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Thursday, January 22, 2009
9:00 a.m. Session

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[Sounding gavel]
09:03:14 >> Tampa City Council will come to order.
09:03:15 The chair will now yield to the honorable Linda
09:03:17 Saul-Sena.
09:03:43 >> Reverend Phyllis Hunt will lead us in the invocation
09:03:45 and we will then remain standing for the pledge of
09:03:47 allegiance.
09:03:48 I want to thank Reverend Hunt for her great leadership
09:03:51 in our community.
09:03:53 >> Spirit of the living God, we give you thanks and

09:03:55 praise for the many names that we many way that is we
09:04:05 experience you and your presence in this place.
09:04:07 We ask O God for your guidance in the decisions that
09:04:11 need to be made and the many hearts and lives in the
09:04:14 city that are represented by these decisions.
09:04:16 We pray for our county and the situations that would
09:04:21 continue to divide us, God, may we just lift up the
09:04:27 hearts and lives of our commissioners in the decisions
09:04:30 they will be making and the families that those
09:04:32 decisions will impact.
09:04:33 We pray O God for this state, for the hearts and lives
09:04:38 who are warmed by heat and the hearts and lives that
09:04:45 seek to be warmed by the lack of heat.
09:04:47 May our touch and the warmth that we share with each
09:04:50 other remind us of the privilege that we encounter by
09:04:59 the choices we make and the decisions we live by, O
09:05:02 God, may wisdom dwell within us and flow through us.
09:05:07 We pray for our country in this time of hope.
09:05:12 May we each see our part in making the potential that
09:05:16 lives within this great land come to fruition.
09:05:24 We pray, O God, for the hearts and lives who live in
09:05:30 the state of grief and loss.

09:05:32 May they be comforted.
09:05:35 We thank you for those who have gone before us, who
09:05:42 have made the freedoms that we enjoy possible.
09:05:44 May we each continue to offer our hands and our hearts
09:05:47 in service of our humanity in the great work that is
09:05:52 yet to be done, to restore lives to wholeness, to
09:05:59 continue living in such a place of freedom.
09:06:04 We offer all of this that has been spoken and so much
09:06:07 more that lives in our hearts that is unspoken.
09:06:12 We ask, O God, that you continue to be our friend, our
09:06:16 guide, our refuge, our strength.
09:06:20 In all that is sacred and holy in the many ways we
09:06:26 have yet to learn, we ask all of this.
09:06:28 Amen.
09:06:30 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:06:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
09:06:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:06:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:06:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:06:57 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:07:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:07:02 Let me read a memorandum from the honorable Charlie

09:07:06 Miranda.
09:07:07 Please be advised they'll be unable to attend
09:07:09 Thursday, July 22nd, 2009 City Council meeting due to
09:07:12 a family illness.
09:07:13 Please see the reason for my absence is read into the
09:07:16 record.
09:07:16 Thank you.
09:07:18 So councilman Miranda will not be with us today and
09:07:21 certainly we keep he and his family in prayer during
09:07:25 this time of illness.
09:07:31 At this time, I am going to ask if Melanie Hughes and
09:07:48 Steve Marshall will come forward.
09:07:50 We have a commendation for them today.
09:08:12 It is my pleasure to be able to present this
09:08:14 commendation to Mrs. Hughes and Mr. Marshall.
09:08:19 This is the 10th anniversary of the Super Bowl
09:08:22 celebration that will be held January 30th at the
09:08:25 Sun Dome.
09:08:28 And they have done an outstanding job.
09:08:36 Whereas Tampa City Council, both gospel celebration as
09:08:44 they launch the 2009 concert at the University of
09:08:45 South Florida Sun Dome, Tampa City Council recognizes

09:08:49 the long-standing Partnership Results, Inc. with the
09:08:53 National Football League and producing what has merged
09:08:57 as the premiere family oriented entertainment, where
09:09:01 players and fans come together to share in an
09:09:02 inspirational event during the Super Bowl weekend,
09:09:05 whereas in the tenth year of the Super Bowl gospel
09:09:08 celebration is the first and only gospel event
09:09:10 sanctioned by the NFL, the Super Bowl weekend, an
09:09:14 event drawing crowds in the thousands, one of the most
09:09:18 attended activities during this exciting weekend, now
09:09:21 therefore be it proclaimed that the Tampa City Council
09:09:24 does hereby recognize and commend results, Inc., and
09:09:28 wishes success for the 2009 Super Bowl gospel
09:09:32 celebration.
09:09:33 And so on behalf of all of the members of City
09:09:35 Council, I would like to present you with this
09:09:38 commendation.
09:09:40 >>> Thank you, chairman.
09:09:45 Thank you, entire council.
09:09:46 As he said this is our tenth year for the Super Bowl
09:09:48 gospel celebration.
09:09:50 It has been a wonderful journey and an event that

09:09:54 brings together some of the top players in the NFL
09:09:57 with everyday people.
09:09:58 It's a great thing that you can come together in the
09:10:02 spirit of unity, have a really wonderful musical time
09:10:06 during this event, in an affordable manner.
09:10:10 I just want to say thank you to each of you for this
09:10:12 awesome, awesome, awesome presentation.
09:10:15 We appreciate you and are most grateful.
09:10:19 Thank you so much.
09:10:22 We are going to be really blessed on that evening.
09:10:26 We have our Grammy award winning artist on that night
09:10:29 the reverend Donny McKlunkin, pastor Marvin Sapp who
09:10:36 has the number one song in the country right now
09:10:38 called "Never Would Have Made It" and that sound has
09:10:41 crossed all genres of music, "Mary, Mary," another top
09:10:46 group, Hezekiah Walker, and we feature an All NFL
09:10:54 Players Choir that we put together last year for the
09:10:57 first time.
09:10:57 They can really sing, too.
09:10:58 So they are going to be back by demand coming again.
09:11:02 All NFL Players Choir.
09:11:04 And I think you will be pleasantly surprised that they

09:11:07 sing on their own, we don't have any real singers
09:11:10 behind the curtain.
09:11:11 We let them stand there and do what they do.
09:11:16 And, also, we are going to be giving, I'm really proud
09:11:19 to say this, coach Tony Dungy has been very supportive
09:11:22 of us over the years, and by him retiring on this
09:11:26 year, we are giving him the lifetime of inspiration
09:11:28 award on that night.
09:11:31 So there's going to be some great surprises.
09:11:35 Some people from his life that are going to be there
09:11:37 to honor him.
09:11:38 The show starts at 7:30 at the Sun Dome arena.
09:11:42 And we are looking forward to having you all.
09:11:45 Let me make sure I have Mr. Marshall come up.
09:11:51 >> Some further information you can go to
09:11:57 >> What is the date?
09:11:58 >> It is January 30th, Friday night, January
09:12:01 30th at 7:30.
09:12:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Are those NFL players going to be
09:12:09 doing a little dancing, too?
09:12:14 >> They will be doing that, too.

09:12:17 And the interesting thing, last year, we had -- 32 in
09:12:25 the choir but 16 of them had Super Bowl rings so we
09:12:28 have some of the top guys in the league.
09:12:31 Thank you so much.
09:12:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:12:35 Much success.
09:12:36 [ Applause ]
09:12:39 Much success on that great event.
09:12:42 I want to ask Bonnie Wise to come now.
09:12:45 She has a presentation to make at this time.
09:12:47 Mrs.
09:12:48 >>BONNIE WISE: Wise director of revenue and finance.
09:12:51 We have our chief accountant and I am pleased to
09:12:54 present the certificate of achievement for excellence
09:12:56 in financial recording for our September 30, 2007
09:13:00 comprehensive annual financial report.
09:13:02 This is an award given by the GFOA, the government
09:13:07 financial officers association, and this is the
09:13:09 20th year that the city has received such an
09:13:12 award.
09:13:13 And Lee has members of his accounting staff here.
09:13:18 Bill, who is the one who mostly worked with the

09:13:20 auditors is on vacation, but I would really like to
09:13:23 recognize his staff, who is here and present today,
09:13:26 especially in a time when many companies, governments,
09:13:31 are criticized for not being transparent in their
09:13:34 reporting.
09:13:35 This award is especially gratifying.
09:13:38 It is telling everybody -- and I'll read just a brief
09:13:41 sentence from the letter that was sent to the mayor --
09:13:43 the certificate of achievement is the highest form of
09:13:45 recognition in government accounting and financial
09:13:47 reporting and this represents a significant
09:13:51 accomplishment by a government on its management.
09:13:53 So we are very proud in our transparency, in our
09:13:56 financial reporting.
09:13:58 So I would like you to recognize this group for all
09:14:01 their hard work.
09:14:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Stand up.
09:14:06 >>BONNIE WISE: If everyone could please stand.
09:14:10 [ Applause ]
09:14:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you all very much and
09:14:20 congratulations on such an achievement and
09:14:22 accomplishment.

09:14:24 We really appreciate that.
09:14:25 Thank you.
09:14:31 Now we have the approval of the agenda.
09:14:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members
09:14:34 of City Council.
09:14:35 Before you on your green sheet you have the addendum
09:14:41 to the agenda.
09:14:41 There are some changes that came in subsequent to the
09:14:43 printing of the distribution of that. I would like to
09:14:46 begin with a request by council member Mulhern
09:14:50 relative to item number 4, the changes to chapter 5, a
09:14:54 request to have that continued for two weeks to
09:14:56 February 5th.
09:14:59 With regard to number 20, there is a request by Jim
09:15:05 Stefan to substitute the ordinance to correct the
09:15:08 account numbers on that ordinance.
09:15:12 Also, council, number 74 is the comp plan adoption and
09:15:20 second reading and public hearing.
09:15:22 At 9:30, or sometime after 9:30, there will be a
09:15:26 request to continue that until February 5th
09:15:33 because of changes and negotiations that are
09:15:36 continuing.

09:15:36 And Mrs. Cole will be able to address that if you wish
09:15:41 to do that.
09:15:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: When it comes up.
09:15:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, at 9:30 because it is set for a
09:15:50 public hearing.
09:15:52 Mrs. Cole is also here on numbers 81 and 82 which are
09:15:55 set for staff reports and unfinished business.
09:15:58 Those are billboard settlement agreements with Clear
09:16:01 Channel and CBS. There is a request to continue for
09:16:05 two weeks to February 5th as well.
09:16:07 And if council has any questions.
09:16:11 Otherwise, we can just take that as a motion.
09:16:16 To remind council on number 88, and to inform the
09:16:20 public that the V 09-41 which is set for this
09:16:26 afternoon cannot be heard.
09:16:28 That's the alcoholic beverage petition at 514 Franklin
09:16:32 Street, suite 101.
09:16:34 That will be removed from the agenda.
09:16:36 That has been administratively rescheduled to February
09:16:38 19th, 2009 at 1:30 o'clock p.m.
09:16:42 Also, council, this afternoon, number 92, the decision
09:16:45 of the Variance Review Board, appeal, has been

09:16:48 requested for 3310 West Kennedy Boulevard.
09:16:51 However, council, that appeal has not been perfected
09:16:55 for the second time, and there will be a request to
09:16:57 have that removed from the agenda as well.
09:17:00 I believe, madam clerk, unless there's anything I
09:17:03 missed that needs to be taken care of this morning, we
09:17:05 can bring up in new business later on in the
09:17:07 afternoon.
09:17:08 But I don't believe there's any other changes in the
09:17:10 agenda.
09:17:10 Is that correct?
09:17:13 Item number 43 is a legal department has prepared the
09:17:19 resolution for that?
09:17:22 Item 43 is approval of the use of the city seal.
09:17:26 The item required a resolution.
09:17:28 That resolution has been prepared.
09:17:30 So when that item is taken up under consent docket if
09:17:34 that could be amended to move the resolution.
09:17:37 Thank you.
09:17:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
09:17:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:17:43 I have some questions on 26 and 29, just to pull those

09:17:47 for staff to come down and chat.
09:17:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 26 and 29.
09:17:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:17:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else now?
09:17:59 Other items to be pulled?
09:18:01 We'll take those up under staff.
09:18:04 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: You want to pull them?
09:18:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: For staff reports, 26 and 29.
09:18:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other items?
09:18:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's coming up under staff
09:18:18 presentation so we can discuss it then.
09:18:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, motion to --
09:18:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:18:29 (Motion carried).
09:18:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:18:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Would this be the time to bring up
09:18:38 new business items about putting the Westshore plan
09:18:43 for --
09:18:45 That's coming up under new business.
09:18:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
09:18:59 We will take public comment at this time.
09:19:01 Those that wish to address council may come forward.

09:19:03 You have three minutes.
09:19:05 State your name and address for the record.
09:19:13 >>> My name is Alan Snow.
09:19:14 I live at 1203 east Powhatan Avenue in Tampa, Florida.
09:19:21 I just wanted to submit some papers for the council.
09:19:26 I'm the director of the Southwest Florida Bicycle
09:19:43 Dealers, which rhymes with SWFWMD.
09:19:47 SWFBUD is a coalition of retail bicycle stores and
09:19:50 bicycle supporters who want to see bicycling going
09:19:56 with more resources in Tampa and surrounding
09:19:58 communities in the Tampa Bay market.
09:20:00 Our seven stores and one lawyer are in Tampa and
09:20:04 across the Tampa Bay area.
09:20:06 And SWFBUD stores generate more than $10 billion in
09:20:10 annual revenue and represent thousands of bicyclists
09:20:13 in Tampa and in the area.
09:20:16 I have crated SWFBUD because more people want to ride
09:20:21 bicycles in the Tampa area for many reasons, to get to
09:20:24 work, to school, to exercise, to visit friends and
09:20:27 family.
09:20:27 People in Tampa want to bike.
09:20:29 I co-founded the Seminole Heights bicycle club last

09:20:32 year.
09:20:32 I know for a fact people want to bike in this town.
09:20:35 Folks came to my front porch in Seminole Heights one
09:20:38 night last winter to help create a club that caters to
09:20:41 people who want to safely bike our streets.
09:20:44 Even with a impressed economy new bicycle shops are
09:20:47 opening in Tampa.
09:20:49 Truck, a company that manufacturers bicycles, opened a
09:20:52 truck specialty store in South Tampa.
09:20:54 Flying Fish Bikes in South Tampa opened another store
09:20:57 in Westchase.
09:20:58 A SWFBUD store in Tampa moved to a bigger stays down
09:21:03 the road.
09:21:04 SWFBUD is encouraging our officials in Tampa to
09:21:07 improve road conditions for bicyclists.
09:21:11 The word on the street that I get time and time again
09:21:13 is that too many people are afraid to bike on Tampa
09:21:16 streets.
09:21:16 It's true.
09:21:17 I have lived in cities across the country.
09:21:20 I have bicycled across the country by myself.
09:21:24 I have biked in every metropolitan area in the country

09:21:26 except Dallas, Houston and Phoenix.
09:21:31 To put Tampa into a broader context, when it comes to
09:21:34 bicycling it's true, our streets are dangerous for
09:21:38 bicyclists.
09:21:38 Our streets are too narrow, in poor condition, we do
09:21:41 not have sides on the road to bike, and area drivers
09:21:44 feel like they own the road.
09:21:49 Sure the city is a dangerous place to bike.
09:21:51 I would like to start with the attitudes of your city
09:21:53 staff.
09:21:53 I personally met and talked with three different
09:21:55 public works employees about improving streets in
09:21:58 Tampa for bicyclists, also have spoken with your city
09:22:03 public works director.
09:22:04 One staffer wasn't too keen on it but she said it's
09:22:08 legal to bike on sidewalks.
09:22:10 A second employee wanted to engage in an argument with
09:22:13 me about his assertion that bicyclists run red lights
09:22:18 and a third asked me about the best places to buy bike
09:22:23 tires, complete reply off the topic. I did speak with
09:22:29 Irvin Lee who said the city doesn't have the services
09:22:33 to improve the roads.

09:22:34 You see, it not just about bicycling, it's about
09:22:37 quality of life here in Tampa.
09:22:38 I have lived in Tampa for a number of years and am
09:22:40 about to tell you something you probably know.
09:22:41 The city of St. Petersburg has become a more livable
09:22:44 city, while Tampa remains a dangerous place to be a
09:22:47 pedestrian bicyclist.
09:22:48 (Bell sounds)
09:22:50 On any Saturday morning --
09:22:52 Thank you, sir.
09:22:52 Your time is up.
09:22:53 Thank you.
09:22:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: When we are dealing with public
09:22:58 comment, I want to create a workshop on bicycling.
09:23:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
09:23:06 Yes.
09:23:08 >>> Pete Johnson, 301 Druid hills road in Temple
09:23:14 Terrace.
09:23:14 I want to comment on item number 40 and 41.
09:23:20 Both Susan Long and Richard Revis have been on the
09:23:24 Nuisance Abatement Board for well over a year.
09:23:27 The reason they have resigned from the Nuisance

09:23:29 Abatement Board and went to the Code Enforcement Board
09:23:32 was simply that they were not being used as
09:23:36 volunteers.
09:23:37 The Nuisance Abatement Board has not seen a case in
09:23:40 over two years.
09:23:44 This board is very, very willing to become active, and
09:23:49 these volunteers are more than willing to give up
09:23:51 their time, but unless we can instruct the
09:23:54 administration and TPD to use this board, it is a
09:24:01 waste of these volunteers' time and money.
09:24:03 As it is you have two members that resigned from the
09:24:06 board simply because they were not being used.
09:24:11 It went to a board that hopefully their volunteerism
09:24:15 could be used.
09:24:17 I ask you, please, and there are many addresses that
09:24:20 fall in line with the Nuisance Abatement Board.
09:24:24 Please talk to the administration, talk to TPD, talk
09:24:28 to legal.
09:24:30 Let's use this board for the reason it was developed.
09:24:35 Thank you.
09:24:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Johnson.
09:24:38 Next?

09:24:47 >> Richard Formica.
09:24:50 19th century philosophy William James was credited
09:24:53 with saying: Act as if what you do makes a
09:24:57 difference.
09:24:58 It does.
09:25:00 Emboldened by Professor James words, I return to
09:25:03 exercise my rights to speak again before this council.
09:25:06 I want to speak again about the council's responses to
09:25:09 my request at Thursday the 8th meeting.
09:25:14 I think some of the responses were cynical, spoken
09:25:16 with ignorance of all the facts or with little
09:25:21 thought.
09:25:21 Potential may excuse behavior which I opine was in the
09:25:28 least a poor example for others, or at worst
09:25:29 unethical.
09:25:31 The responses were also in my opinion rude because I
09:25:35 felt personally attacked and was with unable to
09:25:37 respond.
09:25:41 A senator from Alaska, a governor from Illinois, a
09:25:43 Florida representative, and a Pinellas County
09:25:46 commission being criminally indicted, impeached or
09:25:52 chastised, none of us can afford to accept anything

09:25:54 but the most honest behavior from our elected
09:25:57 representatives.
09:26:00 We have a new president.
09:26:01 With new visions and goals and standards.
09:26:05 Therefore it is time to put the past behind us and get
09:26:08 on with the city's business.
09:26:11 This does not mean we should be blind to the behaviors
09:26:14 around us, nor should we pardon misdeeds.
09:26:19 We need to be vigilant as ever.
09:26:22 Tampa faces many problems that will take the
09:26:24 cooperation from all sides to overcome.
09:26:28 None the least are the present economic troubles but
09:26:31 also environmental, water supply, air quality,
09:26:34 escalating electrical power rates, health care, and
09:26:37 school funding, and transportation issues to name but
09:26:40 a few.
09:26:44 Let's put this brouhaha behind us and get on with the
09:26:47 important business of protecting the city and its
09:26:49 residents.
09:26:50 This does not mean we should overlook what has
09:26:53 happened, as we have more important issues to address.
09:26:58 But as our now famous governor of California once

09:27:00 said, "I'll be back."
09:27:03 Thank you.
09:27:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
09:27:09 >>> Good morning.
09:27:10 Randy Baron, 217 west Comanche Avenue.
09:27:14 I was going to speak this morning.
09:27:15 I was here for the billboard so I understand it's been
09:27:19 continued but after listening to Alan, and I know he
09:27:21 got cut off from his remarks and I wanted to finish
09:27:24 them because I am one of those cyclists who is
09:27:29 terrified to ride the roads.
09:27:32 I have done it and I have had too many close calls.
09:27:34 To continue Alan's remarks, he's asking you to take
09:27:37 specific steps to improve living and bicycling here in
09:27:40 Tampa, require bike lanes on all roads in Tampa when
09:27:45 fixed, repaved or improved, hire new staff members
09:27:48 whose job responsibility is to make sure that streets
09:27:50 in Tampa have bike lanes.
09:27:52 The city of St. Petersburg has three employees
09:27:53 dedicated to pedestrian and bicycle issues.
09:27:56 The City of Tampa has zero.
09:27:59 In competing with other cities across the country for

09:28:01 businesses, businesses don't relocate to Tampa because
09:28:04 we host the Super Bowl once every ten years, but come
09:28:08 for an educated workforce and if you have a quality of
09:28:11 life such as parks, safe roads and good schools.
09:28:13 If you want to give Tampa a competitive edge, make the
09:28:16 city a safe place to get around in ways besides
09:28:19 driving a car.
09:28:20 People in Tampa want to bike.
09:28:24 Alan and I encourage to you join the Seminole Heights
09:28:27 bicycle club and come with us on a local neighborhood
09:28:29 and downtown Tampa ride.
09:28:31 We have a ride every Saturday morning except the last
09:28:33 Saturday of every month.
09:28:34 We all hope to see you on a ride.
09:28:36 Thank you for your time.
09:28:38 If I may just add, there are a couple things we can do
09:28:41 to help encourage bicycle riding.
09:28:44 One thing we can do is to have organized rides with
09:28:47 partnership on the city.
09:28:48 There are things like Ciclovia, I hope I pronounced
09:28:55 that correctly, which have been springing up all
09:28:56 around the country and foreign countries. And I

09:28:57 believe Clearwater has one coming up.
09:28:59 Also, with the loss of the Friendship Trail, which was
09:29:02 a wonderful place to bike, how about doing something
09:29:05 out of the box like maybe closing the upper level of
09:29:10 Selmon on Sunday mornings and opening it up more than
09:29:17 just pedestrians but bicycle traffic, but there are
09:29:20 ways that we can improve cycling in the city and
09:29:23 encourage it so I hope council will take that into
09:29:25 consideration.
09:29:26 Thank you.
09:29:28 Also, a word for Richard and Susan Long, you cannot
09:29:34 get two finer people.
09:29:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The suggestion, I think, of the upper
09:29:39 level Selmon on Sunday mornings, I am going to ask --
09:29:44 I serve on that.
09:29:48 That's a great suggestion.
09:29:51 >>MARY MULHERN: Randy, what was that Clearwater thing
09:29:53 you mentioned?
09:29:57 >>> Cyclovia.
09:30:02 They have one in Miami and in Clearwater.
09:30:05 I don't know -- Alan, are there any others?
09:30:12 If you go to the web site they have a blog about it

09:30:14 and they do one I think either monthly or quarterly
09:30:18 and they get tremendous turnout but it can't happen
09:30:20 unless you partner with the city.
09:30:21 >>MARY MULHERN: Probably everyone on council got the
09:30:25 city of Bogata.
09:30:30 Did you guys see that?
09:30:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You can't speak from the audience.
09:30:41 >>MARY MULHERN: Start to organize one from Tampa.
09:30:42 >>> There's been talk of doing.
09:30:44 That it's just with the road closures necessary,
09:30:46 people would have to partner with the city and public
09:30:48 works.
09:30:48 So your support will be appreciated.
09:30:50 Thank you.
09:30:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To that end, that's exactly on
09:30:53 point, Ms. Mulhern, I think we should schedule a
09:30:57 special discussion meeting --
09:30:59 Why don't we bring that up in new business?
09:31:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to say it while these people
09:31:04 are here so they can hear about it.
09:31:05 I think we are done with public comment so I think
09:31:08 this would be a time to bring it up.

09:31:10 A special discussion meeting on creating a
09:31:12 bike-friendly city Thursday, February 26th at
09:31:16 1:30, optional for council members.
09:31:19 We invite the public.
09:31:20 We could discuss creating a Cyclovia, find out what
09:31:28 resources we devote and what we could devote and later
09:31:32 in that end we are having a report from public works
09:31:33 on our striping policies which are very nonexistent
09:31:37 for bicycles, and I think it would be a good
09:31:40 opportunity for us to look at and opportunities to
09:31:43 recreate Tampa as a bicycle friendly city.
09:31:46 Thank you for your leadership for bringing this to us.
09:31:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:31:51 We'll take it up under new business.
09:31:55 We have Mr. Clifford can us today, Bob Clifford, who
09:32:00 is stuffed for the TBARTA, and he will come and make a
09:32:04 presentation before council at this time.
09:32:06 Mr. Clifford, welcome.
09:32:08 >>I appreciate it.
09:32:09 Good morning.
09:32:10 I'm here to talk a little bit about TBARTA, let you
09:32:13 know where we are, and in our process, realizing that

09:32:16 the entity is a little over a year old, and want to
09:32:20 bring you up to speed on our first path which is
09:32:24 developing a regional transportation master plan.
09:32:26 I have a PowerPoint very brief for you to kind of fill
09:32:28 you in on the details and let now where we are so if
09:32:31 we can pull that PowerPoint up, we can get going.
09:32:42 As we are all aware, transportation is an issue,
09:32:44 continues to be an issue for our residents, they are
09:32:47 continually telling us that it's been interesting in
09:32:50 looking at the TBARTA region, citrus county to the
09:32:53 north, Sarasota County in the south, it really hasn't
09:32:56 mattered where we have been, the residents throughout
09:32:58 the entire region are telling us the same thing.
09:33:02 They are looking for options, looking for choices.
09:33:04 Transportation takes too long to implement.
09:33:06 And we need to find other ways to move forward within
09:33:09 this region in terms of providing mobility.
09:33:12 Also look at it from the perspective of what does it
09:33:15 cost our residents in the region?
09:33:20 Because we have very little in the way of options, the
09:33:22 Tampa Bay region has the fourth highest cost in the
09:33:25 entire nation in terms of the percentage of a median

09:33:30 family income that goes to transportation.
09:33:37 We have very little options and choices.
09:33:39 You want to have mobility, you basically have to get
09:33:42 in a vehicle, in a car, and move forward.
09:33:45 >>MARY MULHERN: I just have one quick question.
09:33:46 What is an area that has the lowest cost?
09:33:50 Are they cities that have transit?
09:33:54 >>> They are cities that have transit.
09:33:56 Most regions have transit, more than this region does.
09:33:59 It's also the issue of the cost of insurance, numerous
09:34:04 other factors that play into it.
09:34:11 Some of the top ones are more urbanized areas like New
09:34:14 York and Chicago.
09:34:16 Where we compare ourselves to are the Charlottes and
09:34:19 Denvers and Dallas and Phoenixes of the world who are
09:34:23 considerably lower than us.
09:34:29 Really as we started going through this process, it
09:34:31 became clear to us in terms of this discussion was
09:34:35 transportation is important and about mobility but it
09:34:38 really about quality of life, and at the end of the
09:34:40 day it's about economic development.
09:34:42 We have taken the TBARTA board on a tour of the

09:34:45 Charlotte area, the Dallas area, and the Denver areas,
09:34:49 and standing next to Mayor Iorio in Charlotte and we
09:34:53 were looking at what was going on there, and she
09:34:55 actually made an interesting comment to me.
09:34:57 She says, Bob, look at all the cranes going on here
09:35:03 in, terms of construction.
09:35:04 It was all around transit.
09:35:05 And that was kind of the litmus test of economic
09:35:10 growth and being able to move forward.
09:35:11 It was all geared around the transit system.
09:35:13 And the development that occur as round transit.
09:35:16 So we really started looking at it from the
09:35:18 perspective of not only is it transportation, but it's
09:35:21 also about economic growth.
09:35:25 We went through a process looking at the various
09:35:27 connections we need to make over the entire region,
09:35:29 where do we need to be connecting not only in the
09:35:33 existing but also in the future.
09:35:35 It's interesting, I asked you to -- all come up with
09:35:39 things very similar.
09:35:40 It's intuitive in terms of where we need to be
09:35:42 connecting within the region.

09:35:44 We went through that process you see here.
09:35:46 This is our phase 2 map in terms of all those
09:35:49 connections or the types of improvements, technologies
09:35:52 that we would utilize with that.
09:35:53 Now moving on as we get kind of toward the end of our
09:35:56 process, we really go down to what we refer to as
09:35:59 phase 3.
09:36:00 We broke it into what we said were three networks,
09:36:03 realizing from TBARTA's perspective is the spine
09:36:07 system or the way I like to industry it is talking
09:36:10 about the interstate version of transit within the
09:36:13 region.
09:36:14 In terms of making those connections around the
09:36:16 region.
09:36:17 We looked at three different networks in terms of what
09:36:19 we would be looking to move forward with, in terms of
09:36:22 providing a plan, in terms of where we go, not only in
09:36:26 the shorter term -- and I say shorter term, that 10 to
09:36:30 20 year, but also out to 2050.
09:36:32 Where are we going as a region in a transportation
09:36:35 perspective and how does transit fit into that role?
09:36:38 It also came down to the point of developing a plan

09:36:41 that actually the board will take up tomorrow in terms
09:36:43 of putting this board to coordinate with all of our
09:36:47 partners, at the local level, receive comment and
09:36:49 input from them.
09:36:50 We have been doing that throughout the process.
09:36:52 What you see here is what we refer to as our long-term
09:36:55 plan, what you see in red is light rail connections
09:36:58 within a region, what you see in blue are expressed
09:37:03 bus rapid transit, yellow is commuter rail
09:37:07 connections, and then green are again express bus
09:37:11 connections within the region.
09:37:13 So you see we are really connecting the entire region
09:37:15 in various scenarios.
09:37:17 Shorter stops, shorter frequency and longer frequency
09:37:21 connections in terms of the area.
09:37:23 We also looked at what we report as the midterm.
09:37:27 Where do we think we can go in the next 20 to 25 years
09:37:30 in terms of developing a system?
09:37:32 Again what you see is in red.
09:37:48 What's very interesting is the core of the system goes
09:37:49 from Wesley chapel to New Tampa to USF to downtown,
09:37:53 over to Westshore, across the bay to the gateway area

09:37:56 in Pinellas and down to St. Petersburg.
09:37:59 That connection that you see there is the core of the
09:38:01 system.
09:38:02 It is the part that provides the most ridership and
09:38:09 also has great options and abilities related to
09:38:12 economic development and growth in various points
09:38:15 along the entire corridor.
09:38:17 So that's where we are looking at in terms of the
09:38:19 initial plan, the initial pieces that we look at to
09:38:23 move forward.
09:38:31 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone) can you show me the
09:38:36 connection going over to the beach?
09:38:37 But now it looks like there's a rail connection going
09:38:39 over?
09:38:39 >>> There is a rail connection from a light rail
09:38:42 perspective that connects Clearwater and Clearwater
09:38:45 beach with the gateway area in Pinellas County, that
09:38:49 it would come across the bay.
09:38:52 >> Is that new?
09:38:53 >> No.
09:38:54 In terms of what we have been looking at from TBARTA,
09:38:57 that's always been one of those key connections that

09:38:59 we need.
09:38:59 >> Oh, good.
09:39:00 I thought it was kind of downtown St. Pete.
09:39:06 But it goes up to Clearwater but we don't have one
09:39:08 going over to any of the beaches, St. Pete or southern
09:39:15 Pinellas beaches?
09:39:16 >>> In the longer term plan we have a connection
09:39:18 between Clearwater and St. Pete.
09:39:19 We also have in Pinellas County there's a bus rapid
09:39:21 transit line and Central Avenue corridor that connects
09:39:24 from the core of downtown, takes you all the way over
09:39:27 to the beaches, goes to Tierra Verde and all the way
09:39:32 to St. Pete Beach as part of those connections.
09:39:35 >> In your plan, is there any consideration for
09:39:38 bicycle paths?
09:39:39 >> We are not at that level yet.
09:39:42 When we get down to the detail level, in terms of what
09:39:46 all of the connections need to be, not just bicycle
09:39:48 paths, its roads.
09:39:54 You still have to address some road issues need to be
09:39:56 part of that.
09:39:57 We are still at that higher level look in the entire

09:40:01 region.
09:40:01 When we get down to the specific corridors, we will
09:40:04 then be addressing what those needs are at that local
09:40:06 level.
09:40:12 We wanted to make the point that in terms of having a
09:40:14 regional system of connections, you also needed
09:40:18 strong, vibrant, active, local transit systems in
09:40:21 order to get people from where they are to where they
09:40:23 want to go.
09:40:26 Part of what we are trying to point out and part of
09:40:29 what we are looking at and fitting with our plan is
09:40:32 having significantly strong local transit systems.
09:40:36 And what we are including in that is increased
09:40:40 frequency, increased ground miles, duration, and
09:40:43 accounting for the costs within what we are doing, so
09:40:46 we are actually tripling the amount of local transit
09:40:49 service within our plan and accounting for how you
09:40:52 would need to move forward in terms of funding those,
09:40:55 because ultimately we need to build this
09:40:57 incrementally.
09:40:58 It's a lot of stuff.
09:41:00 It's a lot to move forward with.

09:41:01 We need to build it from an incremental perspective.
09:41:05 When continue to move forward working with land use
09:41:09 folks in the entire region.
09:41:10 We are very high on our land use working group.
09:41:12 It consists of city and county planning folks.
09:41:14 It consists of the development community, consists of
09:41:18 the environmental community and citizens.
09:41:19 Having the discussion about not only transportation
09:41:22 but how it goes to land use and how it can continue to
09:41:27 grow.
09:41:27 Getting the word out, starting to make that concerted
09:41:29 effort from a media perspective, looking at different
09:41:33 ways to get the information out there to the public.
09:41:35 We'll be doing that over the next several months,
09:41:37 looking to adopt the plan which we are required to do
09:41:41 by legislation of July 1st to adopt one in March,
09:41:45 and then really have the discussion about now that we
09:41:48 have a plan and a vision of where we are going
09:41:50 regionally, how do we actually take those incremental
09:41:52 steps from a funding and implementation perspective in
09:41:55 terms of building the various projects?
09:41:57 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone) I can't help looking

09:42:06 at that thinking, you know what would really work, is
09:42:10 the old street car system, because you are looking at
09:42:13 practically every corridor, and it just really struck
09:42:20 me.
09:42:20 I don't know if you use that, but Ray Chiaramonte had
09:42:27 distributed a DVD about how the street car system
09:42:31 across the country have been disassembled, and it's
09:42:34 really interesting because I think that what we are
09:42:37 doing is having to kind of backtrack and go back to
09:42:43 the thought.
09:42:44 But I also think about with the situation we are in
09:42:48 now, it's worth -- and I just say that, every
09:42:53 opportunity I can.
09:42:54 I assume that TBARTA will look into it.
09:42:57 But looking at street cars, as a possible alternative
09:43:05 to some of the more expensive road and right-of-way
09:43:10 for commuter and light rail, because I think we may be
09:43:14 at least in our communities like in Tampa, St. Pete,
09:43:18 be looking at some really difficult funding problems.
09:43:26 Just wanted to throw that out there, my streetcar
09:43:31 club.
09:43:32 >>> I appreciate it.

09:43:34 Thank you.
09:43:35 I want to point out that this slide was the point of
09:43:38 those web hits that we received.
09:43:40 What we really like about it is over half of those web
09:43:44 hits every single day are new hits, are new people
09:43:49 getting to the site, interested in what we are doing
09:43:51 and interested in having discussion of moving the
09:43:53 transportation thing forward.
09:43:55 What we really see is, coming down to the point, we
09:44:00 realize we still have some significant challenges
09:44:02 ahead of us.
09:44:03 Clearly if we talk about transportation,
09:44:04 transportation, it's always about the money.
09:44:08 How do we find the money?
09:44:10 What do we move forward with?
09:44:12 We feel pretty confident from a federal and state
09:44:14 level that we would compete very well, in terms of
09:44:17 funding, the key will be local funding, and finding
09:44:19 the resources at the local level from a county by
09:44:22 county perspective in order to meet those matching
09:44:25 requirements at the federal and state level.
09:44:27 That will be the key.

09:44:28 That will be part of what we do.
09:44:29 But it's also part of the education process in terms
09:44:32 of what are we talking about, what are we providing,
09:44:36 is it what people are looking for, is it in the right
09:44:38 area?
09:44:39 That's going to be a key part of what we do.
09:44:41 Also, the issue of when we start crossing county lines
09:44:44 with connections, who operates the system?
09:44:48 We have presently within the region seven different
09:44:50 local transit agencies.
09:44:51 Does each agency operate their own within each county
09:44:54 and different agency, TBARTA or some other agency, or
09:45:03 some other arrangement as part of that?
09:45:04 We'll be everything that discussion over the next
09:45:06 several months.
09:45:07 Obviously the issue of education and advocacy, talking
09:45:09 about what we are dealing with, this is more than just
09:45:12 mobility and transportation.
09:45:13 It's quality of life and economic development.
09:45:15 What really struck the TBARTA board when we went to
09:45:19 other areas, all of our competitors are moving forward
09:45:21 in terms of providing transportation facilities,

09:45:25 particularly transit.
09:45:26 And what they are seeing in terms of growth and
09:45:28 revenue is very eye opening to us, that we need to be
09:45:32 doing the same things.
09:45:33 Our competitors are doing it.
09:45:35 They are being successful with it.
09:45:36 We need to be moving forward with that.
09:45:39 We are seeing it in Florida, south Florida continues
09:45:41 to move forward with that.
09:45:42 It's becoming very successful.
09:45:44 Central Florida is now moving forward with their rail
09:45:47 plans.
09:45:48 Tampa Bay is still not there.
09:45:50 And we need to be moving forward.
09:45:52 We really look at it at the end of the day, our last
09:45:55 point, are we willing to ensure that we be successful?
09:45:58 We have been there before.
09:46:00 We have had these discussions before.
09:46:01 We really see a different dynamic here, though.
09:46:04 Two things that I will point out that we see very
09:46:06 clearly.
09:46:06 One is the business community has been very clear that

09:46:09 we have to address transportation and transit needs to
09:46:12 be part of it.
09:46:14 They continually make that point to us.
09:46:16 The other side of it is, in this scenario, we do not
09:46:19 need to bring the Department of Transportation kicking
09:46:21 and screaming to the conversation.
09:46:23 They are very interested.
09:46:24 They have been interested.
09:46:26 They have been the key financial partner in this
09:46:27 entire effort that we have been doing.
09:46:32 They have owned my time for over a year towards this
09:46:35 effort, with the Department of Transportation.
09:46:37 It's been very important that they are looking to do
09:46:39 this.
09:46:39 (Bell sounds)
09:46:40 And with that, Mr. Chair, we have our next meeting
09:46:43 tomorrow.
09:46:43 And look forward to the discussion.
09:46:46 The mayor is coming to give a presentation to the
09:46:50 board, her plans and how they fit in with what we are
09:46:53 doing.
09:46:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ms. Saul-Sena.

09:46:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:46:58 I laughed because 22 years ago as a new member of the
09:47:01 MPO I thought that we needed a regional rail system.
09:47:04 And at that time, the state Department of
09:47:07 Transportation had just renamed itself from the
09:47:09 highway department, and to say it did not embrace a
09:47:14 rail system is an understatement.
09:47:15 And education is a wonderful thing, and this
09:47:18 Department of Transportation now recognizes the need
09:47:21 for this.
09:47:22 If we had only 22 years ago adopted a statewide rail
09:47:25 system, what better shape we would all be in.
09:47:28 Thank you for your leadership in this, Mr. Clifford.
09:47:32 I want to make certain that when we are looking at
09:47:35 creating the system, which is a wonderful system, and
09:47:37 he would all recognize its need, that just as Mr.
09:47:40 Caetano brought up we need to make sure that
09:47:43 everything ties into it from bicycles to pedestrians
09:47:45 to buses to parking lots so people can drive to a
09:47:52 parking lot and then hop on the train.
09:47:53 It has to be an integrated, holistic system.
09:47:57 And in you included TBARTA, don't just show us

09:48:03 pictures of trains.
09:48:04 Show us pictures of people.
09:48:05 People walking, bicycling, getting to the station in a
09:48:09 variety of ways, and recognize, I don't know if it
09:48:12 going to be local or state or whatever kind of money,
09:48:14 but we have to make sure that neighborhoods have safe,
09:48:17 good ways to get to the system.
09:48:19 And we as City Council will develop land use that
09:48:24 supports this.
09:48:25 Ten years ago working with bill booth, I worked on
09:48:28 transit oriented development, and we actually had an
09:48:31 entire program of land use to support transit.
09:48:35 And unfortunately the county commission at that time
09:48:39 stymied us and we went back to below zero because we
09:48:41 had to give up the 300 million in federal dollars
09:48:43 which we had in line if we had only made the local
09:48:45 match but I think now as you indicated we are all
09:48:50 overeager.
09:48:51 So onward and upward.
09:48:53 We look forward to working with you and how can we as
09:48:56 members of City Council support the TBARTA effort?
09:48:58 >>> Well, I would say from two perspectives.

09:49:02 One is as the plan gets out there and being supportive
09:49:05 of that effort, that we need to be moving forward in
09:49:07 that direction.
09:49:09 The other is as you mentioned, land use.
09:49:12 That's really critical.
09:49:13 In order to make this stuff work, we have got to
09:49:16 change the way we develop land uses.
09:49:18 And we have got to change some of the land development
09:49:20 regulations.
09:49:21 Because we have issues of parking, and sidewalks, and
09:49:24 all those issues.
09:49:25 In order to make it successful, we have to address
09:49:27 those.
09:49:28 And that's one of the things we have been working very
09:49:31 hard with all of our partners on that.
09:49:33 Actually, I will say from what the City of Tampa has
09:49:35 done most recently within your comprehensive plan,
09:49:37 some of the changes you made there, you really are
09:49:40 being a leader in the region in terms of addressing
09:49:44 some of those issues.
09:49:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
09:49:50 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Clifford, in your previous

09:49:52 position, I had spoken to you about route 56.
09:49:58 >>> They were looking to what the potential was to
09:50:01 restripe it in terms of making it clear, some signage.
09:50:04 There was not going to be lighting on the issue
09:50:07 because it wasn't part of the plan.
09:50:08 It would be too costly.
09:50:10 But they were looking at the issue.
09:50:11 We understood your point of trying to access that.
09:50:19 >>> Okay.
09:50:20 Thank you.
09:50:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Welcome, Bob.
09:50:22 Thanks for your presentation.
09:50:25 The other day, I can't remember if it was at the MPO
09:50:28 meeting or afterwards, somebody took a little bit of a
09:50:32 cheap shot and said something along the lines of
09:50:36 taking the D.O.T. road guy and putting him in charge
09:50:39 of TBARTA and all he cares about are roads and that
09:50:42 sort of thing, and I know that not to be true but I
09:50:45 just wanted to hear your take on that, and give you an
09:50:48 opportunity to say something in that regard.
09:50:51 >>> Well, I have very thick skin to that.
09:50:56 It didn't bother me from that perspective.

09:50:58 The thing I will tell that you really strikes us and
09:51:00 from the perspective is it's really not just about
09:51:05 transportation.
09:51:06 And that's how we need to be looking at it.
09:51:08 And I convince myself more every single day that we
09:51:11 are further and further behind our competitors, and
09:51:14 how much we really have to do.
09:51:17 Going to places.
09:51:19 You have all been to places when you see how this
09:51:21 stuff works and how transit is integrated into land
09:51:24 use and from an economic perspective, how much it
09:51:27 matters.
09:51:28 That's what we need to be talking about and that's
09:51:30 what we need to be doing.
09:51:32 To me that's not a road or transit.
09:51:34 That's quality of life and that's something we all
09:51:36 need to be concerned about.
09:51:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I know that you are firmly
09:51:40 committed --
09:51:42 >>> Oh, absolutely.
09:51:42 >> To this dream and hopefully we'll all live to see
09:51:45 it.

09:51:45 Just on a side note, as council mentioned earlier,
09:51:51 several of us had the opportunity to be in Washington,
09:51:52 D.C. this past week, and my daughter lives about six
09:51:57 blocks off of a metro station in D.C. proper, and it's
09:52:04 funny because just watching, it's relatively new
09:52:07 stations, my understanding, and just watching the
09:52:10 changes and the growth around that station, it was
09:52:13 sort of a declining area in D.C., and then they put
09:52:17 the station in, and then within ten years, now, it's
09:52:20 got a Target, it's got about ten restaurants, several
09:52:24 of which we ate at, right there.
09:52:27 You come up from the station, boom, there it's all
09:52:30 happening.
09:52:30 And five years ago when I went to visit her, it was
09:52:33 demolished, bricks, slum, the whole nine yards, and
09:52:38 now it's just really, really an area that's come back.
09:52:41 And there's no reason that that particular three-block
09:52:44 area would be coming back any more than any other
09:52:47 three-block area except for the fact that there's a
09:52:49 station there.
09:52:50 And that's what transit oriented development is all
09:52:52 about.

09:52:53 When people hear about TOD, they need to think about
09:52:59 these are jobs in the community that otherwise
09:53:02 wouldn't be there.
09:53:02 >>> 100 percent, absolutely.
09:53:05 I don't think people realize what that connection is.
09:53:07 People are looking for the development community.
09:53:11 It's been clear to us. They consider and use the
09:53:12 term, this isn't a beach front property, that we need
09:53:15 to be looking at in terms of development.
09:53:17 We're ready.
09:53:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:53:20 >>MARY MULHERN: John, I'm glad you brought up
09:53:23 Washington because that's a fairly new system, isn't
09:53:25 it?
09:53:26 So we are behind.
09:53:27 But it's possible to catch up.
09:53:31 I think that we need to keep that in mind and try not
09:53:34 to beat ourselves up so much and just try to get
09:53:37 something done.
09:53:43 It really strikes me today because TBARTA got started
09:53:45 about the time I got started on council, and the
09:53:48 entire -- the economic environment is in bad shape,

09:53:53 totally different landscape for that.
09:53:58 Environmentally we are in a different place.
09:53:59 And we absolutely are going to be forced for those
09:54:03 reasons to get transit going.
09:54:07 So I think that, you know, the bad news is we are in
09:54:11 bad shape.
09:54:11 The good news is it's going to force us to do this.
09:54:14 And then the other good news is politically, you know,
09:54:22 we now have a president who is going to support
09:54:26 livable cities, and urban development, and is
09:54:32 committed to reducing greenhouse gases an doing green
09:54:37 development.
09:54:37 So I think that we need to push really as fast as we
09:54:40 can to get our share.
09:54:43 And in that light I wanted to bring up the streetcar
09:54:48 again, because I spoke with Kathy Castor recently, and
09:54:56 she's a big supporter of the street car, and got us
09:54:59 money for the extension that we are going to be
09:55:01 building.
09:55:02 And one of the things that she agreed with me on is
09:55:06 that we actually have a transit system in Tampa, and
09:55:12 that becomes a good basis for us getting in line for

09:55:18 transit dollars federally.
09:55:20 And I think that, you know, the streetcar has always
09:55:23 been this political football, but the reality is all
09:55:26 these cities that are building street cars now, 30 or
09:55:30 40 new cities, are just starting to build them.
09:55:33 We have had that beginning, which is what it is for a
09:55:35 long time.
09:55:36 So I think that that needs to -- I know it hasn't been
09:55:41 part -- it's been a very small part of TBARTA's plan,
09:55:47 but I think that is -- it needs to be used -- it needs
09:55:52 to be leveraged and it needs to become a bigger part
09:55:55 of that because I think that's going to help with us
09:55:57 the money.
09:55:57 And then the thing I wanted to ask you about is, you
09:56:02 know, I know that you're very, very committed to
09:56:05 transit.
09:56:07 We went to -- we were both at the railvolution a
09:56:15 couple years ago and I think the biggest topic there
09:56:17 was the fact that all of our transit dollars are
09:56:20 awarded by vehicle mile traveled, which is still the
09:56:25 case.
09:56:27 And I'm wondering if TBARTA is lobbying at all to get

09:56:31 that changed, because I think that is the biggest
09:56:35 obstruction, and the fact that, you know, now we are
09:56:38 being allowed to ask for emergency infrastructure
09:56:44 money, but there are plans on the books for much
09:56:50 transit because you can get money from transit, the
09:56:54 money has to go to more lanes and more roads.
09:56:57 So I'm wondering if that is at all a part of what
09:57:00 TBARTA is doing to try to change that formula for
09:57:03 funding so that we have funding for transit, for rail,
09:57:06 for buses, as opposed to just --
09:57:13 >>> We have been having that discussion on the federal
09:57:15 level, but we also see, though, is what we need to do
09:57:18 is we have got the first project and we need to be
09:57:20 successful at it, to show that we can make it work in
09:57:23 this region.
09:57:24 That's critical for funding.
09:57:26 We have got to get over that first one.
09:57:28 >>MARY MULHERN: And what is the consensus, or what's
09:57:34 TBARTA leaning toward now for the first leg?
09:57:37 >>> I would say the mayor is coming tomorrow.
09:57:40 Clearly that connection from Wesley chapel to
09:57:42 St. Petersburg makes a lot of sense.

09:57:43 You wouldn't necessarily build that all at once.
09:57:46 That's too big.
09:57:46 The mayor is going to be talking about the USF to
09:57:49 downtown connection first.
09:57:51 That's the project probably most ready to go.
09:57:55 We are going to have a very good conversation, I
09:57:57 think.
09:57:57 We are pretty much in agreement on that.
09:57:59 Just try to work through the details.
09:58:01 >> Where is your meeting tomorrow?
09:58:02 >> Tomorrow it's over at USF.
09:58:05 At the USF connect building.
09:58:08 That's at 9:30 tomorrow morning.
09:58:12 We have public comment at the beginning of the meeting
09:58:13 and at the end of the meeting.
09:58:15 Both places.
09:58:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Clifford, I don't know if it's too
09:58:20 early in the process to name a station but I want to
09:58:23 put on the record when you start naming stations,
09:58:25 don't forget about East Tampa.
09:58:26 We need some stations --
09:58:28 >>> Absolutely.

09:58:29 Absolutely.
09:58:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me make a couple of comments.
09:58:37 >>GWEN MILLER: If you want me to work with that I'll
09:58:39 be happy to.
09:58:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just say that three of us was
09:58:42 in Washington Monday, over the weekend and Monday, and
09:58:46 I will tell you that what was so impressive, I was at
09:58:50 BWI airport, the Marriott.
09:58:53 We had to catch the bus, about 15 to 20 minutes to the
09:58:59 greenbelt line, and so the greenbelt line, then we
09:59:02 changed to the blue line.
09:59:03 But it was very easy, really was easy.
09:59:10 It was a very good ride.
09:59:12 And I'm extremely proud.
09:59:14 But the impressive thing was that my understanding, I
09:59:20 got a newspaper, over a million people rode the system
09:59:24 that day.
09:59:25 I will tell you that the people moved through there
09:59:28 pretty fast, pretty expeditiously.
09:59:32 And very cordially.
09:59:35 It was very neat when you first got in, you put in
09:59:38 your pass and then when you didn't have to switch

09:59:42 over.
09:59:43 It's great.
09:59:43 It was a great experience.
09:59:44 With that many people, I mean, I thought about, you
09:59:49 know, wouldn't this be great if Tampa had this,
09:59:53 Hillsborough County had this by now?
09:59:55 But it was a great experience.
09:59:56 To see a million people on one day using that system.
10:00:00 So that was great.
10:00:01 Also, I want to follow up and say that the key is go
10:00:08 going to be, I know all these plans are great.
10:00:10 The key is going to be, and I think what happened is
10:00:13 the funding, the funding and the referendum.
10:00:17 I believe most of them on the board of county
10:00:21 commission are seeing that anyway and that it will
10:00:24 probably be a 2010 referendum, but the word still
10:00:28 hasn't begun because you have to educate the
10:00:30 community.
10:00:31 Most of us know that all the communities have gone
10:00:33 through this the first time, referendum.
10:00:40 We have a lot of work to do and you have to get the
10:00:42 private sector really involved and push this.

10:00:45 So I think your job is cut out, the elected officials
10:00:50 job is cut out to be involved, and all the
10:00:53 municipalities, if we want this to become a reality,
10:00:56 and it can be done.
10:00:58 I believe when we set our minds to do anything to
10:01:03 accomplish we can get it done.
10:01:04 So I'm pretty excited about what has been put on the
10:01:06 table.
10:01:06 It's a matter of just getting that referendum on the
10:01:09 ballot, getting it passed and getting the voters
10:01:12 educated about light rail, and about transportation.
10:01:16 >>> Absolutely.
10:01:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: With that being said, and
10:01:21 congratulations on your appointment and thanks for
10:01:22 being here today.
10:01:23 >>> Thanks.
10:01:24 I appreciate your opportunity.
10:01:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Onward.
10:01:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We are going to take up item 74 real
10:01:30 quick because we have the Planning Commission here.
10:01:32 Let's get that out of the way.
10:01:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: This is set for second public hearing

10:01:43 adoption.
10:01:43 Need to open the public hearing.
10:01:45 >> So moved.
10:01:45 >> Second.
10:01:46 (Motion carried).
10:01:47 >>JULIA COLE: The legal department is requesting this
10:01:50 item be continued.
10:01:51 As you may recall at the first reading public hearing,
10:01:53 Mr. Fletcher identified there were some outstanding
10:01:56 issues relating to some pending litigation that the
10:01:59 city attorney's office believes should be kept
10:02:01 separate and apart from the comprehensive plan update
10:02:03 a approval.
10:02:05 However, we were able to have a conference call,
10:02:08 settlement conference call with DCA and these property
10:02:11 owners relating to map amendment, subject of
10:02:14 litigation yesterday, and it appears that there's a
10:02:17 possibility we can resolve all issues relating to
10:02:23 Comprehensive plan update and the pending litigation.
10:02:26 So we believe there are opportunities there and it's
10:02:30 worth a two week continuance.
10:02:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What's the date you are requesting?

10:02:33 >>> February 2nd.
10:02:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 9:30 a.m.
10:02:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do we have a second?
10:02:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Godspeed.
10:02:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
10:02:51 So moved.
10:02:51 Thank you.
10:02:52 Are there any requests for legislative matters for
10:02:54 reconsideration?
10:02:55 Any items, anyone here to request reconsideration of a
10:03:00 legislative matter?
10:03:03 Councilman Dingfelder, item 4.
10:03:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe by council's motion that
10:03:09 has been continued to February 5th.
10:03:13 Is that correct, madam clerk?
10:03:14 Thank you.
10:03:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do we need to take action on that?
10:03:17 No action on that.
10:03:18 Okay.
10:03:19 Let's go to our committee reports, public safety,
10:03:22 Councilwoman Gwen Miller.
10:03:23 >>GWEN MILLER: I move resolutions 5 through 11.

10:03:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
10:03:33 (Motion carried)
10:03:38 We move then to parks and recreation.
10:03:42 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:03:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I forgot to ask for this to be
10:03:48 pulled previously, but I would really like staff to be
10:03:52 able to discuss number 17 before we move it.
10:03:56 So I would like to move resolutions 12 through 16 and
10:03:59 18 through 19.
10:04:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And we are pulling item 17 for staff
10:04:04 to appear on that one.
10:04:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
10:04:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion and second by councilman
10:04:09 Dingfelder.
10:04:10 (Motion carried).
10:04:15 Public Works Committee, councilman Dingfelder.
10:04:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move items 20, substitute, 20
10:04:29 through 25, 27, 28, 29 we did earlier.
10:04:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:04:42 (Motion carried).
10:04:50 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to move items 30
10:05:00 through 43.

10:05:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 43 the resolution is prepared.
10:05:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The resolution is prepared.
10:05:07 Thank you.
10:05:08 Then building and zoning by councilman Caetano.
10:05:11 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to move items 44
10:05:14 through 55.
10:05:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:05:22 (Motion carried)
10:05:25 Transportation committee, councilman John Dingfelder.
10:05:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move items 56 through 66.
10:05:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:05:40 (Motion carried).
10:05:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just want to note special events
10:05:47 around Gasparilla. It's a very interesting city
10:05:52 because we have got Gasparilla, the pirates invading,
10:05:55 and then we have the Pure Poet's Society on item 66 so
10:06:00 we have all sorts of things going on.
10:06:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, thank you.
10:06:04 Motion set for public hearing item 67 through 69.
10:06:13 >> So moved.
10:06:14 >> Second.
10:06:14 (Motion carried)

10:06:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have our second readings.
10:06:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 70 through 73.
10:06:31 If you would like to swear witnesses.
10:06:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Those addressing council, please stand
10:06:35 and be sworn at this time.
10:06:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open 70 through 73.
10:06:47 >> Second.
10:06:48 (Motion carried).
10:06:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe there's been items that
10:06:52 have been available for public inspection in council's
10:06:54 office.
10:06:54 I would ask those be received and filed by motion,
10:06:56 please.
10:06:57 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
10:07:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:07:00 (Motion carried)
10:07:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 70.
10:07:06 Anyone wishing to address council on item 70.
10:07:09 >> Move to close.
10:07:12 >> Second.
10:07:12 (Motion carried).
10:07:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Miller.

10:07:16 >>GWEN MILLER: I move an ordinance for second reading,
10:07:19 an ordinance approving an historic preservation
10:07:22 property tax exemption application relative to the
10:07:25 restoration, renovation and rehabilitation of certain
10:07:28 property owned by David and Mary Heise, located at
10:07:33 1821 Richardson place, Tampa, Florida based upon
10:07:36 certain findings, providing for notice to the property
10:07:38 appraiser of Hillsborough County, providing for
10:07:40 severability, providing for repeal of all ordinances
10:07:42 in conflict, providing an effective date.
10:07:48 >> Record your vote, please.
10:07:50 Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
10:08:00 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.
10:08:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 71.
10:08:04 Anyone wishing to address council on item 71?
10:08:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:08:09 >> Second.
10:08:09 (Motion carried).
10:08:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move the following
10:08:13 ordinance for second reading and adoption, an
10:08:15 ordinance vacating, closing, discontinuing, and
10:08:17 abandoning a certain right-of-way a portion of O'Brien

10:08:20 street lying north of Kennedy Boulevard south of
10:08:22 interstate 275, east of Hoover Boulevard, and west of
10:08:25 Sherill street in Tampania subdivision, a subdivision
10:08:29 located in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County,
10:08:30 Florida, the same being more fully described in
10:08:32 section 2 hereof providing an effective date.
10:08:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Miller.
10:08:40 Councilman Dingfelder?
10:08:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I see on the agenda that councilman
10:08:45 Caetano and myself were absent at the vote that day.
10:08:50 And can anybody refresh or remind me -- it looks like
10:08:58 it got the support of council.
10:09:00 And council is pretty tight on vacating, tough on
10:09:03 vacating.
10:09:04 Any recollection?
10:09:11 All right, I'll take a leap of faith and seeing that
10:09:15 Mrs. Saul-Sena and others scrutinize this carefully,
10:09:17 we usually have the same philosophy on vacating.
10:09:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just remember that it wasn't
10:09:23 objectionable.
10:09:24 I don't remember that there was any discussion kind of
10:09:28 backed up to the interstate.

10:09:36 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone) it was a dead-end.
10:09:47 It didn't lead to anything.
10:09:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
10:10:00 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried westbound Miranda being
10:10:02 absent.
10:10:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 72.
10:10:03 Anyone wishing to address council on item 72?
10:10:06 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
10:10:08 Item number 72 on your agenda and item 73 both require
10:10:12 certified site plans.
10:10:14 I do have those site plans certified by the zoning
10:10:16 administrator and will be providing them to the clerk.
10:10:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:10:22 Anyone else wish to address council?
10:10:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:10:27 >> Second.
10:10:27 (Motion carried).
10:10:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 72.
10:10:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance for second reading,
10:10:35 an ordinance approving a special use permit S-2 for
10:10:38 alcoholic beverage sales small venue and making lawful
10:10:40 the sale of beverages containing alcohol of more than

10:10:43 1% by weight and not more than 14% by weight and wines
10:10:46 regardless of alcoholic content, beer and wine
10:10:49 2(COP-X) for consumption on the premises only at or
10:10:53 from that certain lot, plot or tract of land located
10:10:56 at 3751 east Fowler Avenue, Tampa, Florida, as more
10:11:00 particularly described in section 2 hereof, approving
10:11:02 waivers as set forth herein, waiving certain
10:11:05 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
10:11:07 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
10:11:10 conflict, providing an effective date.
10:11:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
10:11:18 >> Is that the Wingate hotel?
10:11:22 >> Yes.
10:11:22 Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:11:25 Record your vote.
10:11:30 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.
10:11:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 73.
10:11:33 Anyone wish to address council on item 73?
10:11:36 Item 73.
10:11:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
10:11:40 >> Second.
10:11:41 (Motion carried).

10:11:45 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like -- if you could remind me
10:11:53 what that was.
10:11:57 Anyone.
10:11:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Abbye?
10:12:04 >>ABBYE FEELEY: This is in the Channel District,
10:12:07 Stoltenberg project, multifamily, and now they are
10:12:10 rezoning it to multifamily again for larger amount of
10:12:16 multifamily units including artist studios located
10:12:23 along Meridian.
10:12:25 >> Did we work out the dumpster issue?
10:12:28 >> Yes.
10:12:29 That's the one where -- they are going to be using for
10:12:36 the design in the park area.
10:12:37 >> Maybe somebody else could read those.
10:12:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
10:12:44 >> On second reading, an ordinance from 1105 and 1115
10:12:55 Twiggs Street in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
10:12:57 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
10:12:59 district classifications CD-3 Channel District,
10:13:02 residential, multifamily, to CD Channel District,
10:13:06 residential, multifamily, providing an effective date.
10:13:09 We are changing it from CD-3, Channel District,

10:13:14 residential multifamily, to CD-2, Channel District,
10:13:17 residential, multifamily, providing an effective date.
10:13:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You would like the motion to adopt.
10:13:24 Is that correct?
10:13:25 Do you have the ordinance?
10:13:28 The ordinance might be correct.
10:13:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was reading off the agenda.
10:13:44 >>> The ordinance is correct.
10:13:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Seconded by councilman Caetano. Record
10:13:50 your vote, please.
10:13:57 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent
10:13:59 and Mulhern voting no.
10:14:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 74, move to continue --
10:14:05 We took care of that already.
10:14:12 Public hearing on item 75 and 76.
10:14:17 >> Move to open.
10:14:18 >> Second.
10:14:18 (Motion carried).
10:14:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Swear in the witnesses, please, on 75
10:14:25 and 76.
10:14:28 (Oath administered by Clerk)
10:14:29 >>> 75 and 76 are two ad valorems that I would like to

10:14:37 show you this morning.
10:14:39 On the Elmo, I have the front elevation on the first
10:14:41 one, the address is 824 south Oregon Avenue.
10:14:47 This is prior to rehabilitation.
10:14:51 This had construction in 1921.
10:14:53 The owner is Joanne Valente.
10:14:56 If you look at the picture here, the house prior to
10:14:59 rehabilitation as I stated.
10:15:00 You see it has asymmetrical doors to the side.
10:15:05 It has asphalt shingle roof.
10:15:10 After rehabilitation.
10:15:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Wow.
10:15:13 >>> Our research showed this was the appropriate and
10:15:16 the original placement of the door.
10:15:18 There was some discussion that after rehabilitation,
10:15:23 they put a metal roof on the structure as well.
10:15:29 Moving to the interior, this is the interior door.
10:15:36 It was in a deteriorated state that could not be
10:15:39 repaired.
10:15:40 And if you look above, it has a transom that was
10:15:43 closed shut, throughout the rehabilitation.
10:15:45 They worked on the front door to find a more

10:15:48 appropriate door which is evident here, and then the
10:15:53 transom was worked free, and a feature of the
10:15:58 structure.
10:15:59 Once again, this is prior to rehabilitation.
10:16:02 You see the fireplace here, the wood floors, and then
10:16:07 the entry into a sun room.
10:16:14 This is the same shot, refurbished fireplace.
10:16:19 These are pine floors that were kept.
10:16:22 You see the casings around the door openings.
10:16:24 And the baseboards.
10:16:27 And then as you enter into the sun room, after
10:16:31 rehabilitation, and just one more shot showing how the
10:16:35 sensitivity was kept with the trim around all the door
10:16:39 openings, and the smooth textured walls, and the wood
10:16:44 floors.
10:16:45 This rehabilitation does meet the Secretary of
10:16:47 Interior standards for rehabilitation.
10:16:52 And that was item 75.
10:16:59 Should I go to 76?
10:17:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to make a comment.
10:17:02 The tax incentives that we are going to be voting on
10:17:04 today result in so much private sector -- they don't

10:17:09 result, they inspire so much private sector
10:17:12 reinvestment.
10:17:13 I think it's one of the smartest public policies we
10:17:16 have.
10:17:19 And under new business today, I am going to ask
10:17:22 council to endorse the idea under the federal stimulus
10:17:24 package of encouraging the vote, incentives be
10:17:30 increased, because there's nothing greener in the
10:17:32 world than keeping an existing structure, and making
10:17:34 it nicer, bringing it back to its original design is a
10:17:38 real gift to the neighborhood, and these pictures that
10:17:40 you share with us are really inspiring.
10:17:42 >>> I agree.
10:17:44 Thank you.
10:17:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is a public hearing.
10:17:47 Anyone wish to address council on item 75? Anyone
10:17:49 wish to address?
10:17:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:17:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:17:53 (Motion carried).
10:17:54 >>GWEN MILLER: An ordinance approving a historic
10:17:59 preservation property tax exemption application

10:18:03 relative to the restoration, renovation or
10:18:06 rehabilitation of certain property owned by Joanne
10:18:09 Myer Valenti, trustee, located at 824 south Oregon
10:18:14 Avenue, Tampa, Florida, based upon certain findings,
10:18:16 providing for notice to the property appraiser of
10:18:19 Hillsborough County, providing for severability,
10:18:20 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
10:18:23 providing an effective date.
10:18:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded by
10:18:26 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:18:27 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:18:31 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent,
10:18:34 Dingfelder and Caetano being absent at vote.
10:18:36 Second reading and adoption will be on February
10:18:38 5th at 9:30.
10:18:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 76.
10:18:41 >>> 76 on the Elmo, I have the front elevation prior
10:18:46 to rehabilitation.
10:18:47 This address is 1714 Richardson place.
10:18:49 The owners Lomel and Meyer Lowell Lomel.
10:19:02 It's a 1920s style bungalow. They had inappropriate
10:19:06 railings that were attached to the building sometime

10:19:08 prior to the rehabilitation.
10:19:11 It had an asphalt roof as well.
10:19:14 After rehabilitation, the ballast was removed.
10:19:20 The dormers were extended to let in natural light into
10:19:23 the second story to have a more livable second story,
10:19:26 and then has a metal roof.
10:19:30 Moving to the interior, this is a close-up of the wood
10:19:32 flooring.
10:19:33 This is also hardwood pine flooring that was
10:19:37 refurbished, which is evident after rehabilitation
10:19:40 here.
10:19:42 Another feature of the house with the ceilings and the
10:19:46 public spaces, using these ceilings are either of
10:19:50 natural wood or painted white.
10:19:53 And the owner chose to take it back in this manner
10:19:59 here to renovate them, repair when needed and repaint
10:20:04 them white.
10:20:05 And then lastly the photos.
10:20:07 There was a renovation in the early 70s that showed
10:20:10 the second -- railing to the second floor in this
10:20:15 manner.
10:20:17 And after rehabilitation.

10:20:22 And that concludes the presentation for the ad valorem
10:20:25 for number 76.
10:20:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Public hearing.
10:20:28 Anyone wish to address council on item 76?
10:20:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
10:20:34 >> Second.
10:20:34 (Motion carried).
10:20:35 >> LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like to move the following
10:20:38 ordinance presented for first reading, an ordinance
10:20:40 approving a historic preservation property tax
10:20:42 exemption application relative to the restoration,
10:20:45 renovation or rehabilitation of a certain property
10:20:48 owned by Charles P. Lomel, Jr., and Meyer Lowell Lomel
10:20:55 located at 1714 west Richardson place, Tampa, Florida
10:20:58 based upon certain findings, providing for notice to
10:21:00 the property appraiser of Hillsborough County,
10:21:04 providing for severability, providing for repeal of all
10:21:06 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
10:21:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:21:12 (Motion carried).
10:21:14 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent,
10:21:16 Dingfelder and Caetano being absent at vote.

10:21:18 Second reading and adoption will be February 5th
10:21:21 at 9:30.
10:21:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We move to our 10:30 items.
10:21:32 Item 77.
10:21:37 Mr. Fletcher.
10:21:37 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Chip Fletcher, city attorney.
10:21:41 I'm here to respond to the request for clarification
10:21:48 on council's previous directive to allocate 50% of
10:21:53 special assessment dollars to be used for pedestrian
10:21:56 transit and bicycle lane.
10:21:57 I'm assuming that's supposed to be lane improvements.
10:22:03 We went back and looked at the DRI, and there's really
10:22:07 no limitation on the use of those funds for these
10:22:10 types of activities.
10:22:14 Our review of those special assessment dollars are to
10:22:19 address residential impacts caused by development
10:22:22 within that district, and there's no indication right
10:22:24 now on the use of those dollars for bike or pedestrian
10:22:32 projects.
10:22:34 Transit, supposedly corrected a neighborhood impact to
10:22:39 use for transit as well.
10:22:42 And I'm not quite sure, the 50% would actually limit

10:22:45 the ability to use those funds for those purposes as
10:22:48 opposed to increasing.
10:22:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you so much for your
10:22:56 research.
10:22:57 I have a funny anecdote, and then I will get to the
10:23:00 plan.
10:23:00 The anecdote is my daughter once asked if it's a law
10:23:03 that all mothers wear black bathing suits.
10:23:07 And I said, No, darling, it not a law, it's a custom.
10:23:11 Similarly in Westshore, we spend all our impact fee
10:23:16 dollars on roadways, but it isn't a law, it's a
10:23:18 custom.
10:23:21 >> I'm sorry, we have two issues, the assessments and
10:23:24 impact fees. And those are different.
10:23:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: These are the assessments.
10:23:27 >>> I just described the assessments.
10:23:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's custom that we spent it in the
10:23:31 these other ways.
10:23:32 Correct.
10:23:33 We spend it on roadways.
10:23:40 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: The way the DRI is set up, there's
10:23:42 a committee that the Westshore alliance has that

10:23:45 reviews and makes recommendations to the city on how
10:23:48 to use those funds.
10:23:49 I'm told that we typically follow those
10:23:51 recommendations and we do use those assessments in
10:23:53 that way.
10:23:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The point you made to us is we are
10:23:57 not precluded in spending our -- from spending our
10:24:01 dollars on pedestrian improvements, for example.
10:24:02 >> For the assessment.
10:24:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Correct.
10:24:08 We are going to be getting a presentation at our first
10:24:11 meeting in February, a pedestrian plan for Westshore,
10:24:13 that they had wanted to see happen.
10:24:16 And my point being that working in conjunction with
10:24:20 the Westshore alliance, that we can direct spending
10:24:24 these assessment dollars toward the pedestrian
10:24:26 improvements that are identified in the plans.
10:24:29 >>> Yes, in fact, I would suggest that we don't
10:24:32 actually make that decision.
10:24:34 They make that decision through their committee, and
10:24:37 then the city considers those, and my understanding is
10:24:41 we typically follow those recommendations.

10:24:45 Transportation or public works, we need to talk about
10:24:47 those situations where they have them, but they are
10:24:50 the ones who under that agreement typically make those
10:24:54 recommendations.
10:24:55 So I'm a little bit at a loss I'm afraid to kind of
10:25:01 get to what the core issue is.
10:25:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The core issue is that in addition
10:25:05 to spending the special assessment dollars this way, I
10:25:11 meant to ask, can't we spend some of our
10:25:13 transportation impact dollars?
10:25:16 >>> That's a different issue.
10:25:17 Transportation impact dollars have to go to mitigate
10:25:22 the impact of transportation cost based upon an impact
10:25:29 fee study.
10:25:30 We have would have to go back and do a study to
10:25:32 demonstrate that transit and pedestrian and invite
10:25:37 improvements were actually taking care of the
10:25:40 transportation impacts that were occurring as a result
10:25:42 of development.
10:25:45 I know we don't have one on the books now.
10:25:47 I don't know if we are in the process of developing
10:25:49 one.

10:25:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why are we required to do a study?
10:25:52 >>> Because that's -- impact fees cannot be -- let's
10:26:00 see the nicest way to say this.
10:26:01 In order not to be illegal need to be demonstrated
10:26:08 they go to mitigate or address the impact which you
10:26:11 are asking that the developer pay for.
10:26:18 That's in state statute.
10:26:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: When I posed this question, you
10:26:21 came back with a response to today, I realize that I
10:26:25 didn't pose it properly.
10:26:28 But I'm happy to have this answer.
10:26:29 This answer is great.
10:26:30 But I really need to know if we can't spend our
10:26:33 transportation impact dollars, and what you are saying
10:26:36 is we need to do a study.
10:26:38 Therefore, I would like to move that we immediately
10:26:46 set about doing a study to see if -- to identify the
10:26:50 potential capture for addressing our transportation
10:26:56 issues in the Westshore area by investing in
10:26:59 sidewalks, bicycle lanes, transit stops.
10:27:05 >>> Council could request the administration to do
10:27:09 that.

10:27:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That is my request.
10:27:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll second it.
10:27:14 I guess would we start with the Westshore folks, Ron
10:27:21 Rotella's group, and see how we could fund that study?
10:27:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Rotella has wanted this for a
10:27:28 very long time.
10:27:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.
10:27:30 But what I'm saying is we need to figure out --
10:27:34 facilitate money to do that study.
10:27:37 So is it general budget money?
10:27:39 Is it Westshore money?
10:27:40 Is it Westshore assessment money that we can use to
10:27:44 fund that?
10:27:44 Maybe we need to talk to Ron to see where the best
10:27:47 place is to get that money to do the study.
10:27:51 I support it.
10:27:52 I'm just saying --
10:27:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think we can do two things.
10:27:55 We can request the administration get together with
10:27:58 the Westshore alliance, discuss it and report back to
10:28:01 council in 30 days.
10:28:02 And appear and report back to us in 30 days on this.

10:28:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the motion as I understand, to
10:28:10 request administration take a look at this issue, to
10:28:12 meet with the Westshore alliance, to do a study.
10:28:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A transportation study, with an eye
10:28:18 toward being able to use our transportation impact
10:28:20 dollars toward investing in pedestrian improvements,
10:28:25 bicycle improvements and transit improvements, in
10:28:28 addition to how we have always spent the money which
10:28:30 is just on roads.
10:28:31 And I would like to add as a codicil to that, the new
10:28:36 development that's being created in front of
10:28:39 International Plaza is absolutely, I don't believe --
10:28:45 I'll discuss that later.
10:28:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
10:28:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The maker of the motion, is it
10:28:52 requested to the Westshore area?
10:28:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, specifically, because
10:28:56 Westshore has this pedestrian plan that we are going
10:28:58 to be hearing about at the beginning of February.
10:29:00 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: And just so I'm clear, what the
10:29:03 city needs to do is meet the statutory requirements
10:29:10 that would allow us to determine the trips and

10:29:13 transportation activities are going to be offset for
10:29:17 these activities.
10:29:17 This may be a first in the state.
10:29:20 I'm not aware.
10:29:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Miami spends significantly more
10:29:29 money on things other than widening roads.
10:29:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have a motion.
10:29:33 You want that to come back in 30 days?
10:29:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, and a staff person.
10:29:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have a second by -- second by
10:29:40 councilman Dingfelder.
10:29:42 (Motion carried).
10:29:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a question, Mr. Fletcher.
10:29:47 Mrs. Saul-Sena brings up a good point.
10:29:49 And then you elaborated.
10:29:51 You said the Westshore committee, citizens committee
10:29:54 or whatever it is, gets together and makes
10:29:55 recommendations, they bring that to the city, and then
10:29:58 the city puts together the final approval or plan for
10:30:06 the expenditure of those assessment funds.
10:30:08 I think that's what you said.
10:30:10 Something along those lines.

10:30:11 >>> That's the way the agreement reads.
10:30:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Does it ever come to council?
10:30:16 I think that's part of Mrs. Saul-Sena's frustration,
10:30:19 is if it's just an administrative decision and doesn't
10:30:23 come to council, and then none of the money ever gets
10:30:27 spent on, you know, bikes, pedestrian, or transit,
10:30:33 then we never get there.
10:30:34 So do you know?
10:30:38 >>> The agreement is silent on that issue.
10:30:40 Typically under the charter when an agreement or
10:30:42 statute is silent on that, it would typically go to
10:30:45 the administration.
10:30:48 I can go back and since the agreement doesn't say, I
10:30:53 would have to find out what our active practice has
10:30:56 been here.
10:30:57 >> Let us know that in 30 days when we hear back on
10:30:59 this other issue.
10:31:00 >>> Okay.
10:31:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 78.
10:31:05 Administration to appear for the report on feasibility
10:31:08 and cost of installing bike lanes along Platt Street.
10:31:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I don't see our staff.

10:31:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There he is.
10:31:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 78.
10:31:20 >> Good morning.
10:31:24 I was asked to come to you all and we provided a
10:31:29 report that I hope you have copies and have had an
10:31:34 opportunity to take a look at that.
10:31:36 And to address your issue, I think it's been discussed
10:31:40 this morning already regarding bicycle lanes, and
10:31:43 accommodation of bicycles.
10:31:49 >>> Irvin Lee, Public Works director.
10:31:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can I speak to this, Mr. Chairman?
10:31:57 >> Yes.
10:31:58 >>> If I could, as we identified in the
10:32:01 correspondence, it helps us set priorities that match
10:32:09 with our resurfacing, our repaving plan.
10:32:13 Basically, the greenways and trails plan.
10:32:21 That master plan again is adopted as part of the
10:32:27 comprehensive plan as -- and you all are aware.
10:32:35 What we would like to do, respond to the question.
10:32:38 Our overriding concern is obviously safety.
10:32:40 And we want to make sure as we integrate bicycles that
10:32:45 when do so in a way that again meets the technical

10:32:51 requirements of roadways but also doesn't create
10:32:55 expectations that obviously facilities at this time
10:32:59 don't meet.
10:33:00 Now, we want to ensure that wove continuity and
10:33:05 connectivity, but at the same time we want to do this
10:33:08 in a way that is safe with the limited resources.
10:33:19 If you look around the area, where we have bun done
10:33:25 major construction projects, using Manhattan, for
10:33:28 example, we use the other areas that also assist us,
10:33:32 that we work together on our roadway systems, and
10:33:36 FDOT, you will notice Tampa street, when they redid
10:33:40 Tampa street, bike facilities, bike accommodations,
10:33:45 and we also do that when we have a wider outside
10:33:49 travel lane.
10:33:51 We have 14-foot travel lanes, for example, on Himes,
10:33:55 and even though we accommodate bicycles in that area,
10:34:00 that was done as part of a maintenance effort, not a
10:34:03 construction program.
10:34:04 So I will be happy to answer your questions.
10:34:09 I take it that you have many.
10:34:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think to be clear, Mr. Lee, based on
10:34:15 your report, is pretty much, one is you don't have

10:34:21 enough resources, you need additional funding based on
10:34:23 the Platt Street, what you are saying, on Cleveland
10:34:28 saying not feasible, and then on Himes Avenue, point
10:34:32 out Columbus it's already been done, outside travel
10:34:40 lane is provided on Himes.
10:34:43 Is that accurate?
10:34:44 >>> That's correct.
10:34:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you very much for coming down
10:34:46 here today, Mr. Lee.
10:34:48 I would like to call up editorials of the MPO, our
10:34:54 bicycle coordinator of the having safe bicycling in
10:34:57 the City of Tampa is really a philosophical question
10:35:02 by the city, do we want to create an opportunity for
10:35:06 people to ride safely, not just for recreation.
10:35:10 You cited the Tampa greenway and trails study.
10:35:14 And that was developed by our parks and rec department
10:35:17 for recreational riding.
10:35:19 What we are looking at now, big picture, city-wide, is
10:35:23 a philosophical shift.
10:35:25 We want to do -- we want to create opportunities for
10:35:29 Tampa citizens to safely ride as commuters, as
10:35:34 neighbors, and we need to create a system for that,

10:35:38 and we need to, as you identified, create the
10:35:41 resources to accomplish that.
10:35:42 But we also need to look into this exciting idea --
10:35:52 council under new business is going to set a special
10:35:54 discussion workshop.
10:35:55 But I would like to hear from Gina with bicycle and
10:36:00 pedestrian coordinator of the MPO, if you could come
10:36:02 to the mike, Gina, and address the questions, the
10:36:06 points that Mr. Lee included in his discussion where
10:36:11 he said that these streets were not included in the
10:36:15 MPO's transit plan.
10:36:17 Could you speak to that, please, and explain how we
10:36:19 develop the transit plan and what it addresses?
10:36:22 >>> Gina Torres, with the MPO metropolitan planning
10:36:26 organization.
10:36:29 I will step up on my soap box for a couple of minutes
10:36:32 because I think it's important to know that bicycling
10:36:34 is permitted on every roadway in our county except for
10:36:38 limited access highways.
10:36:41 Cyclists will ride there whether we consider doing
10:36:44 such a thing or not because they are living, working,
10:36:47 accessing transit.

10:36:49 I see the numbers of bikes on buses.
10:36:55 These are people who have no means or limited means of
10:36:57 transportation and they are out there all over.
10:36:59 I'm a cyclist by choice but I also take the roadways
10:37:04 as the most direct route.
10:37:06 So whether or not we would feel comfortable on a road,
10:37:10 even if there is a good parallel route, you are ending
10:37:13 up having to ride on that road.
10:37:14 Legally you are allowed to be there. So when we talk
10:37:16 about safety, safety doesn't mean let's exclude the
10:37:19 cyclists.
10:37:25 It just allows the people that are cycle there legally
10:37:29 to have a stripe.
10:37:31 A wide outside lane is no longer considered a priority
10:37:35 when providing a bike facility.
10:37:40 It says cars don't cross this line and is so much
10:37:45 safer.
10:37:45 It's a treatment that sometimes that's the only choice
10:37:47 you have.
10:37:47 But if there is a four-lane road, let's say, on Himes
10:37:51 and it has a 14-foot outside lane, reduce a foot or
10:37:56 two to allow there to be a site.

10:38:01 Cyclists are saying if you can't fit the bike lane,
10:38:08 there's also -- about these particular roads, and I
10:38:11 didn't have a chance to see it but I'm very familiar
10:38:14 with Kennedy and Cleveland as well.
10:38:17 I have been in this position for 15 years and my first
10:38:22 e-mails to City Council, and at the time commissioner
10:38:26 Turanchik started the bike lane.
10:38:51 It's been adopted into the long range plan because
10:38:53 that's been updated now.
10:39:09 We note Kennedy from Howard Frankland all the way to
10:39:13 Ashley but we recommend Cleveland and Platt as an
10:39:17 alternative.
10:39:18 I would be happy to work with staff to show them.
10:39:22 We put out the adoption of our comprehensive plan
10:39:24 until the first meeting in February.
10:39:27 Can you get that to Gina -- to Julia Cole so when we
10:39:33 adopt our comprehensive plan it can include the new
10:39:36 bicycle paths in it?
10:39:38 >> I think that's really important.
10:39:41 And I think that transportation staff had noted that
10:39:44 maybe the greenways and trails aren't the best
10:39:46 reference because it's a recreational.

10:39:49 But I think that --
10:39:51 >> Well, the question becomes now, though, and I don't
10:39:54 know, you may have to speak to that, because I thought
10:39:56 we were on our way, really approve the day, and so I
10:40:03 don't know what impact it's going to have now legal on
10:40:06 our public hearing, that we start that process over
10:40:08 what?
10:40:11 >>> I would have to look at what the specific changes
10:40:13 are, but unless it's responsive to the ORC report from
10:40:18 DCA, we wouldn't be able to put it in at this point,
10:40:21 and between first and second reading.
10:40:23 We could have a notice problem.
10:40:30 >> We can do an addendum after the fact or adopt it as
10:40:33 a support document the way we are changing our
10:40:35 transportation --
10:40:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think everybody is missing the
10:40:40 point.
10:40:41 Can I just say something?
10:40:42 It says right here the greenways and trails master
10:40:45 plan is the guide for determining whether bike
10:40:49 lanes -- this is the reference document identified in
10:40:51 the Tampa comprehensive plan.

10:40:53 So it's a subdocument.
10:40:56 So I think, Gina, the Tampa Greenways trail master
10:41:06 plan, Irv indicates, does not have any proposed bike
10:41:09 facility.
10:41:10 We can change that without messing with the actual
10:41:12 comprehensive plan, because all it is is it's
10:41:14 referenced in the comprehensive plan as a source
10:41:17 document.
10:41:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, exactly.
10:41:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So I don't think it's as difficult
10:41:22 or complicated as we want to make it.
10:41:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We still have to rely on the city
10:41:27 attorney to make sure we legally, in all due respect,
10:41:33 we have to hear from him.
10:41:34 If he says we can't do it, we can't do it and that's
10:41:37 what we have to go on.
10:41:39 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I think we'll have to take some
10:41:40 time and figure out how best to do.
10:41:42 This I don't think we can realistically put it in
10:41:44 second reading.
10:41:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Fine.
10:41:47 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We can figure out some way to do

10:41:49 that. If we do amend the comprehensive plan, I think
10:41:51 we need to do that in the next cycle but based on what
10:41:55 I'm hearing, that may not be necessary.
10:41:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We don't need to amend our plan
10:41:58 because our plan clearly states that Tampa should be a
10:42:02 bicycle-friendly city, and the biggest issue that Mr.
10:42:06 Lee identified is committing the resources.
10:42:09 But it's parallel with committing the resources, but
10:42:12 it's also saying that we assume, every time we improve
10:42:17 a roadway with resurfacing, or maintenance, that we
10:42:24 include bike lanes.
10:42:25 The state does it.
10:42:28 The county does it.
10:42:29 And the city has not yet done this.
10:42:30 And I think it's a shift in what we can do.
10:42:34 I think Mr. Lee has something to address on that.
10:42:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I had a question, also, when you
10:42:42 are done.
10:42:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess he's trying to find out what
10:42:50 your question is.
10:42:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My question is, we don't -- it's my
10:42:54 observation based on the roads that we are discussing

10:42:56 when we improve them to resurfacing or something, we
10:42:58 don't say putting a bike lane as part of our thinking.
10:43:04 >>> Where we can, we do.
10:43:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, we don't do as much as we
10:43:08 could so if you have additional resources could you do
10:43:10 more?
10:43:11 >>> Yes, because the challenge -- maintenance versus
10:43:15 construction, you highlighted that.
10:43:21 When you need to add a bike lane and you want to
10:43:24 ensure continuity, you don't want to drop off a bike
10:43:27 lane, for example, at an intersection where the
10:43:29 alignment is not appropriate.
10:43:30 That changes your project from maintenance to
10:43:32 construction.
10:43:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm talking about restriping.
10:43:36 >>> And what I'm talking about is, it is not as simple
10:43:40 as just going in the existing lanes and adding new
10:43:46 lanes.
10:43:46 It is -- and we try to articulate that in our
10:43:51 correspondence.
10:43:52 It's not that simple.
10:43:53 You don't just go down and add an additional stripe

10:43:58 and call that a bike lane.
10:44:01 As Gina mentioned, that 4-foot accommodation is a part
10:44:06 of the entire system, where we are connecting an
10:44:10 existing roadway, or establishing new lines where
10:44:16 previously they did not exist.
10:44:18 So it is not just putting a stripe on the side of the
10:44:24 road.
10:44:24 >> Maybe we can look at how they accomplish this in
10:44:26 Broward.
10:44:26 And then we have a workshop at the end of --
10:44:33 >>> Be glad to do that.
10:44:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Irvin, going through your memo, and
10:44:38 I want to just talk about some specifics.
10:44:40 Platt Street looks like it might be doable.
10:44:43 You say that at the end of your memo.
10:44:46 By 2013 you are looking to pave Platt anyway, from
10:44:50 Howard to Bayshore, and you indicate some optimism --
10:44:59 >>> Funding.
10:44:59 >> Well, it says costs haven't been estimated,
10:45:01 coordinate with MPO.
10:45:03 I'm saying it looks like there's a note of optimism
10:45:06 about Platt Street.

10:45:07 >>> Absolutely.
10:45:08 >> That's one direction.
10:45:11 You wouldn't put it both ways on Platt because Platt
10:45:14 is one way.
10:45:14 >>> That's why we looked at the discussion to include
10:45:18 Cleveland.
10:45:19 >> So yes.
10:45:22 >>> When we do this, continuity, connectivity, as part
10:45:26 of the system, you don't want to drop someone --
10:45:32 >> Let me finish.
10:45:33 So what I'm saying, I know know that you and Gina, and
10:45:37 especially Gina because she does all these different
10:45:40 plans, that we can now fix the greenways trail thing
10:45:45 to incorporate these bikeways so there's no caveat
10:45:49 which is how you open up and say it's not on the
10:45:52 greenways trail plan.
10:45:54 So if we need to go by that, then we'll fix that.
10:45:56 Okay.
10:45:57 So once we fix that, then it looks like maybe we can
10:46:00 get Platt going 2013 is reasonable.
10:46:02 And if we are putting all that money into paving it
10:46:05 and restriping it and everything else, seems like that

10:46:08 might be feasible.
10:46:09 Now that gets us to where does that take to us
10:46:12 Cleveland?
10:46:13 Cleveland it sounds like we have a problem because
10:46:15 it's just been resurfaced 2004, 2006, which means it
10:46:19 will be another 50 years before it gets resurfaced
10:46:22 based on our city cycle.
10:46:24 So then we mention the other problem, which is we have
10:46:26 got some failing city utility pipes, wastewater and
10:46:30 stormwater that failed.
10:46:31 Now, we allow cars to drive on Cleveland, because I
10:46:35 drive up and down there every day.
10:46:36 Even though we have some failed piping.
10:46:38 Why is it we wouldn't allow bikes to do it, based upon
10:46:42 that piping notation?
10:46:46 Do you see where I'm at?
10:46:47 >>> Right.
10:46:48 >> On page 3, it says there's the depression in the
10:46:53 street surface.
10:46:54 >>> We would want to include the repairs, to give a
10:47:01 reasonably --
10:47:02 >> My point is sometimes things like that will keep us

10:47:04 from making progress, because then if we have to go
10:47:08 back and tell utilities guys, and they'll say, well,
10:47:11 that's on the ten year plan, so it will be another ten
10:47:13 years before we can fix those pipes, so therefore we
10:47:16 can't do the striping.
10:47:17 So I'm just saying maybe we can just ignore those dips
10:47:19 in the road or pits and little -- put some little
10:47:23 warning signs up and that sort of thing.
10:47:25 As a matter of fact, you put little warning things out
10:47:27 on the Bayshore, where you have got uneven pavement
10:47:31 out on the Bayshore, your people have painted those
10:47:34 for pedestrians or bicycles and others to be aware of.
10:47:40 That downtown have the money to fix the whole
10:47:42 Bayshore, so you are painting your little warning
10:47:44 things.
10:47:44 So I think my point is, it just looks like -- I'm not
10:47:49 saying we can do this overnight, but I'm saying maybe
10:47:52 we can all just have a target of 2013 to do Platt and
10:47:55 Cleveland, if we all work together to get there, in a
10:47:58 process, then, you know, that's three years away.
10:48:03 I mean, is that something feasible?
10:48:09 >>> absolutely.

10:48:11 We can begin the dialogue.
10:48:12 The challenge as we talked about is with our limited
10:48:15 resources, we will do the best we can.
10:48:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay, but my point is, there's how
10:48:20 many MPO members here?
10:48:22 Raise your hand.
10:48:23 One, two, three.
10:48:24 Joe, I think you probably -- and MPO can assist with
10:48:27 us.
10:48:27 We talked at the MPO meeting.
10:48:29 I don't know if any of your staff was there.
10:48:31 We had this discussion and we can put it into the MPO
10:48:33 budget to assist the city to get back to this.
10:48:37 So we can all work together as different agencies to
10:48:40 fund this and make it happen.
10:48:41 But I think it would be a wonderful thing for the city
10:48:43 to have this nice long stretch of bike lane as really
10:48:49 the core to starting up bikes all over the city.
10:48:54 >>> Again, as you said, we want to make sure that
10:49:00 there is consistency between us when we identify the
10:49:04 priorities.
10:49:05 But where are we going to put our resources?

10:49:08 Limited though they may be, we need to make sure that
10:49:11 when one calls it a medium priority, obviously, you
10:49:15 all see it as a high priority, which is to synchronize
10:49:19 those.
10:49:19 >> Those things probably change over the years.
10:49:21 Okay.
10:49:22 Well, Linda, what was your suggestion about timing?
10:49:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That we are going to have a special
10:49:27 discussion workshop at the end of February on our
10:49:29 workshop day at 1:30 and discuss creating a more
10:49:32 bicycle friendly city.
10:49:33 But also as you are beginning to put together your
10:49:35 budget for this year, and you are hearing from council
10:49:38 that this is a priority, one lane -- one experience of
10:49:46 purchasing property to widen a road is a billion
10:49:51 trillion dollars.
10:49:52 Putting in stripes for bike lanes is modest.
10:49:55 I really encourage you to get bang for the buck.
10:49:59 And work with Gina and see if there are ways that we
10:50:02 can replicate what they have done that's been
10:50:04 successful.
10:50:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you both.

10:50:07 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to echo what Linda just said,
10:50:10 because with the economic climate we are in and the
10:50:14 change in administration, and I hope the emphasis on
10:50:21 green and sustainable, and also the emphasis, I think
10:50:25 that this administration is going to put on cities,
10:50:28 and livability of cities.
10:50:30 It's going to be different.
10:50:31 And I think that there is no question about whether
10:50:35 it's cheaper to grind down stripes and paint a new
10:50:40 stripe as opposed to widening a road, lane, asphalt.
10:50:44 So when we are thinking about being fiscally
10:50:48 conservative, I think bike lanes are the way to go as
10:50:52 opposed to, you know, trying to get cars, more cars on
10:50:56 the road.
10:50:56 And I think that's the debate we are going to be
10:50:59 having.
10:50:59 And I also think that we as a city need to work on
10:51:02 this.
10:51:03 We can't just, you know, expect that -- and I'm
10:51:08 talking to my colleagues here, not to you -- that the
10:51:11 federal government is suddenly going to fix
10:51:13 everything, since we have a friendlier city

10:51:19 administration that we need to push for it and we are
10:51:21 also not going to get any of those green dollars if we
10:51:25 don't start doing things and planning things that are
10:51:28 more sustainable and reducing our carbon output.
10:51:32 So I think we have to all start thinking a little
10:51:35 differently.
10:51:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to move to item 79 then
10:51:44 Item 79.
10:51:45 Administration to appear to report on the city
10:51:50 lobbying efforts, state legislature, how City Council
10:51:55 can assist in this effort.
10:51:56 Mr. Smith, chief of staff.?
10:52:00 >>DARRELL SMITH: Darrell Smith, chief of staff.
10:52:05 Coming earlier and listening to the comments, and the
10:52:08 last two items, I feel like there's a little bit of an
10:52:12 impression that there is concern or opposition on the
10:52:16 part of the administration to move forward toward
10:52:22 improving the bicycle capabilities within the city,
10:52:24 the pedestrian facilities within the city, and I
10:52:27 assure you that's not the case.
10:52:30 The mayor, the entire administration realizes the
10:52:32 importance of bicycles and pedestrians, in being a

10:52:40 bicycle pedestrian friendly city is certainly one of
10:52:43 our goals.
10:52:43 But we all have to keep in mind funding.
10:52:46 We have to keep in mind public safety.
10:52:48 And certainly we have to keep in mind the priorities
10:52:52 as we go forth with accomplishing those two goals.
10:52:55 And I'm sure we will continue to put priorities on
10:53:01 those as we move forward.
10:53:04 Item 79 as Chairman Scott mentioned talks in terms of
10:53:07 the city's lobbying efforts before the state
10:53:09 legislature and commenting on how City Council could
10:53:14 help in that effort.
10:53:18 And the city staff worked very closely with our
10:53:22 professional lobbyists in Tallahassee to provide
10:53:27 information to house and Senate members of the
10:53:29 legislature and proactively support passage of
10:53:35 legislative proposals that are in the best interest of
10:53:37 the city.
10:53:42 Also worked very closely with the lobbyist to monitor
10:53:45 proposed legislation that would adversely impact the
10:53:47 city, so that timely and appropriate actions could be
10:53:52 taken to amend the legislation or in fact if need be

10:53:57 to try to prevent the legislation from being filed or
10:53:59 from being passed.
10:54:02 In addition, city staff and our lobbyists worked with
10:54:05 the Florida League of Cities and other groups to
10:54:10 advocate our priorities, and maintain a united front
10:54:15 as we go forth and deal with the legislative sessions.
10:54:21 It's important to realize that we have very limited
10:54:23 funding, even in the lobbyist area.
10:54:28 And we have to prioritize our involvement.
10:54:30 We cannot reach out and get involved in a lot of the
10:54:34 activities that we would like to get involved in
10:54:37 Tallahassee due to the limited resources that we have,
10:54:41 and we have to make sure that our environment is
10:54:43 focused and targeted on relevant, practical and
10:54:47 important initiatives that have the greatest impact on
10:54:49 the city.
10:54:52 We also prioritize our efforts and focused on those
10:54:56 proposals of interest that are not already accurately
10:55:01 being covered by other organizations.
10:55:03 And by that I mean if the League of Cities already has
10:55:06 a very good lobbying effort for a particular proposal
10:55:11 that affects Tampa as well as other cities, then we

10:55:14 are going to monitor that rather than proactively get
10:55:16 involved, so that we don't extend resources when the
10:55:20 momentum has already been established.
10:55:24 As you know, the special session just finished last
10:55:27 week.
10:55:29 The legislators came up with 2.8 billion in cuts
10:55:34 during that special session.
10:55:37 From an overall standpoint, I think the City of Tampa
10:55:44 fared he very well.
10:55:46 Our primary area of interest was to protect our
10:55:49 housing funds, affordable housing funds in particular,
10:55:53 and the SHIP funding that we had allocated to the
10:55:59 city, except for possibly a 4% pro rata share coming
10:56:04 off the funds that we already had budgeted survive
10:56:08 that special session, and we feel very God about that.
10:56:11 We also feel very good about the transportation trust
10:56:14 funds not being impacted, the legislature realize the
10:56:18 importance of transportation projects to the economic
10:56:22 recovery, and did not get involved in that area.
10:56:29 You heard probably increased traffic fines.
10:56:32 We will be able to share in that.
10:56:34 We have about a 25% stake that we get out of traffic

10:56:37 fines that are collected but not yet to the point
10:56:40 where we have determined how much additional revenue
10:56:44 that could come to the city from that source, but it
10:56:48 wags additional revenue.
10:56:50 And the legislature also approved a $10 million small
10:56:55 business loan program that allows loans of up to
10:56:58 $250,000 for businesses, small businesses, meeting
10:57:03 specified criteria. We don't have the details of what
10:57:05 was in that legislation yet, but I assure you that our
10:57:10 small business or WMBE folks and our economic
10:57:13 development folks will be looking at that very
10:57:15 carefully to see what opportunities are there for
10:57:19 small businesses within the city to participate.
10:57:24 The special session starts March 3rd.
10:57:27 Currently they are projecting a shortfall of $3
10:57:32 billion that they are going to have to come up with in
10:57:35 order to accomplish the balanced budget.
10:57:39 We are again going to be watching very carefully,
10:57:41 affordable housing.
10:57:43 We are going to be watching reclaimed water.
10:57:45 As you know, that's a very important resource for the
10:57:48 City of Tampa, a resource that we are very interested

10:57:51 in preserving for our needs rather than what some
10:57:56 other folks would like to have of that resource.
10:58:00 As far as how council can help, you know, the primary
10:58:06 approach, I would suggest that we continue direct
10:58:10 involvement from council members to the mayor, to
10:58:12 myself, to the administrators, or to the department
10:58:16 heads.
10:58:17 We rely on you as stakeholders, as elected officials
10:58:21 in the community.
10:58:22 We know you interact with other elected officials,
10:58:26 other organizations.
10:58:27 You bring ideas to the table.
10:58:29 You bring recommendations to the table.
10:58:31 And we are always willing to listen and determine
10:58:37 whether or not there are opportunities for to us
10:58:40 pursue, either in a positive or in a protective mode.
10:58:45 During the regular session, city clerk will continue
10:58:47 to provide you updates from the League of Cities, on a
10:58:53 periodic basis.
10:58:55 I ask you review those.
10:58:56 If you have any questions about those, please contact
10:58:58 me or the appropriate functional staff counterpart for

10:59:02 additional information on those updates.
10:59:06 And certainly if we get to the situation where the
10:59:09 city needs to take a strong, very strong visible
10:59:13 position in support of or in opposition of anything
10:59:18 that's before the legislature, we will be briefing
10:59:22 council members coming before you, asking for your
10:59:25 consideration and passing a motion in support of the
10:59:28 mayor's, city position for whatever initiative that we
10:59:32 are trying to accomplish.
10:59:38 That concludes my remarks.
10:59:39 I would be glad to answer any questions you may have.
10:59:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Smith, thank you so much for
10:59:44 coming before us today.
10:59:49 I think with the very difficult situation at
10:59:51 Tallahassee that it's really obvious that we all need
10:59:53 to work together more than ever in trying to get our
10:59:58 legislative delegation to do things that will protect
11:00:00 and benefit the City of Tampa.
11:00:02 I would like City Council to play an active role with
11:00:08 you all.
11:00:08 The word that you used was you would brief us on what
11:00:11 you have done.

11:00:12 I think that would be really valuable.
11:00:15 In advance of the legislature's session beginning, if
11:00:18 the administration could come before council and tell
11:00:21 us what the priorities are, and we could share with
11:00:25 you what our priorities are.
11:00:27 I want to compliment the administration on working.
11:00:30 I know that Chuck Walters has been very active in
11:00:34 trying to protect our stormwater from fertilizers.
11:00:40 He's been leading a statewide effort and we are
11:00:43 engaged on that.
11:00:44 That's very good.
11:00:44 I know that Bill Peoples, our lobbyist, does the best
11:00:50 he can.
11:00:51 I would like to add council concerns to his list of
11:00:55 priorities.
11:00:55 For example, the Public Service Commission, yesterday,
11:01:00 today, and really the end of the week, is considering
11:01:03 Tampa Electric Company's request for a 22% increase in
11:01:09 the rate base.
11:01:11 City Council wrote a letter to the PSC saying, please
11:01:14 don't do this.
11:01:15 I don't think -- and you can please share with me if I

11:01:18 am incorrect -- I don't think Bill peoples is going to
11:01:22 the PSC on our behalf.
11:01:24 Is he?
11:01:25 >>> No.
11:01:27 >> That's the way in which I see council being able to
11:01:29 play a role as well as the administration.
11:01:31 I know that we have separate roles, but the point is
11:01:35 if there's something that's for the good of the city I
11:01:38 would hope that our lobbyists really weigh in for all
11:01:41 of us in the City of Tampa.
11:01:42 So what I would like to suggest is that prior to the
11:01:45 special session, prior to the regular legislative
11:01:48 session, that you or someone in your staff like Mrs.
11:01:54 Stephenson come to council, for five or ten minutes,
11:01:57 and engage us.
11:01:58 The situation has always been totally passive.
11:02:01 Basically the city clerk gives us a list of what the
11:02:06 Florida League of Cities is involved in.
11:02:07 What I am suggesting is the money is tight.
11:02:11 Let's be better communicative, more engaged, and share
11:02:15 what you are doing so that we can support it and we
11:02:17 can share with you what we are hearing from our

11:02:19 constituents.
11:02:20 I think that this would be to the good of the city.
11:02:23 And I think it would be -- it wouldn't cost more money
11:02:27 but it would allow us hopefully to be more effective
11:02:30 and lastly, I hope that people peoples can work his
11:02:33 way to the PSC in the next day or so and put much in a
11:02:36 good word of the ordinances passed by count.
11:02:39 It wasn't an ordinance, it was a resolution,
11:02:41 requesting that the rate request by TECO be tempered.
11:02:45 Thank you.
11:02:47 >>> If I may respond, Mr. Chairman Scott.
11:02:50 Certainly we want council to be involved in providing
11:02:54 information that we can use to develop our approach
11:02:57 for the next legislative session.
11:03:01 If we would wait to the point where we would brief
11:03:04 council just before the session, and then you would
11:03:07 use that opportunity to say, what about this?
11:03:10 What about that?
11:03:11 That's too late in the process.
11:03:13 And what we would encourage council to do is to
11:03:16 continue the process that we set up administratively,
11:03:20 where any time you have input, such as the PSC,

11:03:25 whether it's fertilizer or whether it with regard to
11:03:33 electricity, provide those inputs and we will consider
11:03:36 them as an administration.
11:03:38 But to include active involvement, we are going to get
11:03:43 into the situation where we have got more than we can
11:03:45 cover.
11:03:46 And the reason Mr. Peoples is not with the PSC is that
11:03:51 he has got other directions that he needs to be
11:03:53 focused on in order to get ready for the upcome
11:03:58 legislative session.
11:04:02 So we would like to continue the approach we have used
11:04:04 in the past.
11:04:06 We will keep the lines much communication open.
11:04:08 If individual council members want more information
11:04:10 with regard to specific issues or areas of concern, we
11:04:15 would be glad to brief you on a one-on-one basis.
11:04:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me raise this question, I guess,
11:04:21 on the city attorney, might need to chime in on this.
11:04:24 I guess my issue would be at this point, what I am
11:04:28 hearing is the administration goes to the legislative
11:04:32 delegation without the council.
11:04:36 Is there anything to preclude the City Council taking

11:04:42 up issues that may be important to them and forward
11:04:45 them to the special session, or to the legislative
11:04:51 delegation?
11:04:53 >>> I think there's two answers to that question.
11:05:00 One is the charter reserves intergovernmental
11:05:03 relations to the mayor, so that's the appropriate role
11:05:05 of the mayor, in my view, is to direct the lobbying
11:05:09 efforts and the federal level, the state level, or the
11:05:13 county level, if we were to be involved at the county
11:05:18 level.
11:05:19 The role for the council would be I think in the
11:05:22 consultative role, I think this was described as
11:05:25 appropriate, or if you all as a body want to take a
11:05:28 position on an issue and pass a resolution or send
11:05:31 alerted, I think that is appropriate.
11:05:35 But it would be the mayor that articulates the formal
11:05:38 position of the city to the Congress or to the
11:05:42 legislature.
11:05:44 Obviously as elected officials you have your own
11:05:47 portfolio to go do what you would like to do as
11:05:51 elected officials is individuals, but as a council you
11:05:53 would need to act collectively to pass a resolution or

11:05:56 approve a letter on an issue.
11:06:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: As I understand, an individual council
11:06:02 member can meet with the delegation member, forward
11:06:06 any written correspondence, is that what you are
11:06:08 saying, as a collective body, we would have to vote on
11:06:11 that and forward that to the administration?
11:06:13 That is the process that has been advocated?
11:06:17 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes, sir.
11:06:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So my point is, then, if council are
11:06:22 going to forward to the administration, it needs to be
11:06:24 a decision by the body, or unless individual council
11:06:28 members are going to go directly to the legislative
11:06:31 delegation.
11:06:31 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Representing themselves as -- yes.
11:06:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, that's what I'm saying.
11:06:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I was really eager to get a copy of
11:06:38 the economic stimulus package that the mayor created.
11:06:41 And I was really pleased to receive it last Friday at
11:06:44 about 5:20.
11:06:45 But again I see an opportunity that you could gain
11:06:50 from listening or presenting to council what you are
11:06:55 thinking of as the economic stimulus package and

11:06:57 asking for our input.
11:06:59 I really would love to be, as Mr. Fletcher said, in a
11:07:06 more consultive role.
11:07:08 And the way it is now, it's an e-mail after 5:00 at
11:07:14 the same time the press gets the information.
11:07:15 I would much prefer council, for you all to come to us
11:07:18 even the day before.
11:07:19 I know you are working on it up till the last minute
11:07:21 but come to us and say this is what you are thinking
11:07:23 of, do you have any additional ideas or input?
11:07:26 Recognizing of course that it's the mayor's final
11:07:29 decision.
11:07:30 But frankly, council members work very hard.
11:07:32 We are out in the community.
11:07:33 We are doing a variety of things.
11:07:34 And the administration might benefit from our council.
11:07:38 But that can only happen if there's communication.
11:07:40 And I know that some of us speak with you
11:07:43 individually, but I think we have this time on our
11:07:45 agenda every week for hearing reports from the
11:07:48 administration, but it would be helpful to us if you
11:07:52 all initiated, and what you consider a timely way,

11:07:55 information on what you're thinking of, and ask for
11:07:59 input.
11:08:00 I think it would be to the good of the city.
11:08:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let me just say, I think it's
11:08:05 two-fold.
11:08:05 One is if the administration wants the input, they
11:08:08 have the right to ask. Secondly, you have a right,
11:08:11 though, as an elected body to discuss any issue and
11:08:13 forward it to the administration without asking --
11:08:18 that's pretty much what the city attorney said based
11:08:19 upon the charter.
11:08:20 So if there are issues even with the stimulus, you
11:08:23 didn't have to wait to hear from the mayor.
11:08:25 If you had issues relative though that, you could have
11:08:29 brought that to council, could have voted on that and
11:08:31 forwarded to the administration and they would have an
11:08:33 opportunity to whether to move forward.
11:08:37 Pretty much under the charter you have limited power,
11:08:40 or authority, is what I am hearing.
11:08:42 Do you understand?
11:08:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:08:48 >>> I may just comment on that.

11:08:50 Communication is very essential for the administration
11:08:54 or council to effectively provide services to our
11:08:56 citizens, and we look at that on a year-round basis.
11:09:00 And I would not think that there should have been any
11:09:03 surprises in those 25 projects that we put into that
11:09:07 stimulus package, because they cover water,
11:09:11 wastewater, stormwater, parks and recreation, and even
11:09:15 a CRA, and the Central Park Village.
11:09:17 So I realize the limitation that we were under with
11:09:21 the time constraint, and, you know, we have had about
11:09:25 three or four different stimulus packages since the
11:09:29 first of the year in December, and the folks in
11:09:33 contract administration and utilities management have
11:09:35 been working very hard.
11:09:39 But I think the key is continuous frequent and often
11:09:42 dialogue with the mayor, and members of the city
11:09:45 staff, and certainly as we go through a budget
11:09:48 process, we are going to get more involved in
11:09:49 workshops this year, and I encourage all of you to
11:09:53 participate in those workshops because as you said,
11:09:56 funds are very limited, and time is going to be very
11:09:59 limited, and your participation and involvement in

11:10:02 those workshops along with your advisory folks will be
11:10:06 very important to a good outcome.
11:10:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:10:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I concur, Mr. Smith.
11:10:13 And I want to go back, though, to what I hear what
11:10:21 Mrs. Saul-Sena says, she wants council to be consulted
11:10:23 on issues coming forth from the administration.
11:10:26 But also I'm saying, that council also has a right to
11:10:31 bring any issues to this council and vote upon them,
11:10:34 forward them to the administration based on the
11:10:39 charter and based on Wan Mr. Fletcher has said to us,
11:10:42 that we don't have to wait for the administration to
11:10:44 come talk to us.
11:10:45 If you have an issue that you want to bring to this
11:10:47 council, you can bring to the council, council can
11:10:48 discuss that issue and then it can be forwarded to
11:10:50 administration for their continued input, if they want
11:10:53 to move it forward.
11:10:54 So I want us to be clear on that.
11:11:01 Like I said, it's always a good opportunity for to us
11:11:03 communicate and work together.
11:11:04 We are on the same page.

11:11:06 But at the same time, I want us to understand that you
11:11:08 are not -- it not like you have to wait for the
11:11:15 administration to come talk to you about something
11:11:17 that's on your mind.
11:11:18 I don't accept that.
11:11:20 I like to think that we bring something to the table,
11:11:22 that you have something to bring to council, you can
11:11:24 bring that issue, we can discuss that and we can
11:11:27 forward to the administration, and the administration
11:11:28 has a right to accept it or to reject it.
11:11:32 It's as simple as that.
11:11:33 It's not rocket science.
11:11:34 It's not that difficult.
11:11:35 We are on the same page.
11:11:37 We are on the same team.
11:11:39 We are not in opposition.
11:11:41 Okay.
11:11:44 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I know Mr. Smith's office and the
11:11:46 mayor's office has always been receptive anytime I
11:11:49 call, no matter what the issue is?
11:11:51 I just brought up an issue about the computer program
11:11:54 that's being used with our building department, and

11:11:58 they are working in conjunction with the county so that
11:12:00 we can use the same computer program, and I think
11:12:04 what's going to happen is that we are probably going to
11:12:06 pay for the upgrades on this instead of buying a new
11:12:09 license.
11:12:10 It's going to be a lot cheaper.
11:12:11 The county is using the same computer.
11:12:14 I have been talking to Roger deem who works for the
11:12:16 county, and they are working together with our
11:12:19 specialists in that department.
11:12:22 But they have been receptive to me all the time.
11:12:25 And I'm happy.
11:12:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 80.
11:12:52 >>KAREN PALUS: I'm here on item 80, a follow-up to a
11:12:55 previous memo that was submitted on behalf of several
11:12:58 city departments that was requested regarding mowing,
11:13:02 in contract follow-ups and such.
11:13:06 This item here is relating to inspections and whether
11:13:09 the contracts can be redirected to landscaping work
11:13:18 -- and contracts do change during the wintertime
11:13:25 period, in which we reduce the amount of mowing for
11:13:29 all the different contract, and have different

11:13:31 obligations depending on their areas of service.
11:13:33 The landscaping work that occurs during that time as
11:13:35 well.
11:13:36 They may not mow, or they may do some mowing, mulch
11:13:43 work.
11:13:44 So as far as the contract needing to be modified
11:13:47 through the purchasing department, we already modify
11:13:49 that within the agreement itself.
11:13:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I seconded this.
11:13:59 And just made the motion.
11:14:06 Is this specific to any particular area?
11:14:11 >>KAREN PALUS: No, the original motion was for us to
11:14:14 consider the information presented by Chip Thomas
11:14:17 regarding no mowing, no watering, nothing on all of
11:14:21 city grounds, and responded back and shared that we
11:14:24 have systems in place like our water as much as
11:14:30 possible where we have them in our rights-of-way and
11:14:32 our park facilities, within a fire station, had
11:14:39 programs set up that we are following through with all
11:14:42 of the restrictions that are required on all of the
11:14:44 properties as well.
11:14:44 In fact, we continue to tie in, monitor, so we can

11:14:49 focus our rain gauges and on the technology that I
11:14:53 shared with council.
11:14:53 The other question came on the mowing.
11:14:55 We do do a different cycle of mowing at this time of
11:14:58 the year, when grass is more dormant, but to not mow
11:15:02 at all would cause us major problems especially with
11:15:05 our landscape and our turf block about every 14 days,
11:15:19 it's a cycle during this time of year but they are
11:15:21 also doing other things.
11:15:22 I think it was a question if they are not mowing, what
11:15:25 else are they doing?
11:15:26 They actually do all the landscape as well.
11:15:29 If you notice the last few weeks it is not in
11:15:31 preparation for Super Bowl.
11:15:32 However, it's a very timely thing that all of our
11:15:35 parks facilities, especially, and some of the other
11:15:38 contracts, that you are seeing all the mulch beds, all
11:15:41 the weeding being done and all that throughout the
11:15:43 city as part of that contract changeover as their
11:15:46 focus of work.
11:15:50 >>MARY MULHERN: So it sounds like on the question of
11:15:52 what the contract landscape people can do, it not --

11:15:59 you can work with them, if we have a policy decision
11:16:02 to approach green stuff, in a different way.
11:16:20 This whole concept of watering and turf as opposed to
11:16:23 other kind of greens.
11:16:25 Since Mr. Miranda couldn't be here today, I am going
11:16:28 to -- I don't have my water bill and I don't have the
11:16:35 statistics on how much water we use this week.
11:16:37 But I did read the paper this morning.
11:16:40 And there is a small picture of sinkhole near Morris
11:16:51 Bridge Road that says Tampa Bay water is going to
11:16:54 start pumping from, and what they had to say in this
11:16:56 article is as of last week, the reservoir held
11:17:00 1.8 billion gallons, when full it hold more than 14
11:17:05 billion-gallons.
11:17:07 It's pretty bad.
11:17:10 And utility managers were not able to fill the
11:17:12 reservoir this summer because of the cracks, and
11:17:16 that's not our issue but hopefully that is being
11:17:20 pursued.
11:17:20 And I think it is by the county, repairing that.
11:17:24 But the whole point that I wanted to make was since
11:17:28 residential water use accounts for more than 50%

11:17:33 watering, turf is more than 50% of our water usage, I
11:17:38 really feel that the city needs to really have some
11:17:43 policy decisions beyond, you know, just expanding
11:17:46 reclaimed water, but conserving and using less water.
11:17:52 And I think the most obvious thing for us to do is
11:17:55 find ways to discourage turf and grass and encourage
11:18:02 native plants and organic gardening which uses less
11:18:07 water, and growing food.
11:18:13 I am not even going to get into that today.
11:18:15 But just in terms of replacing turf.
11:18:18 And I think I'm going to try to work with legal and
11:18:21 figuring out if there's some further changes to our
11:18:24 ordinance.
11:18:25 I know that councilman Dingfelder wrote a little bit
11:18:33 into the gren ordinance that changed that.
11:18:34 But I think I'm going to follow up on it to find ways
11:18:41 that we can reduce through incentives and if we can
11:18:48 have some possible changes in our code.
11:18:52 To further reduce our use of water.
11:18:55 It's just a huge problem.
11:18:56 And I would love to see the Parks Department to move
11:19:00 toward away from grass, and whatever other things, as

11:19:09 you are replacing or doing new planting, we can start
11:19:14 to look at other ways, other kinds of planting.
11:19:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:19:26 Item 17 was pulled.
11:19:27 Who pulled that?
11:19:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Me.
11:19:32 Mr. Vaughan is going to explain.
11:19:34 It sounds like we are saving money.
11:19:42 >>> Dave Vaughan, contract administration.
11:19:44 Your question?
11:19:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Number 17.
11:19:46 It talks about reworking our contracts, reducing the
11:19:48 amount.
11:19:49 >>> This is another in a series of resolutions we
11:19:54 brought to you whereby purchasing materials direct, we
11:19:56 save sales tax, and this is another one of those
11:20:00 items.
11:20:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That is great.
11:20:03 My question, is because I am always looking for money
11:20:05 for things that will enhance this project, can you
11:20:09 give us kind of ballpark -- does the city realize
11:20:13 these savings?

11:20:14 And, if so, can we put that money towards purchasing
11:20:17 trees to reinstall in Kiley?
11:20:19 >>> Yes, the city does realize the savings on the
11:20:22 sales tax.
11:20:24 That savings remains in the contract as contingency
11:20:28 for items.
11:20:29 We are not at a point in this project where we can
11:20:31 commit those moneys to trees, though.
11:20:35 In this particular item, those funds are CIT bond
11:20:39 funds which also can be used for the park?
11:20:42 As you know, we have significant items related to the
11:20:44 park including restrooms, and those sorts of things
11:20:47 that we have to take care of.
11:20:53 There's about $640,000 towards the additional things.
11:21:02 This council, next Thursday at 1:30, is having a
11:21:06 discussion on putting trees back in Kiley Garden,
11:21:13 working out a variety of potential sources such as the
11:21:15 tree trust fund, because as I said at this point the
11:21:17 money will probably -- the trees will grow faster than
11:21:21 the money in the bank.
11:21:22 But these funds are available to put towards the
11:21:28 reinstallation of trees in Kiley garden, I think that

11:21:32 would be appropriate.
11:21:33 >>> At this time we are not in a position to commit
11:21:36 funds to that.
11:21:37 >> When will we know?
11:21:40 >>> Dave Vaughan: I cannot give you a date.
11:21:42 We have another eight or nine months worth of
11:21:45 construction on the project.
11:21:46 And at some point between now and then, if it's not
11:21:52 going to be a decision within the next few days or
11:21:54 next week that we'll be in a position to answer.
11:21:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Madam Chairman?
11:22:02 I don't really understand why you are not in a
11:22:05 position to do that.
11:22:06 But my very strong feeling -- and we'll probably talk
11:22:11 about this at the workshop -- we are reducing the
11:22:14 contract amount for Kiley Garden repair sites,
11:22:20 $375,000.
11:22:21 >>> That's correct.
11:22:22 >> Almost 376.
11:22:24 >>> However, that is not the tax savings to the city.
11:22:27 That is the amount for the items that we are going to
11:22:29 turn around and purchase directly.

11:22:32 The savings generated by that, if you read further on
11:22:35 the background for this item, is approximately a
11:22:37 little under $23,000.
11:22:39 >> Where is that?
11:22:48 >>> The third paragraph from the bottom, the total
11:22:50 savings to the city from this change order will be
11:22:53 26,800.
11:22:55 Part of that is I believe to the museum on this.
11:22:58 And the balance, the 22,656 is related -- is the tax
11:23:03 savings to Kiley.
11:23:06 >> I am going to have to read all the backup and try
11:23:09 to understand that.
11:23:09 But my feeling is that if we have savings on the
11:23:13 budget for Kiley Gardens, we are so short of what we
11:23:17 need to restore that garden, which was a commitment
11:23:19 that the mayor made, then I don't want that money
11:23:22 going anywhere else.
11:23:23 So if it turns out it's only 23,000, I want that money
11:23:26 to be budgeted for Kiley garden and not for any
11:23:33 other -- anything else that's going to be happening in
11:23:38 that park.
11:23:39 But we can bring that up at our discussion meeting.

11:23:41 But hopefully I didn't miss anything in today's
11:23:52 consent agenda but I am not going to be approving any
11:23:54 savings from Kiley to go back into anything other than
11:23:59 Kiley Park.
11:24:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I hope that next week when we have
11:24:02 the special discussion that if you can't be here with
11:24:04 us that you will listen to it on government access,
11:24:06 because I think it's going to be a very germane
11:24:09 discussion.
11:24:12 >>MARY MULHERN: The other thing I want to point out,
11:24:14 because this relates less to us, but we are talking
11:24:17 about how we are going to have this turf there, which
11:24:20 has to be mowed and watered as opposed to trees that
11:24:25 need to be pruned once a year.
11:24:31 I think that's all you do for crape myrtle.
11:24:34 I would like to see the costs, associated cost
11:24:37 comparison maybe when we have that discussion meeting,
11:24:39 or workshop.
11:24:42 What the cost to the city is to maintain all that turf
11:24:46 that they are going to plant as opposed to replacing
11:24:50 the trees that were there as far as the maintenance.
11:25:00 I know the costs of buying trees.

11:25:02 But as far as future maintenance, what the difference
11:25:04 would be as far as the maintenance and the water cost.
11:25:10 >> I move item 17.
11:25:11 >> Second.
11:25:17 (Motion carried).
11:25:17 >> Thank you for saving money for us, Mr. Vaughan.
11:25:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 26.
11:25:22 You pulled that.
11:25:23 >> GREG SPEARMAN: Good morning.
11:25:32 I'm here to speak on item number 26.
11:25:35 It's the emergency purchase of our filtered gas.
11:25:40 >> The reason I pulled this, it's 1.4 million in
11:25:43 emergency purchase.
11:25:45 You and I both former and present purchasing agents we
11:25:51 never like to see anything emergency when it comes to
11:25:54 purchasing.
11:25:55 That's why I would LIKE you to explain it on behalf of
11:25:57 administration.
11:25:57 >>> The city did contact the providers of the chemical
11:26:09 because we were approaching the contract period.
11:26:13 The vendors said they were not interested in renewing
11:26:15 because of the tight demand of sulfur in the market

11:26:18 today.
11:26:19 That shifted large quantities over to China.
11:26:22 We also have a very high production of fertilizer in
11:26:28 the market today. So on behalf of the water
11:26:31 department an emergency affidavit to keep the plant
11:26:34 properly treated with the chemicals, and at the same
11:26:36 time, rebid for this particular project.
11:26:40 Upon receiving the bids and the rebids, we got one
11:26:43 response.
11:26:44 That particular one took several exceptions to the
11:26:47 city's conditions and those were not approved by the
11:26:50 legal department.
11:26:51 We then reissued the bid a second time, and opened
11:26:55 bids on the 12th of January.
11:26:58 Because of the change of market conditions and the low
11:27:00 availability of sulfur in the marketplace, we did
11:27:02 receive three bid responses, and we will be coming
11:27:05 back to you within the next week or two for a
11:27:09 permanent contract award, but we needed to issue that
11:27:13 purchase just to get the water department through this
11:27:16 time, to get the plant with the water treated.
11:27:22 >> So there's a stop gap of about six months until you

11:27:24 can get that back to us?
11:27:25 >> That's correct.
11:27:26 We may not even use that amount of money.
11:27:28 Any amount of the emergency amount approved not used
11:27:31 will go to the contract for its approval and bring
11:27:34 that back before you.
11:27:35 >> Thank you.
11:27:36 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Is this in reference to the
11:27:41 conversation we had a few weeks ago, Mr. Spearman,
11:27:43 about the $2 million bid for the sulfur gas?
11:27:48 It comes in in a rail car and sit on the rail car, and
11:27:52 that's where we use it from?
11:27:54 >>> That's correct.
11:27:54 We do have to receive it by rail car.
11:27:56 That's another good point, councilman Caetano, because
11:27:59 a lot of companies can't give us the rail car
11:28:03 shipments.
11:28:03 She do it by truck and because of the volume we use,
11:28:06 we actually receive by rail car, that's the only way
11:28:09 we can receive this actual product.
11:28:11 So if it comes by truck we can't use it.
11:28:14 So we are buying directly from the manufacturer?

11:28:16 >>> That's correct.
11:28:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other questions?
11:28:23 We need to move item 26.
11:28:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.
11:28:26 >> Second.
11:28:28 (Motion carried).
11:28:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: On item 29 I'll get with Al.
11:28:32 I'll move it.
11:28:33 >> Second.
11:28:34 (Motion carried).
11:28:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
11:28:38 That's the end of our agenda till 1:30.
11:28:40 So we will go into recess.
11:28:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just a reminder for those that might
11:28:46 be listening and concerned about the billboard
11:28:48 settlements.
11:28:49 Those items 81 and 82 have been continued to February
11:28:51 5th.
11:28:53 So they won't be discussed at all after lunch.
11:28:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What time this afternoon?
11:28:59 Do you want to do a little new business if we have it?
11:29:02 We have a little time.

11:29:05 As you all may recall, the history center came to us a
11:29:11 couple months back and asked us to rename St. Pete
11:29:13 Times Forum drive to old water street.
11:29:18 When they did, they showed us that they had
11:29:20 discussions up and down that street, which is only
11:29:26 about four institutions along there.
11:29:31 So at the last minute, the St. Pete Times Forum folks
11:29:34 showed up at that meeting, and they said, you know, we
11:29:36 really haven't had a lot of dialogue with the city on
11:29:39 this, but we'll go ahead and not object unless we can
11:29:44 be assured that there will be some type of double
11:29:46 signage or dual signage.
11:29:48 And I have got a copy of that transcript from -- what
11:29:53 was the date?
11:29:54 Whatever date it was, December 18th.
11:29:57 Anyway, one of us said, well, I will go ahead and
11:30:05 support that as long as there's some dual signage so
11:30:07 that staff can accomplish that administratively.
11:30:10 I think that would be fine.
11:30:12 Gwen, you followed up and said, yes.
11:30:14 And then in the meantime, I moved the ordinance on
11:30:16 behalf of the history center.

11:30:18 We are all thrilled the history center is now opening.
11:30:20 Apparently the new signs are up and says old water
11:30:24 street but there's no dual signage like we had assured
11:30:26 the St. Pete Times folks that there would be.
11:30:29 So I don't know exactly how we can effectuate that but
11:30:34 I want to put it in the form of a motion so it gets
11:30:36 done.
11:30:36 But I would ask staff to come back to us in 30 days to
11:30:39 tell us how they are going to implement some type of
11:30:45 dual signage in recognition of the St. Pete Times
11:30:48 Forum.
11:30:49 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Did it get a second?
11:30:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:30:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Do you know what the cost was?
11:30:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The history center said they were
11:30:58 going to pay for the new signage whatever it was, a
11:31:02 thousand dollars.
11:31:03 >> So they may pay for the double signage?
11:31:05 >>> It cost anything, the is St. Pete Times folks can
11:31:10 pay for it.
11:31:11 We'll make sure the city doesn't pay for it.
11:31:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.

11:31:14 (Motion carried)
11:31:15 Anything else?
11:31:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's all for today.
11:31:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Madam Chairman.
11:31:21 We had a request as part of our addendum to the agenda
11:31:24 that Lauren Brooks from URS Corporation requested five
11:31:30 minutes on February 5th to present the Westshore
11:31:32 area pedestrian system plan.
11:31:34 So I move that we set this for February 5th.
11:31:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.
11:31:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions?
11:31:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You want that set for 9 a.m.?
11:31:45 Would that be under ceremonial section?
11:31:51 Public comments?
11:31:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Public comments.
11:31:53 They get five minutes for the presentation.
11:31:55 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor say Aye.
11:31:57 (Motion carried).
11:31:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move that we set a
11:32:02 special discussion meeting for February 26th at
11:32:05 1:30, creating a bicycle friendly city.
11:32:12 It's a question if we wait until we have an opening

11:32:14 for workshops, that's way into March, and I think
11:32:18 February is long enough to wait to get this going.
11:32:20 That's my thought.
11:32:21 And the administration said that we can have staff
11:32:25 meet with council and citizens Thursday so if we want
11:32:30 to do this, I think this is the time to do it.
11:32:32 That's my motion.
11:32:34 Thursday.
11:32:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Friendly suggestion.
11:32:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 1:30, February 26th.
11:32:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Friendly suggestion, Linda?
11:32:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:32:43 >> The infamous triple headers.
11:32:48 We created one in January, next week.
11:32:50 And then if you do that, what you are suggesting, you
11:32:52 will create one on the 26th, morning, afternoon
11:32:55 and anytime meeting.
11:32:57 But if you did it on the 19th, after the regular
11:33:04 meeting, we don't have a night meeting.
11:33:06 You might get more turnout.
11:33:07 Just a friendly suggestion.
11:33:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's a great idea.

11:33:11 We'll just have to go and tell the people this morning
11:33:13 who were interested in this topic but that's a super
11:33:15 idea.
11:33:16 To schedule this instead of on the 26th, as a
11:33:19 special discussion meeting, a special discussion
11:33:21 meeting on the 19th after the appeal hearings.
11:33:29 That's really a great suggestion.
11:33:30 Thank you.
11:33:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Did you want to set it for a time
11:33:35 later than 1:30 p.m.?
11:33:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why don't we say 2:00?
11:33:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With the understanding of those
11:33:44 people who come that perhaps it might not be heard
11:33:46 till 2:30, 4:00.
11:33:54 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor say Aye.
11:33:56 Opposed, Nay.
11:33:57 Anything else?
11:33:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Madam Chairman.
11:34:00 Council members received a memo from our mayor saying
11:34:02 that if we adopted the Tampa Electric Company
11:34:08 franchise that she would set up a committee to look at
11:34:11 accountability with TECO that addressed tree trimming

11:34:13 and potentials for undergrounding and other things.
11:34:16 I called the mayor's office yesterday, and that has
11:34:19 not yet happened.
11:34:20 So I would like to request a staff report in positive
11:34:23 days from the administration on when the Tampa
11:34:28 Electric Company accountability committee or the
11:34:33 environmental committee, when they are scheduling
11:34:36 their meeting, so that we can share that with our
11:34:39 constituents who are asking.
11:34:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
11:34:44 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I think we need to give the
11:34:46 administration time.
11:34:47 I know I have talked to the mayor just last week about
11:34:52 some people who want to be on this committee, and I
11:34:57 know she's working on it.
11:34:59 Let's put it that way.
11:35:00 I don't think we need to put pressure on her.
11:35:03 But she is working on it.
11:35:04 And I don't think I can support any more producer on
11:35:09 the mayor or the administration.
11:35:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My intent is to get a date when
11:35:14 this will happen.

11:35:15 Maybe it will be in March.
11:35:16 Maybe it will be in April.
11:35:17 But I'm asking for a report in 30 days which is at the
11:35:20 end of February.
11:35:21 We took our action, I believe in, November.
11:35:26 The report will tell us when this committee is going
11:35:28 to meet.
11:35:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Make I make a suggestion?
11:35:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:35:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you wish to have that report in
11:35:34 writing, and to have it set out a date certain?
11:35:38 Or you could receive it in advance of that date in
11:35:40 writing?
11:35:40 In other words, if the mayor makes the decision in
11:35:42 advance, do you want to wait 30 days to find out when
11:35:45 that -- what her response is?
11:35:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think in terms of getting clear
11:35:50 for the city clerk, I would like a report in writing,
11:35:54 and it can be in 30 days, and if the meeting is held
11:35:59 prior to that, then can say the meeting was held and
11:36:02 they are going to meet every onto other month,
11:36:04 whatever they are going to do, just so that council

11:36:06 knows when our constituents ask us, we are able to let
11:36:10 our constituents know.
11:36:14 At the T.H.A.N. meeting I know you all remember that
11:36:16 issue came up and people -- inquiring minds wanted to
11:36:19 know.
11:36:19 >>GWEN MILLER: But if she's working on it, don't you
11:36:22 think she can let you know sooner if she comes up with
11:36:24 a date?
11:36:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's my motion --
11:36:34 To make sure she's going to be able to meet and
11:36:38 function.
11:36:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I hope she'll have a -- I think 30
11:36:43 days is a modest recommendation.
11:36:52 Is there a second?
11:36:53 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
11:36:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Under council's it would come back at
11:37:08 the next meeting unless council wishes to revisit it.
11:37:13 Otherwise it will come back.
11:37:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: On a related topic, and I am going
11:37:21 to throb this out there and see how you all feel about
11:37:24 it.
11:37:24 The TECO issue obviously is an important issue to the

11:37:27 whole city and to council since we spent so much time
11:37:30 on it.
11:37:36 My suggestion is, it would be nice if the mayor
11:37:39 included a member of council, and not me, perhaps
11:37:48 Linda or Mary, I'll say in that order since Linda has
11:37:52 been working on it a little longer, to be on that
11:37:54 panel.
11:37:55 You know, just -- I don't see any legal conflict with
11:37:58 that, if it's only one member of council.
11:38:07 My motion will be perhaps in a letter from the
11:38:09 chairman that a council member, Mrs. Saul-Sena, or
11:38:15 maybe as an alternate, Mrs. Mulhern, be on that -- be
11:38:20 appointed by the mayor to be on that panel.
11:38:25 Several years ago the mayor had a MacDill JLUS
11:38:29 study and she appointed me to be on that.
11:38:31 I'm sure you have been appointed on various
11:38:33 committees.
11:38:35 So I just think that it has precedence, and I think
11:38:39 it's important.
11:38:42 That's my motion.
11:38:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:38:44 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: (off microphone)

11:38:49 I feel it's a very controversial issue.
11:38:51 Perhaps a conflict of interest of somebody from this
11:38:55 council being appointed especially if they have an
11:38:58 agenda, okay, and that agenda is that they want TECO
11:39:05 to do this, this and this, and I don't think TECO will
11:39:07 get a fair shot at the whole thing.
11:39:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My only problem with the motion is
11:39:12 this.
11:39:16 An two were in favor of opposition to move forward.
11:39:20 But I don't want to serve.
11:39:21 I am going to tell you that right now.
11:39:24 The mayor can appoint what she wants and I'll support
11:39:26 it.
11:39:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm good with that.
11:39:28 Just that council would respectfully request that we
11:39:30 have a member of council on that committee.
11:39:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Fine.
11:39:35 >>GWEN MILLER: I don't know that we need to have a
11:39:37 council there.
11:39:38 The citizens know what they want.
11:39:43 They are the ones telling us they should do it or not
11:39:47 do it.

11:39:55 Let the citizens handle it.
11:39:57 They can do a good job.
11:39:58 Don't you think they can?
11:40:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have always thought the world of
11:40:03 the citizens doing a good job but just because we sit
11:40:06 on this panel doesn't mean we aren't good citizens.
11:40:10 We are all good citizens.
11:40:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Maybe somebody would like to persuade
11:40:13 them another way.
11:40:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll make the motion and see where
11:40:17 it goes.
11:40:17 I think it would be nice to have.
11:40:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I second the motion and will point out
11:40:22 that the mayor is going to do whatever she wants.
11:40:24 So if she doesn't want to appoint one of us, she
11:40:26 won't.
11:40:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What motion and second?
11:40:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The amendment.
11:40:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Whoever she wants to appoint.
11:40:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion is requesting the mayor to
11:40:41 appoint one of council members serve on the task
11:40:43 force.

11:40:45 Seconded by -- motion by councilman Dingfelder,
11:40:47 seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
11:40:50 All in favor?
11:40:51 Opposes?
11:40:53 >>THE CLERK: Caetano voting no.
11:41:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other new business?
11:41:03 Go ahead.
11:41:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know why I had time to read
11:41:06 the paper this morning, but I did.
11:41:07 And a couple of stories jumped out at me.
11:41:13 One was that cutting air pollution for the first time
11:41:17 there's been a study that proves that by reducing air
11:41:20 pollution, it increases longevity.
11:41:23 And I thought it was pretty impressive, it increases
11:41:27 by five months.
11:41:34 It was a 20-year study, I guess.
11:41:36 So the reduction oaf 20 years during reduction in air
11:41:42 pollution has given us each an added five-month life
11:41:46 expectancy.
11:41:47 So I wanted to say that.
11:41:51 And I also wanted to give the bad news, that
11:41:59 Antarctica is melting and temperatures going down

11:42:02 there.
11:42:02 Research found that since 1957 the annual temperature
11:42:06 for the entire continent of Antarctica has warmed by
11:42:10 about one degree.
11:42:12 This is the only continent that there hasn't been
11:42:17 proof that the temperature was increasing.
11:42:19 So it's just another -- another indication that our
11:42:26 climate is warming, and we have to reduce our
11:42:29 greenhouse gas output.
11:42:31 And this relates to us as a city, and the fact that
11:42:37 the mayor signed the climate protection agreement, and
11:42:43 we haven't heard -- which has specific goals as far as
11:42:47 reducing the city's output, carbon output, and I would
11:42:53 like to ask for Thom Snelling, our sustainabilities or
11:42:59 green director, to give us a report on where they are
11:43:03 as far as -- I know that they were doing a baseline
11:43:06 measurement of what our output is, and which we need
11:43:10 to do to start with, and I know that the city is
11:43:14 working on that.
11:43:15 So I would like a report on that.
11:43:16 And I would also like a report from him on what other
11:43:22 specific goals have been set for us to reach the goals

11:43:29 that have been agreed upon by signing that initiative.
11:43:34 It's been, what, several years since that was signed,
11:43:37 and I don't know that we have had any report on what
11:43:41 reduction the city has accomplished.
11:43:45 In our carbon output.
11:43:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'll second that and add that I
11:43:50 sent a number of materials to Mr. Snelling the other
11:43:53 day.
11:43:58 We in the city and our building could do a much better
11:44:01 job in terms of greening our own facilities.
11:44:06 And I think perhaps that could also -- I assume that
11:44:10 will be part of Mr. Snelling's report.
11:44:11 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like that for two weeks if we
11:44:14 can have it.
11:44:15 And I don't even think -- I think that the -- we just
11:44:19 want to hear what measures they are doing, and we can
11:44:21 make suggestions at that point but, you know,
11:44:25 everything we can do, one of them is, you know, we
11:44:28 have had parks here today.
11:44:32 They need to plant more trees.
11:44:33 And I would like to hear, you know, what we are doing
11:44:36 in that regard, too.

11:44:37 So I just think an update on what we are doing, and we
11:44:40 can come loaded with suggestions.
11:44:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question on the motion.
11:44:48 Sandy, I thought Thom was supposed to be reporting
11:44:51 back to us periodically based upon the green ordinance
11:44:57 and other resolution and that sort of thing.
11:45:00 Do we expect him back anytime soon?
11:45:04 >>THE CLERK: If I recall, I do not believe council
11:45:08 made a specific motion to that effect.
11:45:09 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like specifically to have data
11:45:14 and goals.
11:45:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If he was coming in a month from
11:45:17 now --
11:45:20 >>THE CLERK: I think it was six months from the
11:45:22 adoption to try to come back.
11:45:24 >>MARY MULHERN: We are getting there, aren't we?
11:45:30 When did we adopt that?
11:45:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, he was here in December, to
11:45:36 give us a report, and I thought it was supposed --
11:45:40 bring it back this afternoon and let Sandy check at
11:45:43 lunch?
11:45:44 >>MARY MULHERN: No, because I specifically want him to

11:45:47 address these things.
11:45:48 I mean, it's a huge topic.
11:45:51 And I don't really want it, you know.
11:45:54 It really doesn't have to do with the green building
11:45:58 ordinance.
11:45:59 It has to do with steps the city is taking.
11:46:02 I mean, that's part of it.
11:46:06 But this is bigger than that.
11:46:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion on the floor.
11:46:14 >>MARY MULHERN: But we can come back this afternoon,
11:46:17 if he's on the agenda at some point very soon.
11:46:20 But Sandy doesn't think he is.
11:46:22 >>THE CLERK: I will check.
11:46:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll bring it up at the beginning in
11:46:28 the afternoon.
11:46:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So you want to withdraw your motion?
11:46:36 >>MARY MULHERN: Just withhold it until Sandy checks
11:46:39 her calendar.
11:46:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, I have a request here from
11:46:45 Jan Washington about placing this item for the evening
11:46:54 agenda at Port Tampa, Grand Hampton, adoption of
11:47:04 uniform method.

11:47:07 It's in reference to sidewalks.
11:47:13 We have to get it on by next meeting.
11:47:15 Otherwise, it's an issue.
11:47:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
11:47:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry.
11:47:28 >>> Jan Washington on 1-29 at 6:00.
11:47:37 I believe setting a public hearing.
11:47:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, there's a resolution attached to
11:47:42 it.
11:47:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We put that on our agenda, 1-29.
11:47:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
11:47:49 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:47:51 Opposed same sign.
11:47:52 We have one other issue then we are out of here.
11:47:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Scheduling if everyone would look
11:47:59 at their golden calendar.
11:48:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Why don't we refer it over, take a
11:48:04 look at it.
11:48:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: On the 16th we have an evening
11:48:08 council session for rezonings and the planning session
11:48:12 designs awards which I mate hate to miss because they
11:48:14 are so good so I would like to look at rescheduling

11:48:18 our April 16th rezoning meeting.
11:48:23 If you could come back to us with a suggestion, Mr.
11:48:25 Shelby.
11:48:26 By tonight.
11:48:29 Look at people's calendars.
11:48:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Rezonings.
11:48:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's a motion.
11:48:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
11:48:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:48:44 Opposed same sign.
11:48:45 Anything to come before us?
11:48:46 If not, we stand in recess until 1:30.
11:48:49 Thank you.
11:48:50 (Tampa City Council recess)

The preceding represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
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third party edits and software compatibility issues.
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Tampa City Council
Thursday, January 22, 2008
1:30 p.m. session

The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.

13:34:09 [Sounding gavel]
13:34:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
13:34:10 order.
13:34:11 We will have roll call.
13:34:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
13:34:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:34:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
13:34:16 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
13:34:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
13:34:20 Yes, Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
13:34:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

13:34:23 I would like to, as maker of the motion earlier today
13:34:25 that resulted in a 3-3 tie vote, I would like to just
13:34:29 withdraw it.
13:34:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think I seconded so I will also
13:34:34 withdraw the second.
13:34:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Receive and file it, I guess.
13:34:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That would be fine, I guess.
13:34:40 In that case, madam clerk, that will not be appearing.
13:34:44 >> It will not appear on the agenda.
13:34:45 >> Thank you.
13:34:46 The matter is settled then.
13:34:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Also for the record today, I have to
13:34:49 leave at 2:30.
13:34:51 I have to be gone by 2:30.
13:34:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, sorry to interrupt but
13:34:56 council had raised the issue, council member Saul-Sena
13:34:58 had talked about the calendar for April 16th.
13:35:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's deal with it -- can we bring it
13:35:04 up afterwards?
13:35:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Absolutely.
13:35:06 That will be fine.
13:35:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: At the end of the day we'll bring it

13:35:08 up.
13:35:09 Let's deal with these other important issues that are
13:35:11 coming before us right now.
13:35:16 We have 81-82 item, we can deal with those now because
13:35:22 they were scheduled for 1:30.
13:35:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe they were dealt with this
13:35:25 morning.
13:35:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This morning, but -- I'm aware of
13:35:29 that, but I also thought -- and correct me -- you deal
13:35:35 with that at 1:30.
13:35:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, this is not a public hearing,
13:35:39 it's understand staff reports.
13:35:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we don't have to deal with it.
13:35:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No.
13:35:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: In case anybody is here for the 81, 82
13:35:54 items, those are the Clear Channel and CBS billboards,
13:35:59 those items have been continued.
13:36:00 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
13:36:02 The only question I have, and I think it's appropriate
13:36:04 to announce that now, is that it wasn't rescheduled
13:36:08 for a 1:30 time certain so it will be on your agenda
13:36:11 during the regular staff report, if that's something

13:36:14 City Council did want to do, certainly we would make
13:36:16 that as a separate motion.
13:36:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Looking at the February 5th
13:36:21 calendar, you have no 1:30 items and only three staff
13:36:26 reports and unfinished business at 10:30 in the
13:36:29 morning so my sense would be that you would be able to
13:36:31 get to this in the morning agenda rather than coming
13:36:34 back after lunch.
13:36:35 >> We'll take it up in our morning staff reports.
13:36:37 >> And those who want to comment would then comment
13:36:39 during regular comment at the start of the meeting.
13:36:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
13:36:44 That's fine.
13:36:44 So everyone understands, we will pick up those items
13:36:47 in the morning, meet on the 5th.
13:36:50 That's the Clear Channel and CBS billboard.
13:36:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman, I think there are a
13:36:54 number of people who are really interested in this.
13:36:56 And in deference to them and to make their life
13:36:58 easier, I would rather set it for a time certain like
13:37:01 11:00 with the idea we hear public comment then
13:37:03 because I really do think there will be people who

13:37:06 want that, and it would be more accommodating to the
13:37:09 public.
13:37:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't have a problem with setting it
13:37:11 at 11.
13:37:12 The problem I have is changing public comment time.
13:37:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, just allow public comment on
13:37:16 the billboards when we discuss this item at 11.
13:37:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, that's the issue I'm saying.
13:37:23 Is it a public hearing?
13:37:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, sir.
13:37:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But council can allow public
13:37:28 comment.
13:37:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's take it up on that day whether
13:37:31 we will allow public comment or not.
13:37:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I want to share with you that I have
13:37:37 heard from the community that when something is set
13:37:39 for later on in the day, they like to have it resolved
13:37:41 in advance to know whether if they don't come at 9:00
13:37:46 and they do come at 11, they lose it, so if we could
13:37:53 have some clarity on that for the benefit of the
13:37:55 public.
13:37:56 One decision or the other, whatever council's pleasure

13:37:58 is.
13:37:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My motion would be that we continue
13:38:01 this till that date at 11:00, and allow the public
13:38:07 comment at that time.
13:38:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Waiver of the rules.
13:38:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Items 81 and 82.
13:38:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the question becomes, though,
13:38:16 the question comes how much time you are going to
13:38:19 allow, because you are going to have public comment
13:38:20 that morning, you have other issues, and the issue
13:38:24 comes how much time are we going to set aside for
13:38:28 that?
13:38:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That we not -- this is a very
13:38:40 important issue that we took.
13:38:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The key thing is don't make it
13:38:46 redundant.
13:38:47 If you spoke at nine in the morning on that issue,
13:38:49 then you can't speak on that issue at eleven.
13:38:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's what I was trying to get to.
13:38:53 That's what I was saying earlier.
13:38:54 If you are going to talk at nine --
13:38:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Include that in the motion.

13:38:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But I would like people -- I think
13:39:00 in terms of everybody -- you speak one or the other,
13:39:03 you can't speak at both.
13:39:04 But you allow public comment at eleven for people that
13:39:07 haven't spoken at nine.
13:39:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
13:39:09 >>GWEN MILLER: I am going to vote against it.
13:39:12 I don't think we should have both times.
13:39:13 If you are going to speak at public comment, I think
13:39:16 that should be enough.
13:39:20 Everybody is going to wait and speak then.
13:39:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just on that issue.
13:39:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Just that issue.
13:39:28 In that case I move we take this item first on the
13:39:31 agenda so that comment is right around when the
13:39:33 presentations are so we don't forget any of the
13:39:36 comments.
13:39:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Legal, do you have any concerns about
13:39:39 that being first on the agenda?
13:39:43 >>JULIA COLE: That would be fine for the legal
13:39:45 department to take that as the first item.
13:39:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's more logical --

13:39:50 >> Then my motion is we continue items 81 and 82 to be
13:39:53 first on our agenda.
13:39:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We take that up right after public
13:39:56 comment.
13:39:57 Okay?
13:39:57 Moved and seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena that we
13:40:00 take up items 81, 82 on the 5th, right after
13:40:06 public comment.
13:40:06 The first item on the agenda.
13:40:08 Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
13:40:10 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
13:40:11 Opposed?
13:40:12 That's fine.
13:40:14 That's better.
13:40:15 Thank you.
13:40:18 We have the 83 item.
13:40:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If you are going to be addressing any
13:40:38 item from 83 on, will you stand at this time and be
13:40:41 sworn?
13:40:42 If you are going to be addressing council, please
13:40:43 stand at this time and be sworn.
13:40:47 (Oath administered by Clerk)

13:40:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just a reminder that if any council
13:40:56 member had any ex parte communications with any party,
13:40:59 relative to any of these hearings, to please disclose
13:41:01 that prior to the vote.
13:41:03 And ladies and gentlemen, just a reminder, there is a
13:41:05 sign-in sheet that states council's policies relative
13:41:08 to testifying.
13:41:09 Please be sure to sign the sign-in sheet.
13:41:13 I will also put a sign here to remind you to reaffirm
13:41:16 that you have been sworn and please be sure to do so
13:41:20 at the time.
13:41:21 Thank you.
13:41:22 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.
13:41:26 This is a continued public hearing.
13:41:27 And this is on an alleyway that's located pretty much
13:41:31 in central Tampa.
13:41:32 It's between Martin Luther King and Ida street and
13:41:40 Taliaferro and Nebraska.
13:41:42 I have a map to show you a location.
13:41:44 I have it on the overhead.
13:41:48 The petitioner's property is in red and the vacated
13:41:52 area is in yellow.

13:41:54 This alley was the east was previously vacated in 1998
13:41:59 and they constructed an Eckerd's drugstore which has
13:42:02 been converted to a Discount Auto Parts, I believe.
13:42:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm having trouble hearing you.
13:42:08 I'm sorry.
13:42:08 >>> The area was previously vacated, the east half in
13:42:11 1998.
13:42:12 And there's a store there today.
13:42:17 I have photos.
13:42:18 I know you saw these before.
13:42:19 I can show them to you again if you want to see it
13:42:21 again.
13:42:24 No?
13:42:24 Okay.
13:42:25 One thing I would like to point out.
13:42:26 The report has been revised.
13:42:27 Wastewater has revised their response to an objection.
13:42:30 So staff recommends -- objects to this request based
13:42:35 on that revised response from wastewater.
13:42:37 And -- yes, sir?
13:42:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Looking at the map, that's on there
13:42:45 right now, it says property owned.

13:42:51 Who is the owner of that?
13:42:52 The petitioner in the red?
13:43:00 Profit?
13:43:01 >>> Profit development.
13:43:02 >> What's on the other side underneath this alley?
13:43:04 >>> This is a gas station, I believe.
13:43:07 This one here?
13:43:08 >> No.
13:43:08 >>> That's a service station.
13:43:11 Like a gas station.
13:43:12 >> And that's different ownership?
13:43:14 >>> Uh-huh.
13:43:15 >> Is the north-south alley, at the corner of the gas
13:43:18 station, is that an active alley?
13:43:20 >>> No.
13:43:21 I have a graphic to show you what's vacated.
13:43:31 The north south was vacated in 1998.
13:43:36 Mr. Metcalf is here from the wastewater department.
13:43:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, sir.
13:43:48 >>RALPH METCALF: Tampa wastewater department.
13:43:54 We were asked to explain the new policy, and that we
13:43:58 have sort of adopted.

13:44:05 Assuming I know how to work this machine here.
13:44:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Just lay it on there.
13:44:08 >>> I can probably do that.
13:44:12 The wastewater department has about 110,000 sewer
13:44:16 connections.
13:44:19 There's over 19,000 alleys so this is not a small
13:44:24 thing.
13:44:24 Here's what our problem is.
13:44:26 And I'm going to show you, first off, this is what a
13:44:32 ten-foot right-of-way in this case, that's what we are
13:44:34 talking about, what the alley looks like.
13:44:41 What you see here is a 10-foot right-of-way and a
13:44:48 3-foot setback to garage or what have you.
13:44:52 This is basically a scale drawing of the kind of
13:44:55 machine that we would go in to dig up, repair that
13:44:57 pipe.
13:44:59 There's just about enough room, as you can see, to do
13:45:03 that.
13:45:04 Now here is an example, a couple of examples of an
13:45:07 alley that meets that criteria.
13:45:14 Now you notice you can put the fence up to the
13:45:16 right-of-way line.

13:45:18 Now, that might mean that we have to move a fence,
13:45:21 pick a fence up, do our work, replace the fence.
13:45:24 If a tree grows out there, generally we can work the
13:45:26 machines around there.
13:45:28 So the first two I'm going to show you are two or
13:45:32 three are good alleys.
13:45:36 That are still rights-of-way.
13:45:46 Now, this one is a little tighter but is still doable.
13:45:49 You have to do a little sneaking around the trees and
13:45:52 things but taking down a fence is a lot difference
13:45:54 than somebody's house or driveway.
13:45:59 The interesting thing is, if you get an easement that
13:46:03 at that point there is no setback.
13:46:05 People can build -- and the lawyers are a lot smarter
13:46:10 than I am and will show you a lot of reasons why this
13:46:13 is true, but at that point if somebody builds there we
13:46:15 don't have enough room to fix, replace, or repair the
13:46:18 pipe with ten feet.
13:46:20 Unless we go in like a bunch of archaeologists with
13:46:24 small shovels and do it by hand, which is very
13:46:26 expensive, almost impossible sometimes.
13:46:29 >> Ralph, those look like '62 Corvairs.

13:46:35 Are you dating yourself?
13:46:36 >>> I'm not sure how to take that, are you dating
13:46:40 yourself?
13:46:41 [ Laughter ]
13:46:41 Generally not, no.
13:46:43 Certainly not in public.
13:46:44 [ Laughter ]
13:46:47 This is a NASCAR family, had spoilers.
13:46:53 You get the basic idea.
13:46:55 Here is a vacated right-of-way that has turned into an
13:47:01 easement in Ybor City.
13:47:06 That's ten feet.
13:47:11 This is a close-up of the same thing.
13:47:16 In a case like that, you are not getting back in there
13:47:18 to fix that.
13:47:20 Now, what we had proposed, and it turns out in talking
13:47:27 to water and stormwater, they had exactly the same
13:47:29 problems.
13:47:30 Water has lots of places where they have easements
13:47:34 they simply can't get to.
13:47:36 One of the examples was Davis Island.
13:47:37 Davis Island was built in the '20s.

13:47:40 They had 5- or 10-foot easements in the pack which by
13:47:42 the time I got here, was certainly after World War II,
13:47:48 that everyone had a fence on it, had a pool deck on
13:47:51 it, had a shed on it, and the sewer department, we
13:47:54 weren't wastewater sewer then, spent millions and
13:47:56 millions of dollars moving -- building additional
13:48:00 lines in the street, having people reconnect to them.
13:48:03 Some really didn't want to.
13:48:04 Some people, lines were accessible.
13:48:08 Most weren't.
13:48:09 So this is a large problem.
13:48:11 What we were trying to do, though, was to come with
13:48:16 some kind of middle ground that said, if you will, for
13:48:19 lack of a better word, pull that pipe, then presumably
13:48:24 it might be okay for the next 50 or 100 years.
13:48:28 However, we ended up with our legal guys, and they
13:48:32 say, you can't really do that.
13:48:33 And it really isn't a good idea.
13:48:35 Unfortunately, there have been some departments and
13:48:39 some people have been saying, well, we are not going
13:48:41 to object to the vacating because I know they are
13:48:43 going to do it anyway.

13:48:44 There is a real reason for sanitary, for water, and
13:48:48 for stormwater, if these are lines that are in the
13:48:51 back alley, in a right-of-way, that serve more than
13:48:55 one person.
13:48:56 If somebody is vacating the whole block and they are
13:48:58 the only client at that point, that's a different
13:49:01 matter.
13:49:02 In a case like this, where there is this flow-through
13:49:06 to other places, it's not a good idea.
13:49:08 All I can really tell you is we were trying to come to
13:49:10 some middle ground.
13:49:11 It doesn't appear like we can do that.
13:49:13 This is our problem.
13:49:14 This is what we have to deal with.
13:49:16 So I'll be happy to answer any questions.
13:49:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I know solid waste started buying
13:49:21 smaller trucks.
13:49:22 I mean, that was their response needing to maneuver in
13:49:27 smaller spaces.
13:49:29 Is there another piece of equipment that you could use
13:49:31 that would accomplish the same thing that would work
13:49:34 in a smaller space?

13:49:38 >>RALPH METCALF: Actually, somewhere just a little
13:49:40 north of a person with a hand shovel, there are some
13:49:43 very small things.
13:49:44 But as deep as some of these lines are, it's almost
13:49:47 impossible, for a very shallow line it's possible.
13:49:49 When you get a line that's past five or six feet deep,
13:49:53 and many of those are, you need a larger machine to do
13:49:57 this.
13:49:57 So it's almost impossible.
13:50:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: One other potentially creative
13:50:04 solution.
13:50:04 Could the property owner that's making the request put
13:50:09 some kind of funding in escrow to -- the image you
13:50:14 just showed is an alley in Ybor with the permanent
13:50:18 gates, blah-blah-blah, to help pick up the tab on work
13:50:20 that would need to be done in the future, so that it
13:50:23 would sort of keep the city from having to put out
13:50:25 money to do whatever has to be done in the future?
13:50:30 >>RALPH METCALF: I think that's a legal -- probably a
13:50:33 legal question.
13:50:37 Somewhere else would need it before we do that but
13:50:39 that would a legal question.

13:50:41 We were looking for some sort of compromise.
13:50:42 We literally talked about having the person be
13:50:46 responsible for the line, right up to there, and it
13:50:50 doesn't appear like that's a legal solution.
13:50:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano, then councilman
13:51:01 Dingfelder.
13:51:01 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: How deep is that pipe?
13:51:03 >>> On this particular one? I don't know.
13:51:05 I think it's about five feet deep.
13:51:07 So it right on the edge of what you can do.
13:51:09 And the danger, of course, is even if nothing is built
13:51:12 right there then within that setback -- and this is
13:51:15 what we have seen, and we could bring in pictures and
13:51:17 we could stack them three feet high, where five years,
13:51:21 ten years, 15 years later, if there are large things
13:51:24 built very close, and at that point they are very hard
13:51:27 to protect.
13:51:27 The only other way to do it is what's called a trench
13:51:30 box, and that's a big heavy piece of equipment that's
13:51:33 sort of like putting a caisson or sheet piles.
13:51:38 It's very expensive, very slow and very impactful.
13:51:40 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: But the piece of equipment that

13:51:42 you show there, how deep will that go?
13:51:45 >>RALPH METCALF: A piece like that will go probably
13:51:50 eight, nine feet deep.
13:51:51 >> There is a smaller piece of equipment.
13:51:53 Do you have such a piece of equipment?
13:51:56 >>> We have some rubber tired ones that most of those,
13:51:59 once you get down past about four feet, they are
13:52:03 really at the edge of what they can do safely, the
13:52:07 work.
13:52:11 When you get to an actual ten feet, and especially
13:52:14 when the consequence of hitting something are fairly
13:52:17 serious, it gets very tough to do.
13:52:21 It's a really unusual way to have to work for
13:52:24 wastewater.
13:52:25 And stormwater is even worse because their pipes are
13:52:28 bigger.
13:52:29 >> Have you experienced this problem before?
13:52:31 >>> Oh, yes.
13:52:32 >> That's why you say you cannot go in there?
13:52:35 >>> Absolutely.
13:52:36 When we have had to literally go in with wheelbarrows
13:52:41 and shovels, run bypass pumps for weeks because you

13:52:45 couldn't get back there.
13:52:46 And those are very expensive, very inefficient ways to
13:52:48 have to do things.
13:52:50 A lot of those things we have inherited.
13:52:54 Just not getting any more of those.
13:52:56 There really is a reason that we object to these.
13:52:58 >> It's not -- in the future if you have to go in
13:53:03 there?
13:53:05 >>> Certainly for us it's not adding to the
13:53:10 troublesome places we have now.
13:53:13 Most of the places where they are older places where
13:53:17 there has been encroachment, those are the ones where
13:53:20 the pipes are the oldest and those are the ones that
13:53:22 potentially are going to be the ones creating the
13:53:25 problem.
13:53:25 In the modern days you don't see this.
13:53:27 The lines are in the streets.
13:53:29 So this is generally an older stock.
13:53:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Metcalf.
13:53:40 I guess something I'm confused about, Ralph, is right
13:53:49 now we have ten feet, right?
13:53:51 I think that's what this one is.

13:53:54 And we have a right-of-way, which is a legally
13:54:01 defined, keeps them from doing anything.
13:54:04 >>RALPH METCALF: Yes.
13:54:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm never very keen on vacating, so
13:54:11 in some ways I like this new policy, just as another
13:54:15 tool to avoid vacating.
13:54:16 But I'm a little confused with regard to what you are
13:54:19 saying.
13:54:20 Because if you have got ten feet, and if you reserve
13:54:22 and retain an easement and the ordinance precludes
13:54:26 them from putting any hard structures on there, it
13:54:28 doesn't seem like they could do anything that they
13:54:30 couldn't do right now.
13:54:33 And just as an example, and this one in particular,
13:54:38 they are showing a wall right now on the edge of this
13:54:40 particular alley that we are talking about.
13:54:43 So they already got a wall right on that property
13:54:45 line.
13:54:46 The other side can put a wall up on that property line
13:54:48 and you have the same thing that you are showing in
13:54:50 your drawing.
13:54:51 >>RALPH METCALF: Except if you bonk a wall it's easier

13:54:54 to replace the wall than a garage or a house.
13:54:57 And that's what happens.
13:55:00 If you look at this picture, before we hit a
13:55:03 structure -- and granted this is just a typical
13:55:06 picture -- you have 16 feet, because there's a
13:55:09 three-foot setback on either side of that 10-foot
13:55:13 right-of-way.
13:55:13 So if we hit a fence or work around a fence, that
13:55:21 could be the price of doing business and we have to
13:55:23 replace that or whatever.
13:55:25 It's not uncommon for us to move a wooden privacy
13:55:30 fence.
13:55:30 And if it's a tree that's there, we may have to go do
13:55:35 some careful hand digging or be very careful.
13:55:38 But --
13:55:38 >> Well, maybe that's the answer then.
13:55:42 I don't even know about the particulars of this one.
13:55:44 I don't know how I am going to vote on it.
13:55:46 But maybe that's sort of middle ground policywise.
13:55:49 If we draft these ordinances, and if your people have
13:55:51 a problem with it, maybe the ordinance includes a
13:55:54 preclusion of building too close to the future

13:55:58 property line.
13:55:59 And granted, by vacating, we are moving that property
13:56:02 line into the middle of the alley.
13:56:05 But maybe, not only could you retain an easement, for
13:56:09 the alley, but maybe we would -- the ordinance would
13:56:12 expressly preclude them from building within X number
13:56:17 of feet.
13:56:18 So, in other words, if the building line would stay
13:56:20 where it is right now, they wouldn't get any closer to
13:56:22 your pipe. If that was the case, you might be okay
13:56:25 with it, right?
13:56:28 >>> Uh-huh.
13:56:28 And what I was told by the legal folks is we can't do
13:56:31 that.
13:56:33 To me, if I don't have a building within 16 feet,
13:56:37 that's iffy but I can deal with it.
13:56:40 Closer than that, then it becomes a real problem.
13:56:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't know Julia or others?
13:56:48 >> Let's hear from legal.
13:56:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Did you hear my question?
13:56:50 Maybe it's something that just hasn't come up.
13:56:53 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.

13:56:55 I was actually the attorney that got involved in this,
13:56:57 when this issue came up at the last public hearing, as
13:57:00 to whether or not we could obligate this property
13:57:04 owner to reinforce this pipe in order to move forward
13:57:06 with the vacation.
13:57:07 I just want to make that clear.
13:57:09 And I feel very fairly comfortable with telling you,
13:57:13 that's not an appropriate condition for vacation, but
13:57:18 as I think you are hearing the big issue relates to
13:57:21 wherein your setback lines are from your easements,
13:57:23 and the question would be whether or not you could
13:57:26 obligate in essence a larger easement area as opposed
13:57:30 to what the right-of-way area is.
13:57:34 And to think about it a little bit, potentially you
13:57:37 could put that kind of petition in your vacation
13:57:41 ordinance which requires a separate deed of ordinance.
13:57:44 That would have to be a voluntary action in order to
13:57:45 avoid any other issues.
13:57:48 >> But they are voluntarily coming in asking for the
13:57:50 vacation.
13:57:51 >> Speaking of the cost, because that's something I
13:57:53 would want to think a little about and if that's

13:57:55 something that City Council wanted to consider, we
13:57:57 could have us go back and take a look at that.
13:58:00 But getting back to the original point, and as Mr.
13:58:04 Dingfelder indicated, there's a general matter when
13:58:06 you have these kinds of facilities and you have an
13:58:08 objection and it seems to be problematic, your whole
13:58:11 purpose is making a determination on a vacation
13:58:14 petition whether or not that is property that's still
13:58:17 necessary for the public benefit.
13:58:18 And that's really the analysis you need to be going
13:58:21 through and you now have a situation, and it is a
13:58:23 little bit new.
13:58:25 We have tried to work these things on in the past that
13:58:27 the departments are really finding how big a problem
13:58:30 this is, and wanted you to be aware of the fact that
13:58:32 they are going to take a position on these vacations,
13:58:36 that if they have access facility that they have very
13:58:39 practical reasons why they want to object to that, and
13:58:42 that's the evidence of you would be considering
13:58:45 whether or not to grant this vacation or not.
13:58:48 All that being said, with this new issue coming up, is
13:58:51 that something you want us to take a look at?

13:58:53 We can go ahead and take a look at that.
13:58:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, my concern at this point is,
13:58:57 what I'm hearing, really we can't move forward with
13:59:00 this petition until you come back with some kind of
13:59:02 recommendation from a legal standpoint.
13:59:04 Because what I'm hearing the city staff said they
13:59:06 object right now to this.
13:59:08 And way heard them say in the past, council is going
13:59:13 to pass it anyway.
13:59:15 Is that what I heard you say earlier?
13:59:19 If you would come to the mike.
13:59:21 >>> There have been staff in various department whose
13:59:24 have not objected when they had facilities there,
13:59:27 because they felt like it was going to go through
13:59:30 anyway.
13:59:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And I take issue with that because
13:59:34 it's up to staff to bring us the correct information
13:59:36 so that we can make a decision that will not cause the
13:59:39 taxpayers any additional dollars, because it's city
13:59:43 right-of-way, city property.
13:59:45 We are vacating that out of courtesy, really.
13:59:49 So staff and administration need to be clear, and your

13:59:54 recommendation and give it to us, I think Julia said
13:59:57 earlier, with the facts and information that we can
13:59:59 make a sound and prudent decision.
14:00:02 >> Crystal clear.
14:00:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I will tell you now based on this I am
14:00:05 not going to support this petition until legal says
14:00:08 they can craft something that's going to help us that
14:00:10 we can move forward.
14:00:12 Okay?
14:00:13 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
14:00:16 You do really need to hear from petitioner prior to
14:00:19 taking any action.
14:00:22 In fact, the position we are in right now you have a
14:00:25 vacation petition in front of you, you have an
14:00:27 objection from staff, they have given you legitimate
14:00:30 reasons as to why it should be construed as legitimate
14:00:33 reasons as to why the vacation petition does not meet
14:00:35 the requirements, but is the right-of-way necessary
14:00:41 for the public interest?
14:00:42 And you can take action, if City Council chooses to
14:00:45 want to explore another option given the testimony,
14:00:49 you hear from the petitioner at that point in time,

14:00:52 you can ask the legal department to take a look at it.
14:00:54 But where you are, you need to take some kind of
14:00:56 action on the vacation petition in front of you.
14:00:59 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mrs. Cole, don't run away.
14:01:03 It's going to be an advantage of profit development to
14:01:07 have this thing vacated, correct?
14:01:10 >>> To be honest, I am not really familiar with the
14:01:12 reasons behind the vacation.
14:01:16 I suggest you want to hear from them.
14:01:18 >> The reason I'm asking that, if we put a special
14:01:22 provision on there, if it's vacated, and the city
14:01:24 needs to come in there and repair this, some of that
14:01:28 cost could be borne by the person asking for the
14:01:31 vacating.
14:01:32 >>JULIA COLE: That's the problem.
14:01:35 You can't legally require a petitioner for vacation to
14:01:41 pay some kind of remuneration in order to receive
14:01:44 their vacation.
14:01:45 So you have to be very careful about that.
14:01:48 And this is a pipe that is used by the public, and
14:01:52 it's not just by this property owner.
14:01:53 I understand that this is used by other adjoining

14:01:57 property owners, not just this property owner.
14:01:59 I think it would be a little bit of a different
14:02:02 situation if it was this property owner.
14:02:04 But you have one in use by the general public that you
14:02:07 heard testimony that it would be problematic if you
14:02:11 vacate this, put an easement on it, because it would
14:02:13 be very difficult for us to get in there and to
14:02:15 maintain it.
14:02:16 And as a general matter, you will not have assistance
14:02:24 for a public facility to pain maintain a pipe that's
14:02:26 part of a governmental interest and what we are
14:02:28 supposed to be doing.
14:02:29 So it creates a little bit of a sticky situation, but
14:02:32 that's really where you are legally.
14:02:34 >> Well, he wouldn't have to accept it.
14:02:36 He would have to accept it with that provision in
14:02:38 there.
14:02:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.
14:02:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's hear from the petitioner because
14:02:43 no need spend a lot of time on this issue if we can't
14:02:47 resolve it today.
14:02:48 Petitioner, would you come forward?

14:02:49 >>MARY MULHERN: I have one question before.
14:02:51 I don't know if Mr. Metcalf or somebody from zoning
14:02:55 can tell me.
14:02:56 But I'm looking at the overhead map.
14:03:00 What other properties share the use of that pipe?
14:03:12 >>> Actually, all the properties on either side for
14:03:15 the entire block.
14:03:16 So there would be several uses.
14:03:26 >> There's eight lots.
14:03:28 >> I think it's five.
14:03:31 I think there's five that are on there.
14:03:36 >>MARY MULHERN: I see.
14:03:37 >>> I think there's five users.
14:03:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:03:42 Petitioner.
14:03:44 >>> Terrance Bradford, Oakford Development.
14:03:49 Basically to refresh your memory the reason we want to
14:03:52 vacate is to stop the homeless from going in the
14:03:55 alley, drinking beer, doing drugs, doing whatever.
14:03:58 Since we have been to the property, they came over
14:04:03 there, crime went down, it's getting better.
14:04:07 Like I explained wastewater, we are not going to

14:04:10 improve the alley.
14:04:11 They are still going to have their easement and be
14:04:13 able to come in and do whatever they need to do.
14:04:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question.
14:04:19 I think we are trying to work with you.
14:04:21 If our legal department, and our wastewater staff can
14:04:25 come up with a condition that would say you can't
14:04:27 build -- you have to stay at the same setback that you
14:04:29 are right now, you can't encroach any closer than you
14:04:32 are right now, even if we vacate it, would you be
14:04:36 agreeable to exploring that type of condition?
14:04:38 >>> Yes.
14:04:40 But the thing is, the other owners, they are all fine
14:04:44 with it, but they don't like the other condition
14:04:47 awhile back saying that we have to be responsible for
14:04:49 the whole sewer line.
14:04:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, they are not going to go for
14:04:53 that, I'm sure.
14:04:54 And we are not trying to impose this additional sewer
14:04:56 improvement on you.
14:04:57 What I'm saying is, our legal department can explore
14:05:01 this option of nonencroachment, of limiting any

14:05:04 additional encroachment.
14:05:05 And if it's a self-imposed condition, perhaps
14:05:09 everybody could work with it.
14:05:11 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
14:05:17 Earlier chatting, I would want more time to explore
14:05:19 this, the only person you have petitioning for this
14:05:22 vacation, I guess, is the owners of lots 10 and 11.
14:05:28 But in order to do what we are talking about, you
14:05:32 wouldn't be able to get just easements from lots 10
14:05:34 and 11.
14:05:35 Would you need to get an easement from all these other
14:05:37 lot owners and they are not in front of you.
14:05:39 So that does create a level of complication, and how
14:05:42 you would deal with all of that.
14:05:44 Because once you vacate, you are not just vacating for
14:05:49 this property owner.
14:05:50 You are vacating it for the entire portion of the
14:05:53 subdivision.
14:05:53 >> We have done that before where the ordinance
14:05:56 creates -- also creates the easement. Let's say we
14:05:59 don't have to deal with that setback issue.
14:06:04 A lot of times your ordinances address the easement

14:06:08 and retain the easement.
14:06:09 >>> But you are adding additional property.
14:06:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me suggest --
14:06:14 >>JULIA COLE: The area would have to be larger than
14:06:17 the right-of-way area.
14:06:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Time is important in getting to more
14:06:20 than one case today.
14:06:21 We are not going to resolve this today.
14:06:23 It's clear we are not going to resolve this.
14:06:25 What I suggest is that petitioner meet with our legal
14:06:27 and with staff and come back with us with a
14:06:30 recommendation how we can work.
14:06:31 You are not going to resolve it today.
14:06:33 I'm telling you.
14:06:34 So no use spending the time trying to resolve it.
14:06:38 Let staff and our attorney go back with the
14:06:40 petitioner, they work out and come back.
14:06:42 So can we entertain a motion?
14:06:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Question on the motion.
14:06:48 This is a continued public hearing.
14:06:50 Is this the second time we are asking staff and the
14:06:52 petitioner to do this same thing?

14:06:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yeah.
14:06:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The difference is circumstances.
14:06:59 The last time it was try to make them fix the pipe.
14:07:03 We have all agreed we can't go there.
14:07:04 Now we are trying something else.
14:07:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
14:07:08 Do we have a second?
14:07:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: How much time do you need, Julia?
14:07:11 How much time do you need?
14:07:14 >>JULIA COLE: I can go out and speak with him right
14:07:15 now and tell him what I see as the issues.
14:07:20 A month would be best for me.
14:07:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 30 days.
14:07:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.
14:07:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we have a motion by councilman
14:07:28 Dingfelder to continue this for 30 days, and staff and
14:07:32 petitioner and legal will go out and explore, but come
14:07:38 back to us in 30 days.
14:07:40 Yes.
14:07:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, if we can ask for a
14:07:42 specific date and time.
14:07:43 And also the petitioner would have to agree to that.

14:07:47 And that is Mr. Clifford, the continuance of his
14:07:51 request because he does have a right to vote it up or
14:07:53 down.
14:07:54 Sir, if you could.
14:07:55 What date would that be?
14:07:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: February 19th, sir.
14:08:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: At 1:30 in the afternoon.
14:08:05 Sir, do you agree to that continuance?
14:08:08 >>> Yes.
14:08:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:08:09 That's a motion.
14:08:09 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:08:11 Opposes?
14:08:15 That was seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
14:08:19 Item 84.
14:08:21 I'm sorry, yes, sir.
14:08:22 >>> I'm sorry, in the interest of everybody's time and
14:08:25 me going back to work, on number 85, I lived there for
14:08:30 15 years.
14:08:31 This gentleman is going to improve on it.
14:08:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's not open yet.
14:08:34 >>> I know.

14:08:35 I'm just telling you that.
14:08:47 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Is he in favor or against?
14:08:50 >> I don't know.
14:08:50 I don't think we should know.
14:08:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Need to move to open all the items.
14:08:56 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
14:08:57 >> Second.
14:08:57 (Motion carried).
14:08:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 84.
14:09:00 >>ERIC COTTON: Land Development Coordination, here on
14:09:03 V 09-04, alcoholic beverages at 610 south Armenia
14:09:08 Avenue.
14:09:08 Petitioner is requesting a 2(COP-R) for a small venue.
14:09:13 The development review committee finds it
14:09:17 inconsistent.
14:09:17 And I'll get to that in a moment.
14:09:19 There are a number of waivers that are spelled out in
14:09:21 the staff report.
14:09:23 He reduced the number of parking spaces from 38 to 25
14:09:26 to allow the maneuvering of solid waste vehicles in
14:09:29 the public right-of-way, to allow the reduction of
14:09:33 existing screening enclosure from 10 by 10 to 8 by 8,

14:09:37 allow screened in enclosure, to allow clearance for
14:09:43 existing vegetation on the property, to allow the
14:09:46 dumpster screen enclosure replacement, buffer and side
14:09:49 yard setback, and then the three normal waivers that
14:09:52 most people are asking for, the reduction in the
14:09:54 separation distance from selling alcoholic beverages
14:09:56 from residential uses to institutional uses.
14:10:01 The DRC found it inconsistent primarily because of
14:10:05 objections to the reduction of the required parking
14:10:07 spaces from 38 spaces down to 25 spaces.
14:10:12 They find the reduction to be excessive.
14:10:15 This is the pizza company on south Armenia.
14:10:20 The front of the building.
14:10:24 As you can tell on the overhead, they are the first
14:10:28 suite at the corner of the building facing Armenia.
14:10:32 There are some additional pictures of the site.
14:10:40 Any other questions, I will be happy to answer.
14:10:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This company primarily delivers.
14:10:46 Do you have any distinction in your zoning for
14:10:49 companies that deliver rather than restaurants that
14:10:52 attract people to the site?
14:10:55 >>> No, it's based on -- the parking requirements are

14:10:59 based on square footage and the calculations as you
14:11:02 enter the building code.
14:11:05 >> So it's based on the chairs or the size of their
14:11:07 space?
14:11:08 >>> Could be both.
14:11:09 If there is fixed seating based on the number of
14:11:12 chairs. If not fixed seating, based on the square
14:11:15 footage.
14:11:16 >> So in other words a company that primarily, you
14:11:18 know, makes it, delivers it, isn't distinguished from
14:11:22 a company that makes food and people come there?
14:11:24 >>> If the whole area is a kitchen the calculations
14:11:26 are different for kitchen, for instance.
14:11:28 If they have a seating area, then that would be
14:11:30 considered a restaurant.
14:11:34 >> Thank you.
14:11:35 >>> You're welcome.
14:11:38 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
14:11:40 department.
14:11:41 City of Tampa police department has no objections to
14:11:43 this wet zoning.
14:11:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?

14:11:48 >>> Joseph Diaz.
14:11:52 My office is 2522 West Kennedy Boulevard and I'm here
14:11:55 on behalf of petitioner Papa's Pizza doing business as
14:11:58 A Pizza Gourmet.
14:12:00 Council, I believe if you look at the report that was
14:12:03 prepared, all of the reviewing agencies have found the
14:12:07 application to be consistent, with the exception of
14:12:11 the transportation department.
14:12:14 Transportation department found the application to be
14:12:17 inconsistent because of the fact that under the code
14:12:21 given the uses that are in this structure, our portion
14:12:25 is the pizza.
14:12:26 Immediately behind us is Charles Schwartz piano.
14:12:29 Immediately behind that there is Hyde Park head loft.
14:12:33 Immediately behind that, which would be at the
14:12:35 easternmost end of the building, there's something
14:12:38 called Bauscher furniture.
14:12:40 Staff found it inconsistent, or at least
14:12:43 transportation found it inconsistent because of the
14:12:44 fact that we only have 25 spaces when the code
14:12:47 required 38.
14:12:49 Ms. Saul-Sena, as you pointed out, approximately 70%

14:12:52 of the volume of this business is done on a carry-out
14:12:56 basis or delivery basis.
14:13:00 What I want to point out is even though we are
14:13:02 requesting nine waivers, waiver number 1 is the one
14:13:07 that transportation objected to.
14:13:09 Waivers 2 through 6 all deal with solid waste and
14:13:13 solid waste has found no objection and has found our
14:13:17 application to be consistent.
14:13:20 Seven, eight and nine then deal with the separation
14:13:22 requirements as a result of the sale of alcoholic
14:13:24 beverages from either institutional uses, other wet
14:13:28 zonings, or residential properties.
14:13:33 The realities are, this business has been there about
14:13:37 ten and a half years, has been owned by my client for
14:13:42 about six and a half years, and the calculation that
14:13:45 would be made to the exact same whether or not the wet
14:13:50 zoning is approved -- and I'm telling you, we have
14:13:53 been there.
14:13:54 Parking is not going to change.
14:13:55 The use is not going to change.
14:14:04 Be the only thing that's going to happen is we will be
14:14:06 able to sell alcoholic beverages.

14:14:07 As officer Miller testified, the police department has
14:14:09 no objection.
14:14:11 What more can we tell you other than we have been
14:14:13 there for ten and a half years?
14:14:14 We have been a good neighbor.
14:14:15 I don't believe, I certainly don't know till a few
14:14:18 minutes from now, but I don't believe you are going to
14:14:20 see any opposition.
14:14:22 We respectfully request that you approve this.
14:14:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me raise one question.
14:14:30 And then Councilwoman Mulhern.
14:14:33 There's an objection by staff and Land Development
14:14:34 Coordination, no six foot wall is required.
14:14:39 Am I reading this right?
14:14:50 Is that accurate?
14:14:52 >>> It's the transportation issue.
14:14:59 >>MARY MULHERN: I was going to ask you what the hours
14:15:03 are, considering it looks like there's a lot of
14:15:05 businesses around there with parking that aren't going
14:15:08 to be open during the pizza hours.
14:15:13 But if this same business has been there all this
14:15:18 time, this is a question for zoning.

14:15:26 If it's been there for nine years, and the parking --
14:15:31 has the parking changed, parking requirements?
14:15:34 >>> No, ma'am.
14:15:36 The sell of alcohol was considered to be an increase
14:15:39 in intensity which would trigger the need -- to meet
14:15:42 the requirements unless waived by City Council.
14:15:44 >>MARY MULHERN: And is this beer and wine or
14:15:49 everything?
14:15:49 >>> Just beer and wine within the restaurant.
14:15:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:15:55 Anything else?
14:15:56 Finished?
14:16:02 This is a public hearing.
14:16:03 Anyone here wishes to address council on this
14:16:05 petition?
14:16:05 Anyone here wish to address council?
14:16:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
14:16:10 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
14:16:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:16:16 Council?
14:16:17 Okay.
14:16:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Mary.

14:16:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Do you want to read it?
14:16:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes, I'll read it.
14:16:29 An ordinance approving a special use permit S-2 for
14:16:32 alcoholic beverage sales, small venue, making lawful
14:16:35 the sale of beverages containing alcohol of more than
14:16:37 1% by weight and not more than 14% by weight and wins
14:16:42 regardless of alcoholic content beer and wine 2(COP-R)
14:16:46 for consumption on premises only in connection with a
14:16:49 restaurant business establishment on that certain lot,
14:16:52 plot or tract of land located at 610 south Armenia
14:16:56 Avenue, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described
14:16:59 in section 2 hereof, approving waivers as set forth
14:17:03 herein, waiving certain restrictions of distance based
14:17:06 upon certain findings, providing for repeal of all
14:17:09 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
14:17:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion has been made by councilman
14:17:15 Caetano, seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
14:17:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question, just clarification for
14:17:23 the staff.
14:17:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do we need to reopen?
14:17:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just was wondering if that red
14:17:30 square is the limit of the sale area.

14:17:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That sound evidentiary.
14:17:37 >>> Just an approximation.
14:17:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Sir.
14:17:40 Sir.
14:17:41 Excuse me, sir.
14:17:42 >>ERIC COTTON: I'm sorry.
14:17:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to reopen.
14:17:44 >>ERIC COTTON: I'm sorry.
14:17:46 >> So moved.
14:17:47 >> Second.
14:17:47 (Motion carried).
14:17:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sorry.
14:17:51 So it's not the entire long building.
14:17:53 It's pretty much the front third as you approximate
14:17:56 it.
14:17:56 >>ERIC COTTON: Correct.
14:18:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
14:18:01 Thank you.
14:18:01 Move to close.
14:18:02 >> Close.
14:18:04 (Motion carried).
14:18:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion on the floor.

14:18:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, I'm a little hesitant
14:18:11 on this one just because on the next block to the
14:18:13 west, we had a real controversy.
14:18:17 What was that deli that those young kids tried to open
14:18:20 a couple years ago?
14:18:25 In that neighborhood, right across Swann, came out
14:18:28 pretty strong against that little market, but I think
14:18:35 they got a temporary wet zoning and then it died
14:18:38 anyway.
14:18:39 But I guess maybe because this is another block to the
14:18:41 east, that's why Parkland hasn't come out necessarily
14:18:45 opposed to it.
14:18:46 Perhaps they will hear about it between first and
14:18:49 second reading and let us know how they feel about it.
14:18:52 But considering that it's only one third of this
14:18:54 entire building, I'll support it.
14:18:58 >>MARY MULHERN: That was a great little restaurant and
14:19:00 I was really disappointed as a resident of that
14:19:03 neighborhood that that young couple, family business,
14:19:08 went out of business because they couldn't get a wet
14:19:10 zoning.
14:19:11 So -- they went out of business before they got the

14:19:18 wet zoning.
14:19:20 But I think that -- I just want to comment to Mr.
14:19:25 Dingfelder that I think that especially a business
14:19:28 like this has been in our neighborhood for nine years,
14:19:30 and these times we have got to help them out.
14:19:32 I don't want all of our restaurants closing and just
14:19:36 getting more bars in Soho.
14:19:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's a motion on the floor.
14:19:41 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:19:43 Opposes?
14:19:44 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.
14:19:46 Second reading and adoption will be on February
14:19:48 5th at 9:30.
14:19:50 >>> JOSEPH DIAZ: The whole building is 8500 square
14:19:54 feet.
14:19:54 The area that we have applied for is 2,000.
14:19:56 So it's less than a fourth of the building.
14:19:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Even better.
14:20:00 Thank you, Joe.
14:20:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:20:06 Item 85.
14:20:13 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.

14:20:14 Case V-09-11, 4916 to 4920 South MacDill Avenue,
14:20:22 4(COP-R) in conjunction with a restaurant use.
14:20:28 The structure contains approximately 2,721 square
14:20:32 feet, stands 15 feet high, there are 33 parking spaces
14:20:35 provided on-site, 35 are required.
14:20:37 You will note in the waiver section that that is the
14:20:40 number one waiver that's listed.
14:20:41 The following three waivers listed are related to the
14:20:44 distance separation between the specified uses.
14:20:47 You will note on page 2 that we did have an
14:20:49 inconsistent finding from land development regarding
14:20:51 the buffer, which is mentioned in the previous case.
14:20:57 We have put the petitioners on notice.
14:21:01 Waivers are done administratively through the code, so
14:21:04 each petitioner will be applying for that buffer
14:21:06 waiver and will be considered, and the condition we
14:21:09 have placed with the petitioners is by second reading,
14:21:13 so if you are so inclined to approve these today based
14:21:15 on the general standards, that decision would be made
14:21:17 prior to second reading, and if for some reason the
14:21:20 buffer waivers are not approved, during second
14:21:23 reading, we can address that with council.

14:21:27 You will note on page 3 of the staff report, the
14:21:30 inconsistent finding from transportation, you can
14:21:33 actually ignore the last part of that.
14:21:36 All we need to be placed on the site plan is a note
14:21:39 stating that they are going to comply with chapter 22.
14:21:41 It's a basic statement.
14:21:43 I have spoken with the petitioner about that and he's
14:21:45 agreed to simply place the note on the petition.
14:21:48 As long as that note is placed on the site plan, that
14:21:52 objection goes away as well.
14:21:59 Just to show you briefly, this is the structure here.
14:22:02 MacDill and Marlin.
14:22:07 This is the establishment.
14:22:23 >> Officer Don Miller.
14:22:40 City of Tampa police department has no objections to
14:22:42 this wet zoning.
14:22:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
14:22:54 >> Grace Yang, I am at 201 North Franklin Street.
14:22:57 I have been sworn.
14:22:58 And I am the authorized agent and the representative
14:23:02 for the petitioner who is Mr. Lynn love.
14:23:05 Mr. Love is here with me today. He is the property

14:23:08 owner.
14:23:13 My client has not been immune to this.
14:23:15 He has operated Lynn's Auto Sales for 22 years.
14:23:20 It's currently an auto sales dealership.
14:23:22 >> If you are going to do a plug, it's Love.
14:23:28 >> Excuse me, what did I say?
14:23:31 >> Lynn's.
14:23:32 >>> Love's Auto Sales.
14:23:34 Thank you.
14:23:34 He's been there for 22 years.
14:23:36 People aren't buying cars like they used to.
14:23:39 We see headlines in the news that there are car
14:23:41 dealerships closing, and Mr. Love has dreamed of
14:23:45 opening up a restaurant for a time.
14:23:47 And he's decided that in spite of the tough economy,
14:23:51 right now, or because of the tough economy, he wants
14:23:53 to redevelop.
14:23:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Wait just a minute.
14:23:57 Is anyone here to address council on this issue?
14:24:00 Anyone here to address council?
14:24:01 Anyone in opposition?
14:24:04 Anyone opposes? Okay.

14:24:06 Councilman Dingfelder.
14:24:07 >>JOHN DINGELDER: You are adjacent to two pretty
14:24:14 active neighborhood associations.
14:24:16 Have you had a chance to speak with them?
14:24:18 >>> We notified three neighborhood associations.
14:24:20 The only one we heard had concerns was the Ballast
14:24:23 Point neighborhood association and I did have e-mails
14:24:26 with Sally Flynn, the president of the association.
14:24:29 Mr. Love contacted, I believe, Joey Miller, the
14:24:32 vice-president of the association.
14:24:33 And I have spoken on the phone with Hank Annis of the
14:24:37 association as well as some of the nearby residents.
14:24:54 We have an e-mail from Sally.
14:24:56 She's okay with it.
14:24:57 Okay.
14:24:58 Thank you.
14:25:19 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone)
14:25:20 Where the dumpster was and the solid waste entrance on
14:25:23 there, their side street on Marlin as opposed to
14:25:27 MacDill, is there anything we can do to change
14:25:31 that?
14:25:31 Is that a city requirement?

14:25:34 >>> The proposed placement of the dumpster is
14:25:36 something -- is something that came up after the
14:25:39 development review committee discussions, and where
14:25:42 the dumpster is being proposed is where the city solid
14:25:44 waste department has indicated that they would like
14:25:47 the dumpster to be placed.
14:25:53 If we could show it on the Elmo.
14:25:55 It is on Marlin.
14:25:58 It's on Marlin right now.
14:26:17 Here's Marlin Avenue.
14:26:18 And over here is where the dumpster enclosure is being
14:26:24 proposed.
14:26:24 Here's the parking lot where he is.
14:26:29 This is a location based on what solid waste had
14:26:32 requested.
14:26:33 It will be enclosed and locked up per code, so that as
14:26:37 you are driving, and if you are on Marlin you will not
14:26:40 be able to see the dumpster during normal business
14:26:43 hours, or during the daytime, except during collection
14:26:46 days.
14:26:54 Because of the way the parking lot is configured and
14:26:56 the space constrictions, by doing it this way you

14:27:00 minimize the number of parking spaces lost.
14:27:02 You will also see because of the way the dumpster is,
14:27:04 it's a natural barrier to any vehicle traffic coming
14:27:08 in from customers.
14:27:09 So all of the vehicular traffic from restaurant
14:27:12 customers is going to be directed off and on from
14:27:17 MacDill.
14:27:19 In locating it here, the only way to access it is for
14:27:23 the garbage truck to collect the dumpster.
14:27:26 It's just a natural barrier.
14:27:27 Nobody can get in.
14:27:29 >>MARY MULHERN: So it was our solid waste that
14:27:32 directed --
14:27:33 >>> That had access to locate the dumpster there --
14:27:37 asked to us locate the dumpster there.
14:27:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Maybe there's someone here from solid
14:27:41 waste.
14:27:44 If you have already talked to them about this and they
14:27:46 are okay with it, I don't need to hear from them.
14:27:48 But this neighborhood association did have questions,
14:27:57 and even if they are not here I think we should
14:27:58 address them. If you talked to them.

14:28:01 >> I know they are not happy with where the dumpster
14:28:04 currently is. They were asking if we could try to
14:28:06 reposition the dumpster so that the garbage truck
14:28:08 would come on and off from MacDill.
14:28:10 But I believe perhaps somebody from solid waste can
14:28:15 address why it's not a good alternative to have it --
14:28:21 >>MARY MULHERN: Let me address my other questions and
14:28:22 then we can hear from them.
14:28:25 The other question was about the masonry wall?
14:28:27 >>> Yes, I did discuss the masonry wall issue with the
14:28:30 property owner.
14:28:31 Currently there's a 6-foot tall frame fence on this
14:28:35 property line here.
14:28:38 There's a six-foot high fence here that separates Mr.
14:28:48 Love's property from residential property to the east.
14:28:52 Mr. Love has agreed -- and I have talked to him about
14:28:55 removing that six-foot high fence and replacing it
14:28:59 with a six foot high masonry wall per code.
14:29:02 So we will be addressing that.
14:29:04 >>MARY MULHERN: The other question is a liquor license
14:29:07 and they want to limit to the beer and wine.
14:29:16 The hours of operation.

14:29:17 That was the last thing.
14:29:18 They just want to know what the hours of operation
14:29:20 are.
14:29:21 And then I guess that's just a question with
14:29:26 petitioner.
14:29:27 Are you willing to reduce this to just beer and wine,
14:29:30 and then what their hours would be?
14:29:33 >>> Grace Yang: I had Mr. Love come with me because I
14:29:37 wanted him to be able to explain his business concept.
14:29:39 It's going to hopefully be a new restaurant called
14:29:41 artifacts.
14:29:42 I wanted him to be able to explain the concept to you
14:29:44 and explain why we are trying to ask council for
14:29:47 approval of a full liquor 4(COP-R) zoning.
14:29:49 >>MARY MULHERN: So he's going to address us?
14:29:52 >>> Yes.
14:29:53 >>MARY MULHERN: And the hours, too.
14:29:55 So can you tell me if there's some reason why they
14:29:59 have to have the dumpster in that spot, and access
14:30:03 from Marlin instead of MacDill?
14:30:07 And I know that MacDill is not that far south it's
14:30:16 not that busy on MacDill.

14:30:17 >>> Solid waste.
14:30:23 The corner of MacDill and Marlin right here.
14:30:41 >>MARY MULHERN: We are looking from Marlin.
14:30:46 >> This is MacDill on the north.
14:30:48 Due to the configuration of the parking lot, the
14:30:53 45-degree angle parking, the dumpster -- the truck
14:30:56 wouldn't be able to exit or enter off of MacDill
14:31:00 into the property.
14:31:02 >> Because of the little --
14:31:05 >>> The configuration here.
14:31:11 There's a huge overhead wire, telephone pole right at
14:31:14 the drive entrance.
14:31:17 Also there's a 15-foot buffer requirement for the
14:31:19 dumpster.
14:31:20 And there is trees all along the rear of the building
14:31:25 itself.
14:31:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Probably not the entry feature that
14:31:30 he's envisioning as well.
14:31:34 The presentation from MacDill probably doesn't
14:31:36 want the dumpster.
14:31:39 >>> Well, it would be a hazard for the truck backing
14:31:42 out onto MacDill.

14:31:43 We tried to minimize.
14:31:47 It's in front of a commercial property, the dumpster
14:31:49 location right now.
14:31:50 And in order to keep the number of parking spots that
14:31:53 petitioner is requesting, this is the only place that
14:31:55 we could put it.
14:31:58 >>MARY MULHERN: So this is more of with the
14:32:04 petitioner, the layout.
14:32:05 It wasn't just you.
14:32:06 Okay.
14:32:07 One other question, just since you showed us that
14:32:09 picture.
14:32:10 Doesn't look like there actually are any curbs so it
14:32:14 seems you could put a driveway wherever you want.
14:32:17 But is that hanging wire all the way on MacDill?
14:32:27 >>> Is that on the screen?
14:32:31 There's a pole here.
14:32:32 There's a pole in the middle of the parking lot.
14:32:34 Then there's a huge one out front.
14:32:36 And there's all wires going along.
14:32:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The only question I had was the
14:32:47 hours of operation for the neighborhood association.

14:32:54 Without giving Lynn Love's entire plan, what are the
14:32:57 hours of operation?
14:32:58 >>> I did talk to Mr. Love about the hours.
14:33:00 He'S certainly not trying to stay open till two or
14:33:04 three in the morning.
14:33:05 He does hope this to be a full-fledged restaurant
14:33:07 serving the neighborhood.
14:33:08 We talked about potential hours.
14:33:10 We were thinking, yeah, that's going to depend on how
14:33:12 the business does and what the business operation is
14:33:15 going to support.
14:33:16 But preliminarily we were thinking about hours from
14:33:21 Sunday through Thursday, until midnight, and Friday
14:33:23 and Saturday until one.
14:33:27 Certainly not anything such as two or three in the
14:33:29 morning.
14:33:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Saul-Sena.
14:33:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Have you spoken to neighbors who
14:33:33 are immediately adjacent to, behind you?
14:33:38 >>> Grace Yang: Yes.
14:33:40 We do have a letter of support from the neighbors,
14:33:43 from the residents directly behind us.

14:33:46 Here is the letter that I will produce into the
14:33:48 record.
14:33:50 And I can put it up here.
14:33:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is a letter from the Yoakums
14:33:57 who live at 3014 Marlin and 3013 Marlin, and under
14:34:04 their item 4, hours of operation, it says, we notice
14:34:09 that all these other restaurants, Bern's, Outback and
14:34:13 Bonefish, all close around ten on weekdays and eleven
14:34:17 on weekends.
14:34:17 What you are proposing is two hours later in this time
14:34:19 slot.
14:34:20 Could you close it earlier?
14:34:23 They close at 10:00 weekdays, 11:00 weekends.
14:34:30 Could you do midnight on Friday, Saturday, and 11:00
14:34:32 on the other nights?
14:34:33 >>> I would need to defer to Mr. Love on that.
14:34:39 We did get the letter.
14:34:41 And I have exchanged e-mails with John and Mary
14:34:45 Yoakum.
14:34:46 Mr. Love has also talked with them about their
14:34:49 concern.
14:34:49 >> Did you consider the hours that they set?

14:34:53 They own property that's immediately adjacent to all
14:34:55 three properties.
14:35:00 >>> Yes.
14:35:01 We did discuss the hours.
14:35:02 And that's why we were thinking, we don't really know
14:35:05 until the restaurant opens how it might function.
14:35:07 But we were thinking preliminarily Monday through
14:35:10 Thursday -- Sunday through Thursday midnight and then
14:35:16 1 a.m. on Fridays and Saturdays but I can ask him for
14:35:20 his thoughts.
14:35:21 That we do have a letter, a lot of other letters, but
14:35:24 this is from Della Sanchez who is living and renting
14:35:29 in the Yoakums house at 3013 Marlin and she's in full
14:35:35 support of the restaurant, and the full liquor use.
14:35:37 So that was something that we wanted to put in there
14:35:39 as well, as the affected tenant living in that house.
14:35:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To me, the property owner who owns
14:35:47 three properties who could be gone when the lease is
14:35:50 over.
14:35:55 >> Do you want to put that into the record?
14:35:58 >>> Yes.
14:35:58 I have this and a bunch of other letters to put into

14:36:01 the record.
14:36:02 I can put them all in together.
14:36:03 But if it's all right with council I would like to
14:36:05 invite Mr. Love up to industry his restaurant for you
14:36:09 all.
14:36:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Love, come up.
14:36:14 >>> Good afternoon.
14:36:15 My name is Lynn Love.
14:36:17 I do own the property.
14:36:19 I'm the petitioner.
14:36:20 I have had my business on this location for 22 years.
14:36:22 It's my desire to convert my automobile dealership
14:36:26 into a full service restaurant.
14:36:29 And if you will excuse my glasses, I know sometimes it
14:36:31 has a tendency to look a little rude to look over the
14:36:35 glasses but my eyes are -- if you will excuse my
14:36:38 glasses, I have a few notes.
14:36:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I do that weekly and I never worry.
14:36:44 [ Laughter ]
14:36:45 >>> I do have a couple of items.
14:36:47 These are sample menus and drink specials.
14:36:51 I would like to relax just for a minute and try to get

14:36:55 my concept across to you.
14:36:57 The idea of the restaurant is an archaeological,
14:37:03 explorer travelers theme in nature, and hence the
14:37:05 title of the restaurant is Artifacts.
14:37:09 Our goal is to provide a family type restaurant with
14:37:15 an eclectic design.
14:37:18 We have antiques and would expect that the decor would
14:37:20 be mail made up of some original and some replica such
14:37:25 as Egyptian antiques, eastern hammered copper, fishing
14:37:30 equipment, old books, oil paintings, we have some
14:37:34 Grecian columns that are concrete, World War II
14:37:37 memorabilia, some original photographs, we have gas
14:37:41 masks and things of that nature.
14:37:43 We feel like our close proximity to the Air Force Base
14:37:47 would be a large part of our support for our lunch
14:37:49 business.
14:37:51 We also have a vintage collection of national
14:37:53 geographic maps of that we envision to be inlaid into
14:37:58 the bar.
14:37:58 By the way, this restaurant is focused primarily as a
14:38:01 restaurant.
14:38:02 There is a separate section of a bar in the floor plan

14:38:05 which would include approximately 15 seats for the
14:38:09 bar.
14:38:11 We envision having served in the evening on an
14:38:17 eclectic collection of China and crystal, expect to
14:38:21 have tablecloths on the tables, and at the same time,
14:38:25 your kids might be served on mac and cheese out of a
14:38:28 military mess kit or something of that nature.
14:38:31 So we do expect it to be a variety of items.
14:38:34 We think it's an exciting concept.
14:38:36 We also envision that perhaps on the weekend we would
14:38:38 sponsor a little league team on a Saturday afternoon,
14:38:41 and we also have concepts that would include a
14:38:43 father-daughter brunch or mother-son brunch on Sunday
14:38:48 afternoons and would hope to be dog friendly on our
14:38:51 patio on the weekends.
14:38:54 I know there are some concerns between the uses of
14:38:58 beer and wine and alcohol, but quite frankly our
14:39:01 concept depends on the alcohol because we do have a
14:39:04 desire to have specialty drinks and cock tails that
14:39:07 would reflect items from around the world and drinks
14:39:10 that would be reflective of around the world.
14:39:13 We certainly, I think I can bank on my reputation for

14:39:18 the neighborhood.
14:39:18 I have been a member of this neighborhood for over 22
14:39:20 years and quieted frankly spend more time in my
14:39:22 business than I do at my home.
14:39:27 In conclusion, concerns about land use with the
14:39:31 Yoakums, I can say that they are my neighbors.
14:39:34 I do consider them to be friendly.
14:39:36 I think our building is situated the best possible
14:39:40 location on the site.
14:39:41 The building is in the farthest corner of the
14:39:44 property, is not close to the neighborhood area, is
14:39:46 not in the center of the property.
14:39:47 Could you not build this building further away from
14:39:49 the residential uses.
14:39:51 We do agree to put up the six-foot masonry wall.
14:39:54 We do comply with the eight-foot landscape buffer that
14:39:57 is part of the Yoakum's property across from part of
14:40:00 their property.
14:40:01 And we are willing to conform.
14:40:06 On the topic of hours as a business owner, I hate to
14:40:08 restrict my hours not knowing.
14:40:09 I think the market will dictate.

14:40:11 That obviously we are not going to stay open two or
14:40:13 three hours later if there's no business.
14:40:15 I would like to inject that I think Tampa as vibrant
14:40:20 as it can be, our area is no different.
14:40:25 We have other events that we would like to support
14:40:27 after the fact.
14:40:28 If an event ends at 10 or 10:30 we would like to be
14:40:31 able to provide a meal and cocktails for those who
14:40:33 wish to have that on the way home.
14:40:38 Any questions.
14:40:39 And I would like to ask your permission for the use of
14:40:43 the liquor license.
14:40:46 I expect that we will be responsible vendors.
14:41:02 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I think I could support 1:00.
14:41:06 The other was what?
14:41:08 >> 12 midnight.
14:41:10 >>> He's a small businessman.
14:41:12 The car business is down the tubes.
14:41:13 I'm sure if he's going to have an upscale restaurant
14:41:15 as he's saying here, that I definitely can support
14:41:18 that and I wish you luck.
14:41:24 >>> And my intentions are not to have a beer joint.

14:41:26 I don't have any interest in a beer joint.
14:41:29 You can come in and get a nice steak and Scotch.
14:41:32 We don't have loud music.
14:41:33 It's not a rock 'n roll club.
14:41:36 I don't have any personal interest in that.
14:41:38 I just want to clarify that because of concerns that
14:41:40 people have expressed.
14:41:43 >>MARY MULHERN: I just have one comment.
14:41:45 If your menu looks really good, but I might change the
14:41:48 name on the roasted shrimp with oyster mush.
14:41:59 I'm a good proofreader so I'm going to change it to
14:42:04 mash.
14:42:08 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Like that sign that the city put
14:42:10 up?
14:42:10 Okay.
14:42:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
14:42:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Love?
14:42:18 Nobody questions your dedication to -- you have been a
14:42:21 good neighbor in that area.
14:42:32 I got excited when Joseph said 11:00 o'clock.
14:42:35 I live half a block off another part of MacDill,
14:42:37 and, you know, I'm glad that the restaurants start

14:42:42 closing down on the weekdays around 10, 11 at night.
14:42:53 Friday, Saturday -- what did you say?
14:42:54 Friday and Saturday, 1 a.m. I'm fine with.
14:42:58 I agree.
14:42:58 After theater or that sort of thing.
14:43:01 But the Sunday through Thursday, it seems like 11
14:43:06 would be more neighborhood friendly.
14:43:10 >>> Mr. Dingfelder, if I could get your support, you
14:43:14 got it.
14:43:15 >> And the issues aren't me.
14:43:17 The issues are the neighborhood.
14:43:19 You got some questions from the neighborhood.
14:43:21 Let's go with Sunday through Thursday at eleven.
14:43:24 Friday and Saturday at one.
14:43:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions by council?
14:43:30 Close the public hearing.
14:43:31 >> So moved.
14:43:31 >> Second.
14:43:32 (Motion carried)
14:43:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Cole?
14:44:02 Rebecca?
14:44:04 Can you read the ordinance without changing the time?

14:44:07 >> Yes.
14:44:08 You just need to direct that it be added to that site
14:44:11 plan between first and second reading.
14:44:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So the record is clear I don't
14:44:17 believe there was anybody else who did want to speak
14:44:19 to ho did not have an opportunity, is that correct?
14:44:25 >> Mr. Metcalf was here earlier.
14:44:30 But he's gone.
14:44:31 >>MARY MULHERN: I am going to move this ordinance on
14:44:33 first reading, because there's been so much -- so many
14:44:38 letters of support.
14:44:40 But I do have a little bit of concern that you did
14:44:42 have some written correspondence.
14:44:44 So if we hear something different at the second
14:44:50 hearing, the vote may be different at least on my
14:44:54 part.
14:44:55 But I am going to move the ordinance with the note
14:44:58 that the hours of operation will be to close on
14:45:02 Monday -- Sunday through Thursday at 11 p.m., and
14:45:09 Friday and Saturday at 1 a.m
14:45:14 I move an ordinance approving a special use permit S-2
14:45:17 for alcoholic beverage sales, small venue and making

14:45:20 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol
14:45:24 regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine and
14:45:26 liquor, 4(COP-R), for consumption on premises only
14:45:31 with a restaurant business establishment at or from
14:45:34 that lot plot or tract of land located at 4916 through
14:45:38 4920 South MacDill Avenue, Tampa, Florida as more
14:45:41 particularly described in section 2 hereof approving
14:45:44 waivers asset forth herein, waiving certain
14:45:47 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
14:45:49 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
14:45:52 conflict, providing an effective date.
14:45:54 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
14:45:55 Question on the motion.
14:45:56 Mr. Dingfelder.
14:45:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm more comfortable with this,
14:45:58 because just double checking.
14:46:00 Salini's is open 10:00 on weak days and 11:00 on
14:46:09 weekends so and Bern's is, so I think you're in good
14:46:12 company.
14:46:12 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor?
14:46:15 Opposed?
14:46:16 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott absent at vote,

14:46:20 Miranda being absent, February 5, 2009 at 9:30.
14:46:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Open number 86.
14:46:39 >> So moved.
14:46:40 >> Second.
14:46:40 (Motion carried)
14:46:43 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:47:08 V-09 38 located at 5119 north Nebraska Avenue,
14:47:12 requesting a 4(COP-R) in conjunction with a restaurant
14:47:15 use.
14:47:18 The site is currently under construction for a
14:47:20 restaurant, as you will note on the site plan, called
14:47:24 Ella's restaurant, approximately 3,748 square feet.
14:47:29 The building had 25.6 feet. There are 14 parking
14:47:32 spaces shown on the site plan.
14:47:36 There are three waivers that are typical with these
14:47:38 types of requests, actually two waivers to the
14:47:43 specified usage, one for institutional and one for
14:47:46 residential usage.
14:47:47 The site lies within the Seminole Heights district,
14:47:53 not the historic district but within the Seminole
14:47:54 Heights area.
14:48:04 Nebraska just north of Matanzas.

14:48:12 Something happened with our system.
14:48:14 It labeled a street completely wrong.
14:48:20 It's south of Hillsborough, just so you know, on
14:48:23 Nebraska.
14:48:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Hopefully TPD or fire doesn't have
14:48:30 that problem.
14:48:30 >>> This is a site under construction, not too old.
14:48:35 A grand tree in the front.
14:48:39 This is looking north of Nebraska.
14:48:43 In the adjacent buildings.
14:48:46 And you can see also a grand tree there at a different
14:48:49 angle.
14:48:55 There's a couple issues that I would like to go
14:48:57 through with you.
14:48:59 Pages 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 include criteria for your
14:49:04 consideration, the general standards, and the
14:49:06 specified use standards for special uses for you to
14:49:09 consider in your approval or denial of this request.
14:49:14 What I do want to note to you, in speaking with
14:49:20 petitioner, was that there were some changes that she
14:49:25 would like to make, that she can go into further, if
14:49:28 you are so inclined to hear from her.

14:49:31 But this is the survey itself where the alcohol will
14:49:34 be sold.
14:49:35 You can see this is the building structure here.
14:49:38 You see first floor outdoor seating, this area here.
14:49:43 The site plan of record that the report was based on
14:49:49 stated that there were to be 16 outdoor seats.
14:49:59 According to the petitioner, she actually has now
14:50:01 reworked it with the architect.
14:50:02 She believes she can get 32 seats out there.
14:50:07 The thing is, that site plan actually isn't on file as
14:50:13 of right now.
14:50:15 What happens when you make a change like that, just as
14:50:17 in a rezoning or a different type of special use
14:50:20 application, you can see on the overhead again, this
14:50:28 is the area outside of the structure where it's turf
14:50:32 block and this is the Grant grand tee tree you saw in
14:50:34 the photos.
14:50:35 The idea apparently is to build some decking around
14:50:37 and place six benches on that deck.
14:50:42 What will also happen is an increase in the seating
14:50:45 area, the occupant load, so additional parking will be
14:50:49 required.

14:50:50 This is a double load parking lot.
14:50:54 She apparently will be able to fit a couple more
14:50:56 spaces in here as well.
14:50:58 The issue before you processwise is that these changes
14:51:01 would be considered substantial.
14:51:03 So what happens today is that if she wants to move
14:51:06 forward with those changes, it would require council
14:51:08 to continue the case.
14:51:11 In code it's a minimum of four weeks continuance for
14:51:13 her to address that on her site plan and make those
14:51:16 changes.
14:51:16 I will have to reroute it back to transportation,
14:51:18 parks, and landscape, and myself, zoning, to review
14:51:23 that site plan.
14:51:23 It's considered a substantial change.
14:51:25 However, the reason I bring this to your attention,
14:51:27 the only reason I presented this is because what I
14:51:29 understand sentence there's a number of people in the
14:51:31 audience who took off work today to come down and
14:51:34 speak on this petition, or at least give it a nod that
14:51:36 they are here, either in support or in opposition, and
14:51:39 I wanted to give you the opportunity to at least make

14:51:42 the decision of whether or not you wanted to hear from
14:51:44 the petitioner, even though you couldn't necessarily
14:51:47 approve it today based on those changes, but given
14:51:50 that there is a large audience here for this case, I
14:51:53 wanted to bring to the your attention.
14:51:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Real quickly.
14:51:57 I anticipate that a lot of these patrons to the
14:52:01 restaurant will come by foot or biking.
14:52:03 Do you give any kind of credence to people who don't
14:52:06 come by car when you are doing your calculations for
14:52:09 parking?
14:52:09 >>> The way the parking regulations are today, no.
14:52:13 They are based on the occupant load.
14:52:14 This is not just a parking issue, though. She will be
14:52:17 building a very large deck system.
14:52:20 >> I'm saying in the future when we move ahead with
14:52:23 zone based zoning and all that, can you say if it's
14:52:26 supposed to be a neighborhood serving restaurant, that
14:52:29 if people come by foot or bicycle, modify the parking
14:52:37 ratio?
14:52:38 >>> I will say you can see a completely different way
14:52:40 of calculating parking.

14:52:42 The very next meeting is next week.
14:52:49 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to move that we do take
14:52:53 public comment, but I also wanted to say that -- oh,
14:53:00 here is a little -- I was looking for some kind of
14:53:02 site map or, you know, overhead.
14:53:05 There is one here on the site plan.
14:53:08 But maybe if we do continue this next time --
14:53:14 >> Just to make it clear the graphic that you have is
14:53:16 correct. It's the street names that are not correct.
14:53:18 >>> We got mixed up here.
14:53:26 But I move that we hear from the public.
14:53:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Is she definitely going to change to
14:53:43 the 32 seating?
14:53:45 >>> I will let her address that.
14:53:48 >>GWEN MILLER: People here in opposition, what would
14:53:51 they be speaking on if she's going to change to the
14:53:54 new proposed date?
14:53:56 It isn't made yet.
14:53:57 She hasn't done it.
14:53:58 Let's see what the petitioner do before we make a
14:54:01 decision, if opposition wants to speak.
14:54:07 >>> My name is Melissa Demming, the property owner at

14:54:12 5109 North Nebraska.
14:54:15 To get to your question, yes, I do want to proceed
14:54:17 with the 32 seats.
14:54:19 However, I would like to take at least a little bit of
14:54:22 time today to explain the situation since we have so
14:54:25 many people come out from the neighborhood.
14:54:27 So I appreciate you getting -- allowing me to get up
14:54:30 here to speak.
14:54:32 For the past two years I have worked earnestly, been
14:54:36 working earnestly with land development and
14:54:38 construction services to come up with a good design
14:54:40 for my restaurant on this property.
14:54:41 My goal is to construct a building that will fit
14:54:44 aesthetically into the historic neighborhood and still
14:54:46 adhere to constraints by city code.
14:54:49 This proved to be a very daunting task.
14:54:52 My two big concerns which were incorporated grand tree
14:54:54 setback into our layout and provide adequate parking
14:54:58 for the code.
14:55:02 As staff outlined we ran into a few minor design
14:55:04 issues regarding the item midway through the wet
14:55:07 zoning process that need to be addressed before we can

14:55:09 proceed today.
14:55:13 Up until two days ago I didn't realize these items
14:55:15 would be a problem for this hearing.
14:55:18 However, I have worked hard to clear them up prior to
14:55:21 appearing before you today.
14:55:22 I can give you a little more background on the exact
14:55:25 decking system that will need to be constructed.
14:55:27 But basically in order to save the tree and have
14:55:31 minimal impact to the grading system around there, so
14:55:34 it can continue to grow and we can still use the area
14:55:37 around there for seating.
14:55:40 In fact, just this morning I met with parks and rec,
14:55:43 transportation and zoning to show them a revised plan.
14:55:48 It was decided that by all the departments that there
14:55:51 should be no problem moving forward with the revised
14:55:53 plan.
14:55:54 But in the meantime, as you can see, there are several
14:55:56 members here in the neighborhood that showed up to
14:55:58 hear the petition, and I would ask that at the very
14:56:03 least it be noted on public record that all in favor
14:56:06 of petitioner at least be able to stand or raise their
14:56:09 hand and be recognized by council at that time.

14:56:14 Is there any way that I could get it?
14:56:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in opposition to this
14:56:18 petition?
14:56:19 Are you against continuing this for a month?
14:56:23 Come up.
14:56:28 They can respect on the continuance.
14:56:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But she's changing the petition.
14:56:41 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:56:42 This continuance is actually required by code.
14:56:46 If the changes that she is requesting are considered
14:56:48 substantial by code, which they are, it's a "shall
14:56:51 continue" a minimum of four weeks.
14:56:53 It's a little different scenario when somebody is just
14:56:55 coming and saying may I continue?
14:56:59 Than the only other option is for her to go back and
14:57:02 say I want the 16 and then you can proceed the 16
14:57:04 feet.
14:57:05 Then you can actually proceed today.
14:57:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Couldn't people that would like to
14:57:17 speak today speak on this?
14:57:23 Is Michael Masamini present today?
14:57:28 Is it your intention to speak today, sir?

14:57:36 Council, letters from the greater Seminole Heights
14:57:38 land use committee, a letter that offers support with
14:57:43 conditions.
14:57:44 I don't know whether Mrs. Demming has seen this.
14:57:46 Here's a copy for her.
14:57:47 I'll pass this around to council.
14:57:50 These involve -- these involve the hours of operation
14:57:55 which are not necessarily relevant to the change of
14:57:59 the site plan.
14:58:01 >>CATHERINE COYLE: If I may, land development again.
14:58:04 The issue is considered substantial is an increase in
14:58:06 outdoor seating, 16 to 32, and than the change to the
14:58:10 parking layout which is either an addition of two to
14:58:14 three spaces.
14:58:14 The appellate before you ultimately is for alcohol,
14:58:17 4(COP-R), and so that really is what you are weighing
14:58:20 today.
14:58:20 The other issues are the technical of how they are
14:58:22 laid out.
14:58:23 That's only to help the legal department in their
14:58:25 answer.
14:58:25 >>GWEN MILLER: The only thing they can speak on today

14:58:28 is the alcohol part.
14:58:29 >>> Right.
14:58:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Just to clarify, what I would like
14:58:33 to do is allow the public that's here to speak on this
14:58:37 and then allow staff to come back in 30 days.
14:58:39 >>REBECCA KERT: Cathy indicate by code it's a four
14:58:47 week continuance.
14:58:48 Talk comments today but what you need to understand is
14:58:50 if you take public comment today when they come back
14:58:52 in four weeks you need to take public comment again.
14:58:56 >> I would like to take public comment today to
14:58:58 accommodate all the people that have shown up today.
14:59:01 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: They can't come back again.
14:59:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't know that that requires a
14:59:04 motion.
14:59:04 >>REBECCA KERT: Actually they will be able to come
14:59:07 back and speak again because they'll have a different
14:59:09 site plan.
14:59:09 >>GWEN MILLER: On the same thing still, liquor?
14:59:13 >>> It's all one package.
14:59:16 >>GWEN MILLER: They can come back in a month and speak
14:59:18 on the same thing on liquor again?

14:59:19 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes, because the site plan has
14:59:22 changed.
14:59:22 >> Significantly.
14:59:24 >>> Significantly enough that they have to continue.
14:59:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Essentially I already made the motion,
14:59:30 I thought, but I'll second the motion.
14:59:33 We need to hear from the public.
14:59:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there anyone that wants to speak on
14:59:36 the alcohol part?
14:59:39 That's all they can speak on.
14:59:47 >>> Mike Masamini with Seminole Heights committee.
14:59:53 We are a committee that is composed of the three
14:59:57 associations of Seminole Heights.
14:59:58 Basically our proposal is that alcohol will be served
15:00:01 from midnight on Sunday through Wednesday and alcohol
15:00:04 could be served till 1 a.m. on Thursday through
15:00:07 Saturday.
15:00:08 And there will be seven additional days throughout the
15:00:11 year they will be allowed to serve alcohol to whatever
15:00:15 the city's time line is depending on the holiday,
15:00:17 et cetera.
15:00:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And your --

15:00:31 >>> East shadow lawn.
15:00:33 I come representing both myself and the southeast
15:00:36 Seminole Heights civic association.
15:00:38 The civic association took the recommendation to the
15:00:42 land use committee and reviewed them and voted to
15:00:44 support them.
15:00:45 So we have not only signed the letter but I'm here to
15:00:50 tell you in person that we back this petition for wet
15:00:53 zoning.
15:00:55 Further, I think it important to note that they have
15:01:03 struggled for the last two years to obtain approval to
15:01:06 open a business, has made herself part of the
15:01:10 neighborhood, that she has had a lot, so has moved in
15:01:16 for two years, she has kept it mowed and cleaned,
15:01:19 which by the way is something the city can't do.
15:01:22 [ Laughter ]
15:01:23 We are very proud to have her.
15:01:24 I think she is a great quality individual.
15:01:27 I think she's worked very hard to not ask for things
15:01:31 she shouldn't have.
15:01:32 She asks for what's right.
15:01:33 And to do it the right way.

15:01:35 So we support her.
15:01:39 Myself personally, I had the good fortune to be one of
15:01:43 those people that will not have to take an automobile
15:01:46 to eat there. I already have my reservation for
15:01:48 opening night whenever that can be.
15:01:50 I am three house as way from this restaurant.
15:01:52 When I moved where I moved, it's an urban area, and I
15:01:56 knew that I lived three blocks off of a main road, and
15:01:59 I knew that unless time stood still things were going
15:02:03 to change there, and this traffic would increase,
15:02:06 et cetera.
15:02:06 They will.
15:02:07 And some nights I'm probably going to want to kill
15:02:11 somebody when I come home if there's somebody parked
15:02:12 in front of my house.
15:02:14 But that's where I live.
15:02:15 And that's way chose.
15:02:16 And I know that I have spoken to all the neighbors,
15:02:20 just about, on two streets, tons of others.
15:02:24 I do not know one dissenting person.
15:02:27 So I hope the heck you help her out.
15:02:29 That's all.

15:02:30 Thank you.
15:02:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
15:02:31 Next speaker.
15:02:40 >>> Randy Baron, 217 West Comanche Avenue.
15:02:45 I have been sworn.
15:02:45 I am also a member of the land use committee and this
15:02:48 was discussed at our last meeting.
15:02:50 At that point there were no objections.
15:02:51 We are looking forward to having this business come
15:02:53 into the neighborhood.
15:02:54 It will be neighborhood serving.
15:02:56 It serves great food.
15:02:57 They serve food at the southeast Seminole Heights home
15:03:01 tour.
15:03:01 And I had the opportunity to taste some of their food
15:03:04 and was fabulous.
15:03:07 She's been very sensitive to the tree.
15:03:11 She's worked with the neighborhood.
15:03:12 This is an example of the developer coming in, a
15:03:14 business owner coming in and doing everything by the
15:03:18 book.
15:03:18 And struggling to make sure that they meet all the

15:03:22 requirements of code, and working with code to try to
15:03:24 come up with novel ways to be sensitive to that grand
15:03:28 tree.
15:03:29 We shouldn't be afraid of grand trees.
15:03:31 I mean, grand trees, yes, they need a buffer, they
15:03:35 need to be able to grow, but they are also an asset to
15:03:37 a location.
15:03:38 If you look at those photos, that tree is beautiful.
15:03:41 It frames the building.
15:03:42 It's also going to provide wonderful shade for people
15:03:44 who want to eat in the outdoors.
15:03:46 We are looking forward to having this business.
15:03:49 With respect to the wet zoning, again those hours were
15:03:51 discussed.
15:03:52 Seminole Heights is struggling to come up with a
15:03:56 unified policy that we start off with as a general
15:04:00 rule, with respect to businesses, and different kinds
15:04:03 of wet zonings.
15:04:04 And part of that is, the hours that were written in
15:04:08 the letter, and the opportunity to have certain
15:04:10 holiday, and also have the music, impact the
15:04:15 neighborhood.

15:04:17 The committee, all three neighborhood associations are
15:04:20 in favor of this.
15:04:21 And I would hope that council when this finally comes
15:04:24 before you for the final plan looks favorably upon
15:04:27 this application.
15:04:28 Thank you.
15:04:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
15:04:31 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to make one comment to
15:04:33 Mr. Baron.
15:04:33 I think we come up with the policy that you can come
15:04:36 up with some recommendations.
15:04:40 Your neighborhood association.
15:04:48 >>> Elizabeth Graham.
15:04:51 I have been in Seminole Heights for nearly 19 years I
15:05:04 have some concern with the hours of operation.
15:05:05 We were in front of City Council just a few months
15:05:07 ago, and we were not allowed certain things that they
15:05:14 are asking for so I am not sure where the consistency
15:05:16 and fairness comes in.
15:05:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What did we end up granting you?
15:05:20 >>> You granted us no live music, no outdoor
15:05:25 off-premise usage.

15:05:28 Sunday through Thursday was midnight, music
15:05:33 stopping -- music being the radio.
15:05:39 I can't remember the name that you use.
15:05:42 Amplified.
15:05:43 Thank you.
15:05:45 Had to end at ten.
15:05:48 And Friday and Saturday only, 1 a.m. with amplified
15:05:52 music stopping at 11, in addition to designated
15:06:01 holidays which we were all out to extend our hours
15:06:03 until 1:00 with the music still headed in the early --
15:06:11 in front of Ella's is Tampa crossroads.
15:06:14 It been there for 20 years.
15:06:16 My friend Sara Romeo is a director there.
15:06:20 So you have a drug and alcohol rehabilitation center
15:06:23 directly in front of this building, and directly
15:06:26 beside the building by the tree is an apartment
15:06:29 complex and that is owned and occupied by children and
15:06:36 families.
15:06:38 So I just wanted to make you aware of that.
15:06:41 The second floor, I don't know what the footprints
15:06:44 that they are asking for as far as being wet zoned.
15:06:47 I was under the impression the entire second and

15:06:50 bottom, the two floors.
15:06:53 The second floor is zoned for office space, so I'm a
15:07:03 little unaware why that office space needs to be wet
15:07:05 zoned.
15:07:07 I heard through the grapevine that any -- directly,
15:07:13 that it was going to be used for banquets, so I'm
15:07:15 confused with whether or not that will only increase,
15:07:21 increase, the parking on that property.
15:07:25 I think what's happening here is Seminole Heights is
15:07:28 so excited that new businesses are coming in.
15:07:31 I'm going to be honest with you.
15:07:32 Some are.
15:07:35 However, I think that people are at the point where
15:07:38 it's easier to ask for forgiveness than to come out
15:07:43 straight and say, I want the second floor for this.
15:07:50 All -- I mean, I just wanted to make -- I just have
15:07:53 some concern how they calculated parking.
15:07:58 What's different than the application that we had
15:08:01 other than this drug rehabilitation and the families
15:08:07 beside them and behind them.
15:08:13 I'm just going over some notes real quick.
15:08:20 >> Does this block face yours?

15:08:23 >>> No, it not.
15:08:24 It's on the same block but not far at all.
15:08:26 >> I just meant in terms of parking.
15:08:30 Are you concerned that the overflow parking is going
15:08:34 to end up at your place?
15:08:35 I'm just trying to get a handle on that.
15:08:37 >>> I'm not talking about my parking space, Mr.
15:08:44 Dingfelder, I'm just trying to understand if we are
15:08:46 going to take guidelines, where is the consistency?
15:08:49 I mean, if there's a second floor going to be office,
15:08:52 or is it going to be banquet?
15:08:54 How large is the second floor?
15:08:55 I have not seen the plans.
15:08:57 Okay.
15:08:58 How large is it going to be?
15:09:00 Is it what it's truly going to be?
15:09:02 Are we going to have increased seating upstairs and
15:09:05 outside?
15:09:06 What's the real deal?
15:09:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
15:09:10 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question for staff.
15:09:13 What is the zoning on this building?

15:09:17 >>> I heard they wanted beer and wine and now they are
15:09:20 applying for 4(COP).
15:09:22 She said she only wants to purchase the beer and wine.
15:09:25 Have kind of wondering what's going on there, too.
15:09:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have one so you can look at in
15:09:34 the better detail.
15:09:36 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Commercial general CG.
15:09:39 Just to reiterate they are asking for a 4(COP-R),
15:09:42 restaurant classification, so there's no off-site
15:09:46 consumption.
15:09:47 >>MARY MULHERN: So is there a problem with commercial
15:09:49 general having a second floor restaurant?
15:09:53 >>> No.
15:09:54 45 feet is the allowable height in CG.
15:09:57 And transportation reviewed the parking calculations
15:09:59 on the site plan, which break it down by the occupant
15:10:03 load, the dining room, kitchen, office space, storage,
15:10:06 utility, add it comes out to 13.75 spaces rounded to
15:10:10 147 which is what they provided for the accuracy.
15:10:12 >> So they don't need a zoning change to ask for
15:10:15 those?
15:10:16 >>> No.

15:10:17 As I showed you in the pictures, they are actually
15:10:19 already most of the way through construction.
15:10:28 >> Next speaker?
15:10:35 >>> My name is Michael Graham, the owner of the
15:10:38 Bungalow Bistro.
15:10:39 And we were before you all a few months back, and I'll
15:10:45 make this short and sweet.
15:10:46 I would just like some consistency.
15:10:53 Dollars is my main concern.
15:10:54 And maybe the live music outside.
15:10:56 I don't know why, you know, some can get it and some
15:11:00 can't.
15:11:02 So I just, you know, would hope that, you know,
15:11:05 everybody out there will be consistent in their
15:11:07 decisions and think back of what was, you know, done
15:11:09 months back, or even years back.
15:11:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And you bring up a good point and
15:11:17 I'm glad that you are raising these points.
15:11:19 As a matter of fact, the gentleman in the second row
15:11:21 is your back-door neighbor, as I recall.
15:11:23 >>> Uh-huh.
15:11:24 >> And he was one that had concern about the live

15:11:26 music because he said that the angle from his place to
15:11:29 your place, to your deck, was such that he was very
15:11:32 concerned with live music would go toward his house.
15:11:41 This open area appears to be in the front bottom on
15:11:46 the Nebraska side.
15:11:49 Number one.
15:11:49 So there might be a difference.
15:11:51 You know, I'm not saying it's completely apples and
15:11:53 oranges.
15:11:54 >>> That's fine.
15:11:55 >> We don't treat you exactly the same.
15:11:58 There might be some reasons for it.
15:11:59 But each site plan has little differences.
15:12:02 The other part is, I don't know what's behind, and
15:12:09 maybe somebody can answer.
15:12:10 What's behind this property?
15:12:16 Is there single family directly behind this one?
15:12:20 >>> I'm not sure.
15:12:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We'll find --
15:12:24 >> We'll find somebody that can answer.
15:12:25 >>> It just lacks consistency.
15:12:27 I don't want my business affected because somebody can

15:12:30 open later and I wasn't able to.
15:12:32 That doesn't seem fair to me.
15:12:35 Thank you.
15:12:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
15:12:43 >>> My name is Ingrid Smith, 5605 north Suwannee
15:12:49 Avenue.
15:12:49 I have not been sworn.
15:12:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone else that has come in
15:12:52 and needs to be sworn, please stand and raise your
15:12:54 right hand.
15:12:57 (Oath administered by Clerk)
15:12:58 >>> I'm an owner, resident in Seminole Heights, and
15:13:06 one of the great things, we are not a cookie cutter
15:13:09 neighborhood, so there are going to be some
15:13:11 differences.
15:13:15 The greater Seminole land use to come up with
15:13:18 guidelines are not set in stone, they will be flexible
15:13:22 according to that neighborhood, the civic
15:13:24 organization.
15:13:25 My main concern has always been wet zoning.
15:13:32 I am not a part of land use but the first thing they
15:13:37 asked what, what hours would the neighborhood support?

15:13:40 They didn't try to steamroll with asking for a lot of
15:13:46 exterior wet zoning that didn't make sense.
15:13:49 Their elevation is different, they are relatively
15:13:54 flat, so their second story and their outdoor music
15:13:56 faces away from the neighborhood.
15:13:59 So there's quite a bit of difference with that.
15:14:03 And the speaker before you all.
15:14:06 But there is a one-day difference in that they are
15:14:11 looking at weekday being Sunday to Wednesday with
15:14:13 Thursday being included as part of the weekend, which
15:14:16 I support.
15:14:19 And the outdoor music, I think, they will agree to
15:14:26 cease one hour prior to closing.
15:14:27 So basically we are looking at a one-day difference
15:14:30 and one-hour difference thereabouts with the music.
15:14:33 But I do support them.
15:14:34 And when they see somebody in the neighborhood they'll
15:14:41 ask them, what do you think?
15:14:43 How are you feeling?
15:14:44 They have been very up front about working with us on
15:14:46 that.
15:14:48 And, yeah, there's going to be a little bit of wiggle

15:14:51 room between what one restaurant has and one another
15:14:54 one has, because we are not cookie cutter.
15:15:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
15:15:04 Next speaker.
15:15:09 >> Ben Mills, 6502 North Ninth Street, roughly two
15:15:13 blocks from the proposed restaurant.
15:15:14 I actually came in a little earlier to voice my
15:15:17 support to Ms. Graham's restaurant, although after
15:15:21 seeing what appears to be merely a spiteful
15:15:24 presentation on her behalf, I feel a little
15:15:27 embarrassed that I did.
15:15:28 I look forward to seeing a restaurant like this close
15:15:30 to my house.
15:15:32 I intend to walk to it.
15:15:34 And I think there's no reason why we shouldn't allow
15:15:37 it to go forward.
15:15:38 It would be really great.
15:15:40 To the neighborhood, which the entire street is a
15:15:43 little rough, a little rocky looking, and any sort of
15:15:46 development after eating spaces you can go to, car
15:15:50 lots or vacant lot, it's a fantastic idea.
15:15:54 Thank you.

15:15:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
15:16:01 >>> Chris Hovan.
15:16:02 I live at 517 west Idlewild, walking distance.
15:16:07 I normally eat at another restaurant around the corner
15:16:09 that I walk to on a regular basis.
15:16:11 My issue is regarding the issue with the outdoor
15:16:17 music.
15:16:21 There is a restaurant formerly known as Ybor Frita,
15:16:25 now a Honduran restaurant.
15:16:26 There's also The Front Porch in walking distance that
15:16:29 has outdoor live music during the week and on
15:16:31 weekends.
15:16:33 So if you are going for consistency you should not
15:16:35 just see two restaurants that are against it because
15:16:37 they don't Vermont.
15:16:38 You should also take into consideration there are two
15:16:40 restaurants in the neighborhood that do have it.
15:16:42 So everything should be fair and clear.
15:16:44 Across the board.
15:16:46 That's all.
15:16:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
15:16:48 Petitioner?

15:16:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Or anyone else.
15:16:55 >>> I would like to get up and address a couple
15:16:58 issues.
15:16:59 First of all we are not proposing any sort of outdoor
15:17:01 music at all.
15:17:02 Any music that we have on the weekends we are
15:17:04 proposing to have indoor.
15:17:06 And I have done everything possible in the design to
15:17:08 try and keep that music from enter into Nebraska and
15:17:12 not toward the back of the property.
15:17:17 Very minimal windows on the very back of the building
15:17:20 and to have soundproof the entire wall, so it could
15:17:24 create a minimal impact.
15:17:25 So I just want to clear that up.
15:17:27 And I am not going to be trying to have full live
15:17:31 bands out on the patio till one in the morning or
15:17:33 weekends.
15:17:34 That's not even an issue.
15:17:36 If there are any other questions.
15:17:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Have you seen the letter from the
15:17:40 land use committee?
15:17:42 >>> Yes, I have.

15:17:43 >> The January 22nd letter.
15:17:44 And they identify four conditions.
15:17:46 >>> Uh-huh.
15:17:47 >> Not to alcohol not to be served past 1 a.m.
15:17:54 Thursday through Saturday.
15:17:55 I'm not sure how we deal with the seven additional
15:17:57 days.
15:17:58 >>> I wasn't either.
15:17:59 I was told that the committee -- I need to come up
15:18:02 with a list of days that I need to be open.
15:18:05 >> I think it has to be more specific.
15:18:06 >>> I don't know when you would like me to submit
15:18:09 those.
15:18:09 Maybe before second reading.
15:18:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, it will come back.
15:18:13 >>> I'll have that ready.
15:18:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The fourth one says outdoor music
15:18:18 terminating --
15:18:20 >> They are not going to have outdoor music.
15:18:22 >>> Well, I will have outdoor speakers and I don't
15:18:25 have a problem about terminating that music.
15:18:29 I just want to be clear that I wasn't going to have

15:18:31 full bands trying to play, you know, to the wee hours
15:18:37 of the morning.
15:18:37 >> So basically you stipulate to all these conditions
15:18:41 in the letter of the land use economist committee
15:18:43 dated January 22nd?
15:18:48 >>> Absolutely.
15:18:48 >> Move to continue to four weeks from now when we
15:18:51 come back.
15:18:51 >>GWEN MILLER: What day is that?
15:18:54 >>THE CLERK: February 19th.
15:18:56 At 1:30.
15:19:02 (Motion carried).
15:19:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 87.
15:19:08 >> Move to open.
15:19:08 >> Second.
15:19:09 (Motion carried).
15:19:10 >>ERIC COTTON: Land Development Coordination.
15:19:25 This is V 09-40.
15:19:27 This is the 1609 Swann Avenue.
15:19:34 Old Hyde Park Village.
15:19:35 Petitioner is requesting to do a 4(COP-X) which is
15:19:38 beer and wine, for alcohol sales for consumption on

15:19:42 premises only.
15:19:45 Development review committee found the request to be
15:19:47 consistent.
15:19:49 Waivers for the distance waivers, other places selling
15:19:57 alcohol, residential uses, institutional uses.
15:20:00 This property is zoned PD as part of the planned
15:20:02 development that was adopted by council on petition
15:20:04 VO-6-71. The special use will contain
15:20:09 approximately 28,000 square feet, and staff found this
15:20:15 to be consistent with the request.
15:20:16 This is the familiar site to most people in Tampa.
15:20:25 This is the existing building as it stands right now.
15:20:28 The standards for review are listed in the staff
15:20:31 report.
15:20:31 If you all any questions I'm available.
15:20:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a question for legal.
15:20:36 Rebecca, the Historic Hyde Park neighborhood
15:20:44 association sent a letter and they don't have any
15:20:46 objection, however they request that the 4(COP-X)
15:20:50 special use be limited as noticed and if it should
15:20:55 close the 4(COP-X) will terminate.
15:20:58 Any comments?

15:20:59 >>> That's consistent with conditions that you place
15:21:03 on things in the past, but you only find that the
15:21:08 alcoholic beverage sales are compatible if tied to a
15:21:11 specific use.
15:21:11 >> And we would include that in the ordinance?
15:21:16 >>> It would need to be directed to be placed on the
15:21:19 site plan.
15:21:19 We are trying to get all the conditions in one
15:21:22 location.
15:21:22 >> So we can tie it to the theater use.
15:21:25 >>> Yes.
15:21:26 Not a specific theater but a theater use.
15:21:31 >>MARY MULHERN: I think you just asked my question and
15:21:34 got an APS.
15:21:34 So the alcohol, are we -- 4(COP-X) is package sales,
15:21:42 right?
15:21:44 Are you saying that they can just like buy a bottle of
15:21:47 beer, bottle of wine?
15:21:48 >> No, 4(COP-X) is couples on premises only.
15:21:51 >> I'm sorry no, package sales.
15:21:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But no food requirement.
15:21:56 >>ERIC COTTON: Correct.

15:21:59 >> Is there going to be popcorn?
15:22:02 [ Laughter ]
15:22:03 There better be popcorn.
15:22:08 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
15:22:20 department.
15:22:21 I have been sworn.
15:22:23 Police department has no objection to this wet zone.
15:22:26 I was a bit curious myself, and went out and visited
15:22:30 the site.
15:22:31 They do a very nice job.
15:22:33 Everything is done with children and underage drinkers
15:22:40 involved staying at a lower level who are away from
15:22:42 the alcohol so I was very impressed.
15:22:44 >> The same concept?
15:22:45 >>> Yes, the same concept.
15:22:47 So we have no objections.
15:22:48 Thank you.
15:22:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is that the one on the interstate?
15:22:54 >>> There will be popcorn.
15:22:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.
15:23:01 >> My name is Louis J. Termwello, of the law firm of
15:23:05 Termwello and Termwello, P.A., of Miami, Florida,

15:23:09 representing Cobb theaters.
15:23:10 Also with me in the event you have questions to ask is
15:23:12 the CEO of Cobb theaters, Mr. Jerry Wellman.
15:23:15 With me here is Mr. Carothers who represents the
15:23:20 landlord in the event you have any questions regarding
15:23:21 issues on the site plan and the landlord.
15:23:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in opposition to this
15:23:27 petition?
15:23:35 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Are you going to serve
15:23:36 appetizers?
15:23:37 >>> We are going to serve full course meals.
15:23:42 And I'm glad officer Miller had an opportunity to see
15:23:47 our venue in Pasco County.
15:23:48 We serve full course meals.
15:23:50 We don't want -- have the venue quite prepared yet but
15:23:55 as you are aware Cobb theaters represents the bistro
15:23:59 concept in two other venues in the State of Florida as
15:24:02 we stand here today, and another one contemplated in
15:24:05 Volusia. We just opened up in Pasco County in Wesley
15:24:08 chapel about four months ago.
15:24:10 And we are very happy and very proud of that venue
15:24:12 which -- venue which worked out very well for us.

15:24:16 We have been in operation for quite some time at the
15:24:18 Miami-Dade county at the dolphin mall, and we have had
15:24:22 no issues with alcohol, with any of the local
15:24:24 authorities or the state Division of Alcoholic
15:24:26 Beverages and tobacco.
15:24:31 I have a prepared presentation but in the event there
15:24:33 are no objectors, I'm here.
15:24:35 If you have any questions of myself, the operator or
15:24:38 the landlord, I'm here.
15:24:42 >>MARY MULHERN: I was looking at the site plan but you
15:24:46 can probably explain.
15:24:47 How many theaters are if there going to be?
15:24:50 >>> There are six theaters.
15:24:51 This is particularly small.
15:24:53 As far as Cobb is concerned, particularly small venue.
15:24:55 There are only six theaters on this venue.
15:24:58 One of the interesting things, the old sunrise theater
15:25:00 her well in excess of 1500 seats.
15:25:02 We only have 456 and only 16 of which will be outside
15:25:07 in the area.
15:25:08 Those are not really for sit-down dining purposes.
15:25:10 But today people like to walk outside when they are

15:25:13 going to have a cigarette and place for them to sit
15:25:15 around.
15:25:17 >>MARY MULHERN: My other question is, can we see
15:25:21 movies here that are not -- every single multiplex
15:25:26 shows all the same movies, and really other than the
15:25:29 Tampa Theatre there's nowhere you can go to see a
15:25:31 foreign film or art film, or any independent film.
15:25:36 And I really think you need to have something
15:25:39 different to offer, because otherwise that's what
15:25:46 everyone was used to at Hyde Park village and everyone
15:25:49 when sunrise took it over there, was usually one movie
15:25:52 that was not available at all --
15:25:55 >>> I was prepared for almost any question except that
15:25:57 one.
15:25:58 [ Laughter ]
15:26:00 Mr. Wellman indicates to me that they do have some
15:26:03 type of variety.
15:26:04 And I don't know that I can add to your question with
15:26:09 specificity, but I can a sure you that Cobb is a good
15:26:12 neighbor and will do whatever the neighborhood needs.
15:26:14 >>MARY MULHERN: How many theaters does Cobb have?
15:26:22 >>> I'm glad you asked me that question.

15:26:24 At one time, Cobb was the largest operator, movie
15:26:27 theaters in the southeast United States.
15:26:29 The end of 1990s, they sold out to regal theaters,
15:26:33 and then resurrected again in the year 2000.
15:26:36 Today, if my statistics are current and up to date, we
15:26:40 have 11 or 12 locations in excess of 166 screens in
15:26:45 the southeast United States.
15:26:46 We are headquartered in Birmingham, Alabama.
15:26:51 In the State of Florida we have this venue, proposed
15:26:54 venue, the one at Pasco, the one in Dade County, and
15:26:57 we are really close to one in Volusia county in
15:27:00 Daytona.
15:27:02 Rather than have the bistro -- and you are going to
15:27:05 enjoy it.
15:27:05 The seating is airline chair seating.
15:27:08 We have very -- we are very cognizant of the sale of
15:27:12 alcoholic beverages and all the venues, Cobb is a
15:27:15 qualified, responsible vendor under the Florida
15:27:17 statute, responsible vendor's act.
15:27:20 We have three different levels of checking IDs.
15:27:23 I everyone have a DVD fly-through but you don't need
15:27:27 to see it.

15:27:28 But trust me when I tell you there are three different
15:27:30 levels of security the concierge, the greeter, the
15:27:36 actual server.
15:27:37 We go out of our way to ensure that we are good
15:27:40 neighbors and that we don't sell alcoholic beverages
15:27:42 to minors.
15:27:43 >>MARY MULHERN: We are just voting on the wealth wet
15:27:45 zoning but I really think you should think about not
15:27:48 being just the same as multiplexes because I think it
15:27:51 would just make good business sense.
15:27:52 >>> Well, one item I want to bring up, I was a little
15:27:55 bit -- you see, we had submitted on January 12th, and
15:27:59 I still don't know if you have that package in your
15:28:01 packets or not, but the one application where we
15:28:06 voluntarily agreed that we would meet the 2 a.m.
15:28:10 closing, and that I tried to explain, because one of
15:28:12 the issues that I have heard was an issue was this
15:28:16 ability to transfer this zoning, and I believe there
15:28:19 was the issue that this gentleman brought up just
15:28:23 today.
15:28:24 We have entered into a lease agreement last week,
15:28:28 addendum to the lease agreement with our landlord,

15:28:30 that -- and it's very clear from the material that you
15:28:33 should have there, that will prohibit the concern that
15:28:37 he indicated.
15:28:38 And the one last item I wanted to point out is that
15:28:43 your formula for the X and the R that prohibits us
15:28:45 from applying for the restaurant.
15:28:47 Our gross sales of alcoholic beverages is less than
15:28:50 20%, but we don't qualify for your restaurant license
15:28:53 because you don't include the box office revenues in
15:28:57 your percentage.
15:28:58 So we don't have -- it's less than 20% alcohol sales.
15:29:04 This can't become a large venue nightclub pursuant to
15:29:08 the lease that we have.
15:29:10 And I think you are going to find this to be a
15:29:12 wonderful addition to the Hyde Park area.
15:29:16 Thank you.
15:29:17 >> I just wanted to reiterate Mrs. Mulhern's comments
15:29:22 about showing independent films, showing foreign
15:29:25 films.
15:29:25 It is one of the things that made the previous theater
15:29:29 packed all the time.
15:29:30 And it was a huge problem for the community when they

15:29:34 closed.
15:29:35 We all missed it profoundly.
15:29:37 And so we are all waiting.
15:29:39 If you can open before summer, we would be happy.
15:29:41 I mean, people are chomping at the bits.
15:29:44 >> We would like to be open tomorrow.
15:29:46 I mean, we are going to strive to do that.
15:29:48 And Mr. Wellman has heard every one of your comments
15:29:51 and will take them home.
15:29:52 >>MARY MULHERN: And we have to drive to Oldsmar to see
15:29:56 something other than --
15:30:01 >> Okay.
15:30:01 >> This is very important.
15:30:06 >> I know.
15:30:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Need a motion to close.
15:30:10 >> So moved.
15:30:11 >> Second.
15:30:11 (Motion carried).
15:30:12 >> I'll read this at the end.
15:30:17 >>ERIC COTTON: For the site plan, if you could direct
15:30:20 petitioner to do so, which is that if the movie
15:30:24 theater --

15:30:27 >> Yes.
15:30:27 >>> Special use would expire kind of thing.
15:30:30 And number two on the site plan.
15:30:34 And it's the proposed project will comply with
15:30:38 stormwater.
15:30:39 We don't need to have on there, and provide half inch
15:30:44 retention for water quality.
15:30:45 That can be struck.
15:30:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move an ordinance
15:30:49 approving --
15:30:51 >>REBECCA KERT: There is a comment from the applicant
15:30:53 and I wanted to clarify.
15:30:56 What you have done in the past is you have tied the
15:30:59 alcoholic permit to a particular use.
15:31:02 The alcohol permit does not expire if that use goes
15:31:04 away.
15:31:06 It's that it's illegal to sell alcohol unless it's in
15:31:09 conjunction with a movie theater use.
15:31:10 And that's my only comment.
15:31:12 I don't know if -- the petitioner indicated they were
15:31:17 okay with that.
15:31:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move an ordinance approving a

15:31:20 special use permit for alcoholic venue sales large
15:31:23 venue regardless of alcoholic content beer, wine and
15:31:25 liquor 4(COP-X) for consumption on premises only at or
15:31:29 from that certain lot, plot or tract of land located
15:31:32 at 1609 West Swann Avenue, Tampa, Florida, more
15:31:35 particularly described in section 2 hereof, approving
15:31:37 waivers as set forth herein, waiving certain
15:31:40 restrictions, providing for repeal of all ordinances
15:31:44 in conflict, providing an effective date.
15:31:45 And attaching certain conditions to the site plan so
15:31:48 that if the theater use is not in effect, that the
15:31:53 privilege to sell alcohol is not in effect, and taking
15:31:58 the comments of city staff.
15:32:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
15:32:01 (Motion carried).
15:32:04 >>THE CLERK: Second reading and adoption will be on
15:32:06 February 5th, 2009, at 9:30.
15:32:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 89.
15:32:18 >> Move to open.
15:32:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
15:32:20 (Motion carried).
15:32:21 >>ERIC COTTON: Land Development Coordination, for V

15:32:24 09-42 for property at 5016 North Florida Avenue.
15:32:30 The petitioner is requesting a 2(COP) which is for
15:32:33 beer and wine consumption on premises in pack an
15:32:38 sales.
15:32:38 They are requesting some specific parking waivers,
15:32:42 reduce the parking from 15 spaces down to 11, to allow
15:32:44 off street parking maneuverability within Florida
15:32:48 Avenue to allow access onto a local street which will
15:32:50 be wilder, to allow for maneuvering of solid waste
15:32:54 service vehicle within the right-of-way during the
15:32:55 collection process, typical waivers from the
15:33:02 separation from other venues selling alcohol,
15:33:05 residential uses and institutional uses.
15:33:08 The development review committee, this is for -- the
15:33:14 DRC found the request to be inconsistent.
15:33:18 On the staff report you will see the request, the
15:33:19 statement that what Cathy said earlier today regarding
15:33:24 buffering, administrative review and request.
15:33:26 That's going to be handled in house.
15:33:28 By the time second reading, hopefully everything will
15:33:30 be resolved on that.
15:33:31 Transportation did find the request to be inconsistent

15:33:34 regarding the street, parking reduction and
15:33:40 maneuverability into the public right-of-way.
15:33:43 Council can grant waivers through the public process.
15:33:46 If you all have any questions.
15:33:48 Does council have any questions for me?
15:33:50 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
15:34:06 department.
15:34:07 Police department has no objections to this wet
15:34:08 zoning.
15:34:11 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I'm here on behalf of the
15:34:13 petitioners who respectfully requesting a 2(COP-X).
15:34:19 The petition before you references a 2(COP), and in
15:34:23 discussion was the neighborhood association, we have
15:34:27 come to an understanding where we would be requesting
15:34:29 the X.
15:34:30 We are in support and agree to the conditions that are
15:34:33 being outlined in the neighborhood letter of support
15:34:35 from January 22nd, and that would be that the
15:34:39 operating hours be Sunday through Wednesday at
15:34:42 midnight, Thursday through Saturday to 1 a.m. and we
15:34:49 have the seven holidays that we identified for being
15:34:51 allowed to stay open until 2 a.m., as New Year's Eve,

15:34:55 Memorial Day eve, Labor Day eve, St. Patrick's day,
15:34:59 Thanksgiving eve, July 3rd and 4th, the first
15:35:03 Saturday in October for Oktoberfest, and basically
15:35:06 that's the events.
15:35:10 I can repeat it again.
15:35:12 I can go backwards if you like.
15:35:13 >> How about Super Bowl night?
15:35:15 >> They had talked about Super Bowl, but they advised
15:35:17 me that they are not open on Super Bowl, that they are
15:35:20 going to be home enjoying themselves privately.
15:35:23 Just so you will see, this is the facility.
15:35:27 It used to be a gas station, and repair facility.
15:35:31 It's currently a design studio.
15:35:33 And the owner, petitioners are in the process of
15:35:40 converting that to a German style deli public kind of
15:35:44 atmosphere.
15:35:46 Which the neighborhood association is very excited
15:35:48 about.
15:35:48 And I think that anyone that has been up in that part
15:35:51 of Florida Avenue can tell, Cappy's was the first
15:35:57 restaurant to come in and start to stable Ayes the
15:35:59 commercial interests that go beyond 5 p.m., and this

15:36:02 will be one of the second or third ones to go in the
15:36:04 neighborhood.
15:36:04 And, again, it will be a great addition, Cappy's and
15:36:11 Veronica, the petitioners shall working closely
15:36:13 together on coordinating hours of operation and food
15:36:16 exchanges and that sort of thing.
15:36:17 So there's a synergy that's beginning to develop there
15:36:21 that's quite good for the neighborhood.
15:36:23 And we are respectfully requesting your approval.
15:36:25 Certainly I'm available for any questions you might
15:36:27 have regarding this petition.
15:36:30 But it's a great asset to the community and strongly
15:36:33 endorse it and request your approval.
15:36:39 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
15:36:42 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Is it going stay yellow?
15:36:46 >>> I think they are going to change the color.
15:36:47 Those half timber beams are going to become a little
15:36:50 more prominent.
15:36:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone to speak on item 89?
15:36:55 If you want to speak, come up quickly.
15:36:57 We are pushing for time.
15:37:02 >>ERIC COTTON: Land development.

15:37:03 Petitioner change changed his request to a 2(COP-X)
15:37:06 because the ordinance was written in a 2(COP), now a
15:37:10 2(COP-X).
15:37:13 >>> Good afternoon.
15:37:16 My name is Gary Ellsworth, president of the south
15:37:19 Seminole Heights civic association.
15:37:20 I have been sworn.
15:37:23 This has been supported by the joint land use
15:37:26 committee and you have had a definition of what
15:37:28 comprises the joint land use committee earlier so I
15:37:30 won't go into that again.
15:37:32 In addition, we surveyed our membership database for
15:37:37 their opinion on this, and we also hand delivered
15:37:39 postcards to the three, the block that this is on,
15:37:42 which is wilder, and the block to each side.
15:37:48 I received back approximately ten responses.
15:37:51 All but two are positive.
15:37:52 And also keep in mind at the time we solicited these
15:37:55 comments, we thought it was going to be a 2(COP)
15:37:58 versus an X.
15:38:02 But we support this wholeheartedly.
15:38:10 We appreciate their efforts to keep this building as a

15:38:14 viable business.
15:38:15 And I think when we look at where we are heading on
15:38:18 form based code this is a perfect example of how form
15:38:21 based code can work by taking the form of the building
15:38:23 and turning it into a viable business.
15:38:26 This building has been several things since it was
15:38:29 built in the 20s, and we are glad to see that it's
15:38:32 going to be continued to be restored and have a
15:38:36 feasible use.
15:38:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
15:38:38 Next speaker.
15:38:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Madam Chair, I'm sorry to interrupt
15:38:43 but I had received a letter from Mr. Masamini.
15:38:47 Are you going to speak, sir?
15:38:48 Did you want this distributed at that time?
15:38:51 FROM THE FLOOR: (off microphone).
15:38:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Okay.
15:38:56 Sorry.
15:38:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Put your name on the record, please.
15:38:59 >>> I'm Jack Barnes.
15:39:02 I own the property across the street.
15:39:03 I own the property next door.

15:39:05 And I would like to know how these people plan to keep
15:39:08 people off of my parking lot.
15:39:14 >>GWEN MILLER: That will be answered later.
15:39:16 You will get an answer later from the petitioner.
15:39:19 The petitioner will be back up to speak and he will
15:39:21 let you know how they are going to do their parking.
15:39:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is there anything else?
15:39:26 Any other concerns, sir?
15:39:27 >>GWEN MILLER: No, just the parking.
15:39:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me see.
15:39:31 Did you have any other concerns?
15:39:32 Did you have -- you have three minutes.
15:39:35 We didn't want to cut you off.
15:39:36 >>> I have concern, that I am going to have another
15:39:40 bar in my neighborhood and I'm going to have to be out
15:39:43 there picking up all of their bottles and so forth
15:39:45 because people go to the car with their bottles and
15:39:48 they just drop them on the lot, and I have to keep
15:39:50 them cleaned up so that I can park my vehicles there.
15:39:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
15:40:00 >>> Elizabeth Graham.
15:40:10 I get very passionate when I see things changing.

15:40:15 It affects me wholeheartedly, I believe.
15:40:18 And I love our neighborhood and I am here to support
15:40:20 anything that is going to -- that is going to better
15:40:29 my neighborhood.
15:40:29 My concerns are again just the hours, and holidays,
15:40:36 and the days permitted.
15:40:38 My concern is with the parking as well.
15:40:41 We have parking in the back of the building.
15:40:46 I'm under an assumption.
15:40:48 None of these people have talked to me directly.
15:40:50 I'm a block and a half away from them.
15:40:54 I was under the impression that there is going to be
15:41:01 live music, and in the back of the property, which we
15:41:07 think right now was parking at one time.
15:41:12 I just wanted to see if the hours are going to be
15:41:17 consistent.
15:41:18 Sunday through Thursday at 12:00, and the music ending
15:41:25 at 10, Friday and Saturdays, and all holidays that
15:41:31 they mentioned as well as mine, ending at 1:00, and
15:41:34 the music being not live but amplified, and it does --
15:41:50 it was a really huge problem in our neighborhood.
15:41:52 So everyone though there is music -- I mean, front

15:41:59 porch is allowed to stay open till three.
15:42:02 Cappy's is allowed to stay open till three.
15:42:04 You are allowed theoretically.
15:42:06 However, some consistency is being broken right now.
15:42:12 I was under the impression that guidelines were set a
15:42:15 few months ago.
15:42:17 I'm just confused.
15:42:23 Thank you.
15:42:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
15:42:25 Next speaker.
15:42:27 >> Randy Baron, 217 west Comanche Avenue.
15:42:31 I have been sworn.
15:42:32 You know, we were supposed to pass the comp plan
15:42:35 today.
15:42:35 I guess it's been continued.
15:42:37 But one of the elements is adaptive reuse.
15:42:39 This is a perfect example of adaptive reuse, on the
15:42:44 corridor that is struggling to come back.
15:42:46 We have viable businesses there. We are trying to
15:42:49 attract more.
15:42:50 One of the reasons why we are trying to get a policy
15:42:54 on wet zonings or recommendations, Mrs. Mulhern, so

15:43:00 that we can attract businesses and ensure that they
15:43:02 are all successful, and they are all playing on an
15:43:05 equal level.
15:43:06 And that's what we are going to come up with.
15:43:08 Now with respect to in the parking, hopefully a lot of
15:43:11 these issues will be addressed through the form-based
15:43:14 zoning.
15:43:14 These are small parcels.
15:43:16 The current zoning codes are designed for the big
15:43:21 outparcel shopping centers.
15:43:22 So we are trying to figure out a way to accommodate
15:43:24 these kinds of businesses into the historic pattern of
15:43:28 development from that neighborhood.
15:43:30 Maybe what we can do is convince FDOT to allow
15:43:34 off-street parking on Florida Avenue when the traffic
15:43:38 counts go down to almost nothing and that would solve
15:43:41 some of the problems of backing out into the
15:43:42 right-of-way.
15:43:43 So in summary, the land use, and you will be hearing
15:43:48 from the chair later, did address these.
15:43:52 A letter has been written.
15:43:55 We negotiated these, or have talked about these

15:43:58 particular restrictions and conditions.
15:44:04 All three associations have agreed to it.
15:44:05 I think it going to be a wonderful project.
15:44:07 I think it going to continue the critical mass along
15:44:10 that stretch, it's only going to help Cappy's and help
15:44:14 Bungalow Bistro to bring people in.
15:44:16 So I encourage City Council to look favorably upon
15:44:20 this petition.
15:44:21 Thank you.
15:44:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
15:44:25 >>> My name is Michael Welch. I live at 5918 north --
15:44:28 Avenue.
15:44:29 I lived there for ten years in Seminole Heights.
15:44:32 I'm strongly in favor of this proposal.
15:44:37 Petitioners have another bar in St. Petersburg.
15:44:39 I go there quite a bit.
15:44:40 It's a long drive but it's a great place.
15:44:47 The same type of situation here, long tables where you
15:44:50 can meet your tables, music at conversational levels,
15:44:54 it's all about getting to meet your neighbors, and pub
15:44:58 atmosphere is very friendly.
15:45:00 And I'm definitely in support of it.

15:45:03 And I hope that you will support it.
15:45:05 Thanks.
15:45:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
15:45:10 >>> Ben Mills. 6502 North Ninth Street.
15:45:15 I also live in Seminole Heights as well.
15:45:19 Longing for places to go that aren't -- someplace you
15:45:24 don't want to get into a knife fight.
15:45:27 It's wonderful for development, Florida and Nebraska.
15:45:31 It's so long coming.
15:45:32 It's so exciting to see, especially right now when
15:45:37 everybody is canceling projects.
15:45:39 In our line of development I see developments
15:45:41 constantly and it's dried up, and the fact that people
15:45:44 are still doing in the my neighborhood on Florida and
15:45:46 Nebraska and nearby it's just heartwarming.
15:45:50 I really look forward to it.
15:45:54 A neighborhood with places that I can go to.
15:45:56 Thank you.
15:46:01 >>> My name is Ingrid Smith, I reside at 5605 north
15:46:05 Suwannee Avenue.
15:46:07 Yes, I have been sworn.
15:46:08 I live about five, six blocks north.

15:46:12 So I will be walking, not driving.
15:46:15 And they came in and asked what would be neighborhood
15:46:19 friendly hours.
15:46:21 And the fact that they included Thursday as part of
15:46:24 their weekend.
15:46:26 Guidelines are not set in stone.
15:46:28 They are going to be flexible according to the
15:46:31 business or what the immediate neighbors are
15:46:36 supporting.
15:46:40 I think the outdoor seating faces toward the street,
15:46:43 and there's not an elevation issue where they are
15:46:46 projecting into the homes.
15:46:47 So the music is not an issue.
15:46:51 There's a vacant lot between them and Cappy's.
15:46:54 A lot of what I understand support from the
15:46:58 neighborhood.
15:46:59 Hopefully a good portion will be environmentally
15:47:01 friendly and either walk or bike to them.
15:47:03 But I do support them, the hours, the days, the
15:47:08 outdoor music they have agreed to an hour prior to
15:47:12 closing, and I'm fine with that as well.
15:47:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The gentleman who was concerned

15:47:18 about his parking next door, it looks like he left.
15:47:21 What type of business?
15:47:25 >>> Printing.
15:47:26 >> Printing shop?
15:47:28 >>> He owns a lot there.
15:47:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Maybe he will come back.
15:47:35 Are you finished?
15:47:37 >>> Yes, that's it.
15:47:40 >> Mike Masamini, Seminole Heights.
15:47:45 We have worked hard to develop these guidelines so new
15:47:47 businesses that come into the neighborhood will know
15:47:49 what to expect from the association.
15:47:51 I know that there is some inconsistency possibly with
15:47:54 businesses in the past, and that's why we are working
15:47:56 so hard to develop a set of guidelines that everybody
15:47:58 can rely on.
15:48:00 So again I would like to read those guidelines.
15:48:03 The same support that we gave on the previous
15:48:05 applicant.
15:48:06 Alcohol not to be served past midnight.
15:48:09 Sunday through Wednesday.
15:48:10 Alcohol not to be served past 1 a.m. Thursday through

15:48:13 Saturday.
15:48:15 And up to seven additional days can be chosen by the
15:48:19 applicant and outdoor music terminating one hour prior
15:48:23 to closing.
15:48:23 So thank you very much.
15:48:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
15:48:25 Next speaker.
15:48:28 >>> Melissa Demming, 4008 North Seminole Avenue.
15:48:32 As a resident and new business owner in the area, I
15:48:35 also support the wet zoning for this property and I'm
15:48:38 excited to be another -- to see another business
15:48:41 opening up.
15:48:41 I think it only helps the area to create -- make
15:48:45 Seminole Heights a destination area as well as enjoy
15:48:49 the other residences as well.
15:48:50 >> Michael Graham, Bungalow Bistro.
15:49:01 I just want to voice a concern again about the hours.
15:49:06 You are probably tired of hearing me talk about hours
15:49:09 but we passed this over quite a bit of times with you
15:49:14 people, enough bars in this neighborhood.
15:49:16 And I just hope you take that into consideration,
15:49:18 because, you know, somebody staying open AP hour or

15:49:20 two later, and got later hours on Wednesday night, you
15:49:24 know, Thursday night, and we only got Friday and
15:49:27 Saturday, it just doesn't seem fair to me.
15:49:29 And I just hope you weigh this.
15:49:31 Thank you.
15:49:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone else?
15:49:35 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What are your hours?
15:49:36 >>> Our hours are Sunday through Thursday, until
15:49:42 11:00.
15:49:43 And then Friday and Saturday -- well, we have to close
15:49:46 at one.
15:49:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
15:49:51 >> (Speaking off microphone)
15:49:59 >>GWEN MILLER: You cannot speak out from the audience.
15:50:01 Okay, sir, come on.
15:50:02 >>> My name is Eric Holsinger, and I live at 5202
15:50:04 north Suwannee.
15:50:06 I have been sworn.
15:50:07 I would just like to say I'm in favor of this.
15:50:09 And also I think the guidelines are a good starting
15:50:14 point.
15:50:14 But the same request that I made when the discussion

15:50:19 for the Bungalow Bistro, I think you should look at
15:50:21 the particulars of the property, and the immediate
15:50:24 neighbors rather than the community at large.
15:50:28 I would also like to applaud the proposed owners for
15:50:33 coming forth with reasonable hours off the bat, didn't
15:50:36 force the neighborhood to fight against unreasonable
15:50:39 hours.
15:50:40 Very consistent with the neighborhood.
15:50:41 Thank you.
15:50:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Steve, let me ask you a quick
15:50:47 question.
15:50:47 The biggest concern I have at this point is covered
15:50:50 wood deck which shows up on the site plan, but it
15:50:52 shows up on the rear corner of the site plan.
15:50:57 Of the site, away from Florida.
15:50:59 >>STEVE MICHELINI: That already exists.
15:51:02 That's not new construction.
15:51:03 >> Sorry?
15:51:03 >>> That already exists.
15:51:05 It's not new construction.
15:51:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But the question is --
15:51:09 >>> It's part of the -- that's where the walk-in

15:51:12 cooler is going.
15:51:13 That's not where the --
15:51:14 >> That was my question.
15:51:15 Where is the outdoor area going?
15:51:18 >>> I have a picture.
15:51:19 Let me show you.
15:51:22 The outside dining is in the front here underneath the
15:51:24 canopy.
15:51:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's what I was hoping.
15:51:27 But when I say covered wood deck.
15:51:29 So my only request is that between now and second
15:51:32 reading that there's some clarification that that --
15:51:35 >>STEVE MICHELINI: That's fine.
15:51:36 >> Let me just finish, Steve.
15:51:38 That any outdoor eating or music would be on the
15:51:44 Florida Avenue side.
15:51:45 >>> Yes, sir.
15:51:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
15:51:48 >>STEVE MICHELINI: The vacant lot that you are
15:51:50 referring to is here.
15:51:56 And than currently is being leased by Cappy's for
15:51:59 additional parking for Cappy's.

15:52:01 And these petitioners and Cappy's are working together
15:52:04 with the owner to extend that for both restaurants to
15:52:07 share.
15:52:07 That negotiation has not been completed yet.
15:52:10 But it's in the process.
15:52:16 >>MARY MULHERN: Is that owner, the man who just left?
15:52:19 >>> Yes.
15:52:19 >> It looks like you better negotiate a little better.
15:52:23 >>> Right.
15:52:24 The lease is with Cappy's already.
15:52:26 They have it tied up.
15:52:27 And what the discussions were, that these petitioners
15:52:29 would share in the expense of paying for the monthly
15:52:34 lease and policing it to make sure that people don't
15:52:36 litter and things like that.
15:52:38 One other thing I wanted to clarify is that this is
15:52:41 not for any alcohol to go.
15:52:43 This is on premises so there are not beer bottles
15:52:48 being littered out across the neighborhood.
15:52:51 >> It sounds like you just need to talk to him and
15:52:54 reassure him.
15:52:57 Then I have two more questions, or one question.

15:53:00 Just to make sure, I didn't count all those nights and
15:53:04 their guidelines say seven, or additional days to be
15:53:07 open.
15:53:10 How many you named, seven?
15:53:11 >>> Yes.
15:53:12 >> Okay, good.
15:53:12 >>> I went over them with the neighborhood association
15:53:15 before I got --
15:53:17 >> I just wasn't counting.
15:53:19 And a couple other things.
15:53:20 One, and I apologize to Mr. Baron.
15:53:25 I don't think you should be making policy as a
15:53:27 neighborhood association but guidelines are great and
15:53:29 we welcome those.
15:53:30 I couldn't think of the word.
15:53:31 But guidelines are wonderful.
15:53:34 And I'm glad you are doing it.
15:53:35 And then I would like to say to the Grahams that as I
15:53:41 recall, it was awhile ago when we -- we approved
15:53:46 your -- your wet zoning, and we also approved package
15:53:51 sales for you.
15:53:52 So we did go a little further than perhaps, I don't

15:54:00 know what the Seminole Heights current guidelines are
15:54:03 for that, but the other thing I want to say is if you
15:54:06 have I think -- or maybe this is a question for Ms.
15:54:12 Kert -- can they come back and ask for different hours
15:54:15 for their wet zoning if they feel that they don't have
15:54:18 the --
15:54:22 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes, it would be a neither complete
15:54:25 new application.
15:54:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Don't speak out from the audience.
15:54:28 >>MARY MULHERN: You are open to do that.
15:54:31 And I think if you really are concerned about your own
15:54:33 business hours, then there's no reason for you not to
15:54:36 go ahead and do that.
15:54:39 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Michelini, is there a
15:54:42 billboard next door?
15:54:43 It looks like --
15:54:45 >>STEVE MICHELINI: There's a billboard on the vacant
15:54:47 lot.
15:54:51 >> The one you showed in the picture?
15:54:53 >>> That's a vacant lot next door.
15:54:55 We don't own that.
15:54:56 The only billboard that I'm aware of is this one here,

15:55:00 the sign that's on the premises.
15:55:01 That's for the actual.
15:55:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
15:55:15 >>GWEN MILLER: You spent all your time.
15:55:18 That's enough.
15:55:18 >>STEVE MICHELINI: One thing I would like to say.
15:55:20 I'm sorry, go ahead.
15:55:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What time?
15:55:25 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I would like to say one thing.
15:55:26 Its useful when a group of neighborhood association
15:55:28 gets together and establishes a guideline for
15:55:31 petitioners to follow, because it avoids a lot of
15:55:35 debate here in front of City Council, it helps us as
15:55:38 we are representing our various clients, and we know
15:55:41 what it is going in.
15:55:44 And by also including the holiday schedule, you take a
15:55:47 lot of pressure off of that 2 a.m. time limit that we
15:55:51 run into on not just this petition but hundreds of
15:55:54 them.
15:55:55 And it is a great way to defuse situations, and I
15:55:59 applaud them for bringing that forward and working
15:56:01 with us to accommodate that.

15:56:02 And council, I think you are going to see more of that
15:56:10 to also give us some relief.
15:56:12 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion to close the public
15:56:13 hearing.
15:56:13 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
15:56:15 Opposed?
15:56:16 Go ahead.
15:56:20 >>ERIC COTTON: To reiterate a few changes that need to
15:56:22 be made to the site plan.
15:56:28 Which would be the change for the 2(COP-X), from the
15:56:33 2(COP), and to list the hours.
15:56:40 Thank you.
15:56:40 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
15:56:42 I'll substitute an ordinance based on the fact that
15:56:43 the applicant has today changed his application to an
15:56:46 X.
15:56:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
15:56:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Substitute ordinance.
15:56:51 Move an ordinance first reading approving a special
15:56:53 use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, small
15:56:56 venue and making lawful the sell of beverages
15:56:59 containing alcohol more than 1% by weight and not more

15:57:02 than 14% by weight and wines regardless of alcoholic
15:57:04 content beer and wine 2(COP-X) for consumption on the
15:57:07 premises only at or from that certain lot, plot or
15:57:10 tract of land located at 5016 North Florida Avenue,
15:57:14 Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in
15:57:15 section 2 hereof approving waivers as set forth
15:57:18 herein, waiving certain restrictions as to distance
15:57:22 based on certain findings providing for repeal of
15:57:25 ordinances in conflict providing an effective date
15:57:28 including the conditions outlined by Mr. Cotton
15:57:30 related to hours of operation, and buffering, the
15:57:39 holiday, and the 2(COP-X) which is already on here.
15:57:44 Thank you.
15:57:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
15:57:46 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
15:57:48 All in favor say Aye.
15:57:49 Opposed, Nay.
15:57:50 >>THE CLERK: Second reading and adoption will be held
15:57:52 on February 5th, 2009 at 9:30.
15:57:56 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Thank you.
15:57:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 90.
15:58:03 City attorney.

15:58:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe on item 90 I believe
15:58:06 council members Dingfelder and Saul-Sena have
15:58:08 statements they wish to address relative to this
15:58:10 petition.
15:58:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Item number 90 I have to recuse
15:58:16 myself because I live and own the property four lots
15:58:20 away from this petition and I was in the zoning notice
15:58:23 circle, and so legal counsel has advised me to recuse
15:58:26 myself.
15:58:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
15:58:30 Similarly, my husband and I own some apartments within
15:58:33 the zoning notice circle, so I have been advised by
15:58:36 Mr. Shelby to recuse myself.
15:58:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And I believe, council, you have
15:58:42 signed and are filing the form for that conflict.
15:58:44 >> Correct.
15:58:44 >> Council, what that means is that there is not four
15:58:48 votes present to be able to hear this case.
15:58:52 And everyone if there were four votes there would be a
15:58:55 concern because that would require unanimous vote with
15:58:57 Mr. Miranda being absent and Mr. Scott having to leave
15:59:01 early.

15:59:01 What do you wish to do in terms of a continuance, Mr.
15:59:04 Michelini?
15:59:05 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I understand there is a special
15:59:06 called meeting next Thursday morning, and respectfully
15:59:09 request to be continued until 9:30 next Thursday
15:59:11 morning.
15:59:17 >> So moved.
15:59:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
15:59:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to continue to next
15:59:21 Thursday at 9:30.
15:59:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Before you vote on that, I want to be
15:59:26 clear that I am putting it on the record that this is a
15:59:29 procedural matter, and that being the same, for a
15:59:33 quorum to be able to set this, it's my determination
15:59:36 that there is no conflict with regard to you making a
15:59:39 procedural matter to reset it to next week.
15:59:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
15:59:45 >> Who made the motion?
15:59:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Caetano.
15:59:52 All in favor?
15:59:55 All opposed?
15:59:58 Okay.

15:59:58 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Thank you very much.
15:59:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 91.
16:00:07 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
16:00:08 What you have before you on this item is an appeal
16:00:11 from the city's determination that had it was
16:00:15 appropriate to remove a grand tree based on the fact
16:00:18 that was hazardous.
16:00:20 I am passing out things to you, because you don't see
16:00:24 these very often, and I wanted you to have in front of
16:00:27 you the code provisions that are relevant.
16:00:30 The first item is the item entitled exhibit I, a tree
16:00:37 hazard evaluation form.
16:00:38 When someone comes in and requests to remove a grand
16:00:41 tree because it's hazardous, they are required under
16:00:44 the code, the city is required under the code to use
16:00:46 this form to determine whether or not the tree is
16:00:50 hazardous.
16:00:51 That's the first step in the evaluation.
16:00:52 If the tree is in fact determined to be hazardous, and
16:00:59 needs to be removed then a permit is issued.
16:01:02 The second thing I'm handing out to you starts with D,
16:01:08 adverse impacts.

16:01:13 Because this is in front of City Council, required to
16:01:17 review whether removal of the grand tree because it's
16:01:19 hazardous will have adverse impacts, and you will have
16:01:22 a list of five criteria.
16:01:23 The five criteria are not a basis to deny the granting
16:01:31 of the permit to remove the tree.
16:01:33 If it's a hazardous tree, the tree needs to have a
16:01:35 permit to come out.
16:01:39 What the criteria are supposed to do is considered to
16:01:41 see if there's any mitigating circumstances, or
16:01:43 mitigating conditions, that could be placed upon the
16:01:47 removal permit, to mitigate these adverse impacts.
16:01:52 I hope that's clear.
16:01:53 Staff is going to present first, and then if the
16:01:56 property owner is present, the property owner will
16:01:59 present, and then the appellant will present.
16:02:02 It is a third-party appeal, not the property owner.
16:02:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me, can I just ask a
16:02:09 question?
16:02:10 Just to clarify.
16:02:12 The appellant is not the party that asked to remove
16:02:16 the tree.

16:02:17 It's the neighbors?
16:02:20 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes, that's correct.
16:02:21 >>> David Reilly, parks and recreation.
16:02:28 I have been sworn.
16:02:29 I have a short PowerPoint presentation that I would
16:02:31 like to put up, if they could go ahead and run that.
16:02:41 >>GWEN MILLER: It's up.
16:02:41 >>> This is our standard operating procedure, how we
16:02:44 evaluate all trees, and the pictures you are going to
16:02:46 see are actually pictures of this particular tree.
16:02:57 I just want to show this.
16:03:05 These are the two books that we use as guidelines when
16:03:07 we are evaluating trees.
16:03:09 The red book on the left is the ISA International
16:03:13 Society of Arboriculturalist removal of hazard trees.
16:03:20 The other is Bartlett tree service.
16:03:23 These are the two authorities that we refer to when we
16:03:25 are doing hazard assessment.
16:03:33 I just want to show you, this is the first thing I see
16:03:35 when I get out of the car is there's a big cavity
16:03:38 right below those two limbs.
16:03:39 I am going to be addressing that in a moment.

16:03:44 The next thing is we are addressing the canopy as we
16:03:46 approach the tree.
16:03:47 We are looking for uniformly balanced and overall
16:03:52 color.
16:03:52 And in this particular case, we are noticing extensive
16:03:57 amount of deadwood on the outer part of the canopy.
16:04:05 This is again just a little closer up of that section
16:04:12 of the deadwood.
16:04:17 And this would be another section through the middle.
16:04:26 This much is a big section of mistletoe.
16:04:30 What it tells me is the location of the deadwood is on
16:04:33 the outer portion of the canopy.
16:04:35 That's a serious concern.
16:04:35 Deadwood normally occurs on the inner parts of the
16:04:38 tree as they become shaded.
16:04:40 So when I see deadwood on the outer portion of the
16:04:42 canopy, I'm thinking, with the mistletoe, that there
16:04:46 is a stress happening, there's some stress happening
16:04:48 on this tree.
16:04:52 Now, the next thing we look at is the root flares.
16:04:55 This is how close the tree, the trunk, the tree has.
16:05:01 I did not take the house into consideration for the

16:05:04 evaluation.
16:05:05 This is just up there to show you that in fact it was
16:05:07 close.
16:05:08 Now, as I am going around the base of the tree, one of
16:05:12 the first things I circle there is that little white,
16:05:17 what we call a comp.
16:05:18 That's a clear indication that there's decay in that
16:05:20 tree.
16:05:21 We don't know the extent, or how much of it, but we do
16:05:25 know that that's decay.
16:05:26 That's an indication of decay.
16:05:28 We also have --
16:05:31 >> Is that moss or something, Dave?
16:05:33 >>> Dave Riley: No, that's a comp, a wood --
16:05:39 >> Like infection coming out of the tree?
16:05:40 >>> Yes, right.
16:05:41 So that only occurs when there's deadwood or decay
16:05:44 present.
16:05:44 And these two other areas that I highlighted, actually
16:05:48 the up-and-down had what we found was little black
16:05:54 sawdust which is actually insect doo-doo so we know we
16:06:01 have insects working on the decay.

16:06:03 This is the second, another scene on another portion
16:06:07 of the tree and again we found the same insect -- in
16:06:14 there.
16:06:14 And there's a last stop.
16:06:15 Although there's no decay detected there, because of
16:06:18 the little white, I would suggest that would have to
16:06:22 be, if we were in the private sector, that would be
16:06:25 investigated a little further.
16:06:27 Having looked at the base I'm kind of sure that we
16:06:30 have got some decay going.
16:06:32 Then what we do is we evaluate the trunk.
16:06:34 And in this case we have a cavity up there, which
16:06:41 turns out, that's the cavity that we originally
16:06:43 showed.
16:06:45 I'm concerned about the location of this cavity,
16:06:48 because it's right at the bottom of the junction of
16:06:51 those two limbs.
16:06:52 And if that cavity and the decay have spread, that's
16:06:57 going to further weaken those two limbs, and their
16:07:00 attachment.
16:07:01 So that in itself is a concern.
16:07:04 Then we have another -- it not showing up too clearly

16:07:10 here.
16:07:11 However, there's another small wound there that has
16:07:15 completely calloused over.
16:07:16 There's another one down here on the bottom.
16:07:24 It's that limb.
16:07:25 In the center there's another little white comp.
16:07:28 So again it's clear there's indicated decay in there.
16:07:32 And then there's an additional scene that you see that
16:07:36 crack in the trunk, where that's located which is
16:07:39 directly under that big limb.
16:07:40 So when we have scenes on the trunk like that directly
16:07:45 on the limbs again that's a further indication of
16:07:47 decay.
16:07:47 So I'm looking at with those three location of those
16:07:51 wounds, what we would call decay column.
16:07:54 So the decay is spreading down through the tree, and
16:07:58 that's why I think we are seeing the problems at the
16:08:01 base of the tree that I originally showed.
16:08:04 So now what we are doing is we are looking at the
16:08:07 attachments of the limbs, and what you will see here
16:08:10 is multiple stems, all attached in one area, what we
16:08:16 call included bark.

16:08:18 So normally when included bark happens the bark gets
16:08:23 pinched downward, the bark rubs like this and there's
16:08:28 no joining of the wood.
16:08:29 So that in itself is a defect, if that alone was the
16:08:34 problem that would not be enough to condemn the tree
16:08:36 but we have to look again at the whole possibility.
16:08:39 So we go in a little closer, and again you see the --
16:08:46 that's a cavity, pruning wound that never calloused
16:08:51 over.
16:08:51 I bring this up for a couple of reasons, because again
16:08:54 when I look at decay -- the canopy and I see the
16:08:57 deadwood, and I see this types of cuts throughout the
16:09:02 tree, and what happened, I'm pretty sure, is that this
16:09:05 tree had been overpruned years ago, what we call lions
16:09:09 tail, where everything is stripped out of the middle.
16:09:11 That affected the tree so substantially that it was
16:09:14 never able to fix itself.
16:09:19 It just put it into a point where it started spiraling
16:09:23 down.
16:09:24 That should be completely calloused over with noon
16:09:26 decay behind it.
16:09:27 And that's not a big cut.

16:09:28 So that cut should have had no problem healing.
16:09:31 So when I see that problem, and I see that it not
16:09:34 healing, and I see it throughout the tree, I know that
16:09:37 there's been serious effect to the tree.
16:09:41 And then you have the dead stuff next to the.
16:09:43 I think I have maybe one last picture.
16:09:49 Okay, that must have been my last picture.
16:09:51 So we did evaluate the tree, and based on everything
16:09:55 that I saw, the canopy, the indications, I felt
16:09:59 confident at our level of inspection, which is the
16:10:03 visual, that this tree met the criteria for being a
16:10:07 hazard.
16:10:08 And as I wrap up, just two points again.
16:10:11 I believe a large portion of this problem was due to
16:10:16 past overpruning years ago.
16:10:17 And I also want to thank the Davis Island neighborhood
16:10:22 and people that were concerned.
16:10:25 We received a lot of calls on this.
16:10:26 We appreciate, and we don't have any -- we don't mind
16:10:30 being up here defending ourselves.
16:10:32 We would rather have them out there looking out for
16:10:34 our trees, keeping us honest, than not looking at the

16:10:40 trees.
16:10:41 So we do appreciate and we hope they continue looking
16:10:43 for us.
16:10:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
16:10:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: David, based on your evaluation,
16:10:50 that we have got your evaluation form here, what did
16:10:54 the points end up?
16:10:58 Potential size of defect, target rating?
16:11:03 >>> The evaluation, we added a second section to the.
16:11:15 I'm not sure.
16:11:16 Okay.
16:11:17 So this section is actually what you are looking at, I
16:11:20 believe.
16:11:21 Where you evaluate the size of the defect and the
16:11:29 target.
16:11:30 So in this particular case it's so close to the house,
16:11:32 the target is automatically a 4.
16:11:37 As far as the size of the pieces, I felt that any one
16:11:39 of those predominant stems, any one of those could
16:11:45 fail at any time.
16:11:46 So I approximated the most likely ones to fail be
16:11:51 around 18 inches, and then the top one is the amount

16:11:57 of defect, and with what I showed here today I thought
16:12:02 were significant defect to grant that a high number,
16:12:06 also.
16:12:06 So in essence I came up with a hazard rating of 10 out
16:12:10 of 12.
16:12:11 >> Then what do you do with that 10?
16:12:13 >>> Well, again it's a little subjective.
16:12:15 One of the things I didn't mention is this species, I
16:12:18 look at that 10, that tells me that it's higher than
16:12:24 an average risk.
16:12:27 There's low risk, average risk, and then you get into
16:12:29 the higher risk.
16:12:30 When I look at a 10, or I consider that to be a high
16:12:34 risk.
16:12:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
16:12:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions?
16:12:38 Now we hear from Mrs. Kert?
16:12:43 Who would like to speak?
16:12:44 >> My name is John Hofek. I'm the property owner at
16:12:54 624 Bosphorous.
16:12:56 I have been sworn.
16:12:57 I didn't think I would be talking today so I didn't

16:12:59 get sworn in at the beginning but when I was looking
16:13:02 around for Dave, and I thought I might have to say
16:13:04 something, I decided.
16:13:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just as a point of order.
16:13:08 The appellant is, I assume, the other gentleman.
16:13:12 >>> That's correct.
16:13:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So who is first?
16:13:21 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
16:13:21 You don't have a set process for these third party
16:13:24 appeals.
16:13:24 However, it is a de novo appeal.
16:13:27 And typically on a de novo appeal, you are starting
16:13:30 fresh.
16:13:30 So you would have the property owner demonstrate
16:13:33 whatever evidence, why they thought they were entitled
16:13:35 to the permit and then you would have the appellant,
16:13:38 in the situation where you have a third party,
16:13:40 sometimes there's double rebuttal.
16:13:41 It's a little bit back and forth.
16:13:43 We are working on clarifying so bee do think it
16:13:45 appropriate.
16:13:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just keep us straight.

16:13:49 >>> I was actually told by the Parks and Recreation
16:13:51 Department City of Tampa that I wouldn't need to say
16:13:53 anything today so I am kind of winging it.
16:13:56 I think I should.
16:13:59 Do you want me to wait?
16:14:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Five minutes, I think?
16:14:06 What do you need, five minutes?
16:14:07 >>> I just need three minutes.
16:14:11 It's your tolerance level, how much you want to hear
16:14:13 from me.
16:14:14 First let me tell but this property back in September.
16:14:16 I'm a native, this is our second tour at MacDill.
16:14:23 One of the reasons we live on Davis islands, it is a
16:14:25 pretty area.
16:14:26 We bought this property because of the beautiful
16:14:28 trees.
16:14:28 So the last thing I want to do as a Navy guy is spend
16:14:32 2500 bucks to have a tree removed.
16:14:34 There you have it.
16:14:35 Moved into the property when we started looking at the
16:14:37 tree, as Mr. Reillyeilley showed, very, very close to
16:14:40 the corner of the house.

16:14:41 We were very concerned about the tree.
16:14:43 It does look like it's dying.
16:14:45 It is a hazard to our property.
16:14:48 This is hurricane country. If a hurricane would blow
16:14:52 it onto our property or onto a neighbor's property.
16:14:55 Second, I thought our neighbors thought we wanted to
16:14:58 remove this tree because we had a sewer line problem.
16:15:00 Well, we have that too.
16:15:02 Four days after closing on the house and moving in,
16:15:04 our sewage completely backed up in our house, toilets
16:15:07 plugged, everything.
16:15:08 Long story short, multiple city official visits and
16:15:11 all the stuff we are here today, but the sewer line is
16:15:13 ruined.
16:15:13 I can't tell you where the sewage is going right now.
16:15:16 I can tell you it's not getting backed up into the
16:15:18 house anymore.
16:15:19 It might be going into his yard, I'm not really sure.
16:15:21 But the secondary issue, we'll deal with that.
16:15:24 Bum we can't get to the sewer line until we remove
16:15:27 this tree that is dying.
16:15:29 So I'm kind of in a catch-22 here.

16:15:32 So I have a tree that is dying.
16:15:36 A number of inspectors, plumbers, arborists, on top
16:15:41 of --
16:15:43 >> 22nd of September, I believe?
16:15:45 >>> I believe it was the 22nd.
16:15:48 I sent a detailed package to the city including entire
16:15:51 time line of events, certification letters for the
16:15:53 arborist.
16:15:54 We had the whole see sequence of event.
16:16:00 I don't know if it was your wife.
16:16:03 I Nevada met you but I met her because I went to meet
16:16:06 her and explain this to her.
16:16:08 You gave you my word when I talked by phone that I
16:16:10 would not cut this tree down unless I absolutely had
16:16:13 to and then the tree service kind of jumped the gun
16:16:15 and put out the required letter before I had a chance
16:16:18 to talk to everybody.
16:16:19 At that pointed it was somewhat confrontational.
16:16:21 I didn't want to go to neighbors and initiate a
16:16:24 conversation.
16:16:24 I thought before you distributed your flier maybe
16:16:26 would you come talk to us about why we were doing.

16:16:28 This so that's where we are today.
16:16:30 I don't want to cut the tree down.
16:16:32 It is a hazard.
16:16:33 The city arborist has a reputation of being very
16:16:36 conservative. I don't want to spend the money.
16:16:38 However, I am very concerned about our property.
16:16:40 I think this tree is a hazard.
16:16:41 It's a hazard to our property.
16:16:43 It's a hazard to his property.
16:16:45 And there are eight other oaks, I don't know which
16:16:48 ones, how many, six or five, all five grand oaks, so
16:16:51 the birds have choices where they nest.
16:16:58 I have of a question, probably for Rebecca.
16:17:00 This is de novo but shouldn't we be able to be the --
16:17:06 hire a private arborist?
16:17:07 Do we have that report?
16:17:09 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
16:17:10 He can submit whatever information he wants to at this
16:17:12 hearing.
16:17:17 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't have that in his records.
16:17:19 >>> The backup is supplied by the appellant, so
16:17:21 anything he wants to submit to you, he can.

16:17:27 >> It has my notes over it and everything but you are
16:17:30 welcome to it.
16:17:32 I will give this to you, as I said.
16:17:34 For the record, it's my e-mail to the city officials,
16:17:37 specifically David Riley, Kerry Miller, Cathy Beck,
16:17:42 City of Tampa, parks and recreation.
16:17:44 It is a further justification for the tree removal.
16:17:48 It is the certification for the independent arborist
16:17:52 we had come to our house.
16:17:56 The certificate.
16:17:57 His assessment.
16:17:58 Panorama tree service.
16:18:00 The issues with the tree.
16:18:02 I had not seen Mr. Reilly's before today.
16:18:04 I guess you have that for your records.
16:18:05 The chronology of events from September 11 through
16:18:10 December 2nd, when four city officials came to the
16:18:13 house to personally look at this tree.
16:18:15 I believe Mr. Reilly was with them.
16:18:18 The inspection when we had the house inspected before
16:18:21 we bought it, there were concerns about the tree
16:18:23 impinging on the sewer line.

16:18:24 I took action to try to get it scoped.
16:18:27 They had trouble scoping the tree because of a turn.
16:18:29 They tried to go through the roof vent.
16:18:31 Subsequent to that, that's where we had the backup.
16:18:34 Had it snaked.
16:18:35 I had a certain letter saying we snaked it, had
16:18:40 nothing, good to go.
16:18:41 I thought okay, we don't have sewer problems.
16:18:43 >>MARY MULHERN: You should submitted all of that.
16:18:45 >>> Read it at your leisure.
16:18:50 Including the flier.
16:18:51 This is the letter that our neighbor sent to -- that
16:18:53 was sent to our neighbor.
16:19:03 We spoke to all our other neighbors, Jason across the
16:19:06 street, and they were perfectly happy with what we are
16:19:08 doing.
16:19:09 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Sir, you had an arborist there
16:19:12 inspect the tree.
16:19:13 And what was his opinion?
16:19:15 >>> His opinion is the tree was dying and needed to be
16:19:18 removed and was a hazard.
16:19:21 We actually looked at cutting the roots so it wasn't a

16:19:27 danger to our foundation because that's what we
16:19:29 thought the initial problem was but when the arborist
16:19:33 came out, said, it is a hazard, it is a hazard to your
16:19:38 house, and is dying.
16:19:39 >> It's too bad you didn't notice this prior to
16:19:41 closing.
16:19:43 >>> Well, like I said, I was concerned about the sewer
16:19:45 line.
16:19:46 The guy that the inspection said you could have
16:19:49 problems because properties on Davis Island often do.
16:19:52 And I thought I did the prudent thing and had it
16:19:54 inspected the best I could, certified it was good to
16:19:57 go.
16:19:58 In hindsight I never would have bought this property
16:20:00 but we are stuck with what we have.
16:20:02 So I'm spending 2500 bucks to have the tree removed
16:20:06 hopefully so we can get a new sewer line because every
16:20:08 time we don't flush the toilet we don't know if sewage
16:20:12 is coming back.
16:20:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
16:20:16 >>> Any further questions?
16:20:18 Thank you.

16:20:19 Next speaker.
16:20:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Madam Chair, he gets 15 minutes if he
16:20:26 needs it.
16:20:26 >>> Craig Carter, 626 Bosphorous Avenue.
16:20:31 I have been sworn.
16:20:32 >> How much time do you need, sir?
16:20:34 >>> Just a few minutes.
16:20:35 >> Okay.
16:20:39 He's going to take an equal amount of time.
16:20:41 Go ahead.
16:20:43 >>> Initially, we were concerned because the notice
16:20:45 was wrong.
16:20:46 So it threw up red flags to us that it was going to be
16:20:51 sneaked through.
16:20:52 The notice was not on Bosphorous Avenue.
16:20:56 It was adjacent to his house and not readable from the
16:20:58 street.
16:21:00 In talking to a couple of the neighbors, they were
16:21:04 unaware of what the notice was intended to do.
16:21:09 So it kind of threw up a red flag.
16:21:14 As far as the sewer situation, my wife and I were
16:21:19 happy to help and still are happy to help dig a new

16:21:22 sewer line to reroute around the tree.
16:21:25 I know that the sewer is not a reason to take out a
16:21:29 tree, especially a grand tree.
16:21:31 And we are still willing to contribute our time and
16:21:34 effort, labor, to assist with that, if that's
16:21:38 necessary.
16:21:39 I do think there's some things that could be done to
16:21:42 help the tree.
16:21:44 I have lived in houses that have had oaks in much
16:21:47 worse condition that have been living.
16:21:52 Just one off the top of my head ten years later, we
16:21:55 were told to cut it down ten years ago, it's twice as
16:21:59 big, still diseased, doesn't look good, but it's a big
16:22:02 tree and it provides a lot of, you know, niceness to
16:22:06 the neighborhood as far as shade, and enjoyability.
16:22:11 I would just lake to read a couple statements.
16:22:12 This is out of the city code.
16:22:15 And the attorney did speak on some of these.
16:22:20 I would like to say some of the things that would not
16:22:26 be considered, or would not allow a tree to be
16:22:31 removed, especially a grand tree, would be
16:22:34 substantially impacting the existing biological or

16:22:38 ecological system on a parcel of property, in addition
16:22:42 to substantially reduce available wildlife habitat on
16:22:46 a parcel of property.
16:22:48 Just as an example, this past netting season, there
16:22:51 were five nesting pairs of herrings on this
16:22:59 gentleman's property in the various trees.
16:23:00 This tree we believe is very important to keeping the
16:23:03 habitat viable.
16:23:06 It does provide a lot of wind abatement for the
16:23:09 surrounding oak trees, being that the other oaks
16:23:14 primarily in the area on his lot are of a different
16:23:16 type and have a more open canopy, and they don't block
16:23:22 the wind as well.
16:23:23 It does provide for a place for the young birds to fly
16:23:27 back and forth.
16:23:30 It also provides a lot of nesting materials in this
16:23:34 type -- and this type of oak seems to be more sticky
16:23:37 and leggy and have more dead branches on the interior
16:23:40 than the type right next door to them.
16:23:42 So we are very concerned about that.
16:23:45 I do have a couple pictures I can show.
16:24:02 This is a wading bird.

16:24:08 According to the research there is usually four eggs
16:24:10 or so per nest.
16:24:12 There were five nests with at least one to two infant
16:24:15 birds on each lot.
16:24:18 We are just worried that the removal of this tree is
16:24:20 going to impact the future of that condition being
16:24:22 able to continue.
16:24:24 It will definitely open up the canopy to wind and
16:24:28 provide less ground for the breeding activities.
16:24:32 Additionally, in the city code, it does state that it
16:24:37 should be considered this would substantially reduce
16:24:40 the fair market value of other parcels of property
16:24:43 located in the surrounding neighborhood, I'm not just
16:24:47 worried about my lot even though I'm next door.
16:24:50 I would have to say his lot is probably the most
16:24:52 beautiful lot on our street.
16:24:54 It is very well treed.
16:24:57 And I do think it will impact the area.
16:25:01 It's often, I think, a well-known fact that
16:25:05 neighborhoods with these grand trees are considered
16:25:06 the most desirable places to live, and walk and enjoy
16:25:10 the shade.

16:25:13 I would just like to caution that once it's cut, it's
16:25:15 a done deal.
16:25:18 I don't know if there's any possibility of repairing
16:25:22 the tree or having an arborist evaluate whether
16:25:26 there's some things that can be done to reduce the rot
16:25:28 and allow those cavities to close.
16:25:30 I have seen cavities such as that on trees that we
16:25:32 have owned close over time.
16:25:35 I know that a few of the ones in the pictures have
16:25:38 partially closed.
16:25:39 And I'm not an arborist.
16:25:42 I don't know if they will stop at that point or to
16:25:44 continue to close.
16:25:45 You can see some point where they have been trimmed,
16:25:48 and those gaps have been filled in.
16:25:53 So I didn't know if this was an option.
16:25:55 I know it's probably a yes or no vote.
16:25:58 In addition, I think there's something in the
16:26:01 regulations that says a certain number of trees must
16:26:08 be planted to replace any grand oak removed, or
16:26:12 payment into a tree fund for placing other trees in
16:26:15 the city.

16:26:17 And it's not very clear about how that's done, or if
16:26:20 the public is given notice that that's done.
16:26:23 I would definitely like that cleared up if possible.
16:26:26 And just as an opinion, I don't know if Mr. Reilly
16:26:31 would be able to answer, but I would be curious to
16:26:33 know if the -- would preclude this tree from living so
16:26:43 many more years.
16:26:44 Could we take it out a few years from now?
16:26:46 I don't know if that was a possibility.
16:26:49 If you could speak to that.
16:26:56 >>> For the last question, I feel this way, that this
16:27:01 municipal employee, I saw a certain level of risk and
16:27:06 I felt of in this case that level was met.
16:27:08 Yes, the tree could stand there for many years.
16:27:12 I don't know that.
16:27:13 However, I have identified precursors to failure.
16:27:18 So my opinion is the tree could fail.
16:27:20 I will say this.
16:27:22 Because of the other canopy surrounding this tree,
16:27:25 that's on this property, that's a good thing for the
16:27:28 tree.
16:27:29 That will help protect the tree.

16:27:32 But I have already identified the precursors to
16:27:35 failure.
16:27:35 I thought they were sufficient.
16:27:37 So I don't -- I'm not confident to be able to keep
16:27:42 that tree there.
16:27:43 And I would feel uncomfortable imposing that on
16:27:46 someone else once I have identified that level.
16:27:49 To his question on whether the trees will finish
16:27:53 callousing over that area, the trees have to have a
16:27:57 solid base to form on.
16:28:03 One that's been decayed away, what they do typically
16:28:07 is they'll start ramp hole concerning where it will
16:28:11 start folding in on itself.
16:28:13 And there's nothing to stop decay.
16:28:15 We have no way of putting a chemical on the tree to
16:28:17 stop decay.
16:28:19 What we do know is some trees are good themselves,
16:28:25 they will chemically change the cell structure to stop
16:28:28 decay.
16:28:29 And live oaks are very good.
16:28:30 Unfortunately, Laurel oaks are very bad.
16:28:33 So once decay starts spreading to Laurel oaks, you are

16:28:36 going to have a hard time.
16:28:38 You can't stop it.
16:28:40 And if you try to do something such as fertilizer, in
16:28:46 essence what you are doing is speeding up that process
16:28:48 and attracting more insects.
16:28:50 So-it's unfortunate, but once this tree starts what we
16:28:53 call subsistence where it's spiraling downwards, it's
16:28:58 very hard to impossible to stop.
16:29:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a question.
16:29:06 There's a picture in there but it's hard to tell of
16:29:08 the whole property, David, the property owner
16:29:10 indicated -- property owner indicated that there's
16:29:13 other trees on their property.
16:29:16 So it's not like this is the last tree.
16:29:20 >>> David Riley: That's correct, it's heavily treed,
16:29:26 which is the one good thing which aids this tree and
16:29:30 will probably help keep it up.
16:29:32 But I can't guarantee that.
16:29:34 Again they work as a unit, this is a well protected
16:29:39 tree, it's not getting gale force winds.
16:29:42 However, over time, that's not going to be enough to
16:29:45 keep the tree up.

16:29:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My question really is a little more
16:29:48 aesthetic.
16:29:49 Aesthetically or perhaps -- in terms of the birds, if
16:29:54 this tree is taken out, and I guess there's a
16:29:56 nonprotected camphor that might be going, too, what's
16:30:04 it going to leave behind aesthetically for the
16:30:07 neighborhood?
16:30:07 >>> Well, they have had quite a few trees on the
16:30:09 Jamaica side and they actually had two other trees on
16:30:12 the back, to the west of these.
16:30:17 So I don't want to say it's minimal.
16:30:19 I don't want to trivialize the removal of this tree.
16:30:22 But I do believe they have sufficient canopy on the
16:30:27 rest of their property to help mitigate this tree
16:30:32 removal.
16:30:33 I will address one issue.
16:30:34 He is correct, we do require four 2-inch trees as
16:30:38 replacements.
16:30:40 In this particular case they will probably not go back
16:30:43 on-site because of the existing canopy.
16:30:45 So that money would go into the tree trust fund.
16:30:51 >> Dave, was there a sign originally posted by these

16:30:55 folks consistent with the --
16:30:59 >> David Riley: Yes.
16:31:02 I actually had a hard time because the address is on
16:31:06 Bosphorous but the house sits and faces Jamaica.
16:31:09 So when we issued them their sign, they put in the
16:31:13 front of their house, which was the Jamaica side.
16:31:15 Now, the neighbors called and said, well, it's kind of
16:31:18 back off the fence, we can't see it clearly, it should
16:31:21 be on Bosphorous.
16:31:23 We called the homeowner.
16:31:25 He immediately switched it over to the other side, put
16:31:28 it on the fence right behind the sidewalk.
16:31:30 As far as we are concerned that was a non-issue, and
16:31:33 he did do his best to comply.
16:31:40 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm going to move to close the public
16:31:42 hearing.
16:31:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
16:31:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close.
16:31:47 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to move to uphold the
16:31:51 decision of the Parks and Recreation Department, based
16:31:56 on the excellent instruction from our legal counsel.
16:32:02 I'm going to start with the tree hazard evaluation

16:32:06 form.
16:32:10 Even without looking at this, I can't really imagine
16:32:13 how a tree that is possibly causing damage to the
16:32:19 entire sewer system -- and I know we don't -- we
16:32:23 haven't necessarily heard that, but it seems to me
16:32:31 that would be a hazard out of common sense but I am
16:32:35 going to site the recommendation and the rating on the
16:32:37 tree hazard evaluation form from our city arborist.
16:32:44 And I think 10 out of 12 sounds pretty hazardous.
16:32:49 I would also like to site the independent -- the
16:32:53 private opinion of another arborist who seems to be
16:32:56 very qualified.
16:32:57 And then I would like to point out that -- and I don't
16:33:00 even know if we have to do this.
16:33:02 I wasn't clear.
16:33:02 But on the administrative provision, I think that the
16:33:07 appellant has raised a couple of things.
16:33:10 One of them was the wildlife habitat.
16:33:13 And I don't feel like there was competent, substantial
16:33:16 evidence that removal one tree from a very wooded lot
16:33:21 would affect that bird which, by the way, is
16:33:24 beautiful.

16:33:26 So I don't think there's a substantial impact on the
16:33:29 biological or ecological system.
16:33:32 No evidence that it's going to lower the water table.
16:33:36 No evidence on the assimilation of nutrients,
16:33:40 pollutants.
16:33:41 And, number 5, substantially reduce the fair market
16:33:45 value.
16:33:45 That was brought up, too.
16:33:47 And I don't think there was any substantial and
16:33:49 competent evidence showing that removal of one grand
16:33:53 tree on one lot would reduce the property values of
16:33:57 the neighbors, especially considering that this
16:34:03 individual lot, which belongs to this couple actually
16:34:10 has a lot of other trees on it.
16:34:12 So I think that it's very sad to lose what looks like
16:34:17 it was a beautiful tree at one point.
16:34:19 But I also think that even the photographs are pretty
16:34:22 convincing, and Dave's opinion on this.
16:34:26 We do consider him to be very conservative, and our
16:34:32 experience has been that his recommendations are very
16:34:35 good.
16:34:39 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

16:34:40 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
16:34:42 Opposed, Nay.
16:34:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The vote is unanimous then?
16:34:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Saul-Sena.
16:35:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Shelby told us, I asked Mr.
16:35:04 Shelby to investigate the ability to cancel our
16:35:07 evening meeting on April 16th, and he checked with
16:35:10 Cathy Coyle, and she said that we don't have a backlog
16:35:13 of requests.
16:35:15 So that way we will be able to attend the Tampa
16:35:22 designing award.
16:35:23 Remove that evening meeting from our calendar.
16:35:27 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
16:35:27 (Motion carried).
16:35:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We all received a memo from Cindy
16:35:36 Miller about the tree permit fees.
16:35:39 I have gotten correspondence.
16:35:40 I'm sure you all have, too.
16:35:41 It's going to come back the first meeting in February
16:35:44 for her to have another recommendation on the tree
16:35:46 permit fees.
16:35:47 And I'm glad that she's looking at it.

16:35:49 And I'm very concerned.
16:35:52 And I look forward to her having a very low estimate.
16:35:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I had one thing to follow up on.
16:35:59 Earlier I had made a motion to ask Thom Snelling to
16:36:02 report on what we are doing.
16:36:03 And Sandy had looked up and discovered that he had
16:36:08 made a report in December, and talked to Thom, and he
16:36:12 asked that we schedule the report.
16:36:15 He's happy to give it.
16:36:17 But he would like to schedule that for February
16:36:19 19th.
16:36:20 So I would like to amend my motion for him to look at
16:36:25 February 19th to provide the information.
16:36:27 I asked for it earlier, and hopefully, Sandy, can you
16:36:30 get that from my earlier motion?
16:36:34 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
16:36:35 All in favor say Aye.
16:36:37 Opposed, Nay.
16:36:38 Anything else?
16:36:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to receive and file.
16:36:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Second?
16:36:47 >> Second.

16:36:47 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of that motion, say Aye.
16:36:50 Opposed, Nay.
16:36:52 Mrs. Saul-Sena.
16:36:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I received a suggestion by the way
16:36:56 of creating more investment in Tampa through giving
16:36:58 people incentives to invest in historic properties.
16:37:01 I referred to that earlier today.
16:37:02 I am just going to share this with everybody.
16:37:04 And I personally as an individual asked representative
16:37:11 castor to include this in the incentive package but
16:37:14 look at doing it collectively next week.
16:37:16 It's a great idea.
16:37:17 It doesn't cost much, encourages private investment
16:37:22 for people to save beautiful houses.
16:37:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else come before council?
16:37:27 We stand adjourned.
16:37:28 Thank you.

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