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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, April 2, 2009
9:00 a.m. session

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00:22:36 >>THE CLERK: Tampa City Council is called to order.
09:02:58 Roll call.
09:03:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a point of order.
09:03:04 We have got four elections that are scheduled, and,
09:03:08 frankly, if she's coming, I think we should wait for
09:03:12 Mrs. Mulhern.
09:03:13 Obviously we can do the roll call, but that would just
09:03:15 be my suggestion.
09:03:16 >>THE CLERK: Would you like to have the invocation and
09:03:18 take care of that first?
09:03:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why don't we do that?
09:03:22 >>> It gives me a pleasure to introduce Shirley
09:03:26 Foxx-Knowles, our city clerk, that's going to provide
09:03:31 our invocation.
09:03:33 Please stand after that for the pledge of allegiance.
09:03:45 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: City clerk.
09:03:46 Let us pray.
09:03:47 Gracious father, thank you for this beautiful spring
09:03:49 morning here in the City of Tampa.
09:03:52 We celebrate this new day in this beautiful place.
09:03:56 Thank you for those assembled for this council
09:03:58 meeting.
09:03:59 We thank you for our mayor, our council, our
09:04:02 administration, our great city employees, and our
09:04:06 wonderful citizens.
09:04:08 Father, in these exciting and historic times, we ask
09:04:12 that you help us to start each day with a new attitude
09:04:16 and plenty of gratitude.
09:04:19 We appreciate the opportunity to be of service and ask
09:04:24 that you allow us to be instruments of your will.
09:04:27 We ask that you continue to guide our council members

09:04:31 who are servants of the people.
09:04:34 Continue to give them the wisdom they need to make the
09:04:37 best decisions for all of us.
09:04:40 Also, provide the gift of understanding to those who
09:04:43 will come before this council.
09:04:46 And now, O Lord, as we go about the worldly matters of
09:04:50 this city, let us again remember to be kind and
09:04:53 understanding of each other.
09:04:55 Please bless us with patience, peace, your grace, and
09:05:00 your mercy.
09:05:02 These things we ask with grateful hearts.
09:05:05 Let us all say amen.
09:05:09 (Pledge of Allegiance)
09:05:30 Good morning again.
09:05:31 Our roll call.
09:05:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:05:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:05:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:05:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:05:37 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:05:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:05:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.

09:05:41 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Thank you.
09:05:44 Shirley Foxx-Knowles, city clerk for the City of
09:05:46 Tampa.
09:05:47 We will now conduct the election of chairman and
09:05:51 chairman pro tem for the Tampa City Council.
09:05:54 Here are the election guidelines.
09:05:56 The election of the chair will be held first.
09:05:59 Nominations do not require a second.
09:06:01 Please wait to be recognized before nominating a
09:06:04 candidate.
09:06:05 I will open the nominations and close them after all
09:06:09 nominations have been made.
09:06:11 Votes will be counted by raising the hand.
09:06:13 The vote will be taken in order of nomination,
09:06:17 beginning with the first name nominated.
09:06:20 The vote will cease as soon as there is a majority
09:06:23 which requires four votes.
09:06:26 Nominations are now in order for chairman.
09:06:29 Mr. Caetano.
09:06:30 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Madam clerk, I would like to
09:06:32 nominate our present chairman Tom Scott.
09:06:37 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Councilman Tom Scott has been

09:06:42 nominated.
09:06:43 Is there another nomination?
09:06:44 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to nominate Charlie
09:06:49 Miranda.
09:06:51 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Charlie Miranda has been
09:06:54 nominated.
09:06:55 Are there any other nominations?
09:06:59 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to nominate John
09:07:02 Dingfelder.
09:07:04 >> John Dingfelder has been nominated.
09:07:07 Are there any other nominations? We will close on Tom
09:07:10 Scott, Charlie Miranda and John Dingfelder.
09:07:13 Is that okay?
09:07:16 Okay.
09:07:16 Starting with Tom Scott, all --
09:07:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me, shouldn't we do it in
09:07:21 alphabetical order?
09:07:29 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: It in the order of the
09:07:31 nomination.
09:07:33 And than was stated earlier.
09:07:35 Okay.
09:07:35 First of all, Tom Scott.

09:07:37 All in favor of Tom Scott being the chair of council,
09:07:43 please raise your hand.
09:07:46 Three votes.
09:07:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question.
09:07:54 Mr. Chairman?
09:07:57 Well, you are our chairman.
09:07:59 Thank you.
09:08:01 Mr. Shelby, if you nominate somebody, do you have to
09:08:06 vote for them?
09:08:09 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: I would think you would.
09:08:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't believe Roberts rules says
09:08:14 you do.
09:08:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe Roberts rules, in terms of
09:08:18 the maker of the motion -- and I can do the research
09:08:21 to find out the elections of the committee of the
09:08:23 board. But normally with regard to the maker of the
09:08:25 motion, generally when there's a motion to be made the
09:08:28 person who makes it is required to vote.
09:08:31 If there is a second required, and in this case it
09:08:34 not.
09:08:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't think it's required.
09:08:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't know the specific answer to

09:08:39 this.
09:08:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sal?
09:08:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I know many people give
09:08:53 contributions to many people and vote against them, so
09:08:56 what's the difference?
09:08:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we need to know what the
09:08:59 rules are.
09:09:01 There's a point of order pending and it relevant and
09:09:05 germane to the very vote we are about to take.
09:09:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Let me see if I can do this on the
09:09:10 fly.
09:09:11 I apologize.
09:09:13 According to Robert's Rules of Order, reading it as I
09:09:16 am saying it for the first time, on the first
09:09:19 organizational meeting, the first meeting at which the
09:09:21 business portion, the first meeting at which the
09:09:26 business portion should be kept brief, these meetings
09:09:28 for purpose of organization are called beyond the
09:09:35 scheduled time if desired.
09:09:38 I'm reading out of election of temporary officers
09:09:44 and -- let's see, I don't have the answer.
09:09:51 I'm sorry.

09:09:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I withdraw the question.
09:09:53 I personally believe that you can make any motion but
09:09:56 you don't necessarily have to vote for it.
09:09:59 I think that's the case generally.
09:10:04 I'm getting affirmative nods from our chairman.
09:10:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't know if that's a fact.
09:10:10 I think if you second the motion you don't have to
09:10:13 vote for it but again I'm not a lawyer.
09:10:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sorry to interrupt.
09:10:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If you are nominating, you have a
09:10:26 right to vote for anyone you so choose.
09:10:30 >> Then we are in agreement.
09:10:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can we just move the process?
09:10:36 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Would you like to vote again
09:10:37 for Tom Scott?
09:10:40 >> No.
09:10:41 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Moving on to councilman
09:10:44 Charlie Miranda being council chair, please raise your
09:10:47 hand.
09:10:50 One.
09:10:50 All in favor of John Dingfelder being council chair,
09:10:55 please raise your hand.

09:10:59 Three.
09:11:00 Okay.
09:11:00 Start again.
09:11:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like to nominate John
09:11:09 Dingfelder.
09:11:10 I'd like to say Chairman Scott has done a great job
09:11:12 but he would started several years ago with the idea
09:11:14 of rotation and I think it's healthy and I think that
09:11:17 John Dingfelder has balance, experience, objectivity,
09:11:21 and he would be an excellent chair.
09:11:23 This will be his 7th year.
09:11:25 He has not yet served as chairman.
09:11:27 I think he would guide this council well.
09:11:31 >>THE CLERK: Councilman John Dingfelder has been
09:11:35 nominated.
09:11:35 Mr. Caetano.
09:11:39 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to nominate Thomas
09:11:42 Scott.
09:11:42 >> Councilman Thomas Scott has been nominated.
09:11:45 Is there another knoll nomination?
09:11:47 We'll close on John Dingfelder and Thomas Scott.
09:11:51 All in favor of John Dingfelder, please raise your

09:11:54 hand.
09:11:55 Three.
09:11:56 All in favor of Thomas Scott, please raise your hand.
09:12:00 Four.
09:12:03 Thank you.
09:12:05 Would the new chair lick to say a few words?
09:12:09 >> Thank you, madam clerk.
09:12:10 I just want to thank all those who voted again and I'm
09:12:13 honored to serve as chair for the whole council and
09:12:17 the city.
09:12:18 Thank you.
09:12:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If I could, a little consolation
09:12:22 speech.
09:12:23 I would like to congratulate Chairman Scott.
09:12:25 He's done a good job this past year.
09:12:27 I would like to thank Ms. Mulhern and Ms. Saul-Sena
09:12:30 for their nomination and support.
09:12:32 Thank you.
09:12:37 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Now we'll move on to chairman
09:12:39 pro tem.
09:12:40 Are there any nominations for chairman pro tem?
09:12:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like to nominate John

09:12:46 Dingfelder.
09:12:47 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: John Dingfelder has been
09:12:51 nominated.
09:12:52 Is there another nomination?
09:12:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like to nominate Gwen
09:12:59 Miller.
09:13:00 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Councilwoman Gwen Miller has
09:13:02 been nominated.
09:13:03 Is there another nomination?
09:13:05 Close on councilman John Dingfelder and Councilwoman
09:13:11 Gwen Miller.
09:13:12 All in favor of councilman John Dingfelder being chair
09:13:18 pro tem, please raise your hand.
09:13:23 Three.
09:13:23 All in favor of Councilwoman Gwen Miller being
09:13:26 chairman pro tem?
09:13:31 Would the new chair pro tem like to say a few words?
09:13:37 >>GWEN MILLER: I would just like to say thank you to
09:13:39 my colleagues.
09:13:41 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Congratulations.
09:13:42 We'll move on to CRA elections.
09:13:44 This is the election for the chairman and vice

09:13:48 chairman.
09:13:54 The election for the chair will be held first.
09:13:56 Nominations again do not require a second.
09:13:59 Please wait to be recognized before nominating a
09:14:01 candidate.
09:14:02 I will open the nomination and close them after all
09:14:06 nominations have been made.
09:14:08 Votes will be counted by raising the hand.
09:14:10 The vote will cease as soon as there is a majority
09:14:14 which requires four votes.
09:14:15 Having said that, nominations are now in order for
09:14:18 chair.
09:14:20 Yes, Ms. Saul-Sena.
09:14:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Would like to nominate Mary
09:14:26 Mulhern.
09:14:26 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Thank you.
09:14:28 Councilwoman Mary Mulhern has been nominated.
09:14:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I nominate Joseph Caetano.
09:14:36 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Councilman Joseph Caetano has
09:14:41 been nominated.
09:14:42 Are there any other nominations?
09:14:44 We will close on Councilwoman Mary Mulhern and

09:14:48 councilman Joseph Caetano.
09:14:52 All in favor of Ms -- Ms. Miller has been nominated.
09:15:12 We will close with Ms. Mulhern, Mr. Caetano, and Ms.
09:15:16 Miller.
09:15:16 All in favor of Councilwoman Mulhern, please raise
09:15:20 your hand.
09:15:22 That's three.
09:15:23 All in favor of Mr. Caetano, please raise your hand.
09:15:32 Two.
09:15:33 All in favor of Gwen Miller, please raise your hand.
09:15:36 Two.
09:15:38 Okay.
09:15:39 We start again.
09:15:40 Is there a nomination for chair?
09:15:48 >>> I nominate Councilwoman Gwen Miller for chair of
09:15:51 the Community Redevelopment Agency.
09:15:52 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Councilwoman Miller has been
09:15:57 nominated.
09:15:58 Is there another nomination?
09:16:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I nominate Ms. Mulhern for chair of
09:16:03 CRA.
09:16:06 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Ms. Mulhern has been

09:16:09 nominated.
09:16:10 We will close on Ms. Miller and Ms. Mulhern.
09:16:13 All in favor of Ms. Miller please raise your hand.
09:16:18 Four.
09:16:21 Would the new chair like to say a few words?
09:16:24 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to say thank you.
09:16:25 And this will be a good year for the CRA.
09:16:28 We have a lot of things on the plate and we are going
09:16:30 to do a good job.
09:16:31 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Thank you.
09:16:33 Now for the vice chair of the CRA, is there a
09:16:36 nomination for vice chair?
09:16:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I nominate councilman Joseph
09:16:43 Caetano.
09:16:44 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Mr. Caetano has been
09:16:46 nominated.
09:16:47 Ms. Saul-Sena?
09:16:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:16:49 I think the CRA is one of City Council's strongest
09:16:52 opportunities to lead and serve, and because Mary
09:17:00 Mulhern is a city-wide council member, therefore all
09:17:04 of the CRA districts are within hers, had I would like

09:17:11 to nominate her and she has done a very good job as
09:17:13 vice chair.
09:17:15 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Ms. Mulhern has been
09:17:17 nominated.
09:17:18 Is there another nomination?
09:17:19 We will close on Mr. Caetano and Ms. Mulhern.
09:17:22 All in favor of councilman Joseph Caetano, please
09:17:25 raise your hand.
09:17:28 Okay.
09:17:29 Will the new vice chair like to say a few words?
09:17:33 You have four votes.
09:17:34 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to thank everyone
09:17:36 for their vote and I will follow Ms. Miller.
09:17:38 I know she's been in that position.
09:17:41 And I think I could accomplish, even though I'm not
09:17:45 city-wide, I think I can accomplish the task.
09:17:47 Thank you.
09:17:50 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Thank you and congratulations
09:17:53 to the new officers and I would like to turn the
09:17:58 meeting over to the chair.
09:17:59 Thank you.
09:18:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you for conducting the election

09:18:06 for the office of the board.
09:18:07 I think you did an outstanding job.
09:18:09 We will continue our agenda at this time.
09:18:12 The prayer and pledge have been done.
09:18:13 Next is the presentation of honoring the firefighters
09:18:17 for the work they have done in the muscular dystrophy
09:18:20 association, Jerry's kids.
09:18:22 So I am going to ask the appropriate persons to come
09:18:26 forward at this time, the fire department and those
09:18:29 who are involved with MDA.
09:18:37 I think captain Jay KAHANS is here.
09:18:50 Okay.
09:18:52 Council, again it's my pleasure to recognize our Tampa
09:19:08 firefighters and those who work with Tampa
09:19:11 firefighters and commendation on behalf of the entire
09:19:15 board of City Council.
09:19:16 Let me just say that the muscular dystrophy
09:19:20 association and Jerry's kids has gone on for a number
09:19:23 of years.
09:19:25 Since 1954.
09:19:26 Our firefighters have been very much involved and do
09:19:28 an outstanding job, outstanding job in being involved

09:19:32 with this and touching lives of so many children.
09:19:35 So I won't take the time to read all of this, but it
09:19:40 commends firefighters for their work and their effort
09:19:42 and for the job that they do, and all those that are
09:19:45 involved.
09:19:45 And, you know, we just can't do enough.
09:19:48 We look and see the disease and those who it would
09:19:54 effect, more importantly those who give so much,
09:19:57 especially in our economy now, with the downturn, we
09:20:00 still need to be there to support them and give them
09:20:02 the extra boost and help that they need.
09:20:05 So today on behalf of City Council I would like to
09:20:07 make this presentation to you and to those who are
09:20:13 here.
09:20:13 >>> Councilman Scott, council, thank you very much.
09:20:17 It been a long standing tradition, the firefighters
09:20:20 working well with MDA and we will continue on that
09:20:24 tradition.
09:20:25 I would just like to say we have the support of the
09:20:27 full fire department.
09:20:29 Chief Jones is here today.
09:20:30 We have always had their support.

09:20:31 And the support of the citizens of Tampa.
09:20:34 So thank you very much.
09:20:39 >> My name is Sherri, the associate director covering
09:20:45 Hillsborough and Polk County and we would like to
09:20:47 thank you the firefighters for all their hard work.
09:20:49 They have been in partnership with us for 55 years,
09:20:53 and they are the one organization that has made a
09:20:56 pledge to stay with MDA until we find our cures and
09:21:00 treatment for our children and our families and the
09:21:04 individuals that have neuromuscular disease.
09:21:07 They have done a great job for us over the years.
09:21:10 Last year they did over $40,000 and this year we have
09:21:14 a very strong goal of 60.
09:21:17 So we are looking forward to a great year.
09:21:19 When you see them out there on the street, please
09:21:21 support them, thank them for their service, and know
09:21:24 that they are helping people in our local community.
09:21:27 Thank you for recognizing them.
09:21:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
09:21:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Congratulations and thank you.
09:21:35 [ Applause ]
09:21:36 I had a quick question for you.

09:21:45 The $40,000 you mentioned, is most of that collected
09:21:49 in the boot drive out on the right-of-way?
09:21:51 >>> Yes, all of that.
09:21:52 >> All of that?
09:21:53 Is that city and county?
09:21:54 >>> No, that's strictly within the city limit of
09:21:57 Tampa, and the citizens have always been very generous
09:22:00 when we have been out there.
09:22:01 >> When are you going to be out there next?
09:22:03 >>> We'll be out there starting three Fridays in a
09:22:05 row.
09:22:05 Each shift takes a Friday, starting April 17th.
09:22:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Good luck to you.
09:22:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:22:13 The chair now yield to the honorable Charlie Miranda.
09:22:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, honorable
09:22:36 members of Tampa City Council.
09:22:38 We are here today to honor an individual, and at the
09:22:42 same time I'm saddened by this individual's departure
09:22:46 from the city.
09:22:47 This individual has been with the city for 31 years.
09:22:52 Jim and his department run one of the best operations

09:22:55 of any city, of any city in the country.
09:23:00 I'm going to read this commendation, because for 31
09:23:04 years of dedicated service to the City of Tampa,
09:23:07 there's only been two individuals in the last 40 years
09:23:12 that have held the position that he has had, and he's
09:23:17 a government financial officer, and he worked very
09:23:20 hard, and he's been awarded, the city has, through his
09:23:24 efforts for distinguished service from the association
09:23:28 of budgeting awards, many, many times for 21 years.
09:23:32 He has served under five mayors, and nine council
09:23:36 members.
09:23:38 You really like punishment.
09:23:40 [ Laughter ]
09:23:42 I wish Jim and his family well-being.
09:23:46 The city, in my opinion, is going to greatly miss him.
09:23:50 He's the only one that I know that can squeeze copper
09:23:53 out of a penny.
09:23:54 He's very difficult to give money to departments
09:23:57 without clarification of where it's going, how is it
09:24:00 going to be spent and what is the return to the city
09:24:03 going to be?
09:24:05 He is an individual who shows up to work and doesn't

09:24:09 look at the clock.
09:24:12 He's here way after 5:00.
09:24:15 I can vouch for that.
09:24:18 And he deserves more than a commendation.
09:24:22 But I think 31 years of dedicated service and the
09:24:26 memories that he leaves with all the city departments,
09:24:35 is an individual that has done far and above what his
09:24:38 job description called for.
09:24:40 And, ladies and gentlemen, I'm talking about Jim
09:24:45 Stefan and his fine crew.
09:24:48 Would you please come up?
09:24:50 [ Applause ]
09:24:50 All the financial department managers, members, and
09:25:27 everyone else.
09:26:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Jim, you are going to have to
09:26:12 authorize a bigger room for us.
09:26:34 >>JIM STEFAN: I have been before you a number of times
09:26:36 and this is probably the most difficult.
09:26:38 But I have been here for over 30 years, and as I
09:26:44 reflect back, there's probably two things that really
09:26:49 mean something to me.
09:26:51 The first one, as Charlie was saying, is that there's

09:26:57 been a lot of mayors, there's been a lot of City
09:27:00 Council, a lot of department heads, a lot of employees
09:27:03 that I have met over time.
09:27:04 And that's perhaps the most important thing, is the
09:27:07 friendship and camaraderie of everybody -- and I am
09:27:14 going to miss that.
09:27:15 And the second thing is that the budget office.
09:27:20 I have been an awful lot of things.
09:27:21 I think back to 30 years ago what we used to do and
09:27:24 how we progressed over time on that, and some of the
09:27:28 things that we put in place for the city.
09:27:30 And the whole staff, the current one and the former
09:27:33 have been instrumental in a lot of these things.
09:27:35 And they have done a great job, and can't help but
09:27:40 think that some of the things that the staff put in
09:27:43 place hadn't helped the city the last couple of years
09:27:49 in the financial problems that we have, and hopefully
09:27:52 for the next couple of years which are going to be
09:27:54 tough, also.
09:27:55 But I appreciate everybody, and I enjoyed the 30
09:28:00 years, and I thank you very much.
09:28:04 [ Applause ]

09:28:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other comments?
09:29:00 Yes.
09:29:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Jim, as you are headed back out
09:29:07 there, you have known each other a whistle both before
09:29:13 I was on council and since I have been on council, and
09:29:17 every context.
09:29:19 I just find you to be tremendously intelligent and a
09:29:23 great gentleman.
09:29:24 And, you know, I'm with you perhaps, you know, once a
09:29:30 month or every couple weeks we might chat or something
09:29:32 like that, but these folks, your friends and your
09:29:36 co-workers are with you day in and day out, and their
09:29:41 attendance here today, their faces, their expressions
09:29:45 here today are testimony to the kind of guy you are.
09:29:47 And the kind of leader you have been for the city.
09:29:49 And we all appreciate it.
09:29:51 Thank you.
09:29:52 [ Applause ]
09:29:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:30:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Jim, I just wanted to thank you for
09:30:06 being so gracious and so hopeful to me and to our
09:30:11 budget committee trying to understand the process that

09:30:14 you go through, and really appreciate it and I really
09:30:18 hope it not this council that finally is driving you
09:30:21 out of here.
09:30:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
09:30:30 Okay.
09:30:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Did the CRA have something for Jim?
09:30:36 Ed?
09:30:37 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:30:42 >>> I certainly want to thank Jim.
09:30:46 Mark Huey, economic development administrator for the
09:30:48 City of Tampa.
09:30:49 I have been here six years.
09:30:51 I'm merely a pittance in your 31 year career.
09:30:56 You know, you all have observed over the past years
09:30:59 how the accountability, the transparency, the
09:31:02 improvements in the financial reporting, the
09:31:05 improvements in the operation of the redevelopment
09:31:07 agency, I can a sure you none of that would have
09:31:09 occurred without Jim's support and involvement in
09:31:12 that.
09:31:15 And a pleasure to work with you in all of that.
09:31:17 And we appreciate that leadership.

09:31:19 And the other thing I would like to say is that Jim
09:31:22 has never looked better.
09:31:28 Many of us the last week in particular have noticed,
09:31:31 these last ten years, and he's pleasant, there's no
09:31:34 twitches.
09:31:38 [ Laughter ]
09:31:39 There's no anxiety.
09:31:40 When you meet with him he's calm and relaxed and
09:31:43 that's a sign he's heading in the right direction.
09:31:45 The last thing is to all the taxpayers out there, I
09:31:48 can tell you, you have lost a great architect here in
09:31:52 the city, city interest of the taxpayers.
09:31:57 That's what comes first when I work with Jim.
09:31:58 He want to make sure that however money is spent here
09:32:01 at the city, that the taxpayers' interest comes first.
09:32:05 So we appreciate that legacy.
09:32:10 [ Applause ]
09:32:13 >>BONNIE WISE: Director of revenue and finance.
09:32:18 You know, what you see here today are various members
09:32:20 of the revenue and finance staff, the budget staff,
09:32:23 but as you know, Jim touches all of our lives and has
09:32:27 made such an impression, and mark took a little bit

09:32:31 about what I wanted to say but on behalf of the
09:32:33 330,000 citizens of the City of Tampa, my children,
09:32:37 the City of Tampa is really a better place because Jim
09:32:41 Stefan was a budget officer.
09:32:42 I just want to say thank you.
09:32:45 [ Applause ]
09:32:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:32:53 And the celebration is what time tomorrow?
09:32:58 Two to four tomorrow in the Mascotte room.
09:33:02 Two to four.
09:33:03 So, Jim, congratulations.
09:33:04 And thank you again.
09:33:07 I had the privilege the last two years of really
09:33:09 getting to know you and worked well with council.
09:33:12 Thank you so very much.
09:33:17 Okay, thank you very much.
09:33:20 [ Applause ]
09:33:21 A couple of housecleaning -- yes, sir.
09:33:29 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, point of special
09:33:32 privilege.
09:33:32 I wanted to announce this before the invocation.
09:33:36 I would like to mention that Mr. Paul Wharton recently

09:33:41 died.
09:33:41 Paul Wharton is the father-in-law of Mr. Steve
09:33:47 Michelini who has been an educator in this city, in
09:33:50 Hillsborough County school district for 60 years.
09:33:52 And he's been very ill for the last couple of weeks,
09:33:56 and he passed on.
09:34:02 His weak will be Friday -- wake will be from five to
09:34:09 eight at, I believe, Cury funeral home.
09:34:12 We praise him for all he has done for 60 years as an
09:34:19 educator.
09:34:19 Thank you.
09:34:22 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I would like to certainly thank the
09:34:24 council for all their support.
09:34:25 And I think you may recall that on Mr. Wharton's
09:34:30 90th birthday he came before council and you all
09:34:32 honored him at that time.
09:34:34 He served in a very difficult time in the school
09:34:37 system, where it was changing from a very small
09:34:41 community to a very large community.
09:34:42 Many of the schools that you see that were saved, the
09:34:46 Ybor school, gory school, Wilson, Macfarlane Park, and
09:34:51 a lot of others, Lee elementary, those were scheduled

09:34:53 to be torn down.
09:34:54 And Mr. Wharton stepped in in a preservation effort
09:35:00 and that's why they are there today, to save them as
09:35:03 educational institutions and as neighborhood schools.
09:35:06 He was a fine gentleman, a giant in this community,
09:35:09 and he will be sorely missed.
09:35:11 But thank you for your condolences and support.
09:35:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
09:35:19 A couple of housekeeping issues.
09:35:21 We have Councilwoman Miller will have to leave early
09:35:25 today, 10 a.m. in order to catch a pre-scheduled
09:35:28 flight out of town.
09:35:32 Also Councilwoman Saul-Sena has to leave, or has a TBC
09:35:37 meeting at 1:30 today, will be late arriving for our
09:35:40 meeting.
09:35:40 Okay?
09:35:42 Give this to the clerk to add to the record.
09:35:46 We will review our agenda at this time.
09:35:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: (off microphone)
09:35:57 Before you you have item 27, a request by council
09:36:00 member Mulhern to remove that from the consent docket.
09:36:03 And it will be placed at 10:30 just prior to the staff

09:36:06 reports, unfinished business.
09:36:08 Item -- the second subject is item 34.
09:36:14 It's a resolution that is being requested by the
09:36:16 administrator of public works utility services that it
09:36:19 be withdrawn today for further review and evaluation.
09:36:23 Lastly, item 58 is a request by David Vaughan,
09:36:27 director of contract administration to continue this
09:36:28 item to April 16th, 2009, due to a bid protest.
09:36:33 I am not aware of any other changes to the agenda this
09:36:35 morning.
09:36:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other changes?
09:36:41 If not motion to approve the agenda.
09:36:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
09:36:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:36:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
09:36:51 Opposed same sign?
09:36:52 Okay.
09:36:52 We have public comment.
09:36:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I know there's a
09:36:55 gentleman in the office, Mr. Al Tony Lee, Lowry Park
09:36:59 Zoo, hear to make a brief presentation on behalf of
09:37:02 the zoo.

09:37:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:37:08 >>> Thank you, council.
09:37:11 Today's announcement is a pretty exciting announcement
09:37:16 on behalf of the zoo.
09:37:18 Myself, I love a great dessert, and today reminds me a
09:37:23 lot like ice cream.
09:37:24 You know, ice cream by itself is really good and in
09:37:29 the City of Tampa is a good thing for the city.
09:37:32 Having a competitive zoo as last week is a great
09:37:37 thing.
09:37:37 But today's announcement tops that off.
09:37:41 Parents magazine, the nations leading parenting
09:37:44 magazine with a community of 15 million readers today
09:37:46 has named Tampa's Lowry Park Zoo the best zoo for kids
09:37:52 in its first-ever ten best zoos survey.
09:37:56 The Parenting ranking is the second top honor for this
09:37:59 zoo in five years.
09:38:01 The zoo was also recognized by Pal magazine in 2004.
09:38:11 Parents apply to Tampa's Lowry Park Zoo for families
09:38:16 to connect with animals like giraffes, stingrays and
09:38:18 camels. It also recognized the 4.5 Australian acre of
09:38:27 the zoo.

09:38:27 The zoo was also praised for being the first and only
09:38:30 zoo in the country to offer on-site accredited
09:38:34 daycare, preschool and kindergarten programs.
09:38:37 Thank you, council.
09:38:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you so much for bringing this
09:38:43 to us today.
09:38:44 I remember years ago when there was an ambitious group
09:38:48 of citizens that said let's create Lowry Park Zoo, and
09:38:51 I thought, we have Busch Gardens, why do we need a
09:38:54 city zoo?
09:38:55 You all have made our city proud.
09:38:57 You have given a great gift to our residents as well
09:38:59 as our visitors.
09:39:00 And the fact you have been so innovative and providing
09:39:04 on-site child care and a zoo school and a variety of
09:39:11 activities that you provide that aren't necessarily
09:39:16 financially positive but giving a gift to the county
09:39:20 like the Manatee hospital, and the summer internships
09:39:23 for local children.
09:39:25 You really give this community such a great gift.
09:39:28 And we are happy as a city to partner with you.
09:39:31 Congratulations on this recognition.

09:39:32 >>> Thank you, Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:39:41 [ Applause ]
09:39:42 >> Anyone else that wants to address council?
09:39:46 You may come forward at this time.
09:39:48 If you intend to address council you may come forward,
09:39:51 line up at this time, please.
09:39:53 If you intend to address -- anyone else going to speak
09:39:56 to council from the public, please line up on the wall
09:39:59 at this time.
09:40:05 >>> Good morning, council.
09:40:07 Community activist Michelle Williams.
09:40:09 It's been several months since I have come before the
09:40:11 board.
09:40:12 And the first time that I came before the board, I had
09:40:15 to come with an unpleasing topic regarding an incident
09:40:19 with the Tampa Police Department.
09:40:21 What brings me here this morning is when I think of
09:40:23 the word urban, I immediately think of the black
09:40:27 community.
09:40:28 And now I see with the $8 million that's on the agenda
09:40:31 to be approved by the mayor, I see why, with the
09:40:37 current security, urban area, security incentive

09:40:41 program that the Tampa Police Department will be
09:40:42 enforcing, God put me at the right place at the right
09:40:47 time yesterday.
09:40:48 Patronizing a local vendor.
09:40:50 You know, when people come to you, when the black
09:40:55 community comes to you and they say, Ms. Williams, the
09:40:57 police keep doing this and the police keep doing that,
09:41:00 I have asked God to show me what the people are
09:41:04 talking about.
09:41:04 And he placed me where I needed to be yesterday, on
09:41:07 the corner of 22nd street and north bay.
09:41:09 There was an incident.
09:41:11 The police department was there, 13 officers present.
09:41:15 I had to call Chief Castor who was all the way in
09:41:18 Illinois yesterday because of the misconduct of her
09:41:21 officers.
09:41:22 You see, this time their union will not be able to
09:41:25 justify what I caught on video camera yesterday, when
09:41:28 the young man who was not in trouble told the police
09:41:31 officer after stepping away, "I had nothing to do with
09:41:34 it" and when that young man turned his back he was
09:41:37 tased and brought down to the ground.

09:41:39 Each tase is 50,000 volts.
09:41:41 He was tased twice.
09:41:44 The handwriting is on the wall.
09:41:45 It cannot be ignored anymore.
09:41:48 The police department has to go to retraining.
09:41:52 I'm going to be sending a personal e-mail over to the
09:41:55 mayor, making sure I back it up with a certified
09:41:58 letter, USPS, to make sure that it gets there.
09:42:02 Something has to be done.
09:42:04 I am going to be talking to the right people I need to
09:42:06 be talking to over at the police department union,
09:42:08 because every officer that I have seen there yesterday
09:42:12 were young officers.
09:42:14 They are not being taught right.
09:42:16 The leaders before them, they have to go to somebody.
09:42:20 So the rookies are being trained by people that
09:42:22 shouldn't even be on the force.
09:42:24 I got a chance to speak with the field captain who --
09:42:28 Chief Castor, had to call from Illinois yesterday and
09:42:31 say Mrs. Williams is there, get there.
09:42:33 And he was there.
09:42:34 Please don't ignore the handwriting on the wall.

09:42:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ms. Williams, there's a process that
09:42:41 the city has, to share with you, to know what the
09:42:45 process is.
09:42:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, we have been informed that the
09:42:49 correct procedure of items such as today, which you
09:42:51 are bringing before the City Council, would be to file
09:42:54 a formal written complaint with the Tampa Police
09:42:57 Department, the office of internal affairs.
09:43:01 >> You mean like I did last time and I still haven't
09:43:03 gotten a report back and that was back in August?
09:43:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, my suggestion would be to
09:43:07 follow the procedures, and then one can address
09:43:10 whether or not -- what happens at that point.
09:43:13 But until such point as you do file a formal
09:43:17 complaint, according to the procedures, with internal
09:43:21 affairs, this City Council has no jurisdiction to be
09:43:23 able to address this issue at this time.
09:43:25 So the suggestion would be to please follow those
09:43:30 procedures and allow the process to do what it is
09:43:36 supposed to do, to address your concerns, and if that
09:43:39 process is not followed or is failing, somewhere along
09:43:42 the way, then City Council can address that with the

09:43:44 administration.
09:43:45 But the recommendation would be to please follow those
09:43:48 procedures to make a formal request to allow the
09:43:51 process that's supposed to take place to address your
09:43:54 concerns to begin.
09:43:59 >>> Thank you.
09:44:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:44:01 Next speaker.
09:44:05 >>> Good morning, City Council.
09:44:07 I am John Miller.
09:44:09 I'm irrigation contracting in the City of Tampa so I'm
09:44:12 here to discuss the recent ban on irrigation that was
09:44:17 passed last week.
09:44:20 First off, I'm just a little disappointed we weren't
09:44:23 allowed as a group of contractors, landscaper,
09:44:29 irrigation folks, to just come here and maybe be
09:44:32 involved in the discussion of what we are going to do
09:44:36 rather than just shutting off our water completely.
09:44:44 We are a licensed irrigation contractors, again
09:44:46 landscapers, and we thrive on this business.
09:44:50 Again, the irrigation systems were just shut off
09:44:53 completely without notification, without any input.

09:44:56 I think we probably should have maybe a couple months
09:44:58 ago thought about this a little sooner and maybe had
09:45:01 some discussion as far as just shutting off.
09:45:04 Don't know that there was that much thought as far as
09:45:06 the impact that it would have on our society.
09:45:09 But, anyway, moving on a little bit from there, I
09:45:11 would like to see -- and I'm here to give you some
09:45:14 suggestions, but I would like to see the City of
09:45:16 Tampa, for starters, lead by example, like to see the
09:45:21 City of Tampa when they install the irrigation system,
09:45:23 since it's the highest use of water we have in the
09:45:25 City of Tampa, I would like to see the City of Tampa
09:45:28 install water-efficient systems in all of their
09:45:31 buildings meaning the low volume, the microirrigation
09:45:34 we use, and I think we are all aware of that.
09:45:38 But, briefly, irrigation would use about one sixth of
09:45:44 the water that conventional irrigation would use.
09:45:48 We are all aware the reclaimed system that is not --
09:45:53 it operational for our 2% of the entire City of Tampa.
09:45:57 We realize it's a long-term plan as far as getting the
09:46:02 rest of the reclaimed system throughout the City of
09:46:06 Tampa, but if there's any way of fast tracking that,

09:46:10 it needs to be fast tracked so we can get the rest of
09:46:12 the City of Tampa to use reclaimed water and not
09:46:15 continue dumping it in the bay.
09:46:18 I'm here to ask the City Council to consider adopting
09:46:24 the SWFWMD recommendations that were presented
09:46:29 yesterday, which is the one-day-a-week watering with a
09:46:34 smaller window frame, obviously let the folks use the
09:46:42 wells, but I'm here to ask City Council to at least
09:46:44 consider doing that.
09:46:45 And I understand we are under a water short annal, an
09:46:48 emergency water shortage, but again this should have
09:46:52 been done many months ago, we should have at least
09:46:57 considered having some meetings as to how we can
09:47:00 better conserve water.
09:47:03 If the City Council does not pick up the same
09:47:10 ordinance as SWFWMD, at least allow folks to go to
09:47:12 maybe an every other week watering schedule.
09:47:14 It's pretty simple just to do odd one week, even the
09:47:19 following week.
09:47:20 We are going to use half the waters we are using
09:47:22 already just by doing that one small step.
09:47:25 However, going to the SWFWMD recommendations, we put

09:47:29 everybody on the same field.
09:47:31 There's no more confusion with city, county, who is
09:47:34 going to water when.
09:47:36 (Bell sounds)
09:47:37 Just to finish up, the media --
09:47:41 Thank you, sir.
09:47:42 >>> Thanks.
09:47:44 Appreciate it.
09:47:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
09:47:48 >>> Good morning.
09:47:49 My name is Campbell Burton, Burton landscape company
09:47:54 in Tampa, a landscape contractor and client of John
09:47:56 Miller's oasis irrigation.
09:47:59 I would like to share with you some notes that I put
09:48:01 together about the new water restrictions and the
09:48:04 negative impacts I believe it will have on my business
09:48:06 and the industry in general.
09:48:09 In the commercial landscape injury, I believe the
09:48:12 following factors will be negatively impacted.
09:48:14 Landscape designers and installers, maintenance
09:48:17 companies, irrigation contractors, well drillers, pest
09:48:19 control operators, and all the retailers, wholesalers

09:48:23 and brokers who supply these businesses.
09:48:26 The already suffering real estate industry will
09:48:28 undoubtedly be affected as maintaining curb appeal
09:48:32 becomes impossible and as for the many industries many
09:48:35 sectors including lenders, brokers, appraisers,
09:48:38 insurers, developers and contractors.
09:48:41 Homeowners and homeowner associations will undoubtedly
09:48:44 face very expensive renovations.
09:48:47 I would be very gun shy about reinvesting in my
09:48:50 landscape.
09:48:51 The city has clearly invested a lot of money to
09:48:53 improve areas like Bayshore Boulevard, Ashley street,
09:48:56 Channelside, the airport, et cetera, by passing laws
09:49:00 requiring landscaping and new construction, the city
09:49:03 obviously shows that they understand the importance
09:49:05 and value of quality landscaping.
09:49:09 The new restrictions that include the total shutoff I
09:49:12 believe will devastate the value that's been created
09:49:15 on all these properties.
09:49:16 I feel that the irrigation industry is best positioned
09:49:19 to make useful suggestions as to what steps can be
09:49:21 taken immediately to begin curbing waste potable

09:49:29 water.
09:49:30 That's it.
09:49:35 Thank you.
09:49:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:49:37 Next speaker.
09:49:42 >>> Good morning, council.
09:49:44 My name is Sal Chillura, I'm with landscape pros,
09:49:48 landscape contractor, irrigation contractor in
09:49:50 Hillsborough County.
09:49:51 Member of Florida irrigation society.
09:49:55 Growers and landscape association.
09:49:58 A couple points in reference to restrictions.
09:50:01 There's still a lot of things that we can do in
09:50:03 conservation.
09:50:06 Significant things as far as separating the plant beds
09:50:08 from the turf beds would save water.
09:50:11 Making sure everybody has a rain sensor that
09:50:15 automatically shuts off the system when it raining.
09:50:17 And the use of low volume irrigation as we have
09:50:21 mentioned earlier.
09:50:22 Those are just simple things that would make a big
09:50:24 impact, without affecting the entire industry, as well

09:50:27 as affecting the property values and the investment
09:50:30 that homeowners, and for that matter commercial
09:50:33 businesses that have a large office complex.
09:50:35 They have a lot of money invested in all these plant
09:50:38 materials and sod.
09:50:40 I think one of the things that's being overlooked is
09:50:42 the benefits to the landscape and the sod.
09:50:46 It's not just aesthetics, especially the sod.
09:50:49 Most people think, oh, we can do without the sod.
09:50:52 It's just everybody wants a nice lawn to play on.
09:50:54 It has much more to do with it than aesthetics.
09:50:58 Otherwise code wouldn't require it as a new
09:51:01 construction.
09:51:02 It has a filtration benefit that alleviates a lot of
09:51:06 pollutants from the rainfall and run-off.
09:51:08 Your PH levels can be a 10-point difference from
09:51:12 having sod to just running off the pavement or other
09:51:16 areas.
09:51:16 And that's a pretty huge impact on PH levels.
09:51:21 That's going to go right into your drinking water.
09:51:24 It helps on the recharge of the aquifer, which is
09:51:26 huge.

09:51:28 Water that just runs off the surface is not going to
09:51:30 help recharge the aquifer like water that filters
09:51:34 through turf.
09:51:36 The aesthetics is a small part of that.
09:51:39 One thing I found was a study by west coast turf.
09:51:44 They did a study that compared the benefits of turf
09:51:49 versus even artificial turf on sports fields.
09:51:52 There was a temperature difference of 60 degrees on
09:51:56 the field from a turf field to a non-turf field.
09:52:01 A turf field would be at 80 degrees.
09:52:04 Artificial turf field, the surface of the field would
09:52:06 be 140 degrees.
09:52:09 When the temperature reaches over 140, in two hours it
09:52:13 can have drastic consequences on your skin.
09:52:17 So there is a huge impact, and it's not just
09:52:20 aesthetics.
09:52:21 I know we are in a water shortage, but I think when
09:52:24 people start saying eliminate turf, eliminate turf,
09:52:27 which I'm a landscaper, I particularly don't -- we do
09:52:33 that as part of the package, but the consequences of
09:52:35 our long-term drinking supply and so forth are
09:52:37 something we need to look at.

09:52:38 We can't just say "let's get rid of the turf."
09:52:42 The temperature difference from sod to non-sod was at
09:52:47 least 14 degrees and that's just having dirt or gravel
09:52:49 or something else.
09:52:50 A 14-degree temperature difference is a pretty huge
09:52:53 impact.
09:52:53 We are talking about the global warming effect and
09:52:55 everything else.
09:52:56 If that was done on a large scale it would be a huge
09:52:59 impact.
09:53:03 We would like to see you guys adopt the SWFWMD
09:53:06 modified phase 4 for many reasons, but one of them
09:53:10 mainly being we get customers calling us all the time
09:53:13 saying, where am I?
09:53:14 How do I do this?
09:53:16 It would eliminate a lot of confusion.
09:53:18 (Bell sounds)
09:53:20 Thank you very much for your time.
09:53:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
09:53:22 Thanks very much.
09:53:23 Next speaker.
09:53:25 >>> Kevin O'Brien, a city resident for 20 years and I

09:53:32 work for Hunter industries and also member of the
09:53:34 Florida irrigation society.
09:53:35 Going off of what Sal mentioned getting back to the
09:53:40 turf, yes, it aesthetically pleasing.
09:53:42 There is not, it's a green lawn.
09:53:47 Furthermore, the lawns give back natural cooling and
09:53:51 oxygen to the atmosphere, in regards to cooling,
09:53:54 natural turf and landscape has a natural cooling
09:53:56 capabilities of a minimum of four degrees up to 14
09:53:59 degrees difference.
09:54:00 And what that means to us, if we took an average home
09:54:04 which is a three to four-ton AC unit and took
09:54:08 residential lawns in Tampa, living lawn and landscapes
09:54:10 and it had the capability of cooling 70 tons of air
09:54:14 conditioning, so it's very dramatic when we eliminate
09:54:17 and have our lawns die on us.
09:54:19 In regards to oxygen, 625 square feet of turf, which
09:54:24 is roughly about a third of this room, has enough
09:54:27 oxygen to provide oxygen to one person.
09:54:30 And going back to my term with regards to 7500 square
09:54:35 foot of lawn in Tampa, that provides oxygen for 12
09:54:38 people.

09:54:39 So that's one lawn.
09:54:42 In regards to what Sal talked to, I live in South
09:54:45 Tampa, so I'm very critical on the filtration.
09:54:48 We have had a lot of silt and sediment going into our
09:54:51 canals which I'm sure the city is aware of some of the
09:54:54 dredging issues and some of the issues you have had in
09:54:56 regards to stormwater situations, so I'm very
09:54:59 concerned about that, also.
09:55:01 In regards to SWFWMD, I would prefer to have the same
09:55:06 type of recommendations they have offered to the
09:55:09 county and to the other counties out there, at the
09:55:11 very least, if we can look at watering every other
09:55:13 week, would still help our lawns and landscape
09:55:16 survive.
09:55:17 Thank you.
09:55:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
09:55:24 >>> My name is John Miragliotta.
09:55:30 I have actually been in the Tampa area since 1955 so I
09:55:33 have a long history here, irrigation contractor for 24
09:55:36 years.
09:55:38 I'm on the Florida irrigation society's Board of
09:55:41 Directors.

09:55:41 I'm very involved with the irrigation industry.
09:55:43 That's a state organization, sound irrigation
09:55:48 practices.
09:55:50 The first thing we would like to do is see if we can
09:55:53 get together with city staff and form maybe a
09:55:57 technical advisory committee.
09:56:00 We have got a lot of information that we feel we can
09:56:04 help the city in terms of conserving water and that's
09:56:06 what we are all looking forward to, the conservation
09:56:09 of water.
09:56:10 We have such a hard time now with the desal plant and
09:56:13 the reservoir that we have to focus on conserving all
09:56:15 year round.
09:56:17 What we would like to see happen is possibly three new
09:56:25 ordinances in the city and we would like to see the
09:56:27 City of Tampa become a forefront city throughout the
09:56:30 State of Florida.
09:56:33 It so valuable here.
09:56:34 One is currently in the state legislature, there's a
09:56:36 bill being proposed to require irrigation service
09:56:41 folks, repairmen when they go out to a house, to
09:56:44 actually check the rain shutoff to make sure it's

09:56:48 operational before you can do any service, before you
09:56:51 can fix a sprinkler head or valve you have to make
09:56:54 sure that rain shutoff device is working.
09:56:56 Just by doing that we are looking at saving 30% of
09:56:59 water use on a residence which is substantial.
09:57:03 The second thing we would like to see is SWFWMD just
09:57:08 proposed a program called the Florida water star gold
09:57:12 program, which is -- it's actually a conservation
09:57:16 effort for new homes where you have interior products,
09:57:23 dishwashers, washing machines, that are energy star
09:57:25 rated, that had you also have landscaping and the
09:57:27 irrigation, which you have to submit irrigation
09:57:32 landscape designs.
09:57:33 These particular landscape and irrigation designs are
09:57:36 approved, and then the key thing is they are actually
09:57:40 checked.
09:57:41 Someone who is a certified person comes out and
09:57:45 verifies it, has actually gone in the way it's drawn.
09:57:49 That is one of the big problems with new irrigation
09:57:51 systems going in.
09:57:52 Sometimes they are not installed so that we can take
09:57:56 advantage of all of the products that we have out

09:58:00 there to save irrigation, water.
09:58:06 The key thing with irrigation is where we are now.
09:58:09 There's a lot of technology that can help us.
09:58:11 We have actually have computer-driven irrigation
09:58:14 systems where I can have a commercial project where if
09:58:19 a pump detection detects a main line speak, it will
09:58:23 send a warning out on a computer that notifies the
09:58:26 office that there's a problem.
09:58:28 What we would like to see the city possibly do is
09:58:31 issue variances for large residential home users, for
09:58:36 commercial projects, where we can actually have what's
09:58:39 known as water budgeting.
09:58:41 We would like to have water usage similar to what golf
09:58:46 courses use, where we have almost a water use permit,
09:58:50 where we are given an X amount of water a year, and we
09:58:54 manage it.
09:58:54 That's the big problem, management.
09:58:57 (Bell sounds)
09:58:58 Real quick.
09:58:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
09:58:59 Let me just ask you one question.
09:59:01 Have you met with the administration to talk about the

09:59:05 technical advisory committee?
09:59:07 >>> No.
09:59:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think it's a very good suggestion.
09:59:09 I would suggestion --
09:59:10 >>> Is there a contact that we should probably have?
09:59:15 >> Mr. Daignault?
09:59:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: He will be here at 10:30.
09:59:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Brad Baird.
09:59:24 >>> I met with him at a meeting.
09:59:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's a very good recommendation.
09:59:28 Again a good suggestion.
09:59:29 >>> Thank you.
09:59:31 >>> Jan Buttram with consolidated land care, a lawn
09:59:42 maintenance and lawn fertilization pest control
09:59:44 company.
09:59:45 And with this decision, and also 65% of our business
09:59:48 are within the city limit of Tampa.
09:59:51 Obviously, from a personal standpoint, this does
09:59:54 affect our business very much so, and we have already
09:59:57 lost business due to customers that are elderly and
10:00:03 not able to get out and hand water their lawns
10:00:05 following the recommendation of the council.

10:00:10 I concur with everything the other gentlemen have
10:00:14 said.
10:00:14 I would like to see the council follow the SWFWMD
10:00:17 restrictions, which is very, very strict, and will
10:00:21 conserve water.
10:00:22 But one thing I believe that council should consider
10:00:25 is that all of the constituents are being very,
10:00:29 very -- it's very demanding on them.
10:00:33 And I don't believe that the decision that was made
10:00:37 took into how inconvenient it is and the consequence
10:00:41 of that.
10:00:41 And I understand that we are under a very dire need or
10:00:46 water short annal.
10:00:47 But the advantages of turf have already been listed
10:00:52 and the consequences of not having turf are going to
10:00:55 be, you know, monumental.
10:00:57 And your constituents -- and I'm sure your offices
10:01:02 have been flooded with phone calls of people that are
10:01:03 not happy.
10:01:04 And my office has been flooded with people that have
10:01:07 no idea what's going on.
10:01:08 They don't understand.

10:01:09 Yes, they have been to your web site and that's what
10:01:11 I'm recommend.
10:01:12 But everybody is so confused.
10:01:13 If you would make it just across the board for
10:01:17 everybody following SWFWMD's rules, it would be very
10:01:20 simple, you are still conserving water, and it would
10:01:24 be much more simplified process.
10:01:27 Thank you.
10:01:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
10:01:34 >>> Good morning.
10:01:35 I'm royal lane with Tampa well drilling and would like
10:01:39 to chime in with what everyone said in reference to
10:01:42 following SWFWMD rules that they have requested, and
10:01:46 we would like for you to follow suit with that, also,
10:01:50 with what's happening here.
10:01:51 Thank you.
10:01:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:01:53 Next speaker.
10:01:57 >>> Good morning, council.
10:01:59 My name is Scott Simms.
10:02:01 I'm a landscape contractor, business owner, Simms
10:02:04 irrigation.

10:02:05 And I agree with everyone that's in the Florida
10:02:11 irrigation society said today.
10:02:13 The only point I wanted to bring up is the enforcement
10:02:19 of people that are breaking the current water
10:02:22 restrictions.
10:02:23 I don't feel in my experiences of going to homes, I go
10:02:28 to homeowners houses, and they don't even know what
10:02:32 day their watering day is, they don't know what their
10:02:34 timer is set up to come on.
10:02:37 Some people don't even realize their timer is come on
10:02:40 every day until they get a high water bill.
10:02:42 So I think better enforcement of people breaking the
10:02:49 laws would help as well, because I think a lot of
10:02:53 people taking advantage of it are using the water.
10:02:56 If everybody follows the law, I don't think there
10:02:59 would be a problem.
10:03:00 I appreciate your time.
10:03:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:03:02 Councilwoman Saul-Sena, councilman Miranda, and
10:03:06 councilman Dingfelder and Mulhern.
10:03:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:03:12 All of council appreciates you all coming down here

10:03:15 today. It important for us to hear from you and I
10:03:18 think your suggestion that there be a committee of
10:03:23 irrigation people and the water department is an
10:03:25 excellent one.
10:03:26 Brad Baird, the head of water, is coming over here at
10:03:30 10:30 and you will be able to speak with him after he
10:03:32 speaks to us.
10:03:34 As we know, in this economy, with every challenge is
10:03:37 an opportunity.
10:03:39 I had the chance on Saturday to go to a symposium on
10:03:43 rain barrels, I found out, which I wasn't aware of,
10:03:47 that a thousand feet of roof that goes into a drain,
10:03:51 as it goes into a barrel, will yield 600-gallons of
10:03:56 water, which is a decent amount of water.
10:03:58 I got really excited, and I thought, in my house I
10:04:01 have so many gutters I can put so many barrels.
10:04:04 This is something that I don't know if any of you
10:04:07 offer but I suggest the way to address that, because
10:04:13 that water is just wasted.
10:04:15 Also from air conditioners dripping.
10:04:17 Again water can be used in some form of irrigation.
10:04:21 I went to a plant show on Saturday and saw a lot of

10:04:23 plants for sale advertised as drought tolerant.
10:04:27 Again another opportunity.
10:04:28 Because reality is the water shortages are cyclical,
10:04:32 they come every spring, and we have got to figure out
10:04:34 better ways to protect our drinking water system.
10:04:37 And I really encourage you, as you speak to your
10:04:41 clients, to suggest ways that they can cope, not give
10:04:45 up on their yards, because beautiful yards are part of
10:04:48 Florida's attraction.
10:04:49 But to cope by planting drought tolerant plants, by
10:04:51 doing the microirrigation, and I will make a motion --
10:04:56 I'll do it now -- for the parks and rec staff to
10:05:00 report back to us in 30 days on what we are doing to
10:05:02 in terms of switching over to microirrigation, and
10:05:06 rain sensors, because we certainly should be leaders
10:05:09 in all of this.
10:05:13 >> Second.
10:05:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's moved and seconded that parks and
10:05:17 rec report back in 30 days.
10:05:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To appear in person, to report at
10:05:21 the first council meeting in May under staff reports.
10:05:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Caetano. All

10:05:27 in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:05:30 Councilman Miranda.
10:05:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I appreciate all the information
10:05:34 received this morning from various individuals who
10:05:36 have come down.
10:05:37 I'm sure that their business is down.
10:05:39 And if you compare the downturn in their business and
10:05:42 you look at the downturn in the licensing of new
10:05:48 businesses, people going for contracts, I would
10:05:51 imagine they would run parallel.
10:05:53 We have had a decrease in construction services, more
10:05:56 than likely people, too -- equal to if not greater
10:06:00 than what you gentlemen have.
10:06:02 Let me say the City of Tampa does not depend on
10:06:05 groundwater.
10:06:05 Groundwater is great from 1998 to 2001, we were
10:06:12 pumping 240 million gallons a day of groundwater, and
10:06:16 the wells, and making enormous environmental damages
10:06:20 to the lakes, sinkholes around the Pasco, Pinellas and
10:06:27 Hillsborough.
10:06:28 We lowered that in 2008 through Tampa Bay water's
10:06:34 efforts to under 8 0 million a gallons a day.

10:06:37 We had to big a big investment and that was in the
10:06:41 reservoir and at the desal plant.
10:06:42 Anything that's man made will break.
10:06:44 Anything that's not designed right will not work.
10:06:47 That has happened to us at Tampa Bay water.
10:06:50 We are in the process of getting that fixed.
10:06:53 Hopefully through litigation, the public will not
10:06:56 suffer.
10:06:57 Let me also say that the City of Tampa is very unique
10:06:59 and very different.
10:07:01 We only deal with surface water.
10:07:04 We deal for surface water.
10:07:06 And I am going to show you something, as to why we had
10:07:10 to do what we had to do.
10:07:12 The reservoir of the City of Tampa, let's not get them
10:07:16 mixed up with the 15 billion-gallon reservoir, hold
10:07:20 1.2 billion gallons.
10:07:24 1.2 billion gallons.
10:07:26 As of today, it is down to 20 feet, from 22.5 feet.
10:07:34 That first two and a half feet contains 50% of the
10:07:39 water available for drinking water in the City of
10:07:42 Tampa.

10:07:44 The bottom 4.5 feet of that reservoir contains the
10:07:48 other 50%, because the reservoir is shaped like a cup.
10:07:55 If it goes under 15 feet, the pumps will not be able
10:08:00 to accumulate enough water pressure to send water to
10:08:04 South Tampa, and to West Tampa.
10:08:09 We have an enormous problem.
10:08:11 And let me also share with you that as of today, we
10:08:15 have changed again.
10:08:16 We were going in the right direction on non-watering
10:08:19 days from the week of 322 positive 328.
10:08:24 On nonwatering days we are averaging 65 million.
10:08:27 On a watering day we went to 80.
10:08:30 That's 15 million gallons on Tuesday and 15 million
10:08:34 gallons on Sunday.
10:08:36 That's 30 million.
10:08:37 If you multiply that by four weeks in April, four
10:08:40 weeks in May, and two weeks in June, if it does rain,
10:08:43 I can't tell you when it's going to rain.
10:08:46 And you multiply that by ten weeks, 30 million, that's
10:08:51 half of the capacity that we have in the city
10:08:53 reservoir.
10:08:56 We have a public health problem here.

10:08:59 We cannot continue doing what we have been doing.
10:09:03 We are different than all the rest of the government
10:09:05 because we chose, and rightly so, not to sell the
10:09:08 whole system when we joined into Tampa Bay water.
10:09:11 Our water rates are lower.
10:09:14 Yet they are tiered.
10:09:15 As you use more water, you pay more for water.
10:09:18 I think the last was three or four times the amount
10:09:21 that the first tier pays.
10:09:22 And that's why leaders are leaders.
10:09:28 We have to make tough decisions.
10:09:31 Is it fun for me to tell you this?
10:09:34 Absolutely not.
10:09:35 But I have to present the facts.
10:09:38 The facts are, we are in dire need of water.
10:09:42 And if it doesn't get any better, I don't know exactly
10:09:46 how to solve the problem.
10:09:47 However, in your case, there is a way out.
10:09:52 Again, I'll offer you all the reclaimed water you want
10:09:55 for free.
10:09:57 You just have to transport it.
10:09:59 Some of you in business, maybe you have a water truck.

10:10:01 I don't know if you do or not.
10:10:02 But I can guarantee you this.
10:10:06 There's two connection points in the city.
10:10:08 The water department comes here at 10:30.
10:10:11 And you will get that water for free.
10:10:12 So all of you should be able to sustain the business
10:10:15 that you are in and create new accounts and create a
10:10:19 diversity in your own business so that your business
10:10:23 will continue to prosper and grow.
10:10:27 I don't think the city can do any more than that with
10:10:29 what we have available with us.
10:10:31 And that's my sincere answer to you gentlemen.
10:10:34 And I appreciate you coming here, because the dire
10:10:38 need of water is now.
10:10:40 We are as low today as we have been in the past -- at
10:10:44 the end of the dry season.
10:10:46 And we are just starting the dry season.
10:10:48 So for us to say we are going to follow SWFWMD's
10:10:51 rules, that would be easy.
10:10:54 The problem is, we don't have the resources, because
10:10:57 we depend solely on one, and that one is the river,
10:11:03 and we have very few connections to get other water

10:11:08 like Morris bridge.
10:11:09 I can tell you that the river has been flowing at only
10:11:11 22.9.
10:11:14 We use augmentation from Sulphur Springs at 3.2
10:11:17 million.
10:11:18 We use the bypass canals.
10:11:24 We have use ASR wells.
10:11:27 We have used everything in our possession to get the
10:11:29 job done.
10:11:29 This administration and the past administration has
10:11:32 continued to invest in water resources.
10:11:36 ASR wells is very costly for us to operate.
10:11:39 We treat the water, put it back in, to make sure that
10:11:42 you get quality water.
10:11:43 We pump it out, send it back to the operation like the
10:11:47 water plants, retreat it and redistribute it.
10:11:50 So it's very, very difficult, and if all of us stay in
10:11:56 the same boat, we can get through this, but we cannot
10:11:59 afford 15 million on watering days twice a week.
10:12:05 When you say water every two weeks.
10:12:08 Now, if we water every two weeks and it doesn't rain,
10:12:11 you are going to water twice as much.

10:12:13 Because that's human nature.
10:12:15 So what are we looking at?
10:12:20 We have very little wiggle room to satisfy the needs,
10:12:26 the first need of this community is the public health,
10:12:29 safety and welfare of this community.
10:12:32 I remember former mayor Dick Greco once, when we had
10:12:36 this in 2000 -- 2001, and by the way, from 2000 to
10:12:41 2009 there's been six water emergency ordinances and I
10:12:46 have all at the office.
10:12:47 So what I am saying is this is not unique.
10:12:49 This happens in this area about every year for 10, 12,
10:12:56 13, 14 weeks.
10:12:57 Some years we get more rain.
10:12:58 Some years we get less rain.
10:13:00 We have been in a drought for three years.
10:13:02 Three years.
10:13:05 It's not that I or anyone else that voted for this
10:13:09 wants to do any harm to you or your family.
10:13:12 That's not the case at all.
10:13:13 Some of you may think that.
10:13:14 I hope not.
10:13:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

10:13:17 Thank you, sir.
10:13:18 Councilman Dingfelder.
10:13:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I had a couple of questions.
10:13:22 Is anybody in the group that spoke that would like to
10:13:25 speak to some technical questions?
10:13:29 That would be great.
10:13:31 Mr. Miranda mentioned about watering trucks.
10:13:36 And I think it's a nice idea, but I don't know if it's
10:13:40 practical.
10:13:41 So I'm just curious, what's a typical yard homeowner,
10:13:47 you know, in the city with a 50-foot yard or 175,
10:13:53 100-foot yard, how many gallons are they using, if
10:13:59 they are being reasonable and it set right?
10:14:01 >>> Generally it's a 2,000-gallon watering cycle.
10:14:06 And the big problem with the --
10:14:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me just say, 2,000 gallons to
10:14:12 keep that St. Augustine the way that it should be, in
10:14:17 order to be helpful.
10:14:18 And that's what you guys would set it on as
10:14:20 professionals?
10:14:21 >>> Correct.
10:14:22 The average.

10:14:23 >> 2,000 gallons --
10:14:25 >>> Per cycle.
10:14:26 >> So right now if they are watering once a week,
10:14:28 2,000 gallons.
10:14:29 How big is a watering truck?
10:14:33 >>> I'm not sure.
10:14:34 >> That's what I have been hearing, about 2,000
10:14:39 gallons.
10:14:41 So take an hour to fill up.
10:14:43 So you have to run over to the plant or Hookers Point,
10:14:46 wherever it is, I don't know, somewhere, you have to
10:14:49 go pick up the water, take it to your customer, apply
10:14:52 it.
10:14:53 You can't plug it right into the system, right?
10:14:56 >>> It's a backflow.
10:14:57 You can't do that.
10:14:58 You have to have manually put it on the ground.
10:15:00 >> So you have to -- that whole process might take two
10:15:03 or three hours?
10:15:04 >>> Correct.
10:15:04 >> How much are you going to charge for that?
10:15:08 >>> We haven't done any ourselves.

10:15:10 I'm not sure about the other folks.
10:15:12 But I would say it's going to be at least a couple
10:15:14 hundred bucks.
10:15:15 And if you do that four times a month you are looking
10:15:17 at $800.
10:15:18 >> So that's one customer, one application, you know,
10:15:22 one truck, one guy, or woman doing that.
10:15:25 Now, it's a lovely idea if you have a lot of money.
10:15:30 And that sort of thing.
10:15:31 But frankly, I don't want anybody to be confused
10:15:35 that's our realistic way out of this mess.
10:15:39 >>> Not feasible for a resident.
10:15:43 >> The next question I have is the administration
10:15:52 originally came in here two weeks ago suggesting every
10:15:55 other week watering.
10:15:56 I think several of you gentlemen have suggested that
10:16:00 we shouldn't ban the irrigation altogether, that
10:16:03 perhaps we should give in to the SWFWMD program, which
10:16:07 is pretty much where we have been at, once a week, or
10:16:10 go to every other week, which is what the
10:16:12 administration suggested two weeks ago.
10:16:15 Can a St. Augustine lawn survive if we go to every

10:16:19 other week?
10:16:22 >>> It would definitely help more than no water at
10:16:27 all.
10:16:28 There's currently research being done with
10:16:29 St. Augustine sod to see exactly how much it requires.
10:16:32 The big problem is the time of year in May, April and
10:16:39 May, are GT rates of evaporation, rates go higher
10:16:45 because we have more sun, so more moisture is drawn
10:16:47 out of the plant material and the turf.
10:16:49 >> I think you also stressed the plant.
10:16:52 You stress the grass, don't you, in terms of the cinch
10:16:56 bugs?
10:16:56 >>> Exactly.
10:16:57 So now we have more chemicals getting put onto lawns.
10:17:00 It's kind of a vicious cycle.
10:17:03 >> But every other week you feel there might be hope?
10:17:05 >>> There might be hope.
10:17:06 I think if we went to every on the week you are going
10:17:08 to have less stress, and some of the yards and plants
10:17:12 are definitely going to be able to survive.
10:17:16 You know, the key thing as far as water use -- this is
10:17:19 kind of getting back to the managers ---we have to get

10:17:24 out to the public as far as overwatering.
10:17:26 What happens when they overwater is either it runs off
10:17:28 into the streets, or we have got such soils that perk
10:17:32 so well, so sandy, the water goes blow the root zone.
10:17:39 It gone, it's wasted.
10:17:40 So that's kind of an education thing.
10:17:42 What I think would help is almost have a drought
10:17:45 surcharge for water usage, when we are in these times,
10:17:49 when you reach certain levels, and another thing that
10:17:52 would possibly help the city is where reclaimed is
10:17:56 available, you cannot use potable water.
10:17:58 I mean, counties are doing that throughout the state.
10:18:00 This is not unusual.
10:18:02 I don't think it a legal issue.
10:18:06 It's mandated.
10:18:09 Unless you have well, alternate sources, it shouldn't
10:18:12 be an option.
10:18:13 If you don't want to do it that's fine.
10:18:15 But if it's available, people have to sign up for it.
10:18:18 Or either they don't want.
10:18:21 That's another option that could help with
10:18:22 conservation.

10:18:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me ask one more question,
10:18:25 Mr. Chairman.
10:18:30 The last question I had is as related to rain sensors.
10:18:38 When I was talking to you gentlemen earlier in the day
10:18:40 you said we really don't do a very good job with rain
10:18:43 sensors in terms of enforcement and that sort of
10:18:46 thing.
10:18:46 I think our code requires that people have a rain
10:18:48 sensor.
10:18:49 >>> It's a state law.
10:18:50 >> State law?
10:18:51 But I don't think there's any enforcement in terms of
10:18:53 if they work or anything else.
10:18:55 >>> None at all.
10:18:56 That's why the bill is in current legislation to have
10:19:00 repair folks check them before any system is repaired.
10:19:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So that's pending in the state.
10:19:07 >>> Correct.
10:19:07 >> So we could probably include that locally, without
10:19:11 worrying about what the state is going to do.
10:19:13 >>> Exactly.
10:19:13 >> You probably have some wealthier customers with a

10:19:23 large, nice spans of yard.
10:19:26 What do you think they are going to do if they are
10:19:28 faced with a choice of a $100 ticket or losing that
10:19:31 yard?
10:19:32 >>> Well, economics, pay the ticket, yeah.
10:19:36 It's an economic issue.
10:19:39 You know, you are talking landscape.
10:19:42 We worked yards where landscaping systems are 30,
10:19:44 $40,000.
10:19:46 So it's an economic issue.
10:19:48 If it's just a citation, they are going to pay the
10:19:51 citation.
10:19:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
10:19:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:19:56 >>MARY MULHERN: I might ask.
10:19:57 I wasn't planning to ask questions but I might come up
10:20:00 with some.
10:20:03 I just want to thank you guys for coming and telling
10:20:06 us what kind of the state of the industry is as far as
10:20:11 conservation and solving these problems, because you
10:20:13 are clearly leaders in this, where as councilman
10:20:19 Miranda said how many times we have had the emergency

10:20:23 water restrictions over the last ten years.
10:20:27 This emergency ordinance is not even a short term
10:20:32 solution, it's an emergency, instead of us doing some
10:20:35 more long-term planning.
10:20:36 I think it's a great idea if you can work with our
10:20:39 water department, with Brad Baird and Steve Daignault,
10:20:44 and give them, you know, give them some input about
10:20:47 what we can do to in the long-term reduce our use of
10:20:53 water.
10:20:54 And I think it's interesting to hear from all of you
10:20:58 today, because we have the media asking about it and
10:21:02 all upset about it, but frankly I have only gotten
10:21:05 like two or three e-mails from people, and I think
10:21:08 it's because -- it's because it sounds like it's a
10:21:14 very -- it's a labor and cost intensive thing to have
10:21:19 grass, and to have, you know, maintain it in a
10:21:25 responsible, conservative way, where you are
10:21:27 conserving water
10:21:32 When our sprinkler system broke we just turned it off
10:21:36 because people can't afford to have it all redone.
10:21:40 So you are working probably with businesses and with
10:21:43 homeowners that can afford that kind of thing, and you

10:21:46 are probably creating really good systems for them.
10:21:49 But when you look at the city overall, you are not
10:21:52 getting to everyone.
10:21:53 And, you know, the education thing is really a
10:21:57 difficult thing to do, and obviously it probably
10:22:01 doesn't work, because we are as you describe wasting
10:22:04 so much water.
10:22:05 So I guess what I'm trying to say is I would like to
10:22:08 see you guys be more involved and be bigger leaders
10:22:12 but also recognizing, yes, you know, turf can be a
10:22:16 good thing, but maybe it is -- we need to move away
10:22:22 from that because it's not something that on a broad
10:22:24 scale, people can manage, and at the same time not be
10:22:29 using too much water.
10:22:30 So what I would like to see us do, and what I would
10:22:33 like to do, is figure out ways to work with you, to
10:22:37 change the products, where as Linda said, more to
10:22:46 drought tolerant and Florida friendly, and I know
10:22:48 that, you know, it's got to be a cost question, or you
10:22:51 would be doing it already.
10:22:53 So I would like to figure out how we can at the -- I
10:22:57 don't know if we can do anything at this level, but at

10:22:59 the state level and the federal level, figure out ways
10:23:01 to help your industry to kind of make that change,
10:23:05 especially in Florida, from what you are doing.
10:23:12 I think in some ways it can create more jobs.
10:23:14 And I also think there's an opportunity you should
10:23:16 look into as far as the economic recovery money, and
10:23:20 figuring out ways to get some of that, because what
10:23:24 you can create are green jobs.
10:23:26 If you are working on water conservation and you are
10:23:28 working on putting in drought tolerant and Florida
10:23:36 friendly things, that is a green thing, and that's
10:23:41 something that this administration is in favor of and
10:23:44 is passing down to the state.
10:23:45 So it's hard to track that money.
10:23:48 I'm trying to figure out where it's all going.
10:23:50 But I think that you would be a great industry to be
10:23:53 doing that, and creating jobs and training for people
10:23:57 to maintain that sort of thing.
10:24:01 The other thing I wanted to tell you, I don't even
10:24:03 know if I got to saying it but I have gotten only a
10:24:07 few e-mails so people aren't that upset about this at
10:24:10 all.

10:24:10 As far as I can tell.
10:24:11 But what I have heard, the good news is that people
10:24:17 are calling in from South Tampa to get the reclaimed
10:24:20 water hookups.
10:24:22 >>> And that's a good thing.
10:24:25 That's one of the best things that happened with this.
10:24:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Sir, really, council, we need to
10:24:31 really move.
10:24:32 >>MARY MULHERN: I just have a couple --
10:24:34 This is not a --
10:24:36 >>MARY MULHERN: I just have one more thing I want to
10:24:38 say about that, about the reclaimed water, whoever
10:24:40 said it, I think it was you, was absolutely right that
10:24:43 it should be mandatory, or, you know, the problem with
10:24:46 that is I don't know how you do the enforcement.
10:24:49 Maybe we can hear that from the water department.
10:24:51 But I'm not hooked up to it, but I don't use water.
10:24:56 We don't use irrigation at all in our yard, because at
10:24:59 this point he would can't afford to hook up.
10:25:01 So I hope when the customer turns around we can pay,
10:25:06 you know, whatever $500 to a plumber to do that.
10:25:09 But to me, and we haven't really noticed that much.

10:25:13 I guess we have shade over the grass we have.
10:25:16 So our grass hasn't even died yet.
10:25:18 And we haven't watered for this whole winter.
10:25:21 >>> And you would say that to an irrigation
10:25:28 contractor.
10:25:29 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, give me your cards and when I come
10:25:31 into the money I'll hire someone to do that.
10:25:33 So that was it.
10:25:34 I just want to thank you.
10:25:36 I think you are a great resource for us and we need to
10:25:38 work with you.
10:25:40 The last thing we want to do is to put anybody out of
10:25:44 business, or anybody to lose any more jobs.
10:25:48 >>> Thank you for your time.
10:25:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you all very much.
10:25:52 We are pressed for time.
10:25:53 It's almost 10:30, council.
10:25:58 Is anyone here to request a reconsideration on a
10:26:01 legislative matter?
10:26:03 If not we will move now to our committee reports.
10:26:05 Public safety, councilman Charlie Miranda.
10:26:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move item 7 through 15.

10:26:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:26:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:26:17 (Motion carried)
10:26:20 Parks and recreation.
10:26:21 Councilwoman Linda Saul-Sena.
10:26:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move 16 through 22.
10:26:39 >> And 2-B, let me suggest that we pull item 20.
10:26:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: (off microphone) move the
10:26:50 resolutions 16 through 19 and 21 and 22.
10:26:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: When you say pull it, do you mean by
10:26:59 unanimous consent put it under staff report or pull it
10:27:02 to the next regular meeting?
10:27:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To pull it till later in this
10:27:08 meeting.
10:27:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: To staff reports.
10:27:10 Until then I would like to continue till I get the
10:27:13 question answered because I don't know what 2-B is.
10:27:16 >> Hold it in abeyance?
10:27:20 >> They are requesting that we delete something.
10:27:31 >> We can hold it, Mr. Chairman.
10:27:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then second?
10:27:34 >> Second.

10:27:35 (Motion carried).
10:27:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Public works, councilman Charlie
10:27:39 Miranda.
10:27:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move 23 through 35.
10:27:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:27:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:27:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 27 is --
10:27:58 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry, I wasn't here.
10:27:59 I didn't get a chance to say, I got the information I
10:28:02 needed.
10:28:05 So we can have 27.
10:28:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move the same numbers I said,
10:28:08 Mr. Chairman.
10:28:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So --
10:28:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Withdrawing of 34.
10:28:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And 27 is included back in.
10:28:16 All in favor say Aye.
10:28:17 Opposes?
10:28:18 Okay.
10:28:19 Councilwoman Mulhern, Finance Committee.
10:28:22 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items number 36 through 44.
10:28:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

10:28:29 (Motion carried).
10:28:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Joseph Caetano, building
10:28:34 and zoning.
10:28:34 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to move items 45 to
10:28:45 53.
10:28:46 >> Excluding 58.
10:28:47 You are moving to 53.
10:28:49 Right.
10:28:49 You are moving to 53.
10:28:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:28:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:29:00 Councilman Dingfelder.
10:29:02 Then Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:29:04 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 54 through 63.
10:29:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 58 has been continued.
10:29:13 >>MARY MULHERN: Removing 58.
10:29:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: By adoption the motion -- that has
10:29:20 been continued to April 16th by motion earlier.
10:29:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
10:29:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor say Aye.
10:29:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Who is the second on that?
10:29:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

10:29:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:29:36 Items set in and out for public hearing.
10:29:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved 64 and 65.
10:29:41 >> Second.
10:29:44 (Motion carried).
10:29:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Number 66 is a nonquasi-judicial
10:29:53 proceeding, being presented for second reading and
10:29:55 adoption.
10:29:55 We have a memorandum, I believe, that has been filed
10:29:57 with the clerk.
10:29:58 Do you have a substitution for the ordinance, madam
10:30:02 clerk, with the substitution?
10:30:10 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
10:30:12 A grammatical error within the body of the ordinance
10:30:16 and that has been corrected and that is what is within
10:30:18 the substitute ordinance.
10:30:19 >>MARY MULHERN: Julia, can I ask?
10:30:22 I was not here for the first reading, so when was
10:30:30 that?
10:30:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: About two weeks ago.
10:30:33 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, it when I was out of town.
10:30:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you have questions about it --

10:30:40 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, can you give the highlights?
10:30:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Have the hearing opened?
10:30:46 >> No.
10:30:47 A motion to open?
10:30:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open 66 through 70 right
10:30:55 now.
10:30:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to open them.
10:31:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:31:03 (Motion carried).
10:31:06 >>MARY MULHERN: If you could just give me the
10:31:09 significant highlights of the changes in this
10:31:14 ordinance.
10:31:15 And I just wanted to understand if this had any
10:31:20 relationship to the settlement.
10:31:21 Is it affecting any of those settlement agreements?
10:31:28 Coal Cole within the body of this ordinance
10:31:30 essentially are four changes.
10:31:32 What they really are, are clarifications from when we
10:31:36 amended our sign code, we did a very broad amendment
10:31:39 to our sign code, approximately two and a half years
10:31:42 ago, and these are really just clean-up matters or
10:31:45 clarifying matters, in the nature of either

10:31:49 scrivener's errors or glitch bill.
10:31:50 The first one relates to banners, and when we adopted
10:31:56 our sign code amendments, we had no recognition, that
10:32:00 in the central business district that the height
10:32:02 limitations simply did not work, and that was actually
10:32:06 something that we intended to go back and deal with,
10:32:08 and we are finally going back by increasing the height
10:32:12 of the banners for the central business district.
10:32:14 The second issue does relate to electronic signs but
10:32:17 isn't related to the billboards, it was simply to just
10:32:22 recognize and clarify the size of the electronic signs
10:32:27 that would be allowed, on-site signs only, so that is
10:32:30 just a clarifying matter.
10:32:32 The third and fourth changes are truly scrivener's
10:32:35 errors, just making sure that the language meets with
10:32:39 how construction services division is actually able to
10:32:42 process permits, and also a misnumbering of the
10:32:48 section.
10:32:48 >>MARY MULHERN: So did you change the size?
10:32:53 >>JULIA COLE: No, just clarifying what the size was.
10:32:56 It was very clear.
10:32:58 And these are frankly changes that I have been meaning

10:33:00 to make for some time and kind of got off on some
10:33:04 other issues.
10:33:05 So when I finally had an opportunity, I went ahead and
10:33:10 with the amendment.
10:33:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We will just take this item um and
10:33:13 then go to our 10:30 items.
10:33:15 Councilman Saul-Sena.
10:33:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move the following ordinance for
10:33:18 second reading.
10:33:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry.
10:33:24 If you have public comment.
10:33:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any public comment?
10:33:27 Yes, I'm sorry.
10:33:28 Anyone who wishes to address council.
10:33:30 >> Move to close.
10:33:31 >> Second.
10:33:31 (Motion carried).
10:33:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move the following
10:33:35 ordinance for second reading and adoption.
10:33:37 Ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida making
10:33:38 revisions to City of Tampa code of ordinances, chapter
10:33:41 20.5, signs, amending section 20.5-7, allowable signs,

10:33:46 permits, when not required, amending section 20.5-13,
10:33:50 on-site signs, permit required, amending section
10:33:53 20.5-16, nonconforming signs, repealing all ordinances
10:33:57 or parts of ordinances in conflict therewith,
10:34:01 providing an effective date, providing an effective
10:34:03 date.
10:34:04 >> Second.
10:34:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:34:07 All in favor record your vote.
10:34:18 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and Miller
10:34:20 being absent at vote.
10:34:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me go back to one thing.
10:34:28 Item 20, we can pass that item.
10:34:31 We have an explanation for that.
10:34:32 If we can get a motion to approve item 20.
10:34:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
10:34:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:34:39 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:34:41 Opposes?
10:34:42 That's item 20.
10:34:43 Thank you very much.
10:34:43 Okay.

10:34:44 We have our 10:30 items, our staff reports.
10:34:46 Then we'll come back to the second readings.
10:34:56 The first is item 71, the vacant position of the
10:35:02 budget analyst.
10:35:03 As I pointed out last week we had a memorandum from
10:35:06 the administration requesting that all the vacant
10:35:10 positions be eliminated, looking at a 35, $40 million
10:35:17 shortfall.
10:35:17 I suggested we bring that to council.
10:35:22 However, I am requesting, though, the item that we
10:35:24 pull, keep $1500 for our strategic planning session.
10:35:30 In the past we have had to use resources either from
10:35:35 our attorneys' budget or from councilman Saul-Sena.
10:35:39 So what I am suggesting is that we at least keep 1500
10:35:42 for our strategic planning session for this year and
10:35:50 '10.
10:35:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So your suggestion, Mr. Chairman, is
10:35:53 to withhold $1500 of this year's money, and then in
10:35:56 subsequent budgets, FY 10 and thereafter to allocate
10:36:01 $1500 for that purpose?
10:36:04 >> Yes.
10:36:04 >>MARY MULHERN: Just for discussion, as I told Bonnie,

10:36:13 and I think I said this at council, I think it was
10:36:16 kind of tacitly agreed that we wouldn't be hiring
10:36:19 someone this year.
10:36:21 And when you put this on the agenda as finance chair,
10:36:26 that's why I'm saying, put this on the agenda, I had
10:36:30 mentioned, and it didn't get into the agenda,
10:36:34 discussing the budget advisory committee.
10:36:38 I don't know if we -- I would be more than happy to
10:36:42 continue that to another meeting, if people want to
10:36:45 discuss it today we can.
10:36:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's up to you.
10:36:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I just -- I see it might turn
10:37:02 into a long discussion.
10:37:03 So let's just --
10:37:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: By motion, then, please?
10:37:07 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to move that we -- well,
10:37:10 that we -- I'm going to make two motions.
10:37:13 I'll make a motion to agree not to take the money out
10:37:19 of the budget, council budget, for budget advisory
10:37:27 employee.
10:37:29 While reserving -- how much?
10:37:33 >> $1500.

10:37:34 >>MARY MULHERN: Reserving 1500 of that part of the
10:37:37 budget for the council to use.
10:37:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Strategic planning.
10:37:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is your motion to allow that position
10:37:47 to be removed or the money to be sent back to the
10:37:49 administration for budget analyst this year except for
10:37:53 allowing for $1500?
10:37:56 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
10:37:56 For this year's budget.
10:37:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's your motion?
10:38:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
10:38:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:38:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's moved and seconded.
10:38:03 >>SAL TERRITO: May I make a suggestion?
10:38:06 You are moving money out of a pay item.
10:38:09 You may have to do that by resolution.
10:38:11 The motion is fine.
10:38:12 I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it but you
10:38:14 may have to follow up with a resolution moving that
10:38:17 from that category to a separate category.
10:38:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I would love to
10:38:23 support that motion.

10:38:24 The first part of it, to move those funds from the
10:38:29 salary account back to the general fund, because we
10:38:32 are not evidently going to hire a budget analyst for
10:38:35 the year, of this year, part of next year.
10:38:38 But I don't believe that this council is not up to par
10:38:44 and not smart enough to conduct its own business
10:38:47 without having to spend 1500 without having someone to
10:38:50 tell us how to do and how to run a city and how to run
10:38:54 the meetings.
10:38:54 I think we have that.
10:38:55 For that reason I will not be supporting this motion.
10:38:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:39:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to say I have found our
10:39:03 strategic planning meetings to be an extremely
10:39:06 efficient way for council to order its business more
10:39:08 efficiently in terms of the public, to just think
10:39:13 through a restructuring of our meeting schedule, our
10:39:16 agenda, and I think anyone who has participated would
10:39:19 agree that it made a more effective, efficient for the
10:39:25 groups so I support the funding for the strategic
10:39:28 planning session.
10:39:30 >>MARY MULHERN: I made the motion, but I support it,

10:39:32 too, and I think one of the biggest benefits from it,
10:39:36 which is a great benefit to the public for us making
10:39:41 our meetings run more smoothly, more civilly, and more
10:39:48 briefly, is the collegiality that's fostered by that
10:39:51 meeting, and I really wish that councilman Miranda
10:39:55 would join us because I think he could find it very
10:39:59 helpful.
10:40:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just from a procedural perspective,
10:40:04 I think Sal makes a good point, that the preservation
10:40:08 of the $1500, I don't think under the charter we can
10:40:12 necessarily do our own budget amendment.
10:40:15 So I guess the motion, just to clarify, that the
10:40:18 motion is to ask staff to do that for us, in the
10:40:25 spirit that it's intended, and I think that would be
10:40:30 the more appropriate motion.
10:40:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, with regard to the
10:40:34 first part of the motion, that was, Mr. Chairman, by
10:40:39 explanation the result of a request and a
10:40:41 recommendation by the administration.
10:40:43 And that would require, I suspect, the administration
10:40:47 would follow through with that.
10:40:49 With regard to the second, I don't know, Mr. Chairman,

10:40:51 whether you wish to relay a conversation that you had,
10:40:54 but it is my understanding that the paperwork that
10:41:00 would follow that would have to follow that would be
10:41:03 supported by the administration.
10:41:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
10:41:06 We had a discussion in our meeting yesterday with
10:41:08 administration regarding this, and there was no
10:41:11 problem with that.
10:41:12 So I assume that administration will follow through on
10:41:14 all of the paperwork that's necessary to make this
10:41:17 happen.
10:41:24 I just want to make clear on the record that was the
10:41:27 conversation.
10:41:27 Are we structured or do we need to do anything
10:41:29 further?
10:41:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's a two-part motion.
10:41:32 I believe it clear, it's efficient.
10:41:35 And what is not addressed is the subsequent years to
10:41:37 do it.
10:41:38 To ask the administration to do that request.
10:41:40 So that would be a separate motion.
10:41:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We don't have budget --.

10:41:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, but if the request now is to have
10:41:51 the recognition of that, in the preparation of their
10:41:52 budget rather than having you deal with the budget as
10:41:54 printed, that they would be honor that request, in the
10:41:57 preparation of the FY-10 budget.
10:41:59 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know why we would have to do
10:42:04 that.
10:42:09 Isn't that what the motion was, to change this, to
10:42:12 move this money in the 2010?
10:42:15 Oh, for this year.
10:42:18 I'm not ready to do that for next year.
10:42:20 I think we should just pass it for this year.
10:42:23 We have got six months.
10:42:30 The part about the -- about the money for the session,
10:42:38 the $1500 I'm fine with, but making that decision
10:42:41 about the budget analyst at this point, I'm not ready
10:42:45 to do that for next year.
10:42:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Can we then ask you to amend the
10:42:48 motion to make this FY --
10:42:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would guess that would solve the
10:42:54 problems that we are hearing.
10:42:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Why don't we take up the issues one

10:42:57 at a time, please, Mr. Chairman, with your indulgence.
10:43:01 Could you withdraw your motion?
10:43:03 >> Well, without having to do that, you can vote on
10:43:05 the item.
10:43:06 That would solve that.
10:43:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I want to make sure as long as it's
10:43:09 clear for the record.
10:43:09 The first motion would be to agree to the
10:43:12 administration's recommendation to take the money that
10:43:15 has been budgeted for the FY-09 budget, this year's
10:43:21 present budget and return that money to the general
10:43:22 fund.
10:43:23 That is the request of the administration.
10:43:25 That would be the first part of the motion.
10:43:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's deal with that.
10:43:28 >>MARY MULHERN: So moved.
10:43:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:43:32 Okay, the second part of your motion.
10:43:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The second part would be to withhold
10:43:37 $1500 of that amount and to create in the FY-09 budget
10:43:42 in such a way that allows council to use it for the
10:43:44 strategic planning meeting.

10:43:46 For FY-09, which is scheduled now for the last week of
10:43:50 April.
10:43:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:43:51 So that's the motion.
10:43:52 And you seconded that?
10:43:56 >>MARY MULHERN: Could I ask a question on this motion,
10:43:58 though?
10:43:58 Do we not have a general account for City Council?
10:44:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The preparation of that account and
10:44:07 the costing out when your staff prepares that, it does
10:44:10 not contemplate the cost for the strategic planning.
10:44:13 >>MARY MULHERN: Right, right.
10:44:17 Oh, okay.
10:44:20 We can't just ask to have that money moved into our
10:44:22 account?
10:44:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You would have to recommend the
10:44:26 administration do a budget amendment to give you 1500
10:44:29 additional dollars.
10:44:30 Right now you have that request.
10:44:34 >>MARY MULHERN: For that specific purpose?
10:44:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: For that specific purpose.
10:44:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do I hear a motion?

10:44:40 >>MARY MULHERN: My motion is to --
10:44:42 Okay, moved and seconded.
10:44:44 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:44:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 1500.
10:44:48 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda voting no.
10:44:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, with regard to FY-10 on
10:44:54 the budget analyst position, in than it is now being
10:44:58 prepared by the administration, is there a motion with
10:45:01 regard to the FY-10 budget analyst position, as is the
10:45:07 recommendation of the administration?
10:45:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: City Council needs to have a
10:45:10 meeting to discuss our budget for the next year.
10:45:13 I think this would be an appropriate part of the
10:45:15 meeting -- of that discussion, and I would suggest
10:45:19 that Ms. Mulhern as our budget chair would schedule
10:45:21 that for us, and we set aside time perhaps during a
10:45:26 workshop session or sometime other than a regular
10:45:30 council meeting so we have sufficient time to have an
10:45:34 discussion as a council on the budget.
10:45:37 >>MARY MULHERN: I am going to do that because we need
10:45:40 to talk about our budget analyst, so we can talk about
10:45:42 that at one time.

10:45:44 I don't see any reason for us to deal with our little
10:45:47 bitty fiscal year '10 budget when we don't -- we are
10:45:54 having trouble getting budget information for all the
10:45:56 other departments.
10:45:57 So I think when the budget is presented, we'll have
10:46:00 our request ready.
10:46:04 Well before that.
10:46:05 I don't think we are ready to do it today.
10:46:10 And I would like to make a motion to put the
10:46:14 discussion of both the fiscal year '10 City Council
10:46:21 budget and the budget advisory committee on the agenda
10:46:24 for our next meeting, regular council meeting.
10:46:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It would be the 16th.
10:46:45 Or you could --
10:46:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Workshop.
10:46:46 >>MARY MULHERN: No, I want to do it at a council
10:46:49 meeting because I would like to have as many people
10:46:51 here as possible.
10:46:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the next meeting is the 16th,
10:46:59 isn't it?
10:47:00 >>MARY MULHERN: April 16th.
10:47:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Let's have May.

10:47:09 >>MARY MULHERN: All right, May 7th.
10:47:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:47:16 10:30?
10:47:18 >>MARY MULHERN: 10:30.
10:47:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I may ask, normally when things
10:47:21 are set on staff reports, you set a guideline of five
10:47:25 minutes for the discussion.
10:47:28 If it's going to take a normally discussion you
10:47:30 normally set those for workshop days.
10:47:32 Council, if you are going to anticipate taking more
10:47:34 than five minutes, please have that discussion up
10:47:36 front so that you don't set something that will be a
10:47:39 lengthy discussion under 10:30 staff reports that will
10:47:42 take a good portion of your morning.
10:47:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: May I make a suggestion?
10:47:46 What about the 7th at 1:30 and giving ourselves a
10:47:49 good 45 minutes for the discussion?
10:47:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you do not get a quorum for that
10:47:55 then you will not be able to move forward.
10:48:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: At 1:30 we usually do have a
10:48:03 quorum.
10:48:04 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to set it at 10:30 on the

10:48:06 7th, and five minutes total?
10:48:12 Is that what we say?
10:48:14 >> That's our rules.
10:48:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: For the presentation other than
10:48:17 questions.
10:48:17 But normally lengthier items that don't necessarily
10:48:22 require any informational report or specific
10:48:24 directions are set for workshop days.
10:48:26 That's council's policy.
10:48:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Then I would like --
10:48:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You can do whatever you want.
10:48:33 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to suggest that we give
10:48:35 it 15 minutes.
10:48:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:48:38 >>MARY MULHERN: And if staff is going to report, I
10:48:41 don't think they are going to need five minute,
10:48:43 because it not really --
10:48:49 Well, let me just speak to that just for a minute
10:48:51 here.
10:48:53 Given our history, 15 minute turns to hour and a half
10:49:01 discussion.
10:49:02 I like Councilwoman's suggestion better, put it on at

10:49:06 1:30 and say, hey, we are going to give it 45, 50
10:49:09 minutes and be done with it.
10:49:11 I think that's the best suggestion other than going to
10:49:14 a workshop.
10:49:15 Put it on for 10:30 for 15 minutes that means we are
10:49:18 going to talk about it for an hour and a half if not
10:49:21 longer.
10:49:22 >>MARY MULHERN: If you want to set it for a special
10:49:24 discussion on a workshop I'll do that but all of
10:49:28 council will not be there if it at 1:30.
10:49:33 I can't get a commitment from people and I'm sure they
10:49:35 won't be there.
10:49:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If it's a suggestion if you can look
10:49:39 at the 23rd of April.
10:49:41 You have a 15-minute PowerPoint presentation that
10:49:43 begins at 11:00.
10:49:50 And if you keep pretty close to the schedule there,
10:49:54 you could be done and ready to discuss this by 11:15.
10:50:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can I offer another suggestion?
10:50:04 Council has eliminated one of our evening zoning
10:50:07 meetings every month, so that gives us additional
10:50:10 afternoons where we don't have to worry about them

10:50:12 coming back in the evening, also.
10:50:15 Ms. Mulhern, I completely respect your concern that we
10:50:18 get a full council.
10:50:21 And I personally will be there whenever you schedule
10:50:23 this.
10:50:23 >>MARY MULHERN: I know that you will be there, but I
10:50:26 can't count on people all to be there, and I don't
10:50:28 expect this to be long, because I don't think there
10:50:32 is -- I don't think -- I don't have a lot to say.
10:50:37 I want council to make some decisions.
10:50:39 I don't think it will be that long.
10:50:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
10:50:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So 7th at 10:30 for 15 minutes.
10:50:49 Threat record note the chairman is going to try to
10:50:51 hold us to that 15 minutes.
10:50:53 Okay.
10:50:55 I just want to be up front.
10:50:57 So nobody needs to frown and make faces when I say 15
10:51:00 minutes is up.
10:51:01 When it's up, that's up whether you decide or not.
10:51:04 Because I think 1:30, those that are going to be here
10:51:06 are going to be here.

10:51:07 Those that come at 10:30 will discuss it and leave.
10:51:12 We have a motion and second.
10:51:13 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:51:15 Opposes?
10:51:16 Okay.
10:51:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We need to go to our 10:30.
10:51:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's what we are on now.
10:51:28 That was our first item.
10:51:29 Okay.
10:51:30 Item 72.
10:51:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item 72, Mr. Chairman, is an item
10:51:35 that is coming to City Council because the motion was
10:51:39 not adopted, with council member Dingfelder voting no,
10:51:43 council members Miranda and Caetano were absent at
10:51:45 vote, and council member Mulhern was absent that day.
10:51:48 It was a motion by council member Saul-Sena that --
10:51:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We still don't have a full council.
10:51:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We can come back to it later.
10:51:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 73 and 76.
10:52:02 This is Brad Baird of the water department.
10:52:05 Is Brad here?
10:52:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Good time.

10:52:12 73 and 76.
10:52:15 >>BRAD BAIRD: Good morning.
10:52:17 Brad Baird, Tampa water department.
10:52:20 Here to give you an update on the water supply and
10:52:25 demand as it relates to the City of Tampa.
10:52:30 As I have done before, start with the big picture,
10:52:34 with the -- if the Elmo is on.
10:52:40 This drought index map of Florida is rather amazing.
10:52:51 Put that up on the screen, please.
10:52:53 You can see that we have blue in the panhandle, and
10:53:19 dark red in the peninsula in one state.
10:53:23 We only have one.
10:53:24 I was going to put it on the Elmo.
10:53:26 Apparently we have an electricity shortage as well.
10:53:32 The Elmo is not working.
10:53:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The Elmo is not working.
10:53:41 >> We'll have copies made.
10:53:48 >>BRAD BAIRD: Drought indexes continue to rise
10:53:50 throughout Florida except for the panhandle which is
10:53:52 blue, and experiencing flooding conditions.
10:53:55 So in the same state we have flooding conditions in
10:53:57 the panhandle, and drought conditions in the peninsula

10:54:02 is rather amazing picture.
10:54:04 Hillsborough County is still over 650, the drought
10:54:09 index or dark red, which is extremely dry.
10:54:13 And that again is a measurement of the soil conditions
10:54:17 and how much moisture is in the soil.
10:54:21 Also in the big picture, the Hillsborough River and
10:54:25 Tampa Bay water's desalination plant continue to be
10:54:29 the only non-groundwater sources providing water
10:54:32 fought region.
10:54:34 The Tampa Bay water desalination plant is producing 15
10:54:38 million gallons a day.
10:54:39 So it's not producing -- it's at capacity of 25
10:54:45 million gallons a day.
10:54:46 Our current demand last week, watering day, 81 million
10:54:51 gallons a day.
10:54:52 The last time I was in front of you two weeks ago it
10:54:55 was 86 million gallons a day.
10:54:57 So it's come down 5 million gallons a day on our
10:55:00 watering day.
10:55:01 On the non-watering day, it's 66 million gallons a day
10:55:05 is the demand, less time on March 19th it was 72
10:55:11 million gallons a day on the last report.

10:55:14 So a reduction of 6 million gallons a day.
10:55:17 Both of those reductions, I think, are attributable to
10:55:21 the media and their effectiveness in getting the
10:55:23 message out.
10:55:29 I want to show you a picture of the reservoir.
10:55:32 I think councilman Miranda held one up earlier.
10:55:35 It hasn't changed.
10:55:36 Our reservoir is half full or half empty, depending on
10:55:40 your point of view, and we are holding steady.
10:55:43 I wish I could show this one.
10:55:50 Pass this around, if you would.
10:55:51 This is a simple graph of the reservoir level.
10:55:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If you can get the camera on
10:56:00 Chairman Scott you can see that.
10:56:01 >>BRAD BAIRD: That would be good.
10:56:04 The reservoir is at 20 feet.
10:56:11 Excellent.
10:56:11 Thank you, councilman.
10:56:15 The reservoir is at 20 feet, as councilman Miranda
10:56:18 said earlier, the top two and a half feet constitutes
10:56:21 half the volume.
10:56:23 And if we get below 15 feet, that is where we would

10:56:31 have trouble withdrawing water out of that reservoir
10:56:34 and would not be able to serve portions of our service
10:56:37 area, mainly the west end and the south end of our
10:56:39 service area.
10:56:41 So if you would put up the next graph, councilman, if
10:56:47 you would be so kind to hold up the next one.
10:56:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right, Elmo is not working so
10:56:58 Scott is working.
10:57:02 >>> This is one I have shown before as well, the red
10:57:06 line -- I'm sorry, the left axis is the level of the
10:57:11 reservoir.
10:57:12 The red is across starting I believe February 1, and
10:57:20 the red line is the last serious drought we had in
10:57:26 2000, and then the blue slope line is the minimum rate
10:57:32 of decline that we would like to see, so that we have
10:57:35 enough water in the reservoir at the end of the dry
10:57:38 season to provide water to the citizens of Tampa.
10:57:42 As you can see, the green Xes, it doesn't show up too
10:57:51 well on TV, but was tracking just at the blue line
10:57:56 until about March 17th or so.
10:57:58 A couple of days before you passed the emergency
10:58:00 ordinance.

10:58:01 So the message was already getting out.
10:58:03 And now you can see the green X'es are tracking right
10:58:08 at 20.0 elevation for the reservoir, which is good
10:58:13 news, puts us in much better shape, and we have about
10:58:19 a foot above, almost a foot above where the minimum we
10:58:24 would like to see in the reservoir.
10:58:26 Thank you, councilman, I appreciate it.
10:58:34 Relative to the Hillsborough River basin, a lot of the
10:58:40 media attention that we are getting sometimes talks
10:58:43 about the water management district.
10:58:47 And keep in mind that's much larger than the area we
10:58:49 are talking about.
10:58:52 We get our water from the Hillsborough River.
10:58:54 And the Hillsborough River is fed by the Hillsborough
10:58:59 River basin.
10:59:00 And so I tend to focus on that area, as that is our
10:59:05 water source.
10:59:07 And relative to the Hillsborough basin, this drought
10:59:11 may be the worst on record.
10:59:13 I hope not but it certainly shaping up that way.
10:59:15 The Hillsborough River current flow is 23 million
10:59:19 gallons a day.

10:59:21 As I said earlier, our demand is between 66 million
10:59:25 gallons a day and 81.
10:59:29 Today makes 15 days straight that we have had record
10:59:34 low flows for that date.
10:59:36 Ironically starting on March 19th, the day that
10:59:40 City Council passed the ordinance.
10:59:43 Was the first day we had a record low flow this year,
10:59:47 and that's record for the previous 69 years that we
10:59:50 have been keeping records.
10:59:52 15 straight days on that date we are seeing record low
10:59:57 flows.
11:00:01 And again -- and I said this last time.
11:00:04 What is worrisome about that is that it is the
11:00:08 beginning of the dry season.
11:00:10 The record low flow of all time was June 23rd of
11:00:16 2000, at the end of the dry season.
11:00:17 So that's the difference.
11:00:18 We are at the beginning of the dry season.
11:00:20 We are seeing record low flows every day for the
11:00:24 Hillsborough River.
11:00:27 Councilman Dingfelder, you asked me to report on the
11:00:30 reclaimed water hookups.

11:00:33 The reclaimed water hookups, we have had 30
11:00:36 applications in the last two weeks since I last
11:00:39 reported to you.
11:00:40 Typically, we were seeing about 15 a month.
11:00:43 So that's a rate that's four times what we were
11:00:46 seeing.
11:00:47 And ironically, the majority of those are folks that
11:00:52 did not have a reclaimed water meter installed in the
11:00:55 original construction.
11:00:57 So well over half of that 30 are people that will need
11:01:04 a new service and a new meter installed.
11:01:12 I want to say one last thing again.
11:01:13 It extremely important for citizens to conserve water
11:01:16 in any way you can.
11:01:19 Check toilets for leaks.
11:01:21 Take shorter showers.
11:01:22 Don't water your landscape.
11:01:24 If it's about to rain, or it just rained, we have more
11:01:29 than 100 tips on our web site.
11:01:33 Please visit our web site, Tampagov.net/savewater.
11:01:42 I would like to -- if I can find the right sheet, I
11:01:47 would like to give out a few key phone numbers as

11:01:51 well.
11:01:53 Water violations hotline, 274-8036.
11:01:59 That's if you see somebody that's not complying with
11:02:03 the water restrictions.
11:02:06 Our reclaimed water hookup line is 282 star.
11:02:11 Finally our water emergency line is 274-8121, if you
11:02:16 see a leaking pipeline or meter where water is running
11:02:20 down the street, please call 274-8121.
11:02:25 And with that I will take questions.
11:02:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a couple of questions quick
11:02:34 questions, Mr. Baird.
11:02:37 Good morning.
11:02:38 First of all, when will you be able to present to
11:02:43 council a time line for the expansion of our reclaimed
11:02:48 system?
11:02:53 >>BRAD BAIRD: We are currently finishing up the master
11:02:55 plan.
11:02:56 I would expect that we should be able to make a
11:02:58 presentation within the next two months.
11:03:01 Maybe Mr. Daignault has it.
11:03:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Approximate T public is eager to
11:03:08 that are so that would be excellent.

11:03:10 Secondly we received a letter, and I think you did,
11:03:12 too, from Wolford Johnson, the president of T.H.A.N.,
11:03:16 he asked about shower wells being exempt from watering
11:03:18 restrictions and questions whether that's a small
11:03:20 policy.
11:03:21 Is that something that you plan to address?
11:03:26 >>> That will be addressed when Jan McLean brings
11:03:30 forward on item number 73 the amendments to the
11:03:33 ordinance.
11:03:36 Item 76, I'm sorry.
11:03:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Two other quick things.
11:03:41 Currently, if somebody uses reclaimed water, is there
11:03:44 a physical indication in their yard such as a flag or
11:03:47 something so that the neighbors know that they are
11:03:49 using reclaimed?
11:03:51 >>BRAD BAIRD: Yes.
11:03:54 Two things.
11:03:54 One, the meter box is purple.
11:03:56 And secondly we have a reclaimed water medallion on
11:04:00 the curb or edge of road if there isn't a curb.
11:04:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's great.
11:04:06 Lastly we had a group of irrigation industry

11:04:10 representatives with us today, and we would very much
11:04:12 like for you to meet with them afterwards, and they
11:04:14 have a number of suggestions for improvements, and I
11:04:17 think it would be a very valuable conversation.
11:04:19 And I'm sorry that I didn't take the opportunity to
11:04:20 meet with them prior to the restrictions, but better
11:04:24 late now than ever.
11:04:25 >>> I'll be happy to do that.
11:04:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
11:04:30 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What is the average hookup cost
11:04:33 for reclaimed water?
11:04:34 What I'm getting at is to see if we can encourage some
11:04:37 of these people to hook up who have the water come
11:04:41 down their street but maybe the cost is too
11:04:43 prohibitive.
11:04:44 What would be the minimum amount where you don't have
11:04:47 to make any money, and cover your costs?
11:04:53 >>BRAD BAIRD: Forgive me, the answer is several parts.
11:04:56 We have two kinds of customers on or adjacent to a
11:05:03 reclaimed water line.
11:05:04 Those that signed up originally and those that did
11:05:10 not.

11:05:10 The ones that signed up, and they did not hook up, the
11:05:17 meter fee is free.
11:05:22 The meter is already there.
11:05:27 The ones that did not sign up still need to hook up,
11:05:30 the meter cost would be $375 for the meter.
11:05:36 That doesn't include what the homeowner needs to incur
11:05:39 to hook to transfer their irrigation system over to
11:05:42 reclaimed.
11:05:47 That work needs to be done by a licensed plumber, an
11:05:51 irrigation contractor, or the homeowner can do it
11:05:54 themselves.
11:05:55 So they have three options.
11:05:57 And obviously the costs vary with those three options.
11:06:01 And they also vary with how far away your irrigation
11:06:04 system is to the reclaimed water meter.
11:06:10 I don't have estimates for each one of those.
11:06:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder, Councilwoman
11:06:20 Mulhern.
11:06:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: A couple of questions.
11:06:25 You bring up an interest willing point about the
11:06:27 reclaimed meter.
11:06:28 Why do we meter reclaimed at all when we are dumping

11:06:31 all the rest of the reclaimed water out in the bay?
11:06:34 Why don't we just give them an unlimited amount of
11:06:37 reclaimed water?
11:06:38 We don't have to meter it at all?
11:06:40 Because I understand that's done, I think, in
11:06:44 St. Petersburg.
11:06:44 Don't they have a flat rate, about $14 or something
11:06:49 for unlimited amount of reclaimed?
11:06:51 >>> I'm not -- I believe that's true but I am not
11:06:54 familiar with all of the way the rates are structured
11:06:58 in St. Pete.
11:06:59 I will say that the reclaimed water project when it
11:07:03 started was set up as a water resources project, not a
11:07:07 wastewater affluent disposal project.
11:07:10 And that was a shift in the way it's been done in the
11:07:15 past.
11:07:16 In the past, people built reclaimed water systems so
11:07:19 they could dispositive of the affluent.
11:07:25 As reclaimed water became more and more valuable, the
11:07:28 water management districts were interested in making
11:07:33 sure that that resource is metered, and people pay
11:07:37 what it's worth, and grants are given by the water

11:07:43 management district on that premise.
11:07:49 As a matter of fact, we have that requirement in them.
11:07:55 >> That's just sort of a side issue since you brought
11:07:58 it up.
11:07:59 The more important issues --
11:08:03 >>> And one more point on that.
11:08:04 Originally, the project, one of the tenets was so that
11:08:09 the reclaimed water project paid for itself, so that
11:08:13 was one reason why back in the time we chose to go to
11:08:16 metering.
11:08:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The city obviously made a lot of
11:08:21 mistakes in that original reclaimed water system and I
11:08:24 think we need to rethink the entire system.
11:08:26 We can't just continue to go down the path that
11:08:28 frankly hasn't been the greatest path at all.
11:08:32 We have signed up 3,000 homes out of the 8,000 homes
11:08:35 that are on the system, in the ballpark, so something
11:08:40 is not right.
11:08:41 And I'm not blaming you.
11:08:43 You know I have been chair of this -- head of this
11:08:46 department for the last two, three years.
11:08:48 But more important questions.

11:08:51 You showed a graph, this graph that talks about the
11:08:56 last serious drought, I guess, we had was in 2000.
11:09:01 And that's the red line?
11:09:05 And down until about June, the beginning of June, and
11:09:10 obviously it started raining and went back up.
11:09:13 This blue line you are showing is a possible
11:09:15 projection of where the reservoir is going to be if we
11:09:20 keep using it at the rate we are going to use it,
11:09:23 correct?
11:09:23 >>> That blue line is a minimum line that we do not
11:09:26 want to fall below, which the Elmo is operational now,
11:09:33 I'm told.
11:09:36 You do not want to fall below to put us at more risk
11:09:39 to run out of water before the end of the dry season.
11:09:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Steve, do you want to back that out
11:09:46 a little bit so it gets all the information?
11:09:48 Thank you.
11:09:53 So my question is, is there a lot of intelligent
11:09:57 people in the city in 2000 including yourself that you
11:10:02 were in wastewater at the time, Mr. Tippin, Mr.
11:10:05 Bennett, you know, all those guys, gentlemen who were
11:10:09 real bright and everything, what restriction did we go

11:10:12 to in 2000?
11:10:15 >>> In 2000, as I recall, we were down to one day
11:10:23 watering a week.
11:10:25 >> Right.
11:10:25 >>> And that's what the original ordinance as a result
11:10:27 of 2000, 2001 drought period, that's the original
11:10:34 ordinance was crafted based on that.
11:10:36 >> Which is where we are now.
11:10:37 Up until today, and about to switch that to no
11:10:42 watering at all.
11:10:43 But also it where the entire region is right now
11:10:46 basically pursuant to SWFWMD's regulation, right?
11:10:50 >>> Yeah, the entire -- yes.
11:10:52 Tuesday, the SWFWMD governing board passed phase four
11:10:57 restrictions, and also passed an ordinance that
11:11:01 separated out, if you will, the City of Tampa, that
11:11:03 the City of Tampa's ordinance one apply for city
11:11:08 customers.
11:11:08 >> Okay.
11:11:10 So in 2000 we were in a bad situation, and we went to
11:11:13 once a week.
11:11:18 And I think I'll ask Mr. Daignault because this

11:11:21 probably comes in at a higher level.
11:11:23 What restrictions, Steve, did you bring to Tampa City
11:11:26 Council two weeks ago?
11:11:30 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: We brought a range of options.
11:11:35 We brought -- and I don't remember exactly how we
11:11:41 worded it.
11:11:41 >> I could tell you.
11:11:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I have the floor.
11:11:47 >>> We backed it off to twice a month.
11:11:49 Then there was another ordinance to go to no watering.
11:11:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
11:11:54 So it was a two-part approach.
11:11:59 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: That was options.
11:12:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: A two-part approach.
11:12:02 I saw the ordinance.
11:12:03 It said start with every other week, okay, with the
11:12:07 possibility of going to no watering.
11:12:09 >>> Correct.
11:12:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
11:12:16 Hand watering.
11:12:17 No irrigation systems.
11:12:18 Okay.

11:12:22 Why are you here recommending a stronger ordinance?
11:12:26 Why you here recommending an ordinance with no
11:12:30 irrigation at all?
11:12:32 Instead of the every other week?
11:12:35 Two weeks ago, the administration came in here
11:12:38 recommending an ordinance with every other week, okay,
11:12:42 with an option to go to no watering, no irrigation,
11:12:48 system watering.
11:12:49 Now you are here with one single ordinance, with no
11:12:53 irrigation.
11:12:55 >> That's not what the ordinance today says.
11:13:00 What was brought last council meeting was two options.
11:13:03 One allowed spray irrigation every other week, twice a
11:13:08 month, or no spray irrigation, but microirrigation,
11:13:14 hand watering other options.
11:13:16 We got direction from council that that second option
11:13:19 was what council chose, we accepted that, we support
11:13:23 that, we have been supporting that.
11:13:26 >> Who is we?
11:13:30 >>> City staff, my department.
11:13:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm not asking you.
11:13:33 I'm not asking the legal department any which right

11:13:35 now.
11:13:35 I'm asking the administration.
11:13:37 And Steve represents the administration.
11:13:40 So I don't know why you are in the --
11:13:42 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We are back here today as a legal
11:13:44 issue and that is that the water management district
11:13:47 raised two significant issues.
11:13:48 One was regulation of the shallow wells, which our
11:13:54 ordinance going back through 2000 and prior to that
11:13:58 regulated all water sources within the city.
11:14:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.
11:14:03 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: While that's been on the books for
11:14:05 many years, we had ordinances that exceeded that.
11:14:11 They chose to raise the conflict and they requested
11:14:13 that we amend the ordinance, so that we not regulate
11:14:15 the shallow wells, and that we not regulate wells that
11:14:19 they could issue water permits --
11:14:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thanks for the clarification.
11:14:24 Let me rephrase the question.
11:14:27 Steve, why did you, on behalf of the administration,
11:14:31 come to this City Council with an every-other-week
11:14:33 option two weeks ago?

11:14:34 Why is that not good enough today?
11:14:38 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Council member, our situation is
11:14:40 totally different than it was in 2000.
11:14:42 >> I asked the question --
11:14:47 >>> I'm trying to explain to you.
11:14:48 >> I want to focus on the last two weeks.
11:14:51 Mr. Chairman is always talking about too much time.
11:14:55 If you want to wiggle around the question that's fine.
11:14:57 My question focuses on two weeks ago.
11:14:59 Two weeks ago the document that came in front of this
11:15:02 council from the administration was recommending every
11:15:04 other week.
11:15:05 I want to know, okay, what's changed between that,
11:15:09 between now and then?
11:15:13 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Can I explain now?
11:15:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
11:15:15 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Our situation now is totally
11:15:18 different than it was in 2000.
11:15:21 Since we have become a member of Tampa Bay water, we
11:15:24 have lost our wellfields, we have no backup for our
11:15:29 water system.
11:15:31 Our water system and our backup is we use the

11:15:34 Hillsborough River, our reservoir, the aquifer storage
11:15:39 and recovery, and then we buy water from Tampa Bay
11:15:41 water by the agreement that we have with Tampa Bay
11:15:44 water.
11:15:45 That's what we are allowed to do.
11:15:48 Our backup, as we explained two weeks ago, is to buy
11:15:52 water from Tampa Bay water.
11:15:54 Their reservoir is empty, and their desal plant is
11:16:00 operating at less than full capacity.
11:16:03 We are left alone with our river and our reservoir.
11:16:07 We have no fallback.
11:16:09 So as Mr. Baird has been explaining to the council, if
11:16:13 we go down steeper than the slope of that line, if we
11:16:16 lose water in our reservoir, steeper than the sleep in
11:16:20 that line, the citizens of Tampa and our customers
11:16:25 will be without water or water pressure in some parts
11:16:29 of the city.
11:16:30 That troubles us, and that's why --
11:16:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay, answer my question, which
11:16:36 still hasn't been answered.
11:16:38 Okay.
11:16:38 And we can stand here all day if we have to.

11:16:40 Two weeks ago, the reservoir was dry.
11:16:43 Two weeks ago, the desal plant was having problems.
11:16:47 I read about it in the newspaper.
11:16:48 It was reported here in front of council.
11:16:50 >>> Yes, sir.
11:16:51 >> Two weeks ago the administration came to this board
11:16:53 and said, let's go to every other week watering.
11:16:57 That's where I think we should be going, is to every
11:16:59 other week watering, and why don't you agree with
11:17:02 that?
11:17:03 >>> We brought that to council.
11:17:07 As I recall, the council said, why wait?
11:17:09 Why stop here?
11:17:10 Let's go to the next step now.
11:17:14 That was the council --
11:17:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm asking for your staff opinion,
11:17:17 your administrative opinion.
11:17:18 You guys don't usually give us so many options.
11:17:21 Okay.
11:17:21 Usually you give us no options.
11:17:23 Usually it's take it or leave it.
11:17:25 Okay.

11:17:26 On this particular strange situation, we got an
11:17:28 option, and, yes, council voted 6 to 1 to go with the
11:17:33 more extreme Draconian measure.
11:17:35 Okay?
11:17:35 I'm not saying in a couple weeks from now we might not
11:17:38 have to be at that extreme Draconian measure.
11:17:41 But my point is two weeks ago you, Steve Daignault, on
11:17:44 behalf of the administration, and the mayor, came in
11:17:47 front of this council and said go to every other week
11:17:50 watering.
11:17:51 And then we'll see what happens.
11:17:54 Okay.
11:17:55 I haven't heard one thing out of you, Steve, that says
11:17:57 why that's changed except that council changed its
11:18:00 mind.
11:18:01 But from an administrative perspective, from a staff
11:18:04 perspective, from a technical perspective, can you
11:18:08 tell me any other reason other than what council's
11:18:10 vote was two weeks ago?
11:18:13 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Council member, that's exactly what
11:18:15 happened.
11:18:15 I did not argue with this council.

11:18:18 It is a more conservative measure than we recommended
11:18:21 two weeks ago.
11:18:22 It was the pleasure of the council.
11:18:26 That's all I can tell you.
11:18:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
11:18:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
11:18:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:18:35 I want to correct the record.
11:18:36 First it was never a 6 to 1 vote.
11:18:39 It was a 5 to 1 vote with council member being duly
11:18:44 excused out of town.
11:18:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I apologize, you are correct.
11:18:48 >>> Second when the administration does something it
11:18:50 to hell with them.
11:18:51 When they do something it's to hell with them again.
11:18:53 The problem is us.
11:18:55 We have a crisis.
11:18:56 And here is what the city represented to us.
11:19:00 We can do our own.
11:19:03 We do legislative work, not administrative work.
11:19:06 We could pass ordinances.
11:19:07 The other side could either approve it, or reject it.

11:19:11 And that's the way the record is.
11:19:13 The only difference between this planned phase one and
11:19:18 two, because the three to nine, there are identical
11:19:22 was a hand watering.
11:19:24 We have a crisis.
11:19:27 A real bad crisis.
11:19:29 When the water department hit, Brad Baird comes up and
11:19:33 I believe the number was 19 straight days, or from
11:19:36 March 15 straight days from a certain date to now that
11:19:40 we have had record lows in the river.
11:19:43 And when he explains that the lowest recorded record
11:19:46 on the river was, I believe, June 22nd of 2000, what
11:19:51 does that tell you?
11:19:52 We have 15 straight days of record low now, and it
11:19:55 doesn't rain between now and June, when it's going to
11:20:02 rain, somebody must have direct line to the person
11:20:05 upstairs.
11:20:05 I don't.
11:20:06 What are we saying?
11:20:07 Are we saying that we are just going to sit back, let
11:20:10 the reservoir dry?
11:20:13 And there be no water pressure in this city?

11:20:15 Is that what I'm hearing?
11:20:19 The infants born in the hospitals or the people who
11:20:21 need critical care, the people are going to go without
11:20:25 drinking water?
11:20:25 Is that what we want?
11:20:26 Is that what we are saying?
11:20:28 You know, I said it earlier outside.
11:20:31 For someone to understand that there is no drought in
11:20:35 this area is for that same person to think that there
11:20:37 are no tornadoes in Kansas.
11:20:41 It happens here every year, as tornadoes happen in
11:20:46 Kansas every year.
11:20:47 What I'm saying is, we have to grow up and we have to
11:20:50 understand, we have to do the best with what we have
11:20:54 to do with, and these are the facts.
11:20:56 These are not something that this water department or
11:20:59 this administration -- and I'm not here to protect
11:21:01 them.
11:21:02 It's now saying that's what they wants to do because
11:21:05 they want to do it? They have to do this because they
11:21:07 have to do it, as responsible managers, as responsible
11:21:11 department heads, as responsible administration, we

11:21:15 have to do this type.
11:21:19 We are different than the rest of the whole area.
11:21:22 We depend on the river.
11:21:24 And rightly so.
11:21:26 If we had sold the river, our water rates would have
11:21:29 been more than twice what it is today.
11:21:33 And we made a good decision at that time.
11:21:35 Why are we metering reclaimed?
11:21:38 So that I, who is one of the fathers of that, doesn't
11:21:41 have to pay as much for somebody else to get
11:21:44 reclaimed.
11:21:47 That's why.
11:21:49 And no matter how much you have today, as this water
11:21:53 becomes something of usefulness, and it will very
11:21:56 soon, as soon as we get that report, you know what?
11:22:00 If we don't meter it, other areas have gone dry during
11:22:06 the dry season because there's not enough reclaimed to
11:22:09 go around.
11:22:10 You see, it takes four to five houses to do reclaimed
11:22:13 for one.
11:22:15 So I'm never going to have reclaimed, because I don't
11:22:20 use much water.

11:22:21 That doesn't mean that somebody else shouldn't have
11:22:24 what they need.
11:22:25 So what I'm saying is we are trying to do the best we
11:22:28 can to govern ourselves and meet the situation that we
11:22:34 have in a most manageable way that we can.
11:22:40 You know, there's times in history where people have
11:22:42 to -- and Iacocca said it best, lead, follow or get
11:22:52 out of the way.
11:22:53 >> We have to move this shortly.
11:22:55 I will allow councilman Mulhern and Caetano, we need
11:22:59 to move to the next item.
11:23:00 It's now 11:25 and we have not started on our 9:30
11:23:03 items.
11:23:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
11:23:05 I don't know why we are arguing about anything,
11:23:07 because I think we are as close as we can get to
11:23:11 consensus not only on council but with regard to what
11:23:15 the administration brought us two weeks ago, and is
11:23:18 bringing us now.
11:23:21 I wasn't here for the vote.
11:23:24 But I did get a call from the press, so I kind of
11:23:28 voted on the telephone, and I said, and I didn't know

11:23:30 what was in the ordinance two weeks ago, or that you
11:23:34 were doing it, but I was just happy to hear that the
11:23:37 city was taking this action, and that I was in favor
11:23:41 of not having irrigation on lawns at all, until we get
11:23:46 out of this drought.
11:23:47 So for what that's worth.
11:23:49 But I think that's all irrelevant and we have to just
11:23:52 decide, I think these are good changes in this
11:23:54 ordinance today and I think we should pass it.
11:23:56 Really the only complaint I have gotten was from
11:23:59 people who thought that if they had a well, they
11:24:02 shouldn't be precluded from doing that.
11:24:07 I think this ordinance is solving that so I think it's
11:24:09 great.
11:24:10 I think the bigger picture -- and I want to take this
11:24:13 opportunity to say this, because here we are in a
11:24:16 crisis again, and the bigger picture is we have to
11:24:18 plan for what is happening with this trend, with the
11:24:23 drought that we are having, and not just, you know, as
11:24:27 soon as it starts raining again, in August or
11:24:31 September, then we are fine.
11:24:33 Let's not think about it.

11:24:34 So I'm glad you came up with this.
11:24:38 I really, really think that we need to work with the
11:24:41 irrigation industry on this, because we don't want to
11:24:45 cause -- we don't want people to lose their jobs, and
11:24:49 we don't want the city to turn brown.
11:24:51 But we need to find ways that we can conserve and help
11:24:54 do that.
11:24:55 So I have a couple of suggestions.
11:25:00 And I have heard this from a lot of people.
11:25:02 And someone in the audience said it today.
11:25:04 Why don't we make it mandatory for people to sign up,
11:25:09 if they can, to use the reclaimed water?
11:25:14 And then my next question is, if you did do that, how
11:25:17 would you enforce that?
11:25:19 Is it possible?
11:25:21 Because like Charlie, I am not going to use it,
11:25:24 because I just won't use the reclaimed water because I
11:25:28 just would rather conserve and not water that way.
11:25:33 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Downfall council member, I would
11:25:36 certainly like for staff to be able to come back to
11:25:38 council with a recommendation in that regard.
11:25:39 But the way it would work is you wouldn't be able to

11:25:41 have perhaps a potable irrigation meter, so you would
11:25:46 only have a potable meter for your house.
11:25:49 And if you were to irrigate, it would be expected to
11:25:53 hook up.
11:25:56 >>MARY MULHERN: We don't have those separately now, do
11:25:58 we?
11:25:59 >>> In many cases we do.
11:26:01 >>MARY MULHERN: You have the separate ones? Okay.
11:26:04 You can tell who pay it is water bill in in my house.
11:26:07 So it is enforceable that I think we should look into
11:26:12 doing that.
11:26:13 I think there's a lot of support for it, probably not
11:26:15 total, but the reality is we can choose not to use.
11:26:20 If you don't want to so you don't have to pay for the
11:26:22 hookup.
11:26:23 Then the other thing I want to suggest is -- and I
11:26:26 have heard at least a few people here today say the
11:26:29 city needs to lead by example, and I don't see any
11:26:34 reason why we shouldn't be taking more measures for
11:26:38 conservation on our own park and property.
11:26:45 I would like to hear -- you probably don't have the
11:26:47 numbers right now, but I would like to know how much

11:26:49 water the city uses for irrigation on our public land,
11:26:55 and how much of that is reclaimed, and, you know,
11:27:00 obviously it may be the next time we have a discussion
11:27:02 about this, unless you happen to have the figures
11:27:06 handy.
11:27:06 And then I would like to suggest -- and I know the
11:27:10 city was looking into this years ago and it never
11:27:13 happened, but having an RFP for performance contract,
11:27:22 for companies to show us how we can conserve, because
11:27:25 that's something you can do without spending up front
11:27:29 all the money.
11:27:31 And you can save on your capital costs, and you can
11:27:34 finance it without a lot of cost and in the end you
11:27:37 save money on what you are using, how much water you
11:27:39 are using.
11:27:40 So I would really like to see us investigate that.
11:27:44 I would like to see it for other sustainability
11:27:47 initiatives, too.
11:27:47 But I don't know why we aren't doing, you know, the
11:27:57 utmost we can and we have a lot of buildings, we have
11:28:00 a lot of parks, we have a lot of grass.
11:28:02 We should be the leaders in this.

11:28:03 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: We have water energy and utility
11:28:09 conservation committee that's looking at that, all of
11:28:12 our new construction, as you know, is like that,
11:28:14 and -- there was another item that I wanted to
11:28:20 mention, had to do with reclaimed.
11:28:22 Oh, the city is complying, just like everyone else is,
11:28:25 with the watering restrictions.
11:28:27 So all of the parks and all of the city areas that are
11:28:30 being irrigated, it would only be with reclaimed at
11:28:34 this moment.
11:28:35 We are observing the same restrictions that everybody
11:28:37 else is.
11:28:41 >>MARY MULHERN: That's good to know.
11:28:42 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Daignault, thank you.
11:28:44 A resident just called my office, and he has reclaimed
11:28:47 water in his front yard but he does not have a
11:28:50 sprinkler system.
11:28:51 He can use his hose to water, can't he?
11:28:55 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Absolutely F.he has reclaimed with
11:28:56 a spigot he can open it --
11:29:00 >> How are you coming and talking with Pasco County to
11:29:02 bring reclaimed from Pasco County to the northern part

11:29:06 of my district?
11:29:07 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I will let Brad respond to that
11:29:09 one.
11:29:09 >> I can see pipes going in this week.
11:29:14 >>BRAD BAIRD: I haven't been able to talk to Pasco
11:29:16 County the last couple of days but about a month ago I
11:29:20 talked to the utility director of Pasco County, Bruce
11:29:22 Kennedy, and they are actually running out of
11:29:28 reclaimed water, and that's why they have built a
11:29:30 reclaimed water reservoir, so they don't have enough
11:29:35 reclaimed water to distribute especially during times
11:29:38 like now.
11:29:41 So my guess, when I ask him again this month, the
11:29:45 answer will be the same, they do not have extra
11:29:48 reclaimed water to sell to Tampa.
11:29:49 >> Are they dispensing any water into the bay at all,
11:29:56 anywheres.
11:29:57 >>> No.
11:29:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to have -- you said
11:30:01 two months for the report on our overall plan.
11:30:04 That would be the beginning of April, May, the
11:30:07 beginning of June.

11:30:08 I would like to put that record under staff reports
11:30:11 for the first meeting in June.
11:30:12 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: It might work better at a workshop
11:30:18 sort of environment, have a little bit more time to
11:30:21 talk about it, because we will have a PowerPoint
11:30:25 presentation to give, if that would be better.
11:30:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
11:30:30 I'll look at my calendar.
11:30:31 >>> Yes, I just suggest we make it in a workshop
11:30:35 setting.
11:30:35 It might work better for you and for us.
11:30:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me say before we take up, move
11:30:39 this ordinance, let me just thank you, Mr. Daignault,
11:30:43 and also Brad Baird, for these reports, and keeping us
11:30:50 appraised on what's happening on the suggested
11:30:54 recommendation.
11:30:56 And let me just say to the public and to the
11:31:00 landscapers, first off, thank you for being here and
11:31:03 thank you for the suggestion, and a lot of good
11:31:06 suggestions today.
11:31:06 And you can meet with Mr. Baird or Steve and discuss
11:31:13 some of those suggestions.

11:31:15 I believe we all agree that two years ago, we would
11:31:18 not think wee we are where we are today.
11:31:21 So we have on one hand the economy is in such terrible
11:31:27 shape.
11:31:28 Then, on the other hand, here we have a drought, which
11:31:33 forces us to make tough decisions.
11:31:36 Believe me, I do not believe there's anybody on
11:31:38 council to force anybody out of business or to cause
11:31:44 by intention for the lawn to dry up and turn brown.
11:31:47 That's not the intent.
11:31:48 The intent here is that we are at a crisis, it is a
11:31:53 public health and safety issue that is at stake here,
11:31:58 and so our decision was based on that.
11:32:01 And we were told, we get down to the 15 feet level,
11:32:05 that there will be parts of this community, if not
11:32:07 all, that would not be able to pump water, period, and
11:32:10 we didn't want to risk that.
11:32:13 The hospitals being in danger, you know, emergency
11:32:16 care, prenatal care facilities and children hospital
11:32:22 and even our own.
11:32:23 We don't want to risk that.
11:32:24 So we took the more aggressive action so that we could

11:32:30 preserve or conserve the water, you know, that we have
11:32:35 now in the Hillsborough River and to help the
11:32:37 environment.
11:32:37 So I hope you really understand where we are.
11:32:40 It is a dilemma that we are in.
11:32:41 But believe me, at least from this council and from my
11:32:44 vote, it is not the intent to force landscapers out of
11:32:49 business, to hurt their business, or to hurt the
11:32:52 community as a whole, but to make a healthy decision,
11:32:57 one that is appropriate and in the best interest of
11:32:59 the citizens of Hillsborough.
11:33:00 That was a decision that this council made.
11:33:02 So I hope you will respect that and help us, that we
11:33:07 continue to work together to help find solutions to
11:33:09 the problems so that we can help you stay in business
11:33:12 and to help our community deal with this crisis that
11:33:15 we are in.
11:33:16 So I hope everyone understands that.
11:33:18 And with that, thank you all again.
11:33:21 Thank you very much.
11:33:22 Mr. Daignault, for your being here today, to hear your
11:33:26 report, and your report that you bring to us week

11:33:31 after week on this issue.
11:33:33 Ms. McLean, do you want to come and update us on the
11:33:37 recommended changes?
11:33:39 >>> Jan McLean, city attorney's office.
11:33:41 I would like to bring before you today some suggested
11:33:45 revisions to the emergency ordinance that you adopted
11:33:49 on March 19th.
11:33:51 I have additional copies strike throughs and
11:33:54 underlines that are the same as was in the doc agenda
11:33:58 package, if you would like to have the additional
11:34:01 copy.
11:34:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I left my copy in the office.
11:34:14 Mrs. McLean did brief me and I left my copy in the
11:34:18 office.
11:34:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just before we begin, so we are
11:34:22 dotting all our Is and crossing our Ts, if we
11:34:26 could open this as a public hearing.
11:34:28 >> So moved.
11:34:32 >> Second.
11:34:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor say Aye.
11:34:34 Opposes?
11:34:35 Okay.

11:34:37 >>JAN MCLEAN: What you have in front of you is a
11:34:39 strike through ands underline document using as a base
11:34:42 the ordinance that you adopted on March 19th.
11:34:44 Since that time, on Tuesday, the Southwest Florida
11:34:46 Water Management District as I'm sure everyone knows
11:34:50 now adopted its own water shortage order.
11:34:54 In that order, they recognized and acknowledged in
11:34:58 toto the City of Tampa's ordinance as being
11:35:04 cumulatively more restrictive than their ordinance,
11:35:07 and I need to say, both Brad and I attended that
11:35:10 meeting and there was many acknowledgments for us
11:35:13 stepping out and taking the first step on that.
11:35:17 Given that we have used our own home rule power, not
11:35:24 home room power, to protect the public health and
11:35:28 safety with regard to our utility system, we then did
11:35:33 that based on having a more restrictive measures.
11:35:36 What you have in front of you today, I would just like
11:35:38 to go through, and if anybody has a question, I did
11:35:42 speak to almost everyone, and so there may be some
11:35:48 questions that we didn't address during that, and just
11:35:51 starting on page 4, doing the revisions to the title
11:35:57 to incorporate those that are following in the body of

11:36:00 the ordinance.
11:36:01 And as you see here, everyone since we put this in the
11:36:04 doc agenda, the third whereas clause, is out of date
11:36:09 as they have adopted and modified phase 4 order on
11:36:12 Tuesday.
11:36:13 But this still stands, because the modified phase 3
11:36:16 order and its restrictions are applicable to some of
11:36:19 the sources as I will indicate as we go through this
11:36:23 revision.
11:36:24 On page 2, the applicant.
11:36:28 This is to clarify, in addition to a subsequent
11:36:35 paragraph, what uses of water these restrictions apply
11:36:40 to.
11:36:40 When we were here in front of you two weeks ago, we
11:36:43 did what we have always historically done with water
11:36:46 shortage ordinance restrictions.
11:36:48 We applied them across the board except to water use
11:36:50 permit holders.
11:36:52 There has been much discussion since then, and you
11:36:56 have had a lot of input, and what we are doing here is
11:36:59 clarifying that our restrictions will apply to the
11:37:02 customers and the city system only.

11:37:05 The other uses such as Ms. Saul-Sena raised, shallow
11:37:10 wells, would be subject to the district's irrigation
11:37:13 restrictions.
11:37:14 And if you are a water use permit holder, you would
11:37:17 have to comply with the restrictions of your water use
11:37:21 permit.
11:37:22 Then we go on in the last sentence of paragraph "A,"
11:37:28 because we have customers that are not within our
11:37:30 jurisdiction, they are within Hillsborough County.
11:37:33 We are asking for the -- for those customers to comply
11:37:40 with our restrictions because they are on our system,
11:37:42 and we are asking the county to work with us in
11:37:45 enforcing those restrictions on those customers.
11:37:48 Now, since that time, I need to point out that the
11:37:51 water management district by incorporating our
11:37:53 ordinance into their order directed Hillsborough
11:37:56 County to enforce our restrictions on our customers in
11:38:00 Hillsborough County.
11:38:02 So that was placed in there before that order was
11:38:07 adopted.
11:38:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With regard to that subject matter,
11:38:15 if could you just reference page 10, the new

11:38:18 subsection "F," the ordinance also explicitly gives
11:38:24 Hillsborough County the enforcement powers under this
11:38:27 ordinance.
11:38:27 Is that correct?
11:38:28 In addition to that statement?
11:38:31 >>JAN MCLEAN: That's right.
11:38:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: In addition to the statement on page
11:38:35 2.
11:38:35 >>JAN MCLEAN: That's right.
11:38:37 And that has been in our previous version.
11:38:39 We had delegated to them the ability to incorporate
11:38:42 our ordinance into their ordinances so that they could
11:38:45 enforce them.
11:38:46 Now, the district has directed them --
11:38:49 Ms. McLean, I hate to do this, but expeditiously run
11:38:53 through them without a lot of the commentary.
11:38:55 It is 20 minutes to 12.
11:38:57 And a council member will be leaving us shortly.
11:39:01 So if you can expeditiously highlight the strike
11:39:03 throughs as well.
11:39:04 >>JAN MCLEAN: Yes, sir.
11:39:05 Page 4 we have included the chemicals on lawns and

11:39:12 encouraging spot treatment instead of broadcast
11:39:14 application to be able to actually water them and
11:39:17 using the hand watering.
11:39:23 There are some edit here for grammatical purposes.
11:39:27 On page 5, again, just to clarify that these are
11:39:33 restrictions that are applicable to the City of Tampa
11:39:36 customers.
11:39:40 Page 6, there was a request that the director of the
11:39:45 water department provide a report in written format
11:39:49 back to the mayor and the council with regard to any
11:39:52 variances that are issued, so that you would have
11:39:55 notices to what actions were being taken.
11:39:57 >> This is new, council, because it wasn't in last
11:40:00 time, I requested it be added in there.
11:40:03 >> Good.
11:40:05 >>JAN MCLEAN: And we have indicate wad the minimum
11:40:06 amounts of information would be included in there.
11:40:08 Again, in paragraph "E," the clarification as to the
11:40:12 authority of southwest water management district and
11:40:16 the application of these restrictions to customers of
11:40:18 our system only.
11:40:21 Paragraph "E" is a change, historically we have had

11:40:25 the appeals from the variances that have been denied
11:40:30 come back to council, in the interim, on page 7,
11:40:36 paragraph "E."
11:40:38 The appeals process.
11:40:42 In the interim, we have established an appeals,
11:40:46 interim appeals procedure, so we are going to rely on
11:40:51 that code section, which is chapter 1-19, where we
11:40:56 would follow that appeals process.
11:40:58 So that's what is incorporated now in paragraph "E."
11:41:02 There's no changes on page 8.
11:41:05 On page 9, paragraph "C," we have an indication for
11:41:10 those folks that live in deed restricted communities
11:41:14 that might be subject to standards of the homeowners
11:41:16 association, or other entities, if they are made to
11:41:24 comply with such standards which would cause them to
11:41:26 violate our water shortage restrictions, the city
11:41:28 would consider that the enforcer of the standards
11:41:33 would also be in violation of our restrictions, and
11:41:36 that's what that incorporates in here.
11:41:39 Also, in "D," because ponds are not regulated under
11:41:45 our restrictions, we wanted to make sure that folks
11:41:48 knew that when your pump starts to go dry, which is a

11:41:52 self-regulating thing, that you cannot take your hose
11:41:55 from our water system and augment the pond, and this
11:42:00 has a violation level of what that would be in there.
11:42:04 At the bottom of page 9 and continuing on to the top
11:42:07 of page 10, and also in paragraph "F," there is some
11:42:11 revision there based on legal review, that found it
11:42:16 was more appropriate that that be stricken from the
11:42:19 ordinance.
11:42:20 And the bottom of page 10, section 4, we wanted to
11:42:24 make it clear that if there were requirements in our
11:42:27 code, if a person proposed a landscape plan that
11:42:31 included turf, our code requires that it be irrigated.
11:42:36 And we wanted to not place that person in a position
11:42:40 of not being able to comply with their plan and our
11:42:44 code and our water shortage restriction.
11:42:47 So this ordinance will supersede those requirements
11:42:51 for the pendency of this ordinance.
11:42:55 And then the very last on page 11, on your ordinance
11:42:59 on March 19th, there was no end date.
11:43:02 It was just going to be in effect until repealed.
11:43:05 That's what we have done in the past.
11:43:06 What we have indicated here is that the end date would

11:43:09 be October 1st.
11:43:10 Of course it could be revised, repealed or extended.
11:43:13 And we can report back on what the status of the
11:43:17 conditions are.
11:43:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On this, too, there was no sunset date
11:43:21 and I requested they add a sunset date with the
11:43:23 understanding that we can actually terminate this
11:43:27 before this particular date which is October 1st.
11:43:32 Okay.
11:43:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question about that.
11:43:35 First of all, I think this last part section 6 is
11:43:38 missing a verb.
11:43:39 Take a look at it.
11:43:41 But the construction -- it's squirrely.
11:43:47 Who decides the date will be terminated? There's
11:43:49 no -- it doesn't say council.
11:43:51 It doesn't say the administration.
11:43:53 It doesn't say -- it doesn't indicate how it could be
11:43:59 stopped prior to October 1st.
11:44:01 >>JAN MCLEAN: Well, it is anticipated much like when
11:44:06 staff brought to you the recommendations based on the
11:44:09 conditions that were hydrologically and with regard to

11:44:14 our system, we would bring you that staff report and
11:44:17 say we are at a level that we would recommend that you
11:44:21 might repeal this ordinance and go to another level of
11:44:23 restrictions, or whatever.
11:44:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So, in other words, it's staff
11:44:29 dependent.
11:44:29 Council is depending on staff and council has the
11:44:31 ability to repeal this?
11:44:36 >>JAN MCLEAN: We would be bringing you that
11:44:37 recommendation, yes.
11:44:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could we initiate the question,
11:44:41 like it's been raining, don't we get to repeal this?
11:44:45 >>> Yes, ma'am.
11:44:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It not clear.
11:44:48 >>> The way these are done they are -- the way ours
11:44:58 has typically been done, shouldn't we have a sunset
11:45:02 date in here?
11:45:02 I don't think there's any expectation that we are
11:45:05 going to actually go till October but that seems like
11:45:08 an outlier date that was safe to put in the ordinance.
11:45:10 And when we reach a better hydrologic condition the
11:45:13 expectation is we would recommendation the water

11:45:16 department would recommend repeal or modification of
11:45:18 this ordinance at that time.
11:45:19 Which I think talking to Brad we are hoping it's going
11:45:22 to be mid summer to late summer.
11:45:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But council, just to clarify, it
11:45:28 isn't clear here.
11:45:29 Council would have the ability to say we think it's
11:45:31 time, don't you?
11:45:32 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes, I believe so.
11:45:34 That's correct.
11:45:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's clear in here to you.
11:45:36 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: It's not clear in this ordinance
11:45:40 but it is clear in the way -- under the rules that
11:45:44 council follows in enacting ordinances.
11:45:48 So if you want us to come back and clarify that, I
11:45:51 suppose we could, but I don't think there's any
11:45:53 question to repeal this.
11:45:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: This knowledge an emergency
11:45:59 ordinance, the suggestion was made that barring any
11:46:05 affirmative action be taken, for whatever reason it
11:46:08 does not -- almost forces action to be taken to
11:46:11 recognize whether or not there's still emergency by

11:46:13 the date of October, because that's when it would stop
11:46:16 taking effect if no action was taken.
11:46:19 So that's to at least come back by that date, rather
11:46:23 than to have an emergency that would go on forever.
11:46:28 But with regard to how an ordinance -- any legislative
11:46:31 matter, this is a legislative matter of council, you
11:46:34 have the right to bring the subject up at any time to
11:46:38 address the subject matter.
11:46:42 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I may, we would have an
11:46:43 obligation to repeal -- or to modify it at the point
11:46:47 that the emergency no longer exists.
11:46:49 So in that regard, you will hear from us, from the
11:46:53 staff, as soon as that condition changed.
11:46:55 >>MARY MULHERN: I should have brought this up earlier,
11:46:58 but I thought somebody else might.
11:47:02 Another question we got from Mr. Johnson, Wolford
11:47:07 Johnson, who is the neighborhood of the neighborhood
11:47:09 association, was about swimming pools, and he had a
11:47:12 suggestion to restrict the installation of new
11:47:16 swimming pools during the drought.
11:47:18 But I'm sure we can't do that, but could we limit
11:47:23 people from filling a new pool during the drought?

11:47:29 We can't tell people not to put in a pool.
11:47:32 >>JAN MCLEAN: We actually have -- on page 4, paragraph
11:47:38 "O," the filling of swimming pools not using a filter
11:47:41 and recirculating system shall be prohibited.
11:47:49 >>MARY MULHERN: So it just for consideration.
11:47:51 I'm not suggesting we change it right now.
11:47:56 I don't know that there are going to be that many new
11:48:01 swimming pools put in in the City of Tampa in the
11:48:03 summer.
11:48:04 But if we could maybe look into that, if that's a lot
11:48:07 of water use.
11:48:11 >>JAN MCLEAN: We can look into it.
11:48:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Would it be worth it for us to add
11:48:15 that or change that language.
11:48:18 >>JAN MCLEAN: The request would to be prohibit the
11:48:20 installation of --
11:48:21 >>MARY MULHERN: No.
11:48:22 I'm saying, if you could -- just as you are not
11:48:25 allowing watering, you would not allow a new pool to
11:48:30 be filled.
11:48:32 Because all existing pools have filter systems, and
11:48:38 you can't not keep filled.

11:48:40 But if haven't filled it and started it in the first
11:48:43 place.
11:48:43 >>JAN MCLEAN: We can come back and report back to you
11:48:47 with regard to looking into it.
11:48:49 And provide the information.
11:48:50 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know if it's worth putting
11:48:52 into the ordinance, if we save that much water.
11:48:55 But if you find there's a lot of brand new swimming
11:48:57 pools this season.
11:48:58 >>JAN MCLEAN: I think what you will find -- and we
11:49:02 heard then with regard to fountains -- to the extent
11:49:04 that in order to comply with manufacturers warranty,
11:49:08 there needs to be potentially an initial fill, and
11:49:11 that would protect their warranty.
11:49:13 But we can bring that information back to you.
11:49:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, thank you.
11:49:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I just want to
11:49:21 reiterate that whatever the general public is going to
11:49:24 be covered under this ordinance, that all city
11:49:28 vehicles are covered under the same ordinance
11:49:30 including fire trucks and everything else.
11:49:33 That's the only statement I want to make.

11:49:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:49:41 >>JAN McLEAN: Are there any other questions?
11:49:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, briefly, you all came to
11:49:45 us because you said this was an emergency.
11:49:47 Can you tell us when the emergency is over?
11:49:51 I mean, tell us when the reservoir reaches X, or -- I
11:49:55 feel like we need some kind of specific measurement to
11:50:01 know when the emergency is over.
11:50:03 >>> My understanding, I think Brad comes and gives you
11:50:07 a conditions report.
11:50:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I feel like the public -- some of
11:50:14 the public are angry at us because I have got gone to
11:50:17 several cocktail parties about people lawns dying so I
11:50:21 want to say, whenever it is, when the reservoir is 20
11:50:24 feet, when the whatever, you need to tell us, when
11:50:27 will we know that the emergency is over?
11:50:32 >>> The one chart I showed with the blue line, the
11:50:35 blue slope line and the green X'es, when the rains
11:50:40 begin again, and the river flows come back up, and the
11:50:46 curb like you saw in 2000 starts going back up, the
11:50:51 emergency will be over.
11:50:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So when the curve goes up the

11:50:57 emergency is over?
11:50:59 >>BRAD BAIRD: That's right.
11:51:00 But you have to have a trend, obviously a week or so,
11:51:03 to see this going back up, not just temporarily, but
11:51:05 then drop back down.
11:51:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I feel that's a deficiency in this
11:51:10 ordinance that the word emergency is a little
11:51:12 nebulous, a combination of ingredients, and I
11:51:15 certainly have time in the next two months for you to
11:51:17 come back to us with some specific language that we'll
11:51:20 know when the emergency is over.
11:51:25 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Where is that specific part about
11:51:27 the swimming pools?
11:51:30 >>JAN McLEAN: I believe it's at page 4, and paragraph
11:51:33 "O," line 39.
11:51:39 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I just got a call from another
11:51:41 constituent that's in the pool business, building a lot
11:51:44 of these pools need water, because of the content of
11:51:48 how it's put together.
11:51:50 >>JAN MCLEAN: Right.
11:51:52 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: And if they are in a low area that
11:51:54 pool is going to lift.

11:51:57 And you spent $27,000 putting a pool in, and by us not
11:52:01 providing them water, it's going to cost them more than
11:52:04 that.
11:52:07 >>MARY MULHERN: I think we got kind of our answer on
11:52:10 that.
11:52:10 I just wanted to bring it up because Wolford had wanted
11:52:14 to know.
11:52:14 But it sound like that's not really a possibility, and
11:52:17 we are not going to do that.
11:52:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is a public hearing.
11:52:20 Those who wish to address council on this may come
11:52:22 forward except for those who have already spoken on the
11:52:25 issue during public comment.
11:52:27 You don't get two bites at the apple.
11:52:29 So therefore if you have not addressed council on this
11:52:31 issue, you may come forward at this time.
11:52:35 Excuse me, sir, if you would come to the mike.
11:52:48 >>> Perry, consolidated lawn maintenance and landscape
11:52:55 care providers.
11:52:57 I heard you mention about getting reclaimed water from
11:53:01 Pasco County.
11:53:02 The city of Plant City right now pumps their reclaimed

11:53:06 water to CF industries, and CF industries just spreads
11:53:10 it out over their land.
11:53:12 And also I thought about the city of Temple Terrace.
11:53:16 I have no idea what the city of Temple Terrace douse
11:53:19 with their reclaimed water, so that may be something
11:53:21 that you guys might could consider.
11:53:26 Thank you.
11:53:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think the question of councilman
11:53:32 Caetano was since Pasco was closer to his area, we have
11:53:37 lines of reclaimed, was there an opportunity to bring
11:53:40 the lines into New Tampa.
11:53:42 City of Tampa, you have been dumping 60 million gallons
11:53:50 a day into the bay.
11:53:52 The question is we don't have enough customers hooked
11:53:55 into the line.
11:53:56 So can we close the public hearing?
11:53:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
11:53:59 >> Second.
11:54:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You already spoke, sir, this morning.
11:54:05 So, yeah, yeah, right.
11:54:07 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:54:09 Okay, is there a motion?

11:54:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I move the ordinance.
11:54:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:54:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll read the ordinance.
11:54:21 Before I read the ordinance -- we can read the
11:54:23 ordinance and then debate it.
11:54:26 I move an amended emergency ordinance in the city of
11:54:29 Tampa, Florida providing for critical emergency
11:54:32 measures in restricting water use and curtailing
11:54:36 non-essential uses of water amending and superseding
11:54:38 the current emergency ordinance 2006-104 adopted, May
11:54:43 6, 2006, providing for enforcement and penalties,
11:54:48 suspending any provisions of city and Tampa code
11:54:52 including chapter 26, section 97 in conflict with the
11:54:56 provisions herein, during the effective period of this
11:54:59 ordinance, providing for severability, providing an
11:55:01 effective date.
11:55:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
11:55:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is there a second?
11:55:11 >> I seconded it.
11:55:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:55:14 I believe it important that we govern on the basis of
11:55:17 facts.

11:55:17 And I think that the facts that have been presented to
11:55:21 us over the last two weeks clearly indicate that we
11:55:26 have a big problem, clearly indicate that we have to do
11:55:29 a better job of conservation, but the facts also -- and
11:55:35 I gave staff plenty of opportunity to come up with
11:55:37 additional facts today -- the facts are that two weeks
11:55:40 ago staff came to us and recommended every other week,
11:55:46 okay, which is an extreme position, but frankly this
11:55:48 city, I don't think, Linda, Charlie, I don't think has
11:55:51 ever taken.
11:55:53 That alone is an extreme position, every other week.
11:55:58 Instead, for whatever reason -- and I didn't understand
11:56:01 the discussion last week, two weeks ago, and I still
11:56:04 don't understand it -- council just opted to go to the
11:56:07 even more extreme position of no lawn sprinkling,
11:56:13 period.
11:56:14 I don't understand it.
11:56:15 It's not based upon facts.
11:56:17 It not based upon any testimony of staff.
11:56:20 It's not based upon staff recommendation from two weeks
11:56:24 ago.
11:56:24 So, therefore, I think that we can very easily, with

11:56:31 one strike-through of this otherwise very good
11:56:35 ordinance, very, very good ordinance by legal and by
11:56:37 the department, amend this emergency ordinance to go to
11:56:42 every other week, with an option, okay, delegated to
11:56:47 the mayor, that if and when things get bad enough, we
11:56:52 go to no irrigation, period.
11:56:56 That's my motion.
11:56:57 It's a friendly amendment, to modify the motion on the
11:57:01 floor to amend the motion on the floor.
11:57:05 To direct staff to make those changes.
11:57:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:57:09 I guess the reservoir being half full is not fact.
11:57:13 I guess having 15 straight days of the lowest river
11:57:18 flows in 69 years is not fact.
11:57:22 I guess that it's factual that you walk outside and it
11:57:27 rains on you every day.
11:57:32 That's not fact.
11:57:32 That is not fact.
11:57:35 I guess that the city department coming up and telling
11:57:38 us the facts are not the facts.
11:57:41 I don't know if I have been in a coma here for the last
11:57:44 hour, but what I've heard today from our head of public

11:57:49 works and the head of the water department is that we
11:57:53 have an extreme situation equal to or possibly greater
11:57:58 than the drought of 2000, because in 2000, even today,
11:58:05 we had more flow in the river.
11:58:06 That is by the 69 year average that they just came up
11:58:11 and explained.
11:58:11 So I guess that's not fact.
11:58:14 I guess what I heard, I should go to Dr. Bartells to
11:58:23 have my ear checked because I am not hearing that.
11:58:26 So what I'm saying is vote for it.
11:58:31 I'm responsible.
11:58:32 I have always said I'm not worth as a hoot as a
11:58:35 politician because I am going to tell you like it is.
11:58:37 I am not going to try to snow coat this thing.
11:58:40 I am not going to try to add sugar to it.
11:58:43 I am not going to tell you I am on both sides of the
11:58:45 fence.
11:58:46 I am going to tell you the facts and I bear the heat.
11:58:48 But I got elected not to get reflected.
11:58:50 I got elected to serve and I'm going to do that to the
11:58:53 best of my ability.
11:58:53 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

11:58:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry to interrupt but just a
11:58:59 qualification.
11:59:00 Council member Dingfelder made a motion for an
11:59:02 amendment.
11:59:04 Was there a second?
11:59:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:59:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't know that you can second both
11:59:10 motions.
11:59:10 Second both?
11:59:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You are going to have to address the
11:59:13 amendment now.
11:59:14 Discussion on the amendment.
11:59:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to speak to my second
11:59:16 on the amendment.
11:59:17 My second is based on not a disputation of facts, a
11:59:23 disputation of approach.
11:59:25 If we support the amendment, it means that people can
11:59:28 water one more time, and then one thing will happen.
11:59:32 It will either rain or won't rain.
11:59:34 We'll check the little line.
11:59:37 We will listen to the administration and follow their
11:59:41 lead.

11:59:41 And based on what Mr. Daignault said, he brought an
11:59:44 approach to council last week or two weeks ago, and I
11:59:48 think that would be appropriate.
11:59:49 I mean, this isn't something that's theoretical.
11:59:53 We know when it rains or doesn't rain and we will be
11:59:55 able to track it.
11:59:56 So I second Mr. Dingfelder's motion.
12:00:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The first vote is on the vote on the
12:00:03 amendment.
12:00:05 Record your vote at this time, please, on the
12:00:06 amendment.
12:00:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Actually --
12:00:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Voice vote?
12:00:13 Okay.
12:00:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: What's before you now is a motion to
12:00:17 amend made by council member Dingfelder, seconded by
12:00:19 council member Saul-Sena, to direct the text of the
12:00:26 amendment go to two times a month, to give the mayor
12:00:31 the authority to address that, or to make it stricter
12:00:35 interpretation.
12:00:37 That's what's before you now.
12:00:39 Don't record it.

12:00:40 This is a voice vote.
12:00:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor of the amendment to the
12:00:42 motion signify by saying Aye.
12:00:49 Those in opposition to the motion, those opposed,
12:00:57 signify by saying Nay.
12:01:01 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: 3-3.
12:01:03 Right?
12:01:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, I support the amendment.
12:01:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No.
12:01:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
12:01:18 DeSoto.
12:01:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
12:01:21 >>MARY MULHERN:
12:01:24 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.
12:01:27 >>THE CLERK: We have a 3 to 3 vote.
12:01:30 Miranda, Scott, and Mulhern voting no.
12:01:33 And Miller being absent.
12:01:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We are back to the main --
12:01:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Point of order.
12:01:42 Mr. Shelby, please.
12:01:43 Does the vote fail or does 3 to 3 carry to --
12:01:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Next meeting.

12:01:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: To substantive issue?
12:01:51 I don't care to carry it to the next meeting.
12:01:53 That's trickery.
12:01:53 I think we can carry it to this afternoon if we expect
12:01:56 Mrs. Miller to come back.
12:01:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: She's gone out of town, she won't be
12:02:00 back.
12:02:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, this is a difficult
12:02:04 situation.
12:02:04 Let me explain to you my reasoning in this.
12:02:07 You can choose to interpret this -- this is a decision
12:02:11 of the chair, because let me just go through this with
12:02:13 you because this is important.
12:02:16 That we understand this.
12:02:21 With regard to parliamentary procedures.
12:02:25 The chair shall decide -- and I'm reading from rule
12:02:28 4-L --
12:02:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Start with our rule.
12:02:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: This is our rule.
12:02:34 I'm sorry, yes.
12:02:35 What you are in discussion about now is rule 4-C, which
12:02:41 reads as follows: When a matter which is the subject

12:02:43 of an agenda item, when a matter which is the subject
12:02:46 of an agenda item is considered by the council and four
12:02:50 votes are not obtained either in support or opposition
12:02:52 to the matter, the matter shall, automatically, be
12:02:55 brought before the council at the next regular meeting
12:02:58 as unfinished business.
12:03:01 Again, then referring to rule 4-L, the chair shall
12:03:05 decide all questions of procedure and order, and the
12:03:09 decision shall stand unless reversed by majority vote
12:03:12 of the entire council, which would require four votes.
12:03:16 What you have before you is a motion to amend an item
12:03:20 that is on the agenda.
12:03:22 So my question, Mr. Chairman, is, your options are to
12:03:27 either continue this to the next regular meeting when
12:03:30 there is a full council present, which would be after
12:03:36 the effective date of the motion that was passed two
12:03:40 weeks ago.
12:03:41 There is a motion -- there is an ordinance that is in
12:03:46 existence that has been passed and signed by the mayor
12:03:48 that takes effect tomorrow.
12:03:51 What you have before you that is on the agenda is a
12:03:53 motion to amend that and to cure some defect in that.

12:03:58 Mr. Dingfelder's motion is to amend something that is
12:04:01 on the agenda.
12:04:02 So the question that I have for the chairman is, if the
12:04:05 ruling is that the motion before you is not an item
12:04:12 that is on the agenda but a motion to amend the item in
12:04:15 the agenda, if you understand that distinction, then
12:04:18 the motion would fail because then it would not be the
12:04:22 subject of an item on the agenda.
12:04:24 If you ruled that it could be then the subject of an
12:04:30 item on the agenda, then per council's rules, council
12:04:34 by unanimous vote waives their own rules it would have
12:04:38 to be taken up at the next regular meeting.
12:04:40 So it is ultimately the decision of the chair as to
12:04:43 whether or not this complies with rule 4.
12:04:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ms. Mulhern.
12:04:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I have a couple questions.
12:04:49 I'm not sure you have to go there.
12:04:53 This amendment is in limbo, right?
12:04:56 So it could go to the next meeting and we could just
12:04:59 vote on the agenda item now.
12:05:02 And then at the next meeting the vote on the amendment
12:05:06 to the agenda item, right?

12:05:08 Why can't we vote on the ordinance?
12:05:11 Can we not do that?
12:05:22 >>> If your position is, is it still be addressed later
12:05:25 on but still take up the main motion.
12:05:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
12:05:28 I'm asking if we can do that.
12:05:30 Because it's an amendment.
12:05:32 If it passed at the next meeting then you just amend
12:05:35 the ordinance.
12:05:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, if I may, and this is
12:05:40 just my common sense that we are thinking.
12:05:43 The ordinance is already in place.
12:05:44 This ordinance would make it better for those who would
12:05:46 have a well that they can use that are not billed by
12:05:52 the City of Tampa.
12:05:53 You have a personal well, you can use it because you
12:05:55 don't get a water bill, you are not attached to the
12:05:57 system.
12:05:57 And for other things that SWFWMD needed.
12:06:01 So what we are saying is, we want to be able to help
12:06:04 you, but we are not going to help you by passing this
12:06:06 ordinance.

12:06:07 It makes no difference to me.
12:06:09 I can also tell you that the emergency is an emergency.
12:06:14 But I am not going to debate it.
12:06:16 If the amendment tied 3-3, I would assume that the
12:06:20 motion that I have on the floor is also going to be
12:06:23 3-3.
12:06:25 And that's how I see it.
12:06:26 But I may be wrong.
12:06:27 But no matter what we do today, the other ordinance
12:06:30 kicks in, which is much more restrictive than what we
12:06:33 have on the floor today.
12:06:35 So we are not helping anyone.
12:06:38 That's all, Mr. Chairman.
12:06:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am going to direct my comments to
12:06:48 learned attorneys.
12:06:53 I'll hold off.
12:06:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I defense to the chair on that.
12:06:56 You are the city attorney, sir.
12:06:58 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I did not hear the question.
12:07:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mrs. Mulhern said they are question
12:07:03 hasn't been asked but I would like to reserve the
12:07:05 opportunity to have mine.

12:07:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, what's before you today is an
12:07:10 amendment, an ordinance, Mr. Miranda stated the case, a
12:07:13 glitch bill that improves the ordinance that
12:07:15 automatically will take effect tomorrow regardless of
12:07:17 what council does.
12:07:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
12:07:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: This being a legislative matter
12:07:22 council has the prerogative to bring back Mr.
12:07:25 Dingfelder's motion when there is a full council
12:07:27 present to further amend the ordinance at any other
12:07:29 date.
12:07:30 So the answer to your question is, yes, you can move on
12:07:34 the main ordinance, and then bring this amendment back
12:07:38 and have it take effect obviously at a later effective
12:07:41 date.
12:07:42 So the answer to that question is yes, unless Mr. Chip
12:07:44 Fletcher, the city attorney disagrees.
12:07:48 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I generally agree with that
12:07:50 analysis.
12:07:50 We do have a situation here where you are setting
12:07:53 legislative policy.
12:07:54 You could reconsider that or reevaluate that at a

12:07:58 future date, and seek to amend the ordinance, that
12:08:02 would be within the scope of your authority.
12:08:04 And if that's the pleasure of council to move forward
12:08:07 on the recommendation that is before you, and then
12:08:11 discuss it again at your next meeting, certainly that
12:08:14 would be appropriate.
12:08:15 I don't know that what you would take action on here
12:08:18 today would be something with an amendment left pending
12:08:22 or something, we would recommend a final action today
12:08:24 on the ordinance.
12:08:25 You can --
12:08:30 Well, my opinion on this, the question before us today
12:08:33 is to cure a defect in the previous ordinance.
12:08:36 That's what was brought before us.
12:08:38 Not to amend the decision we made a few weeks ago.
12:08:44 What was before us was a cure some of the Dee Dee
12:08:48 effects in the ordinance.
12:08:48 And that's my understanding, the structure on the
12:08:51 agenda.
12:08:52 So that's where I stand on that issue, okay?
12:08:55 So we can proceed.
12:08:56 Yes.

12:09:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Putting this issue aside I have a
12:09:02 procedural problem with interpretation of council in
12:09:05 terms of deferring to the chair's interpretation on
12:09:08 this.
12:09:08 But our rule says that if we are voting on a motion on
12:09:14 an issue that's on the agenda, okay, then you go into
12:09:18 that 3-3 tie breaker situation which we do week in and
12:09:22 week out.
12:09:23 What if I had said, now what?
12:09:26 On page 4, as Ms. Saul-Sena noted, the language wasn't
12:09:30 very good, we need to change "the" to "this."
12:09:34 Okay?
12:09:35 That would be an amendment to the ordinance.
12:09:37 Okay.
12:09:40 You wouldn't be deferring to the chairman on a 3-3
12:09:44 vote.
12:09:44 Okay.
12:09:45 I happen to make somewhat of a more substantive
12:09:48 amendment to the ordinance, but I would say that this
12:09:50 issue is on the agenda, and we should be abiding by our
12:09:54 3-3 rules for issues that are on the agenda. Anyway,.
12:09:59 >>> If that is the case --

12:10:01 >> We have a problem that Mrs. Miller is not here and
12:10:03 apparently she's gone out of town.
12:10:05 Okay.
12:10:06 I'm sure it was for good reasons.
12:10:07 So bottom line is, you know, we might have to carry
12:10:11 over my motion for two weeks.
12:10:14 So hopefully it will rain and it will all be moot by
12:10:17 then anyway.
12:10:18 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I may just for clarity at this
12:10:23 point, I think where we are procedurally is the
12:10:25 chairman's rule that this motion is an amendment, it
12:10:29 not an item that's on the agenda, as I indicated to
12:10:32 Marty, that is actually my reading of the rules of
12:10:34 procedure as well, that the agenda item is the item
12:10:37 which the tie-break carry-overrule applies, not an
12:10:42 amendment to that.
12:10:43 And at this point, would you be voting on based on the
12:10:48 chairman's ruling the ordinance as presented.
12:10:54 Certainly at a future meeting, this issue could be
12:10:57 raised again and the policy could be reevaluated as was
12:11:00 discussed earlier, but procedurally I think you are on
12:11:03 the ordinance as proposed.

12:11:04 >> Bad facts make bad law and that will come back and
12:11:11 bite us.
12:11:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I actually agree with councilman
12:11:15 Dingfelder, that this should come back.
12:11:20 He made a motion.
12:11:21 It didn't pass.
12:11:22 It's 3-3.
12:11:23 It comes back in two weeks.
12:11:25 My suggestion is that the amendment didn't pass.
12:11:31 There's also a motion, you read the motion, right?
12:11:35 So the ordinance motion is still on the floor.
12:11:43 That's what I'm saying.
12:11:44 I don't agree with you at all because I think we do
12:11:47 this all the time, and say that it has to be on the
12:11:49 agenda.
12:11:53 I think that's nothing that I've ever seen brought up
12:11:57 before.
12:11:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The best thing I can do -- I'm sorry,
12:12:02 Mr. Chairman, to interrupt.
12:12:03 I apologize.
12:12:04 This regards -- and I respect Mr. Fletcher's opinion,
12:12:09 and I certainly respect my opinion.

12:12:11 But frankly these are council's rules.
12:12:15 And I don't think either Mr. Fletcher nor I can impose
12:12:20 the decision upon this council.
12:12:24 You are a body of six today because one is missing.
12:12:29 It says the chair shall decide all questions of
12:12:31 procedure and order, and the decision shall stand
12:12:34 unless reversed by a majority vote of the entire
12:12:38 council.
12:12:38 If there are four members of this council who right now
12:12:42 disagree with Mr. Scott's decision, then a motion and
12:12:45 second and vote on that to overrule that decision is
12:12:49 the remedy.
12:12:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
12:12:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Barring that, the decision stands per
12:12:54 council's own rules.
12:12:59 >>MARY MULHERN: What was your decision?
12:13:00 >> Well, what I stated was that what's on the agenda is
12:13:05 to cure a defect in the ordinance, not the amendment
12:13:08 that was made by council member Dingfelder.
12:13:12 That is what's on the agenda, to cure the defect in the
12:13:16 ordinance.
12:13:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Scott's ruling that rule 4-C does

12:13:21 not apply.
12:13:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion on the ruling.
12:13:25 Okay.
12:13:26 It's really actually a friendly motion believe it or
12:13:28 not.
12:13:31 I move that we waive the rules on this one particular
12:13:33 item.
12:13:36 I don't like the direction where we are changing.
12:13:40 I move that we modify the rules on this one particular
12:13:43 vote to carry over this 3-3 tie to next week.
12:13:48 Can we do it next week?
12:13:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To a special --
12:13:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: To set a special meeting, we are
12:13:56 meeting next Thursday on something, aren't we?
12:13:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: CRA.
12:13:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Community Redevelopment Agency.
12:14:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Set a special meeting to vote on
12:14:05 this one particular item.
12:14:06 In the meantime I'll also include in my motion, because
12:14:09 it is a friendly motion, that procedurally we set aside
12:14:15 my amendment, okay, allowing Mr. Miranda's motion on
12:14:20 this ordinance to proceed today.

12:14:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'll second that, and I would like
12:14:27 to support the motion that's before us today and then
12:14:29 vote on the amendment next week.
12:14:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's what I was trying to do.
12:14:35 Allow Charlie to carry on with his motion, and make a
12:14:39 new motion to pass this ordinance for today, but at the
12:14:43 same time allow that 3-3 vote to be broken next
12:14:49 Thursday by Ms. Miller.
12:14:52 I think all seven council members deserve a vote on
12:14:55 something this important.
12:14:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I agree, I concur.
12:14:59 I think this body of elected officials or any body of
12:15:03 elected officials, is certainly entitled to vote this
12:15:06 week and change their mind the following week and the
12:15:08 week after that and the week after that.
12:15:11 You have that right under the law.
12:15:14 I am not going to change my position too much unless
12:15:17 you have a mini-hurricane that comes up.
12:15:21 We are not talking about one or two inches of rain
12:15:23 here.
12:15:23 We are talking about three years of drought.
12:15:26 So I'm not trying to play hardball, I'm trying to tell

12:15:30 you the facts.
12:15:31 So there's where we are at.
12:15:32 I'm not opposed to that motion to make sure that we
12:15:35 have a full council.
12:15:39 It not going to be some other member out and one way or
12:15:45 another has a advantage.
12:15:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Personally I'm totally embarrassed by
12:15:48 all of this.
12:15:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So am I.
12:15:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I am just really embarrassed by the
12:15:52 action that we are taking here today.
12:15:54 Because, really, Marty and Chip, this is just going too
12:15:59 far.
12:16:00 We are trying to take care of the public business in
12:16:03 the best interest of this community.
12:16:04 And we look like idiots.
12:16:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, we don't.
12:16:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Oh, yeah, we look like we don't know
12:16:09 what we are doing.
12:16:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Our own rules.
12:16:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: He just stated the rules are the
12:16:17 chairman makes the decision.

12:16:18 I made the decision.
12:16:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And we can override that.
12:16:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's fine.
12:16:22 But here at the same time, here at the same time, we
12:16:24 could have passed the original motion.
12:16:27 Councilman Dingfelder could have brought this back
12:16:29 automatically next week anyway, place it on the agenda
12:16:32 at any time, but never vote.
12:16:34 You don't have to go through all of this.
12:16:36 And that's my point.
12:16:37 We wasted 50 minutes on a rule and trying to decide
12:16:42 whether 3-3 -- whether -- you could have brought it
12:16:46 back any time at another meeting, period.
12:16:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't know what we are voting on.
12:16:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My motion is to override
12:17:00 respectfully the chairman's decision and bring the 3-3
12:17:02 back next week to break the tie.
12:17:04 In the meantime, though, allowing Mr. Miranda to be
12:17:07 able to move procedurally on his ordinance as he so
12:17:12 wishes.
12:17:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Can I simplify this, Mr. Dingfelder?
12:17:17 I apologize, council.

12:17:18 Please understand that I am trying to do my best to
12:17:20 serve the interest of council here and the body as a
12:17:23 whole.
12:17:24 And to not play necessarily any side.
12:17:29 The first motion should be, you have several motions
12:17:32 there.
12:17:33 The first motion to this council whether to override
12:17:36 the decision of the chair.
12:17:38 That was the first part of your motion.
12:17:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can we just vote on that?
12:17:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I want to know where you are headed
12:17:45 on the second part.
12:17:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Take it part by part.
12:17:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: As long as you are going to allow me
12:17:51 and Mr. Miranda to move forward that's fine.
12:17:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: There are two things.
12:17:54 You wanted to overrule the chair which requires a
12:17:56 majority vote and waive council's rules which requires
12:17:59 unanimous vote.
12:18:00 They are two separate standards.
12:18:01 So I think they should be taken separately.
12:18:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is terrible.

12:18:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I concur what you
12:18:10 said.
12:18:10 We don't look like idiots, we look like Ridiots.
12:18:16 A "Ridiot" is a an idiot to the second power.
12:18:23 Whether watering days or odor even numbers, how do you
12:18:27 think they are going to feel about this discussion?
12:18:29 I'm here and I still don't understand.
12:18:31 We try to divert the facts.
12:18:34 And I'm not going to support my own second there.
12:18:37 We are going to listen to what the chairman said
12:18:39 rightly or wrongly.
12:18:41 And if you want to bring the ordinance up again next
12:18:43 week you are certainly entitled to do that.
12:18:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Caetano.
12:18:49 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Is next Thursday a regularly
12:18:51 scheduled council meeting or is it a CRA meeting?
12:18:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, sir, it is not a regular scheduled
12:18:55 council meeting.
12:18:56 It would require a vote of council to create a
12:18:59 specially called.
12:19:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There's only two ways to skin a cat.
12:19:06 I'll withdraw my original amendment to Charlie's

12:19:08 motion, as long as council gives me the ability for
12:19:15 next Thursday.
12:19:21 That's fine and I'll be glad to do that.
12:19:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If the original motion goes forward,
12:19:26 the same issue can come before you.
12:19:29 Those are probably the two simplest ways to get to that
12:19:32 point.
12:19:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: On the prevailing side.
12:19:36 Anyway I'll withdraw my motion, allowing Charlie to
12:19:40 proceed with the ordinance today.
12:19:41 And then right after I have done this, Mr. Chairman, I
12:19:43 would like to set the question for next Thursday.
12:19:47 Mrs. Saul-Sena, you accept my withdrawal.
12:19:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
12:19:55 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to say this.
12:19:58 I'm already late for an appointment, too.
12:20:00 But if we had just allowed this to be carried over as
12:20:04 we do very often in these meetings to the next meeting,
12:20:08 then we would just have a vote.
12:20:10 Now, we are going to vote on this, and it may be
12:20:14 brought back for reconsideration which will open up all
12:20:18 of this again instead of just having a vote.

12:20:23 Or a new motion.
12:20:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I apologize but I need to address
12:20:27 something.
12:20:27 And Mr. Miranda made this point.
12:20:29 This is a very unusual circumstance.
12:20:32 Number one is because it applies to an emergency
12:20:35 ordinance.
12:20:35 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I understand all of.
12:20:38 That downtown have to go over that again.
12:20:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: But the point is if it were carried
12:20:41 over what you have is an administration who is bringing
12:20:43 you an amended motion to cure a defect, you would have
12:20:46 a defective motion by the discussion, take effect
12:20:53 tomorrow, until such time it was cured.
12:20:55 And that's just the way -- because that motion -- that
12:20:58 ordinance had already passed.
12:21:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm understanding that.
12:21:02 That's why I withdraw my motion and supporting
12:21:06 Charlie's motion.
12:21:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Clarifying the motion.
12:21:10 Go ahead.
12:21:13 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: The ordinance that was passed

12:21:14 previously is legally valid.
12:21:16 It not a defect in that regard.
12:21:20 It does make it more enforceable, correctly addresses a
12:21:23 number of issues.
12:21:24 So our recommendation is to move forward on the motion.
12:21:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Back to the main motion?
12:21:40 >> Back to the main motion.
12:21:43 Record your vote on the main motion.
12:22:11 >>THE CLERK: I need one more vote.
12:22:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Gwen is not here.
12:22:22 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder voting no,
12:22:24 and Miller being absent at vote.
12:22:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chair, if I could, I would like
12:22:30 to set the motion that I made earlier to revisit that,
12:22:37 as a new vote, I guess, at the first thing before the
12:22:40 CRA meeting next Thursday.
12:22:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
12:22:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
12:22:45 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
12:22:47 Opposes?
12:22:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Every other week that watering with
12:22:54 the option the mayor would have the delegate authority

12:22:56 to change that.
12:22:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, the only statement I
12:23:00 am going to make is the lady or gentleman who wrote
12:23:02 Robert's Rules of Order would have been here today he
12:23:03 or she would have committed suicide.
12:23:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just say to the public we didn't
12:23:13 complete our 9:30 items.
12:23:15 We'll pick those up at 1:30.
12:23:17 I apologize for that today.
12:23:18 We stand in recess until 1:30.
12:23:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Did we vote on my motion?
12:23:24 >> Yes, we voted on it, yes.
12:23:26 The motion carried.
12:23:28 (City Council meeting in recess at 12:24 p.m.)
12:24:30

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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, April 2, 2009
1:30 p.m. session

DISCLAIMER:
The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
transcript.
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.




13:35:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
14:03:54 order.
14:03:55 Roll call.
14:03:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
14:04:01 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
14:04:02 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
14:04:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.

14:04:07 Okay, council, we left off on staff reports.
14:04:10 But before we do that, what I would like to do first
14:04:12 is find out those who have any item on the agenda
14:04:16 today, that you want a continuance, I am going to give
14:04:19 you the first option to come up and express what your
14:04:21 continuance is at this point, address the continuance
14:04:24 first, so we don't have people waiting all afternoon
14:04:27 that wants to continue.
14:04:28 If you want a continuance, will you come forward at
14:04:32 this time?
14:04:32 If you need a continuance, this is your time to come
14:04:35 up.
14:04:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, just so that people
14:04:38 understand, and you have said this in the morning,
14:04:41 council member Miller will not be present this
14:04:43 afternoon.
14:04:44 And council member Saul-Sena will be arriving late.
14:04:46 She has a conflicting meeting that she's attending.
14:04:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, that's correct.
14:04:55 >>> I need one minute.
14:04:57 Ten seconds?
14:04:58 >> Listen, folks, if you want a continuance you need

14:05:01 to come on.
14:05:02 Listen, we are behind schedule.
14:05:03 >>> Joseph Diaz, I'm before you with respect to a wet
14:05:06 zoning matter, SU-1 today.
14:05:09 I don't know that I want to hear with just four
14:05:12 members.
14:05:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you want a continuance?
14:05:16 >>> I certainly do.
14:05:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What number is that?
14:05:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What number on the agenda?
14:05:23 >>> Number 82.
14:05:30 82.
14:05:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then what we need to do -- excuse me,
14:05:36 council is in session.
14:05:38 First thing we need to do, we need to swear everybody
14:05:41 in.
14:05:41 So if you are going to be addressing council, stand
14:05:44 and be sworn at this time.
14:05:45 If you are going to be addressing -- anybody that's
14:05:48 going to address council, please stand and be sworn.
14:05:51 (Oath administered by Clerk)
14:05:52 We need to open our public hearing items.

14:06:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Keeping the record clear if we can do
14:06:04 them one at a time this afternoon, second readings, is
14:06:07 that what you are doing now?
14:06:08 >> No.
14:06:09 Those who want to continue.
14:06:10 His was 82.
14:06:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 82 is a continued public hearing.
14:06:14 It doesn't need to be open.
14:06:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's already open.
14:06:17 So Mr. Diaz is requesting a continuance, right?
14:06:21 On 82?
14:06:22 >>> That's correct, Mr. Chairman.
14:06:23 >> What date are you requesting to?
14:06:25 >>> The first available date.
14:06:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wishes to
14:06:29 address council on this continuance on item 82?
14:06:31 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item
14:06:34 82?
14:06:36 Okay.
14:06:36 Seeing none.
14:06:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The next available date for alcoholic
14:06:40 beverage hearings would be the afternoon at 1:30 of

14:06:43 May 21st, 2009.
14:06:45 Is that acceptable?
14:06:47 Excuse me, I'm sorry.
14:06:51 I might be wrong.
14:06:52 Let me see.
14:06:54 Or actually you have, council with, regard to April,
14:06:58 the sessions are now scheduled for the evening.
14:07:01 Alcoholic beverages scheduled for the evening of April
14:07:04 30th, if council wishes to contemplate adding
14:07:07 another one.
14:07:07 Right now you have a 5:30 amendment Chapter 11, four
14:07:12 rezonings, two continuances and presently three
14:07:15 alcoholic beverages.
14:07:15 >>GWEN MILLER: So you want April 30th is the next
14:07:19 available date.
14:07:20 >>> If that's the first available.
14:07:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:07:23 >>> It is what it is.
14:07:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 6 p.m.?
14:07:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved, Mr. Chairman.
14:07:32 (Motion carried).
14:07:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?

14:07:33 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:07:36 Item number 83, I just spoke with the petitioner to go
14:07:40 over the site plan issues.
14:07:41 Apparently, according to the petitioner, they just
14:07:44 pulled the -- their issue is the permit to build the
14:07:48 permanent structure and the he does not actually need
14:07:52 a vendor permit from us.
14:07:54 It was a dual process that he was following.
14:07:56 The permits have been issued.
14:07:57 So I believe he's actually wanting to withdraw the
14:08:00 request.
14:08:00 I'll let him address it.
14:08:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's hear from the petitioner.
14:08:09 >>> I think he would withdraw it.
14:08:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's open the public hearing.
14:08:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved to open 83.
14:08:16 >> All in favor?
14:08:18 (Motion carried).
14:08:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry.
14:08:22 Maybe I'm butting in.
14:08:23 But it concerns me that the issue is the basis for
14:08:28 this appeal is not yet fully resolved.

14:08:30 Is that correct?
14:08:31 Because I don't want with this gentleman to be in a
14:08:34 position of withdrawing an appeal, something happening
14:08:36 down the line procedurally and then losing his right
14:08:39 to have his council hearing.
14:08:40 It would be more prudent to continue it to a later
14:08:43 date to address the issues barring no objections and
14:08:47 then have him come back and withdraw it after
14:08:50 everything is resolved.
14:08:52 >>> Counsel gives sage advice and we accept that.
14:08:57 I think about 90 days down the road and come back at
14:09:01 that time hopefully have it done and withdraw it at
14:09:03 that time.
14:09:03 Is that what you are saying?
14:09:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm just saying if you withdraw it
14:09:07 you might prejudice yourself down the line.
14:09:09 >>> And I say that's sage advice and we are prepared
14:09:11 to accept that.
14:09:13 My name is Warren Dawson, on behalf of the appellant
14:09:19 Mr. Hakim Aquil who is standing right here.
14:09:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:09:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So your request, sir, is to continue

14:09:25 this for --
14:09:28 >>> 90 days.
14:09:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Which would bring it to March, April,
14:09:32 may, June.
14:09:33 Would you then say that you would want it on the
14:09:36 4th of June?
14:09:37 Would that give you enough time?
14:09:38 Would you like the 25th of June?
14:09:42 >>> 27th of June would be fine.
14:09:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 1:30 in the afternoon?
14:09:46 >>> That would be fine.
14:09:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is that a request?
14:09:49 Is there a motion?
14:09:49 >> Well, anyone from the public that wishes to address
14:09:52 council on this continuance.
14:09:53 Anyone from the public wishes to address council?
14:09:57 >>> Joe Robinson, Palmetto Street here, NAACP economic
14:10:03 development chair, to support the decision that is
14:10:05 going to be made on the continuance.
14:10:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public?
14:10:11 Motion to June 25th.
14:10:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: At 1:30 in the afternoon?

14:10:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
14:10:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion by Councilwoman Mulhern, second
14:10:21 by councilman Caetano. All in favor signify by saying
14:10:24 Aye.
14:10:24 Opposes?
14:10:25 Okay.
14:10:30 Anyone else on a continuance? If not --
14:10:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I think Mr. DeFurio is back.
14:10:37 >>> Jim DeFurio, I represent the Bayshore royal.
14:10:40 We are the last item on the agenda.
14:10:43 This has to do with the Citivest project on Bayshore
14:10:46 Boulevard.
14:10:48 It is the desire of my client to have a date where it
14:10:51 is more likely to have a full complement of the City
14:10:54 Council present given the complexity of the issues and
14:10:59 the seriousness of the matter.
14:11:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:11:03 So you are asking for a continuance.
14:11:05 >>> I am, sir.
14:11:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:11:09 We need to open number 84.
14:11:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open item 84, Mr. Chairman.

14:11:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
14:11:17 All in favor say Aye.
14:11:19 Opposes?
14:11:19 Okay.
14:11:19 What's the next date?
14:11:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The next date that council has is
14:11:23 April 16th.
14:11:24 You presently have a closure public hearing at 1:30
14:11:27 and one appeal of the VRB.
14:11:29 That is all you presently have for the 16th, April
14:11:32 16th.
14:11:33 >>> April 16th is fine, sir.
14:11:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to appear?
14:11:39 >> We would like to consult with our clients on the
14:11:42 continuance if you will give me a minute or two.
14:11:44 We would like to consult with the client about the
14:11:46 request for continuance.
14:11:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you could, Mr. Grandoff, state who
14:11:51 you are and what position your party represents.
14:11:53 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Suite 3700 Bank of America Plaza, we
14:11:56 represent city national bank of Florida and Citivest
14:11:59 construction, permit holder in this project.

14:12:02 They are in fact the applicant to the issue.
14:12:06 The applicant at the ARC level.
14:12:10 We are not an appellant in this proceeding.
14:12:12 This request has just come to us.
14:12:14 I would like to discuss this with my client and see
14:12:16 first if he has an objection to it.
14:12:19 Two, whether the suggested date is clear for us.
14:12:22 We would like to be here also.
14:12:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:12:25 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Would you prefer to pass on to
14:12:29 another application?
14:12:29 >> Yes, I was going to do that.
14:12:31 Thank you.
14:12:34 Thank you, sir, for helping me out.
14:12:35 Thank you.
14:12:36 All right.
14:12:38 We'll go back now to the staff reports.
14:12:41 Hold that in abeyance until they confer.
14:12:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, if we could also
14:12:46 address the first item that's open is item 72, which
14:12:50 is the vote that's obviously going to have to be
14:12:54 continued because of the lack of full council.

14:12:56 If you wish to set that for the 16th under staff.
14:13:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Doesn't it say here that city staff
14:13:04 be requested to appear before May 21st?
14:13:09 Before council May 21st?
14:13:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That was the motion.
14:13:14 It did not pass.
14:13:15 Did it not have sufficient votes to pass.
14:13:17 That was pending before council's decision, whether
14:13:19 you want them to or not.
14:13:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's fine with me.
14:13:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So if there is a motion then to
14:13:29 continue that.
14:13:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Number 72.
14:13:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to April 16th at 10:30 in
14:13:37 the morning.
14:13:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you, sir.
14:13:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
14:13:41 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:13:43 Opposes?
14:13:44 Okay.
14:13:48 That was 73.
14:13:51 74?

14:13:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 74 is a motion.
14:13:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We'll try to pass this resolution.
14:13:59 It's a resolution for solicitation in the
14:14:02 rights-of-way, I so move the resolution.
14:14:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have 75 that follows that.
14:14:11 I don't know whether you want to take up 75 before we
14:14:14 take up 74.
14:14:17 >>REBECCA KERT: You can take up 75 and 74 will be a
14:14:20 discussion of what you want to do in the future.
14:14:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 74.
14:14:23 A motion on 74.
14:14:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Move the resolution.
14:14:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You move the resolution.
14:14:28 Second?
14:14:28 >> Second.
14:14:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor say Aye.
14:14:31 Opposes?
14:14:34 Okay.
14:14:35 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
14:14:37 You may recall, City Council, the city attorney's
14:14:39 office has advised you previously that you need to
14:14:42 make some amendments or change the current permitting

14:14:45 process that you have for solicitation.
14:14:48 We have had a couple of discussions on this where
14:14:50 different options have been discussed.
14:14:52 And the last direction that our office received from
14:14:55 council was to follow along with some of the proposed
14:14:58 amendments to Hillsborough County's regulation.
14:15:00 Hillsborough County at the time we had that discussion
14:15:03 had some pending amendments.
14:15:06 That was about six months ago.
14:15:08 Those have at this present time been removed from the
14:15:11 agenda so they don't have anything presently.
14:15:13 As you all know things can come up at any time, but
14:15:15 they may never come up again.
14:15:17 What I have sent to you earlier in the week is the
14:15:20 copy of the county regulation which prohibit
14:15:23 solicitation on county roads only.
14:15:25 But if you were to rescind your current regulation
14:15:28 this is what would be in effect.
14:15:29 It would apply within the city, but only to county
14:15:31 roads.
14:15:32 You still have the other options that we discussed
14:15:35 previously including enacting a complete ban, although

14:15:40 that does have some additional considerations, as well
14:15:42 as allowing for solicitation or allowing solicitation
14:15:45 with specific restrictions such as only during certain
14:15:48 hours, or only on certain roads, only people over the
14:15:52 age of 18.
14:15:53 All the options discussed previously are still
14:15:56 available.
14:15:57 >> What I suggest is we may want to continue this item
14:16:00 since we only have four members here.
14:16:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not opposed to that.
14:16:04 But in the interim between now and the continuing
14:16:07 date, some years back there was an ordinance in the
14:16:09 city that you could do these things with permission
14:16:12 and you had to have certain insurance in case somebody
14:16:15 got hurt or something.
14:16:17 Is that Constitution or not?
14:16:19 >>REBECCA KERT: Currently what you have is what you
14:16:21 describe except there's a permitting process, and a
14:16:24 permitting process is not per se unconstitutional.
14:16:27 The difficulties that we have is a state statute has
14:16:31 declared that if a local government has a permitting
14:16:33 process we have to exempt not for profits.

14:16:36 That statute has been declared unconstitutional.
14:16:39 So we are put in a position as a city if we have a
14:16:41 permitting process of either violating state law, or
14:16:44 violating the Constitution.
14:16:46 Obviously the Constitution based on the clause is
14:16:50 supreme, however, the best position is that we not
14:16:53 have a permitting, that way we are not in a position
14:16:55 of being challenged under noncompliance with the state
14:16:58 statute.
14:16:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand.
14:17:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, if I could add that, had
14:17:05 you can remove the permitting requirement but still
14:17:07 have the requirements for safety.
14:17:09 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes, that's correct.
14:17:10 >>MARY MULHERN: I was going to ask legal if -- it
14:17:16 sounds like we have to adopt -- we need to adopt the
14:17:20 county's resolution for the county roads and the city,
14:17:23 is that right?
14:17:24 >>REBECCA KERT: What you would need to do is rescind
14:17:27 your current regulation and the way the county
14:17:29 regulation is set up and under the county charter if
14:17:31 we have nothing in conflict, their ordinance will

14:17:34 apply.
14:17:36 We would just have to rescind or delete the current
14:17:40 ordinance that you have in place.
14:17:42 And then automatically the county's regulations would
14:17:44 apply.
14:17:45 If we want to do something differently, we can.
14:17:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Do you recommend we do that now or
14:17:49 that we wait, since we have other -- I mean, we could
14:17:52 do that and still discuss the other things, if you
14:17:54 think it's our -- we should do this, to help out our
14:18:00 compliance.
14:18:00 >>REBECCA KERT: I think at this point it would be fine
14:18:02 to continue it.
14:18:04 Give firm direction about where you want to go.
14:18:09 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: So city streets would not be
14:18:11 covered, just the county roads.
14:18:13 >>REBECCA KERT: Under the county ordinance, that's
14:18:15 correct.
14:18:19 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: This Constitutionality, could it
14:18:24 be cured?
14:18:25 >>REBECCA KERT: It could be cured.
14:18:27 I will tell you the decision, it was a federal court

14:18:29 decision of the middle district and it was applied in
14:18:32 2003.
14:18:32 Since then the state amended the legislation.
14:18:34 But not amended the part that was found
14:18:37 unconstitutional.
14:18:38 So for the past several years they made no indication
14:18:42 that the legislature wishes to address the court's
14:18:46 decision.
14:18:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone?
14:18:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll move this to continue to our next
14:19:02 public meeting, City Council meeting on staff reports,
14:19:05 which would be April 16th at 10:30.
14:19:12 >> Second?
14:19:13 >> Second.
14:19:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
14:19:16 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:19:18 Opposes?
14:19:19 Okay.
14:19:22 Is Citivest ready?
14:19:26 Not ready yet?
14:19:27 Citivest?
14:19:28 Mr. Grandoff?

14:19:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I think they are still consulting.
14:19:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, he was to come in and represent
14:19:37 his client.
14:19:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Take up number 77, if you wish.
14:19:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 77.
14:19:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like to have this
14:19:44 continued.
14:19:44 The organization maker is not here.
14:19:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The next board meeting.
14:19:47 The 16th.
14:19:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What's on the staff report?
14:19:53 Moved and seconded.
14:19:54 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:19:57 Opposes?
14:19:58 Okay.
14:20:03 That concludes all of the issues under the staff
14:20:05 report, I believe.
14:20:09 We go back to our 9:30 items.
14:20:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you wish to open those at the same
14:20:20 time you may do so.
14:20:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:20:22 Motion?

14:20:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
14:20:25 >> Second.
14:20:28 (Motion carried).
14:20:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With regard to that, if I can make
14:20:30 some comments, sir.
14:20:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
14:20:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I ask that all written material which
14:20:35 has been available for public inspection in City
14:20:38 Council's office be received and filed into the record
14:20:40 at this time, please.
14:20:41 By motion.
14:20:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Moved.
14:20:48 >> Second.
14:20:48 (Motion carried).
14:20:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Secondly a reminder if there are any
14:20:52 ex parte communications, if you had any conversations
14:20:54 with anybody in relation to the subject matter of this
14:20:57 afternoon's hearings, that you disclose with whom that
14:21:01 discussion took place, and the substance of that
14:21:03 verbal communication.
14:21:05 Finally, is there anybody here who intends to speak
14:21:07 who has not been sworn?

14:21:11 I don't see anybody responding, Mr. Chairman.
14:21:13 Thank you.
14:21:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 67.
14:21:21 Anyone wishing to address council on item 67?
14:21:26 Anyone wishing to address council on item 67?
14:21:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
14:21:31 >> Second.
14:21:31 (Motion carried).
14:21:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Miranda?
14:21:34 >> Move an ordinance for second reading and adoption,
14:21:38 an ordinance authorizing the construction and erection
14:21:40 of a proposed encroachment awning by RRW architect,
14:21:44 AIA, Inc., over a portion of public right-of-way known
14:21:48 as east Whiting Street between South Tampa street and
14:21:50 Whiting Street and more particularly described herein
14:21:53 subject to certain terms, covenants, conditions and
14:21:55 agreements as more particularly described herein,
14:21:57 providing an effective date.
14:22:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's moved and seconded.
14:22:02 Record your vote, please.
14:22:04 THE CLERK: I need a second.
14:22:05 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.

14:22:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
14:22:13 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder, Miller
14:22:15 and Saul-Sena being absent at vote.
14:22:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 68.
14:22:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think Mr. Grandoff is here.
14:22:26 I'm not telling you what to do, Mr. Chairman.
14:22:29 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: On the last item on the agenda, I
14:22:32 don't remember the number, we are --
14:22:34 84.
14:22:37 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: We are suggesting April 23 for the
14:22:40 continued hearing.
14:22:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: April 23 is a workshop day.
14:22:50 You need a regular council meeting.
14:22:57 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: The 16th doesn't work for us.
14:23:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: May 7th.
14:23:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If both parties agree to the
14:23:09 23rd, I think we can accommodate that by waiving
14:23:12 the rules, what we did today for, I believe -- we are
14:23:18 certainly entitled to dough that, aren't we?
14:23:22 >> But the problem we have is we only have a morning
14:23:24 meeting.
14:23:24 We don't have an afternoon meeting had.

14:23:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have a special discussion meeting
14:23:32 scheduled for 1:30.
14:23:33 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: What are your full meetings in May?
14:23:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: May 7th and May 21st.
14:23:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Sir, I can't hear you, if you can
14:23:52 come back on the record.
14:23:52 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Out of town on the 7th.
14:23:58 How about the 21st?
14:24:04 He's behind you.
14:24:05 He's checking.
14:24:06 Thank you for your courtesy, Mr. Chairman.
14:24:10 May 21 works.
14:24:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, I want to hear from Mr.
14:24:16 DeFurio.
14:24:17 >>> May 21st.
14:24:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: May 21st at 1:30.
14:24:24 >>MARY MULHERN: So moved.
14:24:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
14:24:28 (Motion carried).
14:24:29 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Thank you for your courtesy.
14:24:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:24:34 Item 68.

14:24:35 Item 68.
14:24:44 Yes.
14:24:44 >>SAMANTHA FENGER: Land Development Coordination.
14:24:47 Item 68, item 69 and item 70 require certified plan by
14:24:52 the zoning administrator.
14:24:54 These plans have been certified and provided to the
14:24:56 city clerk.
14:24:57 I have the plans here with me, if you have any
14:24:59 questions.
14:24:59 Thank you.
14:25:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is the petitioner here?
14:25:11 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Suite 3700 Bank of America Plaza.
14:25:17 And I represent JPBW limited on 68.
14:25:24 We provided the site plan and we request your approval
14:25:28 this afternoon.
14:25:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, sir.
14:25:36 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Grandoff, did you seek a
14:25:41 continue an on this?
14:25:42 >>> On what grounds, Mr. Caetano?
14:25:45 >> Not a full board and not going to make it the way
14:25:48 it looks.
14:25:48 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: On second reading?

14:25:51 I didn't even start counting yet.
14:25:55 Well, let me talk to my client because we have some
14:25:57 lease obligations we have to work through.
14:25:59 I'll be right back.
14:26:00 Just a moment.
14:26:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: One, two, three, four.
14:26:12 You only have three.
14:26:33 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Mr. Scott, we have some business
14:26:34 issues under our lease and we need to be proceeding as
14:26:37 soon as possible.
14:26:38 I recognize the votes are not available this
14:26:39 afternoon.
14:26:40 May we have time on your agenda next Thursday for the
14:26:43 second reading of this item as a courtesy, please?
14:26:46 >> (off microphone).
14:27:22 >> (off microphone).
14:27:28 >> I thought the motion was that we would have a
14:27:31 special called meeting before the CRA meeting next
14:27:33 Thursday.
14:27:33 That was the motion that was made.
14:27:37 That was the motion.
14:27:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So council is in effect in session

14:27:41 for that one purpose on the 9th if it wishes to
14:27:44 add another item.
14:27:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Alternatively, you could not continue
14:27:57 this, and we could have a vote, and then we would
14:28:00 probably have to have a revote on the 16th.
14:28:05 >>> My calendar shows you are not in session on the
14:28:13 16th.
14:28:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: There is not an evening meeting on
14:28:16 the 16th.
14:28:17 There is a regular City Council meeting on the morning
14:28:19 and there could be something set at 1:30 in the
14:28:21 afternoon, because there already is -- I should point
14:28:25 out, by the way, the retreat is on the agenda for 1:30
14:28:28 in the afternoon.
14:28:30 On the 16th.
14:28:32 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Mr. Chairman, we know what we have to
14:28:34 do.
14:28:35 We can come back on the 16th.
14:28:36 I certainly understand what Ms. Mulhern is --
14:28:40 So you want to take the vote now?
14:28:42 >>> Well, I think the vote will fail.
14:28:44 We can continue it.

14:28:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The problem with the rule is you
14:28:50 continue over a public hearing to allow everybody to
14:28:51 be present and finish the public hearing with the
14:28:53 council members present.
14:28:56 That it would be cleanest way.
14:28:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Move to continue this public hearing
14:28:59 to the 16th of April.
14:29:02 >> Second.
14:29:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 1:30 in the afternoon.
14:29:08 >>MARY MULHERN: I thought we had a meeting in the
14:29:09 afternoon.
14:29:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Before the retreat you would have one
14:29:16 item and then this.
14:29:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
14:29:19 >>MARY MULHERN: The retreat, you are talking about an
14:29:22 agenda item.
14:29:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: After all the agenda items you got?
14:29:30 >> I thought the strategic planning meeting.
14:29:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So you are fine with that?
14:29:35 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Yes.
14:29:36 >> Motion on that.
14:29:38 Motion made.

14:29:40 1:30.
14:29:40 The clerk will place that as one item already ahead of
14:29:43 that, right?
14:29:44 Place it as the second item then, after "retreat."
14:29:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Asking this to be the next one before
14:29:56 the appeal hearing.
14:29:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Been moved and seconded.
14:29:58 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:30:00 Opposes?
14:30:01 Okay.
14:30:03 That's item 68.
14:30:05 Item 67.
14:30:08 We did 67, right.
14:30:09 I'm sorry.
14:30:11 69.
14:30:12 Item 69.
14:30:14 Anyone here wishing to address council on item 69?
14:30:16 Anyone here wishing to address council?
14:30:18 Motion to close.
14:30:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
14:30:21 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
14:30:30 (Motion carried).

14:30:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern, do you want to
14:30:34 read that one, 69?
14:30:47 >>MARY MULHERN: The petitioner didn't have something
14:30:49 else?
14:30:49 Okay.
14:30:50 I move an ordinance being presented for second reading
14:30:53 and adoption, an ordinance approving a special use
14:30:56 permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, small venue
14:30:59 and making lawful the sale of beverages containing
14:31:01 alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not more than
14:31:04 14% by weight and wines regardless of alcoholic
14:31:07 content, beer and wine, 2(APS), in sealed containers
14:31:10 for consumption off premises only at or from that
14:31:13 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 1912
14:31:17 west Columbus drive, Tampa, Florida, as more
14:31:19 particularly described in section 2 hereof, approving
14:31:22 waivers as set forth herein, waiving certain
14:31:25 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
14:31:27 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
14:31:30 conflict, providing an effective date.
14:31:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
14:31:35 Record your vote, please.

14:31:41 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder, Miller
14:31:44 and Saul-Sena being absent at vote.
14:31:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 70.
14:31:54 Item 70.
14:31:55 Anyone wishing to address council on item 70?
14:31:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
14:32:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
14:32:01 (Motion carried).
14:32:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
14:32:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance being presented for
14:32:08 second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning
14:32:10 property in the general vicinity of 4918 north Habana
14:32:13 Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
14:32:15 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
14:32:17 district classifications RO-1 residential office, to
14:32:21 PD, planned development, 60-bed behavioral health
14:32:25 hospital, providing an effective date.
14:32:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
14:32:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to speak to.
14:32:34 That it a shame, but again we have to have a cost on a
14:32:37 ditch and full of trees that you can't build a
14:32:41 sidewalk on and somebody has to pay 25 or 30,000 to

14:32:45 the sidewalk fund.
14:32:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
14:32:57 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder, Miller
14:32:59 and Saul-Sena being absent at vote.
14:33:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I believe that completes our morning
14:33:03 agenda.
14:33:05 We will move now to our 1:30 items.
14:33:12 Motion to open our 1:30 items.
14:33:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
14:33:15 >> Second.
14:33:15 (Motion carried).
14:33:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 78.
14:33:36 >>SAMANTHA FENGER: Land Development Coordination.
14:33:38 I have been sworn.
14:33:39 Item number 78, petition number Z-09-04.
14:33:44 If you recall was in front of you March 19th for
14:33:47 second reading.
14:33:47 However, the plans were unable to be certified because
14:33:50 there was a minor modification regarding a second
14:33:53 driveway that was added to the plan.
14:33:55 The plan has been sent back out to the department for
14:33:58 review specifically transportation and historic

14:34:01 preservation.
14:34:02 I did not receive any objections to this modification.
14:34:05 And I believe the petitioner Mark Bentley is here to
14:34:08 answer any questions that you may have.
14:34:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can, to clarify what you have
14:34:13 before you is in fact here for first reading.
14:34:15 Is that correct?
14:34:17 >>SAMANTHA FENGER: Correct.
14:34:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question.
14:34:21 You gave me three sets of plans.
14:34:23 Is that right?
14:34:24 >>> Correct.
14:34:25 >> So they are all three for this project?
14:34:27 >>> Yes.
14:34:30 It's to distribute.
14:34:31 It's the plans with the elevation.
14:34:32 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
14:34:35 I wanted to make sure.
14:34:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
14:34:43 council on this item?
14:34:44 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item
14:34:46 78?

14:34:52 Motion to close?
14:34:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
14:34:57 >> Second.
14:34:57 (Motion carried).
14:34:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
14:35:01 >>> An ordinance rezoning property in the general
14:35:05 vicinity of 1315 east 5th Avenue city of Tampa,
14:35:08 Florida and more particularly described in section 1
14:35:10 from zoning district classifications YC-9 Ybor City
14:35:14 mixed use, multifamily residential, professional
14:35:17 office, retail, to YC-9, Ybor City, mixed use,
14:35:21 multifamily residential, professional office, retail
14:35:23 and hotel, providing an effective date.
14:35:28 >> Second.
14:35:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And this is for second reading?
14:35:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: First reading.
14:35:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This says wrong this.
14:35:38 >> They brought back a revised.
14:35:40 After this is passed, assuming it does, the clerk will
14:35:42 announce when it comes back for second reading.
14:35:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:35:46 Opposes?

14:35:47 Okay.
14:35:47 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena, Dingfelder
14:35:49 and Miller being absent at vote.
14:35:52 Second reading of the ordinance will be held April
14:35:55 16th at 9:30 a.m.
14:35:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 79 is a continued public hearing.
14:36:00 Item 79.
14:36:06 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.
14:36:08 This is a city initiated petition to vacate a portion
14:36:11 of Powhatan Avenue, and lies between Henry and
14:36:18 Comanche and Church and Lois, and I have a map on the
14:36:20 overhead.
14:36:21 The red is the CO'ed property and the yellow the
14:36:27 stormwater needs vacated to expand the pond there.
14:36:30 I have some pictures.
14:36:34 This is a picture of Powhatan Avenue looking west
14:36:39 towards the dead-end and the fence is actually the
14:36:42 portion of right-of-way that's going to be vacated, so
14:36:45 they have already fenced it in.
14:36:48 This is a same shot only closer.
14:36:51 You can see the road is unimproved.
14:36:54 This is Powhatan.

14:37:00 These are some shots of the surrounding property that
14:37:02 have been incorporated into the stormwater project.
14:37:07 That's looking north from Powhatan.
14:37:11 Another one to the north.
14:37:13 And city-owned property to the south.
14:37:18 There is a representative from stormwater if you have
14:37:20 questions concerning the project.
14:37:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to be clear.
14:37:26 The first one you showed us, photograph, the part that
14:37:32 we are vacating on the other side of the fence, or is
14:37:35 it the street portion?
14:37:37 >>> It's already fenced.
14:37:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Then I guess my question is for
14:37:41 stormwater, if they are here.
14:37:44 There's a lot of trees beyond that fence.
14:37:46 Are those going to be flooded?
14:37:50 Is the whole thing going to be a pond?
14:37:53 >>> Mike Miller with City of Tampa stormwater.
14:37:56 The plans, we are in the process right now of
14:37:58 designing the enlargement of that lake.
14:38:00 And it's my understanding that that portion of the
14:38:04 road would be turned into lake, yes.

14:38:07 >> The part that I'm looking at?
14:38:10 >>> Yes.
14:38:13 It already an existing lake there now.
14:38:15 We are going to be enlarging that lake.
14:38:17 >> I think you need --
14:38:21 >>I don't know if all the trees will be taken out but
14:38:23 I'm sure some of them would have to go.
14:38:28 >> And why are we doing this?
14:38:30 >>> It's for stormwater.
14:38:31 We already have an existing pond there.
14:38:33 And the Drew Park area, we are trying to improve the
14:38:36 drainage in that area.
14:38:38 And enlarge that pond, to store more water during rain
14:38:42 events.
14:38:45 >> Has this been through the Drew Park advisory
14:38:51 committee?
14:38:53 >>> I don't know the answer to that.
14:38:56 >> They were notified of the vacating.
14:38:58 I don't know about plans for the actual expansion but
14:39:01 they are notified of the vacating.
14:39:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Do you have a plan, or overhead to
14:39:07 show what surrounding this?

14:39:11 Is it residential?
14:39:15 If could you maybe just put that photograph up there.
14:39:23 >>> The majority of the property, all the red is
14:39:26 city-owned and that's already vacant.
14:39:28 The closest residential is this piece right here.
14:39:33 And then there's residential down the rest.
14:39:36 >>MARY MULHERN: Is this going to remain like a whole
14:39:39 fenced-off area?
14:39:44 >>> Yes, the it would be.
14:39:45 >> And is that the pond?
14:39:48 Is that the pond?
14:39:51 >>> Right here.
14:39:52 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
14:39:55 Just looks like there's a lot of trees there, and not
14:39:58 such a pad piece of land to be put in a retention
14:40:03 pond.
14:40:08 So the neighbors were notified, too?
14:40:11 >>> The only neighbor that was notified was there.
14:40:21 >>MARY MULHERN: It looks like north of there, there's
14:40:23 people.
14:40:24 I mean, not right next door to where you are adding
14:40:26 it.

14:40:27 And that isn't stormwater at this point.
14:40:28 >>> We just acquired this property from FDOT.
14:40:33 We own this piece and the piece right here was
14:40:35 acquired.
14:40:36 We did a property transfer.
14:40:39 >>> That was a few weeks ago.
14:40:40 >>MARY MULHERN: And the south part of it, too, that's
14:40:42 kind of abutting, looks like residential.
14:40:50 >>> I didn't research it.
14:40:51 I'm sorry.
14:40:52 >>> This area here is lots that were flooding.
14:40:57 We did have a lot of flooding problems in this
14:40:59 vicinity.
14:41:00 This city had purchased these lots with the intent of
14:41:03 creating some type of retention pond there.
14:41:11 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
14:41:15 I guess -- I don't know what the normal procedure is.
14:41:18 But it just seems like the neighbors should know that
14:41:20 that's going in.
14:41:21 But if it's going to be fenced and secure, and the
14:41:31 trees -- I feel really since Linda isn't here, I have
14:41:36 to talk about trees, protecting the trees.

14:41:39 But just make sure you protect the trees.
14:41:41 >>> Okay.
14:41:45 >>MARY MULHERN: Follow our tree ordinance.
14:41:47 >>> I'm sorry, I'm fairly new with the city so I'm not
14:41:50 sure if the stormwater department on these types of
14:41:53 projects -- I would assume that they would be running
14:41:54 it by parks just like any other development within the
14:41:57 city, if there's grandfathered trees there, we would
14:42:01 have to work around those.
14:42:03 >> Yes, it just has to do with telling you what you
14:42:08 can and can't do.
14:42:10 Thanks.
14:42:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else to address council?
14:42:14 Anyone else?
14:42:14 Motion to close?
14:42:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
14:42:17 >> Second.
14:42:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda?
14:42:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance for first
14:42:26 reading, vacating, closing, discontinuing, a certain
14:42:29 right-of-way portion of west Powhatan Avenue lying
14:42:35 south of Henry Avenue north of West Comanche Avenue

14:42:38 east of Lois Avenue and west of North Church Avenue
14:42:42 lying in section 33, township 28 south, range 18 east
14:42:46 in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County, Florida,
14:42:48 the same being more fully described in section 2
14:42:51 hereof, providing an effective date.
14:42:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second.
14:42:58 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder, Miller
14:43:00 and Saul-Sena absent at vote. Second reading of the
14:43:03 ordinance will be held April 16th at 9:30 a.m.
14:43:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 80.
14:43:08 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.
14:43:11 This is a joint petition by the City of Tampa,
14:43:14 Florida Department of Transportation and CSX railroad
14:43:17 to vacate several rights-of-way, to construct the
14:43:23 count connector, I-4 to the Lee Roy Selmon Expressway.
14:43:26 I have a shot of the overhead.
14:43:31 We are asking to vacate portions of 8th Avenue,
14:43:42 6th Avenue, 5th Avenue, 1st Avenue, and
14:43:45 30th street.
14:43:46 The portions of 8th Avenue, 6th Avenue,
14:43:49 5th Avenue lie between 31st and the railroad.
14:43:51 And the portion of 1st Avenue is between like

14:43:57 30th and 28th and the portion of 30th
14:43:59 street is south of 1st Avenue.
14:44:03 8th Avenue is partially paved.
14:44:05 6th Avenue is unimproved.
14:44:07 And abuts the railroad.
14:44:10 5th Avenue is totally paved.
14:44:11 First Avenue is unimproved.
14:44:13 And 30th street is unimproved.
14:44:16 I have shots of all of this area.
14:44:23 This is first Avenue.
14:44:26 And this is looking west from 30th street.
14:44:31 This is 30th street looking south at 1st
14:44:35 Avenue.
14:44:36 And they have already started some of the
14:44:40 construction.
14:44:40 And this is 8th Avenue looking west from 31st
14:44:44 street, and the first is paved and then it dead-ends
14:44:48 at the railroad.
14:44:50 This is a continuation of 8th Avenue.
14:44:54 This is not going to be vacated.
14:44:57 This is east 31st.
14:45:00 This is 6th Avenue.

14:45:01 This is a portion of south of the railroad tracks,
14:45:05 going to vacate.
14:45:07 And here is the other side of 6th Avenue, looking
14:45:10 east towards 31st.
14:45:15 Unimproved as well.
14:45:16 5th Avenue is the only totally improved road.
14:45:20 This is looking west from 31st street to the
14:45:22 railroad.
14:45:25 And it a dead-end at the railroad.
14:45:29 And here is 5th Avenue looking east towards
14:45:31 31st street.
14:45:35 And this was a continuation of 5th Avenue.
14:45:37 It not going to be a vacated.
14:45:39 This is east of 31st street.
14:45:43 I have a representative from FDOT to talk to you if
14:45:46 you have questions concerning the project, but there's
14:45:49 no objection -- staff has no objection to this request
14:45:52 and there are easements that need to be reserved for
14:45:56 water, stormwater, TECO, and Verizon.
14:46:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?
14:46:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a few questions.
14:46:07 It actually looks like to me the 8th Avenue.

14:46:10 Does 8th Avenue currently -- can you get from east
14:46:15 to the west on that road?
14:46:19 >>> No.
14:46:20 Let me get a picture of that.
14:46:32 >>MARY MULHERN: I see.
14:46:32 The one with the fence.
14:46:33 >>> On this side going to the Elmo for the overhead,
14:46:39 this is almost all railroad track.
14:46:43 The streets don't really go through.
14:46:46 >>MARY MULHERN: So that's a dead-end in there.
14:46:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I want to make sure
14:46:51 this is the project that will alleviate the traffic in
14:46:54 Ybor City, the semis coming in from the terminal?
14:46:59 >>> Steve Levine, Florida Department of
14:47:02 Transportation.
14:47:03 Yes, it is.
14:47:04 >>> I'm all in support of this.
14:47:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I just have a question because it been
14:47:07 coming up recently, on the MPO, and I don't know if
14:47:12 you will have the answer, but where are we with the
14:47:14 funding for this project?
14:47:18 >>> Ma'am, I just received word that we have received

14:47:20 federal stimulus funding to bring the project along.
14:47:23 >> Do you know how much?
14:47:25 >>> I do not know the exact amount.
14:47:27 It just came over my Blackberry that the project was
14:47:30 funded.
14:47:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name for the record again,
14:47:35 sir?
14:47:35 >>> My name is Steve Levine, Florida Department of
14:47:37 Transportation.
14:47:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:47:41 Thank you.
14:47:42 Any other questions?
14:47:43 Anyone from the public wish to address council on this
14:47:45 item?
14:47:45 Anyone from the public?
14:47:46 Motion to close.
14:47:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
14:47:48 >> Second.
14:47:49 (Motion carried).
14:47:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano?
14:47:52 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Number 80, correct?
14:47:59 An ordinance for first reading consideration, an

14:48:01 ordinance vacating, closing, discontinuing, and
14:48:04 abandoning a certain right-of-way a portion of 8th
14:48:06 Avenue, 6th Avenue, 5th Avenue, 1st
14:48:09 Avenue, and an extension of 30th street lying
14:48:12 south of 9th Avenue north of Adamo Drive, east of
14:48:15 30th street, and west of 31st street, in
14:48:18 Powells addition to east Ybor and in El-Valle
14:48:26 de Tampa, a subdivision located in the City of Tampa,
14:48:31 Hillsborough County, Florida, the same being more
14:48:32 fully described in section 2 hereof, providing an
14:48:34 effective date.
14:48:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
14:48:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
14:48:39 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:48:41 Opposes?
14:48:42 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena, Dingfelder
14:48:44 and Miller being absent at vote.
14:48:46 Second reading of the ordinance will be held April
14:48:49 16th at 9:30 a.m.
14:48:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 81.
14:49:01 Item 81.
14:49:08 >>JULIE KABOURGERIS: Legal department.

14:49:09 This is a request by New Port CDD to contract 1.18
14:49:22 acres from the CDD.
14:49:24 This ordinance would amend the boundaries of the CDD
14:49:29 and the petitioner is here, if you have any questions.
14:49:36 All the statutory requirements have been satisfied.
14:49:40 >>MARY MULHERN: Are we going to see which area you are
14:49:42 removing?
14:49:43 Do you have that?
14:49:44 Somebody?
14:49:48 >>> My name is Mark Straley, the attorney for the CDD
14:49:53 that is requesting this contraction.
14:49:56 I think I do have a map here.
14:50:00 >>MARY MULHERN: I think I might have found it.
14:50:05 I think I found it.
14:50:16 Is this it?
14:50:17 >>> Yes.
14:50:20 >> So the blacked in rectangle, is that on the border
14:50:26 of the CDD?
14:50:34 >>> Yes, it is on the border.
14:50:35 What happened here, council, the council established
14:50:38 the New Port CDD back in 2005.
14:50:42 The district issued some bonds, and subsequent to that

14:50:46 when the project was still a go, there was a plan to
14:50:50 slightly expand it and include a one-acre tract, and
14:50:54 we in fact petitioned council, and council expanded
14:50:57 the boundaries to include this one acre.
14:50:59 It was never incorporated into the PD for New Port but
14:51:04 the plan was it would become part of the New Port
14:51:08 development.
14:51:08 Then as a result of economic conditions, the New Port
14:51:12 project hasn't gotten out of the ground, as I assume
14:51:14 everyone knows, and the owner of the one-acre parcel,
14:51:18 you know, wants to get out of the district, so that
14:51:24 their title isn't encumbered by the fact that they are
14:51:28 technically speaking in the district.
14:51:30 They don't presently have any assessments or debt on
14:51:33 the property so we are basically asking council to
14:51:36 undue what was done in 2006.
14:51:39 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, so the owner who owns that
14:51:42 property wants out of the district.
14:51:43 >>> That's correct.
14:51:43 And Mr. Rice, a representative, the owner, is here
14:51:46 today.
14:51:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.

14:51:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
14:51:52 council on this issue?
14:51:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
14:51:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
14:51:56 (Motion carried)
14:51:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
14:51:59 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented
14:52:01 for first reading consideration, an ordinance of the
14:52:04 city of Tampa, Florida amending City of Tampa
14:52:06 ordinances 2005-233 and 2006-322, amending the
14:52:12 boundaries of the New Port Tampa Bay community
14:52:14 development district, providing for contraction of the
14:52:17 boundaries of the district by removing parcels of land
14:52:19 that will not be served by the district, which will
14:52:22 result in a net loss of 1.11 acres M.O.L. for a total
14:52:29 of 53.016 acres comprising the district and situated
14:52:34 entirely within the boundaries of the City of Tampa,
14:52:36 Hillsborough County Florida said district being
14:52:38 generally located near the intersection of Gandy
14:52:40 Boulevard and South Westshore Boulevard, the
14:52:44 contracted boundary being more particularly described
14:52:46 in section 2 hereof pursuant to chapter 190, Florida

14:52:49 statute, repealing all ordinances in conflict,
14:52:51 providing for severability, providing an effective
14:52:52 date.
14:52:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
14:52:57 Miranda.
14:52:58 All in favor say Aye.
14:52:59 Opposes?
14:52:59 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena, Dingfelder
14:53:02 and Miller being absent at vote.
14:53:04 Second reading of the ordinance will be held April
14:53:07 16th at 9:30 a.m.
14:53:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 82.
14:53:11 Continued public hearing.
14:53:17 Oh, I'm sorry.
14:53:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: (off microphone)
14:53:23 That was the last item then.
14:53:25 New business?
14:53:31 No new business?
14:53:33 Motion to receive and file?
14:53:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
14:53:36 >> Second.
14:53:37 (Motion carried).

14:53:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: At this time we take public comment.
14:53:40 Anyone wishing to address council, public comments?
14:53:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Line up to the right.
14:53:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No public comment, then we stand
14:53:48 adjourned.
14:53:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
14:53:51 (The City Council meeting adjourned at 2:54 p.m.)
14:59:34

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