Help & information    View the list of Transcripts

November 12, 2009
5:01 p.m. Session

The following represents an unedited version of realtime
captioning which should neither be relied upon for complete
accuracy nor used as a verbatim transcript.
The original of this file was produced in all capital letters
and any variation thereto may be a result of third party edits
and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the proceedings
may need to hire a court reporter.

[Sounding Gavel]

17:04:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.

17:05:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.

17:05:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.

17:05:10 We are scheduled to have the flag presentation at this

17:05:10 time.

17:05:18 We will rise.

17:05:28 This is being presented today by the Cub Pack 1952 of

17:05:30 Sulphur Springs.

17:05:34 They are accompanied by Mr. Earl Syler, troop leader

17:05:36 for the Boy Scouts of Sulphur Springs.

17:05:40 He is also the Weed and Seed Site Coordinator for the

17:05:50 City of Tampa Police Department.

17:05:53 >> Attention.

17:05:56 Ladies and gentlemen can you please join me in the

17:05:59 Pledge of Allegiance to the flag.

17:05:59 [Pledge of Allegiance]

17:06:19 >> Scouts, right face --

17:06:27 >> About face.

17:06:41 >> Scouts, forward march.

17:06:41 [Applause]

17:07:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

17:07:13 Again that is Cub Pack 1952 of Sulphur Springs.

17:07:19 Mr. Earl Syler, troop leader for Boy Scouts of Sulphur

17:07:20 Springs.

17:07:24 First on our agenda tonight, Council.

17:07:28 We have the Building and Zoning and Preservation

17:07:30 Committee.

17:07:32 Some questions.

17:07:35 I believe Miss Miller is here to address any questions

17:07:39 to what's on the agenda for those items.

17:07:40 >> I am sorry, Mr. Chairman.

17:07:42 Forgive me for interrupting.

17:07:45 These items are under the committee report consent

17:07:46 items.

17:07:50 Normally when you do that, before the vote and before

17:07:52 necessarily a presentation, you usually have the

17:07:53 opportunity for public comment.

17:07:56 So it would be appropriate to ask if anyone wants to

17:08:01 address Items 2 through 7 before Miss Miller makes her

17:08:04 presentation.

17:08:05 >> May I add something.

17:08:07 If we do it the way it was presented, how can anybody

17:08:12 disagree or agree what Miss Miller is going to say if

17:08:13 she hasn't said anything.

17:08:16 >> What normally happens, consent docket items are

17:08:22 taken at public comment up front.

17:08:24 None of these are set for public hearing and will be

17:08:26 set by resolution and take effect after that.

17:08:30 Council can choose to have it after the fact, but

17:08:34 normally -- you normally have the public comment for

17:08:36 consent items and then a vote at that time.

17:08:39 So it is up to council how you wish to proceed.

17:08:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's let Miss Miller come up and make

17:08:47 a presentation and then take any comments.

17:08:49 >>CINDY MILLER: Mr. Chairman, members of City Council,

17:08:52 Cindy Miller, Director of Development Services.

17:08:53 I am here primarily for questions.

17:08:58 I did send along to you a memo that outlined and I

17:08:59 believe addressed a number OF the concerns that were

17:09:02 raised and also with some additional information as to

17:09:03 the process.

17:09:09 So I am really available for questions.

17:09:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Caetano.

17:09:20 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Move items 2 through 7.

17:09:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions for council?

17:09:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to make a comment.

17:09:29 The way I read Number 2, that is a loan, that's

17:09:30 correct?

17:09:31 These are not grants.

17:09:33 >> Let me do a brief outline.

17:09:35 Grants from the Federal Government through the city

17:09:39 that will be utilized to purchase abandoned foreclosed

17:09:44 houses or multifamily, rehab them, and sell them to

17:09:46 eligible homebuyers.

17:09:46 So it is a grant.

17:09:50 But what we will do is we will recoup the funds when

17:09:53 the properties are sold, and there will be some amount

17:09:56 that goes, of course, to contractors and developers and

17:09:59 then the rest will come back to the city, and we will

17:10:02 also have downpayment assistance.

17:10:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: A grant --

17:10:04 >> And a loan.

17:10:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: In the beginning and a loan that

17:10:07 has to be paid at the end.

17:10:08 I understand.

17:10:10 >> That's it exactly, sir.

17:10:14 >> A little confusing, but that's how it goes.

17:10:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

17:10:18 The money that we get back become a revolving loan

17:10:18 fund?

17:10:21 >> Basically be that for the length of time that the

17:10:23 Federal Government authorizes us to do so.

17:10:26 As an example, what we intend to do with this, what is

17:10:31 called "program revenue" or "program income", we will

17:10:34 utilize this for similar activities to acquire and also

17:10:35 could be used as an example.

17:10:38 You saw the scout troops of Sulphur Springs.

17:10:42 Some of that program income we are acquiring property

17:10:43 that we are tearing down.

17:10:46 This program income can be used to build new houses in

17:10:47 the next couple of years.

17:10:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Earlier today we had a presentation

17:10:59 by -- by a house on 22nd, it is in East Tampa.

17:11:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 22nd and Osbourne.

17:11:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And Osbourne and St. Peter Claver

17:11:10 Church expressed an interest of moving the house down

17:11:17 to St. Claver Church into a school -- and making the

17:11:20 house a home for the head of school.

17:11:24 And Mark Huey said, no, no, you can't use CRA money

17:11:29 from the East Tampa CRA to a different CRA, and you

17:11:30 can't do that.

17:11:33 I was wondering if any of the money that we are putting

17:11:34 into this be available?

17:11:38 I know what you are planning to do with this is

17:11:40 completely different, but since we haven't voted on it

17:11:42 yet, and since this is something that the people from

17:11:46 -- there was a gentleman who is an engineer and

17:11:48 contractor from Sacred Heart who is trying to work with

17:11:53 the people with the school to try to help facilitate

17:11:54 the logistics of moving the house.

17:11:59 Could any of this money be used for that perhaps?

17:12:01 >> This particular -- this group of contracts, no,

17:12:04 because they are specifically for the four different

17:12:08 neighborhoods I mentioned, Sulphur Springs, North Tampa

17:12:08 and --

17:12:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is not in any of those?

17:12:12 Precluded by the Federal guidelines.

17:12:15 You just determine the programs should be in these

17:12:16 areas.

17:12:18 >> Not as part of our grant request the Federal

17:12:19 Government to use it for that.

17:12:22 Also, I do not believe that the house that you are

17:12:24 mentioning that has been used as offices is an

17:12:27 abandoned foreclosed property.

17:12:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It is not.

17:12:31 >> So, therefore, it cannot be used for that purpose.

17:12:34 I did hear that you had discussion on that, and we will

17:12:39 be back with you a complete answer at a later date.

17:12:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Perhaps a revolving loan from a

17:12:46 interstate trust fund or something like that.

17:12:49 >> I heard portions of your discussion, and between

17:12:53 Dennis and me we will be back at a following CRA

17:12:55 meeting.

17:12:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

17:12:58 Anyone from the public wish to address Council on these

17:12:59 items?

17:13:02 Anyone from the public wish to address Council?

17:13:04 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Move proposed items.

17:13:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A motion made by councilman Caetano.

17:13:14 Those in favor say aye.

17:13:15 Opposed?

17:13:15 So moved.

17:13:17 So order, carried.

17:13:20 Items 2-7.

17:13:22 Now have a public hearing.

17:13:27 >> So moved to open public hearing eight.

17:13:27 All in favor, say Aye.

17:13:28 Opposed?

17:13:32 Public hearing on item 8.

17:13:34 This is on a text amendment to the Captial Improvements

17:13:39 Element.

17:13:45 Anyone from the public wish to address council?

17:13:49 >> Randy Gore, City Development Division.

17:13:52 I thought there would be somebody from the Planning

17:13:55 Commission staff but maybe they are on their way.

17:13:57 An annual update to the Captial Improvements Element.

17:14:00 A motion from the Planning Commission finding the plan

17:14:03 amendment consistent with the comprehensive plan and

17:14:05 recommending that it be approved.

17:14:08 I'm here to answer any questions to the proposed plan

17:14:08 amendment.

17:14:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions by council.

17:14:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What is the timing on this, it will

17:14:22 go to the Planning Commission?

17:14:24 >> This has already gone to the Planning Commission.

17:14:27 Every year when you adopt your capital improvements

17:14:28 program, part of that program -- there are projects

17:14:32 that are part of the annual update to the CIE.

17:14:34 This is just making those projects and bringing them

17:14:37 into the comprehensive plan.

17:14:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

17:14:42 >> Move to close.

17:14:45 >> I want to make clear this is what we approve with

17:14:47 the budget this fiscal year.

17:14:49 >> Move to close.

17:14:49 >> Second.

17:14:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

17:14:53 All in favor signify by saying aye.

17:14:54 Opposed?

17:14:59 Okay.

17:15:02 >> Mr. Chairman, I move an amendment for the

17:15:04 comprehensive plan Captial Improvements Element by

17:15:08 updating the schedule of projects for fiscal year 2010

17:15:12 through fiscal year 2015 providing for appeal of all

17:15:16 ordinance and conflict of severability for effective

17:15:16 date.

17:15:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.

17:15:22 Seconded by Councilmember Miranda.

17:15:23 All in favor, say Aye.

17:15:25 Opposed.

17:15:30 >> Motion carried with Councilmember Dingfelder being

17:15:31 absent.

17:15:32 Second reading.

17:15:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anything else?

17:15:40 We stand in recess until 5:30, a 15-minute break.

17:15:41 Thank you.


17:31:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.

17:31:43 Pick up on public hearing on items 9 through 14.

17:31:45 The first someone a continued public hearing.

17:31:49 Item 9.

17:31:53 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Good evening, Council.

17:31:57 Catherine Coyle, Land Development.

17:31:59 This is continued because of the delay in the Planning

17:32:02 Commission hearing, but we haven't actually heard

17:32:10 these.

17:32:16 I will be handing you new copies of these only because

17:32:19 I am giving a substitute ordinance and this is purely

17:32:21 for the effective date of the ordinance.

17:32:22 Because of the delay with the Planning Commission, the

17:32:26 effective date of the ordinance that you have in your

17:32:29 binders is November 1 which has already passed.

17:32:32 This corrective ordinance cites the effective date of

17:32:35 December 15 in order to make it through the second

17:32:36 reading.

17:32:40 The first set of changes up are for chapter 22.

17:32:42 Streets and sidewalks.

17:32:45 And these are the general changes to streamline the

17:32:48 sidewalk cafe process through the streets and sidewalks

17:32:56 code, making specifically Ybor City historic district,

17:32:57 downtown district and the channel district

17:33:02 administrative review for sidewalk cafe permits.

17:33:04 This does not relate to the alcohol piece that this is

17:33:10 truly or purely the Transportation permit to have the

17:33:11 tables and chairs in the sidewalks.

17:33:14 As long as they immediate ADA compliance and other

17:33:16 specific regulations.

17:33:19 Those three particular districts that become

17:33:21 administrative review and approval.

17:33:24 Anywhere else in the city will still come to City

17:33:26 Council as you currently do today.

17:33:30 So that is the main change in this particular

17:33:31 paragraph.

17:33:33 Do you have any questions?

17:33:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

17:33:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to thank you for bringing

17:33:44 this to us. This will make it more expeditious and

17:33:46 makes Tampa a more business friendly city and thing is

17:33:49 great.

17:33:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman.

17:33:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I might agree with Linda on that.

17:33:58 But I am wondering what is the origin.

17:34:01 Did we originate this or restaurant --

17:34:03 >> We did it internally.

17:34:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We staff or we us?

17:34:07 >>CATHERINE COYLE: We staff.

17:34:10 Myself, Land Development and Transportation dealing

17:34:13 with the sidewalk cafe issues that we have.

17:34:16 The way the process works right now is they have to go

17:34:20 through the permitting process with Transportation, and

17:34:24 the vast majority has to come to City Council within

17:34:26 the entertainment districts which can take a

17:34:27 significant amount of time.

17:34:30 We can then not allow the sidewalk cafe alcohol permit

17:34:32 to run until that one is finalized.

17:34:35 And the entire process, just to add a couple of tables

17:34:39 outside to an already existing restaurant and coffee

17:34:40 shop can take months.

17:34:43 This hopefully will actually streamline it to a month

17:34:46 or less hopefully is what we are shooting for.

17:34:48 Which, in turn, makes the application process less

17:34:50 expensive.

17:34:51 >> This is Ybor.

17:34:54 >> Ybor downtown and the channel des strict will be

17:34:56 done administratively.

17:34:59 The identified general entertainment districts for the

17:35:01 city that historically has had those types of

17:35:03 Operations on the sidewalks.

17:35:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Does that -- little bitty, bitty

17:35:11 concern I have and haven't heard it happen -- no pun

17:35:14 intended -- is about noise.

17:35:16 Especially in Ybor.

17:35:19 Used to be a bigger issue.

17:35:21 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Through the workshop you actually

17:35:23 motioned for me to make the change.

17:35:27 There is no outside amplified sound.

17:35:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Oh, we did that.

17:35:31 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes, you did.

17:35:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Aren't we sharp.

17:35:35 >> You actually did that.

17:35:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern and then

17:35:43 Councilman Miranda.

17:35:44 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.

17:35:47 Where in here does it say -- as far as the sidewalk

17:35:50 cafes which -- what district.

17:35:52 I might have found it.

17:35:54 I found it.

17:35:57 >>CATHERINE COYLE: You got it.

17:35:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Page 4, number 2.

17:36:00 My other questions is about the sidewalks and I think

17:36:03 Mr. Miranda is going to cover that, aren't you?

17:36:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, I am.

17:36:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.

17:36:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am glad to see what is going to

17:36:13 be covered before it is covered.

17:36:15 And I hear what you say and I appreciate what you said,

17:36:23 and the ordinance here when I looked down one, two,

17:36:27 three, four sentences, new sidewalk construction is

17:36:28 required.

17:36:31 Contribution to sidewalk trust fund in lieu of

17:36:33 construction of sidewalk.

17:36:34 Explain that.

17:36:36 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Correct, the first section of this

17:36:38 ordinance and that is a change that I am actually

17:36:42 putting forward on the sidewalk provision based on the

17:36:45 issues that came up in the alcohol permits where you

17:36:48 specifically have special use requests which an alcohol

17:36:52 request is a special use when it comes to S-2 through

17:36:55 the City Council, any Special Use 2 request in the

17:36:58 city, they are required to put in a new sidewalk, which

17:37:00 has become burdensome to those properties that

17:37:04 specifically are just asking for alcohol where there is

17:37:06 no additions to the building.

17:37:08 There is no major renovations.

17:37:09 There is no change of use.

17:37:11 We have had convenience stores that historically

17:37:13 haven't had alcohol that have been there for 50 years.

17:37:16 They have come in and just asked for package sales and

17:37:19 by that request simply they have to go then and put in

17:37:20 a sidewalk around the property.

17:37:23 They also have to do a lot of other things to bring

17:37:24 their site up to code.

17:37:27 This was basically excluding them from that

17:37:27 requirement.

17:37:29 If they weren't changing the use.

17:37:32 If they weren't intensifying, they were simply just

17:37:34 asking to add alcohol to an already existing

17:37:37 establishment.

17:37:40 >> Let's say that that same building has -- if I

17:37:44 remember the code sidewalk should be built only on city

17:37:45 right-of-way.

17:37:47 Am I correct or not.

17:37:48 >>CATHERINE COYLE: On public right-of-way immediately

17:37:50 adjacent to the property.

17:37:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Saying there is no public

17:37:52 right-of-way.

17:37:54 That there is a ditch that is the public right-of-way.

17:37:56 How do you handle that?

17:37:57 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Can't answer that question.

17:38:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Isn't this excluding it?

17:38:03 >>CATHERINE COYLE: This is an exclusion for that

17:38:04 limited circumstance for alcohol request.

17:38:08 The remainder the sidewalk trust funds and requirements

17:38:10 are not being changed.

17:38:12 That is not my purview.

17:38:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay, thank you.

17:38:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?

17:38:20 Anyone from the public wish to address council on this

17:38:23 item?

17:38:24 Close.

17:38:25 >> Second.

17:38:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

17:38:30 All in favor signify by saying aye.

17:38:34 Read the ordinance, councilman Dingfelder.

17:38:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

17:38:41 And Cathy reading the one you just handed to us and not

17:38:44 anything about antennas or anything else.

17:38:47 The ordinance of the City of Tampa of Florida making

17:38:50 comprehensive provisions to City of Tampa code of

17:38:52 ordinances chapter 22, streets and sidewalks amending

17:38:57 22-103 when new sidewalk construction is required,

17:38:59 contribution to sidewalk trust fund in lieu of

17:39:00 constructing a sidewalk.

17:39:05 Amending section 22-224, establishment authorized to

17:39:07 operate sidewalk cafes.

17:39:10 Action criteria, review and approval.

17:39:15 Amending section 22-225, permit issuance.

17:39:18 Amending section 22-227.

17:39:19 Operational guidelines.

17:39:24 Amending section 22-2 29 permit renewal, repealing all

17:39:28 ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict therewith

17:39:31 providing for severability providing an effective date.

17:39:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

17:39:36 Seconded by councilwoman Saul-Sena.

17:39:40 All in favor signify by saying aye.

17:39:46 >> Motion carries unanimously second reading December

17:39:47 3.

17:39:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 10.

17:39:52 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Catherine Coyle.

17:39:56 The changes came to you several months ago in the

17:39:58 public workshop.

17:40:03 These changes specifically addressed additional fence

17:40:07 and wall height and stacking heights specifically for

17:40:10 the IH zoning district.

17:40:14 And then when they do abut residential use or zoning,

17:40:18 there is a separate table, table 6-2 on page 3 for the

17:40:25 stacking heights and the wall heights I will show you

17:40:28 the graphics that I showed you in the last round during

17:40:33 the workshop.

17:40:36 Specifically for table 6-1, these are properties that

17:40:40 are zoned IH.

17:40:46 And specifically that do not abut residential, that do

17:40:48 not -- or separated by a right-of-way from --

17:40:52 >> Sorry, can you turn on the overheads -- the overhead

17:40:56 projectors.

17:40:58 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I didn't put it down.

17:40:59 I just put it down.

17:41:00 Specifically the first row.

17:41:04 If you look at table 6-1.

17:41:07 A required fence or wall height of 6 feet, and your

17:41:10 maximum stacking height would be 6 feet.

17:41:13 And then your setbacks from your different yards,

17:41:18 front, side, corner and rear are shown 10 and 3, which

17:41:22 correspond to the underlining zoning district.

17:41:23 To give you a reference.

17:41:26 Somebody six feet in height are standing five feet away

17:41:30 from that particular wall of six feet, a six-foot pile.

17:41:35 Their line of sight is actually above the pile.

17:41:39 A 10-foot setback, that person's line of sight is just

17:41:39 above the pile.

17:41:43 And then at the 20-foot setback from a six-foot wall,

17:41:49 it is just above the pile.

17:41:52 Table -- I am sorry table 6-1 in the second row, this

17:41:56 is for a maximum fence or wall height of 8 feet with a

17:41:59 stacking height of 8 feet.

17:42:03 At a 5-foot setback with an 8 month to wall, the line

17:42:07 of sight obviously is clearly above the pile.

17:42:11 The 10-foot setback is above the pile with an 8-foot

17:42:14 wall, and the 20-foot setback is above the pile --

17:42:17 above the wall and above the pile.

17:42:20 And the reason just so you know I did these different

17:42:24 separations is if you were to be adjacent to

17:42:27 residential, which would be the worst-case scenario of

17:42:30 the industrial heavy next to a residential, even with

17:42:33 the 20-foot setback which be to the rear of a

17:42:39 single-family structure with an 8-foot wall and 8-foot

17:42:41 pile you would not see the top of it.

17:42:44 So that was the purpose of the illustration.

17:42:50 And then if you were to look at 5-foot setback with the

17:42:54 40-foot back and 8-foot wall, your line of sight is

17:42:58 about a third of the way down with a 20-foot setback on

17:42:59 the inside.

17:43:03 This is the 40-foot to the 10-foot.

17:43:08 And the 20-foot setback with an 8-foot wall and 40-foot

17:43:08 stacking height.

17:43:12 Now keep in mind, this particular table addresses IH

17:43:15 zoning district where is there is no residential

17:43:17 surrounding the property.

17:43:21 The next table, table 2 identifies those properties

17:43:27 that are not IH that would have outdoor store but do

17:43:30 abut residential or separated by a right-of-way from

17:43:32 residential.

17:43:42 The worst-case scenario would be the 8-foot wall and

17:43:46 8-foot stacking height on table 6-2 on page 3.

17:43:48 The highest you can get when you are in that particular

17:43:50 layout is the 8-foot stacking height.

17:43:55 So a 5-foot setback, your line of sight is way above

17:43:55 the pile.

17:43:58 And then even at the farthest back of where the rear of

17:44:02 the house would be, if you immediately abutted it, your

17:44:04 viewing height is still above -- your line of sight is

17:44:12 still above the 8-foot pile with an 8-foot wall.

17:44:15 And those are the particular changes to that with those

17:44:15 graphics.

17:44:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council Saul-Sena.

17:44:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, quick question.

17:44:25 In some areas we have residential uses but not

17:44:26 residential zoning.

17:44:30 Does the way -- is the way that this is worded, would

17:44:34 it address the residential uses only if there was

17:44:37 residential zoning adjacent to the IH zoning.

17:44:39 >> We captured use and district.

17:44:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.

17:44:44 >> And use and district separated by an alley.

17:44:47 So even if you are a use or a district adjacent to it,

17:44:48 you have to follow the rules.

17:44:52 If you are a use or district separated by an alley, you

17:44:54 still have to follow the rules.

17:44:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Just off hand, can you think of

17:44:59 many situations where there is IH zoning adjacent to

17:45:02 residential?

17:45:05 >>CATHERINE COYLE: There may be some east of Ybor in

17:45:07 that particular area but that is probably the limited

17:45:10 case of where IH might be immediately adjacent.

17:45:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Would it be a problem in drew park?

17:45:17 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Drew park is IG, industrial general

17:45:20 so they wouldn't get the allowance.

17:45:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: How about in the port Tampa area

17:45:25 with industrial uses and also residential.

17:45:26 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Typically the area I am talking

17:45:31 about, a little east of Ybor.

17:45:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Port Tampa to the South.

17:45:39 >>CATHERINE COYLE: You mean -- oh, South, I am sorry.

17:45:40 The old one.

17:45:42 I believe the majority of the districts down there are

17:45:43 IG as well.

17:45:46 And most of the industrial is on the other side of

17:45:51 Commerce and Westshore and not on the South and east

17:45:54 side as typically separated because of the rail line

17:45:55 that went down there.

17:45:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

17:45:57 >>CATHERINE COYLE: You are welcome.

17:46:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.

17:46:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Interesting exercise in geometry.

17:46:07 I am looking at your table, 6-1.

17:46:15 It says "required fence wall height" like 6 feet for

17:46:16 example or even the 8 foot.

17:46:19 What if somebody with that type of, you know, buffering

17:46:24 issue -- I guess it would be table 6-2 -- or either

17:46:29 table -- what if they voluntarily put up a taller wall

17:46:33 and they sought a little bit higher stacking.

17:46:38 Based upon the geometry, we don't necessarily

17:46:39 accommodate that?

17:46:40 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No.

17:46:45 If you ask for a higher wall or a higher stack, it is a

17:46:48 variance to the variance review board.

17:46:52 Some people ask for a 10-foot wall or 12-foot wall or

17:46:55 ask for a 12-foot stacking height.

17:46:58 Under our current rules it is 6 feet and people have

17:47:01 asked for a higher height but it is a variance and they

17:47:05 have to show a hardship.

17:47:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.

17:47:09 Give us an example when we would use table 6-1 for

17:47:12 areas that do not abut residential district.

17:47:15 What would we be abutting there that we are stacking.

17:47:17 >>CATHERINE COYLE: More than likely other industrial

17:47:20 properties and or heavy Commercial properties.

17:47:23 Where you see the IH clusters, typically other IH, IG

17:47:28 and some CI, Commercial intensive along the major

17:47:29 corridors.

17:47:32 There may be pockets of residential in and around and

17:47:34 certain areas of the city.

17:47:36 I can only think of one out east.

17:47:40 But that's where adjacent to it or abutting it they

17:47:43 would be following 6-2.

17:47:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess my question is, if you abut

17:47:49 -- I guess it sort of goes back to the discussion we

17:47:56 had with Kimmins, abut industrial with industrial, why

17:48:01 do we care that much -- I mean why wouldn't we allow as

17:48:03 a matter of right a taller stacking?

17:48:07 >>CATHERINE COYLE: 40 feet seemed to be the amount if

17:48:08 I --

17:48:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't mean to go higher than 40.

17:48:11 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That's okay.

17:48:15 It was never the purpose of allowing it to go taller.

17:48:17 Industrial heavy next to industrial heavy you can get

17:48:21 up to 40 feet with your pile at a certain setback from

17:48:24 the fence or wall so that if the pile were to tip over

17:48:27 or shift over, that it wouldn't necessarily topple over

17:48:29 on somebody else's property.

17:48:32 But then the wall would be a little higher, 8 feet.

17:48:35 That is where you have industrial against industrial

17:48:35 typically.

17:48:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Like, for example, what is the

17:48:42 6-foot wall and a 6-foot -- and 10-foot minimum

17:48:47 setback, what would be an example of?

17:48:48 Is that industrial next to Commercial or something?

17:48:50 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Could be industrial next to

17:48:51 industrial.

17:48:55 If you -- if you put up a -- if all you can afford is a

17:48:57 10-foot setback because the property is that small, and

17:49:02 you put up a 6-foot wall, you will get a 6-foot height.

17:49:07 Put up a 8-foot wall, you get a 8-foot height.

17:49:10 Put two more blocks on your wall to get two more feet.

17:49:12 Trying to keep the separation of piles from the walls

17:49:15 so you didn't have too much spillage across property

17:49:16 lines.

17:49:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Becomes a function of enforcement

17:49:19 then?

17:49:21 >>CATHERINE COYLE: To measure them just like we do

17:49:24 with other setbacks or other items we have with

17:49:25 enforcement.

17:49:26 It becomes just like a setback.

17:49:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: A little harder because you are not

17:49:32 constructing something and coming in for a permit to

17:49:33 build something.

17:49:34 You are just piling stuff.

17:49:35 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Correct.

17:49:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And function of enforcement and

17:49:41 people complaining or not or whatever.

17:49:43 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Which is exactly what it is today.

17:49:44 It is complaint driven.

17:49:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

17:49:46 >>CATHERINE COYLE: You are welcome.

17:49:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.

17:49:50 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.

17:49:51 I have a couple of questions.

17:49:58 On page 3 under C which is shall -- sounds like the

17:49:59 exemptions from these.

17:50:01 Is that what that is?

17:50:03 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes, that was language that was put

17:50:05 in two cycles ago.

17:50:10 The Port Authority processed a privately amended text

17:50:11 amendment.

17:50:12 >>MARY MULHERN: That's already in there?

17:50:14 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Correct.

17:50:16 >>MARY MULHERN: But we are changing the height or

17:50:17 setbacks?

17:50:18 >>CATHERINE COYLE: We are not changing that particular

17:50:19 one.

17:50:20 They get 90 feet.

17:50:23 The setbacks may change depending on what the district

17:50:27 is they are asking for but they are allowed up to 90

17:50:29 feet.

17:50:31 >>MARY MULHERN: I am not sure.

17:50:35 We are going to have public comment on these?

17:50:39 Right I am not really comfortable with this, partly

17:50:44 because -- I mean, you showed the sight lines which is

17:50:46 important, the visual problems.

17:50:49 But what we have heard from the public is that often

17:50:52 the problem is not just for residential but also for

17:50:57 Commercial adjacent to these IH properties is the --

17:50:59 the dust.

17:51:05 And I think that I am not sure that I am ready to

17:51:12 approve a 20- or 40-foot height, stacking height if

17:51:14 that isn't already part of our code.

17:51:16 We are increasing it, right?

17:51:18 >>CATHERINE COYLE: We are increasing it.

17:51:21 I mean the reality of how those industrial heavy

17:51:26 properties operate is they do stack taller than 6 feet

17:51:27 currently.

17:51:27 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.

17:51:31 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The justification for the Port.

17:51:35 Stacking it 15 feet high for the port load the

17:51:39 aggregate and materials from the ship, 6 feet is not

17:51:41 cost effective for them or land --

17:51:45 >>MARY MULHERN: Aggregate land and businesses outside

17:51:48 the port and I thought that is at least what we -- the

17:51:54 neighbors had asked was that we not, you know -- and

17:51:56 our neighborhood associations that we could have

17:52:02 allowed that higher stacking height but only in the

17:52:03 port.

17:52:05 I am not really comfortable with this.

17:52:08 And I would rather investigate this some more, look

17:52:11 into this some more than pass this tonight.

17:52:12 So I don't know.

17:52:15 I guess I am going to have to hear if there is any

17:52:17 support on the council.

17:52:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is this first reading?

17:52:20 >>CATHERINE COYLE: This is first reading and do keep

17:52:24 in mind we hold public information workshops through

17:52:26 the course of the process and I did hold one a couple

17:52:27 of months ago.

17:52:31 And I didn't get much feedback on the open storage.

17:52:34 Other items tonight up for discussion but this one was

17:52:35 not.

17:52:38 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a question because of bringing

17:52:43 to mind a recent case that came in front of us -- I

17:52:46 think it was an appeal, wasn't it?

17:52:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The Kimmins.

17:52:53 >>MARY MULHERN: Had we had second reading on that or

17:52:53 --

17:52:56 >> That was denied.

17:52:59 >>MARY MULHERN: So how did we rule on that?

17:53:01 So we denied it.

17:53:02 >> Done.

17:53:05 >> The question might be what effect might this change

17:53:05 have.

17:53:11 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, that's what I am curious about.

17:53:14 I haven't weighed it against this particular property.

17:53:17 In the January cycle of this year due to several other

17:53:21 issues that actually -- that actually arose with the

17:53:24 I-4 and Crosstown connector.

17:53:27 Several industrial heavy properties through there that

17:53:29 were affected through eminent domain and questions came

17:53:32 up through those properties about stacking heights,

17:53:35 because historically, these properties have been there

17:53:39 since the '30s and '40s and '50s operating and stacking

17:53:41 heights are 30 to 35 feet.

17:53:42 >>MARY MULHERN: You are saying they are going to have

17:53:44 to move because of --

17:53:47 >>CATHERINE COYLE: By having a 6-foot -- by having a

17:53:49 6-foot height limit in our code, it became very

17:53:54 apparent to me after going out and visiting several of

17:53:57 these industrial heavy sites that are recycling, that

17:54:01 are other industrial uses that 6 feet is not feasible

17:54:03 for what they do.

17:54:07 They also do not operate at 6-foot height because of

17:54:09 the materials that they do -- typically it is

17:54:10 recycling.

17:54:15 Different ferrous and nonferrous materials and

17:54:17 stripping and shredding.

17:54:21 >>MARY MULHERN: I understand but maybe that is a

17:54:23 thought this we can investigate in between first and

17:54:25 second reading too that if you are talking about

17:54:33 aggregate is different than scrap.

17:54:37 And I think we heard that businesses were affected.

17:54:40 What I am hearing now -- did I hear you saying that the

17:54:44 businesses affected by eminent domain because of the

17:54:46 crosstown expansion are going to have to move?

17:54:48 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I did not say they will have to

17:54:53 move but they may -- they could be affected.

17:54:54 >>MARY MULHERN: So that means what we are doing is

17:54:59 creating possibly other new areas where we don't know

17:55:01 -- I mean I guess that will come in front of us if they

17:55:04 have to change their.

17:55:06 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Coupled with this, you are not

17:55:11 changing land use or zoning, the IH is where it is in

17:55:11 the city.

17:55:13 >>MARY MULHERN: The other question I had.

17:55:16 Where in the ordinance does it say IH.

17:55:20 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Above par b, pile heights may

17:55:24 exceed 6 feet in the IH zoning district subject to

17:55:26 table 6-1.

17:55:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Grown we need to do that.

17:55:30 >>CATHERINE COYLE: On page 2.

17:55:33 We restricted it to IH because that is typically where

17:55:37 you have those heavy, heavy industrial uses.

17:55:38 >>MARY MULHERN: The most intense.

17:55:39 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Correct.

17:55:41 The only district where these type of uses are actually

17:55:42 allowed.

17:55:45 In the city.

17:55:48 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.

17:55:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

17:55:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I still would like to hear if legal

17:56:00 has anything to say about that -- my question about --

17:56:04 >>JULIA COLE: Julia Cole.

17:56:07 That was a denied planned development zoning.

17:56:11 PD to PD planned development rezoning.

17:56:15 So -- I mean it was denied by you.

17:56:18 I mean, I guess the appeal time is still running so I

17:56:21 would probably suggest you keep comments to a minimum

17:56:23 on that.

17:56:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, I will keep comments but I can't

17:56:28 do anything about my memory.

17:56:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

17:56:32 My only comment would be the fact this is limited to IH

17:56:35 zoning which really is our heaviest most intense

17:56:39 industrial zoning gives me comfort this is not next to

17:56:42 residences and it say it is wouldn't be allowed next to

17:56:45 a residence.

17:56:47 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Correct.

17:56:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A residential use or residential

17:56:49 zoning.

17:56:51 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That was a clarification I made at

17:56:53 the suggestion of the people at the last public

17:56:56 information workshop.

17:56:59 >> I appreciate that but I also want to point out that

17:57:01 you can have pretty small areas that are zoned.

17:57:06 You can have a little buffer of something in between

17:57:08 something that was residential and also Commercial.

17:57:12 There is no protection for the guy with the car

17:57:18 dealership who's inventory is covered with dust.

17:57:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Public -- anyone from the public wish

17:57:22 to address council?

17:57:25 Anyone from the public?

17:57:26 >> Move to close.

17:57:27 >> Second.

17:57:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.

17:57:38 You are not supporting this?

17:57:39 Councilwoman Miller then.

17:57:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Chairman, in ordinance for the city

17:57:46 of Tampa, Florida, making comprehensive restrictions to

17:57:48 the City of Tampa Code of Ordinances chapter 27 zoning

17:57:52 amending section 27-138, open storage, repealing all

17:57:59 ordinances of R -- ordinances or parts of ordinances in

17:58:03 conflict therewith; providing for severability,

17:58:05 providing for an effective date.

17:58:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman did we ask if the

17:58:11 public want to comment?

17:58:11 Ail second it.

17:58:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.

17:58:16 Opposes?

17:58:19 >>MARY MULHERN: Nay.

17:58:23 >> Councilwoman Mulhern voting no and Miranda being

17:58:26 absent at vote.

17:58:32 Second reading.

17:58:35 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Item 11.

17:58:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 11.

17:58:41 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Catherine Coyle, Land Development.

17:58:43 Just prying prior to the cycle beginning to create a

17:58:45 used truck rental.

17:58:50 We created it as a special use 2 within the CG zoning

17:58:51 district.

17:58:54 We did research surrounding jurisdiction just to see if

17:58:56 that particular option was out there.

17:59:00 Creating as a special use 2 in the CG zoning district

17:59:06 would be allowed in CI, IG and IH where car rental

17:59:08 sales would be allowed.

17:59:10 As a special use, the particular special use standards

17:59:14 are on page 2, carried on to page 3.

17:59:17 Within the CG zoning district, the property shall

17:59:20 contain a minimum of 10,000 square feet the minimum for

17:59:21 CG zoning district.

17:59:25 The property should have frontage and direct access to

17:59:27 an arterial roadway.

17:59:30 Vehicles available for rental or lease shall not exceed

17:59:32 24 feet in length.

17:59:35 Storage areas for trucks to be leased in the rear of

17:59:38 the lot and screened from all areas of real estate with

17:59:42 a solid masonry wall with a minimum height of 6 feet,

17:59:46 in addiction to sections 27-130 buffer standard and

17:59:49 27-138 which are the open storage standards that we

17:59:50 just went over.

17:59:53 Page 3, letter e, the parking area for employees and

17:59:55 customers using rental services should be located in

17:59:57 the rear of the main building.

18:00:03 All vehicles or trailers for rent shall be parked on

18:00:06 either asphalt, concrete or pervious pavement pad or

18:00:10 other parking surface as approved by public works.

18:00:13 The number of trucks available to rental available to 1

18:00:16 per 400 square feet of undeveloped land and not exceed

18:00:18 10 trucks for any establishment.

18:00:21 10 seemed to be the standard number across the

18:00:21 jurisdictions.

18:00:24 And then only minor vehicle repair consistent with

18:00:27 table 4-1 should be allowed.

18:00:30 Minor vehicle repairs, belt changes, battery changes

18:00:34 and oil changes currently allowed in a CG

18:00:36 classification.

18:00:39 The change-out of similar types of fluids within this

18:00:41 particular district for this particular use.

18:00:43 There has been discussion with the public, some

18:00:45 positive, some negative.

18:00:46 Several of those people are here.

18:00:49 The gentleman who initially came before council to talk

18:00:53 about it is here as well.

18:00:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.

18:00:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

18:00:59 I do want to hear from the public on this from all

18:00:59 sides.

18:01:13 But I had a question about D, paren D and paren E.

18:01:17 Because I think as council recalls this discussion for

18:01:22 lack of a better term, to accommodate U-Haul type of

18:01:24 Operations within our neighborhoods and within our

18:01:25 community.

18:01:27 And really to recognize that they are there and they

18:01:30 have been operating there for many, many years.

18:01:33 And these types of, perhaps, gas stations or

18:01:35 convenience stores, you know, that sort of thing.

18:01:38 And we are trying to accommodate that and I think as a

18:01:42 matter of policy, I think council agreed that is not a

18:01:45 bad idea, as opposed to having to drive down to some

18:01:48 big central facility or something like that.

18:01:52 So with that said -- but then I look at item D, and

18:01:55 says storage areas for trucks to be leased shall be

18:01:57 located in the rear of the lot and screened from the

18:02:01 view with a solid masonry wall 6-foot minimum height

18:02:03 and references those two sections which I am not

18:02:05 familiar with.

18:02:10 The -- I think that's a laudable thing, but I am not

18:02:14 really sure, A, if it is realistic, because what if the

18:02:18 existing facility is -- you know, is -- is already

18:02:20 toward the rear of the lot, the building.

18:02:23 And the same thing with e, which requires that your

18:02:27 staff and customer parking has to go behind the

18:02:28 building.

18:02:32 So -- so it is like if we are designing a facility from

18:02:35 scratch, that's fine, but -- and then you are talking

18:02:38 about a masonry wall.

18:02:41 I know a lot of these facilities are already small to

18:02:42 start with.

18:02:46 I think you even referenced on there 10,000 square feet

18:02:49 or -- or in that range at a minimum.

18:02:54 So I am just wondering -- so we are requiring the

18:02:58 typical of a ma and pa u-haul place.

18:03:01 Build appear masonry wall 6 feet.

18:03:04 Most of these trucks are going to be taller than of

18:03:06 feet anyway, a lot of them.

18:03:09 And then building more walls up on the street level,

18:03:13 which frankly I don't think makes our city look better.

18:03:16 I think these walls up toward the street actually start

18:03:18 looking pretty ugly.

18:03:20 And sort of foreboding.

18:03:23 So I am just wondering where those two provisions came

18:03:23 from.

18:03:25 Did we pull those from other communities?

18:03:27 Or was that our own?

18:03:31 Or is that T.H.A.N. or what?

18:03:32 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Similar standards to other

18:03:35 jurisdictions that have this type of use that limit it

18:03:35 to 10.

18:03:38 The 27-130 referenced.

18:03:39 The buffer standards.

18:03:42 If you are adding a new use to a property and you are

18:03:45 adjacent to residential, it triggers buffer standards

18:03:46 in between Commercial and residential.

18:03:49 You are required a 6-foot wall.

18:03:51 So even through the permitting process, that would be

18:03:51 required.

18:03:54 That is why that standard is in there.

18:03:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But your 6-foot wall speaks to

18:04:03 screen from all views of all right-of-ways.

18:04:05 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Does not mean you need it on the

18:04:07 front of the property but could be around the back of

18:04:10 the property and storage area.

18:04:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But in reality, and I know what

18:04:14 these places are look like.

18:04:16 They are not set up that way.

18:04:17 >>CATHERINE COYLE: You have the ability because it is

18:04:20 a special use they are coming to you and you are

18:04:22 evaluating this criteria whether or not you would grant

18:04:26 an allowance or a waiver to one of those through the

18:04:27 process.

18:04:30 So you may have s-2s that come before that you are new

18:04:33 builds, and yet is do you want these standards to apply

18:04:36 because if they were not here, they wouldn't apply.

18:04:39 And you may have those that come to you that may want

18:04:41 to add the use and you can evaluate that based on the

18:04:43 general standards of the code whether or not through

18:04:47 the testimony and.evidence that is presented that one

18:04:49 of those could be waived through this process.

18:04:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I hate for us to go through this as

18:04:54 sort of a meaningless exercise and create standards

18:04:57 that people can't meet and we automatically throw them

18:04:59 into a variance situation.

18:05:02 And if I had noticed that earlier when it was -- when

18:05:05 it was before us, I would have mentioned it, but I

18:05:07 apologize for not.

18:05:10 Anyway, I will listen to hear what other members have

18:05:13 to say.

18:05:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.

18:05:20 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes, I quickly don't like some of

18:05:23 the things -- I know I was faced renting a truck this

18:05:28 past two weeks ago, and this happens to be on Fletcher

18:05:29 Avenue.

18:05:32 I believe it is in the county or maybe temple terrace,

18:05:33 I am not sure.

18:05:35 But they wouldn't have the ability to put parking in

18:05:39 the back, because there was a building already in the

18:05:39 back.

18:05:42 And I think we are going to be restricting.

18:05:46 And in fact I wanted a 26-footer, and he told me I had

18:05:48 to go over to Hillsborough Avenue.

18:05:52 And we are talking $.89 a mile.

18:05:57 When I got done, I did rent it from this woman out on

18:06:02 Fletcher Avenue, it ended up 90 miles, and I didn't

18:06:03 really go that far.

18:06:06 But if I had to go all the way over to Hillsborough, we

18:06:08 can not put restrictions on some of these small

18:06:10 businesses and that's a what he we are doing with this.

18:06:11 It is going to hurt them.

18:06:14 And believe me, they are busy.

18:06:18 This woman that runs the place, she was on the computer

18:06:20 calling here and calling there.

18:06:23 There are all types of restrictions that we are going

18:06:25 to be putting -- we will be hurting these small

18:06:26 business people.

18:06:30 >>CATHERINE COYLE: If I could, just a couple points.

18:06:33 Just to remind you council, obviously and clearly you

18:06:36 understand this, choosing to approve or not approving

18:06:39 these regulations is a policy decision on your part and

18:06:43 ultimately a policy criteria position so these can be

18:06:46 tweaked to meet the needs of what come out of this

18:06:47 discussion.

18:06:50 I want to take a step back and recognize this change

18:06:53 allows a particular use in Commercial general which is

18:06:55 the general Commercial general district throughout the

18:06:58 city which is the vast majority of the corridors in the

18:07:01 city have Commercial general in almost every

18:07:03 neighborhood, small and large lots.

18:07:06 Commercial general does not allow open storage.

18:07:10 Commercial general does not allow car sales and rental.

18:07:13 That is intense Commercial districts and industrial

18:07:13 districts.

18:07:16 This is a special allowance that is being created.

18:07:20 So I want to make that very clear that along these CG

18:07:24 corridors which are in the majority of the city,

18:07:27 placement of those trucks and visibility of those

18:07:30 trucks and stacking of those trucks is imperative.

18:07:33 You need to understand what you could be seeing as you

18:07:35 drive down these corridors.

18:07:38 Could potentially be -- let's say we just limited it to

18:07:41 10 and took away the other requirements along these

18:07:44 corridors, you could see truck establishment after

18:07:48 truck establishment, 10 here, 5 here, 10 here, 5 here.

18:07:51 The appearance of the corridors you also have to

18:07:53 balance when you are deciding on this policy change.

18:07:54 That's all.

18:07:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

18:07:57 Anyone from the public wish to address council on this

18:07:58 item?

18:08:07 Anyone from the public?

18:08:13 >> Margaret Vizzi, 213 S. Sherrill.

18:08:15 T.H.A.N. reviewed all of the proposed changes and this

18:08:18 is the one we had a real problem with.

18:08:22 As Cathy just said CG abuts just about every

18:08:22 residential neighborhood.

18:08:26 We don't like the idea that those -- that this is even

18:08:28 being considered.

18:08:31 Because right now it is not allowed in the CG.

18:08:38 It is allowed in the more intense Commercial areas.

18:08:42 And the visibility of these trucks, the impact on the

18:08:48 abutting residential, and council knows that CG abuts

18:08:51 residential everywhere in this city.

18:08:54 True, it is an S-2, and you will be having them come

18:08:57 before you for approval.

18:09:00 That means the neighbors have to come out and fight it.

18:09:04 This is the -- one of these proposed changes that

18:09:07 T.H.A.N. had a real problem with.

18:09:12 We are asking you not to do it for the many things that

18:09:13 you have heard.

18:09:17 The fences, for example.

18:09:21 These trucks are higher as Mr. Dingfelder said, and the

18:09:23 people will be able to see them if they are in the

18:09:24 back.

18:09:27 And all of the activity is being proposed in the back.

18:09:31 If it goes in the front, then you have the uglies, as

18:09:34 we call them, on the front for the people who are

18:09:40 riding through basically residential areas with -- the

18:09:43 Commercial general uses.

18:09:47 So Council, we ask you -- I know it is one man in came

18:09:51 to you, but -- in the hearings that I either watched or

18:09:57 attended, the -- the truck rental places were there.

18:09:59 They are looking for this to happen.

18:10:03 The next thing will be the car rentals that slipped

18:10:06 out, but that will be the next thing.

18:10:11 So this is not a good use abutting residential.

18:10:15 And that's what it will be doing all over the city.

18:10:19 So T.H.A.N. asks you of all of these that come before

18:10:21 you tonight, there is the -- we had questions about

18:10:24 some of the others, and there were some changes made

18:10:26 because of it.

18:10:32 But this truck rental, even with all the realization it

18:10:35 is an S-2 and all the things they would have to do, it

18:10:39 still does not protect residential, and that is what we

18:10:43 are supposed to be doing to make this a livable city.

18:10:44 So please say no.

18:10:52 Thank you.

18:10:56 >> My name is Chris walker, 559 South MacDill.

18:11:01 I am a U-Haul dealer at that location on MacDill.

18:11:03 A couple of reasons it is necessary to approve this

18:11:06 tonight is, first of all, economics.

18:11:11 You know we small businesses hire people to help us

18:11:12 keep these trucks going.

18:11:15 So, first of all, we are putting money back into the

18:11:15 community.

18:11:19 Second of all, like Commissioner Caetano just

18:11:23 mentioned, by having neighborhood dealers, it helps the

18:11:26 city stay green, because there is less carbon emissions

18:11:28 by driving these trucks.

18:11:30 He mentioned driving 90 miles.

18:11:32 How many miles did you actually need, I don't know, but

18:11:37 you could cut those miles down in half.

18:11:43 45 miles driving a truck around creating -- $.08 or

18:11:47 $.09 a mile and creating more carbon in the air.

18:11:49 Understand something about U-Haul.

18:11:54 Basically in the city three major truck route, Penske,

18:11:57 the Budget company and the U-Haul company.

18:12:00 Neighborhood dealers like myself is a U-Haul company.

18:12:03 There are 12 of us that are in the city limits of Tampa

18:12:05 as of today, okay.

18:12:08 U-Haul has been operating the city limits of Tampa for

18:12:10 over 40 years.

18:12:14 As some business goes out, they close down so on and so

18:12:14 forth.

18:12:16 I have been at my location for five years.

18:12:21 When I came on to that property, I cleaned the property

18:12:21 up.

18:12:22 I put money into the property.

18:12:23 I hired people.

18:12:25 And I am a good neighbor.

18:12:27 I am a good citizen here -- Corporate citizen.

18:12:32 I sponsor organizations, you know, churches.

18:12:37 I donate trucks -- I donate a truck two weeks ago to

18:12:38 code enforcement.

18:12:39 They need a truck.

18:12:42 Trying to get someone to move out of an apartment.

18:12:43 I donated the truck.

18:12:46 I donate to church.

18:12:47 Churches come for your yard sales.

18:12:50 This is what neighborhood dealer does.

18:12:51 I am not Corporate.

18:12:56 I am not big U-Haul on Gandy Boulevard or Hillsborough

18:12:56 Avenue.

18:12:58 That is not me.

18:12:59 I am a neighborhood dealer.

18:13:01 A small businessman who has a business that also rents

18:13:03 U-Haul trucks.

18:13:04 And there is a difference here, okay.

18:13:08 I am not going to have 20 trucks parked out there,

18:13:08 okay.

18:13:12 My -- my inventory is small.

18:13:15 You are saying 10 trucks.

18:13:17 I doubt if I will get ten trucks.

18:13:20 If I have seven, that's a lot.

18:13:22 Normally we keep five.

18:13:25 Five on the lot and usually most of the time two or

18:13:27 three of them are gone anyway.

18:13:33 So I don't see U-Haul putting trucks all over the city,

18:13:35 on all of these major corridors because it would be

18:13:36 ridiculous.

18:13:39 Just like any other store, you are not going to open it

18:13:42 up every other block -- opening the same type of

18:13:45 business up unless our bank.

18:13:48 But there is just more to this than what meets the eye.

18:13:49 We are neighborhood dealers.

18:13:53 You know, there is florists that rent truck in the

18:13:53 city.

18:13:57 Furniture businesses that rent -- rents trucks in the

18:13:58 city.

18:14:00 Convenience stores, auto sales.

18:14:02 Let me just say one more thing.

18:14:05 We are not -- we do not do any repair work at all.

18:14:08 We are not asking to do oil changes or tune-ups Or belt

18:14:09 repairs.

18:14:12 All of that is taken to the big shot where they have a

18:14:14 major repair center.

18:14:17 U-Haul has a major repair center.

18:14:19 20 bays, maybe more than that.

18:14:20 I am not doing mechanic work.

18:14:23 The most we ever do -- and I have one of my guys --

18:14:26 that we do is jump start trucks.

18:14:27 All right.

18:14:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right, thank you, sir.

18:14:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Can I ask him a question.

18:14:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder had a question

18:14:38 and then councilman Caetano.

18:14:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Walker.

18:14:40 Two questions.

18:14:43 One -- I think we asked this the last time you were

18:14:44 here.

18:14:46 I know the reason you came in to ask us to do this is

18:14:49 because the existing facility -- even though you have

18:14:52 been here five years -- somebody cited it as being

18:14:55 inconsistent with the CG zoning or something like that.

18:14:59 >> Yes, sir, what happened is the next-door neighbor

18:15:00 got cited.

18:15:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My question is do you know or guess

18:15:09 that other of your peers, U-Haul peers, the other 10 or

18:15:12 12 dealers some of them in noncompliance or typically

18:15:14 in noncompliance.

18:15:15 >> Truthfully we all are.

18:15:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That is what I suspected.

18:15:19 >> Yes, sir.

18:15:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You are not going to rat them out

18:15:24 but I suspect that is the case.

18:15:28 >> I own that one is not in compliance.

18:15:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The other question is, when you

18:15:31 mention the 10 vehicles like max.

18:15:34 Does that include trucks and trailers at any given

18:15:35 time.

18:15:35 >> Trucks.

18:15:37 The trailers, they just come and go.

18:15:38 They are small.

18:15:40 We usually keep them behind the building.

18:15:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.

18:15:45 >> If you want to reduce it down to, say, seven trucks.

18:15:48 We don't need ten trucks on the lot.

18:15:50 As long as -- we will work with you.

18:15:53 I will work with whatever guidelines this board, you

18:15:55 know, sets forth.

18:15:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

18:15:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.

18:16:01 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Sir, do you approve of this

18:16:02 ordinance the way it is written?

18:16:06 >> No, sir, but I am willing to live with it and do

18:16:09 what I have to do to stay in compliance.

18:16:13 I can't -- a couple of things on there -- I think

18:16:15 personally I have customers that are late at night and

18:16:16 other stores do too.

18:16:19 Locations parking cars behind our location is

18:16:21 dangerous.

18:16:23 Because I have women that rent trucks from me.

18:16:26 I have, you know, men who rent trucks from me.

18:16:27 Parking their car back there.

18:16:33 I happen to installed -- external lights for safety

18:16:36 reasons because I knew this was coming down the pike,

18:16:38 but I don't think it is for safety reasons.

18:16:41 I don't think it is a good idea, sir.

18:16:42 A liability.

18:16:45 If someone should get hurt or robbed or, you know,

18:16:47 anything that can happen.

18:16:50 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What is your largest truck?

18:16:53 >> 26-foot truck.

18:16:57 U-Haul has 24-foot trucks, and I don't really get

18:17:01 24-foot trucks in because the reason is they are old

18:17:02 trucks.

18:17:04 They are the ones that just stay here in town.

18:17:07 They usually keep those in the big centers.

18:17:10 A 26-foot truck is one I can rent -- I get a lot of

18:17:12 work off -- off the base.

18:17:17 The military folks who are moving and 26-foot truck is

18:17:18 the biggest one.

18:17:22 But -- if I have to be in compliance I will stay with a

18:17:30 17-foot truck.

18:17:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?

18:17:33 Thank you, sir.

18:17:35 Anyone else from the public?

18:17:36 Motion to close.

18:17:37 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.

18:17:38 >> Second.

18:17:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.

18:17:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: May I ask Cathy one more question.

18:17:45 You can make your motion.

18:17:52 CATHY on the reference, what type of a wall would be

18:17:58 between the CG use and the residential use under this

18:18:01 scenario?

18:18:05 >>CATHERINE COYLE: 6-foot high masonry wall.

18:18:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 6 foot high.

18:18:10 >>CATHERINE COYLE: They are allowed up to 8 feet in

18:18:13 Commercial districts and we require a minimum of 6.

18:18:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So -- I guess we could modify this

18:18:20 section d to require an 8-foot wall?

18:18:22 >>CATHERINE COYLE: You could.

18:18:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think that would probably be a

18:18:27 good idea and Ms. Vizzi brings that up.

18:18:30 I know you are still objecting to it, Margaret, but as

18:18:33 a matter of compromise, I think we should amend the

18:18:36 ordinance to be at a minimum of 8-foot.

18:18:39 I also think that -- the difference between a 24-foot

18:18:44 truck which sounds like it is now passe and a 26-foot

18:18:45 truck is nominal.

18:18:49 So I think we should amend section c to be a 26-foot

18:18:53 truck if U-Haul is not doing 24s, then that's kind of

18:18:54 silly.

18:18:57 Probably from somebody's older ordinance or something.

18:18:58 That would be my guess.

18:19:03 As far as the -- I am glad to hear that this is an SU

18:19:05 process because -- because it doesn't mean that tonight

18:19:06 is the end of the deal.

18:19:08 It means that these are the standards -- they are

18:19:12 pretty strict standards frankly by requiring walls, you

18:19:15 know, and this sort of thing, but it is the -- it is

18:19:17 the operate -- if the operator has a different site

18:19:20 plan, they will have to bring in their site plan, show

18:19:23 it to us, and say this is how I am operating and they

18:19:26 are going to have to ask for some conveyances on what

18:19:29 they are doing and they will have to ask for permission

18:19:32 for each and every individual site, correct?

18:19:32 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Correct.

18:19:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think this just starts the

18:19:37 process to allow these companies to go legal, because

18:19:42 if we don't do this, then as Mr. Walker said, 10 or 12

18:19:45 U-Hauls are theoretically shut down.

18:19:49 And I think that is not right or realistic.

18:19:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano?

18:19:54 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I would like to

18:20:01 amend this to 26 feet -- not to exceed 24 feet.

18:20:04 Not to exceed 26 feet.

18:20:09 As Mr. Walker said, some of these vehicles are probably

18:20:12 older vehicles and probably not as efficient as the

18:20:17 26-footers.

18:20:20 >> I second that.

18:20:23 >>CATHERINE COYLE: If I may a clarification on that.

18:20:26 Letter f, if council is inclined to approve this on

18:20:29 first reading, I would ask you -- read the title of it

18:20:31 and direct these changes for second reading.

18:20:34 Letter f, department of public works through the course

18:20:36 of this process has changed its Transportation division

18:20:39 so I would be making that change as a correct

18:20:40 reference.

18:20:42 Just to clarify that.

18:20:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And another tweaking is -- there is

18:20:48 some variance in terms of the language.

18:20:52 Like item f speaks to vehicles trailers for rent.

18:20:56 But elsewhere we talk about trucks it just seems like

18:21:00 we should be consistent just as a matter of drafting.

18:21:05 And we surely don't want this to become car rental as

18:21:07 Ms. Vizzi points out.

18:21:08 This is not what this is about.

18:21:10 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I think the reality is the use

18:21:14 itself I should probably include the word "trailer."

18:21:18 It is Commercial equipment which has strict limitation

18:21:20 in the CG zoning district as well.

18:21:23 So should be truck-trailer rental.

18:21:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Every paragraph has a different

18:21:26 term.

18:21:28 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I can make sure to use that over

18:21:30 and over.

18:21:31 I will correct that.

18:21:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.

18:21:35 And other than that, I would like to add the additional

18:21:39 buffering requirement under d to -- and this would be a

18:21:45 motion to add -- that if you have the CG or any of

18:21:47 these type of uses buffering against -- abutting

18:21:52 against a residential, that it is automatically an

18:21:55 8-foot wall, not a 6-foot wall.

18:22:03 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes, I wrote that down.

18:22:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It wasn't part of a motion so I am

18:22:07 making it part of the motion.

18:22:12 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Can I ask Cathy a question.

18:22:15 Does Mr. Walker own the property where he is at?

18:22:18 Can I ask Mr. Walker that?

18:22:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We already closed the public hearing.

18:22:22 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: This thing a problem that perhaps

18:22:26 the landlord will not permit a wall to be constructed.

18:22:30 This will essentially put him out of business.

18:22:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No.

18:22:35 You said he can come in for a SU.

18:22:37 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Come in for a special use and would

18:22:40 have to evaluate whether that 8-foot wall could be

18:22:41 waived.

18:22:43 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: We are making the small business

18:22:45 spend more money and it shouldn't be necessary.

18:22:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council --

18:22:48 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The changes --

18:22:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the motion on the floor then -- let

18:22:50 me understand.

18:22:54 Your motion is to move approval with the changes that

18:22:57 you and councilman Dingfelder tonight have mentioned.

18:22:59 Is that right?

18:23:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We already voted on the other

18:23:03 motion -- oh, we didn't vote on the other motion.

18:23:07 Excuse me, I will ask Mr. Caetano to amend his motion

18:23:13 to add the 8-foot additional buffer for paren d.

18:23:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

18:23:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I appreciate that you are trying to

18:23:22 make this a little tighter, but if you look at the land

18:23:24 use in our community, basically our residential areas

18:23:29 are hemmed with general Commercial zoning.

18:23:32 And this -- if we were -- if we allow this, it will be

18:23:36 a negative influence on the people who have to live

18:23:36 behind it.

18:23:38 We have heard clearly from T.H.A.N.

18:23:41 They have reviewed all of these proposals.

18:23:44 This is the only one that gives them concern because of

18:23:50 these trucks that are going to be parked right back up

18:23:50 to residential uses.

18:23:53 And I won't be able to support this, even with the

18:23:56 8-foot wall.

18:23:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

18:24:03 There is a motion -- how do we do this?

18:24:07 Read the ordinance with the changes of the motion?

18:24:09 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Read the ordinance and ask if the

18:24:10 amendment should be made between first and second

18:24:14 reading because read by title only and the title

18:24:14 doesn't change.

18:24:17 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Possible for me to restate very

18:24:20 clearly an concisely what those changes were?

18:24:23 I had making the truck and trailer language consistent

18:24:25 through each criteria.

18:24:29 Changing the length of the truck from 24 to 26.

18:24:31 Increasing the minimum height of the wall from 6 feet

18:24:34 to 8 feet.

18:24:38 And my particular change, changing Department of Public

18:24:42 Works to Transportation division.

18:24:46 >> Just for clarification, the 6 feet to 8 feet would

18:24:48 only apply if it abuts to residential -- a residential

18:24:50 use or residential district.

18:24:57 So in other words, if it bisects industrial --

18:25:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano, do you want to

18:25:01 read the ordinance?

18:25:03 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes, an ordinance of the city of

18:25:07 Tampa, Florida, making comprehensive revisions to City

18:25:09 of Tampa Code of Ordinances of Chapter 27 zoning,

18:25:13 amending section 27-77, official schedule of district

18:25:17 regulations amending section 27-272, regulations

18:25:21 governing individual special uses; repealing all

18:25:24 ordinances or parts of ordinances and N conflict

18:25:29 therewith; providing with severability, providing for

18:25:31 effective date and this includes increasing the size of

18:25:38 a truck from 26 and a 6-foot wall to 8-foot if it abuts

18:25:39 residential.

18:25:41 Is that what you wanted, Mr. Dingfelder?

18:25:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Correct.

18:25:45 The other changes that Cathy mentioned.

18:25:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

18:25:50 All those in favor signify by saying aye.

18:25:52 Opposes.

18:25:54 >> Motion carries with Saul-Sena vote nothing and

18:25:57 Miranda being absent at vote.

18:26:01 Second reading is December 3 at 9:30 a.m.

18:26:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What I would like to do council, one

18:26:07 item 16 for a vote.

18:26:09 So we can get those people out of here.

18:26:12 Our problem is that we -- we wanted to have a full

18:26:14 council, and we only have six people.

18:26:17 Mr. Miranda had to leave.

18:26:20 His wife was home by herself and she is ill.

18:26:23 So we only have six people.

18:26:28 So I am wondering if the petitioners want to move

18:26:29 forward with the vote tonight.

18:26:33 Miss Saul-Sena will not be here next week so we still

18:26:35 have six.

18:26:39 Items 16.

18:26:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Keep trying to vote and something

18:26:42 will happen.

18:26:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, then, we need to go ahead and

18:26:47 try to vote?

18:26:51 Mr. Shelby.

18:26:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, you may continue

18:26:56 reconsideration to the regular if there is a full

18:27:01 council for consideration 4 c, you can vote, council.

18:27:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The motion on the floor --

18:27:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Vote while I am here.

18:27:09 >> If I can, the motion is a -- is a continued appeal

18:27:14 hearing from November 5, 2009 on item 16 on petition

18:27:17 regarding decision the Zoning Adminstrator relating to

18:27:20 property at 2402 east Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

18:27:22 Boulevard.

18:27:28 The motion was made by Councilmember Saul-Sena for

18:27:33 first reading special unit s-1 over decision Zoning

18:27:35 Adminstrator approving a multiple family dwelling four

18:27:42 units in a CI intensive Commercial district in the City

18:27:44 of Tampa, Florida and approving waivers as set forth.

18:27:47 The motion was not adopted with Councilmembers Miranda

18:27:51 and Miller voting no and Councilmembers Mulhern and

18:27:53 Scott being absent at vote.

18:27:56 Previously continued to allow the absent members to

18:27:57 have reviewed the record.

18:28:00 My understanding that you are prepared to vote.

18:28:02 And that's fine.

18:28:05 Public hearing is closed and just a matter of recording

18:28:09 your vote -- or actually voting.

18:28:10 >> If I could just for the record.

18:28:14 The address is shown incorrectly on the screen.

18:28:18 Shows item 16 but shows Wilder Avenue.

18:28:20 You read the correct address but those reading it had

18:28:24 the wrong address.

18:28:28 >> 2402 east Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Boulevard.

18:28:30 If it is not in the computer, it will be a voice vote,

18:28:31 that's correct?

18:28:33 Okay.

18:28:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A voice vote.

18:28:39 >> Sir this is the first reading.

18:28:41 >>MARY MULHERN: Do we need to read the motion?

18:28:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It has already been read.

18:28:45 We just need to take a vote.

18:28:47 Okay all --

18:28:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: To approve.

18:28:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, go ahead.

18:28:55 All right.

18:28:59 All in favor of the motion signify by saying aye.

18:29:04 Opposed?

18:29:06 >> N ay.

18:29:09 >> Motion carried -- motion --

18:29:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think you have an individual

18:29:11 vote.

18:29:14 >> 3-3.

18:29:16 >> Roll call vote.

18:29:17 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: No.

18:29:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.

18:29:20 >>GWEN MILLER: No.

18:29:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: --

18:29:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.

18:29:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.

18:29:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.

18:29:30 >> Motion did not carry with Caetano, Miller and Scott

18:29:34 voting no and Miranda being absent to vote.

18:29:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So move this hearing over to the next

18:29:39 board meeting.

18:29:45 Okay.

18:29:46 Sorry.

18:29:51 Come back again.

18:29:53 Item 12.

18:29:56 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Item 12.

18:29:59 Catherine Coyle, Plan Development.

18:30:03 A amendment to the AMA 2, municipal airport.

18:30:07 Some change in language regarding radio-TV antennas.

18:30:10 This has been reviewed by the aviation authority, and

18:30:11 they did have no objections.

18:30:13 They worked through the language with the petitioner.

18:30:15 Staff as well has no objections.

18:30:18 The petitioner is here for comment.

18:30:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions from council?

18:30:20 Okay.

18:30:21 Any public comment on item 12?

18:30:27 Any public comment on item 12?

18:30:30 >> Good evening, Councilmembers, my name is Richard

18:30:30 Davis.

18:30:35 We would respectfully ask your affirmative vote on

18:30:35 this.

18:30:36 We have been working with your staff and the aviation

18:30:38 authority for quite some time.

18:30:39 Thank you very much.

18:30:42 I will certainly respond to any questions if you have

18:30:42 any.

18:30:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close the public hearing.

18:30:50 In all favor signify by saying aye.

18:30:52 Miss Saul-Sena.

18:30:56 >> Making provisions to the City of Tampa Code of

18:31:02 Ordinances chapter 27 zoning, amending section 27-272,

18:31:05 regulations governing individual special uses;

18:31:07 repealing all ordinances or parts of ordinances in

18:31:10 conflict thereabout; providing for severability,

18:31:13 providing an effective date.

18:31:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?

18:31:20 Moved and seconded.

18:31:23 Seconded by Councilmember Miller.

18:31:26 >> Motion carries with Mulhern voting no and Miranda

18:31:29 and Dingfelder being absent at vote.

18:31:35 Second reading at December 3 at 9:30.

18:31:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 13.

18:31:40 >>CATHERINE COYLE: General cleanup consolidated

18:31:43 ordinance of several smaller changes.

18:31:47 The first change on page 2 references the alcohol

18:31:47 beverage sales uses.

18:31:49 The special uses.

18:31:52 Large and small venue, temporary sales and sidewalk

18:31:54 cafe sales.

18:31:57 The piggyback on the sidewalk cafe ordinance for this

18:31:59 particular one which we presented to you in your

18:32:01 workshop as well as to the public.

18:32:05 The sidewalk cafe permit for alcohol will become an

18:32:10 administrative permit that is coupled with either the

18:32:13 City Council approved sidewalk cafe permit that comes

18:32:15 from Transportation or the administratively approved

18:32:18 Transportation permit.

18:32:21 Just to clarify, sidewalk cafe permits for alcohol

18:32:24 sales are essentially an extension of the alcohol sales

18:32:25 that are inside.

18:32:28 You can not just get alcohol on the sidewalk.

18:32:28 [Laughter]

18:32:31 You do have to have an inside use.

18:32:34 This particular special use would be restricted to an X

18:32:38 which is restricted to on-site consumption only or an

18:32:41 R, an extension from the restaurant on the inside.

18:32:44 It follows the same time frames and renewal dates as

18:32:46 the sidewalk cafe permit.

18:32:49 That way they run together and can be renewed.

18:32:52 The changes for the general alcoholic beverage sales

18:32:55 permit, the three above that in the table, a

18:32:57 clarification of the s-1.

18:33:04 Currently right now request for R designations write in

18:33:09 large-scale Commercial developments of 500 square feet

18:33:12 or more are required to go as a special use 1.

18:33:15 And it was really kind of an error in the way it was

18:33:16 written initially.

18:33:17 It shouldn't have been in a requirement.

18:33:21 It should have been a may process.

18:33:22 The rules stay the same.

18:33:25 They have to close at midnight and all the other rules

18:33:25 stay the same.

18:33:32 What this did though was require those Rs essentially

18:33:36 in the malls to force them into an appeal.

18:33:37 That was the intent.

18:33:38 Should have been a may.

18:33:42 Process as a S-1 if they want to live by the rules.

18:33:45 If they can't or don't want to, they can come to you as

18:33:47 a special use 2, not as an appeal.

18:33:49 That was really an oversight when we originally wrote

18:33:52 it.

18:33:55 The -- the next change on page 3 at the top.

18:33:59 The striking of the TQD zoning district.

18:34:00 An old reference.

18:34:01 We struck that district years ago.

18:34:03 That is just a cleanup item.

18:34:08 There is also a reference in the table 4-2.

18:34:11 It is a very tiny little superscript under interior

18:34:12 lot.

18:34:13 Says number 8.

18:34:15 It was a misreference.

18:34:18 It should have been referenced on the table but

18:34:20 unfortunately it is not.

18:34:21 That is a cleanup item.

18:34:26 The bottom of page 3, attenuation requirement, 27-135,

18:34:27 137.5.

18:34:31 You will notice at the top of page 4, we are striking

18:34:35 5-326.5 and changing to 5-301.

18:34:38 The correct reference in the building code because that

18:34:40 particular provision was updated.

18:34:46 27-272 on page 4 for large venue alcoholic beverage

18:34:46 sales.

18:34:52 This is the cleanup leading into page 5, where -- what

18:34:55 the requirement is separated from the 0 feet if you

18:35:03 were processing as a special use 1 and 1,000 feet if

18:35:07 you were processing through special use 2 --

18:35:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Say that again, a little slower.

18:35:12 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Sorry, the large venue alcohol

18:35:17 sales within large Commercial venues can process as

18:35:19 either a s-1 or s-2.

18:35:22 You can process as an s-1 and you have to close at

18:35:23 midnight.

18:35:26 You can process -- or if you don't want to close at

18:35:26 midnight.

18:35:30 Process as a special use 2 and 1,000-foot separation

18:35:32 and a general one that you would hear regularly.

18:35:35 The same criteria.

18:35:38 Page 6 is a sidewalk cafe.

18:35:38 Changes.

18:35:40 This is to put it in line with the Transportation

18:35:43 division sidewalk cafe permit.

18:35:46 The time frames are the same as that permit and that

18:35:49 relates back to those regulations.

18:35:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Excuse me, Mr. Chairman.

18:35:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.

18:35:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Going back to what you said before

18:35:58 about the 1,000-foot separation, they don't -- they

18:36:03 don't typically have 1,000-foot separation at any of

18:36:05 these facilities, right?

18:36:08 >>CATHERINE COYLE: International Plaza does.

18:36:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 1,000 month to separation between

18:36:12 each other.

18:36:14 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Not from each other.

18:36:16 They would be asking for that waiver just as they do

18:36:17 today.

18:36:20 The only way you can get a Special Use 1 for a

18:36:23 large-scale venue and large-scale Commercial shopping

18:36:28 center is if you agreed to take an R designation and

18:36:30 close at midnight, the only allowance that happened in

18:36:33 that discussion two years ago with City Council and the

18:36:33 public.

18:36:36 Unfortunately when we wrote it, we wrote "shall process

18:36:38 as a S-1."

18:36:42 We really meant to write it as "may" so they can come

18:36:43 to you as an S-2.

18:36:48 By writing it "shall" it forced them into an appeal and

18:36:49 very strange process.

18:36:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Shall maintain a distance

18:36:56 separation of 1,000 feet from each other from other

18:36:58 alcoholic establishments.

18:37:05 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That's correct.

18:37:10 The last sentence for R classification that process as

18:37:16 a S-1, such request shall maintain 0 feet close at 12.

18:37:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So if it is not an R.

18:37:21 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Not an R and they don't close at

18:37:24 12, they are coming to you as a S-2 and they have to be

18:37:27 1,000 feet away.

18:37:29 And you are negotiating the time frames of when you

18:37:33 have to close.

18:37:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.

18:37:38 >>MARY MULHERN: That is how we are processing them

18:37:38 now.

18:37:41 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Correct.

18:37:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?

18:37:46 Coil the -- just so you can see it Mr. Dingfelder

18:37:49 leading back to your sidewalk cafe permit from earlier,

18:37:54 page 7 at the top, letter E, sidewalk cafes are not

18:37:57 permitted to have outdoor amplified music.

18:38:00 We put that same provision in both codes.

18:38:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

18:38:03 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Irregular lots.

18:38:04 This one is almost done.

18:38:07 A couple of cleanup items.

18:38:11 Irregular lots on bottom of page 8 -- on to page 9, a

18:38:14 bad reference to diagram that explained what that was.

18:38:16 So I cleaned that reference up.

18:38:23 27.294 under the special use conforming standards,

18:38:24 nonconforming standards.

18:38:27 This is just cleanup language when those establishments

18:38:29 were lawfully selling.

18:38:31 Public notice requirements.

18:38:36 That was generated by the legal department to follow

18:38:39 state statute, notice procedures and the definitions.

18:38:43 Adding in a definition of arbor, institutional uses,

18:38:49 large scale, trellis due to ongoing design issues and

18:38:49 questions we have.

18:38:51 And those are the general changes.

18:38:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

18:38:56 Any additional questions, councilman Dingfelder.

18:38:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

18:39:03 One more question, Cathy, on the R designation, they

18:39:07 maintain 0 feet from other AB uses, residential uses

18:39:10 and institutional uses.

18:39:12 How does that work?

18:39:15 I am reading that in a couple of different places.

18:39:18 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes, well, the first one is on page

18:39:19 5 for the large venue.

18:39:21 That is when you are over 299 people.

18:39:28 If you are processing as an R and for a S-1, you are

18:39:30 maintaining 0 from all of those uses and closing at

18:39:31 midnight.

18:39:34 That is the only way I can approve it through a S-1

18:39:34 process.

18:39:38 Otherwise it is 1,000 feet and 3:00 technically.

18:39:42 But it is coming as an s-2 to City Council.

18:39:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So if you have a restaurant next to

18:39:48 a restaurant in International Plaza and they can't

18:39:53 process as a -- as -- as an R -- as an S-1?

18:39:53 >>CATHERINE COYLE: They can.

18:39:55 Because it is 0 feet.

18:39:59 It is the sentence in paragraph 3.

18:40:03 It says request shall maintain a distance separation of

18:40:07 1,000 feet from these different types of uses.

18:40:12 R and processed as a S-1, they are 0 feet and close at

18:40:20 midnight.

18:40:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So what if -- should it say

18:40:29 maintain a minimum distance of 0 feet or a maximum

18:40:31 distance of 0 feet?

18:40:34 I don't know, it is confusing to me.

18:40:39 I don't understand the intent of the actual language.

18:40:41 >> The only way to apply it if they are directly

18:40:43 adjacent to each other.

18:40:46 Less than 1,000 feet but more than 0, it would have to

18:40:49 be an S-2 is what you are saying.

18:40:54 Only way S-1 if it is 0 and only adjacent to each

18:40:54 other.

18:40:56 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The true intent it doesn't matter

18:40:59 if you are processing administratively.

18:41:01 What is feet wise.

18:41:03 If you were closing at midnight, you are taking the R.

18:41:05 That was the real intent.

18:41:08 Trying to take you out of the 1,000 feet.

18:41:11 I can tweak it if it doesn't make sense.

18:41:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we should tweak it because

18:41:14 it doesn't make sense.

18:41:15 But that is just me.

18:41:17 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I can add a minimum of -- maintain

18:41:20 a minimum of 0 feet.

18:41:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Probably -- if that is what our

18:41:24 tint is.

18:41:27 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I mean really what it is.

18:41:29 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Less than 1,000 feet or fewer

18:41:31 than 1,000 feet?

18:41:33 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Could you say it that way too.

18:41:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You have between now and second

18:41:36 reading to clean it up.

18:41:39 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I will either put in a minimum of

18:41:41 or less than 1,000.

18:41:43 I will think about it.

18:41:47 In both of the changes on page 5 and page 7 for small

18:41:49 venues, the same rules.

18:41:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is a public hearing.

18:41:54 Anyone wish to address council on this item?

18:41:57 Item 13?

18:41:58 >> Motion.

18:41:58 >> Second.

18:42:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.

18:42:05 You want to read item 13?

18:42:07 >> Thank you already Mr. Chairman.

18:42:10 I move an ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida

18:42:12 making comprehensive revisions to the City of Tampa

18:42:15 Code of Ordinances chapter 27 zoning amending section

18:42:18 27-77 official schedule of district regulations

18:42:23 amending section 27-137.5 noise attenuation

18:42:24 requirements.

18:42:29 Amending section 27-242, governing individual special

18:42:34 uses amending section 27-294, special uses not to be

18:42:35 considered nonconforming.

18:42:40 Amending section 27-394, public notice of requirements

18:42:43 amending section 27-545, definitions.

18:42:46 Repealing all ordinances or parts of ordinances in

18:42:51 conflict therewith providing for severability providing

18:42:52 for an effective date.

18:42:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

18:42:56 All in favor signify by saying aye.

18:42:58 Opposed.

18:43:01 >> Motion carried with Caetano and Miranda being absent

18:43:02 at vote.

18:43:08 Second reading December 3 at 9:30.

18:43:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Take up item 14.

18:43:14 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Thank you, council.

18:43:17 Catherine Coyle, planning development.

18:43:20 This should be straightforward for the Garrison

18:43:21 entertainment district.

18:43:24 A cleanup item directed by the administration.

18:43:26 If you look at the map that was made part of the

18:43:27 ordinance.

18:43:30 12 character districts within the downtown and in the

18:43:33 channel district six to the east.

18:43:38 The Garrison channel entertainment district was already

18:43:40 in existence as one of the character districts of

18:43:41 downtown.

18:43:44 Throughout the last five to ten years, as things have

18:43:48 developed, this particular district actually as it was

18:43:51 developed has expanded; however, the boundaries that

18:43:53 describe it really hasn't.

18:43:56 With the introduction of the streetcar connecting

18:44:00 through this corridor, with the buildup of the forum

18:44:03 here, as well as the shops in this part of Garrison

18:44:08 channel, the aquarium, and the adjacent public uses

18:44:11 here up to the northern end of the aquarium parking

18:44:16 along with the increase of use, tourist attractions and

18:44:18 so on from the cruise terminals.

18:44:22 It just made sense as a first step of redoing the

18:44:26 overall downtown to recognize this truly as the channel

18:44:29 the Garrison channel entertainment district with all

18:44:32 the tourist attractions in that particular district.

18:44:34 Over the next year or two we will be revising and

18:44:37 updating the overall downtown plan and this is kind of

18:44:40 the first step in recognizing how the district is

18:44:42 played out over the last decade.

18:44:45 So really a boundary change and a description change.

18:44:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council Saul-Sena and councilwoman

18:44:51 Mulhern.

18:44:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: When I first started reading this I

18:44:56 thought it would have cobwebs on it.

18:44:59 Such an antiquated approach.

18:45:02 We allowed the port to build a parking structure with

18:45:05 no retail downstairs, nothing active, just cars.

18:45:10 That is just pitifully antiquated and because we

18:45:11 haven't approved our rules.

18:45:13 These rules -- nothing personal -- but they aren't a

18:45:15 big improvement.

18:45:19 I mean, I -- I am really eager for us to move ahead

18:45:21 working in conjunction with the downtown partnership to

18:45:24 come up with rules that really reflect the vision that

18:45:28 we all now have for an active downtown.

18:45:31 This feels very 1973ish.

18:45:35 And, you know, I am going -- I will go along with --

18:45:39 that it is no worse within that we currently have, but

18:45:41 we really need something better, and I hope that

18:45:44 working with a new person, Mike Callahan, you all can

18:45:47 work double time and get better rules in place so we

18:45:50 don't have more parking garages and surface parking

18:45:53 lots that are not indicative of the kind of downtown

18:45:55 and channel district we want to have.

18:45:58 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I can say just for the record that

18:46:01 as one of the main focus -- Mike Callahan's main focus

18:46:05 is to update 25-year-old plans.

18:46:09 So that is definitely an initiative and mission of the

18:46:10 administration at this time.

18:46:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do you have any idea what the time

18:46:13 frame is?

18:46:15 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I believe it will happen within the

18:46:17 next year or two.

18:46:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It needs to happen --

18:46:20 >>CATHERINE COYLE: He is currently working with the

18:46:25 partnership and go over the overall scheme.

18:46:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We don't have to invent it.

18:46:29 We can steal it from a smart city.

18:46:31 We can do it quickly because this is not representative

18:46:33 of what we want our downtown to be.

18:46:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.

18:46:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.

18:46:40 I have a different concern and that is that we are

18:46:44 combining a very large area, maybe -- I am not sure,

18:46:47 Linda, if you think this is a good idea to combine all

18:46:49 these areas into one district.

18:46:56 But my real concern is that I am not ready to add the

18:46:59 aquarium parking lot into the entertainment district

18:47:03 because at this point, it is a parking lot and the city

18:47:05 own it is.

18:47:09 And I have some -- I think many of us had some hope

18:47:14 that might become a part of -- a part of a park or

18:47:19 public land or open -- some waterfront open to the

18:47:23 public and I am afraid by adding that parking lot it

18:47:28 becomes up for -- up for grabs for entertainment --

18:47:29 entertainment, whatever that is.

18:47:35 So -- I would be comfort if we could cut it up at the

18:47:39 building -- at the actual building of where the

18:47:41 aquarium is.

18:47:44 And not north of there.

18:47:45 Is that north?

18:47:52 Yes, are not north of there.

18:47:54 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Quite frankly to play that you have

18:47:57 comment, the word "entertainment" can easily be taken

18:48:01 tout recognize the entertainment venues and the feel of

18:48:03 that touristy area.

18:48:05 The Garrison channel district today.

18:48:09 The term "entertainment" can be removed from the title

18:48:11 of the district because the description describes all

18:48:12 these that are within that.

18:48:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That is an excellent suggestion.

18:48:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I can't see any other reason to do

18:48:24 this than to add kind of some more land to -- to this

18:48:28 district and make it attractive to -- for sale.

18:48:30 I don't really see what other reason we would be doing

18:48:31 that.

18:48:36 And I am not comfortable with that.

18:48:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.

18:48:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Cathy, can you put the map up for a

18:48:45 second.

18:48:48 Yeah, the other map you have actually -- well, maybe it

18:48:52 is the same one, you just colored it in.

18:48:55 The does it really encompass all of the parking where

18:48:57 you are showing the dashed line?

18:49:01 It appears to me that it really stops short or cuts

18:49:03 halfway into that parking or something.

18:49:07 On the one that you gave us that is not colored in, it

18:49:08 shows --

18:49:10 >>CATHERINE COYLE: As I understand this goes to the

18:49:19 limits of the aquarium/city-owned property/the --

18:49:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Cruise terminal.

18:49:24 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The green parking lot.

18:49:26 The stormwater retention initiative that was done that

18:49:28 area.

18:49:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My other question is really trivial

18:49:33 and with all due respect to the Garrison family if they

18:49:34 still exist.

18:49:38 I don't know if anybody knows what Garrison channel is.

18:49:41 I don't know which channel is Garrison channel.

18:49:42 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The main --

18:49:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The north-south.

18:49:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I thought the Ybor.

18:49:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Which someone the Ybor and which is

18:49:52 the Garrison.

18:49:55 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Thing is Garrison and this is Ybor.

18:49:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Linda talks about being more

18:49:58 modern.

18:50:01 Why don't we amend it to say the Channelside

18:50:05 entertainment district because that the terminology we

18:50:07 have elsewhere.

18:50:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: They are having it swing up past

18:50:10 the new --

18:50:14 >> JOHN DINGFELDER: But the Channelside --

18:50:17 >>MARY MULHERN: They don't call it Channelside, the

18:50:19 channel district.

18:50:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This includes the shopping.

18:50:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Aren't we looking all the way up?

18:50:23 Am I reading --

18:50:25 >>CATHERINE COYLE: This is just the extension.

18:50:28 This is the Garrison channel district right now.

18:50:31 This is the expansion of it that basically bridges the

18:50:34 two because of the way that this property is developed

18:50:35 over time.

18:50:36 We have added in a museum.

18:50:37 We have added in the shops.

18:50:40 We have added in the aquarium.

18:50:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Call it channel district.

18:50:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Channel district.

18:50:47 >>MARY MULHERN: The channelside is the name of the --

18:50:51 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Channelside is the name of the

18:50:52 proper --

18:50:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Channel district.

18:50:55 You are including the channel district.

18:50:56 The whole district.

18:50:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I don't get this.

18:51:00 Nothing personal but I don't see any compelling reason

18:51:01 to do this.

18:51:05 Is there any compelling reason to do this?

18:51:08 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The first step of unifying this

18:51:10 particular tourist district.

18:51:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You need to include the word

18:51:15 "pedestrian" and the word "bicycle-friendly" do not

18:51:18 appear anywhere in here.

18:51:20 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Just a description of the district.

18:51:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Wait.

18:51:23 If you were saying transit-related which I totally

18:51:24 support.

18:51:28 You need to also say pedestrian and bicycle friendly.

18:51:31 If we are talking about the character of an area, those

18:51:34 are the characteristics that we want it to have.

18:51:38 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes, I acknowledged the River Walk,

18:51:43 I did not put in pedestrian or bicycle friendly.

18:51:45 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to suggest that we not

18:51:50 vote -- not approve this tonight because -- I think we

18:51:52 need to see the district plan before we start changing

18:51:56 names and boundaries and adding property on.

18:51:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You want to continue it then?

18:52:01 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, maybe continue it.

18:52:02 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Would you continue to the next

18:52:04 cycle.

18:52:05 >>MARY MULHERN: To the next cycle.

18:52:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion -- the motion by

18:52:10 councilwoman Mulhern is to continue it to the next

18:52:10 cycle.

18:52:14 Seconded by councilwoman Saul-Sena.

18:52:17 All in favor -- excuse me, any public comment?

18:52:20 No one from the public wishes to address council on

18:52:21 this item?

18:52:21 Okay.

18:52:22 We will continue the item then.

18:52:26 All in favor signify by saying aye.

18:52:27 Opposed?

18:52:28 Okay.

18:52:30 What I would like to do, council, at this point jump

18:52:39 down to item 17 -- 15 is a staff item.

18:52:44 Staff report.

18:52:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 15 we just need to --

18:52:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: For some reason you say discuss -- on

18:52:53 here to discuss the draft Transportation technical

18:52:55 manual and -- asking five minutes.

18:52:58 >>MARY MULHERN: I have questions on that.

18:53:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It is best to go continue to the

18:53:01 public.

18:53:02 We will be here a while on that one.

18:53:05 Item 17.

18:53:07 >> Mr. Chairman if you want to swear in the witnesses

18:53:09 for the judicial hearings.

18:53:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Items 17 through 21.

18:53:13 Open up the public hearing.

18:53:13 >> Motion.

18:53:15 >> Is second.

18:53:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All those in favor signify by saying

18:53:19 aye.

18:53:21 Those addressing council please stand and be sworn.

18:53:25 If you were going to speak tonight, stand and be sworn.

18:53:30 If you were going to be speaking.

18:53:31 [Oath Adminstered by Clerk]

18:53:37 >> Mr. Chairman, I want to ask items that are received

18:53:40 and filed in connection to tonight's hearing.

18:53:43 They have been available for public inspection at City

18:53:43 Council's office.

18:53:46 I ask that they be received and filed into record.

18:53:48 >> Move to receive and file.

18:53:48 >> Second.

18:53:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by Councilwoman

18:53:52 Saul-Sena.

18:53:56 Those in favor signify by saying aye.

18:53:56 Oppose.

18:53:58 Item 17.

18:54:07 Take up item 17, the first one.

18:54:28 >> Item 17 on your agenda is V09-3083410 and 3412 East

18:54:29 Wilder Avenue.

18:54:32 A request for a special use of residential property as

18:54:34 a place of a registered assembly.

18:54:36 There are four waivers associated with this request.

18:54:40 The first is to reduce the required setback from 40

18:54:44 feet to 7 feet and the South yard setback from 20 feet

18:54:45 to 7 feet.

18:54:49 The second is to allow access to a local street, E.

18:54:50 Wilder Avenue.

18:54:53 The third is to reduce the required parking from 64

18:54:58 spaces to 24 spaces which is a 62 and a half reduction

18:55:02 and the last is to allow for 100% grass parking with

18:55:14 the exception of the drive aisles and the ADA spaces.

18:55:19 I didn't show you the zoning atlas of existing area.

18:55:22 Subject property is shown here in green Wilder to the

18:55:26 South, 34th street to the West, 36th street to the

18:55:26 east.

18:55:33 This is Fair Oaks Park community center to the South of

18:55:37 the large parcel.

18:55:40 This is the area of the subject property.

18:55:43 You will see there are two existing structures on the

18:55:44 properties.

18:55:47 These are currently functioning as a place of religious

18:55:48 assembly.

18:55:52 There was an expansion of the existing church on-site.

18:55:55 That is why this triggered a new special use for this

18:55:55 property.

18:55:59 Parking on the site plan before you will be located

18:56:04 both to the west and to the east of the property.

18:56:12 Show you a few pictures of the site.

18:56:16 The existing structure on the east.

18:56:22 The existing structure on the west.

18:56:27 The existing parking area on the west.

18:56:32 The soon-to-be parking area on the east.

18:56:37 This is moving east down Wilder.

18:56:40 Single-family residential.

18:56:45 This is on the South side.

18:56:51 Pictures of Fair Oaks.

18:57:00 This is a view looking toward 34th.

18:57:03 They are requesting a special use approval to construct

18:57:06 a new 214-feet sanctuary.

18:57:10 They are going to be utilizing the existing building.

18:57:16 The setbacks 7 foot north, 7 foot South, 53.8 inches

18:57:19 west and 74.4 east.

18:57:29 Vehicular access located off of Wilder Avenue.

18:57:32 64 spaces are required and 24 are being provided with a

18:57:36 waiver for the deficit.

18:57:40 There is an incorrect statement there.

18:57:43 There were three findings of inconsistencies which if

18:57:45 these items were reconciled between first and second

18:57:49 reading and corrections were made to the site plan,

18:57:50 then staff would find this consistent.

18:57:53 The first is that on the site plan, it shows a 6-foot

18:57:56 PVC fence going around the entire property.

18:57:59 I believe that is a typographical error.

18:58:03 That symbol needs to be removed and also we need some

18:58:06 clarification on some of the other symbols located on

18:58:06 the site.

18:58:09 Urban design, since this is located in the East Tampa

18:58:12 overlay would like a note added that prior to the

18:58:15 permitting, the applicant would meet with the urban

18:58:17 design division to coordinate additional architectural

18:58:20 embellishment.

18:58:23 Last Transportation wanted the traffic flow shown on

18:58:25 the site plan.

18:58:28 I also provided you with a special use criteria for

18:58:30 place of religious assembly.

18:58:33 The staff is available should you have any questions.

18:58:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Are there any questions?

18:58:38 Okay.

18:58:42 Planning Commission.

18:58:43 >>TONY GARCIA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

18:58:46 Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.

18:58:48 I have been sworn in.

18:58:50 A couple of other comments to add to Miss Feeley's

18:58:53 comments this evening on this particular case, the site

18:58:57 is located within the East Tampa CRA area.

18:59:00 East Tampa is defined as an urban village within the

18:59:01 comprehensive plan.

18:59:03 It is also identified from the City of Tampa as being

18:59:07 not just a CRA but the largest CRA that the City of

18:59:09 Tampa does have.

18:59:12 The classification for this particular area is

18:59:15 recreation 10, recreation open space to the South that

18:59:19 Miss Feeley has already identified as recreation way of

18:59:21 serving the community.

18:59:23 Here you can see the aerial and you can see that the

18:59:27 church basically does serve a growing residential area

18:59:30 and you can see on a greater scale, the significant

18:59:33 residential presence in the area, and, of course, how

18:59:35 the church has become part of the fabric of the

18:59:36 community.

18:59:38 Planning Commission staff proposes that it is

18:59:40 consistent with the comprehensive plan.

18:59:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

18:59:42 Any questions?

18:59:43 Petitioner?

18:59:47 Petitioner?

18:59:55 >> My name is Thomas Hills and live at 5005 north 20th

18:59:58 Street, Tampa, Florida.

19:00:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, sir.

19:00:03 Do you have anything you want to say or add to the

19:00:04 record?

19:00:09 >> Well basically the church -- the part that we are

19:00:13 replacing is really just almost the same function,

19:00:19 except the church was built in 1940, and it needs to be

19:00:23 either refurbished or something to come up to today's

19:00:23 standards.

19:00:27 And the church just needs to be upgraded to keep doing

19:00:33 the good work that they are doing in the community.

19:00:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

19:00:35 Anything else you want to add.

19:00:37 Is that it?

19:00:38 >> Yes.

19:00:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.

19:00:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, sir, welcome.

19:00:45 Staff sing recommending certain changes to your site

19:00:47 plan and that sort of thing.

19:00:49 Have you had a chance to review that and are you okay

19:00:51 with that?

19:00:52 >> Oh, sure.

19:00:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

19:00:54 Any other questions?

19:00:54 Anyone from the public?

19:00:59 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item

19:00:59 17.

19:01:01 >> Move to close.

19:01:02 >> Second.

19:01:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: move and seconded.

19:01:06 All in favor, say Aye.

19:01:08 Councilwoman Miller.

19:01:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you Mr. Chairman in order to

19:01:13 approve a Special Use Permit S-2 approving a place of

19:01:18 religious assembly and RS-50 single family zoning

19:01:23 district in 3410 and 3412 east wilder in the City of

19:01:28 Tampa as more provided in section 1 providing an

19:01:29 effective date.

19:01:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That includes those changes that were

19:01:37 mentioned here, division sheet, November 12, 2009.

19:01:38 Those include the motion.

19:01:40 Is there a second?

19:01:43 Moved and seconded.

19:01:46 Second by Councilwoman Mulhern.

19:01:48 All in favor signify by saying aye.

19:01:50 Opposes?

19:01:55 >> Motion carries with Miranda being absent at vote.

19:02:00 Second reading December 3 at 9:30.

19:02:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Caetano seconded that motion.

19:02:05 Make that correction and give him the credit.

19:02:06 Second.

19:02:11 [Laughter]

19:02:13 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Trying to get some help from

19:02:15 upstairs.

19:02:17 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Abbye Feeley, Land Development

19:02:18 Coordination.

19:02:25 Item 18, V09-361, locate the a 3815 north Phillips

19:02:26 Street.

19:02:30 A special use petition for place of religious assembly.

19:02:33 A couple of waivers also, and as indicated in the staff

19:02:35 report, several of these must be added in between first

19:02:38 and second readings.

19:02:42 The first is to reduce the required east yard setback

19:02:43 from 40 feet to 7 feet.

19:02:47 The second is to allow access to a local street.

19:02:49 The third is to reduce the required parking from 27

19:02:53 spaces to 24 spaces.

19:02:57 The fourth is to allow for 100% grass parking.

19:03:01 And the last is to reduce the required drive from 26

19:03:05 feet to 22 feet.

19:03:09 Those as indicated, waiver number 1, waiver number 3,

19:03:13 waiver number 4, and waiver number 5 either need to be

19:03:20 revised or added in between first and second reading.

19:03:24 This is also -- they are going to be removing the

19:03:27 existing structure that I am about to show you and

19:03:38 constructing a new 2954-square-foot church.

19:03:40 This is the zoning atlas.

19:03:42 This is Martin Luther King, Jr.

19:03:43 To the north.

19:03:45 Phillips to the west.

19:03:48 You will see these four lots right here.

19:03:49 There is one residential.

19:03:52 There is, like, a vacant lot here and one residential

19:03:59 nonconforming use here and business is here.

19:04:01 I have another zoning atlas street because there was

19:04:04 another large special use for place of religious

19:04:11 assembly shown here in blue, just to orient you.

19:04:17 >> I am sorry, z 09-361.

19:04:20 >> I think they have the wrong title.

19:04:22 >> I think they have the wrong title and address at the

19:04:23 top.

19:04:26 >> On the revision sheet.

19:04:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The address is wrong.

19:04:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Should be Phillips.

19:04:34 >>ABBYE FEELEY: The revisions are right but the

19:04:35 address on the top is wrong.

19:04:38 >>MARY MULHERN: 3815 North Phillips?

19:04:41 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes, I apologize to that.

19:04:43 >> I am going to make that correction and this to the

19:04:45 Clerk.

19:04:55 I will be the junior Clerk tonight.

19:04:59 >>ABBYE FEELEY: This is the picture of the subject

19:05:02 property.

19:05:05 This is just east.

19:05:07 This is all the subject sites.

19:05:12 And this is the -- the vacant part of the existing

19:05:15 site.

19:05:19 This is across the street on Phillips.

19:05:22 This is also across the street on Phillips.

19:05:26 This is to the north of the subject property, the

19:05:28 vacant area.

19:05:33 I believe it goes with the residential use.

19:05:36 This is moving north toward MLK.

19:05:40 This is the house at the corner of MLK.

19:05:41 And Phillips.

19:05:48 And then is the business that is at the southwest

19:05:50 corner of Phillips and MLK.

19:05:58 This is the back portion of that, the Commercial part.

19:06:04 And this is looking from Phillips across MLK to

19:06:09 distribution.

19:06:13 There was a finding of inconsistency with these plans.

19:06:16 There could be changes in between first and second

19:06:19 reading that would allow for a finding of consistency.

19:06:21 I would like to go through those briefly.

19:06:24 They do need to address the waivers as I just

19:06:25 described.

19:06:29 They also need to adjust the tree table and the vehicle

19:06:32 use area calculations for tree and landscape.

19:06:35 They also need to have that same fencing issue where

19:06:37 the fence was shown around the entire property and

19:06:40 appears to be a typographical error and that needs to

19:06:42 be removed.

19:06:45 They also need to label their grand tree on the site

19:06:45 plan.

19:06:48 I know David riley is here this evening.

19:06:50 They had some parking spaces that needed to be

19:06:55 barricaded in order to protect the grand tree on-site.

19:06:59 And they needed the -- Transportation had the waiver

19:07:02 and urban design had the note that they wanted added

19:07:06 for review prior to any permitting on the site.

19:07:09 Thank you.

19:07:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Planning Commission.

19:07:19 >>TONY GARCIA: Tony Garcia see I can't, Planning

19:07:20 Commission.

19:07:20 I have been sworn.

19:07:23 This will sound a lot like the one before working the

19:07:25 East Tampa, again, area of the city.

19:07:29 This is within the East Tampa CRA.

19:07:29 This area again.

19:07:32 The only difference is this one is right on the

19:07:34 northern edge of the city limit.

19:07:36 You can see Hillsborough county to the north of this

19:07:40 particular area.

19:07:42 Along east Martin Luther King, Jr. Boulevard and, of

19:07:45 course, along 50th street to the west.

19:07:49 Both are collector -- actually both, arterial roads.

19:07:54 The site as you can see is -- is mid-block.

19:07:57 I believe that the applicant has made the proper

19:08:01 requirements and will acquiesce to whatever the

19:08:04 conditions are stipulating to the waivers that Miss

19:08:10 Feeley was talking about due to whether the location

19:08:12 where it is at.

19:08:14 Along the aerial, again, we are talking about serving a

19:08:17 pretty good residential area that is being represented

19:08:20 in this particular section of town.

19:08:23 Planning Commission staff found the proposed request

19:08:25 consistent with the comprehensive plan.

19:08:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

19:08:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you already Mr. Chairman.

19:08:32 I would like for Mr. Rile tow come up and talk about

19:08:35 the protective barrier around the tree.

19:08:37 Do you think if the petitioner puts up the barrier that

19:08:38 the tree would survive.

19:08:41 >> David Riley, Parks and Recreation.

19:08:42 I have been sworn.

19:08:44 What we had asked for was that the two parking spaces

19:08:48 in front of the tree be removed, and then that would be

19:08:50 the area that would be barricaded.

19:08:55 And I think if they agree to that, we -- the tree would

19:08:57 be fine.

19:09:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay, thank you.

19:09:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions, council?

19:09:07 Petitioner.

19:09:14 >> Thomas hills, I live at 5805 North Tampa Street,

19:09:15 it, Florida.

19:09:17 On the grand tree, we have already adjusted the site

19:09:21 plan to move those two parking spaces.

19:09:28 Also, they have been there, church for quite a while.

19:09:31 And they have the position that they own the land and

19:09:34 they just want to make an improvement so they can have

19:09:36 a better place where they can worship at.

19:09:38 And just an improvement for the neighborhood and

19:09:39 something good for everybody.

19:09:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You are in concurrence or agreement

19:09:44 with these provisions.

19:09:45 >> No problem with them at all.

19:09:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We just want to get it on the record.

19:09:49 That you are in agreement.

19:09:51 >> Oh, sure, no problem at all.

19:09:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

19:09:55 Council have any questions?

19:09:59 Anyone from the public wish to address council on this?

19:09:59 Flynn the public.

19:10:02 >> Move to close.

19:10:04 Second.

19:10:06 All in favor, say Aye.

19:10:06 Councilwoman.

19:10:08 >> Thank you.

19:10:11 I would like move an ordinance approving a Special Use

19:10:14 Permit S-2 approving a place of religious assembly in

19:10:18 RS-50 residential single family district in the general

19:10:22 vicinity of 3815 North Phillips Street in the City of

19:10:24 Tampa Florida and more particularly described in

19:10:27 section 1 hereof providing an effective date and

19:10:30 including the comment on the revision sheet that we

19:10:33 handed to the city Clerk.

19:10:37 For 3814 Phillips Street.

19:10:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

19:10:41 Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.

19:10:44 All in favor signify by saying aye.

19:10:47 Opposed?

19:10:50 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent

19:10:51 at vote.

19:10:55 Second reading December 3 at 9:30 A.M.

19:10:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 19.

19:11:16 Item 19.

19:11:19 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Abbye Feeley, Land Development.

19:11:22 Item 19, z09-38.

19:11:26 A request for rezoning from a RS-50 to a PD to

19:11:30 construct single family detached what you typically is

19:11:32 known as a duplex.

19:11:34 One waiver to reduce the required visitor parking from

19:11:42 one space to zero.

19:11:45 The petitioner is proposing to rezone the property to a

19:11:50 PD to develop two residential uses in a semi detached

19:11:50 style.

19:11:54 The PD setbacks are as followed.

19:11:58 A 5-yard seven foot.

19:12:02 South, west the front at 25 foot and east at 15 foot.

19:12:04 The building height is proposed at 28 feet and the

19:12:07 maximum of 35 feet would be allowed.

19:12:10 Park something provided through a single-car garage and

19:12:14 a space on the driveway.

19:12:18 Show you the zoning atlas -- actually kind of an

19:12:19 eclectic mix here.

19:12:23 This is the subject property shown here in green.

19:12:29 Everything on the Eastern side of Adelia in this block

19:12:34 segment is RM-16 with the exception of PD at the corner

19:12:34 here.

19:12:38 We have one RM-16 piece on the west side and the rest

19:12:40 is RS-50.

19:12:43 You have a large PD in the middle that you will see on

19:12:47 the aerial and RM-13s, CIs.

19:12:48 There is mixture.

19:12:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What is actually built now?

19:12:54 I know this is that particular little quadrant has

19:12:57 become a hodgepodge of zoning.

19:12:59 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Predominantly duplexes on the east

19:13:00 side.

19:13:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Older?

19:13:06 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes and you will see the reason we

19:13:10 have semi family detached standards and on the west

19:13:13 side is predominantly single-family with one duplex.

19:13:19 So it really is -- it is almost predominantly duplexes

19:13:22 with one or two single family on the east side and

19:13:24 single family --

19:13:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When you teach a zoning class,

19:13:30 teach this as classic spot zoning.

19:13:33 >>ABBYE FEELEY: To me it was kind of amazing this

19:13:35 little guy got left off.

19:13:36 Split the baby in the middle.

19:13:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Different property owner clearly.

19:13:45 >>ABBYE FEELEY: This is the aerial, adelia to the

19:13:46 west.

19:13:47 Interbay.

19:13:50 Just a little bit further South.

19:13:56 Trees in that area.

19:14:02 This is the subject.

19:14:04 This is north of the property.

19:14:06 What you are going to see is a lot of walls and

19:14:08 windows.

19:14:09 Some walls, no windows.

19:14:12 This is a vacant property also to the north.

19:14:16 This is to the South of the subject property.

19:14:18 Single story.

19:14:20 This is two doors down to the South.

19:14:22 The two story.

19:14:24 Two units.

19:14:26 On the sides with the garage face the front.

19:14:31 There are no doors facing the front which single family

19:14:34 detached, you now have to have doors facing the front.

19:14:38 Directly across the street.

19:14:43 This is traveling north on the western side of the

19:14:44 street.

19:14:52 South on the western side the street.

19:14:54 That is also South of the property.

19:14:58 And this is a look north of the subject property.

19:15:01 These are -- these are two units also, but the doors

19:15:06 face in and the side wall of the structure faces the

19:15:13 street.

19:15:16 Staff found this petition -- let me just go over what

19:15:18 they are going to construct.

19:15:21 It is surrounded by multifamily to the north and south

19:15:24 and single family to the east and west.

19:15:26 A mix of single family duplex.

19:15:28 Subject property is one of the only remaining

19:15:32 single-family detached on that side of the street.

19:15:40 And there were a couple comments that needed fixing in

19:15:43 between first and second reading.

19:15:45 We have the guest parking so that's good.

19:15:47 We just need them to show the sidewalk through the --

19:15:51 share the sidewalk through the driveway and also the

19:15:54 tree calculation was incorrect.

19:15:58 It needs to be reduced to just be one because they have

19:16:02 credits for trees being preserved on-site.

19:16:03 Staff analysis on three and four.

19:16:06 We did find this petition consistent with those two

19:16:09 modifications of the driveway, meaning the sidewalk

19:16:12 needing to be delineated through the driveway and for

19:16:17 the tree table to be corrected.

19:16:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?

19:16:27 Thank you.

19:16:30 >>TONY GARCIA: Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.

19:16:32 I have been sworn.

19:16:35 This site located in the South Tampa area in close

19:16:40 proximity to MacDill Air Force Base.

19:16:42 As you can see here to give you a little more context.

19:16:45 Future land use map.

19:16:51 Fewer higher density type of categories here.

19:16:53 CMU-35 is here.

19:16:57 Residential 35, residential 50, residential 35,

19:16:59 residential 20, residential 20 and, of course,

19:17:01 residential 10 here.

19:17:03 As Miss Feeley has already described to you this

19:17:06 particular character on this block is -- has got a

19:17:09 great percentage of duplexes on it.

19:17:13 Particularly represented mostly on the Eastern face of

19:17:14 the street.

19:17:18 Several other units on the other side.

19:17:23 It does single detached units on the west side of the

19:17:25 street, but the character definitely is going to be of

19:17:27 a single-family character.

19:17:31 These are a much smaller scale type of structure on

19:17:31 this particular block.

19:17:34 And you can see in this particular area of South Tampa,

19:17:36 variety of housing product that is available because of

19:17:39 its location to a variety of different locations in

19:17:43 addition to MacDill air force base that does have a

19:17:46 significant amount of people that do come had to and

19:17:52 from the base, but as you can also see, it is in fairly

19:17:55 close proximity to Gandy boulevard and Dale Mabry which

19:17:59 are two significant arterials and quite a bit of

19:18:01 Commercial uses in proximity to the site that does

19:18:04 attract a lot of people in the area and a lot of people

19:18:07 work in the area because you have a lot of larger areas

19:18:11 to this arterial.

19:18:15 Planning Commission staff found the request consistent

19:18:15 with the comprehensive plan.

19:18:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?

19:18:21 Petitioner?

19:18:28 >> Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.

19:18:34 My name is Rich O'Brien, the agent for Mike Cooper, who

19:18:34 is the petitioner.

19:18:37 And I am a landscape architect and I will go through a

19:18:40 few points for the site.

19:18:46 Just -- both Tony and Abbye touched on it but number

19:18:50 someone dealing with the compatibility and Tony said

19:18:54 the future land use is R-20.

19:18:56 Not only on the east but on the west.

19:18:59 Just as you get South, half a block South of the

19:19:02 property, the future land use and zoning is for much

19:19:03 higher density.

19:19:06 This is kind of a poor quality google photo of the --

19:19:10 basically an apartment complex just to the South of it.

19:19:13 And then -- I will quickly pull that off.

19:19:17 Zoning on the entire street obviously they said was

19:19:19 RM-16.

19:19:22 Almost like we got kind of notched out this particular

19:19:22 property.

19:19:26 And every home on our side, the single family semi

19:19:30 detached except us and the one on the South corner and

19:19:32 we have four units, two buildings of duplexes on the

19:19:34 other top of the side.

19:19:40 Now my second point, and I definitely covered this

19:19:43 because being a landscape architect, I always tried to

19:19:47 be -- be as environmentally friendly as I can as

19:19:48 environmental protection.

19:19:51 And I put the plan on there basically just a basic

19:19:56 color plan, showing that we -- there are three oak on

19:19:56 the property.

19:19:58 One of which is a grand oak.

19:19:59 On the back of the property.

19:20:02 And we preserved all those and we actually kept the

19:20:05 building about 26 feet from the back property line over

19:20:07 20 feet away from these trees.

19:20:10 And then there is an oak just to the north -- the north

19:20:11 of the property line.

19:20:14 I mean it is almost right on the property but on the

19:20:16 adjacent property and then to the grand oak to the

19:20:17 South.

19:20:20 And where that oak is just north of the property line,

19:20:24 I -- we even moved the building not 7 feet from the

19:20:27 property line, but notched it in to be 10 feet from the

19:20:30 property line to try to help to protect that tree's

19:20:30 health.

19:20:35 And then over this -- over half this site -- because it

19:20:36 is a low area.

19:20:39 Anybody who knows this area know that it is a low area.

19:20:43 We made half a site pervious so when we have

19:20:45 rainstorms, we can try to get as much rain to

19:20:48 infiltrate as opposed to running off the property

19:20:51 causing any potential flooding concerns.

19:20:57 And then third point deals with the precedent.

19:20:59 There is a lot -- seven lots to the north of this.

19:21:06 They applied for a PD for single-family semi detached.

19:21:13 Approved in February 2005, and they requested a waiver

19:21:16 for no garage and all parking was on driveway which is

19:21:19 definitely not what we are asking for.

19:21:22 Then I am just going to go briefly through just some

19:21:27 design goals, and you can see that --

19:21:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Hold on.

19:21:31 Anyone here in opposition to this petition?

19:21:34 Anyone in opposition?

19:21:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to.

19:21:40 >> I can close.

19:21:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

19:21:42 All in favor, say Aye.

19:21:44 Opposed?

19:21:48 Councilman Dingfelder?

19:21:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Know when to hold them and know

19:21:52 when to fold them.

19:21:53 This one you can hold.

19:21:59 Move the ordinance for property vicinity of 6416 South

19:22:04 Adelia as described in section 1 from RS-50 residential

19:22:09 family to PD residential semi family semi detached by

19:22:09 effective date.

19:22:13 I commend you guys for building anything these days.

19:22:14 More power to you.

19:22:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

19:22:19 Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.

19:22:20 All in favor, say Aye.

19:22:21 Opposed.

19:22:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Sensitive to the existing oak.

19:22:27 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent

19:22:30 at vote and second reading December 3 at 9:30 A.M.

19:22:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 20.

19:22:58 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Council, Abbye Feeley, Land

19:22:58 Development.

19:23:05 The last rezoning on your agenda is z 09-30.

19:23:08 3324 South MacDill Avenue.

19:23:14 PD to PD for business professional office and two

19:23:15 residential.

19:23:22 The site was previously PD in '03 for six city

19:23:25 loft-style apartments or condos.

19:23:27 It was a three-story building.

19:23:32 And I do have some of the -- the site plan from that as

19:23:34 well if we need to go back.

19:23:36 But the petitioner came to me and thought that office

19:23:38 was an allowable use on that.

19:23:40 And we researched that and found it was not.

19:23:44 In order to add an additional use, they need to come

19:23:45 back before City Council and one of the reasons we are

19:23:47 here today.

19:23:50 There are several waivers associated with this.

19:23:52 One, to reduce the required buffer on the north

19:23:57 property line from 15 feet with a 6-foot masonry wall

19:24:01 to 3 feet with a 6-foot PVC fence.

19:24:03 Another to reduce the required buffer on the east

19:24:06 property line from 15 feet with a 6-foot wall to 2 foot

19:24:09 with a 6-foot fence.

19:24:14 And also to reduce the buffer on the South from 15 with

19:24:21 a 6-foot masonry wall to 6 foot.

19:24:25 To reduce from 26 feet to 24 feet and lastly to

19:24:29 decrease the allowed percentage of exact faces from 65%

19:24:34 to 71%.

19:24:38 I am going to show you some pictures of the site.

19:24:49 Also I wanted to let you know for the record, did I

19:24:54 include a letter from Karen Lee that was provided to

19:24:57 me, to our office on November 9 and was requested to be

19:25:05 provided as part of the record.

19:25:07 And zoning atlas first.

19:25:09 I am sorry.

19:25:12 This is the zoning atlas, the site is shown here in

19:25:13 green.

19:25:18 The large PD to the top is the Academy of the Holy

19:25:18 Names.

19:25:23 There is a multifamily condo here in the RM-24.

19:25:27 The Adams House which is an assisted living facility,

19:25:30 congregate living facility located immediately to the

19:25:34 South and along MacDill, you have a variety of uses.

19:25:36 There is a barbershop.

19:25:39 I will show you a picture on the corner.

19:25:41 A single-family home here.

19:25:48 This is north of El Prado which is down here.

19:25:50 I think we are pretty familiar with this area and of

19:25:53 course Bayshore located here to the east.

19:25:58 Here is the aerial.

19:26:03 The site interfaces with parking area to the school,

19:26:08 and also with the Adams House and the condo development

19:26:14 to the north.

19:26:22 Here is a picture of the subject property.

19:26:25 See the site with the trees located on the periphery

19:26:30 lot like that.

19:26:34 This is terrace to the north.

19:26:36 Adams house to the South.

19:26:37 This is directly west the site.

19:26:39 The parking area.

19:26:44 This is at the southeast corner, the single-family

19:26:45 house I referred to.

19:26:48 Southwest corner is the barbershop.

19:26:51 And there is some retail in there.

19:26:56 And that parking area is just -- this is looking north

19:26:58 from the site toward the pedestrian bridge that crosses

19:27:08 over MacDill.

19:27:13 They are requesting a rezone to 3-story, 41-foot

19:27:16 maximum height for office building with two loft

19:27:16 apartments above.

19:27:19 The breakdown of the building includes park parking on

19:27:20 the ground floor.

19:27:22 3,000 square feet of business professional office on

19:27:27 second floor, and the two -- two, two-bedroom loft

19:27:30 apartments on the third floor, the setbacks are as

19:27:34 follows: To the north 7, to the south 7, west 34 feet

19:27:36 and east 49 feet.

19:27:39 Total of 14 parking spaces are required and 14 spaces

19:27:42 are being provided with the exception of the waiver to

19:27:49 the 71% exact of 65% exact is allowable by code.

19:27:52 Site is surrounded by multifamily residential office

19:27:56 and site plan district and include a three-story

19:27:59 multifamily development to the north which I showed you

19:28:01 assisted living facility and parking for the academy of

19:28:04 the holy names to the west.

19:28:07 There was one discrepancy with the green space

19:28:07 calculation.

19:28:10 We just needed them to change the table.

19:28:13 The other inconsistency was with stormwater.

19:28:16 And there is a representative from stormwater here this

19:28:17 evening.

19:28:20 In the original PD, there was a note on the plan, and I

19:28:22 did pull it and make a copy today -- that says that the

19:28:25 site will meet City of Tampa stormwater technical

19:28:29 standards, the petitioner wishes to keep that condition

19:28:31 on the plan.

19:28:34 Stormwater is requesting for two different conditions,

19:28:37 wording and standards to be referenced on the plan.

19:28:39 And I believe the petitioner will speak further to that

19:28:41 when they make their presentation.

19:28:45 Outside of that, staff did find this consistent with

19:28:52 the PD criteria, and I provided my analysis on pages 3,

19:28:55 4, and 5 of the staff report.

19:28:58 Thank you.

19:29:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can I request a question?

19:29:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, go ahead.

19:29:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

19:29:07 If the petitioner is wanting to build a 41-foot

19:29:10 building, don't they have to ask for a height waiver or

19:29:13 is that an allowable height within this district?

19:29:16 >>ABBYE FEELEY: In a PD, you can ask for whatever

19:29:20 height you desire, the underlying zoning district would

19:29:22 be 35 feet.

19:29:26 So a variance of let's say 6 feet.

19:29:29 Maybe not a waiver because there is no underlying

19:29:33 regulations that PD replaces those regulations.

19:29:34 And --

19:29:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Not asking for a waiver because it

19:29:38 is a PD to a PD.

19:29:39 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Correct.

19:29:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But had it been what it was

19:29:43 previously it would be a waiver?

19:29:46 >>ABBYE FEELEY: We typically don't show it as a waiver

19:29:49 because the underlying zoning is no longer there.

19:29:51 It goes away.

19:29:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Planning Commission?

19:29:59 >>TONY GARCIA: Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.

19:30:04 I have been sworn.

19:30:09 I think Miss Feeley has done a pretty good job of

19:30:12 giving you an idea as far as what is going to be

19:30:15 requested shortly over here by the representative for

19:30:16 the applicant.

19:30:21 You can see pretty clearly, this is in the South Tampa

19:30:25 area South of the intersection of Bay to Bay and

19:30:30 MacDill, a little South of the LeRoy Selmon Crosstown

19:30:31 Expressway.

19:30:35 Miss Feeley already stated a variety of uses on MacDill

19:30:36 Avenue.

19:30:41 Do you have public, quasi public academy of the holy

19:30:45 names and boys academy to the north and variety of

19:30:46 residential uses along this particular segment of

19:30:48 MacDill.

19:30:51 Some neighborhood-serving Commercial uses and general

19:30:53 Commercial uses and of course as you get a little

19:30:56 further up past the school which is really not shown in

19:30:57 this picture.

19:31:00 Let me go ahead -- let me show you quick, this

19:31:01 residential 35 and residential 10.

19:31:06 The quasi public residential 83 and residential 20 over

19:31:06 here.

19:31:10 And this is -- this is one scale of the -- of this

19:31:12 particular segment of MacDill.

19:31:15 But here is one that has a little bit greater skill to

19:31:19 give you an ideas.

19:31:23 Mid-intensity type of strip center further to the

19:31:24 north.

19:31:27 For many of us in the years gone by and of course this

19:31:30 crosstown expressway over here directly to the west.

19:31:33 As you go farther down, especially when you get down to

19:31:36 about Euclid, you really get more into a solid

19:31:39 residential type of component with the exception of.

19:31:41 There was some little neighborhood serving Commercial

19:31:44 area almost like little town centers you a you get

19:31:47 South of Euclid and then pretty much after that was

19:31:50 pretty much solid residential all the way down Gandy.

19:31:52 This particular segment is almost like a mixed bag and

19:31:55 a variety of things that you have over your

19:31:56 institutional uses.

19:31:59 The Adams house which is, you know, a community-serving

19:32:02 type of use and of course this type of use over here.

19:32:05 I will say from what was originally approved on this

19:32:09 site several years ago by this body which was for a --

19:32:12 six residential units like town homes.

19:32:15 The scale and mass does not really very significantly

19:32:17 vary from what was originally approved.

19:32:21 It was almost have reached the point where they would

19:32:24 almost have to come in without having to deviate from

19:32:27 what the original size of the building was going to be.

19:32:29 As far as the character and design of it, if you were

19:32:32 -- if you drive down MacDill, very similar to what some

19:32:35 of the newer structures built on MacDill consistent of

19:32:37 which is first level of parking and then you have

19:32:37 residential.

19:32:41 What is significantly different over here and I

19:32:43 wouldn't necessarily call it signature, but you have a

19:32:46 vertically integrated mixed use project here which is

19:32:49 what we are looking more for.

19:32:49 This more for professional office.

19:32:53 I didn't hear anything about medical office which would

19:32:54 require a great deal more parking.

19:32:57 So you don't have a significant amount of parking here

19:33:00 so I don't know where it is really going -- that much

19:33:03 more to having any kind of adverse Transportation

19:33:06 impact on MacDill even though we know this part of

19:33:08 MacDill is already pretty congested.

19:33:12 But when you think of a six residential units, it would

19:33:15 almost theoretically have almost more because a 24-7

19:33:16 use.

19:33:18 This will not be a 24-7 use as far as the office

19:33:19 component is concerned.

19:33:22 So a little bit of a trade-off there.

19:33:23 Planning Commission staff found the proposed request

19:33:27 consistent with the comprehensive plan.

19:33:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions from council?

19:33:31 Thank you, sir.

19:33:37 >> Council, I found an error I would like to correct

19:33:38 before you get to the Commissioner.

19:33:41 There is a parking waiver for one space.

19:33:43 After the revision I believe they met with

19:33:45 Transportation and there was some functionality that

19:33:46 was not working.

19:33:49 So Transportation had them redesign the section and

19:33:51 there was a waiver for one space of parking.

19:33:53 So from 14 spaces to 13.

19:33:55 That would need to be added in between first and second

19:33:56 reading.

19:33:59 So it would be that and then the modification.

19:33:59 Thank you.

19:34:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

19:34:04 Petitioner?

19:34:07 >> Mr. Chairman, council, thank you.

19:34:10 For the record Michael hornier, 14502 North Dale Mabry

19:34:14 highway representing the applicants in order of the BK

19:34:16 Properties.

19:34:19 To receive and file a package for each of you.

19:34:26 One for each.

19:34:44 Mr. Chairman, we appreciate -- and I have been sworn

19:34:44 for the record.

19:34:48 With me tonight also is Mr. Chris McNeil, McNeil

19:34:51 Engineering and Mr. John Westfall of Waterford

19:34:54 construction who will be developing the property.

19:34:58 We have worked diligently with staff over the past few

19:34:58 months.

19:35:03 We appreciate the efforts of abbye and Tony Garcia.

19:35:04 I think Tony is right.

19:35:05 An unique tract.

19:35:06 An infill parcel.

19:35:09 One of few remaining undeveloped parcels on MacDill

19:35:11 Avenue corridor and we are trying something unique that

19:35:14 is a vertical integrated mixed use building which we

19:35:17 think is sort of lacking in this part of Tampa.

19:35:21 This is a vacant lot that has been maintained so-so

19:35:22 over the years.

19:35:24 We have had several meetings with the property owner

19:35:25 associations.

19:35:27 And tried to work out agreements with them.

19:35:30 You will hear from those representatives this evening

19:35:35 and Mr. Mark Kirsh, President of Bayshore Condominum

19:35:38 Association to the north, and I believe several other

19:35:39 board members are here also.

19:35:42 They were gracious enough to give us an audience last

19:35:43 week and had several meetings.

19:35:46 As recent as 45 minutes ago offered some additional

19:35:49 restrictions that we will agree to tonight into the

19:35:51 record regarding screening on the north side of this

19:35:55 property.

19:36:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: One thing before you belabor it too

19:36:02 long.

19:36:05 Is there opposition?

19:36:07 >> I don't think we have opposition.

19:36:10 Let me state briefly for the record we stand before you

19:36:12 with all recommendations of approval, planning

19:36:13 consistency.

19:36:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Reserve for rebuttal.

19:36:18 >> Happy to reserve for rebuttal.

19:36:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have one other question, Mr.

19:36:20 Chairman.

19:36:23 Are you -- we got a letter from an adjacent property

19:36:24 owner hand two concerns.

19:36:29 Was about -- was about a wall.

19:36:30 She lived on the north side and would rather a concrete

19:36:32 block wall.

19:36:33 >> Correct.

19:36:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was hoping you were going to say

19:36:37 that was one of the accommodations you were going to

19:36:38 make and you can then a in a second.

19:36:42 The other one that she mentioned -- this is all part of

19:36:44 the record and I hope you have a copy of it.

19:36:46 >> I have not received a copy.

19:36:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, we can give you a copy.

19:36:50 The other thing she said she was concerned about

19:36:51 stormwater.

19:36:54 And I am just curious.

19:36:56 You are paving over a lot of this parcel, but it is

19:36:58 infill.

19:37:01 So that's -- that's -- you know that is what happens on

19:37:03 our urban infill.

19:37:07 On occasion when you don't have a lot of land available

19:37:08 for drainage and stuff.

19:37:10 Are you vaulting -- are you vaulting some of your

19:37:12 stormwater.

19:37:14 >> I will have my engineer address that.

19:37:16 Let me address the first issue the wall construction

19:37:18 which is your first point.

19:37:22 We've greed with bayshore trade to construct a of-foot

19:37:25 concrete wall a long the north boundary with the

19:37:27 exception of the Eastern 20 feet where we have

19:37:33 potential conflict with a 20-inch oak mystery and a

19:37:40 stand-over with PVC vinyl fencing which is opaque.

19:37:41 We have agreed with that and working out additional

19:37:46 information with Mr. Hirsh with Bayshore Trace.

19:37:50 I will have Chris McNeil speak to that directly.

19:37:53 >> Good evening --

19:37:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The abbreviated version.

19:38:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name for the record.

19:38:02 >> Chris McNeil.

19:38:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

19:38:07 >> I was sworn in, the existing site is pervious as

19:38:09 Michael mentioned.

19:38:15 It was -- demolished from a previous developed site in

19:38:18 anticipation of building the previous approved PD plan.

19:38:20 And then, of course, with the economy and everything

19:38:22 the way it turned, that site wasn't -- wasn't

19:38:23 developed.

19:38:26 So there is -- there is surveyed conditions.

19:38:29 We have a survey that was taken before that site was

19:38:30 done.

19:38:33 Actually when that -- when that PD came through.

19:38:37 So that impervious area based on -- toward that

19:38:40 impervious area so overall increase of what we are

19:38:44 propose something around 1800 square feet.

19:38:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So you are not going to improve the

19:38:47 drainage condition.

19:38:51 You are just going to run with the grandfathered in

19:38:51 condition.

19:38:53 That is the point?

19:38:55 >> Well, there would be some improvements because right

19:38:57 now there are some of the water that is contributing to

19:39:01 the Bayshore Trace Condominum that we will be collect

19:39:04 and retaining off of them because they have an issue on

19:39:06 that side.

19:39:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.

19:39:10 >> 300 square feet that drains to them currently that

19:39:12 would be collected.

19:39:17 And piped to an overflow construction at the

19:39:18 right-of-way line.

19:39:21 That overflow discharges to the west and to the South

19:39:24 away from the concerned letter.

19:39:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.

19:39:33 Do we have anyone from stormwater here tonight?

19:39:36 How does stormwater feel about all of this?

19:39:39 >> Brent Morris, stormwater department, City of Tampa.

19:39:42 It is paved setback to setback.

19:39:45 It is -- the site has been cleared.

19:39:51 And our opinion is essentially new development and it's

19:39:54 council's wish, then I guess it goes away, but

19:39:57 stormwater would like to see half-inch retention

19:40:03 on-site before discharge.

19:40:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And the applicant is looking not to

19:40:09 -- to do any?

19:40:12 >> It is my understanding.

19:40:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Not to do the half inch.

19:40:15 >> Mr. Dingfelder, let me clarify.

19:40:18 The reason we have a problem with the additional

19:40:23 language is we think the language and in the tech

19:40:25 manual where we simply agree to meet all City of Tampa

19:40:28 stormwater management requirements is sufficient.

19:40:32 The problem we run into is three different staff

19:40:35 members are having three different interpretations and

19:40:38 what constitutes the half inch because impervious

19:40:43 surface on that site and get credit for that impervious

19:40:47 service and that interpretation was much different than

19:40:48 the mandatory half inch.

19:40:52 So we don't want to do any less, but we don't want to

19:40:54 do any more.

19:40:57 Whatever the City of Tampa regs are by your department,

19:41:01 your staff, your permitting engineer and S.W.F.W.M.D,

19:41:03 we want to defer to that interpretation.

19:41:07 I am reluctant to add something voluntarily when I

19:41:10 think meeting City of Tampa regs are what we are

19:41:11 legally required to do.

19:41:14 We certainly don't want to have anything less

19:41:16 stringent, but what the gentleman is seek something not

19:41:18 the interpretation of the construction service center

19:41:23 permitting engineer that we have met with in the last

19:41:25 two weeks.

19:41:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, that's confusing.

19:41:27 [Laughter]

19:41:32 >> Exactly.

19:41:36 >> At this point in the environmental review process,

19:41:39 unless there is some compelling reason, only thing we

19:41:42 can make them do is meet standard, and I think that it

19:41:45 is appropriate for that standard to be determined as

19:41:48 they come in to develop, because while they have a PD

19:41:51 that they are showing, you know, there is always things

19:41:53 to tweak and change during the development process so

19:41:57 long as it doesn't go outside the envelope can occur

19:41:59 and that is the typical note that really needs to be

19:42:00 placed on these zonings.

19:42:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But they are asking for a reduction

19:42:04 in buffer.

19:42:08 And typically when -- when you have buffer, you have

19:42:11 pervious area.

19:42:14 And so it is all sort of tied together.

19:42:16 >> Oh, I mean -- but what I was saying though is that

19:42:21 there is a technical -- stormwater technical manual

19:42:23 standard indicating they will meet at the time of

19:42:23 permitting.

19:42:26 I guess -- I wasn't aware there was this issue that

19:42:29 stormwater wanted something additional.

19:42:32 So -- you know, if it becomes an issue that we feel

19:42:37 that we should say at this level they should meet a

19:42:39 higher standard, then I think I am going to need to

19:42:42 analyze whether that is appropriate given this request.

19:42:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The only thing I would say, Mr.

19:42:47 Hornier, if you want to come up.

19:42:50 It sounds as though there is an issue in this area.

19:42:51 Okay.

19:42:54 You mentioned it yourself, something about a problem on

19:42:57 the adjacent property and there is extra water in that

19:42:58 area.

19:43:01 So my only point is, if you all are coming in asking

19:43:04 for a waiver of your -- of your buffer, which appears

19:43:12 to be -- to be a waiver number 2, waiver number 3,

19:43:15 waiver number 2 and 3 is a waiver of your buffer area.

19:43:18 Just seems like there might be a little give and take.

19:43:20 >> I understand, Mr. Dingfelder.

19:43:22 Let me respond this way.

19:43:27 We are simply seeking to replicate the existing buffer

19:43:31 and setback that was approved by this council in 2004.

19:43:35 On that plan that was approved, it also said shall meet

19:43:38 all City of Tampa stormwater regs.

19:43:41 Gave you a chart comparison in the backup package that

19:43:44 I handed you and you will see that our buffer, although

19:43:48 not a whole lot more is equal to or exceeding those

19:43:48 standards.

19:43:49 There is no question.

19:43:53 If we had to meet all of those standards for the buffer

19:43:56 and it will T would be rendered undevelopable.

19:44:00 So we went to that approved PD, added a little more

19:44:00 green space.

19:44:05 We actually have double the greenspace that the City of

19:44:07 Tampa requires and we will collect all of the

19:44:10 stormwater runoff on-site and meet all of your

19:44:12 stormwater requirements and S.W.F.W.M.D. Requirements.

19:44:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Maybe between first and second

19:44:17 reading, stormwater can sort this out and give us

19:44:18 better clarity on it.

19:44:19 Thank you.

19:44:21 >> Thank you.

19:44:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman, do you have a question?

19:44:31 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: You will not have medical,

19:44:32 professional.

19:44:38 >> No medical.

19:44:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?

19:44:42 Anyone from the public who wants to speak, make a

19:44:50 comment?

19:44:51 >> Thank you.

19:44:54 I am an owner and President of the association of

19:44:55 Bayshore Trace.

19:45:01 And this has been quite an eye-opening experience.

19:45:06 We have prevailed upon the petitioner to build a

19:45:12 six-foot wall to be the barrier for our property, but

19:45:14 due to the conversation that just took place, I am very

19:45:15 concerned about the runoff.

19:45:22 We have a very serious issue on our -- it would be our

19:45:25 southwest corner.

19:45:31 A good point was brought up, and that is the far rear

19:45:37 of their property -- backs up -- backs up to our

19:45:43 parking lot, which also runs in to the area that causes

19:45:49 some flooding in our bayshore trace.

19:45:55 We have 127 residences and they have been very kind to

19:45:56 build a barrier.

19:45:59 But we want to make sure that the stormwater is run off

19:46:02 properly so we don't continue to have this issue.

19:46:04 It has been very expensive.

19:46:07 We have had some sump pump situation.

19:46:15 And we want this to work for both parties involved.

19:46:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Are you finished.

19:46:20 >> I thought you had a question.

19:46:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I need you to finish though.

19:46:23 >> That's fine.

19:46:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.

19:46:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

19:46:28 Does the water run from your property South or run from

19:46:30 their property north?

19:46:32 >> At this point, it is a lot.

19:46:35 So it really doesn't run either way.

19:46:39 We have our issue with our parking.

19:46:42 With our pull and drive, which is directly adjacent to

19:46:43 this property.

19:46:46 My fear is that if we don't have the stormwater running

19:46:53 correctly, then it will exacerbate our water into some

19:46:53 of our units.

19:47:01 And this is where -- where our problem lies.

19:47:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Legal -- is legal here?

19:47:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On the outside negotiating.

19:47:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I am --

19:47:20 >> Legal department.

19:47:23 I am unaware of the standards that should be.

19:47:25 Typically -- I assume we are back on that stormwater

19:47:26 issue.

19:47:28 Typically what is placed on a site plan is just an

19:47:31 obligation you meet whatever is within the technical

19:47:32 standard.

19:47:35 If there has been a situation where there has been a

19:47:37 heightened need for something, we typically talked

19:47:41 about it ahead of time and I understand legally how to

19:47:41 require that.

19:47:44 I did not have this information for this meeting.

19:47:46 I am at somewhat of a disadvantage to understand

19:47:49 legally why there needs to be a heightened standard or

19:47:51 why there needs to be a standard that is more

19:47:54 delineated at this point and that isn't our typical

19:47:56 process.

19:48:00 So I am not really in a position to advise what City

19:48:03 Council can and cannot require at this time.

19:48:05 If the City Council believes there is evidence in the

19:48:07 report to have a heightened standard at this time, I

19:48:11 will need a continuance to deal with that issue and

19:48:14 need to hear from the petitioner as to had how they

19:48:17 feel to that issue but sort of at a disadvantage and

19:48:18 can't advise at this time.

19:48:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman.

19:48:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.

19:48:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If the petitioner wasn't asking for

19:48:25 a setback waiver, I would think there wouldn't be

19:48:29 anything to discuss and they are asking for a setback

19:48:31 waiver and I think additional time would be helpful for

19:48:34 you and our staff and the petitioner and the folks next

19:48:36 door to sort of look at this issue and come back,

19:48:40 perhaps, with a series of protections for the neighbors

19:48:45 to the north.

19:48:49 >>JULIA COLE: Julia Cole.

19:48:51 I think we need to hear from the petitioner on that

19:48:52 issue.

19:48:54 We need to keep in mind what you have is a PD to a PD

19:48:57 and we have -- what I understand was in the previous PD

19:48:59 is that they would just meet standards.

19:49:04 So we need to find -- we need to analyze it, not

19:49:07 totally from a vacant piece of property, but what was

19:49:09 approved previously to now.

19:49:12 And I need to understand and this is really just more

19:49:15 me saying it out loud so staff understand what is my

19:49:16 issue is.

19:49:19 I need to understand what the differences are between

19:49:23 the previous PD and this PD that would necessitate some

19:49:26 additional language as it relates to stormwater on this

19:49:27 particular petition.

19:49:29 Thank you.

19:49:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner.

19:49:36 >> Sorry, anybody else who wants to ask -- for

19:49:38 rebuttal.

19:49:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Our petitioner?

19:49:44 >> Mr. Chairman, we again state for the record we are

19:49:48 handling and receiving 100% of all runoff generated

19:49:52 this building and on pervious surface, the entire

19:49:55 building is guttered and we will meet all City of Tampa

19:49:58 regulations on stormwater requirements, permitting and

19:50:05 S.W.F.W.M.D. Requirements otherwise we can't move dirt.

19:50:07 We are under a contract deadline.

19:50:08 We have issues.

19:50:09 Meetings with the HOA.

19:50:11 We are not asking for any relief.

19:50:14 We are not asking for less setback.

19:50:16 We are a buffer that was already approved.

19:50:20 If this was regular zoned property RM-24 and ask to cut

19:50:23 all the standards in half, I understand.

19:50:26 A PD approved on this site has fewer or less standards

19:50:29 for the degree of the buffer, the amount of the buffer,

19:50:31 the amount of the setback for the building.

19:50:33 We don't want to ask for any less stringent

19:50:36 requirements on stormwater.

19:50:40 We agree to meet every provision in your own stormwater

19:50:44 regs and I would suggest that absent any other

19:50:47 empirical study or absent a plan that shows we are

19:50:52 exceeding those buffer widths or asking relief for

19:50:55 those buffer widths and building setbacks, let the

19:50:56 permit process work.

19:50:58 We have no problem working with the condominum

19:50:59 association.

19:51:04 That structure was built in 1984 and doesn't meet the

19:51:04 requirements.

19:51:07 We have to meet very stringent requirements.

19:51:09 Thank you.

19:51:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions by council?

19:51:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can I -- can we just hear from the

19:51:14 city.

19:51:17 The gentleman in the plaid shirt from the city

19:51:18 stormwater.

19:51:20 >> Yes, ma'am, Brent Morris.

19:51:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Are you satisfied with what the

19:51:24 petitioner just said?

19:51:28 >> That they will control essentially is what they are

19:51:31 saying all stormwater coming off of their parcel which

19:51:37 means they will have an escape to the road or a

19:51:40 drainage structure that is in the area.

19:51:43 So, yes, they are -- what they are saying -- what they

19:51:45 are telling as that they are going to handle all of

19:51:50 their stormwater discharge to the city right-of-way.

19:51:50 However --

19:51:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I thought they had to contain it on

19:51:53 their property.

19:51:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's what he said.

19:51:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You are saying it could go out into

19:51:58 the road.

19:52:02 >> Yeah, ultimately can go out into the road and to a

19:52:03 stormwater pipe.

19:52:06 Either way it goes into the city's right-of-way.

19:52:09 That's all that they are saying they will do.

19:52:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What would you like?

19:52:12 What would you like?

19:52:13 >> Treatment over a half inch.

19:52:18 As you know the City of Tampa has woefully inadequate

19:52:19 stormwater infrastructure.

19:52:24 And every time we take a parcel that had 1800 square

19:52:28 feet on it and pave it setback to setback and get a

19:52:30 variance to have less setback than is normally

19:52:35 required, the situation just exacerbates.

19:52:38 So stormwater is asking that they retain a half inch

19:52:38 over the site.

19:52:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is that the usual --

19:52:44 >> That -- when we see a site that has been cleared and

19:52:49 they come in for a variance, we request that they

19:52:53 maintain a half-inch treatment over their site.

19:53:00 Or the 5, 25-year scenario that didn't apply to this

19:53:03 particular rezoning.

19:53:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Have our standards increased as we

19:53:10 recognized that we have a problem?

19:53:13 >> Currently working on it, ma'am.

19:53:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, as I understand it, a difference

19:53:19 of interpretation between your city staff.

19:53:20 That's what it is.

19:53:21 I understand that.

19:53:24 A difference of interpretation of the requirement;

19:53:28 however, the petitioner has said that he will meet all

19:53:31 of the requirement of the city's requirements on this

19:53:33 particular site.

19:53:37 Now we -- you got one department -- I guess a good way

19:53:39 -- one department saying you need this.

19:53:41 And another one saying no, you don't.

19:53:44 So there is a discrepancy.

19:53:47 Yes.

19:53:50 >>MARY MULHERN: I think it sounds like the stormwater

19:53:54 experts request is the most stringent.

19:53:57 If the petitioner would agree to that --

19:53:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But you can't do that because she says

19:54:00 PD to PD.

19:54:01 That is the problem there.

19:54:03 You got -- you got a legal issue here that you cannot

19:54:07 ask the petitioner to do something that your PD is

19:54:07 already --

19:54:12 >>JULIA COLE: I am not in a position to advise council

19:54:14 that they have a legal authority to comply to the

19:54:15 request of the stormwater department.

19:54:19 I was not aware of that ahead of time or I would have

19:54:20 analyzed this ahead of time.

19:54:22 You have the questioner that has indicated that they

19:54:24 are willing to meet the standard and that is on their

19:54:28 site plan today and that they would prefer this not --

19:54:29 to prefer this to go forward.

19:54:34 My recommendation -- my recommendation then is not

19:54:37 withstanding the stormwater issue and I wouldn't use

19:54:40 that as a basis to approve or deny, if you want to go

19:54:43 ahead and approve this on first reading, I would be

19:54:46 able to come back at second reading which is a full

19:54:48 complete public hearing to advise you legally on that

19:54:50 issue at second reading.

19:54:52 And at that point in time, you would be able to take

19:54:54 that information into consideration.

19:54:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close.

19:54:57 >> Move to close.

19:54:58 >> Second.

19:55:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner, we gave you rebuttal

19:55:02 already, right?

19:55:02 >> Yes, sir.

19:55:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

19:55:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I move approval.

19:55:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor of the Motion close.

19:55:10 All in favor, say Aye.

19:55:11 Opposed.

19:55:11 Okay.

19:55:18 Now you want to read -- the ordinance?

19:55:20 Yes.

19:55:23 >> I did not have a revision sheet for this and need to

19:55:26 read into the record the changes that need to be made

19:55:27 during first and second reading.

19:55:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, okay.

19:55:35 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Ordinance rezoning property 3324

19:55:38 South MacDill Avenue in the City of Tampa, Florida.

19:55:41 And more particularly described in section one from

19:55:44 zoning district classification PD, planned development,

19:55:48 residential, multifamily to PD planned development

19:55:51 business professional office residential single family,

19:55:55 semi detached, providing an effective date.

19:55:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You want to read --

19:55:58 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes, sir.

19:56:01 In between first and second reading with the changes

19:56:05 delineate 6-foot masonry wall on the north property

19:56:08 line up until the protective radius of the tree at

19:56:13 which time it may need to be a foundation or PVC span

19:56:14 or fencing.

19:56:17 They can add an associated note that the fence at that

19:56:20 point would be reviewed by parks and recreation,

19:56:21 natural resources.

19:56:24 Also, to add a parking waiver.

19:56:25 Waiver number 6.

19:56:29 27-242 to reduce the required parking from 14 spaces to

19:56:32 13 spaces.

19:56:36 And then to make sure that the green space calculation

19:56:41 is clearly depicted in the data table.

19:56:41 I believe that's all.

19:56:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

19:56:43 So moved and seconded.

19:56:46 Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.

19:56:48 All in favor, say Aye.

19:56:49 Opposed?

19:56:50 Okay.

19:56:54 And, again, the last part she just raised is part of

19:56:54 the motion.

19:56:55 Do you understand.

19:56:56 Okay.

19:57:02 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent

19:57:02 of vote.

19:57:04 Second reading December 3 at 9:30.

19:57:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thanks.

19:57:08 That concludes all of our zoning issues tonight.

19:57:11 We have two items that we need to pick up.

19:57:12 We have two items.

19:57:15 One is the resolution.

19:57:21 Item 15 on the --

19:57:24 >> Mr. Chairman before do you that just by formal

19:57:27 motion accept the withdrawal of item 21.

19:57:29 >> So moved.

19:57:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

19:57:31 All in favor, say Aye.

19:57:34 Opposed?

19:57:34 Okay.

19:57:36 The resolution, Mr. Shelby.

19:57:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, council.

19:57:41 I have provided in front of you a corrected copy that

19:57:45 corrected a -- a character turn that was

19:57:48 inappropriately placed and date of adoption being

19:57:50 tonight for council's consideration.

19:57:54 And action if you wish.

19:57:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move the resolution.

19:57:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

19:57:59 He moved it.

19:58:01 I will second it.

19:58:02 I am thrilled to death that we are doing it.

19:58:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

19:58:06 All in favor signify by saying aye.

19:58:08 Opposed.

19:58:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Maybe we will get a press person

19:58:11 notice.

19:58:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The other item is item 15, the legal

19:58:16 department to appear to discuss the draft

19:58:20 Transportation technical Manuel.

19:58:24 >>JULIA COLE: Julia Cole, the legal department.

19:58:26 The proposed technical manual that I previously

19:58:32 provided as well as amendments to chapter 22 would be

19:58:34 necessary to fully implement this new and revised

19:58:38 technical manual.

19:58:40 I kind of started talking about this previously and I

19:58:42 don't know if there are any additional questions, and

19:58:46 if not, I am just requesting that you go ahead and

19:58:48 schedule first reading for adoption of the technical

19:58:52 manual and associated chapter 27 amendments for -- I

19:58:56 think I asked for December 10 at 5:30.

19:58:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, Councilwoman Mulhern.

19:59:00 >>MARY MULHERN: You are asking us to schedule

19:59:01 adoption?

19:59:02 >>JULIA COLE: Yes.

19:59:07 >>MARY MULHERN: I did have one concern and that is the

19:59:11 section on Brick Street.

19:59:13 And I think I would just like to work with you on that,

19:59:15 if I could.

19:59:17 >>JULIA COLE: And maybe -- I don't know if this will

19:59:20 affect your -- your questions, but so that council is

19:59:22 aware.

19:59:26 When that Bridge Street ordinance was originally

19:59:29 adopted, it was for some reason not adopted in your

19:59:30 code of ordinances.

19:59:33 It was actually adopted in the technical manual.

19:59:36 So in essence all I have done with that language except

19:59:39 for some tweaks because it didn't read very well.

19:59:43 I just sort of had it reading a little bit better.

19:59:46 Moving it into chapter 27.

19:59:49 Issues with the -- with the actual language I just

19:59:51 wanted you to be aware that really the actual language

19:59:53 is something that has been in effect for some time.

19:59:57 That is not to say this isn't a good opportunity to

20:00:00 reanalyze or discuss it but I wanted you to be aware

20:00:03 procedurally that I was simply removing that from the

20:00:07 technical manual because the whole flow of the

20:00:10 technical manual could Scott you all can meet.

20:00:12 >>MARY MULHERN: As long as it is in there.

20:00:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

20:00:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You met with me and we discussed

20:00:17 it.

20:00:20 This will streamline things and allow us to have better

20:00:22 control over Transportation.

20:00:23 >>JULIA COLE: It is a good thing.

20:00:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to set this December 10 at

20:00:27 what time.

20:00:28 >>JULIA COLE: 5:30.

20:00:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

20:00:33 All in favor signify by saying aye.

20:00:34 Opposed?

20:00:35 New business item.

20:00:37 Councilman Dingfelder.

20:00:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

20:00:43 In the front of the thing and I would like to ask

20:00:46 council to waive its rules and give him an opportunity

20:00:49 to speak for a minute on behalf of his human rights

20:00:53 council as is related to this incident with the Greek

20:00:56 -- the Greek orthodox --

20:00:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Priest.

20:00:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: -- priest.

20:01:02 If it is council's pleasure I would ask him to speak to

20:01:03 us.

20:01:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Give him a minute.

20:01:06 Okay, yes.

20:01:10 >> Thank you for that, Councilman Dingfelder and dear

20:01:12 councilmen, I am very disturbed.

20:01:15 I am the President of the Human Rights Council, a

20:01:17 35-year-old organization here in Tampa.

20:01:20 Started in the City of Tampa.

20:01:23 And earlier this week, we learned about this what we

20:01:28 consider to be a hate crime incident on a guest from

20:01:31 Greece who was visiting -- visiting the area at a local

20:01:31 church.

20:01:34 When he got lost in downtown Tampa, asked for direction

20:01:37 from another person who lives in Tampa, he was met with

20:01:38 violence.

20:01:43 The person that attacked him, you know, called him an

20:01:47 Arab terrorist and struck him with a tire iron on the

20:01:51 head four times and he ended up in the hospital.

20:01:52 We were disturbed.

20:01:54 And the details are in the newspaper.

20:01:57 But what is disturbing to us as a council, is a lack of

20:02:01 response from the leadership in our area, from the

20:02:04 mayor, from the elected officials to speak out against

20:02:10 this type of hatred and hate and bias motivated action.

20:02:12 A lot of people are saying let's wait and see.

20:02:15 Had this been a white person who attacked a black

20:02:19 person and called him the n word people would come out

20:02:21 saying this is wrong.

20:02:22 We shouldn't have them in this community.

20:02:25 Because we are not used to this type of discrimination

20:02:28 because our community is changing, then our community

20:02:30 leaders have been reluctant to respond in the way that

20:02:32 they should.

20:02:34 It shouldn't matter the background of the suspect.

20:02:38 If he is a U.S. marine reservist or if he is someone

20:02:41 who is less than.

20:02:43 It seems to us that because of his background, some

20:02:47 people are -- are being timid in coming out and --

20:02:48 against the actions that he did.

20:02:51 But regardless of anybody's background, what happened

20:02:54 in downtown Tampa last Monday is something that brings

20:02:57 shame on the city and our community, especially as we

20:02:59 rely on tourism.

20:03:02 This is not how we want to be known as treating our

20:03:03 guests.

20:03:05 We have urged the Tampa police department, as well as

20:03:09 the state attorney's office and the FBI to investigate

20:03:14 this as a hate crime, just because a priest was -- an

20:03:18 Arab or Muslim does not mean that hate was not the

20:03:18 motivation.

20:03:21 The fact that the suspect perceived the victim to be of

20:03:25 an Arab background that enough is the motivation in our

20:03:27 view that it constitutes a hate crime.

20:03:30 I would urge to you do whatever you can in your

20:03:33 capacity, whether it be to pass a resolution or to urge

20:03:37 the -- the mayor or the police or the authorities who

20:03:39 take this matter seriously and investigate this as a

20:03:40 hate crime.

20:03:42 Not just some random act of violence.

20:03:46 If you listen to the 911 call and listen to what the

20:03:48 police has said, this person has changed their story

20:03:50 several times and said -- and claimed that the priest

20:03:54 who only speaks Greek said an Arabic phrase and said,

20:03:57 well, that's what they say before they blow you up.

20:04:00 So obviously that could not have happened because the

20:04:01 priest, someone not Muslim.

20:04:03 He is Christian.

20:04:07 Action two he doesn't speak any Arabic and very little

20:04:07 English.

20:04:11 So this council and the leadership in Tampa has to be

20:04:13 the voice of the minorities, and the voice that don't

20:04:14 have the power.

20:04:18 Even if the priest chooses to turn the other cheek, it

20:04:20 is our responsibility as leaders, especially you as

20:04:23 elected officials, to speak out against that.

20:04:24 So I urge you to do that.

20:04:26 Thank you very much.

20:04:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

20:04:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for coming down.

20:04:31 I think what is most appropriate.

20:04:34 What we can take action as a council, but there is a

20:04:37 group called "community Tampa bay" that I know you are

20:04:40 familiar with that fights prejudice and discrimination

20:04:43 and I suggested they create sort of a S.W.A.T. team of

20:04:45 community leaders so when something like this happens

20:04:48 that they call a press conference, call people from a

20:04:51 variety of background on both sides of the bay and say

20:04:53 this is not our community.

20:04:55 This doesn't reflect the values we hold.

20:04:58 We do not accept this kind of action.

20:05:00 I very much appreciate you coming down, and I think

20:05:05 what we can do is ask the administration to publicly,

20:05:09 you know, say that this doesn't reflect the kind of

20:05:12 community we have and we are embarrassed and we are --

20:05:16 you know, not going -- not going to tolerate that.

20:05:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.

20:05:20 >>MARY MULHERN: I would be comfortable requesting --

20:05:24 all we can do is make requests of the administration.

20:05:30 Them to investigate this as a hate crime, but it is --

20:05:34 we are not here to sit in judgment, we have to allow

20:05:35 the law to take its course.

20:05:41 So I think that is all -- all we can do is ask the --

20:05:46 the dish guess the -- the police department -- you are

20:05:49 suggesting we ask the FBI -- I don't know who the right

20:05:52 authority is that you suggest that we ask.

20:05:56 >> We've -- we've already made those requests, and, of

20:05:57 course, it is a criminal matter.

20:06:00 It should take its course, but we are looking from

20:06:03 elected officials to speak out and take a position.

20:06:07 And say that -- and not necessarily about this incident

20:06:10 and say who is at fault, but say, look, hate crimes are

20:06:12 an issue, especially in the recent incident that

20:06:13 happened in Fort Hood.

20:06:16 There shouldn't be any backlash against any community

20:06:19 whether they are perceived to be Arab or not.

20:06:21 We want to have a tolerant society.

20:06:24 That is the kind of leadership that we are looking for.

20:06:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.

20:06:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That is exactly what my motion

20:06:30 would be.

20:06:32 I am not looking for the administration to do anything.

20:06:35 This body, okay, needs to -- needs to denounce publicly

20:06:41 denounce hate crimes and specifically this recent

20:06:46 incident which is -- you know, by all indications seems

20:06:50 to, you know, be one.

20:06:53 And -- and, you know, the jury will decide at some

20:06:56 point, and that's all fine and good and we are not

20:06:59 trying to sidestep that, but in the meantime, you know,

20:07:03 we have laws on the books, plenty of laws on the books

20:07:07 against hate crimes, and they need to be enforced.

20:07:09 And let's -- as council we should take a stand right

20:07:11 now tonight.

20:07:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That was the motion.

20:07:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In the form of a resolution.

20:07:19 Not a written resolution but just a verbal resolution

20:07:21 denouncing this recent act.

20:07:23 And denouncing all hate crimes in this community.

20:07:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

20:07:27 Councilwoman.

20:07:29 >>MARY MULHERN: I can't support that motion.

20:07:31 I can support denouncing hate crimes, but this is --

20:07:36 this is a crime that needs to be prosecuted and tried.

20:07:38 And that is what our courts are for.

20:07:42 And I don't -- I don't feel like we can make a

20:07:45 pronouncement on a crime that is being investigated

20:07:48 still.

20:07:49 I think it is a bad precedent.

20:07:51 And I can't support that, but I will support denouncing

20:08:00 hate crimes and that's all I can support.

20:08:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There isn't any excuse to take a

20:08:06 tire iron among anybody --

20:08:08 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't think that is our job here to

20:08:08 --

20:08:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I -- thank you.

20:08:13 I don't -- I don't think there is any excuse for

20:08:16 anybody to take a tire iron against anybody, a stranger

20:08:20 in this company -- country who is dressed in robes and

20:08:22 has the appearance of being, you know, of being a

20:08:23 foreigner, okay.

20:08:27 Especially in this, you know, really hot environment of

20:08:29 the post Fort Hood thing.

20:08:33 I think, you know, walks like a duck and quacks like a

20:08:33 duck.

20:08:37 >>MARY MULHERN: Neither do I and I can't imagine that

20:08:40 anyone would suspect that I or anyone on this council

20:08:46 would think hate -- taking a tire iron to someone is --

20:08:48 is okay or hate crimes.

20:08:52 But I think -- I don't -- I just don't think that is

20:08:54 our place to sit in judgment.

20:08:57 That is what the law is for.

20:09:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I think -- I think that the

20:09:01 courts will take its course.

20:09:04 We have no jurisdiction over the courts.

20:09:05 They will take their course.

20:09:08 What is being asked for us as elected officials in city

20:09:11 government, that we take a position or make a statement

20:09:14 to say that we don't condone that kind of action an

20:09:17 behavior, in particular to tourists who are coming to

20:09:18 our community.

20:09:20 That's what I am hearing the motion is saying.

20:09:20 Okay.

20:09:22 Yes.

20:09:25 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I can support it

20:09:26 and not support it.

20:09:27 I don't think it is right what happened.

20:09:30 I don't know whether it is our position to make a

20:09:32 statement like that, but I am sure it is going to be

20:09:37 properly investigated, whether he was a tourist or a

20:09:38 resident.

20:09:39 It doesn't really make any difference.

20:09:43 But that marine -- and being a former marine, he didn't

20:09:46 have the right to take a tire iron.

20:09:47 He is a coward.

20:09:47 That's what he is.

20:09:54 He needed a tire iron to hit this guy.

20:09:55 It is not right.

20:09:58 I am sure the FBI and whoever will be involved in this

20:09:59 will prosecute properly.

20:10:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There is a motion on the floor and

20:10:05 seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

20:10:08 All in favor signify by saying aye.

20:10:08 Opposed?

20:10:12 Okay.

20:10:13 >> Move to receive and file.

20:10:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: One last thing we set today the

20:10:18 workshop for Westshore alliance.

20:10:23 So I want to set that for March -- workshop for March.

20:10:26 We have one item already on the agenda at 9:00.

20:10:30 So we can bring that right after that which should been

20:10:33 9:30.

20:10:34 >> So moved.

20:10:34 >> Second.

20:10:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You need to carry the motion.

20:10:38 I made the motion, you need --

20:10:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: All those in favor say aye.

20:10:48 opposed nay.

20:10:49 Passed unanimously.

20:10:51 >> Move to adjourn.

20:10:56 >>THE CLERK: The date in March for workshop was --

20:10:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Work.

20:11:01 >> March workshop.

20:11:04 >> 25th of March and requested at 9:30 A.M.

20:11:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Because we have a 9:00 already.

20:11:10 We stand adjourned.

20:11:11 Thank you.