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Thursday, December 10, 2009
5:30 p.m. Evening Session

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(Roll call in progress)
17:54:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.

17:54:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.

17:54:21 I hit that traffic over there with the gator game and

17:54:21 everything.

17:54:25 I apologize for being late.

17:54:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have two memorandums here today.

17:54:33 One is from Joseph Caetano.

17:54:37 Please be advised I will not be able to attend the City

17:54:40 Council evening meeting on December 10, 2009.

17:54:43 Thank you in advance for your attention to this matter.

17:54:47 And the other one is from Councilman Charlie Miranda.

17:54:50 Please be advised that I will be unable to attend the

17:54:54 City Council evening session on December 10, 2009, due to

17:54:55 a family illness.

17:54:57 Please see that the reason for my absence is read into

17:54:58 the record.

17:55:00 Thank you.

17:55:03 Okay.

17:55:11 Okay.

17:55:18 We need to pick up from this morning, Marty, on the text

17:55:22 amendments.

17:55:23 >> Yes.

17:55:28 I believe --

17:55:35 >>REBECCA KERT: Rebecca Kert, Legal Department.

17:55:38 I would like to take up the amendments with the legal

17:55:39 department.

17:55:41 This amendment deals with the clarification of chapter 27

17:55:43 dealing with the BLC.

17:55:47 We have previously amended Chapter 27 to make a general

17:55:50 statement that the design standards are more stringent

17:55:52 than other regulations in the code that the design

17:55:55 standards would apply.

17:55:58 What we have done this time is a more thorough review in

17:56:02 Chapter 27 where it would be appropriate to make that

17:56:04 recommendation in addition to that regarding the

17:56:07 recommendations that the BLC and ALC make to the City

17:56:10 Council, we added vacating applications that they in

17:56:13 practice have already been doing and we also provided a

17:56:15 notice provision for those recommendations which would be

17:56:18 appropriate and that is the posting at this time.

17:56:24 I am available if you have any questions.

17:56:30 >> The one starts on page 17 to 21 of this morning's --

17:56:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I thought we were continuing all of

17:56:34 these discussions.

17:56:37 >> I asked for them to be taken out of order because I

17:56:42 had a prior commitment.

17:56:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman.

17:56:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.

17:56:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: These are really cleanup provisions

17:56:56 because the technical manual shed things and came back

17:56:56 here.

17:56:58 >>REBECCA KERT: That is not accurate to say.

17:57:03 Based on case law, we made a change in the code that the

17:57:06 design standards if they require more stringent

17:57:10 development standards than those apply if you have a

17:57:13 greater maximum in your height area and setback.

17:57:16 What we have done this time is gone in more detail

17:57:18 throughout all the different provisions in Chapter 27

17:57:22 where it would be appropriate to also make that

17:57:24 clarification so everything is consistent and no

17:57:25 questions.

17:57:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This is a follow-on from the issue.

17:57:36 >> The key words are height and placement.

17:57:39 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes, that's correct.

17:57:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.

17:57:45 >>MARY MULHERN: Did anyone else want -- can you direct

17:57:48 me to -- on page 17, is that right?

17:57:51 >>REBECCA KERT: My pages are different but that's what

17:57:53 Mr. Shelby said, yes.

17:57:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, the whole thing.

17:58:01 >>REBECCA KERT: Various sections of Chapter 27.

17:58:04 >>MARY MULHERN: This was really supposed to be part of

17:58:08 our workshop and we weren't able to get to it.

17:58:09 And I think this is very important.

17:58:10 We need to continue this for discussion.

17:58:12 >>REBECCA KERT: I don't have any problem with that if

17:58:16 you would like to have a more detailed discussion on

17:58:16 this.

17:58:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I mean --

17:58:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Kathy said she will continue the

17:58:21 other one until next week.

17:58:24 >>REBECCA KERT: I have no problem with that.

17:58:25 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know --

17:58:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Continue this one to next week.

17:58:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Linda have you looked at this and read

17:58:30 this through.

17:58:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have not and I think continuing to

17:58:34 next week is a great idea.

17:58:38 >>MARY MULHERN: I move to continue to next week.

17:58:42 >>JULIA COLE: Julia Cole with the Legal Department.

17:58:44 You have a number of items you can go through.

17:58:47 I don't know if you just want to consider continuing --

17:58:49 and we were going to suggest that the electric fence

17:58:53 provision gets continued until 1:30 next week.

17:58:56 I understand only one alcoholic beverage permit on your

17:58:58 agenda for this afternoon.

17:59:01 I don't know if the City Council wouldn't prefer to move

17:59:05 the entire remainder of the provisions floor day.

17:59:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I think so.

17:59:08 I will move all the worked.

17:59:11 >> So shop items we didn't get to from this morning's

17:59:14 agenda until next week at 1:30.

17:59:16 >> Yes, you have one sale of alcoholic beverage and two

17:59:20 historic preservation property tax application which

17:59:22 normally take --

17:59:23 >>MARY MULHERN: All of the text amendments --

17:59:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A motion to continue to the 17th at

17:59:27 1:30.

17:59:30 Second by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

17:59:33 All in favor signify by saying aye.

17:59:34 Opposed?

17:59:35 Okay.

17:59:42 Thank you very much.

17:59:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Hold that thought.

17:59:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me -- City Council, let me take the

17:59:53 opportunity to recognize the Mayor's youth corp, if they

17:59:54 will please stand and be recognized.

17:59:58 They are here this evening in observance -- so we want to

17:59:58 recognize.

17:59:58 [Applause]

18:00:05 Now you have proof that you were here.

18:00:06 It is on television.

18:00:08 [Laughter]

18:00:14 Okay, thank you.

18:00:19 Okay.

18:00:27 We will take up the first item.

18:00:30 >>JULIA COLE: Julia Cole, Legal Department.

18:00:31 You have two ordinances.

18:00:36 One is an ordinance to approve an update 2009 edition of

18:00:38 the Transportation Technical Manual of Minimum Standards.

18:00:41 And the other one -- the other ordinance that you have in

18:00:45 front of you is an ordinance to amend Chapter 22 that

18:00:47 contains several provisions in it.

18:00:50 And I am going to quickly tell you the context of these

18:00:52 requested changes.

18:00:55 City Council is aware, we have been working to update our

18:00:59 technical manual, our Transportation technical manual for

18:01:00 some time.

18:01:02 Going through this process it was clear there were

18:01:06 provisions in our technical manual that were adopted into

18:01:08 code and several different places our technical manual

18:01:10 were adopted.

18:01:12 There were conflicts in what was in our tech manual

18:01:15 versus what was in our code.

18:01:17 We actually took a lot of time and had a lot of

18:01:20 discussions about stripping down the technical manual

18:01:24 down to the very basic minimum standards, and in a lot of

18:01:27 ways just adopting the recognized technical standards

18:01:30 that are within the State of Florida.

18:01:33 So that we have really taken a manual that was very

18:01:37 large, narrowed it, narrowed its focus, its scope, the

18:01:39 minimum safety standards which really is what your

18:01:42 technical manual should be providing, minimum safety

18:01:43 standards.

18:01:47 The second ordinance does several things.

18:01:53 The first thing that it does is it actually adopts into

18:02:00 the code our -- there are just some general language

18:02:03 changes that it adopts into our code the provisions for

18:02:05 driveways on local streets, because there are no

18:02:10 generally accepted technical statewide standards for --

18:02:12 standards for driveways on residential streets.

18:02:16 It adopts into the code something that was within the

18:02:19 technical manual and that is the brick street ordinance.

18:02:22 And I think we have dealt with the brick street ordinance

18:02:25 on very many occasions but interestingly, it was actually

18:02:30 housed within our technical manual of adopting it into

18:02:30 Chapter 22.

18:02:33 The provisions in the brick street ordinance are

18:02:37 identical as to what was within the technical standard I

18:02:39 just listed and moved them over with one exception, and

18:02:41 that's really a procedural exception.

18:02:44 As you know a lot of time you see these brick street

18:02:46 ordinance issues come associated with vacation

18:02:47 ordinances.

18:02:51 In order to impact a brick street, there is a public

18:02:54 hearing requirement, and what I -- what I did was drafted

18:02:58 a provision in there that says the brick street ordinance

18:03:01 request to impact the brick street would run -- be able

18:03:04 to run concur rent and with the same processes of

18:03:06 vacation ordinance so therefore we are not bringing

18:03:09 something to you, continuing it and actually run with the

18:03:10 -- with the vacation ordinance.

18:03:16 And the third provision, and this is 22-319 is actually a

18:03:17 new provision.

18:03:21 What your code used to provide for is an opportunity for

18:03:25 variances to technical standards with some Criterion and

18:03:30 those were administrative type of variances.

18:03:33 Without belaboring the point we would get into these

18:03:36 discussions within site plan development of PD type

18:03:36 discussions.

18:03:40 Can you waive a technical standard, can you not waive a

18:03:41 technical standard.

18:03:44 My opinion that you will never want to waive your basic

18:03:46 safety standard.

18:03:49 You always want to keep those intact for a variety of

18:03:51 different reasons, but what this does do is provide an

18:03:55 opportunity for the Transportation manager to conduct

18:03:58 upon request of a property owner that may want to do

18:04:01 something that is a little different than what, you know,

18:04:04 called out in a technical safety standard, an alternative

18:04:06 design exception process.

18:04:09 It is modeled directly how the Florida department of

18:04:12 Transportation handles the issue, what it will provide

18:04:15 for as an opportunity to make the request to the

18:04:18 Transportation manager to have -- you know, an -- a

18:04:22 conversation engineered to engineer allow that property

18:04:26 owner's engineer to provide documentation there may be an

18:04:30 alternative way to -- to design something that is just as

18:04:33 safe but is not in accordance with the -- with the safety

18:04:36 standard called out in the generally accepted manual.

18:04:39 What this is attempting to do is to provide for a

18:04:39 process.

18:04:42 It is a process that we undertake now, but it is really

18:04:46 more on an ad hoc basis and doesn't really have anything

18:04:48 associated with it for a process.

18:04:54 And a lot of times what it would devolve down to is no,

18:04:56 you need a waiver and do it this way.

18:04:59 The intent of this session is -- section is to provide

18:05:01 that opportunity to have the safety provisions either in

18:05:04 the technical manual or within code, if there are

18:05:06 technical safety standards, an opportunity for two

18:05:08 engineers to get together, have a conversation.

18:05:11 From an engineering perspective, figure out an

18:05:14 alternative way to handle a situation with the most

18:05:17 important issue being there is no compromise to safety

18:05:22 because that is the underlying requirement when we adopt

18:05:24 a technical manual to assure that if there is going to be

18:05:27 a design or some kind of construction within the city's

18:05:31 facilities, that they are done in a way that is safe.

18:05:34 That is in a nutshell.

18:05:37 We have had several conversations about this and sent

18:05:40 this out to everybody and has moved forward.

18:05:43 Melanie Calloway is here if you have direct technical

18:05:46 questions, but procedurally that is where we are.

18:05:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.

18:05:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Julia, thank you, last night I had a

18:05:57 choice of bamboo under my nails or reading the

18:05:58 Transportation standards.

18:06:00 I went with the bamboo -- no --

18:06:00 [ Laughter ]

18:06:08 -- the seriously though the -- the alternative I think is

18:06:08 good.

18:06:13 It is a little more flexibility for the -- for the

18:06:14 petitioner or the builder.

18:06:17 When we know they are doing that sort of thing, but you

18:06:18 alluded to this earlier.

18:06:24 We do hit that occasion periodically during a PD

18:06:27 evaluation or up here where we run into a little

18:06:29 Transportation glitch, and I am not saying we should sit

18:06:32 here and wrestle with that -- those kind of technical

18:06:39 issues with the Transportation engineer either ours or on

18:06:41 the fly like that, but what I am wondering about does

18:06:45 your ordinance modification address that circumstance?

18:06:48 Does it address the possibility that the request for a

18:06:52 Transportation exception might actually originate at

18:06:55 Council, you know, through -- through this -- through

18:06:59 this process, you know --

18:07:03 >> The intent of the session is that it is something that

18:07:05 is driven by a property owner applicant that is coming

18:07:08 forward saying, well, you know, I would like to do

18:07:11 something different than what is called out as the

18:07:12 technical safety standard.

18:07:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sometimes we say that we would like

18:07:18 them to do something different, and then the applicant

18:07:22 says, yes, but your Transportation staff says we can't.

18:07:26 And we say, well, we would like you to try to work with

18:07:27 them to do that or something like that.

18:07:30 But I just want to make sure that there is enough

18:07:35 flexibility in this language to -- you know, to include

18:07:37 that possibility as well.

18:07:40 And maybe it is just a little minor tweak that we can do

18:07:43 between first and second reading.

18:07:44 >>JULIA COLE: Sounds to me that is something that we can

18:07:46 provide for.

18:07:49 The intent is to allow this to occur and I understand

18:07:53 that, yes, it does happen within the context of the PD

18:07:54 where that question does come up.

18:07:57 And I had it -- when I had drafted it, it was my intent

18:08:01 to allow that to almost run with the PD if necessary

18:08:03 because may be if there is something that an applicant

18:08:06 wants to do, it does need to be recognized in the PD.

18:08:09 I don't think that is outside the scope of the intent of

18:08:10 what this is.

18:08:12 And may be tweaking the language to ensure that it is

18:08:15 something that both can run with the plan development if

18:08:16 that is the case.

18:08:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to send a message to

18:08:21 future councils with some little language in there that

18:08:26 this is an option that's in there.

18:08:31 But other than that, if you can tweak that up and propose

18:08:32 something at second reading.

18:08:35 >>JULIA COLE: I am happy to do that and given that I

18:08:38 wouldn't have to change the title and to change the

18:08:43 intent, I can go ahead and add some language and discuss

18:08:45 that with you at second reading.

18:08:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

18:08:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I am happy this is before us.

18:08:55 I will be happy to adopt it.

18:08:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.

18:09:02 >>MARY MULHERN: Recently we practically had people in

18:09:06 Ybor City laying down on the asphalt covered brick street

18:09:09 on 4th avenue when it was about to be covered and

18:09:11 emergency meeting of the exhibit of the crushed brick

18:09:13 came in.

18:09:17 And I am -- you know, I know we need to protect the brick

18:09:22 streets, but I am not comfortable with some of the

18:09:23 exemptions here.

18:09:26 So is that something we can work on between first and

18:09:27 second reading too?

18:09:29 >>JULIA COLE: I think that that -- I understand what you

18:09:32 are saying and there may be some discussion that needs to

18:09:35 occur as it relates to those exemptions, but the intent

18:09:38 was really just to pick up what we had and go ahead and

18:09:41 do something with it, and I do think something like that

18:09:43 would take further time and further consideration.

18:09:46 My recommendation would be is to allow this to move

18:09:50 forward in its current configuration because what I would

18:09:53 not want to do is readopt the technical manual without

18:09:56 anything related to brick streets and the brick street

18:09:57 ordinance.

18:10:00 So I would recommend if we want to revisit that, I would

18:10:02 want to have a little more conversation to understand

18:10:05 exactly what the issues were and I do think you would

18:10:07 need to hear from the Transportation manager as it

18:10:08 relates to that issue.

18:10:11 So if that is something you want to revisit the language

18:10:14 in the brick street ordinance either we can go ahead and

18:10:18 adopt this, and we certainly would have the right to

18:10:21 amend it later or recommend that we hold the whole thing.

18:10:24 Because if we adopt this technical manual in the current

18:10:28 state the way we have it in front of you would be losing

18:10:30 the brick street ordinance.

18:10:32 >>MARY MULHERN: I guess here is -- I would be

18:10:36 comfortable adopting this if we schedule either -- I can

18:10:38 work with you on this and possibly make some changes

18:10:40 before second reading.

18:10:48 Or if we actually schedule a day for public workshop to

18:10:50 discuss this.

18:10:55 Because I -- I think that the problem -- the big problems

18:11:01 I have seen that has come up, which is controversial but

18:11:07 from my -- it is possible that it is more economic --

18:11:10 economical rather than continually paving over with

18:11:15 modern kind of asphalt we have now.

18:11:20 And the assumption is that that's cheaper and safer,

18:11:23 which I think that there are a lot of other cities that

18:11:25 disagree with that.

18:11:27 >>JULIA COLE: I think that is probably a fairly

18:11:28 significant conversation.

18:11:29 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.

18:11:32 >>JULIA COLE: What I would recommend so that we don't --

18:11:34 I would prefer not to hold the talks -- because we have

18:11:37 been working to get this done and keeping the status quo

18:11:38 anyway.

18:11:42 If we can move forward the way it is and maybe you would

18:11:45 request to schedule a workshop.

18:11:48 I know your January workshop is pretty filled up and you

18:11:51 may want to consider February and in the meantime I can

18:11:53 meet with you to discuss some of the issues.

18:11:54 >>MARY MULHERN: That was the second question.

18:11:57 I don't know if somebody is here from Transportation.

18:12:00 >>JULIA COLE: Melanie Calloway is here.

18:12:02 >>MARY MULHERN: Or land use.

18:12:06 Somebody who knows what is coming up in the near future.

18:12:14 I guess it would be Transportation.

18:12:16 Here is my question.

18:12:19 If we have a workshop on this in February, are there --

18:12:24 is there work scheduled to cover reasphalt any streets in

18:12:29 historic districts that might have brick under them in.

18:12:31 >> Melanie Calloway, Transportation.

18:12:34 The Transportation division is not -- does not pave the

18:12:36 streets.

18:12:42 Urban -- the Director of public works does do that, type

18:12:42 of street maintenance.

18:12:46 We can get with him and see if he has any schedule to do

18:12:47 that.

18:12:49 >>MARY MULHERN: I will talk with him and if I can get

18:12:52 that information out of him and it looks like there are

18:12:56 some endangered asphalt-covered brick streets, I might

18:12:59 come back to you Julia and try to work on something

18:13:03 before second reading, otherwise -- I would like to move

18:13:06 to schedule this workshop maybe for February.

18:13:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second --

18:13:10 >>MARY MULHERN: No?

18:13:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My understanding we have someone from

18:13:17 S.W.F.W.M.D. Here and you have asked that --

18:13:21 >> The issue of reclaimed water.

18:13:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why don't we schedule a special

18:13:25 discussion meeting even in January.

18:13:27 >>MARY MULHERN: That's fine because there are certain

18:13:29 people who care about it and a lot of other people not so

18:13:33 interested.

18:13:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do you have a calendar?

18:13:39 Mull I don't have a calendar, sorry.

18:13:49 I don't know -- maybe we do in the back of our agenda.

18:14:02 >>MARY MULHERN: January?

18:14:10 The special discussion meeting on a -- on a -- it

18:14:17 doesn't have to be on a -- CRA -- yeah, we have got

18:14:18 evening too.

18:14:25 I guess if we want staff present we could have it on the

18:14:28 14th of January, there is an evening session that day, so

18:14:30 that's not so great.

18:14:34 But when you go to the 21st, we have public hearings in

18:14:36 the afternoon.

18:14:38 There is never going to be a good day.

18:14:40 So how about the 14th.

18:14:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

18:14:47 >>MARY MULHERN: At 1:30.

18:14:51 A discussion meeting to discuss some changes to this

18:14:52 brick street ordinance.

18:14:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think we should specifically

18:14:57 request not only is urban Lee there but Dennis Fernandez

18:15:03 is there from Preservation, because his predecessor De La

18:15:07 Costa did a lot of research on brick streets and other

18:15:07 cities.

18:15:08 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.

18:15:12 I am going to request -- I am going to invite barrio

18:15:16 Latino people and anyone -- mostly the Ybor people who

18:15:18 have been concerned about it.

18:15:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I am going to tell you now I am not

18:15:25 going to support it.

18:15:26 >> Okay.

18:15:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Hyde Park too.

18:15:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A motion and moved and seconded for the

18:15:34 14th at what time.

18:15:36 >>MARY MULHERN: 1:30.

18:15:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Out of deference to the Chair, you

18:15:41 are not supporting the scheduling or the -- or the -- I

18:15:43 know you are in favor of brick streets.

18:15:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I just think -- I have issue with

18:15:47 special discussion now.

18:15:50 I got major issues.

18:15:54 >>MARY MULHERN: The problem is we can't fit the

18:15:55 workshop.

18:15:57 Our schedule is just crammed.

18:16:02 I don't know what else to do unless --

18:16:04 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to pass it tonight and

18:16:08 incorporate it later?

18:16:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: For first reading tonight.

18:16:12 >>JULIA COLE: But the issue that Miss Mulhern has raised

18:16:15 is something that I think is a fairly significant

18:16:17 question isn't something that I can change between first

18:16:18 and second reading.

18:16:21 It really does require, I think, some more in-depth

18:16:23 discussion.

18:16:25 So my concern about holding off on the brick street

18:16:28 ordinance is we would really have to table the entire

18:16:32 thing because I wouldn't want to adopt the Transportation

18:16:33 technical manual without brick street ordinance because

18:16:37 then there would be nothing relating to that issue.

18:16:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Not delaying anything by holding this

18:16:40 back?

18:16:42 >>MARY MULHERN: We are not holding it back.

18:16:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We are not holding it back.

18:16:46 >>GWEN MILLER: She said we need to do first reading

18:16:47 tonight.

18:16:50 >>MARY MULHERN: I am not saying not to adopt it, I am

18:16:53 saying we need further discussions for changes.

18:16:56 And unless we can -- we can do it February -- February

18:16:57 workshop.

18:16:58 We have reclaimed water.

18:17:00 I don't know if that's going to be that --

18:17:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Why can't we do it in March.

18:17:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me, I think this is something

18:17:08 that has a very specialized group of people who are

18:17:08 interested.

18:17:11 We should have it for the people who are interested in

18:17:12 January.

18:17:12 Get going on it.

18:17:15 It is going to take some work, and bring it back after it

18:17:18 has had some work for the whole of council.

18:17:22 We know that everybody can't come all day on Thursday.

18:17:24 So it is for the people who are particularly interested.

18:17:27 >>MARY MULHERN: You want to call the question.

18:17:28 >> Call the question.

18:17:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we need to read the ordinance for

18:17:35 first reading and then make a motion to do that?

18:17:39 >> My suggestion -- my suggestion is that if you wish to

18:17:42 -- if you wish to -- if there is a motion on the floor, a

18:17:46 motion and a second that was on the floor right now, you

18:17:48 could address that and go to the first reading of this

18:17:49 ordinance.

18:17:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion on the floor is to have a

18:17:53 special discussion on the 14th.

18:17:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.

18:17:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's the motion.

18:17:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.

18:17:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

18:18:01 All in favor signify by saying aye.

18:18:02 Opposes.

18:18:07 Nay.

18:18:11 >> Again the 14th of January at 1:30 in the afternoon.

18:18:13 >>MARY MULHERN: Then I will move adoption of the

18:18:16 ordinance.

18:18:18 Saul we haven't heard --

18:18:19 >>JULIA COLE: Julia Cole.

18:18:22 This is not a public hearing under first reading;

18:18:24 however, typically you would have public comment.

18:18:27 You don't have public comment at your night meeting, and

18:18:31 I know he is here to speak to this item and I would

18:18:34 recommend -- because we have spoken at public comment

18:18:38 that he has an opportunity to put his comments on the

18:18:38 record.

18:18:41 >> Thank you, Spencer Kass.

18:18:41 This is very quick.

18:18:43 We discussed this with legal.

18:18:44 I am with Transportation.

18:18:46 We are fine with what they did.

18:18:47 It was a lot of hard work.

18:18:51 All we are asking for what they edit in is alternative

18:18:54 materials, Transportation that the other departments can

18:18:55 live with.

18:18:57 Right now it is very difficult in the city if you want to

18:19:01 use an alternative material to do a parking lot or

18:19:01 something else.

18:19:04 Getting all the departments to agree is difficult.

18:19:06 I believe legal has a way of working that out that they

18:19:09 can live with and that Transportation can live with.

18:19:12 I will let Julia give you the details, but they need

18:19:15 instruction from you to do that and that is what we

18:19:17 respectfully request.

18:19:20 >>MARY MULHERN: You are requesting a change?

18:19:21 Saul having alternative --

18:19:24 >>JULIA COLE: The way this is drafted is really intended

18:19:28 to be more for a design issue and what Mr. Kass is saying

18:19:32 that it should cover some kind of alternative materials.

18:19:35 And I am comfortable adding some language into -- to that

18:19:36 extent.

18:19:39 And I don't understand Transportation would have an issue

18:19:39 to that.

18:19:41 >>MARY MULHERN: So you would do that --

18:19:43 >>JULIA COLE: I would do that between first and second

18:19:46 reading and since it is on the record.

18:19:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If that is --

18:19:52 >> If that is council's wish and have that as part of

18:19:54 your motion in between first and second reading.

18:19:58 >>MARY MULHERN: I will move to adopt the ordinance --

18:20:01 >> If we can, Mr. Chairman, forgive me.

18:20:04 Mr. Kass is the only person that spoke but put on the

18:20:08 record anyone else who wishes to speak.

18:20:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else wish to speak and address

18:20:13 council on this issue, item 1?

18:20:15 >> I see nobody, Mr. Chairman.

18:20:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I will move for adoption on first

18:20:23 reading with the understanding that there will be changes

18:20:28 with additional materials before second reading.

18:20:29 >> That would be?

18:20:32 You have to read -- you have to read it by title.

18:20:38 It will be the first one and then you are going to have

18:20:43 to read the second one separately.

18:20:46 >>MARY MULHERN: Of I move an ordinance on first reading

18:20:49 public hearing regarding the draft Transportation

18:20:51 Technical Manual of Minimum Standards and associated

18:20:55 amendments to Chapter 22, City of Tampa code.

18:20:58 Original motion -- oh, sorry, I read the wrong thing.

18:20:59 I'm very sorry.

18:21:01 Guilt really fast.

18:21:03 Ordinance presented for first reading moved for adoption

18:21:06 first reading and consideration an ordinance of the City

18:21:10 of Tampa, Florida, amending Chapter 22 Code of Ordinances

18:21:14 by adopting the 2009 edition of the Transportation

18:21:17 division technical Manuel providing for a repeal of

18:21:23 section 17.5-17 to and section 25-156, City of Tampa Code

18:21:26 of Ordinances and ordinances and conflicts providing for

18:21:26 severability.

18:21:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

18:21:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All those in favor signify by saying

18:21:36 aye.

18:21:42 >> Motion carries with Caetano and Miranda being absent.

18:21:46 Second reading January 10 at 9:30.

18:21:48 I wanted to make sure for the record that your motion

18:21:52 includes a direction for legal to insert language

18:21:54 regarding alternative materials.

18:21:56 >>MARY MULHERN: With the addition of language to address

18:22:01 allowing alternative materials

18:22:06 I move an ordinance being presented for first reading

18:22:08 consideration an ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida,

18:22:12 making comprehensive revisions to Chapter 22, streets and

18:22:14 sidewalks for the City of Tampa Code of Ordinances,

18:22:24 repealing section 22-304 and 22-305 in their entirely.

18:22:26 Functional classifications of roadways, creating Section

18:22:30 22-305, vitrified brick street standards, amending

18:22:36 Section 22-314, driveways location, design and

18:22:37 construction standards.

18:22:41 Repealing Section 22-319 in its entirety.

18:22:45 Creating Section 22-319, alternative design exception

18:22:50 providing for severability, providing for repeal of all

18:22:53 ordinances in conflict providing an effective date.

18:22:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

18:22:59 Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

18:23:05 >> Motion carries with Caetano and Miranda being absent.

18:23:08 Second reading January 10 at 9:30 A.M.

18:23:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If you were here this evening to address

18:23:15 council on any item on agenda from -- as we move forward

18:23:17 you need to be sworn in at this time.

18:23:19 Will you stand and raise your right hand.

18:23:21 If you are going to be speaking at all tonight to

18:23:24 council.

18:23:27 Please stand to be sworn in.

18:23:27 [Oath Adminstered by Clerk]

18:23:34 >> I do.

18:23:38 >>THE CLERK: Thank you.

18:23:40 >> Mr. Chairman, I believe there are items available for

18:23:42 inspection in City Council's office that I would like to

18:23:45 have received and filed by motion at this time.

18:23:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to receive and filed.

18:23:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

18:23:51 All in favor signify by saying aye.

18:23:54 Opposed.

18:23:57 >> Those who are speaking a sign-in sheet outside.

18:24:00 If you can be reminded to sign the sign-in sheet if you

18:24:02 intend to speak.

18:24:04 Thank you.

18:24:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We kind of need to clean up the agenda a

18:24:09 bit.

18:24:13 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Good evening, council, Abbye Feeley,

18:24:15 Land Development Coordination.

18:24:18 Item number 2 I have received in the E-Mail requesting a

18:24:22 continuance of that item to January 14 at 6 p.m. this was

18:24:25 in cooperation with staff as the site plan was not ready

18:24:27 to move forward this evening.

18:24:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open item number 2.

18:24:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

18:24:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.

18:24:37 Anyone here in opposition to the continuance of item

18:24:37 number 2.

18:24:39 Anyone want to speak?

18:24:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to continue to January 14, 2010.

18:24:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.

18:24:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I want to give a shout out to the

18:24:51 youth over there on the side.

18:24:51 [Applause]

18:24:59 I think -- I think they were here for that item too, so

18:25:02 we apologize for that continuance, I guess.

18:25:05 But anyways, nice for you to come and watch your

18:25:08 government in action.

18:25:09 Stick around.

18:25:11 >> Mr. Chairman if we can have that date and time again

18:25:12 and vote on that.

18:25:14 >>GWEN MILLER: January 14.

18:25:15 >> At 6 p.m.?

18:25:16 >>GWEN MILLER: 6 p.m.

18:25:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It has been moved and seconded.

18:25:22 All those in favor signify by saying aye.

18:25:26 Opposed.

18:25:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open item 3 and 4.

18:25:30 >> Second.

18:25:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What I would like to do is take up item

18:25:38 3 and item 6 -- item 5, get those out of the way and take

18:25:40 item 4.

18:25:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Open 3 and 5.

18:25:44 Second.

18:25:46 All in favor say aye.

18:25:50 Opposes.

18:25:54 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Council, Abbye Feeley, Land Development

18:25:55 Coordination.

18:26:03 The first item, item number 3, V09-420, located at 1803

18:26:08 east Shadowlawn Avenue and 1802 east McBerry Street.

18:26:12 The request for special use place of religious assembly.

18:26:17 This is an existing church that is seeking --

18:26:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was wrong on that.

18:26:20 This is the one they are here for.

18:26:20 Good.

18:26:23 >>ABBYE FEELEY: An existing church that is seeking to do

18:26:24 an expansion.

18:26:27 Let me go through quickly the waivers that are associated

18:26:29 with this request.

18:26:33 The first is to reduce the 10-foot sign setback from 10

18:26:37 to 0 for the existing sign on shadowlawn.

18:26:40 I will address that a little bit when I go into my

18:26:41 presentation.

18:26:43 Second one is a recommendation of the required buffer on

18:26:46 the east side of the property from 10 feet to 4 feet.

18:26:48 The third is to reduce the required parking from 45

18:26:52 spaces to 34 spaces which is a 24% reduction.

18:26:55 The fourth is to allow for 100% grass parking.

18:26:58 The fifth is to allow for the maneuvering of the solid

18:27:00 waste vehicle within the right-of-way.

18:27:03 You can probably see that on your site plan and I will

18:27:04 address that briefly.

18:27:07 The sixth is to reduce the required front yard setback

18:27:09 from 25 feet to 19.8 feet.

18:27:13 The 7th is to reduce the west yard from 40 feet to 15

18:27:14 feet.

18:27:17 The 8th is to reduce the east yard from 40 feet to 12.9

18:27:18 feet.

18:27:21 And the last one is to allow access to a local street

18:27:25 which is bordered by three local streets, shadowlawn,

18:27:34 McBerry and 18th.

18:27:40 I will go ahead and show you the zoning atlas.

18:27:43 18th on the west, 19th on the east.

18:27:46 McBerry on the South, Shadowlawn on the north.

18:27:49 The subject property is shown here in green.

18:27:52 As I did mention, it is an existing church at the present

18:27:57 time.

18:27:59 Here is the aerial view.

18:28:06 There is an existing building that fronts shadowlawn and

18:28:08 18th and a smaller building on McBerry.

18:28:13 The addition is going to be placed on the far west

18:28:14 shadowlawn.

18:28:16 Single-family.

18:28:19 This is located in the East Tampa mixed use overlay

18:28:22 district and it has been reviewed and reviewed by Mike

18:28:24 Callahan, the urban design coordinator.

18:28:26 Here is a front view.

18:28:29 This is the entrance on shadowlawn.

18:28:36 This is vacant area that is on the east side.

18:28:39 This is going to be parking which is shown on the site

18:28:41 plans that I provided you.

18:28:43 This is also the area on shadowlawn.

18:28:47 This is where that addition is going to come out there in

18:28:50 the front.

18:28:55 This is looking from 18th to ward, a that smaller

18:28:59 building that I showed you at McBerry and 18th.

18:29:03 And this is actually a view from McBerry.

18:29:07 The single-family immediate adjacent on McBerry.

18:29:15 As I mentioned there is single family that surrounds the

18:29:16 property on all sides.

18:29:18 This is on shadow lawn.

18:29:23 This is the intersection of southwest corner of 18th and

18:29:24 McBerry.

18:29:27 So this is immediately west of the main sanctuary.

18:29:32 This is the Northwest corner of that intersection.

18:29:35 This is the northeast corner of that intersection.

18:29:40 This is immediately north of the site.

18:29:45 They are requesting this evening a 816-square-feet

18:29:47 addition to the existing church.

18:29:50 The building setbacks as I mentioned in the waivers, 20

18:29:57 foot 4 feet north, 15.9 feet west, 12.9 feet east.

18:30:00 The vehicular access will be on shadowlawn and also on

18:30:02 McBerry and also on north 18th.

18:30:07 The total of 45 spaces are required and 34 are being

18:30:08 provided.

18:30:10 There is a waiver for the deficit.

18:30:13 Staff found this inconsistent.

18:30:18 We had two minor modifications.

18:30:21 The site plan refers to signage under chapter 20.05 which

18:30:25 is not a chapter and we need them to change that to be

18:30:26 20.5.

18:30:30 And the second is to please provide the actual setbacks

18:30:32 on the data portion of the site plan.

18:30:36 There is a comment in your staff report from solid waste

18:30:39 concerning the maneuvering of the solid waste vehicle

18:30:42 related to the current location of the dumpster.

18:30:44 You can see the way -- the solid waste actually comes

18:30:45 down 18th.

18:30:48 If you look on your site plan and crosses oncoming

18:30:50 traffic in order to service the current location.

18:30:55 So they did want to raise that as -- as a safety issue.

18:30:57 And they are here to speak to that if necessary, and the

18:31:00 last is that parks and recreation would like a note that

18:31:03 they will review and approve the development at the time

18:31:04 of permitting.

18:31:07 You will find additional analysis on pages 3 and 4 of

18:31:08 your staff report.

18:31:11 Changes are made in between first and second reading.

18:31:15 Staff would find this consistent.

18:31:18 And I am available for any questions.

18:31:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Planning Commission.

18:31:27 >> Good evening, Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.

18:31:27 I have been sworn in.

18:31:31 I would like to add some additional comments to Miss

18:31:34 Feeley's comments on a comprehensive plan aspect.

18:31:36 The site is in the East Tampa district.

18:31:40 Within the East Tampa CRA which is the largest CRA for

18:31:42 the City of Tampa.

18:31:46 As you can see the predominant land use is residential 10

18:31:51 which does allow this type of community serving use ALS

18:31:55 along with day-care center and also tells you consistent

18:31:57 with the plan and a community serving use that is

18:32:01 basically part of the fabric for the community and has

18:32:02 been for a long period of time.

18:32:03 The Planning Commission finds the proposed request

18:32:05 consistent with the comprehensive plan.

18:32:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions by council?

18:32:13 Petitioner.

18:32:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Briefly.

18:32:21 >> Good evening, councilmembers, Linda Pearson, Diaz

18:32:26 Pearson & Associates, 1200 West Platt street, west Tampa.

18:32:30 I have a speakers waiver form that I would like to submit

18:32:30 --

18:32:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You may not need that.

18:32:34 Let's --

18:32:37 >> Well, I will put it in the record in case we do.

18:32:39 >> Is that for you?

18:32:41 >> For me to just give me a couple more minutes to

18:32:43 discuss one issue we've got.

18:32:45 And also I have got some petitions in support that I

18:32:50 would like to submit to the Clerk and to the council.

18:32:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay --

18:32:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Linda --

18:33:04 >> We have a question.

18:33:08 First of all, I would like to introduce some of those who

18:33:12 are here month addition to the pathfinders that you just

18:33:15 mentioned, their youth program, pastor cross is here

18:33:19 along with building committee members, church members,

18:33:24 neighbors, supporters and their architect.

18:33:27 If I can ask them to stand so you can see which ones are

18:33:29 here tonight, in support by the way.

18:33:34 And if you are standing, you can just wave.

18:33:36 Councilmembers, just to give you a little bit of

18:33:38 background on a couple of these issues.

18:33:41 This church was constructed in 1953.

18:33:44 It has been in continuous use --

18:33:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Miss Pearson, I am trying to help you.

18:33:51 >> Yes, sir, I know, but I've got a question.

18:33:53 I appreciate it and I need your help too.

18:33:56 We reviewed the staff report.

18:34:00 We have been working very diligently with your staff, and

18:34:05 I want to compliment them on their health and diligence

18:34:13 in assisting us there is one issue that is causing a

18:34:17 little bit of heartburn with the church membership.

18:34:21 And they have been praying about it as -- as have I for

18:34:25 your guidance and for your leadership on it.

18:34:28 The sign setback we don't have a problem with.

18:34:30 Our new signage will meet code.

18:34:34 Our buffer waivers are just on one side relatively to the

18:34:35 4-foot distance.

18:34:38 The building setbacks are going to remain the same.

18:34:41 The new addition will not exceed into those front

18:34:44 setbacks at all.

18:34:46 The only issue that we have that is causing them

18:34:49 heartburn is the fact with the tree.

18:34:54 There is a 60-inch tree that parks and recreation has

18:34:57 determined to be an unsafe situation that they have asked

18:35:02 us to remove, and they have been gracious enough to not

18:35:08 require us to replace it at -- at an inch-per-inch basis.

18:35:13 It is an oak that is hazardous can't the southwest corner

18:35:16 of the site, 60 inches here.

18:35:18 That is not the issue either.

18:35:19 [Laughter]

18:35:22 I am just telling you, staff is working with us, and we

18:35:23 are working with them.

18:35:24 But here is the problem, sir.

18:35:30 There is a 37-inch oak here that has -- and in staff's

18:35:32 opinion has been overpruned.

18:35:38 Overpruned because they showed up for church a few

18:35:42 sabbath back and the limbs have collapsed into the yard

18:35:44 so the major limbs were cut.

18:35:47 Those had to be replaced on inch-per-inch basis.

18:35:50 This property is 20,000 square feet.

18:35:57 And staff wants us to put in 53 two-inch trees.

18:36:02 I have talked with Mary today again about it, but I think

18:36:04 she is going by code.

18:36:06 We respect that.

18:36:11 We don't want to not put in trees, but we are trying to

18:36:14 get guidance from you on how we can put in a reasonable

18:36:16 amount of trees.

18:36:18 We could certainly pay into a tree fund, but right now

18:36:21 trees are at a cost that we can buy trees less than we

18:36:25 can pay into your fund at $300 per tree.

18:36:29 So we are asking for your direction or your responses to

18:36:30 us.

18:36:34 We are happy to do trees, but not 53.

18:36:39 That -- that is our issue.

18:36:42 Mr. Chairman, this -- this community provides --

18:36:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How many trees can you afford to put in?

18:36:49 >> Well, we would like to not to have to put in the 18.

18:36:53 We would like a reduction of 18 -- so we believe 35 would

18:36:54 be more in keeping.

18:36:59 I mean that's plenty on a half-acre lot, I believe.

18:37:01 >> I agree with you on that.

18:37:05 >> If you would like it to be less, we certainly could do

18:37:05 less.

18:37:10 >>JULIA COLE: Julia Cole of legal department.

18:37:12 This issue was not brought to the attention of staff.

18:37:15 Certainly was not brought to my attention.

18:37:20 I can opine to what you can legally and not legally do.

18:37:23 It is not a rezoning so you are limited on the types of

18:37:25 waivers you can grant.

18:37:27 I can't guide you without more information.

18:37:29 I don't know if what you want to do is try to go ahead

18:37:32 and finish up this hearing and hold the vote on it so I

18:37:35 can go look at the code and discuss it with staff --

18:37:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Couldn't council just do -- couldn't

18:37:40 we waive some of the trees.

18:37:42 >> No under a special use.

18:37:43 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development.

18:37:49 Under a special use you cannot waive chapter 13.

18:37:50 We had this happen with many churches or places of

18:37:52 religious assembly.

18:37:55 You convert your special use into a PD in order to ask

18:37:56 for those waivers.

18:37:59 This was not brought to my attention prior to the hearing

18:38:01 today or I would be more than happy to talk to Miss

18:38:04 Pearson about doing that and what we would have needed to

18:38:10 do to accommodate that.

18:38:16 I apologize but you cannot get waivers to 13.

18:38:19 >> I am well aware of that, we have talked to staff about

18:38:22 that, we are trying to determine if there is some type of

18:38:27 administrative procedure you would be supportive of even

18:38:31 though you can't do it that we can take to a higher body.

18:38:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well --

18:38:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What staff did you talk to?

18:38:41 >> Mary --

18:38:44 >>ABBYE FEELEY: You can get administrative waiver for

18:38:45 chapter 13 so 10%.

18:38:49 Under 53 trees that would only be five trees.

18:38:52 I am not sure that is what Miss Pearson is looking for.

18:38:56 She is looking for a substantial amount of 53, I would

18:39:00 recommend convert it to PD and come back to you and ask

18:39:03 for that waiver if she God feedback you might be

18:39:05 conducive for that.

18:39:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.

18:39:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What I don't understand is the -- I

18:39:15 thought the church -- I thought -- the yellow that is up

18:39:17 there right now, Linda.

18:39:19 >> That is the addition, sir.

18:39:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The addition onto the church.

18:39:31 But is the construction of the addition specifically

18:39:34 impacting that tree?

18:39:34 >> No.

18:39:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So the only reason the tree has come

18:39:40 up is -- well not only that, because they trimmed it and

18:39:43 because they have come in to look for a permit that

18:39:47 triggers some type of site review, but what I am trying

18:39:53 to figure out, Julia, miss Cole -- what I am trying to

18:39:57 figure out is if there is no direct relationship between

18:40:01 the construction that they are doing and the tree, then

18:40:04 why don't they just -- why don't we just eliminate that

18:40:10 issue if the city wants to site them for the removal --

18:40:14 the alleged removal of the limbs and then you guys can do

18:40:17 that through the code enforcement process as a separate

18:40:17 thing.

18:40:20 But I don't know why it would even need to be addressed

18:40:22 on this site plan.

18:40:23 And then we can proceed forward.

18:40:27 Not that I am advocating hurting trees.

18:40:30 I want to make that abundantly clear to everybody, but

18:40:33 doesn't appear that that grand tree issue has any

18:40:34 relationship to this construction.

18:40:36 >>JULIA COLE: Mr. Dingfelder, I was actually thinking

18:40:38 the same thing through this process.

18:40:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Great minds.

18:40:45 >>JULIA COLE: This apparently is an existing church

18:40:49 prior to us requiring a special use for churches, so it

18:40:52 would be considered a conforming use.

18:40:54 Traditionally what has happened through this process that

18:40:59 everything has been dealt with on these site plans, but I

18:41:02 think there is a fair analysis that says that is really a

18:41:04 separate issue.

18:41:06 But unfortunately until I have a chance to really look at

18:41:09 that -- I would hate to opine something and then be

18:41:11 wrong.

18:41:14 With this -- given this has just came up I would

18:41:16 recommend that we continue it if we want to do something

18:41:18 different so we can deal with that issue.

18:41:20 I really don't -- if you want to go ahead and hear it on

18:41:23 first reading and way to deal with it between first and

18:41:26 second reading we can do it that way, otherwise I am not

18:41:28 in a position to opine about this.

18:41:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we should probably do that

18:41:32 and to come back later and you say we have to start over

18:41:35 with first reading again then we would have to start over

18:41:36 with first reading again.

18:41:39 To try to move this forward -- we don't know if there is

18:41:40 any opposition.

18:41:43 There may be some opposition --

18:41:44 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a question.

18:41:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The only issue?

18:41:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Cutting the limbs off the tree.

18:41:51 Is the tree dying?

18:41:52 >> It is not dead.

18:41:53 [Laughter]

18:41:55 There are green leaves at the top of it.

18:41:58 It has been pruned because the tree limbs along the

18:41:59 bottom --

18:42:01 >>GWEN MILLER: So it would have survived?

18:42:04 >> Well, we are of the opinion -- we would like to try to

18:42:05 save it.

18:42:08 I talked -- I called Mary today to see if there might be

18:42:16 some type of way that an arborist could approve a deep

18:42:20 fertilizer and rejuvenate it as long as possible.

18:42:21 It is not in the way of any construction that we are

18:42:24 doing, but it is an issue that they felt -- it is her

18:42:27 belief for me, and I don't want to speak for her but this

18:42:32 is what she said to me that it has been overpruned and

18:42:33 expected removal.

18:42:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Where would you put 53 trees.

18:42:40 >> Well, that is our problem, miss Miller.

18:42:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, at this point, at this point, the

18:42:49 tree is irrelevant to this hearing and I like oak trees,

18:42:52 okay, but right now it is irrelevant until we hear from

18:42:53 the attorney.

18:42:56 So what I would like to do is find out is there anyone

18:43:00 here in opposition to this --

18:43:02 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to speak --

18:43:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone in opposition?

18:43:08 >> We had a neighborhood meeting as well just so you

18:43:09 know.

18:43:12 Everybody is happy I think in the community.

18:43:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Now anyone just have a burning desire to

18:43:16 speak us to on this issue?

18:43:19 You don't have to --

18:43:21 >> I do.

18:43:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Excluding you.

18:43:23 We want to hear for the public.

18:43:25 We open it up for the public.

18:43:26 Okay, now --

18:43:28 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to mention I brought up

18:43:32 revising our tree code today earlier because these sorts

18:43:34 of things come up fairly option, so I think we do -- this

18:43:37 is a good example for everyone that we need to look at

18:43:40 our tree code if things like this come up when we need

18:43:41 rezonings.

18:43:44 And then I just had a question for you.

18:43:47 Is the tree that was pruned, is that a live oak or a

18:43:53 laurel oak?

18:44:16 >> It is -- I believe it is a laurel, but -- is it

18:44:17 laurel?

18:44:18 Laurel.

18:44:19 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.

18:44:22 That is one of the reasons we need to look at the tree

18:44:24 code, because those are different.

18:44:27 And laurel oaks limbs are falling off all the time.

18:44:30 I can tell you because I had them falling on my house and

18:44:30 my car.

18:44:32 So -- we will be looking at this.

18:44:35 >> I want you to understand in no way any criticism or

18:44:37 difficulty with staff.

18:44:40 They have worked very hard to work with us.

18:44:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close --

18:44:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well let me -- Julia, so your

18:44:50 recommendation is that we go ahead with this and then

18:44:53 that between first and second reading, you will address

18:44:54 this other issue, right?

18:44:55 >>JULIA COLE: Yes.

18:44:58 I think what needs to happen is you could go ahead, move

18:45:01 this on first reading with the change sheet and just to

18:45:03 leave this status quo.

18:45:05 I will investigate the particular issue and opine to you

18:45:09 at second reading whether or not -- what we have to do to

18:45:12 address this as well.

18:45:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder?

18:45:15 Okay.

18:45:17 Moved and seconded that we close.

18:45:20 All in favor signify by saying aye.

18:45:22 Opposed.

18:45:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am confident with all that praying,

18:45:26 the tree is going to live.

18:45:27 [Laughter]

18:45:34 No, I'll move this ordinance for first reading with the

18:45:38 staff conditions that were noted and agreed to by -- by

18:45:39 Miss Pearson.

18:45:41 Yes, ma'am.

18:45:44 >> They actually are on your agenda on parks and

18:45:45 recreation note.

18:45:46 That needs to be added.

18:45:48 I typed that in there for you.

18:45:51 >> If I can -- if I can, I am sorry to interrupt, Mr.

18:45:52 Chairman.

18:45:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, sir.

18:45:55 >> I may be speculating, but I have some strange

18:45:58 suspicion that note relating to Parks and Recreation

18:46:02 normally does not appear on the site plan, and this

18:46:06 request to be added might be a way that the Park and Rec

18:46:10 Department is attempting to address this tree issue and

18:46:14 may be the detriment ultimately to the petitioner.

18:46:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was going to exclude it.

18:46:19 >> I asked Miss Cole whether it be placed -- I asked Miss

18:46:21 Cole whether it would be appropriate to have it placed

18:46:22 now.

18:46:26 Could it be removed at second reading and she indicated

18:46:29 it would be appropriate for Council to be able to remove

18:46:32 that note if council so chose.

18:46:36 >>JULIA COLE: Julia Cole, Legal Department.

18:46:40 I would rather have it placed on the site plan, and if I

18:46:44 feel legally that is an inappropriate note given the

18:46:46 conversation we had today and I looked at the code, then

18:46:48 legally I can make that clear on the record and I am

18:46:51 comfortable that I can do that.

18:46:54 If I don't put it on there and then you would absolutely

18:46:55 have to take it back to first reading.

18:46:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just make sure you remind us at

18:47:00 second reading to address it.

18:47:05 So I will move the ordinance as follows, including modify

18:47:10 waiver number 1 and note number 5 chapter 20.5 instead of

18:47:14 20.05 to provide the actual building setbacks and

18:47:16 development standards as part of the site plan and also

18:47:22 that the Park and Rec Department have final authority to

18:47:26 review the plan at site -- at the plan review.

18:47:28 I think is the language.

18:47:29 Okay.

18:47:32 And -- the ordinance will read as follows, an ordinance

18:47:35 approving a Special Use Permit S-2 approving place of

18:47:40 religious assembly in a RS-60 single-family zoning

18:47:46 district 18 to 1, 1803 east shadowlawn avenue and 18 to

18:47:49 2 E. McBerry Street provided an effective date.

18:47:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So moved and seconded.

18:47:57 Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

18:47:59 Moved and seconded.

18:48:01 All in favor say aye.

18:48:07 >> Motion carries with Caetano and Miranda being absent.

18:48:12 Second reading.

18:48:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

18:48:27 >> We were moving to item 5.

18:48:31 Item 5 on your agenda -- council,

18:48:34 >>ABBYE FEELEY, Land Development Coordination is located

18:48:39 at 240 2 West State Street.

18:48:43 The request is from RO-1, business professional office to

18:48:48 PD, medical and business professional office.

18:48:50 There are four waivers associated with the request this

18:48:51 evening.

18:48:55 One is to reduce the required buffer along the west from

18:49:00 15 feet with a 6-foot masonry wall to 9 foot with a

18:49:02 six-foot masonry wall.

18:49:10 To reduce required places from 30 spaces to 20 places.

18:49:14 And access for a nonresidential parking lot to access a

18:49:18 local street, state street, and the last it so reduce the

18:49:20 required sidewalk from 6 foot to 5 feet for the existing

18:49:25 conditions along Armenia Avenue.

18:49:28 They are requesting to construct a 5,000-square-foot

18:49:29 medical office building.

18:49:33 It is located within the west Tampa overlay district and

18:49:37 has been reviewed and approved by Mike Callahan, urban

18:49:38 design coordinator.

18:49:46 The proposed building setbacks are as follows: 1.1-foot

18:49:50 on the South, 8 foot 6 inches on the north, 45 feet on

18:49:53 the west and 9 feet on the east, the maximum building

18:50:01 height is 45 feet two inches.

18:50:15 The current RO-1 that is on this piece of property is for

18:50:21 a 4400-square-foot business professional office.

18:50:26 This is an increase of 600 square feet and the shift from

18:50:29 business professional to medical as well as retaining

18:50:30 business professional.

18:50:32 The site here is shown in green.

18:50:34 The RO-1.

18:50:38 There is RO to the South which is an office and RO to the

18:50:41 north which is an office.

18:50:46 CI zoning immediately across Armenia, armory to the

18:50:46 South.

18:50:50 Armenia is here to the east.

18:50:51 State to the north.

18:50:53 Cypress just a block north.

18:51:00 And Lemon street to the South.

18:51:07 An aerial of the property.

18:51:15 Shown here in yellow.

18:51:18 The site is pretty clear right now.

18:51:23 This is a site view looking South from state.

18:51:28 This is also from State looking at the subject property.

18:51:32 This to the west of the subject property.

18:51:36 This is also a shot west.

18:51:39 This is law office to the north.

18:51:41 This is the subject property in the background.

18:51:45 So this is off Armenia looking South.

18:51:48 This is standing on the subject site looking north.

18:51:54 The parking -- parking here.

18:51:59 For another small office that is located on State.

18:52:03 This is the office relation type office.

18:52:06 The other RO to the South.

18:52:08 Parking off of Armenia.

18:52:11 The park.

18:52:13 Northeast corner.

18:52:15 This may look familiar to you.

18:52:18 This is on Armenia.

18:52:20 The office equipment store.

18:52:24 So there is a mix of uses around there.

18:52:30 Predominantly office type uses.

18:52:37 Staff did find the in consistent predominantly for

18:52:38 technical issues.

18:52:41 Page 2 of the staff report, minor modifications required

18:52:44 by Land Development Coordination in between first and

18:52:44 second readings.

18:52:47 If you will look on page 3 of the staff report,

18:52:51 Transportation is finding the request inconsistent based

18:52:54 on the request for a waiver of the parking.

18:52:58 You will see that under bullet one, that the reduction

18:53:02 from 30 spaces to 24 spaces, they are objecting to that.

18:53:04 And I believe they are here to speak to that objection

18:53:07 this evening.

18:53:13 the second objection relating to third and fourth were

18:53:15 comments related to the way waivers were worded.

18:53:17 I have worked with the petitioner.

18:53:20 They submitted prior to the hearing showing me that

18:53:22 technical modifications were made.

18:53:24 They changed to 10-foot.

18:53:25 Everything looks good there.

18:53:28 So if all of those changes are made between first and

18:53:30 second reading it would be fine with the exception of

18:53:32 that Transportation objection related to the reduction in

18:53:34 the required parking.

18:53:36 Staff is available for any questions.

18:53:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

18:53:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

18:53:42 I have a question about how you arrived at your decision.

18:53:45 When I looked at -- when I was looking at the land use

18:53:50 map, and basically the professional offices have been the

18:53:54 conversion of single-family homes into one-story

18:54:00 professional offices that only are one lot in depth.

18:54:03 As I look up and down this portion of Armenia, it appears

18:54:10 that that -- that's the pattern with one -- one lot in

18:54:14 depth and two lots in depth and it has got -- from my

18:54:21 reading of this, it has relation to the west, to the

18:54:23 north and to the South of the second lot.

18:54:25 So that's why I wonder how you came up with this

18:54:28 recommendation.

18:54:30 >>ABBYE FEELEY: On this recommendation, full look at

18:54:33 your site plan, the building is shifted almost the entire

18:54:39 second lot to the front on Armenia.

18:54:43 The total massive front of the scale to front on Armenia

18:54:47 and then setback adjacent to the residential portion.

18:54:50 Although it is a double lot and it is more massive, the

18:54:53 predominant mass of that building is pushed all the way

18:54:55 up to Armenia which is more consistent with the overlay

18:54:58 district.

18:54:59 So it is a little bit different.

18:55:02 A little further South on Armenia.

18:55:04 Two other office buildings that we have done directly

18:55:08 across from the armory two-story in nature as well.

18:55:10 Immediately surrounding this which has a couple of

18:55:13 parcels that may be ripe for redevelopment.

18:55:18 There was other compatible mass and scale.

18:55:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: They are not asking for any waivers

18:55:23 to the west, any --

18:55:24 >>ABBYE FEELEY: No.

18:55:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No waivers or setbacks.

18:55:29 >>ABBYE FEELEY: A 45-foot setback.

18:55:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I hadn't realized that.

18:55:50 >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Tony Garcia, planning

18:55:51 commission staff.

18:55:53 I have been sworn in.

18:55:56 This is located just outside historic west Tampa and it

18:56:02 is in proximity of Fort Hesterly Armory located right

18:56:03 here to the southeast of the site.

18:56:08 It has a land use designation of 35.

18:56:11 On the western side of this section of Armenia is

18:56:14 residential 20 which has locational criteria standards

18:56:18 allows consideration of neighborhood Commercial and

18:56:21 office types of uses in over here is our new Commercial

18:56:25 35 which is our old heavy Commercial 24 designation that

18:56:29 allows Commercial intensive types of uses.

18:56:32 As far as how this area has developed on Armenia, it is

18:56:36 becoming a professional office district.

18:56:38 Miss Feeley is correct on how the development occurred on

18:56:39 this particular segment.

18:56:42 The council recently in the last couple of months have

18:56:45 approved specifically and let me show you on an aerial

18:56:46 over here.

18:56:51 Here is one of the two -- two-story professional offices

18:56:54 that she has related to you directly across from the

18:56:57 armory and directly adjacent to the north with one that

18:57:00 was recently approved by this council for approximately

18:57:02 10,000 square feet.

18:57:06 A two-story -- a two-story project which was recently

18:57:07 approved by this council.

18:57:10 You do have a professional office use to the north of

18:57:12 this site, but you do have residential to the west.

18:57:14 What is significant about it was the same reason we came

18:57:18 to the same conclusion that city staff did was because of

18:57:21 the way the applicant was able to go ahead and design the

18:57:24 building and provide actually -- I am going to show you

18:57:25 this aerial.

18:57:27 Where the highest point of the building which is

18:57:30 basically 45 feet with architectural features is right

18:57:32 here at the actual corner of the parcel.

18:57:35 So at the corner of State and Armenia is where you have

18:57:38 your highest point of the structure, and then it is set

18:57:42 back very nicely with a considerable buffer from the

18:57:44 residential to the west of approximately 45 feet.

18:57:47 The applicant we feel has done a very good job in being

18:57:49 sensitive to the residential presence to the west.

18:57:53 This will be similar in design and in scale to the other

18:57:59 structures that are farther to the South that she

18:58:00 mentioned.

18:58:04 9 feet taller than the other structures and this goes to

18:58:04 about 45 feet.

18:58:08 The Planning Commission staff based on those facts that I

18:58:11 gave you find this consistent with the comprehensive

18:58:11 plan.

18:58:13 Thank you.

18:58:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions.

18:58:18 Petitioner?

18:58:22 Petitioner?

18:58:30 >> Good evening, Henry hicks here as the petitioner and

18:58:31 I have been sworn in.

18:58:35 I would just like to point out the only real issue that

18:58:40 seems to be of concern at all has to do with the parking.

18:58:43 And I would like to just point out that this originally

18:58:48 was zoned for an office building.

18:58:52 By changing it to medical, we obviously have a necessary

18:58:56 increase in the need for parking, and there is already

18:59:00 available off-site directly on the street three parking

18:59:01 spaces.

18:59:05 So in essence what we are really looking at is a -- is a

18:59:10 waiver that essentially is about three parking spaces.

18:59:13 So we don't feel like that's a great deviation, and we

18:59:14 think it is a nice project.

18:59:17 And by the way, concerning the issue about the two lots

18:59:20 and whatnot, I think there is a reality to this

18:59:22 particular area.

18:59:24 And one of the realities is that there will be this

18:59:27 Commercial development with the armory and whatnot, and

18:59:30 there already is an industrial across the street from

18:59:31 Armenia from it.

18:59:34 I think this provides a very nice buffer for the

18:59:35 residences to the west.

18:59:38 And we try to be very sensitive to them in terms of doing

18:59:42 this development.

18:59:44 I will be happy to answer any questions.

18:59:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

18:59:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We received a letter from a neighbor

18:59:53 to the west asking for the wall to be taller.

18:59:55 They specifically asked for a 10-foot wall.

18:59:58 I don't know if that's legal, but if it were, would you

18:59:59 do it?

19:00:02 I guess we would have to ask our attorney.

19:00:05 A 10-foot wall legal?

19:00:08 This is a PD so --

19:00:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We do 8-foot walls.

19:00:14 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Abby feel Lee.

19:00:16 It is a site plan development.

19:00:20 Standard wall regulations allow for 6 foot in height.

19:00:22 They could if they wished ask to increase that through

19:00:24 your approval to 10 foot.

19:00:28 I don't know if staff would feel real comfortable with

19:00:28 that.

19:00:32 Even when we did the condo on Bayshore and Bay to Bay

19:00:35 they wanted a really big buffer, and 10 feet is quite

19:00:39 enormous, especially right next to a single-family house.

19:00:42 You look outside and it is going to be not so pleasant

19:00:44 and not much sunshine coming in the windows on that side

19:00:46 of the house.

19:00:50 You know, I that is completely up to the petitioner.

19:00:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Not the next-door neighbor but State

19:00:56 street, behind you.

19:00:58 Said the light was shining through her bedroom.

19:01:01 That's why she wanted the wall there.

19:01:03 >> I know miss Stevens and I have been very sensitive to

19:01:03 her.

19:01:07 In the previous zoning that was done on this, there was a

19:01:12 specific note in the plan that provided that lighting

19:01:15 would be done such a fashion as to not to shine in her

19:01:22 windows because she has a fairly small side yard there I

19:01:24 will be happy to build a 10-foot wall.

19:01:26 I don't think she will like a 10-foot wall.

19:01:30 I had a 8-foot wall attempted to be put behind my house

19:01:33 once in Hyde Park and almost seemed like a handball

19:01:33 court.

19:01:35 It is quite severe.

19:01:38 10 feet would be -- but we would be happy to do it if

19:01:41 that was something that was concern for her.

19:01:44 I think she is concerned about having ambient light

19:01:48 coming into her windows and we will make sure that is not

19:01:50 the case anyway.

19:01:53 >>GWEN MILLER: You said you will put a 10-foot, but will

19:01:57 you talk to her and see if maybe not the 10 but maybe an

19:01:58 8?

19:02:02 You said a 10 would be too much, how about an 8?

19:02:06 >> Yes, I will be happy to talk to her about it.

19:02:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Before you come back --

19:02:11 >> Before we come back for second reading.

19:02:14 >>JULIA COLE: The problem is he would need a waiver.

19:02:16 The waiver would have to be part of your motion today to

19:02:21 be added between first and second reading.

19:02:22 >>GWEN MILLER: To add in --

19:02:24 >>JULIA COLE: You would be adding.

19:02:28 He wouldn't have to build the ten feet, but he at least

19:02:31 would have the waiver on his site plan.

19:02:34 >>GWEN MILLER: She might not want.

19:02:38 But put it there in case she wants it.

19:02:42 >> Mr. Hicks, they are recommending along that section of

19:02:46 the wall they could put four or ten or 14-foot trees to

19:02:51 add to that buffer for just that segment that abuts the

19:02:54 bedroom area so it wouldn't necessarily be a concrete

19:02:59 buffer but more of a vegetative buffer that would allow

19:03:00 some light to come through.

19:03:03 Because when that concrete goes up, no light comes

19:03:04 through.

19:03:09 So I don't know if she would be open to that.

19:03:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.

19:03:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Hicks, help me out with the site

19:03:16 plan.

19:03:18 Sometimes they are not easy to read.

19:03:20 What is the height of the building on the west side.

19:03:23 >> There is no building on the west side.

19:03:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Of the building --

19:03:30 >> What is the height?

19:03:34 On the west side of the building?

19:03:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Closest to the property owner we were

19:03:46 just talking about.

19:03:46 >> 35 feet.

19:03:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 35 feet.

19:03:49 And we were talking about --

19:03:56 >> I think it is back 45 feet from that property line.

19:03:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That was my last question.

19:04:02 How close to the property line is the building?

19:04:03 >> About 45 feet.

19:04:07 What is the light issue, the parking lights?

19:04:08 >> Yes.

19:04:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But parking lights -- we have ways

19:04:12 and we need to make sure the notes are very

19:04:16 straightforward that they would be direction alley inward

19:04:18 and not toward her.

19:04:20 >> My understanding that is what the code requires

19:04:21 anyway.

19:04:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That is usually the way.

19:04:28 I agree, I mean I think a six-foot wall -- as long as it

19:04:34 is a masonry wall and not a PVC wall or whatever is an

19:04:38 adequate buffer on that side.

19:04:43 Let's see what else.

19:04:46 That's all I --

19:04:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions from Council?

19:04:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

19:04:53 I thought that the suggestion made by Miss Feeley about

19:04:57 the additional vegetation was a great idea.

19:05:07 Do we need to put that on the site plan now?

19:05:08 >>ABBYE FEELEY: You are going to plant.

19:05:12 Our buffer says -- right, that's what I was saying.

19:05:14 27-130 does require a planting there.

19:05:18 It is going to be shrubs and trees on center.

19:05:21 Typically 20 feet on center, but maybe you want to say

19:05:25 for the x portion or the 50 feet of -- wherever you think

19:05:30 that is that you would plant for, you know, 10 foot at

19:05:35 time of planting to specify to specify that so you don't

19:05:38 have to wait for those trees to get a buffer versus a

19:05:40 wall.

19:05:43 >> Can you give me just one moment.

19:05:44 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Sure.

19:05:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The other question I have, and I just

19:05:53 remembered Mr. Hicks, the other question I had is access

19:05:54 to the local street.

19:05:57 Are we accessing -- are you also accessing out to Armenia

19:05:59 or no?

19:06:00 >> No.

19:06:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just to State.

19:06:05 >> Just so you understand this property has an alleyway.

19:06:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yeah, I see it.

19:06:11 >> State Street on one side and the alley on the other

19:06:12 side.

19:06:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And you will improve the alley or the

19:06:17 alley is already improved to be used --

19:06:22 >> Yes, the alley is, yes.

19:06:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess the only other concern I

19:06:27 would have if I was residential on State Street that that

19:06:30 all of a sudden becomes more of a thoroughfare.

19:06:34 Any discussion about directionalizing the exiting traffic

19:06:38 back out to Armenia or anything like that?

19:06:41 I don't know if it is feasible on your site plan.

19:06:43 Would you want to do that --

19:06:47 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Mr. Dingfelder, there is an RO on this

19:06:51 railroad, an RO-1 with the same access point.

19:06:53 Staff didn't -- there wasn't any channelization of the

19:06:56 prior and for an office building of similar size.

19:06:58 So staff didn't necessarily feel a need for

19:07:03 channelization of this.

19:07:04 >> Let me go back to the neighbor's concern.

19:07:09 One of the concerns I have about committing to trees or

19:07:12 mature trees on that particular area is it is very

19:07:15 possible that we may have to commit to some type of

19:07:18 retention pond there relative to drainage.

19:07:23 It is our intention to do underwater -- or underground

19:07:26 retention to a certain degree, but I don't know whether

19:07:29 that is going to create an issue for us from an

19:07:32 engineering standpoint on that particular area.

19:07:34 I don't know the best way to handle it.

19:07:38 I think that frankly my neighbor is going to be fine by

19:07:40 what we do, because it is going to be completely

19:07:45 consistent with what was already in place with the

19:07:49 existing zoning.

19:07:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to share with you -- we

19:07:54 all received a letter from the neighbor and her daughter.

19:07:55 They are not happy.

19:07:57 They don't want us to approve this at all.

19:07:59 They are very concerned about the impact have a medical

19:08:00 facility.

19:08:03 And I think that -- and they -- and they want -- I mean

19:08:07 this is a change of use from residential to a medical

19:08:07 office.

19:08:09 They want to make sure that they are buffered properly

19:08:12 and that's what we are trying to do is to ensure their

19:08:14 buffering.

19:08:17 Soar we are trying to be protective of the neighbor

19:08:19 because you really are injecting a Commercial use into a

19:08:20 residential neighborhood.

19:08:22 So you have to do something.

19:08:23 So --

19:08:26 >> Let me just -- let me just point something out.

19:08:28 It is not a residential use.

19:08:32 We are not asking to be changed from a residential use to

19:08:34 an office medical use.

19:08:38 Right now it is an office use.

19:08:41 Right now the parking spaces that are already designed

19:08:47 for the approved -- for what it is right now are only

19:08:51 five feet from miss Steven's property.

19:08:55 We have redesigned it so they are nine feet away from her

19:08:56 wall.

19:09:00 We -- this plan actually is an enhancement to what she is

19:09:03 going to be experiencing in terms of the development of

19:09:05 this property.

19:09:10 That's why I don't -- I can't -- I understand the concern

19:09:13 that the Council has to citizens coming and objecting to

19:09:13 a plan.

19:09:15 No question about it.

19:09:19 She was here to object to the plan back in 2006 when the

19:09:26 Council approved this to be a RO-1, 4500-square-foot

19:09:31 professional office building with a six-foot wall,

19:09:37 concrete wall, with a parking setback of five feet.

19:09:39 We are now providing more of a setback not changing

19:09:41 anything else.

19:09:46 So -- what we are doing is an enhancement to what she

19:09:47 already has.

19:09:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I ask one more question.

19:09:55 Mr. Hicks not to kick a horse or anything but in her

19:09:57 letter she said we had denied it.

19:10:00 I remember when we approved the RO-1 but I don't remember

19:10:02 a denial in between.

19:10:08 >> There has never been a denial.

19:10:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.

19:10:14 So -- this is just a modification of the approved use.

19:10:19 >> It is not only just a modification, it is an

19:10:25 enhancement compared to what is already in place there.

19:10:28 Miss Saul-Sena doesn't seem to --

19:10:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think I -- honestly, it depends on

19:10:34 what kind of medical facility is there.

19:10:39 I would be very upset if a pediatrician moved next to me.

19:10:43 If it is a pediatrician's office it would be wildly busy.

19:10:47 Other medical uses are less busy. Do you know what kind

19:10:50 of physician will use this medical office.

19:10:52 >> Right now the intention is for half of the building to

19:10:55 be used for the office for a plastic surgeon, and the

19:10:59 other half to be used by me, which I have a law practice.

19:11:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That sounds pretty quiet.

19:11:06 Okay.

19:11:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?

19:11:09 It is a public hearing.

19:11:12 Anyone wish to address council on this petition?

19:11:15 Anyone here wish to address council on this petition?

19:11:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.

19:11:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.

19:11:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor by signifying aye.

19:11:24 Opposed.

19:11:26 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I have a revision sheet for this one

19:11:27 that I provided.

19:11:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.

19:11:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That is the letter.

19:11:42 By the way, I watched that "nip/tuck" show so I don't

19:11:44 know how quiet it is going to be.

19:11:44 [Laughter]

19:11:48 I move for first reading including Miss Feeley's

19:11:53 excellent revision sheet dated and all the conditions

19:11:57 agreed to by Mr. Hicks.

19:12:01 An ordinance rezoning property 22 West State Street in

19:12:04 the City of Tampa, Florida.

19:12:05 In section 1.

19:12:09 Classification RO-1 residential office, office business

19:12:13 professional to PD, planned development office medical

19:12:18 and business professional provided by an effective date.

19:12:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second?

19:12:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

19:12:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

19:12:25 All in favor signify by saying aye.

19:12:27 Opposed.

19:12:30 >> Motion carried with Caetano and Miranda being absent.

19:12:35 Second reading and adoption will be on January 7, 2010 at

19:13:10 9:30 A.M.

19:13:14 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Abbye Feeley, Land Development

19:13:16 Coordination council.

19:13:22 Special use application V09-445 located at 2415 S. Himes

19:13:33 Avenue also known as Plant High School.

19:13:45 This is -- this is for the request this evening that is

19:13:50 before you is for the expansion and expansion to plant,

19:13:52 not for the school as a whole.

19:13:56 The expansion that is being requested is to construct a

19:14:01 16638-square-foot two-story building addition.

19:14:07 The original school built in '26 was a special use

19:14:10 established prior to schools being a special use within

19:14:11 the city.

19:14:15 So all of that obviously gets to stay the way that it is.

19:14:19 Vehicular access is currently located on South Dale

19:14:22 Mabry, sterling avenue, S. Himes Avenue and San Miguel

19:14:23 street.

19:14:26 The proposed two-story edition on the southwest portion

19:14:29 of the site and I will show you that on the aerial land

19:14:30 are he place an existing building on-site.

19:14:35 The setbacks specific to just that expansion is 46 feet 2

19:14:39 inches from the South property line and 355 feet from the

19:14:42 west property line which is Dale Mabry highway.

19:14:44 The expansion does not require additional parking as it

19:14:48 will replace temporary student stations currently on the

19:14:50 site that are housed in portables.

19:14:54 This is to make permanent student stations versus the

19:14:57 temporary student stations that are currently located in

19:14:58 the portables.

19:15:01 So it would be -- be a wash.

19:15:06 The only outstanding comment is upon Transportation, they

19:15:13 would like to see the City of Tampa and SREF parking

19:15:15 calculations be added to the site plan within the site

19:15:18 planning table and I have discussed that, and they will

19:15:21 be doing that in between first and second readings.

19:15:30 Let me go ahead and show you the site.

19:15:33 This is the zoning atlas.

19:15:38 The whole site is RS-100 which is residential single

19:15:39 family 100.

19:15:42 As I said originally built in 1926.

19:15:53 Schools are a special use in this zoning category.

19:15:55 I might have to zoom in, but there is a little blue

19:15:59 triangle you will see on your aerial that I provided you

19:16:01 and that is the area that we are speaking about this

19:16:04 evening to where the expansion is going to be occurring.

19:16:07 This existing building here will be removed, and the

19:16:08 expansion will be placed there.

19:16:11 It is my understanding and I believe miss Grimes will

19:16:15 speak to this that these portables here will be removed

19:16:19 as these temporary student stations will be replaced as

19:16:25 permanent student stations in the new expansion.

19:16:30 There is a photo of the subject area we are talking

19:16:30 about.

19:16:37 I don't know if you can -- zoom in a little bit.

19:16:41 A couple of times the weather we have been having is not

19:16:43 very conducive to good pictures.

19:16:45 There is currently a fence.

19:16:49 On the other side of that fence is a pretty good ditch.

19:16:50 Stormwater ditch.

19:16:53 We have a little picture of that not that -- it is kind

19:16:56 of hard to get it through the fence there.

19:17:00 And also you can see there is strong vegetative buffer on

19:17:03 the other side, the residential portion of the property.

19:17:06 This is the building immediately to the north of the

19:17:07 subject area.

19:17:15 This is a view looking back toward Dale Mabry.

19:17:16 Went around the outside.

19:17:19 This is the back portion of where that addition is going

19:17:20 to go.

19:17:23 This is Sterling.

19:17:27 And there is single-family residential on both sides of

19:17:28 Sterling there.

19:17:32 This is Sterling down the middle here and then the single

19:17:34 family to the east.

19:17:35 Single family to the west.

19:17:39 And these are -- what I did was I just worked from

19:17:42 Sterling back toward Dale Mabry and you can see the

19:17:44 single family that directly abuts where the expansion is

19:17:47 going to go.

19:17:52 Single family.

19:17:53 Single family.

19:17:59 The day I was out, there was the Sterling entrance was

19:18:05 closed, the gates.

19:18:08 As previously stated, I also did provide special use

19:18:13 criteria for you on pages 2 and 3 of the staff report.

19:18:18 It says calculations are added to the site plan and then

19:18:21 the plan will be found consistent with City of Tampa

19:18:21 regulations.

19:18:24 Thank you.

19:18:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

19:18:26 Two questions.

19:18:31 One, I was reading through the staff report and then the

19:18:37 -- the applicable statute, and -- but -- and I couldn't

19:18:41 sort out exactly why they need to come for approval at

19:18:45 all, because a lot of school facilities seem to be exempt

19:18:48 from local regulations.

19:18:51 >>ABBYE FEELEY: That relates back to -- and I will ask

19:18:54 Julia to elaborate further, but that relates back to the

19:18:57 Growth Management act and the interlocal agreement that

19:19:00 the city has with the school board through our

19:19:03 comprehensive plan for siting of school facilities and

19:19:06 the school facilities element.

19:19:11 So the amount of -- the number of students I believe

19:19:15 triggered that that is will be added about 5% through the

19:19:18 interlocal it now requires that we do have that come in

19:19:22 as a special use, and that's why when we looked at the

19:19:25 special use, we deferred back to the Florida statute for

19:19:29 the educational facilities which limits our reviews

19:19:31 strictly to that expansion.

19:19:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.

19:19:35 And the other clarification I needed was if you put the

19:19:41 arrow back -- the aerial back up.

19:19:49 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I don't know where I put it.

19:19:52 I put it away.

19:19:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We have a bunch of extras if you want

19:19:59 it.

19:20:00 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yeah, here it is.

19:20:03 It got hidden in there.

19:20:05 Sure.

19:20:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.

19:20:14 Then slide it up just a little bit.

19:20:17 Okay, so the blue area is the -- is the proposed

19:20:19 construction area they are knocking down.

19:20:22 I think the auto shop or whatever that was.

19:20:26 And -- but just clarification, the two houses, the ones

19:20:29 that are abutting -- directly abutting it.

19:20:33 You said you were walking up the street shooting the

19:20:37 front yards and you shot multiple houses, two houses

19:20:40 directly abutting the construction.

19:20:43 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I showed you a picture here that looked

19:20:46 north to the gate that has a single family and has a

19:20:50 driveway that accesses Sterling and the first house here,

19:20:53 yes, and the second house.

19:20:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.

19:20:56 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Those would be.

19:21:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

19:21:10 >> Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.

19:21:13 I have been sworn.

19:21:20 Just a couple more comments to add on to Miss Feeley's

19:21:21 comments.

19:21:23 This is located in the South Tampa area.

19:21:25 We all know the location of Plant High School.

19:21:30 Just to let you know the land use classification is major

19:21:34 public, semi public that allowing types of uses special

19:21:37 uses, schools, Universities, hospitals, airports, those

19:21:39 types of things.

19:21:46 There is no FAR restrictions on this property because the

19:21:49 need for them and the capacity for them to go ahead to

19:21:51 expand to the growing needs of the surrounding area that

19:21:52 it serves.

19:21:54 As you can see, here is Dale Mabry.

19:21:58 Here is the land use category of CMU-35 and you have

19:22:01 residential 6 a low density land use category which is

19:22:04 basically to the west of Dale Mabry, to the South of the

19:22:04 school.

19:22:07 Here is Residential 10 located to the east of the school

19:22:10 and, of course, Residential 6 located to the north.

19:22:14 Recreational space which identifies the golf course and

19:22:20 close proximity to the school.

19:22:23 She has already gone into detail what the purpose of the

19:22:24 expansion of the school is for.

19:22:28 There are policies within the school siting section of

19:22:29 the comprehensive plan that allow for this type of

19:22:33 provision to be proposed and to be supportive of the

19:22:36 comprehensive plan as they exist in it.

19:22:38 Their request is modest as by standards for public

19:22:41 schools and especially for high schools of this size,

19:22:45 especially with the proximity to a major arterial road

19:22:46 directly to the west of the site.

19:22:49 Planning Commission staff based on all those findings of

19:22:52 fact see no additional impact based on the modest request

19:22:55 being provided by or being recommended by the school.

19:23:00 The Planning Commission staff, therefore, finds the pro

19:23:05 proposed request consistent with the comprehensive plan.

19:23:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?

19:23:09 >>JULIA COLE: Julia Cole, legal department.

19:23:12 Mr. Dingfelder already started to address the issue, but

19:23:14 I did want to get up prior to us moving forward with our

19:23:18 public hearing and discuss legally this process, because

19:23:20 it is a little bit different than the processes you

19:23:23 typically see for a Special Use Permit.

19:23:27 This is a Special Use Permit to approve an expansion of

19:23:31 an existing school, Plant High School.

19:23:34 And as a result of it being a public school, you are

19:23:37 reviewing it through your Special Use Permit process, but

19:23:39 you also are reviewing this through the limitations in

19:23:44 Florida statutes for school siting, as well as the

19:23:47 interlocal agreement that statutorily we entered into

19:23:50 with the school board to set forth the processes for the

19:23:53 review of both the siting of new schools and also the

19:23:55 expansion of existing schools.

19:24:00 Specifically what Florida statutes say, the process is

19:24:04 for the expansion of the school is in coming forward to

19:24:08 make a request, follow whatever process in your local

19:24:11 government and that's why they are here for a Special Use

19:24:15 Permit, but that the local governing body may impose

19:24:17 reasonable development standards and conditions on the

19:24:20 expansion only.

19:24:22 For your review tonight is very limited.

19:24:28 It is only as to the expansion and the local governing

19:24:31 body and that's why it has to come through this process.

19:24:33 It does need to have a hearing in front of City Council

19:24:36 because you are the local governing body.

19:24:40 You may impose reasonable conditions and development

19:24:43 standards on the expansion only, and in a manner

19:24:46 consistent with another Florida statutory provision

19:24:47 relates to the expenditure of funds.

19:24:50 You can't ask them to do something that they have no

19:24:51 legal authority to spend funds on.

19:24:55 But that is the context of this hearing, and I wanted to

19:24:58 make that clear from the onset.

19:25:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: They can't share that gates' money

19:25:01 with us or anything?

19:25:07 Just kidding, just kidding.

19:25:13 >> Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of City Council,

19:25:17 Gina Grimes with the law firm of Hill, Ward and Henderson

19:25:21 and represent the Hillsborough County school board on

19:25:22 this application this evening.

19:25:24 We have some representatives from the school board.

19:25:28 We have Kathy Valdez, the Chief Facilities Officer, as

19:25:31 well as Lorraine Duffy-Suarez who is the major of their

19:25:34 Growth Management and Planning Department.

19:25:37 Also this evening, we have some people from the

19:25:37 administration.

19:25:41 We have Principal Rob Nelson, Assistant Principal Laura

19:25:49 Figarota and Assistant Principal Gina Felota.

19:25:57 As you have heard from both Julia and -- and Abbey.

19:26:01 This proposal is a modest edition, a 16,638-square-foot

19:26:05 proposed classroom addition sand proposed to add 16

19:26:05 classrooms.

19:26:09 I am going to begin by saying the intent and the purpose

19:26:12 of this addition is not to increase enrollment at the

19:26:14 school in any way, shape or form.

19:26:17 There are two reasons why we are applying for this

19:26:19 special use for this expansion.

19:26:22 First reason is because of the class size amendment to

19:26:24 the Florida Constitution that passed.

19:26:28 We are operating under a deadline that we have to meet

19:26:31 that class size limitation requirement by August of next

19:26:33 year.

19:26:36 And the size limitations for high schools is 25 students

19:26:38 per classroom so we will need more classroom space.

19:26:41 That is one of the reasons we are asking for -- for

19:26:42 approval of the addition.

19:26:47 The second reason as mentioned by -- by Abbey the

19:26:49 eliminate nation of ten portable classrooms that already

19:26:51 exist on the plant site.

19:26:54 There is a statutory requirement, statute statutory

19:26:57 provisions that require you or suggest you or encourage

19:27:00 you to reduce the number of portable classrooms you have

19:27:01 on a site.

19:27:03 And if you don't do that, you are required to maintain

19:27:04 those to certain standards.

19:27:09 Those standards are very high and very costly, and it is

19:27:12 more cost effective to replace the portable with

19:27:13 permanent classroom space.

19:27:15 There is also a district-wide policy in Hillsborough

19:27:18 County where they have tried to eliminate as many

19:27:21 portables as possible and have virtually eliminated

19:27:25 hundreds of portables throughout the school system.

19:27:29 I want to go back and touch on something that Julia just

19:27:31 mentioned to you and that is the limitations on the

19:27:31 review.

19:27:35 As she said, the -- our application and your -- the scope

19:27:37 of your review is for the addition only.

19:27:40 And I want to go -- I want to mention that, because I

19:27:42 believe there might be individuals here this evening that

19:27:45 may want to address other portions of the site, other

19:27:48 buildings on the site, and we are asking that we focus

19:27:53 the testimony and the review just on the addition area.

19:28:00 Your own code, section 27-294 provides that any special

19:28:03 use that is existing is already deemed a conforming use,

19:28:06 but if you add on, you have to go through the special use

19:28:09 process and of course that is what we are doing.

19:28:12 Also Florida statutory provision and I have included all

19:28:15 of these code sections and statutory provisions in the

19:28:17 documentation that you have in front of you, but there is

19:28:21 a Florida statutory provision that says that whenever you

19:28:24 have an existing school site, it says it shall be

19:28:26 considered consistent with the applicable local

19:28:28 government comp plan.

19:28:30 So we know the existing school site is already consistent

19:28:33 with the comp plan.

19:28:41 Also, miss -- Julia mentioned that your -- that your

19:28:43 review is limited to the expansion only.

19:28:47 I want to go one step further and mention also that in

19:28:49 imposing conditions related to the expansion, those

19:28:53 conditions have to be consistent with what is called the

19:28:58 SREF, the SREF.

19:29:02 You cannot impose chance are in conflict with the SREF

19:29:04 and this will be important with respect to the parking

19:29:07 issue and I will discuss on that in a little more detail

19:29:08 later.

19:29:11 Julia also mentioned the interlocal agreement you entered

19:29:12 into last summer with the school board.

19:29:15 I want to actually just read a very short excerpt out of

19:29:18 that interlocal agreement which says that the city -- the

19:29:22 city has determined that schools are the cornerstones of

19:29:25 effective neighborhood design and a focal point for the

19:29:26 development of neighborhood plans.

19:29:28 You have already recognized the importance of schools and

19:29:31 the importance not just of schools but schools in

19:29:35 neighborhoods.

19:29:41 I want to also just walk you through the site plan in

19:29:44 little bit more detail.

19:29:47 A copy of the site plan is included in those materials as

19:29:49 well.

19:29:52 And just going to touch on some of the points that

19:29:52 weren't mentioned earlier.

19:29:55 The size of the addition and the location of the

19:29:56 addition.

19:29:59 The addition, which is located right here along the

19:30:08 southern property line, is -- is -- this addition is

19:30:11 approximately 166 feet long and about 75 feet wide.

19:30:14 And you can see on the Eastern portion of the -- of the

19:30:18 site is an existing building, sometimes referred to as

19:30:19 South hall.

19:30:23 And I just would like for you to note that this proposed

19:30:26 addition is approximately half the size of the existing

19:30:27 South hall.

19:30:30 The location is also important because one of the things

19:30:32 that the school board did when they chose the location of

19:30:35 the addition was that they made sure it was in a location

19:30:40 that wasn't displacing parking, on-site parking.

19:30:43 This portion right here where the addition is to be

19:30:46 located, there currently exists there, as you mentioned

19:30:50 Mr. Dingfelder, the old auto body -- or auto shop.

19:30:54 Now it is being used as an ROTC building.

19:30:58 That is an approximate 12,000-square-foot building.

19:31:01 Our addition is 16,000 square feet -- I am sorry a

19:31:06 4,000-square-foot and an addition of 16 and net increase

19:31:07 of 12,000.

19:31:10 Keep in mind that we are removing the 10 portable

19:31:13 classrooms and so with that, we are having a net increase

19:31:17 of only six classrooms on the site, and again that is to

19:31:21 accommodate the smaller class sizes that are required to

19:31:23 comply with and not -- we are not adding the classrooms

19:31:25 to add additional students.

19:31:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Miss Grimes, what is the height of

19:31:28 the --

19:31:29 >> The structure?

19:31:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The existing building compared to the

19:31:33 new building.

19:31:34 >> The existing.

19:31:38 It is a one-story building and it is -- I don't know the

19:31:38 exact --

19:31:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Looks a little taller.

19:31:41 >> Probably around 20 feet.

19:31:45 The proposed addition is the 31-foot building.

19:31:49 And the RS-100 zoning district, the height limitation as

19:31:50 you know is 35 feet.

19:31:53 So we are under the height limitation for the RS-100

19:31:55 zoning district.

19:31:58 The elevations are included as part of the package.

19:32:02 I won't go into detail regarding the elevations, but I

19:32:05 want to go through some pictures we have taken of the

19:32:07 site and here is that building, Mr. Dingfelder.

19:32:11 This -- is a picture of the location of the Eastern end

19:32:14 of the proposed addition.

19:32:18 This right here -- and I should have had a better angle I

19:32:22 think -- Abbey had a better angle.

19:32:24 The western end of the proposed addition.

19:32:27 This is a closer shot of the ROTC building, the former

19:32:30 auto body shop to be demolished.

19:32:35 And here -- I took a shot because I wanted you to see the

19:32:35 setback.

19:32:37 The 46-foot setback.

19:32:43 Here is -- here are the residential properties to the

19:32:46 South and this building and the proposed building

19:32:48 addition both of them are approximately 46 feet from the

19:32:55 rear property lines on Palmyra that abut the site.

19:32:58 Here is a better shot of the existing drainage ditch in

19:33:02 back of the property that back up to the school site.

19:33:06 So you have the drainage ditch, the fence, and in this

19:33:10 other shot you can see where -- that is the inside of the

19:33:15 fence, and then you have some additional area here before

19:33:22 you -- before you reach the 45-foot -- 46-foot setback.

19:33:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The ditch looks a lot cleaner than

19:33:28 when I used to play in it when I was a kid.

19:33:31 >> This is a shot of a similar but smaller setback that

19:33:37 exists between the properties along Palmyra and South

19:33:38 Palm.

19:33:40 Approximately 39 feet so the proposed addition will be

19:33:44 set back an additional 7 feet.

19:33:47 But I wanted to provide you a shot to show the extensive

19:33:51 buffer area that will exist on the other side of Sterling

19:33:54 when the addition -- if the addition is built in is a

19:33:57 shot of the existing tree canopy adjacent to the proposed

19:34:01 addition.

19:34:05 This is a closer shot of the existing tree canopy

19:34:09 adjacent to the Catalanos.

19:34:13 Mr. Dingfelder, you are correct, there are two floors

19:34:14 will abut in addition.

19:34:20 If I can go back to the site plan, you can see that the

19:34:23 addition ends almost in line with the second property

19:34:24 owner.

19:34:31 There is the Catalanos at the corner of Sterling and one

19:34:36 lot in are the -- that will back up to the additions.

19:34:39 So basically two property owners that will be directly

19:34:40 adjacent to the addition.

19:34:44 And because of that, we took some shots from a -- from an

19:34:48 elevated stand so that you would have a better idea of

19:34:56 the second-story view from the proposed addition into the

19:35:00 Catalano's yard.

19:35:06 The tree can adjacent to the Catalano you can not see

19:35:07 into the yard.

19:35:13 The tree canopy adjacent to the Osterman.

19:35:18 But here also is the second-story view of the tree canopy

19:35:23 adjacent and you can't even see into either back yard.

19:35:25 Mitigation.

19:35:29 In designing this proposed addition, we attempted to

19:35:31 minimize the impact it would have on the adjacent

19:35:35 properties as much as possible, and as you know, the

19:35:38 setback requirement of 45 feet is much greater than what

19:35:40 the city code requires.

19:35:44 Additionally the height of 31 feet is lower than the

19:35:46 maximum allowed in this zoning district.

19:35:50 But in addition to that, several of us met with the

19:35:55 Catalanos and spoke to many neighbors who attended the

19:35:59 community meeting and we determined it was in everyone's

19:36:00 best interest to -- to provide some additional

19:36:02 mitigation.

19:36:05 And we have provided to the city, and it is in your

19:36:07 package of materials, what we are referring to as the

19:36:11 "change sheet" or "revision sheet" which identifies

19:36:15 several of the other mitigation techniques we intend to

19:36:15 incorporate.

19:36:18 The first one that I wanted to touch on was the landscape

19:36:22 buffer adjacent to the property along West Palm Beached.

19:36:24 Ira.

19:36:27 What we are proposing to do -- you can see that it is

19:36:31 already extensively screen by the extensive tree canopy

19:36:34 and what we are proposing to do is add on to that

19:36:37 landscape buffer, the existing landscape buffer.

19:36:39 What we are proposing to do -- and here is the ditch that

19:36:47 you saw 30 feet from the property line.

19:36:51 We are proposing to install 11 live oaks, not laurel oaks

19:36:56 but live oaks, planted 15 feet on center.

19:37:02 And those live oaks will be approximately 14 feet at the

19:37:03 time of planting.

19:37:09 14 feet high.

19:37:11 We think between the existing tree canopy that exists

19:37:15 right in here and the proposed landscape screening and

19:37:18 buffer that you will virtually be unable -- completely

19:37:21 unable -- it will be impossible to see into the backyards

19:37:24 of -- of the two property owners that abut the proposed

19:37:29 addition.

19:37:32 On the side of the chain-link fence we are going to

19:37:37 install a viburnum hedge that will be maintained at 6

19:37:38 feet.

19:37:42 We are trying to work in and around a 24-inch water main

19:37:46 and 20-foot easement that exists within this same area in

19:37:51 is another rendering of that enhanced landscape buffer

19:37:54 and what you can see is basically the height of those

19:37:58 trees at the time of planting relative to the proposed

19:38:00 addition.

19:38:03 And this is a view as if there was no existing landscape

19:38:06 or tree canopy there, and as you know there is one and

19:38:09 this will be in addition to what is existing.

19:38:13 And this is the view from adjacent to the property line

19:38:15 of the trees relative to -- you can see it -- relative to

19:38:22 the height of the structure.

19:38:24 In addition to the landscape buffer that also exceeds the

19:38:28 city code, we have also agreed in the change sheet to

19:38:40 permanently close the gates at Sterling and Palmyra.

19:38:42 That is what neighbors have wanted and we will be using

19:38:46 it for emergency access only as identified on the change

19:38:48 sheet.

19:38:52 Additionally we have agreed at the residents' request,

19:38:58 the Catalano's request that at the back of the ROTC

19:39:00 building for parking --

19:39:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you have a copy of the change

19:39:04 sheet?

19:39:08 >> It is in your notebook at tab 11.

19:39:10 >> Thank you.

19:39:13 The Catalanos have requested that the teacher parking

19:39:19 area in the rear identified on here as "asphalt

19:39:21 pavement."

19:39:24 They requested that we also add a note to the site plan

19:39:27 that no parking will be further.

19:39:29 There were teacher parking that occurred there and

19:39:34 teachers going in and out of the gate left it open and

19:39:35 caused issue.

19:39:39 We agreed to permanently close the gate so there will be

19:39:43 nobody coming in and out of there except on an emergency

19:39:43 basis.

19:39:45 The other thing we have agreed to do and that is

19:39:49 incorporated into the sheet is to restrict construction

19:39:50 traffic.

19:39:52 Some of the people that came to the community meeting

19:39:55 were concerned about the construction traffic.

19:39:59 This past summer there was a construction project done

19:40:05 where they added a patio area outside the cafeteria and

19:40:12 apparently there was impact to the neighbors on Palmyra

19:40:17 with the construction traffic.

19:40:21 Remove the materials from the ROTC building and what will

19:40:22 happen is we will move the fence.

19:40:26 Install a temporary fence at the property line and

19:40:30 completely closed you have from any construction traffic.

19:40:33 Nothing going in and out of there during construction.

19:40:35 We think with all of these additional mitigation

19:40:39 techniques that the individuals that own property an

19:40:44 Palmyra will have less impact than they do right now and

19:40:47 won't have any traffic going in and out of the gate and

19:40:49 have enhanced landscaping noon and parking in that area

19:40:52 back there.

19:40:54 Next I would like to address code compliance.

19:40:56 When you evaluate that you have to determine whether or

19:40:58 not it complies with the code.

19:41:00 And you heard from your staff, they walked you through

19:41:04 the criteria for schools under 27-272.

19:41:07 And they have found that it meets each and every one of

19:41:08 those criteria.

19:41:12 And I want to point out, Mr. Dingfelder, because I think

19:41:15 you had a question about waivers, that we are not

19:41:17 requesting any waivers with this -- with this

19:41:17 application.

19:41:21 We meet all the criteria in 27-272, and in addition,

19:41:24 there are some criteria, some general standards in

19:41:26 27-269.

19:41:28 And at this point, I would like to have Lorraine

19:41:34 Duffy-Suarez come up and testify as to our application's

19:41:36 compliance with the general standards you have for

19:41:36 special uses.

19:41:39 As some of you may know Lorraine has her Master's Degree

19:41:40 in planning.

19:41:42 She also is an AICP.

19:41:46 And she has been qualified for an expert in court

19:41:46 previously.

19:41:50 So I would like for her to come forward and testify

19:41:53 regarding the general standards and testify as an expert

19:41:54 witness.

19:41:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, just in regard to that,

19:41:57 Gina.

19:42:01 The reason I had inquired with our staff about the waiver

19:42:05 issue is I believe your earlier petition spoke to a

19:42:08 waiver to allow for an additional 93 students and 18

19:42:11 parking spaces as a waiver.

19:42:15 And I was looking at an old -- an older petition.

19:42:17 I was pleased to see that your newer petition that we are

19:42:20 dealing with tonight right now does not include those

19:42:21 waivers.

19:42:25 But that was my -- my confusion.

19:42:26 But thank you.

19:42:28 >> Okay.

19:42:30 >> Good evening, Councilmembers.

19:42:32 Lorraine Duffy-Suarez.

19:42:35 The school district's general manager for Growth

19:42:36 Management and planning.

19:42:38 I was sworn in.

19:42:40 As Gina mentioned I am going to testify to you about the

19:42:43 general standards contained in Chapter 27-269 and their

19:42:47 applicability to this particular petition.

19:42:50 Now the first standard in that show the use will ensure

19:42:54 the public health, safety and general welfare if located

19:42:57 where proposed and operated and developed according to

19:42:58 the plan submitted.

19:43:00 With regard to that I think what you have heard is the

19:43:04 plan is to remove 10 portable classrooms and replace them

19:43:09 with 16 permanent -- permanent building with 16

19:43:10 classrooms.

19:43:15 From a security standpoint, storms, portable classrooms

19:43:19 while safe, they do require evacuation during certain

19:43:20 storm events.

19:43:23 A permanent building is more desirable and the district

19:43:26 has been doing everything in our power to remove portable

19:43:29 classrooms and have more secure facilities for our

19:43:32 students with respects to public health and safety.

19:43:35 General welfare.

19:43:38 As you know, class size reduction amendment was passed by

19:43:39 the community.

19:43:43 And we are trying to attempt to comply with that by

19:43:45 building the classroom space that is needed.

19:43:50 We would be permitted to use portable classrooms to meet

19:43:59 that -- may I finish or -- two seconds, three minutes,

19:44:00 two minutes maybe, maybe.

19:44:01 Two minutes.

19:44:01 Two minutes.

19:44:04 You know my timing.

19:44:06 I speak fast.

19:44:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I will give you a minute.

19:44:09 >> I will do it in a minute, sir.

19:44:12 That the uses -- special use in the district as proposed

19:44:16 locates complies with required regulations and standards.

19:44:17 Yes, we do.

19:44:19 We comply with all regulations and all standards.

19:44:21 We are not asking for any waivers.

19:44:24 The school -- the requested use is compatible.

19:44:28 Schools as Gina mentioned are the cornerstone of our

19:44:29 community.

19:44:32 The interlocal agreement we have signed with you says as

19:44:34 much as well as your comprehensive plan.

19:44:37 Encourages the placement of schools in neighborhoods.

19:44:42 Plant High School was there prior to the neighborhood in

19:44:43 fact.

19:44:46 Number four talks about the uses in conforming with the

19:44:47 comprehensive plan.

19:44:50 Section 9 of the interlocal agreement specifies that,

19:44:53 that any existing use it in conformity with your

19:44:56 comprehensive plan and this number 5 says the use shall

19:44:59 not establish a precedent or encourage more intensive

19:45:01 incompatibility uses.

19:45:03 That is not the case.

19:45:06 The public high school has been there for 90 years.

19:45:09 It does not encourage more intense development.

19:45:11 It has been an asset to the community and has supported

19:45:17 the residential community for all these many years.

19:45:19 I think we are in full compliance with Chapter 27-269.

19:45:26 I can answer any questions.

19:45:27 >> Mr. Chairman, I know we are close to our time limit

19:45:30 for 15 minutes for our initial presentation and I know a

19:45:33 lot of people in opposition, would it be acceptable if I

19:45:36 save the rest of my testimony for some of the rebuttal

19:45:37 time?

19:45:39 I anticipate with the number of people here that I am

19:45:41 going to need more than five minutes --

19:45:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Your time is up.

19:45:44 You concluded.

19:45:49 You have five-minute rebuttal.

19:45:52 >> Right Scots Scott we will take public testimony and

19:45:54 five minutes to rebut after that.

19:45:57 >> Hopefully I am wrong about this, but I anticipate with

19:45:59 the number of people here who may speak in Op

19:46:01 constitution that it will take longer than five minutes

19:46:03 for me to be able to rebut for all of the points that

19:46:05 they make.

19:46:06 So if that's okay --

19:46:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: When we come to that, we will take that

19:46:09 up.

19:46:10 If that's fair enough.

19:46:12 >> Let me close up just dealing with the parking issue

19:46:13 because it is important.

19:46:15 I think you will hear a lot of comments about that.

19:46:20 And this is what you have parking requirements in your

19:46:21 city code.

19:46:25 There are parking requirements in the SREF, the state

19:46:27 requirement for educational facilities.

19:46:30 The building code.

19:46:35 Pursuant to the state law that was mentioned earlier,

19:46:39 what it provides is standards and conditions may not be

19:46:41 imposed which conflict with those established in this

19:46:43 chapter or the Florida building code.

19:46:49 So we are governed strictly by the SREF parking

19:46:49 requirements.

19:46:53 The SREF parking requirements for the site require 318

19:46:55 parking spaces.

19:46:58 On-site we have 473 parking spaces.

19:47:01 So under the SREF, we have an excess of 155 parking

19:47:03 spaces.

19:47:05 Even though we are not subject to the City of Tampa

19:47:09 parking standards, we went ahead did the calculation

19:47:13 under the city standards and the city standards would

19:47:16 require approximately 456 spaces.

19:47:19 Even under the city standards that are not applicable to

19:47:23 the school board by statute, we would still have an

19:47:27 excess of 17 parking spaces.

19:47:29 I know that some of residents may bring up parking

19:47:30 issues.

19:47:33 I can only tell that you parking enforcement occurs by

19:47:36 the administration on -- on an everyday basis.

19:47:37 They do the best they can.

19:47:40 You are never going to get 100% compliance.

19:47:43 Most of the streets in the area have the no parking signs

19:47:46 that are -- are erected either by the city or the

19:47:49 5-minute signs that are erected by individual property

19:47:52 owners but one thing I want to mention is not all

19:47:55 students necessarily want to park on-site.

19:47:59 Not an issue whether or not there is sufficient parking

19:48:00 spaces on-site.

19:48:03 Some students who exercise freedom of choice decide to

19:48:06 park on the street where they are permitted to park, and

19:48:07 they are allowed to do so.

19:48:10 We can't mandate that they park on the school site.

19:48:12 We have a situation where there may be individuals who do

19:48:17 not want to park on the school site, and Arizona this

19:48:19 council told me in another case I had in front of you

19:48:21 dealing with a vacating that the streets are held in

19:48:24 trust for the public, and if the streets are not intended

19:48:27 for the exclusive use of the individuals that reside on

19:48:28 those streets.

19:48:31 You told me that when you denied a vacating petition

19:48:33 where I had a similar situation where you had adjacent

19:48:37 intensive use that was parking all up and down the

19:48:40 residential streets and the residents wanted to vacate

19:48:42 the streets and reserve them for their own exclusive use,

19:48:45 and you were -- I was told by you that that was not

19:48:47 appropriate because they are held in trust for the

19:48:50 public.

19:48:53 And there are -- we are not going to deny there are

19:48:54 impacts as a result of this school.

19:48:57 Those impacts are very short term in the morning, very

19:48:59 early and in the afternoon.

19:49:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Miss Grimes, you need to wrap -- bring

19:49:02 to close.

19:49:04 Your time is over.

19:49:04 >> Okay.

19:49:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And council has some questions.

19:49:08 >> I think what you are going to see there is a trade-off

19:49:11 between the benefit and convenience of the school in the

19:49:14 short term temporary impacts that occur every day during

19:49:18 drop off and when school is over.

19:49:21 But that is something that I think most residents would

19:49:24 tell you is worth the inconvenience because of the

19:49:27 benefits that Plant High School provides not just to

19:49:29 their neighborhood but to their property value.

19:49:32 And so with that I will wait and provide the rest of my

19:49:34 testimony on rebuttal.

19:49:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.

19:49:39 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a question for miss Duffy as far

19:49:42 as -- miss Grimes, actually now I have a question for you

19:49:46 regarding the parking since you know our code so well.

19:49:51 What -- are those parking requirements based on how many

19:49:54 -- the population of the school?

19:49:54 >> Yes.

19:49:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.

19:50:00 So then my question -- and I -- I have a graduate of

19:50:04 plant and potential student will probably go there.

19:50:08 And so I -- I know all about -- although we can't afford

19:50:11 to buy our kids a car, so we have to be in the parking

19:50:15 line all the time.

19:50:19 What -- what -- are these figures correct?

19:50:24 There is a letter we got I think just today from the

19:50:30 Palma Ceia neighborhood association that said in 2005,

19:50:38 there was 1984 students at plant and now 2398, so 400 new

19:50:43 students.

19:50:48 >> 2398 is the permanent capacity that will exist after

19:50:48 the addition.

19:50:53 Currently as to the 40th day of this year there were 2307

19:50:55 students attending Plant.

19:50:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Still around --

19:50:59 >> Enough your package of materials the historical

19:51:02 attendance figures for Plant High School.

19:51:06 And the 2300 -- the approximately 2300 stud who attend

19:51:09 Plant right now is not the highest attendance figures

19:51:11 that have ever occurred at Plant High School.

19:51:16 Back in the early '70s before Jefferson open they had

19:51:17 approximately 2600 students that attended.

19:51:21 >>MARY MULHERN: That was addressed by opening schools.

19:51:22 >> Correct.

19:51:25 This really --

19:51:27 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm anticipating what we are going to

19:51:32 hear from the neighborhood, but, I mean there are isn't

19:51:38 really our prerogative at all, but I think that is where

19:51:40 part of the problem stems from.

19:51:43 How -- how do you account for so many more students

19:51:44 there.

19:51:48 And this is a question for you, miss Duffy-Suarez.

19:51:48 [Applause]

19:51:53 Because that's what creates the need for more parking

19:51:56 spaces and that is what is creating the opposition.

19:51:59 So I am asking someone from the schools to answer this

19:51:59 question.

19:52:05 I don't know if -- what accounts for the fact that we

19:52:13 have got 400 more students in the last four years?

19:52:15 >> You mean why are there that many more.

19:52:17 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, why.

19:52:20 South Tampa is pretty much built out, and that district

19:52:24 it seems odd there are so many students.

19:52:25 >> I am rob Nelson.

19:52:27 The principal of Plant High School.

19:52:28 Thank you for having us here tonight.

19:52:31 The increase in students at Plant High School is due to

19:52:32 the private school numbers.

19:52:34 We have a large number of private schools in the area.

19:52:38 Probably when the school was around 1900 to 2,000,

19:52:41 probably averaged about 80 private school students a

19:52:42 year.

19:52:44 The two previous years have gotten approximately 100 to

19:52:47 150 private school students.

19:52:50 I got 100 private school students last year.

19:52:53 Part of it I feel my staff does a great job in educating

19:52:54 our kids.

19:52:56 Our kids go to the top Universities in the nation and

19:52:58 part of it is the economy.

19:52:59 Students -- the parents --

19:53:02 >>MARY MULHERN: You are saying 200 of those 400 are

19:53:04 coming from private schools.

19:53:07 >> I have probably gotten approximately --

19:53:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Do they live within the district, that

19:53:11 is the other question.

19:53:13 >> Absolutely, I continue --

19:53:13 [Applause]

19:53:17 >> The process of enrollment in Plant High School follow

19:53:21 all policies and the ones that are questioning are ones

19:53:24 that we don't feel are being truthful that my

19:53:27 administration -- I go anywhere from checking addresses.

19:53:29 I sent school security.

19:53:32 I checked addresses on multiple occasions just to make

19:53:34 sure obviously that students are living within the

19:53:35 district.

19:53:39 Am I naive to think that some families are not being

19:53:42 truthful about their students and address going to Plant

19:53:42 High School?

19:53:45 Absolutely not, but I continue to enforce that on a

19:53:50 constant basis and welcome any information on any student

19:53:52 not being truthful in a matter.

19:53:53 >>MARY MULHERN: It is tough.

19:53:57 I know you are in a tough position and hard to do that

19:53:58 investigation and enforcement.

19:54:01 I know with my experience with Plant, I knew a lot of

19:54:04 students who did not live in the district and did go to

19:54:07 the school, and I would never turn them in, and neither

19:54:09 would my daughter would have wanted to do that.

19:54:10 So that is the problem.

19:54:16 >> Anonymous or not, I look into the anonymous ones.

19:54:19 >>MARY MULHERN: A school district responsibility to

19:54:21 build up the other schools so they have the kind of

19:54:24 reputation that Plant has so if we have --

19:54:24 [Applause]

19:54:27 -- [sounding gavel]

19:54:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mrs. Refrain -- excuse me for a second.

19:54:35 If you refrain the applause, I would appreciate that very

19:54:35 much.

19:54:37 >>MARY MULHERN: So many students who are either moving

19:54:41 into the district or going there, you know, having an

19:54:43 address of a relative.

19:54:44 I know that is pretty common.

19:54:45 And this isn't for you.

19:54:48 You are obviously doing a great job at Plant.

19:54:48 >> Yes, ma'am.

19:54:50 >>MARY MULHERN: But I think these are real concerns, and

19:54:53 I am sorry, I don't think City Council can be much help

19:54:55 with any of this, but they are real concerns.

19:54:58 And I would like to see the school -- the school district

19:54:59 do more about it.

19:55:05 But I also think the parking problem in Tampa.

19:55:08 This is interesting to me too, Miss Grimes.

19:55:11 Explain this to me because I thought -- and I just heard

19:55:15 this recently that anyone can request one of those no

19:55:18 parking signs.

19:55:22 So really literally you can prevent anyone from parking

19:55:25 in front of your house.

19:55:27 >> That is exactly what has happened in the neighborhood

19:55:27 too.

19:55:30 I do have a parking diagram I was going to share on

19:55:30 rebuttal.

19:55:34 I can share with you right now, but I can show you

19:55:37 exactly all -- where all the streets are located adjacent

19:55:41 to the school where there are already no parking.

19:55:43 And some of them -- most of the streets -- all the

19:55:48 streets identified in -- in pink have no parking or

19:55:50 five-minute parking.

19:55:53 So most of the streets in and around Plant.

19:55:58 The ones identified with green you can park on -- park

19:56:02 usually on one side the street, but even that is spotty

19:56:04 because even though there are no signs that say no

19:56:08 parking between 8 and 5, there may be an individual home

19:56:11 with a 5-minute parking sign so you can't park in front

19:56:11 of that house.

19:56:15 And I have pictures -- I know Mr. Scott does not want me

19:56:18 to go past my time here, but I have pictures showing the

19:56:22 signs and the streets where the parking occurs, and I --

19:56:27 I can assure you that it is not as extensive as -- as you

19:56:30 might hear that it is.

19:56:31 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.

19:56:33 >> I also live in the neighborhood.

19:56:36 I drive these streets every single day.

19:56:38 I even recognize some of the cars that park on the

19:56:39 streets on a regular basis.

19:56:43 And I know where the cars park, and I know where they

19:56:43 don't park.

19:56:46 As I said earlier, sometimes there are problems with

19:56:49 students that don't -- that park where they shouldn't be

19:56:52 parked, but for the most part, most of the students

19:56:56 comply with the no parking signs.

19:56:56 >>MARY MULHERN: Thanks.

19:57:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just -- in regards to your

19:57:03 question, and I think it has been answered.

19:57:06 Part of the problem is given the economy, a lot of the

19:57:09 private schools have lost a lot of students going back to

19:57:13 the public schools that will account for the

19:57:13 overcrowding.

19:57:16 Plant is not the only High School that have overcrowding.

19:57:19 A lot more that has overcrowding.

19:57:20 An ongoing issue.

19:57:24 We are talking -- what is Hillsborough, the 12th largest

19:57:25 school district in the nation?

19:57:27 The 8th?

19:57:28 The 8th now.

19:57:30 You are talking about the largest, the 8th largest school

19:57:32 district in the nation.

19:57:36 So anyway, what we need to do -- you had a question

19:57:39 councilman?

19:57:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.

19:57:42 I don't know Miss Grimes or perhaps our staff.

19:57:47 On your note, it speaks to these SREF -- I don't know

19:57:49 what that stands for -- state --

19:57:53 >> State requirements for educational facilities.

19:57:55 A chapter of the Florida building code and in your

19:57:56 package of materials.

19:57:57 >> The standard parking requirement.

19:58:00 And I just want to make this real clear because this is a

19:58:01 state requirement.

19:58:08 It is a weird or strange requirement or -- I hate to even

19:58:13 call it a requirement but under number 5, it says the

19:58:20 state requirement one space per every 10th, 11th and 12th

19:58:21 grader.

19:58:22 >> Right.

19:58:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And that is going to assume that your

19:58:31 -- the 9th and 10th graders get dropped off and every one

19:58:36 out of every 11th and 12th grader is parking and driving

19:58:37 there.

19:58:40 I am not saying this is Plant's fault, I am saying --

19:58:43 especially in the Plant environment, I would say this is

19:58:46 an unrealistic requirement.

19:58:49 >> What is the basis of that?

19:58:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am sorry?

19:58:54 >> What is the basis for that?

19:58:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Personal observation just like you

19:59:00 because -- I think we all know for a fact that a lot more

19:59:05 than one out of every ten 11th graders and 12th graders

19:59:05 drive.

19:59:07 >> I don't --

19:59:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This is anecdotal and you and I could

19:59:14 argue about it all night, Miss Grimes, which we won't.

19:59:17 But I want to point that out because this is not Plant's

19:59:20 fault this is the, quote, requirement.

19:59:22 They call it a requirement.

19:59:24 >> It is a requirement.

19:59:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I know.

19:59:29 >> In addition to the student parking, you -- I don't

19:59:31 know if you saw this, there is also a requirement for one

19:59:33 space for every staff member.

19:59:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I saw that.

19:59:36 >> Under SREF.

19:59:39 And in addition to that, you have one space, a visitor

19:59:42 space, one for every 100 students.

19:59:45 So that's where we came up with the requirement of 318

19:59:46 spaces.

19:59:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a feeling if I asked Mr.

19:59:51 Nelson to come up -- back up again and give a candid

19:59:55 appraisal of how many -- what percentage of his 11th and

19:59:58 12th graders drive, I think it will be more than 10%.

20:00:02 I won't do that tonight because frankly it is irrelevant.

20:00:05 The state standard is what the state standard is.

20:00:06 >> You are right.

20:00:06 You are right.

20:00:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We will take public comment.

20:00:12 Let me just say to the public that we are limited.

20:00:15 Council is limited.

20:00:20 The attorney Miss Cole tried to advise us earlier what we

20:00:22 can and what we can not do.

20:00:27 And it is not -- basically -- accord to the Florida

20:00:30 statute, we can only impose reasonable conditions based

20:00:33 on the expansion as we have been told.

20:00:38 And, of course, I was told something else too, but -- I

20:00:41 will keep the record pure.

20:00:47 So I want to say to the public as you come forth, you

20:00:51 want to keep your comments focused on -- on what's being

20:00:54 presented here today.

20:00:57 To wander off into other areas that we don't have any

20:01:00 jurisdiction does not help you or us tonight.

20:01:02 I am just being very candid.

20:01:03 We are very limited.

20:01:04 We are very limited.

20:01:06 In fact I raised a question to our attorney.

20:01:09 I don't even know why we are hearing this other than the

20:01:14 fact that the legislature says that -- that we got to do

20:01:14 it.

20:01:15 We got to hear it.

20:01:20 But you can't do much under the limited conditions.

20:01:21 Okay.

20:01:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, just for procedurally,

20:01:26 there seems to be a lot of folks that did want to speak

20:01:26 tonight.

20:01:30 We usually have three minutes which we will -- will take

20:01:33 us into 3:00 in the morning which I don't think that

20:01:33 anybody wants.

20:01:37 Normally I think sometimes we suggest one minute per

20:01:40 person and see how that goes; however, with that -- with

20:01:43 the -- I would suggest that with the exception of Mr.

20:01:46 Catalano and his family as well as the other family that

20:01:49 directly abut the property.

20:01:53 I think they probably deserve the full three minutes.

20:01:56 Because they are in an unusual situation.

20:02:00 And if Miss Grimes didn't have any objection to that, I

20:02:02 think that might be an appropriate procedure.

20:02:05 >> I might expand that and say anyone who is within the

20:02:06 noticed area.

20:02:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Noticed area is 100 families because

20:02:12 they noticed all the way around the school.

20:02:14 >> Well, I would -- I would not --

20:02:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I looked at the list.

20:02:18 >> I would not want to abridge anybody's right to be

20:02:24 heard, but I would suggest rather than be repetitive to

20:02:26 to focus and maybe not necessarily use the full three

20:02:31 minutes, but to -- not knowing what individuals's

20:02:37 standings is and I wouldn't want to create a problem

20:02:39 procedurally in terms of due process.

20:02:42 I just want to make sure for the record that we don't

20:02:44 impinge upon somebody's right by giving somebody three

20:02:46 minutes and somebody one minute not knowing what their

20:02:49 individual situations are.

20:02:50 So.

20:02:53 I just raise that.

20:02:55 >> My suggestion, Mr. Chairman, would be to say that --

20:03:02 that in order to expedite things, people are not people

20:03:05 have no need to use their full three minute even after

20:03:07 this machine they get 3 minutes and 30 seconds as you

20:03:07 know.

20:03:10 It gives you an extra 30 seconds on top of that that adds

20:03:12 even more time.

20:03:14 And the other thing is that they cut to the chase and

20:03:19 talk about only those issues that are relevant and if

20:03:22 they talk about things that are not, Mr. Chairman, you

20:03:23 can expedite.

20:03:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My suggestion would be we give everybody

20:03:27 two minutes which will end up being two and a half

20:03:32 minutes really.

20:03:34 Is that okay with council?

20:03:37 Those who want to address council may come forward.

20:03:42 Those who are for, support, come to my left, your right.

20:03:45 Those in opposition Dom my right and your left.

20:03:49 If you are in opposition, you may line up on the wall on

20:03:50 my right.

20:03:55 If you were in opposition.

20:04:04 If you are in opposition.

20:04:08 If you are in favor and support you are on my left on the

20:04:08 wall.

20:04:11 If you are in support and you are going to speak, you

20:04:17 will line up now to my left.

20:04:20 You have two minutes.

20:04:27 Okay.

20:04:33 >> Good evening, Nathan Powell, President of the Palma

20:04:35 ceia neighborhood association.

20:04:39 During the past month there were three meetings with the

20:04:41 proposed expansion of Plant High School.

20:04:44 Each of these meetings were attended by numerous families

20:04:46 throughout the neighborhood who were routinely affected

20:04:50 by the overcrowding situation, ie parked cars and high

20:04:51 volume of traffic.

20:04:53 At the end of these meetings, we took a vote on whether

20:04:57 or not the neighborhood association is for or against the

20:05:00 variance request and by unanimous vote, the neighborhood

20:05:02 is opposed to is this variance request.

20:05:05 Over the past decade, Plant has continued to expand its

20:05:07 student population.

20:05:10 The school and the school board is well aware -- well

20:05:14 aware of the policy and neighborhood association years of

20:05:17 frustration that has not remedied the problems nor

20:05:20 proposed a remedy in this variance request.

20:05:22 We have several of our neighbors here tonight who will

20:05:25 give their individual points of view for your

20:05:29 consideration and conclusion of the Palma ceia

20:05:32 neighborhood association respectfully requests that this

20:05:34 petition be denied.

20:05:38 Thank you.

20:05:40 >> Good evening.

20:05:44 I am a senior at Plant High School and I have been sworn

20:05:45 in.

20:05:48 My job is to give a student's view on the problem with

20:05:49 the portables.

20:05:52 I don't know if any of you saw the weather today.

20:05:52 It was raining.

20:05:54 I got to class and I was wet.

20:05:58 It was definitely an inconvenience.

20:06:02 In addition to that, -- I have two APs in the portable, a

20:06:06 full AP load right now, and I get to class in 4th period

20:06:10 late every day because such a far walk compared to my

20:06:11 other classes.

20:06:15 And any time there is a tornado watch, we have to go to

20:06:17 the cafeteria where nothing gets done.

20:06:20 I can't control my class load then.

20:06:23 I feel like I lag behind and I know that a lot of other

20:06:25 students share my point of view, and so I think that

20:06:31 adding an addition that will be closer and covered would

20:06:34 convenience all the students at Plant.

20:06:37 It will not add any students but just convenience us.

20:06:41 Thank you.

20:06:42 >> -- Catalano.

20:06:48 3701 West Palmyra and I have been sworn.

20:06:50 I looked at your agenda and you do a lot of work and I

20:06:52 appreciate you being here.

20:06:54 I don't know how much people know what you do.

20:06:57 I also appreciate the school board represented here.

20:06:59 They got $100 million grant.

20:07:02 If I had $100 million, I wouldn't be here.

20:07:06 [Laughter]

20:07:09 Can I get the overhead.

20:07:11 We have heard our name mentioned a few time.

20:07:13 Let me assure you we don't have that kind of clout.

20:07:15 They are here for a reason.

20:07:17 They are here because it is a special use.

20:07:20 And I appreciate the process of the special use as

20:07:22 applied to schools because schools do impact

20:07:25 neighborhoods in positive and negative ways.

20:07:27 We are just here to talk about a couple of negative ways.

20:07:29 The yellow box is our house.

20:07:31 The pink is the addition.

20:07:35 The school board representatives worked with us in

20:07:38 amazing ways to do these mitigation factors.

20:07:43 It is not that the school board is doing this out of the

20:07:46 goodness of their heart, it is just the way you work with

20:07:49 neighbors -- just like I would do a neighbor.

20:07:53 And I do appreciate it, but I am a little bothered when I

20:07:55 see someone who is Heralded as a planner and master of

20:07:59 science and planning and what have you saying things as

20:08:04 sophomoric as the school was there first.

20:08:07 Until you get the special use that you -- that is the

20:08:09 kind of fire wall we would get.

20:08:10 The school was not here first.

20:08:12 Certainly not in its configuration.

20:08:15 As the school has expanded, more of the burden is put on

20:08:17 neighborhood and that's what we are here to talk about.

20:08:20 The school has gone out of their way to put in a buffer

20:08:20 system.

20:08:22 They have gone out of their way to close a gate that

20:08:26 probably shouldn't have been used on the Special Use 2

20:08:30 criteria, is an arterial and collector road nearby.

20:08:33 They answered yes, Dale Mabry.

20:08:36 Therefore Sterling should not be used and they did close

20:08:36 it.

20:08:38 They said if needed for emergency use and they will mark

20:08:40 it emergency use only.

20:08:42 That is on the record and we appreciate that very much,

20:08:45 but you are not limited to what you can do on a special

20:08:45 use.

20:08:47 You can deny it.

20:08:49 And I think that should be -- that should be made known.

20:08:52 You are limited on what you can do as far as criteria,

20:08:54 but you can deny this special use, and that's why they

20:08:56 are accommodating us.

20:09:00 We have asked for one tiny thing, and is obscured glass

20:09:03 in the bottom row of the second-floor window.

20:09:05 Those trees they are showing you are not our trees.

20:09:07 They are on the school's property now.

20:09:09 Used to be right-of-way but it is on the school's

20:09:09 property.

20:09:15 It is scraggly and disgusting and on a decline.

20:09:17 We can't count on them for a buffer.

20:09:20 We are asking for obscured glass in the bottom row of the

20:09:23 second floor only.

20:09:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Sir.

20:09:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to say I love it when

20:09:32 someone comes with a very specific solution to a problem.

20:09:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, thank you.

20:09:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Could stop some of the daydreaming

20:09:39 too.

20:09:43 >> Hi, my name is Vicky Reed, and I back up to the old

20:09:46 wing that was built many years ago.

20:09:52 And I -- I wanted to stand in the middle because I am for

20:09:57 the traffic being resolved and I really like what the

20:10:01 school board says they are going to do with that wing

20:10:03 because they didn't show you there is going to be any of

20:10:06 these off the side of the school that is going to flood

20:10:08 those people's yards.

20:10:12 If it rains hard, this is -- there are about eight of

20:10:13 these on the side the school.

20:10:15 It floods our back yard.

20:10:18 So the school board when they put the wing that is behind

20:10:21 us, it is like we are in a fish bowl.

20:10:22 It is all windows.

20:10:25 About eight of these.

20:10:29 And it is just -- I can't -- I came first to support my

20:10:32 neighbors because I said I wouldn't want anybody to have

20:10:34 to put up with what we have got.

20:10:43 And there is about four of us that have this and then I

20:10:44 had to step to the other side because I think the school

20:10:48 board will do a very nice job for these people, but it is

20:10:49 a little late for us.

20:10:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What is your address, ma'am?

20:10:58 >> 3613 we are dead in the middle of the new wing -- I

20:10:59 mean the old wing.

20:11:01 I want to stay on both sides.

20:11:02 I want something done with the traffic.

20:11:08 I hope this doesn't create more traffic, but I think --

20:11:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If we can stop with the cell phones if

20:11:12 you don't mind please.

20:11:14 Put them on vibrate or turn them off.

20:11:16 Thank you.

20:11:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman.

20:11:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.

20:11:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: May I ask -- are you currently

20:11:23 experiencing flooding on your property?

20:11:25 >> The rain drains they put on the side of the schools,

20:11:29 it rains really hard for a few days, the water runs out

20:11:33 of the alleyway into our yard and causes what we call a

20:11:39 swimming pool effect.

20:11:42 I have been over to the school and asked them if they

20:11:45 could do something about it and they said they would look

20:11:47 into it but it is still the same way.

20:11:50 And with the number of windows on the side of the school.

20:11:52 Like I said, you are a prisoner of your yard.

20:11:55 You can't go out in your yard when school is going on

20:11:56 because there are so many windows.

20:12:00 And the only buffers we have are -- I kept my shrubs.

20:12:08 Everybody else has theirs down.

20:12:11 And I think there needs to be more of that so we are not

20:12:13 as exposed as we are.

20:12:15 I want to stand in the middle because I want to support

20:12:17 them, but I think we are getting punished too.

20:12:22 So that's why we were afraid with what Plant was going to

20:12:22 do.

20:12:24 That is what I have to say.

20:12:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

20:12:35 >> I am gay Anne Catalano and I live.

20:12:38 Just for the record I have been sworn in and I would like

20:12:40 to clarify something that has been stated.

20:12:43 I feel like these supreme done their job very well but

20:12:46 they fail to mention in the muni code the reason they

20:12:52 have to have a Special Use Permit when it encroaches on a

20:12:53 neighborhood.

20:12:55 You have the ability to deny this.

20:12:57 And I am not sure why they didn't tell you that.

20:13:01 Also when Gina showed you the picture of the tree line, I

20:13:05 know you noticed our swimming pool, so evidently, it is

20:13:07 not as thick as they would like to you think.

20:13:09 And all we are asking for -- because we know you are

20:13:11 going to approve it without a doubt because for some

20:13:17 reason you can't go outside that box.

20:13:22 But is to have them install a secure glass and have them

20:13:24 install a better barrier.

20:13:26 A question on that 14-foot oak.

20:13:29 Once it is planted in the ground or when it is in the

20:13:38 container are they 14 feet sitting above ground.

20:13:41 Henry Hick's issue.

20:13:42 The neighbor with the lights.

20:13:45 Will we have light in our bedroom windows?

20:13:47 Are we going to have those issues?

20:13:51 You said Miss Saul-Sena that you are here to protect the

20:13:52 neighbor.

20:13:54 That is just one and there are several of us.

20:13:57 We wish you would take it in consideration to either have

20:14:01 a continuance on this or at least insist they put secure

20:14:03 windows in, work on the lighting and work with the

20:14:08 neighbors to create a better situation for both parties.

20:14:08 Thank you.

20:14:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Maybe when the school representative

20:14:13 comes she can address some of those on rebuttal.

20:14:16 Miss Grimes will address some of those on rebuttal.

20:14:16 >> Okay.

20:14:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, ma'am, very much.

20:14:22 Miss Cole.

20:14:25 You may not want to answer this on the record, but, you

20:14:28 know, I want to be clear so -- when people come up and

20:14:35 tell me that we can deny this --

20:14:37 >>JULIA COLE: You are not reviewing this is the same

20:14:40 context as the Special Use Permit.

20:14:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I wanted you to explain that.

20:14:45 >>JULIA COLE: This is the general process for these kind

20:14:48 of applications, but Florida statutes limits your review

20:14:53 to place reasonable development standards and conditions

20:14:55 on the expansion only.

20:14:58 My opinion, you wouldn't have the authority to deny the

20:14:59 Special Use Permit.

20:15:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I just wanted you to say that on the

20:15:06 record to these people because they keep coming up and I

20:15:08 don't want people to get any -- leave here with some

20:15:12 false hope or some impression that we have all this

20:15:14 authority when we are limited by the state law.

20:15:17 And that's why I had Miss Cole come and speak to that on

20:15:18 the record.

20:15:19 Okay.

20:15:22 Next speaker.

20:15:24 >> Good evening, Councilmembers.

20:15:25 Thank you very much.

20:15:26 Michelle Shimberg.

20:15:28 I live at 3214 Fountain Boulevard.

20:15:30 And I have been sworn in.

20:15:34 I am the parent of two current Plant High School students

20:15:37 and also serve as the PTA President.

20:15:39 I am here representing my family's views and our support

20:15:41 of this project.

20:15:45 We urge to you support the request to replace the

20:15:49 temporary portables that are present on Plant's campus

20:15:50 with 16 permanent classrooms.

20:15:53 You heard about the reasons we need to replace those.

20:15:55 They are unsightly, they are unsafe, and they are

20:15:58 inconvenient for students.

20:16:01 I have students each day who are inconvenienced if there

20:16:05 is weather, if there is threat of weather.

20:16:06 Learning stops.

20:16:08 And the reason that Plant High School attracts the kind

20:16:10 of families that we attract is because of our outstanding

20:16:13 academic reputation.

20:16:13 It is stellar.

20:16:15 People move into this district.

20:16:17 They buy homes in this district and property values are

20:16:20 positively impacted because of Plant's outstanding

20:16:21 reputation.

20:16:23 When learning stops because of weather conditions in

20:16:24 Florida, that's a problem.

20:16:28 So I encourage you strongly to consider that.

20:16:32 Plant's proposal is designed to serve our current student

20:16:35 population, not to add or open boundaries for additional

20:16:39 students and not approving this request would actually be

20:16:42 a tremendous loss for our current Plant students.

20:16:44 The strong traditions of our school are well known

20:16:46 throughout our community.

20:16:49 The academic, athletic and artistic excellence bring

20:16:53 many, many accolades to South Tampa and I urge you to

20:16:56 support the request to build a classroom addition to

20:16:59 house our current Plant students and continue the strong

20:17:00 panther tradition.

20:17:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

20:17:04 >> I would also like to ask members in the audience that

20:17:06 are here.

20:17:08 In the interest of your time, if they are in support of

20:17:13 this request if they would stand at this moment that it

20:17:14 would be more timely for you.

20:17:17 Thank you.

20:17:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

20:17:28 >> My name is James Osman.

20:17:30 I am directly affected by the building and I am also

20:17:31 sworn in.

20:17:34 I am against it, of course.

20:17:39 I think mainly I don't trust their answers.

20:17:42 In the 25 years I have lived there, they haven't been

20:17:46 very truthful with us, either about their -- no matter

20:17:49 what the plans are over there, what they are going to

20:17:51 build, what they are going to do.

20:17:55 If there is a negative rumor about -- it has been 99% of

20:17:58 the time that negative rumor is true about what their

20:18:00 intentions are.

20:18:01 They are not open.

20:18:03 They don't us what is going on.

20:18:06 ICS explain to you about that -- I can explain to you

20:18:09 what that parking lot brought up a couple of times at the

20:18:12 end of Sterling that they used that exception to open

20:18:13 parking to their teachers.

20:18:17 I have been lied to by the principal about what has

20:18:19 happened there and how many responses they have been

20:18:20 getting.

20:18:21 I think it is wrong.

20:18:23 I think the numbers they are giving you are wrong about

20:18:26 who is at that school, the students going there.

20:18:29 I think it is very deceptive.

20:18:32 I had two sons who went there and graduated also, and one

20:18:35 of the biggest jokes in the world was how many hardship

20:18:38 cases are there and they drive a car.

20:18:41 If that isn't a contradiction, I don't know what is.

20:18:44 It is like with the school board, it is like we get

20:18:47 money, let's make Plant bigger.

20:18:50 Have they thought of any other recourse to make this

20:18:52 happen other than building that addition?

20:18:55 And what I mean by that is, we know that Jefferson and

20:18:58 Robinson are underutilized schools.

20:19:05 We also know that the boundaries drawn for Plant are very

20:19:08 meticulously drawn.

20:19:11 Some people call it gerrymandering so certain

20:19:14 neighborhoods and certain people get included in that

20:19:15 school.

20:19:17 Those numbers are included in the student population of

20:19:18 Plant.

20:19:21 How about the freshman year.

20:19:24 How come Plant have to have a freshman class.

20:19:26 They didn't used to have one.

20:19:29 Get rid of the freshman class and let them go somewhere

20:19:29 else.

20:19:30 There are your numbers.

20:19:33 Two things I could mention that wouldn't cost the school

20:19:35 board anything and all they would have to do is make a

20:19:37 hard decision about themselves, be honest, and cut off

20:19:39 the students who don't belong there.

20:19:42 And there are too many of them going there that don't

20:19:43 belong there.

20:19:44 It is as simple as that.

20:19:47 And what they are doing, that building is wrong.

20:19:49 It is an offense to me.

20:19:51 None of you would want it out your back door.

20:19:54 None of the school board would want it out their back

20:19:55 door.

20:19:58 And none of these visitors that come into our

20:20:00 neighborhood every day and work at that school --

20:20:04 visitors, visitors would want it in their back yard.

20:20:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

20:20:07 >> They are willing to sell my house down the drainage

20:20:10 ditch for their own selfish little reasons.

20:20:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

20:20:13 >> My kid goes to Plant.

20:20:14 I go to Plant.

20:20:17 I teach at Plant.

20:20:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

20:20:21 >> It is a joke and I am against it.

20:20:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

20:20:30 >> I will give him another minute if he wants.

20:20:32 He does live next door.

20:20:34 I will give up one of my minutes if he wants to -- does

20:20:36 he have anything else --

20:20:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We don't offer it like that.

20:20:39 >> Okay.

20:20:39 All right.

20:20:41 Good evening.

20:20:43 I am Kevin Mineer.

20:20:48 I live at 3415 West Palmyra.

20:20:52 I live about eight houses from Plant High School.

20:20:55 I moved ironically enough from a house directly across

20:20:57 the street from Roosevelt Elementary.

20:21:00 I am a supporter of the new meeting at Plant high.

20:21:03 It is one of the top schools in the county cycle, one of

20:21:06 the best in the state, one of the best in the nation.

20:21:09 Plant high taught my child and she is now in a great

20:21:11 college thanks to Plant.

20:21:14 Plant high have taught and will teach my neighborhood

20:21:17 kids and has been teaching kids in my neighborhood for 82

20:21:17 years.

20:21:19 82 years.

20:21:21 I fully expect them to teach kids for 82 more years;

20:21:24 however, because Plant is such an attractive school with

20:21:28 a somewhat wealthy clientele, lots of kids drive.

20:21:31 Even though there seems to be spaces available in the

20:21:33 student lot, some kids park in the neighborhood,

20:21:35 including parking in front of my house.

20:21:36 Most of these kids are fine.

20:21:38 Some are not.

20:21:43 I am sure you have heard stories about kids with a bad

20:21:46 mistaken sense of entitlement and blocked sidewalks and

20:21:49 mess with street cleaners, left trash, et cetera, et

20:21:49 cetera.

20:21:51 Fortunately the city has got a solution.

20:21:54 You put up one of those five-minute no parking signs.

20:21:59 I put one of those up in front of my house, and the bad

20:22:00 kid went away.

20:22:04 I will always support Plant in whatever they want to do.

20:22:07 They have a wonderful heritage that goes back to 1926.

20:22:11 My house was built in '24, so I beat them by two years.

20:22:13 I have elderly friends who went to Plant.

20:22:15 Their kids went to Plant.

20:22:16 Their grandkids are going to Plant.

20:22:19 I am glad my daughter was part of Plant's heritage.

20:22:22 I hope my grandkids get to go to Plant.

20:22:24 If Plant high needs this building to continue to do what

20:22:28 they do best, to teach our kids, then I think they should

20:22:28 get it.

20:22:30 Thank you.

20:22:32 And I can answer any questions about the five-minute

20:22:34 parking sign.

20:22:36 It works for me.

20:22:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

20:22:45 >> Good evening.

20:22:51 My name is Frederica Gastof.

20:22:55 I live next door to Mr. Osman.

20:22:59 As a graduate of Plant -- HB Plant High School.

20:23:05 The daughter of a football player who was in the first

20:23:12 class at Plant and a 73-year neighbor of Plant, I have

20:23:15 earned the right to file a formal complaint against

20:23:17 Plant.

20:23:21 The permit will compound the problems that can or will

20:23:29 not be solved interimly or with the neighbor.

20:23:34 My privacy will be destroyed with the two-story

20:23:36 classroom.

20:23:40 Overpopulation of the students, the noise from the

20:23:45 construction alone, and I would guaranteed by the

20:23:53 building engineer that they are going to work seven days

20:23:54 a week.

20:23:59 That is very, very disconcerting.

20:24:07 I believe that Plant can control their problems.

20:24:10 But they can't control it if something is not done by the

20:24:11 population.

20:24:16 I realize that you have limited amount of power as far as

20:24:21 the variance is concerned, but I am a neighbor who is

20:24:26 asking you to please file against this.

20:24:30 I did bring some pictures, but I won't show them because

20:24:31 they have already been -- you have already talked about

20:24:34 it.

20:24:37 Do I have any questions from anybody?

20:24:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a question.

20:24:39 >> Yes.

20:24:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Miss Cole alluded to the statute and

20:24:47 let me just read it because I agree with her.

20:24:51 It says if a board -- like the school board -- submits an

20:24:54 application to expand an existing school site, the local

20:24:57 governing body that's us may impose reasonable

20:24:59 development standards and conditions on the expansion

20:25:02 only and says in a manner consistent with another

20:25:04 statute.

20:25:08 But -- so I agree with Miss Cole -- the interpretation.

20:25:12 I don't think under the statute that this body has the

20:25:13 ability to reject this.

20:25:18 It is not one of the options that Tallahassee given us.

20:25:20 >> May I ask you then sir --

20:25:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me ask you and see where this

20:25:23 goes.

20:25:25 Mr. Catalano had a suggestion because one of the things

20:25:29 that we can do as Miss Cole indicated, our attorney, is

20:25:33 -- is we can impose reasonable development standards and

20:25:34 conditions on the expansion.

20:25:39 Mr. Catalano suggested the -- the windows that you can't

20:25:41 really see through.

20:25:43 They let in light, but they can't see through.

20:25:47 I think that may be a reasonable suggestion that council

20:25:48 might want to consider and hopefully the school board

20:25:51 will consider so we can work through that.

20:25:54 Do you have any other specific reasonable suggestions?

20:25:55 >> Yes, I do.

20:25:59 I would be willing to accept a wall that would run from

20:26:02 Himes all the way through, straight through, to Dale

20:26:05 Mabry on the property of the school.

20:26:09 12-feet wall.

20:26:15 If -- and I will even take a 10-foot wall to properly

20:26:18 stamp out the school completely.

20:26:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And mainly for noise or visual or --

20:26:23 >> For everything.

20:26:26 Anything to cut off the Sterling dead end which has

20:26:32 become a completely sore point in -- to -- traffic is

20:26:34 unbelievable there.

20:26:37 There is no reason for it.

20:26:40 For one thing, it is against the law.

20:26:43 There is no reason -- I have already done the homework on

20:26:46 that, and they have told me the traffic department told

20:26:51 me that no one can use a dead end as a private drive.

20:26:53 It is illegal.

20:26:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Several principals ago I was assured

20:27:03 that gate -- what street is it -- Sterling -- the

20:27:07 Sterling gate would not be used and it apparently started

20:27:08 getting open again.

20:27:11 I was surprised to hear tonight that it was being used

20:27:11 again.

20:27:14 But the good news is we will have it in writing as a

20:27:17 condition of this project that they are going to keep it

20:27:19 closed except for emergency vehicles.

20:27:22 >> Do you know how many times I have been lied to?

20:27:26 And I hate -- I am 73 years old, and this has been a

20:27:29 continuous thing with this is the lying.

20:27:34 I am -- I am sorry, I don't mean to be derogatory or

20:27:39 anything, but what they say and what they do are two

20:27:40 different things.

20:27:42 They are saying they only use it for emergencies, they

20:27:44 will use it any time they wish.

20:27:49 That is why I would like that 12-foot wall.

20:27:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

20:27:51 >> Thank you.

20:27:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

20:27:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to say while she is

20:28:00 coming up, I don't believe that construction is allowed

20:28:01 on Sunday at all by anybody.

20:28:06 Can our legal department just clarify that --

20:28:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think it is allowed during limited

20:28:09 hours.

20:28:10 Marty, you can check that.

20:28:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If we can --

20:28:15 >> Good evening, Nancy.

20:28:17 3415 likes avenue.

20:28:19 I have been sworn in.

20:28:22 I live within walking distance to Plant High School but

20:28:26 on the north -- on the northern side of the school, and I

20:28:32 look at Plant as a wonderful asset to the neighborhood.

20:28:35 I wish some of the neighbors would take advantage of

20:28:38 what's there for neighbors.

20:28:42 There are many artistic events that are open to -- to

20:28:46 anyone in the community, you know, music productions,

20:28:50 drama productions, chorus, band, all open to the

20:28:50 community.

20:28:53 The sporting events, obviously some of the best.

20:28:57 Volleyball, soccer, basketball, football.

20:28:59 The football field is filled with members of the

20:29:03 community, young, old, everyone.

20:29:06 And then we've -- we've tried as parents to improve the

20:29:11 -- the site, you know the Dale Mabry entrance.

20:29:13 There is a beautiful wall and fence that we raised money

20:29:14 to put in.

20:29:18 We raised money for a marquee to let the community know

20:29:20 about the events that are going on.

20:29:23 You know, it is a beautiful school, and -- and obviously

20:29:30 the academic excellence is -- is very good.

20:29:31 So please support this.

20:29:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

20:29:35 Next speaker.

20:29:37 >> Hi, I am Linda Coleman.

20:29:44 And since 1972 lived on Palmyra avenue and that

20:29:47 overlooks Plant's parking lot.

20:29:49 I am unique because I taught in one of the portables for

20:29:52 several years and I agree they should be removed but I am

20:29:55 opposed to the Special Use Permit that they are

20:29:56 requesting.

20:29:59 And I have want to thank you for still letting me speak

20:30:02 because I realize not a whole lot you can still do about

20:30:05 this, but they have not addressed school boundary to the

20:30:07 South with Robinson since 1991.

20:30:08 That is 18 years ago.

20:30:10 That means a stud couldn't have been born and already

20:30:13 graduated from High School since they last addressed that

20:30:14 boundary.

20:30:17 The demographics have certainly changed since that time.

20:30:19 Moving on.

20:30:22 The students at Robinson which is underenrolled right now

20:30:26 and 50 students to Jefferson whose boundary goes to the

20:30:28 expressway would eliminate the need for eight of those

20:30:29 portables.

20:30:32 Secondly, if Plant is overcrowded they need to stop all

20:30:34 special and hardship assignments.

20:30:39 The handouts provided by Plant indicated a 96%

20:30:40 neighborhood auto school.

20:30:42 That means 4% are not neighborhood students.

20:30:45 Those 90 additional students require four additional

20:30:48 classrooms or portables.

20:30:51 Plant is classified as a school that is closed yet

20:30:54 nonneighborhood students are still allowed to attend.

20:30:57 Lastly, Plant administrators need to utilize every

20:30:59 classroom, every period in their existing building which

20:31:01 is currently not the case.

20:31:05 Every existing classroom should be used every period

20:31:06 before requesting the need for additional classrooms to

20:31:09 be built in summary particularly during these tough

20:31:11 economic times before spending millions of dollars to

20:31:15 build 16 additional classrooms, other solutions should be

20:31:17 applied.

20:31:20 Adjust by its boundaries which will decrease the need for

20:31:23 eight of those portables, staff approving nonneighborhood

20:31:25 students from attending Plant and decrease the need for

20:31:27 an additional four portables.

20:31:31 Current -- all currently available classrooms every

20:31:36 period which will add additional classrooms.

20:31:40 Solutions to Plant's problems that do not require the

20:31:43 construction of another building.

20:31:45 Tough decisions that would anger the families of students

20:31:46 that are impacted.

20:31:49 But I am relaying this to make the tough decisions should

20:31:52 not impact the quality of life in the neighborhood and a

20:31:54 waste to taxpayers' money.

20:31:55 Thank you.

20:31:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think you taught mine.

20:31:58 Thank you.

20:32:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thanks.

20:32:05 >> Hi, I am Cindy Ruff.

20:32:07 And I have been sworn in.

20:32:10 I am a parent at Plant High School.

20:32:12 I have a daughter who is a senior.

20:32:15 I am also the President of the academic foundation of

20:32:16 Plant High School.

20:32:17 I have two daughters.

20:32:20 My older daughter attended private school through 8th

20:32:23 grade and my younger daughter will as well.

20:32:26 We selected Plant High School because of the excellent

20:32:28 academics there.

20:32:30 It is where we wanted her to go to school.

20:32:34 We also felt very strongly about her participating in a

20:32:37 community environment, being part of this community of

20:32:42 South Tampa, and selected Plant for all of those reasons.

20:32:43 I fully support this building.

20:32:46 It is something that the school needs.

20:32:49 It is needed to educate my daughter and all of her

20:32:49 friends.

20:32:52 I think the goal would be that these students become

20:32:56 future leaders of Tampa and productive citizens here for

20:32:56 us.

20:33:00 And I think that is the goal of the school to do that.

20:33:03 I work closely with the administration of Plant High

20:33:05 School, and I don't think there is one of them who would

20:33:08 want more and more students come to the school.

20:33:11 They have plenty of work to do with the kids who are

20:33:11 there.

20:33:15 And the purpose of this building is to more fully service

20:33:16 the students that are there.

20:33:19 And I think that is their goal is to better educate the

20:33:22 kids that we have currently at Plant High School.

20:33:25 I thank you for your support and the support of the Plant

20:33:27 community.

20:33:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

20:33:41 >> My name is Tim O'Meara.

20:33:43 I have been sworn in.

20:33:45 I am glad I waited to let some of the people steal some

20:33:46 of my thunder.

20:33:49 I do oppose it for what I consider a waste of taxpayers'

20:33:55 dollars when true rezoning, this money does not need to

20:33:55 be spent.

20:33:58 And talking about transferring or using other High

20:33:59 Schools in the area.

20:34:01 It is a very valid point and I think it should be looked

20:34:02 into.

20:34:04 I am not going to talk about the parking.

20:34:08 It is not a huge problem on Palmyra.

20:34:12 When the car is illegally parked, the police do come and

20:34:13 ticket it.

20:34:18 What I do want to talk about and the gist seems to be the

20:34:20 effect of the school on the neighborhood and the negative

20:34:21 impact.

20:34:23 The crime -- there is crime from the students.

20:34:24 There have been stolen articles.

20:34:29 The Catalanos have had drugs put on their property.

20:34:30 The noise, the parking.

20:34:34 What I would like to talk about is the effect of the

20:34:38 neighborhood on the -- on the proposed new classrooms.

20:34:45 You say that you are limited to a reasonable effect on

20:34:45 this.

20:34:48 I think it would be reasonable to not have the new

20:34:51 classrooms so close to the neighborhood.

20:34:56 I live -- I am the third house in from Himes.

20:34:59 I bought the house with the school being -- I think they

20:35:01 said it was roughly 39 feet away.

20:35:04 The new setback will be 46 feet.

20:35:10 There is no buffer between the properties that I am

20:35:13 associated with, the old addition.

20:35:15 The school was not there first.

20:35:17 My house was also built in 1926.

20:35:21 And I have an aerial photo preaddition.

20:35:24 It must have been at least -- I am going to estimate 100

20:35:29 to 150 feet between the properties and the school -- and

20:35:33 the new addition done in the '50s and '60s.

20:35:36 You are going to repeat a mistake that was made back in

20:35:39 the '50s and '60s by building this new addition so close

20:35:42 to current property.

20:35:46 One of my neighbors and I did a little experiment a

20:35:47 couple of days ago.

20:35:51 On Tuesday before he went to work he put a radio in his

20:35:52 back yard and turned it on.

20:35:57 It wasn't loud but somewhat irritating music.

20:36:00 Immediately the classroom windows were closed that were

20:36:02 affected by the noise.

20:36:04 Now the classroom windows are not supposed to be open

20:36:07 according to one of the supervisors.

20:36:11 Within 15 minutes the police came to cite him for

20:36:14 disturbing the school.

20:36:19 If you build the new classrooms so close to private

20:36:23 property, anyone in their back yard reading a newspaper

20:36:27 and playing a radio is going to -- or will render the

20:36:29 classrooms unusable.

20:36:31 It is a huge waste of money.

20:36:34 I think you need to build the classrooms deeper into the

20:36:38 school property to afford an acoustic barrier from the

20:36:41 students and the neighborhood.

20:36:46 The neighborhood can negatively effect the classrooms.

20:36:46 Thank you.

20:36:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

20:36:51 Thank you, sir.

20:36:53 >> Hi, Barbara wiles.

20:36:56 Live at 4601 west San Miguel street and I come in favor

20:36:58 of this.

20:37:02 I would like to say that I volunteer every Wednesday at

20:37:05 Plant High School in the college guidance office, and my

20:37:08 shift is in the afternoon, and I am amazed every single

20:37:13 time that I am there that if I am working until 3:15,

20:37:14 there is no traffic.

20:37:15 Everything has cleared out.

20:37:18 So it is amazing how quickly these administrators are

20:37:21 able to successfully able to move those students off the

20:37:22 campus.

20:37:25 Secondly I would like to say as a parent I had two

20:37:27 daughters, one who recently graduated.

20:37:31 She transferred into Plant as a junior hand to go at 6:00

20:37:34 in the morning to get a parking -- hopefully get a

20:37:34 parking pass.

20:37:38 And she was successful, but a junior there at Plant who

20:37:40 was not able to get a parking pass.

20:37:44 Plenty of kids at Plant who do not have the ability to

20:37:45 park at Plant.

20:37:50 My third point I want to bring up I recently moved at a

20:37:53 house zip code to the same zip code.

20:37:56 I received several calls from Mr. Thompson in one day,

20:37:58 the assistant principal.

20:38:01 I was certain my child was in trouble, but he had called

20:38:06 me to ask me to bring proof to the school that I had

20:38:08 moved my address.

20:38:12 And I believe when my first child transferred in I I

20:38:13 needed to bring a utility Bill.

20:38:15 He said that would not be sufficient.

20:38:18 I needed to bring a rental agreement or a copy of my deed

20:38:25 to the school along with the utility Bill to prove that I

20:38:26 have moved.

20:38:28 So I believe that the administration is using their best

20:38:31 effort to make sure that people live within the district.

20:38:32 Thank you.

20:38:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much, ma'am.

20:38:39 >> I am Denise Monty.

20:38:42 I am the secretary of the Palma ceia neighborhood

20:38:45 association and I have been sworn in.

20:38:48 Most of what I have put down here has been said.

20:38:51 The neighborhood association knows that Plant is a good

20:38:51 school.

20:38:53 That is not an issue.

20:38:54 It is a wonderful school.

20:39:01 But in 2005, John and I and the Plant administration at

20:39:04 the time sat down with the very same issues of parking

20:39:06 and traffic and tried to get them straightened out with

20:39:09 less than 2,000 students at the school.

20:39:13 We are going through the same thing, the same thing.

20:39:19 Our concern as neighbors is that it is too large.

20:39:21 The Plant High School is too large.

20:39:23 It is a wonderful school and I don't blame anyone for

20:39:26 wanting to go there, but the boundaries have got to be

20:39:30 changed so we don't keep 2400 students on that small

20:39:34 piece of land on a narrow street.

20:39:36 And if they may clear out that you can't get anywhere

20:39:38 near that school.

20:39:42 I invite you to come between quarter of 3 and 3:00 any

20:39:45 afternoon and try to get through Himes, San Miguel, San

20:39:47 Jose or any of them.

20:39:50 Anyway, I just want to say our issue is not that it is a

20:39:51 wonderful school.

20:39:52 It is a wonderful school.

20:39:54 It is just way too large.

20:39:57 And even though you don't have maybe the power to deny

20:40:00 this, please look at this and maybe work with the school

20:40:04 board to see about doing something about how large it is.

20:40:07 It is too large for the property that it is on.

20:40:09 And the small neighborhood that it surrounds.

20:40:11 Thank you very much for your time.

20:40:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

20:40:21 >> Hi, my name is Derek Thomas.

20:40:23 I am a teacher at Plant High School.

20:40:25 And I am also a member of the South Tampa community that

20:40:28 feeds to Plant High School where I am very proud that my

20:40:30 children will attend one day.

20:40:36 My purpose for stepping up here is to just kind of answer

20:40:38 to some of the questions and comments that I have heard.

20:40:40 First of all, I have a classroom at Plant.

20:40:44 I am one of the lucky teachers who do have a classroom at

20:40:48 Plant and do not have to float, carry my stuff with me

20:40:50 from classroom to classroom to classroom and

20:40:53 ineffectively teach children because I don't have a place

20:40:56 to teach because every classroom at Plant high is used

20:41:00 and every classroom is used every period.

20:41:04 I am not sure where that misconception came from.

20:41:07 Also, yes, we have a lot of students.

20:41:10 We have a lot of amazing students, and to watch them

20:41:13 being put out of classrooms because it is raining or

20:41:16 because there is bad weather and to watch the teachers

20:41:20 that are then forced to redesign curriculum because they

20:41:23 can't be in their room and have to move them to a

20:41:26 cafeteria that is ineffective to teach in is very hard,

20:41:28 and knowing that these kids are not able to get the

20:41:30 education that they are there for just because it is

20:41:34 raining outside because they can't walk from a portable

20:41:40 into a school is also not an effective thing to do.

20:41:43 These extra classroom also do nothing but meet the need

20:41:46 that we have, and I think that is what you guys are here

20:41:47 to see and look at.

20:41:49 And that is what these classrooms will do.

20:41:52 It will not do anything else but help us as teachers

20:41:55 better teach these kids.

20:41:56 Thank you.

20:41:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much, sir.

20:41:59 Anyone else?

20:42:00 Anyone else?

20:42:05 Okay, Miss Grimes, you want to come back for rebuttal?

20:42:07 Or do you want to come back to address some of those

20:42:11 issues and maybe speak specifically to some of the

20:42:12 remedies.

20:42:15 >> Yes.

20:42:18 As far as the -- I will now quickly go through some of

20:42:21 the rebuttal comments.

20:42:26 Mr. Catalano mentioned that -- that you had the option of

20:42:28 just simply denying that application.

20:42:29 That is simply not accurate.

20:42:33 As you know in this is a quasi judicial hearing supposed

20:42:37 to be based on evidence and testimony in the record and

20:42:39 that evidence and testimony have to relate to code

20:42:39 criteria.

20:42:42 You can't deny just because people don't want it.

20:42:44 All the testimony that you heard today, most of which

20:42:46 came from the opposition, none of it specifically related

20:42:48 to any of the code criteria.

20:42:50 The only competent and substantial evidence that you have

20:42:53 on the record related to the code criteria is the

20:42:57 testimony of your staff which has been incorporated into

20:43:00 your staff report and the expert testimony of Lorraine

20:43:01 Duffy-Suarez.

20:43:06 So only based on competent and substantial evidence upon

20:43:08 which you can act.

20:43:12 He also brought up the issue of the obscure glass on the

20:43:15 -- on the bottom row of the second-story windows.

20:43:18 First of all, the condition where that is not

20:43:20 incorporated into the mitigation techniques that we

20:43:23 proposed is because it is architecturally inconsistent

20:43:26 with the design of Plant High School.

20:43:30 When the last construction project was done out there,

20:43:33 the school did receive criticism about the architectural

20:43:36 design and some of the colors used.

20:43:39 Once you put in that object Kerr glass, it is going to be

20:43:40 permanent.

20:43:42 It is not -- it is not going to go away.

20:43:45 It is going to be obscured glass, different from all the

20:43:47 other glass in the building, different from the glass on

20:43:49 the bottom floor row of windows.

20:43:53 And then the other thing is, is the expense of it all.

20:43:56 If you are going to put in the obscure glass, then it

20:43:59 does not make sense to also incorporate the enhanced

20:44:02 landscape buffer because within a couple of years, those

20:44:04 trees are going to grow.

20:44:09 Those tree also be 14 feet high at the time of planting.

20:44:10 At the time planting.

20:44:13 Want year and a half to two years, you won't be able to

20:44:17 see the windows from the back yard of the lots that abut

20:44:18 the addition.

20:44:22 So all it really is an interim stopgap measure and

20:44:25 permanent improvement that will be architecturally

20:44:27 inconsistent with the design of the structure and we

20:44:29 think it is unnecessary.

20:44:34 If you request or require that that condition be imposed,

20:44:39 then what we would ask -- or remove from our offer from

20:44:42 the table the enhanced landscape buffer, and we will just

20:44:48 simply comply with whatever the minimum landscape buffer

20:44:50 is in the SREF.

20:44:54 It doesn't make sense to do both when it is only for an

20:44:59 interim period of time.

20:45:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You can't speak from the audience.

20:45:07 >> Miss Reid mentioned about the drainage.

20:45:11 And we wanted to put on the record that they will not be

20:45:12 utilized in the addition.

20:45:15 Even though she was dealing with South hall, miss Valdez

20:45:18 said she would be glad to meet with miss Reid anyway and

20:45:21 see if that problem can be addressed as far as the

20:45:24 drainage is concerned.

20:45:29 Miss -- miss Catalano also mentioned -- she had the

20:45:32 question about the 14 feet of the height of the trees.

20:45:36 That will be 14 feet after planting.

20:45:38 She asked a question about the lighting that will be

20:45:39 incorporated in the building.

20:45:43 The school district has what is called the lights-out

20:45:46 policy where the buildings are not lit at night.

20:45:48 So that would not be an issue.

20:45:52 I did not catch her last name but first name was

20:45:56 Frederica that lives on Palmyra.

20:45:58 She asked about the construction schedule.

20:46:02 We plan on using a six-day-a-week construction schedule

20:46:05 but given how construction sometimes occurs, we do need

20:46:08 the leeway to sometimes go to seven days a week.

20:46:10 We obviously have to comply with city code requirements

20:46:16 for whatever limited hours are applicable on Sundays, but

20:46:18 we are not planning to work on Sundays.

20:46:21 We are planning only to work six days a week.

20:46:24 And she also raised a question and said that she felt

20:46:28 like the administration had lied to her several times in

20:46:29 the past.

20:46:31 Especially she was concerned about the gate and whether

20:46:35 in fact the gate would be closed and use for emergency

20:46:35 access only.

20:46:40 As you all know it will be incorporated in site plan.

20:46:42 And only use it for emergency access.

20:46:45 And in addition to that, Mr. Catalano didn't mention

20:46:48 that, but he met with the supervisor herself --

20:46:52 superintendent -- sorry, superintendent herself Mary

20:46:55 Ellen, and the first question he asked was about closure

20:46:57 of the gate and she immediately said yes.

20:46:58 There was no negotiation.

20:46:59 No hedging.

20:47:00 There was no pausing.

20:47:05 She immediately agreed to make that gate emergency access

20:47:05 only.

20:47:08 And we will do that and we have already incorporated into

20:47:09 the site plan.

20:47:10 I don't think her concerns about lying by the

20:47:13 administration are valid.

20:47:18 And -- and as far as her request for the 12-foot wall, it

20:47:21 is -- we already are exceeding the landscape and buffer

20:47:26 requirements, and we are not willing to install any kind

20:47:31 of wall along that property line.

20:47:34 Miss -- I believe it was Miss Coleman talked about the

20:47:39 boundaries and the last time they were changed was in

20:47:39 1991.

20:47:42 I don't know if you had an opportunity to look at the

20:47:44 historical attendance figures I provided you in your

20:47:48 information, but the attendance figures for Plant High

20:47:51 School and probably all schools, they fluctuate over

20:47:51 time.

20:47:55 You can see just in the last ten years, the attendance

20:47:59 figures for Plant have gone all the way down to back in

20:48:02 2005 just five years ago, they were down 1800.

20:48:06 And then they increased, you know, by 100 or so every

20:48:09 year, and I am certain once the economy picks back up,

20:48:11 you will find that a lot of the students who were

20:48:14 attending public school will then return to the private

20:48:16 schools and the numbers go up and down and they

20:48:17 fluctuate.

20:48:19 But at this stage, we don't think there is any

20:48:22 justification at all for any kind of boundary change.

20:48:27 She also raised the issue about special assignment and

20:48:29 the hardship.

20:48:32 I have gave you a lot of material on that subject and we

20:48:36 did an evaluation of other schools and the number of

20:48:39 hardship and special assignment schools that they have.

20:48:43 The term is no longer "special assignment" they have done

20:48:44 away with that.

20:48:47 They have choice hardship on a district-wide.

20:48:50 It is done downtown and not school by school so it is

20:48:51 uniformly applied.

20:48:53 Basically for medical reasons.

20:48:56 That is the only reason you can attend a school outside

20:48:58 your neighborhood and Plant High School have a total of

20:49:02 88 choice hardship and special assignment students.

20:49:05 And based on their population, that is only 3.8% of the

20:49:12 total student population which means 96.2% of the

20:49:15 students are from the neighborhood or from within the

20:49:15 Plant boundaries.

20:49:18 That is third best in all of the districts.

20:49:23 Alonso has 97.9% of neighborhood students.

20:49:26 East bay has 97.

20:49:29 Plant is third with 96.2%, the percentage of neighborhood

20:49:32 students, nonspecial assignment, nonchoice hardship that

20:49:34 attend Plant is the third best in the district.

20:49:40 So there isn't this -- I think widespread policy or

20:49:44 understanding or perception that Plant grants these

20:49:48 special assignments or choice hardships for anybody who

20:49:49 asks for them.

20:49:50 It is simply not true.

20:49:54 You heard from one of the teachers that in fact every one

20:49:56 of the classrooms is utilized and that is based on

20:50:01 whatever staffing limitations they have.

20:50:07 Mr. Romera also requested that the -- that the addition

20:50:09 be set back further or that was too close.

20:50:13 The city code only requires a 7-foot setback requirement

20:50:20 in this situation; however, the SREF has a -- we are 40

20:50:24 feet back and we are double what the SREF requirement is

20:50:27 and more than six times what the city code requirement

20:50:27 is.

20:50:31 With that we don't think it is reasonable to deny this

20:50:37 application based on -- based on the setback requirement.

20:50:42 The only thing I wanted to touch on, and if you don't

20:50:45 think I need to provide this additional testimony, Mr.

20:50:48 Chairman or members of council, was on the parking

20:50:50 situation and the parking diagram that I had.

20:50:59 We think that as Kevin Mineer testified the use of

20:51:02 five-minute parking signs wherever the property owner

20:51:04 wants to install them is the most effective way to

20:51:07 prevent people from parking in front of your house to

20:51:10 prevent them from blocking your driveway and so forth.

20:51:13 We think that -- most of the streets within Plant's

20:51:17 vicinity have city no parking signs or the five-minute

20:51:18 parking signs.

20:51:21 So we don't think park something quite the issue that has

20:51:24 been testified to, and we don't think that the school

20:51:28 addition has an impact on parking given that situation.

20:51:30 I am here to answer any other questions.

20:51:33 With that, you have your staff recommending approval.

20:51:35 The Planning Commission recommending approval.

20:51:38 Again, the only evidence that you heard was our evidence,

20:51:42 which is the expert testimony of Lorraine Suarez that

20:51:46 establishes that all the code criteria is met.

20:51:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On the -- on the work days, six days a

20:51:54 week, what time will be the start-up time in terms of --

20:51:58 >> We would abide by whatever the city regulations.

20:52:00 I think on the weekends are 8:00 on Saturday --

20:52:05 >> If I can clarify for council and I am looking at the

20:52:15 city code, and section 14-151 -- 14 being offenses

20:52:16 talking about noise.

20:52:20 It says the noise limitation standards for construction

20:52:26 are contained in section 5-301.2, City of Tampa code.

20:52:27 That is the building code.

20:52:30 And one of the things that we should talk about is one

20:52:33 could very well argue that the City of Tampa building

20:52:38 code in and of itself is preempted by state law, but just

20:52:42 being that aside, the only section that is referenced

20:52:47 5-301.2 is titled loud noise generated by construction

20:52:50 activity on private property near residential use.

20:52:55 And that sets forth the hours of operation.

20:52:59 It says the generation of any avoidable or unreasonably

20:53:02 loud, disturbing or unnecessary noise by construction

20:53:05 activity on private property other than between the hours

20:53:09 of 7 a.m. and 6 p.m. Monday through Friday, 8 a.m. to 6

20:53:15 p.m. on Saturday or 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. on Sunday is

20:53:19 prohibited if such construction activity is within 1500

20:53:23 feet of any building or portion thereof which is actually

20:53:28 occupied in use either by a single family or multifamily

20:53:29 residence.

20:53:32 For purpose of this article, quote, unavoidable or

20:53:34 unreasonable disturbing unnecessary noise by construction

20:53:38 activity on private property, end quote, shall mean any

20:53:43 noise arising from construction activity on private

20:53:46 property that exceeds the noise limitations set forth in

20:53:50 section 1--- 14-151 of the City of Tampa code and this

20:53:54 states the amount of decibels between certain hours.

20:53:57 So -- but the only thing that is here that I see --

20:54:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What is that code provision, numbers.

20:54:13 >> 5-301.2, which is referenced in section 14-151, sub 6.

20:54:20 Section 14-151 is entitled "excessive noise prohibited."

20:54:24 Sets the certain decibels among certain hours of

20:54:24 operation.

20:54:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern and councilman

20:54:30 Dingfelder.

20:54:33 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Miss Grimes, you answered

20:54:38 pretty much for me all of the reasonable development

20:54:40 standard questions that people had.

20:54:43 I do think that there are -- I have one big question and

20:54:46 I know you said that you know by code you -- you only

20:54:50 have to be -- what is the setback?

20:54:51 20 --

20:54:54 >> 27 for the city.

20:54:56 25 under the SREF.

20:54:57 >>MARY MULHERN: 25?

20:54:58 Okay.

20:55:02 Just looking that the overall though, it does occur to me

20:55:08 that you might have been able to make everyone happy if

20:55:13 the -- if it was sited in the parking lot as opposed to

20:55:17 -- you got that huge parking lot and you could have just

20:55:22 sited it closer to the western -- I think that is the gym

20:55:26 or the cafeteria instead of right around -- along that

20:55:26 line.

20:55:30 I mean I know it is probably too late to do that, but

20:55:34 that -- that would have been one possibility.

20:55:39 And then just the other thing I wanted to say was I think

20:55:44 it is obviously a problem that the overcrowding at the

20:55:48 school and the underutilization of the other two schools

20:55:51 -- two nearest schools and there is nothing we can do

20:55:55 about that here on City Council, but there certainly

20:56:01 should be some ability to go to the school board and to

20:56:04 ask for some -- some help on that.

20:56:08 And I am looking at the attendance figures, and there are

20:56:11 a few anomaly where is it went down, but for the most

20:56:18 part, it has been going up, you know, but -- a lot, and

20:56:23 right now -- what is it about 25% more than it used to

20:56:23 be.

20:56:32 So I think people have legitimate concerns about the

20:56:35 school -- the Plant -- the site being too large and the

20:56:40 population being too large, but the school is trying to,

20:56:44 you know, fix the problem of the portables which are

20:56:46 inadequate and they need to do that.

20:56:48 So I think -- I don't know if you would be willing to

20:56:50 talk about why -- why the addition couldn't have been

20:56:56 further from the residential neighbors on the South side.

20:56:59 That's about the only thing I can see that -- that would

20:57:01 be -- we are talking about.

20:57:05 And I also think that as a city, we have been talking

20:57:09 about -- we talk about parking and we talk about

20:57:13 walkability.

20:57:16 Plant had a terrible tragedy with a young woman who was

20:57:23 hit by a car and we are not a walkable city, and part of

20:57:27 the solution to congestion on streets is to have

20:57:28 on-street parking.

20:57:30 While it is a solution to not have someone park in front

20:57:36 your house to put up that sign, but also the option of

20:57:40 allowing parking in front of your house because it slows

20:57:41 down traffic on your street.

20:57:44 The other option is by having sidewalks.

20:57:47 A lot of these problems are city problems, but you can't

20:57:48 have it all.

20:57:53 If you live in an urban area, and you have a big great

20:57:57 High School where students need to get to and from.

20:58:00 So I think a lot of these solutions people should think

20:58:01 about.

20:58:02 You should talk to us about parking and about those

20:58:07 issues, but as far as the numbers at the school, you have

20:58:09 got to go to the school district.

20:58:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder and Councilwoman

20:58:14 Saul-Sena.

20:58:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

20:58:20 Is Mr. Nelson nearby?

20:58:25 While you are coming up, you know, I want to say, I

20:58:28 commend everybody for sticking with us until this hour at

20:58:30 9:00.

20:58:34 Everybody has been very polite and we appreciate that

20:58:36 through the process.

20:58:37 I know this is difficult.

20:58:40 I think one thing we all have in common is we all love

20:58:42 Plant High.

20:58:43 They all do a great job there.

20:58:47 And a lot of people want to send their students there.

20:58:49 We also love our neighborhoods.

20:58:53 As a matter of disclosure, I used to be Vice President of

20:58:56 the same Palma ceia neighborhood association that is in

20:58:58 front of you tonight with great concern.

20:59:01 So I think we have to -- it is our job to balance those

20:59:05 concerns, and looking at the state statute, and it is a

20:59:07 little different, Gina, than most of our rezonings

20:59:11 because looking at the state statute, it says that you

20:59:14 guys submit an application to us, and we probably have to

20:59:17 approve it, and that's all fine and good, but then goes

20:59:20 continue to say we may impose reasonable development

20:59:22 standards and conditions on the expansion only.

20:59:25 So it is a little bit different when you stand there and

20:59:28 you say, you know, we are going to take away the trees if

20:59:31 we do the obscured glass.

20:59:33 And that is the typical development approach that you can

20:59:34 do that.

20:59:37 But I don't think that is necessarily the approach for

20:59:39 tonight for many reasons.

20:59:41 We can argue the law, but I am not going to argue the

20:59:42 law, okay.

20:59:45 I am going to argue the fairness of this and the fact

20:59:48 that who pays Mr. Nelson's salary along with every other

20:59:53 school employee here are the same exact citizens who are

20:59:55 here tonight on both sides of the issue.

21:00:00 Every single one of us, okay, pay for these schools to

21:00:02 operate these schools, and everybody deserves -- and

21:00:05 deserves a fair shake on us.

21:00:08 For us to start nitpicking about -- we are going to take

21:00:12 away the trees and give you the glass, okay, I thin is

21:00:13 really unfair.

21:00:17 You have your chief administrator for -- for construction

21:00:21 back there, and I want you -- as I am talking, I want you

21:00:25 to reconsider the position that Miss Grimes restated a

21:00:32 minute ago on that glass issue because, you know, what is

21:00:32 a reasonable condition?

21:00:37 Well, Mr. Catalano at 3701 and his neighbor at 3703 and

21:00:43 other neighbor at 3705 were, the three homes affected by

21:00:46 of this express privacy concerns with a two-story

21:00:48 building at 30 something feet tall.

21:00:51 They have privacy concerns and I believe in good faith

21:00:55 that is why James Catalano said at least put in the

21:00:56 obscured glass.

21:00:58 As far as historic -- the historic issue.

21:01:01 Nobody is going to see it.

21:01:01 Nobody cares.

21:01:04 And I don't think historic preservation anybody is going

21:01:08 to come after you on that obscure glass.

21:01:10 So anyway.

21:01:13 Why did I pull you up there, Mr. Nelson --

21:01:13 [ Laughter ]

21:01:17 -- I did -- I did have a reason.

21:01:20 One I want to congratulate you on another great football

21:01:25 season, but no seriously -- in all seriousness, one thing

21:01:28 that I think we have fallen short on is communication

21:01:28 with the neighborhood.

21:01:30 And I blame myself for it.

21:01:34 I am the district councilman for that area.

21:01:39 For a while I said like Dee mentioned westerly meeting

21:01:41 with the school pretty regularly and talking about these

21:01:43 issues and I think we have fallen off from that.

21:01:45 I know you are very busy.

21:01:48 Maybe you can even delegate it to another assistant

21:01:51 principal, but I think we need to get back doing that

21:01:53 probably on a twice-a-year basis.

21:01:54 Is that a condition we are going to put in this site

21:01:56 plan, no.

21:01:59 But the reason I asked to you come up is to -- you know,

21:02:01 as long as you are at Plant which hopefully might be for

21:02:06 the next 30 years, that you would perhaps give us your

21:02:09 agreement to do a better job on that.

21:02:10 >> I am definitely open to that.

21:02:13 I try to address all the neighbors' concerns as much as I

21:02:14 can within my power.

21:02:17 I mean every phone call, every E-Mail I try to return and

21:02:18 in a timely manner.

21:02:18 But absolutely.

21:02:20 I am definitely open to that.

21:02:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we need to formalize a little

21:02:26 bit and maybe twice a year have some meetings with the

21:02:28 neighborhood association, my office, whoever is in my

21:02:32 office in the future, and just -- and TPD is a big part

21:02:36 of this too because a lot of this is enforcement on

21:02:38 traffic and the parking issue.

21:02:40 But anyway, I wanted to throw that out there.

21:02:41 It is clearly not a condition.

21:02:45 On the construction hours, the code is not going to help

21:02:49 us, Gina, as Marty just explained it.

21:02:52 If you say you abide by the code, apparently our code has

21:02:55 weaknesses in terms of construction on public property

21:02:57 because it speaks to construction on private property.

21:03:00 And this is a public facility.

21:03:04 So I would like to see us perhaps have a reasonable

21:03:07 construction scheduled which I think that, again, you and

21:03:12 your facility folks can come up with of Monday through

21:03:15 Saturday construction during reasonable hours and frankly

21:03:19 I don't know why you would need to have Sunday

21:03:22 construction -- construction.

21:03:24 That seems to be something that the neighbors might find

21:03:26 offensive and I think all of us will find offensive,

21:03:28 especially -- let me clarify it.

21:03:31 Especially exterior construction.

21:03:33 When you get to the point of closing this thing up and

21:03:35 then you are on the inside, I don't think it matter what

21:03:37 is you are doing in there because you are not going to

21:03:39 hear it, but in terms of external -- exterior

21:03:42 construction, I think not doing that on Sunday is a

21:03:46 reasonable condition that I would like y'all to propose

21:03:49 to us so we don't have to impose it on you.

21:03:51 >> Do you want me to wait --

21:03:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me just wrap up.

21:03:58 Oh, last and most important, portables -- the portables

21:03:59 are lousy.

21:04:02 My children -- my daughter is out of there now.

21:04:04 You know going on 14 years I think, and I remember her

21:04:07 being in the portables and being dripping wet like the

21:04:12 young lady described herself, you know, on many, many

21:04:13 occasions.

21:04:15 I don't know if they put the AP kids throughout on

21:04:16 purpose, but --

21:04:16 [ Laughter ]

21:04:19 -- but anyway, but -- it is just lousy.

21:04:21 The kids shouldn't have to operate out of them.

21:04:24 And I do probably believe they are not as safe as -- as a

21:04:25 main structure.

21:04:26 So I support that.

21:04:29 But only other question I have for you Mr. Nelson is, how

21:04:32 can you give this community some assurances that when you

21:04:37 build this additional wing to replace those x number of

21:04:40 portables that five years from now or when there is an

21:04:42 additional crunch on Plant High pushing the numbers

21:04:48 toward 27, 2800 to 3,000 or whatever it might be that the

21:04:51 school board wouldn't be wheeling in another half dozen

21:04:54 portables and take those numbers even higher.

21:04:58 >> I mean, I agree and obviously -- the district staff

21:05:00 continues to look at our projections every year.

21:05:02 I meet with my staff as we look at those projections.

21:05:06 You know from the middle school, you know, I give them

21:05:10 private school numbers because have an idea about that.

21:05:12 Like you said before Mr. Dingfelder, it is ball

21:05:14 communication with the neighborhood too so we don't have

21:05:16 -- oh, I gotcha and that surprise.

21:05:19 That is not -- definitely what I am not about.

21:05:22 But every year we sit down and look at projections with

21:05:24 that and our district staff with that.

21:05:28 Obviously I do not make a final decision on any type of

21:05:28 boundary.

21:05:29 That is not my job.

21:05:31 It is the school board's position.

21:05:32 Not mine.

21:05:35 But we do sit down and talk about that every year with my

21:05:37 district staff.

21:05:39 >> How about the assurances that it is not going to be a

21:05:40 bait and switch.

21:05:42 We are going to build this building and five years from

21:05:45 now or even three years from now those mobiles, those

21:05:48 portables wouldn't come wheeling in.

21:05:49 >> Mr. Dingfelder, building the addition is to

21:05:51 accommodate the capacity we have.

21:05:56 It is not my intention to try to continue to increase an

21:05:59 already, you know, obviously crowded position right now

21:06:00 as far as the school.

21:06:03 But obviously -- like I said before, the school board

21:06:06 makes the final decision when it comes to projections and

21:06:06 the boundaries.

21:06:11 That is not my decision in the end with that.

21:06:13 But obviously concern -- I felt that concern was coming

21:06:16 up, I would definitely address my district staff in a

21:06:18 heartbeat.

21:06:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

21:06:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena and Councilwoman

21:06:23 Mulhern.

21:06:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

21:06:26 We are also proud of Plant.

21:06:28 I graduated from Plant.

21:06:30 My mom graduated from Plant.

21:06:33 Plant is a great school and in a way its success is the

21:06:34 problem here.

21:06:37 It reminds me of other successful community institutions

21:06:43 where we have these same problems of houses being smack

21:06:43 up against them.

21:06:46 I am thinking of Tampa General Hospital and St. Joe's and

21:06:53 some other very successful places that then grow and how

21:06:56 do you sustain their success within the boundaries that

21:06:58 are there.

21:07:01 I think that we had some very specific reasonable

21:07:01 suggestions tonight.

21:07:06 Mr. Catalano's idea about the obscured windows is

21:07:10 completely a reasonable thing and Miss Grimes, we are not

21:07:12 talking about a view from the street that the public -- I

21:07:17 mean this is a very obscure set of windows and I think

21:07:20 that it will take -- I don't know, three, five, eight

21:07:23 years for the trees to provide the same screening that

21:07:24 the windows would.

21:07:28 I think it is like the belt and suspenders analogy.

21:07:32 I think you need both.

21:07:34 Because the neighbors will be impacted by this.

21:07:37 And that would be my request to you is to figure out a

21:07:40 way to do both.

21:07:43 Ficus trees grow like crazy.

21:07:45 I wanted to put out a word --

21:07:47 >> What I wanted to say about the enhanced landscape

21:07:49 buffer that we agreed to at the request of these property

21:07:53 owners is that it was a way -- it is way and above beyond

21:07:56 what the code requires, and just for your information,

21:07:59 the school district is exempt from landscaping

21:08:02 requirements by state statute.

21:08:05 We had agreed initially to just comply with the city's

21:08:08 regular landscaping and buffering requirement, but we

21:08:12 thought the enhanced buffer of the live oaks, and you can

21:08:17 imagine how expensive 14-foot live oaks would be, 11 of

21:08:17 them.

21:08:20 We can't see going to the expense of the enhanced

21:08:22 landscape buffer and also the expense of the opaque

21:08:24 class.

21:08:28 If the opaque glass is going to -- going to obscure all

21:08:31 views into their back yard there is no need to do the

21:08:33 enhanced landscape buffer.

21:08:37 We can either comply with the city's -- well, what we

21:08:39 offered to do was comply with the city's normal buffering

21:08:44 requirements which is much less expensive trees at lower

21:08:45 height.

21:08:50 But it makes no sense to spend the taxpayers' noun do

21:08:54 both when within couple of years one or the other won't

21:08:55 be necessary.

21:08:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I believe your architect is here and

21:09:00 I wonder if they can just roughly come up with the --

21:09:03 with the two prices -- how much money -- I mean, I don't

21:09:05 know how much money we are talking about.

21:09:10 >> Before we have them come up, miss Valdez would like to

21:09:14 address the issue of the class -- the class cap.

21:09:17 The monitoring that will be ongoing as far as the size of

21:09:18 the classes especially with the class size reduction

21:09:21 requirement.

21:09:25 >> I wanted to just speak on this before you do -- on the

21:09:28 same topic of the opaque class because that was the one

21:09:31 thing that I forget to mention.

21:09:33 We have three councilmembers who think that is a

21:09:36 reasonable development standard to impose.

21:09:40 So we would like -- had a shout out from the back

21:09:44 agreeing to that, but I do think it would be good faith

21:09:47 and good neighbor effort to also provide the landscaping

21:09:53 because these people are having a building -- two-story

21:09:57 building imposed right on their back yard and I would

21:10:00 like to see that you agree to that and see that happen.

21:10:03 And I also think that there are economical ways to have

21:10:04 opaque glass.

21:10:07 I mean one of the things people do is use glass block

21:10:10 which is a pretty cheap material I think.

21:10:12 But there are a lot of options.

21:10:14 There are skylights to get the light in the classroom.

21:10:16 You are talking about moving students from a portable

21:10:22 which basically has maybe one window or none into a

21:10:23 classroom.

21:10:26 And I think the opaque windows are reasonable things to

21:10:27 ask for.

21:10:33 And I would like to also see you keep the trees to.

21:10:36 >> Thank you, Kathy Valdez chief facility officers for

21:10:38 the school district.

21:10:40 A lot of conversation about boundaries, and then

21:10:44 councilman Dingfelder, specifically to your request of

21:10:47 the principal to commit to the fact that once we build

21:10:50 this addition then we are not going to be adding more

21:10:55 portables and certainly he didn't feel real comfortable

21:10:57 that it wouldn't be within his power to assure you of

21:10:57 that.

21:11:00 But the district has a cap committee and now task force

21:11:03 that is looking into that right now, because not just at

21:11:06 Plant High School, but every High School, at every

21:11:08 elementary and every middle school this year.

21:11:11 When class size amendment is in full force, there is

21:11:13 going to be some real decisions to make.

21:11:18 Because when the school is full, and that next child goes

21:11:20 there and there is no room for him, then we have to

21:11:23 decide as a school district, do we send you down the

21:11:25 street, bus you down the street or change the boundary,

21:11:28 and that is what the school board is going to be

21:11:29 wrestling with all over the district.

21:11:32 And there is a task force looking into that to make

21:11:35 recommendations to the superintendent and then the

21:11:37 superintendent to our school board.

21:11:41 So I can assure you that it is a district-wide issue, it

21:11:44 is a state-wide issue quite frankly and we will be

21:11:45 dealing with that.

21:11:49 I don't anticipate that we are going to be adding huge

21:11:52 numbers of portables.

21:11:53 We are getting rid of portables.

21:11:56 I am happy to say that with one of our district goals.

21:11:58 We are well on our way of accomplishing that.

21:12:05 We have only about 200 being used for actual class loads

21:12:08 and continuing that effort to reduce those.

21:12:12 Modular classrooms are permanent capacities and we will

21:12:16 be right back here with you if we attempted to do that.

21:12:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

21:12:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?

21:12:28 [Inaudible]

21:12:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think the question is on the trees and

21:12:40 the opaque glass, the response --

21:12:44 >> We -- we had agreed to the trees, and we were costing

21:12:45 that out.

21:12:47 The glass we are investigating.

21:12:49 We never said no to that.

21:12:52 Our position at the time to the site plan and the most

21:12:56 recent additions to the site plan in we were continuing

21:12:56 to investigate that.

21:12:58 We don't have pricing options, but we will continue to

21:13:04 look at that in both of those.

21:13:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can we continue until we hear back?

21:13:15 >> We heard from the neighbors.

21:13:21 I think Mr. Catalano said he would prefer the obscured

21:13:23 glass over the landscaping and this is what they want and

21:13:25 they would be the most effective than we would be willing

21:13:27 to agree.

21:13:29 >> I think -- there is a reasonable compromise as you

21:13:32 mentioned a minute ago, Gina, which is if you go -- if

21:13:35 you go back to the city landscaping standards, you are

21:13:38 still going to be putting in trees, right?

21:13:43 You are still -- still requires standard requirement

21:13:46 two-inch, four-inch tree.

21:13:47 >> Further apart.

21:13:49 Not as tall.

21:13:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think that is a reasonable

21:13:55 compromise to do in addition to the -- I hope do you the

21:14:00 viburnum hedge because that will grow fast and be thick.

21:14:04 And then add the obscure windows.

21:14:07 I think if we include all of those as conditions, I guess

21:14:10 that is a reasonable -- a reasonable compromise.

21:14:13 I would also like to hear on the construction hours,

21:14:15 because our code doesn't address it.

21:14:19 I believe we need to address it in the conditions --

21:14:22 >> We are willing -- even though I don't think it is

21:14:27 applicable either way Mr. Shelby read it, we are willing

21:14:29 to comply with the city's limitations on hour of

21:14:32 construction and we need to maintain the flexibility to

21:14:34 work on Sundays if necessary.

21:14:36 Remember we have until August 2010 to complete the

21:14:38 addition in order to meet the class size reduction

21:14:39 deadline.

21:14:43 So just in the event that the construction gets behind

21:14:45 schedule, we may need to work on Sundays.

21:14:48 We do anticipate working indoors on Sunday, but we can't

21:14:51 agree to a condition that says we won't work on Sunday.

21:14:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Maybe something along the lines to

21:14:57 make all best effort to comply.

21:14:58 >> That will be fine.

21:14:58 That will be fine.

21:15:04 And also speaking of communication, miss Valdez offered

21:15:06 during the construction process, during the entire

21:15:10 construction process to have Frank Nelson from batch and

21:15:14 cook, the construction manager, to meet monthly with all

21:15:17 the residents in case issues arise as the construction

21:15:20 progresses so he can address their concerns, you know, on

21:15:22 an ongoing basis.

21:15:26 That is something that we are also are committed to do as

21:15:27 far as cooperating with the neighborhood.

21:15:32 But if -- if you were going to go with the obscured

21:15:34 glass, then what we would ask for, even though we are not

21:15:37 required to, we will comply with the city's buffer

21:15:39 requirement, landscape requirement.

21:15:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

21:15:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close the public hearing.

21:15:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.

21:15:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

21:15:49 All in favor by signifying by saying aye.

21:15:51 Opposed.

21:15:53 Again -- John is going to read it.

21:15:57 We thank everybody for your --

21:15:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Participation.

21:16:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Participation tonight.

21:16:02 Okay, John.

21:16:04 We are still in session.

21:16:05 [gavel sounding]

21:16:06 Okay.

21:16:08 We are still in session.

21:16:09 We have not adjourned.

21:16:11 Thank you.

21:16:12 [sounding gavel]

21:16:14 We are still in session.

21:16:16 We are still in session.

21:16:17 Class, class.

21:16:18 [Laughter]

21:16:20 If.

21:16:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If everybody can leave quietly if you

21:16:27 are going to leave.

21:16:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Just read, John.

21:16:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am going to read the following

21:16:32 ordinance and then I will get to the change sheet in a

21:16:32 minute.

21:16:35 An ordinance approving a Special Use Permit s 2 approving

21:16:39 a public school expansion in r S-100 single family zoning

21:16:43 district in the general vicinity of S. Himes Avenue in

21:16:48 the City of Tampa, Florida, as more prescribed as

21:16:51 provided an effective date with the following additions

21:16:54 and changes to the site plan that has been submitted as

21:16:57 of October 22.

21:17:03 Number one, identify and restore Sterling Avenue gate as

21:17:04 emergency access only.

21:17:08 Number two addresses the construction -- the use of the

21:17:10 Sterling gate during construction.

21:17:14 Leave island two alone as submitted by Miss Grimes.

21:17:18 Item three will be eliminate and substituted that the

21:17:22 landscape buffer agreed to by the school board will

21:17:25 comply with city standards for Commercial construction

21:17:29 adjacent to -- Commercial construction adjacent to

21:17:29 residential.

21:17:33 Is that what we are talking about?

21:17:35 Abbey?

21:17:39 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I believe section 2130 paren 2 which is

21:17:41 the screening requirements for 5-foot and 10-foot

21:17:42 buffers.

21:17:47 That is a row of evergreen tree such as red cedar or

21:17:49 others planted 20 feet on center.

21:17:53 Trees will be 8 to 10 feet in height with 4 to 6-foot

21:17:55 spread and 30 gallons as planting.

21:18:01 A row of Evergreen shrubs in between the trees viburnum

21:18:06 or others.

21:18:08 24 to 36-inch spread.

21:18:14 Lawn, low growing, evergreen shrubs, evergreen ground

21:18:15 cover or mulch.

21:18:20 And items 2 a through 2 c doctor you don't need that one.

21:18:26 Sub paren 2 a 1, 2 and 3 is what I believe.

21:18:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Number four as submitted by Miss

21:18:29 Grimes.

21:18:32 Number five as submitted by Miss Grimes.

21:18:35 And number six as submitted by Miss Grimes.

21:18:40 And then number seven would be limitation on hours of

21:18:46 construction to -- that the school board will make it --

21:18:48 what did we say -- what did I say.

21:18:52 Use best efforts to comply with the conditions of 5.--

21:18:57 city code 5.301.2.

21:19:03 And -- and number 8 would be ate of obscured glass on the

21:19:08 lower -- what is it, the lower -- the lower pane of the

21:19:12 second floor facing to the South.

21:19:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

21:19:14 Okay.

21:19:16 So moved -- moved and seconded.

21:19:19 Second by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

21:19:22 All in favor signify by saying aye.

21:19:24 Opposed?

21:19:27 >> Motion carried with Caetano and Miranda being absent.

21:19:31 Second reading and adoption will be on January 7, 2010 at

21:19:33 9:30 A.M.

21:19:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to receive and file.

21:19:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.

21:19:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

21:19:42 All those in favor signify by saying aye.

21:19:43 Opposes.

21:19:46 One item before you all leave.

21:19:47 Okay.

21:19:47 Resolution.

21:19:48 Right.

21:19:49 Number 6.

21:19:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Move the resolution.

21:19:52 >> Second.

21:19:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying eye.

21:19:57 Opposed.

21:20:05 Council, one last item is relative to security and

21:20:06 access.

21:20:10 I do need to raise this tonight and Marty, officer miller

21:20:11 is not here.

21:20:14 >> He is not here this evening.

21:20:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

21:20:23 We -- we -- yeah, we -- we had an incident during the

21:20:26 course of the week, and it was advised that we take some

21:20:31 appropriate action to address the issue of security.

21:20:37 And that is -- one is that we put a panel access to this

21:20:42 door only limited to those who are coming in unless they

21:20:44 are, what, city employees.

21:20:45 >> City employees.

21:20:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: City employees will be the only ones

21:20:49 allowed access.

21:20:52 Anyone else will have to sign in -- right, sign in.

21:20:55 And the aides will have to escort them back to the

21:20:57 office.

21:21:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That includes everybody?

21:21:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, that is --

21:21:04 >> Staff?

21:21:05 You said everybody.

21:21:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Except city staff.

21:21:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: With a badge.

21:21:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: They need to sign in which is your

21:21:15 requirement anyway.

21:21:16 It is not happening.

21:21:20 But they need to sign in and also our aides need to

21:21:21 escort them back to the office.

21:21:24 We believe this will help with some of the security

21:21:28 issues that we have -- given what has happened.

21:21:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What happened?

21:21:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, we will talk -- do we need to add

21:21:37 anything to that, Marty.

21:21:39 >> No, Council in is working with Officer Miller and his

21:21:44 captain, and it does require some modifications, extra

21:21:45 keypads.

21:21:51 The code is going to be changed.

21:21:54 >> We've got another code to learn.

21:22:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Part of the issue is that -- is code

21:22:06 remain with the aides and the council persons and not

21:22:08 other unauthorized people.

21:22:12 The issue is are codes being given out as I understand

21:22:14 and -- yes.

21:22:18 >>MARY MULHERN: My issue is that door is never locked.

21:22:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It is going to be locked now.

21:22:22 >>MARY MULHERN: The outside door is never locked.

21:22:26 >> The outside door may not always be locked.

21:22:27 But the inside door will now.

21:22:31 The door that now has the opaque glass.

21:22:36 And from -- and from what I also understand based on the

21:22:38 security assessment of the police department, there is

21:22:41 going to be an extra keypad between -- well, rather than

21:22:45 talk about it publicly, all -- I guess the chair is just

21:22:49 asking is for you to be aware of it and for you to ask

21:22:52 your aids to be supportive of it because it is going to

21:22:53 require --

21:22:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I am going to go one step further and

21:22:57 ask for a motion if you are in agreement with that.

21:23:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, do we have a choice?

21:23:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I think we need to do something, so I

21:23:07 will certainly make that motion, but I also was thinking

21:23:13 today that we should have a security guard up here too.

21:23:18 I mean, we have the security guard in the lobby all the

21:23:19 time.

21:23:21 >> Downstairs.

21:23:25 >>MARY MULHERN: We don't have one on this floor.

21:23:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But they pass the one in the lobby.

21:23:30 >>MARY MULHERN: When we have a meeting I guess.

21:23:31 Anyway --

21:23:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So that was moved.

21:23:35 South Florida a second to the motion?

21:23:40 >>MARY MULHERN: I made the motion to get the keypad --

21:23:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Keypad for the door.

21:23:43 That all --

21:23:45 >> A sign-in book.

21:23:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Sign-in sheet.

21:23:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: For all persons except for city

21:23:52 employees and the code remains only with the authorized

21:23:55 persons.

21:23:59 That will be your aides and council persons, right.

21:24:03 And I guess the police department.

21:24:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

21:24:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

21:24:08 All in favor signify by saying aye.

21:24:10 Opposed.

21:24:11 Also Marty.

21:24:16 Draft a letter so everybody can get a copy of the letter

21:24:17 with those requirements.

21:24:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Make the code simple.

21:24:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What about -- what about 1111.

21:24:26 [Laughter]

21:24:29 >>GWEN MILLER: How about just one number.

21:24:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Make sure we got that on TV.

21:24:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That is what they do anyway.

21:24:35 1111.

21:24:36 Okay.

21:24:39 Anything else to come before council?

21:24:40 We stand adjourned.

21:24:41 Thank you.

21:24:42 (Meeting adjourned)