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Thursday, November 20, 2008
9:00 a.m. session

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09:04:49 >> CHAIRMAN SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come
09:04:50 to order.
09:04:51 Chairman will yield to the honorable Mary Mulhern.
09:04:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, chairman.
09:04:56 I would like to introduce a good friend and community
09:05:00 activist in Tampa, attorney Shelly reback is going to
09:05:07 give our invocation today.
09:05:10 She's a very well-known criminal defense attorney and
09:05:13 perhaps better known as a champion in Tampa and
09:05:16 Hillsborough County of human rights and all our

09:05:23 Constitutional rights so please remain seated for the
09:05:26 invocation and please stand for the pledge of
09:05:28 allegiance afterwards.
09:05:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Everybody please stand.
09:05:41 >>> Thank you.
09:05:41 I look for a way to invoke the hopes we have for
09:05:44 change with the election of our new president.
09:05:49 And I found that poet Derek Walcott, a western Indian
09:05:55 for the 1992 Nobel prize for literature published on
09:05:58 November 5th in the Times of London, a poem to
09:06:01 celebrate the election of Barack Obama to the
09:06:03 presidency of the United States.
09:06:04 The poem chronicles the journey of Africans from
09:06:10 slaves through the imagery of the hard work of tilling
09:06:15 the rich soil of America to bring forth its gifts.
09:06:18 The poem is called "Forty Acres."
09:06:21 Out of the turmoil emerges one emblem, an engraving --
09:06:24 a young Negro at dawn in straw hat and overalls, an
09:06:29 emblem of impossible prophecy, a crowd dividing like
09:06:33 the furrow which a mule has ploughed, parting for
09:06:36 their president, a field of snow-flecked cotton 40
09:06:41 acres wide, of crows with predictable omens, that the

09:06:48 young ploughman ignores for his unforgotten
09:06:48 cotton-haired ancestors, while lined on one branch, is
09:06:48 a tense court of bespectacled owls and, on the field's
09:06:48 receding rim -- a gesticulating scarecrow stamping
09:06:48 with rage at him. The small plough continues on this
09:07:03 lined page, beyond the moaning ground, the lynching
09:07:07 tree, the tornado's black vengeance, and the young
09:07:11 ploughman feels the change in his veins, heart,
09:07:14 muscles, tendons, till the land lies open like a flag,
09:07:19 as dawn's sure light streaks the field and furrows
09:07:23 wait for the sower.
09:07:32 Thank you.
09:07:32 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:07:50 Roll call.
09:07:53 [Roll Call]
09:07:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The chair will now yield to the
09:07:58 honorable Gwendolyn Miller.
09:08:04 >>GWEN MILLER: It's my honor to introduce our officer
09:08:16 of the months, officer Steven basketball.
09:08:26 Will you please come forward?
09:08:27 >> Assistant chief.
09:08:32 Good morning, council.

09:08:33 Of course it's always a privilege to introduce the
09:08:35 Officer of the Month, and officer Stephen barber has
09:08:44 only been with the city since 2007 and in that brief
09:08:47 time he has distinguished himself as one of the finer
09:08:51 employees of the Tampa Police Department.
09:08:56 He is currently assigned to district 2, Woodland
09:08:59 terrace, and he has been embraced by that community as
09:09:01 well as having embraced the community itself.
09:09:06 I think he's become somewhat of a household name
09:09:09 there.
09:09:09 They actually had his private cell phone.
09:09:14 And for an officer, of his tenure that has only been
09:09:18 with the department, to provide his cell phone, and to
09:09:20 be available even on his own days off, and not request
09:09:29 compensation is truly an indicator of what he brings
09:09:31 to the table.
09:09:32 Last month in just two cases he was responsible for
09:09:34 the capture of suspects in a carjacking when he
09:09:38 spotted a vehicle on patrol which matched the
09:09:41 description which took a couple violent felons off the
09:09:48 street.
09:09:49 Later he was responsible for the capture of a robber

09:09:51 after a robbery had occurred, and that was early in
09:09:55 the morning.
09:09:55 Once again he stopped a vehicle, and there he learned
09:09:59 it was a habitual traffic offender.
09:10:01 That led him to an arrest, and a search of that
09:10:04 vehicle in which he discovered the clothing of the
09:10:08 armed robber and the firearm underneath the spare tire
09:10:12 in the trunk.
09:10:13 So, again, he truly made a difference in the
09:10:16 community.
09:10:18 So I would say that he definitely epitomizes the finer
09:10:23 attributes of the Tampa police officer, and we are
09:10:26 very happy to call him one of ours and I know that the
09:10:31 community is very happy with his service.
09:10:33 So I introduce officer barber.
09:10:43 >>GWEN MILLER: On behalf of the Tampa City Council we
09:10:45 would like to give you this commendation that says all
09:10:47 those good things he just talked about, and I know you
09:10:50 deserve it.
09:10:53 At this time we are going to have some gifts from the
09:10:55 private sector.
09:10:57 We'll start with Charlie's restaurant.

09:11:03 >> Danny Lewis Ford.
09:11:05 You are off to a great start.
09:11:07 Keep up the great work.
09:11:08 Thank you for keeping our community safe.
09:11:10 We would like to present with you this watch.
09:11:14 >> We would like to congratulate you and present with
09:11:20 you a.
09:11:28 >> Tom Waggoner with the Florida Aquarium.
09:11:36 Thank you for everything you are doing in our
09:11:37 community and making it a better and safer place.
09:11:40 There's an annual membership to the Florida Aquarium
09:11:42 for you and your family.
09:11:43 Thank you.
09:11:46 >>> Steve Stickley representing Stepp's towing.
09:11:52 On behalf of Jim and Judy Stepp, Stepps towing, I'm
09:11:57 sure they appreciate the hard work you are doing out
09:11:58 there. We would like to give that you trophy, police
09:12:01 officer, and also on their behalf present with you a
09:12:04 gift certificate to Lee Roy Selmon.
09:12:07 Thank you again for everything you do.
09:12:09 >> Good morning, council.
09:12:14 Congratulations.

09:12:14 I'm Michelle Patty from the referral service and would
09:12:22 like to present you with a gift certificate to my
09:12:25 favorite shop, Macy's.
09:12:30 >>> Representing Tampa Lowry Park Zoo we want to thank
09:12:33 you for all you do for our community, invite you and
09:12:36 your family.
09:12:38 Thank you so much for all you do.
09:12:46 >> I'm the president of the Tampa police benevolent
09:12:49 association.
09:12:49 We are proud of all of our police officers but
09:12:52 particularly proud of you today.
09:12:53 A gift certificate from the law enforcement supply
09:12:56 company, which is on west Hillsborough Avenue.
09:12:59 Congratulations.
09:13:04 >>STEVE MICHELINI: The staff is getting bigger.
09:13:08 We would like to recognize you, on behalf of Bern's
09:13:11 provide with you a $100 gift certificate to enjoy
09:13:13 dinner at Bern's.
09:13:14 On behalf of Bryn Allen studios you can have your
09:13:17 portraits taken over there and we'll give you the
09:13:19 contact information, schedule that, and have your
09:13:22 pictures taken.

09:13:23 On behalf of the Hillsborough County towing
09:13:25 association we want to provide you with a gift
09:13:27 certificate for Carabbas, Outback, or Lee Roy Selmons,
09:13:32 your choice.
09:13:32 On behalf of rigatoni's restaurant we'll provide you
09:13:35 with a gift certificate to enjoy lunch or dinner
09:13:37 there.
09:13:38 Congratulations.
09:13:43 >> I want to say thank you for allowing me to have
09:13:45 this opportunity to be here.
09:13:49 I have come to realize as a police officer that I
09:13:52 can't be on the streets in particular areas 24 hours a
09:13:54 day seven days a week.
09:13:56 It's where I have to build that partnership with the
09:13:57 citizens in the community and the people that live
09:13:59 there and establish themselves in the community.
09:14:01 I feel, and many of the guys that I work with, that we
09:14:04 can have that partnership with the citizens in our
09:14:07 community, not only can we help them but they can help
09:14:10 us at the same time because we as officers cannot be
09:14:12 on the streets 24 hours a day.
09:14:14 That's when we need the eyes and we need the ears and

09:14:16 if we don't have a continuing partnership between law
09:14:19 enforcement and the community, we are not going to get
09:14:21 anything accomplished.
09:14:22 So me and a lot of the guys that I work with, that's
09:14:24 our main goal.
09:14:25 That's what we are here for.
09:14:26 I want to say thank you for allowing me to have this
09:14:29 opportunity to be Officer of the Month.
09:14:31 I'm ecstatic.
09:14:32 I'm super happy.
09:14:34 And I just thank you again.
09:14:37 [ Applause ]
09:14:41 >> And I just wanted to thank all of the supporters of
09:14:48 the Officer of the Month.
09:14:50 You have been over the years and we do appreciate that
09:14:52 support.
09:14:53 It means a lot to the men and women of the Tampa
09:14:54 Police Department.
09:14:55 So thank you very much.
09:15:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And now I would like to have a
09:15:15 presentation to the Moffitt cancer center.
09:15:24 I believe Ms. Christy Clapp is here to receive it.

09:15:31 This sap commendation to Moffitt cancer center for
09:15:51 cancer awareness month, November 2008.
09:15:56 Whereas Tampa City Council joins Moffitt cancer center
09:15:59 in promoting national lung cancer awareness month,
09:16:02 whereas Tampa City Council recognizes that lung cancer
09:16:05 is the leading cause of cancer death claiming the
09:16:08 lives of approximately 162,000 Americans each year,
09:16:14 including approximately 12,500 Floridians, accordingly
09:16:20 we encourage all efforts to advance lung cancer
09:16:23 research, to promote access to the latest treatment,
09:16:27 and whereas we invite all citizens to learn more about
09:16:30 this important issue through Moffitt, lung cancer
09:16:34 exhibit, communicate a message of hope that promotes
09:16:40 patients participation and clinical research.
09:16:42 Now therefore be it proclaimed that the Tampa City
09:16:44 Council does hereby recognize and commend Moffitt
09:16:47 cancer center and wishes you success in your efforts
09:16:51 to treat those with lung cancer, develop new methods
09:16:55 to come back -- combat this disease, signed by all the
09:16:59 distinguished men and women of City Council.
09:17:02 I want to present this to you.
09:17:03 And again we appreciate the work that Moffitt is

09:17:05 doing.
09:17:08 Moffitt is a crown jewel in our community, and is so
09:17:12 important to us and we appreciate the work that you
09:17:13 are doing.
09:17:16 [ Applause ]
09:17:25 First I'd like to start off this morning and thank the
09:17:29 council for supporting Moffitt and all the for our
09:17:35 research facility.
09:17:36 So thank you guys very much for your continued
09:17:38 support.
09:17:40 As far as this initiative, lung cancer is near and
09:17:46 dear to our heart in the authorize as you can
09:17:49 department but he would take a family and patient
09:17:52 perspective on all the activities that we do to help
09:17:54 raise awareness, and with 215,000, it's of great
09:18:03 importance that we continue to build upon the research
09:18:07 that sentence currently underway to provide more
09:18:10 effective treatment for those that are newly
09:18:12 diagnosed.
09:18:13 Our faces of lung cancer, which is a commendation, is
09:18:17 a project that we did, stories from patients and
09:18:22 caregivers talking about their diagnosis as well as

09:18:24 the importance of research and it's been a great in
09:18:31 order to get the word out on lung cancer.
09:18:33 I would like to introduce now Dan Guzman who is in our
09:18:38 faces of lung cancer second project, one of the faces
09:18:41 within our department.
09:18:43 >> I would like to thank you, council, nor wonderful
09:18:46 declaration, from my heart to my collapsed lung, I
09:18:51 thank you.
09:18:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena and councilman
09:18:56 Miranda.
09:18:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I don't think there is a family in
09:19:00 this community that hasn't in some way but touched by
09:19:03 cancer, and the work and row search that you are doing
09:19:05 is so important.
09:19:07 God's speed.
09:19:08 Thank you.
09:19:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to echo the same remarks.
09:19:18 When you look at Moffitt, all the parking at Moffitt
09:19:21 for patients and caregivers are by valet parking.
09:19:26 I would venture to say that in one day, each and every
09:19:31 day, there is more valet parking at Moffitt for the
09:19:38 scope of diseases that are there than all the hotels

09:19:41 in the City of Tampa and possibly all the hotels of
09:19:43 Hillsborough County combined.
09:19:50 And I've seen people from South Carolina, from Naples,
09:19:56 from Texas, from all over the country.
09:19:58 We have to find a cure.
09:20:01 Thank you very much.
09:20:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much again.
09:20:09 We just can't say enough about Moffitt and those who
09:20:11 work so hard at the research.
09:20:13 Thank you very much.
09:20:14 Okay.
09:20:14 We will now have review of the agenda.
09:20:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have before you the agenda.
09:20:31 At the top you have two items of new business that I
09:20:32 believe will be brought up at the end of the meeting
09:20:38 to add future items on future agendas.
09:20:40 With regard to substitution of the agenda items, item
09:20:44 number 3, you have a memorandum from assistant city
09:20:47 attorney Judy Kabougeris for the ordinance be
09:20:51 substituted to pro.
09:20:54 To correct the title of the ordinance.
09:20:56 I believe you have that substitution.

09:20:58 With regards to items 91 and 92, assistant city
09:21:02 attorney Julia Cole is here to give you additional
09:21:05 substituted items for your review of the outdoor
09:21:17 advertising agreements.
09:21:20 Under 91 and it 92.
09:21:22 >>JULIA COLE: I have given you in a memo the
09:21:25 differences between the agreement that was in doc
09:21:27 agenda and the agreement that you have in front of
09:21:29 you.
09:21:30 In addition after going through the agreement last
09:21:32 night, and fielding some questions, I am going to
09:21:36 request that I substitute the permitted list for
09:21:39 exhibit "C" for the clear channel agreement which is
09:21:44 item 91 and exhibit E for the CVS agreement.
09:21:48 It's not a substantive amendment.
09:21:50 All it doing is placing on the bottom of those lists a
09:21:53 total of number which I thought might be easier for
09:21:56 you to have in front of you as opposed to me just
09:21:58 telling you what the total number is, and also because
09:22:00 this if these agreements are approved these are items
09:22:05 that would be living on, and I just thought they would
09:22:07 be better to have a number on the pot only so that is

09:22:11 the only purpose is just to give the total number but
09:22:14 wanted to give that to you and have that available to
09:22:16 you.
09:22:16 You will see in the packet I gave you, I actually gave
09:22:18 you all the backup materials of this just so you had
09:22:20 it in front of you.
09:22:21 Backup material you have is the same backup material
09:22:24 that was in the doc agenda system but I thought it
09:22:26 would be helpful to have it in front of you as worry
09:22:28 going through them.
09:22:29 Thank you.
09:22:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question on that issue.
09:22:34 You said 91, 92.
09:22:36 I assume we are talking about consent?
09:22:42 >>> No.
09:22:43 Staff reports.
09:22:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if I can also bring up the
09:22:46 fact in case there's anybody in the public present,
09:22:49 items 91 and 92 under staff reports and unfinished
09:22:53 business are not public hearings so those people who
09:22:55 wish to discuss that, the signs, would be able to
09:23:03 during agendaed public comment which occurs in the

09:23:06 beginning of the meeting.
09:23:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:23:11 Are you okay?
09:23:12 Okay, Mr. Shelby, we need to continues.
09:23:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, item number 38 was a request
09:23:22 from city attorney Chip Fletcher to have that item
09:23:25 removed.
09:23:28 That regards second agreement with gray Robinson.
09:23:35 Item number 95, council, is a request for a
09:23:38 continuance of a wet zoning regarding Wal-Mart on West
09:23:42 Gandy Boulevard.
09:23:43 That cannot be heard until 1:30.
09:23:45 So if anybody is listening or concerned, the 1:30
09:23:49 public hearing, there will be a request to continue it
09:23:51 at the time.
09:23:53 Turning to the second page, items 48 and 49 are being
09:23:57 requested by Cynthia Miller to have those placed
09:23:59 understood staff reports and unfinished business.
09:24:04 48 and 49.
09:24:05 And I believe council member Dingfelder had sent out a
09:24:08 memo yesterday, late afternoon, regarding wanting to
09:24:12 remove items 48 and 49 as well.

09:24:15 That being done, I believe he also requested that
09:24:18 items 4, 22, and 23 and 31 and 32 be removed from the
09:24:26 consent docket and placed under staff reports for
09:24:28 discussion.
09:24:29 Is that correct, sir?
09:24:33 >>> Yes, sir.
09:24:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I do not have any other additions or
09:24:36 substitutions.
09:24:37 I believe I covered them all.
09:24:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item number 4, 22 and 23, 31 and 32,
09:25:05 requests by councilman Dingfelder.
09:25:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, it's 48 and 49.
09:25:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 48 and 49 is also being done.
09:25:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We talked about doing that at our last
09:25:20 meeting, update on the neighborhood stabilization.
09:25:28 On the agenda item 84 is listed as having an unknown
09:25:31 time but the chair made a determination that will be
09:25:33 heard sometime after 9:30.
09:25:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
09:25:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe that's it.
09:25:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Condition we receive a motion to
09:25:41 approve all the changes to the agenda?

09:25:43 >> So moved.
09:25:44 >> Second.
09:25:44 (Motion carried).
09:25:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we approve the changes even though
09:25:54 we will come back to item 95 and make a motion to
09:25:57 continue that item.
09:25:57 But that will be continued.
09:25:59 Okay?
09:26:10 Those who wish to address council on items for public
09:26:14 comment may come forward now, state your name and
09:26:16 address for the record and you have three minutes.
09:26:25 >> Wolford Johnson, Longfellow Avenue, president of
09:26:29 T.H.A.N.
09:26:30 I'm speaking regarding items 91 and 92, the billboard
09:26:35 issue.
09:26:39 This came to our attention a few weeks ago during a
09:26:43 third party.
09:26:43 Obviously T.H.A.N. has a vital interest in size of
09:26:47 billboards and the impact they have.
09:26:48 From a visual standpoint in the city, and from a
09:26:51 neighborhood perspective.
09:26:56 We talked to Mr. Fletcher and Ms. Cole and they agreed

09:26:59 to meet with representatives from T.H.A.N., which we
09:27:01 appreciate, we received a summary discussion, and at a
09:27:13 T.H.A.N. zoning committee this week, we felt there
09:27:16 were several issues that needed more attention and
09:27:20 explanation.
09:27:20 We regret that we did not have an opportunity to be
09:27:23 involved earlier, as we feel that we could have had
09:27:30 some of these issues resolved, and we would have a
09:27:32 better understanding of them if that had happened.
09:27:42 We certainly don't want to jeopardies any agreement
09:27:44 the city may be negotiating with these firms.
09:27:46 However, if someone like a Margaret Vizzi could have
09:27:49 been involved in the -- who was involved in the city
09:27:54 sign committee over the years had been involved, I
09:27:57 think we would feel more comfortable with the proposed
09:28:00 agreement.
09:28:06 There are several issues on there which we feel should
09:28:08 have some attention in some way.
09:28:10 I will just briefly mention them, and I think Margaret
09:28:13 is here along with Randy baron, and they will make
09:28:16 further comments regarding this proposed agreement.
09:28:24 But we would like to see increased the distance

09:28:26 between signs increased.
09:28:29 In the proposal it's 200 feet from a residential area.
09:28:34 We think that should be increased to a minimum of 300
09:28:36 feet from any residential area.
09:28:44 We think from the signs that are banked in a bank
09:28:47 account per se, that are subject to being relocated,
09:28:58 most of them are down in the bank and throws a lot of
09:29:00 them but those can be removed, moved, and/or replaced.
09:29:05 We feel that that should be verified.
09:29:07 This was a list I think that came from the sign
09:29:10 company.
09:29:10 We feel that should be verified to make certain these
09:29:17 were taken down by the sign company because it just
09:29:22 wasn't a good sign location for them, they weren't
09:29:26 getting advertisers.
09:29:26 As far as we are concerned those shouldn't be in the
09:29:28 bank account.
09:29:30 That's a business decision, and circumstances that
09:29:36 they have to take care of.
09:29:41 Another is to increase the swap ratios from the
09:29:43 standpoint of signs when they do move them, et cetera,
09:29:48 then remove them and reinstall them, then we feel that

09:29:51 those should be that swap ratio which now is three to
09:29:54 would you know one.
09:29:55 That should be increased.
09:29:56 (Bell sounds)
09:29:57 And I think Randy and Margaret will speak.
09:30:04 >>> Randy baron, Comanche Avenue, vice-president of
09:30:09 T.H.A.N.
09:30:09 Let me pick up where Wolford left off.
09:30:13 A couple weeks ago you did push us off until today to
09:30:16 allow us more time to look at the agreement, and in
09:30:18 looking at this agreement, there are certain areas
09:30:22 that we do have concerns.
09:30:27 Mostly it has to do with the fact you are vesting
09:30:32 almost every single sign in the city on exhibit "C"
09:30:34 including all the signs that are down.
09:30:36 Part of this agreement hopefully would have reduced
09:30:39 the number of signs in the city by having swap rates
09:30:42 to allow -- I guess the carrot was the digital signs.
09:30:47 Billboard wants to move to digital signs.
09:30:49 They are vastly more profitable to the billboard
09:30:52 industry but unfortunately they also have a potential
09:30:55 to make the city look more like Las Vegas and New York

09:30:58 than like Tampa.
09:31:00 Technically under this agreement, it's a three-for-two
09:31:04 swap for digital sign, or you can reconfigure,
09:31:08 depending on which section, it actually a one-to-one
09:31:12 swap under certain conditions.
09:31:13 Now, to understand how many signs we are talking
09:31:15 about, on exhibit "C," if you look at the back, the
09:31:19 last page, you will see that there's 46,000 square
09:31:23 feet of billboard space that's down right now that's
09:31:28 in the bank account that they can put up and they can
09:31:30 put anywhere within a commercial or industrial zone as
09:31:33 defined by the sign code.
09:31:35 That essentially means anywhere in this city that's
09:31:37 not 200 feet from residential.
09:31:39 And 200 feet is not a long distance.
09:31:41 I mean, that's 50 lots.
09:31:46 And when you think about that, just think about
09:31:48 staying on a block and looking four houses away,
09:31:51 that's where the billboard can be, and it can be
09:31:53 digital.
09:31:53 And if it happens to be too bright for you under this
09:31:57 agreement, the billboard company can plant foliage to

09:32:01 block it as long as it blocks it within five years.
09:32:04 So the resident can now wait five years and finally,
09:32:06 you know, the sign will be blocked.
09:32:08 So what we are looking for here is more protection for
09:32:10 residents, and also from a policy point of view, you
09:32:13 need to decide what you want the city to look like.
09:32:17 You know, digital billboards can be tasteful and they
09:32:20 cannot be tasteful depending on how bright they are
09:32:22 and what's advertised.
09:32:23 And I'm not suggesting any content restrictions
09:32:26 obviously.
09:32:26 But under this agreement, once you sign it, unlike
09:32:30 TECO which is 25 years, this is forever.
09:32:33 This is forever, if you look in this agreement.
09:32:35 Nothing you can do.
09:32:36 Any subsequent billboard restrictions or legislation
09:32:39 that you pass, it applies to anything within this
09:32:43 contract.
09:32:44 So I implore you to look at this very closely, put it
09:32:48 off for a few more weeks, let's make sure that all the
09:32:51 I's are dotted and the T's crossed and let's increase
09:32:55 the distance to residential.

09:32:57 Thank you.
09:32:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, I don't know if folks
09:33:01 are going to skip around until we have this discussion
09:33:03 with staff but I had a specific discussion of T.H.A.N.
09:33:06 on this issue.
09:33:10 I don't know how to otherwise address this.
09:33:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, part of the policy that we set
09:33:16 up for ourselves is not to ask questions when we are
09:33:18 having public comment.
09:33:19 Let's hear from the public.
09:33:21 And then when we get to the item we'll raise any
09:33:23 questions we have.
09:33:24 That's part of our council rules.
09:33:32 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 south Sherill, seems like I'm
09:33:35 the only one here left of T.H.A.N. that you can ask
09:33:38 questions.
09:33:39 I think one of the main things was that in the
09:33:41 agreement, also -- Margaret Vizzi, 213 south Sherill.
09:33:47 Did I introduce myself? -- is the fact that the
09:33:50 administration, administratively, could give some
09:33:54 exemptions to these.
09:33:56 But my biggest concern is the sign code that was

09:34:00 passed now, I guess about two years ago, we had worked
09:34:04 on that for about two years.
09:34:06 When an agreement with the billboard companies was
09:34:08 made, I don't know, don't even remember how many years
09:34:11 ago, we were very involved in that we found out about
09:34:16 this -- I did -- by a third party who called me, said,
09:34:21 I know you are on the sign committee.
09:34:25 Do you know what's going on?
09:34:26 And I said, no.
09:34:28 We had no clue whatsoever.
09:34:32 As soon as we found out this was said, we called Mr.
09:34:35 Fletcher.
09:34:35 We had a meeting with them.
09:34:36 They gave us a gist.
09:34:38 But that gist did not include many, many, many of the
09:34:42 concerns that were brought up to you that will
09:34:46 adversely affect neighborhoods.
09:34:50 And the city in general.
09:34:51 Because these boards can be moved all over the place,
09:34:54 they can become digital, the lighting can become
09:34:57 greater, and cutting down trees because if the angle
09:35:04 of a tree way below the billboard -- if the tree isn't

09:35:08 even covering it, but by the angle that it may be
09:35:14 further back you still cut the tree, you can't put it
09:35:17 there.
09:35:17 So, council, there are so many concerns.
09:35:19 We haven't even seen the CBS agreement.
09:35:23 That just came in.
09:35:23 I understand it was given to Mr. Johnson.
09:35:30 I don't know that.
09:35:32 It evidently came to him after we had another zoning
09:35:36 committee meeting just to try to see what we can do.
09:35:39 So, council, the outcome of that -- and we haven't
09:35:42 even been able to bring it back to T.H.A.N. because we
09:35:46 found out about this two days before the T.H.A.N.
09:35:48 meeting so we were -- the zoning committee was told to
09:35:51 please review this, come up with our concerns and try
09:35:54 to express it to you.
09:35:56 There are many, many issues that we feel if the sign
09:36:01 industry could even have a chance to listen to us that
09:36:03 they may have understood and done something about it.
09:36:06 But here it is now before you.
09:36:09 And please consider pulling it, not forever, but at
09:36:12 least to see if they won't consider some of our

09:36:15 concerns and do something about it.
09:36:17 And I will be staying for later for questions.
09:36:21 Thank you.
09:36:32 >> Curtis walker, 5229 Curtis Avenue.
09:36:35 I have a little U-Haul dealership about six blocks of
09:36:38 Gandy Boulevard, and I'm in jeopardy of losing my
09:36:42 business because in the city code there is a CG that
09:36:49 says you can't have rental trucks on CG property, and
09:36:54 it just been brought to the code enforcement about
09:36:57 seven months ago, we have been having extension after
09:37:00 extension.
09:37:00 The problem we are having it doesn't just affect me
09:37:02 corporately, there's about 12 to 13 other small
09:37:05 business truck rentals within the city limits that
09:37:08 have not been cited as of yet to figure out what's
09:37:12 going to happen before City Council.
09:37:14 The simple fact is it's not just U-Haul trucks.
09:37:18 There's a Home Depot on North Florida Avenue, 800
09:37:22 block, that's also in violation of rental trucks on CG
09:37:24 property.
09:37:25 So I'm here today just to ask you, I brought some
09:37:28 packets for you to look at.

09:37:30 I believe it's going to be brought up at the 10:30
09:37:34 hearing this morning.
09:37:35 I just want to let you know that if you pass this it
09:37:40 won't allow businesses to stay in business.
09:37:43 This is going to put out no less than 12 small
09:37:46 businesses within the city, and real quick, I have
09:37:49 been in my location four years.
09:37:51 I paid city taxes on the "you drive it" tax which is
09:37:57 for rental trucks, trailers.
09:37:59 I just paid my tax even though it's involved in all
09:38:02 this mess.
09:38:02 I still went ahead and paid my tax once again.
09:38:05 And I just want to ask City Council to look at this.
09:38:09 I am going to submit these packets to you, so you have
09:38:11 a chance to look at them.
09:38:13 There's benefits for this.
09:38:14 Environment environmentally, it makes sense.
09:38:17 Economically it makes sense, because even in my small
09:38:20 business, I have got one full-time employee, and I
09:38:23 have a part-time fellow that comes in and washes the
09:38:26 trucks, clean trucks.
09:38:28 I'll shut down.

09:38:28 If I lose my U-Haul business I will shut down.
09:38:31 I don't have a choice in the matter.
09:38:33 I just ask you to look at this information and make a
09:38:35 decision in that.
09:38:42 There's a packet I prepared for you, I have also
09:38:45 listed other locations that are at risk.
09:38:49 The locations that I have listed here is not a
09:38:51 comprehensive list.
09:38:52 There are other locations that could be on this list.
09:38:59 It's just not South MacDill's problem.
09:39:01 It's Hillsborough Avenue, Armenia, Swann, and the list
09:39:04 goes on and on.
09:39:05 So I guess the protocols to give it to the gentlemen
09:39:13 up there.
09:39:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The matter at 10:30 is not a public
09:39:17 hearing, it is a staff report.
09:39:22 It's a discussion by staff.
09:39:28 Okay no, problem.
09:39:29 Thank you.
09:39:30 Next speaker.
09:39:35 >>> Mr. Chairman, members of the council, good
09:39:38 morning.

09:39:38 I'm bill Jonson, I live in Clearwater, president of
09:39:43 citizens for scenic Florida.
09:39:45 Some of you know that I was on the City Council in
09:39:47 Clearwater for six years.
09:39:52 During those six years, we negotiated to two billboard
09:39:57 agreements.
09:39:58 Both of those allowed additional time for the
09:40:00 billboards to come down.
09:40:01 But they will come down.
09:40:07 We also defended against granite outdoor advertising.
09:40:10 They sued to overturn our sign code.
09:40:12 It took many years, much money, over $400,000 to win
09:40:18 that lawsuit with the eleventh circuit court of
09:40:21 appeal.
09:40:22 Lawsuits unfortunately are a part of this industry.
09:40:28 I've also monitored the state billboard legislation
09:40:31 and litigation for 20 years. With that background in
09:40:34 mind, I share a couple of comments.
09:40:37 One, I served with the code adoption process that you
09:40:42 are using, rather the agreement process that you are
09:40:44 using.
09:40:49 It's similar to what happened in Los Angeles where

09:40:51 they changed their sign codes significantly through a
09:40:56 settlement negotiation, instead of using the normal
09:40:59 process, they regret that, and I sent you a letter to
09:41:03 that effect.
09:41:05 Also, I note that in the fourth "whereas" of the
09:41:09 agreements, there's a wording that says clear channel
09:41:12 and CBS outdoor understood it had the right to
09:41:16 construct new off-site signs to replace signs it was
09:41:20 required to remove from the view corridors.
09:41:22 That despite the fact that the paragraph 2-B of the
09:41:27 '96 agreement says without right to substitute
09:41:30 alternative locations.
09:41:33 In 2002 Tampa fought hard for a provision of the Burt
09:41:38 Harris amendment to exclude removals of billboards on
09:41:43 view corridors from the special billboard compensation
09:41:47 requirement.
09:41:49 So it's questioning why you need this.
09:41:52 Digital billboards, the big elephant in this, they are
09:41:56 a safety distraction, they compound traffic
09:41:58 congestion, they change the character of your city,
09:42:02 they are allowed in historic areas, right next to a
09:42:07 historically designated structure, not on the same lot

09:42:10 but next door.
09:42:13 You have some wonderful historic buildings in this
09:42:15 city.
09:42:15 And I hope you won't allow that to occur.
09:42:20 Allowing them within 201 feet of a residential lot,
09:42:26 billboard companies up in Tallahassee have been
09:42:28 lobbying and say they need at least 350 feet of view
09:42:33 zone to the billboards.
09:42:35 So why would you allow -- basically you are putting
09:42:38 them in the residential area in the view zone of a
09:42:42 billboard.
09:42:43 Also, these are being allowed to change 50 times
09:42:48 faster than your code allows for on-premise changeable
09:42:52 signs.
09:42:55 There are uncertainties in the agreement which I
09:42:58 shared with Ms. Cole, and we haven't really had a
09:43:01 chance to go over them, but, for instance, the
09:43:03 definitions of sign faces versus sign structures.
09:43:06 (Bell sounds)
09:43:07 And with that, I just will share some pictures that
09:43:09 might be helpful to you when you come back to this
09:43:13 later in your agenda.

09:43:15 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:43:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:43:22 Next speaker.
09:43:28 >>MOSES KNOTT, JR.: I reside at 2902 East Ellicott
09:43:33 street three nights a week.
09:43:35 Then I just thank God for his grace and his mercy.
09:43:39 I want to speak on article 87, black history month.
09:43:47 Then I want top speak on article 2, the Moffitt cancer
09:43:52 center award you gave this morning.
09:43:53 And the first thing, it seems kind of funny, looking
09:43:59 on the TV getting this award this morning.
09:44:01 But if it wasn't for God and Moffitt cancer center, I
09:44:06 wouldn't be standing here.
09:44:07 1993 I went over to Tampa General Hospital and died.
09:44:10 Council, all through my body, all in my blood,
09:44:12 everywhere, and I went in there and died.
09:44:16 They told me I was going to die.
09:44:18 Gave it everything I had.
09:44:20 But I thank God.
09:44:22 You all hear me stand here and talk about God and
09:44:24 grace and mercy.
09:44:26 He brought me out of that hospital.

09:44:28 They expected me, coming in one day, I had everything
09:44:33 gone.
09:44:34 But God brought me out of there.
09:44:36 And then sisters in law, it went through her brain,
09:44:47 hit her brain.
09:44:52 Got a radiation machine, they can put you down, they
09:44:55 take the machine, and knocked those tumors out of my
09:45:01 sister's brain.
09:45:02 I told her don't give up.
09:45:03 Tell a lot of sick peoples.
09:45:05 When God heals, he heals people everywhere.
09:45:10 But they have to believe in God.
09:45:12 See, I talk about prayer all the time.
09:45:14 Prayer is know good unless you believe in prayer.
09:45:17 The reverend can tell you that.
09:45:22 If you don't believe in prayer, the windows will fall
09:45:27 out.
09:45:27 Black history month.
09:45:28 You hear me talk about prayer all the time.
09:45:31 That's all we have.
09:45:32 Faith in God.
09:45:33 We went to jail.

09:45:34 We had to pray, let the peoples go.
09:45:37 Everybody is moaning around the bed.
09:45:39 God raised them up from the dead all through the
09:45:42 Bible.
09:45:43 You can hear all those -- heal all those people.
09:45:46 But back in them days, you know, I'm going to go
09:45:50 somewhere now.
09:45:56 Black poem don't believe in marriage no more anyhow.
09:45:59 You know, it so sad.
09:46:00 Shacking, do everything.
09:46:02 Now people get on the airplane and fly thousands of
09:46:07 miles away to get married.
09:46:10 And now we allow it.
09:46:12 Thank you.
09:46:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
09:46:13 Next speaker.
09:46:15 >> Chip Thomas, 1219 east Henry Avenue.
09:46:19 And I came in to suggest two ways to cut expenses and
09:46:22 save some money.
09:46:25 As the state's budget problems intensify, so will
09:46:28 yours.
09:46:29 And procrastination in Tallahassee isn't going to make

09:46:34 anything easier.
09:46:34 You are looking at a major headache next year.
09:46:36 Number one, suspend all mowing and watering now of
09:46:41 city properties.
09:46:43 Plants and grass are dormant.
09:46:45 They go to sleep this time of year and they really
09:46:47 don't wake up until mid February.
09:46:49 It's silly to be watering.
09:46:53 Grass doesn't need to be mowed, it doesn't want to be
09:46:56 watered, and you can take the employees involved and
09:46:59 put them to work in other areas.
09:47:03 It doesn't mean they lost their jobs or cutting hours.
09:47:05 The city is probably not the cleanest one out there,
09:47:08 and that would be one place that the time could be
09:47:10 better spent.
09:47:12 Number two, weekly yard waste pickup is nice and it's
09:47:17 convenient, but how efficient is it to have these big
09:47:19 old trucks driving all over town doing what residents
09:47:23 can and should do themselves in their own yards?
09:47:28 Those vehicles, the way they drive, stop and go,
09:47:30 probably get six miles a gallon.
09:47:33 I know we already own most of the equipment, so the

09:47:36 savings may not be huge, but you are reducing traffic,
09:47:42 wear and tear on roads, and saving some resources, and
09:47:45 again you don't have to cut any jobs or hours.
09:47:48 Take those employees involved and put them to use in
09:47:51 other areas.
09:47:52 As one voice, I know it's easy to ignore me, and I
09:47:57 won't be surprised to hear thank you, next speaker,
09:48:01 and end of story.
09:48:02 But the whole hope is that one of you will hear the
09:48:06 logic behind these suggestions and have a sense of
09:48:10 urgency, to be problem active in cutting money
09:48:13 wherever we can now and keep the conversation going
09:48:17 maybe today.
09:48:18 Thanks for your time.
09:48:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Thomas, have you forwarded any of
09:48:23 those recommendations over to the administration?
09:48:25 Because we as council don't have any control over
09:48:28 administration and employees.
09:48:31 All that's through the mayor's office.
09:48:34 >> I wasn't aware of that.
09:48:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:48:40 I agree with what you said.

09:48:43 My lawn hasn't been cut in two months.
09:48:46 It's better not to cut it than to cut it because with
09:48:49 when the cold weather comes the roots are protected by
09:48:51 the taller grass.
09:48:54 And I don't Watt water my lawn.
09:48:57 I turn in my water bill every month so that people can
09:48:59 understand, so that it starts the Domino effect to
09:49:03 what you are saying.
09:49:04 So I appreciate you saying that.
09:49:06 But like the chairman just said, I would urge you to
09:49:09 present those to the administration.
09:49:15k you, sir.
09:49:16 Next speaker.
09:49:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:49:20 Later we can make a recommendation.
09:49:22 >>> Peter Murphy, one of the brokers with home
09:49:25 encounter, a local real estate consultancy.
09:49:28 The neighborhood stabilization program is something we
09:49:30 have assigned a small group of our staff to analyze
09:49:32 and look at for the City of Tampa as well as the
09:49:34 surrounding counties.
09:49:35 And we are enthusiastically supportive of the work you

09:49:39 are doing for it.
09:49:40 But we do have a couple of concerns as we sat and
09:49:42 listened to the mayor's presentation as well as the
09:49:44 councilwoman's presentation last week.
09:49:47 And our concerns are expectations of the city may in
09:49:50 fact be a little low in terms of what you can actually
09:49:52 accomplish with the neighborhood stabilization program
09:49:55 dollars.
09:49:56 The sector currently does exactly what the
09:49:59 neighborhood stabilization program is requesting to do
09:50:01 for private investors all the time, acquiring
09:50:04 properties, restoring them, demolishing them where
09:50:06 necessary and rebuilding, managing tenants and
09:50:09 eventually selling.
09:50:09 This is common practice in the private sector and we
09:50:12 do it with the private investors all the time.
09:50:16 Currently in this market we are will go at dollar
09:50:17 amounts that are almost 50% of what the city has
09:50:20 indicated it will cost to do this very thing.
09:50:22 For example, the City of Tampa has indicated they'll
09:50:25 spend about $100,000 per property in the neighborhood
09:50:28 stabilization program to acquire a total of about 130

09:50:32 properties or spend $13 million.
09:50:34 We believe that estimate could be as much as 50% short
09:50:37 of what the actually be accomplished based on today's
09:50:41 value of properties.
09:50:42 And so we strongly encourage you to embrace the
09:50:44 private sector, the information that firms like ours
09:50:47 have to help you make a smart buying decision on these
09:50:50 properties, to restore them for appropriate costs, to
09:50:53 manage them effectively and to sell them at the right
09:50:55 time for the right price so that we can make this the
09:50:57 best possible investment for the city.
09:50:59 We have prepared a couple of documents.
09:51:00 I'll present them to Mr. Shelby for your review.
09:51:03 If you have any questions I encourage you to contact
09:51:05 us.
09:51:05 Thank you.
09:51:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:51:11 Anyone else wish to address council?
09:51:13 You had a question for somebody.
09:51:22 >> Let's move on.
09:51:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So that will conclude our public
09:51:29 comment section for this morning.

09:51:30 Anyone wish to address council in terms of
09:51:33 reconsideration of a legislative matter?
09:51:36 Anyone wish to address council on a question of
09:51:40 reconsideration of legislative matter? We will move
09:51:42 the ordinance presented for first reading, a
09:51:45 substitute on ordinance number 3.
09:51:47 Mr. Miranda.
09:51:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:51:56 I move an ordinance for first reading, a substitute
09:51:59 ordinance, an ordinance correcting a scrivener's
09:52:01 error, ordinance number 2008-155, passed discontinuing
09:52:08 abandonment of certain rights-of-way contained within
09:52:11 the proposed Cargo Road extension and air cargo
09:52:14 facilities development area, amending said ordinances
09:52:18 to correct a scrivener's error by changing section 2-C
09:52:21 in part by removing the last paragraph relating to
09:52:24 termination of the permanent water easement, providing
09:52:27 for severability, providing an effective date.
09:52:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
09:52:32 Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:52:36 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:52:38 >>THE CLERK: Second reading and adoption will be held

09:52:43 on December 4th at 9:30 in the morning.
09:52:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Number 4.
09:52:47 Councilwoman Miller.
09:52:53 >>CHAIRMAN: Told hill 10:30.
09:52:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We move to our committee reports.
09:52:56 Public Safety Committee, Councilwoman Miller.
09:52:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Move resolutions 5 through 18.
09:53:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:53:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:53:08 Okay.
09:53:09 Parks and recreation.
09:53:10 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:53:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like to move resolutions 19
09:53:20 through 26.
09:53:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Hold 22, 23.
09:53:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Some of them have been pulled by
09:53:27 councilman Dingfelder.
09:53:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Right.
09:53:29 Okay.
09:53:29 I would like to move 19 through 21 and 24 through 26.
09:53:40 And before we vote I want to give an eyewitness
09:53:43 account for visiting the site.

09:53:44 I went to meet with the people who are constructing
09:53:46 Kiley Gardens.
09:53:47 I wanted to see what was going on and I am full of
09:53:51 compliments for the construction people and the
09:53:53 administration.
09:53:53 They were using this new material to prevent leaking
09:53:56 into the garage which will allow the reintroduction of
09:54:01 trees and it has a 30-year warranty which is pretty
09:54:04 amazing for waterproof material.
09:54:06 And it will allow the trees to be put in not in
09:54:10 containers, which our staff had anticipated, but
09:54:13 anywhere where there's dirt and it will be deep enough
09:54:16 that it will be 40 inches so we can have pretty good
09:54:23 sized trees.
09:54:23 And the only thing that isn't -- and they are
09:54:26 replicating, you know, reintroducing the concrete
09:54:29 elements. The only thing we haven't done is come up
09:54:39 with the money to reintroduce the tree elements, and
09:54:40 the water features will be able to be reintroduced in
09:54:44 the future if there's money, so this is what I am
09:54:47 hoping for in terms of the ability in the future with
09:54:47 additional funding to recreate the park in its glory.

09:54:51 The bad news is we don't have money now for the trees.
09:54:54 But what I would like to ask the administration to do
09:54:57 is to tell us what the trees will cost which will be
09:55:00 pretty simple to sort of ballpark price per unit,
09:55:03 number of units, so that sometime in the future should
09:55:06 there be the resources, either in the private sector
09:55:09 or public sector we could reintroduce the trees which
09:55:13 are a critical part of the design.
09:55:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If I could, Mr. Chairman.
09:55:19 Linda, periodically, we see 100,000 here, 100,000
09:55:25 there from the tree fund going out to repopulate trees
09:55:28 on Dale Mabry or trees on Boy Scout or what have you.
09:55:31 So I would take a look at that tree fund the next time
09:55:33 you have that discussion with staff.
09:55:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excellent suggestion.
09:55:40 >> There's a motion on the floor.
09:55:46 Moved and seconded.
09:55:47 All in favor signify by Aye.
09:55:50 Let me also say, you should have had a -- should have
09:55:54 received a memo from me as to the museum and the MBE
09:55:59 percentage of break down and all that.
09:56:01 So you all get a copy of that.

09:56:06 Thank you.
09:56:07 Public works.
09:56:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move items 27 through 30 and 33
09:56:15 through 33.
09:56:19 35, excuse me.
09:56:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:56:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:56:24 (Motion carried)
09:56:26 Okay.
09:56:27 Councilwoman Mary Mulhern, Finance Committee.
09:56:31 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 36 and 37, and items 39
09:56:35 through 41.
09:56:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:56:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:56:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:56:47 Building, zoning.
09:56:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Didn't remove 38.
09:56:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We made a motion when we said changes
09:57:01 to the agenda.
09:57:02 We voted under the changes, require to be pulled.
09:57:05 And take off the agenda.
09:57:08 That doesn't include that.

09:57:12 I just want to be clear.
09:57:14 I just want to be clear.
09:57:15 Because that is my understanding when you make changes
09:57:17 to the agenda and that was part of it.
09:57:19 Once you make that motion it includes that.
09:57:20 So I stand to be corrected, that's all I'm saying.
09:57:23 Okay?
09:57:24 All right.
09:57:25 Building and zoning.
09:57:26 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I want to move items 42 to 66,
09:57:32 removing 48, 49, and 42.
09:57:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 42?
09:57:46 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: 42 was removed, wasn't it?
09:57:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
09:57:51 48 and 49.
09:57:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:57:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to comment on some
09:58:01 components of this that I think are extremely
09:58:03 positive.
09:58:03 If we look at 44, 45, 46 and 47, we are looking at
09:58:12 loans from the interstate historic preservation trust
09:58:15 fund.

09:58:16 And that's really exactly what the fund was created to
09:58:20 do was to allow people to rehab their properties in
09:58:23 historic areas adjacent to the interstate.
09:58:26 And it took us a long time to get this program up and
09:58:29 running.
09:58:29 And it's now successful, we are lending money, people
09:58:33 are fixing up their homes and I hope that the $100,000
09:58:37 that we set aside in the downtown CRA for historic
09:58:40 property owners to use for revolving loan fund gets up
09:58:43 and running quickly because we can see what an
09:58:45 improvement these loans will make in our historic
09:58:47 area.
09:58:47 This is great stuff.
09:58:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
09:58:51 (Motion carried)
09:58:59 We need to move now items --
09:59:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Transportation.
09:59:11 I'll move 67 through 76.
09:59:16 >> Second.
09:59:16 (Motion carried).
09:59:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 69 and 40th Street, $3 million coming
09:59:26 from the county, for 40th Street.

09:59:30 From local gas tax.
09:59:32 So that project is moving forward.
09:59:35 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to set public hearings for
09:59:38 items 77 and 78.
09:59:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
09:59:41 (Motion carried).
09:59:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Now public hearings, second reading,
09:59:46 proposed ordinance, item 79.
09:59:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open.
09:59:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:59:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here who wishes to address
09:59:57 council on item 79?
09:59:59 Anyone wishing to address council?
10:00:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:00:05 >> Second.
10:00:06 (Motion carried).
10:00:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What is it?
10:00:11 >> Second reading.
10:00:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yeah, what is it?
10:00:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Changing the process for
10:00:18 administrative appeals.
10:00:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's on for second reading.

10:00:24 Do you want to read that, John?
10:00:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do we have a vote from last time?
10:00:30 I'll be glad to read it.
10:00:31 An ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida section
10:00:35 1-19 of the City of Tampa code providing for repeal of
10:00:38 all ordinances in conflict, providing for
10:00:40 severability, providing an effective date.
10:00:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your votes.
10:00:43 Moved and seconded.
10:00:44 Record your vote.
10:00:54 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried westbound Miranda being
10:00:55 absent.
10:00:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On items 80 to 83.
10:01:02 >> So moved.
10:01:02 >> Second.
10:01:03 (Motion carried).
10:01:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wishing to address council on
10:01:05 item 80?
10:01:07 >> Need to be sworn in.
10:01:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
10:01:09 Anyone that's going to be speaking to council on any
10:01:11 of these items, 80 through 83, will you please stand

10:01:20 and be sworn in?
10:01:21 If you are going to speak on 80 through 83.
10:01:23 Please stand and be sworn.
10:01:24 Okay.
10:01:26 Motion on 80.
10:01:35 >> Move to close.
10:01:36 >> Second.
10:01:37 (Motion carried).
10:01:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Ordinance for second reading, an
10:01:41 ordinance amending 2008-138, passed and ordained by
10:01:45 the City Council of the city of Tampa, Florida on
10:01:48 August 21, 2008 correcting a scrivener's error by
10:01:52 amending a development order for the Westshore area
10:01:54 wide DRI by attaching exhibit "A," NOPC, providing for
10:01:59 severability, providing an effective date.
10:02:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:02:02 Record your vote, please.
10:02:10 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.
10:02:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 81.
10:02:14 This is a public hearing.
10:02:15 Anyone wishing to address council?
10:02:17 Okay.

10:02:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:02:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:02:20 (Motion carried).
10:02:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena, 81.
10:02:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like to move an ordinance for
10:02:29 adoption, second reading and adoption, an ordinance
10:02:32 authorizing the installation and maintenance of
10:02:34 encroachments, proposed decorative awning, canopy
10:02:38 overhang, by Old Hyde Park properties LTD partnership,
10:02:45 care of MW Hyde Park LLC, over a portion of the
10:02:49 right-of-way known as West Swann Avenue and south
10:02:53 Oregon Avenue as more particularly described herein
10:02:55 subject to certain terms, covenants, conditions and
10:02:57 agreements as more particularly described herein
10:03:00 providing an effective date.
10:03:02 >> Been moved and seconded.
10:03:03 Record your vote, please.
10:03:14 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:03:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 82.
10:03:17 Anyone wishing address council?
10:03:20 >> Move to close.
10:03:21 >> Second.

10:03:21 (Motion carried).
10:03:22 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: On that ordinance can I get some
10:03:24 backup material?
10:03:25 I think that's in my district, commerce palms drive.
10:03:29 Does anyone know anything about it?
10:03:32 >> Item 82?
10:03:34 >> It was unanimous.
10:03:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is second reading.
10:03:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Looks like a scrivener's error.
10:03:41 Substituting an exhibit.
10:03:44 It's a substitute of exhibit "A" for incorrect exhibit
10:03:47 "A."
10:03:47 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
10:03:48 Yes, this is a previously approved wet zoning and this
10:03:53 will just be substituting the exhibit "A" because
10:03:55 apparently there was some confusion as to the correct
10:03:58 exhibit "A" so that's being substituted.
10:04:02 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Is it an office building?
10:04:05 >>JULIA COLE: I sure don't know.
10:04:08 I could try to find that out and get back with you
10:04:11 just to let you know.
10:04:14 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, could we come back

10:04:19 with some information?
10:04:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is that recorded already?
10:04:24 Number 82?
10:04:26 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Number 82.
10:04:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's not closed.
10:04:30 >>JULIA COLE: Rebecca Kert.
10:04:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll move to 83.
10:04:34 Anyone wishing to address council on 83?
10:04:37 Motion to close.
10:04:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me, before we do that.
10:04:41 The gentleman who came in here earlier, his concern
10:04:45 about parking trucks --
10:04:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's a different item.
10:04:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I wanted to make sure we weren't
10:04:52 addressing that.
10:04:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:04:54 >> Second.
10:04:55 (Motion carried).
10:04:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:04:58 Mr. Caetano, read 83.
10:05:03 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance for second reading,
10:05:06 an ordinance amending 2008-173 passed and ordained by

10:05:10 the City Council of the City of Tampa on October 2,
10:05:13 2008, correcting a scrivener's error by amending the
10:05:16 zoning district classifications from PD planned
10:05:19 development, business/professional office, walk-in
10:05:22 bank, medical office, pharmacy, specialty retail,
10:05:26 residential, to PD, planned development,
10:05:28 business/professional office, walk-in bank medical
10:05:33 office, pharmacy, specialty retail, residential,
10:05:37 school, business, trade, vocational, college,
10:05:41 university, for the correct zoning district
10:05:44 classifications of PD, planned development, business
10:05:48 and professional office, walk-in bank, medical office,
10:05:51 pharmacy, specialty retail, residential, and RS-50,
10:05:55 residential single-family, to PD, planned development,
10:05:58 business/professional office, walk-in bank medical
10:06:03 office, pharmacy, specialty retail, residential,
10:06:06 school, business, trade, vocational, college,
10:06:08 university, providing for severability, providing an
10:06:10 effective date.
10:06:14 >> Second.
10:06:17 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Do you think there's anything we
10:06:18 left out of that thing?

10:06:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I missed it, would you read it
10:06:22 again?
10:06:23 [ Laughter ]
10:06:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion and seconded by councilman
10:06:26 Miranda.
10:06:27 Record your vote, please.
10:06:32 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:06:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to open item 84.
10:06:39 Okay, it was continued, okay.
10:06:44 84.
10:06:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Doesn't have to be opened because it
10:06:49 was a previously continued public hearing.
10:06:55 >>> Good morning, council.
10:06:56 This was continued.
10:06:57 This is the first reading of comprehensive changes to
10:07:03 chapter 9 of the Tampa city code regarding Code
10:07:06 Enforcement Board.
10:07:08 I told you back on October 30th, and I'll review
10:07:11 again what I told you this is all about.
10:07:13 This is really clean-up and some substantive changes,
10:07:18 move some things around that had some renumbering.
10:07:20 I think there was no section that didn't get touched

10:07:23 in here.
10:07:26 That's why it's comprehensive changes.
10:07:27 One of the first changes on here that you will notice
10:07:30 is that presently chapter 9 speaks in terms of special
10:07:34 masters.
10:07:36 And I'll change that to special magistrates, because
10:07:39 the Florida statutes chapter 162 that gives us the
10:07:44 authority to have Code Enforcement Boards and special
10:07:47 imagine strays use it is term special magistrate, so I
10:07:50 want to be consistent with the statute.
10:07:54 The most noticeable change, and I think the change
10:07:57 that caught a lot of people's attention, was when I
10:07:59 moved the special magistrates deal with the power and
10:08:10 authority of the board, I made it clear that the
10:08:14 special magistrates and the Code Enforcement Board had
10:08:16 the same powers.
10:08:17 That's really not a substantive change.
10:08:20 It's just written differently now.
10:08:24 Chapter 9 speaks in terms of the Code Enforcement
10:08:26 Board has the power and authority to do this but if
10:08:29 you look at chapter 9-7 it says, the way it reads,
10:08:33 that the special master shall have the same power and

10:08:36 authority as of the boards.
10:08:38 All I did was retool it to make it more clear.
10:08:44 An area that I do need some guidance from council on
10:08:47 is on section 9-3 regarding repeat violations.
10:08:52 As it reads now, the look-back period on repeat
10:08:56 violation is five years.
10:08:57 When you guys passed the civil citation ordinance you
10:09:04 made that a three-year look-back period rant be
10:09:08 five-year look-back period.
10:09:10 The way I'm proposing it is change that to a
10:09:13 three-year look-back period that's consistent with the
10:09:15 civil citation.
10:09:17 If that's the way you want to go that's the way I
10:09:19 changed to the read and I just want to know if that's
10:09:22 the way you want to go with it or leave it at the
10:09:24 five-year period.
10:09:25 But I think enforcementwise from the department, it
10:09:29 would be consistent to be throw years.
10:09:30 >>GWEN MILLER: I think we need to leave that at three
10:09:32 years so it will be consistent.
10:09:35 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Thank you.
10:09:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?

10:09:39 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Some of the other changes I made
10:09:41 that were more of a clean-up is the way it's presently
10:09:45 written there were a lot of important things in a
10:09:48 large paragraph and I tried to break those out so that
10:09:50 each paragraph would be talking about one important
10:09:52 provision.
10:09:54 There are two new provisions.
10:09:56 They are in sections 9-16 and 9-17.
10:10:01 They are both on page 18 of the ordinance, if you have
10:10:04 it in front of you.
10:10:05 In 9-16 allows the board or the special magistrate to
10:10:09 set aside an order in certain circumstances.
10:10:13 Sometimes we may be providing going forward with a
10:10:16 case, and we don't find out, for example, that perhaps
10:10:20 the property own o'er, the violator is deployed on
10:10:24 active duty somewhere.
10:10:25 We find that out after the fact.
10:10:27 We need to have a way of setting that order aside
10:10:30 because we cannot proceed against that violator if
10:10:32 he's deployed in the military.
10:10:38 9-17 really, what I did was codify what's already in
10:10:44 the orders.

10:10:45 That codifies when the board loses jurisdiction.
10:10:50 That is the board loses jurisdiction 90 days after the
10:10:54 deadline top bring the property into compliance.
10:10:56 I just wanted to have that in the ordinance more so
10:10:58 than in the order itself.
10:11:01 What it also allows is if the board wants to retain
10:11:04 jurisdiction on a particular case, it allows him to
10:11:08 retain jurisdiction for an additional 90 days, give
10:11:11 him jurisdiction at the most 180 days after deadline
10:11:15 to come into compliance.
10:11:23 Another change in 9-7-A-5 which is on page 7.
10:11:28 It clarifies that the board or special magistrate
10:11:30 cannot enter an order that would direct that action be
10:11:34 taken that would violate a section of the code.
10:11:38 I wanted to make that clear in there.
10:11:40 Section 9-9, another change that makes it clear what
10:11:43 occur ifs there's a tie vote with the board.
10:11:47 And the last change I'll mention to you is actually
10:11:50 changed the title of chapter 9 from Code Enforcement
10:11:53 Board to code enforcement.
10:12:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Very good.
10:12:05 >>ERNEST MUELLER: I'm here for questions.

10:12:06 Otherwise it's here for first reading.
10:12:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's a public hearing.
10:12:11 Does anyone wish to address council on item 84?
10:12:17 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 south Sherill.
10:12:21 We did have them come to our T.H.A.N. meeting.
10:12:25 We had a full presentation by Mr. Slater, and Mr.
10:12:31 Mueller.
10:12:32 Sorry, I always forget your name.
10:12:35 On this issue.
10:12:36 And we were very supportive of it and we are looking
10:12:40 forward to particular parts of this coming into
10:12:42 existence.
10:12:43 And only yesterday were we able to clarify with them
10:12:47 that neighborhood signs are legal as long as they
10:12:51 follow the rules.
10:12:54 It's under government signs.
10:12:55 There was a big commotion.
10:12:57 Neighborhood signs, as you know, are being picked up
10:13:00 and it was because clean city and code enforcement did
10:13:03 not realize that there's a section 7, and I don't
10:13:10 remember all the other breakdowns but goes to
10:13:12 government signs and way down at the bottom it says,

10:13:15 any recognized neighborhood association signs which
10:13:20 rules how long they can be left up.
10:13:22 I just wanted to put that on the record for all of the
10:13:25 other neighborhoods.
10:13:26 I know that I got called back from Mr. Pinkney's
10:13:31 office yesterday saying that they were notified.
10:13:33 And I talked to Kevin AMOS who said they are now
10:13:37 hopefully no more neighborhood signs are going to be
10:13:39 picked up, and they are trying to retrieve some of the
10:13:43 neighborhood signs that were picked up.
10:13:46 So this is all in this same ordinance.
10:13:50 And I hope it wasn't removed because we got it put in
10:13:53 there long ago and I'm sure it has not been.
10:13:56 But thank you.
10:14:02 >>> I received some calls yesterday from Al Steenson
10:14:06 regarding the neighborhood sign issue.
10:14:08 When you amended your sign code recently, a couple
10:14:11 years ago, you had a provision in there for these
10:14:14 neighborhood -- community information signs that
10:14:16 are -- they are allowed to be up under our code
10:14:21 provisions.
10:14:21 I haven't had the opportunity to communicate back to

10:14:24 Mr. Steenson nor to communicate to clean city, and I
10:14:29 will go ahead and make sure that communicate does
10:14:31 happen.
10:14:32 But Ms. Vizzi right about that issue and that issue
10:14:36 needs to be resolved.
10:14:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:14:37 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I just received a copy of this
10:14:40 proposed change.
10:14:41 I understand it's first reading.
10:14:43 And I'll be reviewing that and getting back to you in
10:14:46 a memorandum if there's anything in there that
10:14:48 concerns my clients.
10:14:50 I appreciate your time.
10:14:51 Thanks.
10:14:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
10:14:58 >>MOSES KNOTT, JR.: I row side at 2902 East Ellicott
10:15:03 street.
10:15:03 You know, you all started this same thing about three
10:15:06 or four years ago, and you started in my part of town.
10:15:11 And, you know, I was sitting back there awhile ago,
10:15:14 looking at you all, and thanking you and praying.
10:15:21 You all going to get peoples jobs.

10:15:23 Now, I mean, some of you, poor peoples put them out of
10:15:31 business, talking about the truck thing, these people
10:15:34 make their living renting trucks out and everything.
10:15:36 I mean, they got automobile people, trying to get $25
10:15:41 billion top stay in business.
10:15:42 But now the poor peoples are trying to make three or
10:15:48 four dollars to save our homes.
10:15:50 These people buying a home.
10:15:51 You all sit there and pass a law using your power,
10:15:57 knocking people out of a job already.
10:15:58 But when you all got this now, politicians say, I'm
10:16:04 going to bring some jobs to Tampa, I'm going to bring
10:16:06 some jobs to Tampa, and come out and use the code
10:16:09 enforcement, anything you can to put somebody out of
10:16:11 business.
10:16:12 Now I'm telling you, I believe in God and I'm going to
10:16:15 tell you the truth, there's some hard times outs
10:16:20 there. You all don't know how hard it is.
10:16:24 When it get cold people sleeping in their cars, women
10:16:28 and children sleeping in cars.
10:16:29 Nobody safe.
10:16:30 Homeless.

10:16:32 Announce that all the moneys to pay your light bill,
10:16:35 now the money gone.
10:16:38 Hillsborough County, the money is gone.
10:16:41 People suffering in cold houses.
10:16:44 A man come in here.
10:16:46 And tell you what to do about stop raising that you
10:16:50 are light bill.
10:16:51 And just yesterday, they all their money gone.
10:16:57 But every last one of you all, when you all got that
10:17:02 job, you say I'm going to bring some jobs to town, and
10:17:05 use prosperity and build this town up and everything.
10:17:08 And like the president when he got elected, he said
10:17:12 I'm going to start in the middle.
10:17:14 All the politicians never start in the middle.
10:17:17 It always start from the top and work their way down.
10:17:20 By the time they get to the poor everything is gone.
10:17:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Knott.
10:17:27 Just one clarification, though.
10:17:30 I think, though, the things that we have tried to
10:17:34 address code enforcement are legal and signs, not in
10:17:39 conformance with city code.
10:17:41 That is my understanding.

10:17:43 So I think council, also, talked about the important
10:17:47 economic development for the community.
10:17:48 So council is working very hard to ensure economic
10:17:52 development and job opportunity in the community.
10:17:54 So I just want to correct that.
10:17:56 Okay.
10:17:58 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Mr. Chair, if I could just clarify
10:18:00 the chapter 9 changes does not address anything the
10:18:05 sign code.
10:18:05 It will only -- it has a tangential connection with
10:18:09 the enforcement of any violation.
10:18:11 I just wanted you to be clear.
10:18:15 Going for first reading here does not address any sign
10:18:17 issues.
10:18:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close?
10:18:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
10:18:21 >> Second.
10:18:21 (Motion carried).
10:18:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
10:18:25 Councilwoman Mulhern, number 84.
10:18:29 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented
10:18:32 for first reading consideration, an ordinance of the

10:18:34 city of Tampa, Florida changing the title of chapter
10:18:37 9, City of Tampa code of ordinances, making
10:18:40 comprehensive revisions to chapter 9 City of Tampa
10:18:43 code of ordinances, repealing all ordinances or parts
10:18:46 of ordinances in conflict therewith, providing an
10:18:48 effective date.
10:18:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:18:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Been moved and seconded by
10:18:53 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:18:55 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:18:58 Go back to item 82.
10:19:00 >> Second reading and adoption will be on December
10:19:07 4th at 9:30.
10:19:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
10:19:11 >> Thank you very much, be Mr. Chairman.
10:19:14 That was given to me, a CBS out there. Officer Miller
10:19:17 went out there and said everything was all right.
10:19:19 An ordinance presented for second read being, amending
10:19:22 ordinance 2008-149 passed and ordained by the City
10:19:26 Council of the City of Tampa on September 4, 2008,
10:19:29 which approved a wet zoning 2(APS) for 6206 commerce
10:19:34 palms drive by substituting the correct exhibit "A"

10:19:38 for the incorrect exhibit "A" that was supplied in
10:19:42 error, providing for severability, providing an
10:19:44 effective date.
10:19:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion made by Councilwoman Caetano,
10:19:50 seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:19:53 Record your vote, please.
10:19:56 >> 82.
10:19:59 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.
10:20:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open 86 and 85.
10:20:17 (Motion carried).
10:20:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wishing to address council on
10:20:20 item 85?
10:20:22 >>> My name is Kathy Ginster, city attorney to the
10:20:29 brownfield program here today on both items 85 and 86.
10:20:33 These are the public hearings scheduled before
10:20:37 council.
10:20:37 You are not required to do anything today.
10:20:40 And both applicants in 85 and 86 are applying for
10:20:48 brownfield property to be designated for financial
10:20:52 incentives to reimburse them for cleaning up
10:20:57 abandoned, environmentally contaminated property.
10:21:00 And so the plan is on file with the city clerk's

10:21:06 office, if anyone would care to take a look at the
10:21:08 proposed development.
10:21:09 It's available.
10:21:10 And the second public hearing which you will be asked
10:21:12 to approve the designation is scheduled for the
10:21:15 evening of December 11th at 5:30 o'clock p.m.
10:21:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The second public hearing will be
10:21:22 December 11 and 5:30.
10:21:24 Okay.
10:21:24 Anyone wishing to address council on item 85 or 86?
10:21:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
10:21:31 >> Second.
10:21:32 (Motion carried).
10:21:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:21:42 Thank you very much.
10:21:47 We still have a couple minutes before our 10:30 time
10:21:50 certain, about five minutes.
10:21:52 Do you want to take up new business?
10:21:54 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to bring up new business.
10:21:56 We need to set a CRA meeting for December 2nd at
10:22:00 8:45 a.m.
10:22:01 >> December 2nd?

10:22:05 >>GWEN MILLER: I'm sorry, December 4th at 8:45
10:22:07 a.m.
10:22:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:22:09 (Motion carried)
10:22:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have one, Mr. Chair.
10:22:19 I was looking for our January calendar.
10:22:33 On January 22nd, our regular meeting under staff
10:22:37 reports, I do a lot of driving up and down Sligh and
10:22:47 Brorein going from South Tampa to downtown, and as I
10:22:50 was driving the other day I saw some bicyclists coming
10:22:54 up which one comes downtown, Platt Street.
10:23:00 And I notice there's really no safe place for them to
10:23:05 ride.
10:23:07 And although it's a very wide street, you know, we
10:23:10 have three lanes for traffic, there's pretty much no
10:23:13 parking along the whole thing, and the right-hand lane
10:23:16 on Platt is extra wide, probably because there was
10:23:21 originally parking along there.
10:23:23 Bottom line is I think it would be very, very
10:23:25 inexpensive and very, very progressive of us if we
10:23:28 looked into striping bike lanes on Platt and Brorein.
10:23:37 And I inquired with gin A over in the planning

10:23:44 department and she said they looked at it in the past
10:23:46 and sort of ran into dead-ends with regard to the city
10:23:49 because I don't think it's part of the State Road.
10:23:51 So, anyway, with that, sort of long winded, but I
10:23:54 would like to get a staff report on the feasibility
10:23:56 and cost of putting in bike lanes along the Platt and
10:24:03 Brorein corridor pretty much from Soho to downtown, on
10:24:09 January 22nd, 10:30 during staff reports.
10:24:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:24:15 And I would like to ask --
10:24:21 Councilwoman.
10:24:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Platt Street, I think we have a lot of
10:24:26 consideration as far as being a livable roadway, and
10:24:31 maybe we could talk about it in general, because I
10:24:34 know -- I don't remember anything ever going any
10:24:37 further that you might remind me if it had, as far as
10:24:41 the parking in Soho, because one of the other
10:24:44 considerations was everything on-street parking and
10:24:50 maybe we could talk about it in more general terms.
10:24:54 It's a great idea to possibly have bike lanes there.
10:24:58 But on the MPO's livable roadways committee, we met
10:25:04 yesterday, and part of the discussion, and Gina Torres

10:25:07 was involved in that, was the question of bike lanes
10:25:13 are necessarily the safest approach as opposed to a
10:25:16 shared lane.
10:25:20 Kind of a bigger discussion but I think I think it's
10:25:23 great to have it.
10:25:26 >> Second.
10:25:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If I could answer your question
10:25:29 real quick.
10:25:30 I'm sorry, Mrs. Saul-Sena.
10:25:33 Jim from park gave me this map that I'll send down
10:25:36 related to the proposed Soho parking plan which we are
10:25:38 going to be addressing in a minute.
10:25:40 But it shows -- it doesn't show any changes on Platt
10:25:43 and Cleveland as it comes through Soho.
10:25:46 They are not suggesting any parking.
10:25:48 As a matter of fact, they are suggesting continuing
10:25:51 all no parking on the five or six blocks of this plan,
10:25:57 which we don't need to get into right now, but I'll
10:26:01 pass this down.
10:26:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Dingfelder, years ago when we
10:26:07 did the Kennedy Boulevard plan and Kennedy as a
10:26:11 transportation corridor, we identified that Kennedy

10:26:14 Boulevard is not a good place for bicyclists, and
10:26:17 actually the Cleveland Platt, making an east-west run
10:26:27 from downtown to Westshore, and I thought that we were
10:26:29 supposed to be pursuing this.
10:26:30 So this is very appropriate.
10:26:32 But also yesterday at livable roadways, somebody
10:26:35 brought up Himes Avenue, north of Kennedy, Himes from
10:26:41 Kennedy to Columbus drive has just been repaved,
10:26:44 restriped, it's in great shape, but the question was
10:26:46 raised, why didn't we add bike lanes on Himes as
10:26:52 opposed to Dale Mabry, which is definitely not bicycle
10:26:54 friendly, Himes has the width and would be a safer
10:26:57 choice.
10:26:58 I see Mr. Daignault in the audience, which is great,
10:27:00 because I'm sure it will come under public works.
10:27:03 I wasn't exactly sure who to call.
10:27:05 So yesterday I called Irv Lee with a question on
10:27:08 Himes.
10:27:10 I would like to add Himes to the list.
10:27:12 But what I'm thinking is, it might be appropriate, not
10:27:14 at this moment but when we get some feedback, for
10:27:17 council to consider policy that when we restripe

10:27:21 roads, that our good alternative to even busier roads
10:27:27 for commercial traffic, that we consider bike lanes as
10:27:31 part of the thinking of the transportation department,
10:27:35 that they will just de facto put in bike lanes, unless
10:27:38 there is a reason why not to.
10:27:40 Because we recognize that we need to increase safe,
10:27:45 alternative routes for bicyclist.
10:27:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion.
10:27:50 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:27:52 Opposes?
10:27:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, it sounds like I
10:27:55 screwed up.
10:27:57 I said plat Brorein but it's Platt Cleveland.
10:28:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Clerk, make that correction in the
10:28:05 motion.
10:28:05 Thank you.
10:28:05 Councilwoman Saul-Sena, new business.
10:28:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:28:08 Earlier today during our public comment, Chip Thomas
10:28:12 raised the issue of not mowing as frequently during
10:28:14 the cold weather and watering.
10:28:17 And I would like to -- I guess we have reclaimed

10:28:20 water.
10:28:21 So I would like to request that the administration
10:28:22 report back to us in 30 days on whether they could
10:28:26 take that into consideration.
10:28:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:28:33 Mr. Chairman, I think we ought to set a day where all
10:28:37 of us come to work on a bicycle.
10:28:42 And Mr. Caetano has to leave on a Wednesday to get
10:28:46 here on a Thursday.
10:28:47 That's Mr. Caetano's problem.
10:28:48 And he has to have applies escort because from New
10:28:51 Tampa to here it's dangerous, on the roads that he
10:28:54 will have to take, which is at Bruce B. Downs and the
10:28:57 other routes.
10:28:58 So if some council member would like to follow up with
10:29:03 me, I'll come on a bike.
10:29:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll do it if you do it.
10:29:07 >> I'm looking for a lot of people to do it.
10:29:10 >>GWEN MILLER: All the men.
10:29:14 >>> A bike can be a motorbike, which I have plenty of.
10:29:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion.
10:29:20 All in favor?

10:29:21 Opposes?
10:29:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I just want clarification.
10:29:25 Mrs. Saul-Sena, would you prefer that in writing or do
10:29:27 you specifically want an appearance for that?
10:29:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Writing is fine.
10:29:33 30 days on grass watering and mowing.
10:29:37 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I would like to get
10:29:40 four commendations for four boys who achieved eagle
10:29:43 scout.
10:29:45 It's going to be presented December 16th at 7 p.m.
10:29:47 at St. Marks evangelist Catholic church in New Tampa
10:29:52 on Cross Creek Boulevard.
10:29:53 Alex Presse, Austin Shin, Eric Christenson, and Brian
10:30:02 Guidry.
10:30:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And seconded by Councilwoman
10:30:05 Saul-Sena.
10:30:07 (Motion carried)
10:30:08 Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:30:10 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, I actually just want a report
10:30:12 from -- report some very good news from our Tampa
10:30:17 historic street car board meeting yesterday.
10:30:19 We now have a procurement schedule for the extension

10:30:24 of the street car, which council approved probably
10:30:28 about a year ago, but the three-block extension
10:30:40 Channelside to Whiting Street and I want to give you a
10:30:42 brief description.
10:30:44 We are going to have a draft statement of work by
10:30:46 December 5th.
10:30:48 January 7th, 2009, we are going to issue the
10:30:52 solicitation.
10:30:53 For bids.
10:30:55 It will be a design build bid.
10:30:57 And we will have a pre-offer conference to bidders
10:31:03 January 16th.
10:31:04 The offers are due by February 10th, 2009.
10:31:09 The award of the bid will be April 6th, 2009, by
10:31:13 the street car board.
10:31:14 And the notice to proceed will be April 23rd,
10:31:19 2009.
10:31:20 So sometime in 2010 we should have that installation
10:31:26 completed.
10:31:27 And I want to compliment city staff, especially Mr.
10:31:32 Irvin Lee, for all the great work they did on pushing
10:31:35 this forward.

10:31:36 So it's actually going to happen.
10:31:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
10:31:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I just wanted to bring to council's
10:31:43 attention reminder for council members Saul-Sena and
10:31:46 Mulhern that last week there was a special discussion
10:31:49 meeting on the transfer of development rights, and as
10:31:50 a result of input from the community there was a
10:31:52 request to have Julia Cole come back with additional
10:31:56 options to present to council in advance of the
10:31:58 discussion.
10:32:00 So in order to effectuate that, I believe the request
10:32:03 would be to authorize Julia Cole to be able to do
10:32:07 additional work on that.
10:32:10 No action to be taken on a special discussion meeting.
10:32:12 It does require the action of council.
10:32:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Shelby, for having a
10:32:16 great memory.
10:32:17 It was a very productive discussion, consensus among
10:32:20 everyone.
10:32:20 My request is that Ms. Cole come back to council with
10:32:24 some additional improvements to the TDR in advance of
10:32:27 it being considered by council.

10:32:30 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll second that.
10:32:31 And didn't we have a date, December -- it already on
10:32:37 the schedule?
10:32:38 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
10:32:40 Ordinance is coming back to council on December
10:32:42 11th.
10:32:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So you will get the draft.
10:32:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion and second.
10:32:51 (Motion carried)
10:32:52 Mr. Miranda, do you have anything?
10:32:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to say again that due
10:32:55 to the lack of rain, please conserve water.
10:33:00 It will be a dire need in the months of February,
10:33:02 March, and April.
10:33:04 So time of day has changed.
10:33:07 And if your water meter is not set right, your more
10:33:10 susceptible to getting a citation.
10:33:13 And the first citation is $100.
10:33:15 I'm asking you to please check your meter system and
10:33:19 your sprinkling system in your house so that you don't
10:33:21 get hit with $100.
10:33:24 And that's it, Mr. Chairman.

10:33:25 Please conserve water.
10:33:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:33:28 We will take up now the staff report.
10:33:31 Ms. Miller, you are up first on item 48 and 49.
10:33:37 >>CINDY MILLER: Director of growth management and
10:33:40 development services.
10:33:42 And while my colleague drew Campbell is putting some
10:33:48 boards up for your information, I'll do a brief
10:33:53 introduction.
10:33:53 First of all, I want to again thank and congratulate
10:33:57 the staff of the housing community development
10:33:59 division under the leadership of Sharon West.
10:34:02 The federal government had passed a bill called the
10:34:06 neighborhood stabilization program, and HUD has
10:34:10 allocated $13.6 million to the City of Tampa.
10:34:13 But they also gave us some very strict time lines to
10:34:17 accomplish what normally would be months of being able
10:34:21 to get work accomplished.
10:34:23 Instead, we basically got weeks.
10:34:25 And Sharon and her staff have done a fantastic job in
10:34:28 putting the documents together that are before you.
10:34:31 I do want to mention that it was on your addendum that

10:34:34 there was a substitution for item number 49.
10:34:38 Luckily, HUD is keeping to their promise of reviewing
10:34:40 our documents early and quickly, and we were able to
10:34:44 have a conference call with HUD Monday morning.
10:34:46 So what you have before you as a substitution is a
10:34:50 tweaking of the original document.
10:34:53 But it does not substantially change the program
10:34:55 itself.
10:34:57 I never used this portable mike so hopefully we'll
10:35:02 work on it.
10:35:03 What I would like to basically start with is this
10:35:09 foreclosure map.
10:35:11 What you see are as red dots are bank-owned
10:35:15 foreclosures meaning this is where folks are not in
10:35:18 their homes currently.
10:35:20 It's where the bank has already taken possession of
10:35:23 the house.
10:35:27 You can see really no part of our city is totally
10:35:30 immune from this situation and these dots represent
10:35:33 over 1800 bank-owned foreclosures.
10:35:35 Now, when you hear statistics, that talk about
10:35:38 foreclosures in process, those number in the

10:35:42 thousands.
10:35:43 And I do want to get an exact number because I think
10:35:45 it's helpful to know that these are the number of
10:35:49 citizens and homeowners within our community that are
10:35:52 impacted.
10:35:54 But when you look at this, you will see that Sulphur
10:35:56 Springs area has the highest number of any zip code,
10:36:01 any neighborhood up of foreclosures that a bank owned.
10:36:05 We do have a number in East Tampa and other
10:36:07 neighborhood to the south.
10:36:07 We also have a number here.
10:36:09 It looks like a small number but it's very
10:36:11 concentrated here in the north area, which is the
10:36:14 north Tampa community and the university square area.
10:36:17 But because that's so close to Busch Gardens you have
10:36:20 a lot of sort of commercial, industrial type of area
10:36:23 here.
10:36:23 But for the number of homes along those streets, it's
10:36:27 a significant density of foreclosures as well as sort
10:36:32 of a flare-up in West Tampa, when you look at old West
10:36:35 Tampa, there is sort of another what I would call a
10:36:38 flare-up when you are looking at this area.

10:36:39 This is what we started with, and this is information
10:36:43 that was easily obtained through public records.
10:36:46 The other factor going to the other board here is
10:36:50 looking at the percentage of high loan rates.
10:36:54 Now, what does that mean?
10:36:55 High loan rate is what we refer to as the subprime
10:36:58 market.
10:36:59 What basically has occurred over the past few years
10:37:04 has been say five years ago someone entered into a
10:37:07 mortgage transaction to purchase a home.
10:37:09 They may have had a variable rates of let's just say
10:37:12 8%, maybe 9%, not the best rates necessarily, but that
10:37:15 is what folks could obtain.
10:37:17 But it was a variable rate that would adjust
10:37:20 periodically.
10:37:21 Well, the adjustments came through.
10:37:23 And what the adjustments have often been is maybe 5
10:37:28 additional percentage points.
10:37:29 So you my be seeing that started with an 8 or 9%
10:37:33 mortgage but now is looking at 12% mortgage.
10:37:35 And usually what will occur is that this is reset
10:37:39 every five years.

10:37:40 It started last year in 2007.
10:37:42 We are seeing them in 2008.
10:37:44 And we expect to see them for the next couple of
10:37:46 years, because think of what the boom years were.
10:37:49 2005, 2006.
10:37:50 We could be seeing these kinds of variable rates
10:37:53 resetting for quite additional time period.
10:37:56 So what again we look at is compared the foreclosure
10:37:59 rates that already are bank-owned foreclosures to the
10:38:02 high subprime, and there also was another sort of
10:38:06 layering that we do which is the area median income
10:38:08 and the neighborhoods we are primarily looking at are
10:38:11 neighborhoods where the area median income is less
10:38:12 than 120%, with a majority of our residents are in
10:38:17 that area of -- less than 120% area median income and
10:38:23 that would be in general terms for a family of four
10:38:25 around the 60 to $70,000 annual income for a family of
10:38:29 four, and you are talking 120%.
10:38:31 Now go back behind the dais.
10:38:38 So that's the information we started with.
10:38:39 And then also we did some other really live research.
10:38:44 We went into the neighborhoods and drove around.

10:38:46 So what we were seeing -- and I'll give an example of
10:38:51 some of the Sulphur Springs streets that we drove
10:38:53 down.
10:38:54 Would you see a totally vacant house with in signage
10:38:56 in front.
10:38:57 You would see a vacant house with a for-rent sign.
10:39:00 And maybe next to it would you see a vacant house with
10:39:02 a for-sale sign.
10:39:04 But in all cases they were vacant.
10:39:06 So from that standpoint, he would can't say that those
10:39:08 houses are in foreclosure.
10:39:10 But we can identify that those are symptoms of either
10:39:14 current foreclosures or potential foreclosures.
10:39:17 The kind of percentages we saw were 20 to 40% on any
10:39:21 particular block.
10:39:22 So you might have ten houses.
10:39:24 And when I just mentioned vacant, for rent, for sale,
10:39:29 four houses out of ten is a 40% ratio on some of those
10:39:32 blocks.
10:39:33 So those are the kinds of things worry looking at.
10:39:35 In West Tampa you see the same thing.
10:39:36 You are also seeing in other parts of our city.

10:39:39 So what we are identifying within this application is
10:39:43 basically two portions of our applications, and then I
10:39:48 am going to talk about the future and talk about sort
10:39:49 of a third means that we want to use to address
10:39:53 outside of the neighborhood stabilization program.
10:39:55 But first of all we want to look at home ownership.
10:39:58 The target areas for homeowner shop, Sulphur Springs,
10:40:01 north did, university square, and the West Tampa, old
10:40:05 West Tampa neighborhood.
10:40:06 When it comes to the neighborhoods to the north, I
10:40:09 think it's a very good bit of information, too, is
10:40:12 that the county has selected as one of their target
10:40:15 areas the university area, just to the north of
10:40:17 Fowler.
10:40:17 So, therefore, we will have a continuous area that we
10:40:21 will both be targeting, and we can really see some
10:40:24 implementation of some great programs.
10:40:26 So that's where we would be looking at home ownership.
10:40:29 I don't think I have to tell any of you that that
10:40:31 area, our northerly area, Sulphur Springs and North
10:40:34 Trail border is a very high percentage of rental.
10:40:37 We had hoped to be able to get home ownership over the

10:40:41 years but unfortunately due to the predatory lending
10:40:43 practices we are seeing these vacancies.
10:40:44 We want to be able to use the true word of this
10:40:48 program, neighborhood stabilization.
10:40:51 If you have vacant houses in a neighborhood, the rest
10:40:53 of the neighborhood cannot be stabilized.
10:40:55 We have consulted with the Tampa Police Department,
10:40:58 and again if a house is vacant too long, there's
10:41:02 vandalism, throws potential for other bad things
10:41:05 happening along with folks starting to occupy the
10:41:08 house that is should not be occupied.
10:41:10 So we are very hopeful that we will be able to see
10:41:12 some changes as we acquire properties in the
10:41:14 neighborhood and stabilize them so that the next door
10:41:19 neighbor who is a homeowner isn't going to foal
10:41:21 threatened by what's going on down the block.
10:41:24 So those how we established home ownership.
10:41:28 When it comes -- and that would be about 80 houses is
10:41:31 what we are estimating.
10:41:34 Would be involved in this type of situation.
10:41:36 We would be acquiring the foreclosed properties.
10:41:40 If they are in sufficiently good condition to

10:41:42 rehabilitate them, we would rehabilitate them.
10:41:45 If they are not in good condition, if they have been
10:41:47 damaged due to vandalism and such, and we do not feel
10:41:51 that it is financially prudent, we would be looking at
10:41:54 tearing them down.
10:41:55 Perhaps even seeing if there is a stretch of property
10:41:58 that are in that kind of condition, tear, say two,
10:42:03 houses down to be able to build one good one.
10:42:07 What you also see in the neighborhood are house that
10:42:08 is are too small to really be marketable.
10:42:10 He would don't want to set people up in such a way
10:42:12 that as I talk to you they don't have this ladder of
10:42:16 opportunity.
10:42:16 You start with a 700 or 800 square foot house, you are
10:42:19 knots going to have much markets to sell it to the
10:42:21 next party.
10:42:22 So therefore what we would like to do is see closer to
10:42:25 1,000 or 1200 square foot house which is a marketable
10:42:28 property for folks, to have their own families, also
10:42:31 to be able to sell when the opportunity hopefully
10:42:34 presents itself to them.
10:42:36 The second area that we would be looking at is rental,

10:42:39 using these funds.
10:42:41 We are required under the federal regulations for this
10:42:44 to provide 25% of the moneys for housing, for
10:42:48 individuals and families that are less than 50% of
10:42:51 area median income.
10:42:52 Again for a family of four, that's $28,250.
10:42:57 So affordable rental is important there.
10:43:00 And again I have to compliment Sharon West here,
10:43:03 because I think she has developed a Don concept that I
10:43:06 think all of you will find exciting, both interesting
10:43:09 and exciting.
10:43:11 How we would like to approach this is to take requests
10:43:13 for qualifications from various social service
10:43:17 entities so that we would provide the funding for them
10:43:19 to acquire again abandoned, foreclosed houses, or
10:43:23 multifamily units, it wouldn't just have to be
10:43:26 single-family, rehabilitate this, or partial
10:43:30 demolition or total demolition. With that property
10:43:33 then, the social service entity would own the house,
10:43:37 we would have a lien on it, but they would be able to
10:43:40 rent it to their clients that heir coming out of their
10:43:44 programs.

10:43:45 The example I have been using -- and she was gracious
10:43:47 enough to join us last week, Joanne lighter from the
10:43:50 spring -- as an example -- and I am not saying we are
10:43:54 going to necessarily have a contract with the spring
10:43:56 but this is the concept we are talking -- is that if
10:43:59 they have a lady who is coming out of protective
10:44:02 living, with two kids, she can't afford to buy a
10:44:04 house, she can't afford the rental in a lot of areas
10:44:09 of our community, they could provide her up to two
10:44:11 years of transition al housing so she gets back on her
10:44:14 feet but still have that tie back to the spring for
10:44:16 the supportive services they can provide.
10:44:19 We are hoping to use this money for at least 30 units
10:44:23 of this type among various social service entities and
10:44:26 also to be able to provide this type of affordable
10:44:28 rental.
10:44:29 I also believe this is something that council at our
10:44:32 community development block grant meetings had
10:44:34 indicated you wanted us to look at how can we provide
10:44:37 this kind of service?
10:44:38 And there's a number of other social services.
10:44:42 We are growing a long list of e-mails.

10:44:47 We have to work together.
10:44:48 We would like to see them perhaps, if someone has a
10:44:51 property management under their not for profit, their
10:44:53 social service, they would be able to provide the
10:44:55 property management to other groups as long as it's
10:44:57 used for rental, it stay in their program.
10:45:01 Otherwise it comes back to the city.
10:45:03 Then throws a third aspect that frankly I think the
10:45:06 neighborhood stabilization program got us thinking a
10:45:08 little differently.
10:45:09 And although this aspect is not really part of what's
10:45:12 before you today, I will be back to see you, I believe
10:45:18 January 29th, of 2009 O -- isn't it scary that we
10:45:21 are already there? -- to have a housing workshop.
10:45:24 What I will be bringing back to you then is looking at
10:45:26 some other sources of funding that I hope to be able
10:45:29 to apply to a very similar scenario here, that we can
10:45:35 leverage, that we can provide additional funds, but
10:45:38 frankly I have to wait for some money sources to both
10:45:41 become available before the end of the calendar year,
10:45:43 as well as from other sources to free up.
10:45:47 So I would like to sort of hold that as a coming

10:45:49 attraction to be able to talk what we are
10:45:51 basically looking at is working the financial
10:45:54 institutions again to get -- I would sort of hope that
10:45:59 we can get it at very, very low acquisition at worst,
10:46:03 and possibly even some other donations of property,
10:46:06 and be able to have rehabilitation of those throughout
10:46:10 our city.
10:46:11 When it comes to the rental opportunity I just
10:46:13 discussed, that is not in those target areas for home
10:46:16 ownership.
10:46:17 That would be a variety of neighborhoods which are
10:46:19 outlined very generally, it's a number of
10:46:22 neighborhoods north of 275 and I-4, and then south of
10:46:25 the city boundary with the county.
10:46:29 As I mentioned, I will be back to see you in January,
10:46:33 also for other affordable housing discussion.
10:46:36 On December 18th we will be putting a document
10:46:39 before you that is the result of our affordable
10:46:42 housing advisory committee, so you will be seeing that
10:46:44 coming forth on your agenda in the next couple of
10:46:46 weeks.
10:46:49 With that -- one other point, and it's not in my

10:46:54 prepared remarks, but I did hear the gentleman speak
10:46:57 at our audience agenda earlier today.
10:46:59 He had mentioned that $100,000 looked to be a lot of
10:47:02 money for property, because we are basically talking
10:47:06 80 houses for home ownership, 30 houses for affordable
10:47:11 rental.
10:47:11 But when you are looking at acquisition,
10:47:14 rehabilitation, or brand new construction.
10:47:18 Especially when you are looking at brand new
10:47:20 construction, the 100 or $110,000 is an average.
10:47:24 We do believe that even if you acquire property for,
10:47:26 say, $30,000, if you are building a now house on it,
10:47:30 it's still going to have to have some additional
10:47:32 moneys.
10:47:32 And if we can do more houses, I really hope we can.
10:47:38 We do have that opportunity.
10:47:39 We do have to commit the dollars within 18 months of
10:47:41 award, and spend all of it within four years.
10:47:44 And I think with the needs of our community, we will
10:47:46 be able to have a lot of opportunities to be able to
10:47:49 utilize these funds effectively.
10:47:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern, Saul-Sena, and

10:47:54 Miller.
10:47:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Mrs. Miller, you might have said this
10:47:58 and I know you told me when we spoke but how much is
10:48:00 the total amount we are getting in dollars federal
10:48:02 dollars?
10:48:02 >>> $13.6 million.
10:48:04 >>MARY MULHERN: And I was going to bring up that real
10:48:08 estate representative who spoke about the funding so I
10:48:16 hope we will work with the private real estate market
10:48:19 to make sure that we are getting as -- purchasing as
10:48:25 much as we can, and at the lowest cost that we can.
10:48:31 >>> If I can just touch on that.
10:48:33 In January we hope to have the word back from HUD as
10:48:35 to the final award of these dollars.
10:48:38 At that point, we will be requesting information for
10:48:42 qualification, the request for proposals, to be able
10:48:44 to have what we are calling housing partners.
10:48:47 Housing partners, we hope, will include private
10:48:50 sector, so that we will have a number of groups and
10:48:54 consortiums that work together.
10:48:56 So from that standpoint we hope that everyone who is
10:48:58 interested in good affordable quality housing will

10:49:01 come forth.
10:49:02 >>MARY MULHERN: A couple questions.
10:49:07 When you talked about -- the 13.6 million, how are
10:49:17 those going to be -- through what funds, account, is
10:49:23 that going to be distributed?
10:49:24 Is that going to be CDBG money?
10:49:27 >>> It's a separate index.
10:49:28 It follows the same kind of account as CDBG money but
10:49:32 I believe there everybody unique index codes, and that
10:49:35 is item number 48 on the agenda, is to show that
10:49:42 allocation of funds to various index codes.
10:49:45 >>MARY MULHERN: And I guess the concern I have and I'm
10:49:48 hearing from the neighborhoods in the community, and
10:49:52 since you are targeting those, in East Tampa, and
10:50:02 northeast Tampa and West Tampa, is there going to be
10:50:06 community -- East Tampa I guess could be CRA
10:50:09 involvement as far as advisory, what you are going to
10:50:14 be doing?
10:50:15 >>> Yes, there will be.
10:50:16 Mrs. West attended a recent meeting and she will be
10:50:19 attending advisory committee meetings and also back
10:50:21 before you, hopefully we will be able to leverage some

10:50:26 dollars there, and as I was mentioning I hope to be
10:50:29 back to you in January identifying even more available
10:50:31 funds that can be used throughout the city.
10:50:33 >>MARY MULHERN: And that's the other question, when
10:50:37 you talk about leveraging and other available funds,
10:50:40 are you talking about CRA dollars?
10:50:43 >>> I am not from my standpoint.
10:50:45 We do hope that there will be some discussion of that.
10:50:49 But what I'm looking at are those dollars that I have
10:50:51 under my departmental jurisdiction, which would be
10:50:55 home moneys from the federal government, SHIP from the
10:51:00 state, and we have on our agenda on Friday afternoon
10:51:05 to look at historic trust fund moneys.
10:51:08 Reason for that is when we are looking at old West
10:51:10 Tampa which is an eligible neighborhood, we would be
10:51:13 able to utilize hopefully some of those funds to be
10:51:16 able to do the remodeling of contributing structures.
10:51:20 That, however, I can't address because our meeting
10:51:22 tomorrow afternoon is a committee that's composed of
10:51:26 Bonnie Wise, Mark Huey and myself, and we are a
10:51:28 sunshine committee, so until we have the discussion
10:51:31 there tomorrow afternoon, I really -- I have the great

10:51:34 idea.
10:51:34 I just hope the other two agree with me.
10:51:39 >>MARY MULHERN: I think that my -- my kind of concern
10:51:43 and kind of a red flag is since we do have the
10:51:48 one-time-only money, and we have to -- it has to be
10:51:52 distributed -- what did you say?
10:51:56 >>> We have to have in effect contracts executed
10:51:58 within 18 months, which gives us enough time to do
10:52:01 contracts, but then spend it within four.
10:52:04 Very frankly, I think because of the needs of our
10:52:06 community, we hope to spend it much earlier than four
10:52:08 years.
10:52:09 But then again, as we, say, sell house that is money
10:52:13 comes back into the fund that we can reallocate for
10:52:16 the same purposes.
10:52:17 >>MARY MULHERN: I think my -- my initial sense is that
10:52:22 if we start trying to tie that up with other sources
10:52:26 of funding like TIF dollars and historic preservation,
10:52:30 it's going to slow things down.
10:52:32 >>> That's not my intention.
10:52:34 The neighborhood stabilization funds will be their
10:52:38 program.

10:52:38 However, because you have certain targeted
10:52:40 neighborhoods, in effect the north Tampa area and West
10:52:44 Tampa, we have needs throughout the rest of our
10:52:46 community.
10:52:49 Therefore we are looking at other sources of funds to
10:52:51 help address the neighborhoods.
10:52:52 And that's my intention.
10:52:53 I hope to free up significant dollars for next fiscal
10:52:57 you're.
10:52:58 Really the conclusion of this fiscal year and into the
10:53:00 next fiscal year so that we can provide more leverage.
10:53:02 The leverage throughout our community.
10:53:05 But I am not going to bog down this process
10:53:06 whatsoever.
10:53:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ms. Saul-Sena, Councilwoman Miller.
10:53:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is very exciting.
10:53:14 I wish us all good speed in implementing this because
10:53:18 when know the needs are there.
10:53:19 And I just want to make two quick comment.
10:53:22 One is I hope you are able to work with clean cities
10:53:24 top try to keep some semblance of maintenance while we
10:53:28 are going through the process.

10:53:29 >>> The great thing about this program, they provide
10:53:32 us maintenance money.
10:53:35 We have not had that before.
10:53:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Great.
10:53:39 >>CINDY MILLER: A lot of the other infill lots had no
10:53:43 funding for maintenance so clean city is one of our
10:53:46 partners, and they have already been at the table
10:53:47 helping us put this information together.
10:53:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That is great.
10:53:50 Other thing I know has been done successfully in other
10:53:53 cities -- and I'm not aware of our trying this -- is
10:53:55 working with people who really are eager to get into
10:53:59 these homes, don't have a lot of cash, and might be
10:54:02 able to do some of the repair work in terms of sweat
10:54:04 equity.
10:54:05 I don't know if that's too much to take on, but it
10:54:10 might make affordability more profitable for some
10:54:12 people.
10:54:12 >>> Two aspect on that.
10:54:15 We are hoping that one of the entities that may come
10:54:17 to the table in January or February is habitat for
10:54:22 humanity, which they are the experts at that.

10:54:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
10:54:25 >>> In addition to that, some of the social service
10:54:28 entities that have approached us, and that we have on
10:54:32 our mailing list, they have indicated that they would
10:54:34 like to bring some of their volunteers in.
10:54:36 That's the beauty of having a number of the social
10:54:38 services.
10:54:39 They have board members that have these kinds of
10:54:41 qualifications.
10:54:42 That may very well -- especially because we can only
10:54:45 use the money to bring a house up to code.
10:54:47 They can provide better landscaping, better
10:54:50 appearance, things of that nature.
10:54:51 So we want these to be homes, not just houses.
10:54:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for that distinction.
10:54:56 I think that's really important because what we
10:54:58 ultimately want is for the neighborhood to be strong
10:55:02 and making it a home, making people own that is the
10:55:06 key.
10:55:06 Thank you.
10:55:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Miller.
10:55:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Miller, would you say what's being

10:55:13 done in East Tampa?
10:55:14 I know they are anxious to be see what's going to
10:55:16 happen out there.
10:55:17 >>CINDY MILLER: Thank you, yes.
10:55:19 East Tampa and the various neighborhoods within the
10:55:20 East Tampa area are part of our other eligible areas.
10:55:24 Certainly when it comes to the affordable rental, that
10:55:29 is included within those neighborhoods.
10:55:31 In addition, when I mentioned the other resources that
10:55:34 I would like to bring into -- again not the
10:55:40 neighborhood stakes program but to supplement that, is
10:55:43 where we are dedicating funds through home, SHIP, and
10:55:49 one thing that sometimes is not identified with
10:55:51 historic preservation is that several blocks north of
10:55:57 I-4 that are within the East Tampa CRA are part of the
10:56:00 Ybor national historic district.
10:56:02 So, therefore, historic preservation funds can be used
10:56:05 in that district.
10:56:07 So we hope to bring home funds, SHIP funds and
10:56:11 historic preservation funds into East Tampa.
10:56:13 >>GWEN MILLER: You say Mrs. West.
10:56:16 Does she meet with the East Tampa association or she's

10:56:18 going to meet with them?
10:56:19 >>> She has and she will.
10:56:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Because I got a message from Diane Best
10:56:26 that they didn't know anything about this
10:56:27 stabilization.
10:56:28 >>> I believe there has been discussion with Mrs. Best
10:56:32 to set up a separate meeting.
10:56:35 But Sharon has been in touch with her.
10:56:37 >>GWEN MILLER: I will let her know that she will get
10:56:38 in touch with her.
10:56:39 Thank you.
10:56:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
10:56:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
10:56:44 This is all coming rather fast and furious.
10:56:51 I asked Mr. Fletcher so we can have an understanding
10:56:54 of what's behind it and I got this, this morning,
10:56:58 which I obviously haven't had a chance to read.
10:57:02 Your document is pretty hefty itself.
10:57:18 Even though this money came out of Congress, I think
10:57:20 the mayor came out and made an announcement about a
10:57:22 week ago, thereabouts in, terms of the proposed
10:57:25 program.

10:57:25 But, Mr. Fletcher, are you around?
10:57:29 What I'm wondering about is Mr. Smith used to remind
10:57:33 us about how the charter works, and especially when we
10:57:36 would step beyond the bounds of where we are supposed
10:57:38 to be as far as council's role but he also stressed
10:57:45 for us that we are a policy-making body.
10:57:47 Okay.
10:57:47 So when I look at this new program, it's a brand new
10:57:50 federal program, it's brand new money to the city,
10:57:54 $13.6 million, we are establishing a new program, and
10:58:00 I'm thinking to myself, as I look at all of this, that
10:58:03 this is exactly the type of policy decisions that this
10:58:07 council should be delving into, and I would suggest --
10:58:13 this isn't part of the question -- I would suggest a
10:58:16 little more than we are right now in terms of an up or
10:58:18 down vote.
10:58:21 Instead what I'm seeing is that the administration is
10:58:24 bringing us this package.
10:58:30 And Ms. Miller, if you could, while you are waiting,
10:58:32 could you put up page 5 from your book which tells
10:58:35 about the breakout of how this $13.6 million is going
10:58:38 to be spent?

10:58:40 You know, to me, those are policy decisions.
10:58:43 Then afterwards, once council agrees what the policy
10:58:47 should be and the direction should be of this program,
10:58:50 then it would appear to me that the it the
10:58:53 administration's responsibility over the next 18
10:58:55 months to four years to effectuate that policy and to
10:58:59 do these programs.
10:59:01 But that's not what I'm seeing.
10:59:06 That's not what I'm seeing at all.
10:59:07 And I'm going to give you some specific examples.
10:59:10 I think that there's some really, really good aspects
10:59:12 to what you presented here today.
10:59:14 But I also have some problems with $7.2 million out of
10:59:21 the 13 million that's being spent, and how it's being
10:59:24 spent.
10:59:24 So, anyway, throws a question working in there, Mr.
10:59:27 Fletcher, if you wanted me to rephrase it, I will, but
10:59:30 I think maybe you know what the gist of my question
10:59:32 is.
10:59:32 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I have think we have a somewhat
10:59:36 unique situation where we are being asked, as I
10:59:38 understand it, to apply for federal funds that have a

10:59:40 lot of strings and conditions attached.
10:59:44 As you alluded to, typically these kinds of programs
10:59:46 would have extensive rules, documents associated with
10:59:51 them.
10:59:51 Because of the quick pace which this is moving, based
10:59:56 on the urgency of the situation and the economy, that
11:00:01 hasn't really occurred.
11:00:02 What I gave you were the PowerPoint presentations from
11:00:07 department of housing and urban development, that kind
11:00:09 of generally establishes the guidelines.
11:00:13 My understanding is those have changed on at least two
11:00:16 occasions since that presentation was given.
11:00:19 So I think what you're seeing here is the staff's
11:00:23 effort to, as best as they can, meet the standards
11:00:28 that the federal government has given them and is
11:00:31 asking for your consent to submit the application.
11:00:37 And I think really what we are looking at here is an
11:00:43 instance where you all do get to make the final call
11:00:47 regarding whether or not this contract is initiated.
11:00:50 But --
11:00:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's not setting policy.
11:00:58 That's just voting up or down on a policy that's been

11:01:00 brought to us.
11:01:01 I mean, I understand this is ab rush situation, and he
11:01:03 would want that money to get out in the community as
11:01:06 quickly as possible.
11:01:07 And I'm not trying to drag my feet on that.
11:01:09 But I do have some concern.
11:01:10 For example, as Mrs. Miller mentioned one of our
11:01:14 neighborhood leaders, Mrs. Best, who is the chairman
11:01:16 of the East Tampa CRP, you know, she called.
11:01:23 She said that our staff did come and speak with them,
11:01:26 but she would like to try to require another meeting
11:01:30 or two so they get a better understanding of what's
11:01:33 going on, probably before this moves forward.
11:01:35 Likewise, I saw there's a whole page in there that
11:01:39 says community input.
11:01:40 But we are going to submit this document according to
11:01:43 this thing on November 26th which is what the
11:01:46 signature page says.
11:01:47 So the mayor is going to sign supposedly on the
11:01:51 25th.
11:01:51 So, you know, what is the program for community input?
11:01:55 How much do people know about this in terms of do they

11:01:58 know that they can actually give input?
11:02:01 How much are we going to evaluate that input as a
11:02:04 council before we vote on this?
11:02:07 Because we haven't had any input yet.
11:02:11 And most importantly, in all those questions, is, is
11:02:16 there a drop-dead deadline to submit?
11:02:19 And Sharon, I need your help on this, too.
11:02:21 Is there a drop-dead deadline to submit this amended
11:02:24 package?
11:02:25 Because obviously we don't want to miss it.
11:02:28 So is it by the end of the year?
11:02:30 Is it by the end of the month?
11:02:44 What have you.
11:02:44 >>CINDY MILLER: Let me first address public input.
11:02:48 One reason he would wanted to make sure we have this
11:02:49 information out into the media last week as I was
11:02:52 submitting the documents to your agenda is because
11:02:55 there is public input, these documents have been put
11:02:58 onto the web site, which is what we do with our
11:03:01 various programs and applications.
11:03:05 What is before you is basically an amendment to our
11:03:07 consolidated plan which would then authorize us to

11:03:11 submit this application 15 days of input.
11:03:25 Mrs. West has been talking with a number of the folks
11:03:27 from East Tampa and other neighborhoods, as I have
11:03:31 personally been talking with a number of folks from
11:03:33 throughout our community.
11:03:34 The deadline for the application is December 1st.
11:03:39 We are using the date of next week because very
11:03:41 frankly we don't want to get bogged down in the
11:03:43 Thanksgiving weekend.
11:03:45 If council does not approve it prior to the official
11:03:47 submittal date, we basically cannot make that
11:03:52 application.
11:03:53 However, we do believe one reason we wanted to have
11:03:55 the information out last week is so the public would
11:04:02 know.
11:04:03 We have been having phone calls, we are setting up
11:04:05 meetings all of the time.
11:04:06 HUD has assured us that they will look at all
11:04:08 applications frankly on a nationwide basis.
11:04:11 During the month of December, and then give us an
11:04:13 answer in January.
11:04:14 We hope they will keep to that timing.

11:04:16 But basically, our last training that we had from HUD
11:04:20 on these regulations occurred in October, so that
11:04:24 staff had enough information to start putting together
11:04:26 the information to look at the maps and the layering
11:04:29 that we had to do in order to comply with the
11:04:31 regulations.
11:04:33 So I can a sure council that although I know it is a
11:04:37 tight deadline, we worked as quickly as we could to be
11:04:41 able to respond to that.
11:04:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I appreciate that and commend
11:04:45 your staff for working within those tight deadlines.
11:04:49 Problem as the chairman often points out southbound
11:04:50 that we got these documents within the last four or
11:04:54 five days, at the most, it's my understanding you have
11:04:57 been briefing other council members yesterday, or
11:05:01 perhaps in the last two or three days, you and I
11:05:10 didn't get together because our schedules weren't able
11:05:12 to jive, and that's fine.
11:05:13 But it's just the last minute thing.
11:05:15 So if we are at the policy setting body, in some sort
11:05:19 of fictional world, you know, I would have hoped that
11:05:22 we would have been part of that discussion over the

11:05:24 last month, ever since you got all the guidelines from
11:05:29 HUD, in October, why not start coming to council and
11:05:32 having these meetings and getting our input?
11:05:34 Because at the end of the day, you are looking for our
11:05:37 vote.
11:05:37 Now, specifically, council, here's my issue.
11:05:51 What you will see is we got thousands of homes being
11:05:54 foreclosed on so one would assume that we want to --
11:05:57 we want to affect as many of those homes as possible,
11:06:01 all right?
11:06:03 But the problem that I have is that under this
11:06:06 proposal, we are only going to impact approximately
11:06:11 110 out of those thousands.
11:06:14 I think part of the reason -- and I think we could
11:06:17 almost perhaps double that number -- is the fact that
11:06:21 part of this plan says we are going to target 40 homes
11:06:28 and knock them down, buy 40 homes out of foreclosure.
11:06:31 Mrs. West and I just talked a little while ago.
11:06:34 She indicated some of them might be duplexes in
11:06:36 Sulphur Springs and that sort of thing.
11:06:38 You know, they are blighted, blah-blah-blah, we are
11:06:41 going to pick them up, we are going to knock them

11:06:43 down, and then over the next several years hopefully
11:06:47 we are going to rehab the empty lot and with our
11:06:51 partners, and build new homes on them.
11:06:57 Well, guess how much that costs per property, for
11:07:00 those 40, okay?
11:07:01 Per property.
11:07:02 They are estimating you buy it for about 50,000, you
11:07:05 knock it down for another 10,000, and you rebuild it
11:07:08 for 120,000, for a total city/federal investment of
11:07:13 $180,000 for a property.
11:07:15 I got that right out of your document.
11:07:22 That comes out to $7.2 million out of the $13 million
11:07:26 project, plus the 10% overhead.
11:07:29 Because we have 10% overhead going to the city and to
11:07:33 our partners to manage this program.
11:07:37 I have a big policy problem with that, because I think
11:07:40 that we could take that 7.2 million and instead of
11:07:45 doing our normal thing, you know, taking empty lots,
11:07:48 and working with partners over the next four years,
11:07:50 and building houses which is our normal housing
11:07:55 program, I don't think that was Congress' intent.
11:08:01 I think Congress' intent was sent 13 million to Tampa,

11:08:04 let's get some houses off the market and back to some
11:08:08 responsible families with responsible loans, a as many
11:08:11 houses as possible.
11:08:11 And I would say there's an opportunity to do perhaps
11:08:14 200 of those instead of this 100.
11:08:17 But here's the problem.
11:08:18 We now have a December 1st deadline.
11:08:20 And I'm not going to screw up a deadline.
11:08:22 I don't want to mess around with $13 million.
11:08:25 It's too big a risk.
11:08:26 So what I would like us to do is submit this
11:08:29 application, because it's all pretty and everything,
11:08:31 all tied up all the loose ends, submit it, because we
11:08:35 need to submit it.
11:08:36 But then I would like us to have a very, very public
11:08:39 process and get all the community, including Sulphur
11:08:42 Springs, and if we need to go out there, let's go out
11:08:45 there, in East Tampa because they are a little upset,
11:08:48 because I think they are being -- thank you,
11:08:50 Mr. Knott -- I think East Tampa feels they might be
11:08:53 getting left out of this equation a little bit, and
11:08:56 let's get out there in the community and see if maybe

11:09:00 we need to tweak this.
11:09:02 But what I want to make sure from Mr. Fletcher is that
11:09:05 after we vote on this, that we haven't relinquished
11:09:09 our control of this in terms of our poems ability.
11:09:13 >>CINDY MILLER: May I just address that?
11:09:16 >> Sure.
11:09:17 >> And then I will have Mr. Fletcher step up.
11:09:20 When I talk about all the commitments that have to be
11:09:22 executed, the contracts, the next 18 months, every
11:09:25 single one of those contracts have to come back to
11:09:28 you.
11:09:28 So, yes, we will be continuing to have that --
11:09:32 >> But that's chasing the train, Cindy, and now that,
11:09:35 because by then you guys have already done it and you
11:09:37 have buyers and you have done it and everything else.
11:09:39 What I'm saying is let's let the train get out of the
11:09:43 station, go to Washington, get this money, bring it
11:09:46 back.
11:09:46 But then I want your assurance, either Chip or you,
11:09:51 Ms. Miller, because I trust you, as an honorable
11:09:54 person, that council will have another real bite at
11:10:00 the apple to revisit some of these policy issues.

11:10:02 >> Councilman Dingfelder, I believe you are correct,
11:10:07 and I believe the way that our housing plan is set up,
11:10:09 we will have other opportunities for council because
11:10:16 this is again part of the existing plan that we are
11:10:18 amending but I want to point out one thing, is if I
11:10:21 remember the discussions correctly, HUD has indicated
11:10:27 that casting a wider net is something that they are
11:10:29 not terribly excited about, and that's part of the
11:10:32 reason we ended up focused on these smaller areas.
11:10:35 >> I don't mean wider geographic.
11:10:42 I'm not looking for you guys to come to South Tampa
11:10:44 and do this project.
11:10:47 That's not the point.
11:10:48 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I think what we need to do is
11:10:52 spend some time going through what HUD's expectations
11:10:55 are and how that fits in with what we have got in this
11:10:57 proposal because my understanding is we weren't given
11:10:59 an awful lot of discretion.
11:11:02 >> We have discretion whether or not to go into this,
11:11:04 demolish and rebuild.
11:11:05 We have discretion to do that.
11:11:06 And we use half of our money in that discretion

11:11:10 because somebody across the alley here has made those
11:11:14 decisions.
11:11:14 But this council hasn't made those decisions.
11:11:17 But what I'm concerned is, by voting on this, I just
11:11:21 want to know, Cindy, that we can come back together
11:11:24 and workshop this in January, February, when we get
11:11:28 more knowledgeable on this, with the community, and be
11:11:31 in a position to tweak page 5.
11:11:34 Page 5 is in front of us.
11:11:36 And to tweak page 5 and to have your assurances that
11:11:39 we can do that.
11:11:41 >>CINDY MILLER: Absolutely.
11:11:42 Page 5 is a preliminary budget.
11:11:44 We will be back to you as part of again my January
11:11:47 update on housing.
11:11:48 We will be able to give you the status at that point
11:11:50 and also start hopefully giving you some preliminary
11:11:52 takes.
11:11:52 I hope I don't have to tear down 40 houses.
11:11:55 But it would mean then that we would then come back to
11:11:57 you and identify how we will revise this budget.
11:12:00 We are going to have to.

11:12:01 We have to revise it around the budget that's in the
11:12:03 other agenda item.
11:12:05 As well.
11:12:05 So we will be staying in contact with you, and as
11:12:10 often as you want me to come back for housing update
11:12:12 and any modifications for the consolidated plan I will
11:12:14 be very happy to do.
11:12:15 >> Councilwoman Mulhern.
11:12:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I guess my question, I think you have
11:12:23 answered it but I would like a little more -- this is
11:12:27 a preliminary budget that we are looking at, apparent
11:12:29 lip this is page 5.
11:12:33 Is that required in the application process?
11:12:37 >>CINDY MILLER: Yes, it is.
11:12:38 >>MARY MULHERN: And does it commit us to that?
11:12:41 >>> It does not commit to us those exact line items.
11:12:43 But we were required to submit a budget this time that
11:12:47 can be modified in the future.
11:12:48 It could be modified anytime that when come back to
11:12:51 council with a revised plan.
11:12:55 >> Okay.
11:12:56 Then a couple of things.

11:12:57 I think that -- I want to thank Mr. Dingfelder for
11:13:02 taking the time to look through this enough to propose
11:13:07 this to us, and I think -- I'm concerned because I
11:13:11 think maybe we are not using the intent of this aid
11:13:17 that we are getting for foreclosed houses.
11:13:21 I'm not convinced that we are using it in the right
11:13:23 way.
11:13:23 So not only that council isn't setting the policy, but
11:13:27 also that maybe we are not, you know, following
11:13:31 through with what -- and I think helping the most
11:13:35 people is probably the best way to do it, helping the
11:13:38 people who are losing their homes.
11:13:40 And I think to make that recent to saying that
11:13:46 demolishing and rebuilding doesn't seem like the
11:13:49 obvious way that the federal government is intending
11:13:54 us to use this emergency money.
11:13:56 So I would like us to revisit it.
11:13:59 I think that when do need to have more community
11:14:03 input.
11:14:04 I think that council also, you know, you are
11:14:07 presenting us with a map, and to me it looks like
11:14:11 almost all of it is in East Tampa.

11:14:15 The highest concentration of the foreclosed homes are
11:14:18 there.
11:14:21 It is Sulphur Springs?
11:14:23 Okay, sorry.
11:14:24 Okay.
11:14:25 But I think that I would like us and the community to
11:14:28 have some input about where, you know, where we are
11:14:33 going to do that.
11:14:34 And what is the total number, 1800 foreclosure?
11:14:39 >>> 1800 foreclosures and within Sulphur Springs
11:14:41 there's over 300 currently.
11:14:43 >> And you are estimating how many, with this budget
11:14:48 you are proposing, how many homes?
11:14:50 >>> Total 110.
11:14:51 We hope that there will be more.
11:14:54 If I may, how far, address the intent of the
11:14:56 legislation.
11:14:57 I wish that this was legislation that helps keep
11:14:59 people in their homes.
11:15:00 But that was not the way the legislation was drafted.
11:15:03 They are trying to address where you have vacant
11:15:07 houses in neighborhoods.

11:15:08 And that's why they call it the neighborhood
11:15:10 stabilization program.
11:15:13 Frankly, I don't want to say we are lucky because we
11:15:15 have 1800 bank-owned foreclosures but there are a
11:15:18 number of communities throughout the country where
11:15:20 they would have loved to have seen only 20 to 40%
11:15:23 vacancies.
11:15:24 Some of them are seeing 60 and 80% vacancies and they
11:15:27 are causing some significant crime and other concerns.
11:15:29 So this is a portion of what the federal government is
11:15:31 doing.
11:15:32 Hopefully they will do more to be able to keep people
11:15:35 in their homes.
11:15:36 >>MARY MULHERN: But aren't those vacancies mostly due
11:15:39 to the foreclosures?
11:15:40 >>> Well, it's foreclosed abandoned property is what
11:15:43 the focus of this program is.
11:15:44 >> Okay.
11:15:46 I would like to make a motion that we set a workshop
11:15:59 at our next opportunity.
11:16:00 >>> There is already an update at the January workshop
11:16:04 meeting.

11:16:04 We can certainly add that on.
11:16:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:16:10 And invite the neighborhood come to that.
11:16:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, Mr. Miranda has not spoken.
11:16:14 I recognize him.
11:16:15 But we have already spent about 40 minutes on this one
11:16:18 item, and you still have a long agenda.
11:16:24 I just want to make you aware of that.
11:16:27 Councilman Miranda.
11:16:33 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to have a workshop in
11:16:35 January.
11:16:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: the issue is that this has to be
11:16:37 approved today.
11:16:39 We are going to have a workshop but this has to be
11:16:41 approved today.
11:16:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:16:46 Let me say that I understand what you're trying to do.
11:16:48 And I commend you and Sharon in your department.
11:16:52 When you look at foreclosures, the federal government
11:16:57 sent 13.6 million or will send if it's approved.
11:17:00 Based on that even if you move the decimal over you
11:17:03 have 136 million and if you move the decimal again and

11:17:06 you add 1.3 billion, you still couldn't solve the
11:17:11 problems we have today in this area.
11:17:13 So Wan we have to do is do what we have with the money
11:17:16 that we are going to get and do it right, because
11:17:18 there is no second chance.
11:17:20 No one is going to buy a vacant lot, build a house on
11:17:23 it when you have on either side a dilapidated building
11:17:25 that was built in 1918, 1920, 1925, that the only
11:17:31 thing that is left that's holding it up is the
11:17:33 strength of the termites that is are there now.
11:17:36 So when you think of a different mode, and your
11:17:39 department has been to Sulphur Springs, has been to
11:17:41 East Tampa, has been to certain sections of West
11:17:43 Tampa, to do what you did best, to recognize the areas
11:17:50 that need the most attention right now.
11:17:52 I want to say that this country is heading in the
11:17:56 wrong direction.
11:17:58 Bailouts and bailouts and bailouts is no longer
11:18:01 democracy.
11:18:01 What we are trying to do is help.
11:18:04 You're right, absolutely correct, that if this would
11:18:06 have been given in another mode, to help those who are

11:18:10 in the homes now to maintain themselves, it would have
11:18:12 been a much better program.
11:18:14 However, you and I and the rest of this council didn't
11:18:16 do that.
11:18:17 That's not -- it was money brought in, with certain
11:18:20 attachments to it, and that's how you have to do it.
11:18:24 I'm not here to debate who has a priority to set
11:18:27 standards and so forth.
11:18:29 I'm here to understand that there's $13.6 million that
11:18:34 we are either going to take or not take.
11:18:35 And I think that's the question today.
11:18:37 Tomorrow's and the January meeting of the workshop
11:18:41 that you alluded to would be the proper venue to
11:18:44 discuss how it's to be spent.
11:18:48 I think when you look at 100 homes, or 110 homes, you
11:18:52 can look at it with one eye closed and the other eye
11:18:55 open or vice versa, and if 100 or 1 some percent
11:19:00 better off than you are today because something is
11:19:03 being done and I like to see things being done, not to
11:19:06 sit and just wait till tomorrow.
11:19:08 The avenue that is we have taken here to help the most
11:19:11 blighted areas -- and those what they are -- and the

11:19:14 neighborhood that is being called sustainability, to
11:19:19 sustain that neighborhood in the best condition that
11:19:21 we can afford, and those what is being done.
11:19:24 You have identified them in the areas where they need
11:19:26 to be.
11:19:27 You have identified three areas primarily.
11:19:29 And I would imagine that your staff has done an
11:19:32 adequate and professional job like they always do, to
11:19:36 make sure that the money is being well spent.
11:19:40 I think that will happen in the January meeting that
11:19:42 we have, when you bring in this, that and the other.
11:19:45 I urge all council members to maybe go on a tour of
11:19:48 their own, and look at what you have done, and trail
11:19:53 what you have said.
11:19:54 It's incumbent upon myself to make sure that this
11:19:57 money is spent and that the money is turned over so
11:20:00 that jobs are created, and with jobs you can stay in
11:20:03 your affordable home.
11:20:04 Without jobs, you can't.
11:20:06 And when I said the word affordable homes,
11:20:08 Mr. Chairman, it's this.
11:20:10 If you look at what you just said, the number that was

11:20:12 thrown be out earlier, what are affordable homes
11:20:16 selling for now in the city?
11:20:21 >>> Well, 150 to --
11:20:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It's not too much difference.
11:20:25 City usually sells the lots or works on an agreement
11:20:29 for the first-time buyer and does this thing at a very
11:20:33 minimal amount, the homes are built for 100, 105,000,
11:20:36 sold for 150,000, and that's what this is all about.
11:20:39 This is to get people back in a room, in a house that
11:20:42 has the American dream to own your own house.
11:20:46 Unfortunately, for various things that you and I and
11:20:49 the rest of us here have never had the opportunity to
11:20:52 work in and to participate, the country is not heading
11:20:56 in the right direction.
11:20:57 Hopefully under a new administration and things of
11:20:59 that nature that have happened here recently, it will
11:21:02 have a turn-around.
11:21:03 And I think this is a first part of a turn-around to
11:21:08 make the neighborhood sustainable so that further
11:21:11 decay doesn't happen and home values continue to go
11:21:13 downward.
11:21:15 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

11:21:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
11:21:18 Okay.
11:21:19 Let me just make a couple statements and then a couple
11:21:22 of questions.
11:21:23 One is, I think what councilman Dingfelder raised is
11:21:26 process is one of the things, as well as under the
11:21:31 charter the -- under the charter, and the
11:21:34 administration authority.
11:21:35 I think it's a valid one.
11:21:37 I'm a firm believer when it comes to that charter.
11:21:42 We govern ourselves according to the charter.
11:21:45 And if there's a problem, that didn't happen here
11:21:47 then, that needs to be addressed.
11:21:49 I agree wholeheartedly with that.
11:21:51 Because we should not as an executive branch, as a
11:21:54 legislative branch, and we have to mach sure that we
11:21:57 function under the authority, under the charter.
11:22:00 And so raising that question, it does have to be
11:22:07 addressed.
11:22:08 Secondly, I will say that in terms of briefing, I
11:22:12 think Ms. Miller may have briefed me maybe three or
11:22:15 four weeks ago, I think it was, I know at least three

11:22:19 weeks.
11:22:20 >>> And I will be back before you with a specific
11:22:23 plan.
11:22:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yeah.
11:22:24 Three weeks, we talked about it.
11:22:26 I raised my questions and concerns with regards to
11:22:29 that.
11:22:32 I don't know whether other council members were
11:22:34 afforded that.
11:22:35 Well, I had a question.
11:22:37 The difference with me is I'm on the affordable
11:22:41 housing task force for the county so I was aware the
11:22:44 county got 19.1 million, I was aware before, I had a
11:22:48 briefing from the city that the city was getting 13.6
11:22:51 so I asked for a briefing on that.
11:22:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm not criticizing you.
11:22:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm just saying.
11:22:56 So I appreciate that, Ms. Miller, from my standpoint
11:23:01 of being informed, and being able to address those
11:23:03 questions.
11:23:04 So with me being on the affordable housing task force
11:23:07 with the county, the second point, you are talking

11:23:10 about 13.6, when you talk about the 110 houses, the
11:23:14 county is getting 19.1.
11:23:19 You try to go 110, from 110 to 140 units with 19.1
11:23:25 million.
11:23:26 Okay?
11:23:27 So I'm just telling you all, you know, it sounds like
11:23:30 a lot of money, and individually would love to have 13
11:23:35 million, you're right.
11:23:36 And in the scope of things is not a lot of money when
11:23:39 you start talking about property, and taking them and
11:23:44 trying to rehab them, so forth and so on.
11:23:46 I just want us to be aware of that.
11:23:48 I think the county has their public hearing November
11:23:51 6th on their 19.1, Ms. Miller, as well.
11:23:55 So from that standpoint, from my standpoint anyway,
11:24:02 that discussion with the administration, with Mrs.
11:24:04 Miller and also with the press conference that you had
11:24:06 last Thursday.
11:24:09 And I appreciate that, that Sulphur Springs, out there
11:24:12 in that area.
11:24:13 And I will tell you that I think the city and the
11:24:15 county working together on this, because they looked

11:24:18 at university community area and the city looked at
11:24:21 Sulphur Springs so you are talking about a connection
11:24:23 there, you know, on trying to really address the
11:24:26 broader community from the county, moving to the city,
11:24:28 so that would be some consistency and continuity that
11:24:32 will help those areas.
11:24:33 And I do applaud that.
11:24:35 Okay?
11:24:36 I want to follow up and say, in terms of a trust fund,
11:24:41 do we have a trust fund for affordable housing, or the
11:24:44 opportunity, or some way that this money, that's
11:24:48 coming in now, could be turned over and over, and put
11:24:52 back some kind of way?
11:24:54 I'm not sure that we have that.
11:24:55 >>> It is mandated by the federal regulations that if
11:24:59 it is what they call program revenue that it has to
11:25:02 come back into this purpose for the same purposes.
11:25:07 There is a certain timing on that.
11:25:08 If it comes back in at a much later date after the
11:25:11 four or five-year time period, then it goes back to
11:25:13 treasury.
11:25:14 So we do intend, it required by the regulation, that

11:25:17 it come back into the program and get reused under
11:25:20 certain regulations.
11:25:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Does the city have a trust fund set
11:25:24 up, established for affordable housing?
11:25:27 >>CINDY MILLER: There is not a separate trust fund,
11:25:29 no.
11:25:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Has that been looked at by the
11:25:31 administration?
11:25:32 >>CINDY MILLER: We have looked at it.
11:25:34 However, our source of funding historically has been
11:25:36 the home and ship funds that we have been utilizing
11:25:40 and, frankly, we have most of those allocated.
11:25:43 Again just under the regulations that we are required
11:25:46 to follow, if money comes back in, say a property is
11:25:50 sold and get money back it has to be for the same
11:25:54 purpose, you cannot use it for anything else other
11:25:56 than housing.
11:25:57 >> Right.
11:25:57 >> In effect we have set it up where it is a revolving
11:26:00 account.
11:26:00 But we don't call it a trust fund.
11:26:04 But we have had no other sources money other than home

11:26:06 and SHIP in the past.
11:26:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's important we move forward today.
11:26:13 I think the county was on a much tighter deadline than
11:26:16 the city was, as I understand.
11:26:18 But it's important we move forward with that.
11:26:19 And also that this has to meet the approval of
11:26:24 Washington.
11:26:24 Is that right?
11:26:26 >>> It does.
11:26:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So whatever happens, has to meet
11:26:29 approval of Washington and then come back to us, I
11:26:31 guess in future meetings, workshops, then we can look
11:26:34 at.
11:26:35 >>> Thank you for bringing up the county partnership.
11:26:40 It helped that the county was ahead of us by a couple
11:26:42 of weeks, because that way, last week, when we were
11:26:46 finalizing these documents, and believe me, my staffer
11:26:48 is going crazy for how many times I wanted to review
11:26:51 the documents to get them right, we were able to know
11:26:54 what the county had basically resolved so that we
11:26:56 could have that partnership with the city boundary, so
11:27:00 it was helpful they were advance of us by a couple of

11:27:03 weeks.
11:27:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: One other question, if I could.
11:27:07 The land banking is a million dollar out of this 13.6,
11:27:13 the planning and administrative costs is 1.3 million
11:27:16 or 10%, land banking looks like it's about 8% of the
11:27:20 total 13 million.
11:27:23 When I look to see what land banking meant, land
11:27:27 banking according to your document, Ms. Miller, says
11:27:31 that we are going to carry 40 lots for up to five
11:27:34 years, and we are going to pay $5,000 per lot per year
11:27:41 for those to -- as carrying costs for those 40 lots.
11:27:48 And, you know, I know when we acquire lots, we have to
11:27:52 mow them, okay.
11:27:53 And I know we need to sometimes pick up garbage off of
11:27:55 them when people dump garbage on them inconsiderately.
11:27:59 But for each of those comes out to $100 a week per lot
11:28:07 for each of those lots.
11:28:09 That just seems exorbitant.
11:28:12 And I don't understand it.
11:28:14 And maybe you could explain it a little better.
11:28:16 >>> I believe the best way, we also have to pay
11:28:19 ad valorem taxes on those properties, because they are

11:28:21 not really coming off the tax rolls because they will
11:28:23 go back on the tax rolls.
11:28:27 >> Pay taxes on city owned lots while they are --
11:28:30 >>> Yes, because they are not being used for general
11:28:32 public purpose.
11:28:33 They are being used to return to housing so we do have
11:28:35 to pay ad valorem taxes.
11:28:37 If you have it for housing and you are going to keep
11:28:39 it for housing, it does not get exempted in the
11:28:41 intervening years.
11:28:43 >> For the county taxes or for our own taxes or both?
11:28:46 >>> All of the ad valorem taxes.
11:28:48 Everything you see on the trim notice.
11:28:51 >> Okay.
11:28:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena and then we
11:28:53 need to pass this and move.
11:28:55 It's 25 after.
11:28:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to thank Mr. Dingfelder for
11:29:01 bringing up the policy issue and to me the biggest
11:29:03 policy issue which we will grapple with in the future
11:29:05 is given the need dollars, given the breadth of the
11:29:08 need, do we strategically try to affect more property

11:29:11 with rehab?
11:29:13 Or do we affect fewer properties, perhaps through
11:29:16 construction?
11:29:17 I'm not asking for.
11:29:19 Answer:
11:29:20 I think that council has a role to play in that
11:29:22 decision making, hearing from the community what their
11:29:26 concerns are, and moving forward, because given the
11:29:30 resources are limited, which is the higher value?
11:29:33 And years ago, prior to me being on council, which is
11:29:37 quite some time ago, the city has an initiative in the
11:29:40 60s to put duplexes in Sulphur Springs.
11:29:43 It turned out to be the worst public decision that I
11:29:45 am aware of.
11:29:46 And we have been paying for it in a variety of ways
11:29:49 since.
11:29:50 We really never want to make a decision like that
11:29:52 again.
11:29:53 And I'm just saying that I think that there is value
11:29:57 to discussion with the citizens from the neighborhood,
11:30:01 with council members, and with the administration, to
11:30:03 figure out how best to stretch our limited dollars.

11:30:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I need a motion to approve items 48
11:30:10 and 49.
11:30:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
11:30:13 >> Second.
11:30:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to amend the motion
11:30:16 slightly.
11:30:17 And the only reason I want to do it is I want us to be
11:30:19 able to continue to put our nose under the tent and so
11:30:24 my motion would be that we'll approve this contingent
11:30:27 upon our ability to reserve the right come January or
11:30:33 thereabouts, to revisit the program and to be able to
11:30:38 direct staff to do a further amendment to our
11:30:42 application.
11:30:43 So, in other words, let not come in and get our
11:30:46 standard very professional briefing from Cindy in
11:30:50 January and feel good about it.
11:30:51 Let make sure that we reserve the right based upon
11:30:54 this motion to come back in January and continue to be
11:30:57 able to tweak it both from the types of things that
11:31:00 Ms. Saul-Sena and others have talked about.
11:31:02 So that would be my modification to the motion, is,
11:31:06 yes, let's approve it.

11:31:08 Let's forward this application up there.
11:31:10 Let's reserve the right to be able to further amend
11:31:14 this document to the feds at a later date.
11:31:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, that's of course raises a
11:31:23 question.
11:31:26 I was going to raise a question with legal or Ms.
11:31:29 Miller.
11:31:29 >>CINDY MILLER: The consolidated plan which it's
11:31:32 amending is under the purview of the council to
11:31:34 approve any amendments that come forward.
11:31:36 So, yes, it is under your purview to have this brought
11:31:39 back up again.
11:31:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: On the amendment, I have no problem
11:31:43 with it.
11:31:43 It takes four votes from this council to change and
11:31:46 amend anything that we do.
11:31:48 However, again I can only tell but myself.
11:31:51 I would rather see 100 or 110 fixtures or homes or
11:31:57 whatever done right than top see 250 done halfway.
11:32:01 Thank you.
11:32:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I agree.
11:32:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just clarify on the motion,

11:32:06 though, because are you place ago substitute motion on
11:32:09 the table?
11:32:10 Or you are asking --
11:32:15 >>> I accept it as the maker.
11:32:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the motion is made that we go ahead
11:32:21 and approve these two items and the caveat is we in a
11:32:27 future meeting come back, we will have the opportunity
11:32:29 to amend what is brought before us.
11:32:32 >>CINDY MILLER: One other thing, the substituted
11:32:35 document is what you are --
11:32:36 Yes, approving the substituted document that was
11:32:38 submitted.
11:32:39 Okay.
11:32:39 All in favor of the motion signify by saying Aye.
11:32:42 Opposes? Thank you very much.
11:32:43 Okay.
11:32:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That was 41 and 42.
11:32:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 48 and 49.
11:32:51 Why don't we try to get some of these people out of
11:32:54 here?
11:32:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Second reading.
11:32:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We did all of those.

11:33:00 I think we have a couple staff issues here.
11:33:08 Item 87 is pretty much a resolution.
11:33:10 Can we go ahead and pass that?
11:33:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Move the resolution.
11:33:15 >> Second.
11:33:17cilman Dingfelder.
11:33:20 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:33:22 Opposed same sign.
11:33:23 Okay.
11:33:23 Item 88.
11:33:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to receive and file.
11:33:29 >> Second.
11:33:29 (Motion carried).
11:33:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 89.
11:33:32 Receive and file.
11:33:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to receive and file.
11:33:35 >> Second.
11:33:35 (Motion carried).
11:33:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So moved and ordered.
11:33:39 Item number 90.
11:33:44 Okay.
11:33:47 Legal department to appear on noise.

11:33:53 >> I get a sense from council you are on a schedule so
11:33:56 I will be brief on this issue.
11:33:57 We did go to the police department and legal
11:33:59 department, look into the usual you raised by a
11:34:03 gentleman at a prior council meeting regarding a noise
11:34:06 complaint.
11:34:08 My understanding is the police department did follow
11:34:10 up with Mr. Chavis and let him know there had been a
11:34:16 response to the complaint, but in the transcript of
11:34:20 calls you can see he indicated he didn't need to be
11:34:21 contacted afterwards, so he was not aware of the
11:34:25 apparently of the response.
11:34:29 And if anybody would Luke to see it we have those
11:34:31 transcripts in the police report and the whole detail.
11:34:36 But what you really asked for I think was response on
11:34:39 what standards would apply and we do have actually two
11:34:44 different standards, one that was adopted by council
11:34:46 that would apply in that area which is the city
11:34:50 ordinance 14-151.
11:34:53 Mr. David Shobe actually in our office prosecutes
11:34:57 violations of that.
11:34:58 He is actually in hearings today and was not able to

11:35:00 be here.
11:35:01 But basically it sets a standard that the police would
11:35:04 be required to use a monitor from a certain distance
11:35:07 away, measure that over five minutes, to actually
11:35:10 issue a citation.
11:35:12 As you might expect, the typical reaction from the
11:35:15 police before they do that is to go and knock and
11:35:18 investigate the disturbance, and that was actually
11:35:22 what happened at the issue in question.
11:35:29 The county also under the Environmental Protection
11:35:31 Commission has a separate set of standards.
11:35:35 They typically do not respond in the evenings.
11:35:38 They do not have the staff.
11:35:42 They are more focused on industrial noise and they
11:35:45 measure over a longer period of time using a sound
11:35:48 measuring device.
11:35:49 And they also would have jurisdiction here, we
11:35:55 believe, and the county would prosecute those
11:35:57 violations.
11:35:58 My understanding is that in either event the fine
11:36:00 would be $500 for violation in both instances, a
11:36:05 warning is required before an actual citation is made.

11:36:12 Briefly, that's the regulation of noise within the
11:36:14 city.
11:36:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The problem isn't that we don't
11:36:18 have an ordinance.
11:36:19 Problem is that the police don't recollect nice that
11:36:22 we have an ordinance and feel compelled to act on it.
11:36:25 So the question is, how do we as a council encourage
11:36:28 the administration to have the police respond to
11:36:32 citizens complaints like this?
11:36:35 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Well, my understanding -- and I
11:36:37 can give you a copy of the transcript and the police
11:36:39 report -- is the police did in fact respond.
11:36:42 And we have that.
11:36:44 Perhaps there was another noise event later in the
11:36:47 evening after the police had left.
11:36:52 And I can provide you with a copy of the transcript of
11:36:55 the call and a copy of the police report.
11:36:57 But they did in fact respond.
11:36:59 >> What we heard from the citizen was that they
11:37:02 didn't.
11:37:04 It's a communication -- it activating the police to be
11:37:07 responsible on behalf of citizens.

11:37:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Not taking action on that, right?
11:37:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to just request that
11:37:16 you share this information again with Chief Hogue to
11:37:18 share with all the police that we really want them to
11:37:20 be responsive to citizens concerns on this point.
11:37:23 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: And you can give you copies of
11:37:26 background information.
11:37:27 Thank you.
11:37:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:37:30 Opposed?
11:37:31 Okay.
11:37:32 Item 91, 92.
11:37:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just procedurally, I think we have
11:37:43 heard pretty loud and clear from the folks at T.H.A.N.
11:37:46 and I've heard from some others in the community, that
11:37:52 they didn't feel very involved in terms of this
11:37:57 settlement agreement, and whether or not it's true,
11:37:59 exactly true, whatever, it doesn't really matter.
11:38:02 That's what they said to us.
11:38:06 And I also think that this is extremely complex and
11:38:10 seems to be a little bit of a moving target pause this
11:38:12 was just sort of a subsettlement with Westshore over

11:38:16 the last week or so.
11:38:17 There's a very big issue here about the digital
11:38:27 billboards which I think is a major, major issue about
11:38:29 where those digital billboards could or should go in
11:38:32 the future, and that sort of thing.
11:38:42 Instead of spending a lot of time on this, if we
11:38:44 schedule a workshop to be one of those workshops where
11:38:47 the public can participate, and did it in January,
11:38:52 after the affordable housing workshop which Mrs.
11:38:59 Miller just mentioned, I think it would give everybody
11:39:04 time to really, you know, give Julia time to get with
11:39:07 T.H.A.N., give us a little more time to think about
11:39:10 these issues especially the digital sign issues, and
11:39:14 maybe have a better understanding of where these
11:39:16 things are going to end up.
11:39:17 The only thing we would need to do in order to
11:39:19 accommodate that is, Ms. Mulhern, there's a workshop
11:39:22 on there about local vendor preference, worker's comp
11:39:25 clause and livable wage.
11:39:26 I'm just wondering if we could bounce that out of the
11:39:28 January workshop and put it into like March or April
11:39:31 or something.

11:39:35 >>MARY MULHERN: I think that's the one we had in
11:39:37 January and February.
11:39:38 We can take it off.
11:39:39 Is that right?
11:39:41 So we could replace that in January with the signs.
11:39:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Before we do, that let me hear from
11:39:50 the attorney on this issue.
11:39:54 If it's time sensitive.
11:39:57 >>> Well, we are conferring with the representatives
11:39:59 of CBS and clear channel right now.
11:40:03 My sense of our negotiations is that there is some
11:40:08 urgency in getting this done, and how much of a delay
11:40:17 would not release the pressure we have built up to get
11:40:21 this done at this point, I think is what Julia is
11:40:24 talking about right now.
11:40:25 So if you can just give us a moment.
11:40:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is a very significant issue.
11:40:37 And it's a policy change under the guise of a
11:40:44 settlement agreement, and I'm disappointed that the
11:40:46 legal department, after negotiating it, before
11:40:50 bringing it to us, didn't engage the public and really
11:40:54 go over this at greater detail with the public and

11:40:57 with council.
11:40:58 And I don't think it fair to the public and to our
11:41:02 community to be pressured into a very significant
11:41:06 quality of life decision and frankly has been going on
11:41:15 longer than ten years, and suddenly we have to do in
11:41:18 the two months?
11:41:18 I don't think that's appropriate.
11:41:20 Council is just seeing this now.
11:41:25 >> May I respond, Mr. Chairman?
11:41:27 >> Yes.
11:41:27 >> My understanding this was brought to you in
11:41:29 January.
11:41:30 There was a shade meeting on this topic many, many
11:41:33 months ago.
11:41:35 For economic reasons, that he would may get into in a
11:41:39 minute, there is some incentive for the sign companies
11:41:41 to come to the table more willing to make changes than
11:41:45 they were previously.
11:41:47 When it looked like we are were coming in for a
11:41:49 settlement contrary to what you were told this morning
11:41:51 we did reach out to both the president of T.H.A.N. and
11:41:54 Westshore alliance, a number of other groups.

11:41:57 Now, whether the individuals that were here this
11:42:01 morning learned about it quickly, as they would have
11:42:05 liked, I can't speak to that.
11:42:06 But we did, we have had extensive meetings with
11:42:10 various different community representatives, and if I
11:42:16 could just confer with Julia for a second, I can tell
11:42:19 you whether a continuance to January would be
11:42:23 something that we could recommend or not.
11:42:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And while you are conferring, I
11:42:27 have been looking for a map.
11:42:29 There's a lot of language here.
11:42:30 But I have been looking for a map that would say, you
11:42:33 know, where these signs are being removed from and
11:42:36 where these signs are potentially going to, you know.
11:42:40 And I haven't seen that either.
11:42:45 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: And you are correct that as part
11:42:46 of this concept is that where they are going to is
11:42:49 something that is not being nailed down in this
11:42:51 agreement.
11:42:52 It's creating an envelope, if you will, as to where
11:42:56 they could go.
11:42:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is there a map showing the

11:42:59 potential envelope for that?
11:43:02 Where those 200-foot zones are or aren't?
11:43:05 >>> We don't have that, no.
11:43:08 >> And that creates a huge problem for me that I think
11:43:11 possibly could be cured by January because then you
11:43:15 all will be able to take the language, say this is
11:43:17 where we think these zones might be.
11:43:19 But, boy, to try to dig through this again, I spent
11:43:22 another hour on this last night just trying to -- and
11:43:26 Julia has done a good job of explaining it as it goes
11:43:29 along.
11:43:30 I'm not criticizing her.
11:43:31 I'm just saying it's extreme lip complex for us, the
11:43:34 neighborhoods are in the dark about it, at least on
11:43:35 the whole.
11:43:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's go get to a continuance to
11:43:43 January.
11:43:43 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: What I have been informed is the
11:43:46 one party, CBS, would be willing to continue to
11:43:48 January.
11:43:49 Clear channel is not willing to commit that they will
11:43:51 be in the same posture in January that they are today.

11:43:54 And I'm going to be very blunt.
11:43:56 My understanding is they have some opportunities to
11:43:58 generate revenue for the Super Bowl, and they see this
11:44:02 settlement agreement as an opportunity to allow that
11:44:05 to occur, and that is the leverage that we have at the
11:44:08 moment to get this done.
11:44:11 So I will leave it up to your discretion.
11:44:15 We have a settlement agreement before you that we
11:44:17 think is good.
11:44:20 As Councilwoman Saul-Sena said it is a significant
11:44:23 change in policy.
11:44:24 There is no question about that.
11:44:25 But it does resolve long standing litigation, it has
11:44:28 significant exposure to the city.
11:44:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me suggest, since our last meeting
11:44:33 is the 17th of December, let me suggest that we
11:44:37 bring it back the 17th of December, and in the
11:44:41 meantime, the committee do that and with clear
11:44:45 channel, see if you can further resolve it, bring it
11:44:48 back the 18th, that gives them to move forward,
11:44:53 Super Bowl is not till February 1st, I think, so
11:44:56 that still allows some time there, and at the same

11:44:58 time it does not -- gives you some additional time,
11:45:03 almost 30 days.
11:45:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think that's a reasonable
11:45:06 compromise.
11:45:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Let's set it at 1:30 so people
11:45:09 don't have to wait.
11:45:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: May I just bring to your attention
11:45:13 that at 1:30 on the 18th you have nine wet zoning
11:45:16 hearings and an appeal of the VRB set for 1:30.
11:45:21 You presently have three staff reports.
11:45:24 You can leave it at whatever time you wish as long as
11:45:27 you have an understanding of how you wish to approach
11:45:29 it.
11:45:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I was going to say to council that
11:45:31 between now and the end of the year, our last meeting,
11:45:33 we need to be careful about having -- I understand our
11:45:37 next meeting we have 28 public hearings?
11:45:39 28 public hearings, not including all the other items
11:45:41 that we set today.
11:45:43 So it's going to be extensive.
11:45:44 So you need to be careful by adding additional
11:45:47 meetings.

11:45:48 But I think this one is very critical and important
11:45:51 that we go ahead and set this -- for the 18th.
11:45:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's do it in the morning.
11:45:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Since we are talking about signs, I
11:46:01 don't want to be remiss and say that there's some pole
11:46:04 signs all over the city that are on the rights-of-way,
11:46:07 maybe on the person's property, that come over the
11:46:10 right-of-way, and part of West Tampa is starting to
11:46:12 look like a fair ground.
11:46:14 And there's also the city being hypocritical in
11:46:17 allowing all these pole signs in the downtown area and
11:46:21 Dale Mabry and in Boy Scout Boulevard, and no one does
11:46:25 anything about it.
11:46:26 So when we are looking at signs, let's not be
11:46:30 blind-sided and single-minded on one aspect.
11:46:34 Signs are everywhere.
11:46:35 Are they good or bad?
11:46:36 That's the question that we are going to do.
11:46:39 But those signs have been a detriment to my eyes and
11:46:43 to a lot of peoples eyes, and the poor people who are
11:46:46 paying to have their advertising, you can't even read
11:46:49 who they are.

11:46:51 And they are paying for that.
11:46:53 And I mean it's on city property.
11:46:54 >> The banners?
11:46:58 >> Yes, on the right-of-way, on city property on a
11:47:01 pole owned by Tampa Electric, sponsored by -- it's a
11:47:04 waste of money, but that's just me.
11:47:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the compromise is that we can have
11:47:11 this on the 18th, in the meantime you can meet
11:47:14 with the representatives from both CBS, clear channel,
11:47:19 and also with T.H.A.N.
11:47:19 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I may, Mr. Chairman, we have
11:47:22 checked with clear channel.
11:47:24 Their position is basically they will only commit to
11:47:26 this agreement if we go forward today.
11:47:30 That's not to say that they are going to pull it if we
11:47:32 don't go forward today.
11:47:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, Mr. Fletcher --
11:47:35 >> I'm just communicating.
11:47:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You can tell them I not going forward
11:47:40 today.
11:47:40 It may go forward on the 18th.
11:47:42 You give them that message.

11:47:43 >> I will.
11:47:44 They have asked that F they can address council on
11:47:46 that issue if that's your pleasure.
11:47:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The other critical thing that I
11:47:51 think we need so that we can be in a decisive posture
11:47:54 on the 18th, we need to see a map of where these
11:47:59 signs could potentially be relocated.
11:48:02 I would like to see some information on the City
11:48:08 Council of Los Angeles and their feelings on this
11:48:12 point.
11:48:12 They voted for it.
11:48:13 Now they are trying to undo it.
11:48:16 And I would like to know what the cost differential is
11:48:19 for an advertiser, advertising on an L.E.D. sign
11:48:23 versus a vinyl sign, because I think throws a direct
11:48:26 correlation between the trade-off which currently if a
11:48:29 sign is $4,000 for a vinyl sign and there's seven
11:48:33 L.E.D. signs in the same location, then that would
11:48:36 affect the differential whether it's a three to one
11:48:38 trade-off or maybe seven to one trade-off.
11:48:41 I think that is very germane information to our
11:48:46 decision making so I would like to request that our

11:48:48 staff provide that to us prior to the meeting on --
11:48:52 But what I would suggest is that Julia, or whoever do
11:48:56 a briefing with council members ahead, those that
11:48:59 desire a briefing, brief them beforehand so that we
11:49:02 won't have all these questions.
11:49:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I throw one other thing into
11:49:06 the mix?
11:49:07 As I was reading this yesterday, for the third time,
11:49:09 just trying to get a handle of what it really meant,
11:49:13 the digital sign issue jumped out at me, and I said it
11:49:18 in the past, that right now we are precluding all
11:49:21 billboard signs from downtown.
11:49:22 Right?
11:49:23 Isn't that part of the view corridors?
11:49:27 And, I mean, I understand maybe you don't want regular
11:49:30 billboards.
11:49:31 But what I'm thinking is that why not allow the
11:49:34 digital billboards downtown?
11:49:37 In appropriate locations? Maybe not right across the
11:49:39 street from a residential condominium where you keep
11:49:42 people up all night.
11:49:43 But if you have got blank garage walls that maybe

11:49:47 might have an interest in digital billboard, it might
11:49:51 create a little bit of vibrancy to downtown.
11:49:54 And so to the gentlemen in the back, with the two
11:49:59 companies, you know, between now and December, that
11:50:03 might be something that you might want to put in as an
11:50:05 option for part of these tradeoffs.
11:50:09 Because I sure as heck would like to see digital stuff
11:50:12 downtown as compared to the potential for digital in
11:50:14 our residential areas.
11:50:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
11:50:20 Then we need a motion on the continuance.
11:50:23 You had your hand up.
11:50:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I was just going to make the motion.
11:50:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So you are making a motion.
11:50:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Is this a continuance?
11:50:30 >> Continuance, yes.
11:50:31 To the 18th.
11:50:32 >>MARY MULHERN: To the December 18th.
11:50:37 10:30 staff.
11:50:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion is a continuance on these
11:50:39 two items 91 and 92 to 10:30 staff time.
11:50:43 Okay.

11:50:43 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:50:46 Opposes?
11:50:46 Okay.
11:50:50 Item 93.
11:50:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, if I could, because I
11:50:53 made this motion to put this on last time.
11:50:56 93, the two gentlemen from U-Haul are in the back.
11:50:59 They spoke to us at the beginning of the meeting.
11:51:01 Basically in a nutshell, I think the best thing to do
11:51:04 with this is to direct our zoning staff to meet with
11:51:09 these gentlemen, to -- I think we need to have U-Haul
11:51:15 locations continue in our community.
11:51:16 And for various reasons, which I don't think we need
11:51:19 to get into.
11:51:20 And I'm not just saying U-Haul.
11:51:22 U-Haul, Ryder, whoever is doing it these days.
11:51:25 Society direct staff to visit this, get it into the
11:51:28 January set of zoning code amendments and bring it
11:51:33 back to us with their recommendations.
11:51:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:51:37 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
11:51:42 We have already started to do some research because

11:51:45 quite frankly Eric Cotton on our staff has met with
11:51:48 them on many occasions.
11:51:49 >> And they are in code enforcement violation.
11:51:51 >>> Correct.
11:51:52 And we have done some preliminary research and N some
11:51:55 surrounding communities, still waiting on responses
11:51:57 from a couple.
11:51:57 And this type of usage is pretty much so far atypical
11:52:03 in AP CG zoning district or comparable zoning
11:52:05 district.
11:52:06 I'm trying to understand, are you directing myself to
11:52:08 actually draft the regulation and bring it forward?
11:52:10 Because typically with a private entity it would be a
11:52:13 privately initiated amendment such as the one that is
11:52:16 are coming forward from Dave Mechanik and James -- it
11:52:20 puts myself in a very precarious position when I bring
11:52:23 something forward --
11:52:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm not doing it for U-Haul, I'm
11:52:29 doing it for that whole business sector.
11:52:31 And I think that our code needs to somehow or other
11:52:34 reflect the fact that we will accept these type of
11:52:37 uses in these CG zonings.

11:52:42 That they can continue to operate those businesses.
11:52:44 >> Just to give you a background on our commercial
11:52:46 general district, it is very specifically for general
11:52:50 commercial usage, open storage is not allowed, parking
11:52:53 of commercial vehicles is not allowed in that manner.
11:52:59 It is very much a broadening of that entire district,
11:53:01 and commercial general districts proliferate through
11:53:04 all of our smaller corridors, like MacDill Avenue,
11:53:08 like Armenia, like any of those smaller corridors have
11:53:12 commercial general as a community mixed use, land use
11:53:16 category.
11:53:17 >> Cathy, you're brilliant.
11:53:19 You can figure this out.
11:53:21 >>> I'm just saying it does go against --
11:53:24 >> It's a special use and have them come in and apply
11:53:26 under a special use.
11:53:27 >>> You could potentially.
11:53:29 Are there any characteristics you think would you want
11:53:32 to limit?
11:53:33 Number of vehicles?
11:53:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
11:53:36 All those reasonable things that you will come up.

11:53:38 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Okay.
11:53:40 Thank you.
11:53:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So what's the motion?
11:53:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Cathy?
11:53:45 Give us a proposed suggested motion.
11:53:47 And I'll make it.
11:53:49 >>CATHERINE COYLE: For the January 2009 cycle, motion
11:53:51 staff to bring forward an amendment looking at
11:53:54 allowing truck leasing and rental and trailer rental
11:54:00 within a CG district special use --
11:54:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Homeowner truck leasing and rental.
11:54:07 I mean not commercial truckers.
11:54:11 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Okay.
11:54:12 Non-semi, I guess, within the CG, special use 2.
11:54:17 With specific criteria limiting the area of the land
11:54:21 that can be occupied, limiting the number of vehicles
11:54:23 ha that can be stored on the property to be leased.
11:54:26 And additional criteria.
11:54:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I make that motion.
11:54:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You have to read the motion exactly
11:54:34 that way.
11:54:35 [ Laughter ]

11:54:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Leasing of automobiles.
11:54:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't think that's the intent.
11:54:48 They can have automobiles attached to the front of
11:54:50 them.
11:54:50 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Talking about trucks.
11:54:54 I'm talking about a passenger car.
11:54:56 Can they lease them from those spots?
11:54:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't think that's --
11:55:01 >>CATHERINE COYLE: You need to make the distinction it
11:55:03 is commercially for commercial trucks not including
11:55:06 semis.
11:55:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Commercial trucks for residential
11:55:11 moving.
11:55:11 Because I don't want us to get into where those big
11:55:17 truck companies, they might be straight lien trucks
11:55:20 but they rent to other commercial companies.
11:55:24 >> You might be crossing the loin into the regulating
11:55:27 the operator itself, because I can't say that a small
11:55:30 business won't gone into a U-Haul place and rent a
11:55:33 26-foot truck.
11:55:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, that's true, too.
11:55:39 What we are really looking at is limiting the size and

11:55:41 capacity of those trucks.
11:55:44 Not an 18 wheeler essentially.
11:55:46 >> And if they have 24.
11:55:49 >> Trucks up to a certain length.
11:55:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Generally I approve of helping the
11:55:55 industry and creating the viability of small business.
11:56:00 However, I want to make sure that we don't create
11:56:04 Pandora's box in areas like West Tampa, and areas of
11:56:08 that, and I don't know how much CG zoning is there.
11:56:11 And I don't want to see an additional pressure put in
11:56:16 the neighborhoods throughout the city where all this
11:56:19 is not being happening now, but this is an avenue,
11:56:23 like now people that are not in banking or can get a
11:56:30 bailout, I don't know what.
11:56:32 But these are things happening and I don't want to see
11:56:34 this happening in East Tampa and West Tampa
11:56:36 especially, in every aspect of the city.
11:56:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And that's why Cathy mentioned
11:56:43 about making it an SU process so every one would have
11:56:47 to come in individually for a public hearing.
11:56:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And that's perfectly agreeable.
11:56:55 >>MARY MULHERN: When are we scheduling this?

11:56:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: She's bringing it back in the
11:56:59 January cycle.
11:57:00 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Within the January cycle.
11:57:02 >>MARY MULHERN: It will be a staff report so we can
11:57:03 have -- there will be public notice.
11:57:06 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes.
11:57:07 Normally what I do is, as you recall, Catherine Coyle,
11:57:11 land development, I hold two public information
11:57:12 meetings, one before your offerings workshop and one
11:57:14 after to let them know what's going to the Planning
11:57:17 Commission and I would probably bring this sometime in
11:57:20 March or April to your workshop to discuss all of the
11:57:23 amendment that is have to be in that cycle.
11:57:24 >> Then neighborhood associations.
11:57:28 The public information, the neighborhood associations.
11:57:29 >>CATHY COYLE: They are notified of the meetings.
11:57:32 They are held in this chambers actually.
11:57:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion, moved by Cathy Coyle --
11:57:39 [ Laughter ]
11:57:40 Moved by councilman John Dingfelder, seconded by
11:57:46 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
11:57:49 All in favor?

11:57:50 Opposes?
11:57:51 Okay.
11:57:52 Council, it's 12:00.
11:57:53 We do have Robin Nigh who has several items pulled by
11:57:59 councilman Dingfelder.
11:58:01 >>GWEN MILLER: She's been sitting here a long time.
11:58:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think I can deal with them three
11:58:07 minutes each.
11:58:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, hers is ten minutes.
11:58:10 She has a ten minute presentation.
11:58:12 I suggest he would take care of the other items.
11:58:14 Ten minutes is what you voted on.
11:58:23 >>MARY MULHERN: We made her move it so she could have
11:58:25 her ten minutes.
11:58:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, then we can do that.
11:58:31 Other items Mr. Dingfelder you pulled?
11:58:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm looking for them.
11:58:35 >>MARY MULHERN: 22, 23, 24.
11:58:42 >>> The items you pulled were number 4.
11:58:44 We can start with that one if that would be all right.
11:58:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Than the question I had on 4, this
11:58:53 is the Soho residential parking permit program.

11:58:55 It's going to be -- I talked with Mr. Cueva this
11:59:00 morning.
11:59:00 He answer sod of my questions about different things.
11:59:03 My questions are answered.
11:59:05 I'm ready to read that.
11:59:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you want to move it?
11:59:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move it.
11:59:12 Do I read it?
11:59:13 Move an ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida
11:59:16 amending the City of Tampa code chapter 15 section
11:59:19 15-104 residential parking permit only area to provide
11:59:22 for residential parking permit only area located in
11:59:25 the Courier City and Oscawana neighborhoods providing
11:59:28 for repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
11:59:31 effective date.
11:59:31 >> Second.
11:59:33 (Motion carried).
11:59:34 >>THE CLERK: Second reading and adoption will be held
11:59:41 on December 4th at 9:30 in the morning.
11:59:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: On 22, this is about the chiller.
11:59:47 The chiller that's being paid for out of the U tax
11:59:55 money and CP money.

11:59:56 I have a little concern that we are paying for this
11:59:59 out of U tax money which is sort of general fund money
12:00:01 and I was hoping that all this Tampa museum stuff was
12:00:04 going to come out of the other one, CIT.
12:00:08 But my question is on this one, this chiller only
12:00:13 mention itself Tampa museum.
12:00:14 I thought we were going to use the chiller for both
12:00:17 the Tampa museums an the children's museum.
12:00:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name for the record.
12:00:22 >> Dave Vaughan, contract administration.
12:00:24 Long, long ago, the ability of the children's museum
12:00:27 to tie into the chiller was made available.
12:00:29 They elected not to do that.
12:00:32 And are constructing a chiller within their own
12:00:35 building.
12:00:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess that's their prerogative.
12:00:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you want to move that?
12:00:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move that.
12:00:41 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question on that.
12:00:43 I didn't pull it because Mr. Dingfelder did.
12:00:49 David, I was going to ask you, I remember this
12:00:52 chiller -- this is at least the third time it's come

12:00:54 in front of us.
12:00:56 So because I know we were told originally that they
12:00:59 were going to share that.
12:01:07 Then I remember you saying, no, we are we were not
12:01:10 going to share that, the museum was going to do it.
12:01:13 I thought we already voted to allow the museum to have
12:01:15 their own chiller.
12:01:16 >> What these items do is allow the contractor to
12:01:19 actually purchase the equipment and construct it.
12:01:22 Previous items before you had dealt with lease
12:01:24 agreement, as well as designer selections and things
12:01:27 like that.
12:01:27 This is the item that actually allows it to be built.
12:01:34 >>MARY MULHERN: There's a long list of the-oh R-I
12:01:37 guess they are amendments -- or I'm not sure what.
12:01:40 But I don't have a site plan or anything.
12:01:41 So I'm just trying to understand what the change is as
12:01:46 far as -- where is the chiller going?
12:01:48 And also this is a separate question.
12:01:51 But how is the funding changing, the funding sources?
12:01:57 And the bottom line is, are we allowing more for this
12:02:01 purchase?

12:02:03 Less?
12:02:03 Is it the same?
12:02:06 >>> David Vaughan: I'm not sure which question to
12:02:09 answer first.
12:02:10 The chiller itself is going to be located in an area
12:02:16 to the west of the museum.
12:02:20 It going to be kind of nestled in the embankment down
12:02:24 from the railroad and Cass Street, going to be
12:02:27 landscaped, Mr. Balsley had participated in its
12:02:30 positioning in the park, it will be back from the
12:02:33 river, it does not interfere with any of the access to
12:02:38 or from the riverwalk, and that's where it's going to
12:02:45 go.
12:02:45 >> Is that where it was going to go the last time we
12:02:48 voted on this?
12:02:49 Because I thought it was going on the roof or the
12:02:51 garage.
12:02:51 >>> We have looked at a number of locations over the
12:02:53 years in trying to develop this.
12:02:57 Originally, there was avoid in the Poe Garage that we
12:03:01 thought it would fit.
12:03:02 It does not fit there.

12:03:03 When we looked at the structural modifications that it
12:03:06 would take to put it in Poe, and how it would
12:03:10 affect -- it doesn't work there either from a
12:03:13 structural standpoint or from a financial standpoint.
12:03:16 And so this is where we wound up with in terms of a
12:03:22 place that it would fit, would not interfere with the
12:03:25 park and actually kind of an unused portion of the
12:03:28 park that you can't use for anything else.
12:03:30 >> So it's going in the park.
12:03:31 So it's city-owned land.
12:03:32 >>> Yes.
12:03:35 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm not sure that -- we get people
12:03:40 here all the time from neighborhoods saying they don't
12:03:42 want the huge noise that the air conditioning units to
12:03:46 be on the street, and we are putting kind of putting
12:03:49 it in the -- I don't know what the alternative -- I
12:03:55 don't think that's what, you know -- I guess you
12:03:58 talked about putting it in the garage at one point.
12:04:03 Then we changed, the plan was to have the two museums
12:04:07 share it.
12:04:08 Where was that second alternative that it was going to
12:04:11 go?

12:04:13 >>> At the time, I believe in every previous time when
12:04:18 we have come to you for actions on this item, our
12:04:21 first preference was to put it associated with the
12:04:24 garage.
12:04:27 So that has not changed through this evolution.
12:04:30 But those locations to not work.
12:04:31 >> Well, is there -- why don't they work?
12:04:35 >> As I explained previously, physically, they don't
12:04:38 fit, and/or they require structural modifications or
12:04:43 change in the configure of the garage.
12:04:45 It simply not cost effective or possible for to us do.
12:04:48 >> So what is the -- what is the bottom line then in
12:04:55 this change?
12:04:55 Are we saving some money?
12:04:56 We are doing a change order.
12:04:57 >>> We are bringing forth to you the best location
12:05:01 that we can find at the best price in a location that
12:05:04 has been participated by our designers and agreed upon
12:05:07 both between the museum and the park designers as the
12:05:11 best place for it to go, and at the best price we can
12:05:14 get it.
12:05:18 >>MARY MULHERN: That's not a bottom line, though.

12:05:20 I'm asking you, we approve these.
12:05:23 Are we spending more than we agreed to, or less?
12:05:29 Or the same?
12:05:30 >>> The language of the agreement did not put a dollar
12:05:32 value on the cost of the plans, that we would develop
12:05:38 them, and the cost of the plant would initially be
12:05:41 borne by the city and repaid by the museum.
12:05:43 Money that you are approving today will ultimately be
12:05:47 paid back to the city by the museum.
12:05:50 So whether that's $1 million or $2.5 million or
12:05:54 whether that's, you know, whatever that number is.
12:06:04 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Where was the chiller going to be
12:06:06 originally?
12:06:08 >>> It has lived in a number of locations.
12:06:10 The original plan and the original intent was to
12:06:13 locate it remote from the museums in the garage.
12:06:18 At various locations, under, around and through the
12:06:22 garage don't work physically.
12:06:25 >> Is there going to be additional cost because you
12:06:27 are moving it somewhere else?
12:06:30 >> There will be additional cost if we force it into
12:06:32 the garage.

12:06:34 Significant additional cost.
12:06:38 We are bringing forth to you the best location at the
12:06:41 best price.
12:06:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: That's not my point.
12:06:43 The point is if this cost you 2.5 million when you
12:06:46 originally did the plan, you are going to move it over
12:06:48 here.
12:06:50 Is that 2.5 million still going to cover the
12:06:52 installation, the electrical and everything else that
12:06:54 has to be done?
12:06:55 >>> The price we are bringing to you today is 2.5
12:06:58 million to construct it in the location that has been
12:07:02 found for it, to construct it, completely.
12:07:08 We are bringing to you the agreement to allow us to
12:07:10 build it.
12:07:10 >>MARY MULHERN: What I think councilman Caetano and I
12:07:15 are trying to find out is, is it a difference in
12:07:20 budgeting?
12:07:20 Is it a difference in, you know.
12:07:23 The decision not to put it -- I don't like the
12:07:25 decision that it's going in the park.
12:07:28 But I'm trying to understand why it has to go in the

12:07:32 park.
12:07:33 And that has to do with, I think from what you are
12:07:35 saying, just --
12:07:38 >>> It would probably cost a million dollars more to
12:07:40 put it in the in the garage.
12:07:42 >> And the museum is going to be reimbursing the city,
12:07:47 right?
12:07:47 >>> Yes.
12:07:48 >> So was this their decision?
12:07:50 >>> They are on board with this decision and our
12:07:53 agreement with it.
12:07:54 In fact one of the items that's there today is a
12:07:57 modification to their agreement -- if it weren't
12:08:01 there, we would not be here for you today.
12:08:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:08:07 There's a motion by councilman Dingfelder.
12:08:10 Seconded.
12:08:11 Moved and seconded.
12:08:12 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
12:08:15 Opposed same sign.
12:08:16 >>THE CLERK: Mulhern voted no.
12:08:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The other items was the reclaimed

12:08:21 water issue 31 and 32.
12:08:23 Steve, I don't want to belabor this today.
12:08:26 I read the backup.
12:08:27 It looks like we are studying the Bayshore, we are
12:08:29 studying Curtis Hixon, getting reclaimed to those two
12:08:33 areas.
12:08:33 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator, public works utility
12:08:36 services.
12:08:36 What this item does is allows us to start the
12:08:39 preliminary engineering for star 2 and Bayshore.
12:08:42 That's what this amendment 3 does.
12:08:45 >> But it wasn't the original Star going out into the
12:08:51 residential or was it?
12:08:53 >> Yes.
12:08:53 Talking about the original Star 2 as it was conceived
12:08:56 before and Bayshore, yes.
12:08:58 >> Because for a while we had kind of shelved the
12:09:01 residential component of star 2 but now we are
12:09:03 thinking about it again?
12:09:05 >> We would like to move forward with reclaimed.
12:09:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And the other part so we don't have
12:09:10 to belabor it today is -- Sandy, are they scheduled to

12:09:18 come back to us for -- do we sort of have quarterly or
12:09:23 semiannual row claim discussions?
12:09:27 >>> I have done a briefing not too long ago but I
12:09:30 think, yes, either quarterly or three times a year, up
12:09:34 update on reclaimed.
12:09:35 I would be glad to talk to you individually or
12:09:38 collectively.
12:09:38 >> No, we need to have the community involved in this.
12:09:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
12:09:43 I really believe -- and I appreciate the time that we
12:09:46 spent here today, reclaimed in my mind is the most
12:09:49 important thing in the next ten years for the City of
12:09:51 Tampa.
12:09:52 And it matches or might even exceed transportation.
12:09:57 Because without having this, you will stymie the
12:10:01 city's growth on portable water on an asset that is
12:10:05 diminishing because of population.
12:10:06 I don't know if we call it Star 1 or Star 2.
12:10:11 I think I would like to change to the TRS, Tampa
12:10:14 reclaimed system, because it's going to be broad,
12:10:17 instead of making it small, let's make it larger.
12:10:20 And I applaud you and maybe you can get the

12:10:22 administration to start talking about TRS, Tampa
12:10:26 reclaimed system.
12:10:27 That's the only suggestion I have, Mr. Chairman.
12:10:33 >>MARY MULHERN: Along those same lines, and what
12:10:35 councilman Dingfelder had asked, where are we with the
12:10:40 plan, the master plan?
12:10:42 Because we were told it was a master plan in the
12:10:46 works.
12:10:47 >>> It absolutely is, the January-February time frame
12:10:51 we should be coming back to you with the results of
12:10:52 that.
12:10:52 >> With a final plan?
12:10:55 >>> Yes, ma'am.
12:10:55 >> Okay, good.
12:10:57 I just want to mention that I heard that Tampa Palms
12:10:59 is having their -- they are trucking in reclaimed
12:11:06 water.
12:11:08 So hopefully we are looking into --
12:11:13 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I have been asked by some
12:11:14 residents who have fountains in front of their house,
12:11:17 why can they have the reclaimed water truck in?
12:11:22 Why can't I go buy reclaimed water or everyone bottled

12:11:25 water?
12:11:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You can buy reclaimed water.
12:11:29 >> Can they put in the their fountain?
12:11:31 >>> There's probably no exception in the ordinance but
12:11:33 we could create an exception in the ordinance.
12:11:36 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Because I'm asked every Friday
12:11:37 morning.
12:11:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to approve.
12:11:40 >> So moved.
12:11:44 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: You mentioned earlier about items
12:11:47 67 and 70 which had to do with funding for 40th
12:11:50 Street.
12:11:51 For your planning we expect to be able to open up the
12:11:53 second part of the bridge on 40th Street mid-December,
12:11:56 so before the holiday, and we'll get that information
12:11:59 to you.
12:11:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
12:12:01 So all those watching the second phase of the bridge
12:12:04 will open mid December.
12:12:06 Right before Christmas.
12:12:07 What a wonderful Christmas gift.
12:12:09 Thank you.

12:12:10 It's good news.
12:12:11 Okay.
12:12:11 A motion.
12:12:12 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
12:12:14 Opposed same sign.
12:12:16 We have one thing left.
12:12:17 And that's Ms. Neigh.
12:12:19 And she requested ten minutes.
12:12:21 Okay.
12:12:23 >> Robin Nigh, and I would like to update you on the
12:12:28 Lights on Tampa program.
12:12:30 If you could bring up the PowerPoint, please.
12:12:32 As you can see, it starts on January 10th, 2009.
12:12:38 We have been working diligently on it.
12:12:40 We have brought together a great group of partners and
12:12:43 a wonderful production of artists.
12:12:46 You will see, I just wanted to go over quickly with
12:12:49 you --
12:12:51 Ms. Neigh, let me make sure that we are going to go.
12:12:55 I'm concerned.
12:12:57 Is it better to have her come back at 1:30, do you
12:12:59 think?

12:13:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
12:13:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I mean, I think she deserves the board
12:13:08 so I would suggest 1:30.
12:13:10 >>> I have a conference call at one anyway.
12:13:21 So that will work.
12:13:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I can set you up at 1:30.
12:13:26 And then we'll take our appeals, we have our 1:30
12:13:30 items.
12:13:30 So we'll put you up at 1:30 and then we'll take the
12:13:33 other items after that.
12:13:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We'll be more attentive.
12:13:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We stand in recess until 1:30.
12:13:41 Thank you.
12:13:41 (City Council meeting recess)

13:34:24 [Sounding gavel]
13:34:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
13:34:27 order.
13:34:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
13:34:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
13:34:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:34:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
13:34:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
13:34:43 It's, is 30 on this matter.
13:34:45 Do you want to proceed, Ms. Neigh?
13:34:48 We told you 1:30.
13:34:49 I like to be a man of my word.
13:34:51 >> Thank you, councilman Scott.
13:34:53 Robin Nigh with the arts program division.
13:34:56 I would like to thank you for this opportunity to
13:34:58 brief you on Lights on Tampa.
13:34:59 There's a lot of excite things that are going on.
13:35:02 As you know it starts January 10th, 2009, and I
13:35:05 want to kind of give you a sense of where we are in
13:35:08 time in terms of planning, our education program, as
13:35:10 well as where the sights are.

13:35:14 If I could have the -- thank you.
13:35:20 Briefly, what we have got is Lights on Tampa, and five
13:35:25 artists, although it looks like as of today we might
13:35:29 have five artists on five sites.
13:35:32 Here briefly are the locations.
13:35:34 You can see three of them are right around actually --
13:35:37 three of them around the convention center, and one of
13:35:40 those might move to another location.
13:35:42 We have another project in Cotanchobee park and a very
13:35:47 large projection very similar to what Jorge ORTIZ on
13:35:54 the south hall of the fort Brooke parking garage.
13:35:57 This is going to be, I think, a favorite by many,
13:36:01 certainly very much enjoyed.
13:36:03 This is an 8-story facility, and there will be a
13:36:06 number of slides or images that will change throughout
13:36:09 the evening.
13:36:14 The nice thing about this particular project is it
13:36:15 will start as I mentioned but he have night from dusk
13:36:19 to about 11:00 and continue all the way to February
13:36:22 1st.
13:36:31 Friedrich Foerster.
13:36:37 For he is ton ward is a local artist.

13:36:39 He is bringing a significant amount of content of
13:36:42 which we will be able to incorporate into our program,
13:36:46 lots of lovely images of the environment, his subject
13:36:49 is focusing on Tampa Bay, and why it's called Tampa
13:36:52 Bay, what it's about, what's in it and so on.
13:36:56 This is really the start of something we are really
13:36:58 excited about in terms of building this content and
13:37:01 being a real resource.
13:37:03 One of our partners also for this particular project
13:37:05 is the University of South Florida, called the Florida
13:37:09 center for instructional technology.
13:37:17 And that particular web site gets well over a million
13:37:21 and a half hits a day.
13:37:22 So we will be able to pull and tap into that
13:37:25 information and really kind of help spread our
13:37:28 information to learners.
13:37:31 Marina Zurkow is an artist who is doing an animation,
13:37:37 a 20-minute animation, and she again, like Carlton,
13:37:39 the artist before Marina, focusing on the environment.
13:37:43 It's just a very different type of process, as you can
13:37:46 see. She just moved by anime.
13:37:49 She'll be bringing a lot of interesting kind of

13:37:53 thoughts, based on some literary text.
13:38:02 One thing is that after Lights on Tampa it will also
13:38:05 live on the Internet, and it's going where the people
13:38:14 are and that's really important.
13:38:16 If you want to get to the viewers you have to pay
13:38:18 attention to how they use space and so on, and if they
13:38:21 are on the computers, that's the great way to reach
13:38:23 out to them.
13:38:24 And that's certainly what our intent is on this
13:38:26 project.
13:38:28 Chris Doyle with the Tampa Convention Center is making
13:38:32 installation that will actually wrap around the
13:38:34 convention center.
13:38:35 That will be very much, even along the back of the
13:38:39 riverwalk and into the park and he's been in town a
13:38:44 number of times doing research and speaking with the
13:38:46 engineers on that.
13:38:47 Now, another project that is really very interesting
13:38:50 is in Cotanchobee park, a project with an
13:39:02 international company that is based locally, they are
13:39:04 also Super Bowl host committee sponsors.
13:39:06 So we have kind of merged with installation together.

13:39:09 This particular artist will also be engaging the
13:39:13 Internet in which viewers Will Pappenheimer via the
13:39:27 Internet.
13:39:27 We also have expanded projects we are exploring as the
13:39:30 program has grown and visibility also has grown, and
13:39:33 people wants to be a part of it.
13:39:36 We have a sister project with -- this is their project
13:39:43 but we are very much helping mold it and shape it and
13:39:45 bring in some local artists.
13:39:47 What we are doing is a number of artists will be
13:39:51 making sculptures for the various teams, and they will
13:39:54 be auctioned off with the proceeds going to habitat,
13:39:57 and they are really intended to build a house, that
13:40:02 Goodell would like to see come to result.
13:40:05 We also have a sister project called satellite in
13:40:08 Channelside and this is a project that will be
13:40:10 bringing an additional eight to ten artists into the
13:40:13 Channel District with rear screen projection and
13:40:17 video.
13:40:19 The education is really quite impressive.
13:40:23 We are working on plans.
13:40:26 It will have a news and education insert with the

13:40:28 St. Pete Times that will also be in the TBT.
13:40:32 We are developing a workshop with the University of
13:40:35 Tampa.
13:40:37 And we are also going to have an artist symposium.
13:40:40 This is something we really wanted to do last time but
13:40:43 didn't have a chance to put it all together but we'll
13:40:45 have an artist symposium at Tampa Theatre, in addition
13:40:48 to our first catalogue, although I will say the
13:40:51 catalogue will live online and that also saves not
13:40:54 only on costs but saves some trees as well, and all of
13:40:56 the education material will be accessible to the
13:40:59 Internet.
13:40:59 We are very, very thrilled with.
13:41:01 This we really want to get it out to the teachers.
13:41:03 It's a pleasure that you might like to know as well
13:41:05 that much of our educational material that was created
13:41:09 in 2006 is actually still being used.
13:41:12 It's very encouraging to see that that's happening.
13:41:19 The events, we'll have some wonderful events with
13:41:21 that.
13:41:21 There will be a sponsor party on Wednesday the 7th
13:41:24 in addition to the symposium which was just mentioned

13:41:27 on the 8th.
13:41:28 And then the switch is flipped on January 10th,
13:41:32 2009, either at 6:30 or dusk, whichever comes first.
13:41:36 And all of the installations which I'm really happy to
13:41:39 report to you will be up through February 1st.
13:41:43 And some will be permanent.
13:41:45 Others will become permanent through the Internet in a
13:41:49 very different way.
13:41:51 Now, what you see here is the same site that you saw
13:41:53 before, but the circles are just where portions of the
13:41:56 public event will be and we have some wonderful
13:42:01 partners helping to make this possible and that
13:42:03 includes of course the downtown partnership, and
13:42:05 bringing in various musical talent and it should be a
13:42:09 wonderful event for the community.
13:42:11 Statistics, anticipated reach, by calculations we are
13:42:15 expecting that each installation should reach at least
13:42:18 200,000 people a day, and marketing is being partnered
13:42:24 again with the Tampa Bay and company and Hillsborough
13:42:28 County tourist development council in association also
13:42:31 with the arts council of Hillsborough County, and we
13:42:34 have already received calls.

13:42:36 I'm delighted again to report to you that we received
13:42:38 calls from Vero Beach and some other communities in
13:42:41 the south Florida area asking to set up tours, because
13:42:43 they want to come here for the opening of lights on.
13:42:46 So it's been a real positive response we are getting
13:42:50 within and outside the community.
13:42:52 Broadcast reach is significant, not only have
13:42:56 electronic press kit for the media, local and from out
13:43:01 of town media, but we will also be -- the ring that
13:43:07 you saw, the Super Bowl ring, will be picked up, it
13:43:10 looks like, by ESPN so there's a partnership that
13:43:14 really pushes this out to a much, much wider audience,
13:43:16 which is again very, very exciting.
13:43:19 All projects will be accessible through various
13:43:22 opportunities, various methods of reach, that includes
13:43:25 of course the Tampa GOV web site, face book, some
13:43:33 things on ewe tube, and we want to roach as many
13:43:36 people as possible.
13:43:38 Our partners, you can see we have lots of wonderful
13:43:43 partners than have made it certainly possible.
13:43:45 With the economy the way it is, it's really pretty
13:43:48 miraculous to be bringing all of this together, and I

13:43:51 must extend -- it wouldn't happen without the private
13:43:53 sector, certainly, as well as with the council, but
13:43:56 with the city and the mayor's support.
13:43:59 It's just a great thing.
13:44:01 So many responses we are getting from across the
13:44:04 country of people trying to emulate how we do it.
13:44:06 And it's just high praise.
13:44:08 So with that
13:44:09 I would like to say thank you very much and ask if you
13:44:11 have any questions.
13:44:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena and councilman.
13:44:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ding probably about a dozen
13:44:20 questions.
13:44:21 I'm just kidding.
13:44:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: City Council sitting as a Community
13:44:25 Redevelopment Agency has put some CRA money toward
13:44:29 this in the Channel District, and that is a perfect
13:44:34 way for us to be engaged and supportive.
13:44:36 But I hope that you will remind us, the weekend of the
13:44:41 symposium right before the thing kicks off on
13:44:44 Saturday, maybe you could come back to council that
13:44:46 morning to just remind us and the public what's going

13:44:51 to be going on.
13:44:52 >> I would be happy to.
13:44:53 >> This is so exciting.
13:44:54 It's going to give us such great exposure nationally,
13:44:57 internationally and be a fun free thing for our
13:44:59 residents.
13:45:00 >> I would be happy to.
13:45:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
13:45:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I was just kidding.
13:45:05 I seem like the grinch when it comes to this.
13:45:10 It's nice to see you have a lot of partners to help
13:45:13 financially and otherwise.
13:45:15 And in terms of public art, and I'm sure it will make
13:45:17 us look good all the time, but especially for the
13:45:20 Super Bowl.
13:45:21 So thank you, Robin.
13:45:22 I appreciate your hard work.
13:45:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I came in a little late so you might
13:45:29 have already mentioned this.
13:45:30 But 2006 was the last one?
13:45:32 >>> Yes.
13:45:33 >>MARY MULHERN: Did you talk about how many people

13:45:35 were downtown on the opening night?
13:45:37 >>> On the coldest night of the you're, we had over
13:45:40 20,000 people just downtown.
13:45:41 It was really wonderful.
13:45:42 It was a great community event and lots of people
13:45:45 still continue to talk about it.
13:45:47 They say -- you could really tell how much people
13:45:50 enjoyed community events.
13:45:52 >>MARY MULHERN: It was really cool to be -- everybody
13:45:56 walking around downtown.
13:45:57 And I just wanted to bring this up to remind all the
13:46:01 bars and restaurants to be open, because people were
13:46:06 walking around and were ready to at least buy a cup of
13:46:10 coffee or a beer or something but with nowhere to go.
13:46:13 Hopefully all the restaurants downtown will stay open
13:46:17 and take advantage of this.
13:46:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
13:46:32 Item 95.
13:46:32 We need to open the public hearings for all of the
13:46:35 items, it 5 through 101.
13:46:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 95 is a continued public hearing.
13:46:40 Maybe just take up that item first.

13:46:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to continue item 95.
13:46:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
13:46:54 So moved.
13:46:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My understanding is they want to
13:46:57 continue this item, though.
13:46:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Porter, I believe, is here if
13:47:00 council wishes.
13:47:01 >>> Jim Porter, rude and McClosky.
13:47:06 We are prepared to go forward today.
13:47:08 Mr. Steenson sent you a letter requesting this item be
13:47:12 continued.
13:47:12 We don't object to that.
13:47:14 It doesn't impact our permitting so we are happy to
13:47:16 request a continuance based on the sun Bay south civic
13:47:19 association's request.
13:47:20 We'll place that into the record.
13:47:22 We'll ask for a continuance to February 19th.
13:47:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question.
13:47:29 I'm willing to make the motion.
13:47:31 Mr. Porter, without going into great detail, what
13:47:34 happened with the D.O.T. challenge and issue as regard
13:47:37 to egress and ingress?

13:47:39 >>
13:47:39 >> I want to make it clear for the record, that's
13:47:42 unrelated to our request today but I would be happy to
13:47:44 provide you an explanation of that.
13:47:45 We are seeking a wet zoning request.
13:47:48 D.O.T. issued a notice of intent to issue a permit
13:47:52 that wasn't satisfactory as far as access.
13:47:55 So we challenged that.
13:47:56 We are working out a settlement agreement with them.
13:47:59 We have agreed in concept to our access on Gandy, and
13:48:02 we are in the process of drafting the settlement
13:48:04 agreement.
13:48:04 But as you all know, dealing with D.O.T., that takes
13:48:07 awhile to have that finalized.
13:48:09 But we have agreed in concept, we have explained that
13:48:11 to Mr. Steenson and we hope to be back in February
13:48:14 with that done.
13:48:15 Again it's unrelated to our request, but in the sense
13:48:18 of being good neighbors, we are as a courtesy agreeing
13:48:22 to continue it.
13:48:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Because I think the city actually
13:48:25 participated a little bit in that process as well.

13:48:27 >>> Yes.
13:48:28 >> We are trying to discourage the use or minimize the
13:48:32 use of Lois.
13:48:32 >>> That's correct.
13:48:33 And that's been resolved with the city.
13:48:35 The city is in agreement with what we are proposing
13:48:37 with D.O.T.
13:48:38 And we are hopeful that we'll be able to finalize this
13:48:40 shortly.
13:48:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
13:48:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion to continue.
13:48:44 Motion by Councilwoman Saul-Sena, seconded by --
13:48:50 >> Second.
13:48:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: February 19th at 1:30 p.m.?
13:48:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Right.
13:48:55 '09.
13:48:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If there's anybody in the audience
13:48:58 that wishes to address the continuance.
13:48:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anybody wish to address council on 95?
13:49:02 Okay.
13:49:04 Motion to close.
13:49:05 All in favor?

13:49:07 (Motion carried).
13:49:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open 96 through items
13:49:09 number 101.
13:49:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
13:49:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
13:49:18 >> Quasi-judicial.
13:49:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's anyone that's going to address
13:49:21 council on these items, please stand and be sworn.
13:49:23 If you are going to address council this afternoon,
13:49:25 please stand and be sworn.
13:49:29 (Oath administered by Clerk).
13:49:38 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
13:49:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I ask that all written
13:49:43 material that has been available for public inspection
13:49:44 inside council's office be received and filed for the
13:49:47 record prior to taking action.
13:49:49 Do you have things, madam clerk?
13:49:51 Please, by motion.
13:49:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
13:49:54 >> Second.
13:49:55 (Motion carried).
13:49:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Again, very quickly, if there's any

13:49:59 ex parte communication, council, please disclose that
13:50:01 prior to you taking action.
13:50:03 Finally, ladies and gentlemen, there is a sign-up
13:50:05 sheet outside.
13:50:06 Please be sure that you do sign that you are familiar
13:50:08 with council's rules and policies, and I'm putting a
13:50:11 sign to remind to you state that you have been sworn.
13:50:15 When you do get up here please bring that to council's
13:50:17 attention.
13:50:18 Thank you.
13:50:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 96.
13:50:20 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
13:50:22 I only have two site plans for this particular
13:50:25 application in the file.
13:50:28 Just for your reference, this is a special use
13:50:30 request, V-08-120 for 7627 west Courtney Campbell,
13:50:37 requesting a 4(COP) license.
13:50:40 This is rezoned, not too long ago, actually, and it's
13:50:45 the front part of the site along Courtney Campbell on
13:50:49 Rocky Point, on the west side.
13:50:54 This is specific for alcohol related to a hotel,
13:50:57 restaurant, lounge, banquet facilities.

13:50:59 The proposed hours of operation are seven days a week,
13:51:02 24 hours a day due to the nature of the use, there are
13:51:05 two waivers requesting the distance separation waiver
13:51:07 from residential and other alcoholic beverage
13:51:09 establishments which are listed on page 2.
13:51:12 As I noted the property is zoned PD.
13:51:15 Staff did find it consistent.
13:51:17 You will note on pages 4 and 5 are the general
13:51:21 standards for council to consider in granting this
13:51:23 request.
13:51:24 I'm available if you have any questions.
13:51:29 Just to let you know, it is actually almost completed,
13:51:33 if not completed already.
13:51:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
13:51:40 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police.
13:51:50 I have been sworn.
13:51:50 Good afternoon, council.
13:51:52 City of Tampa police has no objections to this wet
13:51:54 zone.
13:51:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
13:51:58 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I'm here on behalf of impact group
13:52:00 that developed this property.

13:52:01 You may recall this was the causeway INN that was
13:52:07 demolished and those buildings were donated to the
13:52:09 city for training purposes for the firefighters and
13:52:11 the police department.
13:52:13 This is a $8 million project.
13:52:16 It has over 7,000 square feet of banquet facilities.
13:52:19 It will employ 140 people.
13:52:22 The Ybor City Hilton Garden Inn was developed by the
13:52:27 impact group and that was one of seven hotels that
13:52:29 they have developed in the Tampa Bay area for a total
13:52:32 commitment of over $125 million.
13:52:35 It's a Westin hotel.
13:52:37 And it is a 4-star hotel in the Tampa Bay area, and it
13:52:43 will certainly be a welcome addition.
13:52:46 We are here before you requesting the wet zoning to
13:52:49 allow this had to move forward.
13:52:51 And they are currently under their inspection time
13:52:54 with the Westin hotel group for the certification as a
13:52:57 4-star hotel.
13:52:58 And once that's completed, we expect to be putting the
13:53:03 flagship name on the hotel building and have it
13:53:06 available for occupancy the first part of January.

13:53:11 This project has been a life-long dream of the impact
13:53:15 group, the largest hotel they have ever developed, and
13:53:17 they have put all of their expertise into going after
13:53:20 this style of hotel and was based on commitments that
13:53:25 they made to the City of Tampa administration to help
13:53:28 to improve and beautify the waterfront.
13:53:31 We believe this is a tasteful and excellent addition
13:53:34 to the waterfront area, and we respectfully are
13:53:37 requesting your approval.
13:53:39 >> Anyone from the public wish to address council?
13:53:42 Anyone from the public?
13:53:43 >> Move to close.
13:53:46 >> Second.
13:53:46 (Motion carried).
13:53:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Not only is this a beautiful
13:53:51 project, but sometimes we have had hotels asking for
13:53:56 liquor zoning, there's been residential uses really
13:53:58 close that it looks like a very beautiful building so
13:54:09 congratulations.
13:54:09 >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
13:54:11 Ordinance approving a special use permit S-2 for
13:54:13 alcoholic beverage sales, large venue and making

13:54:16 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol
13:54:19 regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine and
13:54:21 liquor, 4(COP), for consumption on premises and in
13:54:27 sealed containers off premises in connection with a
13:54:29 business establishment on that certain lot, plot or
13:54:32 tract of land located at 7627 west Courtney Campbell
13:54:37 causeway, Tampa, Florida as more particularly
13:54:40 described in section 2 hereof approving waivers
13:54:43 herein, waiving certain restrictions as to distance
13:54:46 based upon certain findings, providing for repeal of
13:54:49 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective
13:54:50 date.
13:54:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
13:54:54 All in favor say Aye.
13:54:56 Opposes?
13:54:58 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Thank you very much, council.
13:55:01 >>THE CLERK: Second reading and adoption will be held
13:55:03 on December 4th at 9:30 in the morning.
13:55:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 97.
13:55:24 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
13:55:25 Petition V 08-122, 1625 east 7th Avenue, requesting a
13:55:30 4(COP-X) which is the sale of beer, wine and liquor

13:55:34 restricted to on-site consumption only, no off-site
13:55:37 consumption is permitted
13:55:44 You will note that it is within the YC 1 zoning
13:55:45 district, which is the commercial corridor district.
13:55:47 The building is existing on-site and contains
13:55:49 approximately 6,650 square feet.
13:55:53 There are three waivers being requested.
13:55:56 There are numerous locations within 1,000 feet that
13:55:59 are also have alcoholic beverage permits on pages 2
13:56:04 and 3.
13:56:09 There is also residential use within 159 feet and
13:56:12 institutional uses on page 3 and 4.
13:56:17 You will note that the DOC reviewed this and found it
13:56:21 consistent with the technical requirements of the
13:56:23 code.
13:56:24 Please note in your findings and based on any evidence
13:56:26 that you hear as noted in the previous case, section
13:56:30 27-269, the general standards of the special use
13:56:33 criteria located on page 6, 7 and the top of page 8,
13:56:38 you will note on page 8, paragraph 7, potentially
13:56:43 adverse effects.
13:56:45 Council should consider those especially with the

13:56:47 evidence you may hear.
13:56:48 I believe you received a couple of letters in
13:56:50 objection with various findings made by the YCDC and
13:56:53 the neighborhood association.
13:56:55 Please refer to those pages as well to use in your
13:56:58 findings.
13:56:59 Either way.
13:57:00 I'll show you really quick how the property is
13:57:03 located, at the southwest corner of 7th and
13:57:06 17th.
13:57:07 It is a zero lot line development.
13:57:09 Building is existing.
13:57:10 This is prawna.
13:57:14 This is the location here A.different angle of it.
13:57:19 You will also note that there is no waiver for
13:57:21 parking.
13:57:22 There is no parking on-site.
13:57:24 In this particular district, this particular use does
13:57:27 not require parking.
13:57:28 There are two large facilities in the area, and
13:57:32 surface parking that we talked about in the past.
13:57:34 Parking isn't required for this particular use.

13:57:36 I'm available for any questions.
13:57:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I believe there's a typo, or I'm
13:57:41 not reading it too correctly.
13:57:42 If you have 15th and 7th and the corner of --
13:57:46 17th street and 7th Avenue then it cannot be
13:57:49 on the south side north 59th street.
13:57:52 >> Looking at the map.
13:57:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Oh, the aerial.
13:58:01 >> That's interesting because that is something we
13:58:03 just had, and it automatically populates.
13:58:05 I'll look at that.
13:58:06 Thank you.
13:58:10 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
13:58:15 department.
13:58:16 City of Tampa police department has in objections to
13:58:18 wet zone.
13:58:20 When I established my report, there were no complaints
13:58:24 at the time.
13:58:24 Soon thereafter the YCDC did send some letters of
13:58:28 opposition and you will probably hear some of that
13:58:31 testimony.
13:58:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

13:58:33 Petitioner?
13:58:38 Joseph Diaz, office 2522 West Kennedy Boulevard, and
13:58:42 everybody sworn.
13:58:47 Mr. Chairman, I'm here today on behalf of Sussex
13:58:53 holdings located at the south west corner of 7th
13:58:56 Avenue and 17th street.
13:58:59 It's a building that occupies 6,650 square feet.
13:59:03 That location had previously been wet zoned 4(COP)
13:59:10 under ordinance number 91 -- excuse me, 9698.
13:59:19 At the time that it was wet zoned it was wet zoned a
13:59:22 straight 4(COP), and there were no restrictions in
13:59:26 Ybor City dealing either with sound attenuation or
13:59:28 with security.
13:59:31 My client unfortunately lost its tenant in early 2006.
13:59:37 It appeared before council to obtain an extension of
13:59:41 his then wet zoning, and it was denied.
13:59:46 As a result of it not having an occupancy, this
13:59:49 property reverted to a dry status in roughly August of
13:59:54 2006.
13:59:58 The application that's before you today, we maintain,
14:00:01 would be a less intensive use than what has been
14:00:04 authorized and in existence at this location for

14:00:07 roughly ten years, and that is they had a 4(COP).
14:00:11 We are asking for an X.
14:00:13 No package sales.
14:00:14 They did not have to deal with any security issues.
14:00:18 They did not have to deal with sound attenuation under
14:00:20 the new code.
14:00:21 We would of course have to comply with those.
14:00:23 And we stand ready, willing and able to do.
14:00:26 We don't have a problem with it.
14:00:30 If you will notice, the report that was prepared by
14:00:38 staff, that has found this application to be
14:00:41 consistent, there are approximately 53 existing wet
14:00:48 zones within a thousand square feet of this property.
14:00:56 >> Linear feet?
14:00:57 >>> Yes, sir.
14:00:59 In any direction so actually a 2,000-foot span.
14:01:05 Of those 53 wet zonings, 41 of those are straight
14:01:10 4(COP)s.
14:01:12 Four of those are 4(COP-X).
14:01:15 Two of those are 4(COP-R).
14:01:19 And three of those are 2(COP-R).
14:01:26 You have gotten a rash of e-mails, everybody saying,

14:01:29 we really don't have a problem with the wet zoning, if
14:01:32 it was a restaurant, we could support it.
14:01:39 We wouldn't vice-president any problems with it
14:01:40 either.
14:01:41 However, let me tell you what we do have problems
14:01:44 with.
14:01:44 They are telling you they are not happy with the
14:01:46 4(COP-X) wet zoning, because the property sits vacant
14:01:49 so much of the time, the it's only utilized three days
14:01:53 a week and only utilized during the evening hours.
14:01:58 For the last 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, for
14:02:02 three years, this property has sat vacant.
14:02:05 Not a single tenant, not one minute, has this property
14:02:12 been opened.
14:02:17 Now, that doesn't sound like much except when you look
14:02:19 on the tax rolls you are going to see our tax assessor
14:02:23 says this asset is worth $6,730,000.
14:02:29 Now during that three-year period, we have had to
14:02:31 insure it, we have had to maintain it so that we don't
14:02:35 get in violation of Code Enforcement Board, and we
14:02:39 have had to pay $42,000 worth of real estate taxes on
14:02:43 a completely empty piece of property with zero return

14:02:48 on our $670,000 asset.
14:02:53 We would love a restaurant.
14:02:56 We'd love somebody that's got a nice decent business
14:02:59 to come in here and operate of the.
14:03:02 And you are going to hear from Jim Jacobs the agent
14:03:05 who tells you how they screen the applicants and you
14:03:07 have got that letter from YCDC and Joe Howden and they
14:03:11 all tell you how they all you want a restaurant and
14:03:13 how they want to develop this and YCDC in its cover
14:03:17 letter, it tells you what its mission is, and the
14:03:21 mission of the YCDC is the economic and economic
14:03:26 development is to take action T to sustained and
14:03:30 widespread market actions.
14:03:32 If somebody from YCDC steps up to this microphone ask
14:03:36 them how many people they have referred to anybody
14:03:39 within the last throw years to open anything, grocery
14:03:43 store, restaurant, clothing store, whatever.
14:03:47 Not one referral in three years.
14:03:55 So while we don't question their intentions, the
14:03:57 realities just aren't there.
14:04:01 If we are going to get into another government
14:04:03 bailout, then I guess maybe we can look for some tax

14:04:06 incentives, I guess we can look for maybe the city,
14:04:09 the county, the T state, somebody to subsidize us.
14:04:14 We are not getting interest.
14:04:17 It hasn't been a matter of one week or two months.
14:04:19 It's three years.
14:04:21 Nobody has come along.
14:04:27 I don't believe he's here today but one let their got
14:04:30 in opposition we got from Brad Cooper.
14:04:33 But I have got to tell you, I found that letter to be
14:04:36 somewhat disingenuous.
14:04:38 Mr. Cooper bought his property in November of 1990,
14:04:42 and within five months from the day he bought it
14:04:44 council gave him a 4(COP) wet zoning on this property.
14:04:47 That was April of 1991.
14:04:51 We are here 17.5 years later and that piece of
14:04:54 property still has a 4(COP) on it.
14:04:56 Now I don't believe Mr. Cooper operates a restaurant
14:04:59 or bar at that location, so I guess Mr. Cooper must
14:05:04 sell one drink a month to make sure he doesn't go 30
14:05:07 days without selling alcoholic beverages so he can
14:05:09 save his 4(COP) wet zoning.
14:05:14 It must have some value to him.

14:05:18 What are we hoping to do here?
14:05:25 One of the questions that had been raised was queuing.
14:05:33 We are fortunate.
14:05:33 We are located right at the corner.
14:05:37 If in fact we would be so fortunate to have a queuing
14:05:41 scenario, we could merely just wrap down to the corner
14:05:47 of 17th and wrap southbound along 17th, and we
14:05:50 wouldn't interfere substantially whatsoever with
14:05:52 7th Avenue.
14:05:53 The queuing scenarios have existed mid-block.
14:05:56 We are at a corner.
14:05:57 We wouldn't create a queuing problem.
14:06:03 This is the front of the building.
14:06:27 This area here would be along 17th.
14:06:33 The building as it presently exists is already divided
14:06:40 into two spaces.
14:06:41 We are not going to be doing any gutting.
14:06:43 There's some mention in some of the e-mails we are
14:06:45 going to be doing gutting.
14:06:46 There is already a wall that runs right along this
14:06:51 area that separates us from this green area to the
14:06:57 blue area.

14:06:57 You do have access.
14:06:59 I don't want to mislead you.
14:07:00 But there is a wall in place.
14:07:04 If you will notice that little blue box up here, the
14:07:07 little blue box is and has been outfitted as a
14:07:11 kitchen.
14:07:12 And it will continue as a kitchen.
14:07:13 The intention is, not a full kitchen.
14:07:17 I don't want to mislead you there.
14:07:19 Pizzas, sandwiches, salads, things of that nature.
14:07:23 The intentions are that right wing spot, it would be
14:07:33 open no less than five days a week from eleven in the
14:07:36 morning till at least ten at night.
14:07:39 Because one of the things they are talking about, this
14:07:42 is a ghost town.
14:07:43 It's a real ghost town.
14:07:44 There's nobody there.
14:07:46 And they are saying at the time is hours of operation
14:07:52 as Ybor City because they are only open three days a
14:07:55 week.
14:07:55 But we are telling you that we are willing to commit
14:07:57 to tell you that we are open no less than five days a

14:08:01 week, and we'll open from eleven till ten.
14:08:05 Now, what are the intentions? The intentions are on
14:08:07 than light green area, that would be like an old
14:08:11 sports bar area that serves light food and will be
14:08:13 open for pizzas, salads, things of this nature, as I
14:08:17 say, once again from eleven in the morning till at
14:08:19 least ten at night five days a week.
14:08:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: At least ten at night? At least
14:08:24 ten at night?
14:08:27 You are not offering to close every night at ten at
14:08:29 night.
14:08:30 >>> Mr. Dingfelder, we are not a restaurant, okay.
14:08:33 We are asking for a 4(COP-X).
14:08:35 Our request is till 3:00 in the morning like all the
14:08:37 other establishments up and down 7th Avenue.
14:08:40 So no, sir.
14:08:41 The complaint that I've heard is --
14:08:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's okay.
14:08:44 I just needed clarification.
14:08:45 >>> The hours that we would be requesting are the
14:08:49 hours that you can legally sale alcoholic beverages in
14:08:53 Hillsborough County, City of Tampa, from eleven to

14:08:55 three.
14:08:58 But we are telling you that we would open that area
14:09:01 and guarantee that we would open that area no less
14:09:03 than five days a week from eleven till three -- excuse
14:09:06 me, from eleven till ten.
14:09:10 The western part of the structure would be a martini
14:09:16 bar type scenario.
14:09:25 There would be a display screen along this portion of
14:09:27 the wall, and there would be like a VIP area in the
14:09:32 back of the building.
14:09:34 I believe if you look at the YCDC letter as well as
14:09:51 the letter that came from the Ybor City -- it
14:09:55 basically centered around four major objections.
14:10:02 Queuing, as I've told you, I think we are very
14:10:05 fortunate, given that we are on a corner, we can queue
14:10:11 along 17th.
14:10:12 We wouldn't create a problem.
14:10:14 Crime.
14:10:15 Look, as to crime or as to queuing, who better to
14:10:18 speak about either one of those two issues than TPD?
14:10:22 And TPD in its report has indicated that they have no
14:10:28 opposition whatsoever

14:10:35 While I hear the comments from these various analysis,
14:10:37 the report submitted by TPD says the police department
14:10:40 has no objection to this wet zone, the district has no
14:10:44 opposition to this wet zone.
14:10:52 The next issues that were raised were the hours of
14:10:57 operation, and they all indicated they could support
14:10:59 us if we were a restaurant, but they had problems with
14:11:02 supporting us as an X.
14:11:08 We are not requesting an "R."
14:11:10 We are not a restaurant.
14:11:12 We are an "X."
14:11:14 That's what we are asking for.
14:11:17 We haven't had any intent, desires, expressed by
14:11:22 anyone to open a restaurant or anything retail at that
14:11:27 location.
14:11:32 I think it safe to say we are going to have some
14:11:34 opposition here, and so I guess I might like to save
14:11:37 some of my time for the opportunity to respond.
14:11:41 I would like to point out that you may be hearing
14:11:44 about the number of wet zonings within our block.
14:11:50 Look at the information that the surveyor furnished.
14:11:54 Within our block, there are six wet zonings on the

14:11:58 south side.
14:12:01 On the next block, that is the block that Brad Cooper
14:12:05 has his art gallery, there are six zonings on the
14:12:08 north side and four on the south side.
14:12:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, just a point to petitioner, you
14:12:27 will have five minutes rebuttal.
14:12:29 Anyone wish to address council may come forward at
14:12:32 this time, state your name and address for the record.
14:12:35 You have three minutes to speak.
14:12:39 >>> John Varcote, 1301 burns lake drive.
14:12:45 >> Are you going to be hearing opposition before
14:12:48 support?
14:12:49 >> Anyone who wants to come forward at this point.
14:12:51 Either way.
14:12:52 Anyone who wants a chance to speak.
14:12:53 >> Burns lake drive.
14:12:55 I also own -- I have been sworn in.
14:12:57 I also own king corner cigars at 1523 East 7th Avenue.
14:13:02 And I'm also a member of the board of the YCDC.
14:13:07 I have before me a letter that was sent by Veronica
14:13:11 Swiatek, chairman of the YCDC and she speaks to some
14:13:18 of the points that Mr. Diaz was talking about and our

14:13:21 opposition to the petition.
14:13:28 The main thing that I would like to speak to is the
14:13:30 vision plan that was adopted by the City Council in
14:13:34 2005 which sets a direction for taking every
14:13:37 opportunity to return Ybor City to a balanced mixed
14:13:40 use district and reduce the negative impacts created
14:13:43 by a large number of wet zoning developments, and
14:13:47 that's my biggest thing is the overabundance, no
14:13:51 matter how you cut it, having an overabundance of wet
14:13:56 zonings in Ybor City.
14:13:57 I know that the police did say they don't have a
14:14:00 problem with it but I also sit on the subcommittee of
14:14:02 the public safety for the YCDC and I know that
14:14:06 virtually every meeting that we have, this particular
14:14:11 block is one of the problems that seems to me that the
14:14:14 police are kind of stumped as far as how to handle it,
14:14:17 and that particular block is the only block as time
14:14:22 gets closed at 3:00 in the morning, so it is a problem
14:14:26 and the problem is an overabundance of wet zonings we
14:14:30 already have in Ybor City.
14:14:31 And I just don't see us having another one, not adding
14:14:35 to that problem.

14:14:37 Thank you.
14:14:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:14:41 Next speaker.
14:14:43 >>> Tony Ricoll, president of historic Ybor Civic
14:14:48 Association.
14:14:49 I have been sworn N.2005 the businesses and the
14:14:52 residents put together a vision plan for Ybor City.
14:14:55 John Parker talked about it a little bit but I want to
14:14:58 read a couple statements.
14:14:59 Says the overall mix of activity should be carefully
14:15:01 monitored oh to make sure no one element dominates at
14:15:04 the expense of others.
14:15:05 Land use mix should strive for maximum diversity and
14:15:08 integration of uses with a view to creating a round
14:15:14 the clock activity cycle.
14:15:16 You know, night clubs are part of Ybor City.
14:15:18 They are always going to be a part of Ybor City.
14:15:20 But the large number of night clubs on this block have
14:15:22 really stifled development.
14:15:26 We are trying to develop retail, restaurant, services
14:15:29 of like.
14:15:31 What I refer to as services like grocery stores,

14:15:33 pharmacies, book stores, drycleaners, what have you.
14:15:37 Many of the former and current business owners on
14:15:40 7th Avenue were here long before the night clubs
14:15:42 and they blame the proliferation of night clubs on
14:15:44 their hard economic times.
14:15:48 These night clubs are very one dimensional.
14:15:51 The people to come to frequent the night clubs don't
14:15:53 spend money in the district.
14:15:55 They are not eating at the restaurants.
14:15:56 They are not shopping at the stores.
14:15:58 They are there just to go to the night clubs and
14:16:00 leave.
14:16:02 You know these storefronts are shuttered most of the
14:16:05 time.
14:16:06 I say about 90% of the time. They create a ghost town
14:16:09 effect.
14:16:09 You are walking down 7th Avenue and than the signs
14:16:12 say closed, closed, closed.
14:16:14 If you are a resident or visitor getting off a cruise
14:16:16 ship or coming off from out of town you go like, what
14:16:20 is there to do in Ybor City?
14:16:21 Why did I come here?

14:16:23 There's nothing open till at least 10:00 at night
14:16:25 three nights a week so 90% of the time Ybor is pretty
14:16:28 much dead.
14:16:30 I think that 7th Avenue can be more than a three
14:16:33 night a week activity center.
14:16:36 We need uses that are 24 hours a day, seven days a
14:16:38 week, and we encourage uses.
14:16:42 The bourbon street experiment we tried in Ybor City
14:16:45 has failed.
14:16:45 And it's time for something new.
14:16:49 It time to bring back the mixed use of Ybor City, and
14:16:53 the way to do this is to start denying wet zonings for
14:16:56 night clubs.
14:16:58 As residents we are here, we are saying enough is
14:17:00 enough.
14:17:01 We need to bring the zoning back to something that
14:17:04 benefits the residents, the tourists, the employees,
14:17:07 everybody.
14:17:08 Let me be clear, we are not against wet zoning in Ybor
14:17:10 City.
14:17:11 We are just against wet zonings for night clubs.
14:17:13 If this was going to be a restaurant or some other

14:17:16 concept that we knew was not going to be alcohol
14:17:18 related, say music venue or art venue, we would be
14:17:22 fine with it.
14:17:23 But from what we heard today, this is going to be
14:17:25 alcohol related.
14:17:25 And that's the last thing we need in Ybor City.
14:17:27 We have enough.
14:17:32 I encourage you, if the applicant would like to have a
14:17:37 COP zoning it needs to be COP restaurant.
14:17:41 I wholeheartedly support that.
14:17:43 Thank you.
14:17:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:17:47 Next speaker.
14:17:48 >>> Good afternoon.
14:17:49 Diane Costantino, president of the east Ybor historic
14:17:54 civics association.
14:17:55 We are also here to plead that you deny the request.
14:18:00 It's like we are sending mixed messages, because we
14:18:04 cooperated with the people that were handling the
14:18:06 vision plan and all we prayed for was that half of
14:18:09 these wet zonings on 7th Avenue would dry up.
14:18:12 We feel like we are sending mixed messages because

14:18:14 when come here and then ask the mayor to please get
14:18:18 parking so we can have daytime visitors to Ybor City.
14:18:20 So this is sort of like mixed messages that we are
14:18:22 sending, and we are definitely not in support of that.
14:18:28 We just feel like there are absolutely too many.
14:18:32 I know when a client came before you, it was six,
14:18:36 eight months ago that he had a building on Franklin
14:18:38 Street and he applied for the same, a 4(COP) license.
14:18:41 So it wasn't specific on to tell you what he wanted
14:18:44 there.
14:18:45 And you all said, okay.
14:18:48 I think I also runs for office a lot, too.
14:18:51 So when he came to you and said, okay, well, I want
14:18:55 this liquor license, I want it on Franklin Street but
14:18:57 I'm not going to tell you what I want to do with it,
14:19:00 and you all told him, absolutely not.
14:19:02 Without knowing the specifics and what you want to do
14:19:04 with it, we are going to deny your request.
14:19:06 So we are asking until we get a lot more specifics --
14:19:09 and again we would support almost anything other than
14:19:12 just a strict nightclub.
14:19:15 And I appreciate it.

14:19:16 Thank you very much.
14:19:23 >>> Ellen Snelling, to talk about 1625 east th
14:19:32 Avenue that would like a 4(COP-X).
14:19:35 You heard from other speakers 7th Avenue is dense
14:19:38 of clubs.
14:19:39 Back in 2004 there were 104 wet zonings with 86 liquor
14:19:44 licenses and all located within a dense area.
14:19:47 Many of these are bars and clubs, and they are large
14:19:50 venues.
14:19:51 And it has been shown that when you have a very dense
14:19:53 area where bars and clubs, that it is associated with
14:19:58 violence, different types of crime, impaired driving,
14:20:03 and one of the reasons we have the child protection
14:20:07 ordinance passed in 2004 was because of these
14:20:09 concerns, and the concerns are not during the daytime
14:20:12 seven days a week, the concerns are specifically on
14:20:15 Thursday, Friday, Saturday night from 11 p.m. to 3
14:20:18 a.m.
14:20:19 This type was requested even though as Mr. Diaz said
14:20:26 they could be open during the day with snacks and that
14:20:28 type of thing.
14:20:29 They are also going to have the large venue night

14:20:31 clubs open till 3 a.m.
14:20:32 And I really just don't think that our city needs any
14:20:36 more of these clubs.
14:20:37 And I think it would add to the problems, and to the
14:20:40 health and safety concerns of the neighborhood.
14:20:43 And Tampa alcohol coalition supports YCDC, and the
14:20:47 neighborhood association with their concerns.
14:20:49 Right now there's so many bars and clubs in Ybor City,
14:20:52 we are seeing a lot of promotions that include buses
14:20:57 to and from university of Tampa, University of South
14:20:59 Florida, they target college students oftentimes, and
14:21:03 they have to compete with each other.
14:21:05 I don't think they even start out as wanting to do
14:21:07 these things, but in order to compete, they have to go
14:21:10 after the college age group.
14:21:11 They offer these drink specials.
14:21:14 Ladies drink free.
14:21:15 Free drinks until 1 a.m.
14:21:17 A locality of the clubs now offering drinking games,
14:21:19 which is like beer pong, those types much things.
14:21:22 I just think this club could get lured into that, and
14:21:25 offer these same types of things.

14:21:28 So in order to keep the crime rate in Ybor heading
14:21:31 down like it is, I feel like we need other types of
14:21:34 venues besides the large night clubs.
14:21:36 Thank you.
14:21:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
14:21:41 >>> My name is Jim Jacob.
14:21:46 My office is 607 west Bay Street.
14:21:48 I have been sworn.
14:21:50 I am the registered agent for Sussex, two holdings LLC
14:21:55 which owns the property.
14:21:57 At 1625 East 7th Avenue.
14:22:00 I was before you back in the summer of 2006.
14:22:04 We had evicted the tenant that we had there, that had
14:22:08 acquired platforms, was club shine.
14:22:11 They did not perform under their lease so we evicted
14:22:14 them.
14:22:15 I was not as familiar as I should have been with how
14:22:18 the procedures work.
14:22:19 We filed for an extension thinking we would have a
14:22:21 replacement tenant in short order.
14:22:23 Then we didn't.
14:22:24 Then we filed for a longer extension and came before

14:22:29 council.
14:22:29 We did not have a tenant in hand.
14:22:31 And we got denied basically because we didn't have a
14:22:36 tenant in hand, and council expressed at that time
14:22:38 that the wet zoning is not an entitlement that goes
14:22:41 with the property.
14:22:42 The property is improved as a nightclub.
14:22:46 It been on the market for lease since January of 2006.
14:22:53 We have had a number of folks that wanted to go in
14:22:56 there that didn't pass muster with the owners of the
14:23:01 property who because of credit or criminal background
14:23:04 history.
14:23:07 The group that we signed a lease with in August, who
14:23:10 has filed this petition, double oh entertainment,
14:23:16 their background information was in a word Sterling,
14:23:21 which is very, very rare.
14:23:22 This year, we have been besieged by folks wanting to
14:23:26 go in there because the Super Bowl is going to
14:23:28 northbound Tampa early next year, and they wanted to
14:23:31 have the opportunity to open to take advantage of that
14:23:33 business.
14:23:41 I think we have done as much as we possibly can to

14:23:44 find a tenant.
14:23:46 The realities are, as far as the square footage of
14:23:49 this building and the way the existing improvements
14:23:52 are configured, that the very, very -- it would be
14:23:56 very, very difficult for a full-service restaurant to
14:23:58 be successful there.
14:24:00 I think if you look at Centro Ybor and what has
14:24:03 happened there, I think they are struggling, and I
14:24:09 think the biggest problem is not withstanding the
14:24:12 current fall in the economy.
14:24:16 It's very, very difficult to drive crowds to get down
14:24:20 to Ybor City.
14:24:23 I didn't know there were buses picking people up, but
14:24:26 I do know that it's a struggle in whatever business
14:24:31 you're in.
14:24:31 But as far as the folks that he would signed a lease
14:24:36 with, it has Sterling credit and has excellent
14:24:40 backgrounds, and the rent that we signed under this
14:24:43 lease is approximately half of the rent that we were
14:24:46 getting when we evicted the tenant back in 2006, which
14:24:50 just reflects the economic times.
14:24:52 The owner of the property has been responsible.

14:24:55 The city has -- we have been cited by code enforcement
14:24:59 for having left trash in the alley there. Hasn't been
14:25:02 a tenant here in three years.
14:25:05 So we put all our trash cans inside so nobody could
14:25:08 use them.
14:25:09 The code enforcement cited us for the storefronts this
14:25:12 year because of the rain we had and we fixed that.
14:25:17 We have tried to be responsible.
14:25:18 We paid our taxes.
14:25:20 We would like to get the property leased so we can get
14:25:23 some productive use out of it.
14:25:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My question to you is this: You
14:25:32 know Tampa and now what the situation has been.
14:25:35 Did you consider trying to get a different sort of use
14:25:39 into the property, like a retail, like a professional
14:25:42 office?
14:25:43 You know, in the last three years, there have been
14:25:45 some significantly large engineering and planning
14:25:48 firms that have relocated there.
14:25:51 Did you think of something other than a bar?
14:25:55 >>> Actually, the property could work equally well for
14:25:59 anybody that just needed open floor space.

14:26:02 I think years ago, Adams City was a tenant in this
14:26:07 building but the reason that the retail potentials are
14:26:11 a problem in Ybor City is primarily because of the
14:26:14 lack of density and a lack of daytime traffic.
14:26:19 I certainly understand the concerns of the residents
14:26:23 down there as far as we would like you to have a
14:26:27 restaurant with a 4(COP-R) that requires 51% food.
14:26:31 If I wanted to open a restaurant there, would it be
14:26:34 reasonable for me to ask all the residents to sign a
14:26:36 contract to eat at my restaurant so many times so I
14:26:40 could make sure that they would come eat?
14:26:42 I mean, it's that same sort of dynamic.
14:26:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My question to you was, did you try
14:26:49 marketing this as professional space or retail space?
14:26:53 >>> We marketed it as commercial space.
14:26:58 And the way the listing databases are set up, whether
14:27:04 it's the multiple listing center, leap star, any of
14:27:08 the Internet-based systems, you can enter it any
14:27:12 number of different ways, and so it comes up on more
14:27:15 searches.
14:27:16 When people are looking for space.
14:27:17 And that's the way we market it.

14:27:22 So I can tell you that we have had people -- we have
14:27:25 had two different groups that wanted to put a bar
14:27:31 there.
14:27:31 We had an antique deal theory had a fire that wanted
14:27:34 to put their business there but then they made
14:27:36 arrangements somewhere else.
14:27:38 We would be happy to lease it with anybody that had
14:27:42 good credit, no criminal background history and would
14:27:44 pay rent.
14:27:45 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to ask you or your
14:27:52 attorney a number of questions and I would like to get
14:27:54 answers on.
14:27:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, why don't we bring him back.
14:27:57 We have one more public speaker here.
14:27:59 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Okay.
14:28:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So he's part of the petitioner, I
14:28:05 believe.
14:28:06 So I will allow to you bring him back.
14:28:08 >>> Eric Shuler.
14:28:11 I have been sworn.
14:28:13 I run a restaurant and bar and own property at 1805
14:28:18 East 7th Avenue.

14:28:19 That would be Gaspar's grotto, you may recall.
14:28:22 I'm also a property owner in Ybor City and a
14:28:24 commission landlord.
14:28:25 So I feel for the vacancies and I understand that.
14:28:30 However, it's my than opinion that a lot of vacancies
14:28:34 are because of the 12 hours of activity that this
14:28:38 tenant proposes.
14:28:42 Giving the district a bad name.
14:28:45 So all I can say is, get over to the other people who
14:28:51 spoke against granting the petition.
14:28:54 I see no need for it.
14:28:56 And I have one other perspective that I would like to
14:28:59 share regarding the votes that you folks will cast for
14:29:05 or against this project.
14:29:10 When it comes to commerce, I'm very libertarian about
14:29:13 that and what people want to do to Mac that you are
14:29:17 money as long as it doesn't bother other people that's
14:29:19 okay.
14:29:19 This case I will say this and I am being presumptuous
14:29:22 to do it.
14:29:23 You will doing the owners of the business a tremendous
14:29:26 favor if you vote against this project.

14:29:31 There's a 90% chance within a year they'll be gone,
14:29:34 and they will have lost a couple hundred thousand
14:29:37 dollars doing it.
14:29:40 The agent in the office are probably going nuts right
14:29:43 now.
14:29:43 But they would probably fail, and maybe somebody will
14:29:46 get hurt in the meantime, and they will lose a lot of
14:29:48 money doing it.
14:29:49 Believe me, I know.
14:29:53 So I wouldn't have -- I don't want to lecture, but
14:29:59 your consciouses with be clear as far as this is
14:30:01 concerned if you deny this motion, you will be doing
14:30:04 those guys the biggest favor they ever had.
14:30:07 The other thing is, the landlord, I appreciate,
14:30:11 believe me, because I pay taxes on a building that's
14:30:14 75% vacant.
14:30:16 It's no fun doing that.
14:30:18 A landlord will take a down payment from these folks.
14:30:21 He will pay his taxes.
14:30:22 And it might be the last money he ever sees.
14:30:25 Believe me, I No. I have been through it.
14:30:27 I have been in the district for 23 years owning

14:30:29 property and renting commercial property there.
14:30:32 So don't feel bad that you are going to hurt
14:30:35 somebody's chances of making a fortune, working hard,
14:30:39 employing people down there. There's a 90% chance
14:30:42 they will be gone in a year.
14:30:43 And they will have lost a lot of money doing that.
14:30:46 They don't know that, which is why they are here
14:30:49 today.
14:30:50 But that's a really all I have to say.
14:30:53 So I would urge for all the reasons that not I set
14:30:58 Ford but the other people who spoke against the
14:31:00 petition to deny the petition.
14:31:08 >>> President of Ybor City Chamber of Commerce.
14:31:11 And our address is 8900 east 9th Avenue and I have
14:31:15 been sworn.
14:31:17 This is one of the situations that I do try to be the
14:31:19 voice of reason, and I'm probably not going to make
14:31:23 anybody here but like Barack Obama I believe that we
14:31:25 should take a scalpel to this issue rather than an ax
14:31:31 and many of us on the YCDC board and the civic
14:31:35 association write live agree on the vision for
14:31:37 multi-use historic district with more restaurants,

14:31:40 create tiff retail on ground floor, more professional
14:31:43 offices and artistic on the second.
14:31:45 But we may not all agree on how to make this into a
14:31:49 viable strategy.
14:31:50 And I think it's a mistake to take a blanket approach.
14:31:53 As I understand it the city now looks at each business
14:31:56 contact and the operator before making a decision
14:31:59 which I believe you are doing here.
14:32:00 Give this due diligence or due process.
14:32:03 Look at additional wet zones.
14:32:05 It's not nearly problematic but I think some people
14:32:09 had bad experiences.
14:32:10 Eric spoke to that.
14:32:11 I appreciate the work that the Tampa Police Department
14:32:14 do and code enforcement do to make sure both the
14:32:16 citizens and the businesses obey the law but we need
14:32:24 to be very cautious if we are turning do have down or
14:32:27 turning off investment.
14:32:31 It's the private sector that invests and takes the
14:32:34 risks.
14:32:35 You have to be careful what kind of signals you send
14:32:37 to the private sector and this goes for Tampa in

14:32:40 general as well as Ybor City.
14:32:43 Turning down the Centro Ybor so it's not the chamber
14:32:49 executive.
14:32:50 I understand the specific business concept.
14:32:52 I have heard more about it today.
14:32:53 We were not fully informed about this.
14:32:56 And I think you have much better handle on the fact
14:32:58 that this will be a daytime venue.
14:33:01 This is actually relatively small space.
14:33:04 6500 square feet.
14:33:05 And the club in Ybor is actually quite small.
14:33:09 It's a very interesting corner.
14:33:10 I would like to see it back up.
14:33:12 Actually kitty-corner from sand bank and there is a
14:33:16 subway across the street.
14:33:17 So this is not central.
14:33:21 That block has a lot of clubs.
14:33:25 I just want the process to work.
14:33:28 I want you to seriously look at this, and if you need
14:33:33 more information on this, I'm glad to hear that people
14:33:36 really looked at this company, double oh entertainment
14:33:40 which I was not aware there was a specific client but

14:33:43 I think that's the trick, the specific client, look at
14:33:46 what they are offering, and act accordingly.
14:33:49 I'm not opposed to this.
14:33:51 And I have many friends here who are probably a little
14:33:53 upset with me for saying this.
14:33:55 But I see the only major retail investment coming to
14:33:59 this side of Tampa is IKEA, and I think that's really
14:34:02 critical and that's going to bring us more foot
14:34:04 traffic and those restaurants in place will benefit
14:34:07 from that.
14:34:08 And I think that's the silver lining here.
14:34:10 So I'm hoping this will be a good operation.
14:34:12 And I'm not sure we can automatically say it won't be.
14:34:15 Thank you.
14:34:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
14:34:22 >>> Vince Pardo, Ybor City Development Corporation.
14:34:25 I have been sworn in.
14:34:27 You heard on behalf of the board particularly on
14:34:30 Tuesday, I will not reiterate that H.I want a couple
14:34:34 points of clarification.
14:34:35 This property is listed on our web site, YCDC web
14:34:39 site, we have an available property for it, has been

14:34:42 actively listed there, just double checked with my
14:34:44 staff texting just now.
14:34:46 So we would in fact encourage this property and refer
14:34:50 it on as we do, as people call in for square footage,
14:34:53 including our web site.
14:34:57 The sidewalk on the site on 17th, when this was
14:35:03 club shine, and we had another line, this is a block
14:35:06 of emerging community lines as you go down the rail
14:35:10 from prawna, Fullman, saloon, Churchills, just the
14:35:15 amphitheater.
14:35:16 From then on you have the deli and some other things,
14:35:19 nonintensive use in doing this.
14:35:21 The problem that was experienced in the past is when a
14:35:24 club comes in or restaurant, cafe table, outdoor
14:35:28 seating, or queuing line if it's a club, we look at
14:35:31 the measurements.
14:35:32 Because we must maintain a 4-foot handicapped
14:35:35 clearance to ensure of that.
14:35:36 It's even difficult on 7th Avenue, what I call the
14:35:39 stuff, the palm trees, litter baskets, we have very
14:35:43 narrow space to do this.
14:35:45 Side street is not enough to maintain a queuing line

14:35:49 much less four foot handicapped clearance when you
14:35:52 have telephone poles and trees and other things.
14:35:56 So the front of the space is in fact space that could
14:35:58 be used for queuing.
14:36:02 In the presentation today, as I looked through this,
14:36:05 and what I looked through is exactly your backup,
14:36:10 agenda item, and when it went to the YCDB board on
14:36:14 Tuesday no specific type of use was reverend.
14:36:16 It appeared that property own ware was asking for
14:36:20 special use building, to sole the building, lease the
14:36:23 building, make it more marketable.
14:36:25 And that's understandable.
14:36:26 To make it more marketable.
14:36:28 But there was no use to be look at as far as saying
14:36:30 this is an upscale development, whether it be a
14:36:34 restaurant or whatever it's going to be.
14:36:35 And we do have a lot of restaurants referenced that
14:36:38 are strict 4(COP).
14:36:41 The Columbia is a 4(COP).
14:36:45 So they are not stuck with everything to do the report
14:36:47 as far as the food sales in there.
14:36:51 Finally I want to mention is new restaurants.

14:36:52 Restaurants are not a dying breed.
14:36:56 We have had two open in the last month and we have two
14:36:58 additional ones opening um in the next two months and
14:37:01 definitely before Super Bowl if they get into any
14:37:03 construction delays.
14:37:04 So that's new restaurants in the last quarter of this
14:37:08 year that we are looking at opening up in Ybor City.
14:37:10 Thank you very much.
14:37:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:37:11 Anyone else?
14:37:12 Mr. Diaz, rebuttal, five minutes, and then councilman
14:37:18 Caetano has some questions.
14:37:20 >>> Do you want top address his questions first?
14:37:24 >> No.
14:37:25 Go into your rebuttal.
14:37:35 And he is part of the --
14:37:37 >>> He is the agent.
14:37:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So counsel can come ask questions.
14:37:44 He's part of the agency.
14:37:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Whose question is it, Mr. Caetano's?
14:37:49 >> Mr. Caetano wanted to ask Mr. Jacobs some questions
14:37:53 and since he's the agent he will be allowed to ask

14:37:56 some questions after rebuttal.
14:37:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: But the question, my concern is that
14:37:59 Mr. Diaz has the last word after the questions to the
14:38:02 people so that he can address whatever Mr. Jacobs or
14:38:06 whatever Mr. Caetano says.
14:38:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, all right.
14:38:10 Okay.
14:38:14 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Sir, you are the agent for the
14:38:15 people that own the building?
14:38:17 >>> Jacob: We are the registered agent for the LLC,
14:38:21 also the real estate agent for leasing the property.
14:38:23 >> As the agent you are not going to be running the
14:38:27 establishment.
14:38:29 Who are the people proposed to run the business?
14:38:33 >>> A gentleman named Tutnica and Lavoski.
14:38:40 Mr. Tatunica is behind me, and his sister involved in
14:38:47 the business as well.
14:38:48 >> Has he ever run a business like this before?
14:38:50 >>Yes.
14:38:51 >> Where at?
14:38:53 >> Many of them in Tampa.
14:38:54 >> Where in Tampa?

14:38:55 >> He would be better able to be speak to that than I
14:38:57 am.
14:38:58 >> In Ybor City as well as in north Tampa.
14:39:00 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Let him answer it then.
14:39:04 >> I'm the owner I own double oh entertainment.
14:39:15 We work at a lot of clubs in Ybor, we started up in
14:39:19 Ybor about five years ago.
14:39:21 You know, early, and then what we did was as we grew
14:39:32 with the company we moved on to more lounges, and
14:39:37 Green Iguana.
14:39:39 We are working Friday nights Westshore, promotions
14:39:45 managing there at night, and that's what we are trying
14:39:46 to bring to Ybor.
14:39:48 That's what I have seen for the past five years,
14:39:50 working, that Ybor doesn't really have that, you know,
14:39:54 the upscale loungish restaurant feel to it and that's
14:39:58 exactly what we are trying to do.
14:40:00 I am not trying to open a nightclub that is going to
14:40:02 be, you know, all the specials, or we would go out of
14:40:10 business like a lot of clubs in Ybor.
14:40:13 And I have a lot of experience in this business that
14:40:14 my partner, and that's what we are trying to bring to

14:40:19 Ybor City, you know, daytime and nighttime, also
14:40:22 lounge and restaurant.
14:40:25 >> Do you provide -- you said your company provides
14:40:28 entertainment?
14:40:30 >>> Promotions and marketing and entertain it.
14:40:34 So you are physically not going to be working there
14:40:36 yourself other than the entertainment.
14:40:38 >>> I'm the organizer.
14:40:42 Like I'm the manager.
14:40:44 >> The manager of the club?
14:40:46 >>> Right.
14:40:47 >> In other words of the alcohol and everything that
14:40:48 they are going to sell there, plus you are managing
14:40:50 the entertainment that you bring in?
14:40:52 >>> Well, what would happen is I would manage the
14:40:57 club, and I have also my partner who would help me
14:41:00 with that.
14:41:00 But usually we do with the club, we are a promotion
14:41:03 company so we bring the dee-jays and our promoters,
14:41:06 and we provide commercials and stuff like that.
14:41:08 But this zoning would actually be managing it with our
14:41:12 partner together.

14:41:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Other questions?
14:41:19 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes, I have a couple more
14:41:21 questions.
14:41:22 So your restaurant is not going to be serving food
14:41:25 during the day.
14:41:26 >>> It is.
14:41:27 >> It is going to serve food --
14:41:29 >>> Yes.
14:41:29 We are going to be open at least five days a week from
14:41:32 11 a.m. in the morning till 10 p.m. in the evening,
14:41:35 and restaurant is going to be, you know, we are going
14:41:44 to be open in the day.
14:41:45 >> So you are going to open from eleven in the morning
14:41:48 till ten in the evening.
14:41:48 >>> Right.
14:41:49 >> And then go to the nightclub?
14:41:51 >>> Not specifically really.
14:41:54 We are going to be open till ten for sure and
14:41:58 depending on how the business goes might stay open
14:42:01 till 3:00 and I would say night clubs, the lounge, the
14:42:04 way we are setting it up, we want to set it up, open
14:42:10 on the west restaurant side.

14:42:12 Make it like four nights a week.
14:42:14 >> And these clubs that you have operated before, have
14:42:18 you ever been -- do you want to call it arrested at
14:42:21 one of those places for some sort of violation?
14:42:25 >>> No.
14:42:30 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: All right, that's it.
14:42:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
14:42:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you for coming down to join
14:42:35 us today.
14:42:35 How long is the proposed lease?
14:42:37 >>> Five years with option for another five years.
14:42:40 >> So after five years if things aren't working so
14:42:43 good you might move on?
14:42:44 >>> Yeah, but I hope that it will work.
14:42:48 >> But you are only committed for five years.
14:42:50 >>> Yes.
14:42:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: A quick question.
14:43:00 Officer Miller, usually when you do these evaluations,
14:43:06 I don't want to put words in your mouth too much but
14:43:09 usually when do you these evaluations you look at the
14:43:11 last couple years of history and complaints at the
14:43:12 address.

14:43:14 Those places shut down by Mr. Jacobs in the last three
14:43:18 years so there wouldn't be a lot of calls for this
14:43:20 specific address.
14:43:21 >>> 24 in the last three years.
14:43:23 And nothing related because of the business had been
14:43:25 closed.
14:43:26 >> Right.
14:43:26 So it's somebody falling down but they happened to be
14:43:28 falling down in front of this closed place.
14:43:30 >>> Right, close to it.
14:43:32 >> We have gotten a lot of e-mails.
14:43:38 As a matter of fact, I love this one from Retired
14:43:40 Colonel Padano. I love it. He starts out addressing
14:43:44 this to council and he says: Dudes. I like that,
14:43:54 colonel.
14:43:55 But in all seriousness we received a lot of e-mails
14:43:58 from the community that speak to what else is
14:44:00 happening along this entire block face, in terms --
14:44:04 and they said this is the only block that TPD shuts
14:44:07 down 7th Avenue at 3:00 in the morning because all
14:44:11 these other five or six clubs on that block let out at
14:44:16 three in the morning, and you all feel the need to

14:44:18 close this down.
14:44:18 Are you familiar with all of that?
14:44:19 >>> I'm not real familiar with the closure.
14:44:22 I know there is a closure there.
14:44:24 Based on the specifics as far as why traffic flow,
14:44:28 pedestrians, I'm not really sure exactly why.
14:44:32 >> You haven't talked to that district.
14:44:34 >>> As far as why they do that.
14:44:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Don.
14:44:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
14:44:42 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
14:44:50 That's it?
14:44:53 Okay.
14:44:55 >>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14:45:02 I believe if you look at the YCDC letter, you talk
14:45:06 about they closed down two blocks.
14:45:08 They don't close down one block, they close down two
14:45:11 blocks.
14:45:11 We don't believe we are going to contribute to that
14:45:14 problem.
14:45:14 Don't misunderstand me.
14:45:15 But let's for argument sake say we do. If nothing

14:45:18 else it's already in a contained area, which we don't
14:45:20 expect to at all contribute.
14:45:21 And I don't want to mislead you in that regard.
14:45:24 But that is already occurring there.
14:45:28 There is a gentleman and unfortunately I missed his
14:45:30 name, the gentleman from Gaspar's grotto.
14:45:34 I think you all know that I have been before you on
14:45:36 wet zonings and I think you know that I represent
14:45:39 people in this industry.
14:45:41 Believe me, we have had a long discussion with respect
14:45:45 to the extent of the investment.
14:45:47 You are talking close to $400,000 that's going to have
14:45:51 to be invested in this location.
14:45:52 We are well aware of it.
14:45:55 And Ybor City hasn't exactly been the most successful
14:45:58 place to open a business.
14:46:02 If it was, it wouldn't be shuttered down that they are
14:46:07 complaining it's like a ghost town.
14:46:09 If it was all that highly successful there wouldn't be
14:46:11 all those empty spots there.
14:46:15 Restaurants.
14:46:16 I believe Mr. Miranda may know better than I, having

14:46:19 been in the restaurant business, I don't think there's
14:46:21 a higher failure business than the restaurant
14:46:27 business.
14:46:27 Failure rate when you open that is the highest, I
14:46:30 believe, of any industry.
14:46:34 We are well aware of the investment that we are going
14:46:36 to have to make.
14:46:37 We are well aware of the uphill problem that is facing
14:46:41 us.
14:46:41 We know it.
14:46:42 We see it.
14:46:44 We have come in here.
14:46:46 We tried to offer you what we believe to be a
14:46:49 compromise.
14:46:51 They are complaining about the buildings are closed
14:46:54 during the daytime.
14:46:55 And when people from out of town come in they walk
14:46:58 past it and they are shuttered.
14:47:00 What we are telling you we are going to guarantee and
14:47:02 make it part of the site plan.
14:47:04 We are going to be open no less than five days a week
14:47:06 starting at 11:00 in the morning.

14:47:10 We are going to give you an open storefront.
14:47:13 It not open now.
14:47:21 What do we want to do?
14:47:28 We told you what we want ton do.
14:47:29 We want to be like a blue martini on the western
14:47:33 portion of the structure.
14:47:35 We want to be something like a sports bar with light
14:47:38 food in the eastern portion of the structure.
14:47:42 The eastern portion is the piece that we told you we
14:47:45 would be open.
14:47:50 It's very difficult.
14:47:52 Mr. Pardo talked.
14:47:59 I don't just do night clubs, I also do restaurants.
14:48:04 They are not that common.
14:48:05 He may have told you about four now, and he may have
14:48:09 told you about this property list on the web site, but
14:48:11 he's not told you that he sent the first referral off
14:48:14 of his web site listing.
14:48:16 You didn't hear that.
14:48:17 You heard it's listed.
14:48:18 But have you sent anybody to the land owner to tell
14:48:22 them, so-and-so is interested in leasing your facility

14:48:25 for this given use, whatever it may be?
14:48:28 It hasn't happened.
14:48:29 Hasn't happened.
14:48:30 Given today's economy, Tampa likelihood of it
14:48:32 happening is even far less.
14:48:38 Thereby aren't that many people willing to make a
14:48:41 $400,000 investment to open a newspaper business in
14:48:45 today's economic.
14:48:46 It's just not happening.
14:48:47 So we stand before you.
14:48:48 We told you what we want to do.
14:48:50 We told you the commitment that we are will to make so
14:48:53 that we can be here in the daytime.
14:48:56 And we are telling that you are going to approve
14:48:58 something that is lesser than what is there, and that
14:49:01 is lesser than what is around it, all around it.
14:49:10 There's going to be a total of eight 4(COP-X)s if
14:49:16 you grant ours, and there's 41 C.O.P.s, and every one
14:49:17 of those 4 C.O.P.s -- I'm not going to say every one
14:49:21 of them, but the overwhelming majority of them do a --
14:49:26 could be a package store tomorrow and you couldn't
14:49:28 stop it.

14:49:29 Remember, they are not an X.
14:49:30 They could be a package store tomorrow, 7thAvenue.
14:49:35 And I would venture to tell you quite a few of those
14:49:38 would meet the definition of what city code found to
14:49:41 be a large venue including Brad Cooper's art gallery.
14:49:45 So we respectfully request you approve our
14:49:48 application.
14:49:48 We have no objections to you putting in the
14:49:51 restrictions of the hours that we are telling that you
14:49:53 we are willing to open in the daytime.
14:49:57 And we are willing to undertake the financial exposure
14:50:04 that's associated with it.
14:50:15 >> Move to close.
14:50:20 >> Second.
14:50:20 (Motion carried)
14:50:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council's pleasure?
14:50:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move for
14:50:24 disapproval for the following reasons:
14:50:28 This council has recognized that the petitioner is
14:50:31 asking for waivers.
14:50:32 A number of waivers.
14:50:36 This is separation from residential uses.

14:50:38 This is separation for other establishments selling
14:50:41 alcoholic beverages, and distance separation from
14:50:44 institutional uses.
14:50:47 We have listened to the community, worked with the
14:50:49 community, and make this means a mixture of uses, not
14:50:56 a bourbon street down 7th Avenue.
14:50:58 Petitioner before success asking for these waivers,
14:51:01 and I don't think it's appropriate given the plans
14:51:03 that we have adopted for Ybor City to support this.
14:51:07 So I move for disapproval.
14:51:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second, with a little more
14:51:11 elaboration.
14:51:16 Counsel, our attorney likes us to elaborate especially
14:51:19 with some references to statutes and codes so if you
14:51:22 will indulge me for a minute.
14:51:24 Specifically, I support your motion, Mrs. Saul-Sena,
14:51:26 and I support it also on the basis that the petition
14:51:31 is not consistent with section 27-269 of our city
14:51:34 code, general standards.
14:51:37 Specifically I'll point to subparagraph A-1, general
14:51:42 public, health, safety, welfare, subparagraph A-3,
14:51:46 that the use is incompatible with contiguous and

14:51:49 surrounding property, and especially subparagraph A-5
14:51:56 that says the use will not establish a precedent of or
14:51:59 encourage more intensive compatible uses in the
14:52:02 surrounding area.
14:52:03 I think in the last several years, council, this
14:52:06 council, has decided that we need to reduce the number
14:52:11 of bars and similar night clubs in Ybor and head back
14:52:17 toward our greater mix of uses.
14:52:20 And the last provision in 27-269 says that the use is
14:52:24 in conformity with the comprehensive plan and
14:52:27 specifically I would say that it not.
14:52:29 And I'll point to provisions policy A-7.1 which says
14:52:33 that redevelopment opportunities in our urban villages
14:52:36 such as Ybor shall be maximized by encouraging an
14:52:40 appropriate mix of land uses where possible, and then
14:52:48 policy objective B-2 in the future land use section
14:52:53 says that the redevelopment revitalization of
14:52:57 underutilized residential areas shall be accomplished
14:52:59 in part through the implementation of the techniques
14:53:03 described below and specifically policy B-2-2 that
14:53:06 says we should eliminate incompatible land uses or
14:53:10 blighting influences from potentially stable viable

14:53:13 residential neighborhoods.
14:53:14 This is becoming more and more of a residential
14:53:16 neighborhood which I think is the direction we want to
14:53:19 the head.
14:53:20 Finally, without elaborating too much, I'll reference
14:53:22 just for the record a policy comprehensive plan policy
14:53:26 D-2-13 and B-2-15 that also speak to the protection of
14:53:36 neighborhoods in reducing the deleterious effects that
14:53:41 alcoholic beverages -- B-2-113 that the city
14:53:47 recognizes that beverage licenses may have deleterious
14:53:52 effects alcoholic beverages.
14:53:55 We received 22 e-mails from people who work in this
14:53:59 neighborhood, own property in this neighborhood, they
14:54:01 are tired of the bar scene, they want to reverse the
14:54:03 direction of Ybor City, and I think that we need to
14:54:06 respect that.
14:54:08 This project is within a thousand feet of 50 other
14:54:11 establishments, they are looking for a waiver from
14:54:14 residential as well as from churches, or other
14:54:17 institutional uses, and I think that I've said enough.
14:54:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:54:23 Motion by councilman Saul-Sena.

14:54:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I want to say one other thing,
14:54:27 because in all due respect to Mr. Diaz and especially
14:54:30 Mr. Jacobs, these are good guys, this is no reflection
14:54:33 on their hard work.
14:54:34 We are sorry that you can't find anything else.
14:54:37 But a nightclub to go in there.
14:54:39 But that can't be the deciding factor for our vote.
14:54:43 And we apologize for that on a personal level.
14:54:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion by Councilwoman Saul-Sena
14:54:50 to deny the petition, second by councilman Dingfelder.
14:54:53 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:54:56 Opposes?
14:55:01 Okay.
14:55:02 Item 98.
14:55:32 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:55:38 Case V 08-125, 5325 Avion park drive, there was a
14:55:49 recent application in this same area for alcohol as
14:55:51 well.
14:55:52 This particular request is for a 2(COP), beer and wine
14:55:55 only, consumption on premises with package sales in
14:55:59 association with a hotel use.
14:56:02 You will note that there are a few uses, both

14:56:06 alcoholic beverage establishments and institutional
14:56:09 within a thousand feet noted on page 2.
14:56:11 There are no residential uses within a thousand feet.
14:56:14 You will note on page 4 and 5 again the general
14:56:17 standards for this particular request.
14:56:22 The location is at the southwest corner of Spruce and
14:56:29 OVARY lane.
14:56:32 This is the particular site itself.
14:56:36 That's being constructed.
14:56:38 The sign as it was posted.
14:56:42 And it is the Hilton garden inn.
14:56:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer Miller.
14:56:52 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
14:56:55 department.
14:56:55 I have been sworn.
14:56:56 City of Tampa police has in objections to this wet
14:56:59 zoning.
14:57:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here that wants ton speak in
14:57:02 objection to this petition?
14:57:03 Anyone here opposing this petition?
14:57:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
14:57:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is petitioner here?

14:57:11 Do you have anything you want to say?
14:57:13 Thank you.
14:57:13 All right.
14:57:14 Motion to close.
14:57:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
14:57:17 (Motion carried).
14:57:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do we have the ordinance?
14:57:39 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance approving a special
14:57:40 use permit S-2 making lawful the sale of beverages
14:57:44 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not
14:57:48 more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of
14:57:52 alcohol content beer and wine 2(COP) for consumption
14:57:56 on premises and in sealed containers for consumption
14:58:00 off premises at or from the certain lot, plot or tract
14:58:05 of land located at 5325 Avion park drive, Tampa,
14:58:11 Florida as more particularly described in section 2
14:58:14 hereof approving waivers as set forth herein, waiving
14:58:17 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
14:58:20 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
14:58:24 conflict, providing an effective date.
14:58:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
14:58:29 Miranda.

14:58:30 Yes, sir.
14:58:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I wanted to make sure you heard me.
14:58:35 Just for the record, Cathy, this says there's no
14:58:39 residential use within 1,000 square feet.
14:58:42 None of those Laurel street uses over there are that
14:58:45 close?
14:58:46 Or is that farther than a thousand?
14:58:49 We are not doing the whole yellow block, are we?
14:58:53 >>CATHERINE COYLE: This is actually the folio number.
14:58:55 This is not the footprint of the hotel.
14:58:58 The parcel is actually, I guess, proposed to be split.
14:59:01 But these actually are not residential uses.
14:59:03 These are very large -- I think one of them is
14:59:05 institutional.
14:59:06 >> Some of those scattered on Laurel are residential,
14:59:12 aren't they?
14:59:12 But maybe that's not a thousand feet.
14:59:14 >>> It's a thousand linear feet.
14:59:16 And this is a little deceiving because the scale is
14:59:18 very small.
14:59:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
14:59:21 >>CATHERINE COYLE: It's actually certified by the

14:59:25 surveyor.
14:59:27 They actually do it.
14:59:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
14:59:30 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:59:33 Opposes?
14:59:34 All right.
14:59:35 99.
14:59:36 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:59:38 V 08-126.
14:59:40 Just for your reference it is the same parcel that I
14:59:43 was just speaking of.
14:59:44 This is an adjacent hotel.
14:59:50 The Marriott.
14:59:51 They are too requesting a 2(COP) beer and wine only,
14:59:56 consumption on and off premises in association with a
14:59:59 hotel use.
15:00:01 The property is zoned PD as noted before and the
15:00:03 special use criteria are located on page 4 and 5 for
15:00:08 your review.
15:00:10 As well two additional waivers for distance separation
15:00:12 for institutional uses, and alcoholic beverage
15:00:16 establishments.

15:00:17 Thank you.
15:00:21 >>> Officer Don Miller.
15:00:24 City of Tampa police has no objections.
15:00:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here have an objection or want
15:00:28 to speak in opposition to this petition?
15:00:30 Anyone?
15:00:30 Petitioner?
15:00:32 Petitioner?
15:00:33 Do you have anything you want to add?
15:00:35 Anything you want to say?
15:00:36 >> Thank you.
15:00:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move to close?
15:00:39 Smart man.
15:00:39 >> So moved.
15:00:41 >> Second.
15:00:41 (Motion carried).
15:00:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I guess I saw a solar collector
15:00:51 cell, I'm not sure.
15:00:52 >>> Move an ordinance approving a special use permit
15:00:54 S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales large venue and
15:00:57 making lawful the sale of beverage containing alcohol
15:01:00 of more than 1% by weight and not more than 14% by

15:01:04 weight and wines regardless of alcoholic content beer
15:01:06 and wine 2(COP) for consumption on premises and in
15:01:10 sealed containers for consumption off premises at or
15:01:13 from that certain lot, plot or tract of land located
15:01:15 at 5302 Avion park drive, Tampa, Florida as more
15:01:20 particularly described in section 2 hereof approving
15:01:22 waivers set forth herein, waiving certain restrictions
15:01:26 as to distance based upon certain findings, providing
15:01:28 for repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
15:01:31 effective date.
15:01:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded by
15:01:35 councilman Miranda.
15:01:36 (Motion carried)
15:01:47 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Thank you.
15:01:49 Did you call this case?
15:01:50 >> I guess I was waiting.
15:01:52 >>THE CLERK: Second reading and adoption will be held
15:01:54 on December 4th, 2008, at 9:30.
15:01:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, thank you.
15:01:59 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development for case V 08-127
15:02:03 located at 4318 to 4332 west El Prado Boulevard.
15:02:11 You will note that staff did find this inconsistent

15:02:14 with the standards in the code.
15:02:16 They are requesting a 4(COP), that is beer, wine and
15:02:19 liquor, consumption on premises and package sales.
15:02:23 There are five waivers listed, three of which are the
15:02:25 distance separations from the specified uses.
15:02:28 There is also reduction in parking requested from 51
15:02:32 required spaces to 30 to the existing conditions and
15:02:36 to allow maneuvering within the public right-of-way of
15:02:39 all throw adjacent streets, Manhattan Avenue, El Prado
15:02:42 and Coolidge.
15:02:43 It does appear that had is in conjunction with a
15:02:46 specialty store, wine, bar and gift packaging business
15:02:49 use.
15:02:50 According to the petitioner.
15:02:51 The structure does contain 2,053 square feet.
15:02:57 There are some changes that would be needed to be made
15:03:01 as far as the waivers and how they should be corrected
15:03:03 that can be made between first and second reading if
15:03:06 council chooses to approve the use noted on page 2.
15:03:09 However, that includes the change in the angle of the
15:03:15 dumpster and the dimensions on the dumpster and it's
15:03:18 located facing south Coolidge, as well as some

15:03:20 additional language needed to correct some of the
15:03:23 transportation notes on the plan.
15:03:25 However, please note that there was the objection from
15:03:27 transportation staff as it relate to the parking.
15:03:34 You will note that the site as it's developed today is
15:03:39 multi-tenant building, and the parking currently
15:03:42 actually maneuvers within the right-of-way.
15:03:45 The parking spaces are wholly within the property but
15:03:47 do back out into Manhattan, El Prado and Coolidge.
15:03:51 This is to me the kind of case that symbolizes one of
15:03:57 the reasons why council changed this from process from
15:04:00 a wet zoning to a special use, to actually begin to
15:04:03 evaluate the site and how it functions.
15:04:04 This particular site does function as it is today,
15:04:08 with the intent of use of office retail and maybe
15:04:14 personal services which we treat as retail.
15:04:17 The issue of this alcohol license going in and the
15:04:19 changing use actually is a question of intensity and
15:04:22 whether or not this type of use could be supported in
15:04:25 this facility.
15:04:26 And the objection is based on the fact that they are
15:04:29 short, they are deficient by about 39% of their

15:04:32 parking that would be required for this new use, as
15:04:35 well as the fact that it is an older establishment,
15:04:39 but the parking does maneuver within the right-of-way.
15:04:42 Especially on two main streets.
15:04:43 So there could be some conflict as well with
15:04:47 visibility at the corners with intensification of use,
15:04:49 if there are more people coming to the site.
15:04:51 So there is that standing objection.
15:04:53 There are technical objections based on the notes that
15:04:55 need to be placed on the site plan, if you find it
15:04:59 approvable.
15:04:59 But we still are holding our objection based on
15:05:06 intensification and lack of parking.
15:05:07 I'll show you the pictures of the site and the
15:05:09 location is at the southeast corner of Manhattan and
15:05:12 El Prado.
15:05:15 This is the establishment.
15:05:17 Transportation is here if you have any additional
15:05:19 questions as well.
15:05:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can I ask a question?
15:05:27 >> We have a line.
15:05:27 >>> This is looking north across El Prado and west.

15:05:33 You can see the vehicles back out into basically where
15:05:35 the intersection is today.
15:05:39 >> This is across from the deli, right?
15:05:43 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yeah.
15:05:45 I arrive live in central Tampa.
15:05:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer.
15:05:56 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
15:05:58 department.
15:05:59 City of Tampa police department has no objections.
15:06:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda?
15:06:07 Okay, then councilman John Dingfelder, Councilwoman
15:06:11 Saul-Sena, councilman Mulhern.
15:06:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think I would like to hear a
15:06:19 brief presentation about what this is, 2400 square
15:06:24 feet, and any proposed hours of operation.
15:06:29 Come on down.
15:06:29 Any proposed hours of operation.
15:06:34 Whole bit in about three minutes.
15:06:36 >>> And I don't blame you.
15:06:37 I understand that.
15:06:38 My name is Lovie Hudson and I am a registered agent
15:06:41 for the property owner, Mr. Scott Whitmore and also

15:06:45 the registered agent for my mother Marie Rochet the
15:06:51 licensed holder and wish sworn in.
15:06:55 What we are proposing to do is not open a night club
15:06:58 or a bar.
15:06:59 It is definitely a specialty gift shop.
15:07:03 It's a very unique idea.
15:07:04 It is an alternative gift to sending maybe flowers or
15:07:07 a fruit basket.
15:07:09 A very unique idea.
15:07:10 And in South Tampa, you know, the residents there, we
15:07:17 don't want to thereby if they don't want -- they are
15:07:20 probably the ones most delighted with what we are
15:07:22 going to be doing there.
15:07:24 One of our managers will be one of the owners,
15:07:28 Christina -- I can never say the last name, I
15:07:33 apologize.
15:07:33 They are very artistic and very good at what they do.
15:07:36 And Rene costa, who put the Florida Aquarium on the
15:07:44 map --
15:07:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me cut to the chase.
15:07:57 What are the hours that you expect to be operating for
15:07:59 the initial business plan?

15:08:02 >>> Okay.
15:08:02 We would like to be open from eleven until 2 a.m. and
15:08:06 there are a couple of reasons for that.
15:08:09 >> 2 a.m.?
15:08:10 >>> Yes.
15:08:11 What we are doing in this 2500 square foot location is
15:08:14 you are going to have the gift shop, which includes
15:08:16 the full liquor and line shop, also novelty items like
15:08:20 designer coffee cups, designer wine glasses,
15:08:23 designer -- we have artist that are going to be
15:08:28 supplying these things to us.
15:08:29 All the items that we sell in that store will be
15:08:32 available in our gift boxes.
15:08:33 And the gift boxes are going to be wooden chests.
15:08:36 And the name is the liquor chest.
15:08:38 We are going to go off the team of the Gasparilla
15:08:42 pirate chest, buck a near idea, and that box will come
15:08:45 with any number of things that you should chose to put
15:08:48 in it.
15:08:48 We are going to specialize in liquor cakes like
15:08:54 amaretto cakes.
15:08:56 All of these items will be offered in the gift basket.

15:08:58 There will be a viewing window where our customers can
15:09:01 come in and watch the gift be made or just purchase
15:09:03 one that we have already designed.
15:09:05 We are going to have theme boxes.
15:09:07 We are going to have delivery.
15:09:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would say 2 a.m. is a little
15:09:14 beyond the normal shopping time.
15:09:16 Get to that.
15:09:17 >>> About 2300 square feet inside we are requesting be
15:09:21 wet zoned.
15:09:22 Half of that space will be for the store, and the
15:09:24 other half will be for the tasting bar so throws going
15:09:28 to be a wine bar and cake tasting bar, also a patio
15:09:33 outside, approximately 750 square feet.
15:09:36 We are going to be selling cigars, domestic, Ybor City
15:09:43 cigars, as well as imported cigars, so there will be a
15:09:46 cigar patio to sip your liqueurs, wine, whatever,
15:09:52 while you're having your cigars, so it's a
15:09:52 multi-faceted business.
15:09:55 We are going to have also a catering division.
15:09:57 We are going to have on-site couples as well as
15:10:04 packaging off-site, in sealed containers as well.

15:10:08 We are going to be featuring -- we have spoken and met
15:10:11 with all the neighboring businesses there.
15:10:15 The coffee shop is next door, been there for ten
15:10:18 years, do a great little business.
15:10:22 They are very excited about us coming.
15:10:24 One of the things worry going to have is a tasting
15:10:26 bar, our specialty coffee drinks, and we are going to
15:10:29 feature -- java coffee, natives of the area so there
15:10:41 won't be any cooking going on there.
15:10:43 Just some serving of small menu items.
15:10:46 But we intend to have charity events.
15:10:48 We intend to have art exhibits.
15:10:51 We intend to have wine tasting.
15:10:55 During the daytime, when the businesses are open,
15:10:59 probably the biggest concern for parking.
15:11:01 The property owner has agreed to allow us to redesign
15:11:06 his parking area.
15:11:08 We have been required to put in a 405-foot linear
15:11:12 sidewalk, also required to put in a secondhand I cap
15:11:15 spot, move the ramp which we are prepared to do, we
15:11:17 are also being requested to move the dumpster from the
15:11:19 site that it's at, which is too close to the property

15:11:23 line, far enough from the setback because I think it
15:11:27 is right on the property line, so we have to actually
15:11:29 move it.
15:11:30 We will be losing two spots for the dumpster, fenced
15:11:34 in enclosure.
15:11:34 We are going to be placing it in such a way that there
15:11:38 is maneuverability.
15:11:39 The fact that there are 35 spots there, we are going
15:11:42 to be losing three spots in order to accommodate those
15:11:44 compliance guidelines with the dumpster and the
15:11:46 handicapped.
15:11:47 So we have organized with the neighboring businesses
15:11:51 when we have special events, they will be only in the
15:11:55 evenings, there will be evening events that may start
15:11:57 5:00 or 6:00 in the evening.
15:11:59 If we have a tasting or charity event, we have already
15:12:04 obtained permission from like the Chili's to use their
15:12:10 parking, they close at 5:00 or 6:00 in the evening and
15:12:13 we would have valet service so we would not impose on
15:12:16 than the streets of the neighboring places that people
15:12:20 do park now.
15:12:21 But the reason why we are asking for those hours is

15:12:26 obviously with the economy as it is today, we want to
15:12:29 be able to utilize the 4(COP) license so that we can
15:12:37 ensure our success.
15:12:39 My mother is 71 years old and I'm not young either but
15:12:42 it's not our intention to have -- I didn't give my age
15:12:54 away.
15:12:54 You gave hers away.
15:12:58 [ Laughter ]
15:13:04 You know, we are local residents, have been all of our
15:13:08 lives.
15:13:09 And this is a business that my mother and I have
15:13:13 jumped up along with our very artistic partners, and I
15:13:16 believe that we may become an iconic gift, that may be
15:13:22 very welcome in the corporate and residential higher
15:13:26 end residential areas of Tampa.
15:13:29 We are not going to be selling beer really.
15:13:33 We won't be selling anything like -- you won't be able
15:13:35 to come to our package store and buy a bottle of
15:13:39 "early times."
15:13:40 We are going to have high end -- not that there's
15:13:42 anything wrong with that.
15:13:43 But we are going to have high end LIQUORS, wine and

15:13:48 liquor that will be ideal for people that have
15:13:51 specialty gifts in mind.
15:13:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
15:13:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think that your idea is really
15:13:59 imaginative.
15:14:00 My concern is the fact that you back up to a
15:14:03 residential area and you are asking for pretty late
15:14:06 night hours.
15:14:06 That's my concern.
15:14:09 I would like you to think about a more reasonable time
15:14:13 to close given your proximity to the residential
15:14:16 neighborhood.
15:14:18 >>> May I respond to that?
15:14:21 One of the things that made us decide to keep the
15:14:23 package side open to such a late hour, you know, we
15:14:28 did the demographics, and the only two four lane roads
15:14:36 intersect in that area, it's a really good spot to be.
15:14:43 They have been there since the 50s.
15:14:45 Eights great location.
15:14:46 It is a commercial building.
15:14:47 And I know that there are doctors' offices and other
15:14:52 places nearby that have problems with the neighborhood

15:14:57 as far as parking is concerned.
15:14:59 I have gone and spoken to the neighbors.
15:15:00 I have provided information to them.
15:15:04 I have addressed this problem by requesting that the
15:15:07 property owners designate two spots directly in front
15:15:10 of our units for drop-off and pickoff.
15:15:15 Our daytime business is going to be retail, it's going
15:15:17 to be people coming in to get the gifts, they get out.
15:15:20 I don't suspect a wine bar, tasting bar would be very
15:15:24 active during the day.
15:15:25 However, that coffee shop, tough coffee shop and the
15:15:29 patio that we have there, it's a very pleasant place
15:15:32 to stay, it's paved, there are pavers, it's just a
15:15:35 beautiful location, in South Tampa.
15:15:38 So we may have some patrons that might want to sit out
15:15:41 there.
15:15:42 We intend to make it very flap relaxing environment
15:15:48 and have a nice ambience.
15:15:51 I guess what I am trying to say during the day we will
15:15:53 be principle merely retail and we need to make sure
15:15:56 that we can stay afloat, and have a successful viable
15:16:00 business there, and when we did our demographics we

15:16:03 also found not only the intersection but other
15:16:08 companies have been very successful for decade there
15:16:10 but the stores in that area, not very far, there's a
15:16:16 couple that are nearby, they close at either ten or at
15:16:21 midnight so he would believe that that extra hour to
15:16:24 two hours in a residential proximity that we are in,
15:16:28 people that are having dinner parties or whatever, if
15:16:31 they feel they need another bottle of wine or they ran
15:16:34 out of a liquor, it's a convenient place for them to
15:16:38 pay a little bit extra to not go a long way from home
15:16:43 to get what they need late at night when they are
15:16:45 having an event of their own and we think maybe that
15:16:48 extra hour or two might actually give us a major
15:16:51 advantage.
15:16:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
15:16:55 >>MARY MULHERN: You answered most of my questions.
15:16:57 I was trying to figure out what was happening with
15:17:00 java.
15:17:01 Are you sharing, proposing to share?
15:17:04 Because they use that patio area.
15:17:06 >>> But they close at three in the arch.
15:17:08 Yeah.

15:17:09 And like I said, I don't suspect we'll be crowding
15:17:14 them in any way.
15:17:15 They are very excited about us possibly coming there,
15:17:18 and actually propose that we create an opening between
15:17:22 their store and our store so we can exchange coffee.
15:17:29 >>MARY MULHERN: I agree with councilman Dingfelder,
15:17:33 because this is my neighborhood kind of, and I
15:17:35 frequent javas.
15:17:38 I'm glad you reminded me of.
15:17:40 That and it sounds like a great business opportunity,
15:17:41 but it's 2 a.m. doesn't seem -- 2 a.m. sounds like
15:17:47 liquor, not liquer.
15:17:50 And I think it was good choice to call it the liquer
15:17:55 box, not the liquor box.
15:17:57 >> Actually changed the name.
15:17:58 >> That's even better.
15:18:01 But at 2 a.m. does seem sort of out of character
15:18:05 especially if you are talking more about even wine
15:18:11 tasting.
15:18:11 I don't think of doing that at two in the morning.
15:18:15 >>> Well, like I Seay said, it's located in-- I live
15:18:22 about there two minutes myself, and if I were to come

15:18:25 from a restaurant or evening out and want to stop and
15:18:27 have an after-dinner liquer or one of our cakes or
15:18:33 whatever, I would like our local people to have the
15:18:36 opportunity to not fill rushed to get there, to get
15:18:39 that.
15:18:40 Once they get there, stores are closing and you need
15:18:43 to go.
15:18:45 Our desire is to develop a very relaxing, very high
15:18:49 end, very -- it's going to be a Tuscany style
15:18:54 authentic wine tasting bar with specialty LIQUORES and
15:19:02 specialty drinks and of course we don't want to limit
15:19:04 our hours in case worry having an event where, you
15:19:08 know, it might not start till 8:00 at night.
15:19:11 We certainly wouldn't want to have a limit of two
15:19:13 hours.
15:19:17 If we are making money and people having a good time,
15:19:19 and our local businesses and residents are there, and
15:19:23 in support of it, then of course we would want to be
15:19:26 able to have the option.
15:19:28 That doesn't mean that we would always want to be open
15:19:31 that late.
15:19:31 In fact, it's clearly written in the business plan

15:19:34 that we reserve the right oh to close at 10 p.m. if
15:19:39 the night is slow and throws nothing happening.
15:19:41 But we just want to have the ability in case there's
15:19:43 an event to stay open at that time.
15:19:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council Miranda, councilman
15:19:50 Dingfelder.
15:19:51 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Are you wet zoning the porch
15:19:53 outside?
15:19:54 >> Geez.
15:19:55 And it is enclosed by a 4-foot --
15:20:02 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Evidently where the coffee shop
15:20:04 is?
15:20:04 >>> Yes.
15:20:05 And we do share that porch, until they close at 3:00.
15:20:12 We not only have java's coffee but we have several --
15:20:16 Okay.
15:20:18 Questions.
15:20:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The only concerns I have is that
15:20:22 today's neighbors may not be tomorrow's residents.
15:20:25 They can move out and people move in and have a
15:20:29 different outlook on things.
15:20:31 And once you zone not only this property but any

15:20:34 property, you're zoning the land to be COP, for
15:20:39 eternity, as long as they close down and sell one
15:20:41 drink a month.
15:20:42 So what I'm saying is, 2:00 in the morning along with
15:20:46 the things I said I had some reservations about the
15:20:49 whole plan, and certainly no matter what kind of
15:20:52 business plan you have, you are entitled to close
15:20:54 anytime you want, as long as you don't exceed state
15:20:57 law.
15:20:59 So you can close your business at any time you want.
15:21:03 That's not a concession.
15:21:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
15:21:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Hudson, Mr. Miranda is 100%
15:21:12 correct and I'm not sure if you and your family are
15:21:15 aware of it.
15:21:16 Your program sounds great and you guys look like nice
15:21:19 honorable people and we believe you.
15:21:21 >>> Thank you.
15:21:21 >> The problem is as Mr. Miranda indicated you are a
15:21:24 tenant.
15:21:24 Okay.
15:21:25 If it doesn't work out for you when your lease runs

15:21:27 out, you know, then the property stays wet zoned for
15:21:31 whatever the next tenant might want to do to it.
15:21:34 And in this particular residential neighborhood, a
15:21:39 2 a.m. wet zoning across the board 4(COP) has the
15:21:43 potential to be a whole lot of other things that you
15:21:46 are not describing.
15:21:47 So we are not -- let me just finish -- I'm not
15:21:51 impugning what you are saying at all.
15:21:53 I believe you completely. But this can't be just the
15:21:56 only issue that we have to make our decision on.
15:21:58 So with that said, and based upon what you have just
15:22:01 described, I'm going to toss something out to you as a
15:22:06 suggestion.
15:22:06 All right.
15:22:07 Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, 10 o'clock p.m.
15:22:09 Those are sort of classic weeknights, you know,
15:22:14 children, school children, want to get some sleep,
15:22:17 et cetera.
15:22:18 Sunday night, Tuesday, Wednesday, 10 o'clock p.m.
15:22:21 Thursday, 11 o'clock p.m.
15:22:22 Friday, Saturday, midnight.
15:22:24 Okay?

15:22:25 I could support -- and I'm one out of seven, and you
15:22:28 don't have to accept these hours.
15:22:30 But I know -- and this is my district.
15:22:32 I could support this hand in hand with your business
15:22:39 plan.
15:22:40 10 p.m., Sunday, Monday, Tuesday Wednesday.
15:22:43 Thursday 11.
15:22:44 Friday, Saturday midnight.
15:22:49 In our process we toss that out to you.
15:22:51 And if it's okay with council, I'll toss that back to
15:22:53 you.
15:22:54 You can discuss it with your mom.
15:22:55 And with your partner.
15:22:56 See what you think of that.
15:22:58 You can accept it or reject it.
15:23:00 Come back and let us know.
15:23:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to take public testimony.
15:23:03 We haven't done that.
15:23:04 So anyone who wishes to address council?
15:23:07 Anyone who wishes to address council on this plan?
15:23:16 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:23:18 I forgot.

15:23:19 These are actually from the public.
15:23:20 I forgot to submit these letters to the record.
15:23:22 They are from opposition.
15:23:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
15:23:27 Two letters in opposition.
15:23:28 >>> I believe one of them you hadn't received but I'm
15:23:31 not sure.
15:23:32 It's Michelle Mosher and Amy Watts and Donald Noraz.
15:23:40 >> Come forward, please.
15:23:41 State your name for the record.
15:23:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you want me to put those into the
15:23:44 record, Ms. Coyle?
15:23:45 >> Yes.
15:23:45 >>> I'm sorry, I have not been sworn in.
15:23:47 I didn't know I was going to need to speak.
15:23:50 My name is Julie Petrillo.
15:23:52 I am a neighbor.
15:23:56 (Oath administered by Clerk)
15:24:06 My opposition is this is my neighborhood.
15:24:08 It's primarily residential neighborhood.
15:24:10 And --
15:24:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What street are you on?

15:24:15 >> I'm on El Prado next to the corner.
15:24:17 Not on the corner.
15:24:18 Because there is a Chinese restaurant there but I'm
15:24:21 right next to that.
15:24:22 And all of these stores that are in that corner close
15:24:27 early.
15:24:27 And that's fine.
15:24:29 You know, it's wonderful for me.
15:24:32 It bad enough when the people are coming to the
15:24:36 Chinese restaurant.
15:24:39 And the odor and everything that I get from there.
15:24:43 And I just feel with a family-type neighborhood, which
15:24:48 this is, where there are children, but a liquor store
15:24:51 is not appropriate.
15:24:55 That's really all I have to say.
15:24:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, thank you.
15:25:02 Petitioner?
15:25:03 Anyone else from the public?
15:25:05 Okay, petitioner.
15:25:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What happened to those letters?
15:25:12 >> The clerk has it.
15:25:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?

15:25:16 >>> I would have to ask City Council to remember that
15:25:32 10:00 is a very early hour and if we have an event if
15:25:35 they would at least consider midnight.
15:25:40 For seven nights a week.
15:25:41 So if we are having an event we would be able to do
15:25:43 that.
15:25:50 We also have about $300,000 to make this happen.
15:25:54 And like I said it's a very high end type environment.
15:25:59 And I don't anticipate there being any disturbance
15:26:04 from the patrons that would be there, even if they
15:26:06 were there till, say, midnight or whenever we would
15:26:12 close it.
15:26:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So you would like to have midnight
15:26:18 every night?
15:26:19 >>> It would be very helpful if we are having an
15:26:21 event.
15:26:21 It's just too early to be able to sponsor an event.
15:26:26 We probably wouldn't be successful I'm afraid is what
15:26:28 I'm thinking.
15:26:32 I understand why you would be concerned with the
15:26:34 2 a.m. hour and I can see that.
15:26:36 And the reason I asked for it is in case we have a

15:26:38 late night event we would be able to do it.
15:26:40 But honestly I can foresee us closing probably between
15:26:44 11 and 12 every night.
15:26:46 But if we were to have an event we certainly would be
15:26:48 looking for the ability to do that.
15:26:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The other issue that appears to
15:26:57 come up not only from this nice lady on El Prado but
15:27:01 also these two letters we just received on Coolidge
15:27:03 and Kensington is they are concerned about parking.
15:27:06 Apparently there's some overflow parking coming out of
15:27:09 some of these businesses.
15:27:10 >>> During the day, that's correct.
15:27:19 Than the dentists allow their employees to park in the
15:27:23 parking locality so they are forced to park their
15:27:25 employers on the street on Coolidge.
15:27:27 I don't remember the name of the road.
15:27:32 So those concerns are very valid, and I agree.
15:27:36 I would have a problem with that if I were her.
15:27:39 When I told her we would have two reserved spots by
15:27:43 the property owner, and put no parking signs in front
15:27:50 of her house so they couldn't make their employers
15:27:55 park in front of her house.

15:27:56 I don't agree with her at all.
15:27:57 When we would be having more than just a retail number
15:28:03 of persons in the store, the other businesses are
15:28:06 closed, those parking spots are completely open and I
15:28:09 don't anticipate needing more than 30 spots.
15:28:11 We don't anticipate having 30 people.
15:28:14 It would be great if we did but I just can't imagine
15:28:16 that, unless we were everything a special event.
15:28:19 And like I said, on those notes, we have already
15:28:22 arranged to do valet service.
15:28:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, what's your pleasure?
15:28:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
15:28:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
15:28:34 >> Motion to close.
15:28:38 All fa in favor?
15:28:39 All opposed?
15:28:39 Thank you, ma'am.
15:28:40 >>> Thank you very much.
15:28:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder?
15:28:45 Your district.
15:28:46 What do you want to do?
15:28:47 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll make a motion to approve it with

15:28:57 the restricted hours of midnight.
15:29:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Of what?
15:29:10 >>GWEN MILLER: 12:00.
15:29:11 >>
15:29:12 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
15:29:14 With that change I would have to bring that back.
15:29:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me ask a question, midnight during
15:29:21 the week.
15:29:24 Can we do a one-year?
15:29:26 Temporary, or whatever we do?
15:29:32 See if there are problems?
15:29:34 >>JULIA COLE: Traditionally you need to get the
15:29:36 consent of the applicant.
15:29:38 But let me just double check with Cathy.
15:29:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I just think 12:00 still in a
15:29:50 residential area, you know, during the week is late.
15:29:55 But I will go with it temporarily.
15:29:57 That way you can come back and revisit it.
15:30:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just want the petitioner to be
15:30:06 fully aware of what a conditional use.
15:30:09 If she is talking about a $300,000 investment, she's
15:30:12 talking about a $300,000 investment in this thing.

15:30:14 And I just wanted to make due process, make it
15:30:18 abundantly clear what a conditional means.
15:30:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I only have one vote so I'm just tell
15:30:28 you where I am.
15:30:29 That's all.
15:30:29 I have one vote.
15:30:34 >>MARY MULHERN: Need to move to reopen the public
15:30:36 hearing.
15:30:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
15:30:38 (Motion carried).
15:30:41 >>JULIA COLE: To answer the first question, you have
15:30:44 the right in a special use permit to impose reasonable
15:30:49 conditions.
15:30:49 I was only hesitating because it used to be something
15:30:53 you had to have an agreement.
15:30:54 So it is something that can be added between first and
15:30:57 second reading and I think it appropriate for the
15:30:59 purposes of the record to hear from the applicant to
15:31:01 determine whether or not they would object to that.
15:31:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, yes.
15:31:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You are talking about the
15:31:06 conditional or talking about the hours?

15:31:08 >> All of the above.
15:31:09 >>MARY MULHERN: The hours with the one year
15:31:12 conditional.
15:31:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Explain what a conditional means.
15:31:18 >>> If I'm not mistaken it means if there are no
15:31:21 problems with the resident and with the establishment
15:31:23 as it operates, then we get a permanent.
15:31:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
15:31:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, not exactly.
15:31:31 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:31:32 Conditional that you guys were used to under the old
15:31:34 code is different.
15:31:35 Under the special use process, you would be granting a
15:31:37 one-year permit and then it would expire.
15:31:40 They would have to then repeat and ask for a permanent
15:31:43 status.
15:31:43 So it's a new application.
15:31:44 And at that point basically TPD would be coming
15:31:47 forward saying, well, there are not any issues, I
15:31:50 would be reporting back if there are any code
15:31:52 enforcement actions but it's a knew petition.
15:31:54 >> So you have to reply all over again and pay the

15:31:57 fees?
15:31:57 >> Right.
15:31:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Then county be permanent if we grant
15:32:00 it.
15:32:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: By the same token, I think
15:32:03 councilman's Dingfelder point is the petitioner should
15:32:07 understand if there's a large monetary investment and
15:32:08 the permit expires after one year this council is
15:32:11 under no obligation to extend that permit.
15:32:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So all of a sudden if 50 neighbors
15:32:16 show up a year from now, come back over, and if they
15:32:23 have all sorts of issues and go on and we turn it
15:32:26 down, then you lost out on your $300,000 investment.
15:32:30 That's what I want you to be abundantly clear of.
15:32:32 >>> I understand.
15:32:33 I didn't understand.
15:32:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I just have a problem with midnight to
15:32:42 the residents.
15:32:43 Maybe 11:00 and then go what John said Fridays and
15:32:48 Saturdays on 12.
15:32:50 I might support that without the one-year condition.
15:32:52 Just 12:00, that's late.

15:32:55 >>> I don't want to sound like I'm bartering with you.
15:32:58 I'm not.
15:32:59 I'm trying to be realistic.
15:33:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
15:33:01 >>> You know, honestly, I think if we were doing an
15:33:04 event during the week 11 p.m. is probably going to be
15:33:07 sufficient.
15:33:07 But on the weekends, you know, sometimes think start
15:33:13 at 9:00 at night.
15:33:14 And maybe when could compromise.
15:33:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ma'am, listen, let me just say this.
15:33:21 I just got a problem with it because in this
15:33:24 neighborhood, you are talking 12.
15:33:26 Listen, I see these things really get worse.
15:33:29 I'm just telling you.
15:33:30 And so with me, I'm comfortable, if you want to go to
15:33:34 11, that's a stretch.
15:33:36 I can do that.
15:33:37 And then on the weekend, on Friday and Saturdays,
15:33:40 12:00.
15:33:41 It's up to you all.
15:33:42 I only have one vote.

15:33:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Legalities compromise and say Thursday,
15:33:47 Friday and Saturday.
15:33:51 >>MARY MULHERN: I guess the question is what you will
15:33:53 accept and whether -- but you are proposing that she
15:33:56 close at 11 on weeknights but not be conditional.
15:33:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
15:34:01 >>MARY MULHERN: I can change -- and then you said
15:34:08 Thursday, Friday, Saturday for midnight.
15:34:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, midnight.
15:34:14 >>> Would the council consider 1 a.m. on Thursday,
15:34:18 Friday --
15:34:19 No.
15:34:19 >>> I'm a night owl.
15:34:22 Weapon I go to an event at 9 p.m. I'm not leaving at
15:34:25 midnight.
15:34:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
15:34:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close.
15:34:34 >> Move to close.
15:34:35 >> Second.
15:34:35 (Motion carried).
15:34:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Now --
15:34:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Amend the motion to grant the special

15:34:41 use permit 4(COP), with the restriction that the
15:34:51 business be open till 11 on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday,
15:35:01 Wednesday, and open till midnight on Thursday, Friday,
15:35:05 Saturday.
15:35:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Second.
15:35:08 >> How about Super Bowl night?
15:35:14 >>> What is the game, Friday?
15:35:16 >> We have a motion.
15:35:16 The motion is made by Councilwoman Mulhern, seconded
15:35:19 by Councilwoman Miller.
15:35:21 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
15:35:23 Opposes?
15:35:24 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and
15:35:30 Miranda voting no.
15:35:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second reading?
15:35:38 Oh, you have to bring it back.
15:35:39 >>JULIA COLE: We can leave the title on first reading
15:35:44 and the changes to the ordinance will be made within
15:35:45 the ordinance between first and second reading.
15:35:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And do you understand, do you accept
15:35:51 those conditions?
15:35:52 Is that correct?

15:35:53 >>> Can you define them one more time?
15:35:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: She didn't have to accept them
15:35:59 under the new rules.
15:36:00 >>JULIA COLE: She has a right to say what they are on
15:36:04 the record, a special use permit, where the
15:36:07 petitioner -- showing they meet these criteria and
15:36:12 then put reasonable conditions in order to show those
15:36:14 criteria have been met.
15:36:15 So it is a little different.
15:36:17 However, for the purposes, petitioner has a right to
15:36:21 indicate in the record whether or not they can agree
15:36:23 with those conditions.
15:36:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ma'am, the motion is, Sunday, Monday,
15:36:29 Tuesday, Wednesday, 11:00 you close.
15:36:32 Thursday, Friday and Saturday at midnight.
15:36:35 That's the motion.
15:36:40 >> And that's not conditional.
15:36:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Not one year conditional, no.
15:36:43 You will have to --
15:36:44 >> We don't have to consume back in a year.
15:36:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
15:36:47 I do need to explain to you, second reading come up,

15:36:50 all this could change.
15:36:51 Okay.
15:36:51 It could be voted down.
15:36:53 >>> okay.
15:36:56 And the second hearing you are talking about?
15:36:58 >> Yes.
15:36:58 And we'll find out when that is.
15:37:02 December 4th.
15:37:03 Okay.
15:37:03 >>> December 4th?
15:37:05 >> December 4th at 9:30.
15:37:07 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance on first reading,
15:37:09 an ordinance approving a special use permit S-2 for
15:37:12 alcoholic beverage sales, small venue and making
15:37:16 lawful the sale of beverage containing alcohol
15:37:18 regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine and
15:37:20 liquor, 4(COP), for consumption on premises and in
15:37:24 sealed containers for consumption off the premises in
15:37:26 connection with a business establishment on that
15:37:29 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 4318
15:37:34 through 4332 El Prado west Boulevard, Tampa, Florida,
15:37:39 as more particularly described in section 2 hereof

15:37:42 approving waivers as set forth herein waiving certain
15:37:45 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
15:37:48 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
15:37:51 conflict, providing an effective date.
15:37:54 And I have a question.
15:37:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
15:37:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Now that I read this with the
15:38:00 addresses, Cathy, is it the patio and then the
15:38:04 business?
15:38:05 That's what we are wet zoning?
15:38:10 Not the other restaurant on the premises or anything
15:38:12 else?
15:38:15 >>> No.
15:38:16 You mean the coffee shop?
15:38:18 >>MARY MULHERN: The coffee shop.
15:38:19 Because that probably shares the address with the
15:38:21 patio.
15:38:26 >>> No.
15:38:26 >>MARY MULHERN: No?
15:38:35 Do you have the java coffee shop shown there?
15:38:38 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know if we do but I want to
15:38:40 make sure we are not wet zoning something we are --

15:38:43 >>CATHERINE COYLE: This is the area.
15:38:46 This is the unit itself.
15:38:47 This is the outside area.
15:38:49 So we are wet zoning that patio and the -- the groan
15:38:53 and the reds.
15:38:54 The rest of the parcel remains without the --
15:39:03 >>> 77 is the coffee shop.
15:39:04 >> You are sharing that outdoor space.
15:39:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So theoretically the coffee shop
15:39:13 could use --
15:39:16 >>> They do not hold a license with the state.
15:39:18 Remember, you are not granting a license.
15:39:19 You are granting a location.
15:39:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What if they got one?
15:39:27 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Those always an interesting
15:39:29 question.
15:39:30 They have to come and get a --
15:39:32 >>> You are granting the location for sales.
15:39:33 They grant Tampa license.
15:39:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:39:39 The motion, all in favor signify by saying Aye.
15:39:43 Opposes?

15:39:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No.
15:39:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No.
15:39:46 >>THE CLERK: Dingfelder and Miranda voting no.
15:39:50 That included the restrictions.
15:39:51 Go again second reading and adoption on December
15:39:54 4th at 9:30.
15:39:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
15:39:58 Thank you.
15:39:59 Number 101.
15:40:01 Item 101.
15:40:12 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:40:19 Case V 08-128 located at 3801 west Cass Street.
15:40:25 They are requesting a 4(COP-X), beer, wine and liquor,
15:40:30 consumption on premises only in consumption -- in
15:40:35 association with a restaurant use that appears that
15:40:39 the building is under renovation, contains
15:40:41 approximately 7,000 square feet, there are 129 parking
15:40:44 spaces on tight, site, only 78 are actually required
15:40:47 for this use.
15:40:48 There was a previous ordinance that approved the exact
15:40:52 same classification back in 1994, and it apparently
15:40:59 contains 7,723 square feet.

15:41:02 The request is simply for the patio outdoors, and many
15:41:06 of you probably know this, as the Carrabas location.
15:41:11 They are renovating.
15:41:12 I don't know if you have seen this as he have been
15:41:14 they have been renovating.
15:41:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:41:24 >>> They are adding an outdoor patio area, 250 square
15:41:29 feet approximately.
15:41:29 I don't believe there were any objections.
15:41:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In the back is a parking lot?
15:41:35 >>> It is actually on the side, I believe.
15:41:37 Let me grab the survey.
15:41:55 >> This is the proposed concrete patio and the new
15:41:59 steps that go to it actually along the side street.
15:42:04 If you recall, this area is kind of our service area,
15:42:07 and walk-in cooler and everything so it's not a
15:42:09 totally attractive area for a patio.
15:42:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer Miller?
15:42:17 >>MARY MULHERN: Quick question.
15:42:18 Ms. Coyle, I noticed maybe it because we changed the
15:42:22 process and now the wet zonings are special use.
15:42:25 But you used to always give us the little map with the

15:42:30 zoning so we knew what was surrounding.
15:42:34 So I don't know if you have it and you could put it on
15:42:37 the overhead.
15:42:37 >>> The actual zoning atlas?
15:42:40 You know, that is actually in the rezonings and the
15:42:44 other types of special uses.
15:42:45 I can certainly have Barbara add these.
15:42:49 >>MARY MULHERN: Because it's kind of neat to know
15:42:51 what's surrounding them.
15:42:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer Miller?
15:42:54 >>> It's been a long afternoon.
15:43:00 Tampa Police Department has no objections.
15:43:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
15:43:06 Petitioner?
15:43:10 Do you want could state your name and address for
15:43:12 record, please?
15:43:13 >>> I'm representing --
15:43:20 State your name and address.
15:43:21 >>> Stacie Miller 2822 Westshore Boulevard.
15:43:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Does anyone here oppose this petition?
15:43:30 Anyone in opposition?
15:43:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.

15:43:33 >> Second.
15:43:33 (Motion carried)
15:43:38 >> Move the following ordinance approving a special
15:43:43 use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, small
15:43:45 venue and making lawful the sale of beverages
15:43:48 regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine and
15:43:50 liquor, 4(COP-X), for consumption on premises only at
15:43:53 or from that certain plot, lot or tract of land
15:43:56 located at 3801 west Cass Street, Tampa, Florida, as
15:44:01 more particularly described in section 2 hereof,
15:44:04 approving waivers set forth, wavering certain
15:44:07 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
15:44:09 findings providing for repeal of all ordinances in
15:44:11 conflict, providing an effective date.
15:44:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
15:44:16 Miranda.
15:44:16 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
15:44:18 Opposed same sign.
15:44:20 >>THE CLERK: Second reading and adoption will be held
15:44:22 on December 4th at 9:30 a.m.
15:44:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:44:26 Council, two things I need to say.

15:44:28 One is I thought we had a very good strategic planning
15:44:35 session on Tuesday.
15:44:36 Thank you.
15:44:37 Very positive, very healthy.
15:44:38 I appreciate that very much.
15:44:40 Secondly, in regards to the Tampa Sports Authority and
15:44:43 the Rogers Park usual you with first tee, there's
15:44:47 going to be a special meeting held on Tuesday,
15:44:49 December 2nd, 2008, from 2:00 to 3:00 p.m.
15:44:53 And that meeting is in conjunction with the first tee,
15:45:02 the citizens to keep Rogers Park public.
15:45:05 That group, the Sports Authority, the committee will
15:45:11 meet and bring back a recommendation to the Sports
15:45:17 Authority.
15:45:18 Intent is to try to reach compromise, it is not to
15:45:22 forgo the contract or anything.
15:45:24 That is not the intent.
15:45:25 The intent is to try to get some language for the
15:45:31 community.
15:45:32 So that's pretty much it.
15:45:33 I just wanted to bring you up to speed on that.
15:45:35 All right?

15:45:36 Anyone else?
15:45:37 Yes.
15:45:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Fran Constantino wanted me to bring
15:45:45 up the issue of La Septima, I thought perhaps the most
15:45:48 appropriate place to be would be our CRA meeting on
15:45:51 December 11th.
15:45:53 This is a question for Mr. Shelby.
15:45:55 Can you bring up something to put on the CRA agenda at
15:45:58 a City Council meeting?
15:45:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't know the answer to that.
15:46:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'll write a memo to the chairman
15:46:05 of the CRA Ms. Miller asking if we can bring that up
15:46:08 as part of the CRA meeting.
15:46:11 Thank you.
15:46:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe we have two items of new
15:46:17 business remaining that were on the addendum.
15:46:19 Would you like me oh to address it?
15:46:22 >> Those two requests?
15:46:23 We just need to pass a motion.
15:46:24 That's for January and -- clerk?
15:46:28 >>THE CLERK: We had a request from Bonnie Wise to
15:46:31 appear before council on January 22nd for

15:46:34 approximately five minutes to present an award from
15:46:36 the GFOA to the staff for the work they did in
15:46:41 preparing the financial reporting.
15:46:46 She would like to have that board presented on
15:46:48 January --
15:46:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I'm sorry. Just to inform
15:46:50 you that is a regular meeting so that will be under
15:46:52 ceremony at 9 a.m.
15:46:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And the other one?
15:46:57 >>THE CLERK: The request for Judy Lisi from the Tampa
15:47:01 Bay Performing Arts Center, to appear on February
15:47:05 5th, 2009 to make her annual presentation.
15:47:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved both of those.
15:47:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved by Councilwoman Miranda,
15:47:13 seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
15:47:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is that also to be set under ceremony
15:47:18 at 9 a.m.?
15:47:20 The February 5th?
15:47:23 Because staff reports will be 10:30.
15:47:24 I want it to be clear that Mrs. Lisi would be
15:47:29 arriving.
15:47:29 I wanted it to be clear when she would be here.

15:47:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just as a follow-up to our --
15:47:37 All in favor of the motion signify by saying Aye.
15:47:39 The motion carries which includes both of those items.
15:47:42 Yes, sir.
15:47:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sorry.
15:47:45 Ms. Mulhern, speaking of Bonnie Wise, are you going to
15:47:48 coordinate with Bonnie and started getting us some
15:47:51 updates on --
15:47:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Pension funds.
15:47:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Not just pension funds but also the
15:47:56 projections, where she thinks the budget is headed,
15:47:59 what's the plans?
15:48:05 >>> (off microphone).
15:48:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't want to wait till the
15:48:10 summer.
15:48:11 Just have something in January so we can start knowing
15:48:13 where we are heading.
15:48:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:48:16 Anything else?
15:48:17 >>THE CLERK: Just to receive.
15:48:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to receive and file.
15:48:20 >> So moved.

15:48:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
15:48:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anything else?
15:48:23 Nothing else, we stand adjourned.
15:48:24 Thank you.
15:48:32 (The City Council meeting adjourned at 3:49 p.m.)

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