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Thursday, January 8, 2009
9:00 a.m.

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[Sounding gavel]
09:02:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
09:02:18 order.
09:02:18 The chair will yield to the honorable Linda Saul-Sena.
09:02:21 >> Good morning and happy new year.
09:02:23 It is my great privilege to introduce us to the person
09:02:26 who is going to lead us in the invocation, Todd Smith,
09:02:30 who has come to Tampa in the last few months as the
09:02:34 Executive Director of the Tampa Museum of Art which
09:02:35 will be opening this November, 2009.
09:02:37 So if everyone would please rise for the invocation

09:02:40 and remain standing for the pledge of allegiance.
09:02:44 >> Good morning.
09:02:46 Please join me.
09:02:46 Almighty God, we come before you today to thank you
09:02:49 for the gifts that you have bestowed upon us and to
09:02:51 acknowledge the expectations that you have set for us,
09:02:54 and in keeping, we ask that you give our leaders the
09:02:57 vision to inspire us to rise to new challenges.
09:03:00 We ask that you give us the power to use the
09:03:03 creativity that you have provided, to solve the
09:03:05 complex problems we face.
09:03:07 We ask that you give our community the compassion to
09:03:10 embrace and celebrate the diversity that both defines
09:03:13 and redefines us.
09:03:15 And we ask that you give the artists the courage of
09:03:18 their convictions to surround us with beauty and the
09:03:21 courage to explore new ideas, these we ask in your
09:03:24 name.
09:03:24 Amen.
09:03:27 (Pledge of Allegiance)
09:03:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:03:44 Let me just say also before our next presentation, we

09:03:48 wish all the council members happy new year.
09:03:51 And we look forward to a great year here at Tampa City
09:03:55 Council.
09:03:56 The honorable John Dingfelder will now make a
09:04:02 presentation.
09:04:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Come on up and circle around.
09:04:23 Good morning, council.
09:04:25 Happy new year.
09:04:27 And what a good morning it is.
09:04:29 Well, it's a mixed blessing morning.
09:04:36 We are honoring our good friend here who is retiring
09:04:39 from many, many years, a lifetime of services to the
09:04:42 City of Tampa.
09:04:43 And obviously we have Mr. Scott here who brought his
09:04:47 wife and his mom, Mr. Scott and Mrs. Scott, and of
09:04:51 course his family back here and look at the turnout of
09:04:57 our fine code enforcement department.
09:05:04 So let's talk about our good friend here and don't be
09:05:08 shy.
09:05:08 >> Director of code enforcement, business tax
09:05:13 division.
09:05:13 On behalf of the members of code enforcement, the

09:05:16 business tax division, I want to say thank you for
09:05:18 recognizing Mr. Harold Scott.
09:05:20 I have had the pleasure of actually working with him
09:05:22 for the past 35 years since I have been in code
09:05:26 enforcement very closely since about May 1st.
09:05:29 I could tell you without any hesitation he's been a
09:05:32 mentor, a friend, and someone that all of us here at
09:05:37 code enforcement go to on a regular basis for his
09:05:41 guidance.
09:05:42 And actually fellowship.
09:05:44 Without any doubt, he will be very sorely missed.
09:05:51 People can leave the City of Tampa and nice things are
09:05:59 said but Harold Scott is a different person.
09:06:01 I already miss him.
09:06:02 His office was right by mine and I still walk by there
09:06:05 and I look in there expecting to see him there.
09:06:09 All I can say on behalf of all of us, Harold Scott,
09:06:12 it's been an absolutely pleasure and honor to work
09:06:15 with you.
09:06:16 Thank you.
09:06:18 [ Applause ]
09:06:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Harold, let me read some of your

09:06:29 accomplishments that we are going to commend you for
09:06:30 in our certificate here.
09:06:34 Harold Scott, Jr., recently retired from the City of
09:06:37 Tampa after 37 years of service.
09:06:39 It's right and proper that we recognize your
09:06:41 contribution to our city and our community.
09:06:44 Harold Scott, Jr., was educated in the public schools
09:06:46 of Hillsborough County attending Blake high school.
09:06:49 Upon graduation he received an AA degree from junior
09:06:56 college.
09:06:56 Beginning his career with the city, the model cities
09:07:00 training counselor, Harold received six promotions
09:07:02 during his first eight years, in more and more
09:07:06 responsible positions including city inspector,
09:07:08 community development specialist, housing and urban
09:07:10 development supervisor, and of course most recently
09:07:13 code enforcement supervisor.
09:07:16 He makes himself available at all times to assist his
09:07:19 fellow citizens, the staff, serving the City of Tampa
09:07:21 with great honor and pride.
09:07:24 Of course, Harold also has great faith and is a member
09:07:28 of the greater Bethel missionary Baptist church where

09:07:33 he serves as deacon of the ministry.
09:07:38 Tampa City Council is proud to recognize your many
09:07:40 contributions to our city.
09:07:42 We acknowledge you greatly and will miss you
09:07:44 tremendously.
09:07:45 We miss you and we wish your family good health and
09:07:48 happiness upon your retirement.
09:07:50 Congratulations.
09:08:00 >> And we will not miss your invocation because we are
09:08:02 going to have you back.
09:08:04 Because I tell you, when I hear your voice in the
09:08:06 morning I'm inspired.
09:08:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Scott, before you speak, let me
09:08:11 ask each council member that has a few words.
09:08:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Then rebuttal.
09:08:18 [ Laughter ]
09:08:20 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to say to Mr. Scott I know
09:08:22 you are glad to get away from me.
09:08:27 [ Laughter ]
09:08:27 I have enjoyed working with you.
09:08:28 There has never been a time that I spoke to you, and I
09:08:31 spoke to you in the community and you did a very,

09:08:35 very, very good job and that community is going to
09:08:37 miss you.
09:08:39 Can he keep his badge so I can call him and he can go
09:08:46 in?
09:08:47 But truly you are going to be missed in the community.
09:08:49 I have heard from a lot of people they that they don't
09:08:52 know what they are going to do with you gone but we
09:08:55 will still get the job done because they will still be
09:09:01 there. So have a good retirement but still think
09:09:04 about us.
09:09:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Harold, you have been an
09:09:08 inspiration to all of us.
09:09:11 You came with dark hair and you are leaving with dark
09:09:14 hair.
09:09:16 [ Laughter ]
09:09:19 You have got to bottle that and try to sell it.
09:09:22 But you have done an outstanding job in the city and
09:09:25 always been aboveboard, and always saw the facts on
09:09:28 both sides of the issue.
09:09:29 Being a code enforcement officer is not an easy thing
09:09:33 to do.
09:09:34 More than likely when you look at the job that all of

09:09:36 you have to perform, it's the most difficult thing to
09:09:38 do, because both sides are upset with you, our side
09:09:43 and the other side.
09:09:49 I know Jake has learned a lot from you, and we have
09:09:54 learned a lot from you, and we are really appreciate
09:09:58 for all you have done for the city, especially you,
09:10:00 Mr. Scott.
09:10:04 >> Mr. Scott, working with you has always been a
09:10:07 pleasure.
09:10:08 You have always been a professional and a gentleman.
09:10:13 >> I have never had any dealings with you.
09:10:24 But I have had dealings with Mike Slater.
09:10:29 We had free advertising going on Bruce B. Downs.
09:10:33 One day they went up there.
09:10:39 There was so much of it up there.
09:10:40 But from what I hear, you are a great guy.
09:10:42 And good luck.
09:10:49 >> I'm sorry I didn't get to work with you much.
09:10:52 I have heard great things about you.
09:10:54 I want to say if you need a next career, radio.
09:10:57 What a voice.
09:10:57 >> On behalf of all the council members, thank you

09:11:03 again.
09:11:03 And I will say that most think we are brothers.
09:11:11 I saw your brother Harold.
09:11:14 [ Laughter ]
09:11:15 So I want to thank you for many years of service here
09:11:18 with the City of Tampa, and, you know, actually we go
09:11:23 back before I became part of City Council way back
09:11:25 when I was -- you have always been very cordial,
09:11:33 taking your job very seriously, very professional.
09:11:36 And I want you to know that this government is going
09:11:38 to miss you.
09:11:40 Not only this government but this community will miss
09:11:41 you, what you have done and what you mean to all of
09:11:45 us.
09:11:46 And thank you so much for also your religious
09:11:49 conviction and coming in and praying with us and for
09:11:52 us.
09:11:52 So God's speed with you and God's blessings upon you.
09:11:56 Thank you.
09:12:09 >> To John, to all the mayors and all the council
09:12:17 persons, present and past, let me tell you, this is
09:12:20 hard to say.

09:12:26 I've come a long way.
09:12:29 Tampa was -- it wasn't a cesspool.
09:12:36 That word shouldn't be used.
09:12:38 But Tampa, you would know it from what it was back
09:12:40 then when I started.
09:12:42 I too cannot travel in some areas of Tampa.
09:12:45 I have had a wonderful, wonderful, glorious career
09:12:50 here with the City of Tampa in the different
09:12:54 divisions, operations that I was instructed to
09:12:57 oversee, supervise, whatever, play a part of, and to
09:13:01 get back with all the different persons responsible.
09:13:06 It's just been great.
09:13:07 It's hard to see from my shoes, because urban renewal,
09:13:14 then to minimum standards, and now to department of
09:13:16 code enforcement.
09:13:17 And let me tell you, that wasn't a book.
09:13:23 Use common sense.
09:13:26 We had to learn why we were going through things,
09:13:28 trying to narrow, as Mr. Miranda said, there was a lot
09:13:32 going on.
09:13:32 Today it's easy.
09:13:43 But past, past staff members, my bosses, they never

09:13:50 called me boss, we are friends.
09:13:52 But it's with I say that and with true love, I say
09:13:56 that, because without them, starting again, I got to
09:14:00 go back to Lucy, without them I couldn't have done it.
09:14:08 I didn't do it alone.
09:14:09 I did it with all the staff persons and with those
09:14:12 council members, some present and past: So I truly
09:14:16 thank you.
09:14:16 It's not easy to say this.
09:14:18 And I'm saying it trying to keep from talking and
09:14:20 saying too much.
09:14:22 But there's a lot involved, there's a lot I can say.
09:14:25 And I thank you so much.
09:14:27 And I want to say to council, department of code
09:14:31 enforcement has a special place to me in the city.
09:14:34 The quality of life's standards are the standards that
09:14:36 govern all of us and governs our future and says what
09:14:42 we can and cannot do.
09:14:43 A lot of things aren't politically right or wrong.
09:14:48 But things have to be done in a way that's expedient,
09:14:51 and nonpartisan but that's correct and proper.
09:14:56 Sometimes you have got to get out of the box and see

09:14:58 things from council, from the political aspects,
09:15:03 diversity, and see it in the right way to be straight
09:15:07 and fair.
09:15:08 And that's what I always try to do.
09:15:10 I want to do the right thing.
09:15:12 And with chapter 19, chapter 199, chapter 5, all that
09:15:20 we steady for, 27, it was perfect.
09:15:22 It was great for us to do what we did, and to keep all
09:15:25 these things in mind.
09:15:27 But we worked together.
09:15:34 And I accepted all those challenges.
09:15:35 And I accept today those challenges.
09:15:38 And I will be on the scene still doing some things
09:15:42 after I take a two or three month vacation.
09:15:45 But wherever my money can take me, I am going to enjoy
09:15:50 it a little bit.
09:15:51 But I am going to be involved.
09:15:52 I love what I do.
09:15:53 And it's not the paycheck.
09:15:56 The nights we worked and the weekends, you can't pay
09:15:58 me for the things that we have done in the past just
09:16:02 to solve the problems.

09:16:03 And there's no way to tell you how we did that.
09:16:06 It just had to be achieved and resolved for the
09:16:08 benefit of the City of Tampa and the citizenry, not
09:16:14 always in those ways we thought best to go and do but
09:16:17 we solved the problem and it was great.
09:16:19 I could go on and on and on.
09:16:21 And I know you have got other businesses, items to
09:16:24 discuss this morning.
09:16:25 But I love ya.
09:16:26 And I thank you.
09:16:27 And you will be hearing from me.
09:16:29 And it been great each and every one of you.
09:16:38 We talked on the phone, the attorney and all of us.
09:18:44 >> Roll call.
09:18:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:18:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:18:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:18:55 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Here.
09:18:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:18:56 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:18:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.

09:19:01 Okay. We will review the agenda.
09:19:03 >> Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of City
09:19:06 Council.
09:19:06 Before you, you have the addendum to the agenda.
09:19:08 We begin with a walk-on.
09:19:10 I apologize for this not making the agenda.
09:19:12 Council member Mulhern has asked to prepare a
09:19:14 resolution repointing members of the City Council vis
09:19:21 citizens advisory budget and committee.
09:19:25 Councilman Mulhern.
09:19:26 >>MARY MULHERN: I think at our last meeting or maybe
09:19:29 the two prior to this one I heard from Chairman Scott
09:19:43 you don't have anyone at this time.
09:19:45 >> I will be forwarding that to you.
09:19:47 >> Great.
09:19:48 So the resolution today is to reapprove -- to approve
09:19:52 the reappointment for this one.
09:19:54 The appointees that were appointed by council last
09:20:00 fiscal year, and to make it retroactive to October
09:20:03 1st, 2008, for those six citizen advisors to form
09:20:13 the citizens advisory for the budget.
09:20:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if you wish to take it up

09:20:20 now you can take it up now if you wish to move it or
09:20:23 you can put it on the agenda for a vote later.
09:20:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Take it right now.
09:20:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Move the resolution.
09:20:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:20:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:20:34 All in favor say Aye.
09:20:36 Opposes?
09:20:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you, downfall thank you,
09:20:40 council.
09:20:40 You have a request to make take it up on January 22nd.
09:20:55 I'm just wondering if it's more appropriate to have it
09:20:58 during a council meeting or during a workshop
09:21:01 depending on the length of the presentation.
09:21:06 >> I can make inquiries and bring it back at the end
09:21:09 of the meeting.
09:21:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think we may want to do a workshop
09:21:13 on it.
09:21:14 Okay.
09:21:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, you have substitutions, item
09:21:20 43 to add units 14 to be addressed.
09:21:24 Item 66 you have a request to substitute the

09:21:26 ordinance, and that will be distributed during the
09:21:32 council meeting by the legal department.
09:21:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 66.
09:21:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, item number 66.
09:21:41 Item number 20 is regarding the contract for sale and
09:21:47 purchase of property at 8014 Interbay Boulevard, a
09:21:51 request from the chief of staff to remove that item
09:21:53 from the agenda.
09:21:54 Items of note, the revisions to chapter 27, item 48
09:22:02 will be to open and continue that public hearing to
09:22:05 March 5th because of a continuance of the first
09:22:08 public reading.
09:22:13 The same with 53 to continue to February 19th.
09:22:16 That has to be taken up at the time.
09:22:17 Item number 64, when council wishes to do that or
09:22:20 council can choose to do that, no action should be
09:22:23 done at the time because I believe it is a public
09:22:25 hearing.
09:22:25 Item 64 will be a request by the petitioner to
09:22:28 withdraw the wet zoning petition for our Taqueria
09:22:35 cantina and burrito joint restaurant.
09:22:36 In case anybody wishes to appear for that.

09:22:39 That will be withdrawn.
09:22:41 And item number 65, a closure petition in Palmira
09:22:50 subdivision is going to be a request for continuance
09:22:52 to January 22nd at 1:30.
09:22:54 Item number 17, council, was a request for permission
09:22:57 to use the seal for the Tampa Bay Lightning hockey
09:23:00 club.
09:23:00 It was going to be a request for a resolution to be
09:23:03 prepared.
09:23:03 The club has informed the chair that the resolution is
09:23:06 prepared, it is on the agenda, so if council wishes to
09:23:09 move the resolution as item 17, council can do so to
09:23:19 move the resolution, to adopt the resolution.
09:23:24 That's item number 178.
09:23:26 That would be to amend the agenda to adopt the
09:23:28 resolution as prepared and accepted.
09:23:32 Item number 39 is going to be a request to -- it is
09:23:38 presently scheduled on the agenda for the a pole
09:23:41 hearing to be scheduled on February 19.
09:23:44 I believe it is going to be a request at that time to
09:23:47 have the appeal hearing scheduled instead on March
09:23:50 5th, 2009 at 1:30 o'clock p.m.

09:23:54 That is the property at 123 south Hyde Park Avenue and
09:23:58 also a wording correction, a letter from Mark Bentley,
09:24:04 requesting the appeal hearing be scheduled for a date
09:24:07 later than the date of February 19th and I believe
09:24:09 the agreed upon date will be March 5th so that
09:24:12 will be taken up at that time.
09:24:13 I believe, council, on the than that there are no
09:24:15 other changes to the agenda that I am aware of.
09:24:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other items to be pulled from the
09:24:20 agenda?
09:24:20 Motion for the changes?
09:24:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Moved.
09:24:23 >> Second.
09:24:25 (Motion carried).
09:24:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:24:27 We'll have public comment at this time.
09:24:29 Those who wish to address council may come, you have
09:24:31 three minutes to state your name and address for the
09:24:33 record, please.
09:24:44 >>> Spencer Kass, vice-president of operations,
09:24:47 landmark realty, 1001 North Howard Avenue.
09:24:50 First let me wish everybody a happy holiday and happy

09:24:53 new year.
09:24:54 I'm here to request that item 34 on the consent agenda
09:24:57 be pulled for discussion.
09:24:59 Item 34 is the lingerie bowl.
09:25:03 This is scheduled to take place five blocks from my
09:25:06 office.
09:25:06 I have gone through the file.
09:25:08 The file doesn't contain the sign-off for any of the
09:25:13 people that it should.
09:25:14 The chief of police, director of public works, mayor,
09:25:17 none of those sign-offs are in this file.
09:25:20 Besides that, they are expecting from 25 to 3500
09:25:26 people and they are asking for approval to have
09:25:29 between five and six thousand people.
09:25:32 That's crammed into an area that's both commercial and
09:25:34 residential.
09:25:37 There is no plans for TPD to be here.
09:25:40 There's no plan for any sort of supervision.
09:25:43 They are asking for a full-blown wet zoning at the
09:25:45 time of this event which includes hard liquor.
09:25:55 I don't think it should be up for discussion.
09:25:58 The fact I don't see anywhere -- the entire City of

09:26:06 Tampa process.
09:26:07 I can tell you that when they want to have this event
09:26:10 in Scottsdale, Arizona, their City Council basically
09:26:14 delayed this so long, it was such public opposition to
09:26:17 it, trying to have NFL sponsor.
09:26:29 There needs to be security, some parking spaces.
09:26:32 They are only providing for 338 spaces, 352 of which
09:26:36 are for staff.
09:26:37 I don't think that's sufficient parking.
09:26:46 I would ask you until we know how many TPD officers
09:26:50 they are going to employ.
09:26:54 Look out for drunk drivers, look out for the
09:26:56 businesses, the neighborhood.
09:26:57 Until we can see a full security plan that can be
09:27:02 looked at by both the neighborhood and myself I would
09:27:04 ask this be delayed.
09:27:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I must admit in going through the
09:27:09 agenda the last couple of days this one did jump out
09:27:11 at me, lingerie bowl.
09:27:16 I wasn't familiar with that as a sporting event.
09:27:19 I would agree with Mr. Cass to the extent I think we
09:27:22 should pull it and ask staff to come down here and

09:27:24 talk to us and see what this event is about.
09:27:28 I'm not even sure of the location that Spencer alluded
09:27:34 to loosely.
09:27:35 Why don't we pull 34 for staff report when we get to
09:27:38 it?
09:27:40 >>MARY MULHERN: Actually, Spencer, do you know exactly
09:27:43 where they want to do this?
09:27:48 >>> For the record, Spencer Kass.
09:27:50 There's a record in the file.
09:27:52 This is to the south of that west end project.
09:27:58 There's also two churches located nearby this area as
09:28:00 well as the residential and commercial buildings.
09:28:02 >>MARY MULHERN: Did you get public notice?
09:28:05 >>> No.
09:28:06 This was placed on the consent agenda.
09:28:18 It doesn't have sign-offs on it.
09:28:20 And if you have the site plan, I can submit it.
09:28:25 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Who is sponsoring this?
09:28:27 >>> From what I can tell it been sponsored by a
09:28:31 company out of California called horizon production
09:28:35 TV.
09:28:36 That's what the application says on it.

09:28:38 So not somebody local.
09:28:40 And it's not NFL related.
09:28:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I wanted to thank you for bringing
09:28:45 this to our attention.
09:28:49 You're a wonderful protector of your neighborhood.
09:28:52 >> Happy to do it.
09:28:53 Thank you.
09:28:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll take this up after public
09:28:56 comment.
09:28:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe there was a motion and a
09:29:00 vote to do that.
09:29:01 Did you wish to take it up?
09:29:02 >> I'll carry the motion once we get through the
09:29:05 public comment.
09:29:06 Next speaker.
09:29:11 >>> I'm Richard Formica, 8700 block of Pawnee Avenue
09:29:16 in council voting district number 7.
09:29:20 I am concerned about my neighborhood.
09:29:22 I would like to say that I have worked with Mr. Scott
09:29:25 in the past and we are certainly going to miss him.
09:29:28 He is a man of great ethical stature.
09:29:32 But my primary reason here this morning is to exercise

09:29:35 my right and duty as a registered voter.
09:29:39 There is a member of this council who is in financial
09:29:42 trouble because of, in my opinion --
09:29:46 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Point of order.
09:29:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Point of order probably takes
09:29:52 priority.
09:30:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If you will read our rules on personal
09:30:08 attacks.
09:30:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would also like to speak.
09:30:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe, if I can, it says the
09:30:21 members of the council should address -- rule 5-B --
09:30:25 should first identify themselves business full name
09:30:27 and address.
09:30:28 The chair shall rule out of order any member of the
09:30:31 public who shall speak without being recognized and
09:30:34 who shall not address council from the podium or other
09:30:37 established speaker area.
09:30:39 Comments shall be directed to the council as a body
09:30:41 and not to individual council members.
09:30:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
09:30:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to thank you for doing two
09:30:52 things.

09:30:54 One, you sent me a letter on Lowry Park about how
09:30:57 everyone didn't look happy.
09:31:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, sir.
09:31:02 >> You don't look happy today either.
09:31:05 Smile a little bit.
09:31:06 >>> Okay, thank you.
09:31:07 >> I followed up with a lot of things you said.
09:31:09 I went to Wal-Mart.
09:31:10 I went to K-Mart.
09:31:11 I went to automobile dealers no. One looked happy.
09:31:14 I went to target.
09:31:15 They didn't look happy.
09:31:16 I went around the streets of Tampa.
09:31:18 They didn't look happy, either.
09:31:20 You also wrote a letter to the editor and I commend
09:31:24 you for that.
09:31:25 You named four council members.
09:31:28 Am I correct?
09:31:31 You only named four.
09:31:35 When the vote was taken there was five that voted on
09:31:37 the affirmative.
09:31:38 >>> Was this about the franchise agreement, sir?

09:31:43 Yes.
09:31:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:31:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You may continue.
09:31:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Was that your point of order, the
09:31:56 reading of the rules?
09:32:00 >> Yes.
09:32:00 You may continue.
09:32:04 >>> As I was saying, there is a member of this council
09:32:08 who is in financial trouble because of in my opinion
09:32:12 poor business management practices.
09:32:13 I do not believe this elective representative burdened
09:32:18 under a debt of nearly $180,000 can make honest, fair
09:32:21 and unbiased judgments while participating in this
09:32:25 council's meetings.
09:32:26 It has been said in the past that councilman Caetano
09:32:30 has been an advocate for small businesses.
09:32:32 Yet it appears he has not paid his rent for his
09:32:34 business location or for some of the advertising for
09:32:38 his business in some time.
09:32:41 The issue is how can this elected representative whose
09:32:44 credibility is in question and whose managerial skills
09:32:49 as dubious continue to speak for the members of his

09:32:51 district?
09:32:52 I say he cannot and that he should resign immediately.
09:32:56 Thank you for your attention.
09:33:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I will only respond by saying in the
09:33:03 future, I think our rule allows people to address
09:33:06 council but they can't take personal attacks.
09:33:08 So I would encourage in the future to refrain from the
09:33:13 name being used.
09:33:15 Secondly, I will say, and I will recognize Mr.
09:33:19 Miranda, we are in difficult times.
09:33:24 We all recognize that.
09:33:29 I keep up with a lot of news.
09:33:31 GM is in trouble.
09:33:32 All the big auto carmakers.
09:33:42 AG.
09:33:42 We are bailing them out.
09:33:44 United States federal government is bailing them out.
09:33:47 They are going to have an opportunity to continue.
09:33:50 I just want to put that on the record.
09:33:52 That nobody is exempt from difficult times.
09:33:55 But yet, at the same time, these other agencies are
09:34:01 being billed out by billions of taxpayer dollars.

09:34:06 No one on this board is being bailed out.
09:34:08 Okay?
09:34:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to echo your
09:34:12 sentiments.
09:34:13 I think you hit some points of interest.
09:34:14 I certainly have no disregard or disrespect for anyone
09:34:18 who wants to come here and make a statement about me
09:34:20 or anyone else.
09:34:21 And about me, that's no problem with me.
09:34:25 There has never been a point in history when these
09:34:28 things have happened like they are happening in this
09:34:30 country, and you haven't seen the worst of it yet.
09:34:34 When you start to look at what is the political
09:34:37 process to get elected, answer a set of questions that
09:34:46 everybody is going to answer the same yes.
09:34:49 Oh, yeah, I'm for this.
09:34:50 Oh, no, I'm not for this that.
09:34:54 But they never check the detailed background of who
09:34:56 you are, that I November.
09:34:58 You can run for office and rightly so in this country
09:35:00 because up to today it's still a democracy.
09:35:03 I don't know what's going to happen here tomorrow.

09:35:06 When you start to realize that you don't have to have
09:35:10 an education to run for office.
09:35:13 Thank God, you don't.
09:35:14 You don't have to be a rich person to run for office.
09:35:17 Thank God, you don't.
09:35:18 You don't have to be anyone with long hair.
09:35:23 Thank God you don't.
09:35:25 You don't have to dress a certain way.
09:35:26 You don't have to be a certain color.
09:35:28 You don't have to be anything.
09:35:30 But to live in the city, to meet the criteria.
09:35:33 I'm only talking about city government.
09:35:36 It's up to the public to decide who they want to elect
09:35:39 or not.
09:35:40 And I have been on both sides of this issue.
09:35:43 I have gotten more votes and I have gotten lesser
09:35:46 votes.
09:35:47 But what I'm saying is, just because an individual has
09:35:51 had a financial trouble, are we going to ask the other
09:35:55 individuals, whoever they are in the city, that work
09:35:58 inside of government and outside of government, to
09:36:01 leave the city?

09:36:04 I don't think so.
09:36:05 Are we going to ask those individuals who there's been
09:36:10 a 61% increase?
09:36:11 And you can check the record what I am telling you.
09:36:13 Increase in bankruptcy in this area, 61%.
09:36:16 Are we asking them to disappear?
09:36:20 What makes this country great is when you have a
09:36:27 problem, they reach out to help you, they don't slap
09:36:31 you in the hand and forget about you.
09:36:33 That's the difference between democracy and some other
09:36:36 form of government.
09:36:36 I'm not speaking to you, I'm speaking to the public.
09:36:38 So what I'm saying is, what better chance to show --
09:36:45 there has been no bailout that I know of.
09:36:47 And the bailouts that we have given out, you have
09:36:50 given out $350 billion to banks and an additional 15
09:36:54 billion, but no one knows where it's at.
09:36:59 It's gone to the banks to buy more banks.
09:37:02 That was a real smart move.
09:37:03 So nothing -- when you change dollars, you create a
09:37:07 multiplier.
09:37:08 That makes people employable and employed.

09:37:12 When you look at the auto industry -- and I love my
09:37:15 good brothers and sisters who work there -- the moneys
09:37:18 that you gave them come March 31st, if you don't
09:37:22 dop the right thing we are going to get our money
09:37:24 back, there will be no money back because there will
09:37:25 be no money left.
09:37:28 And they think they produce the best car in the world
09:37:31 which I'm sure they are cable of doing.
09:37:33 At the end of the day there's going to be no buyers.
09:37:36 So they are going to produce a product that they can't
09:37:38 sell because the public says, I don't need a shiny new
09:37:40 car every day.
09:37:42 I'm in dire needs of saving to pay the bills, to go
09:37:46 out and eat.
09:37:49 It's very unaffordable now to do other things that you
09:37:51 were doing in the past.
09:37:52 So this thing here about got to get out of office, you
09:37:59 have got to do this, well, I guess if I get called Jay
09:38:04 walking, is that the same crime?
09:38:08 There's people got elected that got criminal records
09:38:11 but they straightened out their lives.
09:38:13 There's things that happened all over this country for

09:38:15 the betterment of democracy that makes a lot of sense,
09:38:19 if you really look at the issues.
09:38:20 But to start shooting shots at everyone, you can take
09:38:24 shots at me, sir, all you want, because I'm immune.
09:38:27 I got the shell of a turtle.
09:38:31 But it's a cheap shot and I'm going to tell you right
09:38:36 to your face it's a cheap shot.
09:38:38 You must have something you don't like in this
09:38:39 gentleman.
09:38:40 And I didn't mention your name.
09:38:42 I didn't mention his name.
09:38:44 So that doesn't require you to speak.
09:38:46 Thank you, chairman.
09:38:48 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to also say that -- ask
09:38:55 that you remember that we all are here as employees of
09:39:00 you.
09:39:01 And we go through a pretty difficult process to get
09:39:04 here.
09:39:06 Probably a lot harder than applying for a job and
09:39:08 getting it.
09:39:09 When don't spend years doing that.
09:39:12 And to add to what Mr. Miranda said, we do have to

09:39:16 file financial disclosures, which all of us have done,
09:39:19 and that is really what the only thing that you can
09:39:21 look at to make sure that the person that you are
09:39:26 going to be voting for is the right person.
09:39:27 And I would just like to say, as Mr. Miranda said,
09:39:31 there but for the grace of God go I.
09:39:34 Any one of us, it doesn't matter what socioeconomic
09:39:40 strata we are in.
09:39:41 And none of us are big bank owners, so I don't think
09:39:45 any of us are getting bailed out.
09:39:46 So we are the same as the rest of you.
09:39:49 And I also feel like one of the few jobs that people
09:39:54 can feel at all secure, and not secure but slightly
09:39:57 more secure than if you are in the private sector, if
09:39:59 you work in government, at least you have a little bit
09:40:02 of security.
09:40:04 And I don't think we should be asking, you know,
09:40:07 government -- eliminating jobs of government workers
09:40:11 right now because that's about the only thing where
09:40:14 you have a fighting chance to keep your job.
09:40:16 So I feel that I would like to ask that the public
09:40:23 give council and your elected officials more

09:40:28 consideration, and totally in support of my
09:40:32 colleagues, in whatever tough financial times they are
09:40:37 in.
09:40:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:40:40 It doesn't call for a response, sir.
09:40:41 But you have three minutes next time we meet.
09:40:43 >>> Thank you for the opportunity to respond.
09:40:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, sir, you don't have opportunity.
09:40:49 >>> I don't?
09:40:52 >> No.
09:40:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Time for the next speaker.
09:40:55 >>> Democracy in action.
09:40:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But you can come back the next meeting
09:41:00 to speak.
09:41:03 >>> Good morning.
09:41:04 My name is Clarence Cownes, 33rd street in Tampa,
09:41:12 Florida 33605.
09:41:14 My subject is called operation elimination of the
09:41:18 long-time black residents of the courier city Oscawana
09:41:24 neighborhood by the City of Tampa in the courier city
09:41:28 Oscawana neighborhood association.
09:41:32 That's right.

09:41:32 The City of Tampa and the neighborhood association is
09:41:36 in bed together and the sheets are real dirty.
09:41:41 One particular resident is an 87-year-old black woman
09:41:45 who has been a resident in the neighborhood for over
09:41:47 40 years.
09:41:49 Thanks to the City of Tampa and the neighborhood
09:41:51 association, this resident will be unable to park in
09:41:54 the front because of no parking, or at the rear
09:41:58 because of people parking in the alley having sex.
09:42:03 The police officers said they are just having fun.
09:42:06 I'm here today to ask to stop this racist act.
09:42:09 I was told by Jonathan Scott, traffic studies
09:42:12 engineer, that this action is a done deal.
09:42:17 That was already approved by City Council.
09:42:20 I know it will be a good idea for the city to put an
09:42:23 apron, that's a driveway, in the front of her home on
09:42:26 the west side.
09:42:28 They can she can park on her property and have the
09:42:31 people in the cars and the alley can continue to have
09:42:34 fun by having sex.
09:42:36 My understanding of this is that the City of Tampa in
09:42:40 the courier city Oscawana neighborhood association

09:42:44 want to force the blacks out of the neighborhood, and
09:42:46 that three City Councilmen are a part of this racist
09:42:50 act.
09:42:51 Furthermore, if the City of Tampa can pay for lights
09:42:56 downtown they can pay for a driveway to correct this
09:42:58 racist deed.
09:42:59 By the way, the 87-year-old black woman is my mother.
09:43:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
09:43:07 >>> And I have some papers I would like you to see
09:43:10 that was detailed, and also my niece called the mayor
09:43:22 who is a doctor in Atlanta and she grew up in that
09:43:24 area, grew up in that area, and about four black
09:43:29 families in that area.
09:43:30 Now you want to run them all out because the area is
09:43:34 becoming to be white and my understanding is you want
09:43:36 it to become lily white.
09:43:38 My neighbor Mr. Simon Johnson was supposed to be here
09:43:41 today but couldn't make it because he had to take his
09:43:43 wife to the hospital, stated since October the code
09:43:45 enforcement has been harassing him.
09:43:51 >>GWEN MILLER: I will check into it.
09:43:54 >>> That's all.

09:43:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have Councilwoman Mulhern and then
09:44:00 councilman Dingfelder and Councilwoman Miller.
09:44:04 >>MARY MULHERN: I was listening and speaking with the
09:44:08 Courier City Oscawana neighborhood association.
09:44:11 I'm a city-wide council person so I talk to all the
09:44:16 neighborhoods.
09:44:16 And the idea behind changing the parking regulations
09:44:20 was to protect people like your mother, so they were
09:44:23 able to park on the streets and wouldn't have to deal
09:44:28 with the -- I don't think it has anything to do with
09:44:32 race.
09:44:33 I think it has a lot more to do with use, and the --
09:44:45 I'm really very concerned and upset and want to talk
09:44:49 to people about this, and I would like you to call my
09:44:52 aide at 274-7071 and we'll work to resolve this.
09:44:58 But I think the last thing that we want to do is to
09:45:01 force long-time residents out of the neighborhood.
09:45:04 We want to keep them there.
09:45:06 And I really honestly don't think -- I know the people
09:45:11 in that neighborhood association, and I think it is
09:45:13 not about that at all.
09:45:14 It's really about taking back your neighborhood

09:45:18 streets for the people who live there including your
09:45:26 mother and her neighbors, and I want to talk about it
09:45:29 and find a solution that can Al lay all of your fears
09:45:34 and worries about this.
09:45:38 I don't know how long you are going to be able to
09:45:40 stay.
09:45:40 I'll talk to you when we have a chance if you could
09:45:43 stay for a few minutes.
09:45:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Councilman.
09:45:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Dung I defer to councilman Miller.
09:45:51 >>GWEN MILLER: I was going to have my aide come out
09:45:53 and meet with him but since she's going to talk to him
09:45:58 I defer to you.
09:45:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The only thing I would say, I can a
09:46:01 sure you and the community the actions this council
09:46:04 has taken relate to parking.
09:46:07 On the street.
09:46:07 And have nothing to do with race, obviously.
09:46:16 But I'm sure it's come now as somewhat of a surprise.
09:46:20 We have a major parking problem in Courier City, as
09:46:23 she's aware of and I'm sure you are aware of, and we
09:46:27 need to do something to address it.

09:46:29 We have several community meetings out there where
09:46:31 everybody was invited.
09:46:33 And we came up with a solution.
09:46:36 It might not be a perfect solution.
09:46:38 And maybe we need to visit her issues specifically
09:46:41 considering her age and difficulties.
09:46:44 But it sounds like several council people are going to
09:46:48 jump into this.
09:46:49 I'm sure our traffic and transportation folks will
09:46:52 jump into it as well.
09:46:53 But we appreciate you coming down, bringing this to
09:46:55 our attention, and we'll look into it.
09:46:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
09:47:00 I tried to locate the exact house.
09:47:01 This is just the other side of Cleveland on the
09:47:04 right-hand side, the second block, on the west side?
09:47:07 >>> Yes.
09:47:07 >> That family was real close with my family years
09:47:13 back when my uncle's aunt lived next door, and lived
09:47:18 in the two-story brick home, isn't there a two-story
09:47:23 apartment-like structure close by?
09:47:24 >>> Talking about Melville Avenue.

09:47:28 >> Right.
09:47:29 Melville Avenue.
09:47:36 I know what you are talking about. And I spoke to
09:47:38 your mother maybe 10, 15 years ago when I used to stop
09:47:42 there and visit the relative from Miami who was really
09:47:44 not my relative, my uncle's aunt, and had conversation
09:47:50 at that time, I think both of the parents were alive
09:47:54 then.
09:47:55 I remember that very well.
09:47:56 And we'll look into it and see what we find.
09:47:59 But thank you for coming.
09:48:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you for coming down, and as
09:48:03 already has been said, several council members will
09:48:06 certainly look into it.
09:48:08 And Councilwoman Mulhern will have her office meet
09:48:12 with you.
09:48:13 >>> Can I say one more thing?
09:48:15 >> Yes.
09:48:15 Sir, your time limit is up.
09:48:17 >>> Okay no, problem.
09:48:20 Just business as usual.
09:48:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

09:48:22 Someone is going to meet with you.
09:48:24 Okay?
09:48:24 Thank you.
09:48:29 Anyone else from the public?
09:48:30 Okay.
09:48:35 We need to take action and then have our presentation.
09:48:39 Motion made for the resolution on the item 34.
09:48:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if it's your desire to have
09:48:47 that moved to the end of staff reports?
09:48:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That will be fine.
09:48:52 Yes.
09:48:53 All in favor?
09:48:54 Opposes?
09:48:56 Okay.
09:48:56 Now we have a presentation.
09:48:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If I could introduce Ms. Silk.
09:49:03 Sherri silk does a tremendous job with the Tampa
09:49:07 Humane Society.
09:49:08 Rescuing animals, placing animals and all the good
09:49:13 things that she and her volunteers and staff perform
09:49:16 for us.
09:49:17 She's got some great announcements for us about things

09:49:19 going on in the community.
09:49:20 Sheri, thank you for your hard work.
09:49:22 >> Thank you very much.
09:49:23 Good morning.
09:49:24 I wanted to inform you that the Humane Society of
09:49:26 Tampa Bay is going to have their first free, I repeat,
09:49:30 free shot clinic for Tampa residents.
09:49:33 It's going to be held in Sulphur Springs park this
09:49:36 Saturday.
09:49:36 >> Could you go to the Elmo?
09:49:39 There you go.
09:49:40 We have a little overhead.
09:49:41 >> It's going to be at Sulphur Springs park this
09:49:44 Saturday from 10 until 2.
09:49:46 And what we are doing for the first 500 residents to
09:49:50 come with their dog or their cat, we are going to give
09:49:53 them a free rabies, which is a concern for public
09:49:55 health, and distemper and PARVO vaccination which is a
09:50:01 disease that kills animals.
09:50:03 I have been asked by the media why we are doing this.
09:50:06 Last march our shelters were flooded with people's
09:50:09 pets because they couldn't afford to feed them so we

09:50:12 started a food assistance program and people can come
09:50:14 to our shelter and get free dog and cat food.
09:50:17 People lately have said we can't afford shots to keep
09:50:21 them healthy, so our public dollars, our donor
09:50:25 dollars, to get the vaccine so we can vaccinate these
09:50:29 people's pets.
09:50:31 Hillsborough County animal services will be there to
09:50:32 provide licenses, have free food, free leashes, free
09:50:36 collars.
09:50:37 As you know, the citizens of Tampa are hurting
09:50:39 financially.
09:50:41 Many of these folks have their pets and they love
09:50:43 their dogs and cats.
09:50:44 And if we can do this and help them keep their
09:50:46 animals, that's the goal of this program.
09:50:48 And as well attended as I believe it will be, we will
09:50:52 have other shot clinics in the future as we can afford
09:50:55 to do.
09:50:55 I want to let you know and invite you out if you are
09:50:58 in the area of Sulphur Springs this Saturday between
09:51:00 10 and 2.
09:51:01 And today we are going to be at pets in the park which

09:51:03 is a joint adoption venture.
09:51:05 We do it four times a year for the downtown folks with
09:51:07 animal services.
09:51:09 And we'll have all kinds of cute puppies and dogs and
09:51:11 cats and kittens from 11 to 2 in the park.
09:51:15 >> I want to thank you for what you do in the
09:51:20 community because we need to take care of our animals.
09:51:23 Thank you.
09:51:24 How many animals do you all help in the course of a
09:51:26 year?
09:51:27 >>> Last year we did just under 5,000 adoptions, which
09:51:30 is good.
09:51:31 And we did over 10,000 spays and neuters, low cost,
09:51:36 for the community.
09:51:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:51:39 Does anyone wish to have a reconsideration on a
09:51:41 legislative matter?
09:51:47 Committee reports.
09:51:48 Councilwoman Miller, public safety.
09:51:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Move resolution number 2.
09:51:53 >> Second.
09:51:53 (Motion carried).

09:51:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Public works, councilman Dingfelder.
09:52:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: As vice chair I move 3 through 11.
09:52:07 >> Second.
09:52:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:52:18 Finance Committee.
09:52:19 Councilwoman Mary Mulhern.
09:52:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Move 12 through 15.
09:52:28 (off microphone)
09:52:29 Then motion to adopt.
09:52:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's do it separately.
09:52:43 >> It's already incorporated as an amendment so you
09:52:45 can move the whole thing.
09:52:46 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
09:52:47 I move item 12 through 19 and -- 12 through 17.
09:52:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
09:53:01 (Motion carried)
09:53:04 Building and zoning.
09:53:05 Councilman Caetano.
09:53:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to move items 18
09:53:09 through 29.
09:53:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 20 has been pulled.
09:53:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item 20 has been removed from the

09:53:22 agenda.
09:53:26 18 through 29 excluding number 20.
09:53:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:53:30 (Motion carried)
09:53:34 Councilman Dingfelder, transportation committee.
09:53:36 >> Move 30 through 35 excluding 34 which were pulled,
09:53:43 talk about later.
09:53:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:53:46 (Motion carried).
09:53:47 >> Motion to set the others for public hearing.
09:53:52 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to move to be set for
09:53:54 public hearing 36 through 39.
09:53:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 39 is being continued to March
09:53:59 6th?
09:54:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Does that need a motion to amend that
09:54:04 petition, madam clerk?
09:54:07 I believe, council, what would be appropriate would be
09:54:09 to set 36 through 38 and then we'll address 39.
09:54:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Move 36 through 38.
09:54:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
09:54:17 (Motion carried).
09:54:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe 39 it would be the

09:54:21 appropriate motion to amend that to set it for March
09:54:29 5th, 2009 at 1:30 p.m.
09:54:32 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
09:54:33 (Motion carried).
09:54:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Then a motion to set the public
09:54:36 hearing.
09:54:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion to set item 39.
09:54:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
09:54:45 (Motion carried).
09:54:51 >> We two to our second hearings.
09:54:53 I would like to open the public hearing on all those
09:54:55 items.
09:54:58 >> Second.
09:54:58 (Motion carried).
09:55:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If you are going to be addressing
09:55:03 council, please stand and be sworn at this time.
09:55:09 (Oath administered by Clerk).
09:55:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just for clarification so the clerk's
09:55:20 record is clear those public hearings would be from 40
09:55:22 to 55.
09:55:23 Is that correct?
09:55:24 >> That's correct, yes.

09:55:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can, madam clerk, are there
09:55:27 items to be received and filed?
09:55:29 Okay, thank you.
09:55:35 If there have been any ex parte communications please
09:55:37 disclose those prior to the vote.
09:55:39 Thank you.
09:55:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 40.
09:55:44 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
09:55:47 Item 40 through 47 require certified site plans prior
09:55:51 to second reading.
09:55:52 Those plans have been certified by the zoning
09:55:55 administrator and presented to the clerk.
09:55:57 Staff is available for any questions.
09:56:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
09:56:07 council on item 40?
09:56:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:56:09 >> Second.
09:56:09 (Motion carried).
09:56:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: An ordinance for adoption on second
09:56:16 reading.
09:56:17 (off microphone) an ordinance repealing ordinance for
09:56:25 alcoholic beverage sales large venue and making lawful

09:56:29 the sale of beverage containing alcohol regardless of
09:56:32 alcoholic content beer, wine and liquor for
09:56:35 consumption on the premises only in connection with a
09:56:37 restaurant business establishment at or from that
09:56:40 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 811
09:56:43 South Howard Avenue Tampa, Florida as more described
09:56:46 section in section 2 hereof approving waivers set
09:56:49 forth herein waiving certain restrictions as to
09:56:51 distance based upon certain findings imposing certain
09:56:55 conditions, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
09:56:57 conflict, providing an effective date.
09:56:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:57:02 Record your vote.
09:57:14 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder being
09:57:16 absent at vote.
09:57:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 41.
09:57:26 Anyone wishing to address council may come forward.
09:57:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
09:57:30 >> Second.
09:57:31 (Motion carried).
09:57:32 >>GWEN MILLER: I move an ordinance to be adopted upon
09:57:37 second reading, an ordinance approving a special use

09:57:39 permit S-2 approving a place of religious assembly in
09:57:43 an RS-50 residential single-family zoning district in
09:57:47 the general vicinity of 4816-43rd street north in
09:57:52 the city of Tampa, Florida as more particularly
09:57:55 described in section 1 hereof approving waivers as set
09:57:57 forth herein providing an effective date.
09:57:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded by
09:58:02 councilman Miranda.
09:58:04 Record your vote.
09:58:14 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder being
09:58:16 absent at vote.
09:58:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 42.
09:58:20 Anyone wishing to address council?
09:58:22 Anyone wish to address council?
09:58:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:58:25 >> Second.
09:58:25 (Motion carried).
09:58:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move the following
09:58:29 ordinance for second reading and adoption, an
09:58:31 ordinance approving a special use permit S-1 on appeal
09:58:34 from a decision of the zoning administrator, allowing
09:58:37 the restaurant closing hour to be later than 12 a.m.,

09:58:39 making lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol
09:58:42 regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine and liquor
09:58:45 4(COP-R), for consumption on premises only in
09:58:47 connection with a restaurant business establishment at
09:58:50 or from that certain lot, plot or tract of land
09:58:53 located at 2205 North Westshore Boulevard, Tampa,
09:58:56 Florida, as more particularly described in section 1
09:58:58 hereof, approving waivers as set forth herein,
09:59:02 providing an effective date.
09:59:03 >> It's been seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:59:05 Record your vote, please.
09:59:12 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder being
09:59:14 absent at vote.
09:59:17 >> Item 43.
09:59:18 Anyone wish to address council on item 43?
09:59:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:59:24 >> Second.
09:59:25 (Motion carried).
09:59:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
09:59:31 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance being presented for
09:59:34 second reading, approving special use permit S-2 for
09:59:37 alcoholic beverage sales, small venue, making lawful

09:59:40 the sale of beverages containing alcohol of more than
09:59:42 1% by weight and not more than 14% by weight and wines
09:59:47 regardless of alcoholic content, beer and wine, 2(COP)
09:59:53 for consumption on premises in sealed containers for
09:59:57 consumption off premises at or from that certain lot,
10:00:01 plot or tract of land located at 2543 North Dale Mabry
10:00:05 highway, Tampa, Florida as more particularly described
10:00:07 in section 2 hereof, approving waivers as set forth
10:00:11 herein, waiving certain restrictions as to distance
10:00:13 based upon certain findings, providing for repeal of
10:00:17 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective
10:00:19 date.
10:00:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:00:24 >>THE CLERK: Can we add unit 14?
10:00:27 That was the substitute ordinance.
10:00:30 Add unit 14 into the address.
10:00:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, that will be fine.
10:00:42 Record your vote, please.
10:00:43 Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:00:45 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:00:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 446789 anyone wish to address
10:00:59 council on item 44?

10:01:00 >> Move to close.
10:01:01 >> Second.
10:01:01 (Motion carried).
10:01:02 >>MARY MULHERN: Move an ordinance being presented for
10:01:06 second reading, an ordinance approving a special use
10:01:09 permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, large venue
10:01:12 and making lawful the sale of beverages regardless of
10:01:16 alcoholic content, beer, wine and liquor, 4(COP-X),
10:01:19 for consumption on premises only at or from that
10:01:22 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 5303
10:01:26 West Kennedy Boulevard, Tampa, Florida as more
10:01:28 particularly described in section 2 hereof approving
10:01:31 waivers as set forth herein, waiving certain
10:01:33 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
10:01:36 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
10:01:39 conflict, providing an effective date.
10:01:42 >> Mr. Chairman, I believe that's unit 14.
10:01:44 I'm not sure that was in the ordinance.
10:01:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That was the previous one.
10:01:48 And we included that.
10:01:50 Thank you very much.
10:01:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.

10:01:53 Second.
10:01:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
10:01:56 Miranda.
10:01:56 Record your vote.
10:02:17 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:02:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 45.
10:02:22 Anyone wish to address council?
10:02:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:02:25 >> Second.
10:02:26 (Motion carried).
10:02:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda, item 45.
10:02:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:02:35 (off microphone)
10:02:36 An ordinance approving a special use S-2 for alcoholic
10:02:39 beverages sales small venue and making lawful the sale
10:02:43 of beverages containing alcohol regardless of
10:02:45 alcoholic content beer, wine and liquor 4(COP-R) for
10:02:47 consumption on the premises only in connection with a
10:02:50 restaurant business establishment at or from that
10:02:52 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 1600
10:02:55 east 8th Avenue, unit C-102, Tampa, Florida, as
10:03:00 more particularly described in section 2 hereof,

10:03:02 approving waivers as set forth herein, waiving certain
10:03:05 restrictions as to distance based upon findings,
10:03:08 imposing certain conditions, providing for repeal of
10:03:11 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective
10:03:12 date.
10:03:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
10:03:16 Record your vote, please.
10:03:17 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:03:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 46.
10:03:31 Anyone wishing to address council on item 46?
10:03:34 Item 46, motion to close, please.
10:03:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:03:38 So moved.
10:03:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can I get a second?
10:03:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:03:44 (Motion carried).
10:03:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder, item 46.
10:03:47 Item 46.
10:03:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move the following ordinance for
10:03:52 second reading, an ordinance repeal ordinance 2000-51
10:03:57 approving a special use permit S-2 for alcoholic
10:04:00 beverage sales small venue and making lawful the sale

10:04:03 of beverages containing alcohol regardless of alcohol
10:04:08 content beer, wine and liquor 4(COP-R) for consumption
10:04:11 on the premises only in conjunction with a restaurant
10:04:15 business establishment at or from that certain lot
10:04:18 plot or tract of land located at 1600 east 8th
10:04:21 Avenue, unit E-202, Tampa, Florida as more
10:04:24 particularly described in section 3 hereof approving
10:04:27 waivers as set forth herein waiving certain
10:04:29 restrictions, providing for repeal of all ordinances
10:04:32 in conflict, providing an effective date.
10:04:34 And by the way --
10:04:36 >> Second.
10:04:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Clerk strike that from the record,
10:04:47 please.
10:04:47 [ Laughter ]
10:04:49 Record your vote, please.
10:04:51 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:04:58 Items.
10:04:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 47.
10:05:00 Anyone wish to address council on item 47?
10:05:05 Motion to close, please.
10:05:06 >> So moved.

10:05:07 >> Second.
10:05:07 (Motion carried).
10:05:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Move an ordinance for second reading on
10:05:13 adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the
10:05:15 general vicinity of 5200 west Tyson Avenue in the city
10:05:20 of Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in
10:05:23 section 1 from zoning district classifications PD
10:05:26 planned development, private Yacht Club, to PD,
10:05:28 planned development, private Yacht Club, marina sales
10:05:31 and repair, providing an effective date.
10:05:32 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
10:05:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
10:05:42 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:05:49 >> Okay. Item 48 is to be continued.
10:05:55 Anyone wishing to address council on the continuance
10:05:57 to March 5th?
10:06:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to open.
10:06:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All of them are open already so we
10:06:03 just need to make a motion to continue to March
10:06:05 5th, I believe.
10:06:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to continue till March 5th
10:06:09 at 9:30.

10:06:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:06:15 (Motion carried)
10:06:20 Item 49.
10:06:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman, it's about 49.
10:06:28 We received a memo from our attorney who is here,
10:06:31 Rebecca Kert.
10:06:34 I had requested the administration develop written
10:06:36 list of specific tools available.
10:06:38 And I maybe didn't use the words clearly enough.
10:06:44 What I am interested in is what specific carrot and
10:06:53 sticks are available to the city and to property
10:06:55 owners.
10:06:56 We don't have to have it today, but this will be
10:06:59 coming back before us in the future.
10:07:02 I would like for those property owners of historic
10:07:06 properties to understand what loan programs we have
10:07:09 available, what grants we have available in the state,
10:07:13 and also in your memo, you talk about the idea that
10:07:17 after we adopt this, we will be able to help enforce
10:07:21 this by the civil citation process, maybe a brief
10:07:26 description of what that entails and what tools that
10:07:28 will give us.

10:07:28 And I also am interested in seeing how we can expand
10:07:33 the ability of our fire inspector as well as our code
10:07:40 enforcement people to ensure that historic properties
10:07:44 are kept in good repair.
10:07:48 >>REBECCA KERT: If I can just ask that you include the
10:07:51 administration because that's more than just the legal
10:07:53 department.
10:07:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, that is my intent.
10:07:57 After we adopt this, I'll request the tools for a
10:08:00 later date.
10:08:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wishing to address council on
10:08:03 item 49?
10:08:04 >>CHAIRMAN: Move to close.
10:08:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:08:08 (Motion carried).
10:08:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Now you want to read that?
10:08:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
10:08:14 I would like to move the following ordinance for
10:08:15 second reading and adoption.
10:08:17 An ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida making
10:08:19 comprehensive revisions to the City of Tampa code of
10:08:21 ordinances chapter 27 zoning, amending section 27-194,

10:08:26 reserved, amending section 27-220, maintenance and
10:08:30 repair of landmarks, landmark sites and property in
10:08:33 historic districts, multiple property designation or
10:08:36 conservation overlay district, repealing all
10:08:38 ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict
10:08:41 therewith, providing for severability, providing an
10:08:43 effective date.
10:08:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:08:47 Record your vote, please.
10:08:54 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:08:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:08:56 My subsequent motion is, A, that we receive and file
10:08:59 my original response to my request for specific tools,
10:09:03 and B, request for a report back from staff, maybe the
10:09:08 first meeting in February, under staff reports, to
10:09:13 address not just the legal department but the entire
10:09:15 administration for specific grants, loans, incentives
10:09:25 that we can provide the private sector as well as a
10:09:28 discussion of what the civil citation process would
10:09:30 be, as well as -- I feel as if we need to give code
10:09:36 enforcement people additional abilities to access the
10:09:44 codes which may or may not -- I want to give code

10:09:48 enforcement all the tools we can to effectively do
10:09:51 their job.
10:09:52 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
10:09:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote, please.
10:09:58 >>GWEN MILLER: It's just a motion.
10:10:00 All in favor say Aye.
10:10:01 Opposes.
10:10:02 So moved.
10:10:03 Thank you.
10:10:05 Item 50.
10:10:09 Anyone wish to address council?
10:10:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:10:12 >> Second.
10:10:12 (Motion carried).
10:10:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 50.
10:10:15 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: (off microphone) an ordinance of
10:10:21 the City of Tampa Florida making comprehensive
10:10:25 revisions to City of Tampa code of ordinances chapter
10:10:28 27 zoning, amending section 27-452, official schedule
10:10:32 of permitted principal, accessory and special uses,
10:10:35 amending section 27-457, development site and building
10:10:39 design standards, amending section 27-545,

10:10:43 definitions, repealing all ordinances or parts of
10:10:45 ordinances in conflict therewith, providing for
10:10:49 severability, providing an effective date.
10:10:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
10:10:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote, please.
10:11:11 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:11:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 51.
10:11:14 Anyone wishing to address council on item 51?
10:11:16 >> Move to close.
10:11:17 >> Second.
10:11:18 (Motion carried).
10:11:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented
10:11:23 for second reading, an ordinance of the city of Tampa,
10:11:25 Florida making comprehensive revisions to City of
10:11:28 Tampa code of ordinances, chapter 27, zoning, amending
10:11:33 section 27-138, open storage, repealing all ordinances
10:11:37 or parts of order ordnances in conflict therewith,
10:11:42 providing for severability, providing an effective
10:11:44 date.
10:11:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:11:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote, please.
10:11:55 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.

10:11:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 52.
10:11:59 Anyone wish to address council on item 52?
10:12:02 >> Move to close.
10:12:03 >> Second.
10:12:03 (Motion carried).
10:12:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item 52.
10:12:12 (off microphone) an ordinance of the city of Tampa,
10:12:17 Florida making comprehensive revisions to City of
10:12:19 Tampa code of ordinances, chapter 27 zoning, amending
10:12:22 section 27-272 regulations governing individual
10:12:26 special uses, amending section 27-438, official
10:12:30 schedule of permitted principal, accessory and special
10:12:33 uses, repealing all ordinances or parts of ordinances
10:12:37 in conflict therewith, providing for severability,
10:12:40 providing an effective date.
10:12:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
10:12:44 Record your vote.
10:12:52 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:12:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 53 needs to be continued to
10:12:57 February 19th.
10:12:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.
10:13:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

10:13:01 (Motion carried).
10:13:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 54.
10:13:11 Anyone wishing to address council on item 54?
10:13:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:13:15 >> Second.
10:13:15 (Motion carried).
10:13:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move the following ordinance
10:13:21 on second reading, an ordinance of the city of Tampa,
10:13:23 Florida making comprehensive revisions to City of
10:13:25 Tampa code of ordinances chapter 17.5, planning and
10:13:28 land development, amending section 17.5-74 application
10:13:33 of the variance power, amending chapter 27, zoning,
10:13:37 section 27-214, variance, authority, application,
10:13:40 notice, criteria, decision, stay, denial, appeal,
10:13:43 expiration of variance, repealing all ordinances or
10:13:46 part of ordinances in conflict therewith, providing
10:13:50 for severability, providing an effective date.
10:13:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:13:54 Record your vote, please.
10:14:01 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:14:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 55.
10:14:05 Anyone wish to address council?

10:14:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
10:14:10 >> Second.
10:14:11 (Motion carried).
10:14:11 >>GWEN MILLER: I move an ordinance to be adopted upon
10:14:14 second reading, an ordinance amending the Tampa
10:14:16 comprehensive plan, future land use element, future
10:14:20 land use map, for the property located in the general
10:14:23 vicinity of 4918 north Habana Avenue, from residential
10:14:27 35 to public/semi-public providing for repeal of all
10:14:31 ordinances in conflict, providing for severability,
10:14:33 providing an effective date.
10:14:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:14:36 Record your vote.
10:14:47 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:14:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 56.
10:14:56 We need to open those items.
10:14:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 56 is a continued public hearing and
10:15:04 is already open.
10:15:04 You can take those individually.
10:15:08 Those are, I believe, here for first reading, is that
10:15:10 correct?
10:15:16 >> Yes.

10:15:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I believe items 56 and 57
10:15:27 would also require the witnesses to be sworn, please.
10:15:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Those that are going to be addressing
10:15:35 council -- didn't we do that already?
10:15:38 >>GWEN MILLER: not on those.
10:15:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:15:40 Please stand if you are going to address council on
10:15:42 item 56 and 57, please stand and be sworn.
10:15:46 (Oath administered by Clerk)
10:15:59 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Item 56 is Z 08-67.
10:16:04 This case was before you back in December and had a
10:16:08 couple items that needed addressing.
10:16:10 If you will go to page 2 of the revised staff report,
10:16:14 I just provided you with, some of the outstanding
10:16:17 issues related to solid waste access, this is over in
10:16:21 the Channel District, it's at 1105 and 1115 Twiggs
10:16:26 Street, it's the site of the original rezoning for the
10:16:32 Martin, to increase the multifamily units as well as
10:16:38 artist studios.
10:16:39 Staff went back and worked with the petitioner related
10:16:42 to transportation mitigation issue.
10:16:45 Also related to the solid waste issue.

10:16:47 And lastly related to tree and landscape.
10:16:50 And we have come to resolution on many of those items.
10:16:52 There are a couple items that are still outstanding.
10:16:55 I have provided you with a revision sheet for those.
10:16:58 What I would like to do, though, is show you in
10:17:01 relation to the solid waste how that was reconciled.
10:17:04 I provided -- if I can have the Elmo, please.
10:17:14 This is the original wee we brought before you in
10:17:17 December with the park located to the east of the
10:17:21 property and service area.
10:17:23 The petitioner did work with TECO and with solid
10:17:27 waste, and actually reworked this area.
10:17:30 The park is now larger than it was originally.
10:17:35 Solid waste found the proposal consistent.
10:17:45 Melanie Calloway did meet with petitioner concerning
10:17:47 that.
10:17:47 Mitigation payment was negotiated, and a note has been
10:17:50 added to the site plan to address that mitigation.
10:17:53 The last item was tree and landscape.
10:17:58 I have met with petitioner on that.
10:17:59 There are a couple revisions we still need.
10:18:02 We have met on that and are in agreement.

10:18:04 Those are included on the revision sheet.
10:18:06 Staff is available for any questions.
10:18:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
10:18:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't have nip questions.
10:18:12 I'm pleased, Abbye, that you all were able to work out
10:18:15 these issues with the developer.
10:18:17 I was sick that night, really sick, and stayed home
10:18:20 that evening when you all were wrestling with this but
10:18:23 I actually watched it on TV.
10:18:27 And it actually made me even sicker.
10:18:31 Because I'll tell you what, I didn't like what I saw
10:18:34 last night and it was -- I was really, really
10:18:40 disappointed, from a staff perspective, not you guys,
10:18:43 Abbye, but as I recall, you know, it appeared to me
10:18:47 that there just hadn't been a whole lot of cooperation
10:18:50 from solid waste or transportation to work with this
10:18:54 developer in Channelside to get this project to where
10:19:01 it needed to be before it came before us and I saw
10:19:06 tremendous frustration on the part of this developer,
10:19:08 and I'll tell you what, as long as the developers have
10:19:11 come and gone through this city, this particular
10:19:13 developer is actually, you know, put his money and his

10:19:16 actions where his mouth is.
10:19:18 And he's made things happen, and he's made things
10:19:20 happen in Channelside, and he's building his projects
10:19:24 and does we says he's going to do, and those are the
10:19:27 kinds of developers that we want to encourage to stay
10:19:30 in the city, and in Channelside, and continue to work
10:19:33 with us.
10:19:33 But if we don't treat them better, they are going to
10:19:36 move on, as you say, Joseph, and I was extremely
10:19:41 frustrated.
10:19:42 I am going to send a message loud and clear,
10:19:44 especially -- no offense to solid waste who is here
10:19:48 today and I appreciate it -- but I don't think council
10:19:50 should move forward on any item if a particular staff
10:19:55 has an objection and they don't bother to show up and
10:19:57 talk about it, because it not fair to you, Abbye, and
10:20:01 to your department, to just send that objection
10:20:03 through you, and let you try to wiggle and sort it
10:20:06 out.
10:20:06 If they have a strong objection about it, a very
10:20:09 important issue like this one was, it's really a deal
10:20:12 breaker, they need to show up and they need to argue

10:20:15 their own case and then we need to make our decision.
10:20:18 So I'm sending that message all the way up to Steve
10:20:22 Daignault, who is as high as you can go in that group,
10:20:25 to say that if folks have objections on these
10:20:28 projects, they need to show up down here and talk
10:20:30 about them, and not deal with it through that.
10:20:35 That's my soap box today.
10:20:37 I'm glad these issues are worked out.
10:20:38 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, if this happens
10:20:40 again, and solid waste is supposed to be here, I think
10:20:44 we should override them and make our own decision.
10:20:47 We need probably to change the ordinance.
10:20:49 If they fail to show, it's too late.
10:20:53 And I give this gentleman a lot of courage.
10:20:56 I mean, he's got to be spending a lot of money down
10:20:59 there.
10:20:59 It costs money every time to go back to the drawing
10:21:01 table.
10:21:02 And if staff fails to show up, it's too bad.
10:21:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I agree with the comments of both
10:21:10 Mr. Dingfelder and Mr. Caetano.
10:21:12 And the other issue that I'm sure you noted, Mr.

10:21:17 Dingfelder, was that the petitioner wasn't contacted
10:21:23 with the comments that staff until the day before the
10:21:26 zoning.
10:21:26 And I think that maybe we just need a clerical person
10:21:30 to make sure that -- she's saying that's not true?
10:21:34 Well, it was online but they weren't contacted.
10:21:37 I feel it's so much better for everyone when things
10:21:40 can be discussed in advance and sorted out, and it
10:21:43 comes to council.
10:21:45 Sometimes it's not possible to come to -- yes, but
10:21:50 sometimes it is.
10:21:50 Certainly we like to get our information in advance,
10:21:52 and I know that petitioners would -- and perhaps
10:21:57 there's a clerical or process way where staff person,
10:22:02 a clerical person, can, after the staff finishes
10:22:05 reviewing something, contact the petitioner so that
10:22:07 they have an opportunity to address the issues raised
10:22:10 by the staff prior to coming before council.
10:22:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I also want to note I did send the
10:22:18 chief of staff a letter regarding this and got a
10:22:22 response back that corrected the problem, and they
10:22:24 won't have it in the future.

10:22:25 So I did follow up as chairman of the board, and the
10:22:29 same thing, a memo to the chief of staff to address
10:22:32 the problem.
10:22:36 Anyone from the public want to address council on this
10:22:38 item 56, or the petitioner?
10:22:42 Okay.
10:22:43 Motion to close.
10:22:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just for the record, is petitioner
10:22:47 amenable to the revision sheet dated January 8, 2009?
10:22:52 I think we probably should have that agreement on the
10:22:56 record.
10:22:59 >>> Ken Stoltenberg, Mercury advisors.
10:23:02 Yes, we are amenable.
10:23:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:23:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
10:23:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:23:07 (Motion carried).
10:23:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:23:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:23:22 The clerk says she doesn't have an ordinance.
10:23:23 Does staff have an ordinance for her?
10:23:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We could do 57 real quick.

10:23:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Let's do 57.
10:23:39 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
10:23:40 If we can hold off on this one I'll checkups.
10:23:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's move to 57 and come back.
10:23:47 >> Move to open 57.
10:23:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:23:52 (Motion carried).
10:23:52 >> Preservation, for a tax ad valorem, address 1821
10:24:00 Richardson.
10:24:01 The owners are David and Mary Heise.
10:24:05 On the Elmo, we have a front elevation of the property
10:24:10 in question, 1925, stucco on frame.
10:24:17 If you look at the defining features on the house it
10:24:20 has a bell entrance, double windows, screens, stucco,
10:24:28 a parapet roof.
10:24:31 Was built in 1925.
10:24:39 This is a 1929 Sanborn so you get a perspective
10:24:43 whereof the property is at.
10:24:44 It's highlighted in the green, which is here.
10:24:46 You see Bayshore Boulevard to the south and Howard
10:24:49 Avenue to the west.
10:24:59 Back to the front of the house, how it existed prior

10:25:02 to rehabilitation.
10:25:03 This is showing the house under the process of the
10:25:05 rehabilitation.
10:25:09 This is the structure after rehabilitation.
10:25:11 This is the front elevation.
10:25:14 When an applicant makes request, we have staff members
10:25:18 do research.
10:25:19 And upon that research we found some interesting
10:25:22 photos.
10:25:23 This is one that I brought forward today.
10:25:36 To the right, this is a 1926 photo, an aerial taken
10:25:39 from probably the Royale, and to the left after
10:25:45 rehabilitation, we No notice this is the structure.
10:25:49 You have a window, a window, fireplace, and window.
10:25:53 You have the eyebrow roof with a parapet.
10:25:55 This is the original structure which is here, which is
10:25:59 also indicated here, and then you see there was an
10:26:01 addition that was approved by the ARC towards the rear
10:26:04 as well.
10:26:06 To conclude I am just going to show one more photo, on
10:26:11 the top, with the existing living room, with a wood
10:26:14 floor, the fireplace, the built-ins, front by two

10:26:18 windows.
10:26:19 Kind of hard to see.
10:26:20 And then below you see the refurbished pine floors,
10:26:24 the baseboards, interior casing and the original
10:26:27 windows, the fireplace, and the flanking of windows
10:26:31 that abut the fireplace.
10:26:33 And that concludes the presentation.
10:26:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:26:38 Your reports are always one of the high points of our
10:26:40 meetings, because it's good news.
10:26:42 Somebody who has invested a lot of energy, and time in
10:26:47 restoring one of our historic structures.
10:26:49 This is a beautiful example.
10:26:50 And I'm pleased that we have adopted the demolition by
10:26:54 neglect ordinance.
10:26:55 Thank you for your work on that.
10:26:56 And I hope it gives you all some additional tools to
10:26:59 protect --
10:27:03 >>> This structure here met the criteria for
10:27:05 demolition and it was presented tots board, to the ARC
10:27:09 board and demolition was approved.
10:27:10 Then this previous owner, the current owner now, said

10:27:14 that demolition wasn't an option and they took it upon
10:27:17 themselves to renovate the house and then you see the
10:27:19 final product now.
10:27:20 This is one that met the criteria.
10:27:22 But if you have an owner that's respectful towards
10:27:25 preservation it can be accomplished.
10:27:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What a noise success story.
10:27:33 For the public's benefit, war the tax benefits that we
10:27:36 are approving today?
10:27:37 >>> I don't know the exact amount.
10:27:41 It ranges anywhere from probably $500 to $2 or $3,000
10:27:47 for residential properties through ten years.
10:27:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:27:55 Move to close.
10:27:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
10:27:57 council?
10:27:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second to close.
10:27:59 (Motion carried).
10:28:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do we need to approve?
10:28:07 >> Yes, through resolution.
10:28:14 >> I have the ordinance for the previous item.
10:28:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do you have the ordinance for this

10:28:18 one?
10:28:19 >>REBECCA KERT: I apologize, the ordinance is on the
10:28:22 way downstairs.
10:28:23 If you could continue it to the end of your morning
10:28:25 meeting.
10:28:25 >> Number 57.
10:28:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We are going to go ahead and read be
10:28:35 the ordinance on 56.
10:28:37 57 we'll hold to the end of this meeting.
10:28:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move an ordinance rezoning property
10:28:43 in the general vicinity of 1105 and 1115 Twiggs Street
10:28:47 in the city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly
10:28:49 described in section 1 from zoning district
10:28:51 classification CD 3 to CD 2, Channel District
10:28:59 multifamily, providing an effective date.
10:29:00 And we need to refer to the -- including the
10:29:06 agreements in the revision sheet.
10:29:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:29:12 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:29:14 Opposes?
10:29:14 Okay.
10:29:14 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent

10:29:18 at vote.
10:29:18 Second reading of the ordinance will be held January
10:29:20 22nd at 9:30 a.m.
10:29:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:29:27 We are moving now to staff reports.
10:29:29 Item 58.
10:29:32 Clerk.
10:29:41 >>THE CLERK: Shirley Foxx-Knowles, city clerk.
10:29:44 I'm here before you on item number 58.
10:29:48 We have one applicant for the Barrio Latino commission
10:29:56 to fill the position of architect.
10:30:00 We don't have an applicant for the attorney position.
10:30:04 And we will continue to advertise.
10:30:08 If at this time would you like to hear from Mr.
10:30:11 Kenneth Cowart who is the applicant.
10:30:20 >> Not here?
10:30:21 >> He stated he would be here.
10:30:25 So do you want to hold that item?
10:30:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Given that we have a live
10:30:33 applicant, even though he's not here, we move we
10:30:37 accept his application, and appoint him to the Barrio
10:30:40 Latino.

10:30:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:30:44 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:30:46 Opposes?
10:30:47 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Moving on to item 59, we have
10:30:54 one applicant for the enterprise development zone
10:30:58 agency, Mr. John William fry.
10:31:03 Hopefully he's here.
10:31:08 He can tell you more about himself.
10:31:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Two minutes, Mr. Fry.
10:31:14 >> My name is John fry.
10:31:16 I'm a resident of Tampa.
10:31:19 I live in the Ybor City area.
10:31:23 I heard about this opportunity about a month ago, just
10:31:28 very excited about the chance to let me my services to
10:31:37 the economic situation within the City of Tampa.
10:31:41 As I said, I was very excited about the opportunity,
10:31:44 put my application in.
10:31:46 Looking forward to the chance to lend my services.
10:31:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:31:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thanks for being here today.
10:31:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move his appointment.
10:31:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

10:32:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Directing staff.
10:32:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I may.
10:32:06 As did you with the prior, and I'll come back to that
10:32:08 in a minute.
10:32:09 But with regard to this, if you make the motion, he is
10:32:12 in effect appointed.
10:32:15 By the time that motion passes.
10:32:17 I will prepare the resolution today, bring them back
10:32:20 to you this afternoon so you can actually memorialize
10:32:22 it.
10:32:22 But the motion would be in effect to appoint him now.
10:32:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move Mr. Fry.
10:32:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:32:32 (Motion carried).
10:32:37 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Moving on to item number 60.
10:32:39 Currently, council, we don't have an applicant for Ms.
10:32:48 Susan's long position, under her resignation, so we
10:32:52 will continue to advertise.
10:32:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Are there constraints on that in
10:32:57 terms of the position?
10:32:58 Is it like neighborhood person, or -- is it just a
10:33:05 general one?

10:33:09 If you are not sure, that's fine.
10:33:12 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: It is basically general.
10:33:14 It's not a specialty.
10:33:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Ms. Foxx-Knowles, I want to clarify
10:33:24 with respect to the appointment to the barrio.
10:33:28 He's appointed for the remainder of the three-year
10:33:30 term that will expire January 31st, 2009.
10:33:35 Is it council's motion also that he be reappointed to
10:33:37 the next two years as well?
10:33:43 Thank you again.
10:33:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I wanted to compliment the city
10:33:46 clerk.
10:33:46 You have done a really energetic job of getting the
10:33:49 word out.
10:33:50 And I think the lack of response is not a reflection
10:33:52 on your communications with the community.
10:33:55 But I encourage all of us to try to find an attorney
10:33:58 to serve on the barrio.
10:33:59 Thank you.
10:34:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am going to talk to the bar about
10:34:05 that.

10:34:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 61.
10:34:13 Do we have someone here?
10:34:14 >>KAREN PALUS: Parks and recreation director.
10:34:20 I'm here on item 61 regarding the potential cost
10:34:24 estimates for vertical elements for the Kiley Gardens
10:34:30 plaza as dedicated and known.
10:34:32 The request as far as the palms and crape myrtles, we
10:34:39 did a little research on that, and it looks to be in
10:34:42 the ballpark of about a half million dollar
10:34:46 expenditure and that includes the palms and crape
10:34:50 myrtles and also the irrigation that needs to be
10:34:53 included in that.
10:34:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for doing that.
10:35:00 And I have a question.
10:35:01 I'm very, very excited about the whole evolution of
10:35:04 the area and the fact that the waterproofing is going
10:35:06 to allow us to put that vertical future features and I
10:35:11 wonder if we could use money that's been put in the
10:35:14 trust fund for this area to underwrite the
10:35:18 installation of those vertical features.
10:35:20 >>KAREN PALUS: For the tree trust fund?
10:35:24 That is a possibility to utilize that funding source.

10:35:27 We have allocated some dollars on this year for some
10:35:30 projects already.
10:35:31 And we try to keep that balance about a million
10:35:35 dollars, and utilize that for our community tree
10:35:38 program.
10:35:38 So maybe something we can look at in future years for
10:35:40 that but we try to keep that balance about a million
10:35:43 or so.
10:35:44 >> My thought is this.
10:35:47 It's always good to installing -- while everything is
10:35:51 dug up, it seems like you save money rather than
10:35:53 putting in turf and then going back and putting it
10:35:57 into trees.
10:35:58 It would make sense to me to use some of that money to
10:36:02 install the trees while we are recreating the park.
10:36:07 The trees are such a critical part of the design, the
10:36:14 whole sensibility of the park and its geometry
10:36:17 premised on that vertical element and according to
10:36:20 what I understand do or not do that right now.
10:36:23 Therefore I appreciate the need for fund balances but
10:36:25 frankly, trees grow more rapidly than money in the
10:36:29 bank at this point, and based on that, I would like to

10:36:32 request that the administration allocate the half
10:36:39 million dollars that you have identified as the cost
10:36:40 for installing the vertical element of Kiley Gardens
10:36:46 as part of the tree trust fund for this area.
10:36:50 And I know we can't direct the administration to do
10:36:52 it, but I am really serious about the trees growing
10:36:56 more rapidly than the dollars at this point.
10:36:59 That's a motion.
10:36:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:37:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder, councilman
10:37:05 Mulhern.
10:37:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: First to compliment you on your
10:37:09 great work.
10:37:13 I think it brings up a good point.
10:37:19 I guess my question would be from a policy
10:37:22 perspective, I know we want to keep fund balances, you
10:37:27 know, when we have had lengthy discussion with the
10:37:29 mayor about various fund balances and rainy day funds
10:37:32 and that sort of thing.
10:37:33 But this particular fund, you can't jump into it if --
10:37:37 if you have a shortfall for fireman salary, you can't
10:37:40 jump in, it's very limited and targeted.

10:37:44 So what would be the policy or reason that we would
10:37:46 want to keep it at a million dollars?
10:37:49 Surely not for the 3% interest that we are earning.
10:37:51 >>> And that had been the original plan, to get to
10:37:57 that million dollar mark and then utilize the interest
10:38:00 earnings for it to do the community tree program, and
10:38:02 that was in place years ago when it was put into
10:38:04 effect.
10:38:05 And we have used it for many different projects and
10:38:07 continue to try to use it and get the trees and plants
10:38:11 in place.
10:38:11 One thing I would caution regarding Kiley and going
10:38:14 forward right now is one of the things that we had set
10:38:17 out originally, we said as an administration we are
10:38:20 going to go forward and dop the horizontal elements
10:38:23 and work closely with the friends of Kiley, and I
10:38:26 think at that point he would want to start talking
10:38:27 about the vertical elements, and the need to reengage
10:38:31 those groups.
10:38:32 >> But we can do it simultaneously.
10:38:33 >> It's something that we need to sit down and talk
10:38:36 with them, because there's some really good input from

10:38:39 the study that was done, also rehabilitation, but
10:38:47 dealing with the issues, we have right now with the
10:38:49 budget cuts and such is the maintenance of that
10:38:51 facility.
10:38:52 Now how difficult it was to maintain originally going
10:38:54 into that, and he would do not have that staff member,
10:38:57 and we do not have those dollars, so we need to look
10:39:00 at some revenue streams and how we would imagine and
10:39:02 maintain that facility for the future so we don't end
10:39:05 up in the same situation we had previously.
10:39:06 We weren't able to keep up with because it is a very
10:39:10 high maintenance facility.
10:39:11 It's a beautiful layout.
10:39:12 It's a wonderful component.
10:39:14 You do not have maintenance dollars in that time to be
10:39:17 in there day after day, week after week, we are going
10:39:19 to end up in the same situation.
10:39:21 I don't think any of us want to see that again.
10:39:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Maybe as a friendly amendment to
10:39:28 the motion of Linda, obviously you are going to be
10:39:31 working on this issue but maybe get back with us in
10:39:37 six months with a report and an update on -- is that

10:39:43 too far?
10:39:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
10:39:44 It should be one month.
10:39:45 I'll tell you why.
10:39:46 We are going to be installing this this summer, and to
10:39:49 do plans for it, you need to plan now.
10:39:51 And I appreciate the maintenance concerns.
10:39:53 The good news is the people who are creating,
10:39:57 recreating this park are going to give us much better
10:40:00 situations than it had originally in terms of the
10:40:03 number of things.
10:40:05 But those are real concerns.
10:40:06 And I would be happy to engage with the friends of
10:40:09 Kiley and the foundation, some of the people we had
10:40:13 who were unusually interested to figure out FHP we
10:40:16 could create -- maybe it would be appropriate for the
10:40:17 city to do the installation but for the friends of
10:40:20 Kiley to create an endowment of the maintenance of the
10:40:24 park.
10:40:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Also downtown CRA.
10:40:31 >>MARY MULHERN: That's what I was going to mention,
10:40:34 John.

10:40:35 I think it was John's idea about the tree trust fund.
10:40:38 So that's great.
10:40:39 And I think we should look at the CRA
10:40:47 I also have a question about the fact this had been a
10:40:51 city park for a long time and a lot of problems were
10:40:53 because it wasn't maintained.
10:40:55 And I think it should be part of as the riverwalk is
10:40:57 becoming a new part of what is going to be the city's
10:41:02 responsibility to maintain, I don't see why Kiley Park
10:41:05 shouldn't get some of that catch-up going, too.
10:41:09 And my thought about the whole thing, since this is
10:41:11 complex, I guess what I was wondering -- well, first
10:41:14 of all, can we call the vertical elements trees?
10:41:18 That's kind of weird.
10:41:20 Because they are all trees as far as I know.
10:41:23 And the horizontal elements, grass.
10:41:27 My question about the turf, though, is that going in,
10:41:31 in some of the squares that will eventually have
10:41:35 trees?
10:41:38 Because I don't think we should spend any money on
10:41:40 putting in turf when we are going to be putting trees
10:41:43 in there.

10:41:43 I think that's a waste of money.
10:41:45 So let's take that little bit of turf money and save
10:41:48 it for buying some crape myrtles
10:41:53 My other question, are the palms all gone now?
10:41:56 They are?
10:41:57 I try not to look that way.
10:41:59 I want to wait till it's all done.
10:42:01 >> Actually, if you get a chance to look it's pretty
10:42:04 amazing.
10:42:04 It's all coming together very nicely.
10:42:08 A wonderful job.
10:42:08 >> It's very exciting.
10:42:09 I would just like to see Kiley Park be readopted into
10:42:12 the city Parks Department, and readopted into downtown
10:42:16 as part of the new arts and culture center, and the
10:42:20 riverwalk.
10:42:23 And we finally degenerative that after all these
10:42:33 years.
10:42:33 And I appreciate all your work on that.
10:42:35 It wonderful.
10:42:41 I want to look into CRA money.
10:42:43 I want the Parks Department to really look at whether

10:42:47 they can at least until we figure out a way to pay for
10:42:49 it with the trust fund, maintain it, at least as long
10:42:53 as we get those trees in there and it starts to look
10:42:56 beautiful, you know.
10:42:58 Crape myrtle, my neighbors do it and it's once a year,
10:43:02 you cut them back.
10:43:03 It's not a big -- it really isn't a big maintenance
10:43:06 thing.
10:43:06 We could get one of our landscape contractors probably
10:43:09 to do that, you know, for additional money, but I
10:43:13 don't think it's, you know, since you are putting in
10:43:15 the irrigation, we are -- I think you are, aren't you?
10:43:19 >>> The irrigation that's going in currently, that
10:43:23 turf will actually be there.
10:43:30 But some of those things -- and then there's
10:43:31 additional irrigation that you placed as trees that
10:43:34 would have to be designed and set in.
10:43:36 Now we have set that up so that it doesn't eliminate
10:43:43 anything in the future.
10:43:44 We would be allowed the irrigation system.
10:43:49 As we promised to do with the project overall, that it
10:43:53 would be ready with the friends of -- Kiley to come in

10:43:57 and do the additional elements that they were
10:43:58 interested in doing.
10:44:01 >> I want to mention this too because in my former
10:44:03 life as an art writer and museum person, I was very
10:44:07 involved in trying to save Kiley years before you were
10:44:13 here, and so -- and with Linda, I learned a lot about
10:44:18 it when they brought the architect and the landscape
10:44:21 architect who worked with Kiley on the park.
10:44:23 And one of the problems is that, you know, the park
10:44:25 wasn't completely successful the way that Kiley
10:44:29 designed it because, you know, you wouldn't know until
10:44:33 you plan stuff what's going to happen.
10:44:36 And the grass was a problem because of the shade from
10:44:39 the trees.
10:44:40 So if we are putting in irrigation, if there's any
10:44:43 difference between the irrigation for grass and trees,
10:44:46 we should put it in, you know, with the right plan for
10:44:53 what's going to grow and what's knots. And I don't
10:44:56 know, maybe they figured out that there's a different
10:44:58 kind of grass that will grow.
10:45:02 But there were problems with that.
10:45:03 The trees were wrong.

10:45:05 The soil was wrong.
10:45:07 There were a lot of things that we know better now
10:45:09 which is the good news.
10:45:10 >> I just wanted to make sure we are using it.
10:45:13 And this is what I want to say.
10:45:16 What I would like to have us do is schedule a workshop
10:45:19 where Karen can come and, you know, what's their name,
10:45:25 the guys that are doing the work?
10:45:28 Skanska, and the friends of Kiley, so that we can all
10:45:32 talk about this before we make it, spend any more
10:45:35 money, and decide what we do.
10:45:38 So I would like to get it on our calendar, the soonest
10:45:43 workshop we can fit in.
10:45:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: May I make a suggestion on that?
10:45:46 Because this is of greater tonight some council
10:45:50 members than others perhaps we can schedule it as an
10:45:52 afternoon special discussion meeting at our last
10:45:54 workshop in January.
10:45:56 So that way --
10:46:02 >>MARY MULHERN: We don't have anything scheduled that
10:46:04 afternoon.
10:46:04 >>MARY MULHERN: We have a night meeting, though.

10:46:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We said we would not schedule a third
10:46:13 item when we have a night meeting.
10:46:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We said we wouldn't do it as a
10:46:19 special discussion meeting that requires members to be
10:46:22 here but for council members that are particularly
10:46:25 interested in this.
10:46:25 >>MARY MULHERN: I think we should put it on a workshop
10:46:29 day and then if we have to put it in the afternoon.
10:46:31 It won't be on a night meeting today.
10:46:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My concern is, Ms. Mulhern, that
10:46:35 council as a policy had said that we wouldn't schedule
10:46:41 any more for that January workshop day, because we
10:46:43 have some pretty substantive --
10:46:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
10:46:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Even though it's a lot of work I
10:46:50 think it's really timely because dirt is moving around
10:46:52 right now.
10:46:53 Now is the time --
10:46:55 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't think we can wait.
10:46:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to schedule it for a
10:46:58 special discussion meeting for 1:30 and the council
10:47:01 members who can attend, and those who can't, we'll

10:47:03 share what we learned.
10:47:05 >>MARY MULHERN: Workshop session in January?
10:47:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Correct?
10:47:11 What is the date on that?
10:47:13 >> She's talking about having a special discussion.
10:47:16 >>MARY MULHERN: On that work shown day.
10:47:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Which only requires whatever
10:47:22 council members are able to attend.
10:47:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Would you like to withdraw your prior
10:47:26 motion?
10:47:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I withdraw my prior motion and move
10:47:29 the report back asking the administration to consider
10:47:32 spending the tree trust money about special workshop
10:47:35 at 1:30 on the 29th.
10:47:42 >> Second.
10:47:43 I think we should do that.
10:47:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And invite friends of Kiley and
10:47:48 invite Christine Burdick, because we are looking at
10:47:52 TIF funds and maybe they would northbound charge of
10:47:53 maintaining it or something, their special cleaning
10:47:57 people.
10:47:58 >>> I think it would be beneficial as well if we could

10:48:02 meet with friends of Kiley beforehand.
10:48:07 We haven't had anything recent with them with their
10:48:09 process, what their thoughts are, and I want to make
10:48:11 sure we are familiar with the study that was done and
10:48:13 the rehabilitation efforts and some things that I
10:48:15 think might be good.
10:48:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We can schedule a field trip and
10:48:20 actually go look at the park and see where things are
10:48:23 and talk to people.
10:48:24 I'll be happy to work on that.
10:48:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion is to have a special
10:48:28 discussion on the 29th at 1:30.
10:48:31 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm seconding the motion.
10:48:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded, Councilwoman
10:48:38 Mulhern.
10:48:38 (Motion carried)
10:48:41 So keep in the mind now that that is on --
10:48:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A triple header.
10:48:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Just be aware of that.
10:48:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Would you like that notated as a
10:48:52 discussion of Kiley gardens?
10:48:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.

10:48:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Now that's not a day we are going to
10:48:59 see that the day.
10:49:01 Another day for that, right?
10:49:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Right.
10:49:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Good.
10:49:05 I know you all are energetic.
10:49:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to say one more thing.
10:49:15 I am going to bring the item up at our next CRA
10:49:17 meeting about looking into funding from the downtown
10:49:21 CRA at Kiley Park.
10:49:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 57.
10:49:29 Going back now to item 57 real quick.
10:49:32 We need to take care of that.
10:49:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: For first reading, an ordinance
10:49:38 approving a historic tax exemption, relative to the
10:49:42 restoration, rehabilitation of certain property owned
10:49:45 by David and Mary Heise, located at 1821 Richardson
10:49:51 place, Tampa, Florida based upon certain findings
10:49:54 providing for notice to the property appraiser of
10:49:56 Hillsborough County, providing for severability,
10:49:59 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
10:50:01 providing an effective date.

10:50:02 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
10:50:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:50:09 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miller and Caetano
10:50:11 being absent at vote.
10:50:12 Second reading of the ordinance will be held January
10:50:15 22nd at 9:30 a.m.
10:50:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 62, and this is Councilwoman
10:50:23 Mulhern's and Dingfelder's item.
10:50:30 Administration to appear and provide a report.
10:50:40 The drug enforcement.
10:50:50 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Sorry for the hesitation.
10:50:53 I had it marked down differently.
10:50:54 Basically, in response to Councilwoman Mulhern's
10:50:58 request, we did take a look at the e-mails related to
10:51:03 drug and other enforcement activities in the Capaz
10:51:10 area.
10:51:10 There are two issues in the e-mail.
10:51:12 One was the methods, basically the methods the police
10:51:17 department had top go through in order to prove
10:51:21 certain drug cases, and the police department has put
10:51:24 together a list of their activities in that area, and
10:51:27 I can make that available to you, and they have had

10:51:30 active drug enforcement cases.
10:51:33 But as you might remember from the e-mail there was
10:51:37 some concern that there was too much what I would call
10:51:39 due process afforded to the folks involved in the
10:51:43 illicit drug activities.
10:51:45 And we did go back through and research, and those
10:51:48 were all included in the response to early specific
10:51:51 court cases over the years.
10:51:53 So we believe that those processes are not only
10:51:58 recommended but required to ensure that when those law
10:52:01 enforcement activities occur, assuming they follow
10:52:04 those procedures, that they are fully defensible and
10:52:06 doesn't create any liability for the city.
10:52:08 And I can go into those in more detail if you would
10:52:10 like.
10:52:12 The second part of the issue raised in the e-mail was
10:52:18 related to the requirement for the Nuisance Abatement
10:52:20 Board.
10:52:22 And again there was some concern about the steps we
10:52:28 are required to go through prior to taking action
10:52:30 through the Nuisance Abatement Board.
10:52:32 And each of the things identified in the e-mail are

10:52:35 actually required by statute.
10:52:36 So the nuisance abatement board is what I would call a
10:52:40 highly regulated city board by the state legislature.
10:52:46 And we have had a lot of discussion going back to when
10:52:49 I was on council related to the Nuisance Abatement
10:52:51 Board.
10:52:53 And this e-mail actually kind of highlights the
10:52:56 limitations of that board, because you are required to
10:52:58 basically go through and give the property owner the
10:53:04 opportunity to cure the problems and give them know
10:53:07 and take steps to allow them to run their business
10:53:11 without violating the law prior to actually shutting
10:53:15 down a business.
10:53:16 And even under some circumstances, when the Nuisance
10:53:18 Abatement Board does shut down the business, you can
10:53:21 be required to pay for the value of that business, if
10:53:24 you can't demonstrate that they can offer it without
10:53:27 violating the law.
10:53:28 So those types of things are really required, and
10:53:33 that's one of the issues we have had with the Nuisance
10:53:35 Abatement Board.
10:53:36 A lot of businesses when they receive notice takes

10:53:40 steps to at least initially correct the illegal
10:53:43 activity.
10:53:44 So that's kind of the summary of my response.
10:53:50 I can get into more detail if you like.
10:53:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go ahead.
10:53:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I think what would be helpful -- I
10:53:56 don't know if you already put this in writing -- but
10:53:58 basically what you just told us as a written response
10:54:00 to Mr. Gegunde.
10:54:06 >>> I can do that.
10:54:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Then a couple questions.
10:54:09 You talked about the businesses having an opportunity.
10:54:13 And I'm not sure, if he was just referring to
10:54:18 businesses.
10:54:19 I think his concern in his neighborhood is more
10:54:22 residential.
10:54:23 I don't remember exactly what he said in his e-mail
10:54:26 originally.
10:54:27 But if there's a way that maybe you could address if
10:54:34 it was just businesses that he was concerned about,
10:54:36 then that's fine.
10:54:37 But if he was also concerned about residential, then

10:54:40 you can address that question, too.
10:54:54 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Basically, I think you are
10:54:55 probably, nuisance abatement boards can't take action
10:54:59 against residences, but again these due process
10:55:02 requirement apply, the same process, and the same
10:55:06 standards apply.
10:55:07 And so as you might imagine, I think someone is
10:55:12 capable of moving in a home without violating the law
10:55:16 so the ability to close that building through using
10:55:18 the Nuisance Abatement Board would be extremely
10:55:20 limited if it is a residential property.
10:55:23 But I have actually an outline of all the information
10:55:26 I presented.
10:55:27 I can quickly put that into a letter and provide that.
10:55:30 >>MARY MULHERN: That would be great.
10:55:32 And then because it was coming from, well, one
10:55:36 individual but representing that Capaz area, crime
10:55:43 watch.
10:55:45 The other thing that this reminded me of, especially
10:55:48 since we were approving volunteer appointees today, is
10:55:54 that we have a hard time filling that board.
10:55:56 So if Mr. Gegunde is listening maybe he would like to

10:56:01 volunteer to be on the Nuisance Abatement Board.
10:56:04 I don't know if he's qualified but I know we have a
10:56:06 really hard time getting a quorum.
10:56:08 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: And that's something we may want
10:56:11 to talk about because what's happening now that we
10:56:13 have the board in place we are required to send out
10:56:15 these notices with fairly detailed information.
10:56:19 That in and of itself is actually having some impact
10:56:24 in at least three instances both in change of business
10:56:27 operation, and at least one instance actually closing
10:56:30 a business.
10:56:31 So there is value in having the Nuisance Abatement
10:56:33 Board in place, everyone though we are not bringing a
10:56:36 lot of cases.
10:56:37 Most of the ones they are working out are being
10:56:40 resolved through other what I would call
10:56:43 pre-litigation activities by the business owners.
10:56:45 So while we haven't had a lot of cases we have
10:56:50 actually seen some benefit from having the board in
10:56:52 place, and I think that's an excellent idea.
10:56:55 The other thing we could talk about is if we continue
10:56:57 not to have an active schedule for that board, but

10:57:06 have a need to keep it in place which I think we could
10:57:09 do.
10:57:10 We could consider folding that into another board and
10:57:12 having one group of people sit in multiple capacities,
10:57:15 so that we don't have people on a board that they
10:57:17 don't feel like they are contributing.
10:57:20 >> Statutorily, do you have to have them?
10:57:23 >> To go through the nuisance abatement process, you
10:57:26 have to have a board in place.
10:57:28 Now, how that board is constituted is up to discretion
10:57:31 of the city.
10:57:32 >> So it can't just be part of code enforcement?
10:57:35 >> It could be.
10:57:36 Doesn't have to be a separate board.
10:57:38 We could role it in and they can sit sometimes as the
10:57:42 Code Enforcement Board and sometimes as the Nuisance
10:57:44 Abatement Board.
10:57:45 >> Maybe if you could put that in your letter, too,
10:57:47 and then copy me, and I'll talk to him after.
10:57:53 Thanks a lot for protecting people's due process.
10:57:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 63.
10:58:02 Mr. Fletcher, I believe, is back up.

10:58:11 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney on item 63.
10:58:14 The request was to consider the possibility of
10:58:18 amending the charter to provide for an additional
10:58:21 30-day period to present the budget to the City
10:58:24 Council.
10:58:27 As I think we mentioned when that came up, the process
10:58:29 we have in place right now basically requires to
10:58:34 submit it 45 days prior to adoption.
10:58:38 We get from the county the final tax roll numbers in
10:58:45 July.
10:58:46 That gives the staff usually about 30 days or so to
10:58:50 take those numbers and put those into a budget.
10:58:55 My view -- and Ms. Wise will speak as well -- is that
10:59:01 seems like a reasonable approach.
10:59:05 Based on my understanding of how our budget process
10:59:08 works they actually need all that time to put the data
10:59:11 together.
10:59:13 If we were to change the charter, we would have a
10:59:15 situation where there would be a budget presented that
10:59:18 really was not based on the information that would be
10:59:22 ultimately required to adopt the final budget, so we
10:59:26 would have to figure out a way of addressing that

10:59:28 conflict.
10:59:29 But I think Ms. Wise would like to talk a little more
10:59:33 about their budget process and what they do and how
10:59:36 that process develops, and how that would be in
10:59:39 conflict with going earlier.
10:59:44 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to hear from Ms. Wise because I
10:59:48 talked to her yesterday, not about the charter, a
10:59:51 possible charter amendment, to schedule budget
10:59:55 hearings and process throughout this year.
10:59:57 So I want to hear from Bonnie.
10:59:59 >>> Before we get to that point there is one other
11:00:04 thing I did want to mention.
11:00:06 In terms of informally providing information through
11:00:09 meetings like you are describing earlier, that isn't
11:00:14 as much an issue because what the charter requires is
11:00:16 a balanced budget to actually present a balanced
11:00:19 budget before we get those numbers would be a
11:00:21 challenge.
11:00:22 So a dialogue earlier, I think, would fit within our
11:00:25 current charter structure and probably be more
11:00:27 appropriate.
11:00:28 But to actually try to submit a balanced budget

11:00:31 earlier than the tax roll date would be a challenge, I
11:00:34 think.
11:00:34 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you so much for saying that.
11:00:44 That's really the issue for us on council.
11:00:46 If we can resolve the fact that we don't feel we get
11:00:49 the proposals and especially by department a little
11:00:55 earlier, and that's what I was telling Ms. Wise
11:01:01 yesterday is we are concerned with a balance budget,
11:01:04 at that moment we are concerned with the general idea
11:01:07 of what -- which way the administration wants to go
11:01:10 and making sure that, you know, we can see some
11:01:14 specifics by departments.
11:01:15 So I think that if we can figure out a way to do this
11:01:18 and at least try it, this coming year, then we
11:01:22 probably still have enough time if we decide we need
11:01:25 to change the charter to do that before, I guess, 2010
11:01:29 is the he will earliest we can get a charter change on
11:01:33 the ballot.
11:01:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Before Ms. Wise comes, I would say the
11:01:39 challenge I think is perhaps the software you are
11:01:44 using.
11:01:44 I will tell you that at the county they get their

11:01:47 budget the first week of June, and they do have a
11:01:52 reconciliation period, once they get the final numbers
11:01:54 in July, which is generally about the last meeting in
11:01:58 September.
11:01:58 But they have a system where they can -- it's a little
11:02:05 more productive and easier to work with versus what
11:02:07 the city has.
11:02:08 So what I would much more like to see is maybe in the
11:02:11 future looking at what the county has, or looking at
11:02:14 what budgeting to update software to help you get the
11:02:23 information, that will be more appropriate.
11:02:25 I think that's the way to go and would be more
11:02:28 helpful.
11:02:28 Because I know the county already started on their
11:02:31 budget process now, this month, and will be having
11:02:35 workshops and that sort of thing.
11:02:36 But generally county commission gets the budget first
11:02:39 week in June.
11:02:40 So I just want to mention that.
11:02:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you for that information.
11:02:45 But I did notice when I was going over the consent
11:02:48 agenda yesterday that we did budget some money.

11:02:51 Didn't we approve today something for software for
11:02:54 you?
11:02:55 Is it going to help?
11:02:57 Isn't there something on there we are paying?
11:03:01 >>BONNIE WISE: Not something regarding the financial
11:03:04 system.
11:03:04 There may have been something for budget and finance.
11:03:06 >> You can address that for us.
11:03:10 >>BONNIE WISE: Director of revenue and finance.
11:03:12 Thank you.
11:03:14 I will tell you that the budget process is really
11:03:16 quite cumbersome, and it is a big part is due to our
11:03:22 financial system, and we have what's called the FAMIS
11:03:30 system.
11:03:31 The county has it, too.
11:03:32 The city has not upgraded its financial system since
11:03:36 it's been implemented.
11:03:38 >> What was that, '85?
11:03:40 >> It was a little later than '85.
11:03:43 It was in the 90s, however.
11:03:45 Think about cell phones, for example.
11:03:47 You remember those early cell phones.

11:03:48 I remember my first one was mounted in my car.
11:03:51 If you had not updated it and technology of course has
11:03:55 changed significantly.
11:03:56 But one of the things worry doing and we do have money
11:03:58 in then '09 budget for the term ERP system, now, the
11:04:02 system where we talk to each other, the financial
11:04:05 system, and it's going to be an ongoing process, and
11:04:09 we are working with the county, interestingly enough,
11:04:11 the county does have an agenda item coming up, just
11:04:15 came up or coming up for them to implement an ERP
11:04:19 system, and the county has made improvements to their
11:04:21 financial system but yet they still recognize the need
11:04:24 for an ERP system.
11:04:26 So we are working with them.
11:04:27 So it is very difficult when we get the property tax
11:04:30 numbers, the final property tax numbers, in July.
11:04:32 The other numbers that come in late, two were from the
11:04:36 state and these are for sales tax, communication
11:04:38 services tax, gas tax, those major revenue sources
11:04:42 that come in late, and you have seen from the state
11:04:45 that they keep revising their estimates on these types
11:04:48 of revenues.

11:04:49 So in years especially when they are seeing
11:04:51 modifications these are big swings in numbers so it's
11:04:54 not where it's an immaterial amount of money that we
11:04:57 can make a change easily.
11:04:59 These are millions of dollars that vary, and would
11:05:01 have a significant impact on what we would present,
11:05:05 and we of course have to present a credible budget to
11:05:10 you and without that information I don't feel I would
11:05:12 be doing a good job and giving you information that's
11:05:15 adequately represented so it would be difficult.
11:05:17 I can take you back two years ago, remember, when the
11:05:20 legislature required us to roll back the millage rate.
11:05:22 They had a special session in the summer, and then
11:05:26 they had us roll back the millage rates.
11:05:28 Had this been in place, we would have violated the
11:05:31 charter if we had been required to do it 30 days
11:05:35 earlier.
11:05:36 It would just be impossible to make that requirement.
11:05:40 Yes, we want to give you as much information as
11:05:42 possible.
11:05:43 Yes, we want to have an open dialogue and get this
11:05:47 done.

11:05:47 But it's just the whole combination of issues.
11:05:50 So I think if we work together, we can get a better
11:05:52 product, get it out earlier, and just do our best,
11:05:57 make these necessary improvements over time.
11:06:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:06:02 Since you have been the finance director, we have
11:06:05 continually improved in our communication, but we
11:06:09 still -- we council members, I think, really benefit
11:06:12 from the kinds of sessions that we had a few weeks
11:06:14 ago, the mayor's office, where things are going.
11:06:19 As council what we can do is provide sort of policy
11:06:23 input to the administration, and those aren't a dollar
11:06:28 here, a dollar there.
11:06:29 It's broader.
11:06:30 I think we would benefit from continuing what we are
11:06:32 doing, even enhancing it in terms of opportunities,
11:06:38 broadly where the initiatives of the administration,
11:06:40 where you are going to be spending money listening to
11:06:42 our concerns.
11:06:43 But since it's January and the state legislature is
11:06:46 going to be looking at their revenues and things, I
11:06:49 would assume that the city is going to weigh in

11:06:52 through our lobbyists in Tallahassee on what they are
11:06:54 doing in the state.
11:06:56 And council is very interested in this.
11:06:58 We need the state to have decent revenue, so the state
11:07:04 government doesn't fall apart.
11:07:05 And I would be very interested in your getting with us
11:07:07 and telling us what the city is doing in terms of
11:07:09 lobbying our legislators in Tallahassee, so that we
11:07:13 have adequate state revenue.
11:07:18 Because we have relationships with the legislators.
11:07:20 We might be able to weigh in or help or whatever.
11:07:23 But we certainly want to be engaged in the
11:07:25 conversation.
11:07:25 And frankly, I felt the council's concerns for
11:07:30 Tallahassee, there hasn't been a forum for us to share
11:07:35 with the administration what you are doing, what we
11:07:37 are interested in doing, to work together to maximize
11:07:39 the city's impact in terms of convincing our
11:07:42 legislators to be more responsible.
11:07:49 >>> We are very closely monitoring what's going on in
11:07:52 Tallahassee.
11:07:52 Worry very concerned the way Tallahassee fixes their

11:07:55 problem will be a detriment to local government.
11:07:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:07:59 >>> We are really having to watch that.
11:08:01 This happened several years ago with articles 5 where
11:08:04 the counties get hit hard where they changed
11:08:07 distribution formulas on revenues.
11:08:09 So this is the kind of thing that as they need to
11:08:11 really look at their revenue that they don't pass on
11:08:14 additional services to local government that are not
11:08:17 funded, or that like a sales tax split, municipal
11:08:21 refuse now sharing split, court fees, traffic tickets,
11:08:26 for example, that all the splits get modified.
11:08:29 So it is an ongoing basis.
11:08:31 So that's what's happening in the special session
11:08:34 where they are addressing their billion-three
11:08:38 shortfall and what are they going to do about changing
11:08:40 things like a save our homes change, like things we
11:08:43 have heard caps on expenditures.
11:08:46 These are all things that have been turned around.
11:08:52 We need to monitor that closely.
11:08:54 >> Monitoring is a very passive word.
11:08:56 I'm asking council to be active.

11:09:01 Say we want to impose an additional cigarette tax,
11:09:04 because we want you to have money for our
11:09:06 transportation system, or education system.
11:09:09 So rather than reporting to us after the fact what's
11:09:15 happened, what I would like to suggest is at our next
11:09:20 council meeting, under staff report, that the
11:09:22 administration share with us how you are planning to
11:09:27 communicate with the legislature in ways in which we
11:09:30 could support that effort by council action to get the
11:09:38 legislature to act more responsibly.
11:09:43 So a motion for the next council meeting to get back a
11:09:48 report and appearance on how the administration will
11:09:54 communicate with our state legislators and how we can
11:09:57 be helpful in that.
11:10:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
11:10:02 >>MARY MULHERN: Mr. Fletcher is going to tell us how
11:10:06 he's intimately involved in these lobbying efforts
11:10:09 because of his experience in Tallahassee.
11:10:10 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Well, what I am going to say is
11:10:13 that Bill Peebles is our lobbyist in Tallahassee.
11:10:19 They are in special session right now.
11:10:20 They talk pretty regularly.

11:10:22 But quite frankly, at this point, all local
11:10:25 governments are in largely reactive mode.
11:10:32 And I'm happy to come back and present and explain to
11:10:34 you what we are doing.
11:10:35 But this special session obviously will be over by
11:10:38 then, and we'll be talking about the new session that
11:10:40 will start in March.
11:10:46 And if you all are interested in passing some
11:10:48 resolutions on cigarette tax or other revenues to
11:10:51 protect other sources of money that might be available
11:10:56 for the city, I think that would be wonderful.
11:10:58 We can talk about that.
11:10:59 However, my experience in Tallahassee and this session
11:11:06 is not any different, I don't know that we can expect
11:11:09 to rely on necessarily significant changes in the
11:11:11 especially the Florida house's speakers direction on
11:11:14 those issues.
11:11:15 So while I'm fine with doing that, I don't want to
11:11:20 give you false hope that we are going to be terribly
11:11:23 successful.
11:11:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Can I finish?
11:11:26 I was going to suggest to Linda that we should do

11:11:34 that, and I think we need to do it -- are we having
11:11:39 another regular council meeting before?
11:11:40 So I think we need to do that.
11:11:42 Maybe you can come back.
11:11:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: After lunch.
11:11:46 >>MARY MULHERN: Then the other thing I wanted to bring
11:11:48 up and hear from your input on this and Wan Bonnie
11:11:51 thought about it, but we met yesterday to talk about
11:11:53 our budget workshops, and I have attentive schedule
11:11:57 that I would like to present, see if we could agree on
11:12:00 that today.
11:12:00 So I don't know if you want me to bring this back in
11:12:03 new business, or since Bonnie is here, maybe we should
11:12:07 talk about the budget schedule when we are done with
11:12:08 this item.
11:12:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm certainly not opposed to
11:12:23 sending a resolution, depending on how it's worded,
11:12:26 and again I say depending on how it's worded.
11:12:29 Tallahassee, any other capital in any state in the
11:12:35 country, basically has the same problems, and maybe
11:12:40 some states more than others.
11:12:41 This state certainly has a very limited amount of

11:12:45 revenues collected under the tax system, because they
11:12:47 don't have other taxes, and maybe that's rightly
11:12:50 correct.
11:12:51 That's up to those individuals in Tallahassee to
11:12:53 decide.
11:12:54 But I can tell you that City of Tampa is not the only
11:12:59 one that's asking for something.
11:13:01 Every community, today I saw law enforcement
11:13:10 department, Florida Department of Law Enforcement,
11:13:12 they are not immune either at this time.
11:13:15 There's going to be some measures taken.
11:13:18 They were log at a shortfall of about 2.3 billion
11:13:22 dollars.
11:13:23 And in the last week and a half they grew by another
11:13:26 100 million.
11:13:27 So when you start looking at how fast it is growing,
11:13:30 that means that they don't look so good, don't looking
11:13:35 so good means it's terrible, when you look at the
11:13:38 financing structure, and those revenues that are
11:13:41 collected by sales tax when they continue to decrease.
11:13:46 I read this morning where even hospitals are at the
11:13:51 brink of closing and I am not trying to paint a very

11:13:54 dim picture of life but of reality of life.
11:13:57 The facts that are being distributed are certainly
11:14:00 going to be severely cut.
11:14:06 That our citizens are entitled to get the best of
11:14:10 services.
11:14:12 But the problem is, how do we arrive at that?
11:14:15 I'm certainly not opposed to increase, but those
11:14:26 should be earmarked for special projects that are
11:14:28 really needed by the city and prioritized, itemized
11:14:31 list.
11:14:32 So that's my the only thing I want to say,
11:14:36 Mr. Chairman.
11:14:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:14:38 Anything else?
11:14:39 >> We need a vote on her motion.
11:14:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Restate your motion.
11:14:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It was that we have a report back
11:14:47 under staff reports at our second meeting in January.
11:14:51 The city lobbying efforts of our legislators.
11:14:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll file that.
11:14:57 That's no problem.
11:14:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's moved and seconded.

11:15:00 All in favor?
11:15:01 (Motion carried)
11:15:02 So moved.
11:15:08 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, while Bonnie Wise is still here,
11:15:12 I wanted to propose, I think the first -- we are going
11:15:21 to talk about it so I can come back with them after
11:15:23 lunch.
11:15:24 And maybe we can pass it after lunch, if we agree on
11:15:27 it now.
11:15:28 But I want to say these now for Bonnie's benefit.
11:15:32 I think we agreed yesterday that the six-month revenue
11:15:35 and expenditure report overview could be April
11:15:40 23rd at our workshop.
11:15:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Right.
11:15:43 >>MARY MULHERN: So I think that's an agreed date
11:15:45 between administration and council.
11:15:47 Then last year we had talked about maybe having, since
11:15:52 we only had two budget workshops last year, but used
11:15:56 to have more, we were kind of kicking it around, and
11:16:00 one of the ideas was to have four, and then I thought
11:16:03 after talking to Bonnie and Jim Stefan yesterday, that
11:16:06 maybe we could make it three as a sort of compromise,

11:16:10 and in the interest of getting as many council members
11:16:14 as we could.
11:16:16 So I'm going to make this first recommendation with
11:16:21 asking you to -- I know we were talking about how
11:16:28 difficult it is for you because you don't get the
11:16:30 final numbers.
11:16:31 But I would trust your worst case scenario, at the
11:16:35 first budget workshop.
11:16:36 And I actually think that you are probably much better
11:16:39 at those kind of estimates than people in the state
11:16:42 are but I know we are dependent on what they are going
11:16:44 to do, too.
11:16:45 But as far as the property tax, you know, that part of
11:16:47 it, I totally trust you and think you could do it so
11:16:51 my proposal for the first date would be May 28th,
11:16:55 because that is the closest date we got to your June
11:16:59 1st suggestion for a workshop day.
11:17:02 So it's a little earlier than you wanted.
11:17:04 But I think because of our workshop schedule is the
11:17:07 only way that we would be able to fit three in.
11:17:10 And then the second one could be on June 11th.
11:17:17 This is actually would have to be a special session

11:17:22 following our CRA meeting, because since we have a
11:17:27 different schedule now it's hard to get everything in
11:17:29 a workshop than if you are trying to dot once a month.
11:17:33 So June 11 at 11 a.m., special session following the
11:17:36 CRA meeting.
11:17:38 And then June 18th at 9 a.m., which is a scheduled
11:17:44 workshop day.
11:17:46 And since the calendar is pretty clear right now, I
11:17:49 think it's a good time.
11:17:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:17:57 >>MARY MULHERN: So we can hear from Bonnie about what
11:18:00 she thinks about those dates and then come back and if
11:18:04 it's okay with her we can pass it after lunch.
11:18:07 >>BONNIE WISE: Those dates are fine.
11:18:09 We'll just get together and determine whether we are
11:18:11 going to want to focus on, for example, we might want
11:18:14 to have a day of enterprise funds, a day of general
11:18:17 fund, see how to break it up and how we can get the
11:18:20 best information to you and what type of information
11:18:22 to provide to you prior to the meetings so that you
11:18:24 can have your books at those meetings.
11:18:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Why don't we just vote on the date and

11:18:29 then you and Ms. Wise get together on how you want
11:18:34 those.
11:18:36 >>MARY MULHERN: If everyone is okay with that, move
11:18:38 the resolution for those dates.
11:18:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So it's been moved and seconded.
11:18:42 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:18:44 Opposes?
11:18:44 Those are the dates for the workshop on the budget.
11:18:50 And I would suggest, Councilwoman Mulhern, you provide
11:18:54 the rest of the council with those items.
11:18:56 And then you and Ms. Wise get together.
11:19:00 Okay.
11:19:01 We have one other item that's left on our agenda, and
11:19:03 that's item 34 that was pulled this morning.
11:19:06 Then we'll go to new business.
11:19:07 And then we will come back after lunch.
11:19:14 Item 34.
11:19:28 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.
11:19:31 In working with staff, it appears the activity itself
11:19:37 is on private property and there was request to close
11:19:40 a street for purposes of traffic control, which is
11:19:45 something that I think the city thinks is in the

11:19:48 public's interest to have that traffic control in
11:19:49 place.
11:19:51 So while we think that it's an appropriate mechanism
11:19:54 for dealing with that, it turns out -- and you may
11:19:59 want to speak to this a little bit -- is we don't have
11:20:02 a valid insurance certificate yet.
11:20:05 We did look and see, with all the volume coming
11:20:10 through from the Super Bowl, there was a promise that
11:20:13 it would be sent overnight, and it was not sent
11:20:18 overnight, so we would recommend that it get pulled
11:20:20 for that reason.
11:20:21 We have double checked to make sure the other ones did
11:20:24 have valid insurance certificates, because you did
11:20:27 have others of similar nature before you this morning.
11:20:30 But this one did not have an insurance certificate.
11:20:34 And if in fact had it been approved on consent, they
11:20:37 would not have been authorized to go forward without
11:20:39 that insurance certificate.
11:20:40 So at this point we would recommend that it be
11:20:43 withdrawn and we bring it back to you if in fact we
11:20:46 get that insurance certificate.
11:20:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a couple of questions.

11:20:54 Insurance certificate or not, this is a proposal --
11:20:56 most of these proposals are at a place like a
11:21:00 restaurant or commercial business.
11:21:01 This is at a raw land in the middle of an established
11:21:04 neighborhood.
11:21:05 And the anticipated ending time is 1 a.m
11:21:10 There are a couple of questions raised this morning.
11:21:11 One is, is the neighborhood organization notified of
11:21:15 this?
11:21:16 Because that neighborhood organization, the North Hyde
11:21:18 Park neighborhood organization, they are really
11:21:22 vigilant.
11:21:23 And they did send a representative down but I don't
11:21:25 think that they are generally aware.
11:21:26 I think we would have had a room full of people.
11:21:29 Secondly, what kind of scrutiny does council have to
11:21:32 say, this could be a major misery for the
11:21:35 neighborhood?
11:21:36 Because they are anticipating several thousand people.
11:21:39 This is a major concern.
11:21:40 What is our level of scrutiny?
11:21:43 How are we able to review this?

11:21:49 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: This particular item that came
11:21:50 before you was for a temporary street closure.
11:21:56 That was brought about, I think, based on a
11:21:59 recommendation internally from someone in the city
11:22:02 that thought it would be helpful to deal with traffic
11:22:04 control.
11:22:08 Those are very limited basically right-of-way oriented
11:22:11 permit.
11:22:11 Even though it was before you, quite frankly, I'm not
11:22:14 sure under what basis you would have denied that, if
11:22:19 things like safety, insurance certificates, those
11:22:21 types of things were in place.
11:22:25 Quite frankly, other than other types of noise
11:22:30 ordinance, requirements, in this case, if there was a
11:22:33 reference in the title to a lingerie bowl, whether it
11:22:36 was adult use, or nudity limitations, those types of
11:22:40 things, I'm not sure how much control we would have on
11:22:44 the private property in those locations.
11:22:46 That may be something we want to look at.
11:22:48 But --
11:22:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If liquor is sold don't we have
11:22:51 some --

11:22:53 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: They applied for and would have
11:22:55 the right if they met the standards ton
11:22:57 administratively obtain a special temporary liquor
11:23:01 license.
11:23:02 Now whether they meet those requirements, I don't
11:23:04 know.
11:23:05 And whether or not one had been approved, I don't
11:23:07 know.
11:23:08 But that is not something that would have come before
11:23:10 council.
11:23:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
11:23:13 >>MARY MULHERN: I am going back to look at the
11:23:16 resolution.
11:23:16 It was 34.
11:23:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, 34.
11:23:19 >>MARY MULHERN: But we have to approve special event
11:23:22 permits, is that right? Or is it just because they
11:23:24 want a street closing?
11:23:27 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Well, quite frankly, it not clear
11:23:30 in the code that it has to come to you all.
11:23:32 We think that the practice has been that it come to
11:23:36 you all.

11:23:40 While on the one hand I think it's appropriate, and
11:23:42 you all need to know when these things are going on, I
11:23:45 think we need to be careful when we bring things to
11:23:47 you, you do have the discretion whether to determine
11:23:49 whether or not it should be issued or not.
11:23:51 I don't know that it's doing anyone a service to bring
11:23:55 you things that we have to say, well, you have no
11:23:58 choice to approve them because they meet the bright
11:24:01 line tests that we have in our code.
11:24:03 So we may want to discuss that at some point.
11:24:07 But this does come to you all, and there are fairly
11:24:12 straightforward standards.
11:24:16 >>MARY MULHERN: Can I follow up?
11:24:18 I'm sorry.
11:24:19 But I think that's the first time I ever heard that.
11:24:21 Because every week, we approve or deny special use
11:24:25 permits.
11:24:29 This is on the consent agenda.
11:24:30 But they are not everyone always on the consent
11:24:32 agenda, I don't think.
11:24:33 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: There are a whole host of things
11:24:37 in our code called special use permits.

11:24:39 Road closures are only one of that category.
11:24:42 If it was we tend to call activities in parks special
11:24:47 event permits, those are under a different chapter and
11:24:49 a completely different mechanism.
11:24:53 So --
11:24:56 >>MARY MULHERN: So this would not have come to council
11:24:58 for just special use liquor license?
11:25:03 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: That is my understanding.
11:25:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We simply delegated that to staff.
11:25:12 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We are in the process, we have
11:25:13 developed and are kind of meeting with council
11:25:17 members, meeting with the public, a complete rewrite
11:25:20 of this special event, special use permitting process
11:25:23 that does have a clear and explicit review by council.
11:25:26 So that we do create a clear opportunity for you all
11:25:29 to make a decision on these.
11:25:32 So I think we are correcting this problem.
11:25:34 But I will say, I think the concern is we have a lot
11:25:37 of these coming before you all.
11:25:39 >>MARY MULHERN: One more question with regard to the
11:25:43 specific permit.
11:25:46 Take T area where they are asking for the permit, is

11:25:51 it that the owner of the property has signed off on
11:25:54 this?
11:25:57 As you were saying it's private property, we can't
11:25:59 necessarily say what they do there.
11:26:01 Does that happen in order for the permit to get
11:26:06 approved administratively?
11:26:12 >>> The permits for the activity on the property, the
11:26:14 private property, would be submitted by the property
11:26:16 owner or their agent, and then this right-of-way
11:26:22 permit would be at the request of that property owner.
11:26:25 >>MARY MULHERN: So the property owner of this property
11:26:28 is the person who submitted?
11:26:31 >>> I think it would be their agent.
11:26:33 >> Their agent.
11:26:34 Okay.
11:26:34 So that they have to somehow for our satisfaction the
11:26:39 property owner has to sign off somewhere that that is
11:26:41 their agent?
11:26:44 >>> I'm not sure that it's -- yes, I think that's
11:26:47 correct.
11:26:49 >>MARY MULHERN: Because of what Linda brought up, this
11:26:50 open space, who owns it and what is it?

11:26:54 >>> Susan Robinson, parks and rec.
11:26:58 The property owner Hillsborough to provide us their
11:27:00 notice that they approve this event being on their
11:27:03 private property, before we -- would not have been
11:27:09 involved.
11:27:11 But because the police department recommended for
11:27:13 security and for parking issues they wanted a portion
11:27:15 of Twiggs Street closed.
11:27:18 Those what put them into the loop to get a special
11:27:21 event for the street closure for the security and the
11:27:24 parking.
11:27:28 >>MARY MULHERN: This is the thing that raises the red
11:27:30 flag for me, and I guess maybe we have been approving
11:27:33 these all the time I have been on council.
11:27:35 But if they are getting liquor license to hold a
11:27:39 special event on private property, doesn't it
11:27:44 presently come in front of council?
11:27:49 >>> That's my understanding.
11:27:51 >> I think it's administrative for temporary wet
11:27:53 zoning.
11:27:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Because we changed the rules,
11:27:55 right?

11:27:55 Up until about two years ago they came to council.
11:27:58 For whatever reason we decided that most of them, 99%
11:28:03 of them were just kind of rubber stamped, and we
11:28:06 changed the rule, and we deferred it to the
11:28:08 administration to review those.
11:28:10 And if we want top bring it back --
11:28:16 >>> There's two issues.
11:28:17 One is the administrative liquor license.
11:28:21 As I recall there were problems especially coming on
11:28:24 to say New Year's Eve, someone would want to do an
11:28:29 event, say the one I recall is the West Tampa
11:28:32 convention center, they didn't know they needed to get
11:28:34 their permit and were scrambling at the last hour
11:28:36 trying to get folks permits so they could have
11:28:41 champagne at their New Year's Eve party.
11:28:44 This obviously is a different animal.
11:28:46 >>MARY MULHERN: I think that's what we need to look
11:28:50 at.
11:28:50 >> The other issue is the whole concept, the rules and
11:28:53 regulations, the city regulating these special events.
11:28:56 And that's what we are rewriting.
11:29:00 I think you all everybody briefed on it previously.

11:29:04 We have asked to -- we are meeting with members of the
11:29:06 public on that.
11:29:07 And that's actually going to create a enclosure
11:29:09 procedure, which I think is important to articulate
11:29:14 the administrative review, and the institutes where
11:29:19 council review occur so we have a clear decision point
11:29:22 for council.
11:29:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
11:29:29 On item 64, we need a motion to -- yes.
11:29:33 >>MARY MULHERN: Need to move to remove.
11:29:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A vote to remove it from the agenda.
11:29:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Which includes 64 in that.
11:29:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Number 64.
11:29:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A motion to remove 64 and 34 from the
11:29:49 agenda.
11:29:49 Is there a second?
11:29:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
11:29:50 (Motion carried).
11:29:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What happened to 64?
11:29:58 >> Requested to remove.
11:30:02 >> Really?
11:30:03 Have they withdrawn?

11:30:05 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: It not coming back, right?
11:30:07 >> After all that.
11:30:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: New business?
11:30:10 New business?
11:30:11 New business?
11:30:13 >>MARY MULHERN: I have some that I have.
11:30:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm sure all of you are aware there
11:30:19 was a champion created not too long ago by hard work
11:30:23 and determination and skill and maybe a little luck
11:30:29 once in a while.
11:30:30 And I'm not talking about you, Mr. Chairman.
11:30:34 Plant High School was a 4-A champion in football.
11:30:37 And I think we had another school prior to that was
11:30:40 Tampa Catholic, and I would like to invite with
11:30:43 council's request the members, the coaches and whoever
11:30:47 you would like to bring from the team to receive a
11:30:49 commendation from council, and maybe at the same time,
11:30:52 Mr. Dingfelder, we can do two at once.
11:30:54 And I'll tell you what.
11:30:55 Some time ago we offered a commendation for the
11:30:59 Coleman middle school basketball girls who haven't Los
11:31:03 lost a game, everyone though they only played five

11:31:05 games a year, and about eight or nine or maybe ten
11:31:08 years.
11:31:08 Some of those girls have already graduated out of
11:31:11 class and are in college.
11:31:13 But there are still girls on the varsity squad at --
11:31:19 Coleman is one of the feeder schools at Plant High
11:31:21 School.
11:31:22 And if we could do both of them on that same day, and
11:31:24 I would ask that we find out what day that is before
11:31:29 we put it on the agenda.
11:31:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:31:32 >> So I would like to make that as a motion for a
11:31:35 commendation.
11:31:36 I think one has already been made, laying in the
11:31:38 office for awhile, so they can both appear at the same
11:31:40 time.
11:31:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:31:43 Second?
11:31:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:31:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
11:31:46 (Motion carried).
11:31:49 Councilman Dingfelder.

11:31:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I saw the mayor is going to be
11:31:53 doing something on that as well.
11:31:56 Maybe we can coordinate it.
11:31:57 I also mentioned to the mayor's office I think the
11:32:02 girls cross country team won the state championship
11:32:07 around the same time as the boys football team.
11:32:09 So I'll make a motion that we also extend an offer to
11:32:17 the girls team.
11:32:20 I'll check.
11:32:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think the volleyball team.
11:32:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Volleyball.
11:32:29 I knew it was a girls team.
11:32:32 It's either girls volleyball or -- I'll do that and
11:32:37 continue it as a motion.
11:32:40 >> Volleyball.
11:32:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: One says volleyball.
11:32:46 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:32:49 Opposes?
11:32:49 Okay.
11:32:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And on another note about our
11:32:54 schools, I have been involved the last couple weeks
11:32:58 and attended a long meeting last night over at Coleman

11:33:02 middle about the proposed cell phone tower that you
11:33:06 all have been receiving those e-mails and everything.
11:33:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
11:33:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So I have become a lot more
11:33:11 knowledgeable about the cell towers, about the
11:33:14 community's concern about cell towers, especially as
11:33:17 related to this particular proposed cell tower, not
11:33:21 only is on school property but it's actually up
11:33:26 against our city pool.
11:33:27 I mean, it's within falling distance of our city pool
11:33:31 over there at Coleman.
11:33:35 And that concerned me greatly, just from the city's
11:33:37 perspective, not to mention the school, student
11:33:41 concerns as well.
11:33:43 In taking a look at chapter 27-134, which is our
11:33:53 regulations about the cell towers, and I know there
11:33:56 are federal constraints and everything else.
11:33:59 But what I found interesting -- and by the way, we are
11:34:03 also guilty of this, apparently, and I have asked the
11:34:06 clerk to look into this, apparently the city leased
11:34:09 out the top of the plant high water tower, and there's
11:34:13 a cell phone antenna hanging right off the water

11:34:17 tower, and we are making money off of that, right
11:34:19 there at plant high, now.
11:34:21 Everybody knows where that water tower is.
11:34:25 So I'm not saying this is just the school board.
11:34:27 Apparently, we are taking advantage of this, and
11:34:30 making money off of it, and money is a good thing, but
11:34:34 at the same time he would can't do it to the detriment
11:34:35 of our children.
11:34:37 And I have grave concerns about these towers being
11:34:42 approximate to the children.
11:34:44 With all that said, what I would like to do is request
11:34:47 staff to take a look at chapter 27-134.1, and I would
11:34:59 be glad to work with them a little bit, because he
11:35:02 would don't have any locational criteria in that
11:35:04 provision to keep these away from our schools, to keep
11:35:09 them away from our facilities, our ball field and from
11:35:14 the school's ball fields.
11:35:15 If the school board wants to put one of these towers
11:35:17 out in the middle of a field that's, you know, a
11:35:21 thousand feet away from anything, you know, that might
11:35:24 be one thing.
11:35:25 But our code allows these things to be in our city

11:35:30 parks, okay, it's right there.
11:35:33 It allows them to be within our city parks, as a
11:35:38 matter of right, so all they have to do is strike up a
11:35:41 deal with the administration, slide it through on our
11:35:43 consent agenda, you know, in a way without any public
11:35:46 hearings or concerns at all.
11:35:49 So I think when this was first adopted maybe folks
11:35:52 weren't as aware or concerned.
11:35:54 But I think we need to be more aware and more
11:35:57 concerned.
11:35:58 So I would like to give staff 60 days to look at this.
11:36:03 If you desire, I would be glad to work with them on
11:36:06 this and see what type of locational criteria we can
11:36:11 add.
11:36:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second the motion.
11:36:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The question is what is going to
11:36:16 happen with Coleman middle school at that time, if we
11:36:19 the school moves forward do we want to send a letter
11:36:23 or resolution opposing it?
11:36:25 What is our position?
11:36:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I would support a resolution
11:36:32 from this board, specifically related to that Coleman

11:36:35 tower.
11:36:36 I think it's completely an inappropriate place, as
11:36:38 related to the students and as related to our pool and
11:36:41 as related to the ballpark those over there.
11:36:43 The little league field that's over there, and the
11:36:45 track that's over there.
11:36:49 It's right in the middle of all of that.
11:36:50 So I think that's a great idea if we want to do that
11:36:53 as a separate motion.
11:36:56 But I think Mr. Fletcher is going to jump up and tell
11:36:59 thaws that issue probably is coming back to us for a
11:37:01 public hearing as well.
11:37:02 >>> Well, there's two points, I want to point out the
11:37:06 first of which, if the council believes that it
11:37:10 should, and we can figure out a way for you all to
11:37:12 have jurisdiction on this, we shouldn't be pre-judging
11:37:15 the issue now.
11:37:15 That's the first thing we need to make sure that we
11:37:18 don't do.
11:37:20 However, before we get to have that point even, and
11:37:24 councilman Dingfelder and I exchanged some e-mails on
11:37:27 this, cell tower siting has been understood federal

11:37:36 law, actually in the process right now since this
11:37:38 issue came up of seeing that our code complies with
11:37:41 those federal requirements, when it was adopted.
11:37:43 I know they went through analysis to make sure it did
11:37:46 comply.
11:37:46 But we are updating that to make sure.
11:37:49 So that's the primary threshold that we are going to
11:37:52 have to deal with, is what extent we even have
11:37:54 jurisdiction over this issue.
11:37:58 And that's the first step.
11:38:00 I think that we, assuming that our current code is
11:38:04 valid, and complies with the federal requirements,
11:38:08 then we have some opportunity to look at these
11:38:11 setbacks and these other requirements.
11:38:13 But if you would like to us look at that, from the
11:38:18 early motion, I suspect that you do, we can reexamine
11:38:21 where the bounds of our authority is, and go from
11:38:24 there.
11:38:26 I don't know whether the school board has initiated
11:38:28 any action at this point to move forward on this, or
11:38:31 if it requires actually the school board or individual
11:38:38 departments within the school administration can act

11:38:39 on this.
11:38:40 We haven't received any formal application.
11:38:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I can give you a little update as
11:38:45 of last night.
11:38:46 They had a public meeting was a very healthy
11:38:49 discussion, dialogue.
11:38:51 And I talked to Ms. Elliott from the superintendent of
11:38:56 schools and said what is your process?
11:38:57 Apparently they will make a decision specifically on
11:39:00 Coleman this week, whether or not they are going to
11:39:02 allow that vendor to move forward with the process and
11:39:07 then, if they move forward, then I guess it might come
11:39:11 to council for a variance.
11:39:19 Special use or what?
11:39:26 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: My understanding is we don't have
11:39:28 a specific action that approves these.
11:39:30 If it meets our standards they go forward.
11:39:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Historical schools.
11:39:39 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:39:41 There's two classifications under our code relating to
11:39:44 cell towers.
11:39:45 One is if you are in a certain zoning application you

11:39:47 do come forward to City Council for special use
11:39:51 permit, but we have special use criteria.
11:39:54 We have a separate authentication, of schools with
11:40:00 specific criteria of schools.
11:40:03 Once those criteria are met for those schools, and
11:40:06 there's setback criteria, and Ms. Coyle is more
11:40:10 familiar with that off the top of her head than I am,
11:40:13 the only action City Council would take would be to
11:40:15 have a map which is put in your code some time ago,
11:40:18 amended for the purposes of adding that site.
11:40:22 So it's a different process if you are on a public
11:40:24 facility site than it is if you are a general private
11:40:27 property --
11:40:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But don't meet those criteria.
11:40:31 This particular site is immediately adjacent to our
11:40:33 pool.
11:40:34 I have been told that our pool is zoned residential.
11:40:37 Okay.
11:40:38 And also a ball field or something else zoned
11:40:45 residential.
11:40:45 So if that's the case, then it doesn't meet this
11:40:48 criteria in paren 5.

11:40:52 >>> It sort of a bright-line test whether they meet
11:40:55 the test or not related to where the property line is
11:40:58 or something like that.
11:40:59 So our expectation is that they will evaluate our code
11:41:02 and comply with them.
11:41:04 If they don't comply with it, then we would have to
11:41:06 take some other action to ensure that they do comply
11:41:09 with it.
11:41:09 But in this instance, if I understood Julia correctly,
11:41:13 there isn't a process where they would be applying for
11:41:15 something.
11:41:16 We would be taking some type of enforcement action.
11:41:18 The other overlay on all of this is that it is a
11:41:21 school, in which case they are subject to our zoning
11:41:24 requirements, but there are certain building standards
11:41:26 and other things that they are not subject to that we
11:41:29 would have to evaluate as well and make sure that we
11:41:32 are enforcing a zoning standard and not a building
11:41:36 code standard.
11:41:37 >>MARY MULHERN: I decided not to go top that meeting,
11:41:42 even though all those parents were e-mailing me,
11:41:45 because I was hoping that the principal, who I

11:41:51 understand really gets to decide about this, I mean,
11:41:57 he may be under pressure from the school board one way
11:42:00 or the other, but I understood that it was from the
11:42:04 parents, all the e-mails I got from parents, that it
11:42:07 was a decision of the principal.
11:42:10 And I was really hoping that he would take care of
11:42:12 this for us, so that it wouldn't become -- and I don't
11:42:17 want to invite jurisdiction over things that we don't
11:42:19 have jurisdiction over.
11:42:23 I have my feelings about this from a policy
11:42:29 standpoint.
11:42:32 And I think it's a great idea to have legal look into
11:42:34 this and look into what our regulations are and where
11:42:38 we are.
11:42:38 But I personally don't want to invite ourselves into
11:42:41 this dispute when there's already the school board,
11:42:45 the school principal, all the parents, and I really
11:42:51 thought that it would come to us as a last resort if
11:42:55 they couldn't resolve it.
11:42:56 And I hope that they'll resolve it.
11:42:59 I do agree with you, Mr. Dingfelder, that we need to
11:43:02 look at this to see if it's going to be something that

11:43:05 will come to us, and if our code meets the federal FDC
11:43:11 rules, and also whether we are protecting our
11:43:15 neighborhoods as much as we can.
11:43:16 But I just hope that I want to encourage Mr. What's
11:43:22 his name, I can't remember the principal's name, and
11:43:24 the school board to deal with this and make the policy
11:43:29 decision.
11:43:30 My biggest -- I mean, there is great arguments on both
11:43:33 sides.
11:43:36 One of the arguments is there's no science to show
11:43:38 there's any danger from it.
11:43:39 And I haven't seen any of it.
11:43:42 I haven't seen convincing evidence either way.
11:43:45 But the other things is that I think this is a policy
11:43:50 decision that the school board needs to look into,
11:43:55 whether it's appropriate for them to find anyway to
11:43:59 make money by selling rights or whatever they can in
11:44:02 order to pay for public education.
11:44:04 And I'm ready to take a stand against that sort of
11:44:09 thing happening.
11:44:10 But, you know, I don't think that's really our place,
11:44:13 either.

11:44:16 But I don't want to have to make these decisions
11:44:18 unless it does belong in our courts.
11:44:20 So I don't want to invite it.
11:44:22 I would like to see them resolve it on their own.
11:44:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
11:44:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I agree with what others have said.
11:44:30 This is an item that's being discussed within a
11:44:33 family.
11:44:33 A family is the education system.
11:44:36 When you have good parents and great kids operating,
11:44:40 not only out of Coleman but out of the Dolphin school,
11:44:43 which is the Dale Mabry elementary, and I was thinking
11:44:50 when one of my colleagues said that the pool he was
11:44:55 told was residential and the ballparks are
11:44:57 residential.
11:44:57 I don't know if we are exempt from all the laws, but I
11:45:01 think we ought to realize after this is settled one
11:45:07 way or the other, and I agreed with what the city
11:45:09 attorney said, and that's hold back to make sure that
11:45:11 this is not coming before us, and make sure that we
11:45:13 are not pre-judging something like we do in all the
11:45:17 cases, treat them with the respect and same honor that

11:45:20 we are going to give everyone.
11:45:21 But if those two items, the pool and the ball field,
11:45:24 which is highly, highly used in that area, a lot of
11:45:27 young families there that have a lot of kids, but if
11:45:31 it is residential, I guess Ms. Coyle would be the one
11:45:35 to let us know in two weeks or so that we make some
11:45:39 type of arrangements after this is settled, I say, to
11:45:44 see if we put it back in proper place so these items
11:45:47 can be continued to support the neighborhood like they
11:45:49 are now.
11:45:50 Because as you well know, no matter how well intended
11:45:53 it happens, someone is always going to be
11:45:57 objectionable to something that's being used in an
11:45:59 improper zoning.
11:46:00 So I don't want that to happen to the neighborhood
11:46:02 either.
11:46:02 So I make that as a motion to Ms. Coyle.
11:46:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I'll second that.
11:46:11 I have a pending motion in regard -- and now Mr.
11:46:19 Fletcher clarified.
11:46:24 Sixty days, work with legal and staff, to address, and
11:46:29 I think the first question is, can we address some of

11:46:31 these locational criterias within, you know, this
11:46:37 provision of our code, and tighten them up a little
11:46:40 bit, so we are not facing -- we are not authorizing
11:46:44 the placement of these towers that close to schools,
11:46:47 that close to our athletic facilities, that close to
11:46:51 swimming pools, and ball field, things like that.
11:46:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
11:46:58 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:47:01 Opposed same sign.
11:47:04 We have another motion.
11:47:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Seconded by Mr. Dingfelder that
11:47:08 someone told someone those properties are residential,
11:47:10 that we have all the facilities using for the kids,
11:47:13 that swimming pool and ballparks.
11:47:20 What the zoning is there.
11:47:22 >>
11:47:23 (Motion carried).
11:47:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You want that coming back to your
11:47:27 next regular meeting?
11:47:32 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
11:47:34 Just so you know I looked it up yesterday actually.
11:47:36 The pool and the properties to the north are zones

11:47:39 RS-60 so they have a residential classification.
11:47:42 >> How do you have a city swimming pool on an RS-60?
11:47:48 >> Residential zoned property.
11:47:50 >> There's no violation of any law there?
11:47:53 >>> No.
11:47:55 >> Then I withdraw my motion.
11:47:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:47:59 Let me just say, Julia, you may remember this.
11:48:02 I know the county commission went through a series of
11:48:04 dealing with these cell towers years ago, and you may
11:48:08 want to look at what was the resolution?
11:48:11 Because those long discussion and discussion busy cell
11:48:17 towers, going back several years ago, how we address
11:48:20 those.
11:48:20 So you may want to take a look at that and bring back
11:48:24 some information to us relative to that.
11:48:26 That might help this process.
11:48:31 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to say one other thing.
11:48:33 I don't think this will prejudice anything.
11:48:35 But the reality is that these are lucrative, selling
11:48:41 the rights to the cell towers is lucrative.
11:48:45 So if they are going to be coming to us for some type

11:48:53 of approval, I think we have to remember that we are
11:48:56 competing with private sector.
11:48:58 So that we shouldn't be -- if indeed we decide that we
11:49:02 are going to continue, apparently we are already
11:49:05 selling cell phone rights, or cell tower rights, I
11:49:09 hope we are getting a good price for it.
11:49:12 My suspicion is they are going to the school board
11:49:14 because they figure they can get a really good deal on
11:49:17 it as opposed to going to a private sector, and would
11:49:24 charge them a lot more.
11:49:26 I hope the school board and the city and the county
11:49:28 are getting top dollar if they are selling the
11:49:32 public's right-of-way.
11:49:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:49:35 Any other new business?
11:49:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just had one other thing.
11:49:39 I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman.
11:49:40 While I was will go for cell towers, I actually came
11:49:44 across our provision on satellite dishes, which is
11:49:47 27-134, and I think this was written when satellite
11:49:51 dishes were big, six-eight foot things, actually when
11:49:55 I was 20-something years old I used to sell those

11:49:57 things but now satellite dishes are like this.
11:50:00 But our code hasn't been updated so now I make a
11:50:04 motion asking staff in our next cycle that you take a
11:50:08 look at 27-134 and we update it appropriately.
11:50:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
11:50:13 (Motion carried)
11:50:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Briefly, at this point four of our
11:50:21 City Council members serve on the MPO and were in
11:50:23 attendance yesterday which vastly was greater than the
11:50:26 number of county commissioners, I might add, who
11:50:28 showed up, and we had two great presentations.
11:50:32 One was on what New York is doing to make its streets
11:50:36 pedestrian and transit friendly, and I feel like I
11:50:40 shouldn't have to show it to the council members and
11:50:43 the MPO members but I would like to make it available
11:50:47 to other council members because it was really
11:50:48 exciting what they are up to.
11:50:50 And secondly, the 20-35 long range transportation plan
11:50:54 is being worked on, and because we are so interested
11:50:57 in making sure that Tampa provides variety of modes of
11:51:03 transportation.
11:51:03 When we get further along, I think it would be worth

11:51:06 sharing with all of council.
11:51:11 >>MARY MULHERN: I do have several things, and thanks
11:51:16 for waiting for me because I was getting up-to-date
11:51:19 information.
11:51:20 Number one, I want to remind everybody and encourage
11:51:23 everyone to go to Lights on Tampa, the opening is this
11:51:27 Saturday night.
11:51:29 And here it is.
11:51:32 Some of their many, many venues for this, they are all
11:51:35 downtown.
11:51:37 The main venues for the big lights-on projects are the
11:51:41 convention center, the Dick Greco transportation
11:51:43 center, which is by Channelside, the riverwalk, and
11:51:48 University of South Florida park, which I believe is
11:51:51 at Ashley and basically Platt, Brorein.
11:51:58 There's going to be displays at the Tampa Bay history
11:52:01 center, which I think is opening tonight or tomorrow,
11:52:04 something.
11:52:04 And a does smaller exhibits.
11:52:07 The last time we did this was two or throw years ago,
11:52:10 and we had -- there were hundreds of people, but I
11:52:14 think it was more than a thousand.

11:52:15 It was thousands of people downtown.
11:52:17 It was so wonderful.
11:52:19 And I also want to tell the downtown bars and
11:52:22 restaurants to stay open and get staff there, because
11:52:25 you couldn't even get a beer the last time they did
11:52:29 it.
11:52:29 And they need to stay open that day.
11:52:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's free.
11:52:35 >>MARY MULHERN: It's free.
11:52:36 And the one thing missing here, 5:30 p.m. it gets
11:52:40 underway.
11:52:41 Basically, I think the mayor flips the switch but I
11:52:44 think it happens at dark.
11:52:45 So be downtown before dark.
11:52:46 It should be really fun.
11:52:47 And take the opportunity to take the streetcar while
11:52:50 you are at it.
11:52:51 The other thing I wanted to mention is that our
11:52:57 president-elect, who will be sworn in January
11:52:59 20th.
11:53:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 12 noon.
11:53:04 >>MARY MULHERN: Has invited people all over the

11:53:06 country to participate in a national weekend of
11:53:10 service, January 17th through 19th.
11:53:13 So that's the weekend before the inauguration.
11:53:17 And if you are interested in getting involved in any
11:53:20 kind of service project, the web site is actually
11:53:40 You can plug in a zip code and find out honor is doing
11:53:43 projects.
11:53:43 And I have one particular project that has -- we are
11:53:48 just pulling together.
11:53:49 I just heard about this yesterday so I am going plug
11:53:51 the one that I have, because it's relating to the
11:53:56 community gardening which everyone knows is my big
11:53:59 push on ma I'm making right now.
11:54:01 Community stepping stones, which is a project of USF,
11:54:05 and the Sulphur Springs neighborhood, and their goal
11:54:08 is transformation of the Sulphur Springs community.
11:54:14 They are going to have a little garden planting the
11:54:19 17th, Saturday the 17th at 10 a.m., everyone
11:54:22 is invited.
11:54:23 Especially people who live in that neighborhood.
11:54:25 And they already have -- it going to be part of their

11:54:29 art house, which is a project of teaching neighborhood
11:54:32 kids art projects.
11:54:33 But the projects for that day, and recognizing
11:54:39 national services, plant nursery in Sulphur Springs.
11:54:42 So anyone who wants to show up, you can show up at 10
11:54:45 a.m.
11:54:46 It's on Mulberry drive.
11:54:48 1908 Mulberry drive.
11:54:50 If you want any information about any of these
11:54:53 community service projects, but especially this one,
11:54:55 you can call my office, and we'll give you links to
11:55:00 get there.
11:55:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is that it?
11:55:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I think so.
11:55:05 We did the budget.
11:55:07 Yes.
11:55:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:55:09 Then we are --
11:55:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to receive and file?
11:55:13 >> No, we are not at the end of the day yet.
11:55:14 We have to come back at 1:30.
11:55:16 We stand in recess till 1:30.

(Meeting in recess.)

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Tampa City Council
January 8, 2009
Afternoon session

The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.

13:36:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
13:36:47 order.
13:36:48 Roll call.
13:36:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:36:56 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
13:36:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
13:36:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
13:37:03 We have a couple of housecleaning issues that we need
13:37:05 to take care of.
13:37:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, thank you.
13:37:08 Those two appointments that council made earlier, I
13:37:10 prepared the original resolution that is ratified that

13:37:13 decision, if could you just move those two
13:37:14 resolutions.
13:37:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Move the resolutions.
13:37:19 >> Second.
13:37:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On the two resolutions pointing those
13:37:22 two persons from this morning.
13:37:23 (Motion carried)
13:37:26 Thank you.
13:37:27 We have item 66.
13:37:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Those are quasi-judicial items.
13:37:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 65, do we need to open?
13:37:41 It's already continued.
13:37:43 Need to continue to January 22nd.
13:37:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: There's a request to do that.
13:37:48 If you wish to take up that item you can do that now.
13:37:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have a motion to continue item 65.
13:37:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, please forgive me.
13:38:00 That is a continuance to January 22nd, 2009, 1:30 p.m.
13:38:05 Do you wish to inquire if anybody wishes to object to
13:38:07 that continuance is present?
13:38:10 >> Anyone who wants to address council on that item?
13:38:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Seeing none, sir.

13:38:15 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a question on the 29th.
13:38:18 Are we meeting at 1:30?
13:38:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did I say the 29th I'm sorry.
13:38:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You said the 22nd.
13:38:25 But you're right.
13:38:26 We do have a meeting at 1:30.
13:38:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just so the record is clear, January
13:38:33 22nd, 2009 at 1:30 p.m.
13:38:36 Thank you.
13:38:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
13:38:40 Opposes?
13:38:41 All right.
13:38:41 Item 66.
13:38:42 Anyone that's going to be addressing council, please
13:38:45 stand to be sworn at this time.
13:38:47 If you will be addressing council today, please stand,
13:38:49 raise your right hand.
13:38:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Would that also include item 68 and
13:38:53 69?
13:38:55 >> 66, 67, 68.
13:38:59 (Oath administered by Clerk).
13:39:08 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.

13:39:14 C 08-13 is for vacation of O'Brien street, which is in
13:39:18 the Westshore overlay district, and I have a map on
13:39:21 the overhead, if you want to show that on the screen.
13:39:25 And I can give you more specific locations.
13:39:31 Westshore mall is over here just for general purposes
13:39:36 of reference.
13:39:37 O'Brien street is the portion being vacated and the
13:39:40 petitioner is in red, and this is -- they are
13:39:44 requesting a vacated portion lying north of Kennedy to
13:39:46 a dead-end which is the interstate.
13:39:48 And then between Sherill and Huber.
13:39:57 We have some photos.
13:39:58 The first photo is O'Brien street looking north from
13:40:00 Kennedy Boulevard.
13:40:07 The next photo is mid block looking north toward the
13:40:11 dead-end.
13:40:23 This is looking south toward Kennedy Boulevard.
13:40:25 The next photo, this is the continuation of O'Brien
13:40:28 south of Kennedy.
13:40:28 This is not being vacated.
13:40:32 And this photo is the petitioner's property.
13:40:35 This is the west side of O'Brien.

13:40:41 Another shot of this same area.
13:40:44 This is a picture of petitioner's property northwest
13:40:46 from O'Brien street toward the dead-end.
13:40:50 And this is the only other adjacent property owner on
13:40:52 the east side.
13:40:54 This is the northeast corner of O'Brien and Kennedy.
13:40:58 And this is a shot.
13:40:59 They do have an access off O'Brien on the east side.
13:41:03 And that's a shot of that.
13:41:07 I have also -- I didn't have time to put this in the
13:41:10 report.
13:41:11 I have a copy of a letter from the adjacent owner on
13:41:13 the east saying that they are in favor of the
13:41:17 vacating.
13:41:18 So I want to enter that into the record.
13:41:27 Staff has no objection to this request.
13:41:31 We are requesting easement for solid waste,
13:41:35 stormwater, water, and wastewater.
13:41:37 Transportation has requested that the petitioner and
13:41:41 the adjacent owner enter into a public -- I mean a
13:41:44 private ingress-egress access easement if this is
13:41:49 approved because they both a access points onto

13:41:53 O'Brien and what we decided to do was to address that
13:41:55 issue with a temporary public access easement that
13:41:58 would be terminated once they get their private access
13:42:01 easement taken care of.
13:42:05 Fire has requested that if there's any change in
13:42:09 access over O'Brien that FDOT has asked that be
13:42:18 reduced by 30 feet on the north future interstate
13:42:22 expansion, and we reduced the legal so that's already
13:42:25 taken care of.
13:42:27 Any questions?
13:42:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions by council?
13:42:32 Okay.
13:42:33 It's a public hearing.
13:42:34 Anyone wish to address council on vacating?
13:42:37 Public hearing.
13:42:40 >>> Kathryn O'donnell, Holland and Knight.
13:42:45 I think Barbara did a really good job explaining this
13:42:49 and fantastic job coordinating this.
13:42:52 I think O Brian street has been used for access by the
13:42:57 two property owners and there will be cross agreement
13:43:02 as part of this vacating.
13:43:08 If there are any other questions.

13:43:09 Thank you.
13:43:10 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry, I have a question.
13:43:14 So the only two property owners, the east of all of
13:43:22 the property to the east adjacent to the street owned
13:43:27 by the center?
13:43:31 It all one property?
13:43:32 >>> That's correct.
13:43:33 >>MARY MULHERN: So this, O'Brien street, is a
13:43:35 dead-end, and there's no other parties that need
13:43:38 access?
13:43:40 >>> Yes, that's correct.
13:43:41 >>MARY MULHERN: So say that it's vacated and one or
13:43:50 more of these properties are sold.
13:43:52 What happens?
13:43:54 Does the vacation go with both parties?
13:43:58 >>> Yes.
13:43:59 Are you also referring to the cross access agreement
13:44:01 that will be executed, that that will inure to the
13:44:05 benefit of anyone who owns the property in the future.
13:44:08 >> So say the bridge point center split that up or
13:44:13 whatever, then anyone adjacent would have access to
13:44:18 the road?

13:44:19 >>> That's correct.
13:44:19 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
13:44:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
13:44:26 No one from the public wishes to address council.
13:44:29 Motion to close.
13:44:29 >> So moved.
13:44:30 >> Second.
13:44:32 (Motion carried).
13:44:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance for first
13:44:37 reading, an ordinance vacating, closing,
13:44:41 discontinuing, and abandoning a certain
13:44:44 right-of-way -- a portion of O'Brien street lying
13:44:51 north of Kennedy Boulevard, south of interstate 275,
13:44:54 east of Hoover Boulevard, and west of Sherill street
13:44:58 in Tampa, in Tampania subdivision, a subdivision
13:45:02 located in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County,
13:45:03 Florida, the same being more fully described in
13:45:06 section 2 hereof, providing an effective date.
13:45:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
13:45:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
13:45:13 (Motion carried).
13:45:16 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and

13:45:17 Caetano being absent at vote.
13:45:20 Second reading of the ordinance will be held January
13:45:22 22nd at 9:30 a.m.
13:45:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 67.
13:45:30 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
13:45:35 If you recall, this case came before you a couple of
13:45:38 weeks ago, it's the Wingate hotel at the corner of
13:45:41 McKinley and Fowler and there was an objection from
13:45:44 the solid waste department regarding the dumpster that
13:45:48 was either on or off the location.
13:45:49 We did go back and negotiated that issue and we did
13:45:52 receive a in a objection, a finding of consistency
13:45:54 from the solid waste department, and the proper notes
13:45:57 have been placed on the plan, so there are no more
13:45:59 objections from staff.
13:46:00 I just wanted to relay that to you.
13:46:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the item has been resolved, that
13:46:04 issue has been resolved.
13:46:05 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Correct.
13:46:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is a public hearing.
13:46:09 Anyone wish to address council?
13:46:10 Public hearing.

13:46:11 Anyone wish to address council?
13:46:14 Council, do you all have any questions?
13:46:25 You don't have to present anything unless you just
13:46:28 want to talk.
13:46:28 Do you want to talk?
13:46:30 Well, come on down.
13:46:31 I was trying to move it along.
13:46:33 I thought you wanted approval.
13:46:37 Go ahead.
13:46:38 >> After you talk, you may not get approval.
13:46:41 >> We'll go from there.
13:46:44 >> My name is Lisa, agent and daughter-in-law, owner
13:46:52 of the Wingate in Tampa.
13:46:55 To show you where the property is.
13:46:58 First off, our entire family, a daughter, she prepared
13:47:07 this petition, not me, and we would like to thank the
13:47:10 following for their unbelievable efforts and diligence
13:47:12 during the holiday even to help us get to this stage,
13:47:15 present this to you, the council.
13:47:18 Quickly, Brickhouse, Ginster, Abbye Feeley, all of the
13:47:25 land development, rezoning agents and especially Cathy
13:47:28 Coyle and Barbara LePore.

13:47:30 The councilmen and women, I stand before you.
13:47:34 You didn't have to hear me last month, and you did,
13:47:36 and I certainly appreciate it.
13:47:38 Giving us this opportunity today in order to help us
13:47:42 possibly get our liquor license by Super Bowl 2009 so
13:47:46 thank you very much.
13:47:49 To start, I would like to give a brief history of who
13:47:52 we are, so you know who you helped so much.
13:47:54 My father-in-law -- oh, I'm sorry.
13:48:04 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I think the problem
13:48:07 was something about the dumpsters.
13:48:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's resolved.
13:48:13 We have done all of that.
13:48:19 >>> I would like to be approved.
13:48:21 [ Laughter ]
13:48:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
13:48:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you want to ask if there is
13:48:31 anybody in the audience.
13:48:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I did that twice.
13:48:33 For the third time does anybody want to come forward
13:48:35 and object?
13:48:41 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

13:48:46 It's a new year.
13:48:50 Do you want to read that?
13:48:51 >>GWEN MILLER: An ordinance approving a special use
13:48:57 permit S-2 alcoholic beverage sales, small venue and
13:49:01 making lawful sale of beverages containing alcohol
13:49:03 more than 1% by weight and not more than 14% by weight
13:49:07 and wines regardless of alcoholic content, beer and
13:49:09 wine, 2(COP-X), for consumption on premises only at or
13:49:13 from that certain lot, plot or tract of land located
13:49:17 at 3751 east Fowler Avenue, Tampa, Florida, as more
13:49:20 particularly described in section 2 hereof, approving
13:49:23 waivers as set forth herein, waiving certain
13:49:26 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
13:49:28 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
13:49:31 conflict, providing an effective date.
13:49:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second.
13:49:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
13:49:39 Opposes?
13:49:40 Thank you.
13:49:41 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
13:49:42 Second reading of the ordinance will be held January
13:49:45 22nd at 9:30 a.m.

13:49:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
13:49:51 Item 68 is a continued appeal hearing.
13:49:54 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
13:49:57 The case has already been presented.
13:49:58 I believe you directed the petitioner to go back and
13:50:01 discuss things with the neighborhood, and the
13:50:03 neighbors to work on a resolution.
13:50:04 I did want to present for the record a letter we
13:50:07 received December 29th from Palma Ceia west
13:50:12 neighborhood association.
13:50:13 The case to our office.
13:50:15 I don't believe council is actually copied on it or
13:50:18 city clerk so I'll make a copy for the record.
13:50:20 They did find no waiver of approval should be allowed
13:50:22 for this type of business.
13:50:24 That was the basic finding in the record.
13:51:03 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: My address is suite 3700 Bank of
13:51:07 America Plaza.
13:51:09 And I have the pleasure this afternoon of representing
13:51:13 Igor and Olena Lytvyn.
13:51:28 Enrolled with the swim club of Atlanta.
13:51:30 And Igor will talk with you also.

13:51:33 There was a question from the transportation
13:51:35 department as to their position on the file.
13:51:39 We are required to pave the driveway that has been
13:51:42 added to the site plan.
13:51:44 We agreed to pay the driveway.
13:51:46 I have a photograph showing the location of the
13:51:48 driveway and where the pavement will be provided.
13:51:50 And they have withdrawn any objection to the
13:51:52 application.
13:51:53 Melanie Calloway is here this afternoon.
13:51:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think the only issue was the talking
13:51:58 issues, as I recall, the only issue.
13:52:01 So I understand that's been resolved?
13:52:05 >>> Ms. Calloway is here to speak to that issue.
13:52:09 She's probably the best person to speak to that.
13:52:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me just clarify that.
13:52:13 (off microphone)
13:52:16 I think the question when we were finishing up was,
13:52:19 was there a possibility of being able to park on that
13:52:21 side, on that side street, whichever the side of the
13:52:25 house is, San Miguel?
13:52:28 >>> San Miguel.

13:52:30 >> Was there a possibility to use city right of way
13:52:33 because there's apparently a lot of city right of way,
13:52:36 and to park between or among those trees.
13:52:38 And that's something I wanted to hear back from you
13:52:42 and from transportation.
13:52:47 >>> I brought some photographs to illustrate that.
13:52:55 Let me focus first on the site plan.
13:52:57 Here is San Miguel.
13:53:00 Here is the property line.
13:53:03 There's about 18.5 feet between the property line and
13:53:07 the edge of the pavement.
13:53:10 I took these photographs yesterday morning.
13:53:12 And this is the same perspective, looking west toward
13:53:15 Henderson Boulevard.
13:53:17 And you will see chain link fence, which is
13:53:21 approximately where the property line is.
13:53:23 You see about 18 feet that goes to the edge of
13:53:26 pavement.
13:53:26 So the children coming to school would be dropped off
13:53:29 in this grassy area.
13:53:30 And they would be picked up in that area, also.
13:53:34 Here is a perspective.

13:53:36 I am looking where the pool will be built.
13:53:38 And you will see the chain link fence.
13:53:41 That tree you are looking at is the same tree in this
13:53:43 photograph.
13:53:45 Here's the tree, to give you some perspective.
13:53:49 The pool will be built there. The children will be
13:53:51 admitted to the pool through the gate.
13:53:53 And they will leave through the gate.
13:53:55 The parents will then pick them up in the grassy area.
13:54:00 Just down the street is a nursery school that
13:54:02 basically has the same type of operation.
13:54:08 I would like to talk about the reason the application
13:54:10 is before you, is the sole issue of waiver of the
13:54:17 square footage.
13:54:18 Under the code, the home occupation cannot exceed 25%
13:54:25 of the square footage of the house.
13:54:28 The house is 2200 square feet and some change.
13:54:34 25% in this calculation is 554 square feet.
13:54:39 The pool area is 1,080 square feet.
13:54:43 So the Lytvyns are asking to allow them a variance of
13:54:48 526 square feet for a home occupation to accommodate
13:54:53 the school.

13:54:54 That is the soul reason for the application.
13:54:58 Ms. Calloway has no objection and we have shown you
13:55:01 how the parking arrangement will work on the project.
13:55:04 We ask for your approval this afternoon, and if you
13:55:07 have any further questions, I will be available to
13:55:09 answer them.
13:55:10 One other thing.
13:55:11 Let me ask one other thing.
13:55:13 Their driveway on court which is around the corner --
13:55:19 excuse me for a moment.
13:55:31 Here's the driveway that needs to be paved.
13:55:33 This accommodates three cars so you have the Lytvyns
13:55:36 automobile if per chance they need to park, they can
13:55:40 be accommodated in the driveway but generally it will
13:55:42 be a drop-off and pickup operation along San Miguel.
13:55:47 And now to miss Jean's in New Suburb Beautiful which
13:55:56 operated for many years if you are familiar with her
13:55:58 operation.
13:55:58 I'll reserve the rest of my time for rebuttal if
13:56:01 necessary.
13:56:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm good for now.
13:56:06 I want to hear from transportation.

13:56:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I wanted to ask petitioner if he
13:56:13 has a site plan that's going to show us the pool, a
13:56:19 wall, is there going to be a sidewalk, where is the
13:56:23 parking going to be?
13:56:26 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Yes.
13:56:27 Excuse me for a moment.
13:56:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And the other question which
13:56:34 somebody had written me an e-mail about is drainage.
13:56:37 When you create a pool, I know that our permitting
13:56:43 department counts it as just permeable surface but I
13:56:49 think usually pools have hardscape around them, and
13:56:52 this appears to be a pretty low area.
13:56:55 There don't appear to be curbs or stormwater.
13:56:59 How are you all going address that?
13:57:02 >>> Well, I don't know the answer to that, but my best
13:57:06 guess is the pool would have to be permitted under
13:57:08 chapter 5.
13:57:09 And the building department would regulate where the
13:57:14 finished deck of the pool is going to be, and it's
13:57:17 going to have to be at a level that it will not
13:57:20 overflow.
13:57:22 I frankly don't know the answer to that, Ms.

13:57:24 Saul-Sena.
13:57:25 It's a permitting issue that certainly is enforced
13:57:28 under chapter 5.
13:57:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do you have a site plan?
13:57:33 >>> Yes.
13:57:33 The site plan, Igor and Olena filed the application
13:57:38 using their survey, and they had the surveyor put in
13:57:42 the location of the pool.
13:57:45 I have enlarged the survey, and I put in blue,
13:57:48 obviously, the location of where the pool will be.
13:57:53 The city staff has taken that survey with these pool
13:58:01 interposed and you will see the number and the LDC
13:58:04 staff initials.
13:58:06 Here is the, quote, site plan condition that the apron
13:58:09 will be paved to transportation standards.
13:58:13 There's no requirement that the parking spaces on San
13:58:17 Miguel be paved.
13:58:18 They can Romaine as they are.
13:58:22 As if a visitor were coming to your home and you lived
13:58:25 in this home, your visitor could park in the driveway
13:58:27 or could park in the right-of-way on 6th and
13:58:30 4th or park on that grassy area and San Miguel.

13:58:35 >> Will there be any bollards to protect the trees?
13:58:39 >> I think we could do that.
13:58:42 Again, I wasn't prepared for that exactly, but I think
13:58:45 we can put some bollards in to protect the oak trees
13:58:49 that are located there.
13:58:50 Let me show them to you.
13:58:52 There's a sabal palm, and a grand oak there.
13:59:01 Probably protected oak.
13:59:04 That's certainly reasonable.
13:59:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: There's no other parking spaces
13:59:09 created, just the driveway?
13:59:10 >>> Just the driveway, and the driveway can
13:59:13 accommodate three parking spaces on the pavement.
13:59:15 >> But usually people who live at home have several
13:59:23 cars.
13:59:24 >>> Well, it seems to be a problem sometimes.
13:59:27 Again, I took the city's site plan and I marked one,
13:59:30 two, three cars, and there's some space here on the
13:59:34 grass that you could also accommodate some cars as
13:59:37 well.
13:59:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
13:59:41 >>> If you have any other questions, I prefer to defer

13:59:46 to Ms. Calloway on those transportation questions.
13:59:48 >>MARY MULHERN: A couple questions.
13:59:53 Are you done, Linda?
13:59:54 I know you told us that first, before we continued
13:59:58 this, there would be four students at once for lessons
14:00:06 scheduled.
14:00:06 How often are those classes scheduled?
14:00:10 >> The code says in this application, you can have no
14:00:15 more than five pupils at any one time, and the hours
14:00:19 will be no Friday, Saturday or Sunday.
14:00:24 You will have younger children in the morning, and
14:00:26 older children in the afternoon.
14:00:29 >> And how long do the classes -- I know that we heard
14:00:32 this the last time and I just can't find in the my
14:00:35 note.
14:00:35 >> The sessions are about 25 to 40 minutes per
14:00:38 session.
14:00:43 >>MARY MULHERN: I did have some questions of staff.
14:00:50 Is the only waiver they need to have a home business
14:01:02 the 500 square foot waiver?
14:01:05 Are there any other definitions in our code that
14:01:08 describe what a home business is?

14:01:11 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:01:13 I'm glad you asked that question, actually.
14:01:14 I wanted to put this back in perspective for you.
14:01:18 If you refer to your staff report itself, there is one
14:01:20 waiver, and that is for this home occupation to occur
14:01:26 outside of the main dwelling unit, in the pool, which
14:01:28 is considered an accessory structure.
14:01:31 Yes, it is larger than the 25%.
14:01:33 But the first thing that you really need to consider
14:01:35 is whether or not they can operate their home
14:01:37 occupation outside of the main structure.
14:01:40 The code very clearly says that operate no more than
14:01:44 25% of the floor area but within the main dwelling
14:01:47 unit.
14:01:47 That's tissue that you are actually looking at today.
14:01:50 Not necessarily the parking or any other issue.
14:01:52 Quite frankly under 27-242 which are the parking
14:01:55 regulations that specify the ratios for parking, there
14:01:58 is no additional parking for home occupations bus
14:02:02 these are residences so the question before is you
14:02:05 really is whether or not they are permitted under the
14:02:07 general standards.

14:02:08 You review the general standards and the code criteria
14:02:10 for this particular special use to operate the home
14:02:14 occupation outside their main dwelling unit.
14:02:16 That's really what you are considering.
14:02:17 >> Thanks.
14:02:18 And then I have a question.
14:02:19 I think maybe this is for Melanie, to do with traffic
14:02:23 impact.
14:02:26 If they only have three parking spaces, but they are
14:02:29 going to have five students at a time, and then once
14:02:39 their class is over, believe me, I have done pickups,
14:02:41 drop-offs and all that, we could potentially have ten
14:02:47 cars needing to drop off or pick up kids, between
14:02:51 classes, and that could be, I don't know, more than
14:02:55 ten times a day, it sounds like.
14:02:57 So I don't see how you can say there wouldn't be a
14:03:01 parking problem, or an increase in traffic.
14:03:04 And then -- if you can answer then, then I have
14:03:07 another question.
14:03:10 >> They are only required to have two spaces in order
14:03:13 to maintain the home occupation use.
14:03:17 But if residents in the neighborhood do have an issue

14:03:21 with you drop-off and pickup they are allowed to put a
14:03:26 5-minute parking sign.
14:03:33 >> They can put that in front of their own home?
14:03:35 >> Yes.
14:03:36 On the property line.
14:03:37 And if anyone is blocking their driveway or within ten
14:03:41 feet of their driveway, they are allowed to make that
14:03:46 sign and only park there for five minutes.
14:03:47 >> Then I have another question because I am reading
14:03:50 through these e-mails from the neighborhood.
14:03:52 And a couple of them said that there used to be
14:03:55 no-parking signs there.
14:03:56 And I would like to know what the history of that is.
14:03:59 Were there no-parking signs there?
14:04:01 If they were removed, and where?
14:04:04 >> We are not aware of any no-parking signs on San
14:04:08 Miguel.
14:04:08 >> So on Thixton court, there aren't?
14:04:16 >> That's where their driveway is.
14:04:20 >> They are talking about San Miguel between Thixton
14:04:24 and Henderson around the corner.
14:04:27 Did there used to be no-parking signs on San Miguel?

14:04:33 >>> No parking signs.
14:04:35 >> The people --
14:04:37 Ma'am, no.
14:04:38 [Sounding gavel]
14:04:38 You can't do that, ma'am.
14:04:40 >>MARY MULHERN: We will hear from the public on that.
14:04:45 But I wanted to hear, do you have anything different?
14:04:48 No.
14:04:49 Well, we can hear about that from the public.
14:04:53 The other question I have, and I don't know who this
14:04:56 is for.
14:04:57 I think it might be for Mr. Grandoff.
14:05:01 My kids never went to miss Jeans but a lot of my
14:05:04 friend's kids went there.
14:05:07 But my kids did take swimming lessons, and I would
14:05:10 never have dropped them off at a pool and left them
14:05:13 there.
14:05:14 So we are being asked to think that all of these
14:05:18 parents are going to drop their kids off for swimming
14:05:20 lessons and not have to park.
14:05:22 How can we be expected to think that?
14:05:26 Top me that's counterintuitive as a parent.

14:05:29 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Let me answer the question a couple
14:05:34 ways.
14:05:34 This is how the code is written and it contemplates
14:05:36 that the home occupation is going to be conducted on
14:05:38 the premises, and the restriction, I would like to
14:05:43 read to you, that it be limited to five pupils at one
14:05:48 time.
14:05:49 And then in another section of code also says, no
14:05:53 traffic shall be generated by such home occupation in
14:05:58 greater volume than would normally be expected in a
14:06:01 neighborhood.
14:06:02 That's one of the findings you have to come through in
14:06:06 this analysis.
14:06:08 It seems to me that if the variance criteria limits
14:06:11 you to five students, five pupils at any one time, and
14:06:17 you have met the standard of not increasing the volume
14:06:21 of traffic in the neighborhood.
14:06:23 For instance, if I came to you this afternoon and I
14:06:25 said, you know, we need to have ten per session.
14:06:33 I think would you be exceeding the normal volume in
14:06:36 the neighborhood.
14:06:37 And you would be, I believe, within your legal right

14:06:40 to deny the application.
14:06:41 But I think when you are limiting yourself to five,
14:06:43 that presumes that you are not generating too much
14:06:46 traffic.
14:06:46 >> But you only have three parking spots and you have
14:06:49 people coming and going.
14:06:50 So how does that -- you either have to have, in my
14:06:54 math, maybe Charlie can could the math for me, but if
14:06:58 you have three parking spaces, and you have ten cars,
14:07:03 picking up and dropping off, you are either going to
14:07:05 have a lot of traffic every, you know, half hour to 45
14:07:10 minutes or you are going to have people parking on the
14:07:13 streets because there's nowhere else to park.
14:07:15 Plus the fact that you park three cars in the
14:07:17 driveway, everybody is going to be moving, jockeying
14:07:20 around to get in and out.
14:07:23 >>> I understand.
14:07:24 I think that falls upon the Lytvyns to make sure the
14:07:30 children are picked up promptly and dropped off
14:07:33 promptly.
14:07:35 That is how the operation that miss Jean's operated I
14:07:38 think when it was on Georgia Avenue.

14:07:40 I forgot which street it was.
14:07:42 But that's how you did it.
14:07:43 The children were dropped off and quickly picked up.
14:07:48 Olena wanted me to mention there would be about a 15
14:07:54 or 20 minute interval so it's not going to be one
14:07:57 stacked up on the other.
14:07:58 >> It's not easy getting those kids in and out.
14:08:01 >> Let me mention some of the other restriction that
14:08:03 is would apply on the application, besides the five
14:08:06 pupils at any one time, no persons other than
14:08:10 immediate family shall be involved.
14:08:11 So that would be Olena and Igor handling this.
14:08:16 You know about the 25% issue.
14:08:18 There shall be no change of the outside appearance of
14:08:21 the home other than you may have a name plate but it
14:08:26 shall not be illuminated.
14:08:29 They are not even going to have a name plate on the
14:08:31 home.
14:08:31 The one Cathy mentioned, it shall not be in an
14:08:35 accessory building.
14:08:36 There's not an accessory building involved.
14:08:38 It's going to be an actual pool structure.

14:08:40 No mechanical equipment shall be used for storage on
14:08:42 the premises.
14:08:43 You are not going to have a storage building outside
14:08:45 as an adjunct to the pool.
14:08:47 No commodities shall be sold or warehoused on the
14:08:50 premises.
14:08:52 I mentioned to you the traffic issue.
14:08:54 And they have to have appropriate state permits to
14:08:57 operate.
14:09:05 Let me look at my notes for a moment.
14:09:11 I would like to show you one other photograph.
14:09:18 So you have a perspective of the amount of yard
14:09:22 available.
14:09:22 This is looking south west at Thixton and San Miguel.
14:09:28 And that's all I have to offer this afternoon.
14:09:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, thank you.
14:09:37 We will now take public testimony.
14:09:39 Those who wish to address council may come forward at
14:09:41 this time.
14:09:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I never really heard back from
14:09:48 staff about the San Miguel question.
14:09:54 In other words, how does transportation feel?

14:09:58 What do our rules say?
14:10:03 What do our rules say about the use of this sort of in
14:10:06 and out on the city right-of-way, on that corner of
14:10:09 San Miguel.
14:10:11 And Ms. Saul-Sena suggested bollards to protect that
14:10:16 oak tree which is fine and good but before we get to
14:10:19 bollards, what is transportation position on the use
14:10:22 of that San Miguel in and out there?
14:10:25 >>> Lenroy Martin, Transportation standpoint, they are
14:10:28 allowed to park on San Miguel, and it's public
14:10:32 right-of-way.
14:10:32 We have no restrictions that would stop them from
14:10:35 doing that.
14:10:37 So San Miguel, they are allowed to park there, and
14:10:41 utilize it for when the drop-off or pickup is.
14:10:45 >> And how about the corner?
14:10:50 How close to the corner could they legally park?
14:10:53 >>> Legally, they are supposed to be at least 25 feet
14:10:57 away from the corner.
14:10:58 >> I don't have that drawing.
14:11:03 I wonder how far is the oak tree before you get to the
14:11:07 corner?

14:11:08 >>> I'm not sure.
14:11:18 >> I'm just wondering how much space because we are
14:11:22 going to need to create a little buffer space for the
14:11:25 oak tree if we were to do that.
14:11:28 And the other question I have is to the west of the
14:11:34 palm tree, is there space back there, too?
14:11:50 >> From the oak tree it's about 70 feet from the
14:11:51 corner.
14:11:51 >> How big is the whole lot?
14:11:58 >> It's around 139 feet.
14:12:01 >> All right, thank you.
14:12:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I have been advised by our attorney
14:12:07 that because this is a continued public hearing, if
14:12:10 you spoke last time, you are not allowed to speak
14:12:13 today, because it's first reading and continued public
14:12:19 hearing.
14:12:21 State that on the record, please.
14:12:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, that's council's policy with
14:12:24 regard to taking testimony on continued public
14:12:26 hearings.
14:12:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So if you have not addressed council
14:12:30 you may come forward at this time and speak.

14:12:32 If you have not addressed council, if you did not come
14:12:35 last hearing.
14:12:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we could waive that rule
14:12:40 because petitioner had plenty of time.
14:12:42 Let's just waive that rule for now.
14:12:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
14:12:55 All in favor?
14:12:57 Opposes?
14:12:58 That means anybody can come speak.
14:13:01 You have three minutes.
14:13:07 >>> Carl smart.
14:13:08 I'm representing Palma Ceia west neighborhood
14:13:10 association.
14:13:10 And just representing the interests.
14:13:15 The main thing that was written into by our president
14:13:19 was about the variance for home occupation versus
14:13:23 outside the 25% rule.
14:13:25 That's all been discussed.
14:13:26 But another point of the concerns are the safety of
14:13:28 the children, and the daycare across the street.
14:13:31 There were no parking signs right there on San Miguel
14:13:34 there. Were not supposed to be any parking from

14:13:37 Henderson to Lois on San Miguel because of the
14:13:40 concerns of the children.
14:13:41 Now those signs are mysteriously missing but the
14:13:44 concerns are that you have kids coming and going to
14:13:46 that daycare, and if you have cars that are there,
14:13:48 then they are going to be running in and out between
14:13:51 those cars and nobody is going to be able to see them.
14:13:53 There's a lot of traffic from Henderson and also from
14:13:56 Lois.
14:13:56 So if you allow parking where there should be no
14:13:59 parking, there was indeed no-parking signs there and
14:14:03 now they are gone for some unknown reason, now you are
14:14:06 going to put the kids in jeopardy.
14:14:07 So that's the first point.
14:14:09 A couple other points, also, it violates the home
14:14:12 occupation.
14:14:16 I believe there's ten visitors a day so after three
14:14:19 classes of four, five kids, you have exceeded the
14:14:21 number of visitors per day there as well.
14:14:24 So you are kind of going against that home occupation
14:14:27 as well as far as the parking and visitors and such.
14:14:30 Lastly it's not really supported by any of the

14:14:33 neighbors.
14:14:33 I wish Igor and Olena great success.
14:14:41 They are probably great teachers but it's about the
14:14:43 safety of the children, the rules, the codes, and
14:14:47 lastly it's not supported by the neighbors.
14:14:49 None of the neighbors that I'm aware of that have come
14:14:55 to the association meetings or spoken out said that
14:14:57 they want this.
14:14:59 On the Palma Ceia neighborhood west association
14:15:01 behalf, that's the case why this shouldn't be
14:15:04 permitted.
14:15:05 Thank you very much.
14:15:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
14:15:15 >>> My name is Liz.
14:15:20 I believe everyone got the package from me with
14:15:23 information in it, and photos.
14:15:28 Back in April 2009, I was on the board, and we had,
14:15:39 Mr. Lamont had at the time the person from the mayor's
14:15:44 office, and other people, major Bennett.
14:15:52 He was out at the site, because we have had a lot of
14:15:56 problems on Lois and San Miguel.
14:16:01 One of the major concerns at the time was the two

14:16:03 daycare centers on San Miguel.
14:16:07 The children were crossing the street without stopping
14:16:12 in between vehicles that were parked on the east
14:16:21 San Miguel is used as a way in and way out.
14:16:29 (microphone not on)
14:16:31 Mr. Lamont could not find a way to change that route.
14:16:36 While he was there, he saw garbage trucks come in, and
14:16:43 he saw children trying to get through.
14:16:51 Any decision that day along with major Bennett, said
14:17:03 the street was a danger for the children at the
14:17:06 daycare, and for people trying to get out of Thixton
14:17:13 court.
14:17:13 As their suggestion he asked all of us that were in
14:17:16 attendance on that day if it would be all right to put
14:17:19 up no-parking from the intersection of San Miguel and
14:17:25 south Lois, all the way down to the intersection of
14:17:30 Henderson and San Miguel.
14:17:34 The signs went up along with stop signs that were put
14:17:37 in there at Lois and San Miguel at that time.
14:17:47 All of a sudden, two signs have disappeared.
14:17:52 And it's very interesting that these two signs just
14:17:54 happened to be in the location of where the

14:17:58 petitioners want to park.
14:18:06 You are putting back a problem again, because you have
14:18:09 the semis trying to come in off of Henderson and
14:18:14 make that turn and go out through there.
14:18:16 You are going to have parents trying to park there.
14:18:21 And when citrus Park Bank was built, one of the big
14:18:25 things was parking.
14:18:27 And they were told they could not have any exit or
14:18:31 entrance out onto San Miguel at that time.
14:18:35 So a fence was put up, and the signs went up.
14:18:40 Now, if you are going to allow them to park there,
14:18:42 that's creating another problem again, because we have
14:18:46 seen children that have almost been hit from the
14:18:50 daycare.
14:18:51 It was a major problem.
14:18:57 (Bell sounds).
14:18:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
14:19:00 I received your e-mail and it was very thoughtful of
14:19:04 you to write.
14:19:05 It was a detailed and lengthy but I read it all.
14:19:08 What concerns me very, very much is you are telling
14:19:11 me, or you are telling all of us that kids from the

14:19:14 daycare are running around the street outside?
14:19:18 >>> When the parents come pick up the children, they
14:19:20 will come out of the gate here.
14:19:23 And at the time parents were parking across the
14:19:26 street, because there was not enough parking.
14:19:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
14:19:30 >>> So they were parking on the other side of the
14:19:32 street, and they would come in with SUVs, the
14:19:36 parents would come out, the kids would run across San
14:19:38 Miguel.
14:19:39 >> And the parents -- I hate top say it to these
14:19:44 parents, but they stay in the car and the kids have to
14:19:47 cross the street by themselves?
14:19:49 >>> They were running across and the parents were
14:19:52 yelling at them to stop.
14:19:57 You have to realize these are little kids.
14:19:58 >> I understand that.
14:19:59 And the parents are old enough to understand that's a
14:20:01 danger.
14:20:02 >>> Yes.
14:20:03 And Mr. Lamont saw that and he was very upset with his
14:20:07 parents.

14:20:07 But he also saw when the semi came through that day,
14:20:11 it was another problem.
14:20:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
14:20:21 >>> BOB BUCKHORN: Mr. Chairman, colleagues, madam
14:20:30 clerk I need to be sworn in.
14:20:33 (Oath administered by Clerk).
14:20:35 >> I do.
14:20:35 Thank you.
14:20:38 Council members, I'll be brief.
14:20:39 I made some comments and put them on the record the
14:20:41 last time.
14:20:42 I am not here as a paid advocate but merely as a
14:20:45 parent of an 18 month old -- or three-year-old and
14:20:49 seven year old who swim at the star swim club.
14:20:52 I sat in your seat for many years when we crafted this
14:20:54 ordinance for home based use and I don't think at any
14:20:57 point in our wildest collective imagines did we
14:21:01 imagine we would be dealing with the usual you of a
14:21:03 pool as a home base use but in the crafting of that
14:21:05 ordinance we left enough room in the event that
14:21:08 circumstances such as this arose, where you could deal
14:21:10 with these on a point by point basis, on a situation

14:21:14 by situation basis, and it would allow you in the face
14:21:17 of overwhelming what I think is compelling evidence
14:21:20 that this is not intrusive to the neighborhood, to
14:21:22 make the correct decision.
14:21:24 I can tell you as a parent, who drops off his
14:21:27 daughters, one of his daughters on a regular basis
14:21:29 there, and who happens to stay there, is that there is
14:21:32 usually about a 15 minute gap between when my
14:21:34 daughter's class ends and when the next class begins,
14:21:37 which allows for a very easy transition for the
14:21:40 parents who are there to leave and the new parents to
14:21:42 come in.
14:21:42 There is no logjam at the current location.
14:21:45 There is no backlog.
14:21:47 There is no parking issues.
14:21:49 Parents come and parents go.
14:21:51 I would point out to you that immediately down the
14:21:53 street -- is the Elmo on?
14:21:58 >> Yes, it's on.
14:22:01 >>BOB BUCKHORN: Immediately down the street is the
14:22:02 daycare that was referenced where as you can see
14:22:04 parents are parking on the median, parking on the

14:22:07 right-of-way, with no discernible problems.
14:22:11 If you look at this particular picture, same street.
14:22:16 You can see that across from the proposed petitioner
14:22:20 is more than ample parking space on the median across
14:22:23 the street, not to mention what Mr. Grandoff showed on
14:22:27 the site plan, which gives you more than enough
14:22:29 parking on the side of the street even if you put the
14:22:34 appropriate ballards to protect the oak trees as you
14:22:36 should and as they have indicated they are willing to
14:22:38 do.
14:22:41 This will not be intrusive to the neighborhoods.
14:22:44 It's limited to five students per class.
14:22:47 15-minute increment between class.
14:22:49 Parents come, parents go.
14:22:51 There is more than adequate parking.
14:22:52 They are more than able and allowed to do.
14:22:54 If I build that pool and I had a pool party every day,
14:22:57 as many friends as I wanted to could come and park
14:23:01 either across the street or on my property and there's
14:23:05 absolutely nothing that would be in violation of the
14:23:06 law.
14:23:07 >> That's assuming you have that many friends.

14:23:10 [ Laughter ]
14:23:11 >>BOB BUCKHORN: That is true.
14:23:16 So if the only question that you are asking is whether
14:23:18 or not the waiver that you are contemplating granting
14:23:23 is in keeping with the spirit of the home-based
14:23:26 business use.
14:23:27 I think it is.
14:23:28 I think that's why we drafted this ordinance the way
14:23:31 it is, to give you the loop hole to do what you
14:23:33 contemplate doing.
14:23:35 It is a low intensive use.
14:23:36 It is managed by a family.
14:23:39 It is a world class program.
14:23:42 I don't think the neighbors will find it as intrusive
14:23:45 as they may believe at this point.
14:23:47 And I would ask for your consideration.
14:23:49 Thank you.
14:23:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:24:00 >>> Can I see that picture again?
14:24:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Ask him.
14:24:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's his picture.
14:24:04 >>> I'm Todd Hoffman.

14:24:08 How do you turn this on?
14:24:10 >> It's on, it's on.
14:24:13 We can see it.
14:24:14 >> Is that Thixton right there?
14:24:20 >>> That's San Miguel.
14:24:21 Those you power lines right there.
14:24:24 It's actually too close.
14:24:28 The wires get hit, the pool gets hit.
14:24:36 I was told had to move the pool because of extra
14:24:39 wires.
14:24:42 It's the concern of the safety of the kids there.
14:24:44 And these are great teachers, but that's a concern.
14:24:47 Council members, I appreciate you taking this time
14:24:49 letting me speak.
14:24:50 But a car may leave every once in a while, but when
14:24:56 you think four kids each half hour, you have more like
14:24:59 eight cars coming in.
14:25:01 They are not going to drop their kids O.
14:25:03 I know Mr. Buckhorn said he drops one kid off, they
14:25:06 might stay an hour there.
14:25:08 But they are going to be there.
14:25:09 You have kids, I have kids, I'm a teacher as well.

14:25:13 I know Mr. Delfinger -- or Mr. Dingfelder.
14:25:20 One car over four minutes you are going to exceed the
14:25:23 limits of ten.
14:25:24 You have more schools right now, Dale Mabry
14:25:27 elementary, Coleman, and countryside.
14:25:30 Traffic is a problem.
14:25:34 Pool is too large for a residential lot.
14:25:38 Neighbors will see the traffic increase.
14:25:40 The neighbors will hear the children crying all day.
14:25:44 Does this meet the requirement for home occupation?
14:25:46 No.
14:25:46 Where do the no-parking signs go?
14:25:49 We don't know.
14:25:53 She said this would happen again.
14:25:54 I called back in 2002.
14:25:56 They said this would never happen again.
14:25:58 She was at 1503 Georgia, and she went from four per
14:26:05 half hour to 16.
14:26:07 You can have 24 swimmers at any time.
14:26:10 The problem is if safety for children riding their
14:26:15 bikes, walking, you have a lot of schools, you have a
14:26:17 lot of problems.

14:26:18 A couple things is, how does this pass if the
14:26:22 neighborhood association is against it? Shouldn't the
14:26:24 neighbors have a voice in their own neighborhood?
14:26:26 It seems when past councilmen who do not live in the
14:26:31 neighborhood are writing letters in support they have
14:26:34 a conflict of interest especially when they have
14:26:36 friends on City Council.
14:26:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Stop the time.
14:26:41 When you are in hole picks, you have no friends.
14:26:43 >>> True.
14:26:46 Got ya.
14:26:47 I called the office and was told the other day this
14:26:51 was going to pass.
14:26:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Who said it was going to pass?
14:26:56 >>> A lady I talked to for about 25 minutes.
14:26:59 >> what is her name?
14:27:01 >>> I have a note at my school.
14:27:03 >> Please do.
14:27:03 I want to know right away.
14:27:05 >> She said there's no backyard.
14:27:11 That's just too big.
14:27:13 25-yard pool, you cut that in half, or three lanes of

14:27:15 the pool.
14:27:16 In this case, please be aware one of these may be in
14:27:20 your neighborhood.
14:27:21 After this is passed, that means somebody can apply.
14:27:24 I have for fact a person that's going to apply if this
14:27:27 does pass today.
14:27:28 So there will be one in maybe your neighborhood.
14:27:32 Now, the parking issue, that you must have ten parking
14:27:36 spots, because a pool like this size, it should be a
14:27:39 recreational zoning.
14:27:40 You also need handicapped parking.
14:27:42 You need to make sure you have restrooms, showers, for
14:27:46 health code.
14:27:47 The handy capped act.
14:27:51 Where is that child going to go when the rains come?
14:27:55 What about drainage for the back wash?
14:27:57 Will this pool be enclosed?
14:27:59 If not do they intend to close it later on in the
14:28:02 future?
14:28:04 I have a signed petition against this case of home
14:28:07 occupation.
14:28:08 Several of the residents --

14:28:10 (Bell sounds)
14:28:11 Can I give this to you?
14:28:12 Residents signed this that couldn't be here.
14:28:14 So I made copies for everybody.
14:28:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Your time is up.
14:28:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Where is your house?
14:28:20 >> 2311 south Lois and I also have 2309 south Lois.
14:28:25 On that picture, if I can show you.
14:28:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You can verbally describe it.
14:28:35 >>> San Miguel, third and fourth house in.
14:28:41 So I'm about maybe 100, 150 feet away.
14:28:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
14:28:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
14:28:49 Next speaker.
14:28:50 Anyone else?
14:28:56 >>> Good afternoon.
14:29:00 Thank you for allowing me this opportunity.
14:29:01 I'm Sandy Blackford, I live at 2305 south Thixton
14:29:08 court, two house as way from the house that proposes
14:29:11 to put in this business there we are the
14:29:14 newest house on the street.
14:29:15 We have a two-car driveway which gets used daily as a

14:29:23 turnaround point for the school, as Thixton court, and
14:29:29 they have to turn around, our driveway is usually the
14:29:31 first driveway because we are a two-car driveway.
14:29:34 Another thing too is the fact that we put our house on
14:29:38 the market about 10, 12 years ago to sell.
14:29:42 Feedback we got on it then was we were too close to
14:29:45 commercial because of the daycare, at the time there
14:29:49 was a service station on the corner of San Miguel and
14:29:53 Henderson, a wig shop on the corner, a tea house, and
14:30:00 we are just a little sleepy street by ourselves.
14:30:02 If we put a commercial business at the end of our
14:30:05 street, that opens up our street to commercial, and we
14:30:09 do not want it.
14:30:13 Thank you.
14:30:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
14:30:19 >>> Paul Blackford, I live at 2305 Thixton court.
14:30:28 Thank you for hearing me.
14:30:29 I just want you to be aware with all these cars coming
14:30:32 in and out for six to eight months, five cars, maybe
14:30:35 ten cars, whatever it is, if you notice in that one
14:30:40 picture, if you will open it again.
14:30:46 By the daycare, right here, it's all dirt and it's

14:30:50 only less than a year old.
14:30:52 And if you park on her side, it's going to be exactly
14:30:55 that way.
14:30:56 If you park in the front yard it's going to be that
14:30:58 way.
14:30:58 The only place it's going to be okay is the driveway,
14:31:01 which is going to be taken up by their cars.
14:31:03 And I know they have got two.
14:31:05 So I don't know where they are going to park their
14:31:08 cars.
14:31:08 But I'm afraid that's going to be all but nothing but
14:31:11 dust.
14:31:12 And if you are coming into my neighborhood, and drive
14:31:16 by my house with that sitting on your corner, how much
14:31:18 of it would you want to buy?
14:31:20 And how much price would you want to spend?
14:31:22 You are not going to want it because of the commercial
14:31:24 and the way the entrance to my street looks out.
14:31:28 Because of what's going to happen, and what has
14:31:31 happened in the past.
14:31:32 And as far as the mailouts, I thought they had to be
14:31:36 certified.

14:31:37 Our let letter was not certified.
14:31:39 And most of the people in our area did not receive one
14:31:41 as far as I know.
14:31:43 Thank you.
14:31:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sir, your house is where?
14:31:47 >>> I'm 2205 Thixton two, stories down, two houses
14:31:52 down.
14:31:52 I can look out my backyard and see their backyard.
14:31:55 And that's where all the noise is going to be.
14:31:58 Thank you.
14:32:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Should the clerk check on receipts?
14:32:09 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:32:10 The notice requirements for appeals, rezonings,
14:32:13 anything that's quasi-judicial is not certified mail,
14:32:16 it's certificate of mailing.
14:32:18 There is a difference.
14:32:18 Difference in cost and difference in the type of
14:32:20 mailer.
14:32:21 If the gentleman was speaking about receiving a groan
14:32:23 card or having to sign for, that's not the type of
14:32:25 mailing that's required.
14:32:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you for that clarification.

14:32:33 >>> Sharon Burlison, I live next door at south
14:32:38 Thixton.
14:32:39 The road is a cul-de-sac road.
14:32:41 There's 16 houses on this road.
14:32:43 There's many people that have lived there for many
14:32:46 years.
14:32:47 Elderly people.
14:32:48 Some people lived there their whole life.
14:32:50 Some of their children remain there.
14:32:52 Like many older neighborhoods in Tampa, this
14:32:55 neighborhood also has older grand trees.
14:32:58 One of those is 33 inches from the fence line in my
14:33:03 backyard.
14:33:04 How is that going to affect the roots of this tree
14:33:08 when a pool is proposed to be approximately six feet
14:33:11 away from that fence line?
14:33:18 Besides this oak tree, the oak tree we saw in the
14:33:21 picture, approximately six months ago, was severely,
14:33:25 severely altered in appearance.
14:33:29 There was a man climbing the trees using a hand saw on
14:33:32 this tree.
14:33:35 I was under the assumption permits are needed to prune

14:33:39 or alter trees on your own property.
14:33:42 I believe this is on city property possibly.
14:33:46 In some larger cities this is considered tree abuse.
14:33:53 The canopy, the appearance, the roots in my tree in my
14:33:56 backyard have to be altered because of cement of the
14:33:59 overlarge pool?
14:34:00 We are not talking about a normal family size pool.
14:34:03 We are talking about, I believe, it's over 1,000
14:34:06 square feet.
14:34:06 Some of the houses thon road are not everyone that
14:34:09 big.
14:34:09 They range from less than a thousand feet to 17,000
14:34:13 feet, I believe.
14:34:15 So besides the parking issues, I would hope you would
14:34:20 consider the beauty of the neighborhood and the
14:34:21 effects of pavement with the trees there.
14:34:25 Thank you.
14:34:36 >>> Walter Blanca.
14:34:38 I live at 2303 Thixton court.
14:34:42 I'm a lifetime resident there.
14:34:43 I live next door to them.
14:34:45 There's not a whole lot I can add to what's been said

14:34:48 today here already.
14:34:49 I do know the grand oak on the corner was altered.
14:34:52 I saw it myself happening.
14:34:55 And that is on city property.
14:34:57 My oak tree has a trunk that's over 50 inches in
14:35:02 diameter.
14:35:02 It's three feet from the fence line.
14:35:04 The pool is going in eight feet from my fence line.
14:35:08 So I don't know how that's going to affect that tree.
14:35:12 Aside from the no-parking signs that have disappeared
14:35:16 from there, which is a huge question that nobody has
14:35:20 really addressed here today at all, there were
14:35:23 no-parking signs there.
14:35:24 They are gone.
14:35:25 Did the city take them out?
14:35:27 Who did?
14:35:30 The increased traffic, that's already been discussed.
14:35:33 Property values, that's been discussed.
14:35:35 And noise levels that I am going to be dealing with as
14:35:39 a resident next door.
14:35:40 That's really all I have to say.
14:35:42 Thank you.

14:35:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
14:35:46 >>> I'm Joann McNabb, a member of the Palma Ceia
14:35:58 west neighborhood association.
14:35:59 And I have been here before in front of you guys,
14:36:02 because our neighborhood association is very concerned
14:36:08 because of the way our neighborhood is surrounded,
14:36:12 almost completely by commercial property, with Dale
14:36:14 Mabry on one side, Henderson on the north side,
14:36:19 Manhattan and Lois on the west side.
14:36:21 So we do have, you know, concerns for that.
14:36:26 And what I'm asking today is if you will, you know,
14:36:31 please consider the fact that that street, San Miguel,
14:36:35 is a natural transition.
14:36:37 We do have commercial on the north side of San Miguel.
14:36:40 And because of a lot of cooperation between the
14:36:43 daycares, between the businesses, as they have come in
14:36:46 and they have spoken to us as an association, for
14:36:50 example, the bank, they were very careful with not
14:36:55 infringing on our streets and bringing in more traffic
14:36:58 that way.
14:36:59 So they brought in their traffic other ways.
14:37:02 I just think the street right now, it's safer, it's a

14:37:07 natural transition, and the south side should be
14:37:10 residential because it is residential.
14:37:12 The north side already is commercial.
14:37:15 So that's what I am asking.
14:37:17 I'm concerned for the safety of the children.
14:37:18 I have lived there for 32 years and it was awful
14:37:21 before they made them stop parking on the south side.
14:37:24 It was very dangerous.
14:37:26 And the parents were there with the children, but they
14:37:31 would still come out and be going around to the other
14:37:33 side to get in the door or whatever, and especially
14:37:36 with the increase in the size of the vehicles they
14:37:38 were driving, and that was a concern.
14:37:41 And I would be concerned again, because I don't know
14:37:43 what would keep preschool parents from parking on the
14:37:46 other side if they thought they could.
14:37:48 They would be over there, too.
14:37:51 But right now, I feel it is under control.
14:37:53 So what I am asking is to keep that transition, that
14:37:57 natural transition on San Miguel.
14:37:59 Thank you.
14:38:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

14:38:02 Mr. Grandoff, you have rebuttal, five minutes.
14:38:09 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Let me address a few things first of
14:38:14 all, the tree.
14:38:15 This was spoken of.
14:38:21 The tree is on city right-of-way, Igor trimmed the
14:38:24 tree.
14:38:25 He was assuming it was on their property and he was
14:38:28 trimming the tree.
14:38:28 In my opinion, I thought it was an honest exercise to
14:38:34 trim that tree.
14:38:35 He meant no harm by that.
14:38:37 Second, on the overhead lines issue, Mr. HOFFmire
14:38:44 spoke to you about the overhead lines and his
14:38:47 perspective is reversed.
14:38:48 He's looking east along San Miguel.
14:38:50 According to the survey, the overhead line is here, in
14:38:55 the right-of-way.
14:38:56 As you can see, quite a distance, probably 25, maybe
14:39:00 30 feet from the pool.
14:39:02 I don't believe that overhead line is going to be a
14:39:04 risk to this pool operation.
14:39:06 And again the city will regulate the location of the

14:39:08 pool under chapter 5 with the blessing of Tampa
14:39:11 Electric Company.
14:39:14 There is no requirement that ten parking spots must be
14:39:17 provided.
14:39:18 I do not find anything in the code that requires that.
14:39:20 I'm only reading the criteria that we are applying
14:39:22 this afternoon.
14:39:24 Any other application that may or may not be filed is
14:39:26 not relevant this afternoon.
14:39:30 On the removal of the signs, I pointedly asked Olena
14:39:34 and Igor if they removed the signs or if they have any
14:39:36 knowledge of removing the signs.
14:39:38 They are here to you under oath this afternoon to have
14:39:42 absolutely no knowledge of the removal of those signs.
14:39:46 In this business, the toughest hearing you will ever
14:39:49 have is a hearing where the property is the boundary
14:39:52 between residential property and commercial property.
14:39:55 Across the street is the first Citrus Bank and a
14:39:58 daycare.
14:40:01 To the rear of the Lytvyn property, which is also
14:40:14 commercial.
14:40:15 The LYTVYNs are at the periphery, and therein lies the

14:40:22 rub.
14:40:22 I think the difference in this case that I think you
14:40:24 can hang your hat on and approve this application is
14:40:27 one photograph.
14:40:34 Mr. Buckhorn showed it to you.
14:40:35 I took these photographs yesterday morning.
14:40:38 And you will see the expansive amount of right-of-way.
14:40:41 The LYTVYNs property is right here.
14:40:44 This is their corner.
14:40:45 Here is the daycare clearly parked on the
14:40:48 right-of-way.
14:40:48 This is right-of-way right here.
14:40:49 The difference in this case is this is available
14:40:52 right-of-way to which the public has the right to use
14:40:56 it for proper legal purposes.
14:40:59 The public wants to come and have their children
14:41:02 schooled by the LYTVYNs at the Lytvyns property under
14:41:07 a home regulated occupation and use the right-of-way
14:41:10 and to me it is available for use, and I ask that you
14:41:13 a it this afternoon.
14:41:15 We can install the bollards to protect the trees and
14:41:18 the pool will be permitted according to chapter 5 to

14:41:21 address all drainage issues.
14:41:22 I have nothing further to add and I ask for your
14:41:25 approval.
14:41:25 Thank you.
14:41:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Grandoff, how long has the
14:41:31 petitioner lived at this residence?
14:41:36 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Excuse me one moment.
14:41:42 Three years and three months.
14:41:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Three years and three months?
14:41:48 >>> Yes.
14:41:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Secondly, could they build the pool
14:41:54 according to standard regulations or smaller size
14:41:59 without coming to this board for a special use?
14:42:01 Because as I understand the issue, the last time we
14:42:06 talked, when you all came before us, the issue was the
14:42:09 parking issue.
14:42:10 I remember that when you left.
14:42:12 Okay, resolve the parking issue and we'll be okay.
14:42:14 That's what everybody said last time we were here.
14:42:17 Okay.
14:42:17 Now we are back to something different, because we are
14:42:20 saying now, staff is saying parking is not the issue.

14:42:26 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:42:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The only issue before us really is
14:42:29 that they are asking to build a pool more than the
14:42:34 25%.
14:42:38 Is that right?
14:42:40 >>> And outside of the dwelling unit.
14:42:42 Correct.
14:42:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So that is really the issue before us.
14:42:44 Anyway, could you speak to the issue about if they
14:42:48 could build a pool within -- they don't have to come
14:42:51 before council if they were building, I guess.
14:42:54 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:42:55 If they built the swimming pool at the 25% threshold
14:42:58 or smaller, and it were actually within the dwelling
14:43:01 unit, indoor swimming pool, then the code criteria
14:43:06 would be met.
14:43:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Which means --
14:43:11 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Which means it would not be before
14:43:13 you.
14:43:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Would not be before us.
14:43:15 They would still have the swimming classes.
14:43:17 >>> Now, whether or not they could actually build a

14:43:19 pool that would even be worthwhile at 25%, this is a
14:43:22 very small house.
14:43:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
14:43:31 >>MARY MULHERN: I was just going to say, it sounds
14:43:34 like it has to be part of the structure for them to do
14:43:37 that.
14:43:37 So --
14:43:45 We are through with that.
14:43:46 >> Move to close.
14:43:48 >> Second.
14:43:48 (Motion carried).
14:43:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, a reminder, please.
14:43:53 That whatever your decision, and Ms. Coil and Ms. Cole
14:44:02 can embellish on what I am about to say, but whatever
14:44:05 your decisions are based should be factually based on
14:44:08 the evidence that you hear, and I would prefer,
14:44:10 council, please, that you do make reference to the
14:44:12 general standards that are in 27-269 within your staff
14:44:17 report.
14:44:18 They are enumerated and relate back to the facts as
14:44:22 you determine them to be, so that your findings,
14:44:25 whatever they are in this case, are based on

14:44:26 competent, substantial evidence.
14:44:28 Thank you.
14:44:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano, councilman
14:44:31 Mulhern.
14:44:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The hearing is closed.
14:44:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm sorry, I didn't notice that.
14:44:37 Sorry.
14:44:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Did you want top reopen?
14:44:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Is the pool going to be enclosed?
14:44:43 It was asked.
14:44:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think it's not.
14:44:47 I think that's been clear.
14:44:50 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Have a screen around it?
14:44:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If that's a factual question you
14:44:54 can't reanswer amongst yourselves.
14:44:57 >> Move to reopen.
14:44:58 >> Second.
14:44:59 (Motion carried).
14:44:59 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Is there going to be screening
14:45:02 around the pool?
14:45:05 >>> Yes.
14:45:05 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: That's an ordinance in the city

14:45:07 anyway, isn't it? If you build a pool you need to
14:45:10 have a screen?
14:45:12 >>> A fence or a screen.
14:45:14 They told me it will be screened.
14:45:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can I ask a follow-up question?
14:45:21 This is a Cathy Coyle question.
14:45:23 Does the screen mean that -- screen, do you define
14:45:30 that as inside the house or outside the house?
14:45:32 >>> It's still accessory.
14:45:34 They would actually have to build the walls out,
14:45:36 actually put it inside the house, which is not a
14:45:38 common thing.
14:45:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
14:45:43 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to move top --
14:45:47 Move to close.
14:45:48 >>MARY MULHERN: Move to close.
14:45:49 >> Second.
14:45:50 (Motion carried).
14:45:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Grandoff, there were questions
14:45:56 that were asked of staff.
14:45:58 Did you wish to say something in response to those
14:46:00 questions that you didn't otherwise have the

14:46:02 opportunity to have?
14:46:03 Do you understand my question?
14:46:05 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Yes.
14:46:08 Still on the screen issue.
14:46:09 What was Cathy's question?
14:46:11 >>MARY MULHERN: Move to reopen.
14:46:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, council.
14:46:14 It's adjusts when staff is asked questions, it opens
14:46:17 the door to have --
14:46:19 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: It didn't sound like a problem but I
14:46:21 want to make sure.
14:46:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Move to reopen.
14:46:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We are going around like a
14:46:25 merry-go-round and not going forwards or backwards.
14:46:29 Let me say this.
14:46:30 When this council hears the petitioner, when this
14:46:33 council hears the neighbors, the good neighbors that
14:46:35 come up, of their time and take to listen to this, and
14:46:39 then we have rebuttal, and then we close, are we in a
14:46:45 comb of a?
14:46:46 Let's get this thing off.
14:46:48 I mean, this is the second time we are going to close

14:46:50 this hearing.
14:46:51 This is not grammar school.
14:46:53 All of you that have been at this board -- I am not
14:46:56 talking to the neighborhood -- know the procedures and
14:46:58 you don't have to answer everything.
14:47:01 And I am not talking to you, I am talking in general,
14:47:04 sir.
14:47:04 Not you, Mr. Grandoff.
14:47:05 >>> I understand.
14:47:07 >> But every time you answer, there's no rebuttal to
14:47:09 that.
14:47:10 This is getting ridiculous.
14:47:16 $350 billion loan in less time than we do about a
14:47:21 pool.
14:47:21 And that was ridiculous.
14:47:23 [ Laughter ]
14:47:28 >>MARY MULHERN: The public hearing is closed so I move
14:47:30 to uphold the decision of the zoning administrator,
14:47:33 and finding that this was -- it was inconsistent, and
14:47:36 I'll read from the land development staff report.
14:47:40 It shall be conducted from the dwelling unit with not
14:47:44 more than 25% of the floor area.

14:47:47 The swimming instruction classes would be held from an
14:47:50 accessory structure and therefore shall not be
14:47:53 permitted.
14:47:54 So I Donald think there's much room there to have
14:48:00 appealed this, but I will refer to support by motion
14:48:04 the general standards, 27-269-A-1, the use will insure
14:48:11 the public health, safety and general welfare.
14:48:13 I feel that since I'm convinced, and I think there was
14:48:18 competent, substantial evidence from the neighbors,
14:48:20 that they have already been concerned about the safety
14:48:25 of that immediate area with regard to children being
14:48:29 dropped off and picked up.
14:48:31 So I think that there is some question about -- I
14:48:36 think it's clear it's not going to contribute to the
14:48:38 safety, and it may even make it more dangerous.
14:48:41 So I will refer to number 3, the use is compatible
14:48:45 with continuously surrounding property.
14:48:48 We have heard from all the neighbors.
14:48:52 I haven't heard from a neighbor in the immediate
14:48:54 vicinity that feels that this is consistent with the
14:48:56 neighborhood that they live in.
14:48:58 And I would also like to point out, because I try to

14:49:02 be consistent, and Henderson Boulevard cuts through
14:49:06 South Tampa and has become a commercial street.
14:49:12 And so we are always encroaching on those
14:49:16 neighborhoods.
14:49:16 So I feel like it sets a precedent every time we do
14:49:19 that.
14:49:20 Number 4, the uses in conformity with the comp plan.
14:49:24 I don't think that it's consistent with the zoning
14:49:26 regulations for the reasons that the zoning
14:49:29 administrator gave, or with future land use element.
14:49:33 Number 5, the use will not establish a precedent.
14:49:36 And those what I was talking about before.
14:49:39 I would also like to refer to B-2, off-street parking
14:49:43 and loading.
14:49:44 Due consideration shall be given to off-street parking
14:49:46 and loading facilities as related to adjacent streets.
14:49:52 So I think we have clear evidence that the neighbors
14:49:54 are concerned about San Miguel.
14:49:56 And if you look at the map, other than Henderson,
14:50:00 which the house doesn't sit on, all the surrounding
14:50:03 streets are just local residential streets.
14:50:07 And I just don't see how you are not going to have

14:50:12 either a lot of traffic, or way too much parking
14:50:18 needed.
14:50:19 And then I'm going to go on.
14:50:22 Number 6, drainage.
14:50:24 Because I have a pool, and I'm lucky enough to live on
14:50:27 one of the few streets in the city that has curbs and
14:50:31 gutters.
14:50:31 Every time we have to let the water out of our pool,
14:50:35 we have puddles.
14:50:37 So that looks like it would be dirt.
14:50:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You have a pool?
14:50:43 >>> It's going to be mud every time they have to let
14:50:46 actual water out of the pool.
14:50:48 Which is a problem for safety and compatibility.
14:50:53 And then number 7, control of potentially adverse
14:50:56 effects generally.
14:50:57 I think that we got enough evidence from the neighbors
14:51:00 that their concerns for traffic, safety, and just the
14:51:07 quality of a neighborhood that's a residential
14:51:10 neighborhood that's always under the threat of having
14:51:15 further commercial encroachment into their
14:51:18 neighborhood, which is not consistent.

14:51:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion is to uphold the zoning
14:51:24 administration ruling.
14:51:26 Seconded by Councilwoman Linda Saul-Sena.
14:51:30 All in favor?
14:51:30 Opposes?
14:51:32 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano voting no.
14:51:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: thank you all very much.
14:51:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to receive and file.
14:51:43 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Thank you for your time.
14:51:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:51:50 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to do a commendation to
14:51:52 the national champion of the Copeland park, the Martin
14:51:56 Luther King and the 2008 Hall of Fame, Thursday,
14:52:03 January 29, 2009.
14:52:06 >> Second.
14:52:07 (Motion carried).
14:52:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anything else coming before council?
14:52:09 We stand in recess until 5:01.
14:52:10 (City Council in recess)

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