask that and I forgot to
09:41:00 check the date.
09:41:01 But I talked to Jim Perry the other day.
09:41:06 Again, on the ICLEI, international council for local
09:41:17 environmental initiatives, we did meet with some of
09:41:19 the folks from the Sierra Club.
09:41:21 We have applied for the grant to start to establish a
09:41:24 baseline emissions information to begin to go forward
09:41:27 to identify a program of how we can reduce that.
09:41:30 But the good thing, I want to identify this so I don't
09:41:36 get it really low, then I go even lower than that.
09:41:40 So anything we do from here on out is contributing
09:41:43 towards that.
09:41:48 Land development regulations, as you know, we made

09:41:51 some of the changes on the turf grass and how that
09:41:53 works out.
09:41:54 27 as council knows better than anybody it's updated
09:41:58 biannually, and Land Development Coordination comes to
09:42:01 you and says we want to try this because that's more
09:42:04 efficient sustainable approach.
09:42:05 Currently, we just finished, just before I went on
09:42:09 vacation, getting through the transportation technical
09:42:11 manual and the transportation code, and the first
09:42:13 draft of that was to really determine how you separate
09:42:17 the actual engineering on the "how to build a road"
09:42:21 kind of stuff versus policy decisions.
09:42:24 As we start to pull this document back together, I
09:42:26 will be contributing towards the kinds of things that
09:42:29 either help or hurt sustainability and try to make
09:42:32 those corrections and that code and that's already
09:42:34 underway now.
09:42:35 And I have a list, on the other things, had we are
09:42:48 figuring about a year before we get through the entire
09:42:52 Land Development Code.
09:42:54 But it's about December of 2009 so it's about a year
09:42:58 before we get through the entire -- there's like seven

09:43:01 or eight different codes.
09:43:02 That sounds like a long time, I know.
09:43:04 That's a lot of codes to go through, to PORE through,
09:43:07 a lot of documentation.
09:43:09 But that's the schedule we are kind of looking at now
09:43:12 that was given to me by land development, just trying
09:43:15 to coordinate that.
09:43:17 Okay.
09:43:20 The incentive portion, council adopted the rebate
09:43:25 program.
09:43:25 We have the fast track permitting program.
09:43:28 The other thing that we want to do, since there are a
09:43:30 lot of grants that are out there, and there's places
09:43:33 like Home Depot, Publix, Kash N' Karry, and the larger
09:43:37 corporate citizens, you know, they are pretty bright
09:43:41 in marketing so they are making funds available to
09:43:43 contribute to help people do things, you know,
09:43:46 anything from efficiency where you retrofit your
09:43:49 house, you get some kind of rebate on the retrofitting
09:43:53 and stuff like that, all the way through Home Depot
09:43:55 does programs, Publix, believe it or not, makes funds
09:43:59 available, and I have identified within a six-month

09:44:02 period to try to get all of that stuff together in one
09:44:05 little place so if someone says, what can I do?
09:44:08 I can give them the OME of information, here, do these
09:44:11 things, and it will have all the private sector,
09:44:14 public sector, government grants, philanthropists,
09:44:18 everything, so it will make it a little easier so
09:44:20 people can find cash and find incentives a little
09:44:23 easier.
09:44:24 They are out there now.
09:44:25 It's just like you said, Councilwoman, getting your
09:44:28 arm around everything.
09:44:29 Because there is quite a bit out there.
09:44:30 Both in the private and the public sector.
09:44:37 On the training thing, actually, we had our first
09:44:41 training program for our inspectors, and plans
09:44:46 reviewers scheduled for tomorrow.
09:44:47 Trainer, presenter, she had to reschedule.
09:44:49 So we are going to reschedule that.
09:44:51 And we'll have probably that one done within, you
09:44:52 know, the month of November or December, have that
09:44:55 back up there.
09:44:55 And that's the first thing.

09:44:57 That's greening 101, what to look for, how to look for
09:45:01 it.
09:45:02 Because one of the things that came clear with some of
09:45:04 the folks as we were going through the initial
09:45:06 adoption of this program was that, you know, they felt
09:45:09 that the inspectors, they walked out and looked at a
09:45:11 job and, hmmm, they have never seen this before.
09:45:14 So that was one of the reasons we selected that, so
09:45:18 that as people are doing that, that they are familiar
09:45:20 with what they are looking at.
09:45:25 >> This is exactly what we have heard from people who
09:45:29 are trying to get green buildings through the system.
09:45:32 And I would say as quickly as you can do it.
09:45:34 I mean, we had this conversation eight months ago or
09:45:37 nine months ago and it's not going to be till
09:45:39 November.
09:45:41 I have to say a little disappointment that it hasn't
09:45:45 happened yet but I hope it's going to happen next
09:45:48 month and in the interim if somebody comes through
09:45:50 with a green building that the inspectors don't just
09:45:53 say, no, it's weird.
09:45:57 >>> Already I have worked with Mr. Barrios at the

09:46:01 construction center and he has his inspectors and
09:46:04 reviewers well well attuned to this.
09:46:06 They know what they are looking for.
09:46:09 We have had somebody actually come through for the
09:46:11 fast track permitting review.
09:46:13 As a matter of fact, the person submitted without
09:46:16 going through the fast track review.
09:46:18 They submitted.
09:46:19 They turned it in.
09:46:20 It was actually one of John's supervisors who
09:46:22 identified said, wait a minute, you are a green
09:46:24 building, why don't you take advantage of the fast
09:46:26 track?
09:46:27 So this is a person already on his staff that
09:46:29 identified it, pulled him back and said, no, you can
09:46:32 take advantage of this.
09:46:35 One of Gloria's members went down, looked at the
09:46:37 plans, stamped off on them, boom, saved him about ten
09:46:40 days in review time.
09:46:42 So they are out there.
09:46:43 They are in tune.
09:46:43 They are focused on this stuff.

09:46:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Hand in hand with that issue, two
09:46:50 questions come to mind.
09:46:53 I would think that somewhere on John's forms, on any
09:46:56 of the forms, either residential or commercial, there
09:46:58 should be some kind of check box.
09:47:01 Will this be a LEED certified building?
09:47:03 Are you doing -- what are you doing, you know, that's
09:47:07 environmentally friendly, or green construction?
09:47:09 Just as a question.
09:47:11 Because maybe if there's a check box they check off,
09:47:13 that it would trigger sort of, you know, that type of
09:47:17 activity, and interaction between the city and the
09:47:19 builder.
09:47:22 And the second, that's more of a comment.
09:47:24 The second one is a question again going over to
09:47:27 construction services, is now that there is an
09:47:32 incentive plan in place, according to this chart,
09:47:37 hopefully it's in place or it's going to be in place
09:47:39 soon, and there's at least a $50,000 incentive bundle
09:47:45 there for build towers take advantage of.
09:47:48 >>> Yes, there is.
09:47:49 >> The question would be to you or to them, what are

09:47:52 we doing?
09:47:52 What is the city doing to market that and to encourage
09:47:56 that?
09:47:57 And have we had discussions with the home builders
09:48:01 yet, that that is there to take advantage of, you
09:48:05 know, that sort of thing?
09:48:08 >>> One question with multiple --
09:48:11 >> Well, it's almost a rhetorical question because
09:48:13 what I'm saying is we need to do all of that.
09:48:16 >>> And I have.
09:48:17 I have gone into a couple of my meetings with the
09:48:19 Tampa Bay builders association and told them this plan
09:48:22 wasn't in place and that was well represented and they
09:48:25 distributed and broadcast that information.
09:48:26 We have been in touch with the leadership of that
09:48:31 organization, and let them know that this program
09:48:34 exists.
09:48:34 It is posted on our web page, it says the city has
09:48:37 these incentives and the rebate fee is one and the
09:48:41 fast track is another, so it has been advertised and
09:48:43 we can do more to let people know it's out there.
09:48:46 We have had a couple, a few interests already asking

09:48:48 about when this happens, you know, the policy is in
09:48:51 place, it basically, you know, someone who already has
09:48:55 their CO and is up and running, we are not going to go
09:48:58 back and retro and say here's your reward.
09:49:02 It's only for the folks that have come in since it's
09:49:04 adopted October 1, and that they get their
09:49:06 certification from either USGBC or Florida Green
09:49:10 Building Coalition depending whether it's commercial
09:49:13 or residential, and then they present that, and, you
09:49:15 know, then we verify that it is legitimate
09:49:20 certification, and we scratch in the rebate depending
09:49:22 on what level they achieve as the ordinance says.
09:49:25 So that's already in place.
09:49:26 We have communicated that out there.
09:49:28 It's on the web site.
09:49:29 And we'll continue to do that.
09:49:31 I mean, as I'm speaking to these different groups and
09:49:33 as our staff is speaking to these different groups, we
09:49:35 talk about that as a routine, what kind of incentives
09:49:38 we have.
09:49:39 This comes up a lot.
09:49:40 So we have been marketing a lot.

09:49:43 Haven't taken an add in the paper or anything.
09:49:45 >> No, but our CTTV, are you doing a groan program
09:49:49 coming up?
09:49:50 >>> We are trying to get a production of that
09:49:51 together.
09:49:54 Teleview production is a lot more involved than I ever
09:49:56 thought in my life, and you have got to write it, you
09:49:59 have got to find time for it, you have to staff it.
09:50:02 But, yes, that's on the radar screen.
09:50:05 As we try to take more advantage of government access
09:50:08 television and getting that kind of word out there.
09:50:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
09:50:12 >>THOM SNELLING: We do.
09:50:17 About two months ago we sent three of our staff up to
09:50:21 Gainesville and they are now certified raters for.
09:50:24 But he would don't rate people.
09:50:25 It's a conflict of interest I didn't want to get into.
09:50:30 The rest of this, I would like to to spend a little
09:50:33 bit of time -- I want to talk about the sustainable
09:50:36 design assessment team.
09:50:39 This is identified as one of the things.
09:50:41 It's on the very last page, talking about outreach

09:50:44 programs and basically that's what it is.
09:50:45 I'm on the steering committee.
09:50:47 Councilwoman Saul-Sena is on the steering committee.
09:50:50 That's coming up in November.
09:50:51 That's exactly the kind of thing we are trying to get
09:50:54 more involved with Lauralee and Randy Goers, and will
09:50:57 be when it's coming up.
09:50:58 But that's part of the community outreach.
09:51:00 And I think what's happening is people are identifying
09:51:03 that the city has a person they can contact, more and
09:51:09 more, now, a lot more phone calls.
09:51:12 Admittedly some of them are for people who want to
09:51:14 partner with me and they'll be glad to help me out for
09:51:16 a fee, if I would do this for them.
09:51:18 But a lot of people have been stepping up, and I'm
09:51:20 just learning now how to take more advantage of
09:51:22 people -- because there are a lot of people who just
09:51:25 want to help and they are very legitimate about that.
09:51:28 I mentioned the guy and his wife, they are willing to
09:51:31 come in.
09:51:31 They are builders and they want to put this program on
09:51:33 for us and we are accepting them and working with the

09:51:38 emerging green builders, and I I am on a panel coming
09:51:41 up with that.
09:51:42 So there are folks out there willing to help.
09:51:44 So I think as he would get more and more involved with
09:51:46 this, at least let them discovering over my tenure the
09:51:50 last six months, more and more people are reaching out
09:51:53 with legitimate offers to help.
09:51:55 And sometimes it's hard to figure out exactly how to
09:51:58 let them help.
09:51:59 Sometimes you just have to get out of the way.
09:52:01 And worry getting better at that, and I'm getting
09:52:03 better at that.
09:52:04 And then I think what I would like to do now is talk a
09:52:07 little bit about the Florida Green Building Coalition
09:52:09 and the whole certified green local government aspect
09:52:12 and how that came about, and how we have approached
09:52:15 it.
09:52:16 I want to start by saying, first, this document here,
09:52:20 most of the items that are identified as the projects
09:52:22 and the programs were not really submitted as part of
09:52:25 that submittal package.
09:52:27 We have turned the package in.

09:52:28 We turned it in a couple of weeks ago, and we are
09:52:31 right now in the process of negotiating exactly which
09:52:35 parts of the overall -- of the overall projects are
09:52:39 applicable to the City of Tampa.
09:52:40 Because what they do -- and I have this for you.
09:52:42 And you have seen this before.
09:52:48 This is the filtering tool, the master one, that shows
09:52:59 all 365 things you can do as a green local government.
09:53:02 But the way that that is set up is that it lists
09:53:07 everything that you can possibly do.
09:53:09 And they have point associated with it.
09:53:13 The first thing that has to happen when you are
09:53:15 submitting this you turn the document in, and now we
09:53:18 are in the process of identifying which of each of
09:53:20 these particular items actually can be applied to the
09:53:22 City of Tampa.
09:53:30 The City of Tampa does not have a power plant like the
09:53:33 city of Gainesville, so the points you would normally
09:53:35 get for that, one, you can't get them because it's
09:53:37 impossible for you to get them, but they don't count
09:53:39 that against you.
09:53:40 They remove that from your potential total of how they

09:53:43 evaluate you.
09:53:44 The same with certain agricultural kinds of
09:53:46 activities.
09:53:46 We don't have agricultural farming and ranching as
09:53:49 part of what the City of Tampa does.
09:53:51 Hillsborough County certainly does.
09:53:53 But that kind of thing, they don't count really
09:53:56 against us.
09:53:57 Other kinds of things that they have.
09:53:59 So right now we are in the process of negotiating, arm
09:54:04 wrestling which of these things actually apply to the
09:54:07 City of Tampa.
09:54:08 Once you establish that number, and what actually
09:54:10 applied, you then submit the various things that we
09:54:14 have done, that we are doing, that we have policies in
09:54:18 place to do, our codes in place to do, and then they
09:54:21 take that and they evaluate the total number of points
09:54:24 against what our total possible is.
09:54:27 And that's where we are right now.
09:54:29 We feel very confident, feel highly confident, in
09:54:34 what's going to happen when they get done evaluating.
09:54:38 I feel very confident we will be certified green, on

09:54:41 green local government, far ahead of the original
09:54:44 commitment in the 2010.
09:54:47 We are going to beat that deadline by months and
09:54:51 months and months.
09:54:53 Maybe a year.
09:54:55 We are in very good shape when that's coming up.
09:54:58 But this gives you an idea, and as you read some of
09:55:01 these you will see where Tampa can't really do that.
09:55:05 So that's how the program works.
09:55:07 That's where worry right now with this.
09:55:09 Like I say, I feel very confident that we are going to
09:55:11 have a very positive outcome in the very near future,
09:55:14 and I am delighted to report back to you in one of my
09:55:17 special reports in the upcoming months or so to see
09:55:19 how that works out.
09:55:22 And I would be remiss if I didn't at least acknowledge
09:55:25 the great work from one of my colleagues, Lauralee,
09:55:29 who has been dogged in this thing working together
09:55:34 working with our evaluator, and we will continue to do
09:55:37 that until we have our certification in place.
09:55:43 Speaking very fast, I can answer whatever questions
09:55:45 you may have.

09:55:45 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a bunch of questions.
09:55:48 Are you done?
09:55:48 Because I wanted to let you finish.
09:55:50 >>> I think I am, yes.
09:55:52 >>MARY MULHERN: First of all, this is incredible.
09:55:58 I'm glad you shared this with us, the green local
09:56:00 government standards.
09:56:04 What are these initials on the three right columns
09:56:07 mean, MMP, MAP?
09:56:10 >> It's maximum points possible on the first column.
09:56:13 In the second column -- and that's a total number of
09:56:17 points you can get in that column as identified by the
09:56:20 Florida gren building coalition.
09:56:22 And it's a good question.
09:56:23 In the second column where it says MAP, that's maximum
09:56:27 achievable points.
09:56:28 Which means if they said that -- the first one, says
09:56:38 write or rewrite statements and environmental
09:56:41 commitment.
09:56:41 If you have that, you can possibly achieve two points.
09:56:44 And then as you start to GOP through, it says how many
09:56:48 you did achieve -- or that it would count against you.

09:56:51 They would fill in that with two so you could do that.
09:56:53 Then the thing on the end, which says points achieved,
09:56:57 or -- it's the points that you actually achieve that
09:57:00 the city government actually achieves.
09:57:02 So ideally, and it would be 222 across the board.
09:57:06 It's when he would don't achieve on the last column
09:57:08 that we are missing.
09:57:10 >> You were explaining that to me.
09:57:12 So the middle column says --
09:57:15 >>> The middle column is the key, because --
09:57:21 >> So the first column you can't necessarily -- this
09:57:23 city can't necessarily --
09:57:25 >>> Reach all of those things.
09:57:26 And that's a good point, Councilwoman, because that is
09:57:29 exactly where we are right now.
09:57:32 We are negotiating working with the Florida green
09:57:35 building, our evaluator to find out exactly what our
09:57:39 maximum achievable points are.
09:57:40 And once we have that firmly established, then we can
09:57:43 start validating the various things that we have done.
09:57:48 >>MARY MULHERN: This was just really, really
09:57:50 impressive what you are doing.

09:57:51 And, you know, I really think that it's amazing that
09:57:57 you, and I don't know how many people you have
09:58:00 dedicated to green building.
09:58:04 >>> We spread it around.
09:58:06 Everybody is chipping in a little bit.
09:58:07 >> But I wish that you could have -- the city had a
09:58:12 more dedicated, more people to work for you, more
09:58:18 support for you.
09:58:19 It's a huge amount of, you know, looking at this,
09:58:23 there's so much you can possibly do, it's hard to even
09:58:26 figure out what you should be doing.
09:58:29 I had a few specific questions.
09:58:34 Oh, page one about the NFL environmental programs.
09:58:39 >>> Oh, I didn't talk about that.
09:58:40 >> What are we doing?
09:58:42 Does it have to do with the Super Bowl?
09:58:44 >>> Yes.
09:58:45 The NFL, again, it's a corporation that is very
09:58:49 cognizant of what's going on in the planet.
09:58:51 So they do a whole environmental program from
09:58:53 recycling to food that is not used at some of their
09:58:56 parties and stuff like that, and the various ability,

09:59:00 kitchens, the blankets, the shirts that aren't sold,
09:59:03 they donate those, recycle a lot of books, a huge
09:59:09 recycling effort.
09:59:10 Not just the standard bottles, cans and plastics but
09:59:12 everything that can be reused in the broadest sense of
09:59:15 the term.
09:59:16 You know, they are doing that.
09:59:17 They have that very well.
09:59:19 What this program is about, the forestry program, is
09:59:24 there's kind of two aspects of it.
09:59:25 They do an aspect where they plant trees, you know,
09:59:29 larger trees, and they have a bit of a public
09:59:31 relations thing that talks about why trees are
09:59:33 important, why they are doing this, how they are going
09:59:36 about doing it.
09:59:37 We have identified with them a site along the
09:59:39 riverwalk.
09:59:39 I think it's either USF or MacDill riverwalk where
09:59:45 they are going to talk about those kinds of things,
09:59:47 work that in conjunction with the history museum as
09:59:49 well if that's possible.
09:59:50 A second part of what we are participating, and we

09:59:53 have already contacted the school board, is that
09:59:55 there's two sites on school where they would do the
09:59:57 very same thing with the school children and become a
10:00:00 very educational kind of thing, and it's in Arizona.
10:00:07 When the Super Bowl was in Arizona they did it at the
10:00:09 schools and they had a Native American, I forget what
10:00:12 tribe it was, but he came, and he was a SHAman and did
10:00:18 he a ceremony.
10:00:19 And there's a huge population in school that are
10:00:21 Native Americans, and the kids that were not they were
10:00:23 very impressed how all this happened and they put
10:00:26 together a beautiful program.
10:00:27 And I was remiss in not getting this video for you to
10:00:31 look at because it's very, very impressive.
10:00:33 We are imagining a very similar thing to take place
10:00:36 both at our school and around the riverwalk.
10:00:38 The second part of what they are doing, it's a refor
10:00:42 he istation program.
10:00:43 This is where they get literally thousands of sapling
10:00:48 and they'll find a location where they can plant those
10:00:50 things.
10:00:51 They have to have a lot of maintenance and care.

10:00:54 It's a very small tree.
10:00:55 That type of a for he istation planting doesn't work
10:00:58 real well in a school because they are only this big,
10:01:01 and people make a mistake and they just cut them.
10:01:04 And that's happened to them in the past.
10:01:06 So they are like new.
10:01:08 It's going to have to be a little bit isolated.
10:01:11 Right now they haven't decided exactly the area but
10:01:13 it's going to be in the Tampa Bay area, and I figure
10:01:16 in the Tampa Bay area, whether it's in Tampa or Safety
10:01:18 Harbor doesn't make a difference.
10:01:20 So I think within the Hillsborough watershed area
10:01:24 which is going to benefit us, and probably plant a
10:01:27 couple thousand trees, the saplings, and a big
10:01:31 volunteer program, they are working with the United
10:01:34 States forestry service to pull this program off.
10:01:37 Our participation is a lot more of the ceremonial
10:01:39 stuff but it's very important because brings a lot of
10:01:41 attention to what the importance of trees are.
10:01:44 So that's what we are doing there.
10:01:45 Thank you for reminding me of that.
10:01:47 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a general comment, I guess

10:01:53 question, because it looks like there's -- well,
10:01:58 there's several tiers.
10:02:00 But one thing you talk about a lot is really education
10:02:04 and outreach for the public.
10:02:06 Which is great.
10:02:08 And I would like to see, as I was telling you
10:02:12 recently, if we had somebody dedicated to that portion
10:02:20 of this, who could be looking for grants for that, and
10:02:26 then that could pay for the P.R. and marketing, and,
10:02:31 you know, you were talking about the video production
10:02:33 and all of that.
10:02:35 That's one part.
10:02:38 But the thing that I think that we can do as council,
10:02:44 and more so you can do as administration, if you are
10:02:48 allowed to -- and I know you have to get your baseline
10:02:54 thing done, and your points, so you can be certified
10:02:57 so you can start to measure from that baseline.
10:02:59 But I really feel like what's missing from this is
10:03:09 goals and standards and everything, like we are
10:03:11 planting trees.
10:03:11 How many trees are we going to plant?
10:03:13 We are going to reduce our use of electricity and

10:03:17 lighting.
10:03:17 By how much?
10:03:22 I think that it's all great to talk about and plan for
10:03:25 education.
10:03:26 But we have to have a way to implement that.
10:03:29 And we need to set some standards.
10:03:32 And one thing I know you were there at the Florida
10:03:37 League of Cities when they had the global program that
10:03:41 one morning.
10:03:42 And one of the things that Gainesville and Tallahassee
10:03:46 were doing with challenging each other to see how
10:03:50 much -- I think it was to reduce their carbon
10:03:54 footprint.
10:03:56 So I think that would be a great P.R. thing if we did
10:03:59 that with St. Pete, and if we could challenge each
10:04:02 other.
10:04:03 Because I feel like this is just an incredible amount
10:04:06 of work that everyone is doing.
10:04:08 But we need to have, you know, some goals set.
10:04:13 On everything.
10:04:13 And, you know, you could go down everything on this
10:04:16 list, and do that.

10:04:17 But, you know, you could also just say overall, maybe
10:04:20 each department has to figure out a way to re-do
10:04:29 whatever it is, stormwater, or water, reduce the
10:04:32 amount of water.
10:04:34 People are using more.
10:04:36 And reduce.
10:04:38 And the other thing I'm curious about -- because this
10:04:40 is something maybe we could get a report from Chief
10:04:43 Hogue -- but I know that they were looking at reducing
10:04:48 their fuel use, and having some, I think, a for people
10:04:55 for the officers, and fleet use, and how much we are
10:04:59 spending on fuel, and all those kinds of things.
10:05:03 So I think there's just so much here.
10:05:06 And I think you are doing a fantastic job.
10:05:09 I just would like to see maybe the next time we get a
10:05:12 report, you know, start to have some goals for each.
10:05:20 And reduce the carbon input or reduce the use of
10:05:23 energy, or increase the recycling or whatever those
10:05:27 things are.
10:05:28 Just some number.
10:05:29 >>> And I believe once we get into the gas emission
10:05:36 baseline that probably -- not probably, without

10:05:38 question, they are going to say, okay, here is the
10:05:40 real numbers of how many tonnage of carbon you put in
10:05:44 the environment.
10:05:45 This is what you have to reduce.
10:05:47 And they will identify, you know, where those
10:05:49 reductions can come from.
10:05:51 And then that's what you do southbound you set the
10:05:52 standards and the goals and the metrics from there.
10:05:55 >>MARY MULHERN: And then the on the thing you were
10:05:57 talking about how these people want to help put a lot
10:05:59 of them -- which is only reasonable, but if you look
10:06:05 at it from the standpoint of, okay, every contractor
10:06:09 who wants to help with you something specific, they
10:06:13 show you, you pay them according to how much money
10:06:16 they are going to save you in efficiency, so there may
10:06:22 be an upfront cost, but in the end you will be saving
10:06:31 what we are spending in the city.
10:06:32 And I think a very strong feeling, that we are going
10:06:36 to focus on two things, what we can do, policywise in
10:06:40 the city, and in order to reduce our carbon output,
10:06:46 and the other thing is the education for the public,
10:06:49 and I think that's another area where you get what you

10:06:51 pay for.
10:06:53 And if we don't have people who can do this, you know,
10:06:57 major effort at education, we need to figure out a way
10:07:04 to contract with somebody to do that and it will end
10:07:08 up paying for itself.
10:07:12 >>> I'm sorry, I didn't mean to not look.
10:07:15 I was writing.
10:07:16 >> That's okay.
10:07:18 Thank you so much.
10:07:18 This is fantastic.
10:07:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have been waying very patiently.
10:07:24 Mr. Snell, I am going to hold you responsible as a
10:07:27 green officer to set your own standard, to retrofit
10:07:31 your own house, to challenge others, like I'm going to
10:07:34 challenge all of you today.
10:07:36 I challenge all in this room today to monitor your
10:07:40 electric use, to monitor your water, and I'm not going
10:07:44 to ask for anyone to receive and file any document,
10:07:47 but I am going to submit to the clerk's office my last
10:07:51 nine months of electric use and my last nine months of
10:07:55 water use.
10:07:56 And I challenge the whole city to meet an objective

10:08:02 like I have to reduce all of what we talked about this
10:08:05 morning, or really all of what you talked about and
10:08:08 certain council members, because I have been very
10:08:10 quietly here just listening.
10:08:12 I have not only retrofitted my house, but I'm in the
10:08:14 process of retrofitting whatever properties I own,
10:08:18 whatever my house has, they will have within the next
10:08:22 30 days.
10:08:23 So if I go out tomorrow or the next day and put a
10:08:30 solar cell up on the roof, they will have that in due
10:08:32 time, also.
10:08:33 So what I'm saying is, I appreciate you coming here.
10:08:37 I appreciate everything that's been said by council
10:08:39 members.
10:08:40 But I would like to challenge all of you to meet the
10:08:43 objectives that we set for others, like we have set
10:08:46 for the city.
10:08:49 I ask all, including the office next to us and the
10:08:54 other building, all department heads, to be cognizant
10:08:56 of the fact that if we are doing this, then we expect
10:09:00 them to do the same thing.
10:09:01 They have got to be leaders so that others can follow.

10:09:03 So what I am saying is I am going to turn it in
10:09:05 without any requests.
10:09:06 If anybody would wish to look at it, here it is, nine
10:09:10 months, October, November, December, because those
10:09:13 months have not yet been calculated because they
10:09:16 haven't been reached yet.
10:09:18 But I urge you all to do exactly what Mr. Snelling is
10:09:22 doing, to benefit not only the City of Tampa, but the
10:09:26 planet as a whole.
10:09:28 Thank you.
10:09:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
10:09:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
10:09:32 Thom, in regard to the Florida green standard, those
10:09:39 pages, I have a few comments and questions.
10:09:40 In the middle of the page A-6-C, says enact green
10:09:44 landscaping ordinance for local government building.
10:09:46 You know, we adopted our green ordinance this past
10:09:49 year, and I think it's a good start.
10:09:53 But in addition to us, you know, asking the
10:09:57 administration, asking you, what are you doing, what
10:10:00 are you doing, what are you doing?
10:10:03 I think it's important also to know what more we can

10:10:05 do in terms of tweaking the twisting ordinances or
10:10:11 adopting new ordinances that can continue this effort.
10:10:15 And I see this one here says enact green landscaping
10:10:18 ordinance for local government buildings.
10:10:21 We have a lot of grass that we spend a lot of money
10:10:28 and energy and staff time mowing, and we also hire
10:10:34 outside folks to mow those grasses, and the green team
10:10:40 mows and hires lots of companies to mow grass, and
10:10:44 water, a lot of grass, on medians and other places.
10:10:49 And I'm not saying we need to get rid of green space
10:10:52 obviously.
10:10:52 But what I'm thinking is, you know, I think we need to
10:10:55 develop a plan to convert some of that St. Augustine
10:11:00 grass, and what have you, over to, you know, just
10:11:06 better ecofriendly turf cover and that sort of thing.
10:11:11 So I don't know, it might be something that we might
10:11:16 want to consider as an ordinance that would transition
10:11:20 all of that grass, you know, into something else over
10:11:24 a period of time.
10:11:26 So let's keep talking about that.
10:11:31 And I'll look to hear from you on that.
10:11:33 What are you reporting, every six months or so?

10:11:36 >> I'm supposed to have an annual report once a year.
10:11:39 But as things are developing, various projects are
10:11:42 coming to fruition.
10:11:43 I'm obviously going to come back and talk to you once
10:11:47 we have an answer on the certification program.
10:11:50 The various projects that this administration is
10:11:53 working on to come back and talk project-specific, it
10:11:56 will probably be more often, yes.
10:11:58 >> On the second page, says conduct a green buildings
10:12:06 awards program which I think is a neat idea.
10:12:08 But like this morning we had police Officer of the
10:12:10 Month and fireman of the quarter.
10:12:12 I think we should try and develop an awards program
10:12:15 and use this opportunity and this chamber maybe on an
10:12:20 annual basis, just to give an award or two, to the
10:12:24 community as to who is building a good project, that
10:12:29 we should recognize, and put on television here and
10:12:32 give a little commendation.
10:12:34 And also what department.
10:12:35 We should have a competition within departments, what
10:12:39 department or what division is doing a great, now,
10:12:42 bang-up job that we should recognize.

10:12:46 >> Water.
10:12:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Water department.
10:12:49 But, now, and every year, obviously, we could
10:12:52 recognize a different group, and identify some of the
10:12:56 things they have done, you know, maybe the mayor and
10:13:00 council can combine on that recognition.
10:13:04 And today I wanted to mention was on the last page,
10:13:08 S-3-A, plus use recycle billing envelopes.
10:13:16 And we do a lot of billing in our utilities
10:13:19 department.
10:13:20 I don't know how many bills go out a month.
10:13:24 Probably 50,000 or 100,000 or something.
10:13:28 And that's a lot of paper and a lot of energy, you
10:13:31 know, and a lot of money to send out bills.
10:13:34 Now we are gearing more toward online stuff, you know,
10:13:37 many of us would do online banking and online bill
10:13:43 paying.
10:13:43 So I'm wondering has that department shifted over at
10:13:48 all to online billing and online bill paying, where we
10:13:53 can eliminate, start eliminating that paper?
10:13:58 >> I know that the city has done a lot of things to
10:14:00 eliminate the use of paper, payroll, utility and

10:14:07 stuff.
10:14:07 I know that internal mail you reuse those envelopes
10:14:10 over and over and over.
10:14:11 And you get a list.
10:14:12 I'm sure council has seen some of those.
10:14:14 This particular item, when we were looking into it,
10:14:17 it's actually we have little glass or little window in
10:14:21 it that talks about reusing those.
10:14:23 It's a very specific item.
10:14:24 Your point is well taken.
10:14:25 >> This just triggered a different item.
10:14:28 Which would be, you know, our billing people -- and
10:14:33 obviously optional.
10:14:34 A lot of people would never go to online banking.
10:14:36 We don't want to make them go to online banking or
10:14:40 online bill paying.
10:14:41 But for people who are already doing it, who could
10:14:43 care less about getting that mailed bill, we could
10:14:48 have an option.
10:14:49 Maybe we could even have an incentive.
10:14:52 We'll give you five dollars off of your -- you know,
10:14:55 because we save on postage obviously.

10:14:57 So we could give an incentive perhaps, and we'll say,
10:15:01 if you go to online bill paying for your utility
10:15:04 bills, you know, could you save five dollars a year,
10:15:08 blah-blah-blah, whatever.
10:15:10 So talk to those guys.
10:15:11 Let us know what they say.
10:15:14 Guys and women.
10:15:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to follow up.
10:15:20 I think that's a great idea, John, for recognizing
10:15:24 departments for what they are doing.
10:15:25 And we have some people who I think are going to
10:15:28 hopefully speak who had also proposed that we do an
10:15:33 award, or a certification program for you wrote this
10:15:40 ordinance for the green building, but what we don't
10:15:42 have standards for are green practices in businesses.
10:15:47 So I think that would ab really good incentive
10:15:50 program.
10:15:51 You could be certified by the city and on the web site
10:15:55 and get an award, you know, once a year there could be
10:15:58 different categories.
10:15:59 And it could include city departments, but also
10:16:03 include people in the community that are doing

10:16:06 different things.
10:16:08 And more people who are offering to help, and I think
10:16:13 just to be good citizens, so hopefully they are going
10:16:17 to talk about that.
10:16:20 Something else you said.
10:16:26 What was the other thing?
10:16:27 I can't remember.
10:16:28 Maybe it will come to me.
10:16:29 But I think that certification, and recognition, could
10:16:35 really help us motivate people.
10:16:40 >>THOM SNELLING: We are featuring some of the local
10:16:43 green buildings on our web site right now, kind of
10:16:45 expanding that as part of that.
10:16:46 >> I think that's great.
10:16:48 If we could have like a mayor's green ribbon or
10:16:50 something every year, that's great.
10:16:53 And I remembered what John brought up.
10:16:56 When he's talking about sort of the -- what individual
10:17:00 departments like I.T. or, you know, utilities by going
10:17:04 to using electronic instead of mail, you know, maybe
10:17:09 that's what we need for setting standards, is these
10:17:13 individual departments to come up with ways, okay, we

10:17:19 are going to do this and we can save this much, or
10:17:23 reduce this much waste, or whatever it is, and maybe,
10:17:27 you know, require each department to set some goals
10:17:30 for themselves.
10:17:35 I don't know if you are already doing that.
10:17:37 But it might be a good way to get buy-in from some
10:17:41 people and to also not -- I don't mean to be telling
10:17:44 people what to do or setting standards, that we set
10:17:48 our own standards.
10:17:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions?
10:17:53 We now go to the public.
10:17:55 Anyone in the public like to speak on item number 2,
10:17:57 the green building?
10:17:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Three minutes?
10:18:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, three minutes per person.
10:18:09 >>> Jack deVRAKA.
10:18:14 I think Thom did a great job.
10:18:16 I didn't know too much about what they were doing
10:18:18 because obviously not very public knowledge so much.
10:18:21 I'm glad you guys called this meeting, because for the
10:18:24 public to know this, and how much the city is doing is
10:18:28 outstanding.

10:18:28 I'm a member of the board of the USGBC now, and done a
10:18:33 lot of work with the emerging green builders that Thom
10:18:36 referenced.
10:18:37 And he's going to be on our panel later this month, or
10:18:39 actually middle of next month, which I would encourage
10:18:42 you guys to come see us.
10:18:44 It's going to be at the Marshall center at USF.
10:18:46 Thom is on the panel.
10:18:47 And a lot of great speakers.
10:18:50 So I actually want to talk about what councilman
10:18:53 Mulhern referenced earlier about these green
10:18:59 certifications.
10:19:01 USGBC, I have been kind of bouncing around with the
10:19:04 Executive Director, and, you know, we have been
10:19:06 working on a couple of associates, and this is not a
10:19:11 very cost prohibitive type program.
10:19:15 Our goal really is to -- it's awareness, it's
10:19:18 exposure, it's helping businesses reduce our operating
10:19:21 costs.
10:19:21 Ultimately, if you have them reduce their operating
10:19:24 cost, then hopefully it creates jobs, it brings more
10:19:28 to the bottom line, you know, the only reason -- I

10:19:33 shouldn't say the only reason.
10:19:34 I don't want to be cynical but the biggest reason for
10:19:37 doing this is to, you know, create jobs, create
10:19:41 profits for themselves.
10:19:43 And then secondarily, of course, it's the benefit to
10:19:46 the planet, to the people.
10:19:49 So our program really, what we are proposing, what we
10:19:53 helped kind of start to develop, is really not
10:19:57 something that's going to cost the business a whole
10:19:58 lot of money.
10:19:59 As Thom actually talked about there's a lot of things
10:20:02 that we can do that are very simple.
10:20:04 I think Councilwoman Saul-Sena said light bulbs,
10:20:07 right?
10:20:08 We talk about light bulbs.
10:20:09 It's always the common phrase, the thing we all know
10:20:13 pretty much, but it is a simple thing.
10:20:16 And I think I've done that in my own house.
10:20:19 And it's reduced my energy.
10:20:23 I don't know, it's not like I measured it but it's
10:20:26 definitely they last longer, and so I digress.
10:20:33 Our program really would be very simple steps for

10:20:37 businesses to take to reduce their energy consumption.
10:20:41 And in an effort to promote job growth, you know, and
10:20:45 increase the bottom line.
10:20:47 I want to just pull out an article, just published
10:20:52 recently, university of California Berkeley, that was
10:20:56 from an economist.
10:20:57 And just read it this week.
10:21:00 It was kind of ironic because I was planning to come
10:21:03 here and just flipping through stuff, and pretty much
10:21:05 states an economist did this in California and found
10:21:08 that their emotion standards in California, because
10:21:10 they have been so strict, have actually produced 1.5
10:21:14 million jobs in the last 20 years.
10:21:16 And it's increased payrolls by $45 billion, and $56
10:21:20 billion in energy savings.
10:21:22 That went towards other consumer spending.
10:21:26 And what are we talking about here?
10:21:29 Really, we are not going to be talking those numbers.
10:21:32 California is a huge state and we are talking about
10:21:33 the Tampa Bay area.
10:21:34 But anything that we can do that's simple.
10:21:38 Because right now it not the time to tell businesses

10:21:41 you have to, you know, spend all this money.
10:21:45 (Bell sounds).
10:21:45 Let me just finish with the fact that do something
10:21:48 business, the business can certify -- I mean the city
10:21:52 can certify the business and the business can move
10:21:54 forward.
10:21:55 And make money.
10:21:56 It's what we all want, right?
10:21:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:21:59 Anyone else like to speak?
10:22:04 Mr. Snelling, anything else?
10:22:05 That's it?
10:22:06 Do you have anything else you want to say to wrap up?
10:22:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to thank you for the great
10:22:14 start.
10:22:14 It's really impressive.
10:22:16 I think you should take a volunteer to coordinate all
10:22:19 your volunteers.
10:22:20 So a lot of people who are in the job market now, who
10:22:24 have a little time on their hands.
10:22:25 And you are so busy, you don't have time to coordinate
10:22:28 volunteers which is like a full-time job.

10:22:31 So get a volunteer to coordinate the volunteers and
10:22:34 send them out.
10:22:35 I look forward to -- this is October, November,
10:22:37 December, January.
10:22:38 I look forward to our next quarterly report because I
10:22:40 know it will be great.
10:22:41 >>THOM SNELLING: No, I don't have anything else.
10:22:45 You have my e-mail.
10:22:46 You have my phone.
10:22:46 You know where I I live.
10:22:48 So if you have questions, or you rib something, you
10:22:52 can ask for whatever.
10:22:54 By all means do so.
10:22:55 And thank you, council.
10:22:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions from council members?
10:23:02 We have some special guests back there.
10:23:04 The mayor's youth corps.
10:23:07 Do you have a spokesperson?
10:23:08 Do you want to say something, introduce yourselves?
10:23:14 >>> Good morning, council.
10:23:19 My name is Stephani KERR.
10:23:21 I'm a Jr. at Hillsborough high school and a member of

10:23:24 the class of 2008 and we would all like to say that we
10:23:28 are happy to be here this morning.
10:23:29 >>GWEN MILLER: We would like everybody to stand so you
10:23:32 can be seen on TV.
10:23:34 Stand up.
10:23:35 We are very happy to have you here.
10:23:37 [ Applause ]
10:23:37 Now I would like to recognize Mr. Dingfelder.
10:23:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: (ringing bell).
10:23:51 >>> More cowbells.
10:23:54 >> We just want everybody in St. Petersburg to know,
10:23:57 all across the bay area, I think this is like a
10:24:06 Mohawk, isn't it? I went to the game last night, and
10:24:09 didn't turn out so good, but we all know they are
10:24:11 going to win tonight, right?
10:24:14 (ringing cowbell)
10:24:17 It was very exciting to have the World Series here in
10:24:20 the Tampa Bay area.
10:24:21 And we know we are going to be world champs by next
10:24:24 week.
10:24:25 Go Rays.
10:24:28 (ringing cowbell).

10:24:30 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to go to item number 3.
10:24:32 Comprehensive -- can we go?
10:24:52 We have a motion and second to close item number 2.
10:24:54 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
10:24:55 Opposed?
10:24:57 >>> Land Development Coordination.
10:24:58 Here to give you a status report on the comprehensive
10:25:01 plan and the process for final adoption.
10:25:04 Remember, July 24th was a transmittal hearing for
10:25:07 the comprehensive plan.
10:25:08 The plan was transmitted to the Florida department of
10:25:10 community affairs for review.
10:25:15 The way the process works, the comprehensive plans are
10:25:17 transmitted to the state, and Florida department of
10:25:20 community affairs reviews comprehensive plans for
10:25:22 compliance within state law and rules.
10:25:24 They have 60 days to conduct their review, and to
10:25:28 issue a report back to the local government.
10:25:30 That report is called Objections, Recommendations and
10:25:33 Comment report.
10:25:34 We call it ORC report for short.
10:25:36 But it's their review of comprehensive plans in

10:25:39 relationship to state statutes, state rules.
10:25:43 So it's about how well our comp plan complies with the
10:25:47 procedures in the comprehensive plan and the
10:25:49 requirements of state law.
10:25:53 The report was issued on October 10th.
10:25:54 So under a few weeks ago.
10:25:57 We received it.
10:25:59 It was late Friday arch so we really didn't have a
10:26:01 chance to look at it.
10:26:03 We'll begin looking at it until October 13th.
10:26:06 We have sent the ORC report to city staff, all the
10:26:11 essential departments that might be affected.
10:26:13 There were 23 objections by the state.
10:26:16 We have sent those to various city staff and the
10:26:19 Planning Commission staff and asked them to begin
10:26:21 assessing what those objections, what the state's
10:26:24 comments were, and what we needed to do to begin
10:26:26 responding to those comments.
10:26:30 The city has 120 days in which to prepare a response,
10:26:33 and then to adopt our comprehensive plan.
10:26:35 So it was sent to us on October 10th.
10:26:39 Would be February 10th when we have to finally

10:26:41 adopt our comprehensive plan.
10:26:44 Because of our two adoption hearings, we have
10:26:47 tentatively going to be scheduling our first adoption
10:26:49 hearing on January 8th.
10:26:53 Based on that schedule we will be preparing a draft of
10:26:55 the response of the ORC report in December, and get
10:27:01 that to you well in advance of that public hearing.
10:27:04 We are also going to be scheduling individual
10:27:08 briefings with each of you, be able to go over each of
10:27:11 the items in the ORC report, and how we feel that is
10:27:16 the best way for the city to respond to those
10:27:19 objections.
10:27:22 At the same time, we are going to be -- all the
10:27:25 stakeholders who provided comments to us during the
10:27:28 transmittal, we are going to be sending them the ORC
10:27:32 report and providing that information on the Land
10:27:34 Development Coordination web page.
10:27:36 So as we draft a response, and work with DCA, we will
10:27:42 be keeping all those participants informed along the
10:27:44 way, maybe make sure they understand what is required
10:27:46 of us and where we are going with the response.
10:27:50 We are going to be doing individual briefings with

10:27:52 each of you, and the draft response will be prepared
10:27:54 in December.
10:27:58 If there's any questions, I will be happy to answer.
10:28:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
10:28:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
10:28:04 Randy, thanks for the huge undertaking of the whole
10:28:08 comp plan update.
10:28:11 Is the O RRC report online?
10:28:17 >>> It will be online.
10:28:18 We requested it be posted.
10:28:19 We put it in.
10:28:20 It just has to get posted.
10:28:22 It will be on the land development westbound page.
10:28:25 >> Can you provide it to us electronically?
10:28:28 >>> We can provide you a link or the actual ORC
10:28:31 report.
10:28:31 >> Would you go ahead and send us electronically a
10:28:35 copy of what's available right now?
10:28:41 I have a little bit of concern.
10:28:44 When we were doing the original adoption, I can't
10:28:46 remember the specific items, but I remember us -- and
10:28:50 Julia, you are going to remember this, too -- us

10:28:53 saying, well, we can tweak it when we do the final
10:28:57 adoption.
10:28:58 And I don't remember what the tweak items were at this
10:29:00 point.
10:29:01 It's been a few months.
10:29:02 But I just want to make sure that we recall what those
10:29:06 tweak items were, and that we have an active plan to
10:29:09 in fact tweak them.
10:29:11 >>> That's one of the reasons contacting the
10:29:16 stakeholders, letting them know the ORC report has
10:29:19 been released and offering opportunities to meet with
10:29:21 them and follow up.
10:29:22 We did meet this past week with the T.H.A.N., the
10:29:28 zoning subcommittee meetings, to surface some of the
10:29:31 issues that they brought.
10:29:32 Again, our response in working with them is to items
10:29:38 that are related to the response to the ORC report, we
10:29:41 can easily change and work through those.
10:29:43 Some of those questions are code related that we know
10:29:48 we can change as part of the Land Development Code and
10:29:50 those things we can't work in a cycle processed as
10:29:53 part of the first cycled plan amendment.

10:29:55 >> I have seen ORC reports in the past and some of
10:29:58 them are very harsh, basically he would don't like
10:30:01 this comp plan, you know, and you have got a lot of
10:30:04 work to do, compared to some that are just as I said
10:30:06 before just sort of tweaking some minor things.
10:30:09 You have seen the ORC report now.
10:30:11 You have had a week to look at it.
10:30:13 How would you characterize this ORC report from
10:30:16 Tallahassee?
10:30:17 >> On the basis of the comp plan updates, this is
10:30:22 probably the least cumbersome, in the last 20 years.
10:30:29 >> Least critical perhaps?
10:30:32 >>> It's actually very positive in terms of DCA's view
10:30:36 of the comp plan, in total and the objectives and the
10:30:40 goals that you are trying to achieve.
10:30:42 The objection was basically more about clarification
10:30:45 and pieces of information that they thought we needed
10:30:48 to provide to them.
10:30:49 So I think our response is more about explanation, and
10:30:52 probably providing more information.
10:30:54 It will probably boil down to probably a half a dozen
10:30:57 key issues that we are probably going to take most of

10:31:00 our time to work through.
10:31:01 But by and large, it's a positive ORC report from the
10:31:04 state than those in the past.
10:31:08 >>MARY MULHERN: I think I was just going to ask for
10:31:10 the same thing as John.
10:31:12 That we get the ORC report e-mailed to us.
10:31:17 And if it's the same thing.
10:31:22 Are the objections in the report or a list of
10:31:25 objections?
10:31:26 >>> The way the state will prepare that report, it is
10:31:29 one objection, you know, explain what their objection
10:31:31 is, and the basis, statutorily, and then they provide
10:31:36 their recommendation, which suggests to local
10:31:42 government how to remediator fix the problem.
10:31:44 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, yeah, as soon as we can get
10:31:47 copies of that, that would be great.
10:31:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: How come you didn't bring it to us
10:31:51 today, or yesterday?
10:31:52 Because you have it since the beginning of the week.
10:31:54 >>> Well, it's a fairly itemized report.
10:31:58 And part of it subpoena we can transmit to you after
10:32:01 today's meeting.

10:32:03 It's really the assessment of the city departments
10:32:07 that have the key parts of the input.
10:32:09 Because when you read it, it's just the state's
10:32:11 opinion.
10:32:11 The question is, is it accurate at this point in time?
10:32:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What I heard is that there are two
10:32:20 things than we didn't include in our plan, because
10:32:22 they are relatively new requirements by the state.
10:32:25 So it's not that he would did anything wrong, it's
10:32:27 just that we didn't include these two things.
10:32:29 One was our addressing affordable housing.
10:32:32 And the other is our addressing being green, being
10:32:36 environmentally conscientious, and what specific
10:32:40 things are we doing as a city.
10:32:43 Well, this is kind of good timing, because we just
10:32:46 heard from Mr. Snelling that we are doing some
10:32:50 environmentally progressive things.
10:32:51 Affordability question, or what specifically is the
10:32:54 city initiating to address affordable housing, is
10:32:57 something that we discussed on council, and we haven't
10:33:00 codified, perhaps, in our now comp plan, and we
10:33:03 haven't identified how we are going to accomplish

10:33:05 this.
10:33:06 I honestly think this is a case where the state is
10:33:10 forcing us to do something we should be doing.
10:33:13 And I'm actually pleased that even though it's going
10:33:16 to be tough to figure out, I think it's something that
10:33:18 we do need to do as a conscientious community to
10:33:21 figure out what we are going to do in terms of
10:33:23 affordable housing.
10:33:24 And those are things that I think merit conversation.
10:33:30 So it sounded as if we are going to get something back
10:33:33 in January, the city's response to the voice that we
10:33:39 have, the issues that we set aside that we need to
10:33:42 address.
10:33:43 I think that council needs to set aside some time for
10:33:45 public conversation, or at least when it comes back,
10:33:49 enough time to really thoroughly discuss how we are
10:33:52 going to address those needs.
10:33:56 >> I think if you give the staff an opportunity to
10:34:00 review those comments from the state, because some of
10:34:02 them, I think, in our initial review, we feel we have
10:34:05 addressed them in the plan.
10:34:07 So we have to go back and look at the plan and look at

10:34:09 what we are doing in relationship to the review to see
10:34:14 which issues would merit that discussion, which ones
10:34:17 have already we feel we have addressed.
10:34:21 So maybe go through a little triage to identify the
10:34:26 ones we have to begin more of a policy discussion.
10:34:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman.
10:34:30 My big concern is, you mentioned the first week in
10:34:33 January.
10:34:33 Council will be off for two weeks at the end of
10:34:35 December.
10:34:35 I think that meeting is going to be pretty wild.
10:34:39 And I wonder if perhaps we need to have a discussion,
10:34:42 you know, on the Wednesday before Thursday or some
10:34:44 time to give us an opportunity to really, you know,
10:34:47 get our minds around this.
10:34:48 I don't want it to be the sort of situation where
10:34:51 Tuesday we are given the information, and it's a lot
10:34:56 to digest, and on Thursday we are asked to vote
10:34:59 without an adequate opportunity to really sort through
10:35:02 both the things that we set aside, as Mr. Dingfelder
10:35:05 identified, and the things than the state identified
10:35:08 that we need to make sure we are approving.

10:35:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: On your tentative schedule, you have
10:35:18 the -- the only thing you have for the evening meeting
10:35:20 of the 8th is related to the Tampa comprehensive
10:35:23 plan update.
10:35:23 That is the only thing that's on the agenda.
10:35:27 >>> And if I could, the public hearing schedule in
10:35:30 January, we plan to get the response in early December
10:35:33 so we do have adequate time for people to review, and
10:35:36 provide some comment.
10:35:38 So we hope to address your concerns.
10:35:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's great.
10:35:44 Thank you.
10:35:44 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to follow up on that.
10:35:47 Back when we were transmitting it, we talked about --
10:35:51 and I think it was somebody from T.H.A.N., or someone
10:35:55 from the public who asked if we could have -- what you
10:36:06 are saying is you think a lot of things are addressed
10:36:08 in there regarding affordable housing and green
10:36:11 initiatives, and that might help with answering those.
10:36:22 >>MICHELE OGILVIE: Planning Commission staff.
10:36:23 Planning Commission staff is working on addressing --
10:36:27 it was actually one of the comments from DCA, which

10:36:33 there is an index, and working on getting the index
10:36:36 integrated into the plan.
10:36:37 That will be transmitted to you for January the
10:36:39 8th, 2009.
10:36:45 >>MARY MULHERN: Thanks, Michelle.
10:36:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
10:36:48 Do you have anything else?
10:36:49 Anyone in the public want to speak on item number 3?
10:36:54 Item number 3, comprehensive plan?
10:36:56 Anybody that would like to speak on the comprehensive
10:36:58 plan?
10:37:00 Ms. Saul-Sena?
10:37:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to thank you, Mr. Goers, to
10:37:04 are your participation and the sustainable design
10:37:06 assessment team.
10:37:07 Because I think that can be the implementation of the
10:37:11 ideas and aspirations addressed in the plan.
10:37:14 And I think that your participation is a great linkage
10:37:18 between planning and actually getting neighborhoods to
10:37:20 develop plans and implement the ideas in them.
10:37:23 So I think that's great that you are involved.
10:37:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions?

10:37:28 We need to close the workshop.
10:37:29 >> Move to close.
10:37:31 >> Second.
10:37:32 (Motion carried)
10:37:38 We will be in recess until 11:00.
10:37:40 (Recess)

10:37:41 Tampa City Council continuation.
11:01:55 [Sounding gavel]
11:01:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called back to
11:01:57 order.
11:01:57 Roll call.
11:02:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
11:02:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
11:02:04 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
11:02:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
11:02:11 Do we need to reopen the meeting?
11:02:13 We have been gone for awhile.
11:02:14 It still open.
11:02:15 All right.
11:02:15 We go to item number 4.
11:02:21 TECO.
11:02:21 Who is going to speak first?
11:02:22 Mr. Fletcher.
11:02:25 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.
11:02:27 I'm just going to take a few minute and go over the
11:02:31 highlights of the franchise agreement that we have
11:02:38 tentatively reached with Tampa Electric Company.
11:02:40 I have met with many of you to go over it so I won't

11:02:42 be going into elaborate detail.
11:02:44 You have also received an executive summary of the
11:02:50 agreement that was distributed, I think probably a
11:02:52 couple of weeks ago now.
11:02:55 So basically, you all have received a franchise
11:03:00 agreement some months ago, and this agreement is
11:03:05 similar in many ways.
11:03:11 There are basically a continuation of the franchise
11:03:14 fee from the present level, 4.6%, thereabouts.
11:03:20 There is an option for the mayor to be able to
11:03:22 increase that to 6% in the future during the term of
11:03:26 the agreement.
11:03:28 The term of the agreement is 25 years.
11:03:32 We, the city, started from a negotiating position of
11:03:35 20 years.
11:03:36 Tampa Electric wanted 30 years.
11:03:38 We ended up with 25 years in the middle.
11:03:43 One of the additional features of the agreement is
11:03:45 that Tampa Electric will be providing some staff and
11:03:49 assistance in emergency response of something that has
11:03:53 been going on for some time.
11:03:55 But in this agreement we have memorialized that and

11:03:59 provided certain commitments in that regard.
11:04:01 And we think that's an important part of the
11:04:03 partnership between the city and Tampa Electric and
11:04:06 the ability to continue to have good emergency
11:04:10 response, planning, and preparedness.
11:04:16 And then a couple of the other additional issues that
11:04:21 we have gone through and reached compromise on, the
11:04:26 document that you have before you is in the form of an
11:04:29 ordinance.
11:04:30 We believe that under the city charter it's required
11:04:32 that the franchise agreement be adopted by ordinance.
11:04:36 So we would be asking after this workshop going
11:04:40 forward, that ultimately we have two hearings,
11:04:44 obviously will be adopting the ordinance.
11:04:48 There are provisions in here as well that refer to it
11:04:51 as being a contract.
11:04:53 Tampa Electric's preference was that it be a contract
11:04:55 rather than an ordinance.
11:04:57 We have an agreement here which is somewhat of a
11:05:02 hybrid in some ways but primarily from the city's
11:05:04 perspective it is an ordinance adopted with the full
11:05:08 authority and police powers of the city.

11:05:11 Tampa Electric is required to comply with essentially
11:05:15 all of the right-of-way permitting requirements.
11:05:19 They will still need to come in and pull permits, to
11:05:21 meet all those permitting requirements for operation
11:05:24 in the right-of-way.
11:05:27 And in addition to that, they have agreed to certain
11:05:29 provisions related to tree trimming, which my
11:05:33 understanding is essentially consistent with our
11:05:35 current code requirements.
11:05:43 And in terms of change over time, this is 25-year
11:05:50 agreement.
11:05:50 There is also a reopener that if there is some
11:05:57 significant change of circumstances, there would be
11:05:59 the possibility for the city to go back for response
11:06:06 to deregulation or something of a very grand scale
11:06:11 like that.
11:06:13 We have to go back and renegotiate under those
11:06:15 conditions.
11:06:19 Just a couple of additional points I wanted to mention
11:06:22 briefly.
11:06:33 We, I believe, will be asking that you all consider
11:06:35 this for approval on November 6th subject to your

11:06:40 discussion here today, and that after that it would --
11:06:43 the second reading in this hearing would be -- our
11:06:47 expectation would be on November 20th that
11:06:49 hopefully we could get this resolved.
11:06:53 It been quite a lengthy process.
11:06:55 But to give you an example of how far apart we are we
11:06:59 started, the basic form of the agreement was at issue
11:07:02 and the initial agreement so you can imagine that
11:07:05 would take quite some time to get through.
11:07:10 One other issue that I will mention because a number
11:07:12 of council members asked me about it is provisions
11:07:15 related to conservation programs.
11:07:18 That was discussed at one point, I believe, about nine
11:07:23 or ten months ago, related to the franchise agreement.
11:07:26 The ultimate agreement was that it not really be a
11:07:34 proper element, not really a proper element for a
11:07:36 franchise agreement but we do believe it's
11:07:38 appropriate, and my understanding is that the mayor
11:07:40 and senior staff at Tampa Electric at that time met
11:07:45 and reached a cooperative understanding to pursue a
11:07:51 conservation program between the city and Tampa
11:07:53 Electric that would be initiated after we completed

11:07:58 this process.
11:07:58 The decision was to focus on the core element of the
11:08:01 franchise agreement and then move forward with the
11:08:03 conservation program after we had resolved these
11:08:06 issues.
11:08:10 We also have Tom Cloud here who was involved in this
11:08:19 agreement, and if it's your pluriwould have him say a
11:08:23 few words about the agreement as well.
11:08:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Fletcher, before you leave.
11:08:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question for Mr. Cloud.
11:08:30 Mr. Cloud, could you briefly share with us what the
11:08:32 points were of compromise, where the city started off
11:08:36 in one place, TECO is at another place and where we
11:08:39 ended up.
11:08:39 And we want to make sure we have time for TECO as well
11:08:43 as all the public to speak.
11:08:44 >> For the record, my name is Tom Cloud, a partner
11:08:50 with Gray Robinson in their Orlando office.
11:08:52 And I have represented you since 2005, in the
11:08:56 renegotiation of this franchise.
11:08:58 And rather than nitpicking at what began 73 issues for
11:09:04 this agreement, I really would like to try and focus

11:09:07 on the big picture, and the big picture is the city
11:09:13 needed additional protection for its stream of
11:09:17 revenues, known as franchise fees.
11:09:20 The city's rate at 4.6 is currently below market.
11:09:25 Market in Florida is 6%.
11:09:29 Approximately 350-plus franchises.
11:09:33 In Florida are at 6%.
11:09:36 Tampa is at 4.6.
11:09:38 And the compromise that was reached in this document
11:09:42 was to provide at the city's discretion a ramping-up
11:09:47 process, the increase, the current franchise, and the
11:09:50 city deems it appropriate to 6%, which is current
11:09:56 market.
11:09:58 Another protection dealt with MacKay Bay which became
11:10:03 an issue later in the agreement, and I believe that an
11:10:07 extension to the separate MacKay Bay contract has been
11:10:12 entered into.
11:10:13 Perfect?
11:10:14 No.
11:10:16 Better than I thought you would do?
11:10:19 Yes, I think so.
11:10:22 There was an issue over the nature of this document.

11:10:26 Whether it be a contract or an ordinance.
11:10:28 The truth is, it's both.
11:10:30 It always has been.
11:10:31 That's the nature of the franchise.
11:10:33 This is a document reflects that.
11:10:36 There are elements of it that are binding, and there
11:10:38 are elements of it that are subject to your reserved
11:10:41 police power.
11:10:42 And I believe that that was appropriately addressed in
11:10:45 the agreement.
11:10:47 The term is not as long as it could have been, not as
11:10:49 short as perhaps you hoped for.
11:10:51 25 years, I believe.
11:10:55 There's a reasonable negotiated term, particularly
11:10:57 given the ability to increase the franchise fees,
11:11:00 because history shows that the level of fees is tied
11:11:04 to the term of the agreement.
11:11:05 That's always been the marketplace for franchise fees
11:11:09 is how long they could operate a business within the
11:11:11 city's rights-of-way.
11:11:16 On the operating protocols, there were compromises
11:11:18 within the operating protocols that I think are

11:11:21 appropriate for this city, and consistent with state
11:11:26 law.
11:11:26 There have been a number of preemptions, and I know
11:11:29 that we have discussed these not only one on one, but
11:11:34 in the context of work sessions with all of you
11:11:38 collectively.
11:11:39 There's just some things that the city is prohibited
11:11:41 from doing, everyone though we might want to, you
11:11:44 can't.
11:11:47 That's the long and the short of it.
11:11:48 And that's really pretty much of a big picture of the
11:11:51 agreement.
11:11:51 And I would be happy to answer any questions that you
11:11:53 might have.
11:11:56 >>CHAIRMAN: Questions from council members?
11:11:57 Mr. Dingfelder?
11:11:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, chair and Thom for
11:12:06 working so hard on this over the last couple of years.
11:12:08 A few questions.
11:12:10 As related to MacKay Bay, and that agreement, Thom,
11:12:16 you said I think the city has entered into that
11:12:19 agreement.

11:12:19 I don't know that that's the case, Chip.
11:12:24 >>> We reached attentive agreement with TECO on MacKay
11:12:27 Bay.
11:12:28 We anticipate sending that to you all at the same time
11:12:32 as the franchise agreement.
11:12:35 While they are not linked per se, they were negotiated
11:12:39 roughly simultaneously.
11:12:40 So we would ask for your consideration of that
11:12:43 agreement on the November 6th agenda.
11:12:48 Essentially it's a continuation of the current
11:12:50 agreement.
11:12:52 It addresses the likelihood that state law will
11:12:56 provide in the near future for renewable energy
11:12:58 credits and how those are treated.
11:13:01 It gives the city some flexibility in that it has the
11:13:05 ability for the city or TECO to terminate that
11:13:10 agreement at various points during the duration of the
11:13:14 agreement, which we thought was appropriate from the
11:13:17 city's perspective because of the changing nature of
11:13:20 renewable energy, renewable energy markets, and the
11:13:25 understanding that at some point in the future
11:13:27 renewable energy credits would be established, and

11:13:29 atth this point he would don't really know what
11:13:32 those are going to look like.
11:13:33 So we think that's a good agreement for the city.
11:13:35 We are recommending that.
11:13:37 And that will come to you in November.
11:13:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think it is critical if that
11:13:47 agreement is in fact a good one tracks along with the
11:13:50 franchise agreement, whenever that does come back.
11:13:54 It just makes sense.
11:13:57 A couple of other things.
11:14:00 I think it was the city of Winter Park up near Orlando
11:14:03 that ultimately, I guess, acquired the system from the
11:14:12 utility which is, what up there, Florida power?
11:14:15 >> Progress Energy.
11:14:18 June 1, 2005 to be exact.
11:14:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I'm not suggesting the City of
11:14:25 Tampa at this time wants to, but this is a 25-year
11:14:28 agreement that we are thinking about entering into.
11:14:31 So I think we want to have complete flexibility for
11:14:34 future City Councils and mayors who, for whatever
11:14:37 economic reason, might want to consider doing that.
11:14:41 Is that option available under our franchise

11:14:43 agreement, or under other state law?
11:14:46 >>> I believe it's available under other state law,
11:14:48 and it would be by means of eminent domain.
11:14:51 The city has never had a purchase option.
11:14:54 And the reason is historical.
11:14:57 The original franchise, I use the term loosely, was a
11:15:00 one-page document entered into 1891.
11:15:04 That's the earliest one that we have been able to
11:15:05 find.
11:15:09 This franchise traces its progeny back to.
11:15:12 And so at that time there was no state law requiring
11:15:16 the insertion of a purchase option in the franchise.
11:15:21 That law wasn't passed until 1899.
11:15:24 So at no time has Tampa had a purchase option that
11:15:29 would enable you to avoid the use of imminent domain.
11:15:32 But I do believe that eminent domain would be
11:15:34 available to the city.
11:15:35 Nobody has asked me, you know, whether or not you
11:15:38 should use eminent domain.
11:15:40 You just asked me is it an ability?
11:15:43 And I think that it is.
11:15:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I mean, is that purchase option

11:15:47 identified as a specific clause for on the franchises,
11:15:50 other cities and counties around the state?
11:15:52 >>> Yes, sir, it is.
11:15:54 >> It's a specific paragraph?
11:15:56 >>> Yes, sir, it is.
11:15:56 >> Is it in any of the TECO agreements?
11:15:59 >>> Yes, sir, it is.
11:16:02 >> Did it come up in these negotiations?
11:16:04 >>> Yes, sir, it did.
11:16:06 I think the answer was a little more than no, to put
11:16:10 it charitiably.
11:16:11 Oldsmar has one.
11:16:12 They received it in 1994.
11:16:21 >> And I apologize to TECO because I have discussed
11:16:24 this issue with them over the last couple of weeks,
11:16:26 but this didn't come to my mind till today when I was
11:16:28 looking at some other issues on here.
11:16:33 That concerns me a little bit.
11:16:34 Again, this is a 25 year agreement.
11:16:37 There must have been something -- and Thom, I'm sure
11:16:40 you can probably tell us for an hour.
11:16:42 We don't want to hear it.

11:16:43 But there must have been -- (laughter) -- there must
11:16:47 have been something that triggered that in Winter Park
11:16:49 that made Winter Park think, hmmm, economically this
11:16:51 might be a good idea for our citizens to get into the
11:16:54 electrical business.
11:16:55 The city of Gainesville has long had their own power
11:17:01 company, I believe.
11:17:02 >>> Yes.
11:17:02 Except for the University of Florida which has
11:17:04 electrical service provided by --
11:17:07 >> And Orlando utilities, of course.
11:17:08 >>> That's correct.
11:17:09 >> Generates its own which is a big as set forth city
11:17:12 of Orlando, I think.
11:17:12 >>> It is.
11:17:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Jacksonville.
11:17:18 >> Jacksonville electric authority.
11:17:19 Lakeland.
11:17:20 >>> 35 right now in the state.
11:17:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am not well versed on what the
11:17:27 pros and cons are in this economic market.
11:17:29 But it does concern me that we as a council would be

11:17:33 tying future council and mayors hands for 25 years
11:17:36 tore say, that's not an option unless you are going to
11:17:39 go through eminent domain.
11:17:41 And I will tell you, and you can tell us becauseiture
11:17:43 expert, eminent domain, for any process, is not the
11:17:48 easiest thing to gone through, and it also can be very
11:17:51 expensive.
11:17:52 You pay the other side's attorney fees in eminent
11:17:54 domain.
11:17:55 >>> I know there's a question in everything that you
11:17:59 just said and let me try to answer what I think your
11:18:01 question is.
11:18:02 The reason why Winter Park exercised their option is
11:18:06 that the level of service, the outages in Winter Park
11:18:13 grew to 306 minutes a year.
11:18:18 That's not very good.
11:18:19 In fact it was the worst in Florida.
11:18:21 No city has service that bad.
11:18:24 And so Winter Park was understandably not real happy
11:18:28 with it.
11:18:29 They had a purchase option.
11:18:30 They previously owned the system.

11:18:33 They had very favorable economic market for rates.
11:18:39 They were able to actually match rates in the sale.
11:18:42 So there were a lot of unique factors that made it an
11:18:46 option worth exercising for them, none of which are
11:18:50 present in your case.
11:18:55 But I can't argue with your concern.
11:18:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Because none of us know what's
11:19:00 going to happen over the next 25 years.
11:19:01 >>> Yes, sir.
11:19:02 Yes, sir.
11:19:03 But they are clearly unwilling to accept another
11:19:05 purchase option in their service area.
11:19:07 And we were not able to negotiate that for you.
11:19:11 Wish we could have.
11:19:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I mean, I don't know, obviously
11:19:15 council is not part of those negotiations.
11:19:17 But at the end of the day, it takes a council vote to
11:19:19 move anything forward.
11:19:20 >>> You are correct.
11:19:21 Can't argue with that.
11:19:22 >> I guess we'll hear from TECO on that issue.
11:19:30 The other one, sort of a minor issue, I saw in there

11:19:34 that right now we are 4.6% and we have the ability to
11:19:38 go to 6%.
11:19:42 And 6%, I think you said, is the Norma round the
11:19:44 state.
11:19:46 Mayor Iorio has indicated she's not going to raise
11:19:48 that during her term, and I respect and admire her for
11:19:51 saying so.
11:19:53 Clearly, some future mayor and council might be
11:19:55 raising.
11:19:56 That but they are limited to three raises, to use a
11:20:00 poker term, three raises during the 25-year life of
11:20:03 the term.
11:20:04 Why?
11:20:05 I mean, what if over the next -- what if the next
11:20:09 council wants to raise it, you know, a quarter percent
11:20:13 and the next council wants to raise it a quarter
11:20:15 percent and the next council wants to raise it a
11:20:17 quarter percent?
11:20:18 Then they never got to the 6%, but they are locked out
11:20:22 from ever going there for 25 years.
11:20:24 It seems to be really arbitrary the three raise issue.
11:20:31 >>> It was negotiated.

11:20:33 It's more of a billing convenience because I'm sure as
11:20:37 every one of you recognizes, TECO doesn't pay the
11:20:41 franchise.
11:20:41 It's passed onto the customers.
11:20:44 Has been since 1978.
11:20:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I can't imagine it's that hard to
11:20:49 change a percentage unanimous computer system, you
11:20:52 know, and add it.
11:20:56 I mean it's hard for the citizens who have to pay it.
11:21:00 >>> I don't think that was an unreasonable request on
11:21:03 their part and I don't have any trouble recommending
11:21:04 that, because the vast majority of franchises that I
11:21:07 have seen don't have any increase provision at all.
11:21:10 So I think that the city will have to consider
11:21:14 carefully as it goes forward under the term of this
11:21:16 agreement about the levels and the timing of
11:21:19 increasing that franchise fee.
11:21:26 It's a serious decision, primarily for you because
11:21:30 it's your citizens that end up paying.
11:21:34 >> Well, we'll keep talking about that.
11:21:36 >>> Yes, sir.
11:21:38 >> I was looking for a legal response.

11:21:40 But are were stating from a policy perspective.
11:21:44 >>> Yes, sir.
11:21:44 It's not a real legal issue.
11:21:47 It's something that can be agreed to in terms of this
11:21:49 agreement and has been.
11:21:51 Auburndale has a similar provision in their TECO
11:21:54 franchise.
11:21:55 The vast majority of them do not have an escalator
11:21:58 clause.
11:21:59 >> And lastly, Chip, on the sort of elusive
11:22:07 conservation agreement that you said the mayor might
11:22:09 be working on with TECO or something like that, but we
11:22:13 are going to wait until we are done with this and then
11:22:15 start on that.
11:22:17 To me, it's kind of like, now what?
11:22:19 We are at the table on all these huge issues with our
11:22:24 friends over at TECO.
11:22:25 Why wouldn't we bang out that very, very big issue,
11:22:29 and again bring that to the table with the franchise
11:22:32 agreement?
11:22:34 >>> Well, I think there was two parts to that, that
11:22:37 analysis.

11:22:37 I obviously wasn't part of that process.
11:22:39 But I have gone back through various correspondence
11:22:43 and looked at various different histories, I guess you
11:22:47 would say, looking through the e-mails and the drafts,
11:22:49 and I think that the decision was that it was an
11:22:53 important issue, but that there were a host of
11:22:57 additional issues that needed to be worked through,
11:22:59 and it was not really an appropriate issue for a
11:23:04 franchise agreement, because really what you are
11:23:06 looking at is use of the right-of-way, and
11:23:09 compensation to the city for use of the right-of-way.
11:23:12 That was viewed as more of a partnership issue that
11:23:15 wasn't part of that core consideration that would be
11:23:19 part of this agreement.
11:23:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.
11:23:22 But in terms of running it parallel, and running it
11:23:25 together and bringing it back at the same time, just,
11:23:28 you know, just for leverage purposes, and seemed to
11:23:34 make sense that just get them all done together.
11:23:40 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Well, I can't speak to the
11:23:42 judgment at that time.
11:23:42 I know that there was some --

11:23:46 >> I'm talking about now.
11:23:46 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Okay.
11:23:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Saul-Sena.
11:23:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I don't have a question.
11:23:52 I have a comment.
11:23:53 City Council is considering this franchise now.
11:23:58 What's in front of us for the first time.
11:24:01 It's the first time in the history of considering a
11:24:03 franchise where the impact on the environment is at
11:24:07 least as important as the franchise fees that the city
11:24:11 will realize.
11:24:12 We are being asked to consider this November -- our
11:24:15 first council meeting in November.
11:24:17 I would like to hear from the public, and I would like
11:24:19 council members to think about the fact that we have
11:24:21 not been allowed to participate in the development of
11:24:24 this.
11:24:25 It's been handed to us fait accompli.
11:24:29 I think we need to give ourselves more time.
11:24:31 I know we are stopping at 12.
11:24:33 I would like to hear from the public now if we could,
11:24:35 Madam Chairman.

11:24:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council members?
11:24:39 Now we will go to the public.
11:24:40 Anyone in the public like to speak on this item?
11:24:42 You may come and speak.
11:24:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Did you want to hear from TECO?
11:24:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would really like to hear from
11:24:52 them first.
11:24:52 Three minutes.
11:24:53 Name and address.
11:24:54 >>> Don millman.
11:24:55 I was a neurosurgeon in Tampa for 26 years.
11:24:58 I come representing physicians for social
11:25:02 responsibility, the Tampa Bay chapter.
11:25:04 Physicians for social responsibility responded in
11:25:06 1968, it was the recipient of the Nobel peace prize as
11:25:12 a U.S. member of the international physicians against
11:25:14 nuclear war.
11:25:16 The Tampa Bay chapter is the only chapter in Florida.
11:25:20 The mantra for physicians for social responsibility is
11:25:25 to prevent what we can't cure.
11:25:27 And what can't be cured are effects of global warming,
11:25:32 the effects of nuclear war.

11:25:35 And the effects of toxins in the environment.
11:25:38 I was fascinated by the gentleman's TECO passes on,
11:25:43 because what TECO passes on by its extreme dependency
11:25:47 on coal -- and there is no such thing as clean coal,
11:25:52 by the way -- it the extreme dependency on coal that
11:25:55 passes on particulate matter into the atmosphere,
11:26:00 toxins into the atmosphere and adverse effects on
11:26:03 global warming.
11:26:05 And the people in the Tampa Bay area who are mostly
11:26:07 affected by this are our children, over a long range
11:26:11 of time, and also our elderly and our infirmed with
11:26:15 chronic diseases.
11:26:17 Therefore, I am not attuned or aware of the political
11:26:23 issues going on here but I strongly ask that you all
11:26:25 think about these particular issues as you move
11:26:27 forward, because the citizens not only pay the bill
11:26:31 financially, but they pay the bill with their health.
11:26:35 Thank you.
11:26:39 >> I'm Darrin booth.
11:26:44 When I think of the 25-year contract, I wouldn't be
11:26:48 signing a 25-year contract with the guy that mows my
11:26:52 lawn, unless I thought I was getting a phenomenal

11:26:54 deal.
11:26:55 I would want some kind of clause where I could get out
11:26:57 of it if the service or the performance dropped.
11:27:01 25 years from now, I'm going to be on a fixed income.
11:27:06 25 years from now, if I sat back in the history of
11:27:10 Tampa, what I see when I drive around the
11:27:15 rights-of-way of Tampa today, if we started improving
11:27:19 those 25 years ago, it would look a heck of a lot
11:27:23 different.
11:27:24 If we started investing our dollars a little
11:27:27 differently 25 years ago, it would look a lot
11:27:30 different.
11:27:30 For example, when I got my coffee this morning,
11:27:33 there's ten streetlights on that one block.
11:27:40 It was about 10:30 when I drove here.
11:27:43 Three of those streetlights are on.
11:27:45 30% of those lights are on right now.
11:27:50 And TECO needs to sell more energy this afternoon,
11:27:56 they get more revenue because those lights are on.
11:27:59 And if you drive around at night, a lot of lights
11:28:03 aren't on when they should be.
11:28:06 I would just ask anybody, drive around.

11:28:08 Look at the streetlights.
11:28:09 Those are -- to me, signing a 25 year agreement with
11:28:15 this level of service, expecting to get something
11:28:18 different for the next 25 years, I would like to see
11:28:21 some clauses in that contract that show how they are
11:28:24 going to change their current way of doing business.
11:28:28 I have lived all over the world, a lot of third world
11:28:33 countries.
11:28:33 And when I drive around from a utility perspective in
11:28:36 Tampa, it seems very third world.
11:28:39 This would be great in 1910.
11:28:43 But 100 years later, we can do better.
11:28:45 So hopefully the contracts will be better.
11:28:48 Real quick, my proposal would be, let's work together
11:28:53 with TECO.
11:28:54 They are a great corporate citizen, they do use some
11:28:58 of our dollars to spread around the community,
11:29:03 actually took me fishing last Friday, and I appreciate
11:29:06 that.
11:29:08 But we have got to do a little better.
11:29:12 We have got to do better by the entire population.
11:29:14 And let's start turning off some of those streetlights

11:29:21 during the day, use that savings to start reinvesting
11:29:25 in better streetlights.
11:29:28 My day job is working for a project called the
11:29:30 Heights.
11:29:30 We are developing mixed use community.
11:29:33 We are getting ready to select our streetlights.
11:29:36 I'm not using last year's technology.
11:29:38 I'm not using 25-year-old technology like we see on
11:29:42 the rights-of-way today.
11:29:43 We are going to use modern technology that uses 64%
11:29:47 less energy.
11:29:48 Now, if I was selling electricity, I probably wouldn't
11:29:53 like that kind of technology.
11:29:54 But if I am paying for it, I love that kind of
11:29:58 technology.
11:29:59 And if this agreement doesn't have some kind of --
11:30:03 some of those protections for our rite right-of-way, I
11:30:06 would just encourage you all strongly not to sign it.
11:30:10 Thank you.
11:30:12 >>> I'm Lisa Montlione, a resident of the City of
11:30:23 Tampa, a secretary of the civic association, a member
11:30:26 of the builders association TBBA and a member of its

11:30:29 green building committee.
11:30:30 I'm here this morning, a lot of people have spoken
11:30:33 about the rate increase and how in economic times it's
11:30:36 very difficult, a lot of people can tell you about
11:30:39 that, and I'm sure you have all heard enough about
11:30:42 that.
11:30:42 So what I'm here to do is implore you to take
11:30:46 advantage of this opportunity with TECO and this
11:30:48 franchise agreement to look at renewable and
11:30:50 sustainable methods of power generation.
11:30:52 And there has been a lot of research done.
11:30:56 There is realtime data coming out of Europe.
11:31:00 We have the data that is just an infant here in this
11:31:05 country but we can look to Europe and ignore our
11:31:07 multipliers in a pretend world and look at their real
11:31:10 world data.
11:31:11 It is just phenomenal what can be done with solar
11:31:15 power, what can be done with wind power, wind
11:31:17 generation.
11:31:22 And I did a little poke ago round.
11:31:24 And the city of San Francisco more than offensive
11:31:28 years ago -- I'm sorry, Santa Monica, more than five

11:31:31 years ago in their franchise agreement, created a fund
11:31:37 for municipalities solar cities, and what they did was
11:31:41 they used that fund written into the franchise
11:31:44 agreement to install solar power on their municipal
11:31:49 buildings.
11:31:49 I don't have to tell what you kind of savings that is
11:31:51 not only for the city but the citizens who are taking
11:31:55 advantage of that savings that the city passes on.
11:32:01 That alone should be enough of a reason for the city
11:32:04 to look at installing some kind of clause within that
11:32:09 franchise agreement for its own benefit, on its own
11:32:13 city buildings.
11:32:14 Passing along some kind of clause within the franchise
11:32:18 agreement to incentivize builders who use solar or to
11:32:22 incentivize citizens to use solar on their own
11:32:26 residences is another benefit.
11:32:29 But the amount of capture for the city on all of these
11:32:34 buildings, you own a lot of real estate.
11:32:37 And you operate a lot of facilities.
11:32:38 And that would be a tremendous savings especially in
11:32:42 tight budget times.
11:32:43 When I look at just the TECO solar renewable program,

11:32:47 I found four instances cited on their web site.
11:32:52 One was MOSI.
11:32:53 One was their Manatee viewing center.
11:32:55 One was Middleton high school.
11:32:57 And the other one was Whitney middle.
11:33:01 That's the extent of their solar installation.
11:33:03 So in comparison, you can see that we really need to
11:33:08 do more.
11:33:10 And I don't know, but it just seems like a logical
11:33:15 next step.
11:33:16 And what we discussed earlier the franchise fee, I
11:33:19 looked at my own bill, and I'm paying -- more than a
11:33:25 4.5%, in my rush to get here I left my notes behind,
11:33:29 but more than a 4.5% rebate to TECO for franchise fee.
11:33:34 So the citizens are reimbursing the electric company
11:33:38 for the franchise fee.
11:33:39 The citizens should get something back for our
11:33:43 participation in that franchise agreement.
11:33:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm only speaking for myself.
11:33:51 I'm going to challenge everyone who speaks today, if
11:33:53 you want me to give you the right to check your
11:33:55 electric bill, your water bill, I will certainly do

11:33:59 that.
11:33:59 Just go by the office, leave your name, address, phone
11:34:02 number, give me a little note saying that I have the
11:34:04 right to do that and I'll do it.
11:34:06 But I'm not here for TECO. I'm here for the citizens
11:34:08 of the City of Tampa.
11:34:10 I don't believe that the last statement that was
11:34:12 quoted here is correct.
11:34:15 TECO does not get that 4.5% rebate to them.
11:34:18 That's a franchise fee that the city gets.
11:34:21 >> Right.
11:34:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So TECO is the transparency of
11:34:26 changing the funds over from what they collected to
11:34:28 the city.
11:34:28 And I don't want anything to be said that might say
11:34:34 that's the way the contract reads.
11:34:36 The contract does not read that, that I know of.
11:34:40 And I can only say that I as one individual -- forget
11:34:46 about being in office -- will try to do whatever is
11:34:50 possible to have my own solar, which I have been
11:34:52 looking at for months, to when that price goes down
11:34:56 from 30-some thousand for a house to 15,000 for a

11:35:02 house, I'll put it in.
11:35:03 And it's up to each one of us at home and watching
11:35:07 this today to make this a better place to live.
11:35:11 I don't blame the city or TECO, I blame us all, for
11:35:17 always thinking that we set the tone, we set the tone
11:35:20 into bankruptcy, because we have used all the assets,
11:35:23 we have destroyed the planet, we have more emissions
11:35:26 than anywhere else in the world, we do the things
11:35:29 wrongly, and then we say, it's somebody else's fault.
11:35:32 No, it's our fault.
11:35:33 We did it.
11:35:34 Thank you.
11:35:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
11:35:38 >>> Good morning.
11:35:38 I'm Phil Compton.
11:35:40 I reside in Tampa.
11:35:41 I'm a TECO customer.
11:35:42 I'm also the regional representative for the national
11:35:45 office of the Sierra Club, which is located in
11:35:47 St. Petersburg.
11:35:49 It's interesting that we are going back talking about
11:35:51 the 1891 agreement, the origin of TECO here.

11:35:55 TECO started with clean renewable energy,
11:35:58 hydroelectric on the Hillsborough River.
11:36:03 Now TECO lags far behind, virtually all of their
11:36:08 electricity does come from fossil fuel.
11:36:10 Now, we have a choice here in America of choosing a
11:36:13 clean energy future that will increase America's
11:36:15 independence, reinvague vig rate our economy with new
11:36:19 jobs, and make our environment cleaner and safer.
11:36:22 Than transition will require millions of Americans to
11:36:25 do the work of building and delivering and install
11:36:28 these clean energy solutions.
11:36:31 And it will create significant and sustainable
11:36:33 economic growth.
11:36:35 On the other hand, we can take the path that TECO has
11:36:38 been on up to this point in time, continue to rely on
11:36:42 coal and other fossil fuels, and that means that
11:36:45 global warming will get worse.
11:36:47 And here in Tampa, we are one of the cities in America
11:36:49 that is most vulnerable to those effects that will
11:36:53 start happening in our lifetime.
11:36:56 It's going to take a toll on the city, this nation's
11:36:59 public and economic health in a way that we really

11:37:01 don't want to see.
11:37:02 And we are talking about 25 years in the future.
11:37:07 So do we invest in immediate and long-term transition
11:37:11 to energy efficiency and clean energy source that is
11:37:13 can stabilize energy costs instead of the roller
11:37:16 coaster that we have been on lately, invigorate this
11:37:19 economy and create new jobs for American workers?
11:37:22 Here in Florida, we released a report with other
11:37:25 environmental organizations, 124,000 new construction
11:37:28 jobs, put those construction workers right back to
11:37:30 work.
11:37:31 What does this have to do with TECO?
11:37:33 Not only is TECO not doing what Florida Power and
11:37:36 Light, Progress Energy and a lot of other utilities,
11:37:40 all utilities around the country are doing and moving
11:37:43 forward in a very aggressive way, they are also
11:37:45 nationally one of the major opponents to our country
11:37:50 moving forward.
11:37:51 So you talk, councilman, about individual
11:37:53 responsibility, and I completely agree with you.
11:37:55 But also as leaders in the community, you have a
11:37:58 responsibility to do what you can right now to speak

11:38:00 to this corporation, which is based here.
11:38:04 It's wonderful that we have this long history with
11:38:06 TECO.
11:38:07 I have friends and neighbors that work with them as
11:38:09 I'm sure you do, too.
11:38:11 But we need to use our influence to make sure that we
11:38:14 are adhering to the green resolution that you passed
11:38:18 last June, energy conservation and climate change,
11:38:21 monitor, minimize energy consumption, reduce
11:38:24 greenhouse gas emissions, promote development and use
11:38:27 of resours.
11:38:30 Is your franchise agreement doing that to the fullest
11:38:32 extent that it possibly can?
11:38:34 If you are talking about 25 years from now, you are
11:38:36 not going to get another shot at this.
11:38:38 And you need to look at that very closely.
11:38:40 Because do bear in mind TECO is one of the major
11:38:42 obstacles in the United States, to our country moving
11:38:45 forward, towards clean renewable energy at a time when
11:38:48 we have to do it.
11:38:50 Thank you.
11:38:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.

11:38:57 >>> Good morning, council members.
11:38:58 My name is Stephen Breslow, a 26-year resident of
11:39:02 Florida.
11:39:03 Tampa.
11:39:05 Very proud to be a citizen of the city.
11:39:07 I would like to see it move forward, also, and
11:39:10 progressive energy practices.
11:39:12 This franchise agreement represents in my mind one of
11:39:16 the few chances the city has to literally talk to
11:39:22 power general earther.
11:39:23 The industry seems like it is changing extremely
11:39:27 rapidly around the country, and I think the
11:39:30 domestication of energy sources is now a forgone
11:39:33 conclusion across the country.
11:39:34 I'm very happy to say both presidential candidates are
11:39:37 supporting that.
11:39:38 I would like to see some of those dollars come to
11:39:40 Tampa, Florida, not just go to Texas, frankly, natural
11:39:46 gas, Texas and Louisiana, not just two to the
11:39:50 Appalachians, fighting Pennsylvania across the bay
11:39:54 right now, fighting it much more in energy bills
11:39:57 because TECO is relying 60% on coal that comes from

11:40:03 Appalachian, mostly Kentucky, Virginia, that region.
11:40:08 One of the myths I would like to talk about briefly,
11:40:10 if I can, unfortunately a myth that's being generated
11:40:12 in the presidential campaign, and that's the myth of
11:40:15 clean coal.
11:40:18 I think I found the answer actually in this morning's
11:40:22 yahoo news, I believe.
11:40:26 Pennsylvania, it turns out, is going to be one of the
11:40:28 most thoroughly fought-over states in this
11:40:30 presidential campaign.
11:40:32 It's a coal-producing state.
11:40:35 TECO energy gets about 60% of its feed stalk from its
11:40:42 coal mine and coal generating capacity.
11:40:45 I would like to see that change.
11:40:46 Those dollars could be coming right here to Tampa,
11:40:49 Florida.
11:40:50 And we talked, councilman Miranda, about our own
11:40:55 conservation practices.
11:40:55 Well, let's talk dollars just for a second.
11:40:59 I don't think you are probably aware of it, but every
11:41:01 man, woman and child in Alaska this week, I believe,
11:41:07 or very soon, is receiving a check for $3200.

11:41:12 That's every man, woman and child in the state of
11:41:16 Alaska.
11:41:17 Why?
11:41:18 Because of oil.
11:41:20 Okay.
11:41:20 It's the oil dividend that's going to its own
11:41:23 citizens.
11:41:24 The Department of Energy has designated Florida as the
11:41:28 bio energy capital of the United States.
11:41:31 Okay.
11:41:32 This very state, and the governor's office and the
11:41:35 Department of Energy and the governor's office knows
11:41:37 this.
11:41:37 This state could become a net energy exporter -- not
11:41:42 an importer.
11:41:44 We import 99% of our energy.
11:41:47 We could become the next exporter to the latest solar
11:41:50 technology and through our bio energy capability.
11:41:53 When I say bio energy, I mean dedicated energy crops
11:41:57 that could be literally dry and fired right in TECO's
11:42:04 power plant, they could co-fire 15% with almost no
11:42:07 retrofitting whatsoever, as is being done in Europe

11:42:09 and other places around the country.
11:42:12 Those are energy crops that could be grown in eastern
11:42:16 Hillsborough County.
11:42:17 Okay.
11:42:18 So this is not high tech energy solution.
11:42:24 This is a solution that is for us right hear and now.
11:42:28 Solar is also unlimited potential in Florida.
11:42:31 (Bell sounds).
11:42:33 I think as you know.
11:42:34 Thank you very much.
11:42:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:42:35 Next speaker.
11:42:40 >>> Good morning.
11:42:41 I'm bill neaton, the Executive Director of the Florida
11:42:45 consumer action network.
11:42:46 I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you about
11:42:48 this today.
11:42:49 We have got a couple of thousand members in the Tampa
11:42:53 area that use energy from TECO.
11:42:56 First thing I wanted to do is thank TECO for cleaning
11:42:59 up that big bend power plant out there as one of the
11:43:03 dirtiest plants in the country and just made a

11:43:07 tremendous difference how clean our air is and we will
11:43:09 pay more in ow power bills for that but that's okay
11:43:12 because we are going to save money because of our
11:43:14 health care costs being lower.
11:43:15 So as consumers we are willing to pay a little more
11:43:18 sometimes, if we get something back from it.
11:43:23 The situation of energy is changing around us very
11:43:27 rapidly.
11:43:31 The needs are changing as we speak.
11:43:34 The population in Florida may decrease and not
11:43:38 increase as we thought for so many years.
11:43:40 The predictions of future demand may be completely
11:43:43 wrong and may need to be revised.
11:43:46 So it's very unpredictable right now.
11:43:48 And to get into a long-term agreement when no one is
11:43:52 really quite sure what's going to happen could cause
11:43:55 us a lot of problems in the future, and in Washington
11:43:59 state they decided to start building five nuclear
11:44:01 power plants based on need projections and a few years
11:44:07 later because of changes in energy efficiency all of a
11:44:10 sudden they didn't need them at all and they ended up
11:44:13 with the largest bond default in history and are still

11:44:16 probably paying that off.
11:44:17 So we don't want to be in a situation where we stick
11:44:20 our citizens with a huge bill for something that may
11:44:23 not be needed.
11:44:25 So we have to be responsible in working with TECO to
11:44:30 make sure that we have a responsible vendor as it were
11:44:34 for our citizens.
11:44:34 And they are talking about getting involved in an
11:44:37 extremely extensive nuke plant north of here.
11:44:42 So when we talk about hiring TECO to do the
11:44:47 electricity for us, it's because they say they
11:44:51 represent that they can do a better job than we can.
11:44:53 As you heard, we could actually -- we could do it
11:44:56 ourselves, if we needed to.
11:44:58 But they can do a better job more efficiently, they
11:45:02 are a profit-making business, so we allow them to do
11:45:05 that.
11:45:06 And as long as they do that, as long as they do a good
11:45:08 job of it, then they can do that.
11:45:11 We give them that franchise.
11:45:13 But we have to be very concerned that they are going
11:45:15 to be able to keep doing that, and we are not going to

11:45:17 have problems.
11:45:18 For instance, technology is changing very rapidly.
11:45:21 Just a few years ago, nobody probably would have
11:45:25 imagined not having a land line telephone.
11:45:28 You are going to need a wire coming to your phone.
11:45:31 Now nobody needs a wire coming to their phone.
11:45:34 Devices that electricity.
11:45:38 Electricity, you know, this big infrastructure may go
11:45:43 the way of land line phones which are being sold off
11:45:46 to smaller companies.
11:45:47 Now they went fiber-optic so it may be a huge change.
11:45:51 We would urge you not to jump into this agreement.
11:45:54 We think it should wait for at least six months and
11:45:57 keep negotiating into the future and take into account
11:46:01 some of these issues that are important to the
11:46:03 citizens, to our financial well-being, and that you
11:46:06 have a right to expect from your utility.
11:46:11 When things are changing so rapidly, you know, you
11:46:14 wouldn't want to get locked into a 25-year agreement
11:46:17 where you can't modify it, and can't make a change
11:46:21 that might be needed.
11:46:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Your time is up.

11:46:24 >>> All right.
11:46:25 Thank you.
11:46:26 I appreciate the opportunity.
11:46:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
11:46:34 >>> My name is TJ Reynold.
11:46:39 A resident of Tampa.
11:46:41 I have an offerings message from the Old Seminole
11:46:42 Heights neighborhood association of which I am the
11:46:45 co-chair for the information and outreach community
11:46:46 for the community.
11:46:47 And then I have a separate one as a citizen.
11:46:49 So can I get two buzzers?
11:46:52 >> One buzzer.
11:46:53 Three minutes.
11:46:53 >> Okay.
11:46:55 I respectfully ask that you in some way commission a
11:46:59 comparative analysis of contracts of major
11:47:03 metropolitan franchise agreements or contracts,
11:47:06 whatever it's been called here, to then share this on
11:47:10 key points and how TECO's contract with Tampa differs
11:47:13 from other major metropolitan city contacts and if
11:47:17 possible to look at other forward-thinking states and

11:47:21 energy suppliers.
11:47:22 Secondly, that's the official request.
11:47:27 As a businesswoman, I am also concerned about
11:47:30 nonnegotiable long-term agreements and how that
11:47:33 affects the city's operations and the ways we do
11:47:36 business here.
11:47:37 Everyone has talked about the rapidly changing market
11:47:39 and the energy issues.
11:47:40 I am not going to go into those things per se, but to
11:47:43 provide some bits of information, just so that you
11:47:47 know that there has been a dramatic change in how
11:47:50 wholesale energy competition is being offered in the
11:47:53 market today.
11:47:54 And I have orphan heard folks talk about the sort of
11:47:58 monopoly, particularly with one supplier and how this
11:48:01 reduces our competitiveness.
11:48:02 On October 16th, 2008, the federal energy
11:48:05 regulatory commission finalized regulations to
11:48:08 strengthen and approve the competitiveness of
11:48:10 organized wholesale electric markets.
11:48:13 Now, in June, before this meeting was held, the
11:48:17 electric power supply association, different from

11:48:20 manufacturers, the supply association has put forward
11:48:22 a now article about the rising cost of power
11:48:26 generation projects and argues for greater reliance on
11:48:29 competitive markets and procurement, specifically they
11:48:31 say that the rising cost are best managed by
11:48:34 competitive suppliers and competitive market forces.
11:48:37 They say that states and regions that continue to rely
11:48:40 on vertically integrated cost plus rate regulated
11:48:46 utilities should move quickly to require competitive
11:48:48 power procurement to impose discipline on the
11:48:53 utilities.
11:48:53 So their consumers get the best deal possible.
11:48:56 That's the transmission folks, not the generation
11:48:58 folks.
11:48:59 I would say that it would be beneficial for the city
11:49:01 to hire an energy economist or an attorney separate
11:49:05 from the city's operational staff, if possible, to
11:49:08 look at these things with expertise to understand and
11:49:12 prepare an assessment for the city and to hold off on
11:49:15 signing that agreement until this could be thoroughly
11:49:18 understood.
11:49:18 The market is just changing too fast.

11:49:21 Even in November or even in six months might be
11:49:23 detrimental.
11:49:25 I will be happy to submit these document.
11:49:26 Second point is the issue of where the Florida Public
11:49:30 Service Commission on renewable energy.
11:49:32 I heard Monday at the community sustainability
11:49:34 conference in Orlando, senator Constantine indicated
11:49:39 that the governor was not happy with what the
11:49:42 commission had proposed for renewable energy
11:49:44 standards, and that they were sending them back to do
11:49:46 some more thinking.
11:49:47 They also mentioned there's a commission meeting on
11:49:49 that night.
11:49:49 I happened to ask an energy utility executive at a
11:49:52 reception about their plan for renewable energy.
11:49:54 He basically gave me a very lovely dance and said his
11:49:57 company intends to wait and see and do only what is
11:50:00 required basically by the FPC.
11:50:03 It is possible for people to develop commercial power
11:50:06 with solar at this point in time.
11:50:07 We ask you that you also include this in your review
11:50:10 as we go forward.

11:50:11 Thank you.
11:50:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
11:50:16 >>> Good morning.
11:50:17 My name is Nick ALGA, work with southern alliance for
11:50:22 clean energy.
11:50:23 I have been an advocate of energy efficiency and
11:50:25 renewables on a personal and professional level for
11:50:27 nearly ten years.
11:50:28 Thank you, the Tampa City Council for holding this
11:50:31 public workshop, and thanks to the public for turning
11:50:33 out for this important venture between the partnership
11:50:36 of TECO and City of Tampa.
11:50:38 Today I will keep my remarks to two points, good
11:50:41 business sense and a 21st century vision.
11:50:45 TECO is a fossil fuel based company that is a 10th
11:50:49 of one percent in energy efficiency.
11:50:51 I have included with my statement comments from the
11:50:53 southern alliance for clone energy regarding to the
11:50:57 Public Service Commission revenue decoupling workshop
11:51:01 held on August 7, 2008.
11:51:03 Within the statement you will find that TECO invested
11:51:06 .14% of the total gigawatt hour sales in 2006, and in

11:51:12 2007 the figures dropped to .11% of total gigawatt
11:51:17 hour sales.
11:51:18 I would encourage the City Council to look deeper into
11:51:20 the issue of investment of efficiency as a key
11:51:23 component in moving forward.
11:51:24 Energy efficiency makes good business sense.
11:51:28 How to use light bulbs, the common everyday necessity,
11:51:31 as an example.
11:51:33 In my small approximately 700 square foot apartment, I
11:51:37 have 40 fixtures where I can plays place light bulbs.
11:51:42 According to the EPA energy star, CFL cost saving
11:51:47 calculator over the cost of those 25 years the
11:51:49 difference between a traditional candescent light bulb
11:51:53 and the new compact florescent light bulb is
11:51:56 tremendous.
11:51:58 Based on the current rate of 10 cents a kilowatt hour,
11:52:04 in one year the cost is $424 and $68 respectively.
11:52:12 Over the course of 25 years, including energy costs
11:52:16 and the replacement of the light bulbs, the life cycle
11:52:20 of the candescent light bulbs, you need two cycles.
11:52:23 Incandescent you need many.
11:52:26 The cost is 1,780.

11:52:29 And 10,600 respectively.
11:52:32 Now this is just a very, very small example of energy
11:52:36 efficiency.
11:52:37 Over the course of 25 years, small measures do indeed
11:52:40 make a tremendous difference.
11:52:42 Here's the kicker.
11:52:44 Contact fluorescent light bulbs were not commercially
11:52:47 viable 25 years ago.
11:52:48 Imagine what new technology on the horizon will look
11:52:51 like in 25 years.
11:52:53 As a person -- I am now replacing mine with led light
11:52:58 bulbs which are a fraction of the energy light bulbs.
11:53:03 25 years in today's age is no doubt a very long time.
11:53:06 Not only does energy efficiency make good business
11:53:10 sense, renewable energy is now increasingly
11:53:10 competitive with traditional fuel. In fact, the price
11:53:13 of renewable is steadily dropping over time, as the
11:53:15 price of fossil fuels is going up.
11:53:18 26 years ago, in 1982, the price per watt of a
11:53:22 crystalline solar module was $27 per Watt.
11:53:27 Today it is approaching $4 a Watt.
11:53:31 What might the next 26 years hold for the price of

11:53:34 renawables?
11:53:34 According to the New Jersey office of clean energy
11:53:36 commercial, solar, price dropped on average of 3.3%
11:53:41 per year between 2003 and 2007.
11:53:44 It can be expected that as solar prices decline --
11:53:51 I'll conclude finally with a vision of the 21st
11:53:53 century, the City of Tampa has signed the mayor's
11:53:57 protection agreement, and you can read more about it
11:54:00 in my written statement.
11:54:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:54:05 Ms. Saul-Sena.
11:54:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think a number of people have
11:54:08 written statements to share with council, if they can
11:54:09 pass them up, that would be useful.
11:54:11 Madam Chairman, I want to ask our attorney, since we
11:54:17 have advertised first reading at our first City
11:54:20 Council meeting of November, I don't support moving
11:54:24 ahead with this franchise agreement.
11:54:26 But since we advertised it, do we have to vote on it
11:54:28 then?
11:54:29 Or can we move to delay it until we get a detailed
11:54:31 analysis of the sustainable plan by Tampa Electric

11:54:35 Company?
11:54:48 We haven't advertised it yet.
11:54:49 He would haven't set it?
11:54:50 Excellent, thank you.
11:54:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It goes through the doc agenda
11:54:57 system.
11:54:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to make a motion we
11:54:59 not move ahead prematurely until we have had a chance
11:55:02 to thoroughly analyze the issues that were raised at
11:55:04 this workshop today, and that we put this -- set
11:55:09 another workshop on the City Council agenda in six
11:55:11 months so that we have an opportunity to analyze the
11:55:15 details sustainability plan developed for us by Tampa
11:55:18 Electric Company.
11:55:22 >>GWEN MILLER: TECO, did you want to speak?
11:55:31 Nobody seconded it.
11:55:32 I need to hear from TECO anyway.
11:55:35 Is there anyone from TECO who that would like to
11:55:38 speak?
11:55:38 >>> I can address many of the things that were
11:55:40 requested such as the comparison with other franchise
11:55:42 agreements having the outside consultants.

11:55:45 We have done all those things.
11:55:46 We would be happy to share those with you.
11:55:49 But when you are getting into issues of renewable
11:55:51 energy and the source of the energy, where it's coming
11:55:54 from, that in my opinion is clearly outside our
11:55:57 jurisdiction.
11:55:58 And in my view would make this franchise agreement not
11:56:01 consistent with state or federal law.
11:56:03 So while we can talk about conservation and
11:56:06 sustainability and other issues, I think mandating --
11:56:10 while it's important, good public policy to have
11:56:12 renewable energy, that's within the purview of the
11:56:15 Florida Public Service Commission and the federal
11:56:18 energy regulatory commission.
11:56:19 That's not our role here.
11:56:23 So while we can talk about these things, and the city
11:56:26 has been aggressively trying to get the Public Service
11:56:29 Commission regulations changed -- we have been.
11:56:33 And will continue to be.
11:56:35 Both in administrative and potentially other avenues
11:56:39 in the legislative process.
11:56:40 I don't personally view that as within our scope

11:56:43 within the franchise agreement.
11:56:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
11:56:49 Mr. Cloud, let me ask one or two questions.
11:56:55 Do we have to necessarily have an agreement with TECO?
11:56:58 If we don't have one, what happens?
11:57:00 >>> I think it a good idea to have an agreement with
11:57:02 TECO.
11:57:03 The uncertainty of not having an agreement would be
11:57:06 bad for both the city and for TECO.
11:57:11 In the credit markets.
11:57:13 Think I from a legal standpoint it is highly desirable
11:57:15 to have an agreement, and that would be my strong
11:57:17 advice to you to pursue forward getting an agreement.
11:57:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me continue, if I may.
11:57:27 When we are here, I am trying to compare with other
11:57:29 industries.
11:57:30 For instance, when the oil goes up, you still go to
11:57:33 the gas station and buy gas.
11:57:35 It's up to the consumer to say, I'm going to save by
11:57:38 changing my automobile, if you have the funds to do
11:57:41 it, and going to a Prius like some council members
11:57:45 have, and making that decision where the investment in

11:57:49 the vehicle is going to be a return to the cost of
11:57:53 ratio of gasoline.
11:57:54 So what I'm saying is, I am trying to figure out, if
11:58:00 we don't have an agreement, nothing really changes.
11:58:05 Status quo. If we have an agreement, what changes?
11:58:09 I mean, I agree with everything everyone said here.
11:58:11 From the doctor to the lawyer to the pharmacist to the
11:58:14 bread maker to the real estate lady to the one.
11:58:18 I am trying to remember all who came, to the
11:58:20 environmentalists.
11:58:21 But the challenge is still on.
11:58:23 You can go to the office and I'll challenge all of you
11:58:26 on the electric bill and water, and I'm going to do
11:58:28 that constantly as long as I'm on this council.
11:58:31 Don't tell me what you are doing for somebody else.
11:58:33 Tell me what you aring to for yourself that will help
11:58:35 somebody else.
11:58:37 Go on, sir.
11:58:40 >>> Okay, I'm sorry, I missed the question.
11:58:43 [ Laughter ]
11:58:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm sorry to throw you curve balls
11:58:47 but I never was good with a fast ball.

11:58:49 But what I'm saying is, nothing changes, without an
11:58:52 agreement.
11:58:53 What happened?
11:58:54 >>> Well, currently -- you continue to operate under
11:59:01 the terms of the prior franchise.
11:59:05 Now, conceivably someone could come in and attempt to
11:59:08 litigate that issue, okay.
11:59:11 But while it's sitting there, there's a degree of
11:59:15 uncertainty.
11:59:16 And I believe that it is appropriate for the city,
11:59:20 based on the conditions that are before you now, to
11:59:25 enter into the agreement.
11:59:26 Perfect?
11:59:26 No.
11:59:27 But the things that you have heard talked about this
11:59:29 morning are not things that we can introduce into the
11:59:34 agreement.
11:59:36 They are prohibited by state law.
11:59:39 >> Let me continue, if I may, Madam Chair.
11:59:42 This agreement wasn't yesterday.
11:59:44 You are not a part of the city staff.
11:59:46 You are outside counsel hired by the city.

11:59:48 Am I correct?
11:59:48 You are an expert in this field.
11:59:50 >>> Yes, I'm hired by the city.
11:59:54 And, yes, I am outside.
11:59:56 And if you say I'm AP expert that's okay by me.
11:59:59 >> I don't know if you are.
12:00:01 You and I have similar heads and that's why I consider
12:00:04 you an expert.
12:00:06 [ Laughter ]
12:00:06 I even forgot my next question.
12:00:09 But I think this council for the last two years, this
12:00:18 has been going on for two years.
12:00:19 This hasn't started yesterday or the day before
12:00:21 yesterday or two months ago.
12:00:23 For God's sake, a kid now graduated from high school
12:00:27 has been hear so long.
12:00:28 So what I am saying is why not put it on first
12:00:31 reading? I'm just throwing this out.
12:00:33 And hold it between first an second reading.
12:00:36 Let the public come in on first reading like it's
12:00:38 normally done on any other that comes before council,
12:00:40 bring it up, have discussion not only by the good

12:00:42 citizens here, but many more citizens, and have that
12:00:46 information.
12:00:47 We do that with everything else.
12:00:49 We do it with land zoning, liquor zonings, all the
12:00:51 zonings.
12:00:52 And this is a paramount thing for 25 years.
12:00:56 More than likely, I won't see the end of this
12:00:58 agreement.
12:01:00 But I may fool you.
12:01:02 >>> Was that a question in the form of a why-not?
12:01:05 >> Right.
12:01:06 That's why I knew you were smart.
12:01:07 >>> Well, I don't see a reason why you couldn't
12:01:11 proceed in that fashion, because you would be
12:01:13 proceeding in due course.
12:01:14 >> You can hold it, second reading.
12:01:16 >>> I mean, legally, I don't see any problem with
12:01:20 doing that.
12:01:26 >> Hold our second reading for whatever you want.
12:01:28 >>> I think the statute actually contemplates during
12:01:32 both first reading and second reading of ordinances,
12:01:35 that testimony is appropriate, if you will,.

12:01:43 >> I can't speak for the other council members but I'm
12:01:46 sure they do.
12:01:46 >>GWEN MILLER: I can't support going to first reading
12:01:48 because lake you said three years we have been going
12:01:50 and city and TECO has been back and forth, back and
12:01:53 forth, have been to us I don't know how many times and
12:01:56 now comes an agreement, the city is pleased, TECO is
12:01:59 pleased, so what are we going to hold it up for?
12:02:01 I am not going to hold it up for first reading.
12:02:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman, if we can clarify
12:02:06 the time of the first reading so it's a time when the
12:02:09 public knows they can come.
12:02:10 Like today was 11:00.
12:02:12 We can set a time.
12:02:14 So I would say that on November --
12:02:17 >> 6th.
12:02:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 6th that we set a very specific
12:02:21 time and give ourselves enough time to really
12:02:23 thoroughly vent it.
12:02:24 We have a regularly scheduled council meeting that day
12:02:31 at 9:30.
12:02:32 We have staff reports at 10:30.

12:02:35 I would like to set this then for 11:00 for a time
12:02:38 certain.
12:02:42 Or do you think it would be better, Madam Chairman, to
12:02:45 do it at 1:30?
12:02:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just so you know, I just want to be
12:02:49 clear, council, which is a record, I believe, 15 staff
12:02:56 reports, unfinished business, 10:30 a.m.
12:02:59 In the best of times if all goes well you would
12:03:01 probably have to carry those over to the afternoon.
12:03:04 >> 1:30.
12:03:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay, 1:30 then.
12:03:07 And this will be the first thing at 1:30.
12:03:10 >> You also have two closure hearings as well.
12:03:12 But if you want to set this first.
12:03:14 >> I would like to set this first for 1:30 on November
12:03:17 6th.
12:03:17 >> Second.
12:03:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder has a question.
12:03:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: A couple of things.
12:03:24 I don't know if I completely understand the intent of
12:03:26 the motion.
12:03:27 The motion is to set a first hearing but not set a

12:03:31 second hearing at all?
12:03:33 I want to get clarification on the motion, because if
12:03:37 it's first-second hearing which we often do on a lot
12:03:41 of ordinances then I am not going to support the
12:03:43 motion and I'll explain why.
12:03:44 If it's about first hearing just to get it out there
12:03:48 so we can have a more formal discussion and that sort
12:03:51 of thing, but then we will decide at a future point,
12:03:55 you know, when we get second hearing, that might be
12:03:58 something I could deal with.
12:04:00 You're the maker of the motion.
12:04:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: As maker of the motion is this,
12:04:04 that it's certainly encumbant as elected officials we
12:04:09 put it on first hearing and once that has four votes
12:04:12 or the other side has four votes, one side has four
12:04:15 votes, postpone it to when the cows come back to Ybor
12:04:19 City, which they were.
12:04:20 Then the other council may have it.
12:04:23 Or if you have four votes to say let's continue with
12:04:25 this thing, I just want to get it moving.
12:04:28 I mean, for almost three years.
12:04:31 I've never seen anything last this language for three

12:04:33 years.
12:04:34 The attorney fees here must be exorbitant.
12:04:37 Not that you are not entitled to them.
12:04:39 Like when I go to the doctor, I don't care what the
12:04:42 fee is, just cure me.
12:04:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I appreciate the clarification, Mr.
12:04:46 Miranda.
12:04:48 There are two compelling reasons to me to put off the
12:04:53 final decision on this for, I would say, four to six
12:04:59 months.
12:04:59 For one thing -- and I don't know, council, you have
12:05:02 received comments from some people in the community.
12:05:06 I have an e-mail here that I will put in the record
12:05:09 from Deana LAVENgood, a nonpartisan grassroots,
12:05:17 government and citizens working to balance natural,
12:05:19 social and economic resource in the Tampa Bay region.
12:05:22 They have been working on this issue.
12:05:23 They urge council to provide an adequate period of
12:05:25 time, at least six months, for city staff, energy
12:05:29 experts and the public to review the franchise
12:05:31 agreement, identify priorities, make recommendations,
12:05:35 define true costs and prior to final execution and

12:05:40 contract.
12:05:40 Okay, that request, plus the request we have heard
12:05:44 from these folks who are very well versed and very
12:05:47 informed on these issues, to me is a compelling reason
12:05:51 to put up the final decision for a period of time.
12:05:57 The other part is -- and, Tom, I am not disagreeing
12:06:01 with you or Chip on this issue.
12:06:03 I'm not saying we can put the conservation renewable
12:06:05 sustainable issues into this agreement.
12:06:08 Okay.
12:06:09 But I think, again, right now, we are working on this
12:06:13 agreement.
12:06:14 This will be a good time to put those other issues
12:06:17 into another agreement.
12:06:19 If the mayor has a draft, let us see the draft F.the
12:06:22 mayor is working on this, fine.
12:06:23 But we should do these hand in hand.
12:06:26 They should walk together just like we are talking
12:06:28 MacKay Bay together with this agreement.
12:06:30 The conservation agreement between the City of Tampa
12:06:32 and TECO that addresses these issues, that the
12:06:36 community wants to work on should be something to work

12:06:42 on over the next four to six months and put them all
12:06:44 in a package and run with them together.
12:06:46 That only makes sense.
12:06:47 If we do it piecemeal we have lost any leverage that
12:06:50 we might possibly have with the fine folks at TECO.
12:06:53 And I just call it like I see it.
12:06:55 Unfortunately, last night I couldn't call it like I
12:06:58 wanted.
12:07:01 >> One run short.
12:07:02 >> But, anyway, I don't know why there's an urgency to
12:07:05 go to first reading within the next week or two.
12:07:09 Because I just, you know, this agreement is probably,
12:07:13 you know, okay.
12:07:14 I would like to see a few little things tweaked.
12:07:16 I would like to see the city have an option like
12:07:18 winter park did and some of the other communities did.
12:07:21 I would like to see a few little things tweaked like
12:07:24 that.
12:07:24 But this agreement is okay.
12:07:25 So why do we go to first reading on it?
12:07:27 Why don't we just say, put the whole thing off until
12:07:30 like February, which would be a compromise?

12:07:33 That would be four months, you know, and would give
12:07:35 people over the Christmas holiday to work on this.
12:07:38 And also, I think we have to have a night meeting.
12:07:40 What are we doing with an 11 or one o'clock meeting
12:07:45 during the day?
12:07:45 These people can come up, six or seven of them, many
12:07:48 of them are involved in this professionally so they
12:07:50 can come here.
12:07:51 But this isn't Joe Citizen or Josephine citizen.
12:07:55 >> Joe Plumber.
12:07:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Or Joe the plumber.
12:07:59 I don't know.
12:08:00 I'll see ultimately where the motion goes.
12:08:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this, Mr. Attorney,
12:08:09 outside counsel.
12:08:12 Does this in any way prohibit me or any other citizen
12:08:15 from doing what he would want to do to our property to
12:08:18 create our own energy?
12:08:19 >>> No.
12:08:25 >> Does this prohibit the city from going out and
12:08:28 putting solar or whatever energy in the future is
12:08:31 available to produce energy without using TECO or any

12:08:36 other company that might be involved in the electric
12:08:40 business of producing energy?
12:08:43 >>> No.
12:08:43 >> So then where is the fight?
12:08:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have it.
12:08:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's hear from TECO before we carry
12:08:54 this motion.
12:08:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Because for three years, I mean --
12:08:57 go on.
12:08:57 >>> Thank you.
12:08:58 Tom Hernandez, vice-president for energy supply for
12:09:01 Tampa Electric Company.
12:09:03 I appreciate the three minutes you afford me today in
12:09:05 answering your questions.
12:09:06 Let me just say I would like to further the discussion
12:09:09 not at this time but with any of you here to make sure
12:09:13 they understand the facts, and to take the emotion out
12:09:16 of it.
12:09:16 This is a business transaction, but it is legally we
12:09:19 have the right and the ability to serve you.
12:09:21 So it very different than any other franchise
12:09:24 agreement that you have before you.

12:09:26 I totally agree with your internal counsel and outside
12:09:31 counsel in terms of the legal points that have been
12:09:32 discussed so far.
12:09:35 They are current.
12:09:36 Our position is we do not intend to offer, or to put
12:09:39 an end to any other franchise except for the one that
12:09:41 was noted before with the city of Oldsmar, to build
12:09:44 either by the franchise.
12:09:47 Or by our infrastructure within the city limits.
12:09:49 >> Why?
12:09:50 >> There's no point.
12:09:53 I don't want to speak to the administration.
12:09:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, why?
12:09:56 You said TECO refuses to do that.
12:09:58 Why?
12:09:58 >>> Yes, sir.
12:09:59 I mean, running an electric business is very complex.
12:10:03 It's more complex daily it seems like with federal
12:10:06 regulations, state regulations, environmental, we are
12:10:11 becoming even more heavily regulated than you can
12:10:13 imagine right now.
12:10:15 Significant costs, strengthening of the distribution

12:10:18 and transmission system from the Public Service
12:10:19 Commission.
12:10:21 And just to clarify, when it comes to retail service,
12:10:24 row tail rates, that's under the purview and control
12:10:27 of the Florida Public Service Commission, it does not
12:10:29 belong in this agreement.
12:10:31 Transmission costs.
12:10:32 >> Wait a minute.
12:10:34 Answer my focused question.
12:10:36 My focused question is, okay, as an option, sometime
12:10:42 between now and the next 25 years, day okay, you're
12:10:45 saying that TECO would not allow the citizens of Tampa
12:10:48 to take over its own power transmission, okay.
12:10:54 >>> We are not at this point or in the future, in the
12:10:56 25-year future, looking to sell the investment in this
12:10:59 community.
12:11:00 It goes beyond the lines and poles.
12:11:03 We have been in this community since 1899.
12:11:06 >> And why wouldn't TECO -- teak to to me is part of
12:11:09 the community.
12:11:10 I mean, many of but are investors, part of the
12:11:14 community, et cetera, et cetera.

12:11:15 I'm not saying it would happen.
12:11:16 I'm not saying it should happen.
12:11:18 I'm just saying why wouldn't TECO allow that as an
12:11:20 option, and something that we would put in the
12:11:22 contract for some future community to decide upon?
12:11:27 Because you and I don't know what the conditions are
12:11:28 going to be.
12:11:29 >>> We don't.
12:11:30 >> And maybe it's in the best interest of the city of
12:11:35 residents to possibly have that option down the road
12:11:37 just like all these other cities do.
12:11:38 I mean, Jacksonville runs their own very complicated
12:11:41 electric authority, as Gainesville and Orlando.
12:11:45 Those citizens do it.
12:11:46 So are you saying the Tampa people are somehow
12:11:49 different than Orlando people or Jacksonville people
12:11:51 and we are incapable?
12:11:52 >>> No, sir.
12:11:53 I'm just trying to articulate the position taken by
12:11:55 this administration.
12:11:56 >> No, not the administration.
12:11:57 >>> I'm also --

12:11:59 >> Can't articulate for the mayor.
12:12:01 You can only articulate for TECO.
12:12:03 >>> Yes, sir.
12:12:03 >> So why wouldn't TECO have faith in the citizens of
12:12:06 Tampa in some future decade to want to be able to do
12:12:09 that?
12:12:10 Why?
12:12:10 >>> We are not offering that.
12:12:12 It's not in this agreement.
12:12:13 We discussed this multiple times over the last three
12:12:16 and a half years.
12:12:17 We actually started this process midyear, 2005.
12:12:21 We don't intend to put this in this agreement.
12:12:23 >> Sort of like the parent, "because I said so."
12:12:29 That's what I'm hearing.
12:12:31 I mean, we are encouraging people, you are intelligent
12:12:36 people, if you can articulate a reason --
12:12:39 >>> The City of Tampa as you all know rents a
12:12:41 significant percentage of our Tampa Electric
12:12:45 customers.
12:12:47 The citizens of the City of Tampa are also Tampa
12:12:48 Electric commerce, TECO gas customers.

12:12:52 We have an interest in this city as well as the other
12:12:55 cities we serve, and the counties that we serve.
12:12:59 So clearly it is not in our shareholder, our companies
12:13:03 best interest or the customers best interest to put
12:13:05 any of that type of provision in any future agreement.
12:13:08 I can't account for why it in the one agreement.
12:13:10 I wasn't involved with that.
12:13:12 It is in the city of Oldsmar agreement, apparently,
12:13:15 that was 1994 negotiated.
12:13:17 It is not our intent to do that in any future existing
12:13:20 agreement.
12:13:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern.
12:13:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have another question.
12:13:31 This has been going on for years.
12:13:35 Another four to six month wouldn't be a difference for
12:13:37 the community to have input and to be involved.
12:13:39 But more specifically, Chip alluded to a conservation
12:13:43 agreement that you guys and the mayor have been
12:13:47 looking into awhile back, or conservation issues, that
12:13:50 sort of thing.
12:13:52 Is that something that you believe you could work on
12:13:54 with the mayor over the next, you know, three, four,

12:13:57 six months?
12:13:58 >>> I believe we have had numerous discussions with
12:14:00 the mayor and myself and Chuck Black, the president of
12:14:04 Tampa Electric Company.
12:14:06 We have articulated what we are obligated to do under
12:14:08 flan legislative law, under the flan Public Service
12:14:11 Commission.
12:14:12 I think a lot of the folks are not aware there's a
12:14:15 renewable portfolio standard going on right now.
12:14:19 And I implore those of you sitting up here as part of
12:14:23 the council members, folks that live in the City of
12:14:24 Tampa, the representations made here today.
12:14:29 I agree with a lot of things that are being said.
12:14:31 I think the emotion, I think we need to work on facts
12:14:35 but it needs to be brought to the folks that are
12:14:37 making the rules, because we have to follow the rules.
12:14:39 And we are not going to put anything in the franchise
12:14:41 agreement, and we will be very careful --
12:14:45 >> That isn't my question.
12:14:46 My question was --
12:14:48 >>> Yes, we have had meetings about it, discussion
12:14:50 busy it.

12:14:50 >> And do you have any intent or desire or ability to
12:14:53 work on those conservation renewable energy issues in
12:14:57 a side agreement with the city by working with the
12:15:00 mayor, not the franchise agreement.
12:15:04 We have been advised that's an inappropriate place.
12:15:06 Not the Public Service Commission, because frankly we
12:15:08 have little if any droll control up at the PSA but
12:15:13 with the mayor working on those issues, that affect
12:15:16 350 that you people in the City of Tampa, a long with
12:15:18 the rest of your customer base.
12:15:19 >> To the extent that any type of memorandum of
12:15:21 understanding or any side agreement as you refer to
12:15:25 come parts with Florida law, and come parts with the
12:15:28 ability of Tampa Electric to recover those costs per
12:15:31 the Public Service Commission rules and regulation,
12:15:34 absolutely.
12:15:34 I mean, we committed to that before.
12:15:36 We have had these conversations and discussions with
12:15:38 individual council members.
12:15:39 We have had multiple conversations with the staff.
12:15:44 What we won't do is commit to things that are beyond
12:15:46 that.

12:15:47 Our ability to recover the costs, our ability to
12:15:50 implement programs that are cost effective, and
12:15:52 beneficial to all of our rate payers.
12:15:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In that case, I would look forward
12:15:58 to you doing that very quickly with the mayor over the
12:16:01 next three to six months, and then that way we can
12:16:06 walk in tandem with this franchise agreement and the
12:16:09 MacKay Bay agreement and we can all sing Kum ba yah
12:16:14 six months from now.
12:16:15 >> I appreciate your reference more than once about
12:16:17 leveraging.
12:16:19 We are very nice corporate citizens.
12:16:20 Let me again state they are separate issues.
12:16:23 And to the extent if you are asking us to simply come
12:16:26 part with the rules that are going to be put in place,
12:16:28 we have to do that.
12:16:29 You don't have to ask us or put that in writing.
12:16:31 We must do that.
12:16:34 >> So you are not going to do anything more?
12:16:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Council members, hold it.
12:16:41 It's after 12.
12:16:42 How long are you all going?

12:16:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm good for now.
12:16:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: One last word.
12:16:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern and then that's it.
12:16:51 >>MARY MULHERN: I think it's clear that this is a
12:16:55 business, and they are putting their interest and it
12:16:59 seems obvious why they wouldn't want to agree to let
12:17:02 us have the option of buying them out.
12:17:06 On the other hand, I would like to hear from legal, or
12:17:11 Mr. Cloud, not today, whenever we schedule the next
12:17:15 hearing, I would like to hear from them why that can't
12:17:18 be part of the agreement.
12:17:20 I know, and trusted our attorney yesterday, to tell
12:17:25 me, you know, why all these agreements had to be
12:17:27 separate.
12:17:28 But I don't think -- it's not Clare to me why -- I
12:17:31 know we don't have time for that right now, but I
12:17:34 would like to know why they have to be separate.
12:17:36 And I think the suggestion that one of these people
12:17:40 made to low at other franchise agreements.
12:17:42 I think it needs to be in Florida.
12:17:44 I love to look at what people are doing in Santa
12:17:47 Monica.

12:17:48 But I think we need to look at what we are doing here.
12:17:50 So I'm hoping that Mr. Fletcher, you can give us, you
12:17:55 know, more of the legal background on why we can't
12:17:59 include any of this in the franchise agreement.
12:18:01 Because I don't -- it's not clear to me and I'm sure
12:18:04 it's not clear to a lot of citizens.
12:18:06 Then the other thing I would like to hear from you,
12:18:08 because I just heard this yesterday, and I know others
12:18:12 on council had never heard this, that the city is
12:18:16 actually lobbying to have -- with the state, with the
12:18:23 Public Service Commission, I guess, to have a
12:18:26 renewable portfolio standard.
12:18:28 And we don't know what those are, what we are doing.
12:18:33 So I would like to have a report on what the city is
12:18:35 doing, because it does seem pretty clear to me that we
12:18:40 have a private utility, and we need to change the
12:18:43 regulations at the state level and the federal level
12:18:47 if we are going to be able to require any kind of
12:18:51 reduction in greenhouse gas emissions.
12:18:54 So I think that's what we need to hear before we --
12:18:58 you know, we need clearer elucidation on why we can't
12:19:06 use the franchise agreement for any of these things.

12:19:09 And then also what we are doing to try to --
12:19:14 >>> If I could just briefly answer a couple of those
12:19:18 questions.
12:19:18 We did look at other franchise agreements in Florida
12:19:21 when we entered into these negotiations to get a sense
12:19:24 of what TECO has agreed to in the past, what other
12:19:27 utilities in Florida have agreed to in the past, and
12:19:29 we have a matrix that lays out the key provisions
12:19:32 which are included and we can go over that probably
12:19:39 easier one on one than in a full meeting, so you can
12:19:42 ask questions on different elements that are of more
12:19:46 interest to each individual council member.
12:19:48 So we have done that.
12:19:52 I guess the question related to whether or not we
12:19:55 could have a buyout provision.
12:19:57 I mean, legally we certainly could.
12:19:59 It's a question of whether or not we could get TECO oh
12:20:01 to agree to that at this point in time.
12:20:03 Legally it's important that this be an agreement
12:20:06 between the city and TECO.
12:20:09 And I think you have heard that that's something that
12:20:11 they are not going to agree to.

12:20:12 I think we pursued it very vigorously during the
12:20:15 negotiations, and ultimately decided that was one of
12:20:18 those issues we weren't going to prevail on.
12:20:23 And I would be happy to come back and report to you on
12:20:26 the portfolio standards, the comments the city has
12:20:29 provided to try and increase both the greenhouse gas
12:20:34 reductions and the percentage of renewable energy in
12:20:37 the mix, that is something that's ongoing.
12:20:41 In fact as we were sitting here I got another e-mail
12:20:44 about that with the new version so we can talk about
12:20:46 that.
12:20:46 I would be happy to do a workshop on that.
12:20:48 But that is clearly within the scope of the Florida
12:20:51 Public Service Commission and the federal energy
12:20:54 regulatory commission.
12:20:55 So I don't believe that it's appropriate for being an
12:21:00 element in a franchise agreement.
12:21:02 We can talk about that some more, at a workshop or
12:21:04 individually, if you would like.
12:21:08 >> Well, it relates to the goals that legally you are
12:21:10 telling us we can't accomplish with the franchise
12:21:13 agreement but it still the same goal that you all

12:21:16 have.
12:21:16 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: That's correct.
12:21:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
12:21:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Make your motion again.
12:21:23 >> I will.
12:21:23 Two very quick things.
12:21:25 First of all, all of you in the audience, all that
12:21:27 have spoken, all that are listening, all that read the
12:21:29 daily newspapers and others, call TECO. Ask them for
12:21:32 an energy audit.
12:21:33 They do it.
12:21:34 They do do it.
12:21:35 And they do a good job.
12:21:36 That's why my electric bill has gone down.
12:21:39 So they are helping all of us reduce our electric
12:21:44 consumption.
12:21:44 They do a good job and tell you what it is.
12:21:46 Secondly, it's incumbent upon us, three years or
12:21:53 whatever it is that we are going on this thing, you
12:21:54 know, I ask questions of the outside counsel about we
12:21:59 can start our own.
12:22:01 I could put a unit up, get my own electricity and use

12:22:04 theirs when mine doesn't create it.
12:22:06 I have a question about can the city do the same?
12:22:09 The answer is yes.
12:22:09 You don't have to buy from anybody.
12:22:11 If the city wants to go into the electric business, I
12:22:13 guess they can.
12:22:14 >> No, we can't transmit electricity.
12:22:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Wait a minute.
12:22:19 You have got to do your own, like me going into the
12:22:23 furniture business.
12:22:24 Can the city start their own electric company?
12:22:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
12:22:27 >>> What we can do is generate power like MacKay Bay.
12:22:31 We actually have some other things that we are looking
12:22:33 at, solid waste, some other parts of the city,
12:22:36 generate power.
12:22:37 We can sell that on the wholesale market.
12:22:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And right now, that venue you
12:22:42 talked about generates electricity for about 15,000
12:22:45 homes.
12:22:45 >>> That's my understanding.
12:22:48 >> My motion was to bring it back November the 6th

12:22:52 or whatever the council chooses for discussion.
12:22:55 If not, it's not going to -- I can see where we are
12:22:59 going now.
12:23:02 It will be years before this is brought up.
12:23:06 So I don't know what else you all want done.
12:23:09 But again I challenge all of you to reduce your
12:23:12 electric power and your water bill, and I hope you can
12:23:15 beat me, because every month I'll try a little harder.
12:23:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman?
12:23:24 A different time?
12:23:25 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I wanted to speak on the motion.
12:23:29 I haven't said anything yet.
12:23:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Get the second and then you can speak.
12:23:39 Go ahead and speak.
12:23:40 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: As I look at the utilities that
12:23:41 the city now runs, they are a mess.
12:23:43 I could see us 50 years from now, water lines, look
12:23:49 how much money we are spending.
12:23:52 We are not in the electrical business and when
12:23:53 shouldn't be in the electrical business.
12:23:57 Because we have to work -- our salary would have to
12:24:01 increase $200,000 a year for each member of this

12:24:04 council, unless we start a separate utility division.
12:24:10 But I cannot see this city -- because we are bad
12:24:13 business people, to tell you the truth.
12:24:15 That's my opinion.
12:24:16 TECO is very efficient.
12:24:19 Like Charlie said, if you want an audit they will come
12:24:22 out to your house and audit.
12:24:27 There are 496 pages, I think, I have been trying to
12:24:30 read here today.
12:24:31 I don't think we belong in the electrical business.
12:24:35 We should do what we do now.
12:24:37 Even that we don't do it that well.
12:24:40 Thank you.
12:24:41 >>GWEN MILLER: More motion is to continue, Mr.
12:24:44 Miranda?
12:24:45 What time on the 6th?
12:24:46 >> I don't care if it's a night meeting.
12:24:48 I'm not opposed to a night meeting.
12:24:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, on November 6th, you
12:24:56 have nine second readings.
12:25:02 9:30 you have staff reports.
12:25:04 Are starting at 10:30.

12:25:06 You have two closure hearings at 1:30 and an peel
12:25:10 hearing on the VRB at 1:30.
12:25:12 You have nothing scheduled for the night.
12:25:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 6:30 so have been has a chance to
12:25:17 be here.
12:25:18 It doesn't have to be at 6:00.
12:25:21 I move for November 6th at 6:30.
12:25:24 >>GWEN MILLER: We have 6:00 two closures?
12:25:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No no, you have nothing in the
12:25:29 evening after your arch session.
12:25:36 >>> 6:30 on the 6th.
12:25:37 Because I want everybody to have a chance to be here.
12:25:41 I don't really know.
12:25:44 They have to work.
12:25:44 I imagine they are all working.
12:25:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Our regular meeting starts at six.
12:25:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, but we are putting an end to
12:25:52 the agenda.
12:25:52 I don't want somebody to say, well, we could make it
12:25:56 5:01 but no one is going to be here.
12:25:57 I don't want to do that either.
12:26:00 >>GWEN MILLER: If they come at 6.

12:26:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: His motion said 30.
12:26:05 >>THE CLERK: Is this for discussion or a public
12:26:07 hearing?
12:26:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is a public hearing, first
12:26:10 reading.
12:26:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if I could clarify.
12:26:12 It seems to be the pleasure of council to direct the
12:26:14 clerk to not advertise for a second public hearing,
12:26:18 and at the first public hearing there will be a motion
12:26:21 as to what action will be taken subsequent to that.
12:26:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Right.
12:26:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's going to be set as a must be
12:26:27 hearing for 6:30.
12:26:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But the public can speak.
12:26:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Right.
12:26:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
12:26:33 All in favor?
12:26:34 (Motion carried)
12:26:35 Okay.
12:26:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: One other quick question. Let's
12:26:39 say, legal, let's say after this discussion that we
12:26:43 decided that some more things needed to be done.

12:26:46 We could discuss them at that time.
12:26:48 Right?
12:26:49 We can figure out where we go from there.
12:26:55 >>> In theory.
12:26:56 But I think you have to send it back to the
12:26:57 administration to necessity renegotiate this under
12:27:01 TECO.
12:27:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: On that same evening, I don't want
12:27:05 us to be limited in the public hearing.
12:27:07 Sometimes we have a public hearing and then other
12:27:09 subjects come up, and then council says, we can't talk
12:27:11 about anything else except what's in the public
12:27:14 hearing.
12:27:15 In this case the public hearing is to discuss the
12:27:17 franchise agreement.
12:27:19 Okay?
12:27:19 So I want to also establish, Marty, you can help me,
12:27:25 if it be a workshop, or a special discussion meeting,
12:27:27 to open either before or during or after, so that way,
12:27:34 when these fine folks and other folks come up, and
12:27:37 they want to discuss these other issues, that might be
12:27:40 related to a conservation agreement, or related to

12:27:45 MacKay Bay agreement, or to other issues, that aren't
12:27:49 just a franchise agreement, that we will have the
12:27:51 ability to allow them to also talk about it, and that
12:27:53 we can also talk about it.
12:27:55 So, you know, if you want to think about it a little
12:27:58 bit, we can do that this afternoon.
12:28:00 But I want us to have that flexibility.
12:28:03 Otherwise, we will find ourselves on that night being
12:28:07 extremely hamstrung.
12:28:11 >>> Council, I think it would be appropriate if you
12:28:13 want to expand the discussion to at least put people
12:28:14 on notice it's a public hearing, that you would also
12:28:18 discuss the issue of the conservation, potential
12:28:22 conservation agreement with TECO.
12:28:26 >> And MacKay Bay.
12:28:27 >>> And MacKay Bay.
12:28:29 And it would be appropriate to add that as part of the
12:28:30 discussion, if that's council's --
12:28:35 >>> I don't have a problem with that.
12:28:36 I just want to mention that we will have the MacKay
12:28:37 Bay agreement coming forward as well and ask whether
12:28:40 you want that heard in the morning with the regular

12:28:42 agenda, or would you like that contemporaneously with
12:28:45 this?
12:28:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So I'll make an additional motion
12:28:48 if it's appropriate, that at that time the clerk would
12:28:52 also advertise that we would have a council meeting,
12:28:55 and discussion, to discuss -- and MacKay Bay would be
12:29:00 on a specific agendaed item, and also that any other
12:29:05 related conservations, sustainability issues, could be
12:29:09 included.
12:29:10 And Marty, you can work with the clerk on the
12:29:12 appropriate language.
12:29:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe you have made it clear.
12:29:15 My understanding that the direction then to the
12:29:16 administration is to schedule the MacKay Bay
12:29:18 agreement, that would normally have appeared in the
12:29:21 morning agenda on the 6th, to have that appear on
12:29:23 the 6:30 agenda.
12:29:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Correct.
12:29:31 Oh, and I wanted to say one thing to Mr. Caetano.
12:29:34 Joseph, 25 years, long agreement.
12:29:36 I agree with you, 1,000% day.
12:29:39 We don't want to be in the utility business today.

12:29:40 We don't need to be in the utility.
12:29:44 They are doing an okay job, et cetera, et cetera.
12:29:46 And we have our plate full.
12:29:48 I agree with you.
12:29:48 But 25 years is a long time.
12:29:50 All I'm saying is that sometimes these agreements have
12:29:53 the option that a city could go into that business
12:29:57 down the road.
12:29:58 Okay.
12:29:59 The folks in Jacksonville do it and they do have a
12:30:01 separate board and separate electric authority.
12:30:03 The folks in Orlando do it.
12:30:05 They have been doing it for many, many years.
12:30:07 And I'm just saying that perhaps 15, 20 years from now
12:30:11 the citizens of Tampa, you know, might want to
12:30:14 possibly have that option.
12:30:15 But they wouldn't under this agreement.
12:30:17 >> You won't be here.
12:30:20 You will be over at the county commission, right?
12:30:23 [ Laughter ]
12:30:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Whatever.
12:30:24 >>MARY MULHERN: We'll all be under water.

12:30:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, there's still a motion and
12:30:33 second on the table.
12:30:34 Mr. Dingfelder's motion.
12:30:38 >>GWEN MILLER: There wasn't a second.
12:30:42 Question on the motion?
12:30:43 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't have a question on the motion.
12:30:44 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor say Aye.
12:30:46 Opposed, Nay.
12:30:49 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to say before we
12:30:51 adjourn, at 2:00, because I think a lot of people are
12:30:55 concerned about climate change and all of the things
12:31:01 that influence that, that we are having a public
12:31:04 special discussion meeting about community supported
12:31:06 agriculture, or urban agriculture, or victory gardens,
12:31:13 community gardens.
12:31:14 So anyone, if you can be here, I think we are going to
12:31:17 have a lot of people who do have expertise in this
12:31:20 area come and talk, and it's going to be an
12:31:22 informational and kind of a networking, brainstorming.
12:31:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We stand in recess until 1:30.

12:31:31 Tampa City Council Meeting
13:35:34 (1:30 p.m. no quorem)

14:00:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
14:00:04 I'm going to pound this because I never get to as
14:00:07 chairman.
14:00:07 [Sounding gavel]
14:00:08 This is not an official City Council meeting.
14:00:10 It's a special discussion meeting.
14:00:14 So I think we'll have at least one other council
14:00:19 member here soon, but it's just Linda and I.
14:00:24 I put this meeting on the agenda because I have been
14:00:27 talking to so many people and reading so much, even in
14:00:31 our local papers, about community gardening, about
14:00:34 local -- about growing local, and there just seemed to
14:00:43 be a real ground well of interest in this.
14:00:45 And I was hoping to, and I don't know if there are
14:00:51 people who just heard about our meeting.
14:00:53 But I basically see the information for us to share
14:00:57 with each other.
14:00:58 So we want to hear from everyone who is here about
14:01:02 what they are doing.
14:01:11 And also have poem not work with each other.

14:01:13 So if you get up to speak, please share your name and
14:01:16 contact information, either e-mail or phone number,
14:01:20 and, you know, say who you are and what your
14:01:22 involvement is in this area, and we can all hopefully
14:01:26 get in touch with each other.
14:01:30 There's some people from city departments here.
14:01:32 I'm hoping to see more.
14:01:35 But I don't know if we will be graced with their
14:01:39 presence.
14:01:40 And I just thought I would outline a few things, a few
14:01:43 reasons why I thought this was an important thing to
14:01:46 do at a public meeting for the City of Tampa.
14:01:50 Because of the benefits, the public benefits of
14:01:53 growing locally, growing organicically, and I'm just
14:01:57 going to name a few of them.
14:02:01 The obvious one is for our own health to grow things
14:02:06 locally, know what we are growing, know what products
14:02:10 we are using, and to be able to grow things
14:02:12 organically.
14:02:13 That's the obvious reason.
14:02:16 The second reason is because -- and these aren't in
14:02:19 any kind of order, just different reasons.

14:02:23 I think we can achieve, because of the economic
14:02:26 situation we are in and the high cost of fuel and
14:02:28 food, we can actually create some productivity,
14:02:33 perhaps some jobs, if not just actual food that we can
14:02:38 use in our own community, depending on how a garden or
14:02:47 community-supported agriculture, I guess, a farm,
14:02:50 although it can be anything from the little bit of
14:02:54 land I have in my backyard that isn't a approximately,
14:03:01 5 by 10 feet, that I can grow things, perhaps some
14:03:05 donated land, or people's front yards, or city land,
14:03:11 which is one of the things that I'm hoping we can hear
14:03:14 about today.
14:03:17 So there's all kinds of opportunities for it.
14:03:19 And one of the benefits that we would be able to
14:03:25 actually grow food, have a product, that could either
14:03:27 be consumed or sold.
14:03:33 I guess this is related to just the savings, because
14:03:37 of the costs now, the average food item, I think I
14:03:42 read, was from its place where it's produced, about
14:03:47 1500 miles.
14:03:48 This is the average product you buy in a grocery
14:03:52 store, to the grocery store, where you get in your car

14:03:56 and drive to the store to pick it up.
14:03:59 So I think that it's likely to be -- it is becoming
14:04:03 less and less affordable, less and less sustainable,
14:04:06 just as far as economically people being able to
14:04:10 afford it.
14:04:10 And then obviously the other reasons are for the
14:04:16 health of our air, water, the globe, basically,
14:04:22 because of all that fuel that's used and also the fuel
14:04:25 that's used in fertilizer.
14:04:29 It's really become really the way that we get our
14:04:36 crops and our food from so far away, just not a good
14:04:41 thing for the environment.
14:04:45 And obviously if we are planting more -- we talked
14:04:48 about today a little bit about Thom Snelling who is
14:04:52 here, who is our sustainability director, talked about
14:04:54 the things that the city is doing to be sustainable
14:04:57 and to be more green.
14:05:01 And one of the things you do just to take the carbon
14:05:04 out of the air is to plant plants.
14:05:06 So it's another obvious way that we can grow better.
14:05:12 So I'm guessing that everybody here knows as much or a
14:05:16 lot more about this than I do.

14:05:17 I have just been reading some books, the on the road
14:05:23 dilemma was I think a best sell theory talks about
14:05:25 food, how we eat today, where our food comes from, and
14:05:29 the ago rah business, and organic -- agri-business and
14:05:34 growing local.
14:05:36 So that's a great book.
14:05:37 I haven't read it yet but last Sunday's New York time
14:05:41 magazine had an article by him about food.
14:05:44 I think anybody can access that ononline.
14:05:49 I'll try to get it.
14:05:50 And if we get a list of people's e-mails I'll e-mail
14:05:53 the link to everyone here if they haven't read it.
14:05:56 There's a couple other books I read.
14:05:57 One of them was called plan B, and I can't remember
14:06:03 who the author is, but he's somebody who has been
14:06:07 writing about global resources for like 30 years or
14:06:11 something like that.
14:06:13 And this book talks about everything we can do,
14:06:17 everything that communities can do and government can
14:06:20 do to become more sustainable, so there are a lot of
14:06:22 great things in that book.
14:06:27 Plan B, what it's called.

14:06:29 The other great book I read which was more general,
14:06:33 but really looking at community supported agriculture
14:06:36 and growing locally in a much more hole 'tis Liss tick
14:06:41 way is called DB economy by bill McKinnon.
14:06:47 I still haven't figured out who he is but he's very
14:06:50 broad ranging knowledge.
14:06:51 I think he just might be a journalist.
14:06:54 He's not an economist but he writes about the economy
14:06:57 with the consideration of the cost of what we are
14:07:01 growing, and what we are doing, in development, and
14:07:05 what those costs have.
14:07:06 And I know, Linda, you have talked about this as the
14:07:12 bottom line, I think it's that same concept that when
14:07:15 we talk about economic benefits and economic growth,
14:07:18 we have to consider what the hidden costs and the
14:07:22 eventual costs of what we are doing, which would
14:07:25 include... so with that, if you want to add anything,
14:07:35 Linda, or John, and then -- ask people to come up and
14:07:40 talk about what they are doing.
14:07:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, one of the things at a
14:07:44 previous meeting in anticipation of this -- and I want
14:07:46 to thank you so much, Mary, for planting community

14:07:51 garden so we can have this.
14:07:53 You have asked the city to provide a list of what
14:07:55 property the city owns that might be available to us
14:07:59 for community gardens.
14:08:01 And I know there have been some community gardens in
14:08:04 the past.
14:08:04 There is one on Davis islands near the junior league
14:08:07 building.
14:08:08 There's one behind Robert E. Lee school in Tampa
14:08:11 Heights.
14:08:12 I don't know of any others.
14:08:13 But I think the city has a variety of pieces of land
14:08:16 that may or may not be available for community
14:08:19 gardens.
14:08:19 I would like to know what we have that's available and
14:08:23 what legal constraints we would have to make these
14:08:25 pieces of land available to the neighborhood
14:08:28 organization to create community gardens.
14:08:39 >>MARY MULHERN: I got some maps which I didn't think
14:08:41 blood pressure getting copies, but we'll get copies
14:08:43 for anyone who wants one.
14:08:47 The city has I guess a bunch of empty lots which is

14:08:51 East Tampa which is a community redevelopment area,
14:08:53 and I think a lot --
14:09:04 Thanks.
14:09:05 Members who are CRA districts are probably at a
14:09:08 conference across the street about Florida
14:09:10 redevelopment.
14:09:10 So I was hoping that Ed Johnson, who is the East Tampa
14:09:14 redevelopment agency director, would be here because
14:09:16 he's been working on different issues, investigating
14:09:24 and research, possible partnerships with USF.
14:09:28 And there is some land in East Tampa that might be
14:09:31 really great.
14:09:32 So hopefully he or someone from his staff will show up
14:09:35 at some point today and talk to us about that.
14:09:37 But I also think -- and I'll get copies of those maps
14:09:41 for anyone who wants them.
14:09:43 I think I also got some maps.
14:09:46 Did you get some maps the other day?
14:09:52 I'll find out from Christina if we have them, and we
14:09:54 can didn't them.
14:09:56 One of the things that when I started thinking about
14:09:59 this and talking to people, that I realized it's

14:10:04 because of how slowly things move in the city, it
14:10:11 might be a better idea for us to get not for profit
14:10:14 individuals, gardeners, anyone that's interested in
14:10:17 this topic to get together and talk about, you know,
14:10:19 maybe forming some kind of ad hoc committee or just
14:10:25 some kind of information.
14:10:32 Sweetwater farms.
14:10:34 I am going to have a lot of questions for him.
14:10:36 But there may be organizations that are already area,
14:10:40 regional, maybe networking or groups that are doing,
14:10:45 you know, for people who are doing community gardens,
14:10:47 so that we can learn from each other.
14:10:52 So I would hope that the city -- basically, we need to
14:10:58 have a community garden, you need land.
14:11:02 And as I said, it doesn't have to be anything bigger
14:11:04 than your own little plot in your front yard or
14:11:08 backyard, weather, and some -- water and some security
14:11:14 in the way of a fence. This might be something the
14:11:16 city can do, especially in the community redevelopment
14:11:18 areas, which we have nine different districts in the
14:11:20 city that are community redevelopment areas.
14:11:24 East Tampa is the largest one.

14:11:28 Downtown, Tampa Heights, Ybor City has two different
14:11:32 districts, Channelside, Drew Park.
14:11:37 So all different kinds of neighborhoods that are all
14:11:43 slotted for redevelopment, and whose tax base about
14:11:49 the time -- redevelopment areas, that money is
14:11:53 supposed to go back into redeveloping.
14:11:55 So that's a source of funding we might be able to tap
14:11:58 into.
14:11:58 But one of the things I was thinking about when I was
14:12:00 talking about the benefits is that there are so many
14:12:02 different benefits.
14:12:03 There's health benefits.
14:12:06 There's food security, which as you know is a homeland
14:12:10 security issue, there are a lot of opportunities for
14:12:16 to us find funding to do these sorts of -- these sorts
14:12:20 of things, too.
14:12:22 So with that, I'll make sure before we are done that I
14:12:25 get copies of these maps for anyone who wants them.
14:12:32 And councilman Dingfelder, I was just reminded, is our
14:12:36 agricultural expert on City Council.
14:12:38 And since we don't have a lot of agriculture in the
14:12:41 city, we don't hear about expertise on his part.

14:12:45 And we don't talk to each other.
14:12:47 We can't talk to each other about other things.
14:12:50 So I don't know what he's thinking about this.
14:12:51 So this is our opportunity to hear from him.
14:12:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mary.
14:12:57 I don't know about agriculture expert.
14:12:59 Many years ago, I achieved two grease, bachelors and
14:13:03 master's degree in agriculture, University of Florida
14:13:05 and Virginia tech.
14:13:08 And I'm glad to work with Rick Martinez in the
14:13:12 sweetwater program for the last year.
14:13:15 But it looks like there's a lot of people here, and I
14:13:17 think I'll defer and hear the wisdom of the community,
14:13:20 and then maybe we can discuss it afterwards.
14:13:25 >>MARY MULHERN: So anyone who wants to tell us what
14:13:27 they are doing.
14:13:30 Do you want to start out for us?
14:13:33 >>> There's a lot of familiar faces here.
14:13:43 First of all I would like to say "go Rays."
14:13:49 (ringing cowbell)
14:13:52 And I appreciate you guys holding this meeting.
14:13:54 I think this is the kind of thing that we need to

14:13:57 start doing.
14:13:57 Especially in the economic times we are looking at and
14:14:00 the cost of food and fuel.
14:14:05 The whole landscape is changing.
14:14:08 And just a little bit of my history.
14:14:10 I was an engineer.
14:14:12 Back in 1978.
14:14:14 I quit my job as an engineer with the county and told
14:14:18 my parents I was starting an organic farm and they are
14:14:20 like, what?
14:14:21 And I have been doing it ever since.
14:14:23 And I have worked all over the world in 40 different
14:14:26 countries with organic farming.
14:14:29 And I have a consulting business, and sweetwater is
14:14:32 just more my labor of love, my passion.
14:14:35 And also I want to talk a little about the history of
14:14:39 community gardens in our community in Tampa, and the
14:14:41 Tampa area.
14:14:42 There's been various, along the years -- and for
14:14:45 different reasons.
14:14:47 They have not made it.
14:14:48 They have not sustained.

14:14:49 And so I think that's something we really need to keep
14:14:53 in mind as we go forward and start forming these
14:14:57 ideas.
14:14:58 I would like to see us think a little more long range
14:15:01 and evaluate why these communities came and left and
14:15:04 didn't make it.
14:15:05 And learn from those mistakes and then trip along and
14:15:10 make the same mistakes.
14:15:12 And I think it would also be good to look at this from
14:15:14 all of the different angles that we talked about.
14:15:17 Community gardens, not only as a wonderful social
14:15:20 project that people can enjoy, and reconnect, and grow
14:15:25 a little of their own foods, but also in a broader
14:15:28 range that affects our community.
14:15:31 And so have community gardens that work in conjunction
14:15:34 with larger food-growing operations that may help
14:15:40 support food pantries, that can support the public
14:15:43 through membership such as in our farm, and then
14:15:54 support the whole cultural aspect.
14:15:55 It's a wonderful thing.
14:15:56 People come and enjoy it immensely.
14:15:58 It's just growing beyond our capacity to keep up with

14:16:01 it.
14:16:02 And so there's a lot of familiar faces, people doing
14:16:09 really good work, and can all add something to this
14:16:13 effort.
14:16:15 And with that said, on the other hand, most of us are
14:16:17 stretched beyond our capacity to do more with our
14:16:22 resources.
14:16:23 So that's going to be key.
14:16:24 When I look around my community where we are at, you
14:16:27 know, there's a county park 500 feet from our place.
14:16:31 And they have got a couple acres.
14:16:33 And all they have ever done with it the last 20 years
14:16:35 is mow it.
14:16:36 There is no park on it.
14:16:37 There's no kids using it.
14:16:39 There's no nothing.
14:16:40 And I approached the county and said, well, why don't
14:16:43 you let us use this acre and a half?
14:16:46 And you don't have to mow it.
14:16:48 The day you need it back, we'll give it back to you.
14:16:51 And that has never happened for some reason.
14:16:54 And there's lots of land like that all around.

14:16:56 You look in the churches have lots of land.
14:16:58 And there's lawn mowers running constantly and blowers
14:17:03 blowing constantly and all this effort going to
14:17:05 maintaining the grass.
14:17:06 Whereas there's organizations such as ourselves that
14:17:11 are in these communities that would love to be growing
14:17:13 food on it.
14:17:14 And it would be a reduction of effort on the
14:17:17 government side.
14:17:18 It would produce all this wonderful food.
14:17:20 And so those are the kind of thought processes, I
14:17:24 think, need to change.
14:17:27 I don't want to take up too much time.
14:17:31 I think funding a group who can really evaluate this
14:17:37 and create a network of resources for this to be
14:17:41 successful.
14:17:42 The community gardens that I have seen happen, the key
14:17:46 person leaves, the garden ends.
14:17:48 There's one out in suitcase city.
14:17:50 One in Wimauma has come and gone a few times.
14:17:55 >> The one in Wimauma?
14:17:57 >> I have heard that it's active again, but I know

14:17:59 that it stopped and start add few times.
14:18:01 And those were all started through the extension
14:18:03 service.
14:18:03 And the key person would get a promotion and go after
14:18:07 them so that slot would be vacant for awhile and the
14:18:10 community garden would fail.
14:18:16 What does it take to support a community garden?
14:18:18 There's going to need to be soil improvement.
14:18:21 We have got -- they create come post.
14:18:26 So those kind of resources are going to need to be
14:18:29 developed and supported, so each one of these
14:18:31 community gardens has what they need to survive, which
14:18:34 is soil improvement, water, and then the other things
14:18:37 you talked about, security, you know, seeds, and then
14:18:40 people.
14:18:46 So when you find all this wonderful land we need to
14:18:48 look at the bigger picture.
14:18:50 Don't just throw some resources, say, okay, we got a
14:18:53 garden, set up the fence, and we got a garden for a
14:18:56 little while.
14:18:57 We want this to be something that works long-term and
14:19:02 that can be connected with the larger support, you

14:19:05 know, support group that we can put together.
14:19:09 So that's about all I can think of right now.
14:19:11 I know that three of you all know about sweet water.
14:19:17 Is there anybody in here that would like to know about
14:19:19 sweetwater?
14:19:20 I guess we have done a good job.
14:19:23 >>MARY MULHERN: Do you still have membership
14:19:25 available?
14:19:26 >>> Yes, we have ten memberships left out of 290.
14:19:29 And then I guess you guys might have heard the tragedy
14:19:32 that happened in the last couple of weeks.
14:19:35 So we decided to -- fortunately, we started a new farm
14:19:40 up in Pasco County.
14:19:41 A friend of mine has 500 acres up there and we put in
14:19:43 ten acres of irrigation.
14:19:45 And also we are still running the bones farm which is
14:19:49 slated to become a soccer field, but we have that.
14:19:52 So fortunately we have been able to move our
14:19:54 production to our other two sites.
14:19:56 But you can see it's kind of -- we plan to keep ahead
14:20:02 of the effects of the city.
14:20:04 Then we have one piece that's good today.

14:20:07 And for some reason not able to use it tomorrow.
14:20:09 So fortunately we looked ahead far enough and have
14:20:13 been able to stay ahead of the effects of the
14:20:17 community around us when it impacts the lands that we
14:20:20 are using to grow.
14:20:22 >>MARY MULHERN: And your land in Pasco County, are you
14:20:24 leasing it or is it being --
14:20:27 >>> No, a friend of mine owns it.
14:20:29 And he's just growing on it.
14:20:31 And that part of the operation will be a for-profit
14:20:35 operation at his end.
14:20:37 He's growing, you know, food as part of our production
14:20:41 needs.
14:20:42 And then of course we have the Bern's steak house
14:20:45 property.
14:20:45 So we are ramping up production on those two fields
14:20:48 and giving our farm a rest for the next few months to
14:20:51 get through this environmental issue that happened out
14:20:53 there.
14:20:59 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, I just want to point out, it's
14:21:02 very interesting, that it is a business.
14:21:07 It can be a business.

14:21:08 Whether it's not for profit or for-profit.
14:21:10 So if we can get the city to think about investing in
14:21:15 it, it becomes something that could sustain itself
14:21:19 economically, I hope.
14:21:21 Not necessarily, but at least it's not -- you're not
14:21:25 throwing money away.
14:21:26 >> We have reached the point now, after 14 years,
14:21:30 where we are economically sustainable.
14:21:35 And so our budget went from, you know, $10,000, not
14:21:42 all that long ago, up to 300,000 now, and, you know,
14:21:48 with the resources, you know, we could feed this
14:21:52 entire town, you know.
14:21:53 We have the knowledge.
14:21:54 We have the capability.
14:21:56 And if you look at the amount of food we grow on those
14:22:01 small pieces of land, we feed roughly 300 families.
14:22:07 I would say less than five acres of land, six acres of
14:22:11 tillable land.
14:22:12 And so, you know, we have the ability.
14:22:23 We are able to spread at least different directions.
14:22:26 And, you know, we have a good set of farm managers now
14:22:28 that can manage their own farms.

14:22:31 And we can continue to do that.
14:22:32 We can continue to train new people and get them out
14:22:36 onto the pieces of land, if we have the resources.
14:22:39 You know, right now we have them to ourselves but we
14:22:45 have two guys that can go out and manage a farm.
14:22:48 >> You're a great resource for us.
14:22:50 And I think the other thing that you probably have
14:22:57 firsthand experience at this.
14:22:58 But the thing that really struck me when I started
14:23:01 reading about urban agriculture was that every other
14:23:08 city is doing it.
14:23:08 And Tampa is trying to, you know, maybe get started.
14:23:11 But it's something that's happening, you know, in the
14:23:14 most unlikely places -- New York, London, Chicago,
14:23:19 everywhere.
14:23:20 So it's probably -- people here who are into this, but
14:23:27 other people, what are you talking about, growing in
14:23:29 urban areas?
14:23:31 But it's also really just kind of going back to -- I
14:23:34 think as my grandparents, my Italian side, they had a
14:23:37 little house in Detroit, and in their backyard they
14:23:40 had a goat and they had grape vines, so it's

14:23:46 really -- -- we just need to go back.
14:23:57 It's kind of a traditional thing.
14:23:59 We need to think of that the way, too.
14:24:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Quick question.
14:24:02 Rick, I'm curious about the model.
14:24:06 When I was an undergrad in Gainesville in the 70s, I
14:24:10 remember right across the street from lake Alice, they
14:24:15 have a law school there, a community garden, for those
14:24:18 older gators out there who might remember that.
14:24:21 Maybe it's still there, I don't know.
14:24:22 But everybody had their own individual plots.
14:24:25 I had a couple of semesters.
14:24:26 My roommates and I had a plot of our own that was
14:24:29 probably 20 by 20 feet or something.
14:24:31 I don't know.
14:24:32 But, you know, we did our thing and then we had a
14:24:35 little fence or something.
14:24:38 And then the next people had their own.
14:24:39 So there was like 50 families or groups or whatever,
14:24:43 and everybody had their own.
14:24:45 Which is, you know, clearly different from your model
14:24:48 which is sweet water, everybody is sort of doing it

14:24:53 together, and then reaping the harvest together, as
14:24:57 opposed to separately.
14:24:59 And then other cities, I have been trying to be more
14:25:03 observant.
14:25:05 I was in D.C. recently with my daughter, and again I
14:25:08 saw some little individual plot type things.
14:25:11 But I would guess they probably also have your type of
14:25:14 model as well.
14:25:16 So, you know, over the years, how these different
14:25:20 models worked out, that's one thing.
14:25:22 Other observation is it's kind of strange, sort of
14:25:25 body double.
14:25:26 Because usually I see you in T-shirts and me in ties.
14:25:30 [ Laughter ]
14:25:32 We kind of got swapped.
14:25:34 >>> Well, I don't get to wear this very often.
14:25:37 Today was my chance.
14:25:38 >> Get that one tie out of the closet.
14:25:40 >>> Yeah.
14:25:44 >> I have a consulting business.
14:25:54 That's my real job.
14:25:55 We have clients such as target, Domino sugar, craft,

14:26:00 Proctor and gamble.
14:26:01 So I do wear my tie a little more often than you do
14:26:05 manage.
14:26:05 But back to your question.
14:26:06 You know, we live a busy life.
14:26:11 All of us are very busy.
14:26:13 And we decided early on we weren't going to do the
14:26:15 individual plot style, because, you know, people's
14:26:20 interests and their availability Wayne.
14:26:25 So the community garden style, where everyone has
14:26:28 their own plot, somebody has to have a heck of a lot
14:26:30 of time to manage that.
14:26:32 I mean, even managing our yards is a job, and having a
14:26:36 vegetable garden at a remote plot really involves
14:26:40 someone having plenty of time to be there.
14:26:42 And so that's why we decided people could contribute
14:26:48 when and if they have time, and as infrequently as
14:26:52 they like and still have success, because we have
14:26:54 state employees there making sure all the essential
14:26:56 things happen.
14:26:58 And I think that's been key to our success, is getting
14:27:03 the community involved, but still having having

14:27:06 somebody there day in and day out making sure the
14:27:08 water is there, the preps are taken care of,
14:27:12 everything is planted at the right time, and in
14:27:15 Florida gardening timing is having.
14:27:16 If you don't have everything in at the right time.
14:27:18 And I think that's also been a challenge for some of
14:27:20 the community gardens.
14:27:21 If you have been in the community gardens, you will
14:27:24 see some plots.
14:27:25 A few of them are doing well.
14:27:26 And the majority are either doing okay or terrible.
14:27:31 And it's because it's a huge commitment to have a plot
14:27:34 like that, and to maintain it, especially if it's not
14:27:37 at your home.
14:27:38 And so that's what I'm envisioning, something for our
14:27:42 community, for Tampa, is that we have a little bit of
14:27:45 each, that we'll offer those though want their own
14:27:52 plot and don't have a piece of land, and really need
14:27:55 to enter into those agreements with people with the
14:27:57 understanding if we are going to give you this plot of
14:27:59 land, we have a certain expectation that you are going
14:28:01 to commit the time.

14:28:04 And then maybe at that same location, how the
14:28:06 community gardens, everybody works together.
14:28:10 And so they are not committed to not having to be
14:28:15 there every day, you know, because that's what it
14:28:19 takes for a garden to survive.
14:28:21 When it's not raining you have to be there every day
14:28:23 to water it.
14:28:24 And you have got to be there every day to make sure
14:28:26 the pests aren't proliferating.
14:28:28 So I think when you do these things, it going to be
14:28:32 wise to have a little place where people can have
14:28:34 their own plots but maybe a bigger space, where people
14:28:37 can come and just Chip into the community plot.
14:28:42 And I'd like to get a lot of other people time.
14:28:45 I know I have already taken a big chunk of time.
14:28:48 >> I saw Carla price behind you, she's with our parks
14:28:53 department.
14:28:53 I wonder if Carla can briefly say, is it something the
14:28:56 city has engaged in, could engage in?
14:28:59 If she could just come up for a second and share that.
14:29:03 Because I think we want then to happen here, and to
14:29:08 the degree that we could be facilitators.

14:29:13 >> I know Andrea start add community guard Nen
14:29:16 St. Pete.
14:29:16 So they are actually operating and she could probably
14:29:18 speak to you as well.
14:29:21 Thanks a lot.
14:29:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Can I make a different suggestion?
14:29:26 Because Barb McDonough is here from one of our CRAs.
14:29:33 Can we hear from people who are gardening now?
14:29:35 And then I do want to hear from everybody -- anyone
14:29:39 who is on staff, especially so that people who work in
14:29:42 the city know what other departments are doing, too.
14:29:54 Even if you are just gardening organically in your
14:29:58 yard.
14:30:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Tell us your stories.
14:30:02 >>> Kathy bird, with green Heights development, 402
14:30:06 east oak Avenue.
14:30:08 Just up the street.
14:30:10 My husband and I actually have a kitchen garden and
14:30:15 have maintained one for almost as long as we have had
14:30:19 a house in South Tampa which is ten years, and the
14:30:22 lots tend to be larger, and we have a 20-foot side
14:30:28 yard setback, so we have actually got 20 feet on the

14:30:32 sunny side of the yard, and we implemented as a bed
14:30:35 garden which is extraordinarily easy to maintain.
14:30:38 And it's been exclusively an organic garden.
14:30:42 We don't use any chemical pesticides of any type.
14:30:45 We allow nature to take care of itself.
14:30:49 The first year that we planted the garden we probably
14:30:51 lost 50% of it to pests.
14:30:53 But we had been told that if we were patient that --
14:30:57 and not bring in chemicals and pesticides and that
14:30:59 kind of stuff, that predatory pests will prey on other
14:31:05 predatory pests, and now at this point I don't think
14:31:08 we lose even 10% of our garden.
14:31:10 We don't use any chemical pesticides.
14:31:12 We have befriended a dairy farmer, local, out in
14:31:16 Brandon, who allows us to go out and utilize this
14:31:19 natural come post, and bring it in.
14:31:21 And so every year we bring in a fresh match.
14:31:25 And that makes a big difference.
14:31:27 We really -- maybe we have mineral deficiencies but I
14:31:35 don't think our vegetables know it.
14:31:37 We know it but we don't really quite care.
14:31:40 I do come from a community.

14:31:41 I came here from Denver, Colorado, where they did have
14:31:44 a community garden, in that case it wasn't acres and
14:31:49 acres.
14:31:49 It was probably an acre and a half.
14:31:54 It was very much a neighborhood garden where you walk
14:31:56 to the.
14:31:56 Nobody was getting in their cars and driving to the.
14:31:58 It wasn't this huge effort.
14:31:59 It was owned by the Mims garden club of Denver.
14:32:03 And what they did, in that case, in Denver you
14:32:07 actually have a growing season.
14:32:09 Here we have growing seasons, we have two primary
14:32:13 growing seasons.
14:32:14 There they have one.
14:32:15 And they plot it out and put like 20-foot plots that
14:32:18 you rent it.
14:32:23 You pay $2 every season per lot.
14:32:28 10 by 20.
14:32:32 They plot them for you and for $2 every season you
14:32:35 rent it, for every plot you rent it.
14:32:37 I usually would rent two plots, 20 by 20-foot section.
14:32:40 Quite frankly that was all I wanted to can.

14:32:43 To care for.
14:32:44 They provided all of the seeds and all of the starts
14:32:48 of the vegetables that grow in that region so you
14:32:50 didn't make the mistake of planting things that
14:32:52 weren't appropriate for the area, or plant them in the
14:32:55 wrong season or things like that.
14:32:57 So you already have a bit of success.
14:33:02 The wells were privately owned and in Denver at least
14:33:05 at that time could you drill a well, and it was well
14:33:08 water that furnished the water for all the plots.
14:33:11 They provided the hoses and kept the pathways clean.
14:33:14 But your plot was your plot.
14:33:16 And it was yours to take care of.
14:33:17 If, however, the weeds became larger than the plants,
14:33:22 they took back possession of the lot and they would
14:33:27 allow someone else to acquire it if they wanted to.
14:33:29 >> It's like a foreclosure proceedings?
14:33:33 >> They did.
14:33:34 And it was a sad problem.
14:33:36 >> There goes your $4.
14:33:40 It never happened to me.
14:33:41 But as far as like maintaining the lots, would you get

14:33:45 to know your neighbor, and like somebody going on
14:33:53 vacation, you would know, would you mind watering my
14:33:57 plant?
14:33:57 So did you check about every other day would you check
14:34:00 it out.
14:34:01 You would pluck a few weeds, water plants, but it was
14:34:05 all hand watering.
14:34:06 There was no mechanic nation so you didn't get into a
14:34:09 lot type of maintenance.
14:34:10 I'm not sure how practical or realistic that is here.
14:34:13 But one of the things I would like to encourage is if
14:34:15 we are really looking at an urban condition is to
14:34:18 allow it to be neighborhood, and if it fails, then if
14:34:25 the neighborhood isn't really assistant interestd is
14:34:27 what my take would be, and if it succeeds, I really
14:34:31 think if it's accessible and it's reasonable, that it
14:34:34 can be done.
14:34:34 I think it can be made very elaborate and very
14:34:37 complicated.
14:34:41 And I did that for almost ten years.
14:34:43 The men's garden club has it.
14:34:48 And nobody rented for the summer.

14:34:50 So weeds would take over.
14:34:51 >>MARY MULHERN: Who owned the land?
14:34:55 >>> Was owned by the garden club.
14:34:57 But I believe the way they came to own it was one of
14:35:03 their former members.
14:35:04 >> And how many people or how many plots?
14:35:07 >>> Some people would take several lots.
14:35:16 I'll bet there were well over 100 individual lots.
14:35:19 Some families would take as many as 10 and 12 adjacent
14:35:24 lots, and they were, you know, really committed to it.
14:35:32 But every given hour of pretty much every day, there
14:35:36 were several somebodys.
14:35:37 >> What neighborhood do you live in now?
14:35:39 >> I live in Maryland manor.
14:35:43 >> Where is that?
14:35:44 >>> I actually live on Leona, south of Bay to Bay,
14:35:48 between Dale Mabry and Manhattan.
14:35:52 Almost a neighborhood garden because it's become sort
14:35:54 of everyone's science project.
14:35:56 And everyone's kids come over tore see what tomatoes
14:35:59 look like when they grow cucumbers.
14:36:01 >> Do you think it would work if there were some land

14:36:04 available in your neighborhood?
14:36:05 Do you think there are enough people that something
14:36:07 like you had in Denver would work there?
14:36:09 >> I think it would be if there was somebody who would
14:36:14 be the initial instigator because I think for a lot of
14:36:18 folks you hear it but it doesn't mean anything to you,
14:36:20 so you don't pursue it.
14:36:22 And then as soon as you -- then what happened is now
14:36:25 some of our adjacent neighbors, who have children, now
14:36:28 have container gardens, and they are growing lettuce
14:36:31 and stuff.
14:36:31 And it's kind of taking off a little bit.
14:36:34 And my husband and I are out there, you know, every
14:36:37 morning or every other morning, and people are always
14:36:41 walking their dogs and coming by.
14:36:43 And they'll see us come on over and see what's going
14:36:45 on.
14:36:45 And that's what seems to generate the interest.
14:36:50 Somebody is doing it because they are going to do it
14:36:51 anyway and others start to get kind of excited.
14:36:54 So it really more infectious.
14:36:56 As opposed to, you know --

14:36:59 >> Right.
14:36:59 That's what I was thinking.
14:37:01 We want to get some things started here.
14:37:03 But there are things that if there are people who have
14:37:08 their own organic, you know, vegetable garden, edible
14:37:12 garden, if even we had a met work and you are willing
14:37:16 to, you know, let other gardeners or people interested
14:37:19 come and see it, that might be one of the things that
14:37:22 kind of neighborhood gardening.
14:37:27 >> Absolutely.
14:37:28 And you can almost drive by and see it, you know.
14:37:31 You almost don't need to get out of your car.
14:37:35 We have a pretty little gate and stuff but I would
14:37:39 encourage anybody to contact me, and I think the city
14:37:44 pretty much knows how to reach me.
14:37:47 By the way, I am doing certified green affordable
14:37:50 housing in the East Tampa CRA.
14:37:52 Did you know that?
14:37:55 Yeah.
14:37:56 Getting ready to break ground in about 30 days on our
14:37:58 first certified green, on one of the in-fill lots in
14:38:04 East Tampa.

14:38:04 >> Take advantage of our incentive plans.
14:38:07 >> I am at the front of the line.
14:38:11 >> Our rebates, too.
14:38:12 >> Yes.
14:38:13 As a matter of fact, that was just formally rolled out
14:38:16 to me about -- probably about three weeks ago.
14:38:19 I knew it was in the works.
14:38:21 I didn't know --
14:38:22 >> Ended up being October 1st.
14:38:25 >> Okay.
14:38:26 So, yes.
14:38:27 I'm taking advantage of all of that.
14:38:29 I'm very excited.
14:38:30 But that's what you guys were talking about earlier.
14:38:33 There are some parcels that are just simply
14:38:35 unbuildable lots.
14:38:36 There's nothing wrong.
14:38:40 It's just too small to do anything with.
14:38:42 That may be a perfect component now.
14:38:45 You know, how much is security an issue?
14:38:48 And I can't really speak to that because I don't
14:38:50 really know.

14:38:54 Ments.
14:39:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We are informal today. Just come
14:39:06 up.
14:39:06 >>> I figured.
14:39:08 >>MARY MULHERN: We didn't put a time limit on.
14:39:10 But raise your hand if you want to speak.
14:39:17 So we can get an idea of how many people.
14:39:19 Okay.
14:39:19 So five minutes would be good.
14:39:21 Is that enough?
14:39:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll just ring this cowbell.
14:39:28 [ Laughter ]
14:39:33 Carry on.
14:39:34 >>> I was really inspired by the previous speaker
14:39:36 especially when I found out that she was just a block
14:39:38 away from me.
14:39:39 And I have an organic garden, too.
14:39:43 And we ought to get together.
14:39:45 But I have lived in South Tampa -- my name is SIGRID,
14:39:52 3809 Corona street.
14:39:54 I live and work in the city as well.
14:39:58 I am the director and president for healthy together

14:40:02 which is an organization that Mott efforts the people
14:40:08 to take more control of their own health and
14:40:10 well-being and then connects them to resources.
14:40:13 And the organization is a nonprofit.
14:40:14 It's about three years old now.
14:40:18 And we have done a variety of projects, some of which
14:40:21 we kind of have Rick come and consult with us on
14:40:25 experimenting doing community gardening.
14:40:27 And we have had mixed results with those, and they
14:40:31 caused a backup.
14:40:32 We learned a very, very important lesson that I think
14:40:35 bears mentioning anytime we look at a community
14:40:37 garden.
14:40:39 Our area of interest was West Tampa.
14:40:41 We were particularly interested at the time in the
14:40:45 West Tampa area around just elementary, Blake high
14:40:50 school, and we worked with the city to help identify a
14:40:54 variety of plots down there.
14:40:56 And our concept was to use it for the school so
14:40:59 that -- because many of these young people think that
14:41:03 tomatoes come out of cans, and eggs come out of
14:41:06 Styrofoam carton, and we wanted to do something that

14:41:10 would demonstrate more interest in food supply.
14:41:14 Now, you have to consider where these people live, if
14:41:18 you draw a three-mile radius, that's the closest
14:41:23 grocery store is three miles away, but there's ten
14:41:25 fast food stores in that area.
14:41:30 So we really want to make access to fresh vegetables.
14:41:35 And one of our first ideas was to recruit Rick to come
14:41:38 in, and he did help us with a lot of consultation.
14:41:41 We identified some school property plots, covered it
14:41:44 with black visqueen, eventually we did get some, you
14:41:50 know, soil amendments going.
14:41:52 One of the things that we learned was that you cannot
14:41:55 just run a hose off the faucet from city water, and
14:42:01 irrigation is not sufficient that way because we have
14:42:04 chlorine in our water and it kills the bacteria in the
14:42:07 soil and it kills the worms that will -- that are used
14:42:12 to create the HUMUS for you.
14:42:15 So that is a problem.
14:42:16 You have to have rain barrels.
14:42:19 You have to be able to go to the river.
14:42:21 You have to have well that is aren't contaminated.
14:42:24 And that's an important consideration.

14:42:26 We can't just, you know, run a sprinkler.
14:42:30 So we worked with the city extension group.
14:42:33 We did the rain barrels with the children.
14:42:36 We established warm beds.
14:42:38 We got our first in and out.
14:42:43 One of the things we found schools, while it sounds
14:42:45 like a wonderful place, you are like way down at the
14:42:50 end of priorities, and it's hard for volunteers to go
14:42:53 work on someone else's garden.
14:42:56 In then viewing year and a half, we developed a
14:42:58 program called prime time sister circle, which is a
14:43:02 different way of going at this, and we now have 75
14:43:06 women over the age of 40, African-American women,
14:43:11 learning about health and wellness and nutrition
14:43:14 fitness and whatever, and these are the women that are
14:43:16 the matriarchs and these are also the women who grew
14:43:20 up with community gardens.
14:43:21 And so instead of come at this through the school
14:43:26 system, where the teachers have their hands full and
14:43:29 the kids can't make commitments, and it's hard enough
14:43:32 just to get a PTA to do anything, much less maintain a
14:43:35 garden, we are now looking at it going through the

14:43:39 influence of matriarchs.
14:43:41 But what we have found is that a community garden
14:43:43 requires that somebody puts out some resources and
14:43:47 funding.
14:43:47 And I think Rick alluded to that.
14:43:49 I cannot underscore it enough.
14:43:51 Beginning a garden requires money.
14:43:54 The fences cost money.
14:43:55 >> How much?
14:43:56 >> Well, we figured out, I think our budget was just a
14:43:59 small one came in at about $15,000.
14:44:02 That's if the land were given.
14:44:04 So truly if you have one that was really maintained
14:44:07 year round and had some security and whatnot, I think
14:44:10 you really have to think in terms of $25,000 for a
14:44:14 plot that has had, you know, soil amendments, and has
14:44:19 the tools.
14:44:20 You need a shed, and you need all these things put
14:44:23 together.
14:44:27 Snoop how big is that?
14:44:29 >>> I'm not good at measuring.
14:44:31 We had one community center up the road that was a

14:44:34 plot that was maybe 100 by 150 feet?
14:44:39 Is that -- does that sound reasonable?
14:44:41 Anyway, what we found was that you needed to do that.
14:44:44 Now, would people work on it?
14:44:45 You betcha.
14:44:46 Even the people in the government housing, subsidized
14:44:50 housing.
14:44:51 And we found that they were trying to grow broccoli in
14:44:54 little cans and things, and they tended to be older
14:44:57 people, or at least more mature people, over 40, who
14:45:01 remembered it from their youth.
14:45:07 And there are with -- they were thrilled about the
14:45:10 idea S.that my five minutes?
14:45:12 I have some people --
14:45:15 >>> That's a perfect mentoring opportunity because you
14:45:16 have got that kind of grandparent generation who grew
14:45:20 up with that experience, teaching, you know, the kids,
14:45:24 the teenagers.
14:45:27 >>> Absolutely.
14:45:28 That's exactly what we wanted.
14:45:30 We have now done investigation on it and we have
14:45:32 identified two or three resources where we can get

14:45:37 matching grants, foundations that offer money if you
14:45:39 have -- they require that the community or the city
14:45:44 puts up part of the money, so it's a matching thing.
14:45:47 And the reason they do it is again what Rick alluded
14:45:50 to.
14:45:50 If there's skin in the game from the people that are
14:45:54 there, you are doomed for failure.
14:45:56 You are just going to go away when one person leaves
14:45:59 or two people leave.
14:46:00 So it does meet that commitment.
14:46:03 And we are real happy. If you are interested in doing
14:46:06 it, we have got people who really want to gone do this
14:46:08 project.
14:46:13 >>> Do you have any circles in East Tampa?
14:46:16 >> We have several people from East Tampa.
14:46:18 But right now they are meeting more in the urban core
14:46:22 at the children's board, and at Union Station --
14:46:29 >> Because you think in terms of funding as part of
14:46:32 the challenge.
14:46:33 East Tampa because it's a CRA area as a blighted area
14:46:35 you can spend money on things like this which will
14:46:37 erase blight and it would be a win-win-win in terms of

14:46:41 jobs, we have some vacant land there, you have some
14:46:43 people there.
14:46:45 That's what I'm thinking might be --
14:46:48 >>> I'm glad you mentioned that because in March will
14:46:50 be sister circle in East Tampa and one will be in a
14:46:55 church and one will be in a community center.
14:46:59 >>MARY MULHERN: This is one of the big reasons I
14:47:01 wanted to have this meeting, because there are all
14:47:03 kinds of different people, is the school district
14:47:07 people working on this stuff, there's people in the
14:47:09 city, in our East Tampa CRA, there's the advisory
14:47:12 board to that CRA, and this is just looking at like
14:47:16 East Tampa.
14:47:17 So if we can just get these connected with each other,
14:47:22 I think, you know, we can help each other.
14:47:26 And it's really important.
14:47:29 It's interesting because you are working with your
14:47:32 "not for profit" and then the on the thing I was
14:47:36 thinking, and I don't know East Tampa, but I know
14:47:38 South Tampa, there's probably 5, 10, 20 garden clubs.
14:47:44 And it might be a good thing for all you organic
14:47:47 gardeners to start to infiltrate those if you haven't

14:47:52 already.
14:47:54 There are mostly older women who are either retired,
14:47:56 or not working, who have a beautiful flower garden
14:48:00 usually.
14:48:00 >> The most wonderful -- I have got a picture
14:48:05 somewhere, when the white SARIS came down with the
14:48:11 African-American community and were digging up the
14:48:13 garden.
14:48:13 It made just the most diverse pictures because they
14:48:18 are all all vegetarians and are concerned that we not
14:48:22 provide good nutrition investigation tarian food.
14:48:26 It was a very beautiful meeting of cross-culture that
14:48:28 is we saw.
14:48:29 And one other thing I want to say, the other side is
14:48:32 the exercise part.
14:48:33 And I just want to remind you all that we are doing
14:48:36 all these over Tampa.
14:48:40 Halloween, we are working to Oak Lawn cemetery.
14:48:43 We have now hundreds and hundreds of Tampa workers,
14:48:47 every other Friday, doing two-mile walks, and I'm
14:48:50 going to leave each of you a little fan, but I want to
14:48:57 encourage all of you to join us.

14:49:00 That's starting with the downtown fresh market.
14:49:05 Tiff ANSI here.
14:49:06 They are starting a downtown fresh market.
14:49:08 They are hoping tomorrow but it looks like it's going
14:49:10 to rain so maybe the 31st.
14:49:12 And vegetables, fresh vegetables will be available
14:49:16 downtown.
14:49:16 And we are also walking two miles every other week.
14:49:20 So I'll send you all the information on that.
14:49:23 Thank you for the chance to do this.
14:49:28 My time has expired.
14:49:29 >>> Christina, my aide, is passing around a contact.
14:49:35 If you are willing to share it and want to share your
14:49:37 contact information, put your name, phone number,
14:49:41 and/or e-mail on there.
14:49:44 >>> Andrea Hildebrand, I live in St. Petersburg,
14:49:47 87514th Avenue south.
14:49:49 And I am the Executive Director of a new nonprofit
14:49:52 organization called green Florida, which has formed a
14:49:55 community garden in St. Petersburg which is where I
14:50:00 live.
14:50:01 And I want to really echo what I have heard in the

14:50:06 testimony today, and one of the main things that's
14:50:09 highlighted how much of how much passion people have
14:50:12 for the community gardens and they get established and
14:50:14 they work well for their own gardens, certainly in
14:50:17 community gardens.
14:50:17 As we got ready to get started with our gardens, we
14:50:20 looked at examples all over the country, and we are in
14:50:26 love with all of them because people were so in love
14:50:29 with each of -- there's a lot of ways to do this, a
14:50:32 lot of models around the country, also a lot of needs
14:50:36 that are being met by both community gardens that are
14:50:39 very simply community gardens, but also food related,
14:50:43 agricultural promoting non-profit endeavors, which are
14:50:47 in a lot of cases operating community gardens, but
14:50:50 also bringing high school students and doing grooming
14:50:54 in commercial fields and providing food to homeless
14:50:56 shelters, battered women's shelters in, Burlington,
14:51:01 Vermont which is where I grew up, it has so exceeded
14:51:05 their expectations and now setting up partnerships
14:51:07 with the public schools to provide vegetables and
14:51:12 fruit.
14:51:12 >> What are you calling it, gleaning?

14:51:15 >>> Gleaning.
14:51:17 As I understand it, in most farms, only about 50 or
14:51:20 60% of what's grown actually is eating, because that
14:51:25 40 or 50% is the wrong size or the wrong color,
14:51:29 perfectly good food but it not the tomato as drawn in
14:51:31 the picture and as market demands, or the apple.
14:51:36 But it perfectly good food.
14:51:37 It gets left on the vine for someone who is strictly
14:51:40 trying to get the 4-inch tomato to market.
14:51:43 So there's an awful lot of food left on the field.
14:51:46 And this is an opportunity that they have grasped
14:51:50 ahold of, this one organization.
14:51:52 I know there's a number that do that.
14:51:53 And so I would encourage the city to look at some of
14:51:58 the different models that exist around the country.
14:52:01 In New York City, there is something that the city
14:52:02 actually runs that provides the staffing support for
14:52:06 hundreds of gardens that they have around their city.
14:52:08 So those are folks who actually -- you work with the
14:52:14 gardeners.
14:52:15 Even though the gardens as I understand it are owned
14:52:17 through a trust with the rep land there.

14:52:21 One of the key problems that we encounter as we talk
14:52:26 to lots of organizers of gardens is they said it
14:52:30 really important to address issues of ownership of the
14:52:33 land as early as possible, but many, many gardens, the
14:52:37 majority, in fact, start on land that is borrowed
14:52:42 either from the city, or a public entity, or a private
14:52:45 owner who says, you know, I would love to have you do
14:52:48 this for now, but gardens almost inevitably raise
14:52:54 property values on the property they are on and
14:52:56 actually the property around them.
14:52:57 And I have a study with me, absolutely fascinating,
14:53:01 about New York City, and real estate and is a whole
14:53:05 other animal there, but the properties they use there,
14:53:08 within a thousand feet of each community garden, has
14:53:11 increased to a level that they are adding a million
14:53:13 dollars in tax revenue to the city each year, per
14:53:16 garden.
14:53:18 So there's really measurable, really remarkable gains
14:53:22 that one can find economically and certainly in the
14:53:26 healthy local food, the education that's possible.
14:53:30 >> Andrea, what model, the little individual plots, or
14:53:36 what?

14:53:36 >>> We are doing individual plots.
14:53:38 And we are a nonprofit organization.
14:53:40 And we are working to buy our land.
14:53:42 We are on a lease right now.
14:53:43 And we have a campaign, at the moment, we have a
14:53:47 purchase option contract that would let us purchase
14:53:49 this lot that we are on for $40,000.
14:53:53 110 by 105.
14:53:55 But then there's a neighborhood housing service that
14:53:57 is owns an adjacent lot that's very small, in fact
14:54:01 unbuildable, and they have offered to donate that
14:54:03 piece, which is adjacent, you know, adjoining ours, if
14:54:08 we become the owners of the one piece.
14:54:10 >> How many folks are doing that?
14:54:13 >> We have 700 people who signed up as supporters of
14:54:16 the organization.
14:54:17 We have 500 people who receive our e-mail.
14:54:19 And there's over 200 people who come and work at the
14:54:22 garden.
14:54:25 We have 24 open garden sites right now.
14:54:28 And we are working hard to install a drip irrigation
14:54:30 system off a wall.

14:54:31 And we have enormous generosity.
14:54:34 Unbelievable generosity.
14:54:36 There's a company that's actually donated nearly a
14:54:40 thousand dollars thousand dollars in drip irrigation
14:54:42 equipment to let douse that at no cost.
14:54:44 I would echo the comments made earlier about the costs
14:54:47 involved.
14:54:47 I would say we have raised about $10,000 and have at
14:54:53 least $12,000 in-kind contributions of material costs
14:54:57 that we had to purchase.
14:54:58 So that's not even beginning to address the hours.
14:55:02 And so while it's a labor of love, I know that I have
14:55:07 engaged this in a way that won't be possible in an
14:55:10 ongoing way without it being compensated in some way.
14:55:13 I mean, experience there, there's -- may I go on for a
14:55:22 little bit?
14:55:24 There's a remarkable amount.
14:55:25 In order to get it right, I would say, you really need
14:55:27 to be organizing people.
14:55:28 You need to have a small database that let's you
14:55:32 manage people that let's you copy track of who pays
14:55:35 and who is gardening and who wants to work at fund

14:55:38 raising activities.
14:55:39 You need to have outreach, you know, it will really be
14:55:42 so much better if there's a press presence, if there's
14:55:46 documentation, a web site, you need to be
14:55:50 fund-raising, whether it's with one benefactor, a
14:55:54 city, or a foundation, or multiple donors.
14:55:57 Any of those scenarios requires attention.
14:56:00 And then you need to be -- you need a lot of attention
14:56:03 on water, and obviously managing who has plots.
14:56:11 I really encourage the City of Tampa to do this.
14:56:13 I think there's so much to be gained.
14:56:16 And I think that who there's a couple other gardens in
14:56:24 St. Petersburg that are kind of lacking in support
14:56:26 resources to keep them going.
14:56:28 And there is a real struggle to keep the energy going
14:56:31 there, to keep the excitement, and get the environment
14:56:36 used properly.
14:56:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is the city involved in any
14:56:40 meaningful way?
14:56:41 >>> They have donate add couple of loads of mulch.
14:56:45 And they have been supportive.
14:56:46 I mean, I have been talking with them over the whole

14:56:49 last year, and very interested in moving towards
14:56:51 perhaps some code changes that would allow for
14:56:54 community gardens specifically within their planning.
14:57:01 As a nonprofit organization, we have asked for their
14:57:03 understanding as we set this up on a lot in a
14:57:06 residential neighborhood, residential codes right now
14:57:08 don't have any provisions that say, now, if you are
14:57:11 operating under certain qualifications, it's
14:57:15 acceptable to put in a community garden, in addition
14:57:17 to the housing that they have sort of foreseen for
14:57:20 this kind of neighborhood.
14:57:22 So I think there's an interest in doing that.
14:57:23 They have given sort of a temporary use waiver that I
14:57:27 think will let us, or permit that we can use I hope in
14:57:33 a long-term way.
14:57:34 But I'm really interested in them creating a category
14:57:38 that is actually a temporary provision.
14:57:42 >> You know, we kind of accidentally created a land
14:57:45 use category, because there was a piece of land --
14:57:49 remember that?
14:57:51 On a border of the county that was sort of in the
14:57:54 middle of New Tampa, and the city annexed it a couple

14:58:01 years ago.
14:58:01 And when we did our revisions, with the comprehensive
14:58:05 plan, they had to come up with a category, and there
14:58:08 was a land use category and they called it urban
14:58:13 estate.
14:58:13 Remember that?
14:58:14 But we actually have the category.
14:58:17 I don't know if it will work.
14:58:19 But it's the first time that the City of Tampa ever
14:58:21 had an agricultural land use.
14:58:24 I don't know if we changed the zoning, but we did
14:58:26 change to a land use.
14:58:29 >>
14:58:33 >> Well, I know that time is --
14:58:35 >> Thank you so much.
14:58:36 >> This is our initiative to create community gardens
14:58:39 from Pinellas County and beyond.
14:58:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Is that a web site, or
14:58:45 something?
14:58:45 >> Green dash Florida dot ORG.
14:58:52 >> If you sign in, and put your web site and your
14:58:55 e-mail and then anyone who wants to share that, we'll

14:59:00 didn't it.
14:59:00 We'll send an e-mail out to everybody.
14:59:03 Thanks so much.
14:59:05 >>> Lori locker, 5167 CORAVET, the director of
14:59:25 botanical gardens A at USF.
14:59:28 We have some experience with the model that you
14:59:29 mentioned from the University of Florida, and we have
14:59:31 a very small area set aside for our students to grow
14:59:34 vegetables, fruit and vegetables on their own.
14:59:37 And I would like to kind of repeat what many have said
14:59:41 already.
14:59:41 It's been hit or miss.
14:59:43 When it gets to be exam time, and all the graduating
14:59:49 things that are on various students' plates, the
14:59:53 vegetable guard sen sometimes the very last thing that
14:59:55 they want to take care of.
14:59:57 But we do have right now 15 plots for students.
15:00:02 And they are active.
15:00:04 We have a another 12 students or so who are wanting to
15:00:09 jump on board.
15:00:10 And really we are looking for a safe site.
15:00:15 We provide all the water, seeds, tools, supplies, and

15:00:21 what expertise we can to our students.
15:00:22 But this was originally developed when the Magnolia
15:00:27 apartments and student dorms were built on our end of
15:00:29 the campus, and they are family dorms, and we wanted
15:00:34 to make sure the families had a place to come, and
15:00:36 since we have so many new students from other
15:00:39 countries that might be looking for conveniently
15:00:41 tables and fruits, this is an opportunity for them to
15:00:46 provide their families with food.
15:00:49 And it's really grown from there.
15:00:51 We also -- I am also working with the business people
15:00:55 at Sulphur Springs elementary school.
15:00:57 And there there has been a lot of interest expressed
15:01:00 in building the community garden in that neighborhood
15:01:03 as well.
15:01:04 Again another neighborhood without a grocery store.
15:01:08 And with people in the community who are very
15:01:11 interested in committing to that, that program as
15:01:17 well.
15:01:17 And I'm happy to answer any questions from our end.
15:01:28 >>MARY MULHERN: So you are talking to people in the
15:01:29 city about maybe working, or helping, advising at

15:01:34 least, or working with -- I guess Sulphur Springs.
15:01:41 But you are doing that with the elementary school.
15:01:43 >>> With the elementary school there, yes.
15:01:45 >>MARY MULHERN: Are you thinking of doing it sort of
15:01:48 getting grandparents or parents involved?
15:01:51 >>> Yes.
15:01:54 Exactly.
15:01:55 And again for the same reasons mentioned before, they
15:01:58 come and go, time is limited but there are people in
15:01:59 the community who are very interested, and people that
15:02:02 have their own gardens would be very interested in
15:02:06 participating and teaching kids.
15:02:08 I have about 400 students from Sulphur Springs
15:02:11 elementary that would be visiting the garden over the
15:02:13 next two weeks, so they can get out and see the garden
15:02:16 and get inspired and learning a little bit more about
15:02:19 plants.
15:02:24 Again we have a very small community garden but a good
15:02:27 resource for the community as well.
15:02:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
15:02:31 >>> My name is Jim Covaleski. I live up in New Port
15:02:42 Richey. And when you mentioned that it could be a

15:02:45 business, I'm sure the first year I grew for market,
15:02:50 but I don't have -- I have about a third of my income
15:02:55 off of two little urban lots in downtown New Port
15:02:56 Richey doing two farmers' markets.
15:03:01 Multi vegetables from Mulberry, citrus, kumquats, and
15:03:06 as far as community supported agriculture, New Port
15:03:08 Richey has a wonderful program as far as the yard
15:03:11 waste.
15:03:12 They allow all the homeowners to pile up the yard
15:03:15 waste like a certain spot on their yard, every three
15:03:17 to four weeks they come, pick it up, the city does
15:03:20 with their own trucks, take it somewhere, Chip it,
15:03:22 compost it and off it back to the city residents,
15:03:26 delivered, if you want.
15:03:28 Luckily I have my own dump truck.
15:03:30 So I have hundreds of yards of come post on my plot.
15:03:36 But it can be something that I see the suburban lot to
15:03:44 be the small farm of the future because the
15:03:46 infrastructure is close to the city and people can
15:03:47 actually make a living off their land.
15:03:49 I mean, at lowest a partial living off their land.
15:03:56 >>MARY MULHERN: Did you say just the last few years?

15:03:59 >> I have always -- I started in grounds maintenance
15:04:04 and then moved into landscape gardening, garden ponds
15:04:08 and that kind of thing but something was missing there
15:04:10 and the food growing really brought a connection with
15:04:13 people, and with a whole feeling of being part of the
15:04:17 world.
15:04:18 And so when I started doing that probably five years
15:04:20 ago, I ran a book and it talked about integrating a
15:04:26 whole ecosystem, not just growing vegetables, but
15:04:30 actually having an ecosystem with native plants mixed
15:04:34 in, so it's terrific for everybody.
15:04:38 That's what I see as a missing piece to these large
15:04:42 community gardens, without the trees and that kind of
15:04:44 thing, because it's such an open area.
15:04:47 It's not really a natural thing.
15:04:49 And it can be productive, with very little input
15:04:53 coming from the outside.
15:04:54 I don't have any grass in my yard.
15:04:57 And all my vegetable -- it not like a huge Brock of
15:05:05 lettuce or broccoli.
15:05:08 And I'm as organic as can be.
15:05:15 My wife had time out and said the mosquito trucks came

15:05:20 through the neighborhood.
15:05:21 Are we going to go pick?
15:05:26 That's an issue.
15:05:29 Mel a money and just an issue --
15:05:34 Just what's going on in the neighborhood, now.
15:05:35 >> So you sell your produce at farmers market?
15:05:38 >> Yes.
15:05:39 And then New Port Richey opened one last year.
15:05:42 And I just got back, and what Rick said about the
15:05:49 timing, that's a big issue as far as having stuff
15:05:52 available, knowing when to plant, knowing when to get
15:05:55 it out of there.
15:05:55 If you are talking, you need to have that education
15:05:58 component, so that somebody is there showing people
15:06:01 and telling people when and how to do things.
15:06:03 >> Did you move here from up there?
15:06:06 >> I came from Minnesota, came down here and got into
15:06:09 grounds maintenance and now going back and forth
15:06:11 between Maine and here and doing a similar thing,
15:06:14 gardening up there in the summer and then coming back
15:06:16 here.
15:06:19 >>MARY MULHERN: That's great.

15:06:20 Thank you.
15:06:23 >>> My name is Karen --
15:06:32 I'm with a nonprofit organization, brand new start up
15:06:36 called plan C initiative and actually working -- our
15:06:39 whole mission and concept is a blend of farmicultural
15:06:45 and recognition ecology.
15:06:46 Our goal is to really use the community gardens
15:06:49 concept, and spread it out throughout neighborhoods
15:06:52 and throughout cities, so that people are really
15:06:54 creating these kinds of landscaping in their own yard.
15:06:57 So our goal is to help facilitate and empower people
15:07:01 to do that.
15:07:02 My background is in ecology.
15:07:03 And I found even putting in a native yard to be
15:07:07 daunting endeavor.
15:07:10 So I realize there are a lot of gaps, a lot of needs
15:07:14 for people to come to the point where they are able to
15:07:16 put ecological landscape that supports people and
15:07:21 wildlife.
15:07:23 That's what we are trying to do, working with local
15:07:25 governments and other nonprofits.
15:07:27 >>MARY MULHERN: What local governments do you work

15:07:28 with?
15:07:29 >>> We are starting with the city of Tarpon Springs.
15:07:32 They approached us with the idea, just like you have,
15:07:36 with trying to promote community gardens.
15:07:41 We kind of went back and forth about models and what
15:07:44 would be appropriate and what we have tentatively
15:07:46 settled on is we would use a city plot to develop a
15:07:51 demonstration area for ecological gardening that had
15:07:54 both native plant components, and food components, not
15:07:58 just vegetables, but fruit trees and lots of different
15:08:01 things that would support people.
15:08:03 In addition to increasing biodiversity.
15:08:06 So far, so good, you know.
15:08:08 It's still in the very beginning stages.
15:08:12 Just an enormous amount of interest, not only with the
15:08:14 government sector, public and private, business
15:08:17 people.
15:08:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What type of financial investment
15:08:24 would the city have, having at this point?
15:08:28 >>> Well, we kind of came up with a budget to do the
15:08:33 type of gardening that we are talking about.
15:08:40 About 100 by 150.

15:08:42 So that includes not just the installation but our
15:08:48 time involved with all levels of community outreach
15:08:50 and getting buy-in from the community and ensuring
15:08:54 that we have the kind of support required to promote
15:08:56 it long-term.
15:08:57 And eventually it would turn over to the city as sort
15:09:02 of a park with input from the residents.
15:09:10 >>
15:09:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Does the city decide where it's
15:09:16 located? And in choosing a site for a garden like
15:09:20 this.
15:09:20 >>> We haven't exactly determined exact location.
15:09:24 We have narrowed it down to three different plots that
15:09:27 we think to be appropriate and we are going to target
15:09:29 the community leaders in the vicinity, find out who is
15:09:34 most receptive to the idea, and also adjacent
15:09:36 residents, and really how people are feeling about it.
15:09:42 We don't want to plop it down somewhere that it's not
15:09:45 going to be received well.
15:09:47 So we are encouraged by the amount of interest that we
15:09:51 have received.
15:09:51 I think it will work out.

15:09:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Is there anybody here who is working
15:09:57 with restaurants, or has a restaurant?
15:10:00 Oh, that's right, Rick.
15:10:06 Just Bern's.
15:10:10 I know there are other restaurants that are growing
15:10:13 their own.
15:10:15 >>> (off microphone)
15:10:29 >> The whole food movement, grocery movement.
15:10:36 Have been else is doing it.
15:10:40 >> These people are out doing, we need to figure out
15:10:44 how to support them.
15:10:46 >>> Thanks for holding this workshop.
15:10:48 My name is Paul Flora, I live at 5908 north Glenn
15:10:52 Avenue, in Tampa. In Seminole Heights neighborhood.
15:10:56 And I'm mostly just an individual gardener.
15:11:00 I'm a city planner as well.
15:11:03 And I have gardened in Virginia, gardened in
15:11:07 Pennsylvania, and I don't have the expertise to
15:11:09 know -- I'm still working that out.
15:11:13 But someone else in the audience here can tell you, we
15:11:17 have the nicest lawn in the block when I moved in.
15:11:19 And now it's kind of mostly a mini orchard with some

15:11:24 weeds that I'm working out and will eventually work a
15:11:26 combination of landscaping, native landscaping, as
15:11:29 well as I found collard greens work best with limited
15:11:36 work with the soil so I'm finding things I can eat
15:11:38 with minimal amount of effort.
15:11:40 One thing I want to contribute was to consider at
15:11:43 least, and make Rick and some others can say it's a
15:11:46 bad idea, but to consider a third option to their
15:11:48 community gardens versus the gardens that you buy
15:11:58 into, and that would be a distributed garden where you
15:12:00 hire a couple of urban gardeners to go through the
15:12:03 neighborhood on really many things.
15:12:05 I think what might work best in orchards or fruit
15:12:11 trees.
15:12:12 You see so many properties in Florida.
15:12:14 I kind of cringe when I go by and you see a tree
15:12:17 dropping all its fruit, nobody picking it up, nobody
15:12:20 using it, just going to waste.
15:12:22 One of the things I planted in my front yard was about
15:12:26 half a does citrus trees, some bananas.
15:12:31 I planted a hedge of blueberries.
15:12:35 They have done very well.

15:12:36 And what I imagined -- and I know this has been done
15:12:39 in a few areas.
15:12:41 I don't know with what success, although some places
15:12:43 where the gardeners like village homes in Davis,
15:12:49 California, that's a compact located farm.
15:12:52 I don't know how successful it is when you see the
15:12:56 inefficiency of having to go down the street and
15:12:59 harvest different individual trees.
15:13:00 But within a fairly compact neighborhood, if you got
15:13:05 50 households who said yes, you know, you can plant
15:13:08 three or four trees in my front yard and then you had
15:13:11 a couple of urban gardeners who were hired to come in
15:13:13 and take care of them, maintain and harvest them, the
15:13:16 homeowner might get -- you might have a cash prop to
15:13:20 help pay for the urban gardeners.
15:13:21 I think it might be something to consider.
15:13:24 >> You know, what's so interesting, so many of us pay
15:13:29 yardmen, people, gardeners to mow our lawns and blow
15:13:35 our leaves around.
15:13:36 We could be paying people to grow food for us.
15:13:41 It seems like such a smart thing to do.
15:13:44 But we need people like you to think of it.

15:13:50 And this is an etiquette question.
15:13:54 But there are a lot of citrus trees in my
15:13:56 neighborhood, and they do.
15:13:57 The fruit falls off and I wonder if it's okay to just
15:14:00 pick fruit.
15:14:05 I know it's just rotting on the vine.
15:14:14 >>> I don't know -- I assume it's not legal to pick it
15:14:16 up.
15:14:17 >>MARY MULHERN: I guess I shouldn't be asking the
15:14:19 question.
15:14:21 I'll get a lot of e-mails on that.
15:14:26 >> (off microphone)
15:14:50 >>MARY MULHERN: Come up so we can hear you.
15:14:53 >>> We get a lot of ours from our trees.
15:15:00 I know a gentleman in lake Helen, and he has this
15:15:03 business where he gets paid to go to people's yards
15:15:07 and install and maintain gardens.
15:15:09 And he had like 30 customers.
15:15:13 But now he's opened a community farm in lake Helen so
15:15:16 he's gotten out of that business.
15:15:18 But I think it's a clever idea.
15:15:20 And there's some friends of mine that live in South

15:15:24 Tampa, near where the Crosstown goes over Howard.
15:15:30 And they have a work group, and each week they two to
15:15:34 different people's yards, and they do landscaping as
15:15:39 well as vegetables.
15:15:42 >> That's my street.
15:15:48 >>> And a gardener that spoke earlier, now, if there
15:15:50 was just some sort of initiative that encouraged that,
15:15:55 and a support system to, you know, provide a forum and
15:15:59 encouragement, and where people in neighborhoods could
15:16:02 plan together.
15:16:04 You plant the squash and I'll plant this, or you plant
15:16:07 this set of crops and we'll plant this, and then next
15:16:09 season -- and that way they are rotating things
15:16:13 through.
15:16:13 I think there's a lot to be said that can happen with
15:16:16 that kind of initiative.
15:16:18 >>MARY MULHERN: You know, that's my neighborhood.
15:16:19 And the neighborhood association has, you know, a
15:16:24 ListServ, and everybody can go on there.
15:16:26 So really, if you just start, somebody started that in
15:16:30 their neighborhood, and find out hop is doing the
15:16:33 gardening, like these two women here.

15:16:35 >> I think with a little encouragement it can really
15:16:41 take off and kind of transform ourselves from a
15:16:43 community of lawns and grass, and the environmental
15:16:49 impact that that brings with it, to really
15:16:52 contributing something to our community.
15:16:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Seminole Heights, they have that great
15:16:59 web page.
15:17:00 Do they talk about urban gardening there?
15:17:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Come on up. We can't hear you.
15:17:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Anybody else?
15:17:12 >> (Off microphone) 506 South Reno Place. Number
15:17:27 158.
15:17:27 I have used the Seminole Heights web site.
15:17:30 They do have a small program going on right now with
15:17:34 Seminole Heights play group.
15:17:36 They are trying to start a community garden, for the
15:17:40 children, a play group there.
15:17:42 That is a really great resource.
15:17:44 I'm a full-time student at USF, not part of a
15:17:47 nonprofit or anything, but in the very beginning
15:17:49 stages of starting an urban community garden in the
15:17:52 Ybor Heights area, and have used the Seminole Heights

15:17:56 web site there, and have several people that are also
15:17:59 very involved.
15:18:01 And as soon as we get it going, now, they are ready to
15:18:04 come out.
15:18:04 So several members --
15:18:08 >> You don't have to tell me where it is, but where
15:18:11 are you going to develop the garden?
15:18:12 Or are you just doing your own yard?
15:18:16 >>> We have an agreement with what's called the new
15:18:19 place.
15:18:20 It's over off of Columbus, 17th street, 17th
15:18:24 Avenue.
15:18:26 And right now they are letting us lease the backyard
15:18:29 basically of their church.
15:18:34 >>MARY MULHERN: I think that's a great resource, the
15:18:37 churches.
15:18:37 They are feeding people.
15:18:39 Anyway.
15:18:41 >> We were saying earlier they have a huge lot in
15:18:44 their back, that every week someone is out there
15:18:46 taking care of it, and cutting and maintaining it and
15:18:49 here we are going to come in and take care of it for

15:18:51 them.
15:18:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why doesn't everybody who hasn't
15:19:00 spoken that would like to speak come up front and we
15:19:02 can be more efficient.
15:19:03 >> I'm from USF, and I'm working with Ed Johnson and
15:19:08 East Tampa redevelopment, East Tampa brownfield
15:19:12 project.
15:19:13 One of the things we are looking at is redeveloping
15:19:15 some of the brown fields into some sort of different
15:19:18 land use that is sustainable, and one of the ideas
15:19:20 that keeps rising up is the idea of community
15:19:23 supported agriculture, or community garden, and
15:19:26 there's a lot of interest in that.
15:19:27 We are just ready to kick off a project.
15:19:30 We are going to inventory the types of gardens that
15:19:32 already exist in East Tampa to try to find out what
15:19:35 are the best crops people are interested in growing.
15:19:40 >> What's your time frame?
15:19:43 >> We hope to have that done probably in the next year
15:19:45 to go and record gardens, go visit dozens and dozens
15:19:51 of gardens, photograph them.
15:19:54 >> If you have anything that can be implementable come

15:19:56 to us and let's start working on making it happen.
15:20:00 >>MARY MULHERN: That's fantastic because as do you
15:20:03 that inventory, you can create that network, where
15:20:07 people can get together.
15:20:08 Fantastic.
15:20:09 That reminds me, too, and I know we talked about this,
15:20:12 but that's another really good source of funding, is
15:20:17 the brownfield, and that's federal money, right?
15:20:25 >>> It's federal -- there's federal EPA dollars.
15:20:31 But the other piece that I think that there's a lot of
15:20:35 opportunity in job training for the green marketplace,
15:20:37 and green jobs in the future.
15:20:39 I think that's the idea of looking at this exclusively
15:20:43 for food production.
15:20:44 And it's good.
15:20:46 We also have to look at how we are going to employ
15:20:49 people that live in the city in the future.
15:20:51 And I think that growing food is a real strong
15:20:54 opportunity for reinvesting in jobs, the green jobs in
15:20:56 the future.
15:21:03 >>> Good afternoon.
15:21:04 My name is Pete Nelson.

15:21:06 I reside at 2806 west packson Avenue, and my
15:21:12 profession, I'm president of mothers or begannics.
15:21:15 We have a 55-acre composting facility in Seffner.
15:21:21 Let me just state first off this is not going to be a
15:21:23 free advertisement or a product push, but we realize
15:21:29 that a lot of the, I guess, success of the really
15:21:36 boils down in some parts the quality of the soil.
15:21:39 And, you know, what what we do is we take yard waste
15:21:43 and we come post it, then reapply to the environment
15:21:46 for ground type programs.
15:21:50 Some of the things that we are doing and working to do
15:21:54 I think tie into the whole community garden, and urban
15:21:58 farming type story.
15:22:01 One example is something that we have done is we have
15:22:05 a partnership with a large organic strawberry farm,
15:22:10 and so what we have done is we provided about 11 to
15:22:14 12,000 cubic yards of come post to then grow organic
15:22:18 strawberries.
15:22:19 When you get into the growing organic food, not so
15:22:22 much -- well, for consumption, but for sale, you know,
15:22:27 the certification as far as growing in the ground is a
15:22:31 challenging process.

15:22:33 Rightly so.
15:22:35 What we had is a partnership with the company where we
15:22:38 actually, for this partnership that we have, we used a
15:22:42 12-inch biodegradable filter sock so they can grow
15:22:46 this product above ground, and so very large and
15:22:54 successful project right now.
15:22:55 The only reason I bring this that up is because I'm
15:22:59 not an expert in urban farming or community gardens
15:23:02 but I'm just trying to use some creativity in seeing
15:23:05 some things that might be able to happen.
15:23:08 The same concept of using this biodegradable stock
15:23:11 with a come post inside it is really would free up
15:23:16 some of the locations that you can use, because you
15:23:19 are not as dependent on the type of soil.
15:23:21 I mean, you can put this on pavement, you know.
15:23:28 >> Kind of like a come post sausage.
15:23:31 I have seen it before.
15:23:32 >>> Exactly.
15:23:35 >>MARY MULHERN: Strawberries grow right on the --
15:23:37 >> Put a little hole in the come post.
15:23:40 >>> We have 15 acres of 12-inch, picture of 12-inch
15:23:45 biodegradable stocks that we come post in and kind of

15:23:50 grow the strawberries.
15:23:51 You know, you are not dependent as much on the soil
15:23:54 there.
15:23:55 You choose the soil, because the soil that grows
15:23:58 vegetables versus strawberries versus blueberries
15:24:01 versus some other, you can create that custom blend.
15:24:06 Again from --
15:24:08 >> You don't have to worry about --
15:24:10 >> Yeah, and you get a good quality come post which
15:24:13 encourages root growth from a maintenance perspective.
15:24:17 It's an interesting concept.
15:24:18 Again, you know, you are talking, I'm kind of
15:24:21 envisions in the middle of the city that, you know,
15:24:24 what that land would look like, maybe some pavement
15:24:27 around it, maybe has some issues and you have to till
15:24:31 it all up.
15:24:32 One alternative is to use like an above-ground filter
15:24:36 sock, which would be much less dependent on, you know,
15:24:40 the quality of that soil, that natural soil, or sand
15:24:45 in most cases.
15:24:46 Just something that we have done: We are certainly a
15:24:53 for-profit entity.

15:24:55 It's a business.
15:24:55 But fundamentally, education and promoting this is of
15:25:02 utmost Port-au-Prince to us.
15:25:04 I want to say as this progresses, we would certainly
15:25:07 like to be involved, and we would certainly like to
15:25:10 make our resources available to help promote this in
15:25:16 whatever way we can.
15:25:17 >> What other crops have you thought of doing?
15:25:22 >> Strawberries, in the initial stages of blueberries.
15:25:27 Yeah, my counterpart, she's working on other crops.
15:25:34 >> Is this a common thing?
15:25:37 Did you come up with this?
15:25:38 >> It's a company called spill treks out of Ohio.
15:25:46 I guess we have distribution rights in most of the
15:25:48 State of Florida for this product.
15:25:49 It's one where I guess the best way to say it is there
15:25:55 have been tons of tests and trials, and improving crop
15:25:59 yield and using the right-of-way soil, and there's,
15:26:03 now, mountains of data on it.
15:26:04 But as far as large-scale production, as this one
15:26:11 project that I mentioned, it's been done, now, very
15:26:14 few places in the country.

15:26:15 So it's a very new concept.
15:26:19 >>MARY MULHERN: It's a great concept for urban
15:26:22 gardening.
15:26:22 I know people that are buying those earth boxes but
15:26:26 they spend all this money and have all this stuff
15:26:28 around it.
15:26:29 It seems so much simpler --
15:26:32 >>> Well, the person that we worked with used to use
15:26:35 earth boxes and now so you are taking yard waste,
15:26:38 creating come post, putting in this stock, it's
15:26:43 biodegradable, at the end of the season it degrades,
15:26:45 and then you recome post the material and do it again.
15:26:50 It's pretty neat.
15:26:54 >>> My name is carmel, also with mothers or begannics.
15:27:02 Just to add to what Pete said, Rick mentioned mothers
15:27:06 organic at the beginning of his talk today, and we are
15:27:09 going with a test with sweet water, we are going to be
15:27:12 doing the mesh material with come post and the
15:27:14 different products.
15:27:15 And we literally call that farms by the foot, where
15:27:19 you actually have a water barrel with a drip
15:27:23 irrigation hook so there's no mechanics whatsoever, so

15:27:27 you can actually have a 20-foot material that Pete was
15:27:32 mentioning with a water as opposed to irrigation
15:27:37 system.
15:27:41 And you have your irrigation system.
15:27:42 I kind of wear two hats with mothers organic.
15:27:45 And our composting facility, we take waste and make
15:27:51 HUMUS.
15:27:52 We also started with Dunkin' Donuts in St. Pete where
15:27:56 we are taking all their coffee grounds, paper
15:27:59 products, and donuts, and we are composting them, or
15:28:03 we are converting it into worm --
15:28:10 >> You lost us for a moment with Dunkin' Donuts.
15:28:13 >>
15:28:17 What do you convert it to?
15:28:19 >>> We are converting their waste product like we do
15:28:21 on our farm, converting a waste product at the
15:28:24 restaurant into worm tea which is fertilizer.
15:28:29 >> I hadn't heard those.
15:28:30 >>> You would be absolutely amazed at how valuable
15:28:38 that product is.
15:28:39 >> Where can a customer buy that?
15:28:41 >> The worm -- I'll leave sow information.

15:28:47 Just on a personal note, I am doing some testing with
15:28:49 various products in my yard, Anna Maria where I live
15:28:52 in, wags.
15:28:53 For example, blueberries and bamboo with different
15:28:57 soil mixes that he would made at the farm.
15:28:59 And then that also could be replicated like the
15:29:02 sausage, as you mentioned, where you could actually
15:29:05 plant on top of the ground, in a bad area where you
15:29:09 have no soil, you have nothing, you use a bag or the
15:29:12 mesh material, and that expands your area of what you
15:29:15 can do, tremendously.
15:29:17 So thank you.
15:29:22 >>> For the record my name is Janet Doherty, formerly
15:29:29 Kobach, 8214 -- in Riverview, and I'm here to talk a
15:29:35 little about water consumption and the environmental
15:29:38 aspects of utilizing the soil amendments as well for
15:29:42 urban gardening.
15:29:44 It's pretty germane that you are having this
15:29:46 discussion because two weeks ago there was an article
15:29:48 in the "The Tampa Tribune" that featured a gentleman
15:29:51 named Dr. KLUSEN, in urban gardening and holding
15:29:58 classes in Sarasota.

15:29:59 He has a series of eight classes.
15:30:00 He's going to start them again in January.
15:30:02 I plan to attend to find out how that could be
15:30:04 replicated in this area as well.
15:30:06 The other thing he's doing is doing green roofs, which
15:30:10 is what Rick was discussing before, and they are going
15:30:14 to be utilizing -- they already have the government
15:30:16 building picked out, and they are going to make it
15:30:20 fruit and vegetables so you can actually eat the food
15:30:23 that's on the roof in the government building in
15:30:25 Sarasota.
15:30:26 So he's looked at some of these products and very
15:30:29 interested in utilizing not only the come post but the
15:30:32 filter sock as well.
15:30:34 Other thing is an estuary program as well as SWFWMD
15:30:39 and in Tampa Bay sounding there's a big article on
15:30:43 urban gardening.
15:30:44 If you want we have a sheet going around.
15:30:45 I'll be glad to forward via e-mail both articles to
15:30:49 you guys so that you can get them out to the group,
15:30:51 and they can see about urban gardening as well.
15:30:56 An article I'll leave from you from national

15:30:58 geographic at the beginning of this year, and in it,
15:31:01 it talks about how 24 states have legislated against
15:31:04 the land application of yard mulch, yard trash, and
15:31:09 for composting.
15:31:10 Of course, Florida is the number one purveyor of yard
15:31:12 trash as well.
15:31:13 And after I requested the energy bill from the state
15:31:17 that talks about the composting goals that you will
15:31:19 have to reach by 2020.
15:31:21 Of course 75% is the recycling goal but I have it
15:31:25 highlighted and will leave copies for you.
15:31:27 When I send an e-mail around, I will try to get last
15:31:30 month's article, national geographic, half of it on
15:31:34 soil amendment and saying that's really what it's
15:31:36 about.
15:31:36 I'm sure you are familiar with the fertilizer rule
15:31:38 that just came before, Tampa Bay Regional Planning
15:31:40 Council.
15:31:41 Sarasota adopted a fertilizer role.
15:31:43 That's because nutrients are running off.
15:31:46 But the reality is, when you come post, it's all
15:31:48 organic and it's readily uptakes into the root system.

15:31:53 You use less water, and you have more productivity,
15:31:56 and you can use these organic materials.
15:31:58 It makes sense to continually recycle these things.
15:32:02 Another thing I would like to say, too, you have a lot
15:32:03 of opportunities, I think, in your ecosystem.
15:32:07 I worked in the port of Tampa for seven years, worked
15:32:09 with elementary.
15:32:12 I know it's hard working with if cat as stuff to
15:32:16 engage those children but you have a wonderful park
15:32:18 service with a huge area where they can go after
15:32:21 school.
15:32:21 What a perfect place to engage those kids to grow a
15:32:24 garden right there.
15:32:25 And the other thing, in your East Tampa, which I
15:32:27 think, Linda, you were saying that you have a lot ever
15:32:29 opportunity for grant money, you have some brown field
15:32:32 sites out there.
15:32:33 And when you take this material along with the socks
15:32:37 and you bring it out there, you can put it directly on
15:32:39 the ground.
15:32:40 You are immediately organic to be able to utilize it.
15:32:43 Just like you can grow it on a pavement.

15:32:46 And I think there's a lot of opportunity to take some
15:32:48 blighted property and make something good out of them.
15:32:51 So I'll get my articles to you.
15:32:53 And I think it makes sense.
15:32:54 I think you can save water.
15:32:56 When you are doing local farming, people are driving
15:32:58 around, less emissions.
15:33:04 And maybe we can plant little plants in it and give it
15:33:07 to some of these kids.
15:33:08 They take it home, or take it by the foot, and they
15:33:12 grow a tomato or two at home with their parents.
15:33:14 Then they become connected to the food.
15:33:16 So years from now, more and more people are growing
15:33:19 food locally.
15:33:21 When I go to Europe I'm always amazed because
15:33:23 everywhere, Spain, France, Italy, everyone has a
15:33:25 garden.
15:33:26 And everyone eats their own food.
15:33:28 So thank you so much.
15:33:37 >>> City of Tampa.
15:33:41 I like to keep it short and sweet.
15:33:43 I ran across this little stat.

15:33:47 The main organic farmers and gardeners association
15:33:51 estimates that if every family in Maine spends some
15:33:55 dollars in local food it will put $104 into the local
15:33:59 economy so I did a little multiplication for Tampa.
15:34:02 City of Tampa could put in 3,820,000, the bay area $27
15:34:08 million.
15:34:10 Ten bucks for each family.
15:34:11 And Florida is 181 million.
15:34:14 So that was kind of cool.
15:34:16 It's just really the economy is so important, and on
15:34:23 top of that you have food security which the bottom
15:34:25 line is if we had a crisis we could not feed ourselves
15:34:28 right now.
15:34:28 We have a lot overseas.
15:34:30 There's so many good reasons to Don this.
15:34:33 And I really appreciate everybody who came today.
15:34:35 That means a lot.
15:34:38 >> Virginia Graboski, 504 Apache lane, Seffner.
15:34:49 I sat on the business committee for the Tampa Green
15:34:50 Expo last year, and I think this would be a great
15:34:53 way to present this to the community at larrge -- it's
15:35:02 only a few months away. Maybe that's a good time to

15:35:03 bring it out.
15:35:17 >> There's a thing happening in November called SDAT,
15:35:18 Sustainable Design Assessment Team, where
15:35:21 neighborhoods are -- everybody in the community will
15:35:24 attend and think of what you want to have happen.
15:35:27 It seems this should be at the top of the list and
15:35:29 would be a great time to organize.
15:35:31 So that's something we should definitely -- that's the
15:35:33 urban charrette is putting it on, open community wide.
15:35:37 Everybody is invited to attend.
15:35:39 A final presentation on a Friday afternoon.
15:35:41 And that's down at the law school.
15:35:45 They are just renting a place.
15:35:46 But it's open to the community.
15:35:47 And the idea is how can neighborhoods improve
15:35:50 sustainability?
15:35:51 Well, this is perfect.
15:35:57 >>> I'm Mona Vasquez, a resident of Channelside.
15:36:02 And I would just like to share with you, young
15:36:06 professional architects have over the past weekend,
15:36:09 they were presented a problem with sustainable
15:36:11 affordable housing, and the group, the team that I

15:36:15 work with came up with an interesting solution where
15:36:19 we provided systems that can have urban gardens, or
15:36:27 garden map, that the community would take care of, in
15:36:29 anticipation of prefabricated home would be get passed
15:36:36 to the system, the opportunity, familiarity, and kind
15:36:40 of union of the community itself, and would be
15:36:47 incorporated.
15:36:48 If you extend that, prefabricated home come with a
15:36:53 green wall that would connect with the cistern, and
15:36:55 the water from the roof would then trickle down the
15:37:00 green wall and into the cistern, but there was this
15:37:04 interesting aspect that you had the sustainable
15:37:07 approach to it and also giving back to the community,
15:37:09 and also the possibility of the resident becoming its
15:37:14 own Gardner and selling the fruit or produce in a
15:37:18 farmers market so you have the income, you know,
15:37:21 attached to the house as well.
15:37:24 >> That's so cool.
15:37:25 Is Cathy still here who is doing that affordable
15:37:28 house?
15:37:31 When she was talking, I was thinking, how do you turn
15:37:36 that affordable housing and package that with

15:37:39 gardening?
15:37:40 >> It was actually presented by a gentleman who -- a
15:37:56 house demolished during a hurricane but wanted to have
15:37:58 an urban in-fill solution as well, you know.
15:38:03 >> Does he live here?
15:38:05 >> No, but I have contact with him.
15:38:07 And there are three gentlemen that presented over the
15:38:12 past weekend, and we felt quite pleased with some of
15:38:14 the solutions that came up.
15:38:20 Beginning with affordable housing, a good image for
15:38:23 the rest of the community to be environmentally
15:38:25 conscious and responsible.
15:38:36 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
15:38:37 Anybody else?
15:38:40 We heard from one city staff.
15:38:42 Carla.
15:38:48 >>> Carla price with the Parks and Recreation
15:38:50 Department.
15:38:52 We currently do not have a community gardens program.
15:38:55 It seems like every five or six years, we'll have a
15:38:58 group of persons who approach us about doing community
15:39:01 gardening.

15:39:03 In 2001 we actually did a report to City Council where
15:39:06 we looked at some of the things we were concerned
15:39:08 about, such as liability and maintenance, and maybe
15:39:12 what some of the issues were with those.
15:39:15 It seems like through the years the program has never
15:39:17 really taken off.
15:39:18 And doing research on community gardening, and
15:39:22 everybody that supported that, really to make it
15:39:25 successful, it has to come from the community.
15:39:28 And I think up to this point we have never had a large
15:39:31 enough contingent and enough community support for
15:39:36 programs to be successful and move forward.
15:39:38 We have researched the what other communities have
15:39:41 done, city of Chicago has a great program.
15:39:43 If you look at their web site, their program is very
15:39:46 structured, and it's very organized.
15:39:49 And they don't do it alone.
15:39:50 It not the parks alone.
15:39:54 They have a lot of partners that help them with their
15:39:57 program.
15:39:57 And they have staff that supports that program.
15:39:59 The city of New York was mentioned.

15:40:00 I think they have the largest community gardening
15:40:02 program, over 600.
15:40:04 But they also have a nonprofit group called green zone
15:40:07 that supports that program.
15:40:09 So I think there's a lot of opportunity out there.
15:40:12 I'm not sure what role the Parks and Recreation
15:40:13 Department would play with the community gardening
15:40:17 program.
15:40:17 Expertise in knowing how to plant in Florida I think
15:40:21 is really key.
15:40:23 We do not have a horticulturalist position in our
15:40:26 department anymore.
15:40:27 We don't have that resource available.
15:40:39 >>MARY MULHERN: When I started talking to people about
15:40:41 this, I thought, how can we get this going without the
15:40:45 city, you know, with the city having to not give
15:40:49 anything, because this thing about Chicago is they
15:40:52 have the staff and they spend the money and they are
15:40:54 willing to do that.
15:40:55 And they have a sustainable -- what is it?
15:41:02 Sustainable building center in the city and
15:41:06 everything.

15:41:07 But I was thinking about Seminole Heights.
15:41:10 And, you know, that's one, that Giddeons, which they
15:41:15 have been trying to -- the community and neighborhood
15:41:19 has been trying to decide what they want to do and it
15:41:21 didn't work out.
15:41:22 But I think of that park as an example, and I don't
15:41:25 know how many parks there are like that in the city.
15:41:27 But we actually do have land, and a lot of these parks
15:41:30 that are gated.
15:41:32 So you have got the land.
15:41:33 You have got the security.
15:41:34 You probably have got water.
15:41:35 Although I didn't realize you couldn't just use our
15:41:40 drinking water necessarily.
15:41:42 But that's something, and especially with these like
15:41:45 portable box things, it might be a really great thing
15:41:49 to do through the parks system, and, you know, certain
15:41:53 parks, just designate neighborhood parks, or a part of
15:41:59 the neighborhood park for agriculture.
15:42:01 >> And the city of Chicago is successful in that they
15:42:06 have garden groups.
15:42:08 They have to go out to the community and reach out to

15:42:10 make sure they support what's going on in the park
15:42:13 next to them.
15:42:13 And I think that's a real important aspect, making
15:42:16 sure that property owners and community would support
15:42:19 something like that.
15:42:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can we get a clarification on this
15:42:25 water issue?
15:42:32 You can start rumors very quickly, you know.
15:42:37 Most of us drink the city water.
15:42:39 We bathe and do everything in it.
15:42:40 Somebody said something about not using the city water
15:42:43 for your gardening.
15:42:45 But for S that just for pure organic gardening?
15:42:53 I don't know.
15:42:54 >>> Water is the issue for the future of our race.
15:43:01 You know, you drink 2,000 times -- the food that you
15:43:07 eat every day uses 500 times the amount of water you
15:43:11 drink every day.
15:43:14 >> Really?
15:43:15 >>> Yes.
15:43:15 The food you consume every day uses 500 times the
15:43:19 amount of water you drink every day.

15:43:21 So there's our huge water crisis coming.
15:43:24 >> I'm not saying about quality.
15:43:26 >>> Now getting back to city water use.
15:43:28 You know, I dolely, you don't want to be using
15:43:37 Killearn natured water because it might be more
15:43:39 sense -- sensitive to the chlorine that's in your
15:43:44 water.
15:43:44 And the microorganisms in the soil is everything.
15:43:47 And organic gardening or farm, we don't feed the
15:43:50 plants, we feed the microorganisms that live in the
15:43:53 soil, and they feed the plant.
15:43:55 That's the big difference between conventional
15:43:57 agriculture and organic agriculture, is that we are
15:44:00 feeding the soil.
15:44:03 And so it's a concern, right now we are temporarily
15:44:06 using city water on our farm.
15:44:09 But we are only growing crops on it and only until we
15:44:15 feel the well is usable again because of the recent
15:44:18 spill we had.
15:44:18 So we are not using city water.
15:44:21 But from an organic technical standpoint, or legality,
15:44:28 potable water exceeds the requirements for irrigation

15:44:33 water, so you would be allowed to use city water if
15:44:37 you had a certified organic operation.
15:44:40 It wouldn't disqualify you.
15:44:43 But it not ideal, because you have chlorine in there,
15:44:47 and it impacts the health.
15:44:48 >> Cause panic among the ladies who have been watering
15:44:53 their tomatoes for years with city water.
15:44:55 >> No, no.
15:44:56 And things will grow.
15:44:57 You probably need to take extra care of your
15:45:03 microorganisms.
15:45:04 Again chlorine evaporates real easily.
15:45:07 So if you are using sprinklers, chances are, the
15:45:11 chlorine is evaporating.
15:45:13 That's why why you can smell it a lot more in the
15:45:16 shower than you do out of the top because when it's
15:45:18 aerated it causes the chlorine to evaporate so you are
15:45:22 probably getting rid of most of the chlorine when you
15:45:25 use a sprinkler.
15:45:26 >> Are you using gray water for irrigation?
15:45:29 >>> No.
15:45:40 >> You don't recommend of that?

15:45:41 >> I would just say I don't recommend it for food
15:45:43 production.
15:45:45 I think for people's homes it's appropriate to use
15:45:49 their gray water.
15:45:51 And they are consuming their own food.
15:45:53 But when you are putting food out for sale you have to
15:45:56 be a lot more careful on what you are using.
15:45:59 For landscape it's entirely appropriate but gray water
15:46:01 is another issue.
15:46:03 And since I got the mike, I would like to go on one
15:46:06 last thing, is that, you know, we need to look at our
15:46:11 codes and our building codes and requirements.
15:46:14 I mean, there's still a lot of communities that don't
15:46:17 allow you to plant in your yards and that needs to
15:46:25 end.
15:46:26 And the other thing, as development goes in, you know,
15:46:30 I get calls from developers all the time now.
15:46:33 I just don't have time to deal with all of the calls I
15:46:35 get.
15:46:36 Of people saying, can you design a farm in our
15:46:40 development?
15:46:40 And can you design a food system that's built in to

15:46:44 our development?
15:46:45 There is a huge need for that and there's a desire for
15:46:48 it now, and that's the way that development needs to
15:46:51 head.
15:46:53 >> Instead of golf courses.
15:46:54 >>> Instead of golf courses and instead of lawns.
15:46:57 I mean, that's where it all needs to head.
15:47:00 And, you know, I met with developers, and I'm meeting
15:47:03 with a developer next week who is putting in a
15:47:05 development in Brandon, and he wants the centerpiece
15:47:08 of his development to have a farm.
15:47:09 And he wants the whole development to be sustainable.
15:47:12 And those are the kind of developers we need to
15:47:14 encourage, and we need to provide incentives for those
15:47:18 kind of people to be developing on in our community.
15:47:22 And I think the opportunity is just right right now.
15:47:25 I mean, those developments will succeed, because
15:47:28 people want to live in this kind of developments,
15:47:30 where everything else is stagnant right now.
15:47:32 >>MARY MULHERN: You know, we had this discussion, or
15:47:37 Tom gave us a report on what the city is doing for
15:47:40 green initiatives.

15:47:41 And I was thinking about the USF and U.S. tree canopy
15:47:47 study and I think they told us when they studied the
15:47:49 City of Tampa, one third of our land area had turf, or
15:47:56 something like that.
15:47:57 Or one third of the green area.
15:47:59 I don't remember what what it was.
15:48:01 But we had so much lawn here.
15:48:06 So people won't let you take it away.
15:48:08 But we can certainly, you know, use incentives, and
15:48:14 you did in that groan ordinance, somewhat encouraging
15:48:17 it, right?
15:48:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The economy is going to change
15:48:24 things.
15:48:25 Thank you so much for organizing.
15:48:28 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to make sure.
15:48:29 Did you want to say anything?
15:48:31 Anyone else from the city?
15:48:32 >>> No, on the code issue, earlier on, we had talked
15:48:39 about as part of the process going on, looking at all
15:48:42 the Land Development Code.
15:48:43 Second street would be a piece of that.
15:48:45 So we can just kind of tune into that.

15:48:48 And I too want to thank everybody for coming here
15:48:50 because I have learned far more than what I could have
15:48:52 contributed here.
15:48:55 And it's the kind of stuff you have got to start here,
15:48:58 and where we go from here, who knows?
15:49:00 But we just need to keep this whole thing moving
15:49:02 forward now.
15:49:02 So I also want to thank you.
15:49:03 >> It's a lot faster than reading that.
15:49:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Linda, you mentioned the fertilizer
15:49:16 rule, or somebody mentioned the fertilizer rule.
15:49:18 We discussed it generically.
15:49:20 But who is working on it?
15:49:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The estuary, there's an estuary
15:49:27 board.
15:49:28 And they are making a recommendation to all the
15:49:30 municipalities and counties that we stop selling
15:49:32 fertilizer with nitrogen in it during summer because
15:49:36 it causes red tide.
15:49:38 And it hasn't come to the city yet in ordinance form.
15:49:41 We need to ask our staff to do that.
15:49:46 >> When we have a quorum we'll do that.

15:49:48 >>> Bob McDonough, economic development.
15:49:51 I have a funny story for staff.
15:49:53 When I was first hired about six months ago I spent
15:49:56 time going to community groups to understand exactly
15:49:57 what it is people wanted to do.
15:49:59 And we talk about urban.
15:50:01 That's my two areas, the downtown and Channel
15:50:03 District.
15:50:04 And most of the residents I am met with are fairly
15:50:06 young.
15:50:08 And I talked about different opportunities.
15:50:10 I'm trying to get kayak rentals and bicycle rentals,
15:50:14 because there's something we seemed very interested in
15:50:16 that and I brought up the subject of urban gardens.
15:50:19 And the 20-something with that.
15:50:23 It's kind of why we are living in condos.
15:50:25 You know, perhaps could you ask some of the older
15:50:28 people that live in the condos.
15:50:32 Yeah, the people over 30.
15:50:35 [ Laughter ]
15:50:35 So I took my wife and went back to the car.
15:50:40 >> Mrs. Thornton wants to have a community garden park

15:50:50 and nothing has happened yet but maybe it can.
15:50:53 So where do we go from here?
15:51:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, Madam Chair.
15:51:04 >>MARY MULHERN: The first thing I want to do is share
15:51:08 everybody's contact information.
15:51:09 And I think getting -- I don't know, I have to process
15:51:13 it, and I think we have to think about what we can do
15:51:16 as far as council as far as codifying things.
15:51:21 I would like to see some kind of -- start some kind of
15:51:26 committee.
15:51:27 And I would like to -- because I didn't get the idea
15:51:30 that there is any network, or organization in Tampa.
15:51:36 I guess the county --
15:51:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But the charrette is going to cook
15:51:46 something up in the beginning of November and I think
15:51:48 that will be the genesis of this because you really
15:51:49 want neighborhoods who will own it and make it happen.
15:51:52 The city can't be the leader.
15:51:53 The best thing the city can do is not make it illegal.
15:51:58 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm not saying the city should do it
15:52:00 at all.
15:52:01 I would just like to see some professional organic

15:52:07 Gardner, you know, start to do that, some kind of
15:52:10 network.
15:52:10 We have heard from several nonprofit people here, you
15:52:13 know, could be just some kind of coalition or meeting.
15:52:25 I don't know.
15:52:26 >> Maybe there's an opportunity for the city -- I
15:52:29 think we have facilitated this discussion today.
15:52:31 I think the city could continue to facilitate this
15:52:34 possibly with some seed funding especially in the form
15:52:41 of matching.
15:52:42 So somebody mentioned, you can do this for 10 or
15:52:45 $20,000.
15:52:46 So we say, okay, we'll match -- you come up with X.
15:52:51 We'll match it and maybe we have got some properties
15:52:54 that we can lend or lease or maybe as Carl mentioned
15:52:58 possibly some parks areas.
15:53:03 We have some big parks, like Al Lopez park, it's so
15:53:07 massive and we just had a little half acre, quarter
15:53:10 acre, we can park cars there for football games.
15:53:14 We could surely have a little community garden
15:53:16 somewhere.
15:53:18 But we have got a city department, and guests doing

15:53:28 that.
15:53:28 But if we had some smaller efforts to facilitate this
15:53:32 and to goose it along, because that's what a lot of
15:53:37 these efforts are.
15:53:38 We just need a little nudging.
15:53:42 >>MARY MULHERN: When I was thinking about having this
15:53:44 meeting, I was really thinking of doing it at one of
15:53:55 our CRAs, it's a real natural for those areas.
15:53:59 Like I said, East Tampa, I don't want it to become too
15:54:03 academic.
15:54:04 I want our CRAs to do this.
15:54:06 So we made it a topic especially in East Tampa so we
15:54:13 can move that along between all the different --
15:54:16 there's a lot of different --
15:54:19 >> East Tampa, Ybor, Channelside, Drew Park.
15:54:22 >> Right.
15:54:22 But my sense is we need to have a demonstration.
15:54:27 The first thing I'm going to do is go to St. Pete
15:54:29 and -- I've seen that.
15:54:39 But I think we need to look at what other people are
15:54:42 doing.
15:54:46 I just really feel this does need to be a community

15:54:50 neighborhood driven thing, you know.
15:54:51 Just by giving people the opportunity to connect on
15:54:53 this and see what other people are doing, I don't
15:54:58 know, we could set up another meeting.
15:55:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Talk to the mayor.
15:55:07 We could get the mayor's support, whether we do it as
15:55:11 CRA or whatever.
15:55:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: As parks chair I would be happy
15:55:15 under that to push it.
15:55:17 And I think we should plan to share information, maybe
15:55:21 not at the next CRA meeting but maybe at the following
15:55:23 one.
15:55:23 That will give us time to move ahead.
15:55:25 That will give us time to have staff talk to the
15:55:28 mayor, see if we can get the guy in East Tampa to come
15:55:33 up with a tighter time frame to come back to us.
15:55:37 >> What guy?
15:55:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The guy from USF.
15:55:41 >>MARY MULHERN: They are already working with the CRA
15:55:42 already.
15:55:43 I think it needs to be a topic.
15:55:44 I guess we can wait till the next meeting but we need

15:55:48 a report from all the people that are working on that.
15:55:51 Are you working on that, too?
15:55:53 FROM THE FLOOR: No.
15:56:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Come up to speak.
15:56:02 >>> One of the things I encourage is you look at the
15:56:04 big picture, not that you look just at community
15:56:07 gardens.
15:56:07 But we have covered quite a few different things here.
15:56:10 And I think sort of like what Karen is working on,
15:56:14 with the plant C initiative and that sort of thing,
15:56:17 and also consider security as part of this process.
15:56:28 So maybe an urban gardens demonstration is a good
15:56:31 thing to kind of pique the public's interest but I
15:56:37 encourage you not to lose sight of the bigger picture
15:56:40 but as do you some planning here, now, one of the
15:56:44 things, without money, none of this happens.
15:56:46 And so even if you are looking, like John said, some
15:56:51 seed money, with some not for profits or whatever,
15:56:54 that's going to be the key to get this thing off the
15:56:57 ground.
15:56:57 Getting that kind of support from the city and have
15:57:01 the city take an active role in that way, as far as

15:57:05 our food security and our community, and these are all
15:57:08 just different parts that we can all play.
15:57:13 The home Gardner, that wants to collaborate with other
15:57:16 home gardeners in their neighborhood and develop work
15:57:18 parties.
15:57:19 The community gardens.
15:57:21 The community farms.
15:57:23 We are all part of that picture.
15:57:25 And if we are not talking together and working
15:57:27 together, it's more costly and our efforts, you know,
15:57:31 we are divided.
15:57:32 And Manatee County recently started a community farm.
15:57:35 They invested about $3 million.
15:57:38 In a community farm in Bradenton.
15:57:40 And that farm has taken off.
15:57:43 And they saw the value of that investment.
15:57:46 Of course, it was right before the land bust and
15:57:48 everything else when there was still money.
15:57:51 B but that's what --
15:57:55 >> The county commission invested $3 million?
15:57:57 >> Yes.
15:57:58 In a community farm.

15:57:59 22 acres.
15:58:00 And it right in Bradenton.
15:58:02 It's in Bradenton city limits.
15:58:03 And I was a consultant on that project.
15:58:11 But even though the community dollars are part of
15:58:15 this, other aspect seems like, you know, if it's
15:58:18 something you want to do, please don't lose sight of
15:58:20 the bigger picture.
15:58:22 For me that is trying to link all of us together and
15:58:25 be a support system for all of the players that can
15:58:30 bring their different strengths to the big picture.
15:58:36 >>MARY MULHERN: I think one thing that's abundantly
15:58:38 clear is you have that funding.
15:58:40 You get what you pay for.
15:58:41 So if the city is going to participate, it not even
15:58:43 just a matter of finding the land.
15:58:45 And that's why the CRAs -- we own a lot of land
15:58:52 especially in East Tampa.
15:58:53 And with the market the way it's going right now, we
15:58:55 can maybe even afford to buy some property in the
15:58:59 other CRAs, and we have those dollars.
15:59:08 What better place to put it than back into the ground,

15:59:11 back into the dirt there, and that helps us get toward
15:59:13 our, you know, matching grants, and there's also, I
15:59:16 think, there's a lot of funding out there.
15:59:21 So we have to hire professionals, to get anything,
15:59:26 anything going.
15:59:28 >>> There is a food bank in Pensacola that contacted
15:59:30 me and I did some preliminary consulting with them,
15:59:33 and they were looking at starting their own farm.
15:59:46 They had someone who was going to donate the piece of
15:59:48 land and they had hungry people and they had
15:59:50 volunteers to work.
15:59:51 So they had most of the components, and they could
15:59:54 provide a lot of healthy, organic food to the hungry
15:59:58 people in their community.
15:59:59 These are just real innovative ideas.
16:00:01 But we are already spending money on these projects.
16:00:03 How can we make it more local, and really, you know,
16:00:07 maximize our resources?
16:00:08 I won't take up any more time.
16:00:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Oh, I have a question.
16:00:13 The phrase you just used, good security.
16:00:16 We are supposed to be doing comprehensive plans.

16:00:18 Everybody in the State of Florida is supposed to do
16:00:20 comprehensive plans.
16:00:21 Do you know FHP there's any mandate by the department,
16:00:25 DC, a to make good security part of our comprehensive
16:00:28 planning?
16:00:29 >>> I don't.
16:00:35 Typically what's happened is the movement has been in
16:00:36 the opposite direction.
16:00:37 The movement has been to send our farming overseas.
16:00:41 Where there's cheap labor.
16:00:42 >> What I'm suggesting is, we are doing our planning
16:00:45 right now.
16:00:46 It just went back to DCA for comments and it's not too
16:00:49 late for us to insert some additional steps, and I
16:00:52 think the concept of food security is so timely.
16:00:56 >>> Yep, it's timely and it's important.
16:00:58 And we are going to be faced with this issue, whether
16:01:00 we like it or not in the years to come, because as
16:01:04 transportation becomes more important, and as
16:01:07 resources tighten up, where we have invested, they are
16:01:14 want going to be wanting to hold onto their food.
16:01:16 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know, I haven't heard a lot,

16:01:20 but I think it needs to happen in Florida at the state
16:01:22 level, seems like such a no-brain theory we should be
16:01:26 pushing for more agriculture and organic and local.
16:01:37 >>> The vermiculture the other day, I found something
16:01:43 that might tie into home gardening.
16:01:45 In Australia between 1995 and 2000, they used mandated
16:01:50 by the government and helped subsidize by the
16:01:52 government, it had small worm composts available to
16:01:57 homes, and they cut their material that went into the
16:02:03 landfill by 65% in five years.
16:02:06 And in doing that, they created for the home garden,
16:02:11 organic material.
16:02:12 So they killed two birds with one stone.
16:02:15 They first got to recycle, and got to thinking about
16:02:20 putting scrap food and bread and so on into this
16:02:23 vermiculture machine, and they cut down the recycling
16:02:29 by 65% that went into the landfill, but also created
16:02:31 material for home gardens.
16:02:33 And if Tampa wants to get progressive and make a
16:02:36 statement about doing something with regard to being
16:02:39 green, there's the grassroots maybe.
16:02:42 And maybe it's not a community garden.

16:02:44 Or maybe the community garden like Rick said.
16:02:46 That's just part of the picture.
16:02:48 Maybe part of it is recycling at the home level that
16:02:51 makes it conducive with and along with the community
16:02:55 gardens, and organic gardens and so on.
16:02:58 Just a thought.
16:02:59 But it really struck a chord saying within five years
16:03:05 a whole country made that kind of a move by doing
16:03:08 something very small at the grassroots.
16:03:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Great.
16:03:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We have have been's hopefully
16:03:16 e-mail or contact information and I think we will be
16:03:19 progressive on this, and see what direction.
16:03:24 Thank you for coming.
16:03:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, have been, for sharing all
16:03:27 your knowledge.
16:03:27 Fantastic.
16:04:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, ladies.
16:04:04 Interesting subject.
16:04:07 (Meeting adjourned)

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