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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
DECEMBER 11, 2008
5:01 P.M.

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>>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
order.
17:09:46:09 We'll have roll call.
17:09:49:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
17:09:51:13 >> Dingfelder?
17:09:52:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
17:09:53:22 >> Saul-Sena?
17:09:54:28 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Here.
17:09:56:12 >> Mulhern?
17:09:57:22 >> And Scott.
17:09:58:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
17:09:58:25 It is my understanding that councilman John Dingfelder
17:10:01:10 will not be here tonight.
17:10:02:18 Due to illness.
17:10:05:00 That's what I've been informed.

17:10:06:21 I want to state that for the record.
17:10:08:09 We have an issue that we need to cover from this
17:10:14:15 morning.
17:10:15:00 I'm going to ask the City Attorney, Chip Fletcher to
17:10:17:27 come.
17:10:19:28 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Chip
17:10:22:00 Fletcher, City Attorney.
17:10:23:10 Just to follow up on our meeting this morning, our
17:10:27:25 recommendation is that we schedule the small scale plan
17:10:32:09 amendment that we discussed previously, PA05-31 and the
17:10:40:09 rezoning Z07-94 for the first hearing on the 15th and
17:10:50:06 the second hearing on the 29th.
17:10:53:06 We'd like to be able to complete that process by the
17:10:55:25 end of January.
17:10:56:28 Those would both be meetings during times you're
17:11:01:04 already here, but special Council meetings on both of
17:11:06:01 those days.
17:11:08:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Chairman, I move the resolution.
17:11:10:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
17:11:11:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
17:11:13:01 Seconded by Councilman Miranda.
17:11:15:07 All in favor of the resolution, signify by aye.
17:11:17:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, just so the record is clear,
17:11:20:16 that resolution relates to PA05-31, to set it for
17:11:23:00 January 15th, 2009, at 10 a.m. as a special session of

17:11:27:01 Council and January 29th, 2009 at 9:30 a.m. also a
17:11:31:00 special session, usually that's during the workshop
17:11:33:13 day.
17:11:35:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
17:11:36:24 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We would like to entertain a second
17:11:39:22 motion to set the rezoning hearing as well immediately
17:11:42:03 following the hearing on the plan amendment.
17:11:44:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to move to
17:11:46:15 schedule the companion rezoning file Z07-94, for
17:11:47:25 January 15th, 2009 at 10 a.m., and the January 29, 2009
17:11:53:27 at 9:30 a.m. to be heard immediately following
17:11:57:01 consideration of the above-referenced small scale plan
17:11:59:18 amendment.
17:11:59:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
17:12:02:00 Seconded by Councilman Miranda.
17:12:03:21 All in favor of the motion, signify by aye.
17:12:06:16 So moved.
17:12:08:21 >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
17:12:09:27 As part of that motion, I believe what will happen, the
17:12:12:12 Land Development Coordination will do the paperwork
17:12:14:12 necessary to get the information to the clerk's office
17:12:17:13 to allow them the publication process.
17:12:25:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
17:12:26:09 We'll move to 5:01.
17:12:27:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open public hearings one

17:12:29:15 through eight.
17:12:30:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, aye.
17:12:31:06 [Motion Carried]
17:12:31:27 Okay.
17:12:32:27 Thank you.
17:12:33:07 We'll take up item number 1 at this time.
17:12:35:28 Staff?
17:12:44:03 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Abbye Feeley, Land Development
17:12:45:07 Coordination I'm here on behalf of Catherine Coyle, the
17:12:47:24 zoning administrator, this evening.
17:12:49:12 This is a privately initiated text amendment, and the
17:12:52:27 petitioner, Dave Mechanik is here to speak to the
17:12:56:06 request.
17:12:56:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Mechanik.
17:12:58:22 >> Good evening.
17:12:59:15 My name is David Mechanik, 305 South Boulevard, Tampa,
17:13:04:00 Florida.
17:13:04:10 This amendment is requested on -- I'm sorry, I
17:13:07:27 represent Tampa Westshore Associates, which is the
17:13:10:09 owner of International Plaza.
17:13:12:27 And we had requested a text amendment to allow for the
17:13:17:03 administrative approval of alcoholic beverage sales
17:13:20:06 within malls, which the genesis behind that is to avoid
17:13:26:15 the multiplicity of so many public wet zoning hearings,
17:13:31:24 especially when, for the most part, or in the case of

17:13:35:09 International Plaza, we've never had anyone appear to
17:13:38:12 oppose or express any concern regarding those
17:13:42:21 petitions.
17:13:43:06 So with that, I'd be happy to answer any questions you
17:13:47:21 might have.
17:13:49:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?
17:13:54:00 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Would Westshore mall be included in
17:13:56:27 the administrative hearing?
17:13:58:01 >> Yes, sir.
17:13:58:12 The language includes a large-scale shopping center of
17:14:03:06 500,000 feet, which actually only includes those two
17:14:06:25 malls in the city.
17:14:07:18 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: In the past, when we've had hearings
17:14:10:06 for Westshore, I know there's been a lot of opposition.
17:14:13:04 Do the people have the right to go to those hearings?
17:14:15:15 Or those administrative hearings?
17:14:18:15 >> Well, no, because they would not be advertised
17:14:21:00 hearings.
17:14:22:12 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Okay.
17:14:23:00 All right.
17:14:23:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, are we speaking about
17:14:25:22 both of the malls that Mr. Caetano mentioned now or one
17:14:29:12 of them?
17:14:29:27 >> It would include both.
17:14:31:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The reason I ask that, certain malls

17:14:33:28 have different criteria of modes of operation.
17:14:39:09 The mall -- and I'm not against the basic principles of
17:14:42:24 this, but the International Mall, the only residents
17:14:49:19 they have are the 747s as they take passengers in and
17:14:53:27 out.
17:14:54:07 There is visibly no residential neighborhood, am I
17:14:56:24 correct?
17:14:58:10 >> That's -- well, there's Carver City and Lincoln
17:15:01:06 gardens on the opposite side.
17:15:03:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: They are on the opposite side of the
17:15:06:01 street.
17:15:06:16 You have to cross a three-lane road on both sides.
17:15:09:04 That's six lanes of traffic.
17:15:12:04 In other words, the modus of operation of the mall is
17:15:16:07 to close at 12:00 at night.
17:15:20:18 I don't want something coming in that says, well, we'll
17:15:22:24 open until 3:00 in the morning.
17:15:24:15 That's not what you're referring to, is it?
17:15:27:16 >> Well, this would allow for administrative approvals,
17:15:30:07 but only for those establishments inside malls that
17:15:35:00 would not apply to the outparcels or establishments
17:15:40:16 along, you know, in strip centers or on street corners
17:15:44:00 and that kind of thing.
17:15:45:03 I would just like to point out that is -- as part of
17:15:48:12 the staff review and the planning condition

17:15:50:18 recommendation that there was a finding that this
17:15:55:15 change would not create an adverse impact to
17:15:57:27 neighborhoods, which was the context of review for
17:16:02:15 consistency with the comprehensive plan.
17:16:04:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is a public hearing.
17:16:05:15 Anyone wish to address Council?
17:16:07:04 This is a public hearing.
17:16:12:00 >> Good evening, Council.
17:16:13:03 Randy Baron, 217 West Comanche Avenue.
17:16:17:13 Representing T.H.A.N.
17:16:19:09 I'm vice president.
17:16:19:27 Than is adamantly opposed to the change.
17:16:22:06 When this first came in the last cycle, we withdrew our
17:16:26:13 objections to the S-1s for malls as long as it was
17:16:31:15 only for restaurants and only if they closed at
17:16:34:00 midnight.
17:16:34:18 And sure enough, six months later, the malls are back,
17:16:38:25 and they say, well, that wasn't good enough.
17:16:41:03 Now we want S-1s for apparently everything, and they
17:16:44:27 can stay open till, I guess, 3 a.m.
17:16:50:18 You are right to notice Westshore mall.
17:16:52:21 Obviously, that is different than International Plaza.
17:16:55:00 People are leaving Westshore mall.
17:16:57:03 It's right up against Beach Park.
17:16:58:28 They've been very vocal against some of the wet zoning

17:17:01:19 applications in the past.
17:17:02:27 These people leave at 3 a.m.
17:17:04:15 They drive down the streets.
17:17:05:22 It also, apparently, has a business impact in that it's
17:17:09:15 easier now for establishments to go into a mall than it
17:17:12:00 is any other place in the city.
17:17:13:25 Because for them, it's an administrative proceeding as
17:17:16:16 opposed to a hearing.
17:17:17:22 So there's a competitive advantage for the malls now.
17:17:20:06 Again, than is adamantly opposed to this.
17:17:24:07 We like the current ordinance, which says it's for
17:17:28:00 restaurants only and only till 12 midnight.
17:17:32:15 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Mr. Baron, what is your main
17:17:34:13 opposition if they wanted to stay up to 2:30 3:00 in
17:17:37:19 the mall?
17:17:39:03 >> In the mall, well, I can't speak for Beach Park, but
17:17:42:25 they've been here before, and they talked about --
17:17:45:13 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: I'm not talking about Beach Park.
17:17:47:12 Why wouldn't you want within the confines of the mall
17:17:50:15 for them to be open until 2:30, 3:00 in the morning.
17:17:54:19 >> Because they have to leave the mall.
17:17:56:18 When they leave the mall, it's essentially creating a
17:17:59:06 bar situation in a mall.
17:18:00:24 They are going to be leaving, driving down the local
17:18:03:06 streets between, you know -- between midnight and 3:00

17:18:06:06 in the morning.
17:18:06:18 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Somebody could leave there at 11:00
17:18:09:07 and still be drunk, right?
17:18:10:22 >> They certainly can.
17:18:21:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Did than take a vote on this?
17:18:23:06 >> Yes.
17:18:23:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And than's position was?
17:18:25:24 >> To oppose it.
17:18:26:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To oppose this because of the impact
17:18:28:15 on neighborhoods?
17:18:29:22 >> Yes.
17:18:30:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
17:18:30:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
17:18:31:21 Anyone else from the public?
17:18:32:28 The next speaker from the public?
17:18:35:18 Anyone else from the public?
17:18:38:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I may have a second
17:18:40:00 shot here.
17:18:40:15 It's not that I'm opposed to everything here.
17:18:42:12 But every zoning that comes here, whether it's alcohol
17:18:47:19 or land zoning is based on the surrounding areas,
17:18:53:09 traffic, the amount of neighborhoods.
17:18:55:25 And I know that all of us are very cognizant of the
17:18:58:21 fact to protect neighborhoods because that's what makes
17:19:01:28 up a city.

17:19:02:18 But I have no problem with the International Mall,
17:19:08:13 because from where the mall sits and where the
17:19:10:28 activities are at, it's a thousand feet anywhere.
17:19:15:09 I mean, to the north, you hit a runway.
17:19:17:16 To the west, you hit another runway.
17:19:20:10 To the south, unless you put something right there in
17:19:24:28 the corner, it would be some distance still between
17:19:30:27 that area and the other area.
17:19:32:12 The only thing that clings to my mind is that one
17:19:37:00 petitioner came in and said our M.O. of operation is to
17:19:41:18 be open to 3:00 in the morning.
17:19:45:24 But the M.O. of that other mall was to close at 12:00.
17:19:49:18 And they have very good eateries there.
17:19:51:21 Maggiano's, the big Chinese place with the horse,
17:19:57:15 Mitchell's.
17:19:58:10 They have great places that are doing well.
17:20:00:06 I'm so happy to see that, especially in today's bailout
17:20:05:18 that we have.
17:20:06:21 I mean, so it's hard question.
17:20:13:00 If I knew what the M.O. was of the mall and you say,
17:20:16:27 you know what, this is it, but this is the M.O. of the
17:20:20:06 mall, I would be happy with it, because the M.O. would
17:20:22:27 meet the criteria of what's there now and was not
17:20:25:12 changing.
17:20:26:00 One of these malls does.

17:20:28:09 The other one does not.
17:20:29:16 That's just my opinion.
17:20:30:16 And I love to shop at the other mall, which is
17:20:34:00 Westshore mall.
17:20:35:00 I shop a lot at Westshore mall with somebody else's
17:20:38:12 money because it's expensive stores.
17:20:41:09 My wife's.
17:20:42:07 Got to know how to do that.
17:20:43:18 So what I'm saying is that -- I don't know what to tell
17:20:49:16 you.
17:20:57:00 >> My name is Sue Lyon.
17:20:58:19 I'm sorry I'm late.
17:21:00:06 But 5:00 is kind of hard for me to make.
17:21:02:16 I'm here to speak because Margaret can't be here.
17:21:07:00 And she asked me to come.
17:21:08:21 And this is something near and dear to her heart
17:21:11:03 because of Westshore plaza.
17:21:12:27 Nobody has ever done this before.
17:21:17:13 Westshore plaza doesn't have any bars.
17:21:19:09 They have nice restaurants, everything works.
17:21:21:15 And she believed that they have agreed to do this
17:21:27:12 because of the hours.
17:21:28:25 They had calmed down and they were going to be okay.
17:21:32:18 And then they had another initiative to change the
17:21:35:19 hours.

17:21:36:00 And that's what upset her.
17:21:39:00 And when Margaret tells me to come down, I'm here.
17:21:43:00 But than did come out.
17:21:44:13 And vote against the different hours.
17:21:47:25 Because poor Lincoln gardens, Carver City.
17:21:54:01 I know International Mall is out away from things.
17:21:59:16 And if Charlie is leaving and going on the runway, he's
17:22:02:21 been drinking too much.
17:22:03:24 But the people who leave International Mall have to
17:22:10:24 come through Lincoln gardens.
17:22:12:12 That area we've just put medians down so that the
17:22:17:21 people can cross the street.
17:22:20:00 And that traffic is horrendous.
17:22:22:03 And if you're going to put extra people drinking on
17:22:26:24 that street, it's difficult for that particular
17:22:29:24 neighborhood.
17:22:30:09 That's the only neighborhood that's really impacted.
17:22:34:06 But it's a neighborhood that's impacted by everything,
17:22:37:00 commercial development is coming in on all sides.
17:22:41:06 So as than represents all the neighborhoods, we're
17:22:46:09 worried about that and we're very concerned about it,
17:22:48:19 and we voted not to change the hours.
17:22:50:12 So I appreciate you letting me to speak at this late
17:22:53:09 hour.
17:22:54:01 Thank you.

17:22:57:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public?
17:22:59:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, staff question.
17:23:01:15 It's to clarify that what's before us, if we approve
17:23:05:12 these changes, then there would just be administrative
17:23:08:03 review.
17:23:08:25 It wouldn't come back before City Council, is that
17:23:11:01 correct?
17:23:13:01 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Correct.
17:23:13:24 In the S-1 criteria, which is administrative today, it
17:23:16:25 requires distance separation and it requires that the
17:23:19:24 establishment close at 12:00 for it to be able to be
17:23:23:27 approved administratively.
17:23:24:24 This would remove the 12:00, and it would also change
17:23:27:27 the distance separation for those large venues and also
17:23:33:24 for small venues.
17:23:42:00 Yes, it does.
17:23:42:27 Within a large-scale development of 500,000 feet or
17:23:47:22 more.
17:23:48:07 They would be able to do it administratively.
17:23:51:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Would an individual use, let's say
17:23:56:27 Joe's place, who wants to establish a bar in, let's
17:24:02:16 say, Westshore plaza, if somebody wanted to do that,
17:24:05:01 could they choose not to go this route but to ask for
17:24:09:00 an individual wet zoning for their property that was
17:24:11:15 not -- that was not this, that was not an

17:24:14:12 administrative review, that was a regular request
17:24:17:00 before Council, S-2 or whatever, with a regular
17:24:21:21 hearing.
17:24:22:06 In other words --
17:24:25:24 >>ABBYE FEELEY: No.
17:24:33:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is the only venue.
17:24:28:06 This is the only opportunity.
17:24:29:16 >> This would change those requests to be an
17:24:31:12 administrative request.
17:24:33:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So what I'm saying, there would be
17:24:35:24 no other opportunity for an individual establishment
17:24:38:15 within a mall to make an individual request, to not be
17:24:44:15 considered under this sort of umbrella ordinance.
17:24:47:16 Am I clear?
17:24:51:03 >>ABBYE FEELEY: This would change the special use
17:24:53:00 criteria for those establishments to go through an
17:24:55:21 administrative process instead of a public hearing
17:24:58:21 process.
17:24:58:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No one is allowed to do anything
17:25:01:09 other than this administrative process.
17:25:03:03 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I don't know why they would go to a
17:25:05:09 public hearing process.
17:25:06:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If they thought they could do an end
17:25:08:16 run-around.
17:25:09:16 In other words, if we adopt this and somebody feels

17:25:11:09 like they have some extraordinary circumstance, would
17:25:14:00 they have the opportunity as an individual
17:25:16:07 establishment within a mall to be able to make that
17:25:19:06 direct request not under administrative review, but
17:25:22:24 directly to Council?
17:25:24:09 >>ABBYE FEELEY: It would fall under administrative
17:25:26:00 review, and it would be able to be approved as long as
17:25:28:15 they could meet the criteria.
17:25:29:25 Now you've done away with the criteria, I don't know
17:25:31:24 why they would come through a public hearing process.
17:25:34:01 There would be nothing to trigger that.
17:25:36:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If there would be something that
17:25:37:22 they are asking for that isn't covered by this.
17:25:40:15 If they are asking for something beyond these
17:25:43:00 limitations.
17:25:48:03 >>ABBYE FEELEY: This is making the limitation so
17:25:50:01 minimal that there wouldn't be any force for them to
17:25:54:22 come forward before you.
17:25:55:19 It would be administrative.
17:25:56:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Gotcha.
17:25:58:13 Thanks.
17:25:59:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
17:26:05:27 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, after his presentation,
17:26:07:25 I want to make a motion to lay this on the table.
17:26:10:12 I'm waiting for an opinion from legal counsel on

17:26:12:21 something.
17:26:14:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
17:26:14:16 Yes.
17:26:16:00 >> Dave Mechanik, for the record.
17:26:17:25 Just to go back a little bit in time, I think initially
17:26:23:07 there was general support for the idea that there were,
17:26:27:06 with the malls, there were numerous petitions that come
17:26:30:18 forward, you know, as restaurants and bars move in and
17:26:35:00 out of malls and get bigger and smaller, we're
17:26:38:21 constantly having to come before City Council.
17:26:40:27 So the idea of having an administrative process had a
17:26:44:01 great deal of appeal.
17:26:46:24 We really are very hard-pressed to understand how this
17:26:51:25 would affect any neighborhoods.
17:26:53:16 I mean, you are dealing with the same level of traffic.
17:27:00:18 People, to the extent that they are driving in and out
17:27:04:15 of the malls or driving in and out, whether that's at
17:27:07:13 11:00 or 1:00 in the morning.
17:27:09:22 So we don't really see an effect.
17:27:13:04 This was just simply an opportunity to try and
17:27:17:18 streamline the process.
17:27:18:21 I would just like to point out that while the
17:27:25:18 compromise proposal, if you will, about closing at 12
17:27:28:21 midnight had some appeal to it, we have been unable to
17:27:31:21 get any prospective tenants to agree, because they

17:27:35:21 would be at a competitive disadvantage with respect to
17:27:39:22 all the other tenants at the mall who are able to work
17:27:42:28 to open later in the evening.
17:27:44:09 So we just simply thought that this was a reasonable
17:27:47:18 proposal and would not do any harm to neighborhoods or
17:27:51:09 create any additional impacts.
17:27:52:22 And we respectfully request your favorable
17:27:55:24 consideration.
17:27:56:09 Thank you.
17:28:02:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me understand that this particular
17:28:08:25 request would allow them -- I guess what than is
17:28:11:21 opposed to are the hours.
17:28:14:10 Is that accurate?
17:28:15:18 >> Hours, and the fact that we would have no notice --
17:28:18:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Baron.
17:28:21:18 >> It's hours.
17:28:23:06 And the fact that we would have no opportunity at all
17:28:25:01 to speak to that particular wet zoning.
17:28:27:12 If it did have an impact, there would be no opportunity
17:28:30:06 for us to bring it before Council.
17:28:31:18 It's all done administratively.
17:28:32:28 It would happen before we even knew it.
17:28:36:18 So it's a combination of the impact it would have on
17:28:38:21 the neighborhoods.
17:28:40:22 And again, especially, it's not -- it's more Westshore

17:28:46:09 than it is international, although there would still be
17:28:49:07 an impact, but this ordinance covers both.
17:28:51:28 So we have to take both into consideration.
17:28:54:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess, though, the question would
17:28:57:09 become, the impact, other than the hours.
17:29:03:03 Beach Park is still how many feet?
17:29:05:15 What's the distance from the mall?
17:29:07:00 And also the number of lanes of traffic you have to
17:29:09:18 cross from international as well, if you leave
17:29:11:12 international, you still got --
17:29:13:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Six lanes.
17:29:14:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Six lanes, about as many if you're
17:29:16:18 leaving Westshore, I believe.
17:29:18:06 If staff can tell me the distance.
17:29:21:18 Do you know the distance?
17:29:22:25 >> I don't know the exact distance.
17:29:24:06 I do know that Beach Park has been noticed on prior wet
17:29:27:04 zonings in Westshore plaza and, in fact, has had, given
17:29:30:10 the opportunity to speak before Council, Council has
17:29:32:21 ruled on those.
17:29:33:12 In fact, in some cases has denied them.
17:29:35:21 Those opportunities would have not been present had
17:29:37:19 this ordinance been in effect.
17:29:40:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yeah, but I remember though, there was
17:29:42:27 a compromise, if they were restaurant --

17:29:46:03 >> Right.
17:29:46:15 The idea is that a restaurant is different than a bar.
17:29:49:00 If you're open to 3:00, you're going to be a bar, not a
17:29:52:22 restaurant.
17:29:53:18 In our opinion, bars are different from restaurants.
17:29:56:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My point, though, is still drinking.
17:29:59:18 Drinking is drinking whether a bar or restaurant.
17:30:02:12 If you look at it, you have to be -- whether it's a bar
17:30:05:27 or restaurant, if you're going to drink, you're going
17:30:08:15 to drink s that right?
17:30:09:25 >> Right.
17:30:10:13 But I think there is a difference to the nature of the
17:30:12:24 operation.
17:30:13:06 If you're a restaurant, you are there to eat and drink.
17:30:16:12 I think Charlie spoke eloquently about this in the
17:30:19:09 past.
17:30:19:21 The difference between a bar and restaurant.
17:30:21:16 In fact, that was one of the reasons why the previous
17:30:23:19 wet zoning I believe was denied.
17:30:25:25 In Council's opinion, it was going to be more of a bar
17:30:28:18 than a restaurant.
17:30:29:06 It would have a different impact on the surrounding
17:30:31:21 neighborhood.
17:30:32:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Our understanding, than is more
17:30:35:06 supportive of a restaurant versus a bar being open till

17:30:39:21 3.
17:30:40:09 >> Well, I think the idea is that anything open to 3:00
17:30:43:27 will morph into a bar as opposed to a restaurant.
17:30:46:21 I don't know a lot of restaurants that really are open
17:30:50:06 till 3:00 with the food requirements.
17:30:52:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
17:30:53:12 Thank you.
17:30:55:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Chairman, I don't think in the mall
17:30:59:15 there's just bars.
17:31:00:18 Most of them are restaurants.
17:31:01:28 I haven't seen a bar in international or Westshore.
17:31:04:27 >> Blue martini is probably the only one I know of.
17:31:07:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Miranda.
17:31:09:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not trying to take the text from
17:31:16:18 this.
17:31:17:00 Really, when you look at international, and they are
17:31:19:03 both malls, and they are both very successful, and when
17:31:21:21 you look at international and you talk about the
17:31:23:21 neighborhood, I want to protect the neighborhood just
17:31:25:24 like somewhere else, any neighborhood.
17:31:27:16 When you come out of that International Mall, you can
17:31:30:04 only go really two ways.
17:31:32:21 You can make a left and go down Boyscout Boulevard or
17:31:36:28 you can make a right and go down, up north Boyscout
17:31:41:03 Boulevard.

17:31:42:03 If you try to find Manhattan, you're going to get lost
17:31:45:16 unless you know where you're going.
17:31:47:07 There's a little curve and all that kind of stuff
17:31:49:24 behind Jefferson high school.
17:31:51:15 Then you're going to head west -- I mean, south on
17:31:54:28 Westshore.
17:31:55:16 And if you live in St. Pete, you're going to make a
17:31:58:04 right and take the bridge.
17:31:59:15 Maybe the petitioner can correct me if I'm wrong, but
17:32:07:15 that one mall, I haven't had one person that I can
17:32:10:12 remember come to this Council and object strongly or
17:32:15:27 anyone at all.
17:32:16:15 Am I correct, sir?
17:32:17:27 >> No one has ever objected.
17:32:19:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's why I'm saying, I want to
17:32:21:18 make the bed, but I just don't want to throw the sheet
17:32:24:27 and cover twin beds.
17:32:26:00 How did I come up with that deal?
17:32:27:22 [ LAUGHTER ]
17:32:30:18 I make these things up.
17:32:32:09 What I'm saying is, I don't want to cover both twin
17:32:36:06 beds because they have a separate ire to themselves.
17:32:41:10 In the other mall, which I shop out and I hope I can
17:32:44:24 still go and walk in and be greeted and say, hi, let me
17:32:48:16 have your money.

17:32:49:09 >> Is that Walmart?
17:32:50:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's it.
17:32:51:00 There's been resistance.
17:32:56:18 But there's been some that have come by that are so
17:32:59:13 good that were passed unanimously.
17:33:02:15 Maggiano's, the Chinese, the one with the big horse.
17:33:07:15 Mitchell's.
17:33:08:07 I think the cigar smoker guy.
17:33:11:12 Remember the eloquent guy with a lot of money?
17:33:13:22 He's all right.
17:33:15:03 He agreed to 12:00 because that's the M.O. of that --
17:33:22:24 mode of operation for that mall.
17:33:24:18 They are doing good and they want to prosper and they
17:33:26:18 want to be part of the neighborhood.
17:33:27:25 And I welcome that.
17:33:28:25 It's because of the proximity of the neighborhood that
17:33:36:03 I think if something could be done where it says, hey,
17:33:39:06 you will meet the M.O. of the mall, and I can't say
17:33:42:06 that.
17:33:42:18 But I'm just talking to myself.
17:33:47:21 And for review, I'm not opposed to it.
17:33:50:27 But because it meets the neighborhood request and the
17:33:54:25 restaurant request and like has been said, my personal
17:33:58:24 feeling is, very few people eat after midnight.
17:34:01:18 Very few.

17:34:03:19 And if you do, you're going to get a heartburn.
17:34:06:07 So don't do that.
17:34:07:19 What I'm saying is, this is hard.
17:34:12:21 Everything else here is hard.
17:34:15:24 But I don't know how to separate these things.
17:34:20:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern and then
17:34:22:27 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
17:34:23:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I came in a little late, so this is
17:34:26:03 probably already covered, but I have to ask.
17:34:28:03 Are we talking about each of these different text
17:34:31:21 amendments separately?
17:34:33:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Number one.
17:34:34:12 We're on number one.
17:34:35:21 >>MARY MULHERN: We're on number one, which is the mall
17:34:37:22 wet zoning thing.
17:34:38:21 What is covered here?
17:34:43:09 Just international if we were to adopt this change, is
17:34:46:22 it just International Mall and Westshore mall or are
17:34:50:09 there other?
17:34:51:12 That's it.
17:34:52:00 And this is a request from representatives of the
17:35:00:18 mall --
17:35:02:01 >> Request on behalf of International Plaza.
17:35:07:00 >>MARY MULHERN: All right.
17:35:07:22 It looks to me like I have e-mails stating what Mr.

17:35:11:15 Baron and Ms. Lyon had to say from September.
17:35:15:12 So it doesn't look like we've really worked with them
17:35:19:12 on this, any of these specifics on this.
17:35:23:15 Because their question was about having this kind of
17:35:27:18 wet zoning come before Council.
17:35:30:21 I'm just wondering, was there any discussion
17:35:33:25 considering that it's Neighborhood Associations that
17:35:38:12 aren't happy with this.
17:35:39:15 Did you work with them?
17:35:41:03 >> No, we did not.
17:35:42:06 I was not aware that you had received those e-mails.
17:35:45:12 >>MARY MULHERN: It's back from September.
17:35:46:16 They had a list of all -- you might not have seen it,
17:35:50:18 because it was a list of all the text amendment changes
17:35:53:04 and comments on each of them.
17:35:55:09 Basically, they said we just finished negotiating with
17:35:58:04 malls for the R designation, midnight closing.
17:36:01:21 Anything else should go to City Council.
17:36:03:15 I have some understanding of their feelings because
17:36:09:27 they went through this discussion recently.
17:36:13:22 When was it that we changed --
17:36:18:16 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Abbye Feeley.
17:36:20:09 Land Development.
17:36:21:04 You remember last year it was when alcoholic beverage
17:36:24:18 sales became a special use.

17:36:26:06 And there are two types of special uses.
17:36:29:03 One is done administratively and one is done through a
17:36:32:15 public hearing process.
17:36:34:01 Council, when you put in special use criteria for
17:36:37:16 alcoholic beverages as a special use, you did put in
17:36:41:09 for administrative approval for alcoholic sales in a
17:36:46:16 mall, 500,000 square feet or more, if, one, they were
17:36:50:15 an R designation, which is a restaurant and they are
17:36:55:04 required reporting.
17:36:56:07 And, two, they close at 12 a.m.
17:36:58:24 If that was their desire, petitioners could come
17:37:02:10 through now through Land Development Coordination and
17:37:04:09 get those requests approved administratively.
17:37:06:07 As you know, private parties have the opportunity to
17:37:13:21 propose text amendments to the Land Development code.
17:37:16:12 At this time, they are proposing that that distance --
17:37:19:12 well, the R comes off, distance separation goes down to
17:37:23:09 zero, and the 12:00 comes off.
17:37:25:18 That's what's before you tonight for administrative
17:37:28:12 approval.
17:37:28:27 Right now, if you do not meet the distance separation
17:37:35:18 and the 12:00 closing, we cannot approve you
17:37:38:12 administratively, and you come before City Council.
17:37:40:15 So this would take away those criteria or modify those
17:37:45:09 criteria and allow for that administrative approval.

17:37:47:27 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
17:37:49:03 Thank you.
17:37:49:21 I'm sorry for making you go through that twice.
17:37:52:01 I feel like this is asking for a text amendment for
17:37:59:06 minor convenience for the mall people.
17:38:03:28 If I'm not convinced that the neighborhoods are okay
17:38:07:13 with this, I'm inclined -- I'm not sure why we should
17:38:11:00 change it considering that we did just make these
17:38:15:04 changes to special use and make these -- make it easier
17:38:22:19 on the restaurants and the malls.
17:38:24:27 What I'm saying is, if I feel like you can come to some
17:38:29:18 kind of agreement with the neighborhood people -- I
17:38:34:24 also understand the point that it really is not -- I
17:38:37:19 don't see it as Mr. Miranda said as a big problem for
17:38:40:25 the neighborhoods because those malls are isolated by
17:38:42:21 the traffic.
17:38:46:00 >> Mr. Baron just made a suggestion, which I think --
17:38:49:27 we like the idea, I don't want to speak for Mr. Baron,
17:38:52:07 but he was suggesting -- and I think this would require
17:38:56:24 us to continue the hearing so we could work out the
17:38:59:09 exact language, but Mr. Barron's suggestion would be
17:39:05:06 that it would be filed as an administrative process,
17:39:08:03 but the neighborhoods would be notified just like you
17:39:10:24 would for any alcoholic beverage.
17:39:14:12 If there was an objection registered, then that would

17:39:18:04 trigger it to go to a City Council regular alcoholic
17:39:22:10 beverage rezoning hearing.
17:39:25:00 If there was no objection, then the petition could be
17:39:28:21 administratively approved.
17:39:32:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Abbye, can we do that?
17:39:36:12 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Abbye Feeley, Land Development.
17:39:38:06 That is actually how our administrative variances are
17:39:41:00 processed right now.
17:39:41:27 Administrative variances come in and they send out
17:39:44:18 public notice to the surrounding property owners within
17:39:48:00 the 250 feet, like a typical public notice and the
17:39:51:07 Neighborhood Association.
17:39:52:07 They get 14 days from the time it is sent.
17:39:57:21 If we receive an objection, then we do deny that
17:40:00:03 variance and then they go to the variance review board
17:40:02:18 for a full public hearing.
17:40:03:21 So I'm here tonight on behalf of Catherine Coyle who is
17:40:08:15 out.
17:40:08:27 I can take that back to her and we can try to work it
17:40:12:18 that way.
17:40:15:00 >>REBECCA KERT: Rebecca Kert, Legal Department.
17:40:16:25 Variances are a completely different animal than
17:40:18:21 special uses.
17:40:19:06 I'm not prepared to say that's legally defensible.
17:40:22:03 I would be happy to work with everybody involved and do

17:40:24:10 some legal research on that, but I'm not comfortable
17:40:26:21 saying that is something I can legally support today.
17:40:29:06 >> Move to continue it for you to look into it.
17:40:31:22 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Madam Chairman, I was going to
17:40:35:15 propose that we allow this for five years.
17:40:37:28 Anybody who has an approval during that five years,
17:40:41:13 after five years, that administrative hearing would
17:40:44:16 have to come back and be renewed by the City Council.
17:40:49:22 But anybody who was administratively put in during that
17:40:54:03 five years, they have a right to stay there.
17:40:57:01 And after the five years, they would come back to the
17:41:00:18 Council.
17:41:01:06 It would be a conditional, I guess?
17:41:12:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: What you're saying is to make it a
17:41:14:15 five-year conditional under this process?
17:41:16:10 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Under this process.
17:41:17:18 And anybody who is awarded a license under that process
17:41:22:04 during that five years has a right to stay there.
17:41:25:03 You can't bring them back.
17:41:28:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Are you saying that you want this
17:41:31:00 provision to last five years and anybody who is granted
17:41:33:19 within that five years is grandfathered in?
17:41:35:15 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Right.
17:41:36:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Okay.
17:41:37:07 That's different than granting a conditional for five

17:41:39:21 years.
17:41:40:03 I guess if I understand what you're saying, what you're
17:41:43:12 in effect is asking for is a five-year provision before
17:41:45:28 it sunsets and then it reverts back when Council
17:41:48:27 extends it.
17:41:49:21 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Right.
17:41:52:06 >> If we could, I think in light of what Ms. Kert just
17:41:55:09 said, I think we would need to review this legally,
17:41:59:00 either under Mr. Caetano's proposal or Mr. Barron's.
17:42:03:06 If we could just continue it to whatever the
17:42:05:24 appropriate date would be, then we would have some time
17:42:08:10 to sort out the legalities and then draft the
17:42:11:09 appropriate language.
17:42:13:24 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: So moved.
17:42:14:12 >>GWEN MILLER: What do we have open next?
17:42:17:09 January what?
17:42:19:24 >> I think what's going to happen, we'll be going into
17:42:22:07 our next cycle of text changes if we continue this out
17:42:25:13 too much further, because you have the holidays now,
17:42:27:16 and then January, only one or two hearings.
17:42:30:04 You may want to ask if the petitioner is amenable to
17:42:37:27 that, to push it into the next cycle.
17:42:39:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Need to do it before the end of
17:42:41:27 December?
17:42:42:15 >> Not necessarily.

17:42:43:07 >> Well, our January cycle will be coming next.
17:42:47:24 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to do it before that cycle
17:42:50:04 starts?
17:42:50:24 >> No, not necessarily.
17:42:53:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Mechanik, how long it take you?
17:42:56:22 >> I would say -- of course, I will agree to work over
17:43:00:04 the holidays, but I understand.
17:43:03:10 You know, mid January, I think we could come back very
17:43:06:24 easily, and we would not be too far out of sync with
17:43:10:21 the cycle.
17:43:11:16 >>ABBYE FEELEY: January 22nd, as you know is the comp
17:43:15:01 plan update public hearing.
17:43:16:09 January 29th, you have a full rezoning hearing plus
17:43:20:06 some other amendments on there.
17:43:22:01 Then it goes to February 12th, we do have openings at
17:43:25:15 night if you would like to continue it to a night
17:43:28:03 hearing or February 26th comes after that.
17:43:30:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Mechanik, you heard the dates.
17:43:33:28 Which one do you want?
17:43:35:01 >> The earliest one.
17:43:36:01 Just whatever is the most convenient.
17:43:40:06 >>GWEN MILLER: January what?
17:43:44:04 >>ABBYE FEELEY: It would be February 12th.
17:43:46:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to continue to February 12th.
17:43:48:21 >> 6 p.m.?

17:43:50:07 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Or you can do it at 5:00.
17:43:53:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 5:00.
17:43:54:25 >>GWEN MILLER: February the 12th, 5:00.
17:43:57:03 Is that agreeable with you, Mr. Mechanik?
17:43:59:24 >> Yes.
17:44:00:09 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
17:44:01:24 All in favor of the motion, aye.
17:44:03:06 Opposed, nay.
17:44:04:24 [Motion Carried]
17:44:07:00 >> Thank you.
17:44:12:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Who is doing the next one?
17:44:14:25 Number 2.
17:44:25:28 >>REBECCA KERT: Rebecca Kert, item number 2 is the
17:44:28:01 demolition by neglect.
17:44:29:12 It amends the A.R.C. and the B.L.C. ordinance.
17:44:33:21 We workshopped this several times.
17:44:35:12 I'm available if there are any questions.
17:44:36:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone in the public like to speak on
17:44:39:21 item number 2?
17:44:42:24 >> I have not been sworn in.
17:44:44:09 >>GWEN MILLER: You don't have to be.
17:44:51:07 >> Merry Christmas, happy Kwanzaa, Hanukkah and all the
17:44:55:00 rest to everybody.
17:44:56:06 Fran Costantino.
17:45:00:21 I read over the ordinance and reread it and reread it,

17:45:06:24 and I appreciate legal staff trying to make the
17:45:11:18 language a little stronger, but, you know, I just don't
17:45:16:27 see where we have enough teeth in our historic
17:45:19:15 preservation ordinance.
17:45:20:27 There's a part that we had got from one of the flyers
17:45:25:21 or whatever we get in the mail that says the owner's
17:45:28:10 neglect should not be allowed to create an economic
17:45:31:19 hardship.
17:45:32:01 I used to know how to work ELMO.
17:45:36:04 I don't know if I know how to work this.
17:45:37:27 This is the last that you'll ever see the word Gary on
17:45:49:06 any public building in the City of Tampa.
17:45:51:09 This was under code violation.
17:45:53:25 I don't see where the new ordinance is going to be able
17:45:56:03 to help.
17:45:56:25 This building is a historic landmark, and it was under
17:46:00:18 code violation.
17:46:01:18 I'm just going to zip through these real quick for you
17:46:06:15 all to see.
17:46:07:09 There's the end of Gary.
17:46:14:24 It looks like they could have tried to save some of the
17:46:17:22 facade, some of the building.
17:46:25:25 There's the site today.
17:46:28:12 And here's what's left of Gary school.
17:46:34:03 Now that was a historic school in the city, and that

17:46:38:06 was under violation.
17:46:39:09 So I just don't understand.
17:46:41:04 Maybe it's not a point of how we write our ordinances,
17:46:44:10 but maybe a point of enforcement.
17:46:48:06 I'm done with the barrio Latino.
17:46:52:09 I've been term limited out, so this is not a conflict.
17:46:56:12 But this is a house that the barrio has approved to be
17:47:00:12 demolished, and it has a life span up until December
17:47:04:03 the 31st.
17:47:05:21 That picture was taken today.
17:47:07:16 Now they are trying to give the house away and have it
17:47:11:19 moved so that we can save a historic structure --
17:47:15:09 >> City Council, this is an item still pending before
17:47:17:12 the barrio.
17:47:18:09 Although it is not a conflict for Ms. Costantino, it's
17:47:23:09 something that could potentially come before you.
17:47:25:22 Isn't this the one still pending?
17:47:28:09 >> No, it's done.
17:47:30:00 >> Has the appeal time run out?
17:47:32:00 I want to make sure --
17:47:33:07 >> It was agreed to be --
17:47:34:21 >> Well, we can go on.
17:47:36:06 That's fine.
17:47:36:28 Yeah, that's done already.
17:47:43:22 Anyway -- can I talk about it, Rebecca, or not?

17:47:49:03 Okay.
17:47:49:18 Well let's just make it general.
17:47:51:27 Let's say there was a house that the City of Tampa and
17:47:55:18 the code enforcement department says that they complied
17:47:57:28 by a deadline on a house that was code violated.
17:48:01:21 Let's say that was on July 18th.
17:48:06:03 Then approximately July the 20th, a certified letter
17:48:09:06 is sent out on the same structure and said that it's
17:48:12:04 unfit for human habitation.
17:48:14:21 You know, I just don't understand how houses that have
17:48:21:24 eight police reports reporting vagrants and drugs and
17:48:26:15 crime.
17:48:27:03 That was in '08.
17:48:28:06 Police reports for '07, and it seems like anybody could
17:48:32:21 get a contractor to come in and tell them whatever they
17:48:35:12 want.
17:48:35:22 The sad part is that a house that is going to be
17:48:39:12 demolished by December the 31st, if it can't be moved
17:48:43:06 for free, brought in a contractor who said that in
17:48:46:03 order to rehab it, according to the secretary of
17:48:51:15 interior standards, would cost $470,000 to rehab it.
17:48:56:13 I mean, I don't know if this is just a con game or what
17:49:01:19 they do to the city, but they are just making up
17:49:04:25 figures to come before you.
17:49:07:01 I don't know what can be done.

17:49:08:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
17:49:09:12 Next speaker?
17:49:12:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could we have the photograph of
17:49:15:03 Gary.
17:49:15:22 Would you mind passing them around?
17:49:18:06 >> You can have them.
17:49:25:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern, you have a
17:49:27:09 question?
17:49:30:07 >> My name is James singleton --
17:49:35:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: One second, sir.
17:49:36:24 >>MARY MULHERN: We can hear from him.
17:49:38:21 I'll save my questions for after.
17:49:40:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Come on back, sir then.
17:49:41:27 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, wait, no.
17:49:43:09 I changed my mind.
17:49:44:19 I have a question about this.
17:49:50:06 Because we were getting advice from the heritage
17:49:52:16 committee of the AIA, and I don't see any of them here.
17:49:58:00 And I'm wondering, and I'll defer to Councilwoman
17:50:02:24 Saul-Sena, if we're not ready to adopt this today, if
17:50:08:12 this language isn't acceptable to you, I want to
17:50:12:15 continue this before we get into --
17:50:15:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Why don't we continue to hear from the
17:50:17:18 public.
17:50:18:00 Then we can debate among ourselves.

17:50:20:04 I thought you had a question.
17:50:22:06 Come on, sir.
17:50:23:03 >> My name is James Singleton.
17:50:24:21 I live at 3510 East 8th Avenue.
17:50:27:03 I've been a resident of Tampa all my life.
17:50:29:06 Before I get started, if the City Council would like
17:50:32:00 copies of the Gary school before it was torn down,
17:50:35:12 while, after it caved in and then when it was being
17:50:39:00 demolished, I can furnish you pictures of everything.
17:50:42:22 It's really sad to see something like that happen as
17:50:46:19 far as the Gary school.
17:50:48:03 It was a historical structure.
17:50:50:09 There really was no excuse for that.
17:50:54:07 And I really appreciate the City Council trying to do
17:50:59:04 something to prevent it from happening again.
17:51:01:12 But the problem is, if there's not any bite in the law
17:51:05:19 or the orders or the rules or what have you, nothing
17:51:10:00 else is going to change.
17:51:11:21 For example, that school was under code violation for
17:51:17:27 months before it collapsed.
17:51:19:07 What was done?
17:51:20:03 Nothing.
17:51:20:18 Now, I'm not pointing the finger at code enforcement.
17:51:23:27 I don't know who to point the finger at except maybe
17:51:26:25 the original property owner of the building itself.

17:51:29:06 But I do believe that if the system had been
17:51:32:28 implemented like it should have been, then it never
17:51:36:03 would have come down to that.
17:51:37:24 Whether it be the Gary school or the house that Fran
17:51:42:15 here was discussing.
17:51:43:22 History is my passion.
17:51:47:21 I like the idea of knowing that the structures that are
17:51:52:06 here now will be seen by the next and the next and the
17:51:56:12 next generation.
17:51:57:09 I don't believe that we have a right to prevent the
17:52:01:25 future people from seeing it.
17:52:03:28 Also, it seems to me that if somebody owns a structure
17:52:11:15 in a designated historic community, area, or owns a
17:52:19:00 historic house or building, they should automatically
17:52:21:09 know what is expected of them before they'll buy it.
17:52:24:22 And if they do buy it, then they should be expected to
17:52:28:06 implement whatever necessary repairs to stabilize and
17:52:32:03 prevent deterioration before any other work is done.
17:52:36:12 That's basically what I have to say.
17:52:41:04 It's just that whatever you do, try to make it so it's
17:52:46:00 not an easy way to get out of it through a legal
17:52:49:16 loophole or in the case of hardship, I can understand
17:52:53:24 something like that.
17:52:54:21 But like with the Gary school, there was no hardship.
17:52:57:06 None whatsoever.

17:52:58:07 We need to try to implement whatever it is that you-all
17:53:04:09 decide on so we can stop this from happening again.
17:53:07:21 If nothing else happens because of the Gary school, if
17:53:10:22 we can change it, then maybe, you know, donated itself
17:53:15:10 to the future.
17:53:16:18 Thank you.
17:53:17:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
17:53:18:18 To answer Ms. Mulhern's question, I spoke with the
17:53:21:09 heritage committee.
17:53:22:15 They think that this is better than nothing.
17:53:24:15 They think this is a good first step, that we should go
17:53:27:13 ahead and adopt this, and then we should work on making
17:53:31:03 it tougher.
17:53:31:25 I talked to Jake Slater, the new code enforcement guy.
17:53:34:18 He says he needs additional tools.
17:53:36:27 I think we should move this tonight and ask legal to
17:53:39:01 come back to us with additional tools.
17:53:41:15 We have a litany of buildings after Gary came down, one
17:53:44:03 of the papers ran six or seven photographs of other
17:53:48:24 treasured local buildings that are -- that look like
17:53:52:00 they are in precarious shape.
17:53:54:01 Adopting this tonight will get us on the road, and then
17:53:56:28 we need additional tools.
17:53:58:06 So thank you all for coming down.
17:53:59:24 Those pictures you brought are painful.

17:54:02:15 Really painful.
17:54:04:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public want to
17:54:07:09 address Council?
17:54:10:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
17:54:10:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
17:54:11:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
17:54:13:24 [Motion Carried]
17:54:21:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move an ordinance of
17:54:23:04 the City of Tampa, Florida, making comprehensive
17:54:25:00 changes to chapter 27, zoning city Tampa code of
17:54:28:09 ordinances providing for notice pertaining to
17:54:30:00 demolition by neglect.
17:54:32:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
17:54:34:00 Seconded by Councilman Miranda.
17:54:35:24 All in favor, signify by aye.
17:54:37:24 Opposed?
17:54:38:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
17:54:40:06 I would like to ask Rebecca -- I need to read this one,
17:54:44:24 sorry.
17:54:45:15 Move an ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida, making
17:54:47:12 comprehensive revisions to the City of Tampa Code of
17:54:50:10 ordinances chapter 27 zoning amending chapter 27-197
17:54:53:24 reserved amending section 27-220, maintenance and
17:54:56:24 repair of landmarks, landmark sites and property in
17:55:00:03 historic districts, multiple property designation or

17:55:02:27 conservation overlay district, repealing all ordinances
17:55:05:04 or parts of ordinance in conflict therewith, providing
17:55:08:03 for severability, providing effective date.
17:55:11:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
17:55:12:15 All in favor, aye?
17:55:14:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Rebecca, I know you're very busy,
17:55:17:01 but I'd like to ask legal to come back to City Council
17:55:19:24 at their first meeting in January with some specific
17:55:23:19 tools for code enforcement and for our Legal Department
17:55:28:06 to help us substantively address demolition by neglect.
17:55:33:12 I can list seven structures, which I won't do right
17:55:35:27 now, but you know the ones that are in precarious
17:55:39:03 shape.
17:55:39:12 We need this, and we've been talking about it forever,
17:55:42:03 and we need you to come back to us with tools to help
17:55:45:06 us address this.
17:55:46:22 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes, Ms. Saul-Sena.
17:55:48:15 And definitely will coordinate with code enforcement
17:55:51:06 and historic preservation on that.
17:55:52:24 But I also wanted to tell you that as we told you at
17:55:56:13 the workshops, we will be coming back with you to add
17:55:58:16 the demolition by neglect to the citation process to
17:56:01:09 make sure we have that tool available.
17:56:07:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item number three.
17:56:08:21 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Abbye Feeley, Land Development

17:56:10:12 Coordination.
17:56:11:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Make a motion for them to come back
17:56:13:21 at the first meeting in January.
17:56:15:00 My motion would be to come back the first meeting in
17:56:17:06 January with a written list of things that we're
17:56:20:00 working on, when we expect to have them in our arsenal
17:56:23:09 so we can begin to address this.
17:56:25:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
17:56:26:13 Seconded by Councilman Miranda.
17:56:28:09 All in favor, signify by aye.
17:56:29:27 So moved.
17:56:30:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If we lose anything over the
17:56:32:04 holidays, it will break our heart.
17:56:35:19 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Item number 3, the petitioner, again,
17:56:38:21 privately initiated text amendment, Jim Porter is here
17:56:41:13 to speak to this.
17:56:42:13 It is seeking to add miniwarehouse to the Channel
17:56:45:27 District as an allowable use.
17:56:50:03 >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Council, Jim Porter, Ruden
17:56:54:10 McClosky.
17:56:55:21 This item was before you before.
17:56:57:16 Creates specific performance standards to allow the
17:56:59:18 consideration of miniwarehouse in the Channel District.
17:57:01:22 Warehouse is allowed.
17:57:03:12 Miniwarehouse is not.

17:57:05:00 You approved a lot of multifamily development and
17:57:06:25 there's no place for people to put it.
17:57:08:21 So the performance standards are in the code.
17:57:11:06 We've taken councilman's Saul-Sena direction to make
17:57:16:07 sure we comply with the Channel District guideline.
17:57:18:18 We've taken the comments that the neighborhoods have
17:57:20:22 asked us to include, and we added those in here.
17:57:23:00 We respectfully ask for your approval.
17:57:24:22 Thank you.
17:57:26:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is a public hearing.
17:57:27:03 Anyone wish to address Council on item 3?
17:57:29:21 Anyone from the public?
17:57:30:16 Motion to close.
17:57:31:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
17:57:32:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
17:57:33:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
17:57:35:07 So moved.
17:57:36:03 Councilwoman Miller.
17:57:40:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
17:57:41:09 Move an ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida, making
17:57:44:03 comprehensive revision to the City of Tampa Code of
17:57:47:01 ordinance chapter 27, zoning, amending section 27-452,
17:57:51:16 official schedule of permitted principal, accessory,
17:57:57:09 and special uses; amending section 27-457, development
17:57:59:18 site and building design standards; amending section

17:58:02:12 27-545, definitions repealing of all ordinances in
17:58:07:09 conflict and parts of ordinances in conflict therewith,
17:58:11:21 providing for severability, providing an effective
17:58:12:09 date.
17:58:13:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
17:58:15:06 Seconded by Councilman Miranda.
17:58:17:03 All in favor by aye.
17:58:18:19 So moved.
17:58:19:15 Item number 4.
17:58:21:06 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Item number 4 is another privately
17:58:24:06 initiated text amendment by the port to increase the
17:58:28:03 height for open storage for port property to 90 feet.
17:58:33:00 And the port is here to speak.
17:58:40:24 >> Good evening.
17:58:42:03 Kathy Davey with the Tampa Port Authority.
17:58:44:15 The existing ordinance requires that open storage be
17:58:47:00 screened behind a fence and not stacked higher than six
17:58:50:00 feet.
17:58:50:12 Apparently, this was implemented as a residential
17:58:54:03 ordinance.
17:58:55:06 As a solution, the Port Authority is requesting that
17:58:58:16 Hooker's Pointe, and I have an exhibit.
17:59:06:00 That the land in the city limit on Hooker's Pointe be
17:59:15:03 exempt from stacking and the six-foot stacking
17:59:17:21 requirement.

17:59:18:06 The port currently stacks items about 65 feet high.
17:59:22:01 We're not asking for anything that hasn't been done in
17:59:24:09 the past.
17:59:26:06 Just an opportunity to continue our current operations.
17:59:29:00 And I'd also like to note that this is not for
17:59:32:04 structures.
17:59:32:27 There are structures at the port reaching 300 feet.
17:59:36:12 And with those structures and any tall stacking, we
17:59:40:15 always coordinate with the Aviation Authority and FAA
17:59:46:09 regulates the port for flight paths and high
17:59:49:10 structures.
17:59:51:18 If there are any questions, I'd be happy to address
17:59:53:21 them.
17:59:54:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
17:59:54:21 Thank you.
17:59:55:13 This is a public hearing.
17:59:55:28 Anyone wish to address Council?
17:59:57:16 Anyone wish to address Council may come forward at this
17:59:59:22 time, please.
18:00:02:24 >> My name is Sue Lyon.
18:00:06:00 I'm speaking again for Margaret Vizzi.
18:00:08:27 I talked with Margaret this afternoon.
18:00:11:28 The Port Authority has spoken with her, and she
18:00:14:06 understands.
18:00:14:18 And when I say Margaret Vizzi, she's the Chairman of

18:00:17:21 our zoning committee, and coordinates the rest of us
18:00:21:06 together.
18:00:21:16 At the Planning Commission, she spoke with the Port
18:00:27:15 Authority.
18:00:28:03 They do all this stacking at the far end of the port
18:00:32:01 area.
18:00:33:12 It hasn't been a problem, and we're not opposing this
18:00:38:13 ordinance.
18:00:40:06 The only request, Wolford Johnson, president of than
18:00:45:25 made was that we would like to have something to let us
18:00:50:00 know that they will take care of the high stacked stuff
18:00:53:06 in case of a hurricane or natural thing just to cover
18:00:59:07 everything.
18:01:00:06 But as a general thing, we're not opposing it.
18:01:03:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
18:01:04:03 Thank you very much.
18:01:04:18 Anyone else from the public?
18:01:08:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
18:01:09:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
18:01:10:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess I just have one question before
18:01:12:09 we close, and that is, you heard what --
18:01:17:18 >> Yes, I spoke with our chief of operations.
18:01:19:28 And the port is under various rules and regulations
18:01:24:15 regarding just about everything.
18:01:28:00 With oil spills, we're regulated by homeland security,

18:01:31:07 we're regulated by different coast guards, measures for
18:01:35:15 spills and containing things.
18:01:37:03 And for a lot of the materials that are stacked, if a
18:01:40:00 hurricane is that strong --
18:01:44:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, that's not the issue.
18:01:45:27 That's what she's saying.
18:01:48:00 They want to be notified if anything does happen.
18:01:51:03 Is that accurate?
18:01:52:18 >> Sure.
18:01:52:28 And we're also subject to all the public notifications
18:01:55:13 if there's spills, disasters, catastrophes.
18:01:59:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
18:02:00:03 Thank you very much.
18:02:00:24 >> You're welcome.
18:02:01:09 Thank you.
18:02:01:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close?
18:02:03:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
18:02:04:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
18:02:05:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
18:02:07:15 Thank you.
18:02:07:27 Mr. Miranda.
18:02:08:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
18:02:10:09 Mr. Chairman, move an ordinance in the City of Tampa,
18:02:17:00 Florida, making comprehensive revision to the City of
18:02:19:12 Tampa Code of ordinance chapter 27 zoning amending

18:02:22:03 section 27-138, open storage, repealing all ordinance
18:02:25:27 or parts of ordinance in conflict, providing for
18:02:28:21 severability, providing an effective date.
18:02:32:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
18:02:33:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
18:02:35:16 All in favor, signify by aye.
18:02:38:06 Item number 5.
18:02:41:06 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Abbye Feeley, Land Development.
18:02:43:09 Item number 5 is a privately initiated text amendment
18:02:46:15 for the addition of air-conditioned storage in the
18:02:49:06 central business district with performance standards.
18:02:51:21 Mr. Mechanik is here to speak on this item.
18:02:55:12 >> Good evening.
18:02:56:01 David Mechanik.
18:02:56:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Welcome back.
18:02:59:00 >> This is my last one tonight.
18:03:01:03 I'm here on behalf of the applicant.
18:03:04:28 This is virtually the same amendment as what you
18:03:07:22 approved under item number 3, only it applies to the
18:03:11:12 central business district, the north end of the central
18:03:15:00 business district.
18:03:15:15 And I would just point out that any such uses are
18:03:19:01 subject to all of the applicable CBD design review
18:03:24:15 requirements and approval by City Council.
18:03:27:06 And we respectfully request your approval.

18:03:29:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
18:03:29:27 This is a public hearing.
18:03:30:19 Anyone wish to address Council?
18:03:32:06 Item number 5, anyone wish to address Council may come
18:03:35:16 forward?
18:03:36:12 Motion to close?
18:03:37:27 >> So moved.
18:03:39:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, aye?
18:03:42:15 Councilwoman Mulhern, would you read number 5?
18:03:46:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Chairman.
18:03:47:12 I move an ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida,
18:03:50:06 making comprehensive revisions to City of Tampa Code of
18:03:53:01 ordinances chapter 27 zoning amending section 27-272,
18:03:58:00 regulations governing individual special uses, amending
18:04:01:06 section 27-438, official schedule of permitted
18:04:05:01 principal accessory and special uses, repealing all
18:04:08:03 ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict
18:04:10:15 therewith, providing for severability, providing an
18:04:12:24 effective date.
18:04:13:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
18:04:14:04 Seconded by Councilman Miranda.
18:04:16:16 All in favor, signify by aye.
18:04:19:27 So moved and ordered.
18:04:21:00 Item 6, memo from assistant City Attorney Julia Cole
18:04:28:09 that we continue this item till January 29th.

18:04:34:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, may there be a motion to
18:04:37:24 open the public hearing?
18:04:39:09 >> They are all open.
18:04:40:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's correct.
18:04:41:00 I'm sorry.
18:04:44:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Motion to continue.
18:04:46:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone want to speak on the
18:04:48:09 continuance?
18:04:49:04 Anyone want to speak on the continuance?
18:04:51:10 Okay.
18:04:51:25 Go ahead.
18:04:52:25 >>MARY MULHERN: I move to continue item number 6 to
18:04:56:24 January 29th at 6 p.m.
18:05:00:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
18:05:02:24 >>MARY MULHERN: 5.
18:05:04:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, it doesn't say.
18:05:05:13 Just says to be continued to January 29th.
18:05:08:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: My suggestion would be make it 5:01.
18:05:12:10 >>MARY MULHERN: 5:01, January 29.
18:05:14:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
18:05:16:27 Opposed?
18:05:18:15 Item 7.
18:05:22:18 >>REBECCA KERT: Rebecca Kert, Legal Department.
18:05:24:06 This is a code text amendment change to the criteria
18:05:26:27 that the VRB uses when reviewing variances.

18:05:29:27 It's to clarify that the applicant has to demonstrate
18:05:33:19 practical difficulties or unnecessary hardships, and
18:05:36:06 that that's balanced with the public health, safety and
18:05:39:06 general welfare.
18:05:40:04 We also removed the criteria that the alleged hardship
18:05:44:19 or practical difficulty has to extend to the inability
18:05:49:00 to use land for any reasonable land use.
18:05:51:09 That's an almost unmeetable criteria.
18:05:53:15 And we added the criteria that the hardship cannot be
18:05:56:01 self-created, and that is as a matter of law.
18:06:00:27 I'm available for any questions.
18:06:02:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
18:06:07:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question.
18:06:09:00 My question is, I know that we've gone to these changes
18:06:14:06 to make it a more reasonable standard.
18:06:19:28 Will we have the ability in the future if perhaps we've
18:06:22:19 made it too lax, to tighten it up again, when would we
18:06:28:10 be able to review how this is going and hear back from
18:06:31:09 the community?
18:06:32:12 >>REBECCA KERT: You can do that anytime in the process
18:06:35:06 that you feel this isn't working, you can direct us to
18:06:37:24 change it in the next round of Land Development code
18:06:40:24 changes.
18:06:43:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I know there were problems
18:06:45:07 previously that we were too inflexible.

18:06:48:01 We're looking for the right balance.
18:06:49:21 That's reassuring to know we can revisit it at any
18:06:53:18 time.
18:06:54:06 Thank you very much.
18:06:54:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is a public hearing.
18:06:56:00 Anyone wish to address Council on item 7?
18:06:59:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
18:07:01:12 >> Second.
18:07:01:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
18:07:04:12 Councilman Caetano, could you read item number 7?
18:07:10:19 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: An ordinance of the City of Tampa,
18:07:12:07 Florida, making comprehensive revisions to the City of
18:07:14:24 Tampa Code of ordinances chapter 17.5, planning and
18:07:18:25 Land Development, amending sections 17.5-74 application
18:07:24:22 of the variance power, amending chapter 27 zoning
18:07:28:25 section 27-214, variance authority, application.
18:07:34:04 Notice criteria, decision, stay, denial, appeal,
18:07:39:04 expiration of variance, repealing all ordinances or
18:07:42:03 parts of ordinances in conflict therewith, providing
18:07:45:04 severability, providing an effective date.
18:07:47:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
18:07:49:01 Seconded by Councilman Miranda.
18:07:50:27 All in favor, signify by aye.
18:07:52:22 Opposed, same sign.
18:07:54:00 So moved.

18:07:55:27 >> Mr. Chairman, items one through five and item 7,
18:07:58:12 second reading and adoption will be on January the
18:08:00:06 8th at 9:30 a.m.
18:08:02:04 And they all passed unanimously with Dingfelder being
18:08:07:03 absent.
18:08:07:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
18:08:08:06 Thank you.
18:08:08:18 Item 8.
18:08:22:15 >> Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of Council, Tony
18:08:25:09 Garcia, Planning Commission staff.
18:08:26:27 What you have before you presently is a plan amendment
18:08:34:10 that was just recently heard by the Planning Commission
18:08:35:09 this past Monday.
18:08:36:03 It's a small scale plan amendment request.
18:08:38:12 As you can see, the address is the 4918 North Habana
18:08:41:18 Avenue.
18:08:42:00 This is referred to as Tampa comprehensive plan
18:08:44:00 amendment PA08-02.
18:08:47:15 Little bit of background on the site in question.
18:08:49:24 This is a privately initiated land use change request.
18:08:53:27 The request is to go from land use category of
18:08:55:27 residential 35 to public/semi public.
18:08:59:09 This is a small-scale plan amendment.
18:09:01:15 It is only 8.9 acres in size, under 10 acres, which
18:09:06:09 means it does not have to go to the state for review.

18:09:08:21 The fate of this particular plan amendment rests upon
18:09:11:03 this Council.
18:09:11:28 The general location of the site is in the City of
18:09:17:27 Tampa on the western side of Tampa, just south of the
18:09:24:00 City of Tampa boundaries.
18:09:24:24 Here is Hillsborough Avenue, and then we have Dale
18:09:30:13 Mabry.
18:09:31:01 The site is located on the western face of Habana.
18:09:34:25 I will go ahead and show you a little bit -- aerial
18:09:41:18 that gives you a clear idea of where the location is
18:09:43:18 at.
18:09:43:27 The 8.9-acre site is largely vacated right now.
18:09:47:10 To give you a little bit of history on it, this was
18:09:50:15 formerly known as a nursing home that went by the name
18:09:53:07 of jorge sue that existed here about 30 years ago and
18:09:58:03 serviced the area.
18:09:59:06 The site is owned by Franciscan Properties.
18:10:01:24 It is a parcel owned by St. Joseph Hospital.
18:10:04:18 The request tonight, obviously, is to go from
18:10:07:16 residential 35 to public/semi public, which will allow
18:10:11:28 consideration of this use for additional hospital uses
18:10:14:15 off-site for hospital uses that are presently being
18:10:17:12 administered in the main site of St. Joseph's Hospital
18:10:20:18 on the northwest corner of Dr. Martin Luther King
18:10:24:03 boulevard and Habana.

18:10:26:22 The site is located in between Gomez and Habana.
18:10:31:18 It is just south of Hillsborough Avenue, which is
18:10:34:07 identified as a major arterial.
18:10:36:21 And, of course, MLK to the south is also identified as
18:10:40:03 a major arterial.
18:10:41:24 This particular part of Habana is the only part of
18:10:46:15 Habana that is a five-lane highway.
18:10:49:18 You have a center turning lane and then you have two
18:10:51:21 lanes on either side.
18:10:53:00 So this is the very unique characteristic of this
18:10:56:03 particular part of Habana.
18:10:57:24 Which is probably one of the reasons why we do have a
18:11:00:22 policy in the comprehensive plan that lends to the
18:11:04:07 consideration of changing, allowing parcels along this
18:11:07:28 segment of Habana Avenue to be changed from residential
18:11:10:24 consideration to nonresidential consideration,
18:11:13:06 primarily medical office uses as the site is located in
18:11:17:07 fairly close proximity to St. Joseph's Hospital to the
18:11:19:21 south.
18:11:20:06 I want to talk a little bit about the character of the
18:11:22:13 area.
18:11:22:24 I'm going to show you a little bit -- I'll show you
18:11:27:13 different scale, but show you the site specific itself.
18:11:29:21 It is vacant land.
18:11:30:27 There are a lot of oaks on the side.

18:11:33:03 As you can see, and again, lending to the character of
18:11:35:18 this particular segment of Habana, you can see it is a
18:11:39:06 five-lane highway.
18:11:40:06 There is a turning lane.
18:11:41:07 This little bit of construction over here is an
18:11:44:12 assistive living facility just constructed recently and
18:11:47:19 completed.
18:11:48:04 This is a little bit greater scale to give you an idea
18:11:52:18 of the overall character of this segment of Habana.
18:11:55:16 As you can see on the western side, there is a large
18:11:58:07 vegetated area to the west of the particular site.
18:12:01:09 This is Gomez.
18:12:02:27 There are two elderly facilities.
18:12:08:15 This is basically assisted care.
18:12:11:18 It's not really assisted care.
18:12:13:09 It's care for the elderly, but it's affordable housing
18:12:16:09 for the elderly in the area.
18:12:17:21 There are two that this Council approved in the last --
18:12:22:28 in the last probably year and a half.
18:12:24:18 There were two zonings approved for this particular
18:12:27:25 site.
18:12:28:06 This is MacDill Avenue farther to the west.
18:12:30:21 And this is pretty much, pretty solid single-family
18:12:33:21 residential uses except for right over here.
18:12:36:00 There are some apartments as far as this area is

18:12:38:10 concerned.
18:12:39:06 As one goes down Gomez over here, you'll see that the
18:12:42:03 grid is a lot different on this side of Habana than it
18:12:44:24 is on this side.
18:12:45:24 On this side, you can see the character is much more
18:12:48:15 solidly single-family detached residential uses.
18:12:51:00 There are some medical uses scattered along this part
18:12:53:16 of Habana Avenue, but to a much greater extent on the
18:12:57:12 western side.
18:12:57:27 The character is much different.
18:12:59:19 This is borne out by the future land use category for
18:13:02:19 this particular segment of Habana.
18:13:05:03 Residential 35 is pretty much along the eastern
18:13:07:06 segment, but only along the actual edge of Habana where
18:13:10:13 the rest of the land use, one goes east to Armenia
18:13:15:09 Avenue, you can see the land use category is
18:13:16:24 residential 10, which pretty much allows single-family
18:13:19:07 detached residential uses.
18:13:21:03 But you have residential 35 here.
18:13:23:16 Residential 35 here.
18:13:24:19 As you can see, along here also, based on the
18:13:27:12 parcelization that you can see, the segments of land
18:13:31:12 are much larger, which allows for consideration of the
18:13:33:25 types of uses that we've been talking about here that
18:13:36:00 are of a nonresidential nature.

18:13:38:09 If approved, this is what the proposed request would
18:13:43:01 look like as far as the land use category is concerned.
18:13:45:24 The site would change from residential 35 to
18:13:48:21 public/semi public.
18:13:50:03 Considerations in making a determination on the
18:13:55:24 request, again, goes back to the transportation
18:13:58:18 connectivity.
18:13:59:13 I have already told you about how this particular
18:14:02:03 segment of Habana is very unique and connects to the
18:14:05:24 north and to the south to two major arterial roads.
18:14:08:21 This is the only segment of Habana that has this unique
18:14:12:09 characteristic.
18:14:12:24 This is complementary to existing uses which already
18:14:16:00 currently you will see as one travels along this part
18:14:18:15 of Habana.
18:14:19:15 There are a lot of medical buildings, if you ever
18:14:21:28 traveled north of St. Joseph's Hospital, which I'm sure
18:14:24:16 many of you have, you will recall that this is home to
18:14:27:12 a variety of larger scale medical buildings of about
18:14:32:19 four to eight stories, not very far away at all from
18:14:35:04 this segment.
18:14:36:12 We're also talking about the proper use of infill
18:14:39:13 development.
18:14:39:28 This segment of this particular property has been
18:14:44:04 vacant for many years.

18:14:45:25 I said 30 years initially.
18:14:46:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Really 31.
18:14:49:25 >>TONY GARCIA: But who's counting?
18:14:53:27 Okay.
18:14:54:09 Thank you.
18:14:54:27 It's been vacant for quite a few years now, so we're
18:14:56:25 talking about being able to use the site.
18:15:00:01 What's interesting, also, is being able to -- the
18:15:03:10 provision of public facilities.
18:15:04:21 What I also wanted to mention, the public/semi public
18:15:08:15 land use category is an interesting category in that it
18:15:11:06 does not have a floor area ratio or does not have a
18:15:14:18 density requirement.
18:15:15:21 Most of our public/semi public uses are schools or
18:15:18:24 hospitals, airports.
18:15:19:19 Raymond James Stadium is a public/semi public.
18:15:24:06 HCC is public, semi public.
18:15:26:19 The purpose for that is these are uses used for the
18:15:28:15 public interest and for the public good, for general
18:15:31:21 public use.
18:15:32:09 So the potential for expansion is there.
18:15:34:06 That being said, I would also like to let you know that
18:15:40:06 that being the case, you still have the situation where
18:15:43:21 a site, as far as the development potential for a site,
18:15:47:06 even though it has a public/semi public would be

18:15:50:03 predicated on the existing physicality of the
18:15:52:03 particular parcel.
18:15:52:28 That's why I wanted to go to the trouble of showing you
18:15:57:25 the ground level version of the site, that it does have
18:16:00:16 quite a few trees.
18:16:01:06 And it is still in fairly close proximity to existing
18:16:04:13 residences in the area.
18:16:05:09 The good thing about it, I believe when it does get
18:16:07:15 into the rezoning process, which will be later on at a
18:16:10:27 later course in time, in a month or so from now or
18:16:13:18 maybe three months from now, you'll be able to go ahead
18:16:16:28 and see what the proposal will be from the applicant
18:16:21:00 regarding this particular site and how they will have
18:16:22:22 ingress and egress to the site.
18:16:24:12 As it relates to the comprehensive plan, the site is
18:16:32:03 consistent with the future land use element,
18:16:34:01 specifically policy A-1.2, concentrating public
18:16:39:00 facilities in activity centers and also the support of
18:16:41:04 major medical facilities, specifically the policy that
18:16:43:06 I told you about, which would permit office infill
18:16:45:18 development or encourages office infill development
18:16:48:00 along Habana between Hillsborough Avenue and Dr. Martin
18:16:50:18 Luther King Jr. Boulevard.
18:16:51:25 Also policy D-3.1 and 3.2 which talks about the
18:16:58:19 integration of development and proper mitigation of

18:17:00:22 potential adverse impacts.
18:17:02:15 Based on those findings of facts I told you, we made a
18:17:07:24 recommendation to the Planning Commission to find this
18:17:10:00 particular plan amendment from residential 35 to
18:17:12:06 public/semi public consistent with the comprehensive
18:17:14:18 plan, and we have forwarded that recommendation to you.
18:17:17:13 You have copies of the resolution, which were hand
18:17:20:28 delivered to you yesterday where the Planning
18:17:22:06 Commission found the proposed request consistent with
18:17:24:04 the comprehensive plan and unanimously approved staff's
18:17:27:16 recommendation.
18:17:27:27 That concludes my presentation on this particular plan
18:17:32:12 amendment.
18:17:32:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, he almost put me to
18:17:34:27 sleep.
18:17:35:12 That was the longest presentation ever made by the
18:17:37:15 Planning Commission.
18:17:38:09 There's only one correction.
18:17:39:18 The buildings are not elderly.
18:17:41:21 The buildings are relatively new, sir.
18:17:50:12 And the people are not elderly.
18:17:51:22 They are in the prime of their life.
18:17:53:07 Mr. Chairman asked me to correct you every time you
18:17:55:15 come here, and I'm keeping my eye on you.
18:17:57:25 That's all.

18:17:59:12 >>TONY GARCIA: Mr. Miranda, I'm so grateful you are
18:18:01:15 here to keep me in line.
18:18:07:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
18:18:08:06 This is a public hearing.
18:18:12:06 Anyone want to address Council?
18:18:17:15 >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Council.
18:18:19:28 Jim Porter representing the applicant.
18:18:22:22 Mr. Garcia did do a very comprehensive job.
18:18:25:13 We will be coming back with you with a rezoning.
18:18:27:21 It has to be a plan development with specific
18:18:30:00 conditions.
18:18:30:15 We've been working very closely with the neighborhood.
18:18:32:28 I don't think anyone is here tonight, but we are
18:18:35:01 working with them.
18:18:36:18 We're happy to answer any questions.
18:18:38:03 We have our whole team here.
18:18:39:25 Other than that, we ask for your approval.
18:18:41:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
18:18:42:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
18:18:44:09 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Second.
18:18:45:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, aye?
18:18:47:00 Opposed?
18:18:47:15 Mr. Miranda.
18:18:50:21 Councilman Miranda.
18:18:54:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is an ordinance -- Mr. Garcia

18:18:59:24 got me confused.
18:19:00:28 This is an ordinance for first reading.
18:19:02:16 An ordinance amending the Tampa comprehensive plan
18:19:04:19 future land use element future land use map for the
18:19:07:22 property located in the general vicinity of 4918 north
18:19:11:06 Habana Avenue from residential 35 to public/semi
18:19:14:15 public, providing for all to repeal all ordinances in
18:19:17:19 conflict, providing for severability, providing an
18:19:19:04 effective date.
18:19:19:19 Move for approval first reading.
18:19:23:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
18:19:24:13 Council, just a reminder, because this is a small scale
18:19:27:01 plan amendment, it does require five votes.
18:19:29:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move and second.
18:19:30:12 Seconded by councilwoman Mulhern.
18:19:32:15 All in favor, aye.
18:19:33:15 Opposed?
18:19:35:25 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder being
18:19:38:01 absent and Saul-Sena being absent at vote.
18:19:40:00 Second reading and adoption, January 8th, 9:30 a.m.
18:19:43:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open public hearing 9 and
18:19:47:06 10.
18:19:47:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
18:19:50:03 Item 9 and 10 are the brownfields.
18:19:56:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Shall we take them one at a time?

18:20:00:03 >> Yes.
18:20:03:00 >> Good evening, Council.
18:20:03:07 My name is Cathy Ginster.
18:20:03:15 I'm an assistant City Attorney assigned to the
18:20:06:22 brownfields program.
18:20:08:13 I'm here regarding the second public hearing scheduled
18:20:12:01 for item 9, which is for EnviroFocus technologies, LLC.
18:20:16:13 This is the second public hearing.
18:20:19:24 The applicants are required under state law to go
18:20:24:00 through the same process as they would have to go
18:20:26:28 through for city ordinance approved, with two public
18:20:30:07 hearings scheduled before Council.
18:20:31:21 In addition, they were also required by state law of a
18:20:35:01 on-site public hearing to give the neighbors a better
18:20:38:13 opportunity to give some input and comment on the plan.
18:20:42:00 The plan and the application has been on file with the
18:20:44:27 city clerk since the first public hearing that was
18:20:47:10 scheduled before Council on November 20th, and city
18:20:53:03 staff reviewed the entire application and recommends,
18:20:59:24 that this brownfield designation be approved.
18:21:02:09 At the close of the public hearing, there's a
18:21:03:27 resolution presented to City Council for your approval.
18:21:06:21 For the brownfield designation.
18:21:10:09 Thank you.
18:21:12:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wish to address Council on item

18:21:15:06 9?
18:21:19:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
18:21:20:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
18:21:20:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, aye.
18:21:23:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Chairman, I move the resolution.
18:21:24:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
18:21:27:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
18:21:28:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
18:21:29:18 Seconded by Mr. Miranda.
18:21:30:25 All in favor, signify by saying aye.
18:21:32:25 Opposed?
18:21:33:15 So moved.
18:21:34:00 Number 10.
18:21:36:21 >> Thank you, Council.
18:21:38:09 I'm here today on the proposed resolution for approval
18:21:42:12 of brownfield designation.
18:21:44:15 And this one is for the Varela apartments, LLC
18:21:48:15 applicant.
18:21:49:00 The same procedures and recommendation are incorporated
18:21:52:03 from my prior comments on item 9.
18:21:54:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
18:21:55:12 Anyone wish to address Council on item 10?
18:21:58:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
18:21:59:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
18:21:59:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.

18:22:01:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Move the resolution.
18:22:04:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
18:22:05:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
18:22:06:01 Seconded by Councilman Miranda.
18:22:07:27 All in favor, signify by aye.
18:22:10:03 So moved.
18:22:11:22 >> Thank you very much.
18:22:24:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda, please.
18:22:26:00 The chair yields --
18:22:56:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead sir.
18:22:57:19 >> Brad bird, Tampa Water Department.
18:23:00:00 I am pleased and honored to participate in the award
18:23:03:13 ceremony for the water-wise awards for the City of
18:23:07:15 Tampa.
18:23:08:00 It's sponsored by Tampa Bay Water, the City of Tampa
18:23:12:15 Water Department, Hillsborough County water resources,
18:23:16:03 and Hillsborough County extension services and
18:23:19:24 coordinated by marina DIABRO who is here today.
18:23:26:21 If you would like to come up and join us in the
18:23:29:12 ceremony.
18:23:29:24 I want to say first the timing of the water-wise awards
18:23:36:04 could not be better.
18:23:37:09 As a result of abnormally low rainfall, our
18:23:40:06 Hillsborough River flows in October and November are at
18:23:45:03 record lows for those two months.

18:23:47:27 They are, just to put it in perspective, our river
18:23:51:06 flows are at 30 million gallons a day.
18:23:54:22 Our demand in City of Tampa is above 70 million gallons
18:23:58:21 a day.
18:23:59:12 40 million gallon a day deficit.
18:24:01:18 So as a result of these serious conditions, the water
18:24:04:09 management district has declared a severe water
18:24:06:27 shortage.
18:24:08:24 So this is why we're asking everyone in Tampa to
18:24:11:18 conserve water in any way they can.
18:24:14:01 People like the award winners that we're about to
18:24:20:25 announce that are really the folks that set the
18:24:26:18 example.
18:24:34:15 Our saving water.
18:24:35:15 It all adds up, and we thank them very much for what
18:24:38:22 they are doing.
18:24:39:18 Real quickly, what makes a yard a water-wise yard.
18:24:45:27 It's right plant, right place.
18:24:48:06 Which is all about Florida friendly landscaping in the
18:24:51:21 right place.
18:24:52:13 It's also about stormwater runoff prevention.
18:24:56:25 Prevents pollutants from getting into our waterways.
18:25:00:06 And finally, about efficient irrigation.
18:25:02:18 A well-designed system that delivers the right amount
18:25:05:24 of water for each landscape material.

18:25:10:06 With that, we have two award recipients.
18:25:18:25 I'll ask Andrea Rosshaven to come up.
18:25:23:06 This is not rehearsed.
18:25:32:24 We have a residential award, and we have a commercial
18:25:34:25 award.
18:25:35:15 First, the residential award.
18:25:39:09 I'd like mike and beck Eisenfeld to -- Beth Eisenfeld
18:25:44:12 to come forward.
18:25:45:07 And you can see on the screen pictures of their
18:25:49:28 residence in Hyde Park, I believe.
18:25:53:21 And it shows Florida friendly landscaping.
18:26:01:18 >> We have a few pictures.
18:26:05:09 >> We can show there's -- I don't know the name of the
18:26:08:18 plants.
18:26:09:03 I'd have to get Andrea to come up here and tell me
18:26:11:25 that.
18:26:12:06 Do you want to talk about it?
18:26:13:28 It blends into the neighborhood real nicely, as you can
18:26:17:12 see.
18:26:17:27 In the backyard, they even have microirrigation in
18:26:24:01 their garden and their potted plants.
18:26:28:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: There used to be this perception
18:26:30:21 that if you had a Florida friendly yard, that it was
18:26:38:22 sort of barren and desert-like and wasn't green and
18:26:42:13 lush and you were sort of deprived and the word

18:26:46:15 xeriscaping sounded like the word zero, that you were
18:26:49:10 getting by with bare minimum, sort of hostile looking
18:26:55:15 plants.
18:26:55:27 What you are showing is very beautiful and green, the
18:26:58:28 kind of yard we all aspire to.
18:27:01:09 And I think that's a really important message to get
18:27:04:24 out to the public, that Florida friendly doesn't mean
18:27:08:09 deprivation.
18:27:09:00 It just means appropriate.
18:27:12:01 >>MARY MULHERN: I notice it's also edible, the
18:27:14:27 backyard.
18:27:18:09 >> Councilwoman Saul-Sena, you are right on the mark.
18:27:20:16 People think of xeriscape as a front lawn -- I mean,
18:27:24:27 front yard with rocks, like you see out west sometimes.
18:27:28:03 You know, really, in Florida, we are fortunate enough
18:27:31:27 to have many native species that can survive with very
18:27:37:19 low amounts of irrigation.
18:27:39:18 And it looks like this if you do it right.
18:27:42:06 And it is beautiful.
18:27:44:04 It's a great example.
18:27:48:22 We have a little award for Mr. and Mrs. Eisenfeld.
18:27:58:28 >> Congratulations.
18:28:00:16 [ APPLAUSE ]
18:28:09:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
18:28:10:06 Michael and Beth, don't leave, the Eisenfelds.

18:28:13:12 Mr. Chairman, I remember as a City Council, you know,
18:28:15:27 all of us on Council are very aware of the serious
18:28:18:18 situation that we have in this area on water.
18:28:22:03 It's been the same water that we've had around the
18:28:25:12 Earth for a million years.
18:28:26:25 The problem is, 40 years ago, we had maybe 4 million
18:28:29:24 people.
18:28:30:06 Now we're approaching 19 million people here in
18:28:33:00 Florida.
18:28:33:07 But the Eisenfelds have taken a step forward, a step to
18:28:38:01 make it acceptable, beautiful, and above all, very
18:28:42:09 water-wise.
18:28:43:12 And every Thursday, myself and Council members, I speak
18:28:46:25 about water because I know what's coming in February
18:28:50:21 and March.
18:28:53:10 Unless we had rains like we had today, we'll be in dire
18:28:56:06 need of what we get in water.
18:28:59:06 I'm not putting a scare to everyone, I'm asking
18:29:02:21 everybody to conserve by at least 10%, and that's not
18:29:05:28 too hard to do.
18:29:07:03 On behalf of Tampa City Council to both Michael -- that
18:29:09:27 thing weighs too much.
18:29:11:00 I'll give this to Beth.
18:29:12:09 That drops on my foot, we're missing a Council member.
18:29:15:18 On behalf of the Tampa City Council, we're certainly

18:29:18:27 appreciative of everything you've done, not only for
18:29:21:10 your home and your neighborhood, but for being the
18:29:23:21 inspiration for all the citizens and the great City of
18:29:26:22 Tampa.
18:29:27:04 Thank you, both, very much.
18:29:29:10 [ APPLAUSE ]
18:29:34:15 >> Okay.
18:29:36:15 Well, this year is the first year that we can find on
18:29:39:03 record that we've actually issued an award in the
18:29:41:24 commercial category.
18:29:42:19 So it's not just residential.
18:29:46:10 And I'd like to call Steven Cass up.
18:29:50:00 Oh, Spencer, I'm sorry.
18:29:55:27 Spencer Cass.
18:29:57:06 Representing Landmarc Realty.
18:29:59:04 There's a picture of Mr. Cass' business up.
18:30:06:04 And you can see the same thing.
18:30:08:19 We have organic mulch with ground cover and Florida
18:30:12:27 friendly landscaping as well.
18:30:15:06 Watered with microirrigation.
18:30:19:12 And you can see a close-up of the microirrigation,
18:30:22:03 which is instead of gallons per minute that you see in
18:30:27:00 the big sprinklers, this is gallons per hour.
18:30:29:15 It's right in the middle there.
18:30:32:04 It's specific to that plant.

18:30:34:15 And it gives it just what it needs.
18:30:36:27 You have another picture?
18:30:39:16 So with that, we have another award for Spencer.
18:30:54:19 [ APPLAUSE ]
18:30:54:27 I think Council member Miranda has an award as well.
18:31:02:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Spencer, on behalf of City Council
18:31:04:21 and for you and Landmarc Realty, I pass by this
18:31:07:28 location every day on my way home.
18:31:10:04 I'm jealous.
18:31:11:00 It looks very, very nice.
18:31:12:21 You also have set a standard, not only for the
18:31:15:13 residential community, but for the business community
18:31:17:25 to see that your standard is achievable.
18:31:21:28 It's cost-effective, and it makes your place, your
18:31:26:06 neighborhood and the City of Tampa look much better.
18:31:28:12 And I hope all of us take that heed and continue and
18:31:31:25 watch nature on that channel 284, you learn a lot of
18:31:35:12 things, how you mix this stuff and they put it down,
18:31:38:03 looks like concrete, but seeps down.
18:31:40:21 The water doesn't run off.
18:31:42:16 It stays in your own home.
18:31:44:15 Thank you very much.
18:31:44:27 [ APPLAUSE ]
18:31:51:25 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to suggest to Mr. Cass
18:31:55:21 that he talk to the Eisenfelds with the real estate

18:31:59:04 market in the bad shape it's in, you could become an
18:32:02:13 organic gardener where all that mulch is, you could be
18:32:06:24 growing tomatoes or --
18:32:11:06 >> Congratulations.
18:32:13:24 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open item 12.
18:32:16:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have matters of cleanup.
18:32:19:19 I believe Ms. Feeley will be coming.
18:32:36:01 >>GWEN MILLER: You have items to clean up first?
18:32:39:18 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes, ma'am.
18:32:48:18 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Abbye Feeley, Land Development
18:32:50:03 Coordination.
18:32:51:06 What I'm passing out to you is a mock-up agenda for the
18:32:55:06 remaining items.
18:32:57:07 Items 12 through 20.
18:32:58:28 I'd like to go through those now.
18:33:01:07 Item number 12 cannot be heard.
18:33:05:13 There was an e-mail requesting that it be rescheduled
18:33:08:00 to April 2009.
18:33:11:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we need to open that?
18:33:13:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No.
18:33:14:03 I believe -- what would be the appropriate motion here?
18:33:16:21 It can't be heard.
18:33:18:09 Would it be to allow them to reschedule it?
18:33:21:00 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Actually, if you would remove it from
18:33:23:00 the agenda, it can be rescheduled.

18:33:26:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Can't be heard because the affidavit
18:33:28:15 hadn't been filed.
18:33:29:18 It's appropriate to remove from the agenda.
18:33:31:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Move to remove from the agenda.
18:33:38:03 >>ABBYE FEELEY: It cannot be heard.
18:33:40:00 It was improperly noticed.
18:33:42:15 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
18:33:44:00 All in favor, aye.
18:33:45:00 We need a motion to schedule for April -- what day in
18:33:48:13 April 2009?
18:33:49:21 >>ABBYE FEELEY: If you just remove it, we'll reschedule
18:33:52:06 it from Land Development.
18:33:54:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
18:33:56:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Renotify the neighborhood.
18:33:58:12 >>ABBYE FEELEY: It will need to be renoticed, yes.
18:34:01:12 Item number 15, there is -- there was an e-mail request
18:34:05:25 that that case be continued.
18:34:08:21 Oh, I'm sorry.
18:34:10:00 That was also improperly noticed, so it would need to
18:34:13:06 be rescheduled, and we would like it rescheduled for
18:34:15:24 February 26th.
18:34:17:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
18:34:18:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion and second.
18:34:21:03 All in favor, aye.
18:34:22:00 Opposed, nay.

18:34:22:21 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Item number 16, Land Development
18:34:27:15 received a facsimile from Andrea Zelman on
18:34:30:12 December 5th requesting continuance to
18:34:32:21 February 12th.
18:34:35:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe this one would have to be
18:34:36:27 opened.
18:34:37:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So move to open.
18:34:38:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
18:34:40:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
18:34:43:07 Anyone from the public want to speak to Council on the
18:34:48:12 continuance?
18:34:50:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to continue to February 12th,
18:34:52:27 2009.
18:34:54:21 6:00.
18:34:55:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
18:34:56:16 All in favor, signify by aye.
18:35:00:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question on the previous
18:35:03:13 one that couldn't be heard.
18:35:04:21 I noticed a member of the -- a neighborhood
18:35:08:12 representative was here, what do we do to ensure that
18:35:10:22 when things can't be heard because, you know, things
18:35:14:12 weren't filed properly, that we let the neighborhood
18:35:17:03 representatives know?
18:35:20:01 >>ABBYE FEELEY: That is actually processed by the
18:35:22:01 clerk's office, because the affidavits are filed with

18:35:25:04 them 15 days prior to.
18:35:27:06 Typically, the clerk's office, and I can't speak -- Jim
18:35:33:10 crew might be able to speak to that further, they do
18:35:36:01 put that on the agenda.
18:35:37:06 If you would have pulled the agenda from the Web site
18:35:39:10 this morning, you would see that it wasn't filed and it
18:35:43:24 could not be heard.
18:35:44:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do you do that?
18:35:47:16 >> We do note on the draft agenda which items cannot be
18:35:50:24 heard due to having no affidavit filed, yes.
18:35:53:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: How far in advance is that put out
18:35:56:12 there?
18:35:58:03 >>THE CLERK: That's normally 10 days before the
18:36:00:01 meeting.
18:36:00:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
18:36:02:21 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Item number 17 was also improperly
18:36:05:12 noticed.
18:36:06:12 And we would like that to be rescheduled for
18:36:09:00 February 12th at 6 p.m.
18:36:14:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Move that it be rescheduled to
18:36:15:24 February 12th, 2009 at 6 p.m.
18:36:18:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
18:36:21:15 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Number 19 was also improperly noticed.
18:36:26:12 That one we would ask that that be rescheduled for
18:36:29:21 January 29th at 6 p.m.

18:36:32:28 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved to be scheduled for
18:36:35:00 January 29th, 2008 --
18:36:38:15 >>ABBYE FEELEY: 2009.
18:36:41:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
18:36:41:24 2009.
18:36:42:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
18:36:44:03 All in favor, signify by aye.
18:36:45:25 Opposed?
18:36:46:15 Okay.
18:36:46:21 >>ABBYE FEELEY: The last one, item number 20, needs to
18:36:51:24 be rescheduled, if possible February 12, 2009, 6 p.m.
18:36:56:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to reschedule February 12, 2009,
18:36:59:24 6 p.m.
18:37:00:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
18:37:02:24 >>ABBYE FEELEY: That leaves items 13, 14, and 18 to be
18:37:07:12 heard this evening.
18:37:09:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question.
18:37:10:18 Did something change about the affidavit process?
18:37:12:21 Because we have an extraordinary number that aren't
18:37:15:04 going to be heard because their affidavits weren't
18:37:18:15 filed properly.
18:37:19:06 Did we change the process or something?
18:37:21:24 >>ABBYE FEELEY: No, ma'am.
18:37:22:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do you know why there was such a
18:37:27:09 crop of folks that didn't get their paperwork?

18:37:30:27 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I know on a couple of the cases, I
18:37:35:21 think on two of the cases, they didn't have intent to
18:37:38:19 move forward.
18:37:39:12 There were things that they needed to change, so, I
18:37:42:09 guess, they didn't file their affidavit.
18:37:44:15 They will need to pay $300 amendment fee, and the city
18:37:48:03 and themselves will need to renotice for the next
18:37:50:24 scheduled hearing date.
18:37:52:00 So public notice again will be required.
18:37:55:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
18:37:55:27 So the items we will be hearing tonight, items 13, 14,
18:38:03:00 18.
18:38:03:13 >> Move to open.
18:38:04:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
18:38:06:09 Everyone will be addressing Council, please stand and
18:38:10:19 be sworn tonight.
18:38:12:03 If you are going to be speaking to Council, please
18:38:15:06 stand and be sworn in.
18:38:16:19 (Oath administered by clerk).
18:38:21:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I believe there are
18:38:23:00 items that have been available for public inspection in
18:38:25:06 City Council's office.
18:38:26:01 I ask that they be received and filed prior to action.
18:38:29:18 >> Move to receive and file.
18:38:30:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.

18:38:32:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Secondly, Mr. Chairman, a reminder, if
18:38:35:21 there's been any ex parte communications relative to
18:38:39:03 any tonight's hearings, please, Council, disclose prior
18:38:41:27 to taking any action.
18:38:43:00 Lastly, there was a sign-up sheet outside stating City
18:38:45:24 Council's policies.
18:38:46:24 Please be sure you sign it and be sure that when you do
18:38:50:07 get up, you reaffirm that you have been sworn and if
18:38:53:03 you have not been, please so state it.
18:38:55:06 Thank you.
18:38:57:18 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Good evening, Council.
18:38:58:25 Abbye Feeley, Land Development.
18:39:01:09 Case Z08-65 is located at 5200 West Tyson Avenue.
18:39:07:04 The request this evening before you is from PD to PD
18:39:10:15 for private yacht club, public marina sales and repair.
18:39:14:03 This case was before you under Z07-66.
18:39:20:21 If you'll look at page one of your staff report, the
18:39:23:21 first four waivers there were previously approved
18:39:28:06 waivers.
18:39:28:18 One was to allow 85-foot maximum height.
18:39:32:12 Another was to waive from 20% to 17.8% the vehicle use
18:39:38:03 area greenspace.
18:39:40:21 The third was to allow two smaller 60-square-foot
18:39:46:13 ground signs to be separated, reduce separation from
18:39:50:21 150 feet to 40 feet.

18:39:53:03 And the fourth was to allow additional wall signs.
18:39:58:00 There are two new waivers being requested.
18:40:00:27 One is to allow for 100% off-street parking to be
18:40:04:28 surfaced with turf block.
18:40:06:22 The last is to reduce the required greenspace from 20%
18:40:10:00 to 15.4% for phase two.
18:40:13:10 And that should actually be 15.3%.
18:40:16:09 Make that correction.
18:40:18:03 This was the rattle fish site that was rezoned for a
18:40:23:15 private yacht club with a boat barn.
18:40:26:06 What they are doing is they are asking for the addition
18:40:29:13 of a use that was not previously approved, and that is
18:40:32:09 for public marina sales and repair.
18:40:35:06 If you'll look on page 2 of my staff report, I showed
18:40:39:15 you what was previously approved in square footages and
18:40:43:00 then what they are doing now, they are looking to phase
18:40:45:18 it with a phase one and a phase two, and also
18:40:48:21 cumulatively reduce the total development on the site.
18:40:52:00 Go ahead and show you some pictures of the site.
18:40:58:13 This is zoning atlas page.
18:41:08:09 Tyson to the north.
18:41:10:18 Gandy, of course, north of the site.
18:41:14:06 Bridge Street that comes down over there.
18:41:17:24 It doesn't go all the way through.
18:41:19:13 This PDO over here is the new port development.

18:41:25:24 This is an aerial of the site.
18:41:32:01 I have a few photos of the existing development on the
18:41:40:21 site.
18:41:41:06 There are offices.
18:41:45:24 This is the rattle fish.
18:41:48:13 The previous rattle fish restaurant.
18:41:50:19 There's now a pool outside there.
18:41:52:12 And you recently wet zoned that property as well.
18:41:56:19 So the picture of the boat barn.
18:42:03:21 This is the service area that's currently on the site
18:42:07:18 that will be -- remain for use of service.
18:42:13:01 There are some revisions that need to be made in
18:42:17:25 between first and second reading.
18:42:19:18 As you can see from Land Development Coordination, we
18:42:24:01 would like the phasing table that I provided in my
18:42:26:22 staff report to be the table that is put on the site
18:42:29:18 plans.
18:42:30:03 Right now, what they have on there is a little bit
18:42:32:18 confusing.
18:42:33:13 And they were carrying over square footages, so I
18:42:37:01 wanted that to be clear.
18:42:39:00 Transportation has a couple revisions also that are
18:42:42:22 necessary related to parking spaces in the boat staging
18:42:47:27 area.
18:42:48:19 Adding a note for clarifying that the drive aisles and

18:42:51:18 parking spaces will be paved.
18:42:53:19 And also a new waiver needs to state to allow for 89%
18:42:57:24 of the parking spaces to be turf blocks.
18:43:00:04 So they would pave, it wouldn't be 100%.
18:43:04:09 Solid waste also had some notations they wanted.
18:43:08:09 They also needed the visual depiction of the 10-by-10
18:43:11:27 dumpster removed.
18:43:12:24 And they had some additional notations for phase two.
18:43:15:15 Lastly, on the revision handout I passed you, there is
18:43:19:16 one last revision that came from the petitioner this
18:43:22:00 afternoon that I alluded to when I gave my presentation
18:43:27:03 for the variance from 20% to 15.2% for the greenspace
18:43:32:12 and then a staging of payment.
18:43:35:24 They have paid their greenspace waiver fee for the in
18:43:39:27 lieu for the first phase and then they would pay when
18:43:42:15 they pulled building permits on the second phase for
18:43:45:19 that remaining waiver.
18:43:47:21 Staff is available for any questions.
18:43:54:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Planning Commission?
18:44:00:19 >>TONY GARCIA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
18:44:02:07 Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.
18:44:03:22 I have been sworn.
18:44:04:18 Just several additional comments to add on to
18:44:06:27 Ms. Feeley's comments.
18:44:08:19 As far as future land use is concerned, the land use

18:44:10:25 for this particular property is heavy industrial as we
18:44:14:27 can see.
18:44:15:06 Of course, you have heavy industrial to the north.
18:44:17:25 This is community mixed use-35 to the west and parcel
18:44:22:06 up here is also CMU-35.
18:44:24:09 CMU-35 to the east is where the Westshore yacht and
18:44:27:06 country club is.
18:44:27:28 EMU-60 is the land use category over here, which is
18:44:33:25 where the other mixed use development was that she
18:44:36:03 referred to also.
18:44:37:00 Basically, this is on that point referred to as
18:44:39:13 rattlesnake point.
18:44:40:27 It is south of Gandy Boulevard just west of Westshore
18:44:43:21 Boulevard in the south Tampa area.
18:44:47:09 Here's an aerial for the site.
18:44:50:16 As Ms. Feeley has also stated to you, this was brought
18:44:53:09 to you twice before in 2007 for the uses that she had
18:44:57:21 already told you about.
18:44:58:25 One was for the initial request and then, of course, a
18:45:01:01 modification to allow office use.
18:45:03:25 Of course, tonight to allow for marina use and for boat
18:45:06:15 repair.
18:45:07:00 The Planning Commission found the proposed request
18:45:09:15 consistent with the comprehensive plan.
18:45:13:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions, Council?

18:45:18:27 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: I don't know who can answer this
18:45:20:09 question.
18:45:20:19 In our code, can you define what a yacht club is or
18:45:27:25 what do you call this?
18:45:29:00 What I'm referring to is down on Sandpiper Road where
18:45:40:09 we have that barge, that's supposed to be a yacht club.
18:45:44:15 Are you familiar with that?
18:45:47:15 >>ABBYE FEELEY: No, sir, I am not.
18:45:50:06 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Anyone from staff who is not familiar
18:45:53:09 with it?
18:45:57:27 >> That's a different issue.
18:45:58:27 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: It's still a yacht club.
18:46:00:15 >>ABBYE FEELEY: In this case, this is a site plan
18:46:02:15 controlled zoning.
18:46:03:13 It does list that as the proposed use.
18:46:05:19 That's how it's categorizing the use.
18:46:08:07 And the use as defined by the buildings and uses shown
18:46:12:04 on the site are controlled that way.
18:46:13:27 I'm not sure, necessarily, in relation to the
18:46:16:28 definition what you'd like.
18:46:19:06 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: So my question is, what's considered
18:46:21:04 a yacht?
18:46:25:25 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I don't believe that our code defines
18:46:27:18 that.
18:46:28:01 It would be a recreational vehicle or a vessel of some

18:46:31:00 sort.
18:46:31:09 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Recreational watercraft.
18:46:33:24 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes.
18:46:38:06 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: A barge would not fall into that
18:46:40:03 category, correct?
18:46:40:24 Well, this came before us.
18:46:47:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It depends.
18:46:48:22 If you want to move real slow, then it does.
18:46:52:12 If you want to move real fast, then it doesn't.
18:46:54:25 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: This came to us because it went to
18:46:56:24 the variance review board.
18:47:00:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's a different case.
18:47:01:04 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: I know it's a different case.
18:47:03:12 But if we're going to rezone something here for a yacht
18:47:06:13 club, are they going to be bringing barges in there?
18:47:10:09 That's my question.
18:47:11:06 I think that's a legitimate question.
18:47:13:24 >>REBECCA KERT: Rebecca Kert, Legal Department.
18:47:16:01 I'm somewhat familiar with the case that you're talking
18:47:18:15 about.
18:47:18:27 That's not an analogous situation because that was a
18:47:21:10 question of a nonconforming use issue and whether you
18:47:25:12 agree with the decision or not, the question there was,
18:47:27:28 what was allowed based upon what was there prior to our
18:47:31:00 zoning code.

18:47:31:18 So that's a different one.
18:47:33:06 I have been advised that there's a definition of what a
18:47:35:21 yacht club is and perhaps the applicant can speak to
18:47:38:09 that.
18:47:40:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I think that is a legitimate question
18:47:42:04 since -- we do need a definition.
18:47:49:01 But my question is for -- Abbye, I think it's for you.
18:47:52:15 I don't know if you wrote this report, but hopefully
18:47:54:10 you'll be able to fill me in.
18:47:55:21 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I did.
18:47:57:00 >>MARY MULHERN: On your -- on the report on the
18:47:59:21 petition to rezone on previously approved section 1, it
18:48:06:07 says, and the trend in the area is toward building
18:48:10:18 heights greater than 85 feet.
18:48:12:22 Do we have some examples of buildings in that area that
18:48:18:27 are higher than 85 feet?
18:48:21:13 >>ABBYE FEELEY: There is a residential condo tower in
18:48:23:16 close proximity to this that is far greater than
18:48:26:15 85 feet.
18:48:27:15 The Westshore yacht club, yes.
18:48:31:16 And then, of course, you know new port to the northeast
18:48:36:00 as well.
18:48:37:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Nothing has been built --
18:48:39:13 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Not to date, no.
18:48:40:24 But those improved entitlements do exist as far as the

18:48:43:16 trend for the development in that area.
18:48:46:13 >>MARY MULHERN: The trend in the zoning.
18:48:47:24 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes.
18:48:52:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Westshore yacht club really does stand
18:48:55:00 out in that area, though.
18:48:56:10 Because it's the only -- it's the only building taller
18:48:59:21 than one or maybe two stories I think in that whole
18:49:03:24 area.
18:49:05:06 >>ABBYE FEELEY: This is built.
18:49:06:01 This is existing today.
18:49:06:27 >>MARY MULHERN: The 85 feet is already built?
18:49:09:15 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes, this is built.
18:49:10:22 This project is built.
18:49:11:27 Predominantly phase one of the project is completed.
18:49:14:18 What is before you today is adding this use of public
18:49:18:07 marina sales and repair, which was not previously
18:49:21:09 approved, and the phasing of the development.
18:49:23:27 >>MARY MULHERN: So we already approved these waivers?
18:49:25:27 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes.
18:49:26:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, okay.
18:49:28:07 Sorry.
18:49:28:15 >>ABBYE FEELEY: As you know, people do come, after a
18:49:31:09 PD, you can come administratively through Land
18:49:33:27 Development to get other things approved.
18:49:35:15 What you cannot get approved is a use not previously

18:49:38:03 approved by City Council.
18:49:39:03 Therefore, sometimes PDs come back before you in
18:49:41:19 order to add uses that were not previously approved.
18:49:44:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
18:49:46:12 Petitioner?
18:49:49:03 >> Good evening, Mr. Chairman and members of the
18:49:51:03 Council.
18:49:51:12 For the record, Michael brooks, 500 East Kennedy
18:49:53:00 Boulevard, suite 200, Tampa 33602.
18:49:57:06 I have been sworn.
18:49:58:09 I'm here this evening on behalf of the Tampa harbor
18:50:01:15 yacht club, which I think will forever be known as the
18:50:04:21 old rattle fish.
18:50:05:24 We all know where the location is.
18:50:07:09 I think this Council presided over the last rezonings.
18:50:11:21 Ms. Feeley correctly pointed out, there are essentially
18:50:15:00 two uses that are currently approved.
18:50:17:03 A private yacht club --
18:50:18:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Brooks, hold up just for a second.
18:50:23:06 Is there anyone here that want to speak on this
18:50:26:18 petition?
18:50:26:27 Anyone here want to speak, anyone in opposition, anyone
18:50:30:21 opposed to it?
18:50:32:07 Anyone want to say anything?
18:50:33:18 Okay.

18:50:34:06 Thank you very kindly.
18:50:35:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
18:50:36:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
18:50:37:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
18:50:38:16 All in favor, signify by saying aye.
18:50:40:27 Mr. Miranda?
18:50:44:22 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: I want to ask a question.
18:50:46:00 I don't know who is going to answer, but I want to get
18:50:55:19 an answer.
18:50:56:12 My question is, are they going to be permitted to bring
18:51:00:06 a barge in there?
18:51:01:09 Or do you intend to bring a barge in there?
18:51:09:07 >> A barge, no, sir.
18:51:10:07 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Read what the code says, would you
18:51:13:00 please?
18:51:14:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to reopen the hearing so we can
18:51:17:10 distinguish.
18:51:18:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
18:51:30:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Caetano I believe had asked what
18:51:33:06 the definition in the code of a marina is?
18:51:37:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The question he's asking now to the
18:51:38:24 petitioner, whether they'll be bringing a barge in
18:51:40:24 there.
18:51:41:15 That's the question he just asked.
18:51:43:18 >> No.

18:51:44:00 The answer to that is no.
18:51:45:24 Council member, I would be willing to read for you the
18:51:49:21 definition of the private yacht club that's associated
18:51:53:12 with this rezoning.
18:51:54:12 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Yacht club called a marina?
18:51:57:19 >> Well, it's specifically called a private yacht club,
18:52:00:21 and I'll read it into the record.
18:52:00:28 A private recreation facility that stores, cleans,
18:52:04:03 prepares and launches boats for use by its members,
18:52:07:22 boats, storage slips owned and legally established
18:52:11:06 commercial condominium under chapter 718 and lease
18:52:14:19 slips to the club members.
18:52:16:03 The facility may also include accessory uses such as
18:52:18:27 food-related convenience retail sales, restaurants,
18:52:21:22 spa, fitness center, lounge, showers, rest rooms,
18:52:25:06 swimming pool, outdoor barbecue facilities provided
18:52:28:18 that all club facilities are private and reserved for
18:52:31:00 use by club members only.
18:52:32:21 In addition, all vehicular parking for boat and/or club
18:52:36:18 facility usage is by mandatory valet service.
18:52:40:03 I don't think that excludes barges.
18:52:47:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to further this.
18:52:48:25 They are zoned for private yacht club.
18:52:50:21 Now we know what you can do with the yacht club.
18:52:53:03 What they are adding is marina sales and repair.

18:52:56:21 If you're okay with that.
18:52:58:15 That's really the question.
18:52:59:15 Does marina sales and repair allow any more kind of
18:53:05:09 commercial or construction barges, boats?
18:53:10:09 We did have this come up, and it was very hotly
18:53:13:06 contested.
18:53:15:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Generally, you use a barge pretty much
18:53:18:06 for construction and moving things around.
18:53:20:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
18:53:20:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But he answered that question.
18:53:25:19 >>MARY MULHERN: Not my question.
18:53:26:27 He read us the yacht club definition.
18:53:29:00 Marina sales and repair is what they are adding to
18:53:31:21 this.
18:53:32:06 That's what we're being asked to approve.
18:53:35:03 I think that's the question.
18:53:39:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The question he asked was about barges.
18:53:42:06 He's answered that.
18:53:43:12 There will be no barges there.
18:53:44:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: He said no.
18:53:45:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Said no, no barges are coming in.
18:53:49:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
18:53:50:16 >>MARY MULHERN: My question is since we reopened the
18:53:55:19 public hearing --
18:53:56:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It's already open.

18:53:57:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
18:53:58:10 That's what I said.
18:53:59:03 Since we reopened the public hearing, I have a
18:54:01:06 question.
18:54:01:24 Does marina sales and repair allow for barges?
18:54:10:12 >> One of the solutions would be to add a note that
18:54:12:18 would exclude, specifically exclude barges if that was
18:54:15:24 Council's decision.
18:54:17:04 If that's the issue.
18:54:21:15 >> I don't believe that's a definition that specific to
18:54:25:21 say whether or not it includes barges.
18:54:27:09 It's my understanding that the public sales and repair
18:54:31:09 are going to occur in that area shown on the site plan
18:54:34:25 for sales and repair.
18:54:36:06 And I don't believe you could park a barge there.
18:54:39:04 But I would let the petitioner speak to that further.
18:54:42:18 >> We have no problem with a note in between reading
18:54:45:15 that would say no barges.
18:54:46:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
18:54:48:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You wanted that added?
18:54:50:01 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
18:54:50:24 If we can add that between first and second reading.
18:54:53:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
18:54:54:12 All right.
18:54:55:15 So the petitioner agrees to that.

18:54:57:00 Move to close.
18:54:58:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
18:54:59:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
18:55:04:12 Okay.
18:55:04:15 Mr. Miranda.
18:55:05:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This paper has been burning in my
18:55:09:03 hand to read.
18:55:09:18 [ LAUGHTER ]
18:55:10:06 Move an ordinance for first reading, Mr. Chairman.
18:55:14:22 Have some additions between first and second reading,
18:55:17:03 Mr. Chairman.
18:55:17:18 Ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of
18:55:20:09 5200 West Tyson Avenue, City of Tampa, Florida, and
18:55:23:21 more particular described section 1, from zoning
18:55:25:10 district classifications PD, planned development,
18:55:27:15 private yacht club, and PD, planned development private
18:55:31:03 yacht club, marina sales and repairs; providing an
18:55:33:28 effective date.
18:55:36:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
18:55:37:03 All in favor, signify --
18:55:39:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Between first and second reading.
18:55:42:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just ask, so the record is clear, the
18:55:42:21 maker of the motion, also includes the revision sheet
18:55:46:21 additions and the additional note about the barges.
18:55:48:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I said that about the barge in

18:55:51:10 between first and second reading will be amended and
18:55:53:25 also add what the counsel just said and anything else
18:55:56:09 anybody wants to throw in.
18:55:59:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Been moved and seconded.
18:56:00:18 All in favor, signify by aye.
18:56:02:28 Opposed?
18:56:03:18 All right.
18:56:04:03 Item 14.
18:56:06:10 >>THE CLERK: The item passed with Dingfelder being
18:56:09:16 absent, Caetano absent at vote.
18:56:12:00 Second reading and adoption January 8th at 9:30 a.m.
18:56:24:12 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Item number 14 on your agenda this
18:56:26:12 evening, Council, Abbye Feeley, Land Development
18:56:28:12 Coordination.
18:56:29:18 This is case Z08-67.
18:56:34:15 It's located at 1105 and 1115 Twiggs Street.
18:56:39:28 The request is from CD-3 Channel District residential
18:56:44:22 multifamily to CD-2 Channel District residential
18:56:47:10 multifamily.
18:56:47:21 Just to add a little aside, there is no longer a CD-3,
18:56:52:12 so anything that was previously zoned CD-3 that's going
18:56:55:24 to come before you is going to be CD-2, the site plan
18:57:01:12 controlled district and the Channel District.
18:57:04:04 There are six waivers associated with this.
18:57:06:09 One to reduce the required loading berths from five to

18:57:10:06 one.
18:57:10:18 One to allow for vehicles utilizing the loading berth
18:57:13:21 to maneuver in the right-of-way.
18:57:15:06 Three to reduce the required drive aisles from 26 to
18:57:18:12 24.
18:57:18:27 Four, to increase the percentage of on-site trees
18:57:21:27 removed.
18:57:22:15 What we have is a couple of items that I'm sure the
18:57:26:09 petitioner will speak to to clarify which way they
18:57:29:09 would like to proceed with that related to tree removal
18:57:32:12 and transplantation.
18:57:35:15 As you will see on page 2 and 3 of the report.
18:57:40:01 I won't go too far into those.
18:57:42:12 We just need to determine by the end of the hearing
18:57:44:18 which ones of those will need to be carried over
18:57:47:24 between first and second reading.
18:57:49:25 The petitioner is requesting a rezoning for the
18:57:53:24 property at 1105 and 1115 Twiggs Street to allow for
18:57:58:18 mixed use multifamily residential development.
18:58:00:13 2.26-acre site is currently zoned CD-3 for multifamily.
18:58:05:21 It is located in the Channel District.
18:58:07:01 Bordered by Twiggs Street to the north, Madison Street
18:58:09:12 to the south and Meridian to the west.
18:58:11:09 The Expressway Authority is located across Twiggs
18:58:13:07 Street to the north and grand central across Madison to

18:58:16:09 the south.
18:58:17:01 The proposed development is for 650 units contained in
18:58:22:00 two towers with a shared parking garage in the building
18:58:25:06 podium.
18:58:25:24 Design also includes 4,505-square-foot park with a
18:58:29:06 total of 3,602 gross square feet of greenspace to the
18:58:33:15 east of the building along Madison Street.
18:58:35:24 The setbacks are as follows: North 0.
18:58:38:12 South 0.
18:58:39:06 West 0 and east 0. Maximum building height is
18:58:42:21 246 feet, 6 inches to the top of the roof and 261 feet
18:58:46:19 to the top of the core tower.
18:58:48:22 650 parking spaces are required and 760 spaces are
18:58:53:19 being provided.
18:58:54:07 A total of 32% compact spaces are being incorporated.
18:58:58:03 This site is requesting bonus square footage based on
18:59:03:01 the CBD periphery.
18:59:05:24 The F.A.R. which is permitted is 3.5 and -- which would
18:59:10:01 permit 345,145 square feet.
18:59:14:04 They are proposing 626,838 square feet.
18:59:19:09 They have provided a bonus density analysis that was
18:59:21:27 reviewed by Catherine Coyle.
18:59:23:28 She has provided a memo and provided that to you.
18:59:27:00 It looks like everything is good.
18:59:29:13 There just needs to be a modification and a calculation

18:59:32:00 that could occur between first and second reading.
18:59:34:28 And also, a couple of notes added to the plan.
18:59:38:15 The bonus features include artist studio gallery along
18:59:43:16 Meridian, public open space on Madison, indoor/outdoor
18:59:48:24 performance area, enhanced street design, increased
18:59:51:12 sidewalk area and LEED design.
18:59:54:01 The site is located within the Channel District and has
18:59:56:16 been reviewed by the urban design manager Wilson Stair,
18:59:59:12 who I believe is present this evening.
19:00:01:12 Go ahead and familiarize you with the site.
19:00:11:21 This is zoning atlas page.
19:00:16:21 You can see the subject site in green.
19:00:18:16 Meridian to the west, Twiggs to the north, Madison to
19:00:24:06 the south.
19:00:24:25 Grand central is located here in the CD-3.
19:00:27:21 The Expressway Authority is located to the northwest,
19:00:30:24 and then you have seaport apartments also to the north.
19:00:34:06 Kind of interesting.
19:00:40:06 We just got our 2008 aerials in.
19:00:44:12 You can see here some of the development that has been
19:00:51:06 going on in the Channel District, grand central, the
19:00:53:09 subject parcel which is kind of shadowed out.
19:00:55:22 I guess the timed aerial was taken.
19:00:58:03 The seaport, the Expressway Authority, improvements on
19:01:00:28 Meridian, the flyover on the Crosstown.

19:01:03:25 Show you some pictures.
19:01:11:12 This is from the west side of Meridian looking east.
19:01:15:06 This is on the subject parcel.
19:01:19:00 Expressway Authority building.
19:01:21:04 Moving down Meridian going south looking across at the
19:01:28:24 site.
19:01:29:09 Looking southeast, grand central.
19:01:33:27 This is on Twiggs looking south.
19:01:39:21 That brick building starts carrying over, we're going
19:01:43:00 to move to the east, vacant.
19:01:45:16 Looking all the way east, grand central in the
19:01:51:00 background.
19:01:52:06 This is coming down Madison on the south side of the
19:01:55:27 property.
19:01:59:15 Little bit out of order.
19:02:01:03 And this is just some of the other views.
19:02:04:00 That's the Expressway Authority building, just to
19:02:06:24 familiarize you with the area.
19:02:08:18 Looking east on Twiggs, looking west down Madison
19:02:15:22 toward Meridian.
19:02:17:13 Grand central on the south.
19:02:18:21 North on Meridian toward the Crosstown.
19:02:23:21 And south on Meridian.
19:02:25:10 Development review committee has found this request
19:02:33:09 inconsistent with the applicable Land Development

19:02:38:00 regulations.
19:02:39:03 And I'd like to walk through some of the issues.
19:02:42:10 Mary Danielewicz Bryson is not here this evening.
19:02:46:15 This site is subject to 50% retention of trees and the
19:02:52:00 current note says that they will either transplant or
19:02:56:15 remove the trees.
19:02:57:12 The trees could be removed, but it would trigger a
19:02:59:28 waiver for 95% tree removal.
19:03:03:06 Ms. Danielewicz Bryson does not support that, and would
19:03:06:24 like to see that they be transplanted, the trees be
19:03:11:07 transplanted.
19:03:12:27 If that is the desire, she has a couple of notes there
19:03:17:03 for the transplanting of the trees.
19:03:18:27 If not, it would be 95% waiver for removal of on-site
19:03:24:15 trees.
19:03:24:25 She made comments related to the park and potential for
19:03:31:03 transplanting some of those trees into that park area
19:03:32:27 that they are proposing as one of their bonus
19:03:35:18 amenities.
19:03:36:15 The transportation department has a finding of
19:03:44:25 inconsistency for a number of reasons.
19:03:46:06 Melanie Calloway is here to speak to that tonight,
19:03:49:15 including the traffic analysis, and need to discuss
19:03:52:00 mitigation.
19:03:53:13 Solid waste, who I don't believe is here tonight, had a

19:03:57:03 number of items for the relocation and notations that
19:04:02:22 needed to be put on the plan.
19:04:04:15 I think there may be some further discussion that may
19:04:06:19 be needed with solid waste related to that.
19:04:10:04 And on page 7 of the staff report, you can see from
19:04:14:06 Wilson Stair some comments related to satisfying the
19:04:19:09 Channel District overlay development design standards.
19:04:21:22 Staff is available for any questions.
19:04:24:13 I believe that Ms. Calloway is going to follow me to
19:04:27:22 discuss a little bit further her issues.
19:04:39:06 >> Melanie Calloway, transportation.
19:04:43:22 Transportation is objecting to this petition and
19:04:45:18 finding it inconsistent.
19:04:47:01 I gave a memo to the petitioner on October 8th
19:04:50:07 requiring this petitioner to change his analysis.
19:04:56:21 There were three comments.
19:04:58:12 First comment was to reduce the lanage on Twiggs and
19:05:01:21 Kennedy due to a study that was being portrayed to
19:05:05:21 future that this might happen.
19:05:07:21 Since then, that comment has been removed, however, the
19:05:10:12 comment still was placed on the plan that he must
19:05:13:07 mitigate for his failing movements that he was showing
19:05:15:18 in his analysis.
19:05:16:13 He has not updated his analysis.
19:05:18:13 He has not done any of that.

19:05:19:28 Has not shown mitigation.
19:05:21:13 At this point, transportation cannot move forward with
19:05:23:19 this case because we do not have sufficient evidence to
19:05:26:06 be able to go forward because he has not provided those
19:05:29:06 calculations that we have been requesting.
19:05:35:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do we have different standards for
19:05:37:12 an urban project than a suburban one?
19:05:41:15 In other words, you do your traffic calculations
19:05:46:24 premised on a certain number of people driving.
19:05:49:21 This is an urban setting where one would hope that a
19:05:55:28 significant number of the people who would live there
19:05:58:06 would walk, use transit or ride bikes.
19:06:01:09 Given that this is an urban setting, do you use
19:06:04:09 different calculations for your car trips?
19:06:07:24 >> Our trips are based on ITE trip generation manual,
19:06:11:12 which is the accepted way of being able to calculate
19:06:14:06 the trips of each type of site.
19:06:16:18 What happens is, they do studies across the nation on
19:06:18:21 different properties.
19:06:19:09 They do suburbs.
19:06:20:09 They do cities.
19:06:21:03 And they make an average.
19:06:22:16 And every city uses this.
19:06:24:25 The county uses it to be able to estimate the trips of
19:06:28:07 the property.

19:06:28:27 This petitioner was no different.
19:06:30:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, okay.
19:06:31:19 Let me try again.
19:06:32:27 If this were a high-rise on Bayshore, let's say, one
19:06:39:16 would assume that if people live there and work
19:06:43:03 somewhere that they would basically have to drive to
19:06:45:10 where they work because there's not a lot of work sites
19:06:49:09 close by.
19:06:50:09 There are not a lot of other amenities close by other
19:06:53:18 than recreational walking along Bayshore.
19:06:56:06 But because this is in an urban setting, do we, when we
19:07:00:12 look at proposed high-rises in an urban setting, think
19:07:06:03 differently about the number of car trips that are
19:07:08:18 going to be generated by the people who live there?
19:07:12:03 >> The land use category that we use through ITE trip
19:07:15:06 generation manual is the same that we use for
19:07:17:19 residential, condominium, townhomes.
19:07:20:00 We use this for all of our projects.
19:07:21:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If something is out in
19:07:23:15 Carrollwood -- not Carrollwood, because that's not in
19:07:25:09 the city, but if something is, let's say, in East Tampa
19:07:31:01 versus downtown, you don't have a different standard
19:07:33:12 in -- if you have a town house in the Channel District
19:07:36:04 versus a town house in East Tampa, you use the same
19:07:38:27 numbers, in other words?

19:07:40:01 >> The City of Tampa, our transportation division uses
19:07:44:00 the institute of transportation engineer's manual.
19:07:47:15 This is the manual that was accepted by the entire
19:07:51:27 country to use to generate traffic.
19:07:54:16 When his traffic engineer came to me through the
19:07:57:15 methodology, we had agreed on the land use category in
19:07:59:18 which he used.
19:08:00:10 And he agreed to that.
19:08:01:21 He showed failing movements in his report, and he never
19:08:06:15 mitigated them.
19:08:07:21 The bottom line is, the petitioner is required to
19:08:10:22 mitigate his transportation impact, and he's asking for
19:08:15:18 twice as many units as he did -- was approved in his
19:08:19:06 previous approval.
19:08:20:00 So he needs to provide mitigation for that for public
19:08:23:09 health, safety and welfare.
19:08:25:09 And the petitioner is not doing that.
19:08:27:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Let me try one more time.
19:08:29:19 When you're considering trips, if a person is building
19:08:34:00 residential uses in a -- in an urban center so that
19:08:38:12 some of the people who live there might work or go for
19:08:42:22 recreation or by other than their cars.
19:08:47:22 By walking, using a bicycle or taking transportation or
19:08:51:03 taking our streetcar, do you consider that?
19:08:55:06 >> We consider trips for an --

19:08:56:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You assume that there's going to be
19:08:58:12 the same number of car trips.
19:09:00:21 >> No.
19:09:01:06 Studies are done across the nation and in all types of
19:09:04:06 urban areas as well as suburban areas all across the
19:09:07:06 nation.
19:09:07:18 The mean of those studies is taken as the average
19:09:10:24 trips.
19:09:11:09 Thank you.
19:09:15:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
19:09:16:09 Okay.
19:09:16:24 Planning Commission.
19:09:20:24 >>TONY GARCIA: Thank you Mr. Chairman, members of
19:09:22:12 Council.
19:09:23:04 Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.
19:09:24:27 I've been sworn in.
19:09:25:27 Couple of extra comments as it relates to the
19:09:27:25 comprehensive plan.
19:09:28:21 The site in question does have a land use designation
19:09:31:06 of RMU-100, regional mixed use 100.
19:09:34:13 It is located in the northwest section of the Channel
19:09:36:18 District area.
19:09:38:06 It's located on the southeast corner of the
19:09:40:16 intersection of Twiggs and -- [INAUDIBLE]
19:09:45:13 As you can see, this dark piece over here is heavy

19:09:47:27 industrial.
19:09:48:07 That's the Expressway Authority.
19:09:49:12 One of the few remaining parcels that has a heavy
19:09:52:15 industrial land use designation in the Channel
19:09:54:06 District.
19:09:54:24 On the other side of Meridian, of course, you go into
19:09:57:09 the central business districts.
19:09:58:13 We're right on the periphery of the central business
19:10:00:24 district.
19:10:01:04 As Ms. Feeley has already stated to you, this property
19:10:03:27 has already come to you in the form of a rezoning
19:10:06:03 request in 2005.
19:10:07:15 At that point in time, it was approved for 314
19:10:10:09 residential units with just under 20,000 square feet of
19:10:13:25 commercial usage entitlements.
19:10:15:27 The new petition request would allow for development of
19:10:18:18 650 residential units, which consists of live/work
19:10:24:01 units and apartments.
19:10:25:15 Seaport directly to the north is -- also consists of
19:10:28:16 rental units, which seems to be the only plausible, I
19:10:31:12 guess, residential use at this juncture within our
19:10:34:06 economy.
19:10:34:15 It seems like that's the only void that we really have
19:10:37:09 because of all the condo units and townhomes built in
19:10:40:18 the last three to four years.

19:10:42:21 Seems that rental units are a very desirable
19:10:45:21 residential product at this point in time, which is, I
19:10:48:24 guess, one of the reasons why the applicant is coming
19:10:51:09 in for this particular use change.
19:10:53:06 She has also stated to you that they are asking for a
19:10:56:07 request in the increase of the application of the
19:10:58:21 periphery bonus to go in excess with 3.5.
19:11:02:28 They are allowed to go ahead and do that with your new
19:11:05:24 Channel District plan.
19:11:06:27 There is a system in place.
19:11:09:21 They have provided through the calculations a request
19:11:14:15 to validate exceeding the 3.5.
19:11:19:13 That has been reviewed by Ms. Coyle, from what I do
19:11:22:16 understand.
19:11:23:15 That is the mechanism required several years ago when
19:11:25:22 we first started this whole issue of the appropriate
19:11:28:03 bonus.
19:11:28:15 That mechanism has been implemented by the city, and
19:11:31:09 that is what has been used and approved I believe by
19:11:34:04 city staff in allowing this particular rezoning to move
19:11:37:24 forward to you this evening for consideration.
19:11:39:13 The Planning Commission staff found the proposed
19:11:41:13 request consistent with the comprehensive plan.
19:11:45:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
19:11:45:27 Given the location with the existing land uses around

19:11:50:15 it, wouldn't you assume that some of the people,
19:11:55:27 particularly who live in the live/work unit, might not
19:11:59:00 be using cars for all their transportation needs?
19:12:02:09 >>TONY GARCIA: I think that's a correct assumption that
19:12:04:25 anyone could take based on it being an urban
19:12:07:12 environment, Ms. Saul-Sena, because they are
19:12:09:04 theoretically closer to where they might be working.
19:12:13:00 That is an assumption.
19:12:14:10 It's not something that we can practically apply as far
19:12:18:21 as from a statistical aspect what has been addressed to
19:12:24:18 you or what has been articulated to you by your
19:12:27:16 transportation staff for the city.
19:12:29:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do we have recognition at this point
19:12:31:16 of transit-oriented design in what you work with?
19:12:37:03 >>TONY GARCIA: Transit oriented design is going to be a
19:12:39:27 focal point of your new comprehensive plan when we come
19:12:42:12 in.
19:12:42:22 It will be used as far as implementing the strategy of
19:12:45:03 where we are going to be relocating development or what
19:12:47:09 we will be recommending to you in the ensuing years
19:12:50:09 ahead.
19:12:50:19 As far as it being strategically articulated within the
19:12:56:03 existing comprehensive plan, no, ma'am, it's not in
19:12:58:09 there right now.
19:12:59:06 But we are very well aware, as you are, too, of the

19:13:01:27 importance of transit oriented design.
19:13:05:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's part of our comprehensive plan,
19:13:07:21 which has already been sent from the City Council to
19:13:11:24 DCA for their blessing and then when it comes back.
19:13:17:21 >>TONY GARCIA: We'll hopefully be here in front of you
19:13:19:21 next month.
19:13:22:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
19:13:22:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
19:13:24:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I was just going to say in
19:13:28:16 defense of the traffic analysis, that it would be nice
19:13:31:03 if we were like other urban areas where you don't need
19:13:33:21 a car.
19:13:34:27 But at this point, we're not.
19:13:36:12 You know, I kind of think that's what they have to work
19:13:40:12 with.
19:13:41:00 I mean, I hope we're going to have more transit
19:13:43:28 available, but I understand not being able to make
19:13:47:18 those assumptions and maybe there's a compromise we
19:13:51:13 could arrive at.
19:13:52:24 But to have twice as many users who need parking and
19:14:00:06 not have addressed it, I think that's something that we
19:14:03:10 need to hear from.
19:14:06:00 The petitioner on.
19:14:07:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
19:14:08:15 Petitioner.

19:14:12:27 >> For the record, my name is Timothy Powell, president
19:14:15:18 of TSP Companies Inc.
19:14:18:15 Post Office Box 1016, Tampa, Florida, 33601.
19:14:22:27 Yes, I have been sworn in.
19:14:25:03 This will be slightly repetitious but only take about a
19:14:27:24 minute.
19:14:28:12 Tonight, I'm introducing rezoning Z08-67.
19:14:31:25 The property was zoned CD-3 under Z05-145 and was three
19:14:37:25 years ago and is located at 1105 and 1115 Twiggs Street
19:14:42:19 immediately north of the Grand Central Kennedy
19:14:45:27 development, which is a development by the same
19:14:48:10 developers as this petition.
19:14:50:01 Mr. Ken Stoltenberg and Mr. Frank Bombeeck.
19:14:53:03 The subject property is 2.26 acres and is being
19:14:55:28 requested to be developed for 650 residential rental
19:14:59:21 units and two towers with shared parking structure at
19:15:02:19 the base of the towers.
19:15:04:12 The parking structure accommodates 750 parking spaces
19:15:08:18 which is 110 spaces more than the required 650 spaces.
19:15:13:03 Included on the east side of the development is a
19:15:15:13 4,505-square-foot public park with a net 3,602 square
19:15:21:21 feet of greenspace.
19:15:23:00 The floor area ratio of the total development which is
19:15:26:18 626,838 square feet of structure is 6.36, which
19:15:32:21 utilizes a bonus density credit generated by the bonus

19:15:36:15 density features of artist studio gallery.
19:15:39:07 The public park on Madison Street and indoor/outdoor
19:15:43:12 performance area, enhanced street design, increased
19:15:46:06 sidewalk areas and having the structure qualify under
19:15:50:09 LEED design standards.
19:15:52:16 Development architecture and above referenced density
19:15:55:15 bonus features will be described in further detail by
19:15:57:18 the next speaker, urban design architect Richard
19:16:01:15 Zingale.
19:16:06:18 >> Hi.
19:16:07:06 I'm Richard Zingale from Urban Studio Architects.
19:16:11:04 It's a pleasure to be before you this evening.
19:16:13:15 I'm going to run through the project and help you get
19:16:17:21 your bearings on what we're actually planning to do.
19:16:21:06 I'm going to use these two boards initially.
19:16:23:19 I would like to go ahead and provide some illustration
19:16:27:06 with some of the aspects of the site plan that we've
19:16:29:27 prepared for your review here today.
19:16:32:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could somebody take down the
19:16:34:06 flowers?
19:16:34:21 They are great, but you can't see.
19:16:46:06 >> Let me go ahead and get you started with your
19:16:55:00 bearings.
19:16:55:18 Meridian, Twiggs, Madison.
19:17:02:22 We have -- essentially, you have all the statistics for

19:17:05:19 the project.
19:17:06:18 There's a four-story parking podium, essentially, that
19:17:10:00 anchors the project.
19:17:11:27 Let's be a pedestrian for a moment and walk around the
19:17:15:18 project.
19:17:16:06 Aligning directly with the 11th Street that we've cut
19:17:21:12 through grand central is the park that we keep
19:17:24:13 referring to.
19:17:25:16 We're taking the bricks and some of the sculptural
19:17:32:13 nameplates and utilizing that in a vest pocket park
19:17:37:03 that will have an 18-foot high wall using the bricks
19:17:40:03 from that building.
19:17:41:03 We're going to really try and get great sculpture on
19:17:43:19 that wall so that this really becomes a sense of place
19:17:46:19 and anchors the top of that street into the beginning
19:17:50:12 of the connectivity for the project as an individual
19:17:52:18 might want to transfer from the rental project north of
19:17:59:01 ours and travel through a brick-paved walk down into
19:18:02:01 the park, down into the grand central project.
19:18:04:22 If we continue down Madison, we're trying to work with
19:18:10:01 an architectural vocabulary that we can truly realize.
19:18:14:06 Obviously, everyone will start talking about what's
19:18:16:16 affordable in our next cycle of building.
19:18:19:13 So we're trying to show building materials that we feel
19:18:24:12 are attainable.

19:18:25:19 So it's a very simple construction vocabulary.
19:18:29:12 Precast panel, glass, very similar to the grand central
19:18:33:00 materials.
19:18:33:15 But toward that end, we're able to detail the garage
19:18:37:19 facades.
19:18:38:12 I'll show some elevations in a moment of that.
19:18:41:03 Able to provide detailing on all the facades so that
19:18:43:28 it's consistent all the way around.
19:18:45:19 As we move up to Meridian, we have the beginning of our
19:18:50:06 artist lofts.
19:18:51:00 We have six of the lofts.
19:18:52:00 They are pretty interesting spaces.
19:18:53:27 Essentially three stories.
19:18:55:21 There's a ground floor gallery space.
19:18:59:01 Mezzanine space that could function as a work space.
19:19:02:16 Then on the third floor is the living area.
19:19:06:00 That's represented here on Meridian.
19:19:08:06 And those are the loft spaces.
19:19:10:09 It's really a continuation of the retail space that
19:19:12:12 begins on Kennedy and Meridian with new powerhouse gym
19:19:17:01 that's going in there.
19:19:19:13 Hopefully the retailers that will populate here and
19:19:21:13 really starts to anchor that corner as a gateway for
19:19:23:24 the northwest section of the Channel District.
19:19:26:06 The building steps back from that edge as well, so the

19:19:30:00 pedestrian has a three-foot edge to walk along instead
19:19:33:15 of a building space.
19:19:35:00 That building steps back another 20 feet off that edge.
19:19:39:18 As we move on the north side of the project, we go
19:19:41:27 ahead and step the building back 20 feet from the curb
19:19:44:15 so we can continue the Hillsborough river greenway with
19:19:49:27 the Twiggs Street trail.
19:19:52:24 And that would be along this space here.
19:19:54:27 As we move up into the transportation opportunities
19:20:01:19 that are also available are certainly Hartline's
19:20:05:01 considerations that whatever the agreed location will
19:20:08:03 be on Twiggs.
19:20:09:16 Not to mention the fact that the streetcar is at the
19:20:12:21 end of Channelside right here.
19:20:14:18 So all of that pedestrian movement I think is pretty
19:20:17:21 essential.
19:20:18:01 Using the retail space we have at grand central and
19:20:23:06 being able to get to the streetcar and, certainly, the
19:20:28:06 bus that's going to be -- bus stops going to be
19:20:31:00 provided.
19:20:31:10 So we have a four-story podium that the two towers sit
19:20:35:09 on.
19:20:35:15 The towers themselves are pretty straightforward.
19:20:39:12 However, the glass -- stepping the elevations back and
19:20:46:06 forth so that there's some variance in the way that the

19:20:49:15 towers come across.
19:20:50:21 We also selected a building pallet which Wilson has
19:20:54:12 cautioned us to study carefully.
19:20:56:04 I think that there's a lot of color happening down in
19:20:58:28 the district, certainly with the sage.
19:21:02:19 There's the grand central colors, which we were scared
19:21:05:06 to death when they started painting that orange.
19:21:08:12 But I believe it turned out really well and somehow it
19:21:11:00 found its way into other projects.
19:21:12:16 But these colors, I think, will be pretty critical in
19:21:15:04 terms of how that palette works through.
19:21:18:12 I think that end of the district will be a colorful end
19:21:21:10 of the district.
19:21:22:00 We won't do anything to make it undesirable.
19:21:25:01 The next place I think we should move to is the amenity
19:21:30:12 deck.
19:21:30:21 The amenity deck is located on the top of the fourth
19:21:33:18 level right here.
19:21:34:15 We haven't really depicted it in the rendering, but
19:21:38:07 have certainly taken into consideration in plan, both a
19:21:43:15 passive and active deck.
19:21:46:00 There's a very serious interest in creating a community
19:21:48:21 garden.
19:21:49:06 This is about 32,000 square feet in between the two
19:21:52:12 towers.

19:21:52:27 So that's quite a distance that really separates the
19:21:56:04 two buildings.
19:21:56:24 The community gardens about 10,000 square feet and
19:22:00:01 really will offer an opportunity for the residents to
19:22:03:03 actually do some gardening on the roof.
19:22:05:19 We were successful at grand central at putting actual
19:22:08:28 green lawns on those pool decks, and being able to
19:22:12:15 slope those, and those are a popular area for Frisbee
19:22:16:27 football.
19:22:17:06 But this is a much, much larger area.
19:22:19:01 The passive aspect of the pool deck utilize the timbers
19:22:23:10 from the structure we're pulling down on the corner as
19:22:27:27 well.
19:22:28:07 We're trying to get as much reuse of that facility as
19:22:31:06 possible.
19:22:31:18 The units themselves will have terraces at that level
19:22:34:21 that look out onto this as well.
19:22:37:10 The towers are 20 stories on top of the four-story
19:22:41:21 deck.
19:22:42:03 And the -- so the total project again is 24 stories.
19:22:47:06 You have the height on that, 24, 6.
19:22:50:15 I think I'll go ahead and let Mr. STOLTENberg to
19:22:59:10 address other issues.
19:23:00:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I have one question.
19:23:02:12 So the brick building is gone?

19:23:09:07 >> In its current configuration.
19:23:12:27 >> Can you show me on one of these where the footprint
19:23:16:16 of that building is in relation to your --
19:23:26:03 >> It's in the upper corner right here.
19:23:27:24 >>MARY MULHERN: That's about as big as it is.
19:23:31:00 >> Yes, actually.
19:23:31:27 >>MARY MULHERN: Too bad you couldn't just have built
19:23:34:15 beyond that, because that's about the only building
19:23:37:21 with any history or character left in Channelside.
19:23:40:09 Have you seen the building?
19:23:41:21 It's beautiful.
19:23:43:15 That's where as a young artist I would have wanted to
19:23:49:00 have a loft.
19:23:49:21 I think it's great that you're doing apartments and
19:23:54:06 it's going to be hopefully more affordable for the kind
19:23:58:03 of people that will want to live downtown.
19:24:00:16 I don't know.
19:24:01:01 Is that a historic -- I don't know why it's not a
19:24:04:10 historic building.
19:24:05:21 >> It's noncontributing.
19:24:07:15 We were careful to check that.
19:24:09:13 And it just -- the scale, it's a very difficult
19:24:17:15 structure to integrate.
19:24:18:15 >>MARY MULHERN: You know what, that makes a street
19:24:22:06 walkable and a neighborhood feel.

19:24:27:00 >> Which is why we were careful to put the artist lofts
19:24:29:24 and having the ability for someone to walk up the
19:24:33:10 street and engage in the ground floor gallery space of
19:24:36:09 those areas.
19:24:37:04 I mean, we didn't want to just take the building down
19:24:39:22 and make it parking garage.
19:24:42:21 >>MARY MULHERN: Right but -- you know.
19:24:45:13 >> Anything else?
19:24:47:07 >> I'll turn it over to Mr. Stoltenberg.
19:24:55:00 >> Hello.
19:24:55:15 For the record, Ken Stoltenberg, principal in Mercury
19:24:59:12 Advisors.
19:25:00:07 We're the current applicant this evening.
19:25:02:10 I reside at 3211 Grenada Street West, Tampa, Florida,
19:25:06:27 33629.
19:25:08:04 Yes, I have been sworn.
19:25:09:12 Richard has ably gone over the different aspects of
19:25:14:27 this project.
19:25:15:19 I would like to tell you that what we've done has
19:25:18:00 incorporated a lot of the things we learned.
19:25:22:24 Actively trying to redevelop it for almost six years
19:25:25:00 now.
19:25:25:12 The economy has changed vastly since we started in
19:25:28:06 2003.
19:25:29:00 It's really changed since 2005.

19:25:31:09 And to try to undertake a project of condominiums, we
19:25:34:15 believe is foolhardy.
19:25:36:09 It's never going to get financed.
19:25:38:18 We looked back and said, okay, rentals.
19:25:41:06 Right now, the financial markets are in such a state
19:25:43:24 of, shall we say, disarray, probably impossible to do
19:25:47:21 anything right now.
19:25:48:12 It's not always going to be that way.
19:25:50:07 We have to be ready.
19:25:51:12 We have to take everything we learned at grand central.
19:25:54:00 Currently, we are the largest landlord in the Channel
19:25:56:00 District.
19:25:56:21 We have 200 units of which 193 of them are leased by
19:26:00:04 happy people.
19:26:00:22 So we know what the folks want, and what we've done is
19:26:05:12 we've made our units a lot smaller and have a lot more
19:26:09:06 studio and one-bedroom units than what we presently
19:26:16:24 have at Grand Central because that's what the market is
19:26:18:15 telling us to do.
19:26:18:25 While we have twice as many units, we don't have nearly
19:26:21:18 twice as much space because the units are a lot smaller
19:26:24:00 than they were before.
19:26:25:03 The market is telling us what to do.
19:26:27:03 There are a ton of mainly younger people that can pay
19:26:30:27 between 1500 and $2,000 a month in rent.

19:26:33:21 Once you get over 2,000, the market thins out real
19:26:36:15 quick.
19:26:36:25 This isn't Atlanta or western Virginia or New York
19:26:39:18 where people will pay three, four thousand -- it
19:26:42:22 doesn't exist.
19:26:43:12 So we've got to react to it and do things that make
19:26:46:00 sense.
19:26:46:21 So the smaller units make sense.
19:26:48:06 They are very popular and we have filled up grand
19:26:50:24 central within nine months.
19:26:52:12 This plan reacts to the economic realities of today.
19:26:57:12 Secondly, we are, Richard touched on the artist space.
19:27:01:27 I'd like to further elaborate on that.
19:27:03:27 It's a really neat program where my partner and I will
19:27:07:00 subsidize the artists in the space so they don't have
19:27:09:15 to pay any rent.
19:27:10:28 All they'll be responsible for are their utilities.
19:27:14:00 We'll subsidize that space and administer a program
19:27:18:00 where we get different artists every two to three
19:27:21:15 years, and it will act as an incubator, hopefully, so
19:27:22:12 artists in the area can get popular and then go
19:27:25:09 somewhere else and succeed.
19:27:26:13 We'll manage the program ourselves.
19:27:28:19 I'm one course short in my minor in art history, so I
19:27:32:03 do have an interest in these things.

19:27:34:15 The second salient future is our rooftop garden that
19:27:37:24 Richard talked about.
19:27:38:27 It's almost a quarter of an acre.
19:27:40:27 We are going to have an active program where people use
19:27:43:15 Earth boxes to grow stuff.
19:27:45:00 I've been using them for years and they work great.
19:27:47:09 I have about three-quarters of an acre by the basin.
19:27:50:04 I grow all kinds of stuff year-round.
19:27:53:01 It works for me.
19:27:54:01 Something the folks really like and something for the
19:27:56:04 residents to participate in.
19:27:57:04 And we will have a structured program.
19:27:59:00 So we think that is a neat aspect to add to and will
19:28:04:15 add to the community.
19:28:05:15 There are a couple of objections.
19:28:06:21 And likelihood tyke to address those.
19:28:08:27 We have two minor ones and two where, quite frankly, I
19:28:11:21 disagree with the city on.
19:28:13:06 The first has to do with the landscape specialist and
19:28:19:27 has to do with do we remove the trees or pay into the
19:28:22:25 tree bank?
19:28:23:21 What we said, we'll save as many trees as we can to the
19:28:26:21 extent we don't, the code says we can pay the city into
19:28:29:27 a tree bank to plant more trees where you want.
19:28:33:00 Talking about 13 cabbage palm trees and two oak trees

19:28:35:18 about this tall.
19:28:36:15 We planted them in front of the model center.
19:28:38:21 Not like we're talking about oak canopy.
19:28:40:24 Economically -- this isn't a big deal, but doesn't make
19:28:43:27 sense to dig the trees up, cart them to a nursery and
19:28:47:18 have somebody watch them for two years and then cart
19:28:50:00 them back.
19:28:50:21 We would much rather pay you.
19:28:52:16 It isn't a huge issue.
19:28:54:06 It's one of those things, if it's a deal breaker, help
19:28:57:00 me out and I'll do what I can.
19:28:58:25 What the city is asking me to do doesn't make a lot of
19:29:01:16 sense.
19:29:02:01 Secondly, I would like to speak to the solid waste
19:29:04:01 issue.
19:29:04:12 What they want us to do, they are concerned that our
19:29:07:15 dumpster is located too far from Madison Street.
19:29:10:18 They want the dumpster on Madison Street so the guy
19:29:13:10 doesn't have to back the truck up.
19:29:14:28 We want the dumpster as far as we can off of Madison
19:29:17:21 Street so it's away from the park and away from the
19:29:19:27 retail space I build at grand central so there's not a
19:29:23:18 big dumpster in front of it.
19:29:25:10 They want it as close as they can to Madison Street so
19:29:28:06 the guys don't have to back the truck up.

19:29:30:09 I disagree.
19:29:31:06 I don't think it's good urban design.
19:29:33:06 The other Land Development Coordination, Wilson has two
19:29:36:13 minor issues.
19:29:37:06 One has to do with the colors of the buildings.
19:29:39:15 We will address those in our 30, 60 and 90 percent
19:29:42:25 review and make sure that he's satisfied.
19:29:44:24 The other has to do with the width of the sidewalks and
19:29:46:28 the parking spaces.
19:29:48:12 He wanted the sidewalks to be 10 feet wide.
19:29:50:21 Right now they are about nine.
19:29:52:00 We have no problem making them 10.
19:29:53:21 The reason we didn't show it on the plan, we thought
19:29:56:03 that would incur an objection from the traffic
19:29:58:19 department.
19:29:59:00 Then we would have to cut the spaces down in the
19:30:01:04 right-of-way from nine feet wide to eight feet wide.
19:30:03:28 We want to do it, we're happy to address it in between
19:30:06:06 first and second reading.
19:30:07:09 That's why we didn't do it.
19:30:08:21 We probably would incur another objection.
19:30:11:10 The last is transportation.
19:30:17:06 Two issues with the transportation department I would
19:30:20:00 like to discuss them both.
19:30:21:15 I know Melanie withdrew one as an objection, and that's

19:30:25:04 looking at Kennedy Boulevard and Meridian boulevard,
19:30:28:24 cutting them down from five lanes to three lanes.
19:30:31:09 I think that's a great idea.
19:30:32:24 I'm a huge champion of that.
19:30:34:04 What they asked us to do was to study it and come up
19:30:36:27 with a traffic count, but there's no plan and the city
19:30:40:04 hasn't even talked to F.D.O.T. about it.
19:30:42:12 I said, no, we can't study a plan that doesn't exist.
19:30:45:10 How long are the turning lanes?
19:30:46:21 What changes do you make to the signals to make them
19:30:48:28 work?
19:30:49:13 So I didn't want my traffic engineer chasing his tail
19:30:52:21 because there's no plan.
19:30:54:13 I want to say, I think it's a great idea, but I can't
19:30:56:21 have the traffic engineer do a study on something
19:31:00:10 there's no plan on.
19:31:01:10 The last issue is the mitigation payment.
19:31:03:24 I want to talk a little bit about that, because I think
19:31:06:15 it's an important overall issue.
19:31:08:21 What the city asked us for, they asked us for
19:31:12:04 $100,000 mitigation payment.
19:31:14:06 I did a little research on it.
19:31:16:03 What I had our traffic engineer do is determine does
19:31:19:04 this project make the traffic any worse?
19:31:21:25 What we found is right now in the area, there is one

19:31:24:28 failing traffic movement.
19:31:26:06 It doesn't have to do with traffic volume.
19:31:28:12 It's the light at Twiggs and Meridian.
19:31:30:22 And the reason there is a failing movement has nothing
19:31:34:25 to do with volume.
19:31:35:15 It has to do with that light is timed for the
19:31:37:18 reversible expressway and it's inconsistent with how
19:31:39:25 the city has the other lights on Twiggs at Nebraska and
19:31:42:24 Twiggs and Channelside and Twiggs timed.
19:31:45:12 It has nothing to do with the traffic volume that will
19:31:47:24 be generated from this project.
19:31:49:09 This project, if you look at what's there now and you
19:31:52:28 look at what's there now with this project, it doesn't
19:31:55:09 change significantly any of the movements.
19:31:57:24 Doesn't create any failing movements that are already
19:32:01:00 there because of the signalization with the Expressway
19:32:02:24 Authority.
19:32:03:09 So to say that there's a life safety issue or anything
19:32:07:06 like that simply isn't accurate.
19:32:09:00 Furthermore, I would say from a public policy
19:32:12:12 standpoint, we're paying our impact fees, hundreds of
19:32:14:19 thousands if not millions of dollars.
19:32:16:00 And Grand Central at Kennedy, look at that as an
19:32:16:00 example.
19:32:16:10 It's contributing over a millions dollars into the TIF

19:32:19:18 this year to fix all kinds of stuff.
19:32:21:06 The object of the exercise is to have more buildings
19:32:23:16 that contribute.
19:32:24:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
19:32:25:00 Wrap it up.
19:32:25:24 I gave you a little time over.
19:32:27:12 >> If there are any questions, I'm happy to answer
19:32:29:12 them.
19:32:31:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me hear from the public.
19:32:34:10 Anyone here wish to address Council on this?
19:32:39:10 Anyone wish to address Council from the public?
19:32:44:28 Okay.
19:32:49:06 Questions.
19:32:49:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, okay.
19:32:51:12 That was it.
19:32:51:27 Nobody has anything to say?
19:32:53:21 I'm just disappointed that you're not keeping that
19:32:58:03 historic building, which is one of the few that's left
19:33:00:16 there.
19:33:00:28 Especially when I see it in context --
19:33:04:18 >> I understand that, and that's why we're reusing --
19:33:07:12 >>MARY MULHERN: You explained that you are reusing the
19:33:09:27 bricks.
19:33:10:09 I see it on there.
19:33:11:16 >> What it does, if you take that chunk out of it, you

19:33:16:12 cannot get the proper grades for your parking structure
19:33:18:22 to work properly.
19:33:19:25 If we could save it, we would.
19:33:21:28 But if you take that out, you can't get your radiuses
19:33:25:18 to get the cars up with the appropriate grade.
19:33:28:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Driveway to the parking lot is going to
19:33:30:01 be?
19:33:31:04 >> Driveway to the parking lot is on Madison Street.
19:33:33:22 But you can only have so many degrees of slope and
19:33:37:06 still park the cars.
19:33:38:04 >>MARY MULHERN: I know.
19:33:39:09 They do it in a lot of cities, so I know it's possible.
19:33:43:01 You could figure it out if you wanted to.
19:33:45:00 >> I would like to do it, and we are using that
19:33:46:18 building right now.
19:33:48:09 We have a bunch of artisans and all kinds of people in
19:33:52:16 there right now free of charge.
19:33:54:07 We're doing all we can.
19:33:55:00 >>MARY MULHERN: That's another question I have, and
19:33:55:00 this is tangential, but I'm interested because, you say
19:34:01:28 you are going to give those spaces rent-free to people.
19:34:06:09 >> That is correct.
19:34:06:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Are they going to be finished so they
19:34:08:22 can move in and use them?
19:34:10:21 >> Absolutely.

19:34:12:00 What we found, when people try to provide space for
19:34:15:10 artists, if you don't do it for free, they can never
19:34:19:12 afford it.
19:34:20:00 >>MARY MULHERN: We don't want them to go away.
19:34:22:12 We want the artists to stay here in Tampa.
19:34:25:09 >> We're looking at it as an incubator where we don't
19:34:29:03 have the same person there for ten years.
19:34:30:25 We keep it fresh and we change it out.
19:34:31:03 We use it so they can hopefully become popular and then
19:34:36:27 go somewhere else in town and stay here.
19:34:41:15 >>MARY MULHERN: I find this whole bonus system
19:34:44:09 completely perplexing.
19:34:46:15 I don't even see how we can make a determination about
19:34:49:12 what you should be getting or what you shouldn't be
19:34:53:25 getting.
19:34:54:10 But I have a couple other questions.
19:34:56:13 Your open spaces and public spaces, can you put one of
19:35:01:22 those back up and show me where they are?
19:35:13:28 >> We've got the park space here.
19:35:15:21 The connectivity and additional open space between
19:35:19:16 Twiggs and this space here.
19:35:22:06 And then the building sits back off of our property
19:35:27:00 line and the curb, 20 feet at this edge.
19:35:30:12 And then 40 feet because of the way Meridian works this
19:35:34:06 way.

19:35:34:16 The building is also set back 20 feet from the curb
19:35:38:03 here, which is 10 feet off of our property line here.
19:35:42:06 So it's really a peripheral open space situation along
19:35:46:24 with what we've provided for on the amenity deck.
19:35:52:09 >> [not speaking into microphone]
19:35:57:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Now, are our zoning people counting
19:36:01:21 your deck that you're building as public space?
19:36:05:09 >> No.
19:36:06:13 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
19:36:07:06 That's not part of the calculation.
19:36:08:19 Okay.
19:36:10:00 So the objection from transportation is about the
19:36:14:18 impact on traffic.
19:36:15:22 I thought it was about the parking.
19:36:17:15 It's not?
19:36:19:22 It's just about the traffic.
19:36:21:03 >> The mitigation.
19:36:24:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Where do you think there's going to be
19:36:25:25 a traffic problem?
19:36:27:27 >> Melanie Calloway, transportation.
19:36:30:03 He identified several points in the intersection where
19:36:33:15 he has failing movements.
19:36:35:00 And we do not allow the petitioner to adjust a signal
19:36:39:00 timing to be able to as a form of mitigation.
19:36:42:16 The reason why, especially downtown, as you know, our

19:36:45:24 signals are in sequential order.
19:36:48:03 You'll see it go green, green, green, because they are
19:36:51:06 all in order and they all have to be timed in that
19:36:53:21 orderly fashion, especially in a downtown urban area.
19:36:57:00 So changing one, you can't just one change one signal
19:37:00:06 in an urban area.
19:37:01:18 That's not an adequate way to mitigate your traffic.
19:37:04:09 >>MARY MULHERN: You can get two miles in downtown in
19:37:07:27 less than a minute.
19:37:09:00 I know how they are timed.
19:37:11:12 I don't think that's necessarily a good thing.
19:37:13:04 So it's the turning radius at that corner?
19:37:17:21 >> No.
19:37:18:16 It's the failing movement at the intersection.
19:37:20:15 For instance, one of his intersections, he may have a
19:37:23:12 left turn.
19:37:24:00 He's adding additional traffic to the left turn which
19:37:26:27 currently fails and he's making it fail worse.
19:37:29:00 >>MARY MULHERN: On Meridian?
19:37:31:24 >> On his analysis that I looked at, his failing
19:37:35:06 movements are -- he has failing movements on Twiggs and
19:37:43:19 Meridian, that's northbound.
19:37:45:00 Eastbound, all directions, he has failing
19:37:48:06 movement, a.m. peak at Kennedy and Nebraska and Twiggs
19:37:52:15 and Channelside.

19:37:53:27 This is his additional traffic onto the roadway.
19:37:56:15 He's asking for twice as many units.
19:37:59:00 His increase in that traffic what he's already proposed
19:38:03:03 to do.
19:38:03:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I'm not a traffic engineer.
19:38:06:12 I'm downtown driving a lot.
19:38:08:10 At rush hour, there's never any traffic on Meridian.
19:38:12:22 I have no idea why we have that five-lane or six-lane
19:38:18:00 highway because there's never any traffic on there.
19:38:21:10 That's anecdotal, but if somebody has seen traffic on
19:38:26:15 there --
19:38:27:13 >> I would like to speak to that if I could.
19:38:32:12 >>REBECCA KERT: Rebecca Kert, Legal Department.
19:38:34:04 I wanted to focus City Council's options as far as the
19:38:37:24 transportation issues that have come up.
19:38:39:21 What you have right now, you have expert testimony from
19:38:41:21 your traffic expert saying that there is a detrimental
19:38:44:27 impact on the roadways that's causing a public health
19:38:48:13 and safety issue.
19:38:49:21 That's the expert testimony that you have before you.
19:38:51:19 You have several options that you can do with that.
19:38:54:09 If there's a public safety issue, that would be a basis
19:38:56:27 for denial based upon the fact that there's adverse
19:38:59:25 impact to the surrounding areas and a compatibility
19:39:03:12 issue.

19:39:04:00 What the city typically does in those situations is
19:39:06:27 allow for mitigation.
19:39:08:15 The city has the ability to have an applicant who is
19:39:11:25 causing a public safety issue to actually have to solve
19:39:14:21 the problem himself through some sort of engineering
19:39:17:15 solution or some sort of improvement.
19:39:19:18 What the city typically does is allow for a mitigation
19:39:22:27 payment so everyone in the area puts in and eventually
19:39:26:19 the city gets enough money to deal with it.
19:39:29:00 If the City Council feels that it's not appropriate to
19:39:32:06 require mitigation either actual solving the problem or
19:39:38:21 some sort of mitigation so that the city can solve the
19:39:41:22 problem, then City Council needs to identify why this
19:39:47:06 situation is different than other situations where you
19:39:49:10 do require mitigation.
19:39:50:27 And you may -- you may do that.
19:39:53:15 I just wanted to say that it's important that you do
19:39:56:12 that if you don't require mitigation.
19:39:58:04 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I think it's important that we be
19:40:01:07 clear on what the public safety hazard is.
19:40:03:15 I haven't heard that.
19:40:06:04 I don't understand what it is.
19:40:07:12 I mean, what it seems to me the problem is, traffic
19:40:13:06 might not go quite as fast.
19:40:15:15 What's the public safety problem?

19:40:18:06 >> The public safety issue is that the public, if these
19:40:22:21 failing movements are not mitigated in some form, then
19:40:27:03 this can cause an issue, a backup issue.
19:40:30:06 I ride Meridian every day.
19:40:32:06 I'm telling you, it does back up, especially on the
19:40:35:07 elevated.
19:40:36:21 That's a condition at this point.
19:40:37:21 When we do the study, we're studying in the future.
19:40:40:03 Not only do we add what is currently existing on the
19:40:42:21 roadway, we add in all the projects approved but not
19:40:45:06 built yet.
19:40:45:25 We add -- you know all the rezonings we've done in
19:40:49:19 Channelside, all those units, all those people living
19:40:52:00 in the units add additional traffic to the roadway as
19:40:54:13 well as growth added to the roadway as well as his
19:40:57:18 project on top of all of that.
19:40:59:09 If you looked at it in that point of view, maybe there
19:41:02:15 would be a lot more traffic.
19:41:04:03 All the other approved rezonings in the pipeline, all
19:41:07:01 those being built, yes, there would be a detrimental
19:41:10:00 impact to our roadways.
19:41:12:15 >>MARY MULHERN: You're talking -- okay.
19:41:14:00 This petitioner who wants to build this building right
19:41:18:03 here, you can hold them responsible for traffic backed
19:41:23:07 up on the Crosstown?

19:41:26:04 >> This is the issue.
19:41:28:06 His project is built on top of other projects that have
19:41:30:21 already been approved.
19:41:31:28 It's all about succession.
19:41:33:13 The first project that comes in, no mitigation of
19:41:37:12 roadways are doing great.
19:41:38:18 Great.
19:41:39:03 Next one comes in, oh, the roads are getting a little
19:41:41:25 worse.
19:41:42:06 More and more projects come in.
19:41:43:21 More and more units come in.
19:41:45:13 Additional traffic.
19:41:46:09 He's not required to mitigate movements that he did
19:41:49:04 not -- he's only required to mitigate his portion.
19:41:52:16 We're not asking him to put in a left-turn lane.
19:41:55:09 We're saying you need to mitigate your additional two
19:41:57:24 cars on that turn lane, whatever that is.
19:42:00:21 >>MARY MULHERN: How is he supposed to mitigate it?
19:42:03:24 >> We do a calculation to figure out what is needed.
19:42:05:28 For instance, if it's a failing left-turn lane, an
19:42:08:22 additional turn lane, we would put in that number.
19:42:11:09 Additional turn lane would be there, and they pay their
19:42:13:24 portion of that.
19:42:14:24 They added several cars to it, they'll add a portion to
19:42:17:27 it.

19:42:19:28 >>MARY MULHERN: I understand.
19:42:21:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
19:42:24:28 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: I support Mr. Stoltenberg, what he's
19:42:27:00 doing down there.
19:42:31:03 Now reading on page 38, transportation objects to the
19:42:35:06 petition being heard today, 12/11.
19:42:35:13 Evidently, on October 8th, you requested a report and
19:42:39:00 you haven't received it.
19:42:40:25 >> Yes, sir.
19:42:41:13 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: We have to be fair with staff.
19:42:43:03 They need this to analyze the traffic down there.
19:42:47:13 I'm not an expert in traffic like some people on this
19:42:51:00 commission are, this Council are.
19:42:52:28 So you agree with me, Mr. Miranda?
19:42:58:28 >> You are more than an expert.
19:43:01:09 You drive --
19:43:02:22 >> I don't drive a bicycle either.
19:43:04:21 Traffic has asked for this to be delayed, but I support
19:43:09:01 your project.
19:43:10:00 And I support what you're doing down there in the past,
19:43:13:21 today and in the future, because it takes guts to do
19:43:16:21 what you're doing.
19:43:18:04 >> We're still standing.
19:43:20:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question about the LEED
19:43:22:22 certification that you say you'll get for this.

19:43:25:15 Could you explain why this will be -- what are the
19:43:30:12 LEED-like qualities to this building, why this will be
19:43:33:12 a LEED building?
19:43:35:06 >> I'll let Richard address that.
19:43:40:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can I suggest, though, before we move
19:43:42:06 to that, we have an issue that we need to resolve here
19:43:44:28 before we can go further, as I understand.
19:43:47:06 So we need to address staff's concern.
19:43:52:10 What I'm hearing, really, there are three issues.
19:43:54:27 The tree mitigation or tree issue.
19:43:58:01 Solid waste issue with the dumpster, and then the
19:44:00:22 traffic mitigation.
19:44:03:12 We need to resolve those issues.
19:44:05:00 As I understand it, we can't move forward with this
19:44:07:28 project until these are dealt with.
19:44:09:27 The LEED issue, we can come back to that.
19:44:12:15 These three issues I'll tell you, I have some concerns
19:44:15:06 when I hear what I'm hearing today.
19:44:17:09 So we need to see how we're going to address those
19:44:21:06 issues.
19:44:22:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The petitioner said that he had
19:44:26:24 some -- I'm, as we know, a big tree lover.
19:44:30:04 I love large oak trees.
19:44:32:00 Cabbage palms I have very little affection for.
19:44:34:27 You said the two other oak trees are small.

19:44:37:21 The staff addressed the size of the oak trees.
19:44:41:00 The idea of setting something aside during a two-year
19:44:44:12 construction project sounds counterintuitive.
19:44:47:03 >> I understand.
19:44:47:15 What Ms. Danielewicz-Bryson was pointing out, given the
19:44:51:22 size of the site, he is required to retain 50% on-site
19:44:55:28 trees.
19:44:56:09 The way the waiver is currently stated on the site,
19:44:58:09 it's an either-or --
19:44:59:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could he rewrite it?
19:45:01:15 >> Yes, but just let me finish.
19:45:02:18 It's an either-or, and staff was not comfortable with
19:45:05:00 that.
19:45:05:15 They are saying if you're asking for the 95% removal,
19:45:09:12 we at minimum, and I just read back through her
19:45:13:21 comments again, she would not like for them to pay into
19:45:16:21 tree bank.
19:45:18:00 She would like them to commit to replant the inch for
19:45:21:00 inch over the 50% back on his site somewhere to
19:45:24:06 re-establish the canopy instead of paying into tree
19:45:27:21 bank which doesn't necessarily go.
19:45:30:00 Typically what staff provides you with at these
19:45:32:06 rezonings is a revision sheet in between first and
19:45:35:04 second reading that tells us how to -- that tells you
19:45:38:22 how to fix the things.

19:45:39:22 Unfortunately this evening, we have things not as
19:45:41:12 quickly resolvable as statement of direction from
19:45:44:06 Council.
19:45:45:12 Solid waste is not here this evening to speak to
19:45:48:19 whether or not what Mr. Stoltenberg has been proposing
19:45:53:15 on this meets technical standards.
19:45:55:18 So to say that he would like to leave it where it is,
19:45:58:22 you know, I can't speak for solid waste when they put
19:46:01:12 their transparency down to see if actually their truck
19:46:03:28 can maneuver and meet technical standards to service
19:46:06:27 his site is something that could be resolved in between
19:46:10:03 first and second reading.
19:46:11:12 That would be an item that I feel would need to be --
19:46:15:06 go back with solid waste.
19:46:16:13 Make sure that it actually functions to meet technical
19:46:20:06 standards.
19:46:20:21 We have had that happen on one other project where a
19:46:23:27 modification was made in between first and second
19:46:26:07 reading and then it didn't function.
19:46:28:03 And we would be back here, back at first reading with
19:46:30:15 you again because that couldn't be certified because it
19:46:33:06 couldn't meet technical standards, and technical
19:46:35:12 standards cannot be waived.
19:46:37:06 I want to make that clear in relationship to solid
19:46:41:06 waste.

19:46:43:00 Tree and landscape, I do believe if it is the intention
19:46:44:06 that 95% be removed, a waiver would be added for that
19:46:47:00 to take care of that.
19:46:48:13 As I said, staff would recommend that anything above
19:46:51:00 the 50% be replaced inch for inch somewhere on site
19:46:56:00 versus payment into the tree bank.
19:46:57:25 I believe it may be Mr. Stoltenberg's intent to pay
19:47:00:13 into tree bank.
19:47:01:16 I would like for him to speak to that further.
19:47:03:19 I believe that's the waiver on the plan today that
19:47:06:04 staff does not support.
19:47:07:04 That would be the tree and landscape and the solid
19:47:09:06 waste.
19:47:09:25 Urban design, Mr. Stair is here.
19:47:12:04 I don't know about that.
19:47:13:01 But I think right there, the solid waste in and of
19:47:15:27 itself causes an issue because that's something that we
19:47:18:21 would need to get down on a plan.
19:47:21:00 Have solid waste look at.
19:47:22:10 Again, they have all sorts of little transparencies
19:47:25:03 they put on, make sure their trucks can get in and
19:47:28:13 maneuver, get out, function, and then we could go
19:47:31:12 forward or continue first reading so those
19:47:33:25 modifications and those things could get cleaned up.
19:47:36:25 I have a revision sheet, but it's kind of an if then

19:47:42:00 revision sheet, and I don't know that it would
19:47:45:00 necessarily get you to the point you want to be at
19:47:47:09 without forcing you back to first reading again.
19:47:49:18 If you feel comfortable that that's your desire to move
19:47:52:04 that way, then we can do our best to do that.
19:47:55:00 I don't know that I'd recommend that.
19:47:57:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
19:47:58:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
19:48:01:06 Chairman, as I sit here in the back listening to this
19:48:03:27 presentation, it's a perplexing issue when you look at
19:48:10:07 the technical standards, the tree and landscape issue,
19:48:12:22 the solid waste issue, we can debate this for the next
19:48:15:03 three hours, and I don't mind being here for three or
19:48:18:10 five hours, but I think the appropriate place for this
19:48:21:10 is to go back, for them to resolve these issues or some
19:48:27:25 were in agreement, some were in the middle of this
19:48:30:06 thing so that we can solve the solid waste issue.
19:48:33:12 They are not here this evening.
19:48:35:09 Make sure that they are here.
19:48:38:22 I know everything has urgency.
19:48:40:15 I know when you have financing, I assume you want to
19:48:43:18 get things done right away.
19:48:45:19 I don't know if there's a contract or certain date to
19:48:48:18 close, to borrow, no to the borrow, sell or not to
19:48:51:18 sell, to buy or not to buy.

19:48:53:13 What I'm saying is, if we could delay this to the next
19:48:56:13 night hearing, put it first on the agenda so that this
19:48:59:18 petitioner, Mr. Stoltenberg, has done an outstanding
19:49:02:16 job and a successful one in the past, and I commend him
19:49:07:15 and his staff for doing these things.
19:49:10:00 But we're so far apart, that it would take something
19:49:15:00 short of a miracle for tonight to work these things
19:49:18:27 out.
19:49:19:10 Transportation has concluded that they are not happy.
19:49:23:10 And there's a reason for it.
19:49:26:21 Yes, petitioner didn't have to do anything.
19:49:29:15 There was no one there.
19:49:30:19 Petitioner two didn't have to do anything.
19:49:32:25 Only two seagulls there.
19:49:34:24 Now petitioner three, four and five get around, and now
19:49:38:01 you have a problem, baby.
19:49:39:19 There's a lot of people there.
19:49:41:07 And they are looking into the future.
19:49:43:00 And he's looking into the present with the future in
19:49:46:12 mind.
19:49:46:22 So it's hard for us to come to a consensus.
19:49:52:07 That's my feeling.
19:49:53:15 A consensus tonight and solve all these problems.
19:49:58:09 Solid waste is not here.
19:49:59:15 The transportation department is adamant.

19:50:02:21 And tree and landscape is in doubt.
19:50:05:04 That's all I got to say, Mr. Chairman.
19:50:08:22 Maybe they can ask for a change to another date so they
19:50:12:27 can work these things out with the proper department.
19:50:16:15 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to ask legal, but first, I
19:50:20:10 want to say, if we do continue or this doesn't go
19:50:25:00 forward tonight and you come back, I think that the
19:50:30:16 tree thing, I think from you being in Channelside,
19:50:34:19 there's nothing Channelside needs more than trees.
19:50:38:04 I think it would be much better for you to at least
19:50:42:06 replace the trees.
19:50:44:06 And I agree with Linda, cabbage palms.
19:50:46:21 But you planted the cabbage palms.
19:50:49:25 >> No, they were there.
19:50:50:25 It's not a question of how many trees.
19:50:52:18 We're putting in all new trees.
19:50:54:12 We're putting in more trees than you're required to do.
19:50:57:16 It's just a question, does it make sense to save the
19:51:00:04 old beat up cabbage palms, truck them off and bring
19:51:03:10 them back.
19:51:04:06 >>MARY MULHERN: That wasn't what I heard.
19:51:05:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That isn't what I heard either.
19:51:08:07 >>MARY MULHERN: That you need to replace them inch for
19:51:10:12 inch.
19:51:11:00 I don't know how you say it.

19:51:12:10 Isn't that what you said?
19:51:16:07 >> You're saying you want me to take the trees and ship
19:51:18:25 them to a nursery, water them for two years and bring
19:51:21:21 them back.
19:51:22:28 >>ABBYE FEELEY: No, we did not say that.
19:51:24:28 The way that it was written, it was unclear as to what
19:51:29:21 the intent was.
19:51:31:06 It said if they could be planted they would.
19:51:34:03 If not -- what Mary was saying, we would like you to
19:51:38:04 commit one way or the other.
19:51:39:18 Either transplant, it's your choice, either transplant
19:51:42:06 or if you choose not to transplant, to ask for the
19:51:44:24 waiver to the 95% and then commit to replace on your
19:51:50:00 site inch for inch from the 50% to the 95.
19:51:54:06 So that 45% extra that you're getting the waiver for
19:51:57:18 from what you're required to retain, that those
19:52:01:01 replacements be planted on-site and not paid as a fee
19:52:04:21 into tree bank, so that we actually get trees back on
19:52:07:27 the site.
19:52:08:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I think that seems really reasonable.
19:52:10:28 >> I have no problem with that.
19:52:13:01 >>MARY MULHERN: My question for legal is, if he's
19:52:15:12 willing to, can he ask for a continuance?
19:52:18:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Sure, absolutely.
19:52:21:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a philosophical question for

19:52:23:13 legal.
19:52:23:24 If I may.
19:52:25:19 I know the Channel District really well.
19:52:30:16 We are not going to be widening any more streets in the
19:52:35:06 Channel District.
19:52:36:19 I think what the Channel District needs is to have
19:52:40:25 better sidewalks, tree grates, transit stops, public
19:52:47:22 benches.
19:52:48:21 And if there were any money spent on transportation, I
19:52:53:03 don't think it should be oriented toward cars.
19:52:56:07 I think it needs to be oriented toward pedestrians and
19:52:59:10 transit users.
19:53:00:21 Do we currently have a mechanism so that if the
19:53:04:16 petitioner were to put any money into transportation
19:53:06:24 improvements, it could be spent on pedestrian
19:53:09:06 improvements because pedestrians are a form of
19:53:12:15 transportation as well as cars.
19:53:14:09 And I feel like all our rules are skewed toward cars
19:53:19:03 and getting cars through intersections more quickly.
19:53:22:12 What I feel like we need now in the Channel District is
19:53:25:13 to make it more pedestrian friendly.
19:53:28:12 I think any investment should be to enhance the
19:53:31:04 pedestrian experience.
19:53:32:06 Do we have that mechanism currently?
19:53:38:28 >> From a strictly legal perspective, any mitigation

19:53:41:10 that he would be paying would need to go to somehow
19:53:42:13 alleviate the problem that he's exacerbating or the
19:53:46:16 problem that he's causing.
19:53:47:21 That potentially in my mind, not being an engineer or
19:53:52:12 anything, could be sidewalks or could be anything like
19:53:54:15 that.
19:53:55:03 But that would be a question that you'd need an
19:53:57:16 engineer to answer about whether or not they would
19:53:59:27 accept some sort of project of increasing sidewalks or
19:54:03:19 somehow increasing the pedestrian friendliness of the
19:54:07:04 area to mitigate whatever failures that they are
19:54:11:00 saying.
19:54:11:15 I can't answer that.
19:54:12:09 Legally, it would be possible if there's a rational
19:54:15:24 basis to solving the problem.
19:54:17:06 The money has to go toward solving the problem.
19:54:21:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But I'm saying, this whole premise,
19:54:25:15 is that every person using a car is wrong.
19:54:31:03 We're moving toward that in our comp plan.
19:54:33:10 This is not the way of the future.
19:54:34:27 This is the way that things used to be.
19:54:36:15 It is not the way we should be thinking now.
19:54:38:18 And if there's anything we need to improve in the
19:54:41:03 Channel District, it's to make it safer for
19:54:44:28 pedestrians, not for people going through Meridian and

19:54:49:13 getting on the Crosstown to go to Brandon.
19:54:52:06 I mean --
19:54:53:15 >>REBECCA KERT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena, I completely
19:54:55:24 hear what you are saying.
19:54:57:04 As far as the global issue, there are a lot of things
19:54:59:06 going forward with the comprehensive plan that are
19:55:01:00 addressing some of those issues.
19:55:02:09 Julia Cole is the one more fully versed in that.
19:55:05:09 I'm just not going to be able to move you forward --
19:55:08:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's not the issue on the table
19:55:09:21 tonight.
19:55:10:03 That's not the issue.
19:55:11:09 My concern tonight is we want -- the issue is -- the
19:55:16:04 issue on the table is that from the transportation
19:55:18:03 standpoint, they are saying there has to be mitigation.
19:55:21:09 That's the issue.
19:55:22:12 That's one of the issues.
19:55:24:03 The other issue is solid waste, right?
19:55:26:10 The other issue, the tree.
19:55:29:04 And I think Wilson Stair has something.
19:55:32:01 But my question tonight is, are we going to have any
19:55:34:13 movement to resolve these tonight or continue this?
19:55:36:24 There's no need to spend another hour on the issue if
19:55:40:06 we don't have some kind of consensus.
19:55:42:18 I'm just telling you.

19:55:43:21 >> I understand that.
19:55:44:06 Let me do this.
19:55:45:03 This is my partner, Frank Bombeeck.
19:55:47:07 He would like to say a few words.
19:55:52:06 I'll let him take it from here.
19:55:52:09 >> My name is Frank Bombeeck.
19:55:53:19 I have been sworn in.
19:55:56:03 I would like to address two issues.
19:55:57:25 The trees -- the other things we can handle.
19:55:58:06 Yesterday at 1:00, we got the report in from staff with
19:56:02:15 these little issues.
19:56:03:28 Ken Stoltenberg is the person trying to resolve all the
19:56:07:00 issues.
19:56:07:12 These issues in front of you would not have come up,
19:56:11:04 especially not from the trees and Wilson Stair if we
19:56:14:07 had the report.
19:56:15:00 If we get it yesterday at 1:00 and say, sorry,
19:56:18:03 basically, you didn't receive it, I didn't see it
19:56:20:10 approval basically sent to you.
19:56:22:18 I can't address it.
19:56:23:18 That's one thing of procedure that I find completely
19:56:26:09 wrong.
19:56:26:21 The two issues that we have are with solid waste and
19:56:31:07 transportation.
19:56:32:03 Solid waste.

19:56:32:28 I would like to show you one thing on the solid waste.
19:56:35:16 Basically what people are asking us to do is basically
19:56:39:15 put this dumpster from here.
19:56:43:09 Basically, it has an enormous space -- on the brick
19:56:49:10 wall.
19:56:49:22 I love that building, too.
19:56:51:10 Basically, we put the dumpster -- we have a lot of
19:56:59:15 people that are going in here.
19:57:01:10 To talk about transportation, basically, transportation
19:57:04:18 and answer your question straightforward,
19:57:07:12 transportation doesn't do internal capture.
19:57:10:00 Basically, they assume that the people that go to our
19:57:12:25 shopping center, take their car, park it in the garage
19:57:15:27 at grand contractual and go to the store.
19:57:18:25 The fitness center, the power house gym people, they
19:57:22:22 assume people take their car, drive it to the site and
19:57:26:16 do not walk.
19:57:27:09 No wonder we have failing movements.
19:57:32:03 They want us to pay $100,000 -- and we agreed last time
19:57:33:16 to it because it came up at the 11th hour and had a
19:57:37:21 very heated conversation with Ms. Calloway and
19:57:39:13 basically spoke with Mark Huey after that because we
19:57:42:07 have to pay that.
19:57:43:15 Whatever we do between the first and second reading or
19:57:47:28 the second motion, we will not resolve this issue

19:57:51:00 because basically we cannot solve this problem.
19:57:53:09 We cannot solve the problem.
19:57:55:07 It is a problem about paying $100,000 or not $100,000.
19:57:59:15 I think it's not fair.
19:58:01:03 Basically we have -- basically -- we are emptying from
19:58:09:21 Madison Street which we fixed for $63,000 otherwise
19:58:13:16 couldn't get the COs for grand central.
19:58:16:07 Basically, that's what we had done.
19:58:21:18 Basically, we will not resolve the issue over here of
19:58:24:09 the failing movement.
19:58:25:21 I would like to have the traffic engineer and respected
19:58:29:24 traffic engineer in the town basically say no matter
19:58:32:04 what we do, we will not resolve the issue because of
19:58:36:03 the reversible expressway.
19:58:38:06 That's the case.
19:58:39:00 We will not resolve the issue.
19:58:41:19 Solid waste is a matter of put it on the street or --
19:58:45:06 the last time we have to listen to solid waste, you
19:58:48:10 know how much money it cost us for grand central?
19:58:51:01 We followed their direction.
19:58:52:21 $100,000 basically I had to spend.
19:58:54:27 I had to spend $100,000 to fix it.
19:58:57:19 We forwarded the specifications.
19:58:59:12 Nothing was correct.
19:59:01:09 Nothing worked, basically.

19:59:02:27 And we had to spend $100,000.
19:59:05:04 Not the city.
19:59:05:27 We had to do it.
19:59:06:22 I could go on and on about what we have to face with
19:59:10:06 these kind of things.
19:59:11:27 Solid waste, either we put it there or the street.
19:59:15:03 We built the building, we tried to make it nice.
19:59:18:00 And solid waste is determining that.
19:59:20:12 Basically in the corner that it doesn't work.
19:59:22:03 Basically, not our problem.
19:59:23:21 It's a problem for the whole community but internal
19:59:26:04 capture --
19:59:30:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, then --
19:59:35:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to move this thing ahead.
19:59:39:03 >> We cannot resolve it.
19:59:40:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If the solid waste thing doesn't
19:59:42:24 work, they'll come back and tell us between first and
19:59:45:06 second reading.
19:59:45:27 I feel like what's being proposed will be a great
19:59:50:27 amenity for the Channel District.
19:59:52:24 The color thing is my concern.
19:59:56:00 If Wilson gets to way in between at 30% and 60%, I
20:00:00:04 believe that we'll address that.
20:00:02:00 I would like to make a motion to close the public
20:00:03:27 hearing with an effort to move this thing ahead.

20:00:06:03 That's my motion.
20:00:06:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, before you do that, I just
20:00:09:18 want it to be clear, the record has made it clear that
20:00:12:09 the petitioner has asked you to hear from his traffic
20:00:16:06 engineer.
20:00:16:28 If he wishes to do that, if he wishes to still have
20:00:19:19 that -- he has that right if he wishes.
20:00:22:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the problem with that is we have
20:00:24:21 gone over their presentation time.
20:00:27:21 -- let me finish.
20:00:29:27 Let me run the meeting.
20:00:31:12 We just -- he just gave another presentation.
20:00:37:24 Now, I understand what you're saying from a legal
20:00:40:28 standpoint, but we've given quite a bit of the time
20:00:45:27 over this.
20:00:47:06 I don't know what the motion is going to be, but either
20:00:49:16 way, I don't see it going forward tonight.
20:00:53:15 I just don't see that.
20:00:56:22 Anyway, I'm just one person.
20:00:58:18 Now, you were saying that we need to hear from the
20:01:03:06 traffic person.
20:01:04:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm saying that he requested his last
20:01:07:07 statement before the motion was made was a request of
20:01:10:06 Council to have that person speak.
20:01:11:21 And that had not been addressed.

20:01:13:18 I don't know what Council's pleasure is with regard to
20:01:15:24 that.
20:01:16:01 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Does the traffic engineer want to
20:01:18:27 speak?
20:01:19:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the petitioner has requested
20:01:23:03 that.
20:01:23:18 I'll give him three minutes to come up and address
20:01:26:27 Council.
20:01:27:09 Then we are going to shut it down.
20:01:29:15 We're going to close it.
20:01:30:24 In the presentation, that should have all been
20:01:37:00 included.
20:01:37:18 I just gave him the opportunity to speak.
20:01:42:00 >> Good evening.
20:01:42:15 Ted links with links and associates.
20:01:44:10 I have been sworn in.
20:01:45:15 The biggest issue we have right now in the
20:01:49:03 transportation section is identifying appropriate cost
20:01:52:04 of mitigation.
20:01:53:07 The reason why we show the report with failing
20:01:58:27 movements is that we add 3% a year traffic growth for
20:02:03:21 the next four years.
20:02:05:06 On top of that, we add 17 projects that may or may not
20:02:08:22 get built in Channelside.
20:02:10:09 When you add all that together with no internal

20:02:12:27 capture, question of the actual distribution, it's
20:02:17:12 going to show some failing movements.
20:02:19:15 We're not going to fix the roads in this particular
20:02:22:15 area.
20:02:23:00 That would be not a good use of our money.
20:02:26:27 Certainly identifying better transit, better pedestrian
20:02:30:27 facilities might be an option that we could be looking
20:02:34:09 at.
20:02:34:19 But the only question we really have to work out with
20:02:37:04 the city staff is, is there going to be a mitigation
20:02:41:07 cost in addition to the fees for building this project?
20:02:45:07 Are there any questions?
20:02:49:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
20:02:50:09 Thank you, sir.
20:02:51:04 Thank you.
20:02:51:19 There's a motion to close.
20:02:57:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I made a motion to close.
20:03:01:09 >> You're going to need some sort of -- if this motion,
20:03:03:27 if your motion is going to be to approve, we're going
20:03:07:03 to need to have some sort of conditions to address
20:03:09:06 those things so things can be changed in between first
20:03:11:19 and second reading and certified by the zoning
20:03:14:18 administrator.
20:03:15:03 If we can't do that, if certification cannot take
20:03:18:09 place, but I'll see --

20:03:21:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I will not support a motion to move
20:03:24:12 ahead until we hear from solid waste and resolve the
20:03:27:12 issue on the traffic mitigation.
20:03:29:18 I'll tell you that now.
20:03:31:09 I have one vote.
20:03:32:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm prepared to address the
20:03:34:04 questions that you just raised, Ms. Feeley.
20:03:37:09 It seems to me that we clarified that the petitioner
20:03:39:21 has agreed to put in the landscaping that's required.
20:03:49:03 The solid waste request is because of the aesthetics of
20:03:52:21 the Channel District, that we ask that the location of
20:03:56:10 the dumpster be where it is and the solid waste people
20:04:00:22 report back to us -- to see if that wouldn't be
20:04:03:24 possible because it would certainly be a lot more
20:04:05:22 aesthetic for the area.
20:04:07:00 And for the transportation issue, I think that our
20:04:12:15 attorney gave us three points, which was -- the last
20:04:15:24 one was if we could identify specific reasons why we
20:04:19:01 should allow this, we needed to articulate them on the
20:04:21:24 record.
20:04:22:09 My reasons for that would be that when the city looked
20:04:26:27 at this, they didn't consider internal capture.
20:04:29:15 And I believe because of the location of this project,
20:04:31:28 that we're going to have significant internal capture
20:04:34:15 and, therefore, their projections of the impact on the

20:04:37:15 overall transportation system are overstated.
20:04:40:21 And, therefore, we should accept what's proposed.
20:04:43:15 Because I really think that this will be a pedestrian
20:04:48:00 oriented, transit oriented project that will have less
20:04:54:27 impact than what we traditionally have, which is very
20:04:59:28 suburban.
20:05:00:06 So that's my motion.
20:05:04:18 >> [INAUDIBLE - MICROPHONE NOT ON]
20:05:07:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Leave it where it is, which is out
20:05:09:12 of way.
20:05:09:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need a motion to close.
20:05:13:12 >> [INAUDIBLE - MICROPHONE NOT ON]
20:05:14:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That was my motion.
20:05:16:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have to close the public hearing,
20:05:18:16 and we can't take any more public comment at this
20:05:21:28 point.
20:05:24:21 >>THE CLERK: There is a motion on the floor by
20:05:26:09 Saul-Sena and Caetano to close the public hearing.
20:05:28:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
20:05:29:12 All in favor, signify by aye.
20:05:31:27 You want to state your motion.
20:05:33:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I thought I just did.
20:05:35:06 My motion is to pass this for first reading with the
20:05:38:25 following specific directions: That the dumpster stay
20:05:42:00 in the location it is because it's on the drawing, that

20:05:46:15 the landscaping be -- that the landscaping be --
20:06:00:16 >>ABBYE FEELEY: They are going to need to add a waiver
20:06:02:12 to increase from 50% to 95% for removal of trees
20:06:06:00 on-site in between first and second reading.
20:06:08:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The waiver be included as per the
20:06:10:21 staff's comment.
20:06:11:16 Lastly, that the transportation concerns be waived
20:06:13:12 because in this particular location, this particular
20:06:16:24 rezoning, the internal capture will address the
20:06:19:27 additional impact of traffic.
20:06:21:15 So I'd like to move an ordinance rezoning property in
20:06:24:13 the general vicinity of 1105 and 1115 Twiggs Street in
20:06:30:15 the City of Tampa, Florida, and more particularly
20:06:32:21 described in section 1 from zoning district
20:06:33:10 classification CD-3, Channel District residential
20:06:35:27 multifamily, to CD-2, Channel District residential
20:06:39:06 multifamily; providing an effective date.
20:06:40:22 I'd like to say that I always have great concerns about
20:06:44:01 density, but the things that they have included about
20:06:47:00 it being a LEED building, putting in a park, reusing
20:06:51:25 the materials from the historic building that's being
20:06:54:25 left, adding the walkway north to south to accommodate
20:06:57:24 the seaport people and the fact that there are no --
20:07:01:13 the residents of Channel District are very outspoken
20:07:05:27 when they are concerned about a proposed rezoning.

20:07:07:27 The fact that there's nobody from the Channel District
20:07:10:10 who is here and not in support of this to me speaks
20:07:16:03 volumes.
20:07:16:18 Lastly, I think it will be very pedestrian oriented and
20:07:19:09 create the kind of activity level that we want to see
20:07:21:19 in this area.
20:07:22:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I will second that motion, but I would
20:07:26:09 like to say in this market where we already have all
20:07:30:12 these empty lots in Channelside, I hope that if this
20:07:35:16 project isn't able to go forward, isn't able to get
20:07:38:25 financing, anything like that, I don't want to see that
20:07:41:21 historic building, I call it historic.
20:07:44:04 It may not be designated, but it's a beautiful building
20:07:47:28 that you're even saving the corner stones and bricks
20:07:52:09 from, I don't want to see that leveled with nothing
20:07:54:25 going up there.
20:07:55:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Good point.
20:07:56:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion.
20:07:59:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I'm not going to
20:08:01:07 support the motion.
20:08:02:03 Earlier I tried to speak on the tactical standards of
20:08:06:24 transportation, the tree and landscape.
20:08:08:16 Maybe the solid waste, the dumpster have been
20:08:12:00 satisfied, but they are far apart between first and
20:08:14:25 second reading.

20:08:15:18 This is going to be very hard to accomplish in the
20:08:20:18 future if this goes through.
20:08:23:03 And what happens, happens.
20:08:24:21 That means I can't tell somebody to walk and throw
20:08:27:22 their keys away if they want to go from here to
20:08:30:16 Brandon.
20:08:31:12 When you talked about Meridian and so forth.
20:08:35:09 There's got to be some traffic restraint.
20:08:39:06 There's got to be some traffic improvement and yes
20:08:42:22 should be and should always have pedestrian friendly
20:08:44:21 walkways.
20:08:45:18 There's no doubt about that.
20:08:47:00 But for the reasons that I've just stated and I'm not
20:08:50:15 against the project.
20:08:51:15 I think the project is a great project, but the most
20:08:54:06 important one is that transportation.
20:08:55:24 If there's going to be a clog in the drain, it's going
20:09:01:09 to happen very soon in that area.
20:09:03:09 And for that reason, I'm not going to support the
20:09:06:28 motion.
20:09:09:03 >>GWEN MILLER: I felt that since we had all the
20:09:11:16 problems we would continue this hearing so that we can
20:09:15:19 meet with solid waste, meet with transportation again
20:09:18:00 and meet with Mr. Stair and make sure that everything
20:09:21:28 is in compliance before we move it on to first reading.

20:09:25:04 But the way we're going is -- let the dumpster stay
20:09:29:07 where it is, solid waste go there and say you can't do
20:09:31:19 it, then what we do?
20:09:33:00 Come back again go back to first reading.
20:09:35:03 I don't think we should put ourselves or put the
20:09:37:24 petitioner through that.
20:09:39:00 Best thing to do is a continuance.
20:09:43:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
20:09:44:00 Let me say I'm not going to support it.
20:09:46:27 It's a great project.
20:09:47:22 I like the project.
20:09:49:06 As far as I'm concerned, two outstanding issues.
20:09:52:15 Transportation mitigation and solid waste.
20:09:53:27 I'm a process person.
20:09:55:00 You don't even have somebody here from solid waste to
20:09:57:04 address the issue.
20:09:58:00 And it's not that you don't trust the petitioner, but
20:10:00:27 you want to hear from your technical staff who
20:10:04:00 represents the city to make sure that they are in
20:10:07:01 compliance or that there won't be any future problems.
20:10:10:03 Okay?
20:10:10:15 Now, listen, folk, I've been on this board long enough
20:10:15:00 to know that there are certain issues that we don't
20:10:17:18 give in to.
20:10:18:24 Okay?

20:10:19:21 That we follow, we listen to staff, and we need to be
20:10:23:15 consistent.
20:10:24:00 We need to be fair with everybody.
20:10:26:24 I don't care who it is.
20:10:27:27 One thing you'll find about me, when you come before
20:10:30:12 the board, I'll ask the question.
20:10:32:06 I'll be fair.
20:10:33:00 And vote my conscience and conviction.
20:10:36:04 Tonight, I think that we have not heard from our staff
20:10:39:03 on solid waste and, secondly, our engineer for
20:10:42:09 transportation has a concern that has not been
20:10:44:12 addressed yet.
20:10:45:07 So I'm not going to support.
20:10:50:21 Once those issues are resolved, I'll be happy to give
20:10:53:15 my yes vote.
20:10:54:21 There's a motion on the floor.
20:10:57:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to see our transportation
20:11:00:15 standards changed to be reflective of urban densities.
20:11:04:15 I think that we're using suburban standards in an urban
20:11:07:12 setting.
20:11:08:04 And whether we move ahead on this at this moment or
20:11:11:06 not, if we're going to be a real city and we're going
20:11:14:00 to have real transportation oriented development, then
20:11:17:00 we need to have standards that reflect that.
20:11:19:19 And I think that what we have before us is very

20:11:23:00 suburban and not appropriate.
20:11:25:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
20:11:27:12 There's a motion on the floor.
20:11:28:25 The motion is for approval.
20:11:30:27 I see you, sir, but right now, we're closed and there's
20:11:33:27 a motion on the floor.
20:11:35:12 All in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.
20:11:38:04 Opposed?
20:11:42:18 >>THE CLERK: Motion failed with Dingfelder being
20:11:45:09 absent.
20:11:45:27 Miranda, Miller, Scott and Caetano voting no.
20:11:50:21 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: I move that we bring this at our next
20:11:53:21 evening -- we have to hear from Melanie's group,
20:12:00:06 transportation, supposed to be a report requested on
20:12:03:21 October 8th.
20:12:04:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, I believe the request was to have
20:12:08:21 the report by a certain date.
20:12:10:01 It wasn't offered.
20:12:11:06 The petitioner chose to move forward tonight with the
20:12:14:00 information that Council had before you.
20:12:16:06 So Council right now, your options -- you have no
20:12:20:12 motion on the floor.
20:12:21:15 Your public hearing is closed.
20:12:23:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Can we reopen the public hearing and
20:12:26:22 then continue it?

20:12:29:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to reopen the public hearing.
20:12:32:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Wait.
20:12:33:13 >>GWEN MILLER: I'm asking a question.
20:12:34:24 Can you reopen it and then ask for a continuance?
20:12:38:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If Council wishes to do so, that is an
20:12:40:21 appropriate motion.
20:12:41:13 Council's other choice would be to make any other
20:12:44:15 motion it deems appropriate based on the facts it
20:12:47:12 heard.
20:12:47:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I knew, I had a
20:12:50:18 feeling, a sensitivity that when I spoke, but I can't
20:12:54:12 ask for a continuation.
20:12:55:12 It's not my petition.
20:12:56:18 It's their petition.
20:12:57:21 They chose not to do that.
20:13:00:18 >>GWEN MILLER: We didn't give an opportunity.
20:13:02:18 Ms. Saul-Sena said she wants to make a motion.
20:13:09:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The way the rules read, and correct
20:13:11:28 me, I'm not -- from the prevailing side, on the next
20:13:16:16 hearing, you can make a motion to reopen.
20:13:20:06 But to reopen the hearing at the same time, I've never
20:13:23:21 heard of that.
20:13:27:15 >> We'll move --
20:13:28:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
20:13:29:09 That's not the case.

20:13:30:06 The issue is, once a motion fails, you can come back
20:13:33:22 and make another motion, if I'm not mistaken,
20:13:36:27 Mr. Miranda, you could make a motion to continue
20:13:39:15 without opening the public hearing.
20:13:41:03 You really could do that.
20:13:42:18 You can make a motion to say I move that we continue
20:13:44:28 the item until these two issues --
20:13:46:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I'm not objecting to
20:13:48:09 that at all.
20:13:49:03 That goes back to the original intent that -- iron out
20:13:53:01 the things with the appropriate department heads.
20:13:55:22 You can do that, sir.
20:13:57:24 You can open the hearing, but not -- you can open the
20:14:03:06 hearing but not for additional testimony.
20:14:04:25 They come back and only specific --
20:14:09:03 >>GWEN MILLER: I move to reopen the public hearing.
20:14:11:09 >> Second.
20:14:11:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
20:14:14:03 >>GWEN MILLER: I make a motion that we continue it.
20:14:20:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Tell them why.
20:14:23:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to hear from the petitioner.
20:14:26:01 Do they want a continuance to resolve the outstanding
20:14:29:00 issue?
20:14:29:15 I understand there to be at least two issues.
20:14:33:12 I could be wrong.

20:14:34:25 Am I accurate with that?
20:14:41:16 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes.
20:14:42:06 It would be to make a determination on mitigation or if
20:14:44:28 it is not, the petitioner's intent to pay mitigation,
20:14:48:15 then he'll probably let you know that tonight so that's
20:14:51:00 not an open-ended item out there.
20:14:53:28 Or if you are directing that that be worked out and
20:14:56:12 some to some sort -- and the other would be the solid
20:14:59:18 waste.
20:15:00:03 It's my understanding from the comments that were
20:15:01:28 provided by solid waste that they do not feel that the
20:15:04:24 current location meets technical standards to be
20:15:07:03 serviced to have trash collection.
20:15:09:12 They are not here to speak to that.
20:15:11:24 But that would, I guess, be that we would go back and
20:15:17:06 confirm that that is, in fact, true.
20:15:19:21 And that we would get either an alternative location.
20:15:25:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's what I was going to say.
20:15:27:03 You could get an alternative location.
20:15:28:25 If they can meet and work out some kind of compromise.
20:15:32:24 That's what I was trying to say earlier.
20:15:34:16 You can meet and say, okay, can we move it somewhere
20:15:38:00 else?
20:15:38:28 Fine, if you work that out, fine.
20:15:41:12 And then also on the traffic mitigation, you may work

20:15:46:18 something out, I don't know.
20:15:47:24 The issue for me, those two issues that you need to
20:15:50:24 address.
20:15:51:24 >> We'll gladly take a continuance.
20:15:54:22 Not to leave you hanging, we'll agree to the $100,000.
20:15:58:00 We don't think it's fair and would like to offer
20:16:00:06 further testimony about that when we come back.
20:16:02:06 But to leave nobody hanging, we'll pay it.
20:16:11:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So then if you're agreeing to pay the
20:16:13:15 mitigation --
20:16:25:18 >> The petitioner has two options.
20:16:27:10 He can pay the 100,000 mitigation which covered the 314
20:16:31:25 unit and the 20,000 square feet of office.
20:16:34:16 And then on top of that, he can add his additional
20:16:38:16 traffic.
20:16:39:12 Or, he has the option to reevaluate now his project
20:16:44:09 with the 600 unit and give me a mitigation payment.
20:16:47:27 He has one of those two options.
20:16:50:00 >>GWEN MILLER: That's why we're going to continue.
20:16:52:15 Let him meet with you.
20:16:54:21 >> Either he keeps the hundred thousand and adds
20:16:57:09 additional traffic and additional mitigation or
20:16:59:04 reevaluate the hundred thousand.
20:17:00:22 And we can come up with a new figure.
20:17:04:12 >>GWEN MILLER: You meet with them.

20:17:05:27 That's why we'll continue.
20:17:07:06 The date will be what, Ms. Feeley?
20:17:10:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, before you come to that.
20:17:12:15 Let me ask a question.
20:17:13:28 Why is solid waste not here?
20:17:18:27 >> I don't have an answer.
20:17:19:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, wait a minute, let me finish.
20:17:22:15 Here again, I just -- we are having a public hearing on
20:17:27:22 this and you are telling me staff is not here to
20:17:30:15 address our issues?
20:17:31:10 I mean, this --
20:17:43:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anytime that there is a solid waste
20:17:45:25 objection, they should be in this audience, no matter
20:17:48:03 what the issue is.
20:17:49:06 And that's all in fairness not only to us, to the
20:17:51:21 viewing public, especially to the petitioner because
20:17:55:00 they've been here.
20:17:55:22 They spent their money.
20:17:57:03 They spent their time, and to have that is a slap in
20:18:00:06 the face to all of us, to the petitioner who has been
20:18:03:28 very gracious, has been presented his plan, been very
20:18:08:03 forth right with us, and for us not to have somebody
20:18:10:28 here, it's a shame for the City of Tampa.
20:18:14:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Feeley, what's the date?
20:18:19:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: One more question of staff.

20:18:20:18 The petitioner said that they didn't get the staff
20:18:26:12 report until yesterday.
20:18:30:09 You know how City Council is supposed to get reports in
20:18:33:09 advance?
20:18:34:18 Aren't petitioners supposed to get the staff report in
20:18:37:22 advance so they can chat with you about the content of
20:18:40:03 the report?
20:18:41:03 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes, ma'am, they are.
20:18:42:10 And I did doc agenda the staff report to the clerk last
20:18:46:18 Thursday, which given how late last Thursday's second
20:18:51:06 readings ran, it was a little after 2:00.
20:18:53:22 I stayed late that night to 7:00 to doc agenda it.
20:18:57:24 It was available through the clerk system.
20:19:00:13 I personally sent the staff report to them yesterday as
20:19:03:04 an oversight.
20:19:04:00 It was an oversight.
20:19:05:06 I had doc agendaed it.
20:19:06:27 I thought I CC'd them on the doc agenda.
20:19:09:25 I erred.
20:19:10:25 I double sent it yesterday.
20:19:12:18 But it was available through the clerk's office last
20:19:15:04 Thursday.
20:19:15:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
20:19:17:06 Isn't the usual standard that they get it like at least
20:19:20:27 a week in advance?

20:19:22:18 >> When I doc agenda to the clerk, yes, ma'am, I
20:19:26:12 usually copy it to the petitioner as well.
20:19:28:21 It was an oversight.
20:19:30:03 I'm human.
20:19:30:27 I made an error.
20:19:32:01 I'm sorry.
20:19:33:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I want to say to the petitioner again,
20:19:35:10 I apologize for staff not being from solid waste.
20:19:38:22 In my opinion, this issue could have been resolved
20:19:41:18 tonight.
20:19:41:22 We could have been through with this.
20:19:48:00 >> On January 29, you have 15 cases, which is already
20:19:51:21 above the amount of cases that you take.
20:19:53:27 It's up to you if you wish to waive the rules.
20:19:56:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Waive the rules and do it in the morning
20:19:59:00 since there's no opposition.
20:20:00:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
20:20:02:00 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I don't believe you have a morning
20:20:04:09 session on January 29th.
20:20:09:19 >> The week before, the 15th.
20:20:12:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There is no opposition.
20:20:13:18 We can do this one at 5:30.
20:20:15:12 >>GWEN MILLER: We can do it in the morning.
20:20:18:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What's the date again?
20:20:19:15 What's the date again?

20:20:23:28 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Our next evening meeting is January 29.
20:20:26:19 You have January 22nd as your comp plan amendments.
20:20:29:21 I don't know what time they are starting.
20:20:31:10 That is an evening meeting.
20:20:33:06 January 29 is your next evening meeting.
20:20:35:12 You have several cases, 15 cases on there, or you have
20:20:38:21 your morning meetings which I believe January 8th is
20:20:41:12 your first meeting after the holidays.
20:20:43:06 Then two weeks after that in the morning, I believe.
20:20:46:09 Let Mr. Crew speak to that.
20:20:51:03 >>THE CLERK: Mr. Chairman, the next night meeting is
20:20:55:27 January the 8th.
20:20:57:10 After that is January 29th.
20:20:59:03 No night meeting on the 22nd.
20:21:01:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On the 8th, how many do we have?
20:21:06:00 >>THE CLERK: On the 8th, we have seven chapter 27
20:21:10:15 code amendments.
20:21:11:27 I'm sorry.
20:21:12:27 I'm looking at the morning.
20:21:13:27 In the evening, there is the Tampa comprehensive plan
20:21:15:27 update and one closure hearing at 6 p.m.
20:21:18:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we can take it the 8th of January.
20:21:21:21 Can we do the 8th of January?
20:21:25:03 >>GWEN MILLER: What time we have, Jim?
20:21:26:25 >>THE CLERK: That was the evening.

20:21:29:01 >>GWEN MILLER: What about morning?
20:21:30:15 >>THE CLERK: The morning was the seven code amendment
20:21:33:18 second hearings.
20:21:35:04 One map amendment, comprehensive plan map amendment.
20:21:39:10 One staff report under unfinished business and one
20:21:42:15 closure petition.
20:21:47:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It don't matter with me.
20:21:49:13 I'm trying to find what is convenient.
20:21:53:03 >>GWEN MILLER: I'll make a motion that we do it the
20:21:55:12 morning of January 8th at 10:00.
20:22:00:10 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I would just ask that there is enough
20:22:02:24 time because given where we are right now, we're going
20:22:05:09 to need those plans in-house very shortly in order to
20:22:08:10 be able to discuss the items, get solid waste to review
20:22:11:00 that and be back before you with the plan given the
20:22:14:19 holidays.
20:22:15:00 If the petitioner feels that's fine, that's not a
20:22:18:13 problem.
20:22:20:21 >>GWEN MILLER: January 8, you'll have everything?
20:22:26:24 >> Yes, ma'am, we'll address all the issues.
20:22:29:04 We'll be ready to go on the 8th.
20:22:32:18 10 a.m., yes, ma'am.
20:22:36:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close -- well, we can't
20:22:38:19 close.
20:22:39:07 Continue.

20:22:40:00 Motion to continue to January the 8th at 10 a.m.
20:22:44:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The year 2009.
20:22:46:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
20:22:47:12 Seconded by Councilman Miranda.
20:22:49:07 All in favor, signify by aye.
20:22:51:09 Opposed?
20:22:51:28 Okay.
20:22:56:18 Thank you.
20:22:57:21 Our last item for the evening, item 18.
20:23:30:15 >> Good evening, Council.
20:23:32:00 Samantha Fenger, Land Development Coordination.
20:23:34:07 I have been sworn.
20:23:35:07 Item number 19, petition number V08-112 is here before
20:23:39:15 you tonight for 4816-43rd Street North.
20:23:43:24 Currently zoned RS-50 and seeking special use approval
20:23:46:27 for place of religious assembly.
20:23:48:21 The .93-acre site is located in a residential
20:23:52:06 single-family zoning district and is bordered by
20:23:54:06 residential to the north, south and west and the City
20:23:57:06 of Tampa park, Williams Park Pool and Playground to the
20:24:00:04 east.
20:24:00:12 The main building setbacks are as follows.
20:24:02:15 North 21 feet, 9 inches.
20:24:04:24 South 78 feet.
20:24:06:03 West 87 feet, 6 inches.

20:24:08:15 And east 103 feet, 11 inches.
20:24:11:10 The proposed use requires 36 parking spaces and 38
20:24:14:27 spaces are being provided, including two ADA spaces.
20:24:18:16 The subject site was formally granted a special use
20:24:22:03 permit in 2004 for a place of religious assembly,
20:24:25:00 however the project was never constructed.
20:24:27:12 The property is located in the East Tampa overlay
20:24:30:06 district.
20:24:30:25 I'll provide you with the zoning atlas to familiarize
20:24:35:09 you with the site.
20:24:36:21 The site is located here with Ellicott on the north and
20:24:48:06 Osborne on the south.
20:24:50:12 As you can see, it's located right off of 43rd
20:25:01:06 Street.
20:25:01:16 Access is off of 43rd.
20:25:03:12 Ellicott on the north.
20:25:05:00 Osborne on the south.
20:25:06:07 Looking north on 43rd.
20:25:19:04 Looking south on north 43rd.
20:25:22:16 This is Williams park looking east on north 43rd.
20:25:27:25 Subject site looking west on north 43rd.
20:25:33:10 Subject site looking west on north 43rd.
20:25:39:07 Residential next to the subject property looking west
20:25:44:18 on north 43rd.
20:25:46:13 Residential on the corner of Ellicott looking west on

20:25:53:03 north 43rd.
20:25:54:18 Also residential on the corner of Ellicott looking west
20:25:59:03 on north 43rd.
20:26:00:21 This is about 500 feet looking north on Ellicott.
20:26:06:24 It's the elementary school.
20:26:09:06 Another photo of the elementary school looking north.
20:26:14:24 And this is looking west on Ellicott.
20:26:19:03 The petitioner is requesting four waivers.
20:26:28:06 One to reduce the required buffer on the northern and
20:26:30:24 southern property line from 10 feet to 8.
20:26:33:15 To allow for 100% grass parking with the exception of
20:26:36:06 the ADA spaces.
20:26:38:12 Three, to reduce the required northern yard from
20:26:40:22 40 feet to 20 feet, 9 inches.
20:26:43:15 And finally, to allow access to a local street along
20:26:47:03 north 43rd Street.
20:26:48:21 The development review committee has reviewed the
20:26:50:25 petition and finds it inconsistent with the applicable
20:26:53:06 City of Tampa Land Development regulations.
20:26:55:15 However, if the applicant revises the site plan with
20:26:58:00 the required notes and site plan revisions as stated in
20:27:00:27 the report between 1st and second reading, the DRC
20:27:04:27 will amend its determination and find the petition
20:27:07:18 consistent.
20:27:08:00 To brief you quickly on Land Development findings, most

20:27:11:01 items are technical in nature such as amending site
20:27:13:04 plan notes and requested revision form has been
20:27:15:12 submitted for the record.
20:27:16:12 This concludes my presentation, and staff is it
20:27:18:22 available for any questions.
20:27:21:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Planning Commission?
20:27:32:15 >>TONY GARCIA: Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.
20:27:34:10 I have been sworn in.
20:27:35:18 Couple of additional comments to add on to Ms. Fenger's
20:27:39:10 comments, the site is located east of 40th Street, as
20:27:44:28 you can see, it interfaces a public park and a public
20:27:50:18 school, so you have some community serving uses over
20:27:53:00 here and you're within a residential neighborhood.
20:27:55:00 This is actually going to be a contributing use to
20:27:59:24 what's already existing in this particular area.
20:28:01:27 Residential 10 does allow consideration of community
20:28:04:06 serving uses also such as day care centers in addition
20:28:07:19 to churches.
20:28:08:15 The request is for 120-seat church.
20:28:15:04 This was approved previously as Ms. Fenger also stated
20:28:18:13 to you for a church that's just for circumstances which
20:28:22:01 are not known to me at this juncture.
20:28:25:06 They were not able to go ahead and construct it for
20:28:27:28 whatever reason, but it was approved previously for a
20:28:30:09 church use.

20:28:31:00 Planning Commission staff found that the proposed
20:28:32:15 request was consistent and complementary with the
20:28:34:15 community serving uses in proximity to the site.
20:28:39:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
20:28:40:12 Petitioner?
20:28:46:03 >> Good evening, Chairman, and City Council members.
20:28:48:24 James Truex, 4706 North Thatcher Avenue.
20:28:54:06 I have been sworn in.
20:28:55:10 We just want to build a church.
20:28:57:21 4816 North 43rd.
20:28:59:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
20:29:00:12 Okay.
20:29:00:27 Anyone here want to speak in regards to this project,
20:29:06:09 anyone who is in opposition?
20:29:07:28 Anybody in opposition?
20:29:18:06 >> Good evening.
20:29:19:03 I'm Solana Davis.
20:29:21:25 Residential owner of 4215 East Ellicott Street, which
20:29:25:19 is directly behind the property that they wish to build
20:29:30:03 on.
20:29:30:15 You have to excuse me, I'm not used to this forum.
20:29:33:09 I'm from overseas Air Force.
20:29:35:22 And the property is mine.
20:29:36:22 I'm planning to come home and basically remodel the
20:29:39:07 home.

20:29:39:19 My father passed away.
20:29:41:06 I don't know how to put this, basically I oppose having
20:29:47:06 the church.
20:29:48:03 It's basically right in my backyard.
20:29:50:15 There's no easier way to put it.
20:29:52:27 There's the school directly across the street.
20:29:57:01 That doesn't, you know, bother anything because there's
20:29:59:28 nothing behind it.
20:30:00:28 It's on a secluded piece of land.
20:30:04:15 In my backyard, at the back of the fence is where they
20:30:07:00 want to build as well as two other of my neighbors'
20:30:10:03 homes.
20:30:10:18 To me, it's not secluded enough to where it won't be an
20:30:15:24 excessive noise disturbance and cause like worse
20:30:20:07 traffic and parking issues.
20:30:21:18 There's already small residential streets.
20:30:24:25 And basically, I'd like to maintain and further develop
20:30:28:04 a more uniform neighborhood of residential homes and
20:30:31:21 basically, I feel like it would be detrimental to
20:30:36:04 sustain and possibly increase further the property
20:30:40:12 value.
20:30:41:12 Should owners want to sell or, you know, or if people
20:30:44:06 want to buy.
20:30:45:09 To basically have a church right in your backyard with
20:30:48:15 those types of activities is a disturbance.

20:30:56:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Ma'am, is there any kind of fence or
20:31:00:22 landscaping or something like that that would make you
20:31:03:15 more comfortable with this petition?
20:31:06:03 >> Honestly, no, ma'am.
20:31:07:18 For the simple fact, like I said, usually in the
20:31:10:21 neighborhood, you have homes backed up to homes and you
20:31:13:27 share your backyard with your neighbor.
20:31:15:27 Basically, the church would be right in my backyard.
20:31:18:27 So I would be right in earshot of morning services,
20:31:21:24 evening services.
20:31:23:06 It's kind of like having a 7-eleven in your backyard or
20:31:28:27 rec center in your backyard.
20:31:30:25 To have a hodgepodge of things that close proximity
20:31:34:15 takes the value down.
20:31:36:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could you show us on this aerial
20:31:40:22 which your house is?
20:31:42:06 I think the staff person will put it up there.
20:32:22:06 >> This is it here.
20:32:23:18 This is my home.
20:32:25:01 So right here.
20:32:26:19 And I noticed a few weeks ago, there were the same
20:32:32:09 orange bands on the trees on the property they want to
20:32:36:06 build on as well as in my backyard.
20:32:38:07 I called the property appraiser's office to see what
20:32:41:24 was going on.

20:32:42:15 They spoke about the previous petition that they put in
20:32:45:03 that was never acted upon.
20:32:46:24 To make a long story short, my concern as well is
20:32:49:19 what's going on with those bands on the trees.
20:32:52:06 Are they trying to take more property to accomplish
20:32:56:07 what they are trying to accomplish as well?
20:32:58:21 It's right in my backyard, right across the fence.
20:33:05:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, may I ask the traffic
20:33:07:24 department, this road that we're looking at here on
20:33:12:01 this petition, not on Ellicott, but on north 43rd
20:33:16:13 Street, where is the ingress and egress coming out of
20:33:23:10 this property?
20:33:30:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ma'am, you can be seated.
20:33:32:03 Thank you.
20:33:32:12 >> Armani, transportation.
20:33:50:03 >> Looking at 43rd Street right here.
20:34:10:15 This would be the ingress and egress.
20:34:13:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What you're saying, all the ingress
20:34:17:12 and egress, no ingress and egress other than on 43rd
20:34:20:22 Street?
20:34:21:12 >> No, there isn't.
20:34:22:21 It would all be on 43rd Street.
20:34:24:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So there's no property.
20:34:26:24 What I'm trying to do is fine some ways of looking at
20:34:30:06 the lots on Ellicott that look like they are narrow and

20:34:34:18 long.
20:34:35:00 Except for one that looks like it's double lot and
20:34:39:13 long.
20:34:39:28 I believe that the young lady's house that is there.
20:34:45:18 >> Yeah, her house is located on Ellicott.
20:34:51:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Got to be 50 or 60 feet between the
20:34:54:09 property line of the church and the house?
20:34:56:21 >> Approximately, yeah.
20:35:00:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.
20:35:00:22 Thank you.
20:35:05:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is there a masonry wall between the
20:35:08:21 church and the residential property to the north?
20:35:13:12 >> No, there is.
20:35:15:00 The petitioner is providing an eight-foot buffer along
20:35:17:18 the side that the homeowner is --
20:35:20:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Like a vegetative buffer or fence?
20:35:23:09 >> Vegetative buffer.
20:35:24:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is there not required to be some
20:35:26:15 kind of wall?
20:35:28:00 >> A 10-foot buffer is required.
20:35:29:27 10-foot planting buffer is required, and they've asked
20:35:32:21 for a waiver down to eight foot along the northern and
20:35:35:16 southern properties.
20:35:36:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What are they planting along there?
20:35:39:03 >> The required buffer is evergreens and shrubs.

20:35:42:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What size are they putting in?
20:35:46:16 >> The standard size is I think what they are providing
20:35:49:00 on the site plan.
20:35:50:07 I would also like to clarify for the homeowner, the
20:35:56:13 area right -- she's the fourth property in here.
20:36:00:12 In this area here is going to be open space.
20:36:04:06 That's noted on the site plan.
20:36:06:15 The actual structure, the church structure is not going
20:36:08:25 to begin when you look at the site plan until over
20:36:11:13 here.
20:36:11:24 And there are -- they are going to be 21 feet off of
20:36:15:21 the property line, the actual church will be.
20:36:17:27 And I think she was referring to the height of the
20:36:20:28 structure will only be 35 feet, which is permitted in a
20:36:24:00 residential zoning district as well.
20:36:31:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could we have the petitioner put in
20:36:33:25 some kind of fence?
20:36:41:28 >> The petitioner can ask.
20:36:51:21 >> We would be willing to put in like a six-foot wood
20:36:54:21 fence to buffer the area between the church and her
20:36:57:09 house.
20:36:57:24 Would that be okay?
20:37:01:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's certainly better than nothing.
20:37:03:21 >> Well, the landscaping was all that was required.
20:37:06:06 We ask for the eight feet just to give us two more

20:37:09:03 parking spaces.
20:37:10:00 We could actually go down to the ten feet and then we
20:37:12:15 wouldn't need that waiver.
20:37:13:21 But just to be cooperative and move the project
20:37:17:00 forward, the petitioner, the owners said they would be
20:37:19:27 willing to put in a six-foot wood fence.
20:37:22:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A six-foot wood fence I think would
20:37:25:21 provide additional privacy to the neighbors to the
20:37:27:10 north.
20:37:27:21 That would be a good thing.
20:37:30:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
20:37:31:06 Anyone else want to speak?
20:37:35:06 Anyone else want to speak?
20:37:41:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone opposed to it?
20:37:44:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else want to address Council?
20:37:51:28 >> Eric Goldman, 4420 east Sligh Avenue, Tampa,
20:37:55:15 Florida, 33610.
20:37:57:15 And, yes, I have been sworn in.
20:38:02:15 I am the pastor of the church that we're talking about
20:38:06:15 building.
20:38:07:00 If you look at this map that they have here, over on
20:38:12:22 Louisiana, which would be the street to the south here,
20:38:16:27 I grew up in this area.
20:38:19:00 I played on this lot as a child.
20:38:22:18 Before William park was there, this is where I grew up.

20:38:25:13 I knew everybody in this neighborhood.
20:38:28:03 And so we've always played on this field.
20:38:32:10 Nothing on this field but snakes and rats.
20:38:35:16 Actually, we're making an improvement to the area.
20:38:38:12 We will put a fence in if it will make the neighbors
20:38:43:03 happy.
20:38:43:18 We don't want to come in and cause any problem.
20:38:46:13 What we want to do is make it a better community, make
20:38:49:15 it a community where we can have programs and things
20:38:53:03 available to the children in the area and just make it
20:38:55:15 a better place.
20:38:57:12 Historically, there have been some problems at William
20:39:00:15 park, especially in the evening and at night.
20:39:04:01 We want to make it a better place, not coming in and
20:39:07:12 making it a worse place, but make it a better place.
20:39:10:06 I think the church is going to actually add to the
20:39:13:01 community instead of taking away from the community,
20:39:15:21 but we would do what is necessary to alleviate any
20:39:18:25 concern that our neighbors might have.
20:39:23:24 I personally didn't want a fence because I felt like
20:39:26:12 the church should be open.
20:39:29:07 It's a neighborhood church where people can walk out of
20:39:32:01 your back door and walk to church and not have to
20:39:35:06 drive.
20:39:35:21 You don't have to be in the urban area to have the same

20:39:39:12 advantages of being able to walk to church.
20:39:41:21 So we wanted that field for our church.
20:39:45:03 We wanted it to look a part of the neighborhood, not be
20:39:48:13 behind a wall.
20:39:49:16 We wanted it to be a part of the neighborhood.
20:39:51:09 But if the neighbors say a fence, well, we'll put a
20:39:55:09 fence in.
20:39:55:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
20:39:56:16 Thank you, sir.
20:39:57:13 All right.
20:39:58:15 Anyone else?
20:39:59:15 Okay.
20:39:59:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
20:40:01:24 Second.
20:40:02:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
20:40:10:27 >> To clarify with your motion, that the petitioner
20:40:14:15 agree to add six-foot wood fence along the northern
20:40:17:21 boundary of the property and he also said that they
20:40:19:18 would add -- that they would reverse the fence so the
20:40:23:06 nice side would be facing --
20:40:25:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's the only way they can put it.
20:40:27:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Ordinance approving a special use permit
20:40:31:19 S-2, approving a place of religious assembly in RS-50
20:40:36:09 residential single-family.
20:40:37:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

20:40:38:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Zoning district in the general vicinity
20:40:39:21 of 4816-43rd Street North in the City of Tampa,
20:40:43:04 Florida, more particularly described in section one
20:40:45:12 hereof, approved waivers as set forth herein, providing
20:40:48:09 an effective date.
20:40:50:01 And other conditions that have been placed on the map.
20:40:58:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
20:40:58:22 Moved, seconded.
20:40:59:25 Seconded by Councilman Miranda.
20:41:01:21 All in favor, signify by aye.
20:41:03:21 Opposed, the same sign.
20:41:05:12 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Dingfelder being
20:41:07:19 absent and Caetano being absent at vote.
20:41:10:00 Second reading and adoption will be on January 8th at
20:41:15:21 9:30.
20:41:18:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I received a call from people in
20:41:22:25 Ybor City that the HCC is planning to build an addition
20:41:26:18 there and the jack hammers are rattling the Cuban club
20:41:31:21 and the el pasaje.
20:41:34:03 There's a meeting tomorrow with the HCC to discuss them
20:41:38:18 waiting -- waiting to get permission from the barrio
20:41:45:01 for their project and not negatively impacting our
20:41:47:21 historic structures.
20:41:48:12 I just wanted to share that with you-all.
20:41:51:24 It's a point of great concern seeing how Ybor is our

20:41:55:09 national landmark district.
20:41:56:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to receive and file.
20:41:58:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by aye.
20:42:00:21 Anything else to come before Council?
20:42:03:01 We stand adjourned.
20:42:04:16