TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, December 10, 2009
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11:01:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will come to order.
11:01:29 >> Roll call.
11:01:31 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
11:01:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
11:01:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
11:01:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
11:01:37 Have a letter from Councilman Miranda.
11:01:42 Please be advised that I will be unable to attend the
11:01:44 workshop on December the 10th, 2009 at 11:00 a.m. due
11:01:49 to a family illness.
11:01:51 Please see that the reason for my absence is read into
11:01:54 the record.
11:01:55 Thank you.
11:01:55 Turn to Councilwoman Miller.
11:02:03 Presentation for the police Officer of the Month.
11:02:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Good morning, council.
11:02:18 It is my honor today to present our Officer of the
11:02:21 Month, which is Detective Melanie Holder.
11:02:26 I'm going to turn it over to Chief Castor and she will
11:02:28 tell us why Melanie is the Officer of the Month.
11:02:32 >> Good morning, Council.
11:02:32 As it is every month, it is my honor to present the
11:02:36 Officer of the Month for December 2009.
11:02:38 Melanie Holder is a detective in the Sex Crimes and
11:02:41 Family Violence Unit at the Tampa Police Department.
11:02:43 She's held that assignment for quite some time, which I
11:02:46 personally think is the most difficult assignment in
11:02:49 the police department, because one, you have to deal
11:02:51 with these victims whose lives have been destroyed.
11:02:54 And you also have to deal with the worst elements of
11:02:59 society with the suspects and defendants in these
11:03:03 Melanie is an outstanding investigator.
11:03:06 She also has a great personality, which allows her to
11:03:10 give comfort to the victims, to put them at ease so
11:03:14 they can give the information that she needs.
11:03:16 And also, she's able to build rapport with the
11:03:19 suspects, which usually leads in her cases to a
11:03:22 We are recognizing her this month for a particular case
11:03:26 that she investigated, which was a very, very brutal
11:03:30 home invasion and sexual assault.
11:03:33 She did a neighborhood canvass, was able to find a
11:03:36 maintenance worker who led her to a witness who was
11:03:39 very reluctant and deceitful.
11:03:43 Through her abilities to build a rapport, she got
11:03:47 information from this witness that led to two possible
11:03:51 She immediately put out a bulletin statewide, located
11:03:54 one of the individuals in Gainesville.
11:03:56 She drove to Gainesville the next day, interviewed the
11:03:59 individual, led to the second suspect.
11:04:02 Got confessions from both of them and they plead guilty
11:04:06 and are now in prison and off the streets of our
11:04:10 So, that's just one of the investigations that she's
11:04:13 being recognized for.
11:04:14 She handles a lot of the high-profile cases that are
11:04:19 assigned to that unit.
11:04:20 Each of the investigators is outstanding, but Melanie
11:04:24 tends to catch all those really tough cases.
11:04:27 She handles a case load of approximately 30
11:04:29 investigations a month.
11:04:30 And she's able to investigate those, ensure that
11:04:36 they're truthful and then take them to successful
11:04:41 conclusion, which I said usually results in a
11:04:43 So she's being recognized for this particular case and
11:04:47 for everything else she does every day to keep our
11:04:49 community safe.
11:04:51 As the Tampa Police Department Officer of the Month for
11:04:53 December 2009.
11:04:56 [ Applause ]
11:05:02 >>GWEN MILLER: On behalf of the Tampa City Council, I'd
11:05:04 like to present you this commendation.
11:05:06 Not going to read it because Chief said all those
11:05:09 wonderful things you have done.
11:05:09 We are so proud of you.
11:05:11 I will just present it to you.
11:05:12 >> Thank you.
11:05:12 >> At this time, the public sector is going to give you
11:05:15 some gifts.
11:05:16 The first one is from Charlie's Steakhouse, a gift
11:05:19 And you're going to get some more.
11:05:22 >> Thank you.
11:05:24 >> Good morning.
11:05:25 Danny Lewis from Bill Currie Ford, representing the
11:05:28 Bill Currie family.
11:05:29 It's always an honor to come down here, but it's really
11:05:32 special -- I remember Melanie 15 years ago, I was on
11:05:37 the board of directors of PAL.
11:05:39 Melanie was assigned there, and I heard all the same
11:05:42 Great personality, dedication of duty, caring.
11:05:45 It is so good to see you honored today.
11:05:49 >> Good to see you.
11:05:51 Thank you.
11:05:54 >> Good morning.
11:05:55 On behalf of Tampa's Lowry Park Zoo, want to present to
11:05:58 you a couple of passes, so you can enjoy the zoo at
11:06:01 your leisure.
11:06:03 >> Thank you.
11:06:03 We always enjoy the zoo.
11:06:06 >> Congratulations.
11:06:07 I'm Steve Stickley with Stepps Towing Service.
11:06:10 On behalf of Jim and Judy and Sod Stepp, we'd like to
11:06:14 present this trophy.
11:06:14 Over the years, I have been trying to get them to
11:06:17 change the gender so I have a male and a female statue.
11:06:24 And also have a gift certificate to Leroy Selmon.
11:06:30 >> Thank you.
11:06:30 I ate there yesterday.
11:06:32 >> Jimmy Meyer from the Tampa PBA.
11:06:35 Gift certificate for your pleasure spending, perhaps
11:06:39 But also other reasons you will be getting award, one
11:06:43 of the very few successful police marriages.
11:06:47 Bobby Holder of the police department too.
11:06:49 So congratulations to yourself and also Bobby.
11:06:51 It's a joint effort.
11:06:54 >> Thank you.
11:06:58 >> Here's a dozen roses.
11:07:00 Normally I give it to the officer and he gives it to
11:07:03 his significant other.
11:07:07 >> Thank you, I won't change the tradition.
11:07:09 I'll give it to my husband.
11:07:11 [ Laughter ]
11:07:12 >> Thank you so much.
11:07:17 >> I came prepared.
11:07:18 I have got two tee shirts.
11:07:20 So you get the choice.
11:07:22 You get either the Rigatoni green or the Rigatoni's
11:07:28 >> Thank you so much.
11:07:29 >> On behalf of Rigatoni's they're providing you with a
11:07:33 gift certificate so you can enjoy lunch or dinner.
11:07:36 On behalf of Bryn-Alan Studios, a gift certificate to
11:07:41 have your pictures taken.
11:07:42 >> I love pictures.
11:07:43 >> As long as you're in them and not on the wall.
11:07:46 >> That's true. As long as they're not at the post
11:07:48 >> Good.
11:07:49 You can go and have dinner at Bern's.
11:07:54 Can't take him though.
11:07:55 Take your boyfriend -- I'm sorry.
11:07:57 [ Laughter ]
11:07:58 >> Take whoever you would like.
11:08:00 This is for you and your family.
11:08:02 And on behalf of everyone involved here, we greatly
11:08:06 appreciate what you do and certainly these folks over
11:08:09 here know you personally.
11:08:10 I don't know you that well, but congratulations. And
11:08:13 we appreciate what you do for this community.
11:08:15 >> Thank you.
11:08:17 >>GWEN MILLER: It's your turn now.
11:08:19 >> First of all, I'd like to thank City Council, Chief,
11:08:24 and all of the great gifts and thank you for the
11:08:27 Obviously, we don't do it for the recognition.
11:08:29 We do it because we love the City of Tampa and the job
11:08:32 that we do.
11:08:33 I want to recognize my family, my husband, Lieutenant
11:08:37 Bobby Holder with the Tampa Police Department, my
11:08:39 mother, Shirley Woods, my sister Sonia Shepherd from
11:08:42 the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office.
11:08:44 And my brother-in-law Lieutenant Shepherd from the
11:08:47 Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office.
11:08:48 So we kept it all in the family.
11:08:50 And my mother has prayed for us our entire career.
11:08:53 I think that's what has kept us safe throughout the
11:08:56 So thank you for your recognition.
11:08:59 [ Applause ]
11:09:30 >> Take up item two at this time.
11:09:33 This is the discussion relative to drought-tolerant and
11:09:40 sustainable plants.
11:09:41 Initiated by councilor Mulhern and Saul-Sena.
11:09:51 I don't know if they want to wait for the presentation
11:09:56 >> Good morning, City Council.
11:09:58 Karen Palus, Parks and Recreation Director.
11:10:00 I am here this morning to talk about our sustainability
11:10:03 report that was requested by Council regarding a
11:10:07 Florida-friendly plant list as well as any information
11:10:10 regarding some machinery and uses within our park
11:10:14 I have provided Council a copy of, just an overall
11:10:18 quick report that outlines what I will talk briefly
11:10:22 about this morning.
11:10:22 The next item is an overall draft, the list of the
11:10:26 under faced plant list that goes into Florida-friendly
11:10:32 And I also brought a Power Point.
11:10:34 It's very similar to the one you have seen back in June
11:10:37 that we presented regarding Florida-friendly yards.
11:10:40 So this is similar, if you feel there's a need for that
11:10:43 additional information, be happy to go into that as
11:10:45 It is available to you, on the system.
11:10:48 So, let me just share with you first, regarding our
11:10:52 ability within parks and recreation.
11:10:54 We have been green before green was cool.
11:10:56 We like to say that and we are very excited about the
11:10:59 progress that we are making within our facility.
11:11:02 We are very committed to the Florida-friendly concepts.
11:11:06 We work very diligently with that within our parks.
11:11:12 However, we have multiple different facilities and they
11:11:14 have multiple different uses, so we need to make sure
11:11:18 it is the right plant, right place in those locations.
11:11:21 So we work throughout that.
11:11:22 On the beginning phases all the way through our
11:11:25 operations and maintenance.
11:11:26 I want to share with you the list you have today.
11:11:28 This is not a list that's just a city of Tampa list.
11:11:31 This is something being generated for Hillsborough
11:11:32 County, the entire area.
11:11:34 So it's again another place about the right plant,
11:11:37 right place.
11:11:38 For our climate, what works here.
11:11:40 Plants that are Florida-friendly, that work here, may
11:11:43 not work in our northern climate or in our southern
11:11:46 So this is very geared to just the Hillsborough County
11:11:49 Our natural resource team, and I have been joined by
11:11:52 project planning staff and also natural resources,
11:11:55 Cathy Beck is here, our supervisor and David Flanagan,
11:11:58 one of our landscape architects.
11:12:01 They both are working very closely with Hillsborough
11:12:04 County's Extension Office, with our Southwest Florida
11:12:07 Water Management District.
11:12:09 And what they consider the ice sis, Florida Institute
11:12:14 for Food and Agricultural Services.
11:12:16 So a whole conglomerate working together on this
11:12:19 overall list that would be a guide and recommendation
11:12:21 for organizations like ourselves to use and to share
11:12:23 within the community.
11:12:24 So that's the list that you see there.
11:12:26 This is a dynamic list.
11:12:28 In fact, after we printed it yesterday, Cathy got an
11:12:32 email and said here is some more information, add any
11:12:35 additions or deletions or additional comments.
11:12:38 So it is something that will continue.
11:12:40 It is not a list that says okay, here it is.
11:12:42 And it is in perpetuity forever.
11:12:45 It will be updated on a regular basis.
11:12:48 So you have that latest draft and we will continue to
11:12:51 share that.
11:12:52 Once they have made a final decision on what the
11:12:55 guide's going to be officially within, I think within
11:12:57 the next month or so, probably right after the first of
11:12:59 the year, we will bring that before Council and you can
11:13:02 adopt that as a guide and recommendations for the City
11:13:04 Council, or City of Tampa regarding our
11:13:06 Florida-friendly plant list.
11:13:07 So we will have that four.
11:13:09 But it is a pretty lengthy list and goes through all
11:13:11 the details and lays out the region, the natives, type,
11:13:15 species and comments and then photos will be available.
11:13:18 And this is an item that will eventually be available
11:13:22 on line for folks to pull up and look as they start
11:13:24 their yards or want to get more information on what's
11:13:28 Florida-friendly for the Hillsborough County area.
11:13:30 Any questions regarding the plant list?
11:13:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council Mulhern and Saul-Sena.
11:13:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
11:13:39 Thanks, Karen.
11:13:40 I'm just getting this now, so I haven't had a chance to
11:13:43 look at it.
11:13:44 So I will be looking at it.
11:13:46 Can you -- you speak really fast.
11:13:48 And I caught the ISIS part.
11:13:51 But -- I want to write on the plant list.
11:13:54 Who came up with this Florida-friendly plant list?
11:13:58 >> We are right now working with our Land Development
11:14:01 Our group.
11:14:02 As far as the form based codes and utilizing this list.
11:14:05 But what we have got is, it is the tree and landscape
11:14:08 advisory committee.
11:14:09 It is official name.
11:14:10 It is in my memo I shared with you.
11:14:11 And it has, it is the university of Florida institute
11:14:14 for food and agricultural services.
11:14:17 They call it ISIS.
11:14:19 Again, that group is working with Hillsborough County,
11:14:21 City of Tampa and the Southwest Florida Water
11:14:22 Management District.
11:14:24 That's outlined again in that memo, the second
11:14:28 >>MARY MULHERN: The list, who compiled the list?
11:14:30 You compiled, our Parks Department, or that advisory
11:14:35 >> That advise vary group through input in the staff,
11:14:38 in our project planning section as well as their staff
11:14:41 and their particular organizations, to come up with an
11:14:44 unified list that everybody could utilize.
11:14:48 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:14:49 I'm going to look it over.
11:14:50 It's huge and it is great.
11:14:51 But I do want to caution, and this is something that I
11:14:56 learned through all the community gardening meetings
11:15:00 and discussions I have been having with people over the
11:15:03 last year.
11:15:03 But, ISIS is not committed to organic or necessarily
11:15:10 sustainable agriculture.
11:15:12 They're funded a lot by the, by the -- big agra
11:15:18 business, especially by the fertilizer industry.
11:15:21 And I think that we have to be careful, not that we
11:15:25 shouldn't listen to them and get their input.
11:15:28 But that there needs to be some balance to that.
11:15:32 We are getting, and hopefully, I'm sure our Parks
11:15:34 Department, I know, is committed and as you have said,
11:15:38 to that.
11:15:39 But I'm just -- whenever I hear about them, I get a
11:15:43 little bit leery of that.
11:15:45 It even goes as far as the Hillsborough County
11:15:48 extension service, which is really great and really
11:15:50 helpful, but where the organic isn't necessarily the
11:15:55 way that they're going.
11:15:57 Or necessarily sustainable.
11:15:59 So I just want us to be a little cautious about it.
11:16:02 I want to thank you for all this work.
11:16:04 I think it is fantastic and I'm just looking forward to
11:16:08 looking at it and reading it.
11:16:09 And I just had a couple, and also your cover memo, I
11:16:15 haven't had a chance to read this.
11:16:16 But I had a couple questions.
11:16:18 And I do of course understand that you're -- every park
11:16:23 and every piece of greenery you have is different and
11:16:25 has to be treated differently.
11:16:27 But, what brought my questions up were when, I didn't
11:16:34 feel like I got a clear answer from Steve Daignault
11:16:38 when we were asked to approve a contract for some sod.
11:16:43 And I'm not sure -- way need to know for sure is that
11:16:50 our priority with sod is to use not St. Augustine and
11:16:57 not the big water-using ones, and to be moving toward
11:17:02 the Bermuda.
11:17:03 And whatever the other ones are.
11:17:05 Just wondering, are we doing that?
11:17:07 Do we have a commitment to do that?
11:17:09 >> We are within our park specifically, where
11:17:12 Again, Curtis Hixon is a good practice.
11:17:16 Bermuda grass going in there.
11:17:18 Fairly drought tolerant.
11:17:20 Also one that can handle a lot of use and such which
11:17:23 that park will be getting.
11:17:24 Very, very soon.
11:17:25 So we look at that.
11:17:26 Again, as I mentioned, right plant, right place, right
11:17:29 turf, right place.
11:17:30 Depending on what those uses are going to be and what's
11:17:32 entailed in the volume of use, and how we can continue
11:17:36 to be very water conscious in the type of turf and
11:17:40 planting material we are utilizing.
11:17:43 >>MARY MULHERN: That's good to hear.
11:17:44 I guess this is a question maybe for our discussion,
11:17:48 but also for you.
11:17:51 As you said, you were a-- green before green was green.
11:17:54 I like that.
11:17:55 But that, your practice and your principles are for
11:17:59 sustainable design and Florida-friendly landscape.
11:18:03 And my question for us is if we can turn some of this
11:18:08 into policy, because you are, you know, when we hear
11:18:12 from land development and zoning and all the other
11:18:17 departments, and they're doing projects, they're not
11:18:20 necessarily getting the benefit.
11:18:23 I mean, you are not necessarily involved, especially
11:18:28 the early stages of planning for any kind of
11:18:30 development, and a lot of the changes.
11:18:33 So, I'm thinking maybe if we could write some, you
11:18:38 know, policy, because I don't know -- I guess the
11:18:42 form-based coding may be the place to do that.
11:18:48 To write into that, you know, to use the most
11:18:53 drought-tolerant, the most sustainable.
11:18:56 And I'm concerned too because we -- those can be policy
11:19:07 questions and I know, I haven't been involved or
11:19:12 notified of what's been going on.
11:19:14 I only hear like in the tribune, I heard about the fact
11:19:17 that there was a community gardening ordinance being
11:19:23 And I had to get in touch with our legal department and
11:19:27 with Thom Snelling to work with them because, a lot of
11:19:31 this is new and I'm doing a lot of research on it.
11:19:34 And I know that Linda for years has been involved in
11:19:37 all these things.
11:19:38 And I want Council to be involved in making, you know,
11:19:45 making these policy changes and hearing about them, and
11:19:49 not just coming to us at a text amendment cycle and we
11:19:53 are going to be asked to, to just go with whatever is
11:20:00 >> Let me see if I can address a couple things early
11:20:03 And that information.
11:20:05 We are involved at the beginning of a lot of the
11:20:08 development processes.
11:20:09 Cathy and her team do the review.
11:20:11 We regrew on grand trees, look over the landscape code
11:20:15 for chapter 13 as well.
11:20:17 And we do have a seat at the table when they're going
11:20:20 through the review processes, when they're going
11:20:22 through, like with the land development, form based
11:20:25 Cathy and her team are at the table as well as some of
11:20:29 our other staff, depending on where they are and what's
11:20:35 We have a dynamic supervisor who knows her stuff and
11:20:38 then some out there, and is really the go-to person
11:20:42 with most of the land development information that
11:20:43 they're seeking from our side of things.
11:20:45 >> Well, I think one of the reasons I brought up
11:20:51 plants, was because we -- in all of our zoning
11:20:54 meetings, we hear about trees and grand trees and
11:20:56 that's it.
11:20:57 We are basically talking about oak trees.
11:21:03 And I never, unless we bring it up, and ask for, you
11:21:07 know, more impervious surface or more green or
11:21:10 whatever, I don't hear a lot of -- I don't think we
11:21:16 have got a lot of requirements in our policy that would
11:21:19 encourage people to go toward, you know, I mean, land
11:21:24 development and landscape and parks can sit there and
11:21:28 tell some developer that they should be putting in
11:21:30 green, but if we don't have it written into our code,
11:21:33 it doesn't have to happen.
11:21:35 And I don't see it happening.
11:21:37 So, I guess -- these are just some things that I'm
11:21:41 thinking about, I'd like to see us pursue.
11:21:44 I would love to work with you on any of this.
11:21:47 And I hope we can go forward with doing that, because I
11:21:53 think, you know, you can have principles and practices,
11:21:55 but there's no teeth if it's not part of the policy.
11:22:00 And then the other question I had -- this related to
11:22:08 the one you already answered about who this committee
11:22:10 is who came up with the list.
11:22:12 But, the natural resource staff members, you're talking
11:22:18 about your staff members.
11:22:20 >> Yes.
11:22:21 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, thanks a lot.
11:22:22 I really appreciate this.
11:22:24 A lot of information.
11:22:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmen Saul-Sena?
11:22:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you so much for coming to us
11:22:30 with this list today.
11:22:32 Yesterday I attended a three-hour meeting about
11:22:35 And I was very pleased that at the end of it the county
11:22:38 commission gave direction to their EPC staff to not use
11:22:42 nitrogen laden fertilizer in the summer because of its
11:22:45 negative impact on waterways, causing red tide and
11:22:48 algae blooms.
11:22:49 And I just wondered if, as leaders in the community, if
11:22:54 we will, if we are already or, now that we know this,
11:22:58 in the future we will suspend using nitrogen ladened
11:23:03 fertilizers in the summer months and use time released
11:23:06 ones in the spring and or fall or not fertilize in the
11:23:12 Do you know our policy?
11:23:13 >> We have our fertilizer schedules.
11:23:15 I can go back through and tell you exactly what
11:23:18 products we are using.
11:23:19 I know when we had the discussions about gar few and
11:23:22 all that we weren't using any of that product.
11:23:25 When the president asked us, that's why our fields are
11:23:28 more weedy because of some it others.
11:23:30 We tolerate more weeds for that person.
11:23:33 I can go over exactly what we are using and give you
11:23:35 that information.
11:23:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That would be great, because I feel
11:23:38 like as the city, we can be leaders.
11:23:41 And I don't believe we do now mandate that anybody use
11:23:45 Florida-friendly materials.
11:23:46 The good thing is because of the recognition ever
11:23:48 watering restraints and con strains, they're developing
11:23:51 more plants that are drought-tolerant.
11:23:53 So it is becoming easier to choose really attractive
11:23:56 plants that are Florida-friendly.
11:23:57 But, I'm, I see our zoning folks here, which is great.
11:24:03 Has the administration or Council ever considered a
11:24:06 policy encouraging, particularly commercial folks, to
11:24:10 use Florida-friendly plant material?
11:24:15 >> I'm not sure on my end, Cathy, do you remember
11:24:20 I know we have recommended.
11:24:22 But no teeth.
11:24:24 >> This may be a Cathy Coyle.
11:24:33 >>CATHERINE COYLE: To date, they're correct.
11:24:34 This has been a recommendation through our plans
11:24:36 We are looking as we go into unified land development
11:24:39 code and looking through form based code, specifically
11:24:42 in Seminole heights at potentially requiring
11:24:45 drought-tolerant plants and Florida-friendly.
11:24:47 Something we are working on right now.
11:24:48 As Karen mentioned, this list has also been reviewed by
11:24:51 Land Development Coordination and we have been
11:24:53 assisting in that effort as well to try to get the best
11:24:56 possible lift, most updated information for the new
11:24:59 code and new process.
11:25:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Great.
11:25:01 Thank you.
11:25:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
11:25:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I pass.
11:25:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other question?
11:25:09 Anything else?
11:25:10 Okay, we will take public comment then.
11:25:12 Anyone from the public wish to address Council on this
11:25:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: One last question.
11:25:21 I understand that we had a new rec center proposal that
11:25:24 went out and the specs initially didn't include any,
11:25:28 any requirements that it be, not LEED certified
11:25:31 specifically, but sustainable, you know, use recycled
11:25:37 The kind of things you would do if building a LEED
11:25:40 building, although we are not requiring certification.
11:25:42 Then somebody sort of complained about it, and then
11:25:44 they added that.
11:25:46 So I just wondered, as a sort of policy rule, when you
11:25:51 go out with request for proposals for new facilities,
11:25:54 do you say that they need to be sustainable?
11:25:56 >> We have been working towards that, with David bond's
11:25:59 Again, not in the certified capacity, but looking at
11:26:03 satisfied capacity and trying to meet those levels as
11:26:05 well in regards to that.
11:26:06 So that is something that is continuing in our die lag.
11:26:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But it is not necessarily in specs
11:26:12 right now that are going out for proposals?
11:26:15 >> Some of that information is.
11:26:16 Not all of it is.
11:26:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Will David be a better person to
11:26:21 >> Yes.
11:26:21 Because he has all the particulars on how that works
11:26:23 within his guidelines and such for construction
11:26:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank, because it is something
11:26:29 Council has been, very, promoting.
11:26:31 And we were told that the administration's doing this.
11:26:34 >> We are.
11:26:35 We are striving for that.
11:26:36 I know we worked open that real hard with our new Tampa
11:26:39 facility, that go beyond what we had said initially, to
11:26:42 get to that silver level we have been shooting for.
11:26:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:26:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council many Caetano, then Mulhern.
11:26:51 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: As far as the machinery goes, is
11:26:53 this strictly for use by the city?
11:26:55 Or are you talking about everybody that's out there
11:26:58 cutting grass or blowing leaves?
11:27:02 >> When I spoke to you in the sustainability report,
11:27:04 specifically with the city within parks and recreation
11:27:06 is doing.
11:27:06 And our particular operations.
11:27:08 So any equipment that we purchase in such, we work
11:27:11 towards that green technology.
11:27:12 And we have been very successful in doing so.
11:27:14 We have also done through our optimization process,
11:27:18 able to reduce our equipment level by 35%.
11:27:49 >> I thought we were done, but no, I keep thinking of
11:28:50 more questions.
11:28:50 I'm wondering, are you working at all on the tree list?
11:28:56 I mean, the tree ordinance and making any changes to
11:29:03 >> We had done some changes a while back.
11:29:05 It's been a couple years now.
11:29:06 And we continue to look at the tree and updates.
11:29:10 Cathy, have we done anything recently?
11:29:15 Still in the form based.
11:29:17 >>MARY MULHERN: I really, especially after that
11:29:19 wonderful study that the UF and USF did on the tree
11:29:23 canopy and we found out how, you know, the invasive
11:29:27 trees and -- I'm wondering, it seems like we should
11:29:33 have a goal of you know, number one, just increasing
11:29:37 the number of trees that we have.
11:29:39 For carbon sequestration.
11:29:42 And I know, you know, we are probably, I don't know,
11:29:46 Cathy Coyle might know this when she speaks later.
11:29:51 Where we are with our baseline on our carbon output,
11:29:54 which we have to do to be able to figure out what our
11:29:56 goals are to reduce that.
11:29:58 But we know if we plant more trees, I'm just wondering
11:30:03 if that is something that we are going to be hearing
11:30:06 Let me ask all my tree questions at once.
11:30:09 Whoever wants to answer them can.
11:30:10 I have also heard from a lot of people about -- we
11:30:18 really need some updating on which trees are protected
11:30:22 and which aren't.
11:30:23 And which are considered invasive.
11:30:26 And I remember when we -- when we had the report from
11:30:30 the universities, and Terry from -- suddenly blanking
11:30:37 But he said, you know, really if we could do some kind
11:30:41 of education program about the Brazilian peppers and
11:30:46 have people pull that and plant something.
11:30:47 And if we could somehow support that, I don't know if,
11:30:51 you know, I know we don't have any money, but if there
11:30:54 could be some kind of education, some kind of creative
11:30:56 way to get people to do that.
11:30:58 I think that that would be awesome.
11:31:02 And you know, I just think there's so much that we
11:31:06 could be doing to reduce our carbon output, just
11:31:10 through planting.
11:31:12 And I just, you know, want to know where we are going
11:31:14 with that, if we are going anywhere.
11:31:16 If there are plans.
11:31:17 And what follow-up there is to that fantastic study
11:31:21 they did for us.
11:31:22 >> Well, the good news is, there's been tremendous
11:31:26 We have from the analysis, we did create a committee, a
11:31:30 working group within the community that had business
11:31:32 members as well as neighborhood leaders and folks in
11:31:37 the industry to talk about what are the next steps?
11:31:39 What really do we need to do within the community to
11:31:42 one, that piece of education really get folks out and
11:31:45 understanding, what they need to be doing, what they
11:31:47 need to look for.
11:31:48 Again, the -- pull a pepper, plant an oak.
11:31:53 So that's actually one of our strategies on there,
11:31:55 things we'd like to see move forward.
11:31:57 We are looking at more educational opportunity and
11:31:59 trying to focus on based on the analysis, focus on
11:32:03 neighborhoods where we really need to improve the tree
11:32:05 population in those areas.
11:32:07 And I think councilmember Miranda had brought it up
11:32:10 about his particular neighborhoods and those areas that
11:32:13 aren't as treed and canopied as we'd like to see.
11:32:17 Again, right tree, right place.
11:32:19 I say that, right tree, right place within the
11:32:23 neighborhood and the community.
11:32:24 But making that focus and taking a particular
11:32:26 neighborhood or area that may not have had the canopy
11:32:30 and some of our other portions of our community,
11:32:33 educating them so we can work with them to use our
11:32:35 community tree program and plant those trees and get
11:32:38 them caring for them and finding out how important
11:32:42 those trees are to them and their community.
11:32:44 >> I'd love to see us actually have something come out
11:32:47 about the peppers.
11:32:51 >> Well, it is one of our strategies that came out of
11:32:53 that working group.
11:32:54 So we are taking that information now and trying to put
11:32:56 that into process and practice within our operation
11:33:00 along with that educational component.
11:33:03 >> Great.
11:33:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:33:04 Move now to item 3.
11:33:06 Our second workshop for this morning.
11:33:09 This is on the July 2009 text amendment cycle.
11:33:24 >> Good morning, Catherine Coyle, land development.
11:33:31 Passing out additional copies in case you didn't have
11:33:33 yours with you for some reason.
11:33:44 >> If I could, the petitioner for the privately
11:33:47 initiated amendment on page 24, for alcoholic
11:33:51 beverages, it says David Mechanik and Pollack is also
11:33:54 with that firm and is representing that particular
11:33:59 They have identified to me that they would be looking
11:34:02 to potentially continue that request.
11:34:06 I'll let her speak to that just to clear that out of
11:34:08 the way before we get started.
11:34:17 >> Good morning.
11:34:19 Ann Pollack, 305 South Boulevard.
11:34:24 We have a request in here that we are looking to
11:34:29 We are trying to get some final approval from our
11:34:31 client as to how to move forward with this.
11:34:33 There's been a lot of opposition to what we have
11:34:37 requested, and part of our plan was to work with the
11:34:40 city as they move forward and modify their special use
11:34:44 procedures, so that what we are looking to do can
11:34:48 somehow maybe be melded in with what the city does.
11:34:52 And the city's process has unfortunately taken much
11:34:55 longer than we had expected.
11:34:57 And so, as a result, we are still kind of in the same
11:35:00 position we were at the last cycle.
11:35:04 So, we were hoping if it's possible, maybe to move
11:35:08 this, get this continued to the January workshop, just
11:35:12 so it is not pushed out too far and by that time, we
11:35:16 will have, I will know exactly what the plan is to do
11:35:22 with this.
11:35:23 Unfortunately, we just don't have that decision today.
11:35:26 I had discussed this with Julia Cole and Cathy Coyle
11:35:33 and they suggested maybe the better ideal is continue
11:35:37 to the January cycle.
11:35:39 But we would just like to keep this active and that's,
11:35:46 we would request the continuance as quickly as
11:35:48 possible, but you know, if you would agree to that.
11:35:58 >> Excuse me, which one are we discussing?
11:36:01 >> The one listed page 24.
11:36:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Karen, thank you.
11:36:14 Just procedurally, where is Cathy or Julia?
11:36:19 We called it the July 2009 text amendment cycle.
11:36:24 >> Correct.
11:36:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is this the first time that Council
11:36:26 has discussed this cycle?
11:36:29 This particular cycle?
11:36:31 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That's correct.
11:36:32 I tried for an earlier workshop and this was the
11:36:35 workshop that we got.
11:36:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And then as this cycle progresses,
11:36:39 what's the schedule?
11:36:42 >> I have spoken with the Planning Commission and
11:36:44 unfortunately, due to the timing of this workshop, it
11:36:47 has to go forward in the February hearing for the
11:36:50 Planning Commission.
11:36:51 Then we are anticipating coming back that second night,
11:36:55 second Thursday evening in February, for first reading.
11:36:58 And the second reading at the end of February.
11:37:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
11:37:02 And so, Ann's suggestion about sort of letting this
11:37:08 linger until January, if there's discussions going on,
11:37:14 what staff's response to that?
11:37:16 >> If you were to continue it to the January workshop
11:37:18 to discuss, it will still go within the January cycle.
11:37:22 Because we'd already be moving forward to the Planning
11:37:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The goal is leave this meeting today
11:37:28 and transmit.
11:37:29 >> Transmit whatever changes or that Council feels fit.
11:37:34 Or none if you don't want any.
11:37:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In other words, if we were going to
11:37:37 keep it in the batch, we would need to transmit it,
11:37:40 even though there seems to be some dispute about it?
11:37:45 >> Correct.
11:37:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Probably have a hard time
11:37:48 transmitting it if we haven't -- I mean, at least
11:37:52 discussed the issues.
11:37:53 So I think, my put us in a hard place.
11:37:56 I don't know.
11:37:57 All right.
11:37:58 Let's see how that chugs along.
11:38:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions from Council?
11:38:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Are we going to go through these?
11:38:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Going to continue this one.
11:38:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, they're requesting the
11:38:17 continuance on this one to January, that's what the
11:38:20 request is.
11:38:22 >> And if it doesn't work into the January workshop,
11:38:25 but I think that essentially would put it in the next
11:38:27 cycle anyway.
11:38:28 It would just move it up to have a quicker discussion.
11:38:31 Which we'd like to do if we get to that, have the full
11:38:34 discussion with the public and you.
11:38:36 And we do want to have it as soon as possible.
11:38:40 We just would like it continued from today.
11:38:42 >> All right.
11:38:43 I'll go ahead and make that motion to pull it out of
11:38:46 this cycle.
11:38:51 Are you speaking to this issue?
11:38:52 >> I just want to speak to this issue.
11:38:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's not the process.
11:38:57 This is a workshop, my understanding we can't take any
11:39:00 action until we hear from the public.
11:39:01 My intent was to move through this, with all these, get
11:39:05 everything on the record and then allow the public to
11:39:08 speak to what I want to speak to.
11:39:09 >> I just want to point out, might be a little -- in
11:39:12 the past when you guys have addressed this, we have
11:39:16 broke out even issue.
11:39:19 I did want to point out.
11:39:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then what is our rules?
11:39:22 We need to go back to that.
11:39:24 I was trying to follow the rules we set for workshops.
11:39:30 >> In terms of the continuance, you would probably want
11:39:33 the public to hear.
11:39:35 This workshop is set as one item.
11:39:41 It's Council's discretion whether you want to take it
11:39:44 item by item by item and allow public or do it in its
11:39:48 It is Council's discretion.
11:39:51 It is listed as a 11:15 workshop to discuss the text
11:39:56 amendment cycle.
11:40:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: For the ease ever clarity for all of
11:40:02 us, I'd like to take it item by item.
11:40:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll second that.
11:40:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
11:40:12 >> Council, with regards to miss Pollock's issue, in
11:40:16 terms of January, you are having a 10:30 workshop to
11:40:19 discuss alcoholic license beverage license rules.
11:40:23 Perhaps it would be appropriate to join that item,
11:40:27 because it is somewhat related.
11:40:29 So when the time comes to do that, 10:30 on the 28th,
11:40:33 might be an appropriate time.
11:40:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Want to speak to that?
11:40:38 >> Spencer Kass, representing the Virginia park
11:40:40 neighborhood association.
11:40:41 I feel comfortable speaking on this.
11:40:43 As a petitioner said, everybody does object to this.
11:40:46 However, if it's marked final for January, this will be
11:40:49 the last time the petitioner agrees to continue,
11:40:51 because it's already been continued once before.
11:40:53 We have no objections to that.
11:40:55 So, we would just ask the Council mark this -- it will
11:40:58 be the final time.
11:40:59 I ran it by the petitioner.
11:41:00 I don't think they'd have an objection to that.
11:41:03 Thank you.
11:41:08 >> That would be fine.
11:41:09 We expect to know one way or the other how we, if we
11:41:12 want to, you know, move forward or however by that.
11:41:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public want to
11:41:20 speak to this item?
11:41:20 So we can take action now.
11:41:22 Been moved and second that we move it to the.
11:41:27 >>MARY MULHERN: January 28th.
11:41:27 >> I think Saul-Sena moved.
11:41:30 Motion and second?
11:41:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Clarify, the motion would be to
11:41:35 actually continue it for discussion purposes to the
11:41:39 January workshop, but actually pull this item out of
11:41:43 this cycle and move it into the next cycle.
11:41:46 This is David Mechanik alcoholic beverages, page 24
11:41:55 >> Privately initiated text amendment on alcoholic
11:41:58 Thank you.
11:41:59 >> Second.
11:42:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: In bold print on this doubt.
11:42:03 Dated December 7th.
11:42:05 Been moved and second.
11:42:06 All in favor signify by saying aye.
11:42:09 [ Motion carried ]
11:42:12 >> Thank you, Council.
11:42:14 Going back to the overall document, pages 2 through
11:42:20 eight, they were amendments that had motions by City
11:42:23 I included each motion at the top of each section.
11:42:28 As it pertained to that motion.
11:42:30 The first one is the ground level activation and the
11:42:32 CDB and the Channel District.
11:42:34 Council's motion was to include provision to activate
11:42:40 the ground level in ground level and CDBG, 27, 441 on
11:42:53 page two.
11:42:53 This is where the design standards for Franklin Street
11:42:57 district exist.
11:42:58 This is the only district in downtown where there are
11:43:01 requirements for ground floor uses.
11:43:03 Other than generic use that's in the building or open
11:43:09 These are very specific.
11:43:13 What we did is we modified that it is not just Franklin
11:43:16 It also includes all other streets.
11:43:19 So that takes care of the all other street provision.
11:43:22 We included an purpose and intent section, that it is
11:43:25 the further intent of the CDBG that this, all of the
11:43:30 streets be activated with pedestrian oriented and
11:43:33 ground level uses, such as residential, art displays.
11:43:37 Then we took number two and three, which were related
11:43:41 specifically to the Franklin Street district and then
11:43:43 the retail district, which is within that overall
11:43:47 Clarified that language.
11:43:50 Cleaned that up.
11:43:50 And then inserted number four, on page four, which was
11:43:55 related to all other streets.
11:43:57 Now, if you look just to give you the comparison, on
11:44:02 page two, it is specifically, specifically within the
11:44:09 Franklin street district on page two and three.
11:44:11 It is a retail restaurant use, or personal services
11:44:16 that has allowed on that ground floor within the
11:44:19 Franklin Street retail district.
11:44:20 That is the overall plan for downtown, that that
11:44:25 particular corridor is the retail corridor.
11:44:28 As you can see with restaurants and retail on that
11:44:31 We have broadened it slightly through the rest of the
11:44:33 streets, basically because the motion was simply
11:44:37 activation for all streets.
11:44:38 We included restaurants -- I'm sorry, residential, art
11:44:43 displays, commercial or office uses.
11:44:45 So any one of those types of uses could then bring
11:44:49 color and vibrancy to the ground floor.
11:44:53 We included also the same language that was in the
11:44:57 retail district, that awnings and canopies shall be
11:45:02 included over the length of those particular uses.
11:45:04 And then any features, such as mechanical storage or
11:45:08 other building --
11:45:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Cathy, any objections from the
11:45:13 community on what you have done?
11:45:17 >> I believe Karen is here to clarify the changes.
11:45:21 We will have to discuss that.
11:45:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We have limited time.
11:45:26 >> That language is to follow the design guidelines and
11:45:28 provide sufficient ventilation.
11:45:31 Channel District language just really quickly is at the
11:45:34 bottom of page four.
11:45:35 That is 27.457.
11:45:38 We already had language in there that when providing
11:45:40 for neighborhood serving commercial uses, that it needs
11:45:43 to be at the ground floor and second and third floor
11:45:47 could extend for a specific user.
11:45:49 We changed to say all developments.
11:45:51 We included residential, office and neighborhoods
11:45:53 serving commercial uses, because we have instances
11:45:55 where there are strictly residential buildings, and
11:46:00 could be in some walk-up buildings.
11:46:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: How about parking garages?
11:46:08 >> Not on Franklin.
11:46:10 >> They're not allowed on Franklin.
11:46:12 Mean in the Channel District?
11:46:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, the Channel District.
11:46:15 >> The Channel District, all the ground floors of all
11:46:19 buildings in the Channel District have to be one of
11:46:22 these uses.
11:46:23 There's also other building design standards.
11:46:25 Right now, I'm supposing what your question really
11:46:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If somebody builds a freestanding
11:46:32 parking garage.
11:46:33 >> The ground floor would need to have some other use
11:46:36 incorporated on the ground floor as well.
11:46:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's a new requirement?
11:46:40 >> Correct.
11:46:40 Where there are entrances into that parking garage, or
11:46:44 ventilation or storage areas, have to be minimized by
11:46:46 the other building design standards we have.
11:46:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena?
11:46:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm so happy to see this.
11:46:52 I wish we had had this years and years ago.
11:46:56 I just wanted to ask, our new urban design person
11:46:59 Michael la han take a look on this?
11:47:01 >> Yes, he was on the list for review.
11:47:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Good.
11:47:05 Well, in the first -- I guess this is the first
11:47:08 I just want to make sure that our downtown property
11:47:11 owners are plugged into this.
11:47:13 This is great.
11:47:14 I can think of a half dozen buildings that would be so
11:47:16 much better if these rules had been -- make that two
11:47:21 Will these rules apply -- if somebody had gotten a
11:47:26 rezoning four years ago with -- with a plan that's less
11:47:31 inspired than this.
11:47:32 And they haven't gone for permitting yet and they come
11:47:35 up next year for permitting, will they have to abide by
11:47:38 these new rules?
11:47:40 >> Four years ago?
11:47:41 >> Yes.
11:47:46 >> We have a time limit of five years.
11:47:48 And then potentially a two year extension based on
11:47:51 senate bill 360.
11:47:53 So you're looking at potentially up to 7.
11:47:56 >> Can we do anything about that?
11:47:58 >> No.
11:47:59 >> When you grant that rezoning, you're granting them
11:48:02 exactly what's on that plan.
11:48:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Where's the five years come from?
11:48:07 >> It is in the code.
11:48:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Then we could change it.
11:48:10 >> You could potentially, but I don't know legally if
11:48:12 you want to.
11:48:13 >> The question, we have in our code right now for
11:48:15 planned development approval, that there's in essence
11:48:17 like a five year vesting on the planned unit
11:48:22 Then after that, there's some question as to what you
11:48:24 in fact have received through that PD process and what
11:48:27 is still up for re-review.
11:48:30 If that's something you would like us to analyze and
11:48:32 make --
11:48:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can we put that in here?
11:48:36 >> No.
11:48:36 That would be requiring some time and thought as to how
11:48:40 you handle that issue.
11:48:41 And it is not appropriate in this cycle.
11:48:44 It hasn't been brought for.
11:48:46 It would have been --
11:48:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But we could direct you now to put
11:48:49 it into the next one?
11:48:50 >> You could direct us to put it in that cycle.
11:48:53 I will tell you though, that's going to take a little
11:48:57 at a time, because you have to be careful what you're
11:48:59 saying on planned developments.
11:49:01 You have heard me say this before.
11:49:02 The positive thing about a planned development, you
11:49:05 know what you're getting at the beginning.
11:49:06 But, you have made some decisions and you're giving a
11:49:09 property rights to somebody through the planned
11:49:11 development process that you have to be very careful
11:49:13 and cognizant as to how you can change that.
11:49:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What if it wasn't a planned
11:49:17 What it was a CDBG one or two.
11:49:20 >> That is true site planning zoning district, it is
11:49:23 the same type of zoning approval.
11:49:25 >> She's asking a different question.
11:49:28 >> If you have an undeveloped prompt or wanting to tear
11:49:30 the building down and never come to City Council for
11:49:32 approval and just want to go to permitting to build,
11:49:35 you have to comply with whatever rule is on the books
11:49:38 at that time.
11:49:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thanks.
11:49:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public want to address
11:49:42 Council on this one?
11:49:47 >> Good morning.
11:49:48 Karen crest, downtown partnership.
11:49:50 We have worked with Cathy on these changes.
11:49:53 Our public round committee has reviewed them.
11:49:56 Just have one minor suggestion.
11:49:59 When they're talking about the intent really is to
11:50:02 provide shade and weather protection.
11:50:03 We think maybe canopies, limiting that to canopies and
11:50:09 awnings might be too prescriptive.
11:50:11 There's other ways to accomplish that.
11:50:13 So we would suggest maybe the language just be changed
11:50:15 to say --
11:50:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Where are you at?
11:50:19 4 D?
11:50:22 >> Yes.
11:50:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can we make a motioning that asking
11:50:25 it be expanded to say or other means to provide shade?
11:50:28 So moved.
11:50:31 >> Second.
11:50:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
11:50:34 All in favor signify by saying aye.
11:50:39 [ MOTION CARRIED ]
11:50:40 >> Thank you.
11:50:41 Page five, Council made a motion back in June that this
11:50:45 character of single-family detached home is maintained
11:50:48 by limiting the number of cars being exposed in a
11:50:51 garage to two questions are.
11:50:53 We already have several sections in the code related to
11:50:55 semi detached, attached and multi-family design.
11:50:59 Within that particular area of the code, we included
11:51:01 single-family detached design standards to address is
11:51:04 the motion.
11:51:05 We noted the purpose is the design, for infill, the
11:51:10 development should be consistent with the general site
11:51:12 plan requirements, the underlying zoning district,
11:51:15 applicability all single-family detached dwellings.
11:51:18 New development of them.
11:51:19 Design requirements, there should be no more than a two
11:51:21 car garage door facing or oriented directly toward the
11:51:24 street right-of-way.
11:51:26 Any other garage door shall face to the interior or
11:51:29 rear of the zoning lot.
11:51:31 And then the enforcement obviously is through the site
11:51:34 plan review at times permitting.
11:51:35 The motion was fairly, fairly broad and I went back and
11:51:40 read through the transcript and what I got from the
11:51:43 intent of the discussion was, it was the two car garage
11:51:46 door facing the front.
11:51:47 You didn't necessarily want ten of them facing the
11:51:50 Not limiting necessarily the number of cars or garages
11:51:53 on the property, especially if someone had a large
11:51:56 But limiting the view of that.
11:51:58 If I was incorrect, please direct me.
11:52:02 But I believe there are people here to speak about this
11:52:04 particular item as well.
11:52:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder?
11:52:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I vaguely remember the discussion I
11:52:11 guess from last summer, and I think I remember the
11:52:13 house that brought the discussion up.
11:52:16 At least I'm in the right ballpark, so to speak.
11:52:20 But anyway, as I read it now though, I'm thinking, I
11:52:26 can picture a lot of sort of larger properties or
11:52:29 larger houses, single-family houses, that might have
11:52:34 like three garage doors.
11:52:37 Now, let me clarify.
11:52:38 I don't have a garage.
11:52:39 I don't have a garage door.
11:52:41 So I don't have a dog in this fight, just wanted to
11:52:45 But I'm just thinking that maybe two might be a little.
11:52:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We can say three.
11:52:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's what I'm thinking.
11:52:53 Some people may have a need for three.
11:52:55 Five seems like a bit extreme.
11:52:57 If you need five, maybe you need a variance or a PD or
11:53:01 something like that.
11:53:01 But three might seem to be more in line with larger
11:53:06 >> We did hold a public information workshop at the end
11:53:08 of October, where we bring this out to everyone.
11:53:11 We hold it in here.
11:53:12 And that was some of the comments from some of the
11:53:14 single-family builders, especially up in new Tampa,
11:53:17 there's a lot of homes with three car garages and a lot
11:53:20 of the newer homes that are larger sometimes have three
11:53:22 as well.
11:53:23 So, it was their comment as well.
11:53:26 They have additional comments probably.
11:53:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
11:53:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern?
11:53:31 >>MARY MULHERN: I was just going to say I have never
11:53:33 seen a three car garage facing -- I have seen three car
11:53:37 garages, but that are facing the street I can't picture
11:53:40 But this they must all be in Joseph's district.
11:53:46 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Some of them have three cars, only
11:53:49 have two doors.
11:53:50 Yet, we have garages that are not facing the street, in
11:53:53 other words, they go inside, they're facing each other
11:53:56 in the driveway.
11:53:57 >> The others aren't limited by this.
11:53:59 It is the ones facing the street.
11:54:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
11:54:06 Anyone from the public?
11:54:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Want to keep it short and sweet.
11:54:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public?
11:54:13 >> It's an unreasonable restriction and there's no
11:54:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Please state your name.
11:54:17 >> Steve Michelini.
11:54:18 I don't have a client on this issue.
11:54:20 It is simply a matter of bad policy.
11:54:22 There's no basis for restricting garage doors.
11:54:25 You have to have a basis.
11:54:26 It can't be just because you don't like it.
11:54:28 If somebody has extra square footage, they have larger
11:54:32 lots, and this is a policy that apparently is being
11:54:34 drafted based on one small area of town.
11:54:36 It has nothing to do with the remainder of the city.
11:54:39 They're extremely large lots, as you already pointed
11:54:43 out, that have the ability to have garage doors that
11:54:45 face any one of a number of directions.
11:54:47 There are a few three car garages in that are
11:54:54 There are not many.
11:54:55 Attractively done.
11:54:55 And what you're doing, you're restricting, say you can
11:55:01 only have two garage doors.
11:55:02 Now you have changed the garage door and made those two
11:55:06 very wide doors to accommodate more than two vehicles.
11:55:08 So now you have affected how you have designed the
11:55:11 structure itself.
11:55:11 I understand where you're coming from.
11:55:15 I understand you don't want things to be massive and
11:55:17 have big garages on properties.
11:55:19 But there's no basis for that.
11:55:20 If you have the property and it's compatible and design
11:55:24 works well, you should be allowed to do it.
11:55:26 Respectfully request you treat this request from the,
11:55:29 going to the Planning Commission.
11:55:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next?
11:55:33 Next speaker?
11:55:37 >> Good morning, City Council.
11:55:39 Gary Brown, President, Sterling Bay Homes.
11:55:41 I am here actually representing the Tampa Bay Builders
11:55:44 And we too don't believe that any design guidelines
11:55:49 should be imposed upon single-family detached homes in
11:55:52 the City of Tampa.
11:55:53 You have always avoided it.
11:55:55 Things work well, I understand there may have been one
11:55:58 potential home that started this conversation.
11:56:01 But, it seems like it's just really not necessary.
11:56:06 Thank you.
11:56:11 >> Representing the Virginia Park Neighborhood
11:56:14 I'll speak for T.H.A.N also.
11:56:16 Everybody else is away on vacation.
11:56:18 From the meeting, we don't want more cars on the
11:56:24 We have a lot of complaints cars on the streets.
11:56:26 Far more than garage doors.
11:56:29 Getting the cars off the streets is what everybody
11:56:34 I mean, people get into fights with people parking on
11:56:38 the street.
11:56:38 Really fights.
11:56:39 So, we'd respectfully ask that this be pulled.
11:56:42 Thank you.
11:56:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council?
11:56:47 Anyone else?
11:56:50 Councilman Caetano?
11:56:56 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What's going to happen in a gated
11:56:58 Can we still control that?
11:57:05 >> In a gated community?
11:57:08 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I'll tell you why.
11:57:09 In Grand Hampton, every family has five cars.
11:57:12 The garage is full of junk, the cars are out in the
11:57:15 You can't walk on the sidewalk.
11:57:16 Because cars are across the sidewalk.
11:57:19 Of course, it is gated.
11:57:21 And there's nobody to police it.
11:57:23 The police don't, don't patrol there.
11:57:26 There is a police man there, but he's paid by the
11:57:31 homeowners association.
11:57:32 >> That's not actually uncommon in other places that
11:57:34 aren't gated, quite frankly.
11:57:36 We have had that issue everywhere in the city.
11:57:38 That the garage is usually full of stuff and peoples,
11:57:42 cars, that's what Spencer was alluding to.
11:57:45 Has nothing to do with whether it is gated or not
11:57:48 It is just design standard for any new single-family
11:57:50 home being built.
11:57:52 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I don't think we should be telling
11:57:54 people how to build their homes, as the gentleman said
11:57:57 from the builders association, maybe 25 years from now
11:58:01 when we have light rail going somewhere, I don't know
11:58:04 where it is going to go, maybe at that point, we can do
11:58:08 But I don't think we should tell builders what to do
11:58:11 with their property.
11:58:12 >> This particular language was directed by Council, so
11:58:15 if you want to pull it, that's completely within your
11:58:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena?
11:58:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think what we are suffering from
11:58:23 is a case of affluence.
11:58:26 Houses that have five vehicles are definitely suffering
11:58:28 from affluen-za.
11:58:31 But, anyway, this is an attempt to not limit the number
11:58:36 of parking, or under the house driveways, but to have
11:58:43 the garage doors not face the street because when
11:58:47 they're open, they're unattractive and it was really an
11:58:50 aesthetic move.
11:58:51 I would be happy to modify it to three.
11:58:53 I certainly think that three facing the street, plus
11:58:56 however many you want facing inwardly or the side
11:58:59 street or back alley.
11:59:01 That should suffice.
11:59:02 So, I'll give it a whirl.
11:59:03 I move that we modify this to allow three garages doors
11:59:09 facing the street.
11:59:10 And not -- and the other verbiage abandon.
11:59:16 >>GWEN MILLER: I make a motion we distract and pull it
11:59:19 from the text amendment.
11:59:20 >> Second.
11:59:27 >> No second to the first motion.
11:59:29 >> I was thinking about seconding, but the other motion
11:59:31 snuck in before I had a chance to consider seconding.
11:59:34 Let me just speak to, ask Cathy one more question.
11:59:41 Cathy, do we see -- I know you're not in permitting per
11:59:48 But do we see many, you know, four-car garages facing
11:59:55 the street, being built?
11:59:58 >> As you said, I'm not in permitting.
12:00:03 But I can say, logistically on the size of lots we
12:00:06 have, even if they're 75 feet wide, it can be difficult
12:00:09 to put four up front.
12:00:11 Usually they might face interior and create an auto
12:00:14 court of some sort.
12:00:15 I am not an expert on construction.
12:00:17 I do site planning.
12:00:19 But, I couldn't speak to what's been coming through
12:00:22 residential permitting.
12:00:23 Our lots are fairly small in a lot of places within the
12:00:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay, thank you.
12:00:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion made by councilmen Mulhern,
12:00:35 a second, strike that language from the text amendment.
12:00:38 All in favor signify by saying aye.
12:00:42 >> Nay.
12:00:44 >> Thank you.
12:00:47 >> I didn't hear what the vote was.
12:00:52 >> The clerk needs to say it if you don't mind.
12:00:56 >> Motion carried with Saul-Sena and Dingfelder voting
12:01:02 >> The next item at the bottom of page five, West Tampa
12:01:08 overlay changes.
12:01:09 Council motioned that on a trial basis, we look within
12:01:11 the West Tampa overlay district to look at testing a
12:01:15 code to deal with the re-use of existing structures.
12:01:19 Change of use issues.
12:01:22 This language was drafted couple years ago.
12:01:26 And we batted around.
12:01:28 The language that is before you is similar to that with
12:01:31 some modifications.
12:01:32 What we are carving out within the West Tampa overlay
12:01:35 district is the business core district.
12:01:37 It is east of Tampania, south of Columbus, west of
12:01:40 Albany and north of Cypress.
12:01:43 It is that core along those corridors you have a lot of
12:01:45 buildings either at zero lot line or built very close
12:01:49 to the parking lines.
12:01:51 Very limited parking.
12:01:52 A lot of those buildings sit vacant for a very long
12:01:55 period of time.
12:01:56 These changes allow potentially up to C end zoning
12:01:59 district type uses, which are neighborhood serving
12:02:02 commercial uses to go in and out of those buildings.
12:02:05 If they occupy medical uses less than 3,000 square
12:02:09 If they are restaurants with less than 100 person okay
12:02:13 pant load.
12:02:13 And then any other, can change in and out without
12:02:17 requiring additional parking spaces.
12:02:19 To give opportunity for some smaller businesses to get
12:02:21 in the door and see if they can actually make it work.
12:02:24 Second revision also classifies any of those parking
12:02:29 spaces that may maneuver within the right-of-way,
12:02:32 they're wholly within the private property and maybe
12:02:34 don't function per today's code, but the parking space
12:02:37 is actually on the property, it may back out into the
12:02:40 street, but the parking space as I said is on the
12:02:43 Those are basically being recognized as being allowed
12:02:46 to remain through this change of use.
12:02:48 And then also recognizing that if there is any
12:02:52 on-street parking marked on the pavement, it also can
12:02:56 remain, doesn't necessarily have to be pulled out,
12:02:58 unless of course transportation goes out and finds it
12:03:00 is creating an unsafe situation and is a detriment to
12:03:05 safety and welfare.
12:03:06 So it is trying to recognize existing conditions and
12:03:09 allow some of that flexibility on a trial basis.
12:03:11 I figure we could let this sit for a couple cycles and
12:03:15 see how it goes.
12:03:16 In addition there's a separate handout.
12:03:20 A supplemental handout for West Tampa district, dealing
12:03:24 with the signage.
12:03:25 There was, there have been some discussions with the
12:03:28 West Tampa overlay folks that the signage could be
12:03:33 tweaked to match the newest sign code, because the old
12:03:37 sign code obviously allowed a ton of signage.
12:03:40 Their overlay had fairly restrictive signage.
12:03:44 I changed most of it to meet 20.5.
12:03:47 I left a provision in there that building signs are
12:03:50 limited to 25 square feet.
12:03:51 I did speak with Spencer Kass.
12:03:56 I believe he can speak to it as well.
12:03:58 It appears the West Tampa overlay committee is now just
12:04:01 fine with basically doing away with the sign standards
12:04:03 in West Tampa and going with the code itself.
12:04:06 Because the code itself is fairly restrictive.
12:04:08 I'll let him speak to that.
12:04:10 But if that is the case and Council motions so we can
12:04:13 actually take the sign regulations outs of West Tampa
12:04:16 completely because the new sign code is actually what
12:04:18 they want apparently.
12:04:20 That is it for the West Tampa provisions, if there's
12:04:22 any questions.
12:04:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Really quickly, you know how we are
12:04:27 trying to develop pedestrian activity on Howard and
12:04:30 Would there be any ability for perpendicular to the
12:04:34 street, pedestrian-oriented signs to be allowed?
12:04:37 By rote, where they won't have to ask for special
12:04:43 >> The signage usually is perpendicular.
12:04:46 They don't run it parallel because you wouldn't be able
12:04:48 to see it.
12:04:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I mean A frame signs or hanging from
12:04:52 the building signs, like if there's a building.
12:04:54 >> Oh, like awning signs?
12:04:56 Those are actually allowed under the sign code.
12:04:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
12:05:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, excuse me just for a minute.
12:05:02 We are past our lunch hour, our rule, we have locked on
12:05:08 to the restaurant for our Christmas function.
12:05:10 What do you want to do.
12:05:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like to quickly going as quickly
12:05:15 as we can.
12:05:17 >> I don't know if that's feasible.
12:05:19 We probably have at least another half hour or more?
12:05:24 >> You also have two privately initiated amendments to
12:05:27 discuss as well.
12:05:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Come back at 1:30?
12:05:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll be here.
12:05:40 >> I have appointments, I can't be back at 1:30.
12:05:43 So you will have four.
12:05:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Are you available, Mr. Caetano?
12:05:50 >>I have to try to move some things around.
12:05:52 I made some appointments.
12:05:54 But I'll try to move around.
12:05:57 >> Cathy, how long would it take us to do the two
12:06:00 privately amended ones?
12:06:02 >> I think both of them, the second one for the
12:06:04 municipal airport, there are no objections.
12:06:07 The airport signed offer on it as well.
12:06:09 I think that's pretty straightforward.
12:06:11 The other ones were Hillsborough County Community
12:06:14 There may be some discussion on your part.
12:06:15 But I think it's pretty straightforward.
12:06:20 >> The fence is going to be a little discussion.
12:06:22 >> Yes, I think there will be some discussion about
12:06:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is on West Tampa.
12:06:26 Let's deal with that one.
12:06:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move the recommendation.
12:06:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to hear from the public.
12:06:31 Public on West Tampa and then we will deal with the two
12:06:34 initiated ones, try to get us out of here.
12:06:37 >> One quick note under four, item two.
12:06:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name for the record.
12:06:44 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Steve Michelini.
12:06:45 Item four, page six, right after where it says
12:06:49 provision 27-246.
12:06:52 And provided that the maneuver does not occur within
12:06:54 the drive lane of Armenia or Howard Avenue.
12:06:59 All of the on-street parking, maneuvers in the
12:07:02 right-of-way on Howard and Armenia, every bit of it.
12:07:03 If you just take that one provision out, then I think
12:07:06 that everything else is fine.
12:07:08 But, all the parallel park and all the parking, angle
12:07:12 parking that backs in the street, it all maneuvers in
12:07:14 the drive lane.
12:07:15 And I know the transportation doesn't like that.
12:07:18 >> Let me clarify.
12:07:19 I think what he's confused on, this parking that
12:07:22 they're talking about maneuvering within the
12:07:24 right-of-way is on-site parking.
12:07:26 On-street parking may remain.
12:07:28 Unless transportation takes it out.
12:07:31 >>STEVE MICHELINI: But even the case you have small
12:07:32 businesses, they can't move the building if it
12:07:34 maneuvers in the right-of-way.
12:07:36 If they're parking, for example, on Howard, you have
12:07:39 parking that backs in the right-of-way.
12:07:42 Part of it is on private property, part is on city
12:07:46 It has to back into the drive lane.
12:07:48 If you leave that in there, you effectively are
12:07:51 removing all their parking, whether it is on street or
12:07:55 partially on street.
12:07:56 I'm just suggesting you take that provision out.
12:08:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We can do that.
12:08:02 Are you done?
12:08:05 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I'm done.
12:08:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public?
12:08:09 >> Spencer Kass representing -- I was at the West Tampa
12:08:13 Christmas party the other night.
12:08:14 They're very grateful to Council and staff for these
12:08:18 They appreciate it.
12:08:19 They are requesting we go under the sign codes the rest
12:08:22 of the city is governed by.
12:08:24 You're going to see even in the January cycle that they
12:08:26 are embracing businesses, they want people to have an
12:08:29 opportunity, small businesses to open.
12:08:31 They want to do as much as possible.
12:08:32 They want the streets activated.
12:08:35 These work great.
12:08:36 We just ask direction be given to staff to bring us --
12:08:39 we work on this five years.
12:08:43 And we thank you and staff.
12:08:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:08:45 Thank you.
12:08:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move that we make the two
12:08:50 recommendations that were just made by the citizenry,
12:08:52 that we adopt the regular sign code and we bleat the
12:08:56 line about disallowing maneuvering.
12:08:59 >> The only thing I would say about Armenia and Howard,
12:09:02 the reason why those two streets are excluded, because
12:09:06 those are the two higher speed, higher capacity
12:09:08 roadways that are direct connections to I-275.
12:09:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Mick Lenny points.
12:09:14 >> However, but the current process is all these
12:09:17 properties come to City Council for that allowance to
12:09:19 keep that maneuvering.
12:09:20 Only those two streets specifically given the nature of
12:09:23 those roadways would have to come potentially to allow
12:09:26 that parking to remain and maneuver.
12:09:27 It was seen as a safety issue on those two streets.
12:09:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Honestly, West Tampa people think
12:09:32 that people drive too quickly through their
12:09:35 They wish they went more slowly so they could shop and
12:09:38 go to restaurants.
12:09:38 So the maneuvering makes people slow down so they don't
12:09:42 get creamed.
12:09:43 Do we have the ability to direct that change?
12:09:45 >> Do you.
12:09:46 I would not be doing my job if I didn't bring up the
12:09:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So my motion would be we eliminate
12:09:54 that and adopt the sign code.
12:09:58 >> Second.
12:09:59 >> Those are two separate items.
12:10:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Two actions within also direct what
12:10:07 Tampa changes.
12:10:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
12:10:13 Own policies?
12:10:15 [ Motion carried ]
12:10:16 >> I know you were going to jump to the two privately
12:10:21 East Tampa was separate hand out.
12:10:22 Driven by the East Tampa land use committee.
12:10:24 There are minor changes, including some language about
12:10:27 sustainability and economically viable mixed use
12:10:30 >> Does the clerk have that one?
12:10:33 >> Yes.
12:10:34 It was in the supplemental.
12:10:38 >> Is actually driven by the land use committee working
12:10:41 with staff.
12:10:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Going to take a lot of time?
12:10:44 >> No, no.
12:10:44 I mean I can briefly go through it.
12:10:47 There's just minor changes can.
12:10:49 Clarifications also, that before chain link and wood
12:10:53 fences were not allowed.
12:10:54 They do now allow black vinyl clad chain link or
12:10:58 decorative wire fencing.
12:11:00 That restriction they had before was too restrictive.
12:11:05 They did include desks for sustainable development to
12:11:08 go along with their intent.
12:11:09 They did include in building design standards, for the
12:11:12 single-family homes being built there, they don't want
12:11:15 just stucco or finish on the front. They want it all
12:11:19 the way around.
12:11:20 They want the aesthetic all the way around those
12:11:23 Then any other walls for fences built in the commercial
12:11:25 district really should be finished as well.
12:11:29 That's standard language throughout the rest of the
12:11:31 overlay district and they wanted the same treatment.
12:11:33 That's pretty much what it is.
12:11:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
12:11:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
12:11:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
12:11:44 >> Chairman of the land use committee.
12:11:45 We appreciate the change.
12:11:47 Thank you very much.
12:11:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
12:11:48 Been moved and second.
12:11:49 All in favor signify by saying aye.
12:11:54 [MOTION CARRIED]
12:12:00 >> The next amendment is the HCC amendment, Morris
12:12:06 Massey, the applicant.
12:12:08 >> Good afternoon, Council, Morris Massey here on
12:12:10 behalf of Hillsborough Community College.
12:12:13 As Council will remember, there was an issue about the
12:12:17 jurisdiction of the Barrio Latino Commission.
12:12:21 Design standards relative to the college.
12:12:23 In connection with the student services building.
12:12:26 We worked through the issues as they related to that
12:12:29 building with both the administration and with the
12:12:32 Part of the compromise that we reached was proffering
12:12:35 this proposed amendment to the code that would clarify
12:12:38 that the college is you subject to the design standard.
12:12:41 Unless there's a mandatory building code requirement
12:12:44 planned dated by state law.
12:12:45 And that's the purpose of the amendment.
12:12:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
12:12:50 this item?
12:12:51 Anyone from the public?
12:12:52 Councilwoman Saul-Sena?
12:12:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
12:12:55 Mr. Massey, the changes made to the building, because
12:12:57 of the public and City Council's involvement, were
12:13:01 much -- it is much better than it would have been.
12:13:03 It is still not great. And this is a terrific step and
12:13:06 I am pleased we are moving this direction.
12:13:09 >> Thank you.
12:13:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a motion?
12:13:11 >> Question.
12:13:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Julia, so just for clarification,
12:13:19 they're required to comply with all provisions, does
12:13:24 that include going to the Barrio?
12:13:27 >> Yes, it does.
12:13:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Massey.
12:13:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and second.
12:13:33 That was moved by Councilwoman Saul-Sena, seconded by
12:13:36 Council Mulhern.
12:13:37 All in favor signify by saying aye.
12:13:42 >> Thank you.
12:13:43 The second amendment, the applicant is Garner,
12:13:47 unfortunately had a conflict.
12:13:48 But as I mentioned before, there was opposition.
12:13:51 This particular change is allow a college use in the
12:13:53 MAP four district, which is the furthest outer ring
12:13:57 from the airport.
12:13:58 This has been reviewed by the legal department of the
12:14:00 airport authority as well as our legal department.
12:14:03 And there are no conflicts with our code or with their
12:14:06 So there were no objections.
12:14:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
12:14:10 Council on this item?
12:14:11 Councilwoman Saul-Sena?
12:14:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move this.
12:14:16 >> Second.
12:14:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
12:14:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question on that. Cathy, there's no
12:14:24 impact to MacDill as related to this?
12:14:27 >> No, that is not an MAP district.
12:14:32 >> Thank you.
12:14:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
12:14:34 All in favor signify by saying aye.
12:14:36 What I'd like to do is pick up the rest of these this
12:14:40 afternoon -- our meeting, is it 5:30?
12:14:43 What time we meeting?
12:14:45 >> I have a 40th Street community planning session
12:14:49 At 6:00.
12:14:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is at 5:30.
12:14:56 >> I'm also going almost to Temple Terrace.
12:15:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The meeting has been published for
12:15:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think we can speed through these.
12:15:08 The public has been here all morning.
12:15:09 It is important stuff.
12:15:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have some changes on the fence
12:15:14 thing being typed up.
12:15:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Who can come back at 1:30?
12:15:19 I being.
12:15:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I like the idea of trying to do it
12:15:23 this evening.
12:15:24 You can delegate somebody to cover for you.
12:15:27 Who's going to be for you here anyway tonight?
12:15:33 >> There's actually, we are short on staff tonight
12:15:35 because two of our staff, three of our staff members
12:15:37 will be here tonight for the meeting.
12:15:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's what I mean.
12:15:42 >> Going to be here tonight.
12:15:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's what with I am saying,
12:15:46 somebody who is here tonight can cover for you on the
12:15:48 rest of these.
12:15:48 >> They're doing the cases that are going before you
12:15:51 >> If we put it on at the end of the meeting tonight.
12:15:54 >> At the end?
12:15:55 >> Yes.
12:15:56 Couldn't they just cover for you?
12:16:00 >> I'm not understanding.
12:16:01 >> Couldn't your staff people just cover for you so you
12:16:04 don't have to be here if we put them on the end of the
12:16:06 meeting tonight?
12:16:07 >> Oh, this language?
12:16:08 They could try.
12:16:09 I don't know if they're going to be able to answer all
12:16:12 the direct questions as to what happened when motions
12:16:14 were made or why language reads.
12:16:16 I mean, they could try.
12:16:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You got Abbye?
12:16:20 >> I do.
12:16:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have great faith in Abbye.
12:16:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm available.
12:16:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My problem is --
12:16:35 >> If I need to be here at 5:30, I can be here at 5:30.
12:16:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's try to do it at 5:30.
12:16:43 Okay then.
12:16:46 We move to continue these items till 5:30.
12:16:51 >> So moved.
12:16:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved by Councilman Dingfelder,
12:16:55 seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
12:16:57 All in favor signify by saying aye.
12:17:00 Okay, we stand in recess then -- receiving files.
12:17:05 >> Second.
12:17:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
12:17:06 We stand in recess till 5:30.
12:17:09 Thank you.
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