TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, November 5, 2009
9:00 a.m. Session
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>>THOMAS SCOTT: City Council will now come to order
and the chair will yield to the honorable Mary
09:02:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:02:28 This morning we have the honor of our wonderful city
09:02:30 council clerk, Shirley Foxx-Knowles, will do the
09:02:34 invocation for us.
09:02:35 Please stand for the invocation and remain standing
09:02:38 for the pledge.
09:02:38 >> Good morning, council.
09:02:42 O Lord our Lord, how excellent is Thy name in all the
09:02:47 I will praise Thee, O Lord, with all my heart.
09:02:51 Gracious father, thank you once again for this
09:02:53 beautiful fall morning at this place and this time.
09:02:58 Bless our council members and make them instruments of
09:03:00 your will with.
09:03:02 Lead them as they make decisions that affect the lives
09:03:05 of the citizens of our fair city.
09:03:08 Guide them so that they do that which is acceptable in
09:03:11 your sight and is uplifting for the residents of our
09:03:17 Lead them in the right way.
09:03:19 Father, we thank you for your grace and your mercy.
09:03:23 Thank you for how you blessed us of the you have been
09:03:25 so good to us, and we are truly grateful.
09:03:28 Please continues to protect our citizens here in
09:03:32 Tampa, and provide your protections to those on the
09:03:36 front line working hard to keep us safe.
09:03:39 Protect our troops overseas, and when their job is
09:03:43 done, bring them back safely to their loved one withs.
09:03:46 And now, O Lord, as we go about the worldly matters of
09:03:51 this city, let us remember to be kind to each other,
09:03:54 provide service with a smile, and be worthy of your
09:03:59 These things we ask and thanks we give with humble
09:04:04 Let us all say: Amen.
09:04:06 (Pledge of Allegiance)
09:04:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Ms. Knowles, very much.
09:04:29 May we have roll call?
09:04:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:04:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:04:35 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:04:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:04:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me, I'm here.
09:04:40 You didn't pronounce my name clearly.
09:04:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: She called your name but I don't
09:04:47 think you heard her.
09:04:53 We will now take up review of the agenda for this
09:04:56 >> Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of Tampa City
09:04:59 Before you, you have the addendum to the agenda.
09:05:05 You have several new business items that you will take
09:05:08 up at the end of the meeting that you received
09:05:12 information about.
09:05:15 You have items 81 and 92 on the staff reports.
09:05:22 I believe there's a request that those items be heard
09:05:24 together so when you take up item 81 that you also
09:05:27 take up item 92 after that.
09:05:31 Item 91, council, is a vote that's been brought
09:05:37 forward because there were insufficient number of
09:05:39 votes to move the item at the last commission meeting
09:05:42 and it's being brought with a closed public hearing
09:05:46 for your vote.
09:05:47 My understanding is, Mr. Chairman, that you may have
09:05:50 to leave before the lunch recess.
09:05:52 So it's been suggested that in order to have a full
09:05:55 council present that you do take up that vote at the
09:05:57 start of staff reports at 10:30.
09:06:01 You have a substitution from the resolution approving
09:06:06 a settlement agreement with Clear Channel outdoor,
09:06:09 item number 87.
09:06:11 You have a memorandum from assistant city attorney
09:06:14 Julia Cole requesting that substitute.
09:06:16 Item 89 you have a substitute ordinance per request of
09:06:20 Rebecca Kert, legal department, for the news racks,
09:06:24 item 89.
09:06:25 And a also you have a request from Chip Fletcher that
09:06:32 item 84 be handled as a written report rather than
09:06:37 in-person appearance.
09:06:39 That you receive and file that written report.
09:06:43 Finally, council, I understand for informational
09:06:46 purposes at 1:30 for those people who are interested,
09:06:50 the appeal hearing on the petition of Eric Schiller,
09:06:55 that cannot be heard.
09:06:56 Item 96, because that record was not perfected by the
09:07:01 So for future, anybody intending to hear that appeal,
09:07:06 it cannot be heard today.
09:07:07 My understanding is those are all the changes.
09:07:11 I am not aware of any others.
09:07:13 And I ask of that council approve the agenda as
09:07:16 >> Any other items?
09:07:19 Motion to approve the agenda?
09:07:23 >> So moved.
09:07:23 >> Second.
09:07:24 >> Okay.
09:07:25 Mrs. Saul-Sena.
09:07:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Just for clarification, it says
09:07:29 that at 11:00 we'll have a 30-minute presentation on
09:07:34 Then at 2:00 we will also have a presentation on
09:07:39 >> No.
09:07:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Or was that shifted?
09:07:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
09:07:43 That's a new business item here.
09:07:45 If you recall, it actually is following up with a
09:07:47 recommendation that we made by September, I think it
09:07:51 was, to have the executive summary and presentation
09:07:55 from the board of county commission, which I serve on
09:07:58 the task force, presented and a resolution to support
09:08:01 the language or placing the issue on the ballot for
09:08:04 the November 2010 for the one-cent sales tax.
09:08:08 So in essence what I am requesting here is that item
09:08:12 19 we have that presentation.
09:08:13 And then follow up with the resolution.
09:08:15 >> And that is different from the presentation of the
09:08:18 special discussion meeting today.
09:08:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:08:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Do we know that we'll actually have
09:08:27 the language to approve by then?
09:08:29 Do they have a deadline?
09:08:32 >> It's coming back to them December 2nd.
09:08:34 The idea is to just go ahead and pass a resolution a
09:08:36 adopting approving and placing the language on the
09:08:39 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm just wondering if we'll know what
09:08:42 the language is.
09:08:46 We could say something on the ballot.
09:08:48 >> That's why it's coming back.
09:08:52 >>MARY MULHERN: We can discuss it then.
09:08:55 Thank you.
09:08:56 >> Anything else?
09:08:57 If not, we'll have public comment at this time.
09:09:01 We have set aside 30 minutes for public comment.
09:09:04 You have three minutes to state your name, address for
09:09:06 the record.
09:09:07 And we give preference first to those items that are
09:09:10 on the agenda.
09:09:11 So if you are here, you want to speak to an item on
09:09:15 the agenda, you may come now and speak.
09:09:18 You may start forming a line along the wall.
09:09:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, there are things on
09:09:26 the agenda today that appear under staff reports that
09:09:29 are set for first reading consideration.
09:09:32 Those are not set for public hearing.
09:09:34 If those do move forward, at first reading, they will
09:09:37 come back in two weeks for second reading and public
09:09:40 If you wish to speak to those items today that are set
09:09:43 for first reading, your opportunity is now in agendaed
09:09:46 public comment.
09:09:47 This would be the time that would you speak.
09:09:49 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:09:49 >> Thank you.
09:09:51 Yes, sir.
09:09:51 >>> My name is Philip Dinkins, 2621 south Brian
09:09:56 circle, I'm the chairman of the City of Tampa human
09:09:58 rights board.
09:09:59 The issue of the need to include gender identity in
09:10:02 the City of Tampa human rights ordinance first came to
09:10:05 the Tampa human rights board's attention over a year
09:10:08 The board has held special workshops in various board
09:10:12 We met with citizens of the community to learn of
09:10:14 their experiences.
09:10:16 The results demonstrated that a need exists in our
09:10:19 city for legal protection for transgendered
09:10:22 individuals from discrimination and the board voted
09:10:24 unanimously to recommend that council consider this.
09:10:27 When I last appeared before you on October 1st,
09:10:30 council member Miranda, you asked me whether or not
09:10:32 the City of Tampa human rights office had received any
09:10:37 complaints of discrimination based upon gender
09:10:40 I have replied at that meeting that I was not aware of
09:10:44 And mentioned that that was probably not unusual since
09:10:46 this was not a covered protected class in our
09:10:50 However, since then I have learned that there have
09:10:55 been eleven complaints filed with the City of Tampa
09:10:58 human rights office, and we believe this is an
09:11:02 extraordinary number considering this isn't even a
09:11:04 protected class.
09:11:07 Obviously no action could be taken.
09:11:08 But we feel that this is an underreporting of actual
09:11:12 likely number of discrimination issues in our
09:11:14 community based upon gender identity.
09:11:17 In the last decade, including gender identity has
09:11:20 become standard practice in human rights laws.
09:11:23 As I mentioned last time I was here, there's 13 states
09:11:26 plus Washington, D.C., and 17 municipalities in
09:11:29 Florida that have included gender identity in their
09:11:33 The latest Florida city was Tallahassee, just last
09:11:37 In their decision, Tallahassee stated that gender
09:11:40 identity inclusion is Kintz with legislation currently
09:11:43 passed and currently under consideration at the
09:11:46 federal level.
09:11:48 The references tots Matthew Shepherd James Byrd hate
09:11:52 crimes prevention acted that was signed into federal
09:11:54 law on October 28th.
09:11:56 And also the pending employment nondiscrimination act
09:12:00 or ENDA which is currently under review by Congress,
09:12:03 both of which include gender identity.
09:12:06 According to the American psychiatric association,
09:12:08 gender identity is a severe psychological disorder.
09:12:12 According to recent California-based study, one in two
09:12:17 transgendered participants have experienced employment
09:12:21 According to the 2007 study by the gay lesbians
09:12:25 straight alliance known as GLSEN, nine out of ten
09:12:30 transgendered students in our schools experience
09:12:32 verbal harassment and more than half experience
09:12:36 physical harassment.
09:12:37 On behalf of the Tampa human rights board I
09:12:40 respectfully ask suggest you take this step to make
09:12:43 sure that all citizens are afforded protection from
09:12:45 discrimination and help our city's continuous
09:12:48 reputation as a welcoming and all inclusive place to
09:12:51 live and work.
09:12:52 Thank you.
09:12:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not too much knowledgeable
09:13:02 about gender so forth and so on, but let me ask you
09:13:09 I can only say this.
09:13:13 I or no one that I know of on this board has ever been
09:13:16 in any way, form, shape or otherwise discriminatory to
09:13:20 anyone, race, color, gender, creed, purple, dotted,
09:13:29 I'm looking at this, and I'm somewhat perplexed by the
09:13:36 And maybe I have it wrong.
09:13:38 Is it today that I'm sitting next to Albert and
09:13:43 tomorrow I'm sitting next to Alice in a workplace?
09:13:46 Is that what we are talking about?
09:13:48 >>> Well, councilman Miranda, gender expression is how
09:13:51 an individual manifests themselves.
09:13:54 We are born biologically as male or female in most of
09:13:57 the cases that fits.
09:13:59 But as the American psychological association has
09:14:02 indicated, there are individuals -- and the numbers
09:14:06 can be as high as one tenth of one percent of our
09:14:10 population experience some type of identity gender
09:14:16 They feel that they are not the person biologically
09:14:18 that they are.
09:14:19 Many people, since it's not a protected situation,
09:14:22 many people just live with that, and they live a very
09:14:27 tough life not being the person they are.
09:14:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You never answered the question.
09:14:34 You should be a great politician.
09:14:36 I asked the question, does that mean in an office
09:14:39 setting, today I'm sitting next to Ellen and tomorrow
09:14:45 I'm sitting next to Tom?
09:14:48 Is that possible?
09:14:49 >>> If that individual has the financial resources and
09:14:52 the family support and the peer support and the
09:14:57 support of their workers to go through a sex change --
09:14:59 >> I'm not talking about a sex change.
09:15:01 >>> Okay.
09:15:02 >> I'm talking about garment ware that you have today
09:15:08 as one person because you talk about psychological
09:15:11 effects and this, that and the other.
09:15:12 I'm thinking about the overall workplace, not only of
09:15:15 this city, but everywhere.
09:15:17 And does that create some type of a disruptive
09:15:23 atmosphere in whatever business you're in or
09:15:25 government you're in, that today you are sitting next
09:15:28 to someone and the next day it's someone else and it's
09:15:30 the same person?
09:15:32 >>> Well, now, that's the very reason we need this law
09:15:34 to protect these individuals.
09:15:35 If they chose to come to work dressed differently
09:15:37 because that's who they felt they were, whether they
09:15:40 went through sexual reassignment surgery or not, they
09:15:43 should have the right to do that.
09:15:44 Why should I have to wear a suit and tie to have go to
09:15:47 my workplace?
09:15:52 >> We'll be debating this.
09:15:53 >> I got the answer.
09:15:54 >> Thank you very much.
09:15:56 Next speaker.
09:15:56 >>> Good morning.
09:16:02 I'm Wofford Johnson, 465 Longfellow Avenue, president
09:16:07 of T.H.A.N.
09:16:09 I'm here to speak on items 87, 88 on your agenda.
09:16:13 These were on your agenda a couple of weeks ago, and
09:16:19 you wisely continued or postponed it until today to
09:16:22 give the various parties an opportunity to get
09:16:24 together and discuss the issues and see what could be
09:16:29 worked out.
09:16:31 As was stated to you at that time, T.H.A.N. has
09:16:33 serious considerations about a number of issues within
09:16:36 that agreement.
09:16:38 Julia Cole has scheduled an information last week, for
09:16:43 various people who have an interest and stake in this
09:16:48 issue did meet, did discuss.
09:16:50 We as neighborhoods had an opportunity to express our
09:16:55 concerns from the standpoint of properly protecting
09:16:57 neighborhoods from billboard requirements.
09:17:05 While we as neighbors and a association recognize that
09:17:10 our -- in a perfect world we wouldn't have billboards,
09:17:15 but we know this is not perfect.
09:17:17 We know there are state laws and former agreements
09:17:21 that the city has that would prevent that.
09:17:22 So our position is that we wanted to maximize what we
09:17:27 could from the standpoint of properly protecting
09:17:32 And we met with them.
09:17:33 We discussed this, these issues with them.
09:17:37 They agreed to certain conditions and so forth that we
09:17:40 had concerns about, and they have been amended.
09:17:44 So I'm here to say from the standpoint of T.H.A.N., we
09:17:48 do not object to items 87 and 88, the amended
09:17:56 I just want to be on record on that.
09:17:57 >> Thank you, sir.
09:17:59 Next speaker.
09:17:59 >>> My name is Todd Pressman, U.S. 19 north,
09:18:08 Clearwater, Florida.
09:18:09 I'm here in regard to item 87, 88, representing Clear
09:18:14 Channel communications.
09:18:16 As a former city mayor once said, you can pave the
09:18:20 streets in gold and there would still be complaints
09:18:23 about glare.
09:18:25 In regard to Mr. Johnson, I think that we can tell you
09:18:27 today that we have addressed the glare problem, we
09:18:30 believe, with sunglasses.
09:18:32 I do want to thank Chip and Julia.
09:18:36 They have, under their supervision, been able to have
09:18:40 even further discussions and been able to address
09:18:43 concerns and issues.
09:18:44 And Clear Channel, I think everyone knows Clear
09:18:46 Channel is a good corporate citizen.
09:18:48 They are always happy to sit down again and talk again
09:18:51 and meets again and talk again, modify positions,
09:18:55 talk, understand positions, and address those issues,
09:18:59 which has been done today.
09:19:02 I would like to make one reminder.
09:19:06 There has been some discussion over the last few weeks
09:19:08 about why issues have been split, why there's two
09:19:11 separate agreements, and I just want to remind
09:19:14 council, I believe as you know that was a direction we
09:19:16 received from council, we thought that was a good
09:19:18 direction, so that's the process that everyone chose
09:19:20 to move forward with.
09:19:21 And with that, we are asking great liberty and respect
09:19:26 that you consider strongly the passage of the
09:19:29 settlement agreement today, and we appreciate your
09:19:30 time and patience.
09:19:31 Thank you.
09:19:32 >> Thank you very much.
09:19:34 Next speaker.
09:19:34 >>> My name is Lewis VERUM, Sterling manor drive,
09:19:43 Tampa, Florida, here to speak on an agenda item
09:19:45 regarding the perspective ban on alcohol sales during
09:19:49 Gasparilla by private charities.
09:19:51 I'm here as a proud board member of HARC, an
09:19:55 organization which provides assistance to persons with
09:19:57 developmental disabilities here in this county.
09:19:59 I'm here to respectfully oppose this proposal.
09:20:03 Obviously I don't think anybody can contest the idea
09:20:05 of trying to make Gasparilla more family friendly.
09:20:09 As a father of a three-year-old boy obviously I
09:20:11 support that.
09:20:11 I think we can all support that.
09:20:13 However, I would respectfully state that this proposal
09:20:15 is wrong specifically for three reasons.
09:20:17 Reason number one would be that it would have
09:20:20 unintended consequences.
09:20:22 Obviously, by going after a fund-raising charities,
09:20:26 particularly in this present economy, when charities
09:20:28 are getting less funds because folks have less money
09:20:31 to give, would be very misguided, particularly with
09:20:35 HARC dealing with people who are developmentally
09:20:37 disabled, we will be dealing with people who are
09:20:39 already hard pressed.
09:20:41 People in fact like my oldest brother Juan Viera who
09:20:47 is developmentally disabled.
09:20:49 People like Juan need assistance and cannot have
09:20:51 further, in effect, cuts.
09:20:53 Secondly, this proposal is wrong because of the fact
09:20:55 that it is overbroad.
09:20:57 There are more reasonable ways to make Gasparilla a
09:21:00 more family friendly event rather than seeking to
09:21:04 curtail a fund-raising abilities by charities that are
09:21:09 in dire need.
09:21:10 For example, I understand the city is taking a look at
09:21:13 hiring more police officers.
09:21:15 I think that's a very good reasonable suggestion.
09:21:17 Lastly, I believe this proposal is misguided because
09:21:20 of the fact that you would be effectively undermining
09:21:23 a partner in civility and in family-friendly culture,
09:21:27 if you will, in Gasparilla.
09:21:29 Take a look at HARC, for example.
09:21:31 Twice in the past I have been a volunteer in the HARC
09:21:36 charity when it comes to with the sale of alcohol at
09:21:39 We have approximately 30 volunteers out there who are
09:21:42 well trained to make sure that underage youth do not
09:21:46 get their hands on alcohol.
09:21:47 And in fact at the expense, at HARC's expense we go
09:21:51 out and hire security personnel who assist us in that
09:21:54 Therefore, by undermining our ability to fund raise at
09:21:58 Gasparilla, not only would you be undermining
09:22:00 effectively an organization which makes Tampa a better
09:22:03 city to live in than some of our most vulnerable
09:22:06 citizens, but I believe would you also be undermining
09:22:09 an organization that helps Gasparilla be a more family
09:22:13 friendly event.
09:22:14 In fact, I would wager to say if this proposal were to
09:22:17 pass, underage drinking, public lewdness, et cetera,
09:22:20 would not be lowered whatsoever in Gasparilla.
09:22:23 In fact, by cutting folks like HARC out that I believe
09:22:26 make Gasparilla a more family-friendly event, I
09:22:29 believe you would see an increase in this kind of
09:22:32 inappropriate behavior.
09:22:33 Therefore, in summary, this proposal however well
09:22:37 meaning it is effectively hurts people who can't
09:22:40 afford to be hurt and pushes people and organizations
09:22:43 already too close to the edge.
09:22:44 Thank you.
09:22:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sir, I want to respond a little
09:22:50 bit because I think there's a lot of confusion on this
09:22:53 For one thing, I volunteered with HARC over in Hyde
09:22:57 Park Village, and I think you guys do great work.
09:23:00 Number two, there's no proposal, okay.
09:23:02 There was a discussion at our last meeting about the
09:23:06 beer gardens.
09:23:08 On further review, our legal counsel and zoning
09:23:11 department reminded us that those permits are now
09:23:15 not -- through the mayor's office so City Council has
09:23:19 no authority whatsoever on those particular temporary
09:23:22 wet zoning permits on the public right-of-way.
09:23:24 So there's nothing pending to impact the nonprofits
09:23:29 and the charities on the beer gardens except for the
09:23:36 Apparently what I find in the newspaper she's fine
09:23:38 with the beer garden so it sounds like you have no
09:23:41 >>> Thank you.
09:23:42 >> Well, one clarification, there's a letter on our
09:23:45 agenda today --
09:23:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's a different issue.
09:23:48 That's about asking grocery stores whether or not --
09:23:51 This is the same issue, I think. Anyway, we'll take
09:23:54 that up at that time.
09:23:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's a related issue, but I want
09:23:58 to clarify that the I shall but the beer gardens, how
09:24:01 they affect the nonprofits, is not the issue that we
09:24:04 will be dealing with a little while later about the
09:24:06 sale from the grocery stores.
09:24:08 >> Okay.
09:24:10 Thank you.
09:24:10 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to ask if perhaps we could
09:24:14 hear from one of the attorneys, perhaps Mr. Shelby
09:24:17 would clarify this, because there are probably people
09:24:20 here who may not be here when we get to that point.
09:24:23 It's a question.
09:24:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, Mr. Dingfelder's recollection
09:24:36 accurately reflects my own.
09:24:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, thanks.
09:24:41 >>JULIA COLE: Rebecca Kert is the attorney who deals
09:24:41 with the alcoholic beverage issues.
09:24:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
09:24:50 Next speaker.
09:24:51 Next speaker.
09:24:52 We'll be here all day.
09:24:53 Next speaker.
09:24:53 >>> Good morning.
09:24:56 My name is Steve Roberto, DUTON circle.
09:25:02 I also happen to be the special events director for
09:25:06 Thank you for the clarification.
09:25:08 I just wanted to thank the City Council and the City
09:25:10 of Tampa.
09:25:12 We have been fortunate enough to be one of the
09:25:14 charities for a number of years.
09:25:17 This is a fund-raiser to have the responsibly run beer
09:25:20 garden during Gasparilla pirate fest, as Mr. VIERA
09:25:25 mentioned, we have 30 trained volunteers under my
09:25:28 I also wanted to confirm that we do hire at our
09:25:31 expense three extra duty officers to provide security
09:25:35 and backup at our beer garden to avoid any unruly
09:25:40 behavior of each potential purchaser of a product, to
09:25:45 have their ID checked, and with regards to whether
09:25:49 they are buying one or two beverages, if you will.
09:25:52 We have run it a number of years without a problem.
09:25:55 HARC provides a variety of services to adults with
09:25:58 developmental disabilities throughout Hillsborough
09:26:00 We now perform for these vulnerable adults at a time
09:26:06 when the economy and the state deficit, when HARC
09:26:10 charity and other 501(c)3s, the funds, 100 percent
09:26:17 of the net proceeds that we raise that day go to the
09:26:22 31 that we operate Monday through Friday providing
09:26:25 services to people that otherwise wouldn't be able to
09:26:29 benefit from our services.
09:26:30 I'm sure we can all relate to how much gas and
09:26:33 insurance has gone up over the years.
09:26:34 So every chance we get to raise hundreds of dollars or
09:26:37 more is vital money to HARC to continue to serve these
09:26:42 very vulnerable folks.
09:26:43 Thank you for your attention.
09:26:44 Have a great day.
09:26:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:26:46 Next speaker.
09:26:49 >>> My name is Kathy Acheveria.
09:26:57 Good morning.
09:26:58 I'm here to speak on the beer garden issue as well.
09:27:02 I'm a member of the Tampa garden club.
09:27:05 We actually are on the parade route.
09:27:09 And having this beer garden helps us have our
09:27:13 building, which is home to many horticultural
09:27:19 We have educational meetings.
09:27:22 Bayshore Gardens meets there.
09:27:24 We give a summer camp for kids in the summer.
09:27:26 We support a nature camp in Apopka that the state
09:27:31 organization operates.
09:27:34 And I'm very relieved to hear a this we are not
09:27:40 And thank you very much.
09:27:41 And hopefully we will be able to keep a presence
09:27:44 there, because at our place, it is a family
09:27:48 We have a large piece of ground, families come there,
09:27:51 we get a dee-jay, the kids are lined up and across the
09:27:55 grass and everything.
09:27:56 So it's been a very good thing for us and we
09:27:59 appreciate the opportunity at this time.
09:28:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:28:04 Next speaker.
09:28:04 >>> Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of the board,
09:28:16 City Council.
09:28:17 My name is Manny Alvarez.
09:28:19 I'm with BB&T bank.
09:28:22 By the last name you might recognize that one of your
09:28:25 colleagues is my wife.
09:28:28 She sat up there for eight years.
09:28:31 I'm here on behalf of the City of Tampa human rights
09:28:36 I'm a member and been a member for quite a few years.
09:28:39 And I have a recommendation, the amending of the City
09:28:45 of Tampa human rights ordinance is something that we
09:28:51 Tampa has the reputation of being a city of -- great
09:28:58 city in America.
09:28:59 We have got to keep that up.
09:29:00 We also by doing this, adopting this amendment, we
09:29:05 would attract the corporations that are hesitant to
09:29:10 come to Tampa with their facilities.
09:29:14 We also have knowledge that Honeywell has adopted it
09:29:20 in their amendments.
09:29:24 The other ones are Raymond James.
09:29:30 I hear that the Hillsborough County lawyers are
09:29:33 working it into their amendments.
09:29:36 And it's something that's very important.
09:29:41 For years, discrimination of any form has been very
09:29:46 I, as a young Hispanic, years ago, we were Latinos, we
09:29:52 weren't Hispanics.
09:29:54 But I was discriminated against.
09:29:56 We really didn't make an issue of it.
09:30:00 We were forbidden of speaking Spanish in school, which
09:30:03 was our language.
09:30:06 We were kept from a lot of activities that we would
09:30:10 have liked to have been part of.
09:30:13 But because of discrimination, it was not available.
09:30:17 The worst was in Sulphur Springs, years ago in the hot
09:30:21 summer, the swimming pool was certainly an attractive
09:30:24 thing for all of us.
09:30:26 We never had a pool, and we felt that that would be
09:30:28 our pool.
09:30:30 There was a big sign put up.
09:30:33 And I must say that I don't remember the exact words,
09:30:36 but I remember the subject.
09:30:39 It said no Latins or dogs.
09:30:43 And I'm sure a lot of you on the committee being of
09:30:49 the age group that has suffered through
09:30:52 discrimination, it's very important that we do adopt
09:30:56 We are an up-and-coming city.
09:30:59 And I would hope that the City Council saw it in their
09:31:03 purview that we do amend the bylaw.
09:31:06 Thank you very much.
09:31:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:31:10 Next speaker.
09:31:10 >> I'm Glen Shull, 4826 West San Jose in Tampa,
09:31:21 I'm here representing the tennis pros who teach in the
09:31:24 City of Tampa.
09:31:29 We develop and conduct programs in tennis, on the city
09:31:33 As a result of that we give the city 20% of all that
09:31:35 we make so the city is making $20,000 some a year at
09:31:39 no cost to them.
09:31:40 We conduct the programs, come as you will, pay when
09:31:44 you play, and at the end of the month we provide 20%.
09:31:48 Our attendance logs for the month to the city.
09:31:52 All they have to do is deposit those four or five
09:31:54 check that is we send to them.
09:31:55 The city now is planning on implementing in January a
09:31:59 program where our customers have to go to a recreation
09:32:03 center, Joe Abrahams or Davis Island, et cetera, to
09:32:07 register, sign up for specific courses.
09:32:09 If they don't attend a session, because of a change in
09:32:12 their schedule, they forfeit those funds.
09:32:15 If they are not on my roster that the city will supply
09:32:18 to me, I have to tell them, you cannot play, and take
09:32:22 a lesson with me, and as a result of that, we feel we
09:32:25 are going to lose a lot of our customers.
09:32:28 I have already -- some of our customers, are
09:32:33 If someone loses their job and say I am not going to
09:32:35 be able to send my job, I lost my job, I said, you
09:32:39 send them, I'll scholarship them and you can resume
09:32:41 paying me.
09:32:42 And the city might have a problem with that. Anyway,
09:32:45 the tennis pros pay also just for collecting the
09:32:49 money, we get our money right away.
09:32:51 As a result of the new proposal, they are proposing a
09:32:54 series of courses for six to eight weeks.
09:32:57 We run this program year round.
09:32:58 We are not offering a class for six weeks.
09:33:01 We run it year round.
09:33:02 And they are saying that after your six or eight
09:33:05 weeks, then the city collects all the evaluation
09:33:08 forms, and all the attendance sheets, and then within
09:33:11 30 days they'll pay the pros. So basically we'll be
09:33:14 waiting for two and a half to three months from the
09:33:16 time the program starts to the time it ends.
09:33:18 Also, my customers say, I don't wants to fill out an
09:33:21 evaluation form on you every six to eight weeks.
09:33:24 The pros like the program the way it is.
09:33:25 The customers like the program the way it is.
09:33:27 And here is the suggestion.
09:33:30 Mr. Shelby, I give him a handout so you can look this
09:33:33 over for next month hopefully.
09:33:35 They like the flexibility of the program that we have.
09:33:37 There's no forfeiture of funds.
09:33:39 And in these economic times we don't want to be asking
09:33:42 our citizens who are taking exercise program to
09:33:45 forfeit funds.
09:33:47 If it was two percent and everything is gung ho they
09:33:52 might be willing to do that.
09:33:53 Right now they are not.
09:33:55 A lot of drop-ins.
09:33:57 Mr. Dingfelder says, hey, at 6:00, conducting a
09:34:00 program, he can come right by, put his ten bucks in my
09:34:05 brief case, come on out and play.
09:34:06 A lot of drop-ins.
09:34:08 A lot of spontaneous response at customer request.
09:34:12 If someone says, Glen, I see you finished a program,
09:34:15 can you teach me a private lesson now?
09:34:17 The city is saying, no, you can't do that.
09:34:19 You have to send them over to Joe Abrahams.
09:34:21 They have we have to send you a roster and then they
09:34:24 can take the lesson.
09:34:25 Also, allow us to accept the fees.
09:34:29 We will recommend that they go over to the recreation
09:34:32 center and sign up and pay ahead of time.
09:34:35 We don't like the idea they have to forfeit funds.
09:34:37 And then we would suggest that Karen Palus or Cathy
09:34:42 Shauntz, who is instituting this program, if they can
09:34:46 include those six items I mentioned at the end and ask
09:34:48 why they are changing.
09:34:49 We have a system that works well.
09:34:51 Why change it?
09:34:52 What questions do you have?
09:34:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Mulhern was first.
09:34:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to ask.
09:35:00 I notice there are a couple of -- yesterday, there
09:35:02 were some items on the agenda for us to approve for
09:35:05 some automated parks.
09:35:08 I would like to have those pulled off the consent
09:35:10 agenda for discussion today.
09:35:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:35:16 >>MARY MULHERN: Since this is an issue and this is
09:35:19 not the only individual we have heard from on this.
09:35:21 >> Which items?
09:35:26 >> 15 and 16.
09:35:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I was going to add that there were
09:35:30 items that were -- and you did give those items number
09:35:35 15 and 16 that are related, I believe.
09:35:38 Those items related to the procurement, acceptance of
09:35:42 a proposal for the automated system that appears to be
09:35:46 referenced bits speaker.
09:35:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I inquired with Karen
09:35:51 because we all were receiving these e-mails.
09:35:53 I know Mr. Shull as well.
09:35:56 And apparently, in doing the research, about a month
09:36:01 ago, October 1st, 2009, on the consent agenda,
09:36:05 there was a resolution that we approved without any
09:36:08 discussion at all, without any explanation from the
09:36:10 Parks Department about it's a new agreement, entering
09:36:15 into contracts with independent contractors for
09:36:18 persons using parks and recs facilities.
09:36:20 It doesn't mention tennis facilities or anything like
09:36:23 It's sort of a generic agreement with people that are
09:36:25 using -- like Mr. Shull and his counterparts who are
09:36:29 independent contractors.
09:36:30 We approved this.
09:36:31 I don't think any of us knew that this applied to this
09:36:37 If I had known I definitely would have pulled it off
09:36:39 the agenda.
09:36:40 I'm a little disappointed in parks and rec that they
09:36:42 didn't come and consult us and say this is the impact
09:36:45 and this is what's going on, and this is
09:36:48 So, anyway, I would like in 30 days, I would like
09:36:52 Karen Palus to come and talk to us.
09:36:56 >> Hold it till we take up item 15 and 16.
09:37:00 We'll hold that, okay?
09:37:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman, I believe
09:37:04 there was a motion and second on that.
09:37:05 >> Well, I would rather take it up after we get
09:37:09 through with the public.
09:37:10 Let's deal with the public, get through it then.
09:37:12 Thank you.
09:37:13 >>> My name is Ethel Hammer.
09:37:18 My address is 4343 ECHOL parkway plaza, 33634.
09:37:26 I'm here this morning to talk about agenda items 87
09:37:29 and 88.
09:37:30 At the outset I want to make it clear that I am not
09:37:33 necessarily here to speak in opposition to the
09:37:35 settlement agreement, but I am asking you to proceed
09:37:38 cautiously with what I am going to call the
09:37:40 implementing tool of this settlement agreement, and
09:37:43 that is the pending digital billboard ordinance.
09:37:47 I am not going to speak to the merits of that
09:37:50 It is not appropriate at this time.
09:37:52 But what I am going to ask is that because of the way
09:37:56 that these two items are intricately intertwined with
09:38:04 each other that you proceed slowly, and that you
09:38:07 afford the public a greater opportunity to have input
09:38:10 to that ordinance.
09:38:12 And I'm asking that if at all possible you set up a
09:38:17 sign committee like you did approximately a year or so
09:38:21 ago when we worked on very diligently -- there were
09:38:25 many interested citizens involved -- on the on-site
09:38:29 sign ordinance amendments.
09:38:30 And by the time that ordinance came to you, there was
09:38:33 very little opposition, because we had worked together
09:38:36 for months on end.
09:38:37 I think this would give an opportunity for
09:38:40 neighborhood representatives, for professionals, for
09:38:44 citizens, to sign officials, for anyone interested,
09:38:51 similar composition of last time, to actually come
09:38:53 together and work through this proposed ordinance,
09:38:55 which I think is the appropriate process.
09:38:57 Right now, what we have is a workshop set-up.
09:39:01 In my opinion that is not going to be a sufficient
09:39:04 venue for everybody to really get their issues
09:39:07 resolved and on the table.
09:39:09 So we would appreciate very much -- I'll be the first
09:39:12 person to volunteer.
09:39:13 And so we ask that you set up that committee so that
09:39:17 we all have a chance to provide input.
09:39:19 Thank you.
09:39:19 >> Thank you very much.
09:39:21 Next speaker.
09:39:22 >> My name is Brenda RIO, North Armenia Avenue, Tampa.
09:39:30 I'm here today as the Executive Director of the
09:39:33 alliance Center for Independent Living.
09:39:35 We are one of the charities that's been selected the
09:39:37 last two years for a beer garden at Gasparilla.
09:39:40 And we do consider it a privilege.
09:39:43 And because of that privilege we make sure that all of
09:39:45 our volunteers are trained.
09:39:47 We card everyone.
09:39:50 We have Port-o-Lets that are right there for the
09:39:52 customers to use.
09:39:54 We take it very seriously.
09:39:56 We are an agency that serves any person in
09:40:00 Hillsborough County with a disability.
09:40:02 Any disability.
09:40:03 We buy wheelchairs for children.
09:40:05 We repair wheelchairs for people.
09:40:10 When our funding has been cut on a federal, state and
09:40:14 a local level.
09:40:15 So we use the money that we make at Gasparilla to
09:40:17 offset those losses and to fill in the gaps.
09:40:21 And I won't reiterate what everyone else said but it's
09:40:25 critical to our organization.
09:40:27 It's good for our community.
09:40:28 And our tent, you will see people in wheelchairs.
09:40:31 You will see people who are deaf, blind, actually
09:40:33 selling beer that day helping us run the tent.
09:40:36 We work very closely with the pirate fest people to
09:40:40 make sure that are we follow all the rules and
09:40:44 So I'm happy to hear that it's not going to be an
09:40:47 So thank you.
09:40:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:40:50 Next speaker.
09:40:51 >>> My name is Frank Roder, address 908 east Louisiana
09:40:58 Avenue in Tampa.
09:40:59 For the last nine years I have been a proud member of
09:41:01 Tampa human rights board and currently serve as
09:41:04 co-chair of the board.
09:41:05 I'm here to speak in favor of our new proposed
09:41:08 expanded ordinance to include gender identity and
09:41:12 This last week, the bill was signed into law by
09:41:16 President Obama to cover sexual gender and identity
09:41:20 Recently Miami-Dade college expanded its policies to
09:41:23 include sexual orientation and gender identity
09:41:26 That is the largest institution of higher education in
09:41:29 America with 167,000 students and 8,000 faculty
09:41:33 Tallahassee's latest city in Florida to add gender
09:41:36 identity and expression to its human rights ordinance.
09:41:42 They joined 17 other municipalities in the State of
09:41:44 Florida to now have gender identity and expression
09:41:46 added to it.
09:41:48 13 states have added gender identity and expression to
09:41:51 their human rights ordinances.
09:41:53 Many ask why this change is needed.
09:41:55 Just look across the bay to what happened in the city
09:41:57 of Largo two years ago with their city manager.
09:42:00 Discrimination in any form is just plain wrong.
09:42:03 In 1991, when Tampa expanded its human rights
09:42:06 ordinance, Ms. Saul-Sena, you were on the board at
09:42:08 that time, to include sexual orientation and many
09:42:12 expressed outrage and warned of dire consequences if
09:42:16 that amendment had passed.
09:42:18 Those predictions never happened.
09:42:19 It is now time to add gender identity and expression
09:42:22 to our human rights ordinance.
09:42:23 It's the right thing to do.
09:42:25 Thank you, members of council.
09:42:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
09:42:27 >>> My name is Kate Melges. I live at 803 E. Norfolk
09:42:36 street in Tampa, and I'm a member of the environmental
09:42:38 community here in Tampa here today to ask you guys to
09:42:41 pass this resolution urging the U.S. Senate to act on
09:42:44 climate before the U.N. Copenhagen, in December.
09:42:49 This is an issue that many people in Tampa are very
09:42:51 concerned about, and two weekends ago I organized a
09:42:55 rally in South Tampa.
09:42:56 It was one of over 5,000 and over 180 countries as
09:43:01 part of an international day of action.
09:43:04 And I would hope that Tampa would step up to the plate
09:43:06 and urge our Senate to take action on this issue.
09:43:08 And I have copies of the resolution.
09:43:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:43:16 Next speaker.
09:43:17 >>> My name is Nick KORUS. I work at 4350 West
09:43:29 Cypress street. I'm a senior business development
09:43:31 manager for Blue Cross Blue Shield, here to speak
09:43:34 about item 85.
09:43:35 I work out of our Tampa regional office in the
09:43:37 Westshore district as I mentioned.
09:43:39 Just a brief summary.
09:43:42 We are Florida based, tax paying mutual nonprofit
09:43:45 company based in Jacksonville.
09:43:47 We employ roughly 6,000 individuals statewide with 230
09:43:50 of our employees here, based here in Tampa.
09:43:54 The state's largest insurer with over 4 million
09:43:57 insured in our health, business and 7.7 million
09:44:00 customers served in all of our other lines of
09:44:04 I'm proud to say that we implemented policies to
09:44:06 protect our employees from gender identity and
09:44:08 expression discrimination in the workplace two years
09:44:12 We believe that it makes good business sense.
09:44:14 But even beyond any business case that can be made we
09:44:17 felt it was and is simply the right thing to do.
09:44:21 Our CEO Dr. Bob Lufanna has consistently demonstrated
09:44:25 the kind of admirable leadership in word and deed that
09:44:29 has made it possible for our company to transform our
09:44:32 working environment into one that encourages all of
09:44:34 our employees to be fully present in the workplace.
09:44:37 We believe that this is good business practice.
09:44:40 We have observed an employee feels safe, respected and
09:44:44 valued, and his or her own merits and abilities
09:44:47 without the fear of discrimination is an empowered
09:44:51 And the empowered employee will demonstrate greater
09:44:55 degrees of innovation, perform better, and show
09:44:58 greater willingness to lead than an employee who may
09:45:01 be faced with the ongoing threats of workplace
09:45:04 In a highly competitive business environments it makes
09:45:07 good business sense to attract and retain the very
09:45:10 best employees.
09:45:11 This is why we consider a culture based on inclusion
09:45:15 and respect to be a competitive advantage.
09:45:17 Such a culture encourages our employees to stay and
09:45:19 perform at their very best.
09:45:22 Thank you, members of the council.
09:45:23 >> Thank you.
09:45:26 We have one last speaker after this lady.
09:45:29 That will conclude our public comments.
09:45:31 >>> I'm here to speak on the billboard settlement.
09:45:37 While I have no objection to it, I do have some
09:45:41 I'm not speaking on the ordinance at all.
09:45:42 But I will volunteer for the committee.
09:45:46 In section 7, reconstruction, reconfiguration, 7-B-4,
09:45:56 in regard to relocation, apparently they can upsize in
09:46:00 the process of the relocation.
09:46:02 There is some language in there that as long as the
09:46:08 sign is relocated does not exceed 672 square feet, or
09:46:12 400 square feet where located, so they can basically
09:46:15 upsize in the process.
09:46:20 There's been other settlements throughout the country.
09:46:23 And I'm kind of surprised that this was not copy
09:46:26 catted from some of the other settlements regarding
09:46:30 If there is a breech in the agreement, basically you
09:46:32 go back to court, back to arbitration.
09:46:35 There are no penalties or fines.
09:46:39 St. Pete, for example, has a $200 a day sign fine for
09:46:45 I'm glad to see that the signs are not in perpetuity
09:46:52 as far as forever.
09:46:56 And section 5, I have a concern about.
09:46:59 I'm not too sure what that means in regard to without
09:47:03 limiting the program application to FDOT and the
09:47:07 right-of-way shall not be limited to the agreement, if
09:47:09 there is a conflict between our agreement and FDOT.
09:47:12 What does that mean as far as to us?
09:47:16 If we work out something that protects our neighbors,
09:47:19 but FDOT has something that's a little broader, it
09:47:22 doesn't give us as much protection, have we now lost
09:47:25 those rights?
09:47:29 And distance separation, has that been addressed?
09:47:34 If it's one for every mile, are we talking about one
09:47:37 for every mile on both sides?
09:47:39 And therefore we have double up?
09:47:47 There's a lot of signage along 275, if there's one
09:47:50 every mile, one on one side and one for every mile on
09:47:54 the other side.
09:47:55 Those are basically my concerns.
09:47:58 And thank you for y'all giving us time to look over
09:48:01 the agreement.
09:48:01 >> Could you state your name for the record?
09:48:05 >> I'm Ingrid Smith, 5605 north Suwannee Avenue,
09:48:11 >> Thank you very much.
09:48:12 Last speaker.
09:48:12 >>> Good morning, distinguished City Council members.
09:48:19 My name is Ryan Yacabachi, and I live at 8110 North
09:48:25 Tenth Street in historic Sulphur Springs.
09:48:28 And I'm here today in support of the resolution that
09:48:34 Kate Melges handed you all, and I just briefly want to
09:48:38 speak about a couple things.
09:48:42 I'm involved in a grassroots organizing in Sulphur
09:48:44 Springs and a recent graduate of USF, and kind of this
09:48:49 whole youth movement that's happening in Tampa and
09:48:51 around the nation.
09:48:52 And I was watching Bill Moyer this past weekend.
09:48:57 If you don't watch it, a great PBS show.
09:49:00 He had a gentleman on, James Galbraith, a brilliant
09:49:04 economist. His father John Galbraith wrote the 1929
09:49:10 Great Depression.
09:49:11 And just to put things in context and why Ms. Melges'
09:49:16 resolution is so important. He makes it very clear
09:49:19 that this recession that we are in is far from over,
09:49:22 and it's not going to be over for the next ten years.
09:49:25 And if we go about doing business as usual, these
09:49:29 problems will not be solved.
09:49:30 And one thing that he made clear, he says that we as a
09:49:35 country and we as a people really need to sit down and
09:49:38 ask ourselves where we want to be in 30 years.
09:49:40 And I don't mean to be rude, but most of you sitting
09:49:44 on this council in 30 years mites not be here.
09:49:50 So, you know, let's be realistic here.
09:49:53 [ Laughter ]
09:49:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I plan to be around.
09:49:56 >>> I hope so.
09:50:00 But in all seriousness, my generation, these issues
09:50:10 are so important because decisions that are being made
09:50:12 now on these issues are going to affect us 30 years
09:50:17 down the road.
09:50:17 And I don't want to live in a world that is business
09:50:20 as usual as we have experienced now, inflating
09:50:23 bubbles, and sub preliminary lending and these types
09:50:27 of practices, dirty energy especially.
09:50:29 President Obama visited Arcadia as you are aware, and
09:50:33 one thing that he said about the solar panel factory
09:50:36 in Arcadia, green collar jobs cannot be outsourced.
09:50:40 These are jobs that stay in the U.S.
09:50:45 Therefore, as City Council members you all have power
09:50:48 in terms of lobbying the mayor's office, the green
09:50:51 officer Thom Snelling, has power in lobbying county
09:50:55 commission, working with grassroots organizations like
09:50:58 myself, and I have spoken with some and currently
09:51:01 working with.
09:51:02 But this is so important.
09:51:03 People in Sulphur Springs, they need jobs.
09:51:05 People all over Tampa need jobs.
09:51:08 The kinds of jobs is the question.
09:51:10 Honeywell and Jabil circuit and these big corporation
09:51:14 that is come in, and drape theory just came to USF,
09:51:17 they are great.
09:51:18 They are not the kinds of jobs that my neighbors can
09:51:20 work at.
09:51:21 They aren't the kind of jobs that put people back to
09:51:24 work and really stimulate the economy.
09:51:27 We need to work together to solve these problems, and
09:51:30 figure out the kinds of jobs like the solar panel
09:51:33 factory in Arcadia, and jobs that are in bill's book
09:51:37 deep economy which I totally recommend to all of you.
09:51:40 I believe it's on Councilwoman's Mulherns', in her
09:51:45 And says finding jobs conducive to the community that
09:51:47 are cost effective, now, low capital investment jobs,
09:51:52 but create a good community.
09:51:53 So thank you.
09:51:54 >> Thank you very much, sir.
09:51:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm sort of depressed now, but
09:51:59 [ Laughter ]
09:52:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We would at this time need to -- I
09:52:06 have a request to be pulled item 15 and 16 by
09:52:10 Councilwoman Mulhern, a motion and second.
09:52:12 All in favor of that signify by saying Aye.
09:52:19 All right.
09:52:19 Is there anyone here that wishes to request a
09:52:22 reconsideration on any legislative issue or matter?
09:52:35 We move to ordinances for first reading consideration.
09:52:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman.
09:52:40 I'm sorry, I stepped out for one second. The motion
09:52:42 was Ms. Mulhern's motion?
09:52:45 >> 15 and 16, yes.
09:52:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I'm not sure how it's related
09:52:49 but I wanted to ask Karen Palus to come in 30 days and
09:52:52 talk to us about the resolution that we adopted on
09:52:58 October 1st, resolution 2009-946 and also about
09:53:03 the tennis program and the issues raised by Mr. Shull.
09:53:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:53:13 Moved by councilman Dingfelder, seconded by councilman
09:53:15 Miranda to come in and talk to us in 30 days on the
09:53:18 whole issue, the tennis issue and resolution.
09:53:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What is 30 days?
09:53:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: First meeting of December.
09:53:31 >> December 3rd.
09:53:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just for the record.
09:53:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
09:53:40 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:53:44 Ordinance being read.
09:53:47 Councilman Dingfelder.
09:53:48 >>> I didn't know if you wanted to speak on item 1.
09:53:59 I thought you called item 1.
09:54:00 Did I jump the gun?
09:54:02 >> The first item.
09:54:03 Did you want to speak to that item?
09:54:05 >>> Just if you needed.
09:54:11 Ernest Mueller, assistant city attorney, this is an
09:54:15 ordinance before you for first reading fur sunset to
09:54:17 council's request regarding striking that recently
09:54:20 added language to 23.5.
09:54:23 It creates a class 1 violation of any other city code
09:54:29 violation in the fines and penalty section of the
09:54:34 civil citation process.
09:54:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:54:41 Not speaking for Mr. Dingfelder, but this is exactly
09:54:43 what Mr. Dingfelder brought up and I seconded.
09:54:46 When we did this some time ago on a different subject
09:54:49 matter, we took a broad form and just passed it
09:54:52 without looking at the text of what ramifications it
09:54:56 would have later on.
09:54:57 In essence, this is the same thing.
09:55:00 This in essence gives a blank check to an individual
09:55:02 who may or may not be trained and doing citation that
09:55:07 is may or may not fall within their jurisdictions.
09:55:10 Therefore, a blank check to go out and get somebody in
09:55:20 Drew Park where this is a junk yard where it's a
09:55:24 salvage yard, it creates a hardship.
09:55:26 Many people don't have the individuals to pay and they
09:55:28 have to hire people to come here and represent them.
09:55:30 And in essence when they get here, guess what -- it's
09:55:34 I have a stack of all this that I can show the council
09:55:41 that made the presentation, I can show you a sign that
09:55:43 says no parking on city right-of-way.
09:55:45 And right under that sign is a little sign that says
09:55:48 parking for such a business only.
09:55:50 Who are we kidding?
09:55:52 We have a problem that if you are going to do this,
09:55:56 you better send a lot of people to a lot of training
09:55:58 to understand.
09:55:59 A sign in Drew Park means one thing.
09:56:02 A sign in downtown means another.
09:56:03 Because they are forgiven.
09:56:05 But the little person down the street, who may not be
09:56:08 in violation, is cited.
09:56:11 And in today's society, they are nervous.
09:56:13 They don't have the money.
09:56:14 And we are putting them out of business.
09:56:16 And therefore I just will not support something that
09:56:18 is a blank check like we did in another part of the
09:56:22 city just recently, and we are bringing it up in 30
09:56:25 days from now.
09:56:26 I don't like to give an open check to anybody.
09:56:28 If you violate it, certainly you should be cited.
09:56:31 And certainly you have 30 days to make restitution
09:56:35 like I believe the law says.
09:56:36 But if you are not, then leave you a loan.
09:56:39 There's nothing wrong with this city that can't be
09:56:42 But we bring people here.
09:56:44 We hammer them.
09:56:46 And then we forgive them at the same time.
09:56:48 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:56:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A question for Mr. Mueller.
09:56:55 This is the citation that we have been discussing for
09:56:58 a long time.
09:56:58 This gives code enforcement employees the opportunity
09:57:03 to write a citation, correct?
09:57:05 >>ERNEST MUELLER: That's already in process.
09:57:09 What this is doing, a month or so ago, two weeks, a
09:57:14 month or so ago, you passed an ordinance that made
09:57:18 changes to 23.5, that added additional code sections.
09:57:22 Mostly from the transportation department or
09:57:25 transportation code that dealt with right-of-way
09:57:28 Also in there was this language that was specifying or
09:57:32 saying that any section of the code that we haven't
09:57:35 specifically identified will be a class 1 that would
09:57:39 have allowed us some sort of enforcement method in
09:57:42 case something came up rather than having to try and
09:57:44 get something passed in six months.
09:57:47 This is striking that.
09:57:48 There was a request to remove that language.
09:57:50 So that's what this ordinance is doing, is removing
09:57:54 that particular language.
09:57:57 It's that catch-all language in class 1.
09:58:00 Otherwise 23.5 in the ordinance will stay the same.
09:58:03 It's just removing that language -- the overall
09:58:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Given that this is narrowing the
09:58:12 focus, I feel comfortable with it and I'll move it.
09:58:18 I'll move it.
09:58:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to make sure, Ms.
09:58:24 Saul-Sena -- and I appreciate and agree with you.
09:58:26 If this takes away the broadness and gives them just
09:58:29 the right to do what they are supposed to be doing,
09:58:32 I'm all for it.
09:58:33 There's no problem with that at all.
09:58:34 >>GWEN MILLER: That is a reconsideration, that is the
09:58:37 ordinance that I had asked to change because it's too
09:58:39 broad, and the city is bringing it back now to change
09:58:43 the wording.
09:58:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ms. Saul-Sena, do you want to read
09:58:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move an ordinance
09:58:49 of the city of Tampa, Florida striking language
09:58:51 recently added to section 23.5-5-A that designated as
09:58:57 a class 1 violation any violation of the Tampa city
09:59:00 code not already scheduled of fines and penalties,
09:59:05 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
09:59:09 providing for severability, providing an effective
09:59:10 >> Seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:59:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I won't be supporting the motion.
09:59:17 Frankly, I think code enforcement does an excellent
09:59:21 job, and I think that they need as many tools as
09:59:24 possible in -- what is it called, their quiver?
09:59:31 To, you know, to make this a better city.
09:59:34 And I don't think that they would abuse that power, I
09:59:40 don't think they do abuse that power.
09:59:42 I think they are out there and they have one of the
09:59:44 toughest jobs in the city.
09:59:45 And I am not going to support it.
09:59:49 I think it was a good attempt by staff and by legal to
09:59:51 broaden -- it is broad, and I think it was intentional
09:59:56 to broaden their authority.
09:59:57 And I don't think they would abuse it.
09:59:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am going to tell you why I'm
10:00:02 supporting it.
10:00:03 Some months back I got a call that said, we have all
10:00:05 these violations on the corner of Himes and St. Louis.
10:00:08 What do you want me to do with them?
10:00:10 I said you do whatever you want to do.
10:00:13 You don't work for me.
10:00:14 He said I am going to ticket them.
10:00:16 I said, let me ask you, as a code enforcement officer
10:00:20 you don't have a right to ticket anyone.
10:00:22 So that day I took my little camera out that my
10:00:26 son-in-law got me, the best gift I ever got in my
10:00:31 And I went down Henderson Boulevard to the Outback.
10:00:33 Great place.
10:00:34 Ate there often.
10:00:35 They got the same illegal parking that the other guy
10:00:38 But they don't ticket them.
10:00:39 And they back out into Henderson Boulevard.
10:00:42 This guy is in the right-of-way.
10:00:44 He's about eight feet out in a street that's got
10:00:46 maybe, oh, a circulatory movement of cars of about 20
10:00:51 a day.
10:00:52 And that one has about 20 seconds.
10:00:56 And I tell myself, isn't this wonderful?
10:00:58 So that's why I'm supporting the ordinance.
10:01:00 >> Moved and seconded.
10:01:02 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:01:05 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder voting
10:01:07 Second reading of the ordinance will be held November
10:01:10 19th at 9:30 a.m.
10:01:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We go to our committee reports.
10:01:14 The first committee is public safety.
10:01:16 Councilwoman Miller.
10:01:18 >>GWEN MILLER: I move items 2 through 12.
10:01:20 >> Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:01:25 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:01:29 We move now to parks and recreation.
10:01:31 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:01:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:01:33 I want to point out items 13 and 14 are making
10:01:36 improvements to Ben T. Davis beach.
10:01:39 This is long overdue.
10:01:40 I'm pleased we are doing this.
10:01:41 I would like to move items 13 and 14, and 17 through
10:01:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:01:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 97 needs to be included, a late
10:01:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 97?
10:02:02 >> Consent item but it was a late add-on.
10:02:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And 97.
10:02:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:02:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:02:11 All in favor?
10:02:13 Pulled item 15 and 16 for staff to show up on that.
10:02:17 Public works.
10:02:17 Council Charlie Miranda.
10:02:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move 20 through 27.
10:02:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
10:02:28 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:02:35 Finance Committee.
10:02:37 Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:02:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:02:40 I move items number 28 through 35.
10:02:43 >> Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:02:46 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:02:50 Building and zoning.
10:02:51 Council M.A.P. Caetano.
10:02:52 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to move items 36
10:02:55 through 57.
10:02:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:03:00 >> All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:03:05 The transportation committee, councilman Dingfelder.
10:03:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, ma'am, Mr. Chairman.
10:03:10 Move items 58 through 65.
10:03:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
10:03:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:03:17 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:03:21 We have a public hearing now on second reading of the
10:03:24 proposed ordinance number 66.
10:03:29 Move to open?
10:03:30 >> So moved.
10:03:30 >> Second.
10:03:31 >> All in favor?
10:03:33 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item
10:03:37 Anyone wish to address council on item 66?
10:03:40 Motion to close.
10:03:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
10:03:42 >> Second.
10:03:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder, do you want to
10:03:49 read item 66?
10:03:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move an ordinance of the city of
10:03:59 Tampa, Florida amending City of Tampa code chapter 28,
10:04:03 special events, section 28-32 and section 28-34, said
10:04:06 amendment being necessary to amend the requirements
10:04:08 for review and approval of special event permits and
10:04:11 to amend the requirements of the special event
10:04:13 committee meetings providing for repeal of all
10:04:15 ordinances in conflict providing an effective date.
10:04:17 This is moved for approval on second reading.
10:04:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
10:04:24 Seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:04:26 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:04:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have continued public hearing on
10:04:39 item 67.
10:04:40 Item 67.
10:04:49 It says continued public hearing, second reading.
10:04:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, for the record,
10:05:01 let's open all of them, to 75.
10:05:04 That way we can continue so there --
10:05:08 Motion and second to open all the public hearing
10:05:11 All in favor say Aye.
10:05:13 Let the record note Councilwoman Mulhern seconded
10:05:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you want to swear the witnesses?
10:05:19 >> Yes.
10:05:20 If you are going to speak to council, please stand and
10:05:22 be sworn at this time.
10:05:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: On item 67 through 75.
10:05:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: For public hearing.
10:05:28 Please stand and be sworn.
10:05:29 (Oath administered by Clerk)
10:05:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 67.
10:05:36 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
10:05:41 Item 67 is actually a second reading.
10:05:43 I believe we did close the first, and there was a
10:05:46 motion made.
10:05:48 Those plans have been certified and it is ready for
10:05:50 second reading.
10:05:51 All a of the items for your second readings today that
10:05:54 require certified site plans, they have been certified
10:05:57 and provided to the clerk's office.
10:05:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Does anyone wish to address council
10:06:01 on item 67 from the public?
10:06:03 Motion to close?
10:06:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
10:06:05 >> Second.
10:06:08 All in favor?
10:06:10 >> Councilwoman Mulhern, item 67.
10:06:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented
10:06:16 for second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning
10:06:19 property in the general vicinity of 3822 and 3824
10:06:24 south Himes Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida and
10:06:26 more particularly described in section 1 from zoning
10:06:29 district classifications CG commercial general to PD
10:06:33 planned development, commercial general uses, lot A
10:06:36 and B, single-family residential, lot B, providing an
10:06:39 effective date.
10:06:41 Continued from October 15, 2009.
10:06:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Moved and seconded by councilman
10:06:48 Record your vote, please.
10:06:48 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:06:58 >> Item 68.
10:06:59 Item 68.
10:07:04 Anyone from the public?
10:07:05 >> Move to close.
10:07:06 >> Second.
10:07:07 (Motion carried).
10:07:07 >> I move an ordinance providing a special use permit
10:07:10 S-2 approving a bank with a drive-in window in a CG
10:07:14 commercial general and RS-75 residential single-family
10:07:17 zoning district in the general vicinity of 3010 West
10:07:21 Gandy Boulevard in the city of Tampa, Florida as more
10:07:24 particularly described in section 1 hereof providing
10:07:26 an effective date.
10:07:26 >> Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
10:07:30 Record your vote, please.
10:07:31 >>THE CLERK: Moss carried unanimously.
10:07:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 69.
10:07:41 Anyone from the public wish to address council?
10:07:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
10:07:46 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
10:07:48 (Motion carried).
10:07:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 69.
10:07:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to adopt the following importance
10:07:52 upon second reading.
10:07:53 An ordinance approving a special use permit S-2 for
10:07:56 alcoholic beverages sales, small venue and making
10:08:00 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol of
10:08:02 more than 1% by weight and not more than 14% by weight
10:08:06 and wines regardless of alcoholic content, beer and
10:08:09 wine, 2(APS), in sealed containers for consumption off
10:08:13 premises only at or from that certain lot, plot or
10:08:16 tract of land located at 2928 east Fowler Avenue,
10:08:20 Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in
10:08:23 section 2 hereof, providing for repeal of all
10:08:26 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
10:08:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
10:08:31 >> Record your vote.
10:08:33 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:08:43 >> Item 70.
10:08:44 Anyone wishing to address council?
10:08:47 Motion to close?
10:08:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
10:08:49 >> Second.
10:08:49 >> All in favor say Aye.
10:08:53 Item 70.
10:08:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move an ordinance presented for
10:08:56 second reading and adoption, an ordinance approving a
10:08:58 special use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales,
10:09:01 small venue and making lawful the sale of beverages
10:09:05 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not
10:09:08 more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of
10:09:11 alcoholic content, beer and wine, 2(COP-R), for
10:09:13 consumption on the premises only in connection with a
10:09:16 restaurant business establishment on that certain lot,
10:09:18 plot or tract of land located at 100 east Madison
10:09:22 street, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described
10:09:24 in section 2 hereof, providing for repeal of all
10:09:27 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
10:09:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded by
10:09:32 Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:09:34 Record your vote, please.
10:09:35 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:09:42 >> Item 71.
10:09:44 Anyone wish to address council on item 71?
10:09:49 >> Move to close.
10:09:50 >> Second.
10:09:50 (Motion carried)
10:09:52 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance being presented for
10:09:54 second reading on adoption an ordinance approving a
10:09:57 special use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales,
10:10:01 small venue and making lawful the sale of beverages
10:10:03 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not
10:10:05 more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of
10:10:09 alcoholic content, beer and wine, 2(COP-R), for
10:10:14 consumption on the premises only in connection with a
10:10:16 restaurant business establishment on that certain lot,
10:10:20 plot or tract of land located at 2202 East 7th Avenue,
10:10:25 Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in
10:10:27 section 2 hereof, providing for repeal of all
10:10:30 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
10:10:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:10:38 Record your vote, please.
10:10:39 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent
10:10:51 at vote.
10:10:51 >> Item 72.
10:10:53 Anyone here wishing to address council on item 72?
10:10:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:10:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:10:58 >> All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:11:01 Councilman Dingfelder, item 782.
10:11:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move the following ordinance for
10:11:06 second reading, an ordinance approving a special use
10:11:08 permits S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, small venue,
10:11:13 and making lawful the sale of beverages containing
10:11:15 alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not more than
10:11:17 14% by weight and wines regardless of alcoholic
10:11:20 content, beer and wine, 2(COP-R), for consumption on
10:11:23 the premises only in connection with a restaurant
10:11:25 business establishment on that certain lot, plot or
10:11:28 tract of land located at 19050 Bruce B. Downs
10:11:32 Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly
10:11:34 described in section 2 hereof providing for repeal of
10:11:37 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective
10:11:38 >> Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:11:42 Record your vote, please.
10:11:54 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda absent at
10:11:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 73.
10:11:58 Anyone wishing to address council on item 73?
10:12:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:12:03 >> Second.
10:12:03 (Motion carried)
10:12:05 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented
10:12:06 for second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning
10:12:09 property in the general vicinity of 601 east Whiting
10:12:11 Street in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
10:12:14 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
10:12:17 district classifications CBD-2 central business
10:12:20 district to CBD-2, central business district,
10:12:24 residential multifamily, providing an effective date.
10:12:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
10:12:30 Record your vote, please.
10:12:31 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent
10:12:39 at vote.
10:12:39 >> Item 74.
10:12:41 Item 74.
10:12:42 Anyone wishing to address council?
10:12:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
10:12:46 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
10:12:47 (Motion carried)
10:12:49 >>GWEN MILLER: I move to adopt the following
10:12:50 ordinance upon second reading.
10:12:52 An ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity
10:12:54 of 2815 and 2817 west Parkland Boulevard in the city
10:12:59 of Tampa, Florida, and more particularly described in
10:13:01 section 1 from zoning district classifications RS-75
10:13:05 residential single-family and PD planned development,
10:13:08 residential single-family, to PD, planned development,
10:13:12 residential single-family, providing an effective
10:13:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by Councilwoman
10:13:19 Record your vote, please.
10:13:20 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent
10:13:28 at vote.
10:13:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 75.
10:13:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:13:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just so the record is clear --
10:13:40 Does anyone in the public wish to address council?
10:13:42 Moved and seconded.
10:13:43 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:13:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move the following
10:13:59 ordinance for second reading and adoption.
10:14:01 An ordinance rezoning property in the general advice
10:14:04 interests of 2005 and 2107 east Osborne Avenue and
10:14:09 4616 north 22nd street in the city of Tampa, Florida
10:14:13 and more particularly described in section 1 from
10:14:15 zoning district classifications CG commercial general,
10:14:20 RS-50 residential single-family, and PD planned
10:14:23 development single-family attached, semi-detached, to
10:14:27 PD planned development clinic, providing an effective
10:14:30 But I wonder if I could put a caveat on that.
10:14:32 And this is a question for the staff.
10:14:36 I don't have any problems with this rezoning.
10:14:39 But at our first hearing, there was a historic house,
10:14:44 the Hargrett bungalow that was identified, and we
10:14:49 asked the city to work with the property owner to move
10:14:52 And the property owner indicated that he would be
10:14:55 willing to allow someone to move it but he had no
10:14:58 interests in it.
10:14:59 And I think that this is a historic resource.
10:15:05 We have money, because it's in East Tampa, to do the
10:15:09 Mr. Dingfelder wrote a letter to Ed Johnson, the CRA
10:15:14 person from East Tampa, and the question I have is,
10:15:18 can we allow this rezoning to go ahead would with the
10:15:21 caveat that a demolition permit will not be allowed
10:15:26 for that building for 30 days to give the city a
10:15:31 chance to work with the property owner and move this
10:15:33 historic house?
10:15:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If that is a question you wish to
10:15:37 have answered --
10:15:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That is a question I wish to have
10:15:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You need to reopen the public
10:15:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move to the reopen the public
10:15:45 This is important.
10:15:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:15:47 (Motion carried)
10:15:48 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
10:15:50 First let me just say procedurally, at this time at
10:15:54 second reading if there is a new condition that you
10:15:56 wish to place on this rezoning, you would have to --
10:16:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I don't know that it's something
10:16:01 we have to place on the rezoning.
10:16:03 I'm asking, can we not allow a demolition permit for
10:16:07 30 days?
10:16:09 >>JULIA COLE: The demolition permit would be through
10:16:12 your regular processes.
10:16:14 Now, I understand that this home has not been
10:16:18 But I do understand that when you have structures that
10:16:22 are over a certain age that go forward for a
10:16:25 demolition, that those demolition requests are also
10:16:29 forwarded to our historic preservation manager for a
10:16:32 determination as to whether or not there should be
10:16:35 some moving forward with a designation process, or at
10:16:39 least contemplating that.
10:16:40 So that's the process that you have in place today.
10:16:44 So that's what would be followed.
10:16:46 Anything else would obligate a condition on this
10:16:50 rezoning which I'm not really sure.
10:16:52 I would have to think about legally whether or not
10:16:54 that would even be appropriate, given the nature of
10:16:56 the request and the fact that this is not a designated
10:17:00 So I think even if that is something that you did want
10:17:02 to condition this rezoning on --
10:17:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is there a representative from the
10:17:06 petitioner here?
10:17:14 Have you been contacted by Ed Johnson of the city CRA
10:17:17 and talked to him about potentially getting this house
10:17:20 >>> Well, we actually talked about it that night after
10:17:23 the meeting.
10:17:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name.
10:17:24 >>> I'm Stephani Seiger, Tampa health centers.
10:17:30 I love what you are doing.
10:17:32 The plan is beautiful and I don't want to hold you up.
10:17:34 I want to save this house if we can.
10:17:36 >>> We talked about it immediately after the meeting.
10:17:38 We did speak about it.
10:17:39 But my actual CEO is out of town right now.
10:17:43 And I don't think we talked anything beyond that.
10:17:46 I mean, we are willing to work with them to try to
10:17:48 move the house but we haven't done any other
10:17:50 conversation beyond that to my knowledge.
10:17:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
10:17:53 Would you be willing to?
10:17:56 Basically what was said if it doesn't cost anything
10:18:03 you are willing to let it go.
10:18:05 So it's really in the city's court to do something.
10:18:08 >> Yes.
10:18:09 And we are willing to work with you.
10:18:10 >> And you are not going to apply for a demolition
10:18:12 permit in the next week, I would hope?
10:18:14 >> Well, we were planning on applying on the because
10:18:18 of the stimulus dollars and need to move forward with
10:18:20 the project.
10:18:20 So I don't think working with the city would put us
10:18:22 back that much farther.
10:18:25 But I would have to talk to him to make sure.
10:18:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't know.
10:18:29 >>I don't want to commit to something not being --
10:18:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:18:33 Does anybody from legal know what the rules are in
10:18:35 terms of how much time there is between a person
10:18:36 applying for a demolition permit with a structure
10:18:39 that's over 50 years old and the staff turn around?
10:18:44 >>JULIA COLE: I don't know the answer.
10:18:45 >> Could you find out in the next 15 minutes?
10:18:48 >>> I could attempt to find out in the next 15
10:18:50 I could contact Mr. Hernandez.
10:18:53 I don't know if that means you hold the rezoning.
10:18:57 I'm not going to hold the rezoning.
10:18:59 The ball is in the city's court and I want us to get
10:19:01 going and that's the thing.
10:19:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
10:19:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Saul-Sena, I'm glad you picked
10:19:09 up on that.
10:19:10 I forgot that one was coming back.
10:19:12 Next week we have our CRA meeting, next Thursday.
10:19:15 So why don't we -- could we add that to the CRA agenda
10:19:20 and get a report from Ed Johnson on that issue and see
10:19:23 where that is?
10:19:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excellent.
10:19:26 Thank you.
10:19:29 I'm ready to read the motion.
10:19:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close.
10:19:32 >> So moved.
10:19:33 >> Second.
10:19:33 (Motion carried)
10:19:35 >> Have we read the ordinance?
10:19:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
10:19:38 But we didn't vote, though.
10:19:39 >> Record your vote, please.
10:19:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman, can we make a motion
10:19:46 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:19:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A motion to put that on the CRA
10:19:50 agenda, a report from Mr --
10:19:54 City Council can't do it.
10:19:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Otherwise to get on the agenda --
10:19:59 >>GWEN MILLER: You can request but you can't --
10:20:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to make a motion that
10:20:03 take T CRA chairman ask Mr. Johnson, that he set up a
10:20:06 conversation immediately with the -- and he has your
10:20:09 contact information?
10:20:11 So report back.
10:20:15 What is the address of the house?
10:20:21 North 22nd street, and the opportunity to work with
10:20:24 the property owner to move the historic house to
10:20:29 another property.
10:20:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: One second, ma'am.
10:20:33 Mr. Chairman, if I could.
10:20:35 The only thing I was going to add is, would you look
10:20:38 and see what the cost is going to be to demolish it?
10:20:41 And then maybe that could be used to help somebody
10:20:44 move it.
10:20:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A motion and then it was seconded.
10:20:55 It was just a request.
10:20:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:21:02 Item 76 seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:21:16 (Motion carried)
10:21:17 Anyone wishing to address council on item 76?
10:21:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:21:23 >> Second.
10:21:24 (Motion carried)
10:21:25 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance being presented for
10:21:27 second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning
10:21:29 property in the general vicinity of 10851 Cross Creek
10:21:32 Boulevard in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
10:21:35 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
10:21:38 district classifications PD-A, planned developmental
10:21:41 alternative, residential, retail, office, general
10:21:45 commercial, to PD-A, planned developmental
10:21:48 alternative, residential, retail, office, general
10:21:51 commercial, providing an effective date.
10:21:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
10:21:57 Record your vote, please.
10:21:58 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:22:08 >> We move to our 10:30 items.
10:22:11 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
10:22:14 I know you heard were on the CRA agenda but I did
10:22:21 obtain an answer from Dennis Fernandez.
10:22:28 For some kind of historic significance 60 days to
10:22:31 review the issue and to assist or do whatever they
10:22:33 think is appropriate, take it to the board, maybe look
10:22:35 for a new location, those kinds of questions.
10:22:37 I do understand the particular property is subject to
10:22:39 stimulus money, and I think Dennis will be prepared to
10:22:42 move that quicker given the situation.
10:22:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll help your agenda out a little
10:22:50 On item 90, regarding hydroelectric energy production
10:22:55 over the dam, I think we all got a memo back from Mr.
10:23:00 Baird on that.
10:23:01 I'm comfortable with that.
10:23:02 He and I had discussion and unless other council
10:23:05 members have a question I'm good with the written
10:23:08 report alone.
10:23:08 >> That's item 90.
10:23:11 Do you want to --
10:23:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just move to receive and file the
10:23:15 written report.
10:23:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 90.
10:23:18 Move to receive and file.
10:23:19 Seconded by Ms. Mulhern.
10:23:21 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:23:26 We need to take up the first item, if we can.
10:23:30 The rezoning.
10:23:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I have a request on
10:23:34 that if we could hold that till 10:30 because there
10:23:37 might be somebody who would be waiting to come in for
10:23:39 that specific item.
10:23:41 I apologize, but perhaps there are other things.
10:23:45 For instance, item 81 is a report that Lee
10:23:48 Huffstutler, chief accountant gave regarding the full
10:23:51 cost allocation, if you want a discussion on that.
10:24:05 Move to 77 and 78.
10:24:10 We don't want Mrs. Wise to come up --
10:24:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, I don't know whether
10:24:14 you -- somebody might want her here on 92.
10:24:17 That's a different issue.
10:24:18 >> They are tied together if I understand.
10:24:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm confused.
10:24:24 >> Let's go down to 77.
10:24:27 Let's take 77.
10:24:28 That's to receive and file.
10:24:30 Item 77.
10:24:34 Moved and seconded.
10:24:34 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: City clerk.
10:24:41 I'm here regarding item 77 through 80.
10:24:45 Item 77, the Barrio Latino commission, we have one
10:24:50 vacancy for alternate position.
10:24:53 However, we have no applicants.
10:24:55 And we will readvertise that one.
10:24:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Does that have a professional
10:25:00 requirement, Shirley?
10:25:01 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: No, it's an alternate
10:25:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's an open seat?
10:25:09 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Yes.
10:25:10 I understand they have to be a resident of Ybor City
10:25:16 But nothing real special on that one.
10:25:19 An alternate.
10:25:21 We also don't have a problem with the quorum right
10:25:24 So we do have an opportunity there.
10:25:28 On item 78, civil service board, we have one vacancy
10:25:33 for council appointment and one applicant.
10:25:39 Mr. Michael Suarez.
10:25:43 He's a commercial risk management consultant.
10:25:46 He's not here, I don't believe.
10:25:48 However, we have two letters of recommendation.
10:25:56 I believe that has been forwarded to you.
10:25:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Before we go any further, I would
10:26:03 like the department -- I know the gentleman very well.
10:26:07 He's very well qualified.
10:26:08 But the way, the way I read things last night he's
10:26:12 applied for two of them, because there's only two
10:26:15 And the other one is something and the other one is
10:26:18 something else and he qualified for both.
10:26:21 Can he serve on two boards?
10:26:22 I don't know.
10:26:23 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: My understanding is he can.
10:26:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to make sure.
10:26:29 I have no problem with it as long as legally.
10:26:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, legal did advise -- is anyone
10:26:37 here from legal?
10:26:38 >> I don't know if he wants to do both.
10:26:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We don't have no attorneys here?
10:26:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We are having a side bar.
10:26:53 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
10:26:55 I am not really sure how to answer that question.
10:26:57 I would probably go ahead --
10:26:59 I was told that they could do it but I just want to
10:27:01 get it on the record because councilman Miranda was
10:27:03 raising that as an issue.
10:27:05 >>JULIA COLE: I would want to defer.
10:27:08 >> We'll defer that, Mr. Miranda, if you don't mind.
10:27:11 But we can go ahead and approve him for this one
10:27:13 Is that right?
10:27:15 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Yes.
10:27:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
10:27:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:27:18 >> Moved and seconded.
10:27:22 (Motion carried)
10:27:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I know his wife.
10:27:24 I don't believe she wants him on both.
10:27:25 [ Laughter ]
10:27:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Maybe she does.
10:27:30 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Moving on to 79, enterprise
10:27:33 zone, development agency.
10:27:35 We have two vacancies due to resignations and two
10:27:43 Emanuel A. Leto, program outreach coordinator for the
10:27:48 history center, and Stuart Milton Rogers.
10:27:51 I don't know if they are here.
10:27:52 >>> Thank you for allowing me to speak.
10:28:00 My name is Emanuel Leto, a resident of Ybor City,
10:28:03 which is part of Tampa's enterprise zone.
10:28:06 I'm also an employee of the Tampa Bay history center.
10:28:09 I have been on the enterprise zone for the past three
10:28:12 We started some work there basically with marketing
10:28:16 the enterprise zone and making business owners within
10:28:19 the zone more aware of the benefits and incentives
10:28:23 that are available.
10:28:24 And I would like to be considered for reappointment to
10:28:26 that board so we can continue with the work that we
10:28:29 have begun and instituted over the past three years.
10:28:33 So I will just keep my remarks brief and say thank
10:28:36 >> Thank you very much.
10:28:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for your service.
10:28:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll come back to that.
10:28:43 >>> Stewart Rogers.
10:28:50 I'm chief operating officer at Hamilton engineering
10:28:54 in, downtown.
10:28:57 I lived in the city of Zephyrhills, downtown
10:28:59 redevelopment committee.
10:29:00 I'm very interested in -- and also come in contact
10:29:03 with a lot of folks who might be developers or new
10:29:06 businesses coming into town and I think it would allow
10:29:11 the perspective of this committee.
10:29:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move both of these fine
10:29:17 >> Second.
10:29:18 >> All in favor?
10:29:23 We'll hear from legal now.
10:29:24 >>SAL TERRITO: Sorry I wasn't here.
10:29:26 The question about whether the person can serve on
10:29:29 Only if they are not considered to be office holder
10:29:32 positions and one of them is an advisory body, as
10:29:35 such, there's not a conflict of being on both of them.
10:29:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
10:29:40 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: The last item, item 80, equal
10:29:47 business opportunity advisory council.
10:29:50 We have two positions available.
10:29:52 One for Hispanic American citizen, and one for
10:29:56 Caucasian female citizen.
10:29:58 We have two applicants again, Mr. Michael Suarez, for
10:30:02 the Hispanic American, and Ms. Jamie Kahns for the
10:30:09 Caucasian female citizen.
10:30:10 And I believe Ms. Kahns is here.
10:30:15 >> Good morning.
10:30:19 My name is Jamie Kahns. I'm a development manager for
10:30:24 the American Lung Association.
10:30:25 I lived in this great area for eight years now and I
10:30:27 would be very excited to have this opportunity to give
10:30:29 back to my community and to volunteer and be a part of
10:30:32 this equal business opportunity advisory council.
10:30:35 I feel that I would be a great fit for it because I
10:30:38 have patience, I'm a great listener, I have passion of
10:30:42 working with people, and I really do want to make a
10:30:45 I appreciate the opportunity to talk to you today.
10:30:48 Thank you for the opportunity.
10:30:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move Ms. Suarez and Ms. Conn.
10:30:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:30:58 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:31:02 Thank you very much.
10:31:04 Item 81.
10:31:09 There was a motion earlier.
10:31:11 Mr. Dingfelder, did you make that motion?
10:31:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Mulhern did.
10:31:15 I seconded it.
10:31:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion to receive and file 81.
10:31:20 Moved and seconded.
10:31:21 Motion by Councilwoman Mulhern, seconded by councilman
10:31:26 All in favor?
10:31:28 I am going to ask item 92.
10:31:46 >>BONNIE WISE: Item 92 relates to the CIP
10:31:50 reimbursement program for the city, a program that has
10:31:52 been in existence since 1987, has been initially
10:31:55 recommended by external auditors, in order to give us
10:31:58 the opportunity to capture the full cost of our
10:32:02 capital improvement projects.
10:32:03 And so what we do with that, we allocate those
10:32:06 indirect and direct costs of our public works,
10:32:10 contract admin department, and ensure that all
10:32:13 projects get those charges accordingly.
10:32:16 What we do is that each year, we have been using a
10:32:20 certain percentage over the past full years, past few
10:32:23 It's to determine what those costs for those various
10:32:25 departments everybody and allocate them for our
10:32:29 upcoming capital projects.
10:32:30 And occasionally what has happened, and I think the
10:32:33 reason that this motion was made, is occasionally that
10:32:36 some of these projects will show in the negative in a
10:32:40 certain line item because the financial system
10:32:42 automatically charges these kinds of projects, and so
10:32:45 sometimes we have to reverse those charges manually.
10:32:47 And that has happened from time to time.
10:32:50 So I just wanted to let you know this is an ongoing
10:32:52 program, and it is consistent with grant guidelines
10:32:56 and other jurisdictions.
10:32:58 Any questions?
10:33:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:33:00 I had an opportunity to speak with Ms. Wise about this
10:33:03 earlier this week and she said they are actually doing
10:33:05 a study now to take a look to make sure that this 1.5
10:33:10 that's being charged is the right number, that we are
10:33:13 not overcharging or undercharging to do this.
10:33:16 Administrative supervision.
10:33:18 So, I mean, it's just the reality that we have to pay
10:33:21 for administration.
10:33:29 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank Ms. Wise for doing that study.
10:33:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
10:33:39 Item 82.
10:33:40 Item 82.
10:33:41 This is the letter I guess you all voted on last week.
10:33:44 Two weeks ago when I wasn't here.
10:33:46 >>GWEN MILLER: We didn't vote.
10:33:55 We carried it over.
10:33:55 We want add full council.
10:33:57 >> Well, my concern is, and I talked to legal about
10:34:00 this, and first of all, we are going to send a letter
10:34:03 out from council to the grocery stores, asking them
10:34:08 and gas stations I guess not to sell within certain
10:34:12 geographical areas on a volunteer basis.
10:34:15 Is that right?
10:34:15 And it's my understanding that from a legal standpoint
10:34:20 they are not violating any ordinance.
10:34:22 They have a right.
10:34:24 We are asking them to do something that they have a
10:34:26 legal right to do.
10:34:27 And the other problem I have is you are asking the
10:34:31 chairman to send it along with his signature.
10:34:35 And that's a big objection.
10:34:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's why the six of us put you
10:34:41 as chairman.
10:34:42 [ Laughter ]
10:34:47 But let me say this.
10:34:48 You know, things have to be done.
10:34:51 And for the first time in a long time I saw consensus
10:34:54 in this chamber from various groups that had been
10:34:58 absent for a long time, from the neighborhood, from
10:35:00 the Krewe, from participants, from 501(c)3 nonprofits,
10:35:06 and this is way got out of it.
10:35:07 Participants in the Krewe, they can participate on a
10:35:12 voluntary Port-o-Let program which allows the
10:35:14 merchants to order a Port-o-Let at the Krewe's
10:35:16 discounted rate of one half the normal rate.
10:35:19 That's about 75 bucks.
10:35:21 And the Krewe would add their address to the delivery
10:35:25 In other words you get with the Krewe.
10:35:27 You order it.
10:35:27 You get a discount to have and facilitate around your
10:35:31 So what's been happening in the past won't happen in
10:35:34 the future.
10:35:37 Strict enforcement of underage sales.
10:35:40 And if you look at the recent Guavaween, I forgot
10:35:47 where it was is the or 20 or so that were arrested for
10:35:50 underage drinking.
10:35:51 And I think it has to be enforced very strictly.
10:35:54 And the Krewe as I understand it has -- will post
10:36:01 responsible drinking signs, and I believe this and the
10:36:08 arrests if there are clear violations.
10:36:09 I'm also protecting the neighborhood.
10:36:11 I'm all for doing what they say we do but we have to
10:36:15 understand that it's not only in that one sector of
10:36:18 the city that this thing happens.
10:36:19 There are other sectors in the city.
10:36:21 And I don't know why district 6 is blessed with most
10:36:25 of these problems but we are.
10:36:26 And when you look at stadium events or events at a
10:36:30 stadium -- and I won't mention any stadium -- you will
10:36:32 find that there is equal to or greater than the amount
10:36:36 of the problems that we had during that one event, or
10:36:40 that one day, in the wonderful city of Tampa, Florida,
10:36:43 where individuals could come and enjoy themselves
10:36:46 without having a lot of money in their pocket.
10:36:49 I remember when I was a young man -- well, that was
10:36:54 before Gasparilla.
10:36:55 But you can see things that happened that you were
10:37:00 coming in and watching these beautiful floats, and I
10:37:02 used to look at the girls and I would say, Wow.
10:37:07 I'm adjusts telling you the truth, Mr. Caetano. You
10:37:09 don't remember that because of your age.
10:37:11 But yeah I'm saying is these things are a joy, and the
10:37:15 people that come in to Tampa really appreciate and
10:37:18 understand what a wonderful city we have.
10:37:20 Is it a burden on people?
10:37:22 Yes, it is.
10:37:22 But it's a burden on people in a lot of areas.
10:37:27 The areas of somewhere in West Tampa, again not to
10:37:30 mention specifically anything, was inundated with big
10:37:34 crowds, when there are different events.
10:37:37 Some crowds now for ought games because they have lost
10:37:43 on two continents and they are luck toy play in Asia.
10:37:46 But after these things are said and done, you will see
10:37:50 that the city wants to be futuristic in what it needs.
10:37:54 And these events are what makes the city a great place
10:37:56 to live.
10:37:57 All of us have to participate.
10:38:00 But at the same time all of us have to be respectful
10:38:03 of the neighbors in which these events are being held.
10:38:07 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:38:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
10:38:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:38:14 It's amazing.
10:38:15 You mention Gasparilla, and all heck breaks loose.
10:38:19 Let me clarify a couple of things because there's a
10:38:21 lot of confusion out there.
10:38:24 For one, I love Gasparilla.
10:38:26 I have been going to Gasparilla since the late 50s
10:38:30 as a little boy, and all through the 60s and even
10:38:33 all the way to now.
10:38:34 And I still go to Gasparilla and I love it.
10:38:37 There's just something about hearing the bands, and
10:38:39 all the excitement and the cannons going off.
10:38:46 I want that to continue forever.
10:38:48 But at the same time, our residents in Hyde Park and
10:38:52 Soho have been tremendously burdened with this, and
10:38:55 the whole was getting out of control.
10:38:57 And if you don't believe it, I think those pictures
10:38:59 and videos are still open Facebook.
10:39:02 And it's not pretty.
10:39:04 So I think there is a general conclusion, it wasn't my
10:39:08 conclusion, it's the neighborhood's conclusion, that
10:39:11 we have too much alcohol going on in Gasparilla.
10:39:13 The only thing I suggested -- and frankly, I want to
10:39:17 commend our staff, our TPD, and the folks who run
10:39:21 Gasparilla, and many of them are here today.
10:39:24 I want to commend them on responding to last year's
10:39:27 And you put together a good program and I hope it
10:39:29 The only thing I wanted to add to the possibility in
10:39:33 this motion that was pending, carried over from three
10:39:38 weeks ago, was the fact that maybe on a voluntary
10:39:40 basis, on a voluntary basis, okay, that some of those
10:39:44 stores like the two big Publixes that are in the
10:39:47 neighborhood, and the Sweetbay and maybe some of the
10:39:50 smaller stores -- although I know it's harder for
10:39:54 smaller stores, that they might voluntarily curtail
10:39:57 the sale of beer and wine for like a six-hour window
10:40:00 before Gasparilla starts and during Gasparilla.
10:40:02 I think that could cut down on the sale of people who
10:40:06 want to take that beer and wine and haul it through
10:40:08 the streets and drink it along the streets, and go to
10:40:11 the parade and go back into the streets and drink it
10:40:13 again in the alleys and that sort of thing.
10:40:15 That's what happens.
10:40:16 They do it.
10:40:17 And no matter how many officers we have, we can't stop
10:40:22 So my suggestion is maybe we can bring it down a
10:40:25 little bit if they would voluntarily reduce it.
10:40:30 Mr. Chairman, I hear what you are saying.
10:40:31 Think if the letter was going to go out it would go
10:40:35 out from all of us or from anybody who voted for it.
10:40:38 And I think that would be fair because I wouldn't want
10:40:40 to burden you with that.
10:40:42 But I just wanted to get a better explanation.
10:40:45 Like I said, the minute you mention Gasparilla,
10:40:48 there's all kinds of confusion that breaks out.
10:40:50 We have had all these nonprofits here today.
10:40:52 It got confused saying that this letter was somehow
10:40:55 going to stop them from making money on their beer
10:40:59 That's not the case.
10:41:00 So long winded but I think it's important to clarify
10:41:03 where we are today.
10:41:04 I will make a motion with some slight modification
10:41:06 that is we would send out this letter asking the
10:41:10 stores on a voluntary basis if they would consider
10:41:15 curtailing that during that period ever time.
10:41:17 We ask legal to draft it.
10:41:19 So I assume it's legally sufficient.
10:41:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Don't assume.
10:41:27 I take responsibility for that.
10:41:28 I did draft this letter and provided it to City
10:41:31 Mr. Fletcher does have concern that I believe he wants
10:41:34 to raise with it.
10:41:36 This is just for discussion purposes.
10:41:38 I labeled it a draft.
10:41:40 Mr. Fletcher, do you want to?
10:41:43 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I don't have any legal objection
10:41:45 to sending out a letter.
10:41:46 I just got the draft that Marty prepared this morning.
10:41:48 And I would just add that we make it more clear that
10:41:51 it's voluntary, and this is not related to any type of
10:41:54 So adding an additional paragraph I would recommend
10:41:58 adding it at the end.
10:41:59 >> Well, my discussion with Mr. Robbins, they want to
10:42:05 see a more proactive kind of letter go out, pretty
10:42:08 much what you were stating, all the different
10:42:12 Port-o-Lets have been added, and that we encourage
10:42:19 them to support that, and as well to adhere to all of
10:42:21 the legal signs, I guess, underage drinking.
10:42:25 That's more proactive versus saying don't sell it at
10:42:28 Because you are saying to businesses, which is
10:42:30 quote-unquote one of the peak times, don't make a
10:42:37 And I don't drink alcohol per se.
10:42:40 But the issue is that it's not illegal.
10:42:47 You are asking them to do something that they are not
10:42:50 going to do.
10:42:51 And then thirdly, I think the approach recommended by
10:42:53 Mr. Robbins is the more proactive.
10:42:56 As opposed to saying, you know, don't do this on a
10:43:00 voluntary basis.
10:43:02 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry, I believe this was
10:43:06 And I wasn't here.
10:43:07 And I know there was a big public meeting.
10:43:10 Were you able to attend that, that Santiago Corrada
10:43:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I did not.
10:43:16 There is another meeting tonight in Hyde Park Village.
10:43:18 >>MARY MULHERN: In light of that, in light of the
10:43:21 consideration, I think we should just continue this
10:43:24 till after this meeting.
10:43:26 We can hopefully hear from staff about what the
10:43:32 decisions are because I don't know if this request is
10:43:34 coming from people who just happen to live in that
10:43:36 neighborhood or if it's also coming from the
10:43:39 businesses who are already -- I think they closed
10:43:49 their doors for the day if they don't want to sell
10:43:51 beer and alcohol.
10:43:52 But particularly in light of the fact that there's a
10:43:54 meeting tonight, I think we should continue this, to
10:43:59 our next meeting.
10:44:01 And I also had a question.
10:44:04 Oh, Santiago is here.
10:44:06 I'm not sure where this recommendation is coming from.
10:44:09 Is this coming from you?
10:44:10 Or was it someone on council?
10:44:14 Is it coming from council?
10:44:19 So then my --
10:44:25 I know, this is fun, isn't it?
10:44:31 But my question is, this is just addressing, as I
10:44:34 think Chairman Scott has indicated, one of the
10:44:37 problems that have been brought up about the parade
10:44:41 last year, and I think that's another reason to
10:44:46 continue this, because there may be other things that
10:44:48 we might be able to do or include in this, if we are
10:44:52 going to decide to do a letter.
10:44:55 So I would like to continue it for two weeks.
10:44:57 But I would like to hear from you.
10:44:58 I think you will have other recommendations that
10:45:01 council can help with.
10:45:02 >>> Good morning.
10:45:05 Santiago Corrada, neighborhood services administrator.
10:45:08 Let me just clarify about the meeting tonight.
10:45:11 We have had a number of meetings already out in the
10:45:14 Many of our suggestions for improvement have come out
10:45:17 of those meetings that we had a workshop on a couple
10:45:20 of weeks ago.
10:45:20 The meeting tonight is our normally prescheduled
10:45:24 pre-event meeting with the community to let them know
10:45:27 regarding road closures, new improvements, this is our
10:45:32 regularly every-year scheduled pre-event meeting.
10:45:35 So tonight is really not to discuss any more changes.
10:45:38 We already developed quite an exhaustive plan dealing
10:45:41 with a lot of the issues that came up.
10:45:46 The comment about the voluntary letter came up at our
10:45:49 And I think the confusion that arose was some of the
10:45:52 not for profits and why some of them showed up was I
10:45:54 believe some comments were made, well, if we are
10:45:56 looking at the for-profits out there that sell
10:46:02 alcohol, why don't we also look at what we are doing
10:46:05 internally on the parade route with not for profits
10:46:08 selling alcohol.
10:46:10 So I think that's why the red flag came up and some of
10:46:12 those not for profits saying we are also talking about
10:46:15 the route as well, which is wet zoned, and where
10:46:18 charities sell beer.
10:46:19 So --
10:46:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In fact the mayor makes that
10:46:24 decision under the current code.
10:46:25 >>> Under the current code it would come through Land
10:46:27 Development Coordination for temporary wet zoning
10:46:29 approval, yes, sir.
10:46:30 That's correct.
10:46:31 And that change came about a year ago where it was
10:46:34 moved administratively to Land Development
10:46:36 Coordination for temporary wet zones.
10:46:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Was that just for parades?
10:46:44 Or was that done as part of the whole thing?
10:46:47 I'll bet we weren't thinking about Gasparilla.
10:46:52 But I think red flags has maybe been waved for legal a
10:46:56 little bit.
10:46:57 I just think that's another reason to continue this to
10:47:00 our next meeting.
10:47:01 >>> And again thank you for the accolades for all the
10:47:08 work that's gone on.
10:47:09 We have a pretty strong plan.
10:47:11 We have to execute the plan.
10:47:12 I think rather than take real, real drastic measures,
10:47:15 let's see how things work out this year.
10:47:17 There's a lot of commitment on behalf of all of our
10:47:21 The Krewe, EventFest to make this a much better event
10:47:25 for the neighborhoods.
10:47:25 So I think we give it a chance and see how it works
10:47:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So you are saying sending a letter
10:47:33 may not be necessary?
10:47:35 >>> It's council's prerogative.
10:47:36 I would wait to see what we do because we will be out
10:47:39 in those neighborhoods enforcing open containers, all
10:47:42 kinds of things that our Tampa Police Department has
10:47:45 committed to do in those neighborhoods, and with a
10:47:48 redeployment of Tampa police officers off of the route
10:47:51 into the neighborhoods that were seriously impacted by
10:47:53 some of the things that are on Facebook and are out on
10:47:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm more than willing to, because I
10:48:00 haven't been to those public meetings, and I probably
10:48:03 won't be able to go to that one tonight, I had the
10:48:07 opportunity to speak with legal and with Santiago
10:48:09 about this letter, I would be probably ready to vote
10:48:13 on it at our next meeting.
10:48:16 But I would like to hear from other council members,
10:48:21 if people are supporting the idea in general.
10:48:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: One of the things that came out at
10:48:28 our workshop was that Courier City has not been
10:48:33 involved in any of the conversations about Gasparilla,
10:48:36 but they are totally impacted by it particularly after
10:48:39 the parade when Soho becomes inundated with people.
10:48:43 And I think that there is going to be conversation
10:48:48 about that.
10:48:49 So perhaps it would be valuable to hear back how we
10:48:54 are going to address that, and how we are going to
10:48:57 communicate with the shop owners about their ability
10:48:59 to rent port-a-potties, and I'm really glad that Mr.
10:49:06 Dingfelder clarified what he was doing, which is not
10:49:09 Draconian it.
10:49:11 It was a suggestion to get a grip.
10:49:14 I mean, what we were all confronted with after last
10:49:17 year's Gasparilla, we needed to get a grip.
10:49:20 He worked with the community, with the people
10:49:22 involved, and I think that there is value in perhaps
10:49:25 continuing this to the next council meeting or one
10:49:29 after that to hear back how we are going to work with
10:49:31 Courier City.
10:49:32 I think this more public conversation we have about
10:49:34 how much more serious the City of Tampa is in
10:49:38 deploying resources to make sure that this is a
10:49:42 peaceful and not crazy celebration, the better it is
10:49:45 for the community, because that message a needs to get
10:49:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And a Mr. Walter Crumbley was
10:49:53 invited to tonight's meeting so he has been invited.
10:49:56 He was added to our distribution list, and we hope
10:49:58 that he will come out tonight.
10:50:00 >> Councilman Dingfelder.
10:50:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You know, I think Gasparilla is
10:50:07 all about fun, it's all about cooperation, and in the
10:50:17 spirit of -- in that spirit, in the spirit of fun and
10:50:21 cooperation, and also in reliance of what Mr. Corrada
10:50:27 said, what the Gasparilla folks, the organizers and
10:50:32 crew said, I'll go ahead and withdraw the letter at
10:50:36 this time.
10:50:38 I would like to hear what the folks at the meeting had
10:50:40 to say.
10:50:43 I'm hopeful that the programs that are being
10:50:48 implemented will work and will improve the situation.
10:50:53 So we don't need to bring it to a head.
10:50:55 And I will just go ahead and withdraw that.
10:50:57 I think the discussion has been extremely helpful,
10:51:00 because the attention that it has brought to this
10:51:03 issue, I think, will make everybody more responsible
10:51:06 and more involved in these important matters.
10:51:10 And this does affect many, many neighborhoods
10:51:14 throughout the city.
10:51:14 >> Thank you very much.
10:51:16 If there is a letter, I will move that all seven of us
10:51:18 sign it.
10:51:20 [ Laughter ]
10:51:21 Thank you.
10:51:25 Okay, thank you very much.
10:51:26 >>MARY MULHERN: I kind of made a motion to continue
10:51:29 it but I'll withdraw my motion.
10:51:31 >> Okay.
10:51:35 Item 83.
10:51:36 >>> Mr. Chairman, there was a second part to that item
10:51:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I didn't see it.
10:51:48 >>> Santiago Corrada, neighborhood services director.
10:51:54 There was a second part regarding the financial
10:51:56 structure of the Gasparilla events, the children's
10:52:00 parade and the pirate invasion and parade.
10:52:02 And I want to introduce Mr. Darrell Stephani, the
10:52:06 president of EventFest, to speak from the organizers
10:52:10 And then if there's any questions regarding the city
10:52:12 side I will be glad to answer those.
10:52:13 >>> Thank you, Santiago. Council, Darrell Stephani,
10:52:20 EventFest, Cass Street, suite 110.
10:52:25 I understand after our workshop finished a couple
10:52:27 weeks ago there was a question that came up about the
10:52:29 financial structure.
10:52:30 I tried to reach back to you.
10:52:32 I didn't get a chance to discuss or try to find out
10:52:34 exactly what you were questioning.
10:52:36 But first of all I want to thank council and the City
10:52:40 of Tampa, who is one of our contributing in-kind
10:52:46 The Gasparilla event has been going on since 1904.
10:52:51 Currently the budget that I have some control over is
10:52:55 about $3.3 million.
10:52:58 That includes in-kind contributions by our sponsors
10:53:04 that may provide a service, advertising, such as Clear
10:53:07 Channel radio, the "The Tampa Tribune" are great
10:53:09 sponsors, have been with us for quite some time.
10:53:12 It certainly includes Ye Mystic Krewe of Gasparilla
10:53:16 which we wouldn't be doing Gasparilla without their
10:53:18 support and their financial help that they do each and
10:53:20 every year.
10:53:22 Certainly, the City of Tampa provides in-kind services
10:53:25 to the event, clean-up and obviously some of the
10:53:28 security, some of the neighborhood security,
10:53:31 et cetera.
10:53:32 So all of our sponsors for Gasparilla are very, very
10:53:36 Gasparilla is an event that has the budget that I
10:53:42 mentioned but it doesn't make money every year.
10:53:44 In fact if you look at it, it actually loses money if
10:53:48 you look at it from a standpoint of profit-loss.
10:53:51 I'm very proud to stand in front of you today to say
10:53:53 that I have had a role in this for a number of years.
10:53:56 Ye Mystic Krewe of Gasparilla is my client.
10:53:59 And I'm honored to have the role that I have.
10:54:02 But I'm extremely honored that in all the years I have
10:54:05 ever been associated with Gasparilla, the Krewe of
10:54:08 Gasparilla has asked one thing of us -- make it
10:54:13 Make the event better than it was last year.
10:54:16 And we have trade to do that.
10:54:18 We have grown the event.
10:54:19 We have added the children's Gasparilla extravaganza
10:54:24 which has been borne out of the growth and the success
10:54:28 of the Gasparilla pirate fest event that has been
10:54:31 historic invasion parade day event as you know. So it
10:54:37 has continued to be funded by private dollars.
10:54:39 We are so grateful for the sponsors, and we certainly
10:54:42 would always ask council to do what you can do to
10:54:45 recognize the sponsors.
10:54:47 McDonald's is our title sponsor of the children's
10:54:50 Gasparilla parade this year.
10:54:51 Kaspers does great things in this community.
10:54:53 We are so grateful they have stepped up to be a title
10:54:56 sponsor and keep that element or that part of
10:54:58 Gasparilla moving ahead.
10:55:00 We have some other announcements on spore sonship that
10:55:02 will be coming out in the next couple of weeks.
10:55:04 But it takes some dollars to put on free events.
10:55:09 I told one of our media questionnaires a couple weeks
10:55:13 ago, the free events are not free.
10:55:15 And I don't mean that just in passing.
10:55:21 Large community events take some resources for sounds
10:55:26 and stage and entertainment, for the floats, for the
10:55:28 beads, et cetera.
10:55:30 So it is a major, major business.
10:55:32 It is now something that is an event, the three
10:55:34 events, the children's Gasparilla parade, the
10:55:36 Gasparilla PirateFest, and the Gasparilla Voyage, are
10:55:40 events that we work on year round.
10:55:42 And it's a great community celebration, has been long
10:55:45 before I ever got involved with it, and we are proud
10:55:48 of what we have been able to add to it and the way we
10:55:50 have been able to grow it.
10:55:52 We certainly are not proud of the behavior of some in
10:55:54 the neighborhood.
10:55:55 We have talked an awful lot about the behaviors of a
10:55:58 few hundred people.
10:56:00 And lie forward to police and city staff that we have
10:56:03 worked with, countless hours this year, in addressing
10:56:07 some of those irresponsible behaviors, because
10:56:09 Gasparilla is a great event.
10:56:10 We talk too much about the behaviors of a couple
10:56:13 people that appear on YouTube or something being an
10:56:17 Gasparilla is not a license to be an idiot in this
10:56:19 town, never has been, and it won't be.
10:56:21 So we are excited that that's going to be dealt with.
10:56:24 We are not particularly excited that somebody may get
10:56:26 arrested from it and have that stain on their record.
10:56:28 But as a community, we need to respect others.
10:56:33 We need to respect the property of people that are
10:56:36 surrounding an event site, whether it be at the same,
10:56:40 as councilman Miranda mentions or if it's down on
10:56:42 Bayshore Boulevard.
10:56:44 Gasparilla accounts for a $46 million impact to
10:56:48 Hillsborough County as the 2007 research pointed out.
10:56:53 We are exceedingly proud of that as I know the Krewe
10:56:55 of Gasparilla and all the sponsors are.
10:56:58 And we are looking forward to doing it again in 2010
10:57:01 and making it the best Gasparilla yet.
10:57:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Darrell.
10:57:07 >> Any other questions?
10:57:11 No other questions.
10:57:11 Thank you very much.
10:57:12 Let's take up item 91.
10:57:14 I think this requires a vote on item 91 so we can get
10:57:21 those persons out of here.
10:57:22 That was a motion, that was a zoning hearing, as I
10:57:27 Is that right, Mr. Shelby?
10:57:29 It was a zoning hearing?
10:57:31 And I reviewed the documentation from that.
10:57:35 However, I have to disclose on the record that I had
10:57:39 conversation with Mr. Nuckles on Monday relative to
10:57:43 this issue.
10:57:44 And I did not know that it was coming before council,
10:57:48 had been before counseling as a zoning issue.
10:57:51 And his request was my support of this item with the
10:57:55 understanding that this was CDBG funding dollars.
10:58:00 Well, in reviewing this, there's two components.
10:58:03 One is the zoning part of it.
10:58:04 The other part is they are getting CBDG funding as I
10:58:10 You have to separate the two.
10:58:12 And I was kind of misled in terms as to the zoning
10:58:17 There is a component, there is funding.
10:58:19 This is the zoning issue.
10:58:21 And there are those who are opposed to this item so I
10:58:27 am not going to support that because of that.
10:58:29 However, I can support the CDBG funding in terms of --
10:58:45 we need to come back.
10:58:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, if I can.
10:58:53 Let me see just if there is anybody who wishes to
10:58:56 address the subject of this ex parte communication.
10:58:59 Can I see by show of hands if anybody wants to address
10:59:02 this from the audience?
10:59:03 I see nobody.
10:59:05 So, Mr. Chairman, with that disclosure --
10:59:08 Well, generally I don't talk with anyone about zoning
10:59:10 issues, and that's just a practice I carried over from
10:59:14 coming from the county commission.
10:59:17 You stay on the safe side.
10:59:19 So he Rayed that issue at a meeting we had on Monday
10:59:22 And I did not know it was a zoning issue because I was
10:59:25 out of town when you all took this up at the last
10:59:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I appreciate your disclosure,
10:59:30 Mr. Chairman.
10:59:30 That's appropriate.
10:59:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question on the motion.
10:59:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I want to make an inquiry.
10:59:35 You did also state you had an opportunity to review
10:59:38 the record.
10:59:38 >> Yes.
10:59:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Ms. Mulhern, you were also not
10:59:43 Are you prepared to vote today as well?
10:59:44 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone)
10:59:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The public hearing is closed.
11:00:00 And if you had an opportunity to review the record, if
11:00:04 you are prepared to vote then we should go forward.
11:00:06 If you are not prepared to vote --
11:00:08 >>MARY MULHERN: I have to say that I am not prepared
11:00:10 to vote for this.
11:00:11 Because I have not had the opportunity to review the
11:00:15 And I'm very sorry to have to say that.
11:00:23 If there's still the request for a full council.
11:00:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It would be my suggestion that
11:00:29 council --
11:00:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Or we could come back later.
11:00:32 I could review it over lunch if that would be better.
11:00:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do it this afternoon.
11:00:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'll be late coming back.
11:00:40 I won't be back till probably after two.
11:00:42 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll be here all afternoon.
11:00:45 So we could all a be here.
11:00:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, my suggestion --
11:00:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'll be here next week.
11:00:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you want to set it for the
11:00:55 evening meeting of the 12th, for just the vote, that
11:00:57 could be appropriate.
11:00:58 That would be appropriate to do that.
11:01:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:01:05 Do we need to ask the applicant?
11:01:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, actually, under council's
11:01:10 rules, it could be continued till the next time that
11:01:13 council is fully here.
11:01:14 So --
11:01:17 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll move to continue.
11:01:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you wish to make it the first
11:01:21 item at 6 p.m. on the 12th of November?
11:01:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
11:01:27 >> Moved by Councilwoman Saul-Sena, seconded by
11:01:31 councilman Dingfelder.
11:01:34 All in favor?
11:01:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you very much.
11:01:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We move to item 83.
11:01:38 And Chip Fletcher, this is regarding the hearing
11:01:43 officer process, which I requested that he distribute
11:01:50 that information to council early on.
11:01:53 Mr. Fletcher?
11:01:54 Somebody from his office is here?
11:01:56 Let's move on to item 84.
11:02:04 Item 84.
11:02:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Need to receive and file it.
11:02:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman, I would like to move
11:02:12 that we put this on our agenda in 30 days, so December
11:02:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second on item 84.
11:02:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
11:02:23 All in favor?
11:02:25 Item 85.
11:02:26 >>> Robin McKenney, legal department, here to
11:02:39 present with you the ordinance language that you
11:02:40 requested at the October 1st meeting regarding an
11:02:42 amendment to the human rights ordinance to add gender
11:02:45 identity or expression of protected class.
11:02:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:02:55 Here again, the ramifications of this, I don't really
11:02:59 quite gather.
11:03:00 If it's an individual that she wants to be a he or she
11:03:05 wants to be a he, whatever you have to do I have no
11:03:07 problem with it.
11:03:08 But if it's an individual that's not going to do that,
11:03:10 and if it's an individual that's going to sit in a
11:03:13 workplace in this city, and today it's a he and
11:03:15 tomorrow it's a she, then I do have a problem with it.
11:03:19 In other words, the dress or whatever.
11:03:23 So which way are we doing this?
11:03:25 >>> Councilman Miranda, the purpose of the ordinance
11:03:29 change is to add this protection for individuals who
11:03:34 are making the gender transition from one gender to
11:03:38 another gender.
11:03:39 >> That's fine.
11:03:40 I agree with that.
11:03:41 However, when you say the gender transition, is that
11:03:43 on a daily basis or for life?
11:03:47 >> Well with, it's a life transition.
11:03:48 >> Then I have no problem with it but I don't want
11:03:51 somebody to be Tom and tomorrow be Teresa on an
11:03:55 ongoing base nice city government.
11:03:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the issue pretty much addresses,
11:04:01 so I can be clear, the issue is to address
11:04:03 discrimination and not afford the person to be cross
11:04:07 dressing, as I understand.
11:04:09 The issue is discrimination.
11:04:11 >>> The issue is discrimination.
11:04:14 This is the human rights ordinance.
11:04:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I understand that.
11:04:17 I want to know is this issue relative to
11:04:20 Is this issue but discrimination?
11:04:22 Make sure that no persons in the City of Tampa are
11:04:25 discriminated against.
11:04:28 >>> Yes.
11:04:29 The purpose of this ordinance --
11:04:31 >> According to race, sex, gender discrimination.
11:04:34 >>> That's correct.
11:04:35 >> I want to make sure of that.
11:04:36 >>> Discrimination protection ordinance.
11:04:38 >> And that's the same question he raised.
11:04:41 He just asked it in a different way.
11:04:43 Councilman Dingfelder.
11:04:44 Then Councilwoman.
11:04:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:04:53 I think it's clear, and Mr. Chairman said it and I
11:04:57 think Mr. Miranda said it, the government's role is to
11:04:59 ensure there's no discrimination against anybody,
11:05:02 whether or not they are Tom, Teresa, back and forth,
11:05:04 or what have you.
11:05:06 And that's what this ordinance does.
11:05:11 We already have this ordinance on the books to protect
11:05:14 everybody else, as to race, emergency, sexual
11:05:18 orientation, that sort of thing.
11:05:20 But this one takes it a little bit further, tone sure
11:05:24 that there are human rights for everybody.
11:05:27 Therefore, I'll be glad to read and move the
11:05:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:05:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move an ordinance of the city of
11:05:35 Tampa, Florida amending chapter is the of the City of
11:05:36 Tampa code amending section 12-2 by adding a new
11:05:40 definition for gender identity or expression amending
11:05:42 section 12-16 (2) purpose amending section 12-226
11:05:48 unlawful employment practices, amending section 12-36,
11:05:52 amending section 12-62-2, purpose: Amending section
11:05:57 12-64, unlawful practices, amending section 12-66-C,
11:06:02 exemptions, amending section 12-oh 71-2, purpose,
11:06:07 amending section 12-81, sale or rental, amending
11:06:10 section is the-83.
11:06:12 Residential real estate related transaction ass.
11:06:16 Amending section 12-846789 brokerage services amending
11:06:19 section 12-10-E.
11:06:22 Housing, and amending section 12-101-G housing by
11:06:27 adding gender identity or expression as a protected
11:06:29 class to these sections, providing for severability,
11:06:32 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
11:06:35 providing an effective date.
11:06:36 And the last thing I want to do is thank the members
11:06:38 of the human rights commission, the city human rights
11:06:43 commission that patiently put this together, and been
11:06:46 waiting all day for us to get to this issue.
11:06:48 And I also want to commend I think Blue Cross Blue
11:06:51 Shield folks as a corporate entity to have the courage
11:06:56 to step forward and support this important ordinance.
11:07:00 Thank you.
11:07:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Again I just want to be perfectly
11:07:04 clear because this vote is for a long time.
11:07:10 I'm not looking to see that same person change over
11:07:14 and change back on a daily basis.
11:07:16 If they so choose to, if they want to make their
11:07:19 change permanent, I have nothing to do but help them
11:07:23 out and see their psychiatric problems are that was
11:07:27 addressed earlier.
11:07:31 I believe that's what he said.
11:07:32 So on that part I have no problem.
11:07:34 I would have a problem that today I'm Charlie and
11:07:38 tomorrow I'm Charlene.
11:07:40 That I would have a problem because that creates an
11:07:42 enormous pressure on the workplace wherever you are
11:07:45 >>> If I understand your question, I believe it is.
11:07:51 Does this language specifically address what you
11:07:55 describe as cross dressing?
11:07:56 It does not address that.
11:07:58 It addresses the term gender identity or expression as
11:08:03 defined as gender-related identity, appearance,
11:08:07 expression, or behavior of an individual regardless of
11:08:09 the individual's assigned sex at birth.
11:08:13 That's the definition.
11:08:14 And that would be the legal standard by which any
11:08:18 questions would be measured.
11:08:19 So it would be up to a judge if it came up or
11:08:24 something like that to determine how that conduct fits
11:08:28 under that definition.
11:08:29 But the purpose of us coming before you today to amend
11:08:32 the ordinance is to protect those individuals who are
11:08:35 subject to discrimination because they are undergoing
11:08:39 a transition from one gender to the other.
11:08:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I believe what you said is
11:08:47 correct, that they are in transition themselves, I
11:08:49 have no problems.
11:08:50 But I just don't want disruption of the workplace.
11:08:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
11:08:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:08:56 I'm very proud of the human rights commission in the
11:08:59 City of Tampa for considering an ordinance which is
11:09:02 seeking to combat discrimination.
11:09:04 I recognize that passage of an ordinance is different
11:09:07 from rooting prejudice out of people's hearts.
11:09:10 That takes a little longer.
11:09:12 But it's a first step and I'm pleased that we are
11:09:14 considering this today.
11:09:15 And I have in my lifetime seen a number of prejudices
11:09:21 fall wayside as we as a community and country become
11:09:25 broader minded and I'm really encouraged by this.
11:09:28 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Ma'am, did you mention that
11:09:32 cross dressing is not covered in this?
11:09:39 >>> Cross dressing as I understand it is when an
11:09:41 individual wears the clothing of the other gender.
11:09:47 An argument could be made that that falls under this
11:09:53 But the purpose of it is to protect individuals who
11:09:57 are making that transition, and they are typically
11:10:00 under the supervision of a medical person when they
11:10:02 are doing so.
11:10:06 If it were the desire of council to narrow the
11:10:09 definition some way could be done.
11:10:12 So the language as it stands today is the language
11:10:17 that is typically used in these situations.
11:10:21 It would be up to a court or deciding entity to
11:10:24 determine exactly which conduct is covered.
11:10:28 I'm trying to answer your question.
11:10:29 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Well, I cannot support this the
11:10:33 way it is, ma'am, for the simple fact if a gentleman
11:10:35 dresses up as a woman, does he have a right to go into
11:10:38 a lady's room?
11:10:40 A lady's restroom?
11:10:44 I think this is going to present a lot of problems.
11:10:46 It's going to keep the judges very, very busy.
11:10:49 That's my opinion.
11:10:49 >>> I'm sorry?
11:10:54 >> If you can spell this out definitely, then I can
11:10:57 support it but I cannot support it the way it is.
11:10:59 It's going to be legal problems after legal and we
11:11:02 have enough problems.
11:11:03 >>> It is a difficult issue to address, I understand.
11:11:07 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.
11:11:13 I think what I am hearing from council and what Ms.
11:11:17 McKinney is trying to describe is the intent, for
11:11:20 the record, the intent of this ordinance would be to
11:11:23 protect those individuals who are making a gender
11:11:27 It is not the intent to cover folks that choose on
11:11:31 occasion to dress in the other gender's clothing.
11:11:34 And if you would like between first and second reading
11:11:37 we can certainly make that clarification.
11:11:39 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.
11:11:42 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Because I think it's very clear
11:11:44 that's what we are trying to do here.
11:11:45 Personally, my opinion is that it's not necessary,
11:11:48 that it's covered the way it is drafted today.
11:11:50 But if council's preference is to make that change
11:11:53 between first and second reading we can attempt to do
11:11:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
11:11:59 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to support the ordinance
11:12:02 as it is, and say that years ago, three of your --
11:12:08 your three city-wide City Council people might not be
11:12:12 women, and we might not be able to wear suits that
11:12:17 look like men's.
11:12:18 So I wish that they would make women's suits more like
11:12:21 men's suits.
11:12:22 I think that this is not a worry about cross dressing.
11:12:27 It's not a big problem for a workplace.
11:12:30 I think that I wouldn't worry about that here.
11:12:34 And adds a little interest to the day.
11:12:40 Especially if someone on this council -- I don't mean
11:12:44 to make light of it.
11:12:46 I think our Constitution starts with the fact that we
11:12:49 hold the truth to be self-evident that all men are
11:12:52 created equal, and that includes women, and people of
11:12:55 every gender, with whatever gender identity.
11:12:59 So I think that this is an excellent ordinance.
11:13:04 I thank not just the human rights council but also our
11:13:07 attorney who worked so hard on this.
11:13:10 And I think it does make Tampa be one of those
11:13:14 progressive cities where everyone wants to live.
11:13:16 And it also -- we saw what happened in another city
11:13:21 nearby where a great employee had to leave and find
11:13:26 another job because of a decision to have a sex change
11:13:30 So I'm fine with this ordinance the way it is.
11:13:34 And I don't think that we should add more
11:13:36 discrimination back into it.
11:13:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Fletcher, you are going to bring
11:13:52 back the amended language?
11:13:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I don't think that's necessary.
11:13:55 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Just to be clear.
11:13:57 City attorney.
11:13:57 I think the way it's drafted within the definition you
11:13:59 have now, it is clear that it only covers that
11:14:02 transition from one gender to the other.
11:14:05 So I don't personally believe that it is legally
11:14:07 necessary to make that change to provide the intent
11:14:10 that has been articulated by council.
11:14:12 If council desires that comfort, we can do that.
11:14:16 That would require, I think, a motion by council for
11:14:19 to us make that change between first and second
11:14:22 But I don't believe it's necessary to do what council
11:14:24 has articulated you all intend to do.
11:14:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to make that an
11:14:32 amendment to this had motion.
11:14:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If the city attorney tells us that
11:14:36 in his opinion that is not needed, the amendment would
11:14:43 be moot, I believe.
11:14:43 >> I would agree.
11:14:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And the issue is one of
11:14:53 That's the bigger issue.
11:14:57 We need to make sure we understand the issue is what
11:15:00 And I don't support discrimination in any form.
11:15:03 And I will say to all of us, we have laws in regard to
11:15:13 discrimination, but we do have them, and Councilwoman
11:15:16 Saul-Sena, law does not change people's hearts.
11:15:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's a start.
11:15:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Laws do not change people's hearts.
11:15:27 It forces people to go underground or covert with the
11:15:30 way they feel.
11:15:31 Laws are not change.
11:15:33 >>GWEN MILLER: I'm ready for the vote because I think
11:15:36 the ordinance explains everything that we want it to
11:15:39 And I don't think we need to make no changes to it.
11:15:42 >> There's a motion.
11:15:44 It's been moved and seconded.
11:15:45 Moved by councilman Dingfelder, seconded by
11:15:48 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
11:15:49 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:15:52 >> No.
11:15:53 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano voting no.
11:15:56 Second reading of the ordinance will be held November
11:15:58 19th at 9:30 a.m.
11:16:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 86.
11:16:02 Mr. Fletcher.
11:16:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think that's tied to -- what is
11:16:15 Item 89.
11:16:21 The agenda item for some reason -- in a, no, no, I'm
11:16:26 sorry, I'm sorry, I'm off.
11:16:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 86 has to do with the registration of
11:16:31 those properties or foreclosures.
11:16:36 >>> We have reviewed this.
11:16:40 We met with the administrative staff on the issue of
11:16:42 creating a registry for foreclosed properties.
11:16:45 We don't have any legal objections to moving forward.
11:16:48 We would recommend a few differences with what the
11:16:53 Hillsborough County ordinance has in place.
11:16:57 One, we would want to make sure that it covers all
11:16:59 foreclosed properties.
11:17:02 There is a smaller subset.
11:17:03 We believe based on our need within the city bee need
11:17:06 to include all foreclosed properties.
11:17:08 And the party doing the foreclosing would be
11:17:11 responsible for registering the vacant property.
11:17:13 That's consistent with the Hillsborough County
11:17:16 The types of things that would be clarified that need
11:17:19 to be maintained are knowing, keeping clear of trash
11:17:23 and debris, swimming pools, that's consistent with the
11:17:29 Hillsborough County ordinance, and we would create a
11:17:30 period of time probably 60 days in which these
11:17:32 properties would be registered, and the other
11:17:35 additional pieces we would want to make sure that the
11:17:39 ordinance provides the authority to contract with the
11:17:44 private party to do this, if the administration
11:17:47 determines that's the appropriate way to manage the
11:17:49 workload of this additional work.
11:17:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
11:17:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I commend Hillsborough County for
11:17:56 stepping forward on this.
11:17:58 And I think we should move forward on it as well with
11:18:00 great haste.
11:18:02 We all know that there is foreclosed properties out
11:18:06 They are blighting the neighborhoods that they are in,
11:18:09 because the yards are getting overgrown, the pools
11:18:11 aren't getting maintained, et cetera.
11:18:13 And I think that this will help.
11:18:19 And it's sort of a public-private partnership to
11:18:23 address this problem.
11:18:25 The only other suggestion, I made it last time, Chip,
11:18:29 and I am going to modify it slightly, I think it
11:18:32 should probably have about a five-year sunset, just
11:18:34 so -- foreclosures are a huge issue right now.
11:18:37 But five years from now they might not be as huge an
11:18:41 issue and I would like some future council to address
11:18:44 So that would be the only thing I would add to
11:18:46 whatever you have said already, Chip.
11:18:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I agree with a lot but towards the
11:18:52 end I disagree.
11:18:53 Because foreclosures are not going to end.
11:18:57 And you only stop something when you have zero.
11:18:59 You are never going to have zero crime.
11:19:01 You are never going to have zero people not speeding.
11:19:04 So therefore you must have a police force, you must
11:19:06 have enforcement of these issues.
11:19:08 And today, Hillsborough County had over 6700
11:19:12 foreclosed homes including the City of Tampa up from
11:19:15 about 1200.
11:19:17 In 2003.
11:19:19 So what we are saying, Mr. Scott, the chairman brought
11:19:22 that up and I seconded it originally, it's certainly
11:19:25 on the right track and we should certainly prevail and
11:19:28 do the same thing the county is doing just like Mr.
11:19:30 Dingfelder spoke earlier on, to make sure that the
11:19:33 neighborhoods are not drawn down by one, two, or
11:19:36 sometimes more than two, not only in the neighborhood
11:19:39 but in the single block.
11:19:41 There's where the code enforcement comes in.
11:19:45 It's easy to find out who the lenders are if you know
11:19:49 how to do it and you check it out and you start
11:19:53 sending them the monthly charge for that and do the
11:19:56 So is it difficult?
11:19:58 Is it time consuming?
11:19:59 >> With that, I will support that, and I am going to
11:20:04 move that you bring this back, what, 30 days you can
11:20:07 do it, you think?
11:20:08 >> We can do it in 30 days, yes, sir.
11:20:09 >> In 30 days.
11:20:11 She has the gavel.
11:20:14 Let me put the motion on the floor.
11:20:15 I want to move the recommendation you made.
11:20:18 However I am not for sunsetting, Mr. Dingfelder.
11:20:21 I think that council can always bring back anything it
11:20:23 wants to at a future date.
11:20:25 As Mr. Councilman said you will always have
11:20:29 I think this is a good program, and as well it would
11:20:31 generate some revenue for the city.
11:20:33 So I'm going to move that with those recommendations
11:20:37 changes that you made.
11:20:37 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:20:39 We have a question on the motion.
11:20:40 Mr. Caetano.
11:20:40 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Fletcher, how does this
11:20:44 cover a home in a community development district where
11:20:46 you have a homeowners association that controls?
11:20:51 Do you have the right to go into a CDD or HOA and tell
11:20:56 somebody to clean up their yard?
11:20:59 >>> Generally we do, yes, sir.
11:21:01 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: You do?
11:21:03 >>> To clarify, the CDD or HOA generally has more
11:21:07 strict standards, so generally it's not an issue.
11:21:10 And the HOA or CDD will be initiating their own
11:21:13 enforcement before the city gets involved.
11:21:15 That is typical.
11:21:16 >> A lot of these community development districts are
11:21:19 underfunded, and they are maintaining that they don't
11:21:23 have the money to take care of those yards.
11:21:30 And to repair the streetlights and things like that.
11:21:32 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second on the
11:21:36 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
11:21:38 Opposed, Nay.
11:21:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:21:43 That comes back in 30 days, right?
11:21:45 Item 87.
11:21:48 This is the settlement agreement.
11:21:51 87 and 88.
11:21:52 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:21:54 Before I get started on my presentation I am going to
11:21:56 hand to the clerk a clean copy of the cheer channel
11:22:02 agreement, and a substituted version of the CBS
11:22:07 agreement with all of the attachments associated with
11:22:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Julia thought she was going to
11:22:14 have ten children before this was all over.
11:22:25 >>JULIA COLE: What you have in front of you are
11:22:26 proposed settlement agreements between the City of
11:22:27 Tampa and the Clear Channel incorporated, and the City
11:22:32 of Tampa and CBS remitting to our billboard sign
11:22:36 issue, which has been ongoing for many years.
11:22:38 And I have given City Council several presentations on
11:22:41 I probably provided you hundreds of memorandums.
11:22:44 I am not going to go through all of that information.
11:22:47 I do want to remind you that I spent as a result of
11:22:49 our last conversation a time line of what the city has
11:22:52 done in relationship to billboards, which has been
11:22:55 part of previous presentations that are given, but
11:22:57 unless there's questions I am not going to get into
11:23:00 As of our last meeting, the legal department called
11:23:06 together a public information session W we did last
11:23:09 week in the Mascotte room in which I requested members
11:23:12 of T.H.A.N., the neighborhoods, other interested
11:23:15 parties, as well as the representatives of Clear
11:23:17 Channel and CBS, to discuss the terms and settlement
11:23:21 agreements, gave the same brief history that I have
11:23:26 gone with City Council, and put this entire issue into
11:23:30 As a result of that meeting -- and I sent the memo out
11:23:33 to City Council on November 3rd indicating the
11:23:35 changes to the agreement, and for the record, the
11:23:38 agreement that I had handed to the clerk for CBS has
11:23:42 made the exact same concessions, so both agreements on
11:23:47 the usual you are identical, but concessions were made
11:23:49 as a result of their conversations, and I think you
11:23:51 heard from members of T.H.A.N. who were at the
11:23:53 meetings, obviously the issue of billboard is not the
11:23:57 most favored subject in the city.
11:24:00 We have billboards and we have to deal with the issues
11:24:02 we have and we have pending litigation publicly and
11:24:07 privately as toe where we stand on that litigation.
11:24:09 But quickly, the stipulations that were made and were
11:24:12 placed as part of those agreements are as follows.
11:24:17 For signs that are relocated onto what I call local
11:24:21 roads, which not state and federal highways that are
11:24:25 typically dealt with through Florida Department of
11:24:27 Transportation regulation, put in place a linear
11:24:33 separation between signs, which is the same as the one
11:24:37 for FDOT regulations on FAP roadways which is
11:24:41 currently 1,000 feet, and that is on the same side of
11:24:44 the street, not on both sides of the street.
11:24:46 I think I heard some comments.
11:24:47 I do want to clarify that issue.
11:24:51 In addition, we have amended the provision for
11:24:53 relocation of science on those local roads, as I'm
11:24:57 calling them, to -- they may not be relocated to
11:25:02 within 300 feet of residentially zoned property, as
11:25:06 measured on both sides of the street.
11:25:07 And that was a big issue that had come up through
11:25:10 these discussions, and that was a concession that was
11:25:12 made from those companies.
11:25:18 In addition we have amended the upgraded sign
11:25:20 We went through an entire discussion of upgraded funds
11:25:23 and I am not going to get much further into that
11:25:25 except to say what is in the agreement is intended to
11:25:27 match what we might do at some point in the future on
11:25:32 digital signs or what's in the code, the sign codes
11:25:35 But there is a provision in there for limitations on
11:25:40 upgrades of permitted signs in the Westshore
11:25:42 commercial overlay district to -- that would only be
11:25:46 allowed, if it's allowed on this sign code for
11:25:49 specific roadways.
11:25:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ms. Cole, let me just interrupt.
11:25:53 I wonder if council had any questions.
11:25:55 You all have briefed us previously, discussed this
11:25:59 issue more than one time over the last two years.
11:26:06 I guess my issue is, does council have any questions?
11:26:09 If you don't have any questions, let's get on with it.
11:26:11 >>JULIA COLE: I will just indicate that it is the
11:26:14 legal department's recommendation we go ahead and
11:26:17 approve these agreements.
11:26:18 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: One other point, there is no
11:26:23 right in these agreements for any additional
11:26:26 While they do speak to digital billboards in the way
11:26:28 we described, to make sure there are no rights,
11:26:31 otherwise it does not grant any rights, and just about
11:26:35 anyway affect our discussion regarding digital
11:26:38 billboard ordinance coming down the road other than
11:26:39 the option period that we previously discussed.
11:26:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
11:26:46 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Chairman.
11:26:51 I have a couple of problems with this still.
11:26:57 Let me just start with the question.
11:26:58 On page 14, the zone after zone, the underlying
11:27:09 portion on my --
11:27:13 >>JULIA COLE: Your page 14.
11:27:15 >> Nothing shall be construed to permit technology --
11:27:20 that is one of the references to electronic signs that
11:27:23 I had asked about at the last meeting.
11:27:28 Why is that paragraph in there?
11:27:30 If electronic signs are not permitted under the code
11:27:32 now, why do we need to have this paragraph in there?
11:27:35 I just wanted to know the rationale for putting that
11:27:38 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Because there is reference in a
11:27:42 couple of places to the option period, to the addition
11:27:48 take that just got added in about the no electronic
11:27:53 message boards in certain areas of the Westshore
11:27:55 We thought it was necessary to additionally emphasize
11:27:59 that any types of specific materials, or technology
11:28:04 for billboards, be controlled by city code, that you
11:28:07 all adopt legislatively, not in this settlement
11:28:11 If it was silent there could potentially be an
11:28:14 ambiguity that could be used in the future even though
11:28:16 it wasn't the intent of the parties today.
11:28:23 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm okay with that then.
11:28:25 That brings up another question for me.
11:28:27 And I understand and am glad that the Westshore
11:28:30 overlay district was satisfied with this.
11:28:32 I'm glad for them.
11:28:34 But I don't understand why they should be singled out.
11:28:39 >>JULIA COLE: That was a provision that was submitted
11:28:42 to us by Clear Channel as part of their conversations
11:28:46 and discussions.
11:28:49 We, as a result of that, as Mr. Fletcher mentioned,
11:28:51 wanted to make it very clear within the confines of
11:28:53 that particular provision that this is not intended to
11:28:57 permit those types of signs, but just limitation on if
11:29:00 they are allowed where they could go, so that was
11:29:03 really something that came directly from Clear Channel
11:29:07 and their representatives, and was also agreed to by
11:29:09 CBS and has been put into the agreement with the
11:29:11 limitation that Mr. Fletcher just described.
11:29:14 >>MARY MULHERN: So is it just that section that is
11:29:18 satisfying that?
11:29:21 I have a problem with fairness here.
11:29:23 Because we are singling out one neighborhood.
11:29:26 And I agree with the idea, and I would like -- I would
11:29:33 agree with protecting that district.
11:29:34 But I think other districts need to be protected, too.
11:29:37 >>> If I may.
11:29:44 In the abstract this would be something more fitting
11:29:46 for the electronic billboard ordinance that you all
11:29:49 have workshops in the future.
11:29:51 But in the interest of expediency and getting this
11:29:53 resolved, we agree that the request of the billboards
11:29:59 to put these agreements limiting just these two
11:30:02 particular billboard companies.
11:30:03 >> Let's talk about expedience I in the 13-year
11:30:06 negotiation that's been going on or something like
11:30:13 My request at the last meeting was that we didn't have
11:30:15 any references here.
11:30:16 The one paragraph, I think if digital billboards are
11:30:23 not allowed right now we don't need it.
11:30:25 And I also think we have got the whereases with the
11:30:30 digital billboards in there, and we have got the
11:30:32 opt-out provision, which is all a slippery slope.
11:30:37 Even though we are trying very hard -- you are, thank
11:30:40 you -- trying very hard to separate these, it's a
11:30:43 slippery slope for us.
11:30:44 And I can't support any agreement that is going to
11:30:49 potentially lead to determining a policy decision on
11:30:56 digital billboards.
11:30:57 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Mr. Chairman, one final point on
11:31:02 We do in our code allow digital message signs for
11:31:05 on-site signs.
11:31:06 That's why it's so important in an agreement like this
11:31:09 where we are trying to keep them separate that we are
11:31:11 making it very clear that for these billboards, with
11:31:15 the specific type of technology that's on the signs,
11:31:18 is covered in our code, not in the settlement
11:31:21 We didn't want to leave open any argument that somehow
11:31:24 a billboard could take advantage of the on-site sign,
11:31:28 electronic messaging provision or other types of
11:31:30 technology standards in our code.
11:31:34 And that's why we have got these references in here.
11:31:36 And that's why we are recommending it in this form
11:31:38 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm not sure I'm convinced of that.
11:31:43 I mean, I trust your opinion but I need to talk to you
11:31:45 further about that.
11:31:47 That's not enough for me.
11:31:48 I need some more explanation.
11:31:53 I can't approve this because I think that the safety
11:31:57 problems and the livable -- the livable city that we
11:32:04 want to be, the quality of life that we want to have
11:32:09 here, we want to be like cities that don't allow
11:32:11 digital billboards, like Los Angeles and several
11:32:14 So I just see this agreement as kind of the top of the
11:32:21 slippery slope.
11:32:22 So I'm not ready to support it.
11:32:24 But thank you.
11:32:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Two quick questions for staff.
11:32:29 One is a citizen this morning brought up the issue of
11:32:33 penalties, and in fact there aren't any mentioned.
11:32:36 How come?
11:32:36 >>JULIA COLE: I don't think it's fair to say there
11:32:43 are no specific penalties within this agreement.
11:32:45 Way think she was referring to is fines, and placing
11:32:50 those in the agreement, that is not something that in
11:32:53 the times that I dealt with these -- and I have dealt
11:32:56 with these in other jurisdictions -- seen put into
11:33:00 I'm not sure that is something we would receive any
11:33:02 type of agreement on the other side, because remember
11:33:04 this is a negotiated settlement.
11:33:05 What we do have in here are requirements for specific
11:33:09 What we do have --
11:33:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What happens if they don't
11:33:13 >>JULIA COLE: Then we have the opportunity --
11:33:16 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We go back to court and enforce
11:33:18 it directly.
11:33:19 Or I believe we could also go through our code
11:33:21 enforcement process as well.
11:33:23 We have those options also.
11:33:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The challenge that we faced
11:33:26 historically with the billboard companies is while we
11:33:28 are negotiating, they are collecting checks every
11:33:31 month from the people who place advertising on their
11:33:34 billboards, and we have not been particularly
11:33:37 successful in getting them to do what they necessarily
11:33:41 agree to do, if it's terribly lucrative for them to do
11:33:45 what they have been doing in the past.
11:33:47 For example, Clear Channel specifically agreed many
11:33:49 years ago to take down certain signs, they took down
11:33:51 some but not others.
11:33:53 They are still there.
11:33:54 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: In that context there was no
11:33:58 final judgment from a court that we would be able to
11:34:00 go back and get fines or other action by a court.
11:34:03 We will have that in this instance.
11:34:08 The post settlement obligation in here is that they go
11:34:10 back to court and we get a final judgment from the two
11:34:13 judges in this case, so we would then have the ability
11:34:16 to directly enforce in those instances.
11:34:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But the other quick question is
11:34:24 from a woman who lives in a historic district in
11:34:28 Seminole Heights, she says that in the location
11:34:31 definitions the signs, quote, must not be located
11:34:34 within a historic district.
11:34:36 But it's adjacent to I-275, and I-275 is included as
11:34:43 an acceptable location.
11:34:44 So how will that be interpreted for the people who
11:34:47 live in Seminole Heights?
11:34:49 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: In the draft ordinance that we
11:34:51 provided you, digital signs would be prohibited in all
11:34:53 historic districts.
11:34:55 In these agreements, they are prohibited on historic
11:35:01 >> They are allowed in a historic district?
11:35:05 >>JULIA COLE: Yes, signs can be located into a
11:35:08 historic district but not onto a property which
11:35:10 contains a historically designated structure.
11:35:14 >> But it could be next door to a historically
11:35:17 designated structure?
11:35:19 >>> That is true.
11:35:20 County be next door to a historically designated
11:35:22 structure or within a historic district in that kind
11:35:24 of proximity, but that is for the signs which are not
11:35:28 inclusive of the signs in the proposal.
11:35:33 >> I am going to turn over the gavel and move item 87
11:35:39 and 88 with the understanding from our legal that they
11:35:41 have negotiated this, and let me just say as I said a
11:35:44 few weeks ago, there is no ideal.
11:35:48 This is a settlement.
11:35:50 It means nobody is really happy but we come to a
11:35:52 compromise, and middle of the road where we get
11:35:55 something and they get something.
11:35:56 They don't get all what they want, nor do we get all
11:35:59 that we want and it's in the best interest of the
11:36:02 So with that understanding, and I dealt with these
11:36:04 years over at the county.
11:36:05 So I am going to move item 87 and 88.
11:36:08 Based on the recommendation of our legal.
11:36:10 >> Second.
11:36:12 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:36:14 Question on the motion.
11:36:15 Mrs. Saul-Sena.
11:36:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I will not be able to support the
11:36:18 Not that our legal department hasn't tried.
11:36:20 But they did not receive support of the administration
11:36:22 to hire a really gunning ho specialist attorney where
11:36:27 the sign companies, trust me, have people for whom
11:36:30 this is their main focus.
11:36:32 I feel like this is in the middle of the road,
11:36:35 Mr. Chairman.
11:36:35 I feel like wear on the shoulder.
11:36:38 And I feel like our community has never been
11:36:41 We are making some strides.
11:36:42 This is not a strong a step as I would like to see us
11:36:47 And I think if we were to reject this, there's the
11:36:52 possibility that we could come up with something that
11:36:54 is stronger.
11:36:55 So therefore I won't be supporting this ordinance.
11:36:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I already said most of way needed to
11:37:01 But I just want to point out that there are entire
11:37:04 states that don't even allow billboards.
11:37:06 And we are talking about a decision that might affect
11:37:11 us having perhaps some more than we have right now,
11:37:17 and with having the digital billboards, which, by the
11:37:21 way, I don't know any man who can drive by a digital
11:37:25 billboard without looking at it.
11:37:27 I can't get my husband's attention if he's watching
11:37:29 TV, or my son who -- it's just a genetic problem.
11:37:37 So television screens all over the size of the road is
11:37:40 really scary.
11:37:40 And I do feel like there's enough -- there are outs in
11:37:49 this agreement for Clear Channel if we don't adopt the
11:37:52 digital ordinance.
11:37:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
11:37:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
11:38:01 It's my understanding this litigation has been around
11:38:04 for five or more years, at least.
11:38:06 And this is to resolve -- this is to resolve
11:38:11 litigation, okay.
11:38:12 This is not about the digital ordinance.
11:38:15 There is nothing in this settlement agreement that
11:38:18 allows digital billboards.
11:38:22 And I made that abundantly clear four months ago
11:38:25 because I said, I'm not going to participate in any
11:38:28 settlement agreement that includes the digital
11:38:31 That's why -- and fortunately you guys and the mayor
11:38:34 agreed, and that's why it got yanked out of there.
11:38:37 We are going to deal with the digital billboards at a
11:38:40 later date, set up the workshop, the community is
11:38:42 going to have their meetings, we are all going to
11:38:44 address it, whether or not we have digital billboards
11:38:47 or we don't will be another day.
11:38:49 The only connection here is if the two companies are
11:38:54 monitoring our digital billboard ordinance, don't like
11:38:57 the way -- we are not passing water or whatever, they
11:39:02 pull out, that's fine.
11:39:03 Let them.
11:39:04 Then we'll be back in court, and I have full faith and
11:39:07 confidence in Chip and the attorneys that are working
11:39:09 for him and anybody he might hire to litigate this to
11:39:12 the fullest.
11:39:14 So I will support today's thing.
11:39:15 Let's move forward with this agreement.
11:39:18 I reviewed it thoroughly and I think eights good
11:39:20 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I was out of the room when the
11:39:23 motion was made.
11:39:24 Can I hear the motion again?
11:39:27 >> The motion is item 87 and 88, moving the
11:39:30 recommendation of our legal, the city attorney, to
11:39:32 approve the settlement agreement.
11:39:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Are you ready to vote, Mr. Caetano?
11:39:37 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
11:39:39 Opposed Nay.
11:39:40 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena and
11:39:44 Mulhern voting no.
11:39:45 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to go back.
11:39:52 Ms. Palus has been waiting for awhile.
11:39:56 Item 15 and 16.
11:39:58 >>KAREN PALUS: Parks and recreation director here at
11:40:09 the request of item number 15 and 16 regarding the
11:40:13 reservation software system.
11:40:14 I understand there's some question as related to the
11:40:16 recreation contract.
11:40:19 Actually for the purposes of the reservation software
11:40:22 it's a separate situation.
11:40:23 This is the software program that goes in place for
11:40:25 all of our programming.
11:40:27 This is what I have been speaking with council about
11:40:30 as we went through the ordinance and through the fee
11:40:32 This will allow for the folks that made that
11:40:35 commitment, and I'll share it with you with our
11:40:38 residents to be able to register and pay online.
11:40:40 That's what the program will allow them to do.
11:40:43 So at 4:30 in the morning, stand out in front of Kate
11:40:47 Jackson to wait to register for summer programs.
11:40:50 To allow those folks to utilize our rental and shelter
11:40:54 services to be able to go in and register either at
11:40:59 their home or within a commuter lab at one of their
11:41:03 centers versus come all the way down to our offices.
11:41:06 So this program is bigger than tennis.
11:41:08 I can speak to the specifics of the tennis instructor
11:41:11 aspect as well.
11:41:12 But the reservation system is our overall
11:41:14 accountability, allowing that customer friendly
11:41:17 service, and sharing with each of you regarding how we
11:41:20 handle reservations, how we handle online
11:41:24 registration, and services for our city as a whole.
11:41:27 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
11:41:30 And thanks for clarifying that.
11:41:32 Because I wasn't sure and had questions about it.
11:41:36 And have had questions from some other instructors and
11:41:39 people who have been using different programs.
11:41:41 So I don't feel comfortable enough at this point.
11:41:45 It seems like it might be creating more bureaucracy.
11:41:52 And it's a lot of money to spend at this point.
11:41:55 So I feel like I would just like to have more of a
11:42:01 report, maybe a public hearing, or public workshop or
11:42:06 something, where we can talk about these specific
11:42:10 changes and the ramifications for the instructors and
11:42:18 just clients, their clients.
11:42:21 So I'm not saying I can't support it.
11:42:23 I just feel lake I don't know enough about it and want
11:42:26 to hear more.
11:42:27 >>> The reservation software we are putting in place
11:42:30 is independent of the recreation instructor.
11:42:32 That is a separate entity.
11:42:35 However, what it does allow us to do is the
11:42:37 reservation software is to put those programs on that
11:42:40 system and allow for authorize registrations to occur
11:42:43 so they get live visibility for all of their programs
11:42:45 and access to it.
11:42:46 It allows for after-school programs instead of having
11:42:49 the fees collected day in and day out and the service
11:42:53 day with everything coming in, they can do that on
11:42:55 It allows for that summer registration -- ridge
11:42:58 strayings to occur.
11:42:59 It allows for somebody who wants to have pottery
11:43:01 classes at Hyde Park at school that wants to take it
11:43:03 at Taylor, they can get on line and see that and move
11:43:06 from site to site.
11:43:07 They can move for reservations for rentals, let's say
11:43:11 they are interested in a shelter for a large event at
11:43:13 Al Lopez, they can look see it's not available on this
11:43:17 date but I can look at Lowry.
11:43:18 It allows us to talk to one another.
11:43:21 When you sign on as a family within the system you
11:43:23 will establish a recreation card in the family system.
11:43:26 So our staff no matter what site you visit in the city
11:43:30 will no they are already a rec card holder, they have
11:43:33 access to the programs and facilities.
11:43:35 Right now there is no way for our program the way we
11:43:37 are structured to talk to one another so it's very
11:43:40 un-customer friendly.
11:43:41 This gives us our folks to move throughout the city
11:43:45 seamlessly, allows them the flexibility to do what
11:43:47 they need to do at the time they need to do it to be
11:43:50 able to participate in our program, which is a
11:43:52 tremendous, tremendous accomplishment on the software
11:43:55 to be able to assist our folks in that effort.
11:43:58 It's very labor intensive currently.
11:44:00 >>MARY MULHERN: I understand that.
11:44:03 But it seems like it's interesting because the person
11:44:06 who was here this morning was doing that labor and
11:44:09 would prefer to do it the way he's doing it now.
11:44:12 And I think there are pros and cops, and I think that
11:44:18 we would like to hear more from the public on this
11:44:20 particular -- maybe not on necessarily on buying the
11:44:24 software, but on how it is going to be -- the entire
11:44:29 program is going to be instituted because it is going
11:44:31 to be changing the way that they operate, and it does
11:44:36 affect them in a pretty big way.
11:44:38 And I think especially the instructors who are relying
11:44:42 on income from this, and if they are having to wait
11:44:46 months to get paid.
11:44:47 I think there is enough here that I need to get more
11:44:50 information before I'm comfortable with it.
11:44:52 >>KAREN PALUS: Let me see if I can separate the two
11:44:55 issues for council so that you are comfortable.
11:44:58 The reservation software again is that global system,
11:45:01 and that will be in place that we need to move forward
11:45:04 to put ourselves to be able to collect appropriately
11:45:07 those fees and give our customer it is ability to
11:45:09 access it.
11:45:10 The recreation instructor would be happy to talk with
11:45:12 you more about that and share that process and that
11:45:15 program and what's involved with that.
11:45:16 I can do that this morning or I can do that at a
11:45:19 separate time with more dialogue.
11:45:20 >>MARY MULHERN: I think we need more time because
11:45:23 it's not just about one person, it's about how it's
11:45:25 going to change a lot of the programs.
11:45:26 So I would like to maybe continue this to staff report
11:45:33 at another meeting.
11:45:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll second it for discussion.
11:45:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think I didn't understand until
11:45:45 today the two things were different.
11:45:48 I think Mr. Dingfelder and Mr. Miranda put a visit for
11:45:52 knew 30 days at the beginning of December to
11:45:54 specifically talk about the issues that the tennis
11:45:58 instructor brought to us.
11:45:59 We weren't aware when we adopted something a little
11:46:01 while ago that Mr. Dingfelder brought up that we were
11:46:04 giving permission to change the way that things had
11:46:07 been done.
11:46:08 But the software seems like it will be make people's
11:46:14 lives easier.
11:46:15 My question, if we vote on this today, how quickly
11:46:17 will this be available to the public to use?
11:46:21 >>KAREN PALUS: Let me share with you it's been over a
11:46:24 two-year process to get this far in acquisition of the
11:46:27 software to get the right system and the right
11:46:28 services to our I.T. and our innovation technology
11:46:33 working closely with the finance folks and everybody
11:46:36 to orchestrate this, to online register and online
11:46:40 So -- we anticipated initially it would be in place by
11:46:45 January 1 but I made a commitment to summer folks that
11:46:47 we would be ready before summer registration so I'm
11:46:51 hoping to see something by March and April if not
11:46:53 That's where our time frame S.we'll nor more as we get
11:46:57 to additional dialogue once the award has occurred.
11:47:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda.
11:47:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not against change and knots
11:47:05 against doing things with computers and so forth and
11:47:07 so on, but I always say anything that's man made is
11:47:10 going to break down.
11:47:11 That's number one.
11:47:12 Number two, not everyone has a computer.
11:47:16 So I firmly believe you should have a dual system in
11:47:19 where if somebody wants to do it online and wherever
11:47:24 going to play at Davis Island, they can look it up,
11:47:26 yeah, I have an opening at 1:30, you can come in and
11:47:29 pay and not be in the computer system.
11:47:30 But what I heard today is that we have become so -- or
11:47:35 becoming, not become -- becoming so stringent that we
11:47:38 are running something like the French open here that
11:47:42 you have to have a certain time to get to the court.
11:47:45 And -- the U.S. open.
11:47:51 It's not so glamorous.
11:47:52 Big but not glamorous.
11:47:54 So what I'm saying, these things should be with the
11:47:56 intent in mind that these things do break down.
11:48:01 We have a computer in the state that speak spent, I
11:48:03 don't New York City 800 million to track things in the
11:48:06 department of business professional regulation, and
11:48:09 they break down.
11:48:15 You can't justify who has what, at what time or when.
11:48:19 So you must have a backup system that works in
11:48:22 conjunction with this system so that that's why I'm
11:48:24 saying second Ms. Mulhern, when you come back I want
11:48:28 to see if will the whole plan, if this breaks down,
11:48:31 those tennis pros can certainly give their lessons and
11:48:34 certainly do what they are doing.
11:48:35 And when I look at 30 days to pay somebody back for
11:48:38 what they have done, if that's the truth what I heard
11:48:40 today, maybe when people speak to each other and not
11:48:44 face to face, sometimes there's a lot of things that
11:48:46 are not taken in due context.
11:48:51 And I really believe that no one should wait 30 days
11:48:54 for their money.
11:48:55 And I understand what you are trying to do.
11:48:56 I appreciate what you are trying to do.
11:48:58 And that's my only reason to second the motion.
11:49:01 You see, both of these combined come in.
11:49:03 If not, one day you may have a bunch of reservations
11:49:07 and nobody knows where they are going.
11:49:09 >>KAREN PALUS: Let me share a little bit the rec
11:49:17 instructor agreement and hopefully eliminate some of
11:49:19 that information that you heard earlier that's been a
11:49:21 little misconstrued.
11:49:23 What we have allowed for with our rec instructors is
11:49:27 the means to be able to have them place their invoices
11:49:30 in to be reimbursed.
11:49:32 And we can do that if they want to do it on a monthly
11:49:35 basis, if they want to do whatever the program.
11:49:38 For six weeks two. Weeks, we talked with them.
11:49:41 We have some flexibility.
11:49:42 We have been working with finances to do that.
11:49:44 We heard that from a straw instructors.
11:49:47 Since October 1, we have already received ten new
11:49:49 instructors which is exciting for us because prior to
11:49:52 the ordinance, and the fee schedule going in place, we
11:49:54 weren't able to really bring in instructors as easily
11:49:57 as weighed been before.
11:49:58 Ms. Mulhern, remember when we spoke about some of the
11:50:01 programs and things that had piano teachers or the
11:50:06 drum groups that wanted to come in.
11:50:08 We now have the ability to do that, and we see new
11:50:12 ten -- ten new instructors.
11:50:14 It allows us to see who is in our facility and who is
11:50:18 generating revenue in our facility, allows us to
11:50:20 background screen them and give them I.D. cards, so
11:50:23 woo know who is there, when they are there, and they
11:50:26 are appropriate to work with our children day in and
11:50:28 day out, the community will be able to visibly tell
11:50:31 who is an instructor and who is not within our
11:50:34 So it's a safety and security factor, and the
11:50:37 professional standards, there's no cigar box as you
11:50:40 heard about at Ballast Point, I don't know if that's
11:50:43 city staff, if that's a private instructor.
11:50:45 I just throw $35 in a cigar box.
11:50:48 It allows people to register and sign up for classes
11:50:51 that they can have a multiple number of -- they can go
11:50:56 to 10 or 20 classes.
11:50:58 There's a lot of variety in what we have been able to
11:51:01 provide to make it very customary friendly.
11:51:04 There are some changes and some things that may be
11:51:07 difficult for folks to understand unusually but we
11:51:11 have been through IRS standard, we have been through
11:51:13 legal, make sure everybody meets the standards, and we
11:51:16 have met all those guidelines so where everything is
11:51:19 aboveboard and being handled in the most professional
11:51:22 manner out there.
11:51:22 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't feel comfortable with this,
11:51:28 because there's so many questions.
11:51:30 Everything that you are bringing up, I have more
11:51:32 questions about.
11:51:33 So I would like to just continue this so that I can
11:51:38 speak with you individually, and also for an
11:51:43 opportunity at a council meeting for the public to
11:51:47 come and weigh in on this.
11:51:49 Because you are changing the structure of how you are
11:51:51 doing this.
11:51:52 You are creating -- if we weren't doing this before,
11:51:56 you are centralizing very contractors.
11:52:02 You know, it's almost like, I don't know, you are
11:52:05 taking on a sort of educational level of bureaucracy
11:52:11 that I don't know if that's the best way for us to go.
11:52:16 And I frankly think it ends up maybe costing us more
11:52:20 in staff and not being as efficient.
11:52:24 So I know, Karen, you watched this and you have been
11:52:30 studying it but I don't feel comfortable with
11:52:32 approving it today.
11:52:33 So I hope we can get some support to continue it to, I
11:52:38 don't know, 30 days.
11:52:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern, you have to hold your
11:52:44 motion because the person who seconded it has left.
11:52:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'll make a motion to support it.
11:52:49 I don't want to be rude to you but I really feel like
11:52:52 we need to get this done.
11:52:53 It's not that I don't want to revisit all the issues
11:52:56 that the tennis player brought up.
11:53:00 I think it would be appropriate to have -- we have
11:53:03 already scheduled the discussion on that.
11:53:05 And I like the flexibility that you described.
11:53:08 I don't want us to become over bureaucratized and
11:53:14 systemized, but I feel the software especially for
11:53:17 making reservations for shelters and stuff is really
11:53:20 super important.
11:53:21 >> It's very customer friendly and that was our focus
11:53:24 to make it as easy as possible for a city resident,
11:53:27 non-city resident to utilize our facilities in the
11:53:29 most efficient manner.
11:53:30 As council member mentioned, the dual systems, we will
11:53:34 always have a dual system.
11:53:36 We'll have backup documentation.
11:53:38 The instructors are communicated through that as well.
11:53:41 They'll get their sheets, get their layouts, they will
11:53:43 know their supervisors on-site, who is coming, when
11:53:46 they are coming, how many are scheduled to be there,
11:53:48 when they are scheduled to be there, do you have a new
11:53:51 class rosters?
11:53:53 It's very comprehensive so very helpful for the
11:53:56 customer, it's easy to get in there, just sign up for
11:53:59 the program they want.
11:54:00 >> The instructors want greater flexibility and I
11:54:04 don't see the down side of that.
11:54:05 >> And we'll work with them however we need to
11:54:07 accommodate them and work with them.
11:54:09 >> And have these conversations before you come back
11:54:12 in 30 days.
11:54:13 >> We have met actually with the tennis program folks
11:54:16 three times thus far.
11:54:18 We continue to have that dialogue and such.
11:54:19 And we'll continue to have that conversation.
11:54:22 We said sit down with us, share with us when your
11:54:25 registrations are key, and we'll send staff there
11:54:27 until we get the automated system we'll be there to
11:54:30 support you and make sure we can do that.
11:54:31 If it's a weekend day we have weekend staff that are
11:54:35 So we have been very flexible with them.
11:54:36 We are open to any accommodations we can do with them
11:54:39 and work through that.
11:54:39 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion on the floor to
11:54:44 continue how long, 30 days?
11:54:47 >>MARY MULHERN: 30 days.
11:54:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I haven't --
11:54:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: My second is back.
11:54:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When we implement this item, 15, 16
11:55:02 that we are about to purchase?
11:55:04 >>KAREN PALUS: As soon as we can go through that
11:55:07 They still have to, once the company has been awarded
11:55:11 what you are doing today will go through that
11:55:13 negotiation with them and go through the process of
11:55:15 setting up our infrastructure, because everything is a
11:55:18 little different based on our facilities.
11:55:20 So ideally, like I mentioned, I would like to see
11:55:23 something ready by the March-April time frame, but
11:55:26 depending on how long it takes to get everything set
11:55:28 up, I don't have a ballpark but that's what I'm
11:55:30 shooting for is March-April.
11:55:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All I would suggest, I'm willing
11:55:35 to support -- it's a give and take, Karen.
11:55:37 I'm willing to support 15 and 16 today.
11:55:39 All I would suggest is on the tennis program, which is
11:55:42 the only program that I have heard about, okay, why
11:55:46 supplement something on a temporary basis between now
11:55:48 and Martha we are just going to redo with a permanent
11:55:52 automated system?
11:55:53 I think the automated system sounds pretty neat.
11:55:55 You and I just talked about it.
11:55:57 People can maybe buy tickets to go take their lessons.
11:56:00 That might solve the problem.
11:56:02 But I hate for to us get everybody all upset, and I'm
11:56:07 not just talking about Mr. Shull, I'm talking about
11:56:11 customers, okay?
11:56:12 And I have been out there.
11:56:13 I know the tennis situation.
11:56:16 I would hope that you just don't rock that boat, get
11:56:20 that automated system in place, and I think the
11:56:23 automated system might work out.
11:56:24 It's just my request.
11:56:25 >>KAREN PALUS: I told the instructors, everybody
11:56:29 that's currently an instructor with us that, we will
11:56:31 transition them into the new system by January 1.
11:56:34 Anybody new that's coming into our new system by
11:56:38 October 1.
11:56:38 So the folks that, six months to get up and ready for
11:56:43 that January 1st, again thinking at that time that
11:56:45 we would have our automated system ready by January
11:56:49 I didn't anticipate that it's going to take a lot of
11:56:51 work to get everything loaded that we have in the City
11:56:53 of Tampa.
11:56:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's my point. If you move that
11:56:57 from January 1 to March 1, have the automated system,
11:57:00 and the existing instructors could go into the
11:57:02 automated system as opposed to going into a manual
11:57:06 system and then an automated system over a two or
11:57:08 three-month period.
11:57:09 It doesn't make any sense.
11:57:11 >>> I will be glad to talk to the instructors.
11:57:14 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion to continue item 15
11:57:15 and 16.
11:57:16 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
11:57:18 Opposed, Nay.
11:57:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Nay.
11:57:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That was a motion to continue?
11:57:23 No, no, I don't support that.
11:57:24 I misunderstood the motion.
11:57:25 And Charlie, you did the motion to continue?
11:57:27 >>GWEN MILLER: He seconded it.
11:57:30 Ms. Mulhern made the motion.
11:57:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Didn't understand it.
11:57:33 I thought it was Linda's motion.
11:57:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can we have a revote?
11:57:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we should -- I think Karen
11:57:45 is moving forward with a good program.
11:57:46 Karen just gave me an example when we are talking it
11:57:49 covers Kate Jackson and people want to sign up for the
11:57:52 summer day camps.
11:57:53 This is much, much bigger than tennis.
11:57:56 Give the automated system in place and let's do it
11:58:01 So let's vote again.
11:58:03 So it's clear.
11:58:04 >>GWEN MILLER: The motion to continue item 15 and 16
11:58:08 for 30 days.
11:58:09 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
11:58:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: There was a request for a roll call
11:58:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
11:58:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
11:58:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No.
11:58:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:58:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
11:58:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.
11:58:29 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Saul-Sena and
11:58:32 Dingfelder voting no.
11:58:34 And Scott being absent.
11:58:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Now we go to item -- we are going to
11:58:47 continue -- go into recess until 1:30.
11:58:50 Adjourn until 1:30.
11:58:52 (The meeting recessed at 11:59 a.m.)
(The afternoon session of the Tampa City Council
meeting was called to order.)
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>>VICE CHAIRMAN GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
01:36:22 >>VICE CHAIRMAN MILLER: I would like to read on the
01:36:23 record that Mr. Scott will be coming back but he will
01:36:25 be late getting to the meeting.
01:36:27 We are going to go back to number 85.
01:36:31 I don't see Mr. Fletcher so we will go to number 89.
01:36:34 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
01:36:39 This is an ordinance amending the provision here for
01:36:42 first reading.
01:36:43 Some time ago City Council directed their staff to
01:36:45 work with the not-for-profit group, Tampa Bay public
01:36:48 lurk group, to have them voluntarily place modular
01:36:52 news rack as round the city in hopes of eliminating
01:36:54 some of the proliferation of news racks.
01:37:00 As we were progressing with that we realized your
01:37:02 ordinance as it stands today does not provide for
01:37:05 modular news racks so we amended it to have provision
01:37:08 where is they can be located and how they can be
01:37:11 affixed to the ground.
01:37:12 While we were doing that we realized your ordinance
01:37:14 has not been amended in at least 20 years, since 1989.
01:37:18 And from that, we updated the requirements so that
01:37:22 they meet the current City of Tampa standards, and
01:37:25 also reviewed it from a Constitutional perspective.
01:37:28 Based upon that, we deleted a provision which required
01:37:33 adjoining property own area approval because that
01:37:35 provision is no longer enforceable under currents case
01:37:38 We also updated and clarified the process for when the
01:37:40 City of Tampa removes news racks that are in violation
01:37:46 of your code.
01:37:48 That provides also meets current case law.
01:37:51 We also added a provision that allows -- that provides
01:37:54 that if a violation for the news rack in and of itself
01:37:57 to be in violation of any of the standards of the
01:37:59 code, and hope that at some point we can come back and
01:38:02 amend the citation process to include this in the
01:38:05 citation process, so that we can have an option rather
01:38:08 than removal for non-emergency situations.
01:38:12 We also defined abandoned news racks which were not
01:38:15 previously defined as a news rack that is empty for
01:38:18 seven days, and that is also a violation that can be
01:38:20 subjects to either a citation or removal.
01:38:23 Based upon staff request, we removed wood as one of
01:38:28 the permissible materials, and expanded the
01:38:31 prohibition attaching news racks which previously
01:38:35 could not be attached to traffic control devices to
01:38:39 include a prohibition on attaching them to utility
01:38:41 poles and traffic signs.
01:38:44 Finally, dealing with permits, a permit is currently
01:38:47 required and has been required since at least 1989 for
01:38:51 individual news racks.
01:38:52 We did, after some discussion was staff, as well as
01:38:55 the "The Tampa Tribune," created an allowance to have
01:38:58 a mass permit for multiple news racks if they provide
01:39:01 a site plan so that the city knows where those are
01:39:04 Those are the major changes.
01:39:05 And I'm available if you have any questions.
01:39:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
01:39:08 I agree with the last part there where you said --
01:39:14 Where you addressed the system about the application
01:39:19 for permit.
01:39:20 I think that's fair.
01:39:21 I read this last night, while watching the World
01:39:25 Thank you, Yankees, for winning, Tampa's team, by the
01:39:30 I say this.
01:39:30 The 48-hour, I mean, some over ambitious individual,
01:39:37 put that the way, could say that the rack was empty
01:39:40 for 48 hours, but they checked either too early in the
01:39:43 morning or too late in the afternoon, and bingo, they
01:39:45 are gone.
01:39:46 I think seven days, a provision that was suggested
01:39:49 would be a fair item.
01:39:52 >>> We agree with.
01:39:54 That and the ordinance that's before you, the
01:39:55 substitute ordinance, contains seven days, not the 48
01:39:58 >> I haven't had a chance to look at the sub.
01:40:00 And the insurance portion, I read through it and I
01:40:06 tried to put it in the text of a general contractor.
01:40:10 If the general contractor is covering all the
01:40:11 insurance for all the subs, and maybe, maybe not, why
01:40:15 am I going to make all those individuals who touch
01:40:17 something and put something also have insurance?
01:40:21 >> We agreed with that provision as well and that's
01:40:24 also part of the change.
01:40:25 >> All right.
01:40:27 Now the third provision, fourth provision, depends on
01:40:30 how you look at it in order, is the one that I sort of
01:40:32 agree with the city.
01:40:35 You are going to have to prove to me that it's note a
01:40:37 hindrance to someone's view, or where you have a news
01:40:42 rack now, and then you expand it to assisting, or
01:40:47 adjacent property owner, and that's a business, and
01:40:50 all of a sudden now they may or may not have ingress
01:40:52 or egress problems, without consent of that business
01:40:56 owner, even though it is on city right-of-way.
01:40:58 >>REBECCA KERT: The location requirements should
01:41:01 prevent the situation that you describe from
01:41:03 But from a Constitutional standpoint it's not
01:41:05 permissible to delegate to a third party the
01:41:08 discretion to decide whether or not somebody that's
01:41:11 protected by the first amendment occurs.
01:41:14 So that is from the legal department, that would not
01:41:16 be enforceable.
01:41:17 >> So then clearing the record, the third party is the
01:41:20 individual who owns the adjacent building or rents
01:41:22 >> Yes, that would be correct.
01:41:25 >> Thank you very much.
01:41:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions from council members?
01:41:28 We will now hear from the public.
01:41:30 >>> Jim Lake, 4 the 18 San Pedro, here today as a
01:41:36 lawyer for the "The Tampa Tribune" and I want to thank
01:41:38 council first for postponing this matter to today,
01:41:41 because as the city attorney indicated we took that
01:41:44 interim several weeks to work with the city, and a
01:41:47 number of the issues that we had concerns about
01:41:49 including those Mr. Miranda just raised have been
01:41:51 addressed, and we appreciate that.
01:41:53 There's really just one area, though, that we continue
01:41:56 to have a disagreement with, and I would just like to
01:41:58 mention that briefly.
01:41:59 And that is the idea of having the permit requirement
01:42:03 for the individual news racks.
01:42:06 And we certainly appreciate the progress as we see it
01:42:09 that was made in allowing a single application for
01:42:11 multiple locations.
01:42:13 That's helpful.
01:42:14 But we still see a real difference between what the
01:42:20 ordinance was until a week ago, the proposed
01:42:21 ordinance, which is requiring a permit and a site plan
01:42:24 for modular rack, modular being the large racks like
01:42:28 we have when you are here that hold eight to ten
01:42:31 We have no problem with the site plan.
01:42:33 Those make sense.
01:42:34 Those are bolted to the ground and we'll certainly
01:42:36 comply with that.
01:42:37 And in fact the Tribune worked with the city and pays
01:42:40 for a lot of the costs of those modular racks.
01:42:43 But we see those as significantly different from the
01:42:46 individual free standing racks that we think requiring
01:42:50 the permit, even if it's a permit for all of those and
01:42:55 a site plan, is really unreasonable.
01:42:56 The modular racks like I say, they are costly, they
01:43:02 are costly to maintain, but we can work with that, we
01:43:04 can live with that.
01:43:05 But the individual free-standing ones, unfortunately,
01:43:08 when they are vandalized occasionally, the Tribune
01:43:12 would like the flexibility to pick that up right away,
01:43:15 move that one, bring it back to the shop and get it
01:43:17 repaired and maybe place it in a different location.
01:43:19 Certainly as Mr. Miranda suggests a rack blocks
01:43:25 somebody's driveway, that is a violation and the city
01:43:28 ought to have the authority to have that rack be
01:43:31 But to require a site plan every time a news rack is
01:43:34 moved, say, from one intersection to another just
01:43:38 doesn't seem to us to be a good use of the city's
01:43:40 resources and seems like a real burden for folks who
01:43:44 own a number of these racks.
01:43:46 The city attorney suggested that there are specific
01:43:50 neutral safety requirements that council might want to
01:43:54 impose, setback requirements, that can be specifically
01:43:57 We have no problem with those.
01:43:58 We can certainly work with those.
01:44:00 But requiring a site plan every time somebody wants to
01:44:02 put a rack at a different location doesn't seem to us
01:44:06 to be a good use of the city's resources.
01:44:09 And so we would just suggest that the site plan and
01:44:12 the permit requirement be limited to the modular news
01:44:15 racks and not news racks in general.
01:44:18 That's all I have.
01:44:19 Thank you, council.
01:44:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
01:44:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
01:44:23 It's an interesting question, Mr. Lake.
01:44:27 And council or staff can help me too on this.
01:44:32 How about the notion that you have this holistic
01:44:35 permit, and you provide an a deny dumb, or a list that
01:44:39 says, this is where they are now.
01:44:42 And if you move them, you have a month, let's say, to
01:44:46 amend that list with the city.
01:44:48 That way, it doesn't sound too burdensome.
01:44:52 Now where they are because you are filling them up
01:44:54 every night.
01:44:55 And at the same time the city can keep some track and
01:44:59 some control on where they are, because that's the
01:45:00 whole point of this ordinance, is to have a little bit
01:45:03 more control on it.
01:45:04 On these.
01:45:05 >>> Yes, sir.
01:45:06 And I would say up front that wouldn't be our first
01:45:10 We would like the flexibility.
01:45:11 But if it were just the form of a list I think that's
01:45:14 something the Tribune could do.
01:45:15 But the proposed language --
01:45:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The good fee is there's no
01:45:20 associated with that, that's correct?
01:45:22 >>> Yes, sir, that's correct.
01:45:23 >> And I understand you are happy about that.
01:45:24 >>> Absolutely.
01:45:25 That's correct.
01:45:26 But with regard to the list, if it were simply a list,
01:45:29 I think that is something the paper could do, and as
01:45:32 you say supplement within 30 days or what have you.
01:45:34 But the site plan definition that's incorporated --
01:45:37 and again this was just added last week -- would
01:45:40 require the location of each news rack, sidewalk,
01:45:44 curbs, driveways, fire hydrants --
01:45:47 >> I would agree with you.
01:45:48 I think that's overkill.
01:45:50 For a little box.
01:45:51 I think if you say generally what the address is, now,
01:45:53 this is in front of this address or this intersection
01:45:56 or something like that, I would think that's good
01:45:58 enough for our staff to deal with.
01:46:00 You know, we want to be reasonable.
01:46:03 The first amendment is one of our most precious and
01:46:06 important freedoms.
01:46:08 And when we want to cooperate with you all on that.
01:46:13 But at the same time we need control of our aesthetics
01:46:16 in our community.
01:46:17 So Rebecca, any comments on that?
01:46:19 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
01:46:25 The 30 days, and the master permit with the amendment,
01:46:29 I don't believe the administration has any objections
01:46:31 to that.
01:46:32 The only thing I would say about the site plan is not
01:46:36 the site plans you get when you are doing a rezoning,
01:46:39 it doesn't have to be to scale, it's just saying five
01:46:42 feet away, and it's what is requested by my staff to
01:46:46 my understanding so that the city is sure that it's
01:46:49 meeting the ADA requirement.
01:46:50 >> Well, maybe could you just include, if it's not
01:46:53 there already, include in the regulations say this is
01:46:56 the parameters where they must be, and if they submit
01:46:58 a list, and maybe they need to swear to it and affirm
01:47:03 that all these boxes are at the location and meet
01:47:05 these criteria. So something along those lines.
01:47:08 We don't have to wrestle out those details right this
01:47:11 But I think some compromise along those lines might be
01:47:14 in order.
01:47:20 >> Unless you want toe postpone this --
01:47:22 >> I think you are going to need to postpone it a
01:47:24 little bit if you are going to tweak that up.
01:47:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker?
01:47:29 >>> Spencer Kass representing Virginia park
01:47:31 neighborhood association.
01:47:32 Actually, it was what councilman Dingfelder referred
01:47:35 to that was my concern.
01:47:37 They don't have to pay any fees.
01:47:39 I appeared before had council.
01:47:41 I said, how about we lower the fees for construction
01:47:43 in the city, or businesses?
01:47:48 Everybody pays their fair share.
01:47:50 We pay the total cost of what it costs for staff time.
01:47:55 Now hear from the "The Tampa Tribune."
01:47:58 Oh, not you.
01:47:58 You don't have to pay your fees.
01:48:00 You're a special case.
01:48:01 We are going to do something and the rest of us can
01:48:03 keep paying.
01:48:04 So you want me now to subsidize the "The Tampa
01:48:07 You want all the small businesses to subsidize the
01:48:10 "The Tampa Tribune."
01:48:11 You want all the residents to subsidize the "The Tampa
01:48:14 Nobody else gets a subsidy but they get a subsidy.
01:48:17 Under the ordinance they pay their fair share.
01:48:21 $85 an hour is what they charge.
01:48:23 Let them figure out how to use different site plans
01:48:26 and how much it's going to cost and let them pay.
01:48:29 I want to make it clear it's not a Constitutional
01:48:32 When the city is entitled to recoup their money to
01:48:35 review their site plans F.I was to do something in the
01:48:37 city, I have to pull permits, I have to pay the bid.
01:48:40 They should be under the exact same regulations that
01:48:43 every one of the rest of us without a subsidy.
01:48:45 Thank you.
01:48:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
01:48:47 >>> Good afternoon.
01:48:51 An CHIVLICK, 3109 west Martin Luther king.
01:48:57 I work for the alliance.
01:48:58 You received a letter from us probably a couple of
01:49:00 days ago.
01:49:01 Even with the Constitutionality provision, we do have
01:49:03 concerns about there's not even a courtesy
01:49:08 notification or any kind of notification with adjacent
01:49:11 property owners, that these are going in front of
01:49:14 their businesses.
01:49:15 We have lots of locations in Westshore today where
01:49:17 these boxes are not located because the property
01:49:21 previously -- and the Tribune and Times have been
01:49:23 great saying, you know, if you spend 100 million on
01:49:26 your property and put in landscaping and sidewalking
01:49:28 and control signage and everything else, they don't
01:49:31 want a rainbow of ten colored boxes sitting in front
01:49:34 of their property.
01:49:35 Because even though it's technically public
01:49:39 right-of-way, for most of us in the public, if you
01:49:41 don't work on this every day you think as a business
01:49:43 owner, why are they doing that?
01:49:44 So when at least would like to see some kind of
01:49:47 notification, courtesy notification of the owner,
01:49:50 something, because to me to put these in the
01:49:52 right-of-way, it's probably the last resort.
01:49:54 We do have some property owners in Westshore and
01:49:56 throughout the city that have worked with the
01:49:58 newspaper companies, and they will provide access,
01:50:01 even on their site, next to their front door, where
01:50:04 you can distribute newspapers.
01:50:05 A lot of the smaller restaurants do that.
01:50:07 So to us, that's a preference, because it's not right
01:50:13 up on the road.
01:50:14 I have plenty of pictures to share with you the
01:50:16 rainbow of boxes on Westshore.
01:50:19 The second thing is the permit situation.
01:50:20 We really think because in order for the city to
01:50:22 really inspect and look at these, there ought to be
01:50:26 some permit fees provided.
01:50:27 It's done in other cases for other uses in the
01:50:30 The bus benches.
01:50:31 The advertising bus benches on right-of-way have an
01:50:34 annual fee -- I mean initial fee and an annual renewal
01:50:38 fee for that permit.
01:50:39 And that can be used for inspection, removal,
01:50:44 You know, we love the idea of the modular racks.
01:50:47 We love the idea of the modular racks.
01:50:49 I have talked to a representative of the "The Tampa
01:50:51 Tribune" before and I think they are great.
01:50:53 But there are concerns about lots and lots of other
01:50:56 publications out there that aren't so great to work
01:50:58 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question for, I think, Ms.
01:51:03 Kert, whoever, whatever lawyer is in line for this.
01:51:12 You may have explained this.
01:51:13 You probably did and I didn't catch it.
01:51:14 But because of freedom of speech, they can put the
01:51:18 boxes out wherever they want?
01:51:22 Is that the point you are making?
01:51:24 >>> No, absolutely, they cannot put it wherever they
01:51:26 But because the media communication, the news racks,
01:51:32 has been declared by the United States Supreme Court
01:51:33 as protected by the first amendment, there are
01:51:35 restrictions on what we can do.
01:51:37 And one of the things we can't do is delegate to even
01:51:43 an adjoining land owner the ability to say no, because
01:51:46 it could be based upon the content of the speech,
01:51:48 could be based upon anything.
01:51:50 And I would just like to remind City Council, because
01:51:53 it's been a long time, how you actually got here, and
01:51:57 that was you were considering adopting some more
01:52:00 stringent regulations.
01:52:02 And the Tampa Bay publishing group came forward and
01:52:04 said, before you do that, please allow us an
01:52:06 opportunity to work cooperatively with you, and where
01:52:11 we can we would like the ability to put some of these
01:52:15 modulars and where you have a problem with some of our
01:52:18 boxes we would like to work with you to have those
01:52:20 And I think it's councilman Dingfelder who at the time
01:52:23 said this voluntary situation sounds good but please
01:52:26 be aware if it doesn't work we will have the
01:52:28 opportunity to come back and put more stringent
01:52:31 How we got here was the publishing group came forward
01:52:33 and said, please give us the opportunity to be a good
01:52:37 part of the community and work with you.
01:52:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, I'm not suggesting that they
01:52:40 are not.
01:52:41 I just think it seems unusual, and what we hear all
01:52:47 the time with entire neighborhoods and people coming
01:52:49 in and questioning development or building or
01:52:54 something, and a even the fact that we sometimes have
01:53:02 free speech zones for anyone who wants to talk about
01:53:05 Has it been -- it's been interpreted that newspaper
01:53:10 boxes can be placed in rights-of-way and you can't,
01:53:17 without the consent of the adjoining property owner, I
01:53:23 mean, exactly the situation --
01:53:27 >>> Not exactly on news racks, although there have
01:53:30 been some lower federal courts that have talked about
01:53:33 However, if the -- the United States Supreme Court has
01:53:35 been perfectly clear that you cannot have first
01:53:38 amendment protected activity be decided by a vote, be
01:53:45 decided without standard.
01:53:46 If people don't like where the news racks are and you
01:53:48 are not getting the compliance you like, what the
01:53:50 Supreme Court says you can do is you can decide ahead
01:53:53 of time, not just anyone, City Council can enact
01:53:57 legislation that applies uniformly to everyone, and
01:54:01 says where they can go and what they can look like.
01:54:03 We still -- it's not easy.
01:54:05 You still have to demonstrate you have ample other
01:54:09 opportunities for communication.
01:54:10 >> You say they can go on the right-of-way?
01:54:18 I don't know, it seems --
01:54:20 >>> You have to have regulation that is apply
01:54:22 >> All right.
01:54:23 So what about what she suggested about at leave least
01:54:27 giving notice?
01:54:28 >>> Well, any regulation that you have that's going to
01:54:30 have to be dealing with the first amendment, you are
01:54:35 going to have to have more than a rational basis for
01:54:39 And if there's nothing that people can do, I'm not
01:54:45 sure what it provides, but -- I'm not saying that you
01:54:47 couldn't do it.
01:54:48 But that would be something additional that everyone
01:54:53 would have to do for every individual news rack.
01:54:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I guess the Supreme Court
01:54:58 thinks giving people money is speech to news racks.
01:55:08 It seems curious that we can't write more protection
01:55:11 for adjacent land owners.
01:55:13 >>> You can.
01:55:13 You just have to do it in advance.
01:55:16 And uniformly.
01:55:17 >> So you can do that in this ordinance?
01:55:22 >>> We can do it in an ordinance between first and a
01:55:25 second reading.
01:55:26 If you want to change the criteria for uniformly for
01:55:31 everyone the Supreme Court says you can do that but
01:55:33 it's not easy.
01:55:34 They require you have a very detailed predicate
01:55:36 meaning you have to do a very detailed analysis.
01:55:39 In the particular situation for your town, where other
01:55:43 avenues of speech are available.
01:55:44 Some places have news stands, and that adds into the
01:55:48 alternative Avenue that people have to deliver their
01:55:52 I mean, they require very detailed study.
01:55:55 County be done but I believe that's why City Council
01:55:57 decided to take this approach and try to get some
01:56:00 voluntary compliance.
01:56:02 >> And then my next question is just again about the
01:56:07 And that's probably not a question for you, or is it?
01:56:10 >>> No, that's not a question --
01:56:13 >> Land development?
01:56:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena.
01:56:16 >> Let's see if we can get that question answered.
01:56:18 >>> I don't see the administration right now.
01:56:21 They may have stepped out to work on something else.
01:56:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena?
01:56:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
01:56:28 This is an issue I tried to address years and years
01:56:31 ago, and frankly because of the first amendment
01:56:36 issues, the voluntary creation of the racks with the
01:56:40 money underwritten by the Tribune, the City of Tampa,
01:56:43 was pretty amazing that this came up, and I think that
01:56:47 it's been a much more satisfactory, visually
01:56:52 satisfactory situation when everything is completely
01:56:56 And I think that while this isn't perfect, it's better
01:56:59 than it was.
01:57:00 But I think the issue is a valid one, how much staff
01:57:07 time is spent reviewing this.
01:57:14 Is that something that we could -- do we have to put
01:57:19 that number in this ordinance?
01:57:21 Or can we just say that the administration will figure
01:57:23 out how much it cost to administer this and charge a
01:57:27 fee accordingly?
01:57:28 >>> Typically City Council adopts these by resolution,
01:57:30 and in this particular ordinance it has again, well
01:57:35 before I was here, stated expressly that there will be
01:57:38 no fees.
01:57:39 So that would be a change.
01:57:41 And to Mr. Dingfelder's point about the permit and a
01:57:45 modification at this point, is that something that
01:57:48 City Council would like to us look into it, we would
01:57:50 request some additional time to talk to staff to see
01:57:52 what practically we could implement as far as making
01:57:55 the permit more flexible.
01:57:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move to continue this item
01:58:03 and direct staff to consider some greater flexibility
01:58:09 in the permitting process sort of as a group permit
01:58:13 for your generic metal boxes.
01:58:16 Still requiring, as more specific permits for the
01:58:20 bigger, multi-attached boxes.
01:58:23 I think you get the point.
01:58:25 That's the motion.
01:58:25 >> Second.
01:58:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Question on the motion, Mrs.
01:58:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I believe the ordinance currently
01:58:33 says no fees will be charged.
01:58:34 How do you feel about that?
01:58:36 Do you want them to fill that out?
01:58:38 >>MARY MULHERN: I second your motion if you strike
01:58:40 the fee.
01:58:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Why don't we do that?
01:58:45 How about since Steve Daignault stepped out, why don't
01:58:49 we add to the motion and the exploration of the
01:58:51 possibility of fees?
01:58:51 And then we'll see how the administration feels, what
01:58:54 their recommendation is, and come back with this along
01:58:57 those lines.
01:58:57 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
01:58:59 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
01:59:01 Opposed, Nay.
01:59:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Nay.
01:59:04 Because of the fees.
01:59:05 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda voting no
01:59:08 and Scott being absent.
01:59:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Chip Fletcher, number 83.
01:59:15 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Chip Fletcher, city attorney.
01:59:35 Some time ago the council requested that a procurement
01:59:40 protest procedure be prepared that provided for an
01:59:43 independent hearing officer.
01:59:46 I spent some time working on this.
01:59:49 We transmitted yesterday, I believe, a draft procedure
01:59:54 that is much more involved than what the city has used
01:59:59 in the past.
02:00:00 In the past we have used a fairly general process that
02:00:02 allowed for review of these decisions through our
02:00:07 general administrative review procedures.
02:00:11 This procedure would provide for more formal protest
02:00:14 process, included both the internal administrative
02:00:19 review and then provided for a hearing officer that
02:00:26 would be someone identified within the city attorney's
02:00:28 We selected that option to reduce the cost.
02:00:32 Some of the other options that were considered, which
02:00:35 are used by some other state agencies and localities,
02:00:39 is a fee or a bond to cover the cost of that hearing
02:00:43 officer process.
02:00:44 We decided not to go that route because of the
02:00:46 potential deterrent of seeking a review.
02:00:49 So the compromise was to identify someone in our
02:00:55 office, allow the city attorney to designate someone.
02:00:58 And in discussion was the chairman, that seems to be
02:01:01 an approach that allowed for an independent review,
02:01:05 without significant additional cost.
02:01:09 And our recommendation would to be set it for first
02:01:11 reading at some point in the future.
02:01:13 >>MARY MULHERN: Did you say designate someone in the
02:01:16 legal department?
02:01:18 The city's legal department?
02:01:21 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Right.
02:01:21 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
02:01:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena?
02:01:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The usual you was really clear
02:01:29 when it was brought up that the whole point is not
02:01:32 having a review by someone who is less than objective.
02:01:35 And the fact that the legal department is still under
02:01:38 the city's umbrella, might there be some sort of
02:01:43 review by someone who is not part of the city
02:01:48 >>> Under our charter city attorney's office is not
02:01:51 part of the administration and the mayor's office.
02:01:54 We are independent and report both to the mayor and
02:01:56 the council.
02:01:56 That's why this -- this was not my idea, trust me.
02:02:00 But it was seen as an independent, more independent
02:02:05 approach than what was previous.
02:02:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could we send it back to you to
02:02:10 look at a more independent review?
02:02:13 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: It's up to you all, and you all
02:02:17 would enact this going forward.
02:02:19 But the other approaches that we came up with included
02:02:22 a cost that we were trying to figure out how to cover.
02:02:25 And many localities have had hearing officers do that
02:02:30 through either a fee or a bond, and the view was that
02:02:33 while in other situations that's probably appropriate,
02:02:36 where you are looking at someone, especially in
02:02:40 current economic conditions, are seeking an impartial
02:02:42 review, a procurement decision, that that was a
02:02:47 financial barrier that we didn't really think was
02:02:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
02:02:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think there's two goals here.
02:02:58 One is to have as impartial a hearing officer as
02:03:02 And while I don't doubt that you guys and women in the
02:03:06 legal department can could do that, I think the whole
02:03:09 idea is perception.
02:03:10 And when this issue arose in an actual circumstance, I
02:03:15 think the folks who brought to the our attention, you
02:03:17 know, said, well, the perception is that your city
02:03:21 staff, no matter who they are, you still get a city
02:03:24 paycheck, and you are appointed by the mayor, and
02:03:28 confirmed by us, that you couldn't be impartial.
02:03:32 So I think we have to get over that hurdle which would
02:03:34 point to having an outside person.
02:03:36 The second part is how do you pay for it?
02:03:39 Perhaps, okay -- and I know we have to work with Greg
02:03:43 Spearman on this -- perhaps anybody who wants bid
02:03:46 specifications maybe pays a dollar for those -- a
02:03:50 dollar more.
02:03:51 I don't know if they are paying anything right now but
02:03:54 maybe pay a dollar more as a surcharge for a bid
02:03:56 specifics, you accumulate that over the thousands of
02:03:59 bid specks that we do each year, and you accumulate a
02:04:02 little bit of money for a hearing officer.
02:04:04 Just an idea.
02:04:07 I don't know.
02:04:08 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Just to be clear, ethically if
02:04:10 someone in our office were to handle these, it would
02:04:13 have to be someone who is not involved -- this is not
02:04:16 spilled out in this procedure but ethically would have
02:04:18 to be someone that is not involved in the prior
02:04:20 decision, who is separated from that decision-making
02:04:21 process, and could sit as an independent impartial
02:04:26 decision maker.
02:04:27 >> At the end of the day that citizen doesn't know or
02:04:30 doesn't care.
02:04:31 They still see a city employee sitting there on the
02:04:34 bench in front of them, and they might not feel as
02:04:38 comfortable as compared to a hearing officer that's
02:04:40 from the outside.
02:04:41 >>MARY MULHERN: That doesn't answer my question,
02:04:45 because that's the whole points.
02:04:48 If we had the city legal department acting as the
02:04:51 hearing officer, and then the petitioner, the
02:04:56 complainant or whatever you call them, isn't
02:04:58 satisfied, then you have to go to the city and they go
02:05:04 to court.
02:05:05 I mean, that does not make sense to me as a solution.
02:05:09 But I also don't understand -- like are there
02:05:13 actual -- I mean, we are not going to have that many
02:05:16 complaints, that many requests for reconsideration.
02:05:21 Maybe David can tell us how many he does now.
02:05:23 But if this is going to be at expense and it might be
02:05:31 in our interest to avoid litigation, which I hear that
02:05:34 all the time, to find some money in the budget to pay
02:05:37 for a hearing officer.
02:05:38 So my question is, are there hearing officers out
02:05:40 there that you hire?
02:05:42 It's not like -- we don't need a full time hearing
02:05:45 officer for this particular thing.
02:05:47 So --
02:05:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Piecework.
02:05:51 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Would you hire someone on an
02:05:53 hourly basis who would be a lawyer.
02:05:55 And we have looked into rates.
02:05:56 And they run from $100 up to get competent folks.
02:06:02 Probably closer to --
02:06:04 >>MARY MULHERN: Right, but my point is it's not
02:06:06 just -- it's in the city's interest to resolve this.
02:06:12 So the city might have some money in the budget that
02:06:15 they could put into it.
02:06:16 So the burden wouldn't all fall on the petitioner, I
02:06:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
02:06:28 I equate this as an appeal.
02:06:30 All appeals cost money.
02:06:32 So are we saying if I appear before aboard and I get
02:06:39 turned down and I appeal, are there any costs to me
02:06:42 for that appeal to be heard?
02:06:44 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Presently if it's for instance, a
02:06:47 VRB appeal or ARC appeal, there is a cost to appeal
02:06:51 that to City Council.
02:06:53 >> What does it cost?
02:06:54 In other words, years ago when I was working in Ohio,
02:06:57 we used to have all kinds of appeals to the racing
02:07:01 commission from the three stewards.
02:07:03 Two worked for the association.
02:07:04 I worked for the state.
02:07:05 So I told the state, why don't you charge $500 on
02:07:09 appeals, and if they win the appeal, you give them
02:07:13 back their $500.
02:07:15 And now what?
02:07:16 That ended the appeals.
02:07:18 And some won.
02:07:21 But it narrowed it from 100 to 5.
02:07:24 So I'm thinking, if they are so sure that they were
02:07:29 somehow not done right by the board, then they
02:07:35 certainly have the right to appeal.
02:07:37 But in doing that, if we are going to change the
02:07:41 system, I think they ought to pony up with something
02:07:44 to pay for that individual, wherever he or she is, so
02:07:47 that the city is not burdened with the cost.
02:07:49 The general taxpayers are not appealing.
02:07:50 Only those individuals are appealing.
02:07:53 Let them burden the cost.
02:07:54 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: And if I may, way just described
02:07:59 is what in other jurisdictions at the state level is a
02:08:02 bond that functions exactly the way you just
02:08:05 And we did look at that, and that's an option we could
02:08:08 go back to, I suppose, if that was council's
02:08:10 >>MARY MULHERN: I think that's a great idea.
02:08:15 >> You win, you get back your money.
02:08:17 >>GWEN MILLER: What is the motion?
02:08:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: My motion, Madam Chair, if I see
02:08:22 the consensus what I heard from different council
02:08:24 members, is they would rather have an outside
02:08:27 individual not associated with a perception on the
02:08:30 city payroll.
02:08:31 Am I correct so far?
02:08:32 And in order to facilitate that, the general public
02:08:36 should not be held accountable for the payments to
02:08:39 that individual.
02:08:40 And in essence that's what we are doing.
02:08:41 So I suggest that we figure out somehow, legal
02:08:46 department can come back and address this at a later
02:08:48 date, what the cost is, an hour, two-hour time,
02:08:51 whatever they are going to choose, how they are they
02:08:54 are going to choose, that's your prerogative, and at
02:08:56 that time say, okay, from now on these additional
02:08:58 costs plus the cost of the hearing officer, which may
02:09:01 be 200 or 300 or whatever, then you will receive this
02:09:06 and you pay for that hearing officer.
02:09:08 If that hearing officer rules against the government,
02:09:12 which is the City of Tampa, you will get back your
02:09:15 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We can put that together.
02:09:19 Just for information the way these are typically done
02:09:21 it's a percentage of the contract, and then it's a
02:09:24 bond, and then the cost of the hearing comes out of
02:09:27 If they don't win, and then the whole bond is returned
02:09:29 if they do prevail.
02:09:31 >>GWEN MILLER: How many days?
02:09:34 How long?
02:09:35 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If you can give us till, I guess,
02:09:37 the beginning of December.
02:09:38 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to
02:09:40 continue this item to December.
02:09:41 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
02:09:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: With the direction.
02:09:49 >>> Thank you.
02:09:51 >>GWEN MILLER: We go to item 83 through 86.
02:09:54 Anybody in the public that's going to be speaking on
02:09:55 those items, would you please stand and raise your
02:09:57 right hand?
02:10:01 93 to 96.
02:10:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 93 or 83?
02:10:06 (Oath administered by Clerk).
02:10:07 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open the items.
02:10:11 >> So moved.
02:10:13 >> Second.
02:10:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Open 93.
02:10:21 All in favor of the motion.
02:10:22 (Motion carried)
02:10:23 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.
02:10:25 This petition is C 09-07 for an alley that's generally
02:10:30 located in Seminole Heights.
02:10:32 And I have a map to put on the overhead.
02:10:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Madam Chair, what time was Mr.
02:10:46 Chiaramonte and his crew scheduled for?
02:10:49 They were scheduled for a time certain at two?
02:10:55 I think it's like Mr. Chairman says, when we bring
02:10:58 people in and tell them a time certain, we should
02:11:02 perhaps respect that.
02:11:03 >>GWEN MILLER: It wasn't a time certain.
02:11:06 Mr. Shelby says it wasn't a time certain.
02:11:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, there was a discussion to
02:11:14 set this as a special discussion meeting, and the
02:11:16 issue was the fact that there were appeals coming
02:11:18 forth, and that it may not start exactly at 2:00.
02:11:21 And if council wishes to, they could adjourn this
02:11:25 meeting, go to the special discussion meeting, and
02:11:28 then reopen council.
02:11:30 >>GWEN MILLER: I think we should keep going.
02:11:34 Some of these have been here all morning and they have
02:11:36 been sitting here.
02:11:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Madam Chair, there's also I believe
02:11:42 item 90.
02:11:43 I'm sorry to interrupt this but Mr. Vaughan is here on
02:11:45 an issue.
02:11:46 And I believe that was one that council member
02:11:50 Dingfelder, you accepted the report?
02:11:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Vaughan is on the first part
02:12:01 of the issue.
02:12:02 I addressed the second part of the issue which is the
02:12:04 Brad Baird dam issue.
02:12:06 So it's a two-part motion that apparently other
02:12:10 council members had questions about green issues.
02:12:13 That's why Mr. Vaughan is here.
02:12:15 My issue is about the water over the dam has already
02:12:18 been water over the dam.
02:12:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone here on part 2?
02:12:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Part 2 I'm done with.
02:12:26 It was part 1.
02:12:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Who wanted to hear part 1?
02:12:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think Mary and Linda did.
02:12:32 We can do it another time.
02:12:33 >>> DAVID VAUGHAN: This is very brief.
02:12:38 David Vaughan, director of contract administration.
02:12:39 In fact, I'm back from my previous report where we
02:12:43 talked about three or four initiatives that were
02:12:45 underway that were related to sustainability and
02:12:47 alternative energy items.
02:12:49 And just to put this in context, you are about a month
02:12:52 away from Thom Snelling, the green officer, coming in
02:12:56 and giving you his annual report as a part of the
02:13:00 green ordinance.
02:13:01 So these things relate to have that.
02:13:02 But it's very focused on some specific topics that we
02:13:06 talked about.
02:13:07 The first one of those was the fact that we were
02:13:10 pursuing an ESCO, an energy service contractor, and to
02:13:15 give you an update on that process, we are closing in
02:13:18 on the selection of the ESCO, we are on contract with
02:13:22 what I told you before that will have the ESCO
02:13:25 selected by the end of the year and expect to come to
02:13:27 you early in 2010 with their initial contract.
02:13:30 And again this is a contractor who will come in,
02:13:32 evaluate our facilities, and propose measures that the
02:13:36 savings would fund.
02:13:37 The second item was we had put ow out an RFI seeking
02:13:43 information on vendors and products and services and
02:13:47 those kinds of things that we might incorporate into
02:13:51 our facilities and into our programs, and particularly
02:13:54 those that potentially bring grants or funding with
02:13:58 That RFI closed about ten days ago.
02:14:02 It was advertised nationally.
02:14:04 We only had 16 responses.
02:14:09 I had looked at -- we are just now getting into
02:14:12 reviewing them.
02:14:12 I looked at all of them, at least cursorily, and they
02:14:16 are sort of a mix of what you might expect.
02:14:19 There are a few very good submittals that really
02:14:22 warrant some further examination.
02:14:26 There are other folks who didn't follow direction and
02:14:28 just submitted to submit stuff.
02:14:30 So we will be reviewing those.
02:14:31 We have the ability in this RFI to go back to them and
02:14:35 get more information.
02:14:37 And it looks like we may have one or two of those that
02:14:40 have some things of interest to us.
02:14:42 Significantly, there was very little solar response to
02:14:48 The third thing that was going was, we have entered
02:14:53 into discussion was the University of South Florida
02:14:54 power center for utility explorations.
02:14:56 They are the folks that are dealing with TECO and the
02:15:02 pilot project up at the zoo.
02:15:03 We are looking at some things that are a little more
02:15:05 ambitious even than that project, and as I reported to
02:15:09 you last time, we don't want to talk too specifically
02:15:12 about what we are looking at because we are going for
02:15:14 competitive grants on those.
02:15:16 I will tell you that those discussions have continued,
02:15:20 and we first started looking primarily in the public
02:15:23 works arena.
02:15:24 We are now looking at some opportunities in some of
02:15:27 our parks to do some things we are not doing now.
02:15:30 And we look forward to coming back to you again, we
02:15:32 think around the first of the year to share with you
02:15:34 some potential projects there that could also bring
02:15:37 funding in order to accomplish them.
02:15:42 The last thing that I spoke to you about previously is
02:15:44 there's an opportunity at the Howard Curren plant for
02:15:48 what's called a gasification project.
02:15:52 Currently, the way that we dispose of sludge is
02:15:55 20-year-old technology that's on its last legs.
02:15:59 There are some folks out there who will come in and
02:16:01 turnkey, put us with some systems that dispose of that
02:16:06 sludge by converting it to heat and electric energy.
02:16:09 And this is a big project.
02:16:12 This is tens of millions of dollars.
02:16:15 The interesting and sort of exciting thing about this
02:16:20 is the opportunity that's therein as one that would
02:16:23 not require capital outlay by the city.
02:16:27 We have identified at least a couple of folks
02:16:30 nationally that do this.
02:16:32 We are on the verge, hope to have that before
02:16:35 Thanksgiving, an RFQ, in order to get those proposals
02:16:38 and get that process underway.
02:16:42 And the that sort of updates you on the things we
02:16:46 talked about before.
02:16:46 Be happy to answer any questions.
02:16:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is very exciting.
02:16:51 I recently sat through a variety of presentations by
02:16:54 Florida solar, by -- there are a lot of initiatives
02:16:58 out there, other municipalities are doing it.
02:17:02 Tampa General Hospital has just saved a ton of money
02:17:06 with their conservation initiative.
02:17:08 And I'm confident that we can also.
02:17:10 And I will give you a card.
02:17:12 I want you to talk to the person at TGH because they
02:17:16 are just saving all kinds of money.
02:17:18 But last week Thom Snelling attended a meeting about a
02:17:22 Tampa, St. Petersburg, Pinellas County, Pinellas
02:17:26 County, request from the feds for a very large amount
02:17:28 of money to do conservation both with the city and our
02:17:33 It's a very tight deadline.
02:17:36 We have to agree to cooperate.
02:17:37 They are going to write the application.
02:17:38 We have to get in the by mid December.
02:17:41 I'm hearing your date and thinking you are thinking
02:17:43 more outward.
02:17:44 I really want you to talk to Thom in the next week
02:17:48 about this and getting on board because county be
02:17:50 federal money to enable to us realize these things.
02:17:52 >>> Actually most of those things are appropriately
02:17:55 spearheaded through Thom with us providing support.
02:17:58 These are sort of anomalies that popped up,
02:18:02 opportunities that popped up.
02:18:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My concern is that other
02:18:05 communities have a full time person working on it and
02:18:09 we have part of Thom, we have part of Lauralee, but I
02:18:12 mean this is the time, we have the federal money out
02:18:14 there for the asking, and I just am concerned that we
02:18:19 absolutely put all of our best professional efforts
02:18:21 into securing the money so that we are able to realize
02:18:24 these projects.
02:18:25 It sounds like you have lots of good initiatives.
02:18:27 >> Thanks.
02:18:29 I look forward to your information as well.
02:18:32 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to second that and say,
02:18:35 please, this is some big money we can get, and we have
02:18:38 to turn it around fast.
02:18:40 And anything you can do to help that happen.
02:18:42 >>> Thank you.
02:18:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Now go back to number 93.
02:18:46 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.
02:18:51 C 09-07 is a request to vacate an alley in the
02:18:55 Seminole Heights area of town.
02:18:57 I have a map for the overhead.
02:19:08 It's in the report.
02:19:40 This is in Seminole Heights.
02:19:43 And it is in the local and national historic district.
02:19:45 And on the map, the petitioner's property is outlined
02:19:49 in red and the alley is outlined in yellow, and it
02:19:52 lies between branch and central, and Idlewild and
02:19:57 Clifton avenues.
02:19:58 And I also brought in another map that shows how this
02:20:01 is actually platted.
02:20:04 The plats that made up this block, this was platted as
02:20:11 an alleyway, and other portions, another alleyway was
02:20:20 This is a dead-end alleyway.
02:20:23 And it went to the ARC.
02:20:25 I only got comments from ARC the other day so I wanted
02:20:28 you to have a copy.
02:20:39 I have some pictures of the alley.
02:20:44 The first shot is a picture of an alley from branch.
02:20:48 And you can see it's overgrown.
02:20:51 It's unimproved.
02:20:52 >> That structure is in the alley.
02:20:59 >> I guess it's a bunch.
02:21:00 >> What's out back?
02:21:02 >> Basically nothing.
02:21:03 When you see the petitioner's property, this one here,
02:21:05 this is on the south side of the alley.
02:21:07 And so you can see there's two garages on either side
02:21:10 of it.
02:21:13 But there's nothing in the alley except for that bench
02:21:16 and some trees.
02:21:18 And then there's another shot of petitioner's property
02:21:20 on the south side of the alley.
02:21:24 And this is petitioner's property on the north side of
02:21:27 the alley.
02:21:27 And then I have a couple of shots of the other portion
02:21:29 of the alley that's not being vacated.
02:21:32 And this is the alley -- it's not going to be vacated
02:21:37 and it's the alley for Clifton.
02:21:40 Staff has no objection to the staff and there's no
02:21:42 easements requested and parks did request that they
02:21:44 follow the guidelines of chapter 13 for trees in the
02:21:52 alley to be protected.
02:21:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
02:21:56 >>MARY MULHERN: Could I ask a couple questions?
02:22:05 So the property, the alley is between -- is
02:22:13 perpendicular between branch and Clifton?
02:22:17 >>> Yes.
02:22:17 >> If you are on Clifton and looking toward the alley,
02:22:21 there is no structure there?
02:22:22 It's not two lots?
02:22:24 Is that right?
02:22:25 Or not?
02:22:26 >>> You mean where the alley dead-ends?
02:22:34 >> I'm trying to see the alley looking east from
02:22:39 I have got to get my directions.
02:22:40 >>> That's the actual alley that's going to be closed.
02:22:47 >> That is the alley, the grass part of the alley.
02:22:50 Don't zoom in, zoom out.
02:22:54 So who is petitioning?
02:23:03 Point to me who the petitioner is.
02:23:04 >>> The gentleman owns the property on both sides.
02:23:08 >> Are they both asking for the vacation?
02:23:10 >>> He owns both.
02:23:12 He owns both the properties.
02:23:16 Just to be clear, he owns this -- the alley is about
02:23:19 200 feet long.
02:23:21 His property borders on the east 150 feet and there's
02:23:23 two other owners that back up on this further in.
02:23:28 >> Okay, thanks.
02:23:31 Thank you for explaining it.
02:23:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
02:23:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Anybody in opposition?
02:23:39 >>> My name is Jeff Fernandez.
02:23:41 I'm the owner of the property at 5903 and 5909 North
02:23:46 And that tree lined area is overgrown and hasn't been
02:23:50 used since before the 1960s.
02:23:55 And the trees, the size of the trees that are there,
02:23:58 dictate that.
02:23:58 I mean, it's very large trees.
02:24:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
02:24:02 would like to speak on item 93?
02:24:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
02:24:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
02:24:06 (Motion carried)
02:24:10 >>> Thank you.
02:24:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move an ordinance
02:24:15 vacating closing continuing abandoning certain
02:24:17 right-of-way alley lying south of east Idlewild
02:24:21 Avenue, north of east Clifton street, east of north
02:24:23 branch Avenue, and west of north Central Avenue, on
02:24:26 north Seminole Heights, a subdivision in the city of
02:24:28 Tampa, Florida as more particularly described in
02:24:32 section 2 noting covenants and restrictions more fully
02:24:37 described herein providing an effective date.
02:24:40 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott, Caetano and
02:24:44 Miranda being absent at vote.
02:24:45 Second reading of the ordinance will be held November
02:24:49 19th at 9:30 a.m.
02:24:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
02:24:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If Mr. Chiaramonte could give us a
02:25:00 ten minute version.
02:25:01 We have three appeal hearings.
02:25:03 Two appeal hearings.
02:25:04 And traditionally they take an hour each.
02:25:07 I just don't think it's fair to have --
02:25:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you rather come back?
02:25:15 Would you get with the clerk's office, and -- Mr.
02:25:21 Chiaramonte, would you get with the clerk's office and
02:25:25 come back?
02:25:27 What item is that?
02:25:28 Oh, special discussion?
02:25:29 I don't even need to make a motion.
02:25:31 Thank you.
02:25:31 >>GWEN MILLER: We go to item 94 which is a continued
02:25:37 public hearing.
02:25:37 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Assistant city attorney.
02:25:56 Today you have before you the appeal of the variance
02:25:59 review board's denial of case number VRB-09-55.
02:26:06 The property in this appeal is located at 2602 east
02:26:10 Hillsborough Avenue, and the petitioner is Fifth Third
02:26:15 The variance request was to increase the allowable
02:26:18 wall sign size from zero feet to 61 feet that would
02:26:23 allow for a wall sign not facing the public
02:26:30 Here is a photograph of the wall sign he wishes to
02:26:38 And here is a diagram that indicates -- let me bring
02:26:45 this in a little bit.
02:26:48 It would be going from here in this area that says
02:26:53 That's where they want it to face.
02:26:55 It would be facing this private drive.
02:26:57 That's not a public street.
02:27:02 The applicable code, city code, is section
02:27:05 20.5-13-C-2, which regulates building signs and office
02:27:11 commercial and industrial districts.
02:27:14 And if council would like I can provide a copy of that
02:27:17 Would you like that?
02:27:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
02:27:21 >>> I was going to direct everybody to that
02:27:53 And 20.5-13 C-2, there's a subsection A, which is --
02:28:04 that's what limits the number of allowable building
02:28:08 And limits it to one for single -- double frontage
02:28:17 parcels shall be allowed one sign per street.
02:28:23 As I pointed out earlier, the issue here is that
02:28:26 driveway is not considered street frontage.
02:28:29 The Variance Review Board voted to deny the
02:28:31 application by a vote of 4-3 on the basis that the
02:28:35 petitioner did not show a hardship or practical
02:28:39 difficulty to warrant the second sign facing the
02:28:41 private drive that was not a public street.
02:28:46 At this time, I will turn the podium over to Mr --
02:28:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Wait, can I ask a question?
02:28:52 I am looking at this map.
02:28:53 It appears where it says A-1, is that the initial
02:28:57 >>ERNEST MUELLER: No.
02:28:58 A-1 is a pylon sign.
02:29:04 It's allowable.
02:29:05 >> Is it a pylon sign that identifies the bank?
02:29:08 >>> Yes they will be able to show you a picture of
02:29:16 that sign.
02:29:18 Right here is a building sign that is facing
02:29:23 Here --
02:29:24 >> So it's the third sign that's in question?
02:29:27 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Yes.
02:29:29 This one here is the one we are looking at.
02:29:32 Is there any other questions us what before I turn the
02:29:35 podium over to the representative?
02:29:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Before we continue, council, just to
02:29:38 have remind you, your standard of review under 27-373,
02:29:44 that you should determine whether the board decision
02:29:46 was supported by competent, substantial evidence,
02:29:49 whether due process was accorded, and whether the
02:29:52 essential requirements of law had been observed.
02:29:55 Additionally, council, to refresh your recollection on
02:29:57 this case and the case that follows, I am giving you a
02:30:01 copy of section 17.574, the application of the
02:30:06 variance power with the criteria.
02:30:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
02:30:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I understand this is our first
02:30:56 meeting back with our closed captioner.
02:30:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
02:30:59 It's much better.
02:30:59 >> So I think we all want to welcome him or her back
02:31:02 and thank them for the good job that they do.
02:31:05 If you want to say anything, you can type it out.
02:31:07 >> Hello everybody!
02:31:10 It's good to be back.
02:31:18 >>> Thank you.
02:31:28 Good afternoon, council members.
02:31:29 I'm Mike Chalk with Sign Star, 7720 U.S. 301 North
02:31:33 here in Tampa representing Fifth Third Bank.
02:31:36 This bank is located on east Hillsborough area in the
02:31:39 east Hillsborough redevelopment area.
02:31:43 Actually, Meridian Points development.
02:31:47 And the bank branch serving all of east Hillsborough
02:31:52 area, and the community bond are served by the common
02:31:58 entryway here.
02:31:59 We asked that a sign be allowed on the west elevation
02:32:03 of this building.
02:32:07 On a feature that would allow the people that are
02:32:10 served by this communities and that this bank in term
02:32:14 serves to access the bank in a safe manner.
02:32:17 As it stands today, there are traffic considerations
02:32:22 on Hillsborough Avenue.
02:32:24 We have an entrance, primary entrance into our bank
02:32:27 that comes off of this developed private road, into
02:32:30 the bank, and is primarily back into Meridian.
02:32:34 There is a secondary entrance, it's located down here,
02:32:39 past the bank.
02:32:43 There is our median before this entrance here.
02:32:45 And this creates a situation -- a situation that makes
02:32:51 it for folks traveling eastbound, coming am out from
02:32:55 There's a choice point.
02:32:56 A choice point is where the turn to this bank occurs
02:33:02 well before you see of this pylon sign located after
02:33:04 the bank building, so to speak.
02:33:06 If I may, could I pull a photograph up and show you?
02:33:11 This is more or less a close-up showing the bank in
02:33:17 detail here.
02:33:18 We have an existing letter -- facing Hillsborough
02:33:24 Down here, using the railroad tracks, is a small pylon
02:33:28 sign, 50 square feet, purchase the current sign code
02:33:32 in Tampa.
02:33:33 Our entrance, our shared common entryway is here, and
02:33:38 if you like, go right back in here.
02:33:41 What we are hoping to have do by allowing this sign on
02:33:44 the west side of the building is for public safety
02:33:49 turn people into this bank in a timely fashion,
02:33:52 address them with signage and identification, that
02:33:54 they can see from a reasonable distance.
02:33:58 There is a long left turn lane that runs in front of
02:34:01 the drive-in theater, and allows you to turn into the
02:34:06 developed private road.
02:34:07 It serves both communities and the bank branch and
02:34:10 gets you to their main entrance.
02:34:12 This, you are traveling down Hillsborough Avenue.
02:34:15 If you don't make that turn, you will pass the bank.
02:34:18 You will cross the railroad tracks.
02:34:20 And you will go down by the state trooper's office for
02:34:23 a U-turn in order to come back and grab this.
02:34:26 It's way down here.
02:34:27 We are asking for a sign that will allow to be
02:34:30 identified, the folks coming to turn into this turn
02:34:33 lane in a timely fashion, in a safe fashion as well.
02:34:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So the record is clear, the pictures
02:34:38 you are showing City Council was also shown to the
02:34:42 >>> Yes, sir.
02:34:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
02:34:53 >> I stood out on Hillsborough Avenue and took a
02:34:58 couple of pictures to show you what the situation is.
02:35:06 This is the choice point basically.
02:35:08 As we are proceeding eastbound on Hillsborough Avenue
02:35:10 which I think most of the traffic will be doing, turn
02:35:15 in here.
02:35:15 We need to make a choice right here, 450 feet away.
02:35:25 This pie ton feature is an ideal place to put some
02:35:30 identification allowing people to recognize and
02:35:32 understand they should turn into the shared common
02:35:34 entryway, and in fact functions as their street, the
02:35:38 front of their bank faces towards.
02:35:41 Let's look at another one that's a little closer.
02:35:45 This is eastbound traffic from about 100 feet away.
02:35:49 Clearly the feature is there, and it's the place to
02:35:53 puts a sign, allowing people to have see the bank
02:35:55 building, know where they are going, turn in in a
02:35:59 timely and safe manner.
02:36:00 We would ask you to reconsider the Variance Review
02:36:03 Board's decision on this, allow this sign to be placed
02:36:08 in light of this shared common entryway road
02:36:11 functioning as a public street, and allow a sign to be
02:36:15 placed on the west elevation.
02:36:17 Thank you.
02:36:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions by council?
02:36:20 >>MARY MULHERN: I just had a question.
02:36:23 The sign, would it be illuminated?
02:36:26 >>> Yes, ma'am.
02:36:27 It's proposed to.
02:36:28 >>MARY MULHERN: So that would be additional to
02:36:30 illumination to what's on the tower now?
02:36:34 >>> Yes, ma'am.
02:36:36 >>MARY MULHERN: And the letters are going to be --
02:36:40 they will be just regular letters?
02:36:41 It's not going to be electronic?
02:36:45 >>> Activated sign?
02:36:48 No, ma'am.
02:36:49 >>MARY MULHERN: I just mean lighting up.
02:36:51 That's exactly the type of lettering you are going to
02:37:00 Are those the same -- is that Photoshopped or is that
02:37:04 another branch?
02:37:06 Oh, that's what's on the other side?
02:37:08 >>> Well, this is the west elevation.
02:37:11 >> Okay, Photoshopped.
02:37:13 >>> I understand the elevation facing Hillsborough
02:37:16 does have a sign exactly the same size.
02:37:18 It's been legally permitted and installed.
02:37:21 If you turn back to the -- these are individual
02:37:26 letters being similar in construction, illuminated
02:37:31 with L.E.D. illumination.
02:37:34 >> And lit up.
02:37:36 And looks like the third one is, too.
02:37:38 >> Yes.
02:37:39 >> Is it real?
02:37:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Photoshopped.
02:37:42 >>> I'm sorry.
02:37:47 Yes, that is a photograph there.
02:37:50 The sign does not yet at this date exist.
02:37:55 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm a graphic designer.
02:37:58 So you Photoshopped the image of the -- the logo and
02:38:02 the letters onto the actual building that you are
02:38:05 asking for the variance?
02:38:06 >>> That's correct.
02:38:07 That is my photograph with corral draw imagery imposed
02:38:14 upon it.
02:38:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
02:38:19 Did any of your photographs that you presented to the
02:38:21 VRB -- because we are not supposed to listen to new
02:38:24 evidence -- show the pylon sign any better than the
02:38:28 long distance shots that you had?
02:38:30 >>> No, sir.
02:38:32 These are what I showed the VRB.
02:38:36 Would you like me to set one back up?
02:38:39 >> If could you pass it up here, perhaps the street
02:38:42 scene, because -- I'm not familiar with the pylon
02:38:47 I think one of the issues that was raised in the
02:38:49 transcript in the VRB is they said that you hadn't met
02:38:51 the hardship to say why you need additional western
02:38:56 You are making the argument that the pylon sign
02:39:00 doesn't cut the mustard, so to speak.
02:39:05 Also I would like to see what the pylon sign looks
02:39:14 Point to it.
02:39:20 I guess that makes the point.
02:39:21 All right.
02:39:22 Where is it?
02:39:22 Point to it.
02:39:40 >>> That doesn't light up?
02:39:45 >> Does it light up in the day?
02:39:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So it's 50 square feet.
02:39:54 Five by ten perhaps?
02:39:55 >>> Yes.
02:40:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: One other question, Mr. Chairman.
02:40:10 I guess you're back.
02:40:12 Was there any discussion about at the VRB about -- I
02:40:17 mean, you're not a convenience store, somewhere some
02:40:22 stranger driving down the street.
02:40:24 So it's, boy, I need a Slurpee, and whereof is the
02:40:29 next convenience store?
02:40:31 You know what I'm saying?
02:40:32 You're a specific bank with specific customers who
02:40:36 already know where you are.
02:40:39 So I guess did that discussion come up at all with the
02:40:46 >>> I don't know that the Variance Review Board
02:40:49 directly addressed that.
02:40:50 I would respond that this bank serve it is East Tampa
02:40:54 community, and that identifying the facility for the
02:40:59 citizenry in that part of town is a valuable thing to
02:41:05 be achieved.
02:41:05 >> So you might be trying to attract new customers or
02:41:10 people who just want to cash a check that might not be
02:41:12 a customer already or something like that?
02:41:14 >>> Yes, sir.
02:41:16 From my experience.
02:41:17 I bank with all the branches at my bank in my travels.
02:41:20 And it's good for me to be able to find them and turn
02:41:24 into them.
02:41:25 I don't know exactly where they all are.
02:41:27 I go by looking for signs.
02:41:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
02:41:41 >>> Spencer Kass.
02:41:43 I think somehow we got off track from where we are
02:41:46 supposed to be.
02:41:47 This is an appeal of the Variance Review Board.
02:41:50 Their burden is to prove that the Variance Review
02:41:52 Board didn't follow the criteria. The first criteria
02:41:56 under the package is that the alleged hardship or
02:41:59 practical difficulty is unique and singular with
02:42:01 respect to the property.
02:42:04 Unique and singular with respect to the property.
02:42:05 Way testified to at the previous hearing is that those
02:42:10 medians prosecutor put down Hillsborough Avenue.
02:42:12 Every one of us including myself on Hillsborough
02:42:16 Avenue suffers from the exact same problem.
02:42:18 Their problem is they don't have enough signage.
02:42:23 Everyone in the city has that.
02:42:25 When you passed the sign code I had that.
02:42:27 I asked you not to do it.
02:42:28 This comes back to a very simple point.
02:42:30 They want more signage and they feel entitled to it.
02:42:33 So my question to you is, what is the unique and
02:42:35 singular hardship that this appellant suffers from?
02:42:40 The answer is there is none.
02:42:41 You can review this transcript a hundred different
02:42:43 times. We scanned it in and search for it every time
02:42:47 they address that issue.
02:42:48 The VRB said there is nothing.
02:42:52 At one point in the testimony, well, the tree blocks
02:42:56 Is that causing you a problem?
02:42:58 We don't have a problem because of the trees.
02:42:59 The truth is they want more signage because they want
02:43:02 more signage.
02:43:02 At some point you got into this argument that, well,
02:43:05 this is kind of like a road, this drive isle.
02:43:08 How is it a drive isle?
02:43:10 So we are all clear neither the VRB nor the council
02:43:13 has the right to declare a drive isle a road.
02:43:15 The only person who gets to declare a road is the
02:43:18 transportation division through the technical manual.
02:43:21 So I don't even understand the basis for the appeal.
02:43:24 They are basically giving the exact same story for the
02:43:28 They are not saying the VRB made a mistake, the VRB
02:43:31 made an error, that the VRB violated due process.
02:43:34 They are just saying we want more signage.
02:43:37 I think it's great that they are out there.
02:43:38 I told them I would stand up here in front of this
02:43:40 council and argue the sign code should be changed.
02:43:42 But this isn't the appropriate time to do it.
02:43:45 If this council resumes they are entitled to more
02:43:47 signage, that you don't have to have a unique and
02:43:49 singular hardship, you can just meet one of the other
02:43:52 criteria, I have no problem with.
02:43:54 That but I want all of us to be treated the same.
02:43:57 If I stand up here, or at later hearings, any of those
02:44:00 applicants stand up and they only prove one of these
02:44:02 conditions for a variance, that we are entitled to our
02:44:06 It shouldn't be that extensive to stand up and you
02:44:09 have to meet all five, and they don't have to meet any
02:44:12 of them.
02:44:12 So I just respectfully submit that you stick to the
02:44:15 letter of the law, or the surrounding that you don't
02:44:18 have to use all five of the criteria and any one of
02:44:22 the criteria will suffice for a variance.
02:44:24 Thank you.
02:44:27 >> You don't have to meet all five of the criteria.
02:44:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you want clarification?
02:44:42 >>> I was going to clarify, one of the five criteria,
02:44:50 >> You don't even have to meet one of them because we
02:44:52 drafted the language.
02:44:53 >>> Has to be considered.
02:44:56 >> All of them have to be considered but you don't
02:44:58 have to meet any of them.
02:44:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close --
02:45:07 >> Well, rebuttal.
02:45:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Sir, you have three minutes to
02:45:10 >>> Thank you.
02:45:14 We ask council to alter the VRB's decision, change
02:45:29 that VRB decision.
02:45:30 It seems to me that the street, that's a driveway here
02:45:37 but in fact serve that is community and serves this
02:45:39 bank and is a developed private road, offers the
02:45:45 possibility for a sign to be placed on that side, if
02:45:48 it were considered a street.
02:45:49 If in fact there was a street there, municipal street
02:45:55 sign out there, we would not be before you today.
02:45:57 We would permit our sign legally.
02:46:01 It meets all the other criteria of the sign code.
02:46:03 And it would be serving its function which is to
02:46:05 safely direct folks into this bank branch that serve
02:46:08 that is east Hillsborough community.
02:46:10 We would ask for your interpretation of this developed
02:46:16 private road that it would be considered as
02:46:19 functioning as a street, and allow this sign to
02:46:22 correctly identify this bank, allowing safe entry from
02:46:26 the dedicated turn lane from Hillsborough Avenue.
02:46:29 Thank you.
02:46:29 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Is that a two-sided sign?
02:46:37 >>> The pylon sign down at the extreme east of the
02:46:40 property single-family a double-faced sign, sir.
02:46:42 >>MARY MULHERN: My question -- this is a brand new
02:46:49 building, right?
02:46:50 >>> Yes, it is.
02:46:51 >>MARY MULHERN: And was there an existing sign for a
02:46:55 former business there?
02:46:59 Did you consider putting the sign maybe midway between
02:47:04 the traffic east and a westbound traffic so that it
02:47:06 would be closer?
02:47:10 >>> Well, as a sign contractor, I liked placing it on
02:47:15 the corner there and there was not a place available.
02:47:18 It required driveways, it required plantations.
02:47:21 The space including a visibilities try angle, it
02:47:26 pushed the sign to the full end of the property.
02:47:28 The pole sign serves westbound traffic.
02:47:32 Those coming from eastbound around the railroad track,
02:47:35 no argument with that.
02:47:37 It's working down there.
02:47:38 Just doesn't work for those folks, those many folks
02:47:40 coming from 275.
02:47:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Could you put the picture that you
02:47:45 brought up, put it up there for a minute again?
02:47:47 Because it looked to me like there was a lot of --
02:48:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Between the bank and the railroad
02:48:13 >>MARY MULHERN: The far right as we look at that
02:48:18 I still don't understand.
02:48:19 There are some trees.
02:48:20 But it also looks like there's some low shrubbery.
02:48:23 Maybe the trees would have been block the -- I'm
02:48:32 asking him a question.
02:48:33 Are you saying that the trees -- that picture, it's
02:48:38 hard to tell from this picture because the dark is so
02:48:41 Where the sign is.
02:48:43 But you can't really tell where the trees are from
02:48:46 this angle either.
02:48:48 But the problem with putting the sign midway instead
02:48:51 of way to the east or west -- is it west or east?
02:48:57 >> Way off to the east end of the property.
02:48:59 >>MARY MULHERN: I still don't -- it looks like they
02:49:02 are somewhere in there you could have put it.
02:49:13 >>> Again, our visibility, the setbacks, the sign was
02:49:17 in the driveway.
02:49:19 The trees got there before we did on the approved
02:49:22 landscape plan.
02:49:37 >> Move to close.
02:49:38 >> Second.
02:49:38 (Motion carried).
02:49:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question to legal.
02:49:44 Marty, or you guys.
02:49:47 It's interesting.
02:49:48 But let's clarify the standard.
02:49:52 If I disagree with the VRB factually, all right, but I
02:49:57 think they might have made a different decision than I
02:50:00 might have from my judgment perspective or factual
02:50:02 perspective, that's not necessarily enough, is it, to
02:50:06 reverse based upon our currents standards?
02:50:09 Is that correct?
02:50:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Certiorari standard, the answer is
02:50:12 no, you are not to reweigh the evidence but in effect
02:50:15 you look at the evidence that they did consider, and
02:50:17 was it competent and was it substantial?
02:50:19 That being the case, then there is a basis to uphold
02:50:22 their decision.
02:50:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's what I am looking at.
02:50:26 If I am sitting on the VRB, I sort of looked at it
02:50:30 from a practical perspective and said, all right, I
02:50:34 guess I can see what his point is.
02:50:36 But the way our appellant standard is right now, until
02:50:40 we change it, I don't know if it's enough, and Marty
02:50:43 is saying it's not enough to do that because the three
02:50:45 standards that we have to deal with are --
02:50:51 >>> Whether the board decision was supported by
02:50:54 competent evidence, whether due process was accorded
02:50:56 and with the essential requirements of law have been
02:50:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In light of that I might have a
02:51:02 hard time reversing it.
02:51:05 Just because I think they did their job I would
02:51:07 disagree with their conclusion.
02:51:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to the say I echo his
02:51:18 I understand what Mr. Dingfelder is saying.
02:51:19 If there was a way to do this I would change it.
02:51:22 But I don't think under the present condition that we
02:51:24 have, and the way these things are written, there's
02:51:27 very little wiggle room to say that under the criteria
02:51:34 presently available to us to overturn the Variance
02:51:36 Review Board.
02:51:37 >>GWEN MILLER: I don't see why we can't overturn it.
02:51:42 I know it's not a street.
02:51:43 But it's a public use.
02:51:44 And a lot of people in that area use that driveway,
02:51:48 whatever we want to call it.
02:51:49 But as you drive east and west on Hillsborough, if you
02:51:53 don't know that bank is there, you continue to pass it
02:51:57 And I would like --
02:51:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can then, let me direct your
02:52:01 attention to 17.5-74 sub-1.
02:52:06 If what you are saying is based on your review of the
02:52:09 transcript you see an alleged hardship and it's unique
02:52:11 and singular with respect to this property and can
02:52:14 articulate that, and say that that was not properly
02:52:17 applied to the VRB, then that could be a basis if
02:52:20 there is a factual basis to support that being unique.
02:52:24 Otherwise you run into the same problem that Mr. Kass
02:52:26 raised that if you just say there is no hardship, that
02:52:29 it does open the door in fairness I shall to you every
02:52:32 other property that faces it.
02:52:34 If you based on the record can articulate the basis
02:52:37 for the granting of a variance, then one could make
02:52:43 that argue full-time that's council's pleasure.
02:52:45 >>GWEN MILLER: That is my argument.
02:52:46 And I am going to articulate it.
02:52:49 But that drive -- it is used more for anyone else and
02:53:01 the people going back and forth, I feel like when you
02:53:03 are traveling east and west on Hillsborough and didn't
02:53:06 know that bank was there, they wouldn't have any more
02:53:10 patrons and that's why the bank is to serve East
02:53:12 Tampa, and if it's not known they would not serve East
02:53:15 Tampa, and this is a bank we have been waiting to get
02:53:17 there, and I would like to make a motion that we
02:53:19 overturn the VRB's decision, because I feel like it
02:53:23 would be an asset to that community to know that that
02:53:26 bank is there, and when the people turn, but if
02:53:29 there's not a street but it is a driveway, you will
02:53:31 know that that bank is there and you can turn in and
02:53:34 go into that bank.
02:53:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just add to that, the
02:53:39 uniqueness is the railroad track and the pylon making
02:53:43 it hard to turn in so that is the uniqueness and the
02:53:45 hardship, which he didn't really articulate as he
02:53:49 should, but that is very well it.
02:53:51 You have to know that area.
02:53:52 You have to know what's there.
02:53:53 I drive that every -- I came back from there.
02:53:58 You have to know where the railroad tracks are.
02:54:00 You have to know the pylon sign.
02:54:02 If you are not familiar, and you don't see that.
02:54:09 >> Mr. Chairman, I went to the ribbon cutting.
02:54:16 I really didn't know write was going.
02:54:18 I passed the bank.
02:54:22 They need a sign there.
02:54:23 And the people all spoke, all the residents who were
02:54:26 there, and the mayor was there, there were a lot of
02:54:29 people there.
02:54:30 They need recognition.
02:54:32 So it can be recognized.
02:54:34 Some guy is not going to be down saying, well, I am
02:54:38 going to stick my money in there.
02:54:40 He's going to go in there with an intent.
02:54:42 And this will identify, and it will alleviate a lot of
02:54:45 traffic problems.
02:54:46 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question.
02:54:51 I guess this is for Marty.
02:54:52 But Chairman Scott was mentioning the railroad.
02:54:55 But if that wasn't mentioned in the -- as a hardship,
02:55:00 if that wasn't cited as hardship in the original, you
02:55:04 know, variance review board hearing, can we base the
02:55:09 decision on that?
02:55:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You probably can take judicial
02:55:14 notice of the railroad track.
02:55:15 It's been there for a hundred years or more.
02:55:17 >>MARY MULHERN: But if they are basing their
02:55:21 decision --
02:55:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe -- I have a vague
02:55:30 Mr. Mueller?
02:55:31 >>ERNEST MUELLER: The railroad tracks was certainly
02:55:35 testified to.
02:55:38 >>GWEN MILLER: I call for the question.
02:55:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't believe there was a motion.
02:55:43 >>GWEN MILLER: I made a motion.
02:55:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So the motion so I hear it again is
02:55:48 to overturn the decision of the board and Grand grant
02:55:52 the variance based on the uniqueness and sing later
02:55:58 with respect to that property?
02:56:01 >> Yes.
02:56:01 That's correct.
02:56:02 It's been moved and seconded.
02:56:03 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
02:56:08 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and
02:56:11 Saul-Sena voting no.
02:56:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Again just to make the record clear,
02:56:18 the decision is then with regard to your standard of
02:56:22 review whether the essential requirements of law
02:56:24 everybody observed in the application of the hardship
02:56:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
02:56:30 >>> Thank you very much, council members.
02:56:32 I appreciate it.
02:56:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 95.
02:57:07 >> Thank you.
02:57:09 And good afternoon.
02:57:26 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Assistant city attorney.
02:57:30 You have before you the a peel of the Variance Review
02:57:31 Board's denial of case VRB-09-57.
02:57:38 The property in this appeal is located at 908 east
02:57:42 25th Avenue, and the petitioners are Jason
02:57:45 Goodrich and Alexei Gonzalez.
02:57:49 The property is located in the east Tampa overlay
02:57:52 The variance requests were to reduce the rear yard
02:57:56 setback from 15 feet to zero feet and reduce the side
02:57:59 yard setback from five feet to zero feet, to remodel
02:58:04 an existing burned structure located at the rear of
02:58:06 the property.
02:58:08 Here are some photographs that are going to depict
02:58:11 that existing structure.
02:58:15 This is the property from the front and we are talking
02:58:20 about this structure back here.
02:58:23 And here is a photograph of the same structure from
02:58:26 the back.
02:58:30 It's this structure again right here.
02:58:33 That's the property line.
02:58:38 The applicable city code is section 27-465 subsection
02:58:45 E which regulates densities and setbacks in the east
02:58:48 overlay -- East Tampa overlay district, and again if
02:58:53 council would like a section of 27-465 I can provide
02:58:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can I ask a quick question?
02:59:00 Did this come before us for a rezoning in the last few
02:59:07 It looks really, really, really familiar.
02:59:08 >>> It looks like it does, yes.
02:59:11 I wasn't aware of that.
02:59:13 Did you want a copy of section 27-465?
02:59:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
02:59:17 Thank you.
02:59:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions for Mr. Mueller?
02:59:41 >> I'll point out where the sections are and then I'll
02:59:45 turn it over.
02:59:46 Subsection 1-B of 27-465-E designates rear-yard
02:59:53 setbacks to be 15 feet and side yard setbacks to be 5
02:59:57 The Variance Review Board voted to deny the
03:00:00 application by a vote of 4-3 on the basis that the
03:00:04 hardship criteria had not been met.
03:00:08 As a reminder there can be no new evidence presented
03:00:12 Your actions will be based solely upon the record
03:00:14 created at the variance review board hearing.
03:00:16 And at this time I'll turn the podium over to Mr.
03:00:20 Goodrich to present the appellant's case.
03:00:23 >> My name is Jason Goodrich.
03:00:34 I'm here today to appeal the VRB's decision a month
03:01:11 and a half ago about allowing us to remodel this
03:01:18 First of all, if you can see from the picture here,
03:01:22 and it is known that many of the houses within the
03:01:26 subdivision, within this area, have additional
03:01:29 structures that fit on the property line.
03:01:32 This is not my house, but it is my neighbor's house.
03:01:35 I live two doors down.
03:01:37 And I have a garage that sits on the property line.
03:01:45 In fact 11 of the 15 houses on our street have an
03:01:50 accessory structure, whether a garage, or carport, or
03:01:54 some type of building that sits on the property line.
03:02:01 When you came here originally to speak, we came here
03:02:09 to address the setbacks of the property line.
03:02:17 The new property codes do not take into consideration
03:02:20 the hundreds of structures that were already built
03:02:25 prior to these new codes coming in to play.
03:02:30 We had discussed the -- at the original meeting, we
03:02:37 had talked about the reason why we wanted to remodel
03:02:44 the structure.
03:02:45 We had spoke about the current use and the previous
03:02:54 The hardship, I believe that we have here, we have a
03:02:57 family, we have people who are still using the
03:03:01 It's structurally sound.
03:03:02 It's burnt on the inside.
03:03:05 It's not about to fall over.
03:03:08 People have been in it and said, hey, it's perfect,
03:03:13 it's structurally sound.
03:03:15 The simple fact is the owners want to remodel it.
03:03:18 They want to paint the outside.
03:03:20 They want to put drywall up.
03:03:22 They want to basically just remodel the structure.
03:03:29 Previously, years ago, before 2005, this was an
03:03:35 additional structure in a rental unit for use as a
03:03:37 rental unit.
03:03:39 It had a separate meter on it.
03:03:40 It was a separate address.
03:03:43 At one point, somebody wanted to change it to --
03:03:48 change the zoning to a PD, planned unit development.
03:03:55 This is not the case here.
03:03:57 We are not interested in changing the zoning.
03:03:59 We are not interested in changing the use of the
03:04:06 We simply want to remodel the structure.
03:04:10 Originally when Wii we came in, there was people on
03:04:14 the board, who they would not consider what we are
03:04:18 here for, which was the issue of the setbacks.
03:04:22 They only wanted to talk about the previous use.
03:04:25 It's already been established that we cannot put a
03:04:27 meter on this.
03:04:28 We have no intentions on putting a meter on this
03:04:32 We have no intentions of putting a separate kitchen in
03:04:34 this building.
03:04:35 They have no intentions of putting whatever else they
03:04:40 need to do to make it a separate residence.
03:04:43 That is not the case at all.
03:04:45 We are simply trying to remodel the structure.
03:04:49 One with of the issues we had -- or one of the main
03:04:54 issues was the board kept continuously talking about
03:04:56 the previous use of the building.
03:04:58 It was a rental unit.
03:04:59 It was a separate place.
03:05:01 I can't stress enough that they are simply talking
03:05:05 about the wrong issue.
03:05:09 Talking about because it where it was located.
03:05:11 If we could pick this building up and move it over
03:05:14 three feet, we wouldn't be here today.
03:05:18 The second issue is the fact that somebody from the
03:05:22 community came up, Pete Johnson, claimed that he was a
03:05:27 representative from the neighborhood association.
03:05:30 Well, as I subsequently -- as I found out, he doesn't
03:05:34 live in our neighborhood.
03:05:37 And a he did not represent the neighborhood
03:05:40 association on that day.
03:05:44 He also wrote a letter telling the Variance Review
03:05:49 Board that the neighborhood association had already
03:05:55 spoke about this, and I have a copy of the letter
03:05:57 right here.
03:05:59 He put the president of the neighborhood association's
03:06:01 name on the letter as if she drafted it, which she had
03:06:05 no idea about this letter.
03:06:10 And again he came across that the neighborhood wanted
03:06:12 the building torn down, which is not the case.
03:06:15 Living two doors down from there, I can tell you, I
03:06:18 spoke to all of the neighbors around here, were all
03:06:21 very much aware of what's going on, and we could not
03:06:26 believe that our neighbor can't remodel this huge
03:06:28 structure sitting on the back of his property.
03:06:31 They can use it.
03:06:32 They can go in and out of it.
03:06:34 But it's still burnt up.
03:06:37 It still smells pretty bad in there.
03:06:43 So that is our second issue that we have with the
03:06:45 Variance Review Board's previous decision.
03:06:53 Another thing I wanted to mention was that the
03:07:01 variance -- that the decision to change the -- when a
03:07:06 property burns down or is no longer in use, they have
03:07:09 only six months before they can remodel that structure
03:07:14 or fix it back up, put it back to standards, or they
03:07:16 have to change the use, or they have to bring up the
03:07:19 current codes.
03:07:21 But somebody who recently lost a house to a fire, I
03:07:25 can tell you that it takes at least six months to get
03:07:28 through the insurance process.
03:07:32 So it really doesn't allow for even enough time to get
03:07:37 to a spot where you can have plans drawn.
03:07:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I apologize for being out
03:07:52 of the room.
03:07:52 It appears that you have been handed things that are
03:07:54 not in the record.
03:07:55 Those are things that took place subsequent to the
03:07:58 Variance Review Board.
03:08:00 Is that correct?
03:08:01 >>> What is that?
03:08:02 >> Papers that you handed out to City Council?
03:08:04 >>> I was unaware that somebody from the regional
03:08:08 meeting came and claimed that the neighborhood
03:08:11 association was aware.
03:08:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So what you are saying then is what
03:08:15 you handed to them is something that was not
03:08:17 considered by the Variance Review Board?
03:08:21 >>MARY MULHERN: These are not from the petitioner.
03:08:23 These are from the neighborhood association, I
03:08:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I see.
03:08:27 I apologize.
03:08:27 >>MARY MULHERN: We just got it in our mailbox.
03:08:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I am going to caution all
03:08:41 parties, I understand your argument, sir.
03:08:44 We can deal we've that when it comes to deliberation
03:08:46 and how best to deal with that.
03:08:48 But if you can, again, I think you are doing what you
03:08:53 are doing to set forth what the problems were with the
03:08:56 VRB with the arguments, why the VRB case is in error,
03:09:01 >>> Exactly.
03:09:01 >> If you could just state what that evidence -- and
03:09:04 I'm also referring to Mr. Johnson when he speaks.
03:09:07 I expect he's going to, to talk about the evidence
03:09:10 that was presented at the VRB.
03:09:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Marty, real quick, there's three
03:09:18 or four pieces handed to me. I looked at the date
03:09:21 November 3rd. I realized this was late evidence.
03:09:24 I didn't read it.
03:09:25 I want to hand to the you.
03:09:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Why don't you give it to the clerk?
03:09:31 I suspects it's probably what I have in this envelope.
03:09:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I will do whatever you want me to,
03:09:36 either a you or the clerk.
03:09:38 I don't think Ms. Mulhern read it either.
03:09:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I am going to caution council
03:09:43 against reading it.
03:09:44 If you have read it, please disregard it and not let
03:09:47 it affect your decision.
03:09:48 >>MARY MULHERN: I scanned it.
03:09:51 I disregarded it.
03:09:52 Because of the date.
03:09:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
03:09:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: For the record, I don't have that
03:09:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
03:10:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Continue.
03:10:05 >>> The simple fact is, Pete Johnson came, claimed he
03:10:08 was a representative of the neighborhood association,
03:10:14 completely blew me away.
03:10:15 He was not on any of my lists.
03:10:17 I did not find him in the neighborhood before the
03:10:20 I later found out that he doesn't live within ten
03:10:22 mails of the neighborhood.
03:10:24 I went to the neighborhood association.
03:10:27 They voted 13 to 1 in favor of us, allowing us to
03:10:33 remodel the structure.
03:10:35 So it was a full -- everybody was in favor of it
03:10:37 except for one person.
03:10:45 How could it possibly have been issued when I didn't
03:10:47 know the person was fabricating?
03:10:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Okay, sir is, if you could not talk
03:10:56 about testimony that's outside the record and about
03:11:01 what you believe --
03:11:03 Sir, what they are trying to tell you, they are
03:11:05 talking all this legal terminology.
03:11:06 You can't talk about anything --
03:11:08 >>> I understand that.
03:11:08 >> Let me finish.
03:11:10 You can't talk about anything that you did not say at
03:11:12 the variance review hearing.
03:11:15 Anything outside of what happened in the last few days
03:11:17 outside, you cannot talk about it here today.
03:11:20 You have to stay within whatever was said at that
03:11:22 meeting or that hearing.
03:11:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Okay.
03:11:25 I just have a quick question for the attorney.
03:11:27 If I had come to the original meeting and said that
03:11:29 the mayor was strongly behind us remodeling it, so was
03:11:35 President Obama and everybody else, and it turned out
03:11:37 it was all a lie, and I fabricated all of that, could
03:11:41 that not be construed as, hey, I misrepresented myself
03:11:45 and I had lied to the board and should that not be
03:11:48 brought up?
03:11:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The issue, sir -- well, you are
03:11:53 inferring a lot into that statement.
03:11:54 Whether it's a lie or whether it's a mistake.
03:11:57 Could be significant.
03:11:59 But what you are doing is what you are saying is, what
03:12:01 you are arguing to the council now is that you believe
03:12:04 is the basis of error.
03:12:05 Is that correct?
03:12:06 >>> That is one of the bases, yes.
03:12:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Okay.
03:12:10 Why don't you continue?
03:12:11 >>> So basically, the board made their decision based
03:12:15 on the testimony of Pete Johnson, and they also --
03:12:20 which was incorrect.
03:12:23 They did not make -- did he not make correct
03:12:26 He was not a representative of the neighborhood
03:12:33 Second of all, the board also made their decision
03:12:36 based on what Steve LaBour said was previous use of
03:12:43 the building, something that had not been -- the
03:12:45 building had not been used since 2004.
03:12:51 As it turned out we are not going to be using this for
03:12:53 a separate residence.
03:12:57 In all I think that the board made a mistake.
03:13:00 It did not -- they did not look into the issues that
03:13:06 were at stake.
03:13:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Mr. Chairman, I just had a question.
03:13:14 And I don't know if you have copies.
03:13:16 We don't have a color copy of that photograph you have
03:13:18 on the overhead.
03:13:19 But I would like to leave it up there for now.
03:13:22 My question for you is, you were asking for reduction
03:13:27 and setbacks to zero on two sides.
03:13:30 Is that correct?
03:13:31 >>> Yes.
03:13:31 >>MARY MULHERN: Can you show me?
03:13:33 You pointed out all these other accessory structures
03:13:36 in your neighborhood.
03:13:40 I'm trying to tell from this.
03:13:42 It looks like some of them are.
03:13:43 But could you point which ones are zero setback on two
03:13:49 >>> I can tell you the one directly next door
03:13:53 definitely has.
03:13:53 I have a picture of that.
03:13:56 May I put this --
03:14:00 Put it on the overhead then.
03:14:01 >>> You can see that the pink garage in the back,
03:14:09 that's all the way to the back of the property, and
03:14:11 it's all the way to the side of the property line.
03:14:16 The red garage is also right on the property line.
03:14:20 >> If I could look at that.
03:14:26 Not that.
03:14:26 The overhead that you have.
03:14:29 That would be helpful.
03:14:31 If I could see a close-up.
03:14:37 The overhead.
03:14:40 Thank you.
03:14:50 That was all I wanted to know.
03:14:52 >> Any other questions?
03:14:55 Councilman Dingfelder.
03:14:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would sort of like to nip this
03:15:01 in the bud without spend ago huge amount more time on
03:15:04 It appears Mr. Johnson, I think, sat in the past in
03:15:09 front of this body and there isn't any new evidence,
03:15:15 and he couldn't live in the city limits anymore, I
03:15:17 think he's in Temple Terrace now.
03:15:19 And he's saying yes.
03:15:20 So it appears there's some controversy as related to
03:15:26 what he said and how he said it to the VRB.
03:15:29 And I am not going to get into the accuracy of that or
03:15:31 not because that's not our role.
03:15:33 But I think if there was any type of confusion, then
03:15:38 that raises an issue of due process.
03:15:41 And I think that what we need to do -- and I have
03:15:44 conferred with Marty already on this -- is due process
03:15:47 is one of the key issues in our appeal.
03:15:49 I think we need to remand it back to the VRB, make
03:15:54 them address this issue of Pete and what role he was
03:15:58 playing and whether or not his role was consistent
03:16:00 with that neighborhood association that he said he was
03:16:03 speaking for, because that's in the transcript.
03:16:05 And address that issue, clarify that issue.
03:16:07 If they want to stick to where they were before, fine.
03:16:10 If they can clean up that part of the record, and then
03:16:13 if it comes back it comes back.
03:16:14 If it doesn't, it doesn't.
03:16:16 So that would be -- that's my suggestion.
03:16:19 I would like to move it as a motion but I'm open for
03:16:22 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to ask a question.
03:16:25 I have a letter from the neighborhood association.
03:16:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That came in after the VRB that I am
03:16:33 asking to you exclude.
03:16:35 >>GWEN MILLER: No, this one is before.
03:16:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This letter is in the back.
03:16:42 What's the date?
03:16:43 >>GWEN MILLER: October 12, 2009.
03:16:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's too late.
03:16:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The hearing was on August 11th.
03:16:50 >>GWEN MILLER: And they met and supported it.
03:16:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: See, that's all after the hearing.
03:16:55 Marty is telling us not to address that.
03:16:57 That's the kind of issue that the VRB needs to
03:17:00 They need to address that and it's not our place.
03:17:02 >>GWEN MILLER: They did not get this to the VRB?
03:17:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, it was too late.
03:17:07 The hearing was in August.
03:17:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It was submitted by the applicant.
03:17:14 The petitioner.
03:17:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Somebody sent it to us.
03:17:18 Maybe the VRB people sent it to us.
03:17:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It appears to me clearly that the
03:17:23 record here is rather corrupted.
03:17:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's really mess up.
03:17:30 I want to tell you, we got this in the backup.
03:17:34 October 12th.
03:17:35 But it's part of the backup material.
03:17:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The backup provided by the
03:17:39 So he gave it --
03:17:41 No, no, this came off -- off line.
03:17:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The petitioner put together the
03:17:49 transcript and the packet and provides that to the
03:17:53 clerk which is then distributed to City Council.
03:17:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, in that case it's more
03:18:00 >>MARY MULHERN: I was going to ignore all of that
03:18:07 even though I did peek at that, and I'm not sure if
03:18:12 the letters are also in my packet here.
03:18:14 But I feel that there is enough -- ignoring all of
03:18:22 that, regardless of all of that, I would be ready to
03:18:28 overturn the VRB's decision based on there not being
03:18:36 competent substantial evidence against it, and due
03:18:42 So I don't think we need to remand it.
03:18:44 I think it's correct for us to deal with it --
03:18:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, let me just share with you,
03:18:52 council, the other concern that needs to be taken into
03:18:58 account is that a lot of this relates to Pete Johnson,
03:19:01 and Mr. Johnson is here today.
03:19:02 He hasn't had a chance to address it.
03:19:06 That being the case, the issue is that even if the
03:19:09 issue is competent, substantial evidence, if due
03:19:13 process is not afford ohed, it's still an error to be
03:19:18 able to take --
03:19:21 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
03:19:22 I shouldn't have added what you were saying, because
03:19:24 that isn't what I'm talking -- I wouldn't base my
03:19:27 decision -- we don't have to meet all three of these
03:19:30 We do, all three?
03:19:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Absolutely.
03:19:35 The three things in order to -- in order for a
03:19:40 decision to be upheld had, there has to be three
03:19:43 It has to be based on competent substantial evidence.
03:19:45 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm saying -- I'm not -- what about
03:19:48 overturning it?
03:19:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It has to be an error that affects
03:19:53 one of those.
03:19:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
03:19:57 That's what I'm saying.
03:19:58 I don't feel -- let me finish what I'm thinking.
03:20:01 Looking at that photograph, I don't feel there was
03:20:03 competent substantial evidence to deny it based on the
03:20:09 fact that the rest of the neighborhood, all the other
03:20:12 houses have the zero setbacks accessory structures.
03:20:15 So he's asking for a variance.
03:20:17 But if it's in a neighborhood where people seem to
03:20:21 have had that.
03:20:23 So even without any discussion of due process, if I
03:20:28 can do it based on -- make a motion based on that, I
03:20:34 But I'll do whatever --
03:20:38 >>> 11 of the 15 houses.
03:20:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Wait, sir.
03:20:42 You can sit down.
03:20:43 Take your seat.
03:20:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: My suggestion, council, is if that's
03:20:48 inclination of at least one council member, hear from
03:20:51 Mr. Johnson, whoever else wants to speak, give the
03:20:53 petitioner a chance at rebuttal, and then we'll see
03:20:56 where we stand.
03:20:57 At least you will have a complete record of a complete
03:20:59 >> Thank you.
03:21:03 Does anyone from the public wish to address council?
03:21:05 You have three minutes.
03:21:06 State your name and address for the record.
03:21:07 Anyone from the public.
03:21:08 >> Pete Johnson, 301 Druid hills road, Temple Terrace,
03:21:14 Number one, do you not have to be a resident of the
03:21:17 City of Tampa to be a member of any home association
03:21:22 I have clarified that.
03:21:24 Shannon Edge's office so many times it's ridiculous.
03:21:27 Number two.
03:21:28 The quality of life factors that affect the people in
03:21:31 Temple Terrace affect me, too.
03:21:33 >> Mr. Johnson, excuse me.
03:21:37 You have to stick to the record.
03:21:41 You have to be on the record.
03:21:42 >>> Okay.
03:21:46 First thing that is on the record, the owner is an
03:21:51 out-of-town owner.
03:21:54 On the record, we were concerned that at the last PD
03:22:00 was, we were concerned of people moving into this
03:22:03 structure and living in it.
03:22:07 On the record, I have had people that lived in six by
03:22:13 eight wooden sheds in that neighborhood that I have
03:22:16 had to have removed.
03:22:18 There are no plans for this.
03:22:22 His plans were not approved.
03:22:23 They were picked up in June and never returned.
03:22:27 Basically, I feel if you approve this that being that
03:22:31 it's an out of town owner, the code can't watch it all
03:22:34 the time, someone is going to move in there,
03:22:36 especially in this poor neighborhood, and that's where
03:22:39 we have the drug dealers living in, that's where we
03:22:41 have the prostitutes living in, and I just think it's
03:22:44 going to be a deprivation of the neighborhood,
03:22:49 regardless of what the Board said.
03:22:49 And I'm sorry about the papers getting out to you.
03:22:52 They were meant to be held until after the meeting.
03:22:54 Thank you.
03:22:54 >> Thank you.
03:22:55 Anyone else from the public?
03:22:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question.
03:22:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's wait and see.
03:23:02 >>> Kim Hyland, 1001 East 24th Avenue.
03:23:09 I am the president of the neighborhood association.
03:23:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you testify at the --
03:23:15 >>> No.
03:23:16 Can I not testify now?
03:23:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No.
03:23:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm sorry, I thought if they were a
03:23:22 party of record they have to stick to the record.
03:23:23 That's not accurate?
03:23:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: She wasn't there.
03:23:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You are a party of record.
03:23:28 You are party of record.
03:23:29 You can speak at an appeal if you are party of record.
03:23:32 But you have to speak to what's on the record.
03:23:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You are right at the county.
03:23:43 I think our rules are slightly different.
03:23:44 >>> Her name was put on a letter provided by Pete
03:23:50 Johnson that she was unaware of.
03:23:52 So in a sense, she was present at the meeting without
03:23:56 even really knowing it.
03:23:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, in this case I am going to
03:24:03 listen to the attorneys.
03:24:05 So thank you.
03:24:06 Anyone else from the public?
03:24:07 Okay then.
03:24:09 Yes, you have rebuttal.
03:24:10 >> I don't know where he's getting off that we didn't
03:24:15 have plans.
03:24:16 We have detailed plans showing that this is not going
03:24:19 to be an additional house on the back of a property,
03:24:24 that weighed plans with no kitchens, without closets.
03:24:30 Living two doors down, the house there is very small.
03:24:37 If someone would tear down my garage I don't know
03:24:40 where I would put half my stuff.
03:24:42 I don't know what else to say.
03:24:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, before making a motion let
03:24:50 me also clarify.
03:24:52 The city attorney, I do have a concern.
03:24:56 Listen to what I am about to say.
03:24:57 I do have a concern.
03:24:58 In the backup, we do have this letter.
03:25:00 Linda just verified it is out on the -- online.
03:25:06 My backup office, she verified this came in.
03:25:10 Now, that raises a big concern for me, if we are
03:25:14 attaching information that was not a part of the
03:25:16 record, then we have some concerns here.
03:25:20 Do you understand what I'm saying?
03:25:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I do.
03:25:25 >>> At some point in the process the information
03:25:28 became part of the record that was not presented to
03:25:32 you all.
03:25:33 That would be a concern, obviously.
03:25:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's my concern.
03:25:38 At least for me.
03:25:39 I get my information -- she doesn't provide it.
03:25:44 We get it off the -- is it online?
03:25:47 All this stuff is printed -- all the backup material.
03:25:50 So we have got -- I guess the clerk must put it out.
03:25:55 And they get it from wherever.
03:25:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: They get it from the petitioner.
03:25:58 The petitioner prepares it.
03:25:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's why you need a hearing
03:26:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
03:26:13 I'm going to try to do this.
03:26:18 I'm sorry.
03:26:19 I'll move to close the public hearing.
03:26:20 >> Second.
03:26:21 >> All in favor signify by saying Aye.
03:26:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
03:26:27 I think even since I left, the record has gotten
03:26:31 I'm going to second Mr. Dingfelder's motion to remand
03:26:36 this back to the VRB, because we don't have any
03:26:41 other -- I don't know what other option we have.
03:26:49 I don't know what else we can do when we are putting
03:26:53 ourselves by voting by making a decision, putting
03:27:00 ourselves in a position where we know that the record
03:27:03 may not uphold our decision.
03:27:08 Does that make any -- you know what I mean?
03:27:10 I want to follow your recommendation.
03:27:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: There's several ways you can go,
03:27:16 But obviously the basis for the remand -- and Mr.
03:27:21 Fletcher mentioned this, and I do agree with him --
03:27:23 the basis for the remand cannot be the fact about Mr.
03:27:30 Johnson, whether he represented the homeowners
03:27:37 >>MARY MULHERN: No.
03:27:38 That's not the -- you tell me if this could be the
03:27:41 basis of the remand.
03:27:42 The fact that we have had new testimony and new
03:27:50 evidence presented here today which raises questions
03:27:56 of due process.
03:27:58 So I don't feel -- I think that it would be better to
03:28:02 remand it back to the Variance Review Board, because
03:28:06 they would have --
03:28:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me clarify my motion.
03:28:10 It's also a function of competent evidence.
03:28:12 If the evidence they heard from Mr. Johnson might be
03:28:15 tainted or otherwise not competent, that's one of our
03:28:18 three prongs.
03:28:19 So I think between the two of due process, incompetent
03:28:22 evidence, we have plenty of reason to send it back and
03:28:24 let them clean it up on that issue.
03:28:28 That's my motion.
03:28:29 >> I second it.
03:28:30 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I call the question,
03:28:32 Mr. Chairman.
03:28:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
03:28:35 I have a motion to remand it back.
03:28:42 Can we limit the scope or just have a full-blown
03:28:44 hearing on it?
03:28:50 You can remand it back.
03:28:52 Now the scope of what you want them to look at, is
03:28:54 that right?
03:28:56 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Could you remand it back with
03:28:57 direction or just remand it back without direction.
03:29:02 Your choice.
03:29:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think to the extent -- I would
03:29:08 agree that it should be remanded back on that limited
03:29:11 basis, that there was testimony about how the
03:29:14 neighborhood felt about it, and I think they need to
03:29:18 get clarification about who speaks for the
03:29:20 neighborhood, and how that neighborhood really feels
03:29:23 about it.
03:29:24 And Mr. Johnson can testify all he wants in any
03:29:27 capacity he wants.
03:29:28 But they need to tighten up on who he's speaking for
03:29:32 and if that's real.
03:29:33 >>ERNEST MUELLER: I think it would be better if you
03:29:36 remand it back based on competent substantial evidence
03:29:39 and the due process issues, I think just remand it
03:29:43 back without direction, let the Variance Review Board
03:29:48 hear the case anew.
03:29:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
03:29:52 Motion and second.
03:29:53 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
03:29:57 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano voting no.
03:30:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: So when are we going to get it
03:30:09 back, about eight months?
03:30:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have to vote on the case during
03:30:18 lunch, it was a closed hearing.
03:30:19 >>MARY MULHERN: We continued that.
03:30:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
03:30:25 Then that will conclude then all of our items on the
03:30:29 We will move now to new business.
03:30:35 Mr. Dingfelder.
03:30:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
03:30:38 As your representative on the Hart bus board, I'm
03:30:42 pleased to announce that Hart attained the Florida
03:30:45 public transportation system of the year award.
03:30:49 And I think Mr. Amelio and his staff are doing a good
03:30:54 job which is important as we come into this next year
03:30:56 and the proposed referendum.
03:30:58 With that I would like to bring David and his senior
03:31:03 staff over to get the commendation about that award.
03:31:06 >> Second.
03:31:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Schedule that for an appropriate
03:31:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We can talk about that.
03:31:16 There are a number of issues.
03:31:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If they come we can do it at the
03:31:21 same time.
03:31:21 >> There's a motion and second.
03:31:23 All in favor?
03:31:28 Councilwoman Mulhern.
03:31:29 >>MARY MULHERN: Mr. Chairman, I have a resolution,
03:31:33 Mr. Shelby.
03:31:33 I might need some direction.
03:31:40 Can I move this resolution today?
03:31:42 Or is this something I need to put on the agenda?
03:31:44 For the Regional Planning Council?
03:31:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have already previously
03:31:48 distributed it to City Council.
03:31:49 I don't know whether City Council had an opportunity
03:31:51 to look at it.
03:31:52 It's regarding the RPC hosting the 2012 conference.
03:31:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
03:31:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The only thing I would raise, Mrs.
03:32:02 Mulhern, is within the body of the whereas clauses, it
03:32:05 expresses council's desire to contribute $2,000
03:32:10 towards the cost of posting that.
03:32:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Let me, instead of bringing up a
03:32:16 resolution, put this on the agenda.
03:32:18 If I put it on the agenda for our next meeting to
03:32:21 discuss whether we would like to do that?
03:32:24 It is to support the Tampa Bay Regional Planning
03:32:25 Council as host of the 2012 national association of
03:32:30 regional council's annual conference, which I am very
03:32:33 much in support of, but they are also asking the Tampa
03:32:37 City Council to support the council by $2,000 in
03:32:44 fiscal year 2010, and I'm sure they are asking the
03:32:47 other cities and counties in the region to do that.
03:32:50 But that's for discussion.
03:32:55 The next meeting.
03:32:55 >> That's the next meeting?
03:32:57 It's been moved and seconded.
03:32:59 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
03:33:02 >>MARY MULHERN: That's all I have.
03:33:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
03:33:05 As you well know, the New York Yankees, which
03:33:08 everybody a great asset to the city for many years,
03:33:11 just won their 27th world championship.
03:33:15 I would like to have a commendation drawn up to that
03:33:22 Thank the Yankee organization, the boss and his family
03:33:27 for the contribution they made to the city.
03:33:30 >> Second.
03:33:31 >> Second.
03:33:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And since the funds are short I am
03:33:36 going to Chip in a couple of dollars to buy them a
03:33:38 nice trophy which could be from two inches to two feet
03:33:41 depending on how far my funds run.
03:33:44 We are very proud of their accomplishments.
03:33:46 But mostly we are proud of the way they act and the
03:33:49 way they run that team.
03:33:52 You have to have short hair.
03:33:54 I guess I could fit into the Yankees pretty good.
03:33:56 And they do a great job, the community, no matter
03:34:04 where they are at.
03:34:05 That's number one.
03:34:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
03:34:09 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
03:34:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And the Hispanic operation we had,
03:34:14 it was real nice at the Tampa Theatre.
03:34:17 Frank Garcia, friend of mine, he's one of the guys
03:34:20 that goes out for months at a time, gets these
03:34:22 fossils, and I don't know where he finds them but he
03:34:26 has more fossils, I think, than any human being
03:34:29 Wrote this wonderful song.
03:34:31 And -- is that it?
03:34:34 Maybe Linda can do the -- it means part of Tampa.
03:34:42 We would like to offer him a commendation for the work
03:34:44 that he's done.
03:34:48 >> Moved and seconded.
03:34:51 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
03:34:52 >>MARY MULHERN: Do we all get the CD?
03:34:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I guarantee it will stick in your
03:35:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ms. Miller?
03:35:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
03:35:06 I would like to make a motion that we ask the legal
03:35:09 department to look at the legal nonconforming sign
03:35:12 code and make a recommendation regarding what changes
03:35:17 they need to make.
03:35:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Nonconforming signs so they can be
03:35:23 My thought is if they are not conforming -- they
03:35:27 should go away.
03:35:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Either change them or --
03:35:31 Well, the question is put it on the agenda for
03:35:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Right.
03:35:35 Legal department.
03:35:37 To decide what they would like to do.
03:35:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, it's a policy discussion and
03:35:41 I think it's our discussion.
03:35:42 We then direct them.
03:35:43 Then explain where we are now and we can direct them.
03:35:52 Next meeting in two weeks.
03:35:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
03:35:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I don't know whether
03:35:57 you intend to bring up that new business but you have
03:36:00 a 30-minute presentation.
03:36:01 And one of the concerns is adding staff reports, if
03:36:05 you wish to have that discussion, that's fine.
03:36:06 I want to bring it to your attention.
03:36:08 >> I'll bring it up.
03:36:09 Thank you.
03:36:10 Moved and seconded.
03:36:11 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
03:36:14 And is that something that we can carry over to
03:36:19 First meeting in December?
03:36:21 Carry it to the first meeting in December.
03:36:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
03:36:28 This morning, the young woman who is working on
03:36:31 climate change provided us a resolution, which is a
03:36:36 symbolic resolution encouraging the City Council would
03:36:39 encourage the Florida representatives on the U.S.
03:36:42 Senate to support it.
03:36:48 I would like to do that.
03:36:49 >> Second.
03:36:51 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to say that I have been
03:36:55 to a couple of conferences, the most convincing one
03:36:59 that this is so important to happen before the
03:37:02 Copenhagen meeting, the national security conference,
03:37:06 with two Republican senators, former senator John
03:37:12 Warner and Connie Mack.
03:37:14 I them he was Republican.
03:37:16 And an admiral who said this is the most important
03:37:19 thing for the U.S., for our national security
03:37:21 interest, for us to pass this before that conference,
03:37:24 which is coming up in December.
03:37:25 So thank you, Linda.
03:37:27 >> Moved and seconded.
03:37:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just in looking at that, at the
03:37:34 resolution that they handed out, I would like, Marty,
03:37:37 to clean it up a little bit.
03:37:38 I think it talks about that the seas will rise X
03:37:42 number of inches, based upon this one report and that
03:37:45 sort of thing.
03:37:45 I think it's too specific.
03:37:47 I think we can all acknowledge that there's concern
03:37:49 that the seas will rise and there's concern that the
03:37:51 heat will rise, and also I think there's concern about
03:37:55 the military and security aspects of that, we should
03:38:02 be energy independent.
03:38:03 We should add that as a clause.
03:38:05 Maybe Marty --
03:38:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I amend my motion that Mr. Shelby
03:38:12 will bring it back to us with that language for next
03:38:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want it for the next regular
03:38:20 meeting for City Council?
03:38:21 Because next week you have a CRA.
03:38:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thursday night at 6:00.
03:38:27 >> Moved and seconded.
03:38:29 All in favor?
03:38:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: On article 85 this morning, the
03:38:35 human rights ordinance, I voted no.
03:38:37 I want to change my vote.
03:38:39 I didn't want to discriminate.
03:38:41 I wanted to see language in there about cross dressing
03:38:43 but evidently it didn't pass muster.
03:38:46 So make that a unanimous vote.
03:38:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
03:38:52 So a vote for reconsideration.
03:38:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Bring him into the fold.
03:39:00 I move to reconsider on behalf of --
03:39:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do we have a motion?
03:39:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor of reconsideration say
03:39:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That number off the agenda is 85.
03:39:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move 85 again and it already
03:39:25 been read.
03:39:26 Mr. Shelby.
03:39:27 I move 85 again.
03:39:28 It's already been read.
03:39:29 >> Moved and seconded.
03:39:32 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
03:39:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you can, madam clerk, announce it
03:39:43 because it will have to come back for a second reading
03:39:45 at a public hearing, and that will be --
03:39:46 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried unanimously.
03:39:49 Second reading of the ordinance will be held November
03:39:51 the 19th at 9:30 a.m.
03:39:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
03:39:55 Let me wrap this up here.
03:39:56 We have a request, a letter of congratulations from
03:40:00 City Council to Candice Huntley who is retiring from
03:40:06 the Hillsborough County legislative delegation,
03:40:08 December 31st, 09, after 35 years.
03:40:11 So we will need a letter.
03:40:17 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye.
03:40:20 Opposed, Nay.
03:40:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then the item I want to place on the
03:40:25 agenda for the 19th at 11:00.
03:40:28 This is bringing to us the executive report and the
03:40:32 recommendation from the transportation task force,
03:40:37 30-minute presentation.
03:40:39 >> That's a long time.
03:40:45 >> Well, we are going to provide executive service but
03:40:48 I think what's more important is they are going to
03:40:50 show you the whole light rail component, where it's
03:40:52 going, where it's not going, whatever, and all that
03:40:56 I mean, it don't have to take 30 minutes but I thought
03:40:58 you might be interested.
03:40:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We are real interested.
03:41:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Four of the city council members
03:41:07 are members of the lead team.
03:41:08 >>MARY MULHERN: I've seen it twice.
03:41:12 >> 15 minutes.
03:41:15 >> All right.
03:41:16 15 minutes.
03:41:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
03:41:22 All in favor say Aye.
03:41:23 Opposed, Nay.
03:41:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry to interrupt.
03:41:25 But you had mentioned in your memo about a resolution.
03:41:28 >> Yes.
03:41:29 And that is I would like for the county attorney to,
03:41:33 once the county has voted, my understanding December
03:41:36 2nd they'll vote on the resolution, they are
03:41:40 bringing back on the 2nd a resolution, the intent
03:41:43 of a resolution, place on the ballot, the language.
03:41:46 So what I would like you to do is bring it back to our
03:41:50 first meeting in December, or second meeting, the
03:41:52 resolution to support, place the item.
03:41:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: What -- would you like me to obtain
03:42:01 the county's, and based on that bring something that
03:42:04 City Council can then entertain, pass on?
03:42:07 >> The resolution, yes.
03:42:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
03:42:09 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
03:42:11 Opposed, Nay.
03:42:11 >> One last thing here.
03:42:13 And Hartline requested before City Council to make a
03:42:21 presentation on transit or --
03:42:27 >>GWEN MILLER: When?
03:42:28 >> I don't know.
03:42:29 My understanding is they want to bring --
03:42:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The expert from out of town?
03:42:38 >> Yes, that's what they are saying.
03:42:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do we have any other related -- I
03:42:44 mean, this is about the rail and --
03:42:49 My position was, all the issues like what the MPO was
03:42:53 going to do today.
03:42:54 All of its related.
03:42:56 MPO, transportation task force --
03:42:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If you want to bundle it together,
03:43:01 that justifies 30 minutes.
03:43:02 >> That's going to be my suggestion.
03:43:04 Put it all together.
03:43:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll second your motion on that.
03:43:08 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye.
03:43:10 Opposed, Nay.
03:43:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So you all understand the motion
03:43:14 You can make a presentation of the commendation.
03:43:17 Anything else?
03:43:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.
03:43:19 You just made a motion to put all these items on the
03:43:25 9th at 11:00.
03:43:27 And who will be responsible?
03:43:28 Is somebody taking responsibility for making the
03:43:30 invitations for the 19th?
03:43:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Linda can coordinate it, I guess.
03:43:40 Anything else?
03:43:42 Anything else that needs to come before --
03:43:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.
03:43:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
03:43:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move to receive and file.
03:43:54 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
03:43:58 Anything else need to come before council?
03:44:01 Now, public comments.
03:44:02 Items not on the agenda.
03:44:03 (The meeting adjourned at 3:44 p.m.)
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