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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, February 26, 2009
9:00 a.m. workshop

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09:04:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: He has been the chairman of both the
09:04:11 county and the city.
09:04:12 I don't know who that is, Mr. Chairman.
09:04:13 The gentleman's name is the Reverend Scott.
09:04:16 And Reverend Scott has asked me to introduce the
09:04:21 individual that's going to say this prayer this
09:04:24 morning.
09:04:24 And I can choose no one better than the honorable
09:04:27 Reverend Scott.
09:04:29 Thank you, Reverend Scott, for that.
09:04:31 [ Laughter ]
09:04:32 He didn't know that was coming.
09:04:34 So it's here.
09:04:34 There's nothing like a good surprise.
09:04:38 So Reverend Scott, please stand up for the invocation
09:04:41 by Reverend Scott and remain standing for the pledge
09:04:43 of allegiance.
09:04:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We are grateful and thankful for this
09:04:51 beautiful day, what a beautiful day, to allow us to
09:04:54 walk into.
09:04:55 We thank you for your grace and mercy upon us, on our
09:04:58 nation, on our country, upon our city and state.
09:05:02 Today we acknowledge you in all of our ways and give
09:05:07 direction to our path.
09:05:08 We thank you for those who lead in Washington.
09:05:11 Thank you for those who lead in the state and here
09:05:14 locally, we pray now for our City Council that you
09:05:17 give us wisdom and insight and knowledge, to be open,
09:05:21 and mindful in our community, not only for us but we
09:05:25 pray for those who are fighting for democracy around
09:05:29 the world.
09:05:29 Protect them.
09:05:30 Bring them back home safely.
09:05:31 Those who protect us here at home, our policemen and
09:05:37 our National Guard and others.
09:05:40 We thank you now for this day.
09:05:42 Bless us today in the name we pray, and God bless
09:05:45 America.
09:05:46 Amen.
09:05:48 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:05:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Miranda, for that
09:06:09 wonderful introduction.
09:06:11 We will have roll call.
09:06:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:06:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:06:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:06:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:06:20 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:06:25 >>MARY MULHERN:
09:06:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:06:27 At this time the chair will yield to the honorable
09:06:29 Gwen Miller who will present the police Officer of the
09:06:31 Month.
09:06:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, if I could ask the
09:06:39 police and fire representatives to stick around if
09:06:42 they have a few minutes after we are done.
09:06:46 It will be obvious when we get there.
09:06:49 Thank you.
09:06:49 >>GWEN MILLER: It's my honor this morning to introduce
09:06:53 our Officer of the Month.
09:06:54 If you will please come forward.
09:06:55 And our Officer of the Month is detective Brian
09:06:59 Bridgeman.
09:07:00 He has done a lot of great things.
09:07:02 Chief Hogue will introduce him and tell us the great
09:07:05 things he has done.
09:07:08 >> Chief Hogue: Thank you, council, once again for
09:07:10 recognizing our Officer of the Month every month.
09:07:14 And I think you can agree with me about detective
09:07:18 Bridgeman and everything that he has done for the City
09:07:21 of Tampa in a one-month period while he is recognized
09:07:26 as our February 2009 Officer of the Month.
09:07:30 One, as everybody who comes in here as Officer of the
09:07:34 Month, he is has an outstanding work ethic but he is a
09:07:40 tenacious investigator, he is a detective 3 in our

09:07:43 East Tampa area.
09:07:45 That is commanded by major Honeywell who came with us
09:07:48 today, also.
09:07:50 In a one-month period, he started some investigations,
09:07:55 and during the course of his first investigation, he
09:08:00 found a burglar and he took that burglary and he
09:08:03 converted that to three other burglaries, burglars
09:08:07 that were -- two other burglars working with him, and
09:08:11 through a very long and complex investigation, ended
09:08:15 up arresting those three career criminals, and cleared
09:08:24 60 burglaries that those three had committed, some in
09:08:27 East Tampa but throughout most of the city.
09:08:30 Then he got another case that month on a stolen
09:08:32 vehicle.
09:08:35 And because when he arrests people he doesn't just
09:08:37 look for the one crime he happens to be investigating.
09:08:39 He looks for other crimes that they might have been
09:08:41 involved in.
09:08:42 He of course does a lot of burglary work.
09:08:44 So he knew that this pattern, this auto thief that he
09:08:49 caught, had a pattern of burglaries, and he knew he
09:08:52 had those similar patterns going on throughout the

09:08:54 city, so he looked at some of those patterns, and took
09:08:57 those cases, kind of cold, just took them to him and
09:09:00 said, hey, you know, we have all these burglaries that
09:09:03 are committed and they sure look like you and through
09:09:07 excellent interview tech folks got that individual to
09:09:09 confess to 55 more burglaries that he had committed.
09:09:13 So that wasn't all he did that month.
09:09:17 And then he cleared five auto burglaries where cars
09:09:23 had been broken into.
09:09:24 So in a one-month period detective bridgeman cleared
09:09:28 120 cases.
09:09:29 And arrested the people that were involved in those
09:09:33 cases.
09:09:34 Now, the beauty of that is that have you ever been the
09:09:38 victim of a burglary or a crime like that, you always
09:09:41 want some closure.
09:09:43 It just happens, and lots of times he would don't
09:09:46 solve some cases and people just never know and it's
09:09:48 always on their mind.
09:09:49 So it's a good thing to bring closure to people when
09:09:52 they have been the victim of a crime, and there's 120
09:09:56 citizens in the City of Tampa today that know that

09:10:00 detective bridgeman is on the job for them, and those
09:10:02 why we have selected him as Officer of the Month for
09:10:05 February.
09:10:05 [ Applause ]
09:10:15 >>GWEN MILLER: On behalf of the Tampa City Council I
09:10:17 would like to present you with a commendation.
09:10:20 And I won't read it.
09:10:24 Congratulations.
09:10:25 [ Applause ]
09:10:26 There are some gifts for you
09:10:38 >> On behalf of Tampa PBA a $100 gift certificate to
09:10:54 PBA gift supplies, and congratulations on a job well
09:10:58 done.
09:11:01 >> Representing Tampa Lowry Park Zoo, on behalf of the
09:11:04 zoo we thank you so much for everything you are doing
09:11:06 for us keeping us safe and would like to invite you
09:11:09 and your family to spend the day at Lowry Park.
09:11:14 >> Steve Stickley representing Stepp's towing service.
09:11:19 Detective bridgeman, on behalf of Jim and Judy Stepp
09:11:23 we would like to thank you for your work out there
09:11:28 clearing those cases, so we have this statue that we
09:11:31 would like to present to you, and also gift

09:11:34 certificate to Lee Roy Selmon's.
09:11:40 >> Frank DeSoto with Bill Currie Ford.
09:11:44 We are very proud to recognize your achievements, and
09:11:47 I would like to present with you this watch.
09:11:49 Thank you very much for your contributions.
09:11:58 >> I'm Michelle Patty from the Michelle Patty legal
09:12:05 and referral service.
09:12:06 We would like to say thank you for going beyond the
09:12:09 call of duty.
09:12:10 Thank you so much.
09:12:16 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Here on behalf of a variety of
09:12:18 different people.
09:12:19 I have one question for you.
09:12:23 When did you count the number of cases that were
09:12:25 closed?
09:12:26 At the end?
09:12:28 So the chief just added them all and came up with 120
09:12:33 or something.
09:12:33 That's great, great.
09:12:34 This is a certificate at Bryn Allen studios.
09:12:38 You can keep in the your house.
09:12:40 I'm sure you are working undercover.

09:12:42 Don't put it in the office.
09:12:44 And we won't put it in the newspaper.
09:12:46 On behalf of Bern's steakhouse, we would like to
09:12:50 provide you with a gift certificate so you can enjoy
09:12:52 dinner there at your leisure.
09:12:54 On behalf of Rigatoni's we are providing you with
09:12:58 certificates to enjoy lunch or dinner there. On
09:13:00 behalf of the Hillsborough County towing association
09:13:02 we are providing you with a gift certificate to your
09:13:06 choice of Lee Roy Selmons, Outback, enjoy yourself
09:13:08 there.
09:13:09 And on behalf of the Channelside cinema we are going
09:13:13 to provide you with four tickets to the IMAX theater
09:13:16 so you can go enjoy yourself after dinner.
09:13:20 Congratulations.
09:13:21 [ Applause ]
09:13:22 >> I would like to thank the council for recognizing
09:13:33 me this morning.
09:13:34 I would also like to thank my department, Chief Hogue,
09:13:36 major Honeywell and my sergeant Burkhoff and my squad,
09:13:44 because when I was busy doing this they had to take
09:13:47 the lion's share of the other work.

09:13:49 So I would like to say thank you to everybody.
09:13:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:13:53 [ Applause ]
09:13:54 Our next presentation, I am going to ask Santiago to
09:14:14 come up.
09:14:15 Then following him councilman Dingfelder will proceed
09:14:18 with all the commendations and everything.
09:14:20 >> Honorable members of City Council, Santiago
09:14:25 Corrada, neighborhood services administrator.
09:14:27 First of all, let me thank you for acknowledging the
09:14:29 great work of our men and women, the City of Tampa
09:14:33 workforce family and their work on the Super Bowl and
09:14:35 all the special events that proceeded it and followed
09:14:38 it, and also thank you for giving me this forum to
09:14:41 really speak about the great work that all of the men
09:14:43 and women of the City of Tampa performed during the
09:14:46 Super Bowl.
09:14:47 As some of you know our road to the Super Bowl started
09:14:50 way back in 2004.
09:14:51 In fact some of you approved some of the documents
09:14:54 that went into our bid to host the Super Bowl in 2005,
09:14:58 actually March of 2005.

09:15:00 Shortly after that, our mayor and members of the host
09:15:03 committee went to Washington, D.C. and presented to
09:15:06 all of the NFL owners where we were granted the bid to
09:15:10 host the Super Bowl in 2009 so it goes all the way
09:15:13 back to 2004.
09:15:15 And then our city started to plan.
09:15:17 We really started to plan back in 2005.
09:15:19 We assembled a small group of departments that would
09:15:22 be affected by the Super Bowl and the host committee
09:15:25 started its organization.
09:15:26 They hired a great Executive Director REIS Sigmon who
09:15:32 we worked very closely with the staff of the
09:15:35 organizing committee and made sure that our city
09:15:37 departments were involved with the NFL and the host
09:15:39 committee, and in fact we have some, thanks to
09:15:42 councilman Dingfelder, that we are honoring this
09:15:44 morning.
09:15:44 But I really wanted to mention all of the departments
09:15:47 that were involved, because there were so, so many.
09:15:50 Our beautification and aesthetics were handled by Jim
09:15:54 of clean city and Karen Palus of parks and recreation,
09:15:57 budget was involved, our legal department was involved

09:15:59 in preparing documents and agreements, code
09:16:02 enforcement was responsible for going out and
09:16:05 maintaining the clean zones and being involved in the
09:16:07 development of the clean zone.
09:16:09 Our communications under IT were involved in making
09:16:11 sure that we were all communicating throughout those
09:16:13 special events, community outreach under neighborhood
09:16:17 and community relations, our emergency management team
09:16:20 that included fire rescue, health, medical, law
09:16:24 enforcement under the direction of Chief Hogue, major
09:16:27 John Bennett, major Marc Hamlin and Tom Berry.
09:16:30 Our convention center which hosted the media and other
09:16:33 big events.
09:16:34 Minority business involvement, Greg Hart involved in
09:16:37 making sure that many of our small local businesses
09:16:39 and minority businesses were given the opportunity to
09:16:41 bid on services for the Super Bowl.
09:16:44 Our environmental green officer with all the
09:16:46 environmentally friendly programs that the Super Bowl
09:16:49 brings to the city.
09:16:50 Our public relations office.
09:16:51 Public works.

09:16:52 Parking and transportation division.
09:16:54 Our public relations, I have mentioned solid waste,
09:16:58 special events office under parks and recreation.
09:17:00 And I have mentioned traffic and transportation, but
09:17:03 we also threw our net wider than that and involved the
09:17:06 downtown partnership, Christine Burdick, our Tampa
09:17:09 Sports Authority, our Westshore district, West Tampa,
09:17:14 Ybor City, and of course our youth education team, our
09:17:19 yes centers.
09:17:20 So it included all those people and it was really my
09:17:22 responsibility to make sure they were working together
09:17:24 and supporting the NFL and the host committee over the
09:17:27 four years.
09:17:28 And it wasn't easy.
09:17:29 This year we started with the MLK parade, the same
09:17:33 week we had the children's Gasparilla parade, then we
09:17:36 rolled into Super Bowl week, Super Bowl weekend, then
09:17:39 we went into the Gasparilla invasion, the knight
09:17:42 parade.
09:17:43 We are getting ready this week for the run.
09:17:46 And then shortly thereafter the festival of the arts.
09:17:48 And I really want to conclude with some testimonials

09:17:52 that we received from some individuals that visited
09:17:54 and if you will bear with me I want to read some of
09:17:56 these, folks that visited the area, went back home and
09:17:59 were so thrilled with their experience they decided to
09:18:01 write to us.
09:18:02 We have an individual from North Carolina that said:
09:18:04 "Just wanted to let you know that we had a great time
09:18:07 in your city.
09:18:08 Actually made it to the Super Bowl game and was able
09:18:10 to get back home on Monday with ease.
09:18:13 I wanted to compliment the entire city, its residents,
09:18:16 municipal workers and everyone who had a hand in the
09:18:18 event.
09:18:19 I was amazed at the ability of a mid size city to put
09:18:23 such a tremendous effort out.
09:18:24 I felt safe, welcome and relaxed at all times.
09:18:27 We had no trouble of any kind from any source.
09:18:29 We found everything so organized and it was so easy to
09:18:31 maneuver around the entertainment area and your city."
09:18:35 Another person from Pittsburgh wrote: "After moving
09:18:38 to the Pittsburgh area from Tampa Bay five years ago I
09:18:40 traveled to Tampa with my brother-in-law and two

09:18:42 friends for the Super Bowl.
09:18:44 As die-hard Steelers fans, I was alerted of the
09:18:47 opportunity to watch the Steelers with my dad, a
09:18:49 resident of Dunedin.
09:18:51 This is the first Super Bowl since 1979 where we could
09:18:55 watch the Super Bowl and the Steelers together.
09:18:57 My traveling companions were amazed how well managed
09:19:01 it was.
09:19:01 Everything was organized.
09:19:02 All officials and police were friendly.
09:19:04 Your level of professionalism were second to none.
09:19:08 I explained to them the capacities the streets were
09:19:10 designed for and how the layout made moving tens of
09:19:13 thousands of people effortless.
09:19:15 The traffic gridlock would have affected our area
09:19:19 immediately.
09:19:20 They were impressed during our long drive home.
09:19:23 Bottom line, it gave me an opportunity to show off the
09:19:27 area that I grew up in.
09:19:28 You get the contract and we'll get our team there,
09:19:31 deal?
09:19:31 Thank you once again.

09:19:32 I hope other cities will take notice and model
09:19:35 themselves after you."
09:19:36 You know, we talk about the economic impact of a Super
09:19:39 Bowl.
09:19:40 Minority business, small business numbers are not in
09:19:43 yet, but they indicate record numbers, over $4 million
09:19:46 in contracts, and a member of our host committee said
09:19:49 it best this week when he said he was at the dentist
09:19:52 office not too long ago, and there was a bellman from
09:19:55 one of the local hotels there having a crown put in,
09:19:59 and he told that member of the host committee that had
09:20:02 it not been for the tips I earned during the Super
09:20:05 Bowl I would not have been able to put in this crown.
09:20:07 So those are some of the lessons our host committee --
09:20:11 we had a wrap up with the host committee.
09:20:15 We have not had our wrap up.
09:20:17 And the operations conducted during Super Bowl week
09:20:20 and the day of the game were extremely successful,
09:20:23 near perfect.
09:20:23 We did have some little minor things that we noted and
09:20:26 we will correct.
09:20:28 Be sure for our next Super Bowl.

09:20:30 Again I want to take the opportunity since Congressman
09:20:32 Dingfelder wanted to honor some of the departments to
09:20:34 really talk about the great work and coordination of
09:20:36 all of those city departments because it really was an
09:20:39 all hands-on deck effort and we couldn't pick and
09:20:42 choose certain crews.
09:20:44 We didn't want to insult everyone because everyone was
09:20:46 involved in working so we have the leadership here.
09:20:49 They'll take back commendations and have conversation
09:20:52 with their full staffs but everyone contributed to
09:20:54 make sure we had a world class event here.
09:20:56 So thank you for the opportunity to speak this
09:20:58 morning.
09:20:58 I appreciate it.
09:21:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Public works, and clean team, parks
09:21:08 and rec.
09:21:16 Don't be shy.
09:21:25 Santiago said it so well.
09:21:26 As we sort of participated in any Gasparilla events,
09:21:34 Super Bowl events, it became so obvious, because you
09:21:36 see so many of our staff working such long, hard
09:21:41 hours.

09:21:42 As a matter of fact, that's why I wanted TPD and Tampa
09:21:45 fire and rescue to stick around, too, because even
09:21:48 though I don't have a commendation for them today, you
09:21:51 know they were obviously extremely integral part in
09:21:55 the Gasparilla and Super Bowl events as they always
09:21:59 are.
09:21:59 And what a team effort this is.
09:22:03 Santiago indicated -- and I apologize to any
09:22:06 departments I might have missed, you know, that there
09:22:09 must be 10 or 15 different groups within the city, and
09:22:12 of course out in the county and in the private sector
09:22:15 who were involved in this.
09:22:16 So with that, I'll just read this once, and really
09:22:22 proudly give departments these commendations from the
09:22:26 City Council to take back to their folks.
09:22:29 City of Tampa recently hosted two significant, the
09:22:34 43rd annual Super Bowl and Gasparilla parade.
09:22:37 During these events great planning and preparation,
09:22:42 city department versus played a prominent role in
09:22:44 assisting the NFL and Gasparilla committees.
09:22:48 Tampa City Council recognizes the devoted effort put
09:22:51 forth by these departments in allowing the

09:22:52 international spotlight to shine so brightly on the
09:22:55 City of Tampa, from assisting with the NFL experience
09:22:58 right through to a successful Gasparilla parade, and
09:23:01 of course the various other events we had going on.
09:23:04 Our employees perform in an exemplary manner.
09:23:07 We applaud their efforts and their results.
09:23:11 Solid waste.
09:23:16 Parks and rec.
09:23:25 Congratulations.
09:23:25 [ Applause ]
09:23:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Before they speak, let me hear from
09:23:33 council, and then we'll let them.
09:23:35 >> I want to add my praise to the voices of my
09:23:39 colleagues.
09:23:39 It was an extraordinary effort.
09:23:41 And I wanted to particularly highlight the Sunday
09:23:44 morning after Gasparilla.
09:23:46 Bayshore Boulevard looked as if nothing had happened,
09:23:50 and there had been over a million people there.
09:23:53 The staff, the professionalism, the dedication.
09:23:57 I think you started cleaning up the minute the parade
09:23:59 went down the street and worked all through the night.

09:24:02 And it was extraordinary.
09:24:03 And I want you to thank everybody who was responsible
09:24:07 for making our city shine.
09:24:09 Thank you so much.
09:24:13 And there was twice as much recycling this year as
09:24:16 last year.
09:24:18 Would you mind sharing?
09:24:20 >>> On behalf of the men and women of solid waste and
09:24:26 environment management I want to thank you all.
09:24:28 I'm honored to accept this on their behalf.
09:24:30 Truly a team effort.
09:24:31 The recycling doubled as we had ten tons last year and
09:24:35 we had about 4.68 and we believe that the marketing
09:24:38 and education and media attention provided to our
09:24:42 recycling campaign was instrumental in getting that
09:24:46 done.
09:24:46 The other thing this I want to emphasize, too, is from
09:24:50 a solid waste perspective, from the front desk all the
09:24:53 way to the refuge collector driver, all were involved
09:25:00 in the clean up, so not just my refuge collector
09:25:05 drivers but the admin person, the environmental
09:25:07 person, and all of them.

09:25:09 So again on behalf of the men and women of the solid
09:25:12 waste and environmental management program I want to
09:25:15 say thank you and I'm honored to receive this on your
09:25:17 behalf.
09:25:18 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I went to the Super Bowl and had
09:25:20 a great time.
09:25:21 I saw Tom Berry riding around with his little scooter.
09:25:24 I was stuck up in the garage for about two hours.
09:25:27 And the passenger in my car said, I think I smell
09:25:32 cigars.
09:25:33 I'm being overcome by smoke.
09:25:35 I said, no, that's carbon monoxide.
09:25:38 That's what it was.
09:25:39 I was stuck for two hours.
09:25:40 But I called the liaison here, Mr. Santiago, and he
09:25:43 called major Bennett, and captain, I don't know his
09:25:46 name, and I was out of there within ten minutes.
09:25:49 I got out of the garage about 2:30 in the morning.
09:25:51 But evidently there was a little snafu somewheres
09:25:56 where they had blocked some driveways so people
09:25:58 couldn't sneak in, but then we couldn't get out
09:26:00 because there was only one way to get out.

09:26:02 But it was great and everybody did a great job.
09:26:08 >> What were you doing in the garage at three in the
09:26:10 morning?
09:26:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Probably in jail if it was 2:30 in
09:26:19 the morning.
09:26:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I just want to say during the Super
09:26:22 Bowl event, I was very proud, very proud of this
09:26:26 community and this city.
09:26:29 I was out at a lot of events.
09:26:31 I was representing the board at a loss of press
09:26:33 conferences, a lot of events, and I'll tell you, it
09:26:37 was tremendous to see how well we were organized, to
09:26:41 see the professionalism of our police officers, our
09:26:46 fire rescue.
09:26:47 It was just great.
09:26:48 Not only there but also the knight parade.
09:26:51 I was just so proud to be a part of this community and
09:26:54 this city to see what took place and how well and
09:27:02 professionally everything ran.
09:27:03 It was incredible.
09:27:04 I also want to say, hats off to this council.
09:27:09 It is my understanding in previous years that from the

09:27:12 MBE program there was not a lot of participation.
09:27:16 This year I understand there was over 400 minority
09:27:18 participants.
09:27:19 I don't know what the numbers are, but my
09:27:22 understanding is that from the minority business
09:27:29 vendors they received record numbers this year, and I
09:27:33 think that's because council invited them in to talk
09:27:35 to us and have discussion on more than one occasion.
09:27:38 So I want to highlight that and also to Greg Hart
09:27:43 because I know we had a problem going back a few weeks
09:27:45 ago and he was already on top of it, and before the
09:27:48 day was over it was resolved.
09:27:49 That's the kind of thing that you want your city to
09:27:53 represent.
09:27:54 That's on top of issues, to meet with people, that
09:27:57 resolve those issues, that's what makes a good city.
09:28:01 That's what makes your community look well.
09:28:05 I just want to say to all of you, to the city staff,
09:28:08 to the administration, to all those who work so hard,
09:28:11 it just felt good to be a part of this community, this
09:28:14 city, from the Super Bowl on to the Gasparilla.
09:28:17 Again thank you all of you so very much.

09:28:22 [ Applause ]
09:28:26 >> On behalf of clean city, we have many, many star
09:28:30 performers in clean city.
09:28:31 And our mission and goal was to provide a beautiful
09:28:34 city, and also make sure that it was complete.
09:28:39 But on behalf of clean city I want to thank you for
09:28:42 these commendations and we will take that with great
09:28:45 pride.
09:28:46 Thank you.
09:28:47 [ Applause ]
09:28:48 >> KAREN PALUS: Good morning, City Council.
09:28:50 On behalf of the Parks and Recreation Department, the
09:28:52 entire team, I truly thank you for this commendation.
09:28:57 They worked tirelessly.
09:28:59 They had done a phenomenal job. I'm really proud of
09:29:00 them.
09:29:01 I want to recognize two of my team members that are
09:29:03 here today who were of leadership in the Super Bowl,
09:29:06 Pete Burgue, our deputy director, and Susan Robinson,
09:29:10 our office of special events.
09:29:12 Without their leadership we could not do the activity
09:29:15 we do each week.

09:29:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Could we have them stand so we know
09:29:18 who they are?
09:29:20 [ Applause ]
09:29:23 >>KAREN PALUS: Oversee 800 events every year.
09:29:27 I'm real proud of them and their entire team.
09:29:29 I would like to say on behalf of the entire group, I
09:29:32 know I speak for all of the department, we would also
09:29:34 like to acknowledge Santiago for his leadership.
09:29:39 [ Applause ]
09:29:41 We appreciate that.
09:29:42 Thank you very much.
09:29:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Again thank you very much.
09:29:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If I could, and I apologize for not
09:29:50 acknowledging Santiago, because he does this sort of
09:29:54 umbrella coordination on all these big events year in
09:29:57 and year out, and let's acknowledge two folks up a
09:29:59 little higher, the chief of staff Darrell Smith, and
09:30:03 of course our mayor, Pam Iorio.
09:30:05 I know both had to be deeply involved on a daily basis
09:30:09 through all of this.
09:30:10 So congratulations to all.
09:30:14 [ Applause ]

09:30:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:30:21 The first item on our agenda -- motion and second to
09:31:17 open the workshop.
09:31:21 Thank you to a very efficient staff reminding us that
09:31:23 we need to open these workshops.
09:31:25 Okay?
09:31:25 Thank you.
09:31:27 We have our first workshop.
09:31:29 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:31:31 Opposes?
09:31:33 (Motion carried).
09:31:34 First workshop is on the local vendor preference.
09:31:48 Whose item is this?
09:31:50 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to suggest this, and hear
09:31:57 what everybody else thinks.
09:31:58 But we did get a memo today from an attorney who is
09:32:11 starting this and recommending that we look further
09:32:13 into this.
09:32:13 And he's asking that we continue it.
09:32:18 And I really appreciate the work he's done, and the
09:32:25 PowerPoint presentation.
09:32:26 I think council has.

09:32:29 I think also when we asked for those, we were really
09:32:32 asking for legal.
09:32:33 And do I see Chip or anyone here?
09:32:37 I'm not sure, I think it might be better for us to
09:32:42 look at this in-depth if we gave it a little more
09:32:44 time, the local business preference.
09:32:48 I'm just suggesting that.
09:32:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, Mr. Spearman is here.
09:32:56 Things change on a daily basis in this technology
09:33:00 world.
09:33:00 And I'm not opposed to having a five-minute
09:33:03 presentation, and we don't have to take any action,
09:33:06 but at least show us what you found and what you have
09:33:10 discovered, so that we can be better prepared to do
09:33:13 whatever we are going to do with all the -- when all
09:33:17 the information has been gathered.
09:33:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:33:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I recognize the leadership of the
09:33:25 Tampa independent business alliance here in our
09:33:29 audience, and I know that they want to participate,
09:33:32 and I think we should go ahead and discuss it.
09:33:41 >>MARY MULHERN: We should hear from them but we have

09:33:43 two workshop items and the local business is on the
09:33:46 second one.
09:33:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess the question, though, the
09:33:53 request by Mr. Taub is to continue the item.
09:33:55 And my concern, I told him I couldn't make that
09:33:57 decision, it would be up to the council if they wanted
09:33:59 to continue this item.
09:34:01 I know it's been on our schedule for some time.
09:34:03 So I'm wondering what's the council's pleasure.
09:34:06 Mr. Miranda is saying that he wants Mr. Spearman to
09:34:09 move forward with the presentation.
09:34:12 So I guess we'll move forward.
09:34:14 It's the sentiment of the council that we move
09:34:16 forward.
09:34:16 And so did you want Mr. Spearman to move forward?
09:34:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think it's fine, we can move
09:34:27 forward, and the nice thing about workshops is we can
09:34:30 gather information and continue work shopping.
09:34:33 Nothing is going to happen overnight on any of these
09:34:36 issues.
09:34:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
09:34:38 Mr. Spearman.

09:34:39 >> Greg Spearman, director of purchasing, City of
09:34:42 Tampa.
09:34:42 You did have a packet that we provided for you last
09:34:46 week.
09:34:47 I believe you had a chance to receive that and look at
09:34:49 it.
09:34:49 And I would like to also make just a couple of
09:34:52 acknowledgments before I proceed with the
09:34:54 presentation.
09:34:56 One thing, Mr. Gregory Hart put together the data for
09:34:59 us today, out at the north management district and
09:35:03 also Mr. Michael hatchet, employed in economic
09:35:08 development who works on the PowerPoint, and Linda
09:35:11 Moore from the purchasing department.
09:35:13 So if we could actually have the presentation brought
09:35:17 up on the screen, please.
09:35:21 I am going to advance to the next slide, if we can get
09:35:23 this thing to cooperate.
09:35:25 This slide includes all procurement data from the City
09:35:33 of Tampa and it includes all categories.
09:35:35 I want to emphasize these categories are five
09:35:38 categories.

09:35:39 It includes this, professional services,
09:35:44 nonprofessional services, construction, and
09:35:47 construct-rated services.
09:35:49 >> Is there anything it doesn't include?
09:35:51 >>> This is everything in terms of what we have issued
09:35:55 through the City of Tampa both in construction and in
09:35:58 purchasing.
09:35:58 The first slide basically shows you the percent of
09:36:01 dollars awarded between October 1, 2007, and September
09:36:05 30, 2008.
09:36:08 It also shows the market area.
09:36:10 And the market area for the sake of this discussion
09:36:14 includes Hillsborough County, Pasco County, Polk
09:36:16 County, Pinellas and Manatee County.
09:36:19 So when you look at the patch it shows you that 82% of
09:36:23 dollars were awarded within the SLBE area.
09:36:27 And there were 18% of dollars awarded outside of the
09:36:31 SLBE market area.
09:36:33 So we are doing really well in terms of where the
09:36:35 dollars are currently going for the City of Tampa
09:36:39 contract award bids.
09:36:41 The next slide shows the percent of SLBE dollars

09:36:46 awarded within the City of Tampa.
09:36:49 66% of the award dollars, okay, were awarded within
09:36:52 the City of Tampa city limits.
09:36:55 34% were within the remaining five-county area.
09:36:59 Okay.
09:37:06 The next slide shows the area of SLBE dollars awarded
09:37:10 within Hillsborough County.
09:37:11 66% of the dollars for the City of Tampa are awarded
09:37:16 in Hillsborough County during this period and 33% were
09:37:18 awarded within the remainder of the SLBE market area
09:37:22 which is the 5-county area we talked about earlier.
09:37:25 The next slide shows you the percentage of prime
09:37:30 contracts awarded between October 1, 2007, and
09:37:33 September 30, 2008.
09:37:35 54% of those dollars were awarded within the SLBE
09:37:39 market area, the five-county area, and 46% of those
09:37:43 were awarded outside of the SLBE market area.
09:37:51 The next slide shows the percentage of SLBE area
09:37:55 contracts awarded within the City of Tampa.
09:37:58 47% of those contracts were awarded within the City of
09:38:01 Tampa and 53% were awarded within the remainder of the
09:38:07 five-county area.

09:38:09 Not outside of the area, but within the remainder of
09:38:11 the five-county area.
09:38:15 The next slide shows the percentage of the small local
09:38:20 business enterprise contract awarded within
09:38:23 Hillsborough County.
09:38:23 48% of those contracts were awarded within the county
09:38:28 and 52% were awarded within the remainder of the five
09:38:32 county SLBE area.
09:38:41 I want to comment on some of the pros and cons.
09:38:45 One of the areas that S that local funds are given an
09:38:47 additional opportunity to be awarded city contracts.
09:38:51 The disadvantage is that it doesn't appear to be as
09:38:54 large of an issue, and that most of our vendors within
09:38:58 the five-county area are already receiving a
09:39:01 substantial share of the city's business.
09:39:07 Another advantage is the dollars may be kept within
09:39:10 the community.
09:39:11 The disadvantage is that firms that don't qualify
09:39:15 often have a greater positive impact on the local
09:39:18 community because they are employing local people
09:39:21 within the community when they come from outside the
09:39:23 community and want to perform services within the

09:39:26 community.
09:39:26 They don't typically bring people with them.
09:39:28 They hire locally.
09:39:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Greater positive impact?
09:39:34 >>> Yes.
09:39:34 It has a greater positive impact, because if an
09:39:37 out-of-town firm wins a bid and they don't have a
09:39:40 workforce, they will actually come into the local
09:39:42 community and hire local people to perform under a
09:39:45 contract.
09:39:46 >> How is that greater than if it is a local one?
09:39:50 >>> Well, what I am saying is if it we were
09:39:54 contracting with local we already have people that are
09:39:56 here.
09:39:56 But if the contractors from out of the local area, for
09:40:01 people who are unemployed, he may actually employ
09:40:03 those people to perform those services.
09:40:06 That's why their impact may be greater at the local
09:40:08 level.
09:40:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's let him do his presentation and
09:40:12 then raise questions.
09:40:15 Let him give his presentation, and then ask questions

09:40:19 later.
09:40:19 Okay?
09:40:21 >>> One of the advantages of having a local vendor
09:40:23 package program is that it may eliminate out-of-state
09:40:25 bidders who do not have local area and subcontractor
09:40:31 contracts.
09:40:32 The corresponding disadvantage is it can actually
09:40:34 discourage local economic development, that might
09:40:38 possibly open an office here pursuant to a contract
09:40:43 will not if they are less able to win the first
09:40:45 contract.
09:40:48 The next advantage is the local preference program
09:40:51 encourages local vendors to bid for city work.
09:40:53 The disadvantage is that it discourages competition
09:40:57 and eventually reduces the pool of competing vendors.
09:41:04 The next slide in terms of the advantage of having a
09:41:07 local preference program, a match system does not
09:41:10 increase the bid item price of the city.
09:41:15 However, the disadvantage is that there will be a
09:41:17 reduction in competition which eventually causes
09:41:21 prices to increase.
09:41:25 The next advantage in having a local preference

09:41:27 program, it helps to keep work in the city vendor
09:41:32 base.
09:41:32 The disadvantage is that it encourages reciprocity
09:41:37 among jurisdictions and price fixing or collusion
09:41:41 among local vendors.
09:41:45 The next advantage is that within the boundaries of
09:41:49 the small local business enterprise market area.
09:41:52 The disadvantage is that this definition, application
09:41:56 of local is subject to legal challenge.
09:42:02 The next advantage is that a local preference program
09:42:04 gives local vendors an advantage in the bid process.
09:42:07 The disadvantage is local vendors already have
09:42:11 inherent cost advantages in delivering products and
09:42:14 services to the city.
09:42:15 The preference policy unfairly exaggerates that
09:42:24 disadvantage.
09:42:24 One or two other things I would like to share with you
09:42:25 briefly.
09:42:26 The National Institute of Governmental Purchasing to
09:42:28 which the City of Tampa has belonged for a period of
09:42:31 40 years passed a resolution, a resolution number
09:42:36 101-6, and this was passed the 7th day of March

09:42:39 1987 and was ratified by the board on the 11th day
09:42:44 of September 1995.
09:42:47 It's very short.
09:42:48 It says: Whereas, the National Institute of
09:42:48 Governmental Purchasing, Inc. advocates the use of the
09:42:48 free, open competitive process for public procurement,
09:42:48 and
09:42:48 Whereas, the National Institute of Governmental
09:42:48 Purchasing, Inc. supports all efforts to include
09:42:48 everyone to participate on an equal basis in this
09:42:48 process, and
09:42:48 Whereas, the practice of preference laws or
09:42:48 regulations results in reduced competition and
09:42:48 increased prices;
09:42:48 Now Therefore, be it resolved that the National
09:42:48 Institute of Governmental Purchasing, Inc. is opposed
09:42:48 to all types of preference law and practice and views
09:42:48 it as an impediment to cost effective procurement of
09:42:48 goods, services and construction in a free enterprise
09:42:48 system.
09:43:24 I just wanted to share that information with you.
09:43:26 If you have any questions we would be happy at this

09:43:28 point in time.
09:43:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena, Mary Mulhern
09:43:32 and councilman Dingfelder.
09:43:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Spearman.
09:43:39 When you say "local," do you distinguish between a
09:43:45 locally owned business?
09:43:46 I see in the audience Carla, who owns a local store.
09:43:53 Do you distinguish between a locally owned book store
09:43:56 like hers or a locally existing book store like, let's
09:44:00 say, Borders?
09:44:03 >>GREG SPEARMAN: I think we have to really decide as
09:44:05 an organization legally what "local" really means.
09:44:08 >> I'm saying do you distinguish between locally
09:44:10 owned?
09:44:11 >> Locally owned, in other places, where "local"
09:44:16 preference exists, it's domiciled within a specific
09:44:20 geographic boundary.
09:44:21 >> Okay, that would be locally.
09:44:23 So do you in your analysis within Tampa and within
09:44:26 other counties, within Tampa, we might have both a
09:44:30 locally owned book store like Carla's and a nationally
09:44:36 owned one like Borders.

09:44:39 Do you for the sake of your analysis distinguish
09:44:39 between the two?
09:44:41 >> I would ask Mr. Greg Hart if he can respond to
09:44:45 that, because I believe we have a specific reference
09:44:48 for "local."
09:44:50 >> Gregory Hart, small and minority business office
09:44:55 manager.
09:44:55 Our interpretation or definition of "local" as applies
09:44:59 to our program and our efforts is that as long as the
09:45:02 enterprise has a full operating business, domiciled
09:45:09 here, and is conducting and providing services out of
09:45:13 that establishment.
09:45:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:45:19 That's a really, really key point to this whole
09:45:22 conversation.
09:45:22 Because Amazon, if you buy something online it might
09:45:25 be who knows where.
09:45:29 Borders might be physically here but the money goes to
09:45:32 wherever their headquarters.
09:45:33 But locally-owned means really locally-owned in Tampa.
09:45:37 And the economic positive ripple effect of that is
09:45:40 very different.

09:45:41 And that's something that I don't believe we have ever
09:45:43 addressed.
09:45:43 And that's what I think council is interested in
09:45:46 addressing.
09:45:54 >>MARY MULHERN: A couple of things.
09:45:55 I think that, you know, this is just a workshop for
09:46:01 our discussion, and I really want to hear from
09:46:03 everybody, and not advocating for anything at this
09:46:07 point.
09:46:08 But I have questions along that line, and I don't know
09:46:15 which they are for.
09:46:20 But when we award a contract based on that, and
09:46:23 assuming that, it sounds like the Borders is a local
09:46:27 business.
09:46:28 That was an example Linda was using.
09:46:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The way they have been defining it.
09:46:33 >>MARY MULHERN: Let's use a bigger example.
09:46:36 How about Home Depot?
09:46:37 If we do something with Home Depot, is that
09:46:40 considered -- we have a contract with them, or Office
09:46:43 Depot.
09:46:44 Are those considered local businesses?

09:46:46 Because they have stores here?
09:46:48 >>GREG SPEARMAN: If they have stores here they would
09:46:49 be considered a local business.
09:46:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I think this is maybe our definitions
09:46:55 need to change a little bit, and I don't see that as
09:47:00 creating a new ordinance, just maybe tweaking some
09:47:03 definitions, because the reality, they are not a local
09:47:07 business as compared to, you know, Bay to Bay hardware
09:47:13 or any of the other hardware stores that have already
09:47:15 gone out of business since and who knows, maybe
09:47:20 they'll come back some day.
09:47:21 The other thing is, I guess it's really not a matter
09:47:25 of checking up on that.
09:47:27 But when you look at local businesses, and whether
09:47:34 they are actually located here, I guess if you have a
09:47:38 branch here, then you are located here, so that kind
09:47:41 of makes, you know, these pie charts, if we got Home
09:47:45 Depot, and all those big stores included in there,
09:47:48 they don't really reflect so much.
09:47:51 And then the other thing I wanted to point out, and I
09:47:54 know there are local independent businesses here who
09:47:57 are going to talk and they have done a ton of

09:47:59 research.
09:47:59 But what I want to point out that, you know, you very
09:48:05 nicely laid out advantages and disadvantages, but with
09:48:10 the disadvantages, I don't really see any data here.
09:48:13 And I just want to point out, because I have done a
09:48:17 lot of reading.
09:48:18 I have a booklet for our economic development people,
09:48:22 because it talks about local as opposed to global
09:48:27 businesses and what they bring to the community.
09:48:30 We are going to hear a lot about that, I think, from
09:48:32 the public.
09:48:33 But I think they have the numbers here.
09:48:36 And we need to start looking at data.
09:48:37 We can't base our decisions about these things on, you
09:48:42 know, what the myths are, in 1995 is a long time ago
09:48:48 considering that we have businesses going out of
09:48:51 business and people getting laid off every day.
09:48:53 So I think we have to jump start the way that we look
09:48:56 at economic development, and those what I would like
09:48:58 to see come out of this meeting, is for people to go
09:49:01 back, look at the numbers, figure out how we can help
09:49:05 Tampa and Hillsborough County and, you know,

09:49:09 regionally, help us get out of this mess.
09:49:13 And there's a growing consensus among economists,
09:49:24 liberal and conservatives, that "local" is what's
09:49:27 going to save us in these tough economic times.
09:49:30 And I have got lots of books here.
09:49:31 I'll e-mail a list out.
09:49:35 But I really think if we are talking about advantages
09:49:39 and disadvantages you have to show us some numbers if
09:49:41 you want us to believe, that somehow I just don't
09:49:43 believe that there's collusion.
09:49:45 I think of OPEC when I think of collusion in prices.
09:49:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder, councilman
09:49:58 Miranda, and councilman Caetano.
09:50:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I do want to hear from the folks
09:50:04 who have come down to speak to us, but I had a couple
09:50:07 of questions, first, as related to what you presented,
09:50:10 Greg.
09:50:11 When we talk about the five categories, all
09:50:13 procurement categories, in any one given year, what
09:50:16 sort of dollar amount are we talking about, ballpark?
09:50:21 100 million?
09:50:22 200 million?

09:50:23 >>> Collectively speaking?
09:50:25 A little over 200 million.
09:50:27 >> So the 200 million, let's just say for argument
09:50:30 sake, and I go to page 5 on your presentation, which
09:50:34 basically says 54% stays within the SLBE area which I
09:50:42 think you said is how many counts counties?
09:50:44 Five counties.
09:50:45 Pretty big area.
09:50:46 And yet we are still capturing, let's say for argument
09:50:50 sake, 50%.
09:50:51 Therefore 50% of that $200 million, or $100 million,
09:50:56 is outside of those -- outside of our Tampa Bay
09:50:59 5-county area.
09:51:01 Okay.
09:51:01 $100 million of our contracts are outside.
09:51:05 I know a big vendor of ours this year is CH2M hill
09:51:12 because they are doing the UCAP project.
09:51:15 I think they have a local office as well as a national
09:51:17 headquarters in Denver, I believe.
09:51:20 What you said earlier was that would be counted as a
09:51:23 local business under this equation?
09:51:28 >>> Correct.

09:51:30 >> So even though a huge contract like the UCAP
09:51:33 contracts which are more, I don't know, 50, 70
09:51:36 million, who knows what, at any given time, that's
09:51:40 still being counted as local.
09:51:41 And, you know, their office is pretty big here but it
09:51:44 not their headquarters. Anyway, the bottom line is we
09:51:47 are sending $100 million outside of this five-county
09:51:51 area, without really giving great pause about, you
09:51:54 know, the economic advantage.
09:51:57 We could have our own local stimulus package if half
09:52:03 of that had stayed local in any given year.
09:52:07 And you know what?
09:52:08 We are not talking about -- we are not inventing the
09:52:12 wheel here.
09:52:13 And Joseph, I don't know, I have given you a copy of
09:52:16 this, but Hollywood, Florida, is a 3% preference.
09:52:21 Lakeland is a 2% preference.
09:52:23 Osceola county gets a 3% preference.
09:52:27 Miami gardens gets a 5% preference.
09:52:30 That's where I'm coming from.
09:52:31 I'm not saying we take all the bids and throw out the
09:52:34 out-of-towners and we just take local bidders.

09:52:37 What I'm suggesting is that perhaps we consider
09:52:41 mimicking on a very preliminary basis some of these
09:52:45 other municipalities and counties.
09:52:48 Maybe Tampa starts out and we say we'll give a 2%
09:52:51 advantage if you are within the five-county area, a 2%
09:52:55 price advantage.
09:52:56 All right.
09:52:56 So if you are local and you bid $100 and the guy from,
09:53:02 let's say, Pensacola, who often they are selling us
09:53:06 cars these days, he bids $99 and you bid $100, you are
09:53:12 going to win, okay, because we are going to bump you
09:53:15 up 2% because you are local.
09:53:18 >>> One point of clarification, council, and for the
09:53:20 record.
09:53:20 It's important to make a clear distinction between
09:53:25 slide 2.
09:53:27 Slide 2 actually shows that 82% of the dollars are
09:53:31 actually awarded within SLBE, 18% are outside of the
09:53:35 markets.
09:53:36 Slide number 5 shows you the percentage of current
09:53:37 prime contracts awarded.
09:53:40 So I don't want you to associate prime contracts with

09:53:44 dollars, because they are not the same.
09:53:48 The dollars, the majority of the dollars are actually
09:53:50 awarded within SLBE.
09:53:52 That slide 2 --
09:53:54 >> Okay, so you have dollars and then number of
09:53:56 contracts.
09:53:56 >>> That's correct.
09:53:56 >> So even -- my numbers are off.
09:54:00 Even in your slide, we are sending $36 million out,
09:54:05 under your equation.
09:54:06 But I do question, and I think Linda and Mary bring up
09:54:09 a good point, is just because you have got -- not Home
09:54:15 Depot or whatever here, if most of those profits are
09:54:20 going elsewhere, we might need to try to define what
09:54:24 really is local.
09:54:27 But listen, these days, $36 million is still a lot of
09:54:31 money.
09:54:31 And to the extent that we can keep that local, I think
09:54:35 we should.
09:54:36 The last question I had for you, Greg, is -- and Mary
09:54:41 alluded to this as well -- the conclusions sound a bit
09:54:46 on the anecdotal side.

09:54:47 And I appreciate your 30 years of experience in
09:54:51 government purchasing.
09:54:52 But, you know, are there studies that back up these
09:54:57 conclusions, number one?
09:54:59 Number two, has anybody contacted these communities in
09:55:02 Florida that I'm talking about, the Hollywood,
09:55:05 Florida, 3%, Lakeland 2%, to say what sort of impact
09:55:10 has this had on your community?
09:55:13 Has it had a positive impact?
09:55:14 Have you had retribution from outside for doing this?
09:55:19 >>> Yes, we have, councilman Dingfelder.
09:55:21 In fact I spoke directly with Broward County.
09:55:23 We had a local preference program in place since the
09:55:25 early 2000s.
09:55:28 They actually sent their data.
09:55:29 They have been tracking it for several years now.
09:55:31 And since 2003, 2004, they have only used the local
09:55:36 preference 11 times.
09:55:37 >> And what is their local preference?
09:55:40 >>> They have only used it 11 times.
09:55:44 >> 10% is high, though.
09:55:46 >>> It's 10%.

09:55:49 It will various depending upon locality or
09:55:51 jurisdiction but they have a 10% preference.
09:55:52 In that period of time they have only used it eleven
09:55:55 times which means that when they apply the preference
09:55:59 to local contractors versus outside contractors, the
09:56:03 locals are the majority of the time.
09:56:09 >> Maybe I am getting it wrong but 10% seems so high
09:56:12 that it might push that -- it might skew the results.
09:56:18 Because then you have got to be within 10%.
09:56:22 Usually, I'm selling widgets, the guy up in Pensacola
09:56:25 is selling widgets.
09:56:26 Usually we are not 10 apart so usually the 10% is not
09:56:30 a big deal.
09:56:31 I would think a better place to look might be places
09:56:35 that are only 2 or 3% because that might be the
09:56:37 difference.
09:56:37 And that might help the local people.
09:56:41 We haven't talked to them yet.
09:56:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The last question wasn't answered
09:56:51 and I apologize.
09:56:53 But it's the same question.
09:56:55 Is it national or are they just taking a position that

09:56:58 they are opposed to it?
09:57:04 >>> They have done a study.
09:57:07 And I just want to quote a paragraph from that study.
09:57:11 The national association of government purchasing says
09:57:15 32% of all respondents indicated their public entity
09:57:18 had a local preference.
09:57:20 67% believe that local preference adversely impacts
09:57:25 competition and pricing.
09:57:26 The American Bar association, NTI, association of
09:57:31 general contractors, and the government office
09:57:36 association, also.
09:57:39 Also.
09:57:39 >> The study that I'm talking about, have they studied
09:57:42 the results on the local economy of those 32%?
09:57:46 >>> I do not believe the study went to that extent.
09:57:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
09:57:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:57:51 I have so many thoughts running through my mind it
09:57:54 will be difficult sometimes to become untangled
09:57:56 because I'm getting surprised here on a daily basis.
09:58:01 That means every Thursday.
09:58:02 Let me say this.

09:58:04 If I apply with what we just said, if this gentleman
09:58:07 was before us today and we had a contract and he said
09:58:11 I'm going to award it to the highest bidder, we eat
09:58:14 him alive.
09:58:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Because it's not in our rules.
09:58:20 >>> I didn't interrupt you, sir.
09:58:22 We would eat him alive.
09:58:23 Secondly is this.
09:58:24 We live in a fortunate area that has very few national
09:58:28 headquarters, companies in this area.
09:58:29 The City of Tampa.
09:58:31 Thirdly, if we apply this principal, does that mean
09:58:34 that you have to be born in Tampa, to run for office
09:58:37 in Tampa?
09:58:37 The answer is no.
09:58:40 Must you be born in Hillsborough County, to run for
09:58:42 county commissioner?
09:58:43 The answer is no.
09:58:45 Should I be born in Florida to run for the state
09:58:48 highest office, the governor office?
09:58:50 The answer is no.
09:58:52 So what we are saying is that we as individuals, in

09:58:56 our own homes, would set something up for bid, and we
09:59:00 would choose something other than the lowest bidder to
09:59:04 build a house, to buy a refrigerator, to do something
09:59:08 of nature of repairs, because they are local.
09:59:11 I admire all the local businesses, most of the
09:59:15 businesses in this area are local.
09:59:17 By your standards that I read, we are really in the
09:59:20 ballpark in distribution of funds.
09:59:23 So what I'm saying is, I don't quite understand the
09:59:29 ramifications of us going into this other than what
09:59:33 has not been said, that the general population at the
09:59:37 end of the day will pay something more than what they
09:59:42 are paying for today.
09:59:44 Thinking of tomorrow, and other vendors dropping out,
09:59:48 and the pool of vendors becoming smaller, the
09:59:53 probability, not that it's going to happen, but the
09:59:55 probability of something going on -- and you read
09:59:59 about it in the papers and see it on television every
10:00:01 day where company A and company B and company C, and
10:00:05 they price fix.
10:00:06 I'm not saying that's going to happen, would be a
10:00:10 monumental task for any government to trace.

10:00:15 It's very difficult for me to be able to support
10:00:17 something that, A, does not address the best interest
10:00:25 of the citizens that pay my salary here.
10:00:29 I am an employee of them.
10:00:32 They are not an employee of me.
10:00:34 So what I'm saying is when I see something like this
10:00:41 and somebody else is doing it, I wasn't elected
10:00:45 someplace else, I'm elected here.
10:00:48 And we have to be very careful when we start doing
10:00:51 these things.
10:00:52 You and your staff and all the other in minority
10:00:54 contracting have done an outstanding job to make sure
10:00:57 that the fairness doctrine of everybody being included
10:01:01 in the process has been adhered to.
10:01:05 Chairman Scott has been a leader in that.
10:01:08 The rest of the council members have been a supporter
10:01:10 of that, because council chairman has a higher voice
10:01:14 of authority than we do.
10:01:17 And thank you again for saying the prayer for that
10:01:21 little pep talk.
10:01:22 But what I'm saying is, it is not in the best interest
10:01:26 of the general taxpayers of this city for us to do

10:01:31 this.
10:01:36 You must have a process to give bonuses.
10:01:38 You know, when don't have General Motors.
10:01:40 We are not Detroit, Michigan, thank God, because the
10:01:43 stock right now of General Motors is not even greater
10:01:46 than a spark plug inside their car.
10:01:49 So what are we saying?
10:01:51 Where are we going?
10:01:52 What are we doing?
10:01:53 Who are we going to help?
10:02:04 It is equal as anything in the five counties as I have
10:02:06 seen before this council.
10:02:07 I'm not surprised like I said earlier, because this is
10:02:13 surprise city.
10:02:14 I'm just here to say that these things don't work.
10:02:18 If something doesn't work for an individual, guess
10:02:20 what, almost always it doesn't work for a city.
10:02:29 We look at bargains.
10:02:31 We look at comparable products of the same make, the
10:02:34 same size, and compare and shop and that's what makes
10:02:39 stores viable.
10:02:40 That's what makes the difference in the American

10:02:42 public going out to buy things.
10:02:46 And there's where my feelings are.
10:02:50 I admire the local vendors.
10:02:51 I admire what they do.
10:02:59 They have the right to bid on any contract that the
10:03:01 city has.
10:03:02 And they are minorities, some of them are.
10:03:05 They already have a preference.
10:03:06 Am I getting two preferences now?
10:03:07 Is that possible?
10:03:08 Can I ask you that question?
10:03:09 >>GREG SPEARMAN: That in effect could be what
10:03:13 potentially happens.
10:03:14 >> So you can get perhaps two preferences.
10:03:20 >> Legal.
10:03:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Saved by the bell.
10:03:25 I'm busy right now.
10:03:26 But what I'm saying is, that's how I feel.
10:03:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think that's a legal question.
10:03:32 I don't think he can answer that question.
10:03:34 He needs to speak to -- legally, I don't think he can
10:03:38 do that under the Supreme Court rule.

10:03:40 Go ahead.
10:03:40 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We would have to look at
10:03:42 ultimately if the council chose to go in this
10:03:45 direction how that was structured.
10:03:46 But I think that that is probably what would happen,
10:03:49 is you would have two sets of preferences both of
10:03:55 which would be applied, that is based on discussions
10:03:58 we have had so far, and what happens in other
10:04:02 locations, that's probably the direction it would go.
10:04:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Not yet.
10:04:13 Councilman Caetano.
10:04:14 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Your main focus, Mr. Spearman, is
10:04:18 to create jobs, stimulate the economy, correct?
10:04:21 >>GREG SPEARMAN: That could be one of the perceptions
10:04:23 of the program.
10:04:24 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mrs. Saul-Sena mentioned the book
10:04:27 store.
10:04:27 I don't know who the lady is that owns the book store.
10:04:29 But at the Wiregrass I think you can find Barnes and
10:04:33 Noble put up a humongous building there.
10:04:37 Barnes & Nobles is not from Tampa.
10:04:39 But everybody working there is from Tampa, I presume.

10:04:43 They have the resources.
10:04:45 A lot of small businesses don't have the resources to
10:04:48 compete with somebody like Barnes & Nobles.
10:04:52 I'm in the hair salon business.
10:04:53 I can't compete with fantastic Sam.
10:04:56 They do national advertising.
10:04:58 We may do better work than they do, but when they
10:05:01 throw something on the air it goes all over the United
10:05:04 States.
10:05:05 Anybody that's a franchise holder for fantastic Sam's
10:05:08 has that advantage.
10:05:09 They are paying for it in their initiation fee when
10:05:13 they buy that franchise.
10:05:14 But I support local businesses.
10:05:16 I'm a local business person.
10:05:18 I have been here 21 years.
10:05:20 It's difficult.
10:05:22 Especially when you are up against the big ones.
10:05:26 And if I can -- anybody I hire has to be local.
10:05:29 We get people every day coming from out of state who
10:05:32 just came into town, are looking for a job.
10:05:35 We will hire if they have the credentials.

10:05:38 And it's hard to compete with the big guys.
10:05:40 I work for a national company that had over 2,000
10:05:43 beauty salons throughout the world.
10:05:45 And it's hard to compete with them.
10:05:48 They have the resources.
10:05:49 They might not make it right away at the location here
10:05:52 locally, but eventually they'll get there.
10:05:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Spearman, when you go out for bids,
10:06:03 are there local companies here that can bid on every
10:06:05 bid that you put out there?
10:06:08 >>GREG SPEARMAN: In the majority of the cases,
10:06:09 Councilwoman Miller, the only time that we go outside
10:06:14 of the area when it's not local.
10:06:18 >> If there's not local you have to two outside.
10:06:22 So we need that outside so the people can help us with
10:06:25 the bids.
10:06:26 >>> Not every bid is available locally.
10:06:28 >> And locally we don't have bids that you put out
10:06:32 there, is that correct?
10:06:33 >>> That's correct.
10:06:34 >> So if the outside counties come in, they hire
10:06:38 locally.

10:06:38 So that is still hiring local poem and helping the
10:06:41 peopler who in the City of Tampa.
10:06:43 So I don't have a problem with that as long as they
10:06:45 don't bring their own workers in, then I can say yes.
10:06:48 If but they are not bringing their workers in, they
10:06:51 are hiring locally, correct?
10:06:52 >>> I can't speak to that unequivocable.
10:06:58 We have seen people come in and hire local people.
10:07:00 Whether that happens 100 percent of the time I can't
10:07:03 be certain but that does happen a great majority of
10:07:05 the time.
10:07:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:07:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me make a couple statements here.
10:07:09 One is, as I understand this chart, and I thank you
10:07:13 for this information.
10:07:14 I guess the board of county commissions, thank you for
10:07:21 all this backup information.
10:07:22 We took it May 1st, 2002, and I did it over at the
10:07:27 county.
10:07:29 We rejected it because the community came in, the
10:07:31 local people came in, and said, if you do that, you
10:07:34 are going to hurt us, across the board, okay?

10:07:37 I'm just telling you.
10:07:40 Now, back to your chart.
10:07:42 Are you telling us that 82% of the revenue dollars are
10:07:48 already local?
10:07:48 >>> That is correct, yes, sir.
10:07:51 82% within the -- and --
10:07:55 So you don't have a problem, is what you are telling
10:07:56 us.
10:07:57 >>> That is what the charter suggested to us.
10:08:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It would be interesting, though, also
10:08:02 to look at, councilman Dingfelder, what's been the
10:08:07 reaction to those that implemented a local preference?
10:08:11 How has it made an impact in terms of outside of the
10:08:14 local jurisdiction?
10:08:15 What has been the reciprocity, the repercussions from
10:08:19 that?
10:08:23 I would think the price has been paid from other
10:08:34 areas.
10:08:34 But the issue, when you look at the chart, you are
10:08:37 telling us that the city doesn't have a problem with
10:08:42 local vendors because you are already spending 82% of
10:08:48 your dollars in Hillsborough County.

10:08:49 >>> Within the five-county area.
10:08:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Within the five-county.
10:08:55 Now, I know when we did the MBE ordinance, St. Pete
10:09:03 came over to listen because we were talking at one
10:09:06 time about not including those geographical areas, is
10:09:08 that right? They came in.
10:09:10 There was another county that said, don't do that,
10:09:12 because we give preference to Hillsborough County and
10:09:16 other counties to do that, then we are going to do the
10:09:19 same thing.
10:09:19 I remember that well.
10:09:20 So I just want to caution us as we move forward,
10:09:23 because there are people who look at that.
10:09:31 Councilman Dingfelder.
10:09:32 Then Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:09:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think it's a broad-blanket
10:09:40 statement to say we don't have a problem.
10:09:42 82% rounded, you know, say 80%, we have 20% of our
10:09:46 dollars still going elsewhere.
10:09:48 Greg and I, you know, often talk about this Ford
10:09:54 vendor up in the panhandle that manages somehow to
10:09:57 sneak in a few cents less, a few pennies less and

10:10:02 beats our local vendor periodically.
10:10:04 We do it because it's low bid, as Charlie said.
10:10:07 That's the tradition for government is just low bid.
10:10:09 Okay?
10:10:10 And then Charlie -- he's not here but he says that's
10:10:15 in the best interest of our community, low bid.
10:10:17 But it might just be in the best interest of our
10:10:19 community, and you write the check, but when you look
10:10:23 at the bigger picture of what it is that our
10:10:25 government is supposed to be doing, we are not just
10:10:27 supposed to be looking at writing that check on that
10:10:29 given day and saving that $10 or $100 or that Ford.
10:10:34 If we look at the bigger picture and can keep that
10:10:37 money local, whether or not it's 36 million or 100
10:10:40 million, I made a mistake before, $36 million, that's
10:10:45 still a lot of money.
10:10:46 If we can keep it local, as they say, all ships will
10:10:50 rise, locally.
10:10:51 And that's not being protectionist and messing with
10:10:54 St. Petersburg, or that sort of thing, five counties
10:10:57 is a lot.
10:10:57 Okay.

10:10:58 And that's a big area.
10:11:00 And if we just stuck with that area, that would be
10:11:03 good.
10:11:04 Gwen, I want to clarify something.
10:11:05 I don't want you to be mislead by anything being
10:11:10 discussed here.
10:11:11 But there was a big usual you recently because we
10:11:13 awarded the museum contract to what I heard was
10:11:16 through the grapevine, awarded the museum contract to
10:11:19 the steel to an Alabama company, and they brought in
10:11:23 those Alabama folks.
10:11:25 Now, that's lovely, and maybe they'll stick around or
10:11:28 maybe they won't and they are spending money and that
10:11:30 sort of thing.
10:11:31 But I know we have a lot steel workers and a lot of
10:11:33 construction people here who could have used that
10:11:35 money, you know, to be hired locally.
10:11:39 With all due respect to Alabama, roll tide and all of
10:11:44 that, but it would have been nice if we had been able
10:11:47 to keep that with local vendors, with the local steel
10:11:50 company who we would have pretty sure known they were
10:11:53 going to hire local people.

10:11:55 That's just an example of what happens in this bid.
10:11:58 And I'm not suggesting that we automatically give
10:12:00 everything to the outside.
10:12:03 What I'm suggesting is if we have a 2% or 3%
10:12:07 preference, that just means that it bunches up that
10:12:09 local person's opportunity to compete on our local
10:12:12 business and it keeps the money locally.
10:12:14 So I just wanted to clarify some of the things so we
10:12:18 knew exactly and honed in exactly on what we were
10:12:21 talking about.
10:12:22 Charlie, I apologize for talking about you in your
10:12:24 absence but I'm sure you heard me on the microphone
10:12:26 out there.
10:12:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to hear from the
10:12:30 public if we could.
10:12:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, we'll get to the public.
10:12:34 Right now the board is engaged in a discussion.
10:12:36 And I want to hear from our colleagues, because under
10:12:38 the sunshine law we cannot talk individually.
10:12:41 So this is our time to talk, and we have set aside 30
10:12:44 minutes, where we will hear from the public.
10:12:46 Okay?

10:12:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
10:12:49 Then I would like to say if we look at something like
10:12:54 Famous Cake a local business as opposed to nationally
10:13:04 owned, all things being equal 2 to 3% I would rather
10:13:08 see those dollars stay in our community.
10:13:10 I subscribe to four newspapers.
10:13:12 Two are local, two are national.
10:13:14 The local dollars spent stay in our community.
10:13:17 And I think that as we continue this conversation, we
10:13:21 need to look at not just having an office here but
10:13:25 being owned here.
10:13:25 And I think that's a very important thing.
10:13:32 This offers a breadth of services.
10:13:34 This will not apply to many.
10:13:36 It will apply to some.
10:13:37 And I thought that the phrase that somebody used of
10:13:40 having our own local economic stimulus package is very
10:13:44 strategic.
10:13:44 And I think that that's the kind of thinking that
10:13:52 should inform our purchasing in these tough times.
10:13:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
10:13:57 I want to point out, number one, Chairman Scott, I

10:14:02 think that because the definition of a local business
10:14:08 includes such, you know, mega people as these big box
10:14:13 stores and huge companies, you can't just accept this
10:14:16 pie chart as showing that we are creating an even
10:14:23 playing field.
10:14:24 The reality is that our tax structure and our
10:14:29 Internet, the fact that we don't collect for Internet
10:14:32 sales, and this is something that I know this is a
10:14:35 state problem and a national problem, but there are so
10:14:40 many advantages to these large businesses who we are
10:14:42 actually treating as local businesses, that I don't
10:14:45 think there is not a problem.
10:14:47 I think it's worth looking at.
10:14:48 I think the fact that what Mr. Dingfelder pointed out,
10:14:51 that even a little bit more -- and I know we are going
10:14:56 to hear from this from the public -- and this is from
10:14:59 Carla Jimenez but maybe if I read this and she reads
10:15:04 it twice we'll remember.
10:15:05 And this is data from studies.
10:15:08 And this is my problem with what I'm hearing from the
10:15:12 City of Tampa staff, is that I don't see any data.
10:15:16 You can talk about disadvantages, advantages, I

10:15:19 haven't seen any numbers showing me that large, you
10:15:25 know, national employers hire more people.
10:15:28 First of all, I don't think those true.
10:15:30 Second of all, it doesn't take into account what
10:15:34 happens with that money, which goes right back out.
10:15:38 They don't even deposit it in Tampa.
10:15:40 It goes right back out to wherever, Delaware probably.
10:15:45 But from Carla, three times as much money stays in the
10:15:48 local economy, three times as much, when spent at
10:15:51 local independent businesses.
10:15:54 Rather than at national chains.
10:15:57 For every dollar spent locally, about 45 cents stays
10:16:01 in the local economy, while the same dollar spent in a
10:16:03 national chain only leaves about 13 cents here.
10:16:07 Up to 80% of money spent in national chains literally
10:16:11 leaves town in the night deposit.
10:16:14 So I think that is worth looking at.
10:16:16 And I don't think we need major changes.
10:16:18 I think maybe we just need to change the definition in
10:16:24 our SDE, or I don't remember the acronym, but business
10:16:30 preferences of what is local.
10:16:31 And that would be a huge step to building our economy,

10:16:35 recovering our local economy, and working with people
10:16:41 who are going to stay here, who are going to put their
10:16:45 money back into the local economy.
10:16:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think he would all agree that he
10:16:49 would want what's best for the community as a whole.
10:16:52 I think we understand that.
10:16:54 But also you have got to understand that we begin to
10:16:58 look at that.
10:16:59 Yes, do you your research.
10:17:01 Yes, there's data.
10:17:01 But you know what I found?
10:17:03 If I go to the position and get a study, go to another
10:17:08 study -- I mean, you have opinions all over the place.
10:17:11 I mean, could you almost justify everything you want
10:17:14 to do.
10:17:14 At the end of the day, what I want to know is, if you
10:17:20 enact a local preference, what are the repercussions
10:17:25 that's going to hurt those businesses when they go to
10:17:27 other communities?
10:17:28 That's the unknown.
10:17:32 If you are spending 82% where there's $100 million,
10:17:37 only 36 going out, how much are they getting from

10:17:40 other areas, because you don't have a local?
10:17:44 Those are the unknowns in my mind.
10:17:46 Then you have got to raise the question, okay, now
10:17:48 let's look at this.
10:17:51 From a legal standpoint, you have to look at Holland
10:17:54 and Knight.
10:17:56 They are a national organization.
10:17:58 Ruden McClosky.
10:18:00 All these law firms that you have got, but also got
10:18:04 office nationally.
10:18:06 What's going to be the impact?
10:18:12 And I'm just using those as examples, that's all.
10:18:15 Okay?
10:18:15 >>> Chairman Scott, just to comment on your two
10:18:20 comments.
10:18:21 And a lot of the areas where a local preference hasn't
10:18:26 been implemented there has been reciprocity, and they
10:18:29 bring jurisdiction to implement a local preference
10:18:33 program.
10:18:34 So you basically have the vendors who are competing
10:18:39 across boundaries, and increase on both sides so that
10:18:46 is one of the possible repercussions in implementing a

10:18:50 local preference program.
10:18:50 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to say, that is my point.
10:18:54 There is no data.
10:18:56 You are telling us this.
10:18:57 Show me the studies that say this.
10:18:58 And I think it's our responsibility, and especially
10:19:01 our economic development, and our purchasing people,
10:19:04 and our legal department, to look at the studies, and
10:19:07 judge which ones are right and which ones aren't.
10:19:10 I'm telling you that this is just what I grabbed from
10:19:14 my bed-side table.
10:19:17 The numbers are unequivocal.
10:19:19 And nobody is showing me even one study that proves
10:19:22 any of what you're saying anecdotally.
10:19:26 So, yes, show us the numbers.
10:19:27 If this is true, if we are going to put ourselves in a
10:19:30 bad situation in our local businesses, show me
10:19:34 something.
10:19:35 I mean, we haven't even had an example of it.
10:19:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I want to echo what
10:19:40 you said.
10:19:41 Retaliation is just a word.

10:19:47 Somewhere along the line it becomes a reality.
10:19:49 Are we saying then that pennies should close, WalMart
10:19:54 should close, Sears should close, Macy's should close?
10:19:57 Is that what we are saying, that no one should buy
10:20:00 there because they are not local?
10:20:01 Of course not.
10:20:06 So to start this, in this mode, would end up costing
10:20:11 the taxpayers of this city some moneys.
10:20:17 I do like to see local vendors get the jobs?
10:20:21 Of course.
10:20:22 All they have to do is be the lowest bidder, or
10:20:25 comparable bidder.
10:20:26 I shouldn't say lowest.
10:20:27 Comparable bidder.
10:20:29 At the same price.
10:20:32 And they are there.
10:20:38 We are in a position right now in this country where
10:20:40 no one -- I shouldn't say no one -- where some are
10:20:44 reluctant to spend money.
10:20:46 And the same people who got 350 billion bailout, the
10:20:53 banks, aren't lending.
10:20:56 They should go to jail, all of them, for giving your

10:21:01 money, bailout money, and only bailing out themselves,
10:21:04 not bailing out the public.
10:21:06 That has to change.
10:21:08 I'm not going to be part of a system that holds back,
10:21:14 and the losers are the people that are before me.
10:21:19 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:21:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:21:21 Okay.
10:21:22 We'll hear from the public.
10:21:24 Mr. Taub was trying to get up.
10:21:25 So we'll hear from the public and allow three minutes.
10:21:29 >>> Good morning, Mr. Chairman.
10:21:31 My name is Ted Taub.
10:21:35 We have been working on this for quite some time.
10:21:37 Let me try to shorten this.
10:21:39 The reason we asked for a continuance is because we
10:21:43 sensed that there was a need to have more one on one,
10:21:49 just as a legislative matter, to go through these
10:21:51 matters with council persons.
10:21:54 We prepared a pro forma ordinance.
10:21:56 We have given it to your city attorney.
10:22:00 We would like to pass that out with your permission.

10:22:04 Something for you to grind on.
10:22:05 It has reciprocity provisions in it.
10:22:08 And it's a starting point.
10:22:10 We put 8% in there.
10:22:11 Why?
10:22:12 Because when didn't know what would be appropriate.
10:22:14 We could always change that.
10:22:16 We have learned recently that Orange County has
10:22:18 enacted a similar ordinance.
10:22:19 Sarasota has.
10:22:21 We would like to take some of the studies that Mr.
10:22:24 Spearman has presented to you, talk to Mr. Spearman
10:22:27 more, and come back in 30 days or 60 days and have, I
10:22:31 think, a more useful dialogue.
10:22:34 So we don't ask you to buy our position carte blanche
10:22:39 this morning.
10:22:40 We just ask you for an opportunity to deal with it in
10:22:45 a very introspective way and we think some of these
10:22:48 studies are a little stale, a national outfit.
10:22:53 We will be glad to make those contacts with other
10:22:55 jurisdictions, talk to their city attorneys, talk to
10:22:58 their chairmen of their council or their commission,

10:23:01 try to get you some additional information.
10:23:03 Those all we are asking for this morning, if you would
10:23:07 accommodate us.
10:23:07 I think whatever you decide at the end of the day, you
10:23:11 will be satisfied.
10:23:12 You have really taken a look at this thing in-depth.
10:23:15 And those all we can ask for.
10:23:17 And that's all we do ask for.
10:23:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
10:23:21 Next speaker.
10:23:24 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Let's look at how this system works
10:23:27 first of all.
10:23:27 When you go out and you recruit businesses to come to
10:23:30 Tampa, those people that are recruiting come to you
10:23:34 and tell you it has an economic impact of two or three
10:23:37 times the dollar that is spent.
10:23:39 So when that business comes here, and then they pay
10:23:43 local taxes, they pay property taxes, they pay
10:23:46 inventory taxes, they pay sales taxes, they pay
10:23:49 vehicle registration taxes, they pay gas taxes, they
10:23:53 pay employment and insurances, and all of those
10:23:57 dollars go to support the local economy.

10:24:00 They also go to support when the city comes in and
10:24:03 asks you for increases in utility fees, for water and
10:24:06 sewer, they sell bonds, that when the demand for those
10:24:12 services goes down, they come back and they ask you
10:24:14 for increases in fees.
10:24:16 And the only way you sustain that is by supporting the
10:24:19 local growth, not outside growth.
10:24:23 And if somebody comes in here from wherever, Georgia,
10:24:27 Alabama, Texas, it doesn't matter, they are not paying
10:24:29 for the water and the sewer fees and all of the local
10:24:33 employment fees, all of the gas registration taxes
10:24:36 that go to support the roads and sidewalks that you
10:24:40 now build.
10:24:43 They are not paying that.
10:24:44 They are paying that in Birmingham or wherever they
10:24:45 are from.
10:24:46 But when you hire a local company, or when you support
10:24:49 a local company, that money is generating at least two
10:24:53 to three dollars per dollar spent.
10:24:56 And you are talking about using the SMSA which is the
10:25:00 Standard Metropolitan Statistical Area as the local
10:25:03 economy.

10:25:03 And that's fine.
10:25:05 But you are taking, at least the purchasing department
10:25:07 is taking a very narrow view of what sales and
10:25:10 purchases mean.
10:25:11 And you have also eliminated non-bid awards.
10:25:15 You go on the Internet sales and Internet services
10:25:18 that have no impact on the local economy.
10:25:22 They are taking money out of the local businesses and
10:25:25 sending it somewhere else.
10:25:26 The people that are buying advertising in the local
10:25:28 media, those are the local companies.
10:25:31 Those aren't national companies.
10:25:33 When you have the Tribune, St. Pete times struggling
10:25:36 to support themselves, because the advertising
10:25:38 revenues are down, they are down because the local
10:25:41 businesses can't support the revenue stream, and
10:25:44 everyone else is suffering.
10:25:46 So when you start looking at issues like collusion and
10:25:50 price fixing, it's because -- first of all I don't
10:25:54 think it happens, but local costs are driven by local
10:25:57 taxes.
10:25:59 So you can't on the one hand say you can't compete

10:26:02 because you have raised the water, sewer and all your
10:26:05 local taxes, and now that has to be incorporated into
10:26:08 the bid, and someone else in a smaller community
10:26:12 doesn't have the same tax baseline.
10:26:15 Let's assume that you have an economic impact
10:26:18 statement for local business.
10:26:19 You have to use the local purchasing numbers of at
10:26:22 least two to three times what's spent.
10:26:25 And that helps support the economy.
10:26:27 It helps support the City of Tampa.
10:26:29 That money is going right back into the general fund
10:26:32 that causes these city employees to be able to be
10:26:35 hired.
10:26:36 So when you start removing that, then you have
10:26:39 eliminated a source of income that the city is now
10:26:42 relying on.
10:26:44 Then what do you do?
10:26:45 You have to raise your property tax rate because you
10:26:47 can't get it from local businesses anymore.
10:26:49 And that again effects the local individual and local
10:26:51 business operation.
10:26:53 So I would strongly encourage you to look at, at least

10:26:56 a minimal, some type of percentage that would assist
10:26:59 with preference for local businesses.
10:27:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:27:14 >> My name is MaryAnn Farenc, and I am the
10:27:17 co-proprietor Mise en Place.
10:27:18 We are an independent local business that has been
10:27:18 around since 1986.
10:27:21 I am here as the president of the board of the Tampa
10:27:22 independent business alliance.
10:27:25 We are a member of the American independent business
10:27:28 alliance.
10:27:29 We have about 150 businesses locally and there are
10:27:31 about 60 chapters across the United States.
10:27:35 And there's about eight of our 20 advisory board
10:27:37 members that are here this morning.
10:27:39 And I really thank you so much for the opportunity to
10:27:43 speak and for this issue to be in front of council.
10:27:47 We as independent business owners think this economic
10:27:51 situation that we are in globally is a very exciting
10:27:54 time for local business, because there are a lot of
10:27:57 answers in local business, and I think as you see some
10:28:00 of the new studies and the new exploration and the

10:28:04 information that is out there, you will see that there
10:28:06 are great opportunities for all local communities,
10:28:08 Tampa included, from supporting independent business.
10:28:13 I would like to say we see this as an economic
10:28:15 development issue in addition to or as much as or more
10:28:20 so than just a procurement issue.
10:28:22 We are really talking about creating a community
10:28:24 culture, that the council and the city can really help
10:28:27 us to support.
10:28:30 Local is the answer to many issues that are facing
10:28:32 many communities.
10:28:33 And this is not really an ask for help and it is not
10:28:38 about against change.
10:28:40 There is a place for large big box stores.
10:28:42 There is a place for everyone.
10:28:43 We just want to make sure that we understand the place
10:28:46 for local independent businesses in our community, and
10:28:49 there just hasn't been enough information locally
10:28:52 about how important they are economically as well as
10:28:55 culturally.
10:28:56 I would like to take just a moment.
10:28:58 We talked about Super Bowl and the success and what it

10:29:00 brought to our community.
10:29:02 As far as the tourist market, keeping independent
10:29:05 businesses and that local flavor is important because
10:29:09 we want to go places and we want them to look
10:29:11 different than everywhere else.
10:29:12 So there's another sort of side way in which we serve
10:29:15 the community and have local economic impact.
10:29:19 As I mentioned and others have talked about, there is
10:29:21 a lot of new valid fascinating, encouraging
10:29:25 information available to us.
10:29:28 I would like to ask if -- as I said, we have, I
10:29:31 believe, eight folks here today.
10:29:33 I know we can each speak for three minutes.
10:29:35 There is so much information that we would like to ask
10:29:39 Carla JIMENEZ speak and a couple other folks that are
10:29:46 willing to do so would stand up and say that because
10:29:48 she has the greatest grasp on this information which I
10:29:51 think is critical for us as a community to understand
10:29:55 in order to make great decisions going forward.
10:29:57 So that is what I wanted to share this morning, and
10:30:01 Carla is going to come up and speak now and if she
10:30:04 could be allowed more than the three minutes I think

10:30:06 that would really benefit us.
10:30:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think we have a process that
10:30:09 addresses that, Mr. Shelby.
10:30:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The speaker waiver form,
10:30:14 Mr. Chairman, is for use during public hearings.
10:30:16 But if you wish to --
10:30:19 >> Move to waive the rules.
10:30:22 >> Second.
10:30:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How much time do you need?
10:30:25 The reason being is that we have another 9:00 that we
10:30:27 are behind on.
10:30:28 We have a 10:00.
10:30:29 We have an 11:00.
10:30:30 So how much time do you need?
10:30:33 Come to the mike.
10:30:40 You have five.
10:30:40 >> I'm Carla Jimenez.
10:30:44 I'm co-owner of the books, the only locally
10:30:47 independent book store.
10:30:48 I know the city doesn't buy a lot of books but I will
10:30:50 give council a very, very good price if you want to
10:30:53 buy those for staff.

10:30:55 I'm also on the national board of the American
10:30:57 independent business alliance.
10:30:58 I have been involved in this movement for at lowest
10:31:00 seven or eight years nationally and I'm sort of the
10:31:03 geek on the studies.
10:31:04 It makes sense that in 1987 there was a national
10:31:09 statement about procurement association to go against
10:31:12 what's being suggested today.
10:31:13 It also makes sense that in 2002 when the council last
10:31:16 talked about this, that there wasn't the kind of
10:31:19 support there is today for the studies that make it
10:31:22 really clear, because it's beginning in 2002 we had
10:31:26 the first economic impact analyses that absolutely
10:31:29 back up what we are saying.
10:31:30 Before that we had nothing but anecdotes and no one
10:31:33 listened so we went out, independent businesses went
10:31:36 out and paid for economic business studies.
10:31:38 They have been replicated now from Austin, Texas to
10:31:40 Maine to Chicago to San Francisco and many other
10:31:43 cities.
10:31:44 Every time the same conclusion comes up.
10:31:46 For every dollar spent locally, three times as much,

10:31:49 with a locally owned independent business, three times
10:31:52 as much stays in the local economy circulating over
10:31:54 and over again.
10:31:55 Because of the multiplier effect of repeated sales tax
10:32:00 collection, there's up to five times as much public
10:32:03 revenue which of course most of that goes to the state
10:32:06 but a good part comes back here.
10:32:07 And the state is also part of what, you know, we would
10:32:10 like to support.
10:32:12 Up to 80% of the money spent in national chains
10:32:15 literally leaves town in the overnight deposit.
10:32:18 This is including consideration of the number of jobs
10:32:21 that they have.
10:32:21 I think it's really pretty well-known, and I don't
10:32:23 have the exact figures on this, but the 75% or 80% of
10:32:27 the jobs in any locale are from locally owned
10:32:30 independent businesses or small businesses, how they
10:32:33 are defined.
10:32:33 So the jobs are really a red herring.
10:32:37 The bottom line is, yes, they pay property taxes as
10:32:40 the gentleman before mentioned, all those kind of
10:32:42 taxes, but the profits do not stay here.

10:32:45 Locally owned independent businesses, we live here, we
10:32:47 own home here's, our heels are dug in our children go
10:32:51 to public schools.
10:32:51 We vote.
10:32:52 Ever since the 1960s there have been studies that
10:32:54 have proven that communities can strong locally owned
10:33:00 independent businesses have large juvenile crime,
10:33:04 higher voter turnout, higher civic participation and
10:33:06 volunteerism, better safety nets, when there's a
10:33:10 crisis like a hurricane.
10:33:11 And not only that, but we give literally four times as
10:33:16 much money to local charities when you look at the
10:33:18 percentage of those as WalMart and twice as much as
10:33:22 the other national chains when you look at percentage
10:33:24 of growth.
10:33:25 We don't gross as much but what we keep stays here.
10:33:30 When awe reply those figures, those formulas to local
10:33:34 expenditures, I can show you that on an average
10:33:37 November day, the Department of Revenue figures, if
10:33:41 every penny on an average November day was spent in
10:33:43 locally independent businesses, not a single penny
10:33:46 with national chains, it would mean for the local

10:33:48 economy, $17 million for Hillsborough County.
10:33:53 Now of course this is just the city, and that is
10:33:55 November.
10:33:55 We do those figures in the fall during the holiday.
10:34:00 But, you know, I can just give you so much.
10:34:02 The most important study probably is September of
10:34:05 2008.
10:34:06 I hope you all still have open minds and can hear
10:34:08 this, because this is really key.
10:34:11 In the county that includes Grand Rapids, Michigan, a
10:34:14 study was done that showed that a 10% shift of money
10:34:18 that is currently going to national chains, if just
10:34:22 10% of that was shifted to locally owned independent
10:34:25 businesses, with their 600,000 population in that
10:34:29 county, it would create $140 million new local
10:34:33 economic activity, enough for 1600 six-figure jobs.
10:34:41 $53 million payroll is what they said.
10:34:43 I have the citations for each of these studies.
10:34:46 Someone said Carla says.
10:34:48 Well, Carla doesn't say.
10:34:49 Carla reads those books.
10:34:50 Carla subscribes to e-mails and looks at all the

10:34:53 studies.
10:34:54 And if there were studies that showed the opposite, I
10:34:56 would know them, too.
10:34:57 I would welcome anyone trying to come up with studies
10:34:59 that show the opposite.
10:35:00 I don't think they exist.
10:35:01 If they do, we need to be able to respond to them and
10:35:04 see them.
10:35:04 I don't think they are out there.
10:35:06 They are silent.
10:35:07 As a matter of fact, I was on a panel in November with
10:35:08 the head of the Florida retail federation, and the
10:35:11 professor who heads the University of Florida center
10:35:14 for retail studies.
10:35:15 I thought I was going to have to make these arguments.
10:35:18 And before I said anything, they both said
10:35:21 emphatically and repeatedly, in the current economic
10:35:25 crisis, the best place for citizens and municipalities
10:35:29 and everyone to spend money is with locally owned,
10:35:31 independent businesses.
10:35:33 It is the best thing for our recovery.
10:35:34 It is the best thing for all of our lives and our

10:35:37 quality of life and our community.
10:35:38 It's no longer just an anecdote.
10:35:40 It is absolutely established fact.
10:35:43 I think that one of the things we need to look at, I
10:35:46 could go through point by point the items in the
10:35:49 presentation, because I do believe that I have points
10:35:52 towards number one, two, four, five, seven, eight.
10:35:55 I have figures that can dispute the suggestions of the
10:35:59 disadvantages.
10:36:00 But I am not really into that today because I think
10:36:02 this is just the beginning of the discussion and
10:36:04 frankly, I think we need to hear more general
10:36:06 statements today.
10:36:07 I believe if the council has the will, the details can
10:36:10 be worked out.
10:36:11 I think the council has the opportunity to be leaders,
10:36:15 and leaders on a national level in the growing
10:36:19 local-first movement.
10:36:21 We aren't saying local only.
10:36:23 We are saying local first.
10:36:24 We are saying when you look for decisions, is there a
10:36:27 locally owned independent alternative?

10:36:29 If there is give them a chance.
10:36:30 Give them a chance.
10:36:31 Don't count them out.
10:36:33 At the end of this economic issue we are in now, when
10:36:37 we come out at the end of the recovery, I think we all
10:36:39 need to think about who do we want left standing? Do
10:36:42 we want left standing the big boxes that have paid and
10:36:47 are now empty, 300 WalMarts are empty in this country,
10:36:51 that are laying off from 2,000 miles away people they
10:36:54 never need to see in the grocery store, the big boxes
10:36:57 that take all of their profits out of our community
10:36:59 and up to 80% of all the money that goes through them,
10:37:02 that are getting tax advantages, that I could go into
10:37:06 but I am not going to today.
10:37:07 I would love to have a chance to talk about that at
10:37:09 another time.
10:37:10 Or do we want left standing the individual businesses,
10:37:12 the people who live here, who support each other, who
10:37:15 support us, who come out and vote, who volunteer and
10:37:18 who are not leaving, who are here forever.
10:37:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:37:22 >>> I think that might have covered most of way wanted

10:37:26 to say.
10:37:26 Thank you.
10:37:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public?
10:37:33 Anyone else, if you will come up, come forward at this
10:37:35 time, please.
10:37:39 >>> Lori Davis from Tampa T-shirts, another locally
10:37:44 owned business that has been in the community for 24
10:37:46 years, hanging in there.
10:37:48 I just want to say during all these talks and the
10:37:51 procurement issues and thinking about, this please
10:37:57 consider the big picture.
10:37:58 It's not just the cost of the item when you are doing
10:38:01 your procurement analysis, but it is the cost of
10:38:05 getting that item, and the big picture of everything
10:38:11 we talked about, where the money is going to go.
10:38:13 Especially, I know that since you service the public,
10:38:21 it's not just savoring money we are looking for.
10:38:23 We are also looking at saving our community, giving
10:38:26 jobs in our community, recycling that money through
10:38:29 our community.
10:38:29 So please look at that during all these issues.
10:38:32 Thank you.

10:38:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
10:38:36 Anyone else?
10:38:38 I guess my position would be if we want to look at
10:38:43 this, that we appoint some kind of task force or
10:38:45 commission that will look at the overall issue, the
10:38:50 pros and cons, and come back perhaps with a
10:38:52 recommendation.
10:38:52 Councilwoman Mulhern, then Saul-Sena.
10:38:56 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to follow up because I
10:38:58 have these numbers, some other numbers.
10:39:01 I like numbers.
10:39:05 And Carla didn't have a number.
10:39:07 But these statistics are from a national small
10:39:10 business association, and what they say -- and I have
10:39:14 been reading this for two years since I have been on
10:39:17 council, because I got this right when I started.
10:39:20 99.7% of all employer firms are small businesses.
10:39:30 So if you look at the big picture across this country,
10:39:33 it's the small businesses that are employing people.
10:39:37 They employ half of all private sector employees.
10:39:41 They pay 44% of all private payroll.
10:39:45 44% of the payroll for our jobs in this country come

10:39:48 from small businesses.
10:39:49 They generate 60 to 80% of net new jobs annually.
10:39:54 They create more than 50% of non-farm private-growth
10:39:59 domestic problem.
10:40:01 They employ 39% of high-tech workers such as
10:40:05 scientists, engineers and computer workers.
10:40:07 They make up 97% of all identified headquarters.
10:40:13 They total approximately 23 million in the United
10:40:16 States with roughly 75% of the firms having in
10:40:20 employees.
10:40:21 So really 23 million, 75% of our firms, are small
10:40:26 businesses that are actually a business of one.
10:40:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My suggestion, thank you,
10:40:34 Mr. Chairman, would be in the way that Mr. Dingfelder
10:40:36 did such a great job of leading the green ordinances,
10:40:39 Ms. Mulhern who is our budget chairman would pull
10:40:42 together a committee and come back to council with
10:40:44 recommendations.
10:40:48 You have been a leader in this and I would appreciate
10:40:50 your taking that.
10:40:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I would be happy to do that.
10:40:55 And I have the reading list right here to pass out for

10:40:57 anyone who wants to be on this committee.
10:41:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That would ab motion.
10:41:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I'm sorry, if that is a
10:41:07 motion, a direction of council, just a reminder, Mr.
10:41:11 Dingfelder and I learned very quickly is what you form
10:41:16 will be a sunshine committee and will be subject to
10:41:18 the open meetings law and the public records law.
10:41:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
10:41:26 I don't want to turn down any responsibility, but I
10:41:29 also was thinking at first, I don't know that we
10:41:31 really need a task force.
10:41:33 What we really need are for people to do some research
10:41:38 and some wreath reading and maybe come back in another
10:41:41 meeting and have some advice from our legal department
10:41:46 about whether we should go forward.
10:41:49 I'm happy to have meetings.
10:41:50 But I don't think that's needed.
10:41:53 I think what's needed is for the city to look at this
10:41:57 and give us their recommendations and the legal
10:42:00 department.
10:42:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, first of all, I wasn't going to
10:42:05 support the motion from this standpoint because right

10:42:07 now I think what John did, what councilman Dingfelder
10:42:10 sed was, we were all in support of a green ordinance.
10:42:14 Here we are not sure.
10:42:16 We hear varying opinions.
10:42:17 So for one person to have a committee for one side, my
10:42:19 position is, that's why I said a commission or a task
10:42:22 force, varied opinions to come back with a
10:42:25 recommendation.
10:42:25 Because you want to be balanced, you know.
10:42:27 I'm open.
10:42:28 But at the same time, I'm not sold on the idea.
10:42:31 Okay.
10:42:32 Because I have not heard enough information or have
10:42:35 enough data.
10:42:35 I know that we looked at the issue in 2002, and then
10:42:39 the community came forward and said, we don't want
10:42:41 this, okay.
10:42:42 That's what we heard from the community.
10:42:44 And so I'm saying, from my standpoint, I only have one
10:42:48 vote, is that we allow -- again I don't have a problem
10:42:53 with administration or whoever.
10:42:54 But at least you have a balance of pros and cons.

10:42:58 It's not a good debate.
10:43:01 If everybody is all agreeing.
10:43:03 I want to hear both sides.
10:43:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I agree with that philosophy.
10:43:10 Certainly those that are not here today have not
10:43:13 spoken to why or how, whatever they do in the City of
10:43:15 Tampa.
10:43:17 And does it really come to big businesses versus small
10:43:21 businesses?
10:43:22 Or is a small business somewhere else that they will
10:43:25 not be able to compete in this area?
10:43:27 I don't know.
10:43:28 And I agree with you, I think if you want to set up a
10:43:30 committee, it should not be from us, it should be from
10:43:33 independent business people, large and small, and come
10:43:37 together, and find out what this is all about.
10:43:41 With guidance from Mr. Spearman.
10:43:43 He has some numbers.
10:43:44 Let's discuss this.
10:43:45 I'm not in disagreement.
10:43:46 I don't think Mr. Spearman will sit here and give us
10:43:48 one, two, three, four, five, six sets of numbers that

10:43:54 are incorrect and variable of one degree of
10:43:57 difference.
10:43:57 So what I'm saying is these things will take much more
10:44:01 than one little discussion this morning.
10:44:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: On one of the Pinellas here, it
10:44:09 doesn't have a number, number three as used in this
10:44:13 section, there's a saying here that if a person
10:44:15 doesn't have an occupational license, six months prior
10:44:18 to the bid, I don't think that's fair.
10:44:21 If a guy wants to bid, he doesn't need an occupational
10:44:24 license.
10:44:25 It may be a professional who works somewhere else who
10:44:28 just moved here, and before he can bid, he may be the
10:44:32 best bidder.
10:44:33 I don't think we should preclude -- exclude him.
10:44:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess at this point I'm looking
10:44:45 for --
10:44:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I can make another motion.
10:44:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, hear my thoughts.
10:44:50 I guess I'm looking at this point a committee or
10:44:52 commission or task force varying opinions that could
10:44:56 be convened, and bring back a recommendation based on

10:44:59 their study and their findings.
10:45:04 Do you hear what I'm saying?
10:45:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes, definitely need that.
10:45:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move that -- I'm concerned about
10:45:11 doing something in a relatively timely way and I know
10:45:14 that sometimes we ask the administration to look at
10:45:17 something it takes six months before they convene.
10:45:19 I would like to ask Mr. Spearman to convene people,
10:45:22 when they had the tree committee we called them the
10:45:24 green and the non-green, the independent businesses
10:45:27 and the non-independent businesses.
10:45:29 But with a variety of people, a variety of people
10:45:35 within the next 30 days to meet and come back and to
10:45:38 meet twice in the next 60 days and come back to
10:45:41 council in 60 days on our workshop day with a
10:45:44 recommendation, or at least what we did on the tree
10:45:47 committee is we had a body of things that we agreed
10:45:49 on, and then things that we didn't disagree -- that we
10:45:53 couldn't agree on.
10:45:54 So I think 60 days you should be able to come up with
10:45:57 something.
10:45:57 And to start with looking at other Florida communities

10:46:00 that have successfully implemented this and look at
10:46:04 how they are doing with it.
10:46:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I thought if council wanted to appoint
10:46:14 a person to start, too.
10:46:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I know I have spoken
10:46:18 twice but very quickly.
10:46:19 Am I to say then realizing what we are talking about
10:46:22 that all the development that's happened in Tampa,
10:46:26 which most of it has never been a local owner,
10:46:28 somebody who comes in and rezones a property to build
10:46:31 a high-rise or help out with the renovation of Hyde
10:46:33 Park, that we are going to say, sorry, we don't need
10:46:36 you right now?
10:46:40 I'm saying, is that where we are heading?
10:46:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
10:46:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I wanted to make sure.
10:46:45 Are we saying then that if you have a pro football
10:46:49 team or baseball team you have to have local
10:46:51 participation?
10:46:52 How far are we going to go with this thing?
10:46:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You're not understanding.
10:46:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand very clearly where you

10:46:56 are coming from.
10:46:57 >> No, you don't.
10:46:58 >>> Yes, it political.
10:46:59 Oh, yes I do.
10:47:00 I may look stupid but there's a brain in here.
10:47:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:47:05 Yes.
10:47:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A reminder.
10:47:09 And of course it's whatever council wishes.
10:47:11 If the motion is to request Mr. Spearman to form a
10:47:15 fact finding committee to bring back information to
10:47:17 council, that's not a public, a sunshine board, if
10:47:22 council wants specific recommendations and charges or
10:47:26 if council wants to appoint each member to serve for
10:47:28 that purpose, that could open to be a sunshine.
10:47:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I was only concerned from this
10:47:35 standpoint that Mr. Spearman represents
10:47:37 administration, and I don't have a problem with that.
10:47:40 I don't have a problem with that.
10:47:42 But the issue is very clearly that you want to make
10:47:46 sure that you have an open view, that will bring back
10:47:49 to you a recommendation that is balanced.

10:47:52 Now, based on the presentation from this morning, it's
10:47:55 clear to me Mr. Spearman is in support of no local
10:47:59 preference.
10:47:59 So -- listen, folks, I'm just straight.
10:48:02 I'm just straight, that's all.
10:48:04 Straight.
10:48:05 That's all.
10:48:06 Do what you want to do now.
10:48:08 If you want to move this, I don't have a problem with
10:48:11 Mr. Spearman.
10:48:12 I don't have a problem.
10:48:13 But I'm just making some things obvious.
10:48:17 Okay, yes.
10:48:18 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a question on the motion.
10:48:20 Now this committee, they are going to meet to try to
10:48:22 keep everything locally?
10:48:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, no, no.
10:48:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Like Mr. Spearman says, we have 82%.
10:48:31 What are you going to do?
10:48:33 You want to bring it to 100 percent?
10:48:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I withdraw my motion.
10:48:36 It's being completely misconstrued.

10:48:38 I think we need another workshop in 60 days and we
10:48:44 read Mary's book.
10:48:46 The recommendation is we put this on the workshop
10:48:50 agenda in 60 days.
10:48:51 >>MARY MULHERN: I agree with Linda.
10:48:53 I think we have had a lot of discussion today.
10:48:59 There's plenty of work for all of us to do some
10:49:01 research and study and listen to our constituents, who
10:49:04 I am sure we are going to all hear from and workshop
10:49:08 this again if we want to continue this discussion.
10:49:10 I would second Linda's motion.
10:49:12 I also want to point out that, you know, one thing
10:49:15 I've learned, and I hope that you all take this
10:49:21 seriously, the last task force, advisory committee,
10:49:27 that I put together as finance chair last year, came
10:49:31 and made recommendations, which I was the only council
10:49:34 person who supported it.
10:49:36 So I'm not making any judgments but I just want people
10:49:41 to know if we are all going to appoint somebody to be
10:49:43 on this committee, it doesn't mean that that's going
10:49:46 to really influence.
10:49:47 And I'm not saying it should influence what decisions

10:49:51 we make at council.
10:49:52 But I'm just not sure that's really an effective way
10:49:56 for our local businesses, who I actually think are --
10:50:01 we have Tampa independent business association.
10:50:06 They are a trade association.
10:50:07 And they have given us a lot to study.
10:50:11 And I think that already exists.
10:50:13 I mean, I don't think Sam Walton is going to come and
10:50:16 be on my task force, my other task force.
10:50:20 I would rather just see us work, you know, have
10:50:23 another workshop.
10:50:24 What did you say, six months?
10:50:27 60 days, yes.
10:50:28 Because we are in an economic crisis.
10:50:30 And I hear from a friend or family member every day
10:50:34 who lost their job.
10:50:35 So I foal like we have a local responsibility to
10:50:40 figure out ways to save some jobs in Tampa.
10:50:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your motion again.
10:50:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
10:50:49 City Council has a workshop session scheduled for
10:50:52 April 23rd.

10:50:53 So I would like to put this on for 11:00 on April
10:50:56 23rd.
10:50:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Now the question becomes, are we going
10:51:02 to have a workshop and do what?
10:51:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We are going to all have an
10:51:06 opportunity to look at Mr. Taub's information,
10:51:09 hopefully get additional informing on what other
10:51:11 communities in Florida have done to read some of the
10:51:13 books that have been recommended, so we'll be a much
10:51:15 more informed group when we convene on the 23rd.
10:51:20 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to hear from legal, from
10:51:25 economic development, and some answers from Mr.
10:51:29 Spearman, at least to my question, as far as what our
10:51:32 definitions are of local businesses, and maybe this is
10:51:37 from legal to tell us whether we could adjust that so
10:51:42 that we actually are helping support small local
10:51:47 businesses as opposed to branches and chain stores.
10:51:53 >> Hampton, Massachusetts.
10:51:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I am not going to support the motion.
10:51:57 I am going to tell you right off front.
10:51:58 I don't support the motion of coming back in 30 or 60
10:52:01 days to hear the same thing.

10:52:04 I think it's feasible.
10:52:06 I think it's good to appoint someone, or if you want
10:52:08 to get with Mr. Spearman, get divergent opinions to
10:52:12 meet and talk about the issues, making headway.
10:52:15 Okay?
10:52:18 Now, Councilwoman Mulhern, when we appointed the
10:52:20 budget committee, the problem was they only met a
10:52:22 short period of time and they came and recommended
10:52:25 that we go into the reserves, which was not practical.
10:52:29 So that was the issue with that.
10:52:31 So I want to say that I'm open.
10:52:36 I'm open to hearing varying opinions and
10:52:44 recommendations to come back to council.
10:52:45 So that's the motion on the floor.
10:52:46 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Can I speak on the motion?
10:52:48 >> Yes.
10:52:49 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Spearman, can I ask you a
10:52:51 question, please?
10:52:53 About four months ago we had a meeting with Mr.
10:52:56 Darrell Smith in reference to the Tampa auction house
10:53:00 out on 301.
10:53:01 Remember that?

10:53:03 >>GREG SPEARMAN: That's correct.
10:53:04 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: And your preference was to go
10:53:06 with an Internet salesperson who really doesn't have
10:53:09 anything but a computer where people send their
10:53:13 pictures of their equipment, a description of their
10:53:16 equipment, it could be some guy from Akron, Ohio,
10:53:22 applying this.
10:53:23 So now what you are presenting here is contrary to
10:53:26 what we did in our meeting, because we excluded a
10:53:30 local vendor who has been here for 20-something years,
10:53:34 creating a lot of jobs.
10:53:36 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Well, there is a difference,
10:53:38 councilman Caetano.
10:53:39 I would like to explain that.
10:53:40 In this case we are generating additional revenue to
10:53:42 the city.
10:53:43 In the case of the local preference we are talking
10:53:45 about expenditure of city dollars.
10:53:49 There is a distinction.
10:53:50 >> Well, the distinction is, this gentleman that runs
10:53:53 the local auction house lives here, spends his money
10:53:57 here, I don't think he sends his surplus money to some

10:54:01 bank in Delaware.
10:54:03 Okay?
10:54:04 >>> We are generating significantly more revenue to
10:54:07 the city's coffers.
10:54:09 >> Is this going to exclude this company from working
10:54:12 with the city under the local preference law?
10:54:14 >>GREG SPEARMAN: I think the two issues are totally
10:54:16 separate and different.
10:54:19 I don't think we can compare them because they are not
10:54:21 the same thing.
10:54:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, the motion on the floor made by
10:54:26 Councilwoman Saul-Sena and seconded by Councilwoman
10:54:30 Mulhern that we have a workshop in our April meeting,
10:54:34 continue this workshop, that's what you are doing,
10:54:36 continue this workshop to the April workshop time
10:54:39 frame.
10:54:39 Okay?
10:54:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe Mrs. Saul-Sena had
10:54:43 mentioned 11:00.
10:54:45 I should point out you have a 9:00 presentation for
10:54:47 police Officer of the Month, firefighter of the
10:54:49 quarter, then a workshop, six-month revenue report

10:54:52 overview.
10:54:53 I suspect that should not all three take more than an
10:54:57 hour.
10:54:57 10:00?
10:54:58 Thank you.
10:54:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: On the motion.
10:55:01 I was listening in the back.
10:55:03 Greg, real quick question.
10:55:06 Not a substantive question.
10:55:07 A question on the motion.
10:55:12 Between now and 60 days, I would even like to see 90
10:55:16 days because I think there's a lot of massaging to do.
10:55:23 Mr. Chairman, could we -- Greg, could you possibly,
10:55:28 not at our direction, because if we did it at our
10:55:30 direction, it throws in the sunshine and committee
10:55:33 things and, Marty, I saw firsthand what happened.
10:55:38 But just on your own volition, is it possible that in
10:55:42 this 90-day period that could you get with Mr. Taub,
10:55:46 get with other people in the business community, get
10:55:47 with Greg Hart an his people in the minority small
10:55:51 business community, just like Cindy does when she
10:55:54 gathers folks in the community on these relevant

10:55:56 issues, and I'm sure you do it, too, but can you get
10:55:59 with the community and in a very level way, not
10:56:03 leaning your way or Ted's way but just in a very level
10:56:06 way, and gather up all the input, and then come back
10:56:10 in 90 days?
10:56:11 Because I think that's sort of a hybrid of where
10:56:14 Mr. Chairman was going and where Mrs. Saul-Sena was
10:56:17 going, and I would be happy happier with that one
10:56:19 S.that a possibility?
10:56:21 >>> That sounds like a reasonable request, councilman
10:56:25 Dingfelder.
10:56:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll amend the motion as a friendly
10:56:31 amendment.
10:56:31 It's not a direction to Mr. Spearman.
10:56:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So on May 28th at 10:00.
10:56:38 >>GWEN MILLER: The motion to have a workshop?
10:56:42 >> They will bring back information or recommendation.
10:56:45 Right?
10:56:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A reminder that you have scheduled
10:56:51 for May 28th a budget workshop.
10:56:53 Budget workshop at 9 a.m.
10:56:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: He would be requesting 90 days instead

10:57:00 of 60 days.
10:57:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: May 28th, you only have
10:57:06 commendation for police Officer of the Month and a
10:57:08 budget workshop to review the property tax proposal.
10:57:11 That's on the agenda.
10:57:12 I believe that was set by the Finance Committee.
10:57:17 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
10:57:18 I think those meetings, the budget meetings, take
10:57:22 quite awhile.
10:57:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 11.
10:57:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 11.
10:57:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am reluctantly not going to
10:57:34 support the motion.
10:57:35 I'll tell you why.
10:57:35 At the end of the day you are going to have the same
10:57:39 or most of the same on one side and those that are not
10:57:44 the same on the other side and come back at the end of
10:57:46 the day and have the same discussions that we have
10:57:50 now.
10:57:50 You have a city that is, like all cities in the
10:57:54 country have, a decrease in revenues, and an increase
10:57:57 in costs of items that it needs, and we are going to

10:58:01 burden the taxpayers with additional costs, and
10:58:04 therefore I am not going to support any more motions
10:58:07 on this item.
10:58:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion on the floor, and the
10:58:11 motion as I understand is that Mr. Spearman will
10:58:16 gather together the varying opinions to discuss this
10:58:18 issue and come back in our workshop format with a
10:58:21 recommendation.
10:58:24 Am I understanding the motion, council?
10:58:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The other part of it is that we
10:58:29 will all do our homework and read some of these books.
10:58:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, that cannot be a part of the
10:58:34 motion.
10:58:36 [ Laughter ]
10:58:39 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to come back and hear the
10:58:41 findings, and not have a workshop.
10:58:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, we are having a workshop.
10:58:45 It's a workshop day.
10:58:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the point, though, is that Mr.
10:58:51 Spearman will gather more information and input from
10:58:54 the community, and then bring forth, I'm assuming,
10:58:57 some type of recommendation after consulting or

10:59:01 pulling together Mr. Taub and the other independent
10:59:05 business groups.
10:59:05 That's what I'm hoping is going to happen, and allow
10:59:09 everybody to have dialogue and then come back before
10:59:12 council and say, this is what we did, this is the
10:59:15 resources we looked at, this is our finding, and this
10:59:18 is what we recommend to council at this time.
10:59:25 >> That's what I'm hoping.
10:59:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And scheduling it for eleven makes
10:59:30 it self-limiting to be one hour.
10:59:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I just want to be clear that -- now I
10:59:37 need to hear from Mr. Fletcher to make sure that legal
10:59:39 is also involved.
10:59:40 Mr. Fletcher, legally to be involved in this process.
10:59:44 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We will be.
10:59:46 And as you might imagine, we will do what we can do
10:59:50 here if it is council's desire to go forward on this
10:59:53 issue, we will endeavor to assist staff in coming up
10:59:57 with as defensible a product as we can.
11:00:03 You should know, though, that you don't get
11:00:05 challenged, and there is a risk here.
11:00:08 That's not to say we can't try to craft something that

11:00:11 is consistent with the current case law, but I can't
11:00:15 promise you that it won't be challenged.
11:00:19 That would be my only comment at this point until we
11:00:21 get a direction as to how we want to do this.
11:00:23 There are a variety of different ways to go forward.
11:00:25 If council desires to go forward at all.
11:00:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And I never oppose to gather more
11:00:33 information.
11:00:35 Never.
11:00:38 That doesn't say I vote for it or against it.
11:00:42 I'm never opposed to getting more information to be
11:00:44 more informed.
11:00:45 There's a motion.
11:00:45 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:00:48 Opposes?
11:00:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Aye.
11:00:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:00:53 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda voting no.
11:01:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:01:08 Council, we have the 11:00 workshop.
11:01:12 Then we have this 9:00.
11:01:15 The issue on the incentives, how long is that going to

11:01:19 take?
11:01:19 >>> I have a ten-minute PowerPoint presentation.
11:01:28 And then I am here to answer your questions.
11:01:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's do that.
11:01:31 And then, council, I suggest that we spend as less
11:01:36 time as possible on this PowerPoint and presentation,
11:01:38 these illegal signs, I don't know what that's about.
11:01:42 But I am trying to get to the 11:00.
11:01:45 Can we defer that?
11:01:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Throws no urgency on it.
11:01:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can we defer that?
11:01:52 Let's take that up after the 11:00.
11:01:55 And let's see how much time is left.
11:01:56 Okay.
11:02:01 >>MARK HUEY: Economic development, administrator for
11:02:03 the City of Tampa.
11:02:05 Our topic in this workshop is to discuss economic
11:02:09 development, incentives and programs, as they relate
11:02:12 to large companies versus small companies.
11:02:15 I know this workshop was set many months ago, before
11:02:19 the difficult economic times that we are in.
11:02:23 And certainly these times remind us how important the

11:02:27 work we are about to talk about is for our citizens.
11:02:30 In terms of the work that we do to bring jobs and to
11:02:33 create a positive business climate in our community.
11:02:35 And with that I want to thank each of you for the work
11:02:38 that you do in supporting these efforts.
11:02:43 To a person, 100 percent, you are always supportive of
11:02:46 initiatives to bring jobs and create a positive
11:02:49 business climate here, and that is very much
11:02:51 appreciated.
11:02:53 So with that I would like to bring up the PowerPoint
11:02:55 presentation.
11:02:56 This workshop came about as a result of various
11:03:07 discussions as a council and CRA about business
11:03:08 attraction and -- and what we do to attract
11:03:12 businesses, what we do to support small business
11:03:15 development and about retail development as well.
11:03:17 And so I am going to try and address all three of
11:03:20 those topics through my comments, and I'll start with
11:03:24 business attraction.
11:03:27 We have a lot of partners that we work with to bring
11:03:37 jobs to our community.
11:03:38 We don't do it unilaterally.

11:03:40 I put some of those partners on this PowerPoint.
11:03:42 But I couldn't put them all.
11:03:44 We work with, in addition to these, the county, the
11:03:49 committee of 100 of the Tampa chamber, the Tampa
11:03:52 partnership enterprise Florida.
11:03:54 We work with USF, the workforce alliance, the school
11:03:58 system, Tampa Bay high tech corridor, Tampa Bay
11:04:03 technology.
11:04:04 There are many, many groups and institutions who
11:04:09 support our job growth efforts.
11:04:16 Our job growth efforts are primarily conducted under
11:04:19 than the auspices of programs administered by the
11:04:21 state.
11:04:22 Again I have highlighted here a few of the programs.
11:04:24 There are more programs than I could ever highlight,
11:04:29 qualified targeted industry, tax refund, capital
11:04:32 investment tax credit program, high impact performance
11:04:35 incentive grants, governor's closing fund.
11:04:38 There are training programs.
11:04:41 There is transportation funds that allows for road
11:04:44 improvements to assist employers coming into our area.
11:04:50 All of these programs have certain things in common

11:04:52 generally.
11:04:53 And I'll use the qualified targeted industry program
11:04:56 as an example.
11:04:59 First of all, you should know it is only available to
11:05:02 certain targeted industries.
11:05:04 And I'll share with you some examples of that.
11:05:06 These are industries that our state has designated in
11:05:10 collaboration with local communities as the types of
11:05:13 industry best positioned to position our community in
11:05:19 the state for strong economic growth.
11:05:22 All of the projects have to meet a "but for" test and
11:05:29 that means we are in competition for these jobs and
11:05:33 with the company for other jobs and other communities
11:05:36 outside the State of Florida and but for the
11:05:39 availability of these incentives that company will not
11:05:41 come here.
11:05:41 And there's a very formal affidavit process that the
11:05:45 companies who receive these incentives GOP through to
11:05:49 verify that "but for" test.
11:05:54 They are basically based on the quality of jobs
11:05:57 coming, the amount of the salary, and the capital
11:05:59 investment that a company is bringing to the

11:06:01 community.
11:06:06 Significantly all of the agreements that support these
11:06:09 programs are performance based.
11:06:10 If the jobs aren't created and if the investment
11:06:12 doesn't occur, the incentives aren't provided.
11:06:15 And because they are paid out over a number of years,
11:06:19 there is a significant accountability process that is
11:06:22 in place to ensure the commitment that companies make
11:06:26 during the incentive period, are maintained.
11:06:30 One thing that I didn't note on this slide but can
11:06:33 also affect the amount of incentives provided.
11:06:36 I'll touch on this a little more later, is geographic
11:06:39 base.
11:06:41 The incentives can vary depending on whether a company
11:06:44 is in an enterprise zone area, which is economically
11:06:47 disadvantaged part of our community, or field area.
11:06:51 So that's a little bit of an overview.
11:06:54 Here is some information, some examples of targeted
11:06:58 industries that our state programs support, and you
11:07:02 can see a wide variety.
11:07:05 Again these are industry clusters that the state
11:07:08 believes can best support our economic growth in the

11:07:12 future.
11:07:15 And can provide high paying jobs for citizens.
11:07:18 Let me give you an example of one such project that
11:07:20 occurred in our area.
11:07:23 Depository Trust and Clearing Corporation.
11:07:26 This is a company that came to our area in 2004.
11:07:31 They are essentially a world leader, in transactions,
11:07:37 stocks, bonds, mutual fund transactions.
11:07:40 They came to our community to create 500 jobs with an
11:07:45 average salary in excess of $70,000.
11:07:48 And they committed to invest $35 million in property
11:07:53 and equipment, to trace some of the revenue streams
11:07:57 that you heard about earlier for the city, and our
11:08:00 community.
11:08:01 The incentives that the city provided are listed
11:08:03 there.
11:08:04 These again are all part of the state's programs that
11:08:07 we participate in.
11:08:09 And you can see the state is the primary funder of the
11:08:13 incentives.
11:08:14 The city participants with our county partners in
11:08:17 providing a local match.

11:08:19 And the general principle I can share with you in
11:08:22 terms of the value of the incentives that the city
11:08:25 provides in this case, and in these very high profile
11:08:30 incentivized job-creating project is that we are
11:08:34 sharing with them roughly half of the direct revenues
11:08:38 that they are going to bring into the city over a
11:08:40 period of time of five to ten years.
11:08:43 So that's the principle at play.
11:08:45 It's a sharing of the direct revenues that they are
11:08:47 bringing to our city.
11:08:48 We also help them with expedited zoning.
11:08:55 We have more recently -- this is one example -- we did
11:08:59 a package for INTUGENT, the partnership between
11:09:08 Moffitt and MERCK, just south of the USF campus.
11:09:10 We did one recently for Pegasus, a smaller company
11:09:14 giving us 28 jobs.
11:09:15 And you might recall last year PEMCO came in to take
11:09:20 the U.S. air hangar at Tampa International Airport and
11:09:23 bring 400 jobs there and we provided incentives for
11:09:26 that.
11:09:26 So those are examples of what we do for larger
11:09:31 companies, and we don't get these opportunities very

11:09:34 often to bring these quality of jobs into our
11:09:37 community.
11:09:38 And as you can imagine when you can bring this level
11:09:40 of jobs, the ripple impact.
11:09:43 These are jobs where the folks are going to patronize
11:09:46 the independent businesses here in our community as
11:09:49 well as the real estate community, all sorts of
11:09:52 businesses.
11:09:53 So we look forward to working on those opportunities,
11:09:57 and you as a council have always been very supportive.
11:10:00 Let's talk about small businesses, and small business
11:10:02 development.
11:10:03 Again, we work very collaboratively with many partners
11:10:09 and I could not put them all on a single page, it's
11:10:12 highlighted here, of course, the city, the county, the
11:10:14 Tampa Chamber of Commerce, and many other chambers of
11:10:18 commerce, the state, the Community Redevelopment
11:10:19 Agency is engaged in supporting small business.
11:10:24 USF connect is a partnership that accesses university
11:10:28 resources on behalf of entrepreneurs and businesses in
11:10:31 our community.
11:10:33 TEDCO and BBIC, Tampa economic development company,

11:10:38 black business investment company, provides small
11:10:39 business loans.
11:10:41 The federal government through the Small Business
11:10:42 Administration has many, many programs to support
11:10:46 small businesses here locally.
11:10:49 So many programs, and including efforts like the Tampa
11:10:53 independent business alliance here, their work to
11:10:57 promote local businesses.
11:10:59 It's part of the network, and as Mary had shared
11:11:02 earlier, for my perspective, there's no question that
11:11:05 small businesses drive our economy.
11:11:08 And the statistics you shared are right on.
11:11:12 And we appreciate all those small business
11:11:17 entrepreneurs around our community.
11:11:18 What type of incentives are available?
11:11:20 Again too many to list.
11:11:22 I have simply list add few of the programs here.
11:11:26 Florida enter provides zone, brownfield funds.
11:11:28 We have put in place through your leadership, no
11:11:31 transportation impact zones, foreign trade zones,
11:11:36 there are many, many different vehicles.
11:11:38 Most recently we are looking at using tiff resources

11:11:41 to help with facade improvement programs, to support
11:11:44 small businesses.
11:11:47 So many, many ways that small business can be
11:11:51 incentivized.
11:11:52 I'll give you one example.
11:11:53 And I appreciate everything Lori Davis here.
11:11:56 Is Lori still here?
11:11:57 She had to leave?
11:12:01 We love Lori and Juan Davis, the owners of Fast Lane
11:12:08 clothing, and as you know they came into East Tampa in
11:12:10 2005, and has put a great business in place there, and
11:12:14 Juan is a member of your advisory committee in East
11:12:18 Tampa CRA.
11:12:20 Their business, they came in and invested a million
11:12:27 dollars to create a new company in East Tampa, or move
11:12:31 their company into East Tampa, and in addition to
11:12:33 that, invested in building a knew building, they
11:12:36 promised to employ seven employees from East Tampa.
11:12:40 We have supported them with a variety of incentives
11:12:42 that are listed there.
11:12:47 We provided an EPA investment grant.
11:12:51 We provided the land for your business and the

11:12:53 deferred payment loan associated with that.
11:12:56 Transportation impact fees were waived.
11:12:58 And today I think they earned enterprise zone tax
11:13:02 credits around $7,000.
11:13:05 So you can see how incentives can be layered to help a
11:13:08 small business.
11:13:13 And we have done a great job getting their business up
11:13:15 and running.
11:13:16 You can see some of the photographs.
11:13:18 Beautiful facility.
11:13:19 And a real asset to the community.
11:13:25 In addition to making available these types of
11:13:29 incentive programs -- I just have a few more slides --
11:13:33 the city supports small businesses by trying to
11:13:35 provide training.
11:13:36 And we have a partnership.
11:13:38 We provide $100,000 in CDBG funding for the small
11:13:42 business information center.
11:13:44 And as part of that, they have committed to help
11:13:47 target businesses in East Tampa.
11:13:49 And this slide, I know there's a lot on there, but
11:13:52 this is the boundary loins of the map of East Tampa.

11:13:55 And the green dots are businesses within East Tampa
11:13:59 that benefited from the services, over 426 existing
11:14:06 clients.
11:14:06 The red businesses are new businesses that we hope to
11:14:09 target through those services.
11:14:10 Earlier this morning, you heard about our small local
11:14:14 business enterprise initiative.
11:14:16 It's an initiative here within the city to make sure
11:14:20 that city procurement opportunities are made available
11:14:23 to small local businesses.
11:14:26 And Gregory Hart is here who administrators that
11:14:29 program.
11:14:30 There are currently 317 local registered businesses in
11:14:33 that program.
11:14:34 And over the last 18 months, those businesses,
11:14:40 representatives, have been awarded $1.2 million in
11:14:43 city contracts.
11:14:45 The last topic I have is the topic of retail
11:14:49 development, which came up in these conversations.
11:14:53 And I wanted to let you know that the city does not
11:14:55 have a retail incentive program.
11:14:59 We have not incented retail in the past, except in the

11:15:02 case of a major redevelopment project like Centro Ybor
11:15:08 where there was a Kash N' Karry that was done through
11:15:10 a section 108 loan in East Tampa many, many years ago.
11:15:14 There are situations, though, that we are open to, in
11:15:18 our redevelopment areas, where we have had discussions
11:15:21 about incenting particular strategic row tailers in
11:15:25 our CRAs and we'll continue to pursue those
11:15:27 discussions.
11:15:29 And beyond that, last year, you might be aware that in
11:15:35 Ybor City we hosted a training session.
11:15:37 We had about 20 retailers in Ybor City participate in
11:15:40 that.
11:15:41 And that was done by YCDC.
11:15:45 He would looked for other opportunities to support
11:15:47 small businesses.
11:15:49 I have recently learned in the last week that the
11:15:52 State of Florida, the Florida chamber, the Florida
11:15:55 retail federation, the Tampa chamber, the Brandon
11:15:58 Chamber of Commerce, chambers across the state, are
11:16:01 getting ready to roll out a community awareness
11:16:04 campaign called backyard economics.
11:16:08 And that is a consumer awareness campaign, to let

11:16:12 consumers know some of the information you heard in
11:16:14 the previous work session, and so we are looking
11:16:16 forward to engaging as many of our local chambers and
11:16:20 organizations to create a platform for that program to
11:16:24 unfold in our community.
11:16:27 Other things on the -- the last two slides here.
11:16:33 Just updates on things looking ahead, as it relates to
11:16:36 job growth.
11:16:38 Most recently the state program that I talked about
11:16:43 have been enhanced to attract clean energy sector
11:16:47 companies to our community, and renewable energy
11:16:50 companies.
11:16:50 I think we have seen more and more of that kind of
11:16:52 prospect activity occurring in our city, and I hope
11:16:55 some of those deals will happen.
11:16:58 Secondly, we are looking forward, in these slower
11:17:03 economic times, to doing more to educate local
11:17:06 businesses regarding the availability of some of the
11:17:08 incentive programs that we talked about.
11:17:11 And we are also very active.
11:17:15 Our key strategic partner in job development is the
11:17:18 committee of 100, and we are very involved with them

11:17:21 and helping reshape their direction and we are excited
11:17:25 about that.
11:17:26 All of the information that I have shared can be
11:17:30 obtained from our City of Tampa web site, more details
11:17:33 about it.
11:17:33 And I thank you for your attention.
11:17:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
11:17:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Great presentation, Mr. Huey, very
11:17:40 important question.
11:17:41 Is the city considering, would you consider, creating
11:17:44 sort of an ombudsman for new businesses to help them
11:17:48 through the city's regulatory landscape?
11:17:51 There was a very damning article in last week's
11:17:56 newspaper about some restaurants that said it was
11:17:59 really very difficult.
11:18:00 I heard -- we all heard.
11:18:02 The point is people need help.
11:18:03 The city is arcane sometimes in our rules do. We have
11:18:10 an ombudsman or could you play that role and could you
11:18:13 step it up to make it easier in these hard times?
11:18:16 >>> Yes, I'm familiar with the article and that
11:18:18 report, and I can tell you that, yes, we don't want to

11:18:21 have that kind of environment with the city.
11:18:24 I can tell you, Thom Snelling has played a critical
11:18:31 role as sort of ombudsman.
11:18:33 I know in a variety of projects -- that's why I can
11:18:35 say he's done it and done it well, including
11:18:37 restaurant projects in our downtown.
11:18:39 And I think the growth management and planning
11:18:44 department is really looking out to roll out that
11:18:47 ombudsman role in a bigger way.
11:18:52 So I think that is being discussed within the growth
11:18:55 management planning department.
11:18:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
11:18:59 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know how many ways we can
11:19:02 slice and dice Thom Snelling.
11:19:05 But he's also our city's green officer.
11:19:08 And --
11:19:11 Housing.
11:19:13 >>MARY MULHERN: I think maybe you need somebody else
11:19:15 to do that job.
11:19:18 He does a great job at what he's doing, but I don't
11:19:20 think one person is enough.
11:19:22 And maybe your department, economic development, could

11:19:24 find somebody who could help with that.
11:19:28 And I have to say that article was very damning as
11:19:34 Linda said.
11:19:35 But it was only, as far as I can tell, the tip of the
11:19:39 iceberg as far as how many people I get calling me
11:19:42 looking for help, so they can just open the doors, and
11:19:46 so I think the city needs -- we have got to help these
11:19:50 people out.
11:19:50 And so these are a few of the questions I had about
11:19:54 your presentation.
11:19:56 You know, the Deposit Trust and Clearing Corporation,
11:20:02 DTCC, are they in business now?
11:20:04 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Telephone companies.
11:20:13 >>MARY MULHERN: They have invested 35 million?
11:20:15 And what was that, in building that building?
11:20:19 >>MARK HUEY: The building it was already up so the
11:20:21 investment was in retrofitting the building for their
11:20:24 needs and in capital equipment.
11:20:27 They are a very technology intensive company and
11:20:32 invested significantly in technology.
11:20:37 They are still headquartered in New York.
11:20:38 This is a backup operation for what they do globally

11:20:41 to facilitate.
11:20:44 >>MARY MULHERN: I think this is a really good
11:20:46 illustration of how we need to rethink who we are
11:20:49 giving incentives to, considering that they are
11:20:54 services for equities, corporate and municipal bonds,
11:20:57 government and mortgage backed security, money market
11:21:00 instruments, over-the-counter derivatives.
11:21:05 And I think -- I would be surprised if we are not, you
11:21:07 know, bailing these people out already, and if not, if
11:21:10 they are even going to survive another year.
11:21:13 I foal like this illustrates that the way we need to
11:21:17 change the way we look at economic development, you
11:21:19 know.
11:21:20 And in addition to that --
11:21:22 >>> If I could just say, don't create the wrong
11:21:25 impressions, and that's one of the reasons that I
11:21:27 emphasized that our agreements are performance based.
11:21:30 The incentive that I showed, very little everybody
11:21:33 paid yet.
11:21:34 They are paid over a ten-year period, and they are
11:21:36 only payed as long as the jobs are in place.
11:21:39 >> And this is one of those QTI things?

11:21:42 >>> Yes, qualified targeted industry was one of the
11:21:45 incentives layered as was an additional bonus that we
11:21:48 created for them in partnership with the state.
11:21:52 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to see what we are doing for
11:21:55 these bonuses.
11:21:56 And I know you pointed out the one company that we
11:21:58 heard a lot about, that's great, that they are located
11:22:01 in Tampa where we really need the jobs.
11:22:06 But I think the financial institution, let's wipe them
11:22:11 off of our target industries that we want to bring
11:22:13 here.
11:22:13 And I would like to see us --
11:22:18 >>MARK HUEY: We are thrilled with any company that
11:22:21 will bring 500 $70,000 jobs.
11:22:29 I will work day and night to bring them --
11:22:31 >> 570,000 jobs in Tampa?
11:22:33 >> Five hundred jobs that pay 70,000.
11:22:37 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry.
11:22:38 500 jobs that pay --
11:22:41 >>> $70,000 average salary.
11:22:43 They are for our citizens and for all the businesses
11:22:50 in our community, and we count it a privilege to have

11:22:54 an opportunity to work with companies like that.
11:22:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I hope they are all still employed and
11:22:59 doing fine out there.
11:23:02 Then the other --
11:23:05 I'm sorry to interrupt.
11:23:06 But they are required to have --
11:23:11 >>MARK HUEY: Yes, the QTI incentives are paid over a
11:23:15 four-year period and incentives over a ten-year period
11:23:19 and each year they are filing very formal information
11:23:21 about the jobs that it created and the salary levels,
11:23:25 it's all administered through the state, and then
11:23:27 locally.
11:23:29 >>MARY MULHERN: It great.
11:23:31 I can't help but see the industry they are in, maybe
11:23:35 that isn't, you know, things change, have changed
11:23:37 quickly.
11:23:39 And it is four years, 2004, by the way.
11:23:42 But this is what I would like to see us look into.
11:23:46 And I think that you are going to hear this from the
11:23:49 public when they get to speak.
11:23:53 We need to help our local credit unions and start
11:24:00 creating microloans and incentives for the smaller

11:24:02 businesses to stay open.
11:24:05 And I think between trying to create some, you know,
11:24:10 give some credit through local banks and savings and
11:24:16 loans would be probably the best thing we could do for
11:24:21 some small businesses.
11:24:23 I want to echo the need for ombudsman.
11:24:28 I'll have to tell Thom and see if he's cloned himself
11:24:32 yet.
11:24:33 And that's about it.
11:24:35 You know, my sense, you know, probably everybody read
11:24:39 that article in the New York era couple weeks ago that
11:24:42 talked about Florida, and we are like the rest of
11:24:46 Florida then focused on building houses and condos,
11:24:50 and I think that our economic development needs to
11:24:54 started focusing on jobs more than increasing the
11:24:58 property tax base that we have been so focused on for
11:25:04 so longs, because it hasn't worked out so well for us.
11:25:07 So I just want to see more initiatives and more ways
11:25:09 that we can help the local businesses and not just be
11:25:13 targeting, you know, people from outside to come in
11:25:16 and --
11:25:23 Other questions from council?

11:25:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have to answer some thoughts in
11:25:25 my mind. I don't know what the New Yorker has to do
11:25:27 with Tampa, Florida, but I can tell you New York has
11:25:31 to pay a state income tax.
11:25:33 You have less opportunity.
11:25:34 That's why you have a higher percent of people and
11:25:37 higher tax structure in the home industry, and we in
11:25:42 Florida fortunately or unfortunately the way you look
11:25:44 at it have two basic means of taxes and fees, that's
11:25:47 the property tax and sales tax.
11:25:50 Other states don't have that.
11:25:51 There's not one state in this country that's on the
11:25:54 same boat that Florida is in.
11:25:56 I don't care what kind of taxation you have.
11:25:58 When you look at California, they were 40 or 60 some
11:26:04 billion dollars in the red.
11:26:05 No matter what the stimulus package does, they are
11:26:08 still going to be in the red, as I read today in the
11:26:12 school system.
11:26:13 I hope it works.
11:26:14 I hope it works well for everybody.
11:26:16 I want to commend President Obama for taking a step.

11:26:18 You can't just stay at status quo.
11:26:21 He's taking a risk.
11:26:22 And I applaud him for taking that risk and those in
11:26:25 Congress who move forward and say we are going to
11:26:27 change something and try to give an opportunity to
11:26:30 all.
11:26:30 But to this discussion that we have here right now,
11:26:34 these moneys are not expended as I understand it until
11:26:39 the criteria is met, and they meet the obligations
11:26:41 that they said.
11:26:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's correct.
11:26:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And those funds are not given away
11:26:46 up front so they can back the money and go somewhere
11:26:48 else.
11:26:48 It doesn't happen that way.
11:26:51 We have got smarter in doing those things.
11:26:54 And I commend you for looking.
11:26:56 At any time that you can bring 500 or five jobs, I
11:27:01 don't believe that I should vote against anything, I
11:27:05 don't care if it's minimum wage jobs to get the people
11:27:07 back at work.
11:27:08 But when you are looking at $70,000 jobs, average,

11:27:13 that means some are less and some are higher, it's
11:27:16 certainly a shot in the arm to this whole area, no
11:27:19 matter where you live at.
11:27:21 Hillsborough County or the City of Tampa.
11:27:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I have to comment on one thing.
11:27:29 This deposit clearinghouse up in New Tampa, I just got
11:27:32 a call from a real estate agent.
11:27:34 She probably sold 30 homes to people who are working
11:27:38 there.
11:27:39 I myself am renting a unit to a gentleman who came
11:27:42 here from India.
11:27:43 He's only going to be here for six months, but he is
11:27:46 working there.
11:27:47 And this is a great plan.
11:27:51 And the reason they came here is because of the nature
11:27:53 of the building, the way it's constructed, because
11:27:55 what it is, it's a clearinghouse.
11:27:58 T-Mobile is up there now.
11:27:59 It's a tremendous facility.
11:28:01 And anybody who hasn't seen it, has to go up there and
11:28:05 look at it.
11:28:05 It's very high security.

11:28:07 But it's a great asset to the community.
11:28:11 >>MARK HUEY: Beautiful complex.
11:28:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:28:15 Yes?
11:28:20 >>GWEN MILLER: It's not about this.
11:28:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir, for the presentation.
11:28:23 I guess we need to hear from the public.
11:28:25 Anyone from the public wants to address council?
11:28:29 You have three minutes.
11:28:36 >>> Carla Jimenez again.
11:28:38 I don't think I will use all three.
11:28:40 You are not going to hear anyone from TIBA complaining
11:28:43 about them. Our position on this would simply be to
11:28:45 again think if there is a local piece of business
11:28:49 missing and we think there is.
11:28:52 In cities across the country there are, in addition to
11:28:54 the incentive we talked about in the previous
11:28:56 workshop, other ideas that are being proposed, and
11:28:58 that are out there and that are not being challenged
11:29:00 legally in a way that this is a problem.
11:29:04 Store caps, economic studies that require looking at
11:29:08 the consequences for existing businesses and jobs,

11:29:10 strict enforcement of impact fees, we give away a lot
11:29:13 on that, all over.
11:29:15 Revitalizing downtown and neighborhood business
11:29:17 districts, encouraging urban in-fill and critically
11:29:21 evaluating every tax break and infrastructure support
11:29:23 so that we don't get fooled again and end up with
11:29:26 empty boxes.
11:29:27 Those are very important.
11:29:28 And people will say, oh my goodness, we can't give
11:29:31 preference to local businesses.
11:29:32 And that's not what we are asking for.
11:29:34 We are not asking for the help.
11:29:36 We are asking for a level playing field and it has not
11:29:40 been level probably since the advent of the automobile
11:29:43 for locally owned businesses.
11:29:44 Every level of government from federal down to city,
11:29:47 there has been incentives that are -- the money is
11:29:50 handed out on one hand, and then on the other hand we
11:29:53 hear, oh, they are paying taxes and bringing jobs.
11:29:55 But again if you read some of these books and look at
11:29:57 some of the studies you will see a lot of that is
11:30:00 mythology.

11:30:01 I'm delighted to hear that these are now set so that
11:30:04 over ten years there are moments where the money is
11:30:07 paid out instead of up front but when all know if we
11:30:10 have read the papers and seen the studies, in the
11:30:12 State of Florida we have had a lot of promise that is
11:30:14 haven't been kept.
11:30:14 So we would like to look at local alternatives, ways
11:30:18 that very little money can go far.
11:30:20 For example, the state of Utah, completely supports
11:30:23 with $50,000 -- Utah doesn't have a very big
11:30:27 population, but it's a statewide program, and they
11:30:27 give $50,000 to their local-first campaign.
11:30:34 They pay for directories of locally owned businesses.
11:30:36 They pay for signage.
11:30:37 They have letters from the mayor and the council and
11:30:40 the governor about the importance of supporting
11:30:41 businesses.
11:30:43 In Austin, Texas they have a great program called
11:30:46 IBIZ, independent business investment zone, a simple
11:30:50 matter with the city pays for directories of the
11:30:53 locally owned businesses in an area, and street signs,
11:30:56 that identify the business, and the business area, and

11:30:59 the community, and just we could have that in Seminole
11:31:02 Heights, we could have that in Ybor, we could have it
11:31:05 in our downtown district, and it's probably, now, 6 or
11:31:10 $7,000.
11:31:10 We are not talking about a lot of money.
11:31:12 But to look again not just outward but to look inward,
11:31:15 and again the reason for this is the economic studies
11:31:19 that show we frankly get more bang for the buck when
11:31:22 we keep the money local.
11:31:23 It's that simple.
11:31:24 Thank you for your time.
11:31:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:31:33 >> Ken Stoltenberg, I reside at 1001 Channelside
11:31:37 Drive.
11:31:38 And two things.
11:31:39 I think it's great the city is looking at
11:31:42 incentivizing local businesses, and in preparation for
11:31:46 that, I am going to list ten things that other cities
11:31:49 in Florida have done, particularly in CRA districts
11:31:52 that they could apply city-wide.
11:31:54 The CRA district is nifty because you have a source of
11:31:56 revenue to pay for it.

11:31:58 All of these are, as Mr. Huey suggested, performance
11:32:02 based, done over time, and they have been successful
11:32:06 in other cities.
11:32:07 I think it great that you are thinking about trying it
11:32:09 here.
11:32:09 We need to do it immediately.
11:32:11 The other issue that was -- I wasn't sure it was going
11:32:15 to be brought up but it was.
11:32:16 I have been out there three years trying to recruit
11:32:20 local businesses for Grand Central.
11:32:21 The number one complaint I get now is about the
11:32:23 economy.
11:32:23 A close second is the nightmare of dealing with the
11:32:26 city.
11:32:27 There are tons, hundreds of business people, I talk to
11:32:30 them every day.
11:32:31 And the people that everybody through the mill once
11:32:34 don't want to do it again.
11:32:35 And we need to -- I would use the solid waste
11:32:38 department to get rid of the permit and approval
11:32:41 system.
11:32:41 It's horrible.

11:32:42 We have got to work on that.
11:32:43 That is as important as any economic incentive that
11:32:45 you can give a business owner.
11:32:48 In Orlando what they do is they put together a process
11:32:53 on three items, the process was to be fair,
11:32:56 expeditious, and certain for people to invest.
11:33:01 That's the three principles that theirs is based on.
11:33:04 It worked rather well.
11:33:06 I can't tell you how many folks -- I read the article
11:33:10 last Friday.
11:33:11 The night before, I said to my wife, hey, honey, this
11:33:15 is going to be great, and then I read the paper the
11:33:18 next day.
11:33:19 And like, there's another one.
11:33:21 So the process we have now is a problem as anything
11:33:27 else we are dealing with.
11:33:28 That's the bad news.
11:33:29 The good news is we can fix it.
11:33:34 It's a self-inflicted problem.
11:33:36 I have written to the mayor on this.
11:33:37 And I would just ask you guys, maybe not a stupid
11:33:41 idea, but maybe we need a business hotline, and maybe

11:33:44 that consists of one cell phone which you all get to
11:33:48 carry around one day.
11:33:49 If you know what the people are going through that are
11:33:52 trying to make this a great city, the problems they
11:33:54 are having with things that just don't make sense, you
11:33:56 are head would explode.
11:33:58 I guarantee it.
11:34:00 Let me give you one example and then I'll leave here.
11:34:02 We just did a rezoning and we thank you for your
11:34:04 support.
11:34:05 There's a banner on the building over there that Tampa
11:34:08 is a green city.
11:34:09 Our printing bill was over $11,000 to supply print to
11:34:13 the city for that approval.
11:34:15 That's an awful lot of paper.
11:34:16 We do everything on tab.
11:34:21 >> Thank you, Mr. Huey for that.
11:34:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
11:34:25 Let's stay with the public and then we'll come back.
11:34:28 >>> Josh Doran, I work with a company called the Doran
11:34:32 group, a commercial brokerage firm in downtown Tampa,
11:34:34 I am also on the board of TIBA, Tampa Independent

11:34:36 Business Alliance.
11:34:38 So the two most important things in our world is
11:34:40 helping build and energize this urban core of a city
11:34:43 that has the access and potential to be absolutely one
11:34:46 of the best in the country, and secondly doing that
11:34:50 with not only local but certainly being supporting the
11:34:53 local economy and community as we do that.
11:34:57 First I have to applaud seeing the projects that are
11:35:00 underway right now with the city from the museum, the
11:35:03 art museum, the riverwalk project, but the real issue
11:35:07 is sort of like Ken just spoke about is the real
11:35:11 on-the-street issues of getting things done and moving
11:35:14 forward.
11:35:14 I talk to downtown businesses every day right outer
11:35:17 who on the street.
11:35:18 They absolutely feel like the red-headed step children
11:35:20 of this city.
11:35:22 As they come in, they are investing their money, their
11:35:24 energy, they are opening businesses, and instead of
11:35:27 being supported and held up for those investments and
11:35:30 that energy, they are just feeling like they are being
11:35:33 beaten down and pushed back every step they take

11:35:36 forward.
11:35:37 It's a cultural thing.
11:35:39 And anything we can do to move that, that's our big,
11:35:42 big push.
11:35:43 I have very specific examples, very recently.
11:35:48 Obviously difficulty with the drawn-out process, with
11:35:50 developers and other businesses.
11:35:51 Parking issues downtown.
11:35:53 No attention.
11:35:55 We talk about Gasparilla and Super Bowl.
11:35:57 Those were great events.
11:35:58 Downtown was cleared out, empty, every marketing, all
11:36:02 the attention was somewhere else.
11:36:03 Most specifically just a week or two ago for
11:36:06 Gasparilla, three-block radius right in the core of
11:36:09 our city, three blocks, all of the parking in front of
11:36:13 all of those brand new restaurant and retail
11:36:16 businesses, you were not allowed to park there.
11:36:20 These businesses were open all day.
11:36:22 Nobody could park within three blocks of their
11:36:24 businesses, have no answer why that was done or how
11:36:27 that occurred.

11:36:27 But I can tell you I get stopped on the street every
11:36:30 day by local businesses saying someone high up must
11:36:33 not want this downtown area to succeed.
11:36:37 And as much as we care and we work, that's a difficult
11:36:40 thing to hear.
11:36:40 A lot of great people here bringing energy, investment
11:36:44 dollars.
11:36:45 They are going to go away.
11:36:46 And we work way too hard to build this up and make it
11:36:49 a place that we all love and want to live, work and
11:36:51 play, to see those people that try get pushed back and
11:36:55 go somewhere else.
11:36:56 Thank you.
11:36:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
11:36:57 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to ask you a
11:36:59 question.
11:36:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Hold it, Mr. Caetano.
11:37:01 I'll let you come back.
11:37:02 I want to finish with the public.
11:37:05 Citizens of the public because it's their time.
11:37:08 Then we have another hearing.
11:37:09 And it's 25 till.

11:37:10 Yes.
11:37:10 >>> Ellen Brown.
11:37:12 My husband and I own the Old Tampa Book Company, Tampa
11:37:18 Street.
11:37:18 We have been there 15 years.
11:37:21 For 15 years we have been the only retail place
11:37:26 downtown practically.
11:37:28 And we have had people come in, visitors, tourists,
11:37:33 business people, people at the convention saying,
11:37:36 where is downtown?
11:37:37 What can I do?
11:37:38 Why are all these stores empty?
11:37:39 What's wrong?
11:37:41 And I don't want to repeat what Josh said because it
11:37:47 was absolutely perfect.
11:37:48 Parking.
11:37:49 All of the problems in downtown and the terrible
11:37:52 frustration of all of the events that shut us down.
11:37:56 Way want to talk about today is that the incentives
11:38:00 idea, incentivizing small business, is not a new one,
11:38:05 it's an old one.
11:38:06 When we moved in, 15 years ago, the City of Tampa had

11:38:11 a program for microloans to independently owned small
11:38:18 businesses, and we got a loan that got paid from
11:38:23 Barnett, and it was guaranteed by the city, and it was
11:38:26 one point over prime.
11:38:27 And it was for a very small amount, but enough for us
11:38:30 to begin to buy our inventory and for us to do
11:38:33 buildout.
11:38:34 And I think those two things, than we would not have
11:38:37 all of these empty storefronts downtown if that kind
11:38:40 of a program was developed between the city and, I
11:38:44 would think the independent banks in town, you know,
11:38:49 Florida banks, bank of Florida, bank of Tampa, all of
11:38:52 those small banks have an interest in our business,
11:38:56 and that is a wonderful way to start.
11:39:00 We would like to you please think about that.
11:39:03 And Mary did mention the whole idea of the small
11:39:09 microloans.
11:39:10 I think that's essential start to help us.
11:39:13 Let's get downtown built.
11:39:14 I'm tired of being there alone.
11:39:18 >>> MaryAnn Farenc and I think there are a lot of
11:39:31 wonderful things happening already.

11:39:33 I think there are some tremendous innovative ideas as
11:39:35 we look at things happening across the country that
11:39:37 can assist small and independent businesses.
11:39:40 I think that it's important for the city to decide
11:39:43 where we need the in-fill development and then do
11:39:48 things that help those things to happen.
11:39:50 We need to bring the places that already have a start
11:39:53 to capacity in this city and really develop those
11:39:55 areas.
11:39:56 But there are some great things happening already.
11:39:59 But like folks said, it's really true, most
11:40:02 independent business people, most small business
11:40:04 people, really just want the city to not make it hard,
11:40:07 not asking for things to make it easier.
11:40:09 We just want it not to be so hard.
11:40:13 They are in tough economic times.
11:40:15 It's when these crazy entrepreneurs will get out there
11:40:18 and lay their money on the line and their sweat and
11:40:20 their sweat equity.
11:40:22 So if we could change those things within the city,
11:40:25 and as Ken said very well, the great thing about this
11:40:27 is, we can change this.

11:40:29 So we as the Tampa independent business alliance would
11:40:32 really like to be a resource to the city and exploring
11:40:35 those ideas, and letting you hear what the problems,
11:40:39 letting the city hear what the problems are and
11:40:42 solving them.
11:40:43 Thank you so much for your time today.
11:40:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Mulhern, then councilman
11:40:47 Caetano.
11:40:48 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to say to Ken, believe me, we
11:40:51 hear about it.
11:40:52 It's not like he would don't hear on council.
11:40:55 I have heard from probably every small business that's
11:40:58 here today about problems they had with our process
11:41:04 for going forward, and I think you all know that I
11:41:07 tried to help you, and I'm sure I'm not the only
11:41:09 council member.
11:41:10 I'm probably one of search.
11:41:11 And so this is not -- I want you to know that we are
11:41:16 doing what we can.
11:41:18 The ball is in the administration's court now, and we
11:41:22 need them to address -- I think we need to address
11:41:26 every one of those questions that came up in the

11:41:29 economic times story last weekend.
11:41:31 And how we can help.
11:41:34 Because this is what I hear from big and small
11:41:39 businesses, people don't want to do business in Tampa
11:41:41 because it's just too hard to do.
11:41:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
11:41:47 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Sir, Mr. Doering, is it?
11:41:53 Do you own a building on Florida Avenue?
11:41:54 >>> No.
11:41:58 I work --
11:41:59 Okay, sir.
11:42:02 Okay.
11:42:03 That concludes our -- yes.
11:42:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to say, Mr. Huey,
11:42:08 that the idea of microloans is something that I think
11:42:11 we should look at in terms of incentive for retail in
11:42:16 our CRA areas.
11:42:18 And I don't think it would be that difficult to do.
11:42:20 And what I would like you to do, if you could, is talk
11:42:23 with Ellen brown who runs the book store, see what we
11:42:27 were doing 15 years ago, talk with some of the local
11:42:29 banks who have to meet their requirements and see if

11:42:35 we can come up with something for our new budget for
11:42:38 our CRA district.
11:42:39 I think that's a really solid, implementable idea and
11:42:41 small enough to be workable and it could hopefully get
11:42:44 some people to be able to open, that coupled with the
11:42:48 ombudsman function of making people's lives easier.
11:42:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, speaking of the CRA now, you
11:42:53 have to be very careful because of the Florida
11:42:55 statute.
11:42:56 But you are doing some of that already with the facade
11:42:59 program as I understand it, is that right?
11:43:01 >>MARK HUEY: Yes.
11:43:02 CRA dollars to do loans, to business loans.
11:43:09 I can't speak for Sal, but it would be challenging.
11:43:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Regular dollars.
11:43:13 >>MARK HUEY: Yes, yes.
11:43:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: okay, council.
11:43:18 That will conclude then that workshop.
11:43:23 Councilman Miranda will have to leave shortly.
11:43:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Our attorney -- could I make a motion?
11:43:29 Because CRA has a special meeting next week.
11:43:32 And I don't -- can I do that now?

11:43:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A motion regarding the CRA?
11:43:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Uh-huh.
11:43:44 The meeting next week.
11:43:50 Five minutes.
11:43:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't know what would be
11:43:54 appropriate.
11:43:58 I don't know technically what would be the best way to
11:44:00 do it.
11:44:02 Obviously, if you want to make notice now, I could ask
11:44:08 Mr. Territo if there's any issue with that.
11:44:14 To see if this evening that would be a problem.
11:44:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Just to make a motion that next week
11:44:18 the CRA meeting meet at 9:00 for five minutes.
11:44:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
11:44:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Next week will be March 5th.
11:44:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Would you still keep your regular
11:44:34 meeting of the 12th?
11:44:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:44:36 This is something I want Mr. Huey.
11:44:41 East Tampa, get it out of the way.
11:44:45 >>MARK HUEY: The matter is, we have been working on a
11:44:48 real estate acquisition opportunity, three properties

11:44:51 around Gene's Bar which is a property we acquired a
11:44:55 couple of years ago.
11:44:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So then I guess the question becomes
11:45:00 for legal is can the CRA convene at 9:00 for five
11:45:04 minutes to vote on an issue?
11:45:09 I will tell you in the past, the issue with you the
11:45:10 clerk, and having to change tapes and all that, I know
11:45:13 that.
11:45:14 But do you want to speak to that?
11:45:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'll see if I can in the next 15
11:45:18 minutes see if I can contact Mr. Territo and get the
11:45:21 answer to that.
11:45:21 But I would believe you would just direct the clerk to
11:45:25 post and notify for a special meeting and we'll
11:45:27 hear --
11:45:30 >>GWEN MILLER: I take my motion back.
11:45:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you want to hold it in abeyance.
11:45:34 >>GWEN MILLER: If you want to make a motion.
11:45:36 If he has to leave, that's why I wanted to do it.
11:45:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I suspect we can make it happen.
11:45:42 Let me just find out the proper way to do it.
11:45:53 If council wanted to do that we'll work it out.

11:45:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So bring it back.
11:45:57 Okay.
11:46:00 Councilman Dingfelder, do you want --
11:46:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: On item 5, and I don't think
11:46:05 there's anybody nearly here to speak on it.
11:46:08 If you are, raise your hand.
11:46:09 I have spoken with our legal counsel on this issue.
11:46:13 And it was in the Tribune, I think.
11:46:15 But bottom line is, Julia Cole told me we are going to
11:46:19 address item 5 in September.
11:46:20 And we are going to hopefully modify our sign code,
11:46:26 and our code enforcement code, so that any profit
11:46:29 property sign code violators, commercial or political,
11:46:32 would be included in our new citation program.
11:46:35 That will be the direction, I think, that hopefully
11:46:40 Ms. Cole will come back for a discussion.
11:46:42 So I'll just put this off until our September
11:46:44 workshop, whatever date that is.
11:46:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So you are moving to continue this in
11:46:50 line with our September --
11:46:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, I'll say September at 10:00.
11:46:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion.

11:46:55 Is there a second?
11:46:56 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
11:46:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded item number 5,
11:47:01 illegal political campaign signs to continue to
11:47:07 September.
11:47:07 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:47:09 Opposes?
11:47:10 Okay.
11:47:13 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda absent,
11:47:19 Caetano absent, Saul-Sena absent.
11:47:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Madam CRA Chairman, I believe Mr.
11:47:24 Territo is here, and I have also spoken with Mrs.
11:47:28 Marshall. Council can act to set a special called
11:47:32 meeting for March 5 at 9 a.m.
11:47:36 >> So moved.
11:47:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
11:47:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
11:47:39 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda absent,
11:47:48 Saul-Sena absent and Caetano absent at vote.
11:47:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
11:47:52 Council, we have about 12 minutes to 12, and we have
11:47:55 an item on our agenda, number 6, dealing with the

11:48:01 ordinance of the right-of-way relative to the Hartline
11:48:07 bus benches so we have invited Hartline as well as the
11:48:10 Jaycees.
11:48:11 How do you want to proceed at this point?
11:48:13 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion that we hear it on --
11:48:24 I would suggest that we set a time for 12:30, and give
11:48:30 each side an opportunity to address council on this
11:48:32 particular issue.
11:48:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, might council want to
11:48:38 make inquiry of members of the public who intend to
11:48:40 want to speak after the presentations, to get a gauge
11:48:43 of how many people want three minutes?
11:48:47 >> Anyone from the public want to address council on
11:48:48 this issue? Anyone from the public?
11:48:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Other than the parties who are
11:48:53 involved.
11:48:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public?
11:48:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Jenkins.
11:48:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A couple or three people.
11:49:01 That's a motion.
11:49:01 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:49:04 Opposes?

11:49:04 Okay.
11:49:11 Councilman Dingfelder made the motion. Councilwoman
11:49:15 Miller seconded the motion.
11:49:16 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department. Given our time
11:49:18 constraint, let me just briefly let you know where I
11:49:22 understand we are, and then --.
11:49:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me say the process, we'll allow
11:49:28 Ms. Cole to make a presentation, open it up, and then
11:49:31 I will have both the Jaycees and Hartline to come and
11:49:36 give us about five, six minutes, their side.
11:49:42 I thought about ten but I'm not sure there's going to
11:49:44 be enough time for that.
11:49:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Five.
11:49:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I will tell you, we have been briefed.
11:49:50 Let me say out front, we have been briefed by staff, I
11:49:54 have heard from the Jaycees, I heard from Hartline.
11:49:58 Now, we can hear it today. It's all right with me.
11:50:02 But I can tell you where I am now.
11:50:07 This shall you is easily be resolved.
11:50:10 Either we can do it or we can send it back and let you
11:50:12 all do it and come to a happy resolution.
11:50:16 That's my position.

11:50:18 Now, Ms. Cole, go ahead.
11:50:20 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:50:22 I understand this is on your agenda as a workshop
11:50:26 item, to hear from Hart and Jaycees, but for your
11:50:30 information we do have within the code as it stands
11:50:32 today, and in fact since prior to '89 a park bench
11:50:36 program which does allow park benches to be located
11:50:39 within the City of Tampa right-of-way, to have
11:50:43 advertising, the locations are locational criteria in
11:50:47 our code, typically at bus stops, they could be at
11:50:53 other locations but those code provisions everybody in
11:50:55 place for many, many years N.2007, some of you all may
11:50:58 recall, we actually also amended our code.
11:51:04 It was an amendment to allow advertising to be located
11:51:08 on Hart transit shelters.
11:51:10 It could be for any transit shelter but specifically
11:51:12 for Hart transit shelters.
11:51:15 I understand that there has been a request made to
11:51:17 City Council members, and why it was set, was to amend
11:51:22 the park bench portion of our code, which has been in
11:51:25 place for many, many years, hasn't been looked at in a
11:51:29 really long time, but to amend our code to provide

11:51:32 that our code as relates to bus benches doesn't allow
11:51:39 the Hart transit shelters to be given preference,
11:51:42 meaning that bus benches can be allowed to be placed
11:51:46 first, if they are placed first in time versus hard
11:51:50 shelters which are allowed to be relocated benches.
11:51:55 So that is what I understand is in front of you.
11:51:58 Legally where you are on this particular issue is
11:52:01 whenever we open up our rights-of-way for permitting,
11:52:04 for regulatory issues, we have to treat similarly
11:52:08 situated, we can't really care about who the entity is
11:52:14 because we are regulators of our right-of-way.
11:52:16 It's different if we are actually the proprietors of
11:52:19 our right-of-way, for example, for franchises.
11:52:21 But as regulators of our right-of-way we have to treat
11:52:23 everybody the same.
11:52:26 You know, whether or not City Council feels that they
11:52:28 need to amend the code, to create equal footing, is
11:52:32 what I think has been suggested by the Jaycees, and
11:52:34 something we can talk about further after this
11:52:36 conversation.
11:52:37 I will tell you that I think our code provides
11:52:39 latitude on the part of our transportation manager and

11:52:42 our right-of-way permitting processes to ensure that
11:52:47 we are not violating the laws that relate to people
11:52:51 who come into our right-of-way, and I know that is
11:52:54 something we have attempted to do.
11:52:55 As I said the transit shelter advertising program has
11:52:59 only been since 2007.
11:53:01 What we have is a bench program for many, many, many
11:53:04 years, and has been handled through our right-of-way
11:53:07 staff.
11:53:08 Our right-of-way staff, and I think even Mr. Daignault
11:53:11 is here to answer any questions.
11:53:12 I don't think they are going to make a presentation
11:53:15 but I want to let you know where we are legally.
11:53:17 I know you want to hear from Hart and you want to hear
11:53:20 from the Jaycees.
11:53:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll hear from the Jaycees. Mr.
11:53:27 Taub.
11:53:29 >> Good morning again.
11:53:32 I represent the Jaycees, and as well as Metro.
11:53:45 Since we have limited time, I must ask you to, post
11:53:50 the adjournment of this meeting, to review all of the
11:53:55 material that we have provided to you.

11:53:57 I know that you will.
11:53:58 There was one item that was omitted from the package
11:54:00 that we provided to you, which I respectfully ask Mr.
11:54:04 Shelby add to --
11:54:08 Yes.
11:54:09 >>> In 1950, this was a typical bus stop bench.
11:54:46 Charlie Rockwell was 84, is here today, and a few
11:54:52 other Jaycees, got together and decided to do
11:54:56 something about it.
11:55:01 Mr. Rockwell is here today.
11:55:03 He has a presentation that is in your materials.
11:55:08 We don't have time for him to read it all.
11:55:10 I would like him introduce him and ask him to make a
11:55:15 few brief remarks.
11:55:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We read it.
11:55:17 >>> Mr. Charley Rocker, 84 going strong.
11:55:22 I was a young Jaycee in the sixties putting out
11:55:26 pictures for Gasparilla and putting up with the guys,
11:55:33 who never joined, in all due respect, pointing pistols
11:55:35 in kids faces and being drunk.
11:55:37 So I respectfully, although I have been involved in a
11:55:39 lot of civic activities, did not get engaged in that,

11:55:43 but I did work on the Jaycees putting up the benches
11:55:46 and I became state president of Jaycees and legal
11:55:49 counsel of the Jaycees, so the Jaycees are near and
11:55:52 dear to my heart as well as a "client,"
11:55:56 Charlie, would you say a few words, please, on behalf
11:55:58 of yourself and the organization?
11:55:59 >> Thank you.
11:56:04 Mr. Chairman and councilmen, I first appeared before
11:56:07 this council in February 1950.
11:56:17 >> I missed that meeting.
11:56:19 >>> That was a little while ago.
11:56:26 I am from Bartow and I have begun practicing law in
11:56:32 Lakeland, and the law firm of Peterson Myers asked me
11:56:35 to come to Tampa and represent their interests, and I
11:56:40 came and I'm still here.
11:56:44 >> We welcome you, sir.
11:56:46 >> It is awfully hard to talk about sixty years in a
11:56:49 couple of minutes.
11:56:49 And I could say a great deal.
11:57:00 I will add to what she said a little.
11:57:03 The benches do not seek preference over the shelters.
11:57:09 That's not the case.

11:57:10 The benches have been here sixty years, since 1950.
11:57:14 And they wish to coexist with the shelter.
11:57:21 Be the ordinance that we worked under, that they work
11:57:25 under, I don't know, was amended by Hart some years
11:57:33 ago to provide that when a shelter was placed, a bench
11:57:39 could be removed.
11:57:40 Everywhere else that the service company, it's called,
11:57:48 provides benches in the state that coexist.
11:57:54 They have coexisted here for all these years.
11:57:59 Until Hart went into the sign business recently.
11:58:04 Now they don't want them to coexist, and that's
11:58:06 because they consider they conflict with their signs.
11:58:15 We only wish that they be independently controlled,
11:58:18 and complement each other, and provide the citizens
11:58:26 with the same services they enjoy in the county, and
11:58:32 the places that this company serves, and that they
11:58:36 have here since 1950 where the shelters have been.
11:58:42 Hart changed the ordinance.
11:58:45 The Jaycees and the other organizations didn't know
11:58:49 they changed the ordinance.
11:58:50 They didn't give them the consideration or courtesy of
11:58:54 telling them.

11:58:55 And we would like to ask that the ordinance be
11:59:00 restored to where it was so that they may coexist, as
11:59:04 they do in the county, not to interfere with each
11:59:07 other, they could provide those services at the stop.
11:59:14 (Bell sounds).
11:59:16 >> Thank you.
11:59:21 >>> If you lived a good while, you come to the
11:59:26 understanding that the standards of conduct of the
11:59:30 people have changed a great deal.
11:59:33 And we wonder those who have been here a long time
11:59:38 wonder where our values have gone.
11:59:41 And the beliefs that one should not expect a
11:59:53 quasi-judicial body to prey upon a project that has
11:59:58 need and value by the service organization.
12:00:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, sir.
12:00:04 >>> I will sit down.
12:00:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
12:00:08 [ Laughter ]
12:00:10 Thank you for the history and for the information.
12:00:15 >>> Mr. Chairman, I am going to just take up a couple
12:00:18 more minutes.
12:00:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But the five minute, what I would have

12:00:21 done, I will let him speak under public comment time.
12:00:25 He's taken up your time for your presentation.
12:00:30 >>> Well --
12:00:31 Let me finish.
12:00:32 We allow five minutes for your presentation.
12:00:33 The public will have opportunity to speak.
12:00:35 I will allow him to speak at the public.
12:00:37 Now that he's used up your time, I have to be fair,
12:00:40 okay?
12:00:42 Unless the board directs me otherwise, I need to hear
12:00:44 from the other side, and then I will give you rebuttal
12:00:47 opportunity.
12:00:48 Okay?
12:00:50 >>>
12:00:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: In all fairness he did ask me what
12:00:53 the procedures normally are.
12:00:54 There have been instances when somebody is speaking on
12:00:56 behalf of a party they include that within their
12:00:58 presentation, that he would have ten minutes.
12:01:02 He might have not known --
12:01:06 I outlined at the beginning each party would have five
12:01:08 minutes.

12:01:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: But he might not have been aware that
12:01:13 he might not everybody able to speak under public
12:01:17 comment.
12:01:18 >>> You said ten minutes.
12:01:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I thought I opened my statement saying
12:01:22 it was ten minutes.
12:01:23 Is that what I said?
12:01:24 I said but because of the time constraint I am going
12:01:27 to have to cut that down to five minutes.
12:01:28 >>> I would like rebuttal time, sir.
12:01:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
12:01:31 Okay.
12:01:31 Mr. Clark.
12:01:34 >>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
12:01:36 I had not seen the packet from metropolitan but I did
12:01:38 bring a packet for Hart.
12:01:42 Clerk, I am going to give you a copy of theirs because
12:01:47 I already looked at it.
12:01:50 This is a different world from when Mr. Rocker
12:01:59 started.
12:02:01 The main thing that has happened since the old bench
12:02:07 that he put up there is we now have the Americans with

12:02:12 Disabilities Act.
12:02:12 And every time you put in a new facility, one has to
12:02:16 worry about whether that facility is consistent with
12:02:20 the Americans with Disabilities Act.
12:02:21 And in the packet that I have given you under tab B
12:02:32 are pictures of metropolitan advertising, benches that
12:02:37 have been put where the shelter has been built, and we
12:02:42 have left room, Hart has left room to put wheelchairs
12:02:46 in the shelter.
12:02:48 Instead, metropolitan advertising comes and puts
12:02:51 benches there.
12:02:52 They put benches where you can't get to the trash can.
12:02:55 They put benches where you can't get to the shelter
12:02:59 itself.
12:03:00 Now, understood tab C, are other pictures.
12:03:05 And these pictures are pictures where Hart build a
12:03:08 landing pad so that people can get on the bus and off
12:03:11 the bus in wheelchairs.
12:03:14 Metropolitan benches comes and puts a wheelchair in
12:03:16 the middle of that pad so you cannot -- bench, I'm
12:03:21 sorry, that they put a bench right in the middle of
12:03:24 that pad so the wheelchair patrons cannot get on the

12:03:27 bus, cannot get off the bus.
12:03:29 They put benches where you can't push the button, so
12:03:33 that you can cross the street.
12:03:36 They put benches in the middle of sidewalks so that
12:03:38 people who are in wheelchairs or people who have sight
12:03:44 problems cannot get where they need to go.
12:03:47 There is a law of the land.
12:03:48 The law of the land is the Americans with Disabilities
12:03:50 Act.
12:03:51 We are not talking about treating entities
12:03:54 differently.
12:03:54 We are talking about do you throw a bench wherever you
12:03:58 want to and not care about what impact it has on the
12:04:02 community, or you build a shelter that provides
12:04:05 protection from wind, from sun, from rain, has
12:04:10 lighting at night.
12:04:11 You don't treat a bench and a shelter equally, no
12:04:14 matter who build it.
12:04:16 If metropolitan advertising wants to build a shelter,
12:04:20 God bless 'em, and if they want to make it ADA
12:04:26 compatible they are entitled to do that.
12:04:28 But a shelter and a bus bench are not equal.

12:04:33 And Hart has tried and tried to live with metropolitan
12:04:39 benches.
12:04:40 It's a difficult thing.
12:04:41 We are not here to say kick them out of town.
12:04:45 All we are here to say is you have an ordinance that
12:04:47 works.
12:04:48 It ain't broke.
12:04:49 Don't fix it.
12:04:51 What we do need to fix is enforce the ordinance that
12:04:54 you have and make them obey the law.
12:04:59 I don't know if Mr. Armijo the CEO for Hart is here.
12:05:05 He may want to say a word.
12:05:06 >>> Thank you.
12:05:07 I'll be brief, about a minute.
12:05:10 In these situations it's always challenging.
12:05:13 I know your job is difficult today.
12:05:15 What I want to say briefly is, this council did a
12:05:18 great job in 2007 moving forward this ordinance.
12:05:21 As a result of that action we now have an advertising
12:05:23 contractor who is going to add some 350 shelters
12:05:26 within Hillsborough County, and substantial number of
12:05:29 those in the service area for Hart.

12:05:35 We are very excited about that.
12:05:36 The revenue from that will help maintain those
12:05:38 shelters as we go forward.
12:05:39 Now, with that said, Hart has produced $1.6 million
12:05:44 and worry going to add another million from the
12:05:46 stimulus for accessibility, and more shelters.
12:05:49 So we are going to put down about two and a half
12:05:51 million dollars over the next couple of years to
12:05:52 improve upon the services that we currently have.
12:05:55 So we would ask you today essentially just help us by
12:05:59 maintaining the ordinance we have.
12:06:01 We are more than happy to work together closely with
12:06:04 metro bench and see what we can do to apply a medium
12:06:08 point.
12:06:09 Ultimately we are all trying to provide a better
12:06:11 quality service to our product for the people of this
12:06:14 community.
12:06:14 So anything we can do, we are here to support.
12:06:16 Thank you.
12:06:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You can come back for rebuttal.
12:06:24 You have three minutes.
12:06:25 >>> I am going to continue to take the high road on

12:06:27 this matter, Mr. Chairman and ladies and gentlemen.
12:06:30 However, in my opinion, I have never seen a more
12:06:35 disingenuous campaign launched by a public agency in
12:06:39 my public career, and I have a public career as well
12:06:43 as a private practice.
12:06:46 Please look at tab D in your materials and you will
12:06:53 find an e-mail letter from Marsha MASS, coordinator of
12:07:02 the access board, and I would like to quote just
12:07:05 briefly, because you have been told what is not the
12:07:08 law.
12:07:11 Quote.
12:07:11 Even assuming that the access board's revised
12:07:13 guidelines apply, which they do not, or will apply in
12:07:16 the near future, to facilities in Florida, I would not
12:07:20 apply section 903 to benches in the public
12:07:22 right-of-way.
12:07:24 Section 903 is a technical provision which is scoped
12:07:28 only through other sections of the board's guidelines,
12:07:31 specifically section 612, sauna's and steam rooms,
12:07:35 803, dressing, fitting and locker rooms, and 807,
12:07:39 holding cells and housing cells.
12:07:42 Therefore, the only benches which must comply with

12:07:44 section 903 would be located in those spaces subject
12:07:48 to section 612, 803 and 807.
12:07:53 Frankly, I would not want to leave you with the
12:07:59 impression that benches in the public right-of-way
12:08:01 need not be accessible.
12:08:03 We don't take that position either.
12:08:04 But they say generally we view a public right-of-way
12:08:08 as a program of state or local government.
12:08:10 In other words, the regulations are not law, indeed
12:08:17 the new administration in Washington has shelved all
12:08:20 of these to look at everything anew.
12:08:22 We are not violating the Americans with Disabilities
12:08:25 Act in any measure whatsoever with our benches.
12:08:31 We are not in the business of trying to maximize
12:08:37 revenue by advertising tattoo parlors on a public
12:08:41 shelter.
12:08:44 We are in the business of providing a public service
12:08:48 for a multiple number of civic organizations.
12:08:54 If you will look in your materials, you will see a
12:08:57 sign on Claude Jordan homes' property, Jaycee bench
12:09:03 sign advertising his attorney.
12:09:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Which part of the high road is

12:09:08 that?
12:09:11 [ Laughter ]
12:09:12 I'm just being facetious.
12:09:14 >>> Well, it's the road that we have been given.
12:09:16 It's the road we have been given.
12:09:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You opened that door.
12:09:20 I couldn't help it.
12:09:21 >>> And we just want a level playing field.
12:09:24 And I don't like personally, and I don't think the law
12:09:30 counts the little guy getting run over.
12:09:33 The little guy getting run over for no reason that is
12:09:37 in the public health, safety and welfare.
12:09:40 There is nothing antithetical about the Jaycee project
12:09:43 to serving the public health, safety and welfare.
12:09:46 We have provided benches for 60 years.
12:09:49 All we want to do is live and let live.
12:09:52 They want us to locate our benches 40 feet from the
12:09:56 shelter.
12:09:56 Well, that's a public service, isn't it? That really
12:09:59 will serve that fellow who is in that chair or someone
12:10:01 else to access the bus once it stops at the shelter.
12:10:07 The whole thing here as a result of the contract with

12:10:11 signal outdoor advertising and Hart.
12:10:14 Money.
12:10:15 That's it.
12:10:15 It has nothing to do with public service.
12:10:18 And I would respectfully ask you to take a look at our
12:10:21 brief ordinance which I discussed with your legal
12:10:25 department.
12:10:25 They have not rendered an opinion to you.
12:10:27 But they have voiced no objection to me.
12:10:30 The words "priority," the "concurrence" what should be
12:10:37 what goes on here.
12:10:38 That's what your job is respectfully, to make sure
12:10:40 that everybody is treated equally.
12:10:42 Thank you.
12:10:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
12:10:45 Councilman Dingfelder and councilman Caetano.
12:10:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't know who wants to speak to
12:10:50 this issue from Hart but I have a question to Hart.
12:10:55 My question is this -- it real seems almost silly.
12:11:01 We are fighting over locations, okay.
12:11:03 We are fighting over locations to provide a public
12:11:07 service.

12:11:08 But I think the ordinance we have right now is good,
12:11:12 and I think it accomplishes the purposes necessary to
12:11:16 accomplish.
12:11:17 I wasn't thrilled about putting ads in these shelters,
12:11:20 but I was convinced because now we have covered
12:11:23 shelters, and we are getting more and more of them.
12:11:26 How many do we have right now, David?
12:11:31 A couple hundred, or 100 or so?
12:11:34 >>> Actually it's close to 300.
12:11:36 We are going to have almost 500 shelters.
12:11:39 >> Right.
12:11:40 And that's something that the Jaycees -- and God love
12:11:43 'em, okay -- were never able to provide.
12:11:45 They gave us these nice benches and they worked, and
12:11:48 they worked for the time that they have.
12:11:50 But now we have a mechanism to get these covered
12:11:53 shelters.
12:11:54 And that, I think, is extremely important and I think
12:11:57 it's good progress.
12:11:58 They look nice.
12:11:59 They provide a function.
12:12:00 They get people out of the sun and the rain, and we

12:12:05 should do everything we can to encourage them.
12:12:07 But we are fighting over the little location.
12:12:08 So my question is, why are we fighting?
12:12:13 Have we run out of locations in the city, bus stops
12:12:17 where they couldn't relocate?
12:12:18 I just read the ordinance.
12:12:19 The ordinance doesn't say throw your benches away,
12:12:22 Jaycees.
12:12:23 The ordinance says, if we put a shelter, a covered
12:12:26 shelter there, and I'm on the Hart board, as you know,
12:12:29 if we put a covered shelter there, they have to mover
12:12:32 the Jaycee bench somewhere else and they don't even
12:12:34 have to pay a new permit fee.
12:12:36 Are we out of bus stops that they could accommodate
12:12:39 these benches?
12:12:41 >>> Very simple question, very simple answer.
12:12:43 No, we are not.
12:12:44 And in fact we have over 3700 bus stops.
12:12:48 I would just mention everyone in the next two years we
12:12:51 will be moving towards 500 shelters which are large
12:12:54 shelters given the number of stops.
12:12:55 So throws plenty of locations in the service area.

12:12:58 We have 1100 square miles of service area to be
12:13:01 providing this.
12:13:02 Ultimately, we should be working together.
12:13:04 We do want to.
12:13:05 But I believe benches are important as are shelters.
12:13:11 Certainly we have more benches than shelters.
12:13:13 So it's a fine line.
12:13:14 But it's very important because I do believe some of
12:13:17 the comments that were just made are inconsistent.
12:13:20 There's a difference between state and local law.
12:13:22 We have to follow the Americans with Disabilities Act.
12:13:23 It's a federal law.
12:13:24 It's very clear.
12:13:25 We understand it.
12:13:26 We have a review with the feds coming to review.
12:13:30 Our federal funds and our project -- and they will be
12:13:32 looking at those complaints that we may have reached
12:13:35 which is why we work closely with the community to
12:13:37 make sure we don't have these problems.
12:13:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If there's any amendment to this
12:13:41 code, and I don't know if it's in there right now or
12:13:43 not, if there's any amendment that needs to go in this

12:13:45 code, based upon what I have observed personally the
12:13:48 pictures that I have seen, it needs to say that if any
12:13:51 bench, I don't care if it's Clark's bench or Jaycees
12:13:54 bench or your bench, Hart's bench, that it can't block
12:13:57 the sidewalk.
12:13:58 And it needs to be consistent with ADA.
12:14:01 I was driving down Swann yesterday with this workshop
12:14:05 in mind, and there was somebody's bench, I am not
12:14:09 going to accuse anybody, but it was somebody's bench,
12:14:12 and it was blocking the sidewalk and leaving about two
12:14:15 and a half feet for a wheelchair to get through.
12:14:19 And that's not right.
12:14:21 That's not right.
12:14:23 So if somebody is looking for us to amend this, that
12:14:26 might be the amendment that we need to look at.
12:14:30 I think that this is silly.
12:14:31 I think Hart can coexist with the Jaycees and metro
12:14:38 but I don't think bringing it here in this direction
12:14:40 is the right way to go.
12:14:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
12:14:43 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I am going to pass, Mr. Chairman.
12:14:45 I don't know that much about these.

12:14:50 I don't think we should have advertising.
12:14:52 It should be public services on those.
12:14:55 And this is a money-making thing.
12:14:57 There's no doubt about it.
12:15:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, sir.
12:15:05 >> May I make a comment?
12:15:09 >> Not yet, Mr. Rocker.
12:15:12 I don't think.
12:15:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Your rules only allow three minutes.
12:15:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to hear from the public right
12:15:19 now.
12:15:19 So those who wish to address council may come forward
12:15:22 at this time.
12:15:22 You have -- I am limiting you to two minutes because
12:15:25 time is going.
12:15:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to hear from him at
12:15:34 the end because he can't say he's part of the public.
12:15:37 He's part of this.
12:15:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I have been told he can speak as the
12:15:42 public.
12:15:43 He may want to give us guidance on that.
12:15:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let's hear from everybody else

12:15:47 first.
12:15:48 Because I think we are limited.
12:15:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me hear what council has to say.
12:15:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The chair has made a determination
12:15:57 that Mr. Taub in his period of time that he would
12:16:00 grant other speakers who might have had the same
12:16:02 opinion the opportunity to speak under public comment.
12:16:05 That was a decision at the time without objection.
12:16:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:16:10 Anyone from the public?
12:16:10 >>> Arizona.
12:16:24 There was old business and new business.
12:16:51 I don't see what the problem is, why we can't all work
12:16:56 together.
12:16:57 Because it's ridiculous.
12:17:03 What you got here is for the public,
12:17:11 Those who don't want to use it don't have to use it.
12:18:05 We have to work together.
12:18:10 >>> Good morning.
12:19:11 My name is Becky Purcell and I am a consumer.
12:19:15 I am also founder and director of a nonprofit called
12:19:19 Yes for American United, for people who have

12:19:23 disabilities in transportation and I also bring a
12:19:26 message from your local transportation board on this
12:19:29 issue.
12:19:32 Being a consumer and a person who uses the buses and
12:19:36 paratransit, I have found that a few years back when I
12:19:40 lost my sight things were not real accessible.
12:19:43 The main word that I want you to remember is ADA.
12:19:47 It's the law.
12:19:48 We need -- we can't change the law.
12:19:51 The law is there to protect us who have disabilities.
12:19:56 I don't say we have to get rid of the Jaycee benches
12:19:58 or any other benches, because they are worthwhile in
12:20:03 places we don't have the shelters.
12:20:05 But let's be honest -- those shelters are much more
12:20:10 accessible to us.
12:20:12 They have opened many doors to mobility.
12:20:15 They have given us access.
12:20:16 They have given us connectivity.
12:20:18 There are things that people with disabilities need to
12:20:21 be equal to anyone else who does not have a
12:20:24 disability.
12:20:25 We don't want to be looked at as people who need and

12:20:29 are always asking for handouts.
12:20:31 We are people just like you.
12:20:32 We put our pants on the same way.
12:20:35 But what we do want is the accommodations that give us
12:20:40 equality, that give us the right to go to work, the
12:20:43 right to go to church, without these accessible means
12:20:47 we can't do those things.
12:20:49 A bench -- and I have run into many of the Jaycee
12:20:52 benches, and I have to say they don't always put them
12:20:57 where it's out of our way.
12:20:59 And as was said with the chair, many times they are in
12:21:04 our paths.
12:21:05 And when we are talking together, and I'm following
12:21:08 Arizona, we can't get through places because of things
12:21:13 placed in our way, not only benches but other things
12:21:15 that we need to look at.
12:21:17 If I understand correctly, under the ADA we don't have
12:21:21 choice.
12:21:22 We cannot change things.
12:21:23 We have to go by what the law says.
12:21:25 The law says make things accommodating to us with
12:21:28 disabilities.

12:21:30 I don't know how else to impress upon you, unless you
12:21:33 yourself would go into a chair or use my cane or take
12:21:39 a walker and use the accessible area.
12:21:42 I just want to thank you for allowing us to come out
12:21:44 and just remember, the law says it's ADA.
12:21:49 Thank you.
12:21:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
12:21:50 Anyone else from the public?
12:21:52 Anyone else from the public?
12:21:53 Okay.
12:21:53 We'll hear now from -- yes, come on.
12:21:57 Two minutes, Mr. Moos and then Mr. Rocker.
12:22:03 >> My name is Andrew Moos with the Florida Jaycees.
12:22:05 I'm the public seating coordinator for the state.
12:22:08 And one of the big issues here with the co-existence
12:22:14 of the benches and shelters is that there are only 300
12:22:21 locations in the City of Tampa where we have our
12:22:24 benches, where they are revenue generating.
12:22:27 Those 300 benches provide the revenue to pay for all
12:22:30 1236 of the benches to exist and be maintained on a
12:22:35 regular basis.
12:22:38 What Hart and signal want to do is take those 300

12:22:42 locations where we are generating revenue to pay for
12:22:44 our programs so that when don't need any tax dollars
12:22:48 or any stimulus packages.
12:22:52 We do it all ourselves.
12:22:54 And without having those 300 locations where we are
12:22:59 able to coexist together and not block each other's
12:23:03 displays on the shelters and the benches, but have
12:23:07 them coexisting, that is the way that we will be able
12:23:10 to continue to provide all of our 1236 benches at the
12:23:16 bus stops for the patrons here in Tampa that ride the
12:23:19 bus.
12:23:21 As far as the ADA issues are concerned, the ADA does
12:23:26 require a 36-inch clearance on each sidewalk, and we
12:23:31 try and maintain a 36-inch clearance on each sidewalk.
12:23:35 However, as you probably have seen in the past, our
12:23:39 375-pound benches are not actually stuck to the
12:23:43 ground.
12:23:43 They can be moved.
12:23:45 It takes a couple of strong guys to move them, but
12:23:48 they can be moved, and oftentimes patrons that ride
12:23:51 the bus do move them, sometimes to a more comfortable
12:23:55 place or where they can see the bus better or

12:23:58 something.
12:23:59 But they are not affixed to the ground.
12:24:02 And because of that, sometimes that 36-inch clearance
12:24:07 on the sidewalk is diminished.
12:24:09 We do on a regular basis go around and try and make
12:24:12 sure that that 36-inch clearance is maintained.
12:24:18 And as councilman Dingfelder said on Swann Avenue, my
12:24:22 office is at Swann and MacDill, and I drive Swann
12:24:26 Avenue every day on my way to Starbuck's on South
12:24:29 Howard, and I can tell you that those benches do have
12:24:34 a 36-inch clearance.
12:24:37 Thank you.
12:24:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
12:24:39 Mr. Rocker.
12:24:45 >>> I will add to what Andrew Moos said, the 1200
12:24:51 benches in round numbers in the city, 400 of them are
12:24:54 devoted totally to the services of ten community
12:24:59 non-profit organizations who sponsor it.
12:25:08 Benches devoted to their purpose.
12:25:11 400 to their use.
12:25:12 500 are purely public seating and are available for
12:25:17 community services or for commercial services on

12:25:24 occasion.
12:25:25 300 are the ones that Andrew spoke of, they are the
12:25:28 engine that pulls the train.
12:25:32 Without them there could be no benches.
12:25:34 And the benches began, and I will tell you how they
12:25:37 began.
12:25:38 A bunch of World War II veterans began them in 1949,
12:25:45 more than 20,000 of us had become members of the
12:25:47 Florida Jaycees chapter.
12:25:51 A Jaycee member in West Palm Beach riding to work
12:25:55 there saw a man standing on crutches at bus stops.
12:26:00 He had one leg.
12:26:02 He was a veteran who had lost a leg.
12:26:05 That Jaycee rode by that man many times and decided
12:26:11 there was no seating anywhere, and there was none in
12:26:14 Florida, in West Palm Beach, or anywhere else.
12:26:17 And he developed a plan which he presented to the
12:26:23 Jaycees in 1950 where the Jaycees could sponsor a
12:26:30 seating service, if they could persuade some of their
12:26:35 members to organize small concerns to operate the
12:26:39 service.
12:26:41 It became known as service companies, they finally

12:26:44 consolidated into the one in Tampa which is the one
12:26:47 today.
12:26:49 I heard something said about money.
12:26:53 There's a quarter.
12:26:53 There's a quarter.
12:26:54 There's a quarter.
12:26:59 That's after tax paid for 2009 from the service.
12:27:03 And the thought that there is a great profit here is
12:27:14 not true.
12:27:15 The service is operated as a quasi-commercial service.
12:27:19 That's what we did in Jaycees.
12:27:22 Thank you very much.
12:27:22 (Bell sounds).
12:27:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Now before councilman Dingfelder, I
12:27:25 need to hear from counsel.
12:27:31 Public comment?
12:27:31 Okay.
12:27:34 >>> Good morning.
12:27:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public?
12:27:36 I thought everybody -- I thought he was the last one.
12:27:39 Anyone else want to speak?
12:27:40 If you want to speak, you need to come line up.

12:27:43 You are the last public speaker.
12:27:44 >>> Gina Torres, and I'm the bicycle planner for
12:27:48 metropolitan planning organization.
12:27:50 I'm also a resident of southeast Seminole Heights,
12:27:52 which is a very active transit route on route 2, by
12:27:56 the way.
12:27:57 I just wanted to impress upon the council that we do
12:28:00 get a lot of people coming to the bicycle pedestrian
12:28:03 advisory committee concerned about their ability to
12:28:05 move around in the city and the county as well.
12:28:08 We spent several meetings looking at pictures and
12:28:10 discussing how we can improve the corridor for the
12:28:13 movement of people who are walking and cycling and
12:28:18 trying to use modes of transportation because this is
12:28:19 accessing transit, the sidewalks really add to our
12:28:22 ability to get around town without everything to drive
12:28:24 in a car.
12:28:27 We have spent many meetings talking about these
12:28:30 issues.
12:28:30 And I just don't think the concern is the fact that we
12:28:33 have the benches, it's that they are not being
12:28:36 maintained properly in the right locations.

12:28:38 We have moved on now from wood to cement and I would
12:28:44 prefer to see shelters in the future and maybe one day
12:28:47 look back and be amazed that we didn't have shelters
12:28:50 everywhere, but we had benches, and they are great.
12:28:54 I'm glad that we have them.
12:28:55 I don't like seeing people stand at bus stops but
12:28:58 let's make sure they are in the right locations, are
12:29:01 not competing with these wonderful shelters that are
12:29:03 protecting folks from the weather and from -- it's
12:29:07 protection from the wind and rain and all the other
12:29:09 things that Arizona and Becky were talking about.
12:29:11 So we are supportive of the MPO.
12:29:14 These benches are wonderful places but they need to be
12:29:17 maintained, out of the bikeway, or at least out of the
12:29:20 path of folks using the sidewalks.
12:29:22 So thank you for allowing me a couple minutes here.
12:29:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just have Ms. Cole to come and
12:29:28 let me just say to all of you here today, I will tell
12:29:31 you now that I'm always about fairness.
12:29:37 To Hartline, I was on the county commission and we
12:29:39 voted allowing you to advertise.
12:29:41 Okay?

12:29:41 Before then you were not permitted to advertise.
12:29:44 It's my understanding from counsel it's made a bigger
12:29:50 issue because you are now advertising.
12:29:52 Okay.
12:29:54 There has to be a balance.
12:29:55 There has to be a balance.
12:29:56 In other words, everybody now in the right-of-way has
12:29:58 to be treated --
12:30:04 >>JULIA COLE: Need to be treated the same.
12:30:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Need to be treated the same.
12:30:07 That's the difference.
12:30:08 Because you now have advertising in those shelters.
12:30:11 Therefore that means as council we have to treat
12:30:13 everybody the same when they are using the public
12:30:16 right-of-way.
12:30:18 Now, we can do one of two things.
12:30:20 One, it is my understanding that we have in place
12:30:24 already a mechanism to address this issue.
12:30:27 Is that right, Ms. Cole?
12:30:29 >>JULIA COLE: That's correct.
12:30:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You tell me if I'm wrong.
12:30:32 Something in place to address this issue that

12:30:35 everybody will be treated fairly.
12:30:37 Okay?
12:30:40 Two, if we are not satisfied with that, the city can
12:30:44 franchise the right-of-way.
12:30:47 Is that correct?
12:30:48 >>JULIA COLE: We have to look at legally how to do
12:30:50 that but we have done that in other situations.
12:30:52 >> And that way it becomes a money-making venture for
12:30:56 the city.
12:30:58 So the question for me is, Mr. Armijo, Mr. Moos, can
12:31:04 you all go back and work out a compromise where the
12:31:10 two of you all can work together, and make sure that
12:31:12 everybody is benefiting?
12:31:19 Not about economics but where both of you all are
12:31:21 benefiting?
12:31:21 I want both of you all to go back and say we are going
12:31:24 to work with the city staff so that we can work
12:31:26 together, so that Tom Scott won't put a motion on the
12:31:29 floor that says we are going to franchise the city
12:31:32 right-of-way.
12:31:33 Believe me, anybody knows me by now I will not
12:31:36 hesitate to do that.

12:31:37 Also, let me say to the Jaycees, based on some of
12:31:43 these pictures, these are blocking the -- some of
12:31:47 these benches are blocking where they pushed it.
12:31:53 You can't dop that, okay?
12:31:55 And those things clearly you are blocking the
12:31:58 pedestrian right-of-way for access.
12:32:00 You need to correct that.
12:32:02 But any day I want the fairness.
12:32:07 Mr. Armijo, Mr. Moos, do you know what I'm saying?
12:32:12 You can work this out.
12:32:13 Otherwise, I will explore the franchising the
12:32:18 right-of-way.
12:32:21 Councilman Dingfelder.
12:32:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I think, Mr. Chairman, I know
12:32:26 you and I right now are pretty much on the same page,
12:32:29 and perhaps other members of council.
12:32:32 We have to treat everyone the same.
12:32:33 That's the law.
12:32:34 Equal protection under the law.
12:32:38 But treating everyone the same means that all those
12:32:42 benches and shelters need to be ADA compliant.
12:32:46 And maybe we need to add that to the ordinance.

12:32:48 And number two, treating them the same means that
12:32:53 right now, guess what, Hartline is a public entity,
12:32:56 and Hartline's financial books are open to everybody
12:32:59 in the public.
12:33:00 All you have to do is go online and you can see every
12:33:03 single aspect of Hartline's funds and how we spend
12:33:07 money and what our arrangement is with the private
12:33:10 entity, et cetera, et cetera.
12:33:11 But if we are talking about tit for tat then I would
12:33:15 say and suggest to the private entity that works with
12:33:17 the Jaycees that they would need to open their books,
12:33:21 okay, and be audited annually by the city folks, just
12:33:26 like we do with many other private entities that we
12:33:28 work with, because you can't come in here and plead
12:33:31 poverty without us being able to see what you're
12:33:33 talking about.
12:33:34 And if in fact you are losing these 300 opportunities
12:33:38 and it's going to put you out of business, fine, then
12:33:42 bring your books in here and show us every single in
12:33:44 and out, what people are making, and any profit
12:33:48 margins, et cetera, et cetera, how much money is going
12:33:51 into the Jaycees themselves or to these private

12:33:54 companies, public entities, in terms of cash
12:33:58 contributions, not in-kind contributions, and then we
12:34:02 could talk about that.
12:34:03 But you can't have it both ways.
12:34:05 So I agree with Mr. Chairman.
12:34:07 I believe that Mr. Daignault is the head of public
12:34:10 works and public right-of-way can continue to work
12:34:13 with Hartline and the Jaycees on this issue, and I
12:34:17 would suggest, not messing with council anymore
12:34:20 because you might not like where you end up.
12:34:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Two points.
12:34:25 At the end of today I am going to give the Hartline
12:34:27 book to our code enforcement people because like Julia
12:34:30 said wove rules, we have not been enforcing our code
12:34:33 which means that you can't put things in the middle of
12:34:34 the sidewalk.
12:34:35 Secondly, I think that as City Council, our
12:34:40 constituents are our boss.
12:34:42 Our constituents benefit from having a shelter.
12:34:48 If you put a bench up next to the shelter, if I were
12:34:53 somebody waiting at the bus stop I would rather have a
12:34:55 shelter because I would appreciate the protection.

12:34:57 I think that's who our constituents -- I think that's
12:35:01 what our constituents, the public, want is protection
12:35:04 from the storm.
12:35:05 And I think that given that that is who we are
12:35:11 supposed to be serving, whoever can give a better
12:35:13 quality experience while they are waiting for
12:35:15 transportation, that should be the priority, because
12:35:18 we are comparing kumquats and avocados.
12:35:23 I think the public needs the best possible experience.
12:35:26 Our writers riders, the riders of public transit,
12:35:29 deserve protection.
12:35:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ms. Cole, will you come up again?
12:35:33 Listen, folks, we have to abide by what the law says,
12:35:36 and what our ordinance says.
12:35:38 Will you state again what our job is as City Council?
12:35:42 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
12:35:45 Maybe I wasn't as articulate as I would have liked to
12:35:48 have been when I started in front of you to begin
12:35:51 with.
12:35:52 We are acting as regulators of right-of-way, this is
12:35:55 very different than having a franchise.
12:35:56 We are obligated to grant permits in a fair and equal

12:36:01 way, we have to look at who comes into the
12:36:04 right-of-way first and deal with everybody fairly.
12:36:07 That is really the issue as it relates to the
12:36:10 regulation.
12:36:11 The ADA issue really is a separate issue and we can
12:36:15 look at that more if you like to.
12:36:17 And that's what our obligation S.not withstanding
12:36:19 what's in the code, not withstanding how it's drafted,
12:36:22 a little bit older code, that is our obligation.
12:36:25 And there are right-of-way use permit process, staff
12:36:27 has really endeavored, and Mr. Daignault can get into
12:36:32 more detail if you would like him to, to ensure that
12:36:34 when you have a transit shelter, that there's an
12:36:39 opportunity for co-location, as a bench, so that we
12:36:43 can accommodate those existing benches that may have
12:36:45 been permitted in certain locations for a period of
12:36:47 time, and the transit shelter.
12:36:50 It is made more complicated because they have
12:36:53 advertising on it and I -- it is part of the
12:36:57 conversation because of where we are in our regulatory
12:37:00 authority.
12:37:02 So that is what staff has been doing through their

12:37:05 regulatory authority through the right-of-way use
12:37:07 permit process, and has been working with both Hart
12:37:10 and the Jaycees through this permit process to come up
12:37:13 with a compromise that would allow co-location, and in
12:37:17 my legal opinion, that is probably the best
12:37:19 opportunity that we have to ensure that we are both
12:37:22 acting as regulators in the right-of-way in a fair and
12:37:26 equal manner, but also allowing the accommodation of
12:37:30 what I think everybody does feel from what I am
12:37:32 hearing today is a need for actual shelter versus just
12:37:35 a bus bench.
12:37:36 So that's where worry as regulators.
12:37:39 And when talk a little about the ADA issues, if you
12:37:42 would like to see the issues in our code dealing with
12:37:44 that.
12:37:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I want to stress the issue as
12:37:47 regulators, the issues of fairness.
12:37:51 Okay?
12:37:52 Whether you have advertising or not, at the end of the
12:37:56 day, as regulators, we have to be fair in the city's
12:38:00 right-of-way.
12:38:01 Okay?

12:38:01 Now, the question I raise one more time is, Mr.
12:38:07 Armijo, Mr. Moos, come to the mike.
12:38:11 I want to hear from you all.
12:38:13 You all have attorneys but I want to hear from you on
12:38:15 the record.
12:38:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You aren't going to make them kiss,
12:38:19 are you?
12:38:19 [ Laughter ]
12:38:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
12:38:20 I want to hear that you can coordinate this, a
12:38:25 mechanism in place, I want to hear from you today that
12:38:27 you all are going to work through this.
12:38:29 >>> Yes, sir, we will.
12:38:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:38:34 >> We need specifics.
12:38:35 I am committed on behalf of Hart to meet with Mr. Moos
12:38:40 within the next 30 days in an attempt to hammer out a
12:38:43 process.
12:38:45 We have been doing this for two years, and it's not
12:38:48 happened.
12:38:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Bring Mr. Daignault.
12:38:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: At the end of the day, I want to be

12:38:57 fair and make sure, because both of you all advertise.
12:39:02 Okay?
12:39:02 And I supported that.
12:39:03 And we worked out an agreement that I thought was
12:39:08 working.
12:39:08 I want the same thing here.
12:39:11 Do I need to stress again?
12:39:16 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I echo your words.
12:39:18 We need to be fair.
12:39:20 I'm looking at picture 21 here, where there's a bench,
12:39:24 and then there's evidently some buttons for people
12:39:26 across the red light, whatever is there, and I don't
12:39:28 know how they do it, but we need to correct these.
12:39:33 We have to work together.
12:39:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do I need to say anything else?
12:39:37 Legal, do you need to say anything else?
12:39:40 Okay.
12:39:40 Then we stand --
12:39:42 >> We are adjourned.
12:39:43 >>GWEN MILLER: I need an announcement.
12:39:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you all very much.
12:39:47 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to make a motion, give a

12:39:50 commendation for the Alpha Kappa sorority for her
12:39:56 outstanding service for years in community services.
12:40:00 I will present it to her.
12:40:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
12:40:03 All in favor say Aye.
12:40:06 Okay.
12:40:06 Yes.
12:40:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Before you leave just a clarification
12:40:10 on behalf of the clerk's office.
12:40:11 A motion was made on February 19th by council
12:40:13 member Dingfelder, seconded by council member Miranda
12:40:17 that Brad Baird, director of the water department, was
12:40:20 requested to appear before council and provide weekly
12:40:22 reports beginning on March 5th regarding water
12:40:25 conservation measures.
12:40:28 An explanation on what it takes to produce and provide
12:40:29 water to over 630,000 people each day.
12:40:32 Further, that said reports can be verbal, written, or
12:40:35 pictorial.
12:40:36 I spoke with Mr. Dingfelder.
12:40:39 He would like that clarified to be rather than weekly
12:40:42 reports, but the motion amended to say reports at each

12:40:46 council meeting -- at each regular council meeting,
12:40:50 and to have that, rather than have him appear, strike
12:40:56 that and the report can be --
12:40:58 We don't have a full council S.that something we need
12:41:00 to vote on now?
12:41:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, it's on for March 5.
12:41:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have a meeting tonight at five,
12:41:08 right?
12:41:09 5:30.
12:41:10 5:30.
12:41:11 Okay.
12:41:12 Do we need anything?
12:41:13 Motion to receive and file?
12:41:14 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.
12:41:19 Second.
12:41:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
12:41:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We stand in recess till 5:30.
12:41:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have a special discussion
12:41:26 meeting at 1:30 on bicycles.
12:41:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
12:41:32


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