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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, December 18, 2008
9:00 a.m. session

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[Sounding gavel]
09:05:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: City Council will now come to order.
09:05:22 The chair will yield to the honorable Linda Saul-Sena.
09:05:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Chairman Scott.
09:05:29 It is my great pleasure this morning to introduce
09:05:31 sister Ann daughter to lead us in the invocation.
09:05:34 Sister Ann is now working with Tampa prep, Academy
09:05:38 Prep, excuse me, which is a middle school in Ybor
09:05:43 City, and she's working specifically with kids who
09:05:46 have graduated from the school to support them in
09:05:48 their next phase of education.

09:05:50 She's been a leader in our community.
09:05:52 She was one of the founders of Frances' house.
09:05:56 It is my great pleasure to invite you to lead us in
09:05:58 prayer this morning.
09:05:59 Let us all stand and remain standing for the pledge of
09:06:02 allegiance.
09:06:05 >> Sister Ann: Let us take a moment of silence just
09:06:08 to become aware of God's presence in our midst, within
09:06:12 one another.
09:06:13 And we pray.
09:06:14 Blessed are you, O gracious and compassionate God.
09:06:18 Bless all those who are assembled here this morning.
09:06:21 And we ask for special prayers for our City Council
09:06:24 members.
09:06:25 Guide them with your spirit of peace and justice.
09:06:28 And give them your wisdom and vision.
09:06:32 With good sense of humor and humility.
09:06:36 Also give them that spirit of discernment, as they
09:06:39 make decisions this day that will affect the citizens
09:06:42 of Tampa.
09:06:44 And when pray this in God's holy name.
09:06:47 Amen.

09:06:49 (Pledge of Allegiance)
09:07:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We will now have roll call.
09:07:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:07:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:07:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:07:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:07:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:07:26 Council members, councilman Caetano will be arriving
09:07:29 late.
09:07:30 I have a memorandum from him.
09:07:31 With that, he will be arriving late.
09:07:34 And also councilman Miranda will have to leave at ten
09:07:38 to attend the Lowry Park Zoo but will return as soon
09:07:43 as that business is completed.
09:07:44 I want to submit this to the clerk.
09:07:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Just for record, about 9:15.
09:07:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:07:54 At this time I'll yield to the honorable Charlie
09:07:57 Miranda.
09:08:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Honorable chairman, honorable
09:08:14 members of Tampa City Council, I'm indeed honored and
09:08:17 it's my pleasure this morning to, on behalf of the

09:08:21 City of Tampa, City Council, to make a commendation
09:08:23 presentation to the Steinbrenner family and the New
09:08:28 York Yankees.
09:08:29 As we all know, for many years, they have been one of
09:08:36 the best, if not the best, giving to this community
09:08:41 day in and day out, no matter what the cause is, they
09:08:44 are front liners.
09:08:45 I can tell you that Mr. Steinbrenner has some sort of
09:08:50 a great personality.
09:08:52 Just earlier, I told Jennie Steinbrenner, and I said,
09:08:59 George, there's one thing you will never be able to
09:09:02 do.
09:09:02 He said, what is that?
09:09:04 I said, fire me.
09:09:05 He said, no, there's another thing I will never be
09:09:07 able to do.
09:09:08 I said, what's that?
09:09:09 He said "hire you."
09:09:12 So he's got a great personality and that reminded me
09:09:16 of this morning's prayer, with humor.
09:09:18 It is my pleasure again, and I am going to read this
09:09:20 because it means a lot to a lot of people in this

09:09:23 community.
09:09:23 It says, the Tampa City Council and the citizens of
09:09:26 the City of Tampa expresses sincere appreciation and
09:09:29 gratitude to the Steinbrenner family, and the New York
09:09:33 Yankees, for their outstanding and continuous 20-year
09:09:37 contribution to this community by providing
09:09:39 opportunities for at-risk children.
09:09:43 This just happened, I think, yesterday.
09:09:46 And for 20 years, there's over 4,000 kids that go to
09:09:51 the Tampa Bay performing arts, to do something that
09:09:56 more than likely they would never have had the chance
09:09:59 to do, and that's listen to a great orchestra, to
09:10:02 listen to the Wilson family, and to listen to the big
09:10:06 wrestler, and he's a great guy and he's got a big
09:10:09 heart.
09:10:10 And they have done this for 20 years, not only here,
09:10:15 but across the bay.
09:10:16 And the many other things they have done for this
09:10:19 community that no one ever knows.
09:10:22 And Jenny Steinbrenner Stindle, on behalf of Tampa
09:10:29 City Council it is my pleasure to present you this
09:10:31 commendation from the City of Tampa, Tampa City

09:10:34 Council.
09:10:34 Thank you so much.
09:10:40 [ Applause ]
09:10:41 >>> Thank you very much, everybody, on behalf of the
09:10:43 entire Steinbrenner family.
09:10:44 It means so much, being able to expose so many
09:10:50 children over the years to the wonderful Florida
09:10:52 orchestra, the ballet, and the Performing Arts Center.
09:10:56 It's just brought my family so much joy and been the
09:10:59 center of our holiday.
09:11:00 So thank you so much.
09:11:03 [ Applause ]
09:11:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you again.
09:11:16 At this time the honorable Gwen Miller.
09:11:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Good morning, council.
09:11:34 Again it's my pleasure to introduce the Officer of the
09:11:36 Month, D. Mullins.
09:11:43 I am going to turn it over to the chief.
09:11:45 >> Thank you for recognizing Officer of the Month
09:11:48 again.
09:11:48 This month we have selected Deanna muscle et cetera as
09:11:52 our officer of the months month.

09:11:54 This is going to be a little bit story about courage.
09:12:00 But not in the sense that you think of in the police
09:12:04 field.
09:12:04 About two years ago, Deanna was involved in a serious
09:12:08 traffic accident, right after she had used her police
09:12:11 car to block the road in the middle of the night for a
09:12:15 disabled individual who was having difficulty crossing
09:12:19 the street, and she escorted, got out and physically
09:12:24 escorted that individual across the road, and had just
09:12:29 returned to her police car when an intoxicated driver,
09:12:34 driving down the road, smashed into the front end of
09:12:37 her car.
09:12:39 It was a violent traffic crash that killed the other
09:12:43 driver, and sent Deanna to the hospital, and in fact
09:12:47 the initial report was that she was not going to
09:12:50 survive that accident.
09:12:54 Fortunately, that was some bad information, as you can
09:12:58 see here today.
09:12:59 But for two years, Deanna has been fighting the
09:13:05 injuries that she received there, and she's had
09:13:09 multiple operations.
09:13:12 She is still not at 100 percent.

09:13:17 During this time, she was going to come back to work.
09:13:22 The Tampa Police Department has a very lucrative
09:13:24 retirement for retirees and for people that are
09:13:27 disabled in the line of work.
09:13:29 She would have none of that.
09:13:30 She wants to come back and be a police officer.
09:13:35 For two years she struggled with these injuries.
09:13:37 And when we have an injured officer and they come
09:13:40 back, we try to be accommodating and find something to
09:13:43 do, and usually give them some assignment that has
09:13:47 value but is not really a job.
09:13:51 She started tracking the worst offenders, our juvenile
09:13:55 offenders and our worst adult offenders and then
09:13:59 relaying that information to the street officers about
09:14:04 who was in their area, if they had a burglary, she
09:14:07 knew all the burglars who worked there, suggested we
09:14:11 look at those three individuals because they worked
09:14:13 that area.
09:14:14 She just has such a great knowledge.
09:14:15 She took an assignment, a temporary assignment and has
09:14:19 turned it into a job that when she goes back to the
09:14:22 street I have all the faith in the world that she's go

09:14:25 back to the street one day.
09:14:26 We are going to probably have to hire somebody to take
09:14:28 that job because it's become so vital.
09:14:30 And that's what she's done.
09:14:31 And that's really what this is about today, the
09:14:35 courage that she's displayed over two years, fighting
09:14:38 to get back being a police officer and then the
09:14:42 quality of work that she has performed during that
09:14:44 time has been invaluable to our organization.
09:14:48 So because of that, Deanna Mullins is our December
09:14:52 2008 Officer of the Month.
09:15:08 >>GWEN MILLER: On behalf of the Tampa City Council I
09:15:11 will give you this commendation.
09:15:13 Now the private sector has things.
09:15:16 I am going to give you one from steakhouse.
09:15:21 >> I remember sending you a card two years ago and I'm
09:15:26 surprised you're here.
09:15:28 Welcome back.
09:15:32 >> Tom Wagner from the Florida Aquarium.
09:15:34 On behalf of Florida Aquarium, here's an annual pass
09:15:37 for you and three of your family members to the
09:15:39 Florida Aquarium.

09:15:40 Welcome back.
09:15:43 >> Tampa Lowry Park Zoo.
09:15:47 Thank you for your patience in this holiday season,
09:15:51 and it a remarkable story.
09:15:52 I get to do this quite often through the holiday but
09:15:56 your story is quite impressive.
09:15:58 Thank you.
09:16:00 >> Tampa PDA.
09:16:11 Two years before her accident, she got a lot more
09:16:14 attention from me after but she is one of my best
09:16:18 officers I have ever had.
09:16:21 I'm very happy she's being recognized for all her
09:16:24 achievements.
09:16:25 And at the beginning of the day, the Tampa Police
09:16:27 Department, PBA, and representing the vice-president,
09:16:35 a vendor is proud to give her a certificate for $100
09:16:39 for any of her Christmas shopping that she may be
09:16:41 doing.
09:16:42 So thank you very much.
09:16:49 >> Steve Stickley representing Stepp's towing service.
09:16:53 Deanna, on behalf of Jim and Judy Stepp, we would like
09:16:56 to present this statue to you and welcome you back.

09:17:01 I have been trying desperately to get a different
09:17:03 gender for the female officers.
09:17:06 And we would also like to give you this gift
09:17:09 certificate to Lee Roy Selmons.
09:17:12 Thank you very much.
09:17:15 >> Michelle Patty from Michelle Patty, personal injury
09:17:21 medical referral service.
09:17:22 And I began to pray when I saw the accident.
09:17:27 But I wanted to say there is not any monetary things
09:17:31 or never words to say thank you for your commitment,
09:17:34 your courage and your bravery.
09:17:36 Here's a little something to go to Macys and have you
09:17:39 a great day.
09:17:40 God bless you.
09:17:52 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I don't not what it is but they
09:17:53 said this is your goody bag.
09:17:56 So that goes up there so when you leave the podium you
09:17:58 will have something to put all these nice things in.
09:18:01 On behalf of Bryn Allen studios, we are providing you
09:18:04 with a photographic package so you and your family can
09:18:07 have your portraits taken.
09:18:08 On behalf of rigatonis, you have to wear the-shirt

09:18:13 when you go there.
09:18:14 You don't really have to.
09:18:15 But you can go work out in that and continue your
09:18:18 rehabilitation. Anyway, we are providing you with a
09:18:20 gift certificate so you can have lunch or dinner
09:18:23 there. On behalf of David Laxer and Bern's steakhouse
09:18:26 we are giving you a $100 gift certificate to enjoy
09:18:29 dinner at Bern's.
09:18:31 Thank you very much and congratulations.
09:18:35 [ Applause ]
09:18:37 >> This is my husband Eric.
09:18:39 I wanted to say thank you so much.
09:18:41 I love working for the Tampa Police Department.
09:18:44 I have come to realize that it's actually a big huge
09:18:46 family, not just a job.
09:18:49 Everybody has been so supportive and caring, to myself
09:18:56 and my family.
09:18:56 When I came back they gave me the job of tracking
09:18:59 juveniles and turned out to be a perfect job for me.
09:19:03 It makes me feel necessary and I love contributing.
09:19:06 It doesn't feel like a job when I come in every day to
09:19:08 a great group of people who turned out to be wonderful

09:19:11 friends.
09:19:12 And it's easy to give it your all when you are
09:19:16 recognized and appreciated.
09:19:17 So thank you very much.
09:19:25 >> George Howell with Holland and Knight and also the
09:19:28 Tampa Bay history center.
09:19:29 I wasn't aware this was happening this morning but I
09:19:32 offer you a one-year membership to the history center.
09:19:36 We open January 17th.
09:19:40 [ Applause ]
09:19:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:19:47 Have a great day and happy holiday to all of you.
09:19:57 We will now review the agenda.
09:19:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members
09:20:01 of City Council.
09:20:05 You have a rather lengthy agenda.
09:20:07 I will go through it and clear up some items.
09:20:10 With regard to items number 76 and number 77, there is
09:20:14 a request to substitute the settlement agreements, one
09:20:18 for the clear channel settlement, the other for the
09:20:22 CVS outdoor settlement.
09:20:24 You have before you, I believe, both substitutions.

09:20:26 One was previously given to you, the other was put on
09:20:29 your desk this morning.
09:20:33 There is also a request by Chip Fletcher, the city
09:20:35 attorney, for these items to be heard at 1:30 this
09:20:38 afternoon.
09:20:39 Mr. Fletcher can't be here.
09:20:43 He's going to the issues regarding the zoo.
09:20:45 And the request then is to accept the substitution and
09:20:47 move both items to be heard at 1:30 in the afternoon.
09:20:51 Again these are settlement negotiations.
09:20:53 These are resolutions before you.
09:20:55 They are not public hearings.
09:20:58 Therefore, unless council directs otherwise, the
09:21:00 public comment will take place during the agenda
09:21:04 public comment at the beginning of the meeting, or at
09:21:06 the end of the meeting per council's stated rules and
09:21:09 agenda.
09:21:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: (off microphone)
09:21:16 I rode up in the elevator with citizens here to speak
09:21:19 at nine.
09:21:19 I said that's not being heard till 1:30 and she said I
09:21:22 was told to be here at nine.

09:21:24 I think it's a little also confusing and I think when
09:21:27 we as council in deference to the administration
09:21:29 change the time when something is assumed to be heard
09:21:32 that we should allow the public who is here at nine,
09:21:36 of course, to speak but also somebody doesn't
09:21:38 understand the new sort of system, if they show up at
09:21:42 1:30, the public, I think we should afford them the
09:21:45 opportunity to speak then, because we are changing the
09:21:47 time of this in deference to a request that the public
09:21:51 may or may not know about, and may or may not
09:21:53 understand the rules.
09:21:54 So what I would like to do is, you know, certainly
09:21:57 move the things you just said and allow this to be
09:22:00 heard now but also if the public shows up at 1:30,
09:22:03 Mr. Chairman, I think we should allow them to speak
09:22:06 then also.
09:22:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We discussed this matter yesterday.
09:22:09 My intent was those that are here this morning
09:22:11 notified, it is not a public hearing.
09:22:14 However, I will allow this afternoon at least two
09:22:17 minutes of those persons to speak right before we take
09:22:20 action on that, which will give them 2 minutes 40

09:22:24 seconds according to your clock
09:22:31 If they cannot come back at 1:30, they are afforded
09:22:37 three minutes on public comment but they can't speak
09:22:39 both times.
09:22:40 They can't speak this morning at nine or show up at
09:22:43 1:30 and we will have to waive our rules to allow them
09:22:46 to speak for 2 minutes which is actually 2 minutes 40
09:22:50 seconds.
09:22:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
09:22:51 And that will be by unanimous consent, council?
09:22:55 >> Yes.
09:22:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Moving on to item 75.
09:22:57 There is a request by the city attorney that this item
09:22:59 be cost -- continued to January 8th, 2009, under
09:23:04 staff reports and unfinished business.
09:23:06 Item 80 is a request to provide additional time
09:23:13 regarding a charter amendment, also that that be
09:23:15 continued to January 8th, 2009, under staff
09:23:19 reports, unfinished business.
09:23:21 With regard to item number 78, there is a request by
09:23:25 senior assistant city attorney Julia Cole that this
09:23:28 item regarding changes to the code provisions be

09:23:30 continued to the workshop session on January 29th,
09:23:33 2009.
09:23:35 Council, with your indulgence, I would like to direct
09:23:40 you to the calendar on that date, January 29th,
09:23:44 2009, you presently have two presentations at 9:00,
09:23:49 then at 9:00 you have a workshop regarding contracting
09:23:53 issues with regard to local vendor preference.
09:23:58 Then, council, you notice it says unknown because it
09:24:00 appears council did not set the time for the workshop
09:24:03 to obtain an update on affordable housing and discuss
09:24:07 what the city is doing regarding homelessness and
09:24:09 housing so my suggestion, council, if you wish to
09:24:12 entertain this continuance to this workshop, A, that
09:24:14 you set the time for it, that you would like to hear
09:24:18 it, and, B, that you also specify on the calendar,
09:24:21 correct the calendar to say what time you wish to have
09:24:24 the workshop on the affordable housing.
09:24:26 So if you could make those two decisions when you move
09:24:30 this item.
09:24:31 If you wish to do that now, we can take it up now or
09:24:34 we can take it up later but obviously in order to
09:24:37 comply with that request to move it to a workshop, you

09:24:39 will need to set the time.
09:24:45 What's council's pleasure?
09:24:50 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a suggestion to free up because
09:24:51 it looks like we have too much.
09:24:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's a lot.
09:24:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I think the local vendor preferences,
09:24:59 we could move to a later date, maybe in February.
09:25:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you turn the page, council, to
09:25:12 February, you have three items scheduled, a 9:00,
09:25:20 10:00, 11:00.
09:25:22 Obviously they may not take that amount of time.
09:25:24 If you wish to move then the local vendor, if you
09:25:28 could just specify a time for that and do that by
09:25:31 motion.
09:25:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me, the 9:00 one seems to
09:25:36 tie in totally to local vendor because it's local
09:25:39 business versus global national companies.
09:25:41 So that appears to be on for 9:00 in February.
09:25:44 So.
09:25:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, we need more time for the
09:25:49 preferences.
09:25:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Could it be possible to combine the

09:26:00 two subjects, talk about both of them in the same time
09:26:03 frame?
09:26:05 >>MARY MULHERN: I think we could do that.
09:26:07 I'm not sure if one hour is going to be enough,
09:26:09 though.
09:26:09 So could we bump maybe the citations up to 10:30?
09:26:19 That at least gives us a little more time.
09:26:21 >> That would work.
09:26:25 >> Why don't you make a motion?
09:26:30 >> Well, I will only say I don't have an issue as long
09:26:33 as we are aware of the constraint that we are working
09:26:35 in, the time constraints.
09:26:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, the right-of-way, I'm not sure
09:26:47 if that --
09:26:49 And we have an evening meeting, too.
09:26:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I honestly believe the citations
09:26:55 regarding to illegal political signs is going to be a
09:26:58 ten minute discussion.
09:26:59 I don't see that -- and the other will be less than an
09:27:06 hour so I think Ms. Mulhern's suggestion to put those
09:27:09 both to local business at 9:00.
09:27:12 >>MARY MULHERN: If we have to move the citation

09:27:15 process anyway, why don't we make that at 11:30.
09:27:19 Then we can have a full two hours for the local
09:27:21 business if we need it.
09:27:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second the motion.
09:27:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the problem is you may not need
09:27:27 it, though, right?
09:27:30 If we don't need the full two hours?
09:27:33 >>MARY MULHERN: We can move fountain we need to.
09:27:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A council workshop is not necessarily
09:27:39 the same strict rules as regard to a public hearing.
09:27:43 People should understand that these times are subject
09:27:48 to change and subject to being moved around.
09:27:49 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I would rather move the citation
09:28:00 to 11:30 because we have plenty of time for notice for
09:28:03 that.
09:28:03 And that way we leave it and we need the full two
09:28:06 hours.
09:28:07 People show up.
09:28:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Put it at 11.
09:28:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, fine.
09:28:13 I move to add local business preference discussion
09:28:17 from January 29th to the February 26th, to be

09:28:22 combined with the 9:00 workshop discussion.
09:28:25 And to move the citation process discussion to 11 a.m.
09:28:30 on February 25th.
09:28:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I got it.
09:28:41 But I didn't understand, if you don't need the full
09:28:43 two hours and he would can't start the other one till
09:28:46 11, then where does that leave us in between?
09:28:48 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I think we can worry about that
09:28:55 on that day.
09:28:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do we have to be strict about the
09:28:58 time in the workshops again?
09:29:00 >> No.
09:29:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: But by the same token, I would
09:29:04 recommend you be sensitive to the fact that there
09:29:06 might be people who rely on knowing approximately when
09:29:08 those times are, that they may want to follow along or
09:29:13 be here.
09:29:14 And of course you do have the opportunity to take
09:29:15 comment afterwards per council's rules.
09:29:18 So my suggestion would be to ERR on the side of being
09:29:23 conservative, and Vermont earlier, and then get to it
09:29:26 later, than have it later.

09:29:28 And then have somebody come in early and be upset.
09:29:35 It's probably wiser to err on the side of setting
09:29:40 things early.
09:29:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Why can't we move to the 9 a.m. where
09:29:45 it is for the city local businesses, move it over to
09:29:47 the 9:00, because the presentations and commendations
09:29:52 won't take more than like ten minutes.
09:29:55 >> So moved.
09:29:57 >> Second.
09:29:59 Both local businesses at nine.
09:30:01 Keep the rest the same.
09:30:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Right.
09:30:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:30:04 The motion on the floor.
09:30:05 Moved and seconded.
09:30:07 All in favor?
09:30:08 Opposes?
09:30:08 Okay.
09:30:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We still haven't addressed 78 which
09:30:12 we'll put in January which would have been the local
09:30:14 business time slot and give a specific time slot for
09:30:17 homelessness.

09:30:18 That's my motion.
09:30:20 Specific time slot for homelessness could be at 9:30.
09:30:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Why can't we put it where we had --
09:30:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We are going to put the number 78
09:30:34 in the time slot for local business.
09:30:38 So moved.
09:30:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we are moving number 78 to 9:30?
09:30:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Correct.
09:30:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, 78 at county.
09:30:49 And sitting the date that says presently unknown for
09:30:52 homelessness and affordable housing for 9:30, setting
09:30:55 a time certain.
09:30:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Gotcha.
09:30:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Let me withdraw that.
09:30:59 Not setting a time certain, just setting a time.
09:31:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:31:04 (Motion carried).
09:31:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, item 84, for those who wish
09:31:10 to follow along on the agenda, V 08-144, public
09:31:15 hearing at 1:30 cannot be heard.
09:31:18 That's at 3202 East 7th Avenue.
09:31:21 Item 85, V-on the-04 cannot be heard at 1:30.

09:31:30 Item 92 is going to be a request to have that
09:31:33 rescheduled to January 22nd, but that cannot be taken
09:31:36 up till 1:30 in the afternoon.
09:31:39 Council, Mr. Chairman, it says on the agenda Mr.
09:31:45 Caetano. Did you mention that?
09:31:47 >> Yes, I already mentioned that.
09:31:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item 69 you have the receipt of a
09:31:51 memorandum.
09:31:52 Item 74 you have a receipt of a memorandum.
09:32:00 Item 82 is to correct the title of the agenda on
09:32:03 V-08-121.
09:32:05 It is in fact an appeal hearing on the decision of the
09:32:08 zoning administrator on an S-1, special use-1 on 2205
09:32:15 North Westshore Boulevard.
09:32:16 So that is a correction in the title of what is before
09:32:20 you at 1:30.
09:32:24 With regard to items removed from committee reports
09:32:26 and consent agenda for discussion you received a
09:32:29 memorandum from council member Dingfelder to remove 8,
09:32:32 9, 14 and 17 for council discussion.
09:32:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You can strike 8 and 9.
09:32:39 I'm good on those.

09:32:41 So that just leaves 14 and 17.
09:32:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you wish to have staff here at
09:32:47 10:30 or just removed for a separate vote?
09:32:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have spoken to staff on 14 and
09:32:55 17.
09:32:55 I imagine they will probably want to be here.
09:32:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So it's your desire for staff
09:33:03 reports.
09:33:03 Then finally with regard to consent item number 57,
09:33:06 there's been a request by the staff to remove that for
09:33:10 staff discussion at 10:30 under staff reports and
09:33:14 unfinished business.
09:33:15 I believe that concludes the addendum.
09:33:18 If council has any other changes, if not I ask that it
09:33:20 be approved as amended.
09:33:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
09:33:24 >> Second.
09:33:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
09:33:28 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:33:30 Opposes?
09:33:32 Okay, so moved.
09:33:38 Council has set aside time to allow public comment to

09:33:48 this council.
09:33:48 If you wish be heard at this point you may come
09:33:51 forward, state your name and address.
09:33:53 You have three minutes.
09:33:54 Keep in mind that the sign ordinance will be taken up
09:33:59 at 1:30.
09:34:02 If you speak this morning relative to that you will
09:34:05 not have an opportunity to speak this afternoon at
09:34:07 1:30.
09:34:08 >> Ethel Hammer, Englehart, Hammer and associates,
09:34:13 3001 North Rocky Point Drive, Tampa 33607.
09:34:16 I'm here this morning to speak on agenda item 76 and
09:34:21 77, which are the two settlement agreements.
09:34:27 And I am here with, shall I say, a number of different
09:34:29 hats.
09:34:30 I'm here because of my passion for the urban landscape
09:34:34 in Tampa.
09:34:36 So I'm here as an urban planner.
09:34:38 I'm also here representing citizens of scenic Florida
09:34:41 because I serve on their Board of Directors.
09:34:43 I am here because I am a concerned member of the City
09:34:48 of Tampa's sign ordinance committee.

09:34:52 I participated over a year in committee meetings for
09:34:55 the last round of sign ordinances that you passed.
09:34:58 And I'm also here with the experience of someone who
09:35:02 has participated in numerous sign litigation matters,
09:35:08 not only in the State of Florida representing local
09:35:10 governments but in the states of New Jersey and
09:35:12 Alabama.
09:35:15 My first concern is the fact that we are essentially
09:35:17 amending the sign ordinance de facto by adopting the
09:35:21 sign agreement.
09:35:23 There are many things in this ordinance that are not
09:35:25 permitted under the normal sign regulations, and so I
09:35:28 believe that the normal public and the normal public
09:35:32 hearing process is not being adhered to.
09:35:35 Just this morning when I walked in, I got last-minute
09:35:38 changes, which I really haven't had a chance to
09:35:41 digest, and all of the people who participated in some
09:35:45 of the meetings that we have had as citizens obviously
09:35:47 are not going to be privy to those changes.
09:35:51 My general comments first of all are that I am very
09:35:55 concerned about what this ordinance does in terms of
09:35:58 allowing the proliferation of digital billboards.

09:36:02 We find those to be not the preferred type of
09:36:06 billboard, because I believe that they are more
09:36:09 intrusive to the urban landscape, and certainly to the
09:36:14 residential areas in particular.
09:36:17 Speaking of the residential areas, I do want to say
09:36:20 that we did meet with the representatives of CBS and
09:36:26 they have made changes and agreed to some of the
09:36:28 things we suggested so we slowly want to congratulate
09:36:31 them for that.
09:36:32 Historic structures, the only protection for historic
09:36:34 structure if it is not a residence is that a billboard
09:36:38 cannot be on the same parcel.
09:36:39 So it can be on the immediately adjacent parcel.
09:36:42 That is too close.
09:36:44 The residential setback is now 300 feet as opposed to
09:36:47 200 feet, but it is restricted to a measurement on the
09:36:51 same side of the street.
09:36:54 An impact is an impact.
09:36:56 If it's appropriate to set a billboard 300 feet away
09:36:59 from a residential structure, it should be a radius,
09:37:02 the whole way around.
09:37:05 There is a section in section 12 of the draft

09:37:10 agreement that is what I consider to be an escape
09:37:14 clause for screening.
09:37:15 It allows an escape for something that is not
09:37:19 economically reasonable, whatever that is.
09:37:22 And when we ask the billboard people what their
09:37:25 interpretation of that was, they said they didn't
09:37:26 know.
09:37:27 So I think that's going to create enormous problems
09:37:30 down the road.
09:37:33 This agreement has no expiration date.
09:37:36 Please, City Council members, be careful what you do.
09:37:40 We are going to have to live with this for a very long
09:37:43 time.
09:37:44 Thank you.
09:37:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:37:49 >>> Good morning, council.
09:37:53 I'm Wolford Johnson, Longfellow Avenue, and I'm
09:37:57 president of T.H.A.N.
09:37:58 I'm here really to do two or three things.
09:38:02 But one is to speak on items 76 and 77.
09:38:10 Representatives from CBS did meet with T.H.A.N.
09:38:14 representatives this past week, and also I think there

09:38:18 was a telephone conversation from clear channel to
09:38:21 Randy Barron, our vice-president, and through these
09:38:25 discussions and so forth, I think there's been
09:38:28 improvement in this agreement from the standpoint that
09:38:31 some number of the concerns that we had from
09:38:35 neighborhoods has been addressed.
09:38:38 Everything is not perfect but it's a tremendous
09:38:41 improvement over what was presented to you a couple of
09:38:44 weeks ago.
09:38:44 So we thank them.
09:38:46 We thank legal for working with us and so forth to try
09:38:48 to get some of this resolved.
09:38:50 And we really at this point still have a few concerns.
09:38:57 One has to do with the digital change rate, as low as
09:39:04 six seconds for the digital signs, to allow them to
09:39:07 change.
09:39:10 That might be appropriate in my opinion on the inter
09:39:13 interstate, with cars zooming along 70 miles per hour
09:39:16 or something, but on non-interstate lanes and
09:39:19 highways, we think that digital change rate should be
09:39:21 increased.
09:39:25 Six second is pretty quick.

09:39:26 So we would like to see that changed.
09:39:33 Signs are not allowed on historic property, but they
09:39:36 can still be adjacent to one.
09:39:39 We know that there's some provisions for screening,
09:39:42 et cetera, but we still feel there should be some
09:39:44 separation distance involved with historic buildings
09:39:47 and historic property.
09:39:50 So that's another area that we would like to see some
09:39:54 changes or improvement.
09:40:03 I guess there are several other issues but the biggest
09:40:06 one is the impact it could have on the trees.
09:40:12 Under the agreement as we read it, it has provisions
09:40:14 in there that the signs company, if they are going to
09:40:17 do anything with our trees, because they are blocking
09:40:20 the visual effect of the sign, then they can apply for
09:40:27 a permit to have something done.
09:40:30 We just want to make certain that they aren't giving
09:40:33 carte blanche approval to do things like TECO does
09:40:40 where they put you in the trees.
09:40:41 We just want to make certain that doesn't happen.
09:40:45 So if they provide by the provisions of chapter 13,
09:40:50 then that will, I think, help to improve our trees,

09:40:52 and help protect our trees.
09:40:57 I was going to make some comments on 78 but you moved
09:41:03 that to January for public hearings, workshop.
09:41:05 So I will withhold those.
09:41:08 But I think that covers the key issues that we felt.
09:41:13 There is another issue has to do with the bank's
09:41:16 signs, and we still have a feeling if a sign is
09:41:20 removed by the billboard company for their own
09:41:23 purposes, business purposes, whatever, then our
09:41:28 opinion is they shouldn't go into the bank of science.
09:41:33 But if they do go in there, they should be limited to
09:41:36 maybe 180 days --
09:41:39 Okay, thank you, Mr. Johnson.
09:41:41 Thank you.
09:41:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Johnson?
09:41:46 I have a specific question.
09:41:47 You said that there was some concern that the
09:41:50 neighborhood has an address.
09:41:57 Would you tell us what they are?
09:41:59 >> Yes.
09:42:00 The original agreement was on the basis of 200 feet
09:42:03 from any residence.

09:42:04 They have increased that to 300 feet for standard
09:42:08 sign, and 500 feet for a digital sign.
09:42:11 So we feel that was an improvement.
09:42:15 Also under the original agreement there was an
09:42:19 agreement on the height and now they have put in there
09:42:20 a 65-foot Hite.
09:42:23 And our feeling is that's good, but in most cases we
09:42:30 would rather see a sign raised than have them effect
09:42:34 the trees, et cetera, to take out any trees.
09:42:36 Also on the digital swap rate under the old agreement
09:42:42 some people would interpret as being 3-for-2 the way
09:42:46 it was worded.
09:42:47 They have now amended that as 4-for-1 so we think
09:42:50 that's an improvement.
09:42:52 I think that was the major changes.
09:42:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The next speaker?
09:42:59 >>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:43:06 I am Bill Johnson, president of Citizens for Scenic
09:43:10 Florida, and I did speak to you last month and had
09:43:12 some additional comments.
09:43:14 The visual character of a community is a local choice,
09:43:18 and it is the heart of your discussion later today

09:43:21 when you will be considering these proposed
09:43:24 settlements.
09:43:27 The city of Houston, Texas, council on December
09:43:30 10th, reconfirmed and restated a total ban on
09:43:33 off-premise billboards and explicitly stated that
09:43:37 converting any existing billboard to electronic would
09:43:40 violate the no new billboard law in that city.
09:43:46 I would like to share with you three points in regard
09:43:49 to the proposed settlements.
09:43:53 Because of the unique and litigious nature of
09:43:57 controlling billboard, our organization recommends
09:44:00 cities obtain outside counsel with substantial
09:44:04 experience in billboard regulations when drafting
09:44:06 ordinances or agreements relating to off-premise
09:44:11 signs.
09:44:11 Many cases where cities have been unsuccessful, they
09:44:15 have not followed that path.
09:44:17 I am aware of the changes in the draft agreements that
09:44:22 were issued yesterday.
09:44:24 The changes though positive do not address the
09:44:27 fundamental unfairness of several aspects of the
09:44:30 agreement.

09:44:30 The 300-foot spacing from residential is still less
09:44:34 than one third of the 1,000-foot view zone contained
09:44:38 in Florida statute 479.106-6-D.
09:44:45 So it's still in the typical view zone of a billboard.
09:44:50 Two, the spacing to a PUD containing a residential
09:44:54 component is measured to the residential structure.
09:44:58 There's no provision if it's a planned residential
09:45:04 structure within the PUD.
09:45:06 The light allows billboards to be intensely led to
09:45:10 3-foot candles measured from the property line of any
09:45:14 residential property within 200 feet of the sign.
09:45:17 Your existing sign code limits business signs to
09:45:21 one-foot candle.
09:45:24 Your old billboard ordinance had the same one-foot
09:45:27 candle requirements.
09:45:29 As previously mentioned, digital signs can change
09:45:31 every six seconds.
09:45:34 On premise electronic signs can only change once every
09:45:38 five minutes according to your code.
09:45:42 This is true of billboard regulations in Tampa have
09:45:45 been marked with adopting something in an ordinance or
09:45:49 an agreement and then allowing something else to

09:45:51 happen.
09:45:51 To me the first line of defense to make sure that --
09:45:55 is to make sure that the language is clear and
09:45:58 unambiguous.
09:45:59 Some questions that remain, that I will be talking
09:46:03 with your city attorney did B later this morning, are
09:46:07 section 5, the introduction where the state
09:46:11 regulations appear to trump prohibitions along the
09:46:14 designated view corridors including Kennedy Boulevard.
09:46:19 Also section 7-B appears to allow upgrading an
09:46:25 existing billboard located closer than 200 feet to a
09:46:29 residential area.
09:46:31 Even to digital.
09:46:34 Third, the designated customer local use at the Sports
09:46:38 Authority is unique in this state and I think you need
09:46:45 to coordinate with the state on that.
09:46:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thanks very much.
09:46:48 >>MARY MULHERN: I have some questions.
09:46:49 Are you going to be here at 1:30?
09:46:52 Or is this the time to ask you?
09:46:55 >>> I prefer you ask now.
09:46:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me ask, how lengthy are those

09:47:01 questions?
09:47:02 Because we have the public that wants to speak.
09:47:04 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't think they are too long.
09:47:06 These are questions I had when I was reading over the
09:47:08 agreement.
09:47:09 And you brought them up.
09:47:11 The measurement of the 3-foot candles and 1-foot
09:47:16 candle.
09:47:17 And this might be a question for Julia Cole or for the
09:47:21 billboard people.
09:47:22 But is that a measurement -- explain to me again where
09:47:27 that is measured from.
09:47:28 >>> I think your staff should probably respond to
09:47:32 that.
09:47:32 I can tell you what I think it reads.
09:47:38 The ordinance for on-site signs talks about being
09:47:42 measured close to the signs where this one talks about
09:47:44 being measured at the property line, away from the
09:47:47 signs.
09:47:48 So the farther away you get, the less intense --
09:47:53 >>MARY MULHERN: Right, and that is for -- I guess this
09:47:56 sap question for Julia.

09:47:57 But maybe she could answer it now.
09:47:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I --
09:48:03 No, I don't want to get into the discussion of this.
09:48:07 I thought you had a specific question he could answer.
09:48:11 >>MARY MULHERN: The question will be later.
09:48:14 >>> Unfortunately I'm not able to be here at 1:30.
09:48:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:48:18 Next speaker, please.
09:48:26 >>> My name is Susan Lyon.
09:48:29 Normally, I come and I laugh and joke and tell you
09:48:33 funny stories.
09:48:35 This is a very serious issue.
09:48:38 We spent hours and hours and hours, an unbelievable
09:48:44 amount of time, poring over this.
09:48:49 We still have problems with it.
09:48:51 There's a basic change in the way that signs are going
09:48:55 to be handled.
09:48:55 The digital signs are coming up.
09:48:58 We have never had them before.
09:49:01 They are saying they want to do it six seconds in a
09:49:04 neighborhood.
09:49:06 They are going to change.

09:49:07 We never had that before because we never had signs.
09:49:12 We appreciate the fact that they change things, they
09:49:20 are working toward it, but it's not a done deal.
09:49:26 I'm sorry to say that because I know how hard
09:49:28 everybody has worked.
09:49:29 But there's still questions about what's going on.
09:49:36 And to me the most important thing is the trees lose.
09:49:42 The city trees are not protected.
09:49:48 And nobody has brought that up.
09:49:50 It's just kind of been glossed over.
09:49:54 Oh, well, they'll take care of the trees.
09:49:56 Well, I'm sorry to say, but when we had corporate
09:50:00 people do the trees, the trees lose.
09:50:03 This is a very serious issue.
09:50:06 It's a change in policy.
09:50:07 And I know they negotiated in good faith.
09:50:10 They are trying to do the best they can.
09:50:14 But this is still a long ways from being where we want
09:50:18 to be.
09:50:19 Our biggest concerns, all these signs are in the back.
09:50:25 We don't know where they took them out of, when they
09:50:28 are going to put them back.

09:50:31 They are restricted in a lot of ways but we
09:50:33 respectfully ask that you low at this again to be sure
09:50:37 that we are protected.
09:50:39 Thank you very much.
09:50:47 >>> My name is Joseph butler.
09:50:49 I live at 1013-7th Avenue in Ybor City, Tampa park
09:50:55 apartments.
09:50:56 I'm here today representing Joseph Becker.
09:51:04 My main concern, we have a serious problem of black
09:51:06 profiling in district 3.
09:51:08 Let's call it by its name.
09:51:10 I have a little experience in the district dealing
09:51:14 with the police department, and with youth, I'm very
09:51:17 adamant about stand up and be accountable.
09:51:22 Some of the judges if anybody gets in trouble I'll go
09:51:24 with them.
09:51:25 But make him stand up, whatever.
09:51:29 Our problem right now, we have three officers over
09:51:31 there.
09:51:31 Last night, for instance, this is about 1:00 in the
09:51:34 morning, young people going home.
09:51:37 Boom, they are surrounded with police cars, right?

09:51:40 Get out, searched.
09:51:41 I'm a Korean war veteran.
09:51:43 I can't walk out of my door and go to my bank without
09:51:48 being asked for my ID.
09:51:50 It's out of control.
09:51:53 On Monday night, there was a police dog sniffing a
09:52:01 door in the apartment.
09:52:02 Tampa PD, we have a lot of corporals and sergeants who
09:52:06 come down and do like this and they take off.
09:52:09 But everyone the park over there, the kids can't even
09:52:11 go in their park and play without being harassed by
09:52:15 three cops.
09:52:17 And can't this council say profiling is not the order
09:52:21 of Tampa?
09:52:24 Look into this.
09:52:24 That's all I'm asking.
09:52:26 Thank you.
09:52:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:52:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can City Council make a motion to
09:52:34 ask -- that does not happen on Davis Island.
09:52:42 And if it did, I would be down here.
09:52:45 It's not right that the police are treating people as

09:52:47 if they are guilty until they are proven innocent.
09:52:49 It's not right for people to not feel comfortable in
09:52:51 their neighborhood with their neighborhood park.
09:52:54 There has to be a balance.
09:52:56 And we need to address this.
09:53:02 >>GWEN MILLER: My motion is to have Chief Hogue to get
09:53:06 with -- is it district 3?
09:53:13 Who patrols Tampa Heights, and make sure they work out
09:53:16 the details of what's going on, the profiling, that
09:53:18 should not happen, and if that happens in other parts
09:53:24 of the city, I think that part should be treated the
09:53:26 same way, so I'm asking Chief Hogue to meet and see
09:53:31 that it stops immediately.
09:53:33 Thank you.
09:53:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, there's a motion.
09:53:39 I guess my concern is how we know that.
09:53:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And give us a report back by
09:53:47 January.
09:53:48 And specifically perhaps speak with Mr. Butler who can
09:53:51 address -- who can describe what the problems have
09:53:54 been.
09:53:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, may I make a suggestion?

09:53:57 Perhaps it would be appropriate -- you can ask the
09:54:00 chief obviously to speak to the constituent.
09:54:04 Council doesn't have any authority to direct the chief
09:54:06 to do that.
09:54:12 Ms. Miller is the chair of public safety.
09:54:15 Perhaps if you want to have the chief appear or write
09:54:18 a report, she could.
09:54:21 Could meet with the chair of public safety or just ask
09:54:23 the chief for a written report.
09:54:25 What was council's intention of --
09:54:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Need to make sure -- Mrs. Miller,
09:54:32 if you would be willing to meet with the chief and
09:54:35 report back at our January meeting.
09:54:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Whatever council wishes.
09:54:38 >>GWEN MILLER: And meet with the officers and discuss
09:54:42 it with them and find out what's going on.
09:54:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And a report back?
09:54:49 >> Yes.
09:54:51 To Mrs. Miller from the chief.
09:54:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like him to meet with Ms.
09:55:00 Miller but also report back to us, I think.
09:55:06 Written report.

09:55:07 >> Second.
09:55:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:55:10 (Motion carried).
09:55:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And also chat with Mr. Butler about
09:55:14 the specifics.
09:55:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:55:17 Anyone else from the public?
09:55:20 Thank you very much.
09:55:22 Anyone here to request a reconsideration on a
09:55:27 legislative matter?
09:55:30 Okay.
09:55:32 Council, let's take up item number 70.
09:55:39 Item 70 dealing with the renaming of the St. Pete
09:55:41 Times Forum street ice palace, Channelside Drive.
09:55:45 This is a public hearing, so we will need to open it
09:55:47 and all witnesses need to be sworn.
09:55:49 So I want to ask if you will be addressing council, to
09:55:52 stand and be sworn at this time.
09:55:54 If you want to be addressing council, will you please
09:55:57 stand and be sworn.
09:56:09 No one is going to be addressing council.
09:56:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move item 70.

09:56:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to open it.
09:56:16 >>
09:56:17 (Motion carried).
09:56:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me speak to item 70.
09:56:20 We received a call from I believe Mr. Shawn
09:56:29 Harrison -- Ron Pierce and someone else.
09:56:34 We received a call.
09:56:36 The concern was they were not aware of this change.
09:56:38 No one contacted them.
09:56:39 They were not notified.
09:56:41 They support the change, but they felt that they
09:56:44 should have been contacted and been in the loop during
09:56:46 the discussion of this.
09:56:47 So I would suggest, Mr. Howe, that you may want to
09:56:52 give them a call and have some discussion with them
09:56:54 about that, because they said they didn't have any
09:56:58 knowledge about it.
09:56:59 They kind of want to make sure the concern was on the
09:57:02 record relative to this issue.
09:57:09 >>> We spoke yesterday.
09:57:11 So the conversation has taken place.
09:57:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

09:57:13 Yes.
09:57:14 Dunk.
09:57:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just as a follow yip, I did speak
09:57:18 with the relations person yesterday and the day
09:57:22 before, expressed the same concern, and I think --
09:57:28 >> Shaun Henry.
09:57:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: He expressed the same concern about
09:57:32 lack of communication, and I apologized on behalf of
09:57:35 the city.
09:57:36 I thought everybody up and down that street knew.
09:57:39 But not that there's that many folks but there's three
09:57:43 or four.
09:57:43 But the other thing, he said they had been talking to
09:57:47 staff yesterday about the possibility of some sort of
09:57:49 dual signing, dual signage where there could still be
09:57:54 some recognition.
09:57:55 I don't know how they accomplished that.
09:57:56 I think that we do that in Ybor a little bit.
09:57:59 There's some dual signage there.
09:58:01 So if the staff can accomplish that, you know,
09:58:04 administratively, I think that would be fine.
09:58:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.

09:58:08 Dual signs.
09:58:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In the mean Tim I'll move this.
09:58:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you want to read the ordinance?
09:58:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We don't read ordinances.
09:58:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 70.
09:58:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It has to be voted and recorded.
09:58:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My pleasure.
09:58:28 An ordinance presented for second reading and
09:58:30 adoption, an ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida
09:58:33 rescinding ordinance number 2004-5 adopted on January
09:58:36 8, 2004, which renamed that certain roadway known as
09:58:41 ice palace drive to St. Pete Times Forum drive
09:58:45 providing for renaming and designating that section
09:58:49 roadway known as St. Pete Times Forum drive which runs
09:58:53 in an easterly direction from Franklin Street in
09:58:57 Channelside Drive within the City of Tampa,
09:59:00 Hillsborough County, Florida, so that will here ever
09:59:03 be known as old water street, approving expenditure of
09:59:06 funds in the amount of $1181.60 for associated costs,
09:59:11 providing an effective date.
09:59:14 >> Second.
09:59:14 (Motion carried).

09:59:15 >> I would like to congratulate the history center and
09:59:17 invite you to come down and remind us again when you
09:59:20 are opening so we can make all the citizens aware of
09:59:23 it.
09:59:25 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda and Caetano
09:59:27 being absent at vote.
09:59:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, we now two to committee
09:59:31 reports.
09:59:32 Councilwoman Miller on public safety.
09:59:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Move resolutions 2 and 3.
09:59:37 >> Second.
09:59:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
09:59:41 (Motion carried)
09:59:43 Councilwoman Linda Saul-Sena, parks and recreation.
09:59:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move resolutions 4,
09:59:51 5 and 6.
09:59:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
09:59:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:59:58 Public works, Mr. Charlie Miranda is not here.
10:00:01 Councilman Dingfelder.
10:00:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can I speak for a moment on number
10:00:05 5?

10:00:09 Mr. Mike Flynn honor passed away recently was a real
10:00:12 conservationist and community activist in the Ballast
10:00:14 Point neighborhood, and naming and oyster dome
10:00:20 monument in his honor and I think that's marvelous.
10:00:24 And that we are honoring him.
10:00:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
10:00:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm sure council seconds that, we
10:00:31 miss Mike Flynn and we send his best to his wife Sally
10:00:35 and his family.
10:00:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Are you here for that?
10:00:40 Come on up and be recognized.
10:00:43 Please introduce yourself.
10:00:45 >>> We did not sign up to speak because of the agenda.
10:00:48 But I'm Jimmy Steinbridge.
10:00:53 >> I'm Don Roberts, president of the local chapter.
10:00:57 >> Tell us what CCA is.
10:00:58 >> Conservation association.
10:01:01 And basically, we are made up of volunteers of
10:01:08 anglers, and there's about 10,000 of us in the State
10:01:10 of Florida.
10:01:11 Mike Flynn, a great friend of ours and supporter for
10:01:15 many years, both CCA and Tampa Bay watch.

10:01:19 As many of you know the Flynn family has lived in
10:01:22 South Tampa for generations.
10:01:25 In fact the whole family has been committed to that.
10:01:27 His purpose regarding the oyster dome was he was very
10:01:32 instrumental in getting the permits, and the help and
10:01:35 support we needed, getting the domes delivered, all
10:01:39 around Bayshore, and also MacDill Air Force Base.
10:01:45 And we felt like Mike Flynn certainly deserved this
10:01:49 monument and his recognition.
10:01:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for joining us.
10:01:54 >>> We thank the City Council for approving this.
10:01:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thanks very much.
10:01:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The oyster domes are a wonderful
10:02:01 thing.
10:02:01 I went out there helping Mike and these guys put them
10:02:03 out one day, and they are heavy.
10:02:06 They felt like a few hundred pounds each.
10:02:09 So you put them out there, and then after awhile the
10:02:12 barnacles started and the sea grasses come back and
10:02:15 the fish and the critters have a place to hide and
10:02:18 thrive.
10:02:18 So keep up the good work, gentlemen.

10:02:20 Thank you.
10:02:24 With regard to public works on behalf of Charlie
10:02:26 Miranda, I'll move, with the exceptions of items 14
10:02:29 and 17, which we will hear in a little bit, I move 7
10:02:33 through 18.
10:02:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:02:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by Councilwoman
10:02:47 Saul-Sena except for 14 and 17.
10:02:49 (Motion carried)
10:02:51 Finance Committee, Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:02:54 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items number 19, 20 and 21.
10:02:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second but I have a comment.
10:03:02 On item 20, we are looking at Westshore being a
10:03:06 special assessment district.
10:03:08 And I have a report on this from our local roadway
10:03:15 committee of the MCO yesterday, on the Westshore plan
10:03:19 which I think is going to be coming before council, a
10:03:22 great report, wonderful plan.
10:03:23 We need money to implement it and some of this
10:03:25 Westshore special assessment money is going to go
10:03:28 toward that.
10:03:28 But at the time I discussed the fact that City Council

10:03:32 has, I thought, said that if somebody has to pay a
10:03:35 transportation impact fee in the Westshore area that
10:03:37 up to 50% of it could be designated for use on either
10:03:41 pedestrian improvements, transit improvements or
10:03:44 bicycle improvements.
10:03:45 And our transportation representative at the meeting
10:03:48 said, no, it has never somehow made its way from our
10:03:52 initiative to legal to actually implement this.
10:03:56 And so I was very concerned.
10:03:58 So what I would like to do is for ask for a staff
10:04:01 report in person at our January meeting on what
10:04:05 council has to do to make sure that a directive like
10:04:10 that is implemented.
10:04:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second with a comment.
10:04:17 Go ahead.
10:04:19 Go ahead.
10:04:19 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wondered if we should make your
10:04:22 motion after.
10:04:23 >> Oh, I'm sorry, yes.
10:04:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion on the floor.
10:04:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But I also found yesterday that I
10:04:32 had thought that the City Council had said whenever we

10:04:34 had the opportunity when we are doing a restriping, a
10:04:39 resurfacing project in the city, to create bicycle
10:04:42 lanes.
10:04:43 It turns out that the transportation department was
10:04:46 using as their guide the agreement, the trail bike
10:04:52 lane program, not for computer uses and as a result of
10:04:56 that, that's why they have not been striping anything
10:04:59 on Himes Avenue which I brought up two weeks ago and
10:05:01 it was a miscommunication between the transportation
10:05:03 planners and the transportation implementers.
10:05:06 And I feel as if there are times when council creates
10:05:11 policy, and it somehow isn't followed through with.
10:05:15 And we need to work closely with the administration to
10:05:19 improve the communication.
10:05:19 So perhaps after we vote on this we can work on that,
10:05:22 also.
10:05:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:05:25 Did we pass the committee reports?
10:05:27 There's a motion and second.
10:05:29 All in favor?
10:05:30 Opposed same sign?
10:05:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The first motion would be to hear

10:05:37 back from the legal department about the Westshore
10:05:41 transportation dollars, but I assumed that we had
10:05:43 voted to direct up to 50% of them toward pedestrian,
10:05:48 bicycle and --
10:05:51 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll second that, but a question.
10:05:54 I thought we voted on using impact fees in general in
10:06:01 the city that we could use up to 50%.
10:06:04 Tell me what the distinction between that is and the
10:06:06 Westshore.
10:06:13 Impact fee --
10:06:15 >> Haven't done that --
10:06:17 >> I thought we had done it.
10:06:18 >> With transit and pedestrian improvement?
10:06:21 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
10:06:22 The distinction is these are generated because of AP
10:06:25 impact that your project has on a particular area.
10:06:28 These are special assessments.
10:06:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, this is different.
10:06:31 >>SAL TERRITO: I understand.
10:06:32 I thought you were asking what the distinction was.
10:06:34 Maybe I'm missing the point.
10:06:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You misunderstood.

10:06:37 I was talking about impact fees.
10:06:38 >> Okay, she was asking the distinction.
10:06:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern had a question
10:06:43 that was different, though.
10:06:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Actually, thank you, because that
10:06:49 makes the clarification, what we are talking about is
10:06:51 the Westshore special assessment.
10:06:55 And we did pass that?
10:06:56 >>SAL TERRITO: That I don't know.
10:06:57 But I'm saying there was a distinction between the
10:06:59 two.
10:07:00 That's all I was trying to clarify.
10:07:02 >>MARY MULHERN: Maybe we need a report back on both
10:07:04 those things.
10:07:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excellent.
10:07:08 So we need a clarification on the Westshore special
10:07:11 assessment dollars going to the pedestrian
10:07:13 improvements, which I believe have already happened,
10:07:17 and spending some of that on pedestrianway, and
10:07:21 city-wide and Westshore transportation impact fee.
10:07:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, what was the date that you
10:07:26 wanted that?

10:07:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The first meeting in January.
10:07:29 January 8th.
10:07:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm not clear exactly with the
10:07:32 holiday what the deadline is.
10:07:34 I don't know if that would be enough time for that.
10:07:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Make it the second meeting in
10:07:39 January.
10:07:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 22nd?
10:07:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The 22nd.
10:07:44 I would like staff to appear and explain.
10:07:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:07:48 (Motion carried).
10:07:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: One more thing.
10:07:52 The bikeways report.
10:07:54 Now how on a computer there's a default where it
10:07:57 always says something unless you tell it not to?
10:07:59 I would like to move that the transportation report to
10:08:02 us on the 22nd on what action -- that council would
10:08:07 need to take, so that when the opportunity arises,
10:08:11 when we are resurfacing roads and restriping them,
10:08:15 that they would always put in bike lanes to support
10:08:20 commuters unless there's an excellent reason why not,

10:08:23 rather than having to take a special action of council
10:08:25 to ask them to.
10:08:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
10:08:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I'll second that, but let me
10:08:32 throw a suggestion out to you, Linda.
10:08:35 There's no way to leave a legacy unless you dot by
10:08:39 ordinance.
10:08:39 There just isn't.
10:08:40 You can say, well, it's our policy, after two or three
10:08:46 years from now when perhaps many of us are no longer
10:08:49 sitting here, the policies, it's not codified.
10:08:52 Even if it is, it doesn't get redone.
10:08:56 So I looked at your memo, and I think it's great and I
10:08:59 have a lot of great ideas you have been talking about
10:09:01 for a long time but if you don't find a place in the
10:09:05 ordinance, then it not worth the paper it's written
10:09:06 on.
10:09:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You're completely correct.
10:09:09 I would like to amend my motion to ask legal, the
10:09:12 legal department, to codify that bikeways are to be
10:09:17 implemented as an ordinance, whenever we resurface or
10:09:25 restripe roads, unless there's a critical reason why

10:09:31 we cannot.
10:09:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What you might want to do is look
10:09:35 at your memo and make sort of a comprehensive
10:09:38 bike-pedestrian ordinance because you have a lot of
10:09:41 good ideas in here that could all be codified into a
10:09:45 bike-pedestrian ordinance that would then give
10:09:49 direction out to staff.
10:09:50 For example, bike racks.
10:09:52 If we don't have bike racks in the ordinance then we
10:09:55 need to put them in the ordinance, et cetera,
10:09:57 et cetera.
10:09:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'll take that suggestion and
10:10:01 refine it and bring it back to council.
10:10:03 But I was just shocked because I thought this was the
10:10:06 way we did business.
10:10:07 And I was very upset that it's not.
10:10:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, you already made a motion.
10:10:18 The motion was made by Dingfelder and Saul-Sena that
10:10:21 the administration be requested to appear before
10:10:22 council on January 22nd, 2009 under staff reports, and
10:10:27 provide a report on the feasibility and cost of
10:10:29 installing bike lanes along Platt Street, Soho,

10:10:32 downtown.
10:10:33 You already made a motion.
10:10:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay, that's a specific motion for
10:10:37 a specific road to get a report back and that's nice.
10:10:39 But way want is a more global policy which I think you
10:10:44 are correct, Mr. Dingfelder would be more effective
10:10:48 done in an ordinance but, Mr. Chairman, I will hold
10:10:50 off on that, a series of issues that I feel we need to
10:10:54 address and bring that back to City Council.
10:10:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So you are pulling your motion.
10:11:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm pulling my second motion.
10:11:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You will in January be discussing
10:11:04 your comprehensive plan.
10:11:07 As a result of implementing the comprehensive plan, a
10:11:10 lot of code changes need to be effectuated in order to
10:11:13 implement the desired --
10:11:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:11:19 And Mrs. Miller is here to address technical manuals
10:11:21 which I believe you are working on.
10:11:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's move the rest of our agenda.
10:11:25 We can deal with that.
10:11:30 I thank the clerk for being alert.

10:11:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I wasn't trying to derail you,
10:11:37 Linda, by any means.
10:11:40 >>MARY MULHERN: Trying to point out that's what I
10:11:43 tried to do.
10:11:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano -- Councilwoman
10:11:53 Saul-Sena on the building and zoning committee.
10:11:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move resolutions 22
10:12:09 through 56 and bring everyone's attention to item 26,
10:12:13 which is the money for the city from the FDOT
10:12:22 interstate highway expansion trust fund.
10:12:26 Money that again we the city are receiving as a result
10:12:28 of FDOT investment in these historic houses that are
10:12:32 being moved, and we have this money to dedicate to
10:12:36 improving historic structures.
10:12:37 That's 26 and 27.
10:12:38 So actually these are loans being made from the money
10:12:42 that we receive from that.
10:12:43 This is one of the best things that's happened in
10:12:46 years and it's great that we have these dollars to
10:12:48 make available to residents.
10:12:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I have a motion, 22 through 26.
10:12:54 Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.

10:12:56 (Motion carried)
10:13:04 Moved to staff reports at 10:30.
10:13:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move 58 through 64.
10:13:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:13:12 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:13:14 Opposes same sign.
10:13:17 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to set public hearings for
10:13:18 item 65 through 68.
10:13:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:13:21 (Motion carried)
10:13:31 Item 9.
10:13:32 Second public hearing.
10:13:34 Motion to open?
10:13:35 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
10:13:36 >> Second.
10:13:36 (Motion carried).
10:13:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 69.
10:13:46 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Assistant city attorney.
10:13:49 This second reading was continued from two weeks ago.
10:13:58 At that time Mr. Michelini addressed the council and
10:14:00 presented a list of several issues that he thought
10:14:04 needed to be, I guess, maybe he just wanted to raise

10:14:07 regarding this.
10:14:08 I have had an opportunity to go over those issues,
10:14:13 wanted to make a few of the following comments.
10:14:18 In six of those nine issues, the language that was, I
10:14:24 guess, being complained about or concerned was
10:14:26 actually existing language that's already in chapter
10:14:29 9, and it mirrors the language of the Florida statutes
10:14:33 chapter 162.
10:14:37 I think a large part of the overall concern by Mr.
10:14:40 Michelini is about the process in front of a board at
10:14:43 the hearing masters, and that it's intimidating.
10:14:46 I just want to again reiterate some things that were
10:14:49 brought up last time in looking at the process.
10:14:53 There's a significant period of time that elapses from
10:14:56 the time a property owner is first notified of a
10:14:59 violation, until the time they appear in front of a
10:15:04 hearing master.
10:15:05 And I think to kind of give you an idea on that, there
10:15:10 is a hearing master, hearing yesterday, and at that,
10:15:14 there were several people that appeared for the first
10:15:20 time in front of a hearing master.
10:15:22 What I would like to tell you is the dates from the

10:15:26 time that case was first opened and people were
10:15:29 notified of the violation, for example, in the very
10:15:31 first case where a person appeared for the first time,
10:15:35 that case was actually opened and the person was
10:15:38 notified in November 2007.
10:15:45 The next case was open January 2008.
10:15:47 The next one February 2008.
10:15:49 The next one, March of 2008.
10:15:51 If I go to the last ones which would be the most
10:15:55 recent cases, that would have been opened most
10:16:00 recently, the last one was August of 2008.
10:16:03 So that gives you an idea that anywhere from a year to
10:16:07 six months has elapsed before those people show up in
10:16:10 front of the board, or a hearing master for the first
10:16:13 thing.
10:16:17 Also keep in mind that in that time that a person
10:16:21 actually clears up the violations, they don't have to
10:16:23 appear at all.
10:16:25 Also on that same agenda, there were 122 case where is
10:16:33 the people came into compliance and did not appear at
10:16:36 all.
10:16:37 And I think that's important to keep in mind.

10:16:38 It isn't like people are yanked in right away and
10:16:43 thrown in front of the board.
10:16:44 They work with people.
10:16:45 The property owners work with the code inspectors.
10:16:48 That time gets extended before they have to appear in
10:16:51 front of the hearing master.
10:16:54 And then I think the last thing, and really the most
10:16:56 important thing I want to hit on that is when the
10:16:58 property owners do finally appear, the hearing masters
10:17:02 and code enforcement officers, really are up there and
10:17:07 do everything they can to keep that process from being
10:17:09 an intimidating process.
10:17:11 They work with people.
10:17:13 Another issue that was brought up is about
10:17:15 interpreters, and the city does provide an interpreter
10:17:17 for the Spanish-speaking people.
10:17:23 One area that I think needs to be specifically
10:17:25 addressed, a concern that was brought up, is regarding
10:17:28 the burden of proof when it comes in front of the
10:17:32 hearing masters and Code Enforcement Board.
10:17:35 The existing language and the language that's in the
10:17:37 proposed changes is unchanged.

10:17:40 The burden of proof is with the city to show by the
10:17:43 greater weight of the evidence that a code violation
10:17:46 exists, and the alleged violator committed or was
10:17:50 responsible for the violation.
10:17:52 That's standard.
10:17:53 That's always there.
10:17:55 What has been added is that if the alleged violator
10:17:58 raises a defense to the violation, then it's the
10:18:01 burden of the person raising the defense to prove that
10:18:04 defense by the greater weight of the evidence.
10:18:07 That's standard jurisprudence.
10:18:09 I'll give you an example of what that is.
10:18:13 If the code inspectors find violations, they might
10:18:17 have to do maintenance on a rental property, the
10:18:19 property owner may raise, come in and say, that's not
10:18:22 my responsibility, that's the tenant's responsibility.
10:18:25 What we are doing is putting the burden on that
10:18:26 landlord to show that here's the lease that shows
10:18:30 that's the tenant's responsibility.
10:18:32 Examples like that, where they are going to have to
10:18:34 show that that is actually true.
10:18:40 I think probably the largest issue raised by Mr.

10:18:43 Michelini regards the city providing legal
10:18:45 representative to the alleged violaters.
10:18:48 And this what I would like to say if you wish to
10:18:52 discuss that more, I would really suggest this
10:18:54 discussion take place separate from the movement of
10:18:57 this ordinance forward, as I'm sure you have all read
10:19:01 this ordinance, you can see that it's really a
10:19:03 housekeeping type of ordinance.
10:19:05 There are two provisions that are new that I think are
10:19:08 important that need to get in there, one being about
10:19:10 the jurisdiction in codifying that it's 90 days or up
10:19:15 to 100 days if the board wants to keep that
10:19:17 jurisdiction, and the other additional setting aside
10:19:21 of orders in the case where people I think bankruptcy,
10:19:24 or serving in military active duty in the military.
10:19:29 Likewise, there's been some discussion with regard to
10:19:34 providing assistance to people with financial
10:19:36 hardships.
10:19:37 And again I would suggest that if we want to discuss
10:19:42 that more, that that discussion take place apart from
10:19:45 moving this ordinance forward.
10:19:47 Neither of those issues affect what's in this

10:19:51 ordinance.
10:19:53 Even if we had that discussion now, we would still be
10:19:55 proposing the same changes that are in here.
10:20:03 >>GWEN MILLER: How do you say hardship cases, move it
10:20:09 up?
10:20:10 >>ERNEST MUELLER: I'm suggesting if you want to
10:20:12 discuss that more and go more in-depth, we do that
10:20:14 separately, because there's budgetary issues that need
10:20:17 to be considered.
10:20:19 How are we going to determine the hardship?
10:20:21 When will that be done?
10:20:22 Those types of that I think need to be kind of vetted
10:20:26 out a bit, and really won't affect the changes we are
10:20:30 trying to do.
10:20:31 >>GWEN MILLER: But if we pass the ordinance, how will
10:20:34 you deal with it?
10:20:35 If it not dealt with there.
10:20:36 >>ERNEST MUELLER: If I'm understanding you, the
10:20:41 changes here are not addressing that.
10:20:48 >> I.
10:20:50 >>SAL TERRITO: It's not going to be addressed at this
10:20:53 particular time.

10:20:53 The hardship will come up as a separate item for to
10:20:56 you discuss how you will handle that.
10:20:59 This will not be covered by these changes.
10:21:00 As you get these changes passed and then address the
10:21:03 hardship as a separate matter, and get that vetted
10:21:05 completely, I think that's what he's suggesting.
10:21:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, it is my understanding, and Ms.
10:21:11 Miller may want to speak to, this and that is we
10:21:13 talked about a diversion program, and that does
10:21:15 existing there through housing.
10:21:16 The issue is code enforcement and how to communicate,
10:21:20 and we talk about a mechanism from Mrs. Miller and
10:21:24 address that, so there is communication relative to
10:21:27 that.
10:21:27 Do you want to speak to that?
10:21:29 >>CINDY MILLER: Director of Growth Management
10:21:32 Development Services.
10:21:33 It has been talked about in your previous discussion
10:21:36 about whether the city had a diversion program.
10:21:39 I have submitted a memo for the record that basically
10:21:43 outlines that procedure.
10:21:46 And it -- basically the code enforcement department

10:21:49 refers to Sharon West division, housing community
10:21:53 development division, if they identified particularly
10:21:55 homesteaded property, that the folks appear to have a
10:21:58 hardship, lack of funds, in order to make or correct
10:22:02 the repairs that are necessary.
10:22:03 I won't go through each of the steps, but basically we
10:22:06 refer a number of these homes to the center for women.
10:22:08 We do have other volunteers that might do, say,
10:22:14 accumulation and landscaping, things of that nature.
10:22:17 And there is also somewhere at the end of the memo 59
10:22:21 homeowners that were referred from code enforcement to
10:22:24 the diversion program.
10:22:25 So we do have an active diversion program.
10:22:28 We try to work through the program with homeowners.
10:22:32 Sometimes we are able to be of assistance.
10:22:34 Sometimes we are not.
10:22:35 But there is an active communication between code
10:22:37 enforcement and our division of housing community
10:22:39 development.
10:22:40 So if there are any questions I will be glad to answer
10:22:44 them.
10:22:44 And Sharon West is also here to address that.

10:22:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
10:22:51 Any questions by council?
10:22:53 This is a public hearing.
10:22:54 Anyone that wishes to address, come forward.
10:22:56 Mr. Michelini?
10:22:57 >>STEVE MICHELINI: As you may recall, I didn't bring
10:23:01 this up to you as a client issue.
10:23:04 These are issues regarding people who don't have the
10:23:07 wherewithal to request assistance from someone else.
10:23:11 And this doesn't have anything to do with how long a
10:23:14 case is in the processor in the system.
10:23:16 It has to do with the people that are appearing before
10:23:19 the code hearing master, and then subsequently
10:23:22 appearing before the Code Enforcement Board.
10:23:26 Typically what happens is that somebody comes in here
10:23:29 and there is an attorney that represents the
10:23:31 inspectors, throws an attorney that remits the board,
10:23:34 and there is no one that is there available through an
10:23:39 individual that has their rights at stake and has
10:23:41 their representation in mind.
10:23:44 And they are frequently told, just comply, or just
10:23:47 plead guilty, we'll give you plenty of time to comply.

10:23:49 That is a standard comment that's made to people that
10:23:53 appear the code hearing master.
10:23:55 Just plead guilty, get it off the system, so it comes
10:24:00 up as a number, and that's why they are telling you
10:24:02 they have these huge numbers of compliance, things
10:24:04 that never come to the board, or the fines recur and
10:24:09 they keep going on and on and on.
10:24:11 Some fines have gone up to 40, 50, $100,000 on these
10:24:15 properties.
10:24:15 And these people do not know what to do.
10:24:18 When they appear in front of the Code Enforcement
10:24:19 Board, there is a two-week or one-week span.
10:24:22 One of the things that I talked about -- and I've
10:24:25 talked to some of the Code Enforcement Board members.
10:24:28 Would they appreciate somebody sitting outside of that
10:24:32 door so that when somebody comes up here, and they
10:24:35 don't understand what's going on, or they are cited
10:24:38 with some violation of some kind, that there's
10:24:41 somebody there that says, okay, I will help you,
10:24:45 either it's a zoning issue or a construction issue or
10:24:47 a financial issue.
10:24:48 That coordination and that point of contact should

10:24:51 occur here, not for somebody that somehow they are
10:24:55 going to get a call back later on.
10:24:57 Many times you call inspectors, downtown hear back
10:25:00 from them.
10:25:00 I know how to go and find them but I hear people here
10:25:05 all the time, back in the audience, say, I tried, I
10:25:07 don't know Wan to do.
10:25:08 It not about me.
10:25:09 It's about people that don't know what to do.
10:25:14 This burden of proof is not about, you know, rental
10:25:17 properties and commercial properties.
10:25:18 That's considered a commercial property.
10:25:20 I'm talking about homeowner occupied residence.
10:25:24 And the burden of proof, when somebody comes and says,
10:25:27 well, you have to prove that you are not guilty.
10:25:31 What is it saying?
10:25:32 It says your defense you have to prove that the
10:25:35 city -- the greater burden is -- I'm just telling you
10:25:46 that the appearances.
10:25:47 You know I'm not an attorney.
10:25:48 I don't pretend to be an attorney.
10:25:49 I'm not here as an attorney.

10:25:51 I'm not suggesting that.
10:25:53 I don't know some of the laws like they do.
10:25:55 But I'm suggesting to you that there needs to be a
10:25:57 softer, gentler process when they get there.
10:26:00 And if you defer this, it will go on and will not be
10:26:04 addressed for four, offensive or six months.
10:26:07 It's not going to come back to you within 30 or 60
10:26:10 days.
10:26:10 It's an opportunity here.
10:26:11 And I don't have a problem.
10:26:13 I'm not even suggesting there's a problem, a
10:26:16 magistrate process.
10:26:17 But we need to go back and look at this.
10:26:19 These are tough times.
10:26:20 People are losing their homes.
10:26:22 And they need help.
10:26:24 They don't need to be burdened.
10:26:25 They don't need rallying around about, you know, I
10:26:29 need a conviction, I need a guilty plea.
10:26:31 They need help.
10:26:33 That's all I'm asking you to do is try to assist
10:26:36 people who need help.

10:26:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
10:26:39 Councilman Caetano.
10:26:43 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: If this is passed today -- sorry.
10:26:48 If this is passed today, how soon will you have the
10:26:54 part of it where people will be able to get
10:26:56 assistance?
10:26:58 >>SAL TERRITO: They are going to have to bring this
10:27:00 back and be another change to the ordinance.
10:27:01 I think what Mr. Mueller is trying to say is we are
10:27:04 trying to address an issue, address this one.
10:27:07 It's not going to change anything.
10:27:09 If you hold this up you are holding changes that are
10:27:11 vital to get changed now.
10:27:12 To bring back to you the other provision, will come
10:27:16 back to you in the regular course of things.
10:27:18 There's a lot of discussion.
10:27:19 Let me give you some background.
10:27:20 I was a hearing examiner for zonings for code
10:27:23 enforcement 12 years.
10:27:24 I understand this can be an intimidating situation.
10:27:26 But what you are dealing with, you have to have some
10:27:28 judgment on the part of the people hearing these

10:27:30 cases.
10:27:31 The burden of proof is not as Mr. Michelini says, the
10:27:34 person coming forward.
10:27:35 The burden is on the city to bring the case forward.
10:27:38 And I heard these cases.
10:27:40 What ended up happening is if I found that the city --
10:27:43 in my case with the county -- was not making their
10:27:45 case, the applicant didn't even have to come forward
10:27:47 because he's saying, you didn't prove your case.
10:27:51 Once the case is put on by the city and it meets the
10:27:53 burden, then the burden shifts to the person to say
10:27:56 that is not so.
10:27:57 So it's not quite like that.
10:27:59 These can be an intimidating situation.
10:28:01 That really has to be done by the board that is
10:28:03 hearing this thing or the hearing officer to put you
10:28:05 at ease.
10:28:06 Obviously you know that.
10:28:07 This is not a criminal matter.
10:28:09 It's not like you have to have representation because
10:28:11 you are coming before the court and you are going to
10:28:13 be put in jail if something happens.

10:28:14 This is not a criminal matter.
10:28:16 It's a civil infraction.
10:28:17 Not that it's not serious.
10:28:19 But to make this thing bigger than it is, I think, is
10:28:22 a bit misleading.
10:28:24 You have to be gentle.
10:28:25 Of course you do.
10:28:25 If they are homestead properties nothing is going to
10:28:28 happen at the particular time because homestead
10:28:30 properties can't be attached.
10:28:31 To make this into people losing their homes is a bit
10:28:34 of an overstatement.
10:28:35 We are mixing apples and oranges.
10:28:38 If you approve this dap this will get resolved.
10:28:41 They will have to bam come back and ask for either
10:28:44 some kind of administrative change or ordinance change
10:28:47 to require some kind of pre-representation, not that
10:28:50 you are going to have an attorney present but you have
10:28:54 someone to explain the process.
10:28:56 I probably went on a bit longer than you wanted but
10:28:59 it's not something that has to come back immediately.
10:29:01 Somebody has to make a determination what the cost is

10:29:03 going to be, bring it back to you and have a
10:29:05 discussion on that issue.
10:29:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: How long would it take to come
10:29:08 back with this provision that would provide this
10:29:10 service to these people?
10:29:12 Because you say there will be no criminal charges
10:29:14 against them.
10:29:15 But there's going to be monetary, if they have some
10:29:19 type of a problem they can't meet, the fine or
10:29:21 whatever is taking place there.
10:29:22 >>SAL TERRITO: You understand the process, these fines
10:29:26 can be very, very large, once you abate the violation,
10:29:29 once it's fixed that fine subpoena reduced $250 if you
10:29:33 are a residential property, and $500.
10:29:36 These are large numbers that are being put on
10:29:40 intimidating.
10:29:41 That is not what you end up paying.
10:29:43 But you have to fix the problem.
10:29:44 We always have this back and forth.
10:29:47 People complain we are not doing enough code
10:29:49 enforcement.
10:29:49 When we do code enforcement they complain we are doing

10:29:52 it too harshly.
10:29:54 You have to have a balance.
10:29:54 You have to have some compassion am W when people come
10:29:57 before you.
10:29:58 You have to have some discretion.
10:29:59 And people have a hardship.
10:30:01 There has to be some discretion in giving them time to
10:30:03 resolve these issues.
10:30:04 These issues may take years to resolve.
10:30:07 And if you think that's something you want to live
10:30:08 with, then the decision has to be made we are going to
10:30:11 give them as much time --
10:30:12 Okay.
10:30:13 We have got to move here.
10:30:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I was going to say, it seems to me
10:30:18 that for some people coming downtown, figuring out
10:30:23 where to park, figuring out where to go, being in a
10:30:25 chamber like this in itself is kind of daunting and
10:30:28 perhaps what we need to Don is not an ordinance change
10:30:31 but is to get a real human being with great
10:30:33 communication skills and people skills to be sort of a
10:30:37 triage you person out there before people -- triage

10:30:41 person to figure out if they need language support to
10:30:44 help them understand what they are here for and to
10:30:45 help them understand the lay of the land before they
10:30:48 sit in the audience for three hours.
10:30:49 I don't think we can tell the administration to do
10:30:52 that but we can certainly ask that with Tampa moneys
10:30:56 than is generated from these fines than we use one of
10:31:00 our staff people to function in that fashion before
10:31:03 the people come into the chambers.
10:31:05 And I think that you could do that like immediately.
10:31:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: As I understand, we need to pass the
10:31:15 ordinance and address some of these issues aside from
10:31:17 the ordinance.
10:31:19 Pretty much this is only addressing the change.
10:31:21 You already have the ordinance anyway, right?
10:31:26 You have a code enforcement hearing now, right?
10:31:31 >> Right.
10:31:32 There are a couple of additional --
10:31:35 So we need to pass this and come back and address
10:31:37 those other issues relative to -- I hear what Mr.
10:31:41 Michelini is saying -- those in the diversion program,
10:31:46 we have that in place, how we are going to address

10:31:49 that.
10:31:49 I think you outlined some of the steps.
10:31:53 Also representation now.
10:31:54 The question that Mr. Fletcher, in my office, who is
10:31:57 going to pay for that?
10:31:58 Because there is a cost now.
10:31:59 If there has to be a representation, who is going to
10:32:02 pay for that cost be? So we need to come back and
10:32:04 discuss all of that relative if there's going to be a
10:32:06 cost and how that's going to be handled.
10:32:08 I think what we hear from staff is they need to move
10:32:10 this forward so we can address the changes.
10:32:12 And certainly Mr. Michelini, I understand what you are
10:32:15 saying.
10:32:16 You have some concerns.
10:32:17 I think we can come back and address those issues.
10:32:19 Okay?
10:32:20 Is there a motion?
10:32:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
10:32:27 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
10:32:27 (Motion carried)
10:32:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Councilwoman Mulhern.

10:32:33 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance presented for
10:32:35 second reading, an ordinance of the city of Tampa,
10:32:38 Florida making comprehensive revision to chapter 9,
10:32:43 City of Tampa code of ordinances repealing all
10:32:45 ordinances, or parts of ordinances in conflict
10:32:48 therewith, providing an effective date.
10:32:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's a motion to adopt.
10:32:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded by
10:32:55 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:32:56 Yes, sir.
10:32:57 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I cannot support the ordinance.
10:32:59 I would like to see the whole package done like Ms.
10:33:03 Saul-Sena.
10:33:04 There's stress to these people who come in here.
10:33:07 They may not have the means financially, or the
10:33:10 language barrier, whatever.
10:33:11 Meanwhile, it could be six to eight months before this
10:33:14 comes back.
10:33:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote on the motion.
10:33:24 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano voting no and
10:33:33 Miranda being absent at vote.
10:33:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What I would like for us to do now is

10:33:37 to make a motion.
10:33:39 >>GWEN MILLER: I'm ready.
10:33:41 I would like to make a motion that we come up with
10:33:43 some guidelines for hardships, how we are going to
10:33:47 have someone to represent them, and maybe somebody
10:33:55 volunteer to do pro bono.
10:33:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: They can come back with some
10:33:59 recommendations.
10:34:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Come back with recommendations.
10:34:03 They could be outside, not in chambers, before they
10:34:05 come in and explain to them what's going on.
10:34:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And we already addressed the hardship
10:34:10 through the diversion program.
10:34:11 We have that in place, as Ms. Miller outlined.
10:34:13 I think the issue now becomes a representation or how
10:34:16 to explain to those persons who don't have
10:34:18 representation.
10:34:19 Yes.
10:34:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It seems when we discussed this
10:34:22 last time there was a huge disconnect between the
10:34:24 people who are appearing and the programs that Ms.
10:34:28 Miller has that they might not know about.

10:34:30 And what I think, this is very much a communication
10:34:34 issue.
10:34:35 So because for the entire administration to address,
10:34:42 to refine your motion, if you would, Ms. Miller, to
10:34:45 ask the administration to provide some additional
10:34:49 materials for people appearing before these boards
10:34:52 about resources that might be available through the
10:34:55 city to help them address their code enforcement
10:35:01 issues.
10:35:01 And I haven't seen it so if it is, you can share with
10:35:08 us.
10:35:08 If it doesn't, we need to develop it.
10:35:11 >>GWEN MILLER: The second meeting in February.
10:35:15 Is that time enough to come up with some --
10:35:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, you have a meeting on
10:35:21 February 6th and a meeting on February 19th.
10:35:23 >>GWEN MILLER: So which would be -- by the 19th.
10:35:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Mueller, does that give you time
10:35:34 to address and come back and report before council?
10:35:37 >>ERNEST MUELLER: I would hope so.
10:35:38 I don't know who I am going to need to contact.
10:35:40 It may be more than just a legal discussion.

10:35:44 If that isn't enough time --
10:35:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Michelini, do you want to work with
10:35:50 them on that?
10:35:51 Can you come up with suggestions?
10:35:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think Mr. Darrell Smith.
10:35:56 >>> I would be happy to work with them and try to come
10:36:03 up with something to help people.
10:36:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:36:09 (Motion carried)
10:36:10 We need to move to our staff reports at this point and
10:36:13 then we'll come back to the 9:30 public hearings which
10:36:21 is only two items.
10:36:22 Let's move to our staff reports and then come back to
10:36:24 those two.
10:36:32 Staff report item 73.
10:36:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item 73, council, is a memo that you
10:36:36 received that has a resolution attached to it.
10:36:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move the resolution.
10:36:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
10:36:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:36:48 (Motion carried)
10:36:50 Item 74.

10:37:01 >>CINDY MILLER: Director of growth management,
10:37:03 development services.
10:37:04 The request for administration to appear and provide a
10:37:08 report regarding annual comparison of construction
10:37:11 permits for 2006-2008.
10:37:15 I have submitted to you through the addenda -- I'm
10:37:21 tearing my memo apart here -- to be able to discuss
10:37:24 statistics requested for 2006 to 2008.
10:37:29 However, what I submitted to you was basically a
10:37:31 five-year comparison, 2004 and forward.
10:37:35 Perhaps it would be easiest if, the attach.
10:37:40 On my memo, if I talk about that.
10:37:51 In the memo, I will summarize it very briefly.
10:37:57 In comparison with 2006-2008, although I believe when
10:38:01 you look at the prior years, you will see that 2005
10:38:03 and 2006 were absolutely record years.
10:38:07 So, therefore, it was the highest level of activity,
10:38:09 whether it was for residential in 2005 or for
10:38:11 commercial in 2006.
10:38:14 When you look at commercial, the extreme increase was
10:38:18 basically due to condominium construction.
10:38:21 Residential, we are down dramatically.

10:38:24 We are down less than other jurisdictions around the
10:38:26 state and around the country.
10:38:28 However, we are very similar to other parts of Florida
10:38:32 where there is an extreme inventory now of residential
10:38:38 units.
10:38:38 And we have been, I think, very lucky at this point
10:38:42 that our commercial has stayed fairly stable over the
10:38:45 years.
10:38:45 And I am here with John Barrios of construction
10:38:49 services if you have any questions but that is
10:38:50 basically our statistical information.
10:38:52 Just a third update from previous memos.
10:38:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It seems to me that being an
10:38:59 optimist that throws always a silver lining to
10:39:01 something, and that is that we have identified so many
10:39:04 improvements that need to be made in our process, and
10:39:08 in this quiescent time we have the opportunity to
10:39:11 improve our staff response to the public to make our
10:39:16 reviews more timely, more thorough, more customer
10:39:19 friendly, and I believe that you are doing that.
10:39:21 And I wonder if you could briefly share how we are
10:39:25 doing that, and if we could deploy perhaps some of the

10:39:29 staff who are not needed to review applications,
10:39:33 because there are so many applications come in, how we
10:39:38 are using them during this quiet time.
10:39:39 >>CINDY MILLER: There's a number of areas that we are
10:39:42 working on.
10:39:43 One is that John Barrios, our manager of construction
10:39:47 services, is basically improving the training for his
10:39:50 employees.
10:39:51 I'll go on a little bit of aside track.
10:39:55 As an exam we are putting to training for our green
10:39:57 ordinance and for green initiatives.
10:39:59 We are going to have that throughout the entire
10:40:01 building and throughout my entire department as well
10:40:04 as with other city departments.
10:40:05 In addition there is additional training, whether it
10:40:07 is computerization, or other enhancements.
10:40:15 We also did an extensive flow chart that would have
10:40:17 filled this entire wall as to how many how many times
10:40:21 a permit hits the same desk.
10:40:22 We are trying to avoid it hitting a desk for more than
10:40:25 once.
10:40:25 We are trying to get those improvements so when we do

10:40:28 get an upsurge we will see it again.
10:40:30 It is going to be difficult times.
10:40:31 There is no doubt about it.
10:40:33 We have contractors and developers and small business
10:40:35 owners that are suffering greatly.
10:40:37 But we do hope that we will be able to provide prompt,
10:40:42 efficient and friendly service, because I think next
10:40:48 year is going to be a difficult year.
10:40:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To follow through very
10:40:51 specifically, since the volume that you shared with us
10:40:53 has changed so dramatically, are you how are you
10:40:58 dealing with the staffing of these different areas?
10:41:01 >>> At this point, we are on a hiring freeze frankly.
10:41:04 As a matter of fact, we have a couple of retirements
10:41:06 coming up.
10:41:07 We are therefore not going back to those positions.
10:41:11 I am also utilizing inspection staff to assist Mrs.
10:41:14 West in housing community development to do
10:41:17 inspections of our rehabilitative houses so there is a
10:41:20 number of ways that division to division they are
10:41:22 working together.
10:41:22 >> That's great, thank you.

10:41:28 >>CINDY MILLER: And may I say, for the affordable
10:41:32 housing report, I think we can wrap that up.
10:41:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go ahead.
10:41:36 >> Item 57 which was removed from the consent agenda
10:41:40 and I asked be brought forward for staff reports, the
10:41:42 state legislature had included in recent legislation
10:41:48 that every jurisdiction have an affordable housing
10:41:51 variety committee, went by different names, by city or
10:41:55 county throughout the state.
10:41:56 City Council had appointed a number of members.
10:41:59 Mr. Ron Carpenter, Anthony Locolla, Herold Lord,
10:42:03 Vivian Kitchen, James Horvick. The mayor's
10:42:06 appointments to this committee were Catherine Byrd,
10:42:06 Leslie Griffin, David Lapitas, Rayme Nuckles, and
10:42:13 Deborah Reyes. They worked very hard over the past if
10:42:16 you months to be able to take a look at our housing
10:42:19 where it deals with state funding.
10:42:21 The primary duty was to report back at the housing --
10:42:25 the cost of housing, construction could be reduced.
10:42:29 There is an extensive group of recommendations.
10:42:32 The staff needs to review.
10:42:34 Basically the process for this report is today it is

10:42:37 simply a receive and file by City Council.
10:42:39 We are going to be coming back to you January 29th
10:42:43 in the fair housing workshop.
10:42:44 And then basically within 90 days of today's date, we
10:42:47 would ask City Council's action as to adopting
10:42:50 anything that you believe after you have had a chance
10:42:53 to look at this, and our staff work on it, as to any
10:42:57 changes we should make in our plans for the state.
10:42:59 So, therefore, we would be back to you for City
10:43:01 Council action again either, say, February 19th or
10:43:04 March 5th to be able to meet those deadlines.
10:43:07 So the good thing is, we have some time.
10:43:10 But staff will be working with not just my department
10:43:14 but on the departments to take a look at these issues.
10:43:16 And Mr. La cola who chaired the committee is here if
10:43:19 you have any questions.
10:43:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:43:27 Come on down, chair of the committee.
10:43:31 >> Tony Lacolla, chair of the affordable housing
10:43:34 committee.
10:43:34 It was a privilege to serve as chair.
10:43:36 And of course our work is far from complete.

10:43:38 This is preliminary initial work.
10:43:40 I think as you read through the report you will notice
10:43:42 there was a lot of attention paid to sustainability,
10:43:46 and we wanted to make sure those were incorporated as
10:43:51 well as paying attention to our urban core area and
10:43:55 trying to renovate those areas.
10:43:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
10:43:59 Any questions by council?
10:44:01 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:44:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like it to come back the
10:44:05 earlier date because I think we need to implement the
10:44:08 recommendations as soon as possible.
10:44:10 I think there was a February date.
10:44:13 >>CINDY MILLER: February 19th will be a regular
10:44:15 council meeting.
10:44:16 >> Thank you, Mr. La cola.
10:44:20 >> And then for today we would need a motion to
10:44:22 receive and file the report that's been submitted.
10:44:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You have two motions.
10:44:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, to receive and file this and
10:44:31 then to have it come back.
10:44:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to receive and file.

10:44:34 Moved by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:44:36 Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:44:40 All in favor of? Opposes?
10:44:42 Now the second motion.
10:44:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The second motion was to have it
10:44:45 come back February 19th.
10:44:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
10:44:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: February 19th.
10:44:50 Moved by Councilwoman Saul-Sena, seconded by
10:44:53 Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:44:54 (Motion carried).
10:44:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Ms. Miller, I'm so glad you're
10:44:59 here.
10:45:00 Just a quick question.
10:45:01 You were here earlier for our discussion about the
10:45:03 bikeways, and which totally ties into the pointed made
10:45:08 by the affordable housing that we need to make it
10:45:10 pedestrian transit bicycle friendly.
10:45:15 I believe you are working with the transportation
10:45:18 department on the transportation technical support
10:45:23 manual.
10:45:24 >>CINDY MILLER: There is really a city-wide team with

10:45:27 the city transportation, legal, and my staff to take a
10:45:30 look at the transportation tech manual.
10:45:32 I think we all agree that it is sort of outdated and
10:45:35 needs to be updated dramatically.
10:45:37 What we are looking at is basically a rewrite, a lot
10:45:42 of, frankly, editing that eliminates a lot of
10:45:44 provisions.
10:45:45 Because this is really engineering standards that have
10:45:47 to meet with state code and things of that nature.
10:45:49 What our plan is for 2009 southbound we would come
10:45:53 back to you in, I believe, it will be the first
10:45:55 quarter.
10:45:56 We have one more meeting in January to do sort of a
10:45:58 final read.
10:45:59 Sometime in the first quarter, come to you with in
10:46:02 effect a code change to be able to adopt the revised
10:46:06 technical manual and then such items as an example,
10:46:09 the pedestrian plan for Westshore that will be
10:46:13 completed.
10:46:14 We then would be looking at that, and have
10:46:17 recommendations back to council as to how that should
10:46:19 appropriately be adopted into code.

10:46:20 Also looking at other areas as we look at overlays or
10:46:24 core based code districts, things of that nature.
10:46:26 So we would be come back to you and on a periodic
10:46:29 basis after that.
10:46:30 >> I think this was great.
10:46:32 I think that we are more than eager to get this done.
10:46:36 We would like you to come to us as soon as possible.
10:46:41 Answer as soon as you have a draft to get it to us so
10:46:44 we can share it with people in the community such as
10:46:46 members of the local roadways committee, such as Glad
10:46:48 and Jackson in Orlando who have been doing this for
10:46:52 years so we can get all that good input and move it
10:46:55 and get it done.
10:46:56 >>CINDY MILLER: We'll be glad to.
10:46:58 Thank you very much, council.
10:46:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
10:47:01 Item 78 we already set for January 29th, a
10:47:04 workshop.
10:47:06 Item 79, city attorney Jan McLean.
10:47:13 >> Good morning.
10:47:15 I apologize for not being here for 73, if anybody has
10:47:18 any questions.

10:47:19 It got passed really quickly.
10:47:22 On item 79, Brad Baird is here for the water
10:47:27 department, and myself, we were requested to appear
10:47:29 and provide you with any report on any kind of
10:47:31 language discrepancy and clarify not in the statute
10:47:34 but in the code of ordinances which provides the
10:47:36 requirement for an application but not actual
10:47:38 installation for a water connection.
10:47:40 We have looked at our code of ordinances and what is
10:47:43 in there in chapter 26-26 is more specifically to a
10:47:48 larger connection.
10:47:49 It does need clarification to indicate what the
10:47:52 process is for a homeowner connection.
10:47:54 And both Mr. Barry and I recommend that revisions to
10:47:58 the code be developed and returned to you for your
10:48:01 consideration within 90 days.
10:48:07 This is Mr. Miranda's request.
10:48:08 >>MARY MULHERN: Since Mr. Miranda is not here, you are
10:48:13 working with him, is that right? You are working with
10:48:15 Mr. Miranda?
10:48:16 >> Yes.
10:48:17 >> So need a motion to come back in 930 days?

10:48:20 >> Yes, sir.
10:48:21 >>MARY MULHERN: Move to have the water department and
10:48:24 the city attorney Jan McLean come back in 90 days with
10:48:28 a report on this.
10:48:32 >> And including revisions to the code.
10:48:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved by Councilwoman Mulhern,
10:48:38 seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:48:40 (Motion carried)
10:48:44 Item 80, there was a request that we continue this
10:48:48 item to --
10:48:51 >>GWEN MILLER: January 8th.
10:48:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: January 8, '09.
10:48:55 >>GWEN MILLER: We did that.
10:48:56 We already did it.
10:48:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:48:58 Item 81.
10:49:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I read the memo.
10:49:08 And sometimes it's difficult to know when we receive a
10:49:12 response to an inquiry, if the department is really
10:49:18 taking it seriously, because I frankly thought that
10:49:20 Mr. Thomas' suggestion was well taken.
10:49:23 I mean, I think we should water less, mow less

10:49:28 frequently, particularly because we are in this
10:49:30 intense drought period.
10:49:32 So what I would like to do is I'll speak with the
10:49:35 Parks Department, thanking them for their response but
10:49:37 really encourage them to talk to the people with whom
10:49:39 we have a contract about lightening their touch on the
10:49:44 mowing and perhaps going to every two-week watering.
10:49:47 I just feel like Mr. Thomas had an excellent point.
10:49:49 And we shouldn't just do business as usual because we
10:49:52 are aware of how Del delicate our watering situation
10:49:55 is.
10:50:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion.
10:50:02 >>MARY MULHERN: I think that -- I agree with Ms.
10:50:06 Saul-Sena, and also thinking that we do have to, of
10:50:10 course, you know, be good on our contracts, but the
10:50:13 fact that maybe there will be less watering doesn't
10:50:17 mean that we don't have to fulfill the contract.
10:50:19 We can still be paying them, but that's what I would
10:50:24 like to understand.
10:50:28 The landscapers, they could weed or plant for us.
10:50:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have a motion to receive and file.
10:50:37 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: On that motion, Mr. Chairman, the

10:50:39 recreation department, or parks and recreations, has
10:50:43 somebody that goes out and check it is mowing
10:50:45 contracts, okay?
10:50:48 Is this gentleman going to curtail some of his
10:50:51 inspections?
10:50:52 Because they are not going to be cutting the grass,
10:50:53 okay?
10:50:57 Do we need somebody doing that?
10:51:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, that was under administration.
10:51:09 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like a follow-up report,
10:51:10 if we curtail the cutting of the grass, what's going
10:51:13 to happen with the person that's doing the inspections
10:51:16 of the cutting of grass to see that those contracts
10:51:19 are fulfilled?
10:51:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's deal with the receive and file.
10:51:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
10:51:29 (Motion carried).
10:51:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Now a motion on the floor by
10:51:33 councilman Caetano that the parks and rec report back
10:51:37 to us relative to the persons who actually check to
10:51:41 see what the board is doing, how would that be handled
10:51:43 in the future?

10:51:45 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to add to that motion
10:51:47 what I was getting at, that we get a report on whether
10:51:52 we can still honor the contracts we have for mowing it
10:51:57 but possibly redirect the work so that instead of
10:52:04 necessarily watering, we might have them do some other
10:52:06 landscaping work.
10:52:08 >> That would include what councilman Caetano --
10:52:11 >>MARY MULHERN: Can I add that to the motion?
10:52:14 >> Yes.
10:52:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Would a written response suffice?
10:52:19 Or do you want an appearance by staff?
10:52:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Well, at the next meeting.
10:52:26 I want to add something else to that.
10:52:28 In the event that we suspend the cutting of the grass,
10:52:33 we need to have our contracts in the future modified,
10:52:37 that if that takes place you are not going to be
10:52:38 cutting grass, you ain't going to get paid, okay?
10:52:41 It's got to be clear cut and dried.
10:52:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think that's part of her motion.
10:52:48 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
10:52:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The contracts that are in existence, I
10:52:52 don't think there's anything we can do with them.

10:52:54 But I think there's one today.
10:52:57 A mowing contract.
10:53:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Under staff reports?
10:53:04 >> On the next meeting in January.
10:53:06 Is that your request?
10:53:10 >> Councilman Dingfelder.
10:53:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Most of our contracts have a 30-day
10:53:14 out clause.
10:53:16 I'm not sure exactly which contract we are talking
10:53:18 about.
10:53:19 But there's contract we are concerned about, and the
10:53:22 city wants to address some of these issues, there's a
10:53:24 30-day out clause where you can cancel.
10:53:27 If they weren't willing to modify.
10:53:29 So I'll just throw that out there.
10:53:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Talking about all the mowing
10:53:34 contracts, way understand, you are talking about all
10:53:36 the mowing with park and rec and so forth, right?
10:53:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Uh-huh.
10:53:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's a motion made by councilman
10:53:43 Caetano, seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern, a report to
10:53:47 appear before us at the first meeting in January or

10:53:53 second?
10:53:54 First meeting or second meeting?
10:53:55 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Whenever they have it ready.
10:54:01 >>MARY MULHERN: Let's make it the second.
10:54:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: January 22nd then.
10:54:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:54:08 Opposes?
10:54:09 Thank you.
10:54:14 Item 81.
10:54:15 I believe that covers all of our staff.
10:54:17 We move to item -- we pulled 14 and subpoena.
10:54:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:54:25 If you all look in regard to item 14, item 14 is a
10:54:39 good thing, the purchase of garbage trucks for $2
10:54:44 million.
10:54:44 The only thing that jumped out on number 14 and I
10:54:47 discussed this with Mr. Daignault and his staff that
10:54:50 we have nine garbage trucks, that we will then need to
10:54:54 dispose of.
10:54:58 And normally, I think in the past, we have just taken
10:55:01 them out to the auction out on the east side of town,
10:55:03 and it doesn't appear that we get a whole lot of

10:55:06 money.
10:55:08 There's typically like an average of like $5,000.
10:55:17 The dealer who we are buying the new ones from is
10:55:20 offering us about 8 to $10,000 for these trucks.
10:55:23 Then I compared to the some online stuff nationally
10:55:27 and I said it looks like these same trucks by model
10:55:30 and year are maybe getting $20,000 if you can get them
10:55:33 out there nationally.
10:55:34 It makes more sense.
10:55:36 It's a real specialized piece of equipment.
10:55:38 There might be a better market for it nationally than
10:55:40 locally.
10:55:42 How many garbage companies are there locally?
10:55:44 So, anyway, my whole point is I am going to move item
10:55:47 14.
10:55:47 My whole point is apparently we have nine months that
10:55:51 we are going to be getting rid of these and it's my
10:55:54 understanding from Steve, and you might want to
10:55:57 confirm this, that there's no contractual obligation
10:56:00 understood this agreement for us to sell it back to
10:56:02 the vendor that worry buying these from.
10:56:04 That's the way I just read it on the computer.

10:56:07 It says trade-in but it doesn't appear to be binding.
10:56:11 At least until terms of the numbers that I saw on that
10:56:15 column.
10:56:16 There's an asterisk down at the bottom that says this
10:56:20 total of $2 million does not include the $60,000 of
10:56:23 trade-in.
10:56:24 By the way the average trade-in, what is it, $7,000
10:56:28 average trade-in for a garbage truck.
10:56:31 Seems like you get that much for scrap metal.
10:56:36 >> Greg Spearman.
10:56:41 It does in fact include a trade-in.
10:56:45 We have a written quote from the vendor that includes
10:56:47 the $635,000 so we would take it, we would be able to
10:56:50 take advantage of the trade-in immediately.
10:56:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The page I looked at, and maybe you
10:56:57 can put it on the screen as a backup, has an asterisk
10:57:00 this says this $2 million does not include the
10:57:02 trade-in.
10:57:03 Do you know the page I'm talking about?
10:57:05 >> I'm not sure what that is because I'm looking at
10:57:07 the vendor's quote, and it does clearly show a $65,000
10:57:12 credit toward the trade-in.

10:57:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I hate to take time from council's
10:57:20 busy schedule just to nitpick on this issue.
10:57:23 If Mr. Shelby pull that is up which I just did five
10:57:26 minutes ago --
10:57:27 Council, let me just say, I don't know how you all
10:57:30 want to proceed.
10:57:30 Councilman Miranda chairs that committee that I think
10:57:37 there is being discussion on.
10:57:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We could defer this to this
10:57:43 afternoon after Mr. Miranda gets back, out of
10:57:46 deference to Mr. Miranda, that's fine.
10:57:47 I am willing to move item 14 if it's just the purchase
10:57:51 side of this and not the sale side of this.
10:57:52 >>GREG SPEARMAN: We asked the vendor to quote with the
10:57:56 trade-in and without the trade-in.
10:57:58 The reason we do that is because we want to verify
10:58:01 whether or not the vendor is giving us a better price
10:58:04 for the trade-in than what we have historically gotten
10:58:08 from the auction price.
10:58:09 Once we look compared to what we have got
10:58:12 traditionally with options, we decided that the vendor
10:58:15 was offering a much better deal to the city with the

10:58:18 trade-in.
10:58:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
10:58:21 Say we buy this for the $2 million, 2,045,000, without
10:58:28 the trade-in --
10:58:32 >>GREG SPEARMAN: That number does include the
10:58:33 trade-in.
10:58:34 >> Well, it doesn't according to your own backup which
10:58:36 is right here.
10:58:37 I'm just looking at it the way I read it.
10:58:39 So you read it and tell me if you read it differently.
10:58:42 If the backup is not accurate coming to us, then we
10:58:46 shouldn't be given it.
10:58:47 >>> Well, I'm not certain what that says.
10:58:50 >> Well, look at it.
10:58:51 >>> I'm looking at the quote --
10:58:55 >> Read the asterisk, Mr. Shelby, on the bottom of
10:58:58 that page.
10:58:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe, Mr. Dingfelder, you are
10:59:04 referring to a memo that is dated November 3rd,
10:59:07 2008, to Gregory Spearman from David Rickerhauser,
10:59:13 subject of the automated side loader trucks, on the
10:59:16 bottom of that page it says total cost, $2,045,000

10:59:22 with an asterisk below that the asterisk says the
10:59:26 total cost does not reflect the future trade-in
10:59:30 reduction.
10:59:31 >> The future trade-in deduction would be a much lower
10:59:34 price, okay.
10:59:35 So what we are saying here is we include the price
10:59:38 today for the trade-in.
10:59:43 This says that the total cost does not reflect the
10:59:47 future trade-in reduction.
10:59:50 >> Which is that $65,000.
10:59:52 >>> The $65,000, Congressman Dingfelder, if you add up
10:59:55 the cost of the five, the three and the one, and then
10:59:58 Tau off the $65,000 and you come to the 2,000 --
11:00:02 >> I'll tell you. What out of deference to you and
11:00:06 council's patience let's revisit those numbers this
11:00:10 afternoon and see if we have a differing of opinion.
11:00:13 My only point is I think -- these are tough times.
11:00:16 And we need to pinch every penny possible.
11:00:18 And I'll tell you what, when I go buy a new vehicle,
11:00:22 which is not very often, about once every ten years,
11:00:25 and the dealer says, I'll take your car as trade-in,
11:00:28 they rarely will do it because I know they are not

11:00:30 really giving me a good deal, so I don't know why we
11:00:33 feel any differently when perhaps we could hire a
11:00:37 broker to go out and put these on some national web
11:00:40 sites, and do it through that mechanism.
11:00:43 If we can't get a better deal, then fine, we'll sell
11:00:46 them to the dealer.
11:00:48 Let's talk about it this afternoon.
11:00:49 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Dingfelder, you know we are
11:00:53 on a national deals.com.
11:00:58 I met with Mr. Spearman, and chief of staff.
11:01:08 How old are these vehicles you are going to trade in?
11:01:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 2000.
11:01:15 >>> They may be about, what, seven years of age?
11:01:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The fact is you want to change to
11:01:25 the side load vehicles.
11:01:26 Are these vehicles functioning right now?
11:01:28 >>> We are using those vehicles currently right now
11:01:31 until the new trucks come in.
11:01:33 It will be about nine months.
11:01:35 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: You are going to use them for
11:01:36 nine months.
11:01:37 You can probably use them for another three years,

11:01:39 too, if you maintain them properly, because we spend a
11:01:41 lot of money maintaining our equipment.
11:01:43 >>> Well, the maintenance cost is such that it exceeds
11:01:47 good business decisions in terms of keeping the
11:01:48 vehicles.
11:01:49 That's the reason we are getting rid of them.
11:01:51 >> Did you go to deals and see what you can get from
11:01:57 these vehicles?
11:01:57 >> We could do that but we don't normally post them
11:02:00 until we are ready to sell them.
11:02:01 But we have looked at historic data in terms of what
11:02:04 these vehicles are and we are confident those numbers
11:02:07 are good.
11:02:07 >> You showed me when I was up there all the figures
11:02:09 that you have gotten back, and you said it the
11:02:12 greatest deal, that's why you gave up the auction
11:02:15 house.
11:02:15 >> That is correct.
11:02:16 >> What I would like to see you put those things on
11:02:19 GOV deals and see what kind of money they bring in.
11:02:22 >>> Again, Councilman Miranda --
11:02:25 >> I'm not Councilman Miranda.

11:02:27 >>> I'm sorry, Councilman Caetano.
11:02:31 If we put those out now, the problem we are going to
11:02:33 have is we create an expectation in the marketplace we
11:02:38 are ready to sell them and we are not so we don't want
11:02:40 to put them out there until we are actually ready to
11:02:42 sell them.
11:02:42 >> Do you have to sell them if you put it there?
11:02:44 >> We should sell them if we put them out there.
11:02:47 >> Put them up at a high price, and see what kind of
11:02:50 bid you get.
11:02:51 And you don't have to accept them.
11:02:53 >> We won't be able to use them because we have to use
11:02:57 these trucks until the new ones come in.
11:03:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman, this is just that he bring
11:03:05 this back and councilman Miranda, it's his item, and
11:03:09 he requested that.
11:03:11 If there's going to be some debate at least he be
11:03:13 allowed to be here.
11:03:15 I respect that.
11:03:16 So why don't we continue till he's here.
11:03:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Move to continue till this afternoon
11:03:20 when councilman Miranda --

11:03:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder, the other one.
11:03:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 17.
11:03:32 As long as Charlie wants to participate we'll continue
11:03:35 both of them.
11:03:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll continue both of them until Mr.
11:03:39 Miranda is here.
11:03:41 All in favor?
11:03:43 Opposed?
11:03:44 (Motion carried)
11:03:45 That concludes all of our staff reports.
11:03:46 Do we have any other staff reports?
11:03:53 17, we just continued that.
11:03:54 Councilman Miranda wanted to be here if those items
11:03:57 get PUD.
11:03:57 He wanted to here so he can discuss them.
11:04:00 We continued them till he's here.
11:04:03 Sorry you have to come back.
11:04:06 That concludes all of our staff reports.
11:04:08 Then we'll go now back to our public hearing.
11:04:21 If you are going to be addressing council, please
11:04:23 stand and be sworn.
11:04:24 If you are going to address council.

11:04:33 (Oath administered by Clerk)
11:04:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open items 71 and 72.
11:04:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:04:40 (Motion carried).
11:04:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 71.
11:04:48 Item 71.
11:04:53 >>> Samantha Fenger, Land Development Coordination.
11:04:56 Item 71 and 72 require certified site plans.
11:04:59 These site plans everybody certified by the zoning
11:05:01 administrator and have been provided to the clerk.
11:05:03 I have certified plans here with me today if you have
11:05:05 any questions.
11:05:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:05:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just have a question on 71.
11:05:13 Could you refresh my memory on the exact location of
11:05:16 this, what bank it is and what they are asking for?
11:05:20 Is this the old Boston market that's turning into a
11:05:23 bank?
11:05:24 >>> Yes, it is.
11:05:25 >> Okay, then I remember it.
11:05:27 Thank you.
11:05:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other questions?

11:05:30 Motion to close.
11:05:33 This is a public hearing.
11:05:34 Does anyone wish to address council on public hearing,
11:05:36 item 71?
11:05:38 Item 71.
11:05:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
11:05:42 >> Second.
11:05:42 (Motion carried).
11:05:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to comment on it.
11:05:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go ahead.
11:05:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My comment is that while I'm not --
11:05:51 because we are trying to make Kennedy Boulevard into a
11:05:54 beautiful Boulevard that's pedestrian oriented, I
11:05:57 wouldn't really support the idea of new
11:05:59 drive-throughs.
11:06:00 This is an existing drive-through, and a bank would
11:06:04 actually have hours that are more restrictive than the
11:06:07 previous fast food place.
11:06:09 I think this will be an enhancement of the property.
11:06:11 I'm going to support it.
11:06:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to adopt the following ordinance
11:06:21 on second reading, an ordinance approving a special

11:06:23 use permit S-2 approving a bank with a drive-in window
11:06:26 in a CG commercial general zoning district in the
11:06:29 general vicinity of 4302 West Kennedy Boulevard in the
11:06:33 city of Tampa, Florida and as more particularly
11:06:35 described in section 1 hereof approving waivers as set
11:06:37 forth herein, providing an effective date.
11:06:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
11:06:42 Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
11:06:44 Record your vote, please.
11:07:13 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent
11:07:15 at vote.
11:07:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess the prayer is working today.
11:07:20 She said pray for humor.
11:07:24 All right, 72.
11:07:25 Public hearing.
11:07:26 Anyone want to address council on this item?
11:07:29 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
11:07:29 I have a substitute ordinance reflecting the name of
11:07:32 the straight change.
11:07:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:07:35 Anyone wants to address council on item 72?
11:07:37 >>> It is not changing the name of the street.

11:07:53 It is an alcohol special use permit.
11:07:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The chairman and I transmitted your
11:08:02 comments and concerns.
11:08:05 I'm sure if you want to speak, I'm sure the chairman
11:08:07 would accept that.
11:08:08 But I think we already passed that this morning.
11:08:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Did you want to address council?
11:08:17 Let me carry this and then I'll give you an
11:08:20 opportunity to speak.
11:08:20 This is item 72.
11:08:21 Councilwoman Miller -- I mean, Saul-Sena, read 72.
11:08:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:08:27 If he's going to comment --
11:08:31 THE WITNESS: That's something outside this hearing.
11:08:34 Motion to close first, please.
11:08:36 I'm sorry.
11:08:36 >> Motion to close.
11:08:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:08:39 (Motion carried).
11:08:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go ahead.
11:08:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move an ordinance
11:08:42 approving a special use permit S-2 for alcoholic

11:08:45 beverage sales large venue and making lawful the sale
11:08:48 of beverages regardless of alcoholic content beer,
11:08:50 wine and liquor 4(COP-X) for consumption on premises
11:08:53 only at or from that certain lot, plot or tract of
11:08:55 land located at 801 old waters street, Tampa, Florida
11:08:58 as more particularly described in section 2 hereof
11:09:00 approving waivers as set forth herein waiving certain
11:09:04 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
11:09:06 findings, imposing certain conditions, providing for
11:09:09 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
11:09:11 effective date.
11:09:11 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
11:09:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
11:09:26 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent
11:09:28 at vote.
11:09:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Would you like to comment before
11:09:35 council?
11:09:36 >>> Ron Pierce, the director of government relations
11:09:39 and community affairs for the Tampa Bay Lightning and
11:09:42 St. Pete Times Forum.
11:09:43 I'll be very brief.
11:09:44 I know you already covered this this morning.

11:09:46 I apologize.
11:09:46 I was at a meeting this morning.
11:09:48 I couldn't get here first thing.
11:09:49 We want to make you aware we were never notified about
11:09:51 the potential name changes from St. Pete Times Forum
11:09:54 driver to old water Street.
11:09:56 We want to work with our new neighbor in the history
11:09:59 center, also wants to work with the city in trying to
11:10:01 accomplish this.
11:10:02 One of the things we tried to communicate yesterday
11:10:04 through staff, if there's any way there can be some
11:10:07 sort of dual signage where we can still keep St. Pete
11:10:10 Times Forum drive.
11:10:12 We feel it's very important.
11:10:13 A lot of people felt it was named with the St. Pete
11:10:17 Times and the naming rights.
11:10:19 It's really for the building itself and the St. Pete
11:10:23 Times had nothing to do -- we wanted for the street to
11:10:26 be named for the building.
11:10:28 And so what we would like to do possibly, and probably
11:10:32 it was passed this morning, but we can work with staff
11:10:34 on trying to do some sort of dual signage and we would

11:10:37 like to work with you in making it happen.
11:10:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Pierce.
11:10:41 We did address that, both myself and councilman
11:10:44 Dingfelder, recognizing the fact we both got calls and
11:10:47 we placed it on the record this morning and we asked
11:10:49 staff to look at what they could do administratively
11:10:51 to make that happen.
11:10:55 >>MARY MULHERN: And Mr. Howe from the history center
11:10:58 said that he -- he has spoken to someone, but you
11:11:02 should be hearing from him, too.
11:11:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: George Howe was here and we asked him
11:11:07 to follow up with that and communicate with you and
11:11:09 the lightning.
11:11:10 So hopefully it can be done administratively.
11:11:16 >>> Excellent.
11:11:16 Thank you all very much.
11:11:17 Happy holiday and happy new year.
11:11:20 I appreciate it.
11:11:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other items?
11:11:22 Yes.
11:11:27 All agenda items are 1:30 items.
11:11:31 Let's take care of new business.

11:11:32 Okay.
11:11:33 Councilwoman Mulhern.
11:11:36 >> I thought you would start with councilman
11:11:40 Dingfelder.
11:11:41 I have to get my act together.
11:11:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:11:46 Mrs. Saul-Sena.
11:11:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to hand out to council
11:11:49 members something that I put in your boxes.
11:11:51 It was a memo that I had written about bicycle and
11:11:54 pedestrian improvements.
11:11:58 The good news is that the new comp plan which we set
11:12:02 up is absolutely wonderful and it talks about these
11:12:06 bicycle and pedestrian improvements, and I have every
11:12:09 anticipation that they will Compaq and say you all did
11:12:12 a great job.
11:12:13 But the disconnect is between what we are adopting in
11:12:15 the comprehensive plan and what we need to adopt as
11:12:18 policies.
11:12:19 So recognizing what Mr. Dingfelder said earlier, which
11:12:23 is that you really need to do things in ordinances, to
11:12:26 make them have effectiveness, and recognizing that our

11:12:31 staff is busy.
11:12:35 I would like to request that we send this to both
11:12:41 Cindy Miller's department and the legal department for
11:12:43 a number of ordinances that could come back to us by
11:12:54 the second meeting in February, where they could
11:12:57 report on the status of them.
11:13:02 Some of these things are more complex.
11:13:04 Some are pretty simple.
11:13:10 My motion would be that they take these bullet points,
11:13:13 translate them into the appropriate place, whether
11:13:18 it's the technical manual in ordinance form or
11:13:21 whatever and report back to us at the second council
11:13:23 meeting in February.
11:13:24 I believe it's the 22nd to the 19th.
11:13:33 >> Second.
11:13:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It seems like a short window.
11:13:36 Are they coming back with a report or a document?
11:13:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think for each of these, it might
11:13:40 be something different.
11:13:41 There might be a report.
11:13:42 We'll include that in the changes that we are bringing
11:13:44 to the Planning Commission, the bike rack thing seems

11:13:52 like a real simple thing to do.
11:13:53 And some of them might just be policy changes with the
11:13:56 planning people talking to the implementation people.
11:13:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: To get a report back from them in
11:14:01 January.
11:14:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A report back in February on the
11:14:04 status of each of where they are in the process of
11:14:08 addressing each of these issues.
11:14:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
11:14:14 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:14:16 Opposes?
11:14:18 Thank you.
11:14:19 Councilwoman Miller.
11:14:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Nothing, Mr. Chairman.
11:14:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
11:14:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Our office is a big supporter of
11:14:27 the Humane Society and protection of animals through
11:14:30 this community.
11:14:31 I would like to have Ms. Sherri silk, Executive
11:14:35 Committee, to come and give us about three minutes on
11:14:37 January 8th to talk about a free shot clinic that
11:14:42 they are sponsoring January 10th in Sulphur

11:14:44 Springs.
11:14:44 I think that's good public health.
11:14:47 It will be very brief, Mr. Chairman.
11:14:50 I would like her to come speak to us January 8th,
11:14:52 and then the free shot program will be Saturday,
11:14:57 January 10th.
11:14:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's moved and seconded.
11:14:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Where would you want that to appear,
11:15:03 a time certain at 9:00?
11:15:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
11:15:07 Or 9:15, whatever.
11:15:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Or do you want it under public
11:15:10 comment?
11:15:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like it to be an agendaed
11:15:14 item.
11:15:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Under public comment.
11:15:23 Okay.
11:15:24 Can we do that?
11:15:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, you can have it as the first
11:15:31 item with public comment.
11:15:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just want it agendaed.
11:15:35 I don't care where you all put it.

11:15:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Madam clerk, would that be okay,
11:15:40 under public comment?
11:15:41 Okay.
11:15:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
11:15:44 (Motion carried).
11:15:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This next one I am going to adopt a
11:15:50 very deep voice.
11:15:51 I would like to give a commendation to Harold Scott,
11:15:57 enforcement supervisor.
11:15:59 He comes over and I believe he's the pastor.
11:16:05 Harold is a wonderful guy and he's retiring after 34
11:16:08 years of service to the City of Tampa.
11:16:10 So we'll see when he's available to come in in
11:16:13 January.
11:16:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
11:16:18 (Motion carried).
11:16:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I can't go that low.
11:16:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I have one item.
11:16:26 You should have all received from me an e-mail earlier
11:16:29 this week asking for your recommendations or your
11:16:34 appointments to be budgeted advisory committee.
11:16:37 And so if anyone has any names, if it's a

11:16:44 reappointment or new, if you could let me know now.
11:16:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Mine is a reappointment of the same
11:16:50 person.
11:16:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Me, too.
11:16:51 >> Me too.
11:16:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The person I was going to appoint was
11:16:56 a CPA so I have to check.
11:16:59 >>MARY MULHERN: Can you do that and get back?
11:17:01 >> Yes, I will, thank you.
11:17:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT
11:17:13 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm going to bring up again.
11:17:21 >>MARY MULHERN: We have that first meeting scheduled
11:17:25 with the mayor and to get the advisory committee
11:17:27 updated on that with the finance department.
11:17:29 So as soon as possible, in January.
11:17:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And I believe council, to follow up
11:17:44 on that from what I have seen from e-mail
11:17:46 correspondence, Spencer Kass who attended that
11:17:49 meeting, forward that to T.H.A.N. and to the
11:17:54 membership so the mayor's documents I believe as well.
11:18:09 >> A point of interest.
11:18:10 We had that gentleman here talking about creating

11:18:16 eggs, chickens.
11:18:17 I talked to a gentleman who had a distributorship.
11:18:21 I said, how is business?
11:18:22 He said, pretty good, I sold my business.
11:18:25 California has adopted a rule that you cannot raise
11:18:27 chicken in cages.
11:18:29 They have to be free roaming.
11:18:32 And that's just a point of interest.
11:18:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
11:18:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Last week I brought to your
11:18:39 attention the Cuban club's concerns about the HCC
11:18:42 construction across the street.
11:18:43 We had a very productive meeting with the HCC
11:18:47 administration.
11:18:48 They agreed to stop doing the mode of construction
11:18:51 that was shaping the Cuban club, but most importantly
11:18:54 they actually attended our Barrio meeting the other
11:18:57 day and our legal department is working with them to
11:18:59 convince them that when they build new buildings in
11:19:01 our national landmark historic district they need to
11:19:04 come before the Barrio.
11:19:05 This is very significant because some of the buildings

11:19:08 have nothing to do architecturally with their context
11:19:12 and it's important in maintaining our federal national
11:19:17 landmark district that new construction is compatible.
11:19:20 So this is a real breakthrough.
11:19:22 I want to thank HCC for beginning to see the light and
11:19:25 it's only because of Ybor City strenuous efforts to
11:19:30 get them to recognize this, that they are beginning to
11:19:32 recognize it so I want to thank our legal department
11:19:35 for making the case.
11:19:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I just wanted to say this is your
11:19:40 last meeting of the year.
11:19:41 And that being he had said I just want to express to
11:19:44 each of you my sincere thanks and gratitude for the
11:19:47 ability to serve you this past year and want to wish
11:19:50 each of you a very happy holiday and very healthy and
11:19:53 happy new year.
11:19:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:19:56 All right.
11:19:57 With that being said, we stand in recess until 1:30.
11:20:01

DISCLAIMER:

The preceding represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
transcript.
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.




TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, December 18, 2008
1:30 p.m. session

DISCLAIMER:
The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
transcript.
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.

[Sounding gavel]
13:37:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: City Council will now come to order.
13:37:35 Roll call.
13:37:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:37:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
13:37:42 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
13:37:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
13:37:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
13:37:57 Is Mr. Chip Fletcher here?
13:38:15 How do you want us to proceed?

13:38:17 It's 1:30.
13:38:18 I don't know if you want how you want us to proceed.
13:38:23 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: My understanding is you have other
13:38:24 things on your agenda that you can go forward with
13:38:27 this afternoon.
13:38:29 Councilman Miranda is, I believe, still at the zoo
13:38:33 meeting.
13:38:35 I think he wanted to be here to comment on the sign
13:38:40 agreement.
13:38:40 So we would suggest that you put that last.
13:38:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
13:38:47 Council, we can move to our 1:30 items, to deal with
13:38:54 the two items that were pulled.
13:38:55 We have that situation that's hanging out there as
13:38:58 well.
13:38:58 Yes, sir.
13:38:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I just wanted a
13:39:02 clarification because at the start of today's hearing,
13:39:06 during the approval of the agenda, you had indicated
13:39:08 that you were going to open up the floor for those
13:39:11 people who wished to speak on that particular item,
13:39:15 those two items, on the settlement agreements.

13:39:18 It is obviously 1:30.
13:39:20 The question is, it was I believe council's intention
13:39:26 to take public comments before those items were
13:39:28 discussed.
13:39:28 So the question would be, not knowing what time it
13:39:30 will take place, did you want to take the public
13:39:33 comment now on those two items, or do you want to hold
13:39:36 the public comment till immediately before those two
13:39:38 items?
13:39:39 And therefore those people would have to remain, those
13:39:42 people who came to speak at 1:30.
13:39:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, we said 1:30, and I don't know
13:39:47 whether they want to -- we can take them now if they
13:39:50 want to do that.
13:39:52 I don't have an issue with that.
13:39:53 So we can do that.
13:39:54 Yes.
13:39:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I was the person who brought this
13:39:57 up, remember.
13:39:58 I think it would be most timely to wait until we bring
13:40:01 up those two items.
13:40:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The reaction out there now --

13:40:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Oh, they would rather be heard now?
13:40:08 It's just the other council members aren't here but if
13:40:11 they would rather be heard now.
13:40:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's fine with me.
13:40:16 Two minutes.
13:40:18 You actually have 2 minutes 40 seconds.
13:40:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And Mr. Chair, only the subject of
13:40:25 this public comment is only on the two settlement
13:40:27 agreements relative to the billboards.
13:40:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's correct.
13:40:30 Thank you.
13:40:31 >> Randy baron, 217 west Comanche Avenue.
13:40:37 I appreciate the opportunity to speak now.
13:40:39 Lunch period is only an hour so I have to hurry.
13:40:42 First, I want to thank the billboard companies for
13:40:44 getting back to us.
13:40:46 We expressed a lot of concerns about these agreements
13:40:49 over the past few weeks, once we became aware of them.
13:40:55 Clear channel and CBS did hear our concerns and came
13:40:58 back with some concessions and worry certainly happy
13:41:00 about those concessions.
13:41:01 I think that those concessions are going to help

13:41:04 lessen the impact on residential properties.
13:41:07 Especially the distance increases.
13:41:11 I think it's up to 300 now for a regular billboard and
13:41:15 500 for AP digital billboard.
13:41:18 With respect to the swap rates, they have gone up and
13:41:21 the language has been clarified so it now four to one,
13:41:24 specifically four to one, not sign faces or signs,
13:41:26 it's definitely sign faces.
13:41:28 Obviously, you as City Council have to make the policy
13:41:32 decision whether or not you want to have digital
13:41:33 billboards in the first place.
13:41:36 And that's certainly up to you.
13:41:39 It's going to be an impact on the city, it's a change.
13:41:41 We haven't had them before.
13:41:43 They are outside the city.
13:41:44 And some are more than others, I guess it depends on
13:41:50 the content.
13:41:51 That being said, a four to one swap rate is certainly
13:41:54 better than what was originally, as I figured out, was
13:41:58 three to two.
13:41:59 And it does help for attrition rate to remove the
13:42:05 signs.

13:42:06 A couple other issues still outstanding and I will
13:42:08 just raise them so hopefully they can be addressed by
13:42:11 clear channel and CBS later, is the idea that you are
13:42:15 measuring the distance from residential, from the same
13:42:19 side of the street.
13:42:20 That means on a street like Lois, between Westshore
13:42:22 and I guess it's Boy Scout at that point, where you
13:42:28 have residential on one side of the street, within 300
13:42:33 feet of the other side of the street, you can still
13:42:35 put the billboard up because it's not measured across
13:42:37 the street.
13:42:38 It may be on the same side.
13:42:40 We would certainly prefer it to be a true radius, so
13:42:43 that any residential within 300 feet would not be
13:42:47 subject to the billboard
13:42:51 There's the issue of the trees, who wins.
13:42:53 I guess the trees on city property and it's a grand
13:42:56 tree, the billboard wins.
13:42:58 I don't know how to solve that problem, other than
13:43:00 keep raising the billboard, and there's a height
13:43:02 restriction that was a concession by the billboard
13:43:07 companies.

13:43:07 (Bell sounds)
13:43:10 I have 30 more seconds?
13:43:11 >> Yes, go ahead.
13:43:12 >> And I'll be quick.
13:43:13 The other issues I'm addressing, going forward, if you
13:43:18 have a billboard that's going to come down for purely
13:43:20 business reasons, you lose a lease.
13:43:23 I not profitable.
13:43:25 Currently in this agreement, we would suggest a
13:43:29 provision where the company would have -- if it comes
13:43:32 down for business reasons and not a city reason, that
13:43:34 they would have 180 days or perhaps as long as a year
13:43:37 to relocate that sign.
13:43:38 Otherwise, it falls out of the bank.
13:43:41 That way, there is somewhat of a nutrition rate.
13:43:45 And if they can't find a place inside of a year, then
13:43:47 I suggest the billboards aren't coming back anyway.
13:43:50 So those are our comments.
13:43:52 I look forward to watching the TIVO replay to see how
13:43:57 this ends up.
13:43:59 Thank you very much.
13:43:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Relative to the trees, Mr. Fletcher

13:44:01 and I talked earlier and there's already something
13:44:03 that will address that.
13:44:04 Do you want to speak to that now, or later? Do you
13:44:07 want to speak to that now?
13:44:09 Since he's here, why don't you come speak to that
13:44:11 issue?
13:44:11 >>> Just to clarify that issue, and I understood it
13:44:18 was raised this morning as well.
13:44:20 Again, unfortunately, the Florida legislature doesn't
13:44:23 seem to be a strong friend of trees.
13:44:26 We actually have a statute that requires that we
13:44:30 remove trees that create an impairment on viewing of
13:44:34 the signs, or by them, basically.
13:44:38 It's not quite that direct.
13:44:41 But basically that's what it says.
13:44:42 And so we have actually got in this agreement a
13:44:47 little, I think, a little better protection than state
13:44:50 statute.
13:44:50 But again the legislature has decreed that these
13:44:53 billboards are a property right and they need to be
13:44:56 protected, and the views of the customers need to be
13:45:00 available, and that's basically under chapter 70,

13:45:05 Florida statutes, the outdoor advertising takes
13:45:09 precedence over the trees.
13:45:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Fletcher, since trees grow and
13:45:15 billboards don't, and if we wanted to protect a tree,
13:45:20 could we encourage the company to the billboard at a
13:45:23 greater height or higher -- is there some way to avoid
13:45:27 removing the tree?
13:45:29 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: There is an opportunity for
13:45:30 negotiation on that.
13:45:31 In height restriction, our height limitation in the
13:45:34 agreement, actually have an obligation to move the
13:45:36 billboard up rather than cut down the tree.
13:45:41 So we have made an attempt at that.
13:45:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The other question raised by Mr.
13:45:47 Baron about our signs and the tree and the bank, signs
13:45:52 that are removed forever, out there --
13:45:58 >>> I apologize, I'm having trouble hearing you.
13:46:00 >> I'm sorry.
13:46:01 Signs that are removed because the sign company
13:46:03 removed them, could we have a statute of limitations
13:46:05 instead of having virtual credits?
13:46:09 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Well, the way this agreement is

13:46:11 negotiated --
13:46:13 Let me suggest that we hold those questions, take them
13:46:17 up, okay?
13:46:18 I really want to us hear from the community, from the
13:46:20 public at this time.
13:46:22 Let me just hear from them.
13:46:24 Anyone else from the public want to address council?
13:46:26 And then what we'll do is address the tree issue
13:46:30 because Mr. Baron has to leave.
13:46:33 I didn't know we were getting into a series of
13:46:35 questions.
13:46:35 So I would rather take all the questions up at the
13:46:37 time we bring the item back up, Mr. Baron.
13:46:40 Anyone else want to address council may come forward
13:46:42 at this time.
13:46:44 This is your opportunity.
13:46:45 When we take this up, you won't have opportunity to
13:46:48 speak.
13:46:48 This is your opportunity to speak now.
13:46:50 Anyone else from the public?
13:46:54 Okay.
13:46:55 Thank you very much.

13:46:56 Let's go to our items, and then those other questions,
13:47:02 you will be able to address.
13:47:08 We are going to take up item 82 at this point.
13:47:14 Item 82.
13:47:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open.
13:47:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
13:47:18 (Motion carried).
13:47:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, did you want to swear
13:47:22 witnesses?
13:47:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone that wants to address council at
13:47:24 this time may stand and be sworn.
13:47:26 If you are going to address council on any of these
13:47:28 public hearings, please stand, raise your right hand
13:47:30 and be sworn.
13:47:33 (Oath administered by Clerk)
13:47:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, if I may, I believe
13:47:41 there are some items that need to be received and
13:47:43 filed into the record prior to action which had been
13:47:46 available for public inspection at City Council's
13:47:48 office.
13:47:49 Can that be done by motion?
13:47:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to receive and file.

13:47:53 >> Second.
13:47:54 (Motion carried).
13:47:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Secondly if there are have been any
13:48:00 ex parte communications please disclose that.
13:48:02 City Council policies related to quasi-judicial public
13:48:05 hearings are posted outside.
13:48:07 There is a sign-in sheet for you to sign up if you
13:48:09 intend to speak.
13:48:11 There's a sign to remind you if you have not been
13:48:14 sworn to please do so.
13:48:15 Thank you.
13:48:18 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
13:48:19 I wanted to take just a moment to introduce Eric
13:48:23 Cotton to my left.
13:48:25 He is supervisor in our office.
13:48:27 He's going to be taking over.
13:48:28 We are going to be transitioning from myself to Mr.
13:48:31 Cotton to handle the alcohol through the month of
13:48:35 February.
13:48:35 You will no longer see me doing them.
13:48:37 He will be taking them over.
13:48:39 He's going to present a couple today.

13:48:42 Case V-08-121 is an appeal of a special use, zoning
13:48:56 administrator appeal.
13:48:57 The request was for a 4(COP-R), alcoholic beverage
13:49:00 sales at a location an outparcel to International
13:49:04 Plaza.
13:49:06 If you will note on the atlas, the location is 2205
13:49:09 North Westshore Boulevard.
13:49:10 This is the actual zoning atlas.
13:49:12 You can see this is a large PDA, plan developmental
13:49:16 alternative, Boy Scout.
13:49:21 This is the survey.
13:49:21 It is this location.
13:49:23 Westshore Boulevard to the west is Boy Scout to the
13:49:27 south.
13:49:28 This is the elevation of the site.
13:49:29 It's a restaurant called ocean Prime.
13:49:32 As you can see, it is under construction currently.
13:49:37 Just for your reference, if you are aware of what is
13:49:41 occurring out there, this is the location here and to
13:49:43 the south, there is another building that is almost
13:49:45 complete and ready to open.
13:49:47 It's going to be in that location.

13:49:49 They are requesting a 4(COP-R).
13:49:52 As you may recall, as the code was adopted, you can
13:49:55 process it as a special use 1 for administrative
13:49:59 approval if you moat certain conditions.
13:50:01 The one condition that they are requesting the waiver
13:50:03 to through this appeal is the requirements that they
13:50:06 close it at 12:00 a.m
13:50:09 We did deny this based on them not meeting that
13:50:13 criteria, and it is found inconsistent.
13:50:16 However, you will note as another appeal that we have
13:50:19 stated, page 3 and page 4 and page 5 are the general
13:50:23 standards for special uses for you to consider if you
13:50:26 choose to waive that provision.
13:50:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the waiver request is to 1 a.m.?
13:50:35 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The waiver request is simply as
13:50:37 stated in the staff report that I can see is just a
13:50:39 waiver from the 12 a.m. provision.
13:50:44 I'm sorry, which would leave it at 3 a.m., of course,
13:50:47 because that's the regular code.
13:50:48 3 a.m. is the normal closing time within the city
13:50:51 limits.
13:50:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Don't we have that coming back to us?

13:50:55 Don't we have the two malls coming back?
13:50:57 >> That's a pending code amendment that was privately
13:51:00 initiated.
13:51:00 This is filed under the current code.
13:51:02 Those are the current provisions.
13:51:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you for that clarification.
13:51:12 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
13:51:15 department.
13:51:15 City of police department has no objections.
13:51:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is a public hearing.
13:51:22 Petitioner?
13:51:27 >>> I'm Kathryn O'Donnell, Holland and Knight, here on
13:51:33 behalf of Cameron Mitchell LLC, planning to open ocean
13:51:39 prime on January 22nd and they have other locations.
13:51:42 They are opening one in Orlando.
13:51:44 It's a very sophisticated upscale restaurant that
13:51:46 serves high quality steaks and fish.
13:51:50 This is primarily an upscale location, not a bar type
13:51:54 of situation.
13:51:55 And as Cathy explained, the only waiver that we are
13:51:59 seeking is the 12 a.m. requirement, they would like to
13:52:03 stay open past that to continue serving.

13:52:07 Other than that, I also have Ann Paulic of Tampa
13:52:17 Westshore association.
13:52:18 >> Ann Paulic, 305 South Boulevard, mechanic and
13:52:22 Nuccio, I represent Tampa Westshore associates, the
13:52:24 owner of the mall.
13:52:25 And I just wanted to state that, again, to reiterate,
13:52:30 the type of restaurant that this is, really a fine
13:52:34 dining establishment, that the mall thinks will add to
13:52:37 the high quality of International Plaza as it is at
13:52:39 this point and also will be a real benefit and add a
13:52:43 real nice addition to the City of Tampa's restaurants,
13:52:46 and that we would request that you grant this
13:52:49 4(COP-R).
13:52:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: How late will you really be open?
13:52:59 >> We prefer not to have any additional restrictions
13:53:03 imposed.
13:53:08 I think 2 a.m. would probably be okay.
13:53:12 But the preference is to just leave it open ended in
13:53:14 case they want to have any type of special event.
13:53:17 I think typically it would not stay open that late.
13:53:21 They kind of just do it based on who stay as round.
13:53:24 They stop serving din area round 11, 12:00 range.

13:53:28 But typically in other locations they'll stay open
13:53:31 later.
13:53:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The current code, correct me if I am
13:53:39 wrong, it's 3 a.m., right?
13:53:43 Required to close at 3 a.m.
13:53:45 >> I would like to ask Ms. Paulic what time the other
13:53:50 restaurants at Westshore close.
13:53:52 >> It's my understanding most of them generally do not
13:53:55 stay open much past midnight.
13:53:57 I know the bars may stay open more regularly, though I
13:54:01 don't have those hours on me.
13:54:02 But in general the idea is to be -- to have it more
13:54:06 open-ended, for special events on certain days, and as
13:54:13 Ms. O'Donnell spoke to, just allowing patrons who want
13:54:16 to stay late to be there.
13:54:18 So I think most of the approval that I'm aware of at
13:54:23 international do not have any limitation on the hours.
13:54:26 But I don't believe that for the most part they are
13:54:31 open till three.
13:54:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Palm and Maggiano's.
13:54:37 >> That is at Westshore.
13:54:38 >> Oh, I'm sorry.

13:54:39 >>> At international, it's my understanding there
13:54:44 aren't limitations.
13:54:45 But there never has been a problem at international.
13:54:48 And the mall, the ownership of the mall really takes
13:54:53 good care in trying to maintain tenants there who are
13:54:57 going to keep the place in a good condition and not
13:55:01 cause problems.
13:55:02 And that's why we really think having Cameron Mitchell
13:55:06 restaurants come in will be really nicely done.
13:55:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
13:55:12 It's a public hearing.
13:55:13 Any other questions?
13:55:14 This is a public hearing.
13:55:16 Anyone wishing to address council on this item.
13:55:18 Anyone wish to address council?
13:55:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
13:55:21 >> Second.
13:55:21 (Motion carried)
13:55:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What's your pleasure?
13:55:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, council.
13:55:29 I just want to be -- and please, miss Kert or Mrs.
13:55:34 Coyle, if I say anything incorrect please correct me.

13:55:37 My understanding was this was a process that council
13:55:39 set up to allow these to be granted administratively,
13:55:41 assuming they comply with certain a.
13:55:44 One of the guidelines being that they close at
13:55:45 midnight.
13:55:47 Then they also have an opportunity to ask for a waiver
13:55:50 from City Council, which is what they are doing today.
13:55:53 My suggestion, council, is that because this has been
13:55:57 set up in statue, if it is council's pleasure waive
13:56:04 this, in order to not set a precedent -- because if
13:56:07 you do it without any sort of reason that anybody who
13:56:09 comes in here and asks for a waiver would have an
13:56:12 equal protection argument as to why you grant it for
13:56:15 one but not for the other.
13:56:16 So my suggestion is looking at the criteria that Ms.
13:56:19 Coyle did make reference to, should it be your desire
13:56:25 to grant the waiver so do you not put yourself in a
13:56:27 position of having created a precedence that forces
13:56:30 your hand in future zonings, okay?
13:56:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm not going to be able to support
13:56:40 the proposal in its current form being open till 3
13:56:42 a.m.

13:56:43 We discussed the change to the code last time, we had
13:56:46 neighborhood people in here speaking at length about
13:56:48 being concerned about the neighborhoods that heir
13:56:52 impacted, Westshore, Lois, when they leave late.
13:56:58 If they stop serving food at eleven, what they are
13:57:01 doing after eleven is just drinking, and that's really
13:57:05 not good for driving home through the neighborhoods so
13:57:06 I won't be able to support this, unless the petitioner
13:57:09 wanted to come back and commit to a closing of 1:00.
13:57:16 >>GWEN MILLER: I think when the neighbors were here
13:57:17 they were talking about Westshore.
13:57:19 They did not mention international mall, because
13:57:21 there's no neighborhoods near international mall.
13:57:27 But it's so far away, and they say there was no
13:57:29 problem with international.
13:57:30 That's why they are bringing it back because of the
13:57:32 Westshore mall.
13:57:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
13:57:37 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mitchell restaurants, are they
13:57:40 affiliated with the Mitchell seafood at Westshore?
13:57:44 >>> Yes, they are operating that restaurant until
13:57:46 February of this year.

13:57:54 They were operating that restaurant until February of
13:57:56 this year when it was sold to Ruth Chris.
13:58:01 They were operating about two years there. It's a
13:58:03 similar type of operation.
13:58:04 >> It's the same principle?
13:58:07 >>> Yes.
13:58:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Okay.
13:58:09 I could support something like this, because in
13:58:12 today's economy, for somebody that's going to spend
13:58:16 probably $3 million putting this building up, I cannot
13:58:21 see not supporting it.
13:58:23 If you want to support the small business.
13:58:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We can support it based on the site
13:58:30 that it would not impact the neighborhoods, is what I
13:58:32 am hearing, would not have any impact on surrounding
13:58:35 neighborhoods, and the distance requirement.
13:58:38 So with that, I don't see that would ab problem.
13:58:42 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Just to be clear, if you look at
13:58:45 page three of the staff report, that's the beginning
13:58:47 of the general standard criteria, the first being that
13:58:50 it is going to ensure the continuation of public
13:58:53 health, safety, welfare.

13:58:55 Number three is typically what council tends to focus
13:58:57 on is the use compatible and with surrounding property
13:59:02 being the mall parking lot as an outparcel, and number
13:59:05 five, the use will not establish a precedent or
13:59:08 encourage more intensive use.
13:59:09 I think the testimony by the applicant related that.
13:59:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So that would be included in the
13:59:15 motion.
13:59:16 Okay.
13:59:16 >>GWEN MILLER: I move an ordinance approving a special
13:59:19 use permit S-1 on appeal from the decision of the
13:59:23 zoning administrator allowing the restaurant closing
13:59:27 later than 12 a.m. making lawful the sale of beverages
13:59:30 containing alcohol regardless of alcoholic content,
13:59:32 beer, wine and liquor, 4(COP-R), for consumption on
13:59:36 premises only in connection with a restaurant business
13:59:38 establishment at or from that certain lot, plot or
13:59:42 tract of land located at 2205 North Westshore
13:59:45 Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly
13:59:47 described in section 1 hereof, approving the waivers
13:59:50 as set forth herein, providing an effective date, and
13:59:54 those items that Ms. Coyle states will be put in here.

13:59:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, then what you are saying
13:59:59 with regard to what Ms. Coyle said, those are findings
14:00:02 of fact by the City Council?
14:00:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
14:00:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
14:00:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second.
14:00:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: City Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
14:00:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14:00:11 I will not be supporting this petition because I
14:00:13 believe that the late hours indicate that people for
14:00:18 the last two or three hours at the restaurant is open
14:00:20 will only be drinking, and then they will be driving
14:00:23 potentially through Carver City and Lincoln Gardens,
14:00:27 on Lois and on Westshore.
14:00:30 And I just am concerned that it will negatively impact
14:00:33 the neighborhood.
14:00:34 I feel like if they closed at one that's a more
14:00:36 reasonable hour to close.
14:00:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's a motion, been moved and
14:00:41 seconded by councilman Caetano. All in favor.
14:00:48 Opposes?
14:00:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Nay.

14:00:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Nay.
14:00:54 >>THE CLERK: The motion failed with Saul-Sena, Mulhern
14:00:59 and Dingfelder voting no.
14:01:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Under council rules that requires
14:01:05 four votes to take action.
14:01:07 So under council's rule, 4-C, I believe, it would
14:01:11 return at the next regular meeting, unless council
14:01:14 wishes to waive the rule and hold it until Mr. Miranda
14:01:17 gets here.
14:01:18 Otherwise, it would take --
14:01:20 >>GWEN MILLER: I make a motion to waive the rule until
14:01:22 Mr. Miranda gets here.
14:01:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
14:01:29 Now speak to your motion.
14:01:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would welcome the petitioner
14:01:33 coming back with an amended request perhaps for a
14:01:36 little lesser span of hours.
14:01:38 So I wonder if that could be what comes back to us.
14:01:45 >>> As I said earlier, it would be open -- the
14:01:52 preference was --
14:01:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The request was 2:00?
14:02:06 >>> Yes.

14:02:12 >>MARY MULHERN: You're saying 2:00?
14:02:14 >> That's what she said earlier.
14:02:16 >> I thought you said 1:00.
14:02:20 >>> Or say 1:30.
14:02:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 1:30?
14:02:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, could we -- there's a motion
14:02:32 on the floor to continue it till Mr. Miranda gets
14:02:34 here.
14:02:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the issue now is, we have a
14:02:39 motion on the floor.
14:02:40 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion to waive the rules and
14:02:44 wait till Mr. Miranda gets here and vote again.
14:02:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And there was a second to that?
14:02:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Caetano.
14:02:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion on the floor.
14:02:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to speak to the
14:02:56 motion.
14:02:56 I think it would be more expeditious to go ahead and
14:02:58 vote now on whether 1:30.
14:03:02 The petitioner would rather have us vote on 1:30?
14:03:08 >>CHAIRMAN: Do you want to wait till Mr. Miranda
14:03:10 comes?

14:03:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What is the time?
14:03:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 3:00 and wants 1:30.
14:03:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you want to us go ahead and vote on
14:03:18 the 1:30 time frame or wait for Mr. Miranda?
14:03:21 What would you like?
14:03:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Obviously, council, it would require,
14:03:34 I believe -- what do you have there?
14:03:36 >>> It sounds like that's more amenable, the hours we
14:03:40 are looking for.
14:03:41 So I would rather go ahead with that.
14:03:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move forward to 1:30?
14:03:46 >>> Uh-huh.
14:03:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's a motion on the floor.
14:03:48 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:03:53 As the motion is stated, if you could just add in that
14:03:55 that be placed on the site plan, that condition be
14:03:58 placed on the site plan between first and second
14:04:00 reading.
14:04:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion on the floor.
14:04:04 >>MARY MULHERN: Cathy, I wanted to catch you before
14:04:06 you left.
14:04:07 I have a note, the agenda that we needed to correct

14:04:13 the title on.
14:04:14 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I'm not aware of that.
14:04:19 >>REBECCA KERT: The ordinance is correct.
14:04:20 It was listed on your agenda as an S-2 when it really
14:04:24 an S-1.
14:04:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion on the floor is to waive
14:04:34 the rules and hold it till Mr. Miranda comes.
14:04:37 It's been moved and seconded.
14:04:38 All in favor of that motion signify by saying Aye.
14:04:41 Opposes?
14:04:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There was a better motion.
14:04:48 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and
14:04:51 Saul-Sena voting no.
14:04:52 >>MARY MULHERN: I voted no, too.
14:04:54 >>THE CLERK: Also Mulhern.
14:04:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I am going to vote with them so it
14:04:59 gives her, if that's what she wants, that's fine.
14:05:01 I would have supported waiting.
14:05:03 But that's fine.
14:05:04 So the motion will pass, all right?
14:05:08 I'm sorry, the motion failed.
14:05:09 The motion failed.

14:05:13 So now we are back to the 1:30.
14:05:18 >> I make a motion we approve what's before us with
14:05:20 the site plan to 1:30.
14:05:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All we are doing is killing small
14:05:27 business coming into this city, okay?
14:05:29 I know.
14:05:30 Believe me.
14:05:31 Small businesses are suffering.
14:05:33 They are suffering bad because of the economy.
14:05:36 And we need to open up our eyes, because these people
14:05:40 are probably going to spend three to four million
14:05:42 dollars on that building.
14:05:44 They have got to wake up.
14:05:46 People have an agenda on this council.
14:05:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right, Mr. Caetano.
14:05:52 Now, let me just say, Mr. Caetano, per that, the
14:05:56 petitioner wanted us to move for the 1:30.
14:06:02 So I'm honoring her request.
14:06:05 If she wanted to wait for 4:00 I would have supported
14:06:08 the 3:00 time frame.
14:06:09 But because petitioner wanted to move forward, it's
14:06:12 fine with me.

14:06:13 So I just want to state my position.
14:06:16 Okay.
14:06:16 So the motion, you made the motion for 1:30.
14:06:20 Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
14:06:23 All in favor of with the changes added onto, the
14:06:30 changes added between first and second reading, right?
14:06:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It will require a reading of the
14:06:36 ordinance prior to first reading, by title only.
14:06:40 >> Move an ordinance approving a special use permit
14:06:42 S-1 on appeal from the zoning administrator allowing
14:06:46 S-1 closing hour to be later than 12 a.m. to sell
14:06:50 alcoholic beverages beer, wine and liquor for
14:06:54 consumption on premises only in connection with a
14:06:56 restaurant business establishment at or from that
14:06:58 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 2205 N.
14:07:01 Westshore Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, approving waivers
14:07:07 set forth herein providing an effective date.
14:07:08 >> It's moved and seconded.
14:07:08 >> I have a question. At the second reading, can that
14:07:08 be changed?
14:07:08 >> No, I believe not because it would make it more
14:07:08 expansive.

14:07:08 >> Actually, at this point they amended their request
14:07:08 to be 1:30. So you cannot make that change at second
14:07:08 reading.
14:07:08 (Motion carried.)
14:07:08 >> Clerk: Motion carried with Miranda being absent at
14:07:08 vote.
14:08:03 >> Okay, 14 and 17.
14:08:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't want to belabor this.
14:08:13 I talked with staff at lunch time, appreciate
14:08:16 council's dealing with that.
14:08:19 So I'll go ahead and approve items 14 and 17.
14:08:23 And then I got one more motion after that.
14:08:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena for
14:08:32 item 14 and 17.
14:08:34 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:08:36 Opposes?
14:08:37 Okay.
14:08:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Then as related to item 14, I would
14:08:40 like to get a verbal report from staff.
14:08:44 This was related to the garbage trucks.
14:08:48 On the efforts by the city staff to get more money for
14:08:52 the used garbage trucks including the possibility of

14:08:55 using a truck -- give thaws report in six months
14:08:59 verbally back hear to council.
14:09:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
14:09:05 Yes.
14:09:05 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I think Mr.
14:09:10 Spearman's department should put these trucks on the
14:09:14 GOVdeals dot net, put a minimum price.
14:09:20 They can get more than $9,000 for those vehicles.
14:09:23 All they are going to do is get rid of one person on
14:09:25 each truck at $30,000 a year.
14:09:28 That's all they are saving.
14:09:30 >> My motion is to get a report back on all the
14:09:38 efforts they can use including the one you just
14:09:40 mentioned, Mr. Caetano and the possibility of using a
14:09:43 truck record to get rid of these.
14:09:51 >> And that will be putting it on GOV deals dot net.
14:09:57 >> With the possibility of what Mr. Caetano suggested.
14:10:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Not to be the bearer of bad news but
14:10:03 I'm sure with regard to your role as legislators you
14:10:07 can make these requests of the administration.
14:10:10 But how and how they administer the city but there is
14:10:15 no obligation other than to make inquiry back and what

14:10:19 report back what their ultimate findings are.
14:10:22 So the charter is clear.
14:10:25 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The administrator told me they
14:10:27 are getting more money on GOVdeals dot net than they
14:10:30 were at the auction house so let's try it again.
14:10:33 >>GWEN MILLER: It seems like the administration
14:10:39 doesn't know what he's doing.
14:10:41 But give the man an opportunity to do what he needs to
14:10:44 do. Let him do his job.
14:10:45 And you all come up with all these suggestions, and
14:10:48 you get more money and do.
14:10:49 This you don't know unless you try.
14:10:51 Don't tell him what he can do and what he can't do.
14:10:54 Give him an opportunity to do his job.
14:10:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, madam co-chair.
14:11:01 If I could respond.
14:11:02 That's exactly what the intent of my motion is.
14:11:04 I think I worked very closely and cordially with all
14:11:07 these guys on staff.
14:11:08 And that's why I said, take six months and see how you
14:11:11 can do.
14:11:12 If they can't do better then they'll come back and

14:11:14 tell us. If they did better, fine. If they can't,
14:11:17 then that's fine, too.
14:11:18 I don't think eights very heavy handed motion.
14:11:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And under the charter so we are all
14:11:24 clear again, under the charter, we can only request.
14:11:28 And so they don't have to honor that request.
14:11:34 So under the charter.
14:11:36 Okay.
14:11:37 There's a motion on the floor.
14:11:38 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:11:41 Opposes?
14:11:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Item 17 we didn't get into and I
14:11:45 won't get into.
14:11:47 A single bidder for a $15 million purchase of liquid
14:11:50 ferric sulfate which Mr. Barrett uses to make our
14:11:57 water as nice as possible.
14:12:04 At the water plant.
14:12:05 The thing that concerns me it's a single bidder.
14:12:09 We have had that in the past.
14:12:10 There's just one company that's willing to come down
14:12:13 to Florida to sell this product.
14:12:15 But it's a huge contract.

14:12:16 I mean, it's a $7 million mall a year, and I have just
14:12:23 been -- amazed that manufacturers especially in this
14:12:27 economic climate wouldn't be coming to Florida to do
14:12:29 this.
14:12:30 Because it's not a complicated chemical process.
14:12:35 Anyway with, that said, I'm going to ask for the same
14:12:38 kind of report, six months from now, a verbal report,
14:12:40 from staff, on all their efforts to obtain additional
14:12:44 bidders for the liquid FERRIC sulfate product.
14:12:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Caetano.
14:12:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Baird, could I ask you a
14:12:56 question?
14:12:57 Did you get a bid from a company here in Tampa?
14:13:00 >>> It's a question for Mr. Spearman.
14:13:03 I.
14:13:05 >> They are out of Bartow.
14:13:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I know they are out of heart
14:13:09 forward but there's a company that does that and I
14:13:11 know where she lives and she's in that business.
14:13:14 >> Greg Spearman, Director of parks and rec.
14:13:17 We did receive a letter from Agra Iron.
14:13:19 They intend to build a plant here in Tampa.

14:13:22 They gave us a letter, was dated November 3rd.
14:13:25 They are very interested in providing this particular
14:13:27 chemical to the city, they don't have a location yet
14:13:30 or site.
14:13:31 But as soon as they get up and running.
14:13:35 >> You didn't get a bid from anybody in the City of
14:13:37 Tampa?
14:13:38 >> No, we did not.
14:13:39 But we do have a letter from someone locally that said
14:13:42 they would like to supply the chemical once they have
14:13:45 the plant built and in operation.
14:13:46 >>
14:13:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The good news is there's a 30-day
14:13:51 out clause so when Mr. Baird and Mr. Spearman find
14:13:55 there is competition we can always get out of the
14:13:57 contract and bid it again.
14:14:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A real quick comment to Mr.
14:14:03 Spearman.
14:14:04 I spoke to the Tampa General Hospital purchasing
14:14:07 person.
14:14:07 They are now factoring in doing business with local
14:14:10 businesses in order to reduce the carbon footprint of

14:14:15 getting goods here.
14:14:16 And I hope that when you come back to us in January or
14:14:19 February to discuss doing business with local
14:14:21 businesses, you will talk to the person and give you
14:14:23 their contact info, and that can be part of our
14:14:26 thinking in the future.
14:14:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion on the floor.
14:14:30 All in favor?
14:14:33 Is.
14:14:34 >> Who seconded?
14:14:36 >> Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
14:14:37 All in favor say Aye.
14:14:38 Opposes?
14:14:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, staff.
14:14:41 Thank you, council.
14:14:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 83.
14:14:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open.
14:14:46 >> Second.
14:14:47 (Motion carried).
14:14:47 >>ERIC COTTON: Land Development Coordination.
14:14:51 This is a request, V 08-133, a request from Taqueria
14:14:57 and Burrito Joint at the corner of Azeele and South

14:15:01 Howard, for a 4(COP-X).
14:15:06 You notice on the map it is for an X which will be for
14:15:11 consumption of alcoholic, beer and wine open premises
14:15:16 only without the percentage requirement of the "R"
14:15:20 zoning.
14:15:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What do they currently have?
14:15:23 >> A 2(COP) which is beer and wine.
14:15:29 The DRC reviewed it, found it consistent with the land
14:15:33 development regulation.
14:15:34 They are asking for five waivers, one for existing
14:15:39 conditions, to include the existing dumpster, keep it
14:15:44 the way it is, allow solid waste in the right-of-way,
14:15:48 reduce from 13 spaces to 10 spaces and reduce for
14:15:54 selling alcohol and for residential from 1,000 feet
14:15:57 down to 119 for alcoholic beverages down to 84
14:16:01 residential zoning districts.
14:16:06 Again this is for consumption for consumption on
14:16:12 premises only, at the corner of Azeele and Howard.
14:16:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer Miller?
14:16:24 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
14:16:28 department.
14:16:29 I have been sworn.

14:16:30 There are no objections by City of Tampa police
14:16:32 department on this petition.
14:16:34 I do want to mention on my report I did make mention
14:16:37 that the Oscawana homeowners association had concerns
14:16:43 and they bring those issues up to you today.
14:16:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question by staff before
14:16:50 petitioner.
14:16:52 On the second page of the report it shows the
14:16:54 establishments within a thousand feet.
14:16:59 But the one across the street, it says Cappy's.
14:17:04 Cappy's is no longer there for the past couple years.
14:17:08 There's something there now instead of Cappy's.
14:17:17 >> Cheap.
14:17:19 >> And did Cheap take over what Cappy's had?
14:17:24 >> Good afternoon, council.
14:17:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name and address.
14:17:31 >> My name is Tom Ortiz, 2208 west Azeele street,
14:17:36 owner of Taqueria and Burrito restaurant, here today
14:17:41 on the requested zoning change from 2(COP) to
14:17:45 4(COP-X).
14:17:46 Forgive me, I'm not a great public speaker here.
14:17:51 I first want to thank all of our neighbors in our

14:17:54 community.
14:17:54 I know that they have endured such growing pains in
14:17:58 their neighborhood to step into the 21st century.
14:18:01 While much of the challenges have not been of their
14:18:03 own causing, they have still been willing to sit down
14:18:05 and have tough conversations about finding solutions
14:18:07 that work for both residents as well as the local
14:18:10 businesses.
14:18:11 Because of this, I believe and always have believed
14:18:14 our community, Howard through Platt, will become the
14:18:16 Sunset Strip, the Grove, or even the Soho of New York
14:18:20 in Tampa.
14:18:21 For residential and businesses will thrive together to
14:18:24 build unique, happy, harmonious environment that
14:18:28 locals and visitors will love to work, play and live.
14:18:32 I would like to thank you as council.
14:18:34 I know that you have had to deal with some careful
14:18:36 considerations to our neighborhood and facing tough
14:18:39 issues and it's a very delicate balancing act, but
14:18:42 through your support we have helped to keep it going
14:18:45 in the right direction.
14:18:47 I would like to first take an opportunity to introduce

14:18:51 myself to some of the new council members.
14:18:52 I'm a graduate and Tampa native, graduate of Jefferson
14:18:56 high school, started in the hospitality business
14:19:00 selling Cokes at Tampa stadium at the age of 12, moved
14:19:04 to Washington dishes at the age of 14, at that young
14:19:07 age I knew this was the business I wanted to be in.
14:19:09 I had hi my first ownership opportunity at the age of
14:19:13 22 in the Hideaway Lounge on Howard Avenue.
14:19:16 In 1996 I opened the Hyde Park cafe and am very proud
14:19:20 to say that we will turn 13 this new year's eve.
14:19:23 Two years ago I had the pleasure of embarking
14:19:25 specifically into the restaurant business.
14:19:27 We purchased the Taqueria, and I'm also proud to know
14:19:36 that cheap was voted one of the bay area's top ten
14:19:39 restaurants of 07 by Tampa Tribune.
14:19:41 We intend on taking the Taqueria to such great
14:19:44 Heights.
14:19:45 I have a little informational packet here I would like
14:19:47 to give to council, if I could, while I present
14:19:49 myself.
14:20:01 >> A little history of the occupied. If you are not
14:20:05 familiar with our neighborhood Taqueria is at the

14:20:11 corner of Howard and Azeele.
14:20:15 It's an old filling station and I believe has been a
14:20:17 restaurant now for 25-plus years.
14:20:19 From an ice cream shop to seafood to gourmet shop and
14:20:24 became a Taqueria in 1994.
14:20:27 It was the brain child of Jonathan AGRI.
14:20:32 The concept basically means fast food cooked to order.
14:20:37 There are -- you place your order at the counter and
14:20:41 given your beverage and a number at the table of your
14:20:44 choice and then we bring the food order to you.
14:20:46 The challenge is that the price point is higher than a
14:20:49 traditional fast food restaurant but being a little
14:20:53 less than a traditional food service restaurant, but
14:20:56 not being able to offer the services of a full service
14:20:59 restaurant it sometimes appears a bit more expensive
14:21:01 for what you are receiving.
14:21:03 When we first took over the Taqueria it was in
14:21:06 desperate need of a general facility overhaul.
14:21:09 We cleaned the facility inside and out and Spruced up
14:21:12 considerably.
14:21:13 We upgraded services and equipment. But the single
14:21:17 improvement we did was the revamping of the menu.

14:21:21 And I have the menu inside your packet so you can see
14:21:24 what we offer currently.
14:21:26 We brought in one of the renowned chefs in the area,
14:21:30 Rudy Padosha, of Labrado and Sangrios, he now oversees
14:21:41 all five of our kitchens in Hyde Park.
14:21:44 Taqueria cheap which has full kitchens as well as Hyde
14:21:47 Park cafe.
14:21:53 Loonies is one of the best chefs and most passionate
14:21:56 persons that I No. they are native of Mexico.
14:22:02 Prior to them coming on board with us they were the
14:22:05 kitchen team who over five years managed the former
14:22:08 restaurant cafe ANA on Westshore Boulevard.
14:22:11 Together with chef Pedrossa they helped to retool and
14:22:15 expand the Taqueria menu to what it is today. We have
14:22:20 over 50 menu items from breakfast to dinners, all
14:22:23 items authentic American classics cooked to order
14:22:27 using the freshest ingredients possible.
14:22:30 Our new game plan is quite simple.
14:22:32 We want to evolve the Taqueria into a full service
14:22:37 restaurant and bring in more team members to be able
14:22:39 to provide them with better compensation and wages.
14:22:41 We want to continue to make our neighborhood proud of

14:22:43 having us a part of it.
14:22:45 We want people to come from all over to experience one
14:22:49 of Hyde Park cafe home grown goodies.
14:22:53 We want Taqueria choices for fresh exciting Mexican
14:22:58 food.
14:22:59 The zoning change is vital to making our new game plan
14:23:02 successful.
14:23:02 We need to be competitive.
14:23:04 We need to be able to offer our guests traditional
14:23:06 Mexican food and traditional Mexican beverages.
14:23:09 We need to be able to provide more opportunities for
14:23:11 our current team members and to help those who are
14:23:14 looking for a great -- get a job where they can
14:23:17 actually live and make a living wage.
14:23:20 Currently Taqueria is zoned 2(COP).
14:23:23 We are seeking a zoning change to 4(COP).
14:23:26 X.
14:23:27 The reason versus a 4(COP-R) is because we are
14:23:30 concerned that sales of alcoholic beverages will add
14:23:34 up to more than the sale of our food due to the great
14:23:37 value we sell our food for.
14:23:39 For example, a burrito is sold for 4.99.

14:23:42 A guest drinks two beers for $4 totaling 8:00.
14:23:46 The food to beverage ratio would be 38 to 62%.
14:23:49 This is a typical customer scenario. And when that
14:23:54 happens many times over it may prevent us from meeting
14:23:56 the 49-51 ratio. When we start to sell more premium
14:24:00 beverages such as Margaritas the ratio could be even
14:24:04 more eschewed.
14:24:05 The other challenge is because our sizable portions
14:24:08 our guests typically do not order more than one item
14:24:11 on their main dish.
14:24:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me stop you there.
14:24:14 Is there anyone here in opposition?
14:24:16 Okay, all right.
14:24:18 Continue on.
14:24:24 >>> Okay.
14:24:24 You broke my train of thought.
14:24:27 No, sorry.
14:24:28 Thank you.
14:24:28 The other challenge is because of our sizable portion
14:24:31 a guest typically orders one item.
14:24:33 Due to our price point and the fact that we offer free
14:24:36 refill on chips the cost is negligible.

14:24:40 The only concern addressed that I know of to City
14:24:42 Council was the parking.
14:24:45 Two years ago I came before council at the cheap
14:24:48 location, we were requesting a 4(COP-X) at the top
14:24:51 floor.
14:24:53 We told you at that time that we had secured over 700
14:24:56 parking spaces in the neighborhood.
14:24:58 No one really believed us at that time until Jim Reese
14:25:01 came out and walked space by space and looked at every
14:25:04 parking space that we had.
14:25:05 Today, we currently own or operate 31 properties in
14:25:09 Hyde Park, which now our capable of parking over 953
14:25:15 cars.
14:25:16 Those properties span from Howard and Swann north to
14:25:19 Kennedy and north Bay Street, west on Packwood and
14:25:22 Cleveland.
14:25:24 In closing, I have walked the streets of my
14:25:26 neighborhood for the past 17 years of my life.
14:25:28 I am both proud and humble to have the opportunity to
14:25:31 be part of the growth of this neighborhood and I'm
14:25:33 particularly proud of the opportunities that we have
14:25:35 with the Taqueria, first by saving the restaurant from

14:25:40 demolition from a developer who was bidding against us
14:25:40 to put another multi-use building in its place, to
14:25:47 improving the restaurant's food quality, service and
14:25:47 atmosphere.
14:25:48 We are requesting the opportunity to provide more for
14:25:52 our team and guests and humbly request your support.
14:25:56 I have over 200 petitions that were signed by both our
14:25:59 neighbors and visiting guests that I would like to
14:26:01 submit that are in favor of our rezoning.
14:26:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Just leave it there.
14:26:10 >>> I would be happy to answer any questions or
14:26:12 address any concerns from counsel or anybody in the
14:26:14 audience who is in opposition.
14:26:17 If you see there, I submitted a letter that we sent
14:26:20 out to all of our neighbors, over 500 neighbors in the
14:26:22 community.
14:26:25 Than explains exactly what we were requesting.
14:26:28 And we had two open houses where they were invited to
14:26:32 come out and address their concerns so that we could
14:26:34 make sure that we answered any and all questions.
14:26:37 No one came in opposition.
14:26:39 Only support, what you have there, the petitions that

14:26:43 were signed.
14:26:46 Yes, ma'am.
14:26:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Finished with your presentation?
14:26:55 >> I did.
14:26:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Question by council.
14:26:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My question is, how close are you
14:27:00 to residential uses?
14:27:01 >> I am adjacent to residential uses.
14:27:03 In fact, there's only an alleyway that separates me
14:27:07 from some quads behind me.
14:27:09 And as Walter Crumbley who is in the audience today
14:27:12 will attest the gentleman Mr. Maynard who lives
14:27:15 directly behind me came to one of our open houses and
14:27:17 said that we had improved the community by 1,000
14:27:22 times.
14:27:23 Both him and his wife signed the petition because we
14:27:25 took the Taqueria from what it was and made it what it
14:27:28 is today.
14:27:29 So I completely understand the concerns of the
14:27:32 neighborhood.
14:27:32 But we went door to door.
14:27:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

14:27:35 You answered the questions.
14:27:36 Other questions?
14:27:38 Councilman Dingfelder.
14:27:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When did you acquire Taqueria?
14:27:44 >> June of '07.
14:27:47 >> Are you changing the footprint of that building?
14:27:51 >>> No, sir.
14:27:52 In fact, it didn't even have a bar.
14:27:56 It is basically a beverage kitchen.
14:27:59 It came out of California.
14:28:01 It's called CABOS.
14:28:03 They have only a thousand square feet.
14:28:05 Basically what they do is they utilize a small kitchen
14:28:07 which is our TIKI bar currently, would turn it into an
14:28:11 enclosed kitchen with an opening on one side, service
14:28:14 only.
14:28:14 So there is no bars in there, there's no bar seating.
14:28:17 It's completely service.
14:28:20 We have no bar at all in this location.
14:28:22 >> So you are changing the footprint by increasing the
14:28:25 size of the kitchen.
14:28:25 >> No, sir.

14:28:27 Currently we have a TIKI bar that is outside.
14:28:30 If you look at the picture, the first --
14:28:32 >> It's upside down.
14:28:33 >>> I'm sorry.
14:28:36 If you look to the left over here, on the drawing, I
14:28:41 gave awe new pamphlet, there's an existing TIKI bar.
14:28:45 We are turning that basically to beer and wine TIKI
14:28:48 bar and turning it into a full-service basically
14:28:54 liquor service bar only but there's no seating,
14:28:56 there's nothing but service.
14:28:59 >> And you are saying that it not to go off premises?
14:29:06 >> No, sir, not at all.
14:29:10 Currently it is.
14:29:11 >> How are you going to keep people from going off
14:29:14 premises?
14:29:14 >> Oh, we employ hosts at all of our entrances and
14:29:18 exists.
14:29:18 We have an incredible staff, at all of our locations,
14:29:22 every point of entry is secured by a host or hostess,
14:29:25 whether will be a greeter or whether it be a security
14:29:28 host that works there to support the parking lots and
14:29:31 so forth.

14:29:33 I think that's one of the reasons why I think we have
14:29:36 gotten the support that we have, is because two years
14:29:38 ago, when we first came to this part of the
14:29:41 neighborhood, people were concerned because they
14:29:43 didn't know us.
14:29:44 >> Why don't you try an R?
14:29:47 As you know more than anybody else, this council has
14:29:49 been encouraging everybody up and down Soho to go with
14:29:52 an R designation.
14:29:54 And when they didn't, we either turned them down or
14:29:57 did something else.
14:30:00 Why don't you try the "R" and see how that works for
14:30:04 you before you go to the X?
14:30:06 Because I bet if you said you would go with the "R"
14:30:09 right now there they're probably wouldn't be any
14:30:11 opposition.
14:30:11 That would be a guess.
14:30:15 >>> I would be happy to go with the "R."
14:30:18 All we have tried to do is try and prove ourselves
14:30:20 over and over.
14:30:21 And I'm willing to do that, because we are about the
14:30:25 neighborhood.

14:30:25 >> So you would be okay with the "R" today?
14:30:28 >>> Yes, sir, we would.
14:30:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Members of the public, those who are
14:30:35 in support line up.
14:30:36 Those in opposition on the other wall.
14:30:39 If you are going to speak, those in opposition, line
14:30:46 up to -- support on the right, and the opposition to
14:30:50 my left.
14:30:51 Okay?
14:30:52 If you oppose the petition, to my left.
14:30:56 If you are supporting the petition to my right.
14:31:01 >>> Walter Crumbley, president of the Courier City
14:31:04 Oscawana homeowners association.
14:31:06 And I'm here of course in my official capacity.
14:31:12 The neighborhood consensus, and that of the officers,
14:31:17 not 100 percent, but three quarters, 75% of the
14:31:20 officers are in favor of the change.
14:31:26 And I would give you some of the background on that,
14:31:30 over the past year or so, of course, I have been the
14:31:32 president, and we found that Mr. Ortiz has been very,
14:31:36 very helpful to the neighborhood in terms of helping
14:31:39 us to get the parking ordinance through.

14:31:42 He's also been helpful in giving us a place to have
14:31:46 our meetings, and is generally sympathetic and seems
14:31:49 to appreciate the problems that we have in our
14:31:52 neighborhood as a result of all the bars and traffic.
14:31:57 And I would say that he is the only one that's ever
14:32:01 demonstrated any concern about what bothers us.
14:32:08 That said, let me say personally that I would ask that
14:32:14 you carefully consider the waivers he's asked for, you
14:32:18 know, the variety majority I think of people in the
14:32:23 neighborhood are in favor of the changes that he's
14:32:25 asked for, and so that's basically our position.
14:32:31 Yes, sir.
14:32:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If you are finished then I will give
14:32:36 an opportunity for the next question.
14:32:38 >>> Okay, I'm finished.
14:32:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Crumbley.
14:32:42 I think the neighborhood would probably prefer the "R"
14:32:44 designation as a restaurant as opposed to the "X."
14:32:48 Is that -- I mean, considering the history of the
14:32:51 neighborhood coming down and saying we would rather
14:32:54 have "R," I think that would be consistent.
14:32:57 >>> Yes, sir, I think that would be that.

14:32:59 Of course realize that I'm speaking just for what I
14:33:02 gathered from the people in the past.
14:33:04 >> Thank you.
14:33:07 >>> I have only had, incidentally two, people that
14:33:10 called me and expressed any concern at all about this
14:33:13 petition.
14:33:17 Any other questions?
14:33:18 >> Thank you very much.
14:33:21 T speaker to my left.
14:33:22 Yes, sir.
14:33:24 >>> My name is Richard Cantin, I own the Irish
14:33:30 Dubliner pub which is located catter-corner to the
14:33:33 petitioner property, Taqueria.
14:33:37 Mr. Crumbley, I left you several messages and have not
14:33:41 heard back from you.
14:33:42 We have been in the community for six years plus.
14:33:44 We are beer and wine and food.
14:33:46 We have been through the process of watching a lot of
14:33:50 places being granted zoning for liquor whether it's an
14:33:53 R designation or X designation and then turn basically
14:33:58 into liquor establishments.
14:33:59 It has degraded the community, negatively impacted the

14:34:02 neighborhood, and as a business owner and restaurateur
14:34:05 it's forced me to compete with guys honor can sell $2
14:34:10 YAGER shots to college kids and nickel beer.
14:34:14 We try to run a good establishment.
14:34:16 We used to have great community support.
14:34:19 Right now the community around there is not supporting
14:34:22 bars and restaurants because it's base basically the
14:34:25 community has been unwillingly turned into an
14:34:29 entertainment district.
14:34:33 In 2007 in Ybor City I had a restaurant.
14:34:35 I watched it cannibalize itself.
14:34:38 If you grant the petition and petitions like it, you
14:34:40 will cause the same predatory behavior in the
14:34:42 neighborhood.
14:34:44 Mr. Ortiz has three locations that I know that serve
14:34:47 liquor.
14:34:48 The fact that he wants to open up a liquor stand, with
14:34:52 a liquor kitchen that's right catter-corner to our
14:34:56 restaurant.
14:34:57 And also the restaurant that he owns across the
14:34:59 street, which already has liquor.
14:35:02 As a restaurateur, I can survive on beer and wine, and

14:35:07 selling food.
14:35:07 But if this goes through, you will see me back before
14:35:11 you looking for my petition for liquor.
14:35:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
14:35:18 Next speaker to my right.
14:35:21 >> My name is Christopher Scott.
14:35:24 I live at 1121 Abbye way.
14:35:27 I'm his business partner and have been for a number of
14:35:30 years.
14:35:31 Two years ago, or a year and a half ago when we bought
14:35:34 the Taqueria, it was a happy day for me.
14:35:37 I loved the location.
14:35:43 I didn't see the Taqueria for what it was then.
14:35:46 I saw it for what it could be.
14:35:48 And way saw was a place where neighbors, visitors,
14:35:53 old, young, children, dogs, poem can bring their dogs,
14:35:59 can come and have a casual meal in a safe, clean
14:36:03 environment.
14:36:05 With great food.
14:36:06 We put a lot of resources into that building.
14:36:09 It doesn't even resemble what it used to look like,
14:36:12 inside and outside.

14:36:15 In saying that, I would say that I eat at the tap
14:36:20 questioner yeah five times a week and I do so not
14:36:23 because Ien own the place but because I enjoy the vibe
14:36:27 and the great food.
14:36:28 We are asking to expand to serve alcoholic beverages
14:36:31 there, because while I'm there I hear people ask for a
14:36:35 Margarita versus beer and wine.
14:36:37 But more important than that, having been there for a
14:36:40 year and a half, we have proven who we are at that
14:36:43 location.
14:36:44 We are not there to cannibalize anything.
14:36:46 We fit right in there.
14:36:49 Most of the neighbors in that area, I got to know by
14:36:52 being at the Taqueria, and watching them bring their
14:36:56 children in, and sometimes their pets when they are
14:36:58 allowed.
14:36:59 That's not going to change.
14:37:00 The Taqueria is what it is.
14:37:02 We have proven over the last year and a half what the
14:37:05 Taqueria is going to be.
14:37:07 We just ask for the opportunity to make it better.
14:37:10 Thank you.

14:37:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:37:14 Yes, sir.
14:37:15 >> John McCory, west Azeele.
14:37:25 I'm opposed and the reason being South Tampa doesn't
14:37:30 need another nightclub, more liquor on the street.
14:37:34 It's been an area for college kids, adolescents, it's
14:37:38 a bad vibe, more bars doing there, and I work across
14:37:42 the street.
14:37:42 It's death detrimental to my income as well.
14:37:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next.
14:37:53 >> Shannon campion, west Azeele also, a manager at the
14:38:02 Irish Dubliner pub.
14:38:04 We are looking to rethink the neighborhood would be a
14:38:06 lot better if we didn't keep adding more liquor
14:38:08 establishments.
14:38:09 And especially at our place where it's more the
14:38:14 restaurant crowd and like an older crowd.
14:38:16 Introduction of liquor, we feel, just brings younger
14:38:19 and younger kids in, and the crime is worse, you know,
14:38:26 the cops seem to be okay with it but statistically,
14:38:28 there are more police calls to establishments with
14:38:31 liquor than others.

14:38:35 And I don't think it will help the whole area or any
14:38:37 of the other businesses that are there.
14:38:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:38:47 >>> I also work at the Irish Dubliner pub.
14:38:51 I'm opposed to this for a couple things.
14:38:54 We have been there since beginning of Hyde Park.
14:38:56 We have helped establish Hyde Park as an area, I feel.
14:39:01 I have been there just over four years.
14:39:03 And I remember when 40 people were coming in and out,
14:39:08 we helped establish that area.
14:39:10 Adding liquor, I don't think, will help anything.
14:39:14 As Shannon said, more problems come with liquor.
14:39:16 We have hardly any problems.
14:39:17 I actually started there, a bouncer at the door, and I
14:39:25 don't have any problems.
14:39:26 I mean we still don't have any problems.
14:39:28 Neighborhood bar.
14:39:30 People come down from time to time to see us by word
14:39:34 of mouth.
14:39:35 I think any more liquor would sabotage us.
14:39:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You work at the pub across the street
14:39:42 as well?

14:39:44 Okay.
14:39:46 >> Wagner.
14:39:49 I also work at the Dubliner.
14:39:52 West Azeele.
14:39:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Who is tending the bar?
14:39:55 [ Laughter ]
14:39:56 >> And I tell you, I got to Taqueria right now but I
14:40:08 think the installation of a liquor window will be
14:40:11 detrimental to the neighborhood.
14:40:12 I don't know if council spent any time in New Orleans.
14:40:14 If you walk up to a liquor window and walk away with
14:40:17 your liquor drink, I know the they think they will
14:40:21 manage that but the reality is people walk up to our
14:40:24 bar with other bar's drinks all the time.
14:40:28 That's all I wanted to say.
14:40:33 >>> My name is reverend France Y holiday.
14:40:42 I think it would be a terrible thing to put another
14:40:44 liquor license on our street.
14:40:46 I walked the parking lot for the past 13 months.
14:40:50 I see everything that happens in and round.
14:40:52 I know that we have many people who live around that
14:40:54 neighborhood.

14:40:56 And I don't drink myself.
14:40:59 Like I say, I see everything.
14:41:01 I see glasses fly over the side from people coming
14:41:04 around from MacDinton's because there's alcohol in a
14:41:08 glass.
14:41:08 I picked up many glasses at anytime on the side of our
14:41:11 parking lot from that.
14:41:12 And this doesn't happen at the Irish Dubliner pub. If
14:41:22 we call the police it's because of somebody running
14:41:24 down the road naked.
14:41:25 Now that happened this year.
14:41:28 That was taken care of.
14:41:30 But good food is good food.
14:41:34 But I think things should stay just the way they are
14:41:36 over there.
14:41:37 Inside the Taqueria, I have been in there.
14:41:40 I have ate in there.
14:41:41 But I couldn't sit in there.
14:41:42 It's too small, too confining, it's smothering, and if
14:41:46 you put a liquor license in there, that's all we are
14:41:48 going to need.
14:41:49 Everybody is going to be calling the police every

14:41:51 night, our policemen are going to be down on that
14:41:56 sunset strip.
14:41:57 I think the sunset strip should be put somewhere else,
14:42:01 where it can be accommodated, and then having all
14:42:04 these young kids, 21 to 25, I watched them fall on
14:42:08 their face out on the concrete, before they got to the
14:42:11 parking lot.
14:42:14 Coming from the other establishments.
14:42:17 Food is good, like I said.
14:42:18 I think we should leave it just the way it is.
14:42:20 I have never had a problem in that parking lots since
14:42:23 I worked there.
14:42:24 Everybody treats me with respect.
14:42:25 And I do likewise.
14:42:27 And I am totally against another liquor license on
14:42:30 that street.
14:42:31 Thank you.
14:42:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
14:42:36 Anyone else want to address council from the public?
14:42:38 Okay.
14:42:39 Petitioner.
14:42:41 Rebuttal.

14:42:42 You have five minutes.
14:42:43 >> I'll speak quickly.
14:42:47 First of all, I have been in litigation with the
14:42:50 Dublin for over a year and a half now sew so you can
14:42:53 understand why they would close the bar down to come
14:42:55 speak against me.
14:42:56 To address their specific points because I don't think
14:42:59 this is a forum for to us debate our personal
14:43:01 problems.
14:43:03 It's ironic that they would sit here and propose to
14:43:06 council they have an upscale establishment.
14:43:08 Their biggest night is Wednesday night leader night
14:43:10 which is driven by college students from UT that we
14:43:13 have to employ three security hosts on the corner of
14:43:18 our lot at cheap to make sure we I.D. them because of
14:43:23 the overflow of their liter night which they sell $4
14:43:28 liter.
14:43:29 A liter is this big.
14:43:30 I can't imagine any of you at council or anybody here
14:43:33 hanging out drinking liters, unless you were at the
14:43:35 youth age. And I don't mean that bad.
14:43:38 I mean the college age, okay? I take that back.

14:43:40 (Laughter)
14:43:41 Sorry about that. I'm 38.
14:43:48 The other thing I wants to address as Walter said, as
14:43:55 Walter said, we take very much pride in the
14:43:57 neighborhood.
14:43:58 If you look at our parking lot and you look at
14:44:00 whenever we touch something, we bring it up tenfold.
14:44:04 The Dublin has a parking lot across the street from
14:44:06 take T Taqueria.
14:44:08 Have been knows that landmark because it's the old
14:44:10 beat up gas station on the corner across from us that
14:44:12 has a run-down fence that has never been improved, and
14:44:16 everybody says, why don't they sell it?
14:44:17 Why don't they do anything with?
14:44:20 The Dublin has leased it or over a year.
14:44:23 Not one time have they taken the initiative to improve
14:44:26 that property, clean it, paint it.
14:44:28 Nothing about the landlords.
14:44:29 For their own pride of their own establishment.
14:44:32 So when they speak about what we bring to the
14:44:34 neighborhood, they can't come light years to what we
14:44:36 have done.

14:44:37 We spend over $50,000 a month in parking between
14:44:40 leases and ownership.
14:44:42 No one can stand before you and tell you that.
14:44:44 I have been running the parking lots when I came here
14:44:51 in '06 when everybody said I couldn't, and Mr.
14:44:56 Menendez was willing to have me have that parking lot
14:44:59 and I paid for it and I have only parked twice in that
14:45:01 parking lot, because I haven't needed it yet but I
14:45:04 still pay for to the make sure if we need it at night,
14:45:07 someone can use it.
14:45:08 So our commitments is there.
14:45:09 It shows through and through.
14:45:11 Lastly, with regards to the neighborhood, a month ago
14:45:14 a young lady that lives across the street in the
14:45:16 condos called the police department and said, there's
14:45:19 noise coming from somewhere, I don't know where.
14:45:21 The police department came to us and came over to
14:45:24 Taqueria and said, hey, it might be your band.
14:45:27 We said, now what?
14:45:28 No more band.
14:45:29 They are out.
14:45:29 We don't do bands anymore.

14:45:32 Went to the Dubliner that does bands four nights a
14:45:36 week.
14:45:37 Four-piece band on the patio till 2:30 in the morning.
14:45:40 Now you tell me that's neighborhood watch, that's
14:45:43 neighborhood community?
14:45:44 So I apologize if this had to come to this forum but I
14:45:47 am not going to let someone sit here and basically lie
14:45:50 about who we are, when we work every day to make that
14:45:53 community better.
14:45:54 And we sit down as Walter said, we will sit down and
14:45:58 listen to anybody in the community and address their
14:46:00 concerns and find a third way that makes it work for
14:46:03 anyone.
14:46:04 And we invested our time and our money.
14:46:05 So we would appreciate your support in this.
14:46:07 We think you are going to love what we are going to be
14:46:09 able to do there and the neighborhood is behind us and
14:46:12 so are our guests.
14:46:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have of a question.
14:46:16 By the way, your food is great.
14:46:18 The place looks great.
14:46:19 My concern is selling liquor till three in the morning

14:46:22 in the neighborhood.
14:46:23 The people who live right behind you.
14:46:28 Will you be willing what Mr. Dingfelder suggested, the
14:46:31 "R"?
14:46:32 >>> Yes, ma'am.
14:46:32 That makes a huge difference to me.
14:46:34 >>> Absolutely.
14:46:34 And real quick.
14:46:35 We are not going to have a liquor window.
14:46:37 The guests are not going to do anything but sit down,
14:46:41 and we will serve them.
14:46:42 They do not go to the window.
14:46:43 They do not order themselves.
14:46:45 They order by a drink menu.
14:46:47 What we learned from this location is typically in a
14:46:49 bar atmosphere, you have a bar top which has to be
14:46:51 used by the guests.
14:46:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Sir, you're over time.
14:46:57 You answered the question.
14:46:59 Another question?
14:46:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I wasn't sure where you were going
14:47:04 in addition to the "R."

14:47:05 Were you talking about hours?
14:47:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, I'm concerned because three
14:47:09 in the morning, people again driving through the
14:47:11 neighborhood.
14:47:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What are the current hours of
14:47:14 operation?
14:47:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Three.
14:47:15 >>> We open Thursday, Friday and Saturday till three.
14:47:17 On Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, we close at
14:47:21 nine.
14:47:22 So we do take advantage of the people in the
14:47:25 neighborhood, because we have a lot of people that
14:47:27 like to eat late night and that's the time they are
14:47:29 there.
14:47:30 So we don't stay open just to stay open.
14:47:32 We stay open when there's something happening, when
14:47:34 there's people in the neighborhood, we stay open to
14:47:36 accommodate their late night food.
14:47:39 Cheaps serves till 2:30 as well and we sell food.
14:47:42 I mean, we are a food establishment.
14:47:44 There is no question of that.
14:47:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm obviously I'm not out there at

14:47:54 three in the morning.
14:47:55 Are people still patronize being at three in the
14:47:57 morning or closing up or what?
14:47:59 >> We are closing up.
14:48:00 What happens subpoena we close.
14:48:01 We can't sit in a facility.
14:48:03 We close the facility down between 2:00 and 2:30 to
14:48:06 take food to go.
14:48:07 We open the door so people can buy as they are going
14:48:10 home in their cars.
14:48:14 Pita's stays open till 2:30. Cheap food till 2:30.
14:48:18 We try to get food in people's bodies before they
14:48:20 leave.
14:48:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is Mr. Crumbley still here?
14:48:24 If I could, Mr. Chairman.
14:48:30 Walter, I recognize and appreciate the fact that you
14:48:33 guys are getting along well with Mr. Ortiz.
14:48:36 But in the past, you or your group has pushed us real
14:48:42 hard to try to constrain the hours of operation on
14:48:46 some of these establishments.
14:48:48 Now some of them are grandfathered in, with hours we
14:48:50 can't control, but of the ones that come in newer, we

14:48:54 put some hours on them.
14:48:55 I haven't heard anybody talking about that tonight.
14:48:58 >>> Walter Crumbley: I don't recall in our
14:49:01 discussions that anything came up about the hours.
14:49:06 They were dealing with the concept of what he wanted
14:49:08 to do.
14:49:09 And I don't remember any discussion taking place about
14:49:12 the hours.
14:49:17 My own personal experience and the complaints that I
14:49:19 have gotten from the neighbors is late at night,
14:49:23 somewhere between 1:00 and 3:00 in the morning, there
14:49:26 seems to be an inordinate number of people who are
14:49:32 wandering through the neighborhood or driving through
14:49:35 neighborhood in a reckless manner yelling and
14:49:38 screaming and carrying on.
14:49:40 This is why we dealt with the resident only parking
14:49:44 issue, is to keep them out of that neighborhood to
14:49:46 start with.
14:49:46 >> Chef Hogue says nothing good happens after
14:49:49 midnight.
14:49:50 >> Well, he's probably right.
14:49:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Ortiz, would you consider on a

14:49:58 voluntary basis -- thank you, Walter -- any lesser
14:50:01 hours?
14:50:04 I know you will probably concede on the weekdays.
14:50:09 But in terms of Thursday, Friday, or Saturday?
14:50:11 >>> I think that we have demonstrated that we are
14:50:17 great operators, we do what we say we are going to do.
14:50:20 We have the bungalow cafe that recently got approved.
14:50:23 They had no restrictions for their hours.
14:50:25 The tavern got approved which was an Italian place on
14:50:29 the corner of Platt and Howard.
14:50:30 We are not asking for anything that wasn't given to
14:50:34 our --
14:50:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't remember us approving
14:50:38 either of those without constraints on hours.
14:50:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We constrained the hours.
14:50:42 >>> If you constrained, I apologize.
14:50:44 I mean, right now we are open till 3 a.m., and we are
14:50:49 a package store.
14:50:50 We are converting -- we have a 2(COP) license.
14:50:53 We can sell beer and wine till 3 a.m., seven days a
14:50:57 week.
14:50:58 Now, when we took over the Taqueria, if we wanted to

14:51:01 be a bar, we could have closed the kitchen, which
14:51:03 would have been a heck of a lot cheaper, threw in
14:51:06 walk-in coolers and started selling beer and wine and
14:51:11 become the Mexican Dubliner.
14:51:14 That's not what we wanted to do. We have people who
14:51:17 wanted to dime.
14:51:18 If you came into cheap at midnight you would be
14:51:20 surprised.
14:51:21 This gentleman from the morning show is a frequenter
14:51:24 of ours.
14:51:26 >> I think the question was would you be willing to
14:51:29 take lesser hours?
14:51:31 >> I apologize.
14:51:32 I am willing to go to an "R" but I think we meet the
14:51:35 requirements to stay open till three and we do it
14:51:38 because there's a need for it.
14:51:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Shelby, don't we have the
14:51:42 ability now when people come in to impose hours
14:51:47 without their concession, isn't that a new part of our
14:51:50 ordinance?
14:51:52 If we have a reasonable, rational basis to do so?
14:51:54 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.

14:51:55 It's still my opinion, semantics here, but it's still
14:52:01 my opinion that the applicant has the ability to have
14:52:03 his application voted up or down.
14:52:05 So maybe he doesn't have to request them, but if he
14:52:08 would rather have his application voted without those,
14:52:11 and you vote it down, he has the ability to have his
14:52:15 application voted as presented.
14:52:16 >> So how do we get to the other place?
14:52:23 >>> Well, I think you would need to ask the applicant
14:52:26 if he wants to have his application voted up or down
14:52:28 as he presented it, or whether or not he would be
14:52:31 willing to have a motion as you guys proposed be voted
14:52:35 on.
14:52:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, as stated it's 3:00.
14:52:44 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question because I remember
14:52:47 when we did approve that, the wet zoning for the
14:52:52 Italian place on the corner of Platt and Howard, which
14:52:58 I don't know if it ever even opened, but now I think
14:53:02 it's either a bar or liquor store, isn't it?
14:53:05 >>> That's the tavern I was speaking of that was
14:53:07 approved till 3 a.m.
14:53:09 >> But when we approved it, as I remember, because I

14:53:12 defended them, that it would be great to have this
14:53:16 little Italian restaurant in Soho.
14:53:18 And which is what I think the proprietor had earlier.
14:53:25 And I don't -- was it ever an Italian restaurant?
14:53:28 >> It was.
14:53:29 >> For how long?
14:53:30 >> About six months.
14:53:32 And they decided to go in a different direction.
14:53:34 >> I live in that neighborhood and I never -- and
14:53:38 drive by there every day and I never got in there.
14:53:40 I do have to say I'm glad you bought the Taqueria
14:53:46 because I didn't think the food was really that great
14:53:48 before.
14:53:48 So hopefully it's better now.
14:53:53 But I have been in there many, many times, and I don't
14:53:56 understand, I also don't understand the whole thing
14:53:59 with the window.
14:54:02 A walk-up window?
14:54:03 >> It's not a walk-up window.
14:54:05 It's a service window only, meaning our servers are
14:54:08 the only ones that are allowed.
14:54:09 >> But it's a kitchen?

14:54:11 >> No.
14:54:12 It's a kitchen in theory.
14:54:16 It's a service bar.
14:54:18 They call it a kitchen because it has the ability like
14:54:20 a true kitchen, where we do drinks that you won't find
14:54:25 anywhere else.
14:54:30 I apologize.
14:54:31 >> It's been too long.
14:54:32 You are saying that only your waiters can walk up to
14:54:34 the bar?
14:54:35 >> Correct.
14:54:36 The bar is only 9 by 15.
14:54:39 It's tiny.
14:54:40 >> Well, here's what I don't understand.
14:54:44 When you bought it, did you expand the interior at
14:54:47 all?
14:54:48 >>> No, ma'am.
14:54:49 >> It's tiny.
14:54:50 And the also patio is so small.
14:54:52 I don't see how it really can even function unless as
14:54:57 a restaurant, unless, you know, it's take-out.
14:55:01 Because there's not anywhere for anyone to sit.

14:55:04 >> We have 50 seats.
14:55:06 And be if you look at the drawing that I gave you, we
14:55:08 are going to open up the windows to include the inside
14:55:12 and the outside of the locations, so it becomes a
14:55:19 no-man's land.
14:55:20 And you are right you say you don't know how we can
14:55:22 make it.
14:55:23 We have subsidized that location.
14:55:24 And I will be honest with you.
14:55:26 If we can't make it work, because we are not going to
14:55:29 be able to make it work the way it is, we are going to
14:55:31 be forced to sell it to a developer or to someone who
14:55:34 wants it to turn it into a bar, a package beer stand.
14:55:38 We bought that location to save it.
14:55:40 And to do what's right and to keep it the Mexican
14:55:44 restaurant it is.
14:55:45 Our word speaks for itself.
14:55:47 We have shown that diligently in all of our locations.
14:55:50 The cafe is 13 years old, never changed the name once.
14:55:54 We didn't get there --
14:55:55 Okay, sir, sir.
14:55:56 >>MARY MULHERN: I understand.

14:55:57 And I'm very impressed that Mr. Crumbley is speaking
14:56:02 in favor of you, because it's a good indication.
14:56:07 But my problem with the idea of this is that
14:56:13 everything is always presented to us, especially in
14:56:17 this neighborhood as it's just going to be a
14:56:20 restaurant and, you know, you brought us that example,
14:56:23 that Italian restaurant that never happened.
14:56:25 And we approved it.
14:56:27 And it's not, because they got a 4(COP-X), and they
14:56:31 really barely ever functioned as a restaurant.
14:56:37 So I feel like we need to really -- even though there
14:56:40 isn't a lot of opposition, and your opposition is
14:56:43 competition, and I think you should just throw out
14:56:45 everything they said about you and you said about
14:56:48 them, because we are not here to make judgments on
14:56:51 your legal battles, but I know because I live in this
14:56:57 neighborhood, that the character has completely
14:56:59 changed from a restaurant row to a young bar scene,
14:57:06 and until today I have never heard anyone, including
14:57:09 Mr. Crumbley, say that they wanted more late hours
14:57:15 serving hard liquor.
14:57:16 So I have a problem with that.

14:57:19 I would support the "R."
14:57:21 But I have a problem with the hours, too.
14:57:25 So I hope we can, you know, arrive at some kind of a
14:57:30 compromise here.
14:57:30 Because I just feel like this is not the way that this
14:57:35 neighborhood wants to go.
14:57:38 More 3 a.m.s.
14:57:40 >>> Can I make a suggestion?
14:57:43 >> Okay, yes.
14:57:44 >>> If we took a conditional, 4(COP) "R," for one
14:57:48 year, that the results would only bring us back to
14:57:52 where we are today, which is a 2(COP) straight, we
14:57:56 would be willing again to go there and prove
14:58:00 ourselves, to show you who we are and what we are
14:58:02 about, no restriction on the hours, so again we can
14:58:07 prove that we can do business till 3:00 and not upset
14:58:10 the neighborhood, and still be the community leader
14:58:12 that we are as far as the business leader, was that
14:58:16 something that council would be willing to support?
14:58:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Legal?
14:58:23 Don't tell us you are going to have to come back.
14:58:25 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.

14:58:27 Once you grant a now wet zoning, everyone if it's a
14:58:30 one-you're conditional, what you do is you revoke the
14:58:32 previous ordinance, so the 2(COP-R) at the end of the
14:58:35 year would no longer be there and I think that's what
14:58:38 Mr. Ortiz said was important.
14:58:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
14:58:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Ms. Kert, we all will still be here
14:58:46 next year.
14:58:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We will?
14:58:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In a year.
14:58:53 Hopefully.
14:58:54 [ Laughter ]
14:58:54 And I feel more comfortable with what he suggested,
14:58:57 having the conditional for a you're to see how it
14:59:00 goes, in terms of safety to the neighborhood,
14:59:02 blah-blah-blah, with the "R."
14:59:07 We can't dop that?
14:59:13 >> No, you would have to reevaluate it and come back.
14:59:18 You have no idea who would show up and what would
14:59:20 happen in that one year.
14:59:23 >> So he's willing to take that risk, is what I'm
14:59:26 hearing him say.

14:59:27 >> I'll let him speak to that but I believe he was
14:59:29 only able to take the risk if he was able to take the
14:59:34 2(COP) and he would not be.
14:59:38 >>> At this point in, all fairness, if we are unable
14:59:41 to become a full service restaurant, we have to put it
14:59:43 up for sale.
14:59:44 We can't afford to keep losing money in the concept.
14:59:49 It doesn't work.
14:59:50 It needs to be revamped.
14:59:51 It needs to be able to compete.
14:59:52 It can't compete with restricted hours in the
14:59:55 neighborhood.
14:59:56 It just can't compete.
14:59:58 I'm just being honest with you.
15:00:00 And I apologize.
15:00:01 I really apologize.
15:00:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
15:00:05 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to make sure I understand
15:00:08 all of this.
15:00:09 So you are saying you would be willing for a 4(COP)
15:00:16 "R" but with the hours --
15:00:19 >>> The hours, we would request the hours be until

15:00:22 three.
15:00:23 That's consistent with the neighborhood.
15:00:24 The neighbors are in support of it.
15:00:26 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm just trying to clarify.
15:00:29 >>> The neighbors support it.
15:00:32 And they wouldn't have told you that if they didn't
15:00:34 believe it.
15:00:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:00:36 >>MARY MULHERN: And what Ms. Kert is telling us is if
15:00:41 you make that conditional, okay, if it was
15:00:46 conditional, and we decided he couldn't have that
15:00:52 special use, then it reverts back to what happens?
15:01:00 We have to decide what it would be.
15:01:02 >>REBECCA KERT: The way the one year works is what's
15:01:06 currently there, he would have the 4(COP) "R" for one
15:01:10 year.
15:01:11 At the end of that time he would have nothing unless
15:01:12 he came back in and you approved something else.
15:01:16 >> But isn't that the point of a conditional, that
15:01:18 they come back and show that it's appropriate, and
15:01:24 then have to get -- they have to get another zone.
15:01:28 You are saying they would lose completely?

15:01:31 >> And that's been a concern to the applicants that
15:01:35 are requesting something later.
15:01:36 When they take the one year conditional they lose
15:01:39 everything, if you don't choose to grant it.
15:01:41 >> But if they would like to ask for a different --
15:01:48 They would have to come back.
15:01:50 >>> Either way.
15:01:51 >>MARY MULHERN: Can they come back at the same time
15:01:53 they are coming back for approval anyway?
15:01:55 Can't that happen at the same time?
15:02:01 >>> They have to go come back or it goes dry.
15:02:04 I'm sorry.
15:02:05 >>MARY MULHERN: If he comes back, we can't say, sorry
15:02:08 this didn't work out but you can go back to that?
15:02:10 >>REBECCA KERT: No, it can't happen in the same time
15:02:13 frame.
15:02:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We could --
15:02:16 >>MARY MULHERN: We can't guarantee it, but we could do
15:02:19 that.
15:02:19 It's possible to do that.
15:02:20 >>REBECCA KERT: It's possible if the applicant was
15:02:24 willing to request again a 2(COP).

15:02:26 But the bottom line is if you were to grant today the
15:02:29 one-year conditional the 2(COP) would no longer exist.
15:02:32 It doesn't automatically revert back.
15:02:34 >>MARY MULHERN: I understand that's what he was
15:02:36 agreeing to, so it would be --
15:02:40 You don't want to take the risk of going back.
15:02:42 Okay.
15:02:43 Yes, councilman Caetano.
15:02:46 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Sir, you applied for 4(COP-X) and
15:02:49 you are willing to take a 4(COP) "R" for a one-year
15:02:55 conditional?
15:02:56 >>> That's only if I am able to maintain my 2(COP)
15:02:59 status.
15:03:00 Currently I have a 2 --
15:03:02 >> I don't think you can do that currently.
15:03:04 >>> That's what they are saying.
15:03:05 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The thing is you have to run the
15:03:09 business right, no problems, and tell them they can't
15:03:12 throw beer bottles in the other guy's --
15:03:15 >>> Certainly we have been there for a year and a
15:03:17 half.
15:03:17 We have had three calls that we have called on.

15:03:20 That's it, in a year and a half.
15:03:21 >> You can't control what one of your clients does
15:03:30 when he goes down the road.
15:03:31 That's out of your hands.
15:03:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, we need to move.
15:03:34 What's your pleasure?
15:03:36 We have seven, plus the clear channel and CBS.
15:03:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Ortiz, life is spilled with
15:03:47 compromises.
15:03:49 I am concerned about what happens to people after they
15:03:51 leave any establishment.
15:03:53 I don't care whose they are, when they walk down the
15:03:56 street.
15:03:56 Okay.
15:03:56 And because when they walk down the street, there's
15:04:01 surrounding neighborhoods, okay?
15:04:03 And the bottles get thrown, the glasses get dumped,
15:04:06 the trash gets dumped, yards get peed in, et cetera,
15:04:10 et cetera.
15:04:10 We know what goes on.
15:04:12 Sorry to be so graphic.
15:04:16 Number 5 is yours might be the last stop this that

15:04:20 they hit as they stag area long Howard as the evening
15:04:22 goes on.
15:04:23 That's just the nature of the beast, all right?
15:04:26 But you already have a license.
15:04:29 So that's -- otherwise, I don't even know if I would
15:04:32 be willing to consider any of this.
15:04:34 But you already have a license and that has some value
15:04:37 and some negotiating position.
15:04:39 All I suggest is this.
15:04:41 Maybe you can get some support if you limited your
15:04:44 hours to ten on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,
15:04:47 and 2, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, instead of 3.
15:04:52 3:00 just sounds to me like what the mechanic is going
15:04:55 on at 3:00 in the morning in South Tampa that really
15:04:58 needs to be going on?
15:04:59 That's a very simple request.
15:05:01 I'm only one vote.
15:05:05 Let me just finish.
15:05:06 If you would be willing to accept that as a 4(COP) "R"
15:05:10 with a 10 p.m. four days a week and 2 a.m. three days
15:05:14 of the week, looks like your partner is coming down to
15:05:18 confer.

15:05:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: John, you never stayed out till
15:05:25 three?
15:05:26 >> My wife doesn't let me out past eleven.
15:05:33 >>> I would be happy to compromise.
15:05:35 I wouldn't want to restrict myself to 10:00.
15:05:38 You saw what happens.
15:05:39 >> But you just said nine.
15:05:41 >>> We close at nine right now because of the times.
15:05:44 And there's no money in the times.
15:05:46 Just three months ago we were open till 11 and 12
15:05:49 during the week.
15:05:49 So we are flexible.
15:05:52 You can look at our menu.
15:05:54 You can look at what we do.
15:05:55 What I'm asking council is to understand, the
15:05:59 neighbors support us.
15:06:00 I would compromise with council because I want you to
15:06:02 trust us and we'll come back and ask for an hour at
15:06:05 another time but 2 across the board which is
15:06:10 St. Pete's time or anybody else I think is more than
15:06:12 reasonable.
15:06:13 >> Sunday night, 2 in the morning.

15:06:14 What if we have Super Bowl, for instance, on that
15:06:17 Sunday night?
15:06:17 We are going to stay open.
15:06:19 So I have to be able to make due business, councilman
15:06:26 Dingfelder.
15:06:27 I can't be restricted to what my motion is going to be
15:06:29 with business.
15:06:32 It's tough right now.
15:06:33 You know that.
15:06:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I understand, but our decisions are
15:06:37 forever.
15:06:37 And they are long passed me and long passed you
15:06:42 because on this property it theoretically is there
15:06:45 forever as long as the property is there.
15:06:47 So that's my request, is 10 or 2.
15:06:51 I really don't understand why you said 9.
15:06:55 I don't understand why you need past 10.
15:06:58 I thought I was giving you an hour.
15:06:59 That seems reasonable.
15:07:03 >>> There are times when certain things will fall.
15:07:05 New Year's Eve.
15:07:06 Christmas.

15:07:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, sir, we have got other things on
15:07:11 the agenda.
15:07:12 I have got to move.
15:07:18 Is there a motion?
15:07:19 We have to vote it up or down, is that right?
15:07:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You need a motion to close.
15:07:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But vote it up or down, right?
15:07:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, the issue right now, is it your
15:07:28 request, sir, to change your petition to a 4(COP-R)
15:07:32 with no hourly restriction?
15:07:36 >>> My request is to change to the a 4(COP-R) with the
15:07:39 hours going down to 2 a.m., seven days a week, and we
15:07:45 request that council support us and give us an
15:07:48 opportunity, to give us an opportunity to win.
15:07:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Does that require the ordinance be
15:07:56 amended and how does council proceed?
15:07:58 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes, it would require the ordinance be
15:08:00 amended.
15:08:01 And we need a motion to have legal amend the ordinance
15:08:04 to reflect that.
15:08:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Then come back at the next regular
15:08:09 meeting?

15:08:10 >>REBECCA KERT: It depends how long the discussion is
15:08:12 going to go today.
15:08:13 If discussion is going to be short then I can --
15:08:17 Listen, we need to vote up or down the original
15:08:19 petition, because right now, council wants to vote,
15:08:28 the amended compromise across the board.
15:08:30 That's the problem.
15:08:31 Nobody is going to put that on the floor.
15:08:35 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Is there a motion?
15:08:36 >>GWEN MILLER: No motion.
15:08:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close the public hearing.
15:08:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there a second?
15:08:40 >> Second.
15:08:41 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor say Aye.
15:08:44 Opposed?
15:08:45 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I move that we change the hours
15:08:47 to 2:00 seven days a week for a 4(COP-R).
15:08:52 That's what you want, sir?
15:08:53 >>> Yes, sir.
15:08:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, sir.
15:08:57 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Costing a ton of money to put
15:09:00 this out, believe me, this little piece of paper.

15:09:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I can't support that.
15:09:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion and second, I guess.
15:09:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It still has to go back.
15:09:12 It still has to go back, right?
15:09:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's true.
15:09:16 That's his request.
15:09:17 That's the motion that's been made. If that motion
15:09:19 does pass, it would have to be a motion to direct
15:09:22 legal to bring back an amended ordinance.
15:09:25 So it requires action.
15:09:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I can't support the motion on the
15:09:28 floor.
15:09:30 I think during the weekdays -- and I understand the
15:09:33 Super Bowl.
15:09:34 I wish there were some way we could address that, but
15:09:36 I guess we don't.
15:09:37 But I just cannot support 2 across the board.
15:09:42 >>> What would be your hours?
15:09:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm sorry, sir.
15:09:47 The public hearing is closed.
15:09:49 There's a motion.
15:09:51 (COP-R) with the condition of closing at 2 a.m., seven

15:09:56 days a week.
15:09:57 All in favor of that motion signify by saying Aye.
15:10:01 It was moved by Caetano and Councilwoman Miller
15:10:06 seconded.
15:10:08 All in favor of the motion signify by I go Aye.
15:10:11 >>THE CLERK: Motion failed 2 to 4.
15:10:17 >>THE CLERK: Dingfelder, Scott, Saul-Sena, Mulhern
15:10:21 voting no.
15:10:24 >>REBECCA KERT: The basis.
15:10:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You still have not taken action,
15:10:27 council.
15:10:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The petition?
15:10:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: In other words, if it's council's
15:10:33 desire, the motion -- there was a motion to amend that
15:10:36 failed.
15:10:37 The motion to amend the petition at the petitioner.
15:10:40 'S request failed.
15:10:40 You still have before you the 4(COP-X) petition as
15:10:44 presented.
15:10:45 That needs to have action.
15:10:47 Either to approve or deny.
15:10:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Scott.

15:10:55 Question.
15:10:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I thought you were talking to me.
15:10:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Scott.
15:11:00 Okay.
15:11:02 I would like to make a motion Sunday, Monday, Tuesday,
15:11:06 Wednesday, for 11 p.m., Thursday, Friday, Saturday,
15:11:08 for 2 a.m.
15:11:10 I would think that's reasonable.
15:11:12 Are you guys amenable to that?
15:11:15 >>> Let me talk to Tony about it.
15:11:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's move onto the next petition
15:11:19 right now while you are negotiating, okay?
15:11:23 Sir?
15:11:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me see if we can get this done.
15:11:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have spent an hour on this
15:11:29 petition.
15:11:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think he said yes, Mr. Chairman.
15:11:32 Let me just finish this.
15:11:34 I move petition V 08-133 directing staff to draft, row
15:11:38 draft the ordinance of limitations of 10 p.m. Sunday,
15:11:41 Monday -- 11 p.m., Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,
15:11:46 2 a.m. Thursday, Friday, Saturday, 4(COP-R).

15:11:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
15:11:51 >> Second.
15:11:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Staff has to redraft the ordinance,
15:12:01 right?
15:12:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't know whether that would be
15:12:04 able to be done today, council.
15:12:05 It would have to come back.
15:12:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
15:12:11 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
15:12:12 Opposes?
15:12:14 Okay.
15:12:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council works that be coming back for
15:12:17 first reading on January 8th then, with a public
15:12:22 hearing closed?
15:12:25 Is that council's desire?
15:12:26 And then have it brought back for second reading?
15:12:36 >>> Yes.
15:12:37 >> It could be written up.
15:12:38 We are going to be here for the next hour and a half.
15:12:40 >> We are going to be here for the next three hours.
15:12:43 >>> I need to be here till the end of the meeting.
15:12:45 >> We have to come back, because, sir, you could have

15:12:48 agreed to this earlier on.
15:12:49 We spent an hour on this one petition.
15:12:53 He would could have voted.
15:12:54 You could have agreed to this earlier on when we put
15:12:57 on the floor.
15:12:57 >>> I apologize, sir.
15:13:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Come back the first week in January
15:13:07 for first reading.
15:13:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: January 8th then?
15:13:12 >> Yes.
15:13:14 We carried the motion, right, madam clerk?
15:13:17 >> Yes, we carried it, we carried it.
15:13:20 Anybody else coming out?
15:13:21 We are not going to spend an hour negotiating today.
15:13:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open number 86.
15:13:27 >> Second.
15:13:28 (Motion carried).
15:13:30 >>ERIC COTTON: Land Development Coordination.
15:13:36 This is V 09-05.
15:13:39 This is for property located at 2543 North Dale Mabry
15:13:42 highway.
15:13:43 This is for the northwest south grill, plaza, the

15:14:00 restaurant at the end right there.
15:14:05 Asking for a 2(COP).
15:14:09 There's two waivers, alcoholic beverages, and the
15:14:14 separation from residential -- minimum separation for
15:14:17 residential uses.
15:14:19 2(COP) for wine, beer.
15:14:25 The other one, the Sweetbay supermarket, has a 3(APS)
15:14:33 and a 2(APS) for the grocery store itself.
15:14:36 Any questions?
15:14:37 >> Officer Don Miller, city police.
15:14:47 We have no objections to this petition.
15:14:52 >> I'm mya Alexander, North Dale Mabry.
15:14:57 The grill is my restaurant and the owner franchisee, a
15:15:01 company based out of Atlanta, Georgia.
15:15:03 This is my second location to open.
15:15:06 We are asking for a beer and wine.
15:15:10 I'm hoping my situation will be rather easy for you.
15:15:13 It's less than one percent of our sales.
15:15:16 We just want to carry beer to offer for families that
15:15:20 come in Friday afternoon.
15:15:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just see.
15:15:24 Anyone in opposition to this petition?

15:15:25 Anyone want to speak in opposition?
15:15:27 Anyone who don't know if they oppose it or not, in the
15:15:32 gray area?
15:15:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question.
15:15:35 Are we just talking -- I know it's a question for
15:15:38 staff.
15:15:38 Are we adjusts talking about one storefront in the
15:15:40 strip center there?
15:15:41 >>> Correct.
15:15:42 Yes, sir.
15:15:42 >> Because the yellow footprint on our handout seems a
15:15:46 lot bigger.
15:15:50 It's the last one.
15:15:53 And that's the Sweetbay, right?
15:15:56 >>> Right.
15:15:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other question by council?
15:15:58 Motion to close.
15:15:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
15:16:00 >> Second.
15:16:00 (Motion carried).
15:16:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
15:16:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move the following ordinance for

15:16:11 first read being, an ordinance S-2 for sales of small
15:16:15 venue containing alcohol more than 1% by weight not
15:16:19 more than 14% wait for consumption on premises and in
15:16:25 sealed containers for consumption at or from that
15:16:28 certain lot, plot or tract of land, 2543 Dale Mabry
15:16:34 highway in section 2 hereof approving waivers set
15:16:37 forth herein waiving certain restrictions as to
15:16:39 distance based on certain findings providing for
15:16:42 repeal of all ordinances in conflict.
15:16:46 2543, is that a unique address for that slot or is
15:16:50 that the whole address?
15:16:51 J.
15:16:52 >> The actual Sweetbay shopping center is 2525 north
15:16:56 Dale Mabry Dale Mabry and apparently they added on
15:16:59 retail spaces later on, which are address 2543.
15:17:04 >> Are you at 2543 unit blank?
15:17:07 >> Yes.
15:17:08 >> What unit?
15:17:09 >> 14.
15:17:09 >> Maybe between first and second reading we'll
15:17:12 clarify that.
15:17:13 Thank you.

15:17:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
15:17:20 All in favor?
15:17:21 Opposes?
15:17:22 Thank you.
15:17:22 That wasn't too difficult.
15:17:23 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda and Mulhern
15:17:25 being absent at vote.
15:17:28 Second reading of the ordinance will be held January
15:17:31 the 8th at 9:30 a.m.
15:17:33 >> Thank you.
15:17:34 Item 87.
15:17:35 >> Move to open 87.
15:17:37 >> Second.
15:17:37 (Motion carried)
15:17:38 >>ERIC COTTON: Land Development Coordination.
15:17:44 This is V 09-07, property at 5303 West Kennedy
15:17:52 Boulevard.
15:17:53 The owner is MHI hospitality TRS.
15:17:58 The DRC found this to be consistent with the changes
15:18:01 between site plan between first and second reading
15:18:03 which are noted on page 2.
15:18:07 They require some transportation issues and solid

15:18:09 waste issues.
15:18:10 Both departments found it consistent with changes to
15:18:11 the site plan as requested.
15:18:17 It currently under construction, and for a 4(COP-X)
15:18:20 which is for beer, wine, liquor, for consumption on
15:18:25 premises only.
15:18:26 If you have any questions I'm here to answer.
15:18:33 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
15:18:35 department.
15:18:36 I have been sworn.
15:18:37 Police department has no objections to this wet zone.
15:18:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
15:18:43 Are you back already?
15:18:45 >> Once again.
15:18:47 Kathryn O'Donnelly, Holland and Knight, here on behalf
15:18:52 of MHI.
15:18:53 I'm sure you are familiar with this site: It was
15:18:56 rezoned about a year and a half ago and we are very
15:18:58 anxious, wrapping up construction to open the palm
15:19:00 plaza in January hopefully in time for the Super Bowl.
15:19:03 So this is a loosened they are trying to tie up for
15:19:08 that.

15:19:08 And I have spoken to the Beach Park association
15:19:11 president, and she had no problems whatsoever with
15:19:15 this.
15:19:16 So we haven't heard any opposition.
15:19:19 Just looking to do the standard service of the palm
15:19:22 plaza hotel.
15:19:24 So if you have any questions.
15:19:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?
15:19:29 It's a public hearing.
15:19:30 Anyone wish to address council?
15:19:32 This is a public hearing.
15:19:33 Anyone wish to address council?
15:19:39 >> Move to close.
15:19:40 >> Second.
15:19:40 (Motion carried).
15:19:41 >>GWEN MILLER: An ordinance for first reading,
15:19:44 approving a special use permit S-2 for alcoholic
15:19:46 beverages, sales large venue making lawful the sale of
15:19:50 beverages regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine
15:19:53 and liquor, 4(COP-X), for consumption on premises only
15:19:57 at or from that certain lot, plot or tract of land
15:20:00 located at 5303 West Kennedy Boulevard, Tampa,

15:20:03 Florida, as more particularly described in section 2
15:20:07 hereof approving waivers as set forth herein waiving
15:20:10 certain restrictions as to conditions based on certain
15:20:14 findings, providing for re Pell of all ordinances in
15:20:16 conflict, providing an effective date.
15:20:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by Councilwoman
15:20:22 Saul-Sena.
15:20:25 All in favor?
15:20:26 Opposes?
15:20:27 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern and Miranda
15:20:29 being absent at vote.
15:20:30 Second reading of the ordinance will be held January
15:20:32 8th at 9:30 a.m.
15:20:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Noticed to open item 88.
15:20:45 >> So moved.
15:20:45 >> Second.
15:20:45 (Motion carried).
15:20:46 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:20:56 Petition V-09-08 at 3751 east Fowler Avenue is seeking
15:21:04 a 2(COP-X) in conjunction with a hotel use.
15:21:08 You will notice this is at the corner of Fowler and
15:21:10 McKinley on the overhead.

15:21:13 This is an existing Wingate hotel.
15:21:19 Which lies across from the University of South Florida
15:21:22 technology center, technology park.
15:21:26 You will note in the staff report that there is an
15:21:29 inconsistency finding from the development review
15:21:32 committee, and on page 2 you will see the exact
15:21:35 inconsistency that was found by the solid waste
15:21:37 department.
15:21:38 There has been ongoing discussions between the solid
15:21:40 waste department, the city legal -- City of Tampa
15:21:45 legal department, as well as with the petitioner
15:21:47 regarding the issue.
15:21:51 I did give you a copy of the final e-mail that I had
15:21:54 this morning as of 10:11 a.m. from Mr. Tanya
15:21:59 Brickhouse, the director of solid waste, and her final
15:22:03 statement was that in discussion with her team, their
15:22:07 position is to reject the proposal because it sets the
15:22:10 wrong precedent.
15:22:11 They do stand firm on compliance with the code.
15:22:14 I will go over the issues quickly just so you can
15:22:17 understand generally.
15:22:21 We do have a member of the solid waste team here if

15:22:24 you do have any additional questions.
15:22:32 You will note on the site plan -- make sure I get this
15:22:34 situated just right -- I believe this is the correct
15:22:44 location.
15:22:44 You see the dark line.
15:22:45 This is the property line.
15:22:47 And you will note here that this is the dumpster area,
15:22:52 6.6 by 6, 8-yard metal dumpster and you can see it
15:22:57 actually crosses over into the adjacent property, and
15:23:01 this is also the dumpster area here.
15:23:03 The issue is -- and I can certainly let the staff
15:23:06 answer any questions about it -- is the bottom line is
15:23:10 they are in for a permit.
15:23:11 They are asking the city for a new permit, for
15:23:14 alcohol, renovation, construction services, whatever
15:23:16 it may be, because they are into the city asking for a
15:23:19 renewed permit of some sort, this being alcohol.
15:23:23 At that time, we are required to review that based on
15:23:25 the current code, and the standards in that code.
15:23:28 One of the conditions, if you will note on page 6 of
15:23:35 the staff report, is paragraph 3, refuse and service
15:23:39 areas, due consideration shall be given that the

15:23:42 refuse areas meet the conditions of our technical
15:23:44 standards.
15:23:45 I wanted to be clear that the director of solid waste
15:23:48 holds the authority to grant alternatives for
15:23:50 locations of dumpsters.
15:23:51 As I read in the e-mail, the director has ruled that
15:23:54 they need to adhere to the code.
15:23:56 The issue is this dumpster is that it does lie
15:23:58 partially on someone else's property, and there is no
15:24:01 agreement on file with that property owner and this
15:24:04 property owner, that that dumpster may continue to
15:24:07 operate as such.
15:24:09 So I'll let the staff member go further.
15:24:14 I just want to set that up so you understood that this
15:24:16 dumpster actually crosses property lines.
15:24:21 As I said, it was with a hotel use.
15:24:23 That is the one remaining inconsistency finding and
15:24:26 they are requesting waivers as noted on page 1 for
15:24:28 distance separation, from other alcoholic beverage
15:24:32 establishments, and from institutional uses.
15:24:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Officer Miller? I see Cathy
15:24:50 Ginster's in the audience, and you are involved.

15:24:54 Why wouldn't we just put a contingency note on the
15:24:57 approval, just saying if down the road this doesn't
15:25:02 work out, they would have to come back to council come
15:25:04 back to the administration to address that issue?
15:25:12 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I defer to Cathy Ginster as well as
15:25:19 Ms. Kert.
15:25:20 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
15:25:21 The director has the authority to interpret
15:25:23 administrative technical provisions.
15:25:25 And their ability to determine whether or not your
15:25:29 suggestion is sufficient to meet the technical
15:25:31 provision, or some of the other suggestions are
15:25:33 sufficient -- alternatives are sufficient, and they
15:25:37 determined what's been presented right now is not
15:25:39 sufficient.
15:25:40 Perhaps you can have a discussion with staff about
15:25:43 whether or not there's something else to consider to
15:25:44 meet their technical requirements.
15:25:53 >>> Cathy Ginster for the solid waste department.
15:25:58 My understanding for a special use permit, petitioner
15:26:01 has to be in compliance with all the city code.
15:26:03 And there's two solid waste provisions that require

15:26:08 the location of the actual commercial solid waste
15:26:10 dumpster to be located on the property of the
15:26:14 petitioner, or the property owner in this case.
15:26:17 And when there's a change of use, there's an
15:26:21 additional ordinance provision that council passed and
15:26:24 imposed such as a special use permit, that that will
15:26:27 also require review independent of the special use
15:26:31 permit ordinances.
15:26:33 They would be in compliance to be safely accessible,
15:26:36 located within the property line.
15:26:38 And apparently what happened was -- and it's not --
15:26:43 how far back this goes, we all heard different
15:26:47 stories, but one property owner conveyed either
15:26:53 Wingate or the former property owner conveyed that
15:26:55 property to the adjoining neighbor including the solid
15:26:58 waste commercial dumpster.
15:27:02 And so what they submitted, the attorney for the
15:27:06 adjoining neighbor, he submitted what's called a
15:27:09 permanent easement for the dumpster to sit there, but
15:27:11 in fact it wasn't permanent in nature, and it can be
15:27:15 canceled at any time by the parties.
15:27:17 So the question became whether or not if you set a

15:27:21 precedent for someone to come forward to City Council
15:27:24 and they give you a temporary easement, but they can
15:27:27 cancel it at any time to get around code requirements,
15:27:30 and the issue for the zoning department and whether
15:27:35 you would --
15:27:36 >> And that's a little bit where my question was
15:27:38 coming from.
15:27:39 If we are in effect granting an SU-permit then why
15:27:44 wouldn't we just say your permit will lapse if you
15:27:46 lose your conditional authority to H to have that
15:27:51 dumpster where it's cited?
15:27:53 >>> It's a policy decision, my understanding from
15:27:56 Julia Cole, up to the solid waste director because of
15:28:01 setting a precedent.
15:28:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But I know where they are coming
15:28:05 from and they are recommending against any kind of
15:28:07 tweaking or whatever.
15:28:10 What I'm saying, if it's coming to us at the end of
15:28:13 the day, I think we need a legal opinion, can we grant
15:28:16 an SU permit that would have that contingent that said
15:28:22 this will expire if you lose your dumpster ground?
15:28:27 >>REBECCA KERT: No.

15:28:29 Legal department.
15:28:29 No, you could not.
15:28:32 It would become at that point a code enforcement
15:28:34 issue, a violation.
15:28:37 >> Why couldn't we?
15:28:39 >>> because you don't vice-president a prosecute
15:28:40 process right now where the special use revokes or
15:28:43 suspends or somehow goes away if it doesn't meet its
15:28:47 conditions.
15:28:48 If it doesn't meet the companies of the special use
15:28:50 permit it goes to the code enforcement.
15:28:52 That's how you have it set up right now.
15:28:55 >> What's happening here is you have violations of
15:28:57 city code in two provisions so what you would be doing
15:29:01 is entering into an easement agreement to allow them
15:29:05 to, now --
15:29:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay, I give up.
15:29:12 >> But kind of a policy decision, do you want to
15:29:15 control it at the front end or the back end and do we
15:29:17 want to go to the expense later on to try to do code
15:29:20 enforcement?
15:29:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can't somebody move their dumpster?

15:29:25 >>> They don't want to go through the expense of doing
15:29:27 that.
15:29:28 We offered that alternative too.
15:29:29 >> I mean if they had to.
15:29:30 >>> That's what we suggested.
15:29:32 Move your dumpster.
15:29:33 >> But couldn't it stay where it is now, but if for
15:29:36 some reason the agreement changed, couldn't they move
15:29:38 it?
15:29:45 Being very bureaucratic.
15:29:48 We want to make a decision.
15:29:50 So if we want to waive that because we waive lots of
15:29:53 things, why can't we?
15:29:55 >> Legal says when can't do it.
15:29:57 >>> This is a technical provision and you don't have
15:29:59 the authority to waive the technical provisions.
15:30:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
15:30:05 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Ma'am, could I ask you a
15:30:07 question?
15:30:07 Where this dumpster is now, do they have a lease on
15:30:10 that ground that's there, where the dumpster sits?
15:30:13 >>> What they provided was a recorded document they

15:30:17 said it was a permanent easement but not a temporary
15:30:19 one, that they can cancel at any time.
15:30:21 >> So they do have permission to keep that dumpster
15:30:24 there, on that ground?
15:30:25 >>> Yes.
15:30:26 In response to solid waste division's concern
15:30:31 regarding the location of the dumpster, they submitted
15:30:34 a temporary easement.
15:30:35 >> A temporary easement?
15:30:37 >>> They call it permanent easement but actually it's
15:30:40 not.
15:30:40 So the zoning department, if you allow for --
15:30:45 >> Is there any timetable on that document that says
15:30:49 how long they can keep that there?
15:30:51 >>> It can be terminated upon sale of the property or
15:30:56 by mutual agreement of the party.
15:30:58 So they can terminate it at any time.
15:31:04 So there's no time frame either way.
15:31:07 >> So they could be there 20 years and keep that
15:31:10 dumpster there?
15:31:11 >>> They could.
15:31:12 >> So right now you don't want them to keep that

15:31:14 dumpster there?
15:31:16 >>> The department was requesting a permanent easement
15:31:21 for the dumpster to be located on the other neighbor's
15:31:24 property.
15:31:26 Or move the dumpster.
15:31:27 >> Why a permanent easement?
15:31:29 What's the mat we are a temporary easement, the
15:31:31 agreement between two parties?
15:31:34 >> Because legal said when can't do it.
15:31:39 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I don't agree with legal all the
15:31:40 time.
15:31:41 >> Whether or not you accept a permanent agreement,
15:31:49 I'm not a zoning code lawyer.
15:31:52 You set a precedent with what you are doing.
15:31:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess my question -- excuse me.
15:32:01 My question at this point, we can't change it is what
15:32:08 I'm hearing.
15:32:12 >>REBECCA KERT: The applicant wanted to proceed at
15:32:14 this point.
15:32:14 And maybe I can try to make this very concise.
15:32:17 You as City Council do not have the ability to waive
15:32:19 the technical provisions.

15:32:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
15:32:22 >>REBECCA KERT: The director has the ability to
15:32:24 interpret those.
15:32:24 And she has made a decision from what has been
15:32:27 presentdd is not sufficient to meet the technical and
15:32:31 that's where we are.
15:32:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I clearly understand that.
15:32:33 But my question is, since we don't have ability, why
15:32:36 are we here?
15:32:42 >>> Because the petitioner has the right for you to
15:32:45 vote it up or down.
15:32:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right, thank you.
15:32:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: As a matter of law it sounds like you
15:32:50 can.
15:32:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But they tell us you can't do it,
15:32:57 don't have the authority to do it.
15:33:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I just need council to be clear before
15:33:25 you make a presentation, I just don't want to waste a
15:33:28 lot of time F.legal says we can't do it, why go
15:33:31 through the presentation?
15:33:32 That's my point.
15:33:33 Legal says he would can't do this.

15:33:34 Yes.
15:33:40 >>MARY MULHERN: You asked the question I was going to
15:33:42 ask, but I'm still not clear, if the administration
15:33:48 has the ability to turn this down, why didn't they?
15:33:58 If we cannot find --
15:34:08 I understand the administration told them, no, they
15:34:10 are rejected, the petitioner wanted to come forward
15:34:12 anyway, City Council may have the right to address us,
15:34:15 but legal is saying we have no ability from a legal
15:34:18 standpoint to authorize to move forward.
15:34:22 Yes, ma'am.
15:34:22 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:34:24 I understand the issue today.
15:34:26 I apologize.
15:34:27 I honestly was on vacation the last two weeks, and I
15:34:30 saw this case today and I understood the issue as of
15:34:32 this morning.
15:34:33 Normally, I probably would not have brought the case
15:34:36 forward, understanding this is a technical provision
15:34:39 that you cannot change or waive.
15:34:41 I hadn't heard all of the issues, and I wasn't sure --
15:34:44 I have never spoken to the petitioner myself so I

15:34:46 wasn't sure if there was any last-minute understanding
15:34:48 between the parties.
15:34:50 At this point, I would say that the administrative
15:34:53 determination has been made by the director of solid
15:34:55 waste, that that agreement is not acceptable for their
15:34:59 provisions, so at this point, it honestly can't go
15:35:02 forward because it doesn't meet even the special use
15:35:04 conditions of having the solid waste requirements
15:35:07 being met.
15:35:09 I don't know what else to say other than that.
15:35:15 If anything I would say maybe could you continue it so
15:35:18 further discussions could be made.
15:35:19 I'm not sure if the parties can go back and discuss
15:35:21 further that easement agreement, understanding now
15:35:23 that this petition is kind of stalled because of that
15:35:27 issue.
15:35:27 It may push them to do some other discussions.
15:35:33 >>MARY MULHERN: Can we send it, considering it sound
15:35:35 like it wasn't supposed to be here at all --
15:35:38 Right.
15:35:39 >>MARY MULHERN: If you had been there, would you have
15:35:40 told them, no, and that's it or worked it out?

15:35:44 Or are you saying something would have happened
15:35:45 differently?
15:35:46 >>> Usually when there's a technical standard that's
15:35:48 at issue, I personally will do that again and hold it
15:35:51 and try to work something out.
15:35:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Can we move to continue it and send it
15:35:57 back to you to work this out?
15:36:01 >>> I would let the petitioner.
15:36:03 She obviously has some insight.
15:36:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, ma'am.
15:36:07 >>> My name is Lisa munk, agent for the owner of the
15:36:12 Wingate, 3751 east Fowler.
15:36:17 I am going to skip my boards and move right to the
15:36:20 dumpster usual you for as long as you will let me.
15:36:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let me just say, as long as we
15:36:26 let you.
15:36:27 But my issue, is if you can't address the legal how to
15:36:31 resolve this --
15:36:32 >>> I do have one item to present regarding that.
15:36:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:36:38 >>> Would you like a little history?
15:36:42 1996, the banquet center, our neighbor, owned the

15:36:48 whole parcel.
15:36:49 And we were not involved in that till 2003 when we
15:36:54 bought the Wingate.
15:36:55 The Wingate was built in 1997 by a prior owner, and
15:37:00 apparently the construction engineer put the dumpster
15:37:08 four feet over onto the original owner.
15:37:15 I'm going to skip over.
15:37:20 A trustee owner, very difficult to work with, and if
15:37:24 it was up to us we would have quitclaimed deeded the
15:37:27 day we signed off.
15:37:29 A surveying company, when we underwent a refinance,
15:37:38 missed, never knew of it.
15:37:40 In November when we went to our first review that is
15:37:43 the first we knew of it.
15:37:45 They would not relinquish any control, nor will they
15:37:48 sell the property for any price.
15:37:52 We have a possible solution, if the director of solid
15:37:55 waste would consider it, because we are of course
15:37:59 willing to comply with code, and we are upstanding
15:38:06 business owners.
15:38:08 We would like to --
15:38:15 Are you going to he will us you are going to move it?

15:38:17 >>> Moving it will cost us $26,000 is our lowest bid.
15:38:22 We are trying to build a bar in this economy.
15:38:27 We are a family run business.
15:38:28 I do the books.
15:38:29 My brother-in-law is facilities manager, et cetera.
15:38:34 We are willing to prepare, sign and record an
15:38:36 agreement in conjunction with the current easement
15:38:40 agreement that we have recorded on November 14th.
15:38:44 The only remedy that the neighbor would supply stating
15:38:51 if the property or Wingate sells the property to a
15:38:57 buyer, we at the win go gate in our sole control will
15:39:02 notify the city within three business days and agree
15:39:04 to take the financial burden of moving the enclosure,
15:39:13 within 30 days.
15:39:14 We will do that if we don't see reasons to move a
15:39:19 perfectly -- may I?
15:39:22 The pictures show this.
15:39:25 We just put $3500 into redoing the doors from wood to
15:39:30 steel, redoing, repainting and another $26,000 to move
15:39:35 it four feet to the north would require moving a
15:39:38 30-foot light pole, two concrete bollards, it would
15:39:44 reduce one parking space.

15:39:48 It seems to us wasteful, no pun intended, to do such,
15:39:53 when we are trying to increase our revenue.
15:39:56 The cost of doing the bar is about $4,000 and just
15:39:59 materials, since my brother-in-law is a Carpenter.
15:40:02 So we are just a small business.
15:40:04 This is our one property, our one business that
15:40:07 supports our family, and we feel like we have always
15:40:10 been in compliance, to our knowledge, and knowing
15:40:14 this, we appreciate because it helps us clear title,
15:40:18 and we created this easement agreement with the
15:40:21 neighbors in order to help us get to the compliance.
15:40:25 We just ask that solid waste, the director, hear this
15:40:30 possible solution so that we can get this 2(COP-X)
15:40:36 license for our lobby only just to serve our corporate
15:40:39 guests.
15:40:39 We are an upscale limited service property.
15:40:42 We do not --
15:40:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, ma'am.
15:40:49 I thank you so very much for your presentation.
15:40:54 I understand it's family.
15:40:56 But unless legal tells us different that we can accept
15:40:58 this agreement, what I heard earlier we cannot do it,

15:41:02 we can't get to even hearing it really.
15:41:04 So legal has to say to us, not address the issue.
15:41:13 >>REBECCA KERT: I was going to suggest that perhaps
15:41:15 City Council could continue this to a future date to
15:41:17 allow the applicant to get back with solid waste, see
15:41:21 whether or not that would meet the technical
15:41:23 provisions, to be brought before you and meet all the
15:41:29 technical.
15:41:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't mind voting a continuance, but
15:41:36 should they not agree, don't need to come back here
15:41:38 because we can't do anything.
15:41:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We need to --
15:41:48 >>REBECCA KERT: Based on what I heard from staff, it
15:41:50 does not meet the technical requirements, it's my
15:41:53 understanding that it's not appropriate to come back
15:41:56 before you.
15:41:57 We'll have to work on that.
15:42:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just have one comment.
15:42:04 Is there a representative of solid waste here?
15:42:06 I am going to say this loud and clear to solid waste.
15:42:09 Under the old code when we did wet zonings, we didn't
15:42:12 include these issues.

15:42:14 Is that right, council?
15:42:15 We didn't include these issues.
15:42:17 Okay?
15:42:19 And council?
15:42:21 We have now included these issues.
15:42:22 All right?
15:42:23 But now we have staff dealing what I would say rather
15:42:28 hard about it, okay?
15:42:30 Hard-nosed.
15:42:31 How's that?
15:42:33 So I'm just going to say loud and clear to staff, and
15:42:35 with all due respect to solid waste department
15:42:38 director, I think you all need to, especially in light
15:42:41 of what Mr. Caetano preaches to us, we need to ease up
15:42:45 a little bit on business, okay, and try and
15:42:48 accommodate and be flexible than on some of this.
15:42:51 If we can't be, then maybe we need to go back to the
15:42:54 old system where we didn't address these issues in wet
15:42:56 zonings.
15:42:57 So I've said my piece.
15:43:00 >>MARY MULHERN: I agree.
15:43:01 I don't see any reason why it should be in the wet

15:43:04 zoning.
15:43:05 I think we need to revisit them.
15:43:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, we had reasons and they were
15:43:09 pretty good reasons to leave it in the wet zoning but
15:43:11 now all of a sudden a bad reason not to have it so
15:43:14 let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.
15:43:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, you can't just on one.
15:43:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm just saying we need to look at it.
15:43:20 >>GWEN MILLER: I make a motion that we continue.
15:43:24 >> Second.
15:43:26 >>> Cathy Ginster on behalf of solid waste department.
15:43:38 I came in Tuesday night and I tried to figure out a
15:43:41 way to resolve it before I got over here and there's
15:43:44 an attorney representing adjoining neighbor and he
15:43:47 indicated he would provide some sort of change in the
15:43:49 agreement to give notice upon termination of the
15:43:51 easement.
15:43:53 But the policy for the solid waste department is once
15:43:56 you start deviating from code requirements, and
15:43:58 because of the requirements of equal protection, how
15:44:00 do you make exceptions for some people and not others?
15:44:04 >> Okay.

15:44:05 >>> And going down that road about -- and just some of
15:44:08 the policy reasons behind it.
15:44:11 Really willing to listen to any --
15:44:13 You all are going back, and going to deal with it.
15:44:16 There's a motion to continue.
15:44:18 All in favor of the continuance made by -- moved by
15:44:22 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
15:44:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: January 22nd.
15:44:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: At 1:30 p.m.?
15:44:30 >> All in favor?
15:44:32 Opposes?
15:44:32 Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
15:44:35 >>> Thank you very much.
15:44:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open 89.
15:44:39 >> Second.
15:44:45 (Motion carried)
15:44:48 >> I apologize.
15:45:08 I was signing a code provision for you.
15:45:29 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:45:31 Case V-09-36, 1600 east 8th Avenue, unit C-102,
15:45:39 requesting a 4(COP-R).
15:45:41 You will notice the waivers on the page 1 of the staff

15:45:44 report.
15:45:44 They are requesting waivers for the distance
15:45:46 separations for the three uses.
15:45:54 I don't know if you noticed it, council.
15:45:56 Last cycle you had asked for the adjoining
15:45:59 classifications to be included.
15:46:00 And in an effort to be as green as possible and save
15:46:03 paper we combined the zoning along with the aerial
15:46:07 location.
15:46:10 You will notice the zoning classifications are
15:46:12 actually inside each red or pink line.
15:46:15 So you can see them.
15:46:16 If it's YC-1 in this entire area that is the Ybor
15:46:22 City.
15:46:22 This is the folio number for the boundary.
15:46:24 The location itself which is unit C-102 is this
15:46:27 location.
15:46:28 It was the old metropolitan, furniture, store.
15:46:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We are talking upstairs or
15:46:43 downsstairs?
15:46:44 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Downstairs, yes.
15:46:46 So this location here.

15:46:52 It's for a 4(COP-R).
15:46:53 This particular request is about 5200 square feet.
15:47:03 It includes all locations within a thousand feet and
15:47:05 pages 6, 7 and 8 include the general standards to
15:47:08 consider in your decision.
15:47:09 I'm available for any questions.
15:47:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions, council?
15:47:12 Officer Miller?
15:47:13 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
15:47:16 department.
15:47:17 City of Tampa police department has no objections to
15:47:20 this wet zoning.
15:47:20 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Here on behalf of M&J company.
15:47:30 It is a restaurant.
15:47:31 And I request your approval.
15:47:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
15:47:34 Anyone here in opposition to this petition?
15:47:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
15:47:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone in the gray area, don't know
15:47:43 whether you oppose it or not?
15:47:45 All in favor?
15:47:48 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What's the gray area?

15:47:50 >> Not sure if they are voting for or against it.
15:47:53 Okay, motion?
15:48:02 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Special use permit making lawful
15:48:06 the sale of beverages containing alcohol regardless of
15:48:09 alcoholic content, beer, wine and liquor, 4(COP-R),
15:48:13 for consumption on premises only in connection what
15:48:17 restaurant business establishment at or from that
15:48:18 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 1600
15:48:22 east 8th Avenue, unit C-102, Tampa, Florida, as
15:48:25 more particularly described in section 2 hereof,
15:48:28 approving waivers as set forth herein, waiving certain
15:48:31 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
15:48:34 findings, imposing certain conditions, providing for
15:48:37 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
15:48:39 effective date.
15:48:42 >> Second.
15:48:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
15:48:46 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
15:48:48 Opposes?
15:48:49 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent
15:48:53 at vote.
15:48:54 Second reading of the ordinance will be held January

15:48:57 8th at 9:30 a.m.
15:48:59 >>GWEN MILLER:
15:48:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 90.
15:49:02 >> Move to open.
15:49:03 >> Second.
15:49:03 (Motion carried).
15:49:04 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:49:05 I'll be brief.
15:49:08 V-09-37, unit E-202, the old dish location, I'm sure
15:49:20 most of you are aware of the location.
15:49:21 It has the waivers.
15:49:25 Those uses on page 3 of the staff report.
15:49:27 General standards again are on page 6 and 7 and 8 of
15:49:31 the staff report.
15:49:32 Staff has no consideration L objections.
15:49:35 It is a 4(COP-R).
15:49:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer Miller?
15:49:38 >> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police department has
15:49:42 no objections to this wet zoning.
15:49:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner.
15:49:45 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Here on behalf of M&J Wilkow.
15:49:49 Again, it's a restaurant, 4(COP-R). We respectfully

15:49:49 request your approval.
15:49:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here want to address council?
15:49:56 Anyone in opposition?
15:49:57 Nobody has nothing to say.
15:49:59 All right.
15:49:59 Thank you.
15:50:00 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question for Steve.
15:50:04 What is the restaurant?
15:50:05 >>> This was the Dish up above.
15:50:08 And the initial discussions were with a company called
15:50:11 hamburger Marys, and those negotiations are still
15:50:14 ongoing.
15:50:15 But there's also a negotiation about a Spanish
15:50:20 restaurant.
15:50:21 This previously had a 4(COP-R) which dried up and
15:50:24 unfortunately with the downturn in the economy over
15:50:25 the last couple of months that lease with the one
15:50:28 company kind of took a back seat, but they are
15:50:32 actively in the middle of negotiating another lease.
15:50:36 >>MARY MULHERN: So dish had a 4(COP-R), the one we
15:50:39 just approved didn't have --
15:50:43 >>STEVE MICHELINI: It used to be called the

15:50:44 metropolitan.
15:50:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close?
15:50:49 >> So moved.
15:50:52 >> Second.
15:50:52 (Motion carried)
15:50:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to say that before we
15:51:00 approve this that we are talking about Ybor, where we
15:51:04 are trying to cut down on the bars and liquor, and we
15:51:08 are just quickly pushing through two more liquor
15:51:14 licenses.
15:51:15 So I just want us to be aware of what we are doing.
15:51:18 I know they are both restaurants.
15:51:20 And that's good.
15:51:21 >>STEVE MICHELINI: We worked very extensively, YCDC
15:51:26 and --
15:51:28 Okay.
15:51:28 Thank you, sir.
15:51:32 >>GWEN MILLER: An ordinance for first reading,
15:51:33 repealing ordinance a special use permit S-2 for
15:51:42 alcoholic sale of small venue making lawful alcohol
15:51:46 regardless of alcoholic content beer, wine and liquor
15:51:49 4(COP-R) for consumption on premises only in

15:51:51 connection with a restaurant business establishment at
15:51:55 or from that certain lot, plot or tract of land
15:51:58 located at 1600 east 8th Avenue, unit E-202,
15:52:03 Tampa, Florida, and more particularly described in
15:52:06 section 3 here providing waivers as set forth herein,
15:52:12 waiving certain restrictions as to distance based upon
15:52:15 certain findings, imposing certain conditions,
15:52:18 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
15:52:20 providing an effective date.
15:52:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded by
15:52:22 councilman Dingfelder.
15:52:24 All in favor I ever?
15:52:26 Opposes?
15:52:28 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda and Saul-Sena
15:52:29 being absent at vote.
15:52:32 Second reading of the ordinance will be held January
15:52:34 the 8th at 9:30 a.m.
15:52:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 91.
15:52:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open.
15:52:43 >> Second.
15:52:45 (Motion carried).
15:52:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Continuing.

15:52:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, continuing.
15:52:50 Okay.
15:52:51 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:52:53 Case V 08-82 located at 811 South Howard Avenue,
15:52:57 requesting a 4(COP-R) in conjunction with a restaurant
15:52:59 for beer, wine and liquor sales.
15:53:03 There are 14 spaces provided.
15:53:05 Only 12 are required.
15:53:07 They are actually overparked for code.
15:53:09 There are several waivers noted on the first page of
15:53:11 the staff report.
15:53:13 Including reduction of size of the screen enclosure,
15:53:18 reduction in the buffer requirements, reduction in
15:53:22 many of the parking standards as well as the minimum
15:53:26 space width from it 9 to 8 feet, backout from 26 to 28
15:53:30 feet and the adjacent backup from 7 to 4 feet,
15:53:33 allowing 100 percent compact parking spaces, as well
15:53:36 as the waivers for the distance separation, barring in
15:53:40 mind this is an existing location.
15:53:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is this the Thai restaurant?
15:53:50 >>> Right.
15:53:51 Just south of Inman, north of Bristol.

15:53:53 This is the wet zoned area that's proposed.
15:54:00 It is the Thai restaurant as you can see and it is
15:54:02 existing as well as the parking area and the dumpster.
15:54:06 They are asking to lock in the existing conditions
15:54:07 that they have, with a 4(COP-R).
15:54:15 Right now they have a 2(COP-R).
15:54:17 They are asking for the ability to sell liquor.
15:54:21 And retain the "R" classification.
15:54:25 There are no objections from staff.
15:54:26 >> Any proposed hours of operation?
15:54:28 >>> Not that I can see.
15:54:30 Oh, I'm sorry.
15:54:31 I'll let the petitioner answer that.
15:54:37 >>> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police.
15:54:39 City of Tampa police department has in objection to
15:54:43 this wet zoning.
15:54:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
15:54:45 >> Grace Yang, 201 North Franklin Street, suite 2200.
15:54:52 I have been sworn.
15:54:53 Here representing, it's my pleasure to represent the
15:54:56 petitioner Damrong, Inc. With me today are two of the
15:55:03 owners, Randall Noels, this in the audience, the proud

15:55:09 owners and also live across the street from the
15:55:12 restaurant.
15:55:13 Damrong has owned this restaurant since 2000 as
15:55:17 previously mentioned, there is an existing beer and
15:55:19 wine license.
15:55:20 They are asking in this petition to be able to
15:55:23 increase up to full liquor, to help with their
15:55:27 restaurant.
15:55:29 It's a family friendly Thai restaurant.
15:55:32 It will be an "R" zoning.
15:55:34 And we have been able to get support from the local
15:55:40 neighbors and the Parkland estate civic club --
15:55:42 Anyone here in opposition?
15:55:43 Anyone here in opposition?
15:55:46 Yes, question?
15:55:48 >> Hours?
15:55:49 >>> we did agree to self-imposed conditions.
15:55:52 The hours are to close by 11 p.m. Sundays through
15:55:56 Thursdays, and to close by midnight Thursday through
15:56:00 Saturdays.
15:56:01 We also agreed to volunteer there will be no outside
15:56:05 live music, so that in consideration of the

15:56:07 neighborhood there would be no disturbance with any
15:56:10 outside music being broadcast across.
15:56:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:56:13 >>> I do have an additional petition to enter into the
15:56:17 record for you all as well as some materials about
15:56:19 their commitment to the community.
15:56:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:56:21 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question.
15:56:24 This might be for the proprietors.
15:56:26 But what is a typical alcoholic drink that you serve,
15:56:31 a traditional Thai cocktail?
15:56:33 I can't think of anything.
15:56:34 >>> Something like a Mai Tai.
15:56:40 They offer a variety of different drinks.
15:56:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close?
15:56:50 So moved.
15:56:52 >> Second.
15:56:52 (Motion carried).
15:56:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena, will you read?
15:56:58 You don't want to read it?
15:57:03 That's right.
15:57:03 Mary.

15:57:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance repealing
15:57:06 ordinance number 95-150 approving a special use permit
15:57:10 S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, small venue and
15:57:13 making lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol
15:57:16 regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine and
15:57:18 liquor, 4(COP-R), for consumption on the premises only
15:57:21 in connection with a restaurant business establishment
15:57:24 at or from that certain lot, plot or tract of land
15:57:27 located at 811 South Howard Avenue, Tampa, Florida as
15:57:30 more particularly described in section 2 hereof
15:57:33 approving waivers as set forth herein wavering certain
15:57:37 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
15:57:40 findings, impose imposing certain conditions,
15:57:42 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
15:57:45 providing an effective date.
15:57:46 Do I need to mention the hours?
15:57:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do I hear a second?
15:57:55 >> I did.
15:57:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Linda
15:57:59 Saul-Sena who is slowly losing her voice.
15:58:03 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
15:58:07 I believe that concludes --

15:58:09 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda and
15:58:11 Dingfelder being absent at vote.
15:58:13 Second reading of the ordinance will be held January
15:58:15 8th at 9:30 a.m.
15:58:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That concludes all of the items on the
15:58:19 agenda.
15:58:22 Ms. Kert, before you leave, we did all items before
15:58:25 the item 76 and 77.
15:58:27 Do we have the city attorney so that we can address
15:58:31 how they want to proceed on that?
15:58:33 Secondly, it is my understanding that Wingate has an
15:58:36 issue concerns still they want to be open by Super
15:58:39 Bowl time to take advantage of the tourism.
15:58:54 >> (speaking off microphone).
15:58:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, then.
15:59:02 City attorney, how do you want us to proceed?
15:59:19 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:59:20 They made the request because they want to be open
15:59:22 before Super Bowl.
15:59:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
15:59:24 I think they are negotiating out there.
15:59:26 I guess councilman Dingfelder said, you may want to

15:59:28 join our discussion, I guess.
15:59:30 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I see petitioner standing in the
15:59:32 hallway talking.
15:59:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I thought they were trying to
15:59:37 negotiate.
15:59:38 My understanding is they want to be open by Super
15:59:40 Bowl, and it's presenting a problem to continue the
15:59:45 item.
15:59:45 I don't know how we can resolve it because legally
15:59:47 when can't do anything.
15:59:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: There are a couple of housekeeping
15:59:56 matters, items 84, 85 and 92 have to be removed from
16:00:01 the agenda.
16:00:01 No affidavits filed.
16:00:02 Can't be heard.
16:00:03 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
16:00:04 >> Second.
16:00:05 (Motion carried).
16:00:06 >>GWEN MILLER: While we are waiting, I would like to
16:00:10 make a statement.
16:00:10 This morning I made a motion for Chief Hogue to meet
16:00:15 with his district three officers about Central Park --

16:00:21 Tampa park.
16:00:22 But I talked with the owner of Tampa park, and the
16:00:25 reason they are there is because they request for the
16:00:28 officers to come in there and supervise because they
16:00:31 have been having gangs coming in there.
16:00:32 So when the people move out of Central Park they are
16:00:35 getting moved over there.
16:00:36 And there's about 30 gang members over there so they
16:00:39 have officers there to supervise the apartment area so
16:00:45 I withdraw my motion.
16:00:47 I would like to ask Chief Hogue to meet with me and
16:00:51 not the district three officers and let them do their
16:00:53 job.
16:00:54 That's my motion.
16:00:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Asking for a motion to rescind your
16:00:58 previous motion?
16:00:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
16:01:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We can do that, right?
16:01:02 It's been moved and seconded.
16:01:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, sir.
16:01:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved by Councilwoman Saul-Sena again.
16:01:07 The motion is rescind the previous action relative to

16:01:10 Tampa park apartments, that the owners and the police
16:01:14 department negotiation into the access that's taken
16:01:21 place.
16:01:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You are about to lose a quorum.
16:01:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Caetano, come back.
16:01:27 We need your motion.
16:01:29 We need your eye.
16:01:30 All in favor say Aye.
16:01:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Voting on the motion.
16:01:34 >>GWEN MILLER: On my motion.
16:01:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Removing Tampa park apartments.
16:01:38 The motion is to rescind earlier action, that we asked
16:01:43 Chief Hogue and the district three major Honeywell to
16:01:46 meet, and to meet with the -- to resolve the issue,
16:01:51 the police officer -- I shall through in Tampa park,
16:01:54 but we have received calls from them saying they
16:01:56 requested the action by the Tampa Police Department.
16:02:02 >>GWEN MILLER: The owner.
16:02:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Because of gang activities and that's
16:02:04 why they are there, so she asked to rescind the prior
16:02:07 action.
16:02:08 Moved and seconded.

16:02:09 Are you in favor?
16:02:10 Say Aye.
16:02:11 Opposes?
16:02:11 Okay.
16:02:17 Then we will stand in recess for about five minutes.
16:02:26 Okay?
16:02:27 Recess about five minutes.
16:02:29 Thank you.
16:02:30 (brief recess)
16:14:04 [Sounding gavel]
16:14:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
16:14:33 order.
16:14:33 Roll call.
16:14:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
16:14:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
16:14:42 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
16:14:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
16:14:48 We move with item 76 and 77.
16:14:52 We need to go back to item 88, that is the Wingate
16:14:58 Wyndham property.
16:15:02 To continue the item to January 8th.
16:15:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I understand that there has

16:15:07 been an agreement by the petitioner working with the
16:15:14 staff to move this up to January 8th at 1:30.
16:15:20 Again, council, there was no appearance by the public
16:15:22 here, but with regard to notice, the second reading
16:15:26 will be an advertised public hearing on the 22nd.
16:15:28 So I don't foresee any objection or problem to having
16:15:31 it set for January 8th at 1:30 p.m., if that's
16:15:36 council's pleasure.
16:15:37 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
16:15:38 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second.
16:15:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It would actually be --
16:15:44 The motion to rescind, the first motion, the petition
16:15:52 V-09-08.
16:15:54 All in favor suggest if I by saying Aye.
16:15:56 Opposes?
16:15:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to continue to January 8th at
16:15:59 1:30.
16:16:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion is to continue V-09-08
16:16:05 which is the Wingate Wyndham to January 8th at
16:16:11 1:30 by Councilwoman Miller.
16:16:13 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second.
16:16:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman

16:16:17 Caetano. All in favor signify by saying Aye.
16:16:20 Opposes?
16:16:21 Okay.
16:16:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have several things that are set,
16:16:28 and that, council, is probably your only double header
16:16:32 because coming back from the holidays.
16:16:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: At this time we will take up item 76
16:16:38 and 77, I believe.
16:16:39 Mr. Fletcher?
16:16:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Fletcher is outside the room, but
16:16:48 I was given materials by Bill Johnson who spoke this
16:16:52 morning and he asked me to give them to council so I
16:16:55 will just distribute them for your information.
16:16:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
16:17:02 >>> Thank you.
16:17:51 I appreciate your indulgence in continuing.
16:17:53 This we were very focused on trying to get this
16:17:55 completed today.
16:17:56 Unfortunately, it appears that there have been
16:17:59 multiple negotiations going on at the same time that
16:18:01 our office is not necessarily directly involved with.
16:18:05 And I am not in a position to recommend to you any

16:18:07 agreement at this time because I'm not quite sure what
16:18:12 is in either one of them.
16:18:13 So I would suggest that we look at continuing this at
16:18:18 this time.
16:18:20 I apologize.
16:18:24 I apologize for being in this position.
16:18:27 But --
16:18:37 Yes.
16:18:39 >>> Julia can explain the provisions where we are.
16:18:44 But I am not in a position to recommend basically.
16:18:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Recommend we continue.
16:18:52 What date?
16:18:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: January 8th.
16:18:56 I don't know -- February 8th, you do have a
16:19:00 morning session and afternoon session and a night
16:19:02 session that day.
16:19:03 You have a special called meeting on the 15th to
16:19:07 handle two items at 10 a.m.
16:19:09 And then the next regular meeting after that is
16:19:12 January 22nd where you have no night meeting.
16:19:16 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I would recommend the 8th.
16:19:18 I think there's a meeting of the minds as to what

16:19:20 should be in here including with Mr. Baron, but
16:19:23 unfortunately we have -- we have had concurrent
16:19:28 negotiations, you might say, and discussions and we
16:19:30 need to bring it in in one document and I am not in a
16:19:34 position to recommend that.
16:19:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, multiple negotiations, what do
16:19:37 you mean?
16:19:38 I need to make clear, though, that the city attorney
16:19:47 represents the City of Tampa.
16:19:51 Okay?
16:19:51 Let me make that clear because the only recommendation
16:19:53 I am going to hear is what you make to this board.
16:19:56 And be prepared because you are the one that's going
16:20:00 to have to defend it.
16:20:01 Make that very clear.
16:20:03 >>> And that's why at this point I'm not sure what
16:20:05 representations were made to who, and why some
16:20:10 provisions had been offered up as suggestions to us at
16:20:14 this point, and I'm not in a position to recommend
16:20:17 that it go forward at this point, because I don't have
16:20:19 a document that I'm comfortable, that I know Watt
16:20:22 says.

16:20:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern, Saul-Sena,
16:20:27 Dingfelder.
16:20:27 >>MARY MULHERN: I was going to ask that we continue
16:20:30 this anyway.
16:20:31 And I would like you to know what we are being asked
16:20:35 to sign, so that I'm glad that you are asking that.
16:20:38 But I would like to say -- and this really doesn't
16:20:44 have any bearing on particulars of whatever this
16:20:51 agreement is, but as a generality, what has been in
16:20:58 the drafts that I've seen speaks to legislative and
16:21:03 policy issues.
16:21:07 And I would like that the City Council should be able
16:21:19 to address those things.
16:21:22 And I think I would at least like to discuss with you
16:21:25 personally how any kind of agreement at this point
16:21:31 will affect our stance on the code and the policies
16:21:37 that we want to set.
16:21:38 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I may comment to that point.
16:21:43 Because this is unusual for a settlement agreement
16:21:47 that we bring to you, to have such a significant
16:21:50 policy impact, we have been more what I would call
16:21:56 flexible in working with some of the community

16:22:02 advocates and activists and members of council, and
16:22:07 quite frankly that is what has brought us to a place
16:22:10 where I'm not comfortable going forward, because folks
16:22:15 have been discussing things today, and then bringing
16:22:17 them to us, and quite frankly I'm not comfortable with
16:22:21 that process.
16:22:21 >>MARY MULHERN: And the point that I'm making is I'm
16:22:25 not comfortable with it either because we are the
16:22:27 legislative body that's supposed to be writing these
16:22:29 regulations.
16:22:30 And we are the ones that should be discussing the
16:22:35 policy decisions and discussing them and having
16:22:39 hearings in discussion with the public and with the
16:22:41 neighborhood association.
16:22:42 So I appreciate your asking for a continuance.
16:22:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think, to follow up on what Ms.
16:22:55 Mulhern said, I am very pleased that we are going to
16:22:59 continue to allow you to refine this.
16:23:03 What is going to be before us in the future is
16:23:06 certainly better than what you, the administration,
16:23:09 brought us several weeks ago, because, to their
16:23:12 credit, the billboard companies are willing to listen

16:23:15 to council and listen to the public and work on
16:23:18 improving things.
16:23:19 But, Mr. Fletcher, I have to say -- and this does not
16:23:23 reflect on you personally, because you weren't here
16:23:26 when this happened, but twice recently, both with this
16:23:30 and the TECO franchise agreement, council has been in
16:23:33 the position, with the public, of being handed
16:23:36 something blind and told to deliver it without having
16:23:41 the opportunity for public involvement, for our
16:23:45 setting policy creation.
16:23:47 This is not the best way for the public to have good
16:23:51 policy.
16:23:52 This is not satisfying to the public, nor to us as
16:23:55 council members.
16:23:56 I know that these are situations that you inherited.
16:24:00 Please do not bring things like this to us in the
16:24:02 future.
16:24:02 It is not the way things are supposed to be
16:24:05 structured.
16:24:09 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: To address that issue, what we are
16:24:11 dealing with, with these signs are dealing with vested
16:24:13 property rights.

16:24:14 We are trying to find a way to move forward with a
16:24:17 process that will allow those rights to be recognized
16:24:22 in a way that it is leased, impactful on the
16:24:26 community.
16:24:28 I have an obligation to negotiate an agreement that I
16:24:31 think best represents, the interests of the city.
16:24:39 We have worked very hard to include interested people
16:24:43 in this process.
16:24:44 I feel like, quite frankly, we may have gone too far
16:24:47 in that process and that's why we are not able to give
16:24:49 you an agreement here today, unfortunately.
16:24:52 But we will continue to work through that process, and
16:24:55 we will have a recommendation for you at the next
16:24:57 meeting.
16:25:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
16:25:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to say, when you say
16:25:08 too far, I think it's important every morning that all
16:25:10 of us wake up and say our boss is the community.
16:25:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
16:25:16 Mr. Fletcher, I appreciate your suggestion, because I
16:25:21 agree with you.
16:25:22 Lots of moving targets, you know.

16:25:24 I'm sitting here reading and not understanding, and I
16:25:27 think, again, like I said an hour ago, this is
16:25:32 forever, too.
16:25:32 And I think we better know what we are agreeing to,
16:25:35 and all the ramifications of it.
16:25:37 So with all due respect to the industry folks who have
16:25:40 spent a lot of time, and Mrs. Cole who spent a lot of
16:25:44 great time on this and to yourself, I think we need to
16:25:47 continue it.
16:25:48 I also don't think we need to rush it to January
16:25:50 8th.
16:25:51 I think we need to do it on the 22nd.
16:25:53 Previously he would said, okay, we got a rash because
16:25:55 of some Super Bowl constraint.
16:25:57 But if we are getting into January, they are not going
16:25:59 to be putting up these billboards for Super Bowl.
16:26:02 It's just not realistic.
16:26:03 So I prefer us not imposing everybody -- imposing on
16:26:07 everybody to ruin their holidays, you know,
16:26:11 negotiating this, to be ready for January 8th,
16:26:14 including council members.
16:26:18 That's why I would suggest, and I'll make a motion for

16:26:20 the 22nd.
16:26:21 Then I have one other statement.
16:26:23 Let me put the motion out there and make my statement.
16:26:26 Council members, between now and whenever we do
16:26:28 reconvene on this issue, everybody needs to go back to
16:26:31 their own districts, or city-wide to look at the
16:26:35 entire city, and you need to think about where you
16:26:37 want or are comfortable with digital, big digital
16:26:41 billboards, and where you are not comfortable with
16:26:43 them in the city.
16:26:44 Okay?
16:26:46 For us district people we can look at our own
16:26:49 districts city-wide, look all over the city.
16:26:51 Because when we come back, we need to be very, very
16:26:54 comfortable in agreeing that forever, there's a
16:26:58 possibility.
16:26:59 I just ask the question in the hallway.
16:27:01 I said, okay, there's a billboard on South Westshore,
16:27:04 right by Gandy.
16:27:06 I said, under this revised agreement, it appears to me
16:27:09 that that billboard could be swapped out to digital.
16:27:11 It's just south of Sunset Park, okay?

16:27:14 Now, I don't believe the folks in Sunset Park are
16:27:16 aware of that, that we are right on the precipice of
16:27:21 signing an agreements of that would allow a digital
16:27:23 billboard blazing like this in Sunset Park on South
16:27:27 Westshore.
16:27:28 I just pick that because that's my district.
16:27:30 You might have other parts of your district, the city
16:27:33 that you are concerned about.
16:27:34 There are other parts of the city on the interstate or
16:27:36 maybe on Fletcher, or Busch or something like that,
16:27:40 where we don't care and we would welcome digital
16:27:42 billboards.
16:27:43 Fine.
16:27:44 But I think as a little homework assignment we need to
16:27:47 think about that before we come back to this issue.
16:27:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
16:27:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I'm city-wide so I care about
16:27:57 the whole city.
16:27:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We all care about the whole city,
16:28:01 yeah.
16:28:01 >>MARY MULHERN: This was my point, that I don't
16:28:05 understand, and I don't want to approve any kind of

16:28:08 agreement that is making major policy decisions as
16:28:19 part of a settlement agreement.
16:28:22 So I would like to see an agreement -- I don't see why
16:28:25 we have to decide that, when a settlement comes back
16:28:29 to us, unless there are digital billboards that are
16:28:41 already vested.
16:28:42 Do we have those?
16:28:43 Those are new technologies since this happened.
16:28:45 And I'm not comfortable and don't see any reason why
16:28:48 this council should be giving rights to digital
16:28:52 billboards at all, within a settlement agreement where
16:28:56 they are not even part of the litigation.
16:29:03 I think that's a big decision.
16:29:04 Honestly I'm not sure if I have everyone seen a
16:29:07 digital billboard.
16:29:08 So we not only need to look in our billboards, we need
16:29:12 to look at other cities and what they have done, and
16:29:14 especially Los Angeles, who regrets even approving
16:29:17 them at all.
16:29:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, all I want to say is I don't
16:29:21 want to get into the merits of the case if we are
16:29:23 going to come back.

16:29:24 We'll have a time to discuss.
16:29:26 There's no need to discuss it today if we are going to
16:29:28 discuss it on the 8th, 22nd or whatever.
16:29:38 >>I don't think that should become part of the
16:29:40 settlement.
16:29:41 We can respect the negotiated settlement to private
16:29:44 clients.
16:29:44 But not writing policy that we know nothing about.
16:29:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: While I may agree with that, what I am
16:29:52 saying is there's no reason to get into the merits of
16:29:54 the issue in that we are going to continue it, it's
16:29:58 going to come back anyway.
16:29:59 And let me also say, Mr. Fletcher, at the end of the
16:30:03 day, people I support neighborhood involvement and
16:30:12 meeting with whoever they need to meet with, attorney.
16:30:14 You should do that.
16:30:15 But when you stand at this podium, you should be
16:30:21 presenting us what you have worked out legally so we
16:30:25 can act on your recommendation to us.
16:30:29 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes, sir.
16:30:31 And that's exactly why we are not presenting you with
16:30:33 an agreement today, because I do not feel comfortable

16:30:35 bringing forward what we have.
16:30:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I spoke at our first hearing about
16:30:41 having a map, a map of the city with little dots, and
16:30:45 I haven't seen that.
16:30:45 Maybe we developed it and I just haven't seen it.
16:30:48 But I prefer if you shared it with us all, so when we
16:30:51 do what Mr. Dingfelder suggested, which is we do our
16:30:54 little drive-around and look and see where the dots
16:30:57 are, we have something to go on.
16:30:59 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We do have a map with dots where
16:31:02 the signs are, for clear channel.
16:31:05 There was some discussion about creating a map of
16:31:08 zones where things could and could not go.
16:31:09 That proved to be too difficult with the various
16:31:15 limitations within the agreement.
16:31:16 We were not able to do that but we can show you where
16:31:18 the signs are.
16:31:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would prefer a map, but if you
16:31:22 can't do that, if you can give us maybe examples.
16:31:28 Or, if you prefer, we could give you examples and you
16:31:30 could say that would be appropriate or not.
16:31:32 But I really don't yet have a sense of where these

16:31:35 would go.
16:31:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion on the floor is to
16:31:42 continue -- councilman?
16:31:43 Councilman?
16:31:45 The motion is to continue to January 22nd.
16:31:48 At what time, councilman Dingfelder?
16:31:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 1:30, I guess.
16:31:52 >> The motion is to continue to January 22nd.
16:31:56 January 22nd at 1:30.
16:31:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, to inquire, just so the
16:32:02 record is clear, again this is something that's here
16:32:04 as a resolution, a negotiated settlement.
16:32:08 It is not a public hearing.
16:32:09 If you have it at 1:30, is it council's intention that
16:32:12 those people who wish to speak to it do so, and not to
16:32:16 do it in advance of it, to do it at public comment
16:32:18 during the beginning of the agenda as it normally
16:32:21 appears?
16:32:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let's take it up when it comes
16:32:29 to that time.
16:32:30 Right now it's our last meeting.
16:32:32 It's the holiday.

16:32:34 We have plenty of time to decide.
16:32:36 I'm sure that my recommendation would be pretty much
16:32:38 the one I made this morning.
16:32:43 But I just think we don't need to make that decision
16:32:46 today.
16:32:46 The one we need to make is continued to the 22nd.
16:32:49 All in favor of the motion signify by saying Aye.
16:32:52 Opposes?
16:32:52 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Thank you.
16:32:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to receive and file?
16:32:59 >> So moved.
16:33:00 >> Second.
16:33:00 (Motion carried)
16:33:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there anything else that needs to
16:33:04 come before council?
16:33:09 Okay.
16:33:11 Public comment.
16:33:11 Anyone want to address council?
16:33:13 Public comment?
16:33:13 Anyone here want to address council?
16:33:15 (Off camera)
16:34:49 (Meeting adjourned)

16:35:02

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