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Thursday, March 5, 2009
9:00 a.m. Session

09:06:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
09:06:23 order.
09:06:24 Roll call?
09:06:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:06:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:06:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:06:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.

09:06:33 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:06:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:06:37 We will first have the ceremonial items.
09:06:44 Well, I guess we need to go through the agenda first.
09:06:49 And bring those issues up.
09:06:50 Mr. Shelby?
09:06:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: --
09:06:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have two items here.
09:06:56 I don't know whether we want to do that.
09:06:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Are you prepared to go forward with
09:07:00 the ceremonial items?
09:07:01 Are those people present?
09:07:03 Do those first.
09:07:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's fine.
09:07:04 Okay.
09:07:05 Item number one, who's going to represent -- that's
09:07:15 Janet Hamilton in the water department.
09:07:17 Appear and extend a formal invitation to the council
09:07:21 to attend the Women's History Month celebration to be
09:07:24 held on March 10.
09:07:25 Okay.
09:07:28 >> Good morning.

09:07:28 I'm Janet Hamilton, executive aide in the water
09:07:31 department.
09:07:32 The 2009 planning committee chair for the 13th annual
09:07:35 city of Tampa Women's History Month celebration.
09:07:37 Each year March is designated national Women's History
09:07:41 Month to ensure the history of American women are
09:07:45 recognized and celebrated throughout schools,
09:07:47 communities, and organizations.
09:07:48 The national theme this year is women taking the lead
09:07:52 to save the planet.
09:07:53 I have brought members of the planning committee with
09:07:56 me today.
09:07:56 To extend a formal invitation to all City Council
09:07:59 members, city staff and the public to join us right
09:08:03 here next Tuesday, the 10th from 11 to noon.
09:08:07 For the celebration.
09:08:08 It is during this time that we pay tribute to
09:08:11 Josephine Howard Stafford, assistant city attorney for
09:08:15 24 years.
09:08:16 She was a pioneer in both her community and in her
09:08:20 profession.
09:08:20 And each year we celebrate either a current or a

09:08:23 former city of Tampa female employee and give her an
09:08:28 award.
09:08:29 At this time, we'd like to publicly announce that the
09:08:31 winner of this year's Josephine Howard Stafford
09:08:35 memorial award is rose Ferlita, Hillsborough County
09:08:38 commissioner and former City Council woman.
09:08:42 [ Applause ]
09:08:46 >> We are quite excited and have a wonderful lineup
09:08:50 for the celebration.
09:08:51 That includes mayor Iorio and councilwoman Mary
09:08:55 Mulhern.
09:08:56 This year, 6:00 in-house anchor Gayle Sierens will be
09:09:00 our mistress of ceremony.
09:09:02 We have invited Roberta Fernandez to be our keynote
09:09:06 speaker, the president and founder of planet
09:09:09 partnership.
09:09:10 Entertainments will be provided by style quartet.
09:09:17 That's a division of the sweet Adelaides
09:09:20 international.
09:09:20 We hope you will be able to join us next Tuesday right
09:09:23 here in City Council chambers from 11 till noon,
09:09:25 Tuesday, March 10th.

09:09:27 And help us celebrate commissioner Ferlita winning
09:09:31 this award.
09:09:32 This committee has worked very hard to gather and we
09:09:34 hope that you will all come and enjoy the celebration
09:09:37 with us.
09:09:38 Thank you very much for your time.
09:09:39 We truly appreciate it.
09:09:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, congratulations.
09:09:45 She was deserving of the award.
09:09:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: However, on Tuesday it's impossible
09:09:50 for me to be here because I'm at another job.
09:09:54 >> We will forgive you this time, Charlie.
09:09:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I'm looking at the right ones,
09:09:59 all of you I know can save the earth.
09:10:01 [ Laughter ]
09:10:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:10:04 [ Applause ]
09:10:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Shelby, the draft is on the
09:10:13 resolution?
09:10:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, Mr. Chairman.
09:10:15 I prepared that resolution, including the name of
09:10:19 commissioner rose Ferlita, the honorable rose Ferlita.

09:10:23 That is given to the clerk and ready for council's
09:10:26 approval.
09:10:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Been moved and second.
09:10:29 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:10:33 Opposes?
09:10:38 [ MOTION CARRIED ]
09:10:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then we move towards review of the
09:10:44 agenda.
09:10:45 >> Good morning, Mr. chairman, members of City Council
09:10:47 before you, in the Goldenrod color, you have the
09:10:50 addendum to the agenda.
09:10:52 New business items.
09:10:54 Do you wish to do that?
09:10:56 It is for a request for future date.
09:11:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
09:11:02 >> Item 22 is a request by assistant city attorney
09:11:06 Robin McKinney to substitute conditional settlement
09:11:09 agreement.
09:11:10 Item 56 is a public hearing.
09:11:13 It will be taken up at that time, designated time.
09:11:20 It's a request to substitute the ordinance to clearing
09:11:23 describe the conditions of the easement as requested

09:11:25 by the wastewater department at first reading.
09:11:28 The continuance or removal of items, items 3 and 4
09:11:32 relating to the settlements with Clear Channel Outdoor
09:11:35 and CBS Outdoor regarding outdoor advertising have
09:11:38 been requested by senior assistant city attorney Julia
09:11:42 Cole to remove those items from the agenda.
09:11:45 Item 68 is a request to remove this from the agenda
09:11:49 since the first public hearing was moved to the
09:11:51 July 2009 text amendment cycle.
09:11:54 Item 86 is a public hearing at C 08-14, petition,
09:12:03 public hearing on the petition of the Italian Club at
09:12:05 Tampa.
09:12:06 This will be taken up at 1:30, but to inform the
09:12:09 public, there has been a letter received from Ann
09:12:11 Pollock, petitioner's representative requesting a
09:12:14 continuance to April 16, 2009.
09:12:16 Item number 70 is to add to the item the adoption of a
09:12:23 resolution stating the intent to use the uniform
09:12:26 method of levying and collecting non-ad valorem
09:12:29 assessments and again a reminder that must be approved
09:12:32 prior to the closing of the public hearing.
09:12:34 Items number 75 and 83, I believe were designated as

09:12:40 written reports, request by councilmember Saul-Sena to
09:12:43 have the legal department present when those items are
09:12:46 heard.
09:12:46 And to have them be prepared to discuss them.
09:12:49 Items removed from the committee reports for
09:12:53 discussion or separate vote.
09:12:54 Item number 7 was a request by the administration to
09:12:57 have the staff reports at 10:30 for the discussion of
09:13:01 the collective bargaining agreement with the
09:13:04 international association of firefighters.
09:13:05 And item 22 has been requested for removal by
09:13:10 councilmember Dingfelder for a separate vote.
09:13:13 Those are the only changes that I have before me,
09:13:17 Mr. Chairman, unless there are any others, I ask that
09:13:20 the agenda be approved as amended.
09:13:23 >> Thank you.
09:13:25 >>JULIA COLE: I wanted to bring counsel's attention to
09:13:27 items 2 and 3.
09:13:28 I think that it's to council's credit that the reason
09:13:32 that these were requested for removal is because the
09:13:34 administration after hearing the conversation of
09:13:37 council, decided that we needed to go back and rethink

09:13:42 those things.
09:13:42 So I congratulate all of us for raising this issue to
09:13:46 the level of consideration by...
09:13:51 >> Three and four.
09:13:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:13:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, if I may offer a
09:13:57 suggestion to the chair, it's hard enough to keep
09:14:00 going from 60 to 22, 20 to 15 to 5. if the attorney
09:14:05 could set the ones that are going to be discussed in a
09:14:09 chronological order, so that the public can say, one,
09:14:13 12, 18, and we can follow it.
09:14:16 And they can follow it much easier.
09:14:18 It's very difficult for someone that has this and has
09:14:21 to go through changing of the numbers and changing
09:14:24 pages.
09:14:24 It's just harder to get to.
09:14:26 It's up to you all.
09:14:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's fine.
09:14:33 I will do that in the future.
09:14:34 One other addition, Mr. Chairman, with regards to the
09:14:37 appeal hearing that is scheduled for 1:30, that's item
09:14:41 87, the last item on the agenda, the appeal hearing

09:14:45 regarding university of Tampa appeal of the decision
09:14:48 of the variance review board regarding property at 123
09:14:51 south Hyde Park avenue, it is my understanding that
09:14:55 both attorneys for the applicant and the petitioner --
09:15:02 excuse me, the appellate and the applicant,
09:15:04 Mr. Bentley and Mr. Mechanik are going to be
09:15:07 requesting a continuance of that hearing.
09:15:09 They will be here approximately 10:00.
09:15:13 And ask that council entertain the discussion, just
09:15:17 very briefly, to inform the public to avoid them
09:15:21 having to come down at 1:30, during which time they
09:15:23 will formally make that request.
09:15:25 So I just ask that council give them that courtesy
09:15:28 when they arrive.
09:15:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:15:33 >> Move.
09:15:33 >> Second.
09:15:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:15:35 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:15:38 Opposes?
09:15:40 [ MOTION CARRIED ]
09:15:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have set aside 30 minutes for

09:15:44 public comments.
09:15:47 At this time you may come, state your name and address
09:15:48 for the record.
09:15:49 You have three minutes.
09:15:50 You have three minutes to bring any issues you may
09:15:56 have before council.
09:16:01 >> Good morning, folks.
09:16:03 My name is Allen Snell, 1203 East POWHATAN avenue.
09:16:08 Director of southwest Florida bicycle united dealers,
09:16:11 SWFBUD.
09:16:11 I'm here to thank councilwoman Linda Saul-Sena for a
09:16:16 bicycle discussion that we had along with councilwoman
09:16:21 Mary Mulhern and several staff members regarding
09:16:24 bicycling in the city of Tampa.
09:16:29 The councilmen has written a memo, so I won't repeat
09:16:32 what she wrote.
09:16:33 But I do want to amplify a couple key points.
09:16:37 Number one, it is good to see the city beginning to go
09:16:40 on the path of looking at bicycling as more than just
09:16:43 a recreational leisure activity, where you want to
09:16:46 funnel bicycling off the roads.
09:16:48 That's one part of bicycling.

09:16:52 It is not the entire picture of bicycling.
09:16:55 Here in the city of Tampa, we need to get a mentality
09:16:57 in the public works department to make our roads
09:17:01 accommodating to bicyclists so they can use the roads
09:17:05 as transportation arteries.
09:17:07 It's a key point.
09:17:08 It's something which we plan to follow up on.
09:17:11 I'm not asking the city of Tampa to become a Portland
09:17:15 or Minneapolis or boulder, Colorado overnight.
09:17:19 You folks can't do that.
09:17:20 However, what I am asking is that you simply comply
09:17:23 with your own comp plan.
09:17:26 I have brought a copy of the bicycle component of your
09:17:29 comp plan.
09:17:30 Your coverage plan specifically lays out things that
09:17:34 right now your public works transportation and traffic
09:17:36 folks are not complying with.
09:17:38 Point-blank, I'll be happy to talk with you folks
09:17:41 about some very particular situations where I think
09:17:44 they're in violation.
09:17:45 I want to submit the bicycle component of your comp
09:17:49 plan for the record, so you folks understand what I'm

09:17:52 looking for.
09:17:59 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
09:17:59 Maybe we can get copies.
09:18:02 >> SWFBUD is holding what is the biggest bicycle
09:18:05 festival in Florida on October 11.
09:18:06 I want to personally invite all your folks to attend.
09:18:10 It's October 11th, a regional bicycle festival.
09:18:13 We get all kinds of bicyclists through the entire
09:18:16 region.
09:18:17 I'll supply more information as the day comes closer.
09:18:20 I think the city of Tampa stands to making a move to
09:18:25 become competitive in bicycling in terms of making the
09:18:28 roads safe and accommodating, hospitable for all
09:18:32 bicyclists in the city. thanks a lot.
09:18:34 >> LINDA SAUL-SENA: thank you for coming down here.
09:18:39 Excuse me, can we get copies, clerk?
09:18:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
09:18:44 Anyone else wish to address our council?
09:18:47 Okay.
09:18:47 Seeing none, we will move to items on the agenda.
09:18:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Would you like me to bring up that
09:18:59 memo?

09:19:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: THAT'S FINE. move to the committee
09:19:02 reports.
09:19:03 Next thing ON.
09:19:05 >> Question about THE reconsideration portion.
09:19:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:19:08 Go ahead.
09:19:09 >> I have a request that last week, you entertained
09:19:12 several motions regarding the local vendor ordinance.
09:19:15 And one thing that was not clear was the specifying an
09:19:20 ordinance be brought back within that time frame.
09:19:22 A draft ordinance for the City Council to consider.
09:19:24 And my concern is that if they don't come back with a
09:19:28 draft ordinance, then, at that 60 day window, you're
09:19:32 going to have another 60 days to come back with a
09:19:34 draft ordinance.
09:19:35 I'd like to ask the council to make a motion that a
09:19:38 draft ordinance be brought back at the same time
09:19:41 within that 60-day timeframe.
09:19:43 >> So moved.
09:19:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That sounds very reasonable.
09:19:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So then the motion then is that the
09:19:52 group that appointed with Mr. Spearman bring a draft

09:19:57 ordinance back along with the attorney?
09:20:02 >> The motion was to bring back some recommendations.
09:20:06 What I was requesting is that those recommendations
09:20:08 come back along with a draft ordinance to accompany
09:20:10 it.
09:20:11 So that at least if there is some movement on that by
09:20:14 council, you can take some action instead of directing
09:20:17 somebody to come back within two weeks, or four weeks,
09:20:20 which would prolong the process.
09:20:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, well, I'll support the motion,
09:20:25 but don't mean I'll support it.
09:20:27 >> I understand that.
09:20:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Got to understand that.
09:20:29 That's two different things.
09:20:30 One thing to support a motion, to bring from the back.
09:20:32 Another thing to support it.
09:20:35 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:20:37 Opposes?
09:20:38 >>Thank you.
09:20:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, we'll move to the safety
09:20:38 committee. councilwoman Miller.
09:20:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr Chairman. I move items 5,

09:20:52 6, 8, 9 and 10.
09:20:54 >> Second.
09:20:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:20:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 7, we are holding till 10:30.
09:21:03 >> Second.
09:21:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We pulled that. All in favor signify
09:21:09 by saying aye.
09:21:10 Councilwoman Saul-Sena -- councilwoman Miller.
09:21:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you Mr. Chairman, I move items 11
09:21:18 through 19.
09:21:20 >> Second.
09:21:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second for item 11 through
09:21:24 19.
09:21:25 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:21:27 Opposed same thing.
09:21:28 [ MOTION CARRIED ]
09:21:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, public works committee.
09:21:31 Councilman Charlie Miranda.
09:21:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you Mr. Chairman.
09:21:36 Moves items 20 and 21.
09:21:38 >> Second.
09:21:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.

09:21:39 Second by councilwoman Linda Saul-Sena.
09:21:43 Signify by saying aye.
09:21:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you Mr. Chairman, I wanted to
09:21:46 make a few comments under items under parks, rec and
09:21:49 culture.
09:21:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We just did that, but I'll come back
09:21:54 and give you the opportunity to address that.
09:21:55 Finance committee, councilman Joseph Caetano, in the
09:21:59 absence of councilwoman Mulhern.
09:22:02 Item 22 through 28.
09:22:03 >> JOSEPH CAETANO: MR. Chairman, i want to move items
09:22:07 22, which was moved, I guess we are going --
09:22:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We pulled that one.
09:22:13 >> We pulled that one.
09:22:15 23 to 28.
09:22:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:22:24 Is there a second?
09:22:26 >> Second.
09:22:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Items 22 through 28.
09:22:30 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:22:32 Oppose same sign.
09:22:33 Building and zoning department, committee, rather

09:22:36 councilman Joseph P. Caetano again.
09:22:38 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I want to move items 29 to 45.
09:22:43 >> Second.
09:22:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:22:44 Second by councilman Miranda, all in favor signify by
09:22:48 saying aye.
09:22:49 Opposes?
09:22:51 [ MOTION CARRIED ]
09:22:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to comment, part of this is
09:22:55 directing loans to nick Jammal for the cigar factory
09:22:58 he renovated.
09:23:00 I wanted to point out he did such an extraordinary job
09:23:02 of renovating it.
09:23:04 It's really a showplace now.
09:23:07 >> Okay.
09:23:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Transportation committee -- well, we
09:23:11 have councilman Dingfelder and Mulhern not here.
09:23:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move items 46 through 55.
09:23:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Second.
09:23:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:23:24 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:23:26 Opposes, same sign.

09:23:28 That concludes all of our committee reports.
09:23:30 Go back to councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:23:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:23:35 Under the parks, rec and culture committee are some
09:23:37 expenditures that are going to be extremely positive
09:23:40 and significant for the community.
09:23:41 The first one number 11 is for the LED lighting at the
09:23:45 Tampa museum of art.
09:23:46 When you look at the design of a new Tampa museum of
09:23:49 art, most outstanding thing about it is the famous
09:23:55 peeled skin perforated by holes.
09:23:58 The LED lighting is going to be behind that and
09:24:00 actually be an artwork in and of itself.
09:24:02 The lighting will change in patterns and colors.
09:24:04 And it's going to be outstanding.
09:24:06 It was a great concern to me we were building the
09:24:09 museum without the real punch line of the design.
09:24:11 And I'm so pleased in item 11 that we are going to
09:24:14 appropriate the money to allow the lighting to be
09:24:16 installed at the appropriate time.
09:24:19 And secondly, I want to talk about some of the other,
09:24:22 the other resolutions in here are all going to be very

09:24:27 much for the enhancement of the community, the Kiley
09:24:32 gardens improvements.
09:24:33 The Seminole Heights garden center.
09:24:37 Sculpture.
09:24:37 And the memo about a multiuse trail, which will allow
09:24:43 us to have increased access for bicyclists.
09:24:48 So I'm very pleased about the items in this. I wanted
09:24:51 to bring them to everyone's attention.
09:24:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:24:54 Okay, we still have five minutes, we take up 9:30
09:24:59 items.
09:25:01 Take up new business if you all want to do that.
09:25:03 Councilwoman Miller, do you have anything you want to
09:25:06 do?
09:25:09 Councilwoman Saul-Sena?
09:25:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:25:12 I have an item for all the councilmembers.
09:25:15 It's a -- I'd like to read it if I could, it is a memo
09:25:21 about protecting historic resources.
09:25:23 As council members, we have a responsibility, working
09:25:25 in concert with the administration, to have an
09:25:27 effective system of protection for our historic

09:25:30 resources.
09:25:30 While we have made some progress, as evidenced by the
09:25:33 enactment in January of our demolition by neglect
09:25:37 ordinance, we still have inadequate patchwork of
09:25:40 protection available for our community.
09:25:42 There should not be a single historic structure that
09:25:44 has code violations that have not been cited.
09:25:47 And had enforcement pending.
09:25:52 Fortunately, our code enforcement directors are
09:25:55 working together.
09:25:56 However, the legal department needs to work closely
09:25:58 with them to fill in the gaps in both the codes and
09:26:01 the process for achieving compliance.
09:26:02 I propose a workshop on Thursday, March 26, for staff
09:26:06 to present their progress addressing the following
09:26:09 issues.
09:26:10 If the historic property is under citation for code
09:26:13 violations, and the owner petitions for rezoning, the
09:26:16 code enforcement process freezes, so repairs aren't
09:26:19 made.
09:26:20 If a property owner fails to maintain their building,
09:26:22 they can forestall fines by claiming that they will be

09:26:26 coming forth with a plan for the property.
09:26:27 Our inspectors need legal authorization for access
09:26:31 inside commercial properties which they suspect of
09:26:34 violations.
09:26:35 The administration needs to clarify which department
09:26:37 is responsible as the lead agency for historic
09:26:41 protection.
09:26:41 The structure of code enforcement process needs to be
09:26:44 clear and timely, where historic properties are in
09:26:50 danger.
09:26:50 The public should be able to check status of
09:26:52 endangered properties and know when and where they can
09:26:55 testify.
09:26:55 Are you listening, Mr. Fletcher?
09:26:58 You don't have to say anything.
09:26:59 I just want you to be listening.
09:27:01 Thank you.
09:27:02 And the economic advantages of property ownership and
09:27:05 historic district result in higher property values,
09:27:08 which we need to document as part of the reason why we
09:27:11 need to protect historic properties.
09:27:13 So, the results of this memo is a request that the

09:27:17 staff consider it and present their progress
09:27:20 addressing the following issues on Thursday,
09:27:22 March 26th, under workshops.
09:27:25 I don't think it would take more than 20 minutes.
09:27:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a motion?
09:27:30 >> Yes.
09:27:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second?
09:27:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'll bring it back later.
09:27:37 >> Mr. Chairman, I think something like this should be
09:27:39 brought to us prior to the meeting.
09:27:41 Okay?
09:27:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Would you like us to consider it in
09:27:45 two weeks?
09:27:47 >> I'm not going to give you an answer.
09:27:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the process is, on the new
09:27:50 business, you can bring items to be voted on or added
09:27:53 to a future workshop.
09:27:55 That is the process.
09:27:56 Clearly, I think, Ms. Saul-Sena, you are within the
09:27:58 process.
09:28:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'll be happy to bring this up
09:28:02 later, Mr. Chairman.

09:28:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, we are on it now.
09:28:04 Okay.
09:28:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'll bring it up later.
09:28:07 The second thing I'd like to bring up is the, the --
09:28:15 Mary, I don't know if you got a copy of this, the
09:28:19 bicycle special discussion meeting that we had, I
09:28:21 provided a writeup for all the councilmembers that was
09:28:25 sort of a synopsis of the meeting.
09:28:27 It was called bicycle friendly communities special
09:28:32 discussion.
09:28:33 There were a few key points in this.
09:28:37 And the most significant is that the administration,
09:28:42 it's a request of the administration to identify a
09:28:46 transportation department staff member as the point
09:28:49 person or advocate for bicycle planning and
09:28:52 implementation.
09:28:53 Currently, that's being done by the parks and rec
09:28:57 department because they assumed that bicycle riding is
09:29:01 a recreational activity rather than a transportation
09:29:04 activity.
09:29:04 It became evident in our conversation that we needed
09:29:09 to shift bicycling to the transportation department as

09:29:15 a bona fide mode of transportation.
09:29:18 And Currently there is no staff person -- I'm not
09:29:20 suggesting we hire somebody.
09:29:22 I'm just suggesting we identify an existing staff
09:29:24 member in transportation to take that role.
09:29:27 So my request is that the, I'm going to give this to
09:29:31 the clerk.
09:29:32 I'd like to share this with the administration, but I
09:29:34 feel the most significant thing that came from our
09:29:38 conversation with, which is a very in-depth and
09:29:41 comprehensive conversation, is a request that the
09:29:43 transportation department consider identifying a staff
09:29:47 member in the transportation department to be the
09:29:50 point person or advocate for bicycle planning.
09:29:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second to that motion?
09:29:54 >> Second.
09:29:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second that a request be
09:29:58 made to the administration to consider appointing a
09:30:01 point person for transportation department for
09:30:05 bicycling, all in favor signify by saying aye.
09:30:07 Opposes?
09:30:09 [ MOTION CARRIED ]

09:30:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anything else?
09:30:16 >> I think the idea of setting a workshop on historic
09:30:19 resources, allow the staff to consider these things, I
09:30:24 can try and make my motion again.
09:30:28 >> I made the motion to set the workshop.
09:30:32 >> I'll second that.
09:30:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second -- yes?
09:30:35 >> Would that be March 26th?
09:30:37 May I recommend 10:30 a.m., which is the next
09:30:40 available time spot?
09:30:42 >> The 26th at 10:30.
09:30:44 I don't think it will take more than ten minutes.
09:30:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:30:47 All signify by saying aye.
09:30:50 Opposes?
09:30:50 [ MOTION CARRIED ]
09:30:51 >> Councilwoman Mulhern?
09:30:53 >>MARY MULHERN: No.
09:30:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I have two items, one is we voted to,
09:30:58 to give commendation a few weeks ago at the CRA
09:31:05 meeting to the university of South Florida for the
09:31:06 work they have done in East Tampa.

09:31:08 But we didn't specify, my understanding, is a date.
09:31:11 So I'm requesting is that we do that at our next CRA
09:31:15 meeting, which is March 12th.
09:31:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
09:31:20 All in favor say aye.
09:31:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next Moffitt is requesting a
09:31:28 commendation of representative for the working in
09:31:34 cancer, during the Moffitt cancer month.
09:31:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Lee Moffitt, the person?
09:31:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
09:31:44 The representative.
09:31:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second, all in favor say
09:31:49 aye.
09:31:50 Oppose, same.
09:31:51 [ MOTION CARRIED ]
09:31:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What's the date?
09:31:55 Pardon me?
09:31:57 What was the requested date?
09:32:02 It's in may.
09:32:16 The date is here, like it was in may.
09:32:19 You need to find out.
09:32:27 We can do these things, we have to have a date.

09:32:31 I think it's in may.
09:32:32 Find out definitely.
09:32:34 >> Mr. Chairman?
09:32:35 >> Wanted to call item 22.
09:32:37 You have a full board.
09:32:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have a full board now.
09:32:40 Item 22 was pulled for a separate vote.
09:32:42 Request for pull, we did that.
09:32:44 So now we have a pulled vote.
09:32:46 This request came from councilman Dingfelder.
09:32:49 That's item 22.
09:32:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is there a motion?
09:32:56 >> Motion to move item 22.
09:32:58 >>GWEN MILLER: You got to move it again.
09:33:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move that we approve item 22.
09:33:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Second.
09:33:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:33:09 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:33:11 Opposes?
09:33:14 >> No.
09:33:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion carried with Dingfelder voting
09:33:17 no.

09:33:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We will take up our 9:30 items at this
09:33:21 time.
09:33:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 26, substitute ordinance.
09:33:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: By the way, thank you for pulling
09:33:47 that and waiting for me, I appreciate it.
09:33:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do we need to swear all the witnesses
09:33:53 in?
09:33:54 >> Yes, to items 56 through 57.
09:33:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Those going to address council, please
09:34:00 stand and be sworn, it is time.
09:34:03 [Oath administered by Clerk]
09:34:12 >> I need to request that substitute ordinance be
09:34:16 substituted with ordinance that I have in front of me.
09:34:19 This is vacating, that was approved on first reading.
09:34:24 Where wastewater objected because they, going to have
09:34:27 trouble getting into the alley to do repairs and
09:34:30 things.
09:34:32 So then, the petitioner and wastewater has discussed
09:34:35 that issue.
09:34:35 And the petitioner has agreed to grant the city a 3-C
09:34:41 easement into his own private property for purposes of
09:34:44 wastewater, being able to get in there and wastewater

09:34:47 is okay with that.
09:34:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda?
09:34:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I supported this the first time, I
09:34:53 did not have all the Metcalf's input.
09:34:59 He did -- was the head of that department yesterday
09:35:03 for about 30 minutes.
09:35:04 We went over in detail of the whole thing.
09:35:07 I think that both parties agree, I see Mr. Diken in
09:35:13 the office.
09:35:13 If both parties agrees I'll support it.
09:35:16 But I was going to change my vote and vote no.
09:35:18 Now I see they have come to that agreement because of
09:35:21 those individuals and the city could work out where
09:35:25 they just gated and solve the problems that they have
09:35:28 with individuals going in and out without putting any
09:35:32 pressures on the city and not being able to go in and
09:35:35 do the work on that sewer.
09:35:36 That sewer does not run all the way through.
09:35:39 It stops at the auto store.
09:35:41 And therefore, to me would have been great for the
09:35:44 city to have the additional three feet.
09:35:47 >> I just want to remind council that if a fence were

09:35:51 to be installed, the petition would have to get
09:35:54 consent--
09:35:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Have a locked key or something to
09:35:58 get in.
09:35:59 So I have no problem with that.
09:36:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You want to hear from --
09:36:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, certainly.
09:36:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Miranda will request to hear from
09:36:06 staff and I guess the petition, they agree on this
09:36:08 particular resolution
09:36:10 Of the problem?
09:36:13 Who's representing wastewater?
09:36:15 Anyone here?
09:36:22 >> I was not sworn in.
09:36:23 I thought the attorneys were going to deal with this.
09:36:26 But I'll be glad.
09:36:29 [Oath administered by Clerk]
09:36:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You just signed with the military
09:36:36 for four years.
09:36:37 [ Laughter ]
09:36:38 >> Yes, we were able to get with the petitioner and
09:36:41 work out an agreement.

09:36:43 And we are in agreement with this additional three
09:36:45 foot easement.
09:36:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:36:48 Petitioner?
09:36:49 Thank you, sir.
09:36:49 >> Good morning.
09:36:55 Terrence Bradford.
09:36:58 Yeah, we met this morning and we are in agreement.
09:37:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, thank you very much.
09:37:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
09:37:08 council on item 56?
09:37:10 Anyone else from the public?
09:37:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:37:13 >> Second.
09:37:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:37:19 councilwomen Mulhern, will you read --
09:37:19 >>GWEN MILLER: I have that. thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:37:21 an ordinance vacating, closing, discontinuing and
09:37:25 abandoning a certain right-of-way of alleyway lying
09:37:29 south of Ida Street, north of Martin Luther King, Jr.
09:37:32 Boulevard, west of Nebraska avenue and east of
09:37:36 Taliaferro avenue, Palmaria subdivision, a subdivision

09:37:42 in the city of Tampa, Hillsborough County, Florida,
09:37:44 same being fully described in Section 2, reserving
09:37:44 certain easements and conditions, Providing for an
09:37:46 effective date.
09:37:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second by Councilman Miranda.
09:37:49 Record your vote.
09:38:00 >> Motion carried with Scott abstaining.
09:38:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, I must have hit the wrong button.
09:38:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's why you're chairman.
09:38:13 [ Laughter ]
09:38:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm voting yes for that.
09:38:16 She can correct that in the record.
09:38:20 Let the record reflect that was a mistake on the
09:38:22 chairman's part.
09:38:24 It's been corrected by the clerk to vote yes.
09:38:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 57.
09:38:33 >> Good morning, council.
09:38:34 Samantha Fenger, land development coordination.
09:38:37 Site plans for items number 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 64 and
09:38:43 66 have been certified by the zoning administrator and
09:38:46 provided to the city clerk's office.
09:38:48 We have certified copies here if you have any

09:38:50 questions. additionally I would like to provide
09:38:52 correspondence that has been received for item V08-64
09:38:57 to be filed and received.
09:38:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Miranda, if we could move, just to
09:39:02 be on the safe side, go ahead and move all the 9:30
09:39:03 items.
09:39:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move all 9:30 items, items 57
09:39:09 through 67.
09:39:13 >> Excuse me, council.
09:39:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:39:17 All in favor, signify by saying aye.
09:39:19 Go ahead.
09:39:20 >> I also have some items to be received and filed for
09:39:24 V0838.
09:39:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:39:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I didn't move the others because
09:39:32 these are quasi.
09:39:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 57.
09:39:37 Anyone wish to address the council?
09:39:38 Anyone wish to address the council on item 57?
09:39:41 Motion to close.
09:39:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All signify by saying aye.

09:39:46 Mr. Miranda, item 57.
09:39:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:39:50 Moving ordinance for second reading upon adoption,
09:39:53 ordinance providing special use permit S-2 approving a
09:39:57 day care center in RS-60 residential single-family
09:40:01 zoning district in general vicinity of 10701 North
09:40:04 15th Street in the city of Tampa, Florida approving
09:40:11 waivers as set forth, Providing for an effective date.
09:40:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:40:16 Seconded by councilmember Dingfelder.
09:40:19 Record your vote.
09:40:23 >> Motion carried unanimously.
09:40:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 58.
09:40:35 >> Good morning, council.
09:40:40 2302 seventh avenue east in Ybor City, trying to
09:40:45 obtain permit to sell alcohol beverage at the
09:40:48 restaurant.
09:40:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else here wish to address
09:40:54 council on item 58?
09:40:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:40:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:40:59 Second by councilwoman Mulhern.

09:41:01 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:41:04 Councilman Dingfelder, item 58.
09:41:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move following for second reading.
09:41:09 Ordinance approving a special use permit for alcoholic
09:41:12 beverage sales, small venue making lawful the sale of
09:41:16 beverage containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight,
09:41:23 2(COP-R) for consumption on the premises only in
09:41:26 connection with the restaurant business establishment
09:41:29 on that certain lot, plot or tract of land 2302 East
09:41:32 7th Avenue, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly
09:41:34 described in section two hereof, approving waivers as
09:41:37 set forth herein, Providing for an effective date.
09:41:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:41:44 Seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:41:47 Record your vote please.
09:41:54 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:41:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 59.
09:41:58 Item 59, anyone here wish to address council on item
09:42:02 59?
09:42:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:42:13 >> I come forward to defend myself.
09:42:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You are the petitioner?

09:42:21 >> Yes, sir.
09:42:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 59, motion closed.
09:42:25 Second?
09:42:26 Been moved and second, all in favor signify by saying
09:42:29 aye.
09:42:30 Councilwoman Miller, item 59.
09:42:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, ordinance --
09:42:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Point of order.
09:42:37 To the legal department, on 59, we had reduced that to
09:42:42 eight bids.
09:42:44 >> Yes, you had.
09:42:45 I just realized that.
09:42:47 The new ordinance hasn't been transmitted.
09:42:50 I will get that transmitted down to you in about five
09:42:52 minutes.
09:42:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We will hold that until we get the new
09:42:56 ordinance corrected.
09:42:57 Item 59, we will come back to that.
09:43:00 Item 60.
09:43:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:43:09 >> Second.
09:43:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.

09:43:12 Councilwoman Miller?
09:43:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:43:17 I move to adopt ordinance from the second reading,
09:43:20 ordinance approving a special use permit S-2 for
09:43:22 alcoholic beverage sales, small venue and making
09:43:25 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol
09:43:28 regardless of alcoholic content, beer wine and liquor,
09:43:31 4(COP-R) for consumption on premises only in
09:43:34 connection with the restaurant business establishment
09:43:37 at or from that certain lot, plot or tract of land
09:43:40 located at 5119 north Nebraska avenue, Tampa, Florida
09:43:44 as more particularly described in section 2 hereof,
09:43:47 approving waivers as set forth herein, waiving certain
09:43:50 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
09:43:53 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
09:43:55 conflict, providing for an effective date.
09:43:58 >> Second. been moved and second.
09:44:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second by councilman Miranda.
09:44:04 Record your vote.
09:44:14 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:44:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 61.
09:44:16 Anyone wish to address council on item 61?

09:44:21 Motion to close.
09:44:22 >> So moved.
09:44:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:44:24 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:44:27 Opposes?
09:44:28 Councilwoman Saul-Sena, item 61.
09:44:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:44:32 I'd like to move the following ORDINANCE for second
09:44:35 reading and adoption.
09:44:37 Ordinance approving a special use permit for alcoholic
09:44:39 beverage sales, small venue, and making lawful sale of
09:44:43 beverages containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight
09:44:46 and not more than 14% by weight and wines regardless
09:44:49 of alcoholic content, beer and wine, 2(COP-R) for
09:44:53 consumption on the premises only in connection with
09:44:54 the restaurant business establishment on that certain
09:44:57 lot, plot or tract of land located at 514 North
09:45:00 Franklin Street, suite 101, Tampa, Florida, as more
09:45:03 particularly described in section 2 hereof, approving
09:45:07 waivers as set forth herein, waiving certain
09:45:09 restrictions as to distance based on certain findings,
09:45:13 imposing certain conditions, providing for repeal of

09:45:16 all ordinances in conflict.
09:45:18 Providing for an effective date.
09:45:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second?
09:45:20 Moved and second.
09:45:22 Second by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:45:24 Record your vote.
09:45:34 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:45:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 62, anyone wish to address
09:45:42 council on item 62?
09:45:45 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question on that.
09:45:46 Mr. Dingfelder, I think this is your district.
09:45:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, ma'am.
09:45:51 >>MARY MULHERN: I have been trying to picture where
09:45:52 this is and I'm --
09:45:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think this was that little cigar
09:45:58 shop that woman came in front of us.
09:46:00 We HAD the translation issues.
09:46:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, thank you.
09:46:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion closed.
09:46:06 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
09:46:07 >> Second.
09:46:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.

09:46:10 Councilman Joseph Caetano.
09:46:14 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I'm not going to support that.
09:46:15 Should someone else read it?
09:46:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern?
09:46:23 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:46:24 I move an ordinance being presented for second reading
09:46:27 and adoption, an ordinance approving special use
09:46:30 permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, small venue
09:46:33 and making lawful sale of beverages containing alcohol
09:46:36 of more than one percent by weight and not more than
09:46:39 14% of weight and wines regardless of alcoholic
09:46:41 content, beer and wine 2 C.O.P. for consumption on
09:46:48 premises or sealed in containers for consumption off
09:46:52 premises, 3219 west Bay to Bay Boulevard, approving
09:46:56 waivers as set forth herein, waiving certain
09:46:58 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
09:47:00 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
09:47:03 conflict, Providing for an effective date.
09:47:06 >> Second.
09:47:11 >> When this was presented, I did not realize, I don't
09:47:14 know whether this is a waiver or what.
09:47:16 But we have two day care facilities.

09:47:18 One within 249 feet and one 773 feet.
09:47:23 In a close proximity to this establishment.
09:47:27 That's why I cannot support it.
09:47:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:47:35 As a motion, record your vote please.
09:47:52 >> You want a revote?
09:47:54 >> Let's do that.
09:47:56 >> The left hand, chairman.
09:47:57 [ Laughter ]
09:48:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Now record your vote.
09:48:15 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano and Scott
09:48:21 voting NO and Miranda being absent.
09:48:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 63, anyone wish to address
09:48:27 council on item 63?
09:48:28 >> Move to close.
09:48:30 >> Second.
09:48:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:48:31 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:48:33 Councilman Dingfelder?
09:48:41 >> Is that getting up to speed?
09:48:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We closed it.
09:48:45 >> Item 63.

09:48:46 Move following for second readings, ordinance making
09:48:53 lawful sale of beverages containing alcohol of more
09:48:55 than 1% by weight and not more than 14% by weight AND
09:48:59 wines regardless of alcoholic content, beer and wine,
09:49:04 2(APS), in sealed containers, tract of land located at
09:49:09 4224 and 4302 west Gandy Boulevard, as more
09:49:14 particularly described in section two, waiving certain
09:49:17 restrictions as to distance based UPON CERTAIN
09:49:19 FINDINGS, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
09:49:21 conflict and Providing for an effective date.
09:49:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:49:27 Second by Ms. Saul-Sena.
09:49:29 Record your votes please.
09:49:38 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent
09:49:40 at vote.
09:49:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 64, anyone wish to address
09:49:43 council on item 64?
09:49:45 Item 64, anyone wish to address council?
09:49:52 >> Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Al Steenson, 4100
09:49:57 Wesley avenue, Tampa.
09:49:59 Here again representing the Gandy civic association.
09:50:01 I can tell you this from, between now -- now and last

09:50:06 reading, first reading, our position has not changed
09:50:09 on this particular rezoning.
09:50:11 We are in total support of it.
09:50:13 And I'd like to -- you probably already have a copy of
09:50:16 this, but we have a copy of a letter from under over
09:50:20 Tom pinto's signature where the people in port Tampa
09:50:23 have supported us in this request.
09:50:26 And I will enter that into the record.
09:50:29 And I have 25 e-mails, all indicating support for this
09:50:36 rezoning.
09:50:36 One in particular, I would like to read just a tiny
09:50:40 bit of it into the record.
09:50:41 "Al, thanks for the article"--
09:50:43 This is in response to a blast e-mail I put out.
09:50:47 "Was wondering what your position on the new pizza
09:50:52 plant for Bayshore across from Camden.
09:50:56 My family lives across from this.
09:50:59 We are in support of such development.
09:51:00 This would be a huge plus to our neighborhood.
09:51:02 We have been hoping this particular property would be
09:51:04 improved for sometime.
09:51:06 I have family and friends living in Camden south and

09:51:10 port Tampa city and we are pleased to see this project
09:51:12 goes forward.
09:51:13 It will be a big boost to the particular area and I
09:51:16 hope you are in support of it, which I am.
09:51:19 Thanks for listening."
09:51:21 Bill Dougherty, former deputy director of code
09:51:25 enforcement.
09:51:26 It was brought up at first reading, about an
09:51:31 87-year-old woman, Mrs. Comstack -- Comstock, I have
09:51:35 not had a chance to visit with her but I did have a 35
09:51:39 minute phone conversation with her.
09:51:41 I didn't change your mind.
09:51:42 That was not the reason for the call.
09:51:43 I wasn't going to change your mind.
09:51:45 When she asked me, she said sounds like you're in
09:51:48 support.
09:51:49 I said yes I am, and I told her why.
09:51:51 She didn't agree with me, but she understood me.
09:51:53 But what I did assure her was, she has my home phone
09:51:58 number and my cell number and any time she has an a
09:52:01 issue that she won't be able to solve with Mr. Lewis,
09:52:04 I have told her call me at any time, day or night.

09:52:08 And I will do what I can to help her with her issues.
09:52:13 Her biggest, one of the biggest things that came out
09:52:16 of our conversation was not the pizza place.
09:52:18 It was code enforcement.
09:52:20 And I said well, maybe you and I can sit on your porch
09:52:25 one day and talk about it.
09:52:26 So I'm going to set up a time and talk to her.
09:52:29 So, with that I'd like to put these e-mails into the
09:52:32 record.
09:52:32 And respectfully request that you move this forward on
09:52:36 second reading.
09:52:37 Thank you.
09:52:43 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Thank you, counselor.
09:52:44 Steve Michelini, respectfully request your approval.
09:52:47 We followed up on the discussions from last time.
09:52:50 And we believe we have uniform and wide support for
09:52:53 this project.
09:52:54 Thank you very much.
09:52:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder?
09:52:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
09:52:58 Before we close, I just wanted to read -- actually two
09:53:03 or three excerpts from letters council has received

09:53:09 and are part of the record.
09:53:11 For those of you who weren't here, when we had first
09:53:14 reading on this, Ms. Comstock wrote to us at the first
09:53:19 reading and she lives directly across the street from
09:53:23 this project.
09:53:25 Let me clarify.
09:53:28 I am totally in support of a pizza restaurant on
09:53:31 Westshore.
09:53:32 It's the appropriate place.
09:53:34 The thing I'm opposed to is what staff is opposed to.
09:53:38 Staff wrote against this.
09:53:39 Staff opposed this because they're buying one lot
09:53:41 behind the pizza restaurant, and staff said that would
09:53:45 be intrusive into the residential neighborhood.
09:53:47 I went and walked this neighborhood the other day to
09:53:51 get a better feel for it, because it had been a little
09:53:54 while since I have been over there.
09:53:56 And I apologize.
09:53:58 It's true, once you get, you know, the Westshore phase
09:54:01 is commercial.
09:54:02 And the minute you get off of Westshore, it goes into
09:54:05 single-family residential.

09:54:07 There's no transition whatsoever.
09:54:08 So this commercial parking lot, they're going to tear
09:54:11 down a single-family house, and they're going to put
09:54:14 up a parking lot.
09:54:15 And Ms. Comstock lives directly across the street at
09:54:20 4728 bay.
09:54:23 And she opposed it.
09:54:25 She said I'm writing to express, I oppose this
09:54:30 restaurant parking facility.
09:54:31 She said I don't like strange cars parked in front of
09:54:34 my house.
09:54:34 It frightens me.
09:54:36 I'd hate to have to call the police.
09:54:38 It takes ten minutes for them to answer.
09:54:40 We have more pizza places.
09:54:43 I have more questions than answers and I oppose this
09:54:46 restaurant and I hope City Council will vote no.
09:54:50 We got a new e-mail in between first and second
09:54:52 reading from Mr. Everett Morrison, he lives four
09:54:56 houses down from Ms. Comstock.
09:55:00 And I'm going to read this into the record.
09:55:02 Fairly short.

09:55:02 Said I moved to this neighborhood back in 1998 and
09:55:05 enjoy the neighborly atmosphere that we have.
09:55:07 I do not wish to see it ruined by adding a parking lot
09:55:10 at the end of my block.
09:55:12 I feel it won't be long before they ask for a liquor
09:55:14 license to boot.
09:55:15 This is a family area, with children and that type of
09:55:19 establishment is not welcome.
09:55:20 I live at the opposite end of the block, but the same
09:55:23 block as the proposed parking lot.
09:55:25 And I will not appreciate the type of personnel that
09:55:27 would frequent such an establishment.
09:55:30 Watching and keeping abreast of the situation.
09:55:32 Then he goes into a threat how he's not going to vote
09:55:35 for us.
09:55:36 Unfortunately, I have to work on March 5th or
09:55:39 otherwise, so I cannot be there.
09:55:42 I'd be voicing my displeasure with this project.
09:55:45 They already have a sign posted advertising a pizza,
09:55:48 beer bar.
09:55:48 So how long before you authorize liquor?
09:55:52 I know you're just looking for more tax money and

09:55:55 trying to mess with little people in our quiet
09:55:57 neighborhood.
09:55:57 The street is quiet with very little traffic.
09:56:01 Now we have to deal with possible DUI and other
09:56:05 degenerates in our community.
09:56:07 You need to vote no for this zoning change.
09:56:12 Thanks for reading my rant.
09:56:14 Then finally, mike Hersey, who was, used to be
09:56:18 president of Al's neighborhood association, sun bay
09:56:22 south.
09:56:22 He wrote a four-page letter and some of his comments
09:56:26 are sort of in favor of this project.
09:56:28 But some of them are neutral.
09:56:30 This one paragraph jumped out at me.
09:56:32 It said finally I want to express my concerns as it
09:56:34 relates to the safety.
09:56:36 The aforementioned establishment's parking lot is
09:56:39 directly on the side of the establishment.
09:56:41 Therefore the parking lot is visible from Westshore.
09:56:44 The petition in front of you is proposing parking in
09:56:46 the rear, with a six foot masonry wall.
09:56:49 I don't know what the hours of operation will be for

09:56:50 this establishment.
09:56:51 My concern resides in the nonoperational hours.
09:56:54 I didn't see any comments from Tampa police on staff
09:56:57 report, but I wanted to note an officer patrol in this
09:56:59 area will not be able to see the parking area as he
09:57:02 goes down Westshore.
09:57:03 This is being brought up for the protection of the
09:57:05 petitioner's property as well as the immediate
09:57:07 residential neighborhood.
09:57:08 Our neighborhoods do not need to provide an area in
09:57:10 which criminal active can take place.
09:57:13 I don't know if petitioner is providing a gate to
09:57:15 secure the establishment.
09:57:17 Securing the parking facility shouldn't be a major
09:57:20 undertaking and something that needs to be addressed.
09:57:22 Bottom line is, yes, there's nobody here because we
09:57:26 hold second reading in the afternoon.
09:57:30 This is not a very involved neighborhood.
09:57:33 I can tell you from six years of representing these
09:57:36 particular streets, I don't hear from them very much.
09:57:39 They're not just real plugged in and frankly there's
09:57:42 some rentals along that street as I walked it.

09:57:45 You can tell.
09:57:45 Linda used to represent this neighborhood and she can
09:57:47 tell you more about it as well.
09:57:48 But, you know, staff recommended denial.
09:57:53 Staff said that that parking lot intrudes into the
09:57:56 neighborhood.
09:57:56 I think that we should -- I think we should ask them
09:57:59 to redesign the project.
09:58:01 What I suggested, if they need more parking, raise
09:58:03 that project up and park underneath on the Westshore
09:58:06 part of it.
09:58:08 But they don't need to start intruding in the
09:58:10 neighborhood because it sets a bad precedent for all
09:58:12 those neighborhoods along there.
09:58:14 And I can't support it.
09:58:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I agree with comments made by
09:58:22 Mr. Dingfelder.
09:58:24 If you look at the map of zoning along Westshore, it
09:58:26 is a very crisp line, where the parcels fronting
09:58:31 Westshore are commercials and all properties to the
09:58:34 west of that are residential.
09:58:35 This represents the first pushing into the residential

09:58:39 area of a commercial property.
09:58:41 And I feel very badly for people who live up the
09:58:44 street, which I think is why staff recommended denial.
09:58:46 So I encourage a few more colleagues to vote against
09:58:49 this.
09:58:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thanks, chairman.
09:58:52 I'm not going to refer to any colleague.
09:58:55 I never asked anybody to vote for or against anything
09:58:57 as long as I have been here.
09:58:59 That's up to each individual member's, how they feel
09:59:03 they ought to vote.
09:59:04 We get ourselves in trouble just by what I heard.
09:59:07 When a petitioner, not only this petitioner, any
09:59:11 petitioner comes here, we are not the designer of the
09:59:14 land.
09:59:15 We are not the designer of the building.
09:59:17 That's what got us in trouble on number 22, because
09:59:22 $158,000 under a settlement.
09:59:24 We cannot continue and again, I am going to look at
09:59:28 our attorneys and ask for their continuous vigilance
09:59:31 over us to keep us within the guidelines of what we
09:59:34 are supposed to do.

09:59:35 If a petitioner comes here and we try to redesign
09:59:39 their building, now let me ask you this.
09:59:43 If you go and start digging on Westshore, how far are
09:59:46 you going to dig before you hit water?
09:59:49 Not too far.
09:59:50 I'm not talking -- I'm not mentioning names.
09:59:54 I'm not saying anything.
09:59:55 I'm just talking in general.
09:59:57 So, what I'm saying is, this is an area that has had
10:00:02 no restaurants.
10:00:04 A lot of buildings going up.
10:00:08 Some that are working, some that are not working,
10:00:11 because of the economic situation of not only the
10:00:14 city, but of this whole country.
10:00:17 This is an individual who's willing to roll the dice.
10:00:21 Let me talk to you about a parking lot that's not on
10:00:23 so-called Main Street.
10:00:25 All residential parking.
10:00:31 I was one of the owners.
10:00:33 We never had a problem.
10:00:34 Not one problem.
10:00:35 I can name you other facilities in the city that go

10:00:40 into the residential parking, including some
10:00:44 properties that the city owns.
10:00:45 So what I'm saying is, hospitals have done this.
10:00:52 Have taken and gone into the neighborhood and built a
10:00:56 parking lot, and again, not to embarrass the
10:00:59 hospitals.
10:01:00 I have done that enough lately.
10:01:02 Coexist.
10:01:07 So what I'm saying is, these people, all of the
10:01:12 neighborhoods, need something to have in their
10:01:16 neighborhood so they can go out and have a pizza or
10:01:20 sandwich or whatever.
10:01:21 Let me talk to you about alcohol zonings.
10:01:24 Not everyone who goes into a restaurant is an
10:01:28 alcoholic.
10:01:28 Not everyone that goes to a restaurant is a crook.
10:01:37 Far and far between, you know, when you look at the
10:01:44 population, and yes, we do have over 100,000
10:01:49 Floridians in jail.
10:01:50 That doesn't mean all of them come from the
10:01:52 restaurant.
10:01:52 We have an obligation to vote the way we see things.

10:01:59 And you will never ask, see me ask a councilmember for
10:02:03 their support.
10:02:03 It's either up to them, yea or nay.
10:02:08 And I'll never question their vote.
10:02:10 That was the way I was brought up.
10:02:12 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:02:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
10:02:17 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: We have a small businessman
10:02:18 that's going to invest a lot of money.
10:02:20 I don't know if I can convince Mr. Miranda to vote for
10:02:24 this.
10:02:24 But the thing is, the small businessman is hurting.
10:02:28 And as Mr. Dingfelder said in his letter there, that
10:02:32 this place is going to bring unscrupulous people or
10:02:35 words to that effect.
10:02:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Wasn't my letter.
10:02:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: But whoever wrote this letter.
10:02:43 I don't know who went out there campaigning looking
10:02:45 for these letters.
10:02:46 But this guy is going to put a lot of money on the
10:02:49 line.
10:02:49 I don't know that area too well, but the fact is, we

10:02:52 need something there.
10:02:53 This is from what I hear.
10:02:54 There's nothing in the area.
10:02:56 And to support the small businessman, I'll support
10:02:59 this motion.
10:03:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder?
10:03:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just as a quick rebuttal.
10:03:06 Charlie, I agree with you a hundred percent, you can't
10:03:08 start digging over there.
10:03:09 The water table is too high. I was saying, drive right
10:03:11 in for the parking and put the restaurant above it.
10:03:14 We talked about that at first reading.
10:03:16 I just wanted to clarify that.
10:03:17 The other thing I got to say is, with all due respect
10:03:21 to my good friend Tom Vento in port Tampa, which I was
10:03:26 with yesterday.
10:03:27 And we are friends.
10:03:28 Port Tampa is a mile down the road.
10:03:30 Al Steenson has perfect legal standing to stand in
10:03:35 here in front of us, because this is his neighborhood
10:03:37 and he's president of the neighborhood association.
10:03:39 Port Tampa is a mile down the road.

10:03:41 And for them to support it, you know, yeah, they want
10:03:44 more pizza restaurants.
10:03:46 But if this was intruding into their neighborhood,
10:03:48 they would be the first ones to scream and yell.
10:03:50 So, anyway, just wanted to clarify those points.
10:03:57 just wanted to say thank you all for talking so much,
10:03:59 because I was absent at the first reading and I was
10:04:02 able to read the backup.
10:04:04 And I'm going to vote against this because the
10:04:08 Planning Commission actually sounded inconsistent.
10:04:13 And our transportation department.
10:04:15 So I think, and as Ms. Saul-Sena pointed out, IT'S
10:04:19 Completely, the parking lot would be in a residential
10:04:25 neighborhood, completely residential.
10:04:27 There's nothing anywhere on this map that I have that
10:04:33 shows any commercial property that's not on Westshore.
10:04:39 So...
10:04:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: GIVE THE petitioner opportunity to
10:04:45 come and address council at this point.
10:04:47 There has been so much debate and discussion, before
10:04:49 we close the public hearings.

10:04:51 >> Just wanted to briefly address some of your
10:04:53 comments.
10:04:54 When you start applying transportation standards for
10:04:56 parking and things to an existing building --
10:04:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name for the record.
10:05:02 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Steve Michelini.
10:05:04 Mr. Dingfelder talked about raising THE building.
10:05:07 This is an existing building they're going to add a
10:05:10 second floor on to.
10:05:10 So you can't JUST knock the first level out and put
10:05:13 the parking underneath.
10:05:14 It is not a practical solution.
10:05:15 We looked at other solutions, but in order to provide
10:05:18 the necessary parking, you know, do we really want to
10:05:22 tear down a house and move backwards?
10:05:24 No, of course not.
10:05:25 But you don't have choices.
10:05:26 These interfaced areas between residential and
10:05:29 commercial, this is a constant issue.
10:05:31 This is not a new issue.
10:05:33 It is -- it's being dealt with in a sensitive manner
10:05:36 and the most sensitive manner it can be.

10:05:39 It's going to be HEAVILY landscaped, a masonry wall.
10:05:42 But when you try to go in and do retrofit and
10:05:45 renovation and rehab some of the buildings, upgrade
10:05:49 them and write them up to current standards, you're
10:05:51 faced with that difficult question about, how do you
10:05:54 do this?
10:05:55 Do you leave a masonry building there that's been
10:05:59 there since the '40S OR '50S and leave it in a poor
10:06:03 condition or do you renovate it, knowing you're going
10:06:06 to have to buy additional property to meet the codes?
10:06:09 Many of your codes now state, including the Kennedy
10:06:13 overlay district, you must put parking in the back,
10:06:17 away from the commercial district and up against the
10:06:19 residential property.
10:06:20 Those are your codes.
10:06:23 The same thing applies in the SoHo district.
10:06:26 Exactly same thing applies in the west Tampa overlay
10:06:29 district.
10:06:30 In Seminole Heights, you're trying to get away in many
10:06:33 parts of the city from putting the parking on the
10:06:37 frontage of the street.
10:06:39 This isn't a brand new concept.

10:06:41 BUT THEN how do you deal with the INTERFACE?
10:06:43 You put up the masonry wall.
10:06:45 You heavily landscape it and direct traffic away from
10:06:48 the residential area.
10:06:48 That's exactly what this plan does.
10:06:50 It's consistent with so many of your other plans.
10:06:53 And the new guidelines that you're trying to adopt,
10:06:56 that by forcing the parking back in the front, you're
10:07:00 taking a step backwards and away from other codes and
10:07:03 ordinances that you have adopted.
10:07:04 So, you know, do we like it?
10:07:07 It's the best solution we can come up with and also
10:07:10 meet all the standards the city has.
10:07:12 Directly across the street, you have a huge apartment
10:07:15 complex.
10:07:16 That goes on and on and on, back into -- and I know
10:07:20 apartment complex is multifamily.
10:07:22 But for practical consideration, that's also labeled
10:07:26 as a commercial project.
10:07:27 And it's huge.
10:07:29 It's right across the street.
10:07:30 Do you have neighborhoods serving commercial areas in

10:07:33 THE establishments in the area?
10:07:35 No.
10:07:36 That's why Al Steenson is here.
10:07:38 And when you come to neighborhood associations, can
10:07:41 you pick and choose which ones?
10:07:42 We didn't go to them -- if they were here opposing US,
10:07:47 WE'D be trying to work something out.
10:07:49 They're here supporting us.
10:07:51 That's another indication THAT they have looked at it,
10:07:53 they live there and they're asking for your support,
10:07:55 as well as we are.
10:07:56 So we respectfully request your support.
10:07:58 It is going to be a difficult project to maintain.
10:08:00 And there's no guarantees.
10:08:02 When this gentleman puts in millions of dollars to
10:08:06 renovate and build this place back up, he may fail.
10:08:09 But, he needs to be given a chance to at least to get
10:08:14 this project off the ground and start moving forward.
10:08:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder?
10:08:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Michelini, you and your client
10:08:25 are aware of the rule about the council's rule and
10:08:30 state law about not speaking with members of clients

10:08:32 about -- excuse me, not speaking with members of
10:08:35 council about rezoning.
10:08:37 >> Absolutely.
10:08:38 >> AND you abide by that?
10:08:40 >> Yes, sir.
10:08:40 >> You abided by that on this one?
10:08:42 >> YES, SIR.
10:08:43 >> And your client as well?
10:08:44 >> Can't speak for him.
10:08:45 I haven't.
10:08:46 I certainly haven't.
10:08:49 >> Mr. SEEMEY?
10:08:51 >> Absolutely.
10:08:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Nobody on your team has spoken to
10:08:54 any members of council?
10:08:55 >> No, we haven't spoken with any members of council.
10:08:58 I just want to SAY ONE OTHER -- excuse me, is that
10:09:02 Mr. Lewis, who is the owner, he is here presently.
10:09:04 And I want to let you know that he lives seven minutes
10:09:07 away from the site.
10:09:08 His wife and I and their two-year-old son knocked on
10:09:12 all the doors down Ohio. Mr. Michelini has submitted

10:09:16 the same adjacent property owners who supported us in
10:09:20 first reading, still support us today in this reading.
10:09:22 I want to say also that it's been, you know, since
10:09:26 inception of the filing, which is last March, it's
10:09:29 been a year for Mr. Lewis to carry the cost and he has
10:09:32 done so, to try and meet all the neighbors'
10:09:35 expectations and THE city staff expectations.
10:09:39 I want to say thank you.
10:09:41 >> If I COULD have your name for the record.
10:09:44 >> Todd Seemey.
10:09:48 >> CHARLIE MIRANDA: since it's been brought up in a
10:09:51 general form of conversation, I don't know about the
10:09:53 rest of the members OF council, but I will testify
10:09:55 that I have never spoken to any one of these three
10:09:58 gentlemen on anything regarding this zoning, or at any
10:10:01 time.
10:10:02 The first thing I told my aide when I got elected is
10:10:05 this, I don't care what it is.
10:10:07 Whether it's alcohol, or zoning issue, I do not speak
10:10:11 to them.
10:10:12 I don't care if they get mad, upset.
10:10:17 They can blow their heads off, not mine.

10:10:20 If they want to give me a polygraph test, I'll be the
10:10:23 first one in line.
10:10:24 I don't know about the other councilmembers.
10:10:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me state for the record, for the
10:10:28 last 12 years, that's been my policy, ALL THE WAY BACK
10:10:32 TO THE COUNTY COMMISSION AND TODAY, i Do not talk with
10:10:33 persons about zoning or rezoning.
10:10:36 That's been my practice.
10:10:37 So I don't talk WITH anyone. >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
10:10:43 mr. Michelini, you were ABSOLUTELY CORRECT WHEN you
10:10:46 identified THAT the interface between a commercial
10:10:48 property and residential property is the trickiest
10:10:51 part of figuring out the design of our city.
10:10:53 But the other neighborhoods that you identified where
10:10:56 we have design rules that encourage the commercial
10:10:59 uses to be very close to the street with the parking
10:11:02 behind, those are historic neighborhoods that
10:11:05 developed in a certain pattern.
10:11:07 And you don't have that precedent along this portion
10:11:10 of Westshore.
10:11:11 Also, the commercial use you identified across the
10:11:13 street, the large apartment complex is on the other

10:11:15 side of the street. I believe we should look at
10:11:23 things theoretically and then in reality.
10:11:25 In this particular case, both the theory and the
10:11:28 reality are, everything west of Westshore, other than
10:11:31 commercial use, is fronting on Westshore are
10:11:33 residential.
10:11:34 And that's the concern here, is that this use will
10:11:38 change the character of the residential uses that are
10:11:43 up against the commercial uses on Westshore.
10:11:46 And will begin to see what we have seen in so many
10:11:49 neighborhoods, which is that nobody wants to live in a
10:11:52 house that backs up to commercial.
10:11:54 And we will see a deterioration of the homes adjacent.
10:11:57 That's the concern.
10:11:58 I don't need a comment.
10:12:00 I just wanted to share that.
10:12:03 >>GWEN MILLER: I need to put on the record also, I
10:12:04 have not talked to anyone, do not talk to anyone and
10:12:07 will not talk to anyone.
10:12:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close?
10:12:11 >> So moved.
10:12:12 >> Second.

10:12:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
10:12:18 >> I'm sorry, we are prepared to recall item 59.
10:12:23 >> We are on item 64, who wants to -- okay.
10:12:27 >>GWEN MILLER: I move to adopt following ordinance
10:12:30 upon second reading.
10:12:31 An ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity
10:12:34 of 6112 South Westshore Boulevard and 4733 West Bay
10:12:39 Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida, more
10:12:42 particularly described as section 1 from zoning
10:12:44 district classification, CN commercial neighborhood
10:12:47 and RS-60, residential single-family to PD, planned
10:12:52 development, restaurant, Providing an effective date.
10:12:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
10:12:56 Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:12:58 Record your vote please.
10:13:10 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder, Mulhern
10:13:12 and Saul-Sena voting no.
10:13:15 >> Thank you very much, council.
10:13:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go back to item 59.
10:13:18 >>JULIA COLE: I apologize, the clerk does have the
10:13:22 correct ordinance.

10:13:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena, Item 59.
10:13:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: thank you. Like to move an ordinance
10:13:34 approving a special use permit S-1 on appeal from a
10:13:36 decision of zoning administrator, approving a
10:13:39 congregate living facility in RS-50, residential
10:13:44 single-family zoning district in the City of Tampa,
10:13:46 Florida, More particularly described in Section 1
10:13:47 hereof, approving waivers as set forth herein,
10:13:52 Providing an effective date.
10:13:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
10:13:53 Second by councilman Miranda.
10:13:56 Record your vote.
10:14:07 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:14:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 65, anyone wish to address
10:14:11 council on item 65?
10:14:14 State your name, address for the record.
10:14:17 >> I haven't been sworn in.
10:14:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else hasn't been sworn in
10:14:21 that's going to address council?
10:14:24 [Oath administered by Clerk]
10:14:29 >> Fran Cosentino, president of east Ybor historic and
10:14:35 civic association.

10:14:35 I'm here on behalf of Item 65.
10:14:37 I was sick with the flu, so I wasn't able to attend the
10:14:40 first reading.
10:14:42 For the record, I did e-mail all of council, hopefully
10:14:46 everything was turned into the city clerk and put on
10:14:48 record.
10:14:49 I was told it was ex parte communication.
10:14:52 But I had to get across from my board that we were,
10:14:56 that we were not position to this rezoning.
10:14:58 To give you a little bit of background, I think you
10:15:02 all were told at first reading this area, this
10:15:04 property was not -- had no association.
10:15:09 We have been part of this, east Ybor has been a part
10:15:12 of Gary for several years.
10:15:14 What had happened there, so you know a little bit of
10:15:18 history.
10:15:18 The east Ybor boundaries we extended along with the
10:15:21 historic district to go up to 26th street.
10:15:24 When residents found out about our association, they
10:15:27 came and asked us to please extend our boundaries so
10:15:30 that we could take in Gary.
10:15:32 At the request of Shannon edge and the mayor's office,

10:15:36 there was a big area to take on, so we reluctantly
10:15:39 added them to our area.
10:15:42 There are some historic structures.
10:15:44 They are working on a plan to maybe extend the
10:15:47 historic overlay.
10:15:49 Those of you that know, Gary was a town before Tampa
10:15:52 was a city.
10:15:53 We have tried to get our boundaries extended, but it's
10:15:56 broken up with commercial industrial use in there.
10:15:59 And Dennis Fernandez I believe has said there has been
10:16:02 too many modifications to some of the houses.
10:16:05 We still think there's a fabulous inventory of
10:16:08 historic structures in Gary.
10:16:10 But it made everybody happy, because when we agreed,
10:16:12 it helped color in the city map on a big area that had
10:16:15 no representation by a civic association.
10:16:18 But we were very active.
10:16:20 When we agreed to take them over, we went and toured
10:16:24 the neighborhood.
10:16:24 We went with new members that requested us to be
10:16:27 there.
10:16:27 And it was blighted.

10:16:28 It was, as they said, all commercial, industrial.
10:16:34 But builders came in.
10:16:35 And they started to put affordable housing there.
10:16:37 I'm going to put these on the Elmo.
10:16:40 I think the association was very instrumental in
10:16:42 helping the people that submitted letters supporting
10:16:45 this rezoning.
10:16:46 Before they came before you, this is what used to be
10:16:52 on that house.
10:16:56 Free gun with purchase.
10:16:57 >> Is that true?
10:16:57 >> These are pictures.
10:16:58 When all this came about, I went through all my stuff.
10:17:02 This is what was on that house.
10:17:03 Across from the property that you are requested to
10:17:06 rezone today, that is blighted, that is full of rusty,
10:17:11 corroded pieces of metal to move homes that are
10:17:15 distressing. huge grand canopies, huge grand oaks.
10:17:20 David Riley, I don't know if you put in a report or
10:17:22 whatever.
10:17:23 But there's a canopy on each of these grand oaks that
10:17:25 must span a third of the lot.

10:17:28 We were told by code at this time, they couldn't do
10:17:30 anything to help us to get these signs down because
10:17:32 they were on private property.
10:17:34 Our answer was, what is this doing for the
10:17:38 neighborhood?
10:17:39 So we went out and I never actually verbally
10:17:41 communicated with the owner.
10:17:43 But I met with the Realtor and a lot of voice messages
10:17:46 went back and forth.
10:17:48 And all of a sudden the signs came down.
10:17:50 So I don't know whether it was code, whether it was --
10:17:53 I don't know.
10:17:54 I feel like we were instrumental in getting that to
10:17:56 happen.
10:17:56 I feel like the people supporting this rezoning bought
10:18:00 their houses because we were able to eliminate this.
10:18:03 I would submit these two.
10:18:06 >> They might need to work on their marketing skills.
10:18:08 Free gun with purchase.
10:18:10 >> People came forward in droves.
10:18:13 Saying, what is this?
10:18:14 Is it legal?

10:18:16 We went on and on.
10:18:17 Across the street you had pictures before.
10:18:19 What had happened on this particular property is, when
10:18:21 we called in code, to come sweep through our new
10:18:25 addition of Gary, they were awesome.
10:18:28 They tagged everybody.
10:18:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:18:33 Anyone else?
10:18:40 >> I had a little bit of problems when this hearing
10:18:43 first started.
10:18:43 I don't know if you watched it.
10:18:45 When it first started, I can't remember who the
10:18:48 petitioner is -- I'm sure we'll see in a second.
10:18:50 When they showed that this was just a little DOT
10:18:54 within a sea of whatever they're going to, a sea of
10:18:57 I.G., it seemed to be the anomaly.
10:19:01 I just -- I don't know.
10:19:03 I had a hard time justifying why I would treat this
10:19:06 person any different than the hundreds and hundreds of
10:19:09 lots around them.
10:19:10 So, if you could try and convince me, I might be
10:19:14 persuadable.

10:19:15 But just 30 seconds.
10:19:17 >> What we were feeling is that Gary was totally
10:19:20 neglected.
10:19:20 When we went in there as a homeowners association, the
10:19:24 trend is to change a lot of those properties to
10:19:26 residential.
10:19:26 So if this zoning gets approved, there will never be
10:19:31 houses to the south side like there are on the north
10:19:33 side.
10:19:34 So, by keeping this site the way it is zoned, and I
10:19:38 think the city somehow, I don't know.
10:19:40 Maybe that's what it was, in the future comp plan,
10:19:43 they wanted anything east of the Columbia to turn into
10:19:45 commercial industrial before we got there.
10:19:47 So, we are against -- we were unanimously not
10:19:52 supporting the rezoning of this.
10:19:53 But my one question, and I am going to take one
10:19:56 minute.
10:19:57 If he wouldn't have asked for a rezoning, this would
10:20:00 have dropped off the radar.
10:20:02 We wouldn't even know about this today.
10:20:03 Because when I called code, they said they had

10:20:07 complied.
10:20:07 If you go by driving that lot today, I don't know how
10:20:10 in the world anybody can say they complied with a code
10:20:14 violation.
10:20:14 Yet by denying, or by requesting the rezoning today,
10:20:17 it's going to put this property back only under code
10:20:21 enforcement, which says as of today it's in
10:20:23 compliance.
10:20:24 So we want this to change to residential.
10:20:26 We are trying to change the neighborhood.
10:20:28 And hopefully you will get the support to not let this
10:20:32 go forward.
10:20:32 And I thank you.
10:20:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Saul-Sena?
10:20:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like the city staff to please
10:20:38 put up an aerial photograph of the property under
10:20:41 discussion.
10:20:41 Because I remember very clearly at our first hearing,
10:20:44 this is one of those schizophrenic situations where
10:20:49 the reality is that there are all homes on the
10:20:53 northern part of this -- to the north of this.
10:20:56 And there are homes to the west of it, and if you look

10:20:59 carefully, you can see the gigantic trees around it.
10:21:03 You see, there are all homes to the north of it.
10:21:06 And there are new homes -- actually east of it.
10:21:09 But the deal is, that the zoning doesn't reflect the
10:21:14 homes, the residential uses.
10:21:16 The zoning to the north of it is all -- it doesn't
10:21:22 reflect single-family uses.
10:21:24 And to the south of it, along eighth to the west and
10:21:27 to the east, mostly are, it's vacant land and a few
10:21:32 lesser commercial uses.
10:21:33 I believe that the reason that the petitioner is
10:21:37 before us today, is because we have this weird thing
10:21:40 in our zoning, which I identified in that writeup
10:21:44 about historic districts, where if you're under code
10:21:47 citation and you ask for a rezoning, it stays the code
10:21:51 citation.
10:21:52 You don't have to pay fines.
10:21:53 You don't have to deal with your problems.
10:21:55 You're just asking for a rezoning.
10:21:56 Which is like to me, a total end run around what you
10:22:01 should be doing, which is addressing the problems on
10:22:03 your property.

10:22:04 That's what's before us.
10:22:06 And it will do a real disservice to all the homes on
10:22:10 the other side of the street and the vacant parcels
10:22:15 east and west of this if we give this heavy industrial
10:22:18 use.
10:22:18 That's appropriate for seventh avenue, but not for
10:22:21 eighth.
10:22:24 >>JULIA COLE: For the purposes of the record, let me
10:22:26 say there was some testimony that this property has
10:22:28 been complied.
10:22:30 It was at one point mistakenly complied.
10:22:34 That has been undone and it is now currently under
10:22:36 code enforcement citation.
10:22:39 That is a process moving forward on a separate track
10:22:43 legally.
10:22:43 And I want to caution everybody we should be careful
10:22:45 and cognizant of not making a decision on this
10:22:48 rezoning on the basis of the fact there may be a code
10:22:51 enforcement violation and the fact there's another
10:22:53 process moving forward.
10:22:54 But because that should come up in the record, I
10:22:57 wanted to indicate that in fact at one point it was

10:23:00 complied.
10:23:00 That has now been dealt with.
10:23:02 And it is now under current code enforcement Citation.
10:23:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I feel the same way as Mr. Dingfelder.
10:23:16 But now I'm looking at the map, the zoning map.
10:23:21 And it looks like it is RM-16 north of 8th avenue.
10:23:29 So I don't know if this is current.
10:23:33 So I sort of understood this differently at the first
10:23:39 reading, because it actually looks like it's RM-16 --
10:23:44 oh, no.
10:23:45 Okay.
10:23:48 So north -- just north of 8th avenue is RM-16?
10:23:53 Is that correct?
10:23:54 My map isn't in color.
10:23:57 So now I see.
10:23:59 >> Samantha FENGER, land development coordination.
10:24:03 Just north of the property is RM-16.
10:24:08 Where you're referring to.
10:24:14 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
10:24:14 So the properties on the south side are all...
10:24:19 >> This is all IG.
10:24:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's hear from the petitioner, then

10:24:30 we can move to close.
10:24:31 Unless you have additional questions.
10:24:36 >> Thank you, council.
10:24:40 Michael Horner, 14052 Dale Mabry, representing the
10:24:44 owner and applicant.
10:24:46 I have been sworn.
10:24:47 First, yes, there is residential zoning to the north.
10:24:49 But it is the only portion of this entire strip that
10:24:53 is zoned residential.
10:24:54 In fact, it is even nonconforming with residential.
10:24:58 It is multifamily 18.
10:24:59 So we have I.G. all the way through and all light
10:25:05 industrial zoning north and south, east and west, with
10:25:10 the only section zoned residential, multifamily, just
10:25:13 across the street.
10:25:15 >> Just for the record, mike, I think you said 18.
10:25:17 It looks like 16.
10:25:18 >> I apologize.
10:25:20 Not wearing my glasses.
10:25:21 Here's the interstate connector.
10:25:23 This is where the interstate connects between I-4 and
10:25:27 seventh is coming right through just to the west.

10:25:30 I had many discussions with the neighborhoods.
10:25:33 And we showed you every one who's in favor of it.
10:25:37 I don't know why that sign was there.
10:25:38 I can't imagine a worst marketing tool.
10:25:42 I was shocked when I saw that.
10:25:44 Everyone in the neighborhood is in favor of this.
10:25:47 They pointed out at first reading, council, these are
10:25:50 the only three lots zoned C.I.
10:25:54 Everything else is I.G.
10:25:56 In fact, the comp plan says it's light industrial.
10:25:58 We can't even do single-family all the west, south,
10:26:04 and to the east as well, is HC-24.
10:26:06 We talked about discussing with councilmembers.
10:26:12 I don't do that.
10:26:14 It is not how I conduct my business.
10:26:16 I never have.
10:26:17 I don't even e-mail anybody in council.
10:26:20 But when I saw e-mails flying back and forth, copying
10:26:25 the government and the mayor and all councilmembers, I
10:26:29 just said stop. It's not how we conduct business. I
10:26:29 called Fran twice.
10:26:30 I sent her an e-mail, I said call me, let's have a

10:26:33 meeting, let's talk, that's what neighborhood
10:26:35 associations do.
10:26:36 Here is a junkyard and destroying neighborhoods and
10:26:38 you're not allowed to move forward with this in a
10:26:40 legal format.
10:26:41 I said please, let's just have discussion.
10:26:44 Never got a return phone call.
10:26:45 That bothered me.
10:26:46 I see her here now and I don't question her
10:26:49 convictions of the Gary issue.
10:26:50 There was confusion on the homeowners associations.
10:26:53 We did notice them as such.
10:26:55 But all my client wants to do is stay in business.
10:26:59 Last week, Dave Riley, Mary Brison Danowitz, myself,
10:27:04 our client, we Walked the entire site.
10:27:07 There's two oak trees, 42 and 39.
10:27:10 Probably grands.
10:27:11 My clients immediately went in there and pulled out all
10:27:14 the material, all the equipment.
10:27:16 Automatically started that process for the tree buffer
10:27:19 protection zone.
10:27:20 Now they're going back and putting plates on top of

10:27:22 mulch to allow, in that tree protection zone, the
10:27:28 equipment to go across the roots and protect them.
10:27:31 We outlined the conditions, the steps.
10:27:32 We are under way right now.
10:27:34 It is still an issue that has to be addressed, whether
10:27:37 zoning is approved or denied.
10:27:39 The client just wants to stay in business.
10:27:42 That's all I have, thank you.
10:27:44 >>Linda Saul-Sena: thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:27:46 I'm really pleased that your client, after such a very
10:27:49 long time, is finally not putting very heavy equipment
10:27:53 on the roots of the trees, which has obviously been
10:27:56 there for a very long time.
10:27:58 That's a step in the right direction.
10:28:00 My problem with this petition is that the reality of
10:28:05 this neighborhood is that it's -- there's
10:28:08 single-family homes.
10:28:09 Not multifamily homes to the north of it.
10:28:11 There's a lot of vacant land around it and the other
10:28:14 uses are not heavy industrial.
10:28:16 They tend to be lighter.
10:28:17 I'd prefer you be asking for a less intense zoning

10:28:21 category.
10:28:22 So, I encourage my colleagues to look at this
10:28:26 carefully.
10:28:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It must be my morning for process,
10:28:35 as Mr. Chairman would say.
10:28:36 But I just want to clarify, just for the record, on
10:28:38 any of these petitions, when we get letters or E-mails
10:28:41 in to us, we can't stop them from coming in.
10:28:44 But we have a process, Mr. Shelby will confirm, that
10:28:47 our staff takes those, makes copies of them and puts
10:28:50 them into the record in the clerk's office for the
10:28:53 Petitioner and anybody else to read.
10:28:55 Then we don't respond to them.
10:28:57 Because that would be violation.
10:28:58 So, just for the record, I wanted to make sure that
10:29:01 was clear.
10:29:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion closed.
10:29:03 >> So moved.
10:29:03 >> Second.
10:29:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
10:29:07 Councilman Caetano, you want to read now?
10:29:09 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: 65. ordinance being presented for

10:29:09 second reading and adoption.
10:29:21 An ordinance rezoning property in general vicinity of
10:29:26 3109, 3111 and 3113 east 8th avenue in the city of
10:29:31 Tampa, Florida more particularly described as section
10:29:34 1, from zoning district classification C.I., commercial
10:29:37 intense, to I.G., industrial general, Providing an
10:29:39 effective date.
10:29:44 >> Second.
10:29:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
10:29:47 Second by councilman Miranda.
10:29:49 Record your vote, please.
10:30:00 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena voting no.
10:30:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 66.
10:30:07 Anyone wish to address the council on item 66?
10:30:12 Motion to close.
10:30:13 >> So moved.
10:30:14 >> Second.
10:30:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
10:30:17 Councilwoman Mulhern?
10:30:23 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10:30:24 I move an item, an ordinance being presented for
10:30:27 second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning

10:30:30 property in the general vicinity of 4004 east
10:30:34 Hillsborough avenue and 4005 east Mohawk avenue in the
10:30:39 city of Tampa, Florida, more particularly described in
10:30:42 section 1, from zoning district classification, PD,
10:30:46 planned development restaurant drive-in, Providing an
10:30:48 effective date.
10:30:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second by councilman Miranda.
10:30:52 Record your vote please.
10:30:59 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:31:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 67?
10:31:06 Anyone wish to address council on item 67?
10:31:11 Motion closed.
10:31:12 >> So moved.
10:31:13 >> Second.
10:31:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All signify by saying aye.
10:31:16 Councilman Miranda?
10:31:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:31:20 Move ordinance presented for second reading and
10:31:21 adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the
10:31:24 general vicinity of 4002, 4004 east Deleuil avenue,
10:31:29 and 4003 east Powhatan avenue in the city of Tampa,
10:31:35 Florida.

10:31:36 More particularly described in section 1, from zoning
10:31:39 district classification, residential single-family,
10:31:42 commercial general, Providing an effective date.
10:31:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
10:31:44 Second by councilman Saul-Sena.
10:31:47 Record your vote.
10:31:54 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:31:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to open now for item 69.
10:32:04 >> 69 is continued.
10:32:05 I'll open, Mr. Chairman.
10:32:06 >> Second.
10:32:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It's Past 10:00, I'll open 69, it's
10:32:08 continued.
10:32:09 70, 71, and it is past 10:30, so I'll also open those
10:32:16 72 through.
10:32:21 >>GWEN MILLER: I need to go back.
10:32:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 81.
10:32:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 83, Mr. Chairman.
10:32:29 >> Second.
10:32:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
10:32:36 >> Did you cover number 68?
10:32:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's been removed.

10:32:40 Item 68 was removed.
10:32:40 Item 69.
10:32:49 Continue second public hearing.
10:32:52 >> Department of Business, second public reading on
10:32:58 the transfer of development rights ordinance.
10:33:02 I gave a presentation during first reading, so unless
10:33:05 you have any questions.
10:33:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wish to address council?
10:33:09 >> Move to close.
10:33:09 >> Second.
10:33:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
10:33:13 Councilmember Dingfelder?
10:33:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:33:18 Oh, Linda, you want to read it?
10:33:21 We've been working on this a long time.
10:33:21 Thank you.
10:33:21 Ordinance for second reading and adoption, ordinance
10:33:23 of the city of Tampa, Florida making comprehensive
10:33:26 revisions to the city of Tampa code of ordinances,
10:33:29 chapter 27, zoning.
10:33:32 Amending section 27-153, reserved, amending section

10:33:33 27-272.
10:33:35 Regulations governing individual special uses,
10:33:37 amending section 27-437, district and subdistrict
10:33:42 established procedures for rezoning, amending section
10:33:46 27-438, official schedule of permitted principal,
10:33:50 accessory and special uses, repealing all ordinances
10:33:53 or parts of ordinances in conflict therewith,
10:33:59 providing for severability, Providing an effective
10:34:00 date.
10:34:00 And I'd like to recognize, though they're not in the
10:34:00 audience, All of the people from the preservation
10:34:02 community, Laura locket, Stephanie feral, Gus Paris and
10:34:07 all the people who worked so hard to get this before
10:34:11 us, I hope that we're able to use it as a carrot to
10:34:14 save buildings.
10:34:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second by councilman Dingfelder.
10:34:19 Record your vote.
10:34:28 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:34:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On item 70, am I to understand again
10:34:32 that we are just adding adoption of this resolution,
10:34:35 item 70?
10:34:40 >> That's correct.

10:34:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here wish to address council on
10:34:46 item 70?
10:34:51 Staff want to ask something on the record, on item 70?
10:34:52 Go ahead.
10:34:52 >> Julie Kabougeris, Legal Department.
10:34:56 There should be a resolution in that agenda.
10:35:00 I'm not sure, for some reason it didn't make it on the
10:35:03 agenda.
10:35:04 There's a resolution.
10:35:06 >> I'll move the resolution.
10:35:08 >> Second.
10:35:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we are moving resolution.
10:35:11 Do you have the resolution?
10:35:13 Don't have to read it.
10:35:16 Moved and second.
10:35:17 Moved by councilman Dingfelder, second by Councilwoman
10:35:20 Saul-Sena.
10:35:24 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Can I get some questions answered
10:35:26 on this?
10:35:27 Is this the lighting district where the lights are
10:35:30 going to be in front of the commercial district and
10:35:32 it's going to be paid for by the homeowners in the

10:35:37 back?
10:35:37 Can someone answer that?
10:35:39 >> What was the question?
10:35:42 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Question is, on county line road
10:35:44 and Bruce B. Downs Boulevard.
10:35:46 Okay?
10:35:47 I think there's some 22 lights that are going to be
10:35:50 put up.
10:35:52 These lights are nowhere near the people who are
10:35:55 actually going to be paying this bill.
10:35:57 Unless it's been modified.
10:35:58 People who live in the apartments or condominiums,
10:36:03 whatever they're going to be, all the way in the back,
10:36:05 are going to pay.
10:36:06 And there's no assessment to the commercial property.
10:36:09 I don't think this is fair.
10:36:12 People -- the only thing they're going to light up is
10:36:16 the front of the commercial properties.
10:36:19 >> Under our subdivision code, in order for a
10:36:24 petitioner, or applicant to get subdivision approval,
10:36:27 they're required to install roads and things like
10:36:30 that.

10:36:30 This road is installed in the parameters of the
10:36:37 subdivision, as it was applied for.
10:36:41 From what I understand, and I don't know if staff
10:36:47 needs to answer this question.
10:36:49 But, the legal, the -- the legal description is for
10:36:53 lots on the west side of the road.
10:36:55 And for lots on the east side, although there aren't
10:36:58 any buildings there in the picture that you saw that
10:37:02 we have before you.
10:37:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, I don't think it's
10:37:11 fair to the people living in these residential homes
10:37:13 and where the money is going to be made, these
10:37:15 commercial properties -- I know we have a fire station
10:37:17 that's going to be built on the corner there.
10:37:19 But I don't think the people living all the way in the
10:37:22 back are going to gain from anything with these
10:37:24 lights.
10:37:25 I think the commercial division should be, have an
10:37:29 assessment also.
10:37:30 I cannot support this.
10:37:32 It's just not fair.
10:37:35 >> I would recommend the staff answer your questions,

10:37:41 because I'm not able to.
10:37:42 So if you want to continue this until staff will get
10:37:45 here.
10:37:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We can hold that in abeyance.
10:37:49 I guess my question would be, can staff draft
10:37:50 something, pretty much what he's saying, going to be
10:37:54 equally distributed, to those who are coming into the
10:37:58 area, versus those who initially were there.
10:38:01 And then they have to pay for everybody.
10:38:02 That's the issue.
10:38:04 The issue of fairness.
10:38:06 >> Right.
10:38:06 Right.
10:38:07 Staff will be able to answer that, I'm sure.
10:38:10 However, keep in mind this resolution, if you decide,
10:38:15 needs to be passed today.
10:38:16 Because there's a deadline.
10:38:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You probably need to have somebody
10:38:21 from staff come down and address this question.
10:38:23 We will take it up later on.
10:38:24 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I just want to add
10:38:28 this is a major problem within the city of people who

10:38:31 are paying for lights, that are nowheres near their
10:38:34 homes or their businesses.
10:38:36 And this -- I cannot support it.
10:38:39 Just not fair.
10:38:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can I have a motion to continue this
10:38:42 item to later on in the agenda?
10:38:44 >> So moved.
10:38:45 >> Second.
10:38:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor, signify by saying aye.
10:38:49 Opposed?
10:38:49 I'm going to move over 71, because that's going to take
10:38:52 a little while, and we have 10:30 time certain.
10:38:55 What I'd like to do, however, is take up item 7, so we
10:38:59 won't hold staff here on that.
10:39:00 That's the collective bargaining agreement.
10:39:03 They can come forward.
10:39:05 And then we will take up item-- that leaves just a
10:39:11 vote.
10:39:12 Then take up the HCC item.
10:39:14 Yes?
10:39:16 >> Good morning, chairman Scott, members of City
10:39:19 Council, I'm Kimberly Crum, the director of human

10:39:21 resources.
10:39:22 I'm before you today on item number 7, which is the
10:39:25 city's collective bargaining agreement with the
10:39:28 international association of firefighters local 754.
10:39:31 This agreement is the agreement for the fiscal year
10:39:35 2009, which began back October 1st.
10:39:38 And we are before you today as a normal course.
10:39:42 The agreement has been agreed to by both parties.
10:39:45 It has been ratified by the employees.
10:39:47 So we are before you today for your review and
10:39:51 concurrence on this agreement.
10:39:53 I have provided an executive summary for you that
10:39:58 highlights each of the contract articles.
10:40:01 However, today I'm only going to cover a couple of
10:40:03 items of particular interest.
10:40:05 First of all, this is a one-year contract.
10:40:08 And again, it has managed all the way through the
10:40:11 process, and it's before you today for your final
10:40:14 decision.
10:40:15 When we completed last year's agreement, the 2008
10:40:19 agreement, we almost immediately went into workshop
10:40:22 sessions to begin working on some of the items that

10:40:25 were left to be discussed for this year's contract.
10:40:28 Most notably, the step pay plan.
10:40:33 I wanted to share with you today much progress has
10:40:35 been made on that step pay plan.
10:40:37 You may recall that there were some super steps that
10:40:40 were very important to the firefighters.
10:40:42 And those have been preserved in the contract that's
10:40:44 before you today.
10:40:45 And also, we were looking to smooth the steps through
10:40:49 the pay plan.
10:40:50 And we have done that in the agreement that's before
10:40:52 you today as well.
10:40:53 In addition, since last September, when we began our
10:40:58 efforts, of course there have been a number of
10:41:00 economic impacts that were all -- we are all aware of.
10:41:04 The wage agreement that's before you today, is a cost
10:41:07 of living increase of two and a half percent across
10:41:10 the board.
10:41:10 And that reflects the economic realities.
10:41:12 And then finally, I wanted to note that we are
10:41:16 preserving the special assignment pay for both
10:41:20 emergency medical technicians at $30 biweekly payment,

10:41:25 For each emergency medical technician.
10:41:27 And also $110 biweekly for each of the paramedics.
10:41:32 And so with that I'd just like to acknowledge all the
10:41:36 work by both the union bargaining team and city's
10:41:39 bargaining team that's been accomplished this year.
10:41:41 And ask for your consideration of the agreement that's
10:41:44 before you.
10:41:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Ms. Crum.
10:41:47 Thank you all for your hard work.
10:41:49 You and as well as the union and I'm sure council is
10:41:55 going to support this today.
10:41:57 Councilman Dingfelder?
10:41:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:42:00 And thank you, Ms. Crum.
10:42:02 And thank you to the union that's brought this here
10:42:06 and all of our workers in the city.
10:42:08 As you stated, the times are tough.
10:42:11 Tough for the city.
10:42:13 In a few months we are going to be looking at
10:42:15 significant budget cuts.
10:42:16 Some of them in the neighborhood of 20, $25 million.
10:42:20 And everybody's lucky to have a job.

10:42:23 And we all know people who don't.
10:42:25 And so if there's any time for labor and management to
10:42:29 get along and to be very prudent and conservative,
10:42:31 this is the time.
10:42:33 So I'm pleased that both sides were able to resolve
10:42:35 this amicably and come to council hand in hand.
10:42:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
10:42:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:42:44 Echoing on the same lines that were just spoken, I
10:42:48 don't have a view because I haven't received the
10:42:54 information yet from the administration.
10:42:54 I'm certainly in the next month or so it will be all
10:42:58 out.
10:42:59 What is our financial situation?
10:43:00 In other words, we have decreasing revenues,
10:43:03 increasing costs.
10:43:05 And how far down the road are these axes going to meet
10:43:10 before someone is going to get laid off?
10:43:12 I spoke about this last time and I said, you know,
10:43:16 there was 697,000 people laid off last month.
10:43:20 In America.
10:43:21 There's over, I believe, 10 million people unemployed

10:43:26 that were working at one time.
10:43:28 We have had cutbacks in just about -- let me put it
10:43:35 this way.
10:43:36 I don't know of an industry who has not had a cutback.
10:43:39 And those who have not, are now out of business.
10:43:43 So what I'm trying to say is, where do we sit down and
10:43:49 understand that this government or any government can
10:43:53 no longer continue to grow, can no longer -- the
10:43:57 government of yesterday is gone.
10:43:58 That's never going to come back.
10:44:00 I don't think you're going -- and I'm not trying to be
10:44:03 a pessimist, Mr. Chairman.
10:44:06 I'm trying to be a realist.
10:44:08 It may take years for this economy to turn around.
10:44:11 If you looked at the stock market and if you look at
10:44:13 what we are going to have to pay out, and rightly so,
10:44:17 that's the contract we made, on capitalization of the
10:44:23 fund to meet our obligations for retirees, it is big.
10:44:27 It's a big hole.
10:44:30 So I don't know, maybe you have some answers.
10:44:33 I'm not asking you for all of them.
10:44:35 But how are we going to continue to capitalize on all

10:44:38 these projects and pay for them, unless we look around
10:44:42 and, I would say no more than two years, one of eight
10:44:46 or nine employees won't be with us.
10:44:48 And I'm not trying to scare anyone.
10:44:51 What I'm trying to do -- last time I offered to take a
10:44:54 pay cut.
10:44:55 No one else spoke up.
10:44:56 No representative of the good brothers and sisters of
10:45:01 this city spoke up.
10:45:02 I have had calls that, why are we reducing it from
10:45:07 three and a half to two and a half?
10:45:08 And my answer were, you know, look around.
10:45:11 Read the papers.
10:45:13 See how many individuals are losing their jobs, and
10:45:17 then you tell me what you'd rather have.
10:45:20 A two and a half or one of eight of you gone?
10:45:22 And you know what the answer was in the great
10:45:25 majority?
10:45:25 I want my raise.
10:45:26 And that really, really bothered me.
10:45:29 It wasn't about let's work together.
10:45:34 Let's try to get out of this hole.

10:45:36 Let's swim to the shoreline and walk forward and start
10:45:39 doing the right thing.
10:45:40 It was all about me.
10:45:43 And that really, really concerned me that some -- not
10:45:49 all -- have this attitude.
10:45:50 And it's not going to be as rosy as some of these
10:45:57 elected officials tell you.
10:45:59 Yes, there will be a stimulus.
10:46:01 Yes, there will be an increase in funding.
10:46:03 But all this comes with a cost.
10:46:05 And that cost is what is called pay-back time.
10:46:09 Somewhere along the line, we are going to do wonders
10:46:13 with what we have.
10:46:15 And I give the correct hands-off and hats-off to the
10:46:19 employees who are working more and doing more than
10:46:22 they were before because the numbers have shrunk.
10:46:26 And I don't have all the numbers.
10:46:27 In fact, I don't have any numbers.
10:46:30 But I guarantee you, that as the sales tax keeps
10:46:35 decreasing, gas tax keeps decreasing, devaluation of
10:46:39 the homes, today's standards, as they stabilize, those
10:46:43 homes ain't worth -- in other words, we are not going

10:46:46 to collect the ad valorem taxes we were before.
10:46:48 So there's going to be a drop, a huge drop, and I
10:46:52 don't know how you all, the administration, is going
10:46:54 to cover for that with increasing costs.
10:46:57 That's what I want to say, Mr. Chairman.
10:46:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:47:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to say I think, I know
10:47:05 that I also offered to accept a pay cut last year when
10:47:10 we were talking about the budget and people getting
10:47:12 laid off.
10:47:12 I think other people on council did too.
10:47:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:47:18 Motion on item.
10:47:19 >> So moved.
10:47:21 >> Second.
10:47:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Been moved and second.
10:47:23 Moved by councilwoman Miller, seconded by councilman
10:47:26 Dingfelder.
10:47:28 All in favor signify by saying aye.
10:47:31 Opposes?
10:47:32 Thanks again to our fire unions, firefighters and all
10:47:35 their hard work.

10:47:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll take up item from HCC, then come
10:47:58 back to, come back out and hear from Mr. Bentley.
10:48:02 [Speaking off microphone]
10:48:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, we are going to take up to HCC and
10:48:12 then come back to you all after that, okay?
10:48:14 Let me hear from Mr. Manteiga and Mr. Capitano, you
10:48:20 all have a spokesperson?
10:48:28 The agenda calls for ten minute presentation.
10:48:30 Then we will hear response from HCC.
10:48:34 >> Thank you very much.
10:48:36 Patrick Manteiga.
10:48:38 Address is 10905 Tree Saber drive.
10:48:44 I represent the Cuban club foundation, who has a
10:48:48 historic building in Ybor City.
10:48:50 >> Patrick, excuse me.
10:48:57 Pass half a resolution.
10:48:58 Now go a full resolution.
10:49:00 >> Thank you.
10:49:01 We are here to discuss our concerns regarding the
10:49:06 building that HCC is constructing, the student
10:49:09 services building in Ybor City.
10:49:11 And the city's reaction to the construction of this

10:49:14 building.
10:49:16 HCC built this building without any approval of the
10:49:19 BLC, without coming before the city, did not even come
10:49:24 in front of other groups in Ybor City.
10:49:28 Feeling that they were exempt from the Barrio Latino's
10:49:37 guidelines.
10:49:38 We asked the city to clarify whether it had a position
10:49:42 in this and whether its rules were enforceable in
10:49:45 December.
10:49:46 And encouraged the city to ask for an A.G.O. opinion.
10:49:51 At this time, we still have not seen an A.G.O.
10:49:54 opinion.
10:49:55 Don't know if one has been asked for yet.
10:49:58 But in our research, we did find an A.G.O. opinion we
10:50:02 felt was very comparable to the situation.
10:50:03 And basically, HCC is exempt from building codes,
10:50:09 safety codes of the city.
10:50:11 The state has those standards.
10:50:13 But the state doesn't have a comprehensive plan for
10:50:16 this area.
10:50:17 The city does.
10:50:18 And the county does.

10:50:19 And the BLC is part of that and therefore, according
10:50:23 to the A.G.O., you know, adopted comprehensive plans
10:50:28 that the agency such as HCC through the state have to
10:50:33 respond to those plans and comply with those plans.
10:50:36 And we feel the BLC is an arm of that comprehensive
10:50:39 plan.
10:50:39 It's an arm of zoning.
10:50:40 They deal with such things as setbacks.
10:50:43 They deal with the look of a property.
10:50:46 The height of a building.
10:50:48 They don't deal with generally the quality of
10:50:52 construction materials that are going into a building
10:50:54 and things like this.
10:50:55 And the city at this point has taken a position that
10:51:02 it's willing to bargain with HCC.
10:51:06 That it would -- that it would never have to go in
10:51:09 front of the BLC.
10:51:11 That it would go in front of a city staffer and we
10:51:14 feel that's inappropriate.
10:51:16 The fabric of the historic district requires that
10:51:20 everybody meet a certain standard.
10:51:23 We feel that the city should come to a plan where

10:51:26 either they find out HCC has to comply to the rules or
10:51:30 HCC is exempt from them.
10:51:32 We don't think this middle ground, if we're not really
10:51:36 sure, therefore, we're going to compromise, is a good
10:51:38 position to have.
10:51:39 HCC's chief complaint is that it's a bother to go in
10:51:42 front of the BLT, they can be tough to deal with,
10:51:45 don't know how it's going to work out at the end of
10:51:47 the day.
10:51:48 And we certainly understand that.
10:51:49 I think every person who builds in Ybor City or in the
10:51:52 city would have the same complaints whether it was
10:51:54 regarding your own building departments or the BLC.
10:51:59 If being a hassle was a good excuse to get out of it,
10:52:02 I think your halls would be filled with people looking
10:52:05 for a bargain like that.
10:52:06 So we are hoping that the City Council can do
10:52:10 something in regards to the city's current position of
10:52:13 allowing this gray area to exist and would stand up
10:52:19 for the district.
10:52:20 The district is not just the historic buildings.
10:52:23 It's also the vacant spaces.

10:52:25 It's the alleys, the streets.
10:52:27 And we just really feel that there needs to be a
10:52:33 stronger stance by the city.
10:52:35 And we have been able to get out of administration, so
10:52:38 we have come to you.
10:52:38 I have other people with me.
10:52:39 I represent the Cuban club, directly across the street.
10:52:43 Joe Capitano and Al Kahana, who are with the El
10:52:44 Pasaje.
10:52:49 Together we form one of the most historic blocks in
10:52:49 Ybor City.
10:52:49 This building is right in the way.
10:52:52 As you can see, on the Elmo, that it just really isn't
10:52:55 in keeping with the historic character of Ybor City.
10:53:01 If this would have gone in front of the BLC, it never
10:53:04 would have been approved this way and would have been
10:53:06 corrected.
10:53:07 So that's really all I have to say on it.
10:53:10 Mark?
10:53:11 >> Mark Bentley, 21 North Franklin.
10:53:15 I represent the Cuban club, Ybor Square and El Pasaje.
10:53:20 These are the properties in closest proximity to the

10:53:23 new student center, which is currently under
10:53:26 construction on 10th avenue.
10:53:27 Want to bring to your attention, and I concur
10:53:30 obviously with Patrick.
10:53:30 If you look at the HCC master plans, they have 250,000
10:53:35 square feet built.
10:53:36 And if you look at the master plan, they contemplate
10:53:39 another 500,000 square feet.
10:53:42 Okay, they're going to triple in size, a major
10:53:45 landowner in Ybor City, actually they have property
10:53:49 that's contiguous to eighth avenue.
10:53:51 In the YC one district.
10:53:55 So, we would like to have establish some process with
10:54:00 some legitimate teeth to ensure that there's some
10:54:03 compliance.
10:54:04 I mean when you boil it down, the future of Ybor is
10:54:08 really at stake here.
10:54:08 You have a major landowner who is going to dictate the
10:54:11 architectural style, with the only gem or one of the
10:54:15 gems of the city of Tampa.
10:54:17 So I'd like to turn over to Alan Kahana for a second
10:54:22 and he's going to explain a process that we think

10:54:26 makes sense.
10:54:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How much time do they have left?
10:54:27 You have four minutes left.
10:54:31 >> And seven seconds.
10:54:33 [ Laughter ]
10:54:34 >> Alan Kahana, 320 Blanca avenue.
10:54:38 First of all, I want to thank HCC for participating.
10:54:42 We have had a number of meetings with folks,
10:54:44 administration as well as their attorneys.
10:54:45 I think there's a genuine misunderstanding about
10:54:48 whether the Barrio applies to their properties.
10:54:52 It is imperative though for us to make decision.
10:54:56 What mark was referring to, we had some discussions
10:54:58 about interlocal agreement being written between the
10:55:00 city of Tampa and HCC, to try and describe a process.
10:55:04 And one of the ideas that came up, not in discussions
10:55:08 with HCC, but with my own discussions with members of
10:55:11 the Barrio, is that if we don't find that they're
10:55:15 under the jurisdiction strictly of the Barrio and have
10:55:17 to comply and go through the entire process, that
10:55:21 maybe we could go ahead and have them go in front of
10:55:24 the Barrio staff, work a design that would be more

10:55:28 compatible and referenced in the historic district.
10:55:31 And that maybe the final arbiter would be at the state
10:55:34 level.
10:55:35 In the department of historic preservation up there.
10:55:38 Thank you.
10:55:43 >> Angelo Peres, I represent the Florida historic
10:55:47 commission up in Tallahassee.
10:55:49 The commission is very, very concerned as to what is
10:55:52 happening here in Tampa.
10:55:53 This building may not be in the historic landmark, but
10:55:59 the landmark ends at palm and that building is in
10:56:03 palm.
10:56:04 Therefore, it is a contributing structure to the
10:56:07 historic landmark.
10:56:08 Which is in total violation.
10:56:10 Whenever you build in a historic district, or a
10:56:14 contributing structure as this, you have to submit
10:56:17 documents to the division of historical resources.
10:56:22 And those documents were never submitted.
10:56:26 And very, very concerned in Tallahassee that they are
10:56:30 totally exempt from local ordinances.
10:56:32 I do have a copy of the statutes.

10:56:34 And I will hand the statutes to your secretary.
10:56:37 Thank you very much.
10:56:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:56:48 >> Joseph Capitano, 3400 Lykes avenue, Tampa, Florida.
10:56:53 I want to thank HCC for being able to sit down with
10:56:57 them and talk to them and negotiate with them and make
10:56:59 some changes on these buildings.
10:57:01 However, the changes that they have agreed to are not
10:57:05 near what we really think we should have and what we
10:57:07 need and we are asking that some teeth be put into
10:57:10 this ordinance for the future.
10:57:11 If we don't win this one, that's -- we'd like to see
10:57:16 some changes made to make it more adaptable to Ybor
10:57:19 City.
10:57:19 However, we are talking about the future when Mark
10:57:23 Bentley says there's 500,000 more square feet of
10:57:28 building going to be built, you can't let this keep
10:57:31 going on.
10:57:32 This has got to be addressed and they have to go in
10:57:34 front of an authority with some teeth in it.
10:57:37 If I go to build a building or do something, I have
10:57:39 got to do it.

10:57:40 Anybody else has got to do it.
10:57:42 Why should they be exempt?
10:57:44 I don't think it is a right situation.
10:57:45 If we are going to preserve the historic district, we
10:57:48 definitely need to work this out.
10:57:49 Thank you.
10:57:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:57:52 How much time we have left?
10:57:57 >>THE CLERK: Minute and a half.
10:57:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Minute and a half.
10:57:59 >> We've been down in Ybor for a long time.
10:58:09 We watched a lot of bad buildings go up.
10:58:13 BLC is not perfect.
10:58:14 Sometimes they don't do a good job.
10:58:16 Sometimes they do too good a job.
10:58:18 The process, you know, isn't everything it should be.
10:58:21 But it's the only process we have.
10:58:23 I don't see how the city can stand anywhere, other
10:58:27 place and say everybody has to face the same process.
10:58:30 It's the only fair way of going, only way we can keep
10:58:33 the historic fabric of the district alive.
10:58:36 We have talked to administration, we have talked to

10:58:39 city attorney.
10:58:40 We have talked to HCC.
10:58:41 We are here because we can't work it out any other
10:58:45 way.
10:58:45 Those who care and love about, and love Ybor City, are
10:58:48 putting ourselves in your mercy and trying to find
10:58:53 some strength here on council to bring this to a head
10:58:56 and, you know, if we can't fix what we have coming out
10:59:00 of the ground, at least we need to make sure this
10:59:02 never happens again.
10:59:03 10 years ago we were here when they built another bad
10:59:09 building in Ybor City.
10:59:10 They promised they would do better.
10:59:10 They wrote a letter, nobody can find the letter, the
10:59:14 person who promised it is no longer with HCC.
10:59:16 So therefore we are not worried about that.
10:59:18 We are afraid whatever gentleman's agreement comes
10:59:20 about this time will have the same effect 10 years
10:59:24 from now.
10:59:24 That's why we don't feel we can stand on allowing a
10:59:27 deal to be made.
10:59:28 We need something in writing.

10:59:30 Thank you.
10:59:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We will hear from Dr. Stephanson or
10:59:34 the HCC representative at this time.
10:59:39 They will have ten minutes.
10:59:40 Then we need to hear from legal.
10:59:42 >> Thank you.
10:59:43 Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of the City
10:59:46 Council.
10:59:46 Thank you very much for hearing these issues pertinent
10:59:50 to the new student services building in Ybor City.
10:59:53 I'm not here to discuss legal issues.
10:59:56 That's for our attorneys to discuss.
10:59:58 But I am here to tell you that the college has had
11:00:01 significant dialogue with the community about the
11:00:04 design of the new student services building.
11:00:07 I appreciate your taking your individual time to meet
11:00:10 with me so that I could share with you the goals that
11:00:14 we imparted to the architect when we actually started
11:00:17 planning for this new student services building.
11:00:23 The Ybor campus is the one campus that does not have a
11:00:28 student services building.
11:00:29 It's been the goal of the college for the last eleven

11:00:32 years I have been here as president to garner state
11:00:34 resources in order to build this building for our
11:00:37 students on the Ybor campus.
11:00:42 We designed the building so it related to three major
11:00:45 objectives.
11:00:47 One was that it be compatible with the historic
11:00:51 district.
11:00:52 The second it be compatible with the considerable
11:00:54 modern design of the campus as it presently exists.
11:00:58 And third, it had to be a green historic building.
11:01:01 We believe that the architects have addressed those
11:01:04 three goals.
11:01:05 We are disappointed that members of the community are
11:01:09 displeased with the design.
11:01:11 But we also know that architectural design is a very
11:01:15 subjective thing.
11:01:16 And while some like it, others do not.
11:01:21 We believe that as a result of working with the
11:01:23 groups, the various community groups, we have added
11:01:25 some enhancements to the building that will make it
11:01:28 more compatible, a significant number of enhancements,
11:01:32 I might add.

11:01:33 We also believe that as a result of my working with
11:01:36 the mayor and her staff, that we have come up with a
11:01:39 very reasonable agreement.
11:01:41 We are working to develop an interlocal agreement that
11:01:44 will assure that in the future, that before we
11:01:49 finalize plans, for any exterior changes to our
11:01:53 buildings on the Ybor City campus, or with new
11:01:56 construction, that we will run those plans by the
11:02:00 department of construction and historic preservation
11:02:03 to get their comments.
11:02:05 And we are committed to evaluating those comments
11:02:08 before we finalize our plans.
11:02:10 So we believe that as a result of our meeting with the
11:02:13 mayor and others, that we have come up with a very
11:02:15 reasonable solution.
11:02:16 And I would ask that you make sure you look at that
11:02:21 solution.
11:02:21 And I thank you for taking your time to hear the
11:02:23 issues related to the student services building on the
11:02:26 Ybor campus.
11:02:27 And I will be here if you have any questions you'd
11:02:30 like to ask me about these issues.

11:02:31 Thank you very much.
11:02:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to hear -- that concludes your
11:02:37 presentation?
11:02:38 >> Yes.
11:02:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to hear from legal,
11:02:40 Mr. Fletcher.
11:02:41 Then take questions from the council.
11:02:43 Councilmember Dingfelder first and then councilwomen
11:02:47 Saul-Sena.
11:02:50 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Good morning, as you can see, the
11:02:52 city is somewhat caught in between the interests here
11:02:54 of both HCC and the individuals who are active in the
11:03:00 Ybor area.
11:03:01 And both sides make some compelling points.
11:03:03 In reviewing this initially, my view was, and
11:03:10 continues to be, that the state statute on this issue
11:03:12 is not clear.
11:03:14 It attempts to separate out requirements for building
11:03:20 code and construction standards from zoning and
11:03:23 planning requirements.
11:03:25 Where the Barrio Latino Commission standards fall
11:03:33 within, my opinion, are within the planning and zoning

11:03:35 standards.
11:03:35 I think that's the way it's written.
11:03:38 However, when the attorney general's office has looked
11:03:42 at this issue, when it's been an issue with planning
11:03:45 and zoning, they have come down and there are three
11:03:49 separate opinions find the educational facilities have
11:03:51 to follow those requirements.
11:03:52 However, there is another attorney general opinion
11:03:55 that finds that where the same activity is regulated,
11:04:01 that the state building standards control.
11:04:03 And that was an instance where there were county
11:04:06 standards related to how child care facilities were
11:04:09 done and there were state building code standards for
11:04:12 educational facilities.
11:04:13 HCC's position is that this situation is more Akin to
11:04:18 that second attorney general opinion because both the
11:04:22 state building standards that HCC has to follow under
11:04:25 the department of education, regulate things like
11:04:29 building materials and landscaping and windows and
11:04:32 those types of things.
11:04:34 And the BLC guidelines regulate those as well.
11:04:38 I believe that on their face, we can find, as other

11:04:43 folks in other situations do, compatibility between
11:04:46 the state standards and the local standards.
11:04:49 But as we have met and discussed these things, HCC has
11:04:53 presented some instances where requirements that have
11:04:57 been imposed are in their view and with some
11:05:03 persuasiveness that they are in conflict with the
11:05:07 state requirements variable to build.
11:05:10 Based on those discussions, the mayor has asked us to
11:05:15 work out this interlocal agreement process that's been
11:05:18 described.
11:05:18 We think it is a approach that can allow there to be
11:05:25 some consideration of the historic standards.
11:05:29 I will tell you that I think we have a ways to go
11:05:32 before we reach agreement on exactly how that process
11:05:35 is going to work.
11:05:36 I'm not sure if you read my memo and listened to the
11:05:39 comments earlier, that we are actually on the same
11:05:42 page with HCCAF, but I think we are getting close.
11:05:47 And I am optimistic that that will be a way to
11:05:50 maintain some historic control over the historic
11:05:54 compatibility within the district without interfering
11:05:58 with HCC's needs to be able to ultimately submit their

11:06:03 plans to the board of education for approval.
11:06:06 That's the rub.
11:06:08 We have the BLC with design approval authority under
11:06:11 our code.
11:06:11 The state board of education has design approval
11:06:14 authority under the state statute, and trying to find a
11:06:18 way that both of those can be honored is the challenge.
11:06:21 That's why we think this interlocal agreement approach
11:06:25 is valid.
11:06:27 It would ultimately need to come to you all for
11:06:29 approval so it is binding.
11:06:31 It would also go to the HCC board for their approval,
11:06:35 so it would be binding, so it would not be a
11:06:37 gentlemen's agreement that could be forgotten in 10 or
11:06:40 15 or 20 years.
11:06:42 So that is where we are today.
11:06:44 Only other comment I would make is if the council is
11:06:49 displeased with this result, I would say that I can't
11:06:54 argue that this isn't different treatment than other
11:06:56 folks within the Barrio.
11:06:58 I think it clearly is.
11:06:59 But the place where we would need to take that issue

11:07:02 to is the legislature.
11:07:03 I think that would be where we would need to go.
11:07:06 If we were to seek an AG opinion or to litigate, we
11:07:09 obviously would have some risk of not having any
11:07:12 control at all.
11:07:13 And that is I think not necessarily the direction we
11:07:17 would want to go, just so you're fully aware, in
11:07:23 evaluating whether we could go to court and directly
11:07:26 enforce and force HCC to come in on this particular
11:07:30 building, there is in chapter 164, a mandatory
11:07:35 mediation process that takes -- usually at least 90
11:07:40 days.
11:07:40 So if you all were thinking that perhaps we could go
11:07:44 to court and get an injunction and stop this stuff in
11:07:47 its tracks, even if we were in the best legal position
11:07:49 to do that, the fact that we would have to go through
11:07:52 that mandatory mediation process slows that down
11:07:55 substantially.
11:07:56 I don't believe the administration is interested in
11:07:58 doing that.
11:07:58 We are not recommending it.
11:08:00 But in evaluating the various options, I thought you

11:08:03 should be aware of that, that there is this mandatory
11:08:07 mediation process that's very elaborate and public and
11:08:11 applies to any suit between two public agencies.
11:08:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder and councilwoman
11:08:18 Saul-Sena.
11:08:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Fletcher, you know,
11:08:23 it's clear we have a lot of passions here.
11:08:27 President Stephanson is passionate about education,
11:08:31 and students, and I praise you for the great job you
11:08:36 have done for our community.
11:08:37 And likewise our Ybor advocates are passionate about
11:08:41 Ybor and historic preservation in Ybor.
11:08:43 And we praise them for that as well.
11:08:47 I think it is up to the council and mayor to try to
11:08:50 mediate towards those passions.
11:08:53 It concerns me a little bit when we talked about an
11:08:57 interlocal agreement or memorandum of understanding in
11:09:01 terms of the teeth.
11:09:02 I can't remember, Mrs. Saul-Sena or somebody else said
11:09:04 something about the teeth.
11:09:05 Mr. Manteiga I guess.
11:09:08 And that Concerns me.

11:09:15 Because we need to treat everybody similarly or alike.
11:09:18 That's our obligation under the law.
11:09:20 The Barrio has a lot of teeth as related to everybody
11:09:23 else in Ybor.
11:09:24 With that said, the Barrio basically, you mentioned
11:09:27 going to the state legislature and I had forgotten
11:09:30 that.
11:09:30 The Barrio is controlled by special act.
11:09:33 >> No, let me clarify that point.
11:09:35 We have our local code that creates the Barrio and
11:09:40 they have their design standards.
11:09:42 The conflict here is under the state statute that
11:09:44 creates a special permit and building standards for
11:09:53 community colleges.
11:09:54 There is an act that essentially exempts them from
11:09:58 local building codes.
11:09:59 I don't think there's any question that they are
11:10:02 exempt from the building codes.
11:10:03 Then the question is, well, can we find another way to
11:10:09 articulate authority?
11:10:12 And while we -- while investigating that, basically
11:10:16 HCC has taken the position that while we can argue

11:10:19 that these are through our comp plan, they're zoning
11:10:24 standards, part of our land development regulations,
11:10:26 when you come right down to it, they're regulating the
11:10:29 same things that are in the state building code.
11:10:32 And therefore, based on the attorney general opinion I
11:10:36 referenced earlier, they would be exempt from those
11:10:39 standards.
11:10:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What I might suggest is this, HCC
11:10:44 says they have got to abide by the state educational
11:10:47 construction standards.
11:10:48 And green standards.
11:10:49 We want them to abide by green standards as well.
11:10:52 The city, of course, we have got our Barrio standards,
11:10:55 our historic standards.
11:10:56 What I'm wondering about is, and I'm glad we don't
11:10:59 have to go to legislature, because we do have our own
11:11:02 code on this.
11:11:03 Why don't we draft a section of the Barrio code that
11:11:08 is specific to HCC?
11:11:11 And it would create the exceptions that are already in
11:11:16 the state statute.
11:11:17 It would recognize those exceptions.

11:11:19 It would exempt them from those sections.
11:11:22 But it would say but for, but for those provisions,
11:11:27 everything else related to the design and architecture
11:11:30 of these building must meet Barrio standards and they
11:11:34 need to come in front of the Barrio board.
11:11:35 Because that way, we would accommodate state law,
11:11:40 which we need to and we have to anyway, even though
11:11:43 state law might be a little murky.
11:11:45 But we can say we are going to accommodate that state
11:11:47 law.
11:11:47 But at the same time they need to be treated like
11:11:50 everybody else for all other issues.
11:11:52 And I think that as opposed to something that's a
11:11:56 little bit loosey-goosey like a memoranda of
11:12:01 understanding or interlocal agreement, which are
11:12:03 always hard to enforce.
11:12:04 I never see an interlocal agreement really go to court
11:12:08 or anything like that.
11:12:09 I think that might be fair.
11:12:12 Because I'll tell you what, these aren't just
11:12:15 gentlemen who, you know, who care about Ybor.
11:12:18 These are gentlemen who fix up buildings to barrio

11:12:21 standards.
11:12:26 So if I'm them or whoever is putting money into Ybor,
11:12:29 I would say wait a second, why do I have to put
11:12:32 millions of dollars into meeting Barrio standards, but
11:12:35 the government, the community college doesn't?
11:12:38 And I think that's -- has some inherent unfairness.
11:12:43 Dr. Stephanson, with all due respect, I think there
11:12:46 might be a compromise here that can last long past we
11:12:51 are all gone and meet all the objectives everybody
11:12:53 wants to meet.
11:12:54 But, you know, but perhaps formalize it a little more.
11:13:00 So, you know, let's hear what everybody else has to
11:13:04 say.
11:13:04 That's my thought.
11:13:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena and then
11:13:09 Mulhern.
11:13:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:13:11 In December, I was summoned hurriedly to Ybor to
11:13:15 listen to the windows of a Cuban club rattle during
11:13:18 Construction.
11:13:19 Had we taken some action then, we might have been able
11:13:24 to effect the design of this building.

11:13:26 I think we all recognize now that except for the few
11:13:30 modest changes, such as the hue of the paint, this
11:13:34 building is going to go up basically as it's planned.
11:13:38 With no relationship to the significant building
11:13:40 across the street.
11:13:41 I want to compliment HCC on the work they did on the
11:13:46 lobe nick building.
11:13:51 Excellent job.
11:13:51 The barrier in the new construction not being
11:13:56 compatible.
11:13:57 The only way we as a city who are responsible for
11:14:00 protecting our national landmark district, Ybor City,
11:14:03 the only way we can assure ourselves of compatibility
11:14:06 is to have review by the Barrio Latino.
11:14:11 The Barrio Latino has been very successful with a
11:14:14 number of new construction projects in getting designs
11:14:17 that work.
11:14:18 The difference between the original submissions, which
11:14:20 are usually off base, often by out of town architects
11:14:24 who aren't keyed in to what the character of Ybor is.
11:14:27 And the final drawings after it's worked through with
11:14:29 our staff, is so much improved.

11:14:32 Building going up in Ybor is absolutely not supportive
11:14:36 of the Barrio.
11:14:37 And the most chilling information I heard today is
11:14:41 that 500,000 perhaps square feet of new construction
11:14:47 is something we could anticipate in Ybor.
11:14:50 We have to protect this asset.
11:14:53 It is not just the Tampa asset.
11:14:55 It is a national asset.
11:14:56 We have to do everything we can to make sure that the
11:15:01 designs proposed are developed in conjunction with the
11:15:04 design of Ybor City.
11:15:06 And to accomplish that, we need Barrio review.
11:15:09 And we need architects who get historic preservation
11:15:13 and we need construction companies who understand the
11:15:16 responsibilities of constructing new structures across
11:15:19 the street from historic structures.
11:15:21 I think Mr. Dingfelder, you have come up with a very
11:15:23 innovative suggestion today and I hope we pursue that.
11:15:27 What's before us as a draft basis is simply not
11:15:32 substantive enough.
11:15:33 In the words of someone, it doesn't have legitimate
11:15:38 teeth.

11:15:39 It needs to have the authority and weight and
11:15:43 professionalism of the Barrio.
11:15:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern?
11:15:52 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
11:15:53 I have a lot of questions about this.
11:15:54 But I just want to point out to everyone that in the
11:15:59 two years I have been on council, I have not seen this
11:16:03 city do anything with any teeth, I guess the TDR's
11:16:11 today.
11:16:11 But to support historic preservation.
11:16:14 I just don't think it's something that we are doing.
11:16:18 We talk about it all the time and we have react to
11:16:21 things after they have happened.
11:16:22 But I don't -- you know, I think we have some major,
11:16:27 major problems with, you know, I don't know if it's
11:16:32 with the code.
11:16:32 But you know, Mr. Dingfelder brought up trying to
11:16:35 reconcile the state and local requirements.
11:16:39 And my question for you, Mr. Fletcher is, have you
11:16:45 looked at where those, in this particular case, with
11:16:48 this building, what are the things that conflict?
11:16:54 Do we have a list of the things that?

11:16:59 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: HCC provided a legal memo that
11:17:01 outlined, I don't know, 12 or 18 items that directly
11:17:05 conflicted in their view.
11:17:06 From the facing of the windows to the material for
11:17:12 construction of the building to the landscaping.
11:17:17 >>MARY MULHERN: So is this a conflict of what the
11:17:19 state requires of the building?
11:17:21 Or of what the minimum standard is from the state?
11:17:27 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: HCC may want to address that.
11:17:29 They have design guidelines that in terms of their
11:17:34 approach are not that dissimilar from what the BLC
11:17:39 has.
11:17:39 That's where I think you get the rub.
11:17:42 >>MARY MULHERN: They're not dissimilar?
11:17:45 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: In terms of scope, what they
11:17:47 require are very different.
11:17:48 >>MARY MULHERN: They are?
11:17:49 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: For instance, they both regulate
11:17:52 landscape.
11:17:52 They both regulate window materials.
11:17:55 Both regulate railings, those types of things.
11:17:57 But what they say about them is different.

11:18:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:18:00 I think that I'll just need to look at that.
11:18:04 It's obviously, there's 18 things that conflict.
11:18:07 I'd like to see what those things are.
11:18:09 But I mean, I kind of feel like that's-if we are in
11:18:12 the middle of this, that should be our legal
11:18:14 responsibility to mediate and come to -- specific
11:18:20 agreement.
11:18:22 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Part of what they raised was --
11:18:25 well, they raise that there's direct conflict between
11:18:28 the codes.
11:18:29 In my view, the conflict is more between how they're
11:18:34 applied potentially by the two boards.
11:18:37 I think there's ways to reconcile them on their face.
11:18:40 But for instance, there's a standard at the state
11:18:42 level that talks about the life cycle cost of
11:18:44 maintaining the building.
11:18:45 And there's a standard at the local level about the
11:18:48 materials on the exterior face of the building being
11:18:52 historic.
11:18:53 Well, you can reconcile those depending on the types
11:18:56 of materials you use.

11:18:57 But, HCC will point to situations where certain types
11:19:02 of brick were required that create a problem there.
11:19:05 So I think these are things we can work through,
11:19:07 definitely.
11:19:08 But, are they things -- that's why we kind of went
11:19:12 with this concept of negotiating at the staff level so
11:19:16 we could go item by item and work through these
11:19:19 issues.
11:19:20 I believe personally, that there is not a direct
11:19:23 conflict between the two codes.
11:19:24 But it was brought home fairly clearly that HCC
11:19:28 believes there are.
11:19:29 And it is, way I would look at that is as applied
11:19:33 basis by the two boards they're dealing with.
11:19:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, it sounds like we, you know, the
11:19:40 city has decided not to mediate this.
11:19:43 And to -- I mean I guess, interlocal agreement.
11:19:49 But you know, I don't understand why we can't make
11:19:52 some determinations of what we want in our historic
11:19:58 districts.
11:19:59 And you know, write the code and figure out how to
11:20:02 resolve these.

11:20:03 So that, I mean -- this is what I don't understand
11:20:07 from the Ybor community.
11:20:09 Why -- I know Linda said she got a call from the Cuban
11:20:12 club.
11:20:13 Okay, this looks like very much like all the other
11:20:17 buildings in the, on the campus there.
11:20:22 And it's pretty typical.
11:20:24 For education buildings, because they don't have much
11:20:28 money.
11:20:29 And, I don't understand why suddenly we have this
11:20:33 building -- what's the history of this?
11:20:35 All the other buildings went up.
11:20:38 Does every time the HCC builds a building in Ybor,
11:20:43 after it starts going up, it comes to the city for a
11:20:48 decision about what their design guidelines are?
11:20:51 I don't understand.
11:20:56 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I wasn't here when that was
11:20:58 understanding.
11:20:58 My understanding this is a conflict every time one of
11:21:01 these buildings goes up.
11:21:02 As you heard from Mr. Manteiga, there was one 10 years
11:21:06 ago at issue.

11:21:07 There's a couple of signs that I have been told about
11:21:11 periodically.
11:21:12 So this is not a new or unique conflict that we are
11:21:16 dealing with here, is my understanding.
11:21:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I think that the, we should work
11:21:21 to resolve this.
11:21:23 Not just for HCC, but for our historic districts and
11:21:26 maybe we have to do them one by one.
11:21:28 But for Ybor, I mean, it just -- it seems like, you
11:21:33 know, we don't have standards, or we haven't decided
11:21:37 what they are.
11:21:38 So basically, there are no teeth.
11:21:41 And you know, we have these constant discussions and
11:21:45 hand wringing and crying about what's going on.
11:21:50 We are either going to say it's a historic district or
11:21:53 not.
11:21:53 And we are going to protect that or not.
11:21:55 I just find it unbelievable that we can't, you know,
11:22:01 make that -- make that determination.
11:22:04 And I also feel like I don't, I don't fault HCC for
11:22:08 building this.
11:22:09 There's nothing, you know, obviously they can build

11:22:12 whatever they want.
11:22:13 And we are not going to make any requirements and we
11:22:15 are going to, you know, and we are not going to go to
11:22:18 mediation.
11:22:19 That's my other question.
11:22:21 Why don't we just go to mediation on this?
11:22:24 I also don't understand why the state legislature
11:22:28 could help with this.
11:22:29 I mean, I think they would be the last people I would
11:22:32 ask to resolve this.
11:22:34 I'd rather go to a judge or a mediator.
11:22:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just say to council, it is now
11:22:40 11:25.
11:22:41 We have 35 minutes before our lunch break and we have
11:22:43 about 15 more items we have to deal with.
11:22:46 I guess underlining question for me today is what is
11:22:51 our role as council in this process?
11:22:54 That's the question.
11:22:55 Second thing I would add is, you at an impasse.
11:22:58 Let's face it.
11:22:59 You have all the standards you want, but as long as
11:23:02 HCC says we are not governed by your standards, you

11:23:06 got to go to another party to get an opinion.
11:23:08 So let's just face that.
11:23:09 So what is our role from a legal entity?
11:23:12 What is our role as council?
11:23:16 Here today?
11:23:17 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: What I would recommend is, if we
11:23:20 go through an interlocal agreement process, which in
11:23:24 my view would give us an opportunity to mediate
11:23:27 structure by structure.
11:23:28 That's at least my view how this is going to be set
11:23:31 up.
11:23:31 That would ultimately come to you for review and
11:23:34 approval.
11:23:34 So that would be council's role there.
11:23:38 We have not engaged HCC on this concept of setting up
11:23:41 different ordinance stands.
11:23:43 And certainly that's worth discussing.
11:23:45 But quite frankly, I would want some assurance from
11:23:48 them, either in an agreement or otherwise that they
11:23:51 would abide by them and not challenge them.
11:23:53 So, we would want to make sure that that, would
11:23:56 essentially get to the same place in terms of process,

11:23:59 I think as interlocal agreement.
11:24:01 But, we have -- we haven't engaged them.
11:24:05 I don't know if they would be willing to entertain
11:24:07 that or not.
11:24:08 Even if we would do that, we would be in the same
11:24:10 posture of having to go into litigation if they didn't
11:24:14 accept that as a valid basis for regulation.
11:24:16 So, we will take the comments and go back and continue
11:24:21 to work with HCC and bring you back a product at some
11:24:26 point.
11:24:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:24:29 I'm not sure you addressed my question.
11:24:32 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I'm sorry, sir.
11:24:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My question today what is our role in
11:24:39 terms of council, with this issue before us?
11:24:41 Clearly you have an issue of a structure that's
11:24:43 already out of the ground.
11:24:45 Is that right?
11:24:46 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: That's my understanding.
11:24:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Screwed around for three months.
11:24:52 Sorry.
11:24:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's a structure that's already up.

11:24:55 Then you're saying if we go to mediation, that's 90
11:24:57 days.
11:24:58 That's three months.
11:24:59 Building will be completed.
11:25:00 What is the intent and then what is our role here
11:25:03 today?
11:25:04 That's what I'm trying to get down to the bottom line.
11:25:08 Going to be here all day in circles talking about
11:25:12 stronger ordinance.
11:25:13 If HCC believes they don't have to go through the BLC,
11:25:17 we are still not going to get anywhere.
11:25:19 Put all the teeth you want.
11:25:21 But they believe that, it's going to come down to a
11:25:23 legal challenge.
11:25:24 So my question today again, where do we go from here?
11:25:28 What is our role as a legal body?
11:25:32 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: As opposed to your options, I
11:25:34 could lay out various options.
11:25:38 One would be if you're dissatisfied with this process,
11:25:42 would be to make a recommendation to the mayor to take
11:25:44 a different course.
11:25:46 The other one would be potentially to, resolution to

11:25:54 seek a legislative change that would resolve this
11:25:57 issue.
11:26:00 Or the third one would be to direct us to come back
11:26:02 with some type of an agreement like I had described.
11:26:05 This is really the three main options here.
11:26:10 That I'm aware at this point.
11:26:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: As I understand you though pretty
11:26:13 much, there's really only one option we have.
11:26:17 Legislature.
11:26:19 Other two are through the administration, is that
11:26:21 accurate?
11:26:22 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I believe so.
11:26:23 Those are the three that come to mind.
11:26:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
11:26:30 Then Dingfelder.
11:26:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:26:32 Okay.
11:26:32 I think we all recognize at this point, which is three
11:26:35 months after this issue is originally raised, it's too
11:26:37 late to address substantively the form of this
11:26:40 building.
11:26:41 So what's really at stake is the next potential

11:26:44 500,000 square feet of construction.
11:26:47 I want this city to stand up for its national landmark
11:26:52 district.
11:26:52 I think that the way to do that is through going to
11:26:56 the attorney general for clarification on the future
11:27:04 what HCC needs to do is go through the Barrio.
11:27:10 If we are not successful in that, we rewrite our
11:27:14 ordinance.
11:27:14 But I don't think that's appropriate.
11:27:15 I think they need to follow the same rules as everyone
11:27:19 else.
11:27:20 It's the question of who blinks first.
11:27:22 HCC hasn't blinked.
11:27:25 They have put structures not in character with the
11:27:30 Ybor City.
11:27:31 And put at risk our huge investment and stake in this
11:27:34 national landmark district.
11:27:35 I have to say it is very inappropriate for Barrio
11:27:38 members to be working -- anyway, that's another story.
11:27:42 I think that it's really critical that we as a city
11:27:46 stand up for the character and the investment made in
11:27:49 our national landmark district.

11:27:51 And we need to be bold.
11:27:52 And while we can't tell the administration what to do,
11:27:57 council can send a strong message, for the future, for
11:28:00 the next 500,000 square feet of potential structure,
11:28:03 the Barrio needs to weigh-in on the design.
11:28:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman.
11:28:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: With all due respect to my
11:28:14 colleague Mrs. Saul-Sena, I think what Mr. Fletcher
11:28:17 has said, either directly or between the lines, if we
11:28:20 ask for an AG opinion, you have to be careful for what
11:28:23 you ask for.
11:28:24 Because as he said, where there's three good opinions,
11:28:27 there's one not so good opinion.
11:28:29 You don't know where it's going to go.
11:28:31 And if it didn't go the right way, then we are sort of
11:28:35 in a worse off position than we are right now.
11:28:37 So, I think we have to be very cautious.
11:28:42 You know, going that route.
11:28:44 And I imagine prior city attorneys probably looked at
11:28:47 it same way and that's why there's never been a
11:28:50 request for an attorney general opinion.
11:28:52 That's just my speculation.

11:28:53 I also don't think going the legislature is realistic
11:28:59 because you see -- we know what goes on in
11:29:02 Tallahassee.
11:29:03 The various community colleges lobby together and have
11:29:07 great strength.
11:29:08 You know, we would just be one little historic
11:29:11 district going up there.
11:29:13 I don't think that would work either.
11:29:14 So, what I would suggest is, right now, they're moving
11:29:19 forward with the mayor on this interlocal agreement.
11:29:22 But I'm going to suggest perhaps a parallel track.
11:29:25 At least in terms of directing Mr. Fletcher and his
11:29:28 staff to look at it.
11:29:29 That's a suggestion I made earlier.
11:29:31 Is to direct legal staff to look at the feasibility or
11:29:36 possibility of creating a special section of the
11:29:39 Barrio that specifically related to HCC.
11:29:42 I don't know that we have to get their concurrence in
11:29:45 adopting that ordinance.
11:29:47 We don't usually do that.
11:29:48 We usually just do our own thing and we accept their
11:29:51 input.

11:29:52 But we don't have to get their concurrence, if you
11:29:54 feel it's legally sound to do it.
11:29:56 So, my motion would be, is very simple.
11:29:59 It is not to -- it is not going a certain direction.
11:30:01 It's not drafting the code.
11:30:03 It's not making any changes.
11:30:05 It's just directing legal to explore that as a
11:30:08 possibility that we would create a separate section of
11:30:10 the Barrio specifically related to HCC.
11:30:13 That would bring them under the Barrio's jurisdiction,
11:30:17 expressly bring them under the barrio's jurisdiction
11:30:20 but it would also expressly carve out the state
11:30:24 statute concerns that Dr. Stephanson so wisely brought
11:30:27 to us.
11:30:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just make a statement, then
11:30:31 councilmember Miranda.
11:30:34 The only question about that motion is --
11:30:38 >> Second.
11:30:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Only question about that motion is, it
11:30:41 is my understanding for HCC that they have never gone
11:30:44 through the BLC.
11:30:46 So you still creating something where that has to

11:30:49 happen.
11:30:49 Will they abide by that still?
11:30:51 See, that's the question.
11:30:52 You can create that.
11:30:53 So, how do you resolve the issue?
11:30:57 Are they willing to come and agree to that?
11:30:59 I don't know.
11:31:00 Here again, you can create anything you want.
11:31:02 We can pass an ordinance today, if they hold the
11:31:05 opinion that they do not have to abide by the BLC.
11:31:09 And therein lies the problem.
11:31:16 >> Can I respond real quickly?
11:31:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'll give you ten seconds.
11:31:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I meant To say it.
11:31:25 What it does, it turns up the heat a little bit on the
11:31:28 future building that Linda is talking about.
11:31:30 Because if our code specifically calls them out and
11:31:32 if, probably would be the next president or whatever,
11:31:37 that president's going to have to make probably a more
11:31:42 express decision and say golly, that code talks about
11:31:46 us, but I'm still going to ignore it.
11:31:49 Then some future council and some future mayor would

11:31:53 have to decide what are they going to do about it.
11:31:56 But if we make it more express in our code, it might
11:31:59 turn up the heat a little bit.
11:32:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This reminds me of two individuals
11:32:04 that have never been married that have no kids and are
11:32:08 planning a divorce.
11:32:09 Who's going to end up with the assets?
11:32:11 You know, if what I hear is all factual, we can write
11:32:16 off the ordinances and if HCC in their wisdom says
11:32:19 guess what, fine, the ordinance is fine, but we don't
11:32:22 belong there, we are exempt, where are we at?
11:32:25 So, what we need is from the legal department to find
11:32:29 out what legal authority we have or do not have to
11:32:36 facilitate the situation that we have.
11:32:38 I don't think I or anyone else, including HCC, would
11:32:41 like to continue this practice going on.
11:32:43 They have done some buildings that they remodeled they
11:32:48 bought, where I had my first job when I was 12 years
11:32:52 old working for Patrick's grandfather.
11:32:54 And, I got paid every week.
11:32:58 So what I'm saying is that, it has to be some form of
11:33:04 system.

11:33:06 What we are doing now is going hunting with no guns.
11:33:10 Not solving anything.
11:33:13 We have talked for 35 or 40 minutes, and we have come
11:33:15 to no conclusion.
11:33:17 Everyone said something right.
11:33:19 I agree with that.
11:33:20 But at the end of the day, what have we accomplished?
11:33:24 Or the individuals here from the concerned citizens
11:33:26 group coming out and saying they did something?
11:33:28 No.
11:33:29 Has HCC said we have solved our problem?
11:33:32 No.
11:33:33 So the answer is, we can write all the ordinances we
11:33:35 want.
11:33:36 If they feel they're still exempt, it's still going to
11:33:39 end up somewhere.
11:33:40 So where's that somewhere?
11:33:41 That's what I'm asking, sir.
11:33:45 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: In that instance, we'd be
11:33:47 basically the same position we are right now, where we
11:33:49 are claiming they're subject to regulation by the BLC
11:33:52 and they're saying they are not.

11:33:54 That was when this came up earlier, I mentioned that
11:33:57 we would want them, if we were to go this route, sign
11:34:03 off on their agreement to follow those requirements,
11:34:06 whether ordinance or through interlocal agreement, I
11:34:09 think we are basically talking about a similar
11:34:11 process.
11:34:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is there any process the city and
11:34:14 HCC can get together on a commitment to go to
11:34:18 somewhere, the legislature or the attorney general and
11:34:21 get an opinion from them or from a mediator to set
11:34:24 this record finally once and for all?
11:34:27 >> We could, and we were discussing at one point
11:34:31 jointly seeking an attorney general opinion on this
11:34:34 issue.
11:34:34 That was part of the discussion.
11:34:37 And instead, instead of doing that and both sides
11:34:42 risking not having a favorable decision, it was agreed
11:34:47 to go through this process where both of us could
11:34:49 attempt to reserve our desired interest, which if the
11:34:53 city was to have some historic design standards and
11:34:57 HCC to have their process to go to the department of
11:35:01 education.

11:35:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't think there's any winners
11:35:05 or losers here.
11:35:07 If you go to the attorney general, you get an
11:35:10 unfavorable decision.
11:35:11 You still could negotiate with HCC.
11:35:14 I would imagine they're going to do something to take
11:35:16 the public outcry top of their backs off.
11:35:20 I mean, I can't speak for HCC, but I would imagine,
11:35:23 that is a highly-thought-of educational process.
11:35:27 They're not naive to public pressure.
11:35:29 So, I'm just thinking that somewhere along the line,
11:35:34 you have to come up with some solution to get
11:35:37 someone -- we can talk all we want.
11:35:39 Write all the ordinances we want, and if they're
11:35:42 exempt, they're exempt.
11:35:43 Then another policy can be written in conjunction with
11:35:45 that.
11:35:46 I don't know what the answer is.
11:35:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Miller.
11:35:50 >>GWEN MILLER: In your statement at the beginning, you
11:35:52 said that the city and HCC was working on ideals of
11:35:55 how we are going to solve this problem?

11:35:59 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Essentially, we've been -- not
11:36:01 with the mediator, but we have been having a series of
11:36:04 meetings, both design staff at HCC and the historic
11:36:07 preservation staffer at the city.
11:36:09 And the mayor and Mrs. Stephanson met and we have had
11:36:13 a series of meetings we have gone through and that's
11:36:16 how we ended up at this compromise idea of having an
11:36:19 agreement to establish a process that would hopefully
11:36:23 protect both sides' interest to the degree possible.
11:36:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you feel like the two of you are
11:36:31 still working this out together?
11:36:32 You can come to some conclusion and where they should
11:36:35 go with the Barrio and how things should be allocated
11:36:38 to them and so forth?
11:36:40 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes, that's correct.
11:36:41 And that would be interlocal agreement we would bring
11:36:44 back to you all for approval if we continue to go
11:36:47 forward in that process.
11:36:48 >>GWEN MILLER: If that's the case, then why are we
11:36:52 here today?
11:36:52 Why continue -- can't we let you continue to work it
11:36:55 out and come back and tell us what you're going to

11:36:58 come up with?
11:36:59 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: That would be an acceptable path
11:37:01 forward.
11:37:03 >>GWEN MILLER: I'd like to make a motion that we let
11:37:06 HCC and the city staff continue to work together and
11:37:09 come up with interlocal agreement how we can handle
11:37:12 this problem.
11:37:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, before we move forward on either
11:37:15 motion.
11:37:16 And I don't know if we can do it just yet.
11:37:19 The question come back though, I think I heard
11:37:21 Mr. Manteiga say that the interlocal agreement
11:37:25 excludes I guess the BLC.
11:37:28 That's the whole issue.
11:37:29 And exclude -- it only refers to staff.
11:37:32 So that's the big issue here.
11:37:36 So you're back to square one.
11:37:38 So they are not amenable to the current interlocal
11:37:42 agreement, as I understand it, that has been worked
11:37:45 out now by the administration and HCC.
11:37:48 So the underlying issue is, BLC involvement.
11:37:59 >> Could we ask for Mark Bentley's opinion?

11:38:01 He spoke earlier.
11:38:02 He's a smart cookie --
11:38:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, wait a minute.
11:38:06 Wait a minute.
11:38:07 Council, I think you have to understand that we have
11:38:13 counsel to represent City Council.
11:38:15 All respect to Mr. Bentley, he does not represent the
11:38:18 city of Tampa.
11:38:19 You have a city attorney who represents this city, who
11:38:22 must give this council legal advice.
11:38:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Then I won't ask him.
11:38:30 I'll just say when he and I were discussing the cases,
11:38:34 he felt that they were very strong.
11:38:36 And I believe that in an attempt to make nice with
11:38:40 HCC, the city sort of back, is backpedaling.
11:38:45 And I'm suggesting that it's council's role as a
11:38:49 creator of land use decisions to, to be strong.
11:38:55 To say, we will not capitulate and not take our BLC
11:39:01 board out of the mix.
11:39:02 That if we want good decisions to protect Ybor City,
11:39:05 the BLC needs to be front and center.
11:39:08 And that's why I'm going to support John's ordinance.

11:39:12 And I call for the question.
11:39:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a question on that.
11:39:17 Mr. fletcher, when you were working with HCC, isn't
11:39:20 that part of the question going to come up, should
11:39:22 they go -- aren't you going to check with the attorney
11:39:24 general, whoever you need to check with to make sure
11:39:27 if they have to go before the Barrio?
11:39:35 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Two issues there.
11:39:36 One was going to the attorney general's office first
11:39:40 for an opinion.
11:39:41 At this point we decided not to go that route, to
11:39:43 reach a compromise.
11:39:45 We have, we have not had extensive discussion on the
11:39:50 role of the BLC.
11:39:51 But I do believe the consensus of discussion so far
11:39:54 would be the review would be by staff, not by the BLC.
11:39:58 That's correct.
11:39:58 I am obviously hearing a desire to have a different
11:40:01 process from you all.
11:40:02 From the council.
11:40:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, it is 20 minutes to 12.
11:40:05 We will be here all day.

11:40:07 >> Can I clarify my motion?
11:40:15 >> Mr. Fletcher, what is your opinion?
11:40:16 Should we continue the dialogue with the school and
11:40:19 the commission?
11:40:21 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes.
11:40:21 That would be my recommendation that we move forward
11:40:24 and continue discussions.
11:40:26 Ultimately any agreement will have to come back to you
11:40:29 all and I think we have gotten some clear direction
11:40:31 from council as to desires of what should be in any
11:40:34 agreement that would come back or in an ordinance that
11:40:37 would effectuate a similar type of compromise between
11:40:41 the state standards and the local design guidelines.
11:40:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess the question though still begs
11:40:49 to differ, Mr. Manteiga, that group in Ybor City, in
11:40:54 this whole process of mediation, I guess that's the
11:40:57 issue, have they been a part of that discussion?
11:41:01 Is this strictly been administration of HCC, because
11:41:05 again once you do that, you still -- you going to
11:41:08 still have the same issue.
11:41:09 You understand what I'm saying?
11:41:11 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes.

11:41:12 And we have had meetings with Mr. Bentley and HCC and
11:41:15 the city.
11:41:16 But we have also been meeting separately.
11:41:19 So we have had some of those discussions.
11:41:20 But the negotiation on the interlocal agreement has
11:41:23 been primarily directly between HCC and the city.
11:41:28 So I'm hearing that you would like us to include
11:41:32 Mr. Bentley and his clients as well.
11:41:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, if it is going to bring some
11:41:39 resolve, I think that would be appropriate.
11:41:41 Got to have all parties at the table, in my opinion.
11:41:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, you either win or
11:41:50 lose, but at the end of the day, whether both parties
11:41:51 like it or not, only thing that's going to settle this
11:41:55 thing is the attorney general's opinion.
11:41:57 If there's conflict in an ordinance and you can't work
11:42:00 it out, and two parties are not centered on, at the
11:42:01 end, we have done that before.
11:42:04 Not on one occasion, but on several occasions.
11:42:07 And that opinion then is the, the one that we hold
11:42:13 water to.
11:42:13 Whether we're right or whether we're wrong, we don't

11:42:16 know.
11:42:16 I don't think HCC knows if they're right or wrong.
11:42:19 They're going by what's in the statute.
11:42:22 May be the vagueness of that statute is what this
11:42:25 controversy is going on.
11:42:27 You know, in today's building standards, things are
11:42:32 done a lot differently.
11:42:33 Things are a lot stronger.
11:42:36 Lasting a lot longer.
11:42:39 Looking a little different and a lot of other things I
11:42:44 have seen.
11:42:45 But it's -- without that attorney general's opinion
11:42:48 no, matter what you work out, no one's going to be
11:42:50 happy.
11:42:51 And at least 50% of something is going to be unhappy.
11:42:56 And the other 50% are going to be preserved.
11:43:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me clarify my motion on the
11:43:07 floor and already been seconded.
11:43:08 And really, it's not to take Mr. Fletcher and his team
11:43:13 and staff and the mayor off of the course they're
11:43:15 going.
11:43:16 Let them go down this course.

11:43:19 Let them continue discussion with HCC.
11:43:21 Let them work on the interlocal agreement.
11:43:23 What I'm trying to do is give them an additional arrow
11:43:26 in the quill.
11:43:27 -- quiver?
11:43:29 Whatever.
11:43:29 I always mess those up.
11:43:30 Anyway, just give them some additional ammunition in
11:43:34 terms of something, another possible tool to work
11:43:36 with.
11:43:37 Okay?
11:43:38 That's my motion, if it's possible that we might --
11:43:41 that we might be in a better position, okay, if we
11:43:45 tweak our ordinance, all right?
11:43:47 Down the road, yes, Charlie, it's going to take an
11:43:50 attorney general opinion.
11:43:51 But with an ordinance that expressly identifies HCC
11:43:54 and carves out all these state issues, we might be in
11:43:57 a better position to be asking for that attorney
11:44:00 general opinion.
11:44:00 But right now our code is vague.
11:44:02 State statute is vague.

11:44:04 If we ask for attorney general opinion, I'm not real
11:44:07 comfortable with the answer we might get.
11:44:09 What I'm trying to say, is give Chip the opportunity
11:44:12 to explore this.
11:44:14 There's no harm in that.
11:44:15 If he comes back and he says it's my opinion this
11:44:18 interlocal agreement is the way to go.
11:44:20 Thanks for your idea, Mr. Dingfelder, wasn't a good
11:44:23 one.
11:44:23 Fine, we will move forward.
11:44:25 So it's pretty simple.
11:44:26 That's my motion.
11:44:28 >> Second.
11:44:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:44:29 Let me raise the question to HCC and to Mr. Manteiga
11:44:35 or representative.
11:44:36 Are you all amenable to the motion on the floor?
11:44:38 Or you rather just have the attorney general opinion?
11:44:46 >> I believe that we feel there needs to be some
11:44:49 resolution here as quickly as possible.
11:44:50 Once we find out whether city ordinance stands or
11:44:55 doesn't stand in reference to HCC, in regards to BLC,

11:44:59 then we can move forward with either legislation or we
11:45:02 can move forward with some interlocal agreement or
11:45:04 anything else.
11:45:05 But I don't know why anybody wants to be at the table
11:45:08 today until we know what we are defining here.
11:45:11 What John Dingfelder is asking, I don't think would
11:45:14 cause a problem to the process.
11:45:16 And I think eventually it might actually be a way
11:45:19 you're going to have to deal with this, even if the
11:45:24 AGL says the city of Tampa BLC is responsible and HCC
11:45:28 does have to answer to them, I think you're still
11:45:31 probably going to have to deal with conflicting codes
11:45:34 they might have up in Tallahassee.
11:45:36 So, we just want an answer here.
11:45:38 We want the city to stand by its guns.
11:45:41 We really think that you guys -- we are coming to you
11:45:44 as a board of appeal.
11:45:45 We are not happy with the process.
11:45:47 We do not believe in interlocal agreement that leaves
11:45:49 out the BLC.
11:45:51 And we believe that is what it's going to do because
11:45:54 HCC has made it clear they do not want to be bothered

11:45:58 in going in front of the BLC.
11:46:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's hear from HCC on this.
11:46:03 Then we have a motion on the floor, so we have to vote
11:46:06 on that.
11:46:10 >> Gina Grimes with hill ward and Henderson, 101 east
11:46:15 Kennedy Boulevard.
11:46:16 For the record, Mr. Saul-Sena, I'm no longer on the
11:46:19 BLC.
11:46:20 Last week you passed a resolution appointing my
11:46:22 replacement.
11:46:23 My term was up last September.
11:46:25 But for some reason, you all didn't act on it until
11:46:29 eight months later.
11:46:31 >> We appreciate your service.
11:46:32 >> Thank you.
11:46:33 Representing HCC on this matter.
11:46:35 We have advised them as far as their legal position on
11:46:40 the exemption from the local codes.
11:46:43 We have also examined Ms. Mulhern, we have examined
11:46:49 the specific conflicts between the state building code
11:46:51 and the BLC's design regulations.
11:46:55 And there are many.

11:46:56 And that is why we had suggested that the most
11:47:00 reasonable solution to this problem is an interlocal
11:47:04 agreement because of the complexity in the
11:47:07 distinctions and conflicts between the building code
11:47:09 for schools versus the BLC design regulations.
11:47:12 Just like you were saying, it is not simple and it is
11:47:16 not easy.
11:47:17 And the only way to deal with it in our opinion is to
11:47:19 deal with it in an agreement.
11:47:21 I don't believe, Mr. Dingfelder, you're going to be
11:47:23 able to write a code.
11:47:25 I have written many, many codes here.
11:47:27 I don't think you're going to be able to write a code
11:47:29 that addresses all the details that need to be
11:47:31 addressed in this situation.
11:47:32 And that's why we propose the interlocal agreement.
11:47:35 That we could go into that level of detail regarding
11:47:38 submission of plans, review by the BLC staff,
11:47:42 evaluation of the conflicts between the state code for
11:47:47 building schools versus the BLC design regulations.
11:47:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we can move here, ten minutes to 12
11:47:54 and we have 15 more items.

11:47:56 Then you oppose to the code, so only solution I see is
11:48:00 the attorney general opinion.
11:48:02 That's what I'm hearing from both sides.
11:48:03 >> GINA GRIMES: we think the interlocal agreement
11:48:05 would adequately address it.
11:48:07 As far as the attorney general's opinion is concerned,
11:48:09 about whether or not we are exempt from the BLC's
11:48:12 design review, we would not submit to the attorney
11:48:16 general for that opinion.
11:48:17 We would not agree to that.
11:48:19 First of all, the attorney general probably will not
11:48:21 issue an opinion on that subject because they're not
11:48:23 going to interpret local code.
11:48:26 They only interpret state statutes.
11:48:29 They will not get into evaluating a local code.
11:48:32 You're not going to be able to answer this question
11:48:34 without evaluating the BLC's design guidelines.
11:48:37 The only other way to do it, and I don't know why
11:48:39 you'd want to go down this path.
11:48:41 Only other way to do it would be to file for a
11:48:44 petition for declaratory relief in the circuit court.
11:48:48 That's going to involve a lot of preparation.

11:48:50 A lot of work.
11:48:52 It's going to involve a trial.
11:48:53 It's going to involve a lot more I think than what you
11:48:57 have anticipated.
11:48:58 That again, that's why we thought the interlocal
11:49:00 agreement, the compromise from both sides.
11:49:03 You know, the classic agreement, both sides
11:49:05 compromise.
11:49:06 They come to terms.
11:49:08 Once you have that interlocal with HCC and the city,
11:49:12 there won't be disputes because we have an agreement.
11:49:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, thank you.
11:49:16 Mr. fletcher?
11:49:17 One more time.
11:49:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Now you heard Ms. Grimes has said only
11:49:24 way to go is seek out declaratory judgment.
11:49:27 Is that your opinion as well?
11:49:30 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I think she and I might differ a
11:49:32 little bit on whether or not we could seek an attorney
11:49:34 general opinion on this issue.
11:49:36 But the other option would be a declaratory judgment
11:49:40 action.

11:49:41 That would be the approach to have a state judge
11:49:45 review this issue and give us a decision on it.
11:49:47 >> JOHN DINGFELDER: which we can't do without the
11:49:50 mayor.
11:49:52 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Correct.
11:49:53 And we would have to go through the mandatory
11:49:55 mediation process under chapter 164 first.
11:49:59 If we were to be the plaintiff.
11:50:01 If another PARTY were to be the plaintiff, we wouldn't
11:50:04 have to go.
11:50:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion on the floor made by
11:50:06 councilman Dingfelder to enhance the code that will
11:50:10 write HCC into that code and making them have to go
11:50:15 through BLC.
11:50:17 We have heard the opinion of our COUNSEL, we have
11:50:22 heard the opinion of HCC.
11:50:24 They do not believe that any code we write would be
11:50:27 viable, that they would be subjected to based on the
11:50:32 state's, state law, state opinion.
11:50:35 So, moved and second.
11:50:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll speak to that again.
11:50:41 I'm not opposed to it.

11:50:43 Sounds great.
11:50:43 But IT'S not going to work.
11:50:44 I can see right now the parties are not, not amicable
11:50:48 to raising right hand and saying I do.
11:50:50 In fact, they're raising the left hand and saying I
11:50:52 don't.
11:50:53 So, what is here is a never-ending thing.
11:50:58 We have to try things either from the top down, go to
11:51:01 the circuit court or put out the first step, first
11:51:05 baby step to making that agreement between the city
11:51:08 and HCC, even though the Barrio may not be involved,
11:51:11 they can certainly have input when we get that.
11:51:14 And have the process worked that way.
11:51:16 Whether it's the best way or not, I don't know.
11:51:19 I'm just saying that that's what I think should
11:51:22 happen.
11:51:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I agree. personally I think it should
11:51:25 go to attorney general opinion.
11:51:27 But the motion's on the floor.
11:51:29 And as long as HCC holds the opinion that they are not
11:51:32 subject to this code, they're not going to bother.
11:51:35 YOU'RE right back up to square one.

11:51:38 All in favor of the motion signify by saying aye.
11:51:41 Opposes?
11:51:43 >>THE CLERK: The motion failed with Miranda, Scott,
11:51:47 Miller, Caetano and Mulhern voting no.
11:51:55 >>GWEN MILLER: I'd like to put a motion on the FLOOR
11:51:57 that the city staff, HCC and all the other parties,
11:52:00 Mr. Bentley, whoever represents them, Manteiga,
11:52:04 whoever it is, let them go to the table.
11:52:07 What they think they need to do -- what they call it?
11:52:11 Interlocal agreement, how they think we should work it
11:52:14 out and let them all go together and sit at the table
11:52:17 and let's do that.
11:52:18 >> Linda Saul-sena: clarification on the motion.
11:52:20 Does that include a discussion of HCC going before the
11:52:24 BLC?
11:52:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Whatever interlocal agreement they come
11:52:28 up with.
11:52:28 I want all parties to meet together and let them
11:52:31 decide how they're going to do it.
11:52:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Was that a yes?
11:52:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think the interlocal agreement
11:52:37 already, they are working on, includes that they work

11:52:40 out those guidelines, where they will have to go and
11:52:43 get input from staff, but not BLC.
11:52:46 That's my understanding.
11:52:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Just have the other parties sit at the
11:52:50 table with them while they're discussing it.
11:52:52 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes, that's the current
11:52:54 discussion.
11:52:54 Nothing has been reduced to writing.
11:52:56 And a lot of details we have to work through.
11:52:58 But that's the current discussion.
11:53:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:53:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I agree with that.
11:53:05 I think HCC should use this video in their political
11:53:09 science class.
11:53:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, sir, Mr. Bentley.
11:53:12 >> Thank you very much.
11:53:13 The one lingering issue is the student center.
11:53:16 Which is coming out of the ground at this point in
11:53:19 time.
11:53:19 How are we supposed to deal with that?
11:53:23 Direct them to go informally to the Barrio and see if
11:53:27 there's some changes that could be made at this point

11:53:29 in time?
11:53:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Is the building already almost
11:53:33 completed?
11:53:35 >> Alan can tell you.
11:53:37 He owns the property across the street.
11:53:39 Alan, what is it?
11:53:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, that's okay.
11:53:45 >> There's some substantial changes that can be done
11:53:47 at the south elevation that would save them money.
11:53:51 Very expensive glass curtain wall, $600,000
11:53:54 invested --
11:53:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, thank you, sir.
11:53:58 Thank you.
11:53:59 Thank you.
11:53:59 That is not the issue.
11:54:01 The issue before us is what is our role here as
11:54:05 council?
11:54:06 And, and no matter what you do, they're saying that
11:54:12 they're not subject to our code.
11:54:16 So again I refer back to our counsel.
11:54:18 >> They certainly could voluntarily come in and
11:54:21 present information to the BLC that would be an

11:54:26 option.
11:54:27 They did attend one earlier BLC meeting but for
11:54:30 reasons I'm not clear on, they were not heard by the
11:54:33 BLC.
11:54:34 But at this point, I would view their, contrary --
11:54:39 since we are in a dispute here, I think at this point
11:54:42 it would be voluntary at their point.
11:54:44 And you could certainly request them to do that.
11:54:46 That would be their choice whether or not to honor
11:54:50 that request.
11:54:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, there's a motion on the floor.
11:54:52 All in favor of the motion, all parties coming
11:54:54 together to try to come up with interlocal agreement,
11:54:57 all in favor signify by saying aye.
11:54:59 Opposes?
11:55:00 Okay, now.
11:55:01 I too believe the only resolution --
11:55:05 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern voting no.
11:55:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The only resolution to this problem is
11:55:09 going to be attorney general opinion.
11:55:11 That is my belief.
11:55:12 I think that is the only resolution.

11:55:16 I'm just telling you, based on what I have seen here
11:55:19 today.
11:55:19 We have spent an hour on this issue.
11:55:21 That the only resolution going to be is an attorney
11:55:26 general opinion.
11:55:32 >> Okay, let's move on.
11:55:35 >>THE CLERK: On the previous motion, Saul-Sena was
11:55:37 absent at vote.
11:55:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So Mr. Fletcher, you understand what
11:55:40 the motion that passed, and that is to involve all
11:55:45 parties to try to come up with interlocal agreement
11:55:47 and then report back to council?
11:55:49 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes, sir.
11:55:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
11:55:53 >> It's about four minutes to 12.
11:55:55 Both Mr. Bentley and Mr. Mechanik are present to
11:55:58 discuss an issue on item 87.
11:56:00 It is not officially to be called up till 1:30.
11:56:03 But as a courtesy to the public that might be
11:56:05 appearing, they wish to raise an issue that would
11:56:08 avoid people coming down to city hall unnecessarily.
11:56:13 Gentlemen.

11:56:13 >> DAVID MECHANIK: we will be very brief.
11:56:17 We are here on item 87.
11:56:19 Mr. Bentley representing the retreat bar.
11:56:21 And I Dave Mechanik representing university of Tampa,
11:56:27 both jointly asking for a continuance of the hearing
11:56:29 to resolve a procedural issue.
11:56:34 We are aware there are a number of people who may be
11:56:36 coming this afternoon.
11:56:38 And we were hoping while council can't formally vote
11:56:41 until 1:30, we were hoping council could give an
11:56:46 indication of your willingness to continue the
11:56:47 hearing.
11:56:48 And so we could tell people not to come this
11:56:51 afternoon.
11:56:51 And we have discussed the matter with Mr. Shelby in
11:56:56 the legal department.
11:56:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I also think we should put a sign
11:56:59 on the door in case anyone comes, they don't have to
11:57:02 wait an hour and a half.
11:57:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We can get the clerk to do that.
11:57:09 That will be good.
11:57:10 Yes, sir, Mr. Bentley?

11:57:12 >> I was just going to say, we are also both of us
11:57:15 have coordinated calendars.
11:57:17 We are agreeable to any date after March 26th.
11:57:23 >> Mark Bentley.
11:57:24 For the record, I concur with Mr. Mechanik.
11:57:26 I want to get on record, I still object to propriety
11:57:31 of these proceedings.
11:57:32 I just had to get that on the record.
11:57:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:57:35 At least you're consistent.
11:57:36 [ Laughter ]
11:57:37 >> THOMAS SCOTT: I spent hours on that case.
11:57:42 Boy, I tell you.
11:57:43 Okay.
11:57:43 We will take that up at 1:30 then.
11:57:46 Let me take up item 81 real quick because it only
11:57:51 requires vote from council.
11:57:54 Item 81, we need a full council on that item.
11:57:57 We need a full council on item 81.
11:57:59 While they are coming in, let's take up the next staff
11:58:02 item real quick.
11:58:04 Item 73.

11:58:19 >>JAN McLEAN: Jan McLean, office of city attorney to
11:58:22 give you a brief update on the Angelos aggregate
11:58:23 proposed landfill for southeastern Pasco County.
11:58:27 Florida department of environmental protection denied
11:58:30 the applications as you saw, I sent an e-mail giving
11:58:35 you an update on that.
11:58:37 At this point in time, there has been three
11:58:39 administrative petitions filed.
11:58:41 One by the applicant, two by interested parties.
11:58:43 No judge has been assigned.
11:58:45 No hearing date set.
11:58:47 Initial order has to be issued by the judge in a
11:58:49 certain amount of time.
11:58:50 I expect that to be done in about ten days.
11:58:52 I would recommend if you wanted to continue to have
11:58:54 the updates on this particular, that I come back
11:58:56 within 60 days, or at such time that you feel
11:59:00 necessary.
11:59:03 >> So moved.
11:59:04 >> And if I could take one more minute.
11:59:06 On progress energy on the proposed transmission lines,
11:59:09 I attended the hearing, the certification hearing which

11:59:15 is completed for testimony of the witnesses and
11:59:17 provision of the exhibits.
11:59:18 The reason I wanted to ask your indulgence, there's
11:59:22 going to be an opportunity in our area for public
11:59:24 testimony next Tuesday, March 10th, from 3:00 to
11:59:27 8:00 p.m. in Hillsborough County, in our area.
11:59:30 At the Bethany center.
11:59:32 So anybody that wants that information, they could
11:59:35 contact me, but it's also on the progress energy web
11:59:39 site.
11:59:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Are we leaving at noon?
11:59:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm going to try to get through one or
11:59:46 two more items.
11:59:47 About five after 12.
11:59:48 Is that okay?
11:59:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Why don't we have the department --
11:59:51 public works.
11:59:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I am going to try to get through with
11:59:54 that.
11:59:54 Motion on the floor.
11:59:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved to have her back.
11:59:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.

12:00:02 Opposed the same sign.
12:00:02 Okay, item 74.
12:00:05 Motion to receive and file, that is a memo from the
12:00:09 police department regarding Bethune high rise.
12:00:15 >> So moved.
12:00:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Been moved and second.
12:00:17 All in favor signify by saying aye.
12:00:19 Item 81, only requires a vote.
12:00:24 Am I right?
12:00:24 >>Which one?
12:00:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to go to item 81.
12:00:31 I need to get these people out of here.
12:00:34 >> Item 81, petitioner here on item 81?
12:00:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It was closed.
12:00:41 I reviewed the document, visited the site.
12:00:44 I'm prepared to vote.
12:00:46 Saul-Sena was out.
12:00:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I haven't.
12:00:50 Can I just abstain because I'm not up to speed?
12:00:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, you have to vote.
12:00:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Let me hear a persuasive argument.
12:01:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: They would have to present the whole

12:01:05 case again.
12:01:05 >> The Hookah Parlor?
12:01:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: One on Fowler avenue.
12:01:12 >> Pursuant to the council's rules it would be
12:01:15 continued to the next regular meeting.
12:01:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm really sorry.
12:01:19 Could I review it --
12:01:24 >> You probably can if you wish to recall it this
12:01:27 afternoon if there's no objection by the petitioner.
12:01:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
12:01:32 >> You have any objections to this being continued
12:01:35 until after 1:30?
12:01:37 >> No.
12:01:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to continue?
12:01:38 >> So moved.
12:01:39 >> Second.
12:01:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: all in favor signify by aye.
12:01:45 1:30 this afternoon.
12:01:47 Okay.
12:01:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Make a motion to pass the resolution --
12:01:58 number 80.
12:01:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Been moved and second on item 80 for

12:02:02 the resolution.
12:02:02 All in favor signify by saying aye.
12:02:07 Opposed same sign.
12:02:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: May I say something on 82?
12:02:13 When you look at the what the water department and the
12:02:16 efforts of Mr. Baird and Mr. Daignault,
12:02:20 They're really outstanding.
12:02:22 In 2000 and 2001 we set A FIVE TIER rate in the city.
12:02:27 AND THE highest water rate users pay three times more
12:02:30 than anyone else.
12:02:31 They pay $4.06 versus a dollar 35.
12:02:36 This council IN AN unprecedented move in August of '07
12:02:42 set a FIVE-year rate to increase the water rates and
12:02:46 fix primary the leaky pipeline that we had throughout
12:02:50 the city, which about 20% of it is 85 to 100 years
12:02:54 old.
12:02:55 And that saved -- and it will save 16% of the
12:02:58 consumptive water use of the city in total when it's
12:03:02 complete.
12:03:02 We have already lowered that 16% to something in the
12:03:05 12, 10 area.
12:03:07 I can also tell you that the water department has

12:03:10 lowered the pressure, and I'm not talking to take your
12:03:14 thunder.
12:03:14 But I know what you have done.
12:03:16 An outstanding job in reducing the operating pressure
12:03:19 by nine pounds per square inch, MEANING that if we go
12:03:23 to anything less than this, it will be not recommended
12:03:28 as public safety and the public health safety will be
12:03:32 not -- it would be irresponsible for us to continue to
12:03:35 do anything less than what we have done.
12:03:38 We have set our goals to the water department,
12:03:42 Mr. Baird, Mr. Daignault and others, THAT all of us,
12:03:47 council and the mayor included, THAT HAVE lowered our
12:03:50 consumptive DAILY use, from 130 something to 109.
12:03:54 Now we are under A hundred gallons a day per person in
12:03:57 the city.
12:03:58 A lot of the areas in Florida are still at 150 and
12:04:00 above.
12:04:01 Do we have a drought?
12:04:02 You darn tootin' we do.
12:04:04 But are we addressing the problems?
12:04:06 We certainly are.
12:04:07 I'll let Mr. Baird -- I'm sorry to take up some of

12:04:10 your time, sir.
12:04:12 >>BRAD BAIRD: Brad Baird, Tampa water department.
12:04:15 I have about A five to ten minute presentation.
12:04:18 Maybe I'll try to condense it into about two minutes.
12:04:21 Councilmember Miranda, if I can put this on the Elmo.
12:04:29 >> Let me clarify the motion That I made.
12:04:36 I want us to keep doing this on a biweekly basis,
12:04:41 every other week.
12:04:42 It is not about how good we are doing.
12:04:44 It's about how bad things are.
12:04:46 Okay?
12:04:47 And how we need to continue to do even better.
12:04:50 And because I think that's a message that we have to
12:04:54 repeat to this community every two weeks until we get
12:04:58 out of this drought.
12:04:59 And that was the original intent of the motion, so
12:05:04 carry on, Brad.
12:05:08 >>BRAD BAIRD: Thank you.
12:05:09 FIRST, if we could look back at the Elmo, this is a
12:05:13 picture of the entire state of Florida, with the
12:05:16 drought index, basically red is bad.
12:05:20 Green and blue are good.

12:05:21 As you can see, almost the entire peninsula is in red.
12:05:25 Including THE Hillsborough river basin.
12:05:28 I brought with me a couple of pictures of the
12:05:35 Hillsborough river.
12:05:36 This is one of a gauge that's out of the water.
12:05:41 It's hard to measure the water level if it's out of
12:05:43 the water.
12:05:44 The next one, this is near Fletcher avenue, where
12:05:49 there's a dock out of the water.
12:05:52 So that gives you An idea of what the river looks like
12:05:58 today.
12:06:00 As our demands increase and we don't have enough water
12:06:03 in the river, we buy water from Tampa Bay water.
12:06:06 You may have seen these pictures.
12:06:09 This is Tampa Bay water reservoir when it's full.
12:06:12 It holds 15 billion gallons.
12:06:15 When it's empty, or very low, that's what it looks
12:06:22 like today, it has 180,000 gallons of water out of
12:06:28 15 billion.
12:06:31 >> 180,000?
12:06:33 >> 180,000, which is about six days' worth of water
12:06:36 left.

12:06:37 They're projecting by March 11th, the reservoir will
12:06:41 be dry, empty.
12:06:42 That's mid next week.
12:06:43 And when that happens, we have to make up that water.
12:06:53 We are withdrawing 30 million gallons a day out of
12:06:55 that reservoir, THE regional reservoir.
12:06:58 We need to make that up with groundwater.
12:07:00 There is no other water.
12:07:01 To make that up with.
12:07:02 For Tampa, I send a report out every week that shows
12:07:10 how much Tampa service area uses.
12:07:13 82 million gallons a day for watering days.
12:07:16 71 million gallons a day for a non-watering day.
12:07:19 For a difference of 11 million gallons a day.
12:07:21 To meet these demands, we have several sources, and
12:07:26 I'll leave out the numbers today.
12:07:28 We have the river flow, which is, as said before,
12:07:32 extremely low.
12:07:34 Aquifer storage and recovery, where we store water
12:07:37 underground, Tampa bypass canal water, raw water that
12:07:41 we pump over that structure, sulphur springs that we
12:07:45 are tapping right now.

12:07:46 And finally Tampa Bay water finished water, that we
12:07:50 buy up in Morris bridge.
12:07:52 And all of those, if they total up to numbers that are
12:07:57 higher than our demand, we're good.
12:08:00 Otherwise, we have to take it out of the reservoir,
12:08:02 Our reservoir, to make up the difference.
12:08:05 So that's -- the strategy for the reservoir, and maybe
12:08:14 I'll skip a few of the other things.
12:08:17 The strategy is to keep our reservoir as high as
12:08:23 possible Going into the dry season.
12:08:25 And that will give us 100 days of ten million gallons
12:08:31 a day to be able to make up that difference when our
12:08:34 supplies are lower than our demand.
12:08:38 So, what we are trying to do -- what we have here is
12:08:43 the red line, IT'S THE 2000 drought.
12:08:47 The black line is the 2001 drought.
12:08:49 The last time we were in this very similar situation,
12:08:52 is shown in the red and black lines.
12:08:54 What we tried to do is keep our -- the current one,
12:09:00 I'm sorry, this year is the purple X's.
12:09:05 We try to keep that above that slope so that we have
12:09:08 enough water to make it through the dry season.

12:09:11 To make up that difference.
12:09:12 So that's our job.
12:09:13 The water department's job to keep those purple X's
12:09:17 above that blue line.
12:09:18 As you can see, you know, both of those years, we had
12:09:24 TROUBLE.
12:09:25 In 2001, we had great drop in may, very steep that was
12:09:30 more than that slope.
12:09:31 And then in 2000, we started out worse than we are
12:09:36 now.
12:09:36 And I'd like to end with my last picture.
12:09:46 There's one that we sent out yesterday with the
12:09:49 report.
12:09:51 And I wanted to make A point that when we say we are
12:09:56 two and a half feet low, or we are two feet low in the
12:09:59 reservoir, it doesn't mean a lot To people.
12:10:03 But, especially when you consider that we have seven
12:10:08 feet of storage.
12:10:09 But we are shaped like a cup, The reservoir is.
12:10:12 So the top two and a half feet of the reservoir hold
12:10:16 half the volume.
12:10:17 The top two and a half feet hold half the volume.

12:10:20 So, as you can see, yesterday, we were at 20.4 feet
12:10:27 elevation, which is down over two feet.
12:10:30 We are almost -- we have almost used up half the
12:10:33 volume in the reservoir.
12:10:34 So we are starting the dry season already in the
12:10:37 deficit.
12:10:38 Which is why I lose sleep sometimes.
12:10:44 So, you know, therefore, it is just extremely
12:10:48 important for citizens to conserve water in any way
12:10:51 you can.
12:10:51 Check toilets for leaks, take shorter showers.
12:10:55 Turn off your irrigation system if it's raining.
12:10:58 We have 100, over 100 more tips on our web site.
12:11:02 I'd like to put this up so people can write this down
12:11:09 or go to it.
12:11:10 And there's a lot of ideas on that web site to get you
12:11:14 started.
12:11:15 Every little bit helps.
12:11:17 We need everybody to help.
12:11:20 Challenge everyone out there to take our 7-day
12:11:23 drinking water challenge to see how well you're doing.
12:11:25 That's on the web site.

12:11:27 It tells you how to do that.
12:11:29 By all means, if you're in the reclaimed water area,
12:11:32 now is a time to hook up if you're not already hooked
12:11:36 up.
12:11:36 Please contact the water department at the number
12:11:39 that's on the screen.
12:11:40 With that, I'll take any questions.
12:11:44 >>john Dingfelder: Thank you, Brad.
12:11:45 Like I say, we can't repeat these messages enough.
12:11:48 And we have -- the community has to hear them.
12:11:51 And I'm sorry that TV cameras from the stations aren't
12:11:55 here on this issue.
12:11:57 Because there's no issue more important.
12:11:59 They come down for the silliest issues, but they're
12:12:02 not here on this issue.
12:12:03 Maybe we can get that word out.
12:12:05 Brad, my question is this.
12:12:08 It drove me crazy when SWFWMD had the meeting a WEEK
12:12:13 or so ago and THEY said WELL, WE'RE going to encourage
12:12:15 Restaurants not to bring water OUT to your table when
12:12:19 you come.

12:12:20 That's just silly.
12:12:21 A cup of water, yeah, we should do everything we can.
12:12:26 But this isn't what the problem is.
12:12:28 Okay?
12:12:28 How much -- what percentage of our city's water goes
12:12:32 on to lawns?
12:12:35 >> WELL, you know, I gave you the numbers earlier,
12:12:38 82 million gallons a day ON WATERING DAY.
12:12:40 And 71 on a non-watering day.
12:12:42 If you do that math, it's only 13%.
12:12:45 However, that doesn't include outdoor use that's
12:12:50 already accounted for in that non-watering day.
12:12:53 There may be some of that going on that is not
12:12:57 captured.
12:12:58 But I would say in the city, it's probably less than
12:13:01 20%.
12:13:02 Now you have heard numbers of 40 to 50%.
12:13:05 You know, those are numbers I think based on years
12:13:08 ago, when people watered two and three times a week.
12:13:12 Now we are watering once a week for reduced hours.
12:13:19 >> But let me put it this way.
12:13:21 If I said, Brad, I can give you 20% more water than

12:13:24 YOU GOT today, Wouldn't that help those lawns?
12:13:26 >> IT would help TREMENDOUSLY.
12:13:27 >> OF COURSE IT WOULD. and the other thing is, people
12:13:30 need to take shorter showers.
12:13:31 What do I use water for in my household?
12:13:34 I don't have children at home anymore.
12:13:36 I drink a little bit of water.
12:13:37 But you know, I take a shower.
12:13:39 I use a lot of water, I brush my teeth.
12:13:42 I use a fair amount of water.
12:13:44 I don't have any yard to water anymore.
12:13:46 It's all dead.
12:13:47 So that doesn't use any water.
12:13:49 But I have got some flowers out front that we hose a
12:13:52 little bit on watering days.
12:13:54 So, you know, people need to think that.
12:13:56 They need to take a personal inventory of what they
12:14:01 do.
12:14:01 Turn the water off when they brush their teeth and
12:14:04 take shorter showers and quit watering their yards so
12:14:07 much.
12:14:08 When the thing is starting to look brown, and you got

12:14:11 to put some water on it.
12:14:13 But other than that, get control of your automatic
12:14:16 sprinkler system.
12:14:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, I want us to break for lunch
12:14:20 here.
12:14:23 We don't need to take any action on this, right?
12:14:26 >> No, just a report.
12:14:27 >> Charlie Miranda: what was said earlier, the time
12:14:31 changes, I believe Saturday, so sprinklers got to be
12:14:33 PUT an hour in advance so that you don't get a
12:14:37 citation and the citations can start at $100 to $450.
12:14:42 And we -- I have been reading the water report now
12:14:46 every Thursday, since I got elected.
12:14:49 And it's getting to the point where people are
12:14:52 starting to realize that that pressure may not be as
12:14:55 high as we think in the next month or so.
12:14:58 So, please conserve water.
12:15:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Take up item 77, then we are going to
12:15:04 lunch.
12:15:04 >> THANK YOU, chair.
12:15:09 CATHERINE Coyle, land definitely.
12:15:10 I'm here speaking for the legal department on this

12:15:13 particular issue.
12:15:13 WHAT i did, I took the liberty of compiling a synopsis
12:15:18 of chapter 2, 3 and 4 from the comp plan.
12:15:21 This motion looks like it may have been a lingering
12:15:25 motion from last year.
12:15:25 This motion basically stated you wanted the legal
12:15:28 department to work with us to look at putting some
12:15:32 stronger policies in the Tampa comprehensive plan
12:15:34 dealing with historic development patterns, including
12:15:37 neighborhood centers.
12:15:38 This is about an eight page synopsis of kind of the
12:15:41 flow breaking down from neighborhood stability, going
12:15:43 into the city forum.
12:15:45 And I underline and highlighted some important
12:15:47 policies and narrative for you to consider.
12:15:49 I also put in the chapter 4 criteria for the community
12:15:52 planning efforts, like we are doing in Seminole
12:15:54 Heights.
12:15:58 Within the next couple months.
12:15:59 Then moving on to the next areas that come on line.
12:16:01 So this effort is under way.
12:16:03 >> Linda saul-sena: thank you.

12:16:05 The intent behind this is not only to get it in our
12:16:09 comp plan but to have it ultimately integrated into
12:16:13 our land use codes.
12:16:13 >> And that's what we are doing.
12:16:15 >> Thank you.
12:16:16 >> You're welcome.
12:16:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 76 and 78 we can just receive and
12:16:21 file.
12:16:22 >> Move it.
12:16:23 >> Second.
12:16:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moving item 76 and 78 to receive and
12:16:26 file --
12:16:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Wait a minute.
12:16:29 We will bring it back later.
12:16:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 76 and 78 are the ones we moved.
12:16:32 We are not dealing with 75 YET.
12:16:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But 78 is something I really care
12:16:36 about.
12:16:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 76 only.
12:16:40 Moved and second, all in favor signify by saying aye.
12:16:45 OPPOSES?
12:16:45 We stand in recess until about 1:30.

12:16:51 (Recess)

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Thursday, March 5, 2009
1:30 p.m. session

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13:23:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We will come to order.
13:37:10 Roll call.
13:37:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's review the items that are
13:37:19 remaining.
13:37:20 Mr. Shelby, you want to review that with us, please?
13:37:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, council, from this morning's
13:37:26 agenda, you have items number 70, 71, 75, 78.
13:37:37 79.
13:37:40 81, and 83 remaining from this morning's agenda.
13:37:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to do, is the first item I
13:37:56 want to take is -- let's dispose of the 81 rye tem.

13:38:03 Number 81, then deal with the request for the
13:38:08 continuance and then move back to the staff items.
13:38:11 Item 81.
13:38:14 >> Move.
13:38:15 >> Second.
13:38:18 >> Rather than open the public hearing, to refresh
13:38:20 your recollection --
13:38:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's closed.
13:38:22 >> On the agenda for a full council action pursuant to
13:38:25 rule 4 C of the council's rules and procedure, public
13:38:28 hearing is closed.
13:38:32 The motion was made by councilmembers Dingfelder,
13:38:37 seconded by councilmember Mulhern this the ordinance
13:38:41 be placed on first reading.
13:38:42 It was read on first reading.
13:38:45 The motion was not adopted with councilmember Scott
13:38:49 and City Council member Saul-Sena being absent.
13:38:53 Count members cat know voted no.
13:38:58 The public hearing is closed.
13:38:59 >> I have a question.
13:39:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We still don't have a full board.
13:39:04 >> I will wait until we have one.

13:39:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I just realized the other two members
13:39:07 are not here yet.
13:39:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Come back to item 7.
13:39:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's put -- Mr. Bentley, we have a
13:39:13 continuance, you and Mr.
13:39:23 >> Ansel lick with mechanic, representing the
13:39:28 university of Tampa.
13:39:29 >> My understanding, Mr. McAnd Pollack are available
13:39:32 from the 27th -- 26th on.
13:39:37 >> Council, just for the record, this being the public
13:39:40 hearing, I believe what you have is you have, set for
13:39:46 an appeals hearing.
13:39:47 My understanding is there's going to be an application
13:39:49 for couldn'tance, is that correct?
13:39:51 >> That's correct.
13:39:52 >> Can we have the public hearing opened then.
13:39:54 >> So moved.
13:39:56 >> Second.
13:39:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
13:40:01 >> This is council 85, file number E 2009 chapter 8.
13:40:06 Chapter 17.5 appale hearing on the university of
13:40:10 Tampa.

13:40:11 Case number VRB zero 8 dash 58 regarding property at
13:40:17 123 south Hyde Park avenue.
13:40:18 Council, what is your application?
13:40:25 >> We would like to request a continuance to any date
13:40:29 after I guess March 26th.
13:40:32 I'm not quite sure what the calendar is, but just to
13:40:35 resolve some issues.
13:40:38 >> Is that the request of both counsel or one counsel
13:40:43 with concurrence of the other?
13:40:45 >> It was my understanding that your firm was
13:40:49 available from the 26th on, is that correct?
13:40:52 >> Yes.
13:40:52 >> From the 26th on then.
13:40:54 >> An for the purposes of clarity --
13:40:56 >> I'll support the continuance.
13:40:58 >> Then if I understand correctly, it's the request of
13:41:03 Mr. Mechanik, Ms. Pollack, is that correct, with the
13:41:06 concurrence of Mr. Bentley and his client.
13:41:09 >> That's correct.
13:41:09 >> Thank you.
13:41:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: April 16th, at 9:30, is that a good
13:41:13 time or do you want to keep it in the afternoon at

13:41:16 1:30?
13:41:17 >> Probably better course of action is put it last in
13:41:19 the agenda in an afternoon.
13:41:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 1:30 on the 16th?
13:41:26 That's a regular board meeting.
13:41:28 April 16th?
13:41:30 At 1:30, last item on the agenda?
13:41:33 >> That's great, Mr. Chairman.
13:41:35 Thank you.
13:41:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Both you all concur with that?
13:41:38 >> Yes.
13:41:38 >> So moved.
13:41:39 >> Second.
13:41:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second by Councilwoman
13:41:42 Saul-Sena, second by councilwoman Mulhern we continue
13:41:48 to April 16 at 1:30.
13:41:50 All signify by saying aye.
13:41:53 >> Thank you very much.
13:41:55 >> Is it possible to hear the continuance on item 86
13:41:58 now before you move forward as well?
13:42:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, let's do that.
13:42:06 >> So moved.

13:42:07 >> Second.
13:42:08 >> All in favor signify by saying aye.
13:42:11 Opposes?
13:42:12 >> An Pollack with representing the Italian Club
13:42:17 cemetery.
13:42:18 We'd like extra time to deal with some of the comments
13:42:21 we have gotten from utilities.
13:42:22 So we are requesting April 16th.
13:42:24 >> So moved.
13:42:24 >> Second.
13:42:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
13:42:27 council on this continuance?
13:42:28 Anyone from the public?
13:42:30 >> I need the time.
13:42:32 >> 1:30.
13:42:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
13:42:34 All in favor signify by saying aye.
13:42:38 Opposes?
13:42:39 >> Thank you very much.
13:42:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What I'd like do is go back to the
13:42:44 staff reports and get those out of the way if we can.
13:42:47 Take up item 75.

13:43:02 >> Is Mr. Fletcher here?
13:43:03 I was wondering if you think that the -- it seems to
13:43:15 me that if somebody owes the city money, because they
13:43:18 aren't doing what they should do in terms of living up
13:43:21 to the city codes, that we shouldn't do business with
13:43:23 them.
13:43:24 I feel like that's not smart of us to spend taxpayer
13:43:27 public money on someone who's not being a good
13:43:29 citizen.
13:43:30 And therefore, I ask the legal department to see if
13:43:34 they could research so we could tailor something to
13:43:38 disqualify people from receiving city contracts if
13:43:40 they're not in good standing with the city.
13:43:42 >> And basically what we found was that as a blanket
13:43:46 policy, we can't do that.
13:43:47 There has been a case on that, where in the third
13:43:51 district court of appeals in South Florida, that was
13:43:54 found to be overly broad and vague in that case so
13:44:00 what we can do, we have discussed, evaluate whether
13:44:03 there's certain areas of interest we could focus on.
13:44:07 And try to evaluate whether in certain areas, that
13:44:10 would be possible.

13:44:11 But certainly as blanket measure, that's already found
13:44:14 to be invalid.
13:44:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, could you then go and see if
13:44:18 you could tailor something more narrowly perhaps, and
13:44:21 bring that back in 90 days?
13:44:25 120 days?
13:44:26 What are you thinking?
13:44:27 >> 90 days would probably be appropriate.
13:44:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That would take us to March, April,
13:44:33 May -- staff report to appear in the first meeting in
13:44:39 June, which would be June 4th.
13:44:46 >> And what we have found is that it needs to be
13:44:49 something related to the business activity that you're
13:44:51 hiring them for.
13:44:52 That seems to be fairly clear under the federal case
13:44:55 law, but within that area, we can craft something,
13:44:58 evaluate whether we can craft something for you.
13:45:01 >> Thank you very much.
13:45:03 >> Do you need that as a motion?
13:45:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My motion is legal will appear back
13:45:07 before council June 4th, under staff reports with the
13:45:10 response to creating a more narrowly crafted way of

13:45:14 disallowing people who are in code violation with the
13:45:17 city to be recipients of city contracts.
13:45:20 >> Thank you.
13:45:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
13:45:27 >> The motion has been second.
13:45:29 Can I ask a question?
13:45:30 What if there's an appeal on that?
13:45:32 Does that disqualify that person?
13:45:35 >> There are a couple standards, that whatever we were
13:45:37 to do, you'd have to make.
13:45:39 The first, there has to be a clear adjudication there
13:45:42 has been something, a violation that exists.
13:45:44 And you would not be able to take any action on anyone
13:45:48 based on something that has not reached final
13:45:51 resolution.
13:45:51 So certainly the appeals would have to be finalized.
13:45:56 Were this comes up primarily is in areas of public
13:46:02 corruption, public entity crimes.
13:46:04 We have that in our ordinances now.
13:46:07 At the federal level, it's things related to your job
13:46:11 practice.
13:46:14 Drug free workplace, those types of things.

13:46:16 All that case law, has to be a final decision on those
13:46:20 areas before any penalty can be imposed.
13:46:23 So clearly that would have to occur first.
13:46:25 This issue of trying to pull in other areas that are
13:46:31 less directly related to the business activity is more
13:46:35 challenging.
13:46:35 And clearly there can't be a blanket prohibition.
13:46:39 I don't know yet if there can be something more
13:46:42 narrowly tailored, broader than the individual
13:46:44 project.
13:46:45 But, less broad as a blanket prohibition on someone
13:46:50 with a code violation.
13:46:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern?
13:46:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, so, the ^ city wants to --
13:47:04 doesn't want to give business to someone that they
13:47:07 don't like.
13:47:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Not that they don't like.
13:47:13 Somebody in code violation.
13:47:15 >>MARY MULHERN: My question, how is that a penalty?
13:47:18 I mean -- in every case, if we are hiring a contractor
13:47:25 to do something, is it a bid process?
13:47:28 >> Competitive bid process.

13:47:30 That's required by our charter.
13:47:33 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, just a thought.
13:47:35 But it might be a good idea to write that bid process
13:47:39 so that you would get someone who is qualified.
13:47:43 And would trust.
13:47:48 In good standing.
13:47:49 I can't even he believe you have to pass a motion.
13:47:52 You have to write into code.
13:48:03 >> We have to have objective, clear criteria.
13:48:05 We can't just decide that certain entities are --
13:48:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The government can't discriminate.
13:48:11 So got to have -- there's a motion on the floor.
13:48:18 Been moved and second.
13:48:20 All in favor signify by saying aye.
13:48:23 Anyone in opposition?
13:48:36 [ MOTION CARRIED ]
13:48:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ihe tem 75.
13:48:40 Take up item 78.
13:48:53 >> Council, I believed you received a report from
13:48:57 Irvin Lee director of the apartment of public works
13:49:00 regarding this matter.
13:49:01 >> Received and filed.

13:49:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: She is says she wants to have
13:49:05 something to say.
13:49:06 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
13:49:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I really want to actually have him
13:49:11 discuss this.
13:49:12 So I'd like to put it on our agenda for two weeks from
13:49:15 now under staff report for him to discuss what's been
13:49:18 filed.
13:49:19 Unless you can discuss it.
13:49:25 >> Public works and utilities services. Be glad to
13:49:28 try to discuss it further with you ^.
13:49:30 Saul you have given us good information about what
13:49:46 other people have done.
13:49:47 Have you seriously considered doing this?
13:49:51 What I'm trying to get to, we in the city had gotten
13:49:54 to the point of actually doing a test case on seventh
13:49:57 avenue and then discovered there was no brick
13:49:59 underneath the asphalt.
13:50:01 Which was really disappointing because this was going
13:50:03 to be our big test case.
13:50:04 That was about four years ago and nothing has happened
13:50:07 subsequently.

13:50:07 So I'm trying to circle back and say could we do a
13:50:10 test case to find out what the real numbers are?
13:50:13 >> We are not going out and soliciting through the
13:50:16 neighborhoods to see if anyone is interested in doing
13:50:18 that.
13:50:19 If there's a neighborhood interested in trying to do
13:50:21 that, we would be glad to pursue with them.
13:50:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I will work with you to help
13:50:26 identify -- we have been through this big planning
13:50:29 process and that's how we got to seventh avenue, which
13:50:32 turned out not to be appropriate.
13:50:34 But we decided it needed to be a commercial street in
13:50:37 a district that was CRA area, because you could use
13:50:39 the money on that.
13:50:41 We have gone through this whole very expensive
13:50:43 process, might have even been, you know, just as you
13:50:46 were getting here.
13:50:47 What I'll do is go back over that and see if we can
13:50:50 come up with a Canada indicate project of or block or
13:50:53 so, so if we can see if our numbers are comparable to
13:50:56 the Orlando numbers and see if this would be possible
13:50:58 to think about in the future.

13:51:00 >> This involved an assessment, was part of the
13:51:03 process.
13:51:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmen Miranda?
13:51:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank, you chair.
13:51:10 It's a costly assessment.
13:51:12 The memo not only had Orlando, Winter Park, I believe.
13:51:15 And I think it ran between somewhere in the 45-dollar
13:51:19 a yard, square yard, to $66 a square yard, if I
13:51:24 remember the memo.
13:51:25 And it also explained the costs and it was like a
13:51:28 two-thirds to whoever wanted it done.
13:51:32 Property owner, whoever it was.
13:51:34 So these are the things that have to be considered at
13:51:36 the time that these things were discussed.
13:51:38 I don't know -- I mean if they're doing it in Orlando
13:51:42 and doing it in Winter Park, we have an accurate -- it
13:51:45 doesn't cost any more or any less to run in Tampa,
13:51:49 Florida than it does in Orlando.
13:51:51 It's the same principle I'm trying to apply, if it's
13:51:55 44 to 65, maybe we are at 55:00 I don't know.
13:51:58 But somewhere in there to clean off by heat the
13:52:00 asphalt off the bricks and then refurbish beneficiary

13:52:04 the bricks and make sure you lay them down right.
13:52:07 You cannot have certain limestone under the rock, if I
13:52:09 remember reading the memo and on an on.
13:52:13 Got to be sand.
13:52:14 >> Correct.
13:52:14 The cost pretty much clear.
13:52:16 The only question would be on an assess is.
13:52:20 Whether you have two houses on a block or 20 houses on
13:52:22 a block.
13:52:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand.
13:52:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The way they have done, majority of
13:52:27 the homeowners have to agree, because they have to pay
13:52:29 in to make it happen.
13:52:31 Mr. Miranda, there was such a huge demand, there was
13:52:34 like a really long waiting list because it made their
13:52:37 houses so much more marketable and attractive, they
13:52:40 felt it increased the value so greatly, people
13:52:42 advertised being on a brick street.
13:52:44 Anyway, I will work with you and see if we can
13:52:46 identify perhaps some opportunity to try this in
13:52:49 Tampa.
13:52:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 9.

13:52:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Martin Shelby, City Council attorney
13:53:02 regarding item 79.
13:53:04 I have had opportunity to speak to Mr. Ron Rotella and
13:53:07 Christopher Weber.
13:53:09 Opportunity to speak to city attorney, Chip Fletcher.
13:53:12 Members of council, what you received this week is the
13:53:16 draft for the Westshore area pedestrian plan.
13:53:21 Council, I have been informed that there will be minor
13:53:25 modifications or modifications to some degree.
13:53:28 It will be brought back to you as a final, and at
13:53:32 which time, at such time, council will be asked to
13:53:35 take the appropriate action as necessary at that time.
13:53:38 That is my understanding and that's my report.
13:53:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
13:53:45 Any question?
13:53:49 No questions?
13:53:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So Will be coming back to us and we
13:53:52 can take an action at the?
13:53:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Exactly.
13:53:55 What that action, it depends on the steps that have to
13:53:57 be taken.
13:53:57 At this point in time I cannot delineate what those

13:54:00 steps are.
13:54:02 >> I'd like to request the legal department take a
13:54:04 look at the proposed pedestrian plan and come back
13:54:06 with specific recommendations to council.
13:54:09 If they're going to tweak it a little bit, it is not
13:54:12 going to change the stance.
13:54:13 Come back to us with how we begin to adopt and
13:54:17 implement.
13:54:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The question, did you all get a copy
13:54:20 of this?
13:54:23 >> I have seen six presentations on it.
13:54:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That was delivered this week.
13:54:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is it.
13:54:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.
13:54:29 But at this point, council, in the absence of the
13:54:34 action by the Westshore alliance, it may impact the
13:54:37 DRI as well.
13:54:38 There are other legal issues that need to be addressed
13:54:41 by both the city, legal department, the administration
13:54:44 and the Westshore alliance.
13:54:46 Before you can take any action.
13:54:48 Based on recommendations that come before you.

13:54:54 >> What I would recommend, I think that the, from what
13:54:56 I have understood, is the Westshore alliance is intent
13:54:59 to have this presented to you, allow them to make a
13:55:01 presentation to you.
13:55:02 Then legally where you are, is at that point in time
13:55:05 you would need to send that to staff to the
13:55:09 administration, and the legal department to determine
13:55:12 what if anything would be appropriate to be a part of
13:55:15 our land development code, what may obligate an
13:55:18 amendment to the DRI, etcetera.
13:55:19 But I think where my understanding was is the
13:55:22 Westshore alliance wanted to be able to formally
13:55:24 present to you in order to have the conversations with
13:55:26 you as to what is within the context of the report.
13:55:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have seen three members of the
13:55:36 presentation on this, as a mope policy committee and
13:55:38 member of the mope.
13:55:39 So I felt like we had seen it here since I had seen it
13:55:43 in so many other places.
13:55:44 We know this is coming, we know you know this is come.
13:55:48 Inch stead of waiting until we get it and then start
13:55:50 to think about it, if you could think about it in

13:55:53 advance so when they schedule it, you could tell us
13:55:55 what the next steps would be, that would be helpful.
13:55:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: We have already met with Westshore
13:56:00 alliance.
13:56:01 We are already moving in that direction.
13:56:04 There are already elements in our code because much of
13:56:07 this plan is an update.
13:56:09 So we are going in that direction.
13:56:10 >> Thank you.
13:56:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 83.
13:56:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Move the resolution.
13:56:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Wait a minute.
13:56:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 83 is something we don't really
13:56:29 need right now.
13:56:30 In this economy, I think we should put it off and
13:56:32 re-bid it.
13:56:33 If you'd like me to be more specific about it, I can
13:56:36 be.
13:56:37 I had a conversation with Mr. Slater about this, and
13:56:39 it is not a critical need and I'd like to re-bid this
13:56:47 award.
13:56:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm going to ask the legal

13:56:50 department to come forward, please.
13:56:51 I'm not privy to any inside information of what's
13:56:54 going on.
13:56:55 This is the second time I believe this item has been
13:56:57 held.
13:57:02 Do we have a contract with this person?
13:57:04 Do we have any legal ramifications of the city not
13:57:09 doing something in good faith that it signed to do?
13:57:13 I don't know this individual.
13:57:14 I know who they are, I think.
13:57:18 I know what happened in the past, I believe.
13:57:21 But, I can't hold one foot to the fire and the other
13:57:25 one in slippery slopes.
13:57:29 >> If I may, our recommendation at this point would be
13:57:31 to approve this contract.
13:57:33 It's already been through the process with the
13:57:35 administration.
13:57:36 They're recommending approval.
13:57:37 To change the rules of the game this late is really
13:57:42 not appropriate.
13:57:43 If we need to get into changing procurement process,
13:57:49 in the future, I think we can discuss that.

13:57:52 But to change the rules on this particular one after
13:57:55 it's already moved through the process, already been
13:57:57 rehe viewed by the administration, that recommendation
13:57:59 has already been made, I don't think that that would
13:58:02 be appropriate at this time and could have legal
13:58:04 ramifications.
13:58:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I may, Mr. Chairman, again, let
13:58:08 me say I haven't spoke to nor attorney about this, not
13:58:12 the mayor and no one in the city administration.
13:58:14 I just sense when there's a little smoke, there's
13:58:17 going to be a big fire coming.
13:58:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council Caetano,.
13:58:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Sometime ago, I brought this up
13:58:25 to Mr. Spearman when we were renewing a contract for
13:58:29 something else.
13:58:30 It was a rollover contract.
13:58:31 I brought up the fact that we are in tough economic
13:58:34 conditions.
13:58:35 And if this 132,000, you can probably get it for maybe
13:58:41 $105,000.
13:58:42 Everybody is looking for work.
13:58:43 There are builders out there ^ now sitting on their

13:58:47 butts doing nothing.
13:58:49 Believe me.
13:58:50 They're out there, they're doing all kinds of things
13:58:52 to make work.
13:58:53 And, but Mr. Spearman says they were going to put it
13:58:57 out on a renewal, as it is ^.
13:59:00 I don't agree with that.
13:59:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern?
13:59:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question.
13:59:06 We have to approve this to sign a contract, right?
13:59:09 There's no contract?
13:59:11 This is the contract?
13:59:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: This is a renewal.
13:59:14 Yes, you need to approve it to go forward.
13:59:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I can't support it.
13:59:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena?
13:59:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
13:59:27 Mick, perhaps our legal department can explain the
13:59:32 conone dream-drum we are in.
13:59:35 -- conundrum.
13:59:38 He wasn't specific and I need to be specific.
13:59:41 >> If I can.

13:59:41 Council, there is, with all due respect there is no
13:59:46 conundrum.
13:59:47 What you have befores is the request by the
13:59:49 administration pursuant to a contract that exists that
13:59:52 allows for an automatic renewal.
13:59:54 Subject to council's approval.
13:59:56 Regardless of who it is, in this case, council has the
14:00:01 option to either approve it, or to disapprove it.
14:00:07 And if it disapproves it, then obviously the
14:00:09 administration would have to take whatever steps it
14:00:11 takes.
14:00:11 However, council, the basis for your approval
14:00:15 cannot -- it has to be related to this contract and
14:00:19 not something outside this contract.
14:00:21 This bidder is, has been determined by the
14:00:27 administration to be the lowest responsible bidder in
14:00:30 a previous bid and now you're back a year later, the
14:00:34 contract expires in may.
14:00:35 And the administration has recommended approval.
14:00:38 Whether council agrees with that or disagrees with
14:00:41 that, is for council's decision and only on that
14:00:45 basis.

14:00:45 And on no other basis.
14:00:50 >>MARY MULHERN: Supporting with Mr. Caetano is saying,
14:00:52 I think we will probably get a better bid, we'd save
14:00:56 money for our city if we re-bid it.
14:00:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Also come back in and higher too.
14:01:02 Other thing.
14:01:03 Bids go out, could come back in higher.
14:01:05 Listen, folks, let me say this we need to move on
14:01:08 here.
14:01:08 We are being disingenious here.
14:01:11 You know what it is about.
14:01:12 This is about Gary's school and the demolition.
14:01:15 You all know what it's about?
14:01:16 Okay?
14:01:17 Let's be straight.
14:01:18 I'll put it on the record.
14:01:19 -- put it on the.
14:01:22 Steve Daignault, just a recommendation for you so that
14:01:27 everyone is covered here.
14:01:30 This is not in my area.
14:01:32 But contractually, if you were to approve this
14:01:35 contract, it is an as-required contract.

14:01:38 So it is not that they're going to go out and build
14:01:42 something.
14:01:42 It will be on the shelf.
14:01:44 There will be no money spent unless the code
14:01:47 enforcement folks decide that something needs to be
14:01:50 demolished or removed.
14:01:52 Now, if you approve it, it sits on the shelf and then
14:01:57 you want to go back out and advertise?
14:02:00 It could be done, a new contract, looking at the low
14:02:04 bidder, could be brought back to council and if that's
14:02:07 the way you wanted to go, that could happen.
14:02:11 But at least the administration and the code
14:02:13 enforcement would be covered by a contract.
14:02:15 If you do not approve this, they have no mechanism to
14:02:20 do that.
14:02:20 And that's, again, that's just the specifics of this
14:02:24 contract.
14:02:24 That's the situation.
14:02:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder had his hand up.
14:02:31 Then councilwoman Mulherny.
14:02:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Coming in late on the discussion, I
14:02:35 have no idea what the ulterior motive is.

14:02:39 But I agree what I heard as I was walking in, right
14:02:43 now building construction is down.
14:02:45 And these folks are demolition people and demolition
14:02:48 inherently would be down if building construction is
14:02:50 down.
14:02:50 I think there's a very, very, very strong chance that
14:02:54 we could get a better price than we did 12 or 18
14:02:57 months ago when we bid this the first time.
14:02:59 I'm always looking at these renewals with that in
14:03:02 mind.
14:03:02 Sometimes I bring up the same exact issue on various
14:03:05 other contracts.
14:03:06 So, I think if -- only question I have is, is this
14:03:12 contract already expired?
14:03:15 Does anybody know?
14:03:16 >> This contract does not expire until may.
14:03:19 >> So there's already a grace period built in.
14:03:21 And these contracts can be, they can be revisited.
14:03:24 They can be put out on the street bid and awarded
14:03:28 within 60 days.
14:03:29 So this is good till may.
14:03:30 We have covered.

14:03:31 We don't have to renew it if Mr. Caetano's motion is
14:03:35 to not approve this, that will send it to the
14:03:38 administration to put on a new bid.
14:03:40 I can support ^ that.
14:03:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved by Councilwoman Miller to
14:03:47 approve it.
14:03:47 Mulhern and Caetano.
14:03:54 >>MARY MULHERN: I think you have given us another
14:03:56 reason not to approve this.
14:03:58 And there's not actually necessarily any work we need
14:04:01 to be done right now.
14:04:02 So, I mean I think we should have contracts for actual
14:04:05 work.
14:04:06 Not just to keep renewing contracts.
14:04:12 >> May I chime in on that?
14:04:16 I'll defer to Mr. Fletcher.
14:04:20 >> Do you hear things needed on a very quick basis.
14:04:23 We can't go and spend 60 days or more to have a
14:04:26 competitive bid process, which is what you have to do,
14:04:30 to hire somebody to do these.
14:04:31 Now, I don't ^ know if we can get them done by mayor
14:04:35 or not.

14:04:35 But we do need to have contracts in place so we can
14:04:38 have this work done on an as-needed basis.
14:04:41 We can't wait until something needs to be demolished.
14:04:45 Because typically it needs to be demolished because
14:04:49 there's a public health issue.
14:04:51 That's when we do that.
14:04:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council member Caetano?
14:04:57 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Are there things on the shelf now
14:04:59 we can spend this money on?
14:05:01 In other words, are things waiting to be torn down
14:05:03 right now?
14:05:04 >> That's not my area of purview.
14:05:06 I just needed to be clear there are occasions where we
14:05:09 do need to have contracts available for, to call on.
14:05:13 >> In the meantime, if this is disapproved today, we
14:05:16 can put it out to bid tomorrow?
14:05:18 >> As long as it takes to do that RFP process.
14:05:21 I don't see anyone from purchasing ^ to describe how
14:05:26 long.
14:05:27 >> Just a reminder, under the present contract, you
14:05:30 have an existing contract.
14:05:32 >> That's not expired.

14:05:33 >> Till may.
14:05:34 >> So we can still put it out to bid, even though we
14:05:36 do have a contract because you're going to be looking
14:05:39 for a new bid.
14:05:41 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
14:05:41 But if we have an emergency, something needs to be
14:05:44 demolished, we have to have a 60-day bid?
14:05:49 >> We still need to go through a competitive bid
14:05:52 process, unless it's something that by statute is
14:05:56 national disaster, I mean, there's a very limited
14:05:59 area -- we have looked at this recently where you can
14:06:02 go out and bid absent the competitive bid process.
14:06:06 >> So we have a contract?
14:06:07 >> Until may.
14:06:08 >> So if we turn this down, and then we bid it right
14:06:11 now, we are on -- they can put it out, re-bid it, and
14:06:16 we won't have any gap between this contract and the
14:06:19 next contract.
14:06:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If he has the local preference, he
14:06:26 gets 8% more.
14:06:28 >> If I may make a recommendation.
14:06:30 A lot of your questions are outside my area of

14:06:32 expertise.
14:06:33 Why don't we ask someone from purchasing to come and
14:06:35 answer those questions and you can take this up later
14:06:36 in the afternoon.
14:06:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Listen, that's ^ fine.
14:06:41 The read on this board, what I can see, I don't think
14:06:44 purchasing is going to do anything to sway them
14:06:47 differently.
14:06:48 I'm telling you where I'm coming from.
14:06:50 Well, speaking for me, I know it's on the line issue
14:06:55 is.
14:06:55 I'm trying to volt on the contract based on the face
14:06:58 value of the administration request, and based on a
14:07:00 charter, we only volt it up or down.
14:07:03 The administration may not choose to re-bid it.
14:07:06 They have that right to do that.
14:07:13 >> Request a motion.
14:07:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to approve the contract.
14:07:18 Second by -- Charlie, I know you made the motion.
14:07:21 Myrrh.
14:07:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There was not a motion then.
14:07:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I mover to deny.

14:07:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Spear plan is here.
14:07:32 >> Move we reject this bid.
14:07:34 >> Second.
14:07:35 >> And direct purchasing to put out a new bid.
14:07:37 >> I'd like to hear from Mr. Spearman.
14:07:40 >> If I can just clarify, Mr. Caetano, your motion
14:07:43 would be appropriately made to deny or not move the
14:07:47 resolution.
14:07:48 And then it's up to the administration to respond to
14:07:51 that.
14:07:51 You cannot advise them.
14:07:53 You can request, but the thing is, they are under no
14:07:55 obligation to do that second part of that motion that
14:07:57 you suggested, which is re-bidding.
14:07:59 >> If we tell them to and vote to it, they have to do
14:08:01 it, don't they?
14:08:04 >> No, sir, they don't.
14:08:05 The short answer is no, sir, they don't.
14:08:08 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: My motion is to deny.
14:08:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Spearman?
14:08:16 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Director of purchasing.
14:08:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm just hear to listen, want to

14:08:23 learn from you guys.
14:08:26 >>GREG SPEARMAN: I don't know what --
14:08:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Spearman, 0 this bid here, is
14:08:33 this a customary bid?
14:08:34 I know what demolition is.
14:08:36 Sometimes it costs more to demolish, sometimes it
14:08:40 costs less, but when you dump whatever you demolish,
14:08:44 it's costing more.
14:08:46 >>GREG SPEARMAN: That's correct.
14:08:46 Depends on how much you're dumping and what the cost
14:08:49 is.
14:08:50 That's actually covered by the contract, under this
14:08:52 contract.
14:08:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So is there an urgency on this
14:08:56 case?
14:08:58 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Code enforcement, the city attorney
14:08:59 has mentioned, has regular need to have demolition
14:09:03 sense ices provided, so by re-bidding this contract,
14:09:06 it possibly could delay some work that they already
14:09:08 have scheduled to be demolished.
14:09:11 I haven't talked with Mr. Slater about it, but I would
14:09:13 imagine he has ongoing projects that we need to go

14:09:15 ahead and to get demolished on regular basis.
14:09:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, for coming over.
14:09:25 Just clarify it, how quickly can your office, if you
14:09:29 so choose to re-bid this, because we can't force you
14:09:31 to.
14:09:32 But if you choose to re-bid it, how quickly can you
14:09:34 turn around this sort of relatively standard bid that
14:09:37 I have seen three or four times since I have been
14:09:39 here?
14:09:42 >>GREG SPEARMAN: This is a formal bid pro Jess.
14:09:44 Generally would take two, possibly three months to go
14:09:49 through.
14:09:49 We have to advertise the bids, get a recommendation
14:09:51 from the department.
14:09:52 They have to provide that recommendation back to
14:09:54 purchasing.
14:09:55 We then have to get a schedule on the docket agenda.
14:09:58 Have to come before you.
14:09:59 So it is going to take a significant amount of time.
14:10:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have seen you all turn things
14:10:06 things-and -- around in 60 days.
14:10:08 Is that a fair average?

14:10:10 >>GREG SPEARMAN: We possibly could do it in 60 days.
14:10:12 I'm trying to get council's reason behind re-bidding
14:10:15 it.
14:10:16 There was competitive process the first time around.
14:10:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My reason is, I came in late on
14:10:22 this discussion, I apologize.
14:10:23 My reason is that I heard somebody say maybe in this
14:10:27 construction environment, that is down, that we can
14:10:30 get a better price than we can when we bid it probably
14:10:33 16 months ago.
14:10:34 And I think that's perfectly logical.
14:10:38 And I think it's worth the shot.
14:10:40 Frankly I think we should be visiting all our
14:10:42 construction contracts along those lines, whenever
14:10:45 they're up for quote renewal.
14:10:47 So, anyway, you know, there's -- we don't have a
14:10:50 crystal ball.
14:10:51 We don't know which way it will go.
14:10:54 But I think it's worth the shot.
14:10:55 As long as we don't have significant gap, which
14:10:58 doesn't sound like we would, I'm willing to support
14:11:01 the motion to give it, throw the dice.

14:11:03 That's the only reason, Mr. Chairman, that I would
14:11:05 support the motion.
14:11:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question on the motion.
14:11:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we re-bid -- you re-bid it.
14:11:14 It comes back in, this person come in, whoever it is,
14:11:16 at the lowest bidder, then what?
14:11:21 >>GREG SPEARMAN: It could very well happen.
14:11:24 Chairman Scott, this company could be --
14:11:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm not raising the question.
14:11:30 Council is.
14:11:30 This person rebids it, they come back in.
14:11:34 >> And vote it down again.
14:11:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm just raising a legitimate
14:11:39 question.
14:11:41 >>GWEN MILLER: They'll vote it down again.
14:11:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, I'm raising a legitimate question
14:11:44 to council.
14:11:45 It goes back out, should the administration choose to
14:11:48 re-bid it, it come back in and this person still is
14:11:51 the lowest bidder.
14:11:52 Let's say come back in at $5,000 cheaper.
14:11:55 And they still the lowest bidder.

14:11:57 >> Or more?
14:11:59 >> You save $5,000.
14:12:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How are you going -- are you going to
14:12:04 approve it?
14:12:06 >>GREG SPEARMAN: I would advise you more strongly to
14:12:08 approve it.
14:12:08 My understanding right now is the contract renewable,
14:12:12 our option to renew.
14:12:13 If it was a competitive bid, and you did not approve
14:12:16 it for reasons not related to the bidding process,
14:12:19 that would definitely have potential ramifications,
14:12:23 legal context.
14:12:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I just wants us to understand.
14:12:29 >>GREG SPEARMAN: It would be significant.
14:12:32 >> Courageous I would agree obviously with
14:12:34 Mr. Fletcher in that regard.
14:12:36 Council, obviously does know that if the same bidder
14:12:40 who has been deemed to be a responsible low bidder in
14:12:43 this case comes back with the lowest bid, whether it's
14:12:47 less money, or conceivably more money than what you
14:12:51 have before you under the renewal, then council, based
14:12:56 on what I have heard, would have no legal basis to

14:12:59 deny it at that time.
14:13:02 As long as council does have this knowledge.
14:13:05 Thank you.
14:13:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Do they have legal right now to deny
14:13:08 it?
14:13:08 It is not a new bid.
14:13:10 It is just a renewal.
14:13:11 So do they have the right now?
14:13:14 >> May I ask Mr. Spearman --
14:13:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Spearman, what's the process.
14:13:19 How many weeks do you have to advertise this?
14:13:21 >>GREG SPEARMAN: We have to advertise it, councilman
14:13:24 Caetano, seven days prior to --
14:13:27 >> Seven days it has to be advertised in the
14:13:29 newspaper?
14:13:32 >>GREG SPEARMAN: That's correct.
14:13:33 We invite companies in to come in an discuss the
14:13:36 application.
14:13:37 Because it's a formal process it automatically makes
14:13:39 it a longer process in terms to get the contract
14:13:41 awarded.
14:13:42 >> You have a conference with the people who submit

14:13:46 bids and how long did that take?
14:13:48 >> The previous contract is normally two to three
14:13:52 weeks after the bids have been posted.
14:13:53 We allow another three weeks or so for the bids to
14:13:56 come in.
14:13:57 Then as review and evaluation, by the department, then
14:13:59 of course we take it through the dock agenda process.
14:14:04 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Why so much prolonging of time?
14:14:07 >> It is the formal bid process we have to go through.
14:14:09 It's that way for every formal bid.
14:14:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion on the floor.
14:14:13 The motion is to deny the contract.
14:14:15 That was moved by councilmember Kate know. Seconded
14:14:19 by Saul-Sena.
14:14:21 All in favor signify by saying aye.
14:14:22 All those opposed, nay.
14:14:27 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miller and Scott
14:14:29 voting no.
14:14:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Also, too, my colleagues on the board,
14:14:36 to my colleagues, when you call for did question, it
14:14:39 requires a second, just because call for it, don't
14:14:41 mean that you move it.

14:14:43 It is required a second.
14:14:45 And you have to vote on it.
14:14:46 And it could be voted down.
14:14:49 >> And there's no debate allowed for that.
14:14:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
14:14:53 Okay.
14:14:55 Let's move to 81.
14:14:56 Item 81.
14:15:04 >> Mr. Chairman, again, this is a recall of file
14:15:07 number V 09-82, which is placed on the agenda for full
14:15:13 council action.
14:15:13 On a petition regarding an SU-II sale of alcoholic
14:15:20 beverages 2(COP) at 5025 east Fowler avenue, suite 21
14:15:25 and 22.
14:15:25 The public hearing is closed.
14:15:27 The motion was made at the last regular meeting by
14:15:31 City Council member Dingfelder, seconded by Mulhern
14:15:34 that said ordinance be placed on first reading.
14:15:37 It was read at that time.
14:15:39 The motion was not adopted with councilmembers Scott
14:15:41 and Saul-Sena being absent and Caetano and Miranda
14:15:47 voting no.

14:15:47 Mr. Scott and Ms. Saul-Sena, I'm ^ sorry.
14:15:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I read the transcript.
14:15:55 It wasn't clear to me whether what's before us is the
14:15:58 original request or one that's a C, a conditional
14:16:01 request.
14:16:03 >> I don't believe the ordinance says anything about a
14:16:06 conditional license.
14:16:07 -- excuse me, conditioning SU-II.
14:16:12 >> If you wish to inquire of staff procedure for that
14:16:16 purpose.
14:16:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What's council pleasure?
14:16:20 >> It doesn't necessarily require opening the public
14:16:24 hearing.
14:16:25 I looked at the attorney and I see her nodding.
14:16:27 >> Rebecca Kurt the legal department.
14:16:30 Ordinance before you is for the original request.
14:16:33 No modifications.
14:16:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's no motion.
14:16:36 >> Actually there is a motion.
14:16:37 Let me inquire, councilmember Saul-Sena and chairman
14:16:42 Scott, are you prepared to vote on this issue?
14:16:44 >> Yes.

14:16:45 >> That being said, the motion that is before council
14:16:48 is to, to approve and again that motion did not
14:16:55 receive the requisite four votes, so Mr. Chairman it
14:16:58 is ready for council's vote on this issue.
14:17:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So wood we go back to the -- who made
14:17:04 the motion?
14:17:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It appears I made the motion to
14:17:07 approve.
14:17:08 Seconded by Ms. Mulhern.
14:17:11 >> Did you want to for purposes of clarity re-read the
14:17:13 ordinance?
14:17:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, that's not necessary.
14:17:16 All in favor of the motion signify by saying aye.
14:17:21 Opposes?
14:17:22 Nay.
14:17:26 >>THE CLERK: The motion failed --
14:17:37 >>THE CLERK: Voice recall.
14:17:38 >> Miranda?
14:17:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No.
14:17:41 >> Dingfelder?
14:17:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
14:17:44 >> Miller?

14:17:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
14:17:47 >> Scott?
14:17:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
14:17:48 Saul-Sena?
14:17:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
14:17:54 >> Caetano?
14:17:56 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: No.
14:17:57 >> Mulhern?
14:17:59 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
14:18:04 >>THE CLERK: The motion passes with Miranda, Scott and
14:18:09 Caetano voting no.
14:18:14 >> May the clerk please advise when the --
14:18:18 >>THE CLERK: The second reading of the ordinance will
14:18:19 be held March the 1st at 9:30 a.m.
14:18:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:18:24 Thank you very much.
14:18:27 Item 70.
14:18:41 >> You got to go back to your morning items.
14:18:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's 70, we actually have to come
14:19:01 back to us because councilmember Caetano has some
14:19:06 objection to this.
14:19:07 Legal, you want to address ^ that?

14:19:11 >> I believe councilman Caetano had questions for
14:19:14 staff.
14:19:15 Regarding the gross special assessment.
14:19:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My understanding that legal is going
14:19:21 to go look at, was the opportunity to make the
14:19:24 ordinance more equitable, more fair.
14:19:29 >> JOSEPH CATAENO Mr. chairman?
14:19:31 I think what we need, we need an ordinance that's
14:19:33 going to create an equalization board.
14:19:36 I have some documents ^ here.
14:19:39 Where people are paying $12 a year for streetlights.
14:19:43 And other people are paying 7 and $800.
14:19:48 And a some are paying $400.
14:19:49 The guy that's paying $12 a year is using the same
14:19:53 lights as the guy that's paying 7 and $800.
14:19:56 It's not fair.
14:19:57 Okay?
14:19:58 And I understand why this is being put forth.
14:20:02 The attorney explained to me.
14:20:04 But that's what these developers do.
14:20:06 Because there's nobody there with opinion.
14:20:08 The opinion comes later once the people who buy the

14:20:13 property move in, then they're stuck.
14:20:15 But this one here can be modified at a later date.
14:20:19 It is not something that's for life.
14:20:21 But I will not support it.
14:20:26 >> Councilman Caetano's issue is separate, although
14:20:31 it's an issue that will probably be, need to be dealt
14:20:35 with.
14:20:35 But at this point, that's a separate issue from the
14:20:39 resolution before you.
14:20:40 If council chooses to deny this particular special
14:20:47 assessment, then that would be separate from an
14:20:54 equalization board.
14:21:00 >> Council, may I make a suggestion?
14:21:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a motion?
14:21:03 >> Was there any -- refresh my recollection, I
14:21:06 apologize, Mr. Chairman.
14:21:08 Was there any request from the public?
14:21:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I asked for public comments this
14:21:13 morning.
14:21:13 And at that time, there were no one wanted to address
14:21:16 council.
14:21:17 And Mr. Caetano raised a question.

14:21:20 And so I said why don't legal go back and look at that
14:21:23 and come back with something that they could address
14:21:26 the concern.
14:21:26 >> Would you mind just making another inquiry if
14:21:29 there's a member from the public?
14:21:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
14:21:32 council on this?
14:21:34 >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I see nobody.
14:21:36 >> JOSEPH CAETANO: mr. Chairman, the reason this has
14:21:39 to be done today, this has to get to the property
14:21:41 appraiser.
14:21:42 For the property appraiser to put this on the tax
14:21:44 rolls.
14:21:44 All right?
14:21:47 But as I say, it can be changed down the road.
14:21:50 But I still will not support it.
14:21:53 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Steve Daignault. we'd be glad to
14:22:01 work with council and the development community on
14:22:04 trying to find a more equitable method.
14:22:07 I understand counsels members Caetano's concern and
14:22:11 the problems here.
14:22:12 The difficulty that we have is that the developers

14:22:15 come in with their own plan and their own way of
14:22:18 funding it and so, based on the developer's desire and
14:22:23 based on how many units are in a development, all of
14:22:27 those things go into the calculus to determine who
14:22:31 pays how much.
14:22:31 So, maybe we need to have some more guidelines to try
14:22:35 to make it equitable as they come in here.
14:22:39 And certainly they ought to be in here making this
14:22:42 presentation, because it's not the city staff.
14:22:44 Again, we are trying to just get this through so as
14:22:48 you stated, that this can go on the tax rolls and
14:22:51 those funds can be checked.
14:22:55 >> Just to refresh council's recollection, the clerk
14:22:58 refreshed mine.
14:23:00 This was previously held before it was held this
14:23:02 afternoon, a motion for councilmember Dingfelder,
14:23:05 seconded by Saul-Sena to approve.
14:23:07 So there is a motion on the floor.
14:23:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That is correct.
14:23:11 All in favor of the motion signify by saying aye.
14:23:15 Opposes?
14:23:20 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano and Mulhern

14:23:22 voting no.
14:23:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 71.
14:23:30 >> Good afternoon, Dennis Fernandez, historic
14:23:33 preservation manager here for your part three review
14:23:35 of ad valorem tax a exemption for the property located
14:23:38 at 2221 east fifth avenue a located in the Ybor City
14:23:42 local and national historic district.
14:23:44 This application is consistent with secretary this
14:23:47 year's standards for rehabilitation.
14:23:49 And the recommendation is that the application is
14:23:52 consist tenth with the city's historic preservation
14:23:55 property tax exception ordinance.
14:23:59 >> When was that picture taken?
14:24:01 >> I was there in 127.
14:24:03 (.
14:24:03 [ Laughter ]
14:24:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's great picture though.
14:24:09 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I think that might be the wrong
14:24:10 picture.
14:24:12 >> What year is that?
14:24:17 >> That's a later ITEM ON THE agenda.
14:24:19 On the Elmo is the subject property for the tax

14:24:23 exception.
14:24:23 This is the before picture.
14:24:24 That's the after picture.
14:24:28 So I'll be back in a little bit on the other item.
14:24:33 >> You had us all excited.
14:24:37 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: The warm-up.
14:24:38 Staff recommends approval of this ad valorem tax
14:24:40 exception.
14:24:41 Is there a motion?
14:24:42 >> So moved.
14:24:43 >> Second.
14:24:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Have ordinance -- anyone from the
14:24:47 public wish to address council?
14:24:49 Anyone from the public?
14:24:50 >> Move to close.
14:24:52 >> All in favor signify by saying aye.
14:24:56 >> I'll move the first reading, ordinance approving
14:24:59 historic preservation property tax exception
14:25:01 application, relative to restoration, renovation and
14:25:05 rehabilitation of certain property owned by Tomybor
14:25:10 LLC, in Ybor City city historic district, based on
14:25:15 certain findings, providing for -- providing for

14:25:22 severability, Providing for an effective date.
14:25:24 >> All in favor signify by saying aye.
14:25:25 Oppose, the same sign.
14:25:29 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
14:25:30 Second reading of the ordinance will be held
14:25:32 March 19th at 9:30 a.m.
14:25:34 And Mr. Chairman, you need to formally close the
14:25:37 public hearing on the item 70.
14:25:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
14:25:43 >> Second.
14:25:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
14:25:45 Thank you.
14:25:46 We have two items remaining.
14:25:48 Item 84, 85.
14:26:00 >> These are quasi-judicial.
14:26:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone speaking, please stand to be
14:26:05 sworn.
14:26:06 [Oath administered by Clerk]
14:26:16 >> Barbara Lynch, land development coordination.
14:26:18 This is the continued public hearing of an alley way
14:26:22 located in East Tampa, between 33rd street and 34th
14:26:26 street running from Knollwood to Pocahontas.

14:26:30 I do have a map on the Elmo.
14:26:31 This is the alley that had the private wastewater pipe
14:26:39 in it.
14:26:40 Staff had no objections and no easements require.
14:26:43 But, there was a private pipe, are for wastewater
14:26:48 discovered in the alley when they went out and did the
14:26:51 vacanting review.
14:26:52 Wastewater found it.
14:26:53 This is also one where we had property owner that
14:26:55 objected by correspondence.
14:26:58 And her name is miss Bucland.
14:27:03 She is still ontoing.
14:27:05 I don't know if you had a chance to read it, she sent
14:27:08 it yesterday.
14:27:09 I'll show you where she's located.
14:27:11 That's must buckman's property and I'm going to give
14:27:18 you a copy of her letter.
14:27:26 >> So we heard this case before?
14:27:29 >> Yes, I can show you photos again and the petitioner
14:27:31 is here.
14:27:32 >> What happened when we heard it?
14:27:35 >> The private pipe issue came up.

14:27:37 And you were going to have legal look at the
14:27:39 implications of the private pipe remaining in the
14:27:42 alley if you DID VACATE it.
14:27:44 And Julie is here to talk on that.
14:27:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's legal?
14:27:55 >>JULIA COLE: The last public hearing, which was
14:27:57 continued, council voiced some concern over what would
14:28:03 happen if the city were to vacate this right-of-way,
14:28:07 with this private sewer.
14:28:10 And if council were to vacate, then it would be a
14:28:15 private sewer and private from property.
14:28:17 And any private interests that stem from that would
14:28:19 have to be dealt with privately between the adjacent
14:28:24 property owners.
14:28:24 As far as getting on to the land to fix the sewers and
14:28:32 things that were going to happen to it.
14:28:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder?
14:28:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In terms of getting on to the law,
14:28:40 we always solve that by reserving an easement, right?
14:28:44 >>JULIA COLE: Right.
14:28:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would assume each if we approved
14:28:47 this, we would still reserve an easement?

14:28:50 >>JULIA COLE: Usually an easement is reserved by the
14:28:52 city for a public sewer.
14:28:53 This is a private sewer.
14:28:54 But the wastewater department is not responsible for
14:28:57 maintaining right now.
14:28:59 It wouldn't be responsible for maintaining it--
14:29:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Wouldn't it BE prudent to reserve
14:29:07 an easement anyway just in case the city got involved
14:29:10 at some future point in time?
14:29:17 >> Council, I don't believe there's an interest in the
14:29:19 city.
14:29:21 >>JULIA COLE: The problem is, you have a private
14:29:23 facility that's in a public right-of-way.
14:29:27 What you have heard and the testimony you have heard
14:29:29 and part of the reports is, staff indicating we have
14:29:31 no interest in what the end of the line facility is.
14:29:35 We really don't have an interest in the alley.
14:29:40 So from that perspective, the question is whether or
14:29:42 not the evidence is in the record to show that since
14:29:45 this is no longer necessary, we don't need to have
14:29:47 this remain as public right-of-way.
14:29:51 There are private rights to that potentially -- let me

14:29:55 say it this way.
14:29:56 Potentially private rights to that private facilities.
14:30:00 It would be imprudent for the city to hold an easement
14:30:03 for the benefit of those private property owners.
14:30:05 So really where you are, you either make a decision
14:30:08 that vacating that public of right-of-way is
14:30:11 inappropriate because public right-of-way is necessary
14:30:13 for the public interests.
14:30:15 Or we go ahead and approve those vacation petition.
14:30:19 But to hold a public easement for a private right
14:30:22 wouldn't necessarily be appropriate.
14:30:24 >> The 6608 is the one that's on our screen, is the
14:30:30 woman who wrote to us objecting.
14:30:33 But her pipe doesn't go into this alley?
14:30:37 >>JULIA COLE: No.
14:30:38 >> That's correct?
14:30:40 >> Wastewater department.
14:30:44 Does not go out into the alley.
14:30:46 The folks in the alley, a new service connection and
14:30:48 33rd street has been provided for them.
14:30:51 However at this time they have not chosen to connect
14:30:54 to it.

14:30:54 We advise that we recommend they do.
14:30:56 And the waste department will not maintain the waste.
14:31:01 They have the option to maintain the city sewer we
14:31:04 maintain should they choose to do so.
14:31:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is something, and I'm not
14:31:08 talking about this case in particular.
14:31:09 But the taxpayers in general are going to spend money
14:31:12 to put sewer line and water line, I brought this up to
14:31:16 the legal department on water, where it says you shall
14:31:19 apply for water meter.
14:31:22 Well, you can apply for water meter.
14:31:24 That doesn't mean you have to hook up to the water
14:31:26 meter.
14:31:27 So what's been going on, I have been battling some
14:31:30 cases here with the water bills in the tens of
14:31:33 thousands of dollars and neither neighbor has a water
14:31:36 meter.
14:31:38 But because the law says you shall apply and it says
14:31:41 you shall apply and install within 30 days, and you
14:31:45 know, I can understand, but if we spent that kind of
14:31:49 money on the sewer lines that get there, and
14:31:55 something -- I don't know why we put a sewer line if

14:31:58 they didn't want it.
14:32:01 >> It was built in 1969.
14:32:02 It is not really something I have an idea at the time.
14:32:06 This is my personal belief, we were extending sewer
14:32:10 lines all over the areas.
14:32:11 >> Chairman Scott was just a baby then.
14:32:13 Doesn't remember that.
14:32:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: But I can understand that and I can
14:32:18 understand why they don't want to hook up to the city
14:32:20 sewer.
14:32:20 Because then they got to pay 20 something dollars a
14:32:24 month based on their water bills.
14:32:26 >> They actually -- they already have the sewer bill.
14:32:29 It's the incured expense from the connection from the
14:32:32 back of the house to the front of the house.
14:32:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I did my own, it's back breaking.
14:32:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wish to address council on this
14:32:46 item?
14:32:47 Public hearing.
14:32:49 >> My name is Allen Jones, the petitioner.
14:32:54 In this case, I found out that by vacating the alley,
14:33:04 it's stopped traffic from going in between the

14:33:07 alleyway and your house.
14:33:09 You know, your property.
14:33:11 The pipes, they are privately owned, which we know,
14:33:19 and we can't deny the people that's on, everyone else
14:33:25 is connected to the city.
14:33:26 I'm talking about in the beginning, everyone agreed.
14:33:32 To vacate this alley.
14:33:33 They paid their money to vacate, except Ms. Buckley.
14:33:40 She didn't want the taxes for this alley.
14:33:45 I have a letter which I just received, which she wrote
14:33:51 you.
14:33:52 Down at the end she's talking about she don't want
14:33:55 land with raw sewage.
14:33:57 I don't blame her.
14:33:58 I wouldn't want land with raw sewage come running in
14:34:01 it.
14:34:01 But right now, that doesn't exist.
14:34:04 But if anything truly happened by this land staying
14:34:09 there, you will have raw sewage in that.
14:34:14 Instead of being connected to the city, which was
14:34:17 provided over 22 years ago.
14:34:19 And I just -- I can't see the reasoning that the alley

14:34:27 can't be vacated.
14:34:28 You know, to protect the individuals who own property
14:34:33 from people going through, back and forth through the
14:34:35 alley.
14:34:36 You know, getting the opportunity to break in your
14:34:39 home.
14:34:40 And then all kind of issues that comes up, with, you
14:34:45 know, not having it closed.
14:34:46 I'm talking about trash dumping, and everything else
14:34:49 illegally dumping, and I have to clean it up.
14:34:54 Which that's just my part.
14:34:59 But I don't feel that it should be left open.
14:35:04 To protect the homeowners there.
14:35:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Jones.
14:35:12 >> The sewer department did a lot of research out in
14:35:14 the field looking for this pipe and try to find people
14:35:17 connected.
14:35:17 Mr. Ware told me they found that this pipe is in the
14:35:20 west three feet of this alley, so if this were
14:35:23 vacated, and you know, the splits at the center line,
14:35:27 Ms. Buckland's property would not have any portion of
14:35:32 that pipe on there.

14:35:33 Actually the pipe would be in the portion of alley
14:35:36 that everyone who's connected to it is in.
14:35:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It doesn't affect 6608?
14:35:41 >> It shouldn't,.
14:35:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:35:45 Anyone else from the public wish to address council?
14:35:48 Anyone else?
14:35:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
14:35:50 >> Second.
14:35:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
14:35:52 Yes, sir?
14:35:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think the last sentence from
14:35:58 staff was probably the most significant to me because
14:36:00 I think Ms. Buckland makes a good point.
14:36:05 She doesn't want that alley vacated because she
14:36:08 doesn't want the raw sewage run under the land we
14:36:11 would give it.
14:36:12 But if that pipe is not down the middle, but her back
14:36:15 door neighborhood's side of the alley.
14:36:17 It's hard to tell from that picture.
14:36:20 But anyway, I believe you.
14:36:22 So if that's the case, I'm willing to support, I'll

14:36:25 make a motion to approve it and I'll read it as
14:36:28 follows.
14:36:28 For first reading, an ordinance vacating closing
14:36:31 discontinuing abandoning certain right-of-way alleyway
14:36:34 lying south of Pocahontas avenue north of Knollwood
14:36:39 street, east of 33rd street, west of 34th street,
14:36:43 hills subdivision, Providing for an effective date.
14:36:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
14:36:49 Seconded by councilman Kate know. Signify by saying
14:36:54 aye?
14:36:55 Motion motion --
14:36:57 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being
14:36:58 absence.
14:36:59 Second reading will be held at March 19th, 9:30 a.m.
14:37:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 85?
14:37:10 >> Dennis Fernandez, historic preservation manager.
14:37:13 I'm here on item 85, which is the designation of the
14:37:16 Vintage Auto Building located at 1609 north of
14:37:19 Franklin street.
14:37:20 As a local landmark in the North Franklin Street
14:37:22 downtown multiple properties grouping.
14:37:24 We can go back to that power point I had.

14:37:27 Will be very brief.
14:37:28 >> Dennis, what year do you think that picture is?
14:37:31 >> I would say that's probably late 20s picture.
14:37:34 >> What part of Franklin was that?
14:37:36 >> North Franklin street, north of the interstate.
14:37:41 Rialto theater.
14:37:42 Looking towards the free library.
14:37:44 The --
14:37:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I wasn't born then.
14:37:50 >> Just for our information, the building we are
14:37:53 looking at is the one in front of second and third,
14:37:59 early model car there on the right.
14:38:00 That's the one we are looking at.
14:38:03 Vintage Auto Building was constructed in 1920.
14:38:06 For traffic truck sales company.
14:38:08 The northern end of North Franklin Street was Hevel
14:38:11 occupied by the automotive sales and automotive
14:38:14 service industry.
14:38:15 The building is considered American commercial
14:38:18 vernacular.
14:38:20 You see the 1929 Sanborn map just to the upper
14:38:23 portion.

14:38:24 You see the pink block of buildings along Franklin
14:38:27 Street.
14:38:28 The amount of density there.
14:38:29 On the right, you see the aerial with the red box,
14:38:32 indicating the current site.
14:38:33 You see the Stetson law school to the left side of
14:38:37 that photo.
14:38:38 Once again, that's a zoom-in of the building just in
14:38:43 the center.
14:38:43 The building constructed in the 1920.
14:38:46 Front facade is faced with smooth yellow brick,
14:38:49 material and styles of choice in this area.
14:38:52 Other buildings, including the Rialto theater, that
14:38:56 was a material that was very popular in this
14:38:58 particular area of North Franklin street you see the
14:39:01 building today, the building has been used for storage
14:39:04 for large number of years.
14:39:07 The historic front was removed and there's a number of
14:39:11 internal modifications made.
14:39:14 Owner has already gotten under way with
14:39:16 rehabilitation.
14:39:17 Been to the architectural review commission.

14:39:18 In anticipation of approval for local landmarking.
14:39:21 You see the blocks being removed from the storefront.
14:39:24 And here is a proposal how the building is going to
14:39:27 look when he's done.
14:39:29 I think that's a tremendous asset to North Franklin
14:39:30 Street.
14:39:31 And to the economic revitalization of that area.
14:39:34 The historic preservation commission recommends
14:39:37 landmark designation under criterion A, which is the
14:39:40 building's contribution to commerce for the city.
14:39:43 And under criterion C, which is its architecture.
14:39:48 It will be joined by other buildings within that
14:39:50 district, such as the Arlington hotels, saint Andrews
14:39:55 Episcopal church and the Spanish restaurant.
14:39:58 The owner Carl Johnson is here.
14:40:00 If you have any questions, happy to answer them.
14:40:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any question, councilmembers?
14:40:05 >> Always have the feel-good presentations, thank you.
14:40:08 >> Not always.
14:40:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
14:40:12 council on this item?
14:40:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.

14:40:17 >> Second.
14:40:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
14:40:19 Mr. Miranda, since you're familiar with this, why
14:40:22 don't you read this ordinance.
14:40:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ordinance city of Tampa Florida,
14:40:31 designating Vintage Auto Building located 1609 North
14:40:36 Franklin street, Tampa, Florida as a local landmark
14:40:40 amending the North Franklin Street downtown multiple
14:40:43 properties group to include the Vintage Auto Building,
14:40:48 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
14:40:50 providing for an effective date.
14:40:51 >> Only question I have for you, Charlie, when you
14:40:53 clang that sector, does it hurt?
14:40:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You had to be careful because
14:40:58 sometime it come back and hit you.
14:41:00 Then you had to have the two little things in the
14:41:02 right order.
14:41:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Been moved and second.
14:41:05 All in favor signify by saying aye.
14:41:06 Opposes?
14:41:09 Okay.
14:41:09 Council --

14:41:12 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being
14:41:15 absent.
14:41:15 The second reading of the ordinance will be held
14:41:18 March 19, 9:30 a.m.
14:41:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, one thing I have left is the
14:41:22 commendation that we voted on, they wish that to be
14:41:25 presented on May 7th.
14:41:27 This is HL Moffitt cancer center meeting at 9:00 a.m.
14:41:31 So may 7,.
14:41:34 So they know to add that into the motion.
14:41:41 The date will be may 7 at 9:00 a.m.
14:41:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14:41:46 I had a prior motion about the boy scouts coming to us
14:41:49 on March 12th, to be recognized.
14:41:52 But, that night meeting, at the night meeting, but
14:41:56 that night meeting looks like it's going to be slow or
14:41:59 nonexistent.
14:42:00 So we are going to shift them over to March 26th, when
14:42:03 we have more to show them.
14:42:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, March 26th.
14:42:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll make that as a motion.
14:42:08 >> Moved and second.

14:42:08 Second by councilwoman Miller.
14:42:12 All in favor signify by saying aye.
14:42:14 Any other business to come before council?
14:42:20 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I want to ask the city attorney
14:42:23 to create an equalization board.
14:42:28 Revise our code to prevent stuff like we have in the
14:42:33 lighting districts, to be uneven and unfair to people
14:42:38 who are going to be living in that area.
14:42:40 What would do this?
14:42:44 The legal department?
14:42:46 Where is legal?
14:42:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: They would take a look at it, I
14:42:53 assume.
14:42:53 You're making a motion to establish equalzation board.
14:42:57 They would have to take a look and come back with
14:42:59 that.
14:43:00 >> Would your motion be direct them to explore it?
14:43:03 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: All they got to do is look at
14:43:05 this evidence I have here to see how unequal it is.
14:43:09 There's people paying $12 and people paying $760 for
14:43:13 the same streetlights.
14:43:14 It's just not fair.

14:43:18 >> Council, your motion could be -- if your motion is
14:43:21 to create revision to the code, the chair guys is
14:43:25 suggesting perhaps it comes back for discussion by the
14:43:28 legal department with the recommendation from council
14:43:30 of an equalization board and then council could give
14:43:34 direction at that point.
14:43:35 Whatever your intention is.
14:43:36 >> I have talked to Ms. Jan Washington who is in
14:43:39 charge of this particular department.
14:43:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
14:43:43 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: She says it needs attention.
14:43:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So legal will take a look at it and
14:43:47 come back to us for recommendation.
14:43:49 >> Regarding street light assessments.
14:43:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 60 days.
14:43:55 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The sooner the better.
14:43:57 30 days?
14:43:59 Been working on this for a year or longer.
14:44:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 16th of April?
14:44:06 That's fine.
14:44:07 Moved and second.
14:44:13 Second by council Mulhern, all in favor signify by

14:44:19 saying aye.
14:44:19 Any other items?
14:44:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: We have two things.
14:44:23 Number one, under new business on your addendum, there
14:44:25 was an e-mail from Lorie Denman administrative
14:44:30 assistant for Tampa Bay Regional Planning Council
14:44:33 requesting partnership of the one bay regional
14:44:35 visioning initiative be scheduled on upcoming council
14:44:38 session or workshop any time during March to may to
14:44:42 provide 15 minute power point presentation regarding
14:44:44 update of results of citizens survey where citizens
14:44:48 expressed what issues are important to them and what
14:44:50 they would like the region to look like in the future.
14:44:52 They are requesting a a 15 minute power point.
14:44:55 >> Let's do it during the workshop.
14:44:57 We have a may workshop?
14:44:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I see some hands up.
14:45:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This issue is being rationed now?
14:45:07 We will come to you in just a second.
14:45:09 Okay, go ahead.
14:45:12 >> 15 minutes, how about a may workshop?
14:45:16 >> If you wish, council, may 28th, you have 9 a.m.,

14:45:22 police Officer of the Month.
14:45:24 And a budget workshop regarding the property tax
14:45:27 proposal.
14:45:27 At 11 a.m., you have a continued workshop regarding
14:45:29 the local preference.
14:45:32 >> How long is the budget workshop?
14:45:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Budget workshop is 9:00 a.m.
14:45:37 >> How about 10:45?
14:45:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Going to be that long?
14:45:43 >> I'm not quite clear.
14:45:44 Is that one of the ones?
14:45:52 (inaudible).
14:45:58 >> Start with the police.
14:45:59 For 15 minutes.
14:46:01 How about 10:45 on the TBRPC or whatever it is?
14:46:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 1045 is okay.
14:46:12 >> Let's try to have them make their presentation ten
14:46:14 minutes.
14:46:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, that's a motion for 10:45 on,
14:46:18 may 26th, right?
14:46:20 >> May 28th,.
14:46:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: May 28th.

14:46:23 10:45.
14:46:25 Second by councilwoman Mulhern.
14:46:27 All signify by saying aye.
14:46:29 Opposes?
14:46:29 Anything else need to come?
14:46:32 >> Received and find.
14:46:33 >> So moved.
14:46:34 >> All in favor signify by saying aye.
14:46:35 Opposes?
14:46:36 Okay, we have someone here wanted to address council
14:46:38 from the public.
14:46:39 This is on the general public comment, is that what
14:46:42 this is?
14:46:44 >> Yes, sir.
14:46:44 We had a petition here from the cemetery Italian
14:46:48 cemetery.
14:46:48 And we supposed to be here this morning at 1:30.
14:46:51 I was wondering why they're not present to present
14:46:54 themselves, returning mincely.
14:47:00 In other words, they want to close 25th street.
14:47:02 You should have some information on that.
14:47:05 >> The item was on the agenda, sir.

14:47:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I thought we dealt with that.
14:47:14 >> Italian Club right-of-way, Machado street.
14:47:23 >> That sir has been continued to April 16th of 2009.
14:47:25 Per the request of the petitioner.
14:47:28 In order to I believe is what she stated, to talk with
14:47:31 people, she had additional issues that she needed to
14:47:36 discuss.
14:47:37 >> It appeared to me they should've notified the
14:47:39 homeowners in our neighborhood that they weren't
14:47:42 cancel lating this meeting, where in case my time and
14:47:46 other people time and a your time, to come down here
14:47:48 to make a presentation.
14:47:49 Then in our presence, I'm sort of dislike that.
14:47:54 >> I took my day off of work to be here.
14:47:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name.
14:48:01 >> 101 Machado.
14:48:04 Mr. Mayor, did you give me a minute?
14:48:07 Oliver mayo junior, it's my mother other home, but I
14:48:13 live in and out.
14:48:14 Thank a you.
14:48:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:48:16 So, you're saying that you object to the continuance,

14:48:20 but.
14:48:23 >> Yes, sir, I do, council Scott, due to the fact they
14:48:27 should've notified us.
14:48:28 I wouldn't, you know, your time likewise.
14:48:32 I think we should be -- they should have been more
14:48:35 respectful for in notification of us.
14:48:38 As homeowners.
14:48:39 With their petition.
14:48:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What we can do is ask maybe staff to
14:48:44 look into that, make sure they get notified in the
14:48:46 future on this item.
14:48:47 Can we do that?
14:48:49 >> So moved.
14:48:51 >> Council, maybe we -- are you aware of who's
14:48:55 representing them?
14:48:57 >> But do you have their contact information?
14:48:59 Do you know who is representing?
14:49:00 >> Yes, sir, I do.
14:49:02 But the thing is necessary once I got the notification
14:49:05 to participate in this meeting here this morning.
14:49:11 >> Well, now we know that it is continued till
14:49:15 April 16th.

14:49:16 And obviously if you have -- it's anticipated to go
14:49:20 forward on that date.
14:49:20 You may want to be in contact with them before that
14:49:23 date.
14:49:23 But obviously, if you have an objection on the 16th,
14:49:27 if there's a request for 00 can'tance, if there should
14:49:30 be another request for continuance, you can voice that
14:49:33 objection on the record.
14:49:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My think was, if we can have staff put
14:49:37 them into contact with whoever the petition is.
14:49:40 >> Can I make a motion to ask staff to contact these
14:49:43 citizens soon?
14:49:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the motion would be that --
14:49:52 >> Contact the petitioner and have them get in tough
14:49:54 with you.
14:49:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do I hear a second?
14:49:56 >> Second.
14:49:57 And just to clarify, probably best if you, on your way
14:50:02 out you give your names and addresses and phone
14:50:04 numbers to the clerk.
14:50:05 That way the staff will know how to get in touch with
14:50:07 you.

14:50:08 >> Thank you very much, council.
14:50:09 I love you and I thank you.
14:50:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
14:50:11 Thank you so very much.
14:50:13 Sorry about the confusion on that.
14:50:16 Moved and second.
14:50:16 All in favor signify by saying aye.
14:50:20 Any other business to come before council?
14:50:22 If not, we stand adjourned.
14:50:23 Thank you all.
14:50:24 (Adjournment at 2:52)

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