Tampa City Council
Thursday, November 19, 2009
9:00 a.m. session
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0 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
09:02:38 At this time the chair will yield to the honorable Mary
09:02:41 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:02:44 It's my honor to introduce Reverend Phyllis Hunt, the
09:02:47 senior pastor of the Metropolitan Community Church of
09:02:50 Tampa. She will be giving our invocation this morning.
09:02:54 Please stand for that and remain standing for the
09:02:56 pledge of allegiance.
09:02:57 >>> Spirit of the living God, we give you thanks and
09:03:03 praise for the serious ways in which you touch and
09:03:07 bless our lives.
09:03:08 We ask this morning that you be in this place, in our
09:03:15 words, in the decisions that this council will make
09:03:18 that will impact our city and the health and well-being
09:03:23 of not only those who will be touched by these
09:03:26 decisions today, but the generations yet to come.
09:03:30 We thank you that we have the opportunity to live in
09:03:33 such a free nation.
09:03:36 We pray, O God, for those who offer themselves in
09:03:42 service to make our nation free.
09:03:47 Bless us as each of us continues to offer the very best
09:03:50 of who we are, to make a difference in the world we
09:03:54 touch, in the city we live in, and the neighborhoods
09:03:58 where we can make a difference.
09:04:02 May your peace, your guidance, your presence, be among
09:04:08 us today and always.
09:04:10 In all that is sacred and holy, we offer this and so
09:04:14 much more.
09:04:17 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:04:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll have roll call.
09:04:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:04:45 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:04:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:04:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:04:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:04:50 First on our agenda we will have a review of the agenda
09:04:53 and deal with the addendum.
09:04:55 >> Yes, thank you.
09:04:57 Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of City Council.
09:04:59 Before you have the addendum today's agenda.
09:05:02 We have several new business items that will be taken
09:05:05 up at the end of the meeting.
09:05:06 I ask you to take a look at those.
09:05:08 With regard to continuance or removal of items, council
09:05:12 member Saul-Sena is absent today, and the chair will
09:05:17 reference that.
09:05:18 >> Yes, I don't have a copy of that letter.
09:05:22 I understand the clerk did receive a copy.
09:05:24 Is that right?
09:05:25 I don't have one here but I do know that she is, I
09:05:28 think, out of the country.
09:05:30 Thank you.
09:05:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, there is a request for her
09:05:37 item that she placed on the agenda for today's
09:05:39 discussion, item 46.
09:05:40 There's a request that that be continued to December
09:05:42 3rd, 2009 due to her absence.
09:05:45 Also, item 49 on your agenda, which is a public
09:05:50 hearing, a second reading, which is supposed to begin
09:05:56 after 9:30, there's a request that that item be removed
09:05:59 from the agenda as the petitioner has withdrawn that
09:06:02 That was placed on the agenda for a full council vote,
09:06:05 which was brought back for a third time and again is
09:06:12 asking to object asked to be removed.
09:06:13 Finally you have two appeal hearings this afternoon,
09:06:17 numbers 57 and 58.
09:06:19 Those cannot be heard, and those have not had their
09:06:25 records perfected by the appellant.
09:06:28 So that is the address of 302 east Jean Street, and
09:06:35 2410 east 9th Avenue.
09:06:37 Again for those people who might be planning on
09:06:40 attending, those will not be heard.
09:06:42 Council, I am not aware of any other changes to the
09:06:46 I would, however, like to point out, council, that on
09:06:52 display in the City Council chambers today, there is a
09:06:54 quilt patch that has been designed by a local Tampa
09:06:59 artist and stitched by a city employee from the solid
09:07:03 waste department, Delilah Libby, administrative chief
09:07:08 from the solid waste, stitched that patch.
09:07:11 The city is one with of several cities that
09:07:13 participated in the all American city award this past
09:07:16 June as a participant to the neighborhood and the City
09:07:19 of Tampa created this quilt patch depicting the
09:07:22 Gasparilla ship and the Tampa skyline.
09:07:25 And it is on display this week in City Council
09:07:30 The quilt is transferring traveling the country in
09:07:34 every town that sponsored the American city awards.
09:07:38 I am not aware of any other deletions, additions or
09:07:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other item that may be pulled from
09:07:44 the agenda, changes?
09:07:45 Okay, motion?
09:07:46 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
09:07:49 >> Second.
09:07:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Moved by councilman Miranda, seconded
09:07:53 by Councilwoman Miller.
09:07:55 All in favor say Aye.
09:07:57 So moved.
09:08:00 We have set aside our 30 minutes today for public
09:08:05 The 30 minutes for items is giving preference to those
09:08:09 things that are on the agenda, other than public
09:08:12 If there's an item on the agenda for public hearing,
09:08:15 you are not allowed to speak during the first 30
09:08:20 You speak during the public hearing of that item.
09:08:22 So the first 30 minutes are set aside for items on the
09:08:25 agenda but that are not public hearings.
09:08:27 Public hearing items, you will be allowed to speak
09:08:29 during the public hearing time.
09:08:32 Let me also say as we come today to address council, I
09:08:34 ask that first of all cell phones be silent or turned
09:08:38 Secondly, I ask that you conduct yourself in a manner
09:08:42 that's appropriate and that's becoming in these
09:08:48 Thank you for your cooperation and your participation.
09:08:50 If you want to address council at this time, you may
09:08:52 begin to line up and come to the podium, state your
09:08:55 name and address for the record.
09:08:57 You have three minutes.
09:09:01 Anyone wish to address council?
09:09:02 You may begin now lining up, moving forward.
09:09:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Come to the mike.
09:09:08 >> Glen Shul, west San Jose street in Tampa, Florida.
09:09:14 I appeared before you November 5th.
09:09:18 I teach tennis for the City of Tampa on the public
09:09:23 We have a pay-as-you-go system.
09:09:25 We turn over about $20,000-some dollars which we turn
09:09:31 over to the City of Tampa at no cost to them.
09:09:36 We can have forfeiture of funds.
09:09:39 No drop-ins.
09:09:40 We cannot accept money from the participants.
09:09:46 Due to various council members, including Mary Mulhern
09:09:48 and John Dingfelder, we worked with Karen Palus and
09:09:53 asked they be more flexible, no forfeiture of funds,
09:09:56 allow drop-ins, council acceptance of fees.
09:10:02 In a meeting yesterday that we had with Karen Palus'
09:10:07 public ordinants she's agreed to and been flexible to
09:10:11 agree to no forfeiture, to allow drop ins, to allow us
09:10:15 to spontaneously respond, and we can accept only checks
09:10:20 made out to the city of than the and install drop boxes
09:10:23 and put those checks in there.
09:10:25 So I want to especially thank John Dingfelder and Mary
09:10:28 Mulhern and any other whose interceded on our behalf.
09:10:32 It's a service to the city, basically free money to the
09:10:35 city and the city will accept all administrative work
09:10:38 that's involved in the new system.
09:10:39 I want to thank you very much.
09:10:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
09:10:44 >> George Davis, Jr., 16105 Canton court, Tampa.
09:10:54 I'm coming today before you because I reached out to
09:10:57 the Parks Department.
09:10:59 I like to use gas Lykes park during the Gasparilla day
09:11:05 January 30, 2010.
09:11:07 I have been told that because of resources, there are
09:11:10 not opportunity to use the park that day.
09:11:15 I appear before you to help me in resolving that.
09:11:21 I think that's an ideal day for a nonprofit like
09:11:24 I represent a fitness, which is a nonprofit, and I
09:11:30 think that it would not cause any more hardship than
09:11:36 the people that are already down in the downtown area.
09:11:40 It should not impede any of the resources that are
09:11:42 already allocated for that event.
09:11:49 So I don't know if I should move forward and do
09:11:54 something else, or set up an appointment to speak with
09:11:57 one of you.
09:11:58 I have reached out to Joseph Caetano's office, and that
09:12:03 was unsuccessful.
09:12:05 So I was hoping that I could have some kind of idea of
09:12:11 how to proceed from here.
09:12:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:12:22 >>MARY MULHERN: You can contact my office.
09:12:25 I need more details to know if we can help you out
09:12:28 with that.
09:12:29 But contact my office.
09:12:33 You can go to the receptionist here and ask if you can
09:12:36 speak with my aide.
09:12:40 Or you can call.
09:12:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Any other speakers?
09:12:48 No one else?
09:12:54 Is anyone here to ask for reconsideration on a
09:12:57 legislative matter?
09:12:57 Anyone wish to address council on a reconsideration of
09:13:00 a legislative matter?
09:13:16 Did anyone want to address council that's not on the
09:13:22 Anything that's not on the agenda?
09:13:24 Thank you.
09:13:25 Item number 1.
09:13:27 Ordinance being presented for first reading.
09:13:29 Councilman Dingfelder.
09:13:30 >> I move the following ordinance for first reading, an
09:13:43 ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida amending City
09:13:45 of Tampa code chapter 2 article 7, civil emergencies,
09:13:50 said amendment being necessary to provide for
09:13:52 additional authority to City Council in determining and
09:13:54 declaring a continuing state of local emergency for
09:13:57 more than 30 days, to revise the language of paragraph
09:14:00 2-402 (C) to correct a scrivener's error, providing an
09:14:06 effective date.
09:14:06 >> It's been moved and seconded by Councilwoman
09:14:10 Any questions?
09:14:11 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:14:14 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being
09:14:17 Second reading of the ordinance will be held December
09:14:21 3rd at 9:30 a.m.
09:14:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We will move to our committee reports
09:14:25 at this time.
09:14:25 The chair recognizes the honorable Gwen Miller, safety
09:14:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am going to apologize.
09:14:34 Excuse me one second.
09:14:35 I missed item 24 when we did the addendum.
09:14:40 I would just ask the committee chair and council
09:14:46 generally to accept that apology and pull that, ask
09:14:52 Bonnie to come over and speak to that during staff
09:14:54 >> That's 24.
09:14:57 >> $7 million.
09:14:59 >> Item 24.
09:15:01 We'll pull that item.
09:15:02 And Ms. Wise has been asked to come over and address
09:15:06 that issue under staff reports.
09:15:13 Thank you.
09:15:15 Councilwoman Miller.
09:15:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Move resolutions 2 through 6.
09:15:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:15:22 >> All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:15:26 Parks and recreation.
09:15:28 Councilwoman Mary Mulhern.
09:15:30 >>MARY MULHERN: I move item number 7 through 13.
09:15:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
09:15:38 >> All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:15:42 Public works, councilman Miranda.
09:15:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move items 14 through 19.
09:15:46 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
09:15:50 >> All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:15:54 Finance Committee.
09:15:55 Councilwoman Mary Mulhern.
09:15:56 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 20 through 27.
09:16:03 Removing item 24 for staff reports.
09:16:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:16:07 >> All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:16:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: On 20, I want to thank the good
09:16:20 people to are -- who are working for the city,
09:16:23 associated with the City of Tampa, amalgamated transit
09:16:27 union local for working very diligently and doing what
09:16:30 they believe is best for their organization and the
09:16:33 good people that work for the city under these times.
09:16:37 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll second that.
09:16:39 Thank you.
09:16:39 >> Thank you, councilman Miranda.
09:16:44 That's number 20.
09:16:48 We just approved and ratified that contract.
09:16:51 >>MARY MULHERN: I thought Mr. Territo could come up
09:17:00 and address so we don't have to have staff report.
09:17:04 >>SAL TERRITO: What we are doing on this issue is we
09:17:06 have a loan out there for 7.6 million that comes due
09:17:10 December 1st.
09:17:11 All we are doing is extending the deadline until June
09:17:14 There's no new money being authorized.
09:17:17 We are simply extending the deadline for when the money
09:17:19 has to be paid back.
09:17:24 You approved this awhile back.
09:17:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.
09:17:27 I'm familiar with the paper that we approved awhile
09:17:29 back but is there any financial in-kind, is there a
09:17:32 financial reason why we have chosen to do that?
09:17:35 >>SAL TERRITO: We were going to take out these
09:17:37 commercial paper loans with the bond issue, with the
09:17:41 bond market being what it is, it's not ready yet.
09:17:43 We think by June we will be able to handle this thing.
09:17:45 The financial impact will be additional interest paid
09:17:48 between December 1st and the June 1st deadline
09:17:51 at a very low interest rate and should be on the doc
09:17:54 agenda cover sheet on what the interest is and the
09:17:57 financial impact.
09:17:58 But there is an impact the next six months but we are
09:18:02 not actually issuing new money for 7.6 million.
09:18:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's already budgeted?
09:18:07 >>SAL TERRITO: Already budgeted.
09:18:09 It was due and because of the fluctuations in the
09:18:12 market the delay on going and taking the money out
09:18:14 with longer term debt.
09:18:17 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll move that item.
09:18:21 >> Second.
09:18:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Everyone moved and seconded.
09:18:23 All in favor?
09:18:26 Building and zoning.
09:18:27 Joseph Caetano.
09:18:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to move items 3828
09:18:36 to 34.
09:18:37 (Motion carried).
09:18:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move items 35 through 38.
09:18:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
09:18:45 >> All in favor?
09:18:49 Items set for public hearing.
09:18:50 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to set items 39 through
09:18:53 >> Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:18:56 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:18:59 Public hearing items.
09:19:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: May I suggest you take a look at the
09:19:16 three new items on your addendum.
09:19:20 The first item is a request to schedule recognition
09:19:26 built Ballast Point neighborhood association for a
09:19:28 large donation check.
09:19:30 They are going to be putting that on the consent docket
09:19:33 for the next regular meeting on December 3rd but
09:19:35 would like to come to council during ceremonial and
09:19:38 present that.
09:19:38 So if that could be added to ceremonial items.
09:19:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would ask this be placed -- it was
09:19:45 done during ceremonial time.
09:19:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.
09:19:50 >> Second.
09:19:51 (Motion carried).
09:19:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You severed a memorandum from
09:19:56 director of human resources for a public hearing on
09:19:59 December 2nd, 2009 at 1:30 in the afternoon to
09:20:01 consider the contract issues with the Tampa police
09:20:05 benevolent association, the impasse hearing.
09:20:08 So if that could be scheduled by motion and vote, it
09:20:10 will be a special call meeting.
09:20:12 It will be on Wednesday, December 2nd at 1:30, just
09:20:18 to discuss that issue.
09:20:20 And it will be a full noticed public hearing.
09:20:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.
09:20:25 >> Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
09:20:27 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:20:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Lastly -- this was not placed on the
09:20:37 agenda but I had sent a memo requesting that the -- if
09:20:40 you were going to set a hearing on the impasse you
09:20:42 consider establishing the procedures that we had
09:20:44 drafted and previously distributed to council.
09:20:49 That's up to council's discretion.
09:20:51 It's essentially the same procedure as used with the
09:20:54 firefighters last year with the additional deadlines
09:20:56 that we discussed.
09:20:56 >> Do we need to approve that?
09:21:00 Are we going to use that same format?
09:21:03 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: It should be a motion by council.
09:21:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What we are approving now is the
09:21:07 process for the hearing that we used last time with the
09:21:11 And you should all have a copy of that.
09:21:15 Distributed a copy of that a few weeks ago a, yes.
09:21:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: More specifically, it is not
09:21:20 But what Mr. Fletcher has provided to you, actually
09:21:24 what the guidelines will be in a memo form.
09:21:27 You previously received them.
09:21:28 If you want to hold this vote till you receive them
09:21:31 again, I have worked with Mr. Fletcher.
09:21:33 I'm satisfied that it more than meets the requirements
09:21:36 for council.
09:21:39 And if you would then -- and I don't know if the clerk
09:21:42 has a copy of that but I will make that part of the
09:21:44 record, and that would be your motion and vote that you
09:21:47 approve it, the procedure as submitted by the city
09:21:51 >> Well, we had a conference in my office about this a
09:21:54 couple weeks ago.
09:21:56 I asked him to distribute it to the rest of the council
09:22:00 It's my understanding that was done so they should have
09:22:01 that as part of their portfolio, or their records.
09:22:04 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I distributed it and met with many
09:22:09 of the council members after that.
09:22:13 And then when I learned it's possible that someone may
09:22:15 be requesting the hearing be seventh set I resubmitted
09:22:19 it earlier this week.
09:22:20 So you all should have that.
09:22:21 The one difference in the procedure from last year to
09:22:25 this year would be the request that the bargaining
09:22:30 agents for both sides submit any final proposals 48
09:22:33 hours prior to the hearing so that council has the
09:22:35 opportunity to review those.
09:22:37 That's the only significant difference between the
09:22:39 procedure from last year and the procedure for this
09:22:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I know it sounds trivial but how
09:22:46 long do we establish in the procedure?
09:22:49 A length of time?
09:22:50 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: For the hearing?
09:22:53 >> For both sides or whatever it is.
09:22:55 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: It would be 30 minutes for each
09:22:57 side plus potential opportunities for rebuttal or
09:23:00 response at the discretion of the chair.
09:23:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I may redirect the motion to
09:23:05 include exactly what Mr. Fletcher just said for the
09:23:12 date of December 2nd.
09:23:14 That memo will be included as part of the record.
09:23:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, December 2nd.
09:23:18 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:23:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Fletcher, I take it that the
09:23:25 union will receive a copy of that in advance so they
09:23:27 will be able to abide by that, the time deadline?
09:23:32 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: They should have received it some
09:23:34 time ago and to make sure that they do have it, I had
09:23:36 it faxed to them yesterday, I believe.
09:23:38 So there should be no miscommunication on that issue.
09:23:44 I am hopeful that all occurred but I am not sure if you
09:23:48 all would be considering this today so I hadn't done a
09:23:50 lot of pre-briefing on that issue.
09:23:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
09:23:57 Finally, council, last week at your workshop, due to
09:24:00 time constraints, you removed the item regarding
09:24:04 suggestions concerning hearing officers for significant
09:24:07 issues pertaining to the zoning administrator, vested
09:24:10 rights of time limits with the Nobel hearings,
09:24:12 pertaining to appeals from the board, as suggested by
09:24:15 council member Miranda.
09:24:18 And I'm asking council, because that has fallen off
09:24:21 your agenda, that it be put back on so that Ms. Cole
09:24:24 can actually present to council, and you can move this
09:24:26 process forward.
09:24:27 In looking at the agenda with the chair, if you can
09:24:30 look at your calendar for December, December 17th,
09:24:34 in the afternoon, you have to come back for only one
09:24:38 SU-2 alcoholic beverage hearing.
09:24:40 I'm suggesting, council, that you set aside 30 minutes
09:24:43 at that time to be able to take up that item, if you
09:24:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I appreciate
09:24:50 everything our attorney has said.
09:24:51 But the agenda is line item with the reports but the
09:24:56 greater importance is that City Council members, seven,
09:25:00 for whatever reason are all going to be here, or if
09:25:03 someone is going to be out, I don't know that.
09:25:05 I think there's a council member out today for various
09:25:09 reasons that are appropriate ones, but I would like to
09:25:12 see the council vote on a certain day so no one can say
09:25:15 I didn't know about it.
09:25:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't know whether everybody is
09:25:20 going to be here on the 3rd.
09:25:22 I can hold that item.
09:25:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, if you can speak with the
09:25:36 So then we will bring that back on the 3rd.
09:25:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If that's council's pleasure, yes.
09:25:40 >> In the meantime, review everybody's calendars.
09:25:45 Thank you very much.
09:25:46 Any other new business?
09:25:47 Councilman Dingfelder?
09:25:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, thank you.
09:25:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern?
09:25:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Oh, I did have one thing.
09:26:03 Excuse me.
09:26:05 Yesterday, it was brought to my attention that perhaps
09:26:08 the Tampa fire department was implementing some new
09:26:16 inspection processes and procedures as related to
09:26:20 And specifically the gentleman I was talking to who has
09:26:24 a small business was complaining and said, you know,
09:26:27 he's been in business in the same location for 20, 30
09:26:31 years, and now they have come in and said, you need to
09:26:34 upgrade your sprinkler system to a higher standard.
09:26:38 And this isn't even a business where the public comes
09:26:41 and goes.
09:26:42 It's sort of a very kind of office-typesetting.
09:26:46 So, anyway, I don't know that any of that's true or not
09:26:50 because, you know, you just hear things.
09:26:54 But I think it is important, because this is not the
09:26:57 time for us to be banging on small businesses.
09:27:00 Joseph reminds us regularly.
09:27:03 So I would like to just make a motion for Tampa Fire
09:27:07 Rescue to come in, in about three, four weeks, and give
09:27:11 us a little briefing, if anything has changed in regard
09:27:14 to that issue.
09:27:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded by
09:27:18 councilman Miranda.
09:27:19 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:27:22 You want that to be in December?
09:27:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have two meetings in December,
09:27:28 the 3rd and 17th and the 17th is the last
09:27:32 meeting before the holiday break.
09:27:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The second.
09:27:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And you want them to talk about the
09:27:41 application of upgraded standards to existing
09:27:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
09:27:47 Are they doing something new or different in regard to
09:27:53 their inspections and requirements in regard to
09:27:55 existing businesses?
09:27:56 And that's under staff reports.
09:27:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:28:02 I have one item of new business and I would like to
09:28:04 outline them since we have a full audience here today.
09:28:10 On Saturday, November 21st, the Tampa independent
09:28:13 business alliance, which I think we call it TBA, is
09:28:18 marking America unchained by asking the community to
09:28:22 unchain -- and this is on the same subject of local
09:28:25 businesses -- by doing all their shopping, dining out
09:28:28 and other business only with locally-owned
09:28:31 independents, which adds millions of dollars to the
09:28:33 local economy.
09:28:35 So this is once a year they try to highlight our local
09:28:38 businesses across the country.
09:28:41 And so if you could mark your calendar, if you are
09:28:43 shopping on Saturday, November 21st, which is
09:28:52 Thanksgiving, before the big shopping day, to try to
09:28:55 patronize our local businesses, because it really does
09:28:58 bring more money back into our economy.
09:29:02 That's all I had.
09:29:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It's about 9:30 so I am going to
09:29:08 yield to your prerogative, to a later time in the
09:29:14 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to make a motion to
09:29:16 present a commendation to the East Tampa community
09:29:21 We are going to be recognizing the second annual
09:29:23 holiday tree lighting celebration.
09:29:25 It's going to be held at the new police station on 22nd
09:29:28 street, and it's going to be held on Friday, December
09:29:32 So on December 3rd I am going to ask Denise Meteye
09:29:34 James to come down to accept the commendation.
09:29:38 And I will present it to her then.
09:29:40 >> Moved and seconded.
09:29:43 (Motion carried)
09:29:47 Anything else?
09:29:49 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I think I had the same call that
09:29:51 Mr. Dingfelder got in reference to the sprinkler
09:29:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:29:58 It's 9:30.
09:29:59 We'll take up the 9:30 public hearing. Motion to open?
09:30:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move items 42, I believe, and 43 at
09:30:06 this time.
09:30:06 >> Moved and seconded.
09:30:08 All in favor?
09:30:09 Item 42.
09:30:14 Item 42.
09:30:15 Anyone wishing to address council to item 42?
09:30:18 Does the attorney want to speak to that?
09:30:20 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Assistant City Attorney. This is
09:30:33 the second reading to section 23.5-5, any violations to
09:30:42 Tampa city code that had not been previously set forth.
09:30:45 This is pursuant to your request.
09:30:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is in the code enforcement issue?
09:31:00 >> Civil citation.
09:31:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:31:04 >> Second.
09:31:05 (Motion carried).
09:31:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That was my no vote on that one.
09:31:10 >> Min, too.
09:31:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm sorry, I thought you were
09:31:20 voting on the motion.
09:31:21 I'm sorry.
09:31:22 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented
09:31:24 for second reading and adoption, an ordinance of the
09:31:26 city of Tampa, Florida striking language recently added
09:31:28 to section 23.5-5 (A) that designated as a class 1
09:31:35 violation any violation of the Tampa city code not
09:31:37 already set forth in the schedule of fines and
09:31:40 penalties, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
09:31:43 conflict, providing for severability, providing an
09:31:47 effective date.
09:31:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I am supporting the
09:31:50 I believe this is the one that Ms. Miller asked for the
09:31:53 revision into the ordinance a couple of weeks back.
09:31:56 This would be a blank check for individuals in the city
09:32:01 to go out and anything that is not in the ordinance to
09:32:04 say, well, that's a violation, even though it's not
09:32:07 specifically addressed.
09:32:09 In this great country we live in, that's like telling,
09:32:13 not that the police department would do that, let me
09:32:15 clarify that, giving you a speeding ticket for being
09:32:18 parked at a meter that's not expired.
09:32:19 You can't do that.
09:32:21 To me it's unconstitutional a.
09:32:23 You have to have guidelines.
09:32:25 Certainly you have to have enforcement.
09:32:26 But that's the reason I'm supporting Ms. Mulhern's
09:32:30 presentation of this ordinance.
09:32:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question for Ernie.
09:32:43 Isn't there a catch-all, either under local or state
09:32:47 law that says any violation of city code is a potential
09:32:53 first or second degree misdemeanor?
09:33:02 While you are leaning forward there.
09:33:06 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Certain parts of our code are
09:33:08 treated as misdemeanors.
09:33:10 >> Councilman Dingfelder, to a certain degree that's
09:33:18 In fact, the infamous ordinance utilized that section
09:33:25 of the code as a way of taking enforcement on that.
09:33:28 So, yes, that that is correct.
09:33:30 But there's case law that limits that to more active,
09:33:35 what I would call active violations of the code as
09:33:37 opposed to a code violations.
09:33:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Have you found that the city has
09:33:42 been abusive of that sort of catch-all?
09:33:46 Or do we use it in a wise way?
09:33:50 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: No, sir, in my experience with the
09:33:52 city, first of all it's limited to the police
09:33:55 And I have not had experience with such abuse since I
09:34:00 have been here.
09:34:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess that's my point.
09:34:03 A lot of these types of laws, because there's so many
09:34:06 laws -- Marty, hold up our code book there.
09:34:10 It's sort of hard to lift with one hand.
09:34:13 But there's so many codes that sometimes you do need,
09:34:17 in my opinion, you do need a catch-all for these types
09:34:20 of things.
09:34:21 And in code enforcement, I think this was the city's
09:34:26 attempt and the city administration's attempt to create
09:34:29 this sort of catch-all for whatever type of code
09:34:32 violations we haven't specifically enunciated as being
09:34:37 falling under the civil citations that the city might
09:34:41 have that ability to do that.
09:34:43 Now, I don't see us being abusive of that.
09:34:46 But obviously that's just my opinion.
09:34:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I respectfully disagree with both
09:34:59 speakers that just spoke.
09:35:01 Code enforcement is doing a good job, they are trying
09:35:03 to do their job, they are trying to make the city a
09:35:05 better place to live.
09:35:06 However, when you go back, and sit here at this podium
09:35:11 months ago, it is a certain area or certain areas of
09:35:13 the city that receive 95 to 98% of all code enforcement
09:35:20 complaints or fines.
09:35:24 I really believe that this city although is trying to
09:35:27 do a great job has to change their mind-set and go from
09:35:32 code enforcement to code enhancement, because it is the
09:35:37 same people who cannot afford to keep their properties
09:35:39 up, it is the same ones that on one side of town get
09:35:44 cited for a 3 by 6 sign, while you come to certain
09:35:47 areas of the more area town, and you have 12 by 12
09:35:53 sign, and all of a sudden they don't see that big sign.
09:35:58 Well, I have files, anytime Chip or anybody else wants
09:36:01 to see these files, they are welcome.
09:36:03 I can show you signs that says no parking on city
09:36:06 right-of-way on a city sign, and right under it on the
09:36:09 same sign, parking for so-and-so only.
09:36:12 We are wrong.
09:36:13 We have got to help instead of ham hamper.
09:36:18 We can do this with a little money and I don't mean as
09:36:21 a grant.
09:36:21 I mean as a loan, so that if they don't have the money
09:36:24 to pay it back, when that house becomes available
09:36:27 through death or whatever, then the city can collect
09:36:29 their fund.
09:36:30 But in the meantime, we are chasing our own tail and
09:36:33 not making any progress to my estimation.
09:36:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Sorry to interrupt or add to it but
09:36:43 just for council's clarification section 1-6 of the
09:36:48 code, general penalties, states code violations, fine
09:36:53 and/or imprisonment, it is lawful for any person to
09:36:56 violator fail to comply with any provision of this
09:36:58 code, and when no specific penalty is provided
09:37:03 therefore the violation of any provision of this code
09:37:05 shall be punished by a fine not exceeding $500 'n
09:37:08 and/or imprisonment for not exceeding 60 days or term
09:37:12 of probation not to exceed six months as set forth,
09:37:15 et cetera, et cetera.
09:37:15 But as to application, Mr. Fletcher addressed that.
09:37:20 But within your code is that provision.
09:37:22 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Just to clarify that, that's a
09:37:29 second degree misdemeanor would. That apply to what we
09:37:32 traditionally think of code violations, because there
09:37:34 are other penalties allowed so those would be excluded
09:37:38 under that criminal penalty.
09:37:39 Just so we are clear.
09:37:41 Also, just to be clear, now that this issue has been
09:37:45 raised by council, our office is supportive of this
09:37:48 We haven't had any issue.
09:37:50 We simply add it so we could deal with these other
09:37:55 extraneous issues or when there's been a change in the
09:37:57 code, it would be easier to make sure it continued to
09:38:00 But we are very supportive of this now that we have
09:38:02 heard council's concerns about how it would be applied.
09:38:05 >>MARY MULHERN: I would just like to add that I think
09:38:10 Mr. Shelby's reading that shows that there is the
09:38:14 ability, even though it sounds like we are not using
09:38:16 that, is an argument not to make any kind of broad area
09:38:22 where people may be committing a misdemeanor that they
09:38:25 have no idea, and that isn't delineated in our code.
09:38:28 I think that's an argument for adopting this change so
09:38:31 that if you are committing a code violation, it should
09:38:35 be delineated and you should be able to know that, what
09:38:38 you are doing is a code violation.
09:38:40 So again I support it.
09:38:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:38:44 The reason I brought it back is because it will help
09:38:47 the people in certain areas.
09:38:50 Certain areas have a hard time paying those fines.
09:38:52 And if they cannot pay them, a penalty that is really
09:38:56 hard for them, and I am very happy that the city
09:39:00 attorney does agree with me on this item because it
09:39:03 will really help our city, and say nobody is being
09:39:07 treated mean, and I don't think the police officers
09:39:09 will do anything, but I would like to protect some
09:39:11 areas in our city so they will have it.
09:39:16 >>GWEN MILLER: There's a motion on the-
09:39:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion on the floor.
09:39:22 Moved and seconded.
09:39:23 Record your vote, please.
09:39:26 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder voting no
09:39:35 and Saul-Sena being absent.
09:39:36 >> Council, on item 43, that's going to take a little
09:39:42 time, but item 44 should only take a minute, if we can
09:39:45 dispose of that.
09:39:48 We will then take up item 43.
09:39:55 Moved and seconded.
09:39:57 Anyone that's going to be addressing council on this
09:39:59 item needs to be sworn in.
09:40:00 This is item 44 on the closing of is the alleyway.
09:40:08 Miranda seeing none I move to close.
09:40:10 >> Second.
09:40:11 (Motion carried).
09:40:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move an ordinance for second
09:40:15 reading and adoption, an ordinance vacating, closing,
09:40:18 discontinuing, and abandoning a certain right-of-way
09:40:23 alley lying south of east Idlewild Avenue north of east
09:40:26 Clifton east of north branch Avenue and west of north
09:40:29 Central Avenue in north Seminole Heights a subdivision
09:40:32 in the city of Tampa, Florida as more fully described
09:40:34 in section 2 herein subject to certain covenants,
09:40:38 conditions and restrictions as more particularly
09:40:40 described herein, providing an effective date.
09:40:42 >>GWEN MILLER: It's moved and seconded.
09:40:45 Record your vote, please.
09:40:46 Item 44.
09:40:47 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being
09:40:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: At this time we take up item 43 of
09:41:01 that has already been open for public hearing.
09:41:05 We will determine how much time we can allocate because
09:41:08 at 10:30 we have to stop to take up 10:30 time certain.
09:41:12 And also at 11:00.
09:41:14 So how many people, just raise your hand, are going to
09:41:17 be addressing council?
09:41:24 We will set the time for two minutes per person, which
09:41:27 gives you about two minutes and 40 seconds, almost
09:41:31 three minutes.
09:41:32 Gives you almost three minutes.
09:41:33 You get two and a half minutes.
09:41:37 To speak to council, address council on item 43.
09:41:40 As you come, if you will line up, pros and cons, one on
09:41:45 the left, one on the right, if you are for this
09:41:47 ordinance, line up to my left.
09:41:49 If you support and want council to support, line up to
09:41:51 my left.
09:41:52 If you are against the ordinance line up to my right.
09:42:01 >> Are you sure you said this right?
09:42:03 >> if you oppose this ordinance line up to my right.
09:42:06 If you support the ordinance line up to my left.
09:42:10 And we will alternate back and forth.
09:42:18 Council is still in session, please.
09:42:29 Please, hold your conversation down.
09:42:31 Council is still in session.
09:42:34 This is still a public legal hearing.
09:42:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, Mr. Fletcher is back
09:42:43 in the corner there.
09:42:49 Chip, I can't remember where I heard it in the last
09:42:51 week or two.
09:42:52 But I heard there was some clarification about state
09:42:55 law as related to some of the restroom questions that
09:43:00 were being tossed around.
09:43:04 And maybe we can clarify that before there's too much
09:43:08 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Mr. Chairman, if I may.
09:43:13 There are state laws on use of bathrooms but I would
09:43:17 direct you on that issue to another provision of the
09:43:20 human rights ordinance that we are not amending.
09:43:23 This does speak to bathrooms and related facilities.
09:43:26 And it applies to the entire article on the whole code
09:43:32 on public accommodations and says discrimination on the
09:43:35 basis of sex, in restrooms, shower rooms, health spas
09:43:40 or other similar facilities, which by their nature are
09:43:46 private, and also dormitories are exempt.
09:43:50 And sex in this case is defined to relate back directly
09:43:54 to reproductive organs.
09:43:56 So in our view, this change will have no impact on the
09:44:01 use of those particular facilities in public
09:44:06 accommodations or housing.
09:44:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
09:44:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We will start with the lady on my
09:44:21 >> Good morning.
09:44:24 I am 73 young great grandmother who came to Tampa 35
09:44:29 years ago.
09:44:31 I was always happy to be part of here, telling people
09:44:35 about how family-friendly we were, and we still are
09:44:42 right now.
09:44:42 But I have an eight-year-old granddaughter, and things
09:44:47 keep getting worse.
09:44:49 I'm no longer able to let her run a little free like
09:44:55 going into restrooms or going somewhere.
09:45:00 We'll have to be watching the children far more than
09:45:03 what we do now.
09:45:05 And believe me, I watch.
09:45:09 But we sometimes have the tail wagging the dog, because
09:45:14 I don't hear all the things that I think some of our
09:45:18 people over here are going to be saying.
09:45:24 I have been a probation officer.
09:45:26 I have been a chaplain in the jails for 14-plus years,
09:45:35 Worked for Tampa Police Department.
09:45:37 I never experienced or held anything like what has
09:45:47 And I would like to see -- they announced on the news
09:45:50 this morning how our economy is getting so bad, and
09:45:56 Florida, and we are getting tourists, snowbirds,
09:46:01 Christmas, Thanksgiving.
09:46:05 And this can affect our economy, too.
09:46:09 If we can't a sure that families can come down, and
09:46:15 there won't be any problems, anything affecting their
09:46:25 Like I said, my great grandkids.
09:46:28 I'm working in the ministry to the homeless.
09:46:36 And we treat everyone like your sign says, Tampa
09:46:42 supports all citizens.
09:46:43 And I think Tampa would be supporting all citizens even
09:46:50 if this did pass.
09:46:52 And it has to be done individually.
09:46:54 (Bell sounds)
09:46:55 We do not have anything --
09:46:57 Thank you, ma'am.
09:46:58 >>> That says --
09:47:01 Could you state your name, please?
09:47:03 >> I'm sorry.
09:47:04 Roberta Kittrell, and this is the first time I have
09:47:10 done this, 73 years.
09:47:11 >> Yes, ma'am.
09:47:12 Next speaker, please.
09:47:13 Name and address.
09:47:17 [ Applause ]
09:47:18 Please, there will be no applauding.
09:47:21 Thank you.
09:47:21 >> My name is Philip Dinkins, 2621 south Brian circle.
09:47:25 I'm the chairman of the City of Tampa human rights
09:47:29 It's amazing to look back and see how far we have come
09:47:32 as a city and as a country to accept diversity and
09:47:35 offer basic civil rights to our citizens and not just
09:47:39 those that look after believing exactly as we do.
09:47:42 It's hard to believe that prior to 1920 women would not
09:47:45 even vote let alone hold elected office or compete for
09:47:48 the same jobs as men.
09:47:50 Had we been in this room back in 1920 we would have
09:47:53 been talking about sexual equality on gender.
09:47:58 50 years ago the discussion would have been about race.
09:48:01 Ten years ago it would have been about sexual
09:48:05 Today we are asking that gender identity and expression
09:48:08 be added to the City of Tampa human rights ordinance to
09:48:11 ensure that all our citizens have equal protections.
09:48:15 Change is not always easy.
09:48:17 And change can bring controversy and fear.
09:48:20 But the bottom line is discrimination is wrong, and
09:48:24 history has proven that expanding our civil rights for
09:48:27 our citizens has been the right thing to do.
09:48:29 We are not Trail Blazers in this regard.
09:48:33 Already 13 states, Washington, D.C., 17 municipalities
09:48:36 in Florida, over 90 colleges and universities, 108
09:48:42 cities across the country, and over 60% of the largest
09:48:45 U.S. companies have already added gender identity and
09:48:48 expression to the human rights ordinances.
09:48:51 They did it because it was right and it was the fair
09:48:54 thing to do.
09:48:56 A great thing happened in Salt Lake City last week.
09:48:58 Perhaps you saw it in the paper.
09:49:00 Salt Lake City add ad gender identity and expression to
09:49:03 their human rights ordinance, and they did it with the
09:49:06 support of the Mormon church.
09:49:08 I would like to quote the director of public affairs
09:49:10 for the Mormon church who was quoted in the "St. Pete
09:49:13 Times" last Thursday.
09:49:14 He said: Supporting basic civil values does not
09:49:18 compromise the church's religious beliefs.
09:49:22 As Chairman Scott said during the last council meeting,
09:49:25 this issue is about discrimination.
09:49:28 And he's right.
09:49:29 It's clear and simple.
09:49:31 If there is anyone in our city who could lose their job
09:49:34 or be refused a home or public accommodations due to
09:49:37 prejudice and discrimination, then this is not right.
09:49:42 And there is a group of our citizens that fall into
09:49:44 that gap.
09:49:45 And your actions today will show that Tampa is an all
09:49:49 inclusive city that respect it is dignity all humans
09:49:53 I encourage you to vote yes on the amendment.
09:49:55 Thank you.
09:49:56 (Bell sounds).
09:49:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
09:49:58 >> David Caton, I'm the executive director of Florida
09:50:02 Family Association.
09:50:03 I begin with the issue of the restrooms and the section
09:50:08 that is cited as originally being enacted some 20 years
09:50:13 ago, only applies to the category of sex.
09:50:16 And if this language is to be written for the fullness
09:50:19 and the protection of everybody in the city with regard
09:50:22 to this issue, a transgender, or gender identity
09:50:26 category should have been placed in the exemption.
09:50:28 City attorney Chip Fletcher told the Tribune that cross
09:50:32 dressing is not covered under this new proposed
09:50:36 ordinance, but individuals who are undergoing sexual
09:50:39 assignment surgery.
09:50:41 I would like to see those words somewhere in the
09:50:45 defining ordinance.
09:50:46 Because they are not there and this is not right for
09:50:49 the city to be making this kind of representation to
09:50:52 the people when it's not accurate.
09:50:57 Traditional criteria for adding a category to any civil
09:51:02 rights ordinance is one to prove a demonstrable pattern
09:51:06 of discrimination exists against a class as a whole.
09:51:11 Does that pattern of discrimination result in economic
09:51:14 hardship among the class, and the class seeking
09:51:17 protection is unchangeable.
09:51:21 And I have yet to see any complaints filed, I have yet
09:51:24 to see, there's somewhere between one or maybe ten, and
09:51:29 we are here today to discuss that.
09:51:32 This is all about politics.
09:51:34 And African-Americans pushed for the right thing to do,
09:51:38 the civil rights act of 1963.
09:51:40 They produced six government warehouses of documents
09:51:45 supporting their claim.
09:51:48 We have not seen those claims today.
09:51:50 The City of Tampa's sexual orientation ordinance has
09:51:53 had less than four complaints filed in the last 18
09:51:59 But not one complaint has resulted in an adjudication,
09:52:03 an actual court finding, that anybody who is
09:52:07 discriminated against on the basis of sexual
09:52:10 I would say transgender issue is far less than that.
09:52:14 I encourage this board to look into this as a political
09:52:19 social approval.
09:52:20 That's what this is all about today, and it has nothing
09:52:23 to do with real discrimination complaints.
09:52:26 I am going to hand you our summary of the
09:52:31 discrimination cases in Tampa.
09:52:33 (Bell sounds)
09:52:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:52:38 >> (Off microphone)
09:52:38 >> My address is 10020 Oxford Chapel Drive, Tampa,
09:52:50 Thank you.
09:52:50 >> We had 2,000 e-mails.
09:52:56 >> Excuse me, that doesn't matter. What's required is
09:53:00 they state their name and address.
09:53:02 Whether they are in the city or not is irrelevant at
09:53:05 this point.
09:53:05 It's a public hearing.
09:53:12 Let's be careful here now, because the problem is that
09:53:14 this is a public hearing, and we are starting now to
09:53:18 ask whether they are in the city, out of the city.
09:53:20 In my opinion that's not appropriate.
09:53:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But what you think is relevant and
09:53:28 I think is relevant, I am not going to ask every time,
09:53:32 Mr. Chairman, out of deference to your request.
09:53:34 But I don't believe it's irrelevant.
09:53:36 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I have to say something.
09:53:38 We have somebody that comes to Temple Terrace that
09:53:39 comes here to tell us what to do, and you know who he
09:53:43 is, Mr. Dingfelder.
09:53:44 He's here every week.
09:53:46 And we recognize him.
09:53:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's hear from the public.
09:53:49 Yes, ma'am.
09:53:49 >> My name is Karen Putney, 2613 west Watrous Avenue.
09:53:54 I would like to thank you for the process which allows
09:53:58 for the second reading which gives the community time
09:54:00 to consider what's before you, and to listen to all
09:54:06 I have heard, participated in and read the discussion
09:54:09 on this issue, and my understanding of those who oppose
09:54:14 this language being included, is a discussion of how
09:54:18 and why to discriminate.
09:54:21 And I think clearly makes the case for why this
09:54:23 language does need to be included in the ordinance, why
09:54:27 this protection needs to be afforded.
09:54:29 My children are a fourth generation of our family in
09:54:33 They are adults.
09:54:33 I have three adult children.
09:54:35 I'm a mom.
09:54:36 I'm a quaker.
09:54:37 I'm a lot of things.
09:54:38 I'm a citizen of Tampa.
09:54:39 And I'm hopeful that my children will want to settle in
09:54:44 But my children are of a generation who recognize that
09:54:48 they want to live in a place, a community where there's
09:54:53 equity for all citizens, and where every citizen's
09:54:57 potential may be fulfilled.
09:54:59 And that means that this ordinance needs to have this
09:55:04 language in it for my children to be able to settle
09:55:08 They have very high standards for the community.
09:55:10 They want to live in high expectations.
09:55:13 And I'm hopeful that you will pass this language in
09:55:18 this amendment to allow for my community to be the
09:55:21 community, my children can settle in.
09:55:24 Thank you.
09:55:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Karen.
09:55:27 >> Next speaker?
09:55:28 >> Todd Marks, 1040 greenmont drive, Westchase, and on
09:55:39 Kennedy, if that matters.
09:55:44 Council's proposal to amend the human rights ordinance
09:55:46 to include gender expression or gender identity is an
09:55:50 unconstitutional assault on freedom of association of
09:55:55 It's an assault on free enterprise and it's morally
09:56:02 The human rights ordinance is wrong because it impedes
09:56:05 on the Constitutional rights of others and freedom of
09:56:08 And it is morally wrong to force those who have an
09:56:13 objection to transgender life-style to accept as
09:56:16 The proposed law is wrong by the list of protected
09:56:20 classes or suspect class.
09:56:22 Council is extending the human rights ordinance to
09:56:24 exceed protections afforded under the United States
09:56:28 Gender identity and expression is not a protected
09:56:32 There is no trait having a sex change surgery is not an
09:56:38 immutable characteristic such as skin color.
09:56:41 I chose to wear a suit today and not jeans -- in fact
09:56:48 discrimination occurs daily in the workplace.
09:56:51 For instance employees are not to wear suggested
09:56:57 Employees are required under Florida law, in fact to
09:57:02 fire someone without cause.
09:57:04 Under this change an employer could fire someone for
09:57:06 wearing suggested clothing to work, but not if they are
09:57:10 transgender, or as part of the discussion a cross
09:57:16 For wearing the same outfit for fear of government
09:57:20 intervention under this proposal.
09:57:23 The law impedes unconstitutional right to business
09:57:26 owners and individuals who do not share the same value
09:57:28 system the same way the boy scouts of America case
09:57:32 where the boy scouts were allowed to exercise their
09:57:35 freedom of association and choose to associate with
09:57:38 those who had norms and values like themselves.
09:57:41 Clients and customers of a business can certainly
09:57:43 discriminate against the business who chooses to retain
09:57:46 someone who has undergone a sex change operation and to
09:57:49 force a business to do so at a time when we have
09:57:52 skyrocketing unemployment, insurance, and time when
09:57:55 taxes are excessive and we have an 11% unemployment
09:57:58 rate, it's an invitation to litigation.
09:58:02 It is an assault on business.
09:58:04 (Bell sounds)
09:58:05 We would ask you to reconsider this proposal.
09:58:07 It hurts families.
09:58:08 It hurts businesses.
09:58:09 It's unconstitutional.
09:58:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:58:11 Next speaker.
09:58:12 >>> Tobias Packer, in Miami.
09:58:24 I come here on behalf of nearly 10,000 members of
09:58:26 quality Florida, Florida State wide lesbians, gay,
09:58:30 transgendered organization, and 10,000 members here in
09:58:33 the Tampa area a.
09:58:35 I'm also a transgender person who has experienced the
09:58:38 discrimination in employment firsthand.
09:58:41 I actually came to the Tampa area directly after
09:58:45 graduating from an Ivy league institution looking for
09:58:47 employment, and I had employers tell me specifically
09:58:50 that they could not hire me, would not hire me because
09:58:53 I am a transgendered person.
09:58:56 I would like to thank the council for your vote fro two
09:58:59 weeks ago for voting unanimous unanimously to bring
09:59:02 this matter forward, and a I thank you for recognizing
09:59:04 the discrimination is wrong.
09:59:08 Thank you for your support for this.
09:59:10 Common sense measure that cities across the country and
09:59:12 across our state as Philip Dinkins said, there are 17
09:59:17 municipalities hear in the State of Florida who already
09:59:18 have this on the books.
09:59:21 I know since your vote two weeks ago that a church in
09:59:26 the county has asked its members to bombard you with
09:59:30 letters and e-mails to say terrible things about
09:59:33 transgendered people, like myself, people who advocate
09:59:36 for civil rights and for Tampa to be a fair city.
09:59:39 They hope to inspire fear and confusion but I really
09:59:42 ask that you simply look at the facts and the legal
09:59:44 realities of this measure.
09:59:46 The majority of the fortune 500 companies, several of
09:59:50 whom have representatives here today to speak with you
09:59:52 about this issue.
09:59:55 And major, major employers in Tampa already support
09:59:59 this measure, already have these in their company
10:00:01 policies in this measure, because they know the
10:00:05 They know that including gender identity, gender
10:00:09 expression, in the company policy and in the city, they
10:00:17 help people overcome barriers to support themselves, to
10:00:20 become contributing members of society.
10:00:25 These policies ensure that no citizen of Tampa will
10:00:27 face discrimination in the workplace, and improves the
10:00:31 local economy by drawing the bright and brightest and
10:00:34 making sure that the workplace and citizens of Tampa
10:00:39 who value someone's ability to contribute to a matter
10:00:42 as opposed to based on individual bias and prejudice.
10:00:47 So on behalf of a quality Florida, Florida State wide
10:00:51 GLBT organization, I thank you for your support for
10:00:53 this measure.
10:00:54 >> Thank you.
10:00:55 Next speaker.
10:00:56 >>> Good morning, members of the council.
10:01:03 My name is Reverend W. James Favorite, and I'm the
10:01:07 pastor of the Beulah Baptist Institutional Church here
10:01:10 in Tampa, also the president of Pastors on Patrol
10:01:14 organization in Tampa.
10:01:17 In our meeting on this past Monday, we decided that it
10:01:21 was time that we would get involved and speak up, and
10:01:28 we have heard so much about this gender identity
10:01:36 I've heard a number of individuals already that talks
10:01:40 about civil rights and discrimination, which appear to
10:01:48 be just a covering to hide what this really is about.
10:01:54 What we believe it's about is that it's about an
10:01:58 abandonment of our core values.
10:02:01 I do not understand, as I read the ordinance, it talks
10:02:07 about a new definition for gender identity.
10:02:14 Why do we need a new definition for gender identity?
10:02:19 Why do we need to cover up this idea of men and women
10:02:25 cross dressing to gain entrance into areas that
10:02:31 otherwise they would not be privy to?
10:02:36 Why do we have to give consideration to this which will
10:02:38 allow preying on our children, defiling our young men
10:02:44 and women, proliferating this kind of perversion, in my
10:02:53 opinion is irresponsible.
10:02:55 Giving opportunity to sex offenders, to molest our
10:03:00 children, sex offenders, crossing the line back and
10:03:05 forth at their convenience, getting up in the morning
10:03:09 and deciding that they don't want to be a male or a
10:03:13 female or deciding that they want to be one or the
10:03:18 I think that the attorneys spoke earlier talked about
10:03:24 based upon reproduce I've Morgans that that is covered.
10:03:29 We understand that.
10:03:29 (Bell sounds)
10:03:31 Sexual predators have to register.
10:03:34 >> Thank you, Dr. Favorite.
10:03:39 Next speaker.
10:03:39 >> My name is Martha Clark, 7906 tangerine drive,
10:03:47 Tampa, Florida.
10:03:48 I don't represent any group here today.
10:03:51 I read the article in the paper yesterday.
10:03:53 And because of my faith and my belief that this had
10:03:56 does enhance our core values, I knew I had to come.
10:04:01 I come as a Christian, attempting to live a Christ life
10:04:06 and a woman who was married for 30 years to a Methodist
10:04:09 clergyman who finally came out as homosexual.
10:04:12 My Christian faith is based on the Bible as the word of
10:04:15 God of love.
10:04:16 And I choose to read the Bible as God's message of love
10:04:20 to all people.
10:04:22 Because of my understanding of God, I do not choose to
10:04:25 pick out selected Bible verses that support my human
10:04:28 beliefs and prejudices.
10:04:30 I agree with former president Franklin D. Roosevelt
10:04:34 that there's nothing to fear but fear itself.
10:04:37 And I regret seeing the potential fearsome issues being
10:04:40 raised as a major reason to vote against this issue.
10:04:44 My pastor said when I told him I was going to do this,
10:04:47 my pastor said he didn't see how any group could deny
10:04:51 any person or child of God, legal and human rights,
10:04:54 that are offered to others.
10:04:56 I come as a woman who came to understand the deep
10:04:59 suffering of homosexuals and others dealing that gender
10:05:04 value experience because of the way others treats judge
10:05:06 them and tree them after my husband came out I went
10:05:10 with him to the metropolitan community church to social
10:05:12 gatherings and eventually when he found his partner and
10:05:15 soulmate I spent time with them both.
10:05:17 After I married again, my second husband and I have
10:05:21 visited with them and went together to my first
10:05:23 husband's memorial service.
10:05:25 He was 85 when he died in June.
10:05:28 I am honoring him by writing a book God has long called
10:05:32 me to write.
10:05:33 It will be called "love never fails, everyone when you
10:05:36 learn your husband is gay."
10:05:39 [ Laughter ]
10:05:40 I honor him and the struggles he has gone through by
10:05:43 speaking today on behalf of this measure and I applaud
10:05:47 you for your decision.
10:05:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
10:05:53 >> My name is Terri temple.
10:05:57 I live at 2312 cherry ridge lane in Brandon.
10:06:01 I'm president of communities council, a local
10:06:04 organization that promotes Judeo Christian values in
10:06:08 our community throughout the Tampa Bay area.
10:06:09 And I have three points I would like to make quickly.
10:06:12 First, this is about discrimination.
10:06:15 If you pass this ordinance, then you will be
10:06:18 discriminating against me and against Christian people
10:06:21 who believe the Bible means what it says
10:06:28 The Bible also says that we are supposed to love --
10:06:32 Hold it one second.
10:06:33 Again I will not tolerate any outburst or any clapping.
10:06:36 This is a public hearing.
10:06:40 Respect these chambers.
10:06:41 Thank you.
10:06:41 >> It is my -- is my time reset?
10:06:46 >> Yes.
10:06:46 >> The Bible says that we are to love one other, and we
10:06:50 do love one another.
10:06:52 But the Bible also says that as Christians we are not
10:06:56 supposed to promote behavior that the Bible definitely
10:07:00 says is wrong, that will separate people from God.
10:07:02 We are supposed to do all that we can do to introduce
10:07:05 people to Jesus Christ because it's only through a
10:07:07 personal relationship with him that people can truly be
10:07:14 If you pass this ordinance, you will also be raising
10:07:17 the decision that a person makes as to whether or not
10:07:20 surgery on sexual organs elevates them in terms of the
10:07:25 law to that same consideration that you would have for
10:07:29 national origin, color of skin, age, disability,
10:07:35 marital status, or religion.
10:07:38 And also I would urge you to consider the unpossible
10:07:41 unintended consequences if you do pass this.
10:07:45 I've heard the city attorney say that this would only
10:07:47 cover people who were in the process of sexual surgery,
10:07:53 exactly what that is, or who already had it happen.
10:07:57 If that's the case, if that's really the desire of the
10:08:00 city to pass this ordinance with that meaning, then the
10:08:04 ordinance should say that.
10:08:05 It should be very clear.
10:08:08 It's obvious from the amount of litigation that has
10:08:10 come from other human rights ordinances inclusions of
10:08:15 sexual orientation an transgenderism that if you leave
10:08:19 any possible ambiguity in the way the ordinance is
10:08:22 written, you will be inviting lawsuits, then it will be
10:08:26 decided by the courts and not by you all.
10:08:29 Thank you very much.
10:08:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:08:32 Next speaker.
10:08:32 >> Ladies and gentlemen of the council, my name is Nick
10:08:38 Korous. I work in the Westshore district.
10:08:43 I represent Blue Cross Blue Shield.
10:08:46 Since 2007 Blue Cross Blue Shield of Florida
10:08:48 implemented gender expression identity to its equal
10:08:52 employment opportunity policies and procedures.
10:08:54 We are joined by approximately 20 other companies doing
10:08:57 business here in the Tampa Bay area that have gender
10:09:01 identity and expression inclusive anti-discrimination
10:09:04 policies in place.
10:09:05 Many of these companies doing business in Tampa
10:09:07 contribute substantially to our local economy.
10:09:10 They employ very conservatively, at least 10,000 or
10:09:13 more individuals in Tampa and the bay area and across
10:09:16 our state.
10:09:17 The majority of these are well-known fortune 500
10:09:20 They include Ameriprise and Bank of America, Barnes and
10:09:25 Nobel, Best Buy, Deloitte and Touche, Ernst & Young, JP
10:09:28 Morgan Chase, KPMG, Marriott, Microsoft, Nielsen Media,
10:09:33 Price Waterhouse Coopers, Raymond James, Raytheon, and
10:09:38 In fact hundreds of companies have enacted policies to
10:09:41 protect lesbians, gay, bisexual transgender employees.
10:09:46 According to the HRC, as of September 2009, 343, that's
10:09:50 87% of Fortune 500 companies, had implemented
10:09:54 nondiscrimination policies that include sexual
10:09:54 orientation, and 207, that is 41%, had policies that
10:09:59 include gender identity.
10:10:01 But let's bring the discussion back to Tampa and the
10:10:03 bay area.
10:10:05 A number of the companies I mentioned before are also
10:10:07 charter members of the Tampa Bay Out and Equal
10:10:10 The Tampa Bay Out and Equal affiliate was founded March
10:10:13 of this year.
10:10:14 Our mission is simple, to educate and empower
10:10:17 individuals and organizations through programs and
10:10:19 services that result in equal policies, opportunities,
10:10:22 practices, and benefits in the workplace, regardless of
10:10:25 sexual orientation and gender identity of expression.
10:10:29 We are the first affiliate in the State of Florida, and
10:10:32 only the second affiliate in the southeast besides
10:10:35 Our founding member organizations strive to create
10:10:40 equitable workplaces for all of their employees.
10:10:43 The member organizations include Blue Cross Blue
10:10:44 Shield, JP Morgan Chase, Raymond James,
10:10:48 Pricewaterhouse, Verizon, and Tropicana.
10:10:52 In closing let me mention here that the media has
10:10:55 reported the house Democrats on the education and labor
10:10:57 committee appear united in favor of passage of the
10:10:59 Employment Nondiscrimination Act, ENDA.
10:11:03 This bill has the support of a number of House
10:11:05 Republicans as well.
10:11:06 And it would prohibit --
10:11:08 (Bell sounds)
10:11:09 Thank you.
10:11:09 >> Thank you, sir.
10:11:10 Next speaker.
10:11:11 >> Good morning.
10:11:14 My name is Tony Smart.
10:11:16 I reside at 10213 west fourth court, Tampa, Florida,
10:11:21 the pastor of victory Baptist church.
10:11:23 Regarding extending privileges to transgender and
10:11:29 transsexuals to parade what many in the community would
10:11:33 consider to be abhorrent behavior.
10:11:36 It should be noted that such behavior is a choice that
10:11:39 runs contrary to the norms that have been established
10:11:43 over the course of 5,000 years of human civilization.
10:11:48 The Lord Jesus Christ recognizes two genders, male and
10:11:55 Where is the concern for the safety of the children
10:11:58 that will be adversely affected by this ordinance?
10:12:02 Where is your conscience in terms of supporting common
10:12:06 decency and morality for your citizens?
10:12:09 Who gave the authorities for the -- the civil authority
10:12:14 the right to legitimize abhorrent and perverse behavior
10:12:20 on the rest of society?
10:12:21 Before any legislative body would implement policy that
10:12:27 will affect every aspect of society in such an adverse
10:12:30 and possibly negative manner, they should submit to it
10:12:33 to a local referendum. Let the people decide. Submit
10:12:37 it to the citizenry. Let them decide if they want this
10:12:41 If you do this, on your own, and establish public
10:12:45 policy, what is obviously a moral choice, then you will
10:12:48 actually overstep your responsibilities and authority
10:12:53 as an elected body representing the people.
10:12:55 And if you do this, then God and history will judge you
10:12:58 for calling evil good.
10:13:01 Thank you very much.
10:13:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:13:03 Next speaker.
10:13:03 >> My name is Stephanie Nichols. I live at 116114
10:13:12 Gardendale Avenue in Tampa.
10:13:16 My name is Stephanie Nichols and I own my own home in
10:13:20 I live full time as you see me today.
10:13:22 I may not fit the cookie cutter of a man or woman but
10:13:26 no one is perfect.
10:13:26 I'm here today to speak in favor of the proposed human
10:13:29 rights ordinance amendment.
10:13:30 Passage of the amendment would greatly help my sisters
10:13:33 and brothers who are transitioning or plan on
10:13:36 transitioning in the future.
10:13:38 It's in a piece of cake to go and ostracize one's self.
10:13:43 We may appear queer but believe me it's not
10:13:47 Most transgendered people seek to become stealth in
10:13:51 their presentation.
10:13:53 Being in this protected class would help tremendously.
10:14:00 When we transition we lose so much.
10:14:02 We lose friends, families, co-workers, camaraderie,
10:14:05 transitioning is an emotional roller coaster.
10:14:08 No one during this rocky period as evidently seen by
10:14:13 the former manager of Largo.
10:14:16 As a member of this sorority I personally know at least
10:14:19 is a girls whose employers have found ways to dismiss
10:14:23 them when ultimately it's because they didn't want to
10:14:25 deal with the situation.
10:14:26 Don't get me wrong.
10:14:27 On the other hand, you may be surprised how many
10:14:29 sisters that you may be working with without suspecting
10:14:34 Our ultimate goal is to correct a personal wrong.
10:14:37 We don't want to force ourselves on anyone.
10:14:39 This amendment should have zero cost on government.
10:14:41 We want to be good neighbors.
10:14:43 We are more tentative of you than you of us.
10:14:48 With the bathroom issues, my experiences when my mother
10:14:52 called me "dad" in the ladies' room.
10:14:54 You could hear a pin drop.
10:14:57 Intelligent people work through bathroom issues,
10:14:59 though. Some solutions have been fair and others not
10:15:02 well thought, I think.
10:15:04 At your previous meeting I see you were discussing
10:15:06 those who could financially afford a sex change
10:15:10 operation that would be the basis for your protection.
10:15:12 I believe this is wrong.
10:15:14 Some of the most beautiful transgendered girls I know
10:15:17 who are assets to employers have not been able to
10:15:22 afford the so-called bottom surgery. Sometimes it's
10:15:25 better not to legislate in certain areas.
10:15:27 I guess the bottom line for me is that by passing this
10:15:31 amendment it's fair and it's the right thing to do.
10:15:34 Thank you.
10:15:35 If you have any questions I would be happy to use up my
10:15:37 remaining minutes.
10:15:40 Thank you very much.
10:15:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
10:15:42 >> Good morning.
10:15:49 I'm pastor Bob Gustafson, I'm the president of the
10:15:52 Hillsborough County Christian educators association.
10:15:56 I'm really here today more than anything to represent
10:16:01 We are involved in educating children and schools and
10:16:04 preschool programs.
10:16:07 And my great concern is the images being put forward to
10:16:12 We are living in a culture today that's in crisis.
10:16:16 We have so many children that have tremendous
10:16:19 difficulty in their families, with divorce, with so
10:16:22 many parents struggling.
10:16:25 We have got kids today that are looking for role
10:16:28 They are looking for images.
10:16:30 And I believe biblically God has established a very
10:16:34 powerful image, he created man and woman.
10:16:37 He wants us to represent ourselves properly in the
10:16:41 presence of these children.
10:16:42 And I believe so much that we have got to project those
10:16:48 models that God has established in his word.
10:16:52 I work with kids all the time, and I can say that the
10:16:55 crisis that I see, the struggle that I see, trying to
10:16:59 understand where they are, who they should be.
10:17:04 We have got to project to these children strong
10:17:07 Biblical images.
10:17:08 We have got to encourage them to do what's right.
10:17:11 And I believe today we have got children that don't
10:17:13 know who and what they are anymore.
10:17:15 Because the images being projected by our culture are
10:17:19 really confusing our children.
10:17:21 Destroying their heart and mind.
10:17:22 And I believe so much that we have got to stand and
10:17:25 help these kids.
10:17:27 I believe what is being proposed today is more that
10:17:31 will hurt their heart and mind, that will confuse them
10:17:35 even further, because I believe the Biblical role
10:17:39 models are the ones God has given to us, and we must
10:17:42 project them, and the hearts and minds of our children.
10:17:45 You know, I pray that when it's all said and done we
10:17:49 might consider the children more than anyone here
10:17:51 We are all adults.
10:17:54 I believe the children are the ones that he would ought
10:17:55 to look at, we ought to care for, and what you do today
10:17:59 will have a tremendous impact towards the children in
10:18:06 our county, in our city, in our nation.
10:18:08 Thank you.
10:18:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:18:11 Next speaker.
10:18:11 >>> Good morning.
10:18:15 My name is Beth Shimko, the distribution manager for
10:18:20 Frito Lay, a division of Pepsico.
10:18:23 I have been in my position for ten years, began as a
10:18:25 route sales driver and worked my way up through the
10:18:27 company through a nonprofit.
10:18:28 I have been given every opportunity to succeed within
10:18:31 my organization, not because of or in spite of my
10:18:34 gender, my sexual orientation, religion, or color.
10:18:38 But because Frito Lay fosters hard work and dedication
10:18:42 and above all else has gone above and beyond to make
10:18:44 sure that their employees are judged by merit, not by
10:18:49 Pepsico demonstrates the value that I believe makes
10:18:52 them the industry leader. Reflective of these ideas,
10:18:54 our CEO Indra Nooyi, personally signs off on all
10:19:04 diversity issues.
10:19:05 From her own words, she will make sure that we have an
10:19:07 environment where every employee can bring the whole
10:19:11 self to work.
10:19:12 She meets regularly with employee resource groups from
10:19:14 around the world, and she holds her direct reports
10:19:18 accountable for diversity goals.
10:19:20 Not only I do believe this is the right thing to do,
10:19:22 but it makes sound economic business sense.
10:19:25 Pepsico is dedicated to hiring and promoting the best
10:19:29 people available.
10:19:30 In order to do this, making inclusivity a part of our
10:19:33 culture is paramount.
10:19:35 In doing so, the best and the brightest will be
10:19:37 attracted, not only to its successful fortune 500
10:19:41 company, but they will be confronted by the assurance
10:19:43 of a workplace that makes their employees feel safe,
10:19:47 expected and valued.
10:19:48 They will be happy and more productive without fear of
10:19:50 discrimination and thereby be motivated and empowered
10:19:54 to work hard and to bring the best.
10:19:59 They will also be assured growth and promotion
10:20:01 throughout hard work and determination knowing that
10:20:03 they are protected from discrimination and prejudice.
10:20:07 I am very proud to be associated and employed by
10:20:11 The culture of our organization is one where we truly
10:20:13 are a team.
10:20:14 This could not be the case if we did not foster
10:20:17 inclusive and respect for the individuals that make up
10:20:20 our team.
10:20:21 I am certain that this is the core of our success.
10:20:25 I am certain that this is the core of our success at
10:20:28 Pepsico, and to take it a step further I believe that
10:20:31 it is the core of our success as a country, a state, a
10:20:34 city and a town.
10:20:35 The whole is much stronger than the sum of its parts.
10:20:38 As people we need to come together as one, rid
10:20:41 discrimination everywhere.
10:20:42 Each company, city, town, state, joins in the belief --
10:20:47 (Bell sounds).
10:20:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:20:48 Next speaker.
10:20:49 >> Good morning.
10:20:54 Stacie Overstreet, 10718 -- Riverview.
10:20:59 I'm here today because the ordinance is not clear.
10:21:03 If you don't specify -- I'm hearing Frito Lay is a good
10:21:10 company, the Bible says love, Jesus, if we are going to
10:21:13 quote the Bible, absolutely, God claims a man sleeping
10:21:17 with a man is an a domination, a woman sleeping with an
10:21:20 A woman is an abomination.
10:21:22 It even goes on to say they should be put to death.
10:21:24 So God is a love of love but he's also a God of order
10:21:28 and structure.
10:21:28 And our children are being victimized.
10:21:33 Itch an eleven-year-old daughter, a 16-year-old son,
10:21:35 and a 14-year-old daughter.
10:21:39 If a man walks in the bathroom where my daughter is
10:21:42 using the bathroom, we are going to have a problem.
10:21:45 And I'm not saying that perverts are all homosexuals.
10:21:50 There are straight perverts.
10:21:51 But it makes it very, very unclear to distinguish if we
10:21:56 are saying that when you wake up, you can decide,
10:21:59 because the ordinance says you can decide if you are a
10:22:02 man today or a woman today.
10:22:04 We are not discriminating against homosexuals using the
10:22:09 They can use the restroom.
10:22:10 Go into the male restroom.
10:22:12 If you have a Y chromosome in your body you are a man.
10:22:16 Go into the men's restroom.
10:22:18 Go into the woman's restroom.
10:22:21 As an African-American, I'm insulted every single time
10:22:25 I hear "civil rights."
10:22:28 I didn't have a choice.
10:22:29 I was born black.
10:22:31 Not very dark skin, but I was born black.
10:22:34 And if I had shown up in southern Mississippi or Money
10:22:40 Mississippi, like Emmitt Till, and use my northern
10:22:43 ways, I may not have been here.
10:22:46 But that was a choice for individuals.
10:22:50 You can snicker.
10:22:51 It's a choice.
10:22:52 God didn't make a mistake.
10:22:54 God does not make mistakes.
10:22:56 When you are born, you are born a man.
10:22:58 That wasn't an accident.
10:22:59 Maybe your testimony could be "I had some struggles, I
10:23:04 sought council, I spoke with my pastor, I spoke with
10:23:08 Christ," and you worked out those issues.
10:23:11 But to now disguise that as a civil rights issue is an
10:23:15 a domination.
10:23:16 I didn't have a choice of this ordinance.
10:23:18 I didn't even know this ordinance was in place until I
10:23:21 went to church last night.
10:23:22 I'm supposed to be at work right now.
10:23:23 (Bell sounds)
10:23:25 I ask that you vote against this ordinance.
10:23:26 >> Thank you.
10:23:28 Next speaker.
10:23:28 >> Good morning, ladies and gentlemen of the Tampa City
10:23:32 I'm Ted Hower.
10:23:34 I reside at 4618 south Datura Boulevard in Tampa 33601.
10:23:40 I'm here in two capacities. One as the Executive
10:23:42 Director of organizations united together, which is
10:23:46 Florida's federation of local GLBT organizations.
10:23:50 We have memberships from Jacksonville through Key West,
10:23:53 a hundred local organizations and based right here in
10:23:55 Tampa, Florida.
10:23:56 We have many member organizations here in Tampa.
10:23:58 We spoke about equal Tampa Bay, corporate alliance, the
10:24:02 Tampa Bay business gild, also a lot of other
10:24:05 organizations within the Tampa Bay area.
10:24:08 It's important to know that many of these corporate
10:24:10 organizations and businesses have incorporated, and we
10:24:13 heard all the numbers.
10:24:14 A lot of those folks, a lot of those corporations are
10:24:17 here in the Tampa Bay area.
10:24:18 There are 17 municipalities across the State of Florida
10:24:21 who have incorporated these as well as over 100 cities
10:24:24 across the country.
10:24:26 I'm also here as a business person for 20 years.
10:24:29 I was a corporate leader with Raymond James, Verizon,
10:24:32 sage software and Publix.
10:24:34 And we had changes through our different corporations
10:24:37 including Raymond James, which is part of the unequal
10:24:42 network to include gender expression, and not only are
10:24:46 human rights respect, but also it is really smart
10:24:48 business to show the rest of the state and the rest of
10:24:51 this great country that we are inclusive in accepting
10:24:54 of every citizen.
10:24:55 Thank you.
10:24:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:24:58 Next speaker.
10:24:58 >> Good morning ladies and gentlemen of City Council.
10:25:04 My name is reverend Clarence -- a member of pastors on
10:25:08 patrol, address 1006 West Cypress street.
10:25:12 I'm also assistant pastor at Beulah Baptist church.
10:25:16 I am a citizen of the City of Tampa.
10:25:18 I was born and raised here in Tampa.
10:25:21 I lived in Tampa during the time of discrimination,
10:25:24 segregation, was a product of the civil rights
10:25:28 And now we are coming.
10:25:31 And when we had to come against civil rights, when we
10:25:34 had to deal with the discrimination and try to break
10:25:37 this barrier, we had to produce tons and tons of
10:25:42 documented stuff that had occurred, not word of mouth
10:25:46 things like we are hearing here today.
10:25:48 I heard a number of people come in and say that this
10:25:50 person was discriminated against, this person was
10:25:53 discriminated against, I lost this many jobs.
10:25:56 Where is the documentation?
10:25:58 Where is the proof that everyone else has had to bring
10:26:01 to the table to demonstrate that you were discriminated
10:26:06 Stop hiding these things under civil rights, because it
10:26:08 is not a civil rights issue.
10:26:11 And we need to deal with it.
10:26:13 Ladies and gentlemen of council, we are in a voting
10:26:16 year coming up here, and the city is watching.
10:26:19 You need to be careful as to what you do and how you
10:26:22 deal with this legislation.
10:26:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
10:26:26 >> My name is Frank Roder, 908 east Louisiana Avenue in
10:26:33 And I was raised and born a Christian and still follow
10:26:36 the Christian beliefs.
10:26:38 Two weeks ago, I sat in these chambers beaming with
10:26:41 pride and the forward thinking of Tampa City Council to
10:26:44 expand Tampa's human ordinance to include gender
10:26:47 identity and expression.
10:26:48 I'm presently serving in my third term on City of Tampa
10:26:51 human rights board and I serve as vice chair.
10:26:55 Under these protections for gender was not a decision
10:26:57 that was quickly made.
10:26:58 Over the last 15 months, we closely looked at the
10:27:01 impact that this change in law would have to the City
10:27:04 of Tampa.
10:27:05 We closely watched the debate in Gainesville when they
10:27:07 added gender identity expression to their human rights
10:27:10 We heard the scare tactics used there to try to
10:27:13 overturn the law.
10:27:14 These are the same scare tactics that are being used
10:27:16 here again today.
10:27:18 Thankfully the citizens of Gainesville saw through
10:27:20 these false claims and voted to keep gender identity
10:27:23 expression in the city ordinance.
10:27:25 This change of Tampa's human rights ordinance is not
10:27:29 It is promoted as a progressive city that is free of
10:27:34 It is simply matter of fairness and justice for all.
10:27:37 This measure shows that Tampa is a city for existing
10:27:40 and new businesses that are considering relocating to
10:27:43 The measure also adds equal protections to qualified
10:27:46 employees in a city from being unfairly fired.
10:27:49 This is not special rights.
10:27:50 This is equal rights.
10:27:52 With this in mind, I couldn't be more proud to live in
10:27:56 a city that believes in protecting all of its citizens
10:27:59 Our City Council sent a clear and strong message that
10:28:02 discrimination in the workplace is not acceptable.
10:28:04 I commend the City Council for upholding the value of
10:28:07 all Americans of any race whether male or female,
10:28:09 Christian, nonChristian, disabled, gay or transgendered
10:28:14 deserves equal protection in the workplace.
10:28:16 Thank you, members of council.
10:28:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
10:28:18 Thank you.
10:28:19 Next speaker.
10:28:20 >> Good morning.
10:28:23 My name is TARA Fechtal, an 18-year-old senior in high
10:28:32 school, and when I learned of this issue, I thought,
10:28:34 you know what?
10:28:35 There's some issues that you have to pick and choose
10:28:37 your cause but I was really drawn to this one to speak
10:28:40 because I recognized what an impact this could have if
10:28:44 As council members I beg you to understand what this
10:28:46 could lead to, if you enact -- if you make the
10:28:49 modifications, maybe it will solve some problems in the
10:28:52 workplace, maybe it will not add as much difficult, but
10:28:55 you really see what this could lead to?
10:28:58 Is this really a matter of discrimination?
10:29:00 Or is this really something that's attacking the
10:29:02 fundamental values of America, the fundamental values
10:29:06 that are presented even nationally and also down to our
10:29:08 city level?
10:29:09 You as council members, you are sworn in, you are to
10:29:12 protect that.
10:29:13 And as we heard about civil rights and stuff like that,
10:29:17 but say the civil rights activist Martin Luther King,
10:29:21 someone you really look up and we respect that his view
10:29:24 on civil rights, but yet strong values that he based
10:29:27 those on.
10:29:27 Now, this amendment to the rights, are we really
10:29:33 considering what values is this modification based on?
10:29:36 Are we going to undermine those or uphold those?
10:29:39 And when I thought of this expression, it kind of made
10:29:42 me think of how this modification of the rights is
10:29:45 really putting a lot onto the whole feeling thing.
10:29:48 We try to be concrete in a lot of our laws and a lot of
10:29:51 our policies and having.
10:29:52 But this is kind of sending -- something that's so
10:29:55 ambiguous that it's hard to draw a line.
10:29:58 Rights is sort of a delicate issue.
10:29:59 And so this logic, taking this, you know, ways of
10:30:05 presenting things to modify our rights, if I was to
10:30:07 consider myself a dog and I felt like I was a dog and a
10:30:12 I believed I was a dog with all my heart, would that
10:30:15 give me the right to go to the bathroom in the front
10:30:21 You know what I mean?
10:30:23 You see where this can lead, if people think that they
10:30:25 are not -- they are obviously a male.
10:30:27 If they think -- if they are documented as a male, if
10:30:31 they think they are something else.
10:30:33 Yes, they can apply to have their rights modified.
10:30:36 But what does that stop someone from thinking they are
10:30:38 a dog?
10:30:40 Two years from now, are we going to come here and have
10:30:43 people thinking that they are dogs, to modify their
10:30:46 I don't want to compare people to dogs.
10:30:48 I'm not trying to disrespect them in that way.
10:30:50 But please understand what this can lead to.
10:30:53 Thank you.
10:30:54 (Bell sounds).
10:30:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, next speaker.
10:31:03 >> My name is freed, 2907 west San Rafael in the great
10:31:09 City of Tampa, which -- I'm sorry, I was a little taken
10:31:14 aback by the dog scenario but I'll get myself to the
10:31:17 This is a fair, just and right thing to do to protect
10:31:21 all citizens in our great city.
10:31:24 Tampa has been one to embrace and include everyone, and
10:31:29 it's time that we take that extra step forward, and we
10:31:33 include gender identity and expression.
10:31:36 It's about discrimination, period.
10:31:41 You can use the Bible.
10:31:42 You can use whatever you want to use.
10:31:44 But as Mr. Scott, I believe, said, it's solely about
10:31:51 Tampa needs to stand strong.
10:31:52 I would ask the City Council or members to stand
10:31:56 This is what it's all about, discrimination and the
10:31:59 workplace, accommodations, housing, Tampa is no
10:32:03 place -- is not the city that we want for people to
10:32:07 associate the word discrimination with.
10:32:10 It's a horrible word no matter what your race, color,
10:32:16 It's a terrible word.
10:32:17 No one should be discriminated against.
10:32:19 And Tampa needs to step up to do that.
10:32:21 I would ask that you all stand strong to your beliefs
10:32:27 in the discussions that you had the last meeting.
10:32:30 You had a unanimous vote which sent a strong message to
10:32:33 not just the community but the country that Tampa
10:32:39 It embraces all types of businesses, all types of
10:32:42 employees, come to Tampa, help our economy.
10:32:45 We need you.
10:32:46 We need to keep the businesses that we had, and we need
10:32:49 to let other businesses know that we are welcoming them
10:32:52 to Tampa.
10:32:53 And we will protect their employees.
10:32:58 As they said with the majority of fortune 500 companies
10:33:01 supporting diversity and protecting all their employees
10:33:04 in the workplace we can ill afford to lose one business
10:33:07 coming to Tampa.
10:33:09 So your decision to vote this measure through is that
10:33:14 step to get a new business to Tampa, which is to help
10:33:17 this economy.
10:33:18 Thank you so kindly for your time.
10:33:20 >> Thank you very much.
10:33:22 Council, it is now 10:30.
10:33:24 What I would like to do in order to continue this
10:33:27 hearing, there are only two items for staff report.
10:33:30 One is the Tampa regional planning relative to the
10:33:35 Think that's item 15, to our next meeting, and also the
10:33:39 other issue is the diversion program.
10:33:44 I don't know whether we want to continue that to the
10:33:46 next meeting as well.
10:33:47 That will free up another 30 minutes.
10:33:50 And then in the process, we'll have an 11:00 time
10:33:55 certain for the presentation of the transportation
10:34:01 executive report.
10:34:04 If we can push that back 30 minutes to 11:30, that may
10:34:07 help us to free up another hour, to be able to hear the
10:34:12 rest of the speakers.
10:34:13 And try to have discussion.
10:34:15 So we can bring closure on this issue.
10:34:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, based on your remarks
10:34:20 I move for such that.
10:34:21 >> Second.
10:34:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's on item 47 and 45.
10:34:32 And item 45 and 47 be continued to December 3rd.
10:34:35 December 3rd.
10:34:38 It has been moved and seconded.
10:34:39 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:34:42 Yes, sir.
10:34:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And that is part of the motion to
10:34:46 move item 48 and push that back to 11:30?
10:34:50 >> 11:30.
10:34:51 And if my office can check with the commission office
10:34:55 and see if they can delay for about 30 minutes, that
10:34:58 will help us.
10:35:01 While they are doing that we'll continues with this
10:35:03 Next speaker.
10:35:08 >> My name is Terry Kemple, 531 east County Line Road.
10:35:14 I'm just curious as to why, I want to understand where
10:35:19 our citizens are not talking about lesbians, homosexual
10:35:24 or even straight, where our people are not protected.
10:35:28 I don't see there being a risk there.
10:35:33 I know they are claiming discrimination.
10:35:34 But I also want to bring to your attention, I did some
10:35:37 research a number of years ago.
10:35:38 I don't have any numbers in front of me.
10:35:40 But when you compare the annual salary of gay and
10:35:46 lesbians and straight, there's a significant higher
10:35:48 percentage of annual income among gay and lesbians over
10:35:56 I encourage you to investigate that a little bit.
10:36:00 They have been listing a number of large corporations
10:36:04 that have enacted and have policies that are
10:36:06 nondiscriminatory against gays and lesbians.
10:36:10 What I challenge you guys to do, and ladies, sorry,
10:36:15 challenge you all to do is to investigate what those
10:36:17 policies are.
10:36:19 Are they only to protect against being discriminated
10:36:22 against an employment or an advancement?
10:36:26 Is there a transgender protection?
10:36:29 Is there across-dressing protection at those companies?
10:36:34 That's what I'm curious about.
10:36:35 I'm wondering are we talking about apples and oranges
10:36:39 Are transgendered people allowed to come to work one
10:36:43 day as a female and the next day as a male at Verizon?
10:36:47 Are they allowed to go into the restrooms, a man
10:36:52 dressed as a woman go into the ladies restroom at these
10:36:56 I don't believe so.
10:36:57 I would challenge you all to investigate what those
10:36:58 policies are and the companies that they have listed
10:37:02 and claim to be those anti-discriminatory policies in a
10:37:07 large corporation.
10:37:08 Because if Tampa adopts this, I cannot in good
10:37:12 conscience allow my daughter to walk into a bathroom
10:37:15 with the risk of a man being in there.
10:37:17 We all know, you all have been to Europe, the bathrooms
10:37:21 are very close, they are all very closed, you can't see
10:37:25 In the ladies room, I don't know why people design it
10:37:28 this way, the gaps are this huge.
10:37:29 I don't want my daughter sitting on a toilet in a
10:37:31 lady's bathroom and having a man dressed as a woman
10:37:35 walk past the bathroom to see if there are bathroom
10:37:38 stalls available and take a glance at my precious
10:37:40 (Bell sounds)
10:37:47 >> My name is Mike Pheneger. I live at 4219 Hollow
10:37:51 Trail Drive in Tampa.
10:37:55 In unincorporated Hillsborough County.
10:37:57 I am here today because I am on the national and state
10:37:59 boards of directors of the American Civil Liberties
10:38:01 Union, a member of a lot of other organizations
10:38:04 including the NAACP, the association of the U.S. Army.
10:38:08 I am a retired Army colonel spending 30 years on active
10:38:11 Today I'm here particularly as a representative of the
10:38:17 We have had a lot of talk about values today, values of
10:38:22 Christianity, values of our country politically, but
10:38:24 the basic political values that we have in this country
10:38:27 are freedoms and justice and equality.
10:38:31 We didn't start by giving those values to everybody.
10:38:35 It's been a constant -- trying to achieve our best
10:38:41 The transgendered, those who are gender identity and
10:38:44 expression individuals, it's a small class.
10:38:49 If any of you in good conscience can say in this room
10:38:52 or on this council that they are not regularly
10:38:54 discriminated against, I must say that you have your
10:38:57 head in the sand.
10:38:58 There is no absolute Constitutional right for freedom
10:39:01 of expression.
10:39:02 Otherwise, women would still be second class citizens,
10:39:06 blacks would still be second class citizens, gays and
10:39:11 lesbians would still be second class citizens.
10:39:13 What we are trying to do in this change of city
10:39:15 ordinance is to extend the quality and protection to a
10:39:18 class of people who are discriminated against.
10:39:21 We have heard today a litany of horribles, mostly
10:39:24 having to do with what will happen to our children.
10:39:27 The fact of the matter is it's insulting to assume that
10:39:30 these people will in fact be sexual predators or a
10:39:33 danger to children or anybody else.
10:39:36 We all know that most sexual predators are in fact
10:39:39 heterosexual men and women.
10:39:41 We know that because we have good statistical evidence
10:39:44 of it.
10:39:46 They are in our bathrooms all the time.
10:39:49 Today we have a really critical thing.
10:39:52 Several weeks ago, you all voted unanimously based on
10:39:55 your consciences and your ideas of what is right to
10:39:59 vote in favor of this ordinance change.
10:40:02 Today you have a chance to reconsider.
10:40:05 The interesting part about it is, 30 years in the Army,
10:40:08 I saw many issues where you had examples of physical
10:40:13 Today you are being asked to show moral courage, to say
10:40:17 that this is a right thing that you did, and it's a
10:40:20 right thing that you need to continue.
10:40:22 Thank you.
10:40:22 (Bell sounds)
10:40:28 >> Hello.
10:40:29 My name is Donna Kent.
10:40:31 My husband is retired from the military.
10:40:33 My son just got back from Iraq.
10:40:35 We love our country.
10:40:37 We took retirement here 14 years ago and we are now
10:40:40 full-time work with child evangelism fellowship.
10:40:44 This ordinance will not make it safer, happier or
10:40:48 increase morality.
10:40:49 It is clearly deviant behavior which is costly,
10:40:54 dangerous and immoral.
10:40:55 The Bible says that God loves us with an every lasting
10:41:00 He willingly sent his son Jesus to die on the cross to
10:41:03 pay for the sins so that we can have eternal life if we
10:41:06 put our faith and trust in him.
10:41:08 The says he came not to condemn the world but the world
10:41:14 through him might be saved.
10:41:15 But he does talk twice as much about hell as he does
10:41:18 heaven as a warning.
10:41:19 And the Bible says talking about, let me read it to
10:41:21 you, it says against evil and wrong things that people
10:41:28 By their own evil life they hide the truth.
10:41:32 And because the knowledge of him has been made clear to
10:41:37 But because they did these things, God left them and
10:41:40 let them go their own sinful way, wanting only to do
10:41:44 evil, as a result they become full of sexual sin, using
10:41:47 their bodies wrongly with each other.
10:41:48 They traded the truth of God for a lie, worshipped and
10:41:53 served that which was created instead of the God who
10:41:56 created those things who should be praised forever,
10:41:58 Because people did those things, God left them and he
10:42:02 let them do shameful things they wanted to do.
10:42:04 And women stopped having natural sex and started having
10:42:07 sex with other women.
10:42:08 In the same way men stopped having natural sex and
10:42:11 began wanting each other.
10:42:12 Men did shameful things with other men, and in their
10:42:15 bodies they received the punishment of those things.
10:42:18 Now that is what the Bible says.
10:42:20 We came here to do children's work.
10:42:23 We have to be very careful on our computer that pops up
10:42:26 a sexual predator has moved in close around your
10:42:29 Right now if you pass this, any one of the sexual
10:42:34 predators are having a party because they can be able
10:42:37 to have access to whichever gender of our children that
10:42:40 they choose with this ordinance.
10:42:43 I have children.
10:42:44 They are grown.
10:42:44 I have grandchildren that I care about.
10:42:47 If you pass this, you are giving credibility and
10:42:50 recognition to a behavior that is sinful, and it leads
10:42:54 to punishment.
10:42:56 This is not what I came to Tampa for.
10:42:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you put your address on the
10:43:02 >> 2408 Blind Hunt.
10:43:04 Thank you.
10:43:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:43:05 >> My name is Harry Shervase in the USF area.
10:43:22 Stated as being a moral long wrong issue, because the
10:43:35 fetus are identical.
10:43:40 Until the penis developed on the male.
10:43:57 When a child is grown up, the male body, and scans all
10:44:11 brains stating that someone was across gender, and sex
10:44:18 changes, that their brains of a male body to a female,
10:44:24 and got the brain of a man.
10:44:33 It's the truth of the
10:44:36 You don't go on the Bible only.
10:44:43 >> Wimauma, Florida.
10:45:10 I represent faith tabernacle assembly of God on inner
10:45:14 What the whole purpose of me being here today is I did
10:45:17 not know about none of this, and none of our church
10:45:20 members did till we read it in the paper yesterday
10:45:24 And I look up there and you all know that this is just
10:45:29 plain wrong.
10:45:32 We had prayer before we started this service.
10:45:36 We pledged allegiance to the flag, one nation under
10:45:40 Every one of you believe in God.
10:45:42 And you know that if you have ever read your Bible, God
10:45:46 does not approve of this.
10:45:47 And they -- you do not have any approval to try to push
10:45:52 something like this over on people that will make it so
10:45:56 easy to be taken advantage of.
10:46:01 All the remarks that have been made about the bathrooms
10:46:03 and all of this.
10:46:04 Now that when you give them a crack they will open the
10:46:07 door a mile.
10:46:08 So that just gives people more than opportunity to have
10:46:13 the law behind them.
10:46:14 And I'm opposed to it.
10:46:15 Thank you.
10:46:22 >> My name is Michael Gee. My address is 56 E street,
10:46:27 Madeira Beach, Florida.
10:46:28 I lived in Tampa for 40 years until I moved to Pinellas
10:46:31 this past year.
10:46:32 Honorable council members, I am Executive Director of
10:46:34 the Florida organization for gender equality.
10:46:37 And I am a female to male transsexual.
10:46:40 The mission is to educate and advocate for issues
10:46:44 related to gender identity.
10:46:46 I want to thank you today on behalf of my organization
10:46:48 for your service to the City of Tampa and your open
10:46:52 minded and intelligent review of adding gender identity
10:46:55 to this Tampa human rights ordinance.
10:46:57 Tomorrow is the 11th annual transgender day of
10:47:01 remembrance and around the world vigilance will be held
10:47:05 to memorialize transgendered people who died a violet
10:47:10 death, also by the violence of neglect, neglect in the
10:47:15 form of being refused medical treatment for illness and
10:47:17 accidents, neglect in the form of being denied adequate
10:47:19 housing, neglect in the form of being denied access to
10:47:22 homeless shelters.
10:47:25 I can promise you today, I did not choose this.
10:47:29 I can promise you today that I have no sexual interest
10:47:31 in children nor the bathroom habits of anyone.
10:47:35 I urge you to continue in your direction that you took
10:47:39 with a preliminary vote and prohibit discrimination
10:47:41 based on gender identity and employment housing and
10:47:45 Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today.
10:47:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:47:49 Next speaker.
10:47:49 >> Good morning.
10:47:57 I am Howard Ingraham from Wimauma, Florida, also,
10:48:01 affiliated with the church of God.
10:48:04 And I would just like to say that I believe every word
10:48:07 in the Bible, and the lady just read the scripture,
10:48:10 Romans, but there's something else that I'm really
10:48:15 concerned about.
10:48:15 There's a lot of men, homosexuals or bisexual so I
10:48:26 think you have opened up another program that you might
10:48:27 not have thought about.
10:48:29 And I have got six little grandkids.
10:48:31 I have -- or great grandkids.
10:48:34 I'm 78 years old, by the way.
10:48:36 And I got six great grandkids.
10:48:39 Three little girls and three little boys.
10:48:41 And I'm totally concerned, not only about these people,
10:48:44 about the other people that take advantage of that,
10:48:47 because I have been around.
10:48:50 I have been 46 years and met all kinds and have met
10:48:54 people that do that.
10:48:57 Thank you very much.
10:48:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
10:49:00 >> Good morning, council.
10:49:06 Thank you for letting me speak.
10:49:07 My name is Michelle Kenoyer, and I live at 8511
10:49:11 quarterhorse drive in Riverview.
10:49:13 I would like to thank the council for their vote in
10:49:15 support of workplace equality.
10:49:17 And I would like to call upon you to stay strong in
10:49:19 your commitment to protecting the rights of our fellow
10:49:21 Tampa area citizens.
10:49:25 I think it's the right thing, a just think, and the
10:49:29 fair thing to do.
10:49:32 I have also been hearing a lot of concerns about the
10:49:35 safety and the values of our children.
10:49:39 Just to share a personal note with you, my husband and
10:49:41 I recently adopted two children out of the foster care
10:49:45 We care about their safety and values as well.
10:49:49 We also wants to teach them the value of not
10:49:52 discriminating against people just because they are
10:49:55 different from them.
10:49:56 We want them to grow up to treat everybody as equals.
10:50:00 We want them to treat all people, all a Americans,
10:50:03 everybody and every country as human beings.
10:50:06 Thank you very much.
10:50:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:50:10 Next speakers.
10:50:10 >> My name is Clarence Nather prodder, 1709 east
10:50:23 Quonsetta Avenue.
10:50:27 I have been a citizen of the City of Tampa my lifetime.
10:50:30 I won't tell you how old I am.
10:50:31 You can look at me and probably tell that.
10:50:34 But I'm here today to voice my opposition to this.
10:50:37 I've heard many, many people get up and give good
10:50:45 What it all boils down to is protection of privacy
10:50:52 while you are in a restroom.
10:50:53 If you are going to do this, and I hope and pray to God
10:50:57 you won't, to make those bathrooms totally enclosed
10:51:03 separate, not so that they have stalls in them.
10:51:06 I don't want my grandchildren going in them.
10:51:08 I don't want my wife going in them.
10:51:11 I don't want to go in them.
10:51:12 So I'm not going to tell you I represent a large
10:51:17 I am a Christian.
10:51:20 And this is a conviction in me.
10:51:24 It's based on what the Bible says.
10:51:25 I'm not going to read it to you.
10:51:28 Other people read the Bible and I think they covered
10:51:30 that quite well.
10:51:32 But most of my lifetime, I was very proud to be a
10:51:37 citizen of this city.
10:51:40 When you start doing things like this, I'm no longer
10:51:44 proud of it.
10:51:46 It's wrong, morally wrong.
10:51:48 And it's wrong based on my privacy.
10:51:52 And if you start this how are you going to know who is
10:51:56 a transgender?
10:52:00 They are going to lift their dress or pants and that
10:52:05 won't prove anything, unless there's been an operation.
10:52:08 That might prove they had some surgery which still
10:52:11 don't prove anything.
10:52:12 It's wrong.
10:52:14 I'm against it.
10:52:15 And I will not vote for anybody that will vote for
10:52:20 Thank you.
10:52:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
10:52:23 >> My name is June RUDEN, a member of the City of
10:52:35 This isn't promoting, this isn't encouraging.
10:52:38 This is simply tolerance.
10:52:39 When employers look to hire the best, that gives a good
10:52:42 sign that they can do so.
10:52:44 People look at those sort of things.
10:52:46 They are not approving.
10:52:47 They just like tolerance.
10:52:48 That's all it is.
10:52:49 This issue came up a couple months ago.
10:52:51 There was a runner from South Africa.
10:52:54 Her name is Caster Semenya.
10:52:56 She won the world championship gold medal.
10:52:59 And the 100-meter.
10:53:01 It was a controversy over does she have male, part
10:53:05 male, whatever?
10:53:06 The results are supposed to come out tomorrow.
10:53:07 They came out today.
10:53:08 And I am going to read what it says.
10:53:12 Gold medal for the world championships, and as a result
10:53:15 her gender tests will be kept confidential, the South
10:53:17 African sports ministry said Thursday.
10:53:20 Ministry also said in a statement that the
10:53:21 international association of athletic federations has
10:53:24 agreed to allow the 18-year-old Semenya to keep her
10:53:28 prize money, whatever scientific tests were conducted
10:53:32 legally within the IAA athletic regulations will be
10:53:36 treated as confidential matters between a patient and a
10:53:38 The sports ministry said.
10:53:41 As such, there will be no public announcement of what
10:53:44 the panel of scientists has found.
10:53:46 We urge all south Africans and other people to respect
10:53:49 the professional, ethical and moral way of doing
10:53:54 People don't choose to do this.
10:53:58 The problem with going through the Bible is everybody
10:54:01 has a different impression of it, other people have
10:54:03 different interpretations of it.
10:54:04 Some people say homosexuals are an abomination, he
10:54:10 should be stoned to death because my Bible says that.
10:54:13 Well, flip the page. The Bible also says you shouldn't
10:54:13 be saying that. This is about tolerance.
10:54:17 That's all this does.
10:54:18 So please vote it through.
10:54:20 Thank you.
10:54:20 >> Thank you.
10:54:21 Next speaker.
10:54:25 >> My name is Kevin Wright, and I'm a small businessman
10:54:28 here in the City of Tampa, and I want to congratulate
10:54:34 what brought us to this point here, because the
10:54:35 policies that are driving this whole thing have been
10:54:38 successful in collapsing the economy.
10:54:42 You people are fiddling while Rome burns.
10:54:46 Why are we bringing this up now?
10:54:47 Small businesses are suffering.
10:54:50 Foreclosures are up.
10:54:50 Unemployment is up.
10:54:51 And this is what we are spending our city time on.
10:54:56 I'm really here on behalf of a good friend of mine.
10:54:58 He was a product of Hillsborough County schools.
10:55:01 I graduated from Ballast Point elementary back in 1967,
10:55:06 and a young person -- it's hard to sort all this out
10:55:11 here, but Dwight Martin was a friend of main.
10:55:14 He was one of those, you talk about the best and the
10:55:17 He would have been a great employee for Verizon, or
10:55:20 Raymond James or someplace like that.
10:55:22 I think in 99 he would make a 100.
10:55:26 I would make 97, he would make 98.
10:55:29 We had that sort of competition.
10:55:30 Well, there were a couple of teachers from our high
10:55:32 school, Mr. Canfield and Mr. Alvarez, and they had an
10:55:37 apartment here in South Tampa.
10:55:39 When you are that age and you hear about, hey, there's
10:55:41 a party going on at canfield's house, you know, you
10:55:44 don't know.
10:55:44 You don't know.
10:55:46 I had no idea in my innocence.
10:55:48 But there was a lot of weed smoking, some serious
10:55:52 drinking and ended up puking myself silly in the man's
10:55:55 bathroom, and fortunately I wasn't molested.
10:55:57 I don't think Dwight was that lucky.
10:55:59 You see, Dwight, he never made it.
10:56:03 He passed away.
10:56:04 He died drinking, Mr. Canfield's, Mr. Alvarez.
10:56:13 So I'm here on his behalf today.
10:56:15 And what I can tell you is I have learned in my career,
10:56:18 in school, and my career in business, what you are
10:56:22 doing is self-destructive to our community.
10:56:26 If you want to induce homosexuality into a population
10:56:30 of lab rats, all you have to do is overpopulate them.
10:56:35 What you are doing here, people, is something -- you
10:56:40 are driving us over the cliff.
10:56:42 Now those Levings, when they are going over the cliff
10:56:45 because of overpopulation, they think it's perfectly
10:56:47 nice, perfectly right and perfectly natural for them to
10:56:50 do that.
10:56:52 The truth will set you free.
10:56:54 We don't have to do this.
10:56:56 I'm begging for the innocence of our community.
10:56:58 >> Good morning.
10:57:06 My name is Racquel Rocco Vallerane. My address is 3440
10:57:10 Bainbridge Drive. I'm from Holiday, Florida.
10:57:13 I am not a resident of Tampa.
10:57:16 But I felt compelled to be here today.
10:57:20 It's a great honor that you allow us all to speak and
10:57:22 I'm very grateful for that.
10:57:23 I am transgendered.
10:57:25 I'm also a minister.
10:57:27 I'm a family man.
10:57:29 And I'm a parent of two beautiful teenage daughters.
10:57:33 The only thing I'm looking for is not special rights.
10:57:37 I want human rights.
10:57:38 I'm a human being.
10:57:40 I'm not a dog.
10:57:42 I'm not an animal.
10:57:44 I have been working with children for the last ten
10:57:45 years, in and out of the school district of Pasco
10:57:48 And I can honestly tell you, I don't have any desire to
10:57:52 harm them in any way.
10:57:55 I believe that this ordinance needs to go through.
10:57:58 We need to have something.
10:58:00 Unfortunately, you know, there are going to be people
10:58:03 out there that are going to take advantage of this.
10:58:05 I can't help that.
10:58:06 But there are a lot of good people like us out there
10:58:08 that need to be protected.
10:58:10 Up until three months ago I was working as a drug and
10:58:12 alcohol counselor.
10:58:13 And because of the covert, uncomfortableness because of
10:58:16 my transition, I went ahead and decided to leave my
10:58:23 I decided then that I would just go ahead and find
10:58:25 something part time so I can continue to be a good
10:58:27 father to my girls.
10:58:29 I was lucky enough to find a job just recently.
10:58:32 But I can't tell you how scary it was not knowing if I
10:58:35 would be able to provide for my family, because I may
10:58:37 not get hired.
10:58:39 I'm definitely not -- a lot of people wonder, is he
10:58:46 male or female?
10:58:47 I will not list because I'm transgendered and I'm
10:58:50 really proud of that.
10:58:51 But I hear a lot of the religious going on, and as a
10:58:55 minister I'm offended.
10:58:56 I am saddened that people are using religion as a guise
10:59:00 for hate.
10:59:01 All I can keep thinking of standing in this line is
10:59:03 thank God for the separation of church and state.
10:59:06 I do believe that there is a place for morality, and
10:59:09 for religion.
10:59:09 But there's also a time when the law needs to step in
10:59:12 and they need to do something to protect us.
10:59:14 Thank you.
10:59:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
10:59:19 >> Good morning, council.
10:59:24 My name is Louis Bagley, 3217 East Hanna.
10:59:29 And we have heard just about this morning everything of
10:59:31 that we can hear concerning religion.
10:59:34 I would just like to say to you all that I haven't
10:59:37 heard of any facts of anyone beating down any
10:59:44 homosexuals in any bathroom, and if that's not what we
10:59:47 are talking about, then why are we trying to pass this
10:59:52 I would also like to say as the mother back here said
10:59:55 when she was married that her husband made a choice to
10:59:58 be a homosexual.
11:00:01 What you all are going to pass is a law that's going to
11:00:03 end up coming right back around, that's going to be
11:00:07 making a choice if an adulterous decides they want the
11:00:12 same rights, can they then get the same rights?
11:00:15 What I am saying to you is we are talking about if
11:00:18 someone says that they are going to beat down a
11:00:21 homosexual in my workplace, I wouldn't sit there and
11:00:26 watch someone beat one down.
11:00:27 As a Christian I don't dislike them and I don't hate
11:00:30 them. They made a choice.
11:00:31 And that's what we are talking about here this morning,
11:00:33 council. A choice.
11:00:34 And when you make that decision, you are opening a door
11:00:38 to a can of worms that has nothing to do with their
11:00:41 preference, but has everything to do with our state,
11:00:44 and our state of mind here, and where we live at.
11:00:47 So make your choice based on the truth, and where your
11:00:53 heart is and not based on politics and whether you are
11:00:55 going to be voted back in or voted out.
11:00:57 Thank you.
11:00:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:01:01 Next speaker.
11:01:05 Next speaker.
11:01:06 The clock is ticking.
11:01:07 >> (off microphone)
11:01:18 Explaining the human rights ordinance to include
11:01:20 transgendered people is absolutely the right thing to
11:01:24 Discrimination is discrimination.
11:01:27 It doesn't matter what group.
11:01:32 It does the same harm.
11:01:33 >> We have a little trouble hearing you, ma'am.
11:01:37 >> I'm sorry.
11:01:39 Would you like me to start over?
11:01:41 >> No, that's all right.
11:01:42 >> Okay.
11:01:45 Anti-discrimination laws exist to ensure that every
11:01:48 human being is treated equally in the eyes of the law.
11:01:53 This ordinance does not take away anything from the
11:01:57 It doesn't mean people can't believe whatever they
11:02:00 It just means that from a legal standpoint, each person
11:02:04 is equal, and they are going to be judged by their own
11:02:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:02:13 Next speaker.
11:02:14 >> Good morning.
11:02:20 My name Chad Bagley.
11:02:21 I live at 8714 west manor apartments.
11:02:26 I came before you today.
11:02:28 I didn't know this was going on.
11:02:29 I spoke with my father just before you.
11:02:31 My greatest problem with this is that when continue to
11:02:34 go back and forth about religion, and what people
11:02:36 believe or don't believe.
11:02:38 I am a professed Christian.
11:02:40 I do believe in every word that is spoken of and
11:02:42 written in the Bible.
11:02:43 My problem is that the first thing we deal with, we are
11:02:46 going to talk about gender, demon I go and everything.
11:02:51 The first problem is that my problem with homosexuality
11:02:55 is not the people or what they do, it's the fact that
11:02:58 this is a choice.
11:02:59 When I say a choice meaning that there is a mental
11:03:02 health condition that we need to look at.
11:03:04 If you are a man and you say you are a man and you
11:03:05 don't want women but you want a man that acts like a
11:03:08 woman, are you a woman that doesn't want a man and, a
11:03:11 like a woman, then why do you go through the same thing
11:03:14 that you say you don't want?
11:03:15 I think the first thing is the mental health of these
11:03:19 A lot of these things are from their childhood, from
11:03:22 neglect, molestation.
11:03:25 Then when we talk about transgender there needs to be
11:03:28 counseling put in place so they can people can deal
11:03:30 with the issues and problems.
11:03:33 Just take on what people believe and what people think
11:03:36 is right and that's why the condition try -- country is
11:03:39 in the condition it is.
11:03:41 Rome, Babylon, Greece, all these great nations and we
11:03:44 are leading ourselves into that same situation.
11:03:46 The economical problems come from grief, not because --
11:03:52 because people want more than what they deserve.
11:03:54 And we have to all understand and look at ourselves and
11:03:57 evaluate ourselves where we are at in a personal
11:03:59 system, what we are doing, how to operate and I have
11:04:03 nothing personal against these people.
11:04:04 I think they deserve to have jobs, they deserve to
11:04:07 But what I am saying is why does everything that goes
11:04:09 on in their bedroom have to come and affect them in a
11:04:13 personal manner?
11:04:14 I don't think a hetero sexual doesn't deserve special
11:04:19 I'm a black man.
11:04:21 Race I am is things that has not been dealt with.
11:04:24 We continue to move on and we have sweep everything
11:04:27 else under the rug and hope it moves forward and we are
11:04:30 not dealing with the foundation of these problems.
11:04:31 And the problem is that we need to individually check
11:04:33 ourselves and look at ourselves and what we do and how
11:04:38 we not hate and discriminate against people because of
11:04:41 their sexual preference, when their sexual preference
11:04:44 should be kept in their clothing, in the close of their
11:04:49 I don't go out professing what I do with my wife the
11:04:53 night before.
11:04:53 I try to live that.
11:04:55 Thank you.
11:04:55 >> Thank you.
11:04:56 >> Reverend Phyllis hunt, pastor of the metropolitan
11:05:03 community church of Tampa.
11:05:05 Really I appreciate the time that you have given each
11:05:08 and every one of us to speak our hearts and speak our
11:05:13 I'm not quite sure how the issue of protecting a group
11:05:18 of people who don't fit in the norm of what looks like
11:05:27 normal society got derailed into bathroom issues.
11:05:35 What I do know in my 50-plus years of living is that I
11:05:38 have never been asked to expose myself so that I could
11:05:41 be -- so that the rest of the people could be assured
11:05:45 that I was female.
11:05:47 We have to stop putting people in categories of gender.
11:05:53 Gender expression and identity doesn't just protect
11:05:58 folks who identify themselves as transgendered or cross
11:06:03 dresser, but also protect people that other folks might
11:06:06 judge as being anything other than norm.
11:06:09 And what I have experienced in this state is us and
11:06:18 The Christian Judeo values have been quoted in this
11:06:22 place today, and yet there is a missing piece in
11:06:26 interpreting that Biblical text in the fact that we
11:06:30 don't read the Bible as they lived in in this day wrote
11:06:33 We are reading as we live and as we want to interpret
11:06:37 the text for our values today, in antiquity when the
11:06:44 Bible was written, if you were -- if you had rashes on
11:06:47 your body, if you lost a hand or arm you were sent to
11:06:50 the margins of the community.
11:06:52 You were exiled.
11:06:56 We have a human rights ordinance that says no matter
11:06:59 how you are differently able, you are a valuable
11:07:00 contributing person in our society.
11:07:02 The Bible says don't get divorced.
11:07:05 And yet we have laws on the books in every state and
11:07:09 the United States that protect people in their covenant
11:07:12 relationship and allow divorce as an option.
11:07:16 I encourage you to look at the hearts and lives in this
11:07:20 community, four our segregated, separated, violated,
11:07:25 not allowed, fair and equitable housing, and work.
11:07:30 (Bell sounds).
11:07:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
11:07:32 >> My name is Gwen Pybus. I live at 5126 studio drive,
11:07:42 Zephyrhills, Florida.
11:07:43 And I hear a lot that those that are on the side of the
11:07:49 transgender, they say that they are Christians.
11:07:51 I don't believe that they read the same Bible that I
11:07:54 I believe that God was sincere when he burned up Sodom
11:08:03 and Gomorrah.
11:08:06 He made a statement that was very loud and clear even
11:08:06 today. It's not a matter of whether they are
11:08:08 discriminated against.
11:08:10 They need to make a decision about whether or not they
11:08:11 are going to be a man or they are going to be a woman.
11:08:14 If they are born a woman, or they are born a man, so be
11:08:18 They need to dress that way.
11:08:21 We should not have to go through and try to figure out
11:08:25 who is among us.
11:08:28 We have enough of that with the terrorists as it is.
11:08:31 We don't need to have to try to figure out, are you a
11:08:35 man, are you a woman, or have you had a sex change, or
11:08:38 you haven't had a sex change?
11:08:40 I was in J.C. Penney's Sunday and there was a young man
11:08:44 in there, and the woman, the attendant was afraid to
11:08:47 even speak to that man.
11:08:50 And that's what he was, he was a young man, to have him
11:08:53 removed from that dressing room.
11:08:55 And I don't think that that should have to be.
11:08:57 I don't think anyone should have to be put in that
11:08:59 position, to put somebody out because they are a man in
11:09:03 a female dressing area.
11:09:06 I don't think that women should have to be put in that
11:09:08 position that they have to undress or they have to be
11:09:13 concerned about who is in the dressing room with them.
11:09:17 The same goes for men.
11:09:18 They should not have to worry about if there's a female
11:09:23 in the dressing room with them.
11:09:26 I'm asking you all to vote it no.
11:09:28 Thank you.
11:09:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:09:31 Next speaker.
11:09:31 >> Good morning or good afternoon.
11:09:37 My name is Richard Reavis, 3907 West Gray Street.
11:09:41 I'm familiar with a lot of you up there.
11:09:44 I have heard the Bible being brought into this.
11:09:46 I have heard gays.
11:09:47 I have heard homosexuals.
11:09:49 You shouldn't do this, you shouldn't do that.
11:09:51 This isn't about that.
11:09:53 It isn't about whether you are gay, whether you are
11:09:56 This is about what's right.
11:09:57 You know I'm a man because my voice, my hair, I have
11:10:00 got on jeans.
11:10:02 I look like a man.
11:10:03 I don't have female genitalia.
11:10:06 So that's the only reason you know I'm a man.
11:10:09 As a gay man, I've had discrimination.
11:10:12 This isn't about me being gay.
11:10:15 It's about what's right and what's fair.
11:10:20 No discrimination should be allowed regardless.
11:10:24 That's all I have to say.
11:10:25 Thank you.
11:10:26 >> Thank you.
11:10:26 Next speaker.
11:10:27 >> Good afternoon a.
11:10:31 My name is Torano Johnson, I live at 13129 St. Francis
11:10:38 lane in Thonotosassa.
11:10:39 I am here asking you, pleading with you to vote no,
11:10:43 because you are opening up a purpose to come into the
11:10:48 bathroom and put on address, whether they are gay or
11:10:50 not gay, homosexual, if that's the correct term, to
11:10:54 come into the bathrooms, and molest our children.
11:10:58 This is wrong.
11:11:00 This ordinance is immoral, and I will want you to know
11:11:04 I will rally, if you do vote yes, I will rally every
11:11:07 Christian in Tampa to vote against you next election.
11:11:18 >> Good morning, Chairman Scott, members of council.
11:11:20 My maim is Gary Ellsworth, 111 west Chelsea street.
11:11:25 I live in the City of Tampa.
11:11:26 I'm not here representing my neighborhood association
11:11:28 today, although I probably could be because we are open
11:11:31 to all people as long as you pay your $12 a year, you
11:11:35 are welcome to join.
11:11:38 I do want to thank you for your vote, your decision
11:11:41 that you made two weeks ago on this issue.
11:11:44 I think two weeks ago, it was probably a difficult
11:11:48 I think today it's going to be very easy choice for
11:11:52 I think the presence of people lining both sides of
11:11:55 this room, the presence of six or so additional police
11:11:59 officers, certainly speaks volumes about
11:12:03 discrimination, or the possibility of discrimination.
11:12:07 I think when this many people feel this strongly about
11:12:11 either discriminating or not discriminating against
11:12:13 people, I think that's going to make your decision
11:12:17 This is about people being allowed to keep their jobs.
11:12:21 It's about being able to keep their home or their
11:12:25 It's about being able to go to a dinner, to a movie,
11:12:29 and possibly even the church.
11:12:34 I don't think we need to come up with documentation
11:12:36 that would fill warehouses and show atrocities in order
11:12:39 for this to move forward.
11:12:42 It shouldn't have to be like the crimes of the past in
11:12:45 civil rights movements where we have warehouses, and
11:12:48 warehouses of horrible things that happened to people.
11:12:52 The time to act is now, before we have documentation
11:12:55 and problems.
11:12:58 I'll gladly come back here any day and line these walls
11:13:01 with either the we's or the they's or whatever side we
11:13:06 happen to be on, and I'll be back here and speak on
11:13:09 behalf of anybody who is facing discrimination in this
11:13:12 And that's a promise to this council and ton this
11:13:15 Thank you.
11:13:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
11:13:17 >> I live at 8901 Ellis highway which happens to be two
11:13:25 blocks outside the city limits, but Mr. Dingfelder, I
11:13:28 do have Tampa gas in my tank.
11:13:31 And most of the fat I have on is Tampa restaurant fatso
11:13:41 I think I have a right to be here.
11:13:43 I think I can bring my family, I can bring friends that
11:13:45 come into town and we can enjoy the City of Tampa,
11:13:47 amusement parks, the zoo, whatever we want to do.
11:13:50 In the future I'm not so sure that it's going to be the
11:13:53 And, as a matter of fact, I would be very concerned
11:13:55 about it.
11:13:56 I'm confused, I came in here, I have full confidence
11:14:05 that we are going to walk out of here with an
11:14:08 overwhelming majority of the board voting this down.
11:14:11 And I do that because I think I know who you folks are.
11:14:14 I think we studied who you are and I think when support
11:14:16 the people.
11:14:19 As a matter of fact I work with a political action
11:14:21 committee that for 20 years has tried to get the right
11:14:24 people in office across the State of Florida.
11:14:26 Unfortunately, something happened.
11:14:29 We never participated in the Tampa city election.
11:14:32 Something happened where a guy did exactly what
11:14:37 commissioner Miranda said would happen.
11:14:39 He decided to create confusion in the marketplace.
11:14:41 He decided to say, hey, I'm a candidate, this has never
11:14:44 worked four me before, but what I am going to do now is
11:14:47 I'm going to sound gay, that's going to get me a lot
11:14:49 more votes.
11:14:50 And the very man that has done more destruction in the
11:14:52 lives of women in the City of Tampa A and surrounding
11:14:55 areas was up against a lady who faced true
11:14:58 discrimination, and that wasn't right.
11:15:00 We rallied.
11:15:01 We turned a lot of people out to vote.
11:15:04 They came out and supported someone that's sitting in
11:15:06 your midst right now who deserves to be there, over
11:15:09 someone who might have been there.
11:15:10 So I encourage you to do the decent thing.
11:15:13 We are out there watching.
11:15:15 A lot of people aren't here today because they trust
11:15:17 you are going to do the right thing.
11:15:18 Thank you.
11:15:18 >> Thank you.
11:15:19 Next speaker.
11:15:20 >> Good morning.
11:15:25 My name is Aaron Toronto.
11:15:28 I live at 122 north kings Avenue in Brandon.
11:15:40 I am a 20-year-old college student.
11:15:42 I was born as a female.
11:15:44 I now live as a man.
11:15:45 I have been living as a man for five years.
11:15:48 It is a difficult path.
11:15:49 And I did not choose this.
11:15:51 The problem is that people are relating change gender
11:15:55 to homosexuality.
11:15:57 And though they are related, they are not the same.
11:16:01 These are separate issues and I'm sure the council
11:16:03 already understands this.
11:16:05 I have been compared today to recommending, a dog, to
11:16:10 all these crazy things, and like others have said, I am
11:16:13 a human being.
11:16:14 I would like rights and protection and employment.
11:16:18 The reason why there are many documents on -- aren't
11:16:22 many documents on hate crimes is because legislation
11:16:25 just got passed to protect transgendered people.
11:16:29 It is very new.
11:16:31 And, unfortunately, because of such, there isn't enough
11:16:36 But within the transgender community there's also fear
11:16:40 to come out and say.
11:16:44 Everyone my own coming-out story, my family rejected it
11:16:49 outright, my friends rejected it outright.
11:16:51 Still many years later, my family still wants to reject
11:16:56 I know for one I am not sexually active and I will not
11:17:00 be for many years.
11:17:01 That is my choice, to remain not sexually active.
11:17:05 And I will certainly not go into a men's bathroom while
11:17:11 they are taking care of their personal business.
11:17:13 I do not know a single transgendered person who would
11:17:16 do that.
11:17:17 Regardless of how people say that it's only transgender
11:17:24 people that do this, statistics prove that it is not.
11:17:28 Whether you ban transgender people from doing this and
11:17:31 going to the right bathroom or finding work properly,
11:17:36 we are still here.
11:17:38 And so are the pedophiles and perverts that do these
11:17:42 We are separate groups.
11:17:45 We will not -- we are human beings and we understand.
11:17:52 Exactly what it's like.
11:17:54 Thank you.
11:17:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
11:18:03 Anyone else?
11:18:04 >> Members of the council, my name is Coy Morgan,
11:18:09 Christ life ministries, 228 south 78th street,
11:18:13 Tampa, Florida.
11:18:14 I'm here to represent so many of the youth that I
11:18:21 mentor, young ladies, especially our young men.
11:18:25 In the message that we will vote on this ordinance to
11:18:30 allow gender to be preferred to the clothing that a
11:18:36 person wears and to give them the same rights to use
11:18:40 the restrooms that a male would use, or a female would
11:18:44 use, and they have not been born that way.
11:18:49 It is a moral decision.
11:18:50 It's not based on just my Biblical beliefs, but it is a
11:18:54 moral decision, in which we have to understand the
11:18:58 people that will take advantage of this ordinance.
11:19:05 We were at the chuckee cheese, and there were so many
11:19:08 of our little young girls that were feeling comfortable
11:19:10 to go to the restroom by themselves, at a time in their
11:19:14 lives where we as adults and parents should be able to
11:19:16 protect them, in which that's what they look up to us
11:19:18 to do.
11:19:20 And along with that there in the restroom and using the
11:19:24 restroom these little girls were young, naive, and
11:19:29 there is someone that looks like a female but was not a
11:19:35 female in there, genitalia is exposed.
11:19:40 How do you change?
11:19:41 How do you go back and explain to that young person
11:19:47 that that was right for them to see that, or what we
11:19:53 now in our society expect and accept?
11:19:58 To you, those that know to do what's right and choose
11:20:03 not, to you, many of our young adults, our young
11:20:08 people, lives hangs in the balance.
11:20:15 So today, council, I ask you to vote with moral
11:20:18 conscience, to not allow a choice based on what gender
11:20:23 a person would like to be, to be able to bring a
11:20:27 violation, and to be exposed to others, that cannot
11:20:31 protect themselves.
11:20:34 Closing with this, my grandfather always told me, he
11:20:37 said son --
11:20:39 (Bell sounds).
11:20:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, thank you, sir.
11:20:41 Thank you very much.
11:20:44 We won't be able to hear what your grandfather told
11:20:47 You can tell me later, though.
11:20:49 Thank you.
11:20:50 >> I live in Gulfport, but my closest friend just
11:20:57 bought a house in Tampa and I am going to be spending a
11:20:59 lot of time over here with her.
11:21:01 I am a transgender person.
11:21:03 And I'm also many things.
11:21:07 I go to church every Sunday and have all my life and
11:21:10 believe in God, and it was a medical condition that vas
11:21:17 available, and get treatment, and live my life the way
11:21:23 I want.
11:21:24 I have in a desire to go in rooms and harass children
11:21:30 and it's deeply insulting to hear people say this about
11:21:33 transgendered people.
11:21:34 The reason I was sitting down is I'm 100 percent
11:21:40 disabled, Vietnam.
11:21:42 I fought for this country.
11:21:43 This is the freedom I fought for.
11:21:44 And I trust you people are going to make a really good
11:21:46 decision today, fair decision.
11:21:48 Based on law, based on justice, not -- I hate to say
11:21:56 But it also says in the Bible an abomination, the
11:22:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker?
11:22:09 Anyone else?
11:22:10 No other speakers?
11:22:16 >> Two minutes.
11:22:27 Clock is ticking.
11:22:29 >> All right. I'm going to test your little box thing
11:22:29 here. My name is Yasmin Kenny. I live on 3118 Juan
11:22:34 Avenue, Tampa, Florida 33611.
11:22:37 I would like to start with a Johann Von Schiller quote.
11:22:41 (Speaking foreign language.) Try to write that. What
11:22:54 that means is it's a quote from his book "The Artist"
11:22:57 and it means that your humanity has been placed
11:22:59 directly in your hands.
11:23:01 Take good care of it.
11:23:03 With you, it may collectively rise or fall, and with
11:23:08 you it may sink.
11:23:09 Like the translation doesn't really work.
11:23:11 But basically it's a two-way street.
11:23:14 So, anyways, I guess I am one with of those people that
11:23:19 you have been talking about.
11:23:20 Like I don't need surgery.
11:23:24 I identify a transgender individual.
11:23:28 I generally use whatever bathroom has the shortest
11:23:34 Tomorrow is the national transgender day.
11:23:39 I heard a lot of people say things about no evidence,
11:23:45 right in front of me a list of over 100 people.
11:23:48 The variety majority of them are transgender women of
11:23:53 color, the variety majority are poor, I see some
11:23:56 decapitations, shootings, stabbings, beatings, burning
11:24:01 like people were set aflame.
11:24:03 This is serious.
11:24:05 I am not here to grandstand.
11:24:11 This is no agenda.
11:24:14 We are human beings, too.
11:24:16 Ware not dogs.
11:24:17 We are no Lemmings.
11:24:19 We deserve just as much rights, justice and humanity as
11:24:25 anyone else in this world.
11:24:27 And I know some of you already know that.
11:24:30 And I just wanted to drive the point home that we are
11:24:34 here, we are listening, and we are very pretty cam
11:24:42 -- political people.
11:24:44 I hear a lot of stuff about Christianity here.
11:24:48 And those cool, you know.
11:24:51 But my favorite part of the Bible is actually Matthew
11:24:54 (Bell sounds).
11:24:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:24:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
11:25:06 Last speaker.
11:25:06 >> Good morning.
11:25:12 My name is Sheila Kelly, reside at 910 West Virginia
11:25:20 And one of the last speakers, I feel emotional, because
11:25:26 what I'm hearing is that a group of people that are
11:25:33 asking to be included to this community might
11:25:41 eventually be considered by -- I respectfully
11:25:47 appreciate my Christian brothers and sisters -- to be
11:25:51 considered pedophiles, which would be sexual offenders,
11:25:56 who would be registered.
11:26:01 I know that's a large leap.
11:26:02 But it bothers me to think that.
11:26:07 I have lived in this city almost 34 years.
11:26:10 My education and my professional working life as a
11:26:16 research sociologist at the university level.
11:26:22 For about 31 years.
11:26:26 The one thing I learned in studying children and
11:26:29 families, and a also aging and mental health, is that
11:26:34 the important thing, or two important things, are
11:26:40 cultural group identities, and also our need to belong
11:26:48 to the community.
11:26:52 I also am a Christian, and a Buddhist, and my Christian
11:27:00 core value has always been to love one another.
11:27:08 I think that maybe some of the confusion that we all
11:27:12 have has to do with pressure, the pressure to
11:27:16 understand and the pressure to accept.
11:27:20 And that comes with time.
11:27:25 I also heard a reference to liberty and justice for
11:27:28 all, which is the end of our pledge of allegiance.
11:27:33 And I thoroughly believe in that.
11:27:35 (Bell sounds).
11:27:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
11:27:42 Thank you.
11:27:43 Thank you.
11:27:45 Motion to close the public hearing, please.
11:27:47 >> So moved.
11:27:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
11:27:48 >> Motion and second that we close the public hearing.
11:27:51 All in favor?
11:27:53 Let me just say to all of you that are here, to all of
11:27:57 the public speakers, first of all, let me commend you
11:28:00 and thank you for exercising your right to come and be
11:28:06 That's the thing I like about this country is that we
11:28:09 have an opportunity to be heard.
11:28:10 Secondly, I want to thank you, commend you for your
11:28:13 conduct and the way you have handled yourselves in
11:28:17 these chambers, and I want to applaud you and thank you
11:28:19 for that.
11:28:21 While we may be on various ends of the spectrum, yet at
11:28:26 the same time I believe that we have been very cordial
11:28:29 in these chambers.
11:28:30 I want to thank you for that.
11:28:31 And with that being said, Mr. Fletcher now has been
11:28:35 engaged, with the ordinance and some amendments.
11:28:43 However, I will let council talk now.
11:28:45 They want to speak relative to the ordinance at this
11:28:48 And then I will say my -- save my comments for last.
11:28:51 >>MARY MULHERN: I would just like to remind everyone
11:29:00 that we are not in church, that this is your Tampa City
11:29:04 Council, and we are legislators, at the local level.
11:29:11 I believe our laws are probably based on morality
11:29:19 that's ages old, and probably is Judeo Christian, but
11:29:24 when I look at my responsibility here, I think it does,
11:29:29 as one of the speakers just said, have to do with
11:29:32 liberty and justice for all.
11:29:34 And I am reminded of even before our Constitution, our
11:29:41 Declaration of Independence begins with the fact that
11:29:47 we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men
11:29:50 are created equal, that they are endowed by their
11:29:55 creator with certain inalienable rights, that among
11:29:58 these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
11:30:03 I think that's what we have to think about.
11:30:04 Back then when they said "men "ow "I'm assuming they
11:30:07 meant "humans."
11:30:09 They were talking about Americans.
11:30:11 They weren't talking about just people born as men.
11:30:14 So I think that everything and anything that we need to
11:30:19 do to protect individual freedom and privacy, by the
11:30:25 way, is appropriate.
11:30:29 And that's why I support this ordinance.
11:30:31 And don't see any need for an amendment to it, although
11:30:36 I am very happy to listen to any recommendations.
11:30:39 And I would also like to point out that a lot of the
11:30:42 fears that were expressed today are fears of crime.
11:30:48 And we have an excellent police force here in Tampa.
11:30:52 And I think that if sexual predators -- and a lot of
11:30:58 these things are people are afraid of regardless of the
11:31:01 gender, or gender identity of the person who is
11:31:06 perpetrating them, I think that that's what the law is
11:31:09 here for, too, to protect us against crime.
11:31:12 So I just wanted to say that.
11:31:15 And I just wanted to say that we do have a separation
11:31:21 of church and state.
11:31:22 And we heard about one religion today, and one mention
11:31:27 of one other religion, and we respect, and we are
11:31:32 expected to respect the freedom of everyone in their
11:31:35 expression of religion, and we do that, and we did that
11:31:38 But our responsibility is not to be preachers, although
11:31:43 we do have a preacher.
11:31:45 But his had responsibility here today also is to be a
11:31:51 lawmaker, and consider our Constitution and our
11:31:55 responsibility as local legislators.
11:31:57 So I do support this as I did on the first reading.
11:32:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anybody else?
11:32:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Curious to hear your discussion,
11:32:09 Mr. Chairman.
11:32:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just say before I bring Mr.
11:32:13 Fletcher, forward, our city attorney, let me say today
11:32:17 that this has been a very, very difficult issue for me,
11:32:20 given my background as a positive tore and as a clergy.
11:32:27 I have not taken this issue very lightly over the past
11:32:30 several weeks when the civil rights council approached
11:32:35 me in my office, I began then doing some research and
11:32:38 talking with some of my colleagues in ministry not only
11:32:40 here in this state but outside of the state.
11:32:47 I'm the first to confess that I did not sleep well last
11:32:50 I spent most of my time as a Christian praying and
11:32:55 seeking really wisdom and direction on this particular
11:32:59 Now some of you can understand that.
11:33:02 I am going to say some things for both sides.
11:33:05 But that's not the issue for me.
11:33:11 I have a record as a county commissioner for ten years.
11:33:16 I have never condoned or voted for issues relative to
11:33:20 gay issues, homosexual issues, of that nature.
11:33:24 Never have.
11:33:25 And I don't intend to, because of my own personal
11:33:33 I do not change what I believe for a vote.
11:33:38 That's not where I am.
11:33:40 I'm sorry for those who thought they can intimidate me
11:33:44 by saying we have an election coming up and they are
11:33:47 going to be voting.
11:33:48 The only vote I'm concerned about is God's vote.
11:33:51 So I'm not intimidated by that.
11:33:54 At the end of the day what's important for me is my
11:33:57 convictions, and my belief, and that when I am no
11:34:02 longer a City Council person or elected official, live
11:34:08 with me and the decisions I made.
11:34:11 That's the most important issue for me.
11:34:14 Can I live with Tom Scott when this is all over?
11:34:24 Today it is a very difficult one.
11:34:26 Let me say for the record I have never condoned, nor do
11:34:31 I agree with those who decide to live their life any
11:34:37 other way than a man or a female.
11:34:39 That's holy up to them.
11:34:42 But then that's the issue of this country, of choice.
11:34:46 Whether we want to admit that or not.
11:34:48 That's what religious freedom or that's what this
11:34:50 country is all about, democracy is all about.
11:34:53 It's a freedom.
11:34:55 To not be discriminated against.
11:34:57 Freedom to be able to have a good house, a good home,
11:35:01 to live in a good community.
11:35:02 That's what this country is about.
11:35:08 Freedom to be able to live comfortably and not be
11:35:15 called derogatory names.
11:35:19 On the other hand, I thought about it.
11:35:24 I took off my political hat and thought about my
11:35:27 religious role as a pastor.
11:35:31 Every Sunday I preach to several hundred people and I
11:35:33 say to them, God loves you no matter what you have
11:35:40 He's standing with open arms to forgive you and to
11:35:43 accept you as who you are.
11:35:50 God's love is for every person.
11:35:53 I believe that.
11:35:55 I asked the question, what would Jesus do if he was
11:35:59 I'm reminded -- and I think I'm kind of preaching here.
11:36:04 I'm reminded of a story when the Pharisees went out and
11:36:08 they wanted to trap Jesus and they said we have a woman
11:36:10 caught in the very act of adultery, what do you say?
11:36:13 This is what the law says.
11:36:15 And he Nevada stood a word.
11:36:19 He stooped down and started writing in the ground.
11:36:21 And then he got up and said, you without sin cast the
11:36:25 first stone.
11:36:25 I believe that love covers multitudes of fault.
11:36:33 I believe perfect love casts out fear.
11:36:36 I believe that Jesus loves every person in this room
11:36:42 within the sound of my voice.
11:36:43 I believe that.
11:36:47 For a person to have a sex change, I wish all of my
11:36:50 religious colleagues were here, if a person has a sex
11:36:53 change, and they come join your church, will you accept
11:36:59 Or will you turn them away?
11:37:02 I could find no Biblical record where Jesus turned
11:37:05 anybody away.
11:37:06 Or would you require them to convert back to their
11:37:09 original gender?
11:37:12 Those are the kind of questions that we have to raise
11:37:15 and ask ourselves from the religious community.
11:37:21 This ordinance, as I understand it -- and Mr. Fletcher
11:37:24 is going to come now -- this ordinance does not address
11:37:28 This ordinance does not allow for men to be able to go
11:37:32 into women's restrooms, as I understand it.
11:37:36 This ordinance is about the abuse and molestation of
11:37:42 children. (sic)
11:37:42 This ordinance is not about all those issues.
11:37:49 It is my understanding that this ordinance is about
11:37:52 those who have made a decision to change their gender
11:37:56 and that they should not be discriminated against.
11:38:00 That is my understanding of this ordinance.
11:38:05 Mr. Fletcher, if you can come now and have us work
11:38:08 through some of this.
11:38:09 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Chip Fletcher, city attorney.
11:38:13 As I mentioned when this was presented, one of the
11:38:17 things that our office did was will around the state in
11:38:21 various different ways of writing language on this
11:38:23 issue, and we selected language that was used in a
11:38:26 variety of places, the meeting at Gulfport, Miami
11:38:30 beach, a whole list of other cities.
11:38:33 What was brought -- and I will tell you that for my
11:38:38 view, what this focuses on is gender identity, which is
11:38:42 the individual self-perceived gender.
11:38:47 Now, admittedly the language that we selected with the
11:38:51 human rights board did not focus in on that precise
11:38:54 issue, used the term gender identity.
11:38:58 There are other jurisdictions that have language that
11:39:02 approaches that issue more directly.
11:39:05 And one of those is city of Gainesville.
11:39:08 And I think you heard that mentioned here today.
11:39:10 >> I have been engaged in conversation about it.
11:39:13 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: That's right.
11:39:15 While they have some language in their definition,
11:39:17 which you might have you as broader than ours, they do
11:39:21 have a phrase that I think is helpful in this context
11:39:24 which says the inner sense of being a specific gender,
11:39:30 meaning the individual's inner sense of what they
11:39:32 believe their gender is.
11:39:34 And to address this issue and focus more in on this
11:39:38 issue, what I would suggest, if it's council's desire,
11:39:42 that that phrase could be added to our draft so that it
11:39:46 would read: Gender identity or expression means the
11:39:51 inner sense of being a specific gender, gender
11:39:55 identity, appearance, expression, and behavior as an
11:39:57 individual regardless of the individual's assigned sex
11:40:01 at birth.
11:40:02 I believe it gets to the same place, but it does speak
11:40:05 more directly to the individual's mental impression
11:40:09 which I think is the key issue in this context, when
11:40:11 you are trying to address this particular issue.
11:40:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And that's the conversation Mr.
11:40:18 Fletcher -- if we can make that change, then I can
11:40:20 support that.
11:40:23 Again, I only have one vote.
11:40:25 And my vote again is today to make sure that we are
11:40:28 clear, there's no ambiguity, that it's about
11:40:31 discrimination, that every person has the right to be
11:40:35 able to buy a home, in the community, they have a right
11:40:39 to be able to go into a restaurant without being
11:40:44 discriminated against.
11:40:45 I close and I recognize Mr. Miranda, and Mr.
11:40:49 I close by saying that to all of us today, I am a
11:40:54 Christian, I'm a pastor, I'm a disciple of the man whom
11:41:00 they call a winebibber, a friend to sinners, yet he was
11:41:07 a man that loved everybody.
11:41:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
11:41:13 I never followed a preacher in such a long sermon as
11:41:18 Here I am.
11:41:20 Mr. Fletcher, don't sit down, please.
11:41:22 The last time you were here and I voted for these
11:41:24 ordinances the first reading, I asked several
11:41:27 Which were not only of these rights that we are talking
11:41:29 about, cross gender, but what about the rest of the
11:41:33 rights of those in the workplace and so forth and so
11:41:35 on, what rights do they have?
11:41:38 I specifically mentioned that I was not going to sit
11:41:42 through an individual named Charlie, that's my own name
11:41:44 so I don't discriminate against anyone else, and the
11:41:47 next day be Charlene.
11:41:49 I'm discriminating against Charlene because I brought
11:41:52 up a name that's not mine.
11:41:53 And the article written I believe was in the "The Tampa
11:41:56 You said that was not possible under the ordinance.
11:41:59 However, right after that paragraph came Mr. Dinkins,
11:42:08 which --
11:42:11 Sir, you have to come to the mike, speak on the record.
11:42:14 Can't speak from the audience.
11:42:14 >> Yes, sir, I did make that statement but he would
11:42:16 didn't have much follow through on that about what that
11:42:18 actually meant.
11:42:19 If I have an opportunity to say more or really --
11:42:22 >> I'm asking you that question.
11:42:23 I believe you have the right to answer.
11:42:24 >> I'm not an attorney.
11:42:26 I am the chairman of the City of Tampa human rights
11:42:28 board, and I can only speak from my own feelings, and
11:42:31 that would be that a workplace would have the right to
11:42:34 establish a dress code.
11:42:36 If I have to wear a suit to my work, an employer could
11:42:40 establish a dress code --
11:42:42 >> That's not the question.
11:42:44 You and I know it.
11:42:45 >> No, it is.
11:42:46 You are asking if someone could be disruptive in a
11:42:49 workplace by coming back and forth in different
11:42:52 First of all, personally, I wouldn't feel that would be
11:42:55 the situation we are dealing with because gender
11:42:58 identity disorder doesn't rock back and forth from day
11:43:02 to day.
11:43:03 And we have had many people from the community here to
11:43:06 speak to them.
11:43:07 I'm so glad they did because last time we didn't have
11:43:09 anyone from that community talk to us, and you have
11:43:12 seen that they are nice folks, and they are in
11:43:14 different stages of their lives, but it's not something
11:43:19 that flips back and forth from Friday to Monday to
11:43:21 Tuesday or Wednesday.
11:43:22 So I feel -- the point I understood you to make last
11:43:29 time was did they have to have sexual reassignment
11:43:32 surgery in order to be protected?
11:43:34 That's what I thought you meant.
11:43:35 And I don't agree.
11:43:36 >> Well, that was half and half was not thoroughly
11:43:42 The statement was that I made was that, if I recall,
11:43:46 that I didn't want disruption in the workplace of
11:43:49 somebody being something today and being something else
11:43:52 another day.
11:43:53 And in the paper, you were quoted, yes, they could do
11:43:58 Now, whether that's.
11:43:59 PRIOR SPEAKER: Wrong, I don't know.
11:44:02 Let me ask another question.
11:44:05 How many documented complaints have you had?
11:44:08 >>> As I mentioned to you at our last meeting I believe
11:44:11 there were either 13 or 16 complaints have been filed
11:44:14 with the City of Tampa human rights office in the past
11:44:18 years based upon gender identity and expression, they
11:44:21 could not be investigated or accepted because it was
11:44:23 not a protected category.
11:44:26 But 16, I believe.
11:44:27 It could have been 13 or perhaps 16.
11:44:30 And that came from the City of Tampa.
11:44:33 If I could make one more comment, councilman Miranda.
11:44:36 You mention board of director how I was quoted in the
11:44:38 Now as someone that gets quoted in the press, you don't
11:44:41 get an opportunity to edit your comments.
11:44:44 I was faced with six cameras and five reporters last
11:44:47 I don't normally do that.
11:44:49 And I didn't get a chance to edit.
11:44:50 They asked me soundbites, and I didn't get a chance to
11:44:53 talk and further explain my position.
11:44:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Fletcher, in the ordinance that
11:45:02 you made reference to changes, how can we draft that
11:45:08 ordinance, or what I just said doesn't happen in the
11:45:14 I do not want disruption in the workplace.
11:45:16 It's not about gay, lesbian, transgender, white, black,
11:45:22 Cuban, African-American, bald, long hair, whatever.
11:45:26 How do you put that in so that it does not happen?
11:45:34 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: One, first I'll say that the
11:45:37 transition period as I understand it, where someone is
11:45:41 on one gender on one day and then comes to work another
11:45:45 day as another -- presenting as another gender, it's my
11:45:51 understanding of what the intent of this is, is to
11:45:54 protect that transition.
11:45:56 So whether that's disruptive in the workplace or not,
11:46:01 that's what the intent is to protect that transition.
11:46:05 What I believe I spoke to last time was the idea that
11:46:10 someone could show up one day present as one gender,
11:46:15 another day as another gender, and pick and choose as
11:46:18 they go, what the intent of this ordinance is -- and I
11:46:22 think what Chairman Scott and I discussed makes it
11:46:25 clear -- is it focuses on that person's individual
11:46:28 identity, and in order to take advantage of this
11:46:31 ordinance, they would have to demonstrate to the human
11:46:33 rights board the fact finder on this issue, and city
11:46:38 staff will do investigations that they do have in fact
11:46:42 that mental impression, that mental condition, that
11:46:45 they are the opposite sex.
11:46:48 So it would have to be -- they are the other gender.
11:46:53 So I can't tell you that there would not be a
11:46:55 disruption in the workplace when that transition
11:47:00 >> Who makes that determination?
11:47:02 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Under this ordinance, it's the
11:47:04 human rights board.
11:47:04 >> And how are they qualified to make that
11:47:08 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: They are qualified just as any
11:47:10 other citizen board appointed by the mayor and the
11:47:19 That's the structure that has been in place at the
11:47:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
11:47:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I appreciate you quoting the
11:47:35 Declaration of Independence, Mary.
11:47:37 Of course we operate under the Constitution.
11:47:40 Declaration of independence, life, liberty and the
11:47:42 pursuit of happiness.
11:47:44 Every single Thursday morning, we start off, put our
11:47:48 hands over our hearts, say the pledge of allegiance,
11:47:50 with liberty and justice for all.
11:47:59 Every time I close my eyes during the invocation, I
11:48:04 really think about those words, because that's what we
11:48:06 are here about.
11:48:10 We have been selected by the citizens to make very,
11:48:15 very tough decisions including this one.
11:48:18 But at the end of the Dave we have to fall back on
11:48:20 these core things that our country is founded upon,
11:48:27 liberty and justice for all.
11:48:29 Not for some.
11:48:32 Not for this side and not that side or that side and
11:48:35 not this side.
11:48:37 But for everybody.
11:48:41 I will never be able to speak as eloquently as our
11:48:44 chairman, because you did.
11:48:47 You spoke very eloquently.
11:48:53 In law we talk about red herrings, about things that
11:48:55 people bring into the courtroom that are not real
11:49:02 And I've heard many today.
11:49:03 I heard about terrorism.
11:49:05 I heard about dogs and failing economies, bathrooms,
11:49:14 perverts, those were all red herrings.
11:49:19 With all due respect to the people who say them, who
11:49:23 say them very honestly, and I know you feel this deep
11:49:26 in your heart.
11:49:27 And I respect that tremendously.
11:49:29 No matter where you live in the city or the county.
11:49:34 I do respect it.
11:49:35 But at the same time that's not the issue.
11:49:36 That's not why we are here.
11:49:39 We have a human rights ordinance on our books today,
11:49:44 and it's been in place, I think, for going on 20 years.
11:49:50 At one point in time, I went to the Florida Supreme
11:49:52 Court to help defend that ordinance.
11:49:55 And I was honored to do so.
11:49:58 All we are doing today, hopefully, is continuing this
11:50:03 7-0 vote, is adding one more class of persons to the
11:50:10 protections that we already thrive under, under that
11:50:14 human rights ordinance.
11:50:16 There is one small group that has been identified as
11:50:21 falling through the cracks and not being protected.
11:50:25 Five or six of those folks who have fallen through the
11:50:28 cracks stood up to that microphone today with
11:50:33 tremendous courage, with cameras on them, with the
11:50:36 entire community looking at them and scratching their
11:50:38 head saying, what are they?
11:50:40 I'm confused, this and that.
11:50:42 You know what?
11:50:43 I don't care what they are.
11:50:45 Because what they really are is they are human beings
11:50:49 with the right to liberty and justice for all.
11:50:55 Somebody alluded to -- and I can't remember who it
11:50:57 was -- they didn't use the word the Holocaust but they
11:51:03 alluded to that.
11:51:04 As one of the greatest obviously human rights
11:51:09 abhorrations, tragedies, terrific things in recent
11:51:17 Other people spoke to the civil rights movement.
11:51:22 The only difference here is just the magnitude.
11:51:27 In World War II, in the Holocaust, they were talking
11:51:30 about six million people, and the civil rights movement
11:51:33 it was talking about millions of Americans, okay.
11:51:37 But at the end of the day of the doesn't talk about
11:51:39 whether we talk about millions or the five or six
11:51:41 people who have the courage to stand up at the
11:51:44 microphone today, it's our job to protect them.
11:51:48 Mr. Chairman, with your indulgence I would like to move
11:51:50 the ordinance with the amendment that you suggested
11:51:52 including the Gainesville provision that Mr. Fletcher
11:51:57 And I don't know if we can do that at first reading
11:52:00 since it's just a minor clarification, or if -- I mean
11:52:04 for second reading, or if we can move forward with
11:52:08 second reading.
11:52:09 >> Mr. Chairman, I did just confer with Mr. Shelby, and
11:52:14 since the title would not change, it's just a few-word
11:52:19 change within that definition, we believe that can
11:52:21 county go forward on second reading.
11:52:23 And what I handed Mr. Shelby is a draft that assistant
11:52:28 city attorney McKinney did with the change as I
11:52:32 described it.
11:52:37 With that one clause.
11:52:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll read the title.
11:52:41 >> And if you can keep it intact and give it to the
11:52:46 >> I'll read it with the clause just for clarification.
11:52:49 The clause that we have added, Mr. Chairman, thank you
11:52:51 for working on that.
11:52:53 It's under definitions.
11:52:55 Gender identity or expression means the inner sense of
11:52:58 being a specific gender, gender related identity,
11:53:01 appearance, expression, and behavior of an individual,
11:53:05 regardless of the individual's assigned sex at birth.
11:53:09 And that's in section 1.
11:53:11 And the entire ordinance title reads as follows.
11:53:15 I'll move this on second reading.
11:53:17 An ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida amending
11:53:18 chapter 12 of the City of Tampa code amending section
11:53:21 12-2 by adding a new definition for gender identity or
11:53:24 expression, amending section 12-16 (2).
11:53:28 Purpose: M.D. amending section 12-26, unlawful
11:53:32 employment practices; amending section 12-36,
11:53:36 exemptions; amending section 12-61 (2) purpose;
11:53:42 amending section 12-64, unlawful practices; amend
11:53:46 section 12-66 (C) exemptions; amending 12-71 (2)
11:53:53 purpose; amend section 12-81, sale or rental; amending
11:53:58 section 12-83, residential real estate-related
11:54:01 transactions; amending section 12-84, brokerage
11:54:05 services; amending section 12-101 (E) housing; amending
11:54:12 section 12-101 (G) housing by adding gender identity or
11:54:16 expression of a protected class to these sections;
11:54:19 providing for severability, providing for repeal of all
11:54:22 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
11:54:30 Move that for second reading.
11:54:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Mulhern.
11:54:37 Again my vote is one that addresses the issue of
11:54:41 And for the record, the because of my position as a
11:54:47 pastor I want to the be understood that my vote is one
11:54:50 of discrimination, that every citizen, every citizen
11:54:54 has a right to be able to live in decent houses, to be
11:55:00 able to go into restaurants without discrimination.
11:55:06 I also want to say today, at the end of the day, what's
11:55:14 important is this -- is that every citizen is protected
11:55:23 under the law, and the Constitution.
11:55:28 An oath that all of us here took to uphold.
11:55:32 At the end of the day, for religious perspective, it is
11:55:39 said to every person that God loves you.
11:55:41 Record your vote.
11:55:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Excuse me, I hit the wrong button.
11:55:50 They were all blinking.
11:55:52 Want to reset?
11:56:18 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being
11:56:21 Miranda being -- voting no.
11:56:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Still, please.
11:56:32 We are in session.
11:56:34 Council, there's one other item we have set for 11:00.
11:56:39 I asked to come back on the 3rd.
11:56:41 Can I get a motion to add to the agenda on the 3rd?
11:56:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Time certain, 11:00?
11:56:47 >> Yes, time certain on the 3rd.
11:56:49 Then also that resolution as well.
11:56:51 And then there's one last thing.
11:56:53 Can we take it up after lunch, you think, on the
11:56:57 With that being said we stand in recess until 1:30.
11:57:00 Thank you.
11:57:01 (Meeting recessed.)
01:11:42 Tampa City Council
01:31:18 1:30 p.m. session
01:38:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.
01:38:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
01:38:35 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
01:38:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
01:38:41 Okay, Mr. Fletcher.
01:38:42 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.
01:38:45 Over lunch, just to inform council, it was brought to
01:38:50 my attention by council for the PBA that they did not
01:38:55 have adequate tame to review the procedure for the
01:38:58 impasse hearing.
01:38:59 Apparently it was faxed to them yesterday afternoon at
01:39:01 some point.
01:39:02 Although I had transmitted to the council some time
01:39:05 previously, and while it is council's decision to have
01:39:09 council set that procedure, I thought that was
01:39:12 appropriate for you all to know.
01:39:16 Now we are not directly in my opinion limiting their
01:39:18 rights in a significant way so I feel no need for
01:39:21 council to take different action but I thought council
01:39:23 should be aware of that communication.
01:39:28 The hearing was set for more than two weeks away so
01:39:31 they have plenty of time to abide by that procedure.
01:39:35 But I wanted to bring that to you all's attention.
01:39:37 >> Did they suggest another date?
01:39:41 >> Not that I'm aware of.
01:39:45 What was communicated to my, on the procedure, I don't
01:39:47 know if they were communicated -- I don't know if they
01:39:50 are okay with this date or not.
01:39:54 I don't know if they were consulted on this date
01:39:57 either, quite frankly.
01:39:59 I have not seen the memo from Kimberly that's
01:40:02 referenced in the agenda.
01:40:04 It was -- this item was on the agenda and was
01:40:08 So it was made part of the agenda.
01:40:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Actually the agenda was sent through
01:40:16 the e-mail, not necessarily posted.
01:40:19 Maybe addendum.
01:40:19 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: But I can't represent to you that
01:40:25 they were consulted about that date. I can represent
01:40:28 that they were concerned about the time they had to
01:40:29 review the procedure.
01:40:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me understand something.
01:40:38 Council can get something within 48 hours of figuring
01:40:40 what's going on and the rest of them can't?
01:40:43 Is that what we are saying?
01:40:44 I'm not for or against.
01:40:46 I'm just saying is that what I'm hearing?
01:40:52 Two weeks is not sufficient time of? I don't know,
01:40:54 what do they need?
01:40:56 I'm willing to go whatever they need.
01:40:58 I want clarity and understanding on both sides, that's
01:41:01 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I may, Mr. Chairman.
01:41:04 What I'm representing to you all as the attorney for
01:41:06 the union indicated they did not feel they had enough
01:41:09 time to review the procedure.
01:41:11 I'm not sure when the initial was copied down to them
01:41:15 but the memo that I sent to you yesterday was faxed
01:41:18 late in the afternoon, and that was not sufficient in
01:41:20 their view, and that's what I'm communicating to you
01:41:25 I cannot -- I do not actively engage with the city's
01:41:28 bargaining unit, bargaining advocates, bargaining
01:41:36 agents or the union's bargaining agents.
01:41:38 I can't speak to how they interacted and communicated
01:41:41 about setting this date.
01:41:42 I can speak to you on the procedure.
01:41:44 >>MARY MULHERN: We are being asked to settle an
01:41:50 impasse between two parties.
01:41:53 I would like at least the two parties to agree on the
01:41:55 date, and I would make a motion that we -- we already
01:42:06 agreed to have that date, didn't we?
01:42:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can, council.
01:42:10 If you will indulge me, way would like to do -- and I
01:42:13 know Mr. Fletcher because he's not engaged in the
01:42:15 process, he's a neutral in that sense, this is word
01:42:21 from the chief of staff's office, and contacted each of
01:42:24 I would assume -- and this is an assumption.
01:42:27 I can't make it but I would like to confirm it, that
01:42:29 that date was also cleared as it was with each of you,
01:42:31 also with the bargaining unit of the PBA.
01:42:34 With your indulgence, before you take any other action,
01:42:37 I would like to contact Debby Ratolla, so at least a
01:42:43 date can be settled because there will be no other
01:42:45 meeting of City Council between now and December
01:42:48 So it has to be resolved today.
01:42:51 With regard to the procedures, council always has the
01:42:54 ability on the day of the impasse hearing to adjust and
01:42:59 amend its procedures by motion and vote with without
01:43:02 objection of the parties.
01:43:03 So that can be dealt with.
01:43:05 So rather than make an issue out of it, while we are
01:43:08 continuing the hearings today, I'll just confirm that
01:43:11 that in fact is an acceptable date, and then we can
01:43:14 move on from there.
01:43:15 >> That's fine.
01:43:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So at the end of the day we are
01:43:22 playing judge in this one.
01:43:24 We can set it when we feel it's appropriate to set it.
01:43:26 >> The hearing?
01:43:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No.
01:43:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, in the sense that there's some
01:43:32 sort of conflict with the bargaining units being able
01:43:34 to come together to make a presentation to council,
01:43:36 then you would want to have the parties here on the
01:43:40 date that you set the hearing.
01:43:42 >> Right.
01:43:44 But last time I was in court when the judge said this
01:43:46 is when the hearing is going to be, the parties get
01:43:49 So I don't understand what this is really about.
01:43:51 >> Basically, the only thing this was about ultimately
01:43:54 was the fact that Mr. Fletcher informed City Council
01:43:57 that it came to his attention that it wasn't until
01:43:59 yesterday that the PBA bargaining unit receive what
01:44:03 council's procedures would be, and that there may be
01:44:05 some questions between now and then which could be
01:44:09 That's the only thing.
01:44:09 So I am just going to double check.
01:44:11 >> To address councilman Dingfelder's comment, you all
01:44:16 have an obligation, as soon as you receive notice that
01:44:20 there is rejection of the special magistrate report to
01:44:22 set the special hearing forth with.
01:44:24 You all have done that.
01:44:25 I feel that you met your statutory obligation.
01:44:28 If there's a scheduling problem, we can work on that.
01:44:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Ill just double check as soon as we
01:44:34 clear the agenda.
01:44:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's fine.
01:44:36 We'll hold off on that.
01:44:38 No problem at all.
01:44:42 Let me clear up a few items.
01:44:44 One is item 49.
01:44:45 I think we need to remove that from the agenda.
01:44:47 The applicant has withdrawn that, as I understand.
01:44:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.
01:44:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
01:44:56 Second by councilman Caetano that item 49 be withdrawn.
01:44:59 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
01:45:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe item 54, is the
01:45:05 petitioner's representative here, to discuss item 54?
01:45:08 >> My understanding item 54, they are withdrawing that
01:45:11 Are they here?
01:45:12 Someone from staff?
01:45:13 Are you aware there's a letter, e-mail, fax, phone
01:45:18 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.
01:45:21 An e-mail was received by the petitioner's agent, and
01:45:25 they are requesting to withdraw the petition.
01:45:27 And that was done this morning.
01:45:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 54.
01:45:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: May we have a motion?
01:45:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to remove item 54.
01:45:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Caetano.
01:45:38 All in favor?
01:45:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And then we have item 57 and 58,
01:45:43 Mr. Chairman.
01:45:46 I . item 57 and 58 could not be heard.
01:45:49 Scheduled for when?
01:45:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With regard to item 578, I believe is
01:45:53 petitioner's representative here on item number 57?
01:45:57 I see none.
01:45:57 And I believe -- and if the clerk will confirm this,
01:46:01 this has already been previously reset to this date.
01:46:06 I don't know that for a fact.
01:46:09 I was informed by Mrs. Marshall of that, that it was
01:46:14 But I will confirm that.
01:46:15 That being the case, it would be pursuant to 27-373,
01:46:21 failure to perfect notice required for the reschedule
01:46:23 appeal hearing shall result in the appeal being denied.
01:46:28 If you can pass that and I'll confirm that and then we
01:46:32 will be able to move to that.
01:46:33 With regard to 58, did they pay the amendment fee on
01:46:37 You don't know that either.
01:46:39 That cannot be heard.
01:46:41 If that can be removed from the agenda it will be
01:46:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The motion to remove 58 from the
01:46:47 agenda for rescheduling.
01:46:48 >> Second.
01:46:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
01:46:50 All in favor of? Opposes?
01:46:52 Thank you.
01:46:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And I will check on 57.
01:46:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
01:46:59 That takes us to item 51.
01:47:03 Item 51.
01:47:04 If you are going to be speaking today before council,
01:47:06 will you stand and be sworn?
01:47:08 If you are going to be speaking, addressing council,
01:47:11 stand and be sworn.
01:47:12 (Oath administered by Clerk)
01:47:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to open?
01:47:25 Miranda so moved, all of the items on the rest of the
01:47:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by Councilwoman
01:47:32 All in favor?
01:47:34 Thank you.
01:47:34 Item 51.
01:47:35 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.
01:47:38 C 09-08 is a vacating petition by university of Tampa
01:47:43 and BSS properties to vacate a portion of north "A"
01:47:47 street and alley.
01:47:49 I have a map for the overhead.
01:48:03 The petitioner's property is shown in red, and the
01:48:07 street and alley to be vacated are shown in yellow on
01:48:09 the map.
01:48:11 They are requesting to vacate a portion of north "A"
01:48:13 street, lying between Boulevard and Brevard street and
01:48:18 alley as well, and this is north of Kennedy and north
01:48:23 Staff objects to the north "A" street portion being
01:48:27 vacated because of the brick street situation.
01:48:31 And staff has no objection to the alley.
01:48:33 And I do have photos.
01:48:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can I just interrupt for a minute?
01:48:45 I was speaking with the attorney this morning.
01:48:47 He said we can't take action on item 51 until we hear
01:48:50 item 52.
01:48:51 So maybe we should proceed with 52 since that seems to
01:48:54 be the issue.
01:48:55 >> They told me they wanted this presented first and
01:48:59 then could you go to 52, but whatever you want to do.
01:49:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I was told that we should take
01:49:05 up item 52 first.
01:49:07 At least Mr. Shelby told me that.
01:49:08 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
01:49:10 I think what the intent is that item 51 and 52 are tied
01:49:13 in the sense that you can vacate this property, but
01:49:19 since there's a brick street associated with it, so
01:49:24 before they can do anything with the property would
01:49:26 have to approve the relocation of the brick.
01:49:30 But what we have deeded is that while the resolution
01:49:33 under the brick street ordinance and disturbing the
01:49:36 brick street is in front of you today, we have been
01:49:38 requesting that you go ahead, if you want to approve
01:49:41 the vacation on first reading, that you continue the
01:49:43 brick street ordinance -- I'm sorry, the brick street
01:49:47 resolution on second reading.
01:49:49 So I'm not sure if the advice was to go ahead and put
01:49:53 them both together and then continue item 52 which is
01:49:57 the brick street issue, or to do something different.
01:50:01 But I wouldn't recommend that we actually approve the
01:50:04 resolution on the brick street until second reading of
01:50:07 the ordinance.
01:50:10 So I think at this point why don't we go ahead and move
01:50:14 forward with the vacation?
01:50:15 Let me double check with Mr. Shelby to find out the
01:50:18 procedure he would like to utilize.
01:50:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, my conversation with Mr. Shelby
01:50:22 just before we started, his recommendation was that
01:50:24 when take up item 52 first ---
01:50:28 >>JULIA COLE: And then continue it?
01:50:29 >> Well, take up 52 and we could not do anything with
01:50:32 it until both items, both items.
01:50:36 >>JULIA COLE: That's what I want to make sure with Mr.
01:50:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But he recommended we take up item 52
01:50:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, I apologize, council.
01:50:46 Item 52 is displacement of the brick streets.
01:50:49 51 is to vacate.
01:50:50 If you want could you hear them both together.
01:50:56 But my point was, to bring it to council's attention
01:50:59 that number 52 is a motion by resolution.
01:51:01 And my suggestion would be that that only requires one
01:51:04 vote, that rather than vote on that and pass that and
01:51:06 have the other one hanging out there, that you continue
01:51:10 number 52 to the date of the second reading.
01:51:12 That was really my concern.
01:51:13 >> Do you want me to continue?
01:51:18 >> Okay.
01:51:19 Fine, yes.
01:51:20 Go ahead.
01:51:20 >> The first shot is of the alley, and this is the
01:51:35 alley looking east on North Boulevard, the next shot is
01:51:38 north "A" street, the brick street.
01:51:40 This is looking west from Brevard Avenue.
01:51:43 And then another shot of the brick street from North
01:51:50 And these are shots of the petitioner's property.
01:51:52 This is north "A" street and Brevard Avenue.
01:51:57 This is the northwest corner of Brevard, north "A"
01:52:06 Northeast corner of "A" and North Boulevard.
01:52:10 This is the property, southeast corner of north "A" and
01:52:14 And this is the property lying south of the alley.
01:52:21 Property line south of the alley.
01:52:25 If this is approved on the north "A" street, the brick
01:52:29 portion, build -- urban design has asked that stay
01:52:36 intact and preserved over north "B" street so it would
01:52:39 still function as a street.
01:52:40 And we have done this previously in this same area.
01:52:43 I have a little graph.
01:52:47 In '99 we vacated north "B."
01:52:51 That was a brick street as well.
01:52:53 That's still in tact and has utility easements over it
01:52:57 so this would be a similar situation.
01:52:59 And then to release it, they would have to go through
01:53:04 release of easement.
01:53:05 >>MARY MULHERN: Can you explain to me what that would
01:53:08 mean if we vacated -- reserved the easement, does that
01:53:12 mean the street has to remain open, and intact?
01:53:18 >> Yes.
01:53:19 That's the point.
01:53:20 Urban design has requested that an agenda ordinance
01:53:22 that the street brick stay intact and stay functioning
01:53:27 as a street.
01:53:29 >>MARY MULHERN: So it has to remain open to the
01:53:32 public, and the bricks have to stay?
01:53:34 >> Yes.
01:53:35 I think there's a protection in the ordinance for the
01:53:40 If they are pulled up they have to return them to the
01:53:42 But at this point, the urban design people have
01:53:45 requested that the grid stay intact.
01:53:47 >> The grid stay intact but what about the bricks?
01:53:50 >> I think that's what they mean.
01:53:51 I think anything to do -- maybe could you explain it.
01:53:56 If they want to go through and release this and get rid
01:53:58 of that street, they would have to do a release of
01:54:01 easement which would go before transportation.
01:54:03 But I don't think that's their intent. John Grandoff
01:54:07 is here.
01:54:07 He is the petitioner's representative.
01:54:09 Maybe he could give more --
01:54:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I'm just wondering, define the
01:54:15 easement for me.
01:54:17 Maybe Julie can do that.
01:54:20 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
01:54:23 If this code is from right-of-way, which it is right
01:54:25 now and that's what they are requesting vacation from,
01:54:28 it changes.
01:54:30 The property rights to that portion of the property out
01:54:33 of the city to the private property owner.
01:54:35 However, if there is an easement retained over that
01:54:38 area, the City of Tampa would have the right to utilize
01:54:41 that easement, if it's a public transportation easement
01:54:44 that is retained, then the public would have the right
01:54:46 to go over that property.
01:54:49 If it is a utility easement we have the right to have
01:54:52 utility there.
01:54:53 So we still have whatever rights are retained within
01:54:55 the easement.
01:54:57 It's just the underlying property right then just goes
01:55:00 back to the adjoining property.
01:55:02 >> So that means that they could remove the brick,
01:55:06 because they own it?
01:55:08 >>JULIA COLE: Well, no, because you also have an
01:55:11 ordinance in your code that if there are bricks that
01:55:18 are located in a particular property, even public or
01:55:21 private, then you would have to go through the brick
01:55:23 street ordinance process in order to displace those
01:55:26 >> Which does allow -- we vote on that, that number
01:55:35 fifty --
01:55:37 >> That's correct.
01:55:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If you could have that put back up.
01:55:43 (off microphone)
01:55:46 What I'm looking at to the west, and north "A" to the
01:55:55 east, and then you have a cross section, that
01:55:59 cross-section street in red doesn't go through.
01:56:02 It just dead-ends into north "B."
01:56:07 You either go right or left, right?
01:56:09 Now let me ask you another question on the north "A"
01:56:12 That is not in yellow.
01:56:14 That would be the eastern part of it.
01:56:16 That dead-ends at the university?
01:56:18 Or does that go through?
01:56:19 >>> That was vacated years ago.
01:56:22 That does not go through.
01:56:23 I don't know if the brick street -- they may be using
01:56:28 the brick street on campus but it's not a
01:56:31 transportation easement, not a public street.
01:56:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I can hardly hear you.
01:56:35 >> This portion you are talking about here, that was
01:56:39 vacated years ago, and I'm sorry I don't know if it
01:56:43 functions as a street out there but it's not a public
01:56:46 easement for a street.
01:56:47 >> But it's still brick.
01:56:49 >> It may be.
01:56:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Because on the corner was the old
01:56:53 Valencia Gardens.
01:56:55 And then that little alley people used to take a
01:56:59 shortcut to make a right to the light at Kennedy.
01:57:02 So on the northern part of the property is a parking
01:57:08 garage, on north "A."
01:57:09 >> I think so.
01:57:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And that street runs along this.
01:57:17 Miranda and you have a street that runs -- what I'm
01:57:20 saying is if any citizen was to take north "A," and the
01:57:25 corner of North Boulevard, heading east, you couldn't
01:57:31 go too far.
01:57:32 >> No.
01:57:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's all.
01:57:35 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Address suite 3700 Bank of America
01:57:49 And I have the pleasure of representing university of
01:57:51 Tampa this afternoon.
01:57:52 I'm joined by Mr. Gorick, vice-president of
01:57:57 administration and finance.
01:57:58 Could you please raise your hand?
01:58:01 On the brick street issue through an ordinance, the
01:58:04 city controls bricks that are in public rights-of-way.
01:58:07 The bricks are going to remain.
01:58:09 The street grid is going to remain.
01:58:11 We aren't going to change the street grid.
01:58:13 And there are easements reserved for transportation,
01:58:15 water, other utilities, other private utilities, on all
01:58:19 of these roads and also on the alley.
01:58:21 So as a procedural matter you have to have a public
01:58:25 hearing to determine what will happen if the brick
01:58:27 streets -- if the bricks are going to be removed.
01:58:31 That's what the brick street ordinance contemplates.
01:58:35 We are not doing that.
01:58:36 In fact, the ordinance vacating the right-of-way also
01:58:39 has a section, section 5, which requires us to notify
01:58:44 the city if those bricks are going to be removed, and
01:58:47 the city has a right to come claim them.
01:58:50 The university is very proud of the brick streets that
01:58:53 surround the campus, and certainly they will be
01:58:57 I have nothing further to add or request other than you
01:59:00 approve the application.
01:59:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder, then councilman
01:59:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Get to that silly notion of the
01:59:08 public purpose.
01:59:09 But the university is not giving up the public
01:59:14 right-of-way, what is the public purpose?
01:59:16 What are you doing?
01:59:17 >> The city is being asked to vacate the right-of-way.
01:59:22 And it will then be owned by the university.
01:59:26 >> Why?
01:59:27 What's the reason?
01:59:29 >> The university owns both sides of the right-of-way
01:59:32 on the alley portion and also on north bay.
01:59:34 The dormitory and the garage on the north side of north
01:59:38 >> So --
01:59:40 >> They have acquired that.
01:59:42 To fulfill the campus purpose and to fulfill the
01:59:45 school's future plans, extending to Boulevard and
01:59:49 Kennedy, that it would be better to have control over
01:59:53 those rights-of-way, and to better plan for the school.
01:59:58 And the alley will be closed, but the right-of-way of
02:00:01 north "A" will remain open, and in fact the school
02:00:04 contemplates instituting two-way traffic again on north
02:00:07 "A" to help when students are arriving in the fall to
02:00:10 better manage moving into dormitories.
02:00:12 Right now it's one way west.
02:00:14 So the public purpose is achieved by doing that.
02:00:17 And you have a very good steward of the land who will
02:00:19 be managing both rights-of-way subject to public and
02:00:23 private easements.
02:00:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here's my only concern.
02:00:29 And Julia, it might be a concern aimed at you.
02:00:35 As regard to the easement, okay, it's the -- if the
02:00:39 city is granted under all of this, the city would
02:00:41 retain the transportation easement.
02:00:44 But then at some later date the school says, by the
02:00:46 way, we want to build a building on top of the street.
02:00:52 So then they would come to the city and ask us to give
02:00:55 up the easement.
02:00:58 And I sort of anticipate the long-term plan might be
02:01:01 something along these lines.
02:01:02 Otherwise, I wouldn't know why you would be going
02:01:04 through all this.
02:01:05 So if that's the case, Julia, would that come back to
02:01:11 council to give up the easement?
02:01:13 Or is that just an administrative decision?
02:01:17 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
02:01:18 That is an action of council.
02:01:19 It would have to come through a process which is
02:01:22 resolution to remove the easement approved by City
02:01:26 Council after recommendation from staff.
02:01:28 >> Because I thought I heard earlier, there was
02:01:32 something along the lines that they would come to the
02:01:35 administration or come to the city and ask for that.
02:01:38 >>JULIA COLE: They would come to the city and ask to
02:01:44 for the easement but that does take an action of
02:01:46 >> But not a public hearing?
02:01:47 >> Not a public hearing.
02:01:50 The consent agenda.
02:01:52 And it goes through a process under which -- it is
02:01:55 reviewed, for example, by our transportation staff,
02:01:59 whether or not there's still a need for easement and
02:02:01 also some of the other utilities and TECO, et cetera,
02:02:05 utilities in that area, which have the request to
02:02:09 remove the easement.
02:02:10 This particular ordinance holds a variety of different
02:02:14 easements, utility, TECO, Verizon, also a public
02:02:19 transportation easement, but that can be removed.
02:02:26 >> I guess I have a little bit of concern is it
02:02:37 possible we could modify that to require that it be a
02:02:39 public hearing at some future date, you know, down the
02:02:44 road instead of just being a consent agenda?
02:02:47 Because if it's on the consent agenda, nobody might
02:02:50 have even realized that it's there or anything like
02:02:53 But at least if it's public hearing, it's public
02:02:56 hearing just like today.
02:02:58 So I don't know that there be a problem with that.
02:03:00 But anyway, we can think about it whale we are having
02:03:03 this discussion.
02:03:03 >>MARY MULHERN: John, I don't know if you were here,
02:03:09 but item 52 we discussed already, which is asking to
02:03:16 displace the brick street.
02:03:21 The right-of-way.
02:03:22 Is that the one on 52?
02:03:25 No, we are doing 51, right?
02:03:27 >> That's right.
02:03:27 >>MARY MULHERN: On 51 -- well, you should look at it.
02:03:33 On 51, the background in the staff report -- I didn't
02:03:39 mean it to sound like that.
02:03:42 The University of Tampa, Inc., owns property on both
02:03:45 sides of north A street and the alley and desires to
02:03:49 consolidate the property for development.
02:03:53 BSS properties LLC owns property on both sides and
02:03:57 wants to consolidate as well.
02:03:58 I think it's clear, and it sounds to me, an it seems
02:04:03 logical to me that the only way that you would need to
02:04:06 vacate a public street would be to develop it.
02:04:11 And I guess that's the same question councilman
02:04:14 Dingfelder asked.
02:04:15 >>> Or control it.
02:04:18 Not necessarily build on it but control it.
02:04:19 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
02:04:22 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: All of the utilities that are in the
02:04:25 ground today will remain in the ground today.
02:04:27 They are protected by the easement reserved in the
02:04:34 The transportation that goes on north "A," for
02:04:40 instance, will still continue today, one-way west, of
02:04:43 It gives the school better way to manage the traffic on
02:04:46 the campus, and to control and secure the campus
02:04:50 >>MARY MULHERN: I have another concern, and I know we
02:04:56 are not voting on the bricks right now, but this
02:04:58 becomes possible if we -- I guess it's a question, if
02:05:03 it becomes possible if we vacate the street, if they
02:05:07 can then pave over the brick.
02:05:09 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: That's taken care of.
02:05:12 Let me read the ordinance to you.
02:05:13 Section 5 of the ordinance on page 4, it says that if
02:05:16 any of the rights-of-way hereby consist of vitrified
02:05:20 brick or granite curbing which you have, that such
02:05:23 vitrified brick roads and granite curb will remain
02:05:28 unaltered unless removal or replace.
02:05:31 Of the brick roads and granite are set forth by the
02:05:36 City of Tampa transportation manual as may be amended
02:05:40 from time to time for public rights-of-way.
02:05:41 If any of the vitrified brick and granite are removed
02:05:45 for the vacating of the right-of-way and cause to be
02:05:47 delivered all vitrified bricks and granite to the City
02:05:52 of Tampa department of public works.
02:05:55 >>MARY MULHERN: As I understand that, Julia, can this
02:05:57 then be decided administratively that they can remove
02:06:01 the bricks, but have to return them to the city?
02:06:04 Or does that come back to council?
02:06:06 >>JULIA COLE: This language that's in the ordinance
02:06:14 does seem to provide that not withstanding the
02:06:18 resolution you have in front of you, which I think does
02:06:21 change things, this would be something going through
02:06:25 this brick street ordinance process would be required
02:06:28 if in the future they wanted to remove the bricks.
02:06:31 The thing is what's coming after it is the resolution
02:06:35 relating to the brick street ordinance, that we would
02:06:38 be answering this question as part of this process.
02:06:42 Because what is in front of you, the resolution is so
02:06:45 they have the authority to remove the brick streets.
02:06:47 >> That was my question.
02:06:49 So if we vacate, then they can't remove the bricks.
02:06:53 >> If you approve the resolution granting them the
02:06:57 right to remove the brick, then they could remove the
02:07:00 >> And they have asked for that resolution, and it's
02:07:04 the next thing on our agenda.
02:07:06 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: The last section in section 5 says
02:07:10 pursuant to ordinance 193 which is your brick street
02:07:13 orthopedics, displacement of a brick street is subject
02:07:15 to council approval after a public hearing to displace
02:07:18 the brick street.
02:07:19 Now this is all academic because we are going to take
02:07:22 up item number 52, and what I am going to tell you on
02:07:25 item number 52 we are not going to remove the bricks.
02:07:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, that was the other question that
02:07:30 I don't think was answered because this is what's
02:07:32 happened in Ybor City, and quite an upcry recently, was
02:07:38 that the bricks weren't removed, but they were paved
02:07:41 And once they are paved over, there's no protection.
02:07:45 I mean, they are paved over and that's it.
02:07:47 The city has no intention of restoring the street.
02:07:52 And if it were vacated, the owner wouldn't have any
02:07:58 >> This ordinance, I can't say about the other
02:08:04 Two things can happen to the brick.
02:08:06 One, this council can approve, and that's the next item
02:08:08 in front of you, the ability to alter or remove the
02:08:12 The second thing is after that, say that was approved,
02:08:19 the University of Tampa would then be required not to
02:08:22 just pave oaf the brick, they would actually have to
02:08:24 pull it up, palletize it and give it back to the city.
02:08:32 The way this ordinance is drafted in front of you right
02:08:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
02:08:39 I just want to give praise to the university of Tampa.
02:08:43 They have come for us many times and they have always
02:08:47 said what their intentions, and did what their
02:08:51 intention was.
02:08:52 For instance, many years ago, I think some of us were
02:08:55 on council when they had their first expansion, and
02:08:58 there was a big oak tree.
02:09:02 And they moved that oak tree, an expense of over
02:09:05 200,000, two oak trees.
02:09:08 But I remember that.
02:09:14 It's always stayed in my mind.
02:09:16 This university has come through and always provided
02:09:21 whatever they said they were going to do, they did.
02:09:25 What I'm saying here is, when you cut through that
02:09:32 street heading nowhere, because you have got to make a
02:09:35 right to get out.
02:09:36 In other words you have to drive in a circle, so to
02:09:41 speak of.
02:09:41 So what I'm saying is, the closing of the street is one
02:09:44 I understand the bricks.
02:09:48 There's still going to be an easement for all the
02:09:50 utilities that are there, that cannot be giving
02:09:55 uprights because it services not only the university
02:09:57 but I'm sure other individuals and other businesses
02:10:00 along that corridor.
02:10:04 And these are the reasons that I'm saying that this
02:10:08 university has, that I know of, no intentions to harm
02:10:13 anyone, not to do anything that would be a disgrace to
02:10:27 After I left there it was in the top 30 universities in
02:10:30 the country.
02:10:30 Notice I said that was after I left there.
02:10:32 So they have done very well for the area.
02:10:41 They have grown by leaps and bounds.
02:10:43 And this time in society is one of the few, I guess,
02:10:46 that are really keeping the model going forward and
02:10:56 people being very well educated at the University of
02:10:59 Thank you.
02:11:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is a public hearing.
02:11:02 Does anyone wish to address council?
02:11:03 It's a public hearing.
02:11:04 >> If there's nobody else.
02:11:13 John, I don't have a problem with vacating it.
02:11:15 I don't have a problem with our ordinance as it relates
02:11:18 to brick because I think our ordinance protects the
02:11:22 brick ultimately.
02:11:25 It's my understanding the way the ordinance reads is if
02:11:27 you are going to pave over the brick or tear it up or
02:11:30 whatever, that you have to give the brick back.
02:11:32 And the curbs.
02:11:34 Is that your understanding?
02:11:36 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: That's right.
02:11:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My only concern as I stated earlier
02:11:41 was the reason I'm comfortable with vacating it is
02:11:45 because you are leaving it pretty much the same way it
02:11:47 is, you are leaving a transportation easement over it
02:11:49 so I can continue to cut through those streets.
02:11:51 >> Both ways.
02:11:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But at some point that might
02:11:57 change, okay.
02:11:58 And would the university have any qualms if we somehow
02:12:03 included language in there that said that it would come
02:12:05 back as a public hearing before this body if that
02:12:11 change came about at some future date, when you wanted
02:12:14 to were asking us to release the easement.
02:12:18 >>> You still have the transportation easement.
02:12:21 Let me talk to Rick.
02:12:22 >> But as long as it's a public hearing, some future
02:12:25 date, 10, 20 years from now, I'm fine with that because
02:12:29 the public hearing brings it up to this level of
02:12:32 discourse that I think is healthy when you are talking
02:12:35 about preserving our streets like that.
02:12:37 >> You would want to put it in as part of the
02:12:42 reservation of the transportation easement that any
02:12:44 future release would be subject to public hearing,
02:12:47 something to that effect?
02:12:48 >> Right.
02:12:49 To be fair to the community.
02:12:51 Obviously I'm just joke being cutting through.
02:12:55 You're okay with it?
02:12:57 >> That's fine.
02:12:58 As my observation I have walked the entire campus
02:13:00 preparing for this, and it's a complete brick street
02:13:05 campus, all over the place.
02:13:06 I have got to believe --
02:13:07 >> It would be very expensive.
02:13:09 >> But we'll come see you if we change our mind.
02:13:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close?
02:13:16 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to say that I'm really
02:13:19 proud of university of Tampa, and take people to see it
02:13:22 every time they come visit and try to get my nieces and
02:13:25 nephews to look at it as a possible school, not to
02:13:29 mention my own kids.
02:13:35 But I do worry about we don't know what's going to
02:13:38 happen in the future, and we have seen the character of
02:13:42 your campus, the history and the brick streets, but I
02:13:49 do worry what may happen in the future if we leave it
02:13:53 So I think I'll be okay with Mr. Dingfelder's
02:13:57 >> I'll see if Julie can write that back on another
02:14:02 first reading.
02:14:05 Let me see what she wants to do.
02:14:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close?
02:14:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
02:14:10 >> Second.
02:14:10 >> All in favor say Aye.
02:14:12 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
02:14:14 I'm not sure of this particular condition if it's a
02:14:19 legal issue to have it in the ordinance.
02:14:20 I don't have a necessarily problem with it.
02:14:23 I want to say for the purposes of record that this is a
02:14:25 process we would be putting in this ordinance, outside
02:14:27 the norm, and I just do have a little concern that if
02:14:32 I'm still here and other people will remember it, but
02:14:35 at some point in the future it could get missed in
02:14:37 terms of the ordinance, because it's not within our
02:14:39 normal processes.
02:14:42 I think what I would like to be able to do is draft the
02:14:45 language into the ordinance.
02:14:46 I'll bring it back at second reading.
02:14:48 But I also wants to make sure I can talk with staff to
02:14:52 find out how they can track that language.
02:14:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We can move forward on first
02:14:57 >> It has to come back anyway.
02:15:00 Even if you didn't add anything it would have to come
02:15:03 back anyway.
02:15:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, it comes back usually on the
02:15:05 consent docket as a -- as a resolution, in
02:15:13 >>JULIA COLE: The abandonment of the easement would
02:15:16 come back on your agenda as a resolution.
02:15:18 What would need to be insured is that there would be
02:15:21 some opportunity to move it into a different part of
02:15:25 the agenda and a different process, and I'm making my
02:15:29 statement for the record, because I heard what you all
02:15:32 want to put in here, and I don't necessarily have a
02:15:35 problem with it.
02:15:36 I have a little issue as it relates procedurally how we
02:15:38 would track that.
02:15:39 I will go ahead and during first and second reading
02:15:42 make the change in the ordinance and discuss with staff
02:15:45 the best way to track that particular type of
02:15:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I agree with everything you said.
02:15:51 However, I have a little skepticism regarding consent
02:15:57 Whoever is here should know what's on their committee
02:16:00 and should read all, their consent agenda only after
02:16:04 all of us agree that whoever is chair is that we have
02:16:08 the faith in them.
02:16:10 But, anyway, I want to thank you for McKay
02:16:14 auditorium, Plant Park, for those of us who remember
02:16:17 those landmarks.
02:16:19 They are all gone in May.
02:16:22 Mr. Chairman, I move an ordinance vacating, closing,
02:16:23 discontinuing, abandoning a certain right-of-way, all
02:16:27 that portion of north "A" street lying north of Kennedy
02:16:30 Boulevard, south of north "B" street north of Boulevard
02:16:35 and west of Brevard Avenue, and all that alleyway lying
02:16:39 north of Kennedy Boulevard, south of north "A" street,
02:16:43 east of North Boulevard, and west of Brevard Avenue, in
02:16:46 Haydens subdivision, in section 2 therefore, subject to
02:16:53 the reservation of certain easements asset forth herein
02:16:56 certain to comments, restrictions and conditions as
02:16:59 more particularly described herein providing an
02:17:01 effective date.
02:17:01 >> Does that include the amendment?
02:17:06 >> That includes whatever was said.
02:17:08 >> Second.
02:17:09 >>MARY MULHERN: This is first reading but comes back
02:17:11 as a resolution?
02:17:12 >> No.
02:17:13 It comes back with the additional items that council
02:17:16 asked of if they are legally possible.
02:17:19 >>MARY MULHERN: So how are he would doing first
02:17:21 reading, and then we are going to do another first
02:17:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The title is the same.
02:17:25 You are actually directing the legal department to add
02:17:27 language that would create the process of abandoning an
02:17:32 easement by public hearing as opposed to something that
02:17:35 would be done by resolution.
02:17:36 Then it will come back again as amend ad by council per
02:17:41 your direction for second reading and adoption public
02:17:44 You are only reading it by title today.
02:17:46 The title will not change.
02:17:48 You can do maintenance change between first and second
02:17:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll second it then.
02:17:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
02:17:56 All in favor?
02:17:58 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being
02:18:00 The second reading of the ordinance will be held
02:18:04 December 3rd at 9:30 a.m.
02:18:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: By the way with, as a matter of
02:18:13 disclosure my stepmother teaches at U.T. and we love
02:18:17 the Spartans.
02:18:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
02:18:24 Item 52.
02:18:26 That's where we need to continue that one?
02:18:30 Anyone who wishes to address council on item 52.
02:18:32 Anyone wishing to address council on 52?
02:18:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to continue to December 3rd.
02:18:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
02:18:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved by Councilwoman Miller, seconded
02:18:42 by Councilwoman Mulhern had, to continue the item to
02:18:45 December 3rd.
02:18:48 Same time as item 51.
02:18:50 Whatever time of that is.
02:18:53 Moved and seconded.
02:18:55 All in favor?
02:19:01 Item 53.
02:19:01 >> Barbara Lynch, Land Development Coordination.
02:19:11 This is vacating for a portion of Ybor street.
02:19:15 I have a map to put on the overhead.
02:19:24 Again petitioner's property is in red and the vacating
02:19:26 is in yellow.
02:19:27 This is an alley, it was actually a street at one time
02:19:31 that was narrowed by previous vacating and I'll show
02:19:35 you a graph in a second, from a 50 F.W. Woolworth
02:19:38 right-of-way and they did it in the whole subdivision.
02:19:41 This is between Cayuga, and runs from Florida to
02:19:47 I have some pictures of this.
02:19:49 I'll show you real quick.
02:19:54 It was a 50-foot right-of-way when it was originally
02:20:00 platted and they narrowed it down to a 50-foot alley,
02:20:02 the whole length of the subdivision, about eight
02:20:05 blocks, and was outlined in red on there is the
02:20:08 portions of the street that were vacated.
02:20:11 It was about 1933 when they did that.
02:20:13 >> That's from 50 to 15?
02:20:15 >> Yes.
02:20:16 I think they did it because it has two streets running.
02:20:19 They would have had Florida, and then when it was Ybor
02:20:22 street which is now the alley and then Cayuga so they
02:20:26 reduced that street down to a mere alley.
02:20:34 I have some photos. This is the alley looking south
02:20:35 from Cayuga street.
02:20:39 That portion is improved.
02:20:42 And this is north looking on Emma street.
02:20:51 And these are some of the abutting properties.
02:20:55 This is the northwest corner of Emma and Suwannee.
02:21:03 This is petitioner's property at the corner of Cayuga
02:21:08 and Suwannee.
02:21:12 This is the petitioner's property again at the corner
02:21:15 of Suwannee and Cayuga.
02:21:18 This is another of the abutting properties.
02:21:22 This is the petitioner's property the northeast corner
02:21:25 of Florida Avenue and Emma street, not abutting the
02:21:32 And the alley does not continue to the north.
02:21:34 But it does continue to the south.
02:21:35 And here is a photo of the alley looking south at Emma
02:21:39 This portion is not going to be vacated.
02:21:48 Staff has no objections to the request with
02:21:53 reservations by Verizon, TECO gas.
02:21:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I never knew Ybor street was that
02:22:03 far north.
02:22:03 I thought it ended.
02:22:05 >> Maybe it was just by the plat because wave to use
02:22:08 the plat name when we call these, and they have various
02:22:10 names on them that can be changed.
02:22:12 >> I never knew that part existed.
02:22:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
02:22:20 >> I'm Karen McDuffie, petitioner for the property.
02:22:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We are listening.
02:22:38 Go ahead.
02:22:38 >> Are you finished?
02:22:39 >> I didn't know if you had any questions.
02:22:40 >> Anyone from the public wish to address council?
02:22:44 Councilman Dingfelder.
02:22:45 >> In the explanation, it says you are requesting the
02:22:53 closing to prevent dumping and criminal activity.
02:22:56 And then I was looking at the pictures, an it looks
02:23:01 pretty clean and Spruced up and everything directly
02:23:03 behind your building.
02:23:05 I'm just wondering, what are you experiencing that's
02:23:10 creating this petition?
02:23:12 >> We have had kids that come and pray on the property.
02:23:17 There's actually a dock back there.
02:23:21 They are playing back there.
02:23:22 We have had several cars that were dumped back there,
02:23:26 found out later they were stolen.
02:23:28 Trash in general.
02:23:29 Old sofas, and just trash in general.
02:23:32 >> So you want it on both sides of the alley behind
02:23:35 your building?
02:23:36 >> I do.
02:23:37 >> All right, thank you.
02:23:44 >> Any other questions?
02:23:46 Anyone else from the public?
02:23:48 Close the public hearing?
02:23:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
02:23:51 >> Second.
02:23:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Close the public hearing.
02:23:53 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
02:23:57 Councilwoman Mulhern, read the ordinance.
02:23:58 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance vacating, closing,
02:24:04 discontinuing, an abandoning certain rights-of-way all
02:24:07 that portion of Ybor street south of east Cayuga street
02:24:11 north of east Emma street, east of north Florida and
02:24:14 west of north Suwannee Avenue, in Leslie's plat on the
02:24:17 west half of subdivision in the city of Tampa, Florida
02:24:20 the same being more fully described in section 2 hereof
02:24:23 subject to the reservation of certain easements as set
02:24:25 forth herein subject to certain covenants, conditions
02:24:28 and restrictions as more particularly described herein
02:24:31 providing an effective date.
02:24:32 >> Second.
02:24:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
02:24:37 All in favor?
02:24:39 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being
02:24:42 Second reading of the ordinance will be held December
02:24:45 3rd at 9:30 a.m. a.
02:24:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I voted no.
02:24:49 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Dingfelder voting
02:24:53 no and Saul-Sena being absent.
02:24:55 >> My hand was up to ask a question but -- sorry.
02:25:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 55.
02:25:10 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.
02:25:26 I have been sworn.
02:25:27 The next item on the agenda is petition V 09-4030 for
02:25:31 the property located at 3924 Spruce Street.
02:25:34 The property is currently zoned CI commercial
02:25:38 The proposed special use is for alcoholic beverage
02:25:40 sales, small venue, 2(COP), which allows for the sale
02:25:45 of alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises
02:25:48 and in sealed containers for consumption off the
02:25:51 The existing one-story structure contains 37,470 square
02:25:56 The proposed special use will contain 7,781 square
02:26:01 A total of 56 parking spaces are required and 66
02:26:05 parking spaces have been provided.
02:26:07 This site was approved for alcoholic beverage sales
02:26:09 under a one-year conditional approval with conditions
02:26:12 which are listed in the staff report.
02:26:14 The current request is for a permanent approval without
02:26:24 And this is an aerial of the site.
02:26:28 This is the site located here with Platt to the north,
02:26:34 Grady west of the site, this is Dale Mabry east of the
02:26:41 The north end of the site.
02:26:44 To the east.
02:26:46 Another view of the site that's looking east on Spruce.
02:26:58 Another view.
02:27:02 That's the site looking south.
02:27:06 Development review committee has reviewed the petition
02:27:08 and finds it consistent with the City of Tampa land
02:27:12 development regulations.
02:27:14 That concludes staff's presentation.
02:27:15 I'm available if you have any questions.
02:27:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions from council?
02:27:21 Officer Miller?
02:27:22 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police.
02:27:26 City of Tampa police department has no objections to
02:27:27 this wet zone special use.
02:27:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
02:27:30 >> Joe Redner, 3613 west Walnut Street, and the
02:27:46 property that we are looking, I guess you know all this
02:27:49 already, it's on the thing here.
02:27:52 Ware looking for a 2(COP) license.
02:27:56 We came here before, and you put conditions on us.
02:28:01 As far as I know we. Had a complaint.
02:28:04 We have been operating for a year.
02:28:26 I also want to mention my son is the owner of the
02:28:37 I'm just the owner of the property.
02:28:39 That's why I'm here.
02:28:40 I also want to mention my son is an alumnae of the
02:28:43 university of Tampa.
02:28:47 We are so darn proud of my son and what he has done
02:28:59 with this brewery.
02:29:00 It's unbelievable.
02:29:02 We have won a gold medal at the all American beer fest.
02:29:09 And that was our first time being up there.
02:29:14 And you will see back in the back, we have newspaper
02:29:21 articles from the beer industry in here about the beer,
02:29:24 which are very glowing.
02:29:25 In fact one of them says I do want to tell you that we
02:29:33 are not going to have anybody there that are going to
02:29:39 urinate in the yards or anything like that.
02:29:40 We charge $20 a bottle for our beer.
02:29:43 It's not cheap beer.
02:29:44 It's craft beer.
02:29:49 We have a beer that's number 7 in the country on
02:29:55 If you look over at another page you will see the
02:29:59 yellow marked best beers in the south, every one of our
02:30:03 beers is the top beers in the country, in the south.
02:30:06 The American south.
02:30:16 We have had five events in the conditions in which we
02:30:21 have had events.
02:30:22 We have never had a complaint from our events.
02:30:24 We have a couple hundred people, at least 200 people
02:30:27 show up for these events where we sell special editions
02:30:33 of our beer.
02:30:34 And it's just been doing very well.
02:30:37 We ship to different places in the country.
02:30:40 We are already in New York.
02:30:43 And they went through some hoops to get our beer in New
02:30:47 York because they really wanted it pretty bad.
02:30:49 The distributor up there.
02:30:54 I've always tried to get along with my neighbors.
02:30:56 I came here, I told you before that we weren't going to
02:30:58 have a problem with our neighbors.
02:31:00 I November they may not like it there, but talking
02:31:02 about actual physical problems.
02:31:06 We have never had a complaint.
02:31:08 And most of the questions -- I'll answer questions.
02:31:15 >> Council?
02:31:17 Anyone from the public wish to address council on this
02:31:20 Anyone from the public?
02:31:21 >> My name is Harvey Nichols.
02:31:31 I have been living for about 55 years or more, and we
02:31:36 have a nice community there.
02:31:40 And I moved from an area that had the beer gardens, and
02:31:45 I moved over there so it was nice and clean.
02:31:48 And that's what we want for our neighborhood, to be --
02:31:52 remain the same.
02:31:53 I know Mr. Redner has different businesses in this
02:32:01 I have been reading about it for many years.
02:32:02 But that's not my side.
02:32:06 I believe a person is supposed to go to work and
02:32:08 eastern a good living.
02:32:09 And the community want to be like everybody else.
02:32:12 They don't want no beer garden, anything sell of
02:32:17 alcoholic beverage.
02:32:18 We are 100 percent against it.
02:32:19 And I just want to speak my opinion, that I have some
02:32:23 of my neighbors here with me, that we are not for
02:32:28 alcoholic beverage in our neighborhood.
02:32:30 And I don't know anybody that do.
02:32:34 Because when you work you don't want peoples coming
02:32:37 around with these beer garden things.
02:32:41 And I see where it says special.
02:32:49 I don't know what's going to be coming out of this but
02:32:51 I don't want it in our neighborhood if a person can
02:32:54 come down there with a nice business it would be nice.
02:32:56 But it's right across the street from where I look at
02:33:01 it every day.
02:33:02 And I didn't buy my properties to go look at a beer
02:33:07 garden or somebody selling any kind of alcoholic
02:33:11 And I thank you all for listening to me.
02:33:13 And I hope you all consider this.
02:33:15 But we are not for any kind of alcohol in our
02:33:20 >> Is it Nichols?
02:33:31 >> Harvey Nichols.
02:33:32 >> My question is this.
02:33:33 A year ago we heard this petition.
02:33:35 And we labored over it long and hard.
02:33:38 I don't know if you were here.
02:33:39 Some of your neighbors.
02:33:40 >>> I was here.
02:33:41 >> I remember you and some of your neighbors were here.
02:33:43 And that's one of the reasons that we labored over it.
02:33:46 And we did two things a year ago.
02:33:48 We put a one-year conditional to see how it would go.
02:33:52 And then the other thing we did was we constrained them
02:33:54 with some hours of operation, so it wouldn't be
02:33:58 intrusive in terms of traffic and parking and some of
02:34:02 the things that you all were bringing up at the time.
02:34:04 So my question is, over the last year, Mr. Redner has
02:34:09 indicated his testimony is that there haven't been any
02:34:13 problems for the events that they have had, I guess on
02:34:17 a very limited basis.
02:34:19 Have you experienced any problems over the last year?
02:34:24 >> Well, see, I'm a person that goes in and out.
02:34:28 I see the business there.
02:34:30 But I goes in and out my own.
02:34:33 But I don't see peoples hanging around.
02:34:37 But I'm a person to go in and out.
02:34:39 But I own two pieces of property in that neighborhood.
02:34:44 And when people go to bringing in things like this,
02:34:49 what's coming after this?
02:34:50 I see where it said, you know -- well, what he got in
02:34:57 mind after he did this, he will come in with a lot of
02:34:59 other things.
02:35:02 Now Dale Mabry is set for that.
02:35:03 But we don't want it in our neighborhood.
02:35:06 >> You are definitely going to get that same question
02:35:08 from me in a few minutes.
02:35:10 Because when we zone something, it's forever.
02:35:13 And your question is very valid.
02:35:15 But I just wanted to know how the last year went.
02:35:18 >> I haven't seen any activities around much because
02:35:24 come in and park, all these vehicles in there, and they
02:35:27 go someplace.
02:35:29 But as far as me, I don't see anything because I don't
02:35:33 stand a around.
02:35:34 I go in and out all the time.
02:35:37 >> Next speaker.
02:35:39 >> Thank you.
02:35:46 I have been sworn in.
02:35:47 My name is Rufus Lewis.
02:35:50 I live in Carver City.
02:35:52 I'm on the board of the Carver City Lincoln Gardens
02:35:56 civic association.
02:35:56 And we don't have two or three hundred people in here
02:35:59 right now, but I'm speaking for the association, and
02:36:04 the majority of the association are in disagreement
02:36:09 with the wet zoning of the petition.
02:36:12 And that's all I can add.
02:36:15 But being on the board, we do have meetings, and, no,
02:36:19 we haven't received any complaints of any sort coming
02:36:22 from 3924.
02:36:25 But at the same time, since our neighborhood is such an
02:36:29 old neighborhood, and a lot of older people that lives
02:36:32 out there, I was looking at the diagram here on the
02:36:35 chart there, and Lincoln Gardens is just north of the
02:36:40 building which in my estimation got to be 500 yards,
02:36:48 and then you have a parking area, and then on the south
02:36:51 side you have Laurel street, and those are residents.
02:36:53 And these are the people that are quite concerned.
02:36:56 And there are impacts of traffic that comes in and out.
02:37:00 But the traffic that has been coming in and out, we
02:37:04 haven't received any serious complaints like that about
02:37:09 the traffic.
02:37:10 And Mr. Redner, as far as I know, he's been fair about
02:37:14 what he's doing, and we have no problem with it.
02:37:19 But just the consensus that the association is no for
02:37:24 the liquor sale.
02:37:25 >> Thank you very much.
02:37:27 Next speaker.
02:37:27 >> Good afternoon.
02:37:31 My name is Debra Thrower, and I have been sworn in.
02:37:34 I'm a resident of 3905 West Spruce Street, and it's
02:37:38 just a little ways from Mr. Redner's establishment.
02:37:42 And while he has gotten good views about his beer and
02:37:48 all that stuff, I think that's wonderful.
02:37:50 But in light of the fact that traffic has increased in
02:37:53 that area, and then the person made known that there's
02:37:58 66 parking spaces.
02:37:59 You couple that with alcohol and increased traffic, as
02:38:04 well as Tampa being I think number two for pedestrian
02:38:08 incidents, I think that all those things combined is a
02:38:13 combination for disaster.
02:38:16 Simply put.
02:38:18 Safety is the number one issue.
02:38:20 Although there hasn't been any concerns in the past
02:38:23 year, I think that there are factors that exist that
02:38:29 pose the probability of things happening.
02:38:31 It's just yet to be seen.
02:38:33 Thank you.
02:38:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
02:38:35 >> Good afternoon.
02:38:39 I have been sworn in.
02:38:40 I'm Jay Martin, vice-president of operations for JJ
02:38:44 Taylor distributing who is the distributor of Mr.
02:38:46 Redner's beers, in the 17 county area, specifically
02:38:50 here in Tampa also.
02:38:52 A little bit about craft beer.
02:38:53 Nationally, craft beer has about a five volume share of
02:38:58 all beers sold.
02:38:59 In Florida it's two share or less.
02:39:02 So Florida ranks behind or indexes behind in these
02:39:07 higher end craft beers that nationally are growing over
02:39:11 the last 35 years, 7%.
02:39:17 One of the reasons I think that is is the lack or
02:39:21 presence of great craft breweries like this in the
02:39:24 State of Florida.
02:39:25 I think we are real fortunate to have one here in Tampa
02:39:29 those getting national recognition.
02:39:30 The other areas of the country where craft beer is a
02:39:34 larger percent, there is a multitude of craft breweries
02:39:40 in that area.
02:39:41 Craft beer is sold on passion and having a brewery.
02:39:45 You are not going to see billboards from these brands.
02:39:48 So it's important for them to be able to have tastings.
02:39:52 The beer that they sell off their establishment would
02:39:57 actually take sales from what we do.
02:39:58 But it's so important for them to be able to, you know,
02:40:02 have people taste this beer and experience.
02:40:05 You know, it's more an experience.
02:40:06 It's not the old days of belly up to the bar.
02:40:10 These are people that they are willing to pay $20 for a
02:40:15 bottle of beer.
02:40:17 So we are for what the brewery is doing and think that
02:40:21 for their long-term, the investment that they are
02:40:23 making, they need to be able to market, and the most
02:40:27 effective way for small brewers to market is through
02:40:33 Thank you.
02:40:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
02:40:36 Next speaker.
02:40:37 Anyone else?
02:40:38 >> My name is Joseph Redner and I live at 13110 North
02:40:45 Boulevard, and I have been sworn in.
02:40:48 I'm owner of the brewery, one of the brewers.
02:40:51 We started with just myself and one other guy.
02:40:53 We are up to four employees now and we are looking to
02:40:57 hire another person, and if we could have the wet
02:40:59 zoning obviously we would be hiring additional people
02:41:02 to run that.
02:41:03 As you can see, in the booklet that we gave you, we
02:41:07 have garnered a lot of national awards.
02:41:10 That gold medal win that we got, there were 3,309 beers
02:41:15 in that competition, 78 won a gold medal.
02:41:18 So about 2%.
02:41:19 It's a very prestigious, called the Super Bowl of beer
02:41:23 And no brewery from Florida had won a gold medal in
02:41:27 over a decade.
02:41:28 We are the first one to do that.
02:41:30 So we are trying to bring something that's quality,
02:41:33 about exceptionalism.
02:41:34 We were very, very dedicated to making a quality
02:41:37 product, and anything we do, that's going to show.
02:41:40 So as far as the neighborhood, my mother lives in
02:41:42 Lincoln Gardens.
02:41:45 My mother lives not a two-minute walk from the brewery.
02:41:49 Inc. walk to her house in two minutes.
02:41:50 So I'm not going to do something in the neighborhood
02:41:52 that my mother is going to come over and say, son, what
02:41:55 are you doing?
02:41:56 So I understand their concern.
02:41:57 And like we did last time, I'm willing to do whatever
02:42:01 it is to relieve their fears about what impact we may
02:42:09 Without you having been to a craft brewery and seeing
02:42:12 what it's about, you may not understand, this is
02:42:15 definitely more than aficionado crowd.
02:42:17 It's not the kind of crowd that's going to be
02:42:19 boisterous, wild, not the kind of crowd to go out and
02:42:23 pee in the parking lot or stumble into the street or
02:42:26 drive drunk.
02:42:27 It's not that kind of crowd.
02:42:28 We mentioned $20.
02:42:30 Actually the highest beer retails for $28, what you can
02:42:33 buy at whole foods and total wine and more right in
02:42:36 front of us.
02:42:38 The kind of crowd you have is a higher income crowd, a
02:42:41 professional crowd.
02:42:42 They are not the kind of people that are genuinely
02:42:45 going to be creating the kind of problems that I think
02:42:47 will be a real concern for people of Lincoln Gardens
02:42:49 and Carver City.
02:42:50 >> If you think you have a problem with your mother,
02:42:56 adopt be late with your rent.
02:42:58 [ Laughter ]
02:43:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public?
02:43:08 Anyone else from the public?
02:43:09 >> I would like to show you one thing.
02:43:14 We are not going to sell other breweries' beers.
02:43:19 We are not going to be a beer joint.
02:43:21 We are only going to sell our own beers and have
02:43:24 tastings there.
02:43:25 >>> Occasionally you do a lot of cross promotions.
02:43:30 So I would like to be able to sell Dunedin brewery's
02:43:34 I would like to be able to sell other stuff that's made
02:43:36 in Florida because I would like to showcase it.
02:43:38 So I wouldn't want to say well, we are never going to
02:43:40 sell any other brewery's beer but to showcase our beer
02:43:44 first, but also the Florida craft beer movement second.
02:43:48 And you go to a state like Wisconsin, which is
02:43:50 well-known for its craft breweries, there's 39
02:43:53 breweries, population 6 million.
02:43:58 Florida has 36.
02:44:00 So I would never say, Dunedin beer, I would low to
02:44:03 showcase your beer so if someone may go out to the
02:44:05 beach they are more aware of you and there will also be
02:44:08 that ripple that will help promote craft beer.
02:44:12 I would never say we are not going to sell other
02:44:14 peoples beers exclusively.
02:44:15 >> I'm glad you cleared that up.
02:44:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How many more minutes have they got
02:44:24 >>THE CLERK: A minute and a half.
02:44:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You have a minute and a half left.
02:44:29 >>> No, just to answer questions.
02:44:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I want you to finish your
02:44:33 statement, your rebuttal.
02:44:35 You have one more minute.
02:44:38 Councilman Dingfelder.
02:44:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't know who to ask this,
02:44:45 junior or senior.
02:44:46 I'll let you guys decide.
02:44:47 The concern I have, I think I said it a year ago, is
02:44:51 that regardless of what -- and we say this all the
02:44:56 time -- the zoning runs with the land, as you know,
02:44:59 Joe, and I could ask you today, what's going to be on
02:45:04 this establishment 50 years from now, all right?
02:45:08 And I'm pretty sure that -- I don't know if Joe Jr. is
02:45:13 going to be right.
02:45:14 You are because you look healthier than I do.
02:45:17 But you understand my point.
02:45:20 And we have to hear the neighbors' concerns.
02:45:22 But the last time it had to do with hours of operation.
02:45:28 I would like to have us allow you to continue this with
02:45:32 the permanent 2(COP) but with some serious limitations
02:45:37 on hours of operation, similar to what we adopted last
02:45:42 I don't know if your hours have changed, if the
02:45:45 suggestions have changed.
02:45:46 We can't impose that on you.
02:45:48 We can only ask you if you would agree to that as a
02:45:50 condition, and then if you agree to it, then we could
02:45:53 consider it.
02:45:54 But that's where this councilman is coming from, as a
02:45:59 form of compromise.
02:45:59 >> Another suggestion for compromise was give us the
02:46:05 2(COP) and put us on a year condition like you did the
02:46:09 last time, and if we cause problems, then we have to
02:46:12 come back again.
02:46:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.
02:46:14 And you haven't obviously so that's good.
02:46:16 So we have achieved a year and that's a good thing.
02:46:18 So now we are at this point.
02:46:19 But my point is, is this longevity issue.
02:46:23 So let's say the craft beer industry goes bankrupt and
02:46:28 belly up, ten years from now and you need to sell the
02:46:32 building and he needs to sell the business, but that
02:46:34 2(COP) is still there, okay, which could then become a
02:46:38 little neighborhood bar serving beer and wine, and
02:46:42 you're asking for unlimited hours, which in this
02:46:45 community would be 3 a.m., and that's not good for
02:46:48 these folks at all.
02:46:49 And it's probably not good for Joe's mother either.
02:46:53 So that's my point.
02:46:56 Compromise on hours of operation, I could probably
02:46:58 support it.
02:46:59 That's up to each.
02:47:00 >>> 2(COP)s until 3:00 in the morning?
02:47:04 I'm sorry, I thought it was still 1:00.
02:47:08 >> I would have no problem with coming back and same
02:47:14 these are the hours we are willing to operate.
02:47:15 But the concern we are having now is we are basically
02:47:18 open nine to five and that's very difficult for a lot
02:47:20 of people because they either have to take their lunch
02:47:22 off, and we can't sell on premises but a very small
02:47:26 portion of the time, and it prevents you from doing a
02:47:28 lot of the things you would do, and also just the money
02:47:34 we make on beer, we keep, we don't have to wait the 30
02:47:37 day so that's very important to our growth.
02:47:38 It's going to allow us to buy additional stainless
02:47:41 tanks to put on the floor to make more beer.
02:47:44 >> The question is the hours, councilman.
02:47:46 What hours are we looking for?
02:47:48 We'll be here all day.
02:47:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I mean that's my question.
02:47:51 I would think -- I don't go to these types of tasting
02:47:54 parties but I would assume looking at the ones up and
02:47:57 down the street, they usually look like they close down
02:48:00 around 9:00 or 10:00 at night which I think is a
02:48:03 reasonable constraint, you know, something along those
02:48:07 lines, so we don't get into the fact that if it shut
02:48:11 down, then it's not really a bar, if it's going to shut
02:48:14 down at 9:00.
02:48:15 >> Can I -- what if we were to say Friday and Saturday
02:48:22 you till midnight.
02:48:23 We have no plans on being open Monday and Tuesday
02:48:25 because we are a production brewery, so as far as the
02:48:27 tasting room, while we could be open Monday and Tuesday
02:48:32 we aren't and it just a factor of if you get people in.
02:48:37 If we are able to do Friday, Saturday till midnight
02:48:39 that, would give us two days that we could really
02:48:42 operate more like a brew pub bar, where people come in,
02:48:47 enjoy themselves.
02:48:48 If we can expand our hours that we are selling on the
02:48:52 weekdays until, say, ten, and then be able to also sell
02:48:55 the beer to go until ten.
02:48:57 Right now we are not selling any beer on premises, for
02:49:00 on premises consumption, except we can do it four times
02:49:03 in a calendar month.
02:49:04 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a question.
02:49:14 It will still be a bar when they sell it.
02:49:17 What's going to happen if it's a bar?
02:49:20 So it's not making no difference the hours on Friday
02:49:23 and Saturday.
02:49:23 >> I have a suggestion.
02:49:26 Put the bar in conjunction with the brewery.
02:49:28 If the brewery goes, then the bar goes.
02:49:32 >> We need legal opinion on that.
02:49:34 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
02:49:37 Certain certainly in the past limited to a particular
02:49:42 I would just want to make sure from land development
02:49:45 and/or the zoning administrator if we can't figure it
02:49:49 out right now that we feel we can defend and everyone
02:49:52 knows what it is, and I'm not sure I can do that right
02:49:55 If we have some time, I'm not sure if we can get hold
02:49:58 of the zoning administrator but that would be my only
02:50:00 issue with it, is enforceability and everyone being
02:50:04 clear what the term was.
02:50:05 But certainly you have limited the sell to particular
02:50:08 uses as a hotel or a restaurant.
02:50:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think that's unique and one that
02:50:17 would make sense, if the manufacturer goes, so goes the
02:50:21 other part of the operation, which is consumption.
02:50:26 So we'll wait and see what happens legally.
02:50:28 But I think that's something that's come up that is an
02:50:33 effort to mediate both sides, so that if they leave,
02:50:38 then you can't have a bar there, or it's 2(COP) wine
02:50:42 operation, if the manufacturing leaves, and it has to
02:50:47 be worded to the effect that whatever you are doing now
02:50:51 You can't say, well, I made one bottle of beer in two
02:50:54 months, therefore I stay open.
02:50:56 It has to be based on the productivity of what you have
02:50:58 now, and that you have to produce the same amount of
02:51:02 volume that you are, in case you were to close down so
02:51:05 the other would not kick in.
02:51:06 >>> I think could you also add that you have to be
02:51:09 federally state licensed as a brewery because licensing
02:51:12 is expensive and the process, so for someone to go
02:51:15 through all that to brew one bottle of beer you are
02:51:18 paying $3,000 a year just for the license.
02:51:21 >> We agree.
02:51:21 >> And you have to carry bonds,.
02:51:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Miller.
02:51:27 >>GWEN MILLER: My concern is this neighborhood came
02:51:30 down last year, same time, asking for your help.
02:51:33 You turned them down.
02:51:34 They are back here again this year asking for council
02:51:37 We support other neighborhoods.
02:51:39 This neighborhood has been coming twice, not once.
02:51:41 And you still are not going to protect their
02:51:45 They want to have safe neighborhood.
02:51:47 They want to be able to walk out of their house.
02:51:50 Like Mr. Nichols say he can look out every day and you
02:51:53 all still just ignore that neighborhood.
02:51:56 Like they are not even a neighborhood.
02:51:58 Just sitting back there doing nothing.
02:52:00 I think it's time to treat everybody the same way.
02:52:04 This is the second time they have been down here asking
02:52:06 for your help and you are still turning them down.
02:52:09 I can't get used to that.
02:52:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There's something that bothers me
02:52:16 the most, it's not the operation.
02:52:18 We as a city have let the neighborhood on the Home
02:52:23 Depot exit, they are still doing it.
02:52:25 I asked many times.
02:52:27 I guarantee you, they have one police officer there and
02:52:29 a motorcycle or whatever, they can give out 50 tickets
02:52:32 because they are jumping over the curb.
02:52:34 They told me they weren't putting in rubberized pallets
02:52:39 so they couldn't do it, and now what?
02:52:40 That was three months ago.
02:52:42 They are still doing it and the majority of the traffic
02:52:43 is coming into that neighborhood is coming from that
02:52:47 location where they make the left, and the island is
02:52:50 not big enough.
02:52:51 It's only about that high.
02:52:53 It used to be like that before it wore out.
02:52:55 And that's part of the neighborhood problem.
02:52:57 We haven't addressed it.
02:52:58 It has nothing to do with this.
02:52:59 But I'm saying let's talk about protection.
02:53:01 Let's protect them all.
02:53:02 Because that's wrong what's happening there.
02:53:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
02:53:09 Motion to close?
02:53:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I don't know if we --
02:53:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The legal department.
02:53:16 >>REBECCA KERT: If you were interested in tying the
02:53:19 sale of alcoholic beverages to the brewery use it would
02:53:23 need to be continued for two weeks to see if we can
02:53:26 figure out if some state license is required, if Mr.
02:53:29 Redner would be ready to continue for two weeks.
02:53:33 So the legal department could work with him on that.
02:53:35 >> I think it's a good idea, as a matter of fact.
02:53:37 >> It would be nice to see that in an ordinance.
02:53:39 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Miranda, those things you
02:53:42 were talking about, is that something the city was
02:53:44 supposed to do?
02:53:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, sir.
02:53:47 We'll get into that later.
02:53:48 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: We need to get the city out
02:53:50 there, and I commend Mr. Redner's son for doing what he
02:53:54 This is what our president wants to do, create jobs,
02:53:58 So we are trying to do that.
02:54:00 At least it's not a prison.
02:54:02 And put people from Gitmo there.
02:54:05 But I applaud you.
02:54:07 And maybe Mr. Dingfelder won't be here 50 years from
02:54:11 >>GWEN MILLER: But people don't want that kind of jobs
02:54:17 in the neighborhoods.
02:54:18 They want jobs that are good but not that kind of job.
02:54:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move to hold this hearing for two
02:54:24 weeks so that we can come back with some type of
02:54:26 wording to find out it fits the description of how we
02:54:29 can be helpful in all cases.
02:54:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
02:54:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You see those folks back there.
02:54:39 They have been diligent.
02:54:40 You need to meet with them.
02:54:42 Four, excuse me.
02:54:43 She was hiding.
02:54:45 You need to meet with them after we leave and see if
02:54:48 you can work out some -- maybe there's some
02:54:53 >> We went to a meeting.
02:54:56 >> That's fine but they are still here so let's keep
02:54:59 >> There's a motion to continue for two weeks.
02:55:02 Is that right?
02:55:02 >>THE CLERK: December 3rd.
02:55:19 >> At 1:30 is the billboard ordinance.
02:55:22 If you want to set it for 10:00.
02:55:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have something coming back.
02:55:27 Is that the 17th?
02:55:28 >> Well, you have ten second readings.
02:55:31 You can take it up after that at 10:30 if you would
02:55:34 like to set it at the hearing.
02:55:36 Otherwise the only thing scheduled for the afternoon of
02:55:39 the 3rd is the workshop --
02:55:42 The only thing scheduled for the afternoon.
02:55:44 So you all want 9:30 on the 3rd?
02:56:02 So the motion is continue till the 3rd at 10:00.
02:56:06 Moved and seconded.
02:56:07 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
02:56:13 The last item is item 56.
02:56:15 >> Next to the last item.
02:56:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next to the last.
02:56:21 We have calendars.
02:56:22 Then we have to tape the holiday greetings.
02:56:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ho ho ho
02:56:28 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.
02:56:32 I have one item on the agenda, V 09-438 for property
02:56:37 located at 2223 Westshore Boulevard, university B, 203.
02:56:45 Community alternative for shopping center.
02:56:47 The proposed alcoholic beverage special use is for
02:56:51 alcoholic beverage sales large venue 4(COP-X) which
02:56:56 allows for the sale of beverages regardless of
02:56:57 alcoholic content for consumption on premises only and
02:57:01 in conjunction with a bar and lounge.
02:57:03 This site is located in the International Plaza.
02:57:06 The current use is an existing 4(COP-X) which was
02:57:10 approved in 2002.
02:57:13 It contains 6,920 square feet which includes an
02:57:17 interior patio area.
02:57:18 The request is to add an exterior patio, containing 557
02:57:23 square feet, for a total of 7,477 square feet.
02:57:30 89 parking spaces are required and 89 parking spaces
02:57:31 are provided on-site.
02:57:35 This is an aerial of the site.
02:57:40 International Plaza located here at Westshore Boulevard
02:57:43 to the west.
02:57:44 And this is Blue Martini located here inside of the
02:57:49 food court area of the
02:57:51 And pictures of the site.
02:57:57 This is the entrance to the site.
02:58:02 That's another view of the site.
02:58:04 This is the area where the addition will be located.
02:58:11 This is the view going into the food court.
02:58:14 The development review committee has reviewed the
02:58:16 petition and finds the request consistent with
02:58:18 applicable City of Tampa land development regulations.
02:58:21 That concludes staff's presentation.
02:58:23 I'm available if you have any questions.
02:58:24 >> Any questions for council?
02:58:28 Officer Miller?
02:58:29 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police department.
02:58:34 Police department has no objections.
02:58:36 To this special use.
02:58:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
02:58:39 >> Good afternoon.
02:58:42 Ann Pollack of Mechanik Nuccio, 305 South Boulevard.
02:58:46 Really all we are doing is expanding the patio that's
02:58:49 And it will kind of wind with it all up with itself the
02:58:54 other patios.
02:58:55 >> Anyone in opposition?
02:58:57 Speak now or forever hold your peace.
02:59:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
02:59:02 >> Second.
02:59:04 >> All in favor signify by Aye.
02:59:08 Read the ordinance.
02:59:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance for first
02:59:11 reading, ordinance number 2002-128 approving a special
02:59:16 use permit for alcoholic beverage large venue making
02:59:20 sale alcoholic content beer wine liquor 4(COP-X) on
02:59:25 consumption on premises only at or from a certain plot,
02:59:29 lot, tract of land located at 2223 Westshore Boulevard
02:59:33 unit B-203, 204, Tampa, Florida, more particularly
02:59:41 described in section 3 hereof providing for repeal of
02:59:44 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective
02:59:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
02:59:51 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
02:59:53 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano being absent
02:59:56 at vote, and Saul-Sena being absent.
02:59:59 Second reading of the ordinance will be held December
03:00:02 3rd at 9:30 a.m.
03:00:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The last item I believe is our
03:00:10 Mr. Shelby.
03:00:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That would be Ms. Foxx-Knowles.
03:00:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Fletcher, do you want to make a
03:00:21 The hearing is still set for the 2nd at 1:30 in the
03:00:25 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes.
03:00:27 This is where we are.
03:00:28 You all did set that hearing by statute, your duty is
03:00:32 to set forth with.
03:00:36 Apparently from the memo from Mrs. Crum the first
03:00:39 available date that all council members were available
03:00:41 was December 2nd.
03:00:45 I did receive a phone call from council for the PBA.
03:00:51 She apparently has a hearing in the morning.
03:00:53 She actually indicated she thought it was all day.
03:00:56 Our folks believe that it is a half-day hearing.
03:01:05 From their perspective, from the administration's
03:01:07 perspective, we can move that, make that time available
03:01:10 for council if necessary, or finish that arbitration in
03:01:14 time to do the impasse in the afternoon.
03:01:16 Council for the PBA was not happy to be able to have to
03:01:19 do two in the same day, just to pass along what she had
03:01:22 told me.
03:01:23 But certainly it's council's right to set the hearing
03:01:25 as you believe appropriate, and the first time
03:01:28 available is that date on December 2nd.
03:01:31 >> We have already taken action on that.
03:01:36 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: That's right.
03:01:38 And you should expect to get comments on the procedure
03:01:40 that was previously adopted.
03:01:42 But as we indicated earlier, if you believe any of
03:01:45 their comments have merit, that change can be made at
03:01:49 the hearing.
03:01:50 >> Councilman Dingfelder.
03:01:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Two things.
03:01:55 One, I'm a little surprised that before they went to
03:01:58 the exercise of clearing our calendars, they didn't
03:02:01 call the union and clear their calendars.
03:02:04 Who was doing that?
03:02:06 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I can't speak to that.
03:02:08 >> It wasn't your office?
03:02:09 >> Not my office, no.
03:02:10 >> I don't think that was very polite behavior on their
03:02:16 Number two as you said, that other arbitration is with
03:02:19 >> With the city, yes.
03:02:21 >> So we can agree to move it?
03:02:25 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We certainly -- I'm not sure of
03:02:27 the nature of the arbitration.
03:02:29 All I know is it's with us based on representation by
03:02:32 council for the PBA.
03:02:33 >> I would hope that you or the administration would
03:02:36 make sure that happens.
03:02:37 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes, sir, I agree with that.
03:02:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It is my understanding that is with
03:02:43 the firefighters and they can move that.
03:02:46 I don't know.
03:02:47 But that's what I have been advised of.
03:02:51 So we hope that city administration will accommodate
03:02:54 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I can tell you I'll do my best to
03:03:00 make sure that happens.
03:03:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I guess we take up the
03:03:10 But we also have to take up item number 57, which
03:03:13 hadn't been resolved.
03:03:14 And I do have resolution on that.
03:03:16 If you want to take it now first or we'll come back to
03:03:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 57, let's get that out of the
03:03:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It has been confirmed by the clerk
03:03:23 this was originally set to be heard on the 17th.
03:03:27 Was -- September 17th.
03:03:29 The record has not been perfected.
03:03:31 And pursuant to city code, it's then deemed to be
03:03:39 And also in addition I see that the petitioner has not
03:03:41 made a personal appearance, and again that is another
03:03:43 basis for council to move for denial.
03:03:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I need a motion for system 57.
03:03:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I guess to remove from the agenda.
03:03:52 >>GWEN MILLER: To deny.
03:03:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: To deny the request by the
03:03:58 appellant because of the items that were just read out
03:04:02 of the code.
03:04:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Actually what it says, to give you
03:04:06 the exact language, is under misnotice, it says failure
03:04:10 to perfect notice required for the rescheduled hearing
03:04:13 shall result in the appeal hearing being denied.
03:04:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
03:04:21 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
03:04:28 We take up item 50, our calendar.
03:04:30 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: City clerk.
03:04:35 I wanted to review the tentative 2010 City Council
03:04:47 In 2010 beginning in January on the first and third
03:04:51 Thursdays council will have regular session.
03:04:55 On the second Thursday, council will have CRA meeting.
03:04:58 And an evening session.
03:05:01 Note that there are two evening sessions each month on
03:05:09 the second and fourth Thursday through June 2010.
03:05:11 On the fourth Thursday, we have the workshop sessions
03:05:17 and a of course the evening session.
03:05:20 Workshops have already been scheduled through March
03:05:25 The exceptions to the scheduled meeting times include
03:05:30 July, August, November, and December 2010.
03:05:34 In July, the exception will be due to council's
03:05:38 vacation, which will be the first two weeks in July.
03:05:42 No meeting on July 1st, and July 8th.
03:05:46 In August, the exception will be the Florida League of
03:05:49 Cities conference on August 19th, 2010.
03:05:54 There is no meeting scheduled for that date.
03:05:56 According to the calendar, the tentative calendar.
03:06:01 In November, there will only be two meetings, on the
03:06:05 first and third Thursday, and an evening session on the
03:06:09 third Thursday.
03:06:12 We have veterans day on November 11th, which is on
03:06:17 a Thursday, and of course we have Thanksgiving.
03:06:21 So no CRA meeting is scheduled for that month.
03:06:25 And no workshop is scheduled.
03:06:31 In December, due to the holiday and winter vacation,
03:06:35 workshop session has been moved to the second Thursday,
03:06:40 and an evening session scheduled for the third Thursday
03:06:44 on December 16th.
03:06:46 We have previewed the calendar with Land Development
03:06:48 Coordination and also wanted to know that the calendar
03:06:55 does not reflect dates for the 2011 budget workshop or
03:07:00 budget hearing.
03:07:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions by council?
03:07:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just an observation that your
03:07:12 tentative calendar up until this point allows for,
03:07:18 let's say in December, previously set based on your
03:07:21 existing calendar you have a split session where tough
03:07:23 CRA and the workshop.
03:07:25 You had indicated that the last meeting dissatisfaction
03:07:28 with that process.
03:07:29 And therefore to accommodate that, if you will notice,
03:07:32 you don't have from a certain point out on, when the
03:07:37 calendar takes effect, you will not have CRA and
03:07:39 workshop dates together.
03:07:41 Basically, there are months then that you don't have
03:07:44 workshops scheduled.
03:07:45 And in November, because November is such a truncated
03:07:49 month, in working with the CRA, staff and Mr. Huey,
03:07:54 there's also no CRA meeting in November.
03:07:57 So you have no workshop and no CRA in November.
03:07:59 But that addresses the issue of the fact, the problem
03:08:04 you would have when you have too much front loaded on
03:08:06 days where you have the CRA and the workshop together.
03:08:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions by council?
03:08:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You want a motion on the calendar?
03:08:19 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: It would be nice so we could
03:08:21 formalize it.
03:08:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.
03:08:23 >> Second.
03:08:24 >> It's moved and seconded.
03:08:26 All in favor?
03:08:28 >> Who was the second?
03:08:29 >> Councilman Miranda moved it.
03:08:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I seconded it.
03:08:33 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Thank you, council.
03:08:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
03:08:40 Is there anything else?
03:08:41 Receive and file?
03:08:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
03:08:44 >> Second.
03:08:44 >> All in favor signify by saying Aye.
03:08:47 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Can I bring something up,
03:08:52 Mr. Chairman?
03:08:55 I would like to have whoever is in charge of our
03:08:58 streetlights to do a review of County Line Road
03:09:04 adjacent to Grand Hamptons.
03:09:07 It's very dangerous out there.
03:09:09 I know there's a mix of Pasco County on one side, and
03:09:14 Hillsborough County, and the City of Tampa.
03:09:16 So it's very confusing.
03:09:19 Every time there's an accident there, I'll see state
03:09:22 troopers there, or I'll see the county there,
03:09:24 occasionally I'll see the Tampa Police Department.
03:09:27 But we need some sort of streetlights on that street.
03:09:30 Last year there were four deaths there.
03:09:34 A kid got killed jogging in the morning.
03:09:37 A gentleman got killed on his bicycle.
03:09:39 Plus two other automobile accidents.
03:09:45 And there are telephone calls there to make it easier
03:09:51 to implement.
03:09:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
03:09:53 It's been moved and seconded.
03:09:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Was that a request for some sort of
03:09:58 action to come back?
03:10:01 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Some sort of report to come back.
03:10:03 Let's give them 60 days to come back and see who is
03:10:09 going to be paying for it.
03:10:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you want that as a written report
03:10:13 or appearance?
03:10:16 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Written report.
03:10:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
03:10:20 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
03:10:24 Any other item need to come?
03:10:26 Yes, sir.
03:10:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would just like to reiterate what
03:10:29 I said earlier, that we asked the police chief to have
03:10:31 traffic, those individuals in the traffic division of
03:10:36 the fine police force that we have to look at that
03:10:38 location on Spruce, just east of Dale Mabry, about 80,
03:10:45 90 feet, where that little island.
03:10:49 I would say 25% of the cars go out, jump the island,
03:10:52 and we agreed when we did that years ago that rezoning
03:10:57 at that time would not happen to that neighborhood, and
03:10:59 that is exactly what's happening.
03:11:00 And --
03:11:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
03:11:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There's nothing going on there to
03:11:05 prevent that from happening.
03:11:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
03:11:08 All in favor?
03:11:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Any action by council?
03:11:11 Do you want a report?
03:11:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: A report in 60 days.
03:11:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
03:11:15 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
03:11:19 Written report back to council in 60 days on that
03:11:23 Spruce Street area there.
03:11:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Home Depot exit.
03:11:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other items to come before
03:11:31 Anyone from the public?
03:11:33 Anyone from the public wish to address council may come
03:11:35 forward at this time.
03:11:41 (City council adjourns)
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