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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, January 29, 2008
1:30 p.m. special discussion meeting

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13:34:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is a special discussion
13:34:51 meeting about Kiley Garden.
13:34:53 And if other people join us, we have seats for them
13:34:56 and we can expand the circle.
13:34:59 But this is much more collegial, and we can have a
13:35:09 discussion.
13:35:12 And this discussion is extremely give and take.
13:35:14 And we are going to begin by introducing ourselves and
13:35:17 going around the circle and have a presentation by

13:35:19 Karen Palus, and everybody will chime in.
13:35:23 And I'm so appreciative that you're here.
13:35:25 My name is Linda Saul-Sena and I'm a member of Tampa
13:35:27 City Council, and I'm the chair of the Parks,
13:35:29 Recreation and Culture department.
13:35:33 >> My name is Chris villa, native of Tampa.
13:35:37 I'm a practicing architect.
13:35:39 I'm also part of the urban charrette.
13:35:43 >> I'm Carla price with the Parks and Recreation
13:35:45 Department and I'm a landscape architect.
13:35:50 >> I'm Karen Palus, the Parks and Recreation
13:35:51 Department director.
13:35:54 >> Richard, recent USF architect grad and architect
13:36:02 intern 234 Tampa.
13:36:03 >> Jason Watson, chairman of the community advisory
13:36:05 committee for the downtown CRA.
13:36:10 >> Christine Burdick with the Tampa downtown
13:36:15 partnership.
13:36:17 >> Architect.
13:36:20 >> Marty, you have to come down and sit with us.
13:36:25 >> I'll join you in just a minute.
13:36:28 I'm Martin Shelby, City Council attorney.

13:36:31 >> Let's start with Karen.
13:36:32 >>KAREN PALUS: Good afternoon again.
13:36:34 This discussion came out of council a few weeks ago as
13:36:38 far as talking about the plans for Kiley and where do
13:36:43 we go from here?
13:36:44 And essentially to do a little recap of how we got to
13:36:47 here, and some of the discussions since that council
13:36:51 meeting, which is which warranted a special workshop
13:36:56 today.
13:36:57 For those of you that heir familiar with the Kiley
13:37:01 plan was to reduce significantly with the new art
13:37:04 museum that was planned.
13:37:05 There was a rendition of the area across the front.
13:37:13 Previous to about the 2003, that was the plan of that
13:37:18 area and the conditions in that area.
13:37:20 Since 2003 that changed dramatically.
13:37:22 As you know, the New Tampa Museum of Art is on the
13:37:25 other side, adjacent to the Poe garage, the Glazer
13:37:29 family children's museum is under construction, the
13:37:31 new Curtis Hixon waterfront park is under
13:37:33 construction, and Kiley Gardens is under construction.
13:37:37 One of the areas and the things in the administration

13:37:40 have determined that would be appropriate for Kiley
13:37:42 unusually to get the things that need to be done
13:37:44 within the facility handled, we put together a plan
13:37:49 and went through restoration, actually conducted a
13:37:52 study as well that was done in September 2007 for the
13:38:00 NationsBank plaza, of course the banks changed names
13:38:06 several times over, but we finally got the Kiley
13:38:08 Gardens.
13:38:10 So that was prepared and has very extensive
13:38:16 information, existing conditions, previous conditions,
13:38:19 current conditions, and such, and some of the ideas
13:38:22 for how the preservation or restoration and such could
13:38:25 occur to the facility.
13:38:27 One of the key parts that we were obligated as a city
13:38:30 to deal with was that drainage issues and such within
13:38:34 the parking garage, and so the plan here was to renew
13:38:39 all of the elements from Kiley.
13:38:42 We have meticulously worked with construction firm to
13:38:46 make sure that every item that was available for
13:38:49 preservation and such, they have been numbered, and
13:38:53 have been categorized as to what locations they came
13:38:56 from.

13:38:56 The plan dealt with a waterproofing system, an
13:39:03 innovation out there.
13:39:05 I know councilman Saul-Sena, Roger has been out there
13:39:10 as well, really got to see how the inner workings of
13:39:13 the new cells were going in and such, and really the
13:39:16 construction crew has done a fabulous job, looked
13:39:20 brand knew when they had gotten everything out,
13:39:22 cleaned everything up and had done the proper
13:39:24 treatment.
13:39:25 Right now what's occurring there is all the
13:39:27 waterproofing has been done, all the repairs and the
13:39:30 structures have been completed, and they are in the
13:39:33 process of installing the engineered, when special,
13:39:42 the type of soil for the area.
13:39:45 So we are excited to see that.
13:39:47 We were there this week and had a chance to see all of
13:39:50 that going in.
13:39:51 So the final part that will occur for phase one of the
13:39:56 plan is to replace all of the pieces that are
13:40:00 available that we have, and what they did is they
13:40:03 followed the plan excessively to rework in the
13:40:06 elements we have enough of, within the pavers, so

13:40:11 damage due to changes in the turf and such up there
13:40:17 with tree, and the leaks, the amount of water and
13:40:24 damage.
13:40:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What happened to the water?
13:40:29 >>KAREN PALUS: Well, it was an interesting find and
13:40:31 something we would have never known until we got a
13:40:34 chance to get into the actual cell structure, is the
13:40:37 pump systems that were originally designed to pump
13:40:39 water out of the garage and out to other areas was
13:40:43 actually pumping, we found out, up onto the roof,
13:40:46 which really helped to exacerbate the issues -- to
13:40:53 exacerbate.
13:40:56 The issues that were occurring up there were the
13:40:59 changes in the turf and the pavers and such.
13:41:01 But the stabilization, that was a big issue and was a
13:41:05 major concern for us as an organization, that happened
13:41:11 previously on the site.
13:41:19 So the great thing about having a super contractor,
13:41:21 they found all of that, they figured it all out, they
13:41:24 repaired, replaced, and corrected all of those issues
13:41:28 to the point that actual system that will be placed
13:41:32 back in, the pavers that will go back in, he has

13:41:35 assured us that in the future at some point if we
13:41:40 choose as an organization to move forward, they could
13:41:45 be reestablished and water could flow, which is
13:41:48 wonderful news.
13:41:49 So as far as restoration of the site, it's not part of
13:41:51 the first phase.
13:41:52 It's not something we are funded to do.
13:41:54 But they have assured me based on what they have done
13:41:58 out there that those can be reestablished, that that's
13:42:00 a real positive.
13:42:02 The other things that are occurring on the site as far
13:42:05 as replacement of pavers, and you will see the design
13:42:08 here.
13:42:10 There were some modifications, because we obviously
13:42:12 don't have to complete as many of the grid areas, and
13:42:18 you can jump in here if I go off on a tangent or if I
13:42:21 miss a piece, but you will see we tried to replace
13:42:23 everything within the current configuration.
13:42:25 There are some areas that we are not able to replace
13:42:28 fully yet but have the ability to replace if and when
13:42:31 we chose to.
13:42:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So we have original models.

13:42:40 >>KAREN PALUS: Yes.
13:42:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And everything is being, you know,
13:42:44 structured, so if we have the money to recast we could
13:42:53 fully put back all of it.
13:42:54 It's just a matter of money.
13:42:56 But it's not precluded.
13:43:00 With the water thing.
13:43:04 >>KAREN PALUS: The pieces that we have will be placed
13:43:07 back in.
13:43:09 >> Is there enough soil, subsoil area in order for
13:43:21 restoration?
13:43:23 >>> The replacement.
13:43:27 Yes, everything that has been done does not preclude
13:43:29 us from putting trees back at a later date.
13:43:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We had a pre-meeting about this on
13:43:33 Monday, because -- sorry.
13:43:35 This is very give and take-y.
13:43:38 Roger Bumka and -- then Roger and I met with Karen,
13:43:48 and Roger, so I just don't get it.
13:43:51 It looks like 16 inches to me.
13:43:58 >> So Carla, afterwards, Roger and I --
13:44:11 >> The landscape architect of record, been very

13:44:19 confrontational with him.
13:44:27 To do this 30 and 32 inches per tree.
13:44:31 Except -- and this may have been where he was
13:44:33 looking -- is the soil right here, and one of the
13:44:37 other areas here, are only about 12 inches.
13:44:43 And they had to do that just because the drainage
13:44:47 system had to work, they had to fill those up.
13:44:49 And the architect said you probably shouldn't have had
13:44:53 trees the to be there to begin with because some of
13:44:55 the other drainage system going on.
13:44:57 So, yes, they made sure that everywhere trees were
13:45:01 before, that trees could go back in.
13:45:06 >> And two other things.
13:45:07 One is that we got a 30-year warranty on that, on the
13:45:12 line, so we shouldn't have leak problems for 30 years
13:45:18 which is fabulous.
13:45:19 And Roger, you sit here.
13:45:22 And the other thing that we are concerned about, that
13:45:26 I have been concerned about, is the 30-year lease.
13:45:31 There is concern that every tree would have to be in
13:45:36 some kind of some of box, and according to the fellow
13:45:44 who said because -- we have to put in proper

13:45:49 irrigation, right?
13:45:52 >>> And that's another item as well.
13:45:55 All of the irrigation for the turf is going in and we
13:45:57 are starting out for potential tree placement in the
13:46:00 future, when we are able to do that.
13:46:04 All of the structure for the lighting is going in.
13:46:07 It will be set up for reclaimed water, and where you
13:46:11 are putting in the turf.
13:46:12 And so the golf course kind of turf to it, and well
13:46:23 maintained.
13:46:23 One of the things that's happening is we finish up
13:46:26 with this contract.
13:46:27 Oh, I want to mention, too, the lighting will be
13:46:32 restored on that as well, as well as the back wall and
13:46:35 the top planter, and Carla is working with them now on
13:46:39 the ground cover that would potentially go in the top
13:46:41 planter.
13:46:43 It originally was slated for turf.
13:46:45 But she's going to place the proper ground cover up in
13:46:53 that area.
13:46:54 >> What's the lighting plan?
13:46:55 >> The lighting plan is they will be placing back at

13:46:59 the existing pieces that we have, that are in the
13:47:01 condition to be replaced.
13:47:03 And then we have subs for the other areas.
13:47:08 >> Basically what was there before.
13:47:16 >> If there were some before, they will be there.
13:47:21 >> And we to have initial conduit or the ability to
13:47:24 run through for any additional audio.
13:47:28 >> Oh, good, the amphitheater?
13:47:30 >> Yes.
13:47:31 Actually for the park.
13:47:32 So if you had a wedding or something, and you wanted
13:47:35 to be able to have that feature, element.
13:47:39 So essentially you will see everything in the
13:47:41 condition that we have in the highest level condition
13:47:46 being replaced.
13:47:47 Everything at the ground level.
13:47:48 So we are doing everything we had committed to, and in
13:47:54 full completion of that and actually had things we
13:47:56 weren't sure we could have committed to, like the
13:47:58 rentals and things to be restored at a much later
13:48:01 date, with funding -- when funding is available, but
13:48:04 the fact that those can actually work again I think is

13:48:08 a very significant accomplishment.
13:48:10 >>
13:48:15 Right now they will be reestablished but they won't
13:48:17 have water or access to that but knowing they can be
13:48:20 restored at some point in time.
13:48:26 As we finish up, we are looking towards the end of May
13:48:29 as a completion of everything that they are supposed
13:48:32 to be doing up there initially.
13:48:34 They will be monitoring from May to August under the
13:48:39 Skanska contract to monitor the maintenance level and
13:48:42 how the funnelling occurs so they can keep an eye on
13:48:45 that and make sure that all the papers are
13:48:49 appropriately handled to manage any changes in the
13:48:51 areas that we need to.
13:48:52 So it will be under their direction until August.
13:48:57 Then August we take it over for operations and
13:48:59 maintenance and such.
13:49:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Speaking of maintenance, the other
13:49:03 day when we talked, we chatted about one of the
13:49:06 issues, initially the trees, there were like
13:49:12 430-something trees and a lot of trimming and we were
13:49:16 just brainstorming on what maintenance.

13:49:22 My intention I think is essentially restore Kiley
13:49:24 Gardens to the glory of the tree, and the components
13:49:32 of that, and then go and talk to maintenance, who
13:49:36 would do the maintenance?
13:49:38 Can we talk about that briefly?
13:49:40 >>KAREN PALUS: To share a little bit of information.
13:49:42 I pulled all of the documents from the history on the
13:49:48 maintenance portion, what those costs were.
13:49:53 The previous maintenance agreements were from 1998 to
13:49:59 about 1997, $127,000 just for your grounds
13:50:04 maintenance.
13:50:05 >> A year?
13:50:05 >> Yes, a year.
13:50:06 $120,000 a year for the maintenance of that facility,
13:50:10 which is through contract at the time when the -- the
13:50:17 120,000.
13:50:17 >> We have several landscape professionals.
13:50:23 Maybe we can do a little reality check.
13:50:27 >>KAREN PALUS: I'm telling you that's what we pay.
13:50:29 Now we agree that it's a little high.
13:50:31 But that's what we were paying at that time.
13:50:33 In 1997 it went to $150,000.

13:50:37 >> Nobody is questioning your figures.
13:50:40 But we are saying we can look at this.
13:50:43 >> Yes.
13:50:46 Understand what the city's maintenance dollars were at
13:50:48 that time.
13:50:49 Our contribution for that first round was $60,000 to
13:50:53 the organization.
13:50:55 And colonnade building, and the contractor, and we
13:51:00 paid half of his costs.
13:51:01 We also pay the water and electric as well, our
13:51:04 portion of it, because the original design, put in one
13:51:11 main meter, and so they were building the submeter for
13:51:14 portions of the park that we have allocated there.
13:51:17 We also paid an additional 15,000 plus or minus in
13:51:21 repairs.
13:51:24 It was a significant cost overall for the city.
13:51:26 And I think that's what we have to look at, how do we
13:51:30 do it?
13:51:30 Actually in 2003, October of 2003 is when we took over
13:51:35 the overall maintenance, and based on previous e-mails
13:51:39 and communications with the new museum, beginning the
13:51:44 next year, and conversations.

13:51:50 >> Just to give you an idea of the context of why the
13:51:54 maintenance and why it's so important in the
13:51:56 conversation we have with Roger in putting together
13:51:58 the right plan over the next couple of years, how to
13:52:01 get the trees back, where it's appropriate, what is
13:52:05 appropriate, species, all of those elements, and make
13:52:09 sure that the maintenance plan can ab achieved and
13:52:12 accomplished, because what I shared with Councilwoman
13:52:17 Saul-Sena and Roger the other day, this is our front
13:52:20 door, and it's our Central Park, and it really needs
13:52:23 to be a showcase and needs to be the highest level of
13:52:27 maintenance and standard that we have within our
13:52:29 system.
13:52:30 And so that's the level we want to see achieved there,
13:52:33 and we'll be able to maintain that.
13:52:36 >> The friends of Kiley Gardens fully realize that a
13:52:41 park like this is an expensive undertaking, and upkeep
13:52:45 proposition.
13:52:47 My neighborhood in Hyde Park, Historic Hyde Park
13:52:50 neighborhood association, currently is involved with,
13:52:56 in the process, or in one case actually helping
13:53:00 support the maintenance, financially support the

13:53:04 maintenance of one park and certainly two parks, two
13:53:07 public parks in the neighborhood.
13:53:11 It's totally understandable that something like that
13:53:13 will have to be done for this park.
13:53:16 We can't let or expect the city, especially in these
13:53:20 times, to foot the bill on something like this.
13:53:24 An analogous park to Kiley garden, the museum --
13:53:31 Milwaukee museum of park has a seasonal, yearly and
13:53:34 monthly maintenance schedule.
13:53:36 In other words, certain things are done on a calendar.
13:53:39 That is what something like this requires.
13:53:43 So as I say again, it's going to take the whole
13:53:46 community.
13:53:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have to say I'm really pleased
13:53:57 that the city has followed through on its commitment
13:54:01 to not do anything to preclude the eventual
13:54:08 realization of Kiley back to its original force.
13:54:12 I think it's one of our proudest moments as a city to
13:54:15 have a design by an internationally recognized artist
13:54:19 of this caliber.
13:54:20 My eagerness is to see the realization sooner rather
13:54:24 than later, but with the caveat as Roger pointed out

13:54:27 the other day that we do things properly, that we not
13:54:30 do anything that isn't the right quality, that isn't
13:54:34 maintainable in the right way.
13:54:36 I think that watching this beautiful garden in ruins
13:54:40 is pretty heart breaking, watching it be disassembled
13:54:43 was even more heart breaking and we have the
13:54:45 opportunity now for this board.
13:54:50 One of the reasons that I asked Chip Fletcher here,
13:54:52 our city attorney, was to see what the rules are that
13:54:56 govern the spending of our tree money.
13:54:58 When people want to develop the site and they can't
13:55:00 put all the trees on-site, they pay into a tree trust
13:55:04 fund.
13:55:04 And he and I discussed this the other day.
13:55:07 Chip, if you wouldn't mind.
13:55:09 I would like everybody in the perimeter to move your
13:55:12 chair out just a little bit.
13:55:13 And I would like you all to pull your chairs in so we
13:55:16 can all be on the same plane.
13:55:19 Just scoot that one in.
13:55:36 >>> I'm actually the intern for Councilwoman Mary
13:55:41 Mulhern.

13:55:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Were you able to hear my question?
13:55:46 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Why don't you repeat it so I'm
13:55:48 sure?
13:55:49 >> What are the rules for our tree trust fund?
13:55:51 I don't know what level of rules they are.
13:55:54 Are they custom, ordinance, policy, or what?
13:55:58 Where do they come from?
13:56:00 How do we change them?
13:56:03 >> Well, basically, there is a code provision that
13:56:09 does set out some parameters and how the funds are
13:56:12 used.
13:56:15 It looks like most recently the council made a policy
13:56:18 decision to include in that studies, to specifically
13:56:21 include the use of the moneys for the canopy study.
13:56:24 >> Which is great.
13:56:25 >> So, yes, that would be -- that's kind of the policy
13:56:31 directive.
13:56:31 Then within that the administration will decide how to
13:56:33 prioritize these funds within those policy statements.
13:56:36 >> So this is my question.
13:56:38 If we have -- if we had the foundation of the garden,
13:56:44 and let's say for the sake of conversation that

13:56:47 these -- Karen's estimate is more of a half million
13:56:52 dollars to replace the trees in the garden, that would
13:56:55 include the purchase of the plant material, the
13:56:58 creation of the watering, irrigation, the proper
13:57:06 irrigation system, and then the labor to install the
13:57:09 trees.
13:57:10 So more or less a half million dollars.
13:57:12 And in our tree trust fund, we have a million dollars.
13:57:15 And I guess the traditional way we dealt with the
13:57:18 trust fund was to spend the interest.
13:57:23 And I guess that was done by the administration.
13:57:28 I'm just guessing.
13:57:29 >>> The tree trust fund was established, the goal was
13:57:36 to go to about a million dollars, and then utilize the
13:57:41 interest towards the tree program.
13:57:44 So when we do a thousand tree programs, about $140,000
13:57:50 or so, we work with the neighborhood to plant trees in
13:57:55 the appropriate street areas such as parks.
13:57:59 That's been the tradition.
13:58:00 However, we have had funds that exceed that million
13:58:02 dollar mark and budget and utilize them for additional
13:58:07 services where trees have been part of projects,

13:58:10 riverside gardens, an example, Curtis Hixon park will
13:58:14 be an example of that, we have funds allocated, for
13:58:18 the trees and the tree extension that we talked about
13:58:21 that.
13:58:22 So again it's been kind of an administrative thing
13:58:24 that we have kind of kept it up.
13:58:28 They did have enough there to generate revenue and
13:58:31 interest so you have the ability to continue that
13:58:33 community tree program.
13:58:39 >> My question would be, I'm really eager to figure
13:58:41 out where to get the money for trees.
13:58:43 I looked at potentially future CRA budget, or because
13:58:49 we spend money in downtown, or the tree trust fund.
13:58:55 And my first question is, is this in a quadrant where
13:59:00 you have to spend -- could we spend that fund money on
13:59:08 this?
13:59:08 >> That fund is the landscape in lieu, and, yes, you
13:59:13 could.
13:59:16 Initially permit this round, finish up some things at
13:59:20 Curtis Hixon waterfront park as far as meeting the
13:59:23 goals.
13:59:23 But the future dollars as they come in, need to have

13:59:26 those.
13:59:28 We do have a five-year window.
13:59:34 I shared with you the Bayshore development.
13:59:37 The improvements that you see out there, the
13:59:41 landscaping.
13:59:41 >> It seems to me just logically we would save money.
13:59:49 If we were to spend the money now, rather than in the
13:59:52 future, we would put in the proper irrigation for the
13:59:56 trees, and I assume there would be some savings in
14:00:06 that way because we wouldn't be setting up grass --
14:00:10 drip irrigation, and putting down the tree irrigation,
14:00:13 similarly we wouldn't be putting down the sod.
14:00:16 Because it seems like for our organization drive to
14:00:22 Skanska, let's go ahead and put down the trees, you
14:00:25 have identified the funding source, it seems there
14:00:27 would be some economy there perhaps, I don't know.
14:00:32 >> 100,000 or something.
14:00:34 So we haven't yet figured out what trees.
14:00:36 But I just wonder if there's something that if we
14:00:39 could somehow find a source somewhere in the
14:00:44 community, the community foundation to secure the
14:00:47 loan.

14:00:47 I don't know.
14:00:50 This is an initial conversation with the community
14:00:52 about this.
14:00:56 Do you have any idea what those savings would be?
14:01:02 >>KAREN PALUS: Based on what we put into the original
14:01:04 plan, and part of that $4.2 million that's been
14:01:07 expended there on Kiley, the minimal cost is probably
14:01:11 your savings would be in your mobilization.
14:01:14 Other than that, the costs are minimal.
14:01:17 You have to have sod throughout the current design, if
14:01:20 we were to place trees at some time in the future.
14:01:24 So that sod needs to be there any way.
14:01:26 One of the benefits of what we have now too is the
14:01:30 ability to really look at the areas and stabilize and
14:01:36 give that time to let everything settle in, and then
14:01:39 as you work for that plan that Roger had talked about
14:01:41 of putting together, you know, what types of trees,
14:01:45 what types of species, be able to move forward
14:01:48 systematically through the plan, instead of trying to
14:01:51 rush in and replace something that may be a challenge
14:01:54 for us in the future.
14:01:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think that it's definitely going

14:01:59 to be better than nothing, and it's going to be better
14:02:01 something we can move forward with in the future.
14:02:03 I must say in August I think we are going to have an
14:02:06 egg frying contest because it going to be really hot
14:02:08 with no trees.
14:02:09 It's going to be a place that is really not usable
14:02:13 when it's hot, because we need some kind of canopy.
14:02:21 If we could identify the funding sources for the
14:02:23 future, and know two years road we are going to get a
14:02:27 canopy, and that would be a good direction to be
14:02:30 moving in.
14:02:31 What I would like to do is hear from other people
14:02:33 about -- and the other thing is, frankly, we have not
14:02:38 been able to apply for federal grant funding because
14:02:42 the administration has been unwilling to find papers
14:02:46 saying this is going to be a historic garden and
14:02:50 botanical garden.
14:02:55 >> I am going to hand these to you.
14:02:57 These are petitions from greener -- people from
14:03:00 downtown Tampa, to designate, and that can go to her.
14:03:08 >> Designating Kiley Gardens?
14:03:11 >> Yes, as a landmark.

14:03:13 And what is hoped would W that would increase the
14:03:15 ability for future aid, so if the water features --
14:03:22 there would be some money for that.
14:03:23 There's a significant amount of water features in this
14:03:25 park.
14:03:26 There's actually a canal.
14:03:28 I passed out a package showing that.
14:03:30 Showing an overhead canal carrying some water.
14:03:32 There's also a lot of extensive light.
14:03:35 The reason behind that package -- and I'm hoping it
14:03:38 goes along with your plan -- is just to educate the
14:03:41 city as to what type used to exist there.
14:03:47 These pictures were taken, Harry Wilson shot the park,
14:03:53 and also the media that we use to educate the public.
14:03:58 Like the building itself, basically a system to fix
14:04:07 something kind of large, bring it down to human scale.
14:04:11 This park actually is comprised of a lot of
14:04:17 supplemental parks.
14:04:18 There's a museum park inside Kiley.
14:04:20 There's a Curtis Hixon park which is gone
14:04:23 unfortunately.
14:04:24 But there's a lot of different types of species.

14:04:26 And Kiley can use that to add a lot of colors and
14:04:32 changes through the season.
14:04:33 And again kind of bring the scale down on such a large
14:04:36 park.
14:04:37 So I hand this off to you guys because I want to get
14:04:43 your gears moving as to what type of plan that I would
14:04:48 hope to see and I'm sure Roger would hope to see and
14:04:50 other people who would like to see Kiley go back to
14:04:53 its beginning.
14:04:53 This is not an intimidating package.
14:04:57 I realize that there's money involved.
14:04:59 But again it's just a guide to kind of shop what's
14:05:02 existing.
14:05:03 On the last page of that packet, there is an index
14:05:06 listing the types of species of plants that were used
14:05:09 in each part of Kiley Gardens, so what you can do is
14:05:13 you can reference to that to where I wrote down on the
14:05:17 site plan, now, the museum side, the Curtis Hixon
14:05:20 side, you can kind of make reference to the types of
14:05:22 species.
14:05:23 I don't know if these species will work.
14:05:26 But I'm sure there could be some good alternatives.

14:05:30 And I'm also sure that, you know, there could be a
14:05:32 really good balance.
14:05:33 And with that said, I think it would also encourage
14:05:37 the process of this park to get into landmark status a
14:05:40 lot faster, because I think the public image of having
14:05:44 Kiley Gardens to sit for a year or two with no trees
14:05:47 is probably going to be pretty low, so we probably
14:05:51 need to accelerate and try to put some shading there.
14:05:55 The reason it is a park, is because it has to have
14:05:58 people in there, it has to have function, and I think
14:06:00 it is so crucial to have things accelerate, because
14:06:05 it's also part of riverwalk.
14:06:07 So I think it will complete the vision, and I think it
14:06:11 will complete the vision of the greater downtown area.
14:06:17 So thank you.
14:06:20 >>> I would just like to mention for a moment that no
14:06:24 mayor, not the current mayor or any future mayor, can
14:06:26 designate this as a historic landmark.
14:06:29 What the mayor does, and what is required of the mayor
14:06:34 as the representative as the community property
14:06:38 holder, is get permission for this to be reviewed by
14:06:42 the state historic commission.

14:06:44 So it's the permission to have it reviewed by the
14:06:48 historic commission.
14:06:51 The commission that a mayor can support the
14:06:58 nomination, and the commission can turn it down.
14:07:00 But you can't get the commission to review it without
14:07:02 the property owners and the mayor is then the
14:07:06 representative of the community, the community owning
14:07:09 the park.
14:07:13 The mayor then has to give consent to the review of
14:07:17 the property.
14:07:22 And it's a lengthy process as well.
14:07:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Does the review require the city to
14:07:28 restore it to its entirety?
14:07:31 I mean, this is a question.
14:07:35 Is the city then on the hook for restoration?
14:07:39 Or could we have a plan, like a 20-year plan to move
14:07:43 in that direction?
14:07:44 >>> Exactly.
14:07:45 But as I mentioned to you the other day, you can't
14:07:48 take a famous painting, ROSCOE, repaint it and say
14:07:56 this is our interpretation of this great painter.
14:08:00 So the same thing with the garden here.

14:08:02 A plan over years certainly can be supported when
14:08:06 indeed a portion of it is properly, as an example,
14:08:10 properly restored.
14:08:12 That would only give confidence to a review
14:08:20 commission?
14:08:21 >> Because the reflection pools will be by the --
14:08:27 >>> I know that, but in my heart of hearts, I think
14:08:30 some future generation, I see them there.
14:08:33 So it's just building material.
14:08:36 And the beautiful thing about Kiley garden is really
14:08:41 there is nothing sacred about it.
14:08:45 One palm tree is as good as another palm tree provided
14:08:50 it is the same size and the same stature.
14:08:54 It is the design itself.
14:08:57 It is the design.
14:08:59 So you could take concrete and replace it with new
14:09:02 concrete.
14:09:03 You take water and replace it with new water and
14:09:06 plants and grass and everything is replaceable.
14:09:13 Eventually we can work to the design as Kiley saw it,
14:09:16 and if that were a goal, and again as I said, if we
14:09:22 were to restore a portion of it to show our good

14:09:26 intention and good will, I don't think -- let me put
14:09:31 it in positive terms -- I think we would have support,
14:09:35 certainly of the Florida historic commission, and
14:09:38 landscape architecture across the nation, and
14:09:41 internationally as well.
14:09:49 >>> Drawbacks whatever that step is, is part of that
14:09:58 application.
14:09:59 >> Mayor Pam told us at a meeting several years ago
14:10:02 that she just felt, at the time, when the museum was
14:10:10 on the globe, that it restricted the city's options.
14:10:13 I believe those were her words, had restricted
14:10:16 options.
14:10:17 But many of those questions have now settled, the
14:10:24 museum has a home, the children's museum has a site.
14:10:27 So it could be that things have -- she might even
14:10:37 reconsider.
14:10:38 And certainly with new administration coming in, that
14:10:43 will be a question for them.
14:10:46 >>> I have a quick question.
14:10:48 Just really quickly.
14:10:49 I'm not sure if the process of rebuild is being
14:10:53 married.

14:10:54 Is that being married improperly?
14:10:56 If it is, maybe it might help to look at a recent
14:10:58 example of a landscape park that has been restored,
14:11:03 and eligible for landmark status.
14:11:09 And do that right now.
14:11:11 I know that you still have some itemized and
14:11:15 categorized that we might need a booklet and have that
14:11:20 process --
14:11:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have that.
14:11:24 >>> Because I haven't seen that.
14:11:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I haven't seen it either.
14:11:32 Is it online or could we get copies?
14:11:35 >>> I just think it might help.
14:11:44 (overlapping conversations)
14:11:46 >> Let me close out one more positive thought, and
14:11:51 that is the Kiley design for the Air Force academy
14:11:58 garden was totally destroyed, and it now has been
14:12:01 totally restored.
14:12:02 >> Only because they had the military budget.
14:12:08 [ Laughter ]
14:12:13 >> Maybe Karen.
14:12:14 Maybe Carla.

14:12:17 >> Question.
14:12:19 Is the plaza within the building's jurisdiction, that
14:12:23 is not Kiley Park, would it be considered a valet
14:12:28 parking area?
14:12:29 >>> Yes.
14:12:30 >> So that's a building that's not --
14:12:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The city doesn't own it.
14:12:46 >>> They have control.
14:12:48 I would have to check really on the ownership.
14:12:52 They have control over that right now.
14:12:53 >> If there's different agreements, floor by floor.
14:13:06 Is the Kiley design portion of land to be considered
14:13:12 part of the Curtis Hixon park?
14:13:14 Or will it be completely a separate park?
14:13:17 >>> No.
14:13:19 It all at their pace now.
14:13:27 It's kind of a vision when we sat down with the design
14:13:33 team and the mayor, and Christine, if you want to get
14:13:39 out there.
14:13:41 >> I watch it every day.
14:13:48 Will it be programmed?
14:13:49 And will it be a single maintenance plan and

14:13:54 programming plan, perhaps in different parks, which
14:13:57 I'm sure the park is going to be?
14:13:59 >> It's going to be managed in the same way.
14:14:02 It will actually get the program in August, part of
14:14:09 that will go through, and then the contract as well.
14:14:16 >> Just a design question.
14:14:18 How is that front, the elevation?
14:14:26 How is that going to be treated?
14:14:39 >> So there would be a --
14:14:44 >> There will be a handrail along there.
14:14:51 (overlapping conversations)
14:14:54 >> Could you use public art money
14:15:13 >> What's happening on this side?
14:15:16 >> That's what we were just talking about.
14:15:18 It dropped.
14:15:20 >> There's a lane.
14:15:21 A permanent lane.
14:15:21 >> Okay.
14:15:28 >> Like the park in here.
14:15:30 >> Yes, I understand.
14:15:36 >> the view out over the park, they will be able to
14:15:45 look across at Kiley.

14:15:47 Then you have the connectivity along the riverwalk as
14:15:49 well.
14:15:50 >> Will that be closed?
14:15:56 >>> The ground level -- this is actually like a --
14:16:06 will that be open?
14:16:07 >> It will be for vehicles.
14:16:14 I think it is closed off.
14:16:15 There may be one or two openings.
14:16:35 >> That is actually a fire lane.
14:16:41 >> If T question I was asking and Karen said -- that
14:16:52 was the director of $100,000 a year, you know.
14:17:01 But this is a higher expectation of maintenance.
14:17:07 And I asked originally, right now kind of thinking,
14:17:19 I'm wondering, going into the future, when we look at
14:17:22 places like New York, you know, like Fifth Avenue, the
14:17:26 association -- part of Fifth Avenue.
14:17:30 And I was wondering if there would be any kind of --
14:17:37 interested in funding maintenance levels that would
14:17:41 make it look good.
14:17:46 Have we thought about those?
14:17:48 >> After reviewing the documents, a couple of weeks, I
14:17:57 think there's some opportunity for some dialogue with

14:17:58 the building owners, as well as Christine and I tried
14:18:01 to chat as often as our schedule will allow on
14:18:05 different things.
14:18:06 Available within the downtown area.
14:18:09 Our role right now will be to maintain the facility,
14:18:14 have staff involved in overseeing the operations and
14:18:16 maintenance of that.
14:18:18 It will be part of our current maintenance plans.
14:18:23 But again we won't take that responsibility.
14:18:27 >> We have issues with irrigation, all of that.
14:18:38 There are warrants through Skanska at that time.
14:18:42 And then in the meantime the goal is to work with our
14:18:45 staff and our team and our contractor to make sure we
14:18:48 continue that high level of service and expectation.
14:18:54 >>> Is there anything that can be done, the area on
14:19:02 Ashley street, at least for the short term or
14:19:05 long-term, a valet parking area?
14:19:07 Is there anything that can be done?
14:19:08 Is there any contemplation that would draw
14:19:15 streetwalkers up to the gardens?
14:19:17 I always thought walking along the roadway, you don't
14:19:24 really get a good sense of what's up there, and

14:19:31 working at the building, you know, it doesn't work
14:19:34 that way, and Wimauma just wondering if
14:19:37 refurbishing --
14:19:49 >> It would be up to the building owner which
14:19:51 currently has responsibility to fix up that area.
14:19:54 They could add planting.
14:19:57 Or they could add something.
14:19:59 >> One of the things really quickly, it's very
14:20:02 difficult to -- the first thing is cars.
14:20:08 That's why Roger is saying we hope that there could be
14:20:13 some alternatives.
14:20:15 I think the most important thing is to figure out how
14:20:17 to maybe at the drop-off, and the cars get entirely
14:20:23 out of the way and have more landscape features on
14:20:25 there, whether it be public sculpture.
14:20:27 And just talking something temporarily until a
14:20:31 solution that would help get to landmark status, there
14:20:35 could be money for it.
14:20:40 >>> Real quickly to share with you, that met with our
14:20:48 construction department, is these are like the
14:20:51 bleacher type seating along here, and repair and
14:20:57 maintenance, we are going to look at those areas and

14:20:59 talk with the building owners to see if there's
14:21:01 anything we can do.
14:21:07 Bleacher seating.
14:21:16 Glamorous like target and tar-Jay.
14:21:19 But we know we need to do, there's something that
14:21:22 needs to occur in there. So we are looking beyond
14:21:25 just the one area that we are doing, also doing some
14:21:29 improvements to the back wall along the riverwalk
14:21:32 there, and restoring pavers there, and refurbish as
14:21:42 well.
14:21:43 So we have a good contractor doing some great work.
14:21:52 >> (speaking away from microphone)
14:21:56 >> Back to the question of what would draw people into
14:22:42 the garden.
14:22:44 When Kiley wolf was here to discuss the garden, we had
14:22:53 discussed the possibility of this becoming the space
14:22:55 being used by the Tampa Museum of Art as a sculpture,
14:23:00 outdoor garden, and there's nothing to preclude that.
14:23:02 All of the architects who were originally involved
14:23:06 with the design of the gardens agreed that this lends
14:23:11 itself, and should be used, so not only conservancy,
14:23:21 but when you have different groups using, actually

14:23:23 using it, and you have different groups supporting it,
14:23:27 in a small way, which adds up to a community.
14:23:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm really appreciative of
14:23:36 everyone's time.
14:23:36 And we have been here almost an hour.
14:23:38 And I think this has been extremely productive.
14:23:41 The follow-through things that I would like to see
14:23:43 happen, Karen and Carla said they would be willing to
14:23:49 work with the community to brainstorm the appropriate
14:23:52 kind of plants, trees to put back, and I think that's
14:23:55 a great idea.
14:23:56 What I am going to do -- and I hope everybody wrote
14:23:58 down their e-mail address -- we can use that to call
14:24:01 people together, to look at future plans.
14:24:07 I am going to also ask our legal department to follow
14:24:10 up on what the rules are for designating, you know,
14:24:16 trust fund money for trees, and other funds that we
14:24:21 can use for trees for the future, look at future CRA
14:24:24 budgets, to purchase trees, and I would love to get a
14:24:29 copy of that.
14:24:34 I think maybe what we should do is indicate if we are
14:24:36 interested in having -- if we aren't going to use it,

14:24:42 but if we would us use it, I think we should get a
14:24:45 copy.
14:24:45 Are there any thoughts for follow-up things that you
14:24:49 all would like to see?
14:24:50 >> I have some really fast questions.
14:24:54 Is this park, because it is essentially a green room,
14:25:01 is it built to qualify LEED certification?
14:25:04 If so, could we V get any money for that?
14:25:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Good question.
14:25:12 It is a green roof.
14:25:13 >> So I think maybe if someone could contact the
14:25:16 chapter of LEED and just find out.
14:25:18 And hopefully the requirement won't get in the way and
14:25:23 we can get some harmony and kick yak.
14:25:26 Maybe also some future things like L.E.D. lights and
14:25:30 some nice lighting systems here.
14:25:32 >> The only problem I see with that is your money from
14:25:36 LEED comes to you as a result of not having to pay
14:25:39 taxes.
14:25:42 >> I want to make one comment to everybody as well.
14:25:54 One of the things was -- some of the things we are
14:26:03 working on, and how we are working to kind of leverage

14:26:07 some of our dollars is that you have Malio's
14:26:12 restaurant upstairs, access to food in that corner,
14:26:16 which is doing fabulously well.
14:26:17 We are working towards building the pavilion facility,
14:26:21 and the kiosk facility within Curtis Hixon park.
14:26:27 That will be the building as you come across the
14:26:29 staircase.
14:26:32 The staircase here.
14:26:33 That will be to this end of the park.
14:26:35 And Tampa kiosk is the small building.
14:26:40 The facility require fountains, restrooms, we are
14:26:47 working hard to crunch those numbers and be able to
14:26:50 upon tensionally move forward with the building
14:26:52 structures, so that we really will have a completed
14:26:57 park.
14:26:57 We will still not have the element of the terraced
14:27:01 area and the dog park at the moment.
14:27:04 But as far as being able to provide services within
14:27:06 the facility as far as the restroom element which is a
14:27:11 huge missing piece previously, we are working hard and
14:27:20 trying to have a building that essentially is LEED
14:27:23 satisfied, not certified, but LEED satisfied.

14:27:26 And it should flow very nicely with the other
14:27:29 buildings on the property, as well as the small kiosk
14:27:32 down at the end.
14:27:34 So could you in the future grab a sod at the kiosk
14:27:38 room, and then the fountain and such, walk your way up
14:27:42 the riverwalk and to the garden, have the ability to
14:27:44 grab lunch at Malio's, have the ability to grab lunch
14:27:47 at the cafe area we are trying to include in the
14:27:50 portion of the building.
14:27:51 So all those pieces fall into place, everything the
14:27:55 next couple of months, month and a half or so, will
14:27:58 have some really great elements as we bring all of
14:28:01 those pieces together for the garden as well as a
14:28:04 waterfront park.
14:28:05 And we have got great cultural institutions there,
14:28:07 with the art museum and the children's museum.
14:28:10 It's a good place to be.
14:28:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Anybody else?
14:28:14 I want to thank all of you for participating today.
14:28:18 And I look forward to pushing ahead to get the trees.
14:28:21 And I'm really happy.
14:28:24 Thank you all from parks because you all have given us

14:28:27 the base on which to grow.
14:28:30 Now we just need to get these petitions and hopefully
14:28:34 get that show on the road.
14:28:35 Thank you.
14:28:37 We are adjourned.
14:28:39


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