TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, February 25, 2010
9:00 a.m. Workshop
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09:11:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
09:11:53 We have we will have roll call.
09:11:54 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:11:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:11:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:11:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:12:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:12:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:12:05 Council, we will recognize honorable Gwen Miller to
09:12:09 present the police Officer of the Month.
09:12:11 Following that, we will have presentation for Debby
09:12:18 ward and then following on down.
09:12:21 >>GWEN MILLER: It's my honor this morning to recognize
09:12:26 our Officer of the Month.
09:12:35 I will now turn it over to Chief Castor to tell you
09:12:39 about it.
09:12:40 >> Again it's my pleasure as it is every month to bring
09:12:43 before you the Officer of the Month.
09:12:46 This month it's Corporal Rich Blasioli.
09:12:54 At the time he was chosen, he was chosen for a number
09:12:56 of outstanding initiatives that he took.
09:12:59 He was a corporal of the street anti-crime squad which
09:13:05 follows pattern crimes, does a lot of quality of life
09:13:07 initiatives and those types of things.
09:13:09 There was a residential burglary where over $10,000
09:13:14 worth of merchandise was stolen, and the detective
09:13:18 squad was having a difficult time following this crime.
09:13:23 Corporal Blasioli got his squad out on the mission.
09:13:26 They were able to identify the suspects, and he was
09:13:29 able to give enough probable cause to do a search
09:13:32 warrant on this individual's home,.
09:13:35 Not only would did he recover all of the stolen
09:13:39 property but he recovered a large quantity of narcotics
09:13:41 as well that didn't make it out onto the streets of
09:13:45 In another instance there was a strong armed robbery in
09:13:48 a convenience store.
09:13:49 They had an immediate response to that and did not stop
09:13:52 working it until the individuals responsible for that
09:13:54 were put into jail.
09:13:56 There was another home invasion that the district
09:14:00 detectives were having a difficult time.
09:14:01 They identified the suspects but couldn't find them.
09:14:04 So Corporal Blasioli released his traps to the streets
09:14:11 of Tampa and they did surveillance, interviews with a
09:14:13 lot of confidential informants, got enough information
09:14:16 to conduct lengthy surveillance and take these
09:14:19 dangerous individuals off the street as well.
09:14:21 He does an outstanding job not only leading his squad
09:14:25 and his officers, but in building the relationships
09:14:27 with other TPD departments and squads, and also out in
09:14:32 the community.
09:14:33 He has a lot of relationships out in the community that
09:14:36 are very valuable to solving crimes.
09:14:39 Now, as most of you are aware, we started a new
09:14:43 initiative this year in 2010 to further bring down the
09:14:46 crime in the City of Tampa, and it's the roped rapid
09:14:51 offender control squad, and they have had an
09:14:54 outstanding impact on crime reduction just in the short
09:14:57 time period of 2010.
09:14:59 Corporal Blasioli is the leader of one of those squads
09:15:04 and again has a hand in the outstanding crime reduction
09:15:08 for 2010.
09:15:08 So these are just a few reasons why he was chosen as
09:15:12 the Officer of the Month.
09:15:13 He does an outstanding job every day keeping this
09:15:16 community safe and serving the citizens.
09:15:18 So it's my honor to recognize Corporal Blasioli as the
09:15:23 Officer of the Month.
09:15:25 [ Applause ]
09:15:36 >>GWEN MILLER: We will now have a commendation.
09:15:38 And I am not going to read it because the chief said
09:15:41 all the great things.
09:15:45 At this time the private sector has some gifts for you
09:15:47 starting with Charlie's steak house.
09:15:51 >> Danny Lewis from Bill Currie Ford.
09:16:03 Pleased to be with you this morning to present you this
09:16:04 watch in recognition as Officer of the Month.
09:16:06 >> Vice-president of the Tampa PBA.
09:16:15 On behalf of the entire TBA want to give you a $100
09:16:20 gift card, say congratulations and thank you.
09:16:21 >> Good morning, council.
09:16:29 Congratulations, officer.
09:16:32 Here's a package for you and your family to enjoy Lowry
09:16:39 Park Zoo.
09:16:40 >> Stick Stickley representing Stepp's towing service.
09:16:43 On behalf of Jim and Judy Stepp we would like to
09:16:46 present this statute to you for a job well done.
09:16:49 Thank you for everything you do.
09:16:50 And we also have a gift certificate to Lee Roy
09:16:55 >> This is going so fast I don't know what's going on.
09:17:03 What's your name?
09:17:10 Well, you know, your dad gets all the other stuff.
09:17:13 But I have some stuff for you.
09:17:15 How is that?
09:17:15 >> Good.
09:17:16 >> I got four tickets to the cinemas as Channelside.
09:17:23 Would you like to do that?
09:17:24 >> Yeah.
09:17:25 >> There you go.
09:17:26 Maybe you can take your parents with you.
09:17:32 I have got a couple things for the parents, though,
09:17:35 I don't think they are going to take you to this.
09:17:41 They are going to go to Bern's.
09:17:43 Is that all right?
09:17:45 They get to go to Bern's but they can take you to get
09:17:48 your pictures taken at Bryn Allen.
09:17:50 How is that?
09:17:51 You like that?
09:17:52 They might even take you to rigatoni's for lunch
09:17:55 because that's in here, too.
09:17:56 How about that?
09:18:00 You will take that?
09:18:01 Well, congratulations, officer.
09:18:03 On behalf of Bryn Allen studios we are providing you
09:18:06 with a photographic package for you and your family.
09:18:08 On behalf of Bern's, we are providing you, without the
09:18:12 kids, of course, certificate to go to Bern's for
09:18:15 dinner, and rigatoni's your choice of lunch or dinner,
09:18:19 and of course the kids get to go to the movie and take
09:18:22 you along.
09:18:23 >> These aren't for you.
09:18:40 Thank you.
09:18:41 First I just want to say thanks to council.
09:18:44 Thanks to all the sponsors for having this award every
09:18:47 It's a great thing to recognize an officer every month.
09:18:49 Thank you, staff.
09:18:51 Thank you, chief, and your staff for selecting me for
09:18:53 this, this month.
09:18:54 I want to thank my staff over in district 1.
09:18:59 Major Ruggiero, captain Gonzales, and my lieutenant
09:19:04 Brian Dugan.
09:19:05 When I took this assignment back in July of last year,
09:19:08 I didn't know I worked with some of the best officers
09:19:11 in this profession.
09:19:12 This group of offensive officers that I worked with, I
09:19:15 just want to recognize them.
09:19:18 Buchanan, Greiner, Shepherd, Chulmick, not only some of
09:19:26 the best officers but each one was unique in their own
09:19:29 way where everybody worked together well and had traits
09:19:32 to get the job done.
09:19:34 We worked closely with our delayed crimes detectives in
09:19:37 district 1.
09:19:39 That would be sergeant Pressman's squad.
09:19:42 There's not one of those case where I wasn't on a phone
09:19:45 with a detective, where a detective came out and where
09:19:47 I communicated with them, where the officers on my
09:19:50 squad communicated with them, the search warrant that
09:19:53 was written by a detective.
09:19:55 So that working relationship worked.
09:19:58 We really worked as a team.
09:20:00 Some of the most difficult tasks that we could tear up
09:20:05 pretty much had to be taken care of by a team of
09:20:09 No one officers could get that done that showed in the
09:20:12 six months that we worked together.
09:20:13 I thank my wife.
09:20:16 I don't want to forget her.
09:20:17 She's been great for the past almost 14 years, never
09:20:21 questioning my hours and change of schedule and
09:20:24 whatever it takes to get the job done.
09:20:26 And missed a few soccer games.
09:20:29 These guys can understand it.
09:20:30 That's it.
09:20:31 Thank you very much.
09:20:35 [ Applause ]
09:20:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: At this time, Debby ward is going to
09:20:53 come forward and extend a formal invitation, a
09:21:03 Come extend the formal invitation and have a resolution
09:21:06 from the attorney.
09:21:07 And then Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:21:13 >> My name is Debbie ward, office support with the
09:21:19 water department and chair of the 2010 women's history
09:21:22 celebration committee.
09:21:23 Each year March is designated as national women's
09:21:26 history month to ensure the history of women will be
09:21:29 recognized and celebrated in schools, workplaces and
09:21:33 communities throughout the country.
09:21:34 The national theme this year is writing women back into
09:21:38 I have brought some members of my planning committee
09:21:41 with me today to extend a formal invitation to the City
09:21:44 of Tampa's 14th annual celebration to all council
09:21:48 members, city staff, and the public to join with us on
09:21:52 Tuesday, March 2nd, right here in City Council
09:21:55 chambers at 10:30 a.m.
09:21:57 It is during this time that we pay tribute to Josephine
09:22:01 Howard Stafford, former assistant city attorney, who
09:22:04 dedicated 24 years to the City of Tampa and was a
09:22:08 pioneer for women's issues both professionally and in
09:22:11 the community.
09:22:12 Each year we celebrate either a current or former City
09:22:15 of Tampa female employee who demonstrates outstanding
09:22:19 commitment to her position in the community.
09:22:23 It is with great pleasure I formally announce that this
09:22:26 year we are honoring Sarah Lang Ford as this year's
09:22:30 Josephine Howard Stafford Memorial Award recipient.
09:22:36 In addition, this year, we are very excite excited to
09:22:39 be collaborating with MacDill Air Force Base and
09:22:42 recognizing a military and civilian female employee
09:22:46 from the 6th air mobility wing.
09:22:49 We are pleased that Mayor Pam Iorio and council chair
09:22:53 pro tem Gwen Miller will be participating in the
09:22:56 program with fox 13 anchor Cynthia Smoot as mistress of
09:23:04 This year our keynote speaker is Stephani Crawford,
09:23:06 head men's varsity basketball coach from Hillsborough
09:23:11 high school, entertainment by Vicki Pratt from Code
09:23:15 We hope you will be able to join us next Tuesday.
09:23:18 The committee has worked very hard to provide an
09:23:20 enjoyable event that truly celebrates women's history.
09:23:23 Thank you very much for your time this morning.
09:23:25 We appreciate it.
09:23:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A resolution, and then Councilwoman
09:23:33 Mulhern wants to come down.
09:23:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I just want to confirm that this
09:23:37 year's recipient is Sarah Ford Lang.
09:23:41 Thank you.
09:23:42 Council, before you, you have a resolution that I
09:23:45 prepared pursuant to your resolution.
09:23:46 >> So moved.
09:23:48 >> Second.
09:23:49 (Motion carried).
09:23:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:23:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
09:23:59 This is a great month every year for me on council when
09:24:01 we celebrate women's history month.
09:24:03 And I always like to point out that our three city-wide
09:24:07 council people are women during this term.
09:24:12 I'm honored to present you and your committee with this
09:24:15 commendation for the celebration of women's history
09:24:19 And thanks for all the work you do, for all the work
09:24:24 that the women city employees are doing.
09:24:27 Thank you.
09:24:27 I appreciate it.
09:24:31 [ Applause ]
09:24:58 >> It is my great pleasure to introduce Dr. Sharona
09:25:08 Ross, that such a beautiful talented woman is the
09:25:11 initiator of a fabulous program in our community.
09:25:14 I would like to have ask Dr. Again Chateau join us, the
09:25:17 president of the University of South Florida, and Dr.
09:25:20 Sharona Ross is a faculty member here.
09:25:24 The City Council recognizes Dr. Ross and the University
09:25:26 of South Florida women in surgery initiative.
09:25:28 The first Tampa-area professional and academic
09:25:32 organization ever dedicated to steering more women
09:25:34 toward a career in surgery.
09:25:37 Designed to promote and foster mentorship as well as a
09:25:41 peer network for current and future women in surgery
09:25:43 and provide a forum to discuss contemporary issues and
09:25:46 opportunities for women who have chosen or may choose a
09:25:48 career in surgery, this initiative will promote both
09:25:51 professional and personal growth for women in surgery.
09:25:54 Tampa City Council commends Dr. Ross and the University
09:25:56 of South Florida women in surgery on the first regional
09:26:01 program dedicated to increasing the overall number of
09:26:03 women to consider and one day develop a career in
09:26:07 But, you know, it's appropriate that we are doing this
09:26:10 during women's history month.
09:26:13 All of us face the challenge of combining our
09:26:16 professional and personal lives and it's particularly
09:26:19 challenging in medicine and particularly in a career
09:26:21 like surgery.
09:26:22 So this kind of mentorship will mean a lot.
09:26:24 And I want to thank you so much, Dr. Genshaft, for
09:26:27 joining us this morning for this recognition.
09:26:30 Dr. Ross?
09:26:31 >> Dr. Sharona Ross: I would like to thank the
09:26:35 distinguished members of the Tampa City Council and
09:26:37 especially you, Councilwoman Linda Saul-Sena, for your
09:26:43 recognition of the importance of this mission to
09:26:45 encourage more women to opt for a career in surgery.
09:26:50 As you all New York City surgery is one of the last
09:26:53 male dominated professions.
09:26:57 Nationally more than 50% of the medical students are
09:27:00 But what you may not know that only 6% consider
09:27:05 surgical residency and only 3% actually opt for career
09:27:10 in surgery.
09:27:11 The University of South Florida, as you heard, women in
09:27:13 surgery initiative was established exactly to meet
09:27:17 those that gender challenge head on.
09:27:22 And on Saturday as you mentioned, February 27, 2010,
09:27:26 the University of South Florida women in surgery
09:27:28 initiative will present the first annual national women
09:27:31 in surgery career symposium which together will bring
09:27:37 up to date more than 1700 women and men from across the
09:27:42 United States to hear from 17 of the most prominent and
09:27:47 accomplished surgeons and academicians in America.
09:27:52 The goal of the symposium as you heard is to assess the
09:27:57 What are the issues that affect women's decision
09:28:00 whether or not to opt for career in surgery and provide
09:28:03 some of the effective and practical remedies for this.
09:28:07 Today's commendation, though not to one individual, but
09:28:12 to a group of dedicated individuals that have come
09:28:15 together to make an event this mission.
09:28:19 To that end, I would like to recognize for the record
09:28:23 the invaluable contribution of the president of the
09:28:26 University of South Florida, Judy Genshaft.
09:28:28 Thank you for coming.
09:28:30 The dean of the College of Medicine, Dr. Steve Klasko;
09:28:33 the chair of the department of general surgery, Dr.
09:28:37 David Smith; my partner and associate dean of medical
09:28:39 stimulation and academic enrichment, Dr. Alexander
09:28:43 Rosemurgy; the continuing medical education office,
09:28:45 Debby Sullivan, Beverly, Candice Smith and A.J.
09:28:50 I would like to thank my dedicated team which includes
09:28:52 my husband Jack Ross, Dr. Linda Berry, Dr. Lindsey
09:28:57 Romberger, Dr. Kane, Dr. Michael Albrain, Dr. Scott
09:29:05 Gallagher, Linda Hamilton, Lori Starr, Jennifer Cooper,
09:29:07 Carl Bowers, and Carman Morton.
09:29:12 I would like to thank Linda Richitelli and the
09:29:16 corporation for their commitment in launching a
09:29:17 comprehensive platform in 2008 to champion current and
09:29:20 future women surgeons and for being the premiere
09:29:23 supporter of this event.
09:29:25 Last but not least, I would like to thank Tampa General
09:29:28 Hospital for their sponsor -- for sponsoring this
09:29:34 Without the work and the dedication of each of these
09:29:37 individuals, the University of South Florida Women in
09:29:40 Surgery Initiative and the upcoming Women in Surgery
09:29:44 Symposium would not have been possible.
09:29:46 Thank you.
09:29:48 [ Applause ]
09:30:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:30:03 And president Genshaft, would you like to say anything
09:30:06 while you are here?
09:30:07 I want to let you know, of course I was out about a
09:30:09 month ago, did an extensive tour of your facility
09:30:13 there, with and it's very impressive.
09:30:17 >> Dr. Genshaft: It's a very exciting time for the
09:30:22 University of South Florida especially during the tough
09:30:26 and difficult economic hardship that we are all seeing,
09:30:31 that the university continue to be an economic engine
09:30:34 to make this area grow and be better and better.
09:30:39 And innovations are what the future is all about.
09:30:44 Dr. Ross is such a great example of the kind of
09:30:47 innovation that comes out of the university.
09:30:52 And I'm just here to applaud her and this initiative.
09:30:58 I thank the council so much for this commendation.
09:31:01 It means a lot to us.
09:31:02 Thank you so much.
09:31:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you and all the staff at the
09:31:08 I encourage everyone top go out and see what you all
09:31:10 are doing in the medical area.
09:31:12 And I was so impressed, that we have some of the best
09:31:16 technology in this nation at USF, in case we don't
09:31:20 It's very impressive.
09:31:21 I mean, I just can't say enough about the quality of
09:31:25 the medical care that's going on there.
09:31:27 >>> It is phenomenal.
09:31:31 If you look back in terms of the history of the
09:31:33 University of South Florida, what you will find is at
09:31:36 the time that it was formed, the board of regents said
09:31:41 the specialty area for USF will be health issues, and
09:31:47 across, as you go down I-4, the other universities
09:31:52 would be space.
09:31:56 So we have really developed health, and the whole
09:31:59 health initiative.
09:32:00 It's a very, very key area for the University of South
09:32:03 And we are very proud of the accomplishments of the
09:32:08 individuals, and again Dr. Ross is just one of our
09:32:12 phenomenal innovative leaders.
09:32:16 Thank you again.
09:32:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I wanted to sigh that I think Dr.
09:32:20 Ross is one of the physicians involved in the
09:32:23 initiative that we are trying to get off the ground in
09:32:25 Tampa Heights which will be an absolute game-changer in
09:32:28 terms of our local economy, and we are hopeful that we
09:32:31 can make that happen.
09:32:32 And her husband Jack Ross is the person who initiated
09:32:35 our sisters city relationship with Ashdod where Dr.
09:32:38 Ross hails from.
09:32:41 So it's a win-win thing.
09:32:45 You have given so much to us.
09:32:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:32:48 Okay, council.
09:32:54 We have item number 5 on our agenda.
09:32:57 >>DENNIS FERNANDEZ: Design manager.
09:33:07 I was asked to come provide you with a presentation on
09:33:09 the rationale for the boundaries which currently exist
09:33:12 at the Hyde Park historic district.
09:33:29 Here on the monitor map of the Hyde Park historic
09:33:33 district, with the red line indicating the local
09:33:35 historic district, and the blue line indicating the
09:33:38 national district.
09:33:40 That district was created in 1988.
09:33:43 In doing my research I went back and relied upon the
09:33:46 minutes, because these actually preceded my position
09:33:49 I was able to find the minutes for the discussion which
09:33:52 established the boundaries.
09:33:53 That was conducted by Annette Wilhelm, architect,
09:33:59 Wilhelm and associates that was hired and conducted
09:34:02 through the architectural commission to establish the
09:34:04 And the minutes do a very good job of delineating why
09:34:08 the boundaries were chosen.
09:34:10 Essentially it comes down to four reasons.
09:34:12 The boundaries were chosen to meet the criteria set out
09:34:15 in the ordinance, areas with few historically
09:34:19 significant buildings, which would be hard to enforce,
09:34:21 were omitted.
09:34:22 Large areas that contained only pockets of significant
09:34:25 structures were omitted.
09:34:27 And boundary loins that were not definable in order to
09:34:33 include a series of buildings were avoided.
09:34:36 That is the extent of the rationale that was given.
09:34:39 So essentially it was to meet the parameters of the
09:34:44 ordinance at that particular time.
09:34:45 >>MARY MULHERN: I think Councilwoman Saul-Sena brought
09:34:52 this up so I felt I should ask the obvious question of
09:34:55 why our local district differs from the national
09:34:59 district boundaries.
09:34:59 >>JENNIFER HERNANDEZ: I believe those minutes
09:35:04 delineated that, but it would appear that in reading
09:35:07 through some of the other minutes that preceded this
09:35:10 particular meeting and then occurred after, there was a
09:35:15 position by many members within not only the
09:35:18 Architectural Review Commission but the zoning division
09:35:23 that the particular area that was north of the local
09:35:25 historic district boundary line on DeLeon street was
09:35:30 not a consistent pattern with that south of that
09:35:35 particular street.
09:35:36 That being said, the national districts say they do
09:35:41 look -- their criteria are somewhat similar.
09:35:44 However, their approach to designation is a little
09:35:46 different because they attempt to bring recognition to
09:35:49 a particular area while local historic district
09:35:52 obviously brings regulation.
09:35:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I am not sure who brought this up, but
09:35:58 it seems to me we might want to relook at that.
09:36:01 Because as I picture those houses just north, it seems
09:36:04 like the district north of DeLeon has not been
09:36:12 renovated and brought up to the same standards as
09:36:16 everything south of there.
09:36:18 But it seems like there are the same types of
09:36:22 bungalows, same types of houses, and I think it's worth
09:36:29 us looking at.
09:36:30 When was this determined?
09:36:32 >>> This was in '88.
09:36:34 >> But I didn't bring this up, so I don't know, Linda
09:36:37 and John brought it up.
09:36:38 >>> Well, I can let you know this particular area is on
09:36:43 the preservation historic work program.
09:36:45 There are other areas that have been prioritized above
09:36:49 this particular area.
09:36:50 Those prioritizations are based on the number of
09:36:52 factors, but one of that is community participation,
09:36:55 and there are some areas of the city in which we have a
09:36:59 high level of community participation that we are
09:37:01 currently working towards proposing local historic
09:37:04 districts in.
09:37:05 So this is something that's discussed periodically, and
09:37:10 the Historic Preservation Commission, however, with
09:37:12 limited resources, we obviously have to choose what we
09:37:17 pursue very carefully.
09:37:19 >> So there hasn't been as much community interest in
09:37:23 doing this as in other neighborhoods?
09:37:28 >>> No.
09:37:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Other questions by council?
09:37:31 Any other questions by council?
09:37:35 Just before we proceed with item number 6, which is a
09:37:38 two-hour workshop, which is the only thing left on our
09:37:41 agenda other than new business, what I would like to do
09:37:43 is take up new business item that's I think going to be
09:37:47 I have to leave at some point to go over to the county
09:37:49 commission chambers, and I am going to try to get back
09:37:52 before we conclude that.
09:37:53 I would like to take up new business.
09:37:55 The first thing I would like to ask council to do that
09:37:59 we recognize Lou Miller, at our first meeting in April.
09:38:06 As you know, Lou Miller, to my surprise and of course
09:38:09 dismayed, has resigned from the Aviation Authority.
09:38:13 And let me just say I served five years on the Aviation
09:38:16 Authority, and I found him to be nothing more than a
09:38:20 professional and a gentle, and really cared out the
09:38:25 responsibilities of the board in a very professional
09:38:27 manner, and of course I always had the opportunity to
09:38:30 meet with Louis and be briefed on issues and the
09:38:33 agenda, as I served as the secretary for the authority.
09:38:38 And I just want to say, I think we are really losing a
09:38:41 great leader in this community.
09:38:43 And Louis has served us well.
09:38:45 So I want to move and give him a commendation in April.
09:38:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
09:38:54 All in favor say Aye.
09:38:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.
09:38:58 I echo those sentiments likewise.
09:39:01 You know, for 14 years, if you make a comparison
09:39:04 between airports, certainly there's nothing wrong with
09:39:06 the Orlando airport.
09:39:08 But there is a distinct difference.
09:39:10 Louis Miller was here inform 14 years without
09:39:15 The Orlando airport has had maybe, I don't know, nine
09:39:19 or ten directors of the airport authority.
09:39:24 We were fortunate to have an individual who was
09:39:25 straightforward, told it like it was, gave you a
09:39:29 handshake, had his word, and his handshake was his
09:39:33 And never wavered.
09:39:36 Got the airport where it is at today.
09:39:39 And you wish him well.
09:39:40 Knowing Louis Miller, the type of energy he has, will
09:39:44 certainly say that he's not going to be retired long,
09:39:47 because I feel that an individual that well will be
09:39:50 welcomed in many, many areas.
09:39:53 I'm not saying he's got that in mind because I don't
09:39:55 really know.
09:39:56 But when you compare the vicinity of the next larger
09:40:00 airport is Orlando.
09:40:02 And you look at the differences between Tampa and
09:40:04 Orlando, you soon recognize that if it wasn't for that
09:40:10 one individual, and the individuals that were there
09:40:12 before him -- I am not going to say it was just him by
09:40:16 himself -- have done an outstanding job in having an
09:40:19 airport always ranked one of the top in the country for
09:40:24 service, for reliability, for moving people in and out.
09:40:29 The design work that was done many years ago was way
09:40:32 ahead of its time, and you have had airports come
09:40:35 online like the one in Denver that they spent, I don't
09:40:38 know, over a billion dollars on when they opened it,
09:40:41 very few things worked.
09:40:43 The only thing that worked were the airplanes took off
09:40:46 and landed.
09:40:47 But you couldn't find your luggage.
09:40:48 You couldn't do things.
09:40:49 This airport never had that.
09:40:51 And I'm sorry to see an individual, that
09:40:56 trustworthiness, something that is lacking in today's
09:40:58 society to some degree, make the decision to leave.
09:41:03 And I welcome you, Mr. Chairman, for bringing that up
09:41:06 to us for commendation for Mr. Miller.
09:41:08 >>MARY MULHERN: And I want to echo both my colleagues
09:41:12 on that.
09:41:13 And just to say that in the time I have lived here,
09:41:17 Louis Miller has been the director at the airport and
09:41:20 it is just a pleasure to come home every time I fly
09:41:23 into that airport.
09:41:24 And I have done a lot of international and national
09:41:26 travel, and that is my favorite airport.
09:41:29 It's a wonderful, wonderful place, and he's made it
09:41:32 that way.
09:41:33 And we are all really indebted to him.
09:41:36 He's also developed really fantastic plans for the
09:41:39 future of that airport, which I hope will be carried
09:41:42 out by the next director.
09:41:44 So we are sorry to see him go.
09:41:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I echo my colleagues comments.
09:41:51 And I also want to identify the fact that Mr. Miller
09:41:55 made public art a priority there, and it's beautiful.
09:41:58 And we are so proud of it.
09:41:59 And he's created kiosks for information for visitors.
09:42:03 We said we need to increase the transportation
09:42:06 connections, and he did.
09:42:07 There's now a bus stop.
09:42:09 There's more shuttles.
09:42:12 He took away the fees for people who are going to be
09:42:17 there on a short-term basis.
09:42:18 He's been so customer friendly.
09:42:20 He will leave very big shoes to fill and we will miss
09:42:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I served with Mr. Miller on one
09:42:27 of our committees, and I have publicly complimented him
09:42:32 on his taking care of the airport.
09:42:34 And I have the same echoes as everyone else.
09:42:39 He will be missed.
09:42:40 Big shoes to fill.
09:42:41 And I don't know who we are going to get to fill it.
09:42:44 But I'm sure someone will come along.
09:42:46 Thank you.
09:42:46 >>GWEN MILLER: When you travel around the state, and
09:42:51 every place else, everyone says, do you know Tampa has
09:42:54 the best airport in the country?
09:42:56 And Mr. Miller has brought us up to number three in the
09:43:03 Tampa is the number three airport in the country.
09:43:05 That says a lot.
09:43:05 If anyone can do that, now what a great job that he has
09:43:08 And he will be missed.
09:43:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, council.
09:43:13 The last one was to take up the rest of the issues.
09:43:21 Under new business, council, you have distributed at
09:43:23 your place a memo from me.
09:43:26 I will be out on March 2nd.
09:43:28 I will be traveling to Haiti.
09:43:30 Even on March 2nd I cannot be here for the women's
09:43:34 I will be spending exactly seven days through the
09:43:39 9th of March traveling going with several
09:43:42 individuals here locally, and from our missionary VERA
09:43:47 Boudreaux to look at the school for the people who have
09:43:49 suffered from the devastation of the earthquake there.
09:43:52 And so I look forward to those seven days of going, but
09:43:56 I did want council to know I will not be here at the
09:43:58 next March the 4th meeting.
09:44:01 And I believe that this is a worthwhile endeavor.
09:44:04 So I just want you to be aware of that.
09:44:08 Any other new business?
09:44:10 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like a commendation made
09:44:14 for Robert MacIntosh who is rising to the Eagle Scout
09:44:18 rank on March 20th.
09:44:19 >> Second.
09:44:20 (Motion carried).
09:44:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: When I stepped out the door I was
09:44:29 talking with Mr. Michelini and Dr. Genshaft about the
09:44:31 idea that a Cuban medical school is interested in
09:44:34 creating relationship with the University of South
09:44:38 And I think it's time for us to create a workshop to
09:44:40 discuss opportunities for Tampa to prosper economically
09:44:47 from reestablishing our relationship with Cuba.
09:44:49 I would like to put that on our April workshop.
09:44:52 >> Second.
09:44:53 >>GWEN MILLER:
09:44:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:44:56 (Motion carried).
09:44:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, did you wish to have a
09:44:58 time set for that?
09:45:01 You have a workshop on the text amendment cycle at
09:45:03 9:15, digital billboard ordinance will be discussed at
09:45:08 10:00, and that is all you have.
09:45:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 11:00.
09:45:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
09:45:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you have anything else?
09:45:19 >>GWEN MILLER: No.
09:45:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda?
09:45:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have just been handed -- I also
09:45:25 have a request for an Eagle Scout commendation.
09:45:28 And I will be making that presentation away from
09:45:35 I just got the specifics on it.
09:45:37 It's for Stephen Smaus, S-M-A-U-S, Boy Scout troop 45.
09:45:45 And he's reached the category of Eagle Scout.
09:45:48 With your permission, council members, I will be making
09:45:52 that away from council at the location itself.
09:45:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:45:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:45:59 (Motion carried).
09:46:01 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to commend you, Chairman
09:46:03 Scott, for this wonderful work you have been doing and
09:46:06 that you are going to do in Haiti.
09:46:08 And I just think it's fantastic.
09:46:10 And just proud to sit up here with you and ask that you
09:46:17 let us know if there's anything that we can do, and we
09:46:21 can ask our constituents to do to help your mission
09:46:24 And maybe we'll give you a commendation when you get
09:46:28 [ Laughter ]
09:46:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:46:31 Next on our agenda then is the workshop that's been set
09:46:34 for two hours regarding reclaimed water.
09:46:38 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator for public works and
09:46:48 utility services.
09:46:50 We are responding this morning to your request to have
09:46:53 the administration provide information about reclaim
09:46:58 and reclaimed treatment and re-use.
09:47:01 You have also asked that a representative from
09:47:03 Southwest Florida Water Management District be here.
09:47:06 As you know, we provided you with a number of studies.
09:47:10 We have also put together a library, made that
09:47:13 available based on past studies and all of the
09:47:17 documents in preparation that was done in the past.
09:47:22 We have a representative here today from Southwest
09:47:24 Florida Water Management District, Mr. Anthony Andre, a
09:47:28 senior water conservation analyst with SWFWMD, and he's
09:47:33 here to answer your questions.
09:47:35 Both the city and SWFWMD agree on the person that
09:47:40 should make these presentations today -- and again we
09:47:42 have one from the city and one from Southwest Florida
09:47:44 Water Management District.
09:47:46 And that person is Mr. Phil Waller.
09:47:49 Phil is a vice-president with Montgomery, Watson,
09:47:54 While he doesn't look like it, he has 32 years of
09:47:56 experience dealing with reclaimed and advanced
09:47:59 treatment projects.
09:48:00 He was the project manager of I'll call it the Tampa
09:48:05 water resource recovery project back in the 1990s.
09:48:10 He also managed recently the aquifer recharge study by
09:48:13 Southwest Florida Water Management District.
09:48:16 So he will be summarizing both the prior and the TWERP
09:48:22 and the reclaimed or the recharge projects.
09:48:24 >> For the record, I'm Phil Waller with the engineering
09:48:34 firm MWH.
09:48:36 And I will be presenting a review of the previous
09:48:37 studies conducted on the Tampa water resource recovery
09:48:41 As you are aware, the Tampa water resource recovery
09:48:44 project, is what we call an indirect potable reuse
09:48:48 project, that looks at the feasibility, treating
09:48:51 wastewater to very high levels for use in augmenting
09:48:55 the I ask's water supply.
09:49:01 In great detail over a 15-year period between 1984 to
09:49:06 As Mr. Daignault mentioned, I was a project manager for
09:49:09 the implementation study that was conducted from 1996
09:49:12 to 1998.
09:49:16 This shows a schematic of the project.
09:49:19 And the concept was to use reclaimed water from the
09:49:23 city's Howard Curren treatment facility which is
09:49:27 treated to a very high level and is discharged to
09:49:30 either Tampa Bay or the reclaimed water used for
09:49:33 irrigation, the South Tampa reclaimed water system.
09:49:38 The indirect reuse project proposed to have take that
09:49:41 water, and then further treat it at what we call the
09:49:44 supplemental treatment plant, to treat it to higher
09:49:46 levels than what's treated today, and then that water
09:49:49 will be discharged to the Tampa bypass canal.
09:49:52 Once it reaches the bypass canal it would flow down
09:49:55 stream and would go to two potential places.
09:49:59 One, it would be withdrawn near the bottom of the
09:50:03 bypass canal before the water went to MacKay Bay, and
09:50:06 treated at an additional third treatment plant, which
09:50:10 is for drinking water treatment plant.
09:50:12 And then another alternative was to pump it from the
09:50:16 bypass canal into the city's reservoir at the
09:50:20 Hillsborough River.
09:50:21 And then it would be withdrawn at the city's plant
09:50:24 which is now called the David L. Tippin water treatment
09:50:28 plant and then used for drinking water.
09:50:29 So it's important that the wastewater that's proposed
09:50:32 to be treated three times -- twice before discharge to
09:50:36 the Tampa bypass canal, then mixed with the water in
09:50:39 the canal, and then it would be withdrawn and treated
09:50:42 again before it would be used in drinking water system.
09:50:48 The existing water from the Curren treatment plant has
09:51:01 very high standards before discharge into Tampa Bay.
09:51:04 However, when using reclaimed water to intentionally
09:51:06 augment your drinking water supply, health and
09:51:10 engineering professionals recommend that additional
09:51:12 treatment be applied to further purify the water.
09:51:16 The Tampa water resource recovery project investigated
09:51:19 a number of advanced treatment processes to do that
09:51:23 further treatment.
09:51:24 And the advanced treatment that was recommended in the
09:51:26 1980s was you ad litem to the water, raise the pH
09:51:36 to high levels, and dissolve chemicals, and recarbonate
09:51:42 it which brings the pH down to a neutral level and
09:51:45 then filter to clarify the water, and then go to GAC,
09:51:49 that's granular activated carbon.
09:51:52 That's another filtration process that removes
09:51:54 dissolved organic chemicals.
09:51:56 And then we go Ozone, a very powerful disinfectant and
09:52:02 then discharged to the Tampa bypass canal.
09:52:06 There have been a number of advances in the advanced
09:52:07 treatment technologies since the late 1980s and early
09:52:11 1990s when all this work was done.
09:52:13 And today, a project like this would most likely employ
09:52:20 reverse osmosis membrane.
09:52:22 These are very fine membranes that filter out dissolved
09:52:26 minerals in the water and it's used a lot for sea water
09:52:31 desalinization plants.
09:52:34 So if you looked at it today you would probably look at
09:52:35 a different type of treatment process, but one that
09:52:38 would be even more robust.
09:52:42 The city built and operated a facility that tested all
09:52:45 these proposed advance treatment technologies, and the
09:52:49 facility was designed and constructed and operated
09:52:52 between 1984 to 1987.
09:52:55 And during that time it produced consistently very high
09:52:58 quality, what is called a purified water.
09:53:03 One of the unique aspects of the Tampa water resource
09:53:06 recovery project were the very extensive health effects
09:53:09 that were conducted.
09:53:11 And these were studies that were overseen by
09:53:13 independent health advisory panel consisting of
09:53:16 national experts on water quality and public health.
09:53:20 As the water produced in that supplemental treatment
09:53:23 facility that I showed you on the previous slide was
09:53:26 concentrated and a number of cell and animal studies
09:53:29 were conducted on the purified water.
09:53:32 And some of the studies were, mice studies, mice were
09:53:38 exposed to the purified water at a thousand times the
09:53:41 projected human lifetime exposure of the water.
09:53:45 Now these carefully set-up experiments were conducted
09:53:49 over a five-year period to determine if there were
09:53:51 chemicals in the water that couldn't be measured or a
09:53:53 combination of chemicals at very, very low
09:53:56 concentration levels would caused a verse health
09:53:59 effects over a long-term time period.
09:54:02 And some of the experiments that were conducted were to
09:54:05 see if there were cancers that would be formed or
09:54:07 reproductive effects and other negative health effects.
09:54:12 As a result of being in contact or ingesting this water
09:54:16 And all the experiments show that the purified water
09:54:19 was safe, and in fact at the end, in 19 -- at the end
09:54:23 of the health studies this independent scientific panel
09:54:26 wrote a report verifying the results of all these
09:54:29 studies that the purified water was safe.
09:54:35 So after the pilot work was done and the health effects
09:54:39 were completed, the city looked at doing an
09:54:41 implementation program, and this is to address what are
09:54:44 the next steps in order to make -- to implement the
09:54:48 And they have identified that some of these key areas
09:54:51 were public acceptance.
09:54:53 Could the project be permitted?
09:54:55 How big should the project be?
09:54:58 What would be the cost?
09:54:59 And what kind of legal or governmental agreements would
09:55:01 need to be in place?
09:55:03 And could they be developed in order to implement the
09:55:06 And as Mr. Daignault mentioned, this is the project
09:55:08 that I managed from 1996 to 1998.
09:55:14 As part of that project, a vigorous public outreach
09:55:18 effort was conducted and we had a number of meetings
09:55:21 with them, key stakeholder groups, and did a lot of
09:55:25 outreach, a television survey of over 1,000 households
09:55:29 in the Tampa Bay area was conducted, to find out what
09:55:31 were important issues of the public for a project of
09:55:33 this type.
09:55:35 We had a lot of Internet and web access outreach
09:55:41 And then this was a public working committee.
09:55:44 And this public working committee was a year-long
09:55:47 effort that reviewed in detail different aspects of the
09:55:51 The committee was made up of representatives from
09:55:54 health professions, environmental groups, community
09:55:57 leaders, neighborhood associations, and members of the
09:56:00 general public.
09:56:04 We met monthly over this year-long period, and went
09:56:08 into great detail on some of the topics.
09:56:10 At the end of that the committee issued a report with
09:56:12 their recommendations, what were important issues, that
09:56:14 they wanted to see involved in the project like this
09:56:18 was implemented, and they endorsed the project.
09:56:25 With regard to permitting, the city actually applied
09:56:28 for permitting for all the major permits to implement
09:56:32 the project, and the Florida department of
09:56:33 environmental protection issued an intent to issue for
09:56:36 all the major permits.
09:56:38 This was for permits to con -- construct the
09:56:43 facilities, permits dealing with environmental issues,
09:56:45 and the permits for the health aspects of the drinking
09:56:48 water system.
09:56:54 The indirect potable reuse proposed by the Tampa water
09:56:57 resource recovery project was one of three large
09:57:00 projects under consideration by the regional water
09:57:02 suppliers, Tampa Bay water.
09:57:06 However, Tampa Bay water needed to only implement two
09:57:09 of the three large projects that were under
09:57:12 And one was selected by the region were the regional
09:57:15 surface water system and the sea water desalinization
09:57:20 And since that time in 1998 there's been no further
09:57:23 work done on the project.
09:57:25 But I would be happy to answer any questions that you
09:57:27 have with regard to what's been done.
09:57:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:57:32 I have just a couple of questions.
09:57:35 It was my understanding that the -- were the permits
09:57:41 issued to go ahead on this?
09:57:42 I wasn't clear that they were.
09:57:43 >>> The permit application was submitted, and a
09:57:50 year-long process addressing agency issues with the
09:57:54 permit was conducted, and there is actually an intent
09:57:58 to issue, a draft permit was developed by the Florida
09:58:02 department of environmental protection.
09:58:04 And that draft permit sets in stage a process to where
09:58:08 that gets publicly advertised, and then standard agency
09:58:13 time clock.
09:58:14 At the time the draft permit was issued, that's when
09:58:16 Tampa Bay water selected the other two large projects,
09:58:20 so the permit was just -- it was never issued final.
09:58:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:58:27 And at that time, which was ten years ago, 15 years
09:58:30 ago, what was the cost of the overall project?
09:58:34 >>> Again, these were costs that were done in 1998.
09:58:38 So it varied depending upon the size of the project.
09:58:43 We look looked at project sizes from 20 million gallons
09:58:46 a day up to 50 million gallons a day, and that ranged
09:58:48 from about $100 million to about $150 million.
09:58:51 That was in 1998 dollars.
09:58:54 The cost would be different today.
09:58:56 >> And you said some of the treatments will be more
09:58:59 sophisticated today with the reverse osmosis rather
09:59:02 than earlier treatments.
09:59:04 >>> Right.
09:59:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:59:05 >>MARY MULHERN: Can you show us the project
09:59:13 schematics, the second page?
09:59:18 >>> Okay.
09:59:18 >> No, I guess it's this one that shows --
09:59:22 >>> I think so.
09:59:23 >>MARY MULHERN: There.
09:59:31 What I am trying to understand is this looks like it's
09:59:36 got a number of different options.
09:59:39 Is that right?
09:59:40 On this one map?
09:59:41 Or was the project to do all of this?
09:59:48 >>> The project was proposed to allow for all of this
09:59:50 to happen.
09:59:51 But they are different options.
09:59:53 >> So you studied all these options?
09:59:58 >>> Yes.
09:59:59 >> So my next question is, next page, but it looked
10:00:04 like it was the page before this, the advanced
10:00:06 treatment process.
10:00:14 I'm just trying to understand if this is all new or if
10:00:17 we do some of these processes already, or you were
10:00:19 talking about adding all of these, or any number of
10:00:23 >> This was all new.
10:00:25 So this would be additional treatment to the reclaimed
10:00:28 water at the Howard Curren facility it.
10:00:33 So where he you proposed that it included all of these?
10:00:36 >>> Yes.
10:00:37 >> And I think Linda just asked was other additional
10:00:45 options now, or -- I don't know if ozone, what reverse
10:00:51 osmosis is.
10:00:51 It doesn't look like that was in here.
10:00:53 >> Well, what I was mentioning is that since this
10:01:00 treatment train was studied in the late 1980s, early
10:01:06 1990s, there have been a lot of advances and other
10:01:08 advanced treatment technologies that make them more
10:01:11 reliable than they were in the late 1980s.
10:01:15 And one of those is reverse osmosis.
10:01:17 Certainly, I do want to highlight that this treatment
10:01:20 trend was extensively tested, and as I mentioned,
10:01:28 supplementary, and then the health effect studies were
10:01:30 conducted out water produced by that treatment and it
10:01:35 showed the water was safe.
10:01:36 >> Thank you.
10:01:37 I was just trying to get an overall picture of where we
10:01:39 are now.
10:01:40 And I think we are going to hear that from other
10:01:43 Thank you.
10:01:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: When you did that study many years
10:01:47 ago, did you look at endocrine disrupters?
10:01:51 >>> Yes.
10:01:54 In the 1996 to 1998, we did some work with endocrine
10:02:00 The important thing to remember is that because of the
10:02:04 way the health effect studies were done on the water
10:02:07 produced by the supplemental treatment plant, they
10:02:11 measured the effects on health of whatever was in the
10:02:14 water, whether we could measure it or not.
10:02:16 And that's how the experiments were designed.
10:02:22 The cell and the animal studies that were conducted
10:02:25 looked at exposing the cells and the animals to the
10:02:28 water, and whatever was in the water is what the
10:02:31 animals and the cells were exposed to.
10:02:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Good morning.
10:02:40 Thanks for doing this.
10:02:42 I imagine nobody is paying to you do it, correct?
10:02:46 >>> That's correct.
10:02:46 And, you know, I have to go back in the records,
10:02:49 because we finished this 12 years ago.
10:02:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I sincerely appreciate you
10:02:55 talking to us.
10:02:56 Two quick questions just on the things that you
10:02:59 I read somewhere that one of the projects, maybe the
10:03:05 one up in the D.C. area or out west, spoke to about a
10:03:10 20 to 1 delusion ratio, in other words, 5% reclaimed
10:03:15 water was being mixed into whatever water body they
10:03:18 had, and I guess what I'm curious about is in the
10:03:24 destroy season, what was the projected delusion rate
10:03:29 that we were looking at in terms of the water that we
10:03:31 were putting into the bypass canal as compared to the
10:03:35 natural water that would have already been in the
10:03:38 bypass canal?
10:03:39 >>> The experience at other places in the United States
10:03:43 and in other places in the world that do indirect
10:03:46 potable use, so similar projects to this, the delusion
10:03:51 that you get varies amongst the projects.
10:03:54 For example, the project in Virginia, which has a very
10:03:56 similar -- it's called the upper AquaCon Water
10:04:01 Authority, they use an advanced treatment process to
10:04:04 what the city investigated, the filters and the granule
10:04:09 activated carbon.
10:04:10 They have at times in the dry season where 70% of their
10:04:14 water supply in their reservoir is the purified
10:04:17 reclaimed water.
10:04:20 In the bypass canal, what we look at is it varies
10:04:24 seasonally but could be up to like 50%.
10:04:27 >> I did see it somewhere and maybe it was one of the
10:04:33 ones out west where they talked about a 20 to 1 ratio,
10:04:36 almost 5%.
10:04:37 Have you seen some of those?
10:04:38 >> Yes.
10:04:39 And some of those are like that, too.
10:04:41 >> The other question I had, perhaps related to Ms.
10:04:44 Saul-Sena's question, is what is the life span of a
10:04:52 And it's sort of a facetious question, but the point
10:04:55 being that, you know, I would guess a mouse might live
10:04:58 two or three years or something like that.
10:05:02 And I'm not -- well, I studied biology for six years,
10:05:10 in undergrad masters, but the point is there have been
10:05:14 some concerns expressed about accumulation, long-term
10:05:17 accumulation of some of these organic compounds and
10:05:22 that sort of thing, and I don't know that the little
10:05:25 mouse who is living two or three years would
10:05:27 necessarily be the best critter to be able to study
10:05:30 that on a long-term basis.
10:05:31 >> Well, that was one of the issues that the
10:05:34 independent health panel looked at.
10:05:36 And they designed the experiment to address that issue.
10:05:41 That's where I mentioned the water produced from that
10:05:46 supplemental treatment facility that the city operated,
10:05:49 the water was concentrated, so there was a process to
10:05:52 use to concentrate the purified water produced, and the
10:05:57 experimental methodology was used to then extrapolate
10:06:01 if the mouse is fed the concentrated water, how does
10:06:04 that relate to a life-time human exposure.
10:06:06 So that was one way the experiments sought to address
10:06:10 that issue.
10:06:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda?
10:06:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not a biologist but I can tell
10:06:17 you that most medicine that weep take today are tested
10:06:20 on mouse, that we take antibiotics, take many things
10:06:24 that we have that's consumed today in the medical field
10:06:27 are tested on animals first.
10:06:29 And it's measured in the same degree.
10:06:34 For the viewing public I would like to ask you just two
10:06:37 Explain to us what is an advanced tertiary treatment
10:06:42 plant, and explain to us how many more of those plants
10:06:44 are there in the region, like the one at Howard Curren.
10:06:48 And those for starters.
10:06:51 Please, sir.
10:06:51 >>> Okay.
10:06:53 Let me make sure I understand your question.
10:06:57 The Florida department of environmental protection, an
10:07:03 advanced treatment plant, is one that removes nutrients
10:07:06 like the Howard Curren plant.
10:07:08 And currently today in the Tampa Bay region, the City
10:07:15 of Tampa and Hillsborough County has, I think, three
10:07:21 City of Tampa has one.
10:07:23 Hillsborough County has three facilities that are
10:07:25 advanced treatment plants that remove the nutrients.
10:07:27 >> And the largest one, I believe, is Howard Curren,
10:07:30 the one that still has capacity for about another 25 to
10:07:35 30 million gallons of capacity at the plant was
10:07:38 designed some years back to bring it more treatment to
10:07:41 that plant as the population grows.
10:07:44 Am I correct?
10:07:44 >> That's correct.
10:07:45 >> If I may -- and you are an expert, I'm not -- what
10:07:52 type of water would be created for indirect use that
10:07:59 using the reverse osmosis and ultraviolet Rays, and the
10:08:04 end of the production of that water, what is the
10:08:06 contamination of that water?
10:08:08 Maybe there's not, but I'm phrasing it this way,
10:08:12 compared to the Hillsborough River water, and the
10:08:14 intake of water before it's treated at Hillsborough
10:08:21 Tippin plant compared to the Howard Curren, what
10:08:24 contaminations? Do we have an answer for that?
10:08:27 >>> Yes, actually, there was a study conducted by the
10:08:30 water reuse foundation, which is a nonprofit scientific
10:08:37 research group that scanned potential contaminants in
10:08:41 the river water and various reclaimed waters and
10:08:47 compared to some of these further advance treatment
10:08:49 processes with the R.O., and not surprisingly, what you
10:08:55 find normally in the river, I mean, you have animals
10:08:58 and stormwater runoff and greases and other things that
10:09:02 get into the water just naturally, that in a highly
10:09:06 treated reclaimed water, they are removed by the
10:09:09 treatment process.
10:09:12 And that was one of the things that was part of the
10:09:14 original Tampa water resource recovery project, was
10:09:16 also comparing the quality of the river water that's
10:09:20 currently treated by the drinking water facility with
10:09:22 what would be the quality of the purified reclaimed
10:09:27 >> I'm really appreciative of your being here today.
10:09:31 And then there's things in my mind that two hours,
10:09:38 takes two days I guess for us to ask, but two hours I
10:09:42 think for the first time is quite enough.
10:09:45 When you look at Howard Curren, and you look at -- if
10:09:48 everything is status quo, as it is today, with nothing
10:09:51 being done by the City of Tampa, and the population
10:09:55 starts to grow, and now you are dumping 70 million
10:09:58 gallons of water into the bay instead of the amount
10:10:01 that we are doing now.
10:10:03 Isn't there an EPA ruling that is changing, that we
10:10:06 will get a fine or something to the detriment of the
10:10:10 city, and to the amounts that are dumped into after a
10:10:15 certain amount of limits?
10:10:16 >>> Yes, there's two things going on.
10:10:19 One is the Tampa Bay estuary program has met with all
10:10:26 the public agencies and industries that discharge to
10:10:30 Tampa Bay, and they set an innovative program to cap
10:10:35 the amount of nitrogen that's going to the bay.
10:10:38 So the city as part of that, has agreed to capping the
10:10:45 piles of nitrogen which are currently discharged based
10:10:48 on your current rate that you discharge to Tampa Bay.
10:10:53 That said, there's also another effort being conducted
10:10:56 by EPA right now where they are proposing to set new
10:11:01 nutrient standards required for discharge, waters to
10:11:05 the environment, and those nutrient standards are
10:11:08 proposed currently for fresh water to be lower than --
10:11:14 that are in place right now.
10:11:16 They have not set the proposed criteria for discharge
10:11:18 to marine waters yet.
10:11:20 That's supposed to come at the end of the year.
10:11:21 >> And for the record, I agree with that.
10:11:24 I agree that the standard be changed so that the bay
10:11:29 would be better than it is today and we made great
10:11:31 strides by the Howard Curren plant being highly treated
10:11:35 wastewater that was dumped and in essence cleaned the
10:11:37 bay to some degree before the standards all change, and
10:11:41 we are going to have to make an investment at Howard
10:11:43 Curren sometime in the future one way or the other,
10:11:46 whether we use it or not, that water is going to have
10:11:49 to be cleaner going in to the bay.
10:11:51 So then the options are, remain the same, pay the fine,
10:11:55 upgrade the plant to drinking water standards or
10:11:59 indirect reuse, and dump it in the bay, or leave it the
10:12:03 way it is, not dump it fountain way, use it only for
10:12:05 lawns, reclaimed system, or leave it the way it is, not
10:12:11 do the next two, and have it for potable water.
10:12:15 So it's a cost, that either way you look at it,
10:12:18 somewhere in the future, some governmental body, some
10:12:22 mayor -- and this will be a debate, and that's why I am
10:12:28 bringing it up like I feel I should, not only for the
10:12:31 councilmen's race coming up but for the mayoral race
10:12:34 coming up, for the county commission race coming up,
10:12:36 for anyone in the district to debate this issue,
10:12:39 because when you start looking at cost, most important
10:12:45 health, the environment, cost and distribution, it only
10:12:49 points one way.
10:12:51 When you look at the health factors that I have looked
10:12:53 at, through the areas of this type that have had it in
10:12:59 place for many years -- this is not new.
10:13:02 We didn't invent this.
10:13:03 We participated and then we got out because we joined
10:13:06 Tampa Bay water.
10:13:07 There's nothing wrong with that.
10:13:08 Then you look at the cost.
10:13:10 And when you look at the cost of not doing it versus
10:13:13 the cost of doing it, and building a reclaimed system
10:13:15 for 25% of the population, what would that equal to?
10:13:20 A lot more than to bring the plant updated and bring a
10:13:26 pipe from Howard Curren to David Tippin.
10:13:29 However, the schematics like you said so perfectly are
10:13:33 12 years old.
10:13:34 I don't think you can look anymore into the bypass
10:13:38 canal because there are too many hands in there taking
10:13:41 out water.
10:13:41 That's my opinion.
10:13:42 I may be wrong.
10:13:42 There's pilot programs going on in Miami that started
10:13:47 sometime in August or something of '09 and have been
10:13:50 working out with the Biscayne aquifer.
10:13:53 I'm sure you are aware of that.
10:13:55 And there's different things that are related to.
10:13:58 And when you low at electrical costs on productivity of
10:14:01 water, you have, what, surface water first, least, or
10:14:06 one of them.
10:14:06 And second, I believe, is indirect reuse.
10:14:10 The most expensive down the line is desal, for
10:14:14 electrical costs.
10:14:14 Am I correct?
10:14:16 >>> That's correct.
10:14:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So we are heading in the right
10:14:20 direction, whether we get there or not in my opinion
10:14:22 will be up to the voters, if we pass this sometime in
10:14:24 the future, which I am not going to pass it today or
10:14:27 not even going to ask for it to be passed today until
10:14:30 we have a full council.
10:14:31 I think it's that important for all the individuals to
10:14:34 But I will reserve my questions for later.
10:14:36 This is a two-hour thing and I don't want to tab any
10:14:39 more of my portion than I do have now.
10:14:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
10:14:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You might have mentioned this
10:14:46 I was out of the room.
10:14:49 You have an estimated cost back then, do you have an
10:14:52 estimated cost right now on the total project?
10:14:55 >>> No.
10:14:56 And councilman Miranda's comments are correct in that
10:15:00 if you would estimate the project today you would
10:15:03 really need to look at a lot of things, different
10:15:06 things in depth in order to do a fair estimate.
10:15:10 >> What was the estimated cost when you were looking at
10:15:13 >>> We looked at project sizes between I think 25
10:15:17 million gallons a day to 50 million gallons a day, and
10:15:21 they were about is hundred million to about 150
10:15:24 >> How long ago was that?
10:15:26 >> 1998.
10:15:27 12 years ago.
10:15:28 So those costs would be different today.
10:15:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
10:15:34 I'm looking at page 7 of our reclaimed water master
10:15:41 plan that the city commissioned this past year.
10:15:45 Are you up on this?
10:15:46 Or is this --
10:15:49 >>> No, Mr. Daignault.
10:15:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Steve, I'm reading your Greeley
10:16:00 Hanson report in the executive summary and it just
10:16:05 types by cost.
10:16:05 He would won't get distracted on the health issues.
10:16:08 But the conclusion says, shared cost was assumed which
10:16:14 would decrease the city's share of the project cost to
10:16:17 $261 million.
10:16:18 This amount can be further reduced to $130 million
10:16:21 through funding agreements with SWFWMD.
10:16:23 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: If it's this past reclaimed master
10:16:34 plan, it was not for reuse.
10:16:36 And it was not for reuse for potable purposes.
10:16:38 It was, what do we do, or how could we fully utilize
10:16:43 our reclaimed water within the city?
10:16:45 >> And it's the same reclaimed water we are talking
10:16:48 It's like -- I mean, I understand.
10:16:53 My point is, I think we need to have a bigger
10:16:56 I think Mr. Miranda brings up some great points.
10:16:58 This community is going to have to come to grips with
10:17:00 this water, reclaimed -- treated waters that we are
10:17:05 dumping into the bay to the tune of 50 million gallons
10:17:08 a day plus.
10:17:10 And we are putting potable water on most of our yards,
10:17:14 drinking water on most of our yards, to the tune of how
10:17:18 many millions of gallons a day depends on the time of
10:17:21 year, but tens of millions of gallons a day, sometimes
10:17:26 a lot more than that.
10:17:29 We are doing that right now, okay.
10:17:31 And neither of those are good, okay.
10:17:35 It's not good for us to be dumping that valuable
10:17:38 resource into the bay.
10:17:41 And it's not good for the bay.
10:17:42 And it's not good for to us treat this water to
10:17:46 drinkable levels and then put it on our yards.
10:17:51 I mean, that's just a basic -- that's silly.
10:17:55 It's what we have been doing for years.
10:17:56 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Correct.
10:17:58 At some time the cost of treating that water and making
10:18:00 it potable is expensive.
10:18:04 >> And, Mr. Miranda, I commend you.
10:18:06 I mean, I think that having this discussion is
10:18:09 But I think that we have to expand the discussion to
10:18:12 just say, what direction are we going to go?
10:18:15 Are we going to take that water, that treated water,
10:18:21 put it through the UV, the filtration and everything
10:18:23 else, and put it in a bypass canal, put it up river,
10:18:27 treat it again and then drink it?
10:18:28 Or the other alternative, which is -- how much did he
10:18:33 would pay for this master plan, Steve?
10:18:35 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I think it was $140,000.
10:18:37 >> So we take $140 thousand for this master plan, which
10:18:41 is looks like it's a couple hundred pages thick, and
10:18:44 the conclusion says that if we work with our neighbors,
10:18:48 and we work with SWFWMD, for $130 million, or $131
10:18:54 million, we can do an extensive reclaimed water program
10:18:58 and put this reclaimed water onto the yards.
10:19:04 >>> What the report says, correct.
10:19:06 Given the parameters of what we gave for them to use,
10:19:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda.
10:19:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:19:16 Let me say this.
10:19:17 That's true and not true.
10:19:19 Because the only points to a specific area of amount of
10:19:25 property, not to the total 25% that the reclaimed, in
10:19:29 my estimation, would be available, too.
10:19:33 The report also state taking a pipeline all the way
10:19:38 north to New Tampa, and for 130 million, all of that?
10:19:41 >>> Mike Smith.
10:19:47 I'm from CVM.
10:19:49 And CVM was commissioned to do this master plan, and
10:19:58 the scope of this work was to take a look at how we
10:20:00 could -- how we can use, reuse, the existing highly
10:20:05 treated reclaimed water that came from Howard F.
10:20:10 The costs in the conclusion here that Mr. Dingfelder is
10:20:13 referring to are related to trying to create a
10:20:19 distribution system to put that reclaimed water with no
10:20:25 further treatment than what Howard F. Curren is already
10:20:27 putting on there.
10:20:28 To put that onto residential yards.
10:20:30 And the total cost of doing that, of the recommended,
10:20:34 was $340 million, something like that.
10:20:38 Then with co-founding from other agencies, the city's
10:20:41 cost would be $130.
10:20:44 >> That's what I want to get on the record.
10:20:45 But the conversation was really diluted by the facts
10:20:50 were not presented the way they were asked.
10:20:52 So I knew in my mind that my estimation -- I'm not an
10:20:56 engineer -- would be somewhere pushing 400 million.
10:20:59 >> Correct.
10:21:00 >> And I'm not an engineer, but I can tell you that by
10:21:04 bringing up the Howard Curren to a drinkable water
10:21:06 standard -- and by the way, what proportion of water
10:21:10 that goes into the Howard Curren treatment plant is
10:21:13 pure water?
10:21:17 90-some percent if.
10:21:19 >> Ask that question again?
10:21:21 >> What percent of the water going into the plant is
10:21:23 pure water?
10:21:29 >>> 99.9.
10:21:32 >> That means drinkable water.
10:21:34 So going in, I think I know what I am getting at.
10:21:39 I'm not sure because I get, you know, depending on the
10:21:45 But what I'm saying is, we are trying to clean up
10:21:48 something that's almost clean.
10:21:50 If I was asking the same thing of the river water, they
10:21:56 have pharmaceuticals, they have feces, they have
10:21:57 They have dead fish.
10:21:59 They have alligators.
10:22:01 If I show you the drinking water, you would throw up.
10:22:05 But at the end of the day, because of the technology
10:22:08 that's happened, and the forefathers of this city, when
10:22:12 it was downtown here, two or three million gallons a
10:22:16 day when the city was 20 or 30,000 people living here,
10:22:19 they had the foresight to build the dam, they had the
10:22:23 foresight to build the water plant, they had the
10:22:25 foresight to build the water distribution system.
10:22:28 And we are talking about many things, not only one.
10:22:31 And I'm not the leader of this.
10:22:34 This is something that you have to look forward to, 50
10:22:37 years from now, not for today, not for the next
10:22:39 election, but you have to tell the public the facts.
10:22:42 And the facts are if we continue in this mode that we
10:22:46 are in, and continue dumping in the bay and growth
10:22:50 comes, you are going to get five equal to or greater
10:22:54 than the amounts that it would take to make this thing
10:22:56 work at 100 percent without any infection, without any
10:23:01 disease being spread, because if it did happen that
10:23:03 there was some, there would be millions of people in
10:23:07 America dead from the AquaCon river valley, the lake
10:23:13 Lanier project, the project in Orange County,
10:23:15 California where 70 million gallons, the project in
10:23:17 Miami, the projects in different states of the midwest,
10:23:21 more and more projects in California, Israel,
10:23:24 Australia, South Africa, they would be all dead.
10:23:30 So we are really fooling ourselves and the mechanisms
10:23:32 by which we present these cases.
10:23:35 The case facts are, there is no microbes.
10:23:38 That was stated in the FSU symposium that we had that
10:23:44 Mrs. Saul-Sena so kindly attended with PATEL saying on
10:23:52 response from the audience, and the aquifer after
10:23:54 treated downstairs takes a different filtration,
10:24:01 because they had sand, we have limerock.
10:24:03 What were the microbes?
10:24:05 The answer was none.
10:24:07 In other words, couldn't find any.
10:24:08 And we had gone from treating something one in a
10:24:12 What is one in a million?
10:24:13 One in a million is one part of something in a coffee
10:24:18 What is one in a million?
10:24:19 One in a billion is one particle of something in a
10:24:24 swimming pool.
10:24:25 What is one in a trillion?
10:24:27 That's what we have now in technology that we can check
10:24:29 for detection of some level.
10:24:33 What part of something in the reservoir?
10:24:36 So we have advanced in technology a long way.
10:24:42 And now it's up to us humans to understand that if we
10:24:47 were killing ourselves, the life expectancy of the 1900
10:24:50 was about 60 years old.
10:24:52 The life expectancy today as I look in the audience,
10:24:56 there's a couple of us, approaching 75.
10:24:59 So, I mean, life expectancy from the 1990s.
10:25:06 So have we killed anyone?
10:25:07 I don't think so.
10:25:10 I think there's been more auto wrecks and things of
10:25:14 that nature than anything else.
10:25:16 Science hasn't killed no one.
10:25:17 People kill themselves.
10:25:18 Thank you, Madam Chair.
10:25:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions by council members?
10:25:22 >>> We have the next presentation while we still have
10:25:29 Mr. WATT here.
10:25:31 >> To bring up the next presentation, the Southwest
10:25:33 Florida Water Management District completed a study in
10:25:36 2009 to examine how reclaimed water could be used to
10:25:40 recharge aquifers in the Tampa Bay region, to improve
10:25:44 the water levels and the depleted groundwater basins
10:25:49 and to allow for potential additional development in
10:25:52 My firm WH completed the study for the Southwest
10:25:54 Florida Water Management District, and I was also the
10:25:57 project manager of that.
10:26:01 And this presentation follows as well with some of the
10:26:04 discussions and questions we just had.
10:26:12 The project study area -- it impacts to water level and
10:26:18 the potential for salt water intrusion.
10:26:21 And on this figure, the southern water use caution area
10:26:24 is shown as that gray-green cross-hatching area
10:26:28 covering your Hillsborough, a lot of Polk County.
10:26:31 Hardee, and into Manatee and Sarasota counties.
10:26:34 The area greatest water level decline is called the
10:26:37 most impacted area, and that's shown in green on this
10:26:40 And in this area, groundwater levels have declined over
10:26:44 40 feet.
10:26:48 So the study looked at two basic concepts of aquifer
10:26:53 recharge using reclaimed water.
10:26:54 In other words, two basic ways of using reclaimed water
10:26:57 to improve aquifer water levels.
10:27:00 The first concept is what we call indirect aquifer
10:27:03 And this is where reclaimed water is spread out in
10:27:07 ponds to slowly drain to the aquifer, and these ponds
10:27:11 are called rapid infiltration basins, or ribs for
10:27:15 The second type of recharge is called direct aquifer
10:27:20 And this is where reclaimed water is injected into the
10:27:24 aquifer directly through recharge wells.
10:27:28 Direct and indirect recharge with reclaimed water is
10:27:33 done in a number of locations in the United States and
10:27:35 around the world.
10:27:37 This graphic shows a schematic, the Orange County,
10:27:40 California, system.
10:27:41 And Orange County uses both indirect recharge through
10:27:45 ponds, and direct recharge using wells.
10:27:49 And the direct recharge is shown on the left-hand side
10:27:53 of this figure.
10:27:54 They have a series of wells that -- a sea water
10:27:59 intrusion barrier for I guess the Pacific ocean coming
10:28:03 into the basin, and to the right at the very top they
10:28:06 have infiltration ponds.
10:28:08 And in between the two types of recharge, there's a
10:28:11 number of withdrawal wells that are used for water
10:28:15 And the aquifer recharge with reclaimed water allows
10:28:18 them to withdraw more groundwater than they would
10:28:21 normally be able to obtain.
10:28:22 >> How much rain do they get in Orange County?
10:28:27 >> Not very much.
10:28:28 Not as much as we do.
10:28:30 I would hate to throw out a number.
10:28:32 But I'm sure it's like 20 inches a year maybe.
10:28:35 >> What do we get?
10:28:37 >> Over 50.
10:28:40 In Florida, we have a number of indirect aquifer
10:28:42 recharge applications.
10:28:44 The largest system is in Orange County, Florida, and
10:28:46 it's called the concept 2 project.
10:28:49 This project covers over 2,000 acres and recharges
10:28:52 approximately 40 million gallons a day of reclaimed
10:28:54 water to the Florida aquifer.
10:28:56 You can see on the photo here, this shows the recharge
10:28:58 ponds that are used.
10:28:59 You can see they are spread out over this 2,000-acre
10:29:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What is wetland polishing?
10:29:12 >> Oh, that would be some of the ponds, for Orange
10:29:15 County, they actually discharge the reclaimed water to
10:29:18 a wetland first, where it would flow slowly through the
10:29:25 vegetation before it goes to the pond and recharge the
10:29:27 >> Just generally, isn't that a better -- a more subtle
10:29:31 way to do it than just shooting it right down?
10:29:34 >> Yes.
10:29:34 >> Because it allows for sort of a natural filtration
10:29:37 system through the --
10:29:40 >>> Yes.
10:29:40 And the plants take up the nutrients that are in the
10:29:43 reclaimed water, and help purify it a little further.
10:29:51 The Florida department of environmental protection
10:29:53 regulates reclaimed water, recharge projects in
10:29:57 And the treatment requirements for the reclaimed water
10:30:01 increase as you move from the indirect to the direct
10:30:03 type of projects.
10:30:05 So typically the indirect recharge projects would use a
10:30:09 similar treatment to like what Howard Curren uses.
10:30:14 A number of projects don't treat the level of Howard
10:30:16 Curren does in terms of the removing the nutrients but
10:30:20 they still make sure there's in a bacteria or viruses
10:30:23 in the water.
10:30:25 Direct recharge to brackish or fresh water aquifers
10:30:28 will require advanced treatment technologies like we
10:30:32 just talked about earlier with the indirect potable
10:30:34 reuse projects.
10:30:37 So what's being done at the California projects that
10:30:40 directly inject into the aquifer is they do
10:30:42 microfiltration, followed by reverse osmosis, then do
10:30:47 ultraviolet light with hydrogen peroxides for the
10:30:52 And then that's California. In the State of Florida,
10:30:55 if you are directly injecting into brackish or fresh
10:30:59 water aquifers would require these types of advance
10:31:01 level treatment for that to occur.
10:31:07 The study we did for SWFWMD I can mention was completed
10:31:11 in 2009, and the study determined that it is possible
10:31:13 to improve aquifer water levels and achieve a net
10:31:19 benefit, improvement in those water levels, and still
10:31:22 allow for some additional groundwater development.
10:31:25 And since we completed that study, various utilities
10:31:30 and governments are looking at potential projects to
10:31:32 study in more detail site-specific aquifer projects, in
10:31:37 the SWFWMD, the geography covered by SWFWMD.
10:31:42 So with that I would be happy to address any questions.
10:31:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena.
10:31:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:31:54 This is so important to our future.
10:31:57 And I find it absolutely fascinating and really
10:32:01 It seems to me that there are like several critical
10:32:03 parts to this.
10:32:04 One is the methods we choose to treat the water.
10:32:08 And then of equal importance, what do we do would it
10:32:12 after it's treated because there are different
10:32:14 implications whether it goes into was it a polishing
10:32:20 wetland versus a direct injection into our aquifer.
10:32:23 Those are two vastly different scenarios.
10:32:26 And I think that this is probably one of the key issues
10:32:30 facing us.
10:32:32 And I feel that I have learned a lot and I foal that I
10:32:35 noticed to learn more.
10:32:36 I appreciate your being here today.
10:32:38 And I would love to have a future conversation about
10:32:41 the implications of the different scenarios after we do
10:32:45 the treatment, and also the implications of increasing
10:32:50 our -- using water for irrigation.
10:33:01 And I don't know that we need to make a choice that's
10:33:07 It could be a both-and.
10:33:10 And I think we need more information.
10:33:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
10:33:13 would like to speak?
10:33:14 You may come up and speak now.
10:33:29 >> John Spann.
10:33:32 I live in sun bay south.
10:33:34 And I have to tell you folks somebody that's an unpaid
10:33:38 consultant in the project that I heard today has been
10:33:40 extremely encouraging to me.
10:33:44 I have got so much top say in such a short time.
10:33:47 The core factors which presented ample documentation
10:33:50 is, the current reclaimed water damages and kills a
10:33:54 vast number of landscape plants.
10:33:56 Linda Saul-Sena, if you watched Friday, the property on
10:34:00 Davis Island, which we have taken care of organically,
10:34:06 within six months, roses dying, lawn quality, one
10:34:09 citrus tree is on its last leg.
10:34:12 I have gotten tons of feedback from other people.
10:34:16 The last presentation, I gave you all a very long list
10:34:19 of plants in danger by this water.
10:34:21 The University of Florida.
10:34:22 So it's not just anecdotal.
10:34:27 I'm committed to recycling as a life-long resident
10:34:30 here, believes in recycling, but the water -- and I
10:34:34 love what Mr. Miranda said.
10:34:36 Why let a vast network of piping tear up the street
10:34:42 over a number of years to distribute water which kills
10:34:44 plants which is why the program is so unpopular as
10:34:47 opposed to let's process it one more time, and get it
10:34:51 into the aquifer one way or the other.
10:34:53 It saves money.
10:34:54 It's not a question of, okay, we can't afford to do it
10:34:57 And we basically can't afford to do it wrong.
10:35:00 And I would hope that you will consider your legacy
10:35:03 living here the rest of your life like me.
10:35:05 Do you want a Tampa 20 years from now that has no oaks
10:35:09 that has no citrus?
10:35:13 I am just really encouraged by what I have seen here
10:35:16 I want to thank the people who look further into it.
10:35:19 I would also like to add nitrogen fertilizer.
10:35:22 You guys are getting ready to restrict it and I'm glad.
10:35:26 But what you probably don't know is some people are
10:35:27 keeping their lawns presentable, St. Augustine lawns,
10:35:30 by using very high nitrogen formulation,
10:35:33 especially 23-3-3. If these people are denied access
10:35:38 to either a 16-4-8 or 23-3-3, the masking effect is
10:35:42 going to be lost and they are going to see what the
10:35:44 current reclaimed actually does to their grass.
10:35:48 That's it.
10:35:49 Any questions?
10:35:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:35:55 >> Myron Anderson.
10:35:58 I am here -- 5007 west San Jose street.
10:36:03 I would like to just talk about this whole thing with
10:36:05 the reclaimed water.
10:36:06 I went to the workshop a week ago Monday.
10:36:10 And one of the things that didn't somehow get reported
10:36:12 was the statement by Paula dye from Tampa water in
10:36:17 which she talked about how the demand is flat, because
10:36:21 of the economy we are not getting new houses built,
10:36:24 obviously like we were before, and the reservoir is at
10:36:29 capacity with all the rains.
10:36:30 I have lived in Florida almost all my life, and I have
10:36:33 never seen so much rain in January and February.
10:36:35 I don't know about the rest of you but I haven't.
10:36:40 And Paula Dye got up there and said we have enough
10:36:42 water to last us through 2019.
10:36:46 So that's a decade.
10:36:48 Since we are at the beginning of 2010.
10:36:50 So we have that, coupled with another factor, which is
10:36:55 Cone Ranch, and from my understanding on Cone Ranch --
10:37:00 and I talked to the environmentalists about this -- has
10:37:04 wetlands that can be restored at a minimal cost, and
10:37:10 ditches that were put in there many, many years ago,
10:37:12 and if these wetlands were restored, Cone Ranch, which
10:37:17 supplies 35% of the water to the Hillsborough River,
10:37:21 would end up supplying a lot more water.
10:37:24 In addition, the wetlands would actually consume some
10:37:27 of the nitrogen that you find in the Hillsborough
10:37:32 My feeling is Tampa Bay water combined with this Cone
10:37:38 Ranch development which is now getting preserved and
10:37:41 now we can restore the wetlands.
10:37:43 I don't see this water crisis that's being promoted.
10:37:46 I just don't see it.
10:37:47 And the other factor in all of this is that we can't
10:37:51 afford an extensive reverse osmosis plant that's going
10:37:56 to cost us -- it's going to be at least a couple
10:37:59 hundred million dollars from what I understand, and
10:38:01 then who knows, 250, 300 by the time we get done.
10:38:04 We can't afford it.
10:38:05 You have seen the recent information on the budget for
10:38:10 We have got, what $27 million we have to figure out how
10:38:13 to cover.
10:38:15 How are we going to do this?
10:38:16 We don't have the money for this.
10:38:17 The only thing that I also would like to say is that I
10:38:20 understand the problem where the EPA and the potential
10:38:24 fines and all that stuff.
10:38:25 But what you could do on that, from my understanding,
10:38:27 is using our existing Howard F. Curren facility.
10:38:31 We can add additional microbe filters or membranes to
10:38:36 trap more of the nitrogen that's going into the bay and
10:38:39 get it down to the EPA standards at a fraction of the
10:38:42 cost for what it would cost to put in this whole
10:38:45 extensive reclaimed water to potable water system that
10:38:49 you are talking about.
10:38:50 So my feeling on this is that we don't really have a
10:38:53 water crisis, we don't need to spend this money.
10:38:57 I feel that this is something that should be put off to
10:39:01 some future council five years from now, ten years from
10:39:05 now, if and when we do get a water shortage, which I
10:39:09 don't think we will with Cone Ranch.
10:39:11 And I ask that you let somebody else deal with this
10:39:16 particular situation and let it go.
10:39:18 Don't worry about getting the voters to vote on it or
10:39:21 We don't need this system.
10:39:24 And they are probably not going to vote for it anyway.
10:39:28 That's it.
10:39:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to make a statement, not
10:39:31 directly to any question.
10:39:32 But if this was last year, '09, and February, March,
10:39:37 April and May, would the same statements be made?
10:39:40 Absolutely not.
10:39:41 I don't control the weather.
10:39:42 I don't control the amount of rain.
10:39:44 I don't control where it falls.
10:39:46 I mean, the whole city doesn't do that.
10:39:48 Let's talk about cost.
10:39:49 On the record today, you stated 380 some million for
10:39:54 reclaimed system.
10:39:56 I would say close to 4 but let's not dispute that.
10:40:00 So we save 200 million and have an adequate water
10:40:03 supply for many years to come.
10:40:07 If there's no planning for the future -- and Ms. Dye
10:40:13 here and I don't want to debate her.
10:40:15 She's a very intelligent young lady who knows much more
10:40:17 about water and so forth than I do.
10:40:19 But everything is perfect today.
10:40:20 Two years from now, yeah, that's in the back.
10:40:25 Everybody is turning their head.
10:40:27 Two years from now, or so, we are going to have a
10:40:30 letdown in the reservoir for repairs.
10:40:36 Maybe another two years before it's completed.
10:40:38 So what I'm saying is, you look at things today, and
10:40:44 you forget what happened yesterday, because that's on
10:40:47 the how the minds of we Americans work.
10:40:51 We have so much that we forget that we use 90 million
10:40:54 on average where the world uses about 9.
10:40:58 9 gallons a day.
10:40:59 We use 90 gallons a day.
10:41:01 Well, that's nice.
10:41:02 So if it there was no crisis coming, meaning that the
10:41:05 population will exceed the water, the population is not
10:41:09 going to stay stagnant.
10:41:10 America will grow by over is hundred million people in
10:41:13 the next four decades.
10:41:14 So what are we going to do?
10:41:16 Stay still?
10:41:18 Is that the answer?
10:41:19 Close your eyes?
10:41:20 Don't move forward?
10:41:22 Is that the answer?
10:41:24 So then I'm saying to myself, if that was all true,
10:41:30 then Tampa Bay water would decrease their water from 60
10:41:34 million to 99 million and save 250 million.
10:41:36 But they are looking forward.
10:41:38 And I commend them for that.
10:41:41 You must also look forward.
10:41:43 I must also look forward.
10:41:44 We must also look forward.
10:41:47 We can't continue to stay still.
10:41:53 It's going to happen.
10:41:54 Whether it happens in my lifetime, depending on how
10:41:59 long I live, or not.
10:42:01 It's for the future.
10:42:02 It's not for today.
10:42:04 Any elected official that thinks just for today, more
10:42:07 than offensive years from now, shouldn't be in office.
10:42:10 Including myself.
10:42:14 Thank you, Madam Chair.
10:42:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern.
10:42:17 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
10:42:19 Mr. Miranda, I appreciate your leadership and planning.
10:42:23 And we are not famous for doing things first, Tampa or
10:42:29 Hillsborough County.
10:42:30 So I really appreciate all the work that everyone is
10:42:32 doing on this.
10:42:33 And to Mr. Anderson, I just have to say the rain is
10:42:39 from El Nino, and we did have three years of drought
10:42:43 before that.
10:42:44 And the other thing we need to think about is on the
10:42:49 global level, and the national level, the water
10:42:51 shortages are going to be incredible.
10:42:53 So we are going to have people moving here.
10:42:54 Because we have water.
10:42:56 So I think we are suffering from the development and
10:43:01 the overuse of land for agriculture, that more water
10:43:09 evaporating, we are going to have water shortage
10:43:13 We aren't the first.
10:43:15 We won't be.
10:43:15 But people in the southwest are going to be moving in
10:43:20 this direction.
10:43:20 So I think I agree with Mr. Miranda.
10:43:23 We should be planning and not waiting.
10:43:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Charlie, I'm glad when we can agree
10:43:33 because you are absolutely right.
10:43:34 When you talk about issues like water, population --
10:43:40 (laughter) --
10:43:44 When you talk about issues like water and population
10:43:48 growth, you have got to look 30 years in advance.
10:43:50 You have got to look 50 years in advance.
10:43:52 And that's what these planning documents do.
10:43:54 And we worry about these things all the time.
10:43:56 And we have to.
10:43:57 Weep can't look in the short term.
10:43:58 We can't look now between today or not raining
10:44:02 Because we all know that these things are cyclical, and
10:44:06 some years we have droughts and some years we have
10:44:09 That's Florida.
10:44:14 But this city, including this council, took a step last
10:44:17 year, and we paid $100,000 to produce very smart
10:44:23 consultants to put together a long-term water plan.
10:44:26 And I read through this several times.
10:44:28 I think it's very, very sound.
10:44:29 The number I was speaking to is the estimated cost to
10:44:33 the City of Tampa.
10:44:35 And that was $130 million.
10:44:37 The total cost approached the $400 million.
10:44:41 But according to the consultant, according to Mr.
10:44:43 Daignault, those costs could be shared, and the region
10:44:46 with SWFWMD could be shared in the smaller region with
10:44:49 Tampa Bay water, taking our costs down to more in the
10:44:53 $130 million range.
10:44:54 So many I don't mean to try and confuse anybody on
10:45:02 On all these important decisions, you travel a road,
10:45:07 and then you come to forks in the road, and you have to
10:45:10 make the decision.
10:45:12 In this case, and this is wherein we probably do differ
10:45:15 a little bit, is the fork in the road, I would rather
10:45:19 take, our toilet water and put it on our lawns than
10:45:24 take our toilet water and put it on our taps.
10:45:26 And I think that that is the might be the philosophical
10:45:30 difference, it might be a monetary difference, but I
10:45:32 think at the end of the day, if that's a decision to be
10:45:35 made in our community, I think that that's the decision
10:45:37 that we make, and if we put anything on the ballot I
10:45:40 think we should put those two questions on the ballot.
10:45:43 In other words, because it really sounds like the
10:45:46 moneys, it might be pretty similar.
10:45:48 You are talking about several hundred millions of big
10:45:51 But if the community is going to make a decision, let's
10:45:54 say -- I didn't get your name.
10:46:03 Phil acknowledged that this master plan, or the other
10:46:08 gentleman actually spoke to it, this master plan speaks
10:46:10 to a different approach.
10:46:12 It speaks to a distribution system to put our treated
10:46:17 water out on our yards, okay, instead of putting our
10:46:21 treated water in our taps.
10:46:23 And the other thing I wanted to point out -- and I
10:46:26 think we have to think about this out of fairness,
10:46:29 too -- if we put it on the ballot, we probably don't
10:46:33 have the authority to put it on the municipal ballot.
10:46:37 Those are only half of our customers.
10:46:39 The other half of our customers live in the county,
10:46:42 Town and country and elsewhere in the county.
10:46:45 And we service them with drinking water.
10:46:49 They wouldn't get a vote on this at all.
10:46:50 The rates would go up.
10:46:52 And they would be drinking this treated, extra-treated
10:46:57 water, but they wouldn't get a vote on it and I don't
10:46:59 know that that's fair.
10:47:01 The last point I wanted to make is at the end of the
10:47:03 day, we have built a reservoir out in the east county.
10:47:07 We have a lot of land out in the east county.
10:47:10 We get 50 inches of rain a year, okay, and one of the
10:47:15 things we are doing with it is we are putting it in the
10:47:19 I think that Tampa Bay water and this region should
10:47:23 consider building another reservoir, just like they do
10:47:26 all over the world.
10:47:27 That's a very passive system.
10:47:28 It's a very low-energy use system.
10:47:32 Because one of the things that concerns me greatly is
10:47:34 this system and those cost estimates 12, 15 years ago,
10:47:39 that's a high energy system.
10:47:41 When you are talking about reverse osmosis, from the
10:47:44 little bit I do remember and from what I see over at
10:47:46 the dough Sal facility, which I believe is an osmosis
10:47:49 facility, it's a very high energy system in terms of
10:47:55 That's where we get oil or coal, wherever we get our
10:47:58 energy from.
10:47:58 Over the years, over the next 10, 20, 30, 40 years,
10:48:02 what do we know about the cost and availability of
10:48:05 What do we know about the greenhouse gases that are
10:48:10 associated with the production of that energy?
10:48:12 You think these are all factors the community would
10:48:14 have to take into consideration.
10:48:15 Bottom line is, I'm not adverse to necessarily putting
10:48:17 this on the ballot as sort of a broad question type of
10:48:21 But I think it's fair that we would put both questions
10:48:24 on the ballot at some point to say, which is your
10:48:27 preference to our community?
10:48:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda.
10:48:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:48:32 Thank you for those kind comments.
10:48:34 But the fork in the road was invented by Johnny Carson.
10:48:38 And was carried on by Ed McMahon.
10:48:41 But the 200 million that I threw out, seeing who would
10:48:48 bite on it, did bite on it because that also doesn't
10:48:51 include any moneys that we would get from SWFWMD, if
10:48:53 the project was approved, or by the federal government,
10:48:56 or something of this nature.
10:48:58 So that also would be sliced in half.
10:49:00 After all, it is your money.
10:49:04 Let me talk about independence.
10:49:07 When you control your own water supply, you, the great
10:49:12 citizens of this community in essence control your own
10:49:14 water cost to some degree.
10:49:17 Certainly you have financing, chemicals, overhead.
10:49:22 So the department has to carry its own weight.
10:49:25 That's no sharing of revenues.
10:49:26 It must carry its own weight.
10:49:28 So what I'm saying is, again looking at the future, I
10:49:32 said it back in the 90s, water is going to be like
10:49:35 oil, scarce and expensive.
10:49:38 And I'm saying it again.
10:49:40 And if you don't have your own production of water, you
10:49:45 are going to be at the mercy of someone else.
10:49:51 Just like we are at the mercy of someone else for oil.
10:49:55 We don't have the right, because we don't have the oil
10:50:00 to produce.
10:50:02 In the city.
10:50:03 But we do have the water.
10:50:04 What is the cost of not doing anything?
10:50:07 Right now, only the water in the rivers and the lakes
10:50:11 belong to the state.
10:50:13 That doesn't mean in the near future that won't change
10:50:16 in the legislature.
10:50:18 Where we claimed water, a byproduct of water, becomes
10:50:22 also waters of the state.
10:50:24 Then this argument becomes moot.
10:50:27 Then the cost of water is whatever anybody else wants
10:50:30 to charge you for it.
10:50:32 So what I'm saying is, don't be misled by
10:50:39 Follow yourselves to your own destiny.
10:50:44 And costs, I don't mind paying more if at somewhere in
10:50:48 the future that's going to be paid off.
10:50:50 You see, people lose their houses and automobiles
10:50:53 because they get in debt.
10:50:55 Those that are smart only get in debt to a certain
10:50:58 amount of their income so at some point in history, in
10:51:02 their life, they can own those assets and be rid of the
10:51:07 And that's exactly what I'm looking at.
10:51:09 I'm not looking to put the City of Tampa in debt.
10:51:11 If I went the other way, just for reclaimed, it would
10:51:14 be twice the cost for 25% of the population, to have
10:51:17 the water to put on lawns.
10:51:18 Oh, that's -- and I'm one of the fathers of reclaimed
10:51:23 with the past administration.
10:51:25 Did we help out?
10:51:26 Yes, we did.
10:51:30 Does it change?
10:51:31 Yes, it has.
10:51:32 Technology is here.
10:51:36 The work that those engineers have done during their
10:51:38 life, the changing and the operation, even that would
10:51:41 show today in '98 is extinct, not used anymore.
10:51:45 It used this reclaim system for reuse would be exactly
10:51:50 based on the same fundamental scientific evaluation as
10:51:54 a desal plant.
10:51:57 What comes out of desal plant?
10:52:00 Pure is hundred percent drinking water that has to be
10:52:07 It's the same thing coming out of Howard Curren.
10:52:09 You couldn't drink it because it tastes absolutely
10:52:12 It's so pure that you are used to drinking the type of
10:52:16 water we have everywhere.
10:52:18 You buy bottled water at the store.
10:52:21 Most of it comes from somebody else.
10:52:24 It doesn't come from no spring in Arkansas or Colorado
10:52:27 or somewhere.
10:52:28 It's bottled and put through a processing for a little
10:52:32 taste and a little charcoal, whatever, and you buy it
10:52:35 at $1.49 a quart.
10:52:37 Oh, that's nice.
10:52:38 And we sell it at $1.30 for 748 gallons.
10:52:45 So what I'm saying is, be prudent with yourselves.
10:52:50 Look forward in advance, because you are going to have
10:52:51 the same water problems that you have today with oil,
10:52:54 unless because you are going to lose that valuable
10:52:59 asset, you are going to lose that commodity, and
10:53:01 history tells me the time is on their side, because we.
10:53:05 Acted in many, many years.
10:53:07 Thank you, Madam Chair.
10:53:08 >>GWEN MILLER: We have another speaker.
10:53:10 Sir, you may come up and spend now.
10:53:11 >> Thank you Madam Chair.
10:53:16 My name is for the record my name is Hungh Muy. 14031
10:53:22 North Dale Mabry, and I was with the Hillsborough board
10:53:27 with the SWFWMD for a year appointed by the governor.
10:53:32 What I am telling the City Council today, I don't know
10:53:37 whether you are aware about a few months ago EPA
10:53:41 imposed to the State of Florida a value, that D.E.P.
10:53:53 fighting with EPA right now, you know, if we fail, the
10:54:04 wastewater different much higher standard than do right
10:54:11 The new standard from EPA much, much lower, regardless
10:54:17 whether you fail to appeal to EPA, you have to do the
10:54:23 R.O. and U.V. inspection anyway.
10:54:27 So the costs, around the State of Florida, is very
10:54:37 So the question is that you get the water back anyway,
10:54:45 so what are you going to do with that water?
10:54:47 So you might ask the staff to present to you the E.P.A.
10:54:52 degree right now and D.E.P., you might ask the D.E.P.
10:54:57 to come in and show you what they find right now with
10:55:01 So my question is that you can treat that water to the
10:55:07 high degree of drinking anyway.
10:55:09 What are you going to do with that?
10:55:11 You can put it on the lawn.
10:55:12 Or you can but it back to drinking water.
10:55:15 That is the question we have to put out.
10:55:17 And what I look at do he would reuse the water, because
10:55:22 that becomes a very valuable resource.
10:55:25 So that we can withdraw the groundwater.
10:55:30 Thank you so much.
10:55:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
10:55:34 If you want to speak, come up and speak.
10:55:36 You can't speak again.
10:55:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:55:39 A couple of points.
10:55:40 The consensus is we obviously can't keep dumping our
10:55:43 reclaimed in the water -- in the bay because it has too
10:55:46 much nitrogen.
10:55:47 We have to do something with it.
10:55:50 I want to address the issue that John Stearns brought
10:55:54 up about the salt in our reclaimed that we are now
10:55:56 putting on our yards, and that is that we need to do
10:55:59 more in terms of education.
10:56:00 I would like to ask Mr. Baird, the head of our water
10:56:04 department, you don't have to come up and speak, I just
10:56:06 wanted to ask you to do another information session for
10:56:12 people had who have reclaimed water to make them aware
10:56:15 of some of the implications for their landscaping,
10:56:19 because they might not be aware of the impact of all
10:56:24 the salt in the reclaimed.
10:56:26 And I would like you to see if there's any ability to
10:56:28 cut back on it a bit, because what Mr. Stearn showed me
10:56:34 were painful examples of landscaping being negatively
10:56:38 impacted by the reclaimed, and that we need to make
10:56:40 people aware of that even as they sign up.
10:56:42 And the lists that we are providing them is, I think,
10:56:45 not as extensive as it needs to be in people
10:56:50 understanding the impact on their yards.
10:56:52 It's best for turf, I think.
10:56:55 Suffice it to say.
10:56:57 What is our next step, fellow council members?
10:57:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
10:57:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I think what lind -- didn't
10:57:08 want to leave what Linda said dangling out there
10:57:10 because we do have educational issues on the current
10:57:13 reclaimed water system.
10:57:15 And we have been fighting with those for a while.
10:57:16 So, Brad, if you could come up, or your experts on
10:57:24 When we first started the distributing the star 1
10:57:28 water, you know, our phones were ringing off the hook
10:57:31 and there were a lot of questions, a lot of concerns,
10:57:33 and that sort of thing.
10:57:34 I have to tell you anecdotally that my phones quit
10:57:38 ringing in that regard.
10:57:39 I mean, I will say would see Mr. Stearns pretty
10:57:43 regularly and two or three others.
10:57:45 But as a whole, I think the completes have gone down.
10:57:49 I think knowledge has gone up in terms of the type of
10:57:51 plant that you should or shouldn't put it on.
10:57:54 But in terms of our yards, in some ways there's a
10:57:57 nutritional benefit from some of that nitrogen put on
10:58:01 our yards.
10:58:02 But help me out.
10:58:03 You know more about it than any of us.
10:58:05 >>BRAD BAIRD: Tampa water department.
10:58:08 The vast majority of our customers are very pleased
10:58:12 with the reclaimed water.
10:58:14 And we do on the Web site and in brochures list the
10:58:22 primary list of plants that people are familiar with.
10:58:25 There are some plants that are exotics that are not as
10:58:29 common that we do not list, and we certainly could add
10:58:32 those to the list.
10:58:34 But the majority of our customers are very pleased with
10:58:37 the reclaimed water.
10:58:38 It does provide additional nitrogen.
10:58:40 It's in the water.
10:58:42 As you apply it to your turf.
10:58:44 And shrubbery.
10:58:47 And so if you look around in the reclaimed water area,
10:58:52 the lawns look pretty groan and healthy and lush, as
10:58:57 well as the vegetation and is rubbery around that.
10:59:02 So especially during drought times you can tell the
10:59:05 difference between the reclaimed water area and the
10:59:07 nonreclaimed water area.
10:59:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Why?
10:59:11 >>> For one they could water.
10:59:17 Anytime, seven days a week.
10:59:18 And they take advantage of that.
10:59:20 >> And in St. Petersburg they have been doing this for,
10:59:22 what, 20, 30 years.
10:59:23 >>BRAD BAIRD: Yes.
10:59:24 I think about 25 years maybe.
10:59:27 A little longer than 25 years.
10:59:29 They have been doing that in St. Pete.
10:59:31 In the City of Tampa, we took a different approach.
10:59:33 And our investment was in the advanced wastewater
10:59:38 treatment plant, to take that to a level beyond what
10:59:42 St. Pete treats it.
10:59:44 So there were two -- there was a fork in the road at
10:59:47 the time.
10:59:48 And we took a different path.
10:59:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: One other thing for the record, and
10:59:54 I hope this is not taken out of my context to my
10:59:57 colleagues from Tampa Bay water, but the City of Tampa
10:59:59 between the year 2006 and 2009, so that would be four
11:00:03 years, has bought water totaling 28.9 million dollars.
11:00:12 Which equates to 12.19 billion gallons of water, which
11:00:18 equates to just 3 billion less than the total capacity
11:00:21 of the reservoir, which is 15.5 billion gallons.
11:00:26 So what I'm saying is, I'm adding a little cement to
11:00:30 the patch to say that if you don't look in the future,
11:00:32 that 28.9 million, with the expansion of population
11:00:39 coming in, you know, when we talk about things going
11:00:42 forward, transportation, things of that nature, you
11:00:47 can't have growth without water.
11:00:51 You can have it without a lot of things.
11:00:54 But the element of survival is water.
11:00:58 And not a train, not a plane, not a high-rise.
11:01:04 You can live with a lot -- without a lot of things but
11:01:09 you can't live without water.
11:01:10 This city's viability again is based on its ability to
11:01:16 produce something for the future.
11:01:20 Madam Chair, that's the end of my statements.
11:01:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other questions, council?
11:01:24 We need to receive and file.
11:01:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
11:01:28 >> Second.
11:01:28 (Motion carried).
11:01:30 >>GWEN MILLER: We stand adjourned until 5:01.
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