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00:32:25 Tampa City Council.
00:32:28 Thursday, December 4, 2008.
00:32:33 9:00 a.m. Session
09:02:45 [Sounding gavel]
09:02:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
09:02:50 order.
09:02:50 Roll call.
09:02:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:02:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:02:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:02:59 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:03:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:03:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:03:05 First on our agenda, we have a ceremonial activity.
09:03:11 I assume this is going to be done by councilman
09:03:14 Dingfelder.
09:03:20 Honoring Diane green who is retiring from the
09:03:23 MacDill Air Force Base.
09:03:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's my distinct honor and
09:03:50 privilege to be here with Diane green.
09:03:54 And I left my glasses on the podium.

09:03:57 Diane green has given 28 years of her life and her
09:04:13 dedication to our community serving MacDill Air
09:04:17 Force Base as the liaison and chief of community
09:04:23 relations between MacDill and the City of Tampa as
09:04:26 well as I'm sure many other groups.
09:04:30 Let me go ahead and read this commendation.
09:04:33 Irma, I want you to come up and say a few words, too.
09:04:39 These guys worked with her over at MacDill.
09:04:42 Tampa City Council is pleased to recognize Diane groan
09:04:44 on her retirement at MacDill Air Force Base after
09:04:47 28 years of meritorious service in which time she
09:04:49 worked with Freedman, Greco, Iorio, Martinez, began as
09:04:56 a card punch operator in 1976.
09:04:59 She began working in MacDill the same day Ronald
09:05:02 Reagan was inaugurated in 1980, she rose to the
09:05:07 position of chief of community relations, a role which
09:05:10 brought her into constant contact with the City of
09:05:12 Tampa, a native of Louisiana, she plans to remain in
09:05:17 Tampa during her retirement.
09:05:18 We thank Diane for years of services to the community
09:05:22 and wish you good health in your retirement.
09:05:28 Congratulations.

09:05:29 [ Applause ]
09:05:33 Tony worked at the base many, many years.
09:05:36 Maybe you have a few words to say.
09:05:38 Congratulations.
09:05:39 >> Of a having worked with Diane green on both sides
09:05:45 of the street here, so to speak, I must tell you that
09:05:53 MacDill and the City of Tampa are losing an icon.
09:05:56 Her abilities to not only coordinate activities but to
09:06:02 facilitate relationships has been invaluable, not only
09:06:04 during my tenure as there but in my current role in
09:06:12 public works.
09:06:12 I just want to say thank you, and God's speed to you
09:06:15 as you move on to greener pastures.
09:06:19 [ Applause ]
09:06:21 >> Council members, I had the honor of working with
09:06:25 Diane for seven-plus years while I was out at
09:06:28 MacDill Air Force Base and she was just an
09:06:30 integral part of our intergovernmental relations
09:06:32 program, and building those ties with the community,
09:06:35 Tampa has been rewarded with the "I believe" trophy
09:06:43 and so many other showing how the city and community
09:06:46 supports the military in Tampa and Diane played a key

09:06:49 part in that.
09:06:50 And the city, the base, are going to miss that
09:06:55 continuity, that experience, and we just wish you the
09:06:58 best.
09:07:02 >>> Thank you.
09:07:04 It's been wonderful working with the City of Tampa.
09:07:08 As the plaque says, mayor Freedman was here, Greco,
09:07:15 Mayor Iorio, and it's been a great pleasure.
09:07:17 And I know many of you from some of my dealings.
09:07:22 So thank you very much.
09:07:23 This is a beautiful plaque and I will cherish it.
09:07:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Congratulations.
09:07:31 Thank you.
09:07:33 Thank you for all your years of service and hard work.
09:07:37 Okay.
09:07:37 We will have a clean-up of the agenda.
09:07:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Good morning.
09:07:43 Before you, you have the addendum to today's agenda.
09:07:47 To begin with, there is an item that is requesting to
09:07:52 be discussed by city attorney Mr. Fletcher relative to
09:07:58 a case that requires council's input.
09:08:06 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.

09:08:08 I'm here this morning to ask for a closed
09:08:12 attorney-client session in relation to the Monsenaro
09:08:17 v. City of Tampa matter, case number 06-CA-0042-81.
09:08:25 The purpose of the meeting would be to discuss
09:08:28 litigation strategy and expenses potentially related
09:08:31 to that and/or settlement negotiations.
09:08:34 And I would like to schedule that for next week, next
09:08:37 Thursday, the 11th, at 10:30, in talking with the
09:08:43 chairman it sounded like he would have time to do that
09:08:46 at 10:30 and still make the other obligations that are
09:08:50 scheduled that day.
09:08:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Before the meeting, don't get me
09:08:57 wrong, would like to know the date this happened so I
09:09:01 can review the tapes myself.
09:09:02 >> I will get that before you.
09:09:03 It's before council twice so we will have two sets of
09:09:06 tapes to get to you.
09:09:07 >> I appreciate it.
09:09:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Let me ask a question.
09:09:10 Is it possible to have that meeting back in our
09:09:12 conference room here on that particular day?
09:09:16 >>> If we have got space we can do that rather than

09:09:18 going up.
09:09:19 >>GWEN MILLER:
09:09:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It will save time from the standpoint
09:09:22 we can get out of our CRA meeting at 10:30 and go
09:09:25 right back here, no more than 30 minutes, and even go
09:09:30 to the holiday party.
09:09:31 Just trying to save some time.
09:09:33 So we can work on that.
09:09:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Change the time?
09:09:41 >> 10:30.
09:09:42 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Which is a different time than the
09:09:46 memo.
09:09:47 Because of time constraints it was thought 10:30 would
09:09:49 be better and we'll schedule it for the conference
09:09:51 room.
09:09:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion by councilman Miranda, seconded
09:09:57 by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:09:58 (Motion carried)
09:10:00 Thank you, sir.
09:10:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item 8 is a request to add exhibits A
09:10:06 and B to the item, when it is moved.
09:10:09 Item 59 is requesting a substitute to correct the

09:10:12 petitioner's name.
09:10:14 You have several items for public hearings.
09:10:16 Items 79, 84, and 86 are being requested to be
09:10:21 continued, and it will be appropriate to take those
09:10:24 items up at that time.
09:10:27 With regard to item 67, changes to the agenda, order,
09:10:31 there is a request by the petitioner to hear item 67 V
09:10:36 08-127 as soon as possible after 9:30 a.m.
09:10:42 Item 71 is a request by the petitioner that even
09:10:46 though that is set for a public hearing, he's
09:10:48 requesting that it take place after the time which is
09:10:51 perfectly acceptable.
09:10:54 And V-08-63 regarding the rezoning at the southwest
09:10:59 corner of Bayshore and Bay to Bay not take place till
09:11:03 after lunch at 1:30 o'clock p.m.
09:11:07 And just a reminder that item 72 and 73, the
09:11:10 resolutions must be adopted prior to closing public
09:11:12 hearing.
09:11:13 And I'll make sure that happens.
09:11:15 I'm not aware of any other changes, Mr. Chairman.
09:11:17 I present the agenda.
09:11:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, councilman?

09:11:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When we get to the -- looks like
09:11:27 the first committee report, items 11, parks and rec,
09:11:32 11, 12, 13 -- they look like they are traveling
09:11:37 together.
09:11:37 I would like those pulled, at a minimum for a separate
09:11:42 vote.
09:11:42 I'm not sure I need staff here or not.
09:11:46 But at least pull them out of consent for a second
09:11:55 vote.
09:11:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Actually, I would be happy to ask
09:12:01 staff to comment on them.
09:12:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's fine.
09:12:06 It's your prerogative.
09:12:07 Then on public works, item 31, $5 million item that
09:12:15 I'm not totally clear on.
09:12:24 If Charlie can enlighten me, that might be helpful
09:12:26 when we get there.
09:12:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, there are some
09:12:30 procedural rules and I'm not too much in favor of them
09:12:32 but I had discussed this with the City Council
09:12:34 attorney just last week regarding the pulling of
09:12:38 items.

09:12:42 There's somewhere in the wording that I think should
09:12:44 be amended, and that's just my thought.
09:12:46 I'm not opposed to pulling any item.
09:12:48 But I think because for good reason all the council
09:12:52 members are here to do the best of their ability for
09:12:54 the city.
09:12:55 However, that rule I asked the City Council attorney
09:13:01 to address is a little bit ambiguous to some parts and
09:13:04 I would like to you address that at this point.
09:13:06 >>> Thank you, Mr. Miranda.
09:13:10 Council rule that Mr. Miranda is referring to is rule
09:13:13 7-C.
09:13:13 It reads as follows.
09:13:15 An individual member of City Council wanting to remove
09:13:18 an item from the committee reports consent agenda
09:13:22 should attempt to do so a day or more in advance of
09:13:25 the meeting by notifying the members of council, the
09:13:27 clerk, and the chief of staff by memorandum or e-mail
09:13:30 stating whether the member of council wishes to be
09:13:33 present to discuss the item.
09:13:35 And I believe what Mr. Miranda is referring to in
09:13:37 terms of ambiguity, at the time of the adoption there

09:13:42 was extensive discussion by council, the phrase was
09:13:47 put in that council -- that an individual member
09:13:50 should attempt to do so a day or more in advance.
09:13:53 And I believe that is --
09:13:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, and I am certainly not
09:13:57 bringing it up on this instance.
09:13:59 It's been on my mind.
09:14:00 I have been discussing it with Mr. Shelby for some
09:14:02 time.
09:14:03 And I thought today was just a day to bring it up.
09:14:06 No reflection on Mr. Dingfelder or anyone here.
09:14:08 I just thought that was written by some previous
09:14:12 council for a reason.
09:14:13 And I don't know what the reason was.
09:14:15 So I just wonder maybe somewhere along the line, we
09:14:18 can discuss it later on, whenever we want, but don't
09:14:22 make it ambiguous so you can do or not do at the same
09:14:24 time.
09:14:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:14:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And Mr. Shelby is exactly right.
09:14:28 When we adopted that, we talked about it at length.
09:14:31 Because previously we never had a rule like that at

09:14:33 all.
09:14:34 And so we eased into that rule.
09:14:37 Some people wanted it to be, you know, that you will
09:14:41 do it a day in advance or you can't do it at all.
09:14:45 The problem is that truly ties our hands because we
09:14:48 all have other schedules, and in this instance, just
09:14:51 for example, I didn't get a chance to do everything I
09:14:55 needed to do before last night in terms of looking at
09:15:01 this.
09:15:01 Usually I try and do it a few days in advance.
09:15:05 So if we change that rule, and negate that, then we
09:15:08 can't change to at least vote on them separately.
09:15:13 So I think the flexibility is there for our benefit.
09:15:15 So that way if it comes down to the fact that it's
09:15:18 council day and you need to pull items, you still have
09:15:20 the flexibility to do it.
09:15:22 We should all make our best efforts to do it a day in
09:15:25 advance and I think we do.
09:15:26 But when we can't, we can't, and we should still allow
09:15:29 ours it is flexibility.
09:15:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Why don't we discuss that more during
09:15:33 new business or some other part of the agenda.

09:15:36 Because that was the reason why we did what we did.
09:15:38 So let's take it up at that time, okay?
09:15:41 Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:15:44 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to see -- number 9, I have
09:15:49 some questions about that.
09:15:50 And I see that Mr. Daignault is going to be here for
09:15:53 staff reports on number 81.
09:15:55 So maybe he could just take a minute to explain --
09:16:03 Number 9?
09:16:04 >>MARY MULHERN: Number 9, why the chiller never goes a
09:16:11 way, keeps coming back.
09:16:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So you are pulling number 9 then.
09:16:14 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
09:16:15 I'm just saying he will be here for a staff report so
09:16:18 he can just address it.
09:16:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
09:16:20 Motion on the changes to the agenda.
09:16:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
09:16:24 >> Second.
09:16:25 (Motion carried).
09:16:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:16:28 Public comment.

09:16:29 We set aside time to allow the public to come address
09:16:33 council.
09:16:34 You have three minutes to come forward, state your
09:16:37 name and address for the record.
09:16:38 You have three minutes to state any comment that you
09:16:42 may have.
09:16:43 You may speak to any item on the agenda.
09:16:46 However, we do give preference to those items.
09:16:51 All right?
09:16:52 If you wish to address council, will you please come
09:16:54 forward at this time?
09:16:56 Anyone wish to address council?
09:16:58 Okay.
09:16:59 Seeing -- pardon me?
09:17:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Not a public hearing.
09:17:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If it's not a public hearing you can
09:17:05 address council.
09:17:06 >> I'm here to comment on the TECO energy bill.
09:17:12 Is this the appropriate time to do that?
09:17:16 >>GWEN MILLER: 1:30.
09:17:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:17:18 1:30.

09:17:20 Anyone else?
09:17:24 Anyone else?
09:17:25 Okay.
09:17:29 >> Pastor Williams, and from my understanding, can you
09:17:37 comment at 1:30?
09:17:39 >> On the TECO?
09:17:40 Yes, 1:30 is the time.
09:17:42 Yes, sir.
09:17:42 >> So you all -- I don't want you to tell me I only
09:17:47 got two minutes and I have to sit down, because I got
09:17:49 a lot of statements that I want to talk about.
09:17:53 I think it would be best to talk about it now.
09:17:58 Because I think you all are giving TECO a blank check.
09:18:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, you will have three minutes this
09:18:04 afternoon.
09:18:04 >>> 1:30?
09:18:09 >> It will be soon after 1:30.
09:18:10 We have a couple other issues that are there.
09:18:13 We placed it on the agenda so we can have enough time.
09:18:16 Thank you very much.
09:18:16 Anyone else?
09:18:17 Okay.

09:18:19 Is it okay to take up that item 67 now, a few minutes
09:18:23 before 9:30?
09:18:25 Should we wait till 9:30?
09:18:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If it is a public hearing it is
09:18:30 scheduled to not begin before 9:30.
09:18:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then we will move then to item number
09:18:36 2.
09:18:40 Do we have anyone requesting reconsideration on any
09:18:44 legislative matter?
09:18:45 Thank you.
09:18:46 Item number 2.
09:18:48 Ordinance presented for first reading.
09:18:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:18:51 And I would like to recognize the history center
09:18:54 president and chairman of the board who are here with
09:18:56 us this morning.
09:18:57 I wondered if they want to comment on this because
09:18:59 this is sort of germane.
09:19:01 I think this request came to them.
09:19:05 >>> George Howell, chairman of the history center.
09:19:09 We are here to answer any questions, if anyone has
09:19:13 any, on the name change of the street.

09:19:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: When are you opening?
09:19:18 >>> January 17th is our public opening.
09:19:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:19:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That was my question, too.
09:19:25 This item I think is rather perfunctory but the more
09:19:29 exciting item is the history center itself, and how
09:19:31 many years, what, 20 years?
09:19:35 Been working on it and the county deserves great
09:19:38 credit, as well as the city, and of course you folks.
09:19:40 So we thank you for all your hard work.
09:19:43 And everybody will be out there on January --
09:19:46 >>> 17th.
09:19:47 Will be the ribbon cutting.
09:19:49 And I think that C.J. has notified your staff and the
09:19:54 mayor about today, the ribbon cutting and so forth,
09:19:57 and we look forward to seeing you there.
09:19:59 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a history question.
09:20:04 Was waters street the original name of that street?
09:20:08 >>> Yes, it was.
09:20:10 >>MARY MULHERN: We are just calling it old because it
09:20:12 was the original.
09:20:13 >>> I think part of that was to avoid any confusion

09:20:16 about Waters Avenue.
09:20:19 But it ended up fine.
09:20:21 That's a good name.
09:20:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
09:20:24 This has been a long time coming.
09:20:25 I remember it well.
09:20:28 I was on the county commission supporting it.
09:20:30 And coming back to us and all that.
09:20:32 But now we are almost there.
09:20:35 January 17th.
09:20:36 Great day for this community, for Tampa, for the City
09:20:40 of Tampa.
09:20:41 Thank you again for your hard work and leadership.
09:20:46 >>> If I could mention one other thing.
09:20:48 Based on the great generosity of the city for our
09:20:52 beautiful site for allowing us temporary quarters in
09:20:55 1996, I believe, the convention center annex, and
09:20:59 operating funds and so forth, we would like to absorb
09:21:04 the 1,000 whatever it costs.
09:21:07 I know times are tight.
09:21:09 It's not a lot of money.
09:21:10 But we would like to pay for it.

09:21:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move an ordinance
09:21:16 of the city of Tampa, Florida rescinding ordinance
09:21:19 2004-5 adopted on January 8, 2004, known as ice palace
09:21:25 drive to St. Pete Times Forum Drive providing for
09:21:29 renaming that certain roadway known as St. Pete forums
09:21:33 drive from Franklin Street to Channelside Drive in
09:21:37 Hillsborough County Florida so it can be known as old
09:21:40 waters street, a pending expenditure of funds in the
09:21:43 amounts of $1181.60 for associated costs, providing an
09:21:48 effective date.
09:21:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It has been seconded by councilman
09:21:52 Miranda.
09:21:52 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:21:55 Opposes same sign.
09:21:55 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:21:57 Second reading of the ordinance will be held December
09:22:00 18th at 9:30 a.m.
09:22:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We go to committee reports at this
09:22:06 time.
09:22:07 Public Safety Committee, Councilwoman Gwen Miller.
09:22:14 >> Second.
09:22:17 (Motion carried).

09:22:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Parks and recreation, Councilwoman
09:22:22 Linda Saul-Sena.
09:22:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move resolution 8,
09:22:27 10 and 14 and 15.
09:22:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
09:22:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:22:32 (Motion carried).
09:22:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Public Works Committee, councilman
09:22:41 Charlie Miranda.
09:22:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move 16 through 32 withholding 31
09:22:46 which is a three year contract with the folks who have
09:22:48 been running MacKay Bay for some period of time, and
09:22:51 that's about a million seven a year times three years,
09:22:54 and therefore that's the figure 5 million-something.
09:22:59 We will hold 31 until the department gets here,
09:23:02 whoever administration is sending.
09:23:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
09:23:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:23:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second by Councilwoman Linda
09:23:08 Saul-Sena.
09:23:08 (Motion carried)
09:23:10 Finance Committee, Councilwoman Mary Mulhern.

09:23:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 33 through 38.
09:23:15 >> Second.
09:23:18 >> Seconded by Councilwoman Linda Saul-Sena.
09:23:21 (Motion carried)
09:23:24 Building and zoning, councilman Caetano.
09:23:29 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I want to move items 39 to 47
09:23:35 excluding 40.
09:23:36 I think we vetted on that already, the CRA.
09:23:40 >>MARY MULHERN: We have to vote again.
09:23:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Move items 39 to 47.
09:23:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:23:48 (Motion carried)
09:23:50 Transportation committee, councilman John Dingfelder.
09:23:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move item 48 through 56.
09:23:57 >> Second.
09:23:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to comment on one of
09:24:01 the items.
09:24:03 Number 53 talks about microsurfacing services.
09:24:09 Currently the City of Tampa has no problem to remove
09:24:11 asphalt.
09:24:13 If a road was initially bricked and then asphalted
09:24:16 over, our current policy is to keep asphalting it

09:24:22 over.
09:24:23 We know brick roads last forever and the city of
09:24:25 Orlando for maybe the last search, eight years, has
09:24:28 had a policy if residents on a street put in the
09:24:31 money, they will remove the asphalt from the street,
09:24:34 revealing the brick, and enhancing the property of the
09:24:37 property on either side.
09:24:38 It something we looked at years ago.
09:24:40 We haven't looked at it recently.
09:24:42 The cost of asphalt has continued to increase.
09:24:45 And property owners particularly in historic
09:24:49 neighborhoods expressed interest in having the option
09:24:51 of going back to the brick streets.
09:24:53 So I think it's something we should take a look at and
09:24:56 cost out and see if that might be feasible, not just
09:24:59 that the city would pick up the tabs but the
09:25:01 residents.
09:25:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I agree with that, if the citizens
09:25:04 of those areas, whoever they are, want to pick up the
09:25:08 cost of removing the asphalt, does that mean the cost
09:25:10 of removing the asphalt and also repaving the streets
09:25:13 with the original bricks?

09:25:15 Or does that mean only removing the asphalt?
09:25:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, what they have done in
09:25:20 Orlando is, once they remove the asphalt, the brick
09:25:23 was there.
09:25:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I'm not a genius when it comes
09:25:29 to streets.
09:25:30 Maintenance and operation, I admit to be that.
09:25:32 But what I'm saying, when those streets were designed,
09:25:36 there was very little traffic in the city.
09:25:38 Now there's much heavier trucks coming in even when
09:25:41 you order something from one of the department stores
09:25:43 they bring a 3-ton truck to deliver your 28-pound box
09:25:49 of something.
09:25:50 I want to make sure those streets can hold up to that.
09:25:52 So maybe if you include that in your motion to find
09:25:55 out.
09:25:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I will, the maintenance.
09:25:59 I'll tell you, in Orlando it's been hugely popular and
09:26:02 there's a long line of people who want to participate.
09:26:04 And this would not be for commercial streets.
09:26:07 It's for local residential streets.
09:26:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But not related to this item.

09:26:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Not related to this item.
09:26:14 This just reminded me I heard this from residents who
09:26:18 are interested in pursuing it.
09:26:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's moved and seconded on
09:26:23 transportation.
09:26:25 All in favor?
09:26:27 Opposes?
09:26:27 So moved, okay.
09:26:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to ask in 90 days for
09:26:32 a written report from the administration on the
09:26:39 feasibility of removing the asphalt from brick streets
09:26:44 with the idea that the residents on both sides of the
09:26:47 street would pay for it.
09:26:48 And the way that they are assessed is by lineal foot.
09:26:52 If you have 100 feet, then you pay that portion of the
09:26:56 cost, including the cost of maintenance once it's
09:26:59 returned to its brick condition.
09:27:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll second it with a friendly
09:27:04 suggestion that the report also included a summary of
09:27:07 how they do it in Orlando.
09:27:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
09:27:12 And I think in addition to transportation people

09:27:14 looking at this, I think Dennis with historic
09:27:17 preservation probably has something he could maybe
09:27:20 talk to his peers.
09:27:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have a motion to move and second by
09:27:26 councilman Dingfelder.
09:27:27 (Motion carried)
09:27:28 Move to our public hearing 9:30 public hearing.
09:27:38 >> Move to open.
09:27:38 >> Second.
09:27:39 (Motion carried).
09:27:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I want to be clear of the time.
09:27:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have 9:30 now, I believe.
09:27:48 I have a Cuban watch on.
09:27:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That clock says 9:30.
09:27:55 This says 9:27.
09:28:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm running a little behind now.
09:28:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If she comes up and gives us an
09:28:15 introduction, it will chime.
09:28:19 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.
09:28:24 Item numbers 61, 62, 64 through 70 require site plans,
09:28:30 certified by the zoning administrator and have been
09:28:32 provided to the clerk.

09:28:33 I have copies of those plans in case you have any
09:28:35 questions.
09:28:41 Item number 63 cannot be certified.
09:28:43 We Continuance until the 18th, the next morning
09:28:47 meeting.
09:28:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So item 63 cannot be certified.
09:28:50 And item 63 then, we have to continue that.
09:28:58 >>LaCHONE DOCK: To November 18th.
09:29:02 December 18th.
09:29:04 >>GWEN MILLER: December.
09:29:05 8th.
09:29:06 December 8th.
09:29:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:29:14 Seconded by Councilwoman Linda Saul-Sena.
09:29:16 (Motion carried)
09:29:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other items?
09:29:43 Item 67.
09:29:44 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
09:29:46 The hours of operation have been placed on the site
09:29:47 plan.
09:29:48 I believe the ordinance is on file.
09:29:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We can go ahead and read that.

09:29:55 This is a public hearing.
09:29:56 Anyone wish to address council on 67?
09:29:58 This is a public hearing on 67.
09:30:08 They have to take somebody to the hospital.
09:30:10 This item was asked to be taken first because the
09:30:12 person has a doctor's appointment or something, as I
09:30:14 recall.
09:30:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want to refresh your
09:30:20 recollection as to the hours of operation?
09:30:21 Or do you feel comfortable going forward?
09:30:24 >> I think there were some questions about that from
09:30:25 the petitioner?
09:30:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't know if petitioner has any
09:30:28 questions, but the site plan does name the hours of
09:30:31 operation.
09:30:31 I have not seen them.
09:30:32 They have been certified, but maybe council would like
09:30:37 it refreshed.
09:30:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm only saying I'm clear.
09:30:41 I want to make sure, is the petitioner clear, you
09:30:44 know?
09:30:44 As long as she's clear, I'm fine.

09:30:46 I know what the hours are.
09:30:48 >> Okay, we are good.
09:30:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: With respect to you, sir, I think
09:30:52 my motion originally was 57 to 58, if I may so there
09:30:55 may be no confusion, continue to open 59 through 71.
09:31:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I thought you opened all of them.
09:31:07 >> No, sir, I did not.
09:31:10 >> Second.
09:31:11 (Motion carried).
09:31:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Good.
09:31:13 Thank you.
09:31:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So what are the hours we agreed on
09:31:16 that are in the ordinance?
09:31:17 >> Would you like me to speak?
09:31:22 >> On the item.
09:31:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Whoever has the resolution for the
09:31:25 ordinance.
09:31:26 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
09:31:27 For clarification the hours on Sunday are from 12 p.m.
09:31:30 to 11 o'clock p.m.
09:31:31 Monday through Wednesday from 10 a.m. to 11 o'clock
09:31:33 p.m.

09:31:34 Thursday through Saturday from 10 a.m. to 12 a.m
09:31:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public on 67?
09:31:49 >> Move to close.
09:31:50 >> Second.
09:31:51 (Motion carried).
09:31:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I voted in the negative.
09:31:59 There was two Nay votes as I recall.
09:32:06 >>GWEN MILLER: I'll read it.
09:32:07 An ordinance presented for second reading, an
09:32:11 ordinance approving a special use permit S-2 for
09:32:13 alcoholic beverage sales, small venue and making
09:32:17 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol
09:32:19 regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine and
09:32:21 liquor, 4(COP), for consumption on the premises and in
09:32:24 sealed containers for consumption off the premises in
09:32:26 connection with a business establishment on that
09:32:28 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at
09:32:31 4318-4332 west El Prado Boulevard in Tampa, Florida as
09:32:37 more particularly described in section 2 hereof
09:32:40 approving waivers as Seth for the herein wavering
09:32:43 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
09:32:46 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in

09:32:48 conflict, providing an effective date.
09:32:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:32:52 Record your vote, please.
09:32:55 Item 67.
09:33:02 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda and
09:33:04 Dingfelder voting no.
09:33:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 57.
09:33:13 Anyone wishing to address council on item 57?
09:33:15 Item 57.
09:33:24 >>> Mr. Michelini is out here.
09:33:27 I just want to be sure.
09:33:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:33:45 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I had a chance to review the
09:33:47 proposed changes of chapter 9, and there were a couple
09:33:50 of things that sort of became apparent.
09:33:53 One of the things -- and I know this doesn't really
09:33:57 have as much to do with me representing people before
09:33:59 the code board but rather people that don't have the
09:34:02 ability to have someone help them through the process.
09:34:06 It is an intimidating process.
09:34:08 They get before these boards and they get before the
09:34:10 special magistrate and there's no one those an

09:34:14 advocate or at least a neutral party assisting them.
09:34:18 There's an attorney for the board.
09:34:19 There's an attorney for the inspectors who are
09:34:21 bringing the case.
09:34:21 But you have to remember these people are not
09:34:23 petitioners.
09:34:25 These people are being accused of having done
09:34:27 something improperly.
09:34:29 And because of that, they should have someone to
09:34:32 assist them.
09:34:33 And to assist them in resolving the matter, not to
09:34:39 make the matter go away, but as the city says their
09:34:43 policy is for compliance and they need someone to help
09:34:45 them understand what that compliance means.
09:34:48 And I'm not suggesting the clean team be used for
09:34:50 that.
09:34:51 But you have mediation team.
09:34:53 You have clean teams.
09:34:54 You have "Paint Your Heart Out" teams.
09:34:56 And there are people who are financially distressed
09:34:58 that cannot make those changes on their own.
09:35:02 Provisions need to be made so that when they are in

09:35:05 this process, they need some assistance.
09:35:08 You have, as recently as last month, I would say four
09:35:12 or five of the individuals that were being brought
09:35:14 before the board, their homes were in foreclosure.
09:35:17 They had no access to their property.
09:35:19 And these are their homes.
09:35:20 These are not commercial businesses.
09:35:21 These are the residential homes in foreclosure that
09:35:24 they can't paint, they can't fix doors, they can't fix
09:35:27 windows, and so they are basically left out in the
09:35:30 cold.
09:35:32 I would say that they should be entitled to some
09:35:35 assistance whether it's legal council, to a public
09:35:38 defender type of person or an individual on the staff.
09:35:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just raise the question here
09:35:44 with staff.
09:35:45 What opportunities are there for mediation or for
09:35:47 assistance to those persons who are found in
09:35:52 violation?
09:35:54 Is there anything in place, the person says my house
09:36:02 is not in compliance, I come down and talk to
09:36:06 somebody, what Avenue, what venue is available for me

09:36:08 as a person who has violated this ordinance?
09:36:16 >>> To first talk about mediation.
09:36:19 There's no type of any formal mediation in place.
09:36:21 What does happen in most cases when they come in front
09:36:24 of the hearing master is when the person comes up, and
09:36:29 they get the opportunity to plead as to whether or not
09:36:32 they are guilty of a violation, and if they say they
09:36:36 have violation, then the hearing master works with
09:36:39 code enforcement, and the person that's up there to
09:36:44 see how long it will take them to bring the property
09:36:47 into compliance.
09:36:48 There is always an effort for the person to be
09:36:50 successful, given the time to bring it into
09:36:55 compliance.
09:36:56 I think in answer to your question there's no real
09:36:58 formal mediation other than the informal that happens
09:37:01 in front of the hearing master, trying to give plenty
09:37:04 of opportunity to bring violations into compliance.
09:37:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Does the citation say you have X
09:37:12 number of days to come into compliance?
09:37:14 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Yes.
09:37:15 And meet with the department of code enforcement to

09:37:19 give all those time tables but before it even gets to
09:37:21 the board, you know, from my observation, it's
09:37:24 probably -- the person has been notified in the
09:37:27 violation about three to six months prior to that
09:37:30 point.
09:37:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So that the time span to come into
09:37:34 compliance, then when they don't come into compliance
09:37:40 come before the code boards, the hearing master,
09:37:42 whatever magistrate, and at that point, the
09:37:45 opportunity there to negotiator to mediate with the
09:37:48 hearing officer.
09:37:48 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Yes.
09:37:51 For a time, again, to set the deadline out, and try to
09:37:55 set that deadline out for a period of time, trying to
09:38:00 give the people enough time to be successful but not
09:38:03 so much time that they put it out so far that nothing
09:38:06 gets done and people have a tendency to procrastinate.
09:38:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there anything in place if I can't
09:38:11 afford a $10,000 roof or whatever?
09:38:18 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Not that I am aware of.
09:38:19 I haven't had to address that situation.
09:38:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think that's what Mr. Michelini is

09:38:24 talking about.
09:38:25 >>> Mr. Michelini brought up two things.
09:38:27 He brought the example of someone, say, people are in
09:38:32 foreclosure, the property is in foreclosure.
09:38:34 We are looking at that, in that sense, depending upon
09:38:38 what the violation is, we are going to maybe start
09:38:41 looking at the civil citation process for that.
09:38:45 In other words, if someone is in foreclosure, their
09:38:47 property is in foreclosure, our Code Enforcement Board
09:38:51 isn't going to be effective anyhow because the lien
09:38:54 could very well get foreclosed out.
09:38:57 But if the violation, let's say, trash debris or high
09:39:03 grass, we still need to have that come into
09:39:05 compliance.
09:39:06 And we can't let people just give up their
09:39:09 responsibilities to their neighbors and letting the
09:39:11 property go, just because they are in foreclosure.
09:39:15 Until they lose the ownership of that property, they
09:39:17 at least need to mow it and keep it clean.
09:39:19 So we are looking at implementing the civil citation
09:39:23 process in those types of circumstances.
09:39:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern, Caetano.

09:39:31 I'm sorry, councilman Caetano.
09:39:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, we don't need an
09:39:35 incident like happened here a couple weeks ago when
09:39:38 this gentleman got up and I guess he thought everybody
09:39:42 was on him.
09:39:43 He probably needs representation.
09:39:46 Maybe he can't afford it.
09:39:47 I don't know anything about the gentleman.
09:39:49 But he was probably distressed, humiliated and
09:39:53 everything else.
09:39:53 I think we need some sort of counsel for these people,
09:39:58 if they cannot afford it.
09:40:00 And we can't be having an incident like happened here
09:40:03 a couple weeks ago.
09:40:05 And I think these people need representation.
09:40:08 If they are financially distressed, they can't fix
09:40:11 their windows in their house, whatever it may be, we
09:40:13 need to help them.
09:40:15 We help a lot of others.
09:40:17 We have public defenders when somebody commits a
09:40:20 crime, they have a public defender through the state.
09:40:24 We need something through the city that's going to

09:40:26 help these people.
09:40:27 >>> I understand.
09:40:29 That I can't really address that.
09:40:31 But I can say this.
09:40:32 I don't want this impression out there that there are
09:40:35 hearing masters and the boards are trying to
09:40:37 intimidate people.
09:40:39 They are volunteers.
09:40:39 Remember, they are citizen volunteers that work very
09:40:42 hard at trying to work with people.
09:40:43 I don't want to have an impression out there that they
09:40:45 are this awful board or awful people.
09:40:49 They do try to work very hard with people and take
09:40:51 that into consideration.
09:40:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, yes.
09:40:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I really appreciate Mr. Michelini
09:41:09 bringing that to us.
09:41:10 I think when people come here, it would are more
09:41:14 efficient and use our staff resources more efficiently
09:41:16 if we could have someone perhaps out in the hall
09:41:24 before they come to chambers sort of clarify the
09:41:26 situation.

09:41:27 I know orphan times people have already paid their
09:41:29 fines and addressed things, and spend five hours
09:41:32 waiting having to take off a day of work, losing that
09:41:35 income, to come to the board and say, I paid it, I've
09:41:38 done it, why am I being forced to spend five hours
09:41:42 here?
09:41:43 Sara Romeo who recently was lauded for redoing to the
09:41:47 house for women who are homeless spent five hours here
09:41:51 and just said it was so inefficient and so poorly
09:41:54 handled.
09:41:55 So I think what we need to do is look at the whole
09:41:57 administrative process and give people a list of
09:42:00 resources if they are under financial distress,
09:42:04 whether it's the SHIP program, senior home improvement
09:42:08 program, and, you know, boy scouts are looking for
09:42:11 projects.
09:42:12 There are a lot of resources out in the community and
09:42:14 we need to be more proactive in match making between
09:42:17 people with needs and resources that are there.
09:42:23 I don't think the legal department is the one to do
09:42:25 that.
09:42:25 I think we need to ask the administration to look for

09:42:31 their resources and think of a way to address this.
09:42:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't want to spend a lot more time
09:42:35 on this.
09:42:36 We have a lot of stuff to do today.
09:42:38 Let me raise this question.
09:42:39 I understand there is a diversion program, is that
09:42:42 right, that was in place?
09:42:43 What happened to that?
09:42:51 >>> Mr. Chair, I don't have the answer to that.
09:42:53 But I don't want -- I will try to look into it.
09:42:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I understand there was some type of
09:42:59 diversion program in place.
09:43:00 Do you know anything about that, Mr. Michelini?
09:43:02 >>STEVE MICHELINI: There was a city staff person that
09:43:04 was involved with that, Barbara boning was involved
09:43:12 with that.
09:43:13 I'm not attacking the board or the magistrates.
09:43:15 The process itself is frightening.
09:43:20 And I'm not attacking city staff because those
09:43:22 inspectors do work hard to try to make sure people
09:43:24 understand.
09:43:25 But there is such a gap between being an accuse and

09:43:29 standing before aboard that they don't understand, and
09:43:31 trying to figure out what to do, and they are
09:43:34 distressed.
09:43:34 And I put together some suggestions that perhaps maybe
09:43:38 we can defer this for a week or so.
09:43:40 And maybe Ernie and I can get together and see if
09:43:45 there's something that can be done that makes more
09:43:46 sense and makes it a more friendly, kinder and gentler
09:43:51 city instead of the heavier hand.
09:43:52 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to move to continue this
09:43:57 in order for -- talk to our legal department, code
09:44:00 enforcement.
09:44:02 >> Second.
09:44:03 >>MARY MULHERN: About these particular concerns.
09:44:05 And I don't know if a week is enough time.
09:44:08 Two weeks?
09:44:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't know if two weeks.
09:44:12 Next regular meeting.
09:44:19 >>MARY MULHERN: Do you feel that's enough time?
09:44:21 Because we are going to need your help, too.
09:44:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can you include in the motion the
09:44:26 report as to what happened to the diversion program?

09:44:28 Have staff look at it?
09:44:29 If there was a diversion program in place, let's try
09:44:32 to get some update or report on that.
09:44:35 >>MARY MULHERN: We'll continue this to December
09:44:38 18th to review with legal the changes to chapter
09:44:42 9, including whether we have, or if we can put in
09:44:46 place, or put in place again, a diversion program for
09:44:51 people --
09:44:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: This is here for second reading.
09:44:56 Would you wish the ordinance to continue to 9:30 and
09:45:01 the additional information to be taken up also at that
09:45:02 time?
09:45:04 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
09:45:09 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I may, I did not hear all of
09:45:12 that discussion, but from what I gather, we are
09:45:16 looking at creating a new program within the code
09:45:19 department.
09:45:20 And I want to be clear that I think when we come back,
09:45:24 we will have had time to look at Mr. Michelini's
09:45:27 issue, which I don't believe is addressed in the
09:45:29 current code provisions, amendments that are coming
09:45:32 before you.

09:45:33 So what I suspect will happen, we will have taken a
09:45:36 position on his recommendations but probably have more
09:45:41 or less the same code language before you because
09:45:43 developing any code program is going to take more than
09:45:44 a couple of weeks.
09:45:47 And I don't think we really need to hold up what was
09:45:52 kind of housekeeping language in this ordinance any
09:45:54 longer than necessary to make sure that we are not
09:45:57 doing something worse.
09:45:59 >>MARY MULHERN: And as long as -- apparently people
09:46:03 thought there was a program in place.
09:46:04 And if we could find out why that was or what happened
09:46:07 with that, that would be great.
09:46:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:46:10 There is a motion to continue.
09:46:15 Do you want to address that issue?
09:46:18 I see you rushing in.
09:46:19 >>> Good morning.
09:46:21 And I have been back and forth.
09:46:22 I was not able to hear the whole discussion.
09:46:24 But I did want to address the diversion cases.
09:46:27 I heard that come up.

09:46:28 Sharon West of housing and community development
09:46:30 division is the person who is the liaison with the
09:46:34 code enforcement department.
09:46:36 And when they do identify a person that is what you
09:46:39 would call income qualified, eligible or a center for
09:46:46 women she does work with the homeowner who has been
09:46:48 cited or could be cited in order to make the repairs
09:46:51 necessary.
09:46:51 I would be happy as we talk about our housing program
09:46:54 in January to bring that back as one of the items so
09:46:57 that she can --
09:46:58 So we do have a diversion program that's in place that
09:47:00 will address the issues that Mr. Michelini raised.
09:47:03 >>CINDY MILLER: Well, at least those that have been
09:47:07 referred to us and we can provide you better
09:47:10 information.
09:47:10 As to representation before the Code Enforcement
09:47:11 Board, that is a different matter.
09:47:13 But when we do have the cases referred to us, we do
09:47:16 have a list that we try to address.
09:47:18 And I'll be glad to bring that forward to you.
09:47:20 >> It sounds to me like the diversion program isn't

09:47:25 providing.
09:47:26 Is part of that to provide them legal --
09:47:29 >>CINDY MILLER: No, it is not for legal matters.
09:47:31 I'm saying that my comments have nothing to do with
09:47:36 representing before the board.
09:47:37 We are hoping to be able to work with the homeowner
09:47:39 before it gets to that point.
09:47:41 That's what our diversion program is for.
09:47:44 >> It sounds like that is not the answer.
09:47:46 >>> we just wanted to let you know we do have a
09:47:48 program that we do try to help the homeowners before
09:47:51 it gets to the point of Code Enforcement Board.
09:47:53 From that standpoint I did want you to have that bit
09:47:55 of information.
09:47:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:47:56 >> It does mach me wonder, though, if that doesn't
09:48:03 happen.
09:48:03 I can easily see about people falling in to talking
09:48:08 with Sharon West about this.
09:48:09 I think the Code Enforcement Board needs to know
09:48:12 that's in place, even if it's not a legal thing they
09:48:15 can do, at least they can refer people who are in

09:48:20 trouble once they get to code enforcement.
09:48:23 >>> Perhaps the best situation would be to write that
09:48:24 up in some kind of outline so we are able to provide
09:48:28 that information to you as well.
09:48:29 >> And then to hear from legal about whether there is
09:48:31 some way to codify that, if we should, or if it could
09:48:35 be -- might be chapter 9, I don't know.
09:48:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Could you bring that back in two
09:48:43 weeks?
09:48:43 Bring it back in two weeks.
09:48:44 Okay.
09:48:45 That's a motion on the floor.
09:48:47 Been moved and seconded.
09:48:48 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:48:51 Opposes same sign.
09:48:52 Thank you.
09:48:52 Item 58.
09:49:04 Mr. Mueller, do you have item 58?
09:49:07 Item 58.
09:49:15 Staff?
09:49:16 All right, come on.
09:49:17 Anyone from the public wish to address council, come

09:49:19 forward.
09:49:20 >>> My name is Walter Crumbley.
09:49:22 I'm the president of Courier City homeowners
09:49:25 association.
09:49:28 First off, I would like to thank City Council for
09:49:31 getting behind this move to have the resident-only
09:49:37 parking thing.
09:49:39 I have been the president for three years.
09:49:40 And I have been working on this issue three years.
09:49:45 And in fact the last nine months, the city parking
09:49:49 division and all those people came together, and we
09:49:52 had a number of meetings.
09:49:54 We have had the centers and people in favor of it and
09:49:59 they heard it all and they wrote this ordinance, and
09:50:01 we are happy with it, and we want you to pass it.
09:50:06 And the only issue that we have point is the $30 fine
09:50:11 may not deter people, so we may come back at some
09:50:14 future time and ask you to raise that, if it doesn't
09:50:18 solve the problem.
09:50:19 But other than that, we are all in favor of it.
09:50:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
09:50:23 Anyone else from the public?

09:50:25 Councilwoman Saul-Sena and councilman Dingfelder.
09:50:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to thank you for your
09:50:30 leadership in this issue, Mr. Crumbly.
09:50:34 It's taken your shepherding this along for three years
09:50:36 and hopefully this will begin to address some of the
09:50:39 crazy parking in your neighborhood.
09:50:41 And I just wanted to say that I visited the new
09:50:45 Publix, and there seems to be people parking properly
09:50:48 which is always sort of encouraging.
09:50:51 >>> Well, they haven't really had the full force of
09:50:54 that yet.
09:50:56 Thank you very much.
09:50:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Walter, I wanted to echo Ms.
09:51:02 Saul-Sena's thanks and congratulations to you, and to
09:51:05 your group.
09:51:07 I think your patience as a neighborhood has been very
09:51:10 commendable, because your neighborhood has been in
09:51:12 transition quite a bit, and you have been there a
09:51:14 number of years.
09:51:18 With Linda.
09:51:18 But you guys have been very patient about the
09:51:20 businesses and the bars and the restaurants, but I

09:51:25 think this will be to the benefit of everybody.
09:51:27 But I agree with you wholeheartedly.
09:51:29 And you need to copy an eye on this for us.
09:51:34 If those young people just take their $30 and pay or
09:51:37 tear it off or whatever, and they are not paying
09:51:39 attention to $30, then I already talked to Irv already
09:51:43 about the possibility of making it towaway because
09:51:47 that's what they do in other sis when it's these types
09:51:50 of situations and when it's infringing on the
09:51:52 homeowners' rights.
09:51:55 So you keep us posted on how that's going J.
09:51:58 >>> You may rest assured if it doesn't work I'll be
09:52:01 back to see you again.
09:52:02 Thank you.
09:52:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
09:52:05 Councilman Miranda.
09:52:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:52:08 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
09:52:09 (Motion carried).
09:52:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item 58.
09:52:13 I move the ordinance for second reading.
09:52:15 An ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida amending

09:52:17 City of Tampa code, chapter 15, section 15-104
09:52:22 residential parking permit only area to provide for
09:52:26 parking residential permit only areas located in the
09:52:29 Courier City and Oscawana neighborhood, providing
09:52:32 repeal for all ordinances in conflict, providing for
09:52:35 severability, providing an effective date.
09:52:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:52:39 Record your vote, please.
09:52:48 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:52:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 59.
09:52:53 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item
09:52:55 59?
09:52:59 Anyone from the public?
09:53:00 Motion to close.
09:53:00 >> So moved.
09:53:02 >> Second to close.
09:53:04 (Motion carried).
09:53:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A substitute ordinance.
09:53:07 Do we have the substitute?
09:53:17 Item 59.
09:53:18 Do we have the substitute ordinance?
09:53:21 >> Move an ordinance for first reading.

09:53:38 >> Wait a minute.
09:53:39 >> Start over.
09:53:42 An ordinance vacating closing continuing abandoning a
09:53:45 certain right-of-way all that portion of Mohawk
09:53:47 Avenue, lying north of east Hillsborough Avenue, west
09:53:49 of north Cherokee Avenue, east of Central Avenue, east
09:53:54 Suwannee Heights, a subdivision in the City of Tampa,
09:53:57 Hillsborough County Florida the same being more fully
09:53:59 described in section 2 hereof providing an effective
09:54:00 date.
09:54:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:54:05 Record your vote.
09:54:08 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:54:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 60.
09:54:20 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item
09:54:23 60?
09:54:23 >> Move to close.
09:54:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I didn't ask the chair to swear
09:54:41 anybody in and I was going to do that should anybody
09:54:43 get up but if you wish to do that now it would be
09:54:45 perfectly fine.
09:54:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone that's going to be speaking to

09:54:49 council, will you stand, please, and raise your right
09:54:52 hand, if you are going to be --
09:54:59 (Oath administered by Clerk).
09:55:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:55:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: While we are on housekeeping finance
09:55:05 we could also have a motion to receive and file all
09:55:07 those documents that have been available for public
09:55:09 inspection.
09:55:10 >> So moved.
09:55:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:55:14 (Motion carried)
09:55:19 Thank you.
09:55:20 Housekeeping.
09:55:20 Always good to have good housekeeping.
09:55:23 Item 60.
09:55:26 Motion to close.
09:55:26 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
09:55:31 >> Second.
09:55:33 (Motion carried).
09:55:34 >> An ordinance for second reading, an ordinance
09:55:37 correcting a scrivener error in ordinance 2008-155
09:55:41 which authorized an ordinance vacating, closing,

09:55:46 discontinuing and abandoning a certain right-of-way
09:55:49 contained within the proposed Cargo Road extension and
09:55:53 air cargo facility development area amend correct a
09:55:58 scrivener error by changing section 2-C in part by
09:56:02 removing the last paragraph relating to termination of
09:56:04 the permanent water easement providing for
09:56:07 severability, providing an effective date.
09:56:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:56:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 60.
09:56:12 Record your vote.
09:56:14 All right, John.
09:56:21 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent
09:56:23 at vote.
09:56:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 61.
09:56:27 Anyone wish to address council on item 61?
09:56:29 >> Move to close.
09:56:31 >> Second.
09:56:31 (Motion carried).
09:56:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:56:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move the following
09:56:39 ordinance for second reading and adoption, an
09:56:41 ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of

09:56:43 512 east Hillsborough Avenue and 5502 north Cherokee
09:56:48 Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
09:56:49 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
09:56:51 district classifications CG commercial general and
09:56:55 RS-50 residential single-family to PD planned
09:56:57 development, restaurant, retail, business/professional
09:57:02 office, providing an effective date.
09:57:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:57:07 Record your vote.
09:57:21 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:57:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 62. Anyone wish to address
09:57:25 council on item 62?
09:57:28 Item 62?
09:57:29 Anyone wish to address council?
09:57:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:57:36 >> Second.
09:57:36 (Motion carried).
09:57:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 62.
09:57:49 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance being presented for
09:57:50 second reading, an ordinance approving a special use
09:57:53 permit S-2 approving a bank with a drive-in window in
09:57:57 a CG commercial general zoning district in the general

09:58:01 vicinity of 3863 South Dale Mabry Highway in the city
09:58:08 of Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in
09:58:11 section 1 hereof approving waivers as set forth herein
09:58:15 providing an effective date.
09:58:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:58:18 Record your vote, please.
09:58:22 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:58:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 63 has been continued to December
09:58:28 18th.
09:58:30 Item 64.
09:58:31 Anyone wish to address council on item 64?
09:58:34 >> Move to close.
09:58:36 >> Second.
09:58:36 (Motion carried).
09:58:37 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented
09:58:44 for second reading, an ordinance approving a special
09:58:46 use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, large
09:58:49 venue and making lawful the sale of beverages
09:58:51 containing alcohol regardless of alcoholic content,
09:58:54 beer, wine and liquor, 4(COP) for consumption on the
09:58:57 premises and in sealed containers for consumption off
09:59:00 the premises in connection with a business

09:59:02 establishment on that certain lot, plot or tract of
09:59:04 land located at 7627 west Courtney Campbell causeway,
09:59:09 Tampa, Florida as more particularly described in
09:59:11 section 2 hereof, approving waivers as set forth
09:59:14 herein, waiving certain restrictions as to distance
09:59:17 based upon certain findings, providing for repeal of
09:59:19 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective
09:59:21 date.
09:59:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 64 has been moved.
09:59:24 Seconded by councilman Charlie Miranda.
09:59:28 Record your vote.
09:59:41 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder
09:59:43 abstaining.
09:59:45 [ Laughter ]
09:59:46 >> Do you want some coffee?
10:00:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to revote that, right?
10:00:03 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:00:06 All opposed, okay.
10:00:07 Revote.
10:00:09 Item 65.
10:00:17 Anyone wishing to address council?
10:00:18 Item 65.

10:00:25 >> Item 65.
10:00:26 >> Move to close.
10:00:27 >> Second.
10:00:27 (Motion carried).
10:00:28 >> Move an ordinance for second reading, an ordinance
10:00:33 approving a special use permit S-2 for alcoholic
10:00:36 beverage sales, large venue, making lawful the sale of
10:00:39 beverages containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight
10:00:42 and not more than 14% by weight and wines regardless
10:00:45 of alcoholic content bore and wine, 2(COP), for
10:00:48 consumption on premises and in sealed containers for
10:00:55 consumption off premises, at or from that certain lot,
10:00:59 plot or tract of land located at 6325 Avian park drive
10:01:06 Tampa, Florida approving waivers as set forth herein
10:01:08 waiving certain restrictions as to distance based upon
10:01:11 certain findings providing for repeal of all
10:01:13 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
10:01:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:01:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
10:01:36 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano being absent
10:01:38 at vote.
10:01:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wishing to address council on

10:01:41 item 66?
10:01:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:01:43 >> Second.
10:01:43 (Motion carried).
10:01:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move the following
10:01:48 ordinance for second reading and adoption.
10:01:50 An ordinance approving a special use permit S-2 for
10:01:53 alcoholic beverage sales, large venue, and making
10:01:55 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol of
10:01:57 more than 1% by weight and not more than 14% by weight
10:02:01 and wines regardless of alcoholic content beer and
10:02:03 wine 2(COP) for consumption on premises and in sealed
10:02:07 containers for consumption off premises at or from
10:02:10 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at
10:02:13 5302 Avion park drive Tampa, Florida as more
10:02:19 particularly described in section 2 hereof approving
10:02:21 waivers as Seth forth R forth herein, waiving certain
10:02:24 restrictions ace to distance based upon certain
10:02:27 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
10:02:29 conflict, providing an effective date.
10:02:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:02:35 Record your vote.

10:02:39 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano being absent
10:02:42 at vote.
10:02:42 >>GWEN MILLER: 67 we have already taken care of.
10:02:49 Item 68.
10:02:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I can't visualize this location, if
10:02:52 the staff person could remind me.
10:02:54 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:02:56 Item 68 is the Carabbas located on Dale Mabry.
10:02:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:03:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is a public hearing.
10:03:02 Anyone wishing to address council?
10:03:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
10:03:08 >> Second.
10:03:08 (Motion carried).
10:03:10 >>GWEN MILLER: I move to adopt the following ordinance
10:03:13 for second reading, an ordinance approving a special
10:03:16 use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, small
10:03:20 venue and making lawful the sale of beverages
10:03:22 regardless of alcoholic content beer, wine and liquor
10:03:26 4(COP-X) for consumption on premises only at or from
10:03:29 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at
10:03:32 3801 west Cass Street, Tampa, Florida, as more

10:03:35 particularly described in section 2 hereof, approving
10:03:37 waivers as set forth herein, waiving certain
10:03:40 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
10:03:43 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
10:03:46 conflict, providing an effective date.
10:03:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:03:50 Record your vote, please.
10:03:53 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano being absent
10:03:59 at vote.
10:04:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 69.
10:04:01 Anyone wishing to address council?
10:04:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
10:04:06 >> Second.
10:04:06 (Motion carried).
10:04:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder, item 69.
10:04:12 Do you have your glasses?
10:04:14 >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:04:17 An ordinance for second reading, an ordinance rezoning
10:04:19 property in the general vicinity of 402 South
10:04:19 Boulevard and 813 and 815 West Horatio Street in the
10:04:19 City of Tampa, Florida, and more particularly
10:04:19 described in section 1, from zoning district

10:04:24 classifications PD, planned development residential
10:04:27 multifamily to PD, planned development congregate
10:04:30 living facility, group care facility, large, providing
10:04:32 an effective date.
10:04:34 >> Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:04:37 Record your vote.
10:04:44 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano being absent
10:04:46 at vote.
10:04:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 70.
10:04:50 Anyone wishing to address council?
10:04:51 Item 70.
10:04:52 >> Move to close.
10:04:53 >> Second.
10:04:54 (Motion carried).
10:04:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: An ordinance presented for second
10:05:00 reading, an ordinance rezoning property in the general
10:05:03 vicinity of 37328 best Columbus drive in the city of
10:05:07 Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in
10:05:08 section 1 from zoning district classifications CI
10:05:12 commercial intensive to PD planned development retail,
10:05:14 restaurant, commercial parking, providing an effective
10:05:16 date.

10:05:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
10:05:20 Record your vote.
10:05:24 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano being absent
10:05:27 at vote.
10:05:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 71.
10:05:29 Anyone wishing to address council?
10:05:31 >> Moved to 1:30.
10:05:35 I hate to interrupt you, sir.
10:05:37 Move to hold this item till 1:30.
10:05:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:05:40 You're right.
10:05:41 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:05:43 Opposes?
10:05:44 Okay.
10:05:44 Continued to 1:30.
10:05:46 Thank you.
10:06:01 Item 72.
10:06:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Just for safety purposes I think
10:06:09 Ms. Saul-Sena might be correct.
10:06:10 Let's continue to open 72 through 79 at this time.
10:06:15 >> Second.
10:06:18 (Motion carried).

10:06:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 72.
10:06:22 >> Julia Kabougeris, city attorney office.
10:06:32 They should be adopted prior to the closing of the
10:06:35 public hearing.
10:06:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wishing to address item 72 or
10:06:41 73?
10:06:47 72 or 73?
10:06:48 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Can I speak on 72?
10:06:52 >> Yes.
10:06:52 You certainly may.
10:07:03 >> Mr. Chairman, in my district, evidently, we are
10:07:10 will go for some streetlights that are going to be
10:07:14 paid by the residents, and the residents are going to
10:07:16 be in those condominiums or apartments that are there.
10:07:20 Now, as you look at this map on Bruce B. Downs, you
10:07:23 will see all of this white space where it says PD.
10:07:27 This is commercial use.
10:07:30 So the residents of this area where the condos are,
10:07:35 are going to be paying for these streetlights, okay?
10:07:38 It not fair.
10:07:39 I am going through the same condition where I live, I
10:07:44 have five streetlights for nine homes, and I'm paying

10:07:47 for 25 lights on feeder roads.
10:07:52 It's not fair.
10:07:53 And I have talked to Mr. Daignault, and Jan
10:07:57 Washington, I believe her name is, and as the process
10:08:01 goes it's very slow.
10:08:06 I don't know whether the people who are going to be
10:08:07 moving into these apartments are notified that they
10:08:09 are going to have to pay for these streetlights.
10:08:11 I think there's some 21 streetlights.
10:08:14 And from what I understand, there was two different
10:08:17 plats, and they sold it, and these people are going to
10:08:20 be burdened with paying for these streetlights, and
10:08:23 they are nowhere near their units, as you can see, to
10:08:27 the right and down to the bottom left hand corner,
10:08:31 down on the bottom here, it's yellow.
10:08:34 This is where the streetlights are going to go.
10:08:36 I think this needs to be revised so that it would be
10:08:39 fair to the residents that live in that area.
10:08:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Joseph, I'm glad you pointed this
10:08:46 out to us.
10:08:47 We don't have a color version so we can't tell on our
10:08:50 version.

10:08:50 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Those are where the streetlights
10:08:53 are going to be to the right.
10:08:57 At Bruce B. Downs Boulevard.
10:08:59 And down to the left hand corner, there are going to
10:09:02 be streetlights in there.
10:09:03 And evidently they are going to have streetlights
10:09:05 within the confines of their residence, and they are
10:09:09 probably going to pay for those streetlights, also.
10:09:11 Because these developers, when they take these plots,
10:09:20 they are going to take it and sell it and get out.
10:09:23 >> You are saying they are currently undeveloped?
10:09:27 >>> Right.
10:09:27 >> So instead of waiting for that area to be developed
10:09:30 or charging that property owner in that PD area, they
10:09:34 are just jumping the gun and just charging the ones
10:09:37 that are already built?
10:09:38 >>> Right.
10:09:38 Well, they are not built yet.
10:09:40 They are going to be constructed.
10:09:43 In this area there's massive construction going on
10:09:45 there.
10:09:45 It's right at County Line Road and Bruce B. Downs.

10:09:49 It is amazing what's going on there.
10:09:51 >> Wouldn't it be great to have Mr. Daignault here so
10:09:54 we could ask him about the equity or fairness of that,
10:09:57 or unfairness of that, and how they can justify it.
10:10:02 >>> Well, it very unfair for five streetlights, I pay
10:10:06 over $800.
10:10:07 My neighbors across the street who use my lights to go
10:10:10 home pay $129.
10:10:13 >> Why?
10:10:18 >> That's the way the plat was set up.
10:10:21 I was told by -- I can't remember his name from
10:10:23 engineering, he says, well, you are in a big plat.
10:10:25 I said what do you mean?
10:10:27 I have nine homes on my street.
10:10:29 Five streetlights.
10:10:31 There's probably 25 acres of swamp that goes to Tampa
10:10:34 Palms Boulevard and Palm Springs Boulevard.
10:10:38 And arbitrating to there, the residents pay $129 for
10:10:43 streetlights.
10:10:43 And they have a lot more than five.
10:10:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, sir, state your name.
10:10:48 >> William shotcross with colonial properties trust.

10:10:52 We are the applicant on this.
10:10:54 We just completed building a spine road, site
10:10:59 development agreement with the City of Tampa which
10:11:01 required us to put the streetlights in, self-imposed
10:11:05 assessment district, that will only benefit our
10:11:08 residential properties.
10:11:09 This will be for rent under a single ownership.
10:11:12 So there will not be any individual fees for any
10:11:15 property.
10:11:16 They want property owners to be renters.
10:11:18 Any fees will be reflected in their rents.
10:11:21 We absorb it into our overhead for that.
10:11:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So on item 72, you are saying they
10:11:26 won't have to pay?
10:11:28 >>> Correct.
10:11:28 They just pay rent.
10:11:29 We pay out of operation fees.
10:11:32 >> They pay it indirectly through their rent.
10:11:35 >> Well, perhaps.
10:11:36 Market controls their rent F.throws a shortfall we
10:11:38 pick it up.
10:11:39 >> And across the street where Mr. Caetano pointed out

10:11:43 where that PD is, is that going to be developed?
10:11:46 And why shouldn't they be paying part of that?
10:11:48 >>> I don't know what across the street means.
10:11:51 Bruce B. Downs is a shopping center called the cypress
10:11:53 that's developing.
10:11:54 But they are not included in this assessment district.
10:11:58 This is just for a road that's wholly within -- that's
10:12:07 the shopping center.
10:12:08 And I don't believe they are burdened by this
10:12:10 assessment.
10:12:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.
10:12:13 And that's his point.
10:12:14 That's Mr. Caetano's point.
10:12:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll just hold this till staff gets
10:12:18 here at 10:30.
10:12:20 Item 72.
10:12:21 Then item 73.
10:12:23 We will just hold that.
10:12:27 Hold that till staff comes in.
10:12:30 Okay.
10:12:31 He's coming shortly.
10:12:32 Item 73.

10:12:33 Anyone wishing to address council on item 73?
10:12:39 We are holding 72.
10:12:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 73 and 72.
10:12:43 Okay, I didn't understand that.
10:12:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We can pass 73, as I understand,
10:12:47 right?
10:12:48 >> Right.
10:12:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Caetano, did you have an issue
10:12:52 with you 73?
10:12:53 Did you want that to travel along?
10:12:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to read the ordinance before
10:13:04 we close.
10:13:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe that's a resolution.
10:13:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move the resolution 73.
10:13:14 >> Second.
10:13:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Moved and --
10:13:17 Moved and seconded.
10:13:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close item 73.
10:13:20 >> Second.
10:13:21 (Motion carried)
10:13:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 74.
10:13:28 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.

10:13:29 Just a reminder.
10:13:31 Item number 74 was the code amendment related to
10:13:35 crematoriums and which districts they are allowed and
10:13:37 which district they are accessory to.
10:13:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wishing to
10:13:41 address council on item 74?
10:13:43 Council Miranda?
10:13:44 >> Move to close.
10:13:45 >> Okay.
10:13:46 Do I hear a second?
10:13:47 >> Second.
10:13:48 (Motion carried)
10:13:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance for second
10:13:52 reading, an ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida
10:13:55 making comprehensive revisions to City of Tampa code
10:13:57 of ordinances chapter 27 zoning amending section 27-77
10:14:01 official schedule of the district regulations,
10:14:03 amending section 27-140, reserved, amending section
10:14:06 27-143, accessory uses, repealing all ordinances or
10:14:11 parts of ordinances in conflict therewith, providing
10:14:16 for severability, providing an effective date.
10:14:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?

10:14:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:14:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote, please.
10:14:24 Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:14:26 For item 74.
10:14:31 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:14:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 75.
10:14:37 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:14:38 Just as a reminder, this regulation was clarifying the
10:14:42 submittal requirements, the filing requirements for
10:14:45 semiannual reports allowing electronic filing as well,
10:14:47 and then modifying the date when they are due to
10:14:50 correct it to be under the month as opposed to the
10:14:52 30th day of the month.
10:14:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much, Ms. Coyle, you
10:14:56 are very efficient.
10:14:58 Anyone from the public wish to address council?
10:15:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
10:15:05 >> Second.
10:15:05 (Motion carried).
10:15:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 75.
10:15:08 Move the following ordinance to adopt for second
10:15:10 reading.

10:15:10 An ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida making
10:15:12 comprehensive revisions to City of Tampa code of
10:15:17 ordinances chapter 27 zoning amending section 27-524
10:15:21 records, semiannual reports, violation of "R"
10:15:23 classification zoning requirements, repealing all
10:15:26 ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict
10:15:28 therewith, providing for severability, providing an
10:15:30 effective date.
10:15:31 >> Second.
10:15:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:15:38 Record your vote on 75.
10:15:41 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:15:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 76.
10:15:47 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:15:48 This was the broader regulation change addressing the
10:15:52 changes to where the front doors are located for
10:15:54 design purposes, and also clarifying that the
10:15:58 enclosure for containers for solid waste outdoor, a
10:16:02 minimum of 4 feet by 4 feet, 4 feet wide, 4 feet deep.
10:16:09 Thank you.
10:16:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
10:16:12 council?

10:16:13 Okay.
10:16:16 >>> My name is Walter Crumbley with Courier City
10:16:19 Oscawana group.
10:16:21 Again this is one of the changes that we have been
10:16:23 pushing for, for a number of years, and see that we
10:16:26 finally got there.
10:16:28 Getting the primary entrance onto dedicated streets.
10:16:35 We encourage you to pass this.
10:16:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
10:16:42 Motion to close.
10:16:42 >> So moved.
10:16:43 >> Second.
10:16:43 (Motion carried).
10:16:44 >>GWEN MILLER: An ordinance presented for second
10:16:48 reading of, an ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida
10:16:50 making comprehensive revisions to the City of Tampa
10:16:53 code of ordinances chapter 27, zoning, amending
10:16:56 section 27-77 official schedule of district
10:17:00 regulations, amending section 27-132, solid waste
10:17:04 storage area, amending section 27-137, single-family,
10:17:08 semi detached design standards, amending section
10:17:12 27-137.3, single-family attached design standards

10:17:17 amending section 27-137.4, multifamily townhouse-style
10:17:23 design standards, repealing all ordinances or parts of
10:17:28 ordinances in conflict therewith, providing for
10:17:32 severability, providing an effective date.
10:17:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:17:36 Record your vote.
10:17:42 Item 76.
10:17:44 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:17:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 77.
10:17:49 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:17:50 As a reminder, these are the changes to the vendor
10:17:55 regulations basically clarifying that the property
10:17:57 does not have to be developed, but the bathrooms are
10:18:00 not required as they are in the code of ordinance.
10:18:05 And addressing some other concerns that were noted.
10:18:07 As well council did make the motion to set a vendor
10:18:10 workshop to discuss the entire ordinance, just as a
10:18:13 reminder that's listening March 26th, 2009 at
10:18:17 9 a.m., we are placing that in the Tampa newsletter
10:18:21 basically from now until March to make sure that
10:18:23 everyone knows and I will send out reminder e-mails.
10:18:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is a public hearing.

10:18:32 Come forward at this time, state your name and address
10:18:34 for the record.
10:18:36 >>> Walter Johnson, 465 Longfellow Avenue, Tampa,
10:18:39 Florida.
10:18:40 And I'm president of T.H.A.N.
10:18:47 Had a few points on the vendor regulation.
10:18:49 One is the ordinance that is were adopted just last
10:18:51 year.
10:18:52 T.H.A.N. strongly recommends and requests that the
10:18:55 current ordinance remain in place for at least one,
10:18:58 possibly two years.
10:19:01 T.H.A.N.'s official position is because the vendor
10:19:05 regulations were revised in 2007, and revised in 2008
10:19:09 to address implementation, T.H.A.N. recommends that we
10:19:12 a year to allow the regulations to take effect, and to
10:19:17 be implemented to see what if any problems there are
10:19:22 before making any changes.
10:19:27 We believe that with a new code enforcement instant
10:19:31 citation program, it's just another good reason why we
10:19:36 should have at least another year, possibly two, to
10:19:39 see if the current ordinance will be effective.
10:19:45 The proposed amendments to this code are not

10:19:47 neighborhood friendly.
10:19:50 There is not anything in the recommendations or in the
10:19:54 revisions that will benefit neighborhoods.
10:19:56 All of the proposed revisions are beneficial to the
10:19:58 vendors, particularly in the temporary vendor
10:20:01 category.
10:20:02 We ask that you make no changes to the current
10:20:05 ordinance, and that you ask code enforcement and TPD
10:20:09 to enforce the provisions of the ordinance.
10:20:12 I mention TPD because of the hour arrangement.
10:20:17 Enforcement normally is not available at 9:00 at night
10:20:21 but TPD is.
10:20:23 Thank you.
10:20:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
10:20:28 >> Todd Pressman, 28870 U.S. highway 19 north
10:20:34 Clearwater, Florida.
10:20:35 I'm here with Sharon honeywell of galaxy fireworks and
10:20:41 at the last hearing there were a lot of people in
10:20:43 attendance.
10:20:44 I have great respect for the prior speaker at the
10:20:47 county level to come up with an ordinance and we
10:20:50 believe council has taken a great step in scheduling

10:20:52 the March meeting.
10:20:54 As Catherine indicated so that all the parties and the
10:20:57 stakeholders can come together from the ordinances
10:21:00 from many years ago to last year's ordinance to this
10:21:03 year's ordinance can all be comprehensively put
10:21:05 together with input from everyone.
10:21:07 And we appreciate that.
10:21:08 And the primary reason I am here is to place emphasis
10:21:11 to you that it's important to us and the industry and
10:21:14 also we appreciate your consideration, and Catherine's
10:21:18 good work and the problems that she inherited.
10:21:22 But there are problems with this ordinance.
10:21:24 We want to be on record with you today, and in regard
10:21:29 that this is a business and represents a business
10:21:31 industry, the people who are here in attendance with
10:21:34 you, communicated to you that there are problems and
10:21:38 we do expect problems even with this ordinance which
10:21:40 has been described as a fix ordinance.
10:21:42 We support the ordinance passing, but it is a fix
10:21:45 ordinance, and we say that by unfortunately holding
10:21:47 our nose when we believe at the moment it's the best
10:21:50 that can be done.

10:21:51 There are issues like overzealous ownership
10:21:54 authorization that's required.
10:21:55 I won't get into the details.
10:21:57 Issues which we hope to hold an open mind with regard
10:22:02 to hours which we think is important and kind of a
10:22:05 unique and similar act taking a hit in the ordinance,
10:22:07 particularly for seasonal vendors during these busy
10:22:09 times, there are restrictions from what would be
10:22:12 typical operating hours for malls and other holiday
10:22:15 vendors N.that respect we again hold our nose and ask
10:22:18 you to support it with the cog sedans from the staff
10:22:21 or from yourself that a lot of work still needs to be
10:22:23 done and we appreciate the opportunity to have input
10:22:25 with it.
10:22:26 Thank you.
10:22:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Pressman.
10:22:30 Next speaker.
10:22:33 >> My name is Sue Lyon.
10:22:39 This ordinance is one of those ones we have all worked
10:22:41 on chapter, and when Woford and Todd Pressman come up
10:22:46 and say they don't like this ordinance, I think it's a
10:22:48 good thing for you all to back off on it.

10:22:51 It's not working, it doesn't pleas either side.
10:22:54 And usually if you don't pleas either side it's a
10:22:57 compromise. But this one is definitely neither side
10:22:59 likes it.
10:23:01 I know Cathy is overburdened with her work.
10:23:04 And we are not complaining about her at all.
10:23:05 But this at least needs to be put off for awhile.
10:23:08 And I'm here today, I keep telling you all I'm
10:23:11 retired.
10:23:11 But Margaret Vizzi fell and broke her knee cap so I'm
10:23:15 here for Margaret Vizzi because she said this is so
10:23:18 important to her, that she needs somebody here to
10:23:22 represent her.
10:23:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Give Ms. Vizzi our best record, hope
10:23:28 she recovers real fast.
10:23:29 >> I think it will be awhile because she's in a full
10:23:33 leg brace from her torso to her ankle.
10:23:38 I was going to bring her up here in a wheelchair.
10:23:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Tell her she's in our prayers.
10:23:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
10:23:47 >>MARY MULHERN: I think that I kind of got the same
10:23:52 impression as Mrs. Lyons, that since this isn't

10:23:56 popular with either side, and also the fact that there
10:23:59 is this March 26th schedule to have a workshop,
10:24:03 that would give us time to do something.
10:24:05 And I'm not sure that we need to pass this today.
10:24:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's a temporary fix.
10:24:11 If we don't then we have to go back to the old
10:24:13 ordinance, from what I understand.
10:24:15 That throws everything out of whack.
10:24:17 I'm sorry, I shouldn't have interrupted you.
10:24:19 I'm sorry.
10:24:22 >> Maybe Cathy could illuminate on that.
10:24:27 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:24:28 We did go through the changes in 2007.
10:24:30 And they were effective beginning in 2008.
10:24:33 The main issue with this, and quite frankly where we
10:24:36 started with the changes, were not on temporary
10:24:39 vendors with, all due respect to Mr. Johnson, it was
10:24:41 on annual vendors.
10:24:43 And annual vendors are very restricted in the city.
10:24:46 There's only a certain number of streets they are
10:24:47 allowed to operate.
10:24:48 The changes that were done to the temporary vendors

10:24:51 were the second thought in this ordinance, really.
10:24:53 The annual vendors are the ones we were trying to
10:24:56 address.
10:24:56 Fact that the property has to be developed, there has
10:24:59 to be bathrooms on-site, and there's many onerous
10:25:03 requirements for annual vendors on those selected
10:25:05 streets and we are turning away people on a daily
10:25:08 basis.
10:25:09 And we felt as staff especially having to deal with
10:25:13 these people on a regular basis that we are basically
10:25:15 turning away business in the city, and these are
10:25:18 really -- they are small business people that are
10:25:20 really just trying to operate on weekend, as I
10:25:22 mentioned the barbecue vendors in front of the Exxon
10:25:25 station, that they can't just go there.
10:25:27 And it's affecting some of the older parts of the
10:25:29 city, East Tampa, West Tampa, where these types of
10:25:31 vendors occur.
10:25:33 There are hours of operation that are restricted.
10:25:35 They have to close down by sunset.
10:25:37 So it's not that they be operating till two or three
10:25:41 in the morning.

10:25:42 Temporary vendors which Mr. Pressman recognized, there
10:25:47 was a request when I came to workshop earlier on this
10:25:49 regulation that it be changed to 11:00 at night and
10:25:53 council said no, and cap it at 9:00 and those were the
10:25:57 hours of operation that he was mentioning that we'll
10:26:00 discuss in March.
10:26:01 By not adopting this today it does shut the door on
10:26:04 virtually everyone that comes in the door.
10:26:06 We have a lot of pending applications right now that
10:26:08 are waiting for approval, waiting for this to be
10:26:10 adopted.
10:26:11 It's your policy decision at this point.
10:26:13 It really is.
10:26:14 You will start seeing more and more on appeal.
10:26:16 You have had a couple already that have come on
10:26:18 appeal, and you have granted them.
10:26:20 It really is a policy decision at council's discretion
10:26:23 at this time.
10:26:24 We are just trying to administer the ordinance and
10:26:27 it's very difficult in its current state.
10:26:32 >>MARY MULHERN: What if we pass the annual part of the
10:26:35 amendment?

10:26:37 And not the temporary?
10:26:38 Is it the temporary thing that the neighborhoods have
10:26:41 a problem with, the temporary vendors, or the annual?
10:26:44 >>> From what I understand, from what I have heard
10:26:49 anyway, they just want it to be held for a year or two
10:26:52 to see how it works out, I'm assuming.
10:27:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, this may not be a
10:27:03 perfect ordinance, but I think it's a step in the
10:27:05 right direction.
10:27:06 If we don't do anything today and go back on the
10:27:08 original ordinance, there will be more chaos for the
10:27:11 neighborhoods throughout the city, there will be very
10:27:15 little enforcement that can be done, and a sunset
10:27:21 provision that at 9:00 I believe is what the ordinance
10:27:23 said.
10:27:24 It used to be you go home, drive home at 1:00 in the
10:27:27 morning, they are everywhere.
10:27:28 So it has helped.
10:27:29 And I can attest to that.
10:27:32 In many parts of the city, again, then ordinance is
10:27:35 not perfect.
10:27:37 We are going to workshop it in March and maybe come up

10:27:39 with new ideas, where the areas that need
10:27:43 clarification, where the neighborhoods and those
10:27:45 business interests, to try to work out a solution.
10:27:49 But in the meantime, I'm going to vote for the
10:27:52 ordinance, because I believe it does do some stop
10:27:57 gapping of what has been a rampant deregulation, and
10:28:01 something that will be not beneficial to the
10:28:03 neighborhoods that we are all trying to protect.
10:28:05 So there's where I'm at, Mr. Chairman.
10:28:07 And I think in March, we'll certainly have that
10:28:10 opportunity, and like was stated by Mr. Johnson,
10:28:15 things take time.
10:28:16 You may pass something today you won't realize what
10:28:18 happened, you have a gauge on it for about six months
10:28:23 to a year and I think that's what we are trying to do.
10:28:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is definitely a tough issue.
10:28:28 But I believe we have a lot of vacant commercial
10:28:31 property, and we have flea markets where people can
10:28:35 grow and makes our streets look very third world to
10:28:38 have people camping out on a street corner so I am
10:28:41 going to support the neighborhood and vote against
10:28:43 this.

10:28:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is an ordinance that has been
10:28:50 worked on, again, and right now, if we don't pass the
10:28:56 ordinance, it will be tough.
10:29:01 I agree with councilman Miranda, it hurts the
10:29:03 neighborhoods in the long run, whether you realize it
10:29:05 or not, if we don't pass it.
10:29:09 So I'm going to support the ordinance.
10:29:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:29:14 I don't know, Ms. Saul-Sena.
10:29:17 You know, you frequent New York City, and they have
10:29:19 street vendors all over New York City.
10:29:21 And I don't know how third world that is.
10:29:28 I think that we don't get store owners coming in and
10:29:34 complaining about the competition.
10:29:36 I think in many cases it just adds to the charm of our
10:29:39 community.
10:29:40 And where there are specific neighborhood problems,
10:29:42 I'm sure we will hear about them specifically.
10:29:45 I don't think we should throw the baby out with the
10:29:47 bath water.
10:29:50 Cathy brought this to us a couple months ago,
10:29:54 basically with the explanation that our current

10:29:56 ordinance is not working.
10:29:57 And that we have to tweak it up to make it functional.
10:30:02 So I am going to support it.
10:30:04 And with due apologies to T.H.A.N. and all their hard
10:30:08 work.
10:30:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close the public hearing.
10:30:13 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question.
10:30:15 I don't want to close the public hearing.
10:30:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, go ahead.
10:30:19 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm concerned because it seemed like
10:30:21 when this came -- and this is the second hearing, on
10:30:24 the first hearing, one of the people who was here was
10:30:26 a young man that wanted to do barbecue and -- and he
10:30:34 still can't do it.
10:30:36 So I'm not really sure.
10:30:41 I just haven't looked at this as long as the rest of
10:30:44 you have.
10:30:45 So I am going to support this, but I am going to look
10:30:48 into it and try to work with the neighborhoods between
10:30:54 now and March so we can figure out if there are some
10:30:56 changes that would help.
10:31:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close.

10:31:03 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:31:06 Okay.
10:31:08 Councilman Caetano, would you read item 77?
10:31:12 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: 77.
10:31:21 Second public hearing on an ordinance of the city of
10:31:29 Tampa, Florida making comprehensive revisions chapter
10:31:32 27, zoning, City of Tampa code of ordinances providing
10:31:34 for notice pertaining to vendor ordinance.
10:31:40 Okay, the bottom.
10:31:42 An ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida making
10:31:44 comprehensive revisions total City of Tampa code of
10:31:46 ordinances, chapter 27 zoning, amending section 27-77,
10:31:51 official schedule of district regulations, amending
10:31:54 section 27-177, historic district established,
10:31:59 amending section 27-272, regulations governing
10:32:02 individual special uses, amending 27-545, definitions,
10:32:08 repealing all ordinances or parts of ordinances in
10:32:11 conflict therewith, providing for severability,
10:32:13 providing an effective date.
10:32:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll second that for adoption upon
10:32:18 second reading.
10:32:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Been moved and seconded.

10:32:21 Record your vote, please.
10:32:22 Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
10:32:31 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena voting no.
10:32:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll take up 78 and that will
10:32:49 complete most of our public hearings and go back to
10:32:51 72.
10:32:51 So 78.
10:32:52 Anyone wishing to address council on 78?
10:32:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
10:32:59 >> Second.
10:32:59 (Motion carried).
10:33:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move the following
10:33:05 ordinance for second reading, an ordinance amending
10:33:07 the Tampa comprehensive plan capital improvements
10:33:09 element by updating the schedule of projects for
10:33:14 fiscal year 2009 through fiscal year 2014 providing
10:33:17 for repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing
10:33:20 for severability, providing an effective date.
10:33:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:33:27 Record your vote, please.
10:33:31 For item 78.
10:33:32 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.

10:33:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Need a motion on item 79 to continue
10:33:36 to April 2nd, '09.
10:33:41 >> So moved.
10:33:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:33:43 (Motion carried).
10:33:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to go back to item 72 and then
10:33:51 staff reports.
10:33:52 I think Mr. Daignault, we needed you to come forward
10:33:55 to address item 72, sir.
10:34:07 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I'll be try to -- glad to try to
10:34:11 answer your questions.
10:34:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Caetano raised the issue about
10:34:14 assessments on 72 up in New Tampa.
10:34:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: (off microphone) this is all
10:34:26 commercial property.
10:34:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The bottom line Joseph was bringing
10:34:39 up was perhaps the unfairness or inequity of charging
10:34:43 a project that's about to be built right now, which is
10:34:45 the multifamily projects on the left side there, but
10:34:49 not assessing the remainder of the property owners in
10:34:54 that PD area, which is apparently going to be a
10:34:57 commercial project in the future.

10:35:01 And I think that sums it up.
10:35:02 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Can I ask, this gentleman is the
10:35:06 developer?
10:35:07 Can I ask him a question?
10:35:09 This road that's coming off of Bruce B. Downs and
10:35:11 going over to County Line Road, are there going to be
10:35:15 entrances into the commercial division there?
10:35:18 >>> Yes.
10:35:19 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: There is.
10:35:20 That furthermore strengthens my idea that these
10:35:24 residents should not be paying for this because
10:35:26 technically they are lighting up the commercial
10:35:28 district.
10:35:29 Okay.
10:35:29 It's not fair to these residents.
10:35:31 And you are also going to have streetlights in this
10:35:34 complex back here where the residents are going to be
10:35:37 living, correct?
10:35:40 They are not going to have streetlights?
10:35:42 >>> Typically, we put lighting on building but we are
10:35:45 very sensitive for safety purposes to have adequate
10:35:47 lighting on properties.

10:35:49 >> The lights are going to be attached to the building
10:35:51 and that will be included in their rent.
10:35:54 >> It's on the house.
10:35:55 >> I cannot support this.
10:35:56 I think the residents --
10:35:59 I don't know a whole lot about streetlight but I
10:36:02 believe the streetlights are only on our side of the
10:36:05 roadway.
10:36:05 I don't know if there's any future obligation if
10:36:08 streetlights are required on both sides, and future
10:36:10 obligation for commercial people.
10:36:12 >>> Well, there's 21 streetlights.
10:36:15 And those 21 streetlights are going to benefit the
10:36:17 commercial division.
10:36:18 So perhaps you should revisit and make some
10:36:22 assessments to the commercial property.
10:36:25 >>> I don't know that we are empowered to do that.
10:36:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:36:32 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to ask a question
10:36:35 perhaps of the developer, or maybe Julie can tell us.
10:36:38 On this map that councilman Caetano gave us, is this
10:36:43 entire road the road that you are building?

10:36:47 >>> We have completed a roadway from county line
10:36:49 through the project to Bruce B. Downs.
10:36:51 >> So then is this Bruce B. Downs here?
10:36:55 >>> On the bottom.
10:36:57 >>> Yes, BBD.
10:37:00 >> And you are building this entire road?
10:37:03 >>> That is an obligation that we had to the city.
10:37:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Now my question is for Mr. Daignault.
10:37:11 I don't think we put streetlights just on one way
10:37:16 traffic.
10:37:17 Don't they go on both sides of the road?
10:37:19 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Well, they need to light the road.
10:37:22 Sometimes they go on one side.
10:37:23 Sometimes they go on both sides.
10:37:25 But they need to adequately light the road.
10:37:28 >> Undivided two-lane roads.
10:37:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You have to speak into the mike.
10:37:34 I guess the question we are trying to find out, Mr.
10:37:37 Daignault, to answer Mr. Caetano's question, and that
10:37:40 is, should the residents be paying an assessment that
10:37:45 is commercial?
10:37:46 I think that's what he's trying to get to.

10:37:48 >>> Julie Kabougeris.
10:37:57 They have to go in.
10:37:59 He can either apply for a special assessment, or pay
10:38:06 lump sum for the streetlights that are going in.
10:38:08 In this case, the developer chose to request a special
10:38:12 assessment.
10:38:13 But either way, the lights have to go in.
10:38:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It circles back, there are other
10:38:23 property owners along there that will be assessed.
10:38:26 Will they be assessed out when it's built out?
10:38:29 Why aren't they being assessed now as property owners
10:38:31 to defray some of the cost that eventually is going to
10:38:34 be going to these tenants?
10:38:38 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: This has to do with decisions by a
10:38:40 developer.
10:38:40 When you have a groan field and it has not been
10:38:43 developed on, and you choose to develop and you are
10:38:46 the first to choose to develop, and your property, or
10:38:51 your condos, apartments are located here, and you need
10:38:54 to build an access road, you cover -- you expend money
10:38:59 to cover the cost of that access road to the property.
10:39:04 If there happens to be other property adjacent to the

10:39:07 road that will be developed in the future, that
10:39:10 property gets the benefit of the road.
10:39:11 They do.
10:39:12 I mean, that's just the way it works.
10:39:14 So in this case, we are talking about specifically the
10:39:16 streetlights.
10:39:17 But there are certain requirements besides
10:39:20 streetlight, the road, the signage, the striping.
10:39:23 There's other sidewalks, landscaping, whatever, other
10:39:27 things that are required, when you develop.
10:39:30 And the developer sits down and makes the conscious
10:39:33 decision, I am going to experience these expenses, and
10:39:37 I want to sell it, and I have to take care of it or I
10:39:41 want to rent and I have to cover those expenses in my
10:39:44 rent.
10:39:44 But it is the requirements, again, of the person that
10:39:47 does that development to pay those costs.
10:39:50 So when the next development comes in, whether it's
10:39:56 one year, ten years, or whenever, they will get the
10:39:58 benefit of that road and the fact that the lights are
10:40:01 there.
10:40:02 And the streetlights, I mean the stop signs,

10:40:05 et cetera.
10:40:09 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Daignault, excuse me.
10:40:11 This application says the lot owners are going to pay
10:40:14 for these streetlights.
10:40:15 Who is classified as the lot owners?
10:40:17 Maybe this gentleman can tell us.
10:40:18 >>> We as the developer and the lot owner, we have fee
10:40:24 simple.
10:40:26 You approved the plat earlier today with just three
10:40:29 lots on it.
10:40:30 So it's on either side of the street on a third lot
10:40:37 because you approved a fire station purchased from us.
10:40:40 But there's no further --
10:40:44 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: You are paying but you are going
10:40:46 to assess the lot owners.
10:40:47 >> We are the lot owner.
10:40:49 >> You are the lot owner?
10:40:50 >>> Yes, until we sell the parcel to the city.
10:40:53 >> So then you are going to be paying these up until
10:40:55 you sell those lots?
10:40:58 >> Well, we never intended to sell any property.
10:41:01 The city came to us for the fire station.

10:41:04 Other than that, we are a for-rent property.
10:41:07 We don't sub dived it so we are the owner and if we
10:41:10 sell the asset at some time, the next owner --
10:41:17 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Pass it onto the homeowners.
10:41:19 >>> There are no homeowners.
10:41:20 >> To the tenants.
10:41:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If there are renting, they can do
10:41:27 that.
10:41:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me put in the context perhaps.
10:41:30 And I agree with you philosophically, Joseph, I think
10:41:34 if you were talking about single-family homes or
10:41:35 everyone condos where we might have some future
10:41:37 residents and they go hey, why am I getting hit with
10:41:40 this and they weren't part of this conversation?
10:41:42 In this case it appears to me it's $2,000 per lot or
10:41:45 $2100 per lot.
10:41:48 That's what it looks like to me.
10:41:53 And when I look at the backup it says $21 per lot.
10:41:56 So they only have three lots.
10:41:58 And talking about $6,000.
10:42:00 How many units are you building on those three lots?
10:42:03 >>> 486.

10:42:05 >> So effectively you are talking about $10 or
10:42:08 something per unit.
10:42:09 Or thereabouts.
10:42:12 Probably per year.
10:42:12 >>> But they are not pass-through charges.
10:42:15 We have a lot of common charges.
10:42:16 >> I don't want to argue about it.
10:42:19 I'm just saying it's not very much money.
10:42:21 10 or $15 per year per rental unit, about a dollar a
10:42:26 month per rental unit.
10:42:29 So in light of that, I agree with you philosophically,
10:42:32 Joseph, I think in the single-family context this is a
10:42:36 real issue we should address.
10:42:37 But I think in this context of the multifamily when it
10:42:40 comes down to a dollar per unit, I don't think --
10:42:43 >> And what may help you is before the -- if anything
10:42:49 happens there will be disclosures just like you would
10:42:51 have HOA fees.
10:42:53 Before you buy in you have a choice.
10:42:55 But we are self-imposing that on ourselves.
10:42:57 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: So the commercial lots are not
10:42:59 going to be assessed at any time, correct?

10:43:01 >>> That's my understanding.
10:43:02 >> I don't think it's fair.
10:43:05 >>> You know, there was a deal struck with the city --
10:43:10 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: All right.
10:43:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can I get a motion to pass or deny,
10:43:14 one way or the other?
10:43:16 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, move to deny.
10:43:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I need a motion.
10:43:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Caetano, I completely respect
10:43:32 your feelings but this seems to be a private agreement
10:43:35 between the property owner and the apartment owners,
10:43:37 and the owner of the apartments will absorb the cost.
10:43:42 And so I move this.
10:43:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:43:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:43:51 All in favor say Aye.
10:43:53 Opposes?
10:43:54 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano voting no.
10:43:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close item 72.
10:44:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:44:01 (Motion carried).
10:44:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We now move to staff reports.

10:44:13 Item 80.
10:44:13 >>> Jan McLean, city attorney's office, with a
10:44:19 quarterly update on the proposed landfill commonly
10:44:22 known as aggregate in Pasco County.
10:44:25 Since they have been in front of you previously the
10:44:29 applicant aggregate has submitted responses as
10:44:34 requested by the Florida department of environmental
10:44:35 protection, and which completed their application back
10:44:37 in mid August.
10:44:39 During that time now, the department has 90 days to
10:44:43 review all the responses, and then take action.
10:44:46 And we are in that time frame right now.
10:44:50 In addition, and concurrently, there were county
10:44:54 actions going on that have been sitting off to the
10:44:57 side with a special use permit.
10:44:58 I learned yesterday that the applicant has submitted a
10:45:01 significant amount of information to the counties to
10:45:04 begin its review, and that's what they are doing.
10:45:08 They are sorting through it.
10:45:09 And the director of development for Pasco County says
10:45:13 it will be at least 30 days before she's gone through
10:45:15 it and has any comments.

10:45:17 So we kind of stand at this point in time waiting for
10:45:21 the department to make a decision on the applications
10:45:23 for construction, operation of landfill.
10:45:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:45:29 Did you provide us with this copy of the New Tampa
10:45:31 neighborhood news with an article on the Cypress
10:45:35 Creek?
10:45:41 >>> It's great.
10:45:44 No, I didn't.
10:45:46 [ Laughter ]
10:45:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Because the City of Tampa is
10:45:49 dependent on the Hillsborough River for our water
10:45:52 supply, and us what the idea of putting a dump at the
10:45:54 head waters of the river doesn't seem like the wisest
10:45:57 thing, I appreciate you continuing to give us updates.
10:46:01 And I want to clarify, are we able to weigh in as the
10:46:05 Hillsborough River recipients?
10:46:10 >>> We could potentially, yes.
10:46:13 >> What do we need to do?
10:46:16 Does council need to ask you to see, Brad Baird in our
10:46:22 water department to see if this will have a negative
10:46:25 impact?

10:46:26 I'm very concerned about putting a dump at the head
10:46:29 waters of our source of drinking water.
10:46:31 I think that's not a smart thing for the city to sit
10:46:35 idly by and watch happen.
10:46:37 >> Both ourselves and Tampa Bay water which had a
10:46:40 Wellfield that are closer in proximity to the proposed
10:46:43 activity have been monitoring it.
10:46:45 So we actually need to wait and see what the
10:46:48 department is going to do.
10:46:49 I understand, well, having participated in the evening
10:46:52 workshop, a month or two months ago over in Dade city,
10:46:56 there is a significant amount of interest from
10:46:59 property owners that are adjacent, let alone those of
10:47:04 us that have these types of interests.
10:47:06 So the city could make a decision as to whether it's
10:47:08 going to intervene in any kind of challenge, if there
10:47:12 is any kind of challenge.
10:47:13 But we could take an action if we decided.
10:47:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Legally, if council is interested
10:47:21 in this issue, how would we best directed you to come
10:47:24 back to us at the appropriate time?
10:47:26 You are going to know -- it my not be in the next

10:47:30 three months, it might be in the next six weeks.
10:47:33 I mean, I don't know.
10:47:34 But you will know because you are monitoring.
10:47:36 This but the question is, would it be -- what I would
10:47:40 like to do is make a motion asking you to come back to
10:47:43 council with information from your monitoring about
10:47:48 what our choices are about intervention.
10:47:54 I think our council is very interested in this issue
10:47:56 and wants to encourage the administration to weigh in.
10:47:59 But we would also like to be updated, and even if the
10:48:04 administration maybe doesn't want to intervene,
10:48:06 council at least could, I think, bring this to the
10:48:11 citizens attention and encourage their activity.
10:48:15 What I'm saying is, you are the point person for this.
10:48:19 We need you to come back to us with timely
10:48:22 information.
10:48:26 >>> What I can do is let Mr. Fletcher know.
10:48:30 [ Laughter ]
10:48:34 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I'm repeating anything I
10:48:36 apologize because I was in the elevator for part of
10:48:38 that discussion.
10:48:39 But we had weighed in and written a letter, I think

10:48:43 the mayor signed a letter raising concerns about this
10:48:46 previously.
10:48:46 We have been very actively involved in attending
10:48:48 meetings and keeping on top of it.
10:48:51 So we have created a posture, I would say, of concern
10:48:55 already, in this process.
10:48:59 Under the charter, it would be -- our office really
10:49:02 would determine to initiate any litigation in this
10:49:05 matter.
10:49:05 There would be, depending on what happens, a handful
10:49:08 of different avenues for that.
10:49:11 Typically these time frames are so quick that we
10:49:14 probably wouldn't -- we may or may not have time to
10:49:18 come talk to you about that.
10:49:20 But in terms of the charter, in your appropriate role,
10:49:26 if you had a motion or a resolution raising issues
10:49:28 with the landfill, that would probably be the
10:49:31 appropriate route to go, and depending on what happens
10:49:34 with it, and the conditions on the permit, and various
10:49:37 other issues that would come up, because we have a
10:49:44 ways to go before we get to a decision point on this,
10:49:49 then we would make the decision at that point whether

10:49:51 or not we have standing and whether or not we have an
10:49:52 opportunity to intervene, and FHP we did, it would be
10:49:55 appropriate.
10:49:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just to perhaps tweak up your
10:50:02 motion a little.
10:50:04 Mrs. Saul-Sena, the DEP has to come down with a
10:50:07 decision.
10:50:07 So there's a chance they might reject the application
10:50:12 or something like that, which is consistent with what
10:50:15 we hope.
10:50:16 But the flip side is they might approve the
10:50:18 application.
10:50:18 If they approve it, those when we would need to move
10:50:21 and move quickly.
10:50:22 What's the window, 15 days to join in?
10:50:26 >>> Jan: I believe we have 20 days.
10:50:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Under the APA procedures act.
10:50:36 I think especially since we have the holiday and they
10:50:38 are only giving us quarterly reports, let me tweak the
10:50:42 motion and say come back to us at the next meeting
10:50:44 after DEP makes a decision, if that falls between now
10:50:48 and the next quarterly report.

10:50:51 And then that way, you know, we know what's happening
10:50:53 and we could take or not take whatever action is
10:50:56 appropriate.
10:51:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Actually, I thought Mr. Fletcher's
10:51:03 suggestion was excellent, that council officially go
10:51:04 on record expressing concern that this proposed dump,
10:51:14 to there's a better word for it --
10:51:17 >> Landfill.
10:51:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Landfill could propose a hazard to
10:51:21 the Hillsborough River which is our source of drinking
10:51:23 water.
10:51:23 And we are concerned about that.
10:51:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And that's your motion?
10:51:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My motion is we express that
10:51:28 officially, and that we --
10:51:30 Incorporate what -- did the clerk get that?
10:51:34 Incorporate it into the motion.
10:51:35 Okay?
10:51:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you want that as a formal
10:51:39 resolution on the next agenda?
10:51:41 >> A resolution?
10:51:42 Yes.

10:51:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:51:45 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a feeling you already did this,
10:51:47 Linda, because we have been talking about this for a
10:51:49 long time.
10:51:49 So I bet if we looked it up, we already have a
10:51:53 resolution.
10:51:54 I think we need something more than just a resolution.
10:52:00 We didn't?
10:52:01 >>> Council hasn't taken any official action.
10:52:04 The mayor sent a letter of concern.
10:52:07 >>MARY MULHERN: And I have a question for you, Jan.
10:52:10 Where are we with the D.E.P.?
10:52:14 >>> The D.E.P. has until December 12th to make a
10:52:17 determination about whether they are going to grant or
10:52:20 deny the application.
10:52:23 >>MARY MULHERN: Did you say something about Pasco
10:52:25 already has comments?
10:52:26 >>> Pasco, there's separate actions at the county
10:52:29 level.
10:52:30 There is a number of permits and special use permits
10:52:33 that had they have to apply for.
10:52:35 And that has not even begun.

10:52:37 So the county actions are just beginning to initiate.
10:52:43 >> Will the public have access as soon as a decision
10:52:48 from D.E.P. Haas happens, that we could see it?
10:52:51 >>> To the D.E.P.'s action?
10:52:53 Yes.
10:52:54 >> So maybe --
10:52:58 That's part of the motion, too, though.
10:53:00 As soon as it happens.
10:53:01 That's part of the motion.
10:53:06 >>> Just so we are clear, this December 12th date, it
10:53:09 could be extended.
10:53:11 They are in a negotiation phase.
10:53:12 It's very likely that there won't be anything that
10:53:14 happens between now and December 12th.
10:53:16 So while that's the current date, I don't want you to
10:53:19 be thinking we are going to know on the 13th what
10:53:21 happened.
10:53:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the issue as the motion says
10:53:29 whenever they make the decision, come backs, next
10:53:32 year, so I think it's an appropriate motion.
10:53:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Then in the meantime do a
10:53:39 resolution.

10:53:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Made by Mrs. Saul-Sena, seconded by
10:53:45 councilman Dingfelder.
10:53:48 All in favor?
10:53:49 Opposes?
10:53:50 Okay.
10:53:51 >> Thank you.
10:53:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 81, Mr. Daignault.
10:53:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I pulled item 9 from the agenda.
10:54:00 Could we address that quickly now?
10:54:02 >> Yes, if you want to.
10:54:03 >>MARY MULHERN: To get it out of the way.
10:54:07 We just voted on something about this chiller last
10:54:10 week.
10:54:11 And it just keeps cropping up.
10:54:13 So what I'm trying to understand here is, what are we
10:54:17 doing now compared to what we voted on last week, I
10:54:20 think it was?
10:54:24 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator public works and
10:54:26 utility services.
10:54:27 I'm sorry that these keep coming up repetitively,
10:54:30 council.
10:54:30 But when we have these large contracts, Weaver

10:54:33 opportunities to save money, save taxes, if we
10:54:37 purchase materials.
10:54:39 But what we have to do is award the contract to the
10:54:41 contractor first, and then we deduct the purchase of
10:54:45 large materials.
10:54:46 So what this is doing is saving the city about $42,000
10:54:50 in tax savings by the city buying the large materials
10:54:54 instead of the contractor.
10:54:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
10:54:56 I get that.
10:54:57 But I just wanted to bring this up again.
10:54:59 And I know I brought it up before, but yesterday, in
10:55:05 talking to TECO representatives another topic, they
10:55:12 brought up that they have a program working with
10:55:16 commercial people to have energy-efficient kind of
10:55:21 state of the art chiller plant.
10:55:24 And I kind of had the impression that we started out
10:55:27 doing that.
10:55:28 And now we have gotten to the point where we are
10:55:31 saving money on this, but we are also spending a lot
10:55:34 of money, where we have given the museum that land, or
10:55:38 leased it to them for nothing, and we are spending a

10:55:40 lot of money on the city's riverwalk, and now we are
10:55:44 putting this chiller pretty much next to the river.
10:55:52 And I just wondered if there is anyway that we could
10:55:57 look at, talk to TECO and see what we could do, or the
10:56:00 museum could talk to them and see what they could do
10:56:03 about revisiting this and getting an energy-efficient
10:56:07 one.
10:56:09 We talk about -- we are expecting asking TECO to do
10:56:13 all this renewable energy stuff, and they are making,
10:56:17 you know, some attempts, a lot of attempts.
10:56:20 Meanwhile, when we are building things as a city, we
10:56:23 are not taking advantage of, I think, necessarily the
10:56:27 energy efficiencies and the ways that they can make
10:56:32 our buildings more efficient.
10:56:42 >>> Dave Vaughan, contract administration.
10:56:44 It is correct that early in this process, we in fact
10:56:48 selected TECO in conjunction with an engineering firm
10:56:53 to provide this plant for us.
10:56:56 This was many years ago.
10:56:58 As that plan developed it became apparent that it was
10:57:01 not cost effective, it was not going to be even first
10:57:05 cost and how we paid it back was not going to be cost

10:57:08 effective compared to what we were doing.
10:57:10 The second point is the chillers that we are putting
10:57:13 in are state of the art, they are 134-A refrigerant
10:57:18 which is no CFCs, and we have explored that avenue.
10:57:23 On a couple of occasions.
10:57:25 And it was not financially feasible for us to do that.
10:57:30 >>MARY MULHERN: And did you factor into that the
10:57:33 energy savings you had?
10:57:40 >>> Yes.
10:57:41 Because the chillers that we are putting in are going
10:57:44 to be as efficient or more efficient than the chillers
10:57:46 that we talked with TECO about.
10:57:49 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry, as efficient as what?
10:57:52 >>> As the chillers that were under discussion with
10:57:55 TECO when we were dealing with them.
10:57:57 We also investigate, just to give you an idea of how
10:58:00 extensive we looked into this, we looked into the
10:58:03 feasibility of tying into the county's chiller plant
10:58:06 over in the ice warehouse and running the pipe down
10:58:11 there and taking advantage of equipment and again
10:58:14 financially it didn't work.
10:58:18 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: If I could just finish that.

10:58:20 Regardless, it would still take land, some area, to
10:58:24 place that chiller, whether it was ours or there is.
10:58:27 That's a piece of information that you need to
10:58:29 consider, also.
10:58:32 And TECO, this goes way back, at the very beginning,
10:58:37 had bought a company that did these things.
10:58:39 They have since then sold that company, so they were
10:58:44 not, at least, for a long period of time, involved in
10:58:47 doing those, and now quite frankly if you are telling
10:58:51 me they are involved in it, that's new information
10:58:53 because they got out of that business for a period of
10:58:55 time.
10:58:56 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, it was new information for me.
10:58:59 I just heard that yesterday and that's partly why I
10:59:01 brought this up.
10:59:02 Those were my concerns.
10:59:04 You made me feel a lot better about the energy
10:59:07 efficiency.
10:59:10 I'm still concerned we are putting in the middle of
10:59:13 the riverwalk instead of on top of the building in the
10:59:15 garage or somewhere, where it's not --
10:59:19 >>> Again that makes it sound like we are hanging over

10:59:21 the water or we are right up adjacent to the
10:59:23 riverwalk.
10:59:24 We are actually a full 30 feet or more away from the
10:59:27 riverwalk.
10:59:27 We are not immediately adjacent to the river, or the
10:59:30 riverwalk.
10:59:30 >>MARY MULHERN: And how close are you to the museum?
10:59:35 >>> At least twice that.
10:59:38 >> Twice as far?
10:59:41 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: 60 feet or so.
10:59:46 >>DAVE VAUGHAN: Again it is somewhat a function of the
10:59:49 geography that's there.
10:59:50 We were taking advantage of changes in elevation and
10:59:53 sort of that embankment that's there to sort of nestle
10:59:57 this thing in there and to minimize its impact as much
11:00:00 as possible.
11:00:02 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
11:00:04 Thanks a lot.
11:00:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm really pleased to hear that
11:00:06 huff given great thought to the long-term energy
11:00:09 costs.
11:00:10 I think that, well, 50s another public investment,

11:00:16 it's not just the investment, although a big one in
11:00:20 this case, but it's the long-term caring costs that
11:00:24 are going to be the determiner about whether it was a
11:00:28 wise investment and I'm pleased to hear, Mr. Vaughan,
11:00:32 that you are really considering that as we go forward
11:00:34 with our municipal buildings and how to be most
11:00:37 efficient.
11:00:43 >>> Would you like to request a motion on that number
11:00:45 9?
11:00:45 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to move item number 9.
11:00:48 Motion and second.
11:00:49 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
11:00:51 Opposed, Nay.
11:00:52 (Motion carried).
11:00:52 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Thank you very much.
11:00:55 Back to number 81.
11:00:56 This an update on the reclaimed system.
11:01:00 I want to kind of go through in detail for you some of
11:01:02 the pieces and parts that we are working on right now.
11:01:04 And then if you will allow me, I would like to talk a
11:01:06 little bit about our current water conservation needs
11:01:09 and our watering situation.

11:01:12 First of all, the Hillsborough County Aviation
11:01:13 Authority agreement, in August you approved a 20-year
11:01:18 users agreement.
11:01:19 Right now, we are beginning the design to run the
11:01:23 pipe, the reclaimed pipe out to TIA.
11:01:25 The construction should begin by the summer.
11:01:28 And it should be completed by late fall of 2009.
11:01:33 They actually need it in early -- January 15, 2010 so
11:01:40 we expect to be completed in that time frame.
11:01:43 With regard to reclaimed water to the Curtis Hixon
11:01:47 park and to Kiley, we are finishing that work,
11:01:49 actually the pipe under the river, we are doing that
11:01:53 work right now.
11:01:54 We expect that that whole project will be done by May,
11:01:58 when it's needed for, again, for the Curtis Hixon park
11:02:02 and for Kiley.
11:02:03 With regard to the reclaimed master plan, we are
11:02:08 working with them through various issues right now.
11:02:12 We expect to receive a draft, probably in January, and
11:02:17 then we will have the final report in the March-April
11:02:20 '09 time frame.
11:02:22 Very interested in getting that and it's going to be

11:02:24 timely, when compared to other studies that are being
11:02:27 done by southwest Florida water management, et.
11:02:31 Currently our reclaimed water connections, as you
11:02:33 know, we had 5321 folks enrolled, at this moment we
11:02:38 have 3,079 connected, and that's an increase of about
11:02:42 80 customers over the last six months.
11:02:46 We tend to have 10 to 15 additional customers each
11:02:51 month.
11:02:53 We continue with our outreach, media contacts,
11:02:56 homeowner associations, Spotlight, PSA segments on
11:03:00 CTTV, and sending out mail to potential customers and
11:03:06 big users.
11:03:07 So we continue to push the reclaimed piece.
11:03:10 If it's okay I would like to talk about water
11:03:12 conservation issues.
11:03:14 As you know, we get our water from the Hillsborough
11:03:16 River.
11:03:17 Currently, as a result of abnormally low, low
11:03:22 rainfall, we have experienced the lowest October and
11:03:24 November river flows in history.
11:03:28 The Tampa Bay water folks who have a 15 billion-gallon
11:03:34 reservoir have only been able to capture 6.5 billion

11:03:38 gallons in that reservoir.
11:03:40 And because, again of usage and low rainfall, they are
11:03:46 currently down to 5 billion gallons because they have
11:03:48 already had to start drawing it and only 4 billion of
11:03:51 that 5 billion can be used.
11:03:55 The weather predictions are for again below normal
11:03:58 rainfall through until April.
11:04:01 Our river flows are at about 30 million gallons a day,
11:04:06 and our requirement is 70 million gallons a day out of
11:04:10 the arrive.
11:04:10 So again, these are critical times.
11:04:13 This is the beginning of the dry season.
11:04:15 It has to go until the rains start in the spring,
11:04:17 which is usually May-June time frame.
11:04:21 We would like to send a message to the public, again
11:04:24 anyone in the City of Tampa, please conserve water in
11:04:27 any way possible, considering watering every two weeks
11:04:30 instead of once a week, and do that voluntarily, if
11:04:33 you would, at this time.
11:04:35 Anyone who can hook up to reclaim, we ask them to
11:04:38 please go ahead and hook up to reclaimed.
11:04:41 We are issuing citations on first observation, again

11:04:44 with know warnings.
11:04:47 We are augmenting the water management district's
11:04:50 message to the public by sending out a tip of the
11:04:52 week, both in our web site and in our communication
11:04:55 letters.
11:04:57 Frequent press releases which have led to some more
11:05:00 press coverage.
11:05:02 We have additional signage of public areas.
11:05:05 And we are amending some existing variances, and we
11:05:08 have deputized some of our conservation staff to be
11:05:12 out there helping us again find folks who are watering
11:05:15 when they shouldn't be.
11:05:17 I have a couple of photos I would like to show you.
11:05:20 I think photos speak a thousand words, to just show
11:05:23 you the conditions recently on the Hillsborough River.
11:05:32 And you can see where the bank usually is.
11:05:36 It's about that slope there.
11:05:37 And you can see how high that gazebo is above water
11:05:42 level.
11:05:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Daignault, where is that on the
11:05:45 river?
11:05:46 >>> Cabbage --

11:05:50 >> It's below the dam?
11:05:53 >>> Oh, I'm sorry, this is upstream from the dam.
11:05:59 Lettuce Lake.
11:06:01 There you go.
11:06:03 So, anyway, just not a good situation going into the
11:06:11 dry season.
11:06:11 And so again we asked the public to conserve in any
11:06:14 way they possibly can.
11:06:17 One more commercial.
11:06:20 The 40th Street ribbon cutting will be 15 December at
11:06:25 10:00 on the south side of the bridge, and again we
11:06:28 hope you all can attend because you all have been so
11:06:31 involved and so supportive, and we appreciate that.
11:06:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to thank you, Mr. Daignault,
11:06:36 for coming in and making us aware and the whole
11:06:40 citizens of the city, and those that live outside the
11:06:42 city that use city water, really the dire need for
11:06:45 conservation.
11:06:46 I have been speaking about it just about every
11:06:48 Thursday, and to me one of the issues is that on
11:06:52 watering days, sometimes use 10 to 12 million gallons
11:06:57 more, everyone if it rains like it did this week.

11:07:00 And I think that's going to be a situation that the
11:07:05 City of Tampa, and Tampa Bay water, the whole
11:07:07 southwest water management district, cannot continue
11:07:10 to do, we just don't have it for the reasons you
11:07:13 explain about the reservoir and so forth and so on.
11:07:17 Although I am a great believer in reclaimed, the way
11:07:20 it's set up now with STAR, South Tampa area reclaimed,
11:07:26 means only to a small area or smaller to the city and
11:07:28 so forth.
11:07:29 I mentioned it last week, that I believe that both
11:07:33 projects instead of giving little names and all them
11:07:37 should be Tampa reclaimed system, TRS, so wee we can
11:07:42 include all of the others and enhance maybe those
11:07:44 individuals who want to come into the city and feel
11:07:46 part of the reclaimed system that the city has
11:07:48 available.
11:07:49 So I'm a proponent of everything you said.
11:07:52 In fact I got my water bill to turn in when the next
11:07:55 meeting starts.
11:07:56 And last year, I used ten units of water.
11:08:01 This year I used nine units of water.
11:08:03 So I am trying to keep up and trying to be a leader in

11:08:06 conservation.
11:08:06 You have to show that we are doing it so that they can
11:08:09 do it.
11:08:10 I may ask you to show me your water bill.
11:08:13 All right?
11:08:15 What I'm saying is we have to take this very
11:08:17 seriously.
11:08:18 This is a serious issue.
11:08:20 I remember 2000 and 2001 when we had a lot more
11:08:25 emergencies, and I'm afraid we are getting there much
11:08:28 sooner this year, or this course of action during this
11:08:30 time in history than it was back in 2000 and 2001 and
11:08:35 I don't want to see that happen again.
11:08:36 So I think through conservation, if we save those 10
11:08:39 million gallons, and if we use 10% less of all water,
11:08:44 I think we can make it through this naturally
11:08:48 occurring event, without too much harm.
11:08:50 Thank you, Madam Chair.
11:08:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Miranda, wise words.
11:08:57 Mr. Daignault.
11:08:59 Steve, just as a ballpark, what percentage of our
11:09:03 potable water is used for lawns and landscaping at

11:09:08 this time of year?
11:09:09 Do you have any feel on that?
11:09:10 >>> I think it's about 60%.
11:09:12 >> 60%.
11:09:13 So just to get that message out to the community.
11:09:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not going to debate.
11:09:26 This I think it says 40 to 60%.
11:09:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Depending on the season and
11:09:31 everything else.
11:09:32 I just want to get this message out to the community,
11:09:34 that we bring this water in from all different
11:09:36 sources.
11:09:37 We treat it to tremendous levels for purity, so it's
11:09:42 ready for us to drink and bathe in and cook with,
11:09:46 which are of course life issues, but then about half
11:09:51 of it, in this entire community, goes out into the
11:09:56 yards and the bushes, and the grass.
11:09:59 And we just have to remember that.
11:10:02 And I know everybody wants their yards, and those all
11:10:05 fine and good, and it's important to have a nice green
11:10:08 community.
11:10:08 But at the same time when we get into times like this,

11:10:11 you know, we just have to think about it.
11:10:14 Every time that sprinkler goes on.
11:10:15 And I'll tell you. What my neighbors, okay, I get so
11:10:18 frustrated.
11:10:19 It was pouring down rain the other day and I was
11:10:21 walking my dogs, and sure enough I had two or three
11:10:24 neighbors whose sprinkler system just by coincidence
11:10:27 happened to be running during that rainstorm.
11:10:29 And I was so frustrated, you know, by that, and they
11:10:34 were sound asleep, you know, and didn't even realize
11:10:36 it.
11:10:37 But you have to check your gauges and make sure that
11:10:39 you have the appropriate gauges, to know when it's
11:10:42 raining and it can turn off and that sort of thing.
11:10:45 That's my little lecture.
11:10:48 The question I asked Steve -- and I had a constituent
11:10:51 bring this up to me just yesterday.
11:10:53 This is sort of a combination of stormwater and
11:10:56 potable water issue.
11:10:57 But what I would be curious about is, is there
11:11:00 anywhere in the country, in the world, where they take
11:11:03 ab stormwater system like ours, where we have millions

11:11:07 of gallons of stormwater come gushing out very
11:11:10 quickly, and then we try and flush it into the river
11:11:13 and into the bay as fast as we can, to get it off of
11:11:16 our streets.
11:11:16 But is there anyplace in the country or in the world
11:11:19 where they capture it, not talking about roof tops and
11:11:24 cisterns on a small scale, talking about on a big
11:11:26 municipal scale where they capture it, store it, and
11:11:29 then it's available for a gray water system like our
11:11:33 storm system?
11:11:35 And I was specifically thinking about in the plant
11:11:37 Ohio area.
11:11:38 We have a problem to figure out how to get all that
11:11:40 water from the plant high area over to the bay as
11:11:43 quickly as possible.
11:11:44 Maybe if there's a way that we could capture it, put
11:11:47 it up like there's a potable tank there now, we could
11:11:51 put it up in one or two tanks for gray water, then
11:11:55 filter it, and then plug it into our star system?
11:11:59 And let people use it for their yards.
11:12:03 I'm just hitting you with this off the cuff and I
11:12:06 don't expect you to be knowledgeable and give us an

11:12:09 answer on that, but I will make a quick motion.
11:12:13 I apologize, council.
11:12:14 To just ask somebody on your staff, whichever staff is
11:12:19 appropriate to look at that, as a possibility both in
11:12:21 plant high or anywhere in the city, see if it being
11:12:25 done anywhere around the country or the world, and
11:12:27 start looking at the feasibility of that, in 90 days
11:12:31 come back with us and give us an idea of that.
11:12:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll second that for discussion.
11:12:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda.
11:12:39 >> I'm sorry, you had the floor?
11:12:42 >>MARY MULHERN: No, go ahead.
11:12:44 >> Just for the record that has been discussed between
11:12:45 Mr. Walters and Mr. Brad Baird and others including
11:12:50 myself.
11:12:50 And I believe the numbers that I remember, a million
11:12:54 and a half gallons a day or something to that effect
11:12:56 on wastewater.
11:13:00 And the problem is the transportation or movement of
11:13:04 that water to where it's got to go, the costs ever
11:13:07 just so high that we have to look not only at that but
11:13:12 other alternatives that may be less feasible as far as

11:13:15 money costs.
11:13:16 And --
11:13:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's what I'm saying, if we can
11:13:20 keep in the those neighborhoods where it's being used.
11:13:23 Clearly if it has to come all the way over to Hookers
11:13:25 Point and come back it doesn't make a lot of sense but
11:13:28 if we can keep it locally, treat it locally and then
11:13:31 Republican it back into our existing star system, it
11:13:33 might be another opportunity to do that.
11:13:36 >> I agree with you, in theory I don't know what the
11:13:40 practicalities are.
11:13:42 To have the reclaimed you have to treat it once or
11:13:44 twice.
11:13:44 I don't know if that's feasible or not.
11:13:46 But I agree with you in theory very much so.
11:13:48 I want to thank the council for passing -- some time
11:13:52 back that little rate increase of water.
11:13:54 Because now this City of Tampa was losing a month and
11:13:57 a half supply of drinkable potable water every year
11:14:01 because of the leaks that we had in the system.
11:14:05 We are now replacing pipes which means an awful lot of
11:14:08 savings to the city long-term.

11:14:10 I can also tell you that an individual like me and Mr.
11:14:12 Dingfelder and others on the council, that go on and
11:14:16 are very conservative on water, why should I pay a
11:14:18 pass-through when I am not using any more water?
11:14:21 And I don't mind paying it.
11:14:23 But I think we have to revisit that and say whoever is
11:14:26 using that amount of water, you pay for it.
11:14:29 And I believe the water bill that goes out should have
11:14:33 a bold thing in red saying please conserve, and tell
11:14:36 us the facts.
11:14:37 The facts are we don't have any water if it continues
11:14:40 the way it is.
11:14:40 And I have asked this to happen already.
11:14:44 It hasn't happened yet.
11:14:45 But if it can be done on a computerized system, put it
11:14:50 right over the thing.
11:14:51 Maybe something happen.
11:14:52 And I know you will.
11:14:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think there's a motion on the floor,
11:14:56 is that right?
11:14:58 >> Right.
11:14:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor of the motion signify by

11:15:00 saying Aye.
11:15:01 Opposes?
11:15:01 Okay.
11:15:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I have to thank Mr. Dingfelder and Mr.
11:15:07 Miranda, and especially Chip Thomas, Ohio don't see
11:15:10 here, who are the people who inspired me, want to turn
11:15:15 off my sprinkler.
11:15:16 And I have to make sure.
11:15:17 I think the reason most of us don't have those
11:15:21 technological things that sense when it's raining, I
11:15:24 mean, we have some ancient sprinkler system.
11:15:27 So I just turned it off, because, you know, a lot of
11:15:32 people probably haven't even changed it to one day.
11:15:35 So a lot of this really is public education.
11:15:38 And if people were more aware of that as opposed to --
11:15:43 there's no way you can enforce finding everyone that's
11:15:46 doing that, because this happens on every block.
11:15:49 And I think all of us see it.
11:15:51 So I am getting a brown lawn like John has.
11:15:54 I have to fight with my husband to make sure that he
11:15:57 doesn't turn the sprinklers back on, because I turned
11:16:00 it off.

11:16:00 But there's all kinds of simple things that you can
11:16:03 do.
11:16:06 In the shower, I hate torn go there, but someone told
11:16:10 me they put a bucket in their shower.
11:16:13 Do you do this?
11:16:14 They put a bucket in the shower, because you use so
11:16:20 much water warming up the shower before you get in.
11:16:25 It fills like a 5-gallon bucket for me.
11:16:28 Then you can use that for watering.
11:16:30 Another thing a lot of stuff, Chip Thomas sent me this
11:16:34 e-mail a long time ago about things you could do, and
11:16:37 I started when I wash dishes, I save my soapy water
11:16:41 and water my flowers with it.
11:16:44 I don't put it on vegetables because the phosphates
11:16:47 and the soap are really good for your flowers.
11:16:49 But there's all kinds of simple things.
11:16:50 When you think about the fact that people are using
11:16:53 40% for watering, you know, it's just really changing
11:16:58 those habits.
11:16:58 And I don't know if you have -- do we have on the
11:17:03 water department web site, do you have like all these
11:17:07 tips?

11:17:08 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: We have lots of them, and then we
11:17:11 have a tip of the week being featured right now.
11:17:13 >> Do people send them in and you put them up there?
11:17:16 >> We know quite a few of them.
11:17:19 Sometimes people listen and sometimes they don't.
11:17:21 It depends on how the water situation is.
11:17:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Another thing that I think would be a
11:17:25 good idea if you are not already doing it is do a
11:17:30 whole feature on the city TV.
11:17:34 Are we doing that, on water conservation?
11:17:36 >>> Yes, ma'am.
11:17:37 >> I have some questions.
11:17:38 As far as the airport, that's fantastic that's
11:17:43 starting, you are doing that.
11:17:45 And I'm wondering, is that going to be -- is that
11:17:52 infrastructure going to allow to you add for the
11:17:54 Westshore area?
11:17:55 >>> Yes, we are oversizing it.
11:17:57 >> And where the malls are doing it.
11:18:00 >> The malls are west of the airport, the service area
11:18:07 goes out there, and there's a golf course and some
11:18:10 other residences out thereby that will eventually get

11:18:13 up.
11:18:13 >> That's great.
11:18:14 And I am not going to belabor this.
11:18:17 Joseph, you are going to talk about this.
11:18:18 But I heard from some people in Tampa Palms that they
11:18:22 are trucking in reclaimed water, something like --
11:18:27 >> For the reserve?
11:18:28 >> Right.
11:18:29 >> The city is selling them reclaimed water.
11:18:31 >> So it is the city that they are buying it from?
11:18:33 >> Yes.
11:18:34 Yes.
11:18:34 >> So I just wanted an update.
11:18:41 >> People want to operate fountains.
11:18:43 It not a lot at the moment.
11:18:44 So we said if you use reclaimed water you could
11:18:47 operate.
11:18:48 >> They also have a lot of grass out there. So I'm
11:18:50 wondering, do we have any plans for putting a
11:18:56 treatment plant out there?
11:18:59 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Those what our master plan is going
11:19:00 to tell us how we will build out our reclaimed system.

11:19:03 >> Then one other thing I want to say just on TV, is
11:19:11 if people started looking at their lawn, vegetable
11:19:20 gardens, you save a lot of water farming as opposed to
11:19:23 keeping grass going, and doing organic farming.
11:19:26 So I'm pushing that every chance I get.
11:19:29 But it's really something anybody can do in their yard
11:19:31 and save money on groceries.
11:19:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
11:19:37 Mr. Caetano?
11:19:39 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I recently took a tour with Mr.
11:19:42 Daignault and Brad to the water treatment plant.
11:19:44 It's quite a facility.
11:19:45 I was really amazed what they do there.
11:19:47 I understand we are even doing testing for other
11:19:50 cities, because they bring in their water and they
11:19:53 come and pick it up and get their results.
11:19:56 Now, on County Line Road, where we just bought that
11:19:59 land for the new fire station at the corner of Bruce
11:20:01 B. Downs Boulevard, I talked to you before about this,
11:20:04 about reclaimed water out there, talking to Pasco
11:20:06 County.
11:20:07 Now, Pasco County must run their reclaimed water up

11:20:11 County Line Road, unless it's come down through North
11:20:18 Port.
11:20:19 I don't know. But it would be very feasible to hook
11:20:21 up some reclaimed water for those developments out
11:20:23 there, Grand Hampton, and this big commercial
11:20:26 subdivision those going in.
11:20:28 Could we find out where that water is coming from?
11:20:32 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Yes, sir, we can.
11:20:33 Just so you know, in the past when we were looking at
11:20:37 a regional reclaimed system that included a pipeline
11:20:40 up to Pasco, because they were interested in buying
11:20:42 some of our reclaimed water, so I don't know that they
11:20:45 have extra.
11:20:46 But we can certainly ask that question to see if it
11:20:49 might be available.
11:20:49 We have to size and see what type of cost there would
11:20:54 be for to us put in a distribution system in there.
11:20:58 But we can certainly ask them if they might have extra
11:21:01 reclaimed that would be for sale.
11:21:03 >> Right across the street from this development on
11:21:07 County Line Road, 50 yards across.
11:21:09 Another thing there, was some talk about running a

11:21:11 pipe into the northern part of my district for
11:21:14 reclaimed water.
11:21:15 You said that's in the master plan?
11:21:17 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: At one time there was what was
11:21:19 called the regional reclaim, which included that
11:21:21 pipeline.
11:21:24 Lots of things have changed since that plan was being
11:21:28 worked.
11:21:29 But now we have our master plan.
11:21:31 And we are looking at how we can fully utilize all of
11:21:33 our reclaimed in the city limits, and how we would
11:21:37 build it out, what would be most economical.
11:21:39 So again when we have that master plan done, we will
11:21:42 be glad to share that with everyone and see how they
11:21:46 recommend we would unfold.
11:21:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 82.
11:21:59 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: While I am here, number 31 was
11:22:02 another one you wanted to look at.
11:22:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 31, yes.
11:22:06 Thank you.
11:22:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, would it help to move
11:22:09 this along?

11:22:10 Ms. Brickhouse was kind enough to come over and she
11:22:14 and I chatted for five or ten minutes and I'm
11:22:16 comfortable with moving 31 along.
11:22:19 There's a 90-day out provision and she's looking at
11:22:23 the possibilities of, you know, the various options.
11:22:27 So if there's a better option, she'll exercise it and
11:22:30 we could have a contract in 90 days so I'll move 31.
11:22:34 >> Second.
11:22:35 >> Moved and seconded by Councilman Miranda.
11:22:39 (Motion carried)
11:22:43 Item 82.
11:22:45 Then we'll come back to the other items as well.
11:22:49 Councilman Dingfelder.
11:22:52 >>> Irvin Lee, director of public works.
11:22:55 I previously period before you to talk about sidewalks
11:22:59 on the first time, we talked about San Rafael, and
11:23:04 there was a miscommunication, and we actually were
11:23:07 requested -- requested to look at San Miguel.
11:23:11 First, I emailed to you all a copy.
11:23:14 This is the final report for the Plant High School
11:23:17 pedestrian road safety audit, which includes a portion
11:23:21 of San Miguel as part of one of the perimeter roads

11:23:26 that was included in their analysis.
11:23:29 But that only captures a portion.
11:23:33 The portion which actually is right adjacent to the
11:23:36 Plant High School campus.
11:23:39 As a matter of fact, if I may, the area, this is San
11:23:49 Miguel, here.
11:23:53 That's the area that was included in the pedestrian
11:23:55 safety audit.
11:23:57 The area that Councilwoman Saul-Sena had asked us to
11:24:01 look at is basically from here, to the east.
11:24:08 The reason I wanted to share with you pictorially what
11:24:12 the area looks like, and this is MacDill here to
11:24:20 the east.
11:24:20 If you will notice, this gives you a good indication
11:24:23 of some of the challenges for constructability for
11:24:26 sidewalks in this area.
11:24:29 Beautiful tree canopy there.
11:24:31 But those green trees are significant impediments to
11:24:34 constructing sidewalks in those areas.
11:24:41 I'm not saying that it is not doable.
11:24:44 It is just going to take, you know, block by block
11:24:47 working with the residents, and looking at this,

11:24:50 because again if it was easy it would have been done
11:24:55 already, but it is not.
11:24:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to thank you, Mr. Lee, for
11:24:59 providing this information.
11:25:02 And as you indicated, it really is going to take
11:25:05 mobilizing the neighbors to really work with their
11:25:08 neighbors to say this is important.
11:25:09 But one of the issues you raised, which is a
11:25:12 challenge, which are the grand trees, which are part
11:25:15 of what grace the neighborhood and make it lovely, I
11:25:17 believe there's a new sidewalk material that's been
11:25:21 created that isn't the typical material.
11:25:24 I think it's rubberized.
11:25:26 And could we use that?
11:25:28 >>>:
11:25:29 >>> We are actually testing a plot of that up in the
11:25:31 New Tampa area.
11:25:34 There are some possibilities.
11:25:35 Another -- there are actually three things.
11:25:39 There are the grand trees.
11:25:40 There's drainage issues.
11:25:42 Significant drainage issues.

11:25:43 And then there are some elevation changes here that
11:25:50 would lead to some ADA, Americans with Disabilities
11:25:53 Act disability issues, not insurmountable, but there
11:25:58 are issues that are going to have to be worked.
11:26:00 Because obviously where you have a slope that is
11:26:03 greater than what would be accessible under ADA, we
11:26:08 have to figure out some way to extend it out, and that
11:26:13 has on the challenges, because again the limited
11:26:17 right-of-way is also -- and that's probably the
11:26:20 greatest of the issues.
11:26:22 There's just not a lot of right-of-way in these
11:26:25 particular areas.
11:26:26 >> Is it there isn't a right-of-way or people assumed
11:26:30 the right-of-way was their yards?
11:26:33 I'll work with you on that.
11:26:35 Because the request has come from the neighborhood.
11:26:37 So the solution needs to come from the neighborhood,
11:26:39 too, in terms of talking with people who don't want to
11:26:42 give up their flowers.
11:26:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
11:26:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, we didn't start talking about
11:26:52 this because of San Miguel and that issue.

11:26:55 We started talking about it because of Dale Mabry and
11:26:57 the tragedies over at Dale Mabry.
11:26:58 So I haven't had a chance to look at the report yet.
11:27:02 I think it just came out in the last day or two.
11:27:05 I know you forwarded it to us.
11:27:07 Are there any bottom line conclusions on Dale Mabry,
11:27:09 any opportunities for any suggestions within the
11:27:13 report for improvements, or mitigation, safety,
11:27:17 et cetera?
11:27:21 >> The number one issue in the report is education of
11:27:26 both parents and students on the campus.
11:27:28 And it's basically having the administration increase
11:27:37 the awareness level, and educating the pedestrians,
11:27:41 the students, both ingress and egress to the dangers,
11:27:44 the challenges that exist.
11:27:49 That's our number one recommendation.
11:27:51 There are a host of other -- I won't call them minor,
11:27:55 but medium to low issues, that they would enhance the
11:28:02 safety.
11:28:02 That's the number one.
11:28:03 >> Did they calculate the speed of the traffic along
11:28:06 that stretch?

11:28:07 >> I think I provided that information before.
11:28:09 It is -- it's within four miles of the speed limit.
11:28:15 So that was not determined to be a factor.
11:28:23 >> The speed limit is what through there?
11:28:25 >> Speed limit through there is 40.
11:28:29 I stand corrected.
11:28:37 The average speed limit -- and if you recall my
11:28:42 explanation, the 85th percentile and 50th
11:28:48 percentile, the average speed is 38 miles per hour,
11:28:51 two below the speed limit.
11:28:52 >> And what about the 85th percentile?
11:28:55 >> 85th percentile is 42 which is two over.
11:29:02 >> Just observationally, everybody really hammers down
11:29:09 right in that section.
11:29:14 >>> One of the things pointed out in the report,
11:29:20 during the times when the largest number of students
11:29:24 are there in the afternoon, in the p.m. dismissal,
11:29:28 there's a police officer there who is controlling the
11:29:30 intersection.
11:29:30 >> Is there any reason we couldn't ask the state
11:29:33 D.O.T. to reduce the speed limit during certain times?
11:29:38 >>> It's something we can ask.

11:29:43 I believe the reluctance on their part would be the
11:29:47 fact that we set a precedence, that that was not a
11:29:51 factor in this situation, so they would rather focus
11:29:55 on the things that actually were contributing and use
11:30:00 that.
11:30:05 >> So if council made a motion to ask you to ask them,
11:30:09 could you do that?
11:30:11 >> Yes, I could.
11:30:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll make that motion then, that we
11:30:15 at least ask the D.O.T. to consider reducing the speed
11:30:19 limit during --
11:30:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:30:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: -- certain time limits when we know
11:30:27 students are going to be coming and going, and with
11:30:30 the typical flashing lights and speed reduction
11:30:34 things.
11:30:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Signs and all that.
11:30:38 Councilwoman Mulhern.
11:30:40 >>MARY MULHERN: I think someone already seconded that
11:30:42 but that's a great idea, and I spent a lot of time on
11:30:45 going back and forth to plant in a car, but I have
11:30:50 always spent a lot of time driving around the city,

11:30:52 and it's not just Dale Mabry, it's our entire city and
11:30:57 county that are the most dangerous for pedestrians.
11:31:00 And I think -- the problem is the high speeds that are
11:31:07 allowed on roads.
11:31:08 And I know FDOT tells you, well, doesn't make any
11:31:11 difference, our transportation people, people drive at
11:31:16 the speed that they can go.
11:31:17 But that brings up the fact that the reason they are
11:31:20 able to do that -- I'll give you a great example.
11:31:23 I was going to the children's board from South Tampa.
11:31:27 I got off of Bayshore at Platt, and I drove north on
11:31:30 Florida, all the way to Palm Avenue.
11:31:34 I must have gone through ten green lights during rush
11:31:38 hour.
11:31:38 It took me less than two minutes to get there.
11:31:40 And I don't think I was going over the speed limit.
11:31:43 So it's about the fact that we don't have enough
11:31:46 signalization, it not the fact that we have all these
11:31:51 one-way streets that encourage the whole drag racing.
11:31:55 But, you know, at least at the schools, we should be
11:31:57 able to, particularly on Dale Mabry.
11:32:05 There's a -- if you are north of the -- threaten

11:32:13 there's a light.
11:32:13 Is there a light at the school driveway?
11:32:19 And then there's not another light until Bay to Bay.
11:32:23 So to me, that's the answer.
11:32:24 People aren't going to slow down even if you change
11:32:26 the speed limit.
11:32:28 But you have got to get more signalization in there,
11:32:31 or change the, you know, I mean, I just -- from living
11:32:36 and driving and taking public transportation and all
11:32:41 kind of other cities, here, we don't care about
11:32:47 pedestrians.
11:32:47 It's not the priority.
11:32:49 I'm not saying you don't or I don't or anybody who
11:32:52 lives in the city, but the FDOT especially philosophy
11:32:58 is about moving cars and getting traffic off of the
11:33:01 freeways to get them on our roads, or their state
11:33:05 roads.
11:33:06 It's such a huge change that we need to see in our
11:33:12 attitude, and our values about driving.
11:33:19 Every street in South Tampa is a hazard.
11:33:23 And it because when don't put -- I think the
11:33:27 pedestrians -- I don't mean you, or our transportation

11:33:30 department.
11:33:31 I know a lot of it is because we have to do what FDOT
11:33:33 wants us to do.
11:33:34 But I think that we need to figure out what we can do
11:33:37 on any of our roads that would change that.
11:33:43 Traffic calming measures, too, which I haven't seen us
11:33:46 doing much of what we started to do it a little bit.
11:33:50 And I know it costs money.
11:33:56 >> You raise some good philosophical points and I
11:33:59 would reserve the right to speak with you another time
11:34:01 about this, because there are some significant issues
11:34:04 there, and just what is the goal?
11:34:09 What are the objectives?
11:34:12 >> Right.
11:34:12 And we talked about this on the MPO all the time.
11:34:16 So we'll have Linda's motion or John's motion and then
11:34:26 we'll discuss it.
11:34:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have a motion and second on the
11:34:28 floor.
11:34:31 >>> Just for clarification, as I heard the motion
11:34:35 correctly, it was to direct public works to make
11:34:42 requests about D.O.T., and under the charter,

11:34:45 intergovernmental relations is clearly with the
11:34:46 administration.
11:34:47 So I just want to be clear that you are requesting
11:34:50 that the administration talk to FDOT, but I don't
11:34:54 want -- I want to make sure we are clear.
11:34:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We are requesting the
11:34:59 administration send out a letter.
11:35:03 And thanks for clarifying that.
11:35:06 I'll just add on, if the administration chooses not
11:35:08 to, then come back and report and tell us that.
11:35:11 >>> I don't think there's a difference on the issue,
11:35:14 from what I have heard discussed, I just want to make
11:35:17 sure I'm clear in terms of the charter
11:35:19 responsibilities.
11:35:19 Thank you.
11:35:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I was waiting on that one.
11:35:23 I was waitin' on it.
11:35:25 Yes.
11:35:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: While we are requesting the
11:35:28 administration talk to the Department of
11:35:30 Transportation, at our MPO meeting the other day, we
11:35:33 noted that Kennedy Boulevard and Twiggs Street are a

11:35:40 pair and Kennedy is supposed to be one of the main
11:35:42 east-west pedestrian streets, that it's really very
11:35:45 hostile to pedestrians.
11:35:46 And at an informal conversation with FDOT about
11:35:49 whether they would swap out Kennedy and Twigg, they
11:35:52 said we would consider it.
11:35:54 We need to have an official request from the
11:35:56 administration.
11:35:57 So I would like to request that the administration --
11:36:00 Okay, before we move on that, let's deal with this.
11:36:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
11:36:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This motion.
11:36:09 Do we need a separate motion?
11:36:10 Do you want to include that in yours?
11:36:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let not muddy it up.
11:36:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion by Mr. Dingfelder, second bid,
11:36:24 to send a letter to the FDOT to look at driving speed
11:36:29 around plant.
11:36:30 All in favor?
11:36:31 Opposes?
11:36:31 Okay.
11:36:32 All right.

11:36:33 Now.
11:36:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay, I'm sorry.
11:36:35 I would like to request that the administration
11:36:37 consider asking the Department of Transportation to
11:36:39 swap out the ownership of Twigg and Kennedy Boulevard
11:36:43 between Meridian and Channelside to improve the
11:36:47 quality of the pedestrian experience on the same
11:36:51 east-west connector between challenge side drive and
11:36:55 Meridian street.
11:36:57 And they said that they were open to it.
11:36:59 And Bob Clifford said, you better ask fast because I
11:37:03 am getting ready to take over TBARTA.
11:37:06 And I asked transportation and they haven't heard of
11:37:08 it everyone though I discussed with Mark Huey a few
11:37:11 months ago.
11:37:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
11:37:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
11:37:15 (Motion carried).
11:37:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'll discuss it with you.
11:37:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
11:37:26 Let's take up the --
11:37:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to receive and file.

11:37:34 83.
11:37:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:37:37 All opposed same sign.
11:37:38 Then we need a motion to continue 84.
11:37:40 >> So moved.
11:37:41 >> Second.
11:37:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: To March 6 of '09.
11:37:46 84, right?
11:37:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: At 1:30 in the afternoon?
11:37:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Now let's go back to items 11, 12 and
11:37:59 13.
11:37:59 Yes.
11:38:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I read through the backups and sort
11:38:12 of got lost in the financial maze.
11:38:18 If you could give us the overview of what these items
11:38:21 are.
11:38:21 It looks like they are connected.
11:38:22 And I see that some of this money is federal. But
11:38:25 what I am trying to figure out is how much money is
11:38:28 local, number one.
11:38:29 And, number two, is on item 13, it talks about the
11:38:32 landscape area trust district 6 fund, which doesn't

11:38:37 ring a bell with me.
11:38:40 So just if you can tell us.
11:38:42 >>> Palus, parks and recreation director.
11:38:48 10 and 12 are linked.
11:38:50 The information that's there is part of the local
11:38:56 agency program we have, D.O.T. for the Kennedy
11:38:59 improvement.
11:39:00 And the amendments are in connection with that as
11:39:03 well, and bringing that to memorial highway.
11:39:07 Dollars that are there are reimbursable dollars to
11:39:09 fund the funding sources from the safety, the federal
11:39:15 EROC grants.
11:39:17 So the dollars out of our federal project will be
11:39:19 reimbursed and that is part of that ongoing project
11:39:21 with Kennedy.
11:39:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All $600,000?
11:39:26 >>KAREN PALUS: Yes.
11:39:27 >> And on item 13, what is that $40,000?
11:39:31 Landscape area trust district 6 fund.
11:39:33 What is that fund?
11:39:34 And what's the origin of that fund?
11:39:37 >>KAREN PALUS: Item 13 is a separate item.

11:39:39 It's Bayshore Boulevard improvements.
11:39:41 The landscape area trust funds, the trust funds are
11:39:44 east of this area.
11:39:45 So developers pay into that.
11:39:48 But they have to do fee in lieu essentially for
11:39:51 landscape or green space.
11:39:53 They pay into that.
11:39:55 When those dollars go in, they go into those areas
11:39:57 that have to be spent within five years within the
11:40:00 districts of those boundaries.
11:40:01 So you will see the dollars there are allocated within
11:40:03 that space which is Bayshore as one of those
11:40:06 locations.
11:40:06 >> And I had a feeling that's what it was.
11:40:10 It's a green space fund.
11:40:11 >> It is for landscape.
11:40:13 This is a different one.
11:40:14 We have a park fund as well, park trust fund, when you
11:40:18 pay for land.
11:40:19 And this is specifically for landscape improvements
11:40:22 within the district.
11:40:27 >> I was asking Marty to try to find the ordinance.

11:40:30 I thought we just did one ordinance, if somebody
11:40:32 doesn't want to have -- let's say they were doing the
11:40:35 condos in Soho, and they don't have enough green
11:40:38 space, so they have a waiver of green space and they
11:40:42 pay the waiver in lieu of green space.
11:40:45 That's not this?
11:40:46 >> There's two versions.
11:40:48 There's one strictly for the landscaping piece and
11:40:50 then one you have to pay for park land.
11:40:52 If you can't provide the land and space those
11:40:55 required, you pay into that for a and that's the open
11:41:00 space piece.
11:41:01 Landscape trust fund is where certain green areas and
11:41:04 things as well, that landscape areas that you don't
11:41:07 meet the requirements or the tree, they couldn't put
11:41:11 the number of trees required on the property, they pay
11:41:13 into that fund and then the landscape goes into those
11:41:17 areas.
11:41:17 >> So we have always referred to that as the tree
11:41:19 fund.
11:41:20 >> No.
11:41:21 A whole different element as well.

11:41:26 In our shop right now, there's about eight different
11:41:28 type of trust fund.
11:41:29 And then many of them are districted out.
11:41:32 This one is specific.
11:41:33 It has a five-year window on it.
11:41:35 We are trying to do some irrigation improvements.
11:41:37 We have hooked up reclaimed on the Bayshore area with
11:41:40 the water department.
11:41:41 And we are trying to improve some of the irrigations
11:41:44 so that is more efficient and more effective.
11:41:46 >> I just wanted to make sure this wasn't the green
11:41:49 space fund because the green space fund we
11:41:52 specifically said we were going to try to buy more
11:41:54 acreage.
11:41:54 >>> Right.
11:41:55 We have that as well.
11:41:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think you have some good news
11:42:00 about when things are going to get planted in the
11:42:02 medians along Kennedy, as far as the date.
11:42:06 Like isn't it before Super Bowl?
11:42:08 >>> They are working on some of that but I don't think
11:42:10 they were getting that through for Super Bowl.

11:42:13 I didn't think they were going to start.
11:42:14 >> I thought we were going to make it beautiful by
11:42:18 Super Bowl.
11:42:18 >>> We are going to try as much as we can.
11:42:22 We got into an extended period with -- because this is
11:42:27 funds it took FDOT to have approval, we are waiting
11:42:35 for approvals and then do what we can.
11:42:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion on 11, 12 and 13.
11:42:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
11:42:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
11:42:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved by Councilwoman Psalms, seconded
11:42:46 by councilman Miranda.
11:42:48 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:42:50 Opposed same sign.
11:42:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Vaughan, don't leave the podium.
11:42:57 I know I talked to you.
11:42:58 But I have been getting calls in my neighborhood,
11:43:02 getting ready to put pipes there.
11:43:04 I happened to be home that day and I saw them putting
11:43:07 sticks in my yard and I didn't know anything about it
11:43:09 until I talked with you.
11:43:10 But I have been getting calls now from people that

11:43:13 don't know anything about it.
11:43:14 Nobody had a meeting with the neighborhood.
11:43:17 Nobody sent letters out, anything.
11:43:19 >>> Dave Vaughan, contract administration.
11:43:22 We have had more public meetings and interaction.
11:43:25 This is related to the 12th Street force main project.
11:43:29 And any project I know of and in fact know that
11:43:35 correspondence went to your neighbors.
11:43:38 >>GWEN MILLER: I didn't get one.
11:43:39 >>> Well, as I spoke with you yesterday, there was an
11:43:41 issue with you the way your address came up in the
11:43:43 database.
11:43:46 I have asked this morning for the folks to come and
11:43:51 give you a briefing to understand exactly what's
11:43:53 happening in that area.
11:43:55 To the extent that you can communicate to them where
11:43:58 there may be a gap in the communication, we'll be
11:44:01 happy to plug it.
11:44:02 But as they will come and brief you, we have a process
11:44:07 that controls how much we tear up at a time, and how
11:44:11 we fix it, and all of them will be happy to share with
11:44:15 you.

11:44:15 >> Because a lot of people, when they start digging,
11:44:18 will they be able to get out of their yards?
11:44:21 >> That's part of this whole program.
11:44:23 And there is a plan, and a means.
11:44:29 There is also, if you go to the city's web page, there
11:44:32 is a link right there on the main web page that will
11:44:36 take you to a project-specific site on the UCAP
11:44:42 program.
11:44:42 We'll show you locations.
11:44:43 It will show you progress.
11:44:44 It will show you where we are coming next.
11:44:46 It will give you more information than I think you
11:44:50 would ever want.
11:44:51 But it's there.
11:44:52 But in addition we are going to have them come brief
11:44:54 you and bring it.
11:44:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Miller.
11:45:00 If I may, Mr. Chairman.
11:45:01 I do microdrilling.
11:45:03 You can do conventional drilling.
11:45:05 It's in your neighborhood, conventional means you are
11:45:07 inside that machine about 20 feet down, 80 feet

11:45:10 across.
11:45:11 So you are there by that machine yourself.
11:45:17 And I had the pleasure of going with Mr. Daignault and
11:45:20 others to inspect that site.
11:45:22 And to me it was terrific what they are doing.
11:45:27 Way they do it, very little disruption.
11:45:29 They do about 80 feet a day of the drilling, and they
11:45:33 have the trucks moving the sand as soon as the pipe is
11:45:36 in, they bring the sand back from where they took it,
11:45:40 pick it up, bring it back, and it really is a clever
11:45:43 way of doing things.
11:45:46 I hate to let the cat out of the bag but this may be
11:45:48 something that Mr. Daignault, I'm sure he's looking at
11:45:50 to do some of the problems that we have in drainage
11:45:55 and other parts of the city where we can dig under
11:45:58 without disrupting the trees, it doesn't disrupt trees
11:46:02 or anything like that.
11:46:03 This goes under the river.
11:46:04 They are everyone doing.
11:46:05 That a marvelous piece of engineering done with
11:46:08 computers, the computers tell you if it's soft sand,
11:46:11 rock, lay clay, whatever it's there they know and it's

11:46:14 amazing.
11:46:15 If you want to gone see something amazing, go see
11:46:18 that.
11:46:18 It really is a great thing.
11:46:19 >>GWEN MILLER: I know 12th Street.
11:46:30 >> 12th Street is the name they gave it.
11:46:32 I wish it were Lake Avenue project.
11:46:34 We would have had no problem.
11:46:35 >> In my neighborhood.
11:46:39 >> I agree with you, I think I am going to move there.
11:46:42 >> I saw the sticks in my yard and didn't know
11:46:45 anything about it.
11:46:46 And I know I have to go in and out a lot.
11:46:49 And no one can block my driveway so I can't get out
11:46:53 and I don't want to be there three or four months to
11:46:56 complete it.
11:46:56 I hope they can do it faster than that.
11:47:09 >>> A traditional Christmas show, an excerpt from the
11:47:25 Nutcracker at the performing arts.
11:47:29 And they have done this for 20 years, and there's
11:47:31 thousands and thousands of kids that they have touched
11:47:34 their lives, not only here but across the bay, and I

11:47:37 would like to have a commendation made out to the
11:47:40 Steinbrenner family, the New York Yankees and the
11:47:42 Yankee Foundation so someone from the Foundation can
11:47:47 come and receive this.
11:47:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Second.
11:47:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
11:47:52 (Motion carried).
11:47:55 Councilman Caetano.
11:47:57 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Some months ago, I asked for a
11:47:59 report from the building department about the
11:48:01 construction permits.
11:48:05 And the report that we got is really very skewed.
11:48:09 I don't think it's a true report.
11:48:11 So I would like them to follow this that I am handing
11:48:21 out now and come up with a report for that.
11:48:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Two weeks?
11:48:29 >> I don't know how long it will take because cutting
11:48:33 down trees.
11:48:33 >> 30 days?
11:48:35 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: 30 days should be fine.
11:48:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by Councilwoman
11:48:39 Saul-Sena.

11:48:40 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:48:42 Opposes?
11:48:43 Okay.
11:48:45 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to give a commendation to
11:48:47 Ruth retiring from the credit union and I will be
11:48:53 presenting it to her tomorrow morning.
11:48:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
11:48:57 Miranda.
11:48:57 (Motion carried).
11:48:59 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, if they do rip up
11:49:03 the former chairman's yard I suggest they put some two
11:49:06 by tens across there so she can be here at our
11:49:09 meetings.
11:49:10 >>GWEN MILLER: No, he gave me a good suggestion, I
11:49:13 just stay home that day.
11:49:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Not acceptable.
11:49:17 Not acceptable.
11:49:18 [ Laughter ]
11:49:18 Okay.
11:49:18 A couple things you have here.
11:49:21 One is right after the break he would need to do the
11:49:26 advertisement for the holiday.

11:49:27 And then also Mrs. Wise and her department received
11:49:31 the government's finance officer association award.
11:49:35 And they would like January 22nd to appear before
11:49:39 council to make a presentation.
11:49:40 >> So moved.
11:49:42 >> Second.
11:49:42 (Motion carried).
11:49:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Secondly, a request we do a
11:49:47 commendation to Charlie's steakhouse.
11:49:49 It my understanding this request is coming from
11:49:51 officer Miller that day, and giving the police awards
11:49:57 for years so we need to recognize them.
11:49:59 Also on our holiday luncheon they have agreed to open
11:50:02 up so we can come.
11:50:05 >> So moved.
11:50:05 >> Second.
11:50:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Not you, Charlie.
11:50:13 >> Moved and seconded.
11:50:16 (Motion carried)
11:50:17 Okay, yes.
11:50:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Council needs to be updated on
11:50:24 where we stand with the funding in our pensions and I

11:50:31 wonder if we have any presentations scheduled during
11:50:33 our workshop time by Bonnie Wise on the financial
11:50:37 situation right now.
11:50:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Isn't the mayor giving us an update
11:50:41 next week?
11:50:42 I would assume.
11:50:44 That's part of it.
11:50:47 That's part of it, I would assume.
11:50:49 That's part of the budgetary issue.
11:50:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why don't weep do that?
11:50:52 And then if that's not addressed we can schedule it.
11:50:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's my understanding that's one of
11:50:56 the biggest issues in terms of the financial impact.
11:51:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What is that?
11:51:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The pension, the value of our
11:51:03 investment.
11:51:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just two issues and I believe council
11:51:07 member Saul-Sena raised, the fact that there is and
11:51:10 the chair stated there is a meeting that council will
11:51:12 be attending in the mayor's conference room, invited
11:51:15 for us the, December 9th at 2 p.m. regards the
11:51:19 budget issue so that's a reminder you have that before

11:51:22 the next meeting of council.
11:51:23 Another reminder and I don't know whether the clerk
11:51:25 wishes to address it but on page 23 of your agenda,
11:51:28 you have the advertisement of board and commission
11:51:31 vacancies, and council, we have been informed that the
11:51:35 clerk has done extensive advertising, and have not
11:51:39 gotten the level of responses they would like.
11:51:42 The request, council, is that you look through those
11:51:44 advertisements, that you reflect upon who your
11:51:48 constituents are and possibly please advance the cause
11:51:52 and invite participation and applications to the
11:51:55 clerk.
11:52:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anything else, council?
11:52:03 Yes, councilman Dingfelder.
11:52:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: A couple of commendations.
11:52:06 I would like to present Steve Glickman a commendation.
11:52:10 He's been serving our community down at Robinson high
11:52:13 school as a volunteer trainer for about 25 years.
11:52:16 And if I can do that.
11:52:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:52:22 (Motion carried).
11:52:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Gwen was mentioning about Margaret

11:52:33 Vizzi, and I had heard that she had broken her
11:52:39 kneecap.
11:52:40 I was concerned that perhaps the developer had done
11:52:42 it.
11:52:43 Just kidding.
11:52:44 But in all seriousness, I wanted to give a hello to
11:52:49 Margaret.
11:52:49 And I asked the clerk yesterday, I said, has this
11:52:52 council ever given a commendation to Margaret Vizzi?
11:52:54 And Sandy went back and looked and said no.
11:52:57 In all the years she's been serving this community
11:52:59 through her own efforts, and T.H.A.N. of course, we
11:53:02 have never done that.
11:53:04 So I would like us to, when she's up and ready, to
11:53:06 hobble in here to give a commendation to Margaret
11:53:08 Vizzi.
11:53:10 >> Second.
11:53:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: She was like a founder of T.H.A.N.
11:53:16 >> One of two or three founders of T.H.A.N.
11:53:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So moved.
11:53:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I had one other.
11:53:23 If I find out, I'll do it this afternoon.

11:53:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then we stand in recess.
11:53:28 Remain so we can do the holiday briefing.
11:53:31 But we stand in recess.
11:53:34 (City Council recess)

The preceding represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.

1:30 P.M.

The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
The original of this transcript was produced in all
capital letters and any variation thereto may be a
result of third party edits and software compatibility
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.

13:34:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
13:34:44 order.
13:34:44 Tampa City Council will now come to order.
13:34:47 Tampa City Council will now come to order.
13:34:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
13:34:58 >> Dingfelder?
13:34:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:35:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
13:35:01 Caetano?
13:35:04 Mulhern?
13:35:05 Scott?

13:35:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
13:35:06 We'll take up our 1:30 items.
13:35:09 Our public hearings, 85 through 88 and then 88 through
13:35:22 89.
13:35:23 Why don't we open up all the public hearings, and then
13:35:25 what we can do also, those who will be addressing
13:35:28 Council on quasi-judicial can stand to be sworn in.
13:35:32 Motion to open.
13:35:38 >> So moved.
13:35:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want to hold 88 --
13:35:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 89 and 90 are the last items on the
13:35:46 agenda.
13:35:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: We'll hold those till later then.
13:35:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, last items on the agenda.
13:35:52 All in favor of the motion, aye.
13:35:53 Opposed?
13:35:54 Okay.
13:35:54 If you're going to be addressing Council, please stand
13:35:56 and raise your hands.
13:35:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Items 85 through 88, on items 85
13:36:03 through 88.
13:36:08 (Oath administered by clerk).

13:36:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
13:36:15 All right.
13:36:18 Item 85.
13:36:34 >>JAMES COOK: Good afternoon.
13:36:35 James Cook, Land Development Coordination.
13:36:37 I've been sworn.
13:36:39 I'm here on item 85, File C08-11, petition of Pro-Fit
13:36:43 Development.
13:36:44 Petitioner is requesting to vacate the remainder of an
13:36:46 east-west alley lying between east MLK and Ida Street
13:36:46 and running from Taliaferro to Nebraska Avenue.
13:36:53 You can see on the elmo, petitioner's property is
13:36:58 highlighted in red.
13:36:59 Slide this up.
13:37:00 Proposed vacating alley is highlighted in yellow.
13:37:05 Ida street to the north.
13:37:07 Dr. Martin Luther King to the south.
13:37:09 Interstate to the west.
13:37:10 And Nebraska Avenue to the east.
13:37:11 This alley originally extends a T-shaped alley.
13:37:17 The other portion of the alley was vacated in 1988 to
13:37:22 allow the Eckerd drugs to be constructed, which is now

13:37:29 turned into an auto parts store.
13:37:30 Petitioner is seeking to vacate the rest of the alley.
13:37:32 This is the alley looking east from Taliaferro.
13:37:35 Petitioner's property is to the left-hand side of the
13:37:37 photo.
13:37:37 This is a shot of the alleyway looking east towards
13:37:43 the dead end, toward the segment already vacated.
13:37:46 Auto parts store in the far distance.
13:37:48 This is a shot of the alleyway mid block looking back
13:37:57 west towards the petitioner's property.
13:37:59 Petitioner's property is on the other side of this
13:38:01 fence.
13:38:02 And this is a shot of the petitioner's property.
13:38:08 Petitioner is currently constructing a two-story
13:38:10 commercial building on the site and is seeking this
13:38:12 vacating.
13:38:13 This is in the Seminole Heights overlay district.
13:38:17 Within this district, there is approximately 530
13:38:19 alleys of which 156 have already been vacated.
13:38:22 On the report, the only conditions we're requesting is
13:38:26 an utility easement for Verizon and a wastewater
13:38:30 easement.

13:38:31 Part of the conditions, there is a special condition.
13:38:33 Wastewater is requesting two scenarios and the
13:38:36 petitioner is to meet either one of the two scenarios.
13:38:40 Both of those conditions have been put in the
13:38:42 ordinance.
13:38:42 Staff has no objections.
13:38:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: James, could you put that very
13:38:50 first aerial overhead back up?
13:38:52 Does that access Taliaferro?
13:39:00 >>JAMES COOK: Taliaferro is actually the eastern
13:39:03 portion, and that's the on-ramp to the interstate.
13:39:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But does it go -- does the alley go
13:39:09 through there?
13:39:10 >>JAMES COOK: It's blocked off by a wall.
13:39:12 There's a shell gas station on the other side of the
13:39:16 wall.
13:39:17 Chain-link fence, you can see the top of it.
13:39:19 It heads west and then north on Taliaferro.
13:39:23 The alley is actually blocked off.
13:39:24 The other end of the alley, there's another fence.
13:39:27 The alley is not being used.
13:39:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.

13:39:32 Thank you.
13:39:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any more questions?
13:39:34 Petitioner?
13:39:47 >> Good afternoon.
13:39:48 Terrence Bradford from Pro-Fit Development.
13:39:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you have anything you want to add,
13:39:57 anything you want to say?
13:39:59 >> The purpose of vacating the alley is to keep out
13:40:01 the vagrants because what's happening there, they all
13:40:06 come hang out, drink beer.
13:40:11 We don't need to have that around -- we're putting a
13:40:18 new office building there, and it's not safe.
13:40:20 So as we've been there all year, they've been going
13:40:23 away, but we don't need to put a building there and
13:40:26 then in between the shell gas station, there's going
13:40:29 to be a corridor like I explained the wastewater, we
13:40:31 don't need the alley to build anything.
13:40:33 They still will have the same access to the property
13:40:36 to get to the wastewater whenever they need to clean
13:40:39 the line.
13:40:40 But they want us to comply with two conditions, which
13:40:44 I don't think is right.

13:40:45 They want us to put a liner on the sewer, the whole
13:40:51 sewer line which would be like $20,000.
13:40:54 Or we set up a little small homeowners association
13:40:59 between us, the shell gas station, the discount and
13:41:03 two of the other homeowners, and then we maintain
13:41:07 responsibility of the sewer line, which I don't think
13:41:10 that's right.
13:41:17 >>GWEN MILLER: That's good.
13:41:18 >> I think either way, they still will have access to
13:41:21 the alley.
13:41:22 We're not doing anything in the alley.
13:41:24 We just want to maintain the order around the area.
13:41:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question on that issue.
13:41:31 James, can you elaborate a little bit on that?
13:41:37 >>JAMES COOK: There are two conditions the wastewater
13:41:39 department has put in the ordinance.
13:41:41 They have a new policy.
13:41:43 Actually, this will be the first vacating this will
13:41:45 apply to on older sewer lines.
13:41:48 They are wanting to do what's called CIPP, which is a
13:41:51 slip.
13:41:52 You put a sleeve over the pipe to protect the older

13:41:54 pipes.
13:41:57 They want the petitioner to bear that cost to slip
13:41:59 that whole pipe.
13:42:00 They also want each service lateral that would come
13:42:04 off that pipe that would service -- I believe there
13:42:06 are two or three residential properties, plus shell,
13:42:10 the petitioner would bear the cost of upgrading the
13:42:13 laterals also.
13:42:14 This is a new policy that the sewer department has
13:42:16 passed on to us.
13:42:18 I'm just relaying the message.
13:42:19 I was hoping somebody from sewer could be here.
13:42:22 Without that, they would object to the vacating.
13:42:24 That is a condition on this vacating.
13:42:26 So without that conditional approval, sewer department
13:42:29 would render an objection.
13:42:30 You can approve it, deny it, take the conditions out,
13:42:39 solely up to you.
13:42:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't think we can do that.
13:42:45 >> In the past, sewer department reserved an easement
13:42:47 to protect the pipe.
13:42:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Why don't we do this.

13:42:50 Since it's a new policy and the sewer department is
13:42:53 not here to speak to it, why don't we continue it for
13:42:56 two weeks and allow the wastewater department to come
13:42:58 and justify the new program.
13:43:02 This gentleman can come make his argument again, and
13:43:05 then we can see where we end up on it.
13:43:08 Because, Mr. Chairman, I think we could yank the
13:43:12 condition.
13:43:13 Then we'd be going against staff recommendation.
13:43:16 But, you know, I think the gentleman at least deserves
13:43:20 the right for that issue to be kind of heard out a
13:43:23 little bit.
13:43:28 >>MARY MULHERN: I just had a question on the map.
13:43:32 If you're looking at it, the petitioner's property is
13:43:36 the darkened square that's north of the alley, right?
13:43:39 Is that correct?
13:43:41 >>JAMES COOK: That is correct.
13:43:42 >>MARY MULHERN: What is the building just south?
13:43:45 >>JAMES COOK: That's the shell gas station.
13:43:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, that's the gas station.
13:43:50 And a gas station is okay with the vacating?
13:43:55 >>JAMES COOK: We haven't received any objections from

13:43:57 any of the abutting property owners on the vacating
13:44:00 request.
13:44:01 They probably don't even realize there's an alley back
13:44:04 there.
13:44:04 >>MARY MULHERN: From what you were saying, it sounds
13:44:07 like the pipes there don't just serve petitioner's
13:44:13 property but other homes.
13:44:14 Is it the homes north of there?
13:44:17 >>JAMES COOK: I believe there are -- I don't know if
13:44:19 this one lot has a structure on it or not.
13:44:22 I do know there is one there.
13:44:24 The alley terminates right here at the property line.
13:44:27 That's where the auto parts store is.
13:44:29 This is previously vacated.
13:44:30 You really only have three additional abutting
13:44:33 property owners with the decision of the petitioner.
13:44:35 >>MARY MULHERN: Do we know what the cost to him would
13:44:39 be if he were to agree to the conditions?
13:44:41 >>JAMES COOK: I'm sure they gave him an estimate of
13:44:44 cost.
13:44:44 Pretty expensive.
13:44:46 >> 20,000.

13:44:47 >>JAMES COOK: You have to realize, this is to protect
13:44:49 the city, too.
13:44:50 Without these conditions, we'll be responsible for
13:44:52 anything that happens to that pipe.
13:44:53 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I would second -- John, did you
13:45:00 make a motion?
13:45:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Like to continue for two weeks
13:45:03 until we have a full explanation from wastewater on
13:45:05 the issue and the necessity.
13:45:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
13:45:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
13:45:10 I understand the situation.
13:45:11 However, I hope that the reason for it is not that
13:45:17 those are aging pipes.
13:45:18 Because once you go to aging pipes and you put a
13:45:20 sleeve over them, that works fine.
13:45:22 Why should the petitioner be responsible for that if
13:45:24 he can leave an easement granted to the city to go in
13:45:27 and do the work as needed?
13:45:28 Yeah, that's how we have been doing it.
13:45:32 I look at this as another means of revenue, but I have
13:45:35 to understand what -- why and when were those things

13:45:39 put into effect without us realizing what was done.
13:45:43 That's all I have to say, Mr. Chairman.
13:45:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
13:45:46 The motion on the floor is continue two weeks and ask
13:45:51 staff to be here to give their reason for the new
13:45:55 policy.
13:45:55 All in favor, signify by aye.
13:45:57 Opposed?
13:45:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Again, that date would be the 18th
13:46:01 of December at 1:30 in the afternoon.
13:46:03 Thank you.
13:46:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me raise a question.
13:46:11 We need to watch that 18th day.
13:46:13 I already know that we have a full day.
13:46:18 So as we add things on, that means we'll be here that
13:46:21 much longer.
13:46:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: As the maker of the motion,
13:46:24 Mr. Chairman, let me ask the gentleman, the
13:46:27 petitioner, do you have any problem if we delay this
13:46:29 till January?
13:46:30 Will that change your construction plans or anything?
13:46:33 >> No.

13:46:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, I'm fine with the
13:46:36 January date out of deference to your comment.
13:46:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I just want us to be aware of
13:46:41 the 18th date, that is our last meeting before the
13:46:45 new year, so we already have a full agenda.
13:46:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let's put it in January.
13:46:48 Any suggestions, madam clerk?
13:46:51 >>THE CLERK: On January the 8th at 1:30 in the
13:46:55 afternoon, we have one item, one public hearing.
13:46:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can you amend that motion to reflect
13:47:00 that?
13:47:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
13:47:01 So amended, January 8th, 1:30.
13:47:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: January the 8th at 1:30.
13:47:12 Thank you.
13:47:14 Item 86, need a motion to continue to the 18th.
13:47:19 >> So moved.
13:47:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Of December.
13:47:22 1:30.
13:47:23 Moved and seconded.
13:47:24 Seconded by --
13:47:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want to ask if there was

13:47:26 anybody who wanted to address that?
13:47:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
13:47:30 item 86, the continuance to December the 18th at
13:47:33 1:30?
13:47:34 All in favor, signify by saying aye.
13:47:46 Opposed, same sign.
13:47:47 So moved.
13:47:48 Item 87, it's already opened.
13:48:03 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Thank you, Council.
13:48:04 Catherine Coyle, Land Development.
13:48:06 Petition V08-117.
13:48:09 This request is for 801 St. Pete Times Forum Drive for
13:48:12 the Tampa Bay history center.
13:48:13 This is the request for their 4(COP-X) classification.
13:48:17 There are two waivers.
13:48:19 There are other establishments that sell alcohol
13:48:21 within a thousand feet.
13:48:23 And residential uses within a thousand feet.
13:48:28 As you are aware, 4(COP-X) is for the consumption on
13:48:32 premises only of beer, wine and liquor.
13:48:35 There are typical hours of operation noted on the site
13:48:37 plan and ordinance.

13:48:39 Page one of the staff report, Monday through Sunday,
13:48:41 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. that are open to the public.
13:48:43 Business hours, catering hours at the Columbia
13:48:47 Restaurant are Sunday through Thursday 12 a.m. to --
13:48:51 12 p.m. to 12 a.m.
13:48:53 Friday and Saturday from 10 a.m. to 1 a.m.
13:48:55 You'll note on page two and three of the staff report
13:48:58 the locations within a thousand feet.
13:49:00 Just for your reference, the location, as you probably
13:49:04 know, is adjacent to Beneficial Drive.
13:49:06 This location to the southeast of the forum.
13:49:10 And as you know, the construction is underway.
13:49:13 And how it sits adjacent to the Channel District.
13:49:17 I'm available for any questions.
13:49:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?
13:49:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, may I ask something?
13:49:26 Cathy, the footprint that the see on the screen
13:49:31 , the whole thing is going to get rezoned for alcohol?
13:49:34 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The footprint on the aerial is the
13:49:36 parcel itself.
13:49:37 The footprint of the alcohol is smaller.
13:49:40 It is actually in the site plan and part of the legal

13:49:44 description, I can show that to you specifically.
13:49:47 I can let the petitioner come up and give her part of
13:49:52 the presentation and I'll bring out the picture to
13:49:54 show it to you.
13:49:55 You're welcome.
13:49:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
13:49:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yeah.
13:49:58 Just as a technicality, I have a feeling by the time
13:50:01 we read this for second reading to approve the wet
13:50:06 zoning, the street will be named different, because
13:50:09 the street is moving faster than the alcohol.
13:50:12 So, I don't know how you-all want to handle that.
13:50:16 We're coming back two weeks from now.
13:50:19 >> I have an ordinance ready.
13:50:21 We'll set it at the second hearing with the new name.
13:50:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I doubt you have any opposition.
13:50:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: He's catching up from this morning.
13:50:35 >> Marsha Ryberg on behalf of the Tampa Bay history
13:50:39 center.
13:50:40 I've been -- you've seen us before.
13:50:43 You know what the history center is.
13:50:47 Residential uses for which we seek a waiver are

13:50:52 basically with one exception, they are across the
13:50:54 water at Harbour Island.
13:50:56 It's not like you've got --
13:50:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Excuse me.
13:50:59 Let me see if there's any opposition.
13:51:01 Anyone here wish to address Council on this had issue?
13:51:05 Anyone here wish to address Council on this issue?
13:51:07 >> Move to close.
13:51:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
13:51:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Ordinance approving a special use
13:51:16 permit S-2 for alcoholic beverages sales large venue
13:51:20 and making lawful the sale of beverages regardless of
13:51:24 alcoholic content, beer, wine, liquor, 4(COP-X) for
13:51:27 consumption on premises only at or from that certain
13:51:30 lot, plot, or tract of land located at 801 St. Pete
13:51:34 Times Forum Drive, Tampa, Florida, as more
13:51:37 particularly described in section 2 hereof, approving
13:51:40 waivers as set forth herein, waiving certain
13:51:43 restrictions as to the distance based upon certain
13:51:46 findings, imposing certain conditions, providing for
13:51:49 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
13:51:51 effective date.

13:51:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
13:51:53 Seconded by Councilman Dingfelder.
13:51:55 All in favor, say aye.
13:51:56 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
13:51:59 Second reading of the ordinance will be held December
13:52:01 the 18th at 9:30a.m.
13:52:04 >> Thank you.
13:52:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 88.
13:52:11 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Thank you, Council.
13:52:12 Catherine Coyle, Land Development.
13:52:27 Case V08-91 is an appeal of a zoning administrator
13:52:37 decision.
13:52:38 You'll note the location is at 2301 South Thixton
13:52:42 Court.
13:52:42 It is at the southwest corner of Thixton and San
13:52:46 Miguel.
13:52:47 This is Henderson to the west.
13:52:52 This is the aerial of the location as well.
13:52:54 You can see this home is directly behind the
13:52:57 commercial component here on San Miguel at this major
13:53:00 intersection.
13:53:01 The original request that came in was for a special

13:53:08 use one for home occupation within this location.
13:53:10 It was denied based on the waiver that's needed.
13:53:13 The home occupation is required to be within the
13:53:16 principal structure.
13:53:17 This is a unique instance that typically we allow home
13:53:21 occupations for tutoring or educational services, and
13:53:24 thereby a teacher or someone that is trained could
13:53:27 have students come to their house, typically five
13:53:30 students at a time and tutor inside their home.
13:53:32 This is the unique circumstance that their request is
13:53:35 actually for swimming lessons.
13:53:36 So it is a tutoring in a way, except that it happens
13:53:41 to be within the pool.
13:53:42 A pool by definition is an accessory structure by
13:53:46 itself to the principal structure.
13:53:47 So there's a little -- kind of a glitch in the code,
13:53:50 but in order to train or give swimming lessons, this
13:53:53 does require a waiver from City Council to be granted.
13:53:57 You'll note on page one of the staff report that that
13:53:59 is a waiver that is needed.
13:54:01 This location, the site is approximately 11,127 square
13:54:05 feet.

13:54:05 The swimming pool will contain -- will be measured
13:54:09 approximately 24 by 45 located on the west side of the
13:54:12 property.
13:54:12 We did find it inconsistent based on that waiver being
13:54:17 needed, which is typical, if there is a waiver needed.
13:54:20 However, please note that Council does have the
13:54:23 ability to waive that, if you can find under the
13:54:26 general standards on page two and three, that it does
13:54:28 meet the general standards of the special use
13:54:31 criteria.
13:54:31 And I'm available for any questions if you have any.
13:54:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions.
13:54:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is this the existing use?
13:54:39 >>CATHERINE COYLE: It's an existing home.
13:54:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But the pool is new.
13:54:43 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The pool would be new, correct.
13:54:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: There used to be a swim school in
13:54:47 this vicinity for decades and decades.
13:54:50 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I believe the petitioner is a
13:54:51 longtime swim instructor.
13:54:53 I'll let them speak.
13:54:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions from Council?

13:54:56 Petitioner?
13:54:57 >> Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, members of the City
13:54:59 Council.
13:54:59 My name is John Grandoff.
13:55:01 And I have the pleasure this afternoon of representing
13:55:03 Igor and Olena Lytvyn.
13:55:06 If they would please raise their hands.
13:55:09 They have filed this application with the zoning
13:55:12 administrator pro se and asked that I assist them this
13:55:16 afternoon in this appeal hearing.
13:55:18 They have planned to bring their swim school to the
13:55:21 home that they purchased.
13:55:22 They are currently teaching at the guest quarters.
13:55:25 And under your code, the pool is an accessory use, but
13:55:30 it cannot exceed 25% of the main structure.
13:55:32 So for that reason, Ms. Coyle properly denied the
13:55:36 application, and we've asked that we have that denial
13:55:39 overturned by you this afternoon.
13:55:41 I've prepared a survey that showed the approximate
13:55:44 location of the swimming pool.
13:55:45 It's nothing extraordinary.
13:55:48 And with your approval, they would be able to

13:55:52 construct the pool, and you can see the outline of the
13:56:00 home.
13:56:00 The pool area, it would be about a thousand square
13:56:04 feet.
13:56:05 And they would be able to build a pool and teach
13:56:07 children how to swim.
13:56:08 They would meet all the other limitations within the
13:56:11 code.
13:56:12 They respectfully request that you reverse the zoning
13:56:15 administrator's decision, and I remain available for
13:56:18 questions.
13:56:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here want to address Council on
13:56:21 this petition?
13:56:22 Anyone here want to address Council on the petition?
13:56:25 Do you have any questions you want ask Mr. Grandoff?
13:56:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There are two hands that want to
13:56:32 speak to us.
13:56:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Are you all in opposition?
13:56:35 Okay.
13:56:36 Then you need to continue.
13:56:37 You need to go ahead and get your full minutes then.
13:56:41 >> I would only offer that they have been featured in

13:56:43 Tampa Bay metro magazine about their expertise.
13:56:47 They came from the Ukraine and were accomplished
13:56:50 Olympic swimmers and are now here in the U.S.
13:56:52 teaching.
13:56:53 They've also received a designation as outstanding
13:56:57 teachers in 2003.
13:56:59 Certainly, this is their life calling.
13:57:01 And they merely wish to do it as a home accessory use
13:57:04 to their home where they will be living.
13:57:07 As I mentioned --
13:57:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I ask you a question?
13:57:10 I have a feeling that the swimming in the pool itself
13:57:13 are not the issue.
13:57:14 I have a feeling that perhaps maybe the traffic or
13:57:17 parking might be the bigger issue.
13:57:19 So I guess we need to know, you know, how big are the
13:57:22 classes.
13:57:24 It's been a while since my children were that little.
13:57:27 How big are the classes?
13:57:29 How many adults would be expected to stick around or
13:57:32 drop off or that sort of thing?
13:57:34 And are there any limitations in that regard being

13:57:38 offered?
13:57:39 I'm not sure if this is an SU where we can add
13:57:43 limitations to the program.
13:57:44 >> It's a special use one approved by the zoning
13:57:47 administrator.
13:57:48 Certain conditions.
13:57:48 One of the primary conditions, cannot have more than
13:57:50 five pupils at a time, and they are agreeing to that
13:57:53 condition.
13:57:55 Also, the other conditions, they cannot have a sign
13:57:59 other than a small nameplate in front of the house.
13:58:04 No neon signs.
13:58:06 On their own, they are offering to you that they would
13:58:09 limit their hours of operation from 8:30 to 5:00, not
13:58:13 on Friday, not on Saturday, not on Sunday.
13:58:16 They would be younger -- well, they may have older
13:58:22 children.
13:58:23 I misspoke on that one.
13:58:24 They may have older children.
13:58:26 Generally, the younger children would be in the
13:58:28 morning.
13:58:28 The older children would be in the afternoon.

13:58:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is that a double-carport or is this
13:58:34 a circular drive?
13:58:36 How will folks circulate through there assuming there
13:58:39 are five different parents coming and going, which
13:58:43 could be ten cars theoretically.
13:58:46 I mean, I don't know.
13:58:47 I saw it.
13:58:54 I didn't know how it flowed.
13:58:57 >> The property is on the corner of San Miguel and
13:59:00 Thixton.
13:59:00 It's on the southwest corner.
13:59:03 So it's on a corner -- the drop-off would be on San
13:59:06 Miguel, on the opposite side is a day care center.
13:59:11 So the children being dropped off on the day care
13:59:13 across the street and the parents would come forward
13:59:16 along San Miguel approaching from Henderson or Lois,
13:59:19 and would drop off the children at that point.
13:59:21 There's no circular drive.
13:59:23 They could also probably drop them off on Thixton
13:59:26 court, but Thixton is a dead end, so it would be hard
13:59:28 to come back around.
13:59:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

13:59:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
13:59:34 Any other questions?
13:59:38 Those who wish to address Council may come forward at
13:59:41 this time.
13:59:41 If you wish to address Council, would you come
13:59:44 forward, please.
13:59:44 State your name and address.
13:59:45 You have three minutes.
13:59:52 >> My name is Paul Blackford.
13:59:54 I live at 2305 Thixton Court.
13:59:57 I'm two doors down from this location.
13:59:59 There's absolutely no parking for these people.
14:00:02 None.
14:00:02 The day care that he was talking about is constantly
14:00:05 cars going in and out, in and out.
14:00:08 And just feel that there's going to be too much
14:00:11 traffic going on, and we're just afraid that they are
14:00:15 going to be parking up and down Thixton Court in our
14:00:20 yards and a lot of traffic going up and down which is
14:00:22 a dead-end street that we're used to.
14:00:25 Some of our kids and cats and dogs and everybody else.
14:00:28 Thank you.

14:00:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:00:31 Next speaker.
14:00:36 >> My name is Walter Blanco.
14:00:37 I live at 2303 Thixton court next door to them.
14:00:44 I'm a lifetime resident there.
14:00:48 I'm living in the house I grew up in.
14:00:50 My concerns are traffic.
14:00:52 We deal with the traffic from the day care already.
14:00:55 Cars are parked at the end of our streets.
14:00:57 I've had people turn around in my yard.
14:01:00 It's disturbing to me that this location is already
14:01:05 being advertised as a business on the Internet.
14:01:08 Under the name star swim club.
14:01:10 And there's been no approvals on the rezoning of it.
14:01:16 That bothered me a little bit what the expected
14:01:19 outcome is.
14:01:21 The impact to my property value would be another
14:01:24 concern.
14:01:27 Long-term concern for me would be the location
14:01:32 directly behind this house is currently a commercial
14:01:36 business.
14:01:38 What would happen later on down the road if somebody

14:01:41 were to purchase both the properties if the zoning was
14:01:43 changed.
14:01:44 What would happen to our neighborhood.
14:01:45 It is a dead-end street.
14:01:47 It's a quiet place.
14:01:48 We've already got the impact from the day care and
14:01:51 their traffic.
14:01:52 Those are my concerns for it.
14:01:58 Thank you.
14:01:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
14:02:05 >> Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, former colleagues,
14:02:07 it's good to be here.
14:02:08 As many of you know, Bob Buckhorn for the record.
14:02:10 442 West Kennedy Boulevard, suite 240.
14:02:13 As many of you know, I have tried to stay away from
14:02:15 these chambers for these six years so as not to burn
14:02:18 you.
14:02:19 And I promise you that the rest of your afternoon will
14:02:21 be far more entertaining than what we are talking
14:02:23 about here today.
14:02:24 I am glad I am not here.
14:02:26 I wish you well.

14:02:28 I'm not here as a paid advocate.
14:02:30 I'm merely here as a dad.
14:02:32 As most of you know, I sent a copy of an e-mail that
14:02:34 should be in your file explaining exactly what this
14:02:37 program is.
14:02:37 As Mr. Grandoff indicated, Ms. Olena and Ms. Igor are
14:02:44 world class athletes.
14:02:45 Ms. Olena I believe was world champion on the Ukrainian
14:02:45 national team.
14:02:47 Both of my daughters, age three and age seven have
14:02:51 been swimming with them for the last -- since they
14:02:53 were 18 months old.
14:02:55 It is a wonderful, wonderful program.
14:02:57 Ms. Saul-Sena, the program that you referenced was
14:03:00 Ms. Jean's, which literally hundreds of south Tampa
14:03:04 kids and kids from all over this community learned how
14:03:07 to swim.
14:03:08 It is not a swim team.
14:03:10 I think we all need to understand that.
14:03:12 There is no competition.
14:03:12 There are no races.
14:03:14 This is merely a swim program for young children.

14:03:16 Ms. Jean's, as you know, council member Saul-Sena, was
14:03:22 in the middle of a residential neighborhood,
14:03:24 immediately joining commercial, a very similar
14:03:26 situation to what we have here.
14:03:27 I was on this Council probably seven, eight years ago
14:03:30 when we went through the process by why which we
14:03:32 determined what a home use was.
14:03:34 And I don't think any of us and the four of you there
14:03:36 at the time ever imagined that we'd be dealing with a
14:03:39 request for swim lessons for a home-based occupation.
14:03:42 I just don't think it ever occurred to us.
14:03:45 Otherwise, we would have codified it within the law.
14:03:47 But we also allowed the Council at that time and you
14:03:51 the ability to deal with specific circumstances and
14:03:53 unique circumstances that are not in the least bit
14:03:55 intrusive to the neighborhood by virtue of a waiver.
14:03:58 I think you heard Ms. Coyle today say this was a
14:04:01 unique circumstance.
14:04:02 It is not intrusive.
14:04:04 The classes do not overlap, for example, my
14:04:07 three-year-old swims for about 20 minutes.
14:04:10 The next class probably doesn't start for 15 minutes

14:04:12 after that.
14:04:13 My seven-year-old, who is now swimming all four
14:04:16 strokes, breast, butter, back and free, for the folks
14:04:22 interested in energy conservation, she does her best
14:04:24 to conserve her energy by swimming as slowly as she
14:04:28 possibly can.
14:04:28 Which I get on her as a former collegiate athlete very
14:04:32 frequently.
14:04:33 It is not going to be a problem in the neighborhood.
14:04:36 I can promise you that.
14:04:37 Those of you who have seen San Miguel know it's a busy
14:04:41 street.
14:04:41 It has been a busy street for a long time.
14:04:43 Parking will be accommodated.
14:04:45 They are limited to five students per class.
14:04:47 They are limiting the hours of operation.
14:04:49 They are limiting the days of the week for which this
14:04:52 will be available to parents like us.
14:04:54 And I can promise you that this is a program that is
14:04:56 well worth your consideration for a waiver.
14:05:00 Certainly, my kids have benefited from the instruction
14:05:03 of Ms. Olena and Mr. Igor, and will be proficient

14:05:07 swimmers for the rest of their life just as every
14:05:09 other parent who has children in this program will as
14:05:13 well.
14:05:13 Thank you and always good to see you.
14:05:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Buckhorn.
14:05:17 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Catherine Coyle, Land Development.
14:05:19 Just a as a factual point to the last person that
14:05:21 spoke, he kind of asked the question about changing
14:05:26 the zoning on the property and the property adjacent
14:05:28 is commercial and whether this could change, the land
14:05:29 use designation on the property is residential 6.
14:05:32 All commercial activity is actually prohibited within
14:05:34 that land use category.
14:05:35 In order for this property to become any kind of
14:05:37 commercial entity other than a home occupation would
14:05:40 require a land use amendment, and then a rezoning.
14:05:42 So that is not able to happen.
14:05:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:05:45 I guess the only concern then, Ms. Grandoff, is the
14:05:50 parking issue again that both resident raised again,
14:05:54 how will the parking be accommodated?
14:05:59 >> Ms. Coyle said it better than I could on the land

14:06:03 use issue.
14:06:03 The code says this you have to limit it to five pupils
14:06:06 per time.
14:06:07 And then it says, I'm quoting, no traffic shall be
14:06:11 generated by such home occupation in greater volume
14:06:14 than would normally be expected in the neighborhood.
14:06:16 If you're limiting it to five pupils per session, then
14:06:19 you are meeting the requirement that you're not
14:06:22 overburdening the neighborhood.
14:06:23 The parking will be handled on the side of the San
14:06:28 Miguel Street right-of-way, and that's where the
14:06:32 children will be dropped off.
14:06:33 The gate will be right there to the pool.
14:06:37 As they did at Ms. Jean's.
14:06:39 My children went there.
14:06:40 Very neighborhood friendly way to do it.
14:06:43 That's how you handled it.
14:06:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
14:06:46 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, my kids didn't go to Ms. Jeans,
14:06:49 but I go to Dr. ZALONKA, the dentist, who I think
14:06:55 shared a parking lot over there.
14:06:58 There are places to park.

14:06:59 And I think the e-mail we got from Mr. Buckhorn was
14:07:03 saying, would he just -- and what he just told us was
14:07:07 these were short sessions.
14:07:09 You're only going to have five students at once, but I
14:07:12 think that depending on how many sessions you have,
14:07:15 say, in a morning, could you have a lot of traffic
14:07:17 there.
14:07:17 And this e-mail does say that the parents stay with
14:07:20 them.
14:07:20 Which really is not -- doesn't really matter, but I
14:07:25 haven't heard anybody or seen anybody show me where
14:07:29 they are going to park.
14:07:30 So that's what we need to see.
14:07:32 >> Let me show you on the survey.
14:07:35 Focus on this for a moment.
14:07:45 Here is the San Miguel Street.
14:07:50 You have about 18 feet of right-of-way.
14:07:53 This is -- here's the edge of pavement.
14:07:56 So there's about 18 feet between the property line and
14:07:59 edge of pavement where the cars could pull up here,
14:08:01 probably a gate here, let the children through and
14:08:06 parents could stage here coming in and off of San

14:08:10 Miguel.
14:08:10 Obviously, they could park in the front on Thixton
14:08:10 Court.
14:08:10 I just don't think it's really practical because
14:08:10 Thixton is a dead end further to the south.
14:08:15 That's where the parking or the drop-off would be
14:08:19 staged.
14:08:19 The commercial building that the neighbor mentioned,
14:08:25 Ms. Mulhern, is immediately to the rear.
14:08:28 And it was a beauty salon and wig store, and that was
14:08:34 the commercial use he was referencing.
14:08:36 This property would have a tough time ever becoming
14:08:39 commercial in any stretch of the imagination.
14:08:43 >>MARY MULHERN: So you're saying they are going to
14:08:45 have to park on the residential streets, because
14:08:47 you're not providing any.
14:08:49 >> Yes.
14:08:50 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't see how you could with a house
14:08:51 and pool.
14:08:52 >> They are going to park on the right-of-way, but the
14:08:56 S-1 requirements do not have a specific culled out
14:09:00 requirement that individual paved parking must be

14:09:03 provided.
14:09:04 We are meeting the requirements that are in the S-1
14:09:08 under chapter 27-272.
14:09:11 The only requirement we cannot meet is the pool cannot
14:09:13 be more than 25% of the home.
14:09:17 Now, what was the rationale for doing that?
14:09:20 I think the rationale was, imagine a seamstress or a
14:09:26 lady who wanted to have a beauty salon in the back of
14:09:30 her home, they wanted to have that structure in
14:09:31 proportion with the home.
14:09:33 If you do the math, under code, the pool would have to
14:09:37 be no more than 5500 -- excuse me, 550 square feet,
14:09:41 which would be fine if it was a seamstress' building
14:09:47 that she had in the back of the house.
14:09:48 The pool is going to be a thousand square feet.
14:09:50 So they are about 500 square feet short.
14:09:54 That's the one requirement that we're asking you to
14:09:56 overrule.
14:09:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
14:09:59 I understand that.
14:10:00 I know that as a parent that you don't -- especially
14:10:03 when your children are young, you're going to stay

14:10:06 there with them at the swim lesson, especially if it's
14:10:09 shorter than half an hour.
14:10:11 I still don't feel like you've answered the parking
14:10:14 thing.
14:10:15 And I also think that there's a reason why we have
14:10:19 those restrictions.
14:10:21 And I guess maybe what I'd like to know is where are
14:10:24 they operating now?
14:10:25 They have an existing swim lesson, right?
14:10:30 >> I believe it's a guest quarter.
14:10:35 >>MARY MULHERN: Hotel with a pool?
14:10:37 Is that what it is?
14:10:38 Like a resident hotel?
14:10:53 >> This is Olena Lytvyn, my client.
14:10:57 >> Good afternoon, everyone.
14:10:58 Good afternoon.
14:11:03 Now boys girls club closed.
14:11:31 Right now they are working in the hotel.
14:12:08 >>MARY MULHERN: You are the instructor.
14:12:11 >> Yes.
14:12:12 >>MARY MULHERN: The only reason I asked that, I wanted
14:12:14 to know how you were handling the volume.

14:12:17 Private pools.
14:12:28 >> They move boys girls club.
14:12:31 In December and January, we are not working because
14:12:36 they close for remodeling.
14:12:39 We want to build our own pool.
14:12:45 Have lessons during the year.
14:12:47 Thank you.
14:12:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I ask a question, Mr. Chairman?
14:12:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, sir.
14:12:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Grandoff, is there anybody from
14:13:02 transportation here today?
14:13:03 I noticed that San Miguel right-of-way right from the
14:13:10 beginning, and there's a couple of palms, palm trees
14:13:14 and then 27-inch oak.
14:13:16 So we don't want to park close to the 27-inch oak, but
14:13:19 clearly, the palms are not as big a concern.
14:13:21 But my question is, is that -- well, is that a curb or
14:13:26 is it just a little dip?
14:13:30 >> It's not a curb --
14:13:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just grass or weeds or something.
14:13:34 I guess I'm wondering from transportation's
14:13:40 perspective, you know, how they would feel about the

14:13:44 use of that as sort of a de facto area.
14:13:50 And if transportation is okay with it, then maybe we
14:13:54 could condition the use or the construction of the
14:13:57 pool to not use the side street.
14:14:01 Thixton or whatever.
14:14:02 >> Thixton court.
14:14:03 Well, if you would like to continue the matter for
14:14:08 several weeks --
14:14:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Get a little input from
14:14:10 transportation on San Miguel.
14:14:12 >> Let you all think about it.
14:14:13 We're certainly fine with that if you'd like --
14:14:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Also, my last question.
14:14:18 Do they already own this house or just under contract?
14:14:21 >> Yes, they own the home.
14:14:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Too bad.
14:14:23 Council's pleasure, I'll suggest we continue this
14:14:31 until January for input from transportation staff.
14:14:37 And Mr. Grandoff can get with transportation.
14:14:39 In the meantime, and talk to them about the use of San
14:14:43 Miguel.
14:14:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: January is fine.

14:14:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Any suggestions?
14:14:51 I'm open.
14:14:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll second that motion.
14:14:55 >>GWEN MILLER: January the 8th.
14:14:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In the afternoon.
14:14:58 >> 1:30 agenda, January 8?
14:15:01 Okay.
14:15:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Have somebody from transportation.
14:15:08 >>MARY MULHERN: Should be aware that what we'll need
14:15:11 to see is where the parking will happen regardless of
14:15:13 what transportation is going to say.
14:15:17 I know that's part of it, but just keep that -- that's
14:15:21 really the question for us.
14:15:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Instead of having a quick answer,
14:15:24 Melanie, do you think you can work with John on this
14:15:26 and come back in January?
14:15:28 >>GWEN MILLER: She might know the answer.
14:15:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, maybe I won't like the
14:15:32 answer.
14:15:33 >> This is a residential use requesting a pool.
14:15:37 Residential, they can park on Thixton court.
14:15:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yeah, but the neighbors don't want

14:15:44 them to park on Thixton court and neither do we.
14:15:46 The point is, we'd like you to work with
14:15:48 Mr. Grandoff --
14:15:51 >> San Miguel --
14:15:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We're not keen on the use of
14:15:54 Thixton.
14:15:56 We want them to use San Miguel, which is what I'd like
14:15:59 you to work with -- code requires two parking places
14:16:03 for this property for residential.
14:16:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Maybe there's on-street parking
14:16:08 they can use.
14:16:08 You guys are all very creative.
14:16:15 We can figure it out.
14:16:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:16:17 There's a motion to continue to January the 8th at
14:16:20 1:30.
14:16:21 All in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.
14:16:24 Opposed?
14:16:25 >> Thank you for your time this afternoon.
14:16:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Maybe chat with the neighbors, too,
14:16:29 in the meantime.
14:16:31 >> We will do that.

14:16:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You know who they are now.
14:16:33 >> Yes, we will.
14:16:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I believe you have item
14:16:47 71.
14:16:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 71, Mr. Robertson.
14:16:58 Is Mr. Robinson here?
14:17:01 Item 71, when his plane lands, he's coming in.
14:17:06 >> Item 71, John Grandoff on behalf of William
14:17:10 Robinson at Citivest construction.
14:17:12 Mr. Robinson is en route on an airplane and asked that
14:17:15 we be continued until he arrives.
14:17:18 Arrives at City Council, and he'll wait his turn.
14:17:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The last item we have is TECO.
14:17:28 And he can be after that.
14:17:29 >> He should be here shortly.
14:17:37 >> Because that might be 8:00 tonight.
14:17:39 >> Well, that's how the process works.
14:17:40 If you can squeeze him in, he'd appreciate that, too.
14:17:46 Thank you.
14:17:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay then.
14:17:49 We need to open 89 and 90.
14:17:52 >> So moved.

14:17:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
14:17:57 Opposed?
14:18:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Because item 90 is not a public
14:18:05 hearing, but it is a resolution, do you want people to
14:18:11 discuss --
14:18:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: At the same time, they can address
14:18:15 both items.
14:18:16 Thank you for the clarification.
14:18:17 Mr. Fletcher, do you want to come and give us the
14:18:21 overview of where we are in terms of TECO franchise
14:18:25 agreement.
14:18:32 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14:18:34 Chip Fletcher, City Attorney.
14:18:36 We've been there a few times before on this issue.
14:18:40 Basically, I'll take a couple of minutes and refresh
14:18:43 your memory as to the scope of the franchise agreement
14:18:47 and then if I've heard you correctly, we are also
14:18:50 going to be discussing the McKay Bay agreement.
14:18:55 Basically, what you have before you is a document that
14:19:09 is both an ordinance and an agreement that would
14:19:12 implement a franchise agreement between the City of
14:19:15 Tampa and Tampa Electric Company.

14:19:18 It is an agreement for use and activity in the city's
14:19:25 rights-of-way.
14:19:26 It is a nonexclusive agreement meaning that it applies
14:19:32 to any electric providers that come to serve within
14:19:36 the city limits.
14:19:38 Presently, that is only the Tampa Electric Company but
14:19:41 should the market or the regulations in that regard
14:19:44 change, it would apply to any service provider within
14:19:48 the city limits.
14:19:49 The term of the agreement is for 25 years.
14:19:55 As I've mentioned previously, that was a negotiated
14:19:59 term.
14:19:59 The Tampa Electric Company asked for a 30-year term.
14:20:03 The city asked for a 20-year term and we reached a
14:20:10 compromise at 25 years.
14:20:11 The agreement provides for a continuation of the
14:20:17 existing franchise fee which is 4.6%.
14:20:21 It also provides for the ability of the city to
14:20:24 increase that franchise fee to 6%.
14:20:29 This was an issue of some discussion and compromise
14:20:33 between the city and Tampa Electric.
14:20:36 6% is considered the going rate.

14:20:40 Most other franchise agreements have a 6% rate.
14:20:43 And we would be able to increase to that rate during
14:20:45 the term of the agreement.
14:20:47 The scope of that franchise fee is also an issue that
14:20:53 was hotly debated, but we feel that we've got a very
14:20:56 good improvement in the definition of what is covered
14:21:01 on that franchise fee so that it covers both bundled
14:21:05 and unbundled facilities.
14:21:08 As you know, we're in the process of having a change
14:21:10 in the TECO tariff by the PSC.
14:21:16 And this agreement will allow us to continue to
14:21:18 essentially have the same franchise fee as that moves
14:21:23 forward and the same scope as that moves forward, even
14:21:26 though the structure of that agreement, of that tariff
14:21:29 is going to change.
14:21:32 This agreement ensures that the payments we receive
14:21:34 will not -- scope of the payments we receive will not
14:21:36 be altered significantly.
14:21:38 One issue that I had mentioned previously and part of
14:21:43 the reason this took so long to negotiate is that
14:21:49 there's some difference of opinion between the city
14:21:50 and Tampa Electric as to how this agreement should be

14:21:54 memorialized and codified.
14:21:57 Tampa Electric had wanted to be a contract city.
14:22:03 Believe it should be an ordinance, in my opinion, as
14:22:05 it does have to be an ordinance and what is before you
14:22:09 today is in the form of an ordinance.
14:22:11 That is what we will be asking you to approve today as
14:22:15 part of the second reading.
14:22:16 We have very broad access to Tampa Electric's records
14:22:20 to ensure that we are being paid the appropriate
14:22:23 franchise fee, and have an ability to conduct audits
14:22:27 in that regard.
14:22:29 We have the right to in the future as necessary change
14:22:34 our ordinances as necessary under our police power
14:22:38 provisions as indicated previously, this is an agreed
14:22:42 to document between the administration and Tampa
14:22:46 Electric.
14:22:47 It is not imposed by the city, but in many areas of
14:22:52 the agreement, it simply references the existing
14:22:55 ordinance of the city, including permitting for
14:22:59 right-of-ways and other types activities.
14:23:01 We reserve the right to amend those ordinances and
14:23:04 continue to have our police powers over the city's

14:23:07 rights-of-way under this agreement.
14:23:10 Tampa Electric also agrees to provide emergency
14:23:13 support.
14:23:15 For example, in response to a hurricane, they will be
14:23:18 dedicating six personnel to the city to comply and
14:23:22 achieve emergency response functions.
14:23:26 As I think we discussed previously, that is not all
14:23:28 the emergency response personnel that TECO will
14:23:31 mobilize within the city, but those are individuals
14:23:34 that are dedicated to work with our emergency response
14:23:37 and fire rescue personnel in the event of a major
14:23:43 disaster.
14:23:43 There's a provision for relocation of lines.
14:23:50 Under state law, they are obligated to pay all costs
14:23:53 associated with relocating facilities in the
14:23:56 rights-of-way when the city conducts public works such
14:23:59 as road widenings or other types of activities.
14:24:03 They will be responsible for recovering those costs
14:24:07 once per year under this agreement.
14:24:09 One of the other provisions is it does require the
14:24:13 city to comply with the national electric safety code
14:24:18 in the State of Florida, manuals for street, highway

14:24:23 and engineering requirements.
14:24:24 That's one of the other things that's included in here
14:24:29 that's a burden on the city to comply with those
14:24:32 requirements.
14:24:32 It also addresses tree trimming and maintenance and
14:24:37 tracks our existing code provision related to the
14:24:40 public utility following the ANSI A300 standards.
14:24:47 Those are the basic provisions of the agreement.
14:24:49 As we have mentioned previously, this is on use of the
14:24:57 rights-of-way.
14:24:58 Other things related to policy regarding rates and
14:25:01 sources of energy and other types of activities that
14:25:06 are regulated by the Public Service Commission and the
14:25:11 National Energy Regulatory Commission are outside the
14:25:14 scope of this agreement and are subject to state and
14:25:17 federal regulations.
14:25:19 That is the agreement before you today.
14:25:21 This is the second reading, and my recommendation is
14:25:25 for it to be approved today, and I will leave it to
14:25:28 you all to deliberate and reach your decision.
14:25:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can you articulate again today for us,
14:25:43 City Attorney, our role in terms of our scope as a

14:25:46 legislative body that in terms of negotiation that
14:25:49 this body -- well, I'll let you tell us, what we can
14:25:54 and what we cannot do.
14:25:56 Let me hear from you.
14:26:01 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: The city charter reserves to the
14:26:03 Mayor the sole responsibility for negotiating
14:26:06 agreements such as this franchise agreement.
14:26:09 However, it is only upon approval by this Council that
14:26:13 it can be executed and take effect.
14:26:16 It is in the form of an ordinance, so as we've
14:26:19 indicated, there were two readings.
14:26:22 We've previously had first reading.
14:26:23 This is second reading.
14:26:25 And it's a public hearing.
14:26:26 And it has been noticed as such.
14:26:28 So at this point, your role would be to either approve
14:26:33 it or reject it and send it back to the administration
14:26:39 for further action.
14:26:41 And that would be your two options in this regard.
14:26:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Does this contract preclude at any
14:26:51 point from going back and opening it back up should
14:26:54 new sources of energy become available and all that,

14:26:58 as we discussed?
14:26:59 Could you speak to that?
14:27:01 In the future, environmental standpoint, new sources
14:27:06 are available or whatever under the Obama
14:27:08 administration, does this ordinance, does this
14:27:08 contract, whichever one you want to refer to, preclude
14:27:14 from opening it back up and looking at it?
14:27:20 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: No.
14:27:21 It does have a reopener provision that if there's a
14:27:24 significant change of circumstance we would enter in
14:27:28 negotiations to address that issue.
14:27:31 The agreement is, in fact, silent on the sources of
14:27:34 energy that are used by Tampa Electric.
14:27:37 That is an area that is regulated primarily by the
14:27:41 Public Service Commission, but also by the National
14:27:44 Energy Regulatory Commission.
14:27:45 So if the national standards related to or the state
14:27:51 standards related to, for instance, a renewable energy
14:27:56 portfolio or other requirements, this agreement would
14:27:58 not stand in the way of those being implemented, nor
14:28:03 would they push forward those types of standards being
14:28:07 implemented.

14:28:08 In their wisdom, the Florida legislature has
14:28:10 determined that they should preempt local governments
14:28:14 from establishing standards in those areas.
14:28:16 And the policy reason for that is so that we don't
14:28:20 have conflicting standards between a state and local
14:28:24 or federal and local requirement.
14:28:26 So that is in a nutshell how this agreement would
14:28:30 address that.
14:28:31 In fact, it does not.
14:28:33 It is silent on those issues and does not preclude
14:28:37 development of power or transmission of power from any
14:28:40 source.
14:28:41 And it is nonexclusive.
14:28:43 So if power were generated within the city and
14:28:46 distributed under applicable state or federal
14:28:49 requirements, they would have the same requirements
14:28:52 and benefits that Tampa Electric Company would have.
14:28:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:28:57 One last question then.
14:28:59 Councilman Miranda and then Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
14:29:02 At our last meeting, there were a number of issues
14:29:06 from the Seminole Heights community that raised issue

14:29:08 about the tree trimming.
14:29:10 That's what I heard last time.
14:29:11 Could you assure us again that those issues based on
14:29:15 this ordinance and the administration that we have
14:29:20 full protection or at least something there that will
14:29:24 allow us to address the concerns and the issue of the
14:29:27 tree trimming relative to TECO.
14:29:30 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Well, essentially, the franchise
14:29:34 agreement as presently drafted tracks very closely our
14:29:38 ordinance related to tree trimming and tree
14:29:42 protection.
14:29:43 It cites the ANSI 300 standard, which is considered
14:29:51 basically an industry practice manual.
14:29:53 That is also referenced in our code.
14:29:58 The code and the franchise agreement requires
14:30:02 consultation with the Parks Department in this regard
14:30:05 and their foresters -- Tampa Electric's foresters are
14:30:09 to consult with the city's foresters regarding
14:30:13 trimming.
14:30:13 And that is to happen subject to the requirements of
14:30:16 the ANSI 300 standards.
14:30:20 In fact, those standards are violated, we have

14:30:23 enforcement opportunities in that regard, which would
14:30:27 include various different options either under the
14:30:29 franchise agreement or under the ordinance.
14:30:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda and Councilwoman
14:30:35 Saul-Sena.
14:30:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14:30:39 You alluded to six individuals that repair power
14:30:43 lines.
14:30:44 That was brought up in the meetings before, but it
14:30:47 wasn't six that are total responsible for the 660,000
14:30:52 customers, am I correct?
14:30:53 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: That is correct.
14:30:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Six of the S.A.R., which is search
14:30:58 and rescue.
14:30:59 Why six?
14:31:01 I am told because the city has six teams.
14:31:06 So in order not to risk the lives of the good people
14:31:09 who work in public service, firefighters, firemen,
14:31:11 people that work in public works that have to go in and
14:31:14 do such things, those individuals work with the six
14:31:18 teams of the city, one each.
14:31:20 Team up so that they can go in and cut the power, so

14:31:23 that no further damage or loss of life happens.
14:31:27 Am I correct?
14:31:27 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: That is absolutely correct.
14:31:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's all I want to say,
14:31:31 Mr. Chairman.
14:31:32 Since I see a lot of good people here wearing green, I
14:31:34 welcome you here.
14:31:35 To show you that I'm just as green as you, I'm
14:31:38 submitting my water bill, electric bill to the clerk.
14:31:41 I'm not asking for a vote.
14:31:42 Maybe you can ask the Council members to send you
14:31:46 theirs.
14:31:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
14:31:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Fletcher, just a
14:31:51 couple of quick questions.
14:31:53 Were you part of the two-year negotiation?
14:31:57 Three.
14:31:57 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I joined the city in July.
14:31:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Right.
14:32:01 This far predated your tenure as chief City Attorney.
14:32:04 And the person I think who is lead negotiator on the
14:32:07 city's behalf was Mr. Cloud, who is no longer with us.

14:32:11 So we don't have the city participants.
14:32:15 Mr. Zambow is here, but he was sort of on the McKay
14:32:19 Bay side of things.
14:32:21 The real question that you can't really answer because
14:32:23 you weren't here three years ago, three years ago when
14:32:26 they conversations began, the world was very different
14:32:30 in terms of energy.
14:32:31 There's a big difference between precluding something
14:32:38 and promoting it.
14:32:39 And my question is, was the idea of promoting a
14:32:44 variety of energy sources part of the conversation?
14:32:47 And secondly, aren't we allowed as a city, if we reach
14:32:53 agreement with Tampa Electric Company, to include
14:32:55 things in the franchise agreement that aren't
14:32:59 required?
14:33:00 If we agree to something, my understanding is, then it
14:33:03 can be included in the franchise agreement.
14:33:07 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: To kind of take the questions in
14:33:09 turn, Mr. Cloud and Mr. Smith, the previous City
14:33:16 Attorney, were the lead in negotiating this agreement.
14:33:18 Mr. Cloud was at the first reading we had.
14:33:23 He is not here today.

14:33:24 Mr. Zambow is here.
14:33:26 He is the one who reviewed the agreement to ensure we
14:33:29 would be able to do things like develop alternative
14:33:32 power supplies, energy supplies, self-supply city
14:33:36 facilities using renewable energy and those types of
14:33:39 things.
14:33:39 So I asked him to be present today so he could answer
14:33:42 questions in that regard.
14:33:43 There is a difference between promoting renewable
14:33:50 energy and not precluding it.
14:33:52 What this agreement does, it does not preclude it.
14:33:55 It does not include any provisions that speak to that.
14:34:01 It is focused on the use of the right-of-ways, not
14:34:05 where the power comes from.
14:34:07 Partly in the fact that it is silent on those issues
14:34:11 is where we have the ability to under state and
14:34:15 federal law go forward and generate power,
14:34:18 self-supply, sell back to TECO or market on a
14:34:24 wholesale basis.
14:34:25 So we have reviewed it.
14:34:27 We have looked at that.
14:34:28 We have those provisions in place.

14:34:32 We're confident we have that legal authority under
14:34:35 this agreement it does not promote renewable energy in
14:34:41 a specific sense.
14:34:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If the two sides agreed on an
14:34:51 issue, couldn't it be included in the franchise
14:34:52 agreement?
14:34:53 Of course, understanding that the PSC would have to
14:34:55 bless it, but that the real issue is that we can't
14:35:03 force Tampa Electric Company to do some things, if in
14:35:05 their enlightened self-interest, they recognize it
14:35:08 would be the best for the community as well as their
14:35:09 own bottom line to include something, they certainly
14:35:12 would be able to do that in concert with the city as a
14:35:15 partner.
14:35:17 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: They could.
14:35:18 The question would be how enforceable that would be,
14:35:20 it would be subject to Public Service Commission
14:35:22 review, and the one case that I spoke about
14:35:24 previously, the Seminole County case was an instance
14:35:27 in which there was from my understanding of history
14:35:30 and agreement on an issue related to undergrounding

14:35:32 but ultimately they objected to that and it was found
14:35:35 to be invalid.
14:35:36 So my recommendation at the council's pleasure was to
14:35:41 move forward with something in that regard was to do
14:35:44 it as two separate agreements so we have strong
14:35:47 enforceability on the core of the franchise agreement
14:35:49 and that we had whatever those other voluntary
14:35:53 commitments TECO made in the separate agreement.
14:35:57 That would be my recommendation in that regard.
14:36:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Miller.
14:36:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Fletcher, I know you weren't on the
14:36:07 beginning of the agreement two years ago but when you
14:36:09 got here did they bring you up to date on what was
14:36:12 going on?
14:36:12 And what part did you do after you got here to help
14:36:15 the agreement?
14:36:18 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I spent quite a bit of time
14:36:19 reviewing the correspondence and the franchise
14:36:23 agreements of other localities in the state and within
14:36:25 Tampa Electric's service area.
14:36:29 And at that point the primary outstanding issues were
14:36:34 what I would call the scope of the application of the

14:36:37 franchise agreement.
14:36:39 And I spent significant amount of time negotiating
14:36:43 that language and that section 5 of the agreement has
14:36:45 changed significantly from the prior version that you
14:36:50 all had received.
14:36:51 And what we achieved there was more clarity on what
14:36:57 the obligation to pay the franchise fee, how that's
14:37:03 defined and calculated, and assurance that it will
14:37:06 continue to be paid regardless of the change in how
14:37:09 the tariff is structured that's approved by the Public
14:37:14 Service Commission.
14:37:16 There is the issue of bundled services and when they
14:37:18 become unbundled and whether or not we could continue
14:37:21 to receive the franchise payment on those unbundled
14:37:23 services, and we have clarity now in the agreement
14:37:27 that that will continue, and we felt that was a
14:37:33 benefit.
14:37:34 We also negotiated at length regarding the city's
14:37:37 ability to self-supply and we'll power and other types
14:37:52 of things of power generated by the city.
14:37:55 It the no, sir uncommon for a franchise agreement to
14:37:57 have what you might call a noncompete provision where

14:38:00 the city agrees not to compete with utility.
14:38:03 We do not have a restriction on the city's ability in
14:38:11 this agreement to. Get those more explicit provisions
14:38:14 that we were pursuing related to self-supplying and
14:38:18 self-wheeling, and wheeling in wholesale supply, we
14:38:22 were asked to make some changes that in my view
14:38:26 amounted to a prohibition on competition, and we in
14:38:31 our view felt that was not a beneficial trade for the
14:38:35 city, and so we withdrew that position and went back
14:38:40 to the language that is there presently before you and
14:38:43 was in the agreement that was sent to you previously
14:38:48 earlier this year.
14:38:50 89 thank you.
14:38:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder, Councilwoman
14:38:53 Mary Mulhern.
14:38:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think Mary had her hand up first.
14:38:56 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
14:38:58 I'll probably be quicker.
14:39:00 [ Laughter ]
14:39:01 Though I don't know, the longer I wait, the more
14:39:04 questions I get.
14:39:05 Chip, I was going to ask you, in your answer to Mrs.

14:39:12 Saul-Sena's question, you said that you see an
14:39:14 agreement between us and TECO regarding any kind of
14:39:20 renewable energy production as a separate agreement.
14:39:24 So my question for you is whether other municipalities
14:39:28 that have created these kinds of contracts with a
14:39:33 private utility provider, electric provider?
14:39:38 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I'm not aware of municipality or
14:39:40 county in Florida that has an agreement of that nature
14:39:46 as a separate agreement.
14:39:47 And I'm also not aware of one that has it in a
14:39:50 franchise agreement.
14:39:53 >>MARY MULHERN: But you would be willing to draft that
14:39:55 for us?
14:39:57 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If that is the direction that
14:40:01 council would like to request that the administration
14:40:03 proceed on this issue.
14:40:06 My recommendation would be to have it as a separate
14:40:08 agreement, because there has been demonstrated cases
14:40:15 related to the enforceability in a franchise
14:40:18 agreement, and I would rather not have the issue arise
14:40:21 regarding enforceability in the franchise agreement.
14:40:23 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.

14:40:25 So this is what we are faced with.
14:40:26 And I'm saying this for all the people here, and my
14:40:32 colleagues, too, that we have been grasping at some
14:40:37 way to promote more renewable energy.
14:40:42 And I don't think that TECO is not intending and
14:40:45 wanting to do this.
14:40:47 But the reason that we are interested in including in
14:40:52 the franchise agreement is because we have no other
14:40:56 way to do this.
14:40:58 So those of us, I believe, who are hesitant to agree
14:41:03 to the current agreement, this is what we have.
14:41:08 And we personally don't have the time to do the
14:41:11 research.
14:41:12 And perhaps in Florida we don't have anyone doing
14:41:16 this, but perhaps we could find out if there are
14:41:21 elsewhere and investigate what we could do.
14:41:25 This has been in the works for three years, the
14:41:28 negotiation that was going on before you started, and
14:41:33 there's not a whole lot difference in this agreement
14:41:36 from what we saw three years ago.
14:41:38 And while I agree with Linda that our energy future
14:41:41 looks different from three years ago, I think a lot of

14:41:44 us three years ago were also ready for more renewable
14:41:48 energy, and wanting to see us going in that direction.
14:41:51 So I just want to be clear that if we have no other
14:42:00 Avenue, that's why we are looking into the franchise
14:42:04 agreement.
14:42:04 I don't think any of us doesn't understand that that
14:42:07 isn't generally part of the franchise agreement.
14:42:12 So that's the way I'm looking at it.
14:42:14 And I just want the audience to know that, too,
14:42:17 because I don't think that there are a lot of people
14:42:19 here who want to speak, and I think that we are pretty
14:42:22 well versed on all these issues.
14:42:24 So unless you have something new to tell us, we pretty
14:42:31 much, you know, know what's going on as far as what we
14:42:34 can do that's renewable.
14:42:38 So for all of our sakes.
14:42:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
14:42:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14:42:46 It's an interesting conundrum that we find ourselves
14:42:51 in.
14:42:51 We have a franchise agreement, I think it's item 89.
14:42:57 We have got a MacKay Bay agreement that's item 90.

14:43:03 And then we have a potential sort of phantom third
14:43:06 agreement that you have alluded to a few times.
14:43:08 And the third agreement, as you said, in your legal
14:43:13 opinion, which I respect, been an attorney a long
14:43:18 time, might include some of these other issues about
14:43:21 sustainability, renewable energy, undergrounding,
14:43:24 et cetera, et cetera, and in your opinion that's the
14:43:26 best place for these types of issues.
14:43:29 We have received a memo, and everybody, the press has
14:43:33 reported it, that the mayor wants to create a citizens
14:43:35 task force with many of these people I'm sure in the
14:43:39 audience to work with TECO to address these "other
14:43:43 issues" that you say shouldn't be in the franchise
14:43:46 agreement.
14:43:47 And maybe that's a reasonable compromise and
14:43:50 reasonable solution.
14:43:51 The only part of the mayor's memorandum off that I
14:43:55 don't understand -- and I'm asking you this from a
14:43:58 legal perspective -- is there any legal reason why we
14:44:01 should rush into this franchise agreement today?
14:44:04 Why don't we set it aside for six months or so, and
14:44:09 let the mayor do her magic with the citizens and TECO,

14:44:13 and work on that third agreement to address some of
14:44:15 those issues?
14:44:19 We all say that we shouldn't be touching them in the
14:44:21 franchise agreement.
14:44:22 So let's just stick the franchise agreement aside,
14:44:26 which is something frankly Mrs. Saul-Sena brought up a
14:44:28 month ago, stick it aside for six months, and let this
14:44:32 other process play out, okay?
14:44:37 And in the meantime, we have been operating without a
14:44:39 franchise agreement for a couple of years, and I'm
14:44:43 sure an additional six months isn't going to make a
14:44:45 whole lot of difference.
14:44:46 If somebody decides to take us to court, the courts
14:44:48 don't even operate that fast.
14:44:50 We all know that, too.
14:44:52 So I want to hear -- I want to hear everybody's
14:44:58 opinion today.
14:44:58 We have got all afternoon set aside to do it.
14:45:01 But I think at the end of the day that that would be a
14:45:05 wonderful decision.
14:45:06 I was really, really pleased to hear that the mayor
14:45:08 wants to get engaged on these issues in the form of

14:45:12 this third agreement.
14:45:13 But I don't think there's any legal reason that we
14:45:15 have to move forward today with the franchise
14:45:17 agreement.
14:45:18 If you want to do the MacKay Bay agreement because you
14:45:20 say that's a separate agreement and that's the benefit
14:45:22 of everybody, and that's a good deal, fine, do MacKay
14:45:26 Bay and let's get that one over W.but in terms of the
14:45:30 franchise agreement, I think we should leave it alone
14:45:32 for now.
14:45:32 That's just my opinion.
14:45:34 [ Applause ]
14:45:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
14:45:41 Let's hold it down.
14:45:42 All right, thank you.
14:45:44 I think you need to speak to the question, and that is
14:45:47 the question --
14:45:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is there a legal reason we need to
14:45:52 move forward today?
14:45:53 >>> There's really, I think, a three-part answer to
14:45:56 that.
14:45:57 In my opinion the case that sits most directly on

14:46:00 point is the Winter Park case and that holds that TECO
14:46:03 would still have to pay our franchise fee as a
14:46:06 holdover tenant.
14:46:07 And that is the case that we would proceed with.
14:46:09 And I believe that's the controlling legal authority.
14:46:12 As you might imagine, TECO doesn't agree with that
14:46:15 position.
14:46:16 And it is very -- it is a reasonable likelihood that
14:46:21 as you alluded to we would end up in court on that
14:46:24 issue.
14:46:24 There are some other Florida Supreme Court cases that
14:46:27 could -- they could argue, reach a different
14:46:31 conclusion.
14:46:33 And that would be the risks that they would declare
14:46:37 and impasse and that we would go that route.
14:46:42 Having gone through a few of these issues related to
14:46:45 our ability to produce power, independently, and other
14:46:51 experience, I'm not optimistic that at the end of the
14:46:54 six months we are going to be in a significantly
14:46:56 different place than we are today, quite frankly.
14:47:01 Whether that mitigates in favor of the extension or
14:47:03 against the extension, I would let you all reach a

14:47:06 conclusion on that.
14:47:07 But I'm not optimistic that we would end up with
14:47:12 significant progress on these other issues, quite
14:47:15 frankly.
14:47:17 But that would be up to TECO to decide N.any event, it
14:47:20 would have to be an agreement.
14:47:21 It would have to be something that both of us would
14:47:23 agree to.
14:47:24 And not that it's insurmountable complication, but the
14:47:30 complication is that there are service areas larger
14:47:33 than the city and we would need to resolve how or if
14:47:36 there would be treatment within the city different
14:47:39 than residents outside of the city.
14:47:40 Those are the different things we would have to work
14:47:43 through which is one of the reasons I think it would
14:47:44 be better to have it as a separate agreement.
14:47:47 So to answer your question, it would be my advice to
14:47:51 move forward today with it because of the risk of
14:47:53 litigation.
14:47:54 But I don't believe that their position is a strong
14:47:58 position, or that it would be an issue that we would
14:48:01 not prevail on.

14:48:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Perhaps six months from now if we
14:48:05 are back here, we could set the hearing today for six
14:48:08 months from now, let's say June, and I think they
14:48:10 would be on pretty bad grounds to go into court in
14:48:13 February or March and say, they are not moving forward
14:48:16 in good faith.
14:48:17 Excuse me, your Honor, we have a second public hearing
14:48:19 in June scheduled.
14:48:20 I mean, that just seems to be a very reasonable
14:48:23 position on the part of the city.
14:48:24 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: That is the argument we would
14:48:27 make.
14:48:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14:48:32 I do not play to that tune.
14:48:33 But then again sometimes I'm always by myself.
14:48:38 You are the city attorney.
14:48:39 I didn't higher you.
14:48:41 The administration hired you as the best qualified.
14:48:43 We approved you.
14:48:44 Am I correct?
14:48:45 >>> That's correct, sir.
14:48:46 >> You have given us two instances here, one of your

14:48:49 opinion that in six months from now or a year from now
14:48:52 this agreement is not really going to change, because
14:48:55 you read the documents, you know your predecessor, you
14:48:58 spoke to Mr. Smith, you understand the other gentleman
14:49:01 that came over from Orlando will more than likely --
14:49:05 we paid 50, 100, $200,000.
14:49:09 I'm not even going to ask you the question.
14:49:10 We could have built two houses for those that need
14:49:13 houses.
14:49:13 But we just threw the money out.
14:49:16 That's number one.
14:49:17 Number two, you have told us time and time and time
14:49:20 and time again that our responsibility deals with one
14:49:24 issue, and that issue, ladies and gentlemen, is a
14:49:31 right-of-way.
14:49:31 I wish I could tell you that I hold some responsible
14:49:33 position with the Public Service Commission regarding
14:49:36 rates.
14:49:36 I don't.
14:49:36 I wish I could tell you that I am going to do all the
14:49:39 undergrounding.
14:49:41 I can't.

14:49:41 However, me saying that, anyone in this city, anyone
14:49:47 that wants to get within a city block or two city
14:49:51 blocks or ten neighbors or whatever who wants
14:49:53 underground certainly has the right to underground,
14:49:56 and I welcome for you to do it.
14:49:58 You can ask TECO for a price, or you can get your own
14:50:01 price from other individual sources that do that type
14:50:04 of work.
14:50:05 And I commend you for that.
14:50:06 In fact, not too long ago when there was the question
14:50:10 about -- I forget the name of the street, I think it
14:50:13 was Neptune but I'm not sure at the end, remember that
14:50:15 alcove with a water and they wanted to take the
14:50:18 right-of-way?
14:50:19 I went to visit that.
14:50:20 I noticed one thing changed.
14:50:22 When I approached the turn, I saw no more electric
14:50:25 poles.
14:50:27 There was about 10 or 12 neighbors who I guess wanted
14:50:29 to do undergrounding, and all the electricity is
14:50:32 underground.
14:50:33 I commend them for that.

14:50:35 Just recently, TECO did some work around where I live,
14:50:40 and they did it because of the same St. Joseph
14:50:44 hospital trauma 2 center.
14:50:45 I don't know how many feet it was.
14:50:47 I asked TECO later but I asked TECO to give me a
14:50:51 report.
14:50:51 I don't know where to find this information.
14:50:53 I'll be very sincere with you.
14:50:54 The cost they gave was $317,200, I think it was, and
14:51:00 they did this so that the wind velocity, so that some
14:51:05 electricity to the hospital wouldn't be interrupted,
14:51:11 to wind force of 135 miles per hour.
14:51:14 Now, what is the cost to have the same footage done on
14:51:21 an area that they did -- they did it more than a
14:51:23 street -- for undergrounding?
14:51:25 And if they had done that, who was going to pay for
14:51:27 it?
14:51:28 It not going to be me.
14:51:31 And it is going to be me because it's going to be
14:51:34 included in the rate.
14:51:34 So I'm not against undergrounding.
14:51:36 Anybody can underground.

14:51:39 Form a little committee.
14:51:40 Pick up your money and go do it.
14:51:43 That's what I heard.
14:51:44 Am I correct?
14:51:46 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: That is correct.
14:51:48 You could pay -- individual property owners can pay
14:51:51 for that, individuals as a group.
14:51:53 >> I heard it runs about $400 a foot.
14:51:59 >>> I can't speak to that number particularly, but in
14:52:01 my experience with utilities -- and I've represented a
14:52:04 number of local governments related to utility
14:52:07 issues -- there was also significant different of
14:52:10 opinion as to the value of undergrounding and the
14:52:13 safety in that regard.
14:52:14 >> So here we have the city attorney telling us, the
14:52:17 elected official, telling us where our parameters are.
14:52:21 The other day I was at a meeting, I think it was
14:52:23 Monday night.
14:52:24 I was at a meeting of the democratic committee.
14:52:27 Why did I do go?
14:52:29 Because I got chosen to represent precinct 219.
14:52:33 I walked out of the meeting when a council member went

14:52:35 up there and started asking the crowd to come here
14:52:37 today to speak against TECO.
14:52:39 That wasn't bad enough.
14:52:41 But I realize as I was going to the mike to speak that
14:52:44 if I had spoke on that night, see all these TV cameras
14:52:49 and the newspapers?
14:52:50 I would have been Headline News.
14:52:51 Now why, Mr. City attorney?
14:52:55 >>> I suspect we would have a sunshine law issue.
14:52:58 >> That's exactly right.
14:52:59 So I walked out instead of staying there.
14:53:02 My tongue was bleeding because I couldn't speak but I
14:53:04 walked out like a gentleman.
14:53:06 So there's two sides to every issue.
14:53:08 I don't look at just one.
14:53:09 I look at both sides.
14:53:10 All the good people here are green.
14:53:13 I can see it.
14:53:15 I'm green.
14:53:16 Everything that I do to my house, I do to every
14:53:21 residential property that I own.
14:53:23 I put on a new roof, new windows, and now I am going

14:53:27 to change everything I can, and if I get solar in my
14:53:29 house, my rental properties are going to get solar.
14:53:32 I treat everybody equal like I do in my family.
14:53:36 That's how I think and that's exactly how I vote.
14:53:40 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14:53:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Now we will hear from the public.
14:53:43 We'll take public testimony.
14:53:44 Those who wish to address council, you have three
14:53:46 minutes.
14:53:48 Now, let me just say, as you come to the mike, you
14:53:50 have three minutes.
14:53:53 When the buzzer sounds, your time is up.
14:53:57 I want to be clear.
14:54:00 Don't ask for another minute.
14:54:01 Don't ask for two or three more minutes.
14:54:04 Your time will be up because we have a lot of people
14:54:06 that want to address us.
14:54:07 Plus you actually get about three and a half minutes,
14:54:14 the buzzer actually gives you about 30 more minutes.
14:54:17 So what we'll do as you come and speak, state your
14:54:19 name and address for the record and you have three
14:54:21 minutes.

14:54:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chair, just a point of order
14:54:24 and procedure.
14:54:28 I see TECO folks --
14:54:30 I am going to let them speak last.
14:54:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, my question is, this isn't
14:54:36 just about all the opponents should speak first and
14:54:40 then the proponents should speak fast?
14:54:46 Often in this chamber we try to alternate so if TECO
14:54:49 brought folks -- if they are just going to have one
14:54:53 speaker and they want the last word those fine.
14:54:54 But if there are numerous people who are here in favor
14:54:57 of TECO's position, then maybe we should alternate,
14:55:00 what we often do.
14:55:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:55:02 That's fine.
14:55:03 Fine.
14:55:03 >> Other winds it ends up --
14:55:06 >>GWEN MILLER: In that case you need to put one on one
14:55:08 side and those on the other side.
14:55:10 Those for on this side.
14:55:11 Those against over here. If you are for, go over to
14:55:13 my right.

14:55:14 If you are for, go to the right.
14:55:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And I have allowed TECO to address
14:55:19 last, so that they can address any concerns that the
14:55:23 residents or the citizens bring up, so they will have
14:55:26 opportunity to address it.
14:55:27 That's the reason for that.
14:55:28 Okay?
14:55:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's fine.
14:55:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, go ahead.
14:55:32 Yes, ma'am.
14:55:34 >>> C.J. Reynold, 1204 east Creston street in Tampa.
14:55:39 My franchise fee is 4.9% so I hope the city is
14:55:42 checking its books well.
14:55:44 It actually not 4.6%.
14:55:46 And this is the green that I am interested in on
14:55:49 behalf of the city as we talk today.
14:55:52 You will hear new things from me as well as many of
14:55:54 the other citizens and professionals and experts in
14:55:57 business areas that we have not addressed that we will
14:55:59 address.
14:56:00 Unfortunately, our attorney could not be here today,
14:56:02 but we will speak specifically to legal terms in the

14:56:05 franchise agreement.
14:56:06 And I have just handed you my comments in full legal
14:56:10 text regarding specifically section 10, approval of
14:56:13 transfer.
14:56:14 At the first hearing, John Dingfelder asked if the
14:56:18 agreement had a buyout clause to allow the city to
14:56:21 create a Mu nice reply owned utility in the future.
14:56:24 When asked why this clause was not included Tom
14:56:27 Fernandez vice-president much TECO said TECO did not
14:56:30 plan to sell.
14:56:31 Section 10 transfer contradicts this.
14:56:34 Section 10 specifically gives TECO the right to enter
14:56:36 into a lease, sale, merger, transaction without
14:56:40 interference within the city.
14:56:41 So I ask you, does it seem possible, therefore the
14:56:45 contract should include a right of first refusal, a
14:56:51 vision that would give the city the right to buy
14:56:54 TECO's system when TECO decides to sell it.
14:56:57 The clause would require TECO to notify the city first
14:57:00 and give time to make an offer for lease or acquire
14:57:04 assets on an economic and financial comparable terms
14:57:07 that any potential merger, partner, or acquiring

14:57:11 company could offer.
14:57:13 34 cities in Florida own their own utility systems.
14:57:16 They provide tremendously valuable programs for their
14:57:19 residents.
14:57:20 They generate a profit for the city.
14:57:21 Those that do not choose, do not generate much profit
14:57:25 for their city, choose to do so to keep their prices
14:57:28 low for their citizens.
14:57:30 Tampa is as competent as the people who live in
14:57:33 Orlando and Jacksonville and Gainesville.
14:57:36 And as a business person you know that any
14:57:39 acquisition, you tend to keep the best management and
14:57:42 operational employees around.
14:57:44 You don't throw them out with the bath water.
14:57:46 So to clarify, section 10 should have a first right of
14:57:50 refusal in it.
14:57:51 It is not included.
14:57:53 It cannot be added after the franchise agreement if
14:57:55 you approve it today.
14:57:57 And it is allowed by state laws and the POC.
14:58:01 So although we cannot predict the city's financial
14:58:03 future while we have the means to afford this, we

14:58:05 don't know, but we certainly can predict that this
14:58:07 agreement as it stand today's would unduly restrict
14:58:11 our future opportunity from controlling our own energy
14:58:14 destiny for the next 25 years.
14:58:16 So please oppose this.
14:58:17 Thank you for listening.
14:58:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Don't.
14:58:27 If you will hold your applause, please.
14:58:29 Next speaker.
14:58:30 >> I hope by standing on the left side of this room
14:58:32 doesn't mean that I am not green, because I'm hoping
14:58:34 that we are all green here, given the state of the
14:58:39 global economy and where we are.
14:58:41 Anyway, my name is Andrea Graham and I am the
14:58:44 president of the board of stage works theater.
14:58:47 And we are proud to be a partner with TECO in the
14:58:49 development of a play about energy conservation that
14:58:54 is touring the schools as we speak.
14:58:57 The play is geared towards third and fifth graders,
14:59:00 third through fifth grade, and this year we will be
14:59:03 reaching 30 classrooms or 30 audiences, next year
14:59:07 another 50, and within the next three years, we hope

14:59:10 to reach every third, fourth and fifth grader to talk
14:59:14 about energy conservation.
14:59:17 Working with the arts council, they have booked the
14:59:20 shows in the Hillsborough County school system.
14:59:23 We applaud TECO for its recognition in the importance
14:59:27 of teaching our youngsters about energy conservation.
14:59:31 We are also grateful that they recognize the power
14:59:35 that theater can have, and the role that theater can
14:59:37 play in teaching our children and our adults about
14:59:41 energy conservation.
14:59:44 Also, in the nearly 30 years that I have been here,
14:59:47 and involved in the arts community, TECO has always
14:59:50 been a leader, not only in energy conservation but
14:59:53 also in the arts.
14:59:55 We look forward to a very long and effective lasting
14:59:58 relationship with TECO.
15:00:00 Thank you very much.
15:00:04 >>> Good afternoon members of City Council.
15:00:06 My name is Noel Schiller.
15:00:10 Professor at University of South Florida, concerned
15:00:13 citizen, 1334 Alicia Avenue.
15:00:15 I would like to speak today specifically about the

15:00:18 notification of expansion or installation of new
15:00:21 transmission facilities, and substations.
15:00:25 Currently, section 3 of the franchise agreement
15:00:28 granted authority does not sell out the permitting
15:00:33 requirements very clearly in terms of when TECO will
15:00:38 move into neighborhoods, select neighborhoods, and
15:00:42 rights-of-way for putting in new power lines and
15:00:45 substations.
15:00:47 We all remember how expensive for the county the
15:00:50 litigation was surrounding Egypt lake a number of
15:00:54 years ago, and we also remember that in a matter of
15:00:57 days there were power lines that had supports about as
15:01:03 big as this podium.
15:01:08 250 lines.
15:01:09 These also we know really diminish the value of real
15:01:12 estate when they go up suddenly in someone's backyard,
15:01:15 which they were allowed to as right-of-way.
15:01:18 What we are asking the City Council to do northbound
15:01:23 reevaluating the franchise agreement is to use good
15:01:26 language that will simply add contractual language
15:01:32 that will be included to address the process of how
15:01:36 this city grants these permits, so that there is some

15:01:39 oversight.
15:01:41 What happens usually in these cases is that it is
15:01:44 economically at-risk neighborhoods, where these
15:01:48 substations tend to be located, where citizens have no
15:01:54 moneys for the $400 per foot to underground them, and
15:01:58 have little time in their days to schedule an entire
15:02:02 afternoon for hearings.
15:02:04 So --
15:02:14 Ma'am, you have to speak into the mikes.
15:02:16 Thank you.
15:02:18 >>> I just passed out copies of additional language
15:02:20 for the existing franchise agreement that we would
15:02:22 like to recommend and promote, specifically what it
15:02:27 does is it asks that TECO agree to notify the city by
15:02:32 letter, and the letter should be addressed to the city
15:02:38 attorney and city manager of any plans that it has to
15:02:40 expand existing transmission facilities or substations
15:02:43 or the construction of new facilities or substations.
15:02:50 We also ask that language be included that would give
15:02:52 the city 180 days notice before it applies for any
15:03:00 state or local permits to construct said facility or
15:03:03 lines, and we desire that consideration be made for

15:03:07 the location as well as real good faith efforts to
15:03:13 install these substations and lines with minimum
15:03:18 adverse impacts.
15:03:20 Because we do know that they tend to inordinately
15:03:26 impact those who have the most at-risk neighborhoods
15:03:30 already.
15:03:31 And we can look around.
15:03:33 So in the event that TECO does not give requisite 80
15:03:38 days advance written notice, or in the event that
15:03:40 Tampa Electric --
15:03:42 (Bell sounds)
15:03:44 Thank you.
15:03:47 >>> Jeffrey math, 1024 south Sterling Avenue.
15:03:52 And I am