TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, December 10, 2009
5:30 p.m. Evening Session
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(Roll call in progress)
17:54:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
17:54:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
17:54:21 I hit that traffic over there with the gator game and
17:54:25 I apologize for being late.
17:54:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have two memorandums here today.
17:54:33 One is from Joseph Caetano.
17:54:37 Please be advised I will not be able to attend the City
17:54:40 Council evening meeting on December 10, 2009.
17:54:43 Thank you in advance for your attention to this matter.
17:54:47 And the other one is from Councilman Charlie Miranda.
17:54:50 Please be advised that I will be unable to attend the
17:54:54 City Council evening session on December 10, 2009, due to
17:54:55 a family illness.
17:54:57 Please see that the reason for my absence is read into
17:54:58 the record.
17:55:00 Thank you.
17:55:18 We need to pick up from this morning, Marty, on the text
17:55:23 >> Yes.
17:55:28 I believe --
17:55:35 >>REBECCA KERT: Rebecca Kert, Legal Department.
17:55:38 I would like to take up the amendments with the legal
17:55:41 This amendment deals with the clarification of chapter 27
17:55:43 dealing with the BLC.
17:55:47 We have previously amended Chapter 27 to make a general
17:55:50 statement that the design standards are more stringent
17:55:52 than other regulations in the code that the design
17:55:55 standards would apply.
17:55:58 What we have done this time is a more thorough review in
17:56:02 Chapter 27 where it would be appropriate to make that
17:56:04 recommendation in addition to that regarding the
17:56:07 recommendations that the BLC and ALC make to the City
17:56:10 Council, we added vacating applications that they in
17:56:13 practice have already been doing and we also provided a
17:56:15 notice provision for those recommendations which would be
17:56:18 appropriate and that is the posting at this time.
17:56:24 I am available if you have any questions.
17:56:30 >> The one starts on page 17 to 21 of this morning's --
17:56:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I thought we were continuing all of
17:56:34 these discussions.
17:56:37 >> I asked for them to be taken out of order because I
17:56:42 had a prior commitment.
17:56:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman.
17:56:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
17:56:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: These are really cleanup provisions
17:56:56 because the technical manual shed things and came back
17:56:58 >>REBECCA KERT: That is not accurate to say.
17:57:03 Based on case law, we made a change in the code that the
17:57:06 design standards if they require more stringent
17:57:10 development standards than those apply if you have a
17:57:13 greater maximum in your height area and setback.
17:57:16 What we have done this time is gone in more detail
17:57:18 throughout all the different provisions in Chapter 27
17:57:22 where it would be appropriate to also make that
17:57:24 clarification so everything is consistent and no
17:57:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This is a follow-on from the issue.
17:57:36 >> The key words are height and placement.
17:57:39 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes, that's correct.
17:57:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
17:57:45 >>MARY MULHERN: Did anyone else want -- can you direct
17:57:48 me to -- on page 17, is that right?
17:57:51 >>REBECCA KERT: My pages are different but that's what
17:57:53 Mr. Shelby said, yes.
17:57:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, the whole thing.
17:58:01 >>REBECCA KERT: Various sections of Chapter 27.
17:58:04 >>MARY MULHERN: This was really supposed to be part of
17:58:08 our workshop and we weren't able to get to it.
17:58:09 And I think this is very important.
17:58:10 We need to continue this for discussion.
17:58:12 >>REBECCA KERT: I don't have any problem with that if
17:58:16 you would like to have a more detailed discussion on
17:58:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I mean --
17:58:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Kathy said she will continue the
17:58:21 other one until next week.
17:58:24 >>REBECCA KERT: I have no problem with that.
17:58:25 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know --
17:58:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Continue this one to next week.
17:58:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Linda have you looked at this and read
17:58:30 this through.
17:58:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have not and I think continuing to
17:58:34 next week is a great idea.
17:58:38 >>MARY MULHERN: I move to continue to next week.
17:58:42 >>JULIA COLE: Julia Cole with the Legal Department.
17:58:44 You have a number of items you can go through.
17:58:47 I don't know if you just want to consider continuing --
17:58:49 and we were going to suggest that the electric fence
17:58:53 provision gets continued until 1:30 next week.
17:58:56 I understand only one alcoholic beverage permit on your
17:58:58 agenda for this afternoon.
17:59:01 I don't know if the City Council wouldn't prefer to move
17:59:05 the entire remainder of the provisions floor day.
17:59:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I think so.
17:59:08 I will move all the worked.
17:59:11 >> So shop items we didn't get to from this morning's
17:59:14 agenda until next week at 1:30.
17:59:16 >> Yes, you have one sale of alcoholic beverage and two
17:59:20 historic preservation property tax application which
17:59:22 normally take --
17:59:23 >>MARY MULHERN: All of the text amendments --
17:59:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A motion to continue to the 17th at
17:59:30 Second by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
17:59:33 All in favor signify by saying aye.
17:59:42 Thank you very much.
17:59:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Hold that thought.
17:59:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me -- City Council, let me take the
17:59:53 opportunity to recognize the Mayor's youth corp, if they
17:59:54 will please stand and be recognized.
17:59:58 They are here this evening in observance -- so we want to
18:00:05 Now you have proof that you were here.
18:00:06 It is on television.
18:00:14 Okay, thank you.
18:00:27 We will take up the first item.
18:00:30 >>JULIA COLE: Julia Cole, Legal Department.
18:00:31 You have two ordinances.
18:00:36 One is an ordinance to approve an update 2009 edition of
18:00:38 the Transportation Technical Manual of Minimum Standards.
18:00:41 And the other one -- the other ordinance that you have in
18:00:45 front of you is an ordinance to amend Chapter 22 that
18:00:47 contains several provisions in it.
18:00:50 And I am going to quickly tell you the context of these
18:00:52 requested changes.
18:00:55 City Council is aware, we have been working to update our
18:00:59 technical manual, our Transportation technical manual for
18:01:00 some time.
18:01:02 Going through this process it was clear there were
18:01:06 provisions in our technical manual that were adopted into
18:01:08 code and several different places our technical manual
18:01:10 were adopted.
18:01:12 There were conflicts in what was in our tech manual
18:01:15 versus what was in our code.
18:01:17 We actually took a lot of time and had a lot of
18:01:20 discussions about stripping down the technical manual
18:01:24 down to the very basic minimum standards, and in a lot of
18:01:27 ways just adopting the recognized technical standards
18:01:30 that are within the State of Florida.
18:01:33 So that we have really taken a manual that was very
18:01:37 large, narrowed it, narrowed its focus, its scope, the
18:01:39 minimum safety standards which really is what your
18:01:42 technical manual should be providing, minimum safety
18:01:47 The second ordinance does several things.
18:01:53 The first thing that it does is it actually adopts into
18:02:00 the code our -- there are just some general language
18:02:03 changes that it adopts into our code the provisions for
18:02:05 driveways on local streets, because there are no
18:02:10 generally accepted technical statewide standards for --
18:02:12 standards for driveways on residential streets.
18:02:16 It adopts into the code something that was within the
18:02:19 technical manual and that is the brick street ordinance.
18:02:22 And I think we have dealt with the brick street ordinance
18:02:25 on very many occasions but interestingly, it was actually
18:02:30 housed within our technical manual of adopting it into
18:02:30 Chapter 22.
18:02:33 The provisions in the brick street ordinance are
18:02:37 identical as to what was within the technical standard I
18:02:39 just listed and moved them over with one exception, and
18:02:41 that's really a procedural exception.
18:02:44 As you know a lot of time you see these brick street
18:02:46 ordinance issues come associated with vacation
18:02:51 In order to impact a brick street, there is a public
18:02:54 hearing requirement, and what I -- what I did was drafted
18:02:58 a provision in there that says the brick street ordinance
18:03:01 request to impact the brick street would run -- be able
18:03:04 to run concur rent and with the same processes of
18:03:06 vacation ordinance so therefore we are not bringing
18:03:09 something to you, continuing it and actually run with the
18:03:10 -- with the vacation ordinance.
18:03:16 And the third provision, and this is 22-319 is actually a
18:03:17 new provision.
18:03:21 What your code used to provide for is an opportunity for
18:03:25 variances to technical standards with some Criterion and
18:03:30 those were administrative type of variances.
18:03:33 Without belaboring the point we would get into these
18:03:36 discussions within site plan development of PD type
18:03:40 Can you waive a technical standard, can you not waive a
18:03:41 technical standard.
18:03:44 My opinion that you will never want to waive your basic
18:03:46 safety standard.
18:03:49 You always want to keep those intact for a variety of
18:03:51 different reasons, but what this does do is provide an
18:03:55 opportunity for the Transportation manager to conduct
18:03:58 upon request of a property owner that may want to do
18:04:01 something that is a little different than what, you know,
18:04:04 called out in a technical safety standard, an alternative
18:04:06 design exception process.
18:04:09 It is modeled directly how the Florida department of
18:04:12 Transportation handles the issue, what it will provide
18:04:15 for as an opportunity to make the request to the
18:04:18 Transportation manager to have -- you know, an -- a
18:04:22 conversation engineered to engineer allow that property
18:04:26 owner's engineer to provide documentation there may be an
18:04:30 alternative way to -- to design something that is just as
18:04:33 safe but is not in accordance with the -- with the safety
18:04:36 standard called out in the generally accepted manual.
18:04:39 What this is attempting to do is to provide for a
18:04:42 It is a process that we undertake now, but it is really
18:04:46 more on an ad hoc basis and doesn't really have anything
18:04:48 associated with it for a process.
18:04:54 And a lot of times what it would devolve down to is no,
18:04:56 you need a waiver and do it this way.
18:04:59 The intent of this session is -- section is to provide
18:05:01 that opportunity to have the safety provisions either in
18:05:04 the technical manual or within code, if there are
18:05:06 technical safety standards, an opportunity for two
18:05:08 engineers to get together, have a conversation.
18:05:11 From an engineering perspective, figure out an
18:05:14 alternative way to handle a situation with the most
18:05:17 important issue being there is no compromise to safety
18:05:22 because that is the underlying requirement when we adopt
18:05:24 a technical manual to assure that if there is going to be
18:05:27 a design or some kind of construction within the city's
18:05:31 facilities, that they are done in a way that is safe.
18:05:34 That is in a nutshell.
18:05:37 We have had several conversations about this and sent
18:05:40 this out to everybody and has moved forward.
18:05:43 Melanie Calloway is here if you have direct technical
18:05:46 questions, but procedurally that is where we are.
18:05:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
18:05:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Julia, thank you, last night I had a
18:05:57 choice of bamboo under my nails or reading the
18:05:58 Transportation standards.
18:06:00 I went with the bamboo -- no --
18:06:00 [ Laughter ]
18:06:08 -- the seriously though the -- the alternative I think is
18:06:13 It is a little more flexibility for the -- for the
18:06:14 petitioner or the builder.
18:06:17 When we know they are doing that sort of thing, but you
18:06:18 alluded to this earlier.
18:06:24 We do hit that occasion periodically during a PD
18:06:27 evaluation or up here where we run into a little
18:06:29 Transportation glitch, and I am not saying we should sit
18:06:32 here and wrestle with that -- those kind of technical
18:06:39 issues with the Transportation engineer either ours or on
18:06:41 the fly like that, but what I am wondering about does
18:06:45 your ordinance modification address that circumstance?
18:06:48 Does it address the possibility that the request for a
18:06:52 Transportation exception might actually originate at
18:06:55 Council, you know, through -- through this -- through
18:06:59 this process, you know --
18:07:03 >> The intent of the session is that it is something that
18:07:05 is driven by a property owner applicant that is coming
18:07:08 forward saying, well, you know, I would like to do
18:07:11 something different than what is called out as the
18:07:12 technical safety standard.
18:07:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sometimes we say that we would like
18:07:18 them to do something different, and then the applicant
18:07:22 says, yes, but your Transportation staff says we can't.
18:07:26 And we say, well, we would like you to try to work with
18:07:27 them to do that or something like that.
18:07:30 But I just want to make sure that there is enough
18:07:35 flexibility in this language to -- you know, to include
18:07:37 that possibility as well.
18:07:40 And maybe it is just a little minor tweak that we can do
18:07:43 between first and second reading.
18:07:44 >>JULIA COLE: Sounds to me that is something that we can
18:07:46 provide for.
18:07:49 The intent is to allow this to occur and I understand
18:07:53 that, yes, it does happen within the context of the PD
18:07:54 where that question does come up.
18:07:57 And I had it -- when I had drafted it, it was my intent
18:08:01 to allow that to almost run with the PD if necessary
18:08:03 because may be if there is something that an applicant
18:08:06 wants to do, it does need to be recognized in the PD.
18:08:09 I don't think that is outside the scope of the intent of
18:08:10 what this is.
18:08:12 And may be tweaking the language to ensure that it is
18:08:15 something that both can run with the plan development if
18:08:16 that is the case.
18:08:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to send a message to
18:08:21 future councils with some little language in there that
18:08:26 this is an option that's in there.
18:08:31 But other than that, if you can tweak that up and propose
18:08:32 something at second reading.
18:08:35 >>JULIA COLE: I am happy to do that and given that I
18:08:38 wouldn't have to change the title and to change the
18:08:43 intent, I can go ahead and add some language and discuss
18:08:45 that with you at second reading.
18:08:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
18:08:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I am happy this is before us.
18:08:55 I will be happy to adopt it.
18:08:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
18:09:02 >>MARY MULHERN: Recently we practically had people in
18:09:06 Ybor City laying down on the asphalt covered brick street
18:09:09 on 4th avenue when it was about to be covered and
18:09:11 emergency meeting of the exhibit of the crushed brick
18:09:13 came in.
18:09:17 And I am -- you know, I know we need to protect the brick
18:09:22 streets, but I am not comfortable with some of the
18:09:23 exemptions here.
18:09:26 So is that something we can work on between first and
18:09:27 second reading too?
18:09:29 >>JULIA COLE: I think that that -- I understand what you
18:09:32 are saying and there may be some discussion that needs to
18:09:35 occur as it relates to those exemptions, but the intent
18:09:38 was really just to pick up what we had and go ahead and
18:09:41 do something with it, and I do think something like that
18:09:43 would take further time and further consideration.
18:09:46 My recommendation would be is to allow this to move
18:09:50 forward in its current configuration because what I would
18:09:53 not want to do is readopt the technical manual without
18:09:56 anything related to brick streets and the brick street
18:10:00 So I would recommend if we want to revisit that, I would
18:10:02 want to have a little more conversation to understand
18:10:05 exactly what the issues were and I do think you would
18:10:07 need to hear from the Transportation manager as it
18:10:08 relates to that issue.
18:10:11 So if that is something you want to revisit the language
18:10:14 in the brick street ordinance either we can go ahead and
18:10:18 adopt this, and we certainly would have the right to
18:10:21 amend it later or recommend that we hold the whole thing.
18:10:24 Because if we adopt this technical manual in the current
18:10:28 state the way we have it in front of you would be losing
18:10:30 the brick street ordinance.
18:10:32 >>MARY MULHERN: I guess here is -- I would be
18:10:36 comfortable adopting this if we schedule either -- I can
18:10:38 work with you on this and possibly make some changes
18:10:40 before second reading.
18:10:48 Or if we actually schedule a day for public workshop to
18:10:50 discuss this.
18:10:55 Because I -- I think that the problem -- the big problems
18:11:01 I have seen that has come up, which is controversial but
18:11:07 from my -- it is possible that it is more economic --
18:11:10 economical rather than continually paving over with
18:11:15 modern kind of asphalt we have now.
18:11:20 And the assumption is that that's cheaper and safer,
18:11:23 which I think that there are a lot of other cities that
18:11:25 disagree with that.
18:11:27 >>JULIA COLE: I think that is probably a fairly
18:11:28 significant conversation.
18:11:29 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
18:11:32 >>JULIA COLE: What I would recommend so that we don't --
18:11:34 I would prefer not to hold the talks -- because we have
18:11:37 been working to get this done and keeping the status quo
18:11:42 If we can move forward the way it is and maybe you would
18:11:45 request to schedule a workshop.
18:11:48 I know your January workshop is pretty filled up and you
18:11:51 may want to consider February and in the meantime I can
18:11:53 meet with you to discuss some of the issues.
18:11:54 >>MARY MULHERN: That was the second question.
18:11:57 I don't know if somebody is here from Transportation.
18:12:00 >>JULIA COLE: Melanie Calloway is here.
18:12:02 >>MARY MULHERN: Or land use.
18:12:06 Somebody who knows what is coming up in the near future.
18:12:14 I guess it would be Transportation.
18:12:16 Here is my question.
18:12:19 If we have a workshop on this in February, are there --
18:12:24 is there work scheduled to cover reasphalt any streets in
18:12:29 historic districts that might have brick under them in.
18:12:31 >> Melanie Calloway, Transportation.
18:12:34 The Transportation division is not -- does not pave the
18:12:42 Urban -- the Director of public works does do that, type
18:12:42 of street maintenance.
18:12:46 We can get with him and see if he has any schedule to do
18:12:49 >>MARY MULHERN: I will talk with him and if I can get
18:12:52 that information out of him and it looks like there are
18:12:56 some endangered asphalt-covered brick streets, I might
18:12:59 come back to you Julia and try to work on something
18:13:03 before second reading, otherwise -- I would like to move
18:13:06 to schedule this workshop maybe for February.
18:13:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second --
18:13:10 >>MARY MULHERN: No?
18:13:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My understanding we have someone from
18:13:17 S.W.F.W.M.D. Here and you have asked that --
18:13:21 >> The issue of reclaimed water.
18:13:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why don't we schedule a special
18:13:25 discussion meeting even in January.
18:13:27 >>MARY MULHERN: That's fine because there are certain
18:13:29 people who care about it and a lot of other people not so
18:13:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do you have a calendar?
18:13:39 Mull I don't have a calendar, sorry.
18:13:49 I don't know -- maybe we do in the back of our agenda.
18:14:02 >>MARY MULHERN: January?
18:14:10 The special discussion meeting on a -- on a -- it
18:14:17 doesn't have to be on a -- CRA -- yeah, we have got
18:14:18 evening too.
18:14:25 I guess if we want staff present we could have it on the
18:14:28 14th of January, there is an evening session that day, so
18:14:30 that's not so great.
18:14:34 But when you go to the 21st, we have public hearings in
18:14:36 the afternoon.
18:14:38 There is never going to be a good day.
18:14:40 So how about the 14th.
18:14:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
18:14:47 >>MARY MULHERN: At 1:30.
18:14:51 A discussion meeting to discuss some changes to this
18:14:52 brick street ordinance.
18:14:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think we should specifically
18:14:57 request not only is urban Lee there but Dennis Fernandez
18:15:03 is there from Preservation, because his predecessor De La
18:15:07 Costa did a lot of research on brick streets and other
18:15:08 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
18:15:12 I am going to request -- I am going to invite barrio
18:15:16 Latino people and anyone -- mostly the Ybor people who
18:15:18 have been concerned about it.
18:15:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I am going to tell you now I am not
18:15:25 going to support it.
18:15:26 >> Okay.
18:15:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Hyde Park too.
18:15:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A motion and moved and seconded for the
18:15:34 14th at what time.
18:15:36 >>MARY MULHERN: 1:30.
18:15:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Out of deference to the Chair, you
18:15:41 are not supporting the scheduling or the -- or the -- I
18:15:43 know you are in favor of brick streets.
18:15:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I just think -- I have issue with
18:15:47 special discussion now.
18:15:50 I got major issues.
18:15:54 >>MARY MULHERN: The problem is we can't fit the
18:15:57 Our schedule is just crammed.
18:16:02 I don't know what else to do unless --
18:16:04 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to pass it tonight and
18:16:08 incorporate it later?
18:16:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: For first reading tonight.
18:16:12 >>JULIA COLE: But the issue that Miss Mulhern has raised
18:16:15 is something that I think is a fairly significant
18:16:17 question isn't something that I can change between first
18:16:18 and second reading.
18:16:21 It really does require, I think, some more in-depth
18:16:25 So my concern about holding off on the brick street
18:16:28 ordinance is we would really have to table the entire
18:16:32 thing because I wouldn't want to adopt the Transportation
18:16:33 technical manual without brick street ordinance because
18:16:37 then there would be nothing relating to that issue.
18:16:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Not delaying anything by holding this
18:16:42 >>MARY MULHERN: We are not holding it back.
18:16:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We are not holding it back.
18:16:46 >>GWEN MILLER: She said we need to do first reading
18:16:50 >>MARY MULHERN: I am not saying not to adopt it, I am
18:16:53 saying we need further discussions for changes.
18:16:56 And unless we can -- we can do it February -- February
18:16:58 We have reclaimed water.
18:17:00 I don't know if that's going to be that --
18:17:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Why can't we do it in March.
18:17:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me, I think this is something
18:17:08 that has a very specialized group of people who are
18:17:11 We should have it for the people who are interested in
18:17:12 Get going on it.
18:17:15 It is going to take some work, and bring it back after it
18:17:18 has had some work for the whole of council.
18:17:22 We know that everybody can't come all day on Thursday.
18:17:24 So it is for the people who are particularly interested.
18:17:27 >>MARY MULHERN: You want to call the question.
18:17:28 >> Call the question.
18:17:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we need to read the ordinance for
18:17:35 first reading and then make a motion to do that?
18:17:39 >> My suggestion -- my suggestion is that if you wish to
18:17:42 -- if you wish to -- if there is a motion on the floor, a
18:17:46 motion and a second that was on the floor right now, you
18:17:48 could address that and go to the first reading of this
18:17:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion on the floor is to have a
18:17:53 special discussion on the 14th.
18:17:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
18:17:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's the motion.
18:17:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
18:17:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
18:18:01 All in favor signify by saying aye.
18:18:11 >> Again the 14th of January at 1:30 in the afternoon.
18:18:13 >>MARY MULHERN: Then I will move adoption of the
18:18:18 Saul we haven't heard --
18:18:19 >>JULIA COLE: Julia Cole.
18:18:22 This is not a public hearing under first reading;
18:18:24 however, typically you would have public comment.
18:18:27 You don't have public comment at your night meeting, and
18:18:31 I know he is here to speak to this item and I would
18:18:34 recommend -- because we have spoken at public comment
18:18:38 that he has an opportunity to put his comments on the
18:18:41 >> Thank you, Spencer Kass.
18:18:41 This is very quick.
18:18:43 We discussed this with legal.
18:18:44 I am with Transportation.
18:18:46 We are fine with what they did.
18:18:47 It was a lot of hard work.
18:18:51 All we are asking for what they edit in is alternative
18:18:54 materials, Transportation that the other departments can
18:18:55 live with.
18:18:57 Right now it is very difficult in the city if you want to
18:19:01 use an alternative material to do a parking lot or
18:19:01 something else.
18:19:04 Getting all the departments to agree is difficult.
18:19:06 I believe legal has a way of working that out that they
18:19:09 can live with and that Transportation can live with.
18:19:12 I will let Julia give you the details, but they need
18:19:15 instruction from you to do that and that is what we
18:19:17 respectfully request.
18:19:20 >>MARY MULHERN: You are requesting a change?
18:19:21 Saul having alternative --
18:19:24 >>JULIA COLE: The way this is drafted is really intended
18:19:28 to be more for a design issue and what Mr. Kass is saying
18:19:32 that it should cover some kind of alternative materials.
18:19:35 And I am comfortable adding some language into -- to that
18:19:39 And I don't understand Transportation would have an issue
18:19:39 to that.
18:19:41 >>MARY MULHERN: So you would do that --
18:19:43 >>JULIA COLE: I would do that between first and second
18:19:46 reading and since it is on the record.
18:19:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If that is --
18:19:52 >> If that is council's wish and have that as part of
18:19:54 your motion in between first and second reading.
18:19:58 >>MARY MULHERN: I will move to adopt the ordinance --
18:20:01 >> If we can, Mr. Chairman, forgive me.
18:20:04 Mr. Kass is the only person that spoke but put on the
18:20:08 record anyone else who wishes to speak.
18:20:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else wish to speak and address
18:20:13 council on this issue, item 1?
18:20:15 >> I see nobody, Mr. Chairman.
18:20:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I will move for adoption on first
18:20:23 reading with the understanding that there will be changes
18:20:28 with additional materials before second reading.
18:20:29 >> That would be?
18:20:32 You have to read -- you have to read it by title.
18:20:38 It will be the first one and then you are going to have
18:20:43 to read the second one separately.
18:20:46 >>MARY MULHERN: Of I move an ordinance on first reading
18:20:49 public hearing regarding the draft Transportation
18:20:51 Technical Manual of Minimum Standards and associated
18:20:55 amendments to Chapter 22, City of Tampa code.
18:20:58 Original motion -- oh, sorry, I read the wrong thing.
18:20:59 I'm very sorry.
18:21:01 Guilt really fast.
18:21:03 Ordinance presented for first reading moved for adoption
18:21:06 first reading and consideration an ordinance of the City
18:21:10 of Tampa, Florida, amending Chapter 22 Code of Ordinances
18:21:14 by adopting the 2009 edition of the Transportation
18:21:17 division technical Manuel providing for a repeal of
18:21:23 section 17.5-17 to and section 25-156, City of Tampa Code
18:21:26 of Ordinances and ordinances and conflicts providing for
18:21:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
18:21:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All those in favor signify by saying
18:21:42 >> Motion carries with Caetano and Miranda being absent.
18:21:46 Second reading January 10 at 9:30.
18:21:48 I wanted to make sure for the record that your motion
18:21:52 includes a direction for legal to insert language
18:21:54 regarding alternative materials.
18:21:56 >>MARY MULHERN: With the addition of language to address
18:22:01 allowing alternative materials
18:22:06 I move an ordinance being presented for first reading
18:22:08 consideration an ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida,
18:22:12 making comprehensive revisions to Chapter 22, streets and
18:22:14 sidewalks for the City of Tampa Code of Ordinances,
18:22:24 repealing section 22-304 and 22-305 in their entirely.
18:22:26 Functional classifications of roadways, creating Section
18:22:30 22-305, vitrified brick street standards, amending
18:22:36 Section 22-314, driveways location, design and
18:22:37 construction standards.
18:22:41 Repealing Section 22-319 in its entirety.
18:22:45 Creating Section 22-319, alternative design exception
18:22:50 providing for severability, providing for repeal of all
18:22:53 ordinances in conflict providing an effective date.
18:22:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
18:22:59 Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
18:23:05 >> Motion carries with Caetano and Miranda being absent.
18:23:08 Second reading January 10 at 9:30 A.M.
18:23:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If you were here this evening to address
18:23:15 council on any item on agenda from -- as we move forward
18:23:17 you need to be sworn in at this time.
18:23:19 Will you stand and raise your right hand.
18:23:21 If you are going to be speaking at all tonight to
18:23:27 Please stand to be sworn in.
18:23:27 [Oath Adminstered by Clerk]
18:23:34 >> I do.
18:23:38 >>THE CLERK: Thank you.
18:23:40 >> Mr. Chairman, I believe there are items available for
18:23:42 inspection in City Council's office that I would like to
18:23:45 have received and filed by motion at this time.
18:23:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to receive and filed.
18:23:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
18:23:51 All in favor signify by saying aye.
18:23:57 >> Those who are speaking a sign-in sheet outside.
18:24:00 If you can be reminded to sign the sign-in sheet if you
18:24:02 intend to speak.
18:24:04 Thank you.
18:24:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We kind of need to clean up the agenda a
18:24:13 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Good evening, council, Abbye Feeley,
18:24:15 Land Development Coordination.
18:24:18 Item number 2 I have received in the E-Mail requesting a
18:24:22 continuance of that item to January 14 at 6 p.m. this was
18:24:25 in cooperation with staff as the site plan was not ready
18:24:27 to move forward this evening.
18:24:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open item number 2.
18:24:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
18:24:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
18:24:37 Anyone here in opposition to the continuance of item
18:24:37 number 2.
18:24:39 Anyone want to speak?
18:24:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to continue to January 14, 2010.
18:24:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
18:24:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I want to give a shout out to the
18:24:51 youth over there on the side.
18:24:59 I think -- I think they were here for that item too, so
18:25:02 we apologize for that continuance, I guess.
18:25:05 But anyways, nice for you to come and watch your
18:25:08 government in action.
18:25:09 Stick around.
18:25:11 >> Mr. Chairman if we can have that date and time again
18:25:12 and vote on that.
18:25:14 >>GWEN MILLER: January 14.
18:25:15 >> At 6 p.m.?
18:25:16 >>GWEN MILLER: 6 p.m.
18:25:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It has been moved and seconded.
18:25:22 All those in favor signify by saying aye.
18:25:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open item 3 and 4.
18:25:30 >> Second.
18:25:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What I would like to do is take up item
18:25:38 3 and item 6 -- item 5, get those out of the way and take
18:25:40 item 4.
18:25:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Open 3 and 5.
18:25:46 All in favor say aye.
18:25:54 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Council, Abbye Feeley, Land Development
18:26:03 The first item, item number 3, V09-420, located at 1803
18:26:08 east Shadowlawn Avenue and 1802 east McBerry Street.
18:26:12 The request for special use place of religious assembly.
18:26:17 This is an existing church that is seeking --
18:26:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was wrong on that.
18:26:20 This is the one they are here for.
18:26:23 >>ABBYE FEELEY: An existing church that is seeking to do
18:26:24 an expansion.
18:26:27 Let me go through quickly the waivers that are associated
18:26:29 with this request.
18:26:33 The first is to reduce the 10-foot sign setback from 10
18:26:37 to 0 for the existing sign on shadowlawn.
18:26:40 I will address that a little bit when I go into my
18:26:43 Second one is a recommendation of the required buffer on
18:26:46 the east side of the property from 10 feet to 4 feet.
18:26:48 The third is to reduce the required parking from 45
18:26:52 spaces to 34 spaces which is a 24% reduction.
18:26:55 The fourth is to allow for 100% grass parking.
18:26:58 The fifth is to allow for the maneuvering of the solid
18:27:00 waste vehicle within the right-of-way.
18:27:03 You can probably see that on your site plan and I will
18:27:04 address that briefly.
18:27:07 The sixth is to reduce the required front yard setback
18:27:09 from 25 feet to 19.8 feet.
18:27:13 The 7th is to reduce the west yard from 40 feet to 15
18:27:17 The 8th is to reduce the east yard from 40 feet to 12.9
18:27:21 And the last one is to allow access to a local street
18:27:25 which is bordered by three local streets, shadowlawn,
18:27:34 McBerry and 18th.
18:27:40 I will go ahead and show you the zoning atlas.
18:27:43 18th on the west, 19th on the east.
18:27:46 McBerry on the South, Shadowlawn on the north.
18:27:49 The subject property is shown here in green.
18:27:52 As I did mention, it is an existing church at the present
18:27:59 Here is the aerial view.
18:28:06 There is an existing building that fronts shadowlawn and
18:28:08 18th and a smaller building on McBerry.
18:28:13 The addition is going to be placed on the far west
18:28:19 This is located in the East Tampa mixed use overlay
18:28:22 district and it has been reviewed and reviewed by Mike
18:28:24 Callahan, the urban design coordinator.
18:28:26 Here is a front view.
18:28:29 This is the entrance on shadowlawn.
18:28:36 This is vacant area that is on the east side.
18:28:39 This is going to be parking which is shown on the site
18:28:41 plans that I provided you.
18:28:43 This is also the area on shadowlawn.
18:28:47 This is where that addition is going to come out there in
18:28:50 the front.
18:28:55 This is looking from 18th to ward, a that smaller
18:28:59 building that I showed you at McBerry and 18th.
18:29:03 And this is actually a view from McBerry.
18:29:07 The single-family immediate adjacent on McBerry.
18:29:15 As I mentioned there is single family that surrounds the
18:29:16 property on all sides.
18:29:18 This is on shadow lawn.
18:29:23 This is the intersection of southwest corner of 18th and
18:29:27 So this is immediately west of the main sanctuary.
18:29:32 This is the Northwest corner of that intersection.
18:29:35 This is the northeast corner of that intersection.
18:29:40 This is immediately north of the site.
18:29:45 They are requesting this evening a 816-square-feet
18:29:47 addition to the existing church.
18:29:50 The building setbacks as I mentioned in the waivers, 20
18:29:57 foot 4 feet north, 15.9 feet west, 12.9 feet east.
18:30:00 The vehicular access will be on shadowlawn and also on
18:30:02 McBerry and also on north 18th.
18:30:07 The total of 45 spaces are required and 34 are being
18:30:10 There is a waiver for the deficit.
18:30:13 Staff found this inconsistent.
18:30:18 We had two minor modifications.
18:30:21 The site plan refers to signage under chapter 20.05 which
18:30:25 is not a chapter and we need them to change that to be
18:30:30 And the second is to please provide the actual setbacks
18:30:32 on the data portion of the site plan.
18:30:36 There is a comment in your staff report from solid waste
18:30:39 concerning the maneuvering of the solid waste vehicle
18:30:42 related to the current location of the dumpster.
18:30:44 You can see the way -- the solid waste actually comes
18:30:45 down 18th.
18:30:48 If you look on your site plan and crosses oncoming
18:30:50 traffic in order to service the current location.
18:30:55 So they did want to raise that as -- as a safety issue.
18:30:57 And they are here to speak to that if necessary, and the
18:31:00 last is that parks and recreation would like a note that
18:31:03 they will review and approve the development at the time
18:31:04 of permitting.
18:31:07 You will find additional analysis on pages 3 and 4 of
18:31:08 your staff report.
18:31:11 Changes are made in between first and second reading.
18:31:15 Staff would find this consistent.
18:31:18 And I am available for any questions.
18:31:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Planning Commission.
18:31:27 >> Good evening, Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.
18:31:27 I have been sworn in.
18:31:31 I would like to add some additional comments to Miss
18:31:34 Feeley's comments on a comprehensive plan aspect.
18:31:36 The site is in the East Tampa district.
18:31:40 Within the East Tampa CRA which is the largest CRA for
18:31:42 the City of Tampa.
18:31:46 As you can see the predominant land use is residential 10
18:31:51 which does allow this type of community serving use ALS
18:31:55 along with day-care center and also tells you consistent
18:31:57 with the plan and a community serving use that is
18:32:01 basically part of the fabric for the community and has
18:32:02 been for a long period of time.
18:32:03 The Planning Commission finds the proposed request
18:32:05 consistent with the comprehensive plan.
18:32:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions by council?
18:32:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Briefly.
18:32:21 >> Good evening, councilmembers, Linda Pearson, Diaz
18:32:26 Pearson & Associates, 1200 West Platt street, west Tampa.
18:32:30 I have a speakers waiver form that I would like to submit
18:32:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You may not need that.
18:32:34 Let's --
18:32:37 >> Well, I will put it in the record in case we do.
18:32:39 >> Is that for you?
18:32:41 >> For me to just give me a couple more minutes to
18:32:43 discuss one issue we've got.
18:32:45 And also I have got some petitions in support that I
18:32:50 would like to submit to the Clerk and to the council.
18:32:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay --
18:32:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Linda --
18:33:04 >> We have a question.
18:33:08 First of all, I would like to introduce some of those who
18:33:12 are here month addition to the pathfinders that you just
18:33:15 mentioned, their youth program, pastor cross is here
18:33:19 along with building committee members, church members,
18:33:24 neighbors, supporters and their architect.
18:33:27 If I can ask them to stand so you can see which ones are
18:33:29 here tonight, in support by the way.
18:33:34 And if you are standing, you can just wave.
18:33:36 Councilmembers, just to give you a little bit of
18:33:38 background on a couple of these issues.
18:33:41 This church was constructed in 1953.
18:33:44 It has been in continuous use --
18:33:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Miss Pearson, I am trying to help you.
18:33:51 >> Yes, sir, I know, but I've got a question.
18:33:53 I appreciate it and I need your help too.
18:33:56 We reviewed the staff report.
18:34:00 We have been working very diligently with your staff, and
18:34:05 I want to compliment them on their health and diligence
18:34:13 in assisting us there is one issue that is causing a
18:34:17 little bit of heartburn with the church membership.
18:34:21 And they have been praying about it as -- as have I for
18:34:25 your guidance and for your leadership on it.
18:34:28 The sign setback we don't have a problem with.
18:34:30 Our new signage will meet code.
18:34:34 Our buffer waivers are just on one side relatively to the
18:34:35 4-foot distance.
18:34:38 The building setbacks are going to remain the same.
18:34:41 The new addition will not exceed into those front
18:34:44 setbacks at all.
18:34:46 The only issue that we have that is causing them
18:34:49 heartburn is the fact with the tree.
18:34:54 There is a 60-inch tree that parks and recreation has
18:34:57 determined to be an unsafe situation that they have asked
18:35:02 us to remove, and they have been gracious enough to not
18:35:08 require us to replace it at -- at an inch-per-inch basis.
18:35:13 It is an oak that is hazardous can't the southwest corner
18:35:16 of the site, 60 inches here.
18:35:18 That is not the issue either.
18:35:22 I am just telling you, staff is working with us, and we
18:35:23 are working with them.
18:35:24 But here is the problem, sir.
18:35:30 There is a 37-inch oak here that has -- and in staff's
18:35:32 opinion has been overpruned.
18:35:38 Overpruned because they showed up for church a few
18:35:42 sabbath back and the limbs have collapsed into the yard
18:35:44 so the major limbs were cut.
18:35:47 Those had to be replaced on inch-per-inch basis.
18:35:50 This property is 20,000 square feet.
18:35:57 And staff wants us to put in 53 two-inch trees.
18:36:02 I have talked with Mary today again about it, but I think
18:36:04 she is going by code.
18:36:06 We respect that.
18:36:11 We don't want to not put in trees, but we are trying to
18:36:14 get guidance from you on how we can put in a reasonable
18:36:16 amount of trees.
18:36:18 We could certainly pay into a tree fund, but right now
18:36:21 trees are at a cost that we can buy trees less than we
18:36:25 can pay into your fund at $300 per tree.
18:36:29 So we are asking for your direction or your responses to
18:36:34 We are happy to do trees, but not 53.
18:36:39 That -- that is our issue.
18:36:42 Mr. Chairman, this -- this community provides --
18:36:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How many trees can you afford to put in?
18:36:49 >> Well, we would like to not to have to put in the 18.
18:36:53 We would like a reduction of 18 -- so we believe 35 would
18:36:54 be more in keeping.
18:36:59 I mean that's plenty on a half-acre lot, I believe.
18:37:01 >> I agree with you on that.
18:37:05 >> If you would like it to be less, we certainly could do
18:37:10 >>JULIA COLE: Julia Cole of legal department.
18:37:12 This issue was not brought to the attention of staff.
18:37:15 Certainly was not brought to my attention.
18:37:20 I can opine to what you can legally and not legally do.
18:37:23 It is not a rezoning so you are limited on the types of
18:37:25 waivers you can grant.
18:37:27 I can't guide you without more information.
18:37:29 I don't know if what you want to do is try to go ahead
18:37:32 and finish up this hearing and hold the vote on it so I
18:37:35 can go look at the code and discuss it with staff --
18:37:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Couldn't council just do -- couldn't
18:37:40 we waive some of the trees.
18:37:42 >> No under a special use.
18:37:43 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development.
18:37:49 Under a special use you cannot waive chapter 13.
18:37:50 We had this happen with many churches or places of
18:37:52 religious assembly.
18:37:55 You convert your special use into a PD in order to ask
18:37:56 for those waivers.
18:37:59 This was not brought to my attention prior to the hearing
18:38:01 today or I would be more than happy to talk to Miss
18:38:04 Pearson about doing that and what we would have needed to
18:38:10 do to accommodate that.
18:38:16 I apologize but you cannot get waivers to 13.
18:38:19 >> I am well aware of that, we have talked to staff about
18:38:22 that, we are trying to determine if there is some type of
18:38:27 administrative procedure you would be supportive of even
18:38:31 though you can't do it that we can take to a higher body.
18:38:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well --
18:38:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What staff did you talk to?
18:38:41 >> Mary --
18:38:44 >>ABBYE FEELEY: You can get administrative waiver for
18:38:45 chapter 13 so 10%.
18:38:49 Under 53 trees that would only be five trees.
18:38:52 I am not sure that is what Miss Pearson is looking for.
18:38:56 She is looking for a substantial amount of 53, I would
18:39:00 recommend convert it to PD and come back to you and ask
18:39:03 for that waiver if she God feedback you might be
18:39:05 conducive for that.
18:39:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
18:39:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What I don't understand is the -- I
18:39:15 thought the church -- I thought -- the yellow that is up
18:39:17 there right now, Linda.
18:39:19 >> That is the addition, sir.
18:39:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The addition onto the church.
18:39:31 But is the construction of the addition specifically
18:39:34 impacting that tree?
18:39:34 >> No.
18:39:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So the only reason the tree has come
18:39:40 up is -- well not only that, because they trimmed it and
18:39:43 because they have come in to look for a permit that
18:39:47 triggers some type of site review, but what I am trying
18:39:53 to figure out, Julia, miss Cole -- what I am trying to
18:39:57 figure out is if there is no direct relationship between
18:40:01 the construction that they are doing and the tree, then
18:40:04 why don't they just -- why don't we just eliminate that
18:40:10 issue if the city wants to site them for the removal --
18:40:14 the alleged removal of the limbs and then you guys can do
18:40:17 that through the code enforcement process as a separate
18:40:20 But I don't know why it would even need to be addressed
18:40:22 on this site plan.
18:40:23 And then we can proceed forward.
18:40:27 Not that I am advocating hurting trees.
18:40:30 I want to make that abundantly clear to everybody, but
18:40:33 doesn't appear that that grand tree issue has any
18:40:34 relationship to this construction.
18:40:36 >>JULIA COLE: Mr. Dingfelder, I was actually thinking
18:40:38 the same thing through this process.
18:40:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Great minds.
18:40:45 >>JULIA COLE: This apparently is an existing church
18:40:49 prior to us requiring a special use for churches, so it
18:40:52 would be considered a conforming use.
18:40:54 Traditionally what has happened through this process that
18:40:59 everything has been dealt with on these site plans, but I
18:41:02 think there is a fair analysis that says that is really a
18:41:04 separate issue.
18:41:06 But unfortunately until I have a chance to really look at
18:41:09 that -- I would hate to opine something and then be
18:41:14 With this -- given this has just came up I would
18:41:16 recommend that we continue it if we want to do something
18:41:18 different so we can deal with that issue.
18:41:20 I really don't -- if you want to go ahead and hear it on
18:41:23 first reading and way to deal with it between first and
18:41:26 second reading we can do it that way, otherwise I am not
18:41:28 in a position to opine about this.
18:41:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we should probably do that
18:41:32 and to come back later and you say we have to start over
18:41:35 with first reading again then we would have to start over
18:41:36 with first reading again.
18:41:39 To try to move this forward -- we don't know if there is
18:41:40 any opposition.
18:41:43 There may be some opposition --
18:41:44 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a question.
18:41:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The only issue?
18:41:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Cutting the limbs off the tree.
18:41:51 Is the tree dying?
18:41:52 >> It is not dead.
18:41:55 There are green leaves at the top of it.
18:41:58 It has been pruned because the tree limbs along the
18:41:59 bottom --
18:42:01 >>GWEN MILLER: So it would have survived?
18:42:04 >> Well, we are of the opinion -- we would like to try to
18:42:05 save it.
18:42:08 I talked -- I called Mary today to see if there might be
18:42:16 some type of way that an arborist could approve a deep
18:42:20 fertilizer and rejuvenate it as long as possible.
18:42:21 It is not in the way of any construction that we are
18:42:24 doing, but it is an issue that they felt -- it is her
18:42:27 belief for me, and I don't want to speak for her but this
18:42:32 is what she said to me that it has been overpruned and
18:42:33 expected removal.
18:42:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Where would you put 53 trees.
18:42:40 >> Well, that is our problem, miss Miller.
18:42:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, at this point, at this point, the
18:42:49 tree is irrelevant to this hearing and I like oak trees,
18:42:52 okay, but right now it is irrelevant until we hear from
18:42:53 the attorney.
18:42:56 So what I would like to do is find out is there anyone
18:43:00 here in opposition to this --
18:43:02 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to speak --
18:43:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone in opposition?
18:43:08 >> We had a neighborhood meeting as well just so you
18:43:12 Everybody is happy I think in the community.
18:43:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Now anyone just have a burning desire to
18:43:16 speak us to on this issue?
18:43:19 You don't have to --
18:43:21 >> I do.
18:43:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Excluding you.
18:43:23 We want to hear for the public.
18:43:25 We open it up for the public.
18:43:26 Okay, now --
18:43:28 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to mention I brought up
18:43:32 revising our tree code today earlier because these sorts
18:43:34 of things come up fairly option, so I think we do -- this
18:43:37 is a good example for everyone that we need to look at
18:43:40 our tree code if things like this come up when we need
18:43:44 And then I just had a question for you.
18:43:47 Is the tree that was pruned, is that a live oak or a
18:43:53 laurel oak?
18:44:16 >> It is -- I believe it is a laurel, but -- is it
18:44:19 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
18:44:22 That is one of the reasons we need to look at the tree
18:44:24 code, because those are different.
18:44:27 And laurel oaks limbs are falling off all the time.
18:44:30 I can tell you because I had them falling on my house and
18:44:30 my car.
18:44:32 So -- we will be looking at this.
18:44:35 >> I want you to understand in no way any criticism or
18:44:37 difficulty with staff.
18:44:40 They have worked very hard to work with us.
18:44:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close --
18:44:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well let me -- Julia, so your
18:44:50 recommendation is that we go ahead with this and then
18:44:53 that between first and second reading, you will address
18:44:54 this other issue, right?
18:44:55 >>JULIA COLE: Yes.
18:44:58 I think what needs to happen is you could go ahead, move
18:45:01 this on first reading with the change sheet and just to
18:45:03 leave this status quo.
18:45:05 I will investigate the particular issue and opine to you
18:45:09 at second reading whether or not -- what we have to do to
18:45:12 address this as well.
18:45:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder?
18:45:17 Moved and seconded that we close.
18:45:20 All in favor signify by saying aye.
18:45:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am confident with all that praying,
18:45:26 the tree is going to live.
18:45:34 No, I'll move this ordinance for first reading with the
18:45:38 staff conditions that were noted and agreed to by -- by
18:45:39 Miss Pearson.
18:45:41 Yes, ma'am.
18:45:44 >> They actually are on your agenda on parks and
18:45:45 recreation note.
18:45:46 That needs to be added.
18:45:48 I typed that in there for you.
18:45:51 >> If I can -- if I can, I am sorry to interrupt, Mr.
18:45:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, sir.
18:45:55 >> I may be speculating, but I have some strange
18:45:58 suspicion that note relating to Parks and Recreation
18:46:02 normally does not appear on the site plan, and this
18:46:06 request to be added might be a way that the Park and Rec
18:46:10 Department is attempting to address this tree issue and
18:46:14 may be the detriment ultimately to the petitioner.
18:46:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was going to exclude it.
18:46:19 >> I asked Miss Cole whether it be placed -- I asked Miss
18:46:21 Cole whether it would be appropriate to have it placed
18:46:26 Could it be removed at second reading and she indicated
18:46:29 it would be appropriate for Council to be able to remove
18:46:32 that note if council so chose.
18:46:36 >>JULIA COLE: Julia Cole, Legal Department.
18:46:40 I would rather have it placed on the site plan, and if I
18:46:44 feel legally that is an inappropriate note given the
18:46:46 conversation we had today and I looked at the code, then
18:46:48 legally I can make that clear on the record and I am
18:46:51 comfortable that I can do that.
18:46:54 If I don't put it on there and then you would absolutely
18:46:55 have to take it back to first reading.
18:46:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just make sure you remind us at
18:47:00 second reading to address it.
18:47:05 So I will move the ordinance as follows, including modify
18:47:10 waiver number 1 and note number 5 chapter 20.5 instead of
18:47:14 20.05 to provide the actual building setbacks and
18:47:16 development standards as part of the site plan and also
18:47:22 that the Park and Rec Department have final authority to
18:47:26 review the plan at site -- at the plan review.
18:47:28 I think is the language.
18:47:32 And -- the ordinance will read as follows, an ordinance
18:47:35 approving a Special Use Permit S-2 approving place of
18:47:40 religious assembly in a RS-60 single-family zoning
18:47:46 district 18 to 1, 1803 east shadowlawn avenue and 18 to
18:47:49 2 E. McBerry Street provided an effective date.
18:47:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So moved and seconded.
18:47:57 Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
18:47:59 Moved and seconded.
18:48:01 All in favor say aye.
18:48:07 >> Motion carries with Caetano and Miranda being absent.
18:48:12 Second reading.
18:48:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
18:48:27 >> We were moving to item 5.
18:48:31 Item 5 on your agenda -- council,
18:48:34 >>ABBYE FEELEY, Land Development Coordination is located
18:48:39 at 240 2 West State Street.
18:48:43 The request is from RO-1, business professional office to
18:48:48 PD, medical and business professional office.
18:48:50 There are four waivers associated with the request this
18:48:55 One is to reduce the required buffer along the west from
18:49:00 15 feet with a 6-foot masonry wall to 9 foot with a
18:49:02 six-foot masonry wall.
18:49:10 To reduce required places from 30 spaces to 20 places.
18:49:14 And access for a nonresidential parking lot to access a
18:49:18 local street, state street, and the last it so reduce the
18:49:20 required sidewalk from 6 foot to 5 feet for the existing
18:49:25 conditions along Armenia Avenue.
18:49:28 They are requesting to construct a 5,000-square-foot
18:49:29 medical office building.
18:49:33 It is located within the west Tampa overlay district and
18:49:37 has been reviewed and approved by Mike Callahan, urban
18:49:38 design coordinator.
18:49:46 The proposed building setbacks are as follows: 1.1-foot
18:49:50 on the South, 8 foot 6 inches on the north, 45 feet on
18:49:53 the west and 9 feet on the east, the maximum building
18:50:01 height is 45 feet two inches.
18:50:15 The current RO-1 that is on this piece of property is for
18:50:21 a 4400-square-foot business professional office.
18:50:26 This is an increase of 600 square feet and the shift from
18:50:29 business professional to medical as well as retaining
18:50:30 business professional.
18:50:32 The site here is shown in green.
18:50:34 The RO-1.
18:50:38 There is RO to the South which is an office and RO to the
18:50:41 north which is an office.
18:50:46 CI zoning immediately across Armenia, armory to the
18:50:50 Armenia is here to the east.
18:50:51 State to the north.
18:50:53 Cypress just a block north.
18:51:00 And Lemon street to the South.
18:51:07 An aerial of the property.
18:51:15 Shown here in yellow.
18:51:18 The site is pretty clear right now.
18:51:23 This is a site view looking South from state.
18:51:28 This is also from State looking at the subject property.
18:51:32 This to the west of the subject property.
18:51:36 This is also a shot west.
18:51:39 This is law office to the north.
18:51:41 This is the subject property in the background.
18:51:45 So this is off Armenia looking South.
18:51:48 This is standing on the subject site looking north.
18:51:54 The parking -- parking here.
18:51:59 For another small office that is located on State.
18:52:03 This is the office relation type office.
18:52:06 The other RO to the South.
18:52:08 Parking off of Armenia.
18:52:11 The park.
18:52:13 Northeast corner.
18:52:15 This may look familiar to you.
18:52:18 This is on Armenia.
18:52:20 The office equipment store.
18:52:24 So there is a mix of uses around there.
18:52:30 Predominantly office type uses.
18:52:37 Staff did find the in consistent predominantly for
18:52:38 technical issues.
18:52:41 Page 2 of the staff report, minor modifications required
18:52:44 by Land Development Coordination in between first and
18:52:44 second readings.
18:52:47 If you will look on page 3 of the staff report,
18:52:51 Transportation is finding the request inconsistent based
18:52:54 on the request for a waiver of the parking.
18:52:58 You will see that under bullet one, that the reduction
18:53:02 from 30 spaces to 24 spaces, they are objecting to that.
18:53:04 And I believe they are here to speak to that objection
18:53:07 this evening.
18:53:13 the second objection relating to third and fourth were
18:53:15 comments related to the way waivers were worded.
18:53:17 I have worked with the petitioner.
18:53:20 They submitted prior to the hearing showing me that
18:53:22 technical modifications were made.
18:53:24 They changed to 10-foot.
18:53:25 Everything looks good there.
18:53:28 So if all of those changes are made between first and
18:53:30 second reading it would be fine with the exception of
18:53:32 that Transportation objection related to the reduction in
18:53:34 the required parking.
18:53:36 Staff is available for any questions.
18:53:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
18:53:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
18:53:42 I have a question about how you arrived at your decision.
18:53:45 When I looked at -- when I was looking at the land use
18:53:50 map, and basically the professional offices have been the
18:53:54 conversion of single-family homes into one-story
18:54:00 professional offices that only are one lot in depth.
18:54:03 As I look up and down this portion of Armenia, it appears
18:54:10 that that -- that's the pattern with one -- one lot in
18:54:14 depth and two lots in depth and it has got -- from my
18:54:21 reading of this, it has relation to the west, to the
18:54:23 north and to the South of the second lot.
18:54:25 So that's why I wonder how you came up with this
18:54:30 >>ABBYE FEELEY: On this recommendation, full look at
18:54:33 your site plan, the building is shifted almost the entire
18:54:39 second lot to the front on Armenia.
18:54:43 The total massive front of the scale to front on Armenia
18:54:47 and then setback adjacent to the residential portion.
18:54:50 Although it is a double lot and it is more massive, the
18:54:53 predominant mass of that building is pushed all the way
18:54:55 up to Armenia which is more consistent with the overlay
18:54:59 So it is a little bit different.
18:55:02 A little further South on Armenia.
18:55:04 Two other office buildings that we have done directly
18:55:08 across from the armory two-story in nature as well.
18:55:10 Immediately surrounding this which has a couple of
18:55:13 parcels that may be ripe for redevelopment.
18:55:18 There was other compatible mass and scale.
18:55:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: They are not asking for any waivers
18:55:23 to the west, any --
18:55:24 >>ABBYE FEELEY: No.
18:55:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No waivers or setbacks.
18:55:29 >>ABBYE FEELEY: A 45-foot setback.
18:55:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I hadn't realized that.
18:55:50 >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Tony Garcia, planning
18:55:51 commission staff.
18:55:53 I have been sworn in.
18:55:56 This is located just outside historic west Tampa and it
18:56:02 is in proximity of Fort Hesterly Armory located right
18:56:03 here to the southeast of the site.
18:56:08 It has a land use designation of 35.
18:56:11 On the western side of this section of Armenia is
18:56:14 residential 20 which has locational criteria standards
18:56:18 allows consideration of neighborhood Commercial and
18:56:21 office types of uses in over here is our new Commercial
18:56:25 35 which is our old heavy Commercial 24 designation that
18:56:29 allows Commercial intensive types of uses.
18:56:32 As far as how this area has developed on Armenia, it is
18:56:36 becoming a professional office district.
18:56:38 Miss Feeley is correct on how the development occurred on
18:56:39 this particular segment.
18:56:42 The council recently in the last couple of months have
18:56:45 approved specifically and let me show you on an aerial
18:56:46 over here.
18:56:51 Here is one of the two -- two-story professional offices
18:56:54 that she has related to you directly across from the
18:56:57 armory and directly adjacent to the north with one that
18:57:00 was recently approved by this council for approximately
18:57:02 10,000 square feet.
18:57:06 A two-story -- a two-story project which was recently
18:57:07 approved by this council.
18:57:10 You do have a professional office use to the north of
18:57:12 this site, but you do have residential to the west.
18:57:14 What is significant about it was the same reason we came
18:57:18 to the same conclusion that city staff did was because of
18:57:21 the way the applicant was able to go ahead and design the
18:57:24 building and provide actually -- I am going to show you
18:57:25 this aerial.
18:57:27 Where the highest point of the building which is
18:57:30 basically 45 feet with architectural features is right
18:57:32 here at the actual corner of the parcel.
18:57:35 So at the corner of State and Armenia is where you have
18:57:38 your highest point of the structure, and then it is set
18:57:42 back very nicely with a considerable buffer from the
18:57:44 residential to the west of approximately 45 feet.
18:57:47 The applicant we feel has done a very good job in being
18:57:49 sensitive to the residential presence to the west.
18:57:53 This will be similar in design and in scale to the other
18:57:59 structures that are farther to the South that she
18:58:04 9 feet taller than the other structures and this goes to
18:58:04 about 45 feet.
18:58:08 The Planning Commission staff based on those facts that I
18:58:11 gave you find this consistent with the comprehensive
18:58:13 Thank you.
18:58:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions.
18:58:30 >> Good evening, Henry hicks here as the petitioner and
18:58:31 I have been sworn in.
18:58:35 I would just like to point out the only real issue that
18:58:40 seems to be of concern at all has to do with the parking.
18:58:43 And I would like to just point out that this originally
18:58:48 was zoned for an office building.
18:58:52 By changing it to medical, we obviously have a necessary
18:58:56 increase in the need for parking, and there is already
18:59:00 available off-site directly on the street three parking
18:59:05 So in essence what we are really looking at is a -- is a
18:59:10 waiver that essentially is about three parking spaces.
18:59:13 So we don't feel like that's a great deviation, and we
18:59:14 think it is a nice project.
18:59:17 And by the way, concerning the issue about the two lots
18:59:20 and whatnot, I think there is a reality to this
18:59:22 particular area.
18:59:24 And one of the realities is that there will be this
18:59:27 Commercial development with the armory and whatnot, and
18:59:30 there already is an industrial across the street from
18:59:31 Armenia from it.
18:59:34 I think this provides a very nice buffer for the
18:59:35 residences to the west.
18:59:38 And we try to be very sensitive to them in terms of doing
18:59:42 this development.
18:59:44 I will be happy to answer any questions.
18:59:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
18:59:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We received a letter from a neighbor
18:59:53 to the west asking for the wall to be taller.
18:59:55 They specifically asked for a 10-foot wall.
18:59:58 I don't know if that's legal, but if it were, would you
18:59:59 do it?
19:00:02 I guess we would have to ask our attorney.
19:00:05 A 10-foot wall legal?
19:00:08 This is a PD so --
19:00:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We do 8-foot walls.
19:00:14 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Abby feel Lee.
19:00:16 It is a site plan development.
19:00:20 Standard wall regulations allow for 6 foot in height.
19:00:22 They could if they wished ask to increase that through
19:00:24 your approval to 10 foot.
19:00:28 I don't know if staff would feel real comfortable with
19:00:32 Even when we did the condo on Bayshore and Bay to Bay
19:00:35 they wanted a really big buffer, and 10 feet is quite
19:00:39 enormous, especially right next to a single-family house.
19:00:42 You look outside and it is going to be not so pleasant
19:00:44 and not much sunshine coming in the windows on that side
19:00:46 of the house.
19:00:50 You know, I that is completely up to the petitioner.
19:00:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Not the next-door neighbor but State
19:00:56 street, behind you.
19:00:58 Said the light was shining through her bedroom.
19:01:01 That's why she wanted the wall there.
19:01:03 >> I know miss Stevens and I have been very sensitive to
19:01:07 In the previous zoning that was done on this, there was a
19:01:12 specific note in the plan that provided that lighting
19:01:15 would be done such a fashion as to not to shine in her
19:01:22 windows because she has a fairly small side yard there I
19:01:24 will be happy to build a 10-foot wall.
19:01:26 I don't think she will like a 10-foot wall.
19:01:30 I had a 8-foot wall attempted to be put behind my house
19:01:33 once in Hyde Park and almost seemed like a handball
19:01:35 It is quite severe.
19:01:38 10 feet would be -- but we would be happy to do it if
19:01:41 that was something that was concern for her.
19:01:44 I think she is concerned about having ambient light
19:01:48 coming into her windows and we will make sure that is not
19:01:50 the case anyway.
19:01:53 >>GWEN MILLER: You said you will put a 10-foot, but will
19:01:57 you talk to her and see if maybe not the 10 but maybe an
19:02:02 You said a 10 would be too much, how about an 8?
19:02:06 >> Yes, I will be happy to talk to her about it.
19:02:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Before you come back --
19:02:11 >> Before we come back for second reading.
19:02:14 >>JULIA COLE: The problem is he would need a waiver.
19:02:16 The waiver would have to be part of your motion today to
19:02:21 be added between first and second reading.
19:02:22 >>GWEN MILLER: To add in --
19:02:24 >>JULIA COLE: You would be adding.
19:02:28 He wouldn't have to build the ten feet, but he at least
19:02:31 would have the waiver on his site plan.
19:02:34 >>GWEN MILLER: She might not want.
19:02:38 But put it there in case she wants it.
19:02:42 >> Mr. Hicks, they are recommending along that section of
19:02:46 the wall they could put four or ten or 14-foot trees to
19:02:51 add to that buffer for just that segment that abuts the
19:02:54 bedroom area so it wouldn't necessarily be a concrete
19:02:59 buffer but more of a vegetative buffer that would allow
19:03:00 some light to come through.
19:03:03 Because when that concrete goes up, no light comes
19:03:09 So I don't know if she would be open to that.
19:03:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
19:03:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Hicks, help me out with the site
19:03:18 Sometimes they are not easy to read.
19:03:20 What is the height of the building on the west side.
19:03:23 >> There is no building on the west side.
19:03:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Of the building --
19:03:30 >> What is the height?
19:03:34 On the west side of the building?
19:03:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Closest to the property owner we were
19:03:46 just talking about.
19:03:46 >> 35 feet.
19:03:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 35 feet.
19:03:49 And we were talking about --
19:03:56 >> I think it is back 45 feet from that property line.
19:03:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That was my last question.
19:04:02 How close to the property line is the building?
19:04:03 >> About 45 feet.
19:04:07 What is the light issue, the parking lights?
19:04:08 >> Yes.
19:04:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But parking lights -- we have ways
19:04:12 and we need to make sure the notes are very
19:04:16 straightforward that they would be direction alley inward
19:04:18 and not toward her.
19:04:20 >> My understanding that is what the code requires
19:04:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That is usually the way.
19:04:28 I agree, I mean I think a six-foot wall -- as long as it
19:04:34 is a masonry wall and not a PVC wall or whatever is an
19:04:38 adequate buffer on that side.
19:04:43 Let's see what else.
19:04:46 That's all I --
19:04:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions from Council?
19:04:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
19:04:53 I thought that the suggestion made by Miss Feeley about
19:04:57 the additional vegetation was a great idea.
19:05:07 Do we need to put that on the site plan now?
19:05:08 >>ABBYE FEELEY: You are going to plant.
19:05:12 Our buffer says -- right, that's what I was saying.
19:05:14 27-130 does require a planting there.
19:05:18 It is going to be shrubs and trees on center.
19:05:21 Typically 20 feet on center, but maybe you want to say
19:05:25 for the x portion or the 50 feet of -- wherever you think
19:05:30 that is that you would plant for, you know, 10 foot at
19:05:35 time of planting to specify to specify that so you don't
19:05:38 have to wait for those trees to get a buffer versus a
19:05:43 >> Can you give me just one moment.
19:05:44 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Sure.
19:05:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The other question I have, and I just
19:05:53 remembered Mr. Hicks, the other question I had is access
19:05:54 to the local street.
19:05:57 Are we accessing -- are you also accessing out to Armenia
19:05:59 or no?
19:06:00 >> No.
19:06:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just to State.
19:06:05 >> Just so you understand this property has an alleyway.
19:06:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yeah, I see it.
19:06:11 >> State Street on one side and the alley on the other
19:06:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And you will improve the alley or the
19:06:17 alley is already improved to be used --
19:06:22 >> Yes, the alley is, yes.
19:06:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess the only other concern I
19:06:27 would have if I was residential on State Street that that
19:06:30 all of a sudden becomes more of a thoroughfare.
19:06:34 Any discussion about directionalizing the exiting traffic
19:06:38 back out to Armenia or anything like that?
19:06:41 I don't know if it is feasible on your site plan.
19:06:43 Would you want to do that --
19:06:47 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Mr. Dingfelder, there is an RO on this
19:06:51 railroad, an RO-1 with the same access point.
19:06:53 Staff didn't -- there wasn't any channelization of the
19:06:56 prior and for an office building of similar size.
19:06:58 So staff didn't necessarily feel a need for
19:07:03 channelization of this.
19:07:04 >> Let me go back to the neighbor's concern.
19:07:09 One of the concerns I have about committing to trees or
19:07:12 mature trees on that particular area is it is very
19:07:15 possible that we may have to commit to some type of
19:07:18 retention pond there relative to drainage.
19:07:23 It is our intention to do underwater -- or underground
19:07:26 retention to a certain degree, but I don't know whether
19:07:29 that is going to create an issue for us from an
19:07:32 engineering standpoint on that particular area.
19:07:34 I don't know the best way to handle it.
19:07:38 I think that frankly my neighbor is going to be fine by
19:07:40 what we do, because it is going to be completely
19:07:45 consistent with what was already in place with the
19:07:49 existing zoning.
19:07:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to share with you -- we
19:07:54 all received a letter from the neighbor and her daughter.
19:07:55 They are not happy.
19:07:57 They don't want us to approve this at all.
19:07:59 They are very concerned about the impact have a medical
19:08:03 And I think that -- and they -- and they want -- I mean
19:08:07 this is a change of use from residential to a medical
19:08:09 They want to make sure that they are buffered properly
19:08:12 and that's what we are trying to do is to ensure their
19:08:17 Soar we are trying to be protective of the neighbor
19:08:19 because you really are injecting a Commercial use into a
19:08:20 residential neighborhood.
19:08:22 So you have to do something.
19:08:23 So --
19:08:26 >> Let me just -- let me just point something out.
19:08:28 It is not a residential use.
19:08:32 We are not asking to be changed from a residential use to
19:08:34 an office medical use.
19:08:38 Right now it is an office use.
19:08:41 Right now the parking spaces that are already designed
19:08:47 for the approved -- for what it is right now are only
19:08:51 five feet from miss Steven's property.
19:08:55 We have redesigned it so they are nine feet away from her
19:09:00 We -- this plan actually is an enhancement to what she is
19:09:03 going to be experiencing in terms of the development of
19:09:05 this property.
19:09:10 That's why I don't -- I can't -- I understand the concern
19:09:13 that the Council has to citizens coming and objecting to
19:09:13 a plan.
19:09:15 No question about it.
19:09:19 She was here to object to the plan back in 2006 when the
19:09:26 Council approved this to be a RO-1, 4500-square-foot
19:09:31 professional office building with a six-foot wall,
19:09:37 concrete wall, with a parking setback of five feet.
19:09:39 We are now providing more of a setback not changing
19:09:41 anything else.
19:09:46 So -- what we are doing is an enhancement to what she
19:09:47 already has.
19:09:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I ask one more question.
19:09:55 Mr. Hicks not to kick a horse or anything but in her
19:09:57 letter she said we had denied it.
19:10:00 I remember when we approved the RO-1 but I don't remember
19:10:02 a denial in between.
19:10:08 >> There has never been a denial.
19:10:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
19:10:14 So -- this is just a modification of the approved use.
19:10:19 >> It is not only just a modification, it is an
19:10:25 enhancement compared to what is already in place there.
19:10:28 Miss Saul-Sena doesn't seem to --
19:10:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think I -- honestly, it depends on
19:10:34 what kind of medical facility is there.
19:10:39 I would be very upset if a pediatrician moved next to me.
19:10:43 If it is a pediatrician's office it would be wildly busy.
19:10:47 Other medical uses are less busy. Do you know what kind
19:10:50 of physician will use this medical office.
19:10:52 >> Right now the intention is for half of the building to
19:10:55 be used for the office for a plastic surgeon, and the
19:10:59 other half to be used by me, which I have a law practice.
19:11:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That sounds pretty quiet.
19:11:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
19:11:09 It is a public hearing.
19:11:12 Anyone wish to address council on this petition?
19:11:15 Anyone here wish to address council on this petition?
19:11:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
19:11:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
19:11:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor by signifying aye.
19:11:26 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I have a revision sheet for this one
19:11:27 that I provided.
19:11:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
19:11:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That is the letter.
19:11:42 By the way, I watched that "nip/tuck" show so I don't
19:11:44 know how quiet it is going to be.
19:11:48 I move for first reading including Miss Feeley's
19:11:53 excellent revision sheet dated and all the conditions
19:11:57 agreed to by Mr. Hicks.
19:12:01 An ordinance rezoning property 22 West State Street in
19:12:04 the City of Tampa, Florida.
19:12:05 In section 1.
19:12:09 Classification RO-1 residential office, office business
19:12:13 professional to PD, planned development office medical
19:12:18 and business professional provided by an effective date.
19:12:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second?
19:12:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
19:12:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
19:12:25 All in favor signify by saying aye.
19:12:30 >> Motion carried with Caetano and Miranda being absent.
19:12:35 Second reading and adoption will be on January 7, 2010 at
19:13:10 9:30 A.M.
19:13:14 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Abbye Feeley, Land Development
19:13:16 Coordination council.
19:13:22 Special use application V09-445 located at 2415 S. Himes
19:13:33 Avenue also known as Plant High School.
19:13:45 This is -- this is for the request this evening that is
19:13:50 before you is for the expansion and expansion to plant,
19:13:52 not for the school as a whole.
19:13:56 The expansion that is being requested is to construct a
19:14:01 16638-square-foot two-story building addition.
19:14:07 The original school built in '26 was a special use
19:14:10 established prior to schools being a special use within
19:14:11 the city.
19:14:15 So all of that obviously gets to stay the way that it is.
19:14:19 Vehicular access is currently located on South Dale
19:14:22 Mabry, sterling avenue, S. Himes Avenue and San Miguel
19:14:26 The proposed two-story edition on the southwest portion
19:14:29 of the site and I will show you that on the aerial land
19:14:30 are he place an existing building on-site.
19:14:35 The setbacks specific to just that expansion is 46 feet 2
19:14:39 inches from the South property line and 355 feet from the
19:14:42 west property line which is Dale Mabry highway.
19:14:44 The expansion does not require additional parking as it
19:14:48 will replace temporary student stations currently on the
19:14:50 site that are housed in portables.
19:14:54 This is to make permanent student stations versus the
19:14:57 temporary student stations that are currently located in
19:14:58 the portables.
19:15:01 So it would be -- be a wash.
19:15:06 The only outstanding comment is upon Transportation, they
19:15:13 would like to see the City of Tampa and SREF parking
19:15:15 calculations be added to the site plan within the site
19:15:18 planning table and I have discussed that, and they will
19:15:21 be doing that in between first and second readings.
19:15:30 Let me go ahead and show you the site.
19:15:33 This is the zoning atlas.
19:15:38 The whole site is RS-100 which is residential single
19:15:39 family 100.
19:15:42 As I said originally built in 1926.
19:15:53 Schools are a special use in this zoning category.
19:15:55 I might have to zoom in, but there is a little blue
19:15:59 triangle you will see on your aerial that I provided you
19:16:01 and that is the area that we are speaking about this
19:16:04 evening to where the expansion is going to be occurring.
19:16:07 This existing building here will be removed, and the
19:16:08 expansion will be placed there.
19:16:11 It is my understanding and I believe miss Grimes will
19:16:15 speak to this that these portables here will be removed
19:16:19 as these temporary student stations will be replaced as
19:16:25 permanent student stations in the new expansion.
19:16:30 There is a photo of the subject area we are talking
19:16:37 I don't know if you can -- zoom in a little bit.
19:16:41 A couple of times the weather we have been having is not
19:16:43 very conducive to good pictures.
19:16:45 There is currently a fence.
19:16:49 On the other side of that fence is a pretty good ditch.
19:16:50 Stormwater ditch.
19:16:53 We have a little picture of that not that -- it is kind
19:16:56 of hard to get it through the fence there.
19:17:00 And also you can see there is strong vegetative buffer on
19:17:03 the other side, the residential portion of the property.
19:17:06 This is the building immediately to the north of the
19:17:07 subject area.
19:17:15 This is a view looking back toward Dale Mabry.
19:17:16 Went around the outside.
19:17:19 This is the back portion of where that addition is going
19:17:20 to go.
19:17:23 This is Sterling.
19:17:27 And there is single-family residential on both sides of
19:17:28 Sterling there.
19:17:32 This is Sterling down the middle here and then the single
19:17:34 family to the east.
19:17:35 Single family to the west.
19:17:39 And these are -- what I did was I just worked from
19:17:42 Sterling back toward Dale Mabry and you can see the
19:17:44 single family that directly abuts where the expansion is
19:17:47 going to go.
19:17:52 Single family.
19:17:53 Single family.
19:17:59 The day I was out, there was the Sterling entrance was
19:18:05 closed, the gates.
19:18:08 As previously stated, I also did provide special use
19:18:13 criteria for you on pages 2 and 3 of the staff report.
19:18:18 It says calculations are added to the site plan and then
19:18:21 the plan will be found consistent with City of Tampa
19:18:24 Thank you.
19:18:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
19:18:26 Two questions.
19:18:31 One, I was reading through the staff report and then the
19:18:37 -- the applicable statute, and -- but -- and I couldn't
19:18:41 sort out exactly why they need to come for approval at
19:18:45 all, because a lot of school facilities seem to be exempt
19:18:48 from local regulations.
19:18:51 >>ABBYE FEELEY: That relates back to -- and I will ask
19:18:54 Julia to elaborate further, but that relates back to the
19:18:57 Growth Management act and the interlocal agreement that
19:19:00 the city has with the school board through our
19:19:03 comprehensive plan for siting of school facilities and
19:19:06 the school facilities element.
19:19:11 So the amount of -- the number of students I believe
19:19:15 triggered that that is will be added about 5% through the
19:19:18 interlocal it now requires that we do have that come in
19:19:22 as a special use, and that's why when we looked at the
19:19:25 special use, we deferred back to the Florida statute for
19:19:29 the educational facilities which limits our reviews
19:19:31 strictly to that expansion.
19:19:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
19:19:35 And the other clarification I needed was if you put the
19:19:41 arrow back -- the aerial back up.
19:19:49 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I don't know where I put it.
19:19:52 I put it away.
19:19:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We have a bunch of extras if you want
19:20:00 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yeah, here it is.
19:20:03 It got hidden in there.
19:20:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
19:20:14 Then slide it up just a little bit.
19:20:17 Okay, so the blue area is the -- is the proposed
19:20:19 construction area they are knocking down.
19:20:22 I think the auto shop or whatever that was.
19:20:26 And -- but just clarification, the two houses, the ones
19:20:29 that are abutting -- directly abutting it.
19:20:33 You said you were walking up the street shooting the
19:20:37 front yards and you shot multiple houses, two houses
19:20:40 directly abutting the construction.
19:20:43 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I showed you a picture here that looked
19:20:46 north to the gate that has a single family and has a
19:20:50 driveway that accesses Sterling and the first house here,
19:20:53 yes, and the second house.
19:20:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
19:20:56 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Those would be.
19:21:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
19:21:10 >> Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.
19:21:13 I have been sworn.
19:21:20 Just a couple more comments to add on to Miss Feeley's
19:21:23 This is located in the South Tampa area.
19:21:25 We all know the location of Plant High School.
19:21:30 Just to let you know the land use classification is major
19:21:34 public, semi public that allowing types of uses special
19:21:37 uses, schools, Universities, hospitals, airports, those
19:21:39 types of things.
19:21:46 There is no FAR restrictions on this property because the
19:21:49 need for them and the capacity for them to go ahead to
19:21:51 expand to the growing needs of the surrounding area that
19:21:52 it serves.
19:21:54 As you can see, here is Dale Mabry.
19:21:58 Here is the land use category of CMU-35 and you have
19:22:01 residential 6 a low density land use category which is
19:22:04 basically to the west of Dale Mabry, to the South of the
19:22:07 Here is Residential 10 located to the east of the school
19:22:10 and, of course, Residential 6 located to the north.
19:22:14 Recreational space which identifies the golf course and
19:22:20 close proximity to the school.
19:22:23 She has already gone into detail what the purpose of the
19:22:24 expansion of the school is for.
19:22:28 There are policies within the school siting section of
19:22:29 the comprehensive plan that allow for this type of
19:22:33 provision to be proposed and to be supportive of the
19:22:36 comprehensive plan as they exist in it.
19:22:38 Their request is modest as by standards for public
19:22:41 schools and especially for high schools of this size,
19:22:45 especially with the proximity to a major arterial road
19:22:46 directly to the west of the site.
19:22:49 Planning Commission staff based on all those findings of
19:22:52 fact see no additional impact based on the modest request
19:22:55 being provided by or being recommended by the school.
19:23:00 The Planning Commission staff, therefore, finds the pro
19:23:05 proposed request consistent with the comprehensive plan.
19:23:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?
19:23:09 >>JULIA COLE: Julia Cole, legal department.
19:23:12 Mr. Dingfelder already started to address the issue, but
19:23:14 I did want to get up prior to us moving forward with our
19:23:18 public hearing and discuss legally this process, because
19:23:20 it is a little bit different than the processes you
19:23:23 typically see for a Special Use Permit.
19:23:27 This is a Special Use Permit to approve an expansion of
19:23:31 an existing school, Plant High School.
19:23:34 And as a result of it being a public school, you are
19:23:37 reviewing it through your Special Use Permit process, but
19:23:39 you also are reviewing this through the limitations in
19:23:44 Florida statutes for school siting, as well as the
19:23:47 interlocal agreement that statutorily we entered into
19:23:50 with the school board to set forth the processes for the
19:23:53 review of both the siting of new schools and also the
19:23:55 expansion of existing schools.
19:24:00 Specifically what Florida statutes say, the process is
19:24:04 for the expansion of the school is in coming forward to
19:24:08 make a request, follow whatever process in your local
19:24:11 government and that's why they are here for a Special Use
19:24:15 Permit, but that the local governing body may impose
19:24:17 reasonable development standards and conditions on the
19:24:20 expansion only.
19:24:22 For your review tonight is very limited.
19:24:28 It is only as to the expansion and the local governing
19:24:31 body and that's why it has to come through this process.
19:24:33 It does need to have a hearing in front of City Council
19:24:36 because you are the local governing body.
19:24:40 You may impose reasonable conditions and development
19:24:43 standards on the expansion only, and in a manner
19:24:46 consistent with another Florida statutory provision
19:24:47 relates to the expenditure of funds.
19:24:50 You can't ask them to do something that they have no
19:24:51 legal authority to spend funds on.
19:24:55 But that is the context of this hearing, and I wanted to
19:24:58 make that clear from the onset.
19:25:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: They can't share that gates' money
19:25:01 with us or anything?
19:25:07 Just kidding, just kidding.
19:25:13 >> Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of City Council,
19:25:17 Gina Grimes with the law firm of Hill, Ward and Henderson
19:25:21 and represent the Hillsborough County school board on
19:25:22 this application this evening.
19:25:24 We have some representatives from the school board.
19:25:28 We have Kathy Valdez, the Chief Facilities Officer, as
19:25:31 well as Lorraine Duffy-Suarez who is the major of their
19:25:34 Growth Management and Planning Department.
19:25:37 Also this evening, we have some people from the
19:25:41 We have Principal Rob Nelson, Assistant Principal Laura
19:25:49 Figarota and Assistant Principal Gina Felota.
19:25:57 As you have heard from both Julia and -- and Abbey.
19:26:01 This proposal is a modest edition, a 16,638-square-foot
19:26:05 proposed classroom addition sand proposed to add 16
19:26:09 I am going to begin by saying the intent and the purpose
19:26:12 of this addition is not to increase enrollment at the
19:26:14 school in any way, shape or form.
19:26:17 There are two reasons why we are applying for this
19:26:19 special use for this expansion.
19:26:22 First reason is because of the class size amendment to
19:26:24 the Florida Constitution that passed.
19:26:28 We are operating under a deadline that we have to meet
19:26:31 that class size limitation requirement by August of next
19:26:36 And the size limitations for high schools is 25 students
19:26:38 per classroom so we will need more classroom space.
19:26:41 That is one of the reasons we are asking for -- for
19:26:42 approval of the addition.
19:26:47 The second reason as mentioned by -- by Abbey the
19:26:49 eliminate nation of ten portable classrooms that already
19:26:51 exist on the plant site.
19:26:54 There is a statutory requirement, statute statutory
19:26:57 provisions that require you or suggest you or encourage
19:27:00 you to reduce the number of portable classrooms you have
19:27:01 on a site.
19:27:03 And if you don't do that, you are required to maintain
19:27:04 those to certain standards.
19:27:09 Those standards are very high and very costly, and it is
19:27:12 more cost effective to replace the portable with
19:27:13 permanent classroom space.
19:27:15 There is also a district-wide policy in Hillsborough
19:27:18 County where they have tried to eliminate as many
19:27:21 portables as possible and have virtually eliminated
19:27:25 hundreds of portables throughout the school system.
19:27:29 I want to go back and touch on something that Julia just
19:27:31 mentioned to you and that is the limitations on the
19:27:35 As she said, the -- our application and your -- the scope
19:27:37 of your review is for the addition only.
19:27:40 And I want to go -- I want to mention that, because I
19:27:42 believe there might be individuals here this evening that
19:27:45 may want to address other portions of the site, other
19:27:48 buildings on the site, and we are asking that we focus
19:27:53 the testimony and the review just on the addition area.
19:28:00 Your own code, section 27-294 provides that any special
19:28:03 use that is existing is already deemed a conforming use,
19:28:06 but if you add on, you have to go through the special use
19:28:09 process and of course that is what we are doing.
19:28:12 Also Florida statutory provision and I have included all
19:28:15 of these code sections and statutory provisions in the
19:28:17 documentation that you have in front of you, but there is
19:28:21 a Florida statutory provision that says that whenever you
19:28:24 have an existing school site, it says it shall be
19:28:26 considered consistent with the applicable local
19:28:28 government comp plan.
19:28:30 So we know the existing school site is already consistent
19:28:33 with the comp plan.
19:28:41 Also, miss -- Julia mentioned that your -- that your
19:28:43 review is limited to the expansion only.
19:28:47 I want to go one step further and mention also that in
19:28:49 imposing conditions related to the expansion, those
19:28:53 conditions have to be consistent with what is called the
19:28:58 SREF, the SREF.
19:29:02 You cannot impose chance are in conflict with the SREF
19:29:04 and this will be important with respect to the parking
19:29:07 issue and I will discuss on that in a little more detail
19:29:11 Julia also mentioned the interlocal agreement you entered
19:29:12 into last summer with the school board.
19:29:15 I want to actually just read a very short excerpt out of
19:29:18 that interlocal agreement which says that the city -- the
19:29:22 city has determined that schools are the cornerstones of
19:29:25 effective neighborhood design and a focal point for the
19:29:26 development of neighborhood plans.
19:29:28 You have already recognized the importance of schools and
19:29:31 the importance not just of schools but schools in
19:29:41 I want to also just walk you through the site plan in
19:29:44 little bit more detail.
19:29:47 A copy of the site plan is included in those materials as
19:29:52 And just going to touch on some of the points that
19:29:52 weren't mentioned earlier.
19:29:55 The size of the addition and the location of the
19:29:59 The addition, which is located right here along the
19:30:08 southern property line, is -- is -- this addition is
19:30:11 approximately 166 feet long and about 75 feet wide.
19:30:14 And you can see on the Eastern portion of the -- of the
19:30:18 site is an existing building, sometimes referred to as
19:30:19 South hall.
19:30:23 And I just would like for you to note that this proposed
19:30:26 addition is approximately half the size of the existing
19:30:27 South hall.
19:30:30 The location is also important because one of the things
19:30:32 that the school board did when they chose the location of
19:30:35 the addition was that they made sure it was in a location
19:30:40 that wasn't displacing parking, on-site parking.
19:30:43 This portion right here where the addition is to be
19:30:46 located, there currently exists there, as you mentioned
19:30:50 Mr. Dingfelder, the old auto body -- or auto shop.
19:30:54 Now it is being used as an ROTC building.
19:30:58 That is an approximate 12,000-square-foot building.
19:31:01 Our addition is 16,000 square feet -- I am sorry a
19:31:06 4,000-square-foot and an addition of 16 and net increase
19:31:07 of 12,000.
19:31:10 Keep in mind that we are removing the 10 portable
19:31:13 classrooms and so with that, we are having a net increase
19:31:17 of only six classrooms on the site, and again that is to
19:31:21 accommodate the smaller class sizes that are required to
19:31:23 comply with and not -- we are not adding the classrooms
19:31:25 to add additional students.
19:31:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Miss Grimes, what is the height of
19:31:28 the --
19:31:29 >> The structure?
19:31:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The existing building compared to the
19:31:33 new building.
19:31:34 >> The existing.
19:31:38 It is a one-story building and it is -- I don't know the
19:31:38 exact --
19:31:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Looks a little taller.
19:31:41 >> Probably around 20 feet.
19:31:45 The proposed addition is the 31-foot building.
19:31:49 And the RS-100 zoning district, the height limitation as
19:31:50 you know is 35 feet.
19:31:53 So we are under the height limitation for the RS-100
19:31:55 zoning district.
19:31:58 The elevations are included as part of the package.
19:32:02 I won't go into detail regarding the elevations, but I
19:32:05 want to go through some pictures we have taken of the
19:32:07 site and here is that building, Mr. Dingfelder.
19:32:11 This -- is a picture of the location of the Eastern end
19:32:14 of the proposed addition.
19:32:18 This right here -- and I should have had a better angle I
19:32:22 think -- Abbey had a better angle.
19:32:24 The western end of the proposed addition.
19:32:27 This is a closer shot of the ROTC building, the former
19:32:30 auto body shop to be demolished.
19:32:35 And here -- I took a shot because I wanted you to see the
19:32:37 The 46-foot setback.
19:32:43 Here is -- here are the residential properties to the
19:32:46 South and this building and the proposed building
19:32:48 addition both of them are approximately 46 feet from the
19:32:55 rear property lines on Palmyra that abut the site.
19:32:58 Here is a better shot of the existing drainage ditch in
19:33:02 back of the property that back up to the school site.
19:33:06 So you have the drainage ditch, the fence, and in this
19:33:10 other shot you can see where -- that is the inside of the
19:33:15 fence, and then you have some additional area here before
19:33:22 you -- before you reach the 45-foot -- 46-foot setback.
19:33:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The ditch looks a lot cleaner than
19:33:28 when I used to play in it when I was a kid.
19:33:31 >> This is a shot of a similar but smaller setback that
19:33:37 exists between the properties along Palmyra and South
19:33:40 Approximately 39 feet so the proposed addition will be
19:33:44 set back an additional 7 feet.
19:33:47 But I wanted to provide you a shot to show the extensive
19:33:51 buffer area that will exist on the other side of Sterling
19:33:54 when the addition -- if the addition is built in is a
19:33:57 shot of the existing tree canopy adjacent to the proposed
19:34:05 This is a closer shot of the existing tree canopy
19:34:09 adjacent to the Catalanos.
19:34:13 Mr. Dingfelder, you are correct, there are two floors
19:34:14 will abut in addition.
19:34:20 If I can go back to the site plan, you can see that the
19:34:23 addition ends almost in line with the second property
19:34:31 There is the Catalanos at the corner of Sterling and one
19:34:36 lot in are the -- that will back up to the additions.
19:34:39 So basically two property owners that will be directly
19:34:40 adjacent to the addition.
19:34:44 And because of that, we took some shots from a -- from an
19:34:48 elevated stand so that you would have a better idea of
19:34:56 the second-story view from the proposed addition into the
19:35:00 Catalano's yard.
19:35:06 The tree can adjacent to the Catalano you can not see
19:35:07 into the yard.
19:35:13 The tree canopy adjacent to the Osterman.
19:35:18 But here also is the second-story view of the tree canopy
19:35:23 adjacent and you can't even see into either back yard.
19:35:29 In designing this proposed addition, we attempted to
19:35:31 minimize the impact it would have on the adjacent
19:35:35 properties as much as possible, and as you know, the
19:35:38 setback requirement of 45 feet is much greater than what
19:35:40 the city code requires.
19:35:44 Additionally the height of 31 feet is lower than the
19:35:46 maximum allowed in this zoning district.
19:35:50 But in addition to that, several of us met with the
19:35:55 Catalanos and spoke to many neighbors who attended the
19:35:59 community meeting and we determined it was in everyone's
19:36:00 best interest to -- to provide some additional
19:36:05 And we have provided to the city, and it is in your
19:36:07 package of materials, what we are referring to as the
19:36:11 "change sheet" or "revision sheet" which identifies
19:36:15 several of the other mitigation techniques we intend to
19:36:18 The first one that I wanted to touch on was the landscape
19:36:22 buffer adjacent to the property along West Palm Beached.
19:36:27 What we are proposing to do -- you can see that it is
19:36:31 already extensively screen by the extensive tree canopy
19:36:34 and what we are proposing to do is add on to that
19:36:37 landscape buffer, the existing landscape buffer.
19:36:39 What we are proposing to do -- and here is the ditch that
19:36:47 you saw 30 feet from the property line.
19:36:51 We are proposing to install 11 live oaks, not laurel oaks
19:36:56 but live oaks, planted 15 feet on center.
19:37:02 And those live oaks will be approximately 14 feet at the
19:37:03 time of planting.
19:37:09 14 feet high.
19:37:11 We think between the existing tree canopy that exists
19:37:15 right in here and the proposed landscape screening and
19:37:18 buffer that you will virtually be unable -- completely
19:37:21 unable -- it will be impossible to see into the backyards
19:37:24 of -- of the two property owners that abut the proposed
19:37:32 On the side of the chain-link fence we are going to
19:37:37 install a viburnum hedge that will be maintained at 6
19:37:42 We are trying to work in and around a 24-inch water main
19:37:46 and 20-foot easement that exists within this same area in
19:37:51 is another rendering of that enhanced landscape buffer
19:37:54 and what you can see is basically the height of those
19:37:58 trees at the time of planting relative to the proposed
19:38:03 And this is a view as if there was no existing landscape
19:38:06 or tree canopy there, and as you know there is one and
19:38:09 this will be in addition to what is existing.
19:38:13 And this is the view from adjacent to the property line
19:38:15 of the trees relative to -- you can see it -- relative to
19:38:22 the height of the structure.
19:38:24 In addition to the landscape buffer that also exceeds the
19:38:28 city code, we have also agreed in the change sheet to
19:38:40 permanently close the gates at Sterling and Palmyra.
19:38:42 That is what neighbors have wanted and we will be using
19:38:46 it for emergency access only as identified on the change
19:38:52 Additionally we have agreed at the residents' request,
19:38:58 the Catalano's request that at the back of the ROTC
19:39:00 building for parking --
19:39:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you have a copy of the change
19:39:08 >> It is in your notebook at tab 11.
19:39:10 >> Thank you.
19:39:13 The Catalanos have requested that the teacher parking
19:39:19 area in the rear identified on here as "asphalt
19:39:24 They requested that we also add a note to the site plan
19:39:27 that no parking will be further.
19:39:29 There were teacher parking that occurred there and
19:39:34 teachers going in and out of the gate left it open and
19:39:35 caused issue.
19:39:39 We agreed to permanently close the gate so there will be
19:39:43 nobody coming in and out of there except on an emergency
19:39:45 The other thing we have agreed to do and that is
19:39:49 incorporated into the sheet is to restrict construction
19:39:52 Some of the people that came to the community meeting
19:39:55 were concerned about the construction traffic.
19:39:59 This past summer there was a construction project done
19:40:05 where they added a patio area outside the cafeteria and
19:40:12 apparently there was impact to the neighbors on Palmyra
19:40:17 with the construction traffic.
19:40:21 Remove the materials from the ROTC building and what will
19:40:22 happen is we will move the fence.
19:40:26 Install a temporary fence at the property line and
19:40:30 completely closed you have from any construction traffic.
19:40:33 Nothing going in and out of there during construction.
19:40:35 We think with all of these additional mitigation
19:40:39 techniques that the individuals that own property an
19:40:44 Palmyra will have less impact than they do right now and
19:40:47 won't have any traffic going in and out of the gate and
19:40:49 have enhanced landscaping noon and parking in that area
19:40:52 back there.
19:40:54 Next I would like to address code compliance.
19:40:56 When you evaluate that you have to determine whether or
19:40:58 not it complies with the code.
19:41:00 And you heard from your staff, they walked you through
19:41:04 the criteria for schools under 27-272.
19:41:07 And they have found that it meets each and every one of
19:41:08 those criteria.
19:41:12 And I want to point out, Mr. Dingfelder, because I think
19:41:15 you had a question about waivers, that we are not
19:41:17 requesting any waivers with this -- with this
19:41:21 We meet all the criteria in 27-272, and in addition,
19:41:24 there are some criteria, some general standards in
19:41:28 And at this point, I would like to have Lorraine
19:41:34 Duffy-Suarez come up and testify as to our application's
19:41:36 compliance with the general standards you have for
19:41:36 special uses.
19:41:39 As some of you may know Lorraine has her Master's Degree
19:41:40 in planning.
19:41:42 She also is an AICP.
19:41:46 And she has been qualified for an expert in court
19:41:50 So I would like for her to come forward and testify
19:41:53 regarding the general standards and testify as an expert
19:41:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, just in regard to that,
19:42:01 The reason I had inquired with our staff about the waiver
19:42:05 issue is I believe your earlier petition spoke to a
19:42:08 waiver to allow for an additional 93 students and 18
19:42:11 parking spaces as a waiver.
19:42:15 And I was looking at an old -- an older petition.
19:42:17 I was pleased to see that your newer petition that we are
19:42:20 dealing with tonight right now does not include those
19:42:25 But that was my -- my confusion.
19:42:26 But thank you.
19:42:28 >> Okay.
19:42:30 >> Good evening, Councilmembers.
19:42:32 Lorraine Duffy-Suarez.
19:42:35 The school district's general manager for Growth
19:42:36 Management and planning.
19:42:38 I was sworn in.
19:42:40 As Gina mentioned I am going to testify to you about the
19:42:43 general standards contained in Chapter 27-269 and their
19:42:47 applicability to this particular petition.
19:42:50 Now the first standard in that show the use will ensure
19:42:54 the public health, safety and general welfare if located
19:42:57 where proposed and operated and developed according to
19:42:58 the plan submitted.
19:43:00 With regard to that I think what you have heard is the
19:43:04 plan is to remove 10 portable classrooms and replace them
19:43:09 with 16 permanent -- permanent building with 16
19:43:15 From a security standpoint, storms, portable classrooms
19:43:19 while safe, they do require evacuation during certain
19:43:20 storm events.
19:43:23 A permanent building is more desirable and the district
19:43:26 has been doing everything in our power to remove portable
19:43:29 classrooms and have more secure facilities for our
19:43:32 students with respects to public health and safety.
19:43:35 General welfare.
19:43:38 As you know, class size reduction amendment was passed by
19:43:39 the community.
19:43:43 And we are trying to attempt to comply with that by
19:43:45 building the classroom space that is needed.
19:43:50 We would be permitted to use portable classrooms to meet
19:43:59 that -- may I finish or -- two seconds, three minutes,
19:44:00 two minutes maybe, maybe.
19:44:01 Two minutes.
19:44:01 Two minutes.
19:44:04 You know my timing.
19:44:06 I speak fast.
19:44:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I will give you a minute.
19:44:09 >> I will do it in a minute, sir.
19:44:12 That the uses -- special use in the district as proposed
19:44:16 locates complies with required regulations and standards.
19:44:17 Yes, we do.
19:44:19 We comply with all regulations and all standards.
19:44:21 We are not asking for any waivers.
19:44:24 The school -- the requested use is compatible.
19:44:28 Schools as Gina mentioned are the cornerstone of our
19:44:32 The interlocal agreement we have signed with you says as
19:44:34 much as well as your comprehensive plan.
19:44:37 Encourages the placement of schools in neighborhoods.
19:44:42 Plant High School was there prior to the neighborhood in
19:44:46 Number four talks about the uses in conforming with the
19:44:47 comprehensive plan.
19:44:50 Section 9 of the interlocal agreement specifies that,
19:44:53 that any existing use it in conformity with your
19:44:56 comprehensive plan and this number 5 says the use shall
19:44:59 not establish a precedent or encourage more intensive
19:45:01 incompatibility uses.
19:45:03 That is not the case.
19:45:06 The public high school has been there for 90 years.
19:45:09 It does not encourage more intense development.
19:45:11 It has been an asset to the community and has supported
19:45:17 the residential community for all these many years.
19:45:19 I think we are in full compliance with Chapter 27-269.
19:45:26 I can answer any questions.
19:45:27 >> Mr. Chairman, I know we are close to our time limit
19:45:30 for 15 minutes for our initial presentation and I know a
19:45:33 lot of people in opposition, would it be acceptable if I
19:45:36 save the rest of my testimony for some of the rebuttal
19:45:39 I anticipate with the number of people here that I am
19:45:41 going to need more than five minutes --
19:45:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Your time is up.
19:45:44 You concluded.
19:45:49 You have five-minute rebuttal.
19:45:52 >> Right Scots Scott we will take public testimony and
19:45:54 five minutes to rebut after that.
19:45:57 >> Hopefully I am wrong about this, but I anticipate with
19:45:59 the number of people here who may speak in Op
19:46:01 constitution that it will take longer than five minutes
19:46:03 for me to be able to rebut for all of the points that
19:46:05 they make.
19:46:06 So if that's okay --
19:46:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: When we come to that, we will take that
19:46:10 If that's fair enough.
19:46:12 >> Let me close up just dealing with the parking issue
19:46:13 because it is important.
19:46:15 I think you will hear a lot of comments about that.
19:46:20 And this is what you have parking requirements in your
19:46:21 city code.
19:46:25 There are parking requirements in the SREF, the state
19:46:27 requirement for educational facilities.
19:46:30 The building code.
19:46:35 Pursuant to the state law that was mentioned earlier,
19:46:39 what it provides is standards and conditions may not be
19:46:41 imposed which conflict with those established in this
19:46:43 chapter or the Florida building code.
19:46:49 So we are governed strictly by the SREF parking
19:46:53 The SREF parking requirements for the site require 318
19:46:55 parking spaces.
19:46:58 On-site we have 473 parking spaces.
19:47:01 So under the SREF, we have an excess of 155 parking
19:47:05 Even though we are not subject to the City of Tampa
19:47:09 parking standards, we went ahead did the calculation
19:47:13 under the city standards and the city standards would
19:47:16 require approximately 456 spaces.
19:47:19 Even under the city standards that are not applicable to
19:47:23 the school board by statute, we would still have an
19:47:27 excess of 17 parking spaces.
19:47:29 I know that some of residents may bring up parking
19:47:33 I can only tell that you parking enforcement occurs by
19:47:36 the administration on -- on an everyday basis.
19:47:37 They do the best they can.
19:47:40 You are never going to get 100% compliance.
19:47:43 Most of the streets in the area have the no parking signs
19:47:46 that are -- are erected either by the city or the
19:47:49 5-minute signs that are erected by individual property
19:47:52 owners but one thing I want to mention is not all
19:47:55 students necessarily want to park on-site.
19:47:59 Not an issue whether or not there is sufficient parking
19:48:00 spaces on-site.
19:48:03 Some students who exercise freedom of choice decide to
19:48:06 park on the street where they are permitted to park, and
19:48:07 they are allowed to do so.
19:48:10 We can't mandate that they park on the school site.
19:48:12 We have a situation where there may be individuals who do
19:48:17 not want to park on the school site, and Arizona this
19:48:19 council told me in another case I had in front of you
19:48:21 dealing with a vacating that the streets are held in
19:48:24 trust for the public, and if the streets are not intended
19:48:27 for the exclusive use of the individuals that reside on
19:48:28 those streets.
19:48:31 You told me that when you denied a vacating petition
19:48:33 where I had a similar situation where you had adjacent
19:48:37 intensive use that was parking all up and down the
19:48:40 residential streets and the residents wanted to vacate
19:48:42 the streets and reserve them for their own exclusive use,
19:48:45 and you were -- I was told by you that that was not
19:48:47 appropriate because they are held in trust for the
19:48:53 And there are -- we are not going to deny there are
19:48:54 impacts as a result of this school.
19:48:57 Those impacts are very short term in the morning, very
19:48:59 early and in the afternoon.
19:49:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Miss Grimes, you need to wrap -- bring
19:49:02 to close.
19:49:04 Your time is over.
19:49:04 >> Okay.
19:49:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And council has some questions.
19:49:08 >> I think what you are going to see there is a trade-off
19:49:11 between the benefit and convenience of the school in the
19:49:14 short term temporary impacts that occur every day during
19:49:18 drop off and when school is over.
19:49:21 But that is something that I think most residents would
19:49:24 tell you is worth the inconvenience because of the
19:49:27 benefits that Plant High School provides not just to
19:49:29 their neighborhood but to their property value.
19:49:32 And so with that I will wait and provide the rest of my
19:49:34 testimony on rebuttal.
19:49:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
19:49:39 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a question for miss Duffy as far
19:49:42 as -- miss Grimes, actually now I have a question for you
19:49:46 regarding the parking since you know our code so well.
19:49:51 What -- are those parking requirements based on how many
19:49:54 -- the population of the school?
19:49:54 >> Yes.
19:49:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
19:50:00 So then my question -- and I -- I have a graduate of
19:50:04 plant and potential student will probably go there.
19:50:08 And so I -- I know all about -- although we can't afford
19:50:11 to buy our kids a car, so we have to be in the parking
19:50:15 line all the time.
19:50:19 What -- what -- are these figures correct?
19:50:24 There is a letter we got I think just today from the
19:50:30 Palma Ceia neighborhood association that said in 2005,
19:50:38 there was 1984 students at plant and now 2398, so 400 new
19:50:48 >> 2398 is the permanent capacity that will exist after
19:50:48 the addition.
19:50:53 Currently as to the 40th day of this year there were 2307
19:50:55 students attending Plant.
19:50:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Still around --
19:50:59 >> Enough your package of materials the historical
19:51:02 attendance figures for Plant High School.
19:51:06 And the 2300 -- the approximately 2300 stud who attend
19:51:09 Plant right now is not the highest attendance figures
19:51:11 that have ever occurred at Plant High School.
19:51:16 Back in the early '70s before Jefferson open they had
19:51:17 approximately 2600 students that attended.
19:51:21 >>MARY MULHERN: That was addressed by opening schools.
19:51:22 >> Correct.
19:51:25 This really --
19:51:27 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm anticipating what we are going to
19:51:32 hear from the neighborhood, but, I mean there are isn't
19:51:38 really our prerogative at all, but I think that is where
19:51:40 part of the problem stems from.
19:51:43 How -- how do you account for so many more students
19:51:48 And this is a question for you, miss Duffy-Suarez.
19:51:53 Because that's what creates the need for more parking
19:51:56 spaces and that is what is creating the opposition.
19:51:59 So I am asking someone from the schools to answer this
19:52:05 I don't know if -- what accounts for the fact that we
19:52:13 have got 400 more students in the last four years?
19:52:15 >> You mean why are there that many more.
19:52:17 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, why.
19:52:20 South Tampa is pretty much built out, and that district
19:52:24 it seems odd there are so many students.
19:52:25 >> I am rob Nelson.
19:52:27 The principal of Plant High School.
19:52:28 Thank you for having us here tonight.
19:52:31 The increase in students at Plant High School is due to
19:52:32 the private school numbers.
19:52:34 We have a large number of private schools in the area.
19:52:38 Probably when the school was around 1900 to 2,000,
19:52:41 probably averaged about 80 private school students a
19:52:44 The two previous years have gotten approximately 100 to
19:52:47 150 private school students.
19:52:50 I got 100 private school students last year.
19:52:53 Part of it I feel my staff does a great job in educating
19:52:54 our kids.
19:52:56 Our kids go to the top Universities in the nation and
19:52:58 part of it is the economy.
19:52:59 Students -- the parents --
19:53:02 >>MARY MULHERN: You are saying 200 of those 400 are
19:53:04 coming from private schools.
19:53:07 >> I have probably gotten approximately --
19:53:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Do they live within the district, that
19:53:11 is the other question.
19:53:13 >> Absolutely, I continue --
19:53:17 >> The process of enrollment in Plant High School follow
19:53:21 all policies and the ones that are questioning are ones
19:53:24 that we don't feel are being truthful that my
19:53:27 administration -- I go anywhere from checking addresses.
19:53:29 I sent school security.
19:53:32 I checked addresses on multiple occasions just to make
19:53:34 sure obviously that students are living within the
19:53:39 Am I naive to think that some families are not being
19:53:42 truthful about their students and address going to Plant
19:53:42 High School?
19:53:45 Absolutely not, but I continue to enforce that on a
19:53:50 constant basis and welcome any information on any student
19:53:52 not being truthful in a matter.
19:53:53 >>MARY MULHERN: It is tough.
19:53:57 I know you are in a tough position and hard to do that
19:53:58 investigation and enforcement.
19:54:01 I know with my experience with Plant, I knew a lot of
19:54:04 students who did not live in the district and did go to
19:54:07 the school, and I would never turn them in, and neither
19:54:09 would my daughter would have wanted to do that.
19:54:10 So that is the problem.
19:54:16 >> Anonymous or not, I look into the anonymous ones.
19:54:19 >>MARY MULHERN: A school district responsibility to
19:54:21 build up the other schools so they have the kind of
19:54:24 reputation that Plant has so if we have --
19:54:27 -- [sounding gavel]
19:54:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mrs. Refrain -- excuse me for a second.
19:54:35 If you refrain the applause, I would appreciate that very
19:54:37 >>MARY MULHERN: So many students who are either moving
19:54:41 into the district or going there, you know, having an
19:54:43 address of a relative.
19:54:44 I know that is pretty common.
19:54:45 And this isn't for you.
19:54:48 You are obviously doing a great job at Plant.
19:54:48 >> Yes, ma'am.
19:54:50 >>MARY MULHERN: But I think these are real concerns, and
19:54:53 I am sorry, I don't think City Council can be much help
19:54:55 with any of this, but they are real concerns.
19:54:58 And I would like to see the school -- the school district
19:54:59 do more about it.
19:55:05 But I also think the parking problem in Tampa.
19:55:08 This is interesting to me too, Miss Grimes.
19:55:11 Explain this to me because I thought -- and I just heard
19:55:15 this recently that anyone can request one of those no
19:55:18 parking signs.
19:55:22 So really literally you can prevent anyone from parking
19:55:25 in front of your house.
19:55:27 >> That is exactly what has happened in the neighborhood
19:55:30 I do have a parking diagram I was going to share on
19:55:34 I can share with you right now, but I can show you
19:55:37 exactly all -- where all the streets are located adjacent
19:55:41 to the school where there are already no parking.
19:55:43 And some of them -- most of the streets -- all the
19:55:48 streets identified in -- in pink have no parking or
19:55:50 five-minute parking.
19:55:53 So most of the streets in and around Plant.
19:55:58 The ones identified with green you can park on -- park
19:56:02 usually on one side the street, but even that is spotty
19:56:04 because even though there are no signs that say no
19:56:08 parking between 8 and 5, there may be an individual home
19:56:11 with a 5-minute parking sign so you can't park in front
19:56:11 of that house.
19:56:15 And I have pictures -- I know Mr. Scott does not want me
19:56:18 to go past my time here, but I have pictures showing the
19:56:22 signs and the streets where the parking occurs, and I --
19:56:27 I can assure you that it is not as extensive as -- as you
19:56:30 might hear that it is.
19:56:31 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
19:56:33 >> I also live in the neighborhood.
19:56:36 I drive these streets every single day.
19:56:38 I even recognize some of the cars that park on the
19:56:39 streets on a regular basis.
19:56:43 And I know where the cars park, and I know where they
19:56:43 don't park.
19:56:46 As I said earlier, sometimes there are problems with
19:56:49 students that don't -- that park where they shouldn't be
19:56:52 parked, but for the most part, most of the students
19:56:56 comply with the no parking signs.
19:56:56 >>MARY MULHERN: Thanks.
19:57:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just -- in regards to your
19:57:03 question, and I think it has been answered.
19:57:06 Part of the problem is given the economy, a lot of the
19:57:09 private schools have lost a lot of students going back to
19:57:13 the public schools that will account for the
19:57:16 Plant is not the only High School that have overcrowding.
19:57:19 A lot more that has overcrowding.
19:57:20 An ongoing issue.
19:57:24 We are talking -- what is Hillsborough, the 12th largest
19:57:25 school district in the nation?
19:57:27 The 8th?
19:57:28 The 8th now.
19:57:30 You are talking about the largest, the 8th largest school
19:57:32 district in the nation.
19:57:36 So anyway, what we need to do -- you had a question
19:57:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
19:57:42 I don't know Miss Grimes or perhaps our staff.
19:57:47 On your note, it speaks to these SREF -- I don't know
19:57:49 what that stands for -- state --
19:57:53 >> State requirements for educational facilities.
19:57:55 A chapter of the Florida building code and in your
19:57:56 package of materials.
19:57:57 >> The standard parking requirement.
19:58:00 And I just want to make this real clear because this is a
19:58:01 state requirement.
19:58:08 It is a weird or strange requirement or -- I hate to even
19:58:13 call it a requirement but under number 5, it says the
19:58:20 state requirement one space per every 10th, 11th and 12th
19:58:22 >> Right.
19:58:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And that is going to assume that your
19:58:31 -- the 9th and 10th graders get dropped off and every one
19:58:36 out of every 11th and 12th grader is parking and driving
19:58:40 I am not saying this is Plant's fault, I am saying --
19:58:43 especially in the Plant environment, I would say this is
19:58:46 an unrealistic requirement.
19:58:49 >> What is the basis of that?
19:58:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am sorry?
19:58:54 >> What is the basis for that?
19:58:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Personal observation just like you
19:59:00 because -- I think we all know for a fact that a lot more
19:59:05 than one out of every ten 11th graders and 12th graders
19:59:07 >> I don't --
19:59:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This is anecdotal and you and I could
19:59:14 argue about it all night, Miss Grimes, which we won't.
19:59:17 But I want to point that out because this is not Plant's
19:59:20 fault this is the, quote, requirement.
19:59:22 They call it a requirement.
19:59:24 >> It is a requirement.
19:59:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I know.
19:59:29 >> In addition to the student parking, you -- I don't
19:59:31 know if you saw this, there is also a requirement for one
19:59:33 space for every staff member.
19:59:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I saw that.
19:59:36 >> Under SREF.
19:59:39 And in addition to that, you have one space, a visitor
19:59:42 space, one for every 100 students.
19:59:45 So that's where we came up with the requirement of 318
19:59:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a feeling if I asked Mr.
19:59:51 Nelson to come up -- back up again and give a candid
19:59:55 appraisal of how many -- what percentage of his 11th and
19:59:58 12th graders drive, I think it will be more than 10%.
20:00:02 I won't do that tonight because frankly it is irrelevant.
20:00:05 The state standard is what the state standard is.
20:00:06 >> You are right.
20:00:06 You are right.
20:00:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We will take public comment.
20:00:12 Let me just say to the public that we are limited.
20:00:15 Council is limited.
20:00:20 The attorney Miss Cole tried to advise us earlier what we
20:00:22 can and what we can not do.
20:00:27 And it is not -- basically -- accord to the Florida
20:00:30 statute, we can only impose reasonable conditions based
20:00:33 on the expansion as we have been told.
20:00:38 And, of course, I was told something else too, but -- I
20:00:41 will keep the record pure.
20:00:47 So I want to say to the public as you come forth, you
20:00:51 want to keep your comments focused on -- on what's being
20:00:54 presented here today.
20:00:57 To wander off into other areas that we don't have any
20:01:00 jurisdiction does not help you or us tonight.
20:01:02 I am just being very candid.
20:01:03 We are very limited.
20:01:04 We are very limited.
20:01:06 In fact I raised a question to our attorney.
20:01:09 I don't even know why we are hearing this other than the
20:01:14 fact that the legislature says that -- that we got to do
20:01:15 We got to hear it.
20:01:20 But you can't do much under the limited conditions.
20:01:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, just for procedurally,
20:01:26 there seems to be a lot of folks that did want to speak
20:01:30 We usually have three minutes which we will -- will take
20:01:33 us into 3:00 in the morning which I don't think that
20:01:33 anybody wants.
20:01:37 Normally I think sometimes we suggest one minute per
20:01:40 person and see how that goes; however, with that -- with
20:01:43 the -- I would suggest that with the exception of Mr.
20:01:46 Catalano and his family as well as the other family that
20:01:49 directly abut the property.
20:01:53 I think they probably deserve the full three minutes.
20:01:56 Because they are in an unusual situation.
20:02:00 And if Miss Grimes didn't have any objection to that, I
20:02:02 think that might be an appropriate procedure.
20:02:05 >> I might expand that and say anyone who is within the
20:02:06 noticed area.
20:02:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Noticed area is 100 families because
20:02:12 they noticed all the way around the school.
20:02:14 >> Well, I would -- I would not --
20:02:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I looked at the list.
20:02:18 >> I would not want to abridge anybody's right to be
20:02:24 heard, but I would suggest rather than be repetitive to
20:02:26 to focus and maybe not necessarily use the full three
20:02:31 minutes, but to -- not knowing what individuals's
20:02:37 standings is and I wouldn't want to create a problem
20:02:39 procedurally in terms of due process.
20:02:42 I just want to make sure for the record that we don't
20:02:44 impinge upon somebody's right by giving somebody three
20:02:46 minutes and somebody one minute not knowing what their
20:02:49 individual situations are.
20:02:53 I just raise that.
20:02:55 >> My suggestion, Mr. Chairman, would be to say that --
20:03:02 that in order to expedite things, people are not people
20:03:05 have no need to use their full three minute even after
20:03:07 this machine they get 3 minutes and 30 seconds as you
20:03:10 It gives you an extra 30 seconds on top of that that adds
20:03:12 even more time.
20:03:14 And the other thing is that they cut to the chase and
20:03:19 talk about only those issues that are relevant and if
20:03:22 they talk about things that are not, Mr. Chairman, you
20:03:23 can expedite.
20:03:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My suggestion would be we give everybody
20:03:27 two minutes which will end up being two and a half
20:03:32 minutes really.
20:03:34 Is that okay with council?
20:03:37 Those who want to address council may come forward.
20:03:42 Those who are for, support, come to my left, your right.
20:03:45 Those in opposition Dom my right and your left.
20:03:49 If you are in opposition, you may line up on the wall on
20:03:50 my right.
20:03:55 If you were in opposition.
20:04:04 If you are in opposition.
20:04:08 If you are in favor and support you are on my left on the
20:04:11 If you are in support and you are going to speak, you
20:04:17 will line up now to my left.
20:04:20 You have two minutes.
20:04:33 >> Good evening, Nathan Powell, President of the Palma
20:04:35 ceia neighborhood association.
20:04:39 During the past month there were three meetings with the
20:04:41 proposed expansion of Plant High School.
20:04:44 Each of these meetings were attended by numerous families
20:04:46 throughout the neighborhood who were routinely affected
20:04:50 by the overcrowding situation, ie parked cars and high
20:04:51 volume of traffic.
20:04:53 At the end of these meetings, we took a vote on whether
20:04:57 or not the neighborhood association is for or against the
20:05:00 variance request and by unanimous vote, the neighborhood
20:05:02 is opposed to is this variance request.
20:05:05 Over the past decade, Plant has continued to expand its
20:05:07 student population.
20:05:10 The school and the school board is well aware -- well
20:05:14 aware of the policy and neighborhood association years of
20:05:17 frustration that has not remedied the problems nor
20:05:20 proposed a remedy in this variance request.
20:05:22 We have several of our neighbors here tonight who will
20:05:25 give their individual points of view for your
20:05:29 consideration and conclusion of the Palma ceia
20:05:32 neighborhood association respectfully requests that this
20:05:34 petition be denied.
20:05:38 Thank you.
20:05:40 >> Good evening.
20:05:44 I am a senior at Plant High School and I have been sworn
20:05:48 My job is to give a student's view on the problem with
20:05:49 the portables.
20:05:52 I don't know if any of you saw the weather today.
20:05:52 It was raining.
20:05:54 I got to class and I was wet.
20:05:58 It was definitely an inconvenience.
20:06:02 In addition to that, -- I have two APs in the portable, a
20:06:06 full AP load right now, and I get to class in 4th period
20:06:10 late every day because such a far walk compared to my
20:06:11 other classes.
20:06:15 And any time there is a tornado watch, we have to go to
20:06:17 the cafeteria where nothing gets done.
20:06:20 I can't control my class load then.
20:06:23 I feel like I lag behind and I know that a lot of other
20:06:25 students share my point of view, and so I think that
20:06:31 adding an addition that will be closer and covered would
20:06:34 convenience all the students at Plant.
20:06:37 It will not add any students but just convenience us.
20:06:41 Thank you.
20:06:42 >> -- Catalano.
20:06:48 3701 West Palmyra and I have been sworn.
20:06:50 I looked at your agenda and you do a lot of work and I
20:06:52 appreciate you being here.
20:06:54 I don't know how much people know what you do.
20:06:57 I also appreciate the school board represented here.
20:06:59 They got $100 million grant.
20:07:02 If I had $100 million, I wouldn't be here.
20:07:09 Can I get the overhead.
20:07:11 We have heard our name mentioned a few time.
20:07:13 Let me assure you we don't have that kind of clout.
20:07:15 They are here for a reason.
20:07:17 They are here because it is a special use.
20:07:20 And I appreciate the process of the special use as
20:07:22 applied to schools because schools do impact
20:07:25 neighborhoods in positive and negative ways.
20:07:27 We are just here to talk about a couple of negative ways.
20:07:29 The yellow box is our house.
20:07:31 The pink is the addition.
20:07:35 The school board representatives worked with us in
20:07:38 amazing ways to do these mitigation factors.
20:07:43 It is not that the school board is doing this out of the
20:07:46 goodness of their heart, it is just the way you work with
20:07:49 neighbors -- just like I would do a neighbor.
20:07:53 And I do appreciate it, but I am a little bothered when I
20:07:55 see someone who is Heralded as a planner and master of
20:07:59 science and planning and what have you saying things as
20:08:04 sophomoric as the school was there first.
20:08:07 Until you get the special use that you -- that is the
20:08:09 kind of fire wall we would get.
20:08:10 The school was not here first.
20:08:12 Certainly not in its configuration.
20:08:15 As the school has expanded, more of the burden is put on
20:08:17 neighborhood and that's what we are here to talk about.
20:08:20 The school has gone out of their way to put in a buffer
20:08:22 They have gone out of their way to close a gate that
20:08:26 probably shouldn't have been used on the Special Use 2
20:08:30 criteria, is an arterial and collector road nearby.
20:08:33 They answered yes, Dale Mabry.
20:08:36 Therefore Sterling should not be used and they did close
20:08:38 They said if needed for emergency use and they will mark
20:08:40 it emergency use only.
20:08:42 That is on the record and we appreciate that very much,
20:08:45 but you are not limited to what you can do on a special
20:08:47 You can deny it.
20:08:49 And I think that should be -- that should be made known.
20:08:52 You are limited on what you can do as far as criteria,
20:08:54 but you can deny this special use, and that's why they
20:08:56 are accommodating us.
20:09:00 We have asked for one tiny thing, and is obscured glass
20:09:03 in the bottom row of the second-floor window.
20:09:05 Those trees they are showing you are not our trees.
20:09:07 They are on the school's property now.
20:09:09 Used to be right-of-way but it is on the school's
20:09:15 It is scraggly and disgusting and on a decline.
20:09:17 We can't count on them for a buffer.
20:09:20 We are asking for obscured glass in the bottom row of the
20:09:23 second floor only.
20:09:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Sir.
20:09:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to say I love it when
20:09:32 someone comes with a very specific solution to a problem.
20:09:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, thank you.
20:09:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Could stop some of the daydreaming
20:09:43 >> Hi, my name is Vicky Reed, and I back up to the old
20:09:46 wing that was built many years ago.
20:09:52 And I -- I wanted to stand in the middle because I am for
20:09:57 the traffic being resolved and I really like what the
20:10:01 school board says they are going to do with that wing
20:10:03 because they didn't show you there is going to be any of
20:10:06 these off the side of the school that is going to flood
20:10:08 those people's yards.
20:10:12 If it rains hard, this is -- there are about eight of
20:10:13 these on the side the school.
20:10:15 It floods our back yard.
20:10:18 So the school board when they put the wing that is behind
20:10:21 us, it is like we are in a fish bowl.
20:10:22 It is all windows.
20:10:25 About eight of these.
20:10:29 And it is just -- I can't -- I came first to support my
20:10:32 neighbors because I said I wouldn't want anybody to have
20:10:34 to put up with what we have got.
20:10:43 And there is about four of us that have this and then I
20:10:44 had to step to the other side because I think the school
20:10:48 board will do a very nice job for these people, but it is
20:10:49 a little late for us.
20:10:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What is your address, ma'am?
20:10:58 >> 3613 we are dead in the middle of the new wing -- I
20:10:59 mean the old wing.
20:11:01 I want to stay on both sides.
20:11:02 I want something done with the traffic.
20:11:08 I hope this doesn't create more traffic, but I think --
20:11:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If we can stop with the cell phones if
20:11:12 you don't mind please.
20:11:14 Put them on vibrate or turn them off.
20:11:16 Thank you.
20:11:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman.
20:11:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
20:11:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: May I ask -- are you currently
20:11:23 experiencing flooding on your property?
20:11:25 >> The rain drains they put on the side of the schools,
20:11:29 it rains really hard for a few days, the water runs out
20:11:33 of the alleyway into our yard and causes what we call a
20:11:39 swimming pool effect.
20:11:42 I have been over to the school and asked them if they
20:11:45 could do something about it and they said they would look
20:11:47 into it but it is still the same way.
20:11:50 And with the number of windows on the side of the school.
20:11:52 Like I said, you are a prisoner of your yard.
20:11:55 You can't go out in your yard when school is going on
20:11:56 because there are so many windows.
20:12:00 And the only buffers we have are -- I kept my shrubs.
20:12:08 Everybody else has theirs down.
20:12:11 And I think there needs to be more of that so we are not
20:12:13 as exposed as we are.
20:12:15 I want to stand in the middle because I want to support
20:12:17 them, but I think we are getting punished too.
20:12:22 So that's why we were afraid with what Plant was going to
20:12:24 That is what I have to say.
20:12:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
20:12:35 >> I am gay Anne Catalano and I live.
20:12:38 Just for the record I have been sworn in and I would like
20:12:40 to clarify something that has been stated.
20:12:43 I feel like these supreme done their job very well but
20:12:46 they fail to mention in the muni code the reason they
20:12:52 have to have a Special Use Permit when it encroaches on a
20:12:55 You have the ability to deny this.
20:12:57 And I am not sure why they didn't tell you that.
20:13:01 Also when Gina showed you the picture of the tree line, I
20:13:05 know you noticed our swimming pool, so evidently, it is
20:13:07 not as thick as they would like to you think.
20:13:09 And all we are asking for -- because we know you are
20:13:11 going to approve it without a doubt because for some
20:13:17 reason you can't go outside that box.
20:13:22 But is to have them install a secure glass and have them
20:13:24 install a better barrier.
20:13:26 A question on that 14-foot oak.
20:13:29 Once it is planted in the ground or when it is in the
20:13:38 container are they 14 feet sitting above ground.
20:13:41 Henry Hick's issue.
20:13:42 The neighbor with the lights.
20:13:45 Will we have light in our bedroom windows?
20:13:47 Are we going to have those issues?
20:13:51 You said Miss Saul-Sena that you are here to protect the
20:13:54 That is just one and there are several of us.
20:13:57 We wish you would take it in consideration to either have
20:14:01 a continuance on this or at least insist they put secure
20:14:03 windows in, work on the lighting and work with the
20:14:08 neighbors to create a better situation for both parties.
20:14:08 Thank you.
20:14:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Maybe when the school representative
20:14:13 comes she can address some of those on rebuttal.
20:14:16 Miss Grimes will address some of those on rebuttal.
20:14:16 >> Okay.
20:14:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, ma'am, very much.
20:14:22 Miss Cole.
20:14:25 You may not want to answer this on the record, but, you
20:14:28 know, I want to be clear so -- when people come up and
20:14:35 tell me that we can deny this --
20:14:37 >>JULIA COLE: You are not reviewing this is the same
20:14:40 context as the Special Use Permit.
20:14:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I wanted you to explain that.
20:14:45 >>JULIA COLE: This is the general process for these kind
20:14:48 of applications, but Florida statutes limits your review
20:14:53 to place reasonable development standards and conditions
20:14:55 on the expansion only.
20:14:58 My opinion, you wouldn't have the authority to deny the
20:14:59 Special Use Permit.
20:15:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I just wanted you to say that on the
20:15:06 record to these people because they keep coming up and I
20:15:08 don't want people to get any -- leave here with some
20:15:12 false hope or some impression that we have all this
20:15:14 authority when we are limited by the state law.
20:15:17 And that's why I had Miss Cole come and speak to that on
20:15:18 the record.
20:15:22 Next speaker.
20:15:24 >> Good evening, Councilmembers.
20:15:25 Thank you very much.
20:15:26 Michelle Shimberg.
20:15:28 I live at 3214 Fountain Boulevard.
20:15:30 And I have been sworn in.
20:15:34 I am the parent of two current Plant High School students
20:15:37 and also serve as the PTA President.
20:15:39 I am here representing my family's views and our support
20:15:41 of this project.
20:15:45 We urge to you support the request to replace the
20:15:49 temporary portables that are present on Plant's campus
20:15:50 with 16 permanent classrooms.
20:15:53 You heard about the reasons we need to replace those.
20:15:55 They are unsightly, they are unsafe, and they are
20:15:58 inconvenient for students.
20:16:01 I have students each day who are inconvenienced if there
20:16:05 is weather, if there is threat of weather.
20:16:06 Learning stops.
20:16:08 And the reason that Plant High School attracts the kind
20:16:10 of families that we attract is because of our outstanding
20:16:13 academic reputation.
20:16:13 It is stellar.
20:16:15 People move into this district.
20:16:17 They buy homes in this district and property values are
20:16:20 positively impacted because of Plant's outstanding
20:16:23 When learning stops because of weather conditions in
20:16:24 Florida, that's a problem.
20:16:28 So I encourage you strongly to consider that.
20:16:32 Plant's proposal is designed to serve our current student
20:16:35 population, not to add or open boundaries for additional
20:16:39 students and not approving this request would actually be
20:16:42 a tremendous loss for our current Plant students.
20:16:44 The strong traditions of our school are well known
20:16:46 throughout our community.
20:16:49 The academic, athletic and artistic excellence bring
20:16:53 many, many accolades to South Tampa and I urge you to
20:16:56 support the request to build a classroom addition to
20:16:59 house our current Plant students and continue the strong
20:17:00 panther tradition.
20:17:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
20:17:04 >> I would also like to ask members in the audience that
20:17:06 are here.
20:17:08 In the interest of your time, if they are in support of
20:17:13 this request if they would stand at this moment that it
20:17:14 would be more timely for you.
20:17:17 Thank you.
20:17:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
20:17:28 >> My name is James Osman.
20:17:30 I am directly affected by the building and I am also
20:17:31 sworn in.
20:17:34 I am against it, of course.
20:17:39 I think mainly I don't trust their answers.
20:17:42 In the 25 years I have lived there, they haven't been
20:17:46 very truthful with us, either about their -- no matter
20:17:49 what the plans are over there, what they are going to
20:17:51 build, what they are going to do.
20:17:55 If there is a negative rumor about -- it has been 99% of
20:17:58 the time that negative rumor is true about what their
20:18:00 intentions are.
20:18:01 They are not open.
20:18:03 They don't us what is going on.
20:18:06 ICS explain to you about that -- I can explain to you
20:18:09 what that parking lot brought up a couple of times at the
20:18:12 end of Sterling that they used that exception to open
20:18:13 parking to their teachers.
20:18:17 I have been lied to by the principal about what has
20:18:19 happened there and how many responses they have been
20:18:21 I think it is wrong.
20:18:23 I think the numbers they are giving you are wrong about
20:18:26 who is at that school, the students going there.
20:18:29 I think it is very deceptive.
20:18:32 I had two sons who went there and graduated also, and one
20:18:35 of the biggest jokes in the world was how many hardship
20:18:38 cases are there and they drive a car.
20:18:41 If that isn't a contradiction, I don't know what is.
20:18:44 It is like with the school board, it is like we get
20:18:47 money, let's make Plant bigger.
20:18:50 Have they thought of any other recourse to make this
20:18:52 happen other than building that addition?
20:18:55 And what I mean by that is, we know that Jefferson and
20:18:58 Robinson are underutilized schools.
20:19:05 We also know that the boundaries drawn for Plant are very
20:19:08 meticulously drawn.
20:19:11 Some people call it gerrymandering so certain
20:19:14 neighborhoods and certain people get included in that
20:19:17 Those numbers are included in the student population of
20:19:21 How about the freshman year.
20:19:24 How come Plant have to have a freshman class.
20:19:26 They didn't used to have one.
20:19:29 Get rid of the freshman class and let them go somewhere
20:19:30 There are your numbers.
20:19:33 Two things I could mention that wouldn't cost the school
20:19:35 board anything and all they would have to do is make a
20:19:37 hard decision about themselves, be honest, and cut off
20:19:39 the students who don't belong there.
20:19:42 And there are too many of them going there that don't
20:19:43 belong there.
20:19:44 It is as simple as that.
20:19:47 And what they are doing, that building is wrong.
20:19:49 It is an offense to me.
20:19:51 None of you would want it out your back door.
20:19:54 None of the school board would want it out their back
20:19:58 And none of these visitors that come into our
20:20:00 neighborhood every day and work at that school --
20:20:04 visitors, visitors would want it in their back yard.
20:20:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
20:20:07 >> They are willing to sell my house down the drainage
20:20:10 ditch for their own selfish little reasons.
20:20:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
20:20:13 >> My kid goes to Plant.
20:20:14 I go to Plant.
20:20:17 I teach at Plant.
20:20:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
20:20:21 >> It is a joke and I am against it.
20:20:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
20:20:30 >> I will give him another minute if he wants.
20:20:32 He does live next door.
20:20:34 I will give up one of my minutes if he wants to -- does
20:20:36 he have anything else --
20:20:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We don't offer it like that.
20:20:39 >> Okay.
20:20:39 All right.
20:20:41 Good evening.
20:20:43 I am Kevin Mineer.
20:20:48 I live at 3415 West Palmyra.
20:20:52 I live about eight houses from Plant High School.
20:20:55 I moved ironically enough from a house directly across
20:20:57 the street from Roosevelt Elementary.
20:21:00 I am a supporter of the new meeting at Plant high.
20:21:03 It is one of the top schools in the county cycle, one of
20:21:06 the best in the state, one of the best in the nation.
20:21:09 Plant high taught my child and she is now in a great
20:21:11 college thanks to Plant.
20:21:14 Plant high have taught and will teach my neighborhood
20:21:17 kids and has been teaching kids in my neighborhood for 82
20:21:19 82 years.
20:21:21 I fully expect them to teach kids for 82 more years;
20:21:24 however, because Plant is such an attractive school with
20:21:28 a somewhat wealthy clientele, lots of kids drive.
20:21:31 Even though there seems to be spaces available in the
20:21:33 student lot, some kids park in the neighborhood,
20:21:35 including parking in front of my house.
20:21:36 Most of these kids are fine.
20:21:38 Some are not.
20:21:43 I am sure you have heard stories about kids with a bad
20:21:46 mistaken sense of entitlement and blocked sidewalks and
20:21:49 mess with street cleaners, left trash, et cetera, et
20:21:51 Fortunately the city has got a solution.
20:21:54 You put up one of those five-minute no parking signs.
20:21:59 I put one of those up in front of my house, and the bad
20:22:00 kid went away.
20:22:04 I will always support Plant in whatever they want to do.
20:22:07 They have a wonderful heritage that goes back to 1926.
20:22:11 My house was built in '24, so I beat them by two years.
20:22:13 I have elderly friends who went to Plant.
20:22:15 Their kids went to Plant.
20:22:16 Their grandkids are going to Plant.
20:22:19 I am glad my daughter was part of Plant's heritage.
20:22:22 I hope my grandkids get to go to Plant.
20:22:24 If Plant high needs this building to continue to do what
20:22:28 they do best, to teach our kids, then I think they should
20:22:28 get it.
20:22:30 Thank you.
20:22:32 And I can answer any questions about the five-minute
20:22:34 parking sign.
20:22:36 It works for me.
20:22:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
20:22:45 >> Good evening.
20:22:51 My name is Frederica Gastof.
20:22:55 I live next door to Mr. Osman.
20:22:59 As a graduate of Plant -- HB Plant High School.
20:23:05 The daughter of a football player who was in the first
20:23:12 class at Plant and a 73-year neighbor of Plant, I have
20:23:15 earned the right to file a formal complaint against
20:23:21 The permit will compound the problems that can or will
20:23:29 not be solved interimly or with the neighbor.
20:23:34 My privacy will be destroyed with the two-story
20:23:40 Overpopulation of the students, the noise from the
20:23:45 construction alone, and I would guaranteed by the
20:23:53 building engineer that they are going to work seven days
20:23:54 a week.
20:23:59 That is very, very disconcerting.
20:24:07 I believe that Plant can control their problems.
20:24:10 But they can't control it if something is not done by the
20:24:16 I realize that you have limited amount of power as far as
20:24:21 the variance is concerned, but I am a neighbor who is
20:24:26 asking you to please file against this.
20:24:30 I did bring some pictures, but I won't show them because
20:24:31 they have already been -- you have already talked about
20:24:37 Do I have any questions from anybody?
20:24:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a question.
20:24:39 >> Yes.
20:24:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Miss Cole alluded to the statute and
20:24:47 let me just read it because I agree with her.
20:24:51 It says if a board -- like the school board -- submits an
20:24:54 application to expand an existing school site, the local
20:24:57 governing body that's us may impose reasonable
20:24:59 development standards and conditions on the expansion
20:25:02 only and says in a manner consistent with another
20:25:08 But -- so I agree with Miss Cole -- the interpretation.
20:25:12 I don't think under the statute that this body has the
20:25:13 ability to reject this.
20:25:18 It is not one of the options that Tallahassee given us.
20:25:20 >> May I ask you then sir --
20:25:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me ask you and see where this
20:25:25 Mr. Catalano had a suggestion because one of the things
20:25:29 that we can do as Miss Cole indicated, our attorney, is
20:25:33 -- is we can impose reasonable development standards and
20:25:34 conditions on the expansion.
20:25:39 Mr. Catalano suggested the -- the windows that you can't
20:25:41 really see through.
20:25:43 They let in light, but they can't see through.
20:25:47 I think that may be a reasonable suggestion that council
20:25:48 might want to consider and hopefully the school board
20:25:51 will consider so we can work through that.
20:25:54 Do you have any other specific reasonable suggestions?
20:25:55 >> Yes, I do.
20:25:59 I would be willing to accept a wall that would run from
20:26:02 Himes all the way through, straight through, to Dale
20:26:05 Mabry on the property of the school.
20:26:09 12-feet wall.
20:26:15 If -- and I will even take a 10-foot wall to properly
20:26:18 stamp out the school completely.
20:26:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And mainly for noise or visual or --
20:26:23 >> For everything.
20:26:26 Anything to cut off the Sterling dead end which has
20:26:32 become a completely sore point in -- to -- traffic is
20:26:34 unbelievable there.
20:26:37 There is no reason for it.
20:26:40 For one thing, it is against the law.
20:26:43 There is no reason -- I have already done the homework on
20:26:46 that, and they have told me the traffic department told
20:26:51 me that no one can use a dead end as a private drive.
20:26:53 It is illegal.
20:26:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Several principals ago I was assured
20:27:03 that gate -- what street is it -- Sterling -- the
20:27:07 Sterling gate would not be used and it apparently started
20:27:08 getting open again.
20:27:11 I was surprised to hear tonight that it was being used
20:27:14 But the good news is we will have it in writing as a
20:27:17 condition of this project that they are going to keep it
20:27:19 closed except for emergency vehicles.
20:27:22 >> Do you know how many times I have been lied to?
20:27:26 And I hate -- I am 73 years old, and this has been a
20:27:29 continuous thing with this is the lying.
20:27:34 I am -- I am sorry, I don't mean to be derogatory or
20:27:39 anything, but what they say and what they do are two
20:27:40 different things.
20:27:42 They are saying they only use it for emergencies, they
20:27:44 will use it any time they wish.
20:27:49 That is why I would like that 12-foot wall.
20:27:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
20:27:51 >> Thank you.
20:27:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
20:27:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to say while she is
20:28:00 coming up, I don't believe that construction is allowed
20:28:01 on Sunday at all by anybody.
20:28:06 Can our legal department just clarify that --
20:28:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think it is allowed during limited
20:28:10 Marty, you can check that.
20:28:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If we can --
20:28:15 >> Good evening, Nancy.
20:28:17 3415 likes avenue.
20:28:19 I have been sworn in.
20:28:22 I live within walking distance to Plant High School but
20:28:26 on the north -- on the northern side of the school, and I
20:28:32 look at Plant as a wonderful asset to the neighborhood.
20:28:35 I wish some of the neighbors would take advantage of
20:28:38 what's there for neighbors.
20:28:42 There are many artistic events that are open to -- to
20:28:46 anyone in the community, you know, music productions,
20:28:50 drama productions, chorus, band, all open to the
20:28:53 The sporting events, obviously some of the best.
20:28:57 Volleyball, soccer, basketball, football.
20:28:59 The football field is filled with members of the
20:29:03 community, young, old, everyone.
20:29:06 And then we've -- we've tried as parents to improve the
20:29:11 -- the site, you know the Dale Mabry entrance.
20:29:13 There is a beautiful wall and fence that we raised money
20:29:14 to put in.
20:29:18 We raised money for a marquee to let the community know
20:29:20 about the events that are going on.
20:29:23 You know, it is a beautiful school, and -- and obviously
20:29:30 the academic excellence is -- is very good.
20:29:31 So please support this.
20:29:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
20:29:35 Next speaker.
20:29:37 >> Hi, I am Linda Coleman.
20:29:44 And since 1972 lived on Palmyra avenue and that
20:29:47 overlooks Plant's parking lot.
20:29:49 I am unique because I taught in one of the portables for
20:29:52 several years and I agree they should be removed but I am
20:29:55 opposed to the Special Use Permit that they are
20:29:59 And I have want to thank you for still letting me speak
20:30:02 because I realize not a whole lot you can still do about
20:30:05 this, but they have not addressed school boundary to the
20:30:07 South with Robinson since 1991.
20:30:08 That is 18 years ago.
20:30:10 That means a stud couldn't have been born and already
20:30:13 graduated from High School since they last addressed that
20:30:17 The demographics have certainly changed since that time.
20:30:19 Moving on.
20:30:22 The students at Robinson which is underenrolled right now
20:30:26 and 50 students to Jefferson whose boundary goes to the
20:30:28 expressway would eliminate the need for eight of those
20:30:32 Secondly, if Plant is overcrowded they need to stop all
20:30:34 special and hardship assignments.
20:30:39 The handouts provided by Plant indicated a 96%
20:30:40 neighborhood auto school.
20:30:42 That means 4% are not neighborhood students.
20:30:45 Those 90 additional students require four additional
20:30:48 classrooms or portables.
20:30:51 Plant is classified as a school that is closed yet
20:30:54 nonneighborhood students are still allowed to attend.
20:30:57 Lastly, Plant administrators need to utilize every
20:30:59 classroom, every period in their existing building which
20:31:01 is currently not the case.
20:31:05 Every existing classroom should be used every period
20:31:06 before requesting the need for additional classrooms to
20:31:09 be built in summary particularly during these tough
20:31:11 economic times before spending millions of dollars to
20:31:15 build 16 additional classrooms, other solutions should be
20:31:20 Adjust by its boundaries which will decrease the need for
20:31:23 eight of those portables, staff approving nonneighborhood
20:31:25 students from attending Plant and decrease the need for
20:31:27 an additional four portables.
20:31:31 Current -- all currently available classrooms every
20:31:36 period which will add additional classrooms.
20:31:40 Solutions to Plant's problems that do not require the
20:31:43 construction of another building.
20:31:45 Tough decisions that would anger the families of students
20:31:46 that are impacted.
20:31:49 But I am relaying this to make the tough decisions should
20:31:52 not impact the quality of life in the neighborhood and a
20:31:54 waste to taxpayers' money.
20:31:55 Thank you.
20:31:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think you taught mine.
20:31:58 Thank you.
20:32:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thanks.
20:32:05 >> Hi, I am Cindy Ruff.
20:32:07 And I have been sworn in.
20:32:10 I am a parent at Plant High School.
20:32:12 I have a daughter who is a senior.
20:32:15 I am also the President of the academic foundation of
20:32:16 Plant High School.
20:32:17 I have two daughters.
20:32:20 My older daughter attended private school through 8th
20:32:23 grade and my younger daughter will as well.
20:32:26 We selected Plant High School because of the excellent
20:32:28 academics there.
20:32:30 It is where we wanted her to go to school.
20:32:34 We also felt very strongly about her participating in a
20:32:37 community environment, being part of this community of
20:32:42 South Tampa, and selected Plant for all of those reasons.
20:32:43 I fully support this building.
20:32:46 It is something that the school needs.
20:32:49 It is needed to educate my daughter and all of her
20:32:52 I think the goal would be that these students become
20:32:56 future leaders of Tampa and productive citizens here for
20:33:00 And I think that is the goal of the school to do that.
20:33:03 I work closely with the administration of Plant High
20:33:05 School, and I don't think there is one of them who would
20:33:08 want more and more students come to the school.
20:33:11 They have plenty of work to do with the kids who are
20:33:15 And the purpose of this building is to more fully service
20:33:16 the students that are there.
20:33:19 And I think that is their goal is to better educate the
20:33:22 kids that we have currently at Plant High School.
20:33:25 I thank you for your support and the support of the Plant
20:33:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
20:33:41 >> My name is Tim O'Meara.
20:33:43 I have been sworn in.
20:33:45 I am glad I waited to let some of the people steal some
20:33:46 of my thunder.
20:33:49 I do oppose it for what I consider a waste of taxpayers'
20:33:55 dollars when true rezoning, this money does not need to
20:33:55 be spent.
20:33:58 And talking about transferring or using other High
20:33:59 Schools in the area.
20:34:01 It is a very valid point and I think it should be looked
20:34:04 I am not going to talk about the parking.
20:34:08 It is not a huge problem on Palmyra.
20:34:12 When the car is illegally parked, the police do come and
20:34:13 ticket it.
20:34:18 What I do want to talk about and the gist seems to be the
20:34:20 effect of the school on the neighborhood and the negative
20:34:23 The crime -- there is crime from the students.
20:34:24 There have been stolen articles.
20:34:29 The Catalanos have had drugs put on their property.
20:34:30 The noise, the parking.
20:34:34 What I would like to talk about is the effect of the
20:34:38 neighborhood on the -- on the proposed new classrooms.
20:34:45 You say that you are limited to a reasonable effect on
20:34:48 I think it would be reasonable to not have the new
20:34:51 classrooms so close to the neighborhood.
20:34:56 I live -- I am the third house in from Himes.
20:34:59 I bought the house with the school being -- I think they
20:35:01 said it was roughly 39 feet away.
20:35:04 The new setback will be 46 feet.
20:35:10 There is no buffer between the properties that I am
20:35:13 associated with, the old addition.
20:35:15 The school was not there first.
20:35:17 My house was also built in 1926.
20:35:21 And I have an aerial photo preaddition.
20:35:24 It must have been at least -- I am going to estimate 100
20:35:29 to 150 feet between the properties and the school -- and
20:35:33 the new addition done in the '50s and '60s.
20:35:36 You are going to repeat a mistake that was made back in
20:35:39 the '50s and '60s by building this new addition so close
20:35:42 to current property.
20:35:46 One of my neighbors and I did a little experiment a
20:35:47 couple of days ago.
20:35:51 On Tuesday before he went to work he put a radio in his
20:35:52 back yard and turned it on.
20:35:57 It wasn't loud but somewhat irritating music.
20:36:00 Immediately the classroom windows were closed that were
20:36:02 affected by the noise.
20:36:04 Now the classroom windows are not supposed to be open
20:36:07 according to one of the supervisors.
20:36:11 Within 15 minutes the police came to cite him for
20:36:14 disturbing the school.
20:36:19 If you build the new classrooms so close to private
20:36:23 property, anyone in their back yard reading a newspaper
20:36:27 and playing a radio is going to -- or will render the
20:36:29 classrooms unusable.
20:36:31 It is a huge waste of money.
20:36:34 I think you need to build the classrooms deeper into the
20:36:38 school property to afford an acoustic barrier from the
20:36:41 students and the neighborhood.
20:36:46 The neighborhood can negatively effect the classrooms.
20:36:46 Thank you.
20:36:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
20:36:51 Thank you, sir.
20:36:53 >> Hi, Barbara wiles.
20:36:56 Live at 4601 west San Miguel street and I come in favor
20:36:58 of this.
20:37:02 I would like to say that I volunteer every Wednesday at
20:37:05 Plant High School in the college guidance office, and my
20:37:08 shift is in the afternoon, and I am amazed every single
20:37:13 time that I am there that if I am working until 3:15,
20:37:14 there is no traffic.
20:37:15 Everything has cleared out.
20:37:18 So it is amazing how quickly these administrators are
20:37:21 able to successfully able to move those students off the
20:37:25 Secondly I would like to say as a parent I had two
20:37:27 daughters, one who recently graduated.
20:37:31 She transferred into Plant as a junior hand to go at 6:00
20:37:34 in the morning to get a parking -- hopefully get a
20:37:34 parking pass.
20:37:38 And she was successful, but a junior there at Plant who
20:37:40 was not able to get a parking pass.
20:37:44 Plenty of kids at Plant who do not have the ability to
20:37:45 park at Plant.
20:37:50 My third point I want to bring up I recently moved at a
20:37:53 house zip code to the same zip code.
20:37:56 I received several calls from Mr. Thompson in one day,
20:37:58 the assistant principal.
20:38:01 I was certain my child was in trouble, but he had called
20:38:06 me to ask me to bring proof to the school that I had
20:38:08 moved my address.
20:38:12 And I believe when my first child transferred in I I
20:38:13 needed to bring a utility Bill.
20:38:15 He said that would not be sufficient.
20:38:18 I needed to bring a rental agreement or a copy of my deed
20:38:25 to the school along with the utility Bill to prove that I
20:38:26 have moved.
20:38:28 So I believe that the administration is using their best
20:38:31 effort to make sure that people live within the district.
20:38:32 Thank you.
20:38:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much, ma'am.
20:38:39 >> I am Denise Monty.
20:38:42 I am the secretary of the Palma ceia neighborhood
20:38:45 association and I have been sworn in.
20:38:48 Most of what I have put down here has been said.
20:38:51 The neighborhood association knows that Plant is a good
20:38:53 That is not an issue.
20:38:54 It is a wonderful school.
20:39:01 But in 2005, John and I and the Plant administration at
20:39:04 the time sat down with the very same issues of parking
20:39:06 and traffic and tried to get them straightened out with
20:39:09 less than 2,000 students at the school.
20:39:13 We are going through the same thing, the same thing.
20:39:19 Our concern as neighbors is that it is too large.
20:39:21 The Plant High School is too large.
20:39:23 It is a wonderful school and I don't blame anyone for
20:39:26 wanting to go there, but the boundaries have got to be
20:39:30 changed so we don't keep 2400 students on that small
20:39:34 piece of land on a narrow street.
20:39:36 And if they may clear out that you can't get anywhere
20:39:38 near that school.
20:39:42 I invite you to come between quarter of 3 and 3:00 any
20:39:45 afternoon and try to get through Himes, San Miguel, San
20:39:47 Jose or any of them.
20:39:50 Anyway, I just want to say our issue is not that it is a
20:39:51 wonderful school.
20:39:52 It is a wonderful school.
20:39:54 It is just way too large.
20:39:57 And even though you don't have maybe the power to deny
20:40:00 this, please look at this and maybe work with the school
20:40:04 board to see about doing something about how large it is.
20:40:07 It is too large for the property that it is on.
20:40:09 And the small neighborhood that it surrounds.
20:40:11 Thank you very much for your time.
20:40:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
20:40:21 >> Hi, my name is Derek Thomas.
20:40:23 I am a teacher at Plant High School.
20:40:25 And I am also a member of the South Tampa community that
20:40:28 feeds to Plant High School where I am very proud that my
20:40:30 children will attend one day.
20:40:36 My purpose for stepping up here is to just kind of answer
20:40:38 to some of the questions and comments that I have heard.
20:40:40 First of all, I have a classroom at Plant.
20:40:44 I am one of the lucky teachers who do have a classroom at
20:40:48 Plant and do not have to float, carry my stuff with me
20:40:50 from classroom to classroom to classroom and
20:40:53 ineffectively teach children because I don't have a place
20:40:56 to teach because every classroom at Plant high is used
20:41:00 and every classroom is used every period.
20:41:04 I am not sure where that misconception came from.
20:41:07 Also, yes, we have a lot of students.
20:41:10 We have a lot of amazing students, and to watch them
20:41:13 being put out of classrooms because it is raining or
20:41:16 because there is bad weather and to watch the teachers
20:41:20 that are then forced to redesign curriculum because they
20:41:23 can't be in their room and have to move them to a
20:41:26 cafeteria that is ineffective to teach in is very hard,
20:41:28 and knowing that these kids are not able to get the
20:41:30 education that they are there for just because it is
20:41:34 raining outside because they can't walk from a portable
20:41:40 into a school is also not an effective thing to do.
20:41:43 These extra classroom also do nothing but meet the need
20:41:46 that we have, and I think that is what you guys are here
20:41:47 to see and look at.
20:41:49 And that is what these classrooms will do.
20:41:52 It will not do anything else but help us as teachers
20:41:55 better teach these kids.
20:41:56 Thank you.
20:41:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much, sir.
20:41:59 Anyone else?
20:42:00 Anyone else?
20:42:05 Okay, Miss Grimes, you want to come back for rebuttal?
20:42:07 Or do you want to come back to address some of those
20:42:11 issues and maybe speak specifically to some of the
20:42:15 >> Yes.
20:42:18 As far as the -- I will now quickly go through some of
20:42:21 the rebuttal comments.
20:42:26 Mr. Catalano mentioned that -- that you had the option of
20:42:28 just simply denying that application.
20:42:29 That is simply not accurate.
20:42:33 As you know in this is a quasi judicial hearing supposed
20:42:37 to be based on evidence and testimony in the record and
20:42:39 that evidence and testimony have to relate to code
20:42:42 You can't deny just because people don't want it.
20:42:44 All the testimony that you heard today, most of which
20:42:46 came from the opposition, none of it specifically related
20:42:48 to any of the code criteria.
20:42:50 The only competent and substantial evidence that you have
20:42:53 on the record related to the code criteria is the
20:42:57 testimony of your staff which has been incorporated into
20:43:00 your staff report and the expert testimony of Lorraine
20:43:06 So only based on competent and substantial evidence upon
20:43:08 which you can act.
20:43:12 He also brought up the issue of the obscure glass on the
20:43:15 -- on the bottom row of the second-story windows.
20:43:18 First of all, the condition where that is not
20:43:20 incorporated into the mitigation techniques that we
20:43:23 proposed is because it is architecturally inconsistent
20:43:26 with the design of Plant High School.
20:43:30 When the last construction project was done out there,
20:43:33 the school did receive criticism about the architectural
20:43:36 design and some of the colors used.
20:43:39 Once you put in that object Kerr glass, it is going to be
20:43:42 It is not -- it is not going to go away.
20:43:45 It is going to be obscured glass, different from all the
20:43:47 other glass in the building, different from the glass on
20:43:49 the bottom floor row of windows.
20:43:53 And then the other thing is, is the expense of it all.
20:43:56 If you are going to put in the obscure glass, then it
20:43:59 does not make sense to also incorporate the enhanced
20:44:02 landscape buffer because within a couple of years, those
20:44:04 trees are going to grow.
20:44:09 Those tree also be 14 feet high at the time of planting.
20:44:10 At the time planting.
20:44:13 Want year and a half to two years, you won't be able to
20:44:17 see the windows from the back yard of the lots that abut
20:44:18 the addition.
20:44:22 So all it really is an interim stopgap measure and
20:44:25 permanent improvement that will be architecturally
20:44:27 inconsistent with the design of the structure and we
20:44:29 think it is unnecessary.
20:44:34 If you request or require that that condition be imposed,
20:44:39 then what we would ask -- or remove from our offer from
20:44:42 the table the enhanced landscape buffer, and we will just
20:44:48 simply comply with whatever the minimum landscape buffer
20:44:50 is in the SREF.
20:44:54 It doesn't make sense to do both when it is only for an
20:44:59 interim period of time.
20:45:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You can't speak from the audience.
20:45:07 >> Miss Reid mentioned about the drainage.
20:45:11 And we wanted to put on the record that they will not be
20:45:12 utilized in the addition.
20:45:15 Even though she was dealing with South hall, miss Valdez
20:45:18 said she would be glad to meet with miss Reid anyway and
20:45:21 see if that problem can be addressed as far as the
20:45:24 drainage is concerned.
20:45:29 Miss -- miss Catalano also mentioned -- she had the
20:45:32 question about the 14 feet of the height of the trees.
20:45:36 That will be 14 feet after planting.
20:45:38 She asked a question about the lighting that will be
20:45:39 incorporated in the building.
20:45:43 The school district has what is called the lights-out
20:45:46 policy where the buildings are not lit at night.
20:45:48 So that would not be an issue.
20:45:52 I did not catch her last name but first name was
20:45:56 Frederica that lives on Palmyra.
20:45:58 She asked about the construction schedule.
20:46:02 We plan on using a six-day-a-week construction schedule
20:46:05 but given how construction sometimes occurs, we do need
20:46:08 the leeway to sometimes go to seven days a week.
20:46:10 We obviously have to comply with city code requirements
20:46:16 for whatever limited hours are applicable on Sundays, but
20:46:18 we are not planning to work on Sundays.
20:46:21 We are planning only to work six days a week.
20:46:24 And she also raised a question and said that she felt
20:46:28 like the administration had lied to her several times in
20:46:29 the past.
20:46:31 Especially she was concerned about the gate and whether
20:46:35 in fact the gate would be closed and use for emergency
20:46:35 access only.
20:46:40 As you all know it will be incorporated in site plan.
20:46:42 And only use it for emergency access.
20:46:45 And in addition to that, Mr. Catalano didn't mention
20:46:48 that, but he met with the supervisor herself --
20:46:52 superintendent -- sorry, superintendent herself Mary
20:46:55 Ellen, and the first question he asked was about closure
20:46:57 of the gate and she immediately said yes.
20:46:58 There was no negotiation.
20:46:59 No hedging.
20:47:00 There was no pausing.
20:47:05 She immediately agreed to make that gate emergency access
20:47:08 And we will do that and we have already incorporated into
20:47:09 the site plan.
20:47:10 I don't think her concerns about lying by the
20:47:13 administration are valid.
20:47:18 And -- and as far as her request for the 12-foot wall, it
20:47:21 is -- we already are exceeding the landscape and buffer
20:47:26 requirements, and we are not willing to install any kind
20:47:31 of wall along that property line.
20:47:34 Miss -- I believe it was Miss Coleman talked about the
20:47:39 boundaries and the last time they were changed was in
20:47:42 I don't know if you had an opportunity to look at the
20:47:44 historical attendance figures I provided you in your
20:47:48 information, but the attendance figures for Plant High
20:47:51 School and probably all schools, they fluctuate over
20:47:55 You can see just in the last ten years, the attendance
20:47:59 figures for Plant have gone all the way down to back in
20:48:02 2005 just five years ago, they were down 1800.
20:48:06 And then they increased, you know, by 100 or so every
20:48:09 year, and I am certain once the economy picks back up,
20:48:11 you will find that a lot of the students who were
20:48:14 attending public school will then return to the private
20:48:16 schools and the numbers go up and down and they
20:48:19 But at this stage, we don't think there is any
20:48:22 justification at all for any kind of boundary change.
20:48:27 She also raised the issue about special assignment and
20:48:29 the hardship.
20:48:32 I have gave you a lot of material on that subject and we
20:48:36 did an evaluation of other schools and the number of
20:48:39 hardship and special assignment schools that they have.
20:48:43 The term is no longer "special assignment" they have done
20:48:44 away with that.
20:48:47 They have choice hardship on a district-wide.
20:48:50 It is done downtown and not school by school so it is
20:48:51 uniformly applied.
20:48:53 Basically for medical reasons.
20:48:56 That is the only reason you can attend a school outside
20:48:58 your neighborhood and Plant High School have a total of
20:49:02 88 choice hardship and special assignment students.
20:49:05 And based on their population, that is only 3.8% of the
20:49:12 total student population which means 96.2% of the
20:49:15 students are from the neighborhood or from within the
20:49:15 Plant boundaries.
20:49:18 That is third best in all of the districts.
20:49:23 Alonso has 97.9% of neighborhood students.
20:49:26 East bay has 97.
20:49:29 Plant is third with 96.2%, the percentage of neighborhood
20:49:32 students, nonspecial assignment, nonchoice hardship that
20:49:34 attend Plant is the third best in the district.
20:49:40 So there isn't this -- I think widespread policy or
20:49:44 understanding or perception that Plant grants these
20:49:48 special assignments or choice hardships for anybody who
20:49:49 asks for them.
20:49:50 It is simply not true.
20:49:54 You heard from one of the teachers that in fact every one
20:49:56 of the classrooms is utilized and that is based on
20:50:01 whatever staffing limitations they have.
20:50:07 Mr. Romera also requested that the -- that the addition
20:50:09 be set back further or that was too close.
20:50:13 The city code only requires a 7-foot setback requirement
20:50:20 in this situation; however, the SREF has a -- we are 40
20:50:24 feet back and we are double what the SREF requirement is
20:50:27 and more than six times what the city code requirement
20:50:31 With that we don't think it is reasonable to deny this
20:50:37 application based on -- based on the setback requirement.
20:50:42 The only thing I wanted to touch on, and if you don't
20:50:45 think I need to provide this additional testimony, Mr.
20:50:48 Chairman or members of council, was on the parking
20:50:50 situation and the parking diagram that I had.
20:50:59 We think that as Kevin Mineer testified the use of
20:51:02 five-minute parking signs wherever the property owner
20:51:04 wants to install them is the most effective way to
20:51:07 prevent people from parking in front of your house to
20:51:10 prevent them from blocking your driveway and so forth.
20:51:13 We think that -- most of the streets within Plant's
20:51:17 vicinity have city no parking signs or the five-minute
20:51:18 parking signs.
20:51:21 So we don't think park something quite the issue that has
20:51:24 been testified to, and we don't think that the school
20:51:28 addition has an impact on parking given that situation.
20:51:30 I am here to answer any other questions.
20:51:33 With that, you have your staff recommending approval.
20:51:35 The Planning Commission recommending approval.
20:51:38 Again, the only evidence that you heard was our evidence,
20:51:42 which is the expert testimony of Lorraine Suarez that
20:51:46 establishes that all the code criteria is met.
20:51:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On the -- on the work days, six days a
20:51:54 week, what time will be the start-up time in terms of --
20:51:58 >> We would abide by whatever the city regulations.
20:52:00 I think on the weekends are 8:00 on Saturday --
20:52:05 >> If I can clarify for council and I am looking at the
20:52:15 city code, and section 14-151 -- 14 being offenses
20:52:16 talking about noise.
20:52:20 It says the noise limitation standards for construction
20:52:26 are contained in section 5-301.2, City of Tampa code.
20:52:27 That is the building code.
20:52:30 And one of the things that we should talk about is one
20:52:33 could very well argue that the City of Tampa building
20:52:38 code in and of itself is preempted by state law, but just
20:52:42 being that aside, the only section that is referenced
20:52:47 5-301.2 is titled loud noise generated by construction
20:52:50 activity on private property near residential use.
20:52:55 And that sets forth the hours of operation.
20:52:59 It says the generation of any avoidable or unreasonably
20:53:02 loud, disturbing or unnecessary noise by construction
20:53:05 activity on private property other than between the hours
20:53:09 of 7 a.m. and 6 p.m. Monday through Friday, 8 a.m. to 6
20:53:15 p.m. on Saturday or 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. on Sunday is
20:53:19 prohibited if such construction activity is within 1500
20:53:23 feet of any building or portion thereof which is actually
20:53:28 occupied in use either by a single family or multifamily
20:53:32 For purpose of this article, quote, unavoidable or
20:53:34 unreasonable disturbing unnecessary noise by construction
20:53:38 activity on private property, end quote, shall mean any
20:53:43 noise arising from construction activity on private
20:53:46 property that exceeds the noise limitations set forth in
20:53:50 section 1--- 14-151 of the City of Tampa code and this
20:53:54 states the amount of decibels between certain hours.
20:53:57 So -- but the only thing that is here that I see --
20:54:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What is that code provision, numbers.
20:54:13 >> 5-301.2, which is referenced in section 14-151, sub 6.
20:54:20 Section 14-151 is entitled "excessive noise prohibited."
20:54:24 Sets the certain decibels among certain hours of
20:54:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern and councilman
20:54:33 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Miss Grimes, you answered
20:54:38 pretty much for me all of the reasonable development
20:54:40 standard questions that people had.
20:54:43 I do think that there are -- I have one big question and
20:54:46 I know you said that you know by code you -- you only
20:54:50 have to be -- what is the setback?
20:54:51 20 --
20:54:54 >> 27 for the city.
20:54:56 25 under the SREF.
20:54:57 >>MARY MULHERN: 25?
20:55:02 Just looking that the overall though, it does occur to me
20:55:08 that you might have been able to make everyone happy if
20:55:13 the -- if it was sited in the parking lot as opposed to
20:55:17 -- you got that huge parking lot and you could have just
20:55:22 sited it closer to the western -- I think that is the gym
20:55:26 or the cafeteria instead of right around -- along that
20:55:30 I mean I know it is probably too late to do that, but
20:55:34 that -- that would have been one possibility.
20:55:39 And then just the other thing I wanted to say was I think
20:55:44 it is obviously a problem that the overcrowding at the
20:55:48 school and the underutilization of the other two schools
20:55:51 -- two nearest schools and there is nothing we can do
20:55:55 about that here on City Council, but there certainly
20:56:01 should be some ability to go to the school board and to
20:56:04 ask for some -- some help on that.
20:56:08 And I am looking at the attendance figures, and there are
20:56:11 a few anomaly where is it went down, but for the most
20:56:18 part, it has been going up, you know, but -- a lot, and
20:56:23 right now -- what is it about 25% more than it used to
20:56:32 So I think people have legitimate concerns about the
20:56:35 school -- the Plant -- the site being too large and the
20:56:40 population being too large, but the school is trying to,
20:56:44 you know, fix the problem of the portables which are
20:56:46 inadequate and they need to do that.
20:56:48 So I think -- I don't know if you would be willing to
20:56:50 talk about why -- why the addition couldn't have been
20:56:56 further from the residential neighbors on the South side.
20:56:59 That's about the only thing I can see that -- that would
20:57:01 be -- we are talking about.
20:57:05 And I also think that as a city, we have been talking
20:57:09 about -- we talk about parking and we talk about
20:57:16 Plant had a terrible tragedy with a young woman who was
20:57:23 hit by a car and we are not a walkable city, and part of
20:57:27 the solution to congestion on streets is to have
20:57:28 on-street parking.
20:57:30 While it is a solution to not have someone park in front
20:57:36 your house to put up that sign, but also the option of
20:57:40 allowing parking in front of your house because it slows
20:57:41 down traffic on your street.
20:57:44 The other option is by having sidewalks.
20:57:47 A lot of these problems are city problems, but you can't
20:57:48 have it all.
20:57:53 If you live in an urban area, and you have a big great
20:57:57 High School where students need to get to and from.
20:58:00 So I think a lot of these solutions people should think
20:58:02 You should talk to us about parking and about those
20:58:07 issues, but as far as the numbers at the school, you have
20:58:09 got to go to the school district.
20:58:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder and Councilwoman
20:58:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
20:58:20 Is Mr. Nelson nearby?
20:58:25 While you are coming up, you know, I want to say, I
20:58:28 commend everybody for sticking with us until this hour at
20:58:34 Everybody has been very polite and we appreciate that
20:58:36 through the process.
20:58:37 I know this is difficult.
20:58:40 I think one thing we all have in common is we all love
20:58:42 Plant High.
20:58:43 They all do a great job there.
20:58:47 And a lot of people want to send their students there.
20:58:49 We also love our neighborhoods.
20:58:53 As a matter of disclosure, I used to be Vice President of
20:58:56 the same Palma ceia neighborhood association that is in
20:58:58 front of you tonight with great concern.
20:59:01 So I think we have to -- it is our job to balance those
20:59:05 concerns, and looking at the state statute, and it is a
20:59:07 little different, Gina, than most of our rezonings
20:59:11 because looking at the state statute, it says that you
20:59:14 guys submit an application to us, and we probably have to
20:59:17 approve it, and that's all fine and good, but then goes
20:59:20 continue to say we may impose reasonable development
20:59:22 standards and conditions on the expansion only.
20:59:25 So it is a little bit different when you stand there and
20:59:28 you say, you know, we are going to take away the trees if
20:59:31 we do the obscured glass.
20:59:33 And that is the typical development approach that you can
20:59:34 do that.
20:59:37 But I don't think that is necessarily the approach for
20:59:39 tonight for many reasons.
20:59:41 We can argue the law, but I am not going to argue the
20:59:42 law, okay.
20:59:45 I am going to argue the fairness of this and the fact
20:59:48 that who pays Mr. Nelson's salary along with every other
20:59:53 school employee here are the same exact citizens who are
20:59:55 here tonight on both sides of the issue.
21:00:00 Every single one of us, okay, pay for these schools to
21:00:02 operate these schools, and everybody deserves -- and
21:00:05 deserves a fair shake on us.
21:00:08 For us to start nitpicking about -- we are going to take
21:00:12 away the trees and give you the glass, okay, I thin is
21:00:13 really unfair.
21:00:17 You have your chief administrator for -- for construction
21:00:21 back there, and I want you -- as I am talking, I want you
21:00:25 to reconsider the position that Miss Grimes restated a
21:00:32 minute ago on that glass issue because, you know, what is
21:00:32 a reasonable condition?
21:00:37 Well, Mr. Catalano at 3701 and his neighbor at 3703 and
21:00:43 other neighbor at 3705 were, the three homes affected by
21:00:46 of this express privacy concerns with a two-story
21:00:48 building at 30 something feet tall.
21:00:51 They have privacy concerns and I believe in good faith
21:00:55 that is why James Catalano said at least put in the
21:00:56 obscured glass.
21:00:58 As far as historic -- the historic issue.
21:01:01 Nobody is going to see it.
21:01:01 Nobody cares.
21:01:04 And I don't think historic preservation anybody is going
21:01:08 to come after you on that obscure glass.
21:01:10 So anyway.
21:01:13 Why did I pull you up there, Mr. Nelson --
21:01:13 [ Laughter ]
21:01:17 -- I did -- I did have a reason.
21:01:20 One I want to congratulate you on another great football
21:01:25 season, but no seriously -- in all seriousness, one thing
21:01:28 that I think we have fallen short on is communication
21:01:28 with the neighborhood.
21:01:30 And I blame myself for it.
21:01:34 I am the district councilman for that area.
21:01:39 For a while I said like Dee mentioned westerly meeting
21:01:41 with the school pretty regularly and talking about these
21:01:43 issues and I think we have fallen off from that.
21:01:45 I know you are very busy.
21:01:48 Maybe you can even delegate it to another assistant
21:01:51 principal, but I think we need to get back doing that
21:01:53 probably on a twice-a-year basis.
21:01:54 Is that a condition we are going to put in this site
21:01:56 plan, no.
21:01:59 But the reason I asked to you come up is to -- you know,
21:02:01 as long as you are at Plant which hopefully might be for
21:02:06 the next 30 years, that you would perhaps give us your
21:02:09 agreement to do a better job on that.
21:02:10 >> I am definitely open to that.
21:02:13 I try to address all the neighbors' concerns as much as I
21:02:14 can within my power.
21:02:17 I mean every phone call, every E-Mail I try to return and
21:02:18 in a timely manner.
21:02:18 But absolutely.
21:02:20 I am definitely open to that.
21:02:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we need to formalize a little
21:02:26 bit and maybe twice a year have some meetings with the
21:02:28 neighborhood association, my office, whoever is in my
21:02:32 office in the future, and just -- and TPD is a big part
21:02:36 of this too because a lot of this is enforcement on
21:02:38 traffic and the parking issue.
21:02:40 But anyway, I wanted to throw that out there.
21:02:41 It is clearly not a condition.
21:02:45 On the construction hours, the code is not going to help
21:02:49 us, Gina, as Marty just explained it.
21:02:52 If you say you abide by the code, apparently our code has
21:02:55 weaknesses in terms of construction on public property
21:02:57 because it speaks to construction on private property.
21:03:00 And this is a public facility.
21:03:04 So I would like to see us perhaps have a reasonable
21:03:07 construction scheduled which I think that, again, you and
21:03:12 your facility folks can come up with of Monday through
21:03:15 Saturday construction during reasonable hours and frankly
21:03:19 I don't know why you would need to have Sunday
21:03:22 construction -- construction.
21:03:24 That seems to be something that the neighbors might find
21:03:26 offensive and I think all of us will find offensive,
21:03:28 especially -- let me clarify it.
21:03:31 Especially exterior construction.
21:03:33 When you get to the point of closing this thing up and
21:03:35 then you are on the inside, I don't think it matter what
21:03:37 is you are doing in there because you are not going to
21:03:39 hear it, but in terms of external -- exterior
21:03:42 construction, I think not doing that on Sunday is a
21:03:46 reasonable condition that I would like y'all to propose
21:03:49 to us so we don't have to impose it on you.
21:03:51 >> Do you want me to wait --
21:03:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me just wrap up.
21:03:58 Oh, last and most important, portables -- the portables
21:03:59 are lousy.
21:04:02 My children -- my daughter is out of there now.
21:04:04 You know going on 14 years I think, and I remember her
21:04:07 being in the portables and being dripping wet like the
21:04:12 young lady described herself, you know, on many, many
21:04:15 I don't know if they put the AP kids throughout on
21:04:16 purpose, but --
21:04:16 [ Laughter ]
21:04:19 -- but anyway, but -- it is just lousy.
21:04:21 The kids shouldn't have to operate out of them.
21:04:24 And I do probably believe they are not as safe as -- as a
21:04:25 main structure.
21:04:26 So I support that.
21:04:29 But only other question I have for you Mr. Nelson is, how
21:04:32 can you give this community some assurances that when you
21:04:37 build this additional wing to replace those x number of
21:04:40 portables that five years from now or when there is an
21:04:42 additional crunch on Plant High pushing the numbers
21:04:48 toward 27, 2800 to 3,000 or whatever it might be that the
21:04:51 school board wouldn't be wheeling in another half dozen
21:04:54 portables and take those numbers even higher.
21:04:58 >> I mean, I agree and obviously -- the district staff
21:05:00 continues to look at our projections every year.
21:05:02 I meet with my staff as we look at those projections.
21:05:06 You know from the middle school, you know, I give them
21:05:10 private school numbers because have an idea about that.
21:05:12 Like you said before Mr. Dingfelder, it is ball
21:05:14 communication with the neighborhood too so we don't have
21:05:16 -- oh, I gotcha and that surprise.
21:05:19 That is not -- definitely what I am not about.
21:05:22 But every year we sit down and look at projections with
21:05:24 that and our district staff with that.
21:05:28 Obviously I do not make a final decision on any type of
21:05:29 That is not my job.
21:05:31 It is the school board's position.
21:05:32 Not mine.
21:05:35 But we do sit down and talk about that every year with my
21:05:37 district staff.
21:05:39 >> How about the assurances that it is not going to be a
21:05:40 bait and switch.
21:05:42 We are going to build this building and five years from
21:05:45 now or even three years from now those mobiles, those
21:05:48 portables wouldn't come wheeling in.
21:05:49 >> Mr. Dingfelder, building the addition is to
21:05:51 accommodate the capacity we have.
21:05:56 It is not my intention to try to continue to increase an
21:05:59 already, you know, obviously crowded position right now
21:06:00 as far as the school.
21:06:03 But obviously -- like I said before, the school board
21:06:06 makes the final decision when it comes to projections and
21:06:06 the boundaries.
21:06:11 That is not my decision in the end with that.
21:06:13 But obviously concern -- I felt that concern was coming
21:06:16 up, I would definitely address my district staff in a
21:06:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
21:06:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena and Councilwoman
21:06:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
21:06:26 We are also proud of Plant.
21:06:28 I graduated from Plant.
21:06:30 My mom graduated from Plant.
21:06:33 Plant is a great school and in a way its success is the
21:06:34 problem here.
21:06:37 It reminds me of other successful community institutions
21:06:43 where we have these same problems of houses being smack
21:06:43 up against them.
21:06:46 I am thinking of Tampa General Hospital and St. Joe's and
21:06:53 some other very successful places that then grow and how
21:06:56 do you sustain their success within the boundaries that
21:06:58 are there.
21:07:01 I think that we had some very specific reasonable
21:07:01 suggestions tonight.
21:07:06 Mr. Catalano's idea about the obscured windows is
21:07:10 completely a reasonable thing and Miss Grimes, we are not
21:07:12 talking about a view from the street that the public -- I
21:07:17 mean this is a very obscure set of windows and I think
21:07:20 that it will take -- I don't know, three, five, eight
21:07:23 years for the trees to provide the same screening that
21:07:24 the windows would.
21:07:28 I think it is like the belt and suspenders analogy.
21:07:32 I think you need both.
21:07:34 Because the neighbors will be impacted by this.
21:07:37 And that would be my request to you is to figure out a
21:07:40 way to do both.
21:07:43 Ficus trees grow like crazy.
21:07:45 I wanted to put out a word --
21:07:47 >> What I wanted to say about the enhanced landscape
21:07:49 buffer that we agreed to at the request of these property
21:07:53 owners is that it was a way -- it is way and above beyond
21:07:56 what the code requires, and just for your information,
21:07:59 the school district is exempt from landscaping
21:08:02 requirements by state statute.
21:08:05 We had agreed initially to just comply with the city's
21:08:08 regular landscaping and buffering requirement, but we
21:08:12 thought the enhanced buffer of the live oaks, and you can
21:08:17 imagine how expensive 14-foot live oaks would be, 11 of
21:08:20 We can't see going to the expense of the enhanced
21:08:22 landscape buffer and also the expense of the opaque
21:08:28 If the opaque glass is going to -- going to obscure all
21:08:31 views into their back yard there is no need to do the
21:08:33 enhanced landscape buffer.
21:08:37 We can either comply with the city's -- well, what we
21:08:39 offered to do was comply with the city's normal buffering
21:08:44 requirements which is much less expensive trees at lower
21:08:50 But it makes no sense to spend the taxpayers' noun do
21:08:54 both when within couple of years one or the other won't
21:08:55 be necessary.
21:08:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I believe your architect is here and
21:09:00 I wonder if they can just roughly come up with the --
21:09:03 with the two prices -- how much money -- I mean, I don't
21:09:05 know how much money we are talking about.
21:09:10 >> Before we have them come up, miss Valdez would like to
21:09:14 address the issue of the class -- the class cap.
21:09:17 The monitoring that will be ongoing as far as the size of
21:09:18 the classes especially with the class size reduction
21:09:25 >> I wanted to just speak on this before you do -- on the
21:09:28 same topic of the opaque class because that was the one
21:09:31 thing that I forget to mention.
21:09:33 We have three councilmembers who think that is a
21:09:36 reasonable development standard to impose.
21:09:40 So we would like -- had a shout out from the back
21:09:44 agreeing to that, but I do think it would be good faith
21:09:47 and good neighbor effort to also provide the landscaping
21:09:53 because these people are having a building -- two-story
21:09:57 building imposed right on their back yard and I would
21:10:00 like to see that you agree to that and see that happen.
21:10:03 And I also think that there are economical ways to have
21:10:04 opaque glass.
21:10:07 I mean one of the things people do is use glass block
21:10:10 which is a pretty cheap material I think.
21:10:12 But there are a lot of options.
21:10:14 There are skylights to get the light in the classroom.
21:10:16 You are talking about moving students from a portable
21:10:22 which basically has maybe one window or none into a
21:10:26 And I think the opaque windows are reasonable things to
21:10:27 ask for.
21:10:33 And I would like to also see you keep the trees to.
21:10:36 >> Thank you, Kathy Valdez chief facility officers for
21:10:38 the school district.
21:10:40 A lot of conversation about boundaries, and then
21:10:44 councilman Dingfelder, specifically to your request of
21:10:47 the principal to commit to the fact that once we build
21:10:50 this addition then we are not going to be adding more
21:10:55 portables and certainly he didn't feel real comfortable
21:10:57 that it wouldn't be within his power to assure you of
21:11:00 But the district has a cap committee and now task force
21:11:03 that is looking into that right now, because not just at
21:11:06 Plant High School, but every High School, at every
21:11:08 elementary and every middle school this year.
21:11:11 When class size amendment is in full force, there is
21:11:13 going to be some real decisions to make.
21:11:18 Because when the school is full, and that next child goes
21:11:20 there and there is no room for him, then we have to
21:11:23 decide as a school district, do we send you down the
21:11:25 street, bus you down the street or change the boundary,
21:11:28 and that is what the school board is going to be
21:11:29 wrestling with all over the district.
21:11:32 And there is a task force looking into that to make
21:11:35 recommendations to the superintendent and then the
21:11:37 superintendent to our school board.
21:11:41 So I can assure you that it is a district-wide issue, it
21:11:44 is a state-wide issue quite frankly and we will be
21:11:45 dealing with that.
21:11:49 I don't anticipate that we are going to be adding huge
21:11:52 numbers of portables.
21:11:53 We are getting rid of portables.
21:11:56 I am happy to say that with one of our district goals.
21:11:58 We are well on our way of accomplishing that.
21:12:05 We have only about 200 being used for actual class loads
21:12:08 and continuing that effort to reduce those.
21:12:12 Modular classrooms are permanent capacities and we will
21:12:16 be right back here with you if we attempted to do that.
21:12:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
21:12:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
21:12:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think the question is on the trees and
21:12:40 the opaque glass, the response --
21:12:44 >> We -- we had agreed to the trees, and we were costing
21:12:45 that out.
21:12:47 The glass we are investigating.
21:12:49 We never said no to that.
21:12:52 Our position at the time to the site plan and the most
21:12:56 recent additions to the site plan in we were continuing
21:12:56 to investigate that.
21:12:58 We don't have pricing options, but we will continue to
21:13:04 look at that in both of those.
21:13:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can we continue until we hear back?
21:13:15 >> We heard from the neighbors.
21:13:21 I think Mr. Catalano said he would prefer the obscured
21:13:23 glass over the landscaping and this is what they want and
21:13:25 they would be the most effective than we would be willing
21:13:27 to agree.
21:13:29 >> I think -- there is a reasonable compromise as you
21:13:32 mentioned a minute ago, Gina, which is if you go -- if
21:13:35 you go back to the city landscaping standards, you are
21:13:38 still going to be putting in trees, right?
21:13:43 You are still -- still requires standard requirement
21:13:46 two-inch, four-inch tree.
21:13:47 >> Further apart.
21:13:49 Not as tall.
21:13:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think that is a reasonable
21:13:55 compromise to do in addition to the -- I hope do you the
21:14:00 viburnum hedge because that will grow fast and be thick.
21:14:04 And then add the obscure windows.
21:14:07 I think if we include all of those as conditions, I guess
21:14:10 that is a reasonable -- a reasonable compromise.
21:14:13 I would also like to hear on the construction hours,
21:14:15 because our code doesn't address it.
21:14:19 I believe we need to address it in the conditions --
21:14:22 >> We are willing -- even though I don't think it is
21:14:27 applicable either way Mr. Shelby read it, we are willing
21:14:29 to comply with the city's limitations on hour of
21:14:32 construction and we need to maintain the flexibility to
21:14:34 work on Sundays if necessary.
21:14:36 Remember we have until August 2010 to complete the
21:14:38 addition in order to meet the class size reduction
21:14:43 So just in the event that the construction gets behind
21:14:45 schedule, we may need to work on Sundays.
21:14:48 We do anticipate working indoors on Sunday, but we can't
21:14:51 agree to a condition that says we won't work on Sunday.
21:14:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Maybe something along the lines to
21:14:57 make all best effort to comply.
21:14:58 >> That will be fine.
21:14:58 That will be fine.
21:15:04 And also speaking of communication, miss Valdez offered
21:15:06 during the construction process, during the entire
21:15:10 construction process to have Frank Nelson from batch and
21:15:14 cook, the construction manager, to meet monthly with all
21:15:17 the residents in case issues arise as the construction
21:15:20 progresses so he can address their concerns, you know, on
21:15:22 an ongoing basis.
21:15:26 That is something that we are also are committed to do as
21:15:27 far as cooperating with the neighborhood.
21:15:32 But if -- if you were going to go with the obscured
21:15:34 glass, then what we would ask for, even though we are not
21:15:37 required to, we will comply with the city's buffer
21:15:39 requirement, landscape requirement.
21:15:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
21:15:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close the public hearing.
21:15:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
21:15:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
21:15:49 All in favor by signifying by saying aye.
21:15:53 Again -- John is going to read it.
21:15:57 We thank everybody for your --
21:15:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Participation.
21:16:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Participation tonight.
21:16:02 Okay, John.
21:16:04 We are still in session.
21:16:05 [gavel sounding]
21:16:08 We are still in session.
21:16:09 We have not adjourned.
21:16:11 Thank you.
21:16:12 [sounding gavel]
21:16:14 We are still in session.
21:16:16 We are still in session.
21:16:17 Class, class.
21:16:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If everybody can leave quietly if you
21:16:27 are going to leave.
21:16:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Just read, John.
21:16:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am going to read the following
21:16:32 ordinance and then I will get to the change sheet in a
21:16:35 An ordinance approving a Special Use Permit s 2 approving
21:16:39 a public school expansion in r S-100 single family zoning
21:16:43 district in the general vicinity of S. Himes Avenue in
21:16:48 the City of Tampa, Florida, as more prescribed as
21:16:51 provided an effective date with the following additions
21:16:54 and changes to the site plan that has been submitted as
21:16:57 of October 22.
21:17:03 Number one, identify and restore Sterling Avenue gate as
21:17:04 emergency access only.
21:17:08 Number two addresses the construction -- the use of the
21:17:10 Sterling gate during construction.
21:17:14 Leave island two alone as submitted by Miss Grimes.
21:17:18 Item three will be eliminate and substituted that the
21:17:22 landscape buffer agreed to by the school board will
21:17:25 comply with city standards for Commercial construction
21:17:29 adjacent to -- Commercial construction adjacent to
21:17:33 Is that what we are talking about?
21:17:39 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I believe section 2130 paren 2 which is
21:17:41 the screening requirements for 5-foot and 10-foot
21:17:47 That is a row of evergreen tree such as red cedar or
21:17:49 others planted 20 feet on center.
21:17:53 Trees will be 8 to 10 feet in height with 4 to 6-foot
21:17:55 spread and 30 gallons as planting.
21:18:01 A row of Evergreen shrubs in between the trees viburnum
21:18:06 or others.
21:18:08 24 to 36-inch spread.
21:18:14 Lawn, low growing, evergreen shrubs, evergreen ground
21:18:15 cover or mulch.
21:18:20 And items 2 a through 2 c doctor you don't need that one.
21:18:26 Sub paren 2 a 1, 2 and 3 is what I believe.
21:18:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Number four as submitted by Miss
21:18:32 Number five as submitted by Miss Grimes.
21:18:35 And number six as submitted by Miss Grimes.
21:18:40 And then number seven would be limitation on hours of
21:18:46 construction to -- that the school board will make it --
21:18:48 what did we say -- what did I say.
21:18:52 Use best efforts to comply with the conditions of 5.--
21:18:57 city code 5.301.2.
21:19:03 And -- and number 8 would be ate of obscured glass on the
21:19:08 lower -- what is it, the lower -- the lower pane of the
21:19:12 second floor facing to the South.
21:19:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
21:19:16 So moved -- moved and seconded.
21:19:19 Second by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
21:19:22 All in favor signify by saying aye.
21:19:27 >> Motion carried with Caetano and Miranda being absent.
21:19:31 Second reading and adoption will be on January 7, 2010 at
21:19:33 9:30 A.M.
21:19:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to receive and file.
21:19:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
21:19:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
21:19:42 All those in favor signify by saying aye.
21:19:46 One item before you all leave.
21:19:49 Number 6.
21:19:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Move the resolution.
21:19:52 >> Second.
21:19:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying eye.
21:20:05 Council, one last item is relative to security and
21:20:10 I do need to raise this tonight and Marty, officer miller
21:20:11 is not here.
21:20:14 >> He is not here this evening.
21:20:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
21:20:23 We -- we -- yeah, we -- we had an incident during the
21:20:26 course of the week, and it was advised that we take some
21:20:31 appropriate action to address the issue of security.
21:20:37 And that is -- one is that we put a panel access to this
21:20:42 door only limited to those who are coming in unless they
21:20:44 are, what, city employees.
21:20:45 >> City employees.
21:20:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: City employees will be the only ones
21:20:49 allowed access.
21:20:52 Anyone else will have to sign in -- right, sign in.
21:20:55 And the aides will have to escort them back to the
21:21:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That includes everybody?
21:21:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, that is --
21:21:04 >> Staff?
21:21:05 You said everybody.
21:21:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Except city staff.
21:21:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: With a badge.
21:21:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: They need to sign in which is your
21:21:15 requirement anyway.
21:21:16 It is not happening.
21:21:20 But they need to sign in and also our aides need to
21:21:21 escort them back to the office.
21:21:24 We believe this will help with some of the security
21:21:28 issues that we have -- given what has happened.
21:21:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What happened?
21:21:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, we will talk -- do we need to add
21:21:37 anything to that, Marty.
21:21:39 >> No, Council in is working with Officer Miller and his
21:21:44 captain, and it does require some modifications, extra
21:21:51 The code is going to be changed.
21:21:54 >> We've got another code to learn.
21:22:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Part of the issue is that -- is code
21:22:06 remain with the aides and the council persons and not
21:22:08 other unauthorized people.
21:22:12 The issue is are codes being given out as I understand
21:22:14 and -- yes.
21:22:18 >>MARY MULHERN: My issue is that door is never locked.
21:22:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It is going to be locked now.
21:22:22 >>MARY MULHERN: The outside door is never locked.
21:22:26 >> The outside door may not always be locked.
21:22:27 But the inside door will now.
21:22:31 The door that now has the opaque glass.
21:22:36 And from -- and from what I also understand based on the
21:22:38 security assessment of the police department, there is
21:22:41 going to be an extra keypad between -- well, rather than
21:22:45 talk about it publicly, all -- I guess the chair is just
21:22:49 asking is for you to be aware of it and for you to ask
21:22:52 your aids to be supportive of it because it is going to
21:22:53 require --
21:22:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I am going to go one step further and
21:22:57 ask for a motion if you are in agreement with that.
21:23:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, do we have a choice?
21:23:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I think we need to do something, so I
21:23:07 will certainly make that motion, but I also was thinking
21:23:13 today that we should have a security guard up here too.
21:23:18 I mean, we have the security guard in the lobby all the
21:23:21 >> Downstairs.
21:23:25 >>MARY MULHERN: We don't have one on this floor.
21:23:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But they pass the one in the lobby.
21:23:30 >>MARY MULHERN: When we have a meeting I guess.
21:23:31 Anyway --
21:23:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So that was moved.
21:23:35 South Florida a second to the motion?
21:23:40 >>MARY MULHERN: I made the motion to get the keypad --
21:23:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Keypad for the door.
21:23:43 That all --
21:23:45 >> A sign-in book.
21:23:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Sign-in sheet.
21:23:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: For all persons except for city
21:23:52 employees and the code remains only with the authorized
21:23:59 That will be your aides and council persons, right.
21:24:03 And I guess the police department.
21:24:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
21:24:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
21:24:08 All in favor signify by saying aye.
21:24:11 Also Marty.
21:24:16 Draft a letter so everybody can get a copy of the letter
21:24:17 with those requirements.
21:24:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Make the code simple.
21:24:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What about -- what about 1111.
21:24:29 >>GWEN MILLER: How about just one number.
21:24:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Make sure we got that on TV.
21:24:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That is what they do anyway.
21:24:39 Anything else to come before council?
21:24:40 We stand adjourned.
21:24:41 Thank you.
21:24:42 (Meeting adjourned)