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Tampa City Council meeting
Thursday, April 16, 2009
9:00 a.m. session

09:06:05 9:00 a.m. session
09:07:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council will now come to order.
09:07:16 We'll have roll call.
09:07:17 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:07:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:07:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:07:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:07:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:07:26 I would like to submit to the clerk a memo from
09:07:29 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:07:33 Stating the absence today for -- she's out of town.
09:07:37 So make that part of the record.
09:07:42 Also today, Mr. Shelby, if you will share the agenda
09:07:50 with us at this time:
09:07:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Good morning.
09:07:53 Before you, you have today's addendum to the agenda.
09:07:59 Under off-the-agenda items, new business, you have a
09:08:02 request via e-mail from council member Dingfelder
09:08:05 requesting a discussion be added under staff reports
09:08:08 and unfinished business regarding neighborhood
09:08:11 electric NEVs.
09:08:15 That is the first request of councilman Dingfelder.

09:08:17 The second request of councilman Dingfelder which came
09:08:20 in via e-mail is a That a discussion be added for
09:08:24 reclaimed hookup for irrigators using potable water in
09:08:28 a reclaimed area to be added to item 77 which is the
09:08:31 presentation by Brad Baird.
09:08:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On those two items, can you read what
09:08:40 the council rules are?
09:08:41 I want to preface that, council, because we have had
09:08:46 two years since I first came you all talked about what
09:08:52 the rules were in regard to the agenda.
09:08:56 What our rules and policies are.
09:08:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, rule 3-B-3 states that
09:09:00 approval of the agenda and adoption of minutes shall
09:09:02 be by majority vote of the entire council.
09:09:04 Prior to adoption, council may entertain additions,
09:09:09 deletions, substitutions, requests of council by city
09:09:12 staff and removal of items by the consent agenda for a
09:09:16 separate vote.
09:09:17 And again staff reports and unfinished business shall
09:09:20 be limited to five minutes followed by council
09:09:23 questions and comments, items requiring more time for
09:09:25 discussions, deliberations shall be scheduled as

09:09:27 workshops.
09:09:29 That's council's rules on that subject.
09:09:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I wanted to have that read because it
09:09:35 does not speak to the issue that when I came, with the
09:09:40 agenda, it had to have a vote on the floor of council
09:09:43 for anything to be added to the agenda.
09:09:45 That's the protocol since I have been here.
09:09:47 And so I got a call from the clerk saying that these
09:09:52 items want to be added but the agenda had already been
09:09:55 done.
09:09:55 And so I suggested adding them to the addendum so it
09:10:00 could be discussed at the following meeting, put on
09:10:02 the agenda for the following meeting, it's my
09:10:04 understanding, and he's not here, that he wanted
09:10:07 discussed today, which presents a problem cause my
09:10:10 understanding administration did not receive the
09:10:12 request, and then also it is somewhat out of the
09:10:16 purview or out of the ordinary procedure of council.
09:10:19 So I need to know how council wants to proceed on this
09:10:22 matter.
09:10:22 >>MARY MULHERN: It seems to me if Mr. Dingfelder is
09:10:28 here, has questions on the second item, item 77,

09:10:32 dealing with reclaimed water, he have that opportunity
09:10:34 to ask his questions of Mr. Baird, so I don't see any
09:10:40 reason we need to add that to the agenda.
09:10:42 He will have that opportunity if he's here.
09:10:48 And since he's not here, it's hard to discuss the
09:10:51 other items.
09:10:52 But I would think the there would need to be some
09:10:54 urgency if we need to put something on the agenda at
09:10:56 the last minute, and since he's not here we can't even
09:11:00 ask him why the electric vehicle needs to be on there.
09:11:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
09:11:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I agree also like council member
09:11:12 Mulhern.
09:11:12 I see nothing wrong with the request.
09:11:14 There were two urgent matters that were of extreme
09:11:19 emergency I would not be hesitant to put them on.
09:11:23 However, both of these I believe can wait and one of
09:11:28 them has the opportunity.
09:11:30 But the way I see it going, I would like to have legal
09:11:31 department give us a written report on the public
09:11:38 transportation commission, PTC.
09:11:40 There is a commission that was established by law some

09:11:42 years ago, and a council member of this council sits
09:11:49 on that commission.
09:11:50 I don't know if we as a board have the authority.
09:11:52 We can recommend and send something to that
09:11:54 commission, but I believe it is the body of that
09:11:56 commission that governs, allows or disallows the uses
09:12:02 of certain things within a geographic area.
09:12:05 And if I'm wrong, please have the legal department
09:12:07 correct me.
09:12:10 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, in the same words,
09:12:12 I'm on that committee, and it has come up for
09:12:15 discussion, and I think we need to wait until that
09:12:18 committee decides what they are going to do before we
09:12:20 start discussing it, because we are only going to be
09:12:24 spinning our wheels, and we don't know where it's
09:12:26 going.
09:12:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the question is back again then, so
09:12:29 the first item on the item to add that to the agenda
09:12:32 or do you want to place it on next week's agenda?
09:12:35 That's the bottom line question.
09:12:38 What I'm hearing from council is you don't think it
09:12:41 should be added.

09:12:44 >>MARY MULHERN: I think if Mr. Dingfelder were here to
09:12:46 explain why, but otherwise, is he going to be here?
09:12:50 Are we expecting him?
09:12:53 >> I understand he's on the way, but the problem,
09:12:54 council, is that we take up the agenda first, approve
09:12:57 the agenda, take public comment.
09:12:58 That's the problem that we find ourselves in today.
09:13:01 So, you know.
09:13:05 >>CHAIRMAN: The PTC, transportation committee, has not
09:13:11 even started discussing it, why are we discussing it?
09:13:13 I think we need to wait and see what's going to happen
09:13:17 there.
09:13:17 Like I say, we are just spinning our wheels trying to
09:13:20 do something we can't do.
09:13:21 So let's make let them make a decision to see if we
09:13:24 want to discuss it or not.
09:13:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I have two suggestions.
09:13:30 Number one, you can hold this till the end of approval
09:13:34 of the agenda, see if Mr. Dingfelder gets here by
09:13:36 then.
09:13:36 Number two, you cannot act on this and wait till he
09:13:39 gets here if you want to bring it up under new

09:13:41 business for a future agenda.
09:13:42 But he certainly has that opportunity.
09:13:43 Because council is doing a lot of speculation as to
09:13:47 what his purpose may be for wanting to discuss it and
09:13:49 I really can't say.
09:13:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then why don't we hold it under
09:13:55 abeyance under new business?
09:13:56 >> Thank you.
09:13:57 With regard to the NEV, number 77, you can raise that
09:14:03 question?
09:14:04 >> I think Councilwoman Mulhern makes a valid point.
09:14:10 Mr. Baird will be here, raise that question at that
09:14:13 time.
09:14:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You received a letter from councilman
09:14:16 Saul-Sena. Did you address that already?
09:14:18 >> Yes, we have.
09:14:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You received a memorandum from
09:14:21 councilman Miranda requesting that Dave Moore from the
09:14:23 southwest Florida water manage it district be allowed
09:14:25 to speak.
09:14:26 I believe it's immediately following, sir.
09:14:29 Number 77, which is a presentation by Brad Baird.

09:14:33 And there's another item that will be raised on e-mail
09:14:37 regarding MOSI that will be brought back under new
09:14:40 business.
09:14:42 Turning to substitutions of agenda items, we have a
09:14:44 request from the legal department to do a substitution
09:14:46 on the ordinance for number 5.
09:14:49 I believe it's a technical correction.
09:14:52 Did you want to address that and give that to the
09:14:54 clerk now?
09:14:58 >>JULIE KABOURGERIS: Legal department.
09:15:00 I'm presenting a substitution for number 5.
09:15:04 It's an encroachment, and just to comport -- the
09:15:10 removal requirements with the ordinance that was
09:15:12 adopted in 2005 for the same building.
09:15:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, with regard to item 34 on
09:15:23 the consent docket, there's a request by council
09:15:25 member Dingfelder that this item be pulled for
09:15:28 discussion.
09:15:30 That's item 34, the resolution regarding certified
09:15:33 records management.
09:15:37 And as a reminder to the public -- oh, excuse me.
09:15:41 Items 49 and 50, Mr. Chairman, you are going to be

09:15:44 bringing to the attention of council highlighting
09:15:47 those two items.
09:15:50 Items 84 and 85 -- excuse me.
09:15:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's an item that councilman
09:15:58 Dingfelder requested before.
09:16:01 Item 26, an e-mail.
09:16:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item 26, 2.4 million expenditure for
09:16:22 increased additional purchases.
09:16:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What item is that?
09:16:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item 26.
09:16:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I received an e-mail for item 26 and
09:16:33 34.
09:16:40 On item 26, do you want to address that?
09:16:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
09:16:44 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:16:45 That's a $4 million transfer of appropriation.
09:16:51 I just wanted to have Mr. Baird discuss it, pull it
09:16:54 and have Mr. Baird discuss it when he's up here for
09:16:57 his biweekly discussions.
09:17:02 I don't think I have a problem with that.
09:17:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not going to ask for a vote on
09:17:07 this.

09:17:07 If somebody wants to hold it, that's fine with me but
09:17:10 that's cost for purchasing of water and increasing
09:17:12 chemical costs.
09:17:13 They are rising very sharply in the water plant.
09:17:16 Let Mr. Baird discuss it.
09:17:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
09:17:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So item 26 and 34 by councilman
09:17:23 Dingfelder.
09:17:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It already got answered.
09:17:26 We don't have to dop that.
09:17:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we are placing that back?
09:17:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, sir.
09:17:31 I got an answer from staff.
09:17:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's 26.
09:17:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Madam clerk, you have that?
09:17:37 Thank you.
09:17:38 Finally, council, a reminder for the public on items
09:17:41 84 and 86.
09:17:43 84 and 86.
09:17:45 Those items have to be taken up because they are
09:17:48 public hearings but both of them will have requests to
09:17:51 continue.

09:17:54 The first being the vacation on the request -- excuse
09:18:04 me, Machado street, 23rd Avenue, 24th Avenue,
09:18:12 and that is going to be continued to June 4.
09:18:15 Likewise, the appeal of a decision of the VRB
09:18:20 regarding property at 123 south Hyde Park.
09:18:24 That is scheduled for this afternoon at 1:30.
09:18:26 There will be a request for a continuance, most
09:18:29 probably till June 4, but that will be taken up this
09:18:32 afternoon.
09:18:32 Other than that, Mr. Chairman, I have no other changes
09:18:34 to the agenda.
09:18:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other items to be pulled?
09:18:37 If not, motion to approve the agenda with the changes.
09:18:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.
09:18:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
09:18:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:18:47 Opposes?
09:18:48 We'll have public comment at this time.
09:18:50 Anyone who wishes to address council may come and line
09:18:52 up along the wall, and you have three minutes.
09:18:56 State your name and address.
09:18:57 And preference is given for items on the agenda first.

09:19:04 If you want to address council you may come line up,
09:19:08 you have state your name, and address for the record.
09:19:11 You have three minutes.
09:19:12 First speaker, please.
09:19:16 >>> Benjamin Buckley, resident, City of Tampa, city
09:19:19 employee.
09:19:20 I want to talk about item 31.
09:19:32 The resolution involving collective bargaining
09:19:36 agreement.
09:19:37 I want to ask the council to not -- to put this aside
09:19:40 and not put vote on this, or vote no against this.
09:19:44 My bosses are here today.
09:19:46 I'm a little nervous.
09:19:50 The thing that bothers me is since we voted on this,
09:19:55 since the employees voted on this, there's been a few
09:19:58 things that have changed.
09:20:01 One of the things, the mayor at her state of the city
09:20:05 speech, she mentioned that everyone shouldn't be --
09:20:13 there shouldn't be a climate of fear with the
09:20:15 employees.
09:20:20 Also, she said she would take no drastic measures.
09:20:30 And the thing that's happened since we voted in our

09:20:34 department -- I work in the construction service
09:20:36 center.
09:20:37 We have had an announcement of layoffs.
09:20:40 There's been 91 people slated for layoff.
09:20:46 It's kind of a strange layoff because we are going to
09:20:49 hire back perhaps about 70 of these people.
09:20:54 So 20 people are going to lose their job, effectively.
09:20:58 All these folks are going to get reclassified.
09:21:00 But I think after the smoke clears and everything is
09:21:03 all done, I think everybody is going to be doing the
09:21:05 same job.
09:21:06 I'm a building inspector.
09:21:08 And I work with plan reviewers, permit technicians,
09:21:13 and I don't think anything is really going to change
09:21:15 in the building department.
09:21:16 But I want you all not to vote on this, because of
09:21:19 that.
09:21:21 And I think we need to talk about this before anything
09:21:26 happens here.
09:21:27 I know everybody likes to get a raise.
09:21:30 And that's what this is about, I guess.
09:21:31 I don't know, 2.5%.

09:21:34 But nobody likes to get laid off.
09:21:36 And I know there's a lot of jobs in the city.
09:21:40 The mayor has said that she is wanting to find other
09:21:46 places in her talk in the state of the city.
09:21:53 Anyway, there's a lot of issues that have come up
09:21:55 since this started.
09:22:01 The other thing, a lot of people don't know what we do
09:22:03 over there.
09:22:04 I know you folks probably get calls every week about
09:22:06 how we are holding somebody up on a project, or the
09:22:09 plans aren't approved and so on.
09:22:11 But I don't think we do that to hurt people.
09:22:15 We do that for public safety.
09:22:18 We want to make sure that every building is safe, life
09:22:25 safety issues, and on the architectural, sometimes we
09:22:28 look at things about the overlays and different
09:22:31 various neighborhoods.
09:22:32 It's a pretty important job.
09:22:34 We don't have the high profile like the police or the
09:22:36 firemen, but I want you to consider that.
09:22:43 And the other thing, this reorganization, in my
09:22:46 opinion, it's just a talk.

09:22:49 (Bell sounds)
09:22:50 It doesn't really mean that we are reorganized.
09:22:52 Like I say, we are going to be doing the same jobs.
09:22:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Your time is up, sir.
09:22:56 Thank you.
09:23:04 >>> Good morning, my name is Philip Smith, the
09:23:07 vice-president for Crossland.
09:23:09 I would like to talk about the seven-acre property
09:23:11 that we own at the southeast corner of Lois Avenue and
09:23:14 Spruce Street in the context of the Central Park
09:23:18 memorandum that's in front of you today, and also in
09:23:20 the larger context of the affordable housing cycle for
09:23:25 2009.
09:23:26 This project, we have had a PD approval from this body
09:23:30 in June of 2007 for about 345 market rate apartment
09:23:36 units, about 12,000 feet of retail and 168 affordable
09:23:40 housing units for seniors.
09:23:41 And that portion of the project came out of a
09:23:46 year-long, very close collaboration with the Carver
09:23:48 City, Lincoln Gardens neighborhood groups to identify
09:23:52 what they needed the most.
09:23:54 The very beginning of the process.

09:23:55 And they came to us and said, we are being compressed
09:23:58 from all sides, living in Westshore.
09:24:01 This is in 2006.
09:24:03 All of this development is coming into our
09:24:06 neighborhood.
09:24:07 We are aging in our homes.
09:24:08 We don't wants to stay here.
09:24:09 He would don't want to stay in a home ownership
09:24:12 situation anymore.
09:24:12 We would like a low maintenance rental situation, but
09:24:15 the problem is there's no place to go and stay in
09:24:18 Carver City and Lincoln Gardens, can you help us?
09:24:21 And we said, sure.
09:24:22 So we created a stand-alone, affordable tax credit
09:24:25 housing development for seniors.
09:24:27 At that property.
09:24:28 At the southernmost one acre of the property.
09:24:31 It so happens that type of zoning request is pretty
09:24:34 unusual, in 2006, but it still happens today, maybe by
09:24:42 happy luck, that's one of the few viable financing
09:24:44 tools that's available for housing to developers like
09:24:46 Crossland in this particular marketplace.

09:24:49 And to keep moving on this project and to keep this
09:24:51 thing going and under construction and making our
09:24:54 commitment to the Carver City Lincoln Gardens
09:24:57 neighborhood, we want to start this affordable housing
09:25:00 project.
09:25:00 So we began the initial discussions with certain
09:25:06 people in the city and discovered that we were simply
09:25:13 unable to apply this year because all the funds were
09:25:15 committed to the Central Park project.
09:25:18 And our application would reduce the chances of the
09:25:21 Central Park project getting funded in the first
09:25:23 place.
09:25:23 And I have nothing against the Central Park project.
09:25:25 It's perfectly reasonable proposal and we should be
09:25:28 promoting affordable housing in downtown, and in fact
09:25:30 my company is pursuing affordable home market deals in
09:25:35 downtown Tampa so I have got no issue with that at
09:25:37 all.
09:25:38 But we committed to the Carver City Lincoln Gardens
09:25:40 neighborhood that we were going to build this project,
09:25:42 and we received an approval to do so, and the project
09:25:45 deserves a fair shot at the money that's out there,

09:25:48 and currently it's just not getting there.
09:25:53 Until the process with all the allocated funds for
09:25:56 affordable housing are limited to only a select few
09:25:58 projects is to move away for the entire system that
09:26:00 the lottery system was conducted in the first place,
09:26:03 which was to allow an open chance for any neighborhood
09:26:05 to submit any application and get the same opportunity
09:26:08 for funding as all the others do.
09:26:10 And I would imagine that it isn't or wasn't the public
09:26:14 policy intent of the administration to reduce the
09:26:18 chances of getting an affordable housing project done.
09:26:21 But as it sits today, by not accepting competing
09:26:25 applications, that's the effective result.
09:26:27 And the process is just simply inequitable and needs
09:26:31 to be addressed.
09:26:33 Thank you.
09:26:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
09:26:39 >>> And, DA development, representing Crossland as
09:26:45 their development partner.
09:26:46 As Mr. Smith said, we would like to apply this year
09:26:50 for a senior affordable housing tax development.
09:26:55 The state's round is coming up here at the end of May,

09:26:58 and in order to apply, we need to have a $200,000 net
09:27:02 contribution from the city.
09:27:04 That contribution can be a waiver of fees, it could be
09:27:07 a interest free loan, it could be a variety of things,
09:27:11 it could be a commitment on future projects as well.
09:27:14 We have been told, obviously we have discussed this
09:27:17 with staff, and been told that the only project the
09:27:20 city is going to support are the two Central Park
09:27:23 projects, and as Mr. Smith mentioned we don't object
09:27:26 to those projects, we support them, we would like to
09:27:28 see a oh -- we are affordable housing advocates and
09:27:32 the more housing the better for Hillsborough County
09:27:33 and for the City of Tampa.
09:27:36 However, not letting us apply, I think the position of
09:27:44 the council is that supporting other projects is
09:27:48 somehow going to diminish the Central Park's
09:27:51 applications and the ability to get funding.
09:27:53 We think that's inaccurate.
09:27:57 There will be other projects that will be submitted
09:27:59 this year, because the City Council is not supporting
09:28:01 any other new construction projects, I think what's
09:28:05 going to happen is other developers will go out and

09:28:07 find rehab deals, and they don't need contribution
09:28:11 from the city.
09:28:11 So I think if the city's goal is to get new
09:28:15 construction, new affordable housing, the council
09:28:18 needs to supports as many deals as possible.
09:28:23 That's consistent with what oats communities are
09:28:25 doing.
09:28:27 And you guys have the right to do whatever you want to
09:28:29 do.
09:28:29 But, for example, Orange County and Miami-Dade county
09:28:33 are still having application rounds today, and they
09:28:36 are going to support 30 or 40 deals this year.
09:28:39 The reason they are supporting 30 or 40 deals is
09:28:41 because the state's lottery system is set up such that
09:28:46 the final tie-breaker on this scoring process is the
09:28:49 lottery number, and if developers get a bad lottery
09:28:52 number, high lottery numbers, they are not going to
09:28:54 get funded.
09:28:55 So these other counties think that the more
09:28:57 applications they support, again conditional support,
09:29:01 we don't get the tax credits, we don't get the money,
09:29:04 these other communities think the more applications

09:29:06 they support the more likely it is they are going to
09:29:08 get an affordable housing development here, and we
09:29:10 encourage the City Council to do what these other
09:29:13 communities are doing.
09:29:15 It's entirely right that the Central Park project will
09:29:19 get high lottery numbers, or bad lottery numbers and
09:29:25 have no chance of funding and it's entirely likely in
09:29:28 that case the city will get no new construction
09:29:31 developments.
09:29:32 As Mr. Smith mentioned, the site we have, at Lois and
09:29:36 Spruce, is zoned for senior affordable housing, was
09:29:39 zoned specifically for that purpose, the taxpayer
09:29:41 program is the only viable method to finance this.
09:29:44 We have a perfect score in our application but for the
09:29:47 contribution, and we would like the City Council to
09:29:49 consider making the contribution to that project as
09:29:51 well.
09:29:53 Thanks.
09:29:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just have legal to address that
09:29:58 issue, because given the way we are structured, I
09:30:05 thought I kind of discussed this issue earlier, a
09:30:09 strong mayor form of government that all council can

09:30:11 do is vote up or down what's on the agenda.
09:30:14 So does city attorney wants to speak to the issue of
09:30:20 this funding for affordable housing?
09:30:24 From a legal standpoint?
09:30:34 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.
09:30:35 If I understand the question correctly, the issue is
09:30:37 how does the allocation of affordable housing dollars
09:30:41 occur?
09:30:42 My understanding -- and I probably need to either get
09:30:45 back with you or somebody else so staff can address
09:30:48 that, but I think what's happened is that through
09:30:52 prior action of primarily the administration, that the
09:30:55 dollars are available, have been basically used up
09:30:59 with the Central Park project, and that's been in
09:31:02 place for some time, I think over a year now.
09:31:05 So I don't know that that's the posture of where we
09:31:09 are right now we can change that.
09:31:11 But if I can get back to you as to the appropriate
09:31:14 decision-maker between the administration and council
09:31:17 on that issue.
09:31:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't wants to belabor this
09:31:26 during public comment section, but this is the first I

09:31:28 heard of this.
09:31:29 I didn't hear from it from staff, I didn't hear it
09:31:32 from Mr. Rotella or Crossland but it sounds like it's
09:31:36 something we need to discuss but I think I am going to
09:31:42 ask to pull item 50 so Cindy can tell us staff's
09:31:45 perspective on this and then we can have a little
09:31:47 discussion about it, if we do have any other options
09:31:49 at all.
09:31:50 So that would be my intent.
09:31:52 I won't do it now, Mr. Chairman.
09:31:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's fine.
09:31:56 We can pull it for highlight, but the issue is one of
09:32:02 the executive branch versus the legislative. That's
09:32:04 the issue, because, as I understand it, again, the
09:32:08 administration recommends to us on the allocation, and
09:32:17 we have generally, I have been told, vote it up oh are
09:32:20 down.
09:32:21 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I think the other piece, I think
09:32:23 the highlight to Central Park Village goes back prior
09:32:25 to today, prior to the last time it was on council's
09:32:29 agenda, back some time where these commitments have
09:32:31 been made, and approved by both the administration --

09:32:35 We can take it up a little later, yes.
09:32:36 >>MARY MULHERN: This will be a question for you and
09:32:40 for Cindy or someone when we discuss this later, but I
09:32:43 would like to hear -- I remember also approving this
09:32:45 project.
09:32:47 So I want to hear how that decision has been made to
09:32:52 only support the Central Park project.
09:32:56 Because I know that this project came in front of us,
09:32:59 too.
09:33:00 And I would like to know if we approved the funding
09:33:03 for that, too.
09:33:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
09:33:11 >>> Hi.
09:33:12 My name is Sriram Mudhasoudavan, student at USF, and I
09:33:20 have been interning this semester with City Councilman
09:33:22 Mary Mulhern.
09:33:23 I have been enjoying it, learning a lot.
09:33:26 We are part of a group that is not necessarily under
09:33:28 discussion.
09:33:29 It's coming up next week during the workshop on green
09:33:31 jobs.
09:33:32 But we will have a time won't have time to come

09:33:36 because it's getting closer to finals so I ask your
09:33:39 forgiveness for.
09:33:40 That but I don't stand -- stand before council as a
09:33:45 citizen of Tampa Bay.
09:33:45 We have a few speakers with us, and we have one --' we
09:33:49 represent more students who couldn't make it out today
09:33:51 because of classes or other commitments.
09:33:53 But we are part of a national movement of thousands of
09:33:55 students and youth to end our economic depression and
09:33:59 the worst effects of cat a class Mick climate changes
09:34:03 change by investing in a structure and green jobs.
09:34:07 The city council on these kinds of issues that are
09:34:09 coming before City Council aren't just occurring in
09:34:11 Florida.
09:34:13 California, Texas, North Carolina, many other places
09:34:16 across the world and the country are observing this.
09:34:19 I was recently living with a family in a place that's
09:34:23 usually green, receives plenty of monsoon rainfall,
09:34:26 water levels were down, people were suffering.
09:34:30 Clearly this is having an effect.
09:34:32 And we can expect more of this extreme weather.
09:34:34 Now, this result has shown us in times of economic

09:34:37 depression we are we really do need investment that
09:34:39 creates jobs, and clean jobs, energy and investments
09:34:44 are something we need to take advantage of.
09:34:46 And there will be opportunities that this will come
09:34:47 before council.
09:34:48 Predictions from top scientists showing worse case
09:34:51 scenarios as drought, and you saw this, any
09:34:54 environmental problem, has economic repercussions.
09:35:01 And global warming estimated by scientists to be up to
09:35:06 about a third of world GDP as measured in billions of
09:35:10 dollars.
09:35:11 So that gives you some idea of just how much.
09:35:14 Tampa will have a share in that cost.
09:35:18 The cost of action in contrast investing in green jobs
09:35:20 is about one percent of global GDP to the year 2050.
09:35:25 These are numbers that have come out of the government
09:35:28 of the United Kingdom.
09:35:29 Clearly it's not a matter of how or what because we
09:35:32 have heard the answers.
09:35:33 It's a matter of when and the wrong answer could carry
09:35:36 a very heavy price tag.
09:35:38 Thank you.

09:35:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:35:40 Next speaker.
09:35:43 >>> Hi.
09:35:43 My name is Kate Madison, a senior at University of
09:35:46 South Florida, and I live at 1412 east Idlewild Avenue
09:35:50 in Seminole Heights.
09:35:52 It's pretty clear we are going to be faced with a dire
09:35:56 situation if we don't take action soon.
09:35:58 So there's already many things that you guys as our
09:36:00 city leaders can do to ensure the safety and
09:36:02 prosperity of our generation.
09:36:04 And generations to come.
09:36:06 I'm really excited to see that the scheduling of next
09:36:09 week's council workshop on green jobs.
09:36:12 There's millions of dollars available for small
09:36:13 programs on green jobs training.
09:36:16 That includes among many other things weatherizing
09:36:19 homes, improving building energy efficiency, and other
09:36:23 jobs that allow local clean energy infrastructure.
09:36:27 We ask that you would partner with green jobs for the
09:36:29 people coalition to help bring these jobs to Tampa.
09:36:33 Second as our city leaders you travel in political

09:36:36 circles that we do not.
09:36:38 Spread the message.
09:36:39 We need your help and support to champion this issue.
09:36:42 We need help to keep clean coal options out of the
09:36:47 portfolio which claims to have 20% clean energy by
09:36:51 2020.
09:36:52 We need to make sure that it will not affect our city
09:36:56 because these options are not only toxic, highly
09:36:59 polluting, but much more expensive and have less
09:37:01 potential to generate jobs in solar and wind power.
09:37:04 Climate change and the incredible potential of green
09:37:07 jobs is not about right or left or red or blue. It's
09:37:12 a human issue.
09:37:12 Thank you.
09:37:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:37:17 Next speaker.
09:37:18 >> My name is Josh Holton, and I'm a concerned
09:37:22 citizen. I live out in Odessa.
09:37:27 What I would really like to not see the City of Tampa
09:37:36 fail or fall to the wayside due to catastrophic and
09:37:37 cataclysmic change.
09:37:39 I'm a fifth generation Floridian and preservationist.

09:37:42 I grew up in Tampa in, Hyde Park Village.
09:37:44 Only a few blocks from Bayshore Boulevard.
09:37:48 Most of my life seeing the effects of minor flooding
09:37:51 on coastal traffic has been a cautionary tale at the
09:37:53 very least.
09:37:54 Watching people commute down Bayshore during a
09:37:56 tropical storm or hurricane has always been a reminder
09:37:58 of the vulnerability of some of Tampa's most affluent
09:38:02 and prosperous communities in the face of potential
09:38:04 climate change.
09:38:06 After high school, I went to earn my bachelors of arts
09:38:09 degree in political science and Loyola university of
09:38:12 New Orleans from 2004 to 2008.
09:38:14 My fears grew as I witnessed the evacuation of New
09:38:17 Orleans during the hurricane Ivan.
09:38:19 My fears were confirmed a year later in 2005 when I
09:38:23 evacuated New Orleans for hurricane Katrina in 2005.
09:38:27 I flew into Tampa, and go to my family's new house in
09:38:32 Odessa.
09:38:33 We have a house on a lake now.
09:38:34 So our vulnerability to the effects of climate change
09:38:37 are even greater now.

09:38:38 I spent a semester in another Jesuit college in
09:38:41 San Francisco and decided to return to the city of New
09:38:43 Orleans feeling the storm.
09:38:45 The damage, disarray and destruction were too powerful
09:38:49 for words.
09:38:49 The effects of the surge and the flooding were a
09:38:51 nightmare.
09:38:52 Over a million jobs were lost and 105 billion has been
09:38:56 sought by the Bush Administration since 2006 for the
09:38:59 region making this the costliest natural disaster in
09:39:01 U.S. history, including tax relief, $127 billion has
09:39:06 already been spent in addressing the issues caused by
09:39:09 hurricane Katrina.
09:39:10 This is astounding since the 127 billion dollars
09:39:13 almost matches the state's 141 billion gross domestic
09:39:18 product.
09:39:18 Please save Tampa from the terrible fate that has
09:39:21 befallen New Orleans, our sister and the Gulf.
09:39:25 Act now to protect our beaches, beautiful streams and
09:39:28 city from flooding due to extreme climate change by
09:39:31 supporting new and renewable technologies like wind,
09:39:35 solar, geothermal, tidal, and biomass and many other

09:39:40 options besides dirty coal plants, and there's no such
09:39:44 thing as clean coal, by the way.
09:39:45 If you remember, actor Brad Pitt built pink houses in
09:39:53 New Orleans, to show that the rebuilding efforts in
09:39:53 New Orleans could actually address some of these
09:39:55 issues by rebuilding green and sustainable housing.
09:39:58 This is something we can prevent by retrofitting
09:40:00 housing in Tampa right now with green and supportable
09:40:03 standards such as the LEED standards, and by making
09:40:06 sure that we are not contributing any further to
09:40:09 climate change by adding greenhouse gases into the
09:40:12 atmosphere.
09:40:13 Thank you very much for your time.
09:40:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:40:15 Next speaker.
09:40:18 >>> Janie Trahan, 911 east Louisiana Avenue and will
09:40:25 be a student at USF this fall.
09:40:31 Green jobs are essential for humane reasons.
09:40:34 It is very essential for human health and safety and
09:40:37 for economic stability.
09:40:39 The reason that I am addressing you all today is that
09:40:41 I would like to stress the importance of green jobs

09:40:43 from an economic standpoint.
09:40:45 It is clear that the job market in Tampa needs to be
09:40:49 revised.
09:40:51 I can personally attest to the importance of this
09:40:53 issue.
09:40:54 I got my degree in chemical engineering in the spring
09:40:58 of last year, and my sole purpose of getting the
09:41:05 degree was to study renewable energy.
09:41:07 I unfortunately could not find a job in that field
09:41:09 especially here in Tampa so I got a job at a
09:41:12 construction company a few months later after
09:41:13 graduating, and then laid off this past February.
09:41:19 I can say I have never experienced such a low point in
09:41:22 my life, and it's apparently something that someone
09:41:25 can't really understand unless they go through it
09:41:28 themselves.
09:41:29 I thought this was something that I was just going
09:41:31 through myself, but then I kept hearing the same story
09:41:35 over and over again from a lot of different people
09:41:37 that are going through depression.
09:41:39 It really scares me to think over 250,000 people are
09:41:43 walking around the State of Florida without jobs and

09:41:46 have families to feed or have lost their health care.
09:41:52 So with that in mind, I would like to ask you to help
09:41:56 bring green jobs to Tampa not just for me and not for
09:41:59 all of the other students at USF that want a green
09:42:02 job, that wants to work on sustainable technology but
09:42:05 for everyone from every economic background.
09:42:07 This is the opportunities to give people from low
09:42:10 income communities a job, people who normally don't
09:42:13 have many employment options here in Tampa.
09:42:19 You are going to give them a chance to have a job that
09:42:21 can make a difference in the world.
09:42:23 So with that in mind, green jobs for all.
09:42:26 Thank you.
09:42:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:42:27 Next speaker.
09:42:31 >>> My name is Joe Bursky, a student at USF, and my
09:42:35 address is 5105 Experience Boulevard.
09:42:40 Allow me first to thank all of you City Council
09:42:43 members to listen for the words we have to say.
09:42:46 We all stand before you only with our words.
09:42:48 But let me remind that you words are the means to
09:42:53 meaning and for those listening the a truth is there's

09:42:56 something terribly wrong with our country right now.
09:42:59 We need to remind you all that justice and freedom are
09:43:02 more than just words.
09:43:03 They are perspectives.
09:43:06 I ask that everyone in here, that if you have seen
09:43:09 what we have seen, if you feel what we feel, if you
09:43:12 seek as we seek, then please stand beside us right
09:43:15 now.
09:43:16 For only when we stand united, no matter how different
09:43:19 we are, only then will we be able to make a moment no
09:43:25 one will ever be able to forget.
09:43:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:43:28 Next speaker.
09:43:30 >>> Chip Thomas, 1219 east henner Avenue.
09:43:34 Nothing is more important than water.
09:43:35 Not everyone close.
09:43:36 If we don't get it right on water then everything else
09:43:39 discussed in this room becomes meaningless.
09:43:41 So I want to talk about that and watering
09:43:43 restrictions, and we are going to have to talk about
09:43:46 grass.
09:43:47 But first let me just say that maybe even more absurd

09:43:51 than using drinking water on lawns is the fact that we
09:43:53 use a gallon and a half drinking water every time we
09:43:56 flush.
09:43:57 And this needs to be address at some point probably
09:44:01 sooner than later, whether it's a big public works
09:44:05 project, which involves time and money, or wait for
09:44:07 the market to come up with water-free commodes and
09:44:13 come post in commodes.
09:44:14 I don't know. But that's going to take time and
09:44:16 money.
09:44:16 The restrictions can be addressed right now.
09:44:18 When we allow any use of drinking water for turf
09:44:22 grass, we are taking a gamble.
09:44:23 We are making a bet that, one, the rains get back to
09:44:26 normal, what we consider normal, soon, in fact above
09:44:30 normal because there's a lot of ground to make up.
09:44:34 We are betting that, two, the desal and reservoir
09:44:38 become functional.
09:44:38 And, three, most important, we are gambling that the
09:44:41 current population is long-term sustainable by our
09:44:45 current water resources.
09:44:46 And I don't think anybody even knows if the population

09:44:49 back in 1980 was sustainable, and it's doubled since
09:44:54 then.
09:44:54 So that seems to be a pretty big gamble.
09:44:59 There's a very poor risk reward associated with this
09:45:01 gamble we are taking.
09:45:03 The reward would be some green healthy looking lawns
09:45:06 around town for the time being.
09:45:08 The risk is higher, much higher water costs, water
09:45:12 rationing, maybe even limited irrigation for
09:45:16 agriculture, and inability of the area to support the
09:45:19 current population.
09:45:21 We are headed in that direction.
09:45:23 That minimum reward, very bad risk.
09:45:28 Since so much of the debate about watering
09:45:30 restrictions centers around this turf grass, let's
09:45:32 talk about the cost benefit of that.
09:45:34 You have heard from people related to the industry
09:45:37 that it creates oxygen, and it cools down the air.
09:45:40 Well, compared to AstroTurf or pavement or gravel,
09:45:44 yeah, that's true.
09:45:46 You have also heard that it filters water.
09:45:48 But there's three inches of a blade of grass and three

09:45:51 inches of roots and soil due to filtering, or is it
09:45:55 the 40, 60, 08 feet of sand, gravel and limestone
09:45:58 between the surface and the aquifer that does the
09:46:00 filtering?
09:46:01 So benefits are aesthetic, period.
09:46:03 The costs, well, we compromise our water supply and
09:46:07 quality, the health of our rivers, our bays, our
09:46:10 lakes, the Gulf, all that's at risk.
09:46:13 Our overall ecosystem, just to maintain grass, which
09:46:17 is a highly unsustainable plant in this area, and
09:46:20 therefore all the industries associated with it are
09:46:23 unsustainable.
09:46:25 And they are destined to fail.
09:46:27 It's a matter of time.
09:46:28 And there are other options for all these people.
09:46:30 Irrigators can retrofit laundry machines so the
09:46:36 phosphate-laden water goes into the yard instead of
09:46:39 back into the bay.
09:46:40 And sod growers can grow natives and drought-resistant
09:46:46 ground covers.
09:46:47 And imagine if we use all resources that we apply to
09:46:52 grass, if we use that on home gardens, growing food.

09:46:56 That's something the lawn care industry, if you are
09:46:58 willing to pay someone to come every week or two to
09:47:00 cut your grass, you are going to pay somebody to come
09:47:03 cultivate your garden.
09:47:04 You know, the healthiest --
09:47:08 (Bell sounds).
09:47:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir next speaker.
09:47:14 >>> My name is Moses Knott, Jr., I resign at 2902 East
09:47:22 Ellicott street three nights a week and again I thank
09:47:25 God for his grace and his mercy.
09:47:31 Mr. Chairman, I want to talk about water.
09:47:32 And then I want to talk about Central Park where they
09:47:36 are going to spend all that money over there.
09:47:37 Don't know what happened.
09:47:38 The money is gone.
09:47:39 But this water thing.
09:47:41 Every year I come to this podium here and talk about
09:47:47 what you all can do about the drought.
09:47:49 Now let me tell you all.
09:47:50 I'm a Bible student.
09:47:52 I been in Bible class for 20-some years and all the
09:47:57 sin over my head but changed my life, going to Bible

09:48:00 class.
09:48:02 Praying for rain.
09:48:03 I mean, this man was the only man out there that would
09:48:06 pray for rain.
09:48:06 But these peoples had rain in three and a half years.
09:48:11 And all of them, the ground had cracked, cows were
09:48:16 dying, people were dying.
09:48:19 Same thing in Africa right now.
09:48:21 But all this come from sin.
09:48:22 But let me tell you what happened.
09:48:25 ELI prayed for that rain for seven days, and the
09:48:29 people put their faith.
09:48:30 I didn't hear nobody here talk about faith.
09:48:34 I haven't heard nobody say, oh and talk about Tampa
09:48:41 water, county water.
09:48:43 That's God's water.
09:48:47 Told you time after time, read the Bible.
09:48:50 You know, this makes me so upset.
09:48:53 But ELI prayed seven days and the shun was shining.
09:48:57 The sun was so hot it was burning up people.
09:48:59 But he told them to go up on the mountain and look for
09:49:02 a cloud, and he came running back and he said, I see a

09:49:06 cloud about the size of a man's hand, and waterfalls
09:49:09 down.
09:49:09 And these people got blessed.
09:49:12 Now let me tell you all about what this drought is all
09:49:17 about.
09:49:17 Sin.
09:49:18 You know, I used to wade in sin until I found out.
09:49:23 This town is called sin city.
09:49:25 When we had the Super Bowl here, people wading in sin.
09:49:31 The politicians spent all this money now for poor
09:49:33 people.
09:49:34 It's gone.
09:49:35 But I'm going to tell you all right now, everybody got
09:49:37 to have faith.
09:49:38 I told you every year I come to this podium.
09:49:40 This is my first time here because I got a part-time
09:49:43 job in port Manatee load unloading ships and loading
09:49:48 them back.
09:49:49 God blessed me with a job part time to do that.
09:49:52 But what I'm saying, people got to pray for the rain
09:49:55 and quit sinning.
09:49:56 I mean quit it.

09:49:59 Do like me, I cut way back.
09:50:02 [ Laughter ]
09:50:03 And thank you all very much.
09:50:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Knott.
09:50:18 Okay.
09:50:19 >>> Sal Chillura, Landscape pros.
09:50:26 I want to talk about the water restrictions as well.
09:50:29 One thing that I think some people misconstrued, as
09:50:34 landscapers, we do not recommend turf as a first
09:50:38 option.
09:50:40 There are certain instances where customers want turf
09:50:44 and will try to recommend whatever the best turf would
09:50:48 be for that area, whether it be Bahia or what have you
09:50:52 which requires less water, but we do not recommend
09:50:55 turf as a first alternative.
09:50:59 The gentleman that spoke earlier about the sod being
09:51:02 strictly aesthetics is that is definitely not factual.
09:51:05 That's another story.
09:51:06 But right now the main thing is the water
09:51:08 conservation.
09:51:10 Even Florida friendly yards, which are highly
09:51:12 recommended by everyone in our industry, whether

09:51:16 Florida nursery gardens and landscapers association or
09:51:18 Florida irrigation society, they all require an
09:51:21 establishment period to get them established.
09:51:24 And they are drought tolerant but they are not drought
09:51:28 resistant.
09:51:29 There's nothing that's drought proof other than a
09:51:33 cactus, I imagine.
09:51:35 So you still need to have an establishment period and
09:51:38 that's one of the things that were not addressed by
09:51:40 the city.
09:51:40 We would like to see something with the establishment
09:51:42 period.
09:51:43 Even for Florida-friendly landscapes.
09:51:47 Bahia, sod requires very little water after it's
09:51:51 established but you do need to get it established.
09:51:54 Certain native plants, same thing.
09:51:56 You have got to get them established.
09:51:58 One other item that I wanted to address is getting a
09:52:03 CO, when you do a construction job or renovation.
09:52:07 Usually it's new construction.
09:52:10 The last thing that goes in is the landscaping and the
09:52:13 irrigation.

09:52:14 That's required by your city code.
09:52:16 You have to have landscaping and irrigation.
09:52:20 When you get to the final station stages of
09:52:23 construction, they are not going to give you a C.O. if
09:52:27 you don't have that in there, and if we can't get it
09:52:29 established, that's going to hinder the whole process.
09:52:32 So we would like to see some exception for new
09:52:34 construction in that regard.
09:52:37 Thank you for your time.
09:52:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think that's a legitimate issue that
09:52:41 we need to look at.
09:52:43 That was not included but we'll take a look at.
09:52:45 Mr. Fletcher, do you want to speak to that now?
09:52:48 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Two things.
09:52:51 One is the establishment period.
09:52:52 We do have the new plantings and establishment period
09:52:55 in our code and so does the water management district
09:52:58 in their emergency order.
09:53:00 So there is between the two how long that is, but it's
09:53:03 at least two weeks.
09:53:04 And so there is that opportunity.
09:53:06 And then I think Ms. Miller can address how we handled

09:53:09 the situation where you have got new construction that
09:53:13 needs landscaping as part of their proposed
09:53:16 development plan.
09:53:19 >>CINDY MILLER: Director growth management development
09:53:21 services.
09:53:22 Under previous drought conditions a few years ago, we
09:53:25 had investigated the code at that time, and we have
09:53:29 taken another look at it as well now.
09:53:32 We believe that the code gives us the flexibility so
09:53:34 we can issue a temporary C.O. for new construction.
09:53:38 And that the landscaping can then be put, I believe
09:53:40 it's a six-month delay.
09:53:43 Six-month delay.
09:53:44 And we do believe we can do that.
09:53:46 Mr. Barrios has already implemented that.
09:53:48 I believe the code gives us that flexibility so I
09:53:50 believe that's been addressed.
09:53:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:53:52 >>CINDY MILLER: And we will continue to work with
09:53:54 industry for that.
09:53:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:53:57 Our time is up, and my line is growing longer instead

09:54:01 of shorter.
09:54:03 I am going to allow for these gentlemen to speak but
09:54:09 two minutes and no one else.
09:54:11 That's it.
09:54:11 We are already over.
09:54:12 So I am going to cut the time down to two minutes.
09:54:15 So these people along the wall may come forward.
09:54:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, just so people do
09:54:20 understand, at the end of the meeting for those people
09:54:21 who don't have an opportunity to speak, they are
09:54:23 allowed the opportunity to address.
09:54:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, you are allowed at the end of
09:54:26 City Council to come back and speak, if you didn't
09:54:29 speak this morning, you can come back at the end of
09:54:32 the day and speak.
09:54:33 Yes.
09:54:33 >>> Good morning.
09:54:34 John Miller, irrigation, my office at 3331 west Main
09:54:40 Street in Tampa.
09:54:40 To touch on that last comment, I think there's a
09:54:44 consideration as far as we talked about temporary
09:54:47 C.O.s but we need to make sure the banking industry

09:54:51 is going to fund these.
09:54:53 I understand that few or not many banks will fund a
09:54:57 temporary C.O. so maybe that's an issue that the
09:55:00 attorneys or City Council can address that.
09:55:02 Another thing to touch on.
09:55:03 I heard when I first got here this morning there was a
09:55:05 discussion on reclaimed water becoming mandatory if
09:55:07 you have an available, and it should go through
09:55:11 hopefully quick.
09:55:16 I don't think we need to allow these residents another
09:55:18 year and a half, two years to hook up to reclaimed
09:55:20 water.
09:55:20 Reclaimed water is hooked up very fast now, I'm in
09:55:25 that business obviously, so it's starting to work.
09:55:27 It appears the conservation is working.
09:55:30 I believe according to the city Web site, we saved
09:55:34 over 100 million gallons of water in the last 30 days.
09:55:38 So it is working.
09:55:39 Again we are here to ask City Council to reconsider
09:55:42 the original recommendation from city staff which is
09:55:44 to allow us to water every other week.
09:55:48 We can limit the time frame that we water so that we

09:55:50 wouldn't have any waste in the water.
09:55:52 But we still would like city staff -- I mean City
09:55:55 Council to reconsider the city staff recommendations.
09:55:57 I appreciate your time.
09:55:58 Thank you.
09:55:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:56:00 Next speaker.
09:56:04 >>> My name is John Miragliotta, I own an irrigation
09:56:10 contract, and design company.
09:56:15 We actually have scheduled to meet Brad Baird and his
09:56:19 folks tomorrow to go over some conservation measures
09:56:21 that the Florida irrigation society has worked on to
09:56:24 Troy to help out the status that we have in the city
09:56:27 with the water problems.
09:56:30 Am I allowed to give handouts to you all?
09:56:34 >> Yes.
09:56:36 The clock is ticking so give them to him and he will
09:56:39 pass them out.
09:56:44 >> I know my time is short.
09:56:46 So I'll start into the handout real quick.
09:56:54 The key thing is, when council first brought up about
09:56:58 the water restrictions and implementing the no

09:57:02 watering at all, there was a two-week LAG period
09:57:07 before it actually went into effect.
09:57:09 And in that two-week lag period, we saved over 60
09:57:15 million gallons before the water restrictions came
09:57:20 into effect.
09:57:22 What occurred was with the media, with the City of
09:57:26 Tampa, and other folks making people aware, we not
09:57:30 only dropped our potable water use but we also dropped
09:57:35 the irrigation water use.
09:57:38 Naturally, since the restrictions went into effect we
09:57:40 saved 100 million gallons.
09:57:43 Folks are aware of conservation.
09:57:45 We just want to get the opportunity to try to keep
09:57:49 peoples landscaping possibly to survive through this
09:57:54 drought with the once every other week watering
09:57:56 schedule.
09:57:57 We would like to see -- I realize this isn't the time
09:57:59 but possibly two weeks to have someone bring a motion
09:58:01 to consider that.
09:58:04 Thank you very much.
09:58:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:58:06 Next speaker.

09:58:12 >>> My name is Kennedy Watson, west Main Street,
09:58:17 Carver City area.
09:58:20 I heard that there's been a setback on the senior
09:58:24 citizens building on Lois and Spruce, that section,
09:58:28 and also behind me on Main Street next to the -- we
09:58:36 went to motels so that was approved, also senior
09:58:39 citizens apartment which will be built.
09:58:41 I'm here on behalf of the developers, Mr. Smith.
09:58:45 We have been through this.
09:58:46 But don't set back what's already been approved.
09:58:49 This is -- now is the time to use the benefits of the
09:58:53 government's for us especially for these types of
09:58:58 things.
09:58:58 Remember this.
09:58:59 Remember this and remember good, as Mr. Miranda I've
09:59:03 heard him say.
09:59:04 You dance with the one that you brought to the dance.
09:59:10 Amen.
09:59:11 Because it smells of pork a little bit.
09:59:12 I'm not pointing my fingers or nothing else but we
09:59:15 need to consider what's been approved already.
09:59:17 Do not, please, let it be, those seniors, because I'm

09:59:22 waiting to move there.
09:59:30 >>> Good morning.
09:59:33 Darren Tierning, P.O. Box 3067 Wimauma, Florida.
09:59:40 Under item 76, to accept the guidelines of ordinance
09:59:44 of Hillsborough County regarding no solicitation on
09:59:46 the medians of the county. I was just looking at it,
09:59:50 and I respectfully ask the council to maybe talk about
09:59:56 having a workshop or a meeting or further discussion
09:59:58 on adding some kind of amendment, because as I read
10:00:06 this, this would prohibit all forms of solicitation
10:00:10 and distribution, and that would be like the firm out
10:00:15 there collecting when they do their thing or churches,
10:00:19 or newspapers, making a living on Sunday.
10:00:25 Maybe they can have a provision if they have proper
10:00:28 credentials or wear an orange vest or something like
10:00:31 that, where people would be visible, and the safety of
10:00:34 the people wouldn't be jeopardized, and that would go
10:00:39 a long way for the community.
10:00:43 Thank you.
10:00:55 >>> Pastor Frank Williams, Baptist church, and I just
10:01:01 want to say something before I get into my statement.
10:01:03 Then I want to read something to you all.

10:01:08 Mr. Scott say you are only going to allow me two
10:01:11 minutes.
10:01:11 If you allow everybody else three minutes, I have to
10:01:13 have my three minutes, too.
10:01:15 I want to give you a little history here.
10:01:18 I changed the pledge of allegiance, Christian prayer
10:01:21 pledge of allegiance.
10:01:22 Holy God our father, we pledge our hearts and love to
10:01:24 you in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord and savior,
10:01:29 under God with liberty and justice for all, faith hope
10:01:32 and charity, the greatest of these is charity.
10:01:36 I'm a preacher.
10:01:37 I recognize God everywhere I go.
10:01:40 Whether you want to hear me or whether you don't want
10:01:42 to hear me.
10:01:43 And this gets us in God we trust. In God we love in,
10:01:48 God we trust, in God we obey.
10:01:50 And spirit we need and spirit we have and spirit we
10:01:52 keep. In Jesus we believe, in Jesus we are free, in
10:01:56 Jesus we are saved.
10:01:58 Now this I wrote talking about the water shortage.
10:02:03 We have 430 units over there in Tampa, Central Park.

10:02:08 It's not there no more.
10:02:11 Where is all that water that they use, where is it
10:02:14 going to?
10:02:15 Why you all putting restriction on people about using
10:02:17 water when we got to pay for what we use?
10:02:20 You all sit there.
10:02:21 Now this is what I got for the City Commission.
10:02:26 City officials of Tampa, it is unjust, biased, racist,
10:02:30 liar, thievery, that includes the mayor, the City
10:02:32 Council, code enforcement, school board, county
10:02:35 commission, law enforcement, and the court of
10:02:38 injustice, all these people live off the tax, and yet
10:02:42 we have no representation.
10:02:43 God bless you.
10:02:47 >> God bless you too.
10:02:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:02:49 Okay. Council, item number 1.
10:02:57 It is my understanding there are a number of people
10:02:59 here to speak but this is not a public -- that's not a
10:03:03 public hearing on item number 1.
10:03:05 Are there -- is there anyone here that wishes to
10:03:09 request for reconsideration a legislative matter?

10:03:12 Anyone who wishes to ask council to reconsider any
10:03:15 legislative matter?
10:03:21 Item number 1.
10:03:36 Was there someone who wanted to speak on item number
10:03:38 1?
10:03:40 Okay.
10:03:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I had a question, Ms. Miller.
10:03:45 A couple of things.
10:03:48 Sometimes you and I talk on the phone and so if I
10:03:51 missed your call I apologize but I never got any
10:03:54 briefing on this.
10:03:54 I didn't know it was coming, which frankly is a little
10:03:59 surprising.
10:04:00 Then the other e-mail that I sent you yesterday was
10:04:05 the issue of extending permits.
10:04:09 You know, usually in a commercial setting, let's say
10:04:13 if a building is going up on Kennedy or downtown or
10:04:16 something like that, might not be a big deal.
10:04:18 But if somebody is building a house in the
10:04:20 neighborhood, and it's under construction for six
10:04:23 months and then under construction for a year and then
10:04:26 under construction for two years, it can look pretty

10:04:28 ragged for the rest of the folks on that block.
10:04:32 And so, therefore, I think this is a neighborhood
10:04:37 issue, and so the question I asked was, was this a
10:04:39 discussion that had come to T.H.A.N., the association
10:04:46 of neighborhoods?
10:04:47 So those are a couple of questions.
10:04:50 And my other comment, Mr. Chairman, just as long as I
10:04:53 have the floor, is in reading this ordinance, which
10:04:58 I'll let Mrs. Miller explain, extends folks times,
10:05:03 during these rough economic times it's appropriate to
10:05:06 give people a little more time to build their
10:05:08 buildings and that's all fine and good, but I will
10:05:10 favor that ordinance in concept, but I think if we are
10:05:13 doing it because we are all in tough economic times
10:05:16 let's all be optimistic enough and say we are going to
10:05:18 get out of these times in the next hopefully year or
10:05:21 two.
10:05:22 In light of that, I think we need to include a
10:05:26 provision of this at first reading today that would
10:05:34 sense this ordinance I would suggest two years from
10:05:36 now, and that way whatever council is here two years
10:05:39 from now should and could revisit this issue and see

10:05:42 if it's appropriate to continue on.
10:05:43 That's all I have to say.
10:05:44 Thank you, Ms. Miller.
10:05:45 >>CINDY MILLER: Director growth management development
10:05:48 services.
10:05:49 Let me give you a little bit of an introduction and I
10:05:51 will go back to Mr. Dingfelder's question.
10:05:55 We are seeking an amendment to the chapter 5 code so
10:06:00 that construction projects where permits everybody
10:06:03 issued would enable the permit holder to request one
10:06:06 additional six-month extension on top of the six
10:06:12 months already identified in the code.
10:06:13 It is not an automatic extension.
10:06:17 The property owner or contractor would need to come in
10:06:19 and request that extension.
10:06:23 And that would have to be in writing and demonstrate
10:06:27 cost and the site must be maintained in an appropriate
10:06:30 manner as required by code.
10:06:31 We do of course understand that a construction site is
10:06:33 not going to have a manicured lawn but we at least
10:06:36 have to make sure it is appropriately maintained as to
10:06:39 overgrowth and as to being secure so that the

10:06:41 neighborhood kids don't get in, a variety of other
10:06:44 situations.
10:06:44 But as our intention of the policy the construction
10:06:48 services will have its inspectors go out and look at a
10:06:51 site before an extension is granted and we will
10:06:55 monitor the site on a regular basis, and of course we
10:06:57 will always respond when there are complaints.
10:06:59 When it comes to plan review, we also are seeking that
10:07:03 as a -- if a plan has been approved already through
10:07:06 our construction services division that a one-year
10:07:09 extension also be allowed.
10:07:12 And I know that there's been some concerns raised from
10:07:14 that standpoint, if something is not under
10:07:17 construction why grant that additional time?
10:07:20 And I think the answer is our economic situation and
10:07:23 the credit crunch.
10:07:25 I guess crunch is not even the best word.
10:07:27 The credit crisis that has occurred when comes to
10:07:30 contractors, property owners, frankly almost everyone
10:07:34 in our country.
10:07:35 We keep saying it has not yet trickled down to Main
10:07:38 Street, the incentives that have been developed from

10:07:41 the federal level, and we believe that because so many
10:07:43 folks have been caught in this financial situation
10:07:47 where they cannot get financing, we believe that
10:07:50 that's an appropriate response to give them some more
10:07:52 time to be able to initiate construction.
10:07:54 So that's a little snapshot of why we are here today.
10:07:58 When it comes to -- let me work backwards.
10:08:01 Councilman Dingfelder, excellent point on the sunset,
10:08:06 we definitely concur.
10:08:08 We referred your question to Ms. Cole and she at the
10:08:11 end can identify some proposed wording that can be
10:08:13 added today, if we have first reading and be able to
10:08:17 adopt it at a second reading.
10:08:20 I did get in contact with Mr. Wolford Johnson, and I
10:08:23 did a sure him today that I would put his questions on
10:08:26 the record.
10:08:27 He did refer it to his own committee and I must thank
10:08:31 Mr. Johnson because he was extremely responsive, and
10:08:33 you -- he was very responsive and was communicating
10:08:42 indicating long after I was asleep last night with an
10:08:45 e-mail back.
10:08:45 Let me outline his questions and then I will probably

10:08:48 turn it over to Mr. Barrios so he can more
10:08:50 specifically address those.
10:08:51 One question is: If a builder does not have money to
10:08:54 complete a project will they have the funds to
10:08:55 maintain it?
10:08:57 Will the proposed amendment to the code have a sunset
10:09:01 clause?
10:09:01 Again which we have already addressed.
10:09:05 What you will have is projects that may not be up to
10:09:08 the current code when built.
10:09:09 So the scenario concerns me -- this is Mr. Johnson --
10:09:14 that if a builder submits for plan approval and
10:09:16 receives it, six months later the city changes its
10:09:19 code, in this case sign code he alluded to, reducing
10:09:22 the allowed signage, how will they be able to build?
10:09:27 Because they would be building under old codes rather
10:09:29 than new codes.
10:09:31 Are the extensions automatic, meek they ask for them
10:09:34 and get there are, or do they have to meet some kind
10:09:36 of criteria?
10:09:38 I'll let Mr. Barrios go through that in greater
10:09:41 detail.

10:09:42 And then will also if the owner has not been keeping
10:09:46 up with the site will the city go out and inspect
10:09:48 before the extension is granted?
10:09:50 Will the fee be enough to cover the cost of site
10:09:52 inspection, the paperwork processing?
10:09:54 And if you don't mind I would like to turn it over to
10:09:57 Mr. Barrios to address those specific questions.
10:09:59 Again I do want to thank Mr. Johnson as well as the
10:10:03 T.H.A.N. zoning committee for bringing these questions
10:10:05 to us.
10:10:10 >>> Thank you, Cindy.
10:10:11 Good morning, Mr. Chairman, council, Jeff Barrios,
10:10:16 manager of construction services to address
10:10:17 specifically the point of, is an extension automatic?
10:10:20 In other words, do you simply give one by virtue of
10:10:23 the fact of this amendment?
10:10:25 The answer to that question is absolutely not.
10:10:28 There is an application process.
10:10:29 There is a fee associated with the cost of providing
10:10:32 that review, and that inspection out in the field, and
10:10:36 our staff will be in the field, if this is a project
10:10:41 under construction, to review specifically the site

10:10:43 conditions.
10:10:44 One other item I would like to point out is because,
10:10:47 if you have been granted an extension of a permit
10:10:50 doesn't mean necessarily that that will run its entire
10:10:53 term.
10:10:53 If we have a job site where the contractor, developer,
10:10:57 owner, is not maintaining the site, that site is
10:11:01 subject to being cited by code, and if we do not get
10:11:04 any cooperation or any assistance in resolving any
10:11:08 issues out on the job site, we can seek other remedial
10:11:12 action by virtue of our Code Enforcement Board, or the
10:11:17 contractor's licensing board to try to make sure that
10:11:22 compliance is actually occurring.
10:11:23 I think what Mr. Dingfelder is pointing out is of
10:11:26 great concern to all of us, even today under our
10:11:29 current law, where we grant extensions on projects
10:11:32 currently.
10:11:34 We are always very concerned about the condition of
10:11:35 the site, particularly are we leaving any unsafe
10:11:39 condition, open structures, where this may not only
10:11:42 just become a nuisance to the neighborhood but may
10:11:45 become actual safety consideration for the

10:11:47 neighborhood folks.
10:11:49 So that is something we take very, very seriously.
10:11:52 This request to grant an additional six-month
10:11:56 extension will be scrutinized and taken care of and in
10:12:01 the same fashion.
10:12:02 The other question I would like to address was the
10:12:04 concern about if we did grant up to one year extension
10:12:08 on a plan approval, does that mean that we may be out
10:12:11 of sync with certain codes, or certain new codes that
10:12:14 might come into effect?
10:12:16 First of all, let me a sure council that what we are
10:12:18 talking about here is granting plan approval
10:12:21 extensions within the typical state building code
10:12:25 cycle three years.
10:12:26 And I would submit to council that any given project
10:12:30 throughout the duration of the project can at any time
10:12:33 be out of sync with anything that might be passed by
10:12:37 virtue of a local ordinance.
10:12:39 And Mr. Wolford pointed out specifically sign codes
10:12:43 that have just recently changed.
10:12:46 The reality is that some of our construction projects
10:12:48 take extensive amount of time to build.

10:12:51 Some of the larger commercial projects, for example.
10:12:53 And during the course of a project, our local
10:12:56 ordinances could change.
10:12:58 Our scenario here today is really no different than
10:13:01 what we currently live with today.
10:13:03 Again, if a request for an extension to a plan
10:13:07 approval is made, we will review that application
10:13:11 compared to our current condition of code and make a
10:13:15 judgment decision relative to complies.
10:13:19 So again I wanted to reassure council that there is a
10:13:21 process in place, one that we take very, very
10:13:24 seriously, and our goal and hope is that by providing
10:13:27 an additional amount of time, reasonable amount of
10:13:29 time, that we can hopefully help projects get
10:13:33 completed, and that's what our ultimate goal is.
10:13:37 Thank you.
10:13:37 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: May I ask Mr. Barrios?
10:13:42 Sir, if you grant a one-year permit, an extension,
10:13:46 meanwhile, the code changes, okay?
10:13:50 Are you going to make that contractor adhere to the
10:13:52 new part of the code?
10:13:55 Or will the old existing application be granted as it

10:13:59 is?
10:14:00 >>> Mr. Caetano, if a permit has been issued, the code
10:14:04 in effect at the time the code is issued prevails on
10:14:07 that particular project.
10:14:09 If an extension is granted today under the current
10:14:11 code, again, those vested rights, those provisions in
10:14:15 the code at the time of approval still prevail.
10:14:18 What we have requested today won't change.
10:14:20 That's a legal precedence set in the building codes.
10:14:24 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you.
10:14:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ms. Julia Cole, do you have the
10:14:28 language for the sunset provision?
10:14:29 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
10:14:31 What I would request City Council to do if that is
10:14:35 something they want to implement into the ordinance
10:14:37 that when they move this on first reading they ask
10:14:39 that change be made between first and second reading,
10:14:42 I'll go ahead and make the change between IRS first
10:14:46 and second reading and to identify the time frame in
10:14:48 terms of when the start date and end date is.
10:14:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
10:14:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

10:14:54 I want to thank the building industry for bringing
10:14:57 this to the cities attention, as well as the T.H.A.N.
10:15:02 for responding quickly with their comments and
10:15:03 questions.
10:15:05 I'm comfortable with the ordinance as amend.
10:15:11 I'll read: An ordinance for the city of Tampa,
10:15:13 Florida making revisions to the city Tampa code of
10:15:16 ordinances chapter 5, building code, amending section
10:15:19 5-105.3.2, time limitation of application, amending
10:15:25 section 35-105.4, conditions of the permit, repealing
10:15:29 all ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict
10:15:32 therewith, providing for severability, providing an
10:15:33 effective date.
10:15:34 And including an amendment between first and second
10:15:37 reading that would sunset this provision in two years.
10:15:42 And I'll request that legal draft that provision.
10:15:47 >>JULIA COLE: Two years from the effective date?
10:15:52 >> Two years from the effective date.
10:15:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to thank the department for
10:15:55 bringing this up to us today and doing what is best
10:15:57 for the area.
10:15:58 When you look around, and I certainly don't want to

10:16:01 see any more defaults or foreclosures, and I think
10:16:05 this helps the industry and the institutions putting
10:16:08 the money up to consider that it is going to be
10:16:11 completed, it is going to be done well, and within the
10:16:13 regulations of law.
10:16:17 And everything has a sunset, including council members
10:16:19 who have four years, so I am never against a sunset.
10:16:22 Thank you.
10:16:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thanks again.
10:16:25 I think what this shows, though, is government joining
10:16:28 together with partners, and with people in the
10:16:31 business community to recognize the issue of the
10:16:34 economic downturn that we are in, or the crisis and
10:16:37 try to find a way how to help developers and others
10:16:41 through this crisis.
10:16:42 So I think it's a very good ordinance and gesture.
10:16:45 Okay.
10:16:47 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I discussed with
10:16:48 Mr. Barrios, because we had an employee up here this
10:16:52 morning, talking about construction services.
10:16:56 And I think what they are looking at is the
10:16:59 possibility of consolidating inspectors.

10:17:02 In other words, let's say an inspector has to go out
10:17:05 today to inspect a building.
10:17:07 It could be five different inspectors, five different
10:17:11 automobiles, and all the man hours going out, and what
10:17:15 they want to do is have an inspector to be multitasked
10:17:19 where he can inspect maybe four different categories
10:17:22 or three different categories, which I think is a
10:17:25 smart thing.
10:17:25 I know I recently went down there, and the parking lot
10:17:28 was empty.
10:17:29 And I couldn't believe it.
10:17:30 I had a space right at the front door.
10:17:34 So I asked the person that I was with, I says, why is
10:17:36 this happening?
10:17:37 He says, well, there's no permits being issued I also
10:17:41 asked Mr. Barrios, what is the difference in the
10:17:44 amount of money that has come in with the new fees
10:17:46 that we started in January?
10:17:49 And he said he would have a report in 18 months.
10:17:52 I would like to see something sooner.
10:17:55 , if possible.
10:17:56 In other words, tell me in the last six months, or the

10:18:01 last four months, what have the fees been and what
10:18:04 were they in the past and how much more money did we
10:18:06 generate?
10:18:07 Because we might be shooting ourselves in the foot
10:18:09 with that.
10:18:11 So if I can get that sooner.
10:18:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:18:14 There's a motion.
10:18:15 Let me carry the motion, if you don't mind.
10:18:18 Let me carry the motion.
10:18:20 Moved by councilman Dingfelder, seconded by councilman
10:18:22 Miranda.
10:18:23 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:18:25 Opposes?
10:18:25 Okay.
10:18:26 >>CINDY MILLER: From the standpoint of reporting back,
10:18:28 Mr. Chairman, if we could, I believe, we would want to
10:18:31 get the month of March fully closed from an accounting
10:18:34 standpoint.
10:18:35 And so it would still be a few weeks before we would
10:18:38 be able to do that.
10:18:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

10:18:41 >>THE CLERK: Second reading and adoption on the
10:18:43 ordinance would be held on May 7th at 9:30 in the
10:18:46 morning.
10:18:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:18:49 Item 2.
10:18:52 Councilman.
10:18:55 Go ahead..
10:18:55 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Assistant city attorney.
10:18:59 The council directed that the city code that regulated
10:19:05 or governed the public Nuisance Abatement Board be
10:19:08 changed to designate that the Code Enforcement Board
10:19:12 would act as the public Nuisance Abatement Board.
10:19:16 And when I was going through and making those changes
10:19:18 I also took that opportunity to make our current code
10:19:23 a bit more robust, as it is currently it is just one
10:19:27 section long and it's in this section entitled
10:19:31 "drugs."
10:19:33 What this new ordinance is doing is moving it out --
10:19:35 moving the code that's governing it into its own
10:19:40 article called public Nuisance Abatement Board, and
10:19:45 I've added section that is would govern the initiation
10:19:47 of a complaint, having the hearings, what the

10:19:51 penalties are, enforcing orders, and I use the
10:19:55 St. Petersburg code that has a working public Nuisance
10:19:57 Abatement Board as a guide.
10:20:01 And these are some comprehensive changes.
10:20:03 But it does also do what you directed which was to
10:20:05 direct the Code Enforcement Board be the public
10:20:08 Nuisance Abatement Board.
10:20:10 It's there for first reading.
10:20:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?
10:20:13 Councilman Miranda, do you want to read it?
10:20:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move an ordinance for first
10:20:17 reading, an ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida
10:20:19 making comprehensive revisions to City of Tampa code
10:20:22 of ordinances chapter 14, offenses, repealing section
10:20:26 14-63, public Nuisance Abatement Board in its
10:20:29 entirety, creating article VII, section 14-282 through
10:20:34 14-290, reserved, creating article VIII, public
10:20:41 Nuisance Abatement Board, providing for repeal of all
10:20:44 ordinances in conflict, providing for severability,
10:20:47 providing an effective date.
10:20:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved by councilman Miranda, seconded
10:20:50 by councilman Dingfelder.

10:20:51 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being
10:20:54 absent.
10:20:55 Second reading and adoption will be on May 7th at
10:20:58 9:30.
10:21:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 3.
10:21:10 >> This is an ordinance to a amend the parking code to
10:21:13 allow for the placement of self-service meters, and
10:21:20 pay stations.
10:21:21 My understanding is that while this was prepared, the
10:21:27 parking department will be presenting this today and
10:21:29 it's a fairly straightforward change.
10:21:32 Councilman Dingfelder, yesterday, raised a drafting
10:21:37 concern, and related to basically the pay stations
10:21:44 receipts.
10:21:44 We are including receipts, not to fraudulently alter,
10:21:50 duplicate, and based on councilman's Dingfelder's
10:21:53 comment I would suggest one change we can make between
10:21:55 first and second reading that will clarify that.
10:21:58 On page 4, line 8, insert the word fraudulently to
10:22:03 these types of activities so it's clear that you
10:22:05 cannot alter them to defraud the city but you can
10:22:08 still copy things for your own tax purposes or other

10:22:11 needs.
10:22:11 So that will be the only change that we would
10:22:13 recommend at this time.
10:22:14 And ask that you support it.
10:22:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
10:22:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to make sure that in
10:22:20 these regulations that you ask to look at and review
10:22:24 and change that there is no parking fee increase.
10:22:26 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I'm sorry, with the door open I
10:22:29 couldn't hear you, councilman.
10:22:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There's no additional revenues and
10:22:33 parking increase for revenues, cost increase to the
10:22:37 persons parking.
10:22:39 >> No, I don't believe so.
10:22:42 Certainly the code doesn't change any rates.
10:22:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Other questions?
10:22:47 Councilman Miller?
10:22:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Ordinance for first reading.
10:22:51 An ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida amending
10:22:52 City of Tampa code chapter 15, parking, article II,
10:22:57 division I, general parking regulations, section
10:23:00 15-41, said amendment being necessary to provide for

10:23:03 additional regulations and prohibitions for parking
10:23:08 vehicles at single parking spaces at pay stations in
10:23:11 city lots, garages, public streets and other property,
10:23:15 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
10:23:19 providing an effective date.
10:23:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll second that with the amendment
10:23:25 that Mr. Fletcher included.
10:23:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Coming back for second reading.
10:23:32 Moved and seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
10:23:34 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:23:36 Opposes?
10:23:36 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being
10:23:38 absent.
10:23:38 Second reading and adoption will be held on May
10:23:40 7th at 9:30.
10:23:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:23:43 Item 4.
10:23:45 Item 4.
10:23:51 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Assistant city attorney.
10:23:55 Item 4 is a proposed amendment, proposed ordinance
10:23:57 that would amend section chapter 23.35, civil citation
10:24:08 ordinance, the first is definition of repeat violation

10:24:11 and would include the situation where a person who was
10:24:13 issued a citation but neither paid for the citation
10:24:16 nor went to court and challenged it but rather just
10:24:19 did nothing and it defaulted, that it kind of includes
10:24:22 those, if that occurs, that too would become a repeat
10:24:25 violation once that occurred.
10:24:36 The second change is into the different penalty
10:24:40 classes, and just brief summary under class 1,
10:24:45 violations, what's been added is rental certificates
10:24:48 and rental inspections.
10:24:50 Then under class 3, there's sections from chapter 22
10:24:54 regarding streets and sidewalks.
10:24:56 Under class 4, they have added sections from chapter
10:25:01 22, chapter 25, transportation, and chapter 27,
10:25:07 zoning.
10:25:09 And then like demolition by neglect has been added.
10:25:13 The selling of alcohol, requiring a permit, and the
10:25:19 special event parking.
10:25:25 And also the last provision that went in, the last
10:25:30 change is that there's a provision in the class 1
10:25:33 violations which puts in where any code that's -- any
10:25:38 code section that's not specifically identified that

10:25:41 could be enforced as a class 1 which is the lowest
10:25:44 class violation.
10:25:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions by council?
10:25:59 Councilwoman Mulhern, read the ordinance, please.
10:26:01 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented
10:26:04 for first reading consideration, an ordinance of the
10:26:06 city of Tampa, Florida, amending the definition of
10:26:09 repeat violations, amending section 23.5-5, schedule
10:26:13 of violations and penalties, to add Tampa city code
10:26:16 sections from chapters 19, 22, 25 and 27 to allow
10:26:21 enforcement of those sections by the civil citation
10:26:24 process, to designate as a class I violation any
10:26:28 violation of the Tampa city code not already set forth
10:26:32 in the schedule of fines and penalties, providing for
10:26:35 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing for
10:26:37 severability, providing an effective date.
10:26:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A second?
10:26:42 Seconded by Councilwoman Miller.
10:26:44 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:26:46 Opposes?
10:26:47 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder being
10:26:48 absent at vote, Saul-Sena being absent, second reading

10:26:52 and adoption will be held on May 7th, 2009 at
10:26:55 9:30.
10:26:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to comment that in
10:26:59 these cases most of these individuals live in the
10:27:02 designated area, and I have some film that I have
10:27:09 taken myself of areas that I have been to, and I think
10:27:11 in some cases we overly applied the rule, and I'll
10:27:17 show anybody who wants to see these films that I have
10:27:19 taken with my camera that I never should have got for
10:27:22 Christmas because all I do is take photos of things
10:27:24 that I think are wrong that the city is doing.
10:27:26 But I voted for it.
10:27:27 Let's go.
10:27:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item number 5.
10:27:38 >>JULIE KABOURGERIS: Legal department.
10:27:39 This is a request for encroachment existing on
10:27:44 proposed portions of public rights-of-way, Franklin
10:27:47 Street, Channelside Drive, and Florida Avenue.
10:27:51 I believe the petitioner is here to answer any
10:27:53 questions.
10:27:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, any questions?
10:28:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The only question I have, I was

10:28:03 just handed some documents by attorney Kirk.
10:28:08 Is this what we are discussing now about information
10:28:09 she got from Pinellas County?
10:28:11 >> No.
10:28:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What we are talking now is a total
10:28:20 prohibition on rights-of-way?
10:28:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
10:28:25 >>CHAIRMAN: No.
10:28:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This here is on the right-of-way.
10:28:28 Mr. Fletcher is going to comment later on about that.
10:28:30 The one for us has to do with the hotel encroachment
10:28:33 on Franklin Street on channel street.
10:28:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right, no problem.
10:28:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What's the name of that hotel?
10:28:39 Embassy suites.
10:28:40 >> Downtown.
10:28:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
10:28:46 Councilman Caetano, do you want to read ordinance
10:28:48 number 5?
10:28:49 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance being presented for
10:28:51 first reading consideration.
10:28:52 An ordinance authorizing certain existing and proposed

10:28:55 encroachments exiting architectural features and
10:28:58 building encroachments, and proposed balcony, building
10:29:01 and roof overhangs, over portions of the public
10:29:05 rights-of-way known as Franklin Street, Channelside
10:29:07 Drive and Florida Avenue, in the City of Tampa,
10:29:10 Hillsborough County, as more particularly described
10:29:13 herein, subject to certain terms, covenants,
10:29:15 conditions and agreements as more particularly
10:29:17 described herein, providing an effective date.
10:29:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:29:24 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:29:26 Opposes?
10:29:27 >>THE CLERK: Mr. Chairman, that is the ordinance being
10:29:32 substituted that was presented earlier.
10:29:34 Motion carried with Dingfelder being absent, Saul-Sena
10:29:37 being absent, and second reading and adoption will be
10:29:40 held on May 7th, 2009 at 9:30.
10:29:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:29:46 We'll take up the committee reports, and then
10:29:50 following that we'll go to staff reports and pulled
10:29:54 items.
10:29:54 Okay?

10:29:54 So Public Safety Committee.
10:29:55 Councilman Gwen Miller.
10:29:57 >>GWEN MILLER: I move items 6 through 11.
10:30:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:30:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:30:05 Opposes?
10:30:05 Okay.
10:30:06 Parks, recreation Mary Mulhern.
10:30:13 >>MARY MULHERN: I move number 12 through 17.
10:30:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:30:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:30:20 Opposes?
10:30:20 Public Works Committee, councilman Charlie Miranda.
10:30:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move items 18 through 29,
10:30:26 withholding items item 26.
10:30:29 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
10:30:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye of
10:30:35 the opposes?
10:30:37 Okay.
10:30:38 Finance Committee, Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:30:40 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:30:43 I'm sorry, but I would like to just remove item 31 for

10:30:48 a separate vote, in deference to one of the employees
10:30:52 who spoke.
10:30:55 But I'll move items 30, 32, 33, 34 and 35.
10:31:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:31:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
10:31:06 Opposes?
10:31:08 Item 31.
10:31:16 >>MARY MULHERN: I was thinking of asking this to be
10:31:18 continued for public hearing but I don't think that's
10:31:19 appropriate.
10:31:20 I think I will just ask to vote on that now.
10:31:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, since we are talking
10:31:25 here, and regarding ratification of contracts, it
10:31:32 seems to me that I remember when we met with the
10:31:35 administration just last week that we were quoted
10:31:40 saying we were going to have a $352 million shortfall
10:31:43 in 2010 budget, and hopefully there was some agreement
10:31:46 between the collective bargaining units of the city
10:31:49 and administration for a reduction of salaries for
10:31:52 that year, and a matter of about $12 million.
10:31:57 So my question really to all of us is, where is the
10:32:01 difference coming from of 40 million?

10:32:03 There was a list of six or seven items, and I
10:32:06 apologize for not having that with me.
10:32:08 But there were things like the CIP project, capital
10:32:13 improvement projects and things of that nature, and
10:32:16 I'm posing that now because I don't know where the 40
10:32:20 million is coming from.
10:32:21 And if I could do that, I would certainly feel much
10:32:26 more comfortable voting for this, ratifying this.
10:32:29 But I've made statements in the past that I hope never
10:32:34 come true, but I think they are going to come true,
10:32:36 and publicly, the reality, I have said that the
10:32:40 government of yesterday will never be the government
10:32:42 of tomorrow.
10:32:44 I mean that.
10:32:45 And I have said show me a corporation that's never had
10:32:49 a furlough or layoffs, and I'll show you a corporation
10:32:52 that's no longer in business.
10:32:54 In today's marketplace, there's a lot of references
10:32:57 going on, that the legislature is looking at reduction
10:33:01 in pay of employees anywhere from when you work and
10:33:06 make 30,000 up to 80, a certain percent over 80, a
10:33:10 larger percent, and I don't know where the funds are

10:33:13 coming from to meet the shortfall of 52 million.
10:33:17 I bring this up.
10:33:19 I understand where the 12 million is coming from.
10:33:23 The difference I do not.
10:33:24 I bring that up because I certainly don't want to see
10:33:28 any lesser improvements at our capital improvement
10:33:34 projects and service to this community.
10:33:35 I think the taxpayers deserve that.
10:33:37 On the other hand, I understand the deficit, the
10:33:41 problem, and that we don't borrow money.
10:33:47 We must meet our payroll, and our needs for this city
10:33:51 on a budget that's balanced.
10:33:52 We don't print money here.
10:33:54 So what I'm saying is, I would like to find out where
10:33:59 this money is coming from to meet the shortfalls of
10:34:02 the $52 million.
10:34:07 >>MARY MULHERN: I mean, we could ask for a report on
10:34:09 this at our next, you know, continue this, and ask for
10:34:13 answers to that.
10:34:14 And my concern is that we have a long-time employee, a
10:34:22 union member talking about a climate of fear, and --
10:34:31 Well, let me ask legal here.

10:34:34 Listen, folks, we have to stick when it comes to the
10:34:37 charter.
10:34:38 I need to understand what is our role here?
10:34:40 Because it's my understanding this has already been
10:34:42 ratified by the union, and this is moved forward by
10:34:46 recommendation of the administration.
10:34:47 So I know you can vote it up or down, but have we had
10:34:52 any requests from the union leadership to not vote on
10:34:55 this, to withdraw this?
10:34:58 Have we had a request from the mayor not to move this
10:35:00 item forward?
10:35:01 And I think that becomes the issue.
10:35:04 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Not that I'm aware of.
10:35:07 As you indicated it's been approved by the
10:35:08 administration, it's been ratified by the union, it's
10:35:12 here for you all today to take final action.
10:35:14 You obviously can take positive action or negative
10:35:18 action on it.
10:35:20 And certainly you can continue it to a future date.
10:35:23 But there's not been any request to take any different
10:35:27 action than approval by either the union leadership or
10:35:29 the administration.

10:35:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We could vote it up or down but the
10:35:33 issue becomes if council takes no action, what leeway,
10:35:37 how much time do we have before this board comes back
10:35:42 is not valid, is null and invalid?
10:35:46 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I don't know the answer to that
10:35:48 off the top of my head.
10:35:49 The retroactive payments will increase.
10:35:51 That's one of the things that's in here.
10:35:53 There's some retroactive --
10:35:56 Resolve the language in the 2.35% increase and all the
10:35:59 general --
10:36:02 >> I'm not I'm not aware of anything on the face of
10:36:04 the document.
10:36:05 I would have to go and check on collective bargaining
10:36:08 to see what the time lines are.
10:36:10 I'm not familiar off the top of my head.
10:36:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think the other question raised by
10:36:13 councilman Miranda we nobody about the 12 million and
10:36:16 I was assuming at some points that administration was
10:36:18 going to provide for us all the different cuts.
10:36:24 I got a call about some cuts coming from the
10:36:28 nonprofit.

10:36:29 So we do know based -- by reading the paper, but there
10:36:36 was an article referenced to that.
10:36:39 So you are requesting now more information that --
10:36:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not saying we should hold this
10:36:46 up.
10:36:47 What I'm saying, I would like the information to be
10:36:49 given, the distribution of the difference of $40
10:36:52 million.
10:36:54 I don't think we got an explanation to this day.
10:36:56 I understand fear.
10:37:01 But fear is something that you have to think of as
10:37:05 yourself that you can overcome.
10:37:06 You have to be a strong individual in today's
10:37:11 marketplace and in today's world, that you have the
10:37:14 capabilities to do what you have to do to continue
10:37:17 your own life-style.
10:37:21 It's not appropriate for me to say I'm going to hold
10:37:24 something up because of fear.
10:37:27 In my opinion.
10:37:28 But I'm not saying that there is not fear.
10:37:30 There's fear all over this country.
10:37:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yeah.

10:37:33 >> There's fear of terrorism, fear of loss of jobs,
10:37:36 fear of foreclosure, fears of can't make the car
10:37:39 payment.
10:37:39 There's so much fear going on, but throws also an
10:37:43 optimistic view that America has always stood with its
10:37:45 working class people, and has always produced and
10:37:50 outproduced any other country in the world.
10:37:52 So those things being said, I'm not objecting to
10:37:55 ratifying this.
10:37:56 It's been confirmed by both parties.
10:37:58 What I'm looking at is saying that in future budgets,
10:38:03 it's not going to be about fear.
10:38:06 So you have to have the revenues to create the
10:38:10 opportunity to do something better for the city.
10:38:12 And without those revenues, you are going to have
10:38:15 shortfalls.
10:38:16 When you have shortfalls, something has got to happen.
10:38:18 Either you stop as far as capital improvement projects
10:38:23 and other things that are needed, and I hope that
10:38:26 never happens.
10:38:27 That's what I'm saying.
10:38:29 The public deserves to have pot holes fixed, they

10:38:32 deserve to have lines fixed, they deserve to have
10:38:35 adequate police and fire protection.
10:38:38 They deserve all these things.
10:38:39 And this is what I'm saying.
10:38:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
10:38:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was just going to agree,
10:38:46 Mr. Chairman, that this particular union negotiation
10:38:51 has been going on for a long time.
10:38:55 First the union turned it down.
10:38:56 And it changed.
10:38:58 It went back to administration.
10:39:00 Then it went back to the union for a second vote.
10:39:03 Now at least the administration and union are on the
10:39:05 same page, and I think that we need to seize the
10:39:08 moment, and move forward and approve it.
10:39:11 And I respect Ben greatly.
10:39:14 I think he brings up some great points.
10:39:16 But I don't think these are points that can be raised
10:39:18 on item 31.
10:39:19 >>MARY MULHERN: I was trying to get a census if anyone
10:39:25 wanted to discuss it further, if we could set just
10:39:28 vote.

10:39:28 So it's fine to vote on it.
10:39:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You have to move it.
10:39:31 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, I move it.
10:39:33 I just want to say a couple other things.
10:39:35 No, I'm not going to move it.
10:39:36 Sorry.
10:39:37 Someone else can move the motion.
10:39:38 But I just wanted to say at our budget meeting with
10:39:44 the mayor, she said that they were not going to be any
10:39:49 layoffs.
10:39:50 And I think that there's a sense at least with me, and
10:39:54 I think some of my colleagues, that would be better to
10:39:57 look at -- it would be better to look at furloughs,
10:40:01 and possible salary cuts as opposed to laying people
10:40:05 off.
10:40:06 So I just have to say that.
10:40:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I understand that.
10:40:12 But that's not the issue on the agenda.
10:40:14 The issue on the agenda is the contract.
10:40:16 So councilman, you are moving it?
10:40:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move it.
10:40:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?

10:40:23 There's no second?
10:40:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No second to move the union
10:40:27 contract?
10:40:28 >>CHAIRMAN: There's move second.
10:40:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Miller.
10:40:33 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:40:36 Opposes?
10:40:37 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern voting no and
10:40:40 Saul-Sena being absent.
10:40:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Building and zoning.
10:40:45 Councilman Joseph Caetano.
10:40:52 Cat cats I would like to move items 36 through 51.
10:40:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
10:41:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Did you already have that
10:41:04 discussion on 49 and 50?
10:41:07 >> We pulled those.
10:41:08 We bring them back under staff reports.
10:41:10 49 and 50.
10:41:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I wanted to make sure the motion
10:41:15 was clear on that.
10:41:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
10:41:16 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

10:41:18 Opposes?
10:41:19 Okay.
10:41:21 Councilman Dingfelder, transportation committee.
10:41:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move items 52 through 60.
10:41:29 >> Second.
10:41:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seth items set for public hearing?
10:41:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Move items 61 and 62.
10:41:37 >> Second.
10:41:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:41:41 Opposes?
10:41:42 Okay.
10:41:43 We move to the staff report and pull items -- pulled
10:41:47 items at this time.
10:41:57 >>CINDY MILLER: Director of growth management
10:42:00 development services.
10:42:01 Items number 49 and 50.
10:42:04 Basically, although they look like new documents, they
10:42:07 are basically amending documents for portions of two
10:42:17 projects called Encore for the Central Park Village
10:42:20 called the tempo and the ELLA.
10:42:22 Let me give you a little bit of context of what you
10:42:24 approved last year when it came to the financial

10:42:26 commitments that were executed in 2008.
10:42:30 This is a different kind of financial commitment than
10:42:32 what you have seen before in Tampa and what you have
10:42:34 seen probably in other jurisdictions.
10:42:37 And I'll let you know the reasoning as to why we got
10:42:40 to that point.
10:42:42 These memorandum of understanding of financial
10:42:45 commitments are multi-year commitments.
10:42:47 The Central Park Village redevelopment is one of the
10:42:50 largest projects ever contemplated with our city for
10:42:53 affordable housing or any other types of housing and
10:42:56 mixed use.
10:42:59 What we were looking at was not only the application
10:43:01 for the state credits, but what we wanted to be able
10:43:04 to put in place is when we go to the federal
10:43:07 government, whether it was lobbying for earmarks which
10:43:10 may or may not be seen again, or whether we are
10:43:15 talking to HUD, or whether the Housing Authority was
10:43:18 talking from the standpoint of their funding.
10:43:20 We wanted to be able to make sure that we could say
10:43:24 over a couple of-year term that the City of Tampa
10:43:28 makes a commitment to this project.

10:43:31 The way we had formatted the financial commitments for
10:43:34 state tax credits prior to that, when they basically
10:43:39 expired after a few months, we thought it wags
10:43:41 important to keep the commitment here.
10:43:43 And I'll give you one example of where it did come
10:43:46 forth and was able to be utilized that way.
10:43:49 When we were all asked a few months ago under the new
10:43:51 administration of Washington, Obama administration,
10:43:54 what are the stimulus funds you want to see?
10:43:56 The city could partner with the Housing Authority and
10:43:59 Bank of America to be able to say, here is the
10:44:02 stimulus money we would like to see allocated toe this
10:44:05 project.
10:44:06 When the state credits come and go even this year, we
10:44:10 are going to be able to say we have a commitment to
10:44:12 this project, and we think that is a very important
10:44:15 thing to be able to say.
10:44:16 Does it utilize our multifamily funding over a period
10:44:20 of years?
10:44:21 Yes, it does.
10:44:22 So we believe this project is that important, that we
10:44:26 need to be able to do that.

10:44:27 I know that there are a number of applicants.
10:44:29 Mr. Smith and cross land are not the only ones that
10:44:34 have come to me asking whether there's funding
10:44:36 available but we do believe this project is very
10:44:38 important.
10:44:38 We also think that it's important because there was a
10:44:42 commitment made to the residents of Central Park, when
10:44:45 they moved to other locations and where it was torn
10:44:48 down.
10:44:48 The commitment was made that they would have an
10:44:50 opportunity to come back.
10:44:52 And I think it's important that we as the
10:44:53 administration and you as City Council be able to
10:44:56 still stand firm and be able to say, that is our
10:44:58 commitment, that this is an important project, that we
10:45:01 can be able to say to those former residents that they
10:45:04 can be residents again at the newly redeveloped areas.
10:45:08 When it comes to what we are doing today, as I
10:45:12 mentioned there are already financial commitments and
10:45:14 memorandum of understanding already in place for these
10:45:16 two buildings.
10:45:18 What we are doing is basically tweaking the funding.

10:45:21 I think you all know that the state has been cutting
10:45:23 SHIP funds.
10:45:25 One of these particular buildings had all SHIP money
10:45:28 allocated to it.
10:45:29 We don't know how much money will be coming from the
10:45:31 state.
10:45:32 We know we have already seen executes cuts.
10:45:34 We may see cuts in the future from the state. What
10:45:36 this is doing is allowing some federal funds to go to
10:45:38 that. And that is the ELLA specifically, because that
10:45:42 is the senior housing.
10:45:43 We originally felt we would use only SHIP but this
10:45:47 authorizes us to use both home and SHIP.
10:45:50 When it comes to the dates, this will extend that
10:45:52 there is basically a three-year commitment if they
10:45:55 start the project this year.
10:45:57 That's Bank of America and their partnership with the
10:45:59 Housing Authority.
10:45:59 If they do not, these financial commitments will
10:46:02 expire December 31st, 2009.
10:46:05 And we can be back before you at a later date as to
10:46:08 how we expect to use our multifamily funding in the

10:46:12 future.
10:46:12 So I do want you to know that from the standpoint of
10:46:15 we do believe this is a critical project for our city,
10:46:18 that's why we made a multi-year funding commitment
10:46:21 last year, why we want to make these amendments this
10:46:23 year, so that they can go forward with tax credits, so
10:46:27 we can go forward to apply for other types of funding,
10:46:31 hopefully through the federal government, or possibly
10:46:33 through the state from other sources, and so that is
10:46:36 why we are looking at it.
10:46:39 Council member Mulhern, you asked about the project at
10:46:42 Lois and Spruce, to have that come before you.
10:46:46 They have come before you for zoning, for a PD.
10:46:48 But this was not a project at the time that they
10:46:52 approached us for financing, and that has not been
10:46:55 before you.
10:46:55 So there has been no financing mechanism that wove
10:46:58 come to for this particular project.
10:46:59 In the future, as I said, depending on what occurs
10:47:02 this year with Central Park Village, I'll be back
10:47:05 before you to come up with a recommendation of how we
10:47:07 allocate the it.

10:47:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:47:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Ms. Miller.
10:47:17 I guess my question now, I mean, we all have been in
10:47:20 support of the Central Park project, and I'm sure
10:47:23 still are.
10:47:25 Although you do point out that it's a huge project.
10:47:29 And I think that this is something that is coming in
10:47:33 front of cities and counties now looking for ways to
10:47:38 finance things through the stimulus money, and any
10:47:42 state and federal money that's coming available, since
10:47:44 we are in such a downturn.
10:47:47 My question is, as I think Mr. Smith had asked, why
10:47:53 can't we also include their project, which is a
10:48:00 smaller project, which to me seems, because it's not
10:48:04 as ambitious to have a little more likelihood of going
10:48:09 forward, in that list for the state, so they will be
10:48:13 part of that lottery.
10:48:14 Is there any reason that we can't do the same for
10:48:17 them?
10:48:22 >>> Mr. Smith's project is one before us.
10:48:25 I probably have four other developers that would want
10:48:27 to have the same opportunity.

10:48:29 In the event that there is -- one option that I
10:48:35 mentioned we can look at from a policy standpoint in
10:48:37 the future is looking at the opportunity for RFP for
10:48:43 these projects.
10:48:44 However, I believe that based upon the nature of how
10:48:46 we have structured this memorandum of understanding
10:48:49 and commitment to Central Park Village, it is
10:48:52 important that we dedicate all of our dollars to that.
10:48:57 So it would not be that I could come before you today
10:48:59 and recommend any difference in allocation.
10:49:01 And unfortunately I think it's too late for the tax
10:49:04 credits for this year.
10:49:06 Perhaps there would be an opportunity in future years
10:49:08 for other projects.
10:49:10 >>MARY MULHERN: But the money you are talking about is
10:49:12 the SHIP money and the home money which is coming
10:49:17 through the state.
10:49:18 >> Federal and state funds.
10:49:25 >>MARY MULHERN: I guess I'm curious because I have
10:49:27 seen this happen already, where this area didn't give
10:49:31 a big enough list for stimulus money, and -- I
10:49:38 shouldn't say didn't give a big enough list, but it's

10:49:41 just kind of like the squeaky wheel.
10:49:43 If you ask for more, perhaps you'll get more.
10:49:48 And I just think it makes more sense to ask for the
10:49:52 moon and hope that you will get it than just to limit
10:49:56 what you are asking for so that you can get the one
10:49:58 thing you want the most.
10:49:59 It's kind of like your letter to Santa, you know.
10:50:03 You ask for the big thing but you might not get that.
10:50:08 So it's one of the other ones in there, too.
10:50:14 >>CINDY MILLER: The stimulus request I believe was $53
10:50:18 million we asked for during partnership of this
10:50:19 project already in stimulus.
10:50:21 We intend to partner for other applications to the
10:50:23 federal government in the coming weeks.
10:50:26 So we do intend to ask for it.
10:50:28 My experience when I worked at the Washington level is
10:50:30 that you do ask for a significant amount of funds, but
10:50:35 you don't want to disburse those funds among a number
10:50:38 of projects.
10:50:39 It is better when you go to the federal government to
10:50:42 make a strong commitment so you can show you are a
10:50:44 strong commitment for a very few projects.

10:50:46 From that standpoint we believe this is the way to go.
10:50:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
10:50:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Miller D.this
10:50:55 discussion occur at the affordable housing workshop
10:51:00 that council had back in, what was it, January or
10:51:02 something?
10:51:04 >>CINDY MILLER: This project, Central Park and this
10:51:06 financial commitment has been presented at left twice
10:51:08 to you in our affordable housing workshop, as well as
10:51:11 last year when the original memorandum of
10:51:14 understanding --
10:51:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I remember all of those.
10:51:18 That's not my question, though.
10:51:20 My question is, did the discussion about the fact that
10:51:22 we are going to go full board with this project,
10:51:25 Central Park, okay, but to the exclusion of these
10:51:28 other projects, did that issue come up in front of
10:51:32 council before today?
10:51:35 >>CINDY MILLER: I believe it did.
10:51:37 We had indicated when they came forward that we were
10:51:39 committing three years of home and SHIP funds for this
10:51:44 project when the memorandum of understanding and the

10:51:47 commitment letter was addressed a year ago.
10:51:50 I believe it might be a little over a year ago.
10:51:53 And that was because we were making a commit ment, and
10:51:56 I know in my presentations I have said this is the
10:51:58 largest dollar amount the city has ever committed to
10:52:00 one project, because we are going over a multi-year
10:52:04 basis.
10:52:05 And in previous times, my recollection of my briefings
10:52:10 was the most we had ever allocated to a previous
10:52:12 project was either 500,000 or $1 million N.this case
10:52:15 we are dedicating $2 million per year.
10:52:19 >> I remember all of those.
10:52:20 I don't remember hearing the part to the exclusion of
10:52:23 other projects.
10:52:24 >>CINDY MILLER: Well, I wouldn't have said it was to
10:52:30 the exclusion, but I did say that we were using up all
10:52:33 of our multifamily commitments over that time period.
10:52:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Because Mr. Fletcher and his
10:52:39 predecessor, Mr. Smith, always remind us that we don't
10:52:43 run the administration, that's all fine and good.
10:52:45 But we do establish policy.
10:52:47 And we do it often by voting on these type of

10:52:49 contracts.
10:52:50 So I think at the time, whether or not it was a year
10:52:55 ago, two years ago, whenever we started on the Central
10:52:58 Park, thing, you know, it should have been abundantly
10:53:02 clear to us what path we were going down, and today
10:53:05 wouldn't come, or at least wouldn't be a surprise to
10:53:08 us when it did come.
10:53:10 But now we have got some folks who are coming in here
10:53:13 saying, we have great affordable housing projects, but
10:53:16 we are not being included because you put all your
10:53:20 marbles, you know, in that one.
10:53:23 So it's a little disturbing to get this far down the
10:53:30 road which is probably so far down the road that he
10:53:32 would don't have a way to turn back, even if we wanted
10:53:35 to, but without ever having really made that informed
10:53:39 decision.
10:53:43 So I'm a little disappointed in that.
10:53:44 I don't know what we can do about it.
10:53:46 I mean, you know, have these folks been given any
10:53:50 other options?
10:53:51 Are there any other places in any of our other
10:53:53 budgets, as tight as our budgets are, that we can help

10:53:56 those other projects that are very viable?
10:53:58 And I especially point to the one at Spruce and Lois,
10:54:06 because apparently, Mr. Chairman, you are the one who
10:54:08 was telling us that that project had been in the works
10:54:10 for many years with the county, and the county went
10:54:12 in --
10:54:17 Not the same project.
10:54:18 >> What is that, next door?
10:54:20 >> Yes.
10:54:20 Different project.
10:54:21 That's what Ron Rotella will tell us.
10:54:24 >> I saw Mr. Rotella here.
10:54:26 That's why I thought he was part of that.
10:54:30 >>CINDY MILLER: The Westshore Landings that you are
10:54:32 referring to for Mr. Rotella has received financing
10:54:34 and the commitment is in place.
10:54:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So that one is moving forward.
10:54:39 I apologize for that.
10:54:40 I got confused when I saw Mr. Rotella sitting with
10:54:42 those other gentlemen.
10:54:43 Okay.
10:54:43 Well, anyway, I think when we are -- we ultimately

10:54:50 need to be a policy board, we need to have all the
10:54:53 information as early as possible.
10:54:54 Thank you.
10:54:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, and I just want to say one other
10:54:58 thing, because I think on council, I think in a lot of
10:55:03 people in the private sector and especially not for
10:55:05 profits, our experience and a lot of frustration as
10:55:10 far as trying to have any kind of input, or get any
10:55:16 information about where the stimulus dollars are
10:55:19 going, and what those priorities are, and it's
10:55:24 especially frustrating for me because I think
10:55:30 especially for people who looked at the whole housing
10:55:33 craze and bubble for, you know, a long time, that's
10:55:37 being really unrealistic, and I sat here watching, and
10:55:42 even before I was on council, watching all these
10:55:44 projects get rezoned, and planned for and all this
10:55:48 commitment to them, knowing they were really unlikely
10:55:53 to happen, and it was just like just nuts.
10:55:56 So while the Central Park project is beautiful,
10:56:01 wonderful idea, in this economy, it just doesn't seem
10:56:08 likely that it's going to be one of the ones that's
10:56:12 going to be able to happen very soon.

10:56:15 And, you know, I know that, you know, really, I don't
10:56:19 see why we ought to face policy and decisions on
10:56:23 economic reality.
10:56:24 And so I just feel like if there's any way that you
10:56:26 can include these other smaller projects that we also
10:56:33 need that have more likelihood of happening in the
10:56:36 plans, I'd like to see those happen.
10:56:38 >>CINDY MILLER: If I may, maybe clarify something that
10:56:41 might address your question to some point, is that I
10:56:43 mentioned that the two items before you are basically,
10:56:47 although they are fully rewritten agreements, there is
10:56:51 already a written commitment in place for both of
10:56:54 these projects.
10:56:56 What this is doing is basically giving more
10:56:58 flexibility because we saw the drop-off of the SHIP
10:57:02 funds so we are facing economic reality that ship is
10:57:06 going down so we need to supplement with home funds.
10:57:08 But if you do nothing on these items today there is
10:57:10 still a $2 million commitment for these particular
10:57:13 items for this year that will not expire until
10:57:15 December 31st of 2009.
10:57:17 So today's items are a tweaking of an existing

10:57:20 commitment.
10:57:20 So there are existing commitments already there.
10:57:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, thank you.
10:57:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I recall, we made a commitment
10:57:32 to those individuals that live at Central Park, about
10:57:38 relocation, moving out, that this was going to happen,
10:57:40 and it's no one dragging their feet.
10:57:43 You have to consider everything that's happened to
10:57:48 validate the realities of where we are at.
10:57:52 And for me, anyway, one vote -- and I understand the
10:57:57 need to have any projects going, but also understand
10:58:01 the reduction of different funds that are coming in
10:58:04 from the state and the federal government, that you
10:58:08 can't get them all going.
10:58:09 And you can't start a project halfway one place and
10:58:12 halfway another place, and what you are going to have
10:58:15 then is exactly what we did earlier, and that was to
10:58:19 pass an ordinance giving you an additional six months
10:58:23 to a year, with a sunset in two years, that that job
10:58:27 would be completed.
10:58:29 We have to concentrate on things that can be
10:58:32 completed, and the other projects, the following

10:58:36 years, be funded the same way as this one was, to get
10:58:39 those projects completed.
10:58:41 To make an impact in any neighborhood, you can't do
10:58:45 one half of one street, another house three blocks
10:58:48 down and one a mile down and say we have done
10:58:51 something.
10:58:53 The visual of the eye is you do something en masse,
10:58:59 then it is accepted as a change because you can
10:59:01 recognize it very easily.
10:59:03 And my vote is going to be to hold what I said, and
10:59:09 what the administration said and what the public knows
10:59:11 about, park development.
10:59:16 So I'm just speaking for myself, and I understand
10:59:18 concerns, but at the end of the day, we have a
10:59:21 commitment to make.
10:59:23 We have a commitment to make not only to this project
10:59:25 but to the other projects.
10:59:27 And I think we can do that.
10:59:28 But they have to be done one project at a time under
10:59:32 the funding mechanism that's available today.
10:59:35 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:59:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just say, I was putting 49 and

10:59:40 50 just to highlight the commitment of the city to the
10:59:42 project, and on moving forward.
10:59:47 And that was the reason I wanted to highlight and talk
10:59:49 about our commitment, and it is very important, as I
10:59:53 said, last Thursday, that we support this project,
10:59:59 move it forward, because we made a commitment to the
11:00:02 residents, made a commitment tots to the Housing
11:00:04 Authority, made a commitment to the neighborhood for
11:00:06 Central Park.
11:00:07 And the city took the lead on that, and of course I
11:00:15 was with the county at the time, everyone knows my
11:00:17 position, in fact I held the project up until I
11:00:20 thought when could improve upon it.
11:00:22 And I think we did improve upon that.
11:00:24 So I continue to support that.
11:00:26 And I think it's important when this project comes
11:00:28 forth, like when it comes, it's important for us to
11:00:31 communicate to the public that the city has not
11:00:34 abandoned its commitment, has not vacated its
11:00:36 commitment.
11:00:37 We are still for Central Park, moving forward with
11:00:40 Central Park, the economy has had a major impact on

11:00:43 slowing this particular project down.
11:00:45 But hopefully it's going to be done.
11:00:47 Now, I think this is our second year commitment out of
11:00:50 a three-year commitment.
11:00:52 Is that true?
11:00:53 >>CINDY MILLER: That is true.
11:00:54 The first year's commitment would have been last year.
11:00:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
11:00:57 >>CINDY MILLER: Smile this will allow us to continue
11:01:00 the three-year commitment.
11:01:02 But if nothing goes forward this year, we did not
11:01:04 change that end date.
11:01:06 Last year's commitment said if it doesn't go forward
11:01:08 by 12-31-2009 this expires, we cut the same date in
11:01:13 this year's.
11:01:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And we also submitted the second
11:01:18 request to the federal government for infrastructure
11:01:20 through the program as well, some 23, $38 million?
11:01:28 But we don't have an answer on that yet.
11:01:30 >> We don't have an answer but we intend to look at
11:01:32 other opportunities in the future and I believe that
11:01:34 was mentioned in your CRA meeting last week and we do

11:01:37 intend to also continue that partnership and seek much
11:01:39 more additional funding.
11:01:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So I want to mention that.
11:01:42 Now, to Mr. Smith who came forward, I met with these
11:01:46 gentlemen in regards to this issue and I met with Mrs.
11:01:51 Miller and had a conversation with her and Ms. West to
11:01:57 as to opportunity to look at other avenues, and I
11:01:59 mentioned the waiver of impact fee which also still
11:02:04 had to be paid.
11:02:06 You talk about waiver, they still had to be paved paid
11:02:08 which means you still have to go to your budget or
11:02:11 somewhere to get that money.
11:02:12 So they assured me that given the economy and where we
11:02:16 are cutting and laying off, there's just no way to
11:02:18 find the necessary money at this point, but they would
11:02:21 take another look.
11:02:22 Also went over to the county.
11:02:25 I serve as chairman of the affordable housing, and
11:02:27 talked with them, and so they were trying to look as
11:02:30 well.
11:02:31 Now, they had money for through the impact fee waiver
11:02:35 program.

11:02:35 But it's in the city, not in the county.
11:02:37 So they could not qualify for that.
11:02:39 But they are looking as well to try to see if there's
11:02:42 opportunity to help the particular project.
11:02:45 It is a very good project.
11:02:46 I have a passionate love for affordable housing and
11:02:48 for seniors.
11:02:49 And if there's a way that we can get it done, I would
11:02:54 love for us to do it.
11:02:55 And I have been trying to explore options and avenues
11:03:00 and thus far, and no door has opened.
11:03:03 So hopefully, Ms. Miller, if you want to go back and
11:03:07 take another look.
11:03:08 But I just want to share with the board, council, my
11:03:10 participation and involvement, it is an issue that has
11:03:13 not been overlooked.
11:03:15 Staff has reviewed it.
11:03:16 Administration has looked at it.
11:03:18 I had an opportunity to meet with them.
11:03:19 I met with the county, see what opportunities there
11:03:21 were to move this project forward.
11:03:24 And so right now, everybody is still looking try to

11:03:26 find a way.
11:03:27 I know the deadline is May 30th, need $200,000 is
11:03:34 what they need.
11:03:35 >>CINDY MILLER: Mr. Chairman, let me also say that
11:03:38 when it comes to particularly affordable multi--family
11:03:42 rental, there is still a desperate need within our
11:03:45 community.
11:03:45 So I don't want to sound like I am in any way, in any
11:03:51 kind of opposition to the Crossland development.
11:03:52 I believe that that development is necessary as are a
11:03:56 number of other developments.
11:03:57 It's just that he would need to be able to stand by
11:03:59 the commitment we currently have in place.
11:04:01 And we will continue to look for other funding
11:04:03 opportunities.
11:04:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
11:04:07 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to say one other thing.
11:04:10 I am totally in support of the Central Park project.
11:04:12 I'm not questioning whether we should support that.
11:04:15 But I do want -- and I have talked to the Housing
11:04:17 Authority about this, too, because I know they are
11:04:21 very committed to this project, and it's really their

11:04:24 project.
11:04:25 By and large.
11:04:26 But I do think that, you know, really you can make a
11:04:33 commitment, but what is going to be the end result?
11:04:36 Are you actually going to be able to come through with
11:04:38 that commitment?
11:04:39 So I think that in such a huge project that I am going
11:04:45 to support this, but I think that we need to really
11:04:48 think about the fact that it was a huge, has massive,
11:04:52 multi-use, you know, mixed-income project.
11:04:58 And it may be something that needs to be scaled back
11:05:03 some, and if the commitment is to those people who
11:05:07 were displaced, maybe it should be rethought in that
11:05:09 way, so that you can -- should be designed in a way
11:05:14 that you are filling that commitment, but that it can
11:05:16 actually happen sooner, you know, as we go through
11:05:19 this economy.
11:05:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:05:23 Do we have a motion on item 49 and 50?
11:05:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
11:05:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
11:05:28 (Motion carried).

11:05:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Could I suggest we do the Executive
11:05:33 Director of SWFWMD is here?
11:05:35 >> That's fine.
11:05:53 >> Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, members of the
11:05:54 council.
11:05:56 I wanted to share some thoughts relative to regional
11:05:59 water management and especially emphasizing the
11:06:02 situation.
11:06:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Could you state your name, who you
11:06:04 represent for the record, please, sir?
11:06:06 >>> David Moore, Executive Director of the Southwest
11:06:09 Florida Water Management District.
11:06:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:06:11 >>> Thank you very much.
11:06:13 Again, I wanted to share a few thoughts on regional
11:06:17 water management as well as the current drought
11:06:18 situation.
11:06:19 First I want to start by recognizing the leadership of
11:06:22 this council, the mayor, your utility department, the
11:06:27 many water management issues that you are facing.
11:06:30 Like every other great city in the nation, you are
11:06:34 facing the challenges of upkeeping aging

11:06:39 infrastructure and at the same time having to expand
11:06:42 your sustainable water supplies.
11:06:43 Your efforts to look at reclaimed water and how to
11:06:46 maximize the benefits of reclaimed water to develop
11:06:49 alternative supplies, in partnership with Tampa Bay
11:06:53 water, and then your recent action to limit water use,
11:06:57 consistent with the needs of the city, all demonstrate
11:07:00 great leadership.
11:07:02 I have a PowerPoint presentation that I would like to
11:07:04 share with you that speaks relative to water
11:07:07 management district.
11:07:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How long is that presentation?
11:07:10 >>> It's about ten minutes.
11:07:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:07:17 As long as it's not 45.
11:07:19 >>> I hope not but I will try to keep it to ten
11:07:22 minutes, Mr. Chair.
11:07:23 As you may know, there are five water management
11:07:34 district in Florida, and set up in the sixties, the
11:07:37 one I represent is the west coast.
11:07:39 There are two water areas in this part of Florida, one
11:07:44 you heard so much about is here in the northwest

11:07:46 Hillsborough County, Pasco County, we have eleven
11:07:49 wellfields up there, and that was the source of the
11:07:52 water wars that you heard so much about going all the
11:07:54 way back to the 70s.
11:07:55 Well, that problem was solved about ten years ago when
11:07:59 Tampa Bay water and of course Tampa is a member of
11:08:05 Tampa Bay water, entered into a partnership to reduce
11:08:07 the coverage in those eleven wellfields and the
11:08:09 pumpage has been greatly reduced from 160 million a
11:08:13 day back to less than 90 million gallons of water a
11:08:16 day, and that was done through development of
11:08:18 alternative supplies.
11:08:19 The second area we have is an area south of I-4, an
11:08:23 8-county area called the cautionary for pumping over
11:08:27 600 million gallons of water a day, like the south
11:08:30 water intrusion, drying up of springs, lakes levels,
11:08:34 and managing that problem also.
11:08:35 I'm pleased to report to you there's a lot of progress
11:08:37 being made on both of those fronts.
11:08:39 This graph shows the amount of water being used in the
11:08:44 eight-county area south of I-4 going all the way back
11:08:48 to 1950.

11:08:49 And this is something I think very few folks are aware
11:08:54 of.
11:08:55 We are using less groundwater now in the eight-county
11:08:58 area south of I-4, than we did in 1975.
11:09:03 Less water now than in 1975.
11:09:05 And that's significant in that we have added a million
11:09:08 people to that area in the meantime.
11:09:11 That's being done through conservation, development of
11:09:14 alternative supplies.
11:09:15 I think a lot of folks also forget that water use
11:09:19 permitting did not start in the State of Florida until
11:09:21 about 1975.
11:09:23 So we are actually using less water now than was being
11:09:27 used when we started permitting in 1975.
11:09:30 Relative to the northern Tampa Bay area and the eleven
11:09:34 wellfield, here's a graph going back to 50 years
11:09:38 showing the pumpage in those wellfields in north Tampa
11:09:41 really increased all the way through the 90s, where
11:09:43 we are using more than 160 million gallons of water a
11:09:48 day.
11:09:48 Over the last decade we have been able to reduce that
11:09:51 to below 90 million gallons of water a day so that's

11:09:54 progress, tremendous progress.
11:09:55 Here is the regional system that supplies water to the
11:09:58 Tampa Bay area.
11:10:00 We get about 90 million gallons a day from the eleven
11:10:04 Wellfield north of Tampa, we get about 30 million
11:10:07 gallons a day from the wellfields east of Tampa, of
11:10:11 course the Hillsborough River is a major part of that
11:10:14 system with 82 million gallons of water a day, 25
11:10:17 million gallons a day sea water desal plant and
11:10:21 another 60 million or so from the Bill young reservoir
11:10:25 and associated infrastructure.
11:10:27 We also have a lot of reclaimed water systems.
11:10:29 And again, we understand, we have been working with
11:10:32 your staff and completing your reclaimed water master
11:10:35 plan, looking at further expansion of that system here
11:10:37 in Tampa.
11:10:40 There's probably very few places in the country that
11:10:42 have as much reclaimed water as west coast of Florida.
11:10:45 We look to continue to be a leadership in that arena.
11:10:48 When you look at water use over just the last decade,
11:10:51 of the six member governments of Tampa Bay water, you
11:10:53 can see that there's a lot of progress there being

11:10:56 made.
11:10:57 Now, you can look at the Pasco County graph over the
11:10:59 last ten years, and you can see the growth that
11:11:01 occurred in the late 90 and early 2000s and there's
11:11:08 been a bit of a decline, the same thing for
11:11:10 Hillsborough County, the same thing for Tampa.
11:11:12 But the three communities that had very stable
11:11:14 population over the last decade, there's been a
11:11:16 tremendous amount of savings.
11:11:19 Actually Pinellas County is using less potable water
11:11:23 now than it did in 1980.
11:11:25 So conservation can be a very, very effective tool.
11:11:30 Let's focus on the drought that we are currently
11:11:31 under.
11:11:32 We are in the grips of an over 3-year drought.
11:11:34 That's been going on for close to throw and a half
11:11:36 years now.
11:11:38 We are in a very low rainfall, probably when we look
11:11:42 at a three-year rainfall event we get this little
11:11:46 rainfall.
11:11:47 We recently had a severe drought in 98, or 2002, and
11:11:53 this shows the accumulating surplus for deficits of

11:11:56 these wet and dry periods.
11:11:57 And you can see that we have been going down since
11:12:00 about early 2006, and we continue to go down, and in
11:12:09 this particular range gaining gauge a 30-inch deficit
11:12:13 over that time period.
11:12:15 Some of the rain gauges are showing 40 inches of
11:12:17 deficit.
11:12:17 So we are going down, and we continue to go down.
11:12:22 We are really seeing the effects of this shortage is
11:12:24 in our river systems.
11:12:26 We have two great rivers that aid us in our water
11:12:29 supply, the Hillsborough River and the Alafia river.
11:12:32 Here's a graph of the ills Hillsborough River.
11:12:34 You can see towards the end of the graph we are right
11:12:36 there close to historical lows, flow for the
11:12:39 Hillsborough River and the same thing goes for the
11:12:41 Alafia river.
11:12:43 You have seen the Hillsborough River.
11:12:44 If you go out and visit the Hillsborough River behind
11:12:47 the dam and the watershed there's very little flow
11:12:50 coming down the Hillsborough River at this time.
11:12:51 When you look at your reservoir, your reservoir, the

11:12:56 middle Hillsborough River, by the time you get down to
11:12:59 16 or 15 feet, you are not able to get supply out of
11:13:01 that.
11:13:02 And I know you are very concerned about that river.
11:13:04 If you look at it, it's been kept near 20 feet now for
11:13:09 the last several months.
11:13:10 But there's a reason it's been kept.
11:13:13 Council member Miranda, and your staff working with
11:13:15 the district staff, we have undertaken a number of
11:13:17 emergency orders.
11:13:18 When you drive across the Tampa bypass canal and look
11:13:22 at it -- for those not familiar with the bypass canal,
11:13:25 it's when you go over the interstate near Vandenberg
11:13:29 airport, you see that.
11:13:29 This is a structure built 30 years ago.
11:13:32 Few people realize this has the ability to move the
11:13:34 entire flow of the Hillsborough River around Temple
11:13:36 Terrace and Tampa for protection.
11:13:38 It's also used for water supply.
11:13:40 But if you look at that bypass canal it's lower than
11:13:44 it's ever been.
11:13:45 We have gone to emergency order after emergency order

11:13:48 but we are now pretty close to the bottom of the
11:13:50 barrel so we are not going to be able to supplement
11:13:52 the middle Hillsborough River much longer with this
11:13:54 source.
11:13:55 So you can expect to see the reservoir dropping more
11:13:59 so than it has in recent times.
11:14:04 Again, it's unfortunate, I think as a region we are
11:14:07 right on the precipice of having of a very drought
11:14:11 resistant regional supply.
11:14:13 It was unfortunate, we had the perfect storm in this
11:14:16 three and a half year drought coupled with the repair
11:14:19 problems of the Bill young reservoir.
11:14:20 But when we did -- get that fully operational we
11:14:23 should have a very drought resistant system.
11:14:26 The real issue today is we are trying to minimize the
11:14:29 pumpage below the 90 million gallons a day in the
11:14:31 northern wellfields.
11:14:34 Here's a graph of those northern wellfields and what
11:14:39 Pasco County.
11:14:39 Back a decade ago we were -- you can see that one
11:14:43 month there we were withdrawing almost 210 million
11:14:46 gallons of water a day from those wellfields,

11:14:48 averaging close to 160 million gallons of water a day.
11:14:51 We have come down and we are below 90 until very
11:14:54 recently but you can see to the far right of this
11:14:56 graph the average is going to go back up possibly as
11:15:00 much to 110 million gallons of water a day.
11:15:04 Hopefully that's going to be very temporary just to
11:15:06 get through this drought.
11:15:08 You can see the monthly pumpage all the way to the
11:15:10 right is not what it was ten years ago.
11:15:12 Is itself important that we?
11:15:14 Yes.
11:15:14 Is it important we minimize the amount of time we are
11:15:17 over 90?
11:15:18 Yes.
11:15:18 Are we back to where we were ten years ago?
11:15:20 No.
11:15:21 But it's going to be extremely important that we
11:15:23 conserve water during this period of time.
11:15:26 Here is a graph that just shows monthly water use for
11:15:28 the whole Tampa Bay region.
11:15:30 And it shows the last two years since we have had
11:15:32 water shortage.

11:15:33 We are using less water than we were the two prior
11:15:36 years.
11:15:38 And I'll end with this graph, if I could, and this is
11:15:41 a graph that kind of shows the highlights.
11:15:43 It's not everything.
11:15:44 It is the highlights of the current water shortage.
11:15:46 I think pretty much everyone in the community
11:15:48 understands that we are watering only one day a week,
11:15:51 and you have very limited hours.
11:15:52 It depends on where you are so I won't go into all
11:15:55 those restrictions.
11:15:56 But we also have restrictions on watering for a lawn
11:16:00 establishment, we are issuing citations throughout
11:16:02 this region, without warnings.
11:16:04 And to make sure that everyone is playing.
11:16:07 We really find three categories of water users.
11:16:09 We find the people who are really doing a great job in
11:16:12 managing their water and make sure we commend it.
11:16:14 We have people who in the second category which are
11:16:17 law-abiding citizens, they are watering on their
11:16:21 watering days but they are watering on their watering
11:16:24 days whether they need to or not and we need to get

11:16:26 the message out only water on your watering days when
11:16:29 you need it.
11:16:30 We do a little commercial here.
11:16:31 We got that rainfall two days ago.
11:16:33 Nearly an inch of rainfall for the area.
11:16:34 People 6:00 skip the watering for the next seven or
11:16:37 ten days, you know.
11:16:38 That was adequate watering.
11:16:39 In the third category of folks, it's high-end users,
11:16:42 folks that aren't necessarily being as conscientious
11:16:46 about water use as the folks in the other two
11:16:48 categories.
11:16:49 We have prohibitions on the use of fountains, except
11:16:52 for reclaimed water and non-commercial pressure
11:16:54 washing and car washing.
11:16:56 Water -- a message to serve.
11:17:03 Public places to keep the temperature up where you
11:17:04 can.
11:17:05 The last five issues are the ones that I really want
11:17:08 to focus on.
11:17:09 Aft least three or four of the five.
11:17:12 The first two are coupled.

11:17:13 When we were looking at the data, we were seeing that
11:17:16 we had a number of high-end users.
11:17:20 And it's not uncommon for the largest water, 2% of the
11:17:25 water users on the utility system, to be using five,
11:17:28 ten or fifteen percent of the water.
11:17:31 We saw some coverage on some of the high end users,
11:17:33 people using tens of thousands if not hundreds of
11:17:35 thousands of gallons of water a month for irrigation
11:17:40 primarily.
11:17:41 We need to make sure that we have those high-end users
11:17:44 come in line with everyone else.
11:17:46 A second part of that is another thing that our board
11:17:49 is suggesting, I'm here to ask you to consider today,
11:17:53 and that is a water shortage emergency surcharge for
11:17:57 the high-end users only.
11:17:59 We only talk about the high end users.
11:18:02 98% of the people use less than 15,000 gallons a month
11:18:08 but for people who use more than that it's a very
11:18:10 common best practice especially in the western United
11:18:13 States to have a drought surcharge on the high end
11:18:15 users to send an additional pricing signal when we get
11:18:18 into worst of times.

11:18:20 So it's something I want this council to consider.
11:18:23 The next one, third from the last, is reduce system
11:18:27 pressure where feasible.
11:18:28 I know the City of Tampa looked at that, the utility
11:18:30 staff did an excellent job.
11:18:32 They probably did the best job of all, six member
11:18:34 governments in reducing the pressure which saved water
11:18:37 and still meeting the regulatory requirements of fire
11:18:41 protection.
11:18:42 The second-to-the-last one is one that frustrates us,
11:18:44 and that's consideration of reclaimed water
11:18:46 availability fee.
11:18:48 It's frustrating when the City of Tampa and the water
11:18:51 management district work in partnership to secure
11:18:55 funds to build reclaimed water transmission lines and
11:19:00 only have, you know, less than 15% of the people hook
11:19:04 up to those lines.
11:19:05 Reclaimed water is an extraordinarily valuable asset
11:19:09 in the 21st century.
11:19:10 We need to maximize its beneficial use.
11:19:14 And we need to get as many people hooked up as
11:19:16 possible.

11:19:17 One of the things that some local governments will do
11:19:20 when they run a reclaimed water line down a street
11:19:23 they will charge an availability fee, whether you hook
11:19:25 up or not.
11:19:27 We are seeing many local governments getting well over
11:19:29 90 or 95% of the residents hooking up.
11:19:32 We need to get that type of participation everywhere.
11:19:35 This council and the mayor needs to figure out and
11:19:38 work with the public in making sure we maximize the
11:19:40 number of people hooking up to reclaimed water.
11:19:43 Finally, we have asked Tampa Bay water to emphasize
11:19:45 the importance of water conservation, to hold a
11:19:48 summit, and that is scheduled for May 5th at the
11:19:51 Tampa Convention Center.
11:19:54 With that said, council members, again I want to thank
11:19:56 you for your leadership and partnership.
11:19:58 I would be happy to answer any questions you have
11:19:59 relative to this issue.
11:20:03 >>CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
11:20:07 We appreciate that.
11:20:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just wanted to thank Mr. Moore
11:20:15 for coming and making a great presentation.

11:20:18 I think that we are so used to just opening faucets
11:20:22 and seeing things flow, flushing the toilet and it
11:20:25 works.
11:20:26 And it's hard to change something that since you were
11:20:30 a child it's always been there for 50, 60, 70 years,
11:20:35 some 20 years, some 10 years, whatever.
11:20:37 And habits are formed because it's always been there.
11:20:41 And even though like you stated earlier, the
11:20:46 consumptive daily water use is lower than it was in
11:20:52 1975 or 33 years ago, so it is not the 98% rule abide
11:20:58 by, it's not 2% who don't.
11:21:01 I can imagine and consider that I guess more than any
11:21:05 council member I have gotten a lot of calls.
11:21:08 I have had 237 e-mails since Monday.
11:21:11 I don't know what they all are because I haven't
11:21:14 reviewed them all.
11:21:15 But I guarantee the great majority is all about water.
11:21:18 We are not trying to tell anyone not to water.
11:21:21 We have done it in a way so that the system would have
11:21:26 what you stated earlier, the pressurized system, and
11:21:29 the footage at the reservoir.
11:21:31 But, you see, in an area, when you come out of this

11:21:34 building, you go by the river, you see the water and
11:21:38 you drive by the way, you see water on both sides.
11:21:41 So you say, what are these people crazy?
11:21:45 Look at all the water we have.
11:21:47 And they tell me we have a problem.
11:21:48 But that's not the water we drink.
11:21:50 The water we drink comes from the reservoir, it comes
11:21:55 from the bypass canal, and that's drying up, and it
11:21:58 comes from the bridge wellfield and that's it.
11:22:04 Those are the three areas that are drying up,
11:22:06 especially the bypass canal and the reservoir.
11:22:09 So I want to tell you that we will consider working
11:22:16 with the administration about the availability fees.
11:22:18 We will consider about the surcharges on high water
11:22:23 users.
11:22:24 And we are not trying to gouge anybody on this.
11:22:26 In fact, the City of Tampa will lose more than a
11:22:31 million dollars by not having the sale of its water.
11:22:34 When you look at it, the great majority of the meters,
11:22:37 there's only one that uses both, and that meter also
11:22:43 is the sewer system.
11:22:47 Guess what, we are losing on both sides.

11:22:49 But it's not about a loss.
11:22:50 It's about doing the right thing at the right time.
11:22:54 I don't think we overreacted one bit.
11:22:58 I think that all industries have to retool, including
11:23:01 this government.
11:23:02 As you well know, I talked about when I was a kid, and
11:23:05 this, that and the other, and used to deliver kerosene
11:23:10 on trucks.
11:23:11 Why can't we start something to work a dialogue to put
11:23:15 four or five trucks delivering reclaimed water to
11:23:18 different people?
11:23:19 We are trying to save the commodity.
11:23:22 And that's the water that we drink.
11:23:25 The reclaimed would have abundance.
11:23:27 But let me also caution that although you have
11:23:29 abundance of reclaimed today, that doesn't mean that
11:23:32 20 years from now you will.
11:23:34 But I want to thank you for your presentation, and all
11:23:37 the good work that you have done, especially in
11:23:40 helping the city, when I remember the drought of 2000
11:23:44 and 2001 when you helped us get the pipes in from
11:23:47 Texas, we didn't have the pipes, when you showed us

11:23:49 how things had to be done, and the city really moved
11:23:53 quickly to save a catastrophe, because at that time we
11:23:56 were very, very -- within days of not having the
11:23:59 water.
11:24:00 Thank you very much.
11:24:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
11:24:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:24:03 Thank you, Mr. Moore, for all you do, and your
11:24:06 leadership over the years at SWFWMD.
11:24:09 You know, we are a small part of 300,000 residents out
11:24:13 of millions of residents that SWFWMD serves.
11:24:17 But we do appreciate all that you do.
11:24:20 Mr. Chairman, there were two motions that I wanted to
11:24:23 make, and I appreciate Mr. Moore sort of giving us a
11:24:28 little reminder about why these types of motions are
11:24:31 important.
11:24:34 As he stated, reclaimed water is extremely valuable
11:24:36 asset.
11:24:38 And we have a small reclaimed water system.
11:24:42 It's a start.
11:24:42 We call it star I.
11:24:45 It services about 8700 homes and businesses.

11:24:49 And, unfortunately, and we don't need to rehash
11:24:52 history, but unfortunately, less than half of those
11:24:55 customers, potential customers are signed up.
11:24:59 Somewhere in the neighborhood, I think, of 3300, maybe
11:25:03 3200.
11:25:04 We made some progress and we are continuing to make
11:25:06 progress.
11:25:08 Some of those residents don't water their yards, like
11:25:12 me.
11:25:13 You know, although I don't have reclaimed water.
11:25:16 But a block away from my you house there's reclaimed
11:25:18 water.
11:25:19 I have seen some of those residents over there.
11:25:21 They have got just dirt in the yards, obviously not
11:25:24 watering the yards.
11:25:25 But some do.
11:25:27 And they are using potable us what water.
11:25:29 And that's wrong.
11:25:32 The federal government, along with support from
11:25:34 SWFWMD, and I'm sure the state, put in $10 million
11:25:38 into the Star 1 system.
11:25:40 The city put in, I'm sure, another probably 10 million

11:25:44 or more of our own city funds to put in the Star 1
11:25:49 system.
11:25:49 So now you have got folks, you have got this purple
11:25:54 pipe with reclaimed water out at their curb, but for
11:25:57 whatever reason, convenience, inconvenience, expense,
11:25:59 perceived expense, perceived notion that reclaimed is
11:26:03 bad for their yards, all of these fallacies, they are
11:26:05 not hooking up.
11:26:06 And volunteered.
11:26:09 So we have to take the voluntary out of it.
11:26:11 My motion might sound a little harsh so I am going to
11:26:15 go through it really carefully and slowly.
11:26:17 But what I want to do is within the next 30 days, I
11:26:21 would direct legal, the legal department, to draft an
11:26:24 ordinance that would mandate, okay, that any property
11:26:28 owner, residential or business, who has a reclaimed
11:26:33 water pipe at their curb, and uses it to currently
11:26:38 irrigate their yards with a sprinkler system, that
11:26:40 they have a responsibility to the community to hook
11:26:41 up, and to use reclaimed water, and that we would
11:26:45 direct the legal department to draft an ordinance that
11:26:48 would require that by the end of 2009 that those

11:26:53 businesses and residents who are sprinkling their
11:26:56 yards with potable water would hook up to the
11:26:57 reclaimed water system that's in front of their house.
11:27:00 Now, there's a caveat that I would like to throw in.
11:27:04 And that would be that the legal department also
11:27:06 include a waiver for financial hardship.
11:27:11 I think it's probably pretty unlikely but that might
11:27:13 be somebody out there, perhaps a senior citizen or
11:27:15 somebody on a fixed income, who has been watering
11:27:18 their yards but feels they can't afford to hook up to
11:27:22 the city reclaimed water that's right there at their
11:27:25 curb.
11:27:25 I think we need to include a waiver, a potential
11:27:28 waiver if somebody wants to come in and claim a
11:27:30 financial hardship, that would waive the city hookup
11:27:33 fee, which I understand is like 300-some dollars.
11:27:38 I think we need to be careful of that, because
11:27:41 obviously, you know, we need to be cognizant of those
11:27:45 in need.
11:27:45 Especially in these difficult times.
11:27:51 But I think this is extremely important.
11:27:54 Think it gives folks enough time, okay, over the next

11:27:57 six months to figure this out, because you know what?
11:28:01 Chances are next year we'll be back in the same
11:28:03 situation again.
11:28:04 We are going to get some rain this summer just like we
11:28:06 always do, hopefully -- knock on wood -- okay, but
11:28:10 chances are by next winter we'll be in some form of
11:28:13 drought again.
11:28:14 And we don't want to have to look back and say, wow, I
11:28:18 wish we had done something last summer, so let's do it
11:28:20 now.
11:28:21 That would be my motion if anybody needs clarification
11:28:22 because it was rather long-winded.
11:28:25 I will be glad to clarify it.
11:28:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
11:28:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
11:28:29 I wasn't planning to speak to your motion but I'm one
11:28:31 of those people who doesn't water my lawn but could
11:28:34 hook up to reclaimed.
11:28:35 And the reason that people don't do it is because it
11:28:39 costs too much, and we can't afford it.
11:28:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I clarify my requirement?
11:28:46 >>MARY MULHERN: I heard what you said.

11:28:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's only applicable if you
11:28:49 irrigate.
11:28:50 >>MARY MULHERN: I understand that.
11:28:51 But I'm telling you those people who haven't hooked up
11:28:54 made a decision not just to irrigate for the most
11:28:56 part.
11:28:57 There are probably some cheaters, but I think that the
11:29:01 regulations we put in place recently have been
11:29:04 working.
11:29:05 I think Brad is going to tell us amazingly well by
11:29:08 just telling -- reducing, you know, we have not
11:29:14 allowed any watering.
11:29:15 But even when we had just reduced by the number of
11:29:20 days could you do it, the irrigation folks here even
11:29:22 have the statistics of how much that decreased the use
11:29:26 of water.
11:29:26 So I'm not against this motion.
11:29:31 I'm just not sure that it's going to really have a lot
11:29:33 of effect.
11:29:34 Because I know those are my neighbors.
11:29:36 It's a small, you know, area that is actually able to
11:29:39 get reclaimed water.

11:29:40 And we made a decision just because we are going
11:29:44 toward native plants and we are going to be planting,
11:29:47 you know, plenty of garden so we don't want to use
11:29:50 reclaimed water.
11:29:51 So I'm not against it but I just don't think it's
11:29:54 really going to be a big solution.
11:29:57 And I would like to hear from Mr. Baird about what he
11:30:01 thinks how much that will help us.
11:30:03 But I did want to say that I think -- thank you for
11:30:09 all that information.
11:30:09 There's a lot that I learned from your presentation.
11:30:11 And I didn't realize that those big users were using,
11:30:16 what did you say, like --
11:30:18 >>> Some folks are using hundreds of thousands of
11:30:21 gallons.
11:30:24 >>MARY MULHERN: You said it was a percentage.
11:30:25 >>> It's not uncommon for the largest water, 2% users
11:30:29 on a utility system, to be using somewhere between 5
11:30:33 and 15% of the water use.
11:30:35 >> That's just wrong.
11:30:36 So I think that the surcharge is absolutely something
11:30:39 we should do, and we should make it as high as we can,

11:30:42 because a lot of these people are going to be able to
11:30:45 afford to pay it, so let them pay it and we can use
11:30:48 that money to expand the reclaimed water system.
11:30:51 And I also think that some of the problems we had with
11:30:55 the star system should be -- and I know that we are
11:30:59 learning from it, from talking to Steven, but as we
11:31:03 expand the system we learn from, you know, making it
11:31:07 voluntary, and not really doing the kind of marketing
11:31:11 we needed to do.
11:31:12 And I think we do need education about the quality of
11:31:17 the water, which Brad has been helping me with, but
11:31:22 there is still a perception out there about whether
11:31:25 it's safe to use it on your plants.
11:31:26 So I think we really do need -- that's another key
11:31:30 that will get more people to hook up, is they know
11:31:35 that it's safe.
11:31:36 And then I just wanted to say one other thing.
11:31:39 And I thank Mr. Miranda for all his tips he's been
11:31:42 giving us over the last couple years.
11:31:44 But last night my third grader, I finally got him to
11:31:48 get in the shower, you know.
11:31:50 And so I was waiting for him so I could put him to

11:31:53 bed, and I said, what are you doing in there?
11:31:55 You are not taking a shower.
11:31:56 And I finally went in there and he said, I'm turning
11:31:59 the water off when -- I lather up and then I turn the
11:32:04 water off.
11:32:07 The Miranda shower.
11:32:11 [ Laughter ]
11:32:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
11:32:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Ms. Mulhern.
11:32:17 But really we are looking at a gentleman now who has a
11:32:19 lower water bill than I do.
11:32:21 Mr. Moore.
11:32:22 I checked on that.
11:32:22 It's amazing.
11:32:24 And he showers every day.
11:32:26 Let me say this.
11:32:28 I am not opposed to a lot of things.
11:32:30 I look at life and I say, now, did the Wright brothers
11:32:35 first plane every take off?
11:32:36 The answer is no.
11:32:38 Either even today with all the technology we have of
11:32:40 rockets going up to orbit a lot of them don't make it

11:32:43 up.
11:32:44 Did we do the right thing in the water reclaimed?
11:32:46 I think absolutely we did.
11:32:48 However, we had a commitment.
11:32:51 We passed an ordinance.
11:32:52 And the public knew what we passed at that time.
11:32:55 I'm not opposed to -- and I said it in the past --
11:32:57 that any new water hookups that we do regarding
11:33:02 reclaimed, you have no more than one year to hook up
11:33:05 to that system, and that you know what it is.
11:33:09 My personal feeling is that when I start to change
11:33:12 something that I have already passed on, I feel like I
11:33:17 double dipped in the same area, and my word is my bond
11:33:19 and my handshake is my contract.
11:33:21 And I did that when we started the reclaimed system at
11:33:25 that time.
11:33:27 So the way I was brought up, I have a problem in
11:33:30 changing that, just because things change.
11:33:35 However, I think you are going to hear that the amount
11:33:39 of people who have requested -- I can tell you this by
11:33:42 the amount of calls that I have had -- listen, I'm on
11:33:46 the list.

11:33:47 And I was one of those 5600.
11:33:52 I am going to wait four to six weeks for this?
11:33:55 I want it now.
11:33:56 I ask where have you been the last seven years?
11:33:58 So it's something that is really catching on, because
11:34:01 of the media attention that this item has gotten, and
11:34:04 I have seen your TV commercial with the faucet on, and
11:34:07 it's gorgeous.
11:34:08 It works fantastic.
11:34:09 I love that commercial.
11:34:10 I think you ought to you all are doing a great job
11:34:14 getting it done.
11:34:15 I can also tell you that the reclaimed is not a
11:34:21 savior.
11:34:23 It's a Band-Aid for awhile.
11:34:26 Until all of us retool mentally on the abuse that we
11:34:30 do to the environment.
11:34:33 You certainly hit the points, the high notes of the
11:34:35 amount of water, less that we do now from groundwater
11:34:40 and the wells, and you have gone to 90 and you are to
11:34:44 be commended along with those people at Tampa Bay
11:34:46 water who you are holding the feet to the fire on, and

11:34:48 I appreciate that.
11:34:50 But I can tell you that as a taxpayer, we subsidize
11:34:56 something that immaterial never going to have.
11:34:58 And I'm not worried about that.
11:35:00 Even though I was one of the fathers of reclaimed back
11:35:03 when the city first started it, I am never going to
11:35:06 have reclaimed because our area doesn't use it.
11:35:08 And I'm subsidizing it as the others are.
11:35:11 And we have benefits coming back from that, also, in
11:35:15 lower water rate.
11:35:15 What I don't want is for us who are never going to
11:35:19 have reclaimed -- and we have to be straightforward
11:35:21 with the public and tell them it will take five houses
11:35:24 to do reclaimed for one.
11:35:26 So that means that 80% of the population, 85% may
11:35:33 never get reclaimed.
11:35:35 Yet you are helping the system.
11:35:37 But I'm not against supporting the system.
11:35:40 What I'm against is saying that now I am going to
11:35:43 subsidize the system so that somebody can get
11:35:45 reclaimed when they can do it themselves.
11:35:47 I think the city has a responsibility in changing that

11:35:51 way.
11:35:52 I think you can fund that by saying,s listen, we
11:35:55 charge,a, water for reclaimed.
11:35:57 Downtown have the money, we are going to charge you A,
11:36:00 plus a certain percent increase in your water
11:36:04 reclaimed bill so that you pay for it without having
11:36:06 the upfront cash.
11:36:08 And that's -- we no longer have this but it's coming
11:36:15 back, the layaway program.
11:36:16 You remember how we used to buy things on lay yeah
11:36:19 Aye, nobody got credit, and we invented the credit
11:36:22 card and we went busted.
11:36:23 So I'm saying the city is smart must have enough and
11:36:29 the you are smart enough to say we have a lay away
11:36:33 plan, you get it installed and the rest us don't have
11:36:36 to pay for it and I think that's the way to go.
11:36:38 I can also toll you that in present times we need
11:36:41 vehicles to supply reclaimed water to those big users
11:36:44 that are using reclaimed that don't have the reclaimed
11:36:49 available to them.
11:36:51 We need a system to support some of those.
11:36:53 I'm not against those people.

11:36:55 I have to make a decision based on the facts that are
11:36:57 presented before us.
11:36:59 And I made my decision.
11:37:00 Others said, now what?
11:37:02 You got to show me the need.
11:37:06 They voted that way.
11:37:08 And I'm not opposed to that.
11:37:09 But what I'm saying is, we have to fix this system,
11:37:14 and more than one direction.
11:37:15 A pipe and reclaimed to one house doesn't solve the
11:37:18 problem.
11:37:19 You have to have a general review, if somebody in East
11:37:22 Tampa, West Tampa, wants reclaimed water, why can't we
11:37:25 send to the them via vehicle?
11:37:27 I think that's workable.
11:37:28 And I'm just asking you, sir, to consider that in the
11:37:31 future plans of your organization.
11:37:34 I would certainly appreciate in any way that I can
11:37:36 help you, I would.
11:37:37 Thank you, Madam Chair.
11:37:38 >>> If I could, on that comment, I recently met with
11:37:44 the mayor and the utility staff and so forth, and

11:37:47 again, the city is working on a master reclaimed water
11:37:50 plan, we stand to be a partner, we want to work with
11:37:53 you on that initiative, and I'll just give you a
11:37:57 vision of the future.
11:37:58 We have a community here in the Tampa Bay area, and
11:38:02 what they are doing with reclaimed water is amazing.
11:38:05 The city is Dunedin.
11:38:06 Not only have they gotten thousands and thousands of
11:38:10 customers hooked up to that system, they are limiting
11:38:13 its use.
11:38:13 You can use more than potable water with it.
11:38:15 But it's not unlimited use.
11:38:18 In fact, they actually run out of reclaimed water for
11:38:21 two weeks of the year.
11:38:24 The worst dryest two weeks of the year and we work
11:38:26 with them to give them a permit for four weeks of the
11:38:29 year to augment the reclaimed water at groundwater so
11:38:34 they can hook up another several thousand customers.
11:38:36 That's the vision of the future.
11:38:38 It's metering that reclaimed water, charging
11:38:40 volume-based rate, a price on potable water but
11:38:45 maximizing the beneficial use of that reclaimed water

11:38:48 and we look forward to a partnership on that.
11:38:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have to move.
11:38:53 It's 20 minutes of 12.
11:38:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: On that motion --
11:38:57 One second, one second.
11:38:59 Mr. Moore, you are finished with your presentation,
11:39:02 right?
11:39:02 Thank you very much.
11:39:03 Councilwoman Miller.
11:39:04 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to ask Mr. Daignault to
11:39:08 give me your opinion about how you feel mandating
11:39:10 people to hook up to the reclaimed water and the city
11:39:14 to see if they can't afford it.
11:39:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And Mr. Chairman, if I could modify
11:39:19 my motion so speak to speak to the clarified motion.
11:39:28 >>CHAIRMAN: Let's see what he's going to say first.
11:39:30 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Thank you, council members.
11:39:33 First of all, council has brought this up to us a
11:39:36 number of times, and as you know, we have now
11:39:39 scheduled at your May workshop a presentation on the
11:39:45 reclaimed master plan going forward.
11:39:47 There's a lot of these issues that we plan, have been

11:39:51 planning to address at that time.
11:39:54 We would ask that you allow us to do that.
11:39:56 I think we would have the best information and be able
11:39:58 to cover all of it with the proper background after
11:40:04 you have seen that presentation.
11:40:05 I realize timing is important here, and I realize we
11:40:08 are in the middle of this drought.
11:40:09 But I believe that we could have some good
11:40:12 recommendations for you at that time.
11:40:16 And again I realize what I'm asking is a little over a
11:40:20 month away.
11:40:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
11:40:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, the month away actually jives
11:40:26 perfectly with my motion because my motion says to
11:40:29 give legal department 30 days to draft this ordinance.
11:40:35 Charlie, you made the best point of the morning in
11:40:37 this regard, is that all taxpayers in the city have
11:40:42 subsidized reclaimed pipes in front of 8700 homes and
11:40:47 businesses in South Tampa.
11:40:48 All right.
11:40:49 And there's a little bit of unfairness but as a
11:40:53 community we often do that.

11:40:54 We subsidize something here, because we are a
11:40:57 community.
11:40:57 And we realize that those are the heavy users so
11:41:01 that's why you guys put Star 1 in where you did.
11:41:04 But that's water under the bridge, so to speak.
11:41:07 But the bottom line is now I'm offended to learn that
11:41:12 the taxpayers have subsidized the reclaimed pipes in
11:41:17 front of homes and businesses probably more than a
11:41:19 thousand of them that are continuing to water their
11:41:21 yards with drinking water.
11:41:24 Okay.
11:41:25 That is wrong.
11:41:27 If they have a reclaimed pipe in front of their house
11:41:30 and they are irrigating their yards with drinking
11:41:32 water, that needs to stop.
11:41:34 And that needs to stop at some point in time.
11:41:38 Okay.
11:41:38 Maybe six months is too quick.
11:41:40 Maybe we can't move that quick.
11:41:42 So my -- amended motion is let's work with staff or
11:41:49 city legal staff to come back at this May 28th
11:41:52 workshop, okay with, the proposed ordinance, that

11:41:55 would say, within a year, these folks who are watering
11:42:00 their yards, their yards with the irrigation system,
11:42:04 and they have a purple pipe in front of their house,
11:42:06 with reclaimed water, have to stop.
11:42:09 Okay?
11:42:09 And we'll have staff and legal figure out what the
11:42:12 best mechanism is for that to occur.
11:42:14 But I think this council needs to make a statement
11:42:17 today that this should be our policy.
11:42:20 Okay.
11:42:20 We have been very aggressive.
11:42:21 You guys, the six of you all have been very aggressive
11:42:24 on setting your own policy about water.
11:42:27 Different from the administration.
11:42:30 Keep on going, okay?
11:42:31 Let's continue to send that hard core message that we
11:42:36 are serious about these issues.
11:42:40 My motion, I'm looking for a second.
11:42:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder, are you going to hook
11:42:45 up?
11:42:46 Dinghy don't have it in front of my street.
11:42:49 It's a block away from my house.

11:42:52 Ravel Metcalf decided to stop short of my house.
11:42:56 >>GWEN MILLER: What about Mrs. Mulhern?
11:42:57 You said you have in the front of yours?
11:43:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But she doesn't water her yard.
11:43:02 >>CHAIRMAN: But you said to hook up.
11:43:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No.
11:43:04 Only people who water their yards if you have an
11:43:08 irrigation system.
11:43:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The question is, do we have a second?
11:43:11 If we don't have a second there's no need to continue
11:43:13 because it dies for lack of a second.
11:43:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think my motion seems very
11:43:18 reasonable that in 30 days, asking legal to come back
11:43:20 to us with that ordinance.
11:43:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second to the motion?
11:43:23 Is there a second to the motion in its 15 minutes till
11:43:27 12.
11:43:28 We have staff reports.
11:43:29 Then the motion will die for lack of a second.
11:43:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Then earlier, Mr. Chairman, I said
11:43:33 another motion.
11:43:34 My other motion is we direct legal staff to come back

11:43:37 at that May meeting with harsh financial penalties
11:43:41 associated with high-end water users.
11:43:43 We have two recommendations from SWFWMD this morning.
11:43:46 The first one died for lack of a second.
11:43:48 But this is a second one.
11:43:49 The second one is that we direct legal staff to come
11:43:51 back with harsh financial penalties for high-end us
11:43:55 what water users.
11:44:03 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I got calls this week.
11:44:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Mulhern had her hand up.
11:44:09 >>MARY MULHERN: I suggested the high-water surcharge.
11:44:12 But I think that Mr. Daignault suggested that we do at
11:44:18 the May workshop, I think if your motion is to direct
11:44:21 legal to come back with the surcharge on, I would
11:44:27 second that for them to come back at the workshop,
11:44:31 with recommendations with the reclaimed water thing.
11:44:35 I think that should just be something that they can
11:44:37 give us.
11:44:38 I would like to hear some data about how much you
11:44:40 would anticipate saving by doing that.
11:44:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: More facts, yeah.
11:44:45 >>MARY MULHERN: But I want to say a few things since

11:44:49 Mr. Moore is here, and since Mr. Miranda kind of
11:44:53 alluded to this with reclaimed water is not the
11:44:56 answer, really conservation and not using as much
11:45:01 water and figuring out how to use our water is really
11:45:05 the answer, and there are a lot of solutions, and I
11:45:07 hope that SWFWMD and the city are starting to look at
11:45:12 this, because I know that the irrigation industry is
11:45:15 doing low-flow irrigation systems for their sprinkler
11:45:20 systems.
11:45:20 I know that a lot of people are using rain barrels,
11:45:23 which is, you know, the best way to collect water,
11:45:26 because it's clean, and it's free.
11:45:29 And it comes from God, for that preacher if he's still
11:45:35 here.
11:45:35 There is also gray water systems which I think a lot
11:45:38 of people like me are starting to just save all our
11:45:41 roof water when we do dishes and water our gardens
11:45:44 with that.
11:45:45 And there's come post in toilets.
11:45:48 So there's all kinds of ways that we can really
11:45:52 conserve and there are ways that the private sector is
11:45:54 looking into.

11:45:55 So I think like education and emphasis on that.
11:45:58 I know, you know, the reality is that when don't make
11:46:01 money if we don't sell water.
11:46:03 But I think that people row rather save it and save
11:46:08 the planet and save our city.
11:46:10 That's all I wanted to say.
11:46:11 >>> Florida friendly landscaping.
11:46:15 Right place, right time.
11:46:17 I would introduce one of our board members Mr. Hugh
11:46:20 Grannon was here earlier and had to leave but he likes
11:46:23 to say plants don't wastewater, people do.
11:46:26 So there's a lot of merit to what you are saying, that
11:46:28 we really need to move towards Florida-friendly
11:46:32 landscaping.
11:46:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
11:46:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm somewhat amused to see you go
11:46:37 back and look historically at the last two weeks of
11:46:39 this council's debate on water, where individuals were
11:46:43 saying, show me the need, show me the emergency, show
11:46:47 me this, and those same individuals today are saying
11:46:49 we have to do -- go after the high water users.
11:46:54 Go after this, go after that.

11:46:55 And I'm telling myself, was I hear?
11:46:58 Or was I not listening well?
11:47:01 What was it?
11:47:02 So what I'm saying is, I'm not against anything that
11:47:05 was said.
11:47:06 But I want the city and yourself, sir, may I ask you
11:47:11 to work with the city to come up with a financial plan
11:47:14 that those that were asking can go into the layaway
11:47:18 program to pay more for the water so that the hookup
11:47:22 fee is paid without the rest of the city paying for
11:47:25 it?
11:47:27 I'm not against the idea.
11:47:28 I'm against the principle of the payment for the idea.
11:47:32 I don't buy into the program unless I can afford it.
11:47:38 I am never going to have reclaimed and I understand
11:47:40 that.
11:47:40 But there's still benefits to me and my community that
11:47:43 I live in for the great majority of us who are not
11:47:46 going to have it.
11:47:46 What I am saying is let's get together, let's work
11:47:48 something out, and let's create a distribution system
11:47:53 like no other, even greater than what Dunedin has.

11:47:57 We can have reclaimed.
11:47:58 There's one end of the paper that I saw from some
11:48:02 individual says I'll deliver you 2,000 gallons of
11:48:05 reclaimed water for $175.
11:48:08 Now if he can do it, what's wrong with us not doing
11:48:11 it? If that individual has that foresight, you can
11:48:14 get thousands of customers in this area to go by and
11:48:19 water their lawns.
11:48:20 People walk dogs for people.
11:48:22 People do things.
11:48:23 Take care of people.
11:48:25 People do a million different things.
11:48:26 And I'm still saying that we can have the ability to
11:48:30 deliver reclaimed water via vehicles.
11:48:33 And it doesn't take a general use to figure it.
11:48:36 And I'm not talking about you.
11:48:38 You are much smarter than I am, sir.
11:48:40 But again thank you.
11:48:41 And Brad, I would like to ask you one question, if I
11:48:43 may.
11:48:44 Have we had an increase in individuals applying to get
11:48:47 on the system?

11:48:49 And if so how much?
11:48:52 >>BRAD BAIRD: Tampa water department.
11:48:54 We have an increase of approximately four fold, four
11:48:57 times the number of people.
11:48:59 I think we are up in the neighborhood of 60 to 70
11:49:04 applicants for the reclaimed water system.
11:49:07 It's up significantly.
11:49:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 60 or 70 homes?
11:49:11 >>> Homes, residents, that's correct.
11:49:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So we are still short four or five
11:49:17 thousand.
11:49:17 >>BRAD BAIRD: Yes, we are still short 5,000 from the
11:49:21 original 8700 potential customers.
11:49:24 However, I would remind you that the original sign-up
11:49:28 amount was 5,200 folks.
11:49:33 And those 5,000 were the customers interested in
11:49:37 hooking up to the reclaimed water system.
11:49:39 In other words, they typically are people that use
11:49:42 water to irrigate their landscape.
11:49:46 And so it's those 2,000 customers that we need to
11:49:51 focus on.
11:49:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.

11:49:54 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Moore, is he still here?
11:50:01 Non-commercial pressure washing.
11:50:03 If someone wants to clean their deck and they are in
11:50:05 the process of selling their home, day okay, they have
11:50:08 to call a commercial person in to clean the deck?
11:50:11 >>> Yes.
11:50:11 >> Why can't they do it themselves?
11:50:13 >>> look -- when you look at the equipment, they are a
11:50:20 lot more efficient in their water use.
11:50:23 The restrictions calls for a ban on all pressure
11:50:26 washing.
11:50:26 When we did the economic analysis especially during
11:50:28 these times, it would have resulted in tens of
11:50:31 millions of dollars of lost revenue as well as
11:50:35 thousands of jobs.
11:50:36 And that's why our board continued commercial pressure
11:50:40 washing.
11:50:41 >> What type of pressure washing are they using?
11:50:44 A 3,000 PSI?
11:50:46 Or what are they using?
11:50:48 >>> I'm not an expert on that.
11:50:50 I just know my economist, when they looked at that

11:50:54 issue, they tend to use a lot less water, and it would
11:50:59 have been a tremendous economic hardship.
11:51:01 >> I have to disagree because I know someone who was
11:51:03 cleaning their driveway and the homeowners has
11:51:09 instituted a fine because they didn't do their
11:51:12 driveway.
11:51:13 And I don't think it's fair.
11:51:14 So I can go out tomorrow and get an occupational
11:51:17 license from the county to be a pressure washer for
11:51:20 $22 and I could be in business?
11:51:24 >>> Well, with all due respect, council member, you
11:51:27 know, again we are in a critical water shortage.
11:51:32 >>
11:51:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I understand that.
11:51:33 >>> And ask ourselves about the wisdom of pressure
11:51:37 washing a driveway during these tough times.
11:51:41 >> I understand that.
11:51:42 And I'm not blaming the homeowner.
11:51:44 I'm blaming the city for throwing all the reclaimed
11:51:46 water away in the bay, 55 million gallons a day, okay?
11:51:52 That's not fair.
11:51:53 It's not fair to the people in the northern part of my

11:51:55 district compared to the people down in Mr.
11:51:58 Dingfelder's district.
11:51:59 Why should I subsidize the reclaimed water down there
11:52:04 when we don't have water in the northern part of my
11:52:07 district?
11:52:07 It's not fair.
11:52:08 And that's what wave to be.
11:52:10 We have to be fair with everybody.
11:52:13 And another thing.
11:52:14 Wait a minute now.
11:52:16 Why is the Sports Authority watering their lawns, the
11:52:21 three golf courses with potable water?
11:52:24 I have had two phone calls this week.
11:52:25 They are not using reclaimed water.
11:52:28 >>> My understanding is golf courses have their own
11:52:31 wells.
11:52:32 They have their own wells.
11:52:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
11:52:34 >>> And most of them have their own permits.
11:52:37 What we are really concerned about here is are two
11:52:40 issues.
11:52:41 On a regional basis, we are concerned about the

11:52:44 environmental impacts of exceeding that many MGD,
11:52:47 trying to minimize the impacts in the north area of
11:52:50 Tampa.
11:52:52 In terms of Tampa itself, the issue is, the risk of
11:52:57 the reservoir in the middle Hillsborough River
11:53:00 dropping down to 16 and 15 feet.
11:53:03 Okay.
11:53:03 That's independent from somebody who has their own
11:53:06 well.
11:53:09 >>> Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
11:53:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We had a motion and second.
11:53:13 Mrs. Mulhern seconded my motion to direct legal staff
11:53:16 to come back to us at that May 28 meeting with a harsh
11:53:22 financial penalty for high end users.
11:53:25 We have all spoken to the.
11:53:26 Seemed like there was agreement to it.
11:53:27 Ms. Mulhern was kind enough to second the motion.
11:53:29 Thank you.
11:53:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern, did you second
11:53:35 that motion?
11:53:35 >>MARY MULHERN: I did.
11:53:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to speak to that.

11:53:38 I am not opposed to review.
11:53:39 I am opposed to a blanket operation within the city
11:53:43 saying we are going to charge those high-end users to
11:53:47 reduce potable. That's the main thing. It's not about
11:53:51 money in a way.
11:53:52 It's about reducing the potable use of water.
11:53:55 And if the city has no plans to have four, five trucks
11:53:58 out there, 2,000, 4,000, 5,000 gallons, you can't put
11:54:02 too much of that because of the weight load, water is
11:54:04 very heavy, and when you start doing this, you can
11:54:07 charge those individuals, reduce the amount of potable
11:54:12 water, and fix the problem without going and saying we
11:54:15 are going to charge you so much, and you still are
11:54:17 going to have the problem.
11:54:18 The problem is that if I have money, and I want to buy
11:54:22 myself shoes and pay 4, 5, 600, I don't care, I am
11:54:30 going to buy me my Ellis Edmond shoes which I have two
11:54:35 pairs that I bought for $10 each when Jacobson's
11:54:39 closed so that's another story.
11:54:41 But those that have it have the discretion of spending
11:54:43 it.
11:54:44 Those that don't, don't.

11:54:47 And, you know, I have nothing against those
11:54:49 individuals that have the money.
11:54:50 But at least I want to give them an opportunity to use
11:54:54 reclaimed water via vehicle delivery.
11:54:58 Therefore, to me, just to say I'm going to do this
11:55:01 right now, I'm not opposed to it.
11:55:04 But I think the city has to come halfway and say,
11:55:07 listen, we are going to charge you so much, why don't
11:55:10 you sign up to be a reclaimed user until the reclaimed
11:55:15 against gets there, there, and we are getting it ahead
11:55:19 because Mr. Daignault said it earlier, that within 30
11:55:21 days, sometime in May, we are going to have the
11:55:24 complete report, and that Star 1 and star 2 should go
11:55:29 away again and just call it Tampa reclaimed system,
11:55:33 PRS.
11:55:35 That way, you delineate from specific areas.
11:55:38 The next thing is, the reason Mr. Caetano's area
11:55:42 doesn't have reclaimed is when we looked at it back in
11:55:44 the year 2002 and so, the pipe alone to get it from
11:55:49 where the location is to New Tampa was over $120
11:55:54 million funding.
11:55:56 We tried different things.

11:55:57 We tried to work with Hillsborough County, with Pasco
11:55:59 County, to get it done.
11:56:03 And I know it's been around about their having their
11:56:08 treatment.
11:56:08 The problem is if you do that and isolate that system,
11:56:12 you create the same problem we have now, that takes
11:56:15 five houses to do reclaimed for one.
11:56:18 So I guess Mr. Caetano is going to have to explain to
11:56:21 the citizens which of the 80% is not going to get it
11:56:24 when they are high-end water users.
11:56:26 The only way they can get it is to work together with
11:56:29 all the agencies to create the money to get up to that
11:56:33 area which is the second highest water user in the
11:56:35 city.
11:56:36 I'll admit to that, to get that reclaimed there, and
11:56:39 lower that consumptive use so that the rest of us can
11:56:42 have the water.
11:56:44 There's a lot of jealousy going on on water, the City
11:56:47 of Tampa, has the lowest water rates, and that's
11:56:51 not -- it was done because we have the river.
11:56:54 But I know I have been talking on this and I
11:56:57 apologize.

11:56:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
11:56:59 Issue is not on our agenda next week, right?
11:57:04 >>CHAIRMAN: No.
11:57:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's three minutes to 12.
11:57:07 There's a motion on the floor.
11:57:08 All in favor of the motion signify by saying Aye.
11:57:11 Opposes?
11:57:14 >>THE CLERK: Miller, Scott, Miranda voting no.
11:57:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 3 to 3.
11:57:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's why our rules need to be dealt
11:57:28 with.
11:57:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Under the present rule 4-C as it now
11:57:32 exists --
11:57:34 >>GWEN MILLER: They have to come back.
11:57:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Our rules.
11:57:44 The motion will fail but that's our rules.
11:57:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I share with you that I had
11:57:49 discussion about ways to address this.
11:57:51 And I believe it will be a discussion.
11:57:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:57:54 We can deal with that later.
11:57:55 I'm trying to get through these staff reports because

11:57:57 it's 12:00.
11:57:58 So --
11:58:04 >>> If I could help the council in this regard.
11:58:06 We are going to be bringing something in that regard
11:58:08 also at the May workshop.
11:58:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's why I wanted to wait.
11:58:12 >>GWEN MILLER: And I wanted to wait, too.
11:58:14 That's why I voted no.
11:58:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can we take up item 71?
11:58:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You had suggested to too take up item
11:58:33 76.
11:58:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm aware of that.
11:58:36 Item 70.
11:58:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: To speed things up I'll move 70, 71
11:58:41 and 72, unless council wants to pull it and discuss
11:58:45 it.
11:58:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
11:58:46 I'm fine unless staff wants to make a presentation on
11:58:49 it.
11:58:50 I don't know.
11:58:52 These are good news items, moving forward on these.
11:58:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm sure we have all been briefed.

11:58:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Does staff need to say anything on
11:58:59 those items?
11:59:01 Okay, then you want to move 70, 71?
11:59:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That was my motion.
11:59:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 72?
11:59:08 Moved and seconded.
11:59:09 Item 70, 71 and 72.
11:59:12 Item 73, motion to continue.
11:59:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll defer item --
11:59:18 We need to continue that to May 7th.
11:59:21 Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
11:59:25 (Motion carried).
11:59:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I defer 74 to May 7th as well.
11:59:34 (Motion carried).
11:59:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 75 need to continue.
11:59:41 >> So moved.
11:59:42 >> Second.
11:59:42 (Motion carried).
11:59:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 76.
11:59:45 Solicitation.
11:59:47 Let's come back to that.
11:59:48 Let me come back to that.

11:59:49 That's going to be awhile.
11:59:50 Item 78.
11:59:55 Item 78 on the SBE ordinance.
11:59:58 >>> Gregory Hart, manager of small business and
12:00:02 minority business development office.
12:00:03 I want to provide you with an update on the progress
12:00:05 of two key program objectives addressed in our new
12:00:09 equal business opportunity ordinance, ordinance number
12:00:12 2008-89.
12:00:14 The first is appointment of the equal business
12:00:18 opportunity advisory committee which I refer to as
12:00:23 EBOAC, and secondly status on the data collection
12:00:24 process and time line for the first annual report
12:00:26 under the new business rules.
12:00:28 So I'll try to be brief quickly, just hit the
12:00:31 highlights.
12:00:31 With regard to EBOAC, equal business opportunity
12:00:36 advisory committee for the purposes of our viewing
12:00:38 public, let me just state that this is a citizen
12:00:40 advisory committee of 16 members, nine appointed by
12:00:44 the mayor and seven appointed by the City Council.
12:00:49 Members are to represent a cross-section of the

12:00:52 community.
12:00:52 We have developed for you the framework and a for
12:00:55 making those appointments.
12:00:57 We have developed an EBOAC charter to comply with the
12:01:02 ordinance in terms of what the committee's role is
12:01:05 going to be.
12:01:05 We have also developed an application questionnaire to
12:01:08 facilitate the solicitation selection process for the
12:01:12 mayor and City Council to make their appointments.
12:01:14 And we -- or I would suggest that the city clerk's
12:01:18 office serve as the intake for the council's
12:01:21 appointments, and solicitation acceptance of
12:01:24 applications.
12:01:26 With regard to the annual report, the methodology for
12:01:30 the annual report will be based on a 12-month period,
12:01:33 and reflect the city's fiscal year which runs October
12:01:37 1st through September 30th.
12:01:39 The administrative procedures and data collection
12:01:40 requirements are complete by my office.
12:01:44 We have the design of the automated management
12:01:46 information system to complete the reports is 90%
12:01:50 complete and we are entering the fiscal year '08

12:01:53 contract as I speak.
12:01:56 We will begin testing the integrity of that system
12:01:57 over the next several weeks.
12:01:59 All utilization reports will be ready for council's
12:02:02 first annual report in July 2009 as dictated by the
12:02:06 ordinance.
12:02:07 And lastly, and not necessarily lastly, but we are
12:02:10 also going to be providing semiannual reports.
12:02:12 And your first semiannual report will occur January
12:02:16 2010 and reflect the fiscal year 2009 data and
12:02:20 evaluation.
12:02:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me respond.
12:02:27 First, council, this is in response to the ordinance
12:02:29 that we passed, to the SPE, WMBE ordinance that we
12:02:36 passed.
12:02:37 So I met with Mr. Hart on this item so he's coming
12:02:42 back and we need to include in a motion for a workshop
12:02:45 I believe he said in July.
12:02:47 July for the first report and the following report
12:02:49 will be in January 2010.
12:02:51 So I would like to entertain a motion at this point
12:02:53 for the workshop to receive the information or the

12:02:56 data, for the July workshop.
12:02:59 Can we get a motion on that?
12:03:01 >>MARY MULHERN: I make that motion.
12:03:03 (off microphone) but I would like to ask for at the
12:03:08 next -- did you say July?
12:03:11 >> July workshop, report.
12:03:14 >>MARY MULHERN: When we have that workshop, we had
12:03:16 some questions.
12:03:18 A number of us went to East Tampa CRA and neighborhood
12:03:21 meeting the other night.
12:03:22 And there were some questions about some specific work
12:03:26 that was going on, some UCAP work, and also some work
12:03:31 in the CRA district on the retention ponds, and some
12:03:36 of the neighbors had questions about whether there was
12:03:41 the promised minority participation in that, the
12:03:53 people actually doing the work so if we could get a
12:03:55 July on that at the July meeting.
12:04:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Even the CRA is required to meet this
12:04:04 ordinance.
12:04:04 Am I not correct?
12:04:06 >>> Yes.
12:04:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Even the CRA areas.

12:04:08 Secondly, I have been talking -- tracking all these
12:04:12 different things, and I can go to my agenda and show
12:04:15 you what percentage have been WMBE and that sort of
12:04:18 thing so I have been pretty much tracking and
12:04:20 including that in the backup materials.
12:04:22 So I just want you all to be aware of that.
12:04:25 So I want you to be complimented on at lowest that
12:04:29 part of the report.
12:04:30 I think the report in July will help us more and in
12:04:35 January give us a full year of information.
12:04:36 >>MARY MULHERN: I think some of these are issues that
12:04:40 will come up with the advisory committee once we form
12:04:44 that.
12:04:45 But my question when they were saying this was that
12:04:50 you can look at the paperwork, but I'm wondering if we
12:04:53 have a mechanism to really make sure that they are
12:04:59 literally complying with the people that they are
12:05:02 hiring.
12:05:02 >>> Yes, we do independent verification on a sporadic
12:05:08 basis.
12:05:09 >>MARY MULHERN: A spot check?
12:05:11 >>> Yes.

12:05:11 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
12:05:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The workshop date for July?
12:05:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The workshop date, would be the
12:05:19 23rd.
12:05:20 I believe you can schedule it at 10:30 and be able to
12:05:23 fit it in.
12:05:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have some already?
12:05:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Right now, the date, downtown have it
12:05:29 scheduled.
12:05:29 You can correct this under new business.
12:05:31 But this appears as a date to discuss the appeals
12:05:33 process.
12:05:34 On the morning you have police Officer of the Month.
12:05:36 Firefighter of the quarter.
12:05:37 Then a workshop to discuss the appeals process.
12:05:40 And then at 10:00 to do a workshop to discuss the
12:05:44 draft of the technical manual, which you are going to
12:05:47 discuss today.
12:05:48 Then you have a CRA scheduled for 11 a.m.
12:05:50 So it's one of those.
12:05:51 It's because of the holiday schedule.
12:05:55 And you also have a night meeting.

12:05:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So 10:30?
12:05:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 10:30 would probably be good or 9:30
12:06:02 would probably be good.
12:06:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's do it 9:30.
12:06:06 So your motion will be 9:30.
12:06:07 >>MARY MULHERN: 9:30 workshop July 23rd.
12:06:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by Councilwoman
12:06:12 Miller for the workshop, July 23rd at 9:30.
12:06:15 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
12:06:20 Opposes?
12:06:20 Now, council, I talked to legal on this issue.
12:06:23 I do appreciate the administration's hard work on this
12:06:25 and their recommendation.
12:06:26 I just have one problem.
12:06:29 Talking about the Ybor committee, advisory committee,
12:06:36 and that is, because of the charter, and because I
12:06:40 have, I believe, a separation, leaving branch, they
12:06:46 have provided for us a listing of categories which in
12:06:50 my opinion that's our purview.
12:06:53 I appreciate their hard work.
12:06:54 But council has the responsibility of pointing its
12:06:57 seven members.

12:06:58 And they have broken down in specific categories.
12:07:01 We should determine that, how you want it done.
12:07:04 Because I may want two African-Americans, two
12:07:07 Hispanic, whatever, two females.
12:07:10 And when I looked at it, I said, hmmm, one citizen who
12:07:13 is a professional, one financial -- procurement
12:07:18 professional, one from the a surety industry.
12:07:20 I think if the administration wants that, they should
12:07:23 include that in their category and we should include
12:07:25 what we want in our category because somebody is going
12:07:27 to have a problem finding some of these folks.
12:07:31 So I want to make that observation.
12:07:33 So, legal, will you speak to that, please?
12:07:37 Because it is my understanding that the administration
12:07:38 has responded to appoint nine people.
12:07:40 We have responded to appoint seven.
12:07:45 I appreciate their work.
12:07:46 I appreciate the recommendation.
12:07:47 But I think a separation based on a charter,
12:07:52 separation of the executive branch, legislative
12:07:54 branch, we have a responsibility to appoint those
12:07:56 categories, identify those categories.

12:07:59 >>> Toyin Aina-Hargrett, legal department.
12:08:02 You are absolutely right, council, do you have that
12:08:05 opportunity to go ahead and select as you deem
12:08:07 appropriate.
12:08:07 The only guideline that we can provide for you is that
12:08:09 which is in the actual ordinance that we enacted, and
12:08:12 the underlying diversity study that this is based on
12:08:15 which is we are looking for a cross section, so the
12:08:17 information we provided to you was just a guideline to
12:08:19 help you in providing that cross section.
12:08:23 But you can go ahead and select as you deem
12:08:24 appropriate.
12:08:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And I appreciate that.
12:08:26 But I just want to make sure we understand because,
12:08:29 see, once you start accepting things, voting on
12:08:32 things, all of a sudden it becomes law almost.
12:08:35 And then you are stuck.
12:08:36 So I just want to make sure that I point out that one
12:08:42 minute issue.
12:08:43 >>MARY MULHERN: I noticed that, too, and I did talk to
12:08:45 Mr. Hart about it and he point out that it was wasn't
12:08:48 a requirement, it just said may.

12:08:51 But I agree with you, I don't think we really even
12:08:53 need that kind of direction.
12:08:55 It's up to us to decide.
12:08:57 And considering this is about women and minorities, I
12:09:01 think that's who we probably want to focus on putting
12:09:06 on our advisory committee.
12:09:08 I think that should be understood.
12:09:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, but again, Mr. Hart, I commend
12:09:14 you and your staff.
12:09:16 It's very good.
12:09:16 I like it.
12:09:17 I just had that one small issue.
12:09:19 And I think I reserved the right to be able to address
12:09:22 that because that's within council's purview.
12:09:25 >>MARY MULHERN: So do you suggest that he would just
12:09:27 cross that off in general?
12:09:30 >> Uh-huh.
12:09:31 I think we need to have some discussion as to who you
12:09:35 want to appoint and that sort of thing.
12:09:36 I think we need to file through.
12:09:38 The clerk advertised, I think those recommendations, I
12:09:41 think the application process is fine.

12:09:43 I just think that we need, within our own legislative
12:09:46 powers, that's who he would want to appoint.
12:09:49 >>MARY MULHERN: My feeling on that is that when could
12:09:52 just eliminate those categories, and as we do with
12:09:57 other -- I think we have other committees where we
12:09:59 don't have to have any kind of categories.
12:10:02 If we do the notice that we are looking for
12:10:04 volunteers, we make the decision by who applies for
12:10:08 it.
12:10:08 We tell the people that we think might be interested
12:10:10 to apply.
12:10:11 Do we -- I guess this is a question for you or legal.
12:10:16 Do we have to have categories?
12:10:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe Mrs. Aina-Hargrett said you
12:10:25 have to comply with the fact that you -- in order to
12:10:29 be a committee that makes recommendations that you act
12:10:33 upon, would need to represent a broad cross-section.
12:10:36 So obviously rather than delineate, you can see who
12:10:41 the applicants are when you constitute your board.
12:10:44 You can see whether or not you fulfill that
12:10:47 obligation.
12:10:49 >>MARY MULHERN: I think that's what I was trying to

12:10:51 say.
12:10:51 We know what we are looking for.
12:10:53 And once we have the applicants and we are going to
12:10:54 vote on them, that's the point where we make sure that
12:11:02 that they are all -- all representative.
12:11:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And I think administration take the
12:11:07 last two and put them in that category, and we take --
12:11:11 that would help us out trying to find those other
12:11:14 difficult areas.
12:11:16 They have staff.
12:11:17 We don't.
12:11:19 That's the difference.
12:11:21 Okay, yes.
12:11:21 >>> My only point was what the ordinance requires is
12:11:25 that it represent a cross-section of contractors,
12:11:29 service providers, and stakeholder organizations.
12:11:32 So as you are looking at this, you will want to keep
12:11:35 that in mind.
12:11:36 One way to do it is to identify categories up front so
12:11:39 you can recruit in those areas.
12:11:40 Another way would be to look at who you get and select
12:11:44 a cross section.

12:11:44 But would you want to make sure that your application
12:11:47 pool is not such that you can't get a representative
12:11:50 sample out of that group.
12:11:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:11:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, procedurally, I was
12:11:55 going to suggest that we could perhaps defer 79 and
12:11:59 82.
12:11:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let me finish.
12:12:08 We are still on this issue here.
12:12:10 How dough we want to proceed?
12:12:12 I guess we need to have some discussion about the
12:12:14 appointment of those individuals and the category.
12:12:18 Is that right?
12:12:25 >>> Yes.
12:12:25 I did provide for you the application questionnaire
12:12:27 which does prompt the applicant to indicate the
12:12:31 profession or nonvocational interest, so that when you
12:12:34 receive those applications, you can decide whether
12:12:39 some of those applicants fit some of your specific
12:12:45 desires and representation.
12:12:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Why don't we schedule this for
12:12:49 discussion for our next board meeting then?

12:12:51 Motion to discuss that on our next board meeting.
12:12:53 >>MARY MULHERN: CRA?
12:12:56 >> No, regular board meeting.
12:12:57 Our regular board meeting.
12:13:00 May 7, schedule it then to discuss the appointment
12:13:04 categories first, okay?
12:13:07 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll make that motion to discuss the
12:13:13 qualifications and categories for our advisory
12:13:20 committees equal business opportunity advisory.
12:13:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
12:13:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
12:13:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
12:13:29 All in favor?
12:13:31 Opposes?
12:13:32 Okay.
12:13:33 I'll need to get to Mrs. Miller.
12:13:35 >>> If I might quickly inform council how successful
12:13:39 we were with our WMBE program in the Super Bowl.
12:13:42 We had well over 130 local women and minority firms
12:13:47 participate, and through them, approximately 4 million
12:13:50 in contracts was procured.
12:13:52 We had a very good program, sir.

12:13:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you for bringing that back up.
12:13:57 I wanted to stress that because, again, I think
12:14:00 council, in my opinion, deserves a lot of that credit
12:14:02 because we had the Super Bowl task force come before
12:14:04 us, and we addressed that issue, you will recall.
12:14:07 And we had them report back to us.
12:14:09 So as a result of that, and staff needed to follow up
12:14:12 on that.
12:14:13 But I think as a result of my urging, your support and
12:14:15 your vote on that issue, we highlighted that as a
12:14:19 concern of ours.
12:14:20 And so that's one reason why it was very successful.
12:14:23 So thank you again, Mr. Hart.
12:14:25 Okay.
12:14:25 Item 79.
12:14:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's what I was suggesting.
12:14:28 I don't know if throws any urgency on 79 or 82 for Ms.
12:14:32 Miller and we could just defer those for two weeks.
12:14:35 >>CINDY MILLER: Mr. Chairman, if you want to defer to
12:14:38 your first meeting in May I will be happy to come back
12:14:40 on 79.
12:14:41 Regarding 82 we already have a workshop scheduled.

12:14:43 This is a transportation tech manual.
12:14:45 So that's scheduled for July 23rd.
12:14:47 We just wanted to point out.
12:14:51 July 23rd.
12:14:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Isn't this adoption, though?
12:14:55 >>CINDY MILLER: No, no.
12:14:56 It's there for you to see.
12:15:01 Make sure it was distributed early.
12:15:03 We wanted to make sure it got to council before it got
12:15:06 to the rest of the world.
12:15:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 79 you want to continue to when?
12:15:10 >>CINDY MILLER: Two weeks, I believe, you have a
12:15:12 retreat.
12:15:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: May 7th is the next regular
12:15:15 meeting.
12:15:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: May 7th.
12:15:23 (Motion carried).
12:15:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Strike 82?
12:15:26 Strike 82?
12:15:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
12:15:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Strike 82?
12:15:32 Is that by unanimous consent?

12:15:34 Strike 82 from the agenda?
12:15:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I guess accept the
12:15:38 memorandum.
12:15:38 That would be more appropriate.
12:15:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: These the workshop.
12:15:50 For the 23rd:
12:15:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is to receive the memorandum the
12:15:55 motion?
12:15:55 >> All in favor to receive signify by saying Aye.
12:15:58 Mulhern seconded that.
12:15:59 Okay.
12:16:00 What are our items?
12:16:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Number 80.
12:16:06 >>CHAIRMAN: Mr. Beard, number 71.
12:16:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do we have any more questions for
12:16:13 Brad?
12:16:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Number 26.
12:16:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to break for lunch.
12:16:19 We'll take up number 26.
12:16:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can we take a vote on that?
12:16:23 It's been dangling for a month or so.
12:16:28 You were kind enough to take it over.

12:16:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's take Mr. Brad Baird first.
12:16:32 >>BRAD BAIRD: It's my understanding item 26 was
12:16:36 pulled.
12:16:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then we are going to break for lunch.
12:16:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: About the only thing I was looking
12:16:42 for on 26, you are showing $4 million of the budget
12:16:45 moved within your department related to additional
12:16:48 purchase from Tampa Bay water, and increased chemical
12:16:51 costs.
12:16:52 How much of each approximately are we talking about?
12:16:57 And more specifically, how much extra water are we
12:17:01 buying over what we budgeted from Tampa Bay water as
12:17:05 related?
12:17:06 I assume as related to this drought?
12:17:08 >>BRAD BAIRD: Okay, yes, it is.
12:17:10 The Tampa Bay water budget was 4.4 million for fiscal
12:17:14 year '09.
12:17:17 The estimated expenditures at this point are 7.6
12:17:20 million.
12:17:23 We have spent 3.8 million to date.
12:17:25 So 3 million of the 4 million request for transfer is
12:17:32 associated with that.

12:17:34 With the Tampa Bay water purchase.
12:17:35 Then the other million dollars is associated with --
12:17:39 associated with chemicals, which we will need to come
12:17:41 back again in the summer when we get a better handle
12:17:44 on the chemical increases.
12:17:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I wanted to stress to folks who are
12:17:48 listening not only do we have environmental concerns,
12:17:52 public safety concerns about a water shortage, but
12:17:54 this is also an economic concern.
12:17:56 Because now the water department is $3 million over
12:17:59 budget, no fault of yours, Brad, but $3 million over
12:18:04 budget because we have to buy water that costs more
12:18:06 money when we buy it from Tampa Bay water as compared
12:18:08 to processing ourselves.
12:18:11 And ultimately next year you might have to come back
12:18:14 to us with a rate increase, possibly, not committing
12:18:18 to you that but it's a possibility that there might be
12:18:20 a rate increase to cover these type of overages so we
12:18:24 all have to conserve.
12:18:25 >>BRAD BAIRD: That's correct, except we do have a
12:18:29 Tampa Bay water pass-through that covers approximately
12:18:34 85 to 90% of those costs.

12:18:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So we already passed the increase.
12:18:40 But now folks will start feeling it on their water
12:18:42 bill.
12:18:42 >>BRAD BAIRD: That's correct.
12:18:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
12:18:46 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to move it.
12:18:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move it.
12:18:49 Thank you.
12:18:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
12:18:50 (Motion carried).
12:18:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 83 is a contract.
12:18:56 I think we need to take up as well and that gets staff
12:18:59 out of here.
12:19:05 >>> David long, contract administrator.
12:19:07 Our previous reason for continuing this has been
12:19:09 addressed.
12:19:10 We encourage to you go ahead and pass it.
12:19:12 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
12:19:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second?
12:19:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What number is that?
12:19:19 >> 83.
12:19:20 Moved and seconded.

12:19:21 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
12:19:25 Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
12:19:26 Okay.
12:19:27 Let's take 80 up at 1:45.
12:19:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I will not be here.
12:19:34 I would prefer to do it now.
12:19:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you all want to vote on it?
12:19:37 That's fine.
12:19:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I know we talked about this
12:19:47 earlier.
12:19:47 The Sports Authority, you guys have served on it, I
12:19:49 never have, has somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 or
12:19:53 fewer employees and the chief executive in the past
12:19:54 has been paid something in the neighborhood of
12:19:59 $200,000-plus.
12:20:03 This resolution from this council would just urge --
12:20:06 we have no authority but it would just urge that the
12:20:08 Sports Authority hire the new director at a salary
12:20:13 that's perhaps closer to the mayor's salary.
12:20:16 The mayor makes 150,000, is in charge of 4500
12:20:20 employees.
12:20:21 I think all of these salaries, all over the city, for

12:20:24 Executive Directors, has gotten out of control.
12:20:27 And so this is just a little message from the City of
12:20:29 Tampa, which contributes more than $1 million a year
12:20:34 of the Sports Authority city money that we would urge
12:20:37 them to bring that salary down, and they are going to
12:20:40 do what they want, but it's just to urge them to bring
12:20:42 that salary down.
12:20:43 I think it's a God message.
12:20:45 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: We have a good representative on
12:20:46 the board.
12:20:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think it's probably moot at this
12:20:50 point because the search committee has recommended
12:20:52 salary of between 140 and 107 to the full board at the
12:20:56 next meeting so I think that's kind of moot.
12:21:03 I can't support it because you are setting policies
12:21:05 for another agency.
12:21:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Recommending policy.
12:21:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, it doesn't say that.
12:21:16 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Who is the assistant person
12:21:17 there?
12:21:18 What do they make?
12:21:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Too much.

12:21:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 180, I think.
12:21:24 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: He's going to make more than the
12:21:26 mayor so you have to change the top two positions.
12:21:29 That would be our recommendation.
12:21:30 I make that a motion.
12:21:31 If you don't want to vote on it, Mr. Chairman, we have
12:21:33 four votes here.
12:21:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll second it except as a friendly
12:21:39 amendment.
12:21:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
12:21:41 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
12:21:43 Opposes, Nay.
12:21:45 >>THE CLERK: Scott and Mulhern voting no.
12:21:50 Miranda and Saul-Sena absent.
12:21:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moss fails.
12:21:52 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to tell a lot of people
12:21:55 how much money they make.
12:21:56 I just don't think --
12:21:58 3 to 2.
12:22:02 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Let's get Mr. Miranda.
12:22:03 He's out there giving an interview.
12:22:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The charter requires a vote of four,

12:22:09 either in favor or in opposition.
12:22:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Comes back in two weeks?
12:22:15 >> It actually comes back in three weeks, May 7th.
12:22:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then we stand adjourned till 1:45.
12:22:21 1:45.
12:22:22 We will reconvene at that time.
12:22:26 (City Council recessed at 12:23 p.m.)
















12:23:47 1:45 p.m. session.
13:50:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will come to order.
13:50:17 We have roll call.
13:50:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:50:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
13:50:20 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
13:50:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
13:50:24 Okay.
13:50:24 We pick up on item 76.
13:50:31 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
13:50:32 Item 76 is for solicitation of motor vehicles on the
13:50:38 public right-of-way.
13:50:39 The legal department has previously advised you that
13:50:41 we need to amend our current ordinance which is a
13:50:44 permitting scheme.
13:50:48 You have several options that have been previously
13:50:50 discussed.
13:50:50 You can rescind the current regulations.
13:50:53 If you do that we will be under Hillsborough counties
13:50:55 regulations were upheld in federal court in 1995.
13:50:58 In short, those prohibit solicitation, distribution,
13:51:01 and advertising on county roads, and prohibit

13:51:05 solicitation and distribution within four feet of
13:51:07 county roads.
13:51:09 You could also amend your ordinance to allow
13:51:12 solicitation.
13:51:14 You could amend your ordinance to enact a ban on all
13:51:17 solicitation.
13:51:17 Or could you amend your ordinance to allow
13:51:19 solicitation with some content neutral restrictions
13:51:24 such as hours of operation.
13:51:25 I'm available if you have any further questions.
13:51:30 >> Any other questions by council?
13:51:32 >> The only question is the two gentlemen who brought
13:51:34 this up are not here.
13:51:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How does the county regulate the
13:51:44 firefighters and those, Jerry's Kids and all that?
13:51:49 Because I see them still on county right-of-way
13:51:52 soliciting.
13:51:53 So I'm wondering how that works.
13:51:55 >>REBECCA KERT: That would be an enforcement issue.
13:52:00 Under the ordinance, all persons are prohibited from
13:52:04 soliciting.
13:52:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm hearing that but I still see on

13:52:08 county road solicitation by firefighters and others.
13:52:12 >>REBECCA KERT: I can't answer that any further than
13:52:17 what the ordinance says.
13:52:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I know what you are saying, it's not
13:52:24 being enforced is what you are saying, right?
13:52:27 >>REBECCA KERT: I would have to check with the
13:52:28 Hillsborough County attorney's office.
13:52:30 It's my understanding they believe the ordinance is
13:52:31 enforceable.
13:52:33 Whether or not there's an issue with that being
13:52:36 communicated.
13:52:38 >>
13:52:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's not the question.
13:52:40 I understand it's enforceable.
13:52:41 It's already been tested in the courts, right?
13:52:44 Upheld.
13:52:45 The issue is that you still have solicitation.
13:52:48 See, my concern is with the city, I don't have a
13:52:51 problem with the ban per se as long as there's some --
13:52:56 we have some guidelines, because we do know that the
13:53:00 firefighters, support of the Jerry's kids and muscular
13:53:06 dystrophy, and that sort of thing, serve it is

13:53:09 community well.
13:53:10 >>REBECCA KERT: To clarify, in the county when I say
13:53:12 county road, that's county.
13:53:14 They only regulate on county roads.
13:53:16 If there are any city roads that are in the county or
13:53:18 state roads, those are not governed by the ban.
13:53:22 >> It's not in the county.
13:53:24 Highway 60.
13:53:26 Right near the mall.
13:53:28 >>REBECCA KERT: That's correct.
13:53:29 But there are certain roads designated as county
13:53:32 roads.
13:53:33 Just because they are a road in the county.
13:53:35 I want to clarify that.
13:53:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
13:53:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
13:53:44 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: This is my ordinance that I am
13:53:46 proposing.
13:53:46 I do not want to hurt the Shriners, the firemen and
13:53:50 the charitable organizations, who are legitimate that
13:53:53 go out there.
13:53:54 And in talking to Ms. Kert this morning, and stand

13:54:00 there.
13:54:01 We need an amendment from our state legislators,
13:54:05 because evidently even newspaper distributors is
13:54:09 considered first amendment, freedom of speech.
13:54:13 Okay.
13:54:18 I don't know how we should continue with this, because
13:54:23 we need that regulation from the state first in order
13:54:29 for them to change the state regulations.
13:54:35 That would protect this ordinance.
13:54:40 So should we put it on the table till another time,
13:54:43 until we get --
13:54:45 You want to continue this item?
13:54:46 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would say let's continue it.
13:54:48 It needs some more studying.
13:54:51 Pinellas County has a complete ban.
13:54:53 No one, and I have their ordinance right here.
13:55:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Ms. Kert, I think I remember from the
13:55:06 last time we talked about it, and I think what you
13:55:08 were saying is that this would be to accept what the
13:55:13 county ordinance is for county roads?
13:55:16 Or are you asking -- is this to accept this -- or put
13:55:21 this in force on all city roads, too?

13:55:24 >>REBECCA KERT: What the legal department is asking
13:55:26 for is some direction from City Council.
13:55:29 Either of those would be legally defensible options.
13:55:31 We just need some direction.
13:55:32 And I just want to say that Mr. Caetano is correct, if
13:55:36 City Council did want to have a permitting scheme,
13:55:38 then it would be my recommendation that you not do
13:55:42 that unless there is a change in the state
13:55:43 legislature, because it's a state legislation that
13:55:47 causes a conflict with the constitution.
13:55:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, thank you.
13:55:57 You know, this sounds simple enough.
13:55:59 But when you start to look at the things that we have,
13:56:03 the Constitutional problem, the state legislature,
13:56:05 this council, Pinellas County, Hillsborough County,
13:56:09 the convolution of the facts become a little bit more
13:56:13 difficult to follow.
13:56:14 Do I like what we see all the time?
13:56:17 Absolutely not.
13:56:17 Do I know where the moneys are going when I see four,
13:56:22 five characters on one street corner, and various
13:56:24 parts of the city, with a can that's got an

13:56:27 organization of a name who I have never heard of?
13:56:30 I'm not saying the money is not going to that
13:56:32 charitable organization, but who knows?
13:56:35 What I am sure of that the Shriners when they do
13:56:41 theirs, and this came back up in the 70s, give free
13:56:44 care out of the moneys they collect to all children
13:56:47 who need it at All Children's Hospital, not only here
13:56:50 in Tampa, and Cincinnati, and Memphis and other
13:56:53 hospitals I believe they have.
13:56:56 Without a cost to those kids who really need it that
13:57:01 are burned in a bad way.
13:57:03 I would hate to pass that and close that on an
13:57:07 organization that depends on this on a vital thing
13:57:13 that is for kids to help them recover physically and
13:57:17 mentally.
13:57:19 The fire department, not only here but throughout the
13:57:22 state, does a lot of things for Jerry's kids, also for
13:57:25 the -- in the boot drive and this, that and the other.
13:57:29 On the other hand, you have people that might be
13:57:31 abusing.
13:57:33 And it used to be, if I remember, we thought it was
13:57:39 unconstitutional, you had to come to the city, get a

13:57:41 permit, have insurance to be able to do that.
13:57:45 And please advise me if I am incorrect, because I am
13:57:47 going on memory of 25 years ago.
13:57:52 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes, currently, in the past and
13:57:54 currently, you have a permitting -- you have a
13:57:56 permitting situation where people have to come to the
13:57:58 city to request a permit, and provide certain
13:58:01 documentation and insurance.
13:58:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And what's wrong with that?
13:58:07 >>> What's wrong with that is the state has a
13:58:09 requirement that if a local government has a
13:58:10 permitting system we have to exempt not-for-profit
13:58:12 organizations.
13:58:13 That was found to be unconstitutional in federal
13:58:16 court.
13:58:17 >> That's why I asked you that question, because now
13:58:20 everybody knows what's wrong.
13:58:23 They might have said that's Miranda talking but if an
13:58:27 attorney says it they know it.
13:58:28 So I'm saying I think we should hold this abeyance
13:58:33 till we see what happens in the legislature as was
13:58:35 mentioned by Mr. Caetano but let's see what the legal

13:58:38 department has in store for us.
13:58:45 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.
13:58:46 We certainly could take that approach, ask the
13:58:50 administration to add to their legislative agenda to
13:58:53 address this issue.
13:58:56 In the meantime, however, you had this issue of how we
13:59:00 are going to implement what we have on our books,
13:59:02 which is a process that councilman Miranda correctly
13:59:06 articulated, and so what I would suggest is that while
13:59:12 we do take that approach, if that's council's desire,
13:59:14 that we also go back and look at what we can do to
13:59:18 amend our ordinance to do what I'm hearing council,
13:59:21 which is to allow continued operations in the
13:59:24 right-of-way, within the legal constraints that we
13:59:26 have, and to see if we can come up with a solution in
13:59:31 the meantime that would allow us more direct control
13:59:35 over operations in the right-of-way.
13:59:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Fletcher, is that a request for a
13:59:42 motion from that, from council?
13:59:45 >>> If that's council's pleasure.
13:59:47 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I make that a motion, that legal
13:59:49 come back to us, how many days do you need?

13:59:53 Two days?
13:59:56 Come back with a legal opinion.
13:59:59 I have spoken to someone at Tallahassee today, and
14:00:02 they are going to try to do something on it.
14:00:04 I don't know how soon, because they will be adjourning
14:00:06 pretty soon.
14:00:10 But that would be my motion.
14:00:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second?
14:00:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not opposed to seconding the
14:00:15 motion.
14:00:15 I just think that -- I don't think you are going to
14:00:19 get anything done in the legislature this time, at
14:00:22 this period, and this late.
14:00:23 You have got to find sponsors, you have to find
14:00:26 co-sponsors, you have to find people in the house
14:00:27 that's going to talk to people in the Senate, people
14:00:29 in the Senate that are going to agree with people in
14:00:31 the house, and by that time, there would be an
14:00:37 election all over the world.
14:00:38 So what I'm saying is I'm not opposed to doing that,
14:00:41 I'm not opposed to asking the legal department to
14:00:43 maybe come up where a better solution than what we

14:00:44 have now, if possible.
14:00:45 I don't know if there is a remedy to this.
14:00:48 I know there's a lot of newspapers sold on the street.
14:00:52 And I'm not opposed to that.
14:00:53 And I'll tell you why.
14:00:57 People sometimes don't have the money to buy a
14:00:59 newspaper on a daily basis, but they'll buy it on a
14:01:02 Sunday because you have got coupons, you can go out
14:01:05 and buy things and paper for the paper itself.
14:01:07 So I don't wants to hurt the general public by doing
14:01:09 that.
14:01:12 And I'll support that motion.
14:01:14 I don't know how many more days the legal department
14:01:18 needs 60 days?
14:01:20 >>> 60 days is sufficient to come back with a
14:01:22 recommendation.
14:01:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So then the motion is moved by
14:01:25 councilman Caetano, that legal will come back with
14:01:28 some recommendation to address the issue from a legal
14:01:31 standpoint, right?
14:01:33 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: That's correct.
14:01:34 Based on the direction we heard today that there be

14:01:36 allowed continued operations in the right-of-way based
14:01:39 on the tradition of the city.
14:01:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
14:01:45 >>MARY MULHERN: I thought this was the legal
14:01:48 recommendation on what we were going to do.
14:01:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
14:01:53 >> No, ma'am.
14:01:53 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
14:01:55 I don't understand why we have to do anything.
14:01:58 Or why we want to do anything.
14:02:00 If we have already heard from the Supreme Court about
14:02:03 it.
14:02:03 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: The situation is we have code on
14:02:07 our books right now, kind of -- let me rephrase.
14:02:12 That we have a situation, we have a state statute that
14:02:14 says if we have a permitting process that we have to
14:02:16 exempt not for profit businesses.
14:02:19 Not for profit entities.
14:02:20 We have a federal court decision that says that you
14:02:22 have to treat everybody the same.
14:02:24 You can't exempt some folks.
14:02:26 So we have a city ordinance that track it is state

14:02:33 process where we would have permitting, but we are
14:02:37 kind of caught between the federal court decision and
14:02:40 the state law.
14:02:40 >>MARY MULHERN: The permitting people now?
14:02:44 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes, ma'am.
14:02:46 >>MARY MULHERN: I didn't realize that.
14:02:47 Sorry.
14:02:47 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: So my recommendation is if we are
14:02:50 going to continue to try to come up with a process at
14:02:54 the state level, or advocate for across the state
14:02:57 level, that in the meantime, we take a look and see if
14:03:00 there's any way to recraft our ordinance so that it
14:03:04 fits within the legal constraints that we have.
14:03:16 >>MARY MULHERN: Thanks.
14:03:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We all must admit that we are facing
14:03:19 some very difficult times economically, and I said I
14:03:25 think last year that you haven't seen anything yet.
14:03:28 Wait till people start trying to make a living by
14:03:30 doing things in the right-of-way.
14:03:31 And it's here.
14:03:32 Some of those people are selling papers to cars.
14:03:36 That's their only means of income.

14:03:40 And they are passing me on Hillsborough selling
14:03:43 bottled water.
14:03:47 It's tough.
14:03:50 People trying to make a living.
14:03:52 It's really rough for a lot of people.
14:03:54 And you know what?
14:03:55 I sympathize with them.
14:03:57 I sympathize with them because you know what?
14:04:00 They are trying to at least do it honest.
14:04:03 I would much rather have them in the right-of-way
14:04:06 trying to make an honest living than breaking in my
14:04:09 house and my car.
14:04:10 I'll tell you that.
14:04:13 Okay.
14:04:14 There's a motion on the floor.
14:04:15 All in favor of the motion signify by saying Aye.
14:04:18 Opposes?
14:04:20 Item 81.
14:04:29 Item 81.
14:04:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Caetano?
14:04:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's a request for the legal
14:05:04 department.

14:05:12 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.
14:05:14 We have looked at the types of statutes that are in
14:05:16 place, processes in place for dealing with
14:05:18 equalization of streetlights, assessments, and there's
14:05:24 a couple things, just in terms of background I would
14:05:28 like to provide.
14:05:28 One is the way the state statute is set up right now
14:05:31 on this issue, in effect, there's not an articulated
14:05:36 process, but what is fairly clear is that the any
14:05:39 equalization would need to be done throughout the City
14:05:44 Council.
14:05:45 So in essence unless we put a process in place, you
14:05:47 all as the City Council would be acting as
14:05:50 equalization.
14:05:54 That said, the equalization that would need to occur
14:06:01 at a subsequent date would essentially be a new
14:06:04 establishment of the assessment.
14:06:06 You would have to basically go back through the entire
14:06:08 process, because what happens is one individual or two
14:06:12 individuals has an assessment, is believed to be
14:06:15 unequitable, you need to readjust the entire
14:06:18 assessment process methodology to correct that

14:06:22 inequity, if it is inequitable.
14:06:28 To meet the statutory requirements, we would basically
14:06:31 have to go through the assessment process, really
14:06:34 completely anew, although once it's been done it will
14:06:39 be a little faster, not quite as intensive from what
14:06:42 we understand.
14:06:44 If council would like to establish a process to deal
14:06:47 with these issues, we would recommend that we look at
14:06:51 something similar to what is in place presently for
14:06:53 stormwater assessments, where when there's a request
14:06:56 made, it goes to designated staff people, they review
14:07:00 it, then take action, or make recommendation to either
14:07:04 hearing officer, or council as a whole, any of those
14:07:09 processes are appropriate.
14:07:11 Essentially we would be following the state statute
14:07:14 that originally governed the assessment.
14:07:17 We would have to follow the same rules and basically
14:07:19 establish the assessment anew to address any
14:07:26 inequities that have been identified or alleged by
14:07:29 persons seeking to have equalization occur.
14:07:36 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Fletcher, who would be on
14:07:38 this board?

14:07:39 It would be the City Council?
14:07:41 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: That's up to you all.
14:07:43 As I indicated, the state statute -- well, does not
14:07:47 set out a process for equalization.
14:07:49 It does reference that the governing body in this case
14:07:53 the City Council would act on any equalizations.
14:07:56 So you would have the authority to either retain that
14:08:01 as the City Council, you could create a separate
14:08:04 board, you could delegate that to a staff person if
14:08:08 you so chose, or hearing officer.
14:08:11 So there's a wide range of options there.
14:08:13 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: In talking with Ms. Washington
14:08:16 today as I have in the past, she does recommend some
14:08:22 type of organization to oversee this because of the
14:08:25 inequities that exist in the streetlighting districts.
14:08:28 I mean, there are some people who are paying 11.12 a
14:08:33 year for lighting, and they use the same lights that
14:08:36 someone else is paying $800 a year.
14:08:39 So it needs to be equalized.
14:08:42 And that's the whole reason for this ordinance, if you
14:08:44 want to call it an ordinance.
14:08:47 It Ms. Washington could be in charge of that

14:08:51 department, because that's her district.
14:08:54 And perhaps some members of the City Council would be
14:08:56 on it.
14:08:57 And maybe some people at-large from the city.
14:09:02 But we need some sort of equalization, so that some
14:09:08 people are not paying the major freight.
14:09:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
14:09:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to, in my mind,
14:09:16 formulate what exactly the distribution, or the best
14:09:23 distribution of assets are.
14:09:24 If you start in an area where you have a CDC and they
14:09:28 in essence started something and wanted something and
14:09:31 created something and are paying for whatever they
14:09:34 started and created, and then across the street
14:09:39 there's not a lighting district but there's county
14:09:43 roads or -- I don't exactly understand the whole
14:09:47 formula for this, because I don't think there is a
14:09:49 formula for this.
14:09:50 So what we are saying is, I move in somewhere, and I
14:09:56 have homeowner dues, lighting dues, and all these kind
14:09:59 of dues, and when I bought my house the only thing I
14:10:03 didn't bring he with me is the honey-do.

14:10:06 I brought everything, all the dues with me.
14:10:09 So now that I'm there I'm paying.
14:10:11 What is it we are talking about?
14:10:14 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I may, Mr. Chairman.
14:10:15 This typically would come into place where you have an
14:10:18 existing assessment district, as you indicated would
14:10:20 be set up by a developer or a CDD or some other
14:10:26 mechanism, for ease of discussion, say there was 100
14:10:31 homes in that particular district.
14:10:32 If there's someone that was outside that district,
14:10:36 whatever they are paying or how that would work really
14:10:38 wouldn't probably fit into the equalization analysis.
14:10:41 But if for some reason the original methodology
14:10:45 created some type of disparate treatment within that
14:10:51 group of 100 people, say whatever reason the way the
14:10:54 methodology works out is paying twice what everybody
14:10:57 else is paying, that person that's paying twice could
14:10:59 come in and say you need to redistribute it.
14:11:02 By the nature of an equalization, there will be some
14:11:04 people within that group that will pay more and
14:11:07 potentially some people that will pay less, and
14:11:09 actually from research it looks like there's some risk

14:11:13 that everybody can end up being charged slightly more
14:11:15 or less, depending on what the actual cost turns out
14:11:19 to be.
14:11:19 So for that area, because the idea is that the actual
14:11:25 costs get paid passed on to the people within the
14:11:28 assessment district, balanced based on the benefit to
14:11:32 their property.
14:11:32 That's the legal principle is they pay for the benefit
14:11:36 they receive equitably within the group.
14:11:40 So it does happen where they change over time.
14:11:42 But it should be equitable throughout the entire
14:11:45 process.
14:11:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understood what you said because
14:11:49 you are a very brilliant attorney.
14:11:51 Within that scope of that hundred that you talked
14:11:54 about, are you specifically trying to say that some
14:11:57 properties are larger than others within that
14:11:59 district, and therefore that's why they pay more
14:12:03 without you saying that?
14:12:05 >>> That would be one factor, yes.
14:12:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So how are we going to equalize it?
14:12:10 We aren't going to cut the house in half.

14:12:11 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: No, but in those units if half of
14:12:15 them are double lots, then those double lots
14:12:17 potentially would pay more.
14:12:20 >> I understand that point and I wasn't trying to be
14:12:22 cute with you but I have to get some form of formula
14:12:24 in my mind to understand equalization process.
14:12:28 And I think you spoke to it very fairly.
14:12:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
14:12:35 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Miranda, let me clarify for
14:12:38 you.
14:12:39 In one particular subdivision there are nine homes on
14:12:42 a street.
14:12:43 Okay?
14:12:43 It is a large plat.
14:12:47 Only nine homes.
14:12:48 The road runs to the -- the plat runs to Tampa Palms
14:12:52 Boulevard, then it intersects at Palm Springs
14:12:55 Boulevard.
14:12:56 Now, it is a large plat, but there's only nine homes,
14:12:58 because it's all wetlands.
14:13:00 But there are 25 streetlights that are not actually
14:13:07 available to those residents.

14:13:08 Everybody uses it.
14:13:10 It's a feeder road.
14:13:11 Tampa Palms Boulevard is a feeder road and so is Palm
14:13:14 Springs Boulevard a feeder road.
14:13:16 It feeds a community.
14:13:20 But the community that's involved with the five
14:13:22 streetlights, nine homes, is paying the freight for
14:13:25 that whole plat.
14:13:27 And that was done by the developer when he came in,
14:13:30 because he wasn't going to be there that long.
14:13:31 He built his model, and he says, fine, I'll pay for
14:13:35 it.
14:13:35 He paid for it for three years then he's gone.
14:13:38 And now in Tampa Palms area one and two, the CDD paid
14:13:43 for the streetlights for 20 years.
14:13:46 That 20 years is over now.
14:13:48 And that's being paid by the City of Tampa.
14:13:54 That was a 20-year agreement and it's over.
14:13:57 So the City of Tampa is paying for those streetlights
14:14:00 in those communities, except within the gated
14:14:03 communities.
14:14:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand.

14:14:07 City of Tampa is paying for streetlights all over the
14:14:10 city.
14:14:10 That's not an exception to the rule.
14:14:12 I also agree that the City of Tampa should not be
14:14:14 paying for streetlights in a gated community.
14:14:17 >> No, right.
14:14:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I understand what you said now
14:14:23 about pass-through, that part, wetlands and nine
14:14:26 homes, I get a little confused there.
14:14:29 But other people are using the road and therefore they
14:14:32 should pay.
14:14:32 I don't know what documents they sign at the time they
14:14:35 bought their houses.
14:14:35 I don't know that.
14:14:36 I'm not against it.
14:14:37 I just don't know enough about it.
14:14:40 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Well, Mrs. Washington feels it
14:14:43 could be rectified through equalization.
14:14:45 And she has worked on it.
14:14:48 She has given me probably a 30-page document.
14:14:51 I think we have some 12 or 13 lighting districts in
14:14:54 this particular area.

14:14:56 And each lighting district is a different assessment.
14:14:59 Anywhere from $700 a year to $11.12.
14:15:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What's the pleasure of council?
14:15:10 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I move that we adopt this
14:15:15 equalization board, and Ms. Washington, who is an
14:15:19 engineer, who works with the lighting districts, knows
14:15:21 all the ins and outs and she has some recommendations
14:15:25 on how this can be rectified.
14:15:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You request for the legal department
14:15:38 or the administration to begin the process to create
14:15:41 this board?
14:15:42 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: If that's what needs to happen,
14:15:44 yes.
14:15:44 >> We would need to draft an ordinance and work with
14:15:47 the appropriate city staff to develop a process and
14:15:52 come back with a recommendation.
14:15:54 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: With a recommendation.
14:15:57 Fine.
14:15:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is there going to be an appeal
14:16:00 process to this, if somebody doesn't like it? I would
14:16:03 hate to see any member of council sitting on a board
14:16:05 that something is going to get appealed back to the

14:16:07 council.
14:16:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't want to serve on it.
14:16:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't want to serve on it either.
14:16:12 That's two of us.
14:16:16 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We can create a process that has
14:16:20 an appeal that is not to council.
14:16:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion.
14:16:24 Is there a second?
14:16:28 Is there a second?
14:16:29 I guess not.
14:16:31 Dies for lack of a second.
14:16:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The reason I didn't support a
14:16:34 second is I need a chart to show me something that's
14:16:37 going to happen and I don't know what's going to
14:16:40 happen, just to create a board.
14:16:42 I don't know.
14:16:42 I don't have that much information.
14:16:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 69.
14:16:52 This is a public hearing.
14:16:53 Move need to move to open the public hearing.
14:16:56 >> So moved.
14:16:57 >> Second.

14:16:57 (Motion carried).
14:17:01 >>
14:17:05 >>TOYIN AINA HARGRETT: Does anyone have nip questions
14:17:07 on this ordinance?
14:17:08 >> Does anyone wish to address council on item 69?
14:17:12 Motion to close?
14:17:12 >>CHAIRMAN: Move to close.
14:17:21 >>TOYIN AINA HARGRETT: This ordinance makes a
14:17:22 modification to 11-7-11-8, a previous amendment.
14:17:30 What we are doing is rectifying that by allowing the
14:17:32 fire marshal the authority to have arrest ability, and
14:17:36 also providing them with the ability to do
14:17:38 investigations for fire.
14:17:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close.
14:17:45 >> So moved.
14:17:46 >> Second.
14:17:46 (Motion carried).
14:17:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:17:50 Councilman Miranda.
14:17:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance for first
14:17:53 reading, an ordinance of the City of Tampa amending
14:17:56 Chapter 11 City of Tampa code of ordinances providing

14:17:58 for repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing
14:18:00 for severability, providing an effective date.
14:18:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Second.
14:18:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Miller.
14:18:08 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:18:10 Opposed same sign.
14:18:12 THE CLERK: I just need to know if second hearing on
14:18:15 this ordinance will be held on April 30th, 5:30.
14:18:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: April 30.
14:18:24 We go to our 9:30 items.
14:18:27 The motion to open.
14:18:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: For purposes of the record you are
14:18:32 going to take up item 63 through 68?
14:18:40 >> Yes.
14:18:41 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:18:43 Opposes?
14:18:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry for interrupting.
14:18:46 A couple of points.
14:18:47 I believe you have some items to receive and file that
14:18:50 have been available for public inspection.
14:18:52 Nothing?
14:18:52 That being the case, if you would swear in the

14:18:54 witnesses, please.
14:18:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Those who will address council please
14:18:56 stand.
14:18:59 Anyone that's going to be talking, addressing,
14:19:01 speaking to council, stand and be sworn.
14:19:06 (Oath administered by Clerk)
14:19:16 Item 63.
14:19:17 Anyone that wishes to address council on item 63?
14:19:22 >>CHAIRMAN: Move to close.
14:19:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
14:19:24 (Motion carried).
14:19:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Miller, item 63.
14:19:28 >>GWEN MILLER: An ordinance for second reading to be
14:19:31 adopted, an ordinance vacating, closing,
14:19:32 discontinuing, and abandoning a certain right-of-way,
14:19:37 a portion of west Powhatan Avenue lying south of Henry
14:19:41 Avenue, north of west Comanche Avenue, east of Lois
14:19:44 Avenue and west of north church Avenue, lying in
14:19:47 section 33, township 28 south, range 18 east in the
14:19:51 City of Tampa, Hillsborough County Florida, the same
14:19:53 being more fully described in section 2 hereof,
14:19:56 providing an effective date.

14:19:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
14:19:59 Moved and seconded.
14:20:00 Record your vote, please.
14:20:10 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being
14:20:12 absent.
14:20:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 646789 anyone wishing to address
14:20:15 council on item 64.
14:20:17 Anyone wishing to address council on item 64.
14:20:20 >>CHAIRMAN: Move to close.
14:20:21 >> Second.
14:20:22 (Motion carried).
14:20:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 64.
14:20:24 Councilman Miranda.
14:20:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14:20:28 Presenting ordinance for adoption for second reading.
14:20:31 An ordinance vacating, closing, discontinuing,
14:20:33 abandoning a certain right-of-way, a portion of
14:20:36 8th Avenue, 6th Avenue, 5th Avenue,
14:20:38 1st Avenue, and an extension of 30th street
14:20:41 lying south of 9th Avenue north of Adamo Drive
14:20:45 east of 30th street and west of 31st street in
14:20:49 Powell's addition in east Ybor and in EL-VALLE

14:20:55 de Tampa, a subdivision located in the City of Tampa,
14:20:58 Hillsborough County Florida the same being more fully
14:21:01 described in section 2 hereof providing an effective
14:21:02 date.
14:21:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
14:21:05 Record your vote, please.
14:21:09 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being
14:21:11 absent.
14:21:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 65.
14:21:13 Anyone wishing to address council on item 65.
14:21:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
14:21:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
14:21:20 (Motion carried).
14:21:23 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented
14:21:25 for second reading and adoption, an ordinance of the
14:21:28 city of Tampa, Florida amending City of Tampa
14:21:30 ordinances 2005-233 and 2006-322 amending the
14:21:36 boundaries of the New Port Tampa Bay community
14:21:38 development district providing for contraction of the
14:21:41 boundaries of the district by removing parcels of land
14:21:44 that will not be served by the district, which will
14:21:47 result in a net loss 1.11 acres MOL for a total of 53

14:21:54 .016 acres comprising the district and situated
14:21:58 entirely within the boundaries of the City of Tampa,
14:22:00 Hillsborough County, Florida, the said district being
14:22:02 generally located near the intersection of Gandy
14:22:03 Boulevard and South Westshore Boulevard, the
14:22:06 contracted boundary being more particularly described
14:22:08 in section 2 hereof, pursuant to chapter 190, Florida
14:22:12 statutes, repealing all ordinances in conflict,
14:22:15 providing for severability, providing an effective
14:22:16 date.
14:22:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question?
14:22:26 Mr. Fletcher, this is a slight amendment of the
14:22:28 boundaries of the New Port Tampa Bay CBD project.
14:22:34 As we all know the New Port project hit a wall in
14:22:39 terms of the economic climate, the real estate
14:22:43 climate, and nothing has happened out there.
14:22:45 What happens to a CDD if nothing gets developed?
14:22:47 I mean, after awhile, does it expire on its own
14:22:50 volition?
14:22:51 You might have help coming down the way, I don't know.
14:22:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We closed the public hearing.
14:23:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, the question, will the

14:23:05 answer affect your vote?
14:23:06 Do you want to take up the question after this vote is
14:23:08 taken?
14:23:09 Or do you want -- well --
14:23:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll take it up afterwards.
14:23:13 But I am curious of the answer.
14:23:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Okay.
14:23:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I didn't realize we had closed.
14:23:21 We can go ahead and vote.
14:23:22 I would like the question answered afterwards.
14:23:24 Thank you.
14:23:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
14:23:27 Miranda.
14:23:28 Record your vote.
14:23:32 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being
14:23:34 absent.
14:23:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
14:23:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, Mr. Fletcher?
14:23:38 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: To be honest with you, I think it
14:23:46 depends on the terms of the CDD that was created, so
14:23:48 it may vary.
14:23:49 But typically this is a special district that

14:23:51 continues in perpetuity.
14:23:52 So unless the terms of the CDD are such that it
14:23:55 expires through its own accord it would continue to --
14:23:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I know they have annual recording
14:24:01 requirements.
14:24:02 Is this your CDD, counsel?
14:24:04 Can you give us any prognosis on that issue?
14:24:07 I'm sure you probably had this issue before in your
14:24:11 several decades of CDD work.
14:24:13 >>>
14:24:15 >>> Mark Straley: Yes, I have.
14:24:20 As commissioner Dingfelder outlined the project has
14:24:22 hit a brick wall.
14:24:24 At this juncture there is a large mortgage held by
14:24:26 Bank of America that's in the process of foreclosure.
14:24:31 The CDD bonds are also in default.
14:24:33 And of course they enjoy the same lien priority as
14:24:36 ad valorem taxes.
14:24:38 So the district potentially is going to be filing a
14:24:41 foreclosure action on behalf of the bondholders.
14:24:44 The project is on the market for sale, and it will
14:24:47 either be a bank situation in which the bank is trying

14:24:50 to sell the project after foreclosure, or if the
14:24:55 bondholders end up owning it, they will likewise seek
14:24:59 to market it.
14:25:00 Of course, the CDD, in its financial issues, have no
14:25:04 bearing on zoning or other regulatory matters.
14:25:08 >> CDD gives an annual report to council, that sort of
14:25:13 thing.
14:25:13 >>> Yes.
14:25:14 >> Do those activities continue just sort of
14:25:17 pretending that something is going on there?
14:25:19 >>> Well, we are mowing the site and making sure that
14:25:23 we comply with the city code, with respect to that,
14:25:26 and other than that just hoping the market turns
14:25:29 around.
14:25:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 66.
14:25:34 Anyone wishing to address council on item 66?
14:25:37 Anyone wishing to address council on item 66?
14:25:40 Yes, ma'am.
14:25:41 >>> Good afternoon.
14:25:42 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.
14:25:46 Item 66, 67 and 68 all required certified site plans.
14:25:50 These plans have been certified by the zoning

14:25:52 administrator, have been provided to the clerk.
14:25:54 I have copies of these plans if you have any
14:25:56 questions.
14:25:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:25:59 Motion to close?
14:26:00 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
14:26:01 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
14:26:03 (Motion carried).
14:26:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
14:26:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move the following ordinance
14:26:09 for second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning
14:26:12 property in the general vicinity of 513 South Florida
14:26:15 Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
14:26:17 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
14:26:19 district classification CBD2 central business district
14:26:22 hotel to CBD2 central business district hotel, with
14:26:26 accessory meeting room, office and retail uses,
14:26:29 providing an effective date.
14:26:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
14:26:33 Miranda.
14:26:33 Record your vote.
14:26:39 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being

14:26:40 absent.
14:26:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 67.
14:26:44 Item 67.
14:26:45 Anyone wishing to address council on item 67?
14:26:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Moved to close.
14:26:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
14:26:52 (Motion carried)
14:26:54 Councilman Caetano, item 67.
14:26:56 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance being presented for
14:26:59 second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning
14:27:01 property in the general vicinity of 1315 east 5th
14:27:05 Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
14:27:07 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
14:27:09 district classifications YC-9 Ybor City, mixed use,
14:27:14 multifamily, residential, professional office, retail,
14:27:17 to YC-9, Ybor City, mix use, multifamily, residential,
14:27:22 professional office, retail and hotel, providing an
14:27:24 effective date.
14:27:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved by councilman Caetano, seconded
14:27:28 by councilman Miranda.
14:27:31 Record your vote.
14:27:33 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being

14:27:36 absent.
14:27:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 68.
14:27:39 Anyone here to address council on item 68?
14:27:45 Item 68.
14:27:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
14:27:48 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
14:27:50 (Motion carried).
14:27:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Miller, item 68.
14:27:53 >>GWEN MILLER: I move to adopt the following ordinance
14:27:55 upon second reading, an ordinance rezoning property in
14:27:57 the general vicinity of 2802 east Azeele street in the
14:28:01 city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly described
14:28:03 in section 1 from zoning district classifications PD,
14:28:06 planned development, mixed use office, to PD, planned
14:28:10 development, medical office, providing an effective
14:28:12 date.
14:28:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
14:28:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
14:28:17 Record your owe vote, please.
14:28:26 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being
14:28:27 absent.
14:28:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to open a public hearing for --

14:28:37 continue item 84.
14:28:39 Need a motion to continue that item.
14:28:42 >> So moved to continue item 84 to June 4th.
14:28:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, petitioner's representative
14:28:51 is here, and also this is as a result of a letter that
14:28:54 was received from Mr. Bentley.
14:29:00 I'm sorry, wrong case.
14:29:01 Forgive me.
14:29:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Continue to June 4.
14:29:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Does anyone from the public wish to
14:29:08 address council on this continuance?
14:29:15 Or from the public?
14:29:16 Moved and seconded.
14:29:17 All in favor?
14:29:18 Opposes?
14:29:18 (Motion carried)
14:29:22 We need to open the public hearing on 85.
14:29:26 >> So moved.
14:29:27 >> Second.
14:29:27 (Motion carried).
14:29:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 85.
14:29:36 >>THE CLERK: Any witnesses would have to be sworn in.

14:29:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here that's not been sworn?
14:29:40 Everybody has been sworn in?
14:29:41 Okay.
14:29:47 Anyone wishing to address council on 85?
14:29:50 >> Move to close.
14:29:52 >> Second.
14:29:52 (Motion carried).
14:29:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance providing special
14:29:58 use S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales small venue by
14:30:01 making lawful the sale containing alcohol by more than
14:30:04 1% by weight not more than 14 by weight and wines
14:30:08 regardless of alcoholic content beer and wine for
14:30:10 consumption off premises in a sealed container for
14:30:12 consumption off premises at or from certain lot, plot
14:30:15 or tract of land located at 17004, Tampa, Florida more
14:30:21 particularly described in section 2 thereof approving
14:30:23 waivers waiving certain restrictions as distance based
14:30:26 upon certain findings providing for repeal to all
14:30:29 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
14:30:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
14:30:34 Dingfelder.
14:30:34 Yes, sir.

14:30:34 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to put an amendment
14:30:37 on there.
14:30:42 >>CHAIRMAN: You can't put an amendment on it.
14:30:56 Oh.
14:30:56 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What are the conditions?
14:30:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: My mind tells me it was 11:00
14:31:01 o'clock certain dates, 2:00 on certain dates.
14:31:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Need to open back the public hearing?
14:31:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second to open the public hearing.
14:31:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
14:31:16 >>ERIC COTTON: Land Development Coordination.
14:31:19 The conditions that were on here were to close
14:31:20 midnight Sunday through Thursday, 2 a.m. on Friday and
14:31:24 Saturday, no outdoor music on the deck, or the outside
14:31:29 would be allowed at all, and it would be serving food,
14:31:37 serving meals or food.
14:31:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
14:31:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
14:31:42 >> Second.
14:31:42 (Motion carried).
14:31:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion has been made and seconded
14:31:46 by councilman Dingfelder.

14:31:47 Record your vote.
14:31:49 Motion made by councilman Miranda.
14:31:55 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena voting --
14:31:58 Saul-Sena being absent.
14:32:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 86 is a -- we need to continue
14:32:05 that to June 4th.
14:32:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Anyone from the public?
14:32:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's already continued.
14:32:17 Anyone from the public wish to discuss this
14:32:21 continuance from the public?
14:32:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mrs. Pollack is here representing the
14:32:27 appellant, if I get my parties correct, and I have
14:32:33 also reviewed correspondence from Mr. Bentley, and it
14:32:36 appears, council, that the best date that is available
14:32:39 would be June 4th, 2009.
14:32:43 You have a morning meeting.
14:32:44 You have no night meeting.
14:32:46 It would be my recommendation this be set for 1:30 in
14:32:49 the afternoon.
14:32:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 2011.
14:32:58 [ Laughter ]
14:32:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is that acceptable for you, Mrs.

14:33:01 Pollack?
14:33:04 >>> I think June 4 is fine.
14:33:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
14:33:12 Opposes?
14:33:12 Okay.
14:33:15 I believe that completes our agenda for the day.
14:33:18 Do we have items that need to come before us?
14:33:23 New business?
14:33:24 Council councilman Caetano?
14:33:26 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.
14:33:28 I would like a report from the building department for
14:33:39 the next meeting on the motion that was before us this
14:33:41 morning, on the building, if they were collecting X
14:33:55 amount of dollars, and with the increase that took
14:33:57 place in January, how much are they now collecting and
14:33:59 how many permits?
14:34:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When do you want that?
14:34:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Before the next meeting.
14:34:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I thought that came up earlier when
14:34:10 Mrs. Miller was here.
14:34:11 She said we would have to -- we didn't vote on that?
14:34:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Miller said she was going to

14:34:21 get the March figures and bring them back to us when
14:34:23 they came in.
14:34:27 To come back and make a report.
14:34:31 >> 18 months.
14:34:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I thought she said at the end of
14:34:34 March, she would have something back before council,
14:34:37 at the end of May.
14:34:38 I mean, yeah, April.
14:34:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Want to hear about it in June, the
14:34:44 first meeting in June?
14:34:45 >> I guess they have to compile it.
14:34:53 That's all.
14:34:54 >> Yes, they have to get information.
14:35:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: First meeting in May.
14:35:10 Want to do it the first meeting in May?
14:35:12 We are going to do whatever you want.
14:35:13 What do you want, Joe?
14:35:15 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The first meeting in May.
14:35:19 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Second.
14:35:20 (Motion carried).
14:35:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Miller.
14:35:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

14:35:24 As we know, the Sports Authority is going to be
14:35:26 searching for a new director, and I would like to have
14:35:29 a resolution made, put together by our attorneys that
14:35:36 no board members past or present can apply for that
14:35:39 position.
14:35:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm never against that since I have
14:35:44 never been a board member:
14:35:46 >>CHAIRMAN: No Sports Authority board.
14:35:53 >>MARY MULHERN: Good, I can still apply.
14:35:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Resolution from City Council.
14:36:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: They are going to love you, Ms.
14:36:05 Miller.
14:36:05 >>GWEN MILLER: That's okay.
14:36:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I second the motion.
14:36:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
14:36:10 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:36:13 That means they have to come back and wave to take a
14:36:15 look at it.
14:36:16 We are requesting legal to come back.
14:36:18 >>CHAIRMAN: A resolution, yes.
14:36:20 And
14:36:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm sorry.

14:36:29 Any opposition?
14:36:33 >>THE CLERK: Dingfelder and Mulhern voting no.
14:36:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I am not going to support it
14:36:41 coming back.
14:36:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Then what are we waiting for?
14:36:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't think anybody is going to
14:36:55 apply on the board anyway.
14:36:59 >>CHAIRMAN: It doesn't matter if they apply.
14:37:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I just have a problem when it comes to
14:37:06 public policy that we regulate another agency.
14:37:08 That's just -- I'm just saying.
14:37:11 I have a problem with that.
14:37:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I may speak to that,
14:37:17 Mr. Chairman.
14:37:17 I understand the wording of Mrs. Miller.
14:37:19 She wants to make sure there was no hoop-de-ha to name
14:37:25 someone of their own, maybe.
14:37:26 I'm not saying there is.
14:37:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess I could support the motion,
14:37:34 Mrs. Miller, if it was sort of recent, you know what I
14:37:37 mean?
14:37:38 If you said, well, somebody that's been on the board

14:37:40 in the last, you know, couple of years, then I agree.
14:37:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Continue for a couple of years then.
14:37:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I could vote for that.
14:37:51 Because if somebody was on the board ten years ago.
14:37:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
14:37:55 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: How about the gentleman that's
14:38:02 second in charge?
14:38:03 Could he apply?
14:38:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's not a board, that's a staff
14:38:07 person.
14:38:08 If you make that an as amendment to your motion, the
14:38:10 last two years?
14:38:11 And I'll second it and vote for it.
14:38:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We voted.
14:38:23 It was already carried.
14:38:25 It carried last time.
14:38:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Attorney Mark Bentley's mother passed
14:38:35 and we would like to send out sympathy to his family
14:38:37 and keep them in our prayers.
14:38:39 Mark Bentley, his mother passed.
14:38:43 >> Second.
14:38:47 >>CHAIRMAN: No motion.

14:38:51 I just want the public to know that that she passed
14:38:54 and arrangements are going to be made later.
14:38:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14:38:58 I apologize to my colleagues.
14:39:00 The Spanish media asked me how the out to ask if I
14:39:03 knew anyone else who could speak to them, and
14:39:06 evidently the only one was me.
14:39:08 So I had to speak to the immediate media when 82 was
14:39:11 being heard.
14:39:12 I want to caution us, what we passed in the standard
14:39:18 transportation manual, there's an item 3 on page 7
14:39:21 that talks about standard sidewalk constructions to be
14:39:24 a minimum of five feet wide.
14:39:26 And I understand that.
14:39:27 But what I am saying is, when there's a tree, when
14:39:32 there's a fire hydrant, and what this is, that means
14:39:35 there will be no adjustment to four feet so they can
14:39:38 facilitate and make the turn.
14:39:40 The city itself has done some sidewalks, and you can
14:39:42 believe me, look down the Bayshore Boulevard on the
14:39:45 west side, and they go around trees and everything
14:39:47 else.

14:39:48 But that means a homeowner won't be able to do the
14:39:51 same thing, and they are going to be forced to put
14:39:53 that money into a trust fund, and somebody else is
14:39:56 going to have a sidewalk, and they want a sidewalk,
14:39:58 and they can't get it.
14:39:59 And I'm sorry, I apologize to you for that.
14:40:01 And I'm just asking to review that at a later date,
14:40:06 because that might be something we may want changed.
14:40:08 I'm not saying we should.
14:40:10 I'm saying we have to look at it no wider scope than
14:40:14 just a presentation that was given.
14:40:16 I have no qualms with anything else about the
14:40:19 thickness and the PSIs, but if you have a change,
14:40:23 and you have a fire hydrant, that means you can't go
14:40:25 to four and a half feet.
14:40:27 You can't put a sidewalk down and you are going to get
14:40:29 charged, and it's not fair to that homeowner.
14:40:32 That's all I'm saying.
14:40:38 I would like to bring it back.
14:40:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We didn't approve it.
14:40:42 Apparent reply that was just for transmittal and they
14:40:44 are coming back to us at a later date to actually

14:40:46 approve the document.
14:40:50 >>THE CLERK: You have a workshop on July 23rd.
14:40:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
14:40:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
14:40:55 >>MARY MULHERN: It was a long time ago but this
14:40:58 morning there was a group of students from USF that
14:41:01 spoke about green jobs and the environment.
14:41:06 And I want to thank them for coming.
14:41:08 One of them was Shri Wong who has been interning for
14:41:14 me and they are very impressed with the amount of work
14:41:16 and community involvement they have while still
14:41:20 working on their undergraduate degrees.
14:41:21 But I wanted to mention, because they didn't a get
14:41:26 chance to and I didn't either, that they have
14:41:28 organized an earth fest that is happening this
14:41:31 Saturday at sweetwater organic farm from 9 a.m. to 4
14:41:38 p.m.
14:41:39 I think everyone on council received an invitation to
14:41:43 this.
14:41:43 But I just wanted to point it out and hopefully some
14:41:46 people will be able to attend.
14:41:48 They are having a community dialogue, community Expo,

14:41:52 a green market, ecofriendly products, community mural
14:41:56 project, volunteer activities, question-and-answer
14:41:58 session, nature-based activities.
14:42:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:42:09 Councilman Dingfelder.
14:42:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: One of the most enjoyable things
14:42:13 that I do associated with being on council is to go to
14:42:18 eagle scout ceremonies.
14:42:19 I'm sure the rest of you attend some, too.
14:42:22 I'm proud for the Bornick family, Bruce Bornick is the
14:42:30 father and the son is Michael Alan Bornick of troop
14:42:35 53, obtained the rank of eagle scout January 20, tween
14:42:39 2009 and a formal ceremony is April 18th, 2009.
14:42:44 I would like to give a commendation, with your
14:42:47 blessing.
14:42:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
14:42:50 (Motion carried)
14:42:52 Anything else?
14:42:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to receive and file.
14:42:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I have one.
14:43:00 The electric vehicles.
14:43:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I thought that got continued or

14:43:05 something.
14:43:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We put it on new business.
14:43:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I appreciate it.
14:43:10 What do they call them, NEVs, neighborhood electric
14:43:14 vehicles, the discussion that came to council, then it
14:43:17 bounced over to the public transportation commission,
14:43:19 which I serve on that for council.
14:43:25 PTC attorney is of the opinion that right now PTC does
14:43:29 not have jurisdiction over the NEVs and I won't go
14:43:36 into that.
14:43:39 We already have an ordinance apparently on our books
14:43:42 where we slightly regulate horse-drawn carriages, like
14:43:47 if somebody does a little event downtown and they have
14:43:50 like Central Park, you know, that sort of thing,
14:43:52 horse-drawn carriages, or the rickshaws where the
14:43:59 athletic young men and women, you know, drive people
14:44:01 through the streets apparently.
14:44:03 We have had that in the past.
14:44:04 And so we regulate those.
14:44:06 Not a lot of regulation but a little bit.
14:44:10 On the NEV, the issue is -- and I won't go into too
14:44:14 much detail -- but the issue is apparently the NEVs

14:44:17 have been seen traveling sort of all over the place.
14:44:20 Originally, they said, let's just bring them downtown.
14:44:24 The next thing you know they are over in Hyde Park.
14:44:26 Next thing you know somebody spotted them over at
14:44:28 Westshore mall and International Plaza.
14:44:32 And they are not very safe, as you can observe.
14:44:34 They have no metal around them.
14:44:37 So people are concerned about safety.
14:44:40 So when I raise it at PCC I said, okay, I'll bring it
14:44:47 back to council, I think it's something we can
14:44:48 regulate slightly if we choose to, but I want to get
14:44:51 more input from the various people, the people who run
14:44:55 the NEVs, because I think they are good, they are
14:44:59 environmentally friendly, and I think we should
14:45:02 encourage them in the appropriate places.
14:45:05 But I think we should discourage them and regulate
14:45:07 them so they don't go to the inappropriate places that
14:45:09 are too far from downtown.
14:45:11 So with that said, what I would like to do is probably
14:45:14 spend a couple of months chatting with the various
14:45:19 interests, including the taxicab industry, the folks
14:45:23 who operate the NEVs, the downtown partnership,

14:45:26 maybe the Howard Avenue business people, and then come
14:45:29 back to council in a few months with some perhaps
14:45:34 suggestions possibly an ordinance to address this
14:45:37 issue.
14:45:41 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, I brought this up actually
14:45:44 because I had a taxi driver who bent my ear about it
14:45:47 last year about the fact that they were driving
14:45:51 downtown, and it really wasn't safe.
14:45:54 But it's also the fact that they are cutting into
14:45:59 their business, and I think it's kind of a thing of
14:46:03 the future, and I think it is -- it should be a public
14:46:07 transportation commission.
14:46:08 I don't think we should be, you know, doing anything
14:46:13 about public transportation or vehicles.
14:46:16 And I think there's just going to be more and more.
14:46:18 They are golf carts basically.
14:46:20 They are environmentally friendly.
14:46:21 And there's going to be more and more of it and it's
14:46:25 not necessarily bad.
14:46:26 But I don't think it's in our purview.
14:46:29 I think you should go back to the PTC and say deal
14:46:34 with it.

14:46:34 >> The only way they deal with it is if they go to the
14:46:37 legislature and have their statute amended which can't
14:46:39 happen this year, might happen next year, et cetera,
14:46:41 et cetera.
14:46:42 In the meantime, we have got sort of an unregulated
14:46:45 group running around doing this.
14:46:50 I'll listen to council, whatever your direction is.
14:46:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like to get a legal opinion
14:46:59 from our attorney.
14:47:00 Do we have the right to regulate something over and
14:47:03 above what the PTC, public trance transportation
14:47:07 committee has?
14:47:07 And the reason I ask this, I don't see -- and I'm not
14:47:11 in disagreement or in agreement with anything that's
14:47:13 been said, but what I want to see is, if I was one of
14:47:16 the owners that was being derived of some revenues or
14:47:24 cab companies, I would buy ten of these things and put
14:47:26 them on the street just like they do, and have
14:47:28 competition.
14:47:30 This didn't start last night or the night before.
14:47:34 This has been going on for awhile, for a long time.
14:47:37 In fact I tried to bay one the other day.

14:47:39 I really did.
14:47:41 And they wanted between six to eight thousand dollars
14:47:44 for a used one out there.
14:47:49 Yep.
14:47:51 And I came out with a 79 Thunderbird.
14:47:54 So I wouldn't from an electric car to an antique car
14:47:58 in five minutes.
14:47:59 So what I'm saying is that if we could -- I am going
14:48:03 to bring it next week, I think.
14:48:05 What I'm saying is, do we have the right to go over
14:48:09 and above the TPC?
14:48:11 I don't know that and that's why I'm asking for this
14:48:14 opinion.
14:48:14 They have their rules and regulation.
14:48:17 This body was set up years ago to handle that.
14:48:20 I sat on that in my previous years.
14:48:24 They are a great organization that licenses people,
14:48:27 regulate people, and try to straighten out the good
14:48:30 from the bad and the ugly.
14:48:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Fletcher, the city attorney just
14:48:37 came in.
14:48:37 You asked a very good question and I am not familiar

14:48:40 with the legislation, the special act that created the
14:48:43 PTC and what its role is so I cannot say whether the
14:48:47 regulation of this would interfere, and whether if the
14:48:52 PTC has jurisdiction that the city is preempting.
14:48:56 So maybe Mr. Fletcher, who is more familiar with this
14:48:58 issue, would perhaps know the answer and can be
14:49:01 brought back to council.
14:49:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I could also help because I have
14:49:04 the opinion from the county attorney on the issue.
14:49:08 Bottom line is, well respected, Ben been over at the
14:49:14 county attorney's office for years, did a lot of
14:49:17 research and he said right now understood the PTC
14:49:19 statute the PTC has no jurisdiction whatsoever because
14:49:22 any of the operators do not take fares.
14:49:25 Okay?
14:49:26 They accept tips.
14:49:28 Okay.
14:49:29 But just concluded that a tip is not a fare.
14:49:33 So he has concluded they don't have jurisdiction right
14:49:36 now.
14:49:36 So I'm not going to answer your legal question, Mr.
14:49:40 Miranda, but I just want to inform you of what his

14:49:42 opinion was.
14:49:43 And I'm sorry, Mr. Fletcher.
14:49:44 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.
14:49:47 I do have a copy of Mr. Press' opinion.
14:49:51 Based on my understanding of the way these vehicles
14:49:54 operate, I think he's correct and I would concur with
14:49:58 that.
14:49:58 So then the question would be, how we would handle it
14:50:02 in some other venue in the city.
14:50:08 I don't know the answer to that.
14:50:09 I certainly would be happy to research it.
14:50:11 But that would be the question for you all is how you
14:50:16 want to address this.
14:50:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The question to come, if you do this,
14:50:21 who is going to regulate it?
14:50:23 Who is going to enforce it?
14:50:25 Keep in mind, we have a $2 million shortfall already.
14:50:29 So you are talking about adding staff, talking about
14:50:31 somebody to regulate it, talking about somebody to
14:50:33 permit it, talking about somebody who is going to
14:50:35 enforce it.
14:50:36 So you have to be careful.

14:50:37 Because next we are going to start regulating these
14:50:39 people on two-seater bicycles who are transporting
14:50:43 people and all that.
14:50:45 You have to be careful what you ask for.
14:50:47 >>GWEN MILLER: My question is, is it a taxi cab or
14:50:52 mobile -- what?
14:50:56 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: My understanding from what we have
14:50:57 seen so far is that the TPC regulates vehicles for
14:51:02 hire, where you pay to use that vehicle for transport.
14:51:05 Because these vehicles do not charge a fee for the
14:51:09 transport they are not covered under that
14:51:10 jurisdiction.
14:51:12 So they are regulated by state law in terms of where
14:51:15 they can go and where they can operate, because of the
14:51:19 type of vehicle that they are, so there is that level
14:51:21 of regulation already.
14:51:23 I'm not sure what other level of regulation the city
14:51:26 would want to put on them, but they are outside of, I
14:51:31 guess, business -- the concept of the business that
14:51:34 they are operating.
14:51:36 They are not being regulated by the city other than
14:51:38 business tax.

14:51:39 I is assume they are paying a business tax license.
14:51:41 >> So does the state authorize them to be able to use
14:51:44 it in running the city?
14:51:47 >>> No.
14:51:48 >>> We did report on that previously that talks about
14:51:50 these types of vehicles where they can drive and where
14:51:52 they can't drive based on certain safety criteria and
14:51:54 the speed limit allowed on the roads.
14:51:57 The statute doesn't speak to carrying people within a
14:52:02 certain area but speaks to where they can drive.
14:52:08 >>MARY MULHERN: I think it definitely doesn't belong
14:52:12 here.
14:52:12 It's either transportation, it really sounds like a
14:52:15 state thing to me.
14:52:16 There's a lot of -- I'm sure there's a lot of cities
14:52:20 in Florida.
14:52:20 I mean, we have golf carts all over the place, in the
14:52:25 Housing Authority, and the apartments, and seniors
14:52:30 homes, and we can't wade into that.
14:52:33 So I don't know where it belongs but it's certainly
14:52:35 not here.
14:52:35 It probably doesn't belong in the county either.

14:52:37 Probably the state needs to deal with there being more
14:52:42 and more golf carts that aren't only necessarily fit
14:52:47 but who is enforcing it?
14:52:49 It's not like anybody is enforcing even the safety
14:52:51 laws, I don't think, are they?
14:52:54 >>> Yes, the police department does that.
14:52:55 And when we were asked to look at this before I looked
14:52:58 at the state statute and consulted with the police
14:53:00 department, and looked at how that was done.
14:53:04 I am not aware of any citations being issued but the
14:53:07 law enforcement is aware of the requirements, and has
14:53:09 been aware of that, and not aware of any violations or
14:53:16 citations for that.
14:53:17 >> The idea of them getting tips instead of fees seems
14:53:20 like something that could be legally questioned, too.
14:53:23 I mean, that whether they should be regulated like a
14:53:27 cab companies, too, I think that's a question but it's
14:53:31 not for us.
14:53:36 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: My understanding from press
14:53:37 reports is they advertise revenue based on advertising
14:53:40 and then the operator gets tips on top of that.
14:53:42 That's the business model that was reported, at least.

14:53:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder, then councilman
14:53:48 Caetano, then Miranda.
14:53:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was asking Mr. Shelby if co-look
14:53:52 up the petty cab/horse drawn statute.
14:54:00 It's already on our books.
14:54:01 I haven't had a chance to look at it.
14:54:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm looking at section 192 which is
14:54:08 regarding nonmotorized vehicles and rates to be
14:54:10 charged and there's a section on watering of horses,
14:54:14 and load limitations, and the like.
14:54:18 And I just turned to it now.
14:54:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think the bottom line, I am not
14:54:24 trying to set up a bureaucracy, Mr. Chairman.
14:54:27 Apparently -- how many did they say, Joe?
14:54:31 There's 13 or 16?
14:54:34 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: There's more and more being added
14:54:36 all the time.
14:54:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There's 12 or 16.
14:54:40 There's 600 taxicabs so it's not like this is a huge
14:54:43 problem.
14:54:43 But I think it's a growing concern to the extent that
14:54:45 they are stringing out the geographical boundaries

14:54:48 that I think they were originally intended.
14:54:51 And Mr. Fletcher is correct.
14:54:52 The Florida statutes says they are not allowed on
14:54:54 roads in excess of 35 miles an hour, posted roads in
14:54:57 excess of 35 miles an hour.
14:54:59 But apparently they have been breaking that a little
14:55:01 bit, too.
14:55:02 So it's one of those things, give them an inch and
14:55:04 they want to take a mile.
14:55:06 So, you know, all I'm saying -- I'm not saying we
14:55:09 should do anything today.
14:55:10 What I'm saying is maybe we can throw it to staff and
14:55:12 legal.
14:55:14 If would you like me to work on it with them, fine.
14:55:17 If you don't, that's fine, too -- to see if it's
14:55:20 appropriate for us to perhaps get into it.
14:55:22 The PTC does not have jurisdiction.
14:55:26 They don't.
14:55:26 And so if we just let it go, then nobody is going to
14:55:30 have jurisdiction, and these things are just going to
14:55:32 happen, and there might be an accident, and then we'll
14:55:35 all feel bad, you know, et cetera, et cetera.

14:55:37 I would rather us get a little handle on it.
14:55:39 Plus there's a big question about insurance.
14:55:42 And nobody is regular really regulating and checking
14:55:45 to see if they are insured like they are supposed to
14:55:47 be.
14:55:48 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I serve on that committee with
14:55:50 John, and there's been a lot of talk about this.
14:55:53 And I believe, in my opinion, I think that we will
14:55:59 probably send our lobbyist to Tallahassee to enact
14:56:02 some rules and regulations pertaining, as we do with
14:56:05 the taxicabs, and everybody else that we regulate.
14:56:08 I don't think we should be regulating it here.
14:56:12 You get the opinion from everybody, Mr. Dingfelder,
14:56:14 that they want some sort of regulation on the board?
14:56:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, except my concern is they
14:56:21 might overregulate it and kill it.
14:56:25 And I don't think that's it eat because I think they
14:56:29 do serve a useful purpose limited to the appropriate
14:56:31 place.
14:56:32 I agree with you, I think the direction of TPC might
14:56:37 be regulated.
14:56:38 >> In listening to the owner, he says he doesn't

14:56:41 collect anything.
14:56:42 No guy is going to put up a $10,000 vehicle, whatever
14:56:45 those things cost, and let the driver work on tips.
14:56:50 This is how they work, strictly on tips.
14:56:52 And I understand they are at the international mall.
14:56:56 They are all over.
14:56:57 They will sit in front of a hotel when some guy is
14:57:00 coming out of the hotel that wants to go somewhere and
14:57:02 the cab is sitting there who is legitimate, but there
14:57:05 is no regulation on these.
14:57:07 And I think we need to regulate them in the Public
14:57:10 Service Commission.
14:57:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I just think that the area that
14:57:15 needs to do that would be the TPC, and this is where
14:57:18 as a council person I wouldn't mind asking the PTC to
14:57:21 look at or recommending that they take the appropriate
14:57:24 action to do whatever they need to do for the state
14:57:27 legislature.
14:57:28 I don't have a problem with asking them to look at
14:57:32 what they should be doing with these as opposed to us
14:57:34 doing it.
14:57:35 I just don't think we should do it.

14:57:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All right.
14:57:39 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: John will make the next motion
14:57:41 and I'll second at the next meeting.
14:57:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We'll let them know those council's
14:57:45 opinion.
14:57:46 It's sorts of a ping-pong ball but it's back in TPC's
14:57:50 court.
14:57:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I want to request a commendation,
14:57:52 recognizing May 1st as global love day.
14:57:59 >> Love the love.
14:58:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just flow into the rest of the
14:58:03 world.
14:58:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A nonprofit, the love foundation, Inc.
14:58:10 So we'll hold hands.
14:58:16 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:58:19 All in favor?
14:58:20 Opposed, Nay?
14:58:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Technology is changing so rapidly
14:58:25 in this field of transportation.
14:58:28 Who says that within five years we won't have a
14:58:30 vehicle that does 50 miles an hour, 60 miles an hour
14:58:35 without an electric motor?

14:58:37 So what I'm saying to these companies that are in the
14:58:39 business, they have to keep up with the same
14:58:43 technology.
14:58:45 The first time I see one of them rabbits walking
14:58:47 around here carrying people in for tips, I would have
14:58:50 ten of them out there going for tips.
14:58:52 Because the only thing we can regulate is puts an
14:58:56 ankle bracelet on the car and make sure it doesn't go
14:58:59 outside the perimeter or something.
14:59:01 I don't know what to tell you.
14:59:06 What I'm saying is, I agree something has to be done
14:59:08 for the act of fairness.
14:59:10 But I don't think this is the body to do it.
14:59:13 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: A little tracking device you can
14:59:15 put under your car, it's about 69 bucks and you hook
14:59:18 it up to your computer and you can tell where that
14:59:20 tracking device is.
14:59:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Good.
14:59:25 I'm glad you are going to keep up with it.
14:59:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to receive and file.
14:59:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
14:59:32 >> Second.

14:59:33 (Motion carried).
14:59:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: One more item.
14:59:36 Clerk?
14:59:37 >>THE CLERK: We had on the agenda a request to
14:59:39 schedule with MOSI to appear before council on May
14:59:43 7th to make the announcement of the recipient of
14:59:45 the 2009 national Hispanic person of the year.
14:59:51 >> So moved.
14:59:53 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
14:59:54 (Motion carried).
14:59:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other business to come before
14:59:57 council?
14:59:58 Any other business?
14:59:59 Okay, then, anyone from the public wish to address
15:00:02 council?
15:00:03 Public comment?
15:00:05 (City Council meeting adjourned at 3:00 p.m.)
15:01:57

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