TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, November 6, 2008
9:00 a.m. session
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08:56:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
09:05:10 The chair will yield to the honorable Mary Mulhern.
09:05:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Good morning.
09:05:16 I'd like to introduce and thank reverend Jim Harnish
09:05:20 from Hyde Park united Methodist who has agreed to come
09:05:23 and give our invocation this morning.
09:05:25 So please stand and remain standing for the pledge of
09:05:30 >>> Good morning.
09:05:31 I invite you in prayer and words from Peter Marshall,
09:05:37 United States Senate in 1949.
09:05:41 O Lord our God, look with favor upon the members of
09:05:44 this body.
09:05:44 Bless each one of them according to their needs.
09:05:48 May they be aware of a mandate higher than that of the
09:05:52 ballot box, a mandate from Thee, to legislate wisely
09:05:57 and well.
09:05:59 We believe that thou will accept these as
09:06:02 representatives of the people.
09:06:05 Those that heir willing to work through them, that
09:06:09 they may become the instruments of Thy will.
09:06:12 God of our fathers in whom we trust and by whose
09:06:15 guidance and grace this nation was born, bless
09:06:18 especially today the president-elect, and all those
09:06:23 elected to new leadership within this community and
09:06:28 within this nation.
09:06:29 Give to them good health for the physical strength of
09:06:33 their office, good judgment for the decisions they
09:06:35 must make, wisdom beyond their own, and clear
09:06:39 understanding of the needs of this challenging hour.
09:06:43 Help us to see that it is better to fail in a cause
09:06:45 that will ultimately succeed than to succeed in a
09:06:45 cause that will ultimately fail. Guide us in how to
09:06:52 work and teach us how to wait.
09:06:56 In the name of the God whose presence is revealed
09:06:59 among us in all things just and good.
09:07:05 (Pledge of Allegiance)
09:07:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you for the invocation this
09:07:32 morning and Ms. Mary Mulhern.
09:07:34 Roll call.
14:52:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
14:53:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
14:53:37 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
14:53:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
14:53:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:07:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: At this time I believe we are going to
09:07:45 have a review of our agenda.
09:07:46 And we'll start with you.
09:07:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Good morning.
09:07:55 You have before you the addendum.
09:07:57 There is a substitution of item 40 that does not
09:08:00 appear on the agenda.
09:08:01 That's a walk-on.
09:08:07 I have a copy of the substitution regarding the
09:08:10 contract for sale.
09:08:16 (Saul-Sena and Dingfelder not here yet)
09:08:25 >>> Jorge Martinez, city attorney's office.
09:08:29 Substituting this contract for sale and purchase which
09:08:32 involves a parcel where the city intends to build a
09:08:37 fire station in north Tampa.
09:08:38 The essential provisions of the contract remain the
09:08:41 same, so you are familiar with those.
09:08:43 The price hasn't changed.
09:08:44 Amount of land hasn't changed.
09:08:46 What has changed are the number of details concerning
09:08:49 contingencies and inspection rights.
09:08:53 This would be section 8 and section 15.
09:08:57 And basically it provides an opportunity in section 8
09:09:06 for inspections to be certified before the 45-day
09:09:12 period expires and will allow the requirement of the
09:09:16 seller to fill and grade a portion of this property to
09:09:22 proceed as quickly as possible.
09:09:28 The parties wish to close in 2008 so to do so we have
09:09:32 certain provisions to expedite the process.
09:09:37 Any questions?
09:09:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Move a substitute motion.
09:09:42 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
09:09:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll do it at that time, number 40.
09:09:45 Yes, okay.
09:09:46 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, on this contract,
09:09:50 there was an article in the paper written by the Tampa
09:09:52 Tribune stating that this building would not be built
09:09:55 for five or ten years.
09:09:58 That's erroneous.
09:09:59 It's expected to be up within two years.
09:10:01 It's in my district.
09:10:03 Near the Grand Hamptons.
09:10:05 I don't know where he got that five to ten years.
09:10:10 It's needed.
09:10:11 Thank you.
09:10:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I never doubted that Mr. Caetano
09:10:14 could build anything that takes ten years.
09:10:17 I know he can do it within a year or two.
09:10:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, thank you.
09:10:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item number 37 is a request for a
09:10:28 I believe the clerk has that as well.
09:10:30 Item 87 is a memorandum we received from assistant
09:10:34 city attorney Julia Cole requesting that that item
09:10:37 number 87, the agreement, with clear channel outdoor,
09:10:40 be continued to November 20th of 2008.
09:10:45 And I believe there's also been an e-mail -- a
09:10:52 PowerPoint presentation?
09:10:53 I believe you have that.
09:10:54 With regard to item number 94, that is a 1:30 public
09:10:59 There will be a request for a continuance for petition
09:11:06 to vacate an alley off of Ida street.
09:11:09 That will have to be brought up at that time.
09:11:11 If anybody does show up, avoid doing that because it
09:11:15 will be a request for a continuance, unless they have
09:11:18 an objection.
09:11:18 They can raise that at the time.
09:11:21 Council, item number 66 is a public hearing and there
09:11:29 has been a request by the petitioner since the grand
09:11:30 opening is tomorrow that this be taken up as close to
09:11:34 9:30 as possible to be able to expedite that.
09:11:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: As soon as we get through the public
09:11:40 comment we will go right to that and take that up.
09:11:43 They requested that and I told them we would take it
09:11:45 up right after public comment.
09:11:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item 76 is informational regarding
09:11:52 the applicants for the Barrio Latino commission.
09:11:58 Council, I am not aware of any other changes to the
09:12:01 Are you, madam clerk?
09:12:04 I ask that it be approved.
09:12:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to approve the agenda?
09:12:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
09:12:13 >>GWEN MILLER: And second.
09:12:15 So moved and ordered.
09:12:16 At this time we will have public comment.
09:12:18 Those who wish to address council have three minutes.
09:12:20 State your name and address.
09:12:21 For the record, please.
09:12:22 You may come forward at this time.
09:12:24 You have three minutes.
09:12:34 >>> Charles Smalling, here representing the towers.
09:12:44 Mr. Chairman and members of this board.
09:12:46 Good morning.
09:12:47 In October, the electrical vehicles have been
09:12:53 operating in the City of Tampa illegally.
09:12:56 They are not supposed to be on major roads, Florida
09:12:59 and Nebraska, highway 92 and highway 60, are not
09:13:03 supposed to be on any roads posted over 35 miles per
09:13:06 They still travel all those roads.
09:13:12 They are supposed to be posted and they are not.
09:13:14 These laws were made for safety reasons of all
09:13:22 There was 181 low-speed crashes last year with 156
09:13:28 injuries, and 39 very serious injuries and four
09:13:34 Will it take serious injury or death before these laws
09:13:37 are enforced in Tampa?
09:13:44 They don't have any air bags.
09:13:45 They don't have any structure.
09:13:47 And it's very difficult.
09:13:51 Sooner or later there's going to be some injury.
09:13:54 And I appreciate you for listening to me.
09:13:57 I hope that sooner or later you all take some action
09:13:59 on it.
09:14:01 Thank you very much.
09:14:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
09:14:05 I think the city attorney is going to address the item
09:14:08 I think it's on our agenda today.
09:14:16 >>> Jim Porter, Ruden McClosky, East Jackson Street.
09:14:22 I ask you to waive your rule to for the number of
09:14:27 items to be on your evening agenda December 11th.
09:14:32 There is an issue getting it actually scheduled with
09:14:37 staff, and we wore working with staff, the agenda
09:14:40 filled up.
09:14:40 I can tell you at this point we don't anticipate it
09:14:43 being a controversial item and we beg your indulgence
09:14:46 for December 11th on this PA-08-02 for small scale
09:14:51 plan amendment.
09:14:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So you want to put it on the agenda
09:14:59 for December 11.
09:15:00 >>> Yes.
09:15:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ms. Cole, you want to speak to that?
09:15:04 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
09:15:06 I do understand we are now at 15 items, but there are
09:15:10 two brownfield items scheduled to be placed on the
09:15:12 agenda but the second reading the ordinance, I don't
09:15:16 see it being problematic but you do have another item
09:15:19 that may fall off that agenda that does have a level
09:15:21 of controversy to it so it would essentially be
09:15:23 putting you back at 16 items, and if that is something
09:15:26 that City Council is inclined to allow, I did prepare
09:15:29 a resolution for you to approve that.
09:15:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If council wishes to entertain that
09:15:34 you can just move this resolution.
09:15:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like to move the resolution
09:15:38 mainly because it's the end of the year and after that
09:15:40 we have a week and a half off, where we can refresh
09:15:45 our mind a little bit.
09:15:46 >> Second.
09:15:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:15:49 (Motion carried)
09:15:54 Next speaker.
09:15:56 >>> Good morning everyone.
09:15:58 I am Laura bell Harris.
09:16:00 My address is 1515 west union street, Tampa, Florida
09:16:06 This is a public housing development commonly known as
09:16:09 the Mary Bethune high-rise home.
09:16:15 Mr. Chairman and everyone, I am here to plead for the
09:16:20 privilege to serve in the seat at the Tampa housing
09:16:25 authority board of commissioners.
09:16:28 That seat was recently vacated by Ms. Karen Peoples.
09:16:37 We were at that meeting yesterday.
09:16:38 The meeting was a resident advisory committee.
09:16:44 I do have the sheet for that meeting, if I may.
09:16:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Can I ask a question of the legal
09:16:52 Stop her time.
09:16:53 Do we make any appointments here at all to the housing
09:16:55 authority board?
09:16:56 I don't know if we do.
09:16:57 >>SAL TERRITO: That's a mayoral appointment.
09:16:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right ma'am, ma'am, you have to talk
09:17:10 on the record.
09:17:11 >>> Thank you.
09:17:13 This is an extension of the request that I made that
09:17:18 someone be mindful and look into the operations of the
09:17:22 Tampa housing authority board of commissioners.
09:17:26 At this time, as far as I know, they are not
09:17:29 answerable to anyone.
09:17:31 I understand that the mayor made the appointment to
09:17:34 the board, but she said that there is no oversight
09:17:38 from her office, so the Tampa housing authority board
09:17:42 of commissioners is pretty much answerable to
09:17:49 I am a representative of the residents in public
09:17:53 The seat that was vacated was the seat known as the
09:17:56 resident commissioner's seat, so that person should
09:18:01 have in part the interest of all residents and every
09:18:09 housing authority public housing resident.
09:18:11 That is my plea that I be granted the privilege to
09:18:16 serve in that capacity.
09:18:17 I got encouragement yesterday for the second time from
09:18:21 Mr. David, listed on that sheet there, he is the
09:18:26 director of the office of real estate development.
09:18:30 That meeting was purposed so that residents could have
09:18:36 input on the housing plan for the year 2009.
09:18:43 Now, there are so many issues that need to be
09:18:46 Ms. Karen Peoples simply did not represent the people
09:18:50 to the maximum capacity.
09:18:52 I cannot say that the board of commissioners did not
09:18:56 represent, just that Ms. Peoples had such low input
09:19:01 that the board function within that you are realm, she
09:19:03 did not substantially represent the residents in
09:19:08 public housing.
09:19:09 At Bethune she said to us, if you don't like the way
09:19:13 Tampa housing is doing business what you need to do is
09:19:16 pack and get out of here.
09:19:18 That was from the resident commissioner to the
09:19:20 residents, which was just not an acceptable form of
09:19:26 Tampa housing also sent me a brand new cell phone, and
09:19:32 I really want to talk with them on that phone about
09:19:35 good things that are going to be happening concerning
09:19:38 the residents.
09:19:40 I do not have the phone activated right now because we
09:19:43 don't have anything to talk about.
09:19:44 And I have not gone personally into many residents
09:19:48 because I have not been granted the official
09:19:53 Thank you.
09:19:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Once again, this council does not do
09:20:01 any appointments to the housing authority.
09:20:02 Those appointments are made by the mayor.
09:20:04 Pam Iorio is the current mayor, makes all the
09:20:06 appointment to the housing authority board.
09:20:08 And so if you are seeking appointment, I would suggest
09:20:10 that you dialogue with her, or send in whatever is
09:20:16 required, application, there.
09:20:17 But this council has no authority in appointments to
09:20:20 that particular board.
09:20:21 >>> I understand.
09:20:23 I have made the application.
09:20:25 Now I just don't know what else to do.
09:20:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:20:28 I just want to be clear.
09:20:29 Thank you, ma'am.
09:20:30 Next speaker.
09:20:34 >>> Good morning, Mr. Chairman and persons of this
09:20:36 board and body.
09:20:37 My name is Joyce Wiggs.
09:20:40 I am a resident at 1515 union street.
09:20:45 That is also the Mary McCloud Bethune high-rise
09:20:49 apartment home.
09:20:50 I stand before you in reference to item number 85.
09:20:58 The criteria regarding the police activity in the West
09:21:04 Tampa not only high-rise area, but the North Boulevard
09:21:12 My concern is the fact that we do not know the
09:21:20 policies and procedures regarding the Tampa Police
09:21:26 Currently they are using the high-rise as, I guess, a
09:21:31 lookout point for those persons living across the
09:21:36 street from us in North Boulevard homes.
09:21:42 At least around 6 p.m., now that it gotten dark -- in
09:21:47 the summer it was a little later, it was around
09:21:50 8 p.m -- could you GOP downstairs to get a soda out of
09:21:55 our activity room and the lights would be off, and
09:21:57 when you cut the lights on to get a soda from the
09:22:00 machine, you would be startled because there is a
09:22:04 police officer standing there looking out of the
09:22:09 You have no knowledge.
09:22:10 I don't know whether they have dialogue with the
09:22:13 housing authority president and board to get
09:22:17 permission to use our building in that capacity.
09:22:20 I just know that I have been startled on more than one
09:22:25 occasion to find them there with no lights on, and
09:22:31 when I cut on the lights, there they are, and I see
09:22:34 the back of their shirt, which is black, saying
09:22:40 And they have not come to us to ask for permission, so
09:22:43 I don't know who has granted them permission to use
09:22:46 our apartment to be their location to watch over
09:22:51 another segment of this population in the City of
09:22:55 Thank you so much.
09:22:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:23:01 Next speaker.
09:23:07 >>> Honorable chairman, members of the council, my
09:23:10 name is Al Davis, 724 east Sligh Avenue.
09:23:16 That's in the all three at-large districts as well as
09:23:22 particularly district number 5.
09:23:26 I call your attention, Mr. Chairman, to item number 26
09:23:29 on the consent agenda.
09:23:31 And I appeal to you this morning to intercede on
09:23:39 behalf of the participants in the parks and recreation
09:23:46 activities and their facility.
09:23:51 You will note the consent form, among other things, to
09:24:01 inform the individual that you can use our facility,
09:24:05 if anything happens to you, you can't sue.
09:24:12 Or you are not to sue.
09:24:15 And I think that's a bit one sided in terms of what a
09:24:21 citizen should be able to read in terms of their
09:24:30 And it can be before the fact but not after the fact.
09:24:35 It kind of reminds me of the Miranda act.
09:24:48 Citizens rights have been abridged because they did
09:24:51 not have the opportunity or they did not know their
09:24:56 And only think that we are asking the council to
09:25:00 intercede on is to at least have a statement to the
09:25:06 effect that the participant may sue.
09:25:16 As allowed by the law.
09:25:28 With this form as it exists, I don't know as a
09:25:32 participant that I would have that option.
09:25:33 And I'm real puzzled as to why the legal department
09:25:41 finds it objectionable to include that simple phase,
09:25:45 because that would balance the awareness on the city
09:25:51 responsibility as well as a reader, or participant of
09:25:59 this form.
09:26:00 Now, I share with you a communication, honorable
09:26:05 chairman and the other members of the council, and I
09:26:08 hope you have given it consideration, and I hope you
09:26:12 will intercede on behalf of the citizens of this city,
09:26:18 as well as the participants in the parks and
09:26:21 recreation facility and activity.
09:26:24 And I thank you.
09:26:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Davis.
09:26:38 >>MOSES KNOTT, JR.: I reside at 2902 East Ellicott
09:26:43 street three nights a week.
09:26:45 And I'm a different person this morning.
09:26:49 I'm going to be talking about prayer this morning.
09:26:53 I don't care what you all do.
09:26:55 I'm talking about nothing this morning but prayer this
09:26:58 And president Obama.
09:27:03 Most of what I had to say I said on radio talk show.
09:27:07 President BAMA is not one of us.
09:27:09 This man came the same way Jesus came.
09:27:14 When Jesus come, he's a Jew.
09:27:20 You people don't claim him.
09:27:22 I mean, he come to represent everybody.
09:27:24 And what I want to say about this man.
09:27:28 I never said nothing until this day.
09:27:33 But I'm a Bible student.
09:27:34 I read the Bible.
09:27:36 This man got something that nobody got.
09:27:40 You know what it is?
09:27:42 Knowledge and faith.
09:27:45 Let me tell you all something.
09:27:46 I'm a Bible student.
09:27:47 And I don't know half of what I want to know.
09:27:50 But faith and knowledge, you can walk on water.
09:27:58 You know why Peter couldn't walk the water.
09:28:03 Peter was in the boat with God, and he would get out
09:28:06 there and he thought he would follow God, and God
09:28:10 walked the water and the water rose and his faith
09:28:14 dropped on him.
09:28:15 But I want to say, you know, I feel like crying this
09:28:18 morning, I'm so full of joy.
09:28:20 I know nobody said nothing this morning.
09:28:22 But me?
09:28:23 I tell you, black people that vote, and when they
09:28:28 vote, I say the only thing they got going for them is
09:28:32 prayer and vote.
09:28:34 That's all they got going.
09:28:35 But this morning I feel like standing up here and
09:28:38 crying this morning.
09:28:39 And you know you got two kind of tears in this world,
09:28:42 tears of sorrow and tears of joy.
09:28:45 Thank you all.
09:28:46 >>> Good morning, Mr. Chairman, council people.
09:29:02 This is an open letter that I wrote to mayor Pam and
09:29:05 it concerns public safety.
09:29:09 At Blake high school in '62 if you ever know what a
09:29:13 short story is --
09:29:15 State your name and address for the record, please.
09:29:16 >>> My name is Eddie Lee Darien.
09:29:20 Dear mayor Pam, first and foremost I am forever
09:29:24 grateful that you took valuable time in March in
09:29:26 October 2008 to discuss, assist and intervene in the
09:29:32 This is a sworn affidavit that I'm stating so nothing
09:29:34 that I say can be used against me in a court of law.
09:29:38 I Darion junior reside at 812 east Curtis street
09:29:43 Tampa, Florida 33603, here is and here on submit to be
09:29:48 true of the confirmed traffic accident between myself
09:29:52 and Melvin Ortiz.
09:29:55 If we do not kid ourselves, this is not about me, this
09:29:59 is about all minority citizens of Hillsborough County.
09:30:02 There's an overt double standard that exists in our
09:30:05 community when it relates to hit and run crashes
09:30:07 involving Delta and personal injury.
09:30:11 Hit and run death by Jennifer Porter two, black youth
09:30:14 and the injury of two others set an infamous precedent
09:30:17 in our community.
09:30:18 Tampa Police Department and the state attorney office
09:30:20 take the state uniform traffic control laws that are
09:30:23 partly flawed and abused the application process.
09:30:27 For example, statute 316.062 states that anyone who
09:30:32 willfully leaves the scene with injury commits a third
09:30:37 degree felony.
09:30:40 Running a steady red light is a crime.
09:30:42 320.201 attached tag not assigned is a crime.
09:30:47 310-1925 careless driving is a crime.
09:30:53 Ortiz hit and run report number one on the scale with
09:30:57 property damage was charged.
09:31:00 316.1925, anyone who gives false report of information
09:31:06 concerning insurance and policy numbers commits a
09:31:10 second degree misdemeanor.
09:31:13 Charges 4647, dismissed in hearing.
09:31:15 Charges 4648, NOLO prosecute.
09:31:20 Charges 4649, dismissed in hearing.
09:31:23 10-8-9-21 which I have a copy of not charged.
09:31:28 He was also not charged for not having insurance.
09:31:30 There's a double standard circumstances evidence with
09:31:35 abolishment as a witness.
09:31:39 Denying 911 caller with initial run to his conclusion.
09:31:43 The above citation status can only be described as a
09:31:47 devious shenanigan to nullify, vilify and crucify my
09:31:52 character. This overt double standard injustice can
09:31:55 no longer prevail in the City of Tampa or Hillsborough
09:31:57 Melvin Ortiz is white.
09:32:00 Crash report 316068 must be inclusive of all pertinent
09:32:04 information of the crash.
09:32:07 These forms must have sufficient information.
09:32:10 Major Honeywell told me in person unequivocally that
09:32:13 the form used by officer Henderson badge 309 did not
09:32:17 comply with TPD policy.
09:32:19 I have a copy in my possession of the charges of hit
09:32:22 and run of me and my passenger.
09:32:25 This process was botched and nullified by the 911
09:32:29 caller who is the key witness in the injury crash.
09:32:33 I wrote Chief Hogue and --
09:32:38 Okay, sir, your time is up.
09:32:41 >>> Thank you very much.
09:32:43 Can I submit this information to all council members?
09:32:45 Because I think TPD, I filed informal and formal
09:32:48 charges and I have not been heard from.
09:32:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, give to the our attorney, he
09:32:52 will make sure we get it.
09:32:54 Next speaker.
09:32:57 >>> Good morning.
09:32:58 My name is Kim, I reside at 1616 west chestnut street,
09:33:04 Tampa housing.
09:33:06 I'm here on behalf of myself, and like Florida was
09:33:16 pushing for Obama. I'm pushing for miss Harris.
09:33:26 But Ms. Harris, I come to this podium on one of my
09:33:32 occasions where not only me but all the tenants in
09:33:35 Tampa housing all we are looking for I'm basically
09:33:44 here to represent Ms. Harris, because once again Tampa
09:33:47 housing authority, we do need somebody to be a voice
09:33:50 for the people.
09:33:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:33:55 Ms. Williams, let me just suggest all those who are
09:33:57 here for Ms. Harris, I suggest that you give a letter
09:34:03 of reference to the mayor.
09:34:04 Again, that would be the appropriate person to submit
09:34:06 any comments or any reference that you have and submit
09:34:10 that to the mayor, and she will consider that when she
09:34:13 begins to consider appointments.
09:34:16 So I just want to say that so you all know, okay?
09:34:20 Okay, next speaker.
09:34:25 >>> My name is Calvin Iver.
09:34:30 I stand on behalf of Ms. Harris.
09:34:33 Because every time I come to like get help, Tampa
09:34:40 housing, police, and over there, I need help, and
09:34:50 she's helped the best she can.
09:34:51 And I wish I could do something about that.
09:34:57 And I'm keeping it in the Lord's hands.
09:35:00 Thank you very much.
09:35:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Iver.
09:35:05 >>> Good morning.
09:35:08 I live at 1515 west -- street which is the high-rise.
09:35:16 I'm trying to get something done.
09:35:19 This is the first time I'm here.
09:35:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Please state your name for the record,
09:35:26 >> Eliodith Soto.
09:35:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:35:34 >>> Now, I have been working with Ms. Harris.
09:35:42 My concern, we have a problem with the building,
09:35:48 always saying they don't have enough funding there,
09:35:52 resource, for maintenance and keep up, you know, the
09:35:56 And we have concerns, I do, anyway, that there's
09:36:03 nothing -- if we have a fire, we have a lot of people
09:36:05 that are wheelchair bound.
09:36:07 And when the elevators go off, how are these people
09:36:10 supposed to get up?
09:36:11 They cannot go down the stairs.
09:36:13 And the cleaning, the maintenance, the laundry.
09:36:18 There's a number of things that I'm bringing up with
09:36:20 Ms. Harris, so we can take it on to whatever sources
09:36:26 need to be taken to.
09:36:27 So those are my concerns right now.
09:36:30 And I'm just getting active in this.
09:36:32 So maybe you might see me in the future.
09:36:35 Thank you for your patience and your attention.
09:36:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:36:39 Next speaker.
09:36:40 Anyone else?
09:36:41 Anyone else?
09:36:45 Anyone wish to be heard today on reconsideration of a
09:36:48 legislative matter?
09:36:53 We'll take up item 66.
09:37:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open.
09:37:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:37:09 Anyone wish to address council on item 66, public
09:37:14 Item 66.
09:37:15 Motion to close?
09:37:19 And second.
09:37:21 Mrs. Mulhern, would you read the ordinance, please?
09:37:24 Item 66.
09:37:35 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented
09:37:37 for second reading, an ordinance approving a special
09:37:39 use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, large
09:37:42 venue and making lawful the sale of beverages
09:37:44 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight not more
09:37:47 than 14% by weight and wines regardless of alcoholic
09:37:50 content beer and wine 2(APS) in sealed containers for
09:37:54 consumption off premises only at or from that certain
09:37:57 lot, plot or tract of land located at 2403 west Azeele
09:38:01 street, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described
09:38:03 in section 2 hereof, approving waivers as set forth
09:38:06 herein waiving certain restriction as to distance
09:38:09 based upon certain findings providing for repeal of
09:38:12 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective
09:38:13 >> Second.
09:38:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Moved and seconded by Councilwoman
09:38:20 Record your vote, please.
09:38:29 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent
09:38:31 at vote.
09:38:37 We will get that prepared.
09:38:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ordinance presented for first reading.
09:38:56 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance being presented
09:38:59 amending ordinance number 2008-138, passed and
09:39:04 ordained by the City Council, City of Tampa, on August
09:39:08 21, 2008, correcting a scrivener's error by amending a
09:39:13 development order for the Westshore area wide DRI by
09:39:16 attaching exhibit A, NOPC, providing for severability,
09:39:21 providing an effective date.
09:39:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:39:25 (Motion carried).
09:39:30 >>THE CLERK: Second reading and adoption on November
09:39:32 20th at 9:30 in the morning.
09:39:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:39:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Number 2?
09:39:38 I would like to move the following ordinance presented
09:39:40 for first reading, an ordinance of the city of Tampa,
09:39:42 Florida amending chapter 1, section 1-19 of the City
09:39:46 of Tampa code providing for repeal of all ordinances
09:39:49 in conflict, providing for severability, providing an
09:39:51 effective date.
09:39:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just for clarification that's 1 dash
09:39:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:40:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
09:40:06 (Motion carried).
09:40:10 Councilwoman Miller.
09:40:11 >>GWEN MILLER: An ordinance for first reading, an
09:40:13 ordinance authorizing the installation and maintenance
09:40:16 of encroachments proposed decorative awning, canopy,
09:40:21 overhangs by Old Hyde Park properties LTD partnership,
09:40:26 care of MW Hyde Park LLC over a portion of the
09:40:31 right-of-way known as West Swann Avenue and south
09:40:34 Oregon Avenue as more particularly described herein,
09:40:36 subject to certain terms, covenants, conditions and
09:40:39 agreements as more particularly described herein,
09:40:41 providing an effective date.
09:40:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Second?
09:40:44 Moved and seconded.
09:40:47 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:40:52 Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
09:40:56 Item number 4, councilman Dingfelder.
09:40:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move the following ordinance on
09:41:00 first reading, an ordinance amending ordinance
09:41:03 2008-149 passed and ordained by the City Council of
09:41:07 the City of Tampa on September 4, 2008, which approved
09:41:10 a wet zoning 2(APS) for 6206 commerce palms drive by
09:41:15 substituting the correct exhibit A for the incorrect
09:41:19 exhibit A that was supplied in error providing for
09:41:21 severability, providing an effective date.
09:41:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:41:26 (Motion carried).
09:41:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Number 5, councilman Miranda.
09:41:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:41:39 Move an ordinance for first reading, file Z-08-55, an
09:41:44 ordinance amending ordinance 2008-173 passed and
09:41:47 ordained by the City Council of the City of Tampa on
09:41:52 October 2, 2008 correcting a scrivener's error by
09:41:55 amending the zoning district classifications from PD
09:41:58 planned development business, professional office,
09:42:01 walk-in bank medical office, pharmacy, specialty
09:42:04 retail, residential, to PD, planned development,
09:42:07 business, professional office, walk-in bank medical
09:42:11 office, pharmacy, specialty retail, residential school
09:42:15 business, trade, vocational, college, university, for
09:42:19 the correct zoning district PD to PD planned
09:42:23 development business, professional, walk in bank,
09:42:26 medical office, pharmacy, retail specialty,
09:42:28 residential, school, business, trade, vocational,
09:42:31 college, university, providing for severability,
09:42:33 providing an effective date.
09:42:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:42:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:42:37 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:42:39 (Motion carried)
09:42:41 We move to our committee reports.
09:42:42 >>THE CLERK: Just for the record items 1 through 5,
09:42:45 second reading and adoption will all be held on
09:42:48 November 20th.
09:42:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:42:51 Committee reports.
09:42:52 Councilwoman Miller.
09:42:53 >>GWEN MILLER: I move public safety resolution --
09:42:58 resolutions 6 through 9.
09:43:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:43:02 (Motion carried).
09:43:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Parks, Recreation, Culture Committee,
09:43:07 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:43:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like to move resolution 10
09:43:13 through 31.
09:43:14 And before we do that, I would like to just comment
09:43:17 that on item 25 there's been some discussion about the
09:43:26 repairs being done at Kiley to ensure that after the
09:43:30 repairs are over we are able to replant trees.
09:43:34 You know, trees were part of the original plan, and
09:43:37 the administration promised us that the repairs that
09:43:41 they are undertaking won't preclude the reinstallation
09:43:45 of trees as a vertical element in the design.
09:43:48 And I'm concerned about this.
09:43:52 In fact what I would like to do is have a report at
09:43:55 our next City Council meeting on a reassuring report
09:44:03 from parks that we will be able to replant trees in
09:44:07 My understanding was that the tree well leaked and
09:44:10 that's why they needed repair.
09:44:12 My understanding was we were going to put in six
09:44:15 inches of concrete top keep them from leaking but in
09:44:18 fact the city put in two feet of concrete only
09:44:20 allowing two feet for something to be planted and two
09:44:22 feet isn't very deep for planting trees.
09:44:25 So I have got concerns about this.
09:44:27 There seems to be some correctly information.
09:44:29 And I need an official confirmation by the
09:44:32 administration that they'll do what they said that
09:44:34 they would do, which is repair Kiley in a way that
09:44:38 will allow in the future to have trees, because that
09:44:41 was a critical element of the original design.
09:44:43 So my motion would be to get a report from parks, in
09:44:48 person, at our next council meeting.
09:44:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let's carry this motion and then
09:44:53 we can make that motion.
09:44:54 You have a motion.
09:44:56 We need to deal with this first.
09:44:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Right, Mr. Chairman.
09:45:00 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question before we vote on
09:45:03 that, if you are questioning what's going on there.
09:45:09 Has the cement already been laid?
09:45:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It is my understanding that it has,
09:45:15 but if they have indeed done something that's not what
09:45:18 they should have done, then they can go back and
09:45:20 remedy it or they can come and tell us that in fact I
09:45:24 was misinformed.
09:45:26 Skanska has done to my understanding a great job on
09:45:28 the park.
09:45:29 They have been cutting prices, been working in a
09:45:31 timely way, they have been doing things very
09:45:33 appropriately and I don't want to hold this up.
09:45:36 But I really need the reassurance that we are going to
09:45:40 be able to reinstall trees when the construction is
09:45:45 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I am going to vote against this
09:45:49 resolution since you are raising those questions and I
09:45:51 would like answers before I approve any more contract
09:45:54 on this.
09:45:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, you know, Mr. Chairman,
09:45:57 because of what Ms. Mulhern said, we are going to have
09:46:00 city staff here at 10:30 for staff reports.
09:46:05 Perhaps we can just hold this until then and get
09:46:07 somebody, get Mr. Daignault over at that time.
09:46:10 So I will amend my original motion and now say I would
09:46:15 like to move resolutions 10 through 24 and 26 through
09:46:19 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
09:46:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So you are actually pulling item 25.
09:46:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Correct.
09:46:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That item is related to purchases to
09:46:29 save on sales tax in terms of the construction.
09:46:33 Yes, it's the same project, and, yes, in that sense
09:46:36 it's linked.
09:46:37 Is it council's decision or request then to have
09:46:39 somebody -- I don't know whether they are monitoring,
09:46:41 but to have somebody from the administration?
09:46:43 Normally they monitor the agenda to have somebody here
09:46:48 at 10:30 but is that council's request to have
09:46:51 somebody here to answer that question today?
09:46:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, it was -- yes.
09:46:58 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: So we are not going to vote on
09:46:59 item 25 then.
09:47:00 We are going to hold it.
09:47:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Hold it till 10:30.
09:47:04 Also, if the attorney will address item 26 raised by
09:47:10 Mr. Davis.
09:47:13 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
09:47:15 We have looked over this particular provision.
09:47:17 We think the way it's written is the correct way.
09:47:20 About a year and a half or two years ago the Supreme
09:47:22 Court ruled that if you start waiving your sovereign
09:47:27 immunity rights you can do it by contract and that's
09:47:33 the reason for.
09:47:34 That it wasn't for any other reason to try to catch
09:47:36 anybody but was done for legal reasons to specifically
09:47:38 not waive our sovereign immunity.
09:47:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I just want to make sure we got the
09:47:43 clarification on the record since he raised an
09:47:45 objection or issue, thought it would be good to put it
09:47:48 on the record why we are passing this or moving this.
09:47:51 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: On item 25, whoever is going to
09:47:54 be here at 10:30 should come with the answer, what has
09:47:57 been done to those pots?
09:47:59 Is it two feet of concrete in there?
09:48:01 And so we don't delay it.
09:48:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:48:05 There's a motion.
09:48:07 Moving all the items except for item 25.
09:48:09 Who seconded that?
09:48:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
09:48:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor say Aye.
09:48:17 Public works.
09:48:18 Councilman Charlie Miranda.
09:48:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move items 32 through 34.
09:48:22 >> Second.
09:48:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:48:31 (Motion carried)
09:48:33 Finance Committee, Councilwoman Mary Mulhern.
09:48:35 >>MARY MULHERN: I move resolutions number 35 through
09:48:39 >> Second.
09:48:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 37 we have a substitute.
09:48:43 >>MARY MULHERN: With a substitute for 37.
09:48:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:48:46 Moved and seconded with the substitute.
09:48:48 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:48:51 Opposed same thing.
09:48:52 Building and zoning.
09:48:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to move items 40 to
09:48:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Substitute for 40.
09:49:04 Councilman Dingfelder.
09:49:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question on the motion.
09:49:08 Mr. Caetano or anybody else who can tell me, I have
09:49:10 not been briefed on 40 and 42.
09:49:13 Those are 1.2 and 1.5 million.
09:49:17 Purchase and land sales agreement.
09:49:19 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: 42 is the developer of the B.J.
09:49:23 area donated municipal site to the city.
09:49:26 Now the city is selling it to the county.
09:49:28 They need it for drainage when they widen Bruce B.
09:49:32 That's what that's for.
09:49:35 >> 42.
09:49:36 That was 42 you just described?
09:49:40 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes, 42, I'm sorry.
09:49:42 So the city got a piece of land for nothing, and they
09:49:45 are selling it for 1.5 to the county for drainage.
09:49:54 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
09:49:55 Item 40 is the S for the purchase of land for a fire
09:49:58 That's all I can tell you about that.
09:49:59 I'm not more familiar with it.
09:50:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I got briefed on this as well.
09:50:03 This is land that's for the fire station that will be
09:50:08 built within two years, my understanding.
09:50:10 Councilman Caetano spoke earlier and the money used is
09:50:14 CIP, to purchase this property.
09:50:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Who briefed you, fire or real
09:50:23 >> I have forgotten.
09:50:24 Somebody came over.
09:50:26 The real estate department.
09:50:28 >> In the future on these big ticket items I would
09:50:30 suggest that administration brief all of us.
09:50:33 Thank you.
09:50:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to point out on item
09:50:38 number 44, there's a $15,000 grant made for rehabbing
09:50:41 a house based on the money that we are getting from
09:50:44 the interstate historic preservation trust fund, and
09:50:49 now the source is available to people who live in
09:50:53 Ybor, Tampa Heights, or West Tampa to get money to
09:50:56 rehab their historic homes.
09:51:01 It's like a little ad.
09:51:02 We are doing it.
09:51:03 We are setting up the process, beginning to get the
09:51:08 It enough to maybe help structurally save a lot of the
09:51:13 house or improve it.
09:51:14 And it's available to people.
09:51:16 And if they are interested they can call Dennis
09:51:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, moved and seconded.
09:51:26 Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:51:27 (Motion carried)
09:51:30 Transportation, councilman Dingfelder.
09:51:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move items 55 through 60.
09:51:42 It looks like we are moving along nicely on the 40th
09:51:45 Street corridor project.
09:51:46 Item 57.
09:51:49 $5 million.
09:51:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
09:51:57 40th Street project is moving forward.
09:52:06 Moved and seconded.
09:52:07 (Motion carried)
09:52:08 Items set for public hearing.
09:52:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move 58 through 60, Mr. Chairman.
09:52:12 >> Second.
09:52:15 >>GWEN MILLER: 61 through 63.
09:52:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved by councilman Charlie Miranda,
09:52:25 61 through 63, setting the public hearing on those
09:52:30 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:52:33 Opposed same sign.
09:52:43 Items set for public hearing, 64 and 65.
09:52:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I ask a question about 63?
09:52:51 Set them for 1:30 in the afternoon which is probably
09:52:53 pursuant to our rules about appeal hearings.
09:52:56 I was just wondering if we want to give ourselves a
09:52:58 little more flexibility, because if we have a fast
09:53:02 meeting in the morning we can set that perhaps for 11
09:53:04 in the morning, and then that might expedite it.
09:53:08 But I'll just throw that out there, see if that a
09:53:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, waive our rules?
09:53:17 >>THE CLERK: December 11th at 1:30 you already
09:53:20 have three.
09:53:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is on the 18th.
09:53:23 >>THE CLERK: You have three wet zonings set for 1:30
09:53:26 that afternoon.
09:53:27 And that's your last meeting.
09:53:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's fine.
09:53:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll leave it alone.
09:53:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Public hearings.
09:53:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open 64 and 65.
09:53:42 >> Second.
09:53:42 (Motion carried).
09:53:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wish to address council on
09:53:45 these items, 64?
09:53:48 >> Move to close.
09:53:50 >> Second.
09:53:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item 64.
09:53:53 File number 2008-8.
09:53:58 Move for second reading, an ordinance designating a
09:54:01 portion of Tampa as a clone zone in order to regulate
09:54:05 activities from January 21, 2009 through February
09:54:08 2nd, 2009 in preparation for hosting the 2009
09:54:12 national football league Super Bowl designating
09:54:16 geographic boundaries, dates and times for the clone
09:54:19 zone regulating and prohibiting temporary outdoor
09:54:22 activities, tents, signage and commercial promotional
09:54:25 activities in the rights-of-way providing for
09:54:28 inspections and permits, providing for penalties,
09:54:31 regulating alcoholic beverages, providing for
09:54:33 definitions, providing for severability, repealing
09:54:35 conflict, providing an effective date.
09:54:37 >> Second.
09:54:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
09:54:48 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.
09:54:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wish to address council on item
09:54:54 Anyone wish to address council?
09:54:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:54:58 >> Second.
09:54:58 (Motion carried).
09:54:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move the following ordinance upon
09:55:03 second reading, an ordinance of the city of Tampa,
09:55:05 Florida making comprehensive revisions to the City of
09:55:08 Tampa code of ordinances chapter 27, zoning, amending
09:55:11 section 27-177, historic district established,
09:55:15 amending section 27-180, alternative parking
09:55:19 requirements, amending section 27-241, methods of
09:55:22 providing required parking and loading, amending
09:55:25 section 27-246.1, special event parking lots, interim
09:55:30 parking lots and residential parking for stadium
09:55:32 events, amending section 27-272, special use criteria,
09:55:37 amending section 27-545, definitions, repealing all
09:55:42 ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict
09:55:44 therewith, providing for severability, providing an
09:55:47 effective date.
09:55:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
09:55:49 Moved and seconded.
09:55:51 Record your vote.
09:55:58 >>CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.
09:56:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 66 through 75.
09:56:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open 67 through 75.
09:56:09 >> Second.
09:56:10 (Motion carried).
09:56:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Need to be sworn.
09:56:15 Anyone that wishes to address council, you need to
09:56:18 stand and be sworn at this time.
09:56:21 (Oath administered by Clerk).
09:56:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I ask that all written materials
09:56:32 relative to this morning's hearings that have been
09:56:34 received in the City Council chambers and have been
09:56:36 available for public inspection be received and foiled
09:56:38 into the record, please, by motion.
09:56:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Some so moved.
09:56:43 >> Second.
09:56:44 (Motion carried).
09:56:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if you have had any
09:56:51 discussions please state to whom prior to the vote,
09:56:57 and if you are going to testify, that you have been
09:57:00 sworn and you signed the sheet outside on the lectern.
09:57:04 Thank you.
09:57:04 >>> Good morning.
09:57:07 LaChone Dock, Land Development Coordination.
09:57:09 Item 67 through 75 all require certified site plans.
09:57:13 These plans have been certified by the zoning
09:57:14 administrator and provided to the clerk.
09:57:16 Staff has copies of these plans, if you have any
09:57:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wish to address council on 67?
09:57:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:57:30 >> Second.
09:57:31 (Motion carried).
09:57:31 >>GWEN MILLER: I move to adopt the following ordinance
09:57:34 upon second reading.
09:57:35 An ordinance amending ordinance number 2008-150,
09:57:40 passed and ordained by the City Council of the City of
09:57:43 Tampa on September 4, 2008, which approved a wet
09:57:47 zoning 4(COP-R) for 4010 and 4100 Boy Scout Boulevard
09:57:53 by substituting a complete exhibit A for the
09:57:56 incomplete exhibit A that was supplied in error,
09:57:59 providing for severability, providing an effective
09:58:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
09:58:06 Record your vote, please.
09:58:14 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:58:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 68.
09:58:19 Anyone wish to address council on item 68?
09:58:22 Anyone wish to address council on 68?
09:58:25 >>: Mover to close.
09:58:26 >> Second.
09:58:27 (Motion carried).
09:58:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano, item 68.
09:58:34 >> An ordinance being presented for second reading, an
09:58:36 ordinance approving special use permit S-2 for
09:58:39 alcoholic beverage sales, small venue and making
09:58:43 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol
09:58:45 regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine and
09:58:47 liquor, 4(COP-R), for consumption on the premises only
09:58:51 in connection with a restaurant business establishment
09:58:54 at or from that certain lot, plot or tract of land
09:58:58 located at 2702 West Kennedy Boulevard, Tampa,
09:59:01 Florida, as more particularly described in section 2
09:59:04 hereof, approving waivers as set forth herein, waiving
09:59:08 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
09:59:11 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
09:59:13 conflict, providing an effective date.
09:59:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
09:59:20 Record your vote, please.
09:59:30 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:59:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 69.
09:59:32 Anyone wishing to address council on item 69?
09:59:34 >> Move to close.
09:59:35 >> Second.
09:59:35 (Motion carried).
09:59:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like to move the following
09:59:39 ordinance upon second reading, an ordinance approving
09:59:41 a special use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales,
09:59:44 small venue, and making lawful the sale of beverages
09:59:47 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not
09:59:50 more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of
09:59:52 alcoholic content, beer and wine, 2(APS), in sealed
09:59:56 containers for consumption off premises only at or
09:59:58 from that certain lot, plot or tract ever land located
10:00:02 at 4401 West Gandy Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, as more
10:00:07 particularly described in section 2 hereof, approving
10:00:09 waivers as set forth herein, waiving certain
10:00:14 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
10:00:17 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
10:00:19 conflict, providing an effective date.
10:00:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by Mr. Miranda.
10:00:24 Record your vote.
10:00:34 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:00:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 70.
10:00:39 Anyone wishing to address council on item 70.
10:00:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
10:00:43 >> Second.
10:00:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name and address for the
10:00:55 record, please, sir.
10:00:57 >>> My name is Torres and my address is general
10:01:02 delivery Tampa, Florida 33601.
10:01:08 I don't know if I am in the right department.
10:01:11 This is my first team.
10:01:13 So item number 69, was it alcohol thing?
10:01:17 >> We already passed that.
10:01:18 We are on number 70 now.
10:01:27 >> I took so long.
10:01:30 I'm her for liquor.
10:01:31 >> What address be?
10:01:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There's a lot of liquors.
10:01:36 >> On the one that was just record.
10:01:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do you support it?
10:01:43 >>> No, I'm against it.
10:01:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you know what the address is?
10:01:48 What street?
10:01:50 >> I left my piece of paper back there.
10:01:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me suggest that someone from staff
10:01:54 get with him and see if you can help him, okay?
10:01:57 Why don't you do that?
10:01:58 Someone will get with you.
10:02:00 Thank you very much.
10:02:02 For item 70.
10:02:05 Motion is on the floor.
10:02:06 Record your vote.
10:02:09 Was it closed?
10:02:13 All right.
10:02:14 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:02:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Now you have to read it.
10:02:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:02:29 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to hear from the young
10:02:32 man that was just here if that's what he's --
10:02:38 He's not sure.
10:02:39 He doesn't know.
10:02:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We can always revisit it.
10:02:42 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance presented for
10:02:45 second reading, an ordinance approving a special use
10:02:47 permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales small venue
10:02:50 and making lawful the sale of beverages containing
10:02:53 alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not more than
10:02:56 14% by weight and wines regardless of alcoholic
10:02:58 content beer and wine 2(COP-X) for consumption on the
10:03:01 premises only at or from that certain lot, plot or
10:03:04 tract of land located at 3401 west Bay to Bay
10:03:08 Boulevard Tampa, Florida as more particularly
10:03:10 described in section 2 hereof approving waivers as set
10:03:12 forth herein waiving certain restrictions as to
10:03:15 distance based upon certain findings providing for
10:03:17 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
10:03:19 effective date.
10:03:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:03:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:03:25 Record your vote, please.
10:03:30 He already seconded it.
10:03:32 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:03:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 71.
10:03:47 Anyone from the audience to address 71 sh.
10:03:49 >> Move to close.
10:03:50 >> Second.
10:03:51 (Motion carried).
10:03:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: V-08-83, an ordinance approving a
10:03:56 special use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales
10:03:59 small venue and making lawful the sale of beverages
10:04:01 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not
10:04:04 more than 14% by weight and wins regardless of
10:04:07 alcoholic content, beer and wine, 2(APS) in sealed
10:04:10 containers for consumption off premises only from that
10:04:13 certain plot, plot or tract of land located at 900
10:04:17 West Kennedy Boulevard Tampa, Florida as more
10:04:19 particularly described in section 2 hereof approving
10:04:21 waivers as set forth herein, waiving certain
10:04:23 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
10:04:26 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
10:04:28 conflict, providing an effective date.
10:04:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
10:04:34 Record your vote.
10:04:42 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:04:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 72.
10:04:46 Anyone wishing to address council on item 72?
10:04:48 >> Move to close.
10:04:49 >> Second.
10:04:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
10:04:53 (Motion carried)
10:04:55 Item 72.
10:04:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move the following ordinance upon
10:04:59 second reading, an ordinance approving a special use
10:05:02 permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, large venue
10:05:04 and making lawful the sale of beverages containing
10:05:06 alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not more than
10:05:09 14% by weight and wines regardless of alcoholic
10:05:12 content beer and wine 2(APS) in sealed containers for
10:05:15 consumption off premises only at or from that certain
10:05:19 lot, plot or tract of land located at 1505 North Dale
10:05:22 Mabry highway Tampa, Florida as more particularly
10:05:24 described in section 2 hereof, approving waivers asset
10:05:27 forth herein, waiving certain restrictions as to
10:05:30 distance based upon certain findings, providing for
10:05:33 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
10:05:35 effective date.
10:05:41 >>> I believe the gentleman wanted to speak on all of
10:05:43 the alcoholic beverage issues.
10:05:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think we have to go back to the
10:05:53 rules or regulations whatever they are.
10:05:56 I have never had a situation where somebody wants to
10:05:57 speak against all the land zonings or all the liquor
10:06:03 He said his name is Torres.
10:06:07 What's your first name?
10:06:08 >> Marco.
10:06:09 >> And what section do you live this?
10:06:13 >> 33601, downtown.
10:06:15 I represent the homeless people.
10:06:16 >> I'm not saying -- there's nothing wrong with that,
10:06:20 representing anyone I think is great.
10:06:21 But I'm not going to listen to someone say I'm against
10:06:25 If you have a specific item, I will listen to you.
10:06:30 >>> I apologize, sir.
10:06:31 My first time, I really don't know my the rules and
10:06:37 >> This is my first time getting involved in that: I
10:06:40 never heard of somebody being against everything.
10:06:43 >>> Well, that's a comment.
10:06:45 >> I'm not here to debate you.
10:06:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, sir, the issue is council --
10:06:52 >>> Can --
10:06:59 Okay, one second.
10:07:02 Now, had what particular item do you want to address?
10:07:07 >>> Number 71, that is addressing right now as we
10:07:12 And 900 West Kennedy Boulevard.
10:07:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, we have already approved 71.
10:07:21 And we are on 72 now.
10:07:22 There's a motion on the floor.
10:07:24 >>> I'm sorry.
10:07:27 1505 North Dale Mabry highway, sir.
10:07:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:07:31 So we closed the public hearing.
10:07:32 So that means we need to reopen.
10:07:35 >> So moved.
10:07:37 >> Second.
10:07:37 (Motion carried).
10:07:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, sir.
10:07:39 >>> I don't know what you are talking --
10:07:43 >> You can speak.
10:07:43 >>> Thank you very much.
10:07:46 I'm here for the -- violation of 29 and 30, the issue,
10:07:58 any input of liquor at all which is under 41 statute
10:08:02 at large, 305.
10:08:06 Thank you.
10:08:08 And I will take it to court.
10:08:12 This is no threat.
10:08:15 As far as Americans, the liquor that's coming in.
10:08:21 We are at time of war.
10:08:23 Everybody is crying about dollars.
10:08:24 We have to support the war.
10:08:25 People are dying over there.
10:08:27 It's not about us.
10:08:27 It's about them.
10:08:28 Thank you very much.
10:08:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
10:08:30 Motion to close.
10:08:31 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
10:08:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You need to allow the applicant to
10:08:36 have a time for rebuttal.
10:08:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you need to speak, sir?
10:08:43 Thank you.
10:08:47 All in favor say Aye.
10:08:52 That has already been read.
10:08:55 Item 72 was read by councilman Dingfelder.
10:08:58 Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:09:00 Record your vote, please.
10:09:08 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being
10:09:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:09:12 Anyone wish to address council on item 73?
10:09:15 Anyone wish to address council on item 73?
10:09:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
10:09:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:09:20 (Motion carried).
10:09:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Miller.
10:09:24 >>GWEN MILLER: An ordinance being presented for second
10:09:26 reading, an ordinance rezoning property in the general
10:09:29 vicinity of 402 east Palm Avenue in the city of Tampa,
10:09:32 Florida and more particularly described in section 1
10:09:34 from zoning district classifications RM-24 residential
10:09:38 multifamily to PD planned development, office,
10:09:41 business, professional, providing an effective date.
10:09:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Caetano.
10:09:48 Record your vote, please.
10:09:52 Item 73.
10:09:57 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being
10:09:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wishing to address council on
10:10:02 item 74?
10:10:03 >> Move to close.
10:10:04 >> Second.
10:10:04 (Motion carried).
10:10:05 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance being presented for
10:10:10 second reading, an ordinance rezoning property in the
10:10:11 general vicinity of 2404 and 2408 Stewart street in
10:10:17 the city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly
10:10:19 described in section 1 from zoning district
10:10:21 classifications RS-50 residential single-family to PD
10:10:25 planned development, place of religious assembly,
10:10:29 providing an effective date.
10:10:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:10:35 Record your vote.
10:10:43 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being
10:10:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 75.
10:10:47 Anyone wishing to address council on item 75.
10:10:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
10:10:51 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
10:10:52 (Motion carried).
10:10:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:10:56 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented
10:10:58 for second reading, an ordinance rezoning property in
10:11:01 the general vicinity of 3601 south Manhattan Avenue in
10:11:04 the city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly
10:11:06 described in section 1 from zoning district
10:11:08 classifications CG, commercial general, to PD, planned
10:11:12 development, dance studio, providing an effective
10:11:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second by councilman Miranda.
10:11:23 Record your vote.
10:11:24 Item 75.
10:11:31 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being
10:11:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, at our 10:30 items, we have
10:11:39 15 minutes.
10:11:42 Council, it's staff reports.
10:11:46 Can we take these up?
10:11:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If there are any staff members
10:11:51 available who are already present you can take those
10:11:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: How about new business?
10:11:56 >> Yes, we can do that.
10:11:59 Anyone that has any new business?
10:12:01 Councilwoman Mulhern?
10:12:07 >>MARY MULHERN: I can't find it.
10:12:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to discuss on new business,
10:12:12 our water supplies are becoming critical due to the
10:12:15 drought situation we have had throughout the whole
10:12:17 And the river is giving us about 40 million gallons of
10:12:20 water a day, and we are using anywhere from 83 to 96
10:12:25 We are getting water now from the bypass canal and
10:12:28 other sources.
10:12:29 And I'm not looking into the future very brightly and
10:12:33 I predict unless we have great conservation, and we
10:12:38 start to come down a little bit, that sometime in
10:12:41 March, February, end of March, we are going to have a
10:12:45 severe drought.
10:12:46 We don't have the supply.
10:12:49 There's demands on the city that are greater than our
10:12:52 capabilities of bringing the water in, because a lot
10:12:53 of our resources through on the sources like Tampa Bay
10:12:58 water are not being at full capacity due to certain
10:13:01 various things.
10:13:02 It not their fault.
10:13:03 And that's the way it looks.
10:13:05 I'm asking everyone to please conserve water.
10:13:09 I hope that we never have the situation we had in
10:13:15 2000-2001 and I'm asking you please conserve water.
10:13:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Miranda.
10:13:20 Councilman Dingfelder.
10:13:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm pleased to announce we have got
10:13:24 two new eagle scouts in our community that I would
10:13:26 like to honor with a council commendation.
10:13:29 They are as follows, for the record.
10:13:32 Charley, C-H-A-R-L-E-Y, S-N-Y-D-E-R, and Brian Garcia.
10:13:43 Brian Garcia is the son of Wayne Garcia, many of us
10:13:48 This is the troop meeting at the Holy Trinity Lutheran
10:13:57 Church on Sunday November 9th for the ceremony.
10:14:00 If I can't present it, I'll ask one of you guys to.
10:14:03 Thank you.
10:14:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:14:07 (Motion carried).
10:14:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman?
10:14:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Nothing.
10:14:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano, do you have
10:14:15 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: No.
10:14:17 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a couple items.
10:14:18 One, I would like to ask -- I received an e-mail from
10:14:23 Frank Gegunde with questions about drug enforcement in
10:14:29 the West Tampa area.
10:14:30 He has some concerns.
10:14:32 I would like to submit this to the clerk and ask that
10:14:36 we get a report from legal in 30 days, if we can,
10:14:42 addressing his concerns with regard to drug
10:14:45 enforcement in the Capaz neighborhood and submit this
10:14:50 to the clerk.
10:14:52 And does it have to be a motion?
10:14:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Clarification.
10:14:59 And I'm not familiar with what you are requesting.
10:15:00 Is it something that involves the legal department?
10:15:02 Or Tampa Police Department?
10:15:04 If it's an enforcement issue.
10:15:06 I don't know what you want to include -- I don't know
10:15:09 what the facts are.
10:15:10 I wonder if the motion is for the legal department
10:15:12 whether it's a legal issue or whether it's something
10:15:14 that involves TPD.
10:15:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Maybe we could ask both of them.
10:15:18 And I haven't had a chance.
10:15:20 I just got this this morning.
10:15:22 I haven't everyone read the e-mail.
10:15:24 So if we need one or the other, I will amend that
10:15:28 later, the request, for who we need a staff report
10:15:32 But at this point I guess ask for -- have you seen the
10:15:39 >>> I have not but if you could have the motion
10:15:41 reflect that administration will look at it.
10:15:44 I can respond or make sure that the appropriate people
10:15:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
10:15:48 So I move that we get a staff report from the
10:15:50 administration, the appropriate department, legal,
10:15:54 and/or TPD, in 30 days, addressing Mr. Gegunde about
10:16:02 the Capaz area, drug enforcement.
10:16:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
10:16:09 (Motion carried)
10:16:12 >>MARY MULHERN: And then I also would like to amend --
10:16:19 we have a special discussion meeting which I put on
10:16:23 the agenda for next week to discuss transfer of
10:16:29 development rights, and at that time, also, the
10:16:33 demolition by neglect ordinances that we are looking
10:16:37 into addressing.
10:16:38 And I would like to just say at this time for the
10:16:41 public that we are going to revise this to limit the
10:16:46 discussion to transfer of development rights.
10:16:48 So we will not be discussing demolition by neglect at
10:16:56 that meeting.
10:16:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Would you like to strike that?
10:17:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, motion to strike the reference to
10:17:02 demolition by neglect for the special discussion
10:17:05 meeting for next Thursday at 1:30.
10:17:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:17:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:17:17 All in favor say Aye.
10:17:19 Anything else?
10:17:20 >>MARY MULHERN: One other thing.
10:17:22 Councilman Dingfelder, isn't there something at noon
10:17:27 today that you would want to remind people about?
10:17:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Go ahead.
10:17:34 >>MARY MULHERN: I think it's a commendation for the
10:17:36 Tampa Bay Rays that will be held.
10:17:42 Where, Mr. Dingfelder?
10:17:44 At Lykes park.
10:17:45 So anyone who would like to come and cheer on the
10:17:48 Rays, we'll be doing that at noon.
10:17:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Very good.
10:17:55 Councilman Dingfelder will be representing the board.
10:18:00 >>GWEN MILLER: You didn't you have something at the
10:18:06 CRA meeting?
10:18:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Oh, if you wish to discuss the
10:18:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, before you do that.
10:18:11 I got a couple calls relative to WMBE and legal may
10:18:15 need to come and speak to this.
10:18:20 It is my understanding that based on the ordinance
10:18:23 that we -- that allows for waiver of bond on those
10:18:31 It's my understanding that contract administration
10:18:35 letting the people know that is not accurate, so my
10:18:39 concern at this point, if that's true, there seems a
10:18:41 disconnect in understanding the ordinance, because I
10:18:43 recall specifically that we placed that in the
10:18:46 And so I'm having people call me and tell me that the
10:18:48 administration, contract administration saying, no,
10:18:51 there's no such thing, they would never do that.
10:18:56 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.
10:18:57 I'll need to look into that.
10:18:59 There's the local bond requirement, there's a state
10:19:03 statute related to bonds.
10:19:05 So we'll need to run that down.
10:19:06 But my recollection of what the small business
10:19:12 provision states is exactly what you have indicated.
10:19:14 But it's somewhat -- it's limited so there may be a
10:19:18 small number of instances where a bond may still be
10:19:21 I'll need to look into that for you.
10:19:23 >> Well, we need to look at that because it is my
10:19:26 understanding that one of the big issues that -- I'm
10:19:32 not sure it was in the ordinance.
10:19:34 So I want to make sure that people get the right
10:19:40 Otherwise, that was a big barrier to small businesses.
10:19:47 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: You are correct, it is a barrier
10:19:49 to small businesses.
10:19:50 There are some exemptions in state law as well.
10:19:52 So for small businesses, we'll need to look into that
10:19:55 and get back to you.
10:19:56 >>GWEN MILLER: The second thing is, isn't about it six
10:19:59 months off they will be coming to us for a report?
10:20:04 To give us a six-month report?
10:20:06 I think that six months -- is it time for that?
10:20:11 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I'll have to check on that.
10:20:13 Also, we'll get updates when it's time.
10:20:16 But I will check with the clerk's office and see when
10:20:19 the next one is.
10:20:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
10:20:21 Thank you.
10:20:24 Mr. Shelby.
10:20:26 Also, legal one more time.
10:20:30 Given the approval of the change to the charter, you
10:20:34 are going to be making that change?
10:20:39 Your office relative to the hiring of council's
10:20:42 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: My understanding is now that this
10:20:44 has passed, it is -- once it's certified, he may be
10:20:50 reading in the newspaper there are some issues about
10:20:52 certifying the election.
10:20:54 But it should be certified this weekend.
10:20:56 By statute it's required.
10:20:59 Once that is certified I don't think there's any
10:21:01 question that the charter amendment passed, that then
10:21:05 becomes, based on the resolution that you all passed
10:21:08 part of the charter, it's a ministerial act for our
10:21:11 office to make sure that's incorporated and then we'll
10:21:14 move forward with that.
10:21:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So it doesn't have to come back to us,
10:21:19 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I don't believe so, based on
10:21:20 provider charter amendment that is I have load at.
10:21:23 We have not brought it back to council.
10:21:25 We had the prior action of council put in the place.
10:21:27 But I will check on that.
10:21:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, if it's not required I would
10:21:30 like to know when the charter changes.
10:21:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm glad you brought that up.
10:21:39 Just a few things about the council, tore city charter
10:21:46 amendment, that was passed by the citizens.
10:21:48 I'm really pleased that the citizens saw through some
10:21:51 rather confusing language and still managed to pass
10:21:54 the proposal.
10:21:56 And I'm not saying that to you, Chip, that the
10:21:58 language predated your being here.
10:22:00 But secondly, I wanted to clarify to the community
10:22:05 exactly what that language was, because some people
10:22:08 will connect come to me and probably the rest of you
10:22:11 and saying what is this charter change about?
10:22:13 I just want to clarify that some people said, why are
10:22:19 you hiring another attorney?
10:22:20 We don't need to be hiring more people during these
10:22:22 tight budget times.
10:22:23 And I agree wholeheartedly.
10:22:25 But the reality is that Mr. Shelby has been on board
10:22:28 in this capacity as City Council attorney now for more
10:22:31 than four years.
10:22:32 So this is not a new position whatsoever.
10:22:34 The only thing we did in the charter change or the
10:22:36 only thing the community did ultimately in the charter
10:22:39 change is to identify the fact that Mr. Shelby really
10:22:42 reports to us, and that's the way it should be.
10:22:46 The attorney can't have two masters.
10:22:48 Previously it was a little bit vague and confusing and
10:22:51 it sort of indicated in the charter that Mr. Shelby's
10:22:54 position would report to the city attorney, which
10:22:57 could perhaps implicate him to the administration,
10:23:01 et cetera, et cetera.
10:23:01 We all thought it was confusing.
10:23:04 That's why we put on the ballot to clarify.
10:23:06 Now we have one attorney who has been here for four
10:23:09 This position has always been authorized by the
10:23:10 charter for more than 30 years.
10:23:13 But now we have clarified that Mr. Shelby's position
10:23:16 will report to this council, period.
10:23:18 So thank you.
10:23:19 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to just say that I
10:23:24 believe that I was the one that made the motion and
10:23:30 asked legal to write the language to put on the ballot
10:23:35 as a charter change, and, unfortunately, no one from
10:23:38 the media contacted me to ask me about it.
10:23:43 So I think that there were some confusing things
10:23:46 reported in the paper.
10:23:48 And Mr. Dingfelder has clarified them somewhat.
10:23:50 But the fact is, we were clarifying the language, and
10:23:54 Mr. Fletcher did actually revise the ballot language
10:23:59 at the last meeting minute with me, and that's what
10:24:02 went on the ballot, and I think it was quite clear.
10:24:04 I was very pleased with what we wrote because I think
10:24:09 when people went to the polls and read that language
10:24:11 they knew what they were voting for, and it's as Mr.
10:24:15 Dingfelder just clarified, it was to have clear
10:24:17 language saying that the City Council attorney was the
10:24:24 attorney for City Council, and that he had the ability
10:24:28 to make recommendations to us individually, and for
10:24:40 specifically council, and we do have a division of
10:24:42 power here.
10:24:43 We have a strong mayor and we have a City Council, and
10:24:45 so that our attorney could advise us independent of
10:24:49 the city attorney.
10:24:53 And I think it also needs to be clarified that we also
10:24:56 wrote into that language that our city attorney
10:25:00 cannot -- I'm sorry, City Council attorney cannot
10:25:11 legally give a different opinion, a conflicting
10:25:14 opinion with the city attorney.
10:25:18 Does that make it clear?
10:25:19 And it is important to know that there is no change in
10:25:24 salary or money or budgets or anything here.
10:25:27 It's just a matter of clarifying language about
10:25:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman?
10:25:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to thank the voters for
10:25:40 adopting it, reiterate that it doesn't mean that we
10:25:42 are hiring any new staff.
10:25:44 And I would hope that in the future that the press
10:25:48 would find out clearly what the situation is before
10:25:51 they opine, because there was misunderstanding that we
10:25:56 would be hiring additional staff, and that was not the
10:25:59 And the press person said, well, what about the
10:26:03 I said, well, the county has a different governmental
10:26:06 And based on our structure, I think that this new
10:26:10 change to our charter will clarify and crisp things up
10:26:14 and avoid future confusion.
10:26:19 So I'm glad the citizens decided to do this and voting
10:26:25 in Hillsborough County is clarified.
10:26:27 Mr. Fletcher, do you have any updates on where we
10:26:30 stand with the supervisor of elections office?
10:26:33 And is the city encouraging the state to come down and
10:26:36 keep an eye on the counting?
10:26:37 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Well, the city, other than having
10:26:42 the charter amendment on the ballot, we have our
10:26:46 elections, as you know, off-cycle, and in different
10:26:51 cycle periods.
10:26:52 So, no, I have not been actively involved with the
10:26:54 supervisor of elections.
10:26:57 I have been monitoring it from a distance, and as I
10:27:00 indicated, all indications are we will get something
10:27:03 certified within the statutory deadline.
10:27:07 But if you would like me to, I will check with the
10:27:10 supervisor's office.
10:27:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let me just give some
10:27:16 It is my understanding it is a technical issue with
10:27:18 the computers so they are having to redo those,
10:27:28 approximately 140,000 roughly early voting ballots
10:27:32 that have to be recounted so that's the problem they
10:27:34 are having.
10:27:36 At this particular point.
10:27:37 It is my understanding that they did some yesterday.
10:27:40 They are coming back again today to continue that
10:27:44 I have been somewhat monitoring that.
10:27:46 I just want you to be aware that's where we are with
10:27:50 Now, when don't control that process.
10:27:55 That is a state Constitutional issue.
10:27:57 And so we need to allow those persons who handle that
10:28:02 to deal with that.
10:28:02 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to say that I had a
10:28:07 different impression, that it wasn't a computer error
10:28:10 problem, it was how many error.
10:28:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, they are having the same problem
10:28:16 in Manatee, and Sarasota had similar problems.
10:28:18 But that's a whole other issue, okay?
10:28:21 Yes, council.
10:28:23 Mr. Dingfelder.
10:28:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I wanted to respond quickly, Mrs.
10:28:27 I apologize, I didn't recall that you had taken that
10:28:32 role as related to the city charter amendment.
10:28:34 If you want to take credit for that language, you are
10:28:36 more than welcome to.
10:28:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I don't think it was the
10:28:46 >>GWEN MILLER: We can move on to something else.
10:28:51 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I may just to follow up on the
10:28:53 charter amendment.
10:28:54 From my view, the city attorney, I don't really see
10:28:57 that change as changing how we are operating day to
10:29:00 day, unless I hear from you all otherwise.
10:29:03 I think that really just reflected what our present
10:29:07 operation has been for the last four years.
10:29:09 So in terms of our interaction with the council, our
10:29:12 interaction with Mr. Shelby, I don't see that
10:29:16 Unless I hear from you otherwise.
10:29:17 Thank you.
10:29:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
10:29:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:29:24 This is not about an individual being an attorney for
10:29:26 the city counsel or anything like that.
10:29:30 It's about a position, a chair.
10:29:32 But I voted against it.
10:29:34 And I'm not ashamed to say I voted against it, because
10:29:37 when you look at what we did, it's going to create an
10:29:40 assumption of fact that we are starting a government
10:29:43 within a government.
10:29:44 There was never a problem with anyone set here or
10:29:49 behind us or sometimes in the outside of this dais.
10:29:53 There would be no mayor who would be as suicidal to
10:30:00 make a change and say, I want to get rid of the City
10:30:03 Council attorney.
10:30:04 That would not happen.
10:30:08 For this mayor, to any mayor.
10:30:10 And some of us will run for mayor.
10:30:13 I'm not one.
10:30:14 And some want to get 3 or 4,000 votes.
10:30:17 And I'm not one either.
10:30:21 I have been that route before.
10:30:22 Let me also say that when you look at what we have
10:30:24 done -- and I was in the room doing some business work
10:30:27 on the phone with other work that I had.
10:30:30 We are not raising any money.
10:30:31 We are not spending any more.
10:30:33 When you look at the statistics -- and I'm asking, and
10:30:36 they said, ask the media, corrects the media. I'm not
10:30:39 going to correct the media.
10:30:40 And let me tell you another thing about the media.
10:30:42 What they report is generally fact.
10:30:49 They don't have a right to write a two-page article
10:30:51 because they get cut by the editor by a small amount.
10:30:54 So what I'm saying is look at our salary that they
10:30:57 were three years ago and low at them now in this
10:30:59 And look what else is coming.
10:31:00 I need a budget analyst like I need an appointment
10:31:06 someone do my work in public works.
10:31:09 I don't need nobody tell me about water and sewer.
10:31:11 I can go find it out myself.
10:31:16 Are we going to have a director of government?
10:31:19 Are we going to have a director of parks and
10:31:22 Are we going to have a director of culture and arts in
10:31:24 the city?
10:31:25 This is a start.
10:31:26 It could be a start.
10:31:28 He hope it's not.
10:31:30 But what I'm saying is, we have created a situation
10:31:33 here, and I listen to myself.
10:31:42 I'm a very prudent individual when it comes to
10:31:45 spending money.
10:31:49 Money is only good for one thing, to save it,
10:31:51 especially in these tough times in the economy.
10:31:53 In fact, things are so tough that the migrating birds
10:31:55 are not leaving.
10:31:59 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:31:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Miranda.
10:32:01 We need to move forward.
10:32:03 Council, it is 10:30.
10:32:05 It is 10:30.
10:32:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Can I say one thing?
10:32:10 Because what councilman Miranda brought up reminded me
10:32:13 of another thing that I think needs to be made clear.
10:32:15 And it may have been correct in the stories I read.
10:32:18 But as Mr. Miranda reminded us, he voted against the
10:32:22 charter change.
10:32:23 And it did say in the newspaper that it was a 3 to 4
10:32:28 vote, and I would like that to be clarified.
10:32:30 Maybe we can let -- the clerk can look that up for us
10:32:33 and find out what the vote was.
10:32:35 Because I think --
10:32:37 6 to 1.
10:32:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You want to know who the one was?
10:32:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:32:46 We need to move, you all.
10:32:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to say that I have been
10:32:50 on City Council under three administrations and under
10:32:53 one of them there was no City Council attorney for the
10:32:55 entire eight years, so it is not true that sometimes
10:32:57 we always consistently have a City Council attorney.
10:32:59 Because under Dick Greco, who I loved working with,
10:33:02 and I couldn't get my fellow council members to
10:33:06 support everything one.
10:33:07 I just want to reflect that.
10:33:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, since my name was
10:33:12 mentioned various times and I am honored they have.
10:33:15 Under that process of which we did not have a City
10:33:17 Council attorney, we saved eight years of some salary,
10:33:21 which more than likely would be if you look in the
10:33:24 print is over a million dollars.
10:33:26 We haven't had a falsification, that attorney that
10:33:30 represented the city represented the council with
10:33:32 honor and dignity just like they are doing now.
10:33:34 So again it's not about the position of the city
10:33:37 attorney or the city council attorney.
10:33:40 They have both done it with honor.
10:33:43 Like I said earlier, I just don't spend money
10:33:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, we are going to move from that.
10:33:49 Thank all of you for your varied opinions.
10:33:51 That's what makes government democracy so interesting,
10:33:54 that we all have varied opinions.
10:33:57 Council, what I would like to do is move to take up
10:34:00 item 84 first so we can get these persons in here and
10:34:04 out of here on item 84, you recall was the item
10:34:07 dealing with the Tampa Bay marina.
10:34:15 We needed a full board.
10:34:17 Mr. Shelby, it's my understanding it's been closed for
10:34:23 public discussion.
10:34:24 >> I will be right back for the vote.
10:34:28 Are we going to discuss it?
10:34:31 >> I want to make a statement.
10:34:33 You are absolutely right.
10:34:35 Do we need to waive the rules?
10:34:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Question, Mr. Chairman.
10:34:40 Under rule 4-C the public hearing is closed.
10:34:42 The motion, I would reiterate what the motion is.
10:34:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What I want to do --
10:34:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you want to address facts or
10:34:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I want to address the issue of the
10:34:53 What I want to do is speak to the motion.
10:34:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You can do that without reopening the
10:35:02 hearing, although my suggestion would be that if you
10:35:06 want the opportunity to have either party respond to
10:35:09 what you say, then it would be necessary to reopen the
10:35:13 public hearing.
10:35:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What about my comments?
10:35:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You do not have to reopen.
10:35:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What I would like to do is make a
10:35:24 statement, and then move a substitute motion.
10:35:29 My concern is that on that particular day, December
10:35:33 2nd, that we really discuss a lot of things that I
10:35:38 thought were outside of the record, number one, and in
10:35:40 the process of doing so we raised a lot of
10:35:42 questionable legal issues, and we also essentially
10:35:48 retried the case, which leaves opportunity for this to
10:35:50 be overturned or reversed.
10:35:53 My concern is what Mr. Miranda said also was that the
10:35:58 issue really boils down to the industrial use or the
10:36:02 barges that was there.
10:36:03 But yet at the same time we were being asked to shut
10:36:07 down a marina and not looking at the industrial use
10:36:11 So my concern is that we want to have a clean record,
10:36:18 and so my position would be that we look at sending it
10:36:23 back to the Variance Review Board or sending it back
10:36:26 to the board that oversees this, also to the
10:36:31 administration to take a look at this whole issue
10:36:35 relative to the industrial use, and so-so the record
10:36:40 can be clear, and bringing it back, moving forward
10:36:42 from there.
10:36:43 That's where I am posturing myself at this particular
10:36:47 Because again, Mr. Miranda, you are very right on that
10:36:50 day when you stated the issue really was a barge.
10:36:52 So, therefore, what I will do is, council, you can
10:36:58 direct me if I can do this, and that is put a
10:37:01 substitute motion on the table.
10:37:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Don't we have to vote on the
10:37:08 original motion?
10:37:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm troubled.
10:37:10 There are two ways to go about it.
10:37:15 The substitute motion is really very different in
10:37:19 Under rule 4-C you are required to vote on this,
10:37:22 unless of course the makers of the motion wish to
10:37:24 withdraw their motion.
10:37:26 That would be one way of doing it.
10:37:27 Otherwise, if this motion should fail, then there's an
10:37:34 opportunity for an alternative motion.
10:37:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So you are saying substitute motion
10:37:41 would not be in order?
10:37:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Under 4-C of council's rules I don't
10:37:45 believe it would -- I don't believe it would be
10:37:49 appropriate at this point.
10:37:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:37:55 Councilman Miranda.
10:37:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I was just as concerned as you are,
10:37:58 Mr. Chairman, but then I realized how the whole
10:38:01 process went.
10:38:01 It went before a certain party of the city.
10:38:04 They ruled in favor.
10:38:07 It was appealed to the Variance Review Board.
10:38:11 They ruled in opposition.
10:38:13 They said that the city didn't have that authority.
10:38:16 They came to us on a 3-2 vote, if I remember how it
10:38:20 is, and I think two council members were not here, and
10:38:23 they are here today, and I certainly don't want to
10:38:26 take their rights away.
10:38:29 They have listened, they have read the documents, and
10:38:31 I know that they have.
10:38:33 I feel confident that they have because I know they
10:38:35 are honorable people.
10:38:37 And I don't know if they have the right to vote, and
10:38:41 then I can tell you this, I still have reservations on
10:38:46 the way it was presented to us, it was presented to us
10:38:49 only on the marina.
10:38:55 That's not the issue there.
10:38:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
10:38:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I can't make an argument for the
10:38:59 opposing side.
10:39:00 I can only make an argument of what we hear.
10:39:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
10:39:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not in dispute.
10:39:07 I'm saying my argument is against myself.
10:39:09 I can only issue my rendering, anyway, my feeling, on
10:39:13 what is presented.
10:39:15 And whether that information was not appropriate,
10:39:19 that's somebody else's decision what to do with it.
10:39:22 But what I received was about a marina that I knew
10:39:27 existed for many years.
10:39:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:39:31 Councilwoman Mulhern next.
10:39:33 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone)
10:39:37 I have reviewed the entire record.
10:39:38 I have listened to what everyone has to say at the
10:39:46 At the first appeal hearing, at the next appeal to
10:39:50 council, I am ready to vote on this, and I would like
10:39:56 to do that right now.
10:40:00 Without reopening the public hearing or any discussion
10:40:03 as per City Council's rules.
10:40:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Call the question.
10:40:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, no, no.
10:40:12 Speak to the motion.
10:40:12 >>GWEN MILLER: I'm ready to vote, also.
10:40:15 I was here at the meeting but I had to leave early and
10:40:17 I listened to all sides, both sides.
10:40:20 And we were talking about the marina.
10:40:22 And that's what I wanted to vote on.
10:40:23 And it was explained to me that the city agreed to say
10:40:28 that they did the right thing.
10:40:29 And I don't think they would say that if it wasn't the
10:40:31 right thing.
10:40:32 So I'm ready to vote.
10:40:33 And I think reopening this public hearing and starting
10:40:35 over again I would not vote for that.
10:40:37 So I'm ready to vote today.
10:40:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, take this as it's
10:40:46 I was totally respect of what you said but you believe
10:40:50 this is about the industrial use but you and I both
10:40:52 sat here through that whole hearing, and my
10:40:54 interpretation is otherwise.
10:40:55 I mean, I don't think it was just about the industrial
10:40:57 I think what it really comes down to is did they have
10:41:01 a vested right that went back 20 or 30 years related
10:41:04 to the entire property?
10:41:05 Not just that corner, not just that half of the
10:41:08 property but now happens to have some
10:41:10 marina/industrial stuff.
10:41:12 But to both sides.
10:41:13 Because we had discussed it at length with council and
10:41:17 with everybody about whether or not we were talking
10:41:19 about boats, this part of the marina and this part of
10:41:23 the marina.
10:41:24 So, you know, I respectfully differ with your
10:41:27 But, anyway with, that I agree with council, let's
10:41:31 vote and see where it goes.
10:41:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, our city code
10:41:34 doesn't provide -- well, first of all, people said the
10:41:37 marina went dry after 180 days.
10:41:40 Whether it went dry or not, code enforcement should
10:41:42 have been there.
10:41:43 There's nothing in our code that says that that barge
10:41:48 should have had the right to be there.
10:41:50 And somebody missed the boat somewhere by not
10:41:53 enforcing the code.
10:41:56 And that's the big argument.
10:41:57 Whether it went dry or not, it didn't have a right to
10:42:00 have that barge there.
10:42:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Just for clarity sake, my issue was
10:42:05 not to open back up to the public but simply to try to
10:42:08 send it back to the Variance Review Board for
10:42:11 clarification on the issue of industrial use.
10:42:14 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm calling the question because I do
10:42:20 not think that we need any discussion.
10:42:24 I thought we were just supposed to come here and vote.
10:42:28 Excuse me, I have the floor.
10:42:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think everybody agrees with you.
10:42:32 >>MARY MULHERN: I have the floor.
10:42:33 I want you to note of that we all listened to
10:42:36 everyone's arguments.
10:42:38 Councilwoman Miller and I have.
10:42:40 And we are ready to vote.
10:42:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Restate the motion.
10:42:52 >>THE CLERK: (off microphone) -- the based on
10:43:00 competent, substantial evidence being presented that
10:43:02 it should continue as a marina.
10:43:05 The motion was not adopted with Scott and Caetano
10:43:08 voting no, Mulhern and Miller being absent at vote.
10:43:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So that motion now is on the floor.
10:43:18 Moved and seconded.
10:43:19 All in favor of the motion?
10:43:25 >>THE CLERK: Scott voting no.
10:43:26 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Going back to --
10:43:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So the clerk -- record the vote.
10:43:41 >>THE CLERK: Caetano and Scott voting no on the
10:43:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The motion passes.
10:43:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just say to council here, also,
10:44:01 I think we need to keep in mind we should respect
10:44:04 everybody's opinion on this board.
10:44:05 And let me just say, since I have been here, you will
10:44:08 note that I respect everybody's opinion.
10:44:10 We have varying opinions.
10:44:15 We don't want to be interrupted by anybody.
10:44:17 Secondly, I think any council member has a right to
10:44:19 come back and bring any motion that they have a desire
10:44:23 within the rules and within the procedure.
10:44:26 So we need to understand that.
10:44:28 So there's no need for anybody to become overzealous
10:44:33 or to become hostile when that happens.
10:44:35 There has to be mutual respect by this board, by every
10:44:38 council member, and in council member dominates this
10:44:41 board as long as I'm chair.
10:44:43 And we will respect each other in terms of how we do
10:44:47 business with city officials.
10:44:51 I want to make sure we are clear on that.
10:44:53 Thank you.
10:44:55 Okay, staff, we have item 76, I believe.
10:45:17 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: City clerk.
10:45:19 I'm here regarding council's appointment to the Barrio
10:45:22 Latino commission.
10:45:28 We have four positions.
10:45:30 Two of the positions we need to readvertise, or we are
10:45:34 really in the process of readvertising.
10:45:38 Those for the architect and the attorney position.
10:45:41 And if you note on the memo that I sent, we are
10:45:46 readvertising in a number of areas.
10:45:49 We will also open it up to maybe some articles in the
10:45:53 paper requesting participation by citizens.
10:46:00 However, we have here three individuals that would
10:46:07 like to apply for two different vacancies.
10:46:12 One would be the Ybor City Chamber of Commerce.
10:46:16 We only have one, and that's Mr. CARROLL west.
10:46:22 He's been recommended by the Ybor City Chamber of
10:46:24 If you would like to hear from him.
10:46:26 And following that, we have two individuals, Mr.
10:46:31 Joseph Howden, and Mr. Jamie Peters, requesting that
10:46:37 they be appointed to the -- as a resident of the Ybor
10:46:41 City historic district.
10:46:42 And we have a ballot for that one.
10:46:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is this a board that has members
10:46:51 who are -- I forget what the phrase is but they are
10:46:54 there in case someone doesn't show up?
10:46:56 They are like -- alternates.
10:46:58 >>> Yes, we have one alternate.
10:47:01 >> Is that position already filled?
10:47:02 >>> Yes.
10:47:02 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: If you would like to hear from
10:47:07 Mr. CARROLL west.
10:47:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Two minutes.
10:47:17 >>> Good morning, council.
10:47:18 I'm CARROLL K. west, 1901 north 15th street,
10:47:24 Tampa, Florida.
10:47:25 And glad to be a part of the new Barrio Latino
10:47:30 One thing I would like to do being an applicant, I
10:47:32 would like to say I'm a shop owner, in the historic
10:47:40 district of Ybor City, and of course that being
10:47:43 nationally recently acclaimed as 7th Avenue as one
10:47:46 of the ten best streets in all of America, and we take
10:47:49 honor and pride in that.
10:47:51 I want to let you know that we do renovations, and in
10:47:57 an 1890 house that's been renovated, very classic
10:48:01 house, and also appreciate the time with you, and
10:48:04 working and making sure people want to go and do what
10:48:09 they want to in Ybor City.
10:48:10 Thank you.
10:48:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to thank you for your
10:48:17 contributions to Ybor City, the businesses you have
10:48:20 bring people to Ybor City, you care about it, you work
10:48:23 hard for it, and because you are the only applicant
10:48:28 with this, we would endorse you unanimously.
10:48:30 So my motion is to accept your application with
10:48:33 pleasure and thank you for the energy and creativity
10:48:37 and investment that you bring to Ybor City.
10:48:41 >>> Just for the other council members that don't
10:48:42 know, I am the president of the district coalition
10:48:47 that's newly founded within one year. We have over
10:48:49 136 members that are in Ybor City, and around the west
10:48:54 coast of Florida, and growing.
10:48:57 It's very positive economic value to Tampa, and
10:49:01 everything that we are doing in making and changing
10:49:07 has energy into Ybor City and I thank you for your
10:49:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion and second.
10:49:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Second.
10:49:13 (Motion carried).
10:49:14 >>THE CLERK: Part of the motion would be to request to
10:49:18 prepare the resolution confirming council's
10:49:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
10:49:28 Okay, thank you.
10:49:31 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: And now we'll have Mr. Joseph
10:49:34 Howden for resident of Ybor City historic district.
10:49:39 >>> Good morning, council.
10:49:42 Joseph Howden, 1709 east 5th Avenue.
10:49:45 I am here for your consideration for reappointment to
10:49:49 the Barrio Latino commission, and I'm currently
10:49:52 chairman of the barrio.
10:49:54 And I'm not sure if what you would like to hear from
10:49:59 me other than I think most of you probably know of my
10:50:03 long and sometimes tedious involvement in Ybor City, a
10:50:05 place that I live in and work in and love very much
10:50:09 and very committed to, and most specific to historic
10:50:13 preservation in the district and compatible
10:50:16 redevelopment of the district.
10:50:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
10:50:20 >>> Can I make a comment at this time?
10:50:26 >> Yes, whatever time you have left.
10:50:27 >>> Whatever time I have left.
10:50:30 Usually when we are here before council, we are
10:50:33 speaking to some specific issue, and that is usually
10:50:37 an issue everything to do with wet zoning, parking or
10:50:40 some structure.
10:50:42 I'd like to say that just to let council know -- and I
10:50:45 hope that council agrees with this -- issues of
10:50:48 historic preservation come before council, and
10:50:51 sometimes they do from Ybor City, of course you know
10:50:53 an applicant has the right in a denial to come before
10:50:57 council, and I would like to just share this with you
10:51:01 very briefly, that I consider Ybor City a resource,
10:51:04 it's not just another place in Ybor to develop, it's a
10:51:07 resource for our community very much like Tampa Bay or
10:51:09 the Hillsborough River.
10:51:10 And that resource should be there for our children and
10:51:13 our grandchildren and our children's grandchildren.
10:51:16 And it's a historic resource that speaks to the
10:51:19 culture of Ybor City.
10:51:20 I hope in the future -- and council has been very
10:51:23 supportive -- I hope you sort of see it that way,
10:51:25 because this is the way I see it.
10:51:26 And I think that you would probably not allow a
10:51:30 property owner on the Hillsborough River, on Tampa
10:51:32 Bay, to do something that would damage those
10:51:37 I know we were once not proud of Tampa Bay and it's
10:51:41 changed a great deal.
10:51:44 But you probably would not a -- not allow a polluter
10:51:48 or someone to get away with something unethical in
10:51:51 those resources and I hope you feel about Ybor City.
10:51:54 (Bell sounds).
10:51:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for your service.
10:51:59 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Thank you.
10:52:00 Now, Mr. Jamie Peters.
10:52:03 Oh, miss.
10:52:08 >>> Not a problem at all.
10:52:09 Good morning.
10:52:10 I was really excited when I saw there was a position
10:52:12 open on the barrio commission.
10:52:13 And from the moment I set foot on 7th Avenue I
10:52:19 fell in love with Ybor City.
10:52:21 I was a student at the University of Tampa, in the
10:52:23 midst of what seemed to be a very difficult decision
10:52:26 to stay in Ohio.
10:52:29 Clearly I chose correctly.
10:52:30 A year later I found myself on the UT campus this time
10:52:34 as a student.
10:52:35 The Ybor night life, I like many of the other new
10:52:39 students piled into taxicabs to the short trek to
10:52:43 I will never forget the first time I saw the lights on
10:52:46 7th, the twinkle that seemed to continue.
10:52:50 This is where I belong.
10:52:53 I was born and raised in a small northeastern Ohio
10:52:56 city named Salem on the historic register.
10:53:00 It is the site in 1850, home to the underground
10:53:04 railroad and participant in the Main Street USA
10:53:09 program and has a preservation society which is
10:53:11 essentially barrio commission of Salem.
10:53:18 I was a volunteer for both the preservation society so
10:53:22 naturally I would want to live in a place that mimics
10:53:24 the same details, preservation of history and culture
10:53:27 as a place where I grew up.
10:53:28 A tribute my love of historic to my architect father
10:53:32 who even though was a big believer, believe the cop
10:53:35 temp rear can ultimately create an amazing space and
10:53:39 have it both function.
10:53:41 As a graduate in 2002 I tried desperately --
10:53:47 (Bell sounds).
10:53:47 Thank you.
10:53:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
10:53:50 I believe we have the ballots, right?
10:53:57 If you will mark your ballots and turn them in.
10:54:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If we have to turn this into the
10:54:04 supervisor of elections it will be a month and a half.
10:54:07 [ Laughter ]
10:54:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Oh, man, I tell you, you all are rough
10:54:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Only following the leader, sir.
10:54:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: While we are waiting on the results, I
10:54:25 would like to move to item 85.
10:54:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to say to both
10:54:31 applicant that it's great to have two such excellent
10:54:34 And obviously we can only select one.
10:54:36 But we have other boards, other openings, other ways
10:54:42 to serve.
10:54:43 And I hope that whoever wins that the other person,
10:54:46 whoever is selected, rather, the other person will go
10:54:48 to the clerk's office and say, I have already filled
10:54:51 out the application, scratch out that name and apply
10:54:53 for something else, because we really need talented
10:54:56 dedicated poem who care about preservation in our
10:54:59 So thank you for your interest and please let us allow
10:55:01 to you serve in another capacity.
10:55:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Fletcher, item 85.
10:55:10 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.
10:55:12 As requested by council, our office looked at the
10:55:17 ordinances and policies upon which action is taken by
10:55:21 the Tampa Police Department on trespass at the housing
10:55:26 authority properties.
10:55:27 I submitted that memo earlier this week.
10:55:30 And essentially provided for you a copy of the lease
10:55:34 that the housing authority has with its tenants.
10:55:37 That sets out some statements regarding individuals to
10:55:41 be excluded from the housing authority property.
10:55:45 The City of Tampa does not have any separate policies
10:55:49 or ordinances related to this.
10:55:51 The housing authority is an independent agency.
10:55:54 But they have assigned the Tampa Police Department the
10:56:00 responsibility of acting as their agent on their
10:56:04 So in this context, the Tampa Police Department
10:56:07 enforces and acts as the agent of the property owner
10:56:14 and excludes people that fit within the policy
10:56:16 statements as contained in their lease.
10:56:18 That includes things like individuals who are
10:56:21 affecting the use and enjoyment of the property by
10:56:23 residents, employees, and affecting adjacent property
10:56:26 owners, and individuals with felony convictions
10:56:31 related to drugs or violent crimes.
10:56:35 I did not address whether exclusion of the property as
10:56:40 it relates to a criminal press pass would be
10:56:44 That's an issue for the state attorney's office and
10:56:46 for judge and jury to review, but certainly as stated
10:56:49 in this lease agreement, the police department as
10:56:52 agent for the property and has the right to exclude
10:56:55 certain individuals that fit within the categories in
10:56:57 the lease from the property, and also I ask the
10:57:02 general counsel for the housing authority Ricardo
10:57:06 Gilmore to be here today to address you all and answer
10:57:09 any questions that you all may have.
10:57:12 That concludes my presentation.
10:57:13 If you would like me to defer to Mr. Gilmore I would
10:57:18 be happy to do that at this point.
10:57:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to hear from Mr.
10:57:26 Gilmore, but I'll be up next.
10:57:28 >>> Mr. Chairman, council members.
10:57:32 I think all I can do is clarify how we got to the
10:57:38 provisions in our lease that were important to us.
10:57:42 And it has to do with history.
10:57:45 Many years ago, back in 1994, I believe, there was a
10:57:50 case, mark Anthony Daniel versus the City of Tampa and
10:57:54 the Tampa housing authority.
10:57:57 It pretty much set the parameters as it went from
10:58:00 Tampa all the way to the Supreme Court of the United
10:58:02 States of how we can look at housing authority
10:58:08 It is not public property per se.
10:58:10 It is quasi public property.
10:58:13 And there are rules, and we can institute to try to
10:58:16 have a safe environment on our property.
10:58:20 As a result of that case, and working with the Tampa
10:58:24 Police Department at that time, ever since 1996, at
10:58:29 least, the provision that you may have in front of
10:58:32 you -- I'm not sure if you do -- but the provision in
10:58:34 our lease that deals with trespassing, banning of
10:58:39 persons behind properties, has been in effect.
10:58:43 It is not an arbitrary position.
10:58:46 It is a position that we take, because the things that
10:58:51 a person can be trespassed for and the things that I
10:58:55 guess even can be excluded from our property are
10:58:58 exactly the same things and the same types of
10:59:01 violations that a resident can be evicted from our
10:59:05 property if they engage in, so it follows the same
10:59:11 thing that other things that residents agree to in our
10:59:15 lease, that they can be excluded from our property.
10:59:19 It's a valuable tool that we are trying to make
10:59:21 available to our agent, the Tampa Police Department,
10:59:25 in my opinion, if there's a law abiding citizen who is
10:59:29 on our property, that has been invited on our property
10:59:34 validly, none of these provisions effect that.
10:59:39 I think that's coined of the overview.
10:59:41 I would be happy to answer any questions if you have
10:59:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
10:59:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Gilmore, you are saying this
10:59:49 provision has been around for about 12 years to the
10:59:52 best of your knowledge.
10:59:54 I just wanted to comment.
10:59:56 You know, I was just up in one of the projects the
10:59:59 other day on a campaign event, and it definitely
11:00:08 opened my eyes to the very tough challenge that the
11:00:11 housing authority has, on a day-to-day basis.
11:00:16 It's a tough challenge, because on the one hand, you
11:00:19 as a lawyer are sworn to uphold the Constitution, and
11:00:23 you do I'm sure on a day-to-day basis, and your
11:00:27 organization has challenges that you need to protect
11:00:31 the Constitutional rights of your residents and the
11:00:33 But, on the other hand, you have to provide, as the
11:00:37 lease says, decent and fair and safe housing for
11:00:41 And I think that's the tough challenge that you face
11:00:43 day to day.
11:00:43 This provision has been in place for 12 years.
11:00:46 I have been on council for six years.
11:00:48 Many others have been here for longer.
11:00:50 We haven't received many complaints.
11:00:52 I mean, recently in this last month we have gotten
11:00:55 this one group related to one particular family or one
11:00:58 particular incident that seems to be boiling this out.
11:01:02 But I'm not inviting people to come down here and, you
11:01:05 know, and do that either.
11:01:06 That's not my point.
11:01:07 But my point is that it seems to be very isolated
11:01:10 I'm sure that you guys are well aware of it and on top
11:01:14 of it and I hope that you will take care of it and
11:01:17 deal with it appropriately.
11:01:18 But I'm pretty comfortable with the way this has been
11:01:23 And it is related to the city, because TPD, you know,
11:01:26 gets involved.
11:01:28 But frankly, I think from what I can see and hear, I
11:01:32 think TPD has been doing a pretty good job on this and
11:01:34 they too have a tough balance.
11:01:36 You guys do.
11:01:37 And until I hear otherwise I'm comfortable with the
11:01:40 job you all are doing.
11:01:41 Thank you.
11:01:42 >>> If I may comment, councilman Dingfelder.
11:01:46 The point you made is very accurate.
11:01:48 It's tough to try to balance all the Constitutional
11:01:52 rights that people are entitled to.
11:01:54 And to do what we have to do in terms of the
11:01:57 properties there, we are responsible for.
11:02:00 The way that this provision is written, in my opinion,
11:02:03 allows for that.
11:02:04 It also, at the end of the provision, says that we
11:02:09 will exercise what we put in our lease, to the extent
11:02:12 allowable by law.
11:02:14 So whenever these come before a judge, and a
11:02:17 judiciary, if there's a problem with how we have put
11:02:20 information in our lease, it comes under scrutiny and
11:02:23 if there's a problem it will come forward.
11:02:25 So it is a challenge, and I appreciate you recognize
11:02:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And on the other hand there's a
11:02:31 disconnect, which the city attorney and I have
11:02:35 discussed that, a disconnect with the trespass issue
11:02:37 and the court system.
11:02:38 Because what is happening is that when you do a
11:02:40 trespass, the courts -- at the state attorney someone
11:02:45 is throwing them out and at least on one instance I
11:02:49 saw the judge wrote this person did not trespass so
11:02:51 there is a disconnect with that.
11:02:53 And I think Mr. Fletcher can attest to that because we
11:02:57 have had this discussion.
11:02:58 The other issue for us to look at, also, is I think we
11:03:03 all agree we want people to have clean, safe housing,
11:03:09 a public safety issue.
11:03:10 I think we all want to do that.
11:03:12 That is not our issue.
11:03:13 We think people live in public housing have a right to
11:03:16 live in a safe environment, they have a right to come
11:03:19 out without being harassed and intimidated to face
11:03:22 drug problems, whatever.
11:03:24 On the other hand, as a citizen, if I have been
11:03:28 convicted of a crime, I paid my debt to society, I
11:03:32 should not be subject to being pulled over every time,
11:03:36 unless I'm doing something illegal.
11:03:39 I have the same rights under the law to be protected
11:03:42 under the Constitution.
11:03:44 If I committed a crime, I paid my dues to society, I
11:03:47 come back out, I should not be subject to harassment
11:03:51 by anybody, unless, here again, I am committing an
11:03:57 offense or crime.
11:03:59 Am I right on that?
11:04:01 >>> Yes, sir.
11:04:01 And if you read the provisions, Mr. Chair, in our
11:04:05 lease, it's tied to actions that are taken on the
11:04:10 It's not tied to previous action.
11:04:14 We are not trying to exclude anybody who has a
11:04:15 right-of-way to be there.
11:04:17 Now one of the things you said I think is very
11:04:19 And if it's done anything, it has allowed for and I
11:04:24 think it needs to continue a dialogue between the
11:04:27 housing authority, the police department, the state
11:04:29 attorney's office, about our provision and how it
11:04:34 should be enforced.
11:04:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:04:39 It's my understanding that you all are meeting with
11:04:41 the state attorney as well to low at this whole usual
11:04:44 you of trespass.
11:04:45 Mr. Fletcher?
11:04:47 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes, we have, and we will continue
11:04:51 to do that.
11:04:52 And there's a fairly complicated set of cases related
11:04:58 to the issue of someone being invited on the property,
11:05:00 and when the criminal sanctions attach, and rather
11:05:04 than getting into all that, we are trying to focus in
11:05:07 and make sure everybody is aware of what the standards
11:05:11 are, both the residents and those other people that
11:05:14 frequent the property, and to make sure that they are
11:05:17 clear as to what their rights and responsibilities
11:05:18 are, and their legal limitations.
11:05:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions by council?
11:05:25 Thank you.
11:05:26 Thank you very much.
11:05:29 We move -- I'm sorry.
11:05:34 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: City clerk.
11:05:36 Council, the individual that you selected to fill the
11:05:41 residents of the Ybor City historic district is Mr.
11:05:44 Joseph Howden.
11:05:46 Thank you.
11:05:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
11:05:49 Thank you, both applicants again.
11:05:52 >>> May I make one equipment comment about that
11:05:55 Thank you.
11:05:55 And the young lady who, the other applicant, I highly
11:05:59 encourage her to be involved.
11:06:00 It's an uphill battle in Ybor City.
11:06:02 We need all the help we can get.
11:06:03 Her enthusiasm is exciting.
11:06:05 And to that point, I think this is one of those
11:06:08 moments where I think it's unfortunate we have one
11:06:10 resident seat on the Barrio Latino, because you never
11:06:12 really care for an area as much as you do when you
11:06:15 live in it.
11:06:16 And so that's something I think in the future that
11:06:19 should be revisited.
11:06:20 But thank you.
11:06:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
11:06:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: May we have a motion ratifying that
11:06:25 decision, and directing that a resolution come back
11:06:28 memorializing it?
11:06:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
11:06:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
11:06:33 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:06:36 So moved and ordered.
11:06:38 Item 77.
11:06:42 >>> Dennis Fernandez, historic preservation manager.
11:06:49 In response to your motion, recent motion to provide
11:06:53 information regarding the request to investigate the
11:06:55 feasibility of designating Rogers Park golf course as
11:07:01 a historic -- and the building as a historic structure
11:07:05 the preservation staff has initiated research into the
11:07:08 property and the history of the names associated with
11:07:12 the property.
11:07:14 We have contacted the state historic preservation
11:07:16 office to inquire into a national registered
11:07:19 designation, and the feasibility of a property such as
11:07:22 this as being listed on the national register of
11:07:25 historic places.
11:07:26 Our initial contact with them was positive.
11:07:28 They have access to follow up with some form of
11:07:32 documentation dealing with eligibility requirements
11:07:34 and whatnot.
11:07:35 And we will be doing that.
11:07:37 If it is the desire of City Council to request that
11:07:43 the Historic Preservation Commission take a look at
11:07:46 this, it would pertain to local historic designation,
11:07:49 you may want to do so in the form of a motion.
11:07:52 However, to date we are just beginning research on
11:07:56 We have reached out to certain entities.
11:07:58 We have other individuals.
11:07:59 We do need an opportunity to speak with them and get
11:08:03 them background data that we need to move forward with
11:08:06 any type of designation, whether that be national or
11:08:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
11:08:12 Good to hear that.
11:08:13 So the state is very receptive of this moving towards
11:08:16 a national registered designation thing for Rogers
11:08:21 You also say you needed a motion to low at it from a
11:08:24 local designation.
11:08:25 I thought that's what we did last meeting that we
11:08:27 actually ought to investigate that and come back with
11:08:30 more information, was that feasible to move with the
11:08:34 local designation.
11:08:37 Which deals with the structure of the facility.
11:08:40 >>> For that to actually go before the national
11:08:44 historic commission I would need more time to put
11:08:46 together the necessary information for them to make
11:08:48 their determination.
11:08:49 We just received this a week ago.
11:08:50 So there's quite a bit of research, and we haven't had
11:08:54 an opportunity to talk about the different parties
11:08:56 involved yet.
11:08:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
11:08:57 And I thought I was clear in my motion that you all
11:09:00 investigate that and look at that and then come back
11:09:02 with a recommendation to this council.
11:09:04 So it was -- the motion was giving you the opportunity
11:09:08 to go and do whatever you need to do, and then come
11:09:12 back with a recommendation.
11:09:13 But if you need another motion, I'll be more than
11:09:15 happy to do that in a minute.
11:09:18 Number one, the motion was low at it from a national
11:09:20 standpoint, so that looks favorable, is what I am
11:09:24 hearing you saying, right?
11:09:25 So you all can move forward with that.
11:09:27 >>> We can, yes, sir.
11:09:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you need a motion for that?
11:09:31 >>> No, sir.
11:09:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:09:34 The local designation, we can make a motion shortly
11:09:39 here but you can make a motion to look at the
11:09:41 structure in terms of local designation.
11:09:43 >>> The Historic Preservation Commission, we haven't
11:09:47 had an opportunity to schedule that before them.
11:09:49 They meet monthly.
11:09:50 We would be able to if that's the pleasure of the
11:09:53 board schedule that in December.
11:09:55 And have a discussion about it.
11:09:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:10:00 Council, Mr. Ransom is here, and Rogers Park, I don't
11:10:12 know what we have done in the past for comments.
11:10:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You can by unanimous consent allow
11:10:18 him to speak.
11:10:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What are we speaking on?
11:10:20 >> He wants to speak on Rogers Park, about the
11:10:22 national register designation.
11:10:25 >>GWEN MILLER: I say we wait till we get all the
11:10:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, there's a motion on the floor.
11:10:32 >>GWEN MILLER: It's on the motion.
11:10:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's what I'm saying, the motion was
11:10:41 made, right?
11:10:42 Motion made by Councilwoman Saul-Sena, and seconded by
11:10:47 All in favor, three minutes, signify by saying Aye.
11:10:54 The motion was to speak, give him three minutes to
11:10:57 speak about the designation.
11:10:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you know how many staff reports we
11:11:01 have if everybody wants to speak?
11:11:02 I think we are setting the wrong precedence, we will
11:11:05 be here all day long.
11:11:06 If we do it for one we have to do it for everybody.
11:11:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:11:09 Motion has carried, I understand.
11:11:11 Motion carried.
11:11:13 Mr. Ransom has three minutes to speak.
11:11:17 >>GWEN MILLER: I didn't vote for it.
11:11:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I thought you did.
11:11:23 I thought the chairman stated motion.
11:11:25 I stated the name.
11:11:26 Councilwoman Saul-Sena and seconded by Councilwoman
11:11:30 Mary Mulhern.
11:11:31 I said all in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:11:33 I think Mr. Caetano has left the room, and -- okay.
11:11:38 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:11:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Nay.
11:11:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You have three minutes to speak to the
11:11:48 historic designation.
11:11:49 >>> James Ransom, one of the surviving members of the
11:11:56 late Rogers, and I did pass out for your review.
11:11:59 I won't read it since I don't want to run out of time,
11:12:03 for your review, that citizens keeping Rogers Park
11:12:08 public, a group formed back in late 1990 working with
11:12:11 my family members and I represented regarding Rogers
11:12:15 Park and the concern of the citizens about the history
11:12:18 and negatives and about having the public having
11:12:22 access and use of Rogers Park forever.
11:12:25 It's a publicly owned piece of property, all the
11:12:28 buildings and facilities are publicly owned, and the
11:12:30 city should be obligated to bring the buildings up to
11:12:34 code, maintain the properties in its agreement with
11:12:36 the Tampa Sports Authority.
11:12:37 I won't get into some of the other issues that bring
11:12:42 back before you today but talking about historic
11:12:43 preservation, we are concerned that having -- we
11:12:46 understand there might be some construction that might
11:12:49 be on the historic provisional building.
11:12:54 We caution this council to speak or stop anything over
11:12:58 there until there is some careful discussion, and
11:13:01 research done on what impact that may have on the
11:13:04 historic designation of the historic building on that
11:13:07 We also would like to have the city to review the
11:13:12 contract between the Sports Authority and we like some
11:13:20 of the things that are being offered, but the vehicles
11:13:22 they are using are not the right ones to get the job
11:13:26 And we'll come back before council to discuss all of
11:13:28 those in detail with you at a later date.
11:13:31 But please take your time, slow this train down.
11:13:35 It's very important for the African-American
11:13:37 community, it's a hollow ground to us, to protect
11:13:43 Rogers Park and its history to a special interest
11:13:46 group who have to vote and pay taxes, and then for the
11:13:50 betterment of what it means to the whole community and
11:13:52 its history and what we can all learn from this great
11:13:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you for being here.
11:14:00 Any questions?
11:14:01 Thank you very much.
11:14:05 Item 78.
11:14:05 >>> If I might interrupt.
11:14:09 In order to ensure the process moves forward the way
11:14:11 the process is intended, I think the best thing to do
11:14:14 is have City Council make a motion requesting the HPC
11:14:19 to look at the process for designating Rogers Park.
11:14:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I will make the motion since the vice
11:14:28 chair is not here, and submit that to HPC.
11:14:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question on the motion.
11:14:36 I'll second it and ask a question on the motion.
11:14:44 I just want to make sure that by directing that --
11:14:50 Julia, by supporting the motion, which I don't have a
11:14:53 problem with, if it's a historic building or historic
11:14:56 structure, let the process continue.
11:14:58 But Mr. Ransom in his letter indicates he wants us to
11:15:05 effectively enjoin construction and that sort of
11:15:08 thing, and that's not the intent of the motion.
11:15:10 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:15:11 No, I mean, this would just be initiating the process,
11:15:15 and Weaver a very detailed process in our code as to
11:15:17 how that needs to proceed, but anything that's in the
11:15:19 works wouldn't be subject to that, so you have to be
11:15:22 under the process.
11:15:24 >> And the other thing is, generally speaking, when we
11:15:26 designate a historic structure it usually deals with
11:15:29 the exterior.
11:15:34 It's my understanding.
11:15:35 Except maybe there are some unusual exceptions but I
11:15:37 think most of the time when we have a historic
11:15:39 designation it's to protect the exterior.
11:15:42 There are any exterior renovations being done related
11:15:45 to this?
11:15:45 Maybe Karen knows.
11:15:46 >>> That I don't know the answer to, I'm sorry.
11:15:54 >>KAREN PALUS: Parks and recreation director.
11:15:56 I'm not aware of any exterior.
11:15:57 But it's something we can definitely follow up on and
11:16:00 very if I.
11:16:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Other discussion?
11:16:06 Mr. Fernandez, did you want to clarify?
11:16:11 >>DENNIS FERNANDEZ: Just the process. If there's work
11:16:13 that's being conducted currently prior to the
11:16:15 designation of any type going through, you know, we
11:16:19 don't have a mechanism within preservation ordinance
11:16:22 to have that.
11:16:24 We begin at the time when the ordinances are passed.
11:16:28 That's when the historic preservation component would
11:16:32 apply to the building.
11:16:33 >> Are you familiar with what's being done now and are
11:16:35 you familiar with --
11:16:37 >>> I did visit the site last week.
11:16:39 I didn't notice exterior work being done on the
11:16:44 accessory structure that's presently there.
11:16:45 There was some seemed to be superior construction
11:16:49 I didn't notice exterior.
11:16:50 However, it's very preliminary.
11:16:52 I haven't done enough research to really determine
11:16:54 what the scenario is.
11:16:57 At this time.
11:16:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Any other discussion?
11:17:00 All those in favor of the motion, which is to request
11:17:03 that the staff get going on the work -- the research,
11:17:07 say Aye.
11:17:09 Opposed, Nay.
11:17:10 Passed unanimously.
11:17:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
11:17:15 Item 78.
11:17:22 >>KAREN PALUS: Parks and recreation director.
11:17:24 We are here on item 78, Brad Baird, our water
11:17:29 department director.
11:17:29 I am going to portion a -- cover a portion of that, to
11:17:32 report on the city water utilized by the Parks and
11:17:37 Recreation Department.
11:17:38 I believe everybody received a copy of the memo
11:17:40 submitted and for the record I would like for fiscal
11:17:43 year 2008, amount of potable water used was just
11:17:48 pretty close to $400,000 with all of our parks
11:17:52 facilities and such, and that equates to about a
11:17:55 little over 185 for that.
11:18:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Karen, I guess -- perhaps I didn't
11:18:07 ask the question appropriately.
11:18:10 The last time.
11:18:11 Are we going in the right direction?
11:18:12 Are we using less potable and more reclaimed water in
11:18:15 our city parks and rec system?
11:18:17 Obviously, the potable is not going to change in the
11:18:20 interior of the buildings, drinking water, et cetera.
11:18:23 But obviously that's probably a small component of
11:18:25 what we use.
11:18:26 >>> Actually our water bills over the last three years
11:18:29 have continued to decrease of the everything that we
11:18:31 have access to currently within the city system that
11:18:35 we are responsible for is reclaimed, if we have access
11:18:38 to it right now.
11:18:39 So all of our parks facilities and all of our medians
11:18:42 that are currently on our central control system which
11:18:45 means we monitor, regulate Lowry Park, anything that's
11:18:50 hooked up to that and has access to reclaimed is on
11:18:53 Anything new going forward that has access to
11:18:55 reclaimed is on there.
11:18:56 And we work very closely with the water department in
11:18:59 making those connections.
11:19:00 >> Have we switched over part of the Bayshore, the
11:19:03 Hyde Park part of the Bayshore?
11:19:05 Because I know reclaimed only goes up to Howard or
11:19:08 But --
11:19:10 >>> We are in the process of doing that and working
11:19:11 with the water department now.
11:19:13 >> So any park that has access on the Bayshore will be
11:19:18 switched over soon?
11:19:19 >>> Correct.
11:19:20 >> According to the report it looks like we are doing
11:19:23 a good job in that regard.
11:19:25 >>> We have add sod additional features, we are able
11:19:27 to monitor our components and evaporation, so we
11:19:33 continue to make sure we are putting the right amount
11:19:35 of water.
11:19:36 >> The MIR system.
11:19:37 It sounds like we are going to the moon.
11:19:39 >>> I tell you, it's a great system and we are very
11:19:42 fortunate to be able to do that throughout the city.
11:19:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Ms. Palus, I believe you are also
11:19:50 here to speak on 83?
11:19:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do we have any other questions?
11:19:54 >> It's part of 78 and then I will be glad to come up.
11:19:57 >>BRAD BAIRD: Water department.
11:20:01 The second part is with regard to Florida friendly
11:20:04 landscape rebate program, submitted a report to you
11:20:10 last week.
11:20:10 This is a comprehensive landscape retrofit program
11:20:14 that engages the customers to use Florida friendly
11:20:19 landscaping, and then match their irrigation system
11:20:23 with that landscaping.
11:20:25 The first year is proposed to be a pilot program,
11:20:28 pilot effort that targets high irrigators.
11:20:32 Of course, outside the reclaimed water area.
11:20:35 The pilot program, if it demonstrates a significant
11:20:41 water savings, i.e., success, it will be available to
11:20:45 all qualified customers at that point.
11:20:49 Also, this program will replace the existing sensible
11:20:54 sprinkling program, which is funded in the FY 09
11:20:58 budget, so the good news is we will not need
11:21:01 additional funds to fund this program.
11:21:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I cut you off for a second and
11:21:08 speed it up?
11:21:09 The other question -- well, two questions.
11:21:11 One, where is the $200,000 coming from?
11:21:16 Is it our money or SWFWMD money?
11:21:18 >>> It's both.
11:21:19 It's 50-50.
11:21:21 50% switch mud, 50% City of Tampa.
11:21:23 >> Okay.
11:21:24 And secondly, I guess I was a little disappointed,
11:21:28 because if somebody wants to come in and do what we
11:21:31 used to call xeriscape a yard, let's say they decide,
11:21:37 they put in plants that don't require any irrigation.
11:21:42 It doesn't sound like they can qualify for this
11:21:43 program because we are only helping them with the cost
11:21:46 of the new drip irrigation system or what have you.
11:21:51 I think it has a good program, but I would love to see
11:21:54 if we can expand it a little bit to those folks who
11:21:57 basically say, I want to put in a yard that doesn't
11:21:59 require any irrigation.
11:22:04 >>BRAD BAIRD: That was one of the differences between
11:22:06 this program and sensible sprinkling, is that it does
11:22:09 reimburse for Florida friendly plants.
11:22:13 Well, for the landscaping change, I guess, for the
11:22:16 amount of turf that you are reducing.
11:22:19 >> I thought you said you are only reimbursed for the
11:22:22 cost of the new irrigation system.
11:22:24 >>> No.
11:22:25 That's what I was going to get into.
11:22:27 The rebate structure is two levels, or two tiers.
11:22:33 Tier one, because that's where the most gains are, the
11:22:36 customer makes only, when he makes only irrigation
11:22:40 changes, that will be the reimbursement.
11:22:44 For the irrigation system.
11:22:46 Tier 2 then is for the landscaping itself.
11:22:51 >> So under the system I just described, if somebody
11:22:54 is taking out an older irrigation system, doing
11:22:59 xeriscape, can did K they qualify for either 2002 or
11:23:04 >>> Sigh that again, I'm sorry.
11:23:06 >> Under the new yard, they are not putting in any
11:23:09 irrigation, they are just putting in a bunch of cactus
11:23:12 or something, you know, just as an example, but can
11:23:17 they still qualify for any part of this program?
11:23:22 >>> Well, in year two, I believe so, yes.
11:23:28 There will be other qualifications.
11:23:30 You need to pay your bills.
11:23:31 You need to have an irrigation system in place
11:23:33 So if you are moving from an irrigation system to no
11:23:37 irrigation system or drip irrigation system, then yes,
11:23:42 those are the types of customers that we will target.
11:23:44 >> Thank you.
11:23:49 Maybe you could report back a year from now and let us
11:23:51 know how the program is going.
11:23:52 >>> We would be happy to do that.
11:23:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
11:23:56 Item 83, okay.
11:24:04 >>KAREN PALUS: Good morning one more time.
11:24:05 I'm here to update you on item number 83 which is to
11:24:08 appear and provide the number of parks and recreation
11:24:14 facilities that have been closed and potential for
11:24:18 reopening Ballast Point park.
11:24:21 Ballast Point park is not closed on Saturdays, it's
11:24:25 open seven days a week.
11:24:28 The item is in question, I want to clarify that for
11:24:31 Just to share with you all, you remember back during
11:24:33 the budget reductions and such, and for fiscal year
11:24:37 2008, we provided some information about what we were
11:24:40 closing, what we were reducing.
11:24:42 Right now, the only two facilities that we have truly
11:24:45 closed in our overall 178 facilities around the City
11:24:49 of Tampa is the riverfront and Lopez schools.
11:24:54 Those are the only two facility officially closed in
11:24:56 the City of Tampa.
11:24:57 Things we have reduced or reallocated programming and
11:25:01 Those locations we did reallocate the staff and the
11:25:05 participants for the supervised playgrounds that were
11:25:07 very low attendance, and those facilities were like
11:25:13 the Boys and Girls Club, or mason's facility.
11:25:16 We have the park being serviced by Loretta Ingram
11:25:20 facility, Taylor serviced by Ingram as well, 18th
11:25:24 Avenue being serviced, and also Tampa parks plaza
11:25:30 being serviced by mason.
11:25:33 Four to five kids in those programs, sometimes ten
11:25:36 depending on the time period.
11:25:37 So we brought them into the fold of other facilities
11:25:40 and have a lot more resources, a lot more staff
11:25:42 available to them, to be able to provide -- gives them
11:25:48 a nice facility plus a small covered pavilion area.
11:25:51 So it's a much better situation for the children and
11:25:53 the staff that are participating there.
11:25:55 We also standardize our operations for weekends, for a
11:25:59 lot of our facilities to allow for more rentals, so
11:26:03 that is some of the changes.
11:26:04 And you haven't heard about A lot about that because
11:26:07 the public is able to get in, at times we have an open
11:26:10 gym period where it wasn't highly attended.
11:26:12 So we really tried to focus, and we were very
11:26:16 strategic about it, any impact to our citizens out
11:26:19 there as much as possible but focus on our facilities
11:26:22 when our apartments needed it the most and when they
11:26:25 were there the most so that's been our focus.
11:26:27 Situation as it is at Ballast Point, that's exactly
11:26:30 the same scenario, Saturday is a very attendance day
11:26:34 compared to the rest of the week.
11:26:35 There has been some suggestion to swap Saturday for a
11:26:39 Monday or Friday.
11:26:40 If you look at our attendance we average over the
11:26:43 course of the year maybe 40 to 50 people on a
11:26:45 During the rest of the week and Mondays and Fridays
11:26:48 especially we are averaging about 300 people.
11:26:50 If you look at the business practice of that, that was
11:26:52 our best decision.
11:26:53 Really we try to focus, Saturdays, go take a run, walk
11:27:00 and those kind of things.
11:27:02 When we looked at how that would impact the community
11:27:04 it was a minimal impact at that particular time for
11:27:07 that program.
11:27:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to compliment you on how you
11:27:12 have been so strategic in making as many facilities
11:27:16 available to people, with very difficult budget
11:27:22 You have been very create different and imaginative
11:27:24 and providing as much capacity as possible.
11:27:28 The specific request that I made, which got a little
11:27:31 mangled in the translation, was to find out what the
11:27:36 cost is of having Joe Abrahams open on Saturday,
11:27:40 because the private sector people who are wellness
11:27:43 advocates said they were willing to go out and try to
11:27:46 raise money to provide that opportunity for the
11:27:49 public, because they believe it's important.
11:27:54 So if you could provide it in a written form, and --
11:27:59 would it take you two weeks?
11:28:01 >>> I have that information for you.
11:28:02 >> If could you just share that with me, that would be
11:28:05 Because they said that they would be willing to raise
11:28:08 And through the vehicle, I know private sector people
11:28:12 do raise money for things that you are able to use it
11:28:15 for expanding arts and recreations program.
11:28:18 Thank you very much.
11:28:18 >>> Thank you.
11:28:20 I appreciate your time this morning.
11:28:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Other questions?
11:28:24 Item 88.
11:28:33 Get the major in and out.
11:28:34 Item 88.
11:28:38 >>> Irvin Lee, director of public works.
11:28:41 I wanted to -- the major and I are here in response to
11:28:47 your motion to appear to provide a report on the
11:28:51 intersection of Dale Mabry highway and San Carlos
11:28:54 street, adjacent to the campus of Plant High School.
11:28:57 You asked us to include whether the city school board
11:29:00 or FDOT had any options for implementing additional
11:29:03 safety measures.
11:29:06 In addition you had asked to report on the average
11:29:09 speed at that intersection.
11:29:10 Thanks to some support from the FDOT, operations
11:29:15 staff, they did a speed study there at that
11:29:19 And I guess I'll start with the easy answer first.
11:29:23 They did a speed study and the speed at which 85% of
11:29:27 the vehicles are at or below the speed, this
11:29:33 particular speed limit was 42 miles per hour.
11:29:35 The speed limit at that intersection is 40 miles per
11:29:38 So only two miles above the posted speed limit.
11:29:43 And the average speed, though, the average speed is 38
11:29:47 miles an hour.
11:29:47 So that's again both legs northbound and southbound at
11:29:50 that particular intersection.
11:29:52 Now, in the aftermath of the accident, in the
11:29:56 aftermath of the accident, where a student was struck
11:29:59 trying to cross the street, the City of Tampa --
11:30:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Which one?
11:30:05 >>> The second one which occurred in August.
11:30:07 The second accident.
11:30:10 Tampa, Hillsborough County, FDOT, TPD, we all got
11:30:14 together to discuss the measures that could be
11:30:16 implemented to increase the safety of students
11:30:18 crossing Dale Mabry.
11:30:21 We decided to initiate a formal process called road
11:30:23 safety audit.
11:30:24 This is where we basically bring in an independent
11:30:28 multi-disciplinary team to review and document all of
11:30:32 the safety concerns from all of the users, both
11:30:35 pedestrian and motor vehicle operators, in that
11:30:38 particular area, to improve safety.
11:30:40 The plant high school administration was involved.
11:30:43 Hillsborough County traffic services.
11:30:45 I mentioned City of Tampa both TPD and our
11:30:48 transportation division.
11:30:49 D.O.T. district 7, Hart, and we have two contractors.
11:30:53 URS corporation and the TED group, and they both had
11:30:58 specific assigned responsibilities as part of it.
11:31:00 But it was organized into two parts.
11:31:04 Main campus which is led by FDOT, and the contractor
11:31:08 was TDE group, and all of the perimeter roads
11:31:12 surrounding the campus and Hillsborough County led
11:31:16 that portion of the audit.
11:31:19 The members on the audit teams were encouraged to look
11:31:21 at not only the pedestrian environment, pedestrian
11:31:26 facilities, both the sidewalk, the height of tree
11:31:29 limbs, branches, obstructions in the area, the type of
11:31:34 walking surface, but also the traffic characteristics
11:31:37 and nature of the traffic, a.m. and p.m. times,
11:31:44 traffic control devices that exhibited in the area,
11:31:47 and also the behavior of the pedestrians and the
11:31:49 drivers in both, again, the perimeter area, and the
11:31:55 main campus.
11:31:57 Perimeter roads were considered west Palmyra Avenue,
11:32:01 and I can give you a diagram here.
11:32:09 This is San Carlos.
11:32:15 You can see the main campus.
11:32:17 You have Palmyra on the south, Himes on the east, or
11:32:30 it will be to my right, San Miguel to the north of the
11:32:34 campus there, and obviously Dale Mabry on the left.
11:32:39 There is a draft safety audit report that I think has
11:32:44 been completed by the contractors.
11:32:46 There are a number of issues.
11:32:47 There's nothing again at this point that we consider
11:32:56 urgent or that's life threatening, but as soon as the
11:33:01 audit is completed we can ensure that copies are
11:33:03 provided to you.
11:33:08 Major, do you have anything to add?
11:33:09 >>> If you have any questions I'll be happy to try to
11:33:12 answer them at this time.
11:33:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, ma'am, Mr. Chairman.
11:33:18 And thank you, Mr. Lee.
11:33:20 I didn't know if TPD officer, did you have anything
11:33:25 you wanted to add?
11:33:27 Thank you.
11:33:30 We talk about two incidents.
11:33:33 And I don't want to be overly dramatic but the first
11:33:36 incident involved ultimately involved a fatality.
11:33:40 A young girl got hit.
11:33:43 She lingered for about two years, and family, she and
11:33:47 her family suffered and then recently she's gone.
11:33:53 And then we had the second one.
11:33:58 In government, we do studies and that sort of thing.
11:34:00 And I know there's process and procedure for
11:34:03 But do we currently have any kind of flashing light
11:34:06 out there on Dale Mabry to notify the public there's a
11:34:16 lot of public that goes by that realizes there's a
11:34:18 school but then there's trucks and other things that
11:34:21 go flying by there at high speeds.
11:34:24 You know, they could care less.
11:34:27 Anyway, is there any flashing lights or anything out
11:34:29 there to notify the traffic?
11:34:33 >>> Again, what he's done at that particular
11:34:36 intersection is you have the most restricted form of
11:34:38 traffic control.
11:34:39 There is an actual light there that stops --
11:34:42 >> I understand.
11:34:43 But I'm talking about the flashing light that perhaps
11:34:46 might, A, notify the traffic, the school children have
11:34:51 let out, and -- let me finish here -- that the school
11:34:56 children have let out, and this is a time they need to
11:34:58 be cautious, or perhaps even better that we would
11:35:02 just, you know, slow it down completely, regardless of
11:35:05 the traffic light, slow it down completely to a
11:35:08 reasonable speed, maybe 15 or 20 miles per hour,
11:35:11 during that -- during those periods in the morning and
11:35:14 in the afternoon when the children are letting out.
11:35:17 You can talk about a traffic light all you want.
11:35:19 But you remember when you were in high school, and I
11:35:22 know when I was in high school, even though it's been
11:35:24 a long time for both of us, and we watch these
11:35:26 children, and they get silly, and they get stupid, and
11:35:30 they start doing silly and stupid things.
11:35:32 And they go, oh, my friend just ran across the street
11:35:35 to Steak and Shake, I want to catch up with them.
11:35:40 Then you end up with tragedy because those cars are
11:35:42 going very fast there.
11:35:44 So I guess the intent of my motion was -- and I
11:35:48 appreciate you all doing the study, okay, and it
11:35:51 sounds like -- I'm not sure where the study is going
11:35:53 to take us.
11:35:54 But the intent is, why can't we just do something a
11:35:57 little more and a little extra, because we know that's
11:35:59 a dangerous place?
11:36:04 And the D.O.T. isn't here in this discussion?
11:36:12 I know D.O.T. controls Dale Mabry.
11:36:14 >>> They are not here, but I will tell you again the
11:36:16 transportation professional whose manage not only the
11:36:19 traffic at this intersection and other schools in the
11:36:22 area have looked at this, and the situation that
11:36:25 occurred was outside of normal school time --
11:36:32 >>I don't think the first one was.
11:36:34 I think the first one was after school had let out.
11:36:37 >>> I'm referring to the one on August 25th.
11:36:39 >> Okay.
11:36:40 Well there, were two of them in the last couple of
11:36:44 >>> Again, when you bring traffic to a stop, a
11:36:48 complete stop, and during the period of time where --
11:36:54 that the highest number of students are crossing, TPD
11:36:56 has an officer there to actually control the
11:37:03 And I'm not trying to be argumentative.
11:37:05 I'm just trying to give you examples, that we are
11:37:07 doing everything that we believe is prudent to provide
11:37:11 a safe not only pedestrian environment but vehicular
11:37:14 environment for folks who transit that intersection.
11:37:21 >> Would it be safer if we slowed traffic down along
11:37:23 there to 15 or 20 miles per hour during school
11:37:26 crossing times?
11:37:29 In addition to having the stoplight?
11:37:30 It just seems to me that's a logical, common sense
11:37:33 thing, that it would be safer.
11:37:34 Can we do it?
11:37:35 >>> We can, but it's not necessary.
11:37:37 >> That didn't answer the question.
11:37:40 It would be safer if we did it?
11:37:41 >>> I don't believe it would be any safer than what we
11:37:43 have today.
11:37:46 And I would love to -- if you like, we can demonstrate
11:37:50 that to you.
11:37:51 But we can let the professionals come in and share
11:37:55 with you the information, the historical data,
11:37:59 regarding how again the behavior of the folks who are
11:38:05 part of the motoring public.
11:38:07 We did the speed study.
11:38:08 We indicated that the speed is at or about the speed
11:38:15 And again, the most restrictive form of controlling
11:38:19 the traffic is to bring them to a complete --
11:38:21 >> I'm not trying to be argumentive but it's beyond
11:38:24 comprehension to say if you get the traffic to slow
11:38:26 down to 15 or 20 miles per hour when those children
11:38:28 are present, that it wouldn't be safer.
11:38:30 That was just beyond comprehension.
11:38:32 >>> We can bring them down to 15 or 20 miles per hour
11:38:35 but we still bring them to a stop.
11:38:37 >> And bring it to a stop when we need to.
11:38:39 >> But once you bring them to a stop --
11:38:41 >> Of course that would be safest.
11:38:43 But it obviously isn't doing the complete job.
11:38:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Miranda.
11:38:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Just last night I stopped by the
11:38:52 location there.
11:38:52 I am not going to mention the name because I don't
11:38:54 give out commercials.
11:38:55 >> But you want add milk shake.
11:38:59 >>> But I want add milk shake for my wife.
11:39:03 But I couldn't get it being a diabetic.
11:39:05 I got a milk shake and came out.
11:39:07 And I have some of my grandkids going to that same
11:39:10 location at plant.
11:39:11 And everyone is right here.
11:39:13 And also everyone is wrong.
11:39:15 You look at -- is it Lois Avenue by Dale Mabry
11:39:21 You have got a flashing sign that tells you the speed
11:39:23 that you are going.
11:39:25 If you go down the Bayshore you have got one heading
11:39:28 south, one heading north that tells you the speed that
11:39:30 you are going.
11:39:30 I don't see that at that intersection.
11:39:33 I think what we are trying to say is, an additional
11:39:38 something to catch the eye to put it on the mind of
11:39:40 whoever is on the cell phone or combing their hair --
11:39:43 not that I would comb my hair -- or things of that
11:39:46 nature, that would come up to make one more little
11:39:50 thing to get that one cell brain that we carry with us
11:39:53 to say, hey, this is a little -- a location where I
11:39:57 have got to slow down.
11:39:58 We blame the motorists in most cases.
11:40:00 And that young lady who had that fatality, her
11:40:05 grandfather and I are very close friends.
11:40:09 I think we ought to put one facing the school that
11:40:12 tells the students to be very careful when they are
11:40:14 crossing that street.
11:40:15 I really believe that.
11:40:16 I don't think it's all the traffic.
11:40:18 I think it's a combination of traffic and young
11:40:20 people, like Mr. Dingfelder said, wanting to do
11:40:24 And there's nothing wrong with going across the
11:40:27 In fact, one time I was disciplined for crossing a
11:40:30 street when I was in high school because they said I
11:40:34 was prohibited from leaving the school grounds so they
11:40:36 gave me a three-day suspension.
11:40:41 So I know what it is to cross streets.
11:40:43 It's very dangerous.
11:40:45 I don't care if you are going 10 miles per hour.
11:40:47 You are crossing in front of a car that's going 10,
11:40:49 and that time is right there, they are going to get a
11:40:53 And the car never loses with a human being.
11:40:57 It's ironic that we are bringing this up.
11:41:00 It's hard to understand why somebody has to have the
11:41:06 losing of their life and their family.
11:41:08 That's a lifeline -- life-long something that you
11:41:13 carry with you for the remainder of your life, the
11:41:16 whole family.
11:41:17 So I would like to see something done to put a
11:41:19 blinking light or something that will generate in the
11:41:21 mind of a driver to be saying, you know, I have got to
11:41:25 be more careful, or drive carefully or something.
11:41:27 We have got these signs all over the expressway to
11:41:30 tell you there's an exit 14 miles ahead, which I like.
11:41:35 It saves your mind from thinking when you get there,
11:41:38 where am I at?
11:41:39 And I think maybe we should put something there,
11:41:42 dangerous school zone, oh slow down, something.
11:41:44 And I think that will alert the mind.
11:41:47 It's just my thought.
11:41:48 And I think that can be accomplished by the Department
11:41:50 of Transportation, the school board, Hillsborough
11:41:53 County, and the City of Tampa getting together, and
11:41:56 working it out.
11:41:58 But that's just my feeling.
11:42:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions, council?
11:42:04 We have about ten items left, staff reports.
11:42:06 And we have 1:30 items.
11:42:13 And then we have a public hearing tonight.
11:42:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll just make a motion on this
11:42:18 item, if I could, Mr. Chairman.
11:42:20 You have got a road safety audit.
11:42:21 The first I heard of it even though it's my district,
11:42:27 When that ought to be done and the conclusions and
11:42:30 recommendations be available?
11:42:33 >>> The final report is in coordination right now and
11:42:35 I hope to have it done by the end of this month.
11:42:37 We will get a copy to you.
11:42:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like a report back from you
11:42:41 on the report and the recommendation in February.
11:42:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:42:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let's say first meeting in
11:42:49 Thank you.
11:42:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
11:42:51 (Motion carried)
11:42:53 Item 79.
11:43:02 >>> Tanya Brickhouse, director of solid waste.
11:43:07 Good morning, Mr. Chairman, council members.
11:43:09 I brought my little visual aid with me because
11:43:11 everything that I am carrying in the right hand is
11:43:14 something recycled, of recycled material.
11:43:18 I want to drive home the point.
11:43:20 I'm here because you asked me to appear and give an
11:43:22 update on how the city is doing on recycling,
11:43:25 submitting a report hopefully everyone has gotten and
11:43:28 had an opportunity to review that report.
11:43:30 So I'm going to try for the interest of time not to go
11:43:33 through everything.
11:43:35 First I want to talk about as we looked at residential
11:43:39 Before I even resay that, the recycling and going
11:43:42 groan and all of those things are so important to the
11:43:45 generations that we have yet to come.
11:43:47 It's important to us now, but it's important that we
11:43:51 leave a legacy for generations to come.
11:43:53 Some of the things that I want to share today relate
11:43:56 to the recycling rate from the standpoint of
11:43:59 Residential was looking at about a 35% recycling rate
11:44:04 across the city.
11:44:05 Now, a big disparity, the recycling participation
11:44:09 rate, 70% in South Tampa and as low as 6% in East
11:44:14 If you look at the report you will see some things we
11:44:16 are doing to try to address those disparities.
11:44:21 From the standpoint of tonnage in fiscal year 2008, we
11:44:26 diverted about 23,600 tons, just under 24,000 tons
11:44:31 from the wastestream.
11:44:33 I would also like to comment that one of the things
11:44:36 that we have done, we have done a recycling grant.
11:44:44 We did a number of things, collecting data.
11:44:47 That report, the analysis of the data, and the
11:44:52 qualitative data has not been completed yet.
11:44:54 I expect that to be done in January of 2009.
11:44:57 So that would give us some more information to see how
11:45:01 we attack and address disparities in the residential
11:45:04 recycling rates.
11:45:05 A couple of things that we did in 2008 in terms of
11:45:09 expanding the program, first and foremost we added
11:45:13 MacDill Air Force Base.
11:45:14 Secondly, in July, we did the expansion of the
11:45:17 curbside recycling program.
11:45:21 We launched and expanded what we would accept.
11:45:25 One of the big things in July is directed at the fact
11:45:28 that you can commingle, so we can put everything, and
11:45:32 also the fact that we expanded and take pretty much
11:45:36 anything except something that has a lot of wax on it,
11:45:39 or pretty much anything.
11:45:40 We have got a new brochure that's out regarding
11:45:44 residential recycling.
11:45:45 We get it off the web site.
11:45:47 We have also been distributing it in town hall
11:45:50 meetings and neighborhood association meetings, and
11:45:52 various conferences, and any venue that we have been
11:45:58 asked to be present at or we decided we needed so that
11:46:02 recycling brochure is doing a lot in terms of getting
11:46:06 information out to customers, as recently as, I want
11:46:10 to say, three weeks ago, we distributed about 1400 of
11:46:13 them, just in one neighborhood association.
11:46:15 So the word is out, through us and also through
11:46:22 Shannon Edge of the neighborhood association office
11:46:25 that we have a lot more information on residential
11:46:27 recycling, and also on the curbside expansion.
11:46:31 I want to also address you to recycling.
11:46:35 Right now we are at about a 43% participation rate
11:46:40 from a residential customer standpoint.
11:46:42 That comes out to be about 40,000 homes in the city.
11:46:48 The goal by 2010 to do 100% of the city as it relates
11:46:52 to yard waste.
11:46:53 That goal will be attained and is intended to going
11:46:59 fully automated and coincides with us going fully
11:47:02 automated in 2010.
11:47:03 What that does is when we go to full automation, then
11:47:07 we will then be able to redirect those resources to
11:47:10 support yard waste.
11:47:12 And then there are other things, but I wanted to make
11:47:14 sure that I cover this.
11:47:15 I see the light going yellow.
11:47:17 I want to make sure that I specifically cover the
11:47:20 stuff as it relates to Hillsborough County schools.
11:47:24 Currently we have 32 schools that's public and private
11:47:30 participating in the city recycling program.
11:47:34 18 or 26% of those schools, the public schools, in the
11:47:38 city are participating.
11:47:41 We have been really aggressive in meeting with members
11:47:44 of the school district to get the school district
11:47:49 program going at a faster rate.
11:47:52 Many schools are interested.
11:47:54 The schools' participation is dependent on school
11:48:00 approval so we go in.
11:48:04 I want to mention what we are offering for the
11:48:06 Right now we give at no charge, 30 blue boxes, once a
11:48:10 week pickup of paper and commingled, and any classroom
11:48:13 recycling presentations.
11:48:15 So the education and outreach effort is definitely
11:48:20 One of the things I want to emphasize today is we go,
11:48:23 we have recycled America today.
11:48:26 And that's this month, November 15th.
11:48:29 I do want to pull out a couple of things.
11:48:33 The children in fact, we recycled a T-shirt made of
11:48:38 recycled material, our children in the district have
11:48:40 designed that, and in addition to that pay attention,
11:48:42 if you happen to venture to McDonald's restaurants,
11:48:46 you will also see the 165,000, to coincide with
11:48:55 America recycles today.
11:48:57 As well as this little Mack card that they made.
11:49:01 A lot of other information that I wanted to share, not
11:49:04 enough time, but I do want to say that on the online
11:49:08 pledge for recycling, close to 10,000 people have gone
11:49:12 online and filled out the pledge to say that they will
11:49:16 So that's some good news.
11:49:18 Not enough time to go into all the stuff that we are
11:49:20 doing as it relates to recycling but a lot of energy
11:49:23 and a lot more energy is being directed to commercial
11:49:27 multifamily family, or those other sectors as well.
11:49:30 I hope the report was detailed enough to kind of give
11:49:33 you a flavor of what we are doing in all the other
11:49:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:49:36 Any questions?
11:49:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The tonnage that you spoke to,
11:49:45 24,000-tons, is that residential recycling?
11:49:49 >>> Residential.
11:49:50 >> And that's 2007 or 2008?
11:49:53 >>> Fiscal year 2008 data.
11:49:56 So 2007-2008.
11:49:58 >> And how would that compare to prior years?
11:50:01 Are we moving up tremendously?
11:50:03 Are we moving up gradually?
11:50:05 >>> I will tell you that we are moving up, but
11:50:08 unfortunately the data collection prior to, I don't
11:50:12 like giving anything but facts so I can't stand on how
11:50:15 much that increase has been.
11:50:17 I will tell you that especially since we have done
11:50:19 curbside, recycling expansion, that we have seen an
11:50:24 I'm trying to get those numbers, and I hope the next
11:50:26 time I'll give you an update that I will be able to
11:50:29 give you some substantial data on that.
11:50:30 Commercial recycling, we did about 889-tons of
11:50:36 cardboard, just to give you an idea what we are doing
11:50:39 with commercial, and we are doing some things, with
11:50:42 small businesses in Ybor City.
11:50:43 There are a number of things that are going on.
11:50:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We don't have much time, council.
11:50:51 We have five minutes.
11:50:51 >> I don't know why we do these reports if we can't
11:50:55 ask questions.
11:50:56 I'll ask one more.
11:50:57 Do we have a specific goal?
11:50:58 We are all goal oriented.
11:51:00 Like we have done 24,000 fiscal year 07-08.
11:51:04 Next year our goal is --
11:51:08 >>> Let me give you a percentage.
11:51:10 When the house bill was passed, the goal was to go 75%
11:51:13 statewide, with the recycling effort.
11:51:16 Right now we are at 35%.
11:51:19 Given 2010 I would hope that we would be at 60%.
11:51:23 When we get to 2015 based on projections that I have
11:51:26 in terms of the whole effort that we are doing, 2015,
11:51:32 we probably will be at 75%.
11:51:35 So we have got a few years out before we are at the
11:51:39 75% target, statewide target.
11:51:41 >> The sad part is your whole report is 3% in East
11:51:45 >>> 6%.
11:51:46 >> 6% in East Tampa participation compared to 65% or
11:51:51 something like that, 70% in South Tampa.
11:51:54 We shouldn't have that kind of disparity.
11:51:56 So we need to fix that.
11:51:57 >>> And we are using the grant to really focus on
11:52:00 working in those areas, to get the disparity down.
11:52:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:52:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:52:08 Thank you, Ms. Brickhouse.
11:52:11 Item 80.
11:52:18 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Assistant city attorney.
11:52:19 Item 80 is the item that comes up on a periodic basis,
11:52:24 in fact should be coming up on a quarterly basis.
11:52:27 As you will recall, about seven, eight weeks ago, Mr.
11:52:31 Fletcher, the city attorney, addressed many of the
11:52:34 items on here with regard to the outstanding liens and
11:52:41 the number of properties in foreclosure.
11:52:43 About three weeks ago, Mr. Slater came and spoke to
11:52:45 you, answered a lot of these same questions, plus some
11:52:50 added questions.
11:52:52 And there's really been no significant changes in the
11:52:55 last few weeks for me to really report on.
11:52:58 What I can tell you, at least to help you out here, is
11:53:01 in the last three months, August through October, the
11:53:04 city has collected $157,782 in code enforcement board
11:53:14 and special assessment liens.
11:53:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?
11:53:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Real quick.
11:53:22 Does the money go into the general fund or does it go
11:53:24 to fund more staff?
11:53:26 Maul mule it's my understanding going into the general
11:53:34 >>MARY MULHERN: How much did you say you collected
11:53:36 within the last three months?
11:53:38 >>ERNEST MUELLER: August --
11:53:42 >> Can you give us a comparison of, say, a year ago?
11:53:45 >>> Yes, I can give you that.
11:53:49 The number for the last past three months is $157,782.
11:53:55 And 53 cents.
11:53:59 Let me do it this way.
11:54:10 I don't have it broken down to three months.
11:54:13 I can give you three months individually.
11:54:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:54:16 >>ERNEST MUELLER: This August our total was 54,894.
11:54:20 That's August 2008.
11:54:22 August 2007 we had 46,553.
11:54:27 Hold on a second.
11:54:36 What I gave you was October 2007.
11:54:42 It was 46 compared to October 2008 which was 72,000
11:54:49 this year.
11:54:50 All right.
11:54:51 I do not have the numbers readily handily for the
11:54:56 August 2007 and September of 2007.
11:54:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: When you come back in another
11:55:03 quarter give us that comparison.
11:55:04 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
11:55:05 That's very impressive for October.
11:55:07 >>> Yes, it was good.
11:55:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 81.
11:55:24 >>DENNIS FERNANDEZ: Historic preservation manager.
11:55:26 A brief update on the creation of the CRA
11:55:29 stabilization trust fund.
11:55:31 We have been working, the historic preservation has
11:55:34 been working with economic development on establishing
11:55:36 the parameters of the fund, remodeling it directly
11:55:40 after the interstate historic preservation trust fund.
11:55:43 We are very close to having documents finalized.
11:55:46 We say that we should be able to kick this off by the
11:55:51 beginning of 09 to have the formal application process
11:55:54 reviewed going on, and we would need some time to just
11:55:59 let the downtown property owners know that the fund is
11:56:03 available for them.
11:56:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:56:07 I know you have already got a system, you have got a
11:56:10 We need to get this going.
11:56:11 We have buildings that are really unstable like the
11:56:13 Jackson house, like St. Paul AME church.
11:56:17 We need to talk to the people directly now and say,
11:56:20 please think about this, because we don't want to lose
11:56:22 >>> And we have been doing outreach right now.
11:56:25 What I was referring to is that you do need time to
11:56:29 allow the applicants to complete the paperwork and get
11:56:32 it back to the staff so we can evaluate it.
11:56:34 So that would be the deadline that I am talking about
11:56:36 in early 2009.
11:56:39 We would author the program, the paperwork and
11:56:43 everything before then.
11:56:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Other questions?
11:56:45 Item 82.
11:56:47 Are you doing that one as well?
11:56:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And the union depot.
11:56:52 >>DENNIS FERNANDEZ: Historic preservation manager,
11:56:54 here with John Barrios.
11:56:57 Just as a continuation of my earlier report to you, we
11:57:01 did submit a memo to council outlining the advances
11:57:05 that we have made in the issue of embedding the
11:57:08 historic preservation inspector into the certificate
11:57:11 of occupancy process.
11:57:13 That has been initiated.
11:57:15 We do have the historic preservation inspector engaged
11:57:19 within the inspection process, and there are holds
11:57:24 that are put on projects within the historic projects
11:57:26 or those related to local landmark structures which
11:57:29 requires that the historic preservation office does
11:57:31 sign off on those particular holds before a
11:57:35 certificate of occupancy is granted to the property.
11:57:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:57:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?
11:57:43 Item 86.
11:57:53 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department. If I could clarify
11:57:54 that in the motion, you asked me to discuss monument
11:57:59 I'm assuming you meant signs.
11:58:01 My discussion will relate to signs.
11:58:03 What I understand the issue to be in this case is
11:58:06 there was a request by the Tampa Chamber of Commerce
11:58:10 to place signage within that area on private property.
11:58:16 I'm indicating that it's West Tampa but that signage
11:58:21 would also contain a sponsorship or other commercial
11:58:25 type of statement indicating who pays for the sign.
11:58:28 In looking at your sign code, the city sign code --
11:58:32 and you probably heard me say things like this before
11:58:35 but the way the sign code has been set up is you have
11:58:38 a distinction in your code between on-site and off
11:58:40 site signage, and for the most part it's prohibited so
11:58:48 in order for this kind of signage to be allowed, with
11:58:51 this commercial indication, either it has to be on a
11:58:55 parcel of property which the sponsorship is the person
11:58:59 or the entity on the property through advertising
11:59:03 something which is occurring on the property, or it
11:59:06 would be considered illegal off-site signage not
11:59:12 allowed in our code.
11:59:14 And we went through a process very recently with where
11:59:17 we updated the sign code and I had the opportunity to
11:59:19 look at a lot of sign codes, and I will also tell you
11:59:21 the distinction on the on-site off-site sign is
11:59:25 something that alike of sign codes did in the 80s
11:59:27 and 90s.
11:59:28 It was pretty much what you did with your sign code.
11:59:30 The more modern sign codes have actually gotten rid of
11:59:34 some of those distinctions and there are good legal
11:59:36 reasons why you might think about doing that, but as a
11:59:39 general matter of becomes a question of taking a look
11:59:41 at what the sign says, and making a decision as to
11:59:44 whether or not it's allowed, versus a parcel by
11:59:48 parcel, this is the allowable signage on each parcel,
11:59:52 and what you put on it isn't really the city's concern
11:59:55 with the exception of anything that's something, that
12:00:02 any governmental entity has the right to regulate.
12:00:04 So in order to accommodate this request, you really
12:00:07 would need to look at your sign code as a whole.
12:00:10 It's not something that we can grant exception for.
12:00:12 And it is really rethinking your sign code and whether
12:00:15 or not you want to start getting rid of some of these
12:00:18 distinctions between on-site and off-site signage.
12:00:21 It's something that would take some time because it
12:00:23 would be a fairly substantial rewrite of your code.
12:00:26 Off lot of exceptions in your sign code for different
12:00:28 kinds of signage.
12:00:29 It would indicate that.
12:00:31 But in a sense I have already started the work because
12:00:33 when we already looked at it as part of the larger
12:00:35 sign issue.
12:00:36 And if that's something that City Council wants to
12:00:39 undertake, I would need a motion from you.
12:00:42 Please note it not going to happen tomorrow, but it is
12:00:45 something that we can look at.
12:00:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Cole, how many requests like
12:00:50 this have we had?
12:00:54 >>JULIA COLE: You know, I haven't received too many of
12:00:56 them, but it does come up from time to time.
12:00:58 It's an issue that comes up with public art wanting to
12:01:00 have some kind of sponsorship of public art.
12:01:03 It's something that comes up every once in a while.
12:01:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: As you well know I am not too much
12:01:08 in favor of any signs, including the one that is we
12:01:10 put on our rights-of-way at the poles and the little
12:01:16 flag sign or whatever you want to call them that are
12:01:18 about two feet by four feet.
12:01:21 But I'm not opposed to listening.
12:01:23 But I'm very fickle about changing any sign ordinance.
12:01:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the issue came about from the
12:01:30 West Tampa chamber.
12:01:31 They want to put these monument signs as people head
12:01:35 into West Tampa, and sponsored by, donated by.
12:01:40 It's my understanding that the code prohibits that now
12:01:43 on private property.
12:01:43 >>> That's correct.
12:01:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Which is quite interesting.
12:01:46 The other thing I understand from my discussion with
12:01:49 Mr. Fletcher is the City of Tampa is the only one that
12:01:52 still has this in their code.
12:01:54 >>> Really jurisdictions have really moved to sign
12:01:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We are saying we are the next great
12:02:00 Yet we have an outdated antiquated code that all other
12:02:06 municipalities have gotten rid of.
12:02:07 >>> That's why you are the next great city.
12:02:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
12:02:13 I just found it quite interesting that on private
12:02:15 parrot, and you can -- if I want to put up a little
12:02:18 monument, that I cannot put on there, sponsored by or
12:02:22 donated by.
12:02:25 It goes against the code.
12:02:26 And we are the only municipality in the State of
12:02:29 Florida that still has this.
12:02:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It is my experience getting changes
12:02:35 to our sign ordinance takes forever.
12:02:38 However, I would like to make a motion that we direct
12:02:40 you to look at, and the other soon codes, that this
12:02:47 request gets into look at how we address -- to allow
12:02:53 this sort of situation to be legal.
12:02:54 >>> And if I can just clarify.
12:02:56 What you are talking about is within the sign code,
12:02:58 looking at the distinction between on-site and
12:03:01 off-site sign as it relates to what one would
12:03:04 generally think of as an on-site sign, not the bigger
12:03:12 >>: That would be my motion.
12:03:13 >> Second.
12:03:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
12:03:19 All right.
12:03:21 It is now 12:00.
12:03:23 What's the pleasure?
12:03:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move we deal with the rest of the
12:03:29 things while our staff is here.
12:03:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Those issues?
12:03:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
12:03:35 Specifically Mr. Daignault and Mr. Vaughan who came
12:03:38 I had an opportunity to talk with them about Kiley.
12:03:40 They were reassuring to me in private.
12:03:42 I would like to make those public that we will have
12:03:48 >>> David Vaughan, contract administration here on
12:03:50 item 25 and the questions, as I understand the two
12:03:52 questions were that there's concern that the work
12:03:54 that's being done now is compromising the ability to
12:03:58 replace vertical elements also known as trees in the
12:04:01 finished product, or as funds allow, and, two, that
12:04:06 there is some material that it's thought to be salvage
12:04:11 but is in fact not being taken care of.
12:04:14 At the beginning of this project we committed to you
12:04:15 that we would design and do this work in a manner
12:04:18 that, one, a loud us to replace trees where there were
12:04:21 trees before, and that, two, we would salvage and take
12:04:24 care of all of those things that were able to be
12:04:27 salvaged, but that we thought there was upwards of a
12:04:29 third of the material that was up there that was
12:04:31 damaged beyond that.
12:04:33 For both of the items that you are concerned about,
12:04:35 I'm here to tell you that we are doing what we said we
12:04:38 were going to do, and that where you had trees before
12:04:40 you, you will be able to have trees again.
12:04:44 And on top of that you will have a drainage system
12:04:48 that actually works.
12:04:49 The material that has been pointed out is not
12:04:54 salvageable and has been pulled aside to be recycled.
12:04:58 The material that is salvageable has been carefully
12:05:00 removed, cleaned, palletized, and is being watched
12:05:07 very carefully to make sure it's safe.
12:05:09 In addition to this because we are serious about these
12:05:11 items and we are serious about the assertion that we
12:05:14 are not doing what we are supposed to be doing, we
12:05:16 have asked the landscape architect of record to
12:05:19 provide us with a written report verifying that what I
12:05:22 have told you is accurate, so that we have
12:05:24 documentation of that, and we would certainly be happy
12:05:27 to share that with you.
12:05:29 In closing would encourage you to proceed with item
12:05:34 >>MARY MULHERN: My question, I think I need a little
12:05:37 more specific reassurance about what Linda had
12:05:42 mentioned about the amount of cement that's being put
12:05:47 into the areas where the crepe Myrtles were removed.
12:05:55 >>> That T amount that is being put in will still
12:05:57 allow for the material, the original material to be
12:06:01 placed there.
12:06:02 And we have asked in this report and documentation not
12:06:06 only to confirm that trees can go back in there but
12:06:09 that trees as originally designed can go back where
12:06:12 they were before.
12:06:13 >> So you can put crepe Myrtle back there.
12:06:18 >>> If there were crepe Myrtle there before -- yes.
12:06:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for that clarification.
12:06:32 What I would like to do is, this renovation of Kiley
12:06:37 is not going to address putting in new trees.
12:06:39 It going to deal with the irrigation issues and the
12:06:43 parking structure.
12:06:45 I'm very pleased, and I thank you so much, Mr.
12:06:49 Vaughan, for promising we are going to get back the
12:06:51 cement detailing that was part of the park.
12:06:53 We are going to get the sod back.
12:06:55 There's no money in our budget to get the trees back.
12:06:59 I would like to ask the administration to figure out
12:07:02 what the cost of replacing the trees would be, and if
12:07:07 you could provide that to council, then in our
12:07:09 creativity, as we see items come across our agenda,
12:07:13 and as we la for additional sources of revenue, we can
12:07:16 figure out where to find the money to replace the
12:07:18 Because it something that's such a critical part of
12:07:23 the successful design of the park.
12:07:25 I know we don't have the money now.
12:07:27 But now that we have had the change from the
12:07:28 limitations on how we spend CRA dollars, so that we
12:07:33 can spend additional CRA dollars to bring back
12:07:36 downtown, we would like to be able to look at
12:07:40 reinstallation of the vertical elements or the tree.
12:07:44 >>MARY MULHERN: I had another question log at that.
12:07:47 As far as the ground cover or sod or whatever that
12:07:52 was, we did have some discussion about that way back
12:07:55 when, when we were trying to rescue the park, about
12:08:01 that was the appropriate type -- in the same way that
12:08:05 we talked about, the crepe Myrtle, planted originally,
12:08:10 but also about whether the -- whatever irrigation,
12:08:16 drainage you are putting in there, whether that's the
12:08:20 proper kind of ground cover that was going in the
12:08:23 green square.
12:08:26 That would grow and could survive at the level that we
12:08:29 are able to irrigate.
12:08:32 >>> And the answer to that question is yes.
12:08:34 I don't recall off the top of my head what the strain
12:08:37 of grass is that we are putting back in there.
12:08:39 But we did have that discussion.
12:08:42 And the material, at that time we told you we were
12:08:46 >> And who is the landscape architecture?
12:08:51 >>> It's Reynold, Smith and hills.
12:08:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion 5 and 25.
12:08:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move item 25.
12:09:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor.
12:09:02 (Motion carried).
12:09:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move in 60 days we
12:09:05 get a report back on what the cost is for the vertical
12:09:07 element would be, probably with respect to the
12:09:12 appropriate crepe Myrtle.
12:09:15 >> Second.
12:09:15 >> Seconded Pi councilman Dingfelder.
12:09:17 (Motion carried)
12:09:19 We are going to have to come back after lunch on the
12:09:21 rest of these items.
12:09:26 >>> Can we do item 91?
12:09:32 On item 91.
12:09:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Come to the mike.
12:09:36 Come to the mike.
12:09:37 Come to the mike.
12:09:38 >>> I'll be very brief.
12:09:40 >> But you already spoke.
12:09:41 >> I spoke in the three minute thing.
12:09:43 I didn't know it was on the agenda till after you told
12:09:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
12:09:49 Let Mr. Fletcher come and address that.
12:09:51 We won't take any comment but -- because my
12:09:53 understanding, this is state law.
12:09:55 So he can come and address that so you understand.
12:10:02 He's going to give a report and then we have to
12:10:05 adjourn because we have appointments.
12:10:07 Thank you.
12:10:07 >>> Thank you, council.
12:10:10 I submitted a written report as requested by council
12:10:14 earlier this week.
12:10:15 Essentially, there is a state law that governs these
12:10:18 neighborhood electric vehicles.
12:10:21 It establishes certain safety parameters.
12:10:23 It also establishes that they are to be operated only
12:10:26 on streets that have a posted speed limit at 35 miles
12:10:31 per hour and below except for crossing those streets.
12:10:35 I checked with Tampa Police Department.
12:10:38 We have not had reports of incidents that are specific
12:10:41 to these types of vehicles.
12:10:43 And in terms of the appropriate types of regulation,
12:10:47 if I were to be advising you on what to put in a code,
12:10:50 I would focus on the same issues that are already in
12:10:52 the state statutes.
12:10:53 So while you do have the ability to regulate those,
12:10:56 absent some specific safety issues, that was not
12:11:01 brought to my attention, my view is that the state
12:11:04 statute addresses the core issues that I would see as
12:11:07 appropriate for regulation.
12:11:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:11:12 It's regulated by state.
12:11:14 And anything done would have to fall within the state
12:11:17 regulations so we are already governed by state.
12:11:25 >>> If I may, Mr. Chairman, the implementation would
12:11:28 be as with any traffic, the statute would be
12:11:30 implemented by code -- I'm sorry, by law enforcement
12:11:34 through a citation process, or traffic ticket.
12:11:36 And that is how TPD would be enforcing it.
12:11:42 We are not aware of any particular incidents, like I
12:11:44 said, where this has come up.
12:11:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:11:48 Which item?
12:11:49 The item that you all are here on?
12:11:56 That's at the end of the day.
12:11:57 Just public comment you are talking about.
12:11:59 That would be the end of the day.
12:12:04 Are you looking for a particular item?
12:12:07 All right.
12:12:08 Then we stand in recess until 1:30.
12:12:10 Tampa City Council
13:34:30 1:30 p.m. session
13:35:36 [Sounding gavel]
13:35:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council is now reconvened,
13:35:42 will come to order.
13:35:42 Roll call.
13:35:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
13:35:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:35:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
13:35:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
13:35:49 Okay, we need to pick up with item 89.
13:35:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to continue number 8.
13:35:56 Did he would do that?
13:35:58 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
13:36:01 This is in response to a request by City Council to
13:36:03 report back on our a poll process from appeals from
13:36:07 our different boards that come to City Council and
13:36:09 what some of our options are in terms of having them
13:36:12 come directly to City Council, having the appeal come
13:36:15 directly to City Council versus whether or not they
13:36:17 can go to circuit court.
13:36:19 I have had the opportunity to do the research on this
13:36:21 issue and I have also looked at other jurisdictions.
13:36:24 And there aren't many jurisdictions that do not have
13:36:28 the appeal of the lower board coming to the City
13:36:31 Some jurisdictions go to a hearing officer.
13:36:33 Some jurisdictions it does go directly to circuit
13:36:36 From my research it is something legally you have the
13:36:39 right to amend your code to provide that level of an
13:36:43 And I have looked at our code as well to see how hard
13:36:47 or easy it would be to make that change, if that was
13:36:50 something that City Council wanted me to move forward
13:36:52 with, and that wouldn't be a problem.
13:36:55 Your code is set up in such a way that it wouldn't be
13:36:57 a difficult amendment, but I will tell you that it is
13:36:59 something that if City Council wants to do, it is
13:37:02 something that would not need to go back to the
13:37:04 Planning Commission because it's only a procedural
13:37:07 matter and there is a exception for special procedure
13:37:12 items so if that is City Council's wish for to us be
13:37:15 able to move forward with and something you need to
13:37:18 Also in looking -- this is a good opportunity for me
13:37:21 to look at our code.
13:37:22 It has been awhile, I think, since a lot of these have
13:37:26 been looked at.
13:37:27 We have had a lot of difficult appeal hearings come to
13:37:30 So it's a timely question.
13:37:32 And I will tell you that the way our code is written,
13:37:34 there are some legal issues.
13:37:37 There's some nagging legal issues out there.
13:37:39 And I think there's a good opportunity for us to
13:37:41 re-review that and maybe clean up those nagging legal
13:37:45 I think you have an appeal hearing in front of you, it
13:37:49 seems hard, it seems cumbersome, and you are not alone
13:37:52 in that.
13:37:53 In fact a lot of jurisdictions have moved away from
13:37:55 this process and go to circuit court because they are
13:37:59 very complicated and difficult issues for aboard, a
13:38:03 legislative body to deal with.
13:38:04 So all of that being said, if this is something City
13:38:07 Council wants to pursue, my suggestion would be to
13:38:10 direct the legal department to bring some changes back
13:38:12 to you so that you can have further discussion with
13:38:15 changes in front of you, allow citizens to participate
13:38:18 in that process, and we can go ahead and you can then
13:38:21 make some decisions as to what kind of changes you
13:38:24 want to make, how you want to make the changes.
13:38:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda, Miller, and
13:38:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The reason I brought this is up is
13:38:35 for the same reason that Ms. Cole alluded to.
13:38:39 It's a lot of legal interpretation.
13:38:44 You can't visit the site, so to speak.
13:38:49 You can't have anything that wasn't said in the prior
13:38:56 You can't do things.
13:38:58 And the payment that they are paying some of these
13:39:01 good attorneys to come here, it's the same amount of
13:39:05 it that take it to court.
13:39:07 No one comes here for free, in a way, and it shouldn't
13:39:10 be for free.
13:39:11 But what I'm saying is that I have a feeling that to
13:39:18 grasp this thing is going to take a presentation to
13:39:22 bring to this council by yourself to see what changes
13:39:25 can be made to proceed to the next level without
13:39:29 coming to this level.
13:39:30 And it not because it's cumbersome, and it not because
13:39:33 it's more work, it's because sometimes we are in a
13:39:39 position of not being lawyers, these things become --
13:39:45 you have got to set the record and create the record
13:39:47 and make sure that record is protected, and it becomes
13:39:50 much more difficult for us to do it than it was being
13:39:53 handled by professional, and that profession is like
13:39:57 going to a doctor who is not a surgeon and asking that
13:40:01 individual to take your appendix out.
13:40:03 It doesn't work too well.
13:40:06 Usually send you to a surgeon.
13:40:08 In order to get the best and pro care, you need the
13:40:13 right individuals who do that type of work.
13:40:15 For that reason only, I would like to ask our
13:40:17 colleagues if they feel the same way I do so we can
13:40:21 proceed to send this to a change of venue to go to the
13:40:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miller, Saul-Sena.
13:40:30 >>GWEN MILLER: I wanted to ask make a motion that we
13:40:36 ask legal to go for other things back to us, how we
13:40:39 need to put it in chapter 27, and see if we can --
13:40:48 have a legal hearing officer?
13:40:51 >>JULIA COLE: From what I understood from the motion
13:40:53 was that the appeal hearing go directly to circuit
13:40:55 court and they would have the same standard that you
13:40:58 all are applying now, it would be the judicial
13:41:00 >>GWEN MILLER: That's my motion then.
13:41:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
13:41:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Ms. Cole.
13:41:09 I think that -- I don't understand this broadly
13:41:15 enough, so I think that the motion is appropriate, but
13:41:18 I think rather than it coming back to regular City
13:41:22 Council day when our time is more constrained, I would
13:41:24 like to put this on our workshop agenda so that we can
13:41:29 have a presentation from you and hear from the public
13:41:32 and discuss it among ourselves and have enough time to
13:41:35 do that adequately.
13:41:44 So January?
13:41:48 >> When is our retreat?
13:41:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: One week from this coming Tuesday,
13:41:52 November 18th.
13:41:52 >> Is there a specific agenda or is it just kind of
13:41:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Right now it's loose.
13:42:03 I have had the opportunity to meet with the
13:42:04 facilitator the day before yesterday, discussing the
13:42:07 She does have a path that she wishes to have, to make
13:42:10 it productive.
13:42:11 >> I remember last year we addressed some substantive
13:42:14 issues like this in terms of procedure and changed
13:42:17 some procedures.
13:42:18 I think this would be a great topic for the retreat.
13:42:20 And really we can have a very loose and still public
13:42:24 discussion, because anybody is allowed to come to our
13:42:26 retreat if they so desire.
13:42:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Clarification.
13:42:32 Not retreat but strategic planning session.
13:42:35 >> Right.
13:42:35 So we can strategically plan about this strategic
13:42:45 >>MARY MULHERN: I think, Mr. Miranda, you put this on
13:42:47 the agenda for today to discuss -- well, I'm in total
13:42:58 support of doing that.
13:42:58 I think it's a good idea.
13:43:01 And have discussions with the attorneys about this
13:43:04 probably since I first started, and I think for all
13:43:07 the reasons that Mr. Miranda suggested, I think it
13:43:13 removes a lot of political pressure, and it puts these
13:43:17 appeal decisions into professional hands, and I'm
13:43:21 totally in favor of it.
13:43:23 So either way, I would be happy to just go through
13:43:29 that, you know, our strategic planning session or at a
13:43:33 council meeting or a discussion group.
13:43:35 But I'm fairly well convinced.
13:43:39 I just wanted to share that.
13:43:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It sounds like a change of heart.
13:43:43 Remember, I brought this before City Council moving to
13:43:46 this format and there was an outcry to cut my head
13:43:50 >> I didn't.
13:43:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We didn't succeed, did we?
13:43:57 >> No, you wanted to take me out and hang me up by my
13:44:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't want to hang you up by your
13:44:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
13:44:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think that I would be happy to --
13:44:16 if Julia thinks she can get us information by our
13:44:22 strategic planning meeting.
13:44:23 I just want to make sure we have time to discuss other
13:44:26 And I personally made a couple of recommendations of
13:44:28 other things that I would like to discuss.
13:44:31 I think we are all going to make suggestions.
13:44:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: As a matter of fact I am going to be
13:44:37 providing you with the e-mail address and the phone
13:44:39 number if you wish to contact her directly or have her
13:44:42 contact you directly, and I will have that to you
13:44:45 probably by tonight.
13:44:46 The other thing is just a reminder, council, that the
13:44:50 strategic planning meeting this year is only three
13:44:52 hours long.
13:44:53 It is not a full day.
13:44:54 So we have a lot to accomplish within those three
13:44:58 My suggestion would be that it would be appropriate to
13:45:01 discuss it then.
13:45:02 But if it's the consensus of council today to at least
13:45:05 have the staff to move forward in some fashion, either
13:45:10 that or it can be brought back after the special
13:45:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, my suggestion would be it
13:45:14 depends on that you could take this, have the city
13:45:19 attorney to go and bring back a recommendation and
13:45:21 workshop it at one of our future meetings.
13:45:26 I don't know.
13:45:27 >>JULIA COLE: I guess I just want some clarification.
13:45:31 Would it be council's intent then for me to bring some
13:45:34 language back to them for them to -- to discuss at
13:45:37 your strategic planning meeting?
13:45:39 I don't think I was planning on attending that
13:45:42 I could make myself available, absolutely, if that was
13:45:44 going to be a point of discussion.
13:45:46 Or what I thought you were going to potentially do is
13:45:52 prepare language and bring it back to you, just so you
13:45:54 have it in front of you for purposes of the workshop.
13:45:56 Or if you all just want more information.
13:45:59 I can do it either way.
13:46:00 I guess I just need to have some direction on that
13:46:02 particular --
13:46:04 Well, I'm saying this for the public to have input,
13:46:08 and I would rather not have input at a strategic
13:46:15 It supposed to be for us to be able to low at
13:46:18 substantive issues and talk among ourselves and not
13:46:20 for the for the public to have input at that time.
13:46:23 So my suggestion would be a move-forward language and
13:46:28 bring back a recommendation to us, and we just have a
13:46:32 one-hour workshop.
13:46:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Our January workshop.
13:46:36 >>JULIA COLE: In all fairness that would give me
13:46:39 enough time to pull language together.
13:46:41 I could do it, it would just be a little harder to
13:46:44 pull together in a week to have it with enough time
13:46:47 for to you think about it.
13:46:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I'm fine, I didn't realize our
13:46:51 planning session was only a half day so if we do it at
13:46:54 workshop, that's fine.
13:46:55 But somebody mentioned that the public's input on
13:46:57 this -- and I don't know if this has been presented to
13:47:00 T.H.A.N., or to any other public organization that
13:47:05 care about our processes.
13:47:08 At all.
13:47:08 Marty, do you know?
13:47:10 Has T.H.A.N. taken this up?
13:47:11 Do you know?
13:47:12 >>> I haven't gotten anything ready.
13:47:14 I wanted --
13:47:15 >> I guess --
13:47:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: There's been no consensus of council
13:47:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My point is this is a policy
13:47:27 Do we need to see formal language?
13:47:31 Does it have to be formalized as compared to just
13:47:35 Because the attorneys have a lot to do on their plate.
13:47:38 So I would say we should go through the conceptual
13:47:41 process before we burden Julia with coming up with all
13:47:44 of the crossed T's and dotted I's.
13:47:53 I want a conceptual document to say this is the
13:47:56 process for VRB, here is how you see it, conceptually.
13:48:00 Then we can take that out to the community, workshop
13:48:02 it here, and then if there's four votes, move forward
13:48:07 with the more formalized language.
13:48:09 >>GWEN MILLER: That was my motion to go back and bring
13:48:12 it to us, let us know what we have to do.
13:48:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But the question is -- that's where
13:48:16 I was confused, Gwen.
13:48:18 I apologize.
13:48:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, that's the motion.
13:48:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is it loose or formal?
13:48:23 >>GWEN MILLER: She's going to go back and see Wan we
13:48:25 need to do, how it should be done, how to put in the
13:48:28 chapter 27.
13:48:29 This is my motion.
13:48:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: you don't want her to address all
13:48:33 the line by line --
13:48:35 >>GWEN MILLER: No.
13:48:37 She's going back and seeing, because we don't No. we
13:48:40 are just talking now.
13:48:41 But she's going to bring us something back that we can
13:48:43 see and go further.
13:48:44 >>JULIA COLE: The only thing I will say on that,
13:48:48 having been here several years and seeing how the
13:48:51 ordinances work, that it is helpful to people --
13:48:55 sometimes we can bring forward conceptual ideas.
13:48:58 And it sounds great on paper.
13:48:59 And then, you know, the rubber hits the road and you
13:49:02 see the language and you are like, whoa, that isn't
13:49:05 what I meant at all.
13:49:06 And this is such an important issue that I am willing
13:49:08 to commit to actually necessarily having formalized
13:49:12 language but taking our code provisions and talking
13:49:14 about how they would have to be changed as part of the
13:49:17 generalized, this is what it would look like, because
13:49:20 it does tend to be complicated.
13:49:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, we need to move.
13:49:23 >>GWEN MILLER: I'll put my motion back on the floor.
13:49:25 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to add one thing to what
13:49:29 Councilwoman Miller suggested, and also in a broad
13:49:33 framework to make a case for, or your recommendations
13:49:39 in relation to what other municipalities do, you know,
13:49:44 in Florida, and so that we are not just saying, you
13:49:48 know, I want to do this or I don't.
13:49:51 Look at what standard practices are.
13:49:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You can go right across the street.
13:50:01 >>MARY MULHERN: I didn't want to hang you up.
13:50:03 I supported you.
13:50:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: One other critical piece
13:50:07 information is how in the course of a calendar year,
13:50:10 looking back a year, how many of these appeals do we
13:50:14 actually hear as a City Council?
13:50:16 I think that's important information.
13:50:22 That could be part of what you bring back to us.
13:50:24 I think we should do this in the workshop in January.
13:50:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we put this on.
13:50:29 >>> January 6th workshop?
13:50:35 >>GWEN MILLER: How long will it take, Ms. Cole?
13:50:38 >>JULIA COLE: Did you want me to bring back the
13:50:40 information backup for the workshop, or bring back
13:50:43 information written to you before workshop?
13:50:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, so we can see what we are doing
13:50:49 before we present to the somebody else.
13:50:50 We don't see it.
13:50:52 Then we can do the workshop.
13:50:54 We need to know how we are doing it.
13:50:56 Just bring something for us.
13:50:58 >>JULIA COLE: So maybe a written report.
13:51:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Right.
13:51:01 >>> Kind of outline what the changes will be if we
13:51:03 were to move forward or the potential changes would
13:51:06 be, outlying line what other jurisdictions do.
13:51:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Correct.
13:51:10 >>JULIA COLE: The outlining, whatever doing that
13:51:13 research it's probably going to take me several weeks
13:51:15 to be able to pull that together.
13:51:18 At the January workshop would be fine, the time would
13:51:21 be an adequate amount of time for me to pull all that
13:51:24 stuff together.
13:51:26 9 all right.
13:51:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion on the floor, moved
13:51:28 and seconded.
13:51:30 Pretty much going to get all the information, a
13:51:32 written report.
13:51:32 That does not include a workshop.
13:51:34 So the motion by Councilwoman Miller, seconded by
13:51:37 councilman Miranda.
13:51:38 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
13:51:41 >>> When do you want the written report back?
13:51:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It will be before workshop.
13:51:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Did you say about three weeks?
13:51:51 >>JULIA COLE: If we are going to have a workshop in
13:51:56 January, why don't you give me about three weeks to a
13:51:58 month to be able to pull everything together and that
13:52:00 would give you that report a month prior.
13:52:03 >>GWEN MILLER: December 18th.
13:52:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: December 18th.
13:52:08 Thank you.
13:52:10 We need to go back to 87.
13:52:14 I don't think we dealt with number 87.
13:52:18 That's you again, Ms. Cole.
13:52:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Continue to November 20th.
13:52:24 >> Second.
13:52:25 (Motion carried)
13:52:37 Item 90.
13:52:37 Received a report from Ms. Miller.
13:52:39 You can receive and file.
13:52:40 >> Move to receive and file.
13:52:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a comment on it.
13:52:43 What this report indicates is that we have a
13:52:45 disconnect in the city between Cindy Miller's
13:52:48 department which is the charge of land rezoning when
13:52:50 people apply for permits for rezoning, they send to
13:52:53 the neighborhood organization, and Shannon Edge who is
13:52:57 the neighborhood coordinator who knows whether they
13:53:01 are actually active neighborhood organizations, but
13:53:05 the people in Mrs. Miller's department are telling
13:53:09 them to contact.
13:53:10 So Julia, as the city attorney is here with us -- how
13:53:18 do we at council, who is very concerned that the right
13:53:21 neighborhood gets notified when there is a rezoning or
13:53:24 a petition for alcoholic beverage, how do we make
13:53:27 sure, how do we get the administration to make sure
13:53:31 that the right information is given the petitioner to
13:53:36 contact the neighborhood organization?
13:53:38 Because for two years, Shannon Edge has known there
13:53:41 wasn't a neighborhood organization in the Channel
13:53:42 District, but somehow that never got communicated to
13:53:45 the permitting people who were giving people the name
13:53:48 of an organization and a person who is no longer the
13:53:51 organization's president.
13:53:54 That's the issue.
13:53:59 >>JULIA COLE: Legally your code provides that you have
13:54:01 to provide notice to the officially registered
13:54:03 neighborhood association where Shannon Edge -- but it
13:54:07 really becomes more of a communication problem.
13:54:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: None of the -- if the
13:54:11 administrative communicative problem where Shannon
13:54:15 Edge is the department and Cindy Miller, and the
13:54:19 information isn't being shared.
13:54:21 What can we do as a council to encourage that that be
13:54:23 handled more efficiently?
13:54:26 >>JULIA COLE: I will tell you from my experience I
13:54:27 know they work as best that they can and I know
13:54:30 unfortunately Shannon Edge's group has lost some
13:54:32 people, and you have zoning folks that are constantly
13:54:35 running around.
13:54:36 And so you maybe just make a request for those
13:54:40 departments to provide how they share that information
13:54:44 today and give you that provisional information, so
13:54:46 that you can see what's happening and see if there's
13:54:50 any opportunity for changes from that perspective.
13:54:52 >> The good news is we have computers.
13:54:55 It seems like we have a list of neighborhoods.
13:54:57 It seems like it's administratively accomplishable.
13:55:01 >>JULIA COLE: And in my time being here, I have seen
13:55:04 situations where hiccups have occurred, I have seen
13:55:06 them a lot less, and I think maybe take some of the
13:55:11 kinks out of the process, but I think that I would
13:55:17 need the request to have information shared that
13:55:21 reported to you so that you can see what the process
13:55:24 is, and maybe identify if there's any problems or --
13:55:32 >> A report back in 30 days on administrative process
13:55:35 to encourage monthly communication between Shannon
13:55:40 Edge's department and Cindy Miller's department to
13:55:43 ensure that petitioners are given correct information
13:55:46 about who to contact and which neighborhood
13:55:48 organization, and because Shannon Edge has lost so
13:55:52 many staff people that she doesn't have the
13:55:55 wherewithal to do this, and Ms. Miller's department
13:55:59 help her, because it so important for the zoning
13:56:01 process we contact the appropriate person in the
13:56:04 appropriate organization.
13:56:05 And we get a report back in 30 days on how this is
13:56:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to say, point out
13:56:15 especially to the public and to the neighborhood
13:56:18 groups, that there is, I think, a monthly newsletter
13:56:23 from the neighborhood services department that lists
13:56:26 all the rezonings, and also says what neighborhood
13:56:29 they are happening in.
13:56:30 So there is a way for them to look that up.
13:56:37 You know, if you are someone who wants to know what's
13:56:40 happening, and you are not on her list, I think you
13:56:44 can just contact her and let her know you want to be
13:56:47 on the list to see what all the rezonings are.
13:56:52 I don't remember what it's called.
13:56:53 >>> The Land Development Coordination department, they
13:56:55 do send out a monthly newsletter.
13:56:57 I believe to all the presidents of all the
13:56:59 neighborhood associations indicating the upcoming
13:57:02 >>MARY MULHERN: Maybe that needs to be accessible
13:57:07 Maybe it already S.but if they can just put that up
13:57:09 online so people can look up.
13:57:12 It is?
13:57:14 Already available.
13:57:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Good.
13:57:15 So my motion is we get it back in 30 days on how the
13:57:18 information is being updated.
13:57:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Would a written report suffice?
13:57:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A written report would be fine.
13:57:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
13:57:27 As we look at this about participation and
13:57:30 notification as it relates to the Channelside
13:57:31 district, and there's some miscommunication somewhere,
13:57:35 we have failed to address who is the association in
13:57:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: There is none right now.
13:57:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Then who are they going to notify?
13:57:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: They could notify the CRA advisory
13:57:50 committee maybe.
13:57:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't know if the law is set up
13:57:53 that way.
13:57:53 That's why I ask the question.
13:57:54 There's a certain criteria that has to be followed and
13:57:57 if there is no association, who do you notify?
13:58:01 >>JULIA COLE: The way the code reads in terms of
13:58:03 notice -- you have to be very specific with the notice
13:58:06 requirements because it will cause something out of
13:58:09 order if it's not done correctly in terms of having
13:58:11 that appropriate notice.
13:58:12 It is the officially registered neighborhood
13:58:14 association, I think within 250 feet of the parcel
13:58:20 And you know the officially registered neighborhood
13:58:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And you will notice in Mrs.
13:58:31 Miller's report they are having a meeting on the
13:58:34 18th to see if they can't revive the organization.
13:58:38 Could somebody second my motion?
13:58:41 My motion is we get a report back in 30 days on how to
13:58:44 better communicate.
13:58:45 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
13:58:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a friendly add-on to that,
13:58:50 or I can make a separate motion.
13:58:52 My friendly amendment to that might be that next time
13:58:56 we modify chapter 27, we would also say neighborhood
13:59:01 association's on Shannon's list -- that's what it
13:59:05 already says -- and any CRA advisory board, you know,
13:59:12 and any CRA advisory board.
13:59:14 You know, for that district or what have you.
13:59:17 Whatever the parameter is.
13:59:18 You know, and frankly I think it a good idea.
13:59:22 Because let's say Drew Park.
13:59:23 Let's get away from Channelside.
13:59:25 But let's say Drew Park.
13:59:26 You know, maybe Drew Park doesn't have a neighborhood
13:59:29 But Lord knows, the Drew Park advisory board is very
13:59:32 active and they should be notified of rezonings in the
13:59:34 drew park area.
13:59:35 So that's just one exam.
13:59:39 So we can direct staff to include that in the chapter
13:59:42 27 amendments.
13:59:43 >>GWEN MILLER: You accept that?
13:59:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
13:59:50 (Motion carried)
13:59:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's take the appeals here and take
14:00:03 staff reports after our appeal hearings so we can get
14:00:05 these poem out of here.
14:00:07 Item 93.
14:00:08 We need to open public hearings, swear people in.
14:00:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Open 93, Mr. Chairman.
14:00:14 >> Second.
14:00:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 94.
14:00:21 And 95, Mr. Chairman.
14:00:23 >> If you are going to be speaking to council on these
14:00:26 items, please stand.
14:00:29 (Oath administered by Clerk)
14:00:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, we can get to number 94, but
14:00:43 that's a motion to continue in that case.
14:00:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
14:00:46 Going in order here.
14:00:47 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.
14:00:51 C 08-09 is a petition to vacate an alleyway that's
14:00:54 generally located in East Tampa, near Sligh and the
14:00:58 I do have an overhead photograph here.
14:01:02 The petitioner's property is in red and the alley is
14:01:04 outlined in yellow.
14:01:06 And the alleyway lies between 33rd and 34th
14:01:10 street and runs from Pocahontas to Knollwood.
14:01:15 I have some pictures.
14:01:17 This is a photo of the alleyway looking north from
14:01:19 Knollwood street.
14:01:26 It's unimproved.
14:01:27 This is a photo of the alleyway looking south on
14:01:29 Pocahontas Avenue.
14:01:33 And this is the petitioner's property at the northwest
14:01:38 corner of knollwood and 34th street.
14:01:40 And here is just one more graphic of the alleyway
14:01:47 And the petitioner's property is here.
14:02:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Those part of the alley there?
14:02:04 >>> Is that your driveway?
14:02:08 There's the driveway.
14:02:11 This is the alleyway on the north side.
14:02:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: On the north side.
14:02:15 Where is it from the south side?
14:02:21 Looking from the south it looks like it's used a
14:02:23 little more.
14:02:27 I don't know, it gets confusing.
14:02:29 That's looking from the north to the south.
14:02:31 And it's used a little more.
14:02:34 The alleyway is used a little less.
14:02:36 >>> Yes.
14:02:37 It's unimproved.
14:02:38 And basically, staff has no objections to this request
14:02:42 and no easements are required.
14:02:44 Before he guts up to talk we received a letter from
14:02:50 one of the abutting owners located here.
14:02:55 And he had some concerns about this.
14:02:58 And I had a couple of the letter and our responses to
14:03:02 her, and I'll explain this a little bit.
14:03:13 Mrs. Buckner was concerned not so much about access,
14:03:16 because she indicated that she didn't use the alley,
14:03:18 but she thought there was a wastewater pipe in the
14:03:21 alley that was still in use, and she had some concerns
14:03:23 about the cost to her property tax, you know, if this
14:03:29 is vacated and added to her land value.
14:03:33 I did not personally contact the property appraiser's
14:03:36 office but Hiram, did and he found out the additional
14:03:41 tax would be about $10 and then the wastewater issue,
14:03:45 I have a gentleman from the wastewater department to
14:03:47 talk about that.
14:03:47 Apparently there was a private pipe in that alley that
14:03:51 was used before the city lines were installed, and
14:03:53 there are a couple of owners that are still on that
14:03:55 line and can talk to that.
14:03:59 But I did ask her to respond FHP she's still objecting
14:04:06 and planning to attend the public hearing.
14:04:08 I don't believe she's here today.
14:04:10 She never contacted me back.
14:04:12 But we have a gentleman from wastewater that can
14:04:14 explain the pipe situation and also the petitioner is
14:04:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: One other quick question.
14:04:22 The lots two, three, six and seven will become
14:04:24 isolated in regard to the rear yards.
14:04:29 Do we have any pictures or anything of their rear
14:04:34 yards in terms of any -- the way the garage is or any
14:04:39 indication that they have used?
14:04:40 >>> I don't have any pictures of those.
14:04:42 We didn't go down that driveway but Melanie Calloway
14:04:45 generally goes out and checks for access and she had
14:04:48 no objection from transportation planning and then I
14:04:50 think Hiram has a few more pictures.
14:04:52 >> Pictures of those inside neighbors?
14:04:54 >>> And just a little more information about this
14:04:57 At the time that Hiram came and submitted his
14:04:59 application, he had tried to get all the neighborhood
14:05:03 to join in on the petition, and he gave me
14:05:06 applications from all of the owners.
14:05:08 Unfortunately, they weren't notarized so I couldn't
14:05:10 accept them as part of the packet.
14:05:12 So he pretty much had neighborhood support on all the
14:05:15 abutting owners.
14:05:16 And at the time of the actual application I do have
14:05:19 one from this owner, but apparently she changed her
14:05:22 mind based on some of the issues in that letter.
14:05:24 >> And Ms. Calloway?
14:05:31 Did you walk down that weedy alley?
14:05:35 >>> Yes, I did go down that alley because I had to see
14:05:39 the condition before I wrote my comments.
14:05:41 >> Who is using it there?
14:05:44 >>> That is the petitioner's property.
14:05:47 Right here.
14:05:48 But he's really the only one.
14:05:50 The rest of them had fences.
14:05:52 >> He's the only one using it?
14:05:53 >>> yes.
14:05:54 He was using it to access his property.
14:05:57 Only one lot.
14:05:58 I go out there top see not only -- but it looks like
14:06:02 there was vehicular traffic on the alleys but also if
14:06:05 there's any type of way for the vehicles to go into.
14:06:11 This is his property.
14:06:14 He was using it during the construction.
14:06:21 This is the back of his house.
14:06:23 He seemed to be doing some renovations in here.
14:06:36 You can see it's pretty much overgrown for the rest of
14:06:38 >> How about the alleys to the north and to the south?
14:06:42 Are they being used at all?
14:06:44 >>> I don't have a picture but I do have an aerial.
14:06:48 I usually just look at what was actually --
14:06:52 >> Well, Jimmy always showed us the adjacent grid and
14:07:01 It was previously abandoned.
14:07:07 >>> The one to the south was abandoned.
14:07:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
14:07:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Other questions?
14:07:17 >>> My name is Hiram Jones and I'm the petitioner to
14:07:26 close the alleyway off.
14:07:39 Pocahontas and knollwood.
14:07:42 People come and dump trash, and I'm usually the one
14:07:46 that gets cited for cleaning this up.
14:07:49 None of our other neighbors do.
14:07:51 So I decided to close this off because it's not being
14:08:04 That's Mrs. Pervis property where a tree fell on her
14:08:07 house and she was accessing this to have the tree
14:08:09 removed and redo her home.
14:08:11 It has been completed.
14:08:17 You have one picture there.
14:08:20 This is the picture right here.
14:08:29 That is right here to here.
14:08:33 The Buckners property which he accessed over here on
14:08:37 this side, all the way off the picture, to get to his
14:08:43 By his drive.
14:08:45 But everything else is just grown up.
14:08:49 And it not being used.
14:08:52 Property owners that had the pipe in the alleyway.
14:09:06 If anything happened to their pipe the two that run
14:09:09 into the alleyway that they would have to connect
14:09:12 total city because they are private-owned pipes that
14:09:14 run through there, and it's only two.
14:09:16 Everyone else is hooked to the city except these two
14:09:21 I have a letter here from each one of them stating
14:09:24 that they understand the conditions of this alleyway
14:09:29 being closed.
14:09:31 And they signed off that they would be responsible for
14:09:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here wish to address council?
14:09:41 Anyone else wish to address council on this issue?
14:09:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
14:09:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
14:09:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question for staff.
14:09:54 I'm just reading off the correspondence.
14:09:59 The last e-mail from Sandra Bucklen says the sewer
14:10:08 pipe in the alley is still in use, plus homeowners are
14:10:11 using sewer pipes failure to heed city advice that
14:10:17 they must reconnect.
14:10:22 So here's what I don't understand.
14:10:24 Who are the homeowners that are using the sewer pipe?
14:10:29 Is that you?
14:10:31 >>> No, that is Richard Robinson and Freddy Flucca,
14:10:41 the guy behind me on the lot --
14:10:46 Freddy Flucca is on lot four and Richard on lot three.
14:11:01 Those are the only two.
14:11:02 >> And which are your lots?
14:11:03 >> I'm -- this picture back here is lot seven.
14:11:08 >> The people behind the alley and kitty corner.
14:11:13 So this is really a question for staff.
14:11:20 Even though the city doesn't own the sewer pipe, if we
14:11:24 vacate this, then we may be -- I'm not clear that we
14:11:32 aren't affecting the other residents who live --
14:11:39 >> Tim is here from wastewater.
14:11:40 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, Tim, I read your response to
14:11:44 this, but I'm not clear.
14:11:46 If you could maybe explain.
14:11:50 Explain to me how there is no impact to the Bucklen.
14:11:57 And if there is, you know, we may not own the sewer
14:12:01 pipe, but we are allowing the vacation, if we vote to
14:12:05 allow this.
14:12:06 So we still might be affecting these other residents.
14:12:09 >>> Tim ware, Watt wastewater department.
14:12:12 You are correct, there is a possible impact.
14:12:16 What I am putting down here now kind of shows you what
14:12:20 sewer pipes we have in the area that we knew about.
14:12:22 This pipe came out of the blue to us.
14:12:24 We didn't know it existed.
14:12:25 It was built, as we understand, back in 1960 to only
14:12:31 service the, we have 6603, lots 3 and 4.
14:12:47 We know they are still in service.
14:12:49 We have been in contact with them.
14:12:51 We are writing letters again. This issue had
14:12:52 originally come up in '82 with these residents and I
14:12:55 have been able to find correspondence where we
14:12:57 instructed them at that time that they had to get off
14:13:00 this alley line that we built here and we provided a
14:13:04 service model to each one of those properties for them
14:13:06 to connect onto.
14:13:07 We told them at that time they needed to disconnect
14:13:09 from the alley line, to connect to the loin out on
14:13:12 33rd street, and we are going to give them time to
14:13:15 do so.
14:13:16 At this point it seems the residents have not done so.
14:13:20 We are trying to follow up with them again to use that
14:13:22 new connection.
14:13:25 >> But it's not the residents who are requesting the
14:13:31 vacation to reconnect?
14:13:33 >>> No.
14:13:33 Her house was built in '79.
14:13:35 The pipe in front of her house was built in 79.
14:13:38 She has a connection to it.
14:13:39 Only thing that may impact her is where that line in
14:13:41 the alley is.
14:13:42 And that we don't know because we have no records of
14:13:45 We have nothing that shows where it is physically
14:13:48 It may abut the property owner's property, the folks
14:13:52 on 33rd street, may abut their property.
14:13:54 Maybe in the center of the -- I have no records to
14:14:00 show where it was.
14:14:01 >>MARY MULHERN: So it may be an inconvenience to
14:14:06 her -- I still don't see how it will affect her.
14:14:12 >>> It cannot back up into her house F.the sewer were
14:14:14 to clog or fail, she is in no way connected to it.
14:14:18 It may be that the ground settles behind her house
14:14:21 eight inches because at most that would be the size of
14:14:23 the pipe.
14:14:24 Beyond that, it has no direct impact from a sewer flow
14:14:30 >> This is interesting to me because we had to do this
14:14:32 at our house recently.
14:14:34 >>> There were several --
14:14:35 >> Years ago the city told us, we thought fine,
14:14:40 operating a sewer line in our backyard but we had to
14:14:43 pay to get reconnected to the city's line.
14:14:46 And it was an inconvenience for us.
14:14:50 But I don't think it affected any of our neighbors.
14:14:52 >>> No.
14:14:54 And aside from the pipe being in the alley there is no
14:14:56 direct impact to her location.
14:14:58 And I offered to go out there and correspond and meet
14:15:01 with her and discuss it with her, and I haven't heard
14:15:03 anything back from her.
14:15:04 >> Thanks.
14:15:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question for you.
14:15:09 I understand you want to vacate the alley behind your
14:15:12 But do you care what happens north of you?
14:15:18 >>> Do I care?
14:15:19 >> Yes.
14:15:19 >>> Yes, my mother lives right next door to me.
14:15:24 And she lives right on the side of my mom.
14:15:26 So everyone that would be affected by this alleyway
14:15:29 being closed -- simply because Richard wants it
14:15:36 Richard's house has been broke into twice.
14:15:39 So I have reports from --
14:15:43 >> So you would prefer that the entire alley is
14:15:46 >>> That entire alley.
14:15:48 >> Thank you.
14:15:49 Because I could see you were directly impacted by just
14:15:52 a portion of it.
14:15:53 But because of your dealings, your relationships with
14:15:57 neighbors and mom and everybody, would you like the
14:15:59 entire thing closed.
14:16:00 >>> Well, it would stop people from going through back
14:16:03 and forth through the alleyway, and give access to the
14:16:08 people working, it gives access to their backyard.
14:16:11 And I'm talking about with the overgrowth and
14:16:16 What happens is that kids that go through there and
14:16:20 they case your house.
14:16:23 Generally I would just rather have it closed where I
14:16:26 have to maintain it.
14:16:27 I have to maintain my mama's area.
14:16:32 Which I don't mind.
14:16:33 But to have it just dead space for no use whatsoever,
14:16:40 I don't see any reason that it shouldn't be.
14:16:43 With everybody in agreement on closing it.
14:16:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda and councilman
14:16:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Sometime in the late '70s there
14:16:53 was a rather large number of city dwellers that had
14:16:57 either/or or no sewer connection or water connection,
14:17:01 and I believe I know we passed a water, you have to
14:17:04 have city water so many years, and I'm almost sure we
14:17:07 did something about the sewer.
14:17:10 And people were given time to hook up.
14:17:15 This pipe in the back is not going to affect anyone.
14:17:19 First of all, it's not a city pipe.
14:17:22 If I read the report correctly.
14:17:23 And it was certainly be an enhancement to anybody, the
14:17:27 future value of your retail of that home to say I'm
14:17:32 connected to city sewer and city water.
14:17:36 If you are connected to only one and not the other,
14:17:39 that value to me would be a detriment to the selling
14:17:46 That's just my feeling.
14:17:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
14:17:55 Enjoying council today?
14:18:01 You made an interesting comment before, I'm not sure
14:18:04 if I agree completely, it has no impact on Mrs.
14:18:08 What parcel is she, 2, 7, 6?
14:18:12 >>> She is the northwest parcel, 8.
14:18:17 >> Because you just said, you don't know where that
14:18:19 sewer line S.we are about to give each of those
14:18:21 property owners probably an extra five feet on the
14:18:24 back, and some of them are going to end up with a
14:18:27 sewer line on their new-found property.
14:18:30 >>> That's right.
14:18:31 >> You know, she asked an interesting question.
14:18:37 She says, you know, what is the financial impact?
14:18:40 I thought she said what is the potential liability.
14:18:43 But, anyway, that's sort of what came to my mind.
14:18:46 About a potential, now private sewer pipe underneath
14:18:55 private property.
14:18:57 I know where you are coming from, because, you know,
14:19:01 generally we all know what goes through the sewer
14:19:03 pipe, but for argument sake what if somebody flushed
14:19:08 down a hazardous substance down their sewer?
14:19:11 And I'm sure it does happen sometimes.
14:19:13 >>> Unfortunately.
14:19:13 >> If it goes through a private pipe, happens to have
14:19:17 a leak in the pipe, et cetera, it could create a
14:19:22 horrible -- lawyers would deal with it.
14:19:24 But it would concern me a little bit if I was one of
14:19:26 those property owners.
14:19:27 That's all.
14:19:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
14:19:31 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble
14:19:34 figuring out what the right thing to do is here.
14:19:37 And Mr. Dingfelder brought up some good questions.
14:19:43 One of her original questions was, what is the city's
14:19:48 policy on vacating an alley with a large sewer pipe
14:19:50 under ground?
14:19:52 So that's a question.
14:19:54 Have we done this before?
14:19:55 >>> We have vacated alleys where there has been sewer
14:20:00 Every time when do, we reserve an easement and we are
14:20:04 trying to put a new procedure in place to actually
14:20:06 have the petitioner make improvements to our facility
14:20:09 in the alley prior to allowing the vacating to
14:20:15 We are very much about perfecting our infrastructure.
14:20:17 >> Right.
14:20:18 But if we have vacate it, we are not reserving an
14:20:21 >>> Not in this case.
14:20:23 Where we provided connection to every one of those
14:20:25 homes to the right-of-way out on 33rd street, we
14:20:28 have asked them in the past to use that.
14:20:31 They haven't complied to this point.
14:20:32 >> Well, then my question is, if they did comply and
14:20:38 hook up with sewer pipe on the street, sewer and
14:20:44 water, why aren't they doing that?
14:20:46 They want it both ways.
14:20:47 They want to have their alley but they don't want to
14:20:49 hook up to the city sewer lines.
14:20:53 Like they have got to maybe make a choice about that.
14:20:56 >>> At the present time they are connected to the city
14:20:58 system at some point.
14:21:00 It has been shown through testing they do at some
14:21:04 point to connect to our system. Where that connection
14:21:06 actually is somewhat of a mystery still.
14:21:08 Because they don't tie directly into a manhole or
14:21:11 normal mode of connection that we use.
14:21:13 And that's why I would say it's still somewhat of --
14:21:17 somewhere downstream we have been able to find, we'll
14:21:20 dump red dye into their cleanout, it gets downstream
14:21:23 and we are able to see that.
14:21:25 We know for a fact it's coming from that system.
14:21:27 How it's tied in, it is not done in a method we would
14:21:29 normally use so he would don't know the exact point.
14:21:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I've got a little problem with the
14:21:38 language that's used here and I might be able to go
14:21:40 ahead and vote for this.
14:21:41 But maybe not in the form it's in.
14:21:43 Tim in, your e-mail you said because the line in your
14:21:46 alley is private, unable to make such requirement -- a
14:21:50 permanent easement, you are unable to -- but I think
14:21:53 we could, since it's our ordinance that we are about
14:21:55 to vote on, because I think we have potential problems
14:22:01 Right now you have got folks who are using that two
14:22:08 houses are using that private line. If we vacate it
14:22:11 today or within the next several weeks you will now
14:22:12 have a private line through there.
14:22:14 If they had a problem with it, they wouldn't be able
14:22:16 to access it or use it because it would be going
14:22:18 across their neighbor's property.
14:22:20 So I think we have to reserve an easement for the city
14:22:23 to be able to get to that line.
14:22:25 Now, another some point down the road, in the next
14:22:27 year or so, you might be able to force them to switch
14:22:30 over but it isn't happening overnight.
14:22:32 So I can probably support the vacating if we amend it
14:22:37 to include an easement.
14:22:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess my question is, I heard him
14:22:48 say they are connected at some point, just don't know
14:22:51 where it is, it's a mystery.
14:22:53 >>> We know a rough location of where it is.
14:22:56 Trying to find how someone tied into a sewer line can
14:22:59 be a bit of a challenge sometimes just because of the
14:23:02 nature of where it located.
14:23:04 We have been doing our best to Troy to hunt down
14:23:06 exactly where the pipe is.
14:23:08 It hasn't been an easy situation to this point.
14:23:13 We are trying to use our CPTV and things like that but
14:23:20 trying to narrow it down is a little difficult.
14:23:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Legal, do you need more time on that?
14:23:38 >>JULIA COLE: This is a little bit of a complicated
14:23:39 legal issue as to what happens when you vacate the
14:23:42 public easement, public right-of-way.
14:23:44 What does it mean in terms of property rights for
14:23:46 these other properties.
14:23:48 I was only hearing part of it upstairs.
14:23:50 But I do think we need to continue on this, let the
14:23:53 legal department look over what the implications are
14:23:56 and bring it back.
14:23:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So two weeks?
14:23:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move for a two-week continuance
14:24:01 and I will say I am sympathetic to the petitioner and
14:24:04 I would like to try to help this situation of the
14:24:05 garbage and the vagrants and crime and that sort of
14:24:10 But we have to work out these technical details, too.
14:24:12 >> Motion to continue for two weeks.
14:24:31 >>THE CLERK: You have the continued public changes.
14:24:35 10:30 you have four staff reports.
14:24:37 1:30, six wet zoning petitions.
14:24:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll do it under staff report.
14:24:42 Can it come in as a staff report?
14:24:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.
14:24:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You are four set at 10:30.
14:24:55 If you wish you can probably do it in the morning.
14:24:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: At 11:00.
14:25:01 Can you come back November 20 around 11:00?
14:25:07 >> I'm sorry, I have my granddaughter's cotillion and
14:25:10 I'm taking my mom.
14:25:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, we have heard his reasons.
14:25:16 I think these are more the technical legal issues.
14:25:22 >>> You have a letter from both of the owners.
14:25:25 And they know they need to hook up to the city.
14:25:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: December 4th is your next regular
14:25:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, December 4, 11:00?
14:25:36 How does that look?
14:25:37 >>THE CLERK: You have seven code amendment public
14:25:42 hearings, chapter 27.
14:25:44 You have a comp plan amendment at 9:30.
14:25:46 You have a closure petition continued to 10:00 that
14:25:50 You have four staff report at 10:30.
14:25:53 Two wet zoning petitions at 1:30.
14:25:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So 11:00?
14:26:00 Time certain.
14:26:01 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:26:04 Thank you.
14:26:05 December 4.
14:26:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 94 has been open.
14:26:11 I move to continue to the 8th of --
14:26:16 December 4, right?
14:26:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 4, '08.
14:26:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
14:26:23 (Motion carried).
14:26:24 Item 95.
14:26:27 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Assistant city attorney.
14:26:30 You have before you the appeal of Variance Review
14:26:32 Board's denial of case VRB 08-91.
14:26:38 The property owner in this appeal is located at -- I'm
14:26:43 sorry, the property in this appeal is located at 2919
14:26:46 west Woodlawn and the petitioner and property owner is
14:26:49 Leonard Whitehurst.
14:26:51 There were two variance requests connected with this
14:26:54 First was to reduce the front yard setback from 20
14:26:58 feet to 14 feet 7 inches.
14:27:01 And the second was to reduce the rear yard setback
14:27:04 from 20 feet to 11 feet.
14:27:07 Then it also allowed the encroachment of gutters.
14:27:10 This is all to a residential addition.
14:27:15 Variance, after the Variance Review Board heard
14:27:19 testimony and received evidence the board separated
14:27:22 the two variance requests, and they granted the
14:27:27 variance to reduce the rear yard setback by a vote of
14:27:31 7 to 0.
14:27:32 They next addressed the variance to reduce the front
14:27:34 yard setback and the board eventually voted to deny
14:27:37 the application by a vote of 4 to 3 on the basis being
14:27:41 that the hardship criteria had not been met with
14:27:44 regard to the health and life safety issues, and with
14:27:48 regard to the reasonable usage of the residents.
14:27:51 There can be no new evidence presented to you today.
14:27:53 And your actions shall be solely based on the record
14:27:56 created at the Variance Review Board.
14:27:58 And at this time I will turn the podium over to Mrs.
14:28:04 Mercedes Whitehurst and her husband Leonard.
14:28:08 >> when I took this to the board, I had explained to
14:28:13 them that I had hired a contractor from Lowes, through
14:28:19 Lowes, the manager at Lowes.
14:28:21 I had given to the contractor.
14:28:24 At that point he ordered everything.
14:28:28 He took $33,000 from me.
14:28:31 He is now serving time.
14:28:34 It was to build on top of my home for my daughter and
14:28:37 my grandchildren, because they live with me.
14:28:39 I couldn't do that, so what we did was we connected
14:28:43 the bedroom on the left-hand side and the dining room
14:28:46 that's on the right-hand side of the house as you face
14:28:49 it and made 196 square feet to join the two places
14:28:53 together, so it's kind of -- you had to go in two
14:28:58 So that's the front -- that's this part of the house.
14:29:10 Anyway, we went over by five feet.
14:29:19 I already had my plans in at the permit, and
14:29:23 everything has passed except for my variance.
14:29:31 It has caused a very bad hardship on me.
14:29:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, am ma'am.
14:29:36 Excuse me just for a minute, okay?
14:29:38 It's all right.
14:29:39 Is there anyone here in opposition to this?
14:29:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Pardon me?
14:29:45 >> I'm just trying to find out if there was any --
14:29:49 >>> No one was opposed to it.
14:29:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What's the pleasure of the board?
14:29:52 Do you all want to finish hearing that?
14:29:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If she can regain her composure.
14:29:58 >>> I'm fine. Anyway, the question was, why didn't I
14:30:03 build out to the side of MacDill?
14:30:04 I live on the corner of MacDill and Woodlawn.
14:30:07 The Buccaneers stadium.
14:30:10 I have had cars in my front yard.
14:30:12 I have had dead animals.
14:30:16 I have had almost children run over.
14:30:20 Mr. Miranda lived in that neighborhood so he has seen
14:30:26 what the traffic looks like.
14:30:27 That's why my grandchildren don't stay in that bedroom
14:30:31 in case something happens.
14:30:35 I just wanted to join the house as one piece.
14:30:38 That's all I wanted to do.
14:30:41 I did it.
14:30:44 I didn't pull permits on it but I do have permits now.
14:30:48 This is what they have given me and the only thing
14:30:50 that's lacking -- everything passed on my permit, or
14:30:54 except the fact that --
14:31:00 Thank you.
14:31:04 Thank you.
14:31:05 This is my house.
14:31:06 This is the part that we built.
14:31:11 This is it from the road.
14:31:15 I'm sorry. Anyway, this is MacDill.
14:31:18 This is what it looks like.
14:31:20 This is the only part we have.
14:31:22 And like I said, this is MacDill.
14:31:29 And this is on the other side, coming from Woodlawn to
14:31:34 This is what it looks like.
14:31:35 And they have glass blocks across the top.
14:31:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, ma'am, okay.
14:31:45 Any questions from council?
14:31:50 No questions?
14:31:52 Motion to close?
14:31:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
14:31:54 >> Second.
14:31:54 (Motion carried).
14:31:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What is the pleasure of council?
14:31:59 >>MARY MULHERN: I would move to overturn the decision
14:32:05 of the Variance Review Board and grant the variance
14:32:11 based on the hardship of the traffic at the location
14:32:16 where she is, and the financial hardship that was
14:32:25 brought upon her by the loss of money to this
14:32:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
14:32:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
14:32:30 Mr. Chairman, I think she spoke rightly when she
14:32:33 talked about the traffic and about the things that go
14:32:36 on, not only there but in the whole neighborhood.
14:32:38 You have people at times -- I'm not going to tell you
14:32:41 it's everybody -- urinating in front of you, yelling
14:32:44 at you, things of that nature.
14:32:47 And it's the whole neighborhood.
14:32:49 So I understand the parameter which we are in.
14:32:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's moved and seconded.
14:32:55 All in favor?
14:32:58 All right.
14:32:58 All right, ma'am.
14:32:59 You got it.
14:33:00 We grant it to you.
14:33:01 >>> Thank you very much.
14:33:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Good luck to you.
14:33:13 Thank you.
14:33:13 Thank you very much.
14:33:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then we have calendar.
14:33:27 >> If she can't afford to go to circuit court, you
14:33:43 shouldn't go to circuit court.
14:33:44 >> You can go to circuit court by yourself.
14:33:50 There's some people that want to represent themselves.
14:33:52 >> I know, but she shouldn't have to.
14:33:54 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: City clerk.
14:33:56 Council, I believe you have the calendar before you
14:33:59 for 2009.
14:34:02 And this would be the second revision.
14:34:05 As you know, you have your regular meetings on the
14:34:09 first and third Thursday.
14:34:12 On the second Thursday, CRA.
14:34:14 And on the fourth Thursday, your workshop.
14:34:18 We made some revisions based on input from council's
14:34:25 And Land Development Coordination.
14:34:28 So if you would like any comments.
14:34:36 >> I want top complicate you and Land Development
14:34:37 Coordination and our attorney.
14:34:39 I think this is the best organized calendar we have
14:34:41 ever seen.
14:34:42 I think it just great.
14:34:44 And I have had a chance top review.
14:34:46 The only thing I want to add, I passed out a memo to
14:34:50 council members, some months as we all know have five
14:34:53 Thursdays, like a bonus or something.
14:34:55 And October is one.
14:34:58 I wanted to suggest a special discussion meeting on
14:35:01 October 29th to discuss policy goals.
14:35:06 >> A year from now?
14:35:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Let get the year right.
14:35:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Some of us may be pushing daisies.
14:35:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The only thing I would say in regard
14:35:21 to that is, I thought that's why we have our retreat,
14:35:24 our strategic planning session, to set our policies
14:35:27 and set direction for the year.
14:35:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My thought behind this,
14:35:32 Mr. Chairman, is that our retreat looks primarily at
14:35:34 our processes, and that this would be for policy.
14:35:39 And the idea is just to get that date kind of in
14:35:42 there, and as we get closer to it, if you want to make
14:35:46 it for some special -- and this is a special
14:35:50 It's just a special discussion.
14:35:51 I just thought we have such a complex city, we need as
14:35:57 much opportunity to improve things as we can.
14:36:00 And I wanted to get it on the agenda.
14:36:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a question.
14:36:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, councilman.
14:36:08 >> Charlie is our baseball aficionado.
14:36:12 He would all appreciate double headers but nobody
14:36:15 appreciates triple headers.
14:36:16 There's probably no such thing in baseball.
14:36:19 But, anyway, I think we all like to avoid triple
14:36:23 headers, in other words, a morning, and afternoon, and
14:36:26 evening meeting, because by the time you get to
14:36:28 evening you are just worthless.
14:36:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if I can, April is the only
14:36:32 one that has that from what I understand.
14:36:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I see a potential on January
14:36:37 8th because you have a regular session of council.
14:36:40 Which usually often regular sessions of council
14:36:43 include a 1:30 meeting.
14:36:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: On January 8th council, working
14:36:49 with land development, with the clerk, council, the
14:36:52 way I tried to structure this is when you have a
14:37:00 morning session whether it's a workshop or regular
14:37:02 session, that nothing be scheduled in the afternoon,
14:37:04 if you have an evening session.
14:37:06 Therefore, if you will notice, on those days that when
14:37:08 you have alcoholic beverages scheduled at 1:30 those
14:37:13 are always on days when you have nothing at night.
14:37:17 I want to attract your attention, if I can -- I'm
14:37:20 sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Dingfelder.
14:37:21 But just for the sake of argument, because there are
14:37:24 several on this calendar, this is a policy decision.
14:37:26 If you take a month such as, let's say, November,
14:37:33 November of next year is a very shortened month
14:37:37 because you only have three days of meetings.
14:37:42 Now, November is representative because what I
14:37:46 suggested, council, is that on those days that you
14:37:50 don't have -- those months that you don't have the
14:37:53 opportunity for separate day for a workshop, and a
14:37:57 separate day for a CRA, that you take the opportunity
14:38:00 to combine the two and have both of them that same
14:38:05 Now, I have heard -- and I have had an opportunity to
14:38:09 talk with the chairman of the CRA, what is proposed
14:38:13 may not be what council wants, but for the sake of
14:38:15 argument, you can start with the City Council workshop
14:38:19 and set two hours aside and have CRA for an hour at
14:38:24 What might be more appropriate is to have the CRA at
14:38:27 9:00, and then perhaps the set the workshop for 10:30
14:38:33 or even 10:00 because those people with the workshop
14:38:35 can wait until you finished with the CRA business.
14:38:41 I guess if it's council's pleasure to then have the
14:38:55 CRA on those days when there are both the workshops
14:38:59 and extra scheduled to have the CRAs begin at nine.
14:39:03 Then how much time did you want to set aside for the
14:39:05 CRA, again knowing you can always go further and hold
14:39:09 up the workshops?
14:39:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 10:00.
14:39:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: One of the things that I don't wish
14:39:16 to have council do is when council comes in and has a
14:39:20 meeting, I don't like to have to have to take a break
14:39:23 during business time.
14:39:24 I almost prefer to have a little bit of an overlap if
14:39:28 you can, so you don't have to break the beginning of
14:39:30 the meeting.
14:39:35 Then to do the workshop later.
14:39:37 Is that acceptable, madam clerk, would that be -- do
14:39:40 you need a motion to make that or just propose it? A
14:39:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move it.
14:39:44 >> Second.
14:39:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded that we on those
14:39:47 days have a workshop and CRA, we have a CRA at 9:00,
14:39:51 from 9:00 to 10:00 with the understanding we may go
14:39:54 over, and workshop follow after that.
14:39:56 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:40:00 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a question.
14:40:03 Where would we be holding our council --
14:40:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The April strategic planning meeting?
14:40:13 That would be off-site.
14:40:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Then come back here at night?
14:40:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: My suggestion would be, council, the
14:40:19 children's board is very close by, or the center is
14:40:26 close by.
14:40:26 If you have it here, you can choose to have it in this
14:40:30 Disadvantage is the way this room is set up as opposed
14:40:32 to -- on the 18th, the children's board, you will
14:40:37 be in a smaller room than you were last time, more
14:40:40 intimate setting.
14:40:41 But obviously if you wish to have it here, you have
14:40:46 the option to make amendments to it and to change it.
14:40:50 But for the purposes of setting public hearings and
14:40:54 giving the administration and the public direction of
14:40:56 where council is going, it's necessary to put the
14:40:59 calendar in advance.
14:41:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let my say something to council.
14:41:04 It very important, when we go forward with our regular
14:41:11 meetings and workshops, it doesn't mean that you just
14:41:14 make up something to do, or all that time for your
14:41:17 Workshop generally, those issues that are critical
14:41:20 that we need to discuss.
14:41:22 I just want to understand just because we have a free
14:41:24 hour or two, doesn't mean we have to fill it in with
14:41:27 something, okay?
14:41:30 I want to be clear on that.
14:41:33 It's designed so when you have critical issues,
14:41:35 important issues, that you can schedule them.
14:41:37 But also there might be some fourth Thursdays that you
14:41:43 might only have one hour for workshop and not fill up
14:41:46 all day.
14:41:47 Keep that in mind.
14:41:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move that we adopt the calendar
14:41:51 presented to us.
14:41:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Any modification?
14:41:59 Question on the motion.
14:42:01 The second, strategic planning meeting, we are doing
14:42:04 one next week.
14:42:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: November 18th.
14:42:06 >> And then we are doing one in April?
14:42:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Next year.
14:42:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: My suggestion, council, for that,
14:42:12 that would be several weeks after your organizational
14:42:14 meeting which is the first meeting in April.
14:42:16 That will give you several weeks to be able to prepare
14:42:19 for that.
14:42:19 One of the regrets that I think I found this past year
14:42:23 is to not have scheduled it in advance, because I had
14:42:28 been planning to get a date that works for everybody
14:42:30 for this strategic planning meeting for the past
14:42:32 several months, and to have it in the calendar.
14:42:34 It's on a Thursday.
14:42:36 Hopefully, council members will be available, and it
14:42:39 would be so council would know --
14:42:43 Have it the same time of the year and in my
14:42:47 experience, and we are all different, coming from
14:42:49 county commission, we always had ours after
14:42:53 organization meeting first week of December every
14:42:55 So you should keep it consistent.
14:42:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So is it the intent to have it just
14:43:02 once a year, sliding it into the spring instead of the
14:43:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.
14:43:07 Your last meeting was in, I believe, June.
14:43:09 >> Summer, right.
14:43:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The next one is going to be November
14:43:14 18th and that will be this year.
14:43:15 Next year hopefully if it successful and council
14:43:18 wishes you can have it every year of a your
14:43:20 organizational meeting in April.
14:43:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And I am not including in my motion
14:43:24 the suggestion about October.
14:43:26 Call the question.
14:43:28 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a question about the April
14:43:31 Is that like after our organizational meeting
14:43:34 literally, the same day?
14:43:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
14:43:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Three weeks.
14:43:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor of the motion signify by
14:43:44 saying Aye.
14:43:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to clarify something on next
14:43:50 week's agenda.
14:43:51 The special discussion meeting at 1:30.
14:43:54 The two things got put together, the transfer
14:43:57 development rights, the demolition by neglect.
14:44:02 It should just be transfer of development right.
14:44:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That was done by motion.
14:44:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:44:09 One other item here.
14:44:13 This was called to my attention.
14:44:14 I guess Mrs. Bucklen called in.
14:44:17 She must have missed it where our staff handed out her
14:44:21 letter and the questions, if she's watching this, this
14:44:24 was brought to our attention and it was addressed this
14:44:30 So she didn't note that had been referenced.
14:44:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We should give her the date.
14:44:39 >>> She's citing that she has health problems and
14:44:41 cannot be here.
14:44:42 But the new time is continued to December 4th at
14:44:46 11 a.m. in the morning.
14:44:49 And her letter is a part of the record.
14:44:51 So I just want to make sure that's clear.
14:44:53 And it was noted and highlighted in the report today.
14:45:02 I wanted her to hear that again, if she's watching,
14:45:05 again, that she missed it, that was highlighted,
14:45:08 noted, and we called conned it to December 4 at 11
14:45:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Shout out to Mrs. Bucklen.
14:45:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:45:20 I hope that's enclosure now.
14:45:21 Anything else to come before council?
14:45:23 Yes, sir.
14:45:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just one other quick item before we
14:45:25 go to this gentleman.
14:45:29 The federal government, HUD, has allocated as of
14:45:32 September, $4 billion to address foreclosure issues.
14:45:38 And basically, it looks like they are establishing a
14:45:41 program through the CDBG program to assist local
14:45:45 governments to purchase homes that have been
14:45:48 foreclosed and they are now abandoned and sitting out
14:45:51 there and really causing blight in neighborhoods.
14:45:55 We hear about busted in windows and fires, and
14:45:58 swimming pools that are getting disgusting, et cetera,
14:46:02 et cetera.
14:46:02 But, anyway, I would just like a report from Cindy
14:46:07 Miller's group on whether or not we are attempting to
14:46:09 participate in this $4 billion --
14:46:15 We have this to come before council.
14:46:19 We are getting 13.1 million, or .6 million and working
14:46:25 to come back to us and give us more information on
14:46:28 She did appear before us, to give us an update on
14:46:32 what's called a neighborhood stabilization program.
14:46:34 She came to give information on that and she will
14:46:36 report back to us.
14:46:42 >> Do we know when she's coming back?
14:46:44 >> I can't recall but I know she was here and we
14:46:46 discussed it.
14:46:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
14:46:53 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone) if you know about
14:46:56 this, the program, how much -- how much is the city
14:47:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 13.6.
14:47:03 The county getting 19.1.
14:47:05 >> This is for us as a city to purchase, though.
14:47:09 >> Purchase out of foreclosure.
14:47:15 >>MARY MULHERN: But it is the city, not something
14:47:17 administered through CDBG.
14:47:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
14:47:20 Well, it set up similar to the CDBG.
14:47:23 >>MARY MULHERN: But it's through the city, too. And
14:47:26 then I had an item of new business that came up
14:47:28 between the morning -- during lunch and I just wanted
14:47:32 to ask if we could make a motion to put on the agenda
14:47:36 for our December 18th meeting under staff report a
14:47:41 ten-minute presentation by Robin Nigh on the Lights on
14:47:45 Tampa program.
14:47:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:47:48 >>MARY MULHERN: That will be happening in January.
14:47:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I guess the issue, our last
14:47:57 meeting is pretty heavy, with my discussion with the
14:47:59 So we are concerned about that time frame and
14:48:02 But I can tell you that we had discussion earlier with
14:48:05 the clerk, and we seem to have a pretty healthy agenda
14:48:09 on the 18th.
14:48:19 >>MARY MULHERN: Maybe she could do it sooner.
14:48:23 What's our next meeting?
14:48:24 Is there any more room?
14:48:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 4th of December.
14:48:30 >>THE CLERK: On the 4th of December you have quite
14:48:32 a hefty agenda already for that date.
14:48:34 >>MARY MULHERN: Would November 20th be more time
14:48:36 in there?
14:48:38 >>THE CLERK: Right now you have two presentations,
14:48:41 commendation for that date, you have a continued
14:48:43 public hearing on chapter 9, four staff reports and
14:48:47 seven wet zoning petitions.
14:48:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: We only have four staff reports
14:48:57 presently in the morning.
14:48:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Can we put that on the agenda
14:49:01 understood staff report for ten minutes?
14:49:03 And I'll just check with her and see if that's going
14:49:05 to work.
14:49:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would suggest five minutes because
14:49:07 you are probably going to discuss it and it will go
14:49:09 over the five minutes more than likely.
14:49:14 >>MARY MULHERN: If we are going to do it five minutes
14:49:16 then we may as well leave it at December 18th.
14:49:19 I wanted to give her the ten minutes.
14:49:21 I don't think she would ask for it in she could do it
14:49:23 in less time.
14:49:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I only have one vote so that's up to
14:49:27 what council wants to do.
14:49:28 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a heavy agenda.
14:49:33 We need to do it on the 20th.
14:49:36 >>MARY MULHERN: But give her ten minutes on the
14:49:38 That's my motion.
14:49:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:49:40 Is there a second?
14:49:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:49:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
14:49:47 State the motion again.
14:49:47 >>MARY MULHERN: To put on November 20th a
14:49:51 10-minute staff report by Robin Nigh who is the
14:49:54 director of our program on the Lights on Tampa project
14:49:58 which will be -- it's a public arts program that will
14:50:01 be happening during the Super Bowl in January.
14:50:04 So she needs to present it to us before.
14:50:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion and second.
14:50:10 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:50:17 Yes, Ms. Miller will be here on the 20th of
14:50:22 November, bring back an update on the housing.
14:50:27 Anything else?
14:50:29 Receive and file.
14:50:30 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
14:50:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
14:50:33 (Motion carried).
14:50:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions by council?
14:50:36 All right.
14:50:40 >>MARY MULHERN: Is that the week before Thanksgiving?
14:50:43 >> Thanksgiving is the 27th.
14:50:45 At this time we will take public comment.
14:50:53 (Meeting adjourned)
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