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Thursday, May 21, 2009
9:00 a.m. session

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[Sounding gavel]
09:05:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
09:05:06 order.
09:05:08 The chair will yield to the honorable Joseph Caetano.
09:05:16 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Representative for district 7.
09:05:18 Good morning.
09:05:19 This morning we have the honor of Mr. Jim Crew who is
09:05:22 going to give our invocation.
09:05:23 And after the invocation, please stand for the pledge
09:05:25 of allegiance.

09:05:37 >>> (Off microphone)
09:05:41 Although we are free, that freedom came at a cost.
09:06:05 We are grateful for the many who have given their all
09:06:07 to preserve and protect it, and we pray your special
09:06:10 blessing as we observe Memorial Day on all those who
09:06:14 still serve in its defense, our military, our law
09:06:16 enforcement, firefighters and others who willingly
09:06:19 serve at great personal risk.
09:06:20 We ask your blessing and your guidance now upon these
09:06:24 your servants in every matter that they consider this
09:06:28 day and we give you all the glory and honor in this
09:06:31 and all things.
09:06:32 Amen.
09:06:33 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:06:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I hope you get your roof fixed,
09:06:54 too.
09:06:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thanks, Jim.
09:06:56 You and the clerk's office do a great job with the
09:06:58 invocation.
09:06:59 We certainly do appreciate that very much.
09:07:01 Roll call.
09:07:02 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.

09:07:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:07:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:07:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:07:08 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:07:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:07:17 We have a 9:00 presentation by the Tampa Heights civic
09:07:21 association and making the Tampa stewardship team to
09:07:29 make a presentation, FDOT converted to a civic center.
09:07:35 You have five minutes.
09:07:36 And then let me just say this to start to council this
09:07:39 morning.
09:07:40 We have a real tight schedule.
09:07:42 I will ask not to get into dialogue on public comment
09:07:45 even on this item.
09:07:46 We may want to agenda this item for a future
09:07:49 discussion.
09:07:50 And I wish we hadn't done it this morning but before
09:07:53 we put it under ceremonial activity and it's really a
09:07:56 ceremonial function.
09:07:58 We voted on that.
09:07:59 But nevertheless we are going to move with that, but
09:08:02 we can agenda this for future discussion on our

09:08:04 agenda.
09:08:06 So with that in mind, we have a real tight schedule so
09:08:09 I ask that we hold our thoughts and our comments to
09:08:15 after public comments.
09:08:16 >> Good morning.
09:08:17 Thank you for this opportunity for giving us this
09:08:23 quick presentation to you.
09:08:25 As you know, we have been working in our neighborhoods
09:08:27 for many years.
09:08:29 We have completed our neighborhood plan, and one of
09:08:30 the things that we feature in our plan is our youth
09:08:36 league association and activities for our
09:08:38 neighborhood, a home for our activities in our
09:08:44 neighborhood, and this is an opportunity that we think
09:08:47 would help us to address that issue.
09:08:51 I have several of our workers in our community, and
09:08:55 they are each going to come and tell you some more
09:08:58 about this project.
09:08:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name for the record,
09:09:02 please.
09:09:03 >>> Young-Green, I should know that by now.
09:09:08 And we will have Lee come up now.

09:09:15 >> I'm Lee Stewart the Tampa branch.
09:09:22 And I'm showing support for this neighborhood project.
09:09:26 We'll be giving time and money and bringing in
09:09:30 manpower to get the project done obviously when it
09:09:32 starts.
09:09:33 Thank you very much.
09:09:35 >>> John Tennison, architects at 502 east Ross Avenue,
09:09:45 Tampa.
09:09:47 Thank you very much for giving us an opportunity to
09:09:49 talk to you a little bit about this project.
09:09:53 I have got a floor plan that I would like to put on
09:09:55 the overhead and show you what the building is all
09:09:57 about.
09:10:04 I'm not sure how to turn this guy on here.
09:10:07 >> It's on.
09:10:08 >>> Oh, it is on.
09:10:09 Okay.
09:10:13 For those of you who aren't familiar, and a I think
09:10:15 probably most of you are familiar whenever this
09:10:17 building, it sits at the corner of Palm Avenue and
09:10:22 Lamar street, right next to the interstate.
09:10:25 It's been empty now for several years.

09:10:28 The city has had a lot of problems with keeping
09:10:31 vagrants outs of the building.
09:10:33 It's boarded up.
09:10:34 It looks bad for the neighborhood.
09:10:36 So it's definitely a building that's worthwhile
09:10:41 putting back.
09:10:43 The Department of Transportation owns the building.
09:10:46 They are agreeable to lease the building to the City
09:10:48 of Tampa, and the City of Tampa in turn would lease
09:10:53 the building to the Tampa Heights junior civic
09:10:56 association for use as its clubhouse, as well as Tampa
09:11:01 Heights neighborhood association for the building to
09:11:04 be used as a community center.
09:11:07 As you can see from the floor plan, it is
09:11:09 predominantly an open building.
09:11:15 We have got some areas that are being divided off for
09:11:22 small businesses and smaller meeting rooms, but it is
09:11:26 mostly just a large structure.
09:11:28 And it would be ideal for our use.
09:11:31 What we would like to do is, this morning, to ask you
09:11:35 for your assistance.
09:11:36 Right now, we have got a number of volunteers.

09:11:39 The entire project is being done on a volunteer basis.
09:11:44 That construction is helping us with construction.
09:11:47 Eric brown is helping us, southeast construction has
09:11:51 volunteered to do drywall work, Lou is providing some
09:11:55 labor, we have got a whole slough of neighborhood
09:12:00 people that are going to come in and help.
09:12:02 Home Depot is volunteering to put the kitchen in.
09:12:05 And we would like the city to step up to that and be
09:12:08 on that list as well.
09:12:09 So what we are asking is that you, if at all possible,
09:12:13 that you waive any fees that the city might otherwise
09:12:17 collect for building permits or other miscellaneous
09:12:20 costs like that.
09:12:22 So with that, if you have any questions, we would be
09:12:25 happy to answer them, if I could.
09:12:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:12:31 I suggest, council, that we put this on our agenda for
09:12:34 future discussion at our next meeting.
09:12:35 Yes, Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:12:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:12:38 I believe you have something to pass out to us that
09:12:40 describes the programs that would be in there in the

09:12:44 building and what my motion would be at our next
09:12:47 meeting under government reports, to get a report
09:12:52 back, if the city can indeed facilitate those, pass
09:12:58 through the building, to receive it from FDOT, pass at
09:13:01 long to the Tampa Heights civic association, number
09:13:03 one.
09:13:04 Number two, to waive permit fees.
09:13:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
09:13:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Excuse me.
09:13:14 I'm sorry to interrupt.
09:13:15 But I just -- the motion is to waive the permit fee?
09:13:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Two things.
09:13:20 With waive the permit fee and act as a pass-through,
09:13:23 and maybe a CDBG donation to the Tampa Heights civic
09:13:28 association as part of our CDBG thing, the costs -- I
09:13:33 know we are not allowed to waive fees.
09:13:36 That that be considered.
09:13:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: To consider.
09:13:39 Thank you.
09:13:39 >> And the other is to help get that lease moved
09:13:44 through the city.
09:13:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Because you guys can apply for

09:13:47 grants if you have the building.
09:13:48 The city would just architect as a pass-through.
09:13:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Legal will bring us back a report at
09:13:56 our next meeting.
09:13:57 Mr. Fletcher.
09:14:00 Moved and seconded, seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
09:14:03 All in favor say Aye.
09:14:05 Opposes?
09:14:06 Thank you very much.
09:14:06 We'll review our agenda at this time.
09:14:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members
09:14:13 of City Council.
09:14:14 Before you, you have the addendum to today's agenda.
09:14:16 And beginning with item number 48, you will be
09:14:22 presented with a substitute ordinance to change the
09:14:23 name of the park to Alfred Al Barnes Jr. park, adding
09:14:30 Jr., by the request of the city attorney Rodriguez.
09:14:34 Item 46 in advance of the public hearing is to give
09:14:37 notice that will ask to be continued to June 4 at
09:14:45 9:30 a.m. with a written By the city attorney.
09:14:48 That is to amend the definition of repeat violations.
09:14:54 Item 71, which is a 1:30 public hearing, it will have

09:14:58 to be taken up then.
09:15:00 You will have a request to July 30th at the --
09:15:05 30th, at 26617 West Kennedy Boulevard.
09:15:09 Item 73 will also have to be taken up at 1:30 by
09:15:13 advance notice to the public, there will be a request
09:15:16 for continuance to the next available council meeting
09:15:18 for the written request of Rebecca Kert, assistant
09:15:21 city attorney.
09:15:22 And I suspect that will be the afternoon of June
09:15:26 4th, but that will have to be taken up again in
09:15:28 the afternoon.
09:15:33 I believe you have items -- and I'm sorry it's out of
09:15:37 order, council, but to remove these items from the
09:15:41 agenda.
09:15:44 At the request of council member Miranda, items 30,
09:15:48 31, 32 and 33 for staff reports at 10:30.
09:15:54 Per the request of Chairman Scott, item 34, to remove
09:15:57 the item for staff reports at 10:30.
09:16:02 And item 39, council, will require a separate vote
09:16:06 because of a conflict of council member Caetano.
09:16:12 With regard to order of business, there is a request
09:16:16 to move item 59 to be heard as the first item under

09:16:20 staff reports and unfinished report business, a report
09:16:24 by Cynthia Miller.
09:16:25 Items 60 and 62 are related to water issues, and under
09:16:32 the direction of the chair at the last meeting that
09:16:34 those items be heard last under staff reports and
09:16:36 unfinished business.
09:16:37 I believe those are all the changes that I am aware
09:16:39 of.
09:16:40 I'm sorry, did I miss one?
09:16:43 I'm sorry.
09:16:43 Council member Dingfelder has requested that item 24
09:16:47 be pulled for discussion.
09:16:50 And that's related to the renewal of award for
09:16:58 correcting a scrivener's error, so I believe that's
09:17:04 the only changes I have to the agenda.
09:17:08 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, I have a few items that I would
09:17:10 like to pull for just a few brief questions.
09:17:15 Item number 9, item number 14, and item number 17.
09:17:33 And 14 and 17 I just have a couple of really quick
09:17:36 questions for staff.
09:17:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: When did you want to take those up?
09:17:43 Did you want to take them up under staff reports and

09:17:45 have staff present?
09:17:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Under staff reports.
09:17:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll take them under staff reports
09:17:53 anyway.
09:17:54 Thank you.
09:17:57 Any other items?
09:17:58 Yes.
09:17:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to make a comment about
09:18:03 19.
09:18:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We can do that when we get to that
09:18:08 item.
09:18:09 On 19.
09:18:10 Okay.
09:18:11 A motion to approve the agenda?
09:18:15 >> So moved.
09:18:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:18:17 (Motion carried).
09:18:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Public.
09:18:22 We have allocated 30 minutes for public comments at
09:18:25 this time.
09:18:25 You have three minutes.
09:18:27 As you come forth state your name and address for the

09:18:29 record.
09:18:29 We give consideration first for items that are on the
09:18:31 agenda.
09:18:32 If there are items that are on the agenda and you want
09:18:34 to speak, you may come forward at this time.
09:18:37 Items on the agenda, pleas come forward at this time.
09:18:40 If you will line up.
09:18:41 Come forward for items that are on the agenda.
09:18:46 We give preference to those items first.
09:18:52 Okay.
09:18:53 No one.
09:18:54 Okay.
09:18:54 Then we'll take public comment, additional comments.
09:18:59 Anyone, would you please come forward.
09:19:04 >>> I don't know if this has come up before but item
09:19:08 46 on the agenda.
09:19:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: state your name for the record,
09:19:10 please.
09:19:10 >>> My name is Sue Lyon.
09:19:13 I live at 4105 --
09:19:19 Item 46.
09:19:21 Chip Fletcher of the legal department requesting a

09:19:23 continuance.
09:19:28 We discussed that at the T.H.A.N. committee meeting
09:19:31 and believe we should bring it up to the T.H.A.N.
09:19:34 membership.
09:19:36 T.H.A.N. has a meeting the 10th of June.
09:19:39 And we would like to respectfully request that you
09:19:41 postpone it until after the T.H.A.N. meeting.
09:19:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, that would have to be
09:19:52 taken up at the time of the public hearing.
09:19:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Sue, we don't see a problem with that.
09:19:57 We think we can accomplish that without any problem.
09:19:59 Okay?
09:20:01 That's item 46.
09:20:04 After June 10th, right?
09:20:06 Next speaker.
09:20:13 >>> Sal Chillura, Landscape Pros, here to speak about
09:20:18 the water restrictions.
09:20:21 I want to put this on the Elmo.
09:20:25 The graph provided by Brad Baird.
09:20:43 This is as of yesterday.
09:20:44 The higher that green line goes, obviously the more
09:20:47 water we have.

09:20:48 The closer we get to the end of the blue line, that's
09:20:52 the rain season.
09:20:55 So we are getting a lot closer to that line, and that
09:20:59 green line going up a lot higher so our risk levels
09:21:02 are minimal compared to what they would have been a
09:21:04 month or two ago.
09:21:06 That's a good thing for us right now.
09:21:09 I think last time we met, one of you asked Brad at
09:21:13 what level did he feel comfortable turning the
09:21:16 irrigation back on.
09:21:18 And I believe his response was when the reservoir gets
09:21:20 to 20 feet.
09:21:22 As of yesterday, on your web page, the water levels in
09:21:26 the reservoir were 20.8 feet, almost 21.
09:21:32 What we would like to see is the restrictions taken
09:21:36 off, and at least according to the SWFWMD modified
09:21:41 page 4.
09:21:42 People are not going to water.
09:21:44 I think we have gotten the message out there about
09:21:46 conservation.
09:21:46 I think we should put it in the people's hands.
09:21:51 And if it gets to the dire level then of course the

09:21:54 mayor can pull the plug on it.
09:21:56 But the customers should be able to weigh whether they
09:22:00 want to pay the cost of additional water or whether
09:22:03 they want to relandscape their entire yard.
09:22:07 If there was a threat to public safety, I could
09:22:10 understand taking that away from the consumer.
09:22:12 But I believe that threat has been alleviated as shows
09:22:18 by that.
09:22:19 Our levels are pretty good.
09:22:21 I think we still need to work on our supply problem.
09:22:25 It's not a demand problem.
09:22:26 As we see, people are using less and less water.
09:22:29 I think it's definitely a supply problem so we have to
09:22:31 work on the reclaimed.
09:22:32 I think they are doing that.
09:22:33 But we need to concentrate on the supply problem, not
09:22:36 the demand.
09:22:39 I just hope you gays take that into consideration and
09:22:41 leave it up to the people to do that.
09:22:43 Use their judgment.
09:22:47 Hopefully you guys can recommend that they go with the
09:22:49 phase 4, the modified phase 4, make everything easier

09:22:53 for customers because I do get a lot of customers that
09:22:55 say, I don't know where I'm at, I don't know when to
09:22:57 water, when knots to water.
09:22:59 It makes at lot clearer, a lot easier for everybody
09:23:02 involved.
09:23:03 I guess the enforcement would be a lot easier as well
09:23:05 as on the customer side.
09:23:07 So that's what we are asking for you to do today.
09:23:10 Thank you.
09:23:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:23:13 Next speaker.
09:23:15 >>> John Miller, Oasis Irrigation. My business
09:23:20 resides at 3331 West Main Street.
09:23:23 I also would like to speak on the water restrictions
09:23:28 as we have done the past few years.
09:23:29 Recent rains have helped out tremendously.
09:23:33 And as I stated last City Council meeting, it appears
09:23:37 that every year we have a drought, every year we get
09:23:40 the rain.
09:23:41 And once again we are getting rain, hopefully
09:23:44 landscape is going to recover.
09:23:46 We don't need to water today.

09:23:47 We are all aware of that.
09:23:49 But what we are hoping City Council will consider is
09:23:52 perhaps June 1st, work towards June 1st,
09:23:56 getting the water turned back on and allowing folks to
09:24:00 use water if they need to, especially for new
09:24:03 construction projects.
09:24:04 But conservation is definitely working.
09:24:08 And we'll speak about percentages of water and saved
09:24:14 over the past 90 days as compared to last year.
09:24:18 Again, many, many property owners have suffered losses
09:24:21 due to the irrigation turned off.
09:24:23 Things are starting to recover.
09:24:25 Our city parks were a real big concern and our city
09:24:28 medians.
09:24:30 Some recent numbers I have come up with is, in talking
09:24:34 to some of the city folks, was to replace our
09:24:40 athletic -- 30 of our city fields that are irrigated,
09:24:45 the cost to replace is around $450,000 which the
09:24:49 taxpayers would have to pay.
09:24:50 So there is some relief that we needed when we did not
09:24:53 have water
09:24:57 Again, the rains are helping.

09:24:58 And we would ask City Council to consider turning the
09:25:01 water back on June 1st and adopting the SWFWMD
09:25:04 ordinance and keeping it on the same levels so there's
09:25:08 no confusion when we can and cannot water.
09:25:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:25:14 Next speaker.
09:25:18 >>> Campbell Burton.
09:25:21 I own Burton landscape.
09:25:23 I'm a landscape contractor and ask that you adopt
09:25:29 SWFWMD's phase 4 water restrictions as soon as
09:25:31 possible.
09:25:32 Thank you.
09:25:39 >>> Good morning.
09:25:40 My name is John Miragliotta.
09:25:44 I'm not going to be as quick as Campbell.
09:25:46 You have to pardon me for that.
09:25:50 [ Laughter ]
09:25:50 First of all, we received over six inches of rain at
09:25:54 the reservoir during the month of May.
09:25:57 Last year, we had .36 inches of rain at the reservoir.
09:26:03 So needless to say, our reservoir has gone up.
09:26:08 Liver levels have gone up substantially.

09:26:12 I have worked on a chart.
09:26:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have it.
09:26:33 >>> The key thing I was trying to do was do like a
09:26:39 comparison of last year when we did not have
09:26:41 restrictions and this year when we do have
09:26:43 restrictions.
09:26:44 If you notice, our reservoir levels are actually
09:26:46 little up from this time last year.
09:26:50 We have got almost a foot increase, .8 feet, 4 percent
09:26:56 rise.
09:26:57 When I read the mayor's letter, she had two criteria
09:27:01 that she's trying to hit before we switch over to the
09:27:04 phase 4 modifications and one of them was to reach the
09:27:07 21 feet which I think we are going to do real soon.
09:27:11 We have more rains coming this week, and looks like
09:27:13 next week, too.
09:27:14 I know it's been an unusual pattern but we are getting
09:27:16 to the point where we will start the rainy season
09:27:20 permanently.
09:27:21 So the key thing is the reservoir level is at that 21
09:27:24 feet, just a little below.
09:27:26 On the next line down, our river flows are actually

09:27:30 increased as of yesterday compared to last year.
09:27:34 So all of our signs are up.
09:27:37 There's nothing that's really on a down level.
09:27:39 If you notice, too, the third column down, the
09:27:42 augmentation, what we are hoping out the river with
09:27:46 has actually decreased 16% from last year.
09:27:50 The last two columns for water demands are way down
09:27:54 due to the fact that we had the restrictions.
09:27:57 But also due to the fact that consumers are realizing
09:28:01 that we have this water problem.
09:28:03 And the key thing that we stressed initially was found
09:28:07 out about the emergency ordinance was consumers, when
09:28:12 they found out about the problems with water, were
09:28:15 saving water on their own, the potable use was going
09:28:18 down, and the key thing, the irrigation use was going
09:28:21 way down, 60 million gallons we saved.
09:28:26 I don't have the exact weeks, three to four weeks.
09:28:28 But the key thing is the consumers were savoring it.
09:28:30 Right now consumers aren't going to use water because
09:28:33 of the rains.
09:28:34 The folks who do need the water for new construction,
09:28:37 for any new plantings, we want them to have the

09:28:40 opportunity to use it.
09:28:42 The problem I have got with the mayor's recommendation
09:28:45 on the 60 million gallons a day is right now, if you
09:28:49 look at the river flow, we are at 40 million a day.
09:28:53 I checked the gauge this morning.
09:28:55 That's gone up another foot.
09:28:56 So another million gallons a day.
09:28:58 So it's going to raise up as you go from 40 to 60,
09:29:03 it's a pretty good jump.
09:29:05 It's going to happen.
09:29:05 It may take three weeks.
09:29:07 It may take four weeks.
09:29:08 It may take five weeks once we get the rains.
09:29:11 But trying to determine that 60 million figure, where
09:29:15 she got it from.
09:29:15 (Bell sounds)
09:29:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
09:29:17 Next speaker.
09:29:21 >> My name is Phil Myer with Landscape Design, design
09:29:30 and landscaping, and until three years ago with Myers
09:29:33 Nursery Wholesale, plants nursery in Hillsborough
09:29:36 County.

09:29:38 And I would just like to state what Sal, the first
09:29:42 speaker that talked about the water restrictions is
09:29:44 talking about and the man, I can't remember his name,
09:29:47 who heads up the water reserve at the reservoir said
09:29:50 that when we reach about 20 feet it would be time to
09:29:53 lift the restrictions.
09:29:55 It's up over that now and will keep on going.
09:29:57 Looks like the rainy season is starting earlier and
09:30:00 coming on.
09:30:01 And also what Sal stated, I have been in the nursery
09:30:08 wholesale business my whole life.
09:30:10 I grew up in it.
09:30:11 I have been coming down here for 30 years to the city
09:30:13 and the county and the problem is it's a water supply
09:30:18 problem, not a water demand problem.
09:30:20 You haven't done anything.
09:30:22 You people, the previous City Hall council people, the
09:30:26 county commissioners, nothing.
09:30:31 We are dependent totally -- all our eggs are in one
09:30:35 basket.
09:30:35 The reservoir and Hillsborough River, starting this
09:30:38 reservoir, most of the people in Hillsborough County,

09:30:41 City of Tampa, they all think it's a joke that you try
09:30:44 to mix concrete and dirt.
09:30:47 Common sense.
09:30:50 Too many people get an education, get educated beyond
09:30:53 their intelligence.
09:30:55 I the concrete, to go back and try to patch.
09:30:59 That we can save millions of dollars and thousands of
09:31:01 dollars.
09:31:01 Don't even bother.
09:31:03 If you want to do something, sink a Wellfield in
09:31:06 there, bay property out there in Hillsborough County,
09:31:10 Polk County line, and put in wellfields, we would be
09:31:14 way ahead, wouldn't have to worry about evaporation,
09:31:18 and a rundown dilapidated reservoir.
09:31:22 So I'm getting a little on your case.
09:31:24 I think you earned it and the previous people, county
09:31:27 and city.
09:31:31 I have been coming down here for 30 years and the
09:31:33 gents that has already spoken, they weren't even in
09:31:37 business 30 years ago.
09:31:38 I have been come down here, Roy Davis and others for
09:31:40 years and years and years.

09:31:42 And the last thing, the economic impact.
09:31:46 Spring is the busiest time of year.
09:31:48 Sure the economy is down.
09:31:49 I know that.
09:31:49 But as soon as your restrictions on only hose
09:31:53 watering, typically, for instance, my brother, the big
09:31:58 busiest time of year, springtime.
09:32:00 The last three years averaged over $110,000 a months
09:32:03 in gross sales.
09:32:04 He just deposited $32,000 this past month.
09:32:07 Me?
09:32:08 I average about 12 to 15 designs a month.
09:32:12 And over the last two months, I have just got the
09:32:16 third job I'm working on now in two months time.
09:32:21 At least 24 different designs I'm working on.
09:32:23 This is my third one I'm starting on right now this
09:32:26 month.
09:32:26 So if you want to really do something, I think we need
09:32:29 to lift the restriction, go to SWFWMD's phase 4.
09:32:34 I think Sal mentioned.
09:32:37 And then for long-range, let's do something about
09:32:39 supply.

09:32:40 Save us some money.
09:32:41 Don't do anything with the reservoir.
09:32:44 I think that's a joke.
09:32:45 You want to do something there, sink a Wellfield and
09:32:48 put wellfield at the Polk County, Hillsborough County
09:32:54 line.
09:32:55 Thank you.
09:32:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
09:32:59 >>> Chip -- 1219 East Henner Avenue.
09:33:03 As you debate whether to go to once a month watering
09:33:05 or twice a month watering, consider, what would you
09:33:08 say to the maybe 90% of people in the world who would
09:33:12 be flabbergasted, appalled that we are using drinking
09:33:16 waters on lawns, that it's not even an option for them
09:33:19 to consider, who would ask questions like, do you eat
09:33:24 this grass?
09:33:24 No.
09:33:25 Do you feed this grass to your farm animals?
09:33:28 No.
09:33:30 Do you use this grass to make bedding or perhaps
09:33:34 biofuels?
09:33:35 No.

09:33:36 Well, what is it you do with this grass that you are
09:33:40 willing to risk such a precious resource, even when
09:33:43 it's in short supply?
09:33:47 Uhh, we like the way it looks.
09:33:50 And yet, here comments have been made recently about
09:33:55 how it's a necessity to water lawns, and how the
09:33:59 tighter restrictions are unfair, how they are painful,
09:34:05 how they involve sacrifice.
09:34:08 They have even been called Draconian.
09:34:10 I'm suggesting let's adjusts continue doing things the
09:34:13 way we have.
09:34:14 We'll learn what Draconian is all about.
09:34:17 If we were rational and objective about this, there
09:34:21 would be far more outrage over the use of any drinking
09:34:24 water on lawns than there is the current level of
09:34:27 protest over tighter restrictions.
09:34:30 But we are not rational and objective.
09:34:35 And it goes beyond just the watering.
09:34:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Turn it around.
09:34:48 There you go.
09:34:49 It was upside down.
09:34:51 >>> You see that?

09:34:52 There's a real nice patch of grass.
09:34:54 It's being watered in the daytime.
09:34:56 This was sodded about four months earlier.
09:34:58 They didn't care about the restrictions.
09:35:03 This is about two and a half years ago.
09:35:04 And that sign there is a keep-off sign.
09:35:10 It's got a picture of an adult, a child and pet, and a
09:35:14 warning to keep off.
09:35:15 This is a calling card the companies use, lawn
09:35:18 treatment companies that come and spray with I don't
09:35:20 know what.
09:35:23 But this is what they leave after.
09:35:25 Companies with names like CHEM lawn.
09:35:30 Chemical lawn.
09:35:30 Think about that.
09:35:32 The healthiest green luscious lawns by these types of
09:35:39 companies are spraying whatever and they are leaving
09:35:41 these warning signs afterwards.
09:35:43 This was taken -- this is the same patch of grass.
09:35:47 People moved out.
09:35:48 That's about four months ago.
09:35:50 And they stopped the lawn treatment.

09:35:52 They stopped the watering.
09:35:53 And that's what happens.
09:35:58 Then here is an example.
09:36:00 A pest-free lawn.
09:36:03 We don't want any life on these lawns.
09:36:07 They are devoid of life.
09:36:08 The healthiest, greenest, luscious lawns in Tampa are
09:36:13 the ones causing the most harm to all our ecosystem
09:36:15 and our environments.
09:36:16 And it goes beyond that.
09:36:20 Here is what goes on in the mowing.
09:36:33 (Bell sounds).
09:36:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:36:34 Next speaker.
09:36:42 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Sir, are you a stockholder in
09:36:43 Chem lawn?
09:36:49 >>MOSES KNOTT, JR.: I reside at 2902 East Ellicott
09:36:52 street three nights a week.
09:36:54 And then I thank God for his gracious and his mercy.
09:36:58 And thank God for this rain.
09:37:00 I'm the second one that said that this morning.
09:37:03 The man prayed a prayer, thank you for the rain.

09:37:06 The rests of you come up about water.
09:37:08 I told you all over and over again, that water belongs
09:37:11 to God.
09:37:12 You know, every time I tell you this.
09:37:15 If you want rain, you know -- I'm a Bible students.
09:37:17 I been in Bible class 20-some years.
09:37:20 And every time we talk about rain, you know what they
09:37:27 use rain for?
09:37:28 They use rain to bless you and curse you.
09:37:34 If you do something too much, if you don't appreciate
09:37:41 God, you get too much rain.
09:37:44 Let me tell you all.
09:37:50 He said if you are wicked and don't stop your wick
09:37:57 ways, put you on the rooftop and everything down below
09:38:00 you won't be able to get it.
09:38:01 And he put 'em up there.
09:38:03 Now about this here.
09:38:05 A gentleman said awhile ago the reservoir.
09:38:09 Let me tell you something, man.
09:38:10 I feel sorry for you and you peoples up there.
09:38:14 I always talk about the rich part of town.
09:38:16 The poor people, they don't care about us.

09:38:19 But you all with that reclaimed water, you all build
09:38:27 that system.
09:38:28 You all are the lawn with the law.
09:38:40 Charge people something like a thousand dollars to
09:38:42 hook up to it.
09:38:46 Right now you all ought to go on a mission of getting
09:38:49 all the people hook up and not charge more than a
09:38:51 couple hundred dollars or do it free and you won't
09:38:54 have the trouble in a more.
09:38:55 And I want to go back talking about water.
09:38:59 Like I told you all, God gives you too much water or
09:39:02 not enough.
09:39:03 Now in my part of town we got too much.
09:39:06 Over there at Hillsborough, God knows brings that
09:39:12 water down there.
09:39:14 That's been going on for years and years and years.
09:39:26 I am only about three blocks from there.
09:39:28 And I go around 34th street to get by.
09:39:31 The buses, everybody got to go around.
09:39:34 That's y'all's fault.
09:39:36 That is totally y'all's fault.
09:39:38 And then the mayor, you know, she goes and talks about

09:39:46 bringing water back.
09:39:47 Let me tell you something.
09:39:52 If you bless the little things you get blessed with
09:39:54 the big things.
09:39:55 Now
09:39:58 If I have a million, I wants two million.
09:40:11 I want to thank God for the rain.
09:40:17 That guy gave a beautiful prayer this morning.
09:40:19 Thank you.
09:40:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
09:40:30 >>> Good morning.
09:40:32 Although I was born here, I have had a few health
09:40:34 problems.
09:40:36 Frederick -- Ybor City 1951.
09:40:38 My father.
09:40:42 2001 East Powhatan Avenue.
09:40:46 I have only lived in three places other than going to
09:40:49 Florida State.
09:40:49 The problem is that we have the obey the law.
09:40:51 Whatever the law is, we support our government.
09:40:53 The problem is, and everybody who hasn't lived here
09:40:59 106 years, goes back to 1886 or 1891, the Tetricks

09:41:03 came here in 1884 from Nova Scotia.
09:41:10 The -- came from the Canary Islands in time to get
09:41:11 married.
09:41:12 My father was born at 1028 East 17th, Charlie Wall
09:41:15 was a block away.
09:41:19 2806 North 12th Street. My grandfather took an old
09:41:24 house in 1937, 1414.
09:41:29 There was an alligator back then.
09:41:32 We sold that property.
09:41:33 It's in danger.
09:41:35 They can't touch it.
09:41:38 It's protected.
09:41:38 But I know one thing.
09:41:40 I have lived through every hurricane since Donna.
09:41:44 And I was taught to obey the law. Democracy is a very
09:41:45 important form of government.
09:41:56 Unless we work together, there was 200,000 people in
09:41:59 all of Hillsborough County in 1969 when I went to
09:42:01 Florida State.
09:42:02 There was over a million people in the county,
09:42:03 counting on both sides of highway 54.
09:42:05 And that's not counting the tourists and the students.

09:42:09 We have a population explosion.
09:42:11 This is the fastest growing place in Florida.
09:42:16 We had three area codes in 1969.
09:42:19 We had 17 area codes in the State of Florida.
09:42:22 The growth is unbelievable.
09:42:24 But with growth needs respect and obeying the law and
09:42:27 working together.
09:42:31 You don't like the mayor but you still need to obey
09:42:33 the law.
09:42:34 You don't like what you do, then we need to vote you
09:42:37 out of there.
09:42:38 But and I support the government.
09:42:39 Mr. Miranda knows me.
09:42:40 Mr. Dingfelder knows me.
09:42:42 Ms. Saul-Sena knows me.
09:42:43 The rest of you I haven't met.
09:42:44 Last time I saw Mr. Miranda I was on a school bus
09:42:47 driving down his street.
09:42:48 And I can't do that job anymore.
09:42:50 I'm old.
09:42:54 Charlie Wall was being shot at with machine guns with
09:42:57 my great-grandmother and grandfather sitting on the

09:42:57 front porch. I never knew the story till I was grown.
09:43:02 A very good friend whose father had a hardware store
09:43:09 in Ybor City.
09:43:10 Someone you know well.
09:43:11 And I'm not going to say his name.
09:43:14 But he told me if you ever need anything, I knew your
09:43:19 daddy before he died.
09:43:21 He says I don't care if I'm downtown or where I am,
09:43:23 you call me.
09:43:24 Thank you.
09:43:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
09:43:27 Councilman Miranda.
09:43:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:43:30 I appreciate the comments of the last gentleman who
09:43:33 spoke.
09:43:33 And in fact I remember even honking the horn.
09:43:37 Let me say this.
09:43:39 You can blame government.
09:43:40 You can blame me directly.
09:43:43 You can blame anybody who has ever been in office.
09:43:48 You say we created the problems.
09:43:51 One gentleman that spoke.

09:43:54 Forget about the reservoir, let's make it a wellfield.
09:43:56 Oh, that's nice.
09:43:58 That's really nice.
09:44:00 That same gentleman spoke about the loss of income and
09:44:04 less jobs.
09:44:07 And I have compassion for you and the rest of you
09:44:10 here.
09:44:11 And when you create that and look at the realities of
09:44:14 life, and you look at the city permitting department,
09:44:19 I guarantee you, you run parallel to the city
09:44:22 permitting department and the same number of new
09:44:24 construction that is going on.
09:44:28 Let me go back to the wellfields.
09:44:31 Through the SWFWMD order, Tampa Bay has reduced the
09:44:36 pumping of wells from 160 million gallons a day down
09:44:40 to 90.
09:44:42 Due to this phenom that we experienced and that we
09:44:49 have now, because if you go back and study historical
09:44:53 records, it doesn't rain like this in May.
09:44:55 So now you are going to tell me and the rest of us
09:44:57 here, called idiots in a way, and you are entitled to
09:45:02 that -- I didn't say you said that --

09:45:05 [Sounding gavel]
09:45:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this.
09:45:09 Do you really know it's going to rain in June?
09:45:13 Historically it says it does.
09:45:16 History tells me it's supposed to rain in May.
09:45:21 Is the reservoir half full or half empty?
09:45:26 I can tell you right now when you look at the water
09:45:30 supply -- and the gentleman was right.
09:45:32 The water flow is about 41 million gallons a day now.
09:45:35 What they forgot to tell us is how much water we are
09:45:38 buying now.
09:45:40 And I can tell you that that amount is 22.98 million
09:45:45 gallons from the last report that I received.
09:45:47 That means that that wellfield that's supposed to be
09:45:53 pumping 90 are grabbing some more water from them.
09:46:00 Nature needs help.
09:46:02 Without nature, none of us would be here.
09:46:06 No matter what your job is, who you are, what
09:46:09 profession you are in.
09:46:12 Nature is at a critical point because of what we have
09:46:15 done to it.
09:46:18 It's frail.

09:46:20 And it's fragile.
09:46:22 And in these cases, it's up to us to stand up and
09:46:28 protect the environment so the environment can give us
09:46:32 back what we need to sustain life.
09:46:36 During all these hardships, I learned one thing about
09:46:40 laws.
09:46:42 No law works unless the public accepts the law.
09:46:49 No law works that way.
09:46:52 And in this case, there is no doubt in my mind that
09:46:58 the general public in this great community that we
09:47:02 live in has accepted this law.
09:47:05 If we did not have water restrictions on the two
09:47:09 watering days -- and again the watering days have not
09:47:13 changed in years, only the month of watering has
09:47:17 changed, or there would be too much confusion out
09:47:19 there, we would be doing over 90 million gallons on
09:47:23 watering days, and now we are doing in the mid 60s.
09:47:30 On nonwatering days, we are doing 20 million gallons
09:47:34 less on the average.
09:47:36 That means that if you compare this time in history to
09:47:39 last year's time in history, the amount of savings on
09:47:42 water is 960 million gallons.

09:47:49 And I don't want you to take my word for it.
09:47:52 I want you to go to the water department, go to
09:47:54 SWFWMD, go anywhere you want and verify what I'm
09:47:58 telling you.
09:47:59 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:48:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:48:00 Okay.
09:48:01 Anyone here wish to request for reconsideration on
09:48:05 legislative matter?
09:48:06 Okay.
09:48:07 Hearing none, we move to our committee reports.
09:48:09 Our Public Safety Committee chairwoman Gwen Miller.
09:48:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Move resolutions 2 through 6.
09:48:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
09:48:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:48:20 (Motion carried)
09:48:22 Parks and recreation, Councilwoman Linda Saul-Sena.
09:48:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Before I move the resolutions,
09:48:29 somebody wanted to speak on number 9.
09:48:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We pulled number 9.
09:48:41 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone).
09:48:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Then I would like to move items

09:48:46 number 7 and 8 and 10 and 11.
09:48:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
09:48:52 (Motion carried)
09:48:55 Public Works Committee, councilman Charlie Miranda.
09:48:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I move items 12
09:49:02 through 27 with the exceptions of pulling 14, 17 and
09:49:07 19, if I remember correctly.
09:49:12 I think 24.
09:49:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 24, right.
09:49:16 Is there a second?
09:49:19 Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
09:49:21 Sorry.
09:49:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I said I wanted to make a little
09:49:25 comment about 19.
09:49:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go ahead.
09:49:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:49:28 I just wanted to share with council members, it was in
09:49:31 the press this week, now there's been a big discussion
09:49:34 between HCC and the Ybor community about the new
09:49:39 buildings under construction and whether it should
09:49:41 have to be reviewed by the Barrio Latino.
09:49:44 And it's been a very great concern, because we had

09:49:48 major discussion.
09:49:50 Good news.
09:49:51 It seems that a compromise has been reached where all
09:49:53 future HCC buildings, and there's projected to be
09:49:56 another 500,000 square feet of HCC buildings, will
09:50:00 come under review by the barrio.
09:50:02 That is really significant in terms of protecting our
09:50:04 national landmark district.
09:50:05 And this building will not be four stories, it will be
09:50:09 three stories.
09:50:09 They will be allowed to go up two additional feet.
09:50:12 But they will modify the design to be slightly more
09:50:15 compatible with the surroundings.
09:50:17 And have to undergo barrio review.
09:50:21 So this is very good gnaws for the protection of Ybor
09:50:23 City, and I'm very happy that HCC and the Ybor
09:50:28 community are able to come to an understanding.
09:50:32 I saw this and I thought that's a great opportunity to
09:50:35 share that information:
09:50:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Question for Mr. Miranda. With that
09:50:40 being said would you wish to have that moved, number
09:50:42 19, rather than hold it?

09:50:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Oh, I didn't ask for it to be held.
09:50:46 I wanted to give an update on what was going on.
09:50:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
09:50:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:50:52 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:50:54 (Motion carried)
09:50:56 Finance Committee.
09:50:56 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm only going to move items number 28
09:51:04 and 29.
09:51:05 I believe Mr. Miranda asked to pull 33.
09:51:14 I wanted to pull number 34.
09:51:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You already pulled it.
09:51:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Great.
09:51:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That was pulled by me.
09:51:21 >>MARY MULHERN: I move 28 and 29.
09:51:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:51:26 (Motion carried)
09:51:29 Building and zoning.
09:51:30 Councilman Caetano.
09:51:31 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I want to move items 35 through
09:51:35 45 and pull item 39 for a separate vote.
09:51:40 I recuse myself from that vote.

09:51:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You're moving 41, right?
09:51:50 Pulling 39 for a separate vote.
09:51:51 Okay.
09:51:52 Is there a second?
09:51:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:51:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
09:51:55 Opposes?
09:51:56 (Motion carried)
09:51:57 We need a motion on item 39.
09:51:59 >>GWEN MILLER: I move item 39.
09:52:04 >> Second.
09:52:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:52:07 And need to make a statement for conflict.
09:52:09 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I have an interest in the real
09:52:11 property which is subject to this agreement item 39.
09:52:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And the form you file with the clerk?
09:52:20 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.
09:52:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: He's abstaining on the volt.
09:52:23 Moved and seconded.
09:52:24 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:52:27 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano abstaining.
09:52:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Transportation committee.

09:52:34 Councilman Dingfelder.
09:52:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move items 42 through 45.
09:52:45 >> Second.
09:52:45 (Motion carried).
09:52:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have our public hearing on second
09:52:51 reading at this time.
09:53:03 Anyone wishing to address council at this time, will
09:53:06 you please stand and be sworn?
09:53:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That would be on items 46 through 55,
09:53:10 I believe.
09:53:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
09:53:12 (Oath administered by Clerk).
09:53:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I believe there have
09:53:24 been items that have been available for public
09:53:26 inspection in City Council's offices, and I ask that
09:53:28 those are received and filed into the record at this
09:53:31 time.
09:53:33 >> So moved.
09:53:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:53:35 (Motion carried).
09:53:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:53:38 Item 46, that's the continuance.

09:53:40 Yes, sir.
09:53:40 >>> We requested this be continued because Ernie
09:53:47 Mueller in our office has been working on this issue.
09:53:50 He's been in trial this week defending council's
09:53:52 action on two small scale plan amendments, near
09:53:56 MacDill Air Force Base, and that actually
09:54:00 concluded ahead of schedule, he has not had time to
09:54:04 meet with council members as you all had requested due
09:54:07 to the workload with that hearing schedule.
09:54:09 So we have asked it be continued till June 4th.
09:54:15 I think you all heard a request earlier that it be
09:54:18 continued until the 25th of June, the next meeting
09:54:21 after that, if that's you-alls' discretion.
09:54:28 This is an issue that we have been working on for some
09:54:30 time.
09:54:31 But if you all want it scheduled on the 25th --
09:54:36 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to move to continues that
09:54:38 to June 25th.
09:54:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:54:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:54:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
09:54:46 Dingfelder.

09:54:48 >>MARY MULHERN: At 9:30.
09:54:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 9:30, 25th.
09:54:52 9:30 on the 25th.
09:54:54 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:54:56 Opposes?
09:54:57 Okay.
09:54:58 Item 47.
09:55:06 Anyone wish to address council on item 47?
09:55:09 >>GWEN MILLER: I move to open all the items --
09:55:14 47 through 54.
09:55:16 >>GWEN MILLER: 54.
09:55:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify approximate by
09:55:20 saying Aye.
09:55:21 Opposes?
09:55:22 Okay.
09:55:22 Item 47.
09:55:23 Anyone wish to address council?
09:55:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:55:27 >> Second.
09:55:27 (Motion carried).
09:55:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder, do you want to
09:55:31 read that?

09:55:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move the following ordinance for
09:55:35 second reading, an ordinance of the city of Tampa,
09:55:37 Florida amending ordinance 2008-186 by correcting a
09:55:41 scrivener's error, providing the graphic insert,
09:55:44 diagram 8 .2 for section 27-180, alternative parking
09:55:48 requirements, providing for repeal of all ordinances
09:55:51 in conflict, providing for severability, providing an
09:55:53 effective date.
09:55:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:55:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Moved and seconded.
09:55:56 Record your vote.
09:56:08 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:56:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 48.
09:56:12 We have a substitute ordinance.
09:56:13 Item 48.
09:56:14 Anyone wishing to address council on item 48?
09:56:17 This is the renaming of the 18th street to the
09:56:24 Alfred Al Barnes Jr. park.
09:56:27 >> Move to close.
09:56:29 >> Second.
09:56:30 (Motion carried)
09:56:33 >>MARY MULHERN: The substitute in the agenda.

09:56:35 >> Yes.
09:56:41 >> (Off microphone) I move an ordinance being
09:56:43 presented for substitution and adoption, an ordinance
09:56:46 of the city of Tampa, Florida renaming certain real
09:56:48 property located at 2902 north 32nd street at 18th
09:56:52 Avenue, Tampa, Florida, that has been accepted as
09:56:54 dedicated park property and is currently known as the
09:56:58 18th Avenue Park, open space, park, playground, to
09:57:02 Alfred "Al" Barnes, Jr. Park, providing for
09:57:09 severability, repealing all ordinances or parts of
09:57:13 ordinances in conflict herewith, providing an
09:57:15 effective date.
09:57:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:57:18 Record your vote.
09:57:25 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:57:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 49.
09:57:29 Anyone wishing to address council on item 49?
09:57:32 >>ERIC COTTON: Land Development Coordination.
09:57:34 I just want to let council know that items 49 through
09:57:37 54 have been certified.
09:57:39 The site plans have been certified by the zoning
09:57:40 administrator and filed with the clerk's office.

09:57:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close 49.
09:57:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:57:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I move an ordinance
09:57:51 presented for second reading and adoption, an
09:57:53 ordinance approving a special use permit S-2 for the
09:57:59 sale of alcoholic beverage sales, small venue and
09:58:03 making lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol
09:58:05 of more than 1% by weight and not more than 14% by
09:58:08 weight and wines regardless of alcoholic content, beer
09:58:10 and wine, 2(COP-X), for consumption on the premises
09:58:14 only at or from that certain lot, plot, tract of land
09:58:17 located at 3306 West Spruce Street, Tampa, Florida,
09:58:20 more particularly described in section 2 hereof
09:58:23 approving waivers as set forth herein, waiving certain
09:58:25 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
09:58:28 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
09:58:31 conflict, providing an effective date.
09:58:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:58:37 Record your vote.
09:58:45 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:58:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 50.
09:58:50 Anyone wishing to address council on item 50?

09:58:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
09:58:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:58:57 (Motion carried).
09:59:00 >>GWEN MILLER: I move to adopt the following ordinance
09:59:02 upon second reading, an ordinance repealing ordinance
09:59:04 number 2004-297 approving a special use permit S-2 for
09:59:10 alcoholic beverage sales, small venue and making
09:59:13 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcoholic
09:59:15 regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine and
09:59:18 liquor, 4(COP-R), for consumption on the premises only
09:59:21 in connection with a restaurant business establishment
09:59:24 at or from that certain lot, plot or tract of land
09:59:27 located at 218-220 East Davis Boulevard, Tampa,
09:59:31 Florida as more particularly described in section 3
09:59:34 hereof, approving waivers as set forth herein, waiving
09:59:39 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
09:59:42 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
09:59:45 conflict, providing an effective date.
09:59:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:59:49 Record your vote.
09:59:58 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:00:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here wishing to address council

10:00:04 on item 51?
10:00:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:00:06 >> Second.
10:00:07 (Motion carried).
10:00:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena, item 51.
10:00:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move the following
10:00:13 ordinance for second reading and adoption, an
10:00:15 ordinance providing a special use permit S-2 for
10:00:17 alcoholic beverage sales large venue and making lawful
10:00:21 the sale of beverages containing alcohol of more than
10:00:23 1% by weight and not more than 14% by weight and wines
10:00:28 regardless of alcoholic content, beer and wine,
10:00:30 2(APS), in sealed containers for consumption off
10:00:33 premises only at or from that certain lot, plot or
10:00:36 tract of land located at 6425 County Line Road, Tampa,
10:00:40 Florida, as more particularly described in section 2
10:00:43 hereof, approving waivers as set forth herein, waiving
10:00:46 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
10:00:49 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
10:00:51 conflict, providing an effective date.
10:00:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:00:58 Record your vote.

10:01:07 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:01:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 52.
10:01:11 Anyone wishing to address council on item 52?
10:01:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:01:16 >> Second.
10:01:17 (Motion carried).
10:01:19 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance being presented for
10:01:21 second reading and adoption.
10:01:22 An ordinance approving a special use permit S-2 for
10:01:25 alcoholic beverage sales, small beverages regardless
10:01:27 of alcoholic content, beer, wine and liquor, 3 PS in
10:01:32 sealed containers for consumption off premises only at
10:01:35 or from that certain lot, plot or tract of land
10:01:39 located at 6427 County Line Road, Tampa, Florida, as
10:01:43 more particularly described in section 2 hereof,
10:01:46 approving waivers as set forth herein wavering certain
10:01:50 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
10:01:53 findings providing for repeal of all ordinances in
10:01:55 conflict, providing an effective date.
10:01:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
10:02:02 Record your vote.
10:02:10 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.

10:02:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 53.
10:02:16 Item 53.
10:02:17 Anyone wishing to address council on item 53?
10:02:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:02:21 >> Second.
10:02:22 (Motion carried).
10:02:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
10:02:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, I move the following
10:02:28 ordinance upon second reading, an ordinance approving
10:02:30 a special use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales,
10:02:34 small venue, and making lawful the sale of beverages
10:02:36 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not
10:02:39 more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of
10:02:42 alcoholic content, beer and wine, 2(APS), in sealed
10:02:45 containers for consumption off premises only at or
10:02:48 from that certain lot, plot or tract of land located
10:02:51 at 3815 south Manhattan Avenue, Tampa, Florida, as
10:02:55 more particularly described in section 2 hereof
10:02:58 approving waivers as set forth herein, wavering
10:03:00 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
10:03:03 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
10:03:06 conflict, providing an effective date.

10:03:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:03:12 Record your vote.
10:03:23 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent
10:03:24 at vote.
10:03:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 54.
10:03:27 Anyone wishing to address council on item 54?
10:03:33 >>> Rick Hampton, 306 E. Oak Avenue. I have been
10:03:36 sworn.
10:03:38 On this item, you left me two weeks ago with a
10:03:41 homework assignment which was try to get with our
10:03:44 neighbor as she expressed a concern about the
10:03:46 projects.
10:03:48 Her concerns basically were, was there any separation
10:03:52 on the project which we demonstrated there was a
10:03:55 concrete wall per code and a landscape buffer in
10:03:58 between her property and ours.
10:04:00 She was concerned about trash and rodents, and we
10:04:06 demonstrated that we are providing a dumpster within a
10:04:08 city-approved structure.
10:04:11 And she was concerned about traffic in front of her
10:04:14 house, and we demonstrated that the exit onto Carmen
10:04:18 was right turn only, exit only, so no traffic was

10:04:21 going in front of her property at all.
10:04:25 We wrote Mrs. Cabrera a letter on May 8th, a copy
10:04:29 of which I will pass into the record to which she
10:04:32 never responded.
10:04:33 In addition, my clients went to her residence on three
10:04:37 separate indications occasions, the 14th, 18th
10:04:44 and 20th and Mrs. Cabrera would not answer the
10:04:47 door to have any discussion with us so we feel we have
10:04:50 made as much efforts as we can.
10:04:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close, please.
10:04:54 >> Second.
10:04:54 (Motion carried).
10:04:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda?
10:04:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item 54.
10:05:00 An ordinance presented for second reading and
10:05:02 adoption.
10:05:02 An ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity
10:05:04 of 506 North Armenia Avenue in the city of Tampa,
10:05:08 Florida and more particularly described in section 1
10:05:10 from zoning district classifications RO-1 residential
10:05:13 office, office, professional/business, to PD planned
10:05:18 development, office, medical and

10:05:20 business/professional, restaurant, providing an
10:05:23 effective date.
10:05:23 >> Second.
10:05:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:05:27 Record your vote, please.
10:05:32 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:05:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Open number 55 for public hearing.
10:05:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
10:05:46 >> Second.
10:05:46 (Motion carried).
10:05:47 >>> Nicole --
10:05:52 Before you move forward, let me say staff may want to
10:05:54 start moving this way.
10:05:56 It's a few minutes after 10.
10:05:59 We want -- I want to be able to pull items next and
10:06:02 then move to staff reports by 10:30.
10:06:04 Thank you.
10:06:04 So hopefully they are watching.
10:06:07 We are going to deal with pulled items first and then
10:06:11 deal with the 10:30 items.
10:06:12 Thank you very much.
10:06:13 >>> Mr. Chairman, I have not been sworn in.

10:06:18 (Oath administered by Clerk)
10:06:25 I was coming before you to make a presentation on
10:06:28 ad valorem tax exemption application.
10:06:30 This property is located on 1302 north 23rd
10:06:35 street.
10:06:38 It's on the corner of east 2nd Avenue and north
10:06:42 23rd.
10:06:45 It was constructed in 1925, a simple wood structure
10:06:48 with brick homes, wood siding.
10:06:53 This is the property prior to restoration,
10:06:58 rehabilitation.
10:06:59 And this is after.
10:07:00 >> Wow.
10:07:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's nice.
10:07:05 >>> This is a typical worker's residence in the early
10:07:10 20th century.
10:07:11 We have a side elevation before rehabilitation.
10:07:14 This is after.
10:07:22 This is an interior shot.
10:07:26 This is after.
10:07:31 This was funded by the trust fund.
10:07:34 And this is the last picture of the kitchen.

10:07:38 The owner is Ybor Havana LLC and they have done an
10:07:53 incredible job.
10:07:55 That concludes our presentation.
10:07:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:07:57 This is obviously one of the most pleasant things we
10:08:00 deal with as council members.
10:08:01 But the trust fund money is available to anyone within
10:08:04 Ybor or Tampa Heights or a portion of restoration.
10:08:09 >>> I'm not sure exactly how much but restorations in
10:08:14 historic homes in historic districts.
10:08:16 >> And the trust fund was created from the sale of
10:08:20 homes.
10:08:21 It's one of the most progressive programs the city
10:08:23 has, and I hope that as we move forward we are able to
10:08:26 take advantage of it in other areas.
10:08:29 I want to bring to council's attention that Palmetto
10:08:31 Beach has been studied as -- you know how we are
10:08:35 supposed to be getting the money from Washington to
10:08:43 create the connector between I-4 and the port.
10:08:50 As that construction takes place it's going to
10:08:53 obviously impact Palmetto Beach.
10:08:55 The consultants hired by FDOT looked at Palmetto Beach

10:08:59 and said this area needs to be protected.
10:09:01 And I wonder if there might be the opportunity to see
10:09:05 some reinvestment in the historic fabric of Palmetto
10:09:07 Beach as we move ahead with that project in a similar
10:09:11 way that we are seeing parts of Ybor approved by this
10:09:14 trust fund.
10:09:14 I think it's a win-win-win that we have seen in Ybor.
10:09:18 And I think -- do we need to officially ask you all to
10:09:22 bring the Palmetto Beach nomination to us?
10:09:27 After we do this, let's do that.
10:09:31 >>MARY MULHERN: That's a great idea.
10:09:33 I think it's all pretty industrial where that
10:09:35 connector is going through Ybor.
10:09:37 But if there's anything there --
10:09:41 >> The residential areas.
10:09:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Do we know that for sure that there's
10:09:45 no houses or anything that's going to be affected?
10:09:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If I may speak to that,
10:09:49 Mr. Chairman.
10:09:52 The woman that's the consultants hired to do the Ybor
10:09:56 study, also hired to do Palmetto Beach, and they
10:09:59 literally realign the projects so it wouldn't majorly

10:10:02 impact the homes.
10:10:03 The good news is we are not losing any homes.
10:10:05 The bad news is we aren't getting any federal money to
10:10:07 redo other homes because of that.
10:10:09 But the federal money did go for the study to
10:10:11 establish exactly where the historic district should
10:10:13 be.
10:10:14 And after we move on this, I would like to ask you all
10:10:18 to bring that before us.
10:10:24 Move to close.
10:10:25 >>REBECCA KERT: If you could move on the to the other
10:10:27 items.
10:10:28 We have an ordinance coming down that you could do
10:10:30 first reading today rather than come back.
10:10:35 It will be down in a few minutes.
10:10:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: While we are waiting for that then,
10:10:39 I would like to ask --
10:10:40 Before we do that let me take any public comment on
10:10:42 this item, any public comment.
10:10:45 We will close the item and read the ordinance when it
10:10:47 comes.
10:10:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.

10:10:49 >> Second.
10:10:49 (Motion carried).
10:10:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:10:53 My motion is that we ask the administration to bring
10:10:55 to council at the next meeting the Palmetto Beach
10:11:00 historic district nomination that's been prepared, not
10:11:05 using city money but using federal money from the
10:11:08 study that was done to look at the expansion.
10:11:10 So that's a win for us.
10:11:11 >> Second.
10:11:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Procedurally, what are you
10:11:17 suggesting?
10:11:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: They have already done the work.
10:11:19 They need to bring it to us, to ask legal to write it
10:11:22 up as an area to be protected.
10:11:30 That's number 55.
10:11:31 This is -- maybe we should have a staff report.
10:11:35 So my motion would be that we get a staff report on
10:11:37 the work that's been done in Palmetto Beach in terms
10:11:40 of identifying the historic structures for next
10:11:43 council meeting.
10:11:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And my only hesitation is community

10:11:48 input.
10:11:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Oh, absolutely.
10:11:51 Sure.
10:11:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We haven't discussed this in a long
10:11:54 time and I want to make sure the community is fully
10:11:56 engaged from Palmetto Beach.
10:11:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
10:12:00 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
10:12:02 It's certainly appropriate to have an update.
10:12:05 But there's an HPC process before it comes to you.
10:12:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Sure.
10:12:13 So what we'll have is a report.
10:12:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On the status of it, okay?
10:12:16 Moved and seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:12:19 Moved by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:12:21 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:12:23 Opposes?
10:12:23 And that is set to come back at our next regular
10:12:27 scheduled meeting.
10:12:27 Okay.
10:12:28 Under staff reports.
10:12:31 Okay.

10:12:32 We will move now to all the pulled items.
10:12:37 The first item is number 9 by Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:12:41 Do you want to state your question?
10:12:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
10:12:49 I, as a usual when these come up, had a question about
10:12:54 just part, the decrease in the contract amount for
10:13:00 Kiley Gardens repairs by $38.
10:13:03 I would like to know what that decrease is, what we
10:13:08 are attributing that to, why are we saving that much
10:13:10 money?
10:13:13 >> David long, contract administration.
10:13:16 On the second page of the agenda item, speaks to a
10:13:21 decrease, a 38,000 decrease.
10:13:24 It's for the direct purchase of the lighting fixtures
10:13:29 that are part of the project.
10:13:30 So while we are reducing the contract amount we are
10:13:33 not reducing the scope amount.
10:13:35 We are simply using a mechanism that allows to us buy
10:13:38 these direct, and it will generate about $2,000 in tax
10:13:41 savings that remains in the contract contingency.
10:13:47 >>MARY MULHERN: 2,000.
10:13:49 But am I misunderstanding this?

10:13:52 It says decreasing the contract amount by $38,000.
10:13:57 >>> The contract provides for the contractor to buy
10:14:04 those fixtures and paying the tax on that.
10:14:06 That money is in the contract.
10:14:07 By pulling the cost of the -- the direct cost of those
10:14:11 lights out and the city purchasing them, that leaves
10:14:14 $2,000 in the contract as contingencies that would
10:14:17 otherwise go to the contractor as payment of the
10:14:21 contract.
10:14:23 >> But why does it say it's decreasing by 38,000, not
10:14:26 2,000?
10:14:28 >>> Because we are taking the 38 out of the contract
10:14:31 so the city can buy the lights for 38 --
10:14:34 >> I'm sorry.
10:14:36 Okay.
10:14:36 So we are buying the --
10:14:38 >>> Correct.
10:14:39 >>MARY MULHERN: Then my question or suggestion for
10:14:41 consideration is perhaps that $2,000 in savings that
10:14:50 was budgeted for this could go toward restoration of
10:14:55 the park, buying some trees, the trees that the city
10:15:00 cuts down, buying some replacement trees.

10:15:03 >>> At this point that amount remains in the contract
10:15:06 as contingency.
10:15:07 First priorities will go to any direct related items
10:15:11 to the scope that we are doing now.
10:15:12 For example, if we find a panel at the amphitheater
10:15:18 that needs to be replaced or needs to be removed, we
10:15:20 will deal with those kind of items first before we
10:15:23 spend --
10:15:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
10:15:26 Well, it brings up -- maybe I would like to ask for
10:15:28 the report as a motion then.
10:15:35 The savings compared to the budget for this contract,
10:15:39 for the Kiley garden part of it, if we could see how
10:15:42 much money we saved of in comparison to the original
10:15:47 budget, and I would like to ask that we set that money
10:15:52 aside, and we look into setting that aside, perhaps,
10:15:58 to go towards repairing Kiley and relandscaping it
10:16:07 with some of the original trees or something close to
10:16:11 that.
10:16:12 Maybe this would be an amount that the city could
10:16:17 donate to the foundation.
10:16:21 There is a foundation, right?

10:16:23 Friends of Kiley.
10:16:24 So it's just something for consideration, if we could
10:16:28 put on a future meeting, maybe in a couple of months.
10:16:33 Or in a month.
10:16:34 We won't be here much in July.
10:16:36 So maybe in June, we could just talk about that, have
10:16:38 a discussion about that with perhaps Karen Palus and
10:16:43 you or whoever on staff might be available to talk
10:16:47 about that.
10:16:50 >>> Just a couple of comments.
10:16:51 One is, I can prepare you a report that will show you
10:16:56 the savings for that part of the project and what any
10:17:00 expenditures have been, and will share with you it is
10:17:03 a relatively small number compared to what it's
10:17:06 facing.
10:17:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
10:17:08 Well, it will be a short report then.
10:17:10 You can just give us a number.
10:17:11 That will be great.
10:17:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So your motion is requesting for a
10:17:14 report on this item at our last board meeting in June?
10:17:20 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.

10:17:20 Under staff reports.
10:17:21 >>> I ask you to pass this item today.
10:17:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
10:17:27 >>MARY MULHERN: I have something else I wanted to say
10:17:30 on this and then I'll move the motion.
10:17:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, it's been moved and seconded by
10:17:35 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:17:36 All in favor say Aye.
10:17:39 (Motion carried).
10:17:41 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to mention that the downtown
10:17:42 partnership is having in their downtown debriefing
10:17:46 series on Wednesday, next Wednesday, May 27th --
10:17:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is it Wednesday or Tuesday?
10:17:55 >>MARY MULHERN: This says -- it is May 27th.
10:17:59 Whatever day of the week that is.
10:18:05 It is May 27th.
10:18:06 But we can double check it.
10:18:08 7:30 to 8:00.
10:18:11 There is networking, and from 8 to 9 is breakfast and
10:18:14 a panel discussion on Kiley Gardens.
10:18:18 Hopefully people will be able to get up early and come
10:18:21 and find out what's happening with that.

10:18:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need a motion to approve item
10:18:29 number 9.
10:18:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, I'm sorry.
10:18:32 Move to approve item number 9.
10:18:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved, and seconded by Councilwoman
10:18:36 Saul-Sena.
10:18:37 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:18:39 Opposes?
10:18:39 Okay.
10:18:40 Item 14.
10:18:43 >>> I'm also here on 17.
10:18:50 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, that was me, too.
10:18:52 I'm sorry, David.
10:18:53 I just wanted to know if -- I'm just hoping that this
10:18:56 upgrade would be something that would be creating some
10:19:01 energy savings.
10:19:02 I just wanted to know what in particular, if could you
10:19:05 give us a description of what --
10:19:10 >>> This project provides for the replacement of the
10:19:12 air handlers and TLMB that are 30 years old, which by
10:19:19 and large parts are no longer available for, and it's
10:19:21 estimated at this point we are losing maybe as much as

10:19:23 10% of our air volume just through these units alone.
10:19:26 And so by replacing them, we will plug significant
10:19:31 loss of air and result in a savings.
10:19:34 >>MARY MULHERN: You get a green star for that one.
10:19:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Motion to approve 17.
10:19:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:19:43 (Motion carried)
10:19:45 Item 14.
10:19:48 Someone pulled item 14.
10:19:50 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, I pulled that for Steve
10:19:54 Daignault or chuck Walter or someone.
10:19:57 But you know what?
10:19:58 I can ask this question and maybe Linda or someone
10:20:01 will know the answer.
10:20:03 Linda, can you look at item 14?
10:20:07 Are you looking at it?
10:20:14 Is this the money for Lake Kipling, as far as you
10:20:16 know -- you may not know the answer to this --
10:20:20 Council Miranda is the chairperson.
10:20:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to make sure that this
10:20:26 is going toward what the original purpose was when we
10:20:29 got the grants through SWFWMD, and I think it was

10:20:35 matching for the federal grants, we got through funds
10:20:41 through Congressman castor, it might have been
10:20:44 Congressman Davis at that point, for the Lake Kipling
10:20:48 portion of it.
10:20:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's a chuck Walter question.
10:20:55 >> Let's just hold that.
10:20:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 24.
10:20:58 Congressman Dingfelder.
10:21:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If you could explain 24.
10:21:20 It starts out as a scrivener's error, but it relates
10:21:23 to a renewal of a mowing contract?
10:21:29 >>GREG SPEARMAN: That is correct, councilman
10:21:32 Dingfelder.
10:21:32 There is actually good news under this contract.
10:21:34 It was awarded two years ago in June, and for 158,321.
10:21:43 This particular contract included 13 mowing cycles.
10:21:48 The second year of the contract, stormwater decided
10:21:50 that they did not need to have as many mowing cycles.
10:21:54 And so it was reduced from 13 to 10, and it saved the
10:21:57 city $19,000.
10:22:00 This year was yet reducing the numbers one more time
10:22:06 down to 10 so going to save an additional 14.

10:22:10 So since the inception of the contract we are savoring
10:22:12 about $33 that you total.
10:22:14 And there was a scrivener's error on the dates.
10:22:16 And we are asking you to approve the motion to renew
10:22:19 the last term of the contract.
10:22:21 And also to correct the scrivener's error.
10:22:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The question I had, Greg, this is
10:22:28 just sort of a run of the mill contract for us.
10:22:31 We have a lot of mowing contracts in different
10:22:34 department as cross the city.
10:22:37 Including this one.
10:22:40 And I don't know, it looks like, I guess, we adopted
10:22:45 this for the first time a couple of weeks ago and now
10:22:47 we are just fixing a typo or something.
10:22:50 >>> That's correct.
10:22:51 >> I am not going to try to stop this one.
10:22:54 Obviously we pass passed it a few weeks ago and we
10:22:58 need to go forward with it to make sure that the
10:23:00 mowing continues.
10:23:02 My question is this.
10:23:03 And I had a quick discussion with Chip Fletcher as
10:23:05 well, our attorney.

10:23:09 It seems to me, especially in the contract now, down
10:23:17 from where it was two years ago, the labor costs have
10:23:21 to be down because everybody is desperate for work,
10:23:25 the city is hurting for money, and so -- and I'm
10:23:28 sorry, I didn't catch this on May 1st, because if
10:23:31 I had, I don't think I would have supported it.
10:23:34 But, you know, why wouldn't we have just rebid this to
10:23:39 see what was out there, you know, in terms of the
10:23:44 price for mowing?
10:23:47 And then I have a second part of that question.
10:23:50 Well, go ahead and answer that part.
10:23:52 >>GREG SPEARMAN: We looked at the bids from last time
10:23:55 >>GREG SPEARMAN: We did have several tie bids, when we
10:23:59 compared this particular contract.
10:24:01 So that was a concern.
10:24:02 In terms of whether or not we would get any better
10:24:05 price.
10:24:06 The second thing is when we looked at reducing the
10:24:09 number of mowing cycles we were not convinced we would
10:24:14 get any more than $14,000 in savings.
10:24:16 And the third point is despite the fact that we
10:24:19 reduced the number of mowing cycles by 23%, when you

10:24:26 look at all those factors combined, we thought this
10:24:28 was probably a pretty good deal and do it for one last
10:24:32 time.
10:24:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I appreciate the logic behind
10:24:36 that but it's still a $100,000 mowing contract in,
10:24:39 that ballpark.
10:24:41 So, you know, I guess my next question, sort of what I
10:24:45 discussed with Chip, is when we get to these
10:24:48 situations, I know your staff makes some phone calls
10:24:51 and does sort of an informal analysis.
10:24:54 >>> That's right.
10:24:54 >> What I asked Chip was, were there any legal
10:24:57 constraints as to why we can't actually put a bid out
10:25:00 on the street, okay, everyone though we have a
10:25:02 renewal, let's say, coming up in June, why can't we
10:25:05 put a bid out on the street for this thing in, let's
10:25:09 say, March, and actually feel the market out in a
10:25:14 formal context, and then if the bids come in, you
10:25:18 know, if the bids come in lower, then we make the
10:25:21 award to the lower bid and we don't renew the
10:25:23 contract.
10:25:24 If the bids come in higher, then we renew the

10:25:29 contract.
10:25:29 And it would give us flexibility.
10:25:31 I know it's a little unorthodox, and that sort of
10:25:34 thing, but it just seems to me that -- in these budget
10:25:38 times, especially, you know, when we have an
10:25:41 opportunity to save 5,000 or 10,000 a year by doing
10:25:44 this, and I know it creates a little more staff work,
10:25:46 we should consider doing that.
10:25:51 >>GREG SPEARMAN: We are tight with our resources,
10:25:58 councilman Dingfelder, and we really get a sense,
10:26:01 particularly when we talk about the government
10:26:03 entities of more contracts, what they are doing, what
10:26:06 they are seeing price decreases.
10:26:08 If we have any indication at all it's really to our
10:26:10 advantage to put it back out and we'll do that.
10:26:12 But in all of our research, we didn't find any strong
10:26:15 indicators.
10:26:17 >> And I know you are not here with us every week.
10:26:19 But every week since April 1st or since the middle
10:26:22 of March we had landscape contractors here in front of
10:26:24 us saying how they have no work, okay, because of the
10:26:28 drought, because of our water restrictions, et cetera,

10:26:33 et cetera.
10:26:34 That would just lead me to conclude if they don't have
10:26:37 any work, then we could rebid this and maybe save some
10:26:40 money.
10:26:41 I don't know.
10:26:41 I just hope you keep in the mind as you go down the
10:26:44 road.
10:26:44 .
10:26:45 >>GREG SPEARMAN: We will.
10:26:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you Mr. Chairman.
10:26:51 And I'll move the item number 24.
10:26:53 >> Second.
10:26:54 (Motion carried)
10:26:56 Councilman Miranda, item 30.
10:27:02 >>MARY MULHERN: It looks like chuck Walters is here
10:27:05 for my number 9.
10:27:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is he here?
10:27:07 Okay.
10:27:10 Number 14.
10:27:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Is it 14?
10:27:15 >> Yes.
10:27:15 14.

10:27:16 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah.
10:27:17 Did you hear what my question was?
10:27:21 >>> I'm sorry, I didn't.
10:27:23 >> It's the same question I always ask.
10:27:25 I just want to know, this is the SWFWMD.
10:27:31 Is this the matching money for the million dollars we
10:27:35 got for -- is this the same thing?
10:27:41 >>> No, it's not, but it is related --
10:27:43 >> Is this Elle Montague?
10:27:47 >>> Yes.
10:27:47 >> That's what I wanted to know.
10:27:49 So my question is, exactly what -- I thought I had a
10:27:58 breakdown here of which projects.
10:28:03 I thought I had it.
10:28:05 In your backup, you had which lakes they were
10:28:09 somewhere?
10:28:10 >>> Yes.
10:28:10 That is in there.
10:28:11 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know why I'm not finding it
10:28:15 now.
10:28:15 The question for me is what exactly you are doing.
10:28:21 And these, some of the ones that were actually named

10:28:25 in that original -- the contractor that bid for -- oh,
10:28:40 here, this is number 15.
10:28:41 That's why I'm confused.
10:28:43 Are they related, 14 and 15?
10:28:46 >>> Yes, ma'am.
10:28:46 We are basically closing out these contracts.
10:28:48 We have completed the work.
10:28:51 >> All right.
10:28:52 Then I will just, if it's already been done, then I am
10:28:56 not going to take time.
10:28:58 I'm sorry, I didn't notice it until this morning or I
10:29:01 would have called you and a not dragged you over here.
10:29:03 But thank you.
10:29:04 And I'll just move item 14.
10:29:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:29:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:29:13 Opposed?
10:29:14 Okay.
10:29:15 Other pulled items.
10:29:17 Mr. Miranda.
10:29:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll move to item 34 then, an item
10:29:21 that was pulled by me.

10:29:22 On item 34, I wanted someone from staff to come
10:29:27 provide me with a summary.
10:29:30 I had some more questions on that.
10:29:32 That 34 item that we spend a million dollars on temp
10:29:37 services.
10:29:38 Do you want to speak to that?
10:29:39 >>GREG SPEARMAN: On this particular item, council, we
10:29:45 do have temporary personnel services contract in place
10:29:49 to meet critical staffing needs within the city.
10:29:53 Whenever we have retirement, or whenever there's city
10:29:56 vacancies.
10:29:56 We have to be able to operate our departments.
10:30:00 For example, in technology and innovation, we have had
10:30:03 to have a web developer, just to give you an idea.
10:30:09 Stormwater, wastewater project manager, and the
10:30:12 wastewater department technician, water production,
10:30:16 environmental scientist and water administration, you
10:30:18 have to have a water restriction enforcement.
10:30:23 So these are services that we use on a temporary basis
10:30:26 to fill critical needs within the city whenever there
10:30:29 is a vacancy or whenever we have people who retire
10:30:32 from the organization so we can actually get those

10:30:36 positions filled.
10:30:37 >> My point is based on a memo that I received, these
10:30:40 were due to layoffs or retirement.
10:30:44 My concern is that we are spending over a million
10:30:47 dollars on temp services.
10:30:50 I mean, we got layoffs at a time when we couldn't fill
10:30:54 these positions to have these jobs, for persons who
10:30:57 everybody laid off?
10:30:59 >>> These positions, councilman Scott, get vetted by
10:31:04 the administration through the human relations office,
10:31:07 chief of staffs, and where it makes sense to fill a
10:31:09 critical need, which has always been the
10:31:11 administration's position, however, until such time as
10:31:15 they are appealed, we have to have the service
10:31:17 intended to be provided by the department.
10:31:21 >> I guess my point is we are spending over a million
10:31:24 dollars.
10:31:27 On temporary service ever.
10:31:30 We are laying people off.
10:31:31 And laying more people off.
10:31:34 That's just a lot of money for temp services.
10:31:38 I'm concerned about that.

10:31:39 >>GREG SPEARMAN: I understand.
10:31:41 We are not paying in terms of benefits, we are not
10:31:45 paying in terms of longevity, things of that nature.
10:31:47 Only when the position is needed to be filled to meet
10:31:50 a critical need.
10:31:53 I know the administration is looking at all areas
10:31:55 across the city.
10:31:56 And those areas where critical needs have to be met,
10:32:00 we have to have those temporary services.
10:32:02 Now, you have a motion before you today to extend this
10:32:04 contract.
10:32:05 We do not know if we are going to use that entire
10:32:08 amount of money.
10:32:09 But we do have that set aside just in case.
10:32:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the amount of money I understand
10:32:16 carries through the rest of the year.
10:32:17 We just approved 330,000 in March.
10:32:20 So we are be asked today to extend that.
10:32:26 Then in August we spent almost 200,000.
10:32:29 200,000 on the same positions.
10:32:31 So I guess at this point I need to see some kind of
10:32:36 analysis when we start talking about the cost savings

10:32:38 versus temporary, permanent versus temporary, because
10:32:41 a million, in fact 1.1 million just in two months.
10:32:47 >> We'll be happy to bring back a report to you.
10:32:50 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you for bringing that up because
10:32:52 I just this morning was concerned about it.
10:32:54 And now I'm even more concerned because when you give
10:33:00 those examples, a web developer, I'm a business of one
10:33:06 person and I have to have a web developer.
10:33:08 So I think that is a big enough job that the city
10:33:12 should definitely have a permanent person on.
10:33:14 And so if this is due to a layoff, we certainly
10:33:18 shouldn't be laying someone off because we have
10:33:20 someone else to put in that job.
10:33:22 That's hard for me to believe.
10:33:24 And I'm sorry that chuck Walter left, but a stormwater
10:33:28 person, too.
10:33:31 I find that surprising that we would be laying someone
10:33:33 off in that area.
10:33:36 And putting a temp in.
10:33:39 So it just sounds like -- I agree with Chairman
10:33:42 Scott -- a lot of money for that.
10:33:44 So I agree with you that with we should see a cost

10:33:48 comparison here, and also it might just be a question,
10:33:53 if we are talking about layoffs, and putting temps in,
10:33:57 I think we shouldn't be laying people off if we don't
10:33:59 have someone to put in that job already.
10:34:06 And this is kind of a bigger question for me.
10:34:11 And I don't know if you want to add to the your
10:34:14 request for a report.
10:34:15 And I have been asking for this for over a year,
10:34:19 probably two years when we first looked at the budget
10:34:23 the first year of our term.
10:34:27 The layoffs and the outsourcing of jobs were starting
10:34:32 in the Parks Department and the mowing contracts, and
10:34:34 a I think in solid waste.
10:34:36 And I had asked if we could see a report on
10:34:42 eventually -- a comparison of what we are now paying
10:34:45 to outsource this work, and what we have saved in
10:34:51 those layoffs that occurred, where that work was
10:34:55 replaced.
10:34:56 So this is probably a question for the Parks
10:34:58 Department on that.
10:35:01 But I don't know if that's the same sort of thing you
10:35:03 are asking for.

10:35:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's the same thing we asked for in
10:35:08 terms of comparison analysis.
10:35:12 Layoff or whatever, and now we are outsourcing these
10:35:15 positions through temp services.
10:35:17 So what is the savings, is what the question is.
10:35:19 What is the savings if the person were still employed
10:35:23 through the city?
10:35:25 >>GREG SPEARMAN: There may not be a layoff involved,
10:35:28 and it may be that there is a temporary need to have
10:35:32 some work done.
10:35:33 That work is done, with a temporary person.
10:35:36 Then as soon as the job is completed then they go
10:35:39 away.
10:35:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That needs to be clarified because
10:35:43 when I requested the information, it says two areas,
10:35:46 said layoffs, and retirement.
10:35:50 Which means retirement, someone has been there a long
10:35:54 time, they retired, right?
10:35:56 Two is a layoff, that means somebody has been there.
10:35:59 So it needs to be clarified.
10:36:00 And then if we can get again a cost analysis.
10:36:04 I think it will help us.

10:36:07 And then the other question is, in March, we voted and
10:36:14 approved 330,000.
10:36:17 Two months later now have 760,000.
10:36:21 In two months.
10:36:22 >> It's renewal.
10:36:25 The 300,000 was to get us through the end of the
10:36:29 initial -- the contract that's in place.
10:36:31 This particular request before you today is for the
10:36:35 next 12 months.
10:36:42 >>MARY MULHERN: I just have one other thing to say.
10:36:44 And just in terms of -- I'm not going to support this
10:36:47 motion.
10:36:49 And I think because of the economic situation we are
10:36:54 in, our biggest crisis is people are losing jobs.
10:36:57 And when they are losing government jobs, they are
10:36:59 losing their health care and all that, too.
10:37:02 So I think that we need to really think about the
10:37:07 economy in a little bigger picture of where we are
10:37:12 going to save a little bit of money by outsourcing as
10:37:15 opposed to we need to keep people employed, and we
10:37:18 need to provide jobs and benefits for people because
10:37:21 otherwise they are going to be unemployed and they are

10:37:23 going to become a burden on the system and they are
10:37:26 not going to have money to spend to put back into our
10:37:29 economy to pay their mortgage on their house, so their
10:37:32 property taxes are coming into the city.
10:37:34 So I think outsourcing, privatizing, is not
10:37:40 economically the best solution.
10:37:42 And I think as we see these contracts, I'm not going
10:37:45 to necessarily be able to support them, unless we can
10:37:48 get the kind of reporting that's going to show us it's
10:37:51 a large savings, and unless we can hear justification
10:37:54 for how in the bigger picture we are helping this
10:37:58 economy, our local economy.
10:38:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena, Councilwoman
10:38:02 Miller, councilman Dingfelder.
10:38:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to thank you all for pulling
10:38:07 this issue.
10:38:08 I think it's very important.
10:38:11 Oftentimes people are hired as temps as a way to do an
10:38:14 end run to avoid providing benefits, and that's my
10:38:17 concern.
10:38:17 And we know when somebody is going to retire, they
10:38:20 give us lots of notice, and we know when somebody is

10:38:22 going to be fired because it's an act of the city
10:38:25 administration.
10:38:25 So in those cases there's prior knowledge that there's
10:38:28 going to be a void in a role that you say is critical.
10:38:34 And a I think you plan for that.
10:38:38 And perhaps use somebody else who is going to be let
10:38:41 go by the city to be placed in that position.
10:38:44 I think additional information is needed before we
10:38:47 vote on this.
10:38:47 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to know, Mr. Spearman, how
10:38:53 many months do a temporary work?
10:38:57 >>GREG SPEARMAN: It can vary, Councilwoman Miller,
10:39:00 from as low as two months maybe up to four to six
10:39:04 months depending upon the scope of the project.
10:39:06 And some of these needs are not known ahead of time.
10:39:10 Sometimes we have a request from a department for a
10:39:12 special project.
10:39:13 We look within the staff, the organization, that
10:39:17 skill, and that expertise does not exist.
10:39:20 So we have a special need in our department, not able
10:39:24 to fulfill that need, you have to look to the outside
10:39:26 to get that expertise to perform that work.

10:39:30 In many instances that will be the case.
10:39:32 >> So sort of like a person that retires, why not get
10:39:35 someone in that department to replace the retired
10:39:38 instead of coming and using temporary work?
10:39:40 Why can't you do that?
10:39:41 >>> In many instances, Councilwoman Miller, the
10:39:44 workforce is already stressed with additional work
10:39:47 because of restructuring or because we have decided
10:39:51 not to perform the service and there's someone who may
10:39:57 have been retired, and this person now is taking on
10:39:59 extra work.
10:40:00 So because we don't want to cause additional burden on
10:40:02 the staff and be able to get the work done swiftly and
10:40:06 quickly, without creating any customer service issues
10:40:08 to the public or to the organization, we have
10:40:13 temporary help.
10:40:14 >>GWEN MILLER: If a person retires, instead of laying
10:40:18 off someone, put that position in the position where
10:40:20 the retiree.
10:40:21 Is you can't do that?
10:40:23 >>> That's something the administration will look at.
10:40:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.

10:40:28 Now you are saying a million and some dollars.
10:40:31 How many workers could have kept their jobs instead of
10:40:34 using a temp?
10:40:35 >>> That's something we have to go back and look at.
10:40:40 We'll have an answer for you on that, Councilwoman
10:40:42 Miller.
10:40:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:40:50 Ms. Miller, if somebody was a lower-paid worker,
10:40:55 50,000 including benefits, that would be 20 employees
10:41:00 for a million dollars.
10:41:02 Just rough math.
10:41:02 And you go from there.
10:41:06 I think council has asked a lot of good questions this
10:41:08 morning, and frankly, Greg, I think that you and the
10:41:13 other folks need to come back to us with some details.
10:41:17 Back in December 2007, council expressed really a
10:41:25 policy.
10:41:26 And we didn't put it down in writing, but we all
10:41:28 grumbled and made it very clear what our policy was on
10:41:32 privatization.
10:41:33 And I think that's sort of what we are hearing a
10:41:35 little bit here in a roundabout way, once again.

10:41:42 So I don't know if there's a motion on the floor yet.
10:41:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
10:41:47 We are only asking questions.
10:41:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll tighten up on the motion and
10:41:51 you all can add to it as you desire.
10:41:53 I would like staff to come back with this item two
10:41:56 weeks from now with a report to tell us what these
10:42:02 positions are, who these temporary people are, not by
10:42:09 name but by title or function, what are they doing,
10:42:12 who used to do it, how long has this temporary person
10:42:21 been on board, and at what cost per hour?
10:42:26 And specifically I would like to know over the last
10:42:28 three, four years, how many folks in the HR department
10:42:33 and any other departments that are using these temps,
10:42:37 how many people have been laid off.
10:42:40 Because HR was one of those funny ones.
10:42:44 We never really came to council or never came up in a
10:42:47 big way but I kept hearing rumors we were losing a lot
10:42:49 of people in the HR department due to reorganizations
10:42:52 and this and that.
10:42:53 And now you are saying that HR is one of the
10:42:55 departments that's needing help.

10:42:57 So, anyway, I don't know if you got all of those but
10:43:00 I'm sure you can get them from the clerk.
10:43:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me be clear, council.
10:43:06 Excuse me.
10:43:06 Early on, Councilwoman Mulhern had a question of
10:43:12 specific cost analysis as well as these layoffs.
10:43:17 I want to be sure that's captured in what we were
10:43:20 talking about earlier.
10:43:22 What you are doing is correct.
10:43:23 And we were talking also about getting a full cost
10:43:26 analysis with the layoffs versus could we hire
10:43:32 somebody.
10:43:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I respect that completely and
10:43:36 want you to add onto my motion whatever you want.
10:43:40 But a lot of times when you ask for analysis, you are
10:43:43 going to get a bottom line and see if there's a better
10:43:46 way to do it.
10:43:47 I would like for us to piece it out and say, who are
10:43:50 they, what are they doing, how much are they costing
10:43:52 per hour, how long have they been on board, those sort
10:43:55 of things so we can look at those details and come to
10:43:58 our own conclusions, in terms of how many weeks, I

10:44:01 don't know how many weeks that you all have desired.
10:44:05 >> Two weeks, I believe.
10:44:07 >> That's what I said, too.
10:44:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The question is whether that's
10:44:10 sufficient time.
10:44:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess it depends how big a hurry
10:44:14 you are to get this passed.
10:44:17 >>GREG SPEARMAN: I really couldn't speak to how long
10:44:19 it would take.
10:44:20 If it takes longer than that we would come back to
10:44:22 council.
10:44:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think Mr. Dingfelder covered the
10:44:26 areas that I was going to speak on so I yield.
10:44:28 >>MARY MULHERN: I was just going to say that I was
10:44:32 bringing up in kind of a larger picture and it sounds
10:44:38 like that's what Chairman Scott wanted to do.
10:44:40 It sounds like your motion is very specific
10:44:42 approximate to this item, and it sounds good to me.
10:44:45 I think maybe we should make -- I could make a
10:44:47 separate motion, and actually would like to develop
10:44:50 that over lunch and bring it back as a motion for a
10:44:54 staff report.

10:44:58 Maybe under new business.
10:44:59 That would cover.
10:45:00 And then you can ask whatever you feel --
10:45:06 Mr. Spearman, I just can't support this today.
10:45:08 I mean, this is a big number.
10:45:10 This is over a million dollars.
10:45:12 When I saw this, and went through it, that's why I
10:45:15 sent over and asked for more detail.
10:45:18 I appreciate that you responded in e-mail and that's
10:45:21 retirement and layoff.
10:45:23 But thank you.
10:45:25 So let's take the motion that's on the floor first.
10:45:33 Councilman Dingfelder's motion, seconded by
10:45:36 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:45:38 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:45:40 Opposes?
10:45:40 Now, on this item, we will want this item to come back
10:45:43 when?
10:45:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Two weeks.
10:45:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Two weeks?
10:45:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: With that report.
10:45:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: With that report.

10:45:53 Okay, so that's a motion.
10:45:56 Second on that?
10:45:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second:
10:46:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just for the purposes of the agenda,
10:46:01 would you then like this item to be joined, or
10:46:04 adjacent to that item under staff reports under
10:46:08 unfinished business?
10:46:09 >> That's correct.
10:46:10 Okay.
10:46:10 It's moved and seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:46:13 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:46:15 Opposes?
10:46:16 Okay.
10:46:17 And then Councilwoman Mulhern will come back under new
10:46:20 business with an additional motion, Mr. Spearman.
10:46:25 >>GWEN MILLER: I have another question.
10:46:28 Since this doesn't pass, having a million dollars, we
10:46:31 have some layoffs coming up soon.
10:46:33 Could that money be used to keep people on their jobs?
10:46:42 Would staff be utilized with the million-one something
10:46:46 to keep people on the jobs?
10:46:51 Could I put that --

10:46:55 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Councilwoman Miller, I don't know.
10:46:58 That will be something we will have to address in our
10:47:00 report.
10:47:01 >>GWEN MILLER: That's what I want you to bring back.
10:47:03 I want us to know.
10:47:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda, on item 31, 32,
10:47:07 33.
10:47:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, as you know I have
10:47:10 never supported these types of contracts, to Mr.
10:47:14 Spearman's credit he did call the office once I
10:47:17 notified everyone that I was going to pull this, and I
10:47:21 decided if I wanted to meet with him and I said, no,
10:47:25 because -- and my mind is not going to change.
10:47:29 Let me tell you what I don't like about that contract.
10:47:31 First of all I think that the city can do the same
10:47:33 work for equal to or lesser than those amounts.
10:47:39 I understand that for the first $7 million we pay 4%
10:47:44 for some service of computerized system.
10:47:48 That's $280,000.
10:47:52 After the $7 million it goes down to 1.5%.
10:47:57 No business can function on 1.5% in today's
10:48:00 marketplace with a cost of doing business of

10:48:02 employees, payroll taxes, insurance, et cetera,
10:48:06 et cetera.
10:48:07 Let me also say that in that same provision, in one of
10:48:12 them, the actual labor, there is a consultant shall be
10:48:15 compensated to the amount equal to one, 250% of the
10:48:21 extra direct labor cost plus reimbursement of the
10:48:24 actual cost of non-direct labor.
10:48:30 Let me tell what you that is.
10:48:32 I am going to read what labor costs are.
10:48:35 Labor cost is for a program manager, $120 an hour.
10:48:46 Construction manager, $90 an hour.
10:48:49 Estimator, $90 an hour.
10:48:53 Inspector, $78 an hour.
10:48:57 Contract administrator, $48 an hour.
10:49:02 Now let me read you what the non-labor costs are.
10:49:09 Short-term assignments including the actual costs
10:49:11 without markup.
10:49:12 That's nice.
10:49:13 Of communication, cellular phones, local
10:49:17 transportation expenses, such as vehicle rental,
10:49:20 leasing, fuel, maintenance, mileage a, insurance,
10:49:23 parking, and travel-related expenses such as airfare,

10:49:28 hotels, and meals.
10:49:33 It also includes without markup, one, labor costs,
10:49:39 actually the same items other than they word it
10:49:42 differently.
10:49:42 Local transportation expenses of rental, so forth, and
10:49:45 insurance, and parking.
10:49:47 I have never supported this.
10:49:49 I know they tell me that you have you save money.
10:49:54 I don't know if the city has ever made a comparison if
10:49:57 the auditors have ever picked out one, two, five or
10:50:00 ten of these projects, and have done analysis of what
10:50:04 the actual costs were to what we could have done it
10:50:07 for.
10:50:08 They are using mainly the same contract that we would
10:50:11 use, something breaks, we pick up the phone, they
10:50:14 call, we do it.
10:50:14 You pay a big price for relaxing.
10:50:22 I never liked to relax.
10:50:24 What I am saying is, not only in today's marketplace,
10:50:27 I have been voting against this before we had a
10:50:29 problem in the marketplace.
10:50:31 When you look at the things that are sent to us on

10:50:35 bids, there was two of them.
10:50:38 Mastek and cornerstone receive 99,000 each.
10:50:46 That's nice.
10:50:51 Before construction, Mastek America, Cornerstone and
10:51:01 Gordian.
10:51:01 I can tell you from my senses, I will not be
10:51:06 supporting this. I'm not asking any council member to
10:51:06 support this.
10:51:07 We made enough motions today to understand and send
10:51:10 the message that if we can do it in-house, and be
10:51:14 equal to or better than these four, that we should do
10:51:19 it.
10:51:19 And I would like to see a -- I would like to ask in a
10:51:24 motion for the administration, auditors, to pick up
10:51:29 and do a spot audit of some of these items, what the
10:51:33 actual costs were, where we actually bill $120 an hour
10:51:37 for program manager?
10:51:40 I don't know that.
10:51:44 I don't know what a program manager does of the
10:51:51 But to me it's high, and from the rates of 2005 to
10:51:58 presently, it says this.
10:52:00 Every January 1st, the terms of this agreement

10:52:06 should be adjusted by the consumer praise index or 5%
10:52:10 of the contract, whichever is less.
10:52:14 These contracts are for 60 months.
10:52:20 Let me tell you, I didn't support it then and I won't
10:52:22 be supporting it today but it's up to my other six
10:52:25 colleagues to do how they choose.
10:52:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:52:29 >>MARY MULHERN: I have been questioning those since I
10:52:31 started on council, and I had a lot of questions about
10:52:33 it.
10:52:34 And I remember not understanding the concept at all a.
10:52:37 So I'm not sure if I voted against these contracts
10:52:41 with you before.
10:52:42 But I'm going to do that today.
10:52:44 But I just wanted to point out something that I heard
10:52:47 today, which is kind of upsetting and relates to all
10:52:51 of these questions we have about contract companies,
10:52:58 is that we have laid off four of our internal auditors
10:53:02 recently, and I think that those auditors could be
10:53:07 saving us a lot of money if they were looking at all
10:53:10 of this.
10:53:10 And I hope -- and I believe that part of the

10:53:14 problem -- and maybe why we haven't gotten the reports
10:53:16 we have asked for -- is because the city hasn't been
10:53:20 auditing what people are doing when we give them --
10:53:24 when we privatize these contracts and give project
10:53:28 management to other people, you know.
10:53:30 Are we really finding out what's happening with those?
10:53:33 And I understand that we are not doing that.
10:53:36 So hopefully if we don't approve this, maybe some of
10:53:41 that money could go toward our internal audit
10:53:45 department to have the staff we need to look at all
10:53:48 these contracts.
10:53:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me get Councilwoman Saul-Sena, and
10:53:55 then I will come to Mr. Spearman.
10:53:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Rather than voting this up or down
10:53:59 today what I would rather do is hold it and get a
10:54:01 report back on exactly what the -- the questions that
10:54:05 Mr. Miranda raised are excellent questions.
10:54:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, this is a JOC program?
10:54:14 >>> Yes.
10:54:14 It's the competitively bid firm fixed price contract.
10:54:18 And it's designed for small to medium size
10:54:20 construction and renovation projects.

10:54:23 And that's exactly what the city has been using it
10:54:25 for.
10:54:25 The typical job size is about $50,000.
10:54:29 Okay?
10:54:30 And councilman Miranda is correct.
10:54:32 The administrative fee which is 4% does drop to 1.5%
10:54:40 but I want to remind council that there are many, many
10:54:43 consulting agreements that you approve for contracts
10:54:45 for capital projects throughout the City of Tampa.
10:54:48 And this 4% is within that 3 to 5% range in which
10:54:52 consultant fees normally cost.
10:54:56 In terms of the direct labor and the indirect labor,
10:54:59 councilman Miranda talked about, we may not be using
10:55:04 all those categories.
10:55:05 If it's a project where someone is going to come in
10:55:08 and renovate an office, we may not have to have all of
10:55:11 the categories.
10:55:12 But really it's project-specific driven.
10:55:15 So it's important to keep that in mind.
10:55:17 It's also important to keep in mind when you look at
10:55:19 the number of projects that we do in the City of Tampa
10:55:21 that we just don't have the staffing, we don't have

10:55:24 the time to do each and every one of them in a timely
10:55:27 fashion.
10:55:27 The other point I want to make is this is efficient
10:55:33 for the city.
10:55:34 We talk about how to be more effective and efficient
10:55:36 in government.
10:55:36 This is a way we do it.
10:55:38 I want to point out that when you look at the city,
10:55:41 you look at the State of Florida, off number of other
10:55:43 entities that absorb the JOC contract.
10:55:49 I have a list of agencies throughout the state that
10:55:51 use it.
10:55:52 The city of Miami Beach has used JOC for search years.
10:55:56 The city of Miami has used JOC for five years.
10:55:59 Palm Beach County, 14 years.
10:56:01 The Tampa Housing Authority, right here in Tampa, nine
10:56:04 years.
10:56:05 Miami-Dade county public schools, 18 years.
10:56:07 Broward County, three years.
10:56:09 Pinellas County, three years.
10:56:13 The city of Tarpon Springs just north of us, six
10:56:16 months.

10:56:18 Health systems in Miami.
10:56:20 Cape Canaveral used it for nine months.
10:56:23 So basically what I'm saying to you is that we are
10:56:29 beginning to see how effective JOC contracts are, how
10:56:32 they save staff time, how we get jobs done efficiently
10:56:36 and effectively.
10:56:37 The other point I want to make is this particular
10:56:39 contract has had a very strong impact on local
10:56:43 businesses.
10:56:44 When you look at the amount of local business
10:56:45 participation, particularly with FDE and MBE, we have
10:56:53 not had these kinds before ever.
10:56:57 JOC has been successful in terms of local stimulus if
10:56:59 you will, in terms of supporting our local economy,
10:57:01 because you have a lot of subcontractors.
10:57:05 None of this work is being performed by people from
10:57:08 outside, it's all being done local by local
10:57:10 contractors.
10:57:10 And so councilman Miranda's concern about software
10:57:17 system, this system is too complicated and too complex
10:57:19 for the city to build.
10:57:20 And if we went out to buy the system it would cost

10:57:22 millions of dollars to do that.
10:57:25 Our I.T. staff is already stressed as it is.
10:57:30 To use this system, pay as you go, is really the best
10:57:33 way for the city in terms of getting work done
10:57:35 efficiently, effectively, on a cost effective manner,
10:57:39 at the same time being able to have a local impact
10:57:41 within this community with all the subcontractors that
10:57:44 are employed under this contract is really a win-win
10:57:48 situation.
10:57:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not into a debate of this but
10:57:52 you named various cities and that's about 5% of the
10:57:54 total cities in the state.
10:57:57 Let me also say that I agree with everything you said
10:58:01 on a local contractor.
10:58:03 I agreed with everything you said minority
10:58:05 contractors.
10:58:06 I agree with everything you said and all of that falls
10:58:09 back to exactly what I said.
10:58:10 We can do the same thing without paying cornerstone,
10:58:16 Mastek who none of them have an office in the city
10:58:20 that I November.
10:58:21 Last time I checked one of them was in Ft. Myers.

10:58:23 The other time I checked the other was in Tallahassee,
10:58:26 Florida.
10:58:27 That was a year ago and I stopped checking.
10:58:29 So what I am saying is, this city -- I'm not asking
10:58:33 you to buy a computer program.
10:58:37 You know, when you look he at a state contract, and
10:58:42 this is not about you so please don't take it
10:58:44 personally.
10:58:45 The easy thing to say, oh, I have got it under state
10:58:48 contract.
10:58:48 I guarantee you, that you and I can buy 85 to 90% of
10:58:54 all the goods that we buy through state contract at a
10:58:57 lesser rate.
10:58:59 State contracts don't mean a hat to me.
10:59:02 Because usually they were negotiated and have been
10:59:05 performing and performing under the same old system.
10:59:09 The system in government has got to change.
10:59:12 We have got to get leaner and meaner and buy better.
10:59:15 And we can do that.
10:59:17 We do that in other areas.
10:59:21 We have a contract with shell.
10:59:23 I don't know it's productive but you buy all your

10:59:26 gasoline from shell so I imagine somebody did
10:59:28 something to get shell to give you the best buy
10:59:30 possible.
10:59:30 If not we wouldn't be using shell.
10:59:32 So what I am saying -- and I'm not even going to ask
10:59:36 the council.
10:59:37 I don't do that.
10:59:38 I just cannot vote for this because my conscience
10:59:41 tells me you have the expertise.
10:59:43 Your department has the expertise.
10:59:45 And I have never been shown from an auditing
10:59:48 standpoint that this makes sense.
10:59:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Spearman, let me give you a minute
10:59:56 to respond but we need a motion for the staff report
10:59:59 as our last pulled item.
11:00:00 Is that correct?
11:00:02 >>GREG SPEARMAN: The other thing we need to understand
11:00:04 is we do have several federal grants that are passed
11:00:08 through this contract.
11:00:10 We have negotiated with parks to do some work.
11:00:15 They have a federal grant which has a very, very tight
11:00:17 deadline.

11:00:18 So if this contract does not get moved, we are going
11:00:23 to love thousands of dollars.
11:00:26 We have to get this work done through a contract.
11:00:29 We have city contracts that have federal funding
11:00:31 requirements.
11:00:31 So we need to be in a position to be able to take care
11:00:34 of this and not lose our federal funds.
11:00:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me raise a question then, Mr.
11:00:39 Spearman.
11:00:39 Can those contracts hold off until we get a report
11:00:41 back on this in two weeks?
11:00:44 >>GREG SPEARMAN: We are at the task now of needing to
11:00:46 get these extended so we can get the work started.
11:00:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, Mr. Spearman, let me just send a
11:00:51 message to the administration.
11:00:52 >>> Okay.
11:00:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is going to be strong and firm.
11:00:56 Don't bring us stuff at the last minute and expect us
11:00:59 to pass it, because you all brought it at the last
11:01:02 minute.
11:01:03 That's unfair to this council when we have questions.
11:01:06 I am not a rubber stamp person.

11:01:08 I am going to have questions on everything that comes
11:01:10 before this board.
11:01:11 I expect that when you have things like this of this
11:01:14 nature, and tied to other funding, it should be
11:01:18 brought to us in a timely manner so we have an
11:01:21 opportunity to raise questions and to explore it.
11:01:24 You are telling me now, unless it passes today, that
11:01:27 we are going to lose a lot of federal dollars.
11:01:29 >>> With all due respect, Councilman Scott, we just
11:01:33 received notice from Hart that they got this money.
11:01:38 They have been meeting with us the past couple weeks.
11:01:40 We didn't know about it sooner than that.
11:01:42 They came to us and asked if we would work with the
11:01:44 city with JOC, we said yes, we would be happy to work
11:01:48 with them. But we did inform them that we had to get
11:01:48 the okay from the City Council.
11:01:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am not going to speak to the
11:01:52 subject matter but I want to ask the attorney a
11:01:55 question.
11:01:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
11:01:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: To the City Council attorney.
11:01:59 Let me ask this, if I may.

11:02:02 Things were presented to us right now about Hartline
11:02:05 and so forth and so on.
11:02:07 I'm assuming they are using the city as a
11:02:09 pass-through.
11:02:10 I'm not sure because I don't know what the contracts
11:02:13 were.
11:02:13 I have never seen them.
11:02:14 So on that case in point, if we are using the city
11:02:20 through Hartline to either get the grants and give
11:02:24 them back to Hartline, I don't know how that works
11:02:27 right now, or Hartline applies with a pass-through, or
11:02:32 Hartline made a contract with the city to do certain
11:02:34 things for them, I don't believe in my Ybor City law
11:02:38 degree that it makes any difference who does the work
11:02:41 as long as the work is done.
11:02:45 It ain't that you have to give to the somebody that's
11:02:47 going to charge you 4% for computer service.
11:02:49 It's about getting something painted, a sidewalk
11:02:54 completed, a building structure fixed, a stop area
11:02:58 where they need to have buses that travel to have a
11:03:02 nice area where people can congregate, to load and
11:03:05 unload from the buses without getting a hit from the

11:03:09 weather, hot, cold, rain or dry, and these are things
11:03:13 that I'm looking at.
11:03:14 I don't know the answer.
11:03:15 That's why I am turning to you.
11:03:18 Maybe you don't the answer either.
11:03:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't, but you ask a very good
11:03:21 question.
11:03:22 May I inquire of Mr. Spearman, Mr. Chairman?
11:03:24 I am trying to have a recollection.
11:03:25 Was the council apprised of the information that you
11:03:28 just told them in the backup material with regard to
11:03:31 Hartline and the like?
11:03:33 >>GREG SPEARMAN: We just had meetings with them very
11:03:36 recently on this particular matter.
11:03:41 Council, I do not believe, received communication on
11:03:44 that.
11:03:45 They came very, very recently with this request.
11:03:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So, council --
11:03:50 >> What you are saying then is council is unaware of
11:03:52 the relationships between the city and Hart relative
11:03:55 to these particular contracts.
11:03:58 >>> Well, let me respond this way.

11:04:00 We have a number of entities that enjoy the privilege
11:04:04 of benefit of piggybacking on city contracts.
11:04:08 We have within Hillsborough County relationship with
11:04:10 all the other government entities, where we can
11:04:14 piggyback on their contract and they can piggyback on
11:04:17 hours.
11:04:17 In this particular instance because we are at a point
11:04:19 of having to renew, the federal dollars, it's a reason
11:04:28 about making this work.
11:04:29 But the point I'm trying to make is it's not unusual
11:04:32 for a government entity to cooperate with one another
11:04:34 to piggyback on each other's contracts.
11:04:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: May I ask another question?
11:04:39 Does the maximum amount of $1 million include payback
11:04:42 from other agencies then?
11:04:43 >>> Does it include payback?
11:04:45 >> In other words, does the maximum amount a of $1
11:04:48 million mean that the city gets reimbursed certain
11:04:52 moneys as part of that million dollars?
11:04:54 >>> That's correct.
11:04:55 >> Has that information been provided to City Council?
11:04:57 Let me ask you this.

11:04:59 Has that been done in the previous JOC contract?
11:05:02 >>> Well, under this contract, JOC is simply going to
11:05:06 provide the services for Hart:
11:05:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: In the previous JOC contracts, were
11:05:13 there similar situations created?
11:05:16 No, so that would be a new situation?
11:05:17 >>> That would ab new situation.
11:05:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Councilman you Dingfelder, did you
11:05:21 have a question?
11:05:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, I think we are all pretty
11:05:24 familiar with this JOC approach.
11:05:30 Greg and staff brought it to us, about two years now?
11:05:34 >>> About three years ago.
11:05:35 >> About three years ago.
11:05:37 I think philosophically we can agree or disagree but I
11:05:41 think frankly it's a program that seems to be chugging
11:05:44 along pretty well, working pretty efficiently, saving
11:05:47 the city money, and also increasing opportunity for
11:05:54 local, small, minority businesses.
11:05:56 As well as women-owned businesses.
11:06:02 So, anyway, with all that said, in addition to these
11:06:07 Hart issues, and I think some of the Hart money might

11:06:10 be stimulus money that Hart has received and needs to
11:06:13 spend quickly, kind of use it or lose it from the
11:06:16 federal government.
11:06:17 So between all of that, I will be glad to move items
11:06:22 30 through 33 and move this along.
11:06:28 >> Second.
11:06:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like to make one motion to
11:06:34 have the audit department audit -- I'm sorry, go on.
11:06:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But my concern is -- and I supported
11:06:47 this in the past, Mr. Spearman knows that.
11:06:49 My concern is that the issue of the -- of bringing up
11:06:53 an item at the last minute, and we don't have all the
11:06:56 information.
11:06:57 And that was not a part of the backup.
11:07:04 It puts me in an awkward position, when I have been
11:07:07 supportive of the program, very vital program.
11:07:11 I mean, really, I would like to know how does this
11:07:13 whole program impact with MBE program?
11:07:20 Are those numbers high?
11:07:21 I don't know.
11:07:23 >>> I do have those numbers and I can certainly
11:07:25 provide those to you at a later time.

11:07:27 And we do track that with each and every project.
11:07:31 And the managers are very, very pleased with the
11:07:35 results in terms of what JOC has been able to do
11:07:38 locally.
11:07:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You all are making it hard for me
11:07:46 today.
11:07:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman.
11:07:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I wasn't talking about that.
11:07:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: But I guarantee you that Hartline
11:07:59 can piggyback with another agency and does not need
11:08:02 the City of Tampa to get what they need to get
11:08:04 accomplished, including the Pinellas system of buses,
11:08:10 or another agency.
11:08:11 Am I correct?
11:08:12 They don't need us.
11:08:13 >>> Well, the City of Tampa's contract, we have a
11:08:19 better rate than Pinellas County.
11:08:21 Their administrative fee is 5%.
11:08:23 Ours is 4.
11:08:24 And their contract would be 1.95.
11:08:26 The City of Tampa's is going to be 1.5.
11:08:29 So that's why they are looking because this is one of

11:08:31 the best JOC contracts.
11:08:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I call for the question.
11:08:36 Mr. Dingfelder had a motion to approve.
11:08:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I want to take the motion and make a
11:08:40 comment.
11:08:40 I will go ahead and support this today.
11:08:42 But you all need to do a better job in terms of giving
11:08:49 us the material in the backup on this.
11:08:52 You just gave us the information that we didn't know
11:08:56 anything about.
11:08:56 It wasn't in the backup.
11:08:59 And it's time sensitive.
11:09:00 So it puts us at a very awkward situation.
11:09:03 I am going to go ahead and support it today.
11:09:05 I will not promise that in the future.
11:09:09 There's a motion on the floor.
11:09:10 It's been moved by councilman Dingfelder.
11:09:12 Seconded by Councilwoman Miller.
11:09:14 All in favor?
11:09:16 Opposes?
11:09:16 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern and Miranda
11:09:21 voting no.

11:09:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like to make a motion that
11:09:25 the auditing department pick at random as many as they
11:09:31 deem fit, because I am not an auditor and I don't know
11:09:34 how many jobs they have had, and compare the charges
11:09:37 that we are charged with under this JOC program
11:09:42 without anyone asking or telling them which ones to
11:09:44 pick.
11:09:46 They pick their own.
11:09:50 And report back and give the mayor and this council
11:09:53 how many they have done and compare that to what they
11:09:56 could have done and had the same -- the same identical
11:10:00 contractors do the job.
11:10:01 I don't know, but I would make an assumption that they
11:10:05 are charging both ends.
11:10:10 This end, and bleeding off the subcontractors for a
11:10:13 certain percent back.
11:10:15 I'm not making an accusation.
11:10:17 But my senses tell me there's something wrong and my
11:10:22 senses sometimes are right.
11:10:24 >>> We'll take a look at it.
11:10:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
11:10:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

11:10:29 All in favor?
11:10:30 Opposes?
11:10:31 Okay.
11:10:31 Ms. Miller?
11:10:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Could you see if --
11:10:37 Oh, yes, do we have the ordinance for the item 55?
11:10:40 Is that ordinance ready?
11:10:41 >> They said it was going to be ready in two minutes.
11:10:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's not here.
11:10:51 >> Maybe they said one hour and two minutes.
11:10:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is item 55.
11:11:04 The ordinance.
11:11:05 Councilman Dingfelder.
11:11:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: For first reading?
11:11:10 Yes, it is.
11:11:11 An ordinance approving historic preservation property
11:11:14 tax exemption application relative to the restoration,
11:11:17 renovation or rehabilitation of certain property owned
11:11:19 by Ybor Havana LLC located at 1302 north 23rd
11:11:24 street in Tampa, Florida the Ybor City historic
11:11:28 district the same being more fully described in,
11:11:32 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,

11:11:34 providing an effective date.
11:11:35 And I just wanted to give a little shout-out to our
11:11:39 former Councilwoman Mary Alvarez along with current
11:11:44 Councilwoman Linda Saul-Sena who I think was really
11:11:48 important in spearheading this program, the state
11:11:53 program and making sure that the money from the
11:11:55 federal government came back into the community to
11:11:57 rehabilitate this beautiful home.
11:12:00 So anybody else who was involved.
11:12:02 I think Ms. Miller was there and Mr. Miranda might
11:12:04 have been there.
11:12:05 Kudos to you as well.
11:12:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
11:12:09 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:12:12 Opposes?
11:12:13 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
11:12:14 Second reading of the ordinance will be held June
11:12:16 4th at 9:30 a.m.
11:12:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is item 59.
11:12:21 >>CINDY MILLER: Director of growth management services
11:12:25 here on item at which is to provide you a report
11:12:28 regarding a reorganization and restructuring of the

11:12:33 permitting process of the construction division.
11:12:35 There has been information provided to you a couple of
11:12:38 weeks ago, basically a series of questions and
11:12:40 concerns that have come from a number of employees as
11:12:43 well as I'm sure other comments or questions. I think
11:12:52 that covers three classifications.
11:12:54 The timing of our reorganization.
11:12:56 There was also some disappointment as that there were
11:12:59 lower ranges of classifications in some cases.
11:13:02 And then concerns as to how we are approaching
11:13:11 particularly inspections, comprehensive inspections,
11:13:14 but we have comprehensive plan review as well, and
11:13:16 concerns as to whether there is any problem from a
11:13:19 safety standpoint. If we can go to the PowerPoint,
11:13:24 please.
11:13:25 I just want to mention and bring to your attention
11:13:29 this PowerPoint was presented to our employees in
11:13:33 March, also copied to Tampa City Council.
11:13:36 When it comes to looking at how we have approached the
11:13:39 reorganization of construction services, we have been
11:13:42 gradual.
11:13:42 We go back to 2006.

11:13:44 We originally had three divisions.
11:13:46 Part of what we initiated was combining this into one
11:13:49 division so we have better accountability.
11:13:51 And also, frankly, help to have preserve and increase
11:13:55 effectiveness and efficiency.
11:13:57 We then in 2007 developed a strategic plan.
11:14:03 2008, we retained maximus to do both a cost of
11:14:06 services and improvement study.
11:14:10 And part of this is our self-sustaining permit fees
11:14:15 and they included a reorganization of streamlining.
11:14:19 In 2009 then, we were getting ready to present to our
11:14:24 staff three comprehensive work units that were skill
11:14:28 based pay staff position, the facilitators, basically
11:14:32 the folks that directly interface with customers, the
11:14:35 plan reviewers, and the inspectors.
11:14:37 Let me mention what I am talking about skills-based
11:14:41 bay.
11:14:41 What we are trying to do is reward employees who have
11:14:45 taken the initiative for licensing and certification.
11:14:48 So that if they have additional licenses, if they have
11:14:51 additional certifications, if there are qualifications
11:14:54 approved by the state or other means, that we would be

11:14:57 able to have a promotion opportunity for them that
11:15:01 would, in effect, rate their pay.
11:15:05 We have also incorporated into this reorganization
11:15:07 that, yes, we know a number of folks may not have some
11:15:11 of these higher classifications or licenses, the
11:15:14 higher licenses or accreditation.
11:15:16 We intend, through our initiative, to provide the
11:15:19 training, whether that is in-house, bringing trainers
11:15:22 into the organization, or whether we need to send
11:15:25 folks to training, and whether we are providing that
11:15:28 training directly or reimbursing the employee upon
11:15:30 their achievement of that license or accreditation.
11:15:33 We are providing that at the city's cost because we
11:15:36 think it's just that important to be able to provide
11:15:38 this upward mobility opportunity to our staff.
11:15:42 I know you can't read this, even with my bifocals on
11:15:46 and off I can't see it but it's basically with the
11:15:50 reorganization we hoped to have with 93 positions.
11:15:52 The upper right hand corner shows 93 FTEs.
11:15:56 This is how we intended to take the aggregation of
11:16:00 various classifications in construction services, set
11:16:04 up on the left is the client facilitators, the front

11:16:08 desk responsibility, the center would be the plan
11:16:10 reviews, and the right-hand side would be our
11:16:14 services.
11:16:15 We hoped to be able to look at the it 3 classification
11:16:18 that is existed last year, and be able to then just be
11:16:22 able to move folks into these classifications by
11:16:25 offering the positions.
11:16:27 Now, one thing I will mention is that when it comes to
11:16:29 reorganization, our particular processes within the
11:16:33 city are not the easiest way to do it but we have
11:16:38 ended up to do whether it's small reorganization or
11:16:41 large of this time is we have had to lay off employees
11:16:44 and have them reapply for other revised positions.
11:16:47 And I mentioned to our employees, I am sorry that we
11:16:50 have to do it that way, but basically we found this to
11:16:53 be the fairest way, and it has been utilized
11:16:55 throughout the city over the past few years.
11:17:00 Now, I mentioned I wanted to go from 93 FTE to 93 FTE.
11:17:05 Unfortunately, the current state of our economy does
11:17:06 not let me do that.
11:17:08 We have seen just from last year to this year a 25%
11:17:13 reduction in our activity.

11:17:15 And basically 2007 is our base year.
11:17:17 So, frankly, our statistics are even a bit worse than.
11:17:21 So we found that down-sizing is necessary in order for
11:17:25 us to even get to the level we have been in the past.
11:17:30 Let me again remind that you historically in the best
11:17:33 years, permit fees have only recovered 35% of our
11:17:37 costs.
11:17:38 Enterprise funds and the general fund provides a
11:17:42 massive amount of the general fund being used to
11:17:44 develop our budget.
11:17:46 So what you see from what I showed you earlier is now
11:17:50 we have 73 FTEs that we have posted opportunities
11:17:53 for.
11:17:54 We have been doing it under a phase plan that was
11:17:58 shared with our employees.
11:18:00 All of the information has been available on the
11:18:03 I-net.
11:18:03 We have a question/answer document.
11:18:06 We have provided the re organization chart and other
11:18:08 new job descriptions.
11:18:09 Now, the next time line is something you have not seen
11:18:12 but I thought it would be helpful.

11:18:13 I mentioned maximus, the consultant we brought in.
11:18:16 Back in February 2008, we met with various members of
11:18:19 our own team, other city departments, there was a
11:18:24 quarterly meeting in January to sort of kick off the
11:18:27 study.
11:18:27 Keep in mind this goes back to February 2008.
11:18:32 I will go through the time lines and be able to show
11:18:34 you the two meetings, an advisory group which is small
11:18:38 contractors up to large contractors, as well as
11:18:41 stakeholders that also represents a trade.
11:18:44 And I will conclude there.
11:18:45 If there are any questions.
11:18:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:18:48 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
11:18:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:18:50 Way heard from the private sector is what they are
11:18:53 interested in is having an efficient process.
11:18:57 Because to them, for example, increased speeds are
11:19:00 less critical than the timeliness of going through the
11:19:02 process of making sure that when they come in to share
11:19:05 a project that everyone from the city who needs to be
11:19:08 at the table is at the table.

11:19:10 And that is a key part of that.
11:19:15 And I know today you are talking about the staff
11:19:19 positions.
11:19:20 But when you are working with maximus, when you are
11:19:24 thinking through this whole thing, did you keep that
11:19:26 uppermost in your mind as one of the goals of this
11:19:29 whole thing, is to be customer friendly?
11:19:32 >>> Absolutely.
11:19:32 Let me address it from two different viewpoints.
11:19:35 There is a position that was impossible to read in the
11:19:37 upper right-hand corner, development services
11:19:41 coordinator.
11:19:42 One thing we have heard -- and I know you hear it, and
11:19:46 we have heard it as part of the administration -- is
11:19:48 that we need to bring not just our department but
11:19:52 other departments to the table at the plan review
11:19:55 status, but also as a construction project is going
11:19:59 on.
11:20:00 That person is a new classification.
11:20:03 We have selected a person who has been previously a
11:20:05 plan reviewer, who is also bilingual, who will be able
11:20:09 to work with not only our customers but also with the

11:20:13 other city departments.
11:20:15 We will have presubmittals meetings, so we have a
11:20:19 contractor and the owner sitting at the table.
11:20:22 So that's one aspect.
11:20:23 Let's start it at the beginning.
11:20:25 The other situation -- and let me address from the
11:20:27 inspection standpoint -- John Barrios had mentioned at
11:20:31 a previous meeting that it might take five different
11:20:34 inspectors to do inspections, say on a single-family
11:20:38 house, in addition, not even just a new house.
11:20:41 What we are trying to do is having comprehensive
11:20:43 inspectors is again reward those inspectors.
11:20:47 Right now they have to have already at least one
11:20:50 license.
11:20:50 If they have a second or third license, it would give
11:20:53 them an opportunity for upward mobility.
11:20:55 Now, will we have that June 25th or July 1st?
11:20:59 No.
11:20:59 But what we do intend to do is if we have an a
11:21:03 electrical inspector, a plumbing inspector and a
11:21:06 building inspector, what we'll do is send that to you
11:21:10 together and do more of a team approach, as much as we

11:21:12 can based upon growth so that we are able to not be
11:21:17 constantly going back and forth, wasting trucks,
11:21:21 wasting fuel, so I just want to ensure the public, the
11:21:25 construction industry and our own employees that we
11:21:27 are not going to send a plumbing inspector to review
11:21:30 electrical.
11:21:32 Until we have an employee that has the appropriate
11:21:34 credentials, we are not going to let them do those
11:21:37 inspections.
11:21:38 And we intend to provide the training so that they
11:21:40 have that opportunity.
11:21:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That sounds great.
11:21:44 That sounds like it will meet the concerns I have
11:21:48 heard from the community.
11:21:50 My follow-up question is, after you implement this,
11:21:52 will you at six months or a year do some sort of
11:21:57 feedback with the construction industry and just
11:22:01 homeowners to hear how well it's going?
11:22:03 And I see in the audience T.H.A.N., and everybody is
11:22:07 interested in this being as user friendly as possible.
11:22:11 >>> We'll be happy to do.
11:22:13 That we already have established meetings with the

11:22:14 industry.
11:22:14 We meet -- last year I think we met with them three or
11:22:18 four times.
11:22:18 This year we were looking at two or so.
11:22:20 So every six months.
11:22:23 We meet with our stakeholders advisory.
11:22:25 >> Because the whole thrust of this reorganization is
11:22:29 will it help us be more efficient in terms of people
11:22:36 who need our service?
11:22:38 >>> Absolutely.
11:22:38 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Ms. Miller, according to the
11:22:41 report that was done, the maximus report, evidently in
11:22:45 the past, the department had employees paid out of the
11:22:54 general fund in support of the con oh instruction
11:22:56 services, seven people in the Parks Department, to
11:23:01 public works employees, and one unlicensed contractor
11:23:07 was all paid out of the general fund.
11:23:09 Correct?
11:23:11 >>CINDY MILLER: One clarification.
11:23:14 That is true that those have been at the time they
11:23:16 started their study in 2007, that that was the case.
11:23:19 The unlicensed activity detective, however, is a new

11:23:25 employee, and that was not paid out of the general
11:23:26 fund.
11:23:28 That unlicensed activity detective was part of the
11:23:30 revision in the permit fee restructuring we have done
11:23:33 the past couple of years, and that person is paid for
11:23:35 out of construction service permit fees.
11:23:38 They are not paid for out of the general fund.
11:23:42 >> What's happening with the cycle of construction
11:23:47 permits?
11:23:48 What is to say that this is going to be viable six
11:23:52 months from now because construction is down, and
11:23:55 therefore do you intend to raise the permits again a
11:23:59 year from now, six months from now?
11:24:01 >>CINDY MILLER: No, we do not intend to raise them to
11:24:03 from the standpoint of activity.
11:24:06 When we establish the permit fees that council
11:24:08 approved in 2008, let me refresh everyone's memory.
11:24:12 In 2008 we raised commercial fees by 75%.
11:24:16 We raised residential by 10%.
11:24:18 And that was -- we had meetings with the various
11:24:22 industry groups.
11:24:24 2009, a number of fees went down, because what we did

11:24:27 for the 2009 structure is figure out how much it cost
11:24:30 to issue a permit.
11:24:31 How much does it cost per single-family house?
11:24:35 How much does it cost for a 500 square foot addition?
11:24:38 How much does it cost for a 20 story office building?
11:24:42 We set the fees in such a way that on a case-by-case
11:24:45 basis we could recover our costs.
11:24:47 Unfortunately, the level of activity compared to our
11:24:52 staffing, we have 2007 activity to match our 93 staff
11:24:58 people.
11:24:59 Unfortunately, the reason why we are having to face
11:25:02 the reduction in force is because our activity is
11:25:06 lower.
11:25:06 The permit fee structure has really nothing to do
11:25:10 per se with the reduction in force.
11:25:13 It is because the activity level is so low that we are
11:25:16 having to reduce the number of employees.
11:25:20 So when it comes to permit fees, we feel the permit
11:25:23 fees are in the right position right now to be able to
11:25:27 recover the costs.
11:25:29 But unfortunately our costs are high because we have
11:25:31 too many people based upon the amount of work that is

11:25:34 being presented.
11:25:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Other questions?
11:25:38 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Ms. Miller, can I give you a copy
11:25:46 of what I gave to council?
11:25:48 All this information that's on this came out of a
11:25:54 report.
11:25:54 And looking at page 2 of the maximus report --
11:26:06 Page one of two.
11:26:18 125,000 for technology.
11:26:20 400,000 for vehicles.
11:26:23 50,000 for training and education.
11:26:27 License contractor detective.
11:26:32 Is that going to be paid from the system?
11:26:38 >>> We would not be able to pay these levels of what
11:26:41 this budget is.
11:26:42 Because, frankly, again, the activity, the amount of
11:26:45 business coming through the door won't generate this
11:26:48 amount of money.
11:26:49 So therefore we will not be spending these kinds of
11:26:51 dollars.
11:26:53 This was an example the unlicensed contractor
11:26:57 detective, we had told the industry representative

11:26:58 that we wanted to reduce some portion of their fee.
11:27:02 They said, we want you to do an additional tack-on,
11:27:05 surcharge in effect so we can pay for the detectives.
11:27:08 So we generated enough money to hire that detective.
11:27:12 When it comes to some of the other items, we won't
11:27:16 have that much money.
11:27:17 We won't be spending that amount of money.
11:27:21 When you see your sales in effect drop by 25%, you are
11:27:24 not going to spend 100 percent of your money.
11:27:26 We will only be able to spend 75%.
11:27:28 >> And how about the construction, building
11:27:30 renovations, $100,000?
11:27:35 >>> It is from the standpoint, we are trying to in
11:27:39 effect -- I mentioned sort of the team concept that we
11:27:42 are trying to do.
11:27:43 The building that we have is a three-story building
11:27:46 over on North Boulevard.
11:27:48 And what we are trying to do there is trying to open
11:27:51 up the space, basically get it into more of an open
11:27:54 team environment.
11:27:56 So instead of plans going from one desk to another
11:27:59 desk to another desk, we can have more of a small

11:28:03 conference team assembly area that they will be able
11:28:06 to review the plans all at one time.
11:28:08 We are trying to do more of an open space situation
11:28:11 which is what other departments have.
11:28:13 You may have also noted in that particular study that
11:28:15 frankly our consultants recommended in a different
11:28:20 building that we needed something more like a big box
11:28:22 store, all one floor.
11:28:24 And I said there's not a chance in the world that we
11:28:28 are going to be looking at a new building.
11:28:30 So we thought $97,000 in renovation was a great idea
11:28:34 compared to trying to look for another building.
11:28:36 So therefore we will be there for at least the next
11:28:38 several years as our lease continues.
11:28:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I don't think the City Council
11:28:43 should move on this so rapidly.
11:28:46 I think it needs more study, and looking at the
11:28:49 report.
11:28:50 I see it's flawed because we have some information in
11:28:52 there that's not true.
11:28:55 It's not going to hold up as to what's happening today
11:28:59 in the permitting process.

11:29:01 >>> Sir, we do believe it hold up, because they were
11:29:05 basing their information on where activity level was.
11:29:10 100 units of activity.
11:29:13 They based the pricing on 100 units of activity.
11:29:17 That pricing hasn't changed.
11:29:18 What has changed is we are now down to 75 units of
11:29:21 activity.
11:29:22 So, therefore, we are not collecting as much money.
11:29:24 But had we sold 100 units, we are only selling 75.
11:29:28 So, therefore, the maximus study frankly is holding up
11:29:31 very well.
11:29:32 The dilemma is that the amount of business coming
11:29:35 through the door is not.
11:29:36 That's our dilemma.
11:29:37 >> So you predict that business is going to
11:29:40 accelerate?
11:29:41 >>> I didn't say that, sir.
11:29:42 I said, one thing I mentioned in the slide is that we
11:29:47 do, at this point, we hope business stays flat.
11:29:55 I'm not hearing that it will.
11:29:57 I'm hearing that it could get worse.
11:29:59 But at this points I am hoping -- and I sincerely am

11:30:02 hoping -- that the amount of reduction in force that
11:30:05 I'm presenting today is as far as we have to go.
11:30:08 I'll be very honest with you.
11:30:09 I'm not sure when I was here before, but I was going
11:30:12 to talk with employees.
11:30:13 I basically encouraged them to attend a series of
11:30:16 meetings, but didn't require it.
11:30:19 I can't give them assurance that everything is going
11:30:21 to be bright in the future or even flat.
11:30:25 I wish I could.
11:30:26 I don't like being in this situation.
11:30:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to move.
11:30:29 >>> But that's our dilemma.
11:30:32 I do not believe that things are going to improve in
11:30:35 the very, very near future.
11:30:37 I'm hoping by next year we'll see some leveling off in
11:30:39 improvement.
11:30:40 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I had a meeting down in the
11:30:43 downstairs room, and I think we had 10 employees are
11:30:46 very unhappy with this change.
11:30:48 Okay.
11:30:49 They were not happy at all.

11:30:52 I think some of them you could probably cross-train.
11:30:54 Others you cannot because of the importance of their
11:30:57 inspections.
11:30:58 For instance, electrical.
11:31:00 Not everybody, you can't take a plumber out and tell
11:31:03 him he's going to be an electrical inspector because
11:31:06 he's never going to catch on, and we are dealing with
11:31:08 people's lives.
11:31:10 >>> I totally understand.
11:31:11 That but we are not requiring any employee -- keep in
11:31:14 mind our inspectors right now already have at least
11:31:17 one license.
11:31:18 All are qualified for at least one position.
11:31:21 Unfortunately, I just don't have the number of
11:31:23 positions to go forward with that we do now.
11:31:26 But all of those employees, an electrical inspector
11:31:30 now, could you be in a construction inspector level 2
11:31:35 with a reorganization.
11:31:36 Nothing changed from that standpoint.
11:31:37 We are not mandating that people get an additional
11:31:41 license at this time.
11:31:43 What we are saying is we'll give them the opportunity

11:31:45 to get the training for additional licenses, and then
11:31:48 hope in the future that we have the money to be able
11:31:50 to post those higher-paying jobs.
11:31:53 That's what we hope occurs.
11:31:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I hate the idea of losing jobs.
11:32:02 But I understand the reality that the jobs reflect the
11:32:05 activity in that department.
11:32:06 I hope that the increase in efficiency plays out and
11:32:11 makes sense, what you presented to us today is very
11:32:15 logical and seems like it will be more efficient and
11:32:17 more user friendly for our constituents.
11:32:19 And it's also my understanding that as a council we
11:32:26 can't tell you how to administer your department but
11:32:29 we can only share what we hear from our constituents
11:32:31 subpoena they want things to be as streamlined and
11:32:34 trance parents and timely as possible.
11:32:40 >>MARY MULHERN: I appreciate your briefing, and you
11:32:43 did explain pretty much what your plans are for
11:32:46 reorganization.
11:32:47 But councilman Caetano gave us a couple ever pages of
11:32:53 questions, and now I do have some questions, so I
11:32:56 would just like to just meet with you and talk to you

11:32:59 about some of these questions.
11:33:01 But I kind of feel, it seems to me really
11:33:04 counterintuitive to cross-train inspectors in trades
11:33:09 that they have been working in for years, and to not
11:33:13 have -- I mean, I think I would like to have some
11:33:17 discussion about that.
11:33:18 I know that that is your job and not mine.
11:33:20 But since we are hearing it from -- I'm hearing it
11:33:22 from private sector people, and now apparently from
11:33:25 employees that the idea of having -- not having just
11:33:32 the specific inspector and their trade do those.
11:33:37 It just doesn't seem to me to be a great idea.
11:33:42 But I'm just bringing this up now.
11:33:45 And I know it's not something that we talked about
11:33:48 earlier.
11:33:48 So I would just like to talk to you about it.
11:33:50 >>CINDY MILLER: I will be happy to schedule some time.
11:33:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much, Ms. Miller, for
11:33:56 your report today.
11:33:58 Item 58 real quick.
11:34:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item 58 is a result of a request by
11:34:07 council to be able to appoint people to the budget

11:34:10 committee without specific names.
11:34:12 I prepared a resolution for that.
11:34:13 Just have to move the resolution.
11:34:15 >> So moved.
11:34:16 >> Second.
11:34:16 (Motion carried).
11:34:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 57.
11:34:24 >>MARK HUEY: Economic development administrator for
11:34:25 the City of Tampa.
11:34:27 I was asked to appear before you regarding a contract
11:34:34 a few weeks ago with the Committee of 100.
11:34:36 For the benefit of the viewing audience, the committee
11:34:38 of 100 is an affiliate of the Tampa Chamber of
11:34:41 Commerce.
11:34:42 They are charged with recruiting and retaining jobs
11:34:46 for our community.
11:34:47 They have been around since the early '50s, and
11:34:51 around about 1980 the City of Tampa along with the
11:34:55 county began providing funds for their efforts, and
11:34:59 our contract that you approved is our way of
11:35:03 participating.
11:35:05 We, through that contract, provide just under $290,000

11:35:09 to the Committee of 100.
11:35:11 That leverage was over $400,000 from the county.
11:35:15 And as much from the private sector.
11:35:21 Our contract contains numerous controls and
11:35:24 deliverables for the Committee of 100.
11:35:26 This past year has been a year of significant change
11:35:30 for the Committee of 100.
11:35:32 The city, the county, and our private sector partners
11:35:35 have agreed that some new directions for the Committee
11:35:38 of 100 were important to put in place in order to
11:35:43 equip it to effectively compete for jobs in an
11:35:48 increasingly competitive environment, and increasingly
11:35:52 complex global economy.
11:35:53 So some of those changes are happening.
11:35:56 There is a new governance structure in place.
11:35:58 So it started at the top with a new cabinet that is in
11:36:01 place to oversee the work of the Committee of 100.
11:36:05 The mayor sits on that cabinet, along with the chair
11:36:09 of county commission and private sector leaders.
11:36:13 We have also brought in a new president to head up the
11:36:16 efforts of the Committee of 100, and Keith Norton is
11:36:21 here.

11:36:21 He's been here for five months, and I ask him to come
11:36:24 up for a minute to introduce himself and share with
11:36:26 you his priorities.
11:36:31 Having said that, I want you to know that our contract
11:36:34 next year, which we begin negotiating in the coming
11:36:38 months, will include much of the benefit from the work
11:36:43 that Keith is doing now in the new cabinet and will
11:36:46 reflect the priorities that are put in place by the
11:36:51 new cabinet structure.
11:36:52 So we look forward to bringing you that new contract
11:36:56 in the fall.
11:36:57 And I appreciate your continued support for economic
11:37:00 development for the community.
11:37:03 Keith, would you come up and say a few words?
11:37:05 >>> Thank you, Mark.
11:37:09 It's a pleasure to be here, and head up the Committee
11:37:13 of 100.
11:37:15 Just a bit about my background.
11:37:16 I have 15 years in the banking industry prior to
11:37:21 starting my career in economic development in 1990.
11:37:25 So I headed up several programs, and reenergized
11:37:30 certain regional groups in the state of Virginia.

11:37:34 I am delighted to be here in Tampa.
11:37:36 I am energized by what I have seen and what I have
11:37:40 persevered here in the Tampa region.
11:37:43 And sometimes from the outside, you see the
11:37:46 possibilities of potential of an area coming from the
11:37:50 outside.
11:37:52 I have taken the last five minutes to really assess
11:37:54 the programs of the Committee of 100.
11:37:57 And we hope to bring it back to the very aggressive
11:38:03 organization that it once was years ago with
11:38:07 aggressive outreach marketing to both domestic U.S.
11:38:11 markets and a international markets.
11:38:13 We also will always remain a strategic partner and
11:38:21 team member with the City of Tampa and Hillsborough
11:38:23 County, as we are the designated economic development
11:38:27 organization.
11:38:30 More importantly, we do outreach to existing
11:38:34 industries, and pleased to say that already this year
11:38:38 we have done 50 existing industry energies in the
11:38:44 region.
11:38:45 I'm daylighted to also report that in the year 2009,
11:38:49 so far, we have closed five projects, bringing 1460

11:38:57 jobs to the county and city which is 46.5% over our
11:39:04 results last year, as well as 59.3% over last year's
11:39:10 results for capital investment with a total of 25
11:39:15 million.
11:39:16 More importantly, we have been working on the mayor's
11:39:20 mission to Canada.
11:39:21 We are pleased to say that May 31st is the first
11:39:27 step in our international revamping of the Committee
11:39:29 of 100's efforts, and we have 32 business leaders
11:39:33 signed up on that mission including Judy Genshaft,
11:39:38 Rhea Law, president of the chamber, Dr. Steven Clasco,
11:39:43 USF.
11:39:47 So it's a great, great cadre of business leadership
11:39:51 that will go out and talk about trade, talk about the
11:39:55 positives of Tampa for businesses seeking a U.S.
11:39:59 location, and we would hope to turn that into direct
11:40:03 investment opportunities.
11:40:05 Thank you.
11:40:06 Any questions?
11:40:09 >> Thank you very much.
11:40:12 Item 56.
11:40:26 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator, Public Works,

11:40:26 Utility services.
11:40:28 I was asked to provide a comparison of the streetlight
11:40:30 program completed in 2002 versus the streetlight audit
11:40:35 program, program audit that was completed in 2008.
11:40:45 I have gone through both of those audits. Probably
11:40:47 the most significant pieces in the 2002 audit were
11:40:51 audit conclusion that is said we could not determine
11:40:54 if the amounts TECO billed the City of Tampa were
11:40:58 accurate, and streetlight inventory appeared to be
11:41:01 accurate.
11:41:02 That was 2002.
11:41:05 In the 2008 audit report, it says Tampa Electric
11:41:08 Company streetlight inventory was not accurate, and
11:41:13 while billing for May 2008 was recalculated without
11:41:16 exception applicable rates the calculation were found
11:41:20 to comply with the regulatory requirements and
11:41:22 contractual agreements, anymore internal controls
11:41:26 would help to ensure that monthly billing is accurate.
11:41:29 Council members, we have gone through issues like
11:41:35 MFLs and TMLDs and those may be simple like
11:41:40 comparing the streetlight bills.
11:41:42 I need to tell you there's two different types of

11:41:44 bills.
11:41:44 There is the streetlight bills for the city at large
11:41:49 and then there are various developments, most of them
11:41:52 would be in the New Tampa area, but there's other
11:41:54 developments throughout the city who want a specific
11:41:58 type of light, an upgrade of light pole and light
11:42:01 fixture, and there are special assessments, as you
11:42:04 know, for those various items.
11:42:08 As those developments occurred across the city, and
11:42:11 again in the new Tampa area, almost each development
11:42:15 has a different type of agreement.
11:42:18 So there are infinite number of complexities here
11:42:22 trying -- that we have been trying to get a handle on.
11:42:25 What I would like you to know is that in the last 18
11:42:28 months or so, and it's pretty much been -- we
11:42:32 discussed it during the franchise agreement with TECO
11:42:34 and since then we have had a spin-off where we have
11:42:37 been working much closer with them, much better with
11:42:39 them, Irv Lee, the public works director, has
11:42:43 personally been involved on a regular basis.
11:42:46 Itch personally been involved.
11:42:47 And we have made greats strides in getting the complex

11:42:52 issue of a TECO line item and the billing amount for
11:42:58 it extrapolated down to what are the street addresses
11:43:02 of these particular lights so that we can actually go
11:43:05 out there and reconcile our bill?
11:43:08 It has been long and hard fought to get there, but we
11:43:12 are getting there.
11:43:13 We have done more work to do.
11:43:15 We all acknowledge that.
11:43:17 But we are making great strides.
11:43:20 Again, Sharon fox, the revenue and finance department,
11:43:25 has also been deeply involved.
11:43:27 Sharon has identified and we received back from TECO
11:43:31 $70,000 that was owed back our way.
11:43:33 Again we are reconciling these bills on a monthly
11:43:36 basis.
11:43:37 We have actually met a couple of initiatives where we
11:43:40 are looking to see if the bill and the facility and
11:43:43 the department that is paying for that are all
11:43:46 correct.
11:43:47 But there are lots and lots of those line items.
11:43:50 And we are going to continue to work on that till we
11:43:53 get through there and get it scrubbed and get it

11:43:56 correct.
11:43:56 But again there's lots and lots of details there.
11:43:59 Again we are continuing to work on that.
11:44:01 So hopefully by the time we are going to have the much
11:44:06 improved system, but we are making progress.
11:44:08 I want you to know that.
11:44:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:44:10 I really appreciate the fact you are working on this.
11:44:12 I think that before we absolutely have no system and
11:44:15 in a way of knowing and we are moving towards a
11:44:18 rational linear system.
11:44:19 My understanding is that we pay for a light as sort of
11:44:22 a package deal.
11:44:23 So we pay for the physical entity and the amount of
11:44:28 electricity that's assumed to be used over the course
11:44:31 of a year.
11:44:32 TECO has absolutely no incentive to put in
11:44:37 energy-savoring bulbs, because then they don't get
11:44:40 paid as much.
11:44:41 And I don't know that we are breaking this out.
11:44:46 I know that there's a committee that council is not
11:44:50 asked to serve on but is existing where TECO is

11:44:53 meeting with citizens.
11:44:53 I hope of this is one of the issues that they will
11:44:55 address.
11:44:56 Other cities are moving toward using energy saving
11:44:59 bulbs.
11:45:00 And obviously we should be doing this.
11:45:02 And obviously we should be renegotiating what we pay
11:45:05 them if our new bulbs save energy.
11:45:09 And I think that should be an initiative.
11:45:12 And I would love to hear back, perhaps in a month on
11:45:17 that specific issue, where we are, what we are trying
11:45:19 to move, and how we intend to get there.
11:45:22 That would be really helpful.
11:45:23 But at least we are making progress.
11:45:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano, councilman
11:45:29 Miranda.
11:45:30 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: On Cross Creek Boulevard the last
11:45:32 six months there's been a whole group of lights that
11:45:34 have been out.
11:45:35 And I was told it was back there.
11:45:38 I tried it one night.
11:45:40 And it's too dangerous.

11:45:41 So I have been in touch with miss bus who is in charge
11:45:46 of effortly those lights.
11:45:49 And she sent me an e-mail three days ago and said the
11:45:52 lights have been fixed.
11:45:53 So that nature I went do I know there and the lights
11:45:55 are still out.
11:45:55 So I sent her another e-mail around 11:30 last night.
11:45:59 And I guess the lights are out.
11:46:03 Now there's more lights out down towards Cory lake.
11:46:07 There's probably 25 or 30 of them.
11:46:09 I think we need a better system on how the lights are
11:46:12 going to be reported.
11:46:14 I am not going to stop my car, get out of the car and
11:46:17 get hit.
11:46:20 So in 2002 and 2003, you took the feeder roads and the
11:46:29 city is paying them?
11:46:30 >>> We are paying the light bill for those feeder
11:46:33 roads?
11:46:37 >>> What I recall is TECO advised us that the city was
11:46:39 paying those bills at that time.
11:46:41 You had done some checking on that, is that correct?
11:46:44 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I understand as a result of that

11:46:46 that the city is billing the separate individual
11:46:49 subdivisions for those lights that you say are being
11:46:56 paid by the city.
11:46:56 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Again I am going to have to get
11:46:59 into that detail with you again, sir.
11:47:02 I am not familiar with -- that the city is charging
11:47:06 other folks.
11:47:06 If there is an assessment, then we are charging the
11:47:09 assessment in accordance with what the assessment
11:47:12 agreement is.
11:47:13 But as far as tracking the dollars, I would have to
11:47:17 get back into that for that specific item.
11:47:20 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Okay.
11:47:21 Who is responsible for reporting these lights?
11:47:27 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Well, certainly citizens, I mean
11:47:29 people who live in the area will see them first.
11:47:31 And a TECO folks and city employees drive around the
11:47:35 city when we see them, we report them.
11:47:37 We don't have an assigned group that just drives out
11:47:40 at night looking for lights to be out.
11:47:44 Again, from time to time, we do that.
11:47:45 But it's not a daily process.

11:47:55 >> A policeman in New York, that was part of his list.
11:48:00 When you got out and handed your report and the
11:48:02 sergeant went by there and saw a light out, he's going
11:48:04 to ask you, why don't you have that light out on
11:48:07 Dosbury road?
11:48:15 It's very dangerous for a residents to get out on a
11:48:17 road like Cross Creek Boulevard to take light numbers.
11:48:20 And some of the light numbers are obliterated, you
11:48:23 can't read them, you have got to get out and get a
11:48:25 flashlight.
11:48:26 It's very dangerous.
11:48:27 We need a better system.
11:48:29 It's not working the way it is.
11:48:30 And if those lights have been out for six months,
11:48:32 maybe we need a refund from TECO because they are
11:48:35 charging us based on a pole permit, what is it, 12,
11:48:40 $13 a month?
11:48:43 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Absolutely.
11:48:43 And again we pursued those sorts of rebates when the
11:48:47 lights have not been working for a period of time.
11:48:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
11:48:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

11:48:55 First of all let me say I'm not an employee of TECO.
11:48:57 I'm a customer of TECO like most of us are.
11:49:00 I can only tell you that when Mary Bryant -- I call
11:49:05 her the office manager but she's the only employee we
11:49:08 have, the office manager, takes these requests, they
11:49:11 are handled.
11:49:13 I don't know how she does it, who she calls, but they
11:49:15 are handled, because I get a confirmation.
11:49:19 I can also tell you that, to my knowledge -- and I'm
11:49:25 an employee of the citizens, not of TECO -- to my
11:49:28 knowledge, TECO has worked with different industries,
11:49:31 and individuals to avoid the lighting costs.
11:49:36 Let me tell you one example.
11:49:37 A solar combination between south Florida, TECO, and
11:49:43 Lowry Park Zoo, where they are going to install solar
11:49:47 panels to bring in certain amount of electricity to
11:49:51 power what goes around.
11:49:56 The only advice is I am going to give you is make sure
11:49:58 you get sunshine for three days before you raid the
11:50:00 ride.
11:50:00 I don't want you to get stuck.
11:50:02 I'm sure they have got a backup system to move you

11:50:05 around.
11:50:07 The light system and the city lights, they are like
11:50:11 anything else.
11:50:18 I saw many lights that they say are gad for five
11:50:20 years.
11:50:22 Being the type of guy I am, I keep receipts.
11:50:23 And a I can tell you that very few of those lights
11:50:26 last five years.
11:50:30 But I can also tell you that things are getting
11:50:32 better, that the public themselves have become far
11:50:38 attached to realities of today's standard due to
11:50:43 overpopulation and other things.
11:50:45 And we are getting better.
11:50:46 And as I said, if you have a problem, Dahl call your
11:50:53 aide, let your aide call TECO, and I guarantee you it
11:50:56 will get done.
11:50:57 It gets done for me and I'm no better than anybody
11:51:00 else.
11:51:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:51:02 We need to move.
11:51:03 Council, it's suggested to go ahead and take up the
11:51:07 water issue.

11:51:09 Hopefully we can do that.
11:51:13 Are we going to need more time?
11:51:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't think so.
11:51:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Or we can take it up first after
11:51:20 lunch.
11:51:21 I want to leave it up to you all.
11:51:24 I think the issue really is the ordinance.
11:51:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't maned working five minutes
11:51:29 over, ten minutes over.
11:51:33 >>MARY MULHERN: I think people have just left because
11:51:35 we thought it wasn't going to be till after lunch so
11:51:37 there are people who wanted to be here.
11:51:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: They are back.
11:51:43 >>MARY MULHERN: There was somebody else.
11:51:46 So I don't know.
11:51:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council?
11:51:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we should just do it now.
11:52:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We can carry it over.
11:52:06 Go till ten after?
11:52:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If they need to leave, let them
11:52:11 leave.
11:52:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Till about ten after on that item.

11:52:14 That gives us about 20 minutes.
11:52:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Since I was the person who made the
11:52:18 motion to ask that we have the substitute ordinance in
11:52:24 case we should decide, I would just like to say that
11:52:29 based on the weather, based on the information, the
11:52:34 reaction I have gotten from the public, based on the
11:52:37 reports, I won't be asking to reduce the restrictions.
11:52:44 So I just want to say that up front, because I was the
11:52:46 one that made that motion and asked to have that
11:52:50 option brought up.
11:52:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to hear a staff report
11:52:56 and see if there's an appropriate motion.
11:53:01 A substitute for Mary's --
11:53:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, housekeeping rules, did I
11:53:06 hear by consent that the council would go past the
11:53:09 noon hour to 12:10?
11:53:11 >> Yes. 12:10.
11:53:12 >>BRAD BAIRD: Tampa water department.
11:53:16 Before I present the report, I want to clearly state
11:53:21 our position regarding water, watering restrictions.
11:53:25 We need to stay the course until we reach 21 feet in
11:53:28 the reservoir and 60 million gallons a day flow in the

11:53:32 Hillsborough River.
11:53:33 Those numbers were developed scientifically, and not
11:53:37 provided off the cuff, conferred with experts
11:53:40 including the folks at the treatment plant that have
11:53:43 been producing water for over 30 years.
11:53:47 With that I would like to get into the report.
11:53:51 I have always started with the big picture.
11:53:58 And in the state of Florida, the drought index from
11:54:03 two weeks ago is the left hand.
11:54:05 The left hand map which shows very dry conditions in
11:54:12 the peninsula of Florida.
11:54:13 In the right hand is as of yet.
11:54:16 That's what Florida should look like all the time.
11:54:20 And that is good news.
11:54:21 However, this doesn't mean that the three-year drought
11:54:24 is over.
11:54:30 Also with the big purchaser picture the Hillsborough
11:54:32 River and Tampa Bay water desalination plant continue
11:54:35 to be the only non-groundwater sources for the region.
11:54:40 However, a little more good news as of the end of
11:54:44 today, Tampa Bay water desalination plant will be at
11:54:47 full capacity, producing 25 million gallons a day.

11:54:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Baird, we have a situation here
11:54:58 that requires a council --
11:55:04 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry, I didn't realize we voted
11:55:07 so fast whether to go to lunch but I have an
11:55:09 appointment and I am going to have to at noon.
11:55:13 So I think if you want -- we want a full council here,
11:55:18 we should take this up after lunch.
11:55:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the issue is, in my view is, the
11:55:25 important issue is whether we want to lessen the
11:55:29 restriction, and clearly you are the swing vote on
11:55:33 that issue and you clearly state you are not going to
11:55:36 change your position at this point.
11:55:37 So if you want to we can take a motion now and still
11:55:39 get a report later if you want to.
11:55:40 I don't know.
11:55:42 But you made that clear.
11:55:46 >>GWEN MILLER: I am going to make it clear, I am still
11:55:48 going to keep it.
11:55:50 I don't need to hear the report.
11:55:51 Because I am not going to change my decision.
11:55:53 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I can make the motion.
11:55:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's me hear councilman Dingfelder.

11:55:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:56:04 Let's start, about two months ago, where Mr. Daignault
11:56:07 called us up individually the day before you all came
11:56:11 to us with the emergency ordinance, and the phone call
11:56:14 I got suggested we go to every other week watering.
11:56:18 That was the phone call I got.
11:56:20 And I respected that.
11:56:23 That was based upon the scientific conclusion that we
11:56:27 were heading into a bad time.
11:56:29 And, frankly, I would have supported that.
11:56:33 When I got to council the next day, I find out that
11:56:36 the rest of my council members, with all due respect,
11:56:41 decided to take it the further step and go to no lawn
11:56:46 watering at all except with a hose once a weak.
11:56:52 So I think it's important to know where we started and
11:56:55 what the science was telling us at that time.
11:56:58 Council, you justified the no watering emergency
11:57:01 ordinance because the reservoir was extremely low, and
11:57:05 we were heading down the 15 feet at that point, but
11:57:09 the desal plant was malfunctioning, that the river
11:57:12 flow was extremely low, and that weighed no rain.
11:57:18 And a, frankly, only the City of Tampa was the only

11:57:22 municipality, the only entity that was going to this
11:57:24 extreme measure straying from the SWFWMD regs which
11:57:29 are now what, Brad, once a weak?
11:57:32 >>BRAD BAIRD: Once a week for a four-hour period.
11:57:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
11:57:39 Those were the regions you voted the emergency
11:57:41 ordinance, I voted against.
11:57:42 We now have lots of rain.
11:57:44 The river is up from 15 to what I've seen on your
11:57:47 report to almost 21 fate.
11:57:52 >> 20.8.
11:57:53 >> The river reservoir, excuse me.
11:58:01 The river flow, according to some information we got
11:58:04 this morning, appears to be 7% above what it was a
11:58:07 year ago, and we are approaching 40 million gallons a
11:58:10 day,.
11:58:13 >> 41 million a day.
11:58:15 >> I hadn't heard about this target of 60 million a
11:58:17 day which I'm sure is probably a summer-type flow.
11:58:23 Council, I would urge you to eliminate the emergency
11:58:25 ordinance today.
11:58:28 The emergency is gone.

11:58:30 The emergency is over.
11:58:31 And I would say that your extreme water restrictions
11:58:34 need to be lifted.
11:58:38 The community relies on us to listen to staff and make
11:58:44 the decisions based upon the evidence in front of us.
11:58:47 Well, the evidence not only in front of us but the
11:58:49 evidence is outside our windows.
11:58:51 It's now been raining for ten solid days.
11:58:54 Our ground is saturated.
11:58:56 Even the green swamp is starting to repair and recover
11:59:00 somewhat.
11:59:00 We are not there yet.
11:59:02 Okay.
11:59:02 But somewhat.
11:59:03 But I would say the emergency is over.
11:59:04 And we should now get in lane with the rest of
11:59:07 Hillsborough County and the rest of the bay area
11:59:09 community and go to the once a week watering.
11:59:12 I would move to eliminate the emergency ordinance
11:59:17 effective immediately and go to the SWFWMD
11:59:20 restrictions.
11:59:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Miller.

11:59:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We have blessed to have this rain.
11:59:29 If you look at the odds, the emergency is not over.
11:59:33 How long is this rain going to last?
11:59:35 Once you let citizens start watering the reservoir is
11:59:38 going to go right back down.
11:59:39 And now if you give them the privilege of water they
11:59:42 are going to continue to water and water, and that's
11:59:45 not going to help us.
11:59:46 So I don't think we need to lift the ban because it's
11:59:48 going to continue to rain.
11:59:51 The grass is looking gad.
11:59:52 Downtown need to water.
11:59:53 It's saturated and it's going to keep the grass
11:59:56 looking good.
11:59:56 So the rain keeps going, let's leave it like it is.
11:59:59 Because we are not going to follow the rules.
12:00:02 We are going to water, water, water, and that
12:00:04 reservoir is going to continue to go down again, and
12:00:06 be back at the same situation we were at the
12:00:08 beginning.
12:00:08 So I think we just need to leave it as it is until we
12:00:11 get our rainy season here for good, June and July is

12:00:17 the rainy season.
12:00:18 When that time comes and we get the rain that we need,
12:00:21 then we can lift the ban.
12:00:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
12:00:25 >>MARY MULHERN: As I said I am not going to support
12:00:30 reducing or changing the restrictions.
12:00:32 I did want to say a couple things.
12:00:35 I know that I spoke at length with a lot of the
12:00:39 landscape people and I really do empathize with you.
12:00:44 I don't want people to lose work.
12:00:46 I think that like us, we need to do some long-term
12:00:52 planning here, and really figure out solutions, which
12:00:57 I have to say that our water department is working on
12:01:00 expanding the reclaimed system, and I think we are
12:01:02 going to be moving towards solutions.
12:01:04 The other solution, which I think all of us and the
12:01:09 industry needs to do, is to move away from the
12:01:12 St. Augustine grass, which even if we were watering
12:01:15 twice a weak, I not going to survive.
12:01:19 So I think that we need to move away from these plants
12:01:23 that take so much water, because we just don't have
12:01:25 it.

12:01:26 And I know in the short term it's a difficulty, but I
12:01:29 think that we all need to adjust.
12:01:31 And it may be that this council needs to have some
12:01:35 ordinances in favor of less thirsty plants.
12:01:40 But the good news is, I looked at the ten day forecast
12:01:43 today, and it is thunderstorms every day, at least
12:01:47 40%, but usually around 60% to 80% like we had.
12:01:52 So by the first of June, it should still be raining.
12:01:55 So if we are going to come back and look at it then,
12:01:58 we will probably be in even better shape.
12:02:00 So I think the likelihood is we are in the rainy
12:02:02 season.
12:02:04 It will only be two weeks after the first week of June
12:02:07 to the typical tame when it starts.
12:02:08 So I think that I don't see this as a big hardship, as
12:02:15 big a hardship as we thought it might be just because
12:02:18 of the great rain that we have had in the last week
12:02:22 and that we expect to have in the next ten days.
12:02:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
12:02:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, we reached a
12:02:31 crossroad on this issue.
12:02:33 Again the crossroad Broadway and 42nd street very

12:02:37 famous.
12:02:38 But the crossroad that I see is conservation dry and
12:02:45 takes its usual Avenue.
12:02:46 Let me read a little bit of what information I
12:02:49 gathered from Tampa Bay water in the last couple of
12:02:51 days.
12:02:52 For the last 12 months the running average from the
12:02:54 wells has been 106 plus 4 million gallons well above
12:02:59 the 90.
12:03:00 The amount of groundwater bumped from these wellfield
12:03:03 during the month of March, April and May exceeds 76
12:03:08 million gallons of which the City of Tampa used 24.57
12:03:12 million.
12:03:13 Roughly a third of that.
12:03:16 The city's demand has dropped drastically during the
12:03:19 irrigation ban that it was supposed to do, and did it.
12:03:24 For the month of May the city currently is averaging
12:03:26 about 64 million gallons a day, down about 20 million.
12:03:32 Guess what.
12:03:34 What would have happened if we didn't have a ban to
12:03:38 lawn sprinkle by hand, and we would have done politics
12:03:41 as usual way?

12:03:43 We would have been more than likely at the 200 million
12:03:46 gallon at the reservoir.
12:03:50 Let me also say that the city reservoir has risen two
12:03:53 fate.
12:03:54 There's no doubt.
12:03:56 Flow in the Hillsborough River is still below normal.
12:03:59 Flow at Morris bridge gauge is less than 30 million
12:04:03 gallons a day which is still about half of what the
12:04:07 city needs everyone during the irrigation ban time.
12:04:12 The city's demand will drastically increase to merely
12:04:17 80 or more if the ban was lifted today.
12:04:22 If it stops the rain and the ban is not in place,
12:04:26 water usage would increase in the city, and we would
12:04:30 have to purchase more groundwater from Tampa Bay.
12:04:35 This morning I mentioned the environment and nature.
12:04:39 It is frail and fragile.
12:04:41 So we owe back what we have taken.
12:04:45 And we have bought millions and millions and millions
12:04:52 of gallons of water from Tampa Bay water, and if it
12:04:56 weren't for SWFWMD and Tampa Bay water giving us a
12:04:58 hand, it would be very little or no water to certain
12:05:01 parts of the city.

12:05:02 I can tell you that the bypass canal is still below
12:05:07 the point of permit. I can tell you if it wasn't for
12:05:14 SWFWMD to give us an emergency order to use more water
12:05:17 from the middle pool or the bypass canal, this city
12:05:21 would be in dire straits for water.
12:05:25 We have reached a turning point, and I said earlier,
12:05:30 no law is an acceptable law unless the public adheres
12:05:37 to those laws.
12:05:39 And, in this case, the public has come through like
12:05:44 world champs, better than any Super Bowl or World
12:05:49 Series.
12:05:49 They have given to us what we needed to survive and to
12:05:54 have the available water for the quality of life.
12:06:00 And I want to thank the public for doing what they
12:06:02 have done.
12:06:04 I can also tell you -- and this is for another day --
12:06:07 on reclaimed, everyone is not going to get reclaimed.
12:06:11 Maybe 20% of the population is going to get reclaimed.
12:06:16 And we'll discuss that at a later date on another plan
12:06:19 that I have.
12:06:19 But I can also tell you that I went back to my
12:06:23 records.

12:06:25 On February 23rd of '09 a council member wrote the
12:06:28 chair and said just the same things that I'm speaking
12:06:32 about.
12:06:33 Hand watering, conservation, refilling the wellfields,
12:06:36 doing the right thing.
12:06:38 And guess what, that council member didn't vote for
12:06:41 any of them.
12:06:43 But thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity.
12:06:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena.
12:06:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Today we have the luxury of a
12:06:51 theoretical conversation because it's raining.
12:06:54 The good news is that our beloved river is in good
12:06:58 shape, and there is not an emergency.
12:07:04 The water level that Mr. Baird said we needed to
12:07:07 reach, we reached.
12:07:08 Although the flow isn't ultimately what it might be,
12:07:11 we have a healthy situation now.
12:07:15 If we were to allow people to water -- and I can't
12:07:18 fathom why anybody would water because it's raining
12:07:21 and will continue to rain ---we still would be in an
12:07:24 okay situation.
12:07:25 The two classes of people who are impacted were

12:07:27 brought up today by the irrigation people.
12:07:29 There are people who are putting in new construction,
12:07:34 and for that reason, I think this as I said a
12:07:39 theoretical conversation because the rain saved us
12:07:42 from being in a dire situation.
12:07:48 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Dingfelder, what date did you
12:07:50 have on your motion?
12:07:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would say depending on what legal
12:07:55 tells us, I would say effective immediately.
12:07:58 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Can I make a friendly motion on
12:08:01 your motion to make it June 1st?
12:08:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Any contingencies?
12:08:13 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Say June 1st.
12:08:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess that's only about a week.
12:08:17 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Nine days away.
12:08:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's fine.
12:08:20 That way the city can get the word out and have a
12:08:22 better education program.
12:08:24 I accept that as a friendly amendment.
12:08:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I relinquish the gavel.
12:08:30 I make a substitute motion and that is the ordinance
12:08:34 stays in place except for giving the mayor authority

12:08:36 at such time as the conditions as outlined by staff,
12:08:39 and that she will have the power and authority to lift
12:08:43 the ordinance.
12:08:43 That's a motion made by me.
12:08:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll second that for discussion, if
12:08:47 I may.
12:08:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead.
12:08:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I see Mr. Shelby digging for his
12:08:54 rule book so that might mean something.
12:09:01 >> We have a motion and second.
12:09:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Point of order tore Mr. Shelby:
12:09:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A substitute motion, under a motion
12:09:10 to in effect substitute motion under Robert's Rules of
12:09:12 Order to a motion to amend under section 12, under
12:09:18 improper amendments, the following types of amendment
12:09:20 as are out of order -- one that merely makes the
12:09:24 adoption of the amended question equivalent to a
12:09:26 rejection of the original motion.
12:09:28 So in that case, per Roberts rules, the substitute
12:09:32 motion has the effect of being -- rejection of the
12:09:37 original motion, that motion would be out of order.
12:09:40 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.

12:09:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I call for the question of the
12:09:44 motion made by Mr. Dingfelder, seconded by Mr.
12:09:47 Caetano.
12:09:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I second his call for the question.
12:09:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's vote on the question.
12:09:54 All in favor of the question signify by saying Aye.
12:09:58 Opposes?
12:09:58 Okay.
12:09:58 So moved.
12:09:59 All right.
12:10:00 Then --
12:10:03 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Would it be all right if I can
12:10:05 speak before you vote?
12:10:06 >> No.
12:10:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
12:10:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor of the motion made by
12:10:09 councilman Dingfelder and he added an amendment for
12:10:14 June 1st, all in favor signify by saying Aye.
12:10:18 Opposes?
12:10:19 >>THE CLERK: The motion failed with Miller, Miranda,
12:10:23 Mulhern, Scott voting no.
12:10:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go back to my motion, I relinquished

12:10:31 the gavel, we stay the course, hold the restriction in
12:10:34 place, however, giving the mayor such authority as
12:10:37 such time that it meets the condition as outlined by
12:10:40 staff that she be given authority to lift the
12:10:45 restrictions.
12:10:46 >> Second.
12:10:47 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
12:10:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The motion is well intended, I'm
12:10:52 sure.
12:10:53 But it's so broad in my mind that the doesn't talk
12:10:55 about at what levels.
12:10:59 The river has consequences from a lot of areas
12:11:01 regarding the green swamp, the sponge that it is, is
12:11:09 it getting up to the area where it's now releasing
12:11:11 water, or is it still taking in water to release
12:11:14 itself?
12:11:15 We get a portion of water from the green swamp into
12:11:19 the Hillsborough River.
12:11:22 The motion does not address the amount of water that
12:11:24 we have taken out of nature.
12:11:26 I out of the Wellfield.
12:11:28 Which is very costly.

12:11:30 And we are still buying water today with all the rain
12:11:33 that we have had.
12:11:34 And I'm assured of that.
12:11:37 So what I'm saying is, I don't mind supporting the
12:11:39 motion, but I have got to make sure that there are
12:11:43 some areas that protect nature and the environment in
12:11:45 the motion.
12:12:04 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Some time ago there was abilities
12:12:06 to going back to have the mayor make the decision
12:12:08 between various levels of restriction.
12:12:10 So based on that discussion, we had prepared a draft
12:12:13 ordinance.
12:12:15 What we can do is take that and provide that to you
12:12:20 all and give an opportunity based on that document, if
12:12:25 you would like.
12:12:26 It does have -- and I would have to go back and
12:12:29 refresh any my memory to what the restriction levels
12:12:32 are, but it does have various levels.
12:12:33 The Fuel full ban which we have now, a twice-a-month,
12:12:38 and then the water management district and the ability
12:12:42 for the mayor on the advice of the water department
12:12:46 director to make the decision to go between those.

12:12:49 I don't think we have specific hydrologic conditions
12:12:53 as councilman Miranda had suggested to delineate when
12:13:00 those decisions are made.
12:13:01 But it does have the authority for the mayor to make
12:13:03 the decision upon the advice of staff on how and when
12:13:08 to move between those different levels of
12:13:10 restrictions.
12:13:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Reverend Scott.
12:13:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's my understanding that you can
12:13:16 include those conditions in there.
12:13:17 The intent of my motion really is to keep the same
12:13:20 conditions in place, the intent of the motion is to
12:13:24 keep the same conditions in place where we are now.
12:13:26 The only difference is giving the mayor authority that
12:13:31 once those conditions are met that councilman Miranda
12:13:35 raised, that you have the authority at that time to
12:13:42 lift those restrictions.
12:13:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern.
12:13:50 We have a motion.
12:13:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I want to ask Mr. Baird a
12:13:56 question.
12:13:57 Mr. Baird, how long will it take at the present rate

12:14:01 of rain to get to 23 feet?
12:14:06 >>BRAD BAIRD: I don't know that.
12:14:07 But it appears just on the rate that it should be in a
12:14:10 few days.
12:14:15 The other parameter, the flow is a lot more variable,
12:14:19 because it depends on stormwater run-off, as well as
12:14:22 tributary flows.
12:14:25 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: So within a week we could be at
12:14:27 23 feet?
12:14:28 >>> 21.
12:14:29 >> We are at 202nd 1 now.
12:14:31 >>> 20.8.
12:14:33 >> 20.80.
12:14:35 So in a week we could be at 23 feet if the rain
12:14:38 continues as it has?
12:14:40 >>> 21 you mean?
12:14:43 We crest at 22.5.
12:14:49 But, yes, we could be in an improved condition to
12:14:52 where we are now.
12:14:53 If it continues to rain.
12:14:55 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Can I put an amendment to your
12:14:57 motion, Mr. Chairman, that if it crests at 22 feet

12:15:01 that the mayor automatically, that she'll do that?
12:15:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
12:15:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Madam Chair pro tem.
12:15:13 I seconded the motion because I wanted to hear what
12:15:15 the discussion was going to be and where this motion
12:15:17 was headed.
12:15:17 But the more I thought about it, the more I concluded
12:15:20 it's a cop-out.
12:15:22 This council took a very strong position and said, we
12:15:28 are going to take charge of this situation, now the
12:15:31 mayor came to you and said let's water every other
12:15:33 week as of April 1st, but this council said, no,
12:15:38 we are going to take charge and have no watering.
12:15:40 Okay.
12:15:41 Now this council, in my opinion, is looking to just
12:15:44 pass the buck across the parking lot here and say, no,
12:15:50 let's let the mayor make the tough decision.
12:15:53 I don't agree with that.
12:15:54 I think we are elected to make the tough decision.
12:15:56 Okay.
12:15:57 And if we were willing to make a decision to have that
12:15:59 emergency ordinance come into effect April 1st,

12:16:02 then we can listen to staff.
12:16:06 We can listen to staff and we can make that decision
12:16:08 ourselves instead of dumping that decision across the
12:16:11 street.
12:16:13 With all due respect -- and I don't mean anything
12:16:15 personally on that.
12:16:16 And I use the term cop-out.
12:16:17 Maybe that's inappropriate.
12:16:18 But I just feel the motion is inappropriate because
12:16:21 frankly it just delegates the responsibility across
12:16:23 the street.
12:16:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, that's quite interesting.
12:16:28 A few weeks ago you wanted the mayor to make that
12:16:31 decision, make the call.
12:16:33 Now I'm suggesting because I we are going to have 21
12:16:39 feet by the end of the week and I was trying to give
12:16:41 the authority to the mayor if it passes at the end of
12:16:43 the week she would have that authority to move forward
12:16:46 as opposed to waiting for us for two weeks to enact
12:16:49 and come back.
12:16:50 That was the intent of the motion.
12:16:51 I just found it quite interesting, councilman, that a

12:16:54 few weeks ago you wanted the mayor to have that same
12:16:56 authority.
12:16:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.
12:16:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:16:59 I'm not opposed.
12:16:59 If we want to keep in the place for another two weeks?
12:17:02 I don't have in a problem.
12:17:04 No problem at all.
12:17:05 I was just trying to give the mayor the authority, if
12:17:09 she meets certain conditions, by the end of this week,
12:17:12 or the beginning, before we are in session, she would
12:17:14 have the authority to go ahead and lift those
12:17:16 restrictions to benefit the business community and
12:17:19 those who have landscaping businesses and all of that.
12:17:22 But I hear you, but that's fine.
12:17:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That was my original motion.
12:17:28 My only motion was to take it off the dime.
12:17:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
12:17:35 You know, I don't know about other six council
12:17:39 members, but this council member, the mayor never
12:17:42 called me, I never talked to the mayor about things.
12:17:51 He had two sides of a paper 8 and a half by 10 or 11,

12:17:57 had one ordinance on one side, one on the other.
12:17:59 Never did I remember somebody from the administration
12:18:01 saying, this is the one we want.
12:18:05 This council voted.
12:18:10 And it wasn't the mayor's position.
12:18:11 She was kind enough to have two of them, choose the
12:18:14 one you want with both of them being prepared and
12:18:16 ready to go.
12:18:17 We made the choice.
12:18:21 Not her.
12:18:22 Not Mr. Daignault.
12:18:23 Not Mr. Brad Baird.
12:18:25 None of them.
12:18:26 We did.
12:18:27 And if you want to play politics as usual Avenue, when
12:18:31 I talked about it earlier on the crossroads between
12:18:33 water conservation drive and politics as usual, you
12:18:36 have just witnessed politics Avenue as usual.
12:18:41 That's all I am going to say.
12:18:43 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know when the politics is
12:18:45 usual here, but let's call for the question.
12:18:49 I would like to ask, Mr. Fletcher, could you have this

12:18:54 ordinance ready after lunch?
12:18:57 Okay.
12:18:59 Yes.
12:18:59 Then I would like to call the question.
12:19:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
12:19:04 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion to call the question.
12:19:06 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
12:19:08 Opposed?
12:19:08 Now we are going to vote on the motion.
12:19:10 All in favor of the motion made by Reverend Scott say
12:19:13 Aye.
12:19:13 Opposes, Nay.
12:19:18 >>THE CLERK: Can we have voice?
12:19:22 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Nay.
12:19:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Nay.
12:19:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
12:19:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Nay.
12:19:34 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
12:19:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No.
12:19:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
12:19:43 >>THE CLERK: The motion failed with Caetano,
12:19:46 Saul-Sena, Miranda, and Dingfelder voting no.

12:19:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then we stand in recess.
12:19:51 That means over.
12:19:52 We stand in recess.
12:19:54 It stays in place.
12:19:56 We are in recess until 1:45.
12:19:59 Thank you.
12:19:59 (City Council meeting in recess at 12:20 p.m.)

12:54:18 Tampa City Council
13:45:48 1:45 p.m. Session
13:49:27 (Sounding gavel)
13:49:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
13:49:29 order.
13:49:29 Roll call.
13:49:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
13:49:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:49:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
13:49:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
13:49:41 Item 61.
13:49:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I have a request if
13:49:54 council would please consider entertaining it.
13:49:57 With regards to item 71, it's a 1:30 public hearing
13:50:01 that's requesting a continuance.
13:50:03 And I was wondering if council would consider
13:50:05 entertaining that up front.
13:50:07 Number 71 is a public hearing on an SU-2 alcoholic
13:50:13 beverage.
13:50:14 And Mr. Marchetti is here.
13:50:17 And I'm wondering if that can be opened and you can

13:50:19 have that continued up front.
13:50:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, we can do that then.
13:50:26 >> Move to open.
13:50:28 >> Second.
13:50:29 (Motion carried).
13:50:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 71.
13:50:34 This is a public hearing on a continuance to July
13:50:36 30th.
13:50:37 >> Marchetti representing the applicant.
13:50:42 We had a neighborhood meeting and wanted to take more
13:50:44 time.
13:50:45 Actually one person showed up at the meeting, but
13:50:47 apparently represents several people within the area.
13:50:50 So there are certain access issues, and security and
13:50:54 screening, those sort of issues.
13:50:56 We want to try to resolve before we go to hearing.
13:50:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here wishing to address council
13:51:01 on the continuance?
13:51:02 Anyone wishing to address council on the continuance?
13:51:04 Come forward.
13:51:11 >>> John Bruce.
13:51:12 I represent 8th street homeowners and a residents

13:51:15 against this proposed bar altogether.
13:51:18 And we feel that they had plenty of time.
13:51:20 They bring this to us.
13:51:22 We hurried, scrambled, got ready.
13:51:25 We don't see why they don't have the time to proceed.
13:51:27 We are ready.
13:51:29 We don't know what the holdup could be.
13:51:30 We don't think giving them more time is going to make
13:51:35 any difference.
13:51:36 I am the only person here but I represent about 40
13:51:39 homeowners and residents so I don't see what any
13:51:41 continuance is going to help.
13:51:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
13:51:45 Well, let me raise the question from a legal
13:51:48 standpoint.
13:51:49 Is this the first continuance?
13:51:51 And then don't we customarily from a legal standpoint
13:51:54 allow at least one continuance?
13:51:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The answer is yes, this is the first
13:51:59 time the public hearing has been opened.
13:52:00 The question is whether or not the continuance is for
13:52:05 a purpose that will serve some purpose, but normally

13:52:11 council has granted it.
13:52:12 But it's not necessarily a matter of right.
13:52:15 So I guess if you wish to hear from the petitioner as
13:52:17 to whether perhaps his position or his petition or
13:52:20 something within --
13:52:23 I am only stressing the fact that historically, we
13:52:26 always customarily have allowed a continuance so they
13:52:29 can have the opportunity to iron out any differences
13:52:32 they may have, since I have been here.
13:52:34 If you want to change that, you all tell me.
13:52:37 But that's since I have been here in two years that's
13:52:40 what you have been doing.
13:52:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This would just be for the staff
13:52:45 and petitioner.
13:52:46 Is this the first request for continuance?
13:52:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, it is.
13:52:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is this a situation where the
13:52:55 petitioner has attempted to contact the neighborhood
13:52:59 association?
13:53:02 >> Mr. Marchetti, do you want to come?
13:53:05 >> Sure, Vin Marchetti for the record.
13:53:07 Actually we did send them a letter, and the meeting we

13:53:12 had with them wanted to go back and look at some
13:53:15 issues that he became concerned about and also
13:53:17 expressed on behalf of neighbors.
13:53:18 We have not spoken to anyone but Mr. Briggs.
13:53:21 He's the only one that attended our meeting.
13:53:23 But we certainly try to resolve so of the issues that
13:53:26 he expressed to us.
13:53:27 This is our first continuance request.
13:53:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Marchetti, why don't you try to
13:53:33 meet with the whole association instead of just one
13:53:36 person?
13:53:36 >>> Oh, we did. We actually sent letters out to the
13:53:39 association president.
13:53:39 He was the only one that showed up at the meeting.
13:53:41 So we'll try to have another meeting.
13:53:43 We'll embrace another meeting, try to get more people
13:53:46 to show up.
13:53:46 >>GWEN MILLER: I make a motion to continue to July
13:53:50 9th, 2009.
13:53:52 July 30th:
13:53:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 1:30 in the arch?
13:53:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.

13:53:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
13:53:59 All in favor?
13:54:00 Opposes?
13:54:01 So moved.
13:54:01 Thank you.
13:54:03 July 30th the continuance.
13:54:04 Item 73 we need to take up that item.
13:54:07 It cannot be heard.
13:54:08 So we might as well deal with that.
13:54:11 We need a continuance on that, council?
13:54:13 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
13:54:18 I filed a motion with City Council yesterday letting
13:54:21 you know this is out of order to be heard.
13:54:23 The petitioner has not filed a complete copy of the
13:54:27 record supplied to you.
13:54:28 And that needs to be perfected.
13:54:30 I believe that both sides would like to address City
13:54:33 Council.
13:54:35 I believe the property owner whose property is at
13:54:37 issue as well as the appellant would like to speak to
13:54:40 City Council about a gate and also --
13:54:42 Is this going to take a few minutes?

13:54:44 I don't mind taking it out of order.
13:54:46 I'm just trying to keep people from sitting around.
13:54:49 Now if it's going take 30 minutes then I will put it
13:54:51 back in order's just a few minutes.
13:54:54 >>> Scott McLaren on behalf of the applicant.
13:54:59 I do have a motion to dismiss the appeal and that will
13:55:01 take a few minutes.
13:55:02 And I don't want to misrepresent the amount of time.
13:55:05 But this is the second request for a continuance.
13:55:08 And this is the second time our position is that the
13:55:11 appellant has failed to comply with the appellant
13:55:14 rules on this matter, and some background is in order.
13:55:18 I would be glad to present that to you now, or later
13:55:20 if you so require.
13:55:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let me hear from legal on this
13:55:24 issue.
13:55:24 >>REBECCA KERT: I do believe they have a right to make
13:55:31 this motion but if it's going to be lengthy then you
13:55:34 may want to put it back in order.
13:55:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then do that, put it back in order.
13:55:39 We are back to item 61, which is a staff report here.
13:55:46 We requested a written report so I don't know whether

13:55:48 any additional questions --
13:55:59 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
13:56:01 I'm available for any questions.
13:56:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So any questions from those who?
13:56:11 You don't have any questions then.
13:56:14 >>MARY MULHERN: Hold on.
13:56:18 61.
13:56:25 Cathy, do you remember when we asked for this?
13:56:33 Didn't you already give us the answer on this or not?
13:56:36 Oh, you gave us the written response.
13:56:37 I'll read it and I'll call you if I have questions.
13:56:41 Thank you.
13:56:41 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No problem.
13:56:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, we'll move to item 63.
13:56:52 We'll come back to 62.
13:56:54 Item 63.
13:56:54 Item 63.
13:57:05 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.
13:57:07 I think the focus of this request was regarding the
13:57:10 ability to get administrative warrants for access to
13:57:14 abandoned properties.
13:57:17 An opportunity that we have had weekly for some time,

13:57:21 but it's been very difficult to get those because
13:57:25 there's not an established process in place at the
13:57:29 circuit court level.
13:57:30 We have met with the chief judge and Hillsborough
13:57:35 County has gone with this as well to create a
13:57:37 standardized process where there's a standardized
13:57:40 affidavit laying out the required information, and
13:57:42 these are available only for vacant buildings where
13:57:46 there is not somebody in residence or an ongoing
13:57:50 business activity, and we expect that that will
13:57:52 streamline the process, and make it much easier to get
13:57:55 these moving forward because we do have more vacant
13:57:58 buildings now, and it's more common that we need to
13:58:02 get these warrants.
13:58:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm really pleased that you have
13:58:05 created this process.
13:58:06 And in light of the rains, which we won't complain
13:58:09 about, we are grateful that it's raining, but some of
13:58:12 our historic structures have holes in the roof or no
13:58:15 roof, so it's particularly important that we get out
13:58:17 there and make sure that they are in good shape.
13:58:20 And under new business I am going to ask for a report

13:58:23 back on those endangered historic structures.
13:58:26 Thank you.
13:58:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 64.
13:58:36 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.
13:58:40 I believe the request was to investigate the
13:58:42 possibility of getting special legislation a Lough the
13:58:44 city to more directly regulate the operators of the
13:58:50 bars or other liquor establishments.
13:58:52 Right now what we focus on is the land use
13:58:55 designation, where folks are able to sell liquor,
13:59:00 teams -- times of operation.
13:59:02 The way this motion is recorded here, it references
13:59:07 abandonment or land no longer in use.
13:59:13 We have the ability to eliminate a wet zoning -- wet
13:59:16 zoned area or special use for liquor sales, when there
13:59:20 are no operations for six months.
13:59:22 And we have a fairly formal process for doing that.
13:59:25 I think the interest was more in regulating the
13:59:27 transfer as well when a bar or a restaurant is sold.
13:59:33 The process to seek that kind of authority would be
13:59:38 through most likely a special act, go through our
13:59:41 local delegation, and it would give the city authority

13:59:45 that other cities do not have right now.
13:59:48 What happens historically was the state preempted our
13:59:50 ability to regulate those operators in getting to
13:59:55 types of operations that were going on at these liquor
13:59:59 establishments.
14:00:01 And they would really then be part of the state
14:00:04 legislative process, whether or not we were able to
14:00:07 obtain that additional authority.
14:00:10 And I have been in contact with the League of Cities
14:00:12 in and they are investigate field goal anybody else
14:00:14 has this tape of authority.
14:00:16 We are not aware of anybody else at this point.
14:00:18 But we are looking into that as well.
14:00:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The reason I brought that up was
14:00:26 because things change, and, you know, 20 years from
14:00:29 now, 30 years from now or 40 years in the past, a
14:00:32 neighborhood that once was on the down side is now on
14:00:35 the up side of things.
14:00:37 And if you have a certain type of license -- and I did
14:00:43 not include any "R" restaurant license or things and a
14:00:47 half nature -- but to simply say we are going to zone
14:00:50 the land forever, I think there's only one thing that

14:00:55 happens forever.
14:00:58 You got it?
14:01:01 >> Yeah.
14:01:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And that's the only reason I said
14:01:06 that.
14:01:06 And you're right.
14:01:07 The legislature is the one that has that.
14:01:08 I don't know if we can find any sponsors for that.
14:01:11 I would like to at least give it an opportunity and a
14:01:14 try, because things change.
14:01:17 Something where works good today and it's closed
14:01:21 tomorrow and it's closed two years and becomes an
14:01:23 abandoned building, run down.
14:01:27 Now the neighborhood build up and all of a sudden
14:01:30 somebody says, I am going back and doing what I had
14:01:33 the right to do 15 years ago, and that puts another
14:01:37 click in the armor of the neighborhood.
14:01:40 That's the reason I brought it up.
14:01:42 So we are going to continue that process?
14:01:44 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We can continue doing research as
14:01:46 I described to find out if there's other localities
14:01:48 that have similar authority, and we can report back to

14:01:51 you again if you would like.
14:01:55 >> Thank you.
14:01:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Now in our discussion you said no
14:01:58 other municipality has that authority as of today.
14:02:00 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Well, if I might be more precise.
14:02:05 We have looked around.
14:02:12 But the special acts are a little harder to research
14:02:14 than other types of law.
14:02:16 We are not aware of one yet but that doesn't mean
14:02:18 there isn't one somewhere that 50 years ago got a
14:02:23 special dispensation or something.
14:02:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:02:25 Item 62.
14:02:26 Item 62.
14:02:32 Staff report.
14:02:32 We'll pick up item 65 right before new business, I
14:02:35 believe, Mr. Shelby.
14:02:40 >>JAN MCLEAN: Office of city attorney.
14:02:42 The legal department was requested to be here to
14:02:45 provide an ordinance on this issue.
14:02:48 There's been some discussions, I understand, that may
14:02:51 have answered Mr. Miranda's concerns on this, with

14:02:56 regard to the processes that are already in place.
14:02:58 So we have not prepared an ordinance to date based on
14:03:04 the information that was provided to Mr. Miranda.
14:03:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You failed me?
14:03:10 >>JAN MCLEAN: No, sir, I would not.
14:03:12 >> I'm just humorous today.
14:03:15 I feel good.
14:03:16 Don't catch me in five minute, though.
14:03:18 Let me say I have had the discussion was the powers to
14:03:21 be, and to me it's half of one, six of another.
14:03:26 If you are applying for a permit to build something
14:03:28 and this council has given, I forgot if it was six
14:03:31 months or a year, to hold back due to the economic
14:03:35 situation that we are in, I think we passed that last
14:03:38 week or two weeks ago, whatever.
14:03:40 Then I said it's only fair to have a companion to go
14:03:43 with what's going to support that building.
14:03:45 Two things, water and sewer.
14:03:46 So I said, so now those individuals that apply for
14:03:50 that permit, are they going to have to hook up to
14:03:53 water and sewer, even though there is no building?
14:03:56 So then I say, well, maybe they should run concurrent

14:03:59 to have this.
14:04:00 The administrative side is, you take some of my water
14:04:05 and sewer that I can use for others who want to go
14:04:07 forward.
14:04:08 All right.
14:04:09 So let's say that they are right.
14:04:11 What happens to the individuals or groups of
14:04:14 individuals or companies that have this one building
14:04:18 that have a permit for it?
14:04:21 Are they going to get any water and sewer?
14:04:23 Because what works for one works for another.
14:04:25 If you are telling me that you may not have the amount
14:04:28 of sewer and water available, for one that means you
14:04:34 won't have it for the other, no matter which side of
14:04:36 the road you're on.
14:04:37 And it doesn't seem practical.
14:04:38 And that's the only question that I have.
14:04:40 How can you tell me -- I'm using your water and sewer
14:04:44 credits when the other ones are expecting, or if I
14:04:47 give it then the other one is not going to have it.
14:04:50 And the next question is, how much capability do we
14:04:53 have, and the sewer department, I think it's greater

14:04:57 than what we are saying, and how much water
14:04:59 capabilities do we have?
14:05:00 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator public works and
14:05:04 utility services.
14:05:05 To try to answer your first question, if we looked
14:05:08 back over just the last two years and to add some
14:05:12 specificity, what the council did was extend projects
14:05:17 that could normally be held for about a year, they
14:05:22 extended that for about another year, so that's about
14:05:24 a two-year window of opportunity.
14:05:28 Currently, on water commitment letters, we give people
14:05:32 about three months to give us 50% of the fees, and
14:05:37 then six months beyond that to begin work.
14:05:40 So that's nine months.
14:05:42 If we have to hold that out for two years -- and again
14:05:46 if we look for the last two years at all of the
14:05:49 projects, all the developments that came to us and
14:05:52 said, I might want to build, and I need commitment
14:05:55 letters, if we had to hold all that water and sewage
14:05:58 capability, we probably wouldn't have any left.
14:06:00 There are lots of projects that get started, but don't
14:06:04 actually get constructed.

14:06:06 So I guess what we are suggesting is that you let us
14:06:11 stay with our nine-month process, and people need that
14:06:17 density.
14:06:18 They don't want to have to come back for more
14:06:19 approvals, and certainly sometimes rules change, and
14:06:22 that's why they would like to have that two-year
14:06:25 window.
14:06:27 But again if I have to hold commitments for two years
14:06:30 for water and sewage capability, I think we are going
14:06:33 to be in bad shape should the next good project come
14:06:37 along that is ready to move.
14:06:40 There is the potential I may have to say until I know
14:06:42 what's going to happen with all the ones that I have
14:06:44 got out there, I can't give you that commitment.
14:06:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: May I continue further?
14:06:53 So then we are saying that one project that is being
14:06:56 held for nine months, let's say you don't want to go
14:06:58 any further but another project that says it's going
14:07:00 to start, you are not guaranteed 100 percent that
14:07:03 project is going to start.
14:07:04 All you have is plans have been approved through the
14:07:06 Planning Commission, through this council, through the

14:07:08 various organizations, and including your staff, that
14:07:12 that is going to happen.
14:07:14 There is in a contract that says you will start on
14:07:17 such and such date and finish at such a date.
14:07:20 So what I'm trying to say is, if that contract that is
14:07:23 nine months doesn't go two years, are we then short of
14:07:28 sewer capacity?
14:07:30 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Again, it is all of those
14:07:34 projects -- lots of projects come before council.
14:07:38 Not all of them get constructed.
14:07:40 So it's a proportionate at.
14:07:45 It's not like it's a little bit more.
14:07:46 It's a lot more coming to you and get approval and
14:07:49 then they don't get constructed.
14:07:50 If I have to guarantee water and sewage for all of
14:07:53 those and hold it for a two-year period, again, we are
14:07:57 putting ourselves in a situation that the next good
14:08:00 project that comes along, if an IKEA or something
14:08:03 comes out of the blue and wants to get going and they
14:08:05 have the money, we could find ourselves in a situation
14:08:08 where we say, I have got all this capacity that I'm
14:08:11 reserving, and until I wait two years to find out if

14:08:14 they are going to go, I can't commit to you.
14:08:17 And we are suggesting that the nine month time frame
14:08:21 that we currently have is sufficient for folks who are
14:08:25 really interested in developing a building.
14:08:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So a homeowner who wants to build a
14:08:31 house, in trouble, got a loan, and he or she can't
14:08:40 build a house and you have a 50% deposit is going to
14:08:45 be left out because he or she can't get the financing
14:08:47 and now the clock is running on that nine months?
14:08:50 >>> They certainly can come in and do things along the
14:08:52 way to extend that, if they are dealing with us.
14:08:55 And that may be a bad example because residential
14:08:57 houses we probably don't have a problem with doing
14:08:59 that.
14:09:00 We are talking about a development, or large
14:09:02 commercial, industrial facility, that would be the
14:09:05 problem.
14:09:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think you're half right and half
14:09:14 wrong.
14:09:14 >>> So that's a good day then.
14:09:17 [ Laughter ]
14:09:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?

14:09:27 Anything else?
14:09:30 Is it raining?
14:09:33 [ Laughter ]
14:09:34 All right.
14:09:36 I'll leave it like it is.
14:09:37 I'm not going to debate it.
14:09:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:09:39 Then that will complete all our staff reports for
14:09:43 right now.
14:09:43 And then we'll pick up item 65.
14:09:47 These public hearings we'll deal with.
14:09:54 Item 66.
14:09:55 Let me ask all persons that are going to being is
14:09:57 before council, will you stand and be sworn?
14:10:00 If you are going to be addressing council, will you
14:10:03 stand and be sworn?
14:10:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: For which items?
14:10:06 All the afternoon items?
14:10:09 >> Yes, all the 1:30 items.
14:10:12 (Oath administered by Clerk)
14:10:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 66 is a continued public hearing.
14:10:26 Item 66.

14:10:33 >>> Todd Pressman, my address is 2880 U.S. highway 19
14:10:39 north, Clearwater, Florida.
14:10:41 We are here today with a continued public hearing.
14:10:44 To bring you up to speed, I do want to thank the
14:10:48 council for the chance to review the aspects of this
14:10:51 application, and we have met and talked with and
14:10:56 worked with the folks who were at the first hearing,
14:11:02 and a lot of them are here today.
14:11:04 I will tell you that our discussions have been very
14:11:07 respectful.
14:11:09 I personally know a few of the folks involved.
14:11:12 We had good substantial discussions.
14:11:15 We have not solved a lot of issues, but we have
14:11:19 presented and addressed what we consider to be
14:11:22 outstanding mitigation for this issue.
14:11:25 I do want to remind that you this request comes to you
14:11:28 with your staff report as completely noted as
14:11:33 consistent, with all your staff reviews, it comes to
14:11:38 you with the Tampa Police Department report of no
14:11:40 objection.
14:11:43 And we presented to you already an outstanding parking
14:11:46 plan, where we worked very hard with 171 parking to

14:11:52 accommodate more than the expected parking
14:11:57 requirements for the site, and be sure that there is
14:11:59 no overflow of parking, or illegal parking anywhere in
14:12:02 the vicinity, and we submitted a letter to you in that
14:12:06 regard.
14:12:09 The primary issue at this point, if I may put this on
14:12:12 the overhead, is the site being located on Franklin
14:12:16 here.
14:12:19 And we met with the folks involved at the church
14:12:21 located back here, the cross street is Tyler.
14:12:24 Now, the actual pedestrian distance of the site is
14:12:29 located here.
14:12:30 There are no other access points.
14:12:32 The only access point is on Franklin Street.
14:12:35 By Google measurement I have it at 400 feet or so for
14:12:39 a pedestrian to walk in that direction and make it all
14:12:41 around to that rear area.
14:12:43 So there is obviously buildings and structures between
14:12:45 the site and the folks who are involved with the uses
14:12:49 to the rear.
14:12:51 And we discussed and presented a number of mitigation
14:12:54 efforts or items that are directly addressed to all

14:12:59 the issues that we heard.
14:13:01 We talked about installing noise reduction in the
14:13:03 building, which is currently under construction.
14:13:06 We discussed reducing the usable space to 9,000 square
14:13:11 feet, more or less, of the use.
14:13:13 We discussed this on the outdoor lighting at the
14:13:16 church properties.
14:13:18 That's a typical element to stopping any kind of
14:13:22 activity or to help persuade people from coming onto a
14:13:26 property and doing things they shouldn't be doing.
14:13:29 We talk about providing their own security officer on
14:13:34 their properties during the critical times that the
14:13:38 use would be under operation.
14:13:40 That would be of course paid by the applicant and that
14:13:43 would be something critical to have someone at that
14:13:45 site being sure that nothing is being imposed upon.
14:13:49 That would be supplemented by circulation security
14:13:52 which would be circulating between the number of
14:13:55 parking lots that would be use used for the site.
14:13:58 Finally, with regard to another issue that the folks
14:14:01 behind us have brought up, which is trash that they
14:14:04 find on a Sunday morning, we indicated that obviously

14:14:08 there is a problem there now.
14:14:10 We would assume that issue, and be happy to have a
14:14:14 team out there very late Saturday night when things
14:14:18 calm down or Sunday to clean up their property.
14:14:21 So beyond a philosophical difference, I think we have
14:14:27 very concretely found what the issues are.
14:14:29 There are issues out there now according to those
14:14:31 folks.
14:14:31 I'm not here to speak for them obviously.
14:14:34 Our contention is, what you have here with this
14:14:37 applicant are long-term, experienced operators who
14:14:41 have a number of other clubs, indicated to you in
14:14:45 other parts of the country, and they have a track
14:14:48 record.
14:14:48 They are also a group that brought the amphitheater
14:14:51 down in Ybor and are making a major investment, my
14:14:54 understanding hundreds of thousands of dollars to
14:14:56 refurbish that club and reopen it.
14:14:58 They are doing the same thing here.
14:15:00 We have indicated to you they would be making an
14:15:03 investment of several hundred thousand dollars plus
14:15:06 the property in renovating the site.

14:15:08 And if I may say, when you look to the south of
14:15:11 Franklin Street, what you see is a lot of boarded up
14:15:15 buildings that are beginning to look like a
14:15:17 depression-like area, which is the last thing everyone
14:15:19 wants.
14:15:20 So in summary, we did spend a lot of time and met and
14:15:24 talked with all the folks, and again very nice folks.
14:15:27 We spoke very nicely.
14:15:29 But we believe that we have presented to them a list
14:15:32 of items that will address their concern.
14:15:34 Now, we don't have an agreement with them.
14:15:37 Their communication to me was that what we presented,
14:15:40 it was not enough, and that there were philosophical
14:15:45 differences.
14:15:45 But we are prepared to enter into whatever private
14:15:48 agreement to lock in those requirements for this use,
14:15:55 and really in summary we believe we have done
14:15:57 everything we can possibly be done in an area that
14:15:59 could use investment or renovations.
14:16:02 Thank you.
14:16:08 I do want to indicate to you Mrs. Cullis was here
14:16:13 before, stuck in New York, she's having travel

14:16:15 difficulties so unfortunately she could not be here,
14:16:17 which she planned to do today.
14:16:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:16:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:16:27 Did we get a report from officer Miller last time of?
14:16:29 Do you want to come to the mike?
14:16:31 >>> City of Tampa police department has no objections.
14:16:40 Special use.
14:16:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:16:46 Anyone from the public wishes to address council on
14:16:48 this petition?
14:16:49 Anyone here wish to address council on this petition?
14:16:52 Please come forward.
14:16:56 >>> Chairman Scott, members of council, my name is Jim
14:16:58 Carlbrine, chairman of the administrative council at
14:17:03 First United Methodist Church, and I reside at 4519 --
14:17:11 New Tampa.
14:17:11 You already heard at the request of Chairman Scott at
14:17:13 our last meeting that we as the opposition to this
14:17:18 petition meet with the petitioner and see if some
14:17:23 concerns could be alleviated by their proposals.
14:17:27 We have had that meeting, as Mr. Pressman told you.

14:17:30 It was a productive one that resulted in some
14:17:33 proposals that reduced our concerns somewhat, but does
14:17:37 not eliminate them.
14:17:40 Essential elements that the meeting has been
14:17:43 summarized and letters to each of you, and as Mr.
14:17:47 Pressman indicated they speak to additional personal
14:17:49 security, clean-up on Sunday mornings, valet parking,
14:17:55 security, building noise abatement, reduction in the
14:17:57 wet zoning space from 15 to approximately 10,000
14:18:02 square feet, and installation of outside lighting in
14:18:06 the area outside the club, to and including the areas
14:18:09 of Methodist place and our church.
14:18:17 However, three of these suggestions were documented to
14:18:19 us as shown in the slide that Mr. Pressman presented
14:18:22 with the exception on the reduced wet zone area,
14:18:26 installation of additional lighting, and a more
14:18:28 detailed information about the ability to insulate
14:18:31 this building, which is 115-year-old building, as
14:18:36 determined by an acoustical expert.
14:18:39 Since these items were proposed at the meeting, we
14:18:43 accept them as valid commitments by the petitioner,
14:18:46 which I think Mr. Pressman has indicated.

14:18:50 The petitioner at the meeting rejected considerations
14:18:53 of the following.
14:18:54 Number one, to change the venue from a 4(COP) rating
14:19:01 to an "R" for a restaurant instead of a nightclub.
14:19:06 A change in the operating hours to accomplish an
14:19:10 earlier closing, and perhaps a later opening, to
14:19:13 reduce the duration of alcohol consumption.
14:19:17 And thirdly, the possibility that they would accept a
14:19:21 one-year contingency zoning to evaluate their
14:19:24 operation as a good neighbor on North Franklin.
14:19:27 These were rejected as problems to their business
14:19:30 plan, to their lack of experience or no experience in
14:19:33 the restaurant business, and a significant investment
14:19:37 that would put significant risk at not being able to
14:19:41 continue the zoning after the first year.
14:19:46 The church and Methodist place appreciate these
14:19:49 proposals that the petitioner has made and think that
14:19:55 they will to some extent reduce the concerns of
14:19:57 religious institutions, residences and business and
14:20:00 professional groups in the area, but the leadership of
14:20:04 both the church and Methodist place voted to strongly
14:20:07 continue to oppose this petition.

14:20:12 As a matter of principle and the fact that we believe
14:20:18 there continues to be significant risk and miss
14:20:21 behavior and noise abatement that is beyond the
14:20:23 control of the petitioner.
14:20:24 We also strongly believe that North Franklin Street
14:20:27 needs a better use improvement than what is shown
14:20:32 here.
14:20:33 (Bell sounds).
14:20:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
14:20:34 >>> Finally we ask if you do above these objections
14:20:37 approve it that these proposals by the petitioner be
14:20:40 put as a condition of site plan.
14:20:42 Thank you very much.
14:20:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
14:20:44 Next speaker.
14:20:48 >>> I'm David Berry, representing the Board of
14:20:52 Directors at Methodist place and also the 200
14:20:55 residents that reside just down the street at 400 east
14:20:59 Harrison.
14:21:00 We certainly want to speak to in support of the
14:21:04 church's position in this matter.
14:21:07 We have a large number of residents that we are happy

14:21:10 to provide housing for the elderly, in close proximity
14:21:16 to this project.
14:21:17 Our main concern, of course, is the fact that you
14:21:19 have, as Mr. Culp said, a very aged building that was
14:21:23 never built with any consideration or need for any
14:21:30 type of soundproofing or sound containment.
14:21:36 When you look at the hours of operation that this type
14:21:38 of facility will be in operation, it will certainly be
14:21:45 into the wee hours of the morning.
14:21:48 Looking at probably a 3 a.m. closing time, before you
14:21:53 clear the traffic and get folks out of the area.
14:21:56 You have elderly folks about a block away, and trying
14:22:01 to get to sleep, and most of them try to turn in a
14:22:04 little bit before three in the morning or four in the
14:22:08 morning, I'm sure.
14:22:09 I think this is just going to be the beginning of a
14:22:11 real problem for us, and taking care of our tenants in
14:22:17 the building.
14:22:20 And I think it speaks to the incompatibility that this
14:22:24 type of a facility in such close proximity to
14:22:27 residential.
14:22:28 That area is certainly a blossoming residential area.

14:22:31 We have residences that are across the street,
14:22:34 townhouses, condos, the condominiums that are in the
14:22:37 old Ellington hotel building just a block north really
14:22:41 Marvelous facility, redevelopment there that's taken
14:22:45 place.
14:22:46 It has some other things that are happening on it.
14:22:48 Franklin Street to the north.
14:22:50 And as far as the area to the south, not only are
14:22:54 there opportunities for redevelopment there, with some
14:22:56 of the boarded up buildings, there are also some very
14:23:00 nice high-rises down there.
14:23:02 So everything to the south of this project is not all
14:23:07 necessarily boarded up, dilapidated decrepit
14:23:11 buildings.
14:23:13 So our main concern is the incompatibility of the
14:23:15 project in such close proximity to the residential
14:23:19 element.
14:23:20 And I think it just lass like it has the same type of
14:23:26 problems that could occur that we now face with Ybor.
14:23:32 And I'm not trying to draw a comparison other than
14:23:35 just to say that we have situations in the city right
14:23:37 now where we have entertainment facilities and

14:23:40 residential development in close proximity to each
14:23:43 other, and they quite obviously are incompatible.
14:23:46 So we would request that you take these things into
14:23:51 consideration and reject the application on those
14:23:54 grounds.
14:23:55 Thank you very much.
14:23:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
14:23:59 >>> My name is Shawn Harrison.
14:24:07 I am a property owner, probably the closest property
14:24:10 owner to the subject site.
14:24:11 We are catter-cornered.
14:24:15 I sat up here for eight years and never knew how to
14:24:18 work this thing.
14:24:19 This is our building right here.
14:24:21 And this is the site.
14:24:23 This is our parking right here where these cars are.
14:24:25 And this grass lot right here is vacant.
14:24:29 There was an old building that burned down several
14:24:32 years ago and encumbered by a demolition lien.
14:24:35 We tried to buy that lot for several years now to
14:24:37 expand our law firm.
14:24:38 There is interest in this part of downtown in

14:24:41 commercial development.
14:24:41 You see it happening all the time, and in fact what's
14:24:44 happening over here in this area right here where the
14:24:47 park is, is there is a new rezoning that's either
14:24:51 coming -- has already come before the council to do
14:24:53 another high-rise condominium or apartment project.
14:24:56 So there is great interest in this part of downtown
14:24:58 right now to continue to do redevelopment that some of
14:25:02 us who were pioneer as few years ago started in
14:25:05 bringing office buildings.
14:25:06 And if this were to turn into an entertainment
14:25:09 district, you would halt that momentum very quickly.
14:25:14 So we would ask that you all would respectfully deny
14:25:17 the petition.
14:25:18 Mr. Pressman is a good man, and this is just simply
14:25:20 the wrong project at the wrong time and in the wrong
14:25:23 part of downtown.
14:25:24 Thank you for your attention.
14:25:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anybody else wish to address council
14:25:30 on this petition?
14:25:31 Anyone else?
14:25:32 >>> I'm Christine Burdick with the downtown

14:25:38 partnership.
14:25:41 I spoke with you and to you before when this first
14:25:44 presentation was made.
14:25:45 I haven't had the opportunity to talk to Mr. Pressman,
14:25:48 but I haven't been in conversation with the Methodist
14:25:51 church.
14:25:52 I want to just explain to you some of our continued
14:25:56 cautions.
14:25:58 We would like you to be aware that I perhaps have an
14:26:01 idea of a solution or something that we could work
14:26:04 towards.
14:26:05 Because of the prominence of this wet zoning as was
14:26:09 discussed in a previous item, there are concerns about
14:26:16 the impact on the potential surrounding neighborhood
14:26:19 which is and will be a developing neighborhood.
14:26:26 We are already in this neighborhood experiencing
14:26:28 difficulties with the club that exists now just two
14:26:31 blocks away, and all of the issues, the noise, and the
14:26:35 parking, and the cleanliness are ones that actually we
14:26:39 end up cleaning up on Monday mornings because they
14:26:42 have their biggest nights on Sunday.
14:26:45 As well, there are some challenges with the new club

14:26:49 and the towers at Channelside, in the Channel
14:26:52 District, because again they were not real
14:26:55 knowledgeable about the market, and so they are having
14:26:57 a hard time working into the parking and some of the
14:26:59 issues that they are experiencing because of the
14:27:01 people that they are attracting.
14:27:03 So knowing these things, the challenges, we need to be
14:27:06 very, very cautious that these owners have really,
14:27:10 honestly worked it all out.
14:27:12 Because they have a lot of experience, but they don't
14:27:15 have experience in this market.
14:27:17 And I'm personally concerned about them opening clubs
14:27:21 in a certain limited amount of time, or trying
14:27:24 physically and trying monetarily to manage and build
14:27:28 and open two clubs of very similar makeup in the urban
14:27:33 core of Tampa, downtown Tampa.
14:27:37 I think their knowledge of parking realities is not
14:27:41 complete.
14:27:44 The requirement are probably not enough.
14:27:46 And there isn't as much parking around that
14:27:48 neighborhood on public land as they might think or
14:27:52 believe.

14:27:52 Now, as I said before, we want there to be adult
14:27:56 gathering places that attract people who are going to
14:28:00 make a little bit of noise in downtown.
14:28:02 We don't believe that residents have the ability to
14:28:05 close downtown at 8:00 at night.
14:28:08 But we want to make sure that we use good caution and
14:28:13 good ownership, and we have to be strategic about what
14:28:18 we allow and how we let it develop.
14:28:20 I will tell you that I have been made aware of, and I
14:28:23 am doing a little bit of research, and I hope that
14:28:26 legal, if you are interested, can join me in that.
14:28:29 There are other cities that have wet zoning policies
14:28:33 that allow them to put certain conditions on the wet
14:28:37 zoning during certain hours.
14:28:40 So you can have a regular license until 10:00 to do
14:28:43 one thing or 12:00 to do other things.
14:28:45 But you can mandate through the zoning process that
14:28:49 other cities have, to put more conditional uses after
14:28:53 a certain hour.
14:28:55 Or on a certain day.
14:28:56 So the noise level, or the amount of people using the
14:29:00 club, or the kind of things that are done inside the

14:29:03 club, could be monitored by -- it would have to be
14:29:07 enforced but could be monitored through this
14:29:09 conditional use over the life of a wet zoning.
14:29:13 So that could be something that could be looked into.
14:29:16 Thank you.
14:29:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:29:17 Anyone else?
14:29:19 Mr. Pressman?
14:29:30 Five minutes rebuttal.
14:29:31 >> I do want to put on the record -- I don't think I
14:29:34 did -- I am an agent for the applicant.
14:29:37 The general theory behind this issue is very similar
14:29:44 to many that you have looked at for many, many years,
14:29:47 and that is on one hand investment, economic
14:29:51 opportunity, some jobs, and renovation in an area
14:29:56 that's desperately needed, versus concerns from the
14:29:59 neighborhood.
14:30:02 You have done that for a long time.
14:30:05 The only element that I can point out to you -- and I
14:30:08 am not going to repeat them all and go through it
14:30:10 again -- is that we have strived for business, and it
14:30:13 is an experience business people who are making major

14:30:16 investments in the community, and this particular area
14:30:21 is something that needs to be balanced, and we believe
14:30:24 that what we presented to you allows you to take that
14:30:27 balance, and it's a site and operation that will work.
14:30:32 We do appreciate the additional time to work with the
14:30:34 folks from the community, and we appreciate your
14:30:37 consideration.
14:30:37 Thank you.
14:30:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
14:30:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:30:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:30:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to thank Mr. Pressman for
14:30:58 making a very eloquent, precise presentation, and with
14:31:03 a lot of respect that I have for him and his
14:31:05 organization, they always come up and do it very
14:31:09 diligently.
14:31:10 On the other side is what I tried to get earlier
14:31:13 before we went on lunch time.
14:31:16 When we zone one of these locations, it's forever.
14:31:19 It's not for tomorrow.
14:31:20 It's not for the next day.
14:31:23 It is forever.

14:31:26 And that's why I asked the legal department to see if
14:31:30 we could get something through the legislature, and
14:31:33 maybe some of these would have a better opportunity,
14:31:36 because it won't be forever.
14:31:38 When you hear that the area is coming around in
14:31:43 another sense revitalizing itself on its own, do we
14:31:48 need any extra help?
14:31:50 I said that earlier, that something is done today, and
14:31:54 30 years from now you say, Why did I put that there?
14:31:57 When the buildings in the neighborhood and the good
14:31:59 people not only from this community but others are
14:32:06 making a hard choice but making the right choice in
14:32:09 redeveloping the area.
14:32:10 So, therefore, I feel that I cannot support this
14:32:15 ordinance based on the facts that were presented to us
14:32:19 today, for factors of unknown reasons.
14:32:24 It's imperative to us to make sure that both sides of
14:32:28 the issues are heard.
14:32:29 And I think they were heard today in this public
14:32:32 forum.
14:32:33 So that being said, I move for denial, Mr. Chairman.
14:32:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

14:32:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Do you want me to be more specific?
14:32:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, sir.
14:32:49 I don't know if you or another council member for the
14:32:53 purposes of the record wish to make reference to the
14:32:55 criteria of 27-269 which are in your staff report --
14:33:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll let Mrs. Mulhern do that she's
14:33:09 much better than I am.
14:33:10 >>MARY MULHERN: I can read better.
14:33:12 27-269 general standards to ensure safety, health,
14:33:18 public, welfare, we heard a lot of concerns and have a
14:33:21 lot of written concerns from residents, senior
14:33:25 residents, businesses, and two different congregations
14:33:29 about the noise, the litter, drunkenness, and the
14:33:33 things they have experienced with an existing club
14:33:36 that's several blocks away, not even as close as this.
14:33:42 27-269-A-1st, then A-3 that is compatible with
14:33:48 contiguous surrounding property, we are talking about
14:33:52 churches, offices, residential, and this would be the
14:33:55 first major club, bar, that would be around there.
14:34:01 And also number 5 under the same section, that the use
14:34:04 will not establish a precedent or encourage more
14:34:07 intensive or incompatible uses in the surrounding

14:34:11 area.
14:34:11 Right now, within a thousand feet there are five
14:34:15 restaurants with liquor licenses and none of them is a
14:34:18 bar.
14:34:18 So this would be the first bar in this area.
14:34:20 So I think that would be likely to set a precedent.
14:34:24 So for those reasons.
14:34:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, also I believe there was a
14:34:28 request for waivers under 27-272, distance separation.
14:34:34 Is it part of your motion that --
14:34:37 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, business separation, there are
14:34:40 establishments, churches, and institutional uses
14:34:44 within a thousand feet.
14:34:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
14:34:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just say, I'm going to support
14:34:51 the motion on the floor.
14:34:53 However, I do think that maybe some development in
14:35:02 terms of the development patterns of downtown, we want
14:35:05 downtown to live and come to life and have business,
14:35:11 and have opportunity after 6:00.
14:35:15 There has to be a time and place to allow for certain
14:35:18 types of function.

14:35:22 I will tell you the club is already in close proximity
14:35:27 already and they have a lot going on there.
14:35:30 I just pass by.
14:35:34 [ Laughter ]
14:35:35 I'm a preacher.
14:35:38 I'm not allowed to stop in clubs.
14:35:41 [ Laughter ]
14:35:42 With that being said, all in favor of the motion, will
14:35:50 you signify by saying Aye?
14:35:51 Opposes?
14:35:52 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder being
14:35:54 absent at vote.
14:35:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:36:02 Thank you, Mr. Miranda.
14:36:05 Item 67.
14:36:11 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
14:36:12 You are here today to consider the adoption of an
14:36:14 ordinance which would amend the Tampa Bay scepter
14:36:16 development of regional impact.
14:36:19 What this amendment would do, it would open the open
14:36:23 in July and August to the public.
14:36:25 As you may know the Buccaneers have moved their summer

14:36:27 training camp to the Tampa facility.
14:36:30 The number of days would be limited to 25 days only
14:36:33 within the months of July and August with only six of
14:36:37 those days night practices.
14:36:42 The City of Tampa, many city department departments as
14:36:45 well as the Planning Commission, DCA, other state and
14:36:48 local agencies, this development order was drafted
14:36:52 with conditions which limited number of days of
14:36:54 operation, the hours of operation, the noise, the
14:36:56 traffic operation, signal timing, and annual
14:37:00 monitoring.
14:37:07 I'm available if there are any questions.
14:37:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public want to address
14:37:17 council on this issue? Anyone from the public want to
14:37:19 address council on this issue?
14:37:22 All right, Mr. Miranda.
14:37:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: September 6, 1996.
14:37:29 >> There was in a motion to open.
14:37:31 >> I thought --
14:37:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If there was, I'm sorry.
14:37:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, if I may, I move TV
14:37:40 remaining items that are available from 1:30 which I

14:37:44 think are 67, 68, 69, 70, 71 has been continued, and
14:37:52 72 and 73.
14:37:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:37:58 (Motion carried).
14:37:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:38:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Now that I gave you heartburn,
14:38:06 we're open.
14:38:08 >>GINA GRIMES: Hill, ward and Henderson, 101 East
14:38:12 Kennedy Boulevard, 3700.
14:38:14 We represent the Buccaneers football stadium limited
14:38:17 partnership, who is the applicant on this DRI
14:38:21 amendment.
14:38:21 And I am joined here this morning by Brian Ford who is
14:38:25 the vice-president of the Buccaneers business
14:38:28 administration.
14:38:29 And I would like to make a presentation, if you would
14:38:33 like me to.
14:38:35 Mr. Ford can also address --
14:38:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, Ms. Grimes -- do you have any
14:38:44 questions?
14:38:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No.
14:38:45 The only question is she introduced the gentleman as

14:38:49 what?
14:38:50 >>> Vice-president of administration.
14:38:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That means he handles the money.
14:38:54 I want it clarified what he does.
14:38:56 I have no problem with that.
14:38:57 I think you have safeguards, certain hours or
14:38:59 something.
14:39:00 You just put that on the record and I'm finished with
14:39:02 that.
14:39:02 >>GINA GRIMES: There are certainly different
14:39:04 conditions in the development order that ensure that
14:39:06 the impacts of this proposal will be mitigated.
14:39:09 And as Ms. Kert has indicated it's been reviewed not
14:39:13 only at the local level but the Regional Planning
14:39:14 Council and at the state level by both the department
14:39:17 of community affairs and FDOT and every agency has
14:39:21 recommended approval.
14:39:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you did a good job.
14:39:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You can breathe now.
14:39:34 >>> I'm okay.
14:39:35 I never know.
14:39:36 I never know.

14:39:37 [ Laughter ]
14:39:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't know what I'm going to say.
14:39:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, he leaned over and told me in my
14:39:44 ear he's going to give you a hard time a.
14:39:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I admit I did say that.
14:39:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:39:50 Motion to close.
14:39:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
14:39:53 >> Second.
14:39:54 (Motion carried).
14:39:55 >>GWEN MILLER: An ordinance of the city of Tampa,
14:39:58 Florida approving the 6th amendment to the
14:40:01 development order for the Tampa Bay development of
14:40:06 regional impact DRI a previously approved development
14:40:10 regional impact pursuant to chapter 380, Florida
14:40:13 statutes, in response to a notification of proposed
14:40:16 change filed by the Buccaneers football stadium
14:40:19 limited partnership providing an effective date here
14:40:22 of.
14:40:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Sorry to interrupt but we are a
14:40:26 little bit out of order.
14:40:27 Just by a show of hands was there any member of the

14:40:29 public who did wish to speak?
14:40:31 >> I asked that question earlier on:
14:40:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I wanted to make sure.
14:40:35 Seeing none, I apologize for interrupting.
14:40:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I did ask that question, so okay.
14:40:39 You heard the motion.
14:40:40 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:40:42 Thank you.
14:40:45 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and
14:40:48 Mulhern being absent at vote.
14:40:50 Second reading of the ordinance will be held June
14:40:52 4th at 9:30 a.m.
14:40:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:40:55 Item 68.
14:41:02 >>ERIC COTTON: Land Development Coordination.
14:41:04 This is petition V 08-94.
14:41:07 This was -- council saw this petition similar to this
14:41:11 as a PD, two months ago, V 08-38, a property at 6112
14:41:19 South Westshore Boulevard.
14:41:21 Petitioner is requesting to requesting a 4(COP-R),
14:41:26 which is for beer, wine and alcohol, on the an alcohol
14:41:33 and restaurant setting.

14:41:34 This is an existing convenience store which is being
14:41:36 converted over.
14:41:40 This is the current site to become a restaurant. It's
14:41:41 going to be roughly 5200 square feet. Roughly 1300
14:41:41 square feet will be outside. They had adequate
14:41:41 parking for the site based on the PD.
14:41:42 They are asking for the standard waivers for
14:42:03 institutional uses.
14:42:04 Other places that sell alcohol and residential uses.
14:42:08 I did receive an e-mail yesterday from the school
14:42:09 board, which I passed out and the city clerk should
14:42:14 have a copy of it.
14:42:15 It came from David Bersinco.
14:42:21 They are objecting to the request.
14:42:23 They would prefer not to have alcohol as close to the
14:42:26 school as Monroe middle school.
14:42:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: May I inquire, Mr. Chairman?
14:42:32 Did you supply that to the petitioner? Does the
14:42:33 petitioner have it?
14:42:35 >>ERIC COTTON: I handed it to him this morning.
14:42:45 Monroe Middle School is listed by their survey as 580
14:42:51 feet.

14:42:54 This is the requested wet zoning or special use
14:42:57 location.
14:42:58 This is the school.
14:43:00 If you have any questions I will be glad to answer
14:43:14 them.
14:43:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Did you go over how close the
14:43:17 closest residential is?
14:43:19 >>ERIC COTTON: The closest residential is next door.
14:43:22 Right next door to them.
14:43:26 This is the property right directly behind.
14:43:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
14:43:37 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
14:43:39 department.
14:43:40 City of Tampa police department has no objections.
14:43:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
14:43:49 >>STEVE MICHELINI: You may remember, council, this
14:43:51 went through rezoning a few months ago, and this is
14:43:53 the wet zoning that accompanies the request for a
14:43:57 restaurant. Alcohol sales are not a principle use
14:44:00 here, and the access is off of Westshore.
14:44:03 It's not near impacting the school in terms of --
14:44:07 there's no crossover and access traffic.

14:44:12 We certainly respectfully request your approval on
14:44:14 this.
14:44:15 We adjusted the site plan through the PD process to
14:44:18 address the staff concerns at that point, and the
14:44:23 standard waivers are being requested for distance to
14:44:25 residential and those kinds of issues.
14:44:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me ask you a question.
14:44:32 So the principal use is a restaurant?
14:44:35 >>> Yes, sir.
14:44:36 It has to be 51% food.
14:44:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess my question to staff is, and I
14:44:41 notice historically sometime when the issues come up,
14:44:43 a government will answer out of tradition or custom
14:44:50 when it comes before them, if they are requesting a
14:44:55 waiver, they will respond in the negative to issuing
14:44:58 it.
14:45:00 Was there discussion relative this issue?
14:45:03 >>> From the school board itself?
14:45:05 >> Yes.
14:45:06 >>ERIC COTTON: Land development.
14:45:07 I do not know.
14:45:08 I did receive an e-mail from them, like I said,

14:45:11 yesterday.
14:45:12 And they just received it yesterday morning.
14:45:19 But --
14:45:20 >> We got a copy of the e-mail.
14:45:22 >>> I do not know.
14:45:23 This is the first time -- I do them off and on.
14:45:27 That I ever received an e-mail from the school board.
14:45:32 They have a request that goes to the administration.
14:45:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I saw that.
14:45:35 Okay.
14:45:37 >>STEVE MICHELINI: If I could address that for a
14:45:39 second.
14:45:39 Typically their objections are for convenience stores
14:45:44 selling alcohol to go.
14:45:45 There's no alcohol to go that will be associated with
14:45:47 a restaurant.
14:45:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My concern, Mr. Michelini, is the
14:45:54 neighbors who are immediately adjacent to the west.
14:45:58 So my question is, what are the hours of operation?
14:46:02 Is there any outdoor -- are there any outdoor tables?
14:46:06 And would you consider a conditional?
14:46:08 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I don't think that they can go with

14:46:10 a conditional simply because of the expense that they
14:46:13 are undertaking regarding the construction and the
14:46:15 renovation of the building itself.
14:46:17 But in terms of hours of operation, they are planning
14:46:21 to close at midnight.
14:46:25 That's just a standard they were looking at for a
14:46:28 typical restaurant operation.
14:46:30 There are no outdoor seating areas.
14:46:32 There is a patio that's enclosed, it's semi enclosed
14:46:37 on the top level but buffered on the backside.
14:46:40 So that there is no noise transmitted back toward the
14:46:44 neighborhood itself.
14:46:44 The parking lot itself is where the zero lot line
14:46:49 adjacent to residential occurs, and the building is
14:46:52 set back about 70 feet from the property line.
14:46:56 It's right up on Westshore.
14:46:58 It's the old laundromat that's being converted, at
14:47:03 least proposed.
14:47:05 The photograph you saw was a convenience store
14:47:07 adjacent to it and that's not actually the site.
14:47:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions?
14:47:14 Thank you.

14:47:15 This is a public hearing.
14:47:16 Anyone from the public?
14:47:18 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I want to mention quickly we did
14:47:20 meet extensively with the neighborhood association.
14:47:23 Mr. Steenson is here to speak about it.
14:47:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public.
14:47:26 Mr. Steenson, come on down.
14:47:28 Anyone else from the public wishes to address council?
14:47:30 Come forward.
14:47:39 >>> Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, members of council.
14:47:41 Al Steenson, 4100 West Leila Avenue here today
14:47:45 representing the Gandy Sun Bay South Civic
14:47:49 Association.
14:47:52 I can tell you this.
14:47:53 At our April meeting, Mr. Lewis came and he reviewed
14:48:00 his entire business plan.
14:48:01 We talked about it extensively.
14:48:06 And we found that it was mostly acceptable to the
14:48:09 members of the association in terms of hours, hours of
14:48:12 operation.
14:48:13 You just asked the question.
14:48:14 The scope of his operation.

14:48:17 And noise containment, the lighting, and around the
14:48:24 parking lot, and so forth and so on.
14:48:27 And I would like to point out that should this go
14:48:32 forward -- and we certainly hope it will -- before
14:48:35 this gentleman even opens the door, he's going to
14:48:38 invest close to or over a million dollars in our
14:48:43 community.
14:48:44 To get this operation going.
14:48:45 This is not a fly-by-night.
14:48:49 The association did vote to support the petition.
14:48:54 Why?
14:48:55 We want this establishment to succeed in our
14:48:57 community.
14:48:59 We said that at the rezoning hearings.
14:49:01 And we feel that the being able to sell the alcohol
14:49:05 will just enhance his ability to be successful.
14:49:10 It's not a bar.
14:49:11 It's not a nightclub.
14:49:13 I guarantee you, if it were, we wouldn't be out here
14:49:17 supporting it.
14:49:17 I guarantee you we would not be supporting it.
14:49:20 Yesterday, I gave Mr. Michelini a package of e-mails

14:49:30 representing support from individuals.
14:49:31 He also had some at the meeting we had in April.
14:49:34 Yesterday afternoon late, I received this and I would
14:49:38 like to quickly briefly read into the record.
14:49:41 I'm a resident of Westshore Yacht Club and I would
14:49:44 like to voice my support for the wet zoning petition V
14:49:47 08-94, 4(COP-R).
14:49:51 I'm more than happy to provide my support for this
14:49:53 establishment of the new business in my local
14:49:57 community.
14:49:57 Unfortunately, I'm out of town visiting a very sick
14:49:59 friend in California all this week.
14:50:02 I cannot attend the hearing on Thursday to voice my
14:50:04 support in person.
14:50:06 If I may be of further -- assist further in support of
14:50:10 this cause, please let me know.
14:50:11 Signed, Donald Phillips, 6052 East Manor Drive, Tampa,
14:50:18 Florida.
14:50:19 You may know him as Don Phillips, the managing
14:50:21 director of Phillips Development Realty.
14:50:26 This particular petition has support of the community,
14:50:31 it has support of the association, and we would ask

14:50:34 that you approve it and let's get on with business in
14:50:38 our community.
14:50:39 Thank you very much.
14:50:41 Excuse me, if these had not been put into the record,
14:50:44 I will be more than happy to put them in.
14:50:48 And here is a copy of that e-mail from Mr. Phillips.
14:50:52 Thank you very much, council.
14:50:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public?
14:51:05 Anyone else from the public?
14:51:08 Are you from the public?
14:51:10 >>> No, sir.
14:51:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: He's in the public.
14:51:13 [ Laughter ]
14:51:15 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I handed the clerk several letter
14:51:17 of support from the public.
14:51:19 We are respectfully requesting your approval.
14:51:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
14:51:23 >> Second.
14:51:23 (Motion carried).
14:51:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Who wants to read it?
14:51:29 Councilman Miranda.
14:51:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I remember this project.

14:51:33 This is the one they wanted to build two stories.
14:51:36 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Yes, sir.
14:51:39 >> September 6, 1996.
14:51:41 Mr. Chairman, I move an ordinance, a special use
14:51:43 permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, small venues,
14:51:47 making lawful the sale of beverage containing alcohol
14:51:49 regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine and
14:51:51 liquor, 4(COP-R), for consumption off premises -- on
14:51:55 premises only in connection with a restaurant business
14:51:57 establishment at or from that certain lot, plot or
14:51:59 tract of land located at 6112 South Westshore
14:52:05 Boulevard, and 4733 West Bay Avenue, Tampa, Florida,
14:52:09 as more particularly described in section 2 thereof,
14:52:13 approving waivers set forth herein waiving certain
14:52:17 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
14:52:19 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
14:52:22 conflict, providing an effective date.
14:52:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
14:52:28 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
14:52:30 Opposes?
14:52:31 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder being
14:52:33 absent at vote.

14:52:34 Second reading of the ordinance will be held June
14:52:37 4th at 9:30 a.m.
14:52:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 69.
14:52:47 Item 69?
14:52:53 >>ERIC COTTON: Land Development Coordination.
14:52:54 This is for V 09-46.
14:52:57 Property at 1600 east 8th Avenue, A-200.
14:53:01 This is the Muvico movie theater.
14:53:08 They are currently wet.
14:53:12 They were approved for an old wet zoning when Centro
14:53:18 Ybor went through, it was ordinance 2000-179 for
14:53:22 4(COP-X) which was approved with conditions.
14:53:27 These are pictures of Centro itself.
14:53:29 I'm sure council is familiar with the location.
14:53:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: are we familiar with this?
14:53:35 [ Laughter ]
14:53:36 >>ERIC COTTON: Land development is objecting to the
14:53:38 request.
14:53:39 At the time of the staff report, Mr. Michelini had not
14:53:47 placed any conditions on the plan.
14:53:49 Staff was concerned requesting over 40,000 feet of
14:53:51 straight 4(COP-X) for beer and wine and liquor

14:53:54 consumption on premises only, without any conditions
14:53:57 based on the previous ordinance that had been adopted
14:54:00 back in 2000.
14:54:01 Staff thought there should be some extra conditions on
14:54:03 the plan itself.
14:54:05 Mr. Michelini did revise the plans.
14:54:07 You have the revision on the plan now.
14:54:09 The conditions that he placed on there. Again if you
14:54:12 would, if you are inclined to approve this, just state
14:54:15 between first and second reading that the plans have
14:54:17 to be amended to reflect the conditions be placed on
14:54:20 there.
14:54:30 He added a condition on the plan today to be added to
14:54:36 the staff report.
14:54:38 I have a copy of them.
14:54:41 I can give it to the clerk's office.
14:54:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want to inform the council of
14:54:45 what those conditions are?
14:54:47 >> That would be helpful.
14:54:48 Let me grab my folder.
14:54:50 The condition that was placed on there was limited to
14:55:00 second level only, no ground level access.

14:55:03 The original approval back in 2000 limited it to only
14:55:08 35% of the entire area.
14:55:11 It was part of the movie, they were having an upscale
14:55:14 movie theater where you could serve alcohol, drink and
14:55:16 watch a movie.
14:55:17 This is throughout the entire theater.
14:55:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think staff had no objection to
14:55:28 the --
14:55:31 >>ERIC COTTON: With the conditions placed on there and
14:55:33 any other council may decide, we would have no
14:55:36 objections to that.
14:55:36 Based on the staff report we did.
14:55:41 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
14:55:43 department.
14:55:44 City of Tampa police department has no objections.
14:55:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:55:50 >>STEVE MICHELINI: On behalf of M.J. Wilkow.
14:55:54 They own and operate the Centro Ybor project and the
14:55:58 entire facility.
14:55:59 We are confirming that we agree to that condition that
14:56:02 we put on the site plan.
14:56:04 And it's already been added to the site plans which

14:56:07 you have.
14:56:08 We provide 24 hour security within the entire
14:56:11 facility, and we have agreed to comply with the site
14:56:15 conditions as established by the City of Tampa Land
14:56:17 Development Code.
14:56:18 So we are respectfully requesting your approval.
14:56:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:56:23 Yes, sir.
14:56:23 >>ERIC COTTON: Land development.
14:56:25 An additional condition, that we would appreciate
14:56:27 being placed on there, that alcoholic sales be in
14:56:31 relation to the movie theater itself.
14:56:33 If the movie theater goes away two years from now, or
14:56:36 in the future, and then they have a -- that it's
14:56:40 placed on there.
14:56:42 >>STEVE MICHELINI: If I can address that briefly.
14:56:43 It's not just a movie theater.
14:56:45 It's also for banquet facilities.
14:56:48 It involves special events and a variety of other
14:56:50 things.
14:56:50 So it's not just movie functions.
14:56:52 But it is a functioning area.

14:56:55 And watch what we did commit to the staff was that it
14:56:57 was not going to become a stand-alone bar.
14:57:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the problem we have is staff is
14:57:05 requesting that it be placed on movie theater so that
14:57:08 needs to be addressed.
14:57:09 >>> I think the other condition Steve mentioned the
14:57:12 other uses can be placed on the site plan, also.
14:57:15 As related to the movie theater, banquet hall, in the
14:57:19 fought our concern would be 40,000 square fat.
14:57:24 >>STEVE MICHELINI: We are committing to that.
14:57:27 It's not going to become a stand alone bar facility:
14:57:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Would it be your agreement to have
14:57:32 that placed as a note between first and second
14:57:34 reading?
14:57:35 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Yes, that's fine.
14:57:37 We will add that note.
14:57:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wish to address council on this
14:57:39 petition?
14:57:40 Anyone from the public?
14:57:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
14:57:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:57:43 (Motion carried).

14:57:45 >>MARY MULHERN: What was the first condition?
14:57:54 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Because it's a movie theater and it
14:57:56 extends from the first floor to the second floor,
14:57:57 there was a concern that you would have access coming
14:58:00 from the first floor going up to the movie theaters
14:58:02 and people would be drinking going up and down.
14:58:04 And what we committed to, and it's an existing site
14:58:07 condition anyway, that the petitioners -- theaters
14:58:10 don't have access to the ground level.
14:58:12 So your entrance is on the second level, and you go
14:58:15 into the theaters, and then you walk down into the
14:58:18 seating area.
14:58:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the conditions --
14:58:21 >>MARY MULHERN: You can only reach this theater from
14:58:23 the second level?
14:58:26 >>STEVE MICHELINI: That's correct.
14:58:26 The conditions are already on the site plan.
14:58:28 >>MARY MULHERN: That's already on there?
14:58:30 >> Yes.
14:58:30 >>STEVE MICHELINI: The staff asked to us further state
14:58:33 that it would not become a stand-alone bar and we'll
14:58:35 add that condition between first and second reading:

14:58:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I'm sorry.
14:58:44 Mr. Cotton has handed me a note.
14:58:47 Is this note already on the site plan?
14:58:49 >>ERIC COTTON: That's on the site plan now.
14:58:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That has to be added between first and
14:59:01 second reading.
14:59:02 I think that was part of your motion.
14:59:04 >>MARY MULHERN: That was my question.
14:59:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: to add banquet hall?
14:59:08 >> Banquet hall, movie theater.
14:59:10 >>STEVE MICHELINI: It's a special event area.
14:59:11 If I could see the language:
14:59:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The language you have already added
14:59:16 to the site plan already exists.
14:59:20 >>STEVE MICHELINI: If we could incorporate that on the
14:59:22 site plan then I will add that physically onto the
14:59:25 plan between first and second reading, if there's any
14:59:27 errors or omissions or clarifications.
14:59:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Cotton, I believe at the second
14:59:34 reading you certified that has been added?
14:59:38 >>ERIC COTTON: Not only on there but the other
14:59:40 conditions:

14:59:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
14:59:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
14:59:45 I move an ordinance repealing ordinance number
14:59:49 2000-179 a special use permit S-2 for alcoholic venue
14:59:54 sales making lawful the sale of beverages, beer, wine
14:59:57 and liquor 4(COP-X) for consumption on premises only
15:00:01 at or from that certain lot, plot or tract of land
15:00:03 located at 1600 east 8th Avenue, unit A-200,
15:00:08 Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in
15:00:09 section 3 approving waivers as set forth herein
15:00:13 waiving certain restrictions as to distance based upon
15:00:16 certain find understand, imposing certain conditions
15:00:19 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict
15:00:21 providing an effective date.
15:00:21 And this is to include the condition that will be
15:00:26 placed on the site plan between first and second
15:00:29 reading, limiting this to venue with alcohol sales
15:00:34 limited to movie theater, banquet facilities, and
15:00:39 special events.
15:00:40 And not to be a stand-alone bar.
15:00:45 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
15:00:47 I apologize.

15:00:52 There are in a defined terms ever special event and
15:00:54 she had uncomfortable adding that.
15:00:56 >>MARY MULHERN: Strike that "special event."
15:01:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
15:01:04 Miranda.
15:01:05 All in favor?
15:01:06 Opposes?
15:01:06 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder being
15:01:08 absent at vote.
15:01:10 Second reading of the ordinance will be held June
15:01:13 4th at 9:30 a.m.
15:01:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 70.
15:01:33 >>ERIC COTTON: Land Development Coordination.
15:01:35 This is property at 723 west Columbus drive.
15:01:38 This property is V 09-245.
15:01:44 This property currently has a wet zoning on it.
15:01:47 It was conditional wet zoning.
15:01:48 Ordinance 2008-63.
15:01:56 This is where the current king's grocery store is.
15:02:00 This is looking towards the store itself.
15:02:05 Side of the store.
15:02:06 And then the rear of the store where the parking has

15:02:09 gone back behind it.
15:02:12 Currently, the DRC found it inconsistent with the
15:02:21 request as it stands.
15:02:22 Pending some comments being placed on the site plan by
15:02:27 the petitioner, primarily to add a couple of waivers
15:02:32 that would be placed for transportation's
15:02:34 requirements.
15:02:36 There are a couple of places with standard waivers
15:02:40 from 1,000 feet for the sale of alcoholic beverages,
15:02:46 residential, institutional uses.
15:02:48 There are eight parking spaces on-site.
15:02:51 The requirement is eight parking spaces and he's
15:02:54 asking for 2(APS) which is what he was awarded through
15:02:57 the conditional wet zoning back in 2008.
15:03:00 If you have any questions, I would be more than happy
15:03:02 to try to answer them.
15:03:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?
15:03:04 Officer Miller?
15:03:05 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
15:03:21 department.
15:03:21 City of Tampa police department has in a objection to
15:03:24 this continued wet zoning.

15:03:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
15:03:31 Excuse me, ma'am, let me hear from the petitioner.
15:03:34 Then you can come next.
15:03:35 Okay?
15:03:35 >>STEVE MICHELINI: This is king's grocery.
15:03:40 You may recall.
15:03:43 Council was kind enough to provide us with a
15:03:44 conditional wet zoning a little over a year ago.
15:03:48 And since that time, the owners had worked very
15:03:50 diligently to make sure that the establishment was
15:03:52 clean and operated in a safe manner.
15:03:54 I have a number of petitions signed by residents
15:03:58 supporting this petition.
15:04:00 I also have a letter from the principal of the Graham
15:04:05 elementary school indicating that they have no
15:04:07 objection, and this establishment has been operated in
15:04:11 a clean and efficient manner.
15:04:14 As you know, we have to come back to council to make
15:04:25 this a permanent provision in their code to allow them
15:04:31 to continue.
15:04:32 This is a neighborhood-serving grocery store.
15:04:35 And it's been serving in that function.

15:04:37 We have had very few police incidents regarding this
15:04:43 particular establishment.
15:04:44 And we are respectfully requesting your approval.
15:04:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?
15:04:50 You may come forward.
15:04:51 Anyone else from the public that wishes to address
15:04:53 this petition may come forward.
15:04:54 Come line up at this point, please.
15:04:56 >>> Nora Melton, and my concern, I was told they had
15:05:02 to have additional parking for the trucks and
15:05:04 everything coming in, which they did not do.
15:05:08 For four and a half years they used my parking
15:05:11 locality.
15:05:11 My son drew up a contract with them, and they balked
15:05:15 at it.
15:05:16 And it's gone through a lot more deals.
15:05:19 And I want to know what happened.
15:05:21 Why they got their temporary license without doing
15:05:24 like they were told to do.
15:05:27 Additional parking.
15:05:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:05:32 >> Will I get an answer?

15:05:34 >> Yes, ma'am.
15:05:34 We'll come back to that, okay?
15:05:36 >> Thank you.
15:05:38 Next speaker?
15:05:40 >>> Good afternoon.
15:05:43 I live in the neighborhood just adjacent to the
15:05:46 building at 725 park street.
15:05:52 It's very hard for our community to get around.
15:05:54 There's a lot of people of in that area that are
15:05:56 elderly, and the transportation is such that they
15:06:02 can't get to Sweetbay or Publix and so forth and so
15:06:04 on.
15:06:05 And this grocery store has added a very, very positive
15:06:08 motion to the community.
15:06:10 I can go in at any given time, get a Cuban sandwich,
15:06:16 the food is of outstanding quality, clean.
15:06:20 The whole place smells like bleach every time I walk
15:06:26 into the place.
15:06:27 I just have everything good to say about it.
15:06:30 It's a very positive, clean store.
15:06:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:06:32 Thank you, sir.

15:06:34 Anyone else from the public?
15:06:38 Sir, could you come back, state your name for the
15:06:40 record?
15:06:41 >> Allen ranch.
15:06:46 >> We got your address.
15:06:47 We just need your name.
15:06:48 Okay?
15:06:50 I ask staff to come back.
15:06:54 The lady asked about requirements from a year ago in
15:06:56 terms of the parking, say they were not met.
15:06:59 Do you want to speak to that?
15:07:00 >>ERIC COTTON: Land Development Coordination.
15:07:02 What was wet zoned under the conditional is just this
15:07:04 area here, not the entire building.
15:07:08 Did not add of that to parking.
15:07:09 If they wanted oh to get the entire site zoned, back
15:07:12 in 2008, they would have had to find additional
15:07:16 parking but were unable to do so.
15:07:18 They just came in for this area.
15:07:22 That's why they were limited.
15:07:24 That's what's currently -- the alcohol taking place.
15:07:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ma'am, did you understand his

15:07:30 explanation?
15:07:32 >>> My son came up before and he's been dealing with
15:07:42 them.
15:07:44 It has been one back and forth, back and forth.
15:07:48 I have fenced in my property.
15:07:51 And since then there's been a lot of commotion in the
15:07:54 neighborhood.
15:07:54 And I disagree with the man on Park Avenue because he
15:07:57 lives on park and I live on North Boulevard.
15:08:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:08:01 >>> What I don't understand is why then they didn't
15:08:05 have enough and why now they are supposed to have
15:08:07 enough.
15:08:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, ma'am.
15:08:08 >>> And they were in discussion of getting additional,
15:08:12 but they backed.
15:08:15 They really aren't trying.
15:08:16 They want something for nothing.
15:08:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, ma'am.
15:08:22 But staff did respond to the question, that was that
15:08:25 they would have to have additional park field goal
15:08:26 they were trying to get the whole area zoned.

15:08:28 They are only trying to get the area that's outlined
15:08:31 so we do recollect nice that.
15:08:34 Anything else, Mr. Michelini?
15:08:35 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Very briefly.
15:08:36 If you remember this is the corner of North Boulevard.
15:08:38 >>> Yes, sir, very familiar.
15:08:40 >> This woman that just spoke, this is her property.
15:08:42 And she fenced that off, so there is in a access here.
15:08:45 The parking that's assigned to this grocery store is
15:08:49 here.
15:08:50 And the parking is adequate for what we are
15:08:54 requesting.
15:08:55 And we are respectfully requesting your approval.
15:08:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
15:09:02 >>MARY MULHERN: I have one question.
15:09:03 Are they asking for any parking waivers?
15:09:05 >> No.
15:09:05 >>MARY MULHERN: Thanks.
15:09:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
15:09:14 Do you want to read that, councilman Caetano?
15:09:17 >>ERIC COTTON: Land development.
15:09:24 If council is inclined to approve this if they can

15:09:28 include the conditions that are in the staff report,
15:09:32 from transportation.
15:09:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
15:09:34 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance approving a special
15:09:36 using permit S-2 for alcohol beverage sales, small
15:09:39 venue, and making lawful the sale of beverages
15:09:42 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not
15:09:43 more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of
15:09:46 alcoholic content, beer and wine, 2(APS) in sealed
15:09:50 containers for consumption off premises only at or
15:09:55 from certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 723
15:09:59 west Columbus drive, Tampa, Florida, as more
15:10:02 particularly described -- particularly described in
15:10:06 section 2 hereof approving waivers as set forth herein
15:10:12 waiving certain restrictions as to distance based upon
15:10:13 certain findings, providing for repeal of all
15:10:15 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
15:10:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And that would include all of the
15:10:20 conditions outlined by staff in the report.
15:10:22 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Correct.
15:10:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
15:10:26 Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

15:10:29 All in favor of? Opposes?
15:10:30 Okay.
15:10:31 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder being
15:10:33 absent at vote.
15:10:34 Second reading of the ordinance will be held June
15:10:37 4thality 9:30 a.m.
15:10:40 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Thank you very much.
15:10:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 72.
15:10:43 Item 72.
15:10:46 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
15:10:47 Today you are here to hear the appeal of the variance
15:10:51 review board trial of case VRB 09-24, the property at
15:10:59 40 Adalia Avenue, and the petitioners are Atef
15:11:04 Zakhary.
15:11:12 The hardship criteria set forth in Tampa city code
15:11:16 Section 17.574 had been satisfied.
15:11:18 As a reminder, council, this appeal hearing is based
15:11:22 upon the record, and no new evidence or testimony can
15:11:25 be submitted as part of that record.
15:11:26 >> Diana boskow for Atef Zakhary.
15:11:37 I did bring some items for the council to consider, if
15:11:40 I could approach.

15:12:06 I haven't had an opportunity to review the document
15:12:08 but to be clear this can only be used for object oh
15:12:11 purposes only and has to be previously submitted into
15:12:14 the record.
15:12:16 They weren't previously submitted but they were
15:12:18 discussed at the underlying hearing and that's why I
15:12:20 brought them with me.
15:12:27 >>> And that's okay.
15:12:28 I should have consulted with you prior.
15:12:30 I can proceed without them if perhaps I can bring them
15:12:33 on the projector and if you have any objection.
15:12:37 >>> Council, I believe that the document has been
15:12:43 submitted as part of the record and if she wants to
15:12:46 read things that were factual by but I believe this
15:12:50 would be supplementing the record with additional
15:12:52 factual information so I ask you to disregard it.
15:12:56 >>> I wasn't at the underlying hearing at this matter,
15:13:00 so I relied on the record as well and one of the
15:13:03 things that I put in the packet which I don't know if
15:13:05 council has objections to it is page 24 of the
15:13:07 transcript.
15:13:08 It appears to me that one of the reasons that -- there

15:13:13 were two reasons that the criteria wasn't met.
15:13:15 It says the preponderance of the evidence to the
15:13:17 contrary that he's not met the hardship.
15:13:20 I'm not sure that's a correct standard, but that is
15:13:22 what was stated by Mr. LaBour.
15:13:25 Also that Mr. Zakhary did not meet the hardship
15:13:28 criteria specifically 3, 4, 5 and 6.
15:13:32 The criteria as far as the county goes, the Zakharys
15:13:39 are asking to add 10 feet to their fence that's
15:13:43 required 4-foot high.
15:13:45 They are asking to make it 6-foot high.
15:13:47 I brought pictures of their property that may try to
15:13:54 shed some light a little bit and show you what's going
15:13:56 on.
15:13:56 This is the Zakhary home.
15:13:57 They recently built it.
15:14:02 They are asking to put a 6-foot fence out front with a
15:14:06 gate that they can come in and out of.
15:14:08 I think either aside gate or swinging gate.
15:14:11 They are asking for a swinging gate.
15:14:13 Essentially, the council or the variance board has
15:14:16 five criteria that they should have considered.

15:14:18 The first two it appears were met if you look at
15:14:22 number 24 which says they had met the hardship
15:14:27 criteria as relates to 3, 4, 5 and 6.
15:14:29 I think there's only 3, 4, 5, not 6.
15:14:32 But to go over the criteria as an overview, criteria 1
15:14:37 and 2, I think there was sufficient evidence at the
15:14:39 underlying hearing to present the hardship.
15:14:42 There was talk about the Bank of America where 3 that
15:14:45 you people sort of descend upon the streets on Davis
15:14:49 Island to run the marathon, the Gasparilla, and those
15:14:52 were the newspapers articles I brought with me.
15:14:54 But they talk about Gasparilla at the underlying
15:14:56 hearing and 350 that you people descending on the
15:14:59 area.
15:15:00 Of course, Dr. Zakhary talked about the concern for
15:15:07 the safety of his family and the security issues along
15:15:10 with that.
15:15:10 His neighborhood apparently everybody videotaping and
15:15:13 taking pictures of him.
15:15:14 He's involved in a boundary line dispute with a
15:15:17 neighbor.
15:15:17 Also, I brought -- in fact one of the board members

15:15:25 asked if he had brought crime stats because he did
15:15:29 site crime.
15:15:30 I did bring some with me today.
15:15:31 If she objects I would like to discuss them.
15:15:33 But if that's okay, then I won't discuss them.
15:15:38 Anyway, in any event, in the first crime ter yeah
15:15:42 essentially he met that based on the record on page
15:15:45 24.
15:15:46 Discussing 3, 4 and 5, and the board's motion saying
15:15:52 that the preponderance of the evidence to the contrary
15:15:57 was not met, the fact that adding two feet to his
15:16:03 four-foot high fence, aside from promoting the safety
15:16:09 of Dr. Zakhary's family it promotes the health, safety
15:16:14 and welfare of the community in that a 6-foot hey
15:16:16 fence is harder to scale than a 4-foot high fence so
15:16:19 it does keep people out, and protect the people who
15:16:24 would come on the property.
15:16:25 He's right on the bay.
15:16:26 And that property was vacant before people were
15:16:29 fishing off the back dock and just coming on the
15:16:31 property.
15:16:33 Are that was one of the biggest concerns with regard

15:16:36 to Gasparilla and everybody entering his property.
15:16:38 I took a look at the neighborhood, and actually I know
15:16:44 there's been fences in the neighborhood.
15:16:46 I brought pictures with me.
15:16:48 But on that street in and of itself there are three to
15:16:51 four homes that have fences that are six foot high.
15:16:54 The columns, they are six foot high in the fences.
15:16:57 That was brought up in the underlying hearing.
15:16:59 I don't know if you have the pictures in your file.
15:17:02 I did bring them with me.
15:17:04 It was discussed at length.
15:17:06 But I think that's very important to note that Dr.
15:17:08 ZAKHARY back Dar neighbor has the same fence, 6-foot
15:17:17 fence, 6-foot columns.
15:17:19 There's some of the pictures.
15:17:23 >> Pictures from the first hearing?
15:17:26 >> Yes, she just provided them to me.
15:17:28 >>> This is another home on Adalia.
15:17:34 I don't know the address.
15:17:36 Maybe 26 Adalia.
15:17:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I read the transcript.
15:17:43 On page 17, if I recall, there's 26 Adalia.

15:17:49 26 Adalia, Zakhary from the 80s and 2 is a
15:17:56 commercial building.
15:17:57 I don't know if I'm right or wrong.
15:17:59 That's what I remember by reading the transcript.
15:18:01 And these two neighbors have been in dispute since
15:18:04 '05.
15:18:06 That's a shame.
15:18:06 >>> You know, it really is a shame.
15:18:08 I think that the reason that in my opinion reading the
15:18:11 transcript and looking at what happened, and I think
15:18:14 the reason that the board, in my opinion, denied this
15:18:16 request is because when you have neighbors come out
15:18:19 that say, you know, I'm concerned about the safety of
15:18:22 my children, which isn't really logical considering
15:18:25 there's four other houses in the neighborhood that
15:18:26 have the same fence, but it does eminent from this
15:18:30 boundary line dispute.
15:18:31 And apparently he's the new one in the neighborhood.
15:18:34 They have gotten, from what I have read -- and I have
15:18:37 not been involved in the underlying litigation, but
15:18:41 he's got a legitimate dispute and when people end up
15:18:44 in court they end up in court because both sides think

15:18:47 they are right.
15:18:47 Apparently one person had a survey that he thought was
15:18:50 right and the other had a survey that he thought was
15:18:52 right so there is a legitimate dispute between them
15:18:55 and that's for the courts to resolve.
15:18:56 But I don't know that that has anything to do, and
15:18:59 should not be a factor in him asking for the variance.
15:19:03 Now, I took the opportunity yesterday to drive around.
15:19:07 The fact of the matter is there's numerous houses and
15:19:10 they all have six-foot high fences.
15:19:14 Four on that street, and I can go -- 26 was approved
15:19:19 as a variance in 1989.
15:19:21 That's correct.
15:19:23 And 2 Adalia, while you are saying it is zoned
15:19:27 commercially and it is, if you are driving on Adalia,
15:19:29 when I drove out there yesterday, as you enter the
15:19:33 street, literally where the fence is located is in the
15:19:35 residential area on the street.
15:19:39 Right next to the residential home.
15:19:42 It's not on the corner or have anything to do with the
15:19:46 fact that it's zoned commercial, in my opinion, when
15:19:49 you drive on the fence where the 6-foot high -- it

15:19:54 probably is higher than six foot.
15:19:56 I think it's ten feet.
15:19:58 >> I'm sorry to interrupt, but again you need to stick
15:19:59 with what was in the record and any newly discovered
15:20:02 evidence, or new insight needs to be disregarded.
15:20:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That was not in the record.
15:20:13 >>> My sense of the discussion was -- I think in the
15:20:13 record it was discussed about the numerous other homes
15:20:17 and properties in the area had these six-foot columns
15:20:21 with six-foot gates.
15:20:24 That's why I was bringing it up.
15:20:28 Mr. Hafner presented, if you go to the transcript, he
15:20:32 was the only neighbor who appeared, and he expressed
15:20:35 some concerns.
15:20:36 Ultimately he said that he doesn't need that high of a
15:20:38 fence, but that's kind of what I got from it.
15:20:41 And the two substantial issues that looked to me that
15:20:44 he raised were light pollution, and planes flying at
15:20:50 night.
15:20:54 I can't imagine any scenario where planes will be
15:20:57 affected at night by some residential lights, not to
15:21:00 mention putting up Christmas lights.

15:21:06 Again I sense that the concerns for safety that Dr.
15:21:10 ZAKHARY has especially in light of the fact and
15:21:12 anybody can relate to if they are being videotaped on
15:21:15 their own property, that makes it unique to his
15:21:17 property.
15:21:17 They are being photographed and videotaped.
15:21:20 He does have two small children, eight and nine years
15:21:24 old that he brought up at the hearing, and his
15:21:27 adjoining neighbor has the exact fence, 2 Adalia has
15:21:31 the same fence.
15:21:32 I think 26.
15:21:34 There's three or four other properties just on Adalia
15:21:37 that have 6-foot high columns with 6-foot high fences.
15:21:42 We would respectfully request that the board grant the
15:21:45 variance for a 6-foot high fence.
15:21:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I will address council the public
15:21:56 hearing.
15:22:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone else to speak?
15:22:10 >>> Joe Hafner as referenced a few minutes ago.
15:22:15 To speak for myself.
15:22:16 I live on Adalia Avenue for 25 years.
15:22:21 Before that I lived another four or five years.

15:22:24 I'm also a licensed architect, and have many clients
15:22:28 over the past 35 years who request variances.
15:22:31 Sometimes you have good legitimate reasons, and grand
15:22:34 trees and things that cause variances.
15:22:37 But this is a case of appear vanity.
15:22:41 The gentleman started with a vacant lot and to come in
15:22:45 and claim any of the hardship categories, that you
15:22:49 have a hardship, when you are building on a vacant lot
15:22:51 it's really stretching the imagination.
15:22:54 Anything, he could have set the house back another
15:22:57 20-foot, put a 6-foot high fence at the 20-foot line
15:23:01 and we wouldn't be here today.
15:23:02 He could -- he's worried about people getting to the
15:23:05 sea wall.
15:23:06 He can put a fence between the side of the house and
15:23:07 the side property line wall and close off the backyard
15:23:10 that way.
15:23:11 The character of Adalia is a residential street.
15:23:16 There are two houses that have fences on them right
15:23:18 now.
15:23:19 The other is a condo, as you mentioned earlier.
15:23:22 The one wrought iron fence I think has been there

15:23:25 since the 80s.
15:23:26 The other one I'm not sure was legally permitted.
15:23:28 But if you want to compare the style of the fences, I
15:23:33 don't know if you have copies of what the proposed
15:23:35 fence looks like but it's completely different from
15:23:37 the style and character of what's there now, even if
15:23:40 you were to approve a fence.
15:23:42 This has 3-foot wide by 5-foot deep, with a light
15:23:49 fixture on top that appears to be two feet tall which
15:23:51 was the impetus for the remark about landing
15:23:54 airplanes.
15:23:55 You know, it's just inappropriate design for one
15:23:57 thing.
15:23:58 But the true issue here is that there are no hardships
15:24:03 on a vacant lot.
15:24:04 If you want to open that can of worms everybody in
15:24:06 Bayshore ought to come in here and build a 6-foot wall
15:24:09 and keep the pirates and the drunks out of their front
15:24:12 yard.
15:24:12 And the character of Davis Islands, like the houses
15:24:15 that are on the water that don't have 6-foot high
15:24:18 fences, everybody on that street has raised kids at

15:24:20 one time or another without having to put them, keep
15:24:23 them inside with a 6-foot high fence.
15:24:25 I don't know what his children are like.
15:24:27 But they will soon learn to climb a fence as fast as
15:24:31 they build it so it's not going to do any good to keep
15:24:34 his kids in.
15:24:34 And we don't really have that much crime on Adalia.
15:24:37 True once a year it would be nice if you didn't run
15:24:39 3,000 people down the street at 6:00 in the morning
15:24:43 but that happens.
15:24:45 But, you know, this petition has no merit.
15:24:48 And I urge you to uphold the variance board's
15:24:52 position.
15:24:52 Thank you.
15:24:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Rebuttal?
15:25:00 >>> I'm not sure that I have anything more to add
15:25:02 other than I would like -- I did bring them with me,
15:25:08 and they are pretty significant in the area.
15:25:11 I think that anybody -- if you look at construction
15:25:14 homes around the area they put up a 6-foot fence, to
15:25:18 keep people out, because they don't come around and
15:25:20 put a two-foot fence or four-feet fence up to keep

15:25:25 people out, because they can scale those easily.
15:25:28 But a six-foot fence is something that does keep
15:25:31 people out and is more practical and that's why a lot
15:25:33 of people on Davis islands do have them and they have
15:25:35 been granted in the past.
15:25:37 Thank you.
15:25:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Kert?
15:25:41 >>REBECCA KERT: Thank you.
15:25:42 I'm trying to remind you at this point you have the
15:25:44 opportunity to affirm the board's decision, remand the
15:25:48 matter for further proceedings or overturn the
15:25:51 proceedings.
15:25:52 I did want a clarification.
15:25:55 I think there was a misstatement of the code, that in
15:25:59 fact if the appellant moves the fence back 20 feet,
15:26:04 you can't have six feet in the front yard.
15:26:06 Just as a matter of law I wanted to make sure that was
15:26:08 clear.
15:26:09 And I did want to address two points.
15:26:13 She did point out that in the transcript, the maker of
15:26:18 the motion referred to the preponderance to the
15:26:24 contrary that he met his hardship.

15:26:27 I would also point out that the petitioner earlier
15:26:30 said that he did believe that for the hardship that
15:26:33 they have to consider had not been met and that's
15:26:36 really what the burden is.
15:26:37 This preponderance, if you haven't -- her point is
15:26:41 well taken.
15:26:42 The other thing that I would acknowledge is that the
15:26:44 maker of the motion said that he believed on the
15:26:49 motion that was adopted that criteria 3, 4, 5 and 6
15:26:52 had not been met, and there is no sixth criteria.
15:26:55 So you have your three options.
15:26:57 And I'm available if there are any questions.
15:27:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Saul-Sena?
15:27:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
15:27:04 >> Second.
15:27:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close.
15:27:06 (Motion carried)
15:27:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would move to support the action
15:27:11 taken by the board to deny this hardship based on the
15:27:16 criteria they provided.
15:27:18 And do I need to be -- I would specifically like to
15:27:23 look at page 17, line 5, the nature of the street is a

15:27:28 residential character, it's not a gated communities.
15:27:31 There's probably 100 homes on Adalia from one end to
15:27:35 the other and only a few of them have one.
15:27:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
15:27:40 I also add they haven't met the hardship criteria, 3,
15:27:45 4, 5, 6.
15:27:46 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor?
15:27:51 Opposed?
15:27:59 Okay.
15:28:00 We go to information from council members.
15:28:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have 73.
15:28:07 >>GWEN MILLER: That was it.
15:28:09 I thought we did 73.
15:28:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 73 was originally brought up but I
15:28:15 believe Mr. McLaren wanted to make an application or
15:28:19 motion for dismissal so I believe the chair had put
15:28:22 this back in the order.
15:28:23 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, right.
15:28:32 >>REBECCA KERT: Again, legal department, I sent a
15:28:35 memorandum to City Council yesterday advising that the
15:28:39 appellant in this case had not perfected the record.
15:28:41 There was additional documentation that needed to be

15:28:43 submitted so cot not go forward today.
15:28:45 Based upon that, City Council, it was my
15:28:49 recommendation that City Council continue this to the
15:28:51 next available hearing to allow the applicant, the
15:28:55 appellant, the opportunity to perfect the record.
15:28:59 Now please remember in this case this is a third party
15:29:02 appeal meaning they are appealing an issue which they
15:29:05 are not the property owner.
15:29:06 The property owner, the applicant in this case, has
15:29:10 requested to make a motion to dismiss based upon the
15:29:13 failure of the appellant to perfect the record, and I
15:29:15 think it's appropriate to hear from him at this time.
15:29:22 >> Thank you.
15:29:23 My name is Scott McLaren.
15:29:26 I represent the applicant Citivest and City National
15:29:29 Bank, also the land owner in this case.
15:29:31 My address is 101 East Kennedy Boulevard 33602.
15:29:37 I have been sworn.
15:29:38 This is the second request for continuance on this
15:29:41 particular matter.
15:29:42 Both of them for the applicant's benefit.
15:29:45 It's already continued from the April 2nd

15:29:48 calendar.
15:29:49 In lieu of a continuance, we hereby move to dismiss
15:29:51 this appeal due to the applicant's repeated
15:29:54 noncompliance with the city code concerning how the
15:29:59 appeal should proceed and the requirements of a
15:30:01 legitimate appeal.
15:30:04 I think some background is in order.
15:30:05 Snow, this appeal emanates from an original
15:30:08 application by my clients, in August of 2003.
15:30:15 That's not a misstatement.
15:30:16 August of 2003.
15:30:19 After denial, we had two years of litigation on this
15:30:21 matter.
15:30:23 And in December of 2005 the circuit court ruled that
15:30:26 the city's denial of our certificate of
15:30:29 appropriateness was unlawful, and that the city had
15:30:31 not followed its own ordinances in denying the
15:30:35 certificate of appropriateness.
15:30:37 The city moved for reconsideration, resulting in
15:30:39 additional delays.
15:30:41 That was denied in February of '06.
15:30:43 The city then appealed total second district Court of

15:30:45 Appeals in May of '07.
15:30:49 The court of appeals again ruled that the city's
15:30:52 denial of our certificate was unlawful, because the
15:30:55 city had not followed its own ordinances.
15:30:58 The city again, unwilling to accept the ruling, moved
15:31:02 for reconsideration, resulting in additional delays.
15:31:06 That motion was denied in August of '07.
15:31:10 Then without any basis in fact or law, the city
15:31:12 appealed again to the Florida Supreme Court on this
15:31:15 issue.
15:31:16 That appeal was flatly rejected.
15:31:18 The court everyone ruled that it didn't even have
15:31:21 jurisdiction to consider the appeal.
15:31:24 Anticipating another meritless motion for
15:31:26 reconsideration, the Supreme Court, the highest court
15:31:29 in the state, said it would not even consider such a
15:31:32 motion, and remanded it back to the city for
15:31:36 appropriate conduct consistent with the court's
15:31:39 rulings.
15:31:39 We are back in front of the ARC in February of this
15:31:43 year.
15:31:43 The ARC granted the certificate of appropriateness

15:31:46 with conditions.
15:31:47 That was appealed by Mr. DeFurio's client, the
15:31:51 Bayshore Royal.
15:31:54 On February 13th.
15:31:55 That's approximately 100 days ago.
15:31:58 Clearly -- I want to put this on the Elmo.
15:32:04 The city code contemplates a speedy appeal process.
15:32:11 Section 27-373 C-1 provides that City Council shall,
15:32:19 in mandatory language, set by motion a date for the
15:32:22 appeal hearing, which appeal shall be scheduled not 30
15:32:26 days and more than 75 days from the date of the
15:32:29 motion.
15:32:29 Again, today's hearing is approximately 100 days from
15:32:33 the date of appeal.
15:32:35 So we are already outside the time line set forth in
15:32:39 the code.
15:32:41 The requirements for the appeal are also very, very
15:32:44 clear.
15:32:46 Section 27-373 C-7 provides who should file the appeal
15:32:57 and what constitutes the record on appeal.
15:33:00 It says the appellant shall file a copy of the record,
15:33:03 with the office of city clerk not less than 10 working

15:33:07 days prayer to the date set for the appeal hearing.
15:33:11 And it describes what the record consists of.
15:33:15 In a confusion there.
15:33:17 Transcript, DVD or other similar type of media.
15:33:20 The application and accompanying documents, staff
15:33:23 reports, and recommendations, all exhibits and
15:33:27 documentary evidence, and the decision of the board of
15:33:29 the commission.
15:33:30 That's what constitutes the record.
15:33:32 Clear as a bell.
15:33:34 The hearing was set for April the 2nd.
15:33:37 The appellant failed to comply, with did not file its
15:33:42 record within ten days prayer to April 2nd, filed
15:33:46 only those portions of the record that the appellant
15:33:49 thought was favorable to its position, did not file
15:33:51 the portions of the record that it felt were favorable
15:33:53 to the applicant's position.
15:33:59 It had to have read the ordinance to know to file the
15:34:03 record, ten days prior to the hearing.
15:34:07 So they read it and they filed only those portions
15:34:10 that they believe were helpful to them.
15:34:12 So they didn't comply.

15:34:14 They came before this tribunal on April 2nd and
15:34:16 asked for a continuance.
15:34:19 As a matter of professional courtesy we agreed to it,
15:34:22 but again they failed to comply with the code.
15:34:25 Hearing was continued to today.
15:34:26 Again they failed to comply with the code.
15:34:28 This is particularly egregious for this reason. In
15:34:32 March of 2009, prior to the April hearing, I raised an
15:34:37 issue, specifically related to the record on this
15:34:41 appeal.
15:34:43 And I got a letter from Ms. Kert that was copied to
15:34:47 Mr. DeFurio who represents the appellant.
15:34:51 And as you can see, in no uncertain terms --
15:34:57 (Bell sounds)
15:34:59 Mr. Chairman, may I have a minute to finish up?
15:35:01 >> Okay, go ahead.
15:35:04 >>> And I need to show that Mr. DeFurio was copied on
15:35:07 this letter.
15:35:08 Again provides a specific description of what the
15:35:11 record shall consist of.
15:35:14 So Mr. DeFurio and his client are on notice
15:35:17 approximately two months ago of what they need to

15:35:19 file.
15:35:20 But again they didn't do it.
15:35:23 The appeal must be dismissed.
15:35:25 We respectfully submit that enough delays have already
15:35:27 occurred in this case.
15:35:30 Failure to dismiss this appeal, we believe, would be
15:35:33 yet another example consistent with the rulings of the
15:35:37 second district court of appeal and the circuit court
15:35:39 of this city's refusal to follow its own rules with
15:35:44 respect to this application and this applicant.
15:35:47 So we respectfully request that you dismiss this
15:35:50 appeal today.
15:35:52 Thank you.
15:36:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
15:36:02 >>> Good afternoon.
15:36:04 My name is Jim DeFurio.
15:36:05 I'm the attorney for the Bayshore royal condominium.
15:36:09 The Bayshore royal is an adjoining property, the
15:36:12 subject property.
15:36:12 My client is the applicant.
15:36:15 Supplementing some of the comments that have been made
15:36:18 so far, my client, the Bayshore Royal, was not a party

15:36:23 plaintiff, nor defendant in the litigation that was
15:36:27 described.
15:36:29 So whatever time periods might have been extended
15:36:33 during that litigation, were not by my client nor did
15:36:40 my client have anything to do with them.
15:36:45 When this matter came before ARC in February I
15:36:48 appeared on behalf of my client, and I made an
15:36:51 argument based upon the application of this Soho
15:36:55 overlay district on this subject parcel.
15:37:00 The ARC at that time provided a conditional
15:37:03 certificate of appropriateness, and I filed a timely
15:37:07 appeal and provided timely notice under the ordinance.
15:37:12 I then went to look at the record.
15:37:21 In identifying the record there were certain pages of
15:37:23 planned specifications I did not include.
15:37:26 Why?
15:37:28 Looking back, I was penny wise and pound foolish.
15:37:32 Those pages had nothing to do with the issue that I
15:37:36 was raising.
15:37:37 They had to do with, if I recall, they had to do with
15:37:42 minor exterior modifications to the building.
15:37:52 I thought nothing of it until Rebecca called me

15:37:54 yesterday and said, the record is incomplete, because
15:37:58 pages of the plans and specifications are missing.
15:38:14 I will address, if I could, and put on the screen here
15:38:17 the ordinance with regard to the record on appeal.
15:38:27 It's number 7 down here.
15:38:35 If you continue to the next page it includes one line.
15:38:38 If you read that ordinance, it says nothing about
15:38:41 dismissal in the event the record is incomplete on
15:38:44 appeal.
15:38:45 It says nothing.
15:38:47 The only dismissal sexual see is with regard to
15:38:53 misnotice, number of, directly above it.
15:38:56 This is not a misnotice case.
15:39:07 There is some analogous law that I think the council
15:39:10 should consider, because it is sitting here, in a
15:39:15 quasi-judicial appellate capacity.
15:39:18 And although the council is not bound by this, it is
15:39:20 rule 9.200 of the Florida rules of appellate
15:39:24 procedure.
15:39:26 States as follows:
15:39:29 If the court finds the record is incomplete it shall
15:39:40 direct -- strike that -- it shall direct a party to

15:39:43 supply the limited parts of the record.
15:39:46 No proceedings shall be determined because of an
15:39:48 incomplete record, until an opportunity to supplement
15:39:53 the record has been given.
15:39:55 That's what I'm asking for.
15:39:59 There are cases that have ruled upon this, indicating
15:40:01 that circuit courts of appeal -- pardon me, circuit
15:40:06 courts sitting in their appellate capacity who have
15:40:09 not allowed an appellate to supplement the record, did
15:40:14 not proceed properly, and allowed to supplement.
15:40:17 One of the cases is Contrera versus Florida
15:40:23 Unemployment Appeals Commission at 894 Southern 2nd
15:40:27 269 which is a First DCA, 2004.
15:40:30 This case has been continued once, with the consent of
15:40:40 Citivest.
15:40:44 Let's balance the equities here if we can.
15:40:46 If this is dismissed, this may have some bearing on
15:40:51 the ultimate hearing of this issue.
15:40:56 Council may not have another opportunity to look at
15:40:58 this issue of whether or not this Soho overlay applies
15:41:02 to this parcel.
15:41:06 If a continuance is granted the continuance will be

15:41:08 consistent with what it strongly suggested is required
15:41:13 by the Florida rules of appellate procedure, and allow
15:41:18 all parties to get to this issue under the laws.
15:41:33 The omissions in the record are frankly immaterial.
15:41:38 And I would ask at this time that a continuance be
15:41:40 granted in the shortest period of time as possible, at
15:41:45 least ten-plus days, because I have got to get that
15:41:48 supplemental record in within the ten-day window
15:41:51 before the hearing.
15:41:59 I respectfully request a continuance.
15:42:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like to ask our legal
15:42:06 department for some advice here.
15:42:07 I feel that between two legal individuals, or three
15:42:11 legal or four legal individuals who are very smart,
15:42:16 this started back in 2003, and I understand one party
15:42:20 was not in that 2003, the party became interested only
15:42:25 after the rezoning was granted.
15:42:27 Something happened between 2003 when I went into exile
15:42:32 and when I came back, something happened there.
15:42:35 It went to the courts.
15:42:37 It came back.
15:42:39 And I don't want to put the city in a position one way

15:42:43 or the other way.
15:42:44 And if I am going to go one day, I am going to tell
15:42:47 you this, I am going to make the other party state on
15:42:49 the record that they are going to hold the city -- and
15:42:58 moneys that I may get sued for so give me your
15:43:01 opinion.
15:43:02 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
15:43:03 I would like to make a couple points.
15:43:05 First of all, obviously, the city and the underlying
15:43:10 applicant here have a different understanding of the
15:43:14 underlying litigation, so the points that he made, we
15:43:19 obviously disagree with that you but I don't want to
15:43:22 belabor that.
15:43:23 I would note that the appellant in this case, although
15:43:26 he was not a party to the litigation for
15:43:27 clarification, he did file some Amicus briefs, I
15:43:30 believe.
15:43:31 As far as the request for the continuance, it is
15:43:31 clearly the appellant's burden to file the record.
15:43:36 That being said, it is not a jurisdictional issue when
15:43:41 the record is filed.
15:43:47 It is -- for jurisdictional issues like notice, you

15:43:50 allow a person one opportunity to correct that, and
15:43:53 it's not unreasonable for you to allow a short
15:43:55 continuance to allow that, for the appellant to have
15:44:00 had the opportunity to perfect the record.
15:44:01 I would also like to state that has been your
15:44:04 consistent practice in the past for people who have
15:44:07 not perfected the record one opportunity to do that.
15:44:12 To the factual matters, and I have been sworn, Mr.
15:44:16 Miranda.
15:44:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I saw you over there. You didn't
15:44:20 stand but you did raise your hand.
15:44:22 >> I usually don't testify, but I would like to get
15:44:22 these facts into the record. City Council, if you
15:44:24 will recall in December 20th of '07, this body did
15:44:28 grant the preliminary certificate of appropriateness,
15:44:31 the maximum heights, and all these other issues.
15:44:35 After that it was set to go back to the ARC for the
15:44:39 remaining issues to be reviewed against the design
15:44:41 guidelines.
15:44:41 That hearing was not scheduled by the applicant until
15:44:43 September of 2008.
15:44:45 And at that time the applicant reflected a continuance

15:44:49 to allow them to provide more detail to address some
15:44:52 of the questions and questions brought up by the ARC
15:44:57 board members and it was not brought back for a final
15:44:59 approval until February 4, 2009.
15:45:02 And I'm not trying to make an issue by I saw the other
15:45:06 dates and a it's important that it be acknowledged.
15:45:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What was the finality of February
15:45:13 '09?
15:45:15 >>REBECCA KERT: February 09 the ARC commission signed
15:45:24 a certificate of appropriateness, on appeal by the
15:45:26 appellant and scald to be heard by you.
15:45:28 >> Let me ask you another question if I may.
15:45:30 They brought up the Soho district.
15:45:32 What does that have to do with this zoning, in your
15:45:35 opinion?
15:45:36 >>REBECCA KERT: That's actually the issue on appeal.
15:45:39 And don't want to discuss it until we are actually on
15:45:43 appeal.
15:45:44 I have an opinion but that is what the appeal is.
15:45:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the issue we are dealing with now
15:45:52 is the continuance.
15:45:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We had something not dissimilar

15:45:57 earlier today which is what is council's usual policy
15:46:01 and council's usual policy is to allow somebody to
15:46:06 schedule, so two weeks seems like it would work:
15:46:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can, I would like to have Mr.
15:46:11 McLaren have the opportunity to have his closing
15:46:13 argument with regard to his request of council.
15:46:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'll give him the opportunity but I
15:46:19 thought the issue today was whether we want to
15:46:21 continue, not the appeal hearing.
15:46:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is scheduled which is our --
15:46:27 Let me speak.
15:46:28 The issue today is on the continuances, not on the
15:46:31 appeal.
15:46:32 We are debating right now whether to grant a
15:46:35 continuance, is that correct?
15:46:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's correct.
15:46:40 >>REBECCA KERT: You also have Mr. McLaren's I shall to
15:46:42 you dismiss.
15:46:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me come back to Councilwoman.
15:46:46 >>MARY MULHERN: That brings up another question for
15:46:49 me.
15:46:49 I just want to clarify because we have been dealing

15:46:51 with this development for quite awhile.
15:47:00 This is the first -- is this the first time that you,
15:47:05 Mr. DeFurio, that your appeal, your client, has come
15:47:09 to us?
15:47:10 >>> Yes, this is the first one.
15:47:14 Let me also state, because I want to be as upfront as
15:47:17 I possibly can here.
15:47:18 In the old litigation, which went up to the second
15:47:22 DCA, on behalf -- I filed an Amicus brief which means
15:47:28 friend of the court.
15:47:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We understand.
15:47:31 >>MARY MULHERN: I understand that.
15:47:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm not an attorney but I understand.
15:47:35 >>MARY MULHERN: I spent many, many hours watching tape
15:47:38 of this.
15:47:39 So then my next question relates to the response or
15:47:45 rebuttal or whatever.
15:47:49 Is that appropriate?
15:47:51 >> Yes.
15:47:56 Other questions?
15:47:57 You have five minutes.
15:47:58 >>> I won't take near that long.

15:48:01 I understand Mr. DeFurio's position that he was not a
15:48:04 litigant in the prior proceeding, but on behalf of his
15:48:09 client, I recall him being at several, if not all, of
15:48:13 the hearings on this matter, speaking in protest to
15:48:16 this matter.
15:48:17 So he was a participant.
15:48:19 No question about it.
15:48:20 In connection with the Amicus brief that he indicated
15:48:23 that he did file, that Amicus brief contained -- it
15:48:30 was presented to the second district court of appeal,
15:48:32 and it contained precisely the same argument that he
15:48:36 is presenting to this council today, or wants to
15:48:39 present in this appeal.
15:48:40 And that precise argument in the Court of Appeals
15:48:45 decision, they said that they scoured the record and
15:48:49 considered everything filed by anyone in this case,
15:48:53 and they still rule that the city erred when it
15:48:59 applied the ordinances as it did failing to grant the
15:49:03 certificate of appropriateness.
15:49:07 The Florida Rules of Appellate Procedure cited by Mr.
15:49:11 DeFurio, those apply to proceedings from this
15:49:17 tribunal.

15:49:18 They do not apply to proceedings in this tribunal.
15:49:20 In fact, in the city code, the city has specifically
15:49:24 adopted the rules and regulations for this tribunal.
15:49:28 Those were violated by the appellant.
15:49:32 Now, I understand what Mr. DeFurio is saying.
15:49:35 But this is again the second time he's been before
15:49:40 this tribunal.
15:49:41 The second time he's had the ten-day opportunity to
15:49:43 file.
15:49:45 In addition to that, the March 24th letter that I
15:49:49 provided to you, that Mr. DeFurio received, stating
15:49:54 specifically what the record is, I just don't
15:49:58 understand how, if you are trying to follow the rules,
15:50:02 you don't -- when you have 60 days between that letter
15:50:06 being sent and this hearing occurring, how you cannot
15:50:09 get the record filed.
15:50:13 He's had ample opportunity.
15:50:15 And all this is going to do is again delay this
15:50:18 proceeding.
15:50:20 We respectfully request that the appeal be denied.
15:50:23 Thank you.
15:50:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to hear -- yes.

15:50:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What's before us today is whether
15:50:34 we reschedule this for two weeks.
15:50:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, two things I hear.
15:50:37 One is, as I understand from legal, is that we need to
15:50:40 deal with the motion to dismiss.
15:50:42 So you have to deal with that first.
15:50:43 Am I not correct?
15:50:44 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes, I would ask you to deal with the
15:50:47 motion to dismiss and then consider the request to
15:50:50 reschedule.
15:50:50 The only thing that I would note is that it's ten work
15:50:53 withing days.
15:50:53 So two weeks would not be sufficient time.
15:50:55 It would have to be at a different date because I have
15:51:00 to have the information submitted ten working days,
15:51:02 and that would have been yesterday.
15:51:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena, are you
15:51:12 finished?
15:51:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, I think I understood that
15:51:16 first -- our attorney's first instruction being to
15:51:19 deal with the issue of dismissing.
15:51:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.

15:51:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And --
15:51:31 >>MARY MULHERN: I just have a question.
15:51:32 I don't remember ever being asked to vote -- at least
15:51:36 I have not been asked I think to vote on a motion to
15:51:39 dismiss.
15:51:39 Is that something that has happened on council before?
15:51:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, not formally.
15:51:47 But let me share with you as an analogy what appears
15:51:51 that Mr. McLaren is doing is, in response to the
15:51:58 city's determination that it requires a continuance,
15:52:02 Mr. DeFurio appears to be requesting that continuance
15:52:05 to allow him to amend the record.
15:52:07 Mr. McLaren is objecting to that request for the
15:52:09 continuance, and in the alternative he's saying that
15:52:13 it's appropriate in his argument to dismiss and that's
15:52:16 what his motion would be.
15:52:17 So basically, no, you have never dealt with that
15:52:22 formally in this forum before.
15:52:25 You have dismissed previously when there have been
15:52:28 misnotices on more than one occasion as per the code.
15:52:33 >>MARY MULHERN: When we are regularly asked to allow
15:52:36 continuances, many, many, every week, and normally

15:52:42 it's a request, and you ask if someone would like --
15:52:47 is willing to accept the continuance.
15:52:50 And then we vote on that.
15:52:51 It's never become something that sounds like a legal
15:52:56 judgment on our part.
15:52:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's still a proceeding even though it
15:53:04 may not sound like it.
15:53:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Everything is a proceeding, so it's a
15:53:08 legal precedent, so somebody that doesn't want a
15:53:11 continuance they can ask for a motion to dismiss?
15:53:13 I'm questioning this whole procedure.
15:53:19 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: What we have here is a situation
15:53:20 where you are, unlike many other things that you do,
15:53:23 you are sitting as an appellate body.
15:53:28 You are not special use.
15:53:30 Somewhat narrow area.
15:53:32 And we have rules related to how that appellate
15:53:35 proceeding comes before you, and one of those is the
15:53:38 issue of this record.
15:53:40 We don't have a specific rule as to what happens if
15:53:44 the record is not properly prepared.
15:53:46 We have a specific rule as was indicated, and what

15:53:50 happens if there's a misnotice.
15:53:53 So what you are being asked to today is choose between
15:53:56 either dismissing the appeal, because it is not timely
15:54:02 or appropriately brought before you under those rules
15:54:04 of procedure.
15:54:05 So it's a different way of looking at the issue.
15:54:08 >>MARY MULHERN: I understand all that.
15:54:13 And I'm talking about in these appeal situations.
15:54:15 We have heard many, many, many appeals.
15:54:17 And I have never heard this before, and I don't know,
15:54:21 Charlie, if you have.
15:54:22 But I question us being put in this position.
15:54:29 And I'm going to vote on it.
15:54:31 But I don't understand why -- I know it's
15:54:35 quasi-judicial.
15:54:36 But we also have certain ways that we operate in these
15:54:42 appeals.
15:54:42 And this is a new one on me.
15:54:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In an effort to move ahead, I would
15:54:50 like to move that we dismiss the request by Mr.
15:54:57 McLaren --
15:54:58 >> Deny.

15:54:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Deny the request by Mr. McLaren to
15:55:01 dismiss because I think we should get the information
15:55:04 and hear it.
15:55:08 Is that adequate?
15:55:11 >> We have a motion on the floor.
15:55:12 The motion made by Councilwoman Saul-Sena that we deny
15:55:15 the request.
15:55:19 And second by Councilwoman Mulhern.
15:55:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
15:55:27 In light of the facts, the city is not going to be a
15:55:33 winner here in either case.
15:55:35 One case may appeal this to a higher venue, if
15:55:39 whatever happens, not to their liking and they are
15:55:42 going to say, guess what, I showed definite proof that
15:55:48 the record was flawed.
15:55:49 Now, if it goes the other way, then the other is going
15:55:52 to say, guess what, I presented my evidence, and I
15:55:55 have asked for a continuance, and because they didn't
15:55:58 give it to me, I wasn't able to present my case.
15:56:03 So therefore we stand today, the city cannot win
15:56:07 either way.
15:56:09 We are caught between what I call --

15:56:14 (Speaking Spanish) a rock and a hard place.
15:56:17 So what I'm saying is -- the chairman comes up with
15:56:26 these sayings that really wake me up.
15:56:28 What I'm saying only time will tell.
15:56:30 What I do foresee into the future?
15:56:33 Another legal battle between entity one and entity
15:56:37 two, or is it entity one and entity two?
15:56:41 And let's face the facts.
15:56:42 It's not about anything else other than the view
15:56:45 corridor.
15:56:48 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
15:56:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, there's a motion on the floor.
15:56:51 All in favor of the motion signify by saying Aye.
15:56:54 Opposes?
15:57:00 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and Miller
15:57:03 being absent at vote.
15:57:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I believe we have a City Council
15:57:07 meeting scheduled for the last week in June.
15:57:09 What is that date?
15:57:10 >> 25th.
15:57:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
15:57:16 I move that we hear this case on June 25th at

15:57:20 1:30.
15:57:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
15:57:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:57:26 Motion for June 25th made by Councilwoman
15:57:30 Saul-Sena.
15:57:30 Is there -- second by councilman Miranda.
15:57:34 Yes, sir.
15:57:34 >> Considering the posture that we are in, the property
15:57:40 owner in this case has asked us to consider the
15:57:43 18th which you all will be here on a workshop day,
15:57:46 it's not your regular scheduled council meeting, it's
15:57:50 up to council's purview, but I did want to communicate
15:57:53 that request.
15:57:54 That would be, I believe, the soonest time that the
15:57:56 council convenes.
15:57:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, two things.
15:58:01 One is you have a night meeting at night and we said
15:58:03 we would not have an afternoon meeting given that we
15:58:05 have a night meeting.
15:58:06 Secondly, I will be out of town.
15:58:09 I will not be here. You certainly have that right to
15:58:10 do that.

15:58:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: They are fine with the 25th.
15:58:16 I just want to communicate that for your
15:58:18 consideration.
15:58:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:58:21 There's a motion and second.
15:58:22 All in favor of the motion signify by saying Aye.
15:58:25 Opposes?
15:58:26 Okay.
15:58:29 June 25th.
15:58:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: At 1:30.
15:58:32 >>THE CLERK: The motion passed with Miller and
15:58:37 Dingfelder being absent at vote.
15:58:42 >>> Question of council, please?
15:58:43 I would appreciate it if the city attorney could
15:58:46 communicate with my office, and copy to opposing
15:58:50 council by e-mail as to what is missing are from the
15:58:52 record so there's no dispute anymore as to what
15:58:55 constitutes the record.
15:58:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me ask one question.
15:59:00 I'm not opposed to that.
15:59:01 But I don't want to put the city -- the information or
15:59:08 assimilation of facts and if they make a mistake I

15:59:11 don't want the city to be responsible.
15:59:13 I'll let legal answer that.
15:59:15 >>REBECCA KERT: Mr. Miranda, I hear what you are
15:59:18 saying and I certainly share that concern.
15:59:20 I don't want to make the city liable.
15:59:22 But I certainly agree to work with the appellants for
15:59:25 everyone's sake and all parties including that we have
15:59:29 a record.
15:59:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But I want to make it abundantly
15:59:34 clear, if we are going to hear this case whether you
15:59:36 have all the information or not.
15:59:38 I'm really tired of it, okay?
15:59:41 Okay.
15:59:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a ton of new business.
15:59:46 I'll talk really fast.
15:59:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We got new business.
15:59:49 I would like to ask that Mr. Jim Crew appear before
15:59:52 council, please.
15:59:53 Jim Crew.
15:59:55 Have him appear before council.
15:59:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: He's in the clerk's office.
15:59:59 I believe he's hearing what you are saying.

16:00:01 Before you do new business I believe you have item 65.
16:00:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 65.
16:00:06 Yes.
16:00:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have more rules than the
16:00:34 Constitution.
16:00:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Crew?
16:00:38 >>> Jim Crew with city clerk's office.
16:00:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, sir.
16:00:42 Council has been advised that today is your birthday.
16:00:46 And we want to say happy birthday to you.
16:00:50 >>> Jim Crew: Thank you.
16:00:52 >> You are a very good and outstanding employee, do a
16:00:55 good job even in the invocation and hope you have a
16:00:58 pleasant birthday today and a happy one.
16:01:03 >>MARY MULHERN: That was an awesome invocation today.
16:01:11 >>> You are going to pay for my roof, you say?
16:01:14 Is that a motion?
16:01:15 [ Laughter ]
16:01:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I provided awe copy of the
16:01:18 backup material.
16:01:19 It's the same item as what you have before you, item
16:01:21 65.

16:01:22 As a result of input that was given at the strategic
16:01:26 planning meeting on how to address the concerns with
16:01:29 regard to two rules that council raised.
16:01:32 One was about the appointment of members of the chair,
16:01:38 and members of the committee by the chair.
16:01:42 I added the words, after receiving appointment
16:01:44 preferences from City Council members, I believe that
16:01:46 was a concern, since there's no question that council
16:01:49 members have the opportunity to communicate with the
16:01:51 chair prior to he or she making the appointment.
16:01:54 Rule 4 is amending rule 4-C which has come up, quite
16:01:59 frankly, too many times recently, and I believe this
16:02:02 is to address that concern.
16:02:03 It states very clearly, the new language, if a motion
16:02:07 to approve or deny an ordinance or resolution fails to
16:02:10 receive at least four votes, it shall automatically be
16:02:13 brought back before the council at the next regular
16:02:16 meeting.
16:02:16 That encompasses rule D as well.
16:02:18 So I struck that entirely.
16:02:20 And basically, it doesn't fall under a motion to
16:02:23 approve or deny, and it doesn't involve a resolution,

16:02:28 then "L" applies, Robert's Rules of Order governs
16:02:32 that, which means a 3-3 Tay means the motion failed
16:02:36 outside.
16:02:37 That if council wishes to amend per council's rules,
16:02:40 it requires the title be read today.
16:02:41 It will come back in two weeks, be read again and then
16:02:44 that will be the adoption.
16:02:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
16:02:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, sir.
16:02:48 On the second part, if there's a zoning, let's say,
16:02:53 and we only have six members, do you wish to proceed
16:03:03 or do you wish to wait for a full council?
16:03:05 And they say, we wish to proceed.
16:03:07 And there is a 3-3 vote.
16:03:10 That means that in that case it failed because there's
16:03:15 in a prevailing side.
16:03:18 They have to --
16:03:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If it's a rezoning, the motion would
16:03:25 be to approve or deny the ordinance in front of you.
16:03:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But the point is if it's a tie:
16:03:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry.
16:03:33 If it's a rezoning, rezoning is done by ordinance.

16:03:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
16:03:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If it's a 3-3 it's under unfinished
16:03:45 business.
16:03:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's knot what he said:
16:03:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, say it again.
16:03:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I already said it.
16:03:51 I just feel that you can spin this either way, 3-3 to
16:03:56 me is a dead vote.
16:03:58 It died:
16:04:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Oh, I'm sorry.
16:04:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: How can something that's dead come
16:04:03 back?
16:04:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So you are saying if it should
16:04:09 include motion, deny or continue an ordinance.
16:04:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Right.
16:04:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I see.
16:04:14 That is true.
16:04:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That is true because if you don't it
16:04:18 could go in an endless loop.
16:04:22 >>MARY MULHERN: I thought you were saying if the
16:04:24 applicant, or whoever, agreed to have the case heard
16:04:30 in front of less than the full council, then they

16:04:36 should be accepting that there's not a full council,
16:04:38 and if N that case I agree with you.
16:04:40 I don't know if we --
16:04:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This council does it, fine.
16:04:48 If T next council may want to change it.
16:04:50 So we are going to go roundabout.
16:04:53 That's how I see it.
16:04:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Unless we add the words "or continue
16:05:00 it is that correct?
16:05:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Even if you add those words the
16:05:04 future councils can change that word:
16:05:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's true.
16:05:08 But I think that might solve your concern.
16:05:10 Because I think you do raise a good point.
16:05:11 If somebody makes a motion to continue, and it dies --
16:05:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No, it's tied, 3-3.
16:05:20 We don't go into extra innings.
16:05:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It doesn't come back again.
16:05:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The motion to continue would not.
16:05:26 The hearing would be to either take up the approval or
16:05:29 denial.
16:05:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's all I'm saying.

16:05:42 >> If council wishes to hold this for two weeks and
16:05:45 let me talk with you individually, I can do this as
16:05:47 well I.don't want this to move forward unless council
16:05:49 is satisfied.
16:05:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My issue is, I don't want everything
16:05:58 to stay alive forever.
16:06:00 If it dies, 3-3, it comes back and I wasn't accustomed
16:06:04 to that.
16:06:05 I'm accustomed to 3-3 it's dead, did it not get
16:06:09 majority vote:
16:06:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: But I believe if Mr. Miranda's
16:06:13 concern is right, if someone asks for a full council
16:06:16 and the motion to continue it died, then that --
16:06:20 >> It doesn't come back.
16:06:21 Right.
16:06:22 That's what he's saying.
16:06:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move that we adopt these
16:06:31 resolutions.
16:06:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is a perfect example.
16:06:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Then I move that we put it under
16:06:45 unfinished and under staff reports in two weeks.
16:06:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: As the last item?

16:06:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: As the last item.
16:06:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Because now this is not going to
16:06:56 pass, it's 3-2 and it still dies.
16:07:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How long have we been dealing with
16:07:11 this now?
16:07:12 A month? Two months?
16:07:16 So it's going to come back under staff reports.
16:07:18 Okay.
16:07:20 Is that a motion?
16:07:21 It's moved and seconded.
16:07:22 Moved by Councilwoman Saul-Sena, seconded by
16:07:24 councilman Miranda.
16:07:26 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
16:07:28 Okay.
16:07:29 Very good.
16:07:30 Under new business, councilman Caetano.
16:07:35 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
16:07:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The Tampa Bay Derby Dogs would like
16:07:39 to come on Thursday, May 28 to receive the
16:07:42 commendation that we already approved at 9 a.m.
16:07:47 >> Are they allowed to skate?
16:07:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have a non-skating chambers.

16:07:50 Thursday, May 28th.
16:07:52 Next Thursday at 9 a.m.
16:07:55 So moved.
16:07:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
16:08:04 >> Moved and seconded.
16:08:05 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
16:08:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Number 2.
16:08:11 Commendation.
16:08:12 This is a request of John Dingfelder that said we are
16:08:15 going to give Dr. Jack Fernandez an award for the Ybor
16:08:18 City Museum Society honoring people.
16:08:21 And other people are getting awards.
16:08:23 We want to give awards to everyone.
16:08:25 So Richard and Casey Gonzmart will receive the Ybor
16:08:31 Award and Joe will receive the Adel Gonzmart Award. I
16:08:34 move all these people get awards on that day which is
16:08:36 June 9th, Sunday brunch.
16:08:43 To be presented by John.
16:08:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
16:08:46 (Motion carried).
16:08:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Number 3.
16:08:50 That we schedule a staff report in two weeks to

16:08:54 discuss the designation of Twiggs Street as an FDOT
16:08:59 road versus Kennedy Boulevard to make Kennedy more
16:09:01 pedestrian friendly.
16:09:02 There's been a lot of work done on this, and the
16:09:05 neighborhood --
16:09:07 Second?
16:09:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
16:09:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
16:09:11 (Motion carried).
16:09:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Last, we also had a workshop on
16:09:18 making site plans, elevations, and Rebecca Kert wrote
16:09:24 down that I should ask legal to research this and come
16:09:28 back to us, so when we think we are approving
16:09:33 something do we really get what we think we are
16:09:35 getting.
16:09:35 So to require that building elevations submitted as
16:09:38 part of the site plan zoning district are accurate
16:09:41 representations of what will be built.
16:09:44 And we receive that back under staff report in a
16:09:48 month.
16:09:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like to discuss.
16:09:54 That I am not opposed to it but I would like to have a

16:09:56 debate with the legal department and with staff to
16:10:00 make sure what we are asking, because I understand
16:10:02 what Ms. Saul-Sena is saying, but it's just not that
16:10:05 simple.
16:10:06 The site plans and these elevations and so forth have
16:10:10 a way of changing and I want to make sure that all
16:10:13 parties understand what the changes are.
16:10:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's exactly what the legal
16:10:20 department says, it's harder than you think.
16:10:22 But I think that what is dependable and what isn't.
16:10:30 So I'm asking legal to come back to us and explain
16:10:35 what our current reality is.
16:10:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not opposed to that.
16:10:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is some that something we can do in a
16:10:43 workshop?
16:10:44 Do we need that much time?
16:10:46 Can't we do in the five minutes?
16:10:47 If you can't do in the five minutes, a workshop or
16:10:49 something.
16:10:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think we need a workshop on that.
16:10:54 We have a workshop coming up -- when is our June
16:10:57 workshop?

16:10:59 >> June 18th.
16:11:00 9 a.m. is the commendation of Officer of the Month.
16:11:04 Immediately after that is the budget workshop.
16:11:07 11 a.m. it's to talk about development -- transfer
16:11:10 development rights.
16:11:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This would be kind of appropriate
16:11:13 for that.
16:11:14 Or maybe July.
16:11:15 Do we have a workshop in July?
16:11:19 Then July workshop.
16:11:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: July, as a matter of fact, council,
16:11:23 you have a pretty full workshop.
16:11:24 As a matter of fact, you haven't set a date.
16:11:27 I am going to ask council to consider, if you have the
16:11:30 calendar in front of you -- actually, the 23rd in
16:11:36 July because of council's first two weeks being
16:11:39 council summer recess, the July calendar was
16:11:42 reordered.
16:11:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
16:11:45 I now fortunately have this in front of me so I can be
16:11:49 specific.
16:11:49 I will suggest August 27th at 9:30.

16:11:55 >> Second.
16:11:56 (Motion carried)
16:11:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I'm sorry, could you please
16:12:00 go back to the July workshop, the dates?
16:12:05 On the 23rd.
16:12:06 If you see there, it says no time was set for the
16:12:08 workshop to discuss the appeals process.
16:12:14 Council, if you would set a time for that, perhaps
16:12:16 11:00 if you wish.
16:12:17 >> Move to make the appeal process discussion on July
16:12:22 23rd at 11:00.
16:12:23 >> Second.
16:12:24 (Motion carried)
16:12:27 >> Two other quick things.
16:12:30 The good news is it's raining.
16:12:31 The bad news is we have historic structures that are
16:12:34 getting rained in.
16:12:36 I would like a report back in 30 days on the status of
16:12:41 the following historic structures.
16:12:44 They are getting rained in.
16:12:46 Italian club.
16:12:49 Post dental cigar building.

16:12:51 The Kress Building.
16:12:53 The macaroni building.
16:12:55 And the cigar factory in Palmetto Beach.
16:12:58 Not the one on 22nd street.
16:13:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
16:13:02 >>MARY MULHERN: Are you sure you want to wait a month?
16:13:05 It's going to be raining --
16:13:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In a, two weeks.
16:13:09 Your right.
16:13:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But what can you do about it?
16:13:13 A motion to come back in two weeks.
16:13:15 Okay.
16:13:15 Moved and seconded.
16:13:16 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
16:13:18 Opposes?
16:13:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Lastly just for your thoughts I
16:13:22 passed out an advertisement for a house with a 15-car
16:13:26 garage.
16:13:27 And it's regular size lot.
16:13:30 I want to share this with you so you can think about
16:13:33 the kind of development that's going on.
16:13:34 Maybe in the future we'll get some feedback on what we

16:13:37 want.
16:13:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
16:13:39 Is that the last one?
16:13:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's the last one.
16:13:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Actually, I would like to submit
16:13:49 the ad for the 15 car garage and get feedback from our
16:13:52 zoning department in 30 days whether --
16:13:55 Mr. Wallace's house?
16:13:57 >>
16:13:57 >> in a, a 6.3 million house.
16:13:59 >> Is that Derrick Jeter?
16:14:02 >> No, you won't believe what's being built.
16:14:04 This is an --
16:14:06 >> 6.3 million.
16:14:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The question is, do we have any
16:14:10 current rules that preclude this scale of development?
16:14:14 And do we have any rules that preclude architectural
16:14:17 features going well beyond our 35-foot limit?
16:14:22 I don't believe we have any rules.
16:14:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
16:14:33 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
16:14:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And you are going to giver that to

16:14:38 the clerk's office?
16:14:40 >> Councilman Miranda.
16:14:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am going I have about 14 of them
16:14:48 but I am going hold 13.
16:14:50 There's a light pole that used to be over by us, and
16:14:55 that was removed.
16:14:56 It's extremely dark there at night.
16:14:58 If they could somehow replace that light to make it
16:15:01 safer for the people.
16:15:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
16:15:04 (Motion carried).
16:15:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So then --
16:15:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: A commendation be made.
16:15:14 I'm only joking.
16:15:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
16:15:20 >>MARY MULHERN: I just have the one item that you
16:15:23 brought up earlier, although could you make it
16:15:26 yourself if you want.
16:15:27 But I wrote some stuff down if you want.
16:15:31 I'd like to ask that the administration appear and
16:15:36 provide -- appear and provide a written staff report,
16:15:41 which itemizes for the fiscal year 2008, which

16:15:48 concluded already.
16:15:51 We are in 2009 right now.
16:15:53 So fiscal year 2008.
16:15:56 The cost of privatization contracts, by contract and
16:16:04 by department, so itemized by that.
16:16:07 And also itemized savings from layoffs by department
16:16:19 salaries.
16:16:22 And this would include a park department, waste
16:16:26 management, clean cities, I believe construction
16:16:32 services, and any other department which has contracts
16:16:36 for any labor, and any layoff, which were initiated in
16:16:41 fiscal year 2008.
16:16:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A question on the terminology.
16:16:47 When you say privatization, because I mean --
16:16:52 >>MARY MULHERN: I just figure contracts which include
16:16:56 labor.
16:17:00 I don't know what else to call it.
16:17:02 We don't have to know about every contract, but if
16:17:04 it's a contract that's giving employment.
16:17:08 So, yeah, you're right.
16:17:10 So contracts that include labor, instead of saying
16:17:14 privatization.

16:17:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Outsourcing?
16:17:19 >>MARY MULHERN: Outsourcing, is that better?
16:17:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Outsourcing.
16:17:23 Privatization, outsourcing, labor, temporary --
16:17:31 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, the temporary thing -- I think
16:17:37 if you say outsourcing of labor.
16:17:39 That would work.
16:17:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And suggest FY 08?
16:17:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
16:17:44 I figure we'll be lucky to get that.
16:17:46 I was going to say '08.
16:17:49 We are not done with '09.
16:17:50 >> Well, you are almost done.
16:17:53 We are almost through with '09.
16:17:56 >> I think it will -- do you think we should do up to
16:17:59 the present?
16:18:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Let me just raise an issue.
16:18:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think do you.
16:18:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think you do fiscal year '08-09.
16:18:09 >> FY '08 and '09.
16:18:14 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, and FY '09 year to date.
16:18:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's a motion.

16:18:19 Second?
16:18:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second but clarifying, the second
16:18:23 year of '08?
16:18:26 >> Up to '09.
16:18:29 >>MARY MULHERN: Wait, is that how it works?
16:18:31 We are in '09:
16:18:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: October 1st of '08.
16:18:36 >>MARY MULHERN: We are currently in fiscal year '09
16:18:40 which was October '08 through --
16:18:44 September 30, '09, yes.
16:18:47 Okay.
16:18:48 And --
16:18:49 >>MARY MULHERN: That's only the half.
16:18:50 So should I -- I said 2008, which is '07-08?
16:18:58 That's what I thought.
16:18:58 Okay.
16:19:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And we want this back in 30 days?
16:19:04 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, I said July 16th.
16:19:06 It's a regular council meeting and it seems like
16:19:09 enough time, and it's before we have to approve the
16:19:11 budget.
16:19:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.

16:19:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this.
16:19:15 I recall the conversation that we had with the
16:19:17 administration.
16:19:18 They were looking at a $54 million shortfall, for '09.
16:19:29 They have addressed 12 million if they work out the
16:19:34 agreements.
16:19:38 That means there's 42 million somewhere and they are
16:19:44 being cut.
16:19:45 That would include work that should be done in the
16:19:49 City of Tampa that is necessary, roadwork, things of
16:19:53 that nature.
16:19:55 And along with that decrease, you are going to have a
16:19:58 decrease in employment.
16:20:00 When you look at areas that we have seen a drop-off of
16:20:06 revenue stream, we are not immune to anything that has
16:20:10 not gone on in this country.
16:20:12 I don't want to see anyone laid off.
16:20:14 I'm going to tell you what I think.
16:20:16 And I think that this is not going to gets better
16:20:19 before it gets worse.
16:20:21 And that's just my opinion.
16:20:22 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to the say I'm not arguing

16:20:25 with that, not at all.
16:20:27 What I'm saying is I want to make sure as we are
16:20:29 laying people off and then replacing them with private
16:20:32 contractors, ones you pointed out today, we weren't
16:20:36 exactly saving money.
16:20:37 So we want to see some accountability on that.
16:20:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's a motion and a second.
16:20:42 It comes back July 16th.
16:20:46 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
16:20:48 Opposes?
16:20:50 Okay.
16:20:50 I have two items here.
16:20:54 One, I would like to request a letter of
16:20:56 congratulations from the chairman of City Council to
16:20:58 the 2009 Gourmet Gents Culinary Gents.
16:21:06 They have one every year.
16:21:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Motion and second.
16:21:12 Any discussion?
16:21:13 (Motion carried)
16:21:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I have a letter of support for the
16:21:17 Tampa Housing Authority has been nominated to receive
16:21:19 outstanding agency award by the Florida Association of

16:21:21 Housing and Redevelopment officials so they are
16:21:25 requesting a letter of support from City Council.
16:21:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Motion and second.
16:21:29 Any discussion?
16:21:30 All in favor?
16:21:31 (Motion carried)
16:21:32 >>MARY MULHERN: I am going add one more thing because
16:21:35 you asked me about this.
16:21:39 The remainder that -- what are they called?
16:21:41 The Council of Tampa Bay Council of World Affairs and
16:21:45 International Trade the holding a workshop on Friday,
16:21:54 the 29th, so that's a week from tomorrow.
16:21:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Where is it going to be again?
16:22:03 At what time?
16:22:03 >>MARY MULHERN: It is at 11:30 to 12, 12 to 1:30 lunch
16:22:09 and program.
16:22:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So that will be at the University Club
16:22:11 for the whole discussion on trade to Cuba.
16:22:16 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
16:22:17 One of them.
16:22:17 This is one of them.
16:22:22 In the race to Cuba, that one I think tried to preempt

16:22:25 to get ahead of this one which is called Cuba on Their
16:22:29 Minds, a Dialogue on U.S.-Cuba Relations and the
16:22:34 embargo -- U.S. Cuba Relations.
16:22:39 That is at the Italian club on June 27th.
16:22:43 And I don't know what time that is, but it's a
16:22:48 Saturday, I think, and I think it starts in the
16:22:50 morning.
16:22:50 But I'll keep you posted on that.
16:22:54 This one has representative Bill Delahunt from
16:22:59 Massachusetts to lift travel restrictions for all
16:23:03 Americans, Wayne Smith of the center for international
16:23:05 policy in Washington is a Cuba expert, and Alfredo
16:23:10 Duran, a Cuban-born Miami attorney and Bay of Pigs
16:23:14 participant.
16:23:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you for that information.
16:23:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, but please allow me to
16:23:21 remind council that those are not noticed public
16:23:26 hearings.
16:23:26 Council members can attend, more than one council
16:23:30 member can attend, and I suspect that's why you are
16:23:33 suggesting --
16:23:36 >>MARY MULHERN: If it's been in the newspaper

16:23:37 and advertised, is it not noticed?
16:23:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No. A noticed public hearing of City
16:23:41 Council requires that it has to be -- that City
16:23:45 Council members will be present, it has to be in a
16:23:47 forum that people who otherwise would know about City
16:23:49 Council meeting would know about it, but minutes would
16:23:51 have to be taken.
16:23:51 My point is, yes, you can attend.
16:23:53 My suggestion is that even one council member can say
16:23:59 something, but the Attorney General's opinion states
16:24:02 that do you not respond, do you not engage in
16:24:04 dialogue, upon anything that is likely, and in this
16:24:08 case it's already come in terms of a formal resolution
16:24:11 to come before council.
16:24:12 I invite you to be able to attend these things but
16:24:14 remain conscious of the public meetings law.
16:24:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
16:24:18 Motion to receive and file?
16:24:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
16:24:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
16:24:22 Anyone from the public wishing to address council?
16:24:24 Seeing none, we stand adjourned.

16:24:26 (City Council meeting adjourned)

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