TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, March 25, 2010
9:00 a.m. workshop session
The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied upon
for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.
09:07:06 >> GWEN MILLER: Good morning.
09:07:07 We are going to call the City Council meeting to order.
09:07:09 The chair yields to Charlie Miranda.
09:07:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It's my pleasure this morning to
09:07:14 introduce a young lady who I have had the pleasure of
09:07:19 knowing for many years.
09:07:20 She's been the capable aid of the honorable Gwen
09:07:23 Miller, and her name is Olivia, "Livi," Wilson to say
09:07:30 is morning prayer.
09:07:31 Please rise for the prayer.
09:07:33 Remain standing for the pledge of allegiance.
09:07:35 >>> Good morning.
09:07:37 Let us pray.
09:07:38 O Lord, we pray that you fill us with the spirit of
09:07:42 wisdom this morning those to whom we have entrusted the
09:07:45 authority of government.
09:07:47 We pray that thou aren't just and prudent, able to
09:07:53 promote the well-being of all of our citizens and their
09:07:56 humble efforts to a right judgment be constantly guided
09:07:59 by you.
09:08:00 If there are doubts and uncertainties this morning, we
09:08:03 pray that you grant our officials your grace so that
09:08:07 they may always speak your will.
09:08:09 Finally, dear heavenly father, I continue to pray for
09:08:13 my brethren who are lonely and homeless, who are sick
09:08:17 and shut-in, who are bereaved, who are incarcerated,
09:08:22 who are being notified of pending layoffs, who are
09:08:23 already unemployed, and our military men and women who
09:08:28 defend our country each day, that your angels will
09:08:33 always surround them, protect them, provide for them,
09:08:35 and keep them.
09:08:37 (Pledge of Allegiance)
09:09:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Roll call.
09:09:04 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:09:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:09:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:09:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:09:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:09:12 The chair will yield to Councilwoman Gwen Miller.
09:09:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Good morning.
09:09:28 On behalf of council, we do the Officer of the Month
09:09:32 and I am very happy to recognize officer John
09:09:35 Gustafson, and I am going to turn it over to the chief.
09:09:43 >> Chief Castor: It's my pleasure to bring you one of
09:09:47 Tampa's finest officers.
09:09:49 This month it is John Gustafson.
09:09:52 And although he has only been with our department for
09:09:55 only two years he has six years with a previous law
09:09:57 enforcement agency.
09:09:59 He's known in the district as one of those individuals
09:10:01 that can solve cases that have absolutely no lead.
09:10:08 A pizza man was robbed and beaten severely and put into
09:10:11 the trunk of his car by three individuals, absolutely
09:10:14 no leads on that, and based on his contacts out on the
09:10:17 street, and following upon information and basically
09:10:22 drumming up information, he was able to solve that
09:10:24 crime that most likely would have gone unsolved.
09:10:29 But what he's being recognized for today is back in
09:10:33 late 2009 he was off-duty in the Brandon area driving
09:10:37 along, and he saw a deputy who had pulled an individual
09:10:39 over, and as he watched, the deputy began to scuffle
09:10:43 with the suspect, and he tried to -- the deputy tried
09:10:47 to tase him and that was ineffective, so officer
09:10:50 Gustafson stopped in his personal car, and the
09:10:55 individual was fighting violently with the deputy,
09:10:58 broke free and ran.
09:10:59 Although he had no communication and no weapon on him,
09:11:02 officer Gustafson chased him to a nearby apartment
09:11:05 complex where the individual tried to get into an
09:11:07 occupied car.
09:11:08 He basically tried to car Jack a woman's car.
09:11:12 Officer Gustafson pulled him out of the car.
09:11:15 A violent struggle ensued.
09:11:17 He was able to detain him until three sheriffs deputies
09:11:20 arrived and were able to take him under control,
09:11:24 effectively arrest him.
09:11:24 The reason that he ran and fought so violently is that
09:11:28 he was a fugitive from Colorado and Wyoming, and he was
09:11:31 wanted for child abuse and sexual exploitation of
09:11:35 So he also had cocaine and marijuana on him at the time
09:11:39 of the arrest.
09:11:40 So based on officer Gustafson's actions, not only did
09:11:43 he take a very violent criminal off the street, he more
09:11:46 than likely saved that deputy from obvious injury and
09:11:50 harm and who knows what would have happened.
09:11:53 So officer Gustafson is an asset to the police
09:11:56 department, whether he's on or off duty, and that's the
09:11:59 reason he is being recognized as Officer of the Month.
09:12:02 So thank you very much.
09:12:04 [ Applause ]
09:12:10 >>GWEN MILLER: On behalf of the Tampa City Council I
09:12:11 would like to present you this commendation.
09:12:13 I am not going to read it because the chief just said
09:12:15 all those good things.
09:12:17 I'll just present it.
09:12:19 And at this time the private sector has some things for
09:12:24 From Charlie's steakhouse.
09:12:25 >> Congratulations.
09:12:31 Steve Stickley representing Stepps towing service.
09:12:36 On behalf of Stepps towing we would like to present
09:12:39 this statue to you for a job very well done.
09:12:42 We also have a gift certificate to Lee Roy Selmons.
09:12:48 On behalf of Danny Lewis who had a prior engagement, he
09:12:51 said he will touch base with you and make sure you get
09:12:55 your watch.
09:12:55 And another note, my German Shepherd's name is Gustaf,
09:13:06 officer Gustafson.
09:13:07 >> On behalf of the Straz center for the performing
09:13:10 arts center we would like to give you four tickets for
09:13:13 Sunday night to you and your family.
09:13:17 Thanks for all that you do.
09:13:18 >> PBA, we are giving a $100 gift card to you to use
09:13:25 anyway you want to, and however your squad members
09:13:29 decide to use it.
09:13:32 [ Laughter ]
09:13:32 >> Thank you.
09:13:41 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I think she was interested in
09:13:42 something I have over here.
09:13:43 Do you want to go to lunch one day, take you to lunch?
09:13:48 Mom and daddy can take you to lunch over at rigatoni's.
09:13:53 Would you like that?
09:13:57 And you get to have your picture taken.
09:14:01 You can go to Bryn Allen and have some nice pictures
09:14:05 Would you like that?
09:14:08 Also, mommy and daddy get to go to Bern's.
09:14:12 Is that okay?
09:14:13 I don't think they are going to take you, though.
09:14:16 [ Laughter ]
09:14:19 Anyway, we appreciate what you do, and certainly this
09:14:22 goes to show that officers are always on duty whether
09:14:25 they are at home or whether on their own leisure time,
09:14:29 and we really appreciate what you do for us and for our
09:14:30 family, and obviously all the children.
09:14:33 Thank you very much.
09:14:34 And on behalf of Bryn Allen, on behalf of Bern's
09:14:38 steakhouse and rigatoni's, we are presenting you with
09:14:41 these gift certificates and hope you enjoy them.
09:14:46 [ Applause ]
09:14:56 >> I would just like to thank all the officers that are
09:15:00 involved, my sergeant, the corporal, who put me in for
09:15:03 this big award, for the department for giving me the
09:15:07 opportunity to work for this great city, especially my
09:15:11 family who have always been there for me.
09:15:14 I just want to thank City Council and all the
09:15:16 businesses who have taken the opportunity to come here
09:15:20 and present this to me.
09:15:21 I just want to say thank you to all.
09:15:23 Thank you.
09:15:27 [ Applause ]
09:15:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:15:37 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:15:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's my pleasure this morning to
09:15:51 ask John Massolio, Jr., to come up.
09:16:05 Tampa City Council presents a commendation this morning
09:16:07 to John Massolio, Jr., as founder of DBSA, which is
09:16:14 celebrating 25 years of service.
09:16:16 DBSA is deleting patient directive organization
09:16:21 focusing on the most prevalent mental illness.
09:16:24 It fosters and environment of understanding about the
09:16:27 impact and management of these life threatening
09:16:29 illnesses by providing up-to-date scientifically based
09:16:32 tools and information written in language that the
09:16:34 general public can understand.
09:16:37 It supports research, to promote more timely diagnosis,
09:16:40 develop more effective and tolerable treatment, and to
09:16:42 discover a cure.
09:16:44 The organization works to ensure that people living
09:16:47 with mood disorders can be treated equitably, and you
09:16:53 have supported it and been a leader.
09:16:54 Thank you for your leadership in our community.
09:16:56 >>> Thank you very much.
09:16:59 [ Applause ]
09:17:00 On behalf of Mr. Bush, no relation to governor bush
09:17:13 behind me who is the current president, this office,
09:17:16 all-volunteer organization, is free and open to the
09:17:18 public anywhere in Tampa Bay, and we have nine support
09:17:21 groups that are available for family members and for
09:17:25 people who have mental illness, and we thank you for
09:17:28 your commendation.
09:17:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for your leadership.
09:17:34 [ Applause ]
09:17:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Miller.
09:17:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Are you ready?
09:17:44 Good morning again, council members.
09:17:46 Today we have a special guest here, our sister city
09:17:50 from Sicily.
09:17:51 We have them and their staff coming in.
09:17:54 I turn it over to Vince Pardo, if you would come up,
09:17:59 >>VINCE PARDO: Thank you very much.
09:18:00 I come to you today really in the capacity of -- this
09:18:03 is Vince Pardo coming in the capacity of the Tampa
09:18:07 sister city committee.
09:18:08 We have the pleasure of this week as part of coming up
09:18:12 to festive Italiano of having not only one but two
09:18:19 groups here.
09:18:19 We have a group of 19 members from Clark dance group,
09:18:23 performers, performing last night and will throughout
09:18:26 the week at certain functions.
09:18:27 But we also have a visiting delegation from the city
09:18:36 that I want to recognize the ancient Greek name for
09:18:41 Agrigento, valley of the temples, and just want to
09:18:47 recognize the director of the group that's come in, Mr.
09:18:56 Daneli, who you saw before, and if you will stand as
09:19:02 We also have special guests from the region of Sicily
09:19:09 for the State of Florida who actually provided the
09:19:12 grant for the 19 members airfare to come over for the
09:19:15 So I also recognize him before the immigration for the
09:19:26 department of Sicily here.
09:19:37 First is the mayor of Alessandria della Rocca, Sicily,
09:19:44 Italian word for mayor, Dr. Giulio Mulé.
09:19:46 Vice Mayor Alfonzo Frisco.
09:19:53 President of the City Council.
09:19:57 And the vice-president of the council, Krusmano.
09:20:05 [ Applause ]
09:20:17 >> Let me turn the microphone over to Michael Delay.
09:20:21 We have a few gifts to share with the council.
09:20:24 But I want ton introduce a very helpful person this
09:20:28 week who will be translating for Dr. Delay.
09:20:32 >> Good morning.
09:20:48 Good morning, everyone.
09:21:04 It is a great honor for me to be here today.
09:21:07 I am the mayor of a very small town in Sicily which has
09:21:10 about 3,000 people, so this is why it's a great honor
09:21:16 to be here in front of you today.
09:21:19 We are here to present a project today which is called
09:21:38 the tourism of the origins that could be a great
09:21:44 solution, financial solution for our country.
09:21:48 Our goal is to involve the City of Tampa, to invite all
09:22:22 the citizens to come to our town, because our town is a
09:22:26 beautiful town, and it's a very warm place, and it's a
09:22:29 beautiful place.
09:22:31 Again, this is a very important project for us, and it
09:22:56 is why I am here with my colleagues today.
09:22:59 We are going to do all our best and all our strength to
09:23:04 make sure this project is successful.
09:23:07 Thank you very much.
09:23:09 [ Applause ]
09:23:19 >>VINCE PARDO: This is for council members.
09:23:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: May I ask a question?
09:23:31 What is the project?
09:23:35 >> What is the project?
09:23:36 The they actually present this a little bit more at the
09:23:41 Italian club.
09:23:42 They are hoping that all the people from Alexandria and
09:23:46 any other person that is interested in visiting the
09:23:48 town can go back every summer.
09:23:51 They are going to have a celebration called the
09:23:55 celebration of the return.
09:23:57 So all the ones that actually come from there can go
09:24:00 back and trace their roots, and they are going to be
09:24:04 guests in special houses that they are arranging for
09:24:07 these people, and organize it for them.
09:24:14 They are going to feel at home and not as a tourist,
09:24:16 and whale they are there, some of them will receive
09:24:20 some awards for special things they have done, and also
09:24:24 in thinking to create a sidewalk where they are going
09:24:28 to put their names of all the people that are returning
09:24:30 and tracing back their roots.
09:24:33 So this is the main project.
09:24:35 They are hoping that all of this is going to take off
09:24:37 very soon.
09:24:37 So they are here to invite all the people to come, not
09:24:40 just the Italians, all of the Americans who want to go
09:24:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:24:46 >>MARY MULHERN: Perhaps Senor Miranda, he has some
09:24:56 Italian roots, don't you?
09:24:59 I do, too, but mine are from Bobbie.
09:25:07 >>> (speaking in native tongue)
09:25:18 >> Good morning.
09:25:30 He actually represents the groups of the valley, and
09:25:36 it's the most -- the oldest.
09:25:39 So it's a very historical association and they are
09:25:42 always very busy celebrating celebrations, especially
09:25:48 the ones they do around the world.
09:25:52 And it's a sister city with Tampa, also.
09:25:58 Our group is formed by mainly very young people.
09:26:20 It takes the celebrations around the world, and has
09:26:23 been doing this for sixty years to make sure that the
09:26:31 best parts of our culture are always connected with
09:26:34 their roots.
09:26:49 >> Thank you to the Mr. Pardo and Mr. Delay so that we
09:26:57 can be here today to share about our activities.
09:27:00 And thank you to the region which has participated in
09:27:25 the expenses of all these people coming here today.
09:27:29 [ Applause ]
09:27:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just wanted her to translate to
09:27:51 tell them welcome of course from the city Tampa and the
09:27:55 City Council.
09:27:56 We are pleased that they are here.
09:27:58 We hope we can give you some good weather for festa
09:28:10 It was a lot of fun Saturday and Sunday in Ybor City.
09:28:18 Personally, I'm of German and Russian extraction, but
09:28:23 after I went to Italy several years ago, I realized I
09:28:27 wanted to be Italian.
09:28:44 >>VINCE PARDO: The mayor has gifts for council members.
09:28:46 >> How about the kids in costume?
09:28:53 Are they going to dance or show us --
09:28:55 >>VINCE PARDO: No.
09:28:56 We just wanted to bring a little local color.
09:28:59 But there are 19 of them.
09:29:02 They range in age from about 18 up to 34.
09:29:08 They are all staying with host families, which is a
09:29:10 great experience for us, and one of the activities,
09:29:16 they will be there tonight through Sunday.
09:29:18 These are gifts from the mayor it is the seal of the
09:29:27 city and surrounding tile.
09:29:29 So I hope you appreciate those.
09:29:31 And also from the dance group as well.
09:29:34 Thank you.
09:29:35 Agrigento, Italy.
09:29:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What we can do is have the mayor, the
09:30:23 mayor and maybe his council come take a quick picture
09:30:26 with us up here.
09:30:27 Why don't we do that?
09:30:28 >> Photo.
09:30:33 >> Thank you very much for your time, council members.
09:32:38 Again we have some activities this coming weekend.
09:32:41 Thank you.
09:32:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Again thank you very much.
09:32:57 Back to our business at hand.
09:32:58 Before we move to the workshop, those who are perhaps
09:33:01 watching today, we have been informed that there's a
09:33:05 job fair going on this morning from 10 a.m. to 3 p.m.
09:33:10 over at the Encore construction site at Central Park,
09:33:15 downtown, entrance located at Cass Street.
09:33:18 The entrance located at Cass Street between Orange
09:33:21 Avenue and Nebraska Avenue.
09:33:24 I passed that this morning coming in.
09:33:26 There's already hundreds of folk lining up over there.
09:33:28 I want to encourage people to go.
09:33:30 I understand there's about 4,000 jobs, and they are
09:33:34 going to be there interviewing for and so forth.
09:33:36 We want to encourage people this morning from 10 a.m.
09:33:39 to 3 p.m. to go by that site, Central Park and Encore
09:33:43 construction site, entrance located is at Cass Street.
09:33:49 Thank you very much.
09:33:51 At this time we will proceed with our workshop for the
09:33:55 And the first workshop we welcome Westshore alliance,
09:34:00 Mr. Ron Rotella.
09:34:14 Ron Rotella.
09:34:20 Before I get started, I would like to introduce Paula
09:34:24 Buffa, the president of the Westshore Alliance.
09:34:29 Most of you know Ann.
09:34:34 A number of our Board of Directors are here.
09:34:35 Anddrikk Frazier who is on the Board of Directors.
09:34:42 Most of you will recognize that Westshore has been in
09:34:46 existence for 27 years.
09:34:47 We actually start on our 28th year
09:34:50 And there's supposed to be a PowerPoint presentation
09:34:53 here, and I guess I am supposed to be doing something.
09:34:56 There we go.
09:35:00 Now how does this work?
09:35:09 We have been in business for 27 years.
09:35:14 We incorporated in 1983.
09:35:16 And we are in our 28th year.
09:35:18 I guess Westshore alliance, we would be recognized
09:35:22 generally as the voice that represents Westshore.
09:35:28 I would like to point out that Westshore is an economic
09:35:32 engine not only to the City of Tampa but Hillsborough
09:35:35 County, and some of the demographic data will indicate
09:35:40 to you, though we are only one percent of the total
09:35:43 land area of Hillsborough County, if you look at 37% of
09:35:46 all the commercial office space, 8,000 hotel rooms, we
09:35:50 are the region's inn keeper with 47%, and then you can
09:35:54 go down that list.
09:35:57 If we just focus on the City of Tampa, then obviously
09:36:00 those percentages will be higher, but we want to
09:36:02 indicate that we are an important economic engine for
09:36:07 Hillsborough County and the City of Tampa.
09:36:13 If you look at the City of Tampa's budget and just the
09:36:16 ad valorem tax base, Westshore is 13% as far as
09:36:20 revenues generated for ad valorem taxes, and we
09:36:25 calculate payments on utility fees, occupational
09:36:27 license fees, and other fees, it would be obvious that
09:36:32 we are a major contributor of revenue to the City of
09:36:35 Tampa's budget.
09:36:36 And I will point out that the Tourist Development
09:36:39 Council, their programs are funded by five cent bed tax
09:36:45 from hotel rooms, that the Westshore business district
09:36:49 contributes approximately half of the $20 million that
09:36:53 the Tourist Development Council allocates every year
09:36:56 because of the number of hotel rooms in Westshore.
09:37:02 I guess we all know we are in a bit of recession,
09:37:07 economic downturn, so our focus is on Westshore's
09:37:10 Wall Westshore be 10, 20, 30 years from today?
09:37:17 These are projections from the Hillsborough County
09:37:20 Planning Commission that indicates by the year 2050
09:37:24 there will be 164,000 people working in the Westshore
09:37:28 business district, and our residential population will
09:37:31 increase to 35,000.
09:37:37 The City of Tampa has designated Westshore as a major
09:37:45 area for more intensity and more density, an area
09:37:50 appropriate for more growth, and what we are doing as a
09:37:54 business district is trying to complement that land use
09:37:58 planning initiative.
09:37:59 Most of you know that we have our own development of
09:38:01 regional impact in place.
09:38:02 It's been in place since 1987.
09:38:05 We are a transportation concurrency exception area, and
09:38:09 we have our own commercial overlay district to help
09:38:15 guide future development in Westshore and deal with the
09:38:17 aesthetic qualities as well.
09:38:22 And if I drive down Kennedy Boulevard, which is a view
09:38:33 corridor, I can't help but notice all those beautiful
09:38:38 signs on them.
09:38:39 Wonderful touch for the city.
09:38:40 But you won't see them in Westshore because our
09:38:43 commercial overlay district prohibits them.
09:38:45 Imagine Westshore Boulevard like this.
09:38:50 And this will happen.
09:38:51 I'll give you an example.
09:38:52 Blue Cross Blue Shield's new building is right up
09:38:56 against the sidewalk, all the parking in the rear, very
09:38:59 little parking on the side.
09:39:00 It's pedestrian oriented.
09:39:02 And the building, I think, really looks good.
09:39:07 As Westshore develops, we'll see that kind of
09:39:09 development because of the commercial overlay district.
09:39:17 So making the comp plan, the City of Tampa's comp plan
09:39:20 a vision that will be realized, will focus on transit
09:39:25 oriented development.
09:39:26 You know that right now there's an effort to have the
09:39:30 city's comprehensive land use plan amended to have a
09:39:34 provision for transit oriented development.
09:39:37 Of course it will be appropriate in Westshore.
09:39:39 That will allow for greater density and intensity of
09:39:42 use, mixed use, and if you are downtown, you see all
09:39:49 the buildings up against the street, retail generally
09:39:52 on the first floor, you don't have the tree and
09:39:58 landscape ordinance apply to every building in
09:40:03 In Westshore that's not the case.
09:40:05 But as we move more towards transit oriented
09:40:08 development, I think the more rational approach is to
09:40:11 have public open spaces that are well-developed, that
09:40:15 people will use instead of narrow brass strips with
09:40:19 landscaping and trees, I think it will be more
09:40:25 beneficial to the district to have open space and green
09:40:29 space and public parks that become people places, and
09:40:33 that's not appropriate obviously to the entire
09:40:35 Westshore business district, but certainly to the heart
09:40:37 of the business district.
09:40:41 And I think we would all want to bring more
09:40:44 predictability and flexibility to the development
09:40:47 process because that's the only way you are going to
09:40:49 implement transit oriented development.
09:40:53 We have a great working relationship westbound the
09:41:00 Florida Department of Transportation.
09:41:02 For example, when they redesigned the north side of the
09:41:04 interstate, which is completes the south side, we'll
09:41:08 have access under the interstate at Trask and Occident
09:41:13 to get people off of Westshore Boulevard.
09:41:15 You will have a connection to the interstate directly
09:41:17 to Westshore mall so people don't have to come up
09:41:20 cypress and take a right on Westshore Boulevard, and
09:41:23 put more traffic on Westshore.
09:41:26 The other improvement we are working on is when they do
09:41:30 memorial-Kennedy interchange, there will be a new
09:41:35 access off Kennedy in the interstate and to the western
09:41:39 part of the Westshore business district on Rio street.
09:41:42 Because right now people have to come out, up Kennedy,
09:41:45 Westshore, and that will be a very, very significant
09:41:50 improvement for the Westshore business district.
09:41:52 But the point here is that we just don't wait for
09:41:56 projects to happen, and then wonder how they are going
09:42:00 to affect the business districts.
09:42:01 We have a great working relationship with all the
09:42:03 public agencies, and we try to work with them as plans
09:42:06 are being developed that benefit the city and the
09:42:08 business district.
09:42:11 We are an advocate for efficient transportation
09:42:19 Most of you know that we have our own pedestrian plan
09:42:21 that you approved.
09:42:23 We are working with gene and James Jackson and
09:42:29 Christine Bruno and others on the landscaping
09:42:33 improvements on Kennedy.
09:42:36 We just completed them in front of the university of
09:42:38 Tampa along Kennedy Boulevard.
09:42:41 And it really looks good.
09:42:43 And there is an allocation Florida Department of
09:42:45 Transportation to do that from Woodlawn out to
09:42:48 memorial-Kennedy interchange, and pretty soon, thanks
09:42:52 to the receptiveness of your staff and us working
09:42:56 together, those landscape improvements will take place
09:42:58 on Kennedy.
09:42:59 And we want to include a public art component.
09:43:02 There's a large grassy area out there right at
09:43:04 Memorial-Kennedy, and with the -- what the city will do
09:43:08 is hire a landscape architect and indicate where that
09:43:12 pad should be and how it should complement the
09:43:14 landscaping, and then hopefully we'll have a
09:43:18 cooperative funding effort with the city and have a
09:43:20 nice piece of public art as people fly in to Tampa
09:43:24 International Airport and go through that busy, busy
09:43:27 intersection that will be a very visual, pleasing
09:43:31 introduction to Westshore and Tampa.
09:43:34 And of course these ongoing plans right now, we are
09:43:38 paying for the street intersections, the crossings
09:43:42 through our special assessment, so complementing the
09:43:46 pedestrian plans, the long-term commitment, and we
09:43:49 would hope the city would complement our efforts on
09:43:51 I would point out quickly that we endorsed the TBARTA
09:43:57 master plan that was approved in May of 2009, and we
09:44:00 have unanimously, by resolution, our Board of
09:44:04 Directors, as well as the Board of County
09:44:07 Commissioners, our support for the one cent tax
09:44:11 increase for comprehensive transportation plan for the
09:44:19 county and Tampa.
09:44:22 Most of you are aware that the Tourist Development
09:44:25 Council at its February meeting agreed to employ
09:44:29 Pricewaterhouse to do a feasibility study for a
09:44:33 multi-purpose conference facility in the Westshore
09:44:36 business district.
09:44:38 And that study is underway.
09:44:39 The plans call for them to go back to the Tourist
09:44:42 Development Council in May and present the data. What
09:44:48 the Tourist Development Council did is they held back a
09:44:51 portion of the funding to make sure that it was a
09:44:55 feasible project before expending 102,500 towards that
09:45:01 I will tell you that the Westshore business district is
09:45:06 sincere, and I will say this to you in this public
09:45:11 setting, that we propose a facility that does not
09:45:15 compete with Tampa's downtown convention center.
09:45:18 That's a 600,000 square foot facility with 287,000
09:45:22 square feet of exhibit and meeting space, that's
09:45:25 appropriate for very large conventions and big
09:45:30 What we are talking about southbound a smaller
09:45:31 conference facility that would accommodate smaller
09:45:34 meetings that we think go to other location as round
09:45:38 the state and around the country.
09:45:39 So in the future think of the Westshore business
09:45:41 district at the very heart of the west coast Florida's
09:45:46 new regional transportation system connected to Tampa
09:45:50 international, where people have the ability to fly in,
09:45:55 attend a conference in Westshore, all the hotels around
09:45:58 there, all the restaurants, all the facilities that a
09:46:03 meeting planner looks at when they decide we'll meet in
09:46:07 a particular city.
09:46:07 And we think that's not only good for the Westshore
09:46:10 business district, we think it's good for Tampa and
09:46:12 Hillsborough County, and would generate more tourist
09:46:14 development revenue for them to fund other programs and
09:46:20 market the city and the county.
09:46:23 And I will show you on that last slide, that is a
09:46:27 conference facility going up in Irving, Texas, just out
09:46:32 side of Dallas/Ft. Worth.
09:46:34 It's 90,000 square feet, and it's the kind of facility
09:46:38 that we are talking about.
09:46:39 It's a multi-purpose conference facility that serves
09:46:42 that business district.
09:46:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I mean, when I heard about this,
09:46:52 inherently, I think all, you know, city government,
09:46:56 since we own the downtown convention center, would
09:47:01 cringe a little bit, and, you know, you obviously
09:47:04 recognize it because you brought it up in regard to the
09:47:07 potential competition.
09:47:10 I know that I think you commissioned a study or
09:47:13 something like that.
09:47:14 I didn't have a chance to ask John Moors before he
09:47:18 retired, you know, his opinion on that.
09:47:23 But I guess inherently it seems that even smaller
09:47:30 groups might come in and say we just want to rent half
09:47:34 of the convention center, and it seems like we do that
09:47:37 on occasion.
09:47:38 So I guess I'm having a little bit of trouble grasping
09:47:42 why it wouldn't be competitive.
09:47:44 Do you want to elaborate a little more?
09:47:46 What are your experts saying?
09:47:49 Give us your unbiased opinion.
09:47:51 >> First of all, this approach is not new to major
09:47:58 metropolitan areas.
09:47:59 A lot of cities have large convention centers in the
09:48:03 heart of their downtown, and then have the ancillary
09:48:06 facilities out side the downtown area.
09:48:10 There are a number of cities, this is a case in point,
09:48:12 and so is the other.
09:48:14 And there are people that -- I'll tell you how this
09:48:20 conversation started.
09:48:25 My dentist who is president of the south west dental
09:48:28 association said, Ron, I wish we could meet in
09:48:31 I said, why don't you?
09:48:32 He said the hotel only has 10, 12,000 square feet.
09:48:36 I said, so?
09:48:37 He said we need at least 25, 30,000 square feet.
09:48:41 We need the meeting space and we need exhibit space for
09:48:43 our vendors to set up their chairs and equipment, et.
09:48:46 So we go to Orlando.
09:48:47 I said why don't you go to the convention center
09:48:50 He said, well, it's too big.
09:48:52 We kind of get lost in that facility.
09:48:57 There were a number of other reasons why they go to
09:49:01 So I think we lose a lot of business for smaller
09:49:06 meeting places that just want to meet in a more of a
09:49:14 facility set-up for their needs and not be part of a
09:49:17 large structure in the central business district.
09:49:21 And that's not true -- excuse me, that's true of not
09:49:24 just the convention center downtown but any major city
09:49:28 like Atlanta.
09:49:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Two questions.
09:49:30 A question and kind of -- the question would be
09:49:33 potentially how would you pay for this facility?
09:49:37 Or how would somebody pay for this facility, number
09:49:40 And number two, to me, it doesn't matter whether or
09:49:44 not -- I mean, I don't want to get into the fight
09:49:47 between -- or the potential fight between downtown
09:49:49 hotels or Westshore hotels and that sort of thing
09:49:52 because frankly they are all in the city.
09:49:56 We want to encourage all of that.
09:49:57 But the problem of course is that we are part of -- we
09:50:01 are the convention center.
09:50:02 Our downtown convention center.
09:50:04 So that sort of brings council and the mayor, I would
09:50:07 assume, into this issue a little bit.
09:50:09 But more importantly, I guess, for today is if you went
09:50:12 down this road, how would it get funded?
09:50:16 >>RON ROTELLA: That's part of the study, is the
09:50:18 consultant has to select three sites and rank them and
09:50:23 then determine what the appropriate funding mechanism
09:50:26 And just for discussion purposes, let's assume that the
09:50:30 one cent sales tax for a multimodal transportation
09:50:35 system passes, and we locate a station stop in the
09:50:40 business district, which we'll have to do, and then
09:50:44 wouldn't it be a wonderful planning effort to implement
09:50:50 a multimodal facility on the ground floor with a
09:50:54 multi-purpose conference facility on top of it in the
09:50:57 heart of the Westshore business district connected to
09:51:00 light rail and to Tampa International Airport?
09:51:04 If that was the case, then you would have private
09:51:06 sector involvement with some of the ancillary
09:51:11 development as far as commercial office and retail and
09:51:13 hotel that would accompany that station and that
09:51:17 multi-purpose conference facility.
09:51:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda and Councilwoman
09:51:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not an expert in convention
09:51:26 centers, but I know they are graded by size.
09:51:30 You have the ones in Las Vegas, multi-multi-size, you
09:51:34 have the one in Orlando, that our convention center can
09:51:39 fit in four, six or seven times into it.
09:51:42 In fact it's so big it has two sides to it.
09:51:48 We are not a typical convention center.
09:51:50 We are a small to medium convention center and we do
09:51:54 very well, have been doing well on those sites.
09:51:58 So when you look at those things, there's always a need
09:52:03 to develop within yourselves.
09:52:05 And we do this.
09:52:08 The last administration, as you are well aware of, we
09:52:11 added some small meeting rooms to help out the
09:52:15 different amenities that came because we had a
09:52:19 convention center without a hotel.
09:52:21 That was accomplished with a major hotel called the
09:52:24 Then another hotel came in.
09:52:27 So am I to say then that because we are a government
09:52:35 that we have protectionism and not allow any others to
09:52:38 Absolutely not.
09:52:39 If somebody can do better than us, I welcome them.
09:52:44 I welcome the challenge of competition.
09:52:45 I welcome the challenge, if there is, which I don't
09:52:49 believe there is.
09:52:50 You do have an enormous amount of individuals who might
09:52:54 be looking for a venue that doesn't fit our venue where
09:52:59 we are at.
09:52:59 And, therefore, you are slicing away at potential
09:53:04 individuals from visiting the city and this great area,
09:53:08 the recreation area, and the downtown area, the
09:53:11 Westshore area, who tomorrow may bring in a venue of
09:53:15 the size that the venue that they visited can't fit
09:53:20 into because they are too large, and then will visit
09:53:22 the larger venue, which is a convention center
09:53:26 So everything feeds off of each other in business.
09:53:29 And you have to understand it.
09:53:33 You might lose one or two small ones.
09:53:36 But they may come back as one or two big ones.
09:53:40 And then they are yours, because they have been here,
09:53:42 and they have experienced the sunshine other than this
09:53:46 year has had a little cold spell, but these are the
09:53:49 things you look at.
09:53:50 You don't look at -- if you have one pitcher, you only
09:53:56 have one pitch.
09:53:57 You might make it to the majors but you aren't going to
09:54:00 stay there long.
09:54:01 But when you relate to business, you cannot close your
09:54:03 eyes and say this is mine and I am not going to let
09:54:05 anyone, because they will go somewhere else.
09:54:07 It's a model that works.
09:54:12 I have never seen a restaurant that operates
09:54:15 successfully and only has one item on the menu.
09:54:20 The same thing with convention centers.
09:54:23 They feed off of each other.
09:54:25 You have something of size.
09:54:26 You have something of -- you might have something in
09:54:32 reverse that's large today and becomes a regional
09:54:35 instead of a national thing and want to go somewhere
09:54:38 And these are the things that to me are very exciting,
09:54:41 and to see, the opportunities or things that happen.
09:54:46 And I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:54:48 >>MARY MULHERN: Ron, I'm sorry because I missed the
09:54:53 first part of your presentation.
09:54:54 I had a couple of quick questions.
09:54:56 So you are talking about this is the multi-purple
09:54:59 purpose facility but basically a small convention
09:55:04 center type?
09:55:06 >>RON ROTELLA: We are talking about a facility that's
09:55:08 probably 150, 170,000 square feet.
09:55:11 Half of that would be support.
09:55:12 So you are talking about a facility that has exhibit
09:55:16 and meeting space, say 50 to 75,000 square feet.
09:55:21 Not 287,000 square feet.
09:55:23 >>MARY MULHERN: That's the way wanted to know, the
09:55:27 It's interesting because I think as Mr. Miranda said, I
09:55:30 think I have heard more that we lose business because
09:55:33 our convention center isn't big enough.
09:55:36 So I was wondering if you were going to be proposing a
09:55:39 new convention center.
09:55:41 >>RON ROTELLA: Absolutely not.
09:55:41 >>MARY MULHERN: But I agree if we don't have enough
09:55:46 space at this point, you know, if you have a big
09:55:49 convention, sometimes you do, and especially if we have
09:55:52 more transit, you can use both facilities.
09:55:55 You can have some of the events downtown, or even
09:56:01 downtown could be the main focus, and you could use the
09:56:05 other facility for additional space.
09:56:07 So it doesn't sound like a bad idea to me.
09:56:13 >>RON ROTELLA: The person that's conducting the study
09:56:15 is Robert Canton with division of Pricewaterhouse.
09:56:18 He is probably the best in the world, and that's what
09:56:22 they do, that particular division.
09:56:24 So he will come back to the Tourist Development Council
09:56:26 with a report that looks at the feasibility, that talks
09:56:29 about sites, that talks about what size, what kind of
09:56:33 mix of meeting space, how we finance it.
09:56:36 All of that will be part of the report.
09:56:38 I certainly did not want to just focus on that aspect
09:56:42 of the presentation, although it is apparently an
09:56:46 initiative that's underway.
09:56:47 And we think it fits in with the overall concept of
09:56:50 transit oriented development.
09:56:52 It fits in with Westshore being at the very center of
09:56:54 the west coast of Florida, the regional activity center
09:56:57 with hotels and restaurants, entertainment.
09:57:00 So we think it's part of the of Westshore's future.
09:57:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know if you meant to go into
09:57:09 this much detail but where are you looking?
09:57:11 Are you looking as part of the study to find a good
09:57:13 site or do you have a site?
09:57:15 >>RON ROTELLA: The best site would be as close to all
09:57:17 the hotels you can get to.
09:57:18 So in the heart of the business district would be the
09:57:22 appropriate location.
09:57:25 What the consultant has to do is select at minimum
09:57:29 three sites.
09:57:30 They could select more, and then they have to -- as you
09:57:35 know, sometime back Hillsborough County had a master
09:57:37 They proposed a conference facility as part of their
09:57:41 Hillsborough County community college has indicated to
09:57:43 me they would still like the consultant to consider
09:57:46 So the consultant will look at multiple sites in
09:57:49 >>MARY MULHERN: Sounds good to me.
09:57:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:57:53 I sit on the Tourist Development Council as the city's
09:57:58 I raised the issues that were raise by Mr. Dingfelder,
09:58:02 and about wanting to protect the significant public
09:58:05 investment we have made in the convention center, and
09:58:08 questioning where we would get the resources to do
09:58:12 The TVC voted to ask Robert Canton to do the study and
09:58:15 I think it would be appropriate to ask him to make a
09:58:17 presentation to City Council in addition to the TVC
09:58:20 because it's an issue that really involves the city, is
09:58:22 pretty complex.
09:58:23 I expressed some concern that whenever you hire a
09:58:25 consultant to do a study about whether or not to
09:58:28 proceed with the project, I never have personally seen
09:58:31 them say, no, it isn't a good idea, because usually,
09:58:34 you know, they feel like they want to make their
09:58:37 customer happy.
09:58:38 But I think because it does so impact the City of
09:58:40 Tampa, it would be appropriate to have that
09:58:42 presentation made so that all the council members can
09:58:44 have an opportunity to hear it firsthand in May after
09:58:48 he develops it.
09:58:49 So I'll make that request of him to do that for our
09:58:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think one more slide.
09:59:01 >>RON ROTELLA: "the end."
09:59:03 [ Laughter ]
09:59:03 For some reason this quit working.
09:59:13 So how do we end our presentation?
09:59:15 Simply to ask you to recognize what we are trying to
09:59:17 accomplish as an association in the business district,
09:59:20 which complements compliments your initiatives to
09:59:23 concentrate and focus growth in three areas, of the
09:59:26 city, downtown, Westshore and the university area, to
09:59:29 promote transit oriented development, and we would hope
09:59:32 you would support our initiatives.
09:59:33 That's what we are asking.
09:59:34 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Rotella, what is the vacancy
09:59:39 rate at the Westshore mall?
09:59:41 >> At the mall itself?
09:59:43 It's very low.
09:59:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Like one percent.
09:59:48 >>> I will tell you in the Westshore business district
09:59:50 you have two great regional malls with the
09:59:53 International Plaza and Westshore plaza, and then you
09:59:56 have so much other retail that complements that.
09:59:58 You have two and a half million square feet of
10:00:01 retail -- excuse me, almost 5 million square feet of
10:00:05 retail space in Westshore.
10:00:09 With two great regional malls.
10:00:12 And as you know, there's a new joint venture owner of
10:00:16 the Westshore mall.
10:00:17 That's the black testosterone group that purchased
10:00:19 Busch Gardens.
10:00:20 They have a lot of money.
10:00:22 Purchased Westshore plaza.
10:00:26 As its currently configured, it's too good a location.
10:00:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to compliment you for
10:00:32 your leadership in the Westshore alliance.
10:00:34 This area has been, under your leadership, the
10:00:38 Westshore Alliance has been the most proactive in terms
10:00:40 of thinking about pedestrians as part of the mix,
10:00:46 promoting the idea of sort of redefining Westshore as a
10:00:52 mixed use multimodal area, and I think by taking the
10:00:55 initiative to do a pedestrian plan you really led the
10:00:57 way, and I am going to encourage the city to support
10:00:59 and complement your efforts, and to redefine how our
10:01:03 transportation fees could be, such as mobility fees, so
10:01:07 where we can't wide ten streets we can spend the money
10:01:10 on enhancing the safety for pedestrians and the transit
10:01:12 and the bicycle lanes.
10:01:13 But you have really been a leader, and it's really
10:01:18 exciting to see this area transform.
10:01:20 And I hope that you will go back and relook at your
10:01:23 design overlay to make it even more pedestrian friendly
10:01:27 as things go on.
10:01:28 Your suggestion about taking the green space
10:01:31 requirements off of the individuals and creating some
10:01:34 sort of larger green space areas that could be used is
10:01:37 really strategic and smart.
10:01:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Rotella.
10:01:44 And let me follow up in regards to the development or
10:01:47 the study that's going on with the smaller convention
10:01:52 I echo, I think, the majority of the board's sentiments
10:01:55 that we believe that is a very good idea.
10:02:00 I will tell you that we would have that kind of
10:02:03 development and have tourists coming to town that the
10:02:05 city as a whole benefits, not just Westshore, but the
10:02:10 entire city benefits as a result of that.
10:02:12 And that's what's important.
10:02:14 One of the things that we have is a small mentality
10:02:18 saying, well, this is mine and nobody else can come in.
10:02:21 We have to get away from that.
10:02:23 Tampa is a large enough city that it should have mane
10:02:27 many venues that can come in here and complement rather
10:02:31 what's already here and help this city move forward and
10:02:39 we want to be the big-time players.
10:02:43 Well, if that is going to happen you have to have
10:02:45 things like what Westshore is doing, you have to have
10:02:47 other venues that draw tourists to this community.
10:02:50 That's what we said we want.
10:02:51 So I want to compliment you and Westshore.
10:02:56 I enjoyed the speaker, by the way.
10:02:59 >>RON ROTELLA: She did a terrific job.
10:03:01 What an asset to this community.
10:03:02 Councilman Scott, I'll tell you, if we didn't think the
10:03:06 multi-purpose conference facility was not just good for
10:03:10 Westshore but good for the city and good for
10:03:12 Hillsborough County, we would not be promoting it.
10:03:15 If we thought it would be detrimental to the city's
10:03:17 convention center or the city and the county as a
10:03:19 whole, we would not be pursuing it.
10:03:22 But I think you will see the study will bear that out.
10:03:29 Thank you for the opportunity.
10:03:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And your request take what you want
10:03:34 council to do?
10:03:37 >>RON ROTELLA: Just as we come before you with
10:03:39 initiatives as council member Saul-Sena indicated, when
10:03:41 we get to the point of the transit-oriented development
10:03:45 land use comp plan passing, then the next step for us
10:03:49 is to look at our commercial overlay district and to
10:03:52 amend the commercial overlay district to make sure the
10:03:57 kind of development we want to occur, the concentrated
10:04:00 public space, open space and green space, the way you
10:04:03 accomplish that is through your overlay district.
10:04:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You are not looking for any action
10:04:09 >>RON ROTELLA: No.
10:04:09 Just asking you to recognize wave some important
10:04:11 initiatives and as we come before you with those
10:04:14 initiatives we would appreciate your support.
10:04:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:04:16 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to say, Mr. Rotella, with
10:04:19 your leadership the plans will be implemented and you
10:04:21 will oversee that everything is going a straight way,
10:04:25 and I know we are looking forward to seeing everything
10:04:28 start going into place.
10:04:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
10:04:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, I'm good.
10:04:36 Thanks, Ron.
10:04:37 Linda, when you bring in that other gentleman, perhaps
10:04:42 have our new convention center director, hopefully Mr.
10:04:45 Corrada, perhaps give us some statistics on the
10:04:50 different events that they have over there as related
10:04:54 to the smaller events, and perhaps he will want to join
10:04:58 us in that discussion.
10:04:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think the presentation is going
10:05:03 to be made to the TVC in mid May.
10:05:05 So at our workshop session on May 27th, we don't
10:05:08 have anything down, I would like to move that we ask
10:05:19 him to come speak to council and share the
10:05:20 presentation, the TVC at 11:00 on May 27th.
10:05:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:05:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do we have anything else on the
10:05:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have something at 9:00 and
10:05:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:05:34 All in favor?
10:05:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Good.
10:05:37 Thank you.
10:05:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
10:05:38 Thank you, Mr. Rotella.
10:05:42 We move to public comment.
10:05:43 Any public comment on this?
10:05:52 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 south Sherill.
10:05:54 I got here just in time to say that Mr. Rotella has
10:05:59 agreed to make a presentation to the Westshore
10:06:01 neighborhood improvement committee on what their
10:06:04 proposals are and keep us in tune so we know what to be
10:06:09 watching out for in that area.
10:06:11 I just wanted to let you know that we know about it.
10:06:14 We'll be watching.
10:06:14 Thank you.
10:06:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much, Ms. Vizzi.
10:06:17 Next speaker.
10:06:26 >> Derek Chamblee. Google D-E-R-E-K, C-H-A-M-B-L-E-E,
10:06:34 "St. Pete Times."
10:06:36 On your development proposal for Westshore, your
10:06:47 consultant should check elevation.
10:06:49 I think it's time that we really -- the leaders of this
10:06:53 city start to realize the history, the hurricane
10:06:59 history of Tampa and the bay communities.
10:07:04 In the 1820s, Fort Brooke was hit by a hurricane.
10:07:09 The resulting economic boom was born.
10:07:15 Later in the century Tampa was destroyed and the
10:07:19 economic boom that resulted laid the foundation for our
10:07:22 current to modern city.
10:07:25 We are overdue for this destructive storm.
10:07:28 We have got to prepare for an aftermath where there may
10:07:32 be as many as 100,000 homeless people.
10:07:37 We have got to store up our nonperishables.
10:07:43 We have got to consider on development what is built on
10:07:48 virtually skinning the sea level, what is built on
10:07:55 And I invite not only the business associations of
10:07:59 Westshore and around our community, but the
10:08:02 neighborhood groups to consider the evacuation route,
10:08:12 has some very, very good instructions, not only for
10:08:14 your family, but your business.
10:08:17 If you will notice, where we are planning this
10:08:24 particular small convention center seems like a good
10:08:27 idea, it's in an area that's colored purple, blue, and
10:08:33 possibly yellow.
10:08:34 Now these various colors indicate elevation.
10:08:37 And you will notice that most of the -- from Westchase
10:08:42 all the way to South Tampa, from the Westshore
10:08:45 community to Davis Island, Harbor Island, downtown
10:08:49 Tampa, much of downtown Tampa.
10:08:52 We are talking all the way to MacKay Bay, lower Ybor
10:08:56 City, the port there, Riverview, Apollo Beach.
10:09:01 In case the general public doesn't know, these are
10:09:04 areas that with the storm surge would probably be under
10:09:10 Now, I would suggest that they check every elevation,
10:09:17 every business.
10:09:18 The building that goes on has got to -- we have to
10:09:25 consider some projects need to be delayed until we can
10:09:31 get some assessment whether they would make it through
10:09:34 a hurricane.
10:09:36 And that's the comment today, that we have got to get
10:09:39 ready for an aftermath of destructive storm, and we are
10:09:44 not prepared out in the communities.
10:09:45 We have got to share in this planning that the
10:09:47 emergency officials have done.
10:09:50 And for that purpose Monday, there's a homeless center
10:09:54 at the downtown Germany library.
10:09:57 (Bell sounds)
10:09:58 A series of meetings that will satellite out into the
10:10:01 neighborhood libraries as well as community centers.
10:10:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:10:05 >> Thank you very much.
10:10:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:10:08 Next speaker.
10:10:10 >>> Good morning.
10:10:15 My name is Mike Saliman, 2308 Berry road, Plant City,
10:10:24 I have reverend Jimmy Rodriguez and reverend Jerry
10:10:28 Mallory who will join me.
10:10:30 This morning I would like to speak on the heel me crew
10:10:34 side which is coming to --
10:10:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, sir, you can only speak to --
10:10:39 this is a workshop.
10:10:40 This is not our general meeting.
10:10:41 It is our workshop day.
10:10:43 So you are only allowed to speak on at this point the
10:10:46 Westshore presentation that just was made.
10:10:49 Any workshop item you can speak to but not on any item.
10:10:55 >>> Council, I was told that presentations would be
10:10:57 made today.
10:10:57 Is that correct?
10:10:59 >> workshop presentations but this is not our general
10:11:03 meeting day.
10:11:05 This is only for workshops.
10:11:06 >>> I apologize.
10:11:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Sorry for the misunderstanding.
10:11:12 We'll have our next workshop on transportation
10:11:15 >>> Randy Goers, Land Development Coordination
10:11:22 I have a very short presentation on the status of our
10:11:25 TCA procedures, after which we'll be available for
10:11:36 Can we bring our presentation up?
10:11:39 Maybe it won't come up.
10:11:50 I will improvise.
10:12:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's always good to have a print
10:12:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's up.
10:12:09 That's yours.
10:12:09 >> This is the schedule that we presented to you last
10:12:15 time that you I was here to give you an idea where we
10:12:18 are at and where we are going.
10:12:19 The area that's in blue is what we have completed so
10:12:22 far in terms of the status of the project.
10:12:25 We have started the stakeholder briefings.
10:12:28 We had one last month, about 25 people attended.
10:12:31 That briefing was -- we sent out notices to all the
10:12:34 neighborhood associations.
10:12:35 We also sent out e-mails to about 150 --
10:12:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think you just need to share with
10:12:43 the public what you are talking about.
10:12:45 >>> Okay.
10:12:46 Good point.
10:12:47 I got a little offtrack with the change in the
10:12:51 Here today to talk about the procedures to review the
10:12:55 projects that come in for transportation concurrency,
10:12:58 et cetera.
10:12:58 TCA, the short phrase for it.
10:13:05 Generally developments around the state are required
10:13:06 when they come in for a permit or rezoning, to ensure
10:13:11 that facilities are in place to for those developments.
10:13:15 That's called concurrency.
10:13:16 The state has made it mandatory for urbanized areas to
10:13:24 present them in that requirement on a statewide basis
10:13:27 or state regulation.
10:13:28 So local governments now need to put procedures in
10:13:30 place to review developments and make -- and allow them
10:13:34 to be exempt from concurrency.
10:13:35 What that means is we no longer have to or are required
10:13:38 to ensure that the facilities are in place at the time
10:13:41 of permitting or at the time of development, but we do
10:13:44 need to make sure that we can plan for mobility.
10:13:46 So rather than emphasizing only road construction, what
10:13:51 we are trying to do now is make sure we have facilities
10:13:53 in place where people can get to where they need to go,
10:13:57 walk, bike, use transit, use all the different modes.
10:14:00 So what we are looking at is the procedures that the
10:14:03 city will use when a development comes in for
10:14:06 application for development.
10:14:10 Getting back to the schedule.
10:14:11 Again, we started this process.
10:14:13 Over a year ago but we actually started the public
10:14:16 involvement process about a month ago, with our first
10:14:18 series of workshops.
10:14:20 We have also put in place a Web site, with all the
10:14:24 information that we are producing is available to the
10:14:25 public, and of course we are starting our briefings
10:14:29 with you, and today giving you a briefing of where we
10:14:32 are at with the process.
10:14:33 And we are also starting to do some outreach, for the
10:14:39 larger organizations, T.H.A.N.
10:14:40 We have contacted T.H.A.N. and offered a briefing to
10:14:42 them, the Westshore alliance, downtown partnership, and
10:14:45 so forth.
10:14:46 So the schedule here shows where we are at.
10:14:51 At the end I will come back and let you know what the
10:14:53 next steps are and the others as well.
10:14:57 When we talk about our transportation strategy, our
10:15:02 mobility strategy, we are really talking about a
10:15:04 variety of different pieces, and it gives you an idea
10:15:07 of all the things that we are talking about.
10:15:09 It's the rail.
10:15:10 It's roads.
10:15:10 It's sidewalks.
10:15:11 It's the transportation oriented zine design.
10:15:15 It's all of those things.
10:15:16 Today I'm talking about just that piece in the middle.
10:15:18 It's the review procedures for development.
10:15:22 So I may not speak to something that you may want to
10:15:25 talk about in terms of the overall mobility strategy.
10:15:28 It's because it's part of another piece.
10:15:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can I -- I just want to say that I
10:15:42 don't think the public generally knows what mitigation
10:15:46 You might want to think of a simpler or clearer word.
10:15:48 >>RANDY GOERS: Okay.
10:15:52 I will do that as we move forward.
10:15:54 From the comprehensive plan, this is the primary
10:15:59 objectives that we are trying to encourage in our
10:16:01 growth strategy, the comprehensive plan.
10:16:03 Basically we are trying to promote the highest
10:16:05 intensity in downtown Tampa.
10:16:07 We are trying to encourage growth in the business
10:16:10 The business centers are the Westshore business center,
10:16:12 the downtown area, and the University of South Florida
10:16:17 area that you can see in a little bit of brown.
10:16:22 We are also want to allow development in the rest of
10:16:24 the city, but we want to make sure that it progress
10:16:27 texts neighborhoods.
10:16:28 When we talk about mitigation, usually mitigation is a
10:16:32 term that's used when there is an impact of a
10:16:35 development, maybe too much traffic, there might be --
10:16:39 that it's causing some delays, and what we try to do is
10:16:43 mitigation, what can we do to help reduce that impact?
10:16:47 It might be changing, widening a road, adding a bus
10:16:51 We talk about mitigation.
10:16:53 We are talking about requirements or additions that can
10:16:55 reduce a negative impact.
10:16:59 The last item is to encourage mixed use development
10:17:02 along the transit corridors.
10:17:04 And the transit corridors are those areas that you see
10:17:08 in green are the existing bus routes that operate at
10:17:12 15-minute intervals.
10:17:14 The orange is the planned bus rapid transit system,
10:17:18 that Hart has funded.
10:17:19 So what we are trying to do, we are trying to encourage
10:17:24 development, new development in the areas that are
10:17:27 shaded, and we are trying to protect the neighborhoods,
10:17:30 the areas that are not shaded, and we do that by having
10:17:37 a scale of requirements.
10:17:39 It's yes, sir easier, it's less mitigation requirements
10:17:42 in the shaded area.
10:17:43 As you move away from those areas, the requirements go
10:17:48 I will run these very quickly.
10:17:51 You can see we talked about downtown.
10:17:53 This is what we are talking about downtown.
10:17:56 I am going to get to the perspective of how the city
10:17:58 would handle a developer coming in.
10:18:00 Because again it all goes back to what is it that a
10:18:03 developer is required to do.
10:18:04 So in this case, we want development to occur downtown.
10:18:07 So they would just pay their impact fee as they do now,
10:18:11 and again they would use the term mitigation.
10:18:14 They would mitigate for any impacts that development is
10:18:18 causing at their site.
10:18:20 That's exactly what happens today.
10:18:21 So we are not changing anything that happens in the
10:18:23 downtown area today.
10:18:28 In the business centers, the Westshore business
10:18:31 district, the downtown, and USF, it's very similar to
10:18:35 what happens today.
10:18:37 We have the mitigation of the site impacts.
10:18:39 They pay their impact fee.
10:18:42 De minimis is a term, we put that in because the
10:18:44 engineers would know what that means.
10:18:47 There are small projects which have a small impact.
10:18:51 Typically, by the time you look to inspect the money
10:18:54 through the analysis it wouldn't pay off.
10:18:57 It would costs you more to do the study than to figure
10:18:59 out what the impact is.
10:19:00 So there is a the projects that are small, they just
10:19:04 pay the exempt for the review.
10:19:07 >> What's the potential for de minimis?
10:19:11 >> I believe it's a traffic volume of one percent in
10:19:14 the corridor.
10:19:14 I think the city, our staff, has a little bit variation
10:19:17 of that.
10:19:19 We can get that to you and provide it to you by the end
10:19:23 of the day or maybe when Jean is here she can provide
10:19:27 that information.
10:19:30 The new part of this is that there is a potential for
10:19:34 what we call, traditionally called a pay as you go
10:19:39 That is part of the transportation analysis, there's a
10:19:43 determination that the project would have this
10:19:46 additional impact.
10:19:47 But there's no real project tied to it.
10:19:49 We just know that it's going to have an impact and the
10:19:52 develop worry pay a fee and the city would use that
10:19:54 money for projects that are on the list of projects to
10:19:57 be done.
10:19:58 It allows a little bit more flexibility.
10:20:00 It's quicker in terms of developer, because they pay
10:20:04 the fee and not very much to worry about a particular
10:20:07 So one way to deal with a situation on a deficient
10:20:15 In this case all approved DRIs, plans master plans
10:20:19 are recognized.
10:20:20 Meaning they have precedence.
10:20:22 Westshore has a DRI.
10:20:23 USF has a master plan.
10:20:25 The airport has a master plan.
10:20:26 And the port has a master plan.
10:20:28 So really we're talking in this area very small part,
10:20:32 and would be subject to anything new.
10:20:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What about 40th Street?
10:20:38 >>RANDY GOERS: I will talk about 40th Street as we
10:20:40 move forward.
10:20:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
10:20:45 The primary transit corridors is a new feature in TCA.
10:20:52 Up until now, the downtown and the business centers are
10:20:56 basically going to be regulated exactly the way they
10:20:59 have been in the past.
10:21:01 The primary transit corridors are new.
10:21:04 This map was supposed to come in in two different
10:21:07 You can see the corridors first and then the overlay
10:21:09 but it's all happening in one map.
10:21:11 So please bear with me on that.
10:21:13 But the shaded area is where we want to encourage
10:21:18 And the developers will be again doing their mitigation
10:21:22 or site impacts, that I pair impact fee, small projects
10:21:25 move forward, and they have to look at the pedestrian
10:21:29 What that means is, in this project, the red square
10:21:37 represents a potential development.
10:21:39 You can see where the stoplight is, is where a bus stop
10:21:42 might be.
10:21:42 They would have to show that a pedestrian can get from
10:21:46 their site and get to the crosswalk or get to the bus
10:21:50 It's not just assuming you can go from the red square
10:21:54 straight across to private property or whatever.
10:21:56 They have to actually see how the pedestrian would make
10:21:58 What is the condition of that condition path?
10:22:01 Is it safe?
10:22:01 Is there sidewalks and so forth?
10:22:04 So a developer would have an option and a choice.
10:22:09 Show us how the pedestrian network is going to work.
10:22:11 He may have the option of contributing to the
10:22:13 pedestrian network if it needs to be, or he can just do
10:22:16 a transportation study.
10:22:17 And come back and mitigate for all of the impacts that
10:22:20 are required.
10:22:21 We think it will be easier for them just to demonstrate
10:22:24 the pedestrian connectivity.
10:22:25 The goal in this part of the procedure is that we want
10:22:29 development to locate near transit.
10:22:32 But we don't just quantity them to locate near transit.
10:22:35 We want to make sure people can get to transit so want
10:22:38 to make sure we are paying attention not only to
10:22:40 location but the sensibility of the transit.
10:22:45 To answer your question on 40th Street, 40th Street is
10:22:50 not designated yet as a primary transit corridor.
10:22:54 It does not have the transit service at this point in
10:22:57 So it would be in this area, what we call the rest of
10:23:01 the city, where we want to allow development.
10:23:06 But as you can see, the list starts going up in terms
10:23:08 of what is going to be reviewed, in terms of
10:23:12 They still have to mitigate their site impact.
10:23:15 They still pay an impact fee.
10:23:16 Again the small projects are allowed to go.
10:23:19 There may be the pay-and-go assessment depending on the
10:23:23 impact on the network.
10:23:24 They have to get a transportation study.
10:23:26 But there also may be the requirement of specific
10:23:31 improvements that are related to neighborhood impact.
10:23:35 In these areas where the streets are very congested,
10:23:38 where there's already failure, the development will
10:23:40 have to look at its impact on the neighborhoods.
10:23:44 Is it generating traffic in the neighborhood?
10:23:46 Is it a safety issue?
10:23:48 All those kind of issues.
10:23:50 And you will have to come back with some
10:23:52 recommendations on what they would do to mitigate those
10:23:55 impacts to make sure that they can sort of lessen their
10:23:59 impact on the neighborhood.
10:24:01 Those could be additional traffic calming projects.
10:24:04 It could be some sidewalks.
10:24:05 It could be crosswalks and so forth.
10:24:08 But they will have to come back and make those
10:24:14 The developer has an option to come back and Rae scale
10:24:17 his development, if it's having too great an impact, if
10:24:19 the requirements seem to be too high, they can come
10:24:22 back and scale down their project to where maybe it's
10:24:24 not going to have a negative impact.
10:24:32 In a nutshell, the difference between how things are
10:24:42 reviewed today versus how they will be viewed in the
10:24:46 future, location now matters.
10:24:49 Under the prior TCA was always one area, everybody was
10:24:53 basically treated the same.
10:24:55 Now it matters.
10:24:56 We want to make the procedures match where we want to
10:25:01 guide developments.
10:25:03 And the requirements from a developer are less in the
10:25:05 areas where we want to bring new development.
10:25:08 The downtown, the primary transit corridors.
10:25:10 As you move away they become a little more onerous in
10:25:14 terms of requirements.
10:25:15 We now consider transit service and transit proximity,
10:25:18 so it's not just that they have a bus service on the
10:25:21 It has to be a service of a particular level.
10:25:29 Once light rail system gets approved, those rail
10:25:33 stations will be added as well as areas where the
10:25:36 review requirements will be adjusted.
10:25:46 So the pedestrian connectivity.
10:25:47 That was something that we didn't consider before, how
10:25:51 the pedestrian was actually going to get around and the
10:25:54 We are going to look at that.
10:25:55 Lastly, the neighborhood impacts.
10:25:57 We want to make sure that we are doing everything we
10:25:59 possibly can to look at the impact of a development on
10:26:02 the neighborhood.
10:26:03 And so forth.
10:26:05 The last item is also new.
10:26:09 The procedures really focus, as I mentioned, are
10:26:13 focused on what happens to a development coming in.
10:26:15 But it also assumes that the city and all the other
10:26:19 transit -- transportation entities are beginning to
10:26:24 align their CIP projects or CIP programs to support the
10:26:29 crime system.
10:26:30 That means over time we should start seeing more and
10:26:32 more projects from us, from Hart, from FDOT, any other
10:26:38 agencies, spending more money in these areas where we
10:26:41 want to encourage development.
10:26:43 To be able to make the areas even more attractive, more
10:26:46 supportive of the pedestrian transit experience.
10:26:48 So that is the bottom line of the major differences.
10:26:51 I will say there is there's issues that we are still
10:26:55 working on, that we hope to have resolved, as we move
10:26:59 One of them is the -- because these are procedures,
10:27:04 they apply to regional needs, and new development
10:27:07 So they have to be consistent.
10:27:09 Because you cannot have two processes that are going to
10:27:12 be using the same procedures.
10:27:14 As council, you have a little bit of flexibility in
10:27:16 rezoning to be able to ask for things from a developer.
10:27:20 The staff, with a permit do not.
10:27:25 When we say something has to be required we want to
10:27:27 know for sure that's what we are going to require
10:27:29 because staff is going to require that and won't have
10:27:31 any flexibility.
10:27:32 Developers will have an opportunity to go through a
10:27:34 variance if they choose but the flexibility is very
10:27:37 The second one that we are working on is the concept of
10:27:40 pedestrian connectivity.
10:27:41 We know that we can require developer to do a lot of
10:27:44 things on this property.
10:27:46 When we start moving property there are a lot of issues
10:27:50 we need to work out, and we need to make sure that
10:27:53 whatever we again require in the ordinance that is
10:27:55 defensible and we have the right procedures in place to
10:27:57 do what we want to do.
10:27:58 And then the third item is the neighborhood mitigation.
10:28:02 It sounds good to be able to say that the developer
10:28:05 will do something to lessen the impact on a
10:28:08 We are still trying to figure out to make sure that we
10:28:10 have the right logical formula to do that.
10:28:16 We know right-of-way is public right-of-way.
10:28:18 People can drive through a neighborhood now even
10:28:20 without an impact of a developer.
10:28:22 So we have to make sure that we know what it is that we
10:28:25 are asking a developer to do and it can be done.
10:28:28 We have not found a community yet that has the right
10:28:30 formula, but that's our challenge the next three
10:28:32 months, those three issues.
10:28:34 I think if we have everything else addressed, we think
10:28:38 those three issues we need to fine tune over the next
10:28:40 three months.
10:28:41 Moving forward, the schedule is, we have two more
10:28:49 stakeholder meetings scheduled, one for each of the
10:28:52 next two months, where we hope to work out some of the
10:28:56 The next meeting is really more of an open discussion
10:28:58 where we are going to invite the stakeholders to come,
10:29:02 and really tell us what they think needs to be looked
10:29:05 at, if they didn't understand, if they don't think it's
10:29:08 going to work, issues, those kinds of things so we can
10:29:11 try to resolve those before the stakeholders meeting.
10:29:15 We are going to continue with our small group briefings
10:29:18 that we have through May.
10:29:20 We are coming back to you at the end of May for the
10:29:23 workshop which we hope will be a final draft of an
10:29:25 ordinance, that we hope will resolve all of the issues,
10:29:29 and the concerns that are brought forward on the
10:29:32 And if that is the case, and we get your go ahead, then
10:29:37 we'll have a final ordinance ready for moving to the
10:29:40 adoption phase by June.
10:29:42 We do have all of this information is available, to the
10:29:52 Land Development Coordination Web site.
10:29:54 There will be a link to bring you to this page which
10:29:56 tracks all the information that we produced.
10:29:58 We have the meeting schedule with the stakeholder
10:29:59 meetings, the summary of the meetings, the information
10:30:02 that we provide to council.
10:30:05 What's underlined here are the procedures, the draft
10:30:07 procedures that we are working on at this point, and
10:30:12 what we hope to bring back to you in an ordinance form.
10:30:15 So that concludes my presentation.
10:30:17 And I appreciate you working with me when the
10:30:21 technology sort of slipped there.
10:30:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
10:30:25 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:30:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Randy.
10:30:28 Over in the corner, I have two interns with us today,
10:30:32 Gabriella out at USF and a high school student from New
10:30:38 And so Tess and I were talking about traveling in New
10:30:42 Tampa and Bruce B. Downs and that sort of thing.
10:30:45 You didn't discuss New Tampa.
10:30:47 I think I know why.
10:30:48 But what's the relationship of the concurrency area,
10:30:53 exception and all of that to New Tampa?
10:30:56 >>RANDY GOERS: It's a good question.
10:30:57 I'm glad you brought it up so I can report on that.
10:31:00 Presently, New Tampa is not part of the city's
10:31:04 concurrency exception area.
10:31:06 However, because of the legislation that was passed
10:31:09 last year, the state now requires -- the entire city is
10:31:16 now a TCA.
10:31:17 So we are processing a plan amendment in this cycle,
10:31:20 the March cycle, to recognize the entire city is now in
10:31:25 a concurrency exception area and will be putting
10:31:28 forward some updated policies to address New Tampa.
10:31:32 We think New Tampa is going to basically be an in-fill
10:31:36 area like the rest of the city, the neighborhood area
10:31:39 with neighborhood mitigation.
10:31:40 But almost all of New Tampa is regulated by a DRI or
10:31:43 existing development order.
10:31:44 So those agreements are going to remain in place unless
10:31:51 the city and the developer decide mutually they want to
10:31:55 change that.
10:31:55 So we think it's going to be addressed the same way
10:31:58 that it's always been through the DRI, but we are going
10:32:01 to make sure we put policies in place to review the
10:32:03 procedures, similar to the way they would be in a
10:32:07 neighborhood area, should things change.
10:32:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
10:32:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:32:14 Real briefly, when this comes to the public, I hope
10:32:16 that you will get some of the citizen advisory people
10:32:19 to give you advice on what terms might not be clear to
10:32:24 the public, and really attempt to make it as clear as
10:32:27 possible, because we need the public to understand the
10:32:30 ramifications of this.
10:32:31 And I want to cite to you an example something I think
10:32:35 was a very successful mitigation effort.
10:32:37 If you think of Kennedy Boulevard to the west of
10:32:39 Westshore, the neighborhood to the south of it was
10:32:43 being very intensely impacted by the commercial
10:32:47 development along Westshore, and in response to that
10:32:50 they developed a suggestion of cul-de-sacking most of
10:32:53 the streets except for there's a street with a light,
10:32:56 and I see Ms. Vizzi in the audience today who was a
10:32:59 real spokesperson for that effort.
10:33:01 And it really was successful.
10:33:02 I mean, it kept a lot of the cut-through traffic from
10:33:05 cutting through.
10:33:06 I believe there's still some but it's much less than it
10:33:08 would have been were it not for the cul-de-sacs.
10:33:11 So I hope that as we look at this, you recognize the
10:33:15 close relationship between land use and transportation
10:33:18 decisions, and the idea that we really need to protect
10:33:22 the neighborhoods from the cut-through traffic.
10:33:26 Pedestrians can still get through.
10:33:28 Bicyclists can still get through.
10:33:29 But cut-through single occupancy vehicles can't and I
10:33:33 think that's the kind of thinking many of our
10:33:36 neighborhoods want, as we grow, as we want to the
10:33:39 protect some of the neighborhoods from the commercial
10:33:41 >>RANDY GOERS: That's a good point.
10:33:44 Thank you.
10:33:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You know, Linda, as we are
10:33:50 eventually leaving council this year, I think you bring
10:33:54 up a really good point, because sometimes -- and I'm
10:33:57 glad Steve Daignault and, Jean, that you are here to
10:34:00 listen to this.
10:34:01 Sometimes when we have heard PDs come in, and for
10:34:06 rezonings, we would be told things like, well, you
10:34:13 know, on-street parking, for example, the developer
10:34:16 would really like to use some of the street for
10:34:18 on-street parking, but we can't address this in the PD
10:34:21 because we have to wait until transportation staff
10:34:24 reviews it down the road and later.
10:34:26 And so then what happens, Jean, is that the community,
10:34:31 who is here for that rezoning, doesn't really have any
10:34:34 comfort level, that some of the parking deficiencies
10:34:37 might be made up in the public realm, instead with the
10:34:42 concurrence of your staff.
10:34:44 So I know it might not be real relevant to us this
10:34:48 year, but when zonings do pick up, I hope that your
10:34:51 staff can if you go out a way to inject yourself into
10:34:55 that PD process and come to the PD with, you know, with
10:35:00 those assurances to the community, that we are working
10:35:04 with them, or we will work with them, and we will
10:35:06 accommodate these issues.
10:35:07 And that way, in the PD gets approved, it's more
10:35:12 Does that sound reasonable?
10:35:13 >>> Jean Dorzback, transportation manager.
10:35:20 You pointed this out when I stepped out of the room,
10:35:23 but that is our goal to do that.
10:35:24 And the other additional component that doesn't exist
10:35:28 now is we will also be putting this review on as a
10:35:31 commercial site plan level as well.
10:35:34 So those projects that don't meet that threshold of a
10:35:37 PD or rezoning level review will have the same type of
10:35:40 review when they go to the CSD department for
10:35:46 commercial site plan review.
10:35:47 But besides adding this additional review, methodology,
10:35:50 or increasing the level of that in terms of putting it
10:35:54 down to the commercial site plan review level as well.
10:35:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Good.
10:35:58 >>RANDY GOERS: If I could add to that.
10:36:00 One distinction in the past, which you typically heard
10:36:03 is that the developer will come for a rezoning and
10:36:05 they'll say to you, this is all taken care of in
10:36:07 concurrency, later on
10:36:09 And the existing ordinance of chapter 70.5 has all the
10:36:14 concurrency procedures which exempts people from
10:36:17 review, where what we are moving forward is chapter
10:36:20 17.5 will still say the development, concurrency for
10:36:27 state rules, but all of them must still meet the review
10:36:30 requirements that are specified in these procedures,
10:36:32 which will be in chapter 25.
10:36:33 So regardless of their exemption from concurrency, our
10:36:38 position is there are still procedures, minimum
10:36:40 procedures and review requirements, that must be met,
10:36:42 just like all the other departments that have their own
10:36:47 review procedures.
10:36:47 So it's going to apply to all development permits and
10:36:50 rezonings except for those that are exempt are from the
10:36:54 DRIs or the de minimis and so forth.
10:36:57 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
10:37:01 If I can make one additional comment about that.
10:37:02 Because you all know how I feel about process and I get
10:37:05 very excited about process and continue to try to bring
10:37:08 to you processes that I think will be much more
10:37:11 One of the things that will also be coming forward to
10:37:13 you is the changes to our processes as it relates to
10:37:16 commercial site plan review.
10:37:18 In the July cycle so that we can deal with issues, not
10:37:22 just at the PD site plan level but all properties, and
10:37:26 the development are reviewed for these issues, and
10:37:28 hopefully that will alleviate some of the concerns and
10:37:31 fears, but also make it easier for everybody to look at
10:37:35 things at the proper point in time.
10:37:37 I just throw that out so when I bring it forward you
10:37:40 understand it's part of the bigger context.
10:37:42 Thank you.
10:37:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
10:37:43 Anyone from the public wish to address council at this
10:37:52 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 south Sherill.
10:37:55 I thought I was going to get some more presentation but
10:37:58 I guess not.
10:37:58 The only concern and thing that I keep asking is, we
10:38:01 always hear that impact fees can only be used for road
10:38:08 And because the legislature has passed that -- and I
10:38:11 still haven't heard anything that's going to change
10:38:13 that so we can use some of those impact fees.
10:38:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
10:38:23 Anyone else from the public?
10:38:24 >>> Jean Dorzback, transportation manager.
10:38:35 There is legislation.
10:38:37 We are working with the county on looking at mobility
10:38:40 fees that would be a fee that would have more
10:38:44 flexibility to it than the current impact fees.
10:38:47 Ms. Vizzi correct, the current it impact fees ordinance
10:38:51 only allows money to be spent on capacity related
10:38:54 projects so there are limitations.
10:38:55 So that is something that these procedures that Randy
10:38:58 outlined for development are set up to seamlessly allow
10:39:02 for transition to a mobility fee if we get to the point
10:39:06 in time where that is a decision that the city makes
10:39:09 that we want to do and go forward with.
10:39:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is something that's really
10:39:15 important to us, so, Jean, what can we as City Council,
10:39:18 the things it's better to expand the definition, what
10:39:21 can we do to support this?
10:39:24 I believe you said a decision is being made by the
10:39:27 county that will impact the city.
10:39:28 So can City Council pass a resolution asking that the
10:39:31 county do this?
10:39:32 Because it's something that was would benefit us?
10:39:34 >> I suppose you could.
10:39:35 The county is actively exploring it.
10:39:37 They have invited the city to participate more in what
10:39:42 I will call a monitoring role at this point, to see
10:39:45 what they are developing and make sure that what they
10:39:47 are coming up with is consistent with our procedures
10:39:51 and our vision for roads in the city.
10:39:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Since we really care about this,
10:39:56 instead of being more in a passive monitoring role, why
10:39:59 don't we go to the county and say this is what we would
10:40:02 like to see in this?
10:40:04 Can we do that?
10:40:05 >>> Yes, we can do that.
10:40:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, I would like to do that.
10:40:09 I would like to ask the staff go to the county as they
10:40:13 are developing this mobility fee and include the
10:40:16 considerations that we have, because we are the most
10:40:19 impacted by this because we have the greatest number of
10:40:22 roads that can't be widened, that we want to be see
10:40:25 money spent on sidewalks, transit, transportation, bike
10:40:29 lanes, that sort of thing.
10:40:30 >>RANDY GOERS: Land Development Coordination.
10:40:33 We have met with -- the county has invited the city to
10:40:37 participate and we actually have a meeting with the
10:40:39 county staff, spearheading their process a couple weeks
10:40:43 ago, to go over what we are doing here with our
10:40:45 procedures, and so they could share with us how they
10:40:47 are approaching mobility fee.
10:40:49 We both walked away that we are on parallel tracks,
10:40:52 that each of us are doing -- moving along that it won't
10:40:59 conflict with what the other is proposing.
10:41:03 And we have agreed to work with the county staff, and
10:41:06 if they are able to come up with a mobility fee, it
10:41:08 will actually fit right in to what we are doing.
10:41:11 Our procedures already say transportation impact fee,
10:41:15 or its equivalent, meaning that once a mobility fee
10:41:19 gets passed, we will have that equivalent in place to
10:41:22 begin using it for a variety of other capital projects.
10:41:25 So I think in terms of an action, your staff is already
10:41:29 doing what you are asking them to do, and that is we
10:41:32 are working with the county and sharing information and
10:41:34 trying to come up with a common approach.
10:41:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Just report back to us when you
10:41:39 accomplish it.
10:41:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
10:41:41 We will move on to our next workshop, the multimodal
10:41:44 >>> Jean Dorzback, transportation manager.
10:41:50 I do believe that we have got technology in place for
10:41:53 my presentation.
10:41:54 Thank you.
10:41:58 I want to talk to you a little bit about mobility
10:42:00 strategy, and explain a little bit further how we go
10:42:04 from the comprehensive plan that lays out our vision
10:42:06 for our city to the TCA procedures, the concurrency
10:42:11 procedures that will encourage the growth in those
10:42:14 areas of our city.
10:42:16 And then the third piece, which would be the
10:42:19 infrastructure, it will have the multimodal system that
10:42:22 supports that growth, that we are encouraging through
10:42:25 the procedures that Randy just explained to you.
10:42:30 Basically, wave got our Hillsborough County long-range
10:42:33 transportation plan.
10:42:34 That is our blueprint for mobility, and multimodal
10:42:38 mobility within the county.
10:42:39 And there's various agencies that have their
10:42:43 responsibilities and their systems that they are
10:42:45 responsible for.
10:42:46 The first is Hart.
10:42:49 And the exciting thing about our plan as it comes along
10:42:52 is that there are some systems and modes within this
10:42:55 plan that weren't really emphasized in the past.
10:42:58 And the current long-range transportation plan does
10:43:00 include a light rail component as well as enhanced bus
10:43:06 service that you haven't seen in the past.
10:43:10 >> The streetcar is included in there as well.
10:43:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Doesn't it deserve a little --
10:43:16 >>> Yes, we should have a public piece for that as
10:43:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I feel like the streetcar always
10:43:21 gets left out.
10:43:22 >>> We are taking it for granted, but our hope is to
10:43:30 add it to be more enhanced than what it currently is,
10:43:33 and we are looking for that to being completed.
10:43:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In the future cot play an enlarger
10:43:38 >>> Yes.
10:43:40 The other components that we have within this
10:43:42 multimodal plan is under the responsibility of the
10:43:48 And as you I'm sure know includes the high speed rail
10:43:52 as well as that complementing the light rail system
10:43:56 that Hart is doing.
10:43:56 So these are two major pieces in the long-range plan
10:44:00 that didn't exist prior in terms of actually being more
10:44:03 of a reality.
10:44:06 The other components of the plan are the responsibility
10:44:09 of the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County, and the
10:44:11 expressway authority, and those of course are our roads
10:44:14 and our interstates, and the expressway toll roads.
10:44:19 Another very important component that is going to be
10:44:23 getting more attention within this current long-range
10:44:26 plan are sidewalks, trails, and bicycles.
10:44:31 Those are mainly the responsibility of the City of
10:44:32 Tampa and Hillsborough County, although the expressway
10:44:37 authority, Hart and D.O.T. also has projects that do
10:44:41 yield some pedestrian and bicycle improvements.
10:44:49 The other piece, if I can see it on there
10:44:53 The graphic was covered up.
10:45:01 The Aviation Authority and the Tampa Port Authority.
10:45:03 And there is a lot of close coordination with the
10:45:06 multimodal plan with the airport, and the port.
10:45:09 For example, the I-4 connector was closely coordinated
10:45:12 with the container expansion that's occurring at the
10:45:15 port of Tampa.
10:45:17 And the Aviation Authority has been very much in the
10:45:20 mix with the local transit project that Hart is
10:45:26 So even though as you see each has their piece of this
10:45:29 multimodal puzzle, there is a lot of interagency
10:45:33 coordination between these agencies to make sure
10:45:35 there's a good fit.
10:45:40 I hope you all have seen an evolution of this over the
10:45:44 past few years is the land use zoning and the
10:45:46 form-based code portion.
10:45:49 And the City of Tampa is taking a very strong effort to
10:45:53 making sure that land use and transportation are much
10:45:55 more communicating in sync than maybe was occurring in
10:46:01 the past.
10:46:02 And then you heard from Randy just a few minutes ago.
10:46:06 One of the key components of all of this is the
10:46:09 procedures that we are proposing that are going to
10:46:11 ensure and encourage the growth to occur, where the
10:46:18 infrastructure systems are being planned and where the
10:46:20 city's vision for growth is through a comprehensive
10:46:25 I want to speak a little more about the City of Tampa's
10:46:30 piece in this puzzle.
10:46:32 We have several layers in our plan.
10:46:33 And we have got the road and intersection layer that we
10:46:36 traditionally had that will have some widening
10:46:39 projects, intersection improvement projects,
10:46:42 intersection expansion projects,
10:46:45 We are also looking at adding a layer of safety
10:46:47 projects and working through the pedestrian safety
10:46:50 action committee to identify those projects, make some
10:46:54 better use of our accident data to identify the places
10:46:59 we want to place our resources for those types of
10:47:03 The other layer in this plan, we are using a new label
10:47:07 for it, and that is complete streets.
10:47:09 And I do want to give a little more detail about that,
10:47:11 if I could divert for a moment, just put this on the
10:47:16 This graphic was actually present to the transportation
10:47:35 task force that Mr. Scott sat on over at Hillsborough
10:47:42 And these projects evolved through the development of
10:47:45 the trim plan.
10:47:48 What we did was took the Hart transit plan, the future
10:47:52 corridor for the light rail and the current road
10:47:56 We identified road projects that would be supportive of
10:48:01 transit that's going to be coming in and development or
10:48:04 planning in certain areas.
10:48:05 And we identified a set of projects that will provide
10:48:08 for other modes of travel such as bus pulloffs, bus
10:48:16 shelters, bicycle lanes, sidewalks, and the plan is to
10:48:20 take our current roadways, utilize portions of those
10:48:24 roadways that are not being utilized to their maximum,
10:48:28 and putting in enhancements that will allow for other
10:48:32 modes of transit, travel and so forth, that will
10:48:36 complement our -- complement our future transit system,
10:48:39 and calling these projects complete streets.
10:48:41 And there's actually a movement nationwide to do better
10:48:43 with our current resources, and make better use of
10:48:48 facilities that we currently have, by adding other
10:48:51 assets to them to make them more friendly for other
10:48:55 forms of travel other than the traditional roadway
10:48:58 So we are excited about this portion of our plan.
10:49:01 We have actually got a couple of these projects
10:49:03 identified in the transportation task force report,
10:49:07 which is part of the transit referendum, and the City
10:49:10 of Tampa is actually going to be starting out one of
10:49:14 these projects, the North Boulevard project, we are
10:49:17 currently in the process of scoping that project,
10:49:20 planning to use some sidewalk and traffic calming to go
10:49:25 forward with that project, and that is going to be our
10:49:28 complete street project that we are going to start out
10:49:31 I just want to give a little more information about
10:49:32 that particular type of project.
10:49:35 And you are going to see the interactual plan as it
10:49:39 comes forward.
10:49:43 The other two portions of our plan we are also very
10:49:46 excited about the bicycles, sidewalks and trails.
10:49:50 We have been in close communication with the MPO, and
10:49:53 we are actually working on a scope and a project to
10:49:56 have the MPO fund a master plan for bicycles and
10:50:01 sidewalks within the City of Tampa.
10:50:03 That is a requirement of the mobility plan, and they
10:50:10 have been very helpful in coordinating with us on this.
10:50:13 We are probably going to start with the growth areas in
10:50:15 the city, and may not have funds for the entire City of
10:50:17 Tampa limits but at least we have a starting point.
10:50:19 We are going to build on that.
10:50:20 And we are looking forward to working with the MPO in
10:50:23 that particular master plan. so, again, this is all
10:50:28 part of -- as I'm sure you heard, Senate bill 360.
10:50:32 We have these requirements, updated mobility plans,
10:50:35 update our policies, we will be presenting a five-year
10:50:39 plan as part of that update.
10:50:41 We are looking at having all this occur within the
10:50:43 March 2010 plan amendment cycle which means we have a
10:50:47 lot of work to do.
10:50:48 We are looking at finishing this in June of this year.
10:50:51 And it will be coming to you as a plan amendment I
10:50:55 believe in July.
10:50:56 If you have any questions, I would be happy to take
10:51:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions?
10:51:01 Councilman Dingfelder.
10:51:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Jean, you guys talked about this
10:51:05 yesterday, and ironically there was an editorial in the
10:51:08 "St. Pete Times" this morning.
10:51:09 I don't know if you saw it.
10:51:12 It's a little disturbing because it speaks to what's
10:51:16 going on in Tallahassee as we speak as related to
10:51:21 Senate bill 360, and as related to some other growth
10:51:28 management issues, and basically what I digest out of
10:51:31 the editorial sounds to me like they are trying to take
10:51:36 away local governments' discretion when it comes to
10:51:40 using these different tools to guide good development
10:51:46 down the road, and especially as it relates to some of
10:51:49 these transportation and traffic issues.
10:51:52 And so I think that I urge you to read it, and I don't
10:51:56 know, I can't recall what we are doing for lobbyists
10:51:59 right now in Tallahassee, but that really need to jump
10:52:03 on this, work with the League of Cities, work with the
10:52:06 Florida association of counties, and make sure that
10:52:08 this legislation is not going to hurt our ability as
10:52:11 local government to control and guide and manage our
10:52:15 growth in the future.
10:52:17 >>> It's interesting because it seemed as though this
10:52:22 movement has been just the opposite through what you
10:52:24 heard so far.
10:52:25 So I will look into that.
10:52:27 We keep our eye on it.
10:52:29 Randy does a very good job of tracking with the
10:52:32 legislation as well.
10:52:32 >> I had heard some good things.
10:52:36 We talked about what the community of public affairs
10:52:38 was doing which was some good things but it appears
10:52:41 over in the legislature, I'm not sure if the Senate or
10:52:43 the house or both, they have some different ideas.
10:52:46 And probably being guided by certain aspects of the
10:52:56 hard core development community that basically is
10:52:58 trying to strip local government of our ability to work
10:53:00 on these important issues.
10:53:02 So Randy, if that's your realm, or whoever it is that
10:53:07 works with our lobbyists, we need to make sure we are
10:53:09 on it before the train runs us over.
10:53:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:53:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for bringing that up, Mr.
10:53:17 It was very concerning.
10:53:19 I wanted to compliment you.
10:53:22 In all the years of looking at mobility issues, before
10:53:24 this council, the administration has never had a
10:53:29 broader view, a more comprehensive holistic view.
10:53:33 You are looking at the impacts of transportation on
10:53:35 land use.
10:53:36 You are looking at a variety of modes of
10:53:38 This is really good news.
10:53:40 And I'm just so pleased to get this report.
10:53:42 And when you redo the puzzle, also put in water
10:53:47 Much of Tampa touches either the river or the bay, and
10:53:50 it's an area that we haven't explored, and has great
10:53:54 opportunity for us in the future, and something -- it's
10:53:57 clean, and it's something we should take advantage of
10:53:59 as we think broadly about how to meet our
10:54:02 transportation needs, and also it's more fun.
10:54:04 >>> Yes.
10:54:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If there are no other questions we'll
10:54:10 take public comment.
10:54:11 Anyone from the public wish to address council?
10:54:13 Okay then, we'll move to our next workshop.
10:54:26 >>> Jean Dorzback, transportation manager.
10:54:28 I had meant to frame this presentation as touching on
10:54:32 the prior two motions that were made.
10:54:35 So if there are any other questions on either the
10:54:37 motions, I would be glad to take those.
10:54:40 But the intent was to give a comprehensive overview
10:54:42 that addresses the motion.
10:54:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:54:45 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:54:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Quick question.
10:54:47 I'm very glad that we are taking this complete streets
10:54:50 It's great.
10:54:50 You mention North Boulevard.
10:54:52 From where to where and what's the time frame?
10:54:54 >>> We are still scoping the time frame to see based on
10:54:57 the funding we have available.
10:54:59 Generally looking between Kennedy Boulevard, bridge and
10:55:05 Martin Luther King Boulevard.
10:55:07 So we'll decide on the exact project limits once we
10:55:09 come to decide on the on how far we can carry the
10:55:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think that that would be a great
10:55:15 area, because you have got the University of Tampa.
10:55:18 You have got Blake high school.
10:55:20 Tampa prep.
10:55:21 You have got the Boys and Girls Club.
10:55:25 Lots of different uses of pedestrian activity by young
10:55:29 people that if we can make it safer that would be a
10:55:31 good thing.
10:55:32 >>> Yes.
10:55:34 We are looking forward to doing that project.
10:55:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
10:55:36 Thank you.
10:55:37 We move to our last workshop then.
10:55:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to make a procedural
10:55:45 Nothing substantive.
10:55:46 I would like to ask Mr. Daignault to come back to us in
10:55:50 three weeks with an update on the legislation that's
10:55:54 pending in Tallahassee and specifically as related to
10:55:56 these transportation issues and management issues.
10:56:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:56:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:56:04 All in favor?
10:56:06 Moved and carried.
10:56:07 We'll have our 10:00 now alcoholic beverage rules
10:56:14 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:56:19 Just as a recap, we looked back at the language, when
10:56:25 the workshop was originally scheduled.
10:56:26 It was originally scheduled to discuss council policies
10:56:30 on alcoholic beverage decisions.
10:56:32 Specifically, the request to look how other
10:56:35 jurisdictions reviewed them as well.
10:56:38 Just to recap, also, we made a big change in the
10:56:41 special use process to create alcoholic beverages,
10:56:45 special use land use process about two years ago,
10:56:48 changing it from the old wet zoning process to the new.
10:56:52 We do recognize that now we have seen this over the
10:56:55 last two years, we have had virtually every type of
10:56:57 alcohol request that we probably could get, at least a
10:57:01 good arrangement of them, and we understand some of the
10:57:03 streamlining processes that we probably should go
10:57:06 We do anticipate some changes to the alcoholic beverage
10:57:09 special use process as well as the overall special use
10:57:12 process within the next cycle.
10:57:18 You do have a copy, I believe, at the table that was
10:57:24 sent through N.reviewing how the other jurisdictions do
10:57:26 it, there's, I believe, 14 of them.
10:57:29 In looking at how we do it, I came up with just a few
10:57:34 We found three major themes in the other jurisdictions,
10:57:37 and their review process.
10:57:39 The first being geography.
10:57:42 Setting up specific districts or locations within these
10:57:44 cities or counties that have some specialty or
10:57:50 specialness about them.
10:57:51 Maybe it be a special business district, a beach
10:57:56 Maybe it's a certain neighborhood or certain group of
10:57:58 neighborhoods that have a certain business district or
10:58:01 business corridor.
10:58:03 So looking at those in particular, Ft. Lauderdale,
10:58:08 which is on page 2, just as an example, it says under
10:58:12 separation requirements, they call it an entertainment
10:58:16 At the bottom of that, that particular cell, it says
10:58:22 bar, cocktail lounge, night clubs, not allowed in a
10:58:26 certain beach district.
10:58:27 Miami, Orlando, St. Pete have special letters for
10:58:32 specialized districts in their area.
10:58:33 Tampa's regulations, however, in comparison are
10:58:35 city-wide, with a slightly enhanced requirement for
10:58:39 large venues.
10:58:41 Those are venues with over 299 occupant load.
10:58:45 And specifically those locations without a kitchen.
10:58:48 And it says in the code right now that those city-wide
10:58:52 requirements, hours of operations are required to be
10:58:56 listed on the plan, and then also in the central
10:59:00 business district, Ybor and the Channel District, they
10:59:02 are also required to describe a noise attenuation plan
10:59:07 an security plan.
10:59:07 So in comparison our regulations are city-wide, with a
10:59:11 slight enhancement for larger venues without kitchens.
10:59:15 Only that particular type of use.
10:59:18 No other district in the city is called out
10:59:20 specifically with any other type of requirements.
10:59:22 The second theme we found was use regulating and giving
10:59:27 permits by use, whatever the underlying use is.
10:59:30 It looks -- they set up certain levels of approval by
10:59:34 Most jurisdictions in the table that we found do allow
10:59:38 an administrative approval for specific uses.
10:59:41 And the examples typically are restaurants, hotels, and
10:59:45 beer and wine package stores.
10:59:50 If you look at the first page, Delray Beach, it says no
10:59:55 preapproval needed except for bars.
11:00:00 They specifically exclude bars as one of the uses that
11:00:02 has a higher potential for something.
11:00:04 They specifically say that there's no distance
11:00:06 separation requirements for restaurants.
11:00:08 One PS, a beer package store, 2 PS, beer and wine
11:00:14 package store, accessory to a grocery store.
11:00:17 So they highlight uses typical to neighborhoods or
11:00:20 neighborhood serving uses.
11:00:21 They allow those to go forward on a certain level of
11:00:25 approval and others have to meet the full requirement.
11:00:29 That's Delray Beach.
11:00:30 There's also Ft. Lauderdale, Fort Myers, Gainesville,
11:00:32 Jacksonville, Miami-Dade county, Orlando, Sarasota, and
11:00:35 St. Pete.
11:00:37 They also have specific use requirements.
11:00:40 Looking at another one quickly, Jacksonville, on page
11:00:45 H1N1, there is no preapproval required if the sale of
11:00:50 alcohol is the primary use.
11:00:51 Separation requirements are verified at time of signoff
11:00:54 for state license.
11:00:55 It says specifically that the separation requirements,
11:00:58 there are none for off-premise consumption for beer and
11:01:01 wine so that would be a package store for beer and wine
11:01:03 only like a 7-Eleven or wine store, something like
11:01:07 Hotel, 100-plus rooms, with a state license.
11:01:11 And incorporated clubs.
11:01:14 Typically that would be the American Legion, or a
11:01:18 veterans hall, something like that.
11:01:22 As I said, there are many of the other jurisdictions
11:01:25 have specific use requirements as well.
11:01:27 And you can see in the themes where there are certain
11:01:29 uses that are called out specifically that you have to
11:01:32 meet everything.
11:01:33 Maybe there is no administrative approval.
11:01:35 And typically what you see through these requirements,
11:01:38 most restrictions hold the bar or nightclub to a higher
11:01:43 Then the typical restaurant use, or hotels with a
11:01:47 certain number of size rooms, they would have typically
11:01:50 an in-house bar or room service or smaller package
11:01:55 stores that you would find in a convenience store
11:01:57 setting would be allowed through a certain process with
11:02:02 less distance requirements.
11:02:03 Tampa, however, reviews all of its applications with
11:02:06 the exception of one type and a public hearing
11:02:09 regardless of use.
11:02:11 You get everything except for the restaurant, and a
11:02:15 large commercial establishment of 500,000 square feet
11:02:18 or more, that is willing to close at midnight.
11:02:21 Those are the only ones that you don't get, if they are
11:02:24 willing to meet that criteria.
11:02:26 Everything else comes to council.
11:02:27 Everything else has the same criteria.
11:02:33 The third theme that we found through all the other
11:02:37 jurisdictions is the distance separation.
11:02:41 >>MARY MULHERN: Cathy, I have your chart, which is
11:02:47 great, but you don't have something that you are
11:02:52 presenting to us?
11:02:56 >>> Just my notes.
11:02:57 >>MARY MULHERN: So I should be listening better.
11:03:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A lot of those are already in here.
11:03:02 >>> I am summarizing it for you.
11:03:04 I pulled it all from this.
11:03:06 >>MARY MULHERN: But your findings.
11:03:11 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I could make a copy for you, if you
11:03:18 I will do that as soon as I am done after questions.
11:03:20 The third theme we found is distance separation.
11:03:23 And you can see in the table virtually everyone has a
11:03:25 distance separation with the exception of a couple
11:03:30 However, the distance separations are typically set up
11:03:34 for appropriate distances, but by types of use selling
11:03:40 Most restrictions have some level of distance, as I
11:03:44 Most have less than 1,000 feet.
11:03:46 The variety majority have less than a thousand feet.
11:03:48 And most have varying distance by use, and from what
11:03:53 use it is being separated.
11:03:54 Not every use is treated the same.
11:03:57 Many of the jurisdictions have nothing for residential,
11:04:00 but they have maybe 500 feet for churches, 300 feet
11:04:03 from other alcoholic beverage establishments.
11:04:06 Some have specific requirements for schools.
11:04:12 Some have other requirements for other types of
11:04:14 alcoholic beverage establishments, not all of them.
11:04:18 And I actually had my note to highlight all of them,
11:04:21 because all of them are different.
11:04:23 Most of them, probably the biggest percentage is
11:04:27 somewhere between 3 and 500 feet for those other uses.
11:04:30 And as you mentioned you will see the residential is
11:04:32 listed as "none" for a lot of them.
11:04:36 Noting Hillsborough County, just because it's our
11:04:38 neighboring jurisdiction, all approvals are
11:04:41 administrative unless there are waivers needed.
11:04:43 Those waivers would come to land use hearing officer or
11:04:46 board, in this particular case, if it were Tampa.
11:04:49 Churches and community uses are 500 feet.
11:04:51 Schools are 500 feet.
11:04:52 Residential, if it's a beer or wine package store, it's
11:04:56 50 feet.
11:04:56 From a side yard and 20 from a rear yard.
11:05:00 Alcoholic beverage restaurants and alcoholic beverage
11:05:02 hotels 150 feet.
11:05:05 And then a full liquor package store, beer and wine
11:05:09 consumption on premises, and full liquor consumption on
11:05:13 premises is only 250 feet.
11:05:17 Other alcoholic beverage establishments, it's none.
11:05:20 But no more than three within a thousand feet.
11:05:23 So they look more in a concentration of multiple
11:05:28 That's just the highlight of Hillsborough County.
11:05:29 But if you keep lag through them, very few are actually
11:05:34 at 1,000 fate for every use.
11:05:36 As I mentioned, Tampa does require all of the thousand
11:05:40 in all uses in all cases.
11:05:42 There is no provision in our code.
11:05:46 And I should highlight with the exception of one.
11:05:48 We did put in one exclusion from that, which is the
11:05:51 public golf course.
11:05:53 And that was just a couple years ago, where we put the
11:05:56 public golf course in, so there's actually a golf
11:05:59 course that's operated by governmental entity from
11:06:02 other uses.
11:06:04 That's just the highlight of those themes that we
11:06:07 I would say overall what we found is that we do it
11:06:10 quite differently than the rest of the state.
11:06:13 And that the requirements that we have, the
11:06:17 requirements that we have are more than what the rest
11:06:20 of the state has.
11:06:23 What it did highlight for us, staff reviewing it and
11:06:27 the legal department reviewing it, is that it's not we
11:06:31 are doing it wrong, not that we are doing it badly,
11:06:34 it's just that everything we do is hinged on a
11:06:36 1,000-foot distance separation and every request that
11:06:39 comes in comes to hearing, and then you have to start
11:06:41 evaluating, what is that 1,000 feet mean, especially if
11:06:45 it's consistently waived?
11:06:47 And looking at what the initial request was for this
11:06:49 workshop, and what council's poses are and having staff
11:06:53 tell you what they are, remind you what they are, are
11:06:56 our contention is that if there is a consistent policy
11:06:58 from council that we need to codify it and come up with
11:07:03 better criteria so that maybe in a certain neighborhood
11:07:05 or along a certain corridor, knowing that there's
11:07:08 residential immediately adjacent to it in all cases,
11:07:11 the 1,000 feet may not be the right requirement.
11:07:14 Maybe it should be more.
11:07:15 Maybe it should be less.
11:07:16 You don't necessarily have to treat the entire city the
11:07:20 You can carve out maybe in redevelopment areas, they
11:07:22 have a smaller distance separation requirement, where
11:07:25 they have a certain set of operation -- hours of
11:07:28 operation that are consistent in code, and they only
11:07:31 come to you if there's a waiver requested.
11:07:33 There's a lot of variables here.
11:07:35 You can have multiple layers of regulation.
11:07:40 If you do that, our contention is especially if you set
11:07:44 up very clear criteria for people to understand, that
11:07:46 there should be some level that would be approved
11:07:48 administratively, so that it doesn't just add more
11:07:51 regulation to people that ultimately have to come
11:07:53 before you for a hearing.
11:07:55 So really, this is at your discretion to understand
11:07:58 what it is the policy that you want to put forward, and
11:08:02 we'll review that, try to come up with the best
11:08:05 criteria, and then bring it back.
11:08:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
11:08:10 This is great to see all these comparisons.
11:08:15 And we do stand out, although I have to say going
11:08:18 through these, everybody is different.
11:08:20 And we are not Hillsborough County.
11:08:23 Because we are urban and denser.
11:08:26 So here is what I think would be the really interesting
11:08:33 research project that maybe one of our interns could
11:08:36 But it seems to me that our problem with wet zoning is
11:08:45 that we have had districts, concentrations where there
11:08:51 was too much going on and obviously we haven't
11:08:57 addressed that in a way that's -- it might be
11:09:01 interesting to see a city kind of right like-size city.
11:09:10 I don't know, but does St. Pete --
11:09:12 >>> St. Pete, they don't have an Ybor, they don't have
11:09:14 a SoHo.
11:09:16 >>MARY MULHERN: At least I don't hear about it.
11:09:18 >>> Let me respond to the first thing you said that
11:09:22 everybody is different.
11:09:23 I will say as far as the distance separation
11:09:25 requirements, and which uses may or may not be approved
11:09:30 in different fashion, there are differences.
11:09:33 What you should note, though, is the approval process,
11:09:36 the second --
11:09:37 >>MARY MULHERN: I noticed that.
11:09:39 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Every single one of them is
11:09:42 administratively approved or no preapproval process
11:09:45 unless you need a waiver.
11:09:46 Because what these jurisdiction versus done is looked
11:09:49 at their cities or their counties, and identified those
11:09:52 areas where certain things should be.
11:09:54 And the last page --
11:10:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Are there cities that have no waivers?
11:10:03 So that kind of is like the opposite approach to what
11:10:06 we do, is having restrictions, and waivers given out
11:10:13 liberally, where if we could have less waivers.
11:10:18 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I think ultimately that was my point
11:10:20 when I talked about the thousand foot criteria that we
11:10:22 have now, considering that's the only criteria we
11:10:25 really have, and everything comes to you.
11:10:27 And if you are consistently waiving the 1,000 feet,
11:10:29 what does that mean?
11:10:33 What value does Vermont anymore throughout the city?
11:10:35 >>MARY MULHERN: And I like what Hillsborough does with
11:10:39 the -- was it Hillsborough?
11:10:44 Not more than three within a thousand feet.
11:10:46 That's interesting to have -- that limits the
11:10:50 concentration, because I think we really -- we have --
11:10:55 we do have the major problem not overall in the city,
11:10:58 but in vert districts, and we see it even in my three
11:11:05 years here, I have seen it, the problem start, and not
11:11:13 start but really get bad on Howard, and then now we
11:11:18 hear a little about Channelside, and so it does morph.
11:11:23 >>CATHERINE COYLE: One other peace I would like to
11:11:25 highlight for your consideration in this is the end
11:11:30 When we are coming through, and there are five or six
11:11:33 applications throughout the year, and in one particular
11:11:37 district, and each one is assigned a particular
11:11:40 condition, the 1:00 close and the 2:00 closing and they
11:11:45 are in the same particular area, enforcement can become
11:11:48 quite difficult.
11:11:48 We only have so many people out there enforcing hours
11:11:52 of operation, especially at one or two in the morning.
11:11:55 So it's also something that council really should
11:11:58 consider is the end result of how -- what do these
11:12:01 conditions mean when you do set them and what is the
11:12:05 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, my initial thought, question,
11:12:07 and I'm throwing this out for anyone who wants to do
11:12:10 the research and maybe you could, you know, in the
11:12:13 research you have already done, you might have some
11:12:15 But a city that has the sort of same kind of problems,
11:12:19 and what kind of code changes would follow that, and, I
11:12:26 mean, I think we can come up with some of the ideas
11:12:30 But since it's hard to compare our city to these other
11:12:33 cities, because they may not have, you know, they don't
11:12:39 have the problem because their ordinance is better, and
11:12:45 their process is better and tighter, so I think what
11:12:50 would be great -- and I don't know if you are doing
11:12:52 this meeting with any neighborhood associations or if
11:12:54 we could have, you know, maybe a task force with
11:12:58 T.H.A.N. or and with Mr. Crumbly, to look at how we
11:13:03 could work on it, changing our code.
11:13:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
11:13:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think that when you do one of
11:13:22 these zonings, under the circumstances like you are in
11:13:29 transportation mode when you do that, they are talking
11:13:30 about the transit stops, and what they are not telling
11:13:32 you is that the six blocks around it, somebody is going
11:13:35 to have to do some rezoning if it doesn't meet the
11:13:38 criteria of what that stop is for.
11:13:40 So what happens there?
11:13:45 When you do something, I look very differently to
11:13:50 something that's a 2(COP), or a 4(COP), because that
11:13:55 stays forever.
11:13:56 It may be well intended.
11:13:58 More than likely it is well intended.
11:14:01 That somebody wants to open up something of that nature
11:14:05 in a restaurant, or whatever, and that's what they
11:14:11 But if that restaurant -- and I'm not after the
11:14:15 restaurant business.
11:14:15 Let me say that now so I don't get quoted or misquoted
11:14:20 again -- that if that business was not to succeed, that
11:14:27 doesn't mean that bars can't come in after that because
11:14:30 it's already zoned that.
11:14:33 We do things.
11:14:36 One quick commodity.
11:14:42 You are going to be nuts on both sides if you think and
11:14:45 believe that somebody is really opening up the door to
11:14:46 sell one drink a month.
11:14:49 They are not.
11:14:51 They just have a piece of paper that says that they
11:14:53 sold one drink a month.
11:15:00 So do I believe that?
11:15:02 More than likely, no.
11:15:04 But that's the law.
11:15:05 So maybe talk to the legal department, because if
11:15:12 something goes and ends -- and I understand it's much
11:15:16 more involved in the City Council.
11:15:18 That's a legislative matter, I believe.
11:15:20 But the right to continue that process.
11:15:26 But I am looking at the much bigger picture.
11:15:29 You can sigh three within a thousand feet.
11:15:31 That sounds great.
11:15:32 Three within a thousand feet.
11:15:33 What happens to the next thousand feet?
11:15:35 You have three more, I guess.
11:15:38 So then you have six.
11:15:45 That's the prerogative of somebody to go out and have a
11:15:48 drink with their dinner or whatever they want to do.
11:15:51 That's not for me to judge.
11:15:53 But everything has a way around it, or most things have
11:15:55 a way around it.
11:15:56 I'm not trying to make it impassable or make something
11:15:59 so difficult that no entity can survive.
11:16:02 But way want to look at is when you have an
11:16:05 establishment and really wants to come forward and do
11:16:10 business in the proper way and proper manner, and for
11:16:13 whatever reason, underfunding, bad business plan,
11:16:16 whatever, has to close the doors, then we, all of us,
11:16:23 neighbors, have to deal with the consequences.
11:16:25 The consequences are that it does not go away.
11:16:29 This council, future councils, have no right to change
11:16:35 that parameter of that certain element of ability to
11:16:40 sell alcohol.
11:16:43 So, therefore, that's the problem with the system.
11:16:48 You close it and you don't close.
11:16:51 You are out but you are not really out because you have
11:16:56 a register with a sale a month that you pay, and Ohio
11:17:02 do we do that?
11:17:03 How do we solve that problem?
11:17:06 >>CATHERINE COYLE: If I could offer a couple of things.
11:17:07 A couple of years ago we did change the criteria for
11:17:10 the resumption of sale, the evidence of resumption of
11:17:13 sales, probably three-plus years ago.
11:17:17 We had situations where clearly you went out to the
11:17:20 site and it was boarded up.
11:17:22 They were providing that one receipt saying that they
11:17:24 were selling, there was a chain link fence around the
11:17:27 That was under chapter 3.
11:17:29 Well, we moved it under chapter 27 under the current
11:17:33 We do have a laundry list of evidence of resumption of
11:17:37 sales. If we go out and post your site because it's
11:17:40 boarded up, clearly closed up and you want to show us
11:17:43 that you are still active, there are about nine items
11:17:46 You need to show us evidence that the water is on, that
11:17:48 the electricity is on, that you are paying your sales
11:17:51 tax, inventory receipts that you bought from a
11:17:54 distributer, show us your state license that you
11:17:56 actually can sell alcohol, to provide all of this to us
11:18:00 as well as photographs of the establishment, and we can
11:18:02 weigh that evidence and decide whether or not you have
11:18:05 So we have tried to answer that particular test.
11:18:09 But I also heard you say was a 2(COP) and 4(COP) and
11:18:13 how do to you they are different.
11:18:15 That's the kind of thing I am trying to hone in on, is
11:18:18 to council what is different.
11:18:21 If it's a 2(COP-R) in a certain neighborhood within the
11:18:24 city, is that something, I guess if they decide to
11:18:27 close at 1:00, that should be just allowed as a
11:18:30 neighborhood-serving use, in certain neighborhoods?
11:18:32 That's the kind of criteria that I am trying to
11:18:35 understand from council, understanding what your
11:18:38 consistent policies are.
11:18:40 I also want to offer an opinion just from doing this
11:18:42 for the last ten years, watching these alcohol permits
11:18:44 as they come forward.
11:18:46 Knowing that every single request in this city is a
11:18:50 public hearing, it's an expensive process, people are
11:18:53 going to do anything and everything they can to hold
11:18:55 onto it.
11:18:57 In other jurisdictions -- and I did alcohol long time
11:19:00 ago when I was in private practice -- it was much
11:19:04 There are certain cities where you just go get a state
11:19:07 sign-off as long as you are commercially zoned, and
11:19:09 people aren't so worried about keeping that permit or
11:19:11 that approval because the test isn't so high at the
11:19:15 If you are the restaurant going in, you just go get a
11:19:19 Whether that's good or not for Tampa is really up for
11:19:22 you to decide, but that's the kind of questions that we
11:19:25 have for you, and that we are hoping that you can
11:19:28 answer through whatever policies you want to set.
11:19:31 I think people hold onto them so desperately because
11:19:34 the test is so high to get it approved.
11:19:36 That's just an opinion.
11:19:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There is no doubt that it's
11:19:42 expensive to do this or any other thing in today's
11:19:45 But if I was to have, or an owner or individual wanted
11:19:50 to skirt the initiative that you created very well
11:19:53 intended and very well done, and I thank you for that,
11:19:57 you can videotape an individual opening that door, that
11:20:05 has fence around, come in, open that door that's
11:20:07 locked, go in, videotape a person selling one drink,
11:20:12 send seven cents to the department of tax with a stamp
11:20:18 that costs you 44 cents and mail it out, and you are
11:20:22 qualified under the established rules that we have as a
11:20:26 So what I am saying is, we don't know what's coming
11:20:30 There's an uncertainty that that place of business,
11:20:34 that was acceptable, and maybe even more than
11:20:41 acceptable in the neighborhood, now becomes a
11:20:43 possibility of being a thorn on the side, because the
11:20:46 ownership is different.
11:20:48 They are more progressive.
11:20:49 They think they have to go Ute out and do something
11:20:52 different than the prior owner didn't do the same
11:20:55 business, and I understand all of that, and therefore
11:20:58 creates this feeling of nervousness, if I may use that
11:21:03 word, in the neighborhood.
11:21:05 And those are the things that I am trying to solve.
11:21:08 I don't like anything being forever.
11:21:12 There's only two things for of and one is for sure.
11:21:14 And that's death.
11:21:17 The rest changes.
11:21:19 So that's my feeling, that why should something be
11:21:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is honestly one of the most
11:21:34 complex issues we tackle, because it's not giving
11:21:40 somebody the permit.
11:21:41 It's how their establishment works.
11:21:45 And some establishment, even a restaurant, could become
11:21:47 like the hot spot of the month, and it's a mob scene,
11:21:52 and the cars are parked all over the neighborhood, the
11:21:55 noise drives the neighbors crazy, and then two months
11:22:00 later it's not the fashionable place anymore and
11:22:02 everyone moves on and its quiet.
11:22:04 And the zoning remains the same.
11:22:07 So it's so difficult to legislate because of the
11:22:12 permission there, but it's still the ancillary traffic
11:22:14 and noise is what impacts the people living around it,
11:22:17 that drives them crazy or not.
11:22:19 I honestly don't know how to address this, but I know
11:22:23 that we have got a lot of citizens here who spent a
11:22:26 long time thinking about it.
11:22:28 And I would prefer to get their input maybe even
11:22:34 advance of us coming up with something because they
11:22:36 battled this for a long time, and they are smart, and I
11:22:39 would really like, if we change anything, I want their
11:22:43 input in the process of working on a new policy.
11:22:49 >>CATHERINE COYLE: If I could add to what Mrs.
11:22:51 Saul-Sena said.
11:22:51 When I say this is multiple layers, potential and
11:22:54 possible regulation, if you are talking about
11:22:56 restaurants particularly, we already have a it divided
11:22:59 in our code of large and small venue.
11:23:02 It's split over 300, over under 299; you could, if you
11:23:09 wanted to specifically call restaurants city-wide or
11:23:14 even by district, could you even say that restaurants
11:23:17 that are 75% -- person occupancy or 100 person
11:23:22 occupancy does X, this he close at this time in
11:23:26 There are so many different variables that you can
11:23:28 actually carve up.
11:23:29 Because the occupant load is directly correlated to the
11:23:32 amount of parking that's on the site.
11:23:34 If you have like 300 people could you potentially have
11:23:37 300 cars as the worst case scenario.
11:23:42 More likely it's going to be less, but you could have
11:23:45 that potential.
11:23:45 So when you are thinking about this is a good
11:23:47 conversation, because you are talking about specific
11:23:49 uses that you like in certain circumstances, figure out
11:23:53 what those circumstances are, and carve those out in
11:23:57 the regulation because then you are setting the policy
11:23:59 for what they are, how they operate, and then
11:24:01 ultimately where they can go in the city.
11:24:11 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to follow up on Mr. Miranda's
11:24:13 question because I am still not clear, maybe from Ms.
11:24:16 Is it -- right now, that special use permit for alcohol
11:24:21 that we give, that we approve, goes with the land.
11:24:30 Is that something -- does it have to be that way?
11:24:34 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
11:24:34 I believe that there are two separate issues to think
11:24:37 about when you are talking about whether or not we can
11:24:40 stop the special use permit or we can regulate the
11:24:42 individual businesses.
11:24:43 The first thing to think about is the alcoholic
11:24:45 beverage special use beverage permit is a special use
11:24:49 As you all know, that is a land use regulation.
11:24:51 What you are looking up there are, is that use in N
11:24:56 that particular place compatible with what you have
11:24:58 designated as a surrounding allowable uses?
11:25:01 And that is why that runs with the land.
11:25:04 It's not appropriate in a special use permit to either
11:25:07 approve, deny or condition the compatibility of that
11:25:11 particular use with the operator.
11:25:14 Just like it wouldn't be appropriate to condition some
11:25:16 of your other special uses like a drive-in to a
11:25:20 Walgreen's or a church, to a particular church.
11:25:22 The use runs with the land.
11:25:24 Now, once you begin talking with about the individual
11:25:27 operator or the individual business, you are not
11:25:29 talking about a land use condition, you are talking
11:25:31 about licensing that entity.
11:25:33 And that's the issue that I believe Mr. Miranda has
11:25:35 brought up before.
11:25:36 That is what is at this current time to the state.
11:25:41 I believe Mr --
11:25:45 >>MARY MULHERN: So are you telling me in your opinion
11:25:47 we have to keep it as a special use that goes with the
11:25:51 Or is there a way that we could do some kind of
11:25:54 additional -- I mean, that it is a land use special
11:25:58 permit, but at the same time some requirement that if
11:26:07 the -- I don't know.
11:26:09 Is that the only way we can do it in Florida?
11:26:11 Or is there another way to do alcohol permitting?
11:26:15 >>REBECCA KERT: Based upon the way it's set in
11:26:17 Florida, at the current time we are preempted from
11:26:22 licensing the individual operator.
11:26:23 Regardless of whether or not that was the case, I would
11:26:26 tell you that it's not legally appropriate to tie your
11:26:31 special use permit to a particular operator.
11:26:32 >>Are so we can't do that.
11:26:34 So what about -- and this might be a question for Ms.
11:26:37 Coyle -- what about the time period that you get the
11:26:43 special use permit for?
11:26:44 You know, what you were saying about how expensive and
11:26:47 difficult a process it is, if we made it a simpler
11:26:51 process, administratively, and really set what our
11:26:58 limits were and everything, but you would have to come
11:27:00 back every couple years or something, can we do that?
11:27:07 Without the cost of reviewing it?
11:27:14 >>CATHERINE COYLE: We do have some special use permits
11:27:15 that are given on an annual basis.
11:27:17 We do have annual vendors with a special permit.
11:27:20 Every year they have to come in and apply.
11:27:22 And be renewed.
11:27:25 The sidewalk cafe permit, council just changed that
11:27:29 specific requirement, so the alcoholic beverage permit,
11:27:32 special use permit that goes along with the sidewalk
11:27:34 cafe is done annually to run with the sidewalk cafe
11:27:38 permit from transportation.
11:27:40 It's an administrative approval, not like the
11:27:43 restaurant limit that we can grant administratively
11:27:45 because it's just an extension of an establishment.
11:27:51 >>MARY MULHERN: There wouldn't necessarily be a public
11:27:55 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Not for the sidewalk cafe.
11:27:56 It's just an extension of what's already there.
11:27:58 If they are a 2(COP) on the inside they are only
11:28:00 allowed to sell at the level they have on the inside of
11:28:03 the establishment.
11:28:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm wondering if Mr. Miranda, if you
11:28:08 think that that is something that mate solve or help
11:28:12 solve that problem.
11:28:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There's no one answer for this, if
11:28:16 I may answer, Mr. Chairman.
11:28:19 This takes more than one council.
11:28:21 It takes a bunch of legislators and takes a bunch of
11:28:25 things to change this.
11:28:28 This is not -- at the end of the day, no matter who
11:28:32 sits in these chairs, in these seven chairs, they are
11:28:36 the ones that are going to have to make the decision,
11:28:38 whether it meets the criteria for the benefit not only
11:28:43 of those persons that are applying for that alcohol
11:28:46 zoning, but does it meet the criteria for the
11:28:50 protection of wherever it's going?
11:28:56 And you can see that there are certain areas of the
11:28:58 city that have had a lot more of these applications to
11:29:06 the zonings than anywhere he is in the city.
11:29:09 And there's three areas that come to mind.
11:29:14 So what I'm saying is that whoever sits in these chairs
11:29:16 are the ones that are going to have to make that
11:29:19 Whether it meets or doesn't meet, whether it should or
11:29:22 should not go, because the laws, the way they are now,
11:29:27 there's very little else you can do but vote it up or
11:29:30 vote it down.
11:29:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, looking at what you have here
11:29:38 from my perspective in, my ten years at Hillsborough
11:29:40 County, and Ms. Kert was probably speaking to this as
11:29:45 well when we did this at Hillsborough County, and
11:29:49 talking about the city being more urban, you have got
11:29:51 to keep in mind the population of Hillsborough County
11:29:53 is two to one of that in Tampa and you have as much
11:29:56 urban in the county, when you look at Brandon, Lutz,
11:29:59 and some of those areas as well.
11:30:01 The issue comes down to legislative, how you want to
11:30:05 structure, what policy you want to put in place,
11:30:07 because right now you have everything that comes
11:30:11 through council.
11:30:12 And she's just outlining you in this presentation, we
11:30:17 are the only one that everything that comes to us.
11:30:21 So that raises a situation can't question.
11:30:25 And I will tell you when I first came over and you
11:30:28 raised that question, it was more or less political,
11:30:35 pretty much, we have always done it this way before,
11:30:38 or, well, this is the only thing we have to do, you
11:30:41 know, that sort of thing.
11:30:44 Well, you always tell people, we have always done it
11:30:47 that way, means you are probably living in the ancient
11:30:50 days and you are not, you know, have a broad
11:30:53 perspective as you look it at how you administer
11:30:59 certain things.
11:30:59 We have to keep in mind things change, and we are not
11:31:02 using phones like we used to.
11:31:06 Most of us have cell phones now, right?
11:31:10 I think so, cell phones.
11:31:11 Years ago, you didn't have laptop computers.
11:31:14 So you have to adjust for the time that you are in.
11:31:18 At the same time, you put in place policies that will
11:31:22 give the same amount of protection for your community,
11:31:24 for your neighborhood.
11:31:25 That can be done.
11:31:29 The same policies can be put in place that will protect
11:31:32 your neighborhoods and your areas without every
11:31:35 petition coming before City Council.
11:31:39 So to me, it's something that is inherently wrong when
11:31:42 everything comes to council.
11:31:45 And there's got to be some kind of middle ground that
11:31:50 we can look at moving forward.
11:31:57 Any other questions?
11:31:58 Any other comment?
11:32:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have all identified the problem.
11:32:07 We haven't come up with a suggested recommendation.
11:32:11 Are you looking to us for policy guidance?
11:32:13 Or could we look to you for working with the community
11:32:16 and coming back to us with some recommendations?
11:32:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My suggestion would be that Ms. Kert
11:32:23 and legal iron them out with the community and the
11:32:30 neighborhood and comes back to us.
11:32:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That sounds like a motion.
11:32:34 >>MARY MULHERN: That that's what I was saying earlier,
11:32:38 maybe we have a task force.
11:32:39 Otherwise, you would need to have your meetings with
11:32:43 the community before you come up with a recommendation,
11:32:45 I would think.
11:32:48 So maybe let's hear from the public.
11:32:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, hear from the public as well.
11:32:59 We'll take public testimony at this time.
11:33:04 >>> Walter Crumbley, 503 south westlawn Avenue, down
11:33:17 here especially on the issue that's now before you.
11:33:22 I have had some thoughts.
11:33:23 But before I get into that, let me tell you that
11:33:26 although my plate is kind of full with a lot of things,
11:33:29 I would be more than happy to serve on some sort of
11:33:32 task force to try and work something out where I don't
11:33:36 have to come down here every couple months and fight
11:33:40 the battle of the booze bottle, you know.
11:33:46 I drink just like everybody else, but certainly we need
11:33:49 some control.
11:33:55 If you are going to have these ordinances about
11:33:56 separation and all that, then follow them.
11:34:05 Every single times I come down here on one of these
11:34:09 alcohol licensing hearings, it's been, well, we'll give
11:34:14 them a waiver for distance, we'll give them a waiver
11:34:17 for this, we'll give them a waiver for that, and the
11:34:21 net result is, you know, why am I wasting my time to
11:34:25 come down here?
11:34:28 If you are going to let bars be in a residential
11:34:37 neighborhood, then I certainly think you need to
11:34:41 address the issue of the out side music, and sidewalk
11:34:44 bars, and all that kind of stuff.
11:34:49 If you can get them all crammed inside the building,
11:34:51 then at least the only time you have got to worry is
11:34:54 when some of them spill out and try to go home, and
11:34:56 they run through your neighborhood yelling and
11:34:58 screaming and throwing beer bottles everywhere.
11:35:01 So in close proximity to residential, nothing out side.
11:35:08 No music.
11:35:09 No chairs.
11:35:10 No nothing.
11:35:17 We examined the parking requirements.
11:35:21 In my experience of five or six years of watching
11:35:23 everybody go to their cars, there's only one or two
11:35:27 people per car, not four.
11:35:30 And the current requirement is, you have to have one
11:35:36 seat or one parking space for every four people when in
11:35:39 fact the number of people that in my humble experience
11:35:43 is certainly less than that, which adds huge parking
11:35:47 So you need to look at that part of it.
11:35:52 Lastly, I think the thing that would be more telling
11:35:55 and have a greater effect than anything else you can do
11:35:59 is to change the 51% rule.
11:36:03 Right now, everybody sends you a nice postcard every
11:36:07 year like they are supposed to, and I am reliably
11:36:13 informed that this is not the truth.
11:36:15 And my suggestion would be that if you are going to
11:36:18 have a (COP-R) license that you have to submit a
11:36:26 certified independently verifiable report at the
11:36:31 expense of the licensee once a year, that in fact you
11:36:37 are following the 51% rule.
11:36:40 (Bell sounds)
11:36:44 Basically that's it unless you have some questions or
11:36:47 But as I mentioned, I would be more than happy to work
11:36:49 with the city on this.
11:36:51 My wife will kill me for saying this.
11:36:54 But that's the way it is.
11:36:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
11:36:58 Next speaker.
11:37:02 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 south Sherill street.
11:37:06 Tampa homeowners, of course, has been knowing this is
11:37:09 coming up.
11:37:10 We have been watching it.
11:37:11 I do have a concern that Cathy told me the public
11:37:18 notice or public review of this will be coming up in
11:37:20 the middle of April on the 12th.
11:37:22 I don't think that's -- the time isn't right.
11:37:27 This needs a lot of input and study as to what will be
11:37:34 coming up with.
11:37:35 We can't do something in, what, a little over two weeks
11:37:38 and come up with the regulations, but we need to do
11:37:43 Council hears from neighborhoods because we know that
11:37:47 there are problems with wet zonings.
11:37:50 Other concerns that I have, because I'm very close to
11:37:53 it, I did not realize that the approval for wet zonings
11:37:57 in the malls is being thrown into is this, because,
11:38:07 T.H.A.N. and Beach Park and the areas surrounding the
11:38:09 malls, big malls, came up with an agreement regarding
11:38:13 wet zonings that, say, closed at midnight, and were the
11:38:22 Now I understand they are coming up with the review of
11:38:26 the chapter 27 reviews.
11:38:28 It's being thrown into this, too.
11:38:31 So the 12th of April is too soon, I think, for any
11:38:36 group to meet and come up with recommendations to give
11:38:41 to you.
11:38:42 Hearing what some of these jurisdictions allow, I just
11:38:45 can't imagine that we would have no separation from
11:38:51 That just is not fair.
11:38:53 We hear from those areas that are bombarded with these
11:38:58 bars that go on till all hours.
11:39:01 So I think it needs more study and to come up with
11:39:05 something in two weeks and then come back to you by the
11:39:08 end of April.
11:39:09 Thank you.
11:39:12 T.H.A.N. will be working with them.
11:39:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think on the 12th, do you want to
11:39:17 speak to that?
11:39:22 >>CATHERINE COYLE: You asked about when the text
11:39:23 amendments came forward.
11:39:24 I thought you meant the January cycle.
11:39:26 April 12th is the public information workshop for the
11:39:28 January cycle.
11:39:29 It is not -- there are no regulations.
11:39:32 It's just a workshop.
11:39:33 It's just talking.
11:39:37 >>MARGARET VIZZI: Okay.
11:39:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
11:39:39 >>> I wasn't here at nine.
11:39:48 I wasn't sworn.
11:39:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is a workshop.
11:39:50 >>> Thank you, sir.
11:39:52 My name is Ellen Snelling, the co-chair of the Tampa
11:39:55 alcohol coalition.
11:39:57 I have some points I definitely want to get involved in
11:39:59 the task force.
11:40:00 I think the biggest concern that we have with the
11:40:02 community is the large night clubs.
11:40:05 They seem to have the most law enforcement effort
11:40:07 that's needed, that cause the most problems as far as
11:40:10 noise and different things.
11:40:11 But I think it would be great to regulate that
11:40:13 particular venue.
11:40:15 But I would like to bring up two ordinances that many
11:40:17 other cities and counties around the state are looks at
11:40:19 right now to help mitigate some of these problems.
11:40:22 One is the age 21 to enter a bar.
11:40:25 I know it's been discussed before but I think we need
11:40:27 to look into it further.
11:40:28 Some are targeting mainly the large night clubs to be
11:40:31 21 and up.
11:40:32 But the other thing that I find really interesting that
11:40:35 I think could help with some of these problems that we
11:40:37 are talking about now is called a late-night permit.
11:40:40 I know of at least six cities and counties that have
11:40:45 And there's more.
11:40:45 We are doing research on it right now to kind of
11:40:47 catching on around the state.
11:40:48 But what happens is that any venue that wants to stay
11:40:51 open past midnight, you can stay on premises
11:40:58 establishments, but if they want to stay open past,
11:41:01 say, 11:00 or mid No night they have ton get a permit
11:41:04 and that permit puts conditions on them, and there is a
11:41:06 fee for it.
11:41:07 Some, there's a couple cities don't charge a fee but
11:41:10 some go as high as $2,000 and of course there's
11:41:12 everything in between.
11:41:13 But what kind of conditions they would put would be
11:41:16 about underage drinking, noise, security, and it has to
11:41:21 be renewed each year.
11:41:22 But it gives the city much more control over these
11:41:26 establishments, because as you know, the state licenses
11:41:29 them for the alcoholic liquor license.
11:41:32 But there's only so much they can do.
11:41:33 And if there's a problematic establishment, how often
11:41:36 do you see their liquor license revoked?
11:41:39 It rarely happens.
11:41:40 That's why the cities and counties need more control.
11:41:42 But when you go with the hours of sale, that is not
11:41:45 preempted by state law, and that's where some these
11:41:49 other cities have found that they can tie up the hours
11:41:52 of sale of staying open late and how many times do we
11:41:55 hear the problems of a restaurant that closed at 10:00?
11:41:57 They don't really interfere with the neighborhood.
11:41:59 It's the ones that stay open 1, 2, 3 in the morning.
11:42:04 So that's a suggestion to look at those types of
11:42:07 But I really appreciate you taking a look at this, and
11:42:09 the Tampa alcohol coalition would be like to be
11:42:12 involved in any kind of a task force.
11:42:14 Thank you.
11:42:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
11:42:18 >>STEVE MICHELINI: There's a couple of things, that I
11:42:21 think first need to be clarified.
11:42:23 On the 51-49 in terms of enforcement, the state
11:42:26 enforces that.
11:42:29 The card being sent to the city is a certification.
11:42:31 But the state audits the 51-49 reports.
11:42:35 And you have to have a notarized report that's sent in,
11:42:39 and that's included with your sales tax information.
11:42:41 So it's not just normal and ordinary.
11:42:45 There also is a stipulation that you have to be open
11:42:47 250 days out of the year.
11:42:49 So this one-day-a-month kind of thing also is being
11:42:54 enforced by the state.
11:42:56 I think the council should probably look at new
11:42:59 developments versus the established facilities.
11:43:03 In terms of parking and a variety of other things.
11:43:06 If you are going into a predeveloped area, you have
11:43:10 whatever is there.
11:43:12 Without buying additional property that's adjacent to
11:43:15 it, which means encroachment in the neighborhood, you
11:43:20 simply can't improve the parking situation.
11:43:22 One of the concepts thatch we came up with before was
11:43:24 for the SoHo district was shared parking, because you
11:43:27 have offices, and you have other facilities that are
11:43:30 closed in the daytime, and closed at night, and then
11:43:32 the restaurants could using them.
11:43:34 That has yet to be institutionalized.
11:43:38 You can do that, but you have to file a -- you have to
11:43:44 follow a process to get that approved.
11:43:46 So you might want to look at that as well.
11:43:49 And in terms of processing fees, I think that we have
11:43:51 told you before that just to get an application to come
11:43:55 to the -- to come to the podium, it takes about $6,000.
11:44:00 In terms of your application fee, your survey that's
11:44:04 required, your site plan that's required, your mailing
11:44:06 list that's required, before an individual comes up and
11:44:09 asks for anything.
11:44:12 So you might want to think about the focus here.
11:44:14 I mean, everybody is talking about cranking down on the
11:44:17 establishments and making it harder and making it more
11:44:20 It's difficult enough to get here.
11:44:22 And as someone else said, I think Cathy said, once you
11:44:26 get it, you don't want to lose it because you have gone
11:44:28 through two public hearings which you paid for, plus
11:44:32 all of these processing fees, and most small businesses
11:44:35 can't afford to do this.
11:44:37 So if you think about separating the venues for small
11:44:41 versus large, things that can be done administratively,
11:44:43 things that are beer and wine for restaurants that are
11:44:46 neighborhood-serving restaurants, and they can prove
11:44:48 it, they are not staying up late -- open late, they are
11:44:52 not a height nightclub.
11:44:53 You have a difference of people talking about lounges
11:44:56 and bars and people talking about restaurants.
11:44:57 It's very difficult for a restaurant to survive on food
11:45:02 alone and beer and wine sales make the difference.
11:45:05 I come up here and tell you that, the owners tell you
11:45:08 I need to have it to make it feasible.
11:45:10 Otherwise they are going to go down the street and buy
11:45:12 from somebody else.
11:45:13 The same thing applies for package stores.
11:45:15 When you are on one corner, you have a shell station
11:45:19 selling beer and wine to go.
11:45:20 And the BP station comes in and asks for beer and wine
11:45:24 and says, you can't make it.
11:45:25 You are not going to buy gas from me.
11:45:28 So a fair and equitable solution is maybe to look at
11:45:31 some of these things being done administratively, that
11:45:34 are not neighborhood impacting issues.
11:45:39 And everything that comes to you shouldn't cost $6,000.
11:45:42 Thank you.
11:45:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, as I said earlier, there's got to
11:45:46 be a way to work this.
11:45:49 And legal and staff to come up with some
11:45:58 I think the best way to do go is allow them to have
11:46:07 Going in with nothing not our best plan of approach.
11:46:14 >>CATHERINE COYLE: If I could offer, we have a public
11:46:15 information workshop process.
11:46:17 As Ms. Vizzi mentioned we were going to have one on
11:46:20 April 12th for the January cycle.
11:46:22 I will hold them from time to time and invite everybody
11:46:25 from the neighborhood as well as the local attorneys
11:46:27 and planners, made a list of everyone, and I would like
11:46:31 them to come to this room in the evening to talk about
11:46:33 whatever text amendment or process that's coming
11:46:36 forward to have that conversation so they are all in
11:46:38 the room together.
11:46:39 The only issue that I would have of the task force is
11:46:42 the limited staff time that we have to man something
11:46:44 like that, or to woman it or person it, and also that
11:46:49 it becomes a sunshine issue because the task force,
11:46:54 they are a sunshine task force.
11:46:55 They have to be in the sunshine keeping minutes,
11:46:58 publishing, the whole nine yards.
11:46:59 It can be very cumbersome.
11:47:01 >> So you are recommending your information --
11:47:06 >> Public information workshops.
11:47:08 We'll have a series of those where we can talk about
11:47:10 the issues.
11:47:10 I do agree that coming forward with something first, at
11:47:13 least have an itemized list of the issues.
11:47:16 I made some notes from the people that did speak.
11:47:19 Late hours, when there's on-site consumption.
11:47:22 >> We understand what they are.
11:47:24 >> I was going to recite them.
11:47:27 >> We have a motion --
11:47:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: For you to come back to us maybe in
11:47:31 60 days.
11:47:32 Would you have time within 60 days?
11:47:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 60, 90.
11:47:41 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Let's do the middle of June.
11:47:42 90 days.
11:47:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And a series of public workshops with
11:47:46 the neighborhood and communities.
11:47:51 >>CATHERINE COYLE: We will have probably at least two.
11:47:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion made by Councilwoman
11:47:54 Saul-Sena is that Ms. Coyle can have -- I'm sorry.
11:48:06 Cathy Coyle to have a number of public information
11:48:08 workshops with the community, with neighborhoods, and
11:48:11 then bring back to council recommendations from the
11:48:16 On the businesses of alcoholic beverage in that
11:48:21 That was seconded by councilman Miranda.
11:48:24 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:48:27 Now, in that motion include also, Ms. Rebecca Kert, so
11:48:32 you have a lot of experience with this.
11:48:34 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Can I cite the five things I heard
11:48:40 to make sure to get additional guidance?
11:48:42 It's really quick actually.
11:48:44 Do it later?
11:48:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You can start with those five
11:48:49 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Okay.
11:48:49 Thank you.
11:48:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:48:52 Any other questions from council?
11:48:54 Any other comments?
11:48:55 New business?
11:48:56 New business?
11:48:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:49:01 The environmental protection fertilizer rule is going
11:49:03 to come to the county in May, and I thought we should
11:49:07 develop an opinion and share it with them in April.
11:49:10 So I would like everybody to look at this.
11:49:14 I serve on the estuary board.
11:49:15 We developed this rule.
11:49:17 Everybody greed on it.
11:49:18 But now my motion would be to put this on our agenda in
11:49:23 April under staff reports, for us to consider, to ask
11:49:30 legal to draft the resolution, and then bring it up
11:49:32 under staff reports so our staff will be here to
11:49:35 explain to us further what's going on.
11:49:37 But we would then be asking the county to do what the
11:49:43 estuary board has done and what Pinellas County has
11:49:46 That would be my --
11:49:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: When in April?
11:49:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: April 15th under staff reports,
11:49:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
11:49:58 All in favor?
11:49:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is the second annual, and I
11:50:02 want to bring it up for the public to please attend.
11:50:06 Stephanie Busansky's second annual -- that means that
11:50:12 the individual's that are -- that have special needs
11:50:17 will beat the -- all the money raised in this event,
11:50:22 this Saturday, between 10:00 and 2:00, at freedom
11:50:26 playground, that's right there at the park, will be
11:50:30 going to help the enhancement of this foundation for
11:50:34 the park.
11:50:35 And it's paramount that it's attended well, and that
11:50:43 everyone has the abilities to meet the requirements for
11:50:47 the continuation of this wonderful park called freedom
11:50:51 I believe last year Ms. Mulhern brought this up, and
11:50:57 this Saturday, from 10:00 to 2:00.
11:51:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
11:51:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Was that a motion?
11:51:07 Moved and seconded.
11:51:08 All in favor say Aye.
11:51:11 That we support it.
11:51:12 Any other new business?
11:51:14 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
11:51:15 I have to apologize for not being able to come back
11:51:18 last week after lunch for the meeting, not so much that
11:51:23 I couldn't come back, but that early in the meeting I
11:51:26 had assured the constituents of Gandy, South Tampa
11:51:32 area, that I would be presenting, asking for a letter
11:51:39 or resolution, and since I didn't come back, you know,
11:51:44 I read the action agenda, and Chairman Scott asked for
11:51:47 a letter.
11:51:51 And it's really because I wasn't here to be able to
11:51:53 express what I had told the constituents would be in my
11:51:57 motion, after hearing from them, both by e-mail and by
11:52:02 telephone and also at the meeting which you were
11:52:04 unfortunately weren't here for, to hear from them.
11:52:07 So I would like to ask council to reconsider the motion
11:52:14 that you passed last week and allow me to word the
11:52:22 motion that I felt needed to be made.
11:52:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why don't you bring it back tonight
11:52:29 >>MARY MULHERN: I could bring back tonight or now.
11:52:31 But I need to ask.
11:52:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My understanding, I thought Mrs.
11:52:40 Saul-Sena read the motion that you wanted.
11:52:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I thought I did it but if I didn't
11:52:44 cap the you are the spirit of it --
11:52:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, way read in the consent agenda
11:52:49 didn't reflect what I had -- I think I said it on in
11:52:56 the morning way wanted on there.
11:52:58 You made the motion?
11:52:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I did, but I didn't read the
11:53:01 consent agenda.
11:53:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The action agenda?
11:53:07 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry, the action agenda said that
11:53:10 it didn't include the information and the communication
11:53:24 from the neighborhood associations.
11:53:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What did you want included?
11:53:28 >>MARY MULHERN: This is the motion that I would like a
11:53:32 letter from council.
11:53:35 Or we can ask for a resolution if we need to.
11:53:38 But I think if you haven't sent out the letter yet --
11:53:40 has the letter gone out?
11:53:42 I would like you to consider the substitute wording.
11:53:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do you have it printed out for us?
11:53:51 >>MARY MULHERN: No, I don't, but I can read it to you
11:53:53 right now.
11:53:54 And, you know, maybe in the form of a resolution
11:53:59 expressing -- now I can't read my writing.
11:54:08 I'm sorry.
11:54:08 I can bring it back.
11:54:09 But basically what I want the resolution or the letter
11:54:12 to say was expressing the opposition to the Gandy
11:54:19 overpass that we have heard from the constituents
11:54:24 including --
11:54:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can you bring it back?
11:54:31 >> Let me just say this.
11:54:34 We need full council.
11:54:36 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll bring it back tonight.
11:54:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then full council can debate.
11:54:41 The council is the place for that.
11:54:42 So that has to be rescinded, I guess.
11:54:44 >>MARY MULHERN: We have to reconsider it.
11:54:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Because John weighed in on it.
11:54:49 >>MARY MULHERN: He's the one that changed the word ago
11:54:53 round then.
11:54:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: , no I don't think he changed the
11:54:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Just give us what you would like to
11:54:59 >>MARY MULHERN: All right.
11:55:00 I'll have it in writing for the meeting tonight.
11:55:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to receive and file be?
11:55:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
11:55:04 >> Second.
11:55:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor say Aye.
11:55:08 Anyone else wishing to address council?
11:55:10 Seeing none we stand in recess till 6:00.
11:55:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have a 1:30 special discussion
11:55:15 on the sidewalk and driveways.
11:55:18 (the meeting recessed at 11:55 a.m.)
The preceding represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied upon
for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.