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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, March 19, 2009
9:00 a.m.
09:05:54 TAMPA CITY COUNCIL MEETING
09:05:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
09:06:21 order.
09:06:21 The chair will yield now to the honorable Charlie
09:06:24 Miranda.
09:06:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:06:27 It's indeed my pleasure and honor to present a lady
09:06:31 that I have known for many years, a friend of all the
09:06:35 members of council and outstanding citizen of the
09:06:38 city.
09:06:38 Her father and grandfather had one of the first
09:06:43 businesses in Ybor City over 100 years old, the Fish
09:06:47 Company, Agliano Fish Company.
09:06:51 Stephani herself through hard work and dedication has
09:06:53 become one of the executives of the Tampa Electric
09:06:55 Company, and of all things, I didn't get a chance to
09:07:00 see her because we had that one meeting here last day
09:07:05 when she was dancing with the stars.
09:07:08 If anyone here wants a dancing lesson or wants to know
09:07:13 how that's done, Stephani will be available for
09:07:15 signatures after she say it is prayer.
09:07:17 So please rise for the morning prayer and remain

09:07:20 standing for the pledge of allegiance.
09:07:27 >>> Charlie, thank you.
09:07:28 Good morning, Chairman Scott and council members and
09:07:31 everyone.
09:07:33 Nothing like starting off the day with a prayer.
09:07:35 The great thing about prayer in today's world, with
09:07:38 all the rules and regulations, is there's not a right
09:07:41 or wrong way or place to pray.
09:07:44 So I would like everyone to remember that as I ask you
09:07:46 to join me for this morning's invocation.
09:07:49 Dear Lord, good morning.
09:07:51 Thank you for another beautiful day.
09:07:52 We are grateful to live in such a wonderful city that
09:07:55 has so much to offer.
09:07:56 I know you know the details.
09:07:58 Hey, has anyone asked you how things are going for
09:08:01 you?
09:08:02 Hmmm.
09:08:03 From what I'm reading and seeing, I doubt we are
09:08:06 meeting your expectation.
09:08:08 Thank you for your patience.
09:08:09 We ask for your gid answer and love to help us get

09:08:11 back on track.
09:08:12 Maybe you can help us get starred by granting a large
09:08:14 dose of integrity.
09:08:16 Help to us realize that it is no coincidence that the
09:08:18 two main components of integrity, morals and ethics
09:08:22 and the letters that these words begin with, they mean
09:08:24 that integrity begins with me as it should with every
09:08:27 single one of us.
09:08:28 We also seem to be running low on respect for others.
09:08:33 Forgive us for forgetting that in your creative
09:08:36 genious of making us all individually unique, the one
09:08:38 thing we all are is equal.
09:08:41 Lord, we thank you for your unconditional love and
09:08:43 pray you don't give up on us just yet.
09:08:45 Please bless this wonderful day and guide our
09:08:47 leadership to make the best decisions for our
09:08:50 community.
09:08:50 And, Lord, we always thank you for listening.
09:08:52 Amen.
09:08:53 P.S.
09:08:54 We love you.
09:08:57 (Pledge of Allegiance)

09:09:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Stephani.
09:09:14 >> Roll call.
09:09:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:09:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:09:22 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:09:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:09:26 Let me read into the record, we have a memorandum from
09:09:29 Councilwoman Mary Mulhern.
09:09:33 "I will be unable to attend council meeting on March
09:09:35 19th, 2009, due to an out-of-town family
09:09:39 obligation.
09:09:40 I appreciate the reasons for my absence being read
09:09:44 into the record."
09:09:45 Again this is from Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:09:49 I will give you a copy of it.
09:09:54 Also, on the agenda, off-the-agenda item, I'm assume
09:10:00 that we need to approve the commendation that
09:10:04 councilman Dingfelder wanted to present this morning.
09:10:06 >> So moved.
09:10:10 >> Second.
09:10:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's moved and seconded that the
09:10:18 commendation requested by councilman Dingfelder.

09:10:22 (Motion carried)
09:10:32 Okay.
09:10:36 I'll yield now to councilman John Dingfelder.
09:11:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Good morning, council.
09:11:25 Pete, come on in.
09:11:26 What an honor it is for me to present the commendation
09:11:31 to our good friend Pete Burgue and I hope I pronounced
09:11:37 it right.
09:11:38 Like Dingfelder, I'm sure it been mispronounced a
09:11:41 million times in your life.
09:11:43 I don't know FHP you remember this, I had an
09:11:45 opportunity to work with Pete out on Davis islands.
09:11:49 I was with the civic association out there, and we put
09:11:52 on the first island fest, and I called the city and
09:11:57 said, what do I do?
09:11:59 And enter Pete and he walked me down the street, we
09:12:07 had a fantastic festival, and it's my understanding
09:12:10 you have been doing that sort of thing for our
09:12:11 community for so long, for almost four decades.
09:12:16 I'm hesitant to admit.
09:12:19 Pete, I am going to read this commendation and wish
09:12:23 you well.

09:12:23 And then we'll have Karen and some other folks speak
09:12:27 to you, and you can rebut.
09:12:30 [ Laughter ]
09:12:32 Tampa City Council wishes to congratulate parks and
09:12:34 recreation deputy director Pete BURGUE upon his
09:12:38 retirement after 38 years of service to our city.
09:12:41 During his life long tenure with the City of Tampa,
09:12:45 Pete has been a vital part of the city's Parks and
09:12:47 Recreation Department from Gasparilla parade to simple
09:12:51 block parties.
09:12:52 Pete's professional handling of more than 800 licensed
09:12:56 events each and every year is testament to his
09:12:59 management skills and abilities.
09:13:01 And of course you have a little help from your
09:13:02 friends.
09:13:03 >>> Yes, lots.
09:13:04 >> Pete was involved with all three of our Super Bowls
09:13:07 including this most recent Super Bowl in 2009.
09:13:11 His involvement led to many accolades that the city
09:13:13 received in hosting these event
09:13:15 During his long and valued tenure Pete's many
09:13:18 contributions led to the betterment of our youth and

09:13:20 his leadership enhanced the quality of life in our
09:13:23 city.
09:13:23 Tampa City Council salutes you, Pete Burgue, and we
09:13:27 wish you the best in your well deserved retirement.
09:13:31 Congratulations.
09:13:32 [ Applause ]
09:13:49 >>> Santiago Corrada, neighborhood services with the
09:13:53 City of Tampa.
09:13:53 I know you are going to hear many accolades in the
09:13:56 days to come but personally speaking, there's this
09:13:58 Visa commercial that says "priceless."
09:14:01 That's what Pete Burgue is.
09:14:04 Priceless.
09:14:04 I can tell you that's the only phone number I know to
09:14:07 call that there's going to be a voice on the other
09:14:09 side that's going to say, "yes, sir, yes, sir, we'll
09:14:13 take care of it, we'll make sure it happens."
09:14:16 What an incredible employee oh to emulate.
09:14:20 I wish everyone was a Pete Burgue because I can tell
09:14:23 you we would be running very well oiled.
09:14:26 We are already running well oiled but we would be very
09:14:29 well oiled.

09:14:31 I'm going to miss him because I know when I dial up
09:14:33 that cell number, that voice isn't going to be there
09:14:37 for me.
09:14:37 And when we are out there in those special events I
09:14:41 can say, "Pete, pick me up in this corner in a golf
09:14:46 cart and let get to it."
09:14:48 I'm not going to have my golf cart chauffeur so I am
09:14:52 going to have to find out how to drive the thing.
09:14:56 Pete, thank you for so many years of service.
09:14:59 I have I have never heard anyone say a bad thing about
09:15:02 Pete Burgue.
09:15:04 I know not too many people said anything bad about him
09:15:07 over his 38 year career.
09:15:08 Pete, thank you so much for your service to our city.
09:15:11 We are going to really, really miss you.
09:15:14 [ Applause ]
09:15:18 >>> Good morning.
09:15:20 Karen Palus, parks and recreation director.
09:15:23 Today is a wonderful day to celebrate Pete and his 38
09:15:26 years of service to the City of Tampa.
09:15:28 He has truly done a tremendous effort out there, has
09:15:31 left a phenomenal legacy for the children's lives that

09:15:37 he touched, to the wonderful assets we have in our
09:15:40 community, to all of those events and those visitors
09:15:42 that come and enjoy everything that Tampa has to
09:15:45 offer.
09:15:45 So on behalf of the entire Parks and Recreation
09:15:47 Department, we are truly going to miss Pete.
09:15:50 He has just been a wonderful, wonderful asset to the
09:15:53 department, will be a very, very big shoe to fill,
09:15:58 tremendous fill to -- shoe to fill in.
09:16:01 We will miss him very much.
09:16:02 We celebrate his 38 years and are very, very proud of
09:16:06 all of his efforts.
09:16:07 Pete, thank you.
09:16:11 [ Applause ]
09:16:20 >>> Most of you, we worked together over the years and
09:16:23 I appreciate the kind words.
09:16:25 But none of this would be done without the fine staff
09:16:27 that we have in the Parks and Recreation Department.
09:16:30 I'm a little biased, but I believe we have one of the
09:16:33 best Parks and Recreation Departments in the entire
09:16:35 nation.
09:16:36 And I think all of us should be proud of that.

09:16:38 I want to thank you council.
09:16:39 You all have been very supportive of the Parks and
09:16:41 Recreation Department over the years, the bond issues
09:16:43 and different things that we have been able to do.
09:16:46 I appreciate, enjoyed working with Santiago and Karen
09:16:50 and many people before that.
09:16:51 So I'm a man of not too many words.
09:16:55 So thank you very much.
09:16:56 I appreciate it.
09:16:57 This has been a tremendous journey from 1971 to here.
09:17:03 So thank you very much.
09:17:07 [ Applause ]
09:17:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to add my voice to the
09:17:19 many accolades.
09:17:20 Whenever there's something that needs to happen and I
09:17:22 hear the person to contact about it is Pete Burgue it
09:17:26 makes me really happy because I know that it's
09:17:28 possible to get done, and easily and with grace, and
09:17:32 you are a man of few words but you are a man of great,
09:17:35 positive energy in terms of making things happen.
09:17:38 And I think the reason that the staff, that you are
09:17:44 complimenting your staff is they have enjoyed working

09:17:47 with you, and your part of the world is one of those
09:17:49 places that when you think about it and when you say
09:17:52 your name, you have the confident, positive feeling
09:17:56 that whatever the celebration or the event, that it
09:18:01 will be done well, and it will be done with very good
09:18:05 vibes from you and all the people who work with you.
09:18:08 So thank you so much for your years of service.
09:18:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:18:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to say thank you.
09:18:19 He knew me when I first came in on in 1974.
09:18:23 I don't look the same.
09:18:25 I used to have curls.
09:18:26 But I he looks the same.
09:18:28 I want to thank you and your department.
09:18:30 That's one of the departments hit the hardest in
09:18:33 recent reductions and certainly stepped up and do 110%
09:18:36 of the job that they are supposed to be doing, even
09:18:39 above the call of duty.
09:18:40 I want to thank Santiago because I look at him, and I
09:18:43 know he cut his hair.
09:18:50 So we are doing much better in that department and
09:18:53 that will be a discussion for us later on.

09:18:55 But thank you, Pete, for all the many years of good
09:18:58 service.
09:18:58 You always took care of the problem, tried to take
09:19:01 care.
09:19:01 You can't solve all the problems but you tried.
09:19:03 That's what counts.
09:19:04 Thank you very much for all your years of service.
09:19:08 [ Applause ]
09:19:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Shelby, do you want to review the
09:19:18 agenda with us, please?
09:19:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.
09:19:22 Good morning, members of City Council.
09:19:23 You have a very brief addendum to today's agenda.
09:19:28 Item 83 is scheduled to be taken up at 1:30 in the
09:19:31 afternoon, but just to give notice to the public, it
09:19:33 involves the SU-2 sale of alcoholic beverages
09:19:38 2(COP-X), 3306 West Spruce Street.
09:19:42 There has been and will be a request at 1:30 to
09:19:44 continue that to April 2nd, 2009 at 1:30 o'clock
09:19:47 p.m.
09:19:48 So just to give people advance notice.
09:19:50 It can't be taken up until that point.

09:19:52 With regard to item 68, that is a situation where the
09:20:00 vote of council member Mulhern may or may not make a
09:20:04 difference.
09:20:04 You will notice she is absent today.
09:20:05 So the request of the chair is to take up that
09:20:07 position first at 9:30 a.m. to resolve that issue to
09:20:10 either go forward or to continue it.
09:20:13 Council, item 82, there is an e-mail from Barbara
09:20:17 LePore transmitting a staff report to attach from the
09:20:20 TPD regarding the petition at 1007 North Franklin
09:20:24 Street.
09:20:26 Other than that I have no other changes to the agenda
09:20:27 that I am aware of.
09:20:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Any items that need to be pulled?
09:20:31 Motion to approve?
09:20:32 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
09:20:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:20:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:20:38 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:20:40 Opposes?
09:20:41 Okay.
09:20:42 At this time we will take our public comment.

09:20:44 Council has set aside 30 minutes for those who wish to
09:20:47 address council this morning.
09:20:48 So may come now.
09:20:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just a reminder.
09:20:56 Do you wish to give preference to those items that are
09:20:58 on the agenda first?
09:21:00 >> Yes.
09:21:01 Thank you.
09:21:03 We do give preference first to those items that are on
09:21:05 the agenda first.
09:21:07 And then those persons that have spoken on items on
09:21:10 the agenda, then anyone else with remaining time may
09:21:13 address council.
09:21:14 So anyone who wishes to address council at this point
09:21:17 on items on the agenda may come first.
09:21:20 Anyone want to address council on items that are on
09:21:23 the agenda may come now.
09:21:24 You may come line up.
09:21:26 Come line up.
09:21:28 You line up on the wall if you are going to be
09:21:29 speaking to council, please.
09:21:31 >>> Thank you.

09:21:32 We weren't trying to be shy.
09:21:33 Mike Rothenberg, 1512 south Trask Street, Tampa.
09:21:38 I would like to thank the council today for the
09:21:40 opportunity to be here to address the issue of -- and
09:21:44 be sure we continue to keep cell towers out of our
09:21:47 neighborhoods and out of our schools.
09:21:48 Because of the controversy of middle school we had a
09:21:53 chance to read the city's zoning code and for the most
09:21:56 part offers significant protection.
09:21:57 In fact several years ago you removed a number of
09:22:00 neighborhood schools from the overlay map, it's very
09:22:03 positive, and we believe it prevents a situation
09:22:06 similar to that which happened in the county.
09:22:07 But there are a few issues, a few changes.
09:22:12 We feel this code can function better.
09:22:14 We forwarded each of you an electronic version of
09:22:17 these electronic changes which I can quickly
09:22:19 summarize, if the Elmo is available.
09:22:39 You notice currently, some schools are allowed a cell
09:22:41 tower by right.
09:22:42 Others require an S-2 variance.
09:22:44 Under our proposed changes, no towers will be allowed

09:22:47 on school property, and we define setback as 1500 feet
09:22:52 from the schools.
09:22:54 Today towers are allowed in city parks, following our
09:22:59 recommended changes, they are still allowed but not
09:23:01 co-located for fire rescue facilities.
09:23:03 Currently there's a residential setback of 100 percent
09:23:06 of the tower height.
09:23:07 We would expand that in our recommended changes to 300
09:23:09 percent.
09:23:11 Buffering screening is required but not schools or
09:23:13 city owned property.
09:23:15 That seems to be an error perhaps in the construction
09:23:17 of the ordinance.
09:23:18 We would just make those changes to require buffering
09:23:20 and screening of all towers.
09:23:23 And insurance requirement we don't think are defined
09:23:26 and we are recommending some particular coverage.
09:23:28 The most significant changes in the 1500-foot
09:23:32 recommended setback requirement from school.
09:23:34 And the rationale for that set back can be seen on
09:23:46 this chart.
09:23:49 You can see that the maximum ground level RFR occurs

09:23:52 at about 700 feet from the tower source with a decline
09:23:55 to approximate background at about 1500 feet.
09:24:00 And that's the basis for this recommendation.
09:24:03 A quick calculation indicates this removes less than
09:24:05 20% of the total land area of the city, petitioner's
09:24:13 tower site.
09:24:14 We don't believe this is an onerous restriction.
09:24:17 Lastly, I believe there's a chance here to present us
09:24:20 from moving down a slippery slope caused by the
09:24:22 ever-famous unintended consequences.
09:24:25 I'm sure you are all familiar with the concept of
09:24:27 environmental discrimination.
09:24:29 This is the idea, that high income neighborhoods get
09:24:32 country clubs while low income neighborhoods get
09:24:35 hazardous waste dumps.
09:24:38 Based on their funding model, lower income schools
09:24:41 need cell towers to generate revenues but schools
09:24:45 serving high income neighborhoods don't need towers
09:24:47 and parents can step up to financially support the
09:24:49 school.
09:24:50 This truly screams of environmental discrimination and
09:24:53 it should not be the policy of the school district.

09:24:55 If these changes are ultimately approved by the
09:24:57 council, the school district will be forced to provide
09:24:59 a safe environment regardless of school affluence.
09:25:03 We don't believe towers belong on school property.
09:25:08 (Bell sounds).
09:25:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much, sir.
09:25:14 Sir, do you have handouts for council?
09:25:16 >>> Yes.
09:25:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You can give them to the attorney.
09:25:19 He will pass them out.
09:25:20 For those of you who are holding signs up, it is
09:25:22 council's policy not to hold up signs in the chamber.
09:25:25 Only those who are speaking can display their sign on
09:25:29 the Elmo.
09:25:30 That is council's policy.
09:25:31 So I want to remind you of that.
09:25:36 Okay?
09:25:49 If you are speaking to an item on the agenda, it
09:25:51 doesn't matter, no matter what order.
09:25:53 If you are speaking to an item on the agenda, we give
09:25:55 preference to the agenda first.
09:25:57 Okay?

09:26:08 >>> (off microphone)
09:26:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We only have 30 minutes.
09:26:14 Then the process is, it doesn't matter, as long as you
09:26:17 want to speak to an item on the agenda.
09:26:21 Follow what I'm saying?
09:26:22 >>> Good morning, members of council.
09:26:25 My name is Ari Fitzgerald, 702 Clear Avenue in Tampa.
09:26:30 I want to thank you the council for giving us the
09:26:32 opportunity to speak and to ensure that we continue to
09:26:35 keep towers out of our neighborhoods and off of our
09:26:37 schools.
09:26:39 I apologize for reading my remarks.
09:26:41 I'm not an accomplished public speaker.
09:26:43 Many of us became involved in this issue when the
09:26:46 school district considered the placement of a tower on
09:26:48 the campus of Coleman middle school in Tampa where two
09:26:51 other schools and a lot of homes would have been
09:26:52 affected.
09:26:54 Public outcry stopped that tower with citizens
09:26:57 pledging to seek smarter placement policy.
09:27:01 A recurring theme you are likely to hear from the
09:27:04 wireless industry in this context is that section 704

09:27:07 of the telecommunications act of 1996 precludes local
09:27:11 governments such as yourself from denying the
09:27:13 placement of towers based on health effects.
09:27:17 The industry has used this translation as a sword and
09:27:24 a shield to railroad the local governments to its
09:27:26 fitting.
09:27:27 The terms health effects is a paraphrase to extend the
09:27:30 reach of the act beyond what section 704 really says.
09:27:36 Far from tying local governments hands the
09:27:38 unambiguously local preserved control relating to
09:27:42 towers, section 704, says in pertinent part, except as
09:27:46 provided in this paragraph, nothing in this act shall
09:27:49 limit the authority of a local government over
09:27:51 decisions regarding the placement of personal wireless
09:27:54 facilities.
09:27:55 Some limiting language says, no government may
09:27:58 regulate the placement of wireless facility on the
09:28:01 basis of environmental effects, that they comply with
09:28:06 the regulations.
09:28:08 The word "health" is nowhere to be found.
09:28:11 The act says environmental.
09:28:14 The industry doesn't think there's a difference, but

09:28:16 the dictionary disagrees with them, and so do rules of
09:28:19 statutory construction.
09:28:20 According to the American heritage dictionary,
09:28:23 environmental is defined as the conditions and
09:28:25 circumstances that surround one.
09:28:27 The combination of external physical conditions that
09:28:29 affect the growth, development and survival of
09:28:32 organisms.
09:28:33 On the other hand, health is defined as soundness
09:28:37 especially of body and mind.
09:28:39 Freedom from disease or pain, the general condition of
09:28:41 the body.
09:28:43 As you can see, determined environment addresses the
09:28:46 external conditions, the term health addresses the
09:28:49 internal conditions.
09:28:50 They are not identical.
09:28:51 I suggest that the industry is wrong when it says
09:28:55 Congress intended to limit your authority to regulate
09:28:57 tower placement for the health, safety and welfare of
09:29:00 citizens.
09:29:01 It is known that these towers interfere with medical
09:29:04 equipment and aggravate or cause a number of illnesses

09:29:07 and disabilities.
09:29:09 In considering the distinction between environment and
09:29:11 health, we must take care not to run afoul of another
09:29:15 federal law, the Americans with Disabilities Act, thus
09:29:18 more protection, not less is called for.
09:29:22 Thank you for allowing me to address you today.
09:29:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:29:25 Next speaker.
09:29:29 >>> Good morning.
09:29:31 Thank you for letting me be here today.
09:29:32 My name is Pearl Chiarenza. I come here as a parent
09:29:35 and a quiet majority here in the county and I want to
09:29:38 speak to you and the council because what you do today
09:29:40 in the city will affect us in the county in regard to
09:29:42 cell towers.
09:29:43 Giving the schools the opportunity to place the
09:29:45 towers, enables funding the rich for the education of
09:29:49 all children.
09:29:51 Replacing of items such as the $40 thousand used for
09:29:53 lockers.
09:29:54 These programs are desperately needed throughout the
09:29:55 county and city, and the money received through this

09:29:58 program will make a great difference to the schools.
09:30:02 PTA meetings, presenting themselves as parents in
09:30:05 schools that children attend.
09:30:09 Shouting down individuals that, sending e-mail
09:30:12 messages for a different view, harassing employers of
09:30:17 those that are in support of towers, e-mail messages
09:30:20 to these employers locations, handing out
09:30:23 misinformation mostly linked to cell phones, using
09:30:27 school district e-mails to those in support of towers,
09:30:33 in the changing decision.
09:30:34 This is evidenced at Coleman.
09:30:40 Sending the parents e-mails that the tower is going to
09:30:43 be 295 feet or whatever as big as the confederate flag
09:30:48 is not corrected.
09:30:49 It is 100 to 125 feet.
09:30:52 The money does go to schools and has been the last ten
09:30:56 years.
09:31:03 The elementary was a site of the tower under the
09:31:05 current program and that school is 17,000 for the next
09:31:08 ten years.
09:31:10 The district has a project that the community didn't
09:31:16 want the tower.

09:31:26 Simply trying other schools without the other schools
09:31:29 to have the same chance to make the decision.
09:31:33 They claim it because cell towers are a health risk.
09:31:37 But anyone on this board believes that it causes
09:31:41 nosebleeds, depression and insomnia.
09:31:45 I share with you the claims regarding health risks for
09:31:49 your review.
09:31:51 The scare tactics are just that.
09:31:53 There's no legitimacy to the claims, and the city
09:32:00 makes over 100,000 per year leasing city property to
09:32:03 wireless carriers.
09:32:04 If the council were to deny schools the money the city
09:32:07 is receiving, why should schools be treated
09:32:10 differently?
09:32:10 There is tremendous support from school programs, over
09:32:13 35 people attended a school board meeting in February
09:32:16 for the program.
09:32:16 I just received notice of this problem last evening.
09:32:19 That's why I'm here.
09:32:20 We would have more if the time was available.
09:32:27 It would be the end to the program.
09:32:30 The city zoning code is working just fine, and I agree

09:32:36 there should be meetings.
09:32:37 I support that.
09:32:38 I am asking the council to leave the zoning as it
09:32:40 reads because it's working in the best interest of the
09:32:43 community.
09:32:43 Thank you.
09:32:43 I'll leave these.
09:32:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:32:47 Next speaker.
09:32:50 >>> Good morning.
09:32:51 My name is Marlin Anderson, 5007 West San Jose Street.
09:32:55 I got involved in the cell tower issue because of an
09:33:00 attempt to put a cell tower at Coleman middle school.
09:33:04 I was concerned about the effects on property values
09:33:10 of houses in the neighborhood of this proposed cell
09:33:13 tower as well as the health risks to the children at
09:33:17 Coleman middle school and therefore I got involved in
09:33:20 this issue.
09:33:21 I am going to focus just on the property values right
09:33:23 now, because when I started looking at this, I tried
09:33:27 to visualize this, having this cell tower right there
09:33:30 on the grounds of the school, first of all it's going

09:33:32 to be ugly, aesthetic blight on the neighborhood that
09:33:39 will affect property values.
09:33:40 Second, houses that are in the vicinity are going --
09:33:44 there's going to be possible health concerns, still
09:33:47 unknown health concerns from the radiation from these
09:33:50 towers.
09:33:50 You are never going to see a real estate that says
09:33:54 beautiful 4 bedroom 2 bath house located in close
09:33:58 proximity to public schools, a pool, and parks, and
09:34:04 also 150-foot cell tower.
09:34:08 You are not going to see that because they know it's a
09:34:10 big negative.
09:34:11 People won't buy a house that has a big cell tower
09:34:14 nearby.
09:34:14 The other thing I wanted to do, just read a couple of
09:34:17 things here.
09:34:18 This is from the appraisal institute which is the
09:34:20 largest global professional membership organization
09:34:22 for appraisers with 91 chapters throughout the world.
09:34:25 It says the institute spotlighted the issue of cell
09:34:27 towers and the fair market value of a home and
09:34:30 educated members of the cell tower should in fact

09:34:33 cause a decrease in home value.
09:34:35 Second thing is, the definitive work on this subject
09:34:38 was done by Dr. Sandy Bond has concluded that media
09:34:43 attention to the potential health hazard of cellular
09:34:46 towers and antennas resulted in increased resistance
09:34:49 to sites near those towers.
09:34:51 Percentage decreases mentioned in the study range from
09:34:55 2 to 20%.
09:34:57 Just from this standpoint alone I ask that the council
09:35:00 stiffen up the ordinance on this particular issue.
09:35:02 Thank you.
09:35:08 >>> My name is Carrie Gramail, 4423 west Estella
09:35:13 Street.
09:35:14 In 2004 the International Association of Firefighters,
09:35:17 the largest union of first responders in North
09:35:19 America, passed a resolution banning cell towers from
09:35:23 fire houses until more research is done because
09:35:26 firefighters living at stations with cell towers were
09:35:30 becoming sick.
09:35:31 Their position states: Whereas the brain is the first
09:35:34 organ to be affected by RF radiation and symptoms
09:35:37 manifest in a multitude of neurological conditions

09:35:40 including migraines, extreme fatigue, disorientation,
09:35:44 slow reaction time, vert I co, vital memory loss and
09:35:48 attention deficit life threatening emergencies and
09:35:52 whereas most of the firefighters who are experiencing
09:35:54 symptoms can a tribute them to the onset of the first
09:35:58 week these tower antennas were activated.
09:36:01 So what was happening was in California, where
09:36:04 firefighters had cell towers located at or near their
09:36:08 stations, they were getting sick.
09:36:10 So the fire union stepped in and said, let's do a
09:36:13 study.
09:36:14 So they investigated, where were the firefighters
09:36:16 getting sick?
09:36:17 They were getting sick at stations where the
09:36:20 firefighters were living.
09:36:22 Whereas RF radiation is emitted by these cellular
09:36:25 antennas and RF radiation can penetrate every living
09:36:28 cell including plants, animals, and humans, and
09:36:31 whereas both the U.S. and Canadian governments
09:36:34 establish regulatory limits for RF radiation based on
09:36:38 thermal measurement, not nonthermal, which is what we
09:36:43 are talking about.

09:36:45 So what the union said was, we don't want the cell
09:36:49 towers at our stations.
09:36:51 They concluded the departments facility where
09:36:55 firefighters live and work are not the proper place
09:36:57 for this technology, which can endanger their health.
09:37:01 And we submit, if they are not the appropriate place
09:37:05 for fire stations, then they certainly aren't than the
09:37:09 appropriate place for our schools, our neighborhoods,
09:37:10 our playgrounds and our parks.
09:37:12 Please, change your ordinance.
09:37:14 Make it more responsible.
09:37:15 Thank you.
09:37:21 >>> Thank you, council, for well coming testimony
09:37:24 today.
09:37:24 My name is Victoria Spearon.
09:37:25 I devoted my life to serving the community and
09:37:27 families while at classrooms and PTA events.
09:37:31 I worked from the time I was 14.
09:37:33 My husband and Army major has logistical and tactile
09:37:38 experience.
09:37:39 We lived three years in Wiesbaden Germany.
09:37:45 I testify today on behalf of my children. Principals

09:37:45 in Hillsborough County have questionably been given
09:37:48 authority to place cell towers at our schools with no
09:37:50 input from the parents or community.
09:37:51 This has proven divisive and clearly opposes the basic
09:37:56 principles of zoning law.
09:37:57 Honest people in our community including children have
09:38:00 reported adverse health problems that would be
09:38:02 expected under conditions of chronic exposure of
09:38:05 radiofrequency radiation, specifically microwave
09:38:08 radiation.
09:38:09 In fact, the frequency deployed for the cell phone
09:38:12 system are adjacent to that use for the microwave
09:38:14 oven, 2.45 gigahertz.
09:38:18 Cell phones operate at 1.8 to 2 gigahertz. These
09:38:18 frequencies by their size are maximumly absorbed by
09:38:21 animal tissue and especially by children's brains.
09:38:25 Senior radiation scientist Robert Watkins stated
09:38:28 these, quote, are in the range of frequencies with
09:38:31 known adverse health effects.
09:38:33 Our recent hearing on Capitol Hill brought out these
09:38:36 fact.
09:38:36 I quote from a National Academy of Science report,

09:38:41 Division of Engineering and Science, 2002, quote, the
09:38:45 first radiofrequency nonlethal weapon is based on a
09:38:48 biophysical susceptibility known empirically for
09:38:52 decades. More in-depth health effect studies were
09:38:55 launched only after a decision was made to develop
09:38:57 that capability as a weapon.
09:38:58 The heating action of RF signals is well understood
09:39:01 and can be the basis for several additional directed
09:39:03 energy weapons.
09:39:05 Lethal and nonlethal weapons technology will probably
09:39:07 be based on more subtle human RF interactions in which
09:39:10 the RF exposure causes an effect other than heating.
09:39:13 For example, stun, seizure, startle, and decreased
09:39:13 spontaneous activity.
09:39:18 Recent developments in the technology suggests that
09:39:20 the space to be explored for subtle yet potentially
09:39:20 effective nonthermal biophysical susceptibilties is
09:39:26 that.
09:39:27 Unquote.
09:39:27 The military has studied what subtle RF radiation does
09:39:30 to the human body.
09:39:31 Then working on how to manipulate RF signals to create

09:39:34 a desired negative effect on the enemy's ability to
09:39:38 function.
09:39:38 We do not want our children involved in what will be
09:39:42 noted by future generations as one of the biggest
09:39:46 involuntary hazardous exposures of children to date.
09:39:49 According to the UK Parliament, independent expert
09:39:51 group in May 2000, "children may be more vulnerable
09:39:57 because of their developing nervous system, the
09:40:00 greater absorption of energy in the tissue of the
09:40:00 head."
09:40:01 The report states very clearly, "monitoring should be
09:40:05 especially strict near schools, emissions of greatest
09:40:07 propensity should not fall within school grounds."
09:40:11 If our family is fortunate enough to be sent overseas
09:40:14 again, I will rest easily known Germany and other
09:40:18 countries are working for the strict regulation of RF
09:40:20 regulation.
09:40:21 As long as I live in this country I will not rest
09:40:23 until this city and this nation has safeguarded the
09:40:23 most vulnerable members of our society.
09:40:28 I urge you to place the setback of 1500 feet on cell
09:40:31 towers from schools and monitor the schools to be sure

09:40:33 of the radiation levels.
09:40:34 Thank you.
09:40:36 >>> Mary Meckley, 17834 Arborgreen Drive.
09:40:49 I have a master's degree in international relations
09:40:50 and have worked extensively in intercultural
09:40:53 communication.
09:40:54 I also have additional certification from the master
09:40:57 home environmental program.
09:40:58 My research has involved monitoring environmental
09:41:01 hazards and educating the public about them.
09:41:05 According to food and drug administration testimony of
09:41:09 2000, FCC radiofrequency guidelines are vague on
09:41:15 protection from thermal effects of RF exposure and may
09:41:18 not be protective against any nonthermal effects of
09:41:22 chronic exposure.
09:41:25 EPA challenged FCC on the fact that FCC did not
09:41:28 consider children, elders or ill persons to be
09:41:32 vulnerable.
09:41:34 Such vulnerability is well established.
09:41:36 Since FDA and EPA both site inadequate protection the
09:41:43 city must establish monitoring and mitigation efforts
09:41:46 in its ordinance.

09:41:48 These fall within your authorities under the telecom
09:41:51 act.
09:41:51 Monitoring to be performed by independent engineers
09:41:55 whose services can be funded by way of the wireless
09:41:57 companies, payment to the city, and to private hosts
09:42:01 of infrastructure.
09:42:03 Mitigation should involve the city's provision of RF
09:42:07 shielding materials and high exposure residential and
09:42:11 school areas.
09:42:12 Because it's antennas are orphan disguised and hidden
09:42:19 the public must be informed of its whereabouts.
09:42:22 I urge to you post on the city's web site a
09:42:24 comprehensive list of antennas with their owners and
09:42:27 frequencies.
09:42:28 One general source is antenna search.com.
09:42:32 T-Mobile asserts that the wireless industry is tightly
09:42:37 regulated by the FCC which sets and enforces very
09:42:41 conservative science-based RF emissions guidelines to
09:42:46 protect public health.
09:42:47 In fact, US regulations are among the most lax in the
09:42:51 world.
09:42:53 Environmental exposure or power density can be

09:42:55 measured in microwatts per square centimeter.
09:43:00 FCC allows the public 1,000 microwatts per square
09:43:06 centimeter.
09:43:07 This is based on a 30-minute exposure, not a six-hour
09:43:12 school day.
09:43:13 Other countries are up to 10,000 times stricter.
09:43:18 I submit a charge of extreme laxity and various peer
09:43:23 review scientific reports proffering this.
09:43:38 For example, it is visible that cellular phone based
09:43:43 stations should not be cited closer than 300 meters to
09:43:46 populations.
09:43:46 Kolandeski concludes that children near a base station
09:43:52 have less developed memory and attention, their
09:43:53 reaction time was slower and their neuromuscular
09:43:55 apparatus endurance was decreased.
09:44:00 Pitcher, et al, found a slow school promotion rate in
09:44:02 children living near a tower.
09:44:07 Micalosi, et al, found elevated childhood leukemia
09:44:11 surrounding a transmitter.
09:44:15 Dolk and Hawking found elevator cancer in several
09:44:15 studies.
09:44:15 (Bell sounds).

09:44:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:44:18 Next speaker.
09:44:21 >>> Hello.
09:44:22 My name is Cynthia Shellabarger, and I'm a former
09:44:28 public health education teacher of 19 years.
09:44:30 So what do the experts say?
09:44:32 I have some things here I would like to read.
09:44:34 The Congress hereby declares that the public health
09:44:38 and safety must be protected from the dangers of
09:44:42 electronic product radiation. That's public law
09:44:47 90-602, section 354, October 18th, 1968.
09:44:55 This should not be overlooked.
09:44:57 The potential for an impact by wireless communications
09:45:00 technology on a child's educational process, i.e., by
09:45:07 possibly affecting learning ability, it stems from
09:45:09 recent studies involving short term exposures that
09:45:13 demonstrated several effects on brain functions,
09:45:16 produced by low intensity, post modulated
09:45:19 radiofrequency radiation.
09:45:21 Even a slight degree of impairment of learning ability
09:45:24 over years of exposure may negatively affect the
09:45:29 quality of life that could be achieved by these

09:45:31 individuals when adults.
09:45:35 Norbert Hankin, Ph.D, EPA environmental scientist,
09:45:39 December 19th, 2000.
09:45:42 Given the biological possibility of negative health
09:45:45 impacts, particularly to the human nervous system, as
09:45:49 well as anecdotal evidence of illness and death in
09:45:54 cities from transmission has already been implemented,
09:45:57 and voluminous medical studies indicating human and
09:46:01 ecological harm from microwaves, we urge the
09:46:05 suspension of personal communication systems,
09:46:09 infrastructure, PCF infrastructure, pending full
09:46:12 public notification of its potential hazards.
09:46:15 Boston Health Scientist, June 1997.
09:46:20 To reduce the likelihood of damaging the health of
09:46:23 humans when siting cell towers, one, towers with omni
09:46:29 directional antennas should never be placed in close
09:46:33 proximity to residences.
09:46:35 Two, towers with directional antennas should never be
09:46:38 at the same or nearly the same elevation as nearby
09:46:42 residences.
09:46:46 Three, before siting any microwave tower, the existing
09:46:49 RF environment should be thoroughly analyzed to avoid

09:46:54 microwave amplification by vector addition of RF
09:47:00 fields.
09:47:00 Bill Currie, Ph.D., RF engineer.
09:47:05 PCF emissions are in the family of radiofrequencies
09:47:11 with no adverse effects.
09:47:14 Robert Watkins, senior radiation scientist, NA,
09:47:18 Department of Public Health, July 1998.
09:47:21 So what do we want?
09:47:23 We want a responsible cell tower ordinance in the City
09:47:26 of Tampa.
09:47:28 Thank you.
09:47:35 >>> Bill Cook.
09:47:36 I reside at 4704 West Neptune street in Tampa,
09:47:39 Florida.
09:47:41 You are being bombarded with a lot of information
09:47:44 about towers as you work on this ordinance.
09:47:45 We know you are going to hear from your attorney
09:47:47 today.
09:47:47 We are here to provide some additional input and
09:47:49 thought.
09:47:50 Sometimes they say a picture is worth a thousand words
09:47:51 so I brought a few thousand words with me.

09:47:55 We talk about towers.
09:47:57 It seems to maybe some benign but when you think about
09:48:00 a tower, think about it as an industrial use.
09:48:04 This is a light industrial use.
09:48:06 This is a tower at a school.
09:48:08 This is the base area of the tower is 90 by 30 feet,
09:48:13 basically the size of a 7-Eleven.
09:48:15 I guess could you put a 7-Eleven there if you wanted
09:48:18 to, but this is what it looks like in your school.
09:48:21 So we do not believe that a tower in fact is just the
09:48:25 tower itself.
09:48:26 It is everything that goes around it, all the
09:48:28 infrastructure needs to be considered, taken into
09:48:31 account.
09:48:32 We are looking at the potential of placing this type
09:48:33 of commercial industrial use inside residential areas.
09:48:37 We don't think that's appropriate inside our zoning
09:48:41 code.
09:48:45 Not to mention the proximity to schools and children.
09:48:48 This is a photograph of a tower.
09:48:51 I am standing at the playground at the school and not
09:48:56 the tower directly behind me, as close as I am to you

09:48:58 is where that tower is located.
09:49:00 That's the type of siting we are getting in our area.
09:49:08 And in terms of safety, this is an illustration
09:49:15 showing the gate wide open at the base of that tower.
09:49:18 There was no one there.
09:49:19 This was the middle of the day.
09:49:20 It was unprotected.
09:49:22 Any child could have gone in there.
09:49:24 This is not safe.
09:49:25 And we can't be assured that it would be.
09:49:30 Because the problem is, this is the sign that's on
09:49:33 that tower at the fence.
09:49:36 Beyond this point, radiofrequency point may exceed
09:49:42 rules to exposure.
09:49:42 This is what you will see.
09:49:44 Lastly someone had mentioned earlier the EPA.
09:49:47 You need to know the FCC has no research body.
09:49:49 They rely on other government entities to provide them
09:49:53 information.
09:49:53 This is what the EPA said in a letter from 2002.
09:49:57 The FCC exposure guideline is considered protective of
09:50:01 effect arising from thermal mechanism but not from all

09:50:04 possible mechanisms.
09:50:05 Therefore, the generalization by many that the
09:50:09 guidelines protect human beings from harm is not
09:50:12 justified.
09:50:14 They go on to say, there are reports that suggest that
09:50:17 potentially adverse health effects such as cancer may
09:50:20 occur.
09:50:20 This is the EPA.
09:50:22 Since EP's comments were submitted to the FCC in 1993,
09:50:27 a number of studies associated with acute and chronic
09:50:31 local level exposure, RF radiation, has increased.
09:50:34 So we were relying on our government to help us and
09:50:37 one branch of the government is disagreeing with
09:50:39 another.
09:50:39 It puts us in a somewhat difficult place but we think
09:50:42 working through the zoning we can find a way to
09:50:45 provide cell coverage in our state in, our
09:50:47 environment, at the same time, protecting our families
09:50:50 and our friends.
09:50:51 And lastly, we would like you to know, as people who
09:50:57 oppose towers on schools, we are not opposed to cell
09:50:59 phones and worry not opposed to cell towers.

09:51:01 We just think it needs to be done responsibly and
09:51:04 those what our zoning rules are for.
09:51:06 Thank you.
09:51:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If you all can refrain from applause,
09:51:13 that will help us a lot.
09:51:14 Thank you.
09:51:20 >>> My name is Teresa potter.
09:51:22 I live in South Tampa.
09:51:23 I'm not an activist.
09:51:25 I'm not a lawyer.
09:51:26 I don't know a lot of legalese.
09:51:28 I'm a mother of two, very active young boys, and I'm
09:51:31 here for that reason.
09:51:32 And for another reason.
09:51:33 The first reason would be economics.
09:51:38 I know that everybody is living through, struggle
09:51:41 through economic times.
09:51:42 I think this way to solve that is to stop feeling like
09:51:47 things are about to end and start spending money.
09:51:50 Towards that end my husband and I are wanting to put
09:51:52 money that we have been saving towards the home that
09:51:53 we want to build and we are looking towards doing

09:51:55 that.
09:51:56 One of the things that concerns me with this is that
09:51:59 we have a company bringing in new technology, where
09:52:04 they need to put in a lot of cell towers to do it.
09:52:07 They don't have to go before anybody to explain why
09:52:09 this new technology is needed.
09:52:11 They don't need to go before anybody to talk about
09:52:14 where they are going to put it, so you want to put
09:52:17 money into the environment, into the economy, and
09:52:19 build a house, and you don't know if coming into the
09:52:23 future somebody is going to put a cell tower across
09:52:25 the street.
09:52:26 It going to impact your economics, and it going to
09:52:28 impact your children.
09:52:31 There's a lot of technical talk about whether this is
09:52:35 really true, whether it really impacts the health.
09:52:38 When it comes to my children -- and I happen to be a
09:52:42 mother who is an expert on autistic disorders, I know
09:52:47 that we are not always looking at what we know.
09:52:52 You have to take the facts that you have at hand.
09:52:54 You may not have enough information to know that this
09:52:56 is exactly accurate.

09:52:58 You take that information and you use it as best you
09:53:00 can to protect your children and make sure that they
09:53:02 have the future that they need.
09:53:04 So I'm not the only kind of parent who would see a
09:53:09 cell tower and say I don't know what impact it's going
09:53:12 to have, so I am going to move out of this home, I'm
09:53:15 not going to take my child to that park.
09:53:17 We are going to protect our children more than we
09:53:19 would protect ourselves and we all know that.
09:53:21 So at the very least, this information needs to be
09:53:24 brought before somebody, before something goes in.
09:53:27 I'm not a big cell phone user but whenever I need to
09:53:31 use it, it happens to work.
09:53:32 So I don't know that we need to have a cell tower in
09:53:36 every neighborhood for that to happen.
09:53:37 But I know that none of us know that because nobody is
09:53:40 talking to anybody about it because nobody has to.
09:53:43 So that's the basis of why I think the ordinance needs
09:53:45 to be changed.
09:53:46 Thank you.
09:53:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Hold your applause, please.
09:53:51 The time limit is up.

09:53:52 We actually went about 35 minutes.
09:53:56 We have four speakers left.
09:53:59 I am going to allow the four speakers, council, to
09:54:02 have two minutes.
09:54:05 Well, one has already spoken.
09:54:07 I will allow you two minutes.
09:54:10 And that actually gives you two and a half minutes.
09:54:12 Set the clock at two minutes.
09:54:14 They get two and a half roughly.
09:54:17 >>> Chip Thomas, I want to talk about water because I
09:54:21 think you are going to talk about that later today.
09:54:23 And, you know, we could be in the early stages of a
09:54:27 20-year drought.
09:54:29 Nobody knows that we are not.
09:54:30 We could be seeing long-term shifts in the weather
09:54:32 pattern that's causing our diminished rainfall.
09:54:35 You know, when we change the composition of the whole
09:54:38 atmosphere, creating so much CO-2 raising the levels
09:54:42 about 25%, that wouldn't be an unreasonable effect.
09:54:52 We are not talking about a ban on watering crops.
09:54:55 We are not talking about limiting how much water
09:54:58 people can use for showers, drinking, cooking, home

09:55:02 brewing beer -- just see field goal you are paying
09:55:05 attention.
09:55:05 We are talking about watering lawns.
09:55:07 And water officials have run out of adjectives to
09:55:12 describe the severity of the situation the past three
09:55:14 years.
09:55:14 One water offerings even said that on a scale of one
09:55:18 to 100, one being the worst, we are at one.
09:55:21 And that was about five months ago.
09:55:26 Our rivers, our aquifers, our lakes are all at record
09:55:30 lows.
09:55:31 You have to wonder what has to happen before we ban
09:55:33 the use of drinking water on lawns? How bad does it
09:55:36 have to get?
09:55:39 You have a chance, in a state that's been
09:55:42 environmentally regressive for so long, Tampa City
09:55:45 Council has a chance to really make a statement here.
09:55:49 And if you choose to put a ban on watering, that
09:55:53 really ratchets up the pressure on SWFWMD and all
09:55:57 other City Councils and county commissions in the
09:56:00 area.
09:56:00 Now the pressure is on them to follow suit, and I

09:56:02 think some will.
09:56:03 And as more do they are all going to have to.
09:56:08 Some intended benefits of this, City Council at
09:56:10 St. Pete is talking about eliminating the use of
09:56:15 fertilizer in the summer.
09:56:17 That's a pretty complicated situation.
09:56:19 Why not just ban watering?
09:56:21 That takes care of the fertilizing situation which is
09:56:23 the cause for a lot of algae blooms, a lot of problems
09:56:26 in our bay.
09:56:27 So you are going to eliminating water on grass is
09:56:32 going to solve that.
09:56:33 I don't think you can afford not to do it at this
09:56:36 point.
09:56:37 And five years from now we are going to look back and
09:56:39 say, what were we thinking, that in 2009 we were still
09:56:43 allowing watering of lawns?
09:56:46 You are going to have lawn people come in and squawk.
09:56:48 (Bell sounds)
09:56:50 But this opens the door for a great opportunity to
09:56:52 them.
09:56:53 They should be growing natives, not grass.

09:56:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:56:56 Next speaker.
09:56:57 >>> First of all thank you so much for allowing us to
09:57:00 continue with this for the next couple minutes.
09:57:01 My name is Lisa Williams, 4718 west Estella Street in
09:57:05 Tampa.
09:57:06 Again thank you for the opportunity to speak with you
09:57:08 today.
09:57:09 We are here to ask the council to consider what you
09:57:11 have heard today.
09:57:13 There can be no doubt that your citizens are
09:57:16 overwhelmingly opposed to the cell towers in
09:57:19 neighborhoods and schools.
09:57:22 In South Tampa alone, we collected approximately 1,100
09:57:28 signatures, and we would have had more if we had the
09:57:30 time.
09:57:37 Cell towers at both Coleman and other schools.
09:57:41 The other parts -- let there be no doubt the ordinance
09:57:48 needs to be strengthened.
09:57:49 I have had so many phone calls and e-mails the last
09:57:52 four or five days with concerned neighbors and parents
09:57:57 that said they cannot make this meeting.

09:58:00 They said, let the councilmen and women know how
09:58:09 important this is to us.
09:58:10 We have to take our children to school.
09:58:12 A lot of them live in north Tampa.
09:58:13 They work.
09:58:14 They can't take off time from work to be here.
09:58:16 So I am here today for them.
09:58:19 As well as my three boys.
09:58:21 Again we appreciate your time.
09:58:23 And again ask the council to consider what has been
09:58:27 stated today and strengthen the ordinance.
09:58:29 Thank you.
09:58:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:58:30 Next speaker.
09:58:36 >>> My name is Manuel Franco and I am the petitioner
09:58:40 on agenda item number 68.
09:58:41 I'll just take a moment.
09:58:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You can't talk about that right now.
09:58:46 We'll call that item up when we get to the.
09:58:50 But this is only the public comment time.
09:58:52 That's a public hearing.
09:58:53 Thank you, sir.

09:58:58 >>> Pete Johnson, 301 Druid hills.
09:59:02 I have some good news.
09:59:03 Finally.
09:59:04 I'll pass these House out.
09:59:14 The neighborhood association is a newly regrouped
09:59:20 association. If you look through the very first
09:59:21 newsletter that we finally put together this morning,
09:59:23 so it's still warm, it will show you some of the
09:59:28 problems we have had in the neighborhood and what we
09:59:29 have had to do about them.
09:59:33 I think everything is pretty much explanatory.
09:59:35 I'm not really going to go into it.
09:59:37 The only thing that I was really, really proud about
09:59:41 is we had one drug house among others, we have gotten
09:59:44 three drug houses closed up by the city, but one they
09:59:49 could only close up the actual structure of the house.
09:59:51 They could not close up the backyard that was fenced
09:59:54 in.
09:59:55 And this is where the drug and the prostitution was
10:00:00 happening.
10:00:00 So the other day the neighbors finally, when they
10:00:03 realized the city could not do that legally, they

10:00:05 finally took the law into their own hands and tore
10:00:08 down a dilapidated fence and a gate that kept TPD from
10:00:16 seeing the drugs and prostitution happening.
10:00:19 Since that has happened, not one drug dealer, not one
10:00:22 prostitute has been on that property.
10:00:25 So regardless, we might have overstepped the law a
10:00:29 little bit, but it's a foreclosed house.
10:00:31 No one wants it.
10:00:32 We took the fencing down and correct the problem.
10:00:36 We also had paid by the traffic department an alley
10:00:44 that was allowing drugs and prostitution to happen,
10:00:48 and the TPD and code told us that the road was in such
10:00:51 a poor condition that they could not patrol it.
10:00:55 So hi marks goes to the traffic department.
10:00:58 We have had lighting put in.
10:01:00 The only problem with the lighting that we put in is
10:01:02 that now, you see the drug activity a lot more.
10:01:08 And the last page -- we also have a problem with
10:01:11 dumpsters.
10:01:13 City dumpsters that are located on the right-of-way,
10:01:17 next to a telephone, next to a bus stop, with the lids
10:01:21 open, but there are no regulations, nor the commercial

10:01:28 customer to maintain or to put the dumpsters in a
10:01:31 better position.
10:01:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:01:34 Thank you.
10:01:45 The cell tower is on the agenda.
10:01:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, I wanted to comment on what Mr.
10:01:51 Johnson had to say.
10:01:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go ahead.
10:01:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:01:54 I want to thank you, Mr. Johnson, for being the voice
10:01:58 for improving neighborhoods.
10:02:02 You are tireless.
10:02:03 This is great information.
10:02:05 But in terms of regulation, the lighting, the paving,
10:02:08 the regulations for dumpsters, we will address that
10:02:11 under new business.
10:02:12 I think that's really germane and it affects a lot of
10:02:15 neighborhoods.
10:02:15 Thank you for bringing it to our attention and thank
10:02:17 you for continuing to show up and work with us.
10:02:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman?
10:02:23 Just to clarify for any of the folks who spoke on that

10:02:27 cell issue -- and I am not going to speak on the
10:02:30 substance, just the timing -- but that's item 76.
10:02:33 And it looks like we'll get to that after 10:30.
10:02:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
10:02:40 It's set for 10:30 during staff reports.
10:02:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just wanted to clarify that for
10:02:46 anybody.
10:02:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, let me just say, in case you
10:02:50 don't know, I think most of you know that Councilwoman
10:02:53 Miller's mother-in-law senator Les Miller's mother
10:02:57 passed, and I want to make you all aware of that, and
10:03:01 Councilwoman Miller is here today, and you may want to
10:03:04 give more details about the funeral arrangements.
10:03:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:03:11 It will be held on Friday and Saturday.
10:03:13 Friday will be a wake from six to eight.
10:03:15 And on Saturday it will be at two.
10:03:19 And will be held at the St. Luke's AME church located
10:03:23 on the corner of 24th street -- 25th street
10:03:27 and 17th Avenue.
10:03:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:03:30 We would like to extend our condolences to

10:03:34 Councilwoman Miller and to senator Miller as well.
10:03:37 Our prayers.
10:03:39 We move to item 68 at this time.
10:03:43 I believe, council, this item was closed.
10:03:47 It just needed a vote.
10:03:48 Is that right, Mr. Shelby?
10:03:50 First item 68?
10:03:59 That's the one we'll take up first for the liquor
10:04:01 license.
10:04:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A second reading on a proposed
10:04:04 ordinance so it actually a full public hearing.
10:04:10 I don't know whether you want to take that up now or
10:04:13 when you first got -- do you want to inquire as to
10:04:16 whether they want to go forward?
10:04:18 >> I thought it was closed and we were just supposed
10:04:20 to take a vote on it.
10:04:23 That was my understanding.
10:04:24 It would be for a vote only.
10:04:25 We have had second reading at the last meeting.
10:04:27 Right?
10:04:28 >>THE CLERK: Previous meeting was first reading.
10:04:34 We'll need to open the public hearing.

10:04:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 68, council, was a 4-3 vote if I
10:04:42 understand correctly, and one of the parties who voted
10:04:44 for it is council member Mulhern who is not present
10:04:50 today so the issue would be assuming if the petitioner
10:04:52 wishes to go forward and hear the petition in its
10:04:55 entirety, it may come to the point that assuming
10:04:57 nobody changes their vote, which is anybody based on
10:05:00 the evidence can change their vote, but assuming
10:05:02 that's not the case, it will still be a 3-3 tie and
10:05:05 would have to come back.
10:05:06 So I suspect that the petitioner can either have that
10:05:09 option of having the public hearing, perhaps having it
10:05:11 passed today, if somebody's vote should change.
10:05:14 But if the vote should remain the same it will have to
10:05:17 come back or what they can request is a continuance to
10:05:20 have the full board hear this and not take the time to
10:05:23 go through it today but have it come back at a future
10:05:27 date with a full board.
10:05:29 So I guess that would be if the petitioner were
10:05:32 present.
10:05:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
10:05:37 >>THE CLERK: Mr. Chairman, you will need to open the

10:05:42 public hearing.
10:05:43 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
10:05:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 64 through 71.
10:05:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is the only one we are going to
10:05:49 deal with that.
10:05:50 Moved and seconded.
10:05:51 (Motion carried).
10:05:53 >>> Manuel Franco.
10:05:55 I am the petitioner on item, agenda item 68.
10:05:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you understand what the
10:06:00 distinction is?
10:06:01 The issue is, what you have before you today is the
10:06:04 opportunity to have a second reading and a another
10:06:07 public hearing.
10:06:08 The only issue is that council member Mulhern who
10:06:12 voted in the affirmative last time, voted for it, is
10:06:15 not present.
10:06:15 So conceivably, assuming that nobody changes their
10:06:18 votes you could have a 3-3 tie which is what you had
10:06:21 the last time.
10:06:22 Could you go forward today.
10:06:23 It's your prerogative.

10:06:24 Tough right to do that and see how it turns out,
10:06:26 should anybody change their vote.
10:06:28 It may resolve it today.
10:06:29 If not the same thing would happen that happened the
10:06:31 last time.
10:06:32 The other alternative is just to say I would like to
10:06:35 ask a continuance, find the next available date when
10:06:37 there's a full council present.
10:06:39 But in order to speed things up, the chair suggests
10:06:43 that we discuss this now rather than go through the
10:06:45 entire process and then have you sit here all day and
10:06:48 have the same thing that happened the last time.
10:06:51 >>> I would just as soon go ahead and deal with it
10:06:53 because I'm here, I know that there is representation,
10:07:01 others that I think may want to speak as well.
10:07:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So you want to move forward?
10:07:05 >>> Yes.
10:07:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want to take it up now?
10:07:08 >> Yes, take it up now.
10:07:09 Because at the last meeting, again they waited all
10:07:12 morning, we carried it to the afternoon, then it got
10:07:14 continued.

10:07:15 So we will just go ahead and deal with it this morning
10:07:18 first thing and get it out of the way.
10:07:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you want to swear the witnesses?
10:07:22 >> Yes.
10:07:22 Those who wants to address council stand and be sworn.
10:07:25 (Oath administered by Clerk)
10:07:26 >> Mr. Chairman, I believe there have been public
10:07:33 documents that have been available for public
10:07:35 inspection at City Council's office.
10:07:36 I ask that be received and filed by motion.
10:07:38 >> So moved.
10:07:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:07:40 (Motion carried).
10:07:42 >>ERIC COTTON: Land development.
10:07:43 This is item number 68.
10:07:45 V-0 982.
10:07:47 I want council to know the site plan has been
10:07:50 certified by the zoning administrator and they have
10:07:52 been provided to the city clerk's office.
10:07:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
10:07:57 Petitioner?
10:07:58 Do you want to add anything else?

10:07:59 >>> Actually, at this time, no, not really.
10:08:07 I do have someone here that wants to speak on my
10:08:14 behalf.
10:08:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
10:08:17 Those who wish to address council may come forward at
10:08:19 this time.
10:08:19 Those who wish to address council on this item, will
10:08:23 you come, line up at this time?
10:08:25 >>> Good morning.
10:08:26 How is have been than today?
10:08:28 >> Three minutes.
10:08:28 >>> Exciting morning.
10:08:30 I'm Lisa Monlion, north Suwannee Avenue, Tampa,
10:08:37 president of the civic association in Terrace Park in
10:08:39 which the neighborhood the Blue Lizard Mr. Franco's
10:08:44 business is contained.
10:08:45 I'm here on behalf of a private citizen, also as the
10:08:48 secretary of the civic association, I have a letter to
10:08:52 present from the president of the civic association
10:08:54 stating that Mr. Franco was at -- was at a previous
10:09:00 meeting of our civic association, spoke about his
10:09:03 business, the type of business, the future expansion.

10:09:05 We also are in receipt of the notice of the hearing
10:09:08 for the alcoholic beverage permits.
10:09:12 No one at the association has raised any concern or
10:09:15 any comments on the business.
10:09:17 We haven't had any issues with the business that's
10:09:21 been established in our neighborhood.
10:09:22 And we don't see any issues with the expansion or with
10:09:27 the alcoholic beverage permit.
10:09:29 I would like to point out, if you probably saw in the
10:09:31 packet that there is another alcoholic beverage use
10:09:35 permit in that same shopping center.
10:09:39 Just feet away from the front door, and that's for a
10:09:42 restaurant.
10:09:44 So we don't see any issue with it.
10:09:46 I would like to hand this letter to the clerk for
10:09:50 entry into the record.
10:09:51 This copy is for each of you along with the original.
10:09:53 And I think new businesses in our neighborhood is what
10:09:57 we need.
10:09:58 We need vibrancy.
10:10:00 We need economic development.
10:10:01 We need somebody who is going to come in and shown

10:10:04 such an interest in our neighborhood more than any
10:10:06 other business owner that has decided to locate in our
10:10:09 neighborhood.
10:10:09 So we are very pleased with Mr. Franco, his business
10:10:12 and are happy to help him.
10:10:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
10:10:15 Next speaker.
10:10:21 >>> Ellen Snelling, from Tampa Alcohol Coalition.
10:10:29 I would like to talk about some of the neighborhood
10:10:31 concerns from the church and University of South
10:10:33 Florida.
10:10:34 I think there's been letters sent in showing some
10:10:36 opposition to this.
10:10:37 My concern is that Mr. Franco's business is doing very
10:10:41 well right now, but.
10:10:43 But the addition of alcoholic beverage is always going
10:10:47 to add some type of problems or adverse effects on the
10:10:50 neighborhood.
10:10:51 And as the last speaker said, there already is a
10:10:54 restaurant that serves alcoholic beverage within feet
10:10:58 of this establishment.
10:10:59 So the additional alcoholic beverage use could have

10:11:02 adverse effects.
10:11:04 We are supporting the church and USF in their
10:11:06 opposition, but I would like to say that if you did
10:11:09 decide to grant this permit to please consider
10:11:13 conditions such as mentioned, at the first public
10:11:18 hearing, a conditional use for one year, one-year
10:11:21 conditional, and midnight closing time if you are to
10:11:26 consider this, to give him this license.
10:11:29 Thank you.
10:11:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:11:35 >>> Good morning. I'm Walton Wells.
10:11:39 314 Lake Farrell, Lutz, Florida.
10:11:43 As a member of the Baptist church, I'm here to
10:11:46 represent the church.
10:11:47 And we do oppose this.
10:11:55 All of the needed elements it will attach to the
10:12:02 general area such as -- I'm sorry, offer nothing but
10:12:06 trouble to young people and is totally void of any
10:12:09 social redeeming value.
10:12:16 I have been a member in this location for 36 years.
10:12:18 It a quiet neighborhood.
10:12:20 When we moved there, had our building built.

10:12:25 I've seen it over the period of time, crime, and I
10:12:32 feel like this doesn't add anything to the area.
10:12:37 And I would ask you, if this establishment for some
10:12:45 reason didn't turn out well, he could sell and we
10:12:51 wouldn't know what the next person would want to put
10:12:53 in there.
10:12:54 Not only do we have three of the same establishment in
10:13:00 the area, in a three-mile area, of the university and
10:13:04 the church, so we are concerned about the health and
10:13:10 the welfare.
10:13:12 And we know when you have young people and you have
10:13:16 alcohol, we realize the problems, it will concur.
10:13:22 So, please, listen to our objection to this and please
10:13:30 do not grant this petition.
10:13:31 And we thank you very much.
10:13:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
10:13:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
10:13:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:13:42 (Motion carried).
10:13:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:13:44 >> Rebuttal?
10:13:46 >>> I just wanted to see if the applicant wanted an

10:13:49 opportunity for rebuttal.
10:13:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sorry about that.
10:13:54 >>> Thank you.
10:13:56 Manuel Franco, I'm the petitioner.
10:14:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to reopen.
10:14:02 My apologies.
10:14:03 >> Second.
10:14:04 (Motion carried).
10:14:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go ahead.
10:14:05 >>> I would like to emphasize again as I did the first
10:14:08 reading that my establishment is first and foremost a
10:14:13 hookah lounge and always will be, and clean,
10:14:16 comfortable, and well lit as hookah lounges go.
10:14:20 But a hookah lounge with the right atmosphere.
10:14:23 We are not creating some sort of college watering
10:14:26 hole.
10:14:26 We won't be doing the crazy drink specials and
10:14:28 encouraging binge drinking in any way, that it would
10:14:33 be inconsistent with our business plan as well as the
10:14:33 atmosphere we are creating in the lounge and generally
10:14:37 exists in hookah lounges.
10:14:40 No crazy drinking party, no wet T-shirt contests, none

10:14:45 of that kind of stuff.
10:14:48 As I noted again at the first reading of the petition,
10:14:52 patrons pay a cover charge to enter and they may have
10:14:55 to purchase their beverages on top of that at what
10:15:00 constituted above market prices for alcoholic
10:15:02 beverages.
10:15:03 So there's not going to be -- I don't think we are
10:15:07 going to be encouraging binge drinking in any way, and
10:15:10 I want to emphasize that.
10:15:12 And again, actually, we are not trying to create some
10:15:16 kind of college watering hole.
10:15:17 The fact is the first six months we were working on
10:15:21 this project we were actually not looking at the USF
10:15:23 area but we were looking here at downtown Tampa and
10:15:27 had submitted four letters of intent to lease space up
10:15:31 and down Franklin Street, but were unable to secure
10:15:35 the space.
10:15:37 In fact, what I'm hoping to do is be able to diversify
10:15:43 my customer base a little bit so I am not only
10:15:45 attracting college students but 20 and 30-somethings
10:15:48 hopefully, so that actually a month or two from now,
10:15:52 all the USF students would all still be able to pay

10:15:56 the rent, and so, again, this is not about creating
10:16:01 some, you know, wild and crazy place for college
10:16:04 students to go and get trashed.
10:16:09 I would also like to emphasize that I'm doing
10:16:11 everything the right way.
10:16:12 And not just to the letter but to the spirit of the
10:16:16 law, because actually that's the way I do things.
10:16:20 I don't do shades of gray.
10:16:22 When we started this project, I called the Department
10:16:24 of Health in Tallahassee and spoke to the chief
10:16:27 enforcement officer for the board of clean indoor air
10:16:31 act to mach sure I was full compliant and to address
10:16:34 any possible issues and get any pointers that they
10:16:38 might have.
10:16:39 I followed up with calls to the Tampa fire marshal to
10:16:42 address any concerns he might have to Tampa police, as
10:16:44 far as security.
10:16:46 I am doing everything, all along the way to do
10:16:50 everything the right way.
10:16:54 I started to reach out from early on to anybody that
10:16:58 might have an interest.
10:16:59 I'm surprised to hear that they submitted letters,

10:17:03 that's good, but I'm surprised to hear that USF has
10:17:06 now lodged concerns because I had spoken with their
10:17:11 legal affairs department, and clarified that they
10:17:15 wouldn't, but everyone is entitled to change their
10:17:19 minds.
10:17:19 But, in any case, we met all of our licensing
10:17:24 requirements and will always do so.
10:17:27 A couple of weeks we had a movie night, for instance,
10:17:32 and I made sure to secure the necessary performance
10:17:37 rights, licensing for the movies that we show.
10:17:42 We do everything.
10:17:43 And I make sure that I do everything so that it's
10:17:45 according to Hoyle.
10:17:47 And I always will.
10:17:55 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to ask a question.
10:17:56 Are you getting your sidewalk wet zoned, also?
10:17:59 >>> Actually, I clarified with our insurance carrier
10:18:05 that we could put tables and chairs out there, but we
10:18:11 don't at this time.
10:18:16 We have our storefront and, you know, the sidewalk in
10:18:20 front of us.
10:18:25 Actually it's the first time I actually thought about

10:18:28 that.
10:18:28 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: One other question to ask you.
10:18:31 Your hookah, is that going to be permitted inside
10:18:33 only, and not out on the sidewalk?
10:18:35 And the reason I say that, I recently sold a coffee
10:18:39 shop, and it has brought much, much distress to my
10:18:43 tenants and my employees, people from the shopping
10:18:48 center.
10:18:48 It's very offensive when you are walking into Publix
10:18:51 to go by that smoke.
10:18:55 I know it's legal to have, but it is offensive.
10:18:58 So do you intend to have it out on the sidewalk?
10:19:02 >>> At this point again, we don't have any seating
10:19:05 outside.
10:19:06 I asked the question of our insurance carrier if it
10:19:09 would be okay and they said it would be okay.
10:19:11 >> I think --
10:19:14 The city would have to answer that question.
10:19:16 You can't answer that.
10:19:17 City attorney, can you respond to his question,
10:19:19 please?
10:19:20 Whoever is handling the case?

10:19:22 >>ERIC COTTON: Land Development Coordination.
10:19:24 The property being considered for alcoholic beverages
10:19:28 does not include the outdoor area.
10:19:29 So if he wanted to do the outside area in front of the
10:19:32 establishment they have to come back to council with a
10:19:35 new petition to include that in there.
10:19:37 So right now the petition doesn't include the
10:19:40 alcoholic beverages for outside.
10:19:42 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: But you don't control the smoke
10:19:43 field goal they smoke outside on the sidewalk where
10:19:45 people walk by into the --
10:19:50 >>> No, sir.
10:19:51 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would be able to support it if
10:19:52 we have a condition there be no smoking on the
10:19:54 sidewalk.
10:19:55 >>> Actually, ironically, or maybe not ironically, I
10:19:59 don't know, again this is to the atmosphere in our
10:20:03 lounge.
10:20:03 But I don't --
10:20:08 Sir.
10:20:09 Let me hear from the attorney.
10:20:10 >>> As part of this special use criteria for allowing

10:20:16 alcoholic beverages, the issue of outdoor smoking is
10:20:18 not part of the criteria that you are allowed to link
10:20:21 the two.
10:20:27 Whatever feelings you might have towards that issue,
10:20:28 you are going to have to divorce yourself from that in
10:20:30 order to make a finding on the alcoholic beverage
10:20:34 special use.
10:20:41 >>> Keeping to the atmosphere that I'm creating in the
10:20:43 lounge, however, for a hookah lounge, we smoke in the
10:20:48 hookah lounge, but if someone wants to light a
10:20:51 cigarette or a cigar or something, then they have
10:20:54 to --
10:20:56 Thank you, sir, your time is up.
10:20:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
10:21:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
10:21:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:21:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:21:06 Okay.
10:21:06 What's the council's pleasure?
10:21:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, if I may, I have the
10:21:12 greatest admiration, although I don't know the person
10:21:17 personally, he seems sincere, honest, for the right, I

10:21:22 do have a concern regarding the -- if there was an
10:21:28 "R," I would support it.
10:21:29 It is not an "R."
10:21:33 It's 2(COP).
10:21:35 And the proximity of where we are located, the
10:21:40 activity of the area around there, and there's nothing
10:21:44 wrong with living there.
10:21:45 Let me say that first.
10:21:47 But I don't want to create another venue like we have
10:21:51 in other parts of the city that makes it almost
10:21:54 impossible.
10:21:54 And I'm not talking about his location per se, but the
10:22:00 possibilities of this, more of an effect on more and
10:22:05 more locations coming up that will do this.
10:22:08 I don't know what this council is going to do.
10:22:10 I know it was a 4-3 vote so I am going move for
10:22:14 denial.
10:22:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is there a second?
10:22:20 >> With no second it dies.
10:22:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Then I move for approval.
10:22:24 I don't want my approval to be considered an
10:22:27 endorsement of hookah smoking.

10:22:29 I just cut an article out of the paper for my kids to
10:22:32 read that says that smoking a hookah is like smoking a
10:22:37 carton of cigarettes which is pretty shocking, but
10:22:42 the neighborhood association has no problems with this
10:22:45 presentation and this request, so based on --
10:22:50 >> You have to read the ordinance.
10:22:52 It on the agenda.
10:22:53 Item 68.
10:22:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move an ordinance for second
10:23:01 reading and adoption, an ordinance approving a special
10:23:03 use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, small
10:23:06 venue, and making lawful the sale of beverages
10:23:09 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not
10:23:12 more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of
10:23:15 alcoholic content, beer and wine, 2(COP), for
10:23:18 consumption on premises and in sealed containers for
10:23:21 consumption off premises at or from that certain lot,
10:23:24 plot or tract ever land located at 5025 east Fowler
10:23:27 Avenue, suites 21 and 22, Tampa, Florida, as more
10:23:31 particularly described in section 2 hereof, approving
10:23:34 waivers as set forth herein, waiving certain
10:23:37 restrictions as to distance based upon certain

10:23:39 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
10:23:42 conflict, providing an effective date.
10:23:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:23:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I may speak to the motion.
10:23:49 Again I am not trying to change anyone's vote or mind.
10:23:51 Those things are already set in concrete.
10:23:53 Let me say that it is not the business that we are
10:23:57 zoning.
10:23:58 It is the land.
10:23:59 If this gentleman, hopefully not fail, but if he does
10:24:02 fail, then that land is available to 2(COP) and
10:24:06 anything else can go in other than a hookah.
10:24:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded by
10:24:11 Councilman Miranda.
10:24:14 Record your vote.
10:24:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I didn't second the motion.
10:24:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I mean councilman Dingfelder.
10:24:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We look so much alike.
10:24:22 We are like twins.
10:24:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
10:24:35 >>CLERK: According to the vote the motion carried with
10:24:37 Miranda and Scott voting no, and Mulhern being absent.

10:24:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, we go back to item number 1.
10:24:48 Legal wants to make a statement on the record about
10:24:50 item 1.
10:24:51 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
10:24:54 This is an amendment to the City of Tampa sign code
10:24:56 which is being presented at first reading.
10:24:59 It is presenting general clarifying language for some
10:25:03 of the changes which we made about a year and a half
10:25:05 ago, in our sign code.
10:25:08 I can go through all the changes.
10:25:10 I don't know if council had an opportunity to review
10:25:13 it.
10:25:13 Or I could just go ahead and move to the vote so that
10:25:16 we could have this go for second reading on public
10:25:18 hearing.
10:25:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?
10:25:20 Councilwoman Saul-Sena, then councilman Dingfelder.
10:25:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:25:24 I had an opportunity to be briefed by the legal
10:25:26 department and I feel like this just crisps up the
10:25:29 ordinance that we have, and anything we can do to make
10:25:31 our rules clearer and crisper is for the good so I

10:25:37 will be supporting this.
10:25:41 >>> If I may say I need to change between first and
10:25:44 second reading on page 2 I see there is an and which
10:25:47 is underlined in the middle of paragraph 20 which
10:25:49 should not be underlined so I will make that change
10:25:51 between first and second reading and present that to
10:25:53 the clerk for second reading.
10:25:54 Thank you.
10:25:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just to clarify, Julia, because
10:26:01 this does touch on the issue of electronics signs
10:26:10 which is highly controversial.
10:26:11 >>JULIA COLE: That's correct, clarifying of the
10:26:14 electronic signs on-site.
10:26:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
10:26:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Would this in any way make it
10:26:32 easier to bring on board since we are having
10:26:35 electronic signs on-site?
10:26:37 >>> This is simply for the purpose of clarifying
10:26:40 on-site electronic signs.
10:26:42 The on-site signs that could be electrified --
10:26:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: From the advice of the chairman I
10:27:01 am going to read this ordinance.

10:27:03 Ordinance presenting for first reading, an ordinance
10:27:05 of the city of Tampa, Florida making revisions of the
10:27:08 City of Tampa code of ordinances chapter 2.5, signs,
10:27:11 amending section 20.5-7 allowable signs permit, when
10:27:16 not required amending section 20.5-13, on-site signs,
10:27:23 permit required, amending section 20.5-16,
10:27:28 nonconforming signs, repealing all ordinances or parts
10:27:31 of ordinances in conflict therewith, providing for
10:27:34 severability, providing an effective date.
10:27:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:27:38 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:27:40 Opposes?
10:27:41 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.
10:27:43 Second reading and adoption will be on April 2nd
10:27:45 at 9:30.
10:27:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item number 2.
10:27:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll be glad to move the ordinance.
10:27:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena moved the
10:27:58 ordinance and councilman Dingfelder seconded it.
10:28:01 Do you wanted to read it?
10:28:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sure.
10:28:05 This is one of those straightforward encroachment

10:28:07 ordinances.
10:28:07 An ordinance authorizing the construction and erection
10:28:09 of a proposed encroachment, awning, by RRW architects,
10:28:15 AIA, Inc., over a portion of the public right-of-way
10:28:18 known as east Whiting Street, between South Tampa
10:28:20 street and Whiting Street, as more particularly
10:28:23 described herein, subject to certain terms, covenants,
10:28:26 conditions, and agreements as more particularly
10:28:28 described herein, providing an effective date.
10:28:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:28:35 All in favor say Aye.
10:28:38 Opposes?
10:28:38 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.
10:28:43 Second reading on April 2nd at 9:30.
10:28:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Committee reports.
10:28:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Move 2 through 7.
10:28:55 (Motion carried).
10:28:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Parks and recreation.
10:28:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to bring everyone's
10:29:00 attention to number 13 which is playgrounds put in by
10:29:05 kaboom.
10:29:06 I participated in creating a kaboom playground and

10:29:09 they are fabulous, they are colorful, and great, and
10:29:11 they are being donated to the city for the benefit of
10:29:13 our children.
10:29:14 So we are really fortunate to have that kaboom
10:29:16 playground.
10:29:17 Also, number 15 creating the river shoreline
10:29:24 restoration.
10:29:25 Every year we spend more money approving our shoreline
10:29:28 and it means we are not losing the oak trees next to
10:29:31 it and this is really, I think, a terrific investment
10:29:34 in the quality of our parks.
10:29:36 I would like to move resolutions 8 through 15.
10:29:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
10:29:42 (Motion carried)
10:29:44 Public works, councilman Charlie Miranda.
10:29:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move items 16 through 25.
10:29:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:29:52 (Motion carried).
10:29:55 Finance Committee.
10:29:57 Councilman Caetano.
10:29:58 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to move items 26 to
10:30:02 30.

10:30:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:30:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to comment on
10:30:07 something.
10:30:10 I would like to bring everybody's attention to item
10:30:12 28.
10:30:12 It pains me that we are spending $140,000 at Bob's
10:30:19 barricades just because we rent these things
10:30:21 continuously, and I see Mr. Spearman, our purchasing
10:30:26 person was in the audience, and I wonder as we move
10:30:29 into the future rather than renting these pieces of
10:30:33 equipment year after year after year, whether it would
10:30:35 make more sense, whether we have ever considered
10:30:37 purchasing them, used, possibly everyone from Bob's
10:30:40 barricades, then he would don't have to continue
10:30:43 paying a rental fee.
10:30:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Daignault is in the room, too,
10:30:48 if you need backup.
10:30:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It pains me.
10:30:53 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Mr. Daignault with K address it as
10:30:56 well but I not just renting of the Cohens but we also
10:30:59 contract with Bob's barricades to set these up at the
10:31:02 various intersections and take them down so it not

10:31:04 just the rental because they actually work with the
10:31:06 city in terms of special events to set the cones up,
10:31:10 take them down.
10:31:11 We also have an issue with storage of these cones
10:31:13 because we have no place to put them.
10:31:15 But they actually set the cones up at various
10:31:18 intersections.
10:31:19 Based upon instructions and directions by the police
10:31:22 department.
10:31:22 Then they come back and remove them after the event
10:31:24 has occurred.
10:31:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
10:31:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
10:31:28 (Motion carried).
10:31:31 Building and zoning.
10:31:32 Councilman Caetano.
10:31:39 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Move items 31 to 48.
10:31:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
10:31:49 (Motion carried).
10:31:50 Transportation, John Dingfelder.
10:31:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move 49 through 61.
10:31:55 >> Second.

10:31:57 >> Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:32:00 (Motion carried)
10:32:05 62.
10:32:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move item 62 requesting the
10:32:14 legal department to prepare a resolution.
10:32:16 >> Second.
10:32:16 (Motion carried).
10:32:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 63.
10:32:23 Set for public hearing.
10:32:30 Item 63 set for public hearing.
10:32:31 >> So moved.
10:32:36 >> Second.
10:32:37 >> Okay.
10:32:41 What I would like to go to now is the staff reports.
10:32:44 So what I would like to do is pick up item 73 and 75,
10:32:52 and then do item 74.
10:33:11 >>> Jan McLean, city attorney's office for item 73.
10:33:16 As you have before you, I have distributed a
10:33:17 memorandum and some proposed revisions to our
10:33:20 ordinance, code sections 26-26 and 26-74, to better
10:33:28 clarify what the process is for the submittal of an
10:33:32 application review, inclusion of the fees, and the

10:33:36 time frames on which all of these need to be submitted
10:33:40 for the water department to take action for water
10:33:42 service connection.
10:33:44 This came up as an issue previously with regard to
10:33:49 clarification that folks needed as to what needs to be
10:33:52 followed up after the submittal of an application, and
10:33:55 hopefully this will address that issue.
10:33:58 Upon your approval, we will enter it into the normal
10:34:01 ordinance adoption revision process.
10:34:04 Would you like me to go through it?
10:34:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Jan, am I right in saying this is
10:34:12 the one that says you shall apply for a meter?
10:34:15 But it never says you shall apply and install a meter?
10:34:21 >>> That's right.
10:34:21 Previously it had said that you shall submit an
10:34:25 application for water service and that's all that it
10:34:27 did.
10:34:27 What the proposal is in front of you mirrors the
10:34:30 actual process of submitting an application.
10:34:33 The fees, the supporting documentation, the review by
10:34:37 the department, a 30-day window for which you must
10:34:40 submit all the information, and then the city can take

10:34:42 action.
10:34:43 So that you have that detail in your code.
10:34:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think that's a step in the right
10:34:49 direction because the code is now vague, says shall
10:34:54 apply but doesn't say you install.
10:34:57 So you can apply and not install and use your
10:35:00 neighbor's water, then we have a problem.
10:35:02 >>> With your approval and motion, we will begin the
10:35:08 ordinance revision process.
10:35:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved by councilman Miranda, seconded
10:35:12 by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:35:15 All in favor say Aye.
10:35:17 Opposes?
10:35:19 >>> Thank you, sir.
10:35:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 75.
10:35:21 And 75 is going to address the emergency water
10:35:24 ordinance as well?
10:35:27 >> Yes.
10:35:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
10:35:32 >>BRAD BAIRD: Tampa water department.
10:35:34 First off, I'll start with the big picture associated
10:35:38 with the drought, as I did last time.

10:35:52 What you're seeing is a map of Tampa showing the
10:35:54 drought indexes, across Florida.
10:35:58 You can see it continues to worsen, that Hillsborough
10:36:04 County is shown in dark red, an index of over 650.
10:36:10 This measures the dryness of the soil, the moisture in
10:36:13 the soil.
10:36:14 And, in fact, the entire peninsula is in a severe
10:36:19 drought.
10:36:28 I talked to you last time about the Tampa Bay water
10:36:30 reservoir, and where we are, in the regional
10:36:33 perspective.
10:36:34 The Tampa Bay water reservoir was in effect empty on
10:36:39 March 11th, and the Tampa Bay water surface water
10:36:43 plant was shut down on March 12th.
10:36:46 The Tampa Bay water desalination plant is currently
10:36:49 producing 15 million gallons a day.
10:36:52 The remainder of their supply is coming from
10:36:55 groundwater.
10:36:56 The Wellfields in Pasco and Hillsborough Counties.
10:37:01 Now let's focus on Tampa.
10:37:05 The current demands last week, watering days, 86
10:37:09 million gallons a day, nonwatering days 72 million

10:37:14 gallons a day so a difference of 14 million gallons a
10:37:17 day from a watering day to a nonwatering day.
10:37:22 The current supply to meet those demands, if you add
10:37:25 them all up, there's several different sources, river
10:37:29 flow, aquifer storage and recovery, the Tampa bypass
10:37:32 canal, Sulphur Springs, and then finished waters that
10:37:36 we buy from Tampa Bay water.
10:37:40 The supply from all of those sources totals to about
10:37:43 83 million gallons per day.
10:37:46 Not including evaporation.
10:37:49 And so the water scored in the Hillsborough River
10:37:54 reservoir makes up that difference
10:38:00 And makes up the -- we draw from storage to make up
10:38:04 the difference between supply and demand.
10:38:07 So here's a picture, a graph of the reservoir
10:38:10 currently.
10:38:12 We are exactly half full.
10:38:14 Exactly half full.
10:38:18 Rather than half empty.
10:38:19 The top two and a half feet, as I said last time, the
10:38:25 top two and a half feet of the reservoir amounts to
10:38:27 half of the volume.

10:38:29 So we have half of the volume of water left, roughly
10:38:32 600 million gallons of water.
10:38:37 So our challenge is to keep enough water in storage to
10:38:45 make it through the dry season.
10:38:49 The next graph I am going to show is key to doing
10:38:52 that.
10:39:08 This is the last time we had a severe drought.
10:39:10 The line in red is the actual 2000 drought.
10:39:13 The actual levels of the reservoir are on the left
10:39:15 hand axes.
10:39:19 And then time is across the bottom showing the dry
10:39:22 season.
10:39:24 The slope line is the line, the level of the reservoir
10:39:28 that we would like to stay -- keep at or above through
10:39:33 the dry season to make it total end, or June 15th.
10:39:38 Our overall strategy typically is to start the dry
10:39:45 season with a full reservoir.
10:39:46 We started this year about two feet low, or a little
10:39:51 over half full.
10:39:54 And then that will give us 10 million gallons a day
10:39:58 for 100 days to make up that difference, between
10:40:02 demand and supply.

10:40:07 But we started in a deficit so that's an indicator
10:40:11 that is of concern.
10:40:14 The next that I want to talk about is, unfortunately,
10:40:17 this drought may become the worst on record, as we are
10:40:23 looking at the Hillsborough River flows.
10:40:27 They are currently at 22 million gallons a day.
10:40:30 That's one of the five sources I listed earlier.
10:40:33 The worst on record was 14 million gallons a day flow
10:40:36 on June 23rd, 2000.
10:40:41 So in the previous drought.
10:40:42 So we are closing in on the worst on record but here's
10:40:45 the difference.
10:40:46 The flow on June 23rd of 2000 southbound at the
10:40:52 end of a dry season.
10:40:53 We are at the beginning of the dry season.
10:40:55 So that's scary to see extremely low flows at the
10:41:01 beginning of the dry season.
10:41:04 Finally, I would like to put in a little commercial
10:41:07 here, if I may.
10:41:13 It's extremely important for citizens to conserve
10:41:15 water in any way you can.
10:41:17 Check toilets for leaks, take shorter showers, don't

10:41:20 water your landscape when it's about to rain.
10:41:24 We have over 100 tips on our web site.
10:41:28 Tampagov.net/save water will get you right there.
10:41:35 If you see someone violating the current ordinance,
10:41:42 please call our water violations hotline, 274-8036.
10:41:47 If by all means you are in a reclaimed water area,
10:41:52 please, now is the time to hook up.
10:41:56 Contact -- our number is 282-star.
10:42:00 Finally, if you see leaking pipes, leaking hydrants,
10:42:05 leaking meter boxes, any water running down the
10:42:08 street, call our emergency line, and we'll get to it
10:42:13 as fast as we can.
10:42:15 That number is 274-8121.
10:42:18 And with that
10:42:22 I would like to turn it over to Steve Daignault to
10:42:26 walk through the water conservation proposal that we
10:42:28 have for you today, for additional restrictions to get
10:42:32 us through these difficult times.
10:42:42 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Public works and utility services.
10:42:46 Evaluating the water situation, we look at a lot of
10:42:49 factors, flow down the river, the level of our
10:42:52 reservoir, demand on our system, the weather, then we

10:42:57 look at our backup.
10:42:58 Our backup is to buy water from Tampa Bay water.
10:43:01 Their reservoir is empty.
10:43:03 Their surface water treatment plant is shut down.
10:43:07 Their desal plant is operating at 15 million gallons a
10:43:10 day with one inoperative at this moment.
10:43:15 So based on all of those factors and the water,
10:43:18 current water use condition, and the water
10:43:20 availability situation, we are recommending increased
10:43:24 restrictions on the use of potable water.
10:43:28 I have handed out to you and made available to the
10:43:32 folks in the press if they would like it again a
10:43:43 phased approach.
10:43:43 If you look on the left side, this phase one would be
10:43:48 currently people can irrigate once a week, Tuesday for
10:43:57 even addresses and Sunday for odd addresses, addresses
10:44:02 ending in an odd number.
10:44:04 We would proposal they do that instead of once a week,
10:44:08 twice a month, which would be the first and third
10:44:10 Tuesday and the thirst and third Sunday.
10:44:15 You will also see on there that irrigation for
10:44:18 establishment of new turf and landscaping would be

10:44:20 scheduled to remain the same as the current ordinance.
10:44:25 Moving on, we want to impose the same restrictions on
10:44:28 the city, we don't want to be bringing in new sod and
10:44:33 landscaping, we want to comply with those restrictions
10:44:36 ourselves.
10:44:37 All current variances would have to be rescinded
10:44:40 because they involve more frequent watering than what
10:44:43 we are proposing here.
10:44:45 The fountain use and operation would remain just the
10:44:49 same way it is currently.
10:44:51 And then some on the things that we would do is
10:44:53 request voluntary compliance.
10:44:55 You realize we have customers, water service customers
10:44:58 that are outside the city limits and the county, so we
10:45:01 will be contacting the county and asking for
10:45:03 compliance by those water users.
10:45:05 And then we'll investigate opportunities for water
10:45:08 conservation with other large users, nonresidential
10:45:12 users like MacDill Air Force Base, and commercial
10:45:14 industrial users.
10:45:16 And as always, anybody on reclaimed is exempt from
10:45:20 these conditions and these restrictions.

10:45:25 Moving over to phase two, phase two would be
10:45:28 irrigation of turf by hand watering only, and
10:45:33 irrigation of landscaping, and by use of hand watering
10:45:38 and microirrigation only.
10:45:41 Again, same days of the week and hours as currently
10:45:44 exist.
10:45:45 And then for establishing new turf and irrigation.
10:45:50 Again we would ask that be done by hand watering.
10:45:53 The items below the line for the phase two are the
10:45:57 same as on both sides.
10:45:59 So those would be our recommendations to you today,
10:46:04 and Jan McLean does have the ordinance available to
10:46:08 deal with each of these.
10:46:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
10:46:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:46:18 This is a very, very serious situation, because it
10:46:20 concerns public health.
10:46:23 And public welfare.
10:46:25 And the city certainly has taken some steps here to
10:46:28 make some adjustments and corrections to the problem
10:46:30 that we have and address it firsthand.
10:46:41 When Mr. Baird spoke about the wellfield being half

10:46:46 full, half empty, already this week we went from 11
10:46:49 million gallons of watering days to 14 million gallons
10:46:52 of watering.
10:46:53 If my mind remembers, in April and May, close to 15
10:46:58 million gallons on Tuesdays, additional, and 15
10:47:01 million gallons additional on Sundays.
10:47:04 So we have all of April and May, both of those months
10:47:09 go to 15, and two weeks in June.
10:47:11 And who is going to predict that it going to rain on
10:47:14 June 15th?
10:47:15 I certainly can't do that.
10:47:16 So you have ten weeks.
10:47:18 And if we have ten weeks at 30 million gallons a week,
10:47:24 you are using 300 million gallons of water.
10:47:28 That equates to half of what the reservoir will have
10:47:32 then.
10:47:33 The reservoir is only at 1.2 billion gallons, and we
10:47:36 have been using the ASR wells also to supply.
10:47:45 Buying sometimes 29 to 30 million gallons of water
10:47:48 from Tampa Bay water.
10:47:50 Our plant -- and I am going to need some correction
10:47:54 here -- is not set up to take any other water other

10:47:57 than what we have now.
10:48:01 So many connections not complete.
10:48:02 We have to get permission to drain other areas a
10:48:07 little lower, and we have a problem.
10:48:11 The situation that we have all of us working together,
10:48:15 we could solve this problem through all the citizens.
10:48:18 And it was well said that of the 630 or 40,000
10:48:23 customers that we have, some of them are not in our
10:48:26 jurisdiction so it will take a concerted effort from
10:48:28 the administration and us to ask the other member
10:48:31 governments to ask those individuals and for them to
10:48:37 patrol and do the same citation that we do to our own
10:48:41 customers in the city.
10:48:42 This is not us versus them, them versus us.
10:48:44 This is all in the same boat.
10:48:47 What we are saying is that the situation is not going
10:48:52 to get better.
10:48:53 If anything -- I don't mean to be a gloomy individual
10:48:56 but I'm telling you the facts.
10:48:58 For months I have been talking about this and I said
10:49:00 in February or March, this is going to happen.
10:49:03 I didn't want to be correct.

10:49:05 For months I have been turning in my water bill, not
10:49:07 because I want to make someone look bad, because I
10:49:10 wanted to get the focus on water.
10:49:12 That didn't work too well.
10:49:14 As you well know, for months, I also dressed in black.
10:49:18 That didn't work too well either.
10:49:21 The public has to have a crisis come up before they
10:49:26 understand the need for something to happen, and the
10:49:29 crisis arrived.
10:49:31 We have a water shortage, and a public crisis because
10:49:35 the public is the one that's using the water.
10:49:37 I certainly don't want to see anyone with a large
10:49:40 beautiful lawn in big, big lot or land or plot of land
10:49:45 lose any of that.
10:49:45 I also don't want to see us do.
10:49:52 That myself, I don't care if I have a lawn or not.
10:49:56 It turns green when it rains and it turns brown when
10:50:00 it doesn't.
10:50:00 It doesn't bother me at all.
10:50:02 Once in a while I water the plants when they say, come
10:50:04 on, cheapo, give me some water, and I give them a
10:50:07 little water.

10:50:07 But what I am saying is, these things have got to be
10:50:11 addressed.
10:50:12 And I believe phase two.
10:50:17 However, I also believe that a government has a
10:50:20 responsibility to have the foresight to change things
10:50:22 as we progress, and there's a lot of construction
10:50:26 equipment, there's a lot of construction water trucks
10:50:29 out there that are dormant today.
10:50:31 We have one or two that may be used for a little
10:50:34 longer, but those construction trucks, the numbers
10:50:39 that Mr. Baird gave us, can certainly call up and sign
10:50:42 up for reclaimed.
10:50:43 You see, reclaimed was made for us to have 6 or 7,000
10:50:48 people hooked up.
10:50:48 We are at 50%.
10:50:50 So the water truck would say who call, where to call,
10:50:55 and how to call and get hooked up.
10:50:57 You get agent bit more enthusiasm and customers in
10:51:00 your base.
10:51:01 And even if they are not in the area, and it's going
10:51:04 to be in the future expansion of reclaimed, you can
10:51:07 have another list that would give you a base of

10:51:09 customers.
10:51:10 We made a mistake, but I won't make two mistakes.
10:51:14 Let me tell what you that second mistake won't be.
10:51:17 If we put in reclaimed loins and spend hundreds of
10:51:20 millions of dollars, it's not going to be I'll sign up
10:51:23 when I want to.
10:51:25 You are going to sign up or you are not getting
10:51:27 reclaimed, period.
10:51:28 I'm not spending public taxpayers money.
10:51:31 This is not AIG.
10:51:32 We are going to put the line in, and you are going to
10:51:35 have the reclaimed.
10:51:37 And if you want to use it, it's there, but you will
10:51:41 hook up.
10:51:41 I am not going to spend public money on something
10:51:43 that's not going to be used.
10:51:45 And I'm not blaming anyone.
10:51:46 These are facts.
10:51:48 But I think if we could coordinate with the
10:51:50 administration to get these vehicles on the road, I
10:51:54 think that the lawns and these things for a period of
10:51:58 10 to 12 weeks can be done effectively.

10:52:00 You don't have to go all the way to hooker point to
10:52:02 get your reclaimed.
10:52:03 There's two or three areas in the city where you can
10:52:05 fill up, and the administration, I think, is willing
10:52:10 to make such adjustments.
10:52:12 I hope they are.
10:52:13 So that we can facilitate all of us.
10:52:16 And what happens?
10:52:19 They say, well, you want to help those that have.
10:52:22 No, I don't.
10:52:23 I don't.
10:52:24 Way want to have is for everybody to have livable
10:52:27 amount of water to drink and live.
10:52:30 We have been so used to these things, we have been
10:52:33 spoiled in America.
10:52:36 You don't have to get in line to get gas.
10:52:38 When it was four dollars.
10:52:40 People still use gas.
10:52:41 You have water to take a shower.
10:52:44 Leave it on for 15, 20 minutes.
10:52:46 You don't get any cleaner than you do in the four
10:52:48 minutes.

10:52:49 But that's the way we are.
10:52:53 We leave the sprinklers on overnight sometimes.
10:52:58 I drive the city sometimes and I see sprinklers in
10:53:02 rain, and the sprinklers are still on.
10:53:05 We are used to abusing everything we have.
10:53:09 And we have to change the way we think during these
10:53:15 times of crisis and the whole life really.
10:53:17 It is incumbent upon this government to take the lead
10:53:20 to show.
10:53:21 And let me tell you why.
10:53:22 Out of the 2.4 million people that heir serviced in
10:53:26 Pasco, Pinellas an Hillsborough County the City of
10:53:29 Tampa does about 25% without a reservoir of any size,
10:53:36 without decel and without other things.
10:53:40 We don't have big wells anymore.
10:53:43 We have ASR windy, 2 billion, take it out and treat it
10:53:50 again for redistribution purposes but those things are
10:53:52 going dry.
10:53:52 So I'm asking the public to please conserve.
10:53:56 And I think I would go with phase two but I'll let the
10:54:00 rest of the council members give the direction.
10:54:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

10:54:03 Councilman Dingfelder.
10:54:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Steve, I have a couple of
10:54:07 questions.
10:54:09 Based upon this, because I know this is just coming
10:54:13 out yesterday, and I'm sure it's in the process of
10:54:15 sort of being refined.
10:54:19 But the bottom phase one and two, says effective date
10:54:23 April 3rd, for both of them.
10:54:26 Now, I guess what you are saying is you are going to
10:54:28 bring an ordinance to us theoretically April 2nd.
10:54:33 An ordinance today.
10:54:36 We have the ordinance today?
10:54:38 Well, I can't approve an ordinance that I. Read.
10:54:44 Hand out an ordinance, let's read it, number one.
10:54:46 I was told yesterday that the ordinance was coming to
10:54:48 us in a week or two.
10:54:51 So that's question number one.
10:54:54 Number two is because there's been very little
10:54:58 opportunity for breathing on this you have both of
10:55:01 these effective April 3rd.
10:55:03 Do you want to explain that?
10:55:05 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Well, if you went with phase one it

10:55:08 would be effective April 3rd.
10:55:10 If you went with phase two it would be effective April
10:55:13 3rd.
10:55:13 We are just trying to get some type for people to be
10:55:16 notified, get some information out there.
10:55:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Isn't there an opportunity -- the
10:55:25 way it was explained to me yesterday, the way I
10:55:27 understood it, isn't there an opportunity for us to
10:55:32 give the mayor the authority to enter into phase one
10:55:37 preliminarily, and if she and you and Brad as the
10:55:42 experts conclude that we need to enter into phase two,
10:55:47 you already have this authority from council.
10:55:49 I think that that would be the better approach.
10:55:53 You know, that we would -- we would delegate that
10:55:56 authority to the mayor and say, you know, here is
10:56:01 phase one authority, here is phase two authority.
10:56:04 Madam Mayor, when you believe that it's appropriate
10:56:08 that we need to go into phase one, you have that
10:56:12 authority to go for it.
10:56:13 And when you believe it's appropriate to go into phase
10:56:16 two, that you have that authority to go for it.
10:56:20 Because I commend the mayor on her leadership to raise

10:56:24 this issue today, and to you and Brad as well, because
10:56:28 this is a highly controversial issue.
10:56:31 And we are already receiving, you know, some folks who
10:56:35 are balking about it.
10:56:37 But that doesn't matter, because as Charlie indicated
10:56:40 and the rest of council will indicate, potable water,
10:56:44 drinking water, water to bathe in, water to wash our
10:56:48 clothes and our dishes, is the public health issue.
10:56:53 And it has to take priority over watering our yards.
10:57:02 So, you know, I would be more amenable instead of
10:57:07 council making that decision today, I would be more
10:57:09 amenable to us looking at the ordinance, perhaps
10:57:13 having a chance to read it and study it until this
10:57:20 afternoon, but would like the ordinance modified to
10:57:23 delegate both of those phases to the mayor.
10:57:26 And then when the mayor has the opportunity to make
10:57:27 that decision, she can do that, as the administrator.
10:57:34 So that's a suggestion.
10:57:39 A little side note.
10:57:40 And, Charlie, you alluded to this as well.
10:57:44 We talked about this in the past.
10:57:45 And Brad, I might need your help on this as well.

10:57:48 What personal of our potential reclaimed water
10:57:51 customers are now hooked up?
10:57:55 In other words, of all the houses that we have
10:57:56 reclaimed pipe in front of in South Tampa, what
10:58:00 percentage are hooked up?
10:58:05 >>BRAD BAIRD: We have 3100 homes hooked up, and for
10:58:11 approximately 8900 potential customers.
10:58:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Whoa.
10:58:19 >>> We have 5300 sign up in the original campaign.
10:58:23 So we are over 50% of the folks that signed up.
10:58:27 The remainder for the most part do not have irrigation
10:58:29 systems, it would be a hose bib, hand watering their
10:58:35 plants.
10:58:36 So the percent is roughly 40% total, if I did my math
10:58:41 right there.
10:58:44 Of the potential, right.
10:58:46 >> And many of those homes do have irrigation system,
10:58:50 they are just using potable water.
10:58:53 >>> Some still do, that's correct.
10:58:54 >> I suggested a long time ago -- and frankly, I think
10:58:58 we need to move on this -- that we give those folks a
10:59:04 specific time period.

10:59:05 And now I am going to shorten it.
10:59:08 Previously I said two or three years.
10:59:09 I think we need to give them one year, okay, to sign
10:59:12 up; if they have a sprinkler system, an irrigation
10:59:15 system, and they have reclaimed water, purple pipe
10:59:17 right out there in their street, then I think we
10:59:20 should adopt another ordinance that says you have one
10:59:24 year from today to get that hooked up, or a year from
10:59:27 now we are not going to allow you to use potable
10:59:30 water, and throw it out on your yard and half of it
10:59:33 ends up going down the curb and the gutter and out
10:59:35 into the bay.
10:59:36 I think the time has come, we talked about it earlier,
10:59:39 but it wasn't pressing.
10:59:41 We are adopting some extremely pressing ordinances
10:59:45 today, and I think that we need to revisit that sooner
10:59:50 than later.
10:59:52 My last question -- and thank you, Mr. Chairman, for
10:59:55 your indulgence -- on number 6 on both columns.
10:59:59 Number 6 says request voluntary compliance from
11:00:02 customers in the county.
11:00:04 More than half of our city water customers somewhere

11:00:10 in that neighborhood are in the county?
11:00:13 >> 40%.
11:00:18 40%?
11:00:19 25%.
11:00:19 A lot of customers anyway.
11:00:21 So 25% of our customers in the city water usage is out
11:00:26 in the county.
11:00:30 I'm going to assume that there's been some legal
11:00:32 conclusion that we can't go out and send our water
11:00:34 cops out there to do that.
11:00:38 Is that correct?
11:00:42 >>> Jan McLean.
11:00:44 Yes, sir, we don't have jurisdiction to enforce there
11:00:46 but we have requested in the past their assistance and
11:00:48 these what we are asking now to request.
11:00:53 Your current ordinance had and this one actually
11:00:58 delegates to the county the ability to enforce our
11:01:00 restrictions in their area.
11:01:01 >> Okay, what has the response been from the county
11:01:04 when we politely asked them that in the past to
11:01:07 enforce those regulations?
11:01:10 >>> I don't have those figures.

11:01:11 I believe that they are enforcing their restrictions
11:01:15 in that part of the county.
11:01:17 I couldn't say for sure.
11:01:20 >> Brad, could you help us? I'm not looking to start
11:01:23 a fight but we all have a problem.
11:01:24 >>> County water resources, they enforce their
11:01:29 restrictions, in our service area, outside the city
11:01:35 limits.
11:01:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
11:01:39 Steve, I think another thing that we need to revisit
11:01:41 is this issue.
11:01:46 I think we need to revisit this issue.
11:01:49 That doesn't mean we are going to jump out there and
11:01:51 enforce it because the legal department says we can't
11:01:53 but I think we need to revisit it in the form of the
11:01:56 interlocal agreement that we have with the county to
11:01:57 supply those parts of the county with the city's
11:01:59 water.
11:02:01 And we won't get into all the city water, county
11:02:04 water, everything else that we talked about in the
11:02:06 past, but I think again, as Charlie said, it's a
11:02:09 matter of fairness.

11:02:10 You know, just because somebody lives, you know, up
11:02:13 there in Drew Park, let say, okay, they have to abide
11:02:17 by the city regulations and these are going to be very
11:02:21 strict regulations.
11:02:22 Five blocks away, they have a cousin who lives in town
11:02:25 and country who is also on the same city water, okay,
11:02:28 and they can abide by the county regulations.
11:02:31 It doesn't make sense.
11:02:32 So I think that with the mayor and with your running
11:02:38 this down the street to the county, we have got to
11:02:40 revisit that interlocal agreement to make sure that we
11:02:44 have the ability to have consistency in enforcement
11:02:48 with all of our city water customers.
11:02:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano?
11:02:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to be able to --
11:03:03 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Brad, we talked yesterday about
11:03:04 the microirrigation.
11:03:08 Did you get the letter that I forwarded to you from
11:03:10 the Tampa Palms community development district?
11:03:15 >>> No, I'm sorry, I did not.
11:03:17 >> I sent it late last night and I know you worked
11:03:20 late yesterday.

11:03:22 They are asking can we use our ponds and our wells to
11:03:24 supplement the watering?
11:03:29 >>BRAD BAIRD: The ponds and the wells would be subject
11:03:32 to the same water restriction that is we are proposing
11:03:36 today.
11:03:38 I believe that's true.
11:03:39 Maybe Jan can shed more light on that.
11:03:41 >> So they cannot use those ponds or wells?
11:03:43 >>> They can, but they need to be in accordance with
11:03:45 the restrictions that are proposed, or currently in
11:03:49 place.
11:03:49 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The irrigations that they do have
11:03:53 now watering the plants that we talked about
11:03:55 yesterday, they are going to put micro in all of
11:03:59 those, so they won't waste a lot of water.
11:04:02 How aggressive are we in bringing reclaimed water?
11:04:05 I know I talked to Mr. Daignault about talking to
11:04:08 Pasco County to bring in the northern part of my
11:04:12 district.
11:04:14 Is there any headway on that?
11:04:17 >>> Yes.
11:04:18 We are currently in the process of working on a master

11:04:23 plan, and that is one of the considerations as part of
11:04:26 that plan.
11:04:29 To look at going north.
11:04:35 The plan should come out in the next couple of months,
11:04:38 and we'll be able to brief you on it at that time.
11:04:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I think we need to be more
11:04:48 aggressive because we are throwing a lot of water in
11:04:50 the bay that could be going on the lawns instead of in
11:04:53 the bay and that's what we need to do.
11:04:56 Thank you.
11:04:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me -- I wish I had all of the
11:05:01 council here so they could hear all of our remarks.
11:05:06 Let me just say from my position, council, I agree
11:05:18 with council Miranda that we should go into the second
11:05:21 phase.
11:05:21 Let me just tell you why.
11:05:24 You are already at crisis level.
11:05:26 It is not going to get any better.
11:05:29 We have been told already that your backup plan is
11:05:33 already -- is already failed, is failing, right?
11:05:41 Your backup plan is not going to work.
11:05:46 Before you even implement it, you already know that

11:05:47 you can't implement it.
11:05:49 So, therefore, why not move on to phase two so you can
11:05:56 work on this issue of conservation, saving water?
11:05:59 We know, we know that we are in the dryest part of the
11:06:02 season.
11:06:05 It is not going to get better.
11:06:06 It is going to get worse before it gets better.
11:06:09 Councilman Miranda, you are absolutely right.
11:06:11 I know we don't like to be prophets of doom, but the
11:06:14 facts are there.
11:06:15 So why not go ahead now and pass this ordinance today
11:06:20 so that you can go ahead and implement that?
11:06:22 That's number one.
11:06:23 Number two, I agree with councilman Dingfelder about
11:06:27 the county.
11:06:29 However, it takes two to agree in an interlocal
11:06:36 agreement.
11:06:36 And at this point, I think that if the administration
11:06:40 will approach the county, say here we are, you are at
11:06:45 the same place, will you help us help our community?
11:06:49 Because this is a public safety issue.
11:06:51 I think you lay the facts out to them, and the

11:06:56 relationship that we have, because the relationship
11:06:58 has improved with the board of county commission, over
11:07:00 the last several years, is that right? So, therefore,
11:07:03 I think it will be a good discussion, a healthy
11:07:06 discussion if we pursue that avenue now and not wait
11:07:11 for an interlocal agreement.
11:07:13 So I would encourage the administration, I would
11:07:15 encourage council today to vote on first phase two.
11:07:19 Secondly, I would encourage the administration to
11:07:23 approach the county board or the administration or the
11:07:25 county and encourage them to enforce the water
11:07:27 restrictions that will be passed by this board.
11:07:32 In the interest of the total community.
11:07:34 We have to understand this is not just a City of Tampa
11:07:37 issue.
11:07:37 This is a Hillsborough County issue.
11:07:39 This is a regional issue, okay?
11:07:41 All of the counties are affected by this issue.
11:07:43 So it's not just the City of Tampa issue.
11:07:46 It's a Tampa Bay region issue.
11:07:48 So with our working together as partners, I believe
11:07:52 that we can get through this crisis that we are in.

11:07:56 So that's my position.
11:07:57 Councilwoman.
11:08:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do you know what percentage of our
11:08:08 county water users are industrial users?
11:08:11 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I tried to get that answer.
11:08:16 >>> It's safe to say it's under five percent, are
11:08:21 industrial users.
11:08:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If there were an office park or
11:08:24 industrial use that had a large lawn area around it,
11:08:29 would they be forced to adhere to the same
11:08:32 restrictions that we are imposing on residential uses?
11:08:38 >>> What you described would be considered under our
11:08:41 commercial class, but, yes, they would be subject to
11:08:43 the same restrictions.
11:08:48 >> So the restriction that is we are putting on
11:08:50 homeowners would be shared across the board by all
11:08:55 property owners in this city, whether they are
11:08:57 industrial or commercial or residential?
11:09:01 >>> Yes.
11:09:02 >> I think that's very important for that to be across
11:09:05 the board.
11:09:06 Then I want to revisit the question of reclaimed

11:09:09 water.
11:09:10 I believe I understood that we are taking reclaimed
11:09:13 down Bayshore.
11:09:14 Is that correct?
11:09:14 >>> Right.
11:09:15 That is proposed for a line to be built down Bayshore
11:09:21 Boulevard.
11:09:22 I'm sorry?
11:09:22 >> What is the time frame?
11:09:24 >>> I don't have that here, but I can get that for
11:09:27 you.
11:09:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It would seem to me that's a very
11:09:30 responsible thing to do, because we use a lot of water
11:09:33 on Bayshore, but that we should also extend it to the
11:09:36 residential property owners on the side of Bayshore,
11:09:40 because obviously some of them are using a lot of
11:09:42 water on their yards, and it would be better for us if
11:09:45 it were reclaimed rather than potable water.
11:09:48 I would hope that that would be part of our planning.
11:09:51 I also understand from the people along Courtney
11:09:55 Campbell that while we are extending lines, we propose
11:09:58 to extend reclaimed lines to the airport, we are not

11:10:01 extending them across the street to the golf course.
11:10:07 That doesn't make any sense.
11:10:08 I think -- I mean, please tell me I'm wrong.
11:10:12 But it seems to me that golf courses are obviously
11:10:16 places that should use reclaimed water.
11:10:19 And I would hope that in all our planning as we move
11:10:22 forward for reclaimed that we expand our reclaimed
11:10:26 towards golf courses.
11:10:27 Could you share that with us?
11:10:29 >>> Yes.
11:10:30 Actually, we have a dry line in place that we
11:10:36 installed in the last couple of years, along that
11:10:40 corridor that goes up to the Rocky Point area, and the
11:10:44 area, the Hyatt complex actually.
11:10:52 And it terms nature, not very far from there, and we
11:10:56 are in current discussions with rocky pointed.
11:11:00 They are on wells.
11:11:03 They are on shallow wells watering the golf course
11:11:06 with shallow wells.
11:11:08 The water quality is deteriorating, as it's close to
11:11:11 the bay, and reclaimed becomes a much better option
11:11:15 than it was even five years ago.

11:11:18 So we are pursuing that.
11:11:21 And I think in the next decade you will see that
11:11:23 become a reality.
11:11:25 >> The next decade?
11:11:26 >>> The next few years.
11:11:28 >> I would really encourage us to be aggressively
11:11:30 cooperative in terms of making those lines available.
11:11:34 And I think that Mr. Dingfelder's suggestion that we
11:11:37 mandate the people who have reclaimed going by their
11:11:42 homes hook up to it, is a very excellent suggestion.
11:11:49 And I want to compliment Mr. Miranda on his active
11:11:52 leadership in bringing the severity of the situation
11:11:55 to all of our attention.
11:11:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Miller, and councilman
11:12:01 Miranda.
11:12:02 >>GWEN MILLER: My question is, who bills the citizens
11:12:05 in the county?
11:12:06 Do we bill them or the county?
11:12:08 >>> We bill them.
11:12:10 The City of Tampa bills those residents.
11:12:13 >>GWEN MILLER: I don't know why we don't tell them the
11:12:15 days they should water.

11:12:17 >>BRAD BAIRD: It's not under our jurisdiction as part
11:12:22 of the interlocal agreement.
11:12:27 You know, we can ask them to enforce the restrictions,
11:12:32 as Mr. Daignault said earlier, and we will do that.
11:12:37 >> I think the citizens know just as well as Mr.
11:12:39 Miranda the problem we have with the water.
11:12:41 And I don't think they will complain if we two to
11:12:44 phase two.
11:12:44 They know that we need water for health, safety, and
11:12:49 the lawns are not important to health, safety, and I
11:12:54 think they want to us do something because they want
11:12:56 water.
11:12:56 Most people want to drink and bathe and be able to
11:12:59 cook with water, and that's the most important thing I
11:13:01 think to the citizens.
11:13:03 But need to do something immediately to find out how
11:13:07 we can reserve this water, drought we have.
11:13:10 So I think that phase two will be the best phase for
11:13:14 us and I don't think we have a problem with the
11:13:16 neighbors if we pass this ordinance.
11:13:18 They might be glad that we did something to help them
11:13:20 out.

11:13:21 So I would be able to support this phase two.
11:13:23 >>> Thank you.
11:13:24 I made a note here.
11:13:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This emergency ordinance is very
11:13:31 simple to read.
11:13:32 Really two pages.
11:13:34 Apply one or two.
11:13:36 It's not difficult reading.
11:13:40 I don't want to see the mayor, us pass our legislative
11:13:45 responsibility to the mayor.
11:13:47 If something goes wrong, I don't want to point at the
11:13:50 mayor.
11:13:50 I want to point at myself.
11:13:51 That's what I got elected to do.
11:13:53 I want to say, you took the bull by the horn and you
11:13:56 tried to do the right thing.
11:13:59 Legally, I agree with Mr. Dingfelder, those
11:14:02 individuals that were on that first ordinance.
11:14:06 However, I don't know if legally I have the right to
11:14:09 tell them that they have to hook up.
11:14:12 At the time we passed that ordinance, I don't believe
11:14:15 there was any binding contract to say that you must

11:14:19 sign up within a period of time.
11:14:21 I may be wrong, but I don't know.
11:14:23 How we got involved in the county in the 70s is the
11:14:26 main line came close to a boundary of another
11:14:29 jurisdiction, the legislature said you will supply
11:14:32 that area with water and sewer.
11:14:35 And we have done that.
11:14:36 And we will continue to do that.
11:14:40 It's all not negative during the productive times of
11:14:43 when we have a lot of water coming in, sometimes half
11:14:47 a billion gallons goes over the dam in the rainy parts
11:14:52 of the year.
11:14:52 We make money on those customers.
11:14:54 They are good customers.
11:14:56 We just want them to adhere the same things that we
11:14:58 have now.
11:15:00 That's the thing that concerns me.
11:15:02 But again I want to emphasize -- and when we talk
11:15:05 about reclaimed, I don't want everyone to think that
11:15:08 everyone is going to get a reclaimed line and it's
11:15:10 going to be honky donky and everything is going to be
11:15:15 perfect because it takes five houses to make reclaimed

11:15:17 for one.
11:15:19 I myself, I have a 99% chance I'm not going to get
11:15:23 reclaimed.
11:15:25 Because it has to go to the highest water users, and
11:15:29 those that have bigger lots, because then all of us
11:15:32 can be benefited by a water rate that we can live with
11:15:37 and it's much lower than the rest of the area.
11:15:40 So I always keep that in mind.
11:15:42 Yes, we are working.
11:15:43 Yes, I think that reclaimed is going to go down
11:15:48 Bayshore, how far south?
11:15:49 I don't know, maybe Euclid, maybe Gandy, then turn
11:15:52 west, maybe come up MacDill and change.
11:15:55 But that's only the second step.
11:15:58 We have done an agreement with the Tampa International
11:16:00 Airport, I believe, we are trying to get agreements
11:16:03 down Boy Scout Boulevard to extend the line.
11:16:05 There has been some resistance.
11:16:07 And I am not going to say from where.
11:16:09 But I don't mind those resistances because if they are
11:16:11 getting salt water intrusion now, at the golf course,
11:16:16 at Rocky Point, it isn't going to take much longer for

11:16:20 them to come up and ask for it and maybe there should
11:16:22 be a big penalty for them not signing up.
11:16:25 That will solve the problem right quick.
11:16:27 But all those areas including St. Joseph's hospital,
11:16:30 the Buccaneer practice field, the football field, the
11:16:34 George Steinbrenner field, should all be on reclaimed
11:16:36 water and that's what the city -- and I commend you
11:16:39 and Brad Baird and the mayor and her administration
11:16:42 for doing this.
11:16:43 In talking to the mayor just the other day, on the
11:16:46 phone, we are working on a water summit here in Tampa.
11:16:51 I don't know how the details are because I'm not
11:16:54 involved in the details.
11:16:56 But the mayor and I have asked for a water summit to
11:17:00 include all the governing bodies and anyone who would
11:17:03 like to attend.
11:17:04 It will be a summit on water and drought so that
11:17:07 everybody understands, and most of all, the focus and
11:17:10 the distribution of information to the public, because
11:17:14 we have been so used to just everything water, taking
11:17:18 a shower, cooking, washing clothes, doing what we have
11:17:22 to do, and we forget that we have a situation that

11:17:26 nature has created and we are making it much more
11:17:29 difficult.
11:17:29 So, Mr. Chairman, I don't know if you want to move
11:17:32 this ordinance.
11:17:33 It not that difficult to read.
11:17:36 With that nod, I guess it means yes.
11:17:40 So I don't know if we are ready to do that or not.
11:17:42 But I would move phase two of this with an addendum
11:17:48 that the city will make all the efforts to get water,
11:17:51 those construction that are idle, city vehicles that
11:17:55 are not running 24 hours a day, to try to deliver
11:17:58 reclaimed to the highest water users so that they can
11:18:02 lower their consumptive rate to be more water for the
11:18:06 rest of us and it works both ways.
11:18:09 There's a win-win for both of us.
11:18:11 And of course charging them.
11:18:12 It not going to be for free.
11:18:13 Somebody has got to do it.
11:18:15 And we know what their water bill is now so we can
11:18:18 make some adjustment to that and they pay the
11:18:20 reclaimed, there's no charge, no loss, no gain to
11:18:24 them.

11:18:25 They still have the ability to do that. With that can
11:18:26 be done or not I don't know.
11:18:28 But I think that is something that can be discussed,
11:18:31 or worked on with the administration to try to do
11:18:34 that.
11:18:35 You have all the facts and numbers.
11:18:36 We don't.
11:18:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
11:18:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The ordinance that staff brought us
11:18:53 today now that I have had a chance to read it says we
11:18:55 will go to level one restrictions April 3rd,
11:18:58 pretty much immediately, and then it speaks to the
11:19:01 level two or phase two that's been spoken to, which --
11:19:05 by the way, level one restrictions would be every
11:19:10 other week watering instead of where we are today,
11:19:13 which is once a week.
11:19:16 And we would potentially go to the level two emergency
11:19:20 restrictions or phase two as it's been called, only if
11:19:23 the mayor recommended it and brought it back to
11:19:26 council to revisit when she felt it was necessary.
11:19:33 That's the way I read it.
11:19:35 Correct?

11:19:36 >>> Jan McLean, city attorney's office.
11:19:40 I would like to give a brief explanation.
11:19:42 That is correct what you have in front of you.
11:19:43 The ordinance that I have provided you is the
11:19:46 two-phase implementation of two levels, which you have
11:19:50 seen on your information sheet.
11:19:53 We knew there was going to be discussion as to whether
11:19:55 there would be a phased-in process or whether there
11:19:57 would be some indication as to whether you would want
11:20:00 to go immediately to what we are calling the phase
11:20:03 two.
11:20:04 I have an ordinance that includes the phase two
11:20:06 restrictions only.
11:20:08 And you are right, Mr. Dingfelder, what you see in
11:20:10 there is where you take an action today which we feel
11:20:14 you would need to take the action today, not delegate
11:20:17 an action on the first phase to later.
11:20:20 You would have -- if you are going to do
11:20:21 implementation you take the action today, and then
11:20:24 authorize the mayor to take action on the second
11:20:27 phase.
11:20:28 The way that it's set up is that I was trying to be

11:20:31 most expansive and not exclusive of the council, and
11:20:35 identifying that we would have to come back to you.
11:20:37 Obviously, if you direct us otherwise we can make
11:20:40 those changes.
11:20:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:20:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So way said is corrected.
11:20:45 This ordinance that's in our hands right this second,
11:20:49 okay, basically says we are going to take extreme
11:20:54 action today, all right, and go to every other week,
11:20:58 one day every other week watering.
11:21:03 That's pretty extreme for people that have yards.
11:21:07 All right.
11:21:08 I know we have problems.
11:21:09 I have spoken to it repeatedly for years.
11:21:13 And I think we need to do a better job on conservation
11:21:16 and everything else.
11:21:18 But I'm extremely concerned if council is leaning
11:21:21 toward immediately, okay, with a half a day's notice,
11:21:27 okay, one newspaper article out in the paper, and then
11:21:31 we are going to go immediately to no watering, okay,
11:21:36 no irrigation systems, period, until it starts raining
11:21:40 again; without easing people into it.

11:21:44 >>> That's why it would be again April 3rd and we
11:21:48 would have time.
11:21:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, no, no.
11:21:51 The ordinance is passed today.
11:21:54 >>> I understand.
11:21:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And, yes, you are saying April
11:21:58 3rd would be the implementation date.
11:21:59 I don't know where the April 3rd comes from.
11:22:01 But the bottom line is, if all of a sudden this
11:22:05 community comes out en masse, okay, and says, excuse
11:22:10 us, council, we have other ideas, okay.
11:22:15 We would like you to phase this in.
11:22:16 Then we have to go back to the drawing board and
11:22:18 revisit it.
11:22:20 It's my understanding that as of yesterday, the
11:22:24 mayor's approach on this was to phase it in.
11:22:28 Is that true, Steve?
11:22:29 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: That's the recommendation we
11:22:31 brought to council today.
11:22:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: To phase it in.
11:22:35 Start with the every other week, okay, and then if you
11:22:40 and the mayor see fit come back to us, because we meet

11:22:42 every week.
11:22:43 You can come back to us any given time on emergency
11:22:45 basis to implement level two.
11:22:47 All right.
11:22:49 We are in an extreme situation, take, that takes
11:22:54 extreme action, but at the same time I think that we
11:22:56 also need to be prudent and march into this a little
11:23:01 slower than what I am hearing some of my colleagues
11:23:04 recommend.
11:23:04 And with all due respect, because I know we are all in
11:23:07 this together, and we all know that we have got some
11:23:09 severe problems.
11:23:10 I just think that we have got to do it a little -- a
11:23:14 little bit slower and go to every other week, and
11:23:17 maybe a few weeks from now, a month from now, the
11:23:20 mayor is going to say, boom, you know what?
11:23:22 We need to not water, period.
11:23:28 >>> I'm sorry, Mr. Chair.
11:23:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just say to council, there's
11:23:34 two ordinances.
11:23:34 What you have is the first phase ordinance.
11:23:38 And the second that they have prepared, I had this

11:23:41 discussion with them to make sure that they had a
11:23:43 second in case council wants to go to phase two.
11:23:47 So that ordinance is here as well.
11:23:51 So thank you for going ahead and doing that.
11:23:55 So I want council to understand you do have another
11:23:58 ordinance that will put phase two in effective April
11:24:03 3rd, which is approximately two weeks away, is
11:24:06 that right? So it is not an immediate -- you have at
11:24:14 least a couple weeks.
11:24:15 The question that I raise, what's going to be
11:24:17 different between, you know, now and a month from now?
11:24:23 Do we expect an abundance of rain?
11:24:27 I mean, everything I have seen, that's not the case.
11:24:30 Do we expect someone will come up with some miracle
11:24:33 somewhere, I guess, to conserve all the water, when we
11:24:37 are already -- we are actually below crisis level.
11:24:41 Is that right?
11:24:42 I mean, you are at the place now that you really, at
11:24:47 the beginning of your drought season, the drought
11:24:49 season, that you need now to start really conserving.
11:24:53 So why would we as responsible elected officials deter
11:25:01 or wait to implement something that we know that we

11:25:05 need to implement now?
11:25:09 You have got to understand something.
11:25:10 We have got a problem.
11:25:11 And the problem is W-A-T-E-R, water.
11:25:19 And we have to implement extreme measures in order,
11:25:23 here again, to help conserve the water supply.
11:25:30 This is a public, health-safety issue.
11:25:36 >>> If I could explain what you have just been handed
11:25:56 and chair Scott is correct.
11:25:57 This is an ordinance that contains only the measures
11:25:59 that are identified on your information sheet as phase
11:26:02 two.
11:26:03 And, therefore, you would be acting on this today.
11:26:07 This includes the current days and hours, that you
11:26:13 would only hand water turf and you would hand water or
11:26:16 use microirrigation on landscaping.
11:26:19 And you would -- and the rest of it is as on your
11:26:24 information sheet.
11:26:25 I just wanted to distinguish what you were handed
11:26:28 first, which is your two-phase, 18-page ordinance and
11:26:34 the pen page ordinance that you were just handed.
11:26:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is a public hearing. Hear from

11:26:51 the public. Time is getting away from us.
11:26:51 >>GWEN MILLER: This is not a public hearing.
11:26:53 >> Well, counsel, you speak to that.
11:26:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: This is being adopted as an emergency
11:26:53 ordinance. If you wish to open the public hearing and
11:26:53 do the reading, then you can. Obviously under Florida
11:27:07 statute and the city charter, as long as it's adopted
11:27:09 by a super majority and as long as -- as long as it's
11:27:17 done publicly and as long as it's in compliance with
11:27:21 setting forth in the ordinance the basis for the
11:27:25 emergency, then it can be adopted today without two
11:27:29 public hearings.
11:27:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, let me ask the public at this
11:27:33 point, ask the public to come forth and address
11:27:36 council.
11:27:36 Anyone from the public wishes to address council on
11:27:38 this item.
11:27:43 The motion now is to pass the ordinance implementing
11:27:47 phase two.
11:27:48 That is the motion that was made by councilman
11:27:51 Miranda, seconded by councilman Caetano.
11:27:54 So anyone from the public wishes to address council.

11:27:57 Okay, seeing none.
11:27:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: One more time real quick.
11:28:00 The reason I go with two and not one is clearly that
11:28:03 on one, everyone though it addresses similar things,
11:28:07 you have the first and third.
11:28:09 And what happens in 14 days, sometimes I would forget
11:28:13 that one day -- the public is used to being on this
11:28:18 criteria, on this same Tuesday and Sunday, for years.
11:28:21 And now we are going to change it to the first and the
11:28:24 third something.
11:28:28 They'll forget.
11:28:28 They are going to get unwarranted ticketed.
11:28:31 They mean well.
11:28:32 And we are going to go on and pass judgment on people
11:28:35 that may be not doing it to be malicious, to have
11:28:40 green grass, they just got confused with the dates.
11:28:43 And I don't want that to happen to the good citizens.
11:28:46 I think that if we stay with the same thing -- and I
11:28:49 am going to be very sincere, there might be a further
11:28:53 restriction on this.
11:28:54 I don't know what's going to happen.
11:28:56 But at least now we have something to go on.

11:28:58 It may be that in two or three weeks this may come
11:29:01 back and we have to restrict the hours everyone more.
11:29:09 You cannot use 300 million gallons of water on the
11:29:12 lawn when the reservoir is equivalent to or less than
11:29:16 half of that amount at that time.
11:29:20 We have a public safety responsibility.
11:29:23 And it should be dealt with as a public -- I'm not
11:29:26 after anyone.
11:29:27 I'm trying to get something done to protect life.
11:29:32 And that's what it's all about.
11:29:34 This council and this administration took the step
11:29:37 forward to raise the water rate on a tiered level, to
11:29:42 have instead of ten miles a year -- and Brad, you can
11:29:47 correct, 50 or 60 mimes a year of replacing pipe.
11:29:50 Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I thank you for my
11:29:53 indulgence.
11:29:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, thank you.
11:29:58 We need to take a vote.
11:29:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Procedurally I am going to move to
11:30:02 amend the motion to have both phases, to start with
11:30:11 the level one restrictions, and then have the level
11:30:15 two restrictions come in when the mayor would bring it

11:30:23 to us, when she deems it's appropriate.
11:30:25 In other words, by amendment, my amendment is to go
11:30:28 with the mayor's recommendations as of yesterday.
11:30:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:30:33 I would like to speak.
11:30:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go ahead.
11:30:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yesterday, I was briefed by Mr.
11:30:41 Daignault about this, and he said, what do you think?
11:30:44 And I said, so what do you think of starting out with
11:30:47 phase one and then moving to phase two?
11:30:49 And I said, I think that seems really reasonable.
11:30:52 That was the recommendation brought to us by the
11:30:55 administration.
11:30:55 I think it a very reasonable recommendation.
11:30:57 And I would like to add, Mr. Baird, that I think we
11:31:00 need to get little plastic R's so that we can put in
11:31:04 the lawns of reclaimed so if neighbors see the
11:31:06 sprinklers going on they don't think they are
11:31:09 cheating, they are dealing with reclaimed, maybe we
11:31:11 should do that so we don't have bad feelings in
11:31:14 neighborhoods.
11:31:15 So I will support what's proposed by Mr. Dingfelder

11:31:20 which was brought to us yesterday by the
11:31:21 administration.
11:31:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Was that brought to us yesterday?
11:31:29 I didn't get that.
11:31:31 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I was briefing -- Mrs. Saul-Sena
11:31:34 asked me to come talk to her about bicycles.
11:31:37 [ Laughter ]
11:31:38 I was there briefing her on bicycles.
11:31:43 I asked her at the time what she was hearing about the
11:31:45 watering situation and I explained that we would be
11:31:47 come with some recommendations.
11:31:49 That's as far as our discussion went yesterday.
11:31:51 I didn't get into and didn't have this level of detail
11:31:54 when we spoke.
11:31:58 And I apologize that we did not have the opportunity
11:32:00 to brief any council members on the details of this
11:32:03 yesterday.
11:32:07 What we put out there --
11:32:09 The substitute motion on the floor, the substitute
11:32:11 motion is to go with the mayor's recommendation.
11:32:14 All in favor of the substitute motion signify by
11:32:18 saying Aye.

11:32:19 Opposes?
11:32:22 Now we are back to the original motion.
11:32:24 Go ahead.
11:32:24 >>THE CLERK: Motion failed with Miranda, Scott and
11:32:28 Caetano voting no.
11:32:30 >> We are back to the original motion on the floor.
11:32:37 The resolution is for phase two.
11:32:39 Do we need to read this ordinance?
11:32:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Clarification on the motion.
11:32:43 And I just -- I don't have any of these type of
11:32:46 subdivisions in my district.
11:32:48 I just wanted Mr. Caetano to be aware that it's my
11:32:52 understanding this would preclude New Tampa, for
11:32:58 example, from irrigating any -- from running their
11:33:01 sprinkler system.
11:33:02 Period.
11:33:05 Mr. Baird?
11:33:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: And the microsystem.
11:33:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm talking about lawns, not the
11:33:12 plants.
11:33:13 >>GWEN MILLER: The water hose.
11:33:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: New Tampa, for example, has, I

11:33:19 assume, as I drive up and down those roads, they have
11:33:22 large amounts of grass being irrigated, right?
11:33:24 >>> That's correct, yes.
11:33:27 >> With sprinkler systems, correct?
11:33:29 >>> Yes.
11:33:30 >> If we pass the motion these on the floor, as of
11:33:33 April 3rd, they would not be allowed to use the
11:33:35 irrigation system, right?
11:33:38 >>> Which motion?
11:33:40 >> Charlie's motion which is now on the floor.
11:33:42 >>> That's correct.
11:33:43 They would need to hand water turf on their watering
11:33:49 day.
11:33:50 >> Okay.
11:33:51 Dragging hoses up an and down all those roads and
11:33:54 everything else is the only way they could water?
11:33:58 >>> Where there's turf, yes, they would need to hand
11:34:01 water the turf.
11:34:05 For the plantings, they can use microirrigation, root
11:34:09 irrigation or hand watering.
11:34:10 >> I'm talking about the turf.
11:34:12 I just want everybody to know what they are voting on.

11:34:14 Okay?
11:34:15 And because -- in large subdivisions that have huge
11:34:22 investments in their turf.
11:34:25 And I'm not saying it's right or wrong but it's there.
11:34:30 >>> And to answer Mr. Dingfelder's an Mr. Caetano's
11:34:34 earlier question, Mr. Caetano's earlier question to
11:34:37 Brad, can they use their ponds or other to supplement?
11:34:41 If they have a water use permit from the water
11:34:43 management district, we are not superseding any
11:34:45 conditions on water use from the water management
11:34:47 district.
11:34:48 And I don't know if they do or they don't.
11:34:51 But if they don't, then you are right.
11:34:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Listen, you all, we have got to move.
11:34:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This is important, Tom.
11:34:59 It's critical --
11:35:00 No, the issue is we have been on this issue now for
11:35:03 some time, and --
11:35:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have always said -- excuse me --
11:35:11 I'm not pretty, I'm not worth a hoot as a politician,
11:35:15 because I'm going to tell you the truth.
11:35:20 Makes no difference where you are at.

11:35:21 I don't care if you are in Davis Island, Harbor
11:35:23 Island, Tampa Palms, we have an entire problem, in the
11:35:32 counties and the State of Florida, that we are
11:35:34 responsible to try to solve.
11:35:37 For me to pick out New Tampa, to put the pressure on
11:35:40 that council member is wrong.
11:35:49 >> You just used me as an example.
11:35:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not using your name. I know
11:35:53 the rules just like you do.
11:35:54 I don't interject when you are speaking.
11:35:56 Please don't do it when I'm speaking.
11:35:58 That's the third time I've warned you.
11:36:00 Don't do it again.
11:36:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, council.
11:36:04 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I have to interject.
11:36:06 Mr. Dingfelder has been on this council eight years.
11:36:09 Six years.
11:36:10 Reclaimed water should be up in New Tampa.
11:36:12 I don't know why we are sitting on our DUFFS and not
11:36:16 doing anything.
11:36:17 We pay one fifth of the ad valorem tax to this city,
11:36:19 right?

11:36:21 Until I complained.
11:36:22 We didn't even have policemen up there.
11:36:24 Now we do.
11:36:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
11:36:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a Brad Baird question and
11:36:30 it's about golf courses.
11:36:32 Are golf courses subject to this, also?
11:36:34 To this restriction that we are considering?
11:36:42 >> I am going to defer that one to Jan.
11:36:44 >> Yes, ma'am, if they don't have a water use permit.
11:36:46 If they are on our system, if they are using wells,
11:36:49 they are subject to this.
11:36:50 >> Do you know about Palma Ceia or Rogers Park?
11:36:57 >>> I don't know each individual.
11:36:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Brad, could you please?
11:37:01 When I go to Publix this is what people are going to
11:37:03 be asking me so I need to know the answer.
11:37:05 >>> To the best of my knowledge all three of the city
11:37:07 golf courses are on wells.
11:37:11 And I believe they all have a separate water use
11:37:13 permit, I believe.
11:37:16 >> What about the private courses in the city?

11:37:19 >>BRAD BAIRD: I know the Palma Ceia golf course,
11:37:23 because we have talked to them about in the future
11:37:28 moving to reclaimed water.
11:37:29 They are on wells current currently.
11:37:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What about Tampa Palms?
11:37:34 >>> I don't know about the other ones.
11:37:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What about Tampa Palms?
11:37:38 Is it on a well?
11:37:39 >>> I don't know.
11:37:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Because I know the people who live
11:37:41 on golf courses are going to be concerned and I want
11:37:44 to be able to provide them accurate information.
11:37:45 Thank you.
11:37:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion on the floor.
11:37:49 All in favor --
11:37:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Read it.
11:37:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to make sure before I read
11:37:55 it, Mr. Chairman.
11:37:56 Jan, this is the ordinance you passed out is level
11:37:58 two?
11:38:00 >>> Yes, sir, ten pages of level two.
11:38:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is the one you gave me that

11:38:05 has level two in it?
11:38:07 >>> If it has ten pages, it has only the level two --
11:38:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ten pages.
11:38:14 >>> Yes, sir.
11:38:14 >> The other one has ten pages.
11:38:17 >>> Noose no, sir, it has 18.
11:38:19 >> I will read this.
11:38:20 An emergency ordinance in the city of Tampa, Florida
11:38:23 providing for critical emergency measures in
11:38:26 restricting water use and curtailing non-essential
11:38:29 uses of water superseding the current emergency
11:38:31 ordinance 2006-104 adopted May 6th, 2006,
11:38:37 providing for enforcement and penalties, suspending
11:38:41 the provisions of City of Tampa code chapter 26,
11:38:44 section 97, during the effective period of this
11:38:49 ordinance, providing for severability, providing an
11:38:51 effective date.
11:38:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
11:38:54 Caetano.
11:38:54 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:38:58 Opposes?
11:39:00 >> No.

11:39:03 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder voting no,
11:39:05 and Mulhern being absent.
11:39:09 Do you want to identify second reading or is this
11:39:11 first reading?
11:39:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I have been informed it only requires
11:39:16 one reading.
11:39:17 Council, I want to apologize.
11:39:19 I certainly wish I would have known this would have
11:39:22 period --
11:39:22 I'll address that.
11:39:24 I'm going to address that issue.
11:39:26 Any other questions be? Let me just say, I want to
11:39:32 say this to administration.
11:39:33 I want to say this to the city attorney.
11:39:35 First of all, I agree with councilman Dingfelder, we
11:39:39 should have had it at least by last night.
11:39:41 We should have had been able to review this.
11:39:45 I was getting calls early this morning about it, and I
11:39:49 didn't have nothing to refer to.
11:39:50 That's number one.
11:39:55 We would have had this at least late last night, we
11:39:58 could have had this.

11:39:58 Secondly, council attorney should have been involved
11:40:00 in the process, or at least been aware of what was
11:40:02 taking place here today.
11:40:04 So in the future, when these items come up, I would
11:40:08 appreciate that you will get these to council, extreme
11:40:13 emergency situation, the night before, so that we can
11:40:16 have time to read through the ordinance and also for
11:40:19 City Council's attorney can be involved to review it.
11:40:25 Thank you very much.
11:40:25 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I voted for this and I expect
11:40:29 this city to be aggressive, to get reclaimed water.
11:40:34 If everybody saw the news last night blood pressure
11:40:36 the big users on Bayshore, okay?
11:40:41 They need to be treated equally.
11:40:42 And it not happening.
11:40:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to move now to item 74.
11:40:51 Item 74.
11:40:56 Who is here on item 74?
11:40:57 Administration to appear and provide a report
11:41:00 regarding the request to review the legality of the
11:41:02 commercial use that was alleged to be adjacent to the
11:41:04 property at 3809 west Estrella street and also

11:41:09 regarding --
11:41:11 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:41:13 I am just going to go ahead and make the report as I
11:41:15 have had conversations with code enforcement staffer
11:41:18 and our zoning staff regarding this property.
11:41:22 The code enforcement office has gone out and now
11:41:25 recently inspected the property on two separate
11:41:28 indications, and on both of those occasions it appears
11:41:31 the property has been cleared of all commercial
11:41:33 equipment that was seen on the property at that
11:41:37 location previous.
11:41:38 So in terms of code enforcement violations relating to
11:41:42 historic equipment, that has been resolved.
11:41:44 However, as part of the investigation, it was
11:41:47 determined that the property probably does need a home
11:41:50 occupation license to continue to conduct a very small
11:41:54 construction business within the house.
11:41:58 The property owner has been informed that they would
11:42:01 need to be able to have that home occupation license
11:42:03 in order to have that property used for the office
11:42:07 portion of the contracting business.
11:42:11 It not to have any commercial operations out of that.

11:42:13 So they have been working, I understand, they either
11:42:16 have contacted or going to contact the zoning office
11:42:18 in order to receive that home occupation license.
11:42:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And they understand they can't have
11:42:25 commercial vehicles parked there?
11:42:26 >>JULIA COLE: I understand there have been extensive
11:42:28 conversations between the code enforcement and the
11:42:31 gentleman who owns the house, and he was very
11:42:34 cooperative with our staff in terms of allowing them
11:42:36 to review -- to look at the property.
11:42:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Then I think that it what is
11:42:42 appropriate is in 60 days to have a written report
11:42:44 that we followed up, and that they have applied for a
11:42:47 home occupation, and what the state of the property
11:42:49 is, because sometimes if they think the eyes of Texas
11:42:58 are upon them that's what they will do.
11:43:00 My recommendation is to get a staff follow-up report.
11:43:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
11:43:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think it's overkill and I think
11:43:08 there's no equal protection here whatsoever.
11:43:10 I'm fine with the fact that we went out and had them
11:43:14 remove any potential construction equipment.

11:43:16 When you talk about home occupation, you know, that's
11:43:21 silly, because there are thousands of people who work
11:43:23 out of their homes.
11:43:25 As long as you don't have people coming and going to
11:43:27 your house for this purpose, then I think we shouldn't
11:43:32 be doing this.
11:43:33 I'm not going to support it.
11:43:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The reason is they have stuff on
11:43:37 the property and I'm afraid if they don't think anyone
11:43:40 is paying attention they will have more stuff on the
11:43:42 property.
11:43:43 The motion is we get a report back in 60 days.
11:43:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Miller.
11:43:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Or report back from staff on
11:43:53 whether this property is being used appropriately or
11:43:55 inappropriately for -- other than residential uses.
11:44:01 Or whether they have applied for home occupation,
11:44:04 whether it's being handled properly.
11:44:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That was seconded by councilman
11:44:08 Miranda.
11:44:08 Okay?
11:44:09 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

11:44:11 Opposes?
11:44:14 >> Nay.
11:44:14 >>THE CLERK: Right now the motion is not adopted with
11:44:25 Dingfelder voting no and Mulhern being absent and
11:44:29 Miranda.
11:44:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you want to hold the motion till
11:44:31 the rest of council gets back.
11:44:34 The only time it would die is a procedural issue.
11:44:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So it can come back.
11:44:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It would normally come back under
11:44:43 rule 4-H.
11:44:45 Excuse me, rule 4-C.
11:44:49 Although actually, council, now that I read it, says
11:44:52 when a matter that's a subject of an agenda item four
11:44:56 votes are not obtained.
11:44:57 So that item is on the agenda.
11:45:03 The motion was not on the agenda.
11:45:04 Subject matter was.
11:45:05 So it the chair's call.
11:45:07 Does the chair wish to have this under rule 4-C come
11:45:10 back for reconsideration at the next regular council
11:45:12 meeting, or hold it till later, the motion dies?

11:45:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Hold it till new business.
11:45:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, that's fine.
11:45:22 Item 76.
11:45:26 Item 76.
11:45:56 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
11:45:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Point of order, Mr. Chairman.
11:46:00 Cathy, how long do you think your presentation is
11:46:02 going to take?
11:46:03 >>CATHERINE COYLE: It's brief.
11:46:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Like five minute brief, ten
11:46:11 minutes?
11:46:13 >>CATHERINE COYLE: A minute and a half.
11:46:15 What I have given you basically is the regulation
11:46:17 27-134.1.
11:46:20 It includes the purpose and intent of development
11:46:24 standards for the cell towers within the city.
11:46:26 From the zoning code.
11:46:28 And since the discussion really related to towers and
11:46:33 where they could be placed, and the items as they were
11:46:37 discuss board of director school locations and public
11:46:38 facilities, way want to give you was the
11:46:41 telecommunications tower map that's referenced in the

11:46:44 code, on the sheet along with the list.
11:46:48 There are 59 approved locations on that map.
11:46:50 These are the towers sites that were approved over
11:46:55 time.
11:46:56 Since I have been zoning administrator, which is about
11:47:00 three years now, it's only been two that have been
11:47:02 approved.
11:47:03 58 and 59 through the process in this code.
11:47:08 So numbers 4 through 57, they have been around a very
11:47:13 long time.
11:47:14 I can't tell you exactly when they were approved.
11:47:16 But over the years, you will notice that they exist on
11:47:20 TECO substations, different school locations, city
11:47:24 parks, fire stations, and, you know, fleet locations.
11:47:31 Really it's just going to give you the information and
11:47:34 find out from you where the discussion was going.
11:47:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:47:43 Just a question, Cathy.
11:47:44 Because you know our code better than anybody maybe
11:47:48 other than Gloria.
11:47:53 It appears in reading this section 27-134.1,
11:47:59 et cetera, that we treat cell towers differently when

11:48:03 they are being proposed for placement on public
11:48:08 property, like schools, foyer stations, city parks,
11:48:14 et cetera; than we do if somebody wants to put it in
11:48:19 the back of their gas station.
11:48:21 Correct?
11:48:22 >>> There is a separate process for it, yes.
11:48:25 >> I mean it's significantly different, correct?
11:48:27 >>> Yes, sir, adopted on an overlay map.
11:48:30 That's correct.
11:48:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
11:48:31 So in the private process, okay, they have to put an
11:48:41 application in to the city, and you have to review it,
11:48:45 and then doesn't it come to council, I think, that
11:48:49 sort of thing?
11:48:51 >>CATHERINE COYLE: If they build what is in the table
11:48:54 6-1 on the front page, if they build exactly in that
11:48:57 table and they meet the setback requirements and the
11:49:00 height requirement, then it's just allowed by right,
11:49:02 if they are in the correct zoning district.
11:49:04 They are required to do a special use 2 to come to
11:49:07 City Council if they are in the CG or O.P. zoning
11:49:11 districts or if they meet variances to meet distance

11:49:15 separation.
11:49:16 If they are more within the more intense commercial or
11:49:19 industrial district they go straight to permitting.
11:49:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
11:49:23 So to start with, we are treating the private sector,
11:49:28 or the public sector differently, because describe
11:49:31 what happens in the public sector process.
11:49:33 In other words, if the school -- if the school system
11:49:37 wants to do it, if the city itself, we treat ourselves
11:49:40 differently and bet are than we do the private sector
11:49:43 when it comes to these cell towers, what is that
11:49:46 process?
11:49:47 >>> If you go to page 4 of the regulations, those the
11:49:51 location overlay site.
11:49:53 It says public and private facilities, and structures
11:49:57 may be considered for location of commercial
11:49:58 communication towers without regard to underlining
11:50:02 zoning districts, prohibition of certain conditions
11:50:04 called out below can be met and so on, and they give
11:50:07 you the criteria.
11:50:08 There are communication towers, utility easements,
11:50:11 which are typically private, commercial communication

11:50:16 towers permitted by right in the right-of-way, and the
11:50:18 veterans expressway, Lee Roy Selmon, I-4, I-75, I-275,
11:50:23 and then there's parameters for that.
11:50:26 Park lands.
11:50:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I'll give another example.
11:50:30 A TECO substation.
11:50:32 Okay.
11:50:32 Or a little fire house.
11:50:35 What's the fire house number in West Tampa?
11:50:37 9?
11:50:38 It's surrounding by houses, right?
11:50:40 So I don't know if there's one there or not.
11:50:42 But if the city was approached by a cell tower vendor
11:50:46 and says we want to use fire house number 9, okay,
11:50:50 that's immediately surrounded by residential, you go
11:50:53 into this process which really isn't much of a
11:50:56 process, and as long as they, what, meet some criteria
11:51:01 there's no public notice, no meetings, no discussions,
11:51:04 there's no anything, the tower can get put up.
11:51:07 >>> As long as you formally put it on the map, yes.
11:51:10 >> As long as it put on a map.
11:51:12 >>> Correct.

11:51:13 >> All right.
11:51:14 I think that's what our community is speaking to.
11:51:18 All right.
11:51:20 There's very little process in any of this.
11:51:22 And this came to a head, okay, at a couple of schools
11:51:27 recently, a school in South Tampa and a school up in
11:51:33 New Tampa or somewhere up there.
11:51:37 Now in the case of South Tampa the school board and
11:51:40 the principal was smarts and he actually gave notice,
11:51:43 and he held some meetings.
11:51:44 But there's no rule that said that he needed to.
11:51:48 There's not even a rule in the school board's system
11:51:51 that says that they have to.
11:51:53 The principal has complete discretion to doing that.
11:51:57 But not even looking at the principal issue but
11:52:00 looking at ourselves.
11:52:01 Let's put the mirror in front of ourselves and say,
11:52:05 why is it fair that we could site a cell tower at
11:52:10 station number 9 in West Tampa theoretically without
11:52:12 having any notice to the surrounding folks, and any
11:52:16 input, without everything any buffering requirements?
11:52:19 Because I don't think there's any buffering

11:52:20 requirements, right?
11:52:23 >>CATHY COYLE: It is commercial so there would be
11:52:26 some buffering for the area around the -- I can't
11:52:30 think of the name of it. Where they put in the wall
11:52:30 for equipment.
11:52:31 But there's generally a buffering requirement of trees
11:52:34 or screening.
11:52:35 >> I thought they were exempt from that on public
11:52:39 property.
11:52:41 Well, you get the point.
11:52:42 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Okay.
11:52:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When it comes to the -- we were
11:52:49 shown a picture.
11:52:50 Was that Dale Mabry elementary that you showed?
11:52:55 Pride elementary?
11:52:57 We were shown of a picture immediately adjacent to a
11:53:01 covered little basketball shelter, that if you want to
11:53:04 talk about -- everyone if we don't talk about
11:53:06 radiation, everything else, talk about fall zones, we
11:53:11 are not addressing that either.
11:53:12 So I think that we need to address these things.
11:53:15 I think we need to address notice.

11:53:16 I think we need to have a public hearing, in this
11:53:21 council room, anytime any cell tower is going to be
11:53:23 constructed.
11:53:24 Okay.
11:53:25 Now, I know what the federal government has told us
11:53:28 that we cannot address, okay?
11:53:29 And I am not going to try to tackle Washington on this
11:53:34 issue at this time but there are things we can
11:53:36 address.
11:53:37 We can address notice.
11:53:38 We can have public hearings.
11:53:39 We can address setbacks to a certain extent.
11:53:42 And especially perhaps the fall zones.
11:53:46 We can have buffering and aesthetics as discussions.
11:53:50 And we can treat ourselves in the public sector the
11:53:54 same way we treat the private sector.
11:53:56 That's where I would like to see this go.
11:53:58 And after council discussion I'll make a motion to
11:54:00 that effect.
11:54:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I was wanting to hear from legal on
11:54:04 this issue what we can and cannot do because again
11:54:06 what can the public, to be straightforward,

11:54:09 councilman, as councilman Miranda before, Weaver to be
11:54:12 truthful as to what our responsibilities are, where
11:54:15 our jurisdictions are, so if counsel will address
11:54:19 that.
11:54:19 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:54:20 I think what we addressed this morning and what
11:54:22 councilman Dingfelder addressed is that there are
11:54:28 federal regulations which do preempt some of our
11:54:31 authority but preempt our authority to regulate cell
11:54:35 towers.
11:54:35 I did want to point out that in 2007 there was also
11:54:38 some statutory provision which were adopted in Florida
11:54:41 which also have an implication as to our authority as
11:54:46 it relates to our land use decisions and the siting of
11:54:52 cell towers.
11:54:53 I actually hadn't looked at this in a long time but
11:54:55 doing a little more research and started looking at
11:54:57 some of those other provisions.
11:54:59 Certainly prior to any changes we made to our code we
11:55:02 would need to go back and review both the federal
11:55:06 regulations and the state regulations to make sure we
11:55:08 are not acting adverse to those.

11:55:10 Unlike most land use decisions these are the type ever
11:55:13 land use decisions that do refer to regulation and
11:55:15 these are the causes and how we deal with them.
11:55:18 In terms of process, I understand, I wasn't with the
11:55:22 city at the time, that somewhere in 1997, 1998, local
11:55:26 government jurisdictions were going through the
11:55:28 process of readopting regulations for cell towers
11:55:32 because of the federal regulation, and the scheme that
11:55:34 was set up in the City of Tampa occurred after going
11:55:37 through a task force process, looking at the federal
11:55:40 regulations, and insuring that the new regulations
11:55:43 would be compliant with the fed federal regulations
11:55:47 and a scheme that was acceptable to the citizens and I
11:55:49 understand that that did set up a process where public
11:55:52 properties were deemed to be more suitable, and that's
11:55:55 why the process was set up the way it was with this
11:56:01 permit, you get on a map, and that was what was
11:56:04 determined at that time, and that's what's in your
11:56:06 code today.
11:56:07 Certainly we could review those processes to see if
11:56:11 the process would be better served to have all
11:56:14 properties treated the same, and I think that would be

11:56:16 something that the federal regulations and the state
11:56:20 regulations would allow us to do.
11:56:21 But I do want to be cautious that when we go through
11:56:25 this process, if we want to change setbacks, we want
11:56:28 to change other issues, that that could impact our
11:56:31 regulations and it could impact whether or not we are
11:56:33 compliant with federal regulations and state
11:56:36 regulations.
11:56:37 So those are just sort of some of the parameters, and
11:56:40 it's depending on how City Council wants to go on
11:56:43 this, we would need to spend some time on these
11:56:45 issues.
11:56:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to begin by admitting that I
11:56:50 am completely addicted to using my cell phone.
11:56:52 I love my cell phone.
11:56:53 I use it constantly.
11:56:55 But there are places where towers are more
11:56:57 appropriate, and less appropriate, and I think what
11:57:00 would be appropriate here is to recognize that a city
11:57:02 park is different than city land that might be sort of
11:57:07 geographically obscure and not have an impact on
11:57:10 homes, that certain schools have large campuses,

11:57:13 certain schools have smaller campuses, certain
11:57:16 residential setbacks might be different than others,
11:57:19 and I think this would be a very appropriate thing to
11:57:20 have a task force consisting of representatives of the
11:57:25 legal department, the public, and maybe a City Council
11:57:30 representative, maybe under the context of a special
11:57:33 discussion workshop, and see if working together we
11:57:37 can come up with rules that would best protect the
11:57:41 citizenry.
11:57:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me tell you where I am.
11:57:45 I would like for the legal department to go back and
11:57:50 look at the whole issue based what in our legal
11:57:53 parameters.
11:57:54 I think the best forum is in a workshop.
11:57:58 I think perhaps you all go back, do your research,
11:58:01 bring it back to us, some recommendations, of how you
11:58:04 heard some of the concerns, how we can address that.
11:58:07 I'm more open to that, you know, make sure that we are
11:58:12 within our legal parameters, our legal jurisdiction.
11:58:14 I think that protects us and covers us.
11:58:17 I don't want us to go down this path of giving false
11:58:20 hope when we don't have jurisdiction or we can't do

11:58:23 certain things.
11:58:24 Let our staffer go, let them do the research, what we
11:58:28 can do, look at our current statute, ordinance, and
11:58:31 then come back to us in a workshop forum to present to
11:58:34 us what it is that we can do.
11:58:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:58:39 I agree with that philosophy.
11:58:41 I know most of these good people that came in today
11:58:44 specifically visual.
11:58:48 I don't know names.
11:58:49 I'm sorry, I apologize.
11:58:50 But I have seen many of you, fundraising activities,
11:58:57 when the kids were there, I have six granddaughters
11:58:59 that at one time were all at Dale Mabry.
11:59:03 I have I think only two left at Dale Mabry, and some
11:59:07 at Coleman and two at plant.
11:59:10 So I spend about 20% of my time going over there, so
11:59:15 they can giver me advice on what to do over here.
11:59:18 But those girls, I wouldn't do anything to harm your
11:59:22 kids or my grandkids.
11:59:26 And there has been some activities brought up, and I
11:59:31 think that we have to find out what it is, and if a

11:59:35 cell tower is bad, how bad is a cell phone?
11:59:38 And I'm not saying it is or not.
11:59:40 I don't know.
11:59:40 I'm not into that area.
11:59:43 I don't have expertise.
11:59:45 But if it's that bad, I promise you this, I don't need
11:59:48 a cell phone.
11:59:50 I'll give it up and save me $1200 a year.
11:59:53 I can go to Europe.
11:59:56 That's how I think.
11:59:57 So, you know, I'm a frugal type individual.
12:00:01 I do give money to charities and other things.
12:00:04 But I don't need a cell phone.
12:00:09 We again, like I said earlier, we have become addicted
12:00:12 to everything in the pleasures of life so quickly that
12:00:16 we almost destroyed ourselves.
12:00:19 And these are the things that bother me about the way
12:00:21 we are going in society.
12:00:25 I don't know how much longer I am going to have a cell
12:00:27 phone but I guarantee you it's not going to be much
12:00:29 longer.
12:00:30 So they can reach me here, or they can reach me at the

12:00:33 house.
12:00:33 I still have a land line, and I'm the only council
12:00:37 member I think who doesn't have a computer either.
12:00:39 I don't believe in nothing that costs money.
12:00:43 Especially an ongoing basis that you can't remember
12:00:46 yourself.
12:00:47 So that's what I am going to do, Mr. Chairman.
12:00:49 I agree with you there.
12:00:51 I think we ought to have the good people back, get the
12:00:53 information from both sides, and let's come up with
12:00:56 something that works, because I think they are
12:01:00 entitled to have their day, and the only way we are
12:01:04 going to get this is by having an audience with all.
12:01:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I am going to pass the gavel and move
12:01:09 the motion that we ask legal to look all the
12:01:17 regulations, meet with the citizens as well, get their
12:01:20 input, and then bring back in a workshop forum to
12:01:26 council, some recommendations how we can provide
12:01:29 proceed to make sure we are within the -- we have the
12:01:31 jurisdiction and we are following all of the legal
12:01:34 bases to be able to craft the ordinance to change the
12:01:38 code.

12:01:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll second it but would like to
12:01:42 clarify the motion.
12:01:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay, go ahead.
12:01:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Cole has some apparent
12:01:48 scheduling issues.
12:01:52 Very apparent.
12:01:53 [ Laughter ]
12:01:54 So I want us to be sensitive to that in terms of the
12:01:57 month of the workshop.
12:01:58 But I would also adjusts for specificity,
12:02:02 Mr. Chairman, so Julia doesn't feel like we are
12:02:06 bouncing around all over the place, I would like to --
12:02:13 I think this is right so I will let you make the
12:02:22 motion.
12:02:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That some of the areas that you
12:02:25 explore include notice, you know, whether or not it's
12:02:28 posting signs, or mailing notice or what have you.
12:02:33 Just like we do on other land use.
12:02:36 Setbacks and fall zones.
12:02:46 Public hearings.
12:02:50 Buffering.
12:02:54 And as I mentioned to Cathy, treating applications to

12:03:00 put a cell tower on public property the same way we
12:03:03 treat it on private property.
12:03:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And I think the firefighters want to
12:03:10 also low at that as well, as I understand it, the
12:03:13 firefighters with the fire stations.
12:03:17 So you all can look at that as well.
12:03:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second on what you said,
12:03:24 Mr. Chairman.
12:03:24 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
12:03:26 All in favor say Aye.
12:03:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think you need to pick a day.
12:03:31 Are you going to be back by July?
12:03:34 >>JULIA COLE: I will probably not be here by the next
12:03:36 workshop next month, and anticipate coming back
12:03:40 towards the end of July, August.
12:03:43 It's about my time frame.
12:03:45 So I appreciate you keeping that in mind that that's
12:03:48 about my time frame.
12:03:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have August 27th workshop.
12:03:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That would be the motion.
12:03:58 >>GWEN MILLER: The motion to have a workshop on the
12:04:00 cell towers in August the 26th another 9 a.m.

12:04:04 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
12:04:06 Opposed, Nay.
12:04:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me pick up item 78.
12:04:11 We have 77, 78, and then we need to -- item 78, and
12:04:16 then I'll come back.
12:04:19 To 77.
12:04:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 78 is going to take a little while.
12:04:24 I want to share that with you.
12:04:27 78 is going to take a little while.
12:04:30 I can tell you I have a number of questions so it's
12:04:33 going to take a little while.
12:04:34 We might want to do it after lunch.
12:04:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let me remind council, we are
12:04:39 already behind schedule.
12:04:40 Please understand that now.
12:04:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I understand.
12:04:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And if that's the case, what about
12:04:45 item 77?
12:04:48 Because the mayor has agreed, to make three
12:04:52 appointments to the board.
12:04:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Fine, fine.
12:04:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You are okay with that?

12:04:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I don't know what the agreement is.
12:04:58 That we would appoint half the members?
12:05:01 >> Half the members. The mayor appoint four, we would
12:05:03 appoint three.
12:05:03 >> So we would make a motion to amend the ordinance?
12:05:09 >> That's my understanding.
12:05:10 >>GWEN MILLER: The mayor is okay with that?
12:05:12 I haven't heard.
12:05:13 Mr. Chip Fletcher, what is the recommendation?
12:05:15 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: The recommendation is that with
12:05:18 the merger of the public Nuisance Abatement Board
12:05:23 duties, with the code board, that we establish a
12:05:27 phase-in process by way the appointments can be split
12:05:31 between council and the mayor, four for the mayor,
12:05:34 three for the council, not disturbing any of the
12:05:37 existing appointment to the board, but we come back
12:05:40 with language that would allow future appointments to
12:05:42 occur that way, and also that there be language
12:05:46 requiring geographic diversity.
12:05:48 There's been a lot of effort in the last round to make
12:05:51 sure we get representation throughout the entire city
12:05:53 on that board, and we want to make sure that

12:05:56 continues.
12:05:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
12:05:59 Thank you.
12:06:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion, moved by councilman
12:06:03 Dingfelder.
12:06:04 Who seconded it?
12:06:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'll second it.
12:06:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
12:06:09 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
12:06:11 Opposes?
12:06:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move we stop for lunch.
12:06:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We are going to do that.
12:06:16 Let me -- before we do that --
12:06:20 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Why are we deferring number 78?
12:06:22 Staffer has been here all morning.
12:06:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have --
12:06:26 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Let me talk.
12:06:27 I have the floor, please.
12:06:28 If you want to talk, you can get your bite of the
12:06:31 apple.
12:06:31 I don't know who else wants to talk about it but we
12:06:33 have to get rid of it.

12:06:34 That's why we are at where we are at.
12:06:36 We never make any headway.
12:06:41 We have the staff here.
12:06:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: After lunch.
12:06:47 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Get rid of it.
12:06:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, apparently there are a number of
12:06:52 questions that council did want to ask.
12:06:54 I agree, I thought we were going to take a vote but
12:06:57 apparently there are a lot of questions.
12:06:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, this is not about us
12:07:01 in, is a rule that Weaver to break for lunch.
12:07:03 And I understand that they are here.
12:07:06 I think our minds would be better, we can eat better,
12:07:12 if we understand what they say.
12:07:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We stand in recess until 1:30.
12:07:16 Thank you.
12:07:16

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