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Tampa City Council
Thursday, November 19, 2009
9:00 a.m. session


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0 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to

09:02:36 order.

09:02:38 At this time the chair will yield to the honorable Mary

09:02:40 Mulhern.

09:02:41 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

09:02:44 It's my honor to introduce Reverend Phyllis Hunt, the

09:02:47 senior pastor of the Metropolitan Community Church of

09:02:50 Tampa. She will be giving our invocation this morning.

09:02:54 Please stand for that and remain standing for the

09:02:56 pledge of allegiance.

09:02:57 >>> Spirit of the living God, we give you thanks and

09:03:03 praise for the serious ways in which you touch and

09:03:07 bless our lives.

09:03:08 We ask this morning that you be in this place, in our

09:03:15 words, in the decisions that this council will make

09:03:18 that will impact our city and the health and well-being

09:03:23 of not only those who will be touched by these

09:03:26 decisions today, but the generations yet to come.

09:03:30 We thank you that we have the opportunity to live in

09:03:33 such a free nation.

09:03:36 We pray, O God, for those who offer themselves in

09:03:42 service to make our nation free.

09:03:47 Bless us as each of us continues to offer the very best

09:03:50 of who we are, to make a difference in the world we

09:03:54 touch, in the city we live in, and the neighborhoods

09:03:58 where we can make a difference.

09:04:02 May your peace, your guidance, your presence, be among

09:04:08 us today and always.

09:04:10 In all that is sacred and holy, we offer this and so

09:04:14 much more.

09:04:17 Amen.

09:04:17 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]

09:04:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll have roll call.




09:04:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.

09:04:45 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.

09:04:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.

09:04:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.

09:04:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.

09:04:50 First on our agenda we will have a review of the agenda

09:04:53 and deal with the addendum.

09:04:55 >> Yes, thank you.

09:04:57 Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of City Council.

09:04:59 Before you have the addendum today's agenda.

09:05:02 We have several new business items that will be taken

09:05:05 up at the end of the meeting.

09:05:06 I ask you to take a look at those.

09:05:08 With regard to continuance or removal of items, council

09:05:12 member Saul-Sena is absent today, and the chair will

09:05:17 reference that.

09:05:18 >> Yes, I don't have a copy of that letter.

09:05:22 I understand the clerk did receive a copy.

09:05:24 Is that right?

09:05:25 I don't have one here but I do know that she is, I

09:05:28 think, out of the country.

09:05:30 Thank you.




09:05:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, there is a request for her

09:05:37 item that she placed on the agenda for today's

09:05:39 discussion, item 46.

09:05:40 There's a request that that be continued to December

09:05:42 3rd, 2009 due to her absence.

09:05:45 Also, item 49 on your agenda, which is a public

09:05:50 hearing, a second reading, which is supposed to begin

09:05:56 after 9:30, there's a request that that item be removed

09:05:59 from the agenda as the petitioner has withdrawn that

09:06:02 petition.

09:06:02 That was placed on the agenda for a full council vote,

09:06:05 which was brought back for a third time and again is

09:06:12 asking to object asked to be removed.

09:06:13 Finally you have two appeal hearings this afternoon,

09:06:17 numbers 57 and 58.

09:06:19 Those cannot be heard, and those have not had their

09:06:25 records perfected by the appellant.

09:06:28 So that is the address of 302 east Jean Street, and

09:06:35 2410 east 9th Avenue.

09:06:37 Again for those people who might be planning on

09:06:40 attending, those will not be heard.

09:06:42 Council, I am not aware of any other changes to the




09:06:45 agenda.

09:06:46 I would, however, like to point out, council, that on

09:06:52 display in the City Council chambers today, there is a

09:06:54 quilt patch that has been designed by a local Tampa

09:06:59 artist and stitched by a city employee from the solid

09:07:03 waste department, Delilah Libby, administrative chief

09:07:08 from the solid waste, stitched that patch.

09:07:11 The city is one with of several cities that

09:07:13 participated in the all American city award this past

09:07:16 June as a participant to the neighborhood and the City

09:07:19 of Tampa created this quilt patch depicting the

09:07:22 Gasparilla ship and the Tampa skyline.

09:07:25 And it is on display this week in City Council

09:07:28 chambers.

09:07:30 The quilt is transferring traveling the country in

09:07:34 every town that sponsored the American city awards.

09:07:38 I am not aware of any other deletions, additions or

09:07:41 substitutions.

09:07:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other item that may be pulled from

09:07:44 the agenda, changes?

09:07:45 Okay, motion?

09:07:46 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.




09:07:49 >> Second.

09:07:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Moved by councilman Miranda, seconded

09:07:53 by Councilwoman Miller.

09:07:55 All in favor say Aye.

09:07:56 Opposes?

09:07:57 So moved.

09:08:00 We have set aside our 30 minutes today for public

09:08:03 comment.

09:08:05 The 30 minutes for items is giving preference to those

09:08:09 things that are on the agenda, other than public

09:08:11 hearings.

09:08:12 If there's an item on the agenda for public hearing,

09:08:15 you are not allowed to speak during the first 30

09:08:20 minutes.

09:08:20 You speak during the public hearing of that item.

09:08:22 So the first 30 minutes are set aside for items on the

09:08:25 agenda but that are not public hearings.

09:08:27 Public hearing items, you will be allowed to speak

09:08:29 during the public hearing time.

09:08:32 Let me also say as we come today to address council, I

09:08:34 ask that first of all cell phones be silent or turned

09:08:38 off.




09:08:38 Secondly, I ask that you conduct yourself in a manner

09:08:42 that's appropriate and that's becoming in these

09:08:46 chambers.

09:08:48 Thank you for your cooperation and your participation.

09:08:50 If you want to address council at this time, you may

09:08:52 begin to line up and come to the podium, state your

09:08:55 name and address for the record.

09:08:57 You have three minutes.

09:09:01 Anyone wish to address council?

09:09:02 You may begin now lining up, moving forward.

09:09:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Come to the mike.

09:09:08 >> Glen Shul, west San Jose street in Tampa, Florida.

09:09:14 I appeared before you November 5th.

09:09:18 I teach tennis for the City of Tampa on the public

09:09:21 courts.

09:09:23 We have a pay-as-you-go system.

09:09:25 We turn over about $20,000-some dollars which we turn

09:09:31 over to the City of Tampa at no cost to them.

09:09:36 We can have forfeiture of funds.

09:09:39 No drop-ins.

09:09:40 We cannot accept money from the participants.

09:09:46 Due to various council members, including Mary Mulhern




09:09:48 and John Dingfelder, we worked with Karen Palus and

09:09:53 asked they be more flexible, no forfeiture of funds,

09:09:56 allow drop-ins, council acceptance of fees.

09:10:02 In a meeting yesterday that we had with Karen Palus'

09:10:07 public ordinants she's agreed to and been flexible to

09:10:11 agree to no forfeiture, to allow drop ins, to allow us

09:10:15 to spontaneously respond, and we can accept only checks

09:10:20 made out to the city of than the and install drop boxes

09:10:23 and put those checks in there.

09:10:25 So I want to especially thank John Dingfelder and Mary

09:10:28 Mulhern and any other whose interceded on our behalf.

09:10:32 It's a service to the city, basically free money to the

09:10:35 city and the city will accept all administrative work

09:10:38 that's involved in the new system.

09:10:39 I want to thank you very much.

09:10:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

09:10:44 >> George Davis, Jr., 16105 Canton court, Tampa.

09:10:54 I'm coming today before you because I reached out to

09:10:57 the Parks Department.

09:10:59 I like to use gas Lykes park during the Gasparilla day

09:11:05 January 30, 2010.

09:11:07 I have been told that because of resources, there are




09:11:10 not opportunity to use the park that day.

09:11:15 I appear before you to help me in resolving that.

09:11:21 I think that's an ideal day for a nonprofit like

09:11:24 myself.

09:11:24 I represent a fitness, which is a nonprofit, and I

09:11:30 think that it would not cause any more hardship than

09:11:36 the people that are already down in the downtown area.

09:11:40 It should not impede any of the resources that are

09:11:42 already allocated for that event.

09:11:49 So I don't know if I should move forward and do

09:11:54 something else, or set up an appointment to speak with

09:11:57 one of you.

09:11:58 I have reached out to Joseph Caetano's office, and that

09:12:03 was unsuccessful.

09:12:05 So I was hoping that I could have some kind of idea of

09:12:11 how to proceed from here.

09:12:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:12:22 >>MARY MULHERN: You can contact my office.

09:12:25 I need more details to know if we can help you out

09:12:28 with that.

09:12:29 But contact my office.

09:12:33 You can go to the receptionist here and ask if you can




09:12:36 speak with my aide.

09:12:40 Or you can call.

09:12:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Any other speakers?

09:12:48 No one else?

09:12:53 Okay.

09:12:54 Is anyone here to ask for reconsideration on a

09:12:57 legislative matter?

09:12:57 Anyone wish to address council on a reconsideration of

09:13:00 a legislative matter?

09:13:16 Did anyone want to address council that's not on the

09:13:19 agenda?

09:13:22 Anything that's not on the agenda?

09:13:23 Okay.

09:13:24 Thank you.

09:13:25 Item number 1.

09:13:27 Ordinance being presented for first reading.

09:13:29 Councilman Dingfelder.

09:13:30 >> I move the following ordinance for first reading, an

09:13:43 ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida amending City

09:13:45 of Tampa code chapter 2 article 7, civil emergencies,

09:13:50 said amendment being necessary to provide for

09:13:52 additional authority to City Council in determining and




09:13:54 declaring a continuing state of local emergency for

09:13:57 more than 30 days, to revise the language of paragraph

09:14:00 2-402 (C) to correct a scrivener's error, providing an

09:14:06 effective date.

09:14:06 >> It's been moved and seconded by Councilwoman

09:14:09 Mulhern.

09:14:10 Any questions?

09:14:11 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

09:14:14 Opposes?

09:14:14 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being

09:14:16 absent.

09:14:17 Second reading of the ordinance will be held December

09:14:21 3rd at 9:30 a.m.

09:14:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We will move to our committee reports

09:14:25 at this time.

09:14:25 The chair recognizes the honorable Gwen Miller, safety

09:14:31 committee.

09:14:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am going to apologize.

09:14:34 Excuse me one second.

09:14:35 I missed item 24 when we did the addendum.

09:14:40 I would just ask the committee chair and council

09:14:46 generally to accept that apology and pull that, ask




09:14:52 Bonnie to come over and speak to that during staff

09:14:54 reports.

09:14:54 >> That's 24.

09:14:57 >> $7 million.

09:14:59 >> Item 24.

09:15:01 We'll pull that item.

09:15:02 And Ms. Wise has been asked to come over and address

09:15:06 that issue under staff reports.

09:15:13 Thank you.

09:15:15 Councilwoman Miller.

09:15:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Move resolutions 2 through 6.

09:15:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

09:15:22 >> All in favor signify by saying Aye.

09:15:25 Opposes?

09:15:26 Okay.

09:15:26 Parks and recreation.

09:15:28 Councilwoman Mary Mulhern.

09:15:30 >>MARY MULHERN: I move item number 7 through 13.

09:15:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.

09:15:38 >> All in favor signify by saying Aye.

09:15:41 Opposes?

09:15:42 Public works, councilman Miranda.




09:15:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move items 14 through 19.

09:15:46 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.

09:15:50 >> All in favor signify by saying Aye.

09:15:53 Opposes?

09:15:53 Okay.

09:15:54 Finance Committee.

09:15:55 Councilwoman Mary Mulhern.

09:15:56 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 20 through 27.

09:16:03 Removing item 24 for staff reports.

09:16:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

09:16:07 >> All in favor signify by saying Aye.

09:16:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: On 20, I want to thank the good

09:16:20 people to are -- who are working for the city,

09:16:23 associated with the City of Tampa, amalgamated transit

09:16:27 union local for working very diligently and doing what

09:16:30 they believe is best for their organization and the

09:16:33 good people that work for the city under these times.

09:16:37 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll second that.

09:16:39 Thank you.

09:16:39 >> Thank you, councilman Miranda.

09:16:44 That's number 20.

09:16:48 We just approved and ratified that contract.




09:16:51 >>MARY MULHERN: I thought Mr. Territo could come up

09:17:00 and address so we don't have to have staff report.

09:17:04 >>SAL TERRITO: What we are doing on this issue is we

09:17:06 have a loan out there for 7.6 million that comes due

09:17:10 December 1st.

09:17:11 All we are doing is extending the deadline until June

09:17:14 1st.

09:17:14 There's no new money being authorized.

09:17:17 We are simply extending the deadline for when the money

09:17:19 has to be paid back.

09:17:24 You approved this awhile back.

09:17:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.

09:17:27 I'm familiar with the paper that we approved awhile

09:17:29 back but is there any financial in-kind, is there a

09:17:32 financial reason why we have chosen to do that?

09:17:35 >>SAL TERRITO: We were going to take out these

09:17:37 commercial paper loans with the bond issue, with the

09:17:41 bond market being what it is, it's not ready yet.

09:17:43 We think by June we will be able to handle this thing.

09:17:45 The financial impact will be additional interest paid

09:17:48 between December 1st and the June 1st deadline

09:17:51 at a very low interest rate and should be on the doc




09:17:54 agenda cover sheet on what the interest is and the

09:17:57 financial impact.

09:17:58 But there is an impact the next six months but we are

09:18:02 not actually issuing new money for 7.6 million.

09:18:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's already budgeted?

09:18:07 >>SAL TERRITO: Already budgeted.

09:18:09 It was due and because of the fluctuations in the

09:18:12 market the delay on going and taking the money out

09:18:14 with longer term debt.

09:18:17 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll move that item.

09:18:21 >> Second.

09:18:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Everyone moved and seconded.

09:18:23 All in favor?

09:18:25 Opposes?

09:18:25 Okay.

09:18:26 Building and zoning.

09:18:27 Joseph Caetano.

09:18:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to move items 3828

09:18:36 to 34.

09:18:37 (Motion carried).

09:18:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move items 35 through 38.

09:18:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.




09:18:45 >> All in favor?

09:18:48 Opposes?

09:18:48 Okay.

09:18:49 Items set for public hearing.

09:18:50 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to set items 39 through

09:18:52 41.

09:18:53 >> Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:18:56 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

09:18:58 Opposes?

09:18:58 Okay.

09:18:59 Public hearing items.

09:19:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: May I suggest you take a look at the

09:19:16 three new items on your addendum.

09:19:20 The first item is a request to schedule recognition

09:19:26 built Ballast Point neighborhood association for a

09:19:28 large donation check.

09:19:30 They are going to be putting that on the consent docket

09:19:33 for the next regular meeting on December 3rd but

09:19:35 would like to come to council during ceremonial and

09:19:38 present that.

09:19:38 So if that could be added to ceremonial items.

09:19:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would ask this be placed -- it was




09:19:45 done during ceremonial time.

09:19:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.

09:19:50 >> Second.

09:19:51 (Motion carried).

09:19:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You severed a memorandum from

09:19:56 director of human resources for a public hearing on

09:19:59 December 2nd, 2009 at 1:30 in the afternoon to

09:20:01 consider the contract issues with the Tampa police

09:20:05 benevolent association, the impasse hearing.

09:20:08 So if that could be scheduled by motion and vote, it

09:20:10 will be a special call meeting.

09:20:12 It will be on Wednesday, December 2nd at 1:30, just

09:20:18 to discuss that issue.

09:20:20 And it will be a full noticed public hearing.

09:20:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.

09:20:25 >> Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.

09:20:27 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

09:20:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Lastly -- this was not placed on the

09:20:37 agenda but I had sent a memo requesting that the -- if

09:20:40 you were going to set a hearing on the impasse you

09:20:42 consider establishing the procedures that we had

09:20:44 drafted and previously distributed to council.




09:20:49 That's up to council's discretion.

09:20:51 It's essentially the same procedure as used with the

09:20:54 firefighters last year with the additional deadlines

09:20:56 that we discussed.

09:20:56 >> Do we need to approve that?

09:21:00 Are we going to use that same format?

09:21:03 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: It should be a motion by council.

09:21:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What we are approving now is the

09:21:07 process for the hearing that we used last time with the

09:21:10 firefighters.

09:21:11 And you should all have a copy of that.

09:21:15 Distributed a copy of that a few weeks ago a, yes.

09:21:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: More specifically, it is not

09:21:19 identical.

09:21:20 But what Mr. Fletcher has provided to you, actually

09:21:24 what the guidelines will be in a memo form.

09:21:27 You previously received them.

09:21:28 If you want to hold this vote till you receive them

09:21:31 again, I have worked with Mr. Fletcher.

09:21:33 I'm satisfied that it more than meets the requirements

09:21:36 for council.

09:21:39 And if you would then -- and I don't know if the clerk




09:21:42 has a copy of that but I will make that part of the

09:21:44 record, and that would be your motion and vote that you

09:21:47 approve it, the procedure as submitted by the city

09:21:51 attorney.

09:21:51 >> Well, we had a conference in my office about this a

09:21:54 couple weeks ago.

09:21:56 I asked him to distribute it to the rest of the council

09:21:59 members.

09:22:00 It's my understanding that was done so they should have

09:22:01 that as part of their portfolio, or their records.

09:22:04 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I distributed it and met with many

09:22:09 of the council members after that.

09:22:13 And then when I learned it's possible that someone may

09:22:15 be requesting the hearing be seventh set I resubmitted

09:22:19 it earlier this week.

09:22:20 So you all should have that.

09:22:21 The one difference in the procedure from last year to

09:22:25 this year would be the request that the bargaining

09:22:30 agents for both sides submit any final proposals 48

09:22:33 hours prior to the hearing so that council has the

09:22:35 opportunity to review those.

09:22:37 That's the only significant difference between the




09:22:39 procedure from last year and the procedure for this

09:22:41 year.

09:22:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I know it sounds trivial but how

09:22:46 long do we establish in the procedure?

09:22:49 A length of time?

09:22:50 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: For the hearing?

09:22:53 >> For both sides or whatever it is.

09:22:55 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: It would be 30 minutes for each

09:22:57 side plus potential opportunities for rebuttal or

09:23:00 response at the discretion of the chair.

09:23:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I may redirect the motion to

09:23:05 include exactly what Mr. Fletcher just said for the

09:23:12 date of December 2nd.

09:23:14 That memo will be included as part of the record.

09:23:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, December 2nd.

09:23:18 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

09:23:20 Opposes?

09:23:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Fletcher, I take it that the

09:23:25 union will receive a copy of that in advance so they

09:23:27 will be able to abide by that, the time deadline?

09:23:32 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: They should have received it some

09:23:34 time ago and to make sure that they do have it, I had




09:23:36 it faxed to them yesterday, I believe.

09:23:38 So there should be no miscommunication on that issue.

09:23:44 I am hopeful that all occurred but I am not sure if you

09:23:48 all would be considering this today so I hadn't done a

09:23:50 lot of pre-briefing on that issue.

09:23:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.

09:23:57 Finally, council, last week at your workshop, due to

09:24:00 time constraints, you removed the item regarding

09:24:04 suggestions concerning hearing officers for significant

09:24:07 issues pertaining to the zoning administrator, vested

09:24:10 rights of time limits with the Nobel hearings,

09:24:12 pertaining to appeals from the board, as suggested by

09:24:15 council member Miranda.

09:24:18 And I'm asking council, because that has fallen off

09:24:21 your agenda, that it be put back on so that Ms. Cole

09:24:24 can actually present to council, and you can move this

09:24:26 process forward.

09:24:27 In looking at the agenda with the chair, if you can

09:24:30 look at your calendar for December, December 17th,

09:24:34 in the afternoon, you have to come back for only one

09:24:38 SU-2 alcoholic beverage hearing.

09:24:40 I'm suggesting, council, that you set aside 30 minutes




09:24:43 at that time to be able to take up that item, if you

09:24:45 wish.

09:24:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I appreciate

09:24:50 everything our attorney has said.

09:24:51 But the agenda is line item with the reports but the

09:24:56 greater importance is that City Council members, seven,

09:25:00 for whatever reason are all going to be here, or if

09:25:03 someone is going to be out, I don't know that.

09:25:05 I think there's a council member out today for various

09:25:09 reasons that are appropriate ones, but I would like to

09:25:12 see the council vote on a certain day so no one can say

09:25:15 I didn't know about it.

09:25:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't know whether everybody is

09:25:20 going to be here on the 3rd.

09:25:22 I can hold that item.

09:25:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, if you can speak with the

09:25:29 offices.

09:25:36 So then we will bring that back on the 3rd.

09:25:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If that's council's pleasure, yes.

09:25:40 >> In the meantime, review everybody's calendars.

09:25:45 Thank you very much.

09:25:46 Any other new business?




09:25:47 Councilman Dingfelder?

09:25:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, thank you.

09:25:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern?

09:25:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Oh, I did have one thing.

09:26:03 Excuse me.

09:26:05 Yesterday, it was brought to my attention that perhaps

09:26:08 the Tampa fire department was implementing some new

09:26:16 inspection processes and procedures as related to

09:26:18 businesses.

09:26:20 And specifically the gentleman I was talking to who has

09:26:24 a small business was complaining and said, you know,

09:26:27 he's been in business in the same location for 20, 30

09:26:31 years, and now they have come in and said, you need to

09:26:34 upgrade your sprinkler system to a higher standard.

09:26:38 And this isn't even a business where the public comes

09:26:41 and goes.

09:26:42 It's sort of a very kind of office-typesetting.

09:26:46 So, anyway, I don't know that any of that's true or not

09:26:50 because, you know, you just hear things.

09:26:54 But I think it is important, because this is not the

09:26:57 time for us to be banging on small businesses.

09:27:00 Joseph reminds us regularly.




09:27:03 So I would like to just make a motion for Tampa Fire

09:27:07 Rescue to come in, in about three, four weeks, and give

09:27:11 us a little briefing, if anything has changed in regard

09:27:14 to that issue.

09:27:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded by

09:27:18 councilman Miranda.

09:27:19 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

09:27:22 You want that to be in December?

09:27:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have two meetings in December,

09:27:28 the 3rd and 17th and the 17th is the last

09:27:32 meeting before the holiday break.

09:27:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The second.

09:27:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And you want them to talk about the

09:27:41 application of upgraded standards to existing

09:27:45 buildings?

09:27:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.

09:27:47 Are they doing something new or different in regard to

09:27:53 their inspections and requirements in regard to

09:27:55 existing businesses?

09:27:56 And that's under staff reports.

09:27:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

09:28:02 I have one item of new business and I would like to




09:28:04 outline them since we have a full audience here today.

09:28:10 On Saturday, November 21st, the Tampa independent

09:28:13 business alliance, which I think we call it TBA, is

09:28:18 marking America unchained by asking the community to

09:28:22 unchain -- and this is on the same subject of local

09:28:25 businesses -- by doing all their shopping, dining out

09:28:28 and other business only with locally-owned

09:28:31 independents, which adds millions of dollars to the

09:28:33 local economy.

09:28:35 So this is once a year they try to highlight our local

09:28:38 businesses across the country.

09:28:41 And so if you could mark your calendar, if you are

09:28:43 shopping on Saturday, November 21st, which is

09:28:52 Thanksgiving, before the big shopping day, to try to

09:28:55 patronize our local businesses, because it really does

09:28:58 bring more money back into our economy.

09:29:02 That's all I had.

09:29:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It's about 9:30 so I am going to

09:29:08 yield to your prerogative, to a later time in the

09:29:14 hearing.

09:29:14 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to make a motion to

09:29:16 present a commendation to the East Tampa community




09:29:19 partnership.

09:29:21 We are going to be recognizing the second annual

09:29:23 holiday tree lighting celebration.

09:29:25 It's going to be held at the new police station on 22nd

09:29:28 street, and it's going to be held on Friday, December

09:29:31 11th.

09:29:32 So on December 3rd I am going to ask Denise Meteye

09:29:34 James to come down to accept the commendation.

09:29:38 And I will present it to her then.

09:29:40 >> Moved and seconded.

09:29:43 (Motion carried)

09:29:47 Anything else?

09:29:49 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I think I had the same call that

09:29:51 Mr. Dingfelder got in reference to the sprinkler

09:29:53 systems.

09:29:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

09:29:58 It's 9:30.

09:29:59 We'll take up the 9:30 public hearing. Motion to open?

09:30:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move items 42, I believe, and 43 at

09:30:06 this time.

09:30:06 >> Moved and seconded.

09:30:08 All in favor?




09:30:09 Item 42.

09:30:14 Item 42.

09:30:15 Anyone wishing to address council to item 42?

09:30:18 Does the attorney want to speak to that?

09:30:20 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Assistant City Attorney. This is

09:30:33 the second reading to section 23.5-5, any violations to

09:30:42 Tampa city code that had not been previously set forth.

09:30:45 This is pursuant to your request.

09:30:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is in the code enforcement issue?

09:31:00 >> Civil citation.

09:31:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.

09:31:04 >> Second.

09:31:05 (Motion carried).

09:31:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That was my no vote on that one.

09:31:10 >> Min, too.

09:31:12 Yes.

09:31:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm sorry, I thought you were

09:31:20 voting on the motion.

09:31:21 I'm sorry.

09:31:22 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented

09:31:24 for second reading and adoption, an ordinance of the

09:31:26 city of Tampa, Florida striking language recently added




09:31:28 to section 23.5-5 (A) that designated as a class 1

09:31:35 violation any violation of the Tampa city code not

09:31:37 already set forth in the schedule of fines and

09:31:40 penalties, providing for repeal of all ordinances in

09:31:43 conflict, providing for severability, providing an

09:31:47 effective date.

09:31:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I am supporting the

09:31:50 ordinance.

09:31:50 I believe this is the one that Ms. Miller asked for the

09:31:53 revision into the ordinance a couple of weeks back.

09:31:56 This would be a blank check for individuals in the city

09:32:01 to go out and anything that is not in the ordinance to

09:32:04 say, well, that's a violation, even though it's not

09:32:07 specifically addressed.

09:32:09 In this great country we live in, that's like telling,

09:32:13 not that the police department would do that, let me

09:32:15 clarify that, giving you a speeding ticket for being

09:32:18 parked at a meter that's not expired.

09:32:19 You can't do that.

09:32:21 To me it's unconstitutional a.

09:32:23 You have to have guidelines.

09:32:25 Certainly you have to have enforcement.




09:32:26 But that's the reason I'm supporting Ms. Mulhern's

09:32:30 presentation of this ordinance.

09:32:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question for Ernie.

09:32:43 Isn't there a catch-all, either under local or state

09:32:47 law that says any violation of city code is a potential

09:32:53 first or second degree misdemeanor?

09:33:02 While you are leaning forward there.

09:33:06 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Certain parts of our code are

09:33:08 treated as misdemeanors.

09:33:10 >> Councilman Dingfelder, to a certain degree that's

09:33:18 correct.

09:33:18 In fact, the infamous ordinance utilized that section

09:33:25 of the code as a way of taking enforcement on that.

09:33:28 So, yes, that that is correct.

09:33:30 But there's case law that limits that to more active,

09:33:35 what I would call active violations of the code as

09:33:37 opposed to a code violations.

09:33:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Have you found that the city has

09:33:42 been abusive of that sort of catch-all?

09:33:46 Or do we use it in a wise way?

09:33:50 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: No, sir, in my experience with the

09:33:52 city, first of all it's limited to the police




09:33:54 department.

09:33:55 And I have not had experience with such abuse since I

09:34:00 have been here.

09:34:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess that's my point.

09:34:03 A lot of these types of laws, because there's so many

09:34:06 laws -- Marty, hold up our code book there.

09:34:10 It's sort of hard to lift with one hand.

09:34:13 But there's so many codes that sometimes you do need,

09:34:17 in my opinion, you do need a catch-all for these types

09:34:20 of things.

09:34:21 And in code enforcement, I think this was the city's

09:34:26 attempt and the city administration's attempt to create

09:34:29 this sort of catch-all for whatever type of code

09:34:32 violations we haven't specifically enunciated as being

09:34:37 falling under the civil citations that the city might

09:34:41 have that ability to do that.

09:34:43 Now, I don't see us being abusive of that.

09:34:46 But obviously that's just my opinion.

09:34:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I respectfully disagree with both

09:34:59 speakers that just spoke.

09:35:01 Code enforcement is doing a good job, they are trying

09:35:03 to do their job, they are trying to make the city a




09:35:05 better place to live.

09:35:06 However, when you go back, and sit here at this podium

09:35:11 months ago, it is a certain area or certain areas of

09:35:13 the city that receive 95 to 98% of all code enforcement

09:35:20 complaints or fines.

09:35:24 I really believe that this city although is trying to

09:35:27 do a great job has to change their mind-set and go from

09:35:32 code enforcement to code enhancement, because it is the

09:35:37 same people who cannot afford to keep their properties

09:35:39 up, it is the same ones that on one side of town get

09:35:44 cited for a 3 by 6 sign, while you come to certain

09:35:47 areas of the more area town, and you have 12 by 12

09:35:53 sign, and all of a sudden they don't see that big sign.

09:35:58 Well, I have files, anytime Chip or anybody else wants

09:36:01 to see these files, they are welcome.

09:36:03 I can show you signs that says no parking on city

09:36:06 right-of-way on a city sign, and right under it on the

09:36:09 same sign, parking for so-and-so only.

09:36:12 We are wrong.

09:36:13 We have got to help instead of ham hamper.

09:36:18 We can do this with a little money and I don't mean as

09:36:21 a grant.




09:36:21 I mean as a loan, so that if they don't have the money

09:36:24 to pay it back, when that house becomes available

09:36:27 through death or whatever, then the city can collect

09:36:29 their fund.

09:36:30 But in the meantime, we are chasing our own tail and

09:36:33 not making any progress to my estimation.

09:36:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Sorry to interrupt or add to it but

09:36:43 just for council's clarification section 1-6 of the

09:36:48 code, general penalties, states code violations, fine

09:36:53 and/or imprisonment, it is lawful for any person to

09:36:56 violator fail to comply with any provision of this

09:36:58 code, and when no specific penalty is provided

09:37:03 therefore the violation of any provision of this code

09:37:05 shall be punished by a fine not exceeding $500 'n

09:37:08 and/or imprisonment for not exceeding 60 days or term

09:37:12 of probation not to exceed six months as set forth,

09:37:15 et cetera, et cetera.

09:37:15 But as to application, Mr. Fletcher addressed that.

09:37:20 But within your code is that provision.

09:37:22 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Just to clarify that, that's a

09:37:29 second degree misdemeanor would. That apply to what we

09:37:32 traditionally think of code violations, because there




09:37:34 are other penalties allowed so those would be excluded

09:37:38 under that criminal penalty.

09:37:39 Just so we are clear.

09:37:41 Also, just to be clear, now that this issue has been

09:37:45 raised by council, our office is supportive of this

09:37:47 change.

09:37:48 We haven't had any issue.

09:37:50 We simply add it so we could deal with these other

09:37:55 extraneous issues or when there's been a change in the

09:37:57 code, it would be easier to make sure it continued to

09:37:59 apply.

09:38:00 But we are very supportive of this now that we have

09:38:02 heard council's concerns about how it would be applied.

09:38:05 >>MARY MULHERN: I would just like to add that I think

09:38:10 Mr. Shelby's reading that shows that there is the

09:38:14 ability, even though it sounds like we are not using

09:38:16 that, is an argument not to make any kind of broad area

09:38:22 where people may be committing a misdemeanor that they

09:38:25 have no idea, and that isn't delineated in our code.

09:38:28 I think that's an argument for adopting this change so

09:38:31 that if you are committing a code violation, it should

09:38:35 be delineated and you should be able to know that, what




09:38:38 you are doing is a code violation.

09:38:40 So again I support it.

09:38:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

09:38:44 The reason I brought it back is because it will help

09:38:47 the people in certain areas.

09:38:50 Certain areas have a hard time paying those fines.

09:38:52 And if they cannot pay them, a penalty that is really

09:38:56 hard for them, and I am very happy that the city

09:39:00 attorney does agree with me on this item because it

09:39:03 will really help our city, and say nobody is being

09:39:07 treated mean, and I don't think the police officers

09:39:09 will do anything, but I would like to protect some

09:39:11 areas in our city so they will have it.

09:39:16 >>GWEN MILLER: There's a motion on the-

09:39:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion on the floor.

09:39:22 Moved and seconded.

09:39:23 Record your vote, please.

09:39:26 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder voting no

09:39:35 and Saul-Sena being absent.

09:39:36 >> Council, on item 43, that's going to take a little

09:39:42 time, but item 44 should only take a minute, if we can

09:39:45 dispose of that.




09:39:48 We will then take up item 43.

09:39:55 Moved and seconded.

09:39:57 Okay.

09:39:57 Anyone that's going to be addressing council on this

09:39:59 item needs to be sworn in.

09:40:00 This is item 44 on the closing of is the alleyway.

09:40:08 Miranda seeing none I move to close.

09:40:10 >> Second.

09:40:11 (Motion carried).

09:40:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move an ordinance for second

09:40:15 reading and adoption, an ordinance vacating, closing,

09:40:18 discontinuing, and abandoning a certain right-of-way

09:40:23 alley lying south of east Idlewild Avenue north of east

09:40:26 Clifton east of north branch Avenue and west of north

09:40:29 Central Avenue in north Seminole Heights a subdivision

09:40:32 in the city of Tampa, Florida as more fully described

09:40:34 in section 2 herein subject to certain covenants,

09:40:38 conditions and restrictions as more particularly

09:40:40 described herein, providing an effective date.

09:40:42 >>GWEN MILLER: It's moved and seconded.

09:40:45 Record your vote, please.

09:40:46 Item 44.




09:40:47 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being

09:40:50 absent.

09:40:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: At this time we take up item 43 of

09:41:01 that has already been open for public hearing.

09:41:05 We will determine how much time we can allocate because

09:41:08 at 10:30 we have to stop to take up 10:30 time certain.

09:41:12 And also at 11:00.

09:41:14 So how many people, just raise your hand, are going to

09:41:17 be addressing council?

09:41:19 Okay.

09:41:24 We will set the time for two minutes per person, which

09:41:27 gives you about two minutes and 40 seconds, almost

09:41:31 three minutes.

09:41:32 Gives you almost three minutes.

09:41:33 You get two and a half minutes.

09:41:34 Okay?

09:41:37 To speak to council, address council on item 43.

09:41:40 As you come, if you will line up, pros and cons, one on

09:41:45 the left, one on the right, if you are for this

09:41:47 ordinance, line up to my left.

09:41:49 If you support and want council to support, line up to

09:41:51 my left.




09:41:52 If you are against the ordinance line up to my right.

09:42:01 >> Are you sure you said this right?

09:42:03 >> if you oppose this ordinance line up to my right.

09:42:06 If you support the ordinance line up to my left.

09:42:10 And we will alternate back and forth.

09:42:18 Council is still in session, please.

09:42:29 Please, hold your conversation down.

09:42:31 Council is still in session.

09:42:34 This is still a public legal hearing.

09:42:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, Mr. Fletcher is back

09:42:43 in the corner there.

09:42:49 Chip, I can't remember where I heard it in the last

09:42:51 week or two.

09:42:52 But I heard there was some clarification about state

09:42:55 law as related to some of the restroom questions that

09:43:00 were being tossed around.

09:43:04 And maybe we can clarify that before there's too much

09:43:07 confusion.

09:43:08 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Mr. Chairman, if I may.

09:43:13 There are state laws on use of bathrooms but I would

09:43:17 direct you on that issue to another provision of the

09:43:20 human rights ordinance that we are not amending.




09:43:23 This does speak to bathrooms and related facilities.

09:43:26 And it applies to the entire article on the whole code

09:43:32 on public accommodations and says discrimination on the

09:43:35 basis of sex, in restrooms, shower rooms, health spas

09:43:40 or other similar facilities, which by their nature are

09:43:46 private, and also dormitories are exempt.

09:43:50 And sex in this case is defined to relate back directly

09:43:54 to reproductive organs.

09:43:56 So in our view, this change will have no impact on the

09:44:01 use of those particular facilities in public

09:44:06 accommodations or housing.

09:44:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

09:44:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We will start with the lady on my

09:44:14 right.

09:44:21 >> Good morning.

09:44:24 I am 73 young great grandmother who came to Tampa 35

09:44:29 years ago.

09:44:31 I was always happy to be part of here, telling people

09:44:35 about how family-friendly we were, and we still are

09:44:42 right now.

09:44:42 But I have an eight-year-old granddaughter, and things

09:44:47 keep getting worse.




09:44:49 I'm no longer able to let her run a little free like

09:44:55 going into restrooms or going somewhere.

09:45:00 We'll have to be watching the children far more than

09:45:03 what we do now.

09:45:05 And believe me, I watch.

09:45:09 But we sometimes have the tail wagging the dog, because

09:45:14 I don't hear all the things that I think some of our

09:45:18 people over here are going to be saying.

09:45:24 I have been a probation officer.

09:45:26 I have been a chaplain in the jails for 14-plus years,

09:45:30 volunteer.

09:45:35 Worked for Tampa Police Department.

09:45:37 I never experienced or held anything like what has

09:45:47 happened.

09:45:47 And I would like to see -- they announced on the news

09:45:50 this morning how our economy is getting so bad, and

09:45:56 Florida, and we are getting tourists, snowbirds,

09:46:01 Christmas, Thanksgiving.

09:46:05 And this can affect our economy, too.

09:46:09 If we can't a sure that families can come down, and

09:46:15 there won't be any problems, anything affecting their

09:46:20 family.




09:46:25 Like I said, my great grandkids.

09:46:28 I'm working in the ministry to the homeless.

09:46:36 And we treat everyone like your sign says, Tampa

09:46:42 supports all citizens.

09:46:43 And I think Tampa would be supporting all citizens even

09:46:50 if this did pass.

09:46:52 And it has to be done individually.

09:46:54 (Bell sounds)

09:46:55 We do not have anything --

09:46:57 Thank you, ma'am.

09:46:58 >>> That says --

09:47:01 Could you state your name, please?

09:47:03 >> I'm sorry.

09:47:04 Roberta Kittrell, and this is the first time I have

09:47:10 done this, 73 years.

09:47:11 >> Yes, ma'am.

09:47:12 Next speaker, please.

09:47:13 Name and address.

09:47:17 [ Applause ]

09:47:18 Please, there will be no applauding.

09:47:20 Please.

09:47:21 Thank you.




09:47:21 >> My name is Philip Dinkins, 2621 south Brian circle.

09:47:25 I'm the chairman of the City of Tampa human rights

09:47:27 board.

09:47:29 It's amazing to look back and see how far we have come

09:47:32 as a city and as a country to accept diversity and

09:47:35 offer basic civil rights to our citizens and not just

09:47:39 those that look after believing exactly as we do.

09:47:42 It's hard to believe that prior to 1920 women would not

09:47:45 even vote let alone hold elected office or compete for

09:47:48 the same jobs as men.

09:47:50 Had we been in this room back in 1920 we would have

09:47:53 been talking about sexual equality on gender.

09:47:58 50 years ago the discussion would have been about race.

09:48:01 Ten years ago it would have been about sexual

09:48:03 orientation.

09:48:05 Today we are asking that gender identity and expression

09:48:08 be added to the City of Tampa human rights ordinance to

09:48:11 ensure that all our citizens have equal protections.

09:48:15 Change is not always easy.

09:48:17 And change can bring controversy and fear.

09:48:20 But the bottom line is discrimination is wrong, and

09:48:24 history has proven that expanding our civil rights for




09:48:27 our citizens has been the right thing to do.

09:48:29 We are not Trail Blazers in this regard.

09:48:33 Already 13 states, Washington, D.C., 17 municipalities

09:48:36 in Florida, over 90 colleges and universities, 108

09:48:42 cities across the country, and over 60% of the largest

09:48:45 U.S. companies have already added gender identity and

09:48:48 expression to the human rights ordinances.

09:48:51 They did it because it was right and it was the fair

09:48:54 thing to do.

09:48:56 A great thing happened in Salt Lake City last week.

09:48:58 Perhaps you saw it in the paper.

09:49:00 Salt Lake City add ad gender identity and expression to

09:49:03 their human rights ordinance, and they did it with the

09:49:06 support of the Mormon church.

09:49:08 I would like to quote the director of public affairs

09:49:10 for the Mormon church who was quoted in the "St. Pete

09:49:13 Times" last Thursday.

09:49:14 He said: Supporting basic civil values does not

09:49:18 compromise the church's religious beliefs.

09:49:22 As Chairman Scott said during the last council meeting,

09:49:25 this issue is about discrimination.

09:49:28 And he's right.




09:49:29 It's clear and simple.

09:49:31 If there is anyone in our city who could lose their job

09:49:34 or be refused a home or public accommodations due to

09:49:37 prejudice and discrimination, then this is not right.

09:49:42 And there is a group of our citizens that fall into

09:49:44 that gap.

09:49:45 And your actions today will show that Tampa is an all

09:49:49 inclusive city that respect it is dignity all humans

09:49:52 deserve.

09:49:53 I encourage you to vote yes on the amendment.

09:49:55 Thank you.

09:49:56 (Bell sounds).

09:49:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

09:49:58 >> David Caton, I'm the executive director of Florida

09:50:02 Family Association.

09:50:03 I begin with the issue of the restrooms and the section

09:50:08 that is cited as originally being enacted some 20 years

09:50:13 ago, only applies to the category of sex.

09:50:16 And if this language is to be written for the fullness

09:50:19 and the protection of everybody in the city with regard

09:50:22 to this issue, a transgender, or gender identity

09:50:26 category should have been placed in the exemption.




09:50:28 City attorney Chip Fletcher told the Tribune that cross

09:50:32 dressing is not covered under this new proposed

09:50:36 ordinance, but individuals who are undergoing sexual

09:50:39 assignment surgery.

09:50:41 I would like to see those words somewhere in the

09:50:45 defining ordinance.

09:50:46 Because they are not there and this is not right for

09:50:49 the city to be making this kind of representation to

09:50:52 the people when it's not accurate.

09:50:57 Traditional criteria for adding a category to any civil

09:51:02 rights ordinance is one to prove a demonstrable pattern

09:51:06 of discrimination exists against a class as a whole.

09:51:11 Does that pattern of discrimination result in economic

09:51:14 hardship among the class, and the class seeking

09:51:17 protection is unchangeable.

09:51:21 And I have yet to see any complaints filed, I have yet

09:51:24 to see, there's somewhere between one or maybe ten, and

09:51:29 we are here today to discuss that.

09:51:32 This is all about politics.

09:51:34 And African-Americans pushed for the right thing to do,

09:51:38 the civil rights act of 1963.

09:51:40 They produced six government warehouses of documents




09:51:45 supporting their claim.

09:51:48 We have not seen those claims today.

09:51:50 The City of Tampa's sexual orientation ordinance has

09:51:53 had less than four complaints filed in the last 18

09:51:56 years.

09:51:59 But not one complaint has resulted in an adjudication,

09:52:03 an actual court finding, that anybody who is

09:52:07 discriminated against on the basis of sexual

09:52:09 orientation.

09:52:10 I would say transgender issue is far less than that.

09:52:14 I encourage this board to look into this as a political

09:52:19 social approval.

09:52:20 That's what this is all about today, and it has nothing

09:52:23 to do with real discrimination complaints.

09:52:26 I am going to hand you our summary of the

09:52:31 discrimination cases in Tampa.

09:52:33 (Bell sounds)

09:52:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

09:52:38 Next.

09:52:38 >> (Off microphone)

09:52:38 >> My address is 10020 Oxford Chapel Drive, Tampa,

09:52:50 Florida.




09:52:50 Thank you.

09:52:50 >> We had 2,000 e-mails.

09:52:56 >> Excuse me, that doesn't matter. What's required is

09:53:00 they state their name and address.

09:53:02 Whether they are in the city or not is irrelevant at

09:53:05 this point.

09:53:05 It's a public hearing.

09:53:12 Let's be careful here now, because the problem is that

09:53:14 this is a public hearing, and we are starting now to

09:53:18 ask whether they are in the city, out of the city.

09:53:20 In my opinion that's not appropriate.

09:53:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But what you think is relevant and

09:53:28 I think is relevant, I am not going to ask every time,

09:53:32 Mr. Chairman, out of deference to your request.

09:53:34 But I don't believe it's irrelevant.

09:53:36 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I have to say something.

09:53:38 We have somebody that comes to Temple Terrace that

09:53:39 comes here to tell us what to do, and you know who he

09:53:43 is, Mr. Dingfelder.

09:53:44 He's here every week.

09:53:46 And we recognize him.

09:53:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's hear from the public.




09:53:49 Yes, ma'am.

09:53:49 >> My name is Karen Putney, 2613 west Watrous Avenue.

09:53:54 I would like to thank you for the process which allows

09:53:58 for the second reading which gives the community time

09:54:00 to consider what's before you, and to listen to all

09:54:04 voices.

09:54:06 I have heard, participated in and read the discussion

09:54:09 on this issue, and my understanding of those who oppose

09:54:14 this language being included, is a discussion of how

09:54:18 and why to discriminate.

09:54:21 And I think clearly makes the case for why this

09:54:23 language does need to be included in the ordinance, why

09:54:27 this protection needs to be afforded.

09:54:29 My children are a fourth generation of our family in

09:54:32 Tampa.

09:54:33 They are adults.

09:54:33 I have three adult children.

09:54:35 I'm a mom.

09:54:36 I'm a quaker.

09:54:37 I'm a lot of things.

09:54:38 I'm a citizen of Tampa.

09:54:39 And I'm hopeful that my children will want to settle in




09:54:42 Tampa.

09:54:44 But my children are of a generation who recognize that

09:54:48 they want to live in a place, a community where there's

09:54:53 equity for all citizens, and where every citizen's

09:54:57 potential may be fulfilled.

09:54:59 And that means that this ordinance needs to have this

09:55:04 language in it for my children to be able to settle

09:55:07 here.

09:55:08 They have very high standards for the community.

09:55:10 They want to live in high expectations.

09:55:13 And I'm hopeful that you will pass this language in

09:55:18 this amendment to allow for my community to be the

09:55:21 community, my children can settle in.

09:55:24 Thank you.

09:55:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Karen.

09:55:27 >> Next speaker?

09:55:28 >> Todd Marks, 1040 greenmont drive, Westchase, and on

09:55:39 Kennedy, if that matters.

09:55:44 Council's proposal to amend the human rights ordinance

09:55:46 to include gender expression or gender identity is an

09:55:50 unconstitutional assault on freedom of association of

09:55:54 citizens.




09:55:55 It's an assault on free enterprise and it's morally

09:55:58 wrong.

09:56:02 The human rights ordinance is wrong because it impedes

09:56:05 on the Constitutional rights of others and freedom of

09:56:07 association.

09:56:08 And it is morally wrong to force those who have an

09:56:13 objection to transgender life-style to accept as

09:56:16 normal.

09:56:16 The proposed law is wrong by the list of protected

09:56:20 classes or suspect class.

09:56:22 Council is extending the human rights ordinance to

09:56:24 exceed protections afforded under the United States

09:56:26 Constitution.

09:56:28 Gender identity and expression is not a protected

09:56:31 class.

09:56:32 There is no trait having a sex change surgery is not an

09:56:38 immutable characteristic such as skin color.

09:56:41 I chose to wear a suit today and not jeans -- in fact

09:56:48 discrimination occurs daily in the workplace.

09:56:51 For instance employees are not to wear suggested

09:56:57 clothing.

09:56:57 Employees are required under Florida law, in fact to




09:57:02 fire someone without cause.

09:57:04 Under this change an employer could fire someone for

09:57:06 wearing suggested clothing to work, but not if they are

09:57:10 transgender, or as part of the discussion a cross

09:57:14 dresser.

09:57:16 For wearing the same outfit for fear of government

09:57:20 intervention under this proposal.

09:57:23 The law impedes unconstitutional right to business

09:57:26 owners and individuals who do not share the same value

09:57:28 system the same way the boy scouts of America case

09:57:32 where the boy scouts were allowed to exercise their

09:57:35 freedom of association and choose to associate with

09:57:38 those who had norms and values like themselves.

09:57:41 Clients and customers of a business can certainly

09:57:43 discriminate against the business who chooses to retain

09:57:46 someone who has undergone a sex change operation and to

09:57:49 force a business to do so at a time when we have

09:57:52 skyrocketing unemployment, insurance, and time when

09:57:55 taxes are excessive and we have an 11% unemployment

09:57:58 rate, it's an invitation to litigation.

09:58:02 It is an assault on business.

09:58:04 (Bell sounds)




09:58:05 We would ask you to reconsider this proposal.

09:58:07 It hurts families.

09:58:08 It hurts businesses.

09:58:09 It's unconstitutional.

09:58:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

09:58:11 Next speaker.

09:58:12 >>> Tobias Packer, in Miami.

09:58:24 I come here on behalf of nearly 10,000 members of

09:58:26 quality Florida, Florida State wide lesbians, gay,

09:58:30 transgendered organization, and 10,000 members here in

09:58:33 the Tampa area a.

09:58:35 I'm also a transgender person who has experienced the

09:58:38 discrimination in employment firsthand.

09:58:41 I actually came to the Tampa area directly after

09:58:45 graduating from an Ivy league institution looking for

09:58:47 employment, and I had employers tell me specifically

09:58:50 that they could not hire me, would not hire me because

09:58:53 I am a transgendered person.

09:58:56 I would like to thank the council for your vote fro two

09:58:59 weeks ago for voting unanimous unanimously to bring

09:59:02 this matter forward, and a I thank you for recognizing

09:59:04 the discrimination is wrong.




09:59:08 Thank you for your support for this.

09:59:10 Common sense measure that cities across the country and

09:59:12 across our state as Philip Dinkins said, there are 17

09:59:17 municipalities hear in the State of Florida who already

09:59:18 have this on the books.

09:59:21 I know since your vote two weeks ago that a church in

09:59:26 the county has asked its members to bombard you with

09:59:30 letters and e-mails to say terrible things about

09:59:33 transgendered people, like myself, people who advocate

09:59:36 for civil rights and for Tampa to be a fair city.

09:59:39 They hope to inspire fear and confusion but I really

09:59:42 ask that you simply look at the facts and the legal

09:59:44 realities of this measure.

09:59:46 The majority of the fortune 500 companies, several of

09:59:50 whom have representatives here today to speak with you

09:59:52 about this issue.

09:59:55 And major, major employers in Tampa already support

09:59:59 this measure, already have these in their company

10:00:01 policies in this measure, because they know the

10:00:05 realities.

10:00:05 They know that including gender identity, gender

10:00:09 expression, in the company policy and in the city, they




10:00:17 help people overcome barriers to support themselves, to

10:00:20 become contributing members of society.

10:00:25 These policies ensure that no citizen of Tampa will

10:00:27 face discrimination in the workplace, and improves the

10:00:31 local economy by drawing the bright and brightest and

10:00:34 making sure that the workplace and citizens of Tampa

10:00:39 who value someone's ability to contribute to a matter

10:00:42 as opposed to based on individual bias and prejudice.

10:00:47 So on behalf of a quality Florida, Florida State wide

10:00:51 GLBT organization, I thank you for your support for

10:00:53 this measure.

10:00:54 >> Thank you.

10:00:55 Next speaker.

10:00:56 >>> Good morning, members of the council.

10:01:03 My name is Reverend W. James Favorite, and I'm the

10:01:07 pastor of the Beulah Baptist Institutional Church here

10:01:10 in Tampa, also the president of Pastors on Patrol

10:01:14 organization in Tampa.

10:01:17 In our meeting on this past Monday, we decided that it

10:01:21 was time that we would get involved and speak up, and

10:01:28 we have heard so much about this gender identity

10:01:33 ordinance.




10:01:36 I've heard a number of individuals already that talks

10:01:40 about civil rights and discrimination, which appear to

10:01:48 be just a covering to hide what this really is about.

10:01:54 What we believe it's about is that it's about an

10:01:58 abandonment of our core values.

10:02:01 I do not understand, as I read the ordinance, it talks

10:02:07 about a new definition for gender identity.

10:02:14 Why do we need a new definition for gender identity?

10:02:19 Why do we need to cover up this idea of men and women

10:02:25 cross dressing to gain entrance into areas that

10:02:31 otherwise they would not be privy to?

10:02:36 Why do we have to give consideration to this which will

10:02:38 allow preying on our children, defiling our young men

10:02:44 and women, proliferating this kind of perversion, in my

10:02:53 opinion is irresponsible.

10:02:55 Giving opportunity to sex offenders, to molest our

10:03:00 children, sex offenders, crossing the line back and

10:03:05 forth at their convenience, getting up in the morning

10:03:09 and deciding that they don't want to be a male or a

10:03:13 female or deciding that they want to be one or the

10:03:17 other.

10:03:18 I think that the attorneys spoke earlier talked about




10:03:24 based upon reproduce I've Morgans that that is covered.

10:03:29 We understand that.

10:03:29 (Bell sounds)

10:03:31 Sexual predators have to register.

10:03:34 >> Thank you, Dr. Favorite.

10:03:39 Next speaker.

10:03:39 >> My name is Martha Clark, 7906 tangerine drive,

10:03:47 Tampa, Florida.

10:03:48 I don't represent any group here today.

10:03:51 I read the article in the paper yesterday.

10:03:53 And because of my faith and my belief that this had

10:03:56 does enhance our core values, I knew I had to come.

10:04:01 I come as a Christian, attempting to live a Christ life

10:04:06 and a woman who was married for 30 years to a Methodist

10:04:09 clergyman who finally came out as homosexual.

10:04:12 My Christian faith is based on the Bible as the word of

10:04:15 God of love.

10:04:16 And I choose to read the Bible as God's message of love

10:04:20 to all people.

10:04:22 Because of my understanding of God, I do not choose to

10:04:25 pick out selected Bible verses that support my human

10:04:28 beliefs and prejudices.




10:04:30 I agree with former president Franklin D. Roosevelt

10:04:34 that there's nothing to fear but fear itself.

10:04:37 And I regret seeing the potential fearsome issues being

10:04:40 raised as a major reason to vote against this issue.

10:04:44 My pastor said when I told him I was going to do this,

10:04:47 my pastor said he didn't see how any group could deny

10:04:51 any person or child of God, legal and human rights,

10:04:54 that are offered to others.

10:04:56 I come as a woman who came to understand the deep

10:04:59 suffering of homosexuals and others dealing that gender

10:05:04 value experience because of the way others treats judge

10:05:06 them and tree them after my husband came out I went

10:05:10 with him to the metropolitan community church to social

10:05:12 gatherings and eventually when he found his partner and

10:05:15 soulmate I spent time with them both.

10:05:17 After I married again, my second husband and I have

10:05:21 visited with them and went together to my first

10:05:23 husband's memorial service.

10:05:25 He was 85 when he died in June.

10:05:28 I am honoring him by writing a book God has long called

10:05:32 me to write.

10:05:33 It will be called "love never fails, everyone when you




10:05:36 learn your husband is gay."

10:05:39 [ Laughter ]

10:05:40 I honor him and the struggles he has gone through by

10:05:43 speaking today on behalf of this measure and I applaud

10:05:47 you for your decision.

10:05:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

10:05:53 >> My name is Terri temple.

10:05:57 I live at 2312 cherry ridge lane in Brandon.

10:06:01 I'm president of communities council, a local

10:06:04 organization that promotes Judeo Christian values in

10:06:08 our community throughout the Tampa Bay area.

10:06:09 And I have three points I would like to make quickly.

10:06:12 First, this is about discrimination.

10:06:15 If you pass this ordinance, then you will be

10:06:18 discriminating against me and against Christian people

10:06:21 who believe the Bible means what it says

10:06:28 The Bible also says that we are supposed to love --

10:06:32 Hold it one second.

10:06:33 Again I will not tolerate any outburst or any clapping.

10:06:36 This is a public hearing.

10:06:38 Please.

10:06:40 Respect these chambers.




10:06:41 Thank you.

10:06:41 >> It is my -- is my time reset?

10:06:46 >> Yes.

10:06:46 >> The Bible says that we are to love one other, and we

10:06:50 do love one another.

10:06:52 But the Bible also says that as Christians we are not

10:06:56 supposed to promote behavior that the Bible definitely

10:07:00 says is wrong, that will separate people from God.

10:07:02 We are supposed to do all that we can do to introduce

10:07:05 people to Jesus Christ because it's only through a

10:07:07 personal relationship with him that people can truly be

10:07:10 changed.

10:07:14 If you pass this ordinance, you will also be raising

10:07:17 the decision that a person makes as to whether or not

10:07:20 surgery on sexual organs elevates them in terms of the

10:07:25 law to that same consideration that you would have for

10:07:29 national origin, color of skin, age, disability,

10:07:35 marital status, or religion.

10:07:38 And also I would urge you to consider the unpossible

10:07:41 unintended consequences if you do pass this.

10:07:45 I've heard the city attorney say that this would only

10:07:47 cover people who were in the process of sexual surgery,




10:07:53 exactly what that is, or who already had it happen.

10:07:57 If that's the case, if that's really the desire of the

10:08:00 city to pass this ordinance with that meaning, then the

10:08:04 ordinance should say that.

10:08:05 It should be very clear.

10:08:08 It's obvious from the amount of litigation that has

10:08:10 come from other human rights ordinances inclusions of

10:08:15 sexual orientation an transgenderism that if you leave

10:08:19 any possible ambiguity in the way the ordinance is

10:08:22 written, you will be inviting lawsuits, then it will be

10:08:26 decided by the courts and not by you all.

10:08:29 Thank you very much.

10:08:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

10:08:32 Next speaker.

10:08:32 >> Ladies and gentlemen of the council, my name is Nick

10:08:38 Korous. I work in the Westshore district.

10:08:43 I represent Blue Cross Blue Shield.

10:08:46 Since 2007 Blue Cross Blue Shield of Florida

10:08:48 implemented gender expression identity to its equal

10:08:52 employment opportunity policies and procedures.

10:08:54 We are joined by approximately 20 other companies doing

10:08:57 business here in the Tampa Bay area that have gender




10:09:01 identity and expression inclusive anti-discrimination

10:09:04 policies in place.

10:09:05 Many of these companies doing business in Tampa

10:09:07 contribute substantially to our local economy.

10:09:10 They employ very conservatively, at least 10,000 or

10:09:13 more individuals in Tampa and the bay area and across

10:09:16 our state.

10:09:17 The majority of these are well-known fortune 500

10:09:20 companies.

10:09:20 They include Ameriprise and Bank of America, Barnes and

10:09:25 Nobel, Best Buy, Deloitte and Touche, Ernst & Young, JP

10:09:28 Morgan Chase, KPMG, Marriott, Microsoft, Nielsen Media,

10:09:33 Price Waterhouse Coopers, Raymond James, Raytheon, and

10:09:38 others.

10:09:38 In fact hundreds of companies have enacted policies to

10:09:41 protect lesbians, gay, bisexual transgender employees.

10:09:46 According to the HRC, as of September 2009, 343, that's

10:09:50 87% of Fortune 500 companies, had implemented

10:09:54 nondiscrimination policies that include sexual

10:09:54 orientation, and 207, that is 41%, had policies that

10:09:59 include gender identity.

10:10:01 But let's bring the discussion back to Tampa and the




10:10:03 bay area.

10:10:05 A number of the companies I mentioned before are also

10:10:07 charter members of the Tampa Bay Out and Equal

10:10:09 affiliate.

10:10:10 The Tampa Bay Out and Equal affiliate was founded March

10:10:13 of this year.

10:10:14 Our mission is simple, to educate and empower

10:10:17 individuals and organizations through programs and

10:10:19 services that result in equal policies, opportunities,

10:10:22 practices, and benefits in the workplace, regardless of

10:10:25 sexual orientation and gender identity of expression.

10:10:29 We are the first affiliate in the State of Florida, and

10:10:32 only the second affiliate in the southeast besides

10:10:35 Atlanta.

10:10:35 Our founding member organizations strive to create

10:10:40 equitable workplaces for all of their employees.

10:10:43 The member organizations include Blue Cross Blue

10:10:44 Shield, JP Morgan Chase, Raymond James,

10:10:48 Pricewaterhouse, Verizon, and Tropicana.

10:10:52 In closing let me mention here that the media has

10:10:55 reported the house Democrats on the education and labor

10:10:57 committee appear united in favor of passage of the




10:10:59 Employment Nondiscrimination Act, ENDA.

10:11:03 This bill has the support of a number of House

10:11:05 Republicans as well.

10:11:06 And it would prohibit --

10:11:08 (Bell sounds)

10:11:09 Thank you.

10:11:09 >> Thank you, sir.

10:11:10 Next speaker.

10:11:11 >> Good morning.

10:11:14 My name is Tony Smart.

10:11:16 I reside at 10213 west fourth court, Tampa, Florida,

10:11:21 the pastor of victory Baptist church.

10:11:23 Regarding extending privileges to transgender and

10:11:29 transsexuals to parade what many in the community would

10:11:33 consider to be abhorrent behavior.

10:11:36 It should be noted that such behavior is a choice that

10:11:39 runs contrary to the norms that have been established

10:11:43 over the course of 5,000 years of human civilization.

10:11:48 The Lord Jesus Christ recognizes two genders, male and

10:11:53 female.

10:11:55 Where is the concern for the safety of the children

10:11:58 that will be adversely affected by this ordinance?




10:12:02 Where is your conscience in terms of supporting common

10:12:06 decency and morality for your citizens?

10:12:09 Who gave the authorities for the -- the civil authority

10:12:14 the right to legitimize abhorrent and perverse behavior

10:12:20 on the rest of society?

10:12:21 Before any legislative body would implement policy that

10:12:27 will affect every aspect of society in such an adverse

10:12:30 and possibly negative manner, they should submit to it

10:12:33 to a local referendum. Let the people decide. Submit

10:12:37 it to the citizenry. Let them decide if they want this

10:12:40 ordinance.

10:12:41 If you do this, on your own, and establish public

10:12:45 policy, what is obviously a moral choice, then you will

10:12:48 actually overstep your responsibilities and authority

10:12:53 as an elected body representing the people.

10:12:55 And if you do this, then God and history will judge you

10:12:58 for calling evil good.

10:13:01 Thank you very much.

10:13:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

10:13:03 Next speaker.

10:13:03 >> My name is Stephanie Nichols. I live at 116114

10:13:12 Gardendale Avenue in Tampa.




10:13:16 My name is Stephanie Nichols and I own my own home in

10:13:20 Tampa.

10:13:20 I live full time as you see me today.

10:13:22 I may not fit the cookie cutter of a man or woman but

10:13:26 no one is perfect.

10:13:26 I'm here today to speak in favor of the proposed human

10:13:29 rights ordinance amendment.

10:13:30 Passage of the amendment would greatly help my sisters

10:13:33 and brothers who are transitioning or plan on

10:13:36 transitioning in the future.

10:13:38 It's in a piece of cake to go and ostracize one's self.

10:13:43 We may appear queer but believe me it's not

10:13:46 intentional.

10:13:47 Most transgendered people seek to become stealth in

10:13:51 their presentation.

10:13:53 Being in this protected class would help tremendously.

10:14:00 When we transition we lose so much.

10:14:02 We lose friends, families, co-workers, camaraderie,

10:14:05 transitioning is an emotional roller coaster.

10:14:08 No one during this rocky period as evidently seen by

10:14:13 the former manager of Largo.

10:14:16 As a member of this sorority I personally know at least




10:14:19 is a girls whose employers have found ways to dismiss

10:14:23 them when ultimately it's because they didn't want to

10:14:25 deal with the situation.

10:14:26 Don't get me wrong.

10:14:27 On the other hand, you may be surprised how many

10:14:29 sisters that you may be working with without suspecting

10:14:34 it.

10:14:34 Our ultimate goal is to correct a personal wrong.

10:14:37 We don't want to force ourselves on anyone.

10:14:39 This amendment should have zero cost on government.

10:14:41 We want to be good neighbors.

10:14:43 We are more tentative of you than you of us.

10:14:48 With the bathroom issues, my experiences when my mother

10:14:52 called me "dad" in the ladies' room.

10:14:54 You could hear a pin drop.

10:14:57 Intelligent people work through bathroom issues,

10:14:59 though. Some solutions have been fair and others not

10:15:02 well thought, I think.

10:15:04 At your previous meeting I see you were discussing

10:15:06 those who could financially afford a sex change

10:15:10 operation that would be the basis for your protection.

10:15:12 I believe this is wrong.




10:15:14 Some of the most beautiful transgendered girls I know

10:15:17 who are assets to employers have not been able to

10:15:22 afford the so-called bottom surgery. Sometimes it's

10:15:25 better not to legislate in certain areas.

10:15:27 I guess the bottom line for me is that by passing this

10:15:31 amendment it's fair and it's the right thing to do.

10:15:34 Thank you.

10:15:35 If you have any questions I would be happy to use up my

10:15:37 remaining minutes.

10:15:40 Thank you very much.

10:15:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

10:15:42 >> Good morning.

10:15:49 I'm pastor Bob Gustafson, I'm the president of the

10:15:52 Hillsborough County Christian educators association.

10:15:56 I'm really here today more than anything to represent

10:16:01 children.

10:16:01 We are involved in educating children and schools and

10:16:04 preschool programs.

10:16:07 And my great concern is the images being put forward to

10:16:11 children.

10:16:12 We are living in a culture today that's in crisis.

10:16:16 We have so many children that have tremendous




10:16:19 difficulty in their families, with divorce, with so

10:16:22 many parents struggling.

10:16:25 We have got kids today that are looking for role

10:16:27 models.

10:16:28 They are looking for images.

10:16:30 And I believe biblically God has established a very

10:16:34 powerful image, he created man and woman.

10:16:37 He wants us to represent ourselves properly in the

10:16:41 presence of these children.

10:16:42 And I believe so much that we have got to project those

10:16:48 models that God has established in his word.

10:16:52 I work with kids all the time, and I can say that the

10:16:55 crisis that I see, the struggle that I see, trying to

10:16:59 understand where they are, who they should be.

10:17:04 We have got to project to these children strong

10:17:07 Biblical images.

10:17:08 We have got to encourage them to do what's right.

10:17:11 And I believe today we have got children that don't

10:17:13 know who and what they are anymore.

10:17:15 Because the images being projected by our culture are

10:17:19 really confusing our children.

10:17:21 Destroying their heart and mind.




10:17:22 And I believe so much that we have got to stand and

10:17:25 help these kids.

10:17:27 I believe what is being proposed today is more that

10:17:31 will hurt their heart and mind, that will confuse them

10:17:35 even further, because I believe the Biblical role

10:17:39 models are the ones God has given to us, and we must

10:17:42 project them, and the hearts and minds of our children.

10:17:45 You know, I pray that when it's all said and done we

10:17:49 might consider the children more than anyone here

10:17:51 today.

10:17:51 We are all adults.

10:17:54 I believe the children are the ones that he would ought

10:17:55 to look at, we ought to care for, and what you do today

10:17:59 will have a tremendous impact towards the children in

10:18:06 our county, in our city, in our nation.

10:18:08 Thank you.

10:18:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

10:18:11 Next speaker.

10:18:11 >>> Good morning.

10:18:15 My name is Beth Shimko, the distribution manager for

10:18:20 Frito Lay, a division of Pepsico.

10:18:23 I have been in my position for ten years, began as a




10:18:25 route sales driver and worked my way up through the

10:18:27 company through a nonprofit.

10:18:28 I have been given every opportunity to succeed within

10:18:31 my organization, not because of or in spite of my

10:18:34 gender, my sexual orientation, religion, or color.

10:18:38 But because Frito Lay fosters hard work and dedication

10:18:42 and above all else has gone above and beyond to make

10:18:44 sure that their employees are judged by merit, not by

10:18:47 prejudice.

10:18:49 Pepsico demonstrates the value that I believe makes

10:18:52 them the industry leader. Reflective of these ideas,

10:18:54 our CEO Indra Nooyi, personally signs off on all

10:19:04 diversity issues.

10:19:05 From her own words, she will make sure that we have an

10:19:07 environment where every employee can bring the whole

10:19:11 self to work.

10:19:12 She meets regularly with employee resource groups from

10:19:14 around the world, and she holds her direct reports

10:19:18 accountable for diversity goals.

10:19:20 Not only I do believe this is the right thing to do,

10:19:22 but it makes sound economic business sense.

10:19:25 Pepsico is dedicated to hiring and promoting the best




10:19:29 people available.

10:19:30 In order to do this, making inclusivity a part of our

10:19:33 culture is paramount.

10:19:35 In doing so, the best and the brightest will be

10:19:37 attracted, not only to its successful fortune 500

10:19:41 company, but they will be confronted by the assurance

10:19:43 of a workplace that makes their employees feel safe,

10:19:47 expected and valued.

10:19:48 They will be happy and more productive without fear of

10:19:50 discrimination and thereby be motivated and empowered

10:19:54 to work hard and to bring the best.

10:19:59 They will also be assured growth and promotion

10:20:01 throughout hard work and determination knowing that

10:20:03 they are protected from discrimination and prejudice.

10:20:07 I am very proud to be associated and employed by

10:20:10 Pepsico.

10:20:11 The culture of our organization is one where we truly

10:20:13 are a team.

10:20:14 This could not be the case if we did not foster

10:20:17 inclusive and respect for the individuals that make up

10:20:20 our team.

10:20:21 I am certain that this is the core of our success.




10:20:25 I am certain that this is the core of our success at

10:20:28 Pepsico, and to take it a step further I believe that

10:20:31 it is the core of our success as a country, a state, a

10:20:34 city and a town.

10:20:35 The whole is much stronger than the sum of its parts.

10:20:38 As people we need to come together as one, rid

10:20:41 discrimination everywhere.

10:20:42 Each company, city, town, state, joins in the belief --

10:20:47 (Bell sounds).

10:20:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

10:20:48 Next speaker.

10:20:49 >> Good morning.

10:20:54 Stacie Overstreet, 10718 -- Riverview.

10:20:59 I'm here today because the ordinance is not clear.

10:21:03 If you don't specify -- I'm hearing Frito Lay is a good

10:21:10 company, the Bible says love, Jesus, if we are going to

10:21:13 quote the Bible, absolutely, God claims a man sleeping

10:21:17 with a man is an a domination, a woman sleeping with an

10:21:20 A woman is an abomination.

10:21:22 It even goes on to say they should be put to death.

10:21:24 So God is a love of love but he's also a God of order

10:21:28 and structure.




10:21:28 And our children are being victimized.

10:21:33 Itch an eleven-year-old daughter, a 16-year-old son,

10:21:35 and a 14-year-old daughter.

10:21:39 If a man walks in the bathroom where my daughter is

10:21:42 using the bathroom, we are going to have a problem.

10:21:45 And I'm not saying that perverts are all homosexuals.

10:21:50 There are straight perverts.

10:21:51 But it makes it very, very unclear to distinguish if we

10:21:56 are saying that when you wake up, you can decide,

10:21:59 because the ordinance says you can decide if you are a

10:22:02 man today or a woman today.

10:22:04 We are not discriminating against homosexuals using the

10:22:09 restroom.

10:22:09 They can use the restroom.

10:22:10 Go into the male restroom.

10:22:12 If you have a Y chromosome in your body you are a man.

10:22:16 Go into the men's restroom.

10:22:18 Go into the woman's restroom.

10:22:21 As an African-American, I'm insulted every single time

10:22:25 I hear "civil rights."

10:22:28 I didn't have a choice.

10:22:29 I was born black.




10:22:31 Not very dark skin, but I was born black.

10:22:34 And if I had shown up in southern Mississippi or Money

10:22:40 Mississippi, like Emmitt Till, and use my northern

10:22:43 ways, I may not have been here.

10:22:46 But that was a choice for individuals.

10:22:50 You can snicker.

10:22:51 It's a choice.

10:22:52 God didn't make a mistake.

10:22:54 God does not make mistakes.

10:22:56 When you are born, you are born a man.

10:22:58 That wasn't an accident.

10:22:59 Maybe your testimony could be "I had some struggles, I

10:23:04 sought council, I spoke with my pastor, I spoke with

10:23:08 Christ," and you worked out those issues.

10:23:11 But to now disguise that as a civil rights issue is an

10:23:15 a domination.

10:23:16 I didn't have a choice of this ordinance.

10:23:18 I didn't even know this ordinance was in place until I

10:23:21 went to church last night.

10:23:22 I'm supposed to be at work right now.

10:23:23 (Bell sounds)

10:23:25 I ask that you vote against this ordinance.




10:23:26 >> Thank you.

10:23:28 Next speaker.

10:23:28 >> Good morning, ladies and gentlemen of the Tampa City

10:23:32 Council.

10:23:32 I'm Ted Hower.

10:23:34 I reside at 4618 south Datura Boulevard in Tampa 33601.

10:23:40 I'm here in two capacities. One as the Executive

10:23:42 Director of organizations united together, which is

10:23:46 Florida's federation of local GLBT organizations.

10:23:50 We have memberships from Jacksonville through Key West,

10:23:53 a hundred local organizations and based right here in

10:23:55 Tampa, Florida.

10:23:56 We have many member organizations here in Tampa.

10:23:58 We spoke about equal Tampa Bay, corporate alliance, the

10:24:02 Tampa Bay business gild, also a lot of other

10:24:05 organizations within the Tampa Bay area.

10:24:08 It's important to know that many of these corporate

10:24:10 organizations and businesses have incorporated, and we

10:24:13 heard all the numbers.

10:24:14 A lot of those folks, a lot of those corporations are

10:24:17 here in the Tampa Bay area.

10:24:18 There are 17 municipalities across the State of Florida




10:24:21 who have incorporated these as well as over 100 cities

10:24:24 across the country.

10:24:26 I'm also here as a business person for 20 years.

10:24:29 I was a corporate leader with Raymond James, Verizon,

10:24:32 sage software and Publix.

10:24:34 And we had changes through our different corporations

10:24:37 including Raymond James, which is part of the unequal

10:24:42 network to include gender expression, and not only are

10:24:46 human rights respect, but also it is really smart

10:24:48 business to show the rest of the state and the rest of

10:24:51 this great country that we are inclusive in accepting

10:24:54 of every citizen.

10:24:55 Thank you.

10:24:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

10:24:58 Next speaker.

10:24:58 >> Good morning ladies and gentlemen of City Council.

10:25:04 My name is reverend Clarence -- a member of pastors on

10:25:08 patrol, address 1006 West Cypress street.

10:25:12 I'm also assistant pastor at Beulah Baptist church.

10:25:16 I am a citizen of the City of Tampa.

10:25:18 I was born and raised here in Tampa.

10:25:21 I lived in Tampa during the time of discrimination,




10:25:24 segregation, was a product of the civil rights

10:25:27 movement.

10:25:28 And now we are coming.

10:25:31 And when we had to come against civil rights, when we

10:25:34 had to deal with the discrimination and try to break

10:25:37 this barrier, we had to produce tons and tons of

10:25:42 documented stuff that had occurred, not word of mouth

10:25:46 things like we are hearing here today.

10:25:48 I heard a number of people come in and say that this

10:25:50 person was discriminated against, this person was

10:25:53 discriminated against, I lost this many jobs.

10:25:56 Where is the documentation?

10:25:58 Where is the proof that everyone else has had to bring

10:26:01 to the table to demonstrate that you were discriminated

10:26:05 against?

10:26:06 Stop hiding these things under civil rights, because it

10:26:08 is not a civil rights issue.

10:26:11 And we need to deal with it.

10:26:13 Ladies and gentlemen of council, we are in a voting

10:26:16 year coming up here, and the city is watching.

10:26:19 You need to be careful as to what you do and how you

10:26:22 deal with this legislation.




10:26:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

10:26:26 >> My name is Frank Roder, 908 east Louisiana Avenue in

10:26:33 Tampa.

10:26:33 And I was raised and born a Christian and still follow

10:26:36 the Christian beliefs.

10:26:38 Two weeks ago, I sat in these chambers beaming with

10:26:41 pride and the forward thinking of Tampa City Council to

10:26:44 expand Tampa's human ordinance to include gender

10:26:47 identity and expression.

10:26:48 I'm presently serving in my third term on City of Tampa

10:26:51 human rights board and I serve as vice chair.

10:26:55 Under these protections for gender was not a decision

10:26:57 that was quickly made.

10:26:58 Over the last 15 months, we closely looked at the

10:27:01 impact that this change in law would have to the City

10:27:04 of Tampa.

10:27:05 We closely watched the debate in Gainesville when they

10:27:07 added gender identity expression to their human rights

10:27:09 ordinance.

10:27:10 We heard the scare tactics used there to try to

10:27:13 overturn the law.

10:27:14 These are the same scare tactics that are being used




10:27:16 here again today.

10:27:18 Thankfully the citizens of Gainesville saw through

10:27:20 these false claims and voted to keep gender identity

10:27:23 expression in the city ordinance.

10:27:25 This change of Tampa's human rights ordinance is not

10:27:28 anti-Christian.

10:27:29 It is promoted as a progressive city that is free of

10:27:33 discrimination.

10:27:34 It is simply matter of fairness and justice for all.

10:27:37 This measure shows that Tampa is a city for existing

10:27:40 and new businesses that are considering relocating to

10:27:42 Tampa.

10:27:43 The measure also adds equal protections to qualified

10:27:46 employees in a city from being unfairly fired.

10:27:49 This is not special rights.

10:27:50 This is equal rights.

10:27:52 With this in mind, I couldn't be more proud to live in

10:27:56 a city that believes in protecting all of its citizens

10:27:59 equally.

10:27:59 Our City Council sent a clear and strong message that

10:28:02 discrimination in the workplace is not acceptable.

10:28:04 I commend the City Council for upholding the value of




10:28:07 all Americans of any race whether male or female,

10:28:09 Christian, nonChristian, disabled, gay or transgendered

10:28:14 deserves equal protection in the workplace.

10:28:16 Thank you, members of council.

10:28:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

10:28:18 Thank you.

10:28:19 Next speaker.

10:28:20 >> Good morning.

10:28:23 My name is TARA Fechtal, an 18-year-old senior in high

10:28:32 school, and when I learned of this issue, I thought,

10:28:34 you know what?

10:28:35 There's some issues that you have to pick and choose

10:28:37 your cause but I was really drawn to this one to speak

10:28:40 because I recognized what an impact this could have if

10:28:43 enacted.

10:28:44 As council members I beg you to understand what this

10:28:46 could lead to, if you enact -- if you make the

10:28:49 modifications, maybe it will solve some problems in the

10:28:52 workplace, maybe it will not add as much difficult, but

10:28:55 you really see what this could lead to?

10:28:58 Is this really a matter of discrimination?

10:29:00 Or is this really something that's attacking the




10:29:02 fundamental values of America, the fundamental values

10:29:06 that are presented even nationally and also down to our

10:29:08 city level?

10:29:09 You as council members, you are sworn in, you are to

10:29:12 protect that.

10:29:13 And as we heard about civil rights and stuff like that,

10:29:17 but say the civil rights activist Martin Luther King,

10:29:21 someone you really look up and we respect that his view

10:29:24 on civil rights, but yet strong values that he based

10:29:27 those on.

10:29:27 Now, this amendment to the rights, are we really

10:29:33 considering what values is this modification based on?

10:29:36 Are we going to undermine those or uphold those?

10:29:39 And when I thought of this expression, it kind of made

10:29:42 me think of how this modification of the rights is

10:29:45 really putting a lot onto the whole feeling thing.

10:29:48 We try to be concrete in a lot of our laws and a lot of

10:29:51 our policies and having.

10:29:52 But this is kind of sending -- something that's so

10:29:55 ambiguous that it's hard to draw a line.

10:29:58 Rights is sort of a delicate issue.

10:29:59 And so this logic, taking this, you know, ways of




10:30:05 presenting things to modify our rights, if I was to

10:30:07 consider myself a dog and I felt like I was a dog and a

10:30:12 I believed I was a dog with all my heart, would that

10:30:15 give me the right to go to the bathroom in the front

10:30:21 yard?

10:30:21 You know what I mean?

10:30:23 You see where this can lead, if people think that they

10:30:25 are not -- they are obviously a male.

10:30:27 If they think -- if they are documented as a male, if

10:30:31 they think they are something else.

10:30:33 Yes, they can apply to have their rights modified.

10:30:36 But what does that stop someone from thinking they are

10:30:38 a dog?

10:30:40 Two years from now, are we going to come here and have

10:30:43 people thinking that they are dogs, to modify their

10:30:46 rights?

10:30:46 I don't want to compare people to dogs.

10:30:48 I'm not trying to disrespect them in that way.

10:30:50 But please understand what this can lead to.

10:30:53 Thank you.

10:30:54 (Bell sounds).

10:30:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, next speaker.




10:31:03 >> My name is freed, 2907 west San Rafael in the great

10:31:09 City of Tampa, which -- I'm sorry, I was a little taken

10:31:14 aback by the dog scenario but I'll get myself to the

10:31:16 point.

10:31:17 This is a fair, just and right thing to do to protect

10:31:21 all citizens in our great city.

10:31:24 Tampa has been one to embrace and include everyone, and

10:31:29 it's time that we take that extra step forward, and we

10:31:33 include gender identity and expression.

10:31:36 It's about discrimination, period.

10:31:41 You can use the Bible.

10:31:42 You can use whatever you want to use.

10:31:44 But as Mr. Scott, I believe, said, it's solely about

10:31:50 discrimination.

10:31:51 Tampa needs to stand strong.

10:31:52 I would ask the City Council or members to stand

10:31:55 strong.

10:31:56 This is what it's all about, discrimination and the

10:31:59 workplace, accommodations, housing, Tampa is no

10:32:03 place -- is not the city that we want for people to

10:32:07 associate the word discrimination with.

10:32:10 It's a horrible word no matter what your race, color,




10:32:14 ethnicity.

10:32:16 It's a terrible word.

10:32:17 No one should be discriminated against.

10:32:19 And Tampa needs to step up to do that.

10:32:21 I would ask that you all stand strong to your beliefs

10:32:27 in the discussions that you had the last meeting.

10:32:30 You had a unanimous vote which sent a strong message to

10:32:33 not just the community but the country that Tampa

10:32:39 embraces.

10:32:39 It embraces all types of businesses, all types of

10:32:42 employees, come to Tampa, help our economy.

10:32:45 We need you.

10:32:46 We need to keep the businesses that we had, and we need

10:32:49 to let other businesses know that we are welcoming them

10:32:52 to Tampa.

10:32:53 And we will protect their employees.

10:32:58 As they said with the majority of fortune 500 companies

10:33:01 supporting diversity and protecting all their employees

10:33:04 in the workplace we can ill afford to lose one business

10:33:07 coming to Tampa.

10:33:09 So your decision to vote this measure through is that

10:33:14 step to get a new business to Tampa, which is to help




10:33:17 this economy.

10:33:18 Thank you so kindly for your time.

10:33:20 >> Thank you very much.

10:33:22 Council, it is now 10:30.

10:33:24 What I would like to do in order to continue this

10:33:27 hearing, there are only two items for staff report.

10:33:30 One is the Tampa regional planning relative to the

10:33:35 2012.

10:33:35 Think that's item 15, to our next meeting, and also the

10:33:39 other issue is the diversion program.

10:33:44 I don't know whether we want to continue that to the

10:33:46 next meeting as well.

10:33:47 That will free up another 30 minutes.

10:33:50 And then in the process, we'll have an 11:00 time

10:33:55 certain for the presentation of the transportation

10:34:01 executive report.

10:34:04 If we can push that back 30 minutes to 11:30, that may

10:34:07 help us to free up another hour, to be able to hear the

10:34:12 rest of the speakers.

10:34:13 And try to have discussion.

10:34:15 So we can bring closure on this issue.

10:34:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, based on your remarks




10:34:20 I move for such that.

10:34:21 >> Second.

10:34:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's on item 47 and 45.

10:34:32 And item 45 and 47 be continued to December 3rd.

10:34:35 December 3rd.

10:34:36 Okay?

10:34:38 It has been moved and seconded.

10:34:39 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

10:34:42 Opposes?

10:34:42 Yes, sir.

10:34:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And that is part of the motion to

10:34:46 move item 48 and push that back to 11:30?

10:34:50 >> 11:30.

10:34:51 And if my office can check with the commission office

10:34:55 and see if they can delay for about 30 minutes, that

10:34:58 will help us.

10:34:59 Okay?

10:35:01 While they are doing that we'll continues with this

10:35:03 hearing.

10:35:03 Next speaker.

10:35:08 >> My name is Terry Kemple, 531 east County Line Road.

10:35:14 I'm just curious as to why, I want to understand where




10:35:19 our citizens are not talking about lesbians, homosexual

10:35:24 or even straight, where our people are not protected.

10:35:28 I don't see there being a risk there.

10:35:33 I know they are claiming discrimination.

10:35:34 But I also want to bring to your attention, I did some

10:35:37 research a number of years ago.

10:35:38 I don't have any numbers in front of me.

10:35:40 But when you compare the annual salary of gay and

10:35:46 lesbians and straight, there's a significant higher

10:35:48 percentage of annual income among gay and lesbians over

10:35:54 heterosexuals.

10:35:56 I encourage you to investigate that a little bit.

10:36:00 They have been listing a number of large corporations

10:36:04 that have enacted and have policies that are

10:36:06 nondiscriminatory against gays and lesbians.

10:36:10 What I challenge you guys to do, and ladies, sorry,

10:36:15 challenge you all to do is to investigate what those

10:36:17 policies are.

10:36:19 Are they only to protect against being discriminated

10:36:22 against an employment or an advancement?

10:36:26 Is there a transgender protection?

10:36:29 Is there across-dressing protection at those companies?




10:36:34 That's what I'm curious about.

10:36:35 I'm wondering are we talking about apples and oranges

10:36:37 here?

10:36:39 Are transgendered people allowed to come to work one

10:36:43 day as a female and the next day as a male at Verizon?

10:36:47 Are they allowed to go into the restrooms, a man

10:36:52 dressed as a woman go into the ladies restroom at these

10:36:55 companies?

10:36:56 I don't believe so.

10:36:57 I would challenge you all to investigate what those

10:36:58 policies are and the companies that they have listed

10:37:02 and claim to be those anti-discriminatory policies in a

10:37:07 large corporation.

10:37:08 Because if Tampa adopts this, I cannot in good

10:37:12 conscience allow my daughter to walk into a bathroom

10:37:15 with the risk of a man being in there.

10:37:17 We all know, you all have been to Europe, the bathrooms

10:37:21 are very close, they are all very closed, you can't see

10:37:25 anything.

10:37:25 In the ladies room, I don't know why people design it

10:37:28 this way, the gaps are this huge.

10:37:29 I don't want my daughter sitting on a toilet in a




10:37:31 lady's bathroom and having a man dressed as a woman

10:37:35 walk past the bathroom to see if there are bathroom

10:37:38 stalls available and take a glance at my precious

10:37:40 daughter.

10:37:40 (Bell sounds)

10:37:47 >> My name is Mike Pheneger. I live at 4219 Hollow

10:37:51 Trail Drive in Tampa.

10:37:55 In unincorporated Hillsborough County.

10:37:57 I am here today because I am on the national and state

10:37:59 boards of directors of the American Civil Liberties

10:38:01 Union, a member of a lot of other organizations

10:38:04 including the NAACP, the association of the U.S. Army.

10:38:08 I am a retired Army colonel spending 30 years on active

10:38:11 duty.

10:38:11 Today I'm here particularly as a representative of the

10:38:14 ACLU.

10:38:17 We have had a lot of talk about values today, values of

10:38:22 Christianity, values of our country politically, but

10:38:24 the basic political values that we have in this country

10:38:27 are freedoms and justice and equality.

10:38:31 We didn't start by giving those values to everybody.

10:38:35 It's been a constant -- trying to achieve our best




10:38:40 values.

10:38:41 The transgendered, those who are gender identity and

10:38:44 expression individuals, it's a small class.

10:38:49 If any of you in good conscience can say in this room

10:38:52 or on this council that they are not regularly

10:38:54 discriminated against, I must say that you have your

10:38:57 head in the sand.

10:38:58 There is no absolute Constitutional right for freedom

10:39:01 of expression.

10:39:02 Otherwise, women would still be second class citizens,

10:39:06 blacks would still be second class citizens, gays and

10:39:11 lesbians would still be second class citizens.

10:39:13 What we are trying to do in this change of city

10:39:15 ordinance is to extend the quality and protection to a

10:39:18 class of people who are discriminated against.

10:39:21 We have heard today a litany of horribles, mostly

10:39:24 having to do with what will happen to our children.

10:39:27 The fact of the matter is it's insulting to assume that

10:39:30 these people will in fact be sexual predators or a

10:39:33 danger to children or anybody else.

10:39:36 We all know that most sexual predators are in fact

10:39:39 heterosexual men and women.




10:39:41 We know that because we have good statistical evidence

10:39:44 of it.

10:39:46 They are in our bathrooms all the time.

10:39:49 Today we have a really critical thing.

10:39:52 Several weeks ago, you all voted unanimously based on

10:39:55 your consciences and your ideas of what is right to

10:39:59 vote in favor of this ordinance change.

10:40:02 Today you have a chance to reconsider.

10:40:05 The interesting part about it is, 30 years in the Army,

10:40:08 I saw many issues where you had examples of physical

10:40:12 courage.

10:40:13 Today you are being asked to show moral courage, to say

10:40:17 that this is a right thing that you did, and it's a

10:40:20 right thing that you need to continue.

10:40:22 Thank you.

10:40:22 (Bell sounds)

10:40:28 >> Hello.

10:40:29 My name is Donna Kent.

10:40:31 My husband is retired from the military.

10:40:33 My son just got back from Iraq.

10:40:35 We love our country.

10:40:37 We took retirement here 14 years ago and we are now




10:40:40 full-time work with child evangelism fellowship.

10:40:44 This ordinance will not make it safer, happier or

10:40:48 increase morality.

10:40:49 It is clearly deviant behavior which is costly,

10:40:54 dangerous and immoral.

10:40:55 The Bible says that God loves us with an every lasting

10:40:59 love.

10:41:00 He willingly sent his son Jesus to die on the cross to

10:41:03 pay for the sins so that we can have eternal life if we

10:41:06 put our faith and trust in him.

10:41:08 The says he came not to condemn the world but the world

10:41:14 through him might be saved.

10:41:15 But he does talk twice as much about hell as he does

10:41:18 heaven as a warning.

10:41:19 And the Bible says talking about, let me read it to

10:41:21 you, it says against evil and wrong things that people

10:41:27 do.

10:41:28 By their own evil life they hide the truth.

10:41:32 And because the knowledge of him has been made clear to

10:41:35 him.

10:41:37 But because they did these things, God left them and

10:41:40 let them go their own sinful way, wanting only to do




10:41:44 evil, as a result they become full of sexual sin, using

10:41:47 their bodies wrongly with each other.

10:41:48 They traded the truth of God for a lie, worshipped and

10:41:53 served that which was created instead of the God who

10:41:56 created those things who should be praised forever,

10:41:58 amen.

10:41:58 Because people did those things, God left them and he

10:42:02 let them do shameful things they wanted to do.

10:42:04 And women stopped having natural sex and started having

10:42:07 sex with other women.

10:42:08 In the same way men stopped having natural sex and

10:42:11 began wanting each other.

10:42:12 Men did shameful things with other men, and in their

10:42:15 bodies they received the punishment of those things.

10:42:18 Now that is what the Bible says.

10:42:20 We came here to do children's work.

10:42:23 We have to be very careful on our computer that pops up

10:42:26 a sexual predator has moved in close around your

10:42:29 neighborhood.

10:42:29 Right now if you pass this, any one of the sexual

10:42:34 predators are having a party because they can be able

10:42:37 to have access to whichever gender of our children that




10:42:40 they choose with this ordinance.

10:42:43 I have children.

10:42:44 They are grown.

10:42:44 I have grandchildren that I care about.

10:42:47 If you pass this, you are giving credibility and

10:42:50 recognition to a behavior that is sinful, and it leads

10:42:54 to punishment.

10:42:56 This is not what I came to Tampa for.

10:42:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you put your address on the

10:43:01 record?

10:43:02 >> 2408 Blind Hunt.

10:43:04 Thank you.

10:43:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.

10:43:05 >> My name is Harry Shervase in the USF area.

10:43:22 Stated as being a moral long wrong issue, because the

10:43:35 fetus are identical.

10:43:40 Until the penis developed on the male.

10:43:44 And

10:43:57 When a child is grown up, the male body, and scans all

10:44:11 brains stating that someone was across gender, and sex

10:44:18 changes, that their brains of a male body to a female,

10:44:24 and got the brain of a man.




10:44:33 It's the truth of the

10:44:36 You don't go on the Bible only.

10:44:41 And

10:44:43 >> Wimauma, Florida.

10:45:10 I represent faith tabernacle assembly of God on inner

10:45:13 bay.

10:45:14 What the whole purpose of me being here today is I did

10:45:17 not know about none of this, and none of our church

10:45:20 members did till we read it in the paper yesterday

10:45:23 morning.

10:45:24 And I look up there and you all know that this is just

10:45:29 plain wrong.

10:45:32 We had prayer before we started this service.

10:45:36 We pledged allegiance to the flag, one nation under

10:45:39 God.

10:45:40 Every one of you believe in God.

10:45:42 And you know that if you have ever read your Bible, God

10:45:46 does not approve of this.

10:45:47 And they -- you do not have any approval to try to push

10:45:52 something like this over on people that will make it so

10:45:56 easy to be taken advantage of.

10:46:01 All the remarks that have been made about the bathrooms




10:46:03 and all of this.

10:46:04 Now that when you give them a crack they will open the

10:46:07 door a mile.

10:46:08 So that just gives people more than opportunity to have

10:46:13 the law behind them.

10:46:14 And I'm opposed to it.

10:46:15 Thank you.

10:46:22 >> My name is Michael Gee. My address is 56 E street,

10:46:27 Madeira Beach, Florida.

10:46:28 I lived in Tampa for 40 years until I moved to Pinellas

10:46:31 this past year.

10:46:32 Honorable council members, I am Executive Director of

10:46:34 the Florida organization for gender equality.

10:46:37 And I am a female to male transsexual.

10:46:40 The mission is to educate and advocate for issues

10:46:44 related to gender identity.

10:46:46 I want to thank you today on behalf of my organization

10:46:48 for your service to the City of Tampa and your open

10:46:52 minded and intelligent review of adding gender identity

10:46:55 to this Tampa human rights ordinance.

10:46:57 Tomorrow is the 11th annual transgender day of

10:47:01 remembrance and around the world vigilance will be held




10:47:05 to memorialize transgendered people who died a violet

10:47:10 death, also by the violence of neglect, neglect in the

10:47:15 form of being refused medical treatment for illness and

10:47:17 accidents, neglect in the form of being denied adequate

10:47:19 housing, neglect in the form of being denied access to

10:47:22 homeless shelters.

10:47:25 I can promise you today, I did not choose this.

10:47:29 I can promise you today that I have no sexual interest

10:47:31 in children nor the bathroom habits of anyone.

10:47:35 I urge you to continue in your direction that you took

10:47:39 with a preliminary vote and prohibit discrimination

10:47:41 based on gender identity and employment housing and

10:47:44 accommodation.

10:47:45 Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today.

10:47:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

10:47:49 Next speaker.

10:47:49 >> Good morning.

10:47:57 I am Howard Ingraham from Wimauma, Florida, also,

10:48:01 affiliated with the church of God.

10:48:04 And I would just like to say that I believe every word

10:48:07 in the Bible, and the lady just read the scripture,

10:48:10 Romans, but there's something else that I'm really




10:48:15 concerned about.

10:48:15 There's a lot of men, homosexuals or bisexual so I

10:48:26 think you have opened up another program that you might

10:48:27 not have thought about.

10:48:29 And I have got six little grandkids.

10:48:31 I have -- or great grandkids.

10:48:34 I'm 78 years old, by the way.

10:48:36 And I got six great grandkids.

10:48:39 Three little girls and three little boys.

10:48:41 And I'm totally concerned, not only about these people,

10:48:44 about the other people that take advantage of that,

10:48:47 because I have been around.

10:48:50 I have been 46 years and met all kinds and have met

10:48:54 people that do that.

10:48:57 Thank you very much.

10:48:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

10:49:00 >> Good morning, council.

10:49:06 Thank you for letting me speak.

10:49:07 My name is Michelle Kenoyer, and I live at 8511

10:49:11 quarterhorse drive in Riverview.

10:49:13 I would like to thank the council for their vote in

10:49:15 support of workplace equality.




10:49:17 And I would like to call upon you to stay strong in

10:49:19 your commitment to protecting the rights of our fellow

10:49:21 Tampa area citizens.

10:49:25 I think it's the right thing, a just think, and the

10:49:29 fair thing to do.

10:49:32 I have also been hearing a lot of concerns about the

10:49:35 safety and the values of our children.

10:49:39 Just to share a personal note with you, my husband and

10:49:41 I recently adopted two children out of the foster care

10:49:45 system.

10:49:45 We care about their safety and values as well.

10:49:49 We also wants to teach them the value of not

10:49:52 discriminating against people just because they are

10:49:55 different from them.

10:49:56 We want them to grow up to treat everybody as equals.

10:50:00 We want them to treat all people, all a Americans,

10:50:03 everybody and every country as human beings.

10:50:06 Thank you very much.

10:50:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

10:50:10 Next speakers.

10:50:10 >> My name is Clarence Nather prodder, 1709 east

10:50:23 Quonsetta Avenue.




10:50:27 I have been a citizen of the City of Tampa my lifetime.

10:50:30 I won't tell you how old I am.

10:50:31 You can look at me and probably tell that.

10:50:34 But I'm here today to voice my opposition to this.

10:50:37 I've heard many, many people get up and give good

10:50:41 presentations.

10:50:45 What it all boils down to is protection of privacy

10:50:52 while you are in a restroom.

10:50:53 If you are going to do this, and I hope and pray to God

10:50:57 you won't, to make those bathrooms totally enclosed

10:51:03 separate, not so that they have stalls in them.

10:51:06 I don't want my grandchildren going in them.

10:51:08 I don't want my wife going in them.

10:51:11 I don't want to go in them.

10:51:12 So I'm not going to tell you I represent a large

10:51:15 organization.

10:51:17 I am a Christian.

10:51:20 And this is a conviction in me.

10:51:24 It's based on what the Bible says.

10:51:25 I'm not going to read it to you.

10:51:28 Other people read the Bible and I think they covered

10:51:30 that quite well.




10:51:32 But most of my lifetime, I was very proud to be a

10:51:37 citizen of this city.

10:51:40 When you start doing things like this, I'm no longer

10:51:44 proud of it.

10:51:46 It's wrong, morally wrong.

10:51:48 And it's wrong based on my privacy.

10:51:52 And if you start this how are you going to know who is

10:51:56 a transgender?

10:52:00 They are going to lift their dress or pants and that

10:52:05 won't prove anything, unless there's been an operation.

10:52:08 That might prove they had some surgery which still

10:52:11 don't prove anything.

10:52:12 It's wrong.

10:52:14 I'm against it.

10:52:15 And I will not vote for anybody that will vote for

10:52:18 this.

10:52:20 Thank you.

10:52:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

10:52:23 >> My name is June RUDEN, a member of the City of

10:52:34 Tampa.

10:52:35 This isn't promoting, this isn't encouraging.

10:52:38 This is simply tolerance.




10:52:39 When employers look to hire the best, that gives a good

10:52:42 sign that they can do so.

10:52:44 People look at those sort of things.

10:52:46 They are not approving.

10:52:47 They just like tolerance.

10:52:48 That's all it is.

10:52:49 This issue came up a couple months ago.

10:52:51 There was a runner from South Africa.

10:52:54 Her name is Caster Semenya.

10:52:56 She won the world championship gold medal.

10:52:59 And the 100-meter.

10:53:01 It was a controversy over does she have male, part

10:53:05 male, whatever?

10:53:06 The results are supposed to come out tomorrow.

10:53:07 They came out today.

10:53:08 And I am going to read what it says.

10:53:12 Gold medal for the world championships, and as a result

10:53:15 her gender tests will be kept confidential, the South

10:53:17 African sports ministry said Thursday.

10:53:20 Ministry also said in a statement that the

10:53:21 international association of athletic federations has

10:53:24 agreed to allow the 18-year-old Semenya to keep her




10:53:28 prize money, whatever scientific tests were conducted

10:53:32 legally within the IAA athletic regulations will be

10:53:36 treated as confidential matters between a patient and a

10:53:38 doctor.

10:53:38 The sports ministry said.

10:53:41 As such, there will be no public announcement of what

10:53:44 the panel of scientists has found.

10:53:46 We urge all south Africans and other people to respect

10:53:49 the professional, ethical and moral way of doing

10:53:52 things.

10:53:54 People don't choose to do this.

10:53:58 The problem with going through the Bible is everybody

10:54:01 has a different impression of it, other people have

10:54:03 different interpretations of it.

10:54:04 Some people say homosexuals are an abomination, he

10:54:10 should be stoned to death because my Bible says that.

10:54:13 Well, flip the page. The Bible also says you shouldn't

10:54:13 be saying that. This is about tolerance.

10:54:17 That's all this does.

10:54:18 So please vote it through.

10:54:20 Thank you.

10:54:20 >> Thank you.




10:54:21 Next speaker.

10:54:25 >> My name is Kevin Wright, and I'm a small businessman

10:54:28 here in the City of Tampa, and I want to congratulate

10:54:34 what brought us to this point here, because the

10:54:35 policies that are driving this whole thing have been

10:54:38 successful in collapsing the economy.

10:54:42 You people are fiddling while Rome burns.

10:54:46 Why are we bringing this up now?

10:54:47 Small businesses are suffering.

10:54:50 Foreclosures are up.

10:54:50 Unemployment is up.

10:54:51 And this is what we are spending our city time on.

10:54:56 I'm really here on behalf of a good friend of mine.

10:54:58 He was a product of Hillsborough County schools.

10:55:01 I graduated from Ballast Point elementary back in 1967,

10:55:06 and a young person -- it's hard to sort all this out

10:55:11 here, but Dwight Martin was a friend of main.

10:55:14 He was one of those, you talk about the best and the

10:55:16 brightest.

10:55:17 He would have been a great employee for Verizon, or

10:55:20 Raymond James or someplace like that.

10:55:22 I think in 99 he would make a 100.




10:55:26 I would make 97, he would make 98.

10:55:29 We had that sort of competition.

10:55:30 Well, there were a couple of teachers from our high

10:55:32 school, Mr. Canfield and Mr. Alvarez, and they had an

10:55:37 apartment here in South Tampa.

10:55:39 When you are that age and you hear about, hey, there's

10:55:41 a party going on at canfield's house, you know, you

10:55:44 don't know.

10:55:44 You don't know.

10:55:46 I had no idea in my innocence.

10:55:48 But there was a lot of weed smoking, some serious

10:55:52 drinking and ended up puking myself silly in the man's

10:55:55 bathroom, and fortunately I wasn't molested.

10:55:57 I don't think Dwight was that lucky.

10:55:59 You see, Dwight, he never made it.

10:56:03 He passed away.

10:56:04 He died drinking, Mr. Canfield's, Mr. Alvarez.

10:56:13 So I'm here on his behalf today.

10:56:15 And what I can tell you is I have learned in my career,

10:56:18 in school, and my career in business, what you are

10:56:22 doing is self-destructive to our community.

10:56:26 If you want to induce homosexuality into a population




10:56:30 of lab rats, all you have to do is overpopulate them.

10:56:35 What you are doing here, people, is something -- you

10:56:40 are driving us over the cliff.

10:56:42 Now those Levings, when they are going over the cliff

10:56:45 because of overpopulation, they think it's perfectly

10:56:47 nice, perfectly right and perfectly natural for them to

10:56:50 do that.

10:56:52 The truth will set you free.

10:56:54 We don't have to do this.

10:56:56 I'm begging for the innocence of our community.

10:56:58 >> Good morning.

10:57:06 My name is Racquel Rocco Vallerane. My address is 3440

10:57:10 Bainbridge Drive. I'm from Holiday, Florida.

10:57:13 I am not a resident of Tampa.

10:57:16 But I felt compelled to be here today.

10:57:20 It's a great honor that you allow us all to speak and

10:57:22 I'm very grateful for that.

10:57:23 I am transgendered.

10:57:25 I'm also a minister.

10:57:27 I'm a family man.

10:57:29 And I'm a parent of two beautiful teenage daughters.

10:57:33 The only thing I'm looking for is not special rights.




10:57:37 I want human rights.

10:57:38 I'm a human being.

10:57:40 I'm not a dog.

10:57:42 I'm not an animal.

10:57:44 I have been working with children for the last ten

10:57:45 years, in and out of the school district of Pasco

10:57:47 County.

10:57:48 And I can honestly tell you, I don't have any desire to

10:57:52 harm them in any way.

10:57:55 I believe that this ordinance needs to go through.

10:57:58 We need to have something.

10:58:00 Unfortunately, you know, there are going to be people

10:58:03 out there that are going to take advantage of this.

10:58:05 I can't help that.

10:58:06 But there are a lot of good people like us out there

10:58:08 that need to be protected.

10:58:10 Up until three months ago I was working as a drug and

10:58:12 alcohol counselor.

10:58:13 And because of the covert, uncomfortableness because of

10:58:16 my transition, I went ahead and decided to leave my

10:58:21 job.

10:58:23 I decided then that I would just go ahead and find




10:58:25 something part time so I can continue to be a good

10:58:27 father to my girls.

10:58:29 I was lucky enough to find a job just recently.

10:58:32 But I can't tell you how scary it was not knowing if I

10:58:35 would be able to provide for my family, because I may

10:58:37 not get hired.

10:58:39 I'm definitely not -- a lot of people wonder, is he

10:58:46 male or female?

10:58:47 I will not list because I'm transgendered and I'm

10:58:50 really proud of that.

10:58:51 But I hear a lot of the religious going on, and as a

10:58:55 minister I'm offended.

10:58:56 I am saddened that people are using religion as a guise

10:59:00 for hate.

10:59:01 All I can keep thinking of standing in this line is

10:59:03 thank God for the separation of church and state.

10:59:06 I do believe that there is a place for morality, and

10:59:09 for religion.

10:59:09 But there's also a time when the law needs to step in

10:59:12 and they need to do something to protect us.

10:59:14 Thank you.

10:59:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.




10:59:19 >> Good morning, council.

10:59:24 My name is Louis Bagley, 3217 East Hanna.

10:59:29 And we have heard just about this morning everything of

10:59:31 that we can hear concerning religion.

10:59:34 I would just like to say to you all that I haven't

10:59:37 heard of any facts of anyone beating down any

10:59:44 homosexuals in any bathroom, and if that's not what we

10:59:47 are talking about, then why are we trying to pass this

10:59:52 agenda?

10:59:52 I would also like to say as the mother back here said

10:59:55 when she was married that her husband made a choice to

10:59:58 be a homosexual.

11:00:01 What you all are going to pass is a law that's going to

11:00:03 end up coming right back around, that's going to be

11:00:07 making a choice if an adulterous decides they want the

11:00:12 same rights, can they then get the same rights?

11:00:15 What I am saying to you is we are talking about if

11:00:18 someone says that they are going to beat down a

11:00:21 homosexual in my workplace, I wouldn't sit there and

11:00:26 watch someone beat one down.

11:00:27 As a Christian I don't dislike them and I don't hate

11:00:30 them. They made a choice.




11:00:31 And that's what we are talking about here this morning,

11:00:33 council. A choice.

11:00:34 And when you make that decision, you are opening a door

11:00:38 to a can of worms that has nothing to do with their

11:00:41 preference, but has everything to do with our state,

11:00:44 and our state of mind here, and where we live at.

11:00:47 So make your choice based on the truth, and where your

11:00:53 heart is and not based on politics and whether you are

11:00:55 going to be voted back in or voted out.

11:00:57 Thank you.

11:00:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

11:01:01 Next speaker.

11:01:05 Next speaker.

11:01:06 The clock is ticking.

11:01:07 >> (off microphone)

11:01:18 Explaining the human rights ordinance to include

11:01:20 transgendered people is absolutely the right thing to

11:01:23 do.

11:01:24 Discrimination is discrimination.

11:01:27 It doesn't matter what group.

11:01:32 It does the same harm.

11:01:33 >> We have a little trouble hearing you, ma'am.




11:01:37 >> I'm sorry.

11:01:39 Would you like me to start over?

11:01:41 >> No, that's all right.

11:01:42 >> Okay.

11:01:45 Anti-discrimination laws exist to ensure that every

11:01:48 human being is treated equally in the eyes of the law.

11:01:53 This ordinance does not take away anything from the

11:01:56 majority.

11:01:57 It doesn't mean people can't believe whatever they

11:01:59 wish.

11:02:00 It just means that from a legal standpoint, each person

11:02:04 is equal, and they are going to be judged by their own

11:02:11 merit.

11:02:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

11:02:13 Next speaker.

11:02:14 >> Good morning.

11:02:20 My name Chad Bagley.

11:02:21 I live at 8714 west manor apartments.

11:02:26 I came before you today.

11:02:28 I didn't know this was going on.

11:02:29 I spoke with my father just before you.

11:02:31 My greatest problem with this is that when continue to




11:02:34 go back and forth about religion, and what people

11:02:36 believe or don't believe.

11:02:38 I am a professed Christian.

11:02:40 I do believe in every word that is spoken of and

11:02:42 written in the Bible.

11:02:43 My problem is that the first thing we deal with, we are

11:02:46 going to talk about gender, demon I go and everything.

11:02:51 The first problem is that my problem with homosexuality

11:02:55 is not the people or what they do, it's the fact that

11:02:58 this is a choice.

11:02:59 When I say a choice meaning that there is a mental

11:03:02 health condition that we need to look at.

11:03:04 If you are a man and you say you are a man and you

11:03:05 don't want women but you want a man that acts like a

11:03:08 woman, are you a woman that doesn't want a man and, a

11:03:11 like a woman, then why do you go through the same thing

11:03:14 that you say you don't want?

11:03:15 I think the first thing is the mental health of these

11:03:19 people.

11:03:19 A lot of these things are from their childhood, from

11:03:22 neglect, molestation.

11:03:25 Then when we talk about transgender there needs to be




11:03:28 counseling put in place so they can people can deal

11:03:30 with the issues and problems.

11:03:33 Just take on what people believe and what people think

11:03:36 is right and that's why the condition try -- country is

11:03:39 in the condition it is.

11:03:41 Rome, Babylon, Greece, all these great nations and we

11:03:44 are leading ourselves into that same situation.

11:03:46 The economical problems come from grief, not because --

11:03:52 because people want more than what they deserve.

11:03:54 And we have to all understand and look at ourselves and

11:03:57 evaluate ourselves where we are at in a personal

11:03:59 system, what we are doing, how to operate and I have

11:04:03 nothing personal against these people.

11:04:04 I think they deserve to have jobs, they deserve to

11:04:06 work.

11:04:07 But what I am saying is why does everything that goes

11:04:09 on in their bedroom have to come and affect them in a

11:04:13 personal manner?

11:04:14 I don't think a hetero sexual doesn't deserve special

11:04:19 rights.

11:04:19 I'm a black man.

11:04:21 Race I am is things that has not been dealt with.




11:04:24 We continue to move on and we have sweep everything

11:04:27 else under the rug and hope it moves forward and we are

11:04:30 not dealing with the foundation of these problems.

11:04:31 And the problem is that we need to individually check

11:04:33 ourselves and look at ourselves and what we do and how

11:04:38 we not hate and discriminate against people because of

11:04:41 their sexual preference, when their sexual preference

11:04:44 should be kept in their clothing, in the close of their

11:04:49 home.

11:04:49 I don't go out professing what I do with my wife the

11:04:53 night before.

11:04:53 I try to live that.

11:04:55 Thank you.

11:04:55 >> Thank you.

11:04:56 >> Reverend Phyllis hunt, pastor of the metropolitan

11:05:03 community church of Tampa.

11:05:05 Really I appreciate the time that you have given each

11:05:08 and every one of us to speak our hearts and speak our

11:05:11 minds.

11:05:13 I'm not quite sure how the issue of protecting a group

11:05:18 of people who don't fit in the norm of what looks like

11:05:27 normal society got derailed into bathroom issues.




11:05:35 What I do know in my 50-plus years of living is that I

11:05:38 have never been asked to expose myself so that I could

11:05:41 be -- so that the rest of the people could be assured

11:05:45 that I was female.

11:05:47 We have to stop putting people in categories of gender.

11:05:53 Gender expression and identity doesn't just protect

11:05:58 folks who identify themselves as transgendered or cross

11:06:03 dresser, but also protect people that other folks might

11:06:06 judge as being anything other than norm.

11:06:09 And what I have experienced in this state is us and

11:06:17 them.

11:06:18 The Christian Judeo values have been quoted in this

11:06:22 place today, and yet there is a missing piece in

11:06:26 interpreting that Biblical text in the fact that we

11:06:30 don't read the Bible as they lived in in this day wrote

11:06:33 it.

11:06:33 We are reading as we live and as we want to interpret

11:06:37 the text for our values today, in antiquity when the

11:06:44 Bible was written, if you were -- if you had rashes on

11:06:47 your body, if you lost a hand or arm you were sent to

11:06:50 the margins of the community.

11:06:52 You were exiled.




11:06:56 We have a human rights ordinance that says no matter

11:06:59 how you are differently able, you are a valuable

11:07:00 contributing person in our society.

11:07:02 The Bible says don't get divorced.

11:07:05 And yet we have laws on the books in every state and

11:07:09 the United States that protect people in their covenant

11:07:12 relationship and allow divorce as an option.

11:07:16 I encourage you to look at the hearts and lives in this

11:07:20 community, four our segregated, separated, violated,

11:07:25 not allowed, fair and equitable housing, and work.

11:07:30 (Bell sounds).

11:07:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

11:07:32 >> My name is Gwen Pybus. I live at 5126 studio drive,

11:07:42 Zephyrhills, Florida.

11:07:43 And I hear a lot that those that are on the side of the

11:07:49 transgender, they say that they are Christians.

11:07:51 I don't believe that they read the same Bible that I

11:07:54 read.

11:07:54 I believe that God was sincere when he burned up Sodom

11:08:03 and Gomorrah.

11:08:06 He made a statement that was very loud and clear even

11:08:06 today. It's not a matter of whether they are




11:08:08 discriminated against.

11:08:10 They need to make a decision about whether or not they

11:08:11 are going to be a man or they are going to be a woman.

11:08:14 If they are born a woman, or they are born a man, so be

11:08:18 it.

11:08:18 They need to dress that way.

11:08:21 We should not have to go through and try to figure out

11:08:25 who is among us.

11:08:28 We have enough of that with the terrorists as it is.

11:08:31 We don't need to have to try to figure out, are you a

11:08:35 man, are you a woman, or have you had a sex change, or

11:08:38 you haven't had a sex change?

11:08:40 I was in J.C. Penney's Sunday and there was a young man

11:08:44 in there, and the woman, the attendant was afraid to

11:08:47 even speak to that man.

11:08:50 And that's what he was, he was a young man, to have him

11:08:53 removed from that dressing room.

11:08:55 And I don't think that that should have to be.

11:08:57 I don't think anyone should have to be put in that

11:08:59 position, to put somebody out because they are a man in

11:09:03 a female dressing area.

11:09:06 I don't think that women should have to be put in that




11:09:08 position that they have to undress or they have to be

11:09:13 concerned about who is in the dressing room with them.

11:09:17 The same goes for men.

11:09:18 They should not have to worry about if there's a female

11:09:23 in the dressing room with them.

11:09:26 I'm asking you all to vote it no.

11:09:28 Thank you.

11:09:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

11:09:31 Next speaker.

11:09:31 >> Good morning or good afternoon.

11:09:37 My name is Richard Reavis, 3907 West Gray Street.

11:09:41 I'm familiar with a lot of you up there.

11:09:44 I have heard the Bible being brought into this.

11:09:46 I have heard gays.

11:09:47 I have heard homosexuals.

11:09:49 You shouldn't do this, you shouldn't do that.

11:09:51 This isn't about that.

11:09:53 It isn't about whether you are gay, whether you are

11:09:55 lesbians.

11:09:56 This is about what's right.

11:09:57 You know I'm a man because my voice, my hair, I have

11:10:00 got on jeans.




11:10:02 I look like a man.

11:10:03 I don't have female genitalia.

11:10:06 So that's the only reason you know I'm a man.

11:10:09 As a gay man, I've had discrimination.

11:10:12 This isn't about me being gay.

11:10:15 It's about what's right and what's fair.

11:10:20 No discrimination should be allowed regardless.

11:10:24 That's all I have to say.

11:10:25 Thank you.

11:10:26 >> Thank you.

11:10:26 Next speaker.

11:10:27 >> Good afternoon a.

11:10:31 My name is Torano Johnson, I live at 13129 St. Francis

11:10:38 lane in Thonotosassa.

11:10:39 I am here asking you, pleading with you to vote no,

11:10:43 because you are opening up a purpose to come into the

11:10:48 bathroom and put on address, whether they are gay or

11:10:50 not gay, homosexual, if that's the correct term, to

11:10:54 come into the bathrooms, and molest our children.

11:10:58 This is wrong.

11:11:00 This ordinance is immoral, and I will want you to know

11:11:04 I will rally, if you do vote yes, I will rally every




11:11:07 Christian in Tampa to vote against you next election.

11:11:18 >> Good morning, Chairman Scott, members of council.

11:11:20 My maim is Gary Ellsworth, 111 west Chelsea street.

11:11:25 I live in the City of Tampa.

11:11:26 I'm not here representing my neighborhood association

11:11:28 today, although I probably could be because we are open

11:11:31 to all people as long as you pay your $12 a year, you

11:11:35 are welcome to join.

11:11:38 I do want to thank you for your vote, your decision

11:11:41 that you made two weeks ago on this issue.

11:11:44 I think two weeks ago, it was probably a difficult

11:11:47 choice.

11:11:48 I think today it's going to be very easy choice for

11:11:51 you.

11:11:52 I think the presence of people lining both sides of

11:11:55 this room, the presence of six or so additional police

11:11:59 officers, certainly speaks volumes about

11:12:03 discrimination, or the possibility of discrimination.

11:12:07 I think when this many people feel this strongly about

11:12:11 either discriminating or not discriminating against

11:12:13 people, I think that's going to make your decision

11:12:15 easy.




11:12:17 This is about people being allowed to keep their jobs.

11:12:21 It's about being able to keep their home or their

11:12:24 apartment.

11:12:25 It's about being able to go to a dinner, to a movie,

11:12:29 and possibly even the church.

11:12:34 I don't think we need to come up with documentation

11:12:36 that would fill warehouses and show atrocities in order

11:12:39 for this to move forward.

11:12:42 It shouldn't have to be like the crimes of the past in

11:12:45 civil rights movements where we have warehouses, and

11:12:48 warehouses of horrible things that happened to people.

11:12:52 The time to act is now, before we have documentation

11:12:55 and problems.

11:12:58 I'll gladly come back here any day and line these walls

11:13:01 with either the we's or the they's or whatever side we

11:13:06 happen to be on, and I'll be back here and speak on

11:13:09 behalf of anybody who is facing discrimination in this

11:13:11 city.

11:13:12 And that's a promise to this council and ton this

11:13:14 community.

11:13:15 Thank you.

11:13:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.




11:13:17 >> I live at 8901 Ellis highway which happens to be two

11:13:25 blocks outside the city limits, but Mr. Dingfelder, I

11:13:28 do have Tampa gas in my tank.

11:13:31 And most of the fat I have on is Tampa restaurant fatso

11:13:41 I think I have a right to be here.

11:13:43 I think I can bring my family, I can bring friends that

11:13:45 come into town and we can enjoy the City of Tampa,

11:13:47 amusement parks, the zoo, whatever we want to do.

11:13:50 In the future I'm not so sure that it's going to be the

11:13:53 case.

11:13:53 And, as a matter of fact, I would be very concerned

11:13:55 about it.

11:13:56 I'm confused, I came in here, I have full confidence

11:14:05 that we are going to walk out of here with an

11:14:08 overwhelming majority of the board voting this down.

11:14:11 And I do that because I think I know who you folks are.

11:14:14 I think we studied who you are and I think when support

11:14:16 the people.

11:14:19 As a matter of fact I work with a political action

11:14:21 committee that for 20 years has tried to get the right

11:14:24 people in office across the State of Florida.

11:14:26 Unfortunately, something happened.




11:14:29 We never participated in the Tampa city election.

11:14:32 Something happened where a guy did exactly what

11:14:37 commissioner Miranda said would happen.

11:14:39 He decided to create confusion in the marketplace.

11:14:41 He decided to say, hey, I'm a candidate, this has never

11:14:44 worked four me before, but what I am going to do now is

11:14:47 I'm going to sound gay, that's going to get me a lot

11:14:49 more votes.

11:14:50 And the very man that has done more destruction in the

11:14:52 lives of women in the City of Tampa A and surrounding

11:14:55 areas was up against a lady who faced true

11:14:58 discrimination, and that wasn't right.

11:15:00 We rallied.

11:15:01 We turned a lot of people out to vote.

11:15:04 They came out and supported someone that's sitting in

11:15:06 your midst right now who deserves to be there, over

11:15:09 someone who might have been there.

11:15:10 So I encourage you to do the decent thing.

11:15:13 We are out there watching.

11:15:15 A lot of people aren't here today because they trust

11:15:17 you are going to do the right thing.

11:15:18 Thank you.




11:15:18 >> Thank you.

11:15:19 Next speaker.

11:15:20 >> Good morning.

11:15:25 My name is Aaron Toronto.

11:15:28 I live at 122 north kings Avenue in Brandon.

11:15:40 I am a 20-year-old college student.

11:15:42 I was born as a female.

11:15:44 I now live as a man.

11:15:45 I have been living as a man for five years.

11:15:48 It is a difficult path.

11:15:49 And I did not choose this.

11:15:51 The problem is that people are relating change gender

11:15:55 to homosexuality.

11:15:57 And though they are related, they are not the same.

11:16:01 These are separate issues and I'm sure the council

11:16:03 already understands this.

11:16:05 I have been compared today to recommending, a dog, to

11:16:10 all these crazy things, and like others have said, I am

11:16:13 a human being.

11:16:14 I would like rights and protection and employment.

11:16:18 The reason why there are many documents on -- aren't

11:16:22 many documents on hate crimes is because legislation




11:16:25 just got passed to protect transgendered people.

11:16:29 It is very new.

11:16:31 And, unfortunately, because of such, there isn't enough

11:16:35 documentation.

11:16:36 But within the transgender community there's also fear

11:16:40 to come out and say.

11:16:44 Everyone my own coming-out story, my family rejected it

11:16:49 outright, my friends rejected it outright.

11:16:51 Still many years later, my family still wants to reject

11:16:54 it.

11:16:56 I know for one I am not sexually active and I will not

11:17:00 be for many years.

11:17:01 That is my choice, to remain not sexually active.

11:17:05 And I will certainly not go into a men's bathroom while

11:17:11 they are taking care of their personal business.

11:17:13 I do not know a single transgendered person who would

11:17:16 do that.

11:17:17 Regardless of how people say that it's only transgender

11:17:24 people that do this, statistics prove that it is not.

11:17:28 Whether you ban transgender people from doing this and

11:17:31 going to the right bathroom or finding work properly,

11:17:36 we are still here.




11:17:38 And so are the pedophiles and perverts that do these

11:17:42 things.

11:17:42 We are separate groups.

11:17:45 We will not -- we are human beings and we understand.

11:17:52 Exactly what it's like.

11:17:54 Thank you.

11:17:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.

11:18:03 Anyone else?

11:18:04 >> Members of the council, my name is Coy Morgan,

11:18:09 Christ life ministries, 228 south 78th street,

11:18:13 Tampa, Florida.

11:18:14 I'm here to represent so many of the youth that I

11:18:21 mentor, young ladies, especially our young men.

11:18:25 In the message that we will vote on this ordinance to

11:18:30 allow gender to be preferred to the clothing that a

11:18:36 person wears and to give them the same rights to use

11:18:40 the restrooms that a male would use, or a female would

11:18:44 use, and they have not been born that way.

11:18:49 It is a moral decision.

11:18:50 It's not based on just my Biblical beliefs, but it is a

11:18:54 moral decision, in which we have to understand the

11:18:58 people that will take advantage of this ordinance.




11:19:05 We were at the chuckee cheese, and there were so many

11:19:08 of our little young girls that were feeling comfortable

11:19:10 to go to the restroom by themselves, at a time in their

11:19:14 lives where we as adults and parents should be able to

11:19:16 protect them, in which that's what they look up to us

11:19:18 to do.

11:19:20 And along with that there in the restroom and using the

11:19:24 restroom these little girls were young, naive, and

11:19:29 there is someone that looks like a female but was not a

11:19:35 female in there, genitalia is exposed.

11:19:40 How do you change?

11:19:41 How do you go back and explain to that young person

11:19:47 that that was right for them to see that, or what we

11:19:53 now in our society expect and accept?

11:19:58 To you, those that know to do what's right and choose

11:20:03 not, to you, many of our young adults, our young

11:20:08 people, lives hangs in the balance.

11:20:15 So today, council, I ask you to vote with moral

11:20:18 conscience, to not allow a choice based on what gender

11:20:23 a person would like to be, to be able to bring a

11:20:27 violation, and to be exposed to others, that cannot

11:20:31 protect themselves.




11:20:34 Closing with this, my grandfather always told me, he

11:20:37 said son --

11:20:39 (Bell sounds).

11:20:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, thank you, sir.

11:20:41 Thank you very much.

11:20:44 We won't be able to hear what your grandfather told

11:20:46 you.

11:20:47 You can tell me later, though.

11:20:49 Thank you.

11:20:50 >> I live in Gulfport, but my closest friend just

11:20:57 bought a house in Tampa and I am going to be spending a

11:20:59 lot of time over here with her.

11:21:01 I am a transgender person.

11:21:03 And I'm also many things.

11:21:07 I go to church every Sunday and have all my life and

11:21:10 believe in God, and it was a medical condition that vas

11:21:17 available, and get treatment, and live my life the way

11:21:23 I want.

11:21:24 I have in a desire to go in rooms and harass children

11:21:30 and it's deeply insulting to hear people say this about

11:21:33 transgendered people.

11:21:34 The reason I was sitting down is I'm 100 percent




11:21:40 disabled, Vietnam.

11:21:42 I fought for this country.

11:21:43 This is the freedom I fought for.

11:21:44 And I trust you people are going to make a really good

11:21:46 decision today, fair decision.

11:21:48 Based on law, based on justice, not -- I hate to say

11:21:54 archaic.

11:21:56 But it also says in the Bible an abomination, the

11:22:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker?

11:22:09 Anyone else?

11:22:10 No other speakers?

11:22:11 Okay.

11:22:16 >> Two minutes.

11:22:27 Clock is ticking.

11:22:29 >> All right. I'm going to test your little box thing

11:22:29 here. My name is Yasmin Kenny. I live on 3118 Juan

11:22:34 Avenue, Tampa, Florida 33611.

11:22:37 I would like to start with a Johann Von Schiller quote.

11:22:41 (Speaking foreign language.) Try to write that. What

11:22:54 that means is it's a quote from his book "The Artist"

11:22:57 and it means that your humanity has been placed

11:22:59 directly in your hands.




11:23:01 Take good care of it.

11:23:03 With you, it may collectively rise or fall, and with

11:23:08 you it may sink.

11:23:09 Like the translation doesn't really work.

11:23:11 But basically it's a two-way street.

11:23:14 So, anyways, I guess I am one with of those people that

11:23:19 you have been talking about.

11:23:20 Like I don't need surgery.

11:23:24 I identify a transgender individual.

11:23:28 I generally use whatever bathroom has the shortest

11:23:30 line.

11:23:34 Tomorrow is the national transgender day.

11:23:39 I heard a lot of people say things about no evidence,

11:23:45 right in front of me a list of over 100 people.

11:23:48 The variety majority of them are transgender women of

11:23:53 color, the variety majority are poor, I see some

11:23:56 decapitations, shootings, stabbings, beatings, burning

11:24:01 like people were set aflame.

11:24:03 This is serious.

11:24:05 I am not here to grandstand.

11:24:11 This is no agenda.

11:24:14 We are human beings, too.




11:24:16 Ware not dogs.

11:24:17 We are no Lemmings.

11:24:19 We deserve just as much rights, justice and humanity as

11:24:25 anyone else in this world.

11:24:27 And I know some of you already know that.

11:24:30 And I just wanted to drive the point home that we are

11:24:34 here, we are listening, and we are very pretty cam

11:24:40 people.

11:24:42 -- political people.

11:24:44 I hear a lot of stuff about Christianity here.

11:24:48 And those cool, you know.

11:24:51 But my favorite part of the Bible is actually Matthew

11:24:54 25.

11:24:54 (Bell sounds).

11:24:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

11:24:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?

11:25:06 Last speaker.

11:25:06 >> Good morning.

11:25:12 My name is Sheila Kelly, reside at 910 West Virginia

11:25:19 Avenue.

11:25:20 And one of the last speakers, I feel emotional, because

11:25:26 what I'm hearing is that a group of people that are




11:25:33 asking to be included to this community might

11:25:41 eventually be considered by -- I respectfully

11:25:47 appreciate my Christian brothers and sisters -- to be

11:25:51 considered pedophiles, which would be sexual offenders,

11:25:56 who would be registered.

11:26:01 I know that's a large leap.

11:26:02 But it bothers me to think that.

11:26:07 I have lived in this city almost 34 years.

11:26:10 My education and my professional working life as a

11:26:16 research sociologist at the university level.

11:26:22 For about 31 years.

11:26:26 The one thing I learned in studying children and

11:26:29 families, and a also aging and mental health, is that

11:26:34 the important thing, or two important things, are

11:26:40 cultural group identities, and also our need to belong

11:26:48 to the community.

11:26:52 I also am a Christian, and a Buddhist, and my Christian

11:27:00 core value has always been to love one another.

11:27:08 I think that maybe some of the confusion that we all

11:27:12 have has to do with pressure, the pressure to

11:27:16 understand and the pressure to accept.

11:27:20 And that comes with time.




11:27:25 I also heard a reference to liberty and justice for

11:27:28 all, which is the end of our pledge of allegiance.

11:27:33 And I thoroughly believe in that.

11:27:35 (Bell sounds).

11:27:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

11:27:42 Thank you.

11:27:43 Thank you.

11:27:45 Motion to close the public hearing, please.

11:27:47 >> So moved.

11:27:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.

11:27:48 >> Motion and second that we close the public hearing.

11:27:51 All in favor?

11:27:53 Opposes?

11:27:53 Let me just say to all of you that are here, to all of

11:27:57 the public speakers, first of all, let me commend you

11:28:00 and thank you for exercising your right to come and be

11:28:04 heard.

11:28:06 That's the thing I like about this country is that we

11:28:09 have an opportunity to be heard.

11:28:10 Secondly, I want to thank you, commend you for your

11:28:13 conduct and the way you have handled yourselves in

11:28:17 these chambers, and I want to applaud you and thank you




11:28:19 for that.

11:28:21 While we may be on various ends of the spectrum, yet at

11:28:26 the same time I believe that we have been very cordial

11:28:29 in these chambers.

11:28:30 I want to thank you for that.

11:28:31 And with that being said, Mr. Fletcher now has been

11:28:35 engaged, with the ordinance and some amendments.

11:28:43 However, I will let council talk now.

11:28:45 They want to speak relative to the ordinance at this

11:28:48 point.

11:28:48 And then I will say my -- save my comments for last.

11:28:51 >>MARY MULHERN: I would just like to remind everyone

11:29:00 that we are not in church, that this is your Tampa City

11:29:04 Council, and we are legislators, at the local level.

11:29:11 I believe our laws are probably based on morality

11:29:19 that's ages old, and probably is Judeo Christian, but

11:29:24 when I look at my responsibility here, I think it does,

11:29:29 as one of the speakers just said, have to do with

11:29:32 liberty and justice for all.

11:29:34 And I am reminded of even before our Constitution, our

11:29:41 Declaration of Independence begins with the fact that

11:29:47 we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men




11:29:50 are created equal, that they are endowed by their

11:29:55 creator with certain inalienable rights, that among

11:29:58 these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

11:30:03 I think that's what we have to think about.

11:30:04 Back then when they said "men "ow "I'm assuming they

11:30:07 meant "humans."

11:30:09 They were talking about Americans.

11:30:11 They weren't talking about just people born as men.

11:30:14 So I think that everything and anything that we need to

11:30:19 do to protect individual freedom and privacy, by the

11:30:25 way, is appropriate.

11:30:29 And that's why I support this ordinance.

11:30:31 And don't see any need for an amendment to it, although

11:30:36 I am very happy to listen to any recommendations.

11:30:39 And I would also like to point out that a lot of the

11:30:42 fears that were expressed today are fears of crime.

11:30:48 And we have an excellent police force here in Tampa.

11:30:52 And I think that if sexual predators -- and a lot of

11:30:58 these things are people are afraid of regardless of the

11:31:01 gender, or gender identity of the person who is

11:31:06 perpetrating them, I think that that's what the law is

11:31:09 here for, too, to protect us against crime.




11:31:12 So I just wanted to say that.

11:31:15 And I just wanted to say that we do have a separation

11:31:21 of church and state.

11:31:22 And we heard about one religion today, and one mention

11:31:27 of one other religion, and we respect, and we are

11:31:32 expected to respect the freedom of everyone in their

11:31:35 expression of religion, and we do that, and we did that

11:31:38 today.

11:31:38 But our responsibility is not to be preachers, although

11:31:43 we do have a preacher.

11:31:45 But his had responsibility here today also is to be a

11:31:51 lawmaker, and consider our Constitution and our

11:31:55 responsibility as local legislators.

11:31:57 So I do support this as I did on the first reading.

11:32:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anybody else?

11:32:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Curious to hear your discussion,

11:32:09 Mr. Chairman.

11:32:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just say before I bring Mr.

11:32:13 Fletcher, forward, our city attorney, let me say today

11:32:17 that this has been a very, very difficult issue for me,

11:32:20 given my background as a positive tore and as a clergy.

11:32:27 I have not taken this issue very lightly over the past




11:32:30 several weeks when the civil rights council approached

11:32:35 me in my office, I began then doing some research and

11:32:38 talking with some of my colleagues in ministry not only

11:32:40 here in this state but outside of the state.

11:32:47 I'm the first to confess that I did not sleep well last

11:32:49 night.

11:32:50 I spent most of my time as a Christian praying and

11:32:55 seeking really wisdom and direction on this particular

11:32:58 ordinance.

11:32:59 Now some of you can understand that.

11:33:02 I am going to say some things for both sides.

11:33:05 But that's not the issue for me.

11:33:11 I have a record as a county commissioner for ten years.

11:33:16 I have never condoned or voted for issues relative to

11:33:20 gay issues, homosexual issues, of that nature.

11:33:24 Never have.

11:33:25 And I don't intend to, because of my own personal

11:33:28 convictions.

11:33:33 I do not change what I believe for a vote.

11:33:38 That's not where I am.

11:33:40 I'm sorry for those who thought they can intimidate me

11:33:44 by saying we have an election coming up and they are




11:33:47 going to be voting.

11:33:48 The only vote I'm concerned about is God's vote.

11:33:51 So I'm not intimidated by that.

11:33:54 At the end of the day what's important for me is my

11:33:57 convictions, and my belief, and that when I am no

11:34:02 longer a City Council person or elected official, live

11:34:08 with me and the decisions I made.

11:34:11 That's the most important issue for me.

11:34:14 Can I live with Tom Scott when this is all over?

11:34:24 Today it is a very difficult one.

11:34:26 Let me say for the record I have never condoned, nor do

11:34:31 I agree with those who decide to live their life any

11:34:37 other way than a man or a female.

11:34:39 That's holy up to them.

11:34:42 But then that's the issue of this country, of choice.

11:34:46 Whether we want to admit that or not.

11:34:48 That's what religious freedom or that's what this

11:34:50 country is all about, democracy is all about.

11:34:53 It's a freedom.

11:34:55 To not be discriminated against.

11:34:57 Freedom to be able to have a good house, a good home,

11:35:01 to live in a good community.




11:35:02 That's what this country is about.

11:35:08 Freedom to be able to live comfortably and not be

11:35:15 called derogatory names.

11:35:19 On the other hand, I thought about it.

11:35:24 I took off my political hat and thought about my

11:35:27 religious role as a pastor.

11:35:31 Every Sunday I preach to several hundred people and I

11:35:33 say to them, God loves you no matter what you have

11:35:37 done.

11:35:40 He's standing with open arms to forgive you and to

11:35:43 accept you as who you are.

11:35:50 God's love is for every person.

11:35:53 I believe that.

11:35:55 I asked the question, what would Jesus do if he was

11:35:58 here?

11:35:59 I'm reminded -- and I think I'm kind of preaching here.

11:36:04 I'm reminded of a story when the Pharisees went out and

11:36:08 they wanted to trap Jesus and they said we have a woman

11:36:10 caught in the very act of adultery, what do you say?

11:36:13 This is what the law says.

11:36:15 And he Nevada stood a word.

11:36:19 He stooped down and started writing in the ground.




11:36:21 And then he got up and said, you without sin cast the

11:36:25 first stone.

11:36:25 I believe that love covers multitudes of fault.

11:36:33 I believe perfect love casts out fear.

11:36:36 I believe that Jesus loves every person in this room

11:36:42 within the sound of my voice.

11:36:43 I believe that.

11:36:47 For a person to have a sex change, I wish all of my

11:36:50 religious colleagues were here, if a person has a sex

11:36:53 change, and they come join your church, will you accept

11:36:56 them?

11:36:59 Or will you turn them away?

11:37:02 I could find no Biblical record where Jesus turned

11:37:05 anybody away.

11:37:06 Or would you require them to convert back to their

11:37:09 original gender?

11:37:12 Those are the kind of questions that we have to raise

11:37:15 and ask ourselves from the religious community.

11:37:21 This ordinance, as I understand it -- and Mr. Fletcher

11:37:24 is going to come now -- this ordinance does not address

11:37:27 transvestites.

11:37:28 This ordinance does not allow for men to be able to go




11:37:32 into women's restrooms, as I understand it.

11:37:36 This ordinance is about the abuse and molestation of

11:37:42 children. (sic)

11:37:42 This ordinance is not about all those issues.

11:37:49 It is my understanding that this ordinance is about

11:37:52 those who have made a decision to change their gender

11:37:56 and that they should not be discriminated against.

11:38:00 That is my understanding of this ordinance.

11:38:05 Mr. Fletcher, if you can come now and have us work

11:38:08 through some of this.

11:38:09 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Chip Fletcher, city attorney.

11:38:13 As I mentioned when this was presented, one of the

11:38:17 things that our office did was will around the state in

11:38:21 various different ways of writing language on this

11:38:23 issue, and we selected language that was used in a

11:38:26 variety of places, the meeting at Gulfport, Miami

11:38:30 beach, a whole list of other cities.

11:38:33 What was brought -- and I will tell you that for my

11:38:38 view, what this focuses on is gender identity, which is

11:38:42 the individual self-perceived gender.

11:38:47 Now, admittedly the language that we selected with the

11:38:51 human rights board did not focus in on that precise




11:38:54 issue, used the term gender identity.

11:38:58 There are other jurisdictions that have language that

11:39:02 approaches that issue more directly.

11:39:05 And one of those is city of Gainesville.

11:39:08 And I think you heard that mentioned here today.

11:39:10 >> I have been engaged in conversation about it.

11:39:13 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: That's right.

11:39:15 While they have some language in their definition,

11:39:17 which you might have you as broader than ours, they do

11:39:21 have a phrase that I think is helpful in this context

11:39:24 which says the inner sense of being a specific gender,

11:39:30 meaning the individual's inner sense of what they

11:39:32 believe their gender is.

11:39:34 And to address this issue and focus more in on this

11:39:38 issue, what I would suggest, if it's council's desire,

11:39:42 that that phrase could be added to our draft so that it

11:39:46 would read: Gender identity or expression means the

11:39:51 inner sense of being a specific gender, gender

11:39:55 identity, appearance, expression, and behavior as an

11:39:57 individual regardless of the individual's assigned sex

11:40:01 at birth.

11:40:02 I believe it gets to the same place, but it does speak




11:40:05 more directly to the individual's mental impression

11:40:09 which I think is the key issue in this context, when

11:40:11 you are trying to address this particular issue.

11:40:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And that's the conversation Mr.

11:40:18 Fletcher -- if we can make that change, then I can

11:40:20 support that.

11:40:23 Again, I only have one vote.

11:40:25 And my vote again is today to make sure that we are

11:40:28 clear, there's no ambiguity, that it's about

11:40:31 discrimination, that every person has the right to be

11:40:35 able to buy a home, in the community, they have a right

11:40:39 to be able to go into a restaurant without being

11:40:44 discriminated against.

11:40:45 I close and I recognize Mr. Miranda, and Mr.

11:40:48 Dingfelder.

11:40:49 I close by saying that to all of us today, I am a

11:40:54 Christian, I'm a pastor, I'm a disciple of the man whom

11:41:00 they call a winebibber, a friend to sinners, yet he was

11:41:07 a man that loved everybody.

11:41:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.

11:41:13 I never followed a preacher in such a long sermon as

11:41:17 you.




11:41:18 Here I am.

11:41:20 Mr. Fletcher, don't sit down, please.

11:41:22 The last time you were here and I voted for these

11:41:24 ordinances the first reading, I asked several

11:41:26 questions.

11:41:27 Which were not only of these rights that we are talking

11:41:29 about, cross gender, but what about the rest of the

11:41:33 rights of those in the workplace and so forth and so

11:41:35 on, what rights do they have?

11:41:38 I specifically mentioned that I was not going to sit

11:41:42 through an individual named Charlie, that's my own name

11:41:44 so I don't discriminate against anyone else, and the

11:41:47 next day be Charlene.

11:41:49 I'm discriminating against Charlene because I brought

11:41:52 up a name that's not mine.

11:41:53 And the article written I believe was in the "The Tampa

11:41:55 Tribune."

11:41:56 You said that was not possible under the ordinance.

11:41:59 However, right after that paragraph came Mr. Dinkins,

11:42:08 which --

11:42:11 Sir, you have to come to the mike, speak on the record.

11:42:14 Can't speak from the audience.




11:42:14 >> Yes, sir, I did make that statement but he would

11:42:16 didn't have much follow through on that about what that

11:42:18 actually meant.

11:42:19 If I have an opportunity to say more or really --

11:42:22 >> I'm asking you that question.

11:42:23 I believe you have the right to answer.

11:42:24 >> I'm not an attorney.

11:42:26 I am the chairman of the City of Tampa human rights

11:42:28 board, and I can only speak from my own feelings, and

11:42:31 that would be that a workplace would have the right to

11:42:34 establish a dress code.

11:42:36 If I have to wear a suit to my work, an employer could

11:42:40 establish a dress code --

11:42:42 >> That's not the question.

11:42:44 You and I know it.

11:42:45 >> No, it is.

11:42:46 You are asking if someone could be disruptive in a

11:42:49 workplace by coming back and forth in different

11:42:51 demeanors.

11:42:52 First of all, personally, I wouldn't feel that would be

11:42:55 the situation we are dealing with because gender

11:42:58 identity disorder doesn't rock back and forth from day




11:43:02 to day.

11:43:03 And we have had many people from the community here to

11:43:06 speak to them.

11:43:07 I'm so glad they did because last time we didn't have

11:43:09 anyone from that community talk to us, and you have

11:43:12 seen that they are nice folks, and they are in

11:43:14 different stages of their lives, but it's not something

11:43:19 that flips back and forth from Friday to Monday to

11:43:21 Tuesday or Wednesday.

11:43:22 So I feel -- the point I understood you to make last

11:43:29 time was did they have to have sexual reassignment

11:43:32 surgery in order to be protected?

11:43:34 That's what I thought you meant.

11:43:35 And I don't agree.

11:43:36 >> Well, that was half and half was not thoroughly

11:43:40 correct.

11:43:42 The statement was that I made was that, if I recall,

11:43:46 that I didn't want disruption in the workplace of

11:43:49 somebody being something today and being something else

11:43:52 another day.

11:43:53 And in the paper, you were quoted, yes, they could do

11:43:58 that.




11:43:58 Now, whether that's.

11:43:59 PRIOR SPEAKER: Wrong, I don't know.

11:44:02 Let me ask another question.

11:44:05 How many documented complaints have you had?

11:44:08 >>> As I mentioned to you at our last meeting I believe

11:44:11 there were either 13 or 16 complaints have been filed

11:44:14 with the City of Tampa human rights office in the past

11:44:18 years based upon gender identity and expression, they

11:44:21 could not be investigated or accepted because it was

11:44:23 not a protected category.

11:44:26 But 16, I believe.

11:44:27 It could have been 13 or perhaps 16.

11:44:30 And that came from the City of Tampa.

11:44:33 If I could make one more comment, councilman Miranda.

11:44:36 You mention board of director how I was quoted in the

11:44:38 press.

11:44:38 Now as someone that gets quoted in the press, you don't

11:44:41 get an opportunity to edit your comments.

11:44:44 I was faced with six cameras and five reporters last

11:44:47 time.

11:44:47 I don't normally do that.

11:44:49 And I didn't get a chance to edit.




11:44:50 They asked me soundbites, and I didn't get a chance to

11:44:53 talk and further explain my position.

11:44:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Fletcher, in the ordinance that

11:45:02 you made reference to changes, how can we draft that

11:45:08 ordinance, or what I just said doesn't happen in the

11:45:13 workplace?

11:45:14 I do not want disruption in the workplace.

11:45:16 It's not about gay, lesbian, transgender, white, black,

11:45:22 Cuban, African-American, bald, long hair, whatever.

11:45:26 How do you put that in so that it does not happen?

11:45:34 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: One, first I'll say that the

11:45:37 transition period as I understand it, where someone is

11:45:41 on one gender on one day and then comes to work another

11:45:45 day as another -- presenting as another gender, it's my

11:45:51 understanding of what the intent of this is, is to

11:45:54 protect that transition.

11:45:56 So whether that's disruptive in the workplace or not,

11:46:01 that's what the intent is to protect that transition.

11:46:05 What I believe I spoke to last time was the idea that

11:46:10 someone could show up one day present as one gender,

11:46:15 another day as another gender, and pick and choose as

11:46:18 they go, what the intent of this ordinance is -- and I




11:46:22 think what Chairman Scott and I discussed makes it

11:46:25 clear -- is it focuses on that person's individual

11:46:28 identity, and in order to take advantage of this

11:46:31 ordinance, they would have to demonstrate to the human

11:46:33 rights board the fact finder on this issue, and city

11:46:38 staff will do investigations that they do have in fact

11:46:42 that mental impression, that mental condition, that

11:46:45 they are the opposite sex.

11:46:48 So it would have to be -- they are the other gender.

11:46:53 So I can't tell you that there would not be a

11:46:55 disruption in the workplace when that transition

11:46:58 occurs.

11:47:00 >> Who makes that determination?

11:47:02 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Under this ordinance, it's the

11:47:04 human rights board.

11:47:04 >> And how are they qualified to make that

11:47:07 determination?

11:47:08 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: They are qualified just as any

11:47:10 other citizen board appointed by the mayor and the

11:47:12 council.

11:47:19 That's the structure that has been in place at the

11:47:21 city.




11:47:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.

11:47:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I appreciate you quoting the

11:47:35 Declaration of Independence, Mary.

11:47:37 Of course we operate under the Constitution.

11:47:40 Declaration of independence, life, liberty and the

11:47:42 pursuit of happiness.

11:47:44 Every single Thursday morning, we start off, put our

11:47:48 hands over our hearts, say the pledge of allegiance,

11:47:50 with liberty and justice for all.

11:47:59 Every time I close my eyes during the invocation, I

11:48:04 really think about those words, because that's what we

11:48:06 are here about.

11:48:07 Okay.

11:48:10 We have been selected by the citizens to make very,

11:48:15 very tough decisions including this one.

11:48:18 But at the end of the Dave we have to fall back on

11:48:20 these core things that our country is founded upon,

11:48:27 liberty and justice for all.

11:48:29 Not for some.

11:48:32 Not for this side and not that side or that side and

11:48:35 not this side.

11:48:37 But for everybody.




11:48:41 I will never be able to speak as eloquently as our

11:48:44 chairman, because you did.

11:48:47 You spoke very eloquently.

11:48:53 In law we talk about red herrings, about things that

11:48:55 people bring into the courtroom that are not real

11:48:58 issues.

11:49:02 And I've heard many today.

11:49:03 I heard about terrorism.

11:49:05 I heard about dogs and failing economies, bathrooms,

11:49:14 perverts, those were all red herrings.

11:49:19 With all due respect to the people who say them, who

11:49:23 say them very honestly, and I know you feel this deep

11:49:26 in your heart.

11:49:27 And I respect that tremendously.

11:49:29 No matter where you live in the city or the county.

11:49:34 I do respect it.

11:49:35 But at the same time that's not the issue.

11:49:36 That's not why we are here.

11:49:39 Okay.

11:49:39 We have a human rights ordinance on our books today,

11:49:44 and it's been in place, I think, for going on 20 years.

11:49:50 At one point in time, I went to the Florida Supreme




11:49:52 Court to help defend that ordinance.

11:49:55 And I was honored to do so.

11:49:58 All we are doing today, hopefully, is continuing this

11:50:03 7-0 vote, is adding one more class of persons to the

11:50:10 protections that we already thrive under, under that

11:50:14 human rights ordinance.

11:50:16 There is one small group that has been identified as

11:50:21 falling through the cracks and not being protected.

11:50:25 Five or six of those folks who have fallen through the

11:50:28 cracks stood up to that microphone today with

11:50:33 tremendous courage, with cameras on them, with the

11:50:36 entire community looking at them and scratching their

11:50:38 head saying, what are they?

11:50:40 I'm confused, this and that.

11:50:42 You know what?

11:50:43 I don't care what they are.

11:50:45 Because what they really are is they are human beings

11:50:49 with the right to liberty and justice for all.

11:50:55 Somebody alluded to -- and I can't remember who it

11:50:57 was -- they didn't use the word the Holocaust but they

11:51:03 alluded to that.

11:51:04 Okay.




11:51:04 As one of the greatest obviously human rights

11:51:09 abhorrations, tragedies, terrific things in recent

11:51:14 past.

11:51:17 Other people spoke to the civil rights movement.

11:51:22 The only difference here is just the magnitude.

11:51:27 In World War II, in the Holocaust, they were talking

11:51:30 about six million people, and the civil rights movement

11:51:33 it was talking about millions of Americans, okay.

11:51:37 But at the end of the day of the doesn't talk about

11:51:39 whether we talk about millions or the five or six

11:51:41 people who have the courage to stand up at the

11:51:44 microphone today, it's our job to protect them.

11:51:48 Mr. Chairman, with your indulgence I would like to move

11:51:50 the ordinance with the amendment that you suggested

11:51:52 including the Gainesville provision that Mr. Fletcher

11:51:57 did.

11:51:57 And I don't know if we can do that at first reading

11:52:00 since it's just a minor clarification, or if -- I mean

11:52:04 for second reading, or if we can move forward with

11:52:08 second reading.

11:52:09 >> Mr. Chairman, I did just confer with Mr. Shelby, and

11:52:14 since the title would not change, it's just a few-word




11:52:19 change within that definition, we believe that can

11:52:21 county go forward on second reading.

11:52:23 And what I handed Mr. Shelby is a draft that assistant

11:52:28 city attorney McKinney did with the change as I

11:52:32 described it.

11:52:37 With that one clause.

11:52:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll read the title.

11:52:41 >> And if you can keep it intact and give it to the

11:52:46 clerk.

11:52:46 >> I'll read it with the clause just for clarification.

11:52:49 The clause that we have added, Mr. Chairman, thank you

11:52:51 for working on that.

11:52:53 It's under definitions.

11:52:55 Gender identity or expression means the inner sense of

11:52:58 being a specific gender, gender related identity,

11:53:01 appearance, expression, and behavior of an individual,

11:53:05 regardless of the individual's assigned sex at birth.

11:53:09 And that's in section 1.

11:53:11 And the entire ordinance title reads as follows.

11:53:15 I'll move this on second reading.

11:53:17 An ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida amending

11:53:18 chapter 12 of the City of Tampa code amending section




11:53:21 12-2 by adding a new definition for gender identity or

11:53:24 expression, amending section 12-16 (2).

11:53:28 Purpose: M.D. amending section 12-26, unlawful

11:53:32 employment practices; amending section 12-36,

11:53:36 exemptions; amending section 12-61 (2) purpose;

11:53:42 amending section 12-64, unlawful practices; amend

11:53:46 section 12-66 (C) exemptions; amending 12-71 (2)

11:53:53 purpose; amend section 12-81, sale or rental; amending

11:53:58 section 12-83, residential real estate-related

11:54:01 transactions; amending section 12-84, brokerage

11:54:05 services; amending section 12-101 (E) housing; amending

11:54:12 section 12-101 (G) housing by adding gender identity or

11:54:16 expression of a protected class to these sections;

11:54:19 providing for severability, providing for repeal of all

11:54:22 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.

11:54:30 Move that for second reading.

11:54:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Mulhern.

11:54:37 Again my vote is one that addresses the issue of

11:54:39 discrimination.

11:54:41 And for the record, the because of my position as a

11:54:47 pastor I want to the be understood that my vote is one

11:54:50 of discrimination, that every citizen, every citizen




11:54:54 has a right to be able to live in decent houses, to be

11:55:00 able to go into restaurants without discrimination.

11:55:06 I also want to say today, at the end of the day, what's

11:55:14 important is this -- is that every citizen is protected

11:55:23 under the law, and the Constitution.

11:55:28 An oath that all of us here took to uphold.

11:55:32 At the end of the day, for religious perspective, it is

11:55:39 said to every person that God loves you.

11:55:41 Record your vote.

11:55:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Excuse me, I hit the wrong button.

11:55:50 They were all blinking.

11:55:52 Want to reset?

11:56:18 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being

11:56:20 absent.

11:56:21 Miranda being -- voting no.

11:56:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Still, please.

11:56:32 We are in session.

11:56:34 Council, there's one other item we have set for 11:00.

11:56:39 I asked to come back on the 3rd.

11:56:41 Can I get a motion to add to the agenda on the 3rd?

11:56:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Time certain, 11:00?

11:56:47 >> Yes, time certain on the 3rd.




11:56:49 11:00.

11:56:49 Then also that resolution as well.

11:56:51 And then there's one last thing.

11:56:53 Can we take it up after lunch, you think, on the

11:56:56 calendar?

11:56:57 With that being said we stand in recess until 1:30.

11:57:00 Thank you.

11:57:01 (Meeting recessed.)

11:57:02

01:11:42 Tampa City Council

01:31:18 1:30 p.m. session

01:38:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.

01:38:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.

01:38:35 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.

01:38:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.

01:38:41 Okay, Mr. Fletcher.

01:38:42 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.

01:38:45 Over lunch, just to inform council, it was brought to

01:38:50 my attention by council for the PBA that they did not

01:38:55 have adequate tame to review the procedure for the

01:38:58 impasse hearing.

01:38:59 Apparently it was faxed to them yesterday afternoon at




01:39:01 some point.

01:39:02 Although I had transmitted to the council some time

01:39:05 previously, and while it is council's decision to have

01:39:09 council set that procedure, I thought that was

01:39:12 appropriate for you all to know.

01:39:16 Now we are not directly in my opinion limiting their

01:39:18 rights in a significant way so I feel no need for

01:39:21 council to take different action but I thought council

01:39:23 should be aware of that communication.

01:39:28 The hearing was set for more than two weeks away so

01:39:31 they have plenty of time to abide by that procedure.

01:39:35 But I wanted to bring that to you all's attention.

01:39:37 >> Did they suggest another date?

01:39:41 >> Not that I'm aware of.

01:39:45 What was communicated to my, on the procedure, I don't

01:39:47 know if they were communicated -- I don't know if they

01:39:50 are okay with this date or not.

01:39:54 I don't know if they were consulted on this date

01:39:57 either, quite frankly.

01:39:59 I have not seen the memo from Kimberly that's

01:40:02 referenced in the agenda.

01:40:04 It was -- this item was on the agenda and was




01:40:08 published.

01:40:08 So it was made part of the agenda.

01:40:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Actually the agenda was sent through

01:40:16 the e-mail, not necessarily posted.

01:40:19 Maybe addendum.

01:40:19 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: But I can't represent to you that

01:40:25 they were consulted about that date. I can represent

01:40:28 that they were concerned about the time they had to

01:40:29 review the procedure.

01:40:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me understand something.

01:40:38 Council can get something within 48 hours of figuring

01:40:40 what's going on and the rest of them can't?

01:40:43 Is that what we are saying?

01:40:44 I'm not for or against.

01:40:46 I'm just saying is that what I'm hearing?

01:40:52 Two weeks is not sufficient time of? I don't know,

01:40:54 what do they need?

01:40:56 I'm willing to go whatever they need.

01:40:58 I want clarity and understanding on both sides, that's

01:41:01 all.

01:41:01 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I may, Mr. Chairman.

01:41:04 What I'm representing to you all as the attorney for




01:41:06 the union indicated they did not feel they had enough

01:41:09 time to review the procedure.

01:41:11 I'm not sure when the initial was copied down to them

01:41:15 but the memo that I sent to you yesterday was faxed

01:41:18 late in the afternoon, and that was not sufficient in

01:41:20 their view, and that's what I'm communicating to you

01:41:25 all.

01:41:25 I cannot -- I do not actively engage with the city's

01:41:28 bargaining unit, bargaining advocates, bargaining

01:41:36 agents or the union's bargaining agents.

01:41:38 I can't speak to how they interacted and communicated

01:41:41 about setting this date.

01:41:42 I can speak to you on the procedure.

01:41:44 >>MARY MULHERN: We are being asked to settle an

01:41:50 impasse between two parties.

01:41:53 I would like at least the two parties to agree on the

01:41:55 date, and I would make a motion that we -- we already

01:42:06 agreed to have that date, didn't we?

01:42:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can, council.

01:42:10 If you will indulge me, way would like to do -- and I

01:42:13 know Mr. Fletcher because he's not engaged in the

01:42:15 process, he's a neutral in that sense, this is word




01:42:21 from the chief of staff's office, and contacted each of

01:42:24 you.

01:42:24 I would assume -- and this is an assumption.

01:42:27 I can't make it but I would like to confirm it, that

01:42:29 that date was also cleared as it was with each of you,

01:42:31 also with the bargaining unit of the PBA.

01:42:34 With your indulgence, before you take any other action,

01:42:37 I would like to contact Debby Ratolla, so at least a

01:42:43 date can be settled because there will be no other

01:42:45 meeting of City Council between now and December

01:42:47 2nd.

01:42:48 So it has to be resolved today.

01:42:51 With regard to the procedures, council always has the

01:42:54 ability on the day of the impasse hearing to adjust and

01:42:59 amend its procedures by motion and vote with without

01:43:02 objection of the parties.

01:43:03 So that can be dealt with.

01:43:05 So rather than make an issue out of it, while we are

01:43:08 continuing the hearings today, I'll just confirm that

01:43:11 that in fact is an acceptable date, and then we can

01:43:14 move on from there.

01:43:15 >> That's fine.




01:43:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So at the end of the day we are

01:43:22 playing judge in this one.

01:43:24 We can set it when we feel it's appropriate to set it.

01:43:26 >> The hearing?

01:43:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No.

01:43:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, in the sense that there's some

01:43:32 sort of conflict with the bargaining units being able

01:43:34 to come together to make a presentation to council,

01:43:36 then you would want to have the parties here on the

01:43:40 date that you set the hearing.

01:43:42 >> Right.

01:43:44 But last time I was in court when the judge said this

01:43:46 is when the hearing is going to be, the parties get

01:43:48 there.

01:43:49 So I don't understand what this is really about.

01:43:51 >> Basically, the only thing this was about ultimately

01:43:54 was the fact that Mr. Fletcher informed City Council

01:43:57 that it came to his attention that it wasn't until

01:43:59 yesterday that the PBA bargaining unit receive what

01:44:03 council's procedures would be, and that there may be

01:44:05 some questions between now and then which could be

01:44:07 addressed.




01:44:09 That's the only thing.

01:44:09 So I am just going to double check.

01:44:11 >> To address councilman Dingfelder's comment, you all

01:44:16 have an obligation, as soon as you receive notice that

01:44:20 there is rejection of the special magistrate report to

01:44:22 set the special hearing forth with.

01:44:24 You all have done that.

01:44:25 I feel that you met your statutory obligation.

01:44:28 If there's a scheduling problem, we can work on that.

01:44:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Ill just double check as soon as we

01:44:34 clear the agenda.

01:44:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's fine.

01:44:36 We'll hold off on that.

01:44:38 No problem at all.

01:44:42 Let me clear up a few items.

01:44:44 One is item 49.

01:44:45 I think we need to remove that from the agenda.

01:44:47 The applicant has withdrawn that, as I understand.

01:44:49 Correct?

01:44:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.

01:44:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

01:44:56 Second by councilman Caetano that item 49 be withdrawn.




01:44:59 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

01:45:01 Opposes?

01:45:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe item 54, is the

01:45:05 petitioner's representative here, to discuss item 54?

01:45:08 >> My understanding item 54, they are withdrawing that

01:45:10 item.

01:45:11 Are they here?

01:45:12 Someone from staff?

01:45:13 Are you aware there's a letter, e-mail, fax, phone

01:45:17 call?

01:45:18 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.

01:45:21 An e-mail was received by the petitioner's agent, and

01:45:25 they are requesting to withdraw the petition.

01:45:27 And that was done this morning.

01:45:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 54.

01:45:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: May we have a motion?

01:45:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to remove item 54.

01:45:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Caetano.

01:45:38 All in favor?

01:45:39 Opposes?

01:45:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And then we have item 57 and 58,

01:45:43 Mr. Chairman.




01:45:46 I . item 57 and 58 could not be heard.

01:45:49 Scheduled for when?

01:45:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With regard to item 578, I believe is

01:45:53 petitioner's representative here on item number 57?

01:45:57 I see none.

01:45:57 And I believe -- and if the clerk will confirm this,

01:46:01 this has already been previously reset to this date.

01:46:06 I don't know that for a fact.

01:46:09 I was informed by Mrs. Marshall of that, that it was

01:46:13 done.

01:46:14 But I will confirm that.

01:46:15 That being the case, it would be pursuant to 27-373,

01:46:21 failure to perfect notice required for the reschedule

01:46:23 appeal hearing shall result in the appeal being denied.

01:46:28 If you can pass that and I'll confirm that and then we

01:46:32 will be able to move to that.

01:46:33 With regard to 58, did they pay the amendment fee on

01:46:36 58?

01:46:37 You don't know that either.

01:46:39 That cannot be heard.

01:46:41 If that can be removed from the agenda it will be

01:46:43 rescheduled.




01:46:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The motion to remove 58 from the

01:46:47 agenda for rescheduling.

01:46:48 >> Second.

01:46:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

01:46:50 All in favor of? Opposes?

01:46:52 Thank you.

01:46:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And I will check on 57.

01:46:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

01:46:59 That takes us to item 51.

01:47:03 Item 51.

01:47:04 If you are going to be speaking today before council,

01:47:06 will you stand and be sworn?

01:47:08 If you are going to be speaking, addressing council,

01:47:11 stand and be sworn.

01:47:12 (Oath administered by Clerk)

01:47:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to open?

01:47:25 Miranda so moved, all of the items on the rest of the

01:47:28 agenda.

01:47:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by Councilwoman

01:47:30 Mulhern.

01:47:32 All in favor?

01:47:33 Opposes?




01:47:34 Thank you.

01:47:34 Item 51.

01:47:35 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.

01:47:38 C 09-08 is a vacating petition by university of Tampa

01:47:43 and BSS properties to vacate a portion of north "A"

01:47:47 street and alley.

01:47:49 I have a map for the overhead.

01:48:03 The petitioner's property is shown in red, and the

01:48:07 street and alley to be vacated are shown in yellow on

01:48:09 the map.

01:48:11 They are requesting to vacate a portion of north "A"

01:48:13 street, lying between Boulevard and Brevard street and

01:48:18 alley as well, and this is north of Kennedy and north

01:48:22 "B."

01:48:23 Staff objects to the north "A" street portion being

01:48:27 vacated because of the brick street situation.

01:48:31 And staff has no objection to the alley.

01:48:33 And I do have photos.

01:48:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can I just interrupt for a minute?

01:48:45 I was speaking with the attorney this morning.

01:48:47 He said we can't take action on item 51 until we hear

01:48:50 item 52.




01:48:51 So maybe we should proceed with 52 since that seems to

01:48:54 be the issue.

01:48:55 >> They told me they wanted this presented first and

01:48:59 then could you go to 52, but whatever you want to do.

01:49:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I was told that we should take

01:49:05 up item 52 first.

01:49:07 At least Mr. Shelby told me that.

01:49:08 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.

01:49:10 I think what the intent is that item 51 and 52 are tied

01:49:13 in the sense that you can vacate this property, but

01:49:19 since there's a brick street associated with it, so

01:49:24 before they can do anything with the property would

01:49:26 have to approve the relocation of the brick.

01:49:30 But what we have deeded is that while the resolution

01:49:33 under the brick street ordinance and disturbing the

01:49:36 brick street is in front of you today, we have been

01:49:38 requesting that you go ahead, if you want to approve

01:49:41 the vacation on first reading, that you continue the

01:49:43 brick street ordinance -- I'm sorry, the brick street

01:49:47 resolution on second reading.

01:49:49 So I'm not sure if the advice was to go ahead and put

01:49:53 them both together and then continue item 52 which is




01:49:57 the brick street issue, or to do something different.

01:50:01 But I wouldn't recommend that we actually approve the

01:50:04 resolution on the brick street until second reading of

01:50:07 the ordinance.

01:50:10 So I think at this point why don't we go ahead and move

01:50:14 forward with the vacation?

01:50:15 Let me double check with Mr. Shelby to find out the

01:50:18 procedure he would like to utilize.

01:50:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, my conversation with Mr. Shelby

01:50:22 just before we started, his recommendation was that

01:50:24 when take up item 52 first ---

01:50:28 >>JULIA COLE: And then continue it?

01:50:29 >> Well, take up 52 and we could not do anything with

01:50:32 it until both items, both items.

01:50:36 >>JULIA COLE: That's what I want to make sure with Mr.

01:50:39 Shelby.

01:50:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But he recommended we take up item 52

01:50:42 first.

01:50:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, I apologize, council.

01:50:46 Item 52 is displacement of the brick streets.

01:50:49 51 is to vacate.

01:50:50 If you want could you hear them both together.




01:50:56 But my point was, to bring it to council's attention

01:50:59 that number 52 is a motion by resolution.

01:51:01 And my suggestion would be that that only requires one

01:51:04 vote, that rather than vote on that and pass that and

01:51:06 have the other one hanging out there, that you continue

01:51:10 number 52 to the date of the second reading.

01:51:12 That was really my concern.

01:51:13 >> Do you want me to continue?

01:51:18 >> Okay.

01:51:19 Fine, yes.

01:51:20 Go ahead.

01:51:20 >> The first shot is of the alley, and this is the

01:51:35 alley looking east on North Boulevard, the next shot is

01:51:38 north "A" street, the brick street.

01:51:40 This is looking west from Brevard Avenue.

01:51:43 And then another shot of the brick street from North

01:51:49 Boulevard.

01:51:50 And these are shots of the petitioner's property.

01:51:52 This is north "A" street and Brevard Avenue.

01:51:57 This is the northwest corner of Brevard, north "A"

01:52:01 street.

01:52:06 Northeast corner of "A" and North Boulevard.




01:52:10 This is the property, southeast corner of north "A" and

01:52:14 Brevard.

01:52:14 And this is the property lying south of the alley.

01:52:21 Property line south of the alley.

01:52:25 If this is approved on the north "A" street, the brick

01:52:29 portion, build -- urban design has asked that stay

01:52:36 intact and preserved over north "B" street so it would

01:52:39 still function as a street.

01:52:40 And we have done this previously in this same area.

01:52:43 I have a little graph.

01:52:47 In '99 we vacated north "B."

01:52:51 That was a brick street as well.

01:52:53 That's still in tact and has utility easements over it

01:52:57 so this would be a similar situation.

01:52:59 And then to release it, they would have to go through

01:53:04 release of easement.

01:53:05 >>MARY MULHERN: Can you explain to me what that would

01:53:08 mean if we vacated -- reserved the easement, does that

01:53:12 mean the street has to remain open, and intact?

01:53:18 >> Yes.

01:53:19 That's the point.

01:53:20 Urban design has requested that an agenda ordinance




01:53:22 that the street brick stay intact and stay functioning

01:53:27 as a street.

01:53:29 >>MARY MULHERN: So it has to remain open to the

01:53:32 public, and the bricks have to stay?

01:53:34 >> Yes.

01:53:35 I think there's a protection in the ordinance for the

01:53:38 bricks.

01:53:40 If they are pulled up they have to return them to the

01:53:42 city.

01:53:42 But at this point, the urban design people have

01:53:45 requested that the grid stay intact.

01:53:47 >> The grid stay intact but what about the bricks?

01:53:50 >> I think that's what they mean.

01:53:51 I think anything to do -- maybe could you explain it.

01:53:56 If they want to go through and release this and get rid

01:53:58 of that street, they would have to do a release of

01:54:01 easement which would go before transportation.

01:54:03 But I don't think that's their intent. John Grandoff

01:54:07 is here.

01:54:07 He is the petitioner's representative.

01:54:09 Maybe he could give more --

01:54:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I'm just wondering, define the




01:54:15 easement for me.

01:54:17 Maybe Julie can do that.

01:54:20 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.

01:54:23 If this code is from right-of-way, which it is right

01:54:25 now and that's what they are requesting vacation from,

01:54:28 it changes.

01:54:30 The property rights to that portion of the property out

01:54:33 of the city to the private property owner.

01:54:35 However, if there is an easement retained over that

01:54:38 area, the City of Tampa would have the right to utilize

01:54:41 that easement, if it's a public transportation easement

01:54:44 that is retained, then the public would have the right

01:54:46 to go over that property.

01:54:49 If it is a utility easement we have the right to have

01:54:52 utility there.

01:54:53 So we still have whatever rights are retained within

01:54:55 the easement.

01:54:57 It's just the underlying property right then just goes

01:55:00 back to the adjoining property.

01:55:02 >> So that means that they could remove the brick,

01:55:06 because they own it?

01:55:08 >>JULIA COLE: Well, no, because you also have an




01:55:11 ordinance in your code that if there are bricks that

01:55:18 are located in a particular property, even public or

01:55:21 private, then you would have to go through the brick

01:55:23 street ordinance process in order to displace those

01:55:26 bricks.

01:55:26 >> Which does allow -- we vote on that, that number

01:55:35 fifty --

01:55:37 >> That's correct.

01:55:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If you could have that put back up.

01:55:43 (off microphone)

01:55:46 What I'm looking at to the west, and north "A" to the

01:55:55 east, and then you have a cross section, that

01:55:59 cross-section street in red doesn't go through.

01:56:02 It just dead-ends into north "B."

01:56:07 You either go right or left, right?

01:56:09 Now let me ask you another question on the north "A"

01:56:12 portion.

01:56:12 That is not in yellow.

01:56:14 That would be the eastern part of it.

01:56:16 That dead-ends at the university?

01:56:18 Or does that go through?

01:56:19 >>> That was vacated years ago.




01:56:22 That does not go through.

01:56:23 I don't know if the brick street -- they may be using

01:56:28 the brick street on campus but it's not a

01:56:31 transportation easement, not a public street.

01:56:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I can hardly hear you.

01:56:35 >> This portion you are talking about here, that was

01:56:39 vacated years ago, and I'm sorry I don't know if it

01:56:43 functions as a street out there but it's not a public

01:56:46 easement for a street.

01:56:47 >> But it's still brick.

01:56:49 >> It may be.

01:56:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Because on the corner was the old

01:56:53 Valencia Gardens.

01:56:55 And then that little alley people used to take a

01:56:59 shortcut to make a right to the light at Kennedy.

01:57:02 So on the northern part of the property is a parking

01:57:08 garage, on north "A."

01:57:09 >> I think so.

01:57:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And that street runs along this.

01:57:17 Miranda and you have a street that runs -- what I'm

01:57:20 saying is if any citizen was to take north "A," and the

01:57:25 corner of North Boulevard, heading east, you couldn't




01:57:31 go too far.

01:57:32 >> No.

01:57:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's all.

01:57:35 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Address suite 3700 Bank of America

01:57:48 Plaza.

01:57:49 And I have the pleasure of representing university of

01:57:51 Tampa this afternoon.

01:57:52 I'm joined by Mr. Gorick, vice-president of

01:57:57 administration and finance.

01:57:58 Could you please raise your hand?

01:58:01 On the brick street issue through an ordinance, the

01:58:04 city controls bricks that are in public rights-of-way.

01:58:07 The bricks are going to remain.

01:58:09 The street grid is going to remain.

01:58:11 We aren't going to change the street grid.

01:58:13 And there are easements reserved for transportation,

01:58:15 water, other utilities, other private utilities, on all

01:58:19 of these roads and also on the alley.

01:58:21 So as a procedural matter you have to have a public

01:58:25 hearing to determine what will happen if the brick

01:58:27 streets -- if the bricks are going to be removed.

01:58:31 That's what the brick street ordinance contemplates.




01:58:35 We are not doing that.

01:58:36 In fact, the ordinance vacating the right-of-way also

01:58:39 has a section, section 5, which requires us to notify

01:58:44 the city if those bricks are going to be removed, and

01:58:47 the city has a right to come claim them.

01:58:50 The university is very proud of the brick streets that

01:58:53 surround the campus, and certainly they will be

01:58:56 retained.

01:58:57 I have nothing further to add or request other than you

01:59:00 approve the application.

01:59:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder, then councilman

01:59:05 Miranda.

01:59:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Get to that silly notion of the

01:59:08 public purpose.

01:59:09 But the university is not giving up the public

01:59:14 right-of-way, what is the public purpose?

01:59:16 What are you doing?

01:59:17 >> The city is being asked to vacate the right-of-way.

01:59:22 And it will then be owned by the university.

01:59:26 >> Why?

01:59:27 What's the reason?

01:59:29 >> The university owns both sides of the right-of-way




01:59:32 on the alley portion and also on north bay.

01:59:34 The dormitory and the garage on the north side of north

01:59:37 bay.

01:59:38 >> So --

01:59:40 >> They have acquired that.

01:59:42 To fulfill the campus purpose and to fulfill the

01:59:45 school's future plans, extending to Boulevard and

01:59:49 Kennedy, that it would be better to have control over

01:59:53 those rights-of-way, and to better plan for the school.

01:59:58 And the alley will be closed, but the right-of-way of

02:00:01 north "A" will remain open, and in fact the school

02:00:04 contemplates instituting two-way traffic again on north

02:00:07 "A" to help when students are arriving in the fall to

02:00:10 better manage moving into dormitories.

02:00:12 Right now it's one way west.

02:00:14 So the public purpose is achieved by doing that.

02:00:17 And you have a very good steward of the land who will

02:00:19 be managing both rights-of-way subject to public and

02:00:23 private easements.

02:00:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here's my only concern.

02:00:29 And Julia, it might be a concern aimed at you.

02:00:35 As regard to the easement, okay, it's the -- if the




02:00:39 city is granted under all of this, the city would

02:00:41 retain the transportation easement.

02:00:44 But then at some later date the school says, by the

02:00:46 way, we want to build a building on top of the street.

02:00:52 So then they would come to the city and ask us to give

02:00:55 up the easement.

02:00:58 And I sort of anticipate the long-term plan might be

02:01:01 something along these lines.

02:01:02 Otherwise, I wouldn't know why you would be going

02:01:04 through all this.

02:01:05 So if that's the case, Julia, would that come back to

02:01:11 council to give up the easement?

02:01:13 Or is that just an administrative decision?

02:01:17 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.

02:01:18 That is an action of council.

02:01:19 It would have to come through a process which is

02:01:22 resolution to remove the easement approved by City

02:01:26 Council after recommendation from staff.

02:01:28 >> Because I thought I heard earlier, there was

02:01:32 something along the lines that they would come to the

02:01:35 administration or come to the city and ask for that.

02:01:38 >>JULIA COLE: They would come to the city and ask to




02:01:44 for the easement but that does take an action of

02:01:46 council.

02:01:46 >> But not a public hearing?

02:01:47 >> Not a public hearing.

02:01:50 The consent agenda.

02:01:52 And it goes through a process under which -- it is

02:01:55 reviewed, for example, by our transportation staff,

02:01:59 whether or not there's still a need for easement and

02:02:01 also some of the other utilities and TECO, et cetera,

02:02:05 utilities in that area, which have the request to

02:02:09 remove the easement.

02:02:10 This particular ordinance holds a variety of different

02:02:14 easements, utility, TECO, Verizon, also a public

02:02:19 transportation easement, but that can be removed.

02:02:26 >> I guess I have a little bit of concern is it

02:02:37 possible we could modify that to require that it be a

02:02:39 public hearing at some future date, you know, down the

02:02:44 road instead of just being a consent agenda?

02:02:47 Because if it's on the consent agenda, nobody might

02:02:50 have even realized that it's there or anything like

02:02:52 that.

02:02:53 But at least if it's public hearing, it's public




02:02:56 hearing just like today.

02:02:58 So I don't know that there be a problem with that.

02:03:00 But anyway, we can think about it whale we are having

02:03:03 this discussion.

02:03:03 >>MARY MULHERN: John, I don't know if you were here,

02:03:09 but item 52 we discussed already, which is asking to

02:03:16 displace the brick street.

02:03:21 The right-of-way.

02:03:22 Is that the one on 52?

02:03:25 No, we are doing 51, right?

02:03:27 >> That's right.

02:03:27 >>MARY MULHERN: On 51 -- well, you should look at it.

02:03:33 On 51, the background in the staff report -- I didn't

02:03:39 mean it to sound like that.

02:03:42 The University of Tampa, Inc., owns property on both

02:03:45 sides of north A street and the alley and desires to

02:03:49 consolidate the property for development.

02:03:53 BSS properties LLC owns property on both sides and

02:03:57 wants to consolidate as well.

02:03:58 I think it's clear, and it sounds to me, an it seems

02:04:03 logical to me that the only way that you would need to

02:04:06 vacate a public street would be to develop it.




02:04:11 And I guess that's the same question councilman

02:04:14 Dingfelder asked.

02:04:15 >>> Or control it.

02:04:18 Not necessarily build on it but control it.

02:04:19 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.

02:04:22 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: All of the utilities that are in the

02:04:25 ground today will remain in the ground today.

02:04:27 They are protected by the easement reserved in the

02:04:30 ordinance.

02:04:34 The transportation that goes on north "A," for

02:04:40 instance, will still continue today, one-way west, of

02:04:43 course.

02:04:43 It gives the school better way to manage the traffic on

02:04:46 the campus, and to control and secure the campus

02:04:50 property.

02:04:50 >>MARY MULHERN: I have another concern, and I know we

02:04:56 are not voting on the bricks right now, but this

02:04:58 becomes possible if we -- I guess it's a question, if

02:05:03 it becomes possible if we vacate the street, if they

02:05:07 can then pave over the brick.

02:05:09 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: That's taken care of.

02:05:12 Let me read the ordinance to you.




02:05:13 Section 5 of the ordinance on page 4, it says that if

02:05:16 any of the rights-of-way hereby consist of vitrified

02:05:20 brick or granite curbing which you have, that such

02:05:23 vitrified brick roads and granite curb will remain

02:05:28 unaltered unless removal or replace.

02:05:31 Of the brick roads and granite are set forth by the

02:05:36 City of Tampa transportation manual as may be amended

02:05:40 from time to time for public rights-of-way.

02:05:41 If any of the vitrified brick and granite are removed

02:05:45 for the vacating of the right-of-way and cause to be

02:05:47 delivered all vitrified bricks and granite to the City

02:05:52 of Tampa department of public works.

02:05:55 >>MARY MULHERN: As I understand that, Julia, can this

02:05:57 then be decided administratively that they can remove

02:06:01 the bricks, but have to return them to the city?

02:06:04 Or does that come back to council?

02:06:06 >>JULIA COLE: This language that's in the ordinance

02:06:14 does seem to provide that not withstanding the

02:06:18 resolution you have in front of you, which I think does

02:06:21 change things, this would be something going through

02:06:25 this brick street ordinance process would be required

02:06:28 if in the future they wanted to remove the bricks.




02:06:31 The thing is what's coming after it is the resolution

02:06:35 relating to the brick street ordinance, that we would

02:06:38 be answering this question as part of this process.

02:06:42 Because what is in front of you, the resolution is so

02:06:45 they have the authority to remove the brick streets.

02:06:47 >> That was my question.

02:06:49 So if we vacate, then they can't remove the bricks.

02:06:53 >> If you approve the resolution granting them the

02:06:57 right to remove the brick, then they could remove the

02:07:00 brick.

02:07:00 >> And they have asked for that resolution, and it's

02:07:04 the next thing on our agenda.

02:07:06 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: The last section in section 5 says

02:07:10 pursuant to ordinance 193 which is your brick street

02:07:13 orthopedics, displacement of a brick street is subject

02:07:15 to council approval after a public hearing to displace

02:07:18 the brick street.

02:07:19 Now this is all academic because we are going to take

02:07:22 up item number 52, and what I am going to tell you on

02:07:25 item number 52 we are not going to remove the bricks.

02:07:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, that was the other question that

02:07:30 I don't think was answered because this is what's




02:07:32 happened in Ybor City, and quite an upcry recently, was

02:07:38 that the bricks weren't removed, but they were paved

02:07:41 over.

02:07:41 And once they are paved over, there's no protection.

02:07:45 I mean, they are paved over and that's it.

02:07:47 The city has no intention of restoring the street.

02:07:52 And if it were vacated, the owner wouldn't have any

02:07:55 requirement.

02:07:58 >> This ordinance, I can't say about the other

02:08:04 situation.

02:08:04 Two things can happen to the brick.

02:08:06 One, this council can approve, and that's the next item

02:08:08 in front of you, the ability to alter or remove the

02:08:12 bricks.

02:08:12 The second thing is after that, say that was approved,

02:08:19 the University of Tampa would then be required not to

02:08:22 just pave oaf the brick, they would actually have to

02:08:24 pull it up, palletize it and give it back to the city.

02:08:32 The way this ordinance is drafted in front of you right

02:08:34 now.

02:08:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thanks, Mr. Chairman.

02:08:39 I just want to give praise to the university of Tampa.




02:08:43 They have come for us many times and they have always

02:08:47 said what their intentions, and did what their

02:08:51 intention was.

02:08:52 For instance, many years ago, I think some of us were

02:08:55 on council when they had their first expansion, and

02:08:58 there was a big oak tree.

02:09:02 And they moved that oak tree, an expense of over

02:09:05 200,000, two oak trees.

02:09:08 But I remember that.

02:09:14 It's always stayed in my mind.

02:09:16 This university has come through and always provided

02:09:21 whatever they said they were going to do, they did.

02:09:25 What I'm saying here is, when you cut through that

02:09:32 street heading nowhere, because you have got to make a

02:09:35 right to get out.

02:09:36 In other words you have to drive in a circle, so to

02:09:41 speak of.

02:09:41 So what I'm saying is, the closing of the street is one

02:09:44 thing.

02:09:44 I understand the bricks.

02:09:48 There's still going to be an easement for all the

02:09:50 utilities that are there, that cannot be giving




02:09:55 uprights because it services not only the university

02:09:57 but I'm sure other individuals and other businesses

02:10:00 along that corridor.

02:10:04 And these are the reasons that I'm saying that this

02:10:08 university has, that I know of, no intentions to harm

02:10:13 anyone, not to do anything that would be a disgrace to

02:10:19 them.

02:10:27 After I left there it was in the top 30 universities in

02:10:30 the country.

02:10:30 Notice I said that was after I left there.

02:10:32 So they have done very well for the area.

02:10:41 They have grown by leaps and bounds.

02:10:43 And this time in society is one of the few, I guess,

02:10:46 that are really keeping the model going forward and

02:10:56 people being very well educated at the University of

02:10:58 Tampa.

02:10:59 Thank you.

02:11:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is a public hearing.

02:11:02 Does anyone wish to address council?

02:11:03 It's a public hearing.

02:11:04 >> If there's nobody else.

02:11:13 John, I don't have a problem with vacating it.




02:11:15 I don't have a problem with our ordinance as it relates

02:11:18 to brick because I think our ordinance protects the

02:11:22 brick ultimately.

02:11:25 It's my understanding the way the ordinance reads is if

02:11:27 you are going to pave over the brick or tear it up or

02:11:30 whatever, that you have to give the brick back.

02:11:32 And the curbs.

02:11:34 Is that your understanding?

02:11:36 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: That's right.

02:11:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My only concern as I stated earlier

02:11:41 was the reason I'm comfortable with vacating it is

02:11:45 because you are leaving it pretty much the same way it

02:11:47 is, you are leaving a transportation easement over it

02:11:49 so I can continue to cut through those streets.

02:11:51 >> Both ways.

02:11:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But at some point that might

02:11:57 change, okay.

02:11:58 And would the university have any qualms if we somehow

02:12:03 included language in there that said that it would come

02:12:05 back as a public hearing before this body if that

02:12:11 change came about at some future date, when you wanted

02:12:14 to were asking us to release the easement.




02:12:18 >>> You still have the transportation easement.

02:12:21 Let me talk to Rick.

02:12:22 >> But as long as it's a public hearing, some future

02:12:25 date, 10, 20 years from now, I'm fine with that because

02:12:29 the public hearing brings it up to this level of

02:12:32 discourse that I think is healthy when you are talking

02:12:35 about preserving our streets like that.

02:12:37 >> You would want to put it in as part of the

02:12:42 reservation of the transportation easement that any

02:12:44 future release would be subject to public hearing,

02:12:47 something to that effect?

02:12:48 >> Right.

02:12:49 To be fair to the community.

02:12:51 Obviously I'm just joke being cutting through.

02:12:55 You're okay with it?

02:12:57 >> That's fine.

02:12:58 As my observation I have walked the entire campus

02:13:00 preparing for this, and it's a complete brick street

02:13:05 campus, all over the place.

02:13:06 I have got to believe --

02:13:07 >> It would be very expensive.

02:13:09 >> But we'll come see you if we change our mind.




02:13:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close?

02:13:16 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to say that I'm really

02:13:19 proud of university of Tampa, and take people to see it

02:13:22 every time they come visit and try to get my nieces and

02:13:25 nephews to look at it as a possible school, not to

02:13:29 mention my own kids.

02:13:35 But I do worry about we don't know what's going to

02:13:38 happen in the future, and we have seen the character of

02:13:42 your campus, the history and the brick streets, but I

02:13:49 do worry what may happen in the future if we leave it

02:13:52 open.

02:13:53 So I think I'll be okay with Mr. Dingfelder's

02:13:57 amendment.

02:13:57 >> I'll see if Julie can write that back on another

02:14:02 first reading.

02:14:05 Let me see what she wants to do.

02:14:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close?

02:14:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.

02:14:10 >> Second.

02:14:10 >> All in favor say Aye.

02:14:12 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.

02:14:14 I'm not sure of this particular condition if it's a




02:14:19 legal issue to have it in the ordinance.

02:14:20 I don't have a necessarily problem with it.

02:14:23 I want to say for the purposes of record that this is a

02:14:25 process we would be putting in this ordinance, outside

02:14:27 the norm, and I just do have a little concern that if

02:14:32 I'm still here and other people will remember it, but

02:14:35 at some point in the future it could get missed in

02:14:37 terms of the ordinance, because it's not within our

02:14:39 normal processes.

02:14:42 I think what I would like to be able to do is draft the

02:14:45 language into the ordinance.

02:14:46 I'll bring it back at second reading.

02:14:48 But I also wants to make sure I can talk with staff to

02:14:52 find out how they can track that language.

02:14:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We can move forward on first

02:14:57 reading.

02:14:57 >> It has to come back anyway.

02:15:00 Even if you didn't add anything it would have to come

02:15:03 back anyway.

02:15:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, it comes back usually on the

02:15:05 consent docket as a -- as a resolution, in

02:15:11 transportation.




02:15:13 >>JULIA COLE: The abandonment of the easement would

02:15:16 come back on your agenda as a resolution.

02:15:18 What would need to be insured is that there would be

02:15:21 some opportunity to move it into a different part of

02:15:25 the agenda and a different process, and I'm making my

02:15:29 statement for the record, because I heard what you all

02:15:32 want to put in here, and I don't necessarily have a

02:15:35 problem with it.

02:15:36 I have a little issue as it relates procedurally how we

02:15:38 would track that.

02:15:39 I will go ahead and during first and second reading

02:15:42 make the change in the ordinance and discuss with staff

02:15:45 the best way to track that particular type of

02:15:47 provision.

02:15:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I agree with everything you said.

02:15:51 However, I have a little skepticism regarding consent

02:15:54 agendas.

02:15:57 Whoever is here should know what's on their committee

02:16:00 and should read all, their consent agenda only after

02:16:04 all of us agree that whoever is chair is that we have

02:16:08 the faith in them.

02:16:10 But, anyway, I want to thank you for McKay




02:16:14 auditorium, Plant Park, for those of us who remember

02:16:17 those landmarks.

02:16:19 They are all gone in May.

02:16:22 Mr. Chairman, I move an ordinance vacating, closing,

02:16:23 discontinuing, abandoning a certain right-of-way, all

02:16:27 that portion of north "A" street lying north of Kennedy

02:16:30 Boulevard, south of north "B" street north of Boulevard

02:16:35 and west of Brevard Avenue, and all that alleyway lying

02:16:39 north of Kennedy Boulevard, south of north "A" street,

02:16:43 east of North Boulevard, and west of Brevard Avenue, in

02:16:46 Haydens subdivision, in section 2 therefore, subject to

02:16:53 the reservation of certain easements asset forth herein

02:16:56 certain to comments, restrictions and conditions as

02:16:59 more particularly described herein providing an

02:17:01 effective date.

02:17:01 >> Does that include the amendment?

02:17:06 >> That includes whatever was said.

02:17:08 >> Second.

02:17:09 >>MARY MULHERN: This is first reading but comes back

02:17:11 as a resolution?

02:17:12 >> No.

02:17:13 It comes back with the additional items that council




02:17:16 asked of if they are legally possible.

02:17:19 >>MARY MULHERN: So how are he would doing first

02:17:21 reading, and then we are going to do another first

02:17:23 reading?

02:17:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The title is the same.

02:17:25 You are actually directing the legal department to add

02:17:27 language that would create the process of abandoning an

02:17:32 easement by public hearing as opposed to something that

02:17:35 would be done by resolution.

02:17:36 Then it will come back again as amend ad by council per

02:17:41 your direction for second reading and adoption public

02:17:44 hearing.

02:17:44 You are only reading it by title today.

02:17:46 The title will not change.

02:17:48 You can do maintenance change between first and second

02:17:52 reading.

02:17:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll second it then.

02:17:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

02:17:56 All in favor?

02:17:57 Opposes?

02:17:58 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being

02:18:00 absent.




02:18:00 The second reading of the ordinance will be held

02:18:04 December 3rd at 9:30 a.m.

02:18:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: By the way with, as a matter of

02:18:13 disclosure my stepmother teaches at U.T. and we love

02:18:17 the Spartans.

02:18:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

02:18:24 Item 52.

02:18:26 That's where we need to continue that one?

02:18:30 Anyone who wishes to address council on item 52.

02:18:32 Anyone wishing to address council on 52?

02:18:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to continue to December 3rd.

02:18:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.

02:18:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved by Councilwoman Miller, seconded

02:18:42 by Councilwoman Mulhern had, to continue the item to

02:18:45 December 3rd.

02:18:48 Same time as item 51.

02:18:50 Whatever time of that is.

02:18:51 9:30.

02:18:53 Moved and seconded.

02:18:55 All in favor?

02:18:56 Opposes?

02:18:56 Okay.




02:19:01 Item 53.

02:19:01 >> Barbara Lynch, Land Development Coordination.

02:19:11 This is vacating for a portion of Ybor street.

02:19:15 I have a map to put on the overhead.

02:19:24 Again petitioner's property is in red and the vacating

02:19:26 is in yellow.

02:19:27 This is an alley, it was actually a street at one time

02:19:31 that was narrowed by previous vacating and I'll show

02:19:35 you a graph in a second, from a 50 F.W. Woolworth

02:19:38 right-of-way and they did it in the whole subdivision.

02:19:41 This is between Cayuga, and runs from Florida to

02:19:46 Suwannee.

02:19:47 I have some pictures of this.

02:19:49 I'll show you real quick.

02:19:54 It was a 50-foot right-of-way when it was originally

02:20:00 platted and they narrowed it down to a 50-foot alley,

02:20:02 the whole length of the subdivision, about eight

02:20:05 blocks, and was outlined in red on there is the

02:20:08 portions of the street that were vacated.

02:20:11 It was about 1933 when they did that.

02:20:13 >> That's from 50 to 15?

02:20:15 >> Yes.




02:20:16 I think they did it because it has two streets running.

02:20:19 They would have had Florida, and then when it was Ybor

02:20:22 street which is now the alley and then Cayuga so they

02:20:26 reduced that street down to a mere alley.

02:20:34 I have some photos. This is the alley looking south

02:20:35 from Cayuga street.

02:20:39 That portion is improved.

02:20:42 And this is north looking on Emma street.

02:20:51 And these are some of the abutting properties.

02:20:55 This is the northwest corner of Emma and Suwannee.

02:21:03 This is petitioner's property at the corner of Cayuga

02:21:08 and Suwannee.

02:21:12 This is the petitioner's property again at the corner

02:21:15 of Suwannee and Cayuga.

02:21:18 This is another of the abutting properties.

02:21:22 This is the petitioner's property the northeast corner

02:21:25 of Florida Avenue and Emma street, not abutting the

02:21:28 portion.

02:21:32 And the alley does not continue to the north.

02:21:34 But it does continue to the south.

02:21:35 And here is a photo of the alley looking south at Emma

02:21:39 street.




02:21:39 This portion is not going to be vacated.

02:21:48 Staff has no objections to the request with

02:21:53 reservations by Verizon, TECO gas.

02:21:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I never knew Ybor street was that

02:22:03 far north.

02:22:03 I thought it ended.

02:22:05 >> Maybe it was just by the plat because wave to use

02:22:08 the plat name when we call these, and they have various

02:22:10 names on them that can be changed.

02:22:12 >> I never knew that part existed.

02:22:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?

02:22:20 >> I'm Karen McDuffie, petitioner for the property.

02:22:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We are listening.

02:22:38 Go ahead.

02:22:38 >> Are you finished?

02:22:39 >> I didn't know if you had any questions.

02:22:40 >> Anyone from the public wish to address council?

02:22:44 Councilman Dingfelder.

02:22:45 >> In the explanation, it says you are requesting the

02:22:53 closing to prevent dumping and criminal activity.

02:22:56 And then I was looking at the pictures, an it looks

02:23:01 pretty clean and Spruced up and everything directly




02:23:03 behind your building.

02:23:05 I'm just wondering, what are you experiencing that's

02:23:10 creating this petition?

02:23:12 >> We have had kids that come and pray on the property.

02:23:17 There's actually a dock back there.

02:23:21 They are playing back there.

02:23:22 We have had several cars that were dumped back there,

02:23:26 found out later they were stolen.

02:23:28 Trash in general.

02:23:29 Old sofas, and just trash in general.

02:23:32 >> So you want it on both sides of the alley behind

02:23:35 your building?

02:23:36 >> I do.

02:23:37 >> All right, thank you.

02:23:44 >> Any other questions?

02:23:46 Anyone else from the public?

02:23:48 Close the public hearing?

02:23:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.

02:23:51 >> Second.

02:23:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Close the public hearing.

02:23:53 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

02:23:55 Opposes?




02:23:56 Okay.

02:23:57 Councilwoman Mulhern, read the ordinance.

02:23:58 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance vacating, closing,

02:24:04 discontinuing, an abandoning certain rights-of-way all

02:24:07 that portion of Ybor street south of east Cayuga street

02:24:11 north of east Emma street, east of north Florida and

02:24:14 west of north Suwannee Avenue, in Leslie's plat on the

02:24:17 west half of subdivision in the city of Tampa, Florida

02:24:20 the same being more fully described in section 2 hereof

02:24:23 subject to the reservation of certain easements as set

02:24:25 forth herein subject to certain covenants, conditions

02:24:28 and restrictions as more particularly described herein

02:24:31 providing an effective date.

02:24:32 >> Second.

02:24:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.

02:24:37 All in favor?

02:24:39 Opposes?

02:24:39 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being

02:24:42 absent.

02:24:42 Second reading of the ordinance will be held December

02:24:45 3rd at 9:30 a.m. a.

02:24:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I voted no.




02:24:49 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Dingfelder voting

02:24:53 no and Saul-Sena being absent.

02:24:55 >> My hand was up to ask a question but -- sorry.

02:25:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 55.

02:25:10 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.

02:25:26 I have been sworn.

02:25:27 The next item on the agenda is petition V 09-4030 for

02:25:31 the property located at 3924 Spruce Street.

02:25:34 The property is currently zoned CI commercial

02:25:36 intensive.

02:25:38 The proposed special use is for alcoholic beverage

02:25:40 sales, small venue, 2(COP), which allows for the sale

02:25:45 of alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises

02:25:48 and in sealed containers for consumption off the

02:25:50 premises.

02:25:51 The existing one-story structure contains 37,470 square

02:25:55 feet.

02:25:56 The proposed special use will contain 7,781 square

02:26:00 feet.

02:26:01 A total of 56 parking spaces are required and 66

02:26:05 parking spaces have been provided.

02:26:07 This site was approved for alcoholic beverage sales




02:26:09 under a one-year conditional approval with conditions

02:26:12 which are listed in the staff report.

02:26:14 The current request is for a permanent approval without

02:26:18 conditions.

02:26:24 And this is an aerial of the site.

02:26:28 This is the site located here with Platt to the north,

02:26:34 Grady west of the site, this is Dale Mabry east of the

02:26:37 site.

02:26:41 The north end of the site.

02:26:44 To the east.

02:26:46 Another view of the site that's looking east on Spruce.

02:26:58 Another view.

02:27:02 That's the site looking south.

02:27:06 Development review committee has reviewed the petition

02:27:08 and finds it consistent with the City of Tampa land

02:27:12 development regulations.

02:27:14 That concludes staff's presentation.

02:27:15 I'm available if you have any questions.

02:27:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions from council?

02:27:21 Officer Miller?

02:27:22 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police.

02:27:26 City of Tampa police department has no objections to




02:27:27 this wet zone special use.

02:27:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

02:27:30 >> Joe Redner, 3613 west Walnut Street, and the

02:27:46 property that we are looking, I guess you know all this

02:27:49 already, it's on the thing here.

02:27:52 Ware looking for a 2(COP) license.

02:27:56 We came here before, and you put conditions on us.

02:28:01 As far as I know we. Had a complaint.

02:28:04 We have been operating for a year.

02:28:26 I also want to mention my son is the owner of the

02:28:37 brewery.

02:28:37 I'm just the owner of the property.

02:28:39 That's why I'm here.

02:28:40 I also want to mention my son is an alumnae of the

02:28:43 university of Tampa.

02:28:47 We are so darn proud of my son and what he has done

02:28:59 with this brewery.

02:29:00 It's unbelievable.

02:29:02 We have won a gold medal at the all American beer fest.

02:29:09 And that was our first time being up there.

02:29:14 And you will see back in the back, we have newspaper

02:29:21 articles from the beer industry in here about the beer,




02:29:24 which are very glowing.

02:29:25 In fact one of them says I do want to tell you that we

02:29:33 are not going to have anybody there that are going to

02:29:39 urinate in the yards or anything like that.

02:29:40 We charge $20 a bottle for our beer.

02:29:43 It's not cheap beer.

02:29:44 It's craft beer.

02:29:49 We have a beer that's number 7 in the country on

02:29:54 ratebeer.com.

02:29:55 If you look over at another page you will see the

02:29:59 yellow marked best beers in the south, every one of our

02:30:03 beers is the top beers in the country, in the south.

02:30:06 The American south.

02:30:16 We have had five events in the conditions in which we

02:30:21 have had events.

02:30:22 We have never had a complaint from our events.

02:30:24 We have a couple hundred people, at least 200 people

02:30:27 show up for these events where we sell special editions

02:30:33 of our beer.

02:30:34 And it's just been doing very well.

02:30:37 We ship to different places in the country.

02:30:40 We are already in New York.




02:30:43 And they went through some hoops to get our beer in New

02:30:47 York because they really wanted it pretty bad.

02:30:49 The distributor up there.

02:30:54 I've always tried to get along with my neighbors.

02:30:56 I came here, I told you before that we weren't going to

02:30:58 have a problem with our neighbors.

02:31:00 I November they may not like it there, but talking

02:31:02 about actual physical problems.

02:31:06 We have never had a complaint.

02:31:08 And most of the questions -- I'll answer questions.

02:31:15 >> Council?

02:31:17 Anyone from the public wish to address council on this

02:31:20 matter?

02:31:20 Anyone from the public?

02:31:21 >> My name is Harvey Nichols.

02:31:31 I have been living for about 55 years or more, and we

02:31:36 have a nice community there.

02:31:40 And I moved from an area that had the beer gardens, and

02:31:45 I moved over there so it was nice and clean.

02:31:48 And that's what we want for our neighborhood, to be --

02:31:52 remain the same.

02:31:53 I know Mr. Redner has different businesses in this




02:32:00 city.

02:32:01 I have been reading about it for many years.

02:32:02 But that's not my side.

02:32:06 I believe a person is supposed to go to work and

02:32:08 eastern a good living.

02:32:09 And the community want to be like everybody else.

02:32:12 They don't want no beer garden, anything sell of

02:32:17 alcoholic beverage.

02:32:18 We are 100 percent against it.

02:32:19 And I just want to speak my opinion, that I have some

02:32:23 of my neighbors here with me, that we are not for

02:32:28 alcoholic beverage in our neighborhood.

02:32:30 And I don't know anybody that do.

02:32:34 Because when you work you don't want peoples coming

02:32:37 around with these beer garden things.

02:32:41 And I see where it says special.

02:32:49 I don't know what's going to be coming out of this but

02:32:51 I don't want it in our neighborhood if a person can

02:32:54 come down there with a nice business it would be nice.

02:32:56 But it's right across the street from where I look at

02:33:01 it every day.

02:33:02 And I didn't buy my properties to go look at a beer




02:33:07 garden or somebody selling any kind of alcoholic

02:33:10 beverage.

02:33:11 And I thank you all for listening to me.

02:33:13 And I hope you all consider this.

02:33:15 But we are not for any kind of alcohol in our

02:33:20 neighborhood.

02:33:20 >> Is it Nichols?

02:33:31 >> Harvey Nichols.

02:33:32 >> My question is this.

02:33:33 A year ago we heard this petition.

02:33:35 And we labored over it long and hard.

02:33:38 I don't know if you were here.

02:33:39 Some of your neighbors.

02:33:40 >>> I was here.

02:33:41 >> I remember you and some of your neighbors were here.

02:33:43 And that's one of the reasons that we labored over it.

02:33:46 And we did two things a year ago.

02:33:48 We put a one-year conditional to see how it would go.

02:33:52 And then the other thing we did was we constrained them

02:33:54 with some hours of operation, so it wouldn't be

02:33:58 intrusive in terms of traffic and parking and some of

02:34:02 the things that you all were bringing up at the time.




02:34:04 So my question is, over the last year, Mr. Redner has

02:34:09 indicated his testimony is that there haven't been any

02:34:13 problems for the events that they have had, I guess on

02:34:17 a very limited basis.

02:34:19 Have you experienced any problems over the last year?

02:34:24 >> Well, see, I'm a person that goes in and out.

02:34:28 I see the business there.

02:34:30 But I goes in and out my own.

02:34:33 You?

02:34:33 But I don't see peoples hanging around.

02:34:37 But I'm a person to go in and out.

02:34:39 But I own two pieces of property in that neighborhood.

02:34:44 And when people go to bringing in things like this,

02:34:49 what's coming after this?

02:34:50 I see where it said, you know -- well, what he got in

02:34:57 mind after he did this, he will come in with a lot of

02:34:59 other things.

02:35:02 Now Dale Mabry is set for that.

02:35:03 But we don't want it in our neighborhood.

02:35:06 >> You are definitely going to get that same question

02:35:08 from me in a few minutes.

02:35:10 Because when we zone something, it's forever.




02:35:13 And your question is very valid.

02:35:15 But I just wanted to know how the last year went.

02:35:18 >> I haven't seen any activities around much because

02:35:24 come in and park, all these vehicles in there, and they

02:35:27 go someplace.

02:35:29 But as far as me, I don't see anything because I don't

02:35:33 stand a around.

02:35:34 I go in and out all the time.

02:35:37 >> Next speaker.

02:35:39 >> Thank you.

02:35:46 I have been sworn in.

02:35:47 My name is Rufus Lewis.

02:35:50 I live in Carver City.

02:35:52 I'm on the board of the Carver City Lincoln Gardens

02:35:56 civic association.

02:35:56 And we don't have two or three hundred people in here

02:35:59 right now, but I'm speaking for the association, and

02:36:04 the majority of the association are in disagreement

02:36:09 with the wet zoning of the petition.

02:36:12 And that's all I can add.

02:36:15 But being on the board, we do have meetings, and, no,

02:36:19 we haven't received any complaints of any sort coming




02:36:22 from 3924.

02:36:25 But at the same time, since our neighborhood is such an

02:36:29 old neighborhood, and a lot of older people that lives

02:36:32 out there, I was looking at the diagram here on the

02:36:35 chart there, and Lincoln Gardens is just north of the

02:36:40 building which in my estimation got to be 500 yards,

02:36:48 and then you have a parking area, and then on the south

02:36:51 side you have Laurel street, and those are residents.

02:36:53 And these are the people that are quite concerned.

02:36:56 And there are impacts of traffic that comes in and out.

02:37:00 But the traffic that has been coming in and out, we

02:37:04 haven't received any serious complaints like that about

02:37:09 the traffic.

02:37:10 And Mr. Redner, as far as I know, he's been fair about

02:37:14 what he's doing, and we have no problem with it.

02:37:19 But just the consensus that the association is no for

02:37:24 the liquor sale.

02:37:25 >> Thank you very much.

02:37:27 Next speaker.

02:37:27 >> Good afternoon.

02:37:31 My name is Debra Thrower, and I have been sworn in.

02:37:34 I'm a resident of 3905 West Spruce Street, and it's




02:37:38 just a little ways from Mr. Redner's establishment.

02:37:42 And while he has gotten good views about his beer and

02:37:48 all that stuff, I think that's wonderful.

02:37:50 But in light of the fact that traffic has increased in

02:37:53 that area, and then the person made known that there's

02:37:58 66 parking spaces.

02:37:59 You couple that with alcohol and increased traffic, as

02:38:04 well as Tampa being I think number two for pedestrian

02:38:08 incidents, I think that all those things combined is a

02:38:13 combination for disaster.

02:38:16 Simply put.

02:38:18 Safety is the number one issue.

02:38:20 Although there hasn't been any concerns in the past

02:38:23 year, I think that there are factors that exist that

02:38:29 pose the probability of things happening.

02:38:31 It's just yet to be seen.

02:38:33 Thank you.

02:38:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

02:38:35 >> Good afternoon.

02:38:39 I have been sworn in.

02:38:40 I'm Jay Martin, vice-president of operations for JJ

02:38:44 Taylor distributing who is the distributor of Mr.




02:38:46 Redner's beers, in the 17 county area, specifically

02:38:50 here in Tampa also.

02:38:52 A little bit about craft beer.

02:38:53 Nationally, craft beer has about a five volume share of

02:38:58 all beers sold.

02:38:59 In Florida it's two share or less.

02:39:02 So Florida ranks behind or indexes behind in these

02:39:07 higher end craft beers that nationally are growing over

02:39:11 the last 35 years, 7%.

02:39:17 One of the reasons I think that is is the lack or

02:39:21 presence of great craft breweries like this in the

02:39:24 State of Florida.

02:39:25 I think we are real fortunate to have one here in Tampa

02:39:29 those getting national recognition.

02:39:30 The other areas of the country where craft beer is a

02:39:34 larger percent, there is a multitude of craft breweries

02:39:40 in that area.

02:39:41 Craft beer is sold on passion and having a brewery.

02:39:45 You are not going to see billboards from these brands.

02:39:48 So it's important for them to be able to have tastings.

02:39:52 The beer that they sell off their establishment would

02:39:57 actually take sales from what we do.




02:39:58 But it's so important for them to be able to, you know,

02:40:02 have people taste this beer and experience.

02:40:05 You know, it's more an experience.

02:40:06 It's not the old days of belly up to the bar.

02:40:10 These are people that they are willing to pay $20 for a

02:40:15 bottle of beer.

02:40:17 So we are for what the brewery is doing and think that

02:40:21 for their long-term, the investment that they are

02:40:23 making, they need to be able to market, and the most

02:40:27 effective way for small brewers to market is through

02:40:32 tastings.

02:40:33 Thank you.

02:40:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?

02:40:36 Next speaker.

02:40:37 Anyone else?

02:40:38 >> My name is Joseph Redner and I live at 13110 North

02:40:45 Boulevard, and I have been sworn in.

02:40:48 I'm owner of the brewery, one of the brewers.

02:40:51 We started with just myself and one other guy.

02:40:53 We are up to four employees now and we are looking to

02:40:57 hire another person, and if we could have the wet

02:40:59 zoning obviously we would be hiring additional people




02:41:02 to run that.

02:41:03 As you can see, in the booklet that we gave you, we

02:41:07 have garnered a lot of national awards.

02:41:10 That gold medal win that we got, there were 3,309 beers

02:41:15 in that competition, 78 won a gold medal.

02:41:18 So about 2%.

02:41:19 It's a very prestigious, called the Super Bowl of beer

02:41:22 fests.

02:41:23 And no brewery from Florida had won a gold medal in

02:41:27 over a decade.

02:41:28 We are the first one to do that.

02:41:30 So we are trying to bring something that's quality,

02:41:33 about exceptionalism.

02:41:34 We were very, very dedicated to making a quality

02:41:37 product, and anything we do, that's going to show.

02:41:40 So as far as the neighborhood, my mother lives in

02:41:42 Lincoln Gardens.

02:41:45 My mother lives not a two-minute walk from the brewery.

02:41:49 Inc. walk to her house in two minutes.

02:41:50 So I'm not going to do something in the neighborhood

02:41:52 that my mother is going to come over and say, son, what

02:41:55 are you doing?




02:41:56 So I understand their concern.

02:41:57 And like we did last time, I'm willing to do whatever

02:42:01 it is to relieve their fears about what impact we may

02:42:07 have.

02:42:09 Without you having been to a craft brewery and seeing

02:42:12 what it's about, you may not understand, this is

02:42:15 definitely more than aficionado crowd.

02:42:17 It's not the kind of crowd that's going to be

02:42:19 boisterous, wild, not the kind of crowd to go out and

02:42:23 pee in the parking lot or stumble into the street or

02:42:26 drive drunk.

02:42:27 It's not that kind of crowd.

02:42:28 We mentioned $20.

02:42:30 Actually the highest beer retails for $28, what you can

02:42:33 buy at whole foods and total wine and more right in

02:42:36 front of us.

02:42:38 The kind of crowd you have is a higher income crowd, a

02:42:41 professional crowd.

02:42:42 They are not the kind of people that are genuinely

02:42:45 going to be creating the kind of problems that I think

02:42:47 will be a real concern for people of Lincoln Gardens

02:42:49 and Carver City.




02:42:50 >> If you think you have a problem with your mother,

02:42:56 adopt be late with your rent.

02:42:58 [ Laughter ]

02:43:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public?

02:43:08 Anyone else from the public?

02:43:09 Okay.

02:43:09 >> I would like to show you one thing.

02:43:14 We are not going to sell other breweries' beers.

02:43:19 We are not going to be a beer joint.

02:43:21 We are only going to sell our own beers and have

02:43:24 tastings there.

02:43:25 >>> Occasionally you do a lot of cross promotions.

02:43:30 So I would like to be able to sell Dunedin brewery's

02:43:33 beer.

02:43:34 I would like to be able to sell other stuff that's made

02:43:36 in Florida because I would like to showcase it.

02:43:38 So I wouldn't want to say well, we are never going to

02:43:40 sell any other brewery's beer but to showcase our beer

02:43:44 first, but also the Florida craft beer movement second.

02:43:48 And you go to a state like Wisconsin, which is

02:43:50 well-known for its craft breweries, there's 39

02:43:53 breweries, population 6 million.




02:43:58 Florida has 36.

02:44:00 So I would never say, Dunedin beer, I would low to

02:44:03 showcase your beer so if someone may go out to the

02:44:05 beach they are more aware of you and there will also be

02:44:08 that ripple that will help promote craft beer.

02:44:12 I would never say we are not going to sell other

02:44:14 peoples beers exclusively.

02:44:15 >> I'm glad you cleared that up.

02:44:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How many more minutes have they got

02:44:23 left?

02:44:24 >>THE CLERK: A minute and a half.

02:44:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You have a minute and a half left.

02:44:29 >>> No, just to answer questions.

02:44:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I want you to finish your

02:44:33 statement, your rebuttal.

02:44:35 You have one more minute.

02:44:38 Councilman Dingfelder.

02:44:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't know who to ask this,

02:44:45 junior or senior.

02:44:46 I'll let you guys decide.

02:44:47 The concern I have, I think I said it a year ago, is

02:44:51 that regardless of what -- and we say this all the




02:44:56 time -- the zoning runs with the land, as you know,

02:44:59 Joe, and I could ask you today, what's going to be on

02:45:04 this establishment 50 years from now, all right?

02:45:08 And I'm pretty sure that -- I don't know if Joe Jr. is

02:45:13 going to be right.

02:45:14 You are because you look healthier than I do.

02:45:17 But you understand my point.

02:45:20 And we have to hear the neighbors' concerns.

02:45:22 But the last time it had to do with hours of operation.

02:45:28 I would like to have us allow you to continue this with

02:45:32 the permanent 2(COP) but with some serious limitations

02:45:37 on hours of operation, similar to what we adopted last

02:45:40 time.

02:45:42 I don't know if your hours have changed, if the

02:45:45 suggestions have changed.

02:45:46 We can't impose that on you.

02:45:48 We can only ask you if you would agree to that as a

02:45:50 condition, and then if you agree to it, then we could

02:45:53 consider it.

02:45:54 But that's where this councilman is coming from, as a

02:45:59 form of compromise.

02:45:59 >> Another suggestion for compromise was give us the




02:46:05 2(COP) and put us on a year condition like you did the

02:46:09 last time, and if we cause problems, then we have to

02:46:12 come back again.

02:46:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.

02:46:14 And you haven't obviously so that's good.

02:46:16 So we have achieved a year and that's a good thing.

02:46:18 So now we are at this point.

02:46:19 But my point is, is this longevity issue.

02:46:23 So let's say the craft beer industry goes bankrupt and

02:46:28 belly up, ten years from now and you need to sell the

02:46:32 building and he needs to sell the business, but that

02:46:34 2(COP) is still there, okay, which could then become a

02:46:38 little neighborhood bar serving beer and wine, and

02:46:42 you're asking for unlimited hours, which in this

02:46:45 community would be 3 a.m., and that's not good for

02:46:48 these folks at all.

02:46:49 And it's probably not good for Joe's mother either.

02:46:53 So that's my point.

02:46:56 Compromise on hours of operation, I could probably

02:46:58 support it.

02:46:59 That's up to each.

02:47:00 >>> 2(COP)s until 3:00 in the morning?




02:47:04 I'm sorry, I thought it was still 1:00.

02:47:08 >> I would have no problem with coming back and same

02:47:14 these are the hours we are willing to operate.

02:47:15 But the concern we are having now is we are basically

02:47:18 open nine to five and that's very difficult for a lot

02:47:20 of people because they either have to take their lunch

02:47:22 off, and we can't sell on premises but a very small

02:47:26 portion of the time, and it prevents you from doing a

02:47:28 lot of the things you would do, and also just the money

02:47:34 we make on beer, we keep, we don't have to wait the 30

02:47:37 day so that's very important to our growth.

02:47:38 It's going to allow us to buy additional stainless

02:47:41 tanks to put on the floor to make more beer.

02:47:44 >> The question is the hours, councilman.

02:47:46 What hours are we looking for?

02:47:48 We'll be here all day.

02:47:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I mean that's my question.

02:47:51 I would think -- I don't go to these types of tasting

02:47:54 parties but I would assume looking at the ones up and

02:47:57 down the street, they usually look like they close down

02:48:00 around 9:00 or 10:00 at night which I think is a

02:48:03 reasonable constraint, you know, something along those




02:48:07 lines, so we don't get into the fact that if it shut

02:48:11 down, then it's not really a bar, if it's going to shut

02:48:14 down at 9:00.

02:48:15 >> Can I -- what if we were to say Friday and Saturday

02:48:22 you till midnight.

02:48:23 We have no plans on being open Monday and Tuesday

02:48:25 because we are a production brewery, so as far as the

02:48:27 tasting room, while we could be open Monday and Tuesday

02:48:32 we aren't and it just a factor of if you get people in.

02:48:37 If we are able to do Friday, Saturday till midnight

02:48:39 that, would give us two days that we could really

02:48:42 operate more like a brew pub bar, where people come in,

02:48:47 enjoy themselves.

02:48:48 If we can expand our hours that we are selling on the

02:48:52 weekdays until, say, ten, and then be able to also sell

02:48:55 the beer to go until ten.

02:48:57 Right now we are not selling any beer on premises, for

02:49:00 on premises consumption, except we can do it four times

02:49:03 in a calendar month.

02:49:04 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a question.

02:49:14 It will still be a bar when they sell it.

02:49:17 What's going to happen if it's a bar?




02:49:20 So it's not making no difference the hours on Friday

02:49:23 and Saturday.

02:49:23 >> I have a suggestion.

02:49:26 Put the bar in conjunction with the brewery.

02:49:28 If the brewery goes, then the bar goes.

02:49:32 >> We need legal opinion on that.

02:49:34 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.

02:49:37 Certain certainly in the past limited to a particular

02:49:42 use.

02:49:42 I would just want to make sure from land development

02:49:45 and/or the zoning administrator if we can't figure it

02:49:49 out right now that we feel we can defend and everyone

02:49:52 knows what it is, and I'm not sure I can do that right

02:49:55 now.

02:49:55 If we have some time, I'm not sure if we can get hold

02:49:58 of the zoning administrator but that would be my only

02:50:00 issue with it, is enforceability and everyone being

02:50:04 clear what the term was.

02:50:05 But certainly you have limited the sell to particular

02:50:08 uses as a hotel or a restaurant.

02:50:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think that's unique and one that

02:50:17 would make sense, if the manufacturer goes, so goes the




02:50:21 other part of the operation, which is consumption.

02:50:26 So we'll wait and see what happens legally.

02:50:28 But I think that's something that's come up that is an

02:50:33 effort to mediate both sides, so that if they leave,

02:50:38 then you can't have a bar there, or it's 2(COP) wine

02:50:42 operation, if the manufacturing leaves, and it has to

02:50:47 be worded to the effect that whatever you are doing now

02:50:50 continues.

02:50:51 You can't say, well, I made one bottle of beer in two

02:50:54 months, therefore I stay open.

02:50:56 It has to be based on the productivity of what you have

02:50:58 now, and that you have to produce the same amount of

02:51:02 volume that you are, in case you were to close down so

02:51:05 the other would not kick in.

02:51:06 >>> I think could you also add that you have to be

02:51:09 federally state licensed as a brewery because licensing

02:51:12 is expensive and the process, so for someone to go

02:51:15 through all that to brew one bottle of beer you are

02:51:18 paying $3,000 a year just for the license.

02:51:21 >> We agree.

02:51:21 >> And you have to carry bonds,.

02:51:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Miller.




02:51:27 >>GWEN MILLER: My concern is this neighborhood came

02:51:30 down last year, same time, asking for your help.

02:51:33 You turned them down.

02:51:34 They are back here again this year asking for council

02:51:36 help.

02:51:37 We support other neighborhoods.

02:51:39 This neighborhood has been coming twice, not once.

02:51:41 And you still are not going to protect their

02:51:45 neighborhood.

02:51:45 They want to have safe neighborhood.

02:51:47 They want to be able to walk out of their house.

02:51:50 Like Mr. Nichols say he can look out every day and you

02:51:53 all still just ignore that neighborhood.

02:51:56 Like they are not even a neighborhood.

02:51:58 Just sitting back there doing nothing.

02:52:00 I think it's time to treat everybody the same way.

02:52:04 This is the second time they have been down here asking

02:52:06 for your help and you are still turning them down.

02:52:09 I can't get used to that.

02:52:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There's something that bothers me

02:52:16 the most, it's not the operation.

02:52:18 We as a city have let the neighborhood on the Home




02:52:23 Depot exit, they are still doing it.

02:52:25 I asked many times.

02:52:27 I guarantee you, they have one police officer there and

02:52:29 a motorcycle or whatever, they can give out 50 tickets

02:52:32 because they are jumping over the curb.

02:52:34 They told me they weren't putting in rubberized pallets

02:52:39 so they couldn't do it, and now what?

02:52:40 That was three months ago.

02:52:42 They are still doing it and the majority of the traffic

02:52:43 is coming into that neighborhood is coming from that

02:52:47 location where they make the left, and the island is

02:52:50 not big enough.

02:52:51 It's only about that high.

02:52:53 It used to be like that before it wore out.

02:52:55 And that's part of the neighborhood problem.

02:52:57 We haven't addressed it.

02:52:58 It has nothing to do with this.

02:52:59 But I'm saying let's talk about protection.

02:53:01 Let's protect them all.

02:53:02 Because that's wrong what's happening there.

02:53:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?

02:53:09 Motion to close?




02:53:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I don't know if we --

02:53:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The legal department.

02:53:16 >>REBECCA KERT: If you were interested in tying the

02:53:19 sale of alcoholic beverages to the brewery use it would

02:53:23 need to be continued for two weeks to see if we can

02:53:26 figure out if some state license is required, if Mr.

02:53:29 Redner would be ready to continue for two weeks.

02:53:33 So the legal department could work with him on that.

02:53:35 >> I think it's a good idea, as a matter of fact.

02:53:37 >> It would be nice to see that in an ordinance.

02:53:39 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Miranda, those things you

02:53:42 were talking about, is that something the city was

02:53:44 supposed to do?

02:53:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, sir.

02:53:47 We'll get into that later.

02:53:48 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: We need to get the city out

02:53:50 there, and I commend Mr. Redner's son for doing what he

02:53:54 does.

02:53:54 This is what our president wants to do, create jobs,

02:53:58 okay?

02:53:58 So we are trying to do that.

02:54:00 At least it's not a prison.




02:54:02 And put people from Gitmo there.

02:54:05 But I applaud you.

02:54:07 And maybe Mr. Dingfelder won't be here 50 years from

02:54:11 now.

02:54:11 >>GWEN MILLER: But people don't want that kind of jobs

02:54:17 in the neighborhoods.

02:54:18 They want jobs that are good but not that kind of job.

02:54:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move to hold this hearing for two

02:54:24 weeks so that we can come back with some type of

02:54:26 wording to find out it fits the description of how we

02:54:29 can be helpful in all cases.

02:54:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.

02:54:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You see those folks back there.

02:54:39 They have been diligent.

02:54:40 You need to meet with them.

02:54:42 Four, excuse me.

02:54:43 She was hiding.

02:54:45 You need to meet with them after we leave and see if

02:54:48 you can work out some -- maybe there's some

02:54:51 commonality.

02:54:53 >> We went to a meeting.

02:54:56 >> That's fine but they are still here so let's keep




02:54:59 talking.

02:54:59 >> There's a motion to continue for two weeks.

02:55:02 Is that right?

02:55:02 >>THE CLERK: December 3rd.

02:55:19 >> At 1:30 is the billboard ordinance.

02:55:22 If you want to set it for 10:00.

02:55:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have something coming back.

02:55:27 Is that the 17th?

02:55:28 >> Well, you have ten second readings.

02:55:31 You can take it up after that at 10:30 if you would

02:55:34 like to set it at the hearing.

02:55:36 Otherwise the only thing scheduled for the afternoon of

02:55:39 the 3rd is the workshop --

02:55:42 The only thing scheduled for the afternoon.

02:55:44 So you all want 9:30 on the 3rd?

02:55:48 10:00?

02:55:49 Okay.

02:55:50 Okay.

02:56:02 So the motion is continue till the 3rd at 10:00.

02:56:06 Moved and seconded.

02:56:07 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

02:56:10 Opposes?




02:56:11 Okay.

02:56:13 The last item is item 56.

02:56:15 >> Next to the last item.

02:56:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next to the last.

02:56:21 We have calendars.

02:56:22 Then we have to tape the holiday greetings.

02:56:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ho ho ho

02:56:28 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.

02:56:32 I have one item on the agenda, V 09-438 for property

02:56:37 located at 2223 Westshore Boulevard, university B, 203.

02:56:45 Community alternative for shopping center.

02:56:47 The proposed alcoholic beverage special use is for

02:56:51 alcoholic beverage sales large venue 4(COP-X) which

02:56:56 allows for the sale of beverages regardless of

02:56:57 alcoholic content for consumption on premises only and

02:57:01 in conjunction with a bar and lounge.

02:57:03 This site is located in the International Plaza.

02:57:06 The current use is an existing 4(COP-X) which was

02:57:10 approved in 2002.

02:57:13 It contains 6,920 square feet which includes an

02:57:17 interior patio area.

02:57:18 The request is to add an exterior patio, containing 557




02:57:23 square feet, for a total of 7,477 square feet.

02:57:30 89 parking spaces are required and 89 parking spaces

02:57:31 are provided on-site.

02:57:35 This is an aerial of the site.

02:57:40 International Plaza located here at Westshore Boulevard

02:57:43 to the west.

02:57:44 And this is Blue Martini located here inside of the

02:57:49 food court area of the

02:57:51 And pictures of the site.

02:57:57 This is the entrance to the site.

02:58:02 That's another view of the site.

02:58:04 This is the area where the addition will be located.

02:58:11 This is the view going into the food court.

02:58:14 The development review committee has reviewed the

02:58:16 petition and finds the request consistent with

02:58:18 applicable City of Tampa land development regulations.

02:58:21 That concludes staff's presentation.

02:58:23 I'm available if you have any questions.

02:58:24 >> Any questions for council?

02:58:28 Officer Miller?

02:58:29 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police department.

02:58:34 Police department has no objections.




02:58:36 To this special use.

02:58:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?

02:58:39 >> Good afternoon.

02:58:42 Ann Pollack of Mechanik Nuccio, 305 South Boulevard.

02:58:46 Really all we are doing is expanding the patio that's

02:58:48 there.

02:58:49 And it will kind of wind with it all up with itself the

02:58:54 other patios.

02:58:55 >> Anyone in opposition?

02:58:57 Speak now or forever hold your peace.

02:59:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.

02:59:02 >> Second.

02:59:04 >> All in favor signify by Aye.

02:59:08 Read the ordinance.

02:59:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance for first

02:59:11 reading, ordinance number 2002-128 approving a special

02:59:16 use permit for alcoholic beverage large venue making

02:59:20 sale alcoholic content beer wine liquor 4(COP-X) on

02:59:25 consumption on premises only at or from a certain plot,

02:59:29 lot, tract of land located at 2223 Westshore Boulevard

02:59:33 unit B-203, 204, Tampa, Florida, more particularly

02:59:41 described in section 3 hereof providing for repeal of




02:59:44 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective

02:59:46 date.

02:59:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.

02:59:51 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

02:59:53 Opposes?

02:59:53 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano being absent

02:59:56 at vote, and Saul-Sena being absent.

02:59:59 Second reading of the ordinance will be held December

03:00:02 3rd at 9:30 a.m.

03:00:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The last item I believe is our

03:00:09 calendar.

03:00:10 Mr. Shelby.

03:00:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That would be Ms. Foxx-Knowles.

03:00:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Fletcher, do you want to make a

03:00:19 statement?

03:00:21 The hearing is still set for the 2nd at 1:30 in the

03:00:24 afternoon?

03:00:25 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes.

03:00:27 This is where we are.

03:00:28 You all did set that hearing by statute, your duty is

03:00:32 to set forth with.

03:00:36 Apparently from the memo from Mrs. Crum the first




03:00:39 available date that all council members were available

03:00:41 was December 2nd.

03:00:45 I did receive a phone call from council for the PBA.

03:00:51 She apparently has a hearing in the morning.

03:00:53 She actually indicated she thought it was all day.

03:00:56 Our folks believe that it is a half-day hearing.

03:01:00 Arbitration.

03:01:05 From their perspective, from the administration's

03:01:07 perspective, we can move that, make that time available

03:01:10 for council if necessary, or finish that arbitration in

03:01:14 time to do the impasse in the afternoon.

03:01:16 Council for the PBA was not happy to be able to have to

03:01:19 do two in the same day, just to pass along what she had

03:01:22 told me.

03:01:23 But certainly it's council's right to set the hearing

03:01:25 as you believe appropriate, and the first time

03:01:28 available is that date on December 2nd.

03:01:31 >> We have already taken action on that.

03:01:36 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: That's right.

03:01:38 And you should expect to get comments on the procedure

03:01:40 that was previously adopted.

03:01:42 But as we indicated earlier, if you believe any of




03:01:45 their comments have merit, that change can be made at

03:01:49 the hearing.

03:01:50 >> Councilman Dingfelder.

03:01:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Two things.

03:01:55 One, I'm a little surprised that before they went to

03:01:58 the exercise of clearing our calendars, they didn't

03:02:01 call the union and clear their calendars.

03:02:04 Who was doing that?

03:02:06 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I can't speak to that.

03:02:08 >> It wasn't your office?

03:02:09 >> Not my office, no.

03:02:10 >> I don't think that was very polite behavior on their

03:02:15 part.

03:02:16 Number two as you said, that other arbitration is with

03:02:18 us?

03:02:19 >> With the city, yes.

03:02:21 >> So we can agree to move it?

03:02:25 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We certainly -- I'm not sure of

03:02:27 the nature of the arbitration.

03:02:29 All I know is it's with us based on representation by

03:02:32 council for the PBA.

03:02:33 >> I would hope that you or the administration would




03:02:36 make sure that happens.

03:02:37 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes, sir, I agree with that.

03:02:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It is my understanding that is with

03:02:43 the firefighters and they can move that.

03:02:46 I don't know.

03:02:47 But that's what I have been advised of.

03:02:51 So we hope that city administration will accommodate

03:02:53 that.

03:02:54 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I can tell you I'll do my best to

03:03:00 make sure that happens.

03:03:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I guess we take up the

03:03:09 calendar.

03:03:10 But we also have to take up item number 57, which

03:03:13 hadn't been resolved.

03:03:14 And I do have resolution on that.

03:03:16 If you want to take it now first or we'll come back to

03:03:18 that.

03:03:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 57, let's get that out of the

03:03:20 way.

03:03:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It has been confirmed by the clerk

03:03:23 this was originally set to be heard on the 17th.

03:03:27 Was -- September 17th.




03:03:29 The record has not been perfected.

03:03:31 And pursuant to city code, it's then deemed to be

03:03:37 denied.

03:03:39 And also in addition I see that the petitioner has not

03:03:41 made a personal appearance, and again that is another

03:03:43 basis for council to move for denial.

03:03:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I need a motion for system 57.

03:03:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I guess to remove from the agenda.

03:03:52 >>GWEN MILLER: To deny.

03:03:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: To deny the request by the

03:03:58 appellant because of the items that were just read out

03:04:02 of the code.

03:04:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Actually what it says, to give you

03:04:06 the exact language, is under misnotice, it says failure

03:04:10 to perfect notice required for the rescheduled hearing

03:04:13 shall result in the appeal hearing being denied.

03:04:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.

03:04:21 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

03:04:23 Opposes?

03:04:27 Great.

03:04:28 We take up item 50, our calendar.

03:04:30 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: City clerk.




03:04:35 I wanted to review the tentative 2010 City Council

03:04:40 calendar.

03:04:47 In 2010 beginning in January on the first and third

03:04:51 Thursdays council will have regular session.

03:04:55 On the second Thursday, council will have CRA meeting.

03:04:58 And an evening session.

03:05:01 Note that there are two evening sessions each month on

03:05:09 the second and fourth Thursday through June 2010.

03:05:11 On the fourth Thursday, we have the workshop sessions

03:05:17 and a of course the evening session.

03:05:20 Workshops have already been scheduled through March

03:05:24 2010.

03:05:25 The exceptions to the scheduled meeting times include

03:05:30 July, August, November, and December 2010.

03:05:34 In July, the exception will be due to council's

03:05:38 vacation, which will be the first two weeks in July.

03:05:42 No meeting on July 1st, and July 8th.

03:05:46 In August, the exception will be the Florida League of

03:05:49 Cities conference on August 19th, 2010.

03:05:54 There is no meeting scheduled for that date.

03:05:56 According to the calendar, the tentative calendar.

03:06:01 In November, there will only be two meetings, on the




03:06:05 first and third Thursday, and an evening session on the

03:06:09 third Thursday.

03:06:12 We have veterans day on November 11th, which is on

03:06:17 a Thursday, and of course we have Thanksgiving.

03:06:21 So no CRA meeting is scheduled for that month.

03:06:25 And no workshop is scheduled.

03:06:31 In December, due to the holiday and winter vacation,

03:06:35 workshop session has been moved to the second Thursday,

03:06:40 and an evening session scheduled for the third Thursday

03:06:44 on December 16th.

03:06:46 We have previewed the calendar with Land Development

03:06:48 Coordination and also wanted to know that the calendar

03:06:55 does not reflect dates for the 2011 budget workshop or

03:07:00 budget hearing.

03:07:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions by council?

03:07:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just an observation that your

03:07:12 tentative calendar up until this point allows for,

03:07:18 let's say in December, previously set based on your

03:07:21 existing calendar you have a split session where tough

03:07:23 CRA and the workshop.

03:07:25 You had indicated that the last meeting dissatisfaction

03:07:28 with that process.




03:07:29 And therefore to accommodate that, if you will notice,

03:07:32 you don't have from a certain point out on, when the

03:07:37 calendar takes effect, you will not have CRA and

03:07:39 workshop dates together.

03:07:41 Basically, there are months then that you don't have

03:07:44 workshops scheduled.

03:07:45 And in November, because November is such a truncated

03:07:49 month, in working with the CRA, staff and Mr. Huey,

03:07:54 there's also no CRA meeting in November.

03:07:57 So you have no workshop and no CRA in November.

03:07:59 But that addresses the issue of the fact, the problem

03:08:04 you would have when you have too much front loaded on

03:08:06 days where you have the CRA and the workshop together.

03:08:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions by council?

03:08:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You want a motion on the calendar?

03:08:19 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: It would be nice so we could

03:08:21 formalize it.

03:08:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.

03:08:23 >> Second.

03:08:24 >> It's moved and seconded.

03:08:26 All in favor?

03:08:27 Opposes?




03:08:28 >> Who was the second?

03:08:29 >> Councilman Miranda moved it.

03:08:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I seconded it.

03:08:33 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Thank you, council.

03:08:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

03:08:40 Is there anything else?

03:08:41 Receive and file?

03:08:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.

03:08:44 >> Second.

03:08:44 >> All in favor signify by saying Aye.

03:08:47 Opposes?

03:08:47 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Can I bring something up,

03:08:52 Mr. Chairman?

03:08:55 I would like to have whoever is in charge of our

03:08:58 streetlights to do a review of County Line Road

03:09:04 adjacent to Grand Hamptons.

03:09:07 It's very dangerous out there.

03:09:09 I know there's a mix of Pasco County on one side, and

03:09:14 Hillsborough County, and the City of Tampa.

03:09:16 So it's very confusing.

03:09:19 Every time there's an accident there, I'll see state

03:09:22 troopers there, or I'll see the county there,




03:09:24 occasionally I'll see the Tampa Police Department.

03:09:27 But we need some sort of streetlights on that street.

03:09:30 Last year there were four deaths there.

03:09:34 A kid got killed jogging in the morning.

03:09:37 A gentleman got killed on his bicycle.

03:09:39 Plus two other automobile accidents.

03:09:45 And there are telephone calls there to make it easier

03:09:51 to implement.

03:09:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

03:09:53 It's been moved and seconded.

03:09:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Was that a request for some sort of

03:09:58 action to come back?

03:10:01 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Some sort of report to come back.

03:10:03 Let's give them 60 days to come back and see who is

03:10:09 going to be paying for it.

03:10:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you want that as a written report

03:10:13 or appearance?

03:10:16 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Written report.

03:10:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.

03:10:20 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

03:10:22 Opposes?

03:10:23 Okay.




03:10:24 Any other item need to come?

03:10:26 Yes, sir.

03:10:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would just like to reiterate what

03:10:29 I said earlier, that we asked the police chief to have

03:10:31 traffic, those individuals in the traffic division of

03:10:36 the fine police force that we have to look at that

03:10:38 location on Spruce, just east of Dale Mabry, about 80,

03:10:45 90 feet, where that little island.

03:10:49 I would say 25% of the cars go out, jump the island,

03:10:52 and we agreed when we did that years ago that rezoning

03:10:57 at that time would not happen to that neighborhood, and

03:10:59 that is exactly what's happening.

03:11:00 And --

03:11:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.

03:11:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There's nothing going on there to

03:11:05 prevent that from happening.

03:11:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

03:11:08 All in favor?

03:11:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Any action by council?

03:11:11 Do you want a report?

03:11:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: A report in 60 days.

03:11:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.




03:11:15 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

03:11:17 Opposes?

03:11:19 Written report back to council in 60 days on that

03:11:23 Spruce Street area there.

03:11:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Home Depot exit.

03:11:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other items to come before

03:11:30 council?

03:11:30 Okay.

03:11:31 Anyone from the public?

03:11:33 Anyone from the public wish to address council may come

03:11:35 forward at this time.

03:11:41 (City council adjourns)

03:11:49



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