TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, February 24, 2011
9:00 a.m. workshop session
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08:56:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Good morning.
09:03:06 We will call the City Council meeting to order and
09:03:08 yield now to councilman Miranda.
09:03:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It's my pleasure this morning to
09:03:12 present the individual doing the invocation this
09:03:15 morning, Mr. Jim Crews from the city clerk's office.
09:03:18 Jim is an outstanding employee of the City of Tampa,
09:03:21 one that we are all proud of, and he is an individual
09:03:24 that I really enjoy when he works here every day, the
09:03:28 way he commands himself, and the mannerisms in which he
09:03:31 handles his business.
09:03:36 Jim is going to do the invocation.
09:03:38 Please rise for the invocation and remain standing for
09:03:40 the pledge of allegiance.
09:03:41 >> Good morning.
09:03:46 Before we pray, I just want to say thank you to all of
09:03:48 the council members that have served, and many of you
09:03:53 will be replaced by the election and moving onto other
09:03:55 things, and you want to say publicly that we appreciate
09:03:58 your service.
09:04:01 Some of you have served multiple terms.
09:04:03 You are glut tons for punish.
09:04:06 And you are will to do the hard things, make the hard
09:04:09 decisions that we don't want to.
09:04:10 So God bless you in your future endeavors.
09:04:14 Let us pray.
09:04:16 Father, we thank you for this day that you have given
09:04:18 to us.
09:04:19 We thank you for your mercies that are new every
09:04:22 We pray your blessings upon these your servant and
09:04:25 those who will follow them.
09:04:27 That you will grant them your wisdom in all the matters
09:04:29 that they must decide.
09:04:30 Grant them prosperity and favor.
09:04:35 Continue to bless them and their families.
09:04:37 And guide them and direct them, we pray, in Jesus name,
09:04:41 for its ultimately you that they serve, for it is from
09:04:44 you and through you and to you that all things are in
09:04:48 you that we live and move and have our being.
09:04:51 Father, we pray especially this morning for those that
09:04:53 serve in law enforcement.
09:04:55 We pray for the family of officer Crawford in
09:04:58 St. Petersburg.
09:04:59 As we grieve his loss.
09:05:00 We pray for all of those that serve to protect us that
09:05:04 you would be with them, that you would grant them your
09:05:07 In Jesus name we thank you.
09:05:08 And all that are here this morning, we pray for your
09:05:11 mercy and your grace, for your feeling for those that
09:05:14 are sick, your protection, your provision for those
09:05:16 that are in need, and may we all, in all things, honor
09:05:20 you this day and each day, in the name of Jesus we pray
09:05:26 whom I call Lord.
09:05:27 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:05:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Roll call.
09:05:54 (roll call)
09:05:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The chair will yield now to the hops
09:06:01 rabble Gwen Miller.
09:06:18 No Mulhern).
09:06:20 >>GWEN MILLER: We are very happy to recognize Mary
09:06:37 I am going to tell you why officer O'Connor is Officer
09:06:39 of the Month.
09:06:40 >> Chief Castor: It's our pleasure to bring sergeant
09:06:46 Mary O'Connor.
09:06:47 As you are aware, when we reorganized the police
09:06:50 department, approximately eight years ago, we
09:06:52 decentralized all of our resources.
09:06:55 So, in essence, each of our district is its own police
09:06:58 station serving that unique geographic area.
09:07:01 And there are two individuals who are looked upon in
09:07:04 those district as having 24 hour a day, seven-day a
09:07:09 week responsibility for the entire district.
09:07:12 And that's a district major commander and the detective
09:07:17 And Mary O'Connor has been the detective sergeant in
09:07:19 district 2 for four years now, and has just done an
09:07:23 amazing job.
09:07:25 In essence, defining what it means to be the DOIS
09:07:30 sergeant out in that area.
09:07:32 She just works tirelessly.
09:07:33 Her dies are endless.
09:07:35 When I was the major out in district 2, I calculated
09:07:40 how much they worked and their success by the number of
09:07:43 pizza parties they had, and those were the types of
09:07:46 investigations that began in the early morning hours
09:07:49 and took them all the way through the night.
09:07:52 And sergeant O'Connor would order pizzas, make sure
09:07:56 that everybody was well fed, and ensure that they
09:07:59 didn't take their eyes off the ball, and worked until
09:08:02 the case was solved, and the bad twice were in jail.
09:08:05 She has just done an amazing job out there and made
09:08:09 district 2 a much safer place for the resident who live
09:08:12 She has a unique eye for talent, and has recruited a
09:08:17 number of officers and made them detectives and
09:08:21 mentored them into fine investigators.
09:08:24 And a number of the detectives that have worked for her
09:08:27 have been brought before you as Officer of the Month as
09:08:30 So she has just done a great job.
09:08:32 She leads by example.
09:08:34 She's there with her officers every minute.
09:08:36 She doesn't two home until they go home.
09:08:38 She doesn't go home until the job is done.
09:08:41 We also have our monthly meetings which are constant or
09:08:46 crime meetings, and Mary has set the bar in those for
09:08:49 the detective sergeants sergeant.
09:08:51 She has the answers to the tough questions of the crime
09:08:54 that's going on in her area and who is perpetrating
09:08:56 that crime.
09:08:58 She just has done an amazing job during her four years,
09:09:01 every single day.
09:09:03 Starting in January, she changed positions, and now she
09:09:06 is a sergeant of one of our rapid offender control, or
09:09:09 ROC squads, so we expect to see innovative and creative
09:09:14 ideas coming forth from her for that position as well.
09:09:19 Couldn't say enough things about the great job that
09:09:22 Mary O'Connor does.
09:09:23 Her husband Keith O'Connor is a lieutenant at the
09:09:27 And as you can see behind me we have two future TPD
09:09:29 officers in the making.
09:09:31 But they certainly are an asset to the Tampa Police
09:09:34 Department, and it is my distinct honor to bring Mary
09:09:37 O'Connor before you today as the Officer of the Month.
09:09:41 [ Applause ]
09:09:49 >> I would like to present you this commendation for
09:09:52 all the great things you have done.
09:09:54 And now we have some gifts for you from the private
09:09:57 If you will come over and receive them.
09:10:00 >> Tampa police benevolent association.
09:10:05 Congratulations, sergeant.
09:10:06 We are proud of you.
09:10:10 A Visa gift card.
09:10:14 >> Danny Lewis from Bill Currie Ford.
09:10:17 After hearing your citation you are a very busy woman.
09:10:21 We would like to give you this watch to keep you on
09:10:23 >> Joe Durkin, Bright House networks.
09:10:30 Sergeant, congratulations on your selection.
09:10:33 On behalf of Bright House networks, we would like to
09:10:36 offer you one month free of video and high speed
09:10:39 service from Bright House networks.
09:10:42 >> Congratulations.
09:10:48 Steve Stickley representing Stepp's towing service, Jim
09:10:51 and Judy Stepp.
09:10:52 On behalf of Stepps towing we would like to present
09:10:56 with you a statue for a job well done, hope you have a
09:10:59 nice place to mount that.
09:11:00 We also have a gift card to Lee Roy Selmon.
09:11:03 >> Thank you very much.
09:11:08 >> On behalf of Straz center and the community here in
09:11:15 downtown Tampa, we would like to have you oh have been
09:11:19 this ticket to west side story which opens next week.
09:11:22 If there are any problems with the dates or times give
09:11:25 us a call.
09:11:25 We thank you so much for your service.
09:11:27 God bless you and keep you safe.
09:11:28 >> Thank you very much.
09:11:32 [ Applause ]
09:11:35 >> Representing Tampa's Lowry Park Zoo.
09:11:37 Thank you for everything you do for us.
09:11:40 We would like to invite you and your familiar reply to
09:11:43 come spend the day at the zoo on us and see our new
09:11:46 dinosaurs at the zoo.
09:11:47 >> Thank you very much.
09:11:49 >> There's only one problem here.
09:11:58 She's standing behind the podium.
09:12:10 You did great.
09:12:11 I wasn't criticizing you.
09:12:13 You should have fun, occasionally.
09:12:17 Steve Michelini here on behalf of Bern's steakhouse and
09:12:20 Bryn Allen studios.
09:12:21 And we are going to give you a gift certificate to come
09:12:24 enjoy dinner at Bern's, and have your family portraits
09:12:27 taken at Bryn Allen.
09:12:29 >> Thank you very much.
09:12:30 I appreciate it.
09:12:38 Thank you, council.
09:12:39 I would like to say that I wouldn't be here today if I
09:12:41 didn't have a very supportive team behind me.
09:12:45 You can't be a good supervisor without having a great
09:12:49 team of people behind you and I'm proud to say that I
09:12:51 have worked with a wonderful team for the last four
09:12:54 years, and pretty much my whole career.
09:12:56 But specifically I want to thank my supportive family,
09:13:00 my husband Keith, my children Natalie and -- my parents
09:13:04 and Chief Castor has done so much for my career.
09:13:07 Chief Bennett and major Newman has been my immediate
09:13:11 supervisor for four years and they have all contributed
09:13:13 greatly to my success and I'm very honored to be here
09:13:17 with you today, and I'm very honored to be a part of
09:13:19 this great organization.
09:13:21 Thank you very much for everything.
09:13:23 [ Applause ]
09:13:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you and congratulations.
09:13:48 Okay, we will move towards the first workshop.
09:13:52 Move to the first workshop that I have scheduled at
09:14:06 The first workshop.
09:14:08 The alcoholic beverages.
09:14:09 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
09:14:14 I believe that staff may be running a few minutes late
09:14:16 on this item, if could you start with the second one.
09:14:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:14:25 Mr. Huey, is he here?
09:14:28 Mark Huey?
09:14:30 The second one then is the small business revolving
09:14:33 loan fund.
09:14:39 All right, everybody is --
09:14:45 Let me raise a question.
09:14:56 It says 9:30.
09:14:58 Is it okay to start before that?
09:15:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.
09:15:02 There's no official action, no public hearing.
09:15:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Huey?
09:15:08 >>MARK HUEY: Mark Huey, economic development
09:15:11 The workshop that we are about to embark on is the
09:15:18 result of a brief discussion initiated by councilman
09:15:21 Stokes in October about the idea of establishing a
09:15:27 revolving loan fund to help small businesses that are
09:15:31 struggling to find loans in the private marketplace.
09:15:34 And so the purpose of the workshop, as I understand,
09:15:38 was to give opportunity to council to discuss the idea
09:15:43 in a little more depth.
09:15:45 We have only got 30 minutes, as I understand it today,
09:15:47 to do that.
09:15:48 Not a lot of time.
09:15:50 It is a very significant subject.
09:15:52 But what I have done is I have got a few comments that
09:15:56 I will make about the topic.
09:15:58 Then there are some folks we brought who are part of
09:16:01 our audience today that are going to be here to provide
09:16:06 a resource for council to talk about the issue and
09:16:09 about this idea specifically.
09:16:12 And one of those gentlemen, E.J. McCarter, is going
09:16:19 to come up after I make a few comments.
09:16:21 E.J. is the president of Tampa Bay economic Development
09:16:24 Corporation, and they have been working in this field
09:16:27 of trying to help small businesses access loans for
09:16:36 quite some time, and Pell provide some insight on why
09:16:39 the public sector might wish to get involved.
09:16:42 But before E.J. comes up I want to provide a few
09:16:46 cut-to-the-chase bottom line comments for council on
09:16:50 the matter.
09:16:51 First it's a very doable idea.
09:16:54 The federal government, state, local government, has
09:16:57 been working for decades in this arena and has been
09:17:00 doing things like revolving loan funds to help small
09:17:03 businesses access capital.
09:17:06 There are many different models, many different ways,
09:17:10 that again federal, state and local government versus
09:17:12 worked in this area.
09:17:13 There's quite a bit of national research to help a
09:17:16 community shape a program.
09:17:22 So, again, this is an idea that's done in many places,
09:17:25 and as the economy has gotten more challenging, and as
09:17:28 small businesses have found access to capital more
09:17:31 challenging, local communities in the past couple of
09:17:34 years have ramped up their interest in looking at some
09:17:37 of these programs.
09:17:39 In fact, you should know that the City of Tampa
09:17:41 actually did this back in the mid 90s.
09:17:44 So even in our own city, we have a history of doing a
09:17:48 small business revolving loan program.
09:17:52 The second point I will make is in his brief comments
09:17:55 about the I de, councilman Stokes suggested the best
09:17:59 way to approach such a program would be to bring
09:18:02 together a group of industry experts, bankers,
09:18:07 intermediaries and others who could help shape such a
09:18:10 program to target a specific need and provide the
09:18:14 appropriate kind of accountability over the program.
09:18:17 And that is exactly the right approach to take, if the
09:18:22 city were to pursue such a program.
09:18:24 It's really to collaborate with the private sector.
09:18:29 The third and last point that I will make before E.J.
09:18:33 comes up is that our ability as a City of Tampa to
09:18:38 implement that kind of a program is really constrained
09:18:40 just by two limitations.
09:18:43 One is that the council and the administration, and in
09:18:48 particular the new administration and council that will
09:18:52 come in after the recent election, would establish
09:18:57 there's an economic development priority, would say
09:19:00 that this investing in this type of a program should be
09:19:05 a priority for the city.
09:19:07 And then secondly, of course, with that kind of
09:19:09 commitment, committing resources, public funds to
09:19:13 establish such a program in whatever shape it would
09:19:17 So it's a doable idea.
09:19:19 If you are going to do it, you collaborate with the
09:19:21 private sector.
09:19:24 And all it takes is the commitment to do it and a
09:19:27 funding source to do that.
09:19:32 Having made these summary comments, I'm going to invite
09:19:37 E.J. up, again, to provide you as an industry expert, a
09:19:41 little bit of background on the struggles that many
09:19:43 small businesses are going through, and his views about
09:19:48 how the public sector and why it might get involved.
09:19:54 We are glad you're here.
09:19:55 >> I'm the president of TEDCO, Tampa Bay economic
09:20:07 Development Corporation.
09:20:08 I was a 25 year banker, and I can speak to what banks
09:20:14 do in times like this and what municipalities do in
09:20:17 times like this.
09:20:18 I'm joined by some of my other colleagues bag here who
09:20:21 represent some of the economic development
09:20:23 organizations within Tampa.
09:20:24 We met last week to come up with a bunch of ideas.
09:20:27 We have nothing concrete to put before you, but I want
09:20:31 to touch a little bit on the national economy as it
09:20:33 exists today and then bring it back home to Tampa.
09:20:36 Well, the federal economists, about 18 to 24 months
09:20:39 ago, declared that the recession was over, and if you
09:20:42 look at the technical definition of a recession, it's
09:20:45 two quarters of a continuous downturn.
09:20:47 There's a second definition, and this is a long-term
09:20:50 And I think we will all agree sitting here that it been
09:20:53 a long-term downturn.
09:20:56 Even though they don't like to talk about the DVD word,
09:21:00 which is depression, that's a six-quarter downturn and
09:21:02 I think we are well past that at this point.
09:21:04 So what happens when we go into an economic downturn?
09:21:08 Financial institutions big and small pull back from the
09:21:11 market, they identify the risks hopefully in time to
09:21:14 protect the liquidity reserves, and even in times when
09:21:18 the economy doesn't downturn, financial institutions
09:21:22 will draw away from certain sectors that they might
09:21:25 feel could be unfavorable going forward.
09:21:28 But this recession was much different.
09:21:30 This recession did not have any one sector, any one
09:21:34 geographic, any one social economic area that it picked
09:21:40 It was a broad-based recession.
09:21:42 And with that, as you read the paper and as we all
09:21:45 know, there's going to be certain parts of the country
09:21:47 that two decades from now will not come back from this.
09:21:50 Fortunately, I believe firmly that we are not in that
09:21:55 Tampa can come back because of the resources we have
09:21:57 here in the community.
09:21:59 So from a general standpoint, where does that lead us?
09:22:05 I think you will agree that having been a banker in
09:22:09 this community for 25 years and run TEDCO and been on
09:22:13 the board for the last 14 years, Tampa is composed of a
09:22:17 lot of small businesses, and these are the businesses
09:22:19 where people bid mortgages, higher people, the
09:22:23 supply-demand curve.
09:22:25 We have very few large businesses here.
09:22:27 And for simplicity sake, I want to break those three
09:22:31 small businesses down to three categories that I want
09:22:34 to talk about for the next five minute.
09:22:36 In the and the first was the small businesses that try
09:22:39 to engage just before the downturn.
09:22:42 And I am going to coin a phrase from the lightning, all
09:22:46 in, because as some of you know, some of you own small
09:22:49 Small business people tend to gone all in.
09:22:52 They bring their capital to the table when they start
09:22:54 their small business.
09:22:55 And when an economy like this hits our area, they
09:22:57 become ill liquid.
09:23:00 They probably borrowed against their houses and now
09:23:04 they have a foreclosure and they have to lay those
09:23:06 people off.
09:23:06 And the second category that I want to talk about is
09:23:09 the businesses that you and I have enjoyed over the
09:23:13 Some of them have gone wayside in the recent recession.
09:23:18 We have seen some of the places that we patronize on a
09:23:20 daily basis are no longer a round and the ones that are
09:23:24 simply hanging on by their thumb nails.
09:23:27 Now, there's a couple programs that are within the
09:23:31 They are small programs.
09:23:32 So when somebody comes to you, a business, and we do
09:23:36 due diligence and we underwrite the business and they
09:23:38 are asking for 25,000 and the maximum we can give them
09:23:40 is 10,000, we are really fueling the fire.
09:23:44 We are not providing them enough capital to either, A,
09:23:49 make payroll, B, go out and get more inventory, or hire
09:23:53 more people.
09:23:54 The third is the intellectual capital, generally the
09:23:57 larger businesses.
09:23:58 They could be, for instance, even the law firms in
09:24:01 Tampa, and some of our law firms be are large law firms
09:24:04 that had dramatic cutbacks.
09:24:06 So what happens to this intellectual capital?
09:24:08 Some of the intellectual capital leaves our area, never
09:24:11 to return again.
09:24:13 Because they don't have the capital.
09:24:15 They don't have the resources.
09:24:17 They don't have the ability to innovate and create the
09:24:21 entrepreneurial spirit that they need to.
09:24:26 Now, having been here quite awhile will tell you that
09:24:29 as a very young banker at First Florida we were
09:24:31 approached by two gentlemen, and this is a classic
09:24:34 example of why a practice E program of this nature
09:24:37 should exist.
09:24:38 We are approached by two gentlemen that had a concept,
09:24:41 they had an idea they worked in this business and they
09:24:43 formed this intellectual capital base.
09:24:46 And those two people were Bashman and Sullivan and they
09:24:52 started this enterprise with only a small amount of
09:24:55 seed money and it became outbake steakhouse, a
09:24:58 worldwide corporation now based in Tampa that employs
09:25:02 many people in Tampa and around the country.
09:25:04 That is the spirit that we need to foster with a
09:25:06 program of this nature.
09:25:08 Now, I will admit to you, I have seen some of the
09:25:10 programs in the past, and some of them have not been
09:25:14 effective, and some of them may have been structured
09:25:17 improperly or not executed correctly, but we are in
09:25:21 front of you today saying that if we can put this
09:25:23 together, we can create something great for the City of
09:25:27 And I will close with this.
09:25:29 This weekend, we have one of the biggest events in
09:25:31 Tampa called the Gasparilla race.
09:25:34 And people from all over the country come to Tampa to
09:25:37 enjoy the race course, the weather, because they
09:25:41 figured out one thing.
09:25:42 Tampa really knows how to do this.
09:25:43 They know how to put on one of the best races in the
09:25:47 And I have got friends coming in this weekend from
09:25:49 Chicago and New York because they love to come to
09:25:53 So I say to you, what would it be like if other cities
09:25:59 or other economic Development Corporations in other
09:26:03 cities said to themselves, I want to go to Tampa,
09:26:06 because these men and women have figured out a way to
09:26:09 put together a program to stimulate innovation, to
09:26:12 stimulate employment, and to truly capture the
09:26:16 entrepreneurial spirit.
09:26:17 So here we are.
09:26:19 We are sort of at the starting line of the Gasparilla
09:26:23 This is what we are proposing, is this economic
09:26:27 development pool.
09:26:28 We need somebody to fire the starting gun.
09:26:31 We think that we can put together a program of very
09:26:34 comprehensive program that can be executed properly and
09:26:39 create what we need to create in this area to create
09:26:42 jobs, economic opportunity, and true innovation.
09:26:47 Thank you.
09:26:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:27:00 >>MARK HUEY: Thank you, E.J.
09:27:02 I want to briefly introduce some of the other folks
09:27:04 that are here with E.J. who work in this be environment
09:27:08 of helping small businesses.
09:27:16 Mr. Rossorio, we appreciate you being here.
09:27:22 Albert Lee is here, the consultant with the investment
09:27:28 And part of that board as well.
09:27:32 And serves in the capacity there, and she is
09:27:35 vice-president with Wachovia bank.
09:27:38 We appreciate you being here as well.
09:27:39 And they are resources for your discussion later.
09:27:43 Before turning it over, back to the chair, I would just
09:27:46 like to share a little bit about the policy framework
09:27:50 that if the city were to move forward, and between I
09:27:55 think used the analogy of firing the starting gun, and
09:28:03 if we pulled together the public and private sector,
09:28:05 what are some of the things we would need to think
09:28:08 What's the policy framework that we would have to
09:28:11 I said earlier, first of all, to fire that starting
09:28:15 gun, it should be a priority, and that we are willing
09:28:18 to devote time and attention.
09:28:19 We think we could be effective in this arena.
09:28:22 Secondly, I mentioned earlier, we have to commit funds
09:28:26 to the program.
09:28:28 You should know -- and Sal might say a brief word --
09:28:32 but essentially the only city funds, public funds that
09:28:35 the city has access to be that could fund such a
09:28:38 program would be CDBG funds, and our CRA or TIF funds.
09:28:46 The other general funds of the city by charter are not
09:28:49 allowable to be used in this sort of a program.
09:28:53 Did I say that okay, Sal?
09:28:56 By Florida Constitution.
09:29:02 So essentially we would have to commit in this case
09:29:05 either CRA -- and there's little negatives around the
09:29:08 CRA because it geographically limited to those specific
09:29:11 areas, or CRA DBG funds.
09:29:14 As now, the council as part of the process each year,
09:29:18 the annual cycle that the city goes through to commit
09:29:22 the use of CDBG dollars, and those dollars as you know
09:29:27 are declining each year, that federal source of money.
09:29:33 Beyond that, the kind of things that we would need to
09:29:38 think about are really to be very clear about who we
09:29:41 are trying to help, and exactly what is the need we are
09:29:46 trying to help.
09:29:47 E.J. J. did a pretty good job, I think, describing some
09:29:51 of the companies that are struggling to find capital
09:29:53 these days.
09:29:54 But, again, we really need to think about that.
09:29:58 Are we, for example, focusing on what I'll call
09:30:04 companies who maybe two to fifth third's loan
09:30:08 committee, and we are not sure, we are not sure, they
09:30:12 are on the bubble, and it decided that they won't
09:30:15 actually receive a loan?
09:30:16 Are those the kinds of companies?
09:30:19 Or are we talking about start-ups?
09:30:21 Or are we talking about those companies in underserved
09:30:25 market, historically underserved markets that can't
09:30:28 access capital?
09:30:29 Different programs for different needs.
09:30:33 What's the most efficient way for us to get involved?
09:30:37 We have all been -- revolving loan fund is one way.
09:30:40 Many communities, as you look into this program, commit
09:30:43 their resources in a way to try to leverage those
09:30:47 For example, some will challenge the philanthropic
09:30:51 community to come along side the money commitment.
09:30:54 Some will try to take advantage of federal programs
09:30:56 that might match local particulars that are committed
09:31:00 to grow a pool.
09:31:02 Other communities structure their program to where they
09:31:06 don't commit their funds as such to a revolving loan
09:31:09 fund, but that they work with one or more private
09:31:13 lenders and use their money as a loan loss reserve to
09:31:18 challenge that private institution to offer a larger
09:31:22 pool of private dollars into the marketplace.
09:31:26 So there's different ways for the city to think about
09:31:29 how to structure their program and eleven it.
09:31:37 Then there's -- if you were to approach it with a loan
09:31:43 fund, lots of different program elements for that.
09:31:47 What companies would be eligible, what kind of uses
09:31:50 could those companies use loan proceeds for, the size
09:31:55 of those loans,.
09:31:58 Again it depends on who you are trying to target.
09:32:00 Downtown, retail, restaurant kind of establishment
09:32:04 versus a law firm type of establishment as E.J. has
09:32:10 suggested in one of his examples.
09:32:12 What are the interest rates that would be established?
09:32:15 Would there be collateral requirements?
09:32:18 Who would administer the program?
09:32:20 How would we work with a consortium of private
09:32:23 institutions or nonprofits?
09:32:25 And what would those costs be?
09:32:28 One of the things that is very important to making a
09:32:31 lot of these programs successful is technical
09:32:35 And how would we build that into the program to ensure
09:32:41 that especially smaller and more early-stage companies
09:32:45 would be in a position to really take on a loan?
09:32:49 So, again, lots of different elements of a program, and
09:32:53 what it would take to make it successful.
09:32:56 And these are the things we would need to consider if
09:32:59 we were to move forward.
09:33:00 So with that, I will turn it back over to the chair for
09:33:07 council discussion.
09:33:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You mentioned the 90s when the
09:33:10 city did have fund, and some of us were here then.
09:33:13 What happened?
09:33:13 Why did it stop?
09:33:16 >>MARK HUEY: The fund was established in the mid
09:33:19 90s, and I wasn't here, so I'm really sharing with
09:33:22 you anecdotal information.
09:33:24 It was established because the city received a one-time
09:33:28 federal grant.
09:33:31 And one of the uses of those federal grant proceeds, it
09:33:34 was decided at that time by the administration, by the
09:33:37 council, was to set up a revolving loan fund.
09:33:39 I think they actually did a couple of different
09:33:42 But in this case, based on what I know, the city itself
09:33:48 decided to administer the program.
09:33:51 It didn't, you know, partner with private banking
09:33:55 It really ran the program internally and made loans.
09:34:00 Which I think all of the folks in the audience who are
09:34:03 experts would suggest is probably not the best way for
09:34:05 the public sector to get involved.
09:34:07 And because of that, from what I know, it really was
09:34:10 not very successful and very effective as a revolve
09:34:14 loan fund program.
09:34:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So we had failures.
09:34:17 That's what you are trying to tell me.
09:34:18 >> Yes, yes.
09:34:21 And that would be true not just in our city, but I
09:34:23 think, and E.J. shared his comments a little bit,
09:34:28 around the country.
09:34:29 And because this has been going on for decade, there's
09:34:31 lots of research, lots of history on it.
09:34:33 And there were many, many failures of revolving loan
09:34:36 So it's not something you do lightly at all.
09:34:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me continue.
09:34:41 Although the idea sounds great, when I start to look at
09:34:47 banks that don't give loans to be what we are talking
09:34:49 about, small businesses, to the private sector who
09:34:53 won't give loans to small business, there's a reason,
09:34:57 somewhere along the line, why they don't do it.
09:35:00 So what we are asking now is when you talk about CDBG
09:35:04 grant moneys that go into neighborhoods that are really
09:35:06 in need of infrastructure, of things that they want,
09:35:11 and there's only 20, 25% of the people that apply, even
09:35:16 get recognized, and of those that get recognized, maybe
09:35:20 10% get what they need in the neighborhood, then those
09:35:23 fund won't be available to the neighborhood for
09:35:26 neighborhood improvement.
09:35:27 Am I correct, in making that statement are?
09:35:29 >>MARK HUEY: That's right.
09:35:30 You would have to make this a priority over other uses
09:35:34 of those public funds.
09:35:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And there was one very good one, the
09:35:40 Outback started here and it's one of the best run
09:35:44 companies maybe in the world, and I agree with that.
09:35:46 But along with that comes the other side, the flip
09:35:49 And the flip side is not too beautiful.
09:35:53 We don't get in, and we don't own the buildings.
09:35:57 These usually are loans for things that if they were to
09:36:01 walk out, there would be no value left in the assets,
09:36:04 such as used telephones, used electronics, a banged-up
09:36:11 automobile, possibly.
09:36:12 Things of that nature, equipment, and whatever kind of
09:36:16 equipment we are talking about, whether it's a steamer,
09:36:18 or a fryer, or printer, or in the printing business, or
09:36:24 INK, or something that the value decreases so rapidly
09:36:28 that that's why they are not getting loans.
09:36:31 So I like to help out everybody that I can.
09:36:38 But on the flip side of this is that I am putting
09:36:41 taxpayers' money into no taxpayer return into the
09:36:47 neighborhoods, and that's what the city is all about.
09:36:50 We have tried that once.
09:36:52 And even though we say, well, we weren't the best to be
09:36:55 responsible to handle the loan, it was taxpayer loans.
09:37:01 So I don't know if anybody here would rusk their own
09:37:09 When I make a decision, would I make that loan myself?
09:37:12 If the answer is yes, then I vote yes.
09:37:14 Will I make that -- I don't know what the paperwork
09:37:17 looks like, what the applications -- I don't know what
09:37:19 individuals they are.
09:37:20 I don't know what credibility they have.
09:37:22 I don't know what track record they have.
09:37:24 I don't know what type of balance sheet they have.
09:37:27 I don't know if they are in the deficit coming in.
09:37:29 So these are the things that I also was in finance for
09:37:34 eleven years.
09:37:34 So when I approve loans, not only in factoring of the
09:37:40 manufacturer, which I did, and buying paper, which I
09:37:42 did, for many millions of dollars, and doing things
09:37:45 like that, I had to look at the credit balance sheet
09:37:48 and find out, what am I doing today so that I help
09:37:52 somebody, and in helping them, help yourself.
09:37:55 But if you continue to make mistakes, you are not
09:37:58 helping anyone.
09:38:00 Including yourself.
09:38:01 So what I am saying is, I don't know the parameters of
09:38:05 which this box is being framed.
09:38:08 I'm not here to give away money, I'll tell you that.
09:38:10 But I have got to do it in a way like the good banker
09:38:16 What are the parameters?
09:38:18 What kind of equity?
09:38:19 What kind of balance sheet?
09:38:20 What do they bring to the table that I can come back in
09:38:24 case something goes wrong and I can get the taxpayers'
09:38:27 money back.
09:38:28 That's the only hinge on this door that's not screwed
09:38:33 into the frame.
09:38:34 Do you understand what I am trying to say?
09:38:36 I want to help but without that framework, when it's
09:38:38 turned down by the private sector, by banks, things of
09:38:40 this nature, I become apprehensive.
09:38:44 It's not because of anything else other than a balance
09:38:48 And certifiably so.
09:38:51 So these are the things that worry me about the program
09:38:54 as it is when you presented it, or the board presented
09:38:57 it in a mannerism.
09:38:58 I'm not against it at all.
09:38:59 But I have got to know a lot more to vote on this, what
09:39:04 equity do I get back?
09:39:06 It's just like this is a business.
09:39:09 I mean, you run for -- you say you are going to run
09:39:12 like a business and the first thing you do is give
09:39:14 money a way, and I don't do that.
09:39:19 >> That's why I was describing a little bit the
09:39:22 parameters and policy decisions that the city would
09:39:23 have to make to establish a program.
09:39:26 You are really hitting at the heart of that, because
09:39:29 all those things you talked about, if really you are
09:39:34 going to work with those President Obama tension loan
09:39:37 applicants as I described them that were on the bubble
09:39:41 at a major institution, and these are companies with a
09:39:45 good business plan, a track record, but maybe there was
09:39:47 just the little something that didn't qualify them,
09:39:52 your credit risk is going to be pretty decent.
09:39:55 But as you then venture further and further from that,
09:39:58 and you work more and more with applicant who have very
09:40:06 nominal balance sheets and not significant business
09:40:09 plans and track records, you get more and more in the
09:40:11 start-ups, you get more and more in microlending,
09:40:15 smaller types of start-up business, yes, the credit
09:40:19 risk is much higher and the default likelihood
09:40:23 increases, and in the case of a public program the more
09:40:26 likelihood public tax money would be at risk.
09:40:29 But these are all the things that would have to be made
09:40:31 transparently as decisions in setting up the program
09:40:34 before you went forward.
09:40:41 >>CURTIS STOKES: E.J., the small business environment
09:40:44 in our city.
09:40:44 Mark, you mentioned several different ways that we can
09:40:46 fund a project like this, CDBG money, the other was
09:40:53 general revenue fund, and the other was --
09:40:57 >> Not general revenue.
09:40:58 The TIF.
09:41:00 >>CURTIS STOKES: TIF funds.
09:41:03 Correct me if I am wrong, but TIF funding comes from
09:41:05 the taxpayer, right?
09:41:10 >>MARK HUEY: Right.
09:41:10 Within the geographic boundaries.
09:41:13 >>CURTIS STOKES: And that's taxpayer money.
09:41:15 So it's not government money, it taxpayers money.
09:41:18 >> It's public funds.
09:41:21 >>CURTIS STOKES: Right.
09:41:22 It taxpayers money.
09:41:23 >> Right.
09:41:25 >> So we are taking taxpayers money within those
09:41:28 defined geographic areas, redistributing it back to the
09:41:31 taxpayers, businesses that will potentially be within
09:41:34 those seven CRAs.
09:41:36 So we are not spending any different money.
09:41:39 We are redistributing the money back to the community,
09:41:42 that the tax money is come from.
09:41:43 >> That's right.
09:41:46 >>CURTIS STOKES: The Hispanic business initiative fund,
09:41:50 they are assistance experts; local and small
09:41:56 businesses, take those small businesses, making sure
09:41:59 they have adequate balance sheets, making sure that
09:42:02 they have the balance sheet are adequate, the business
09:42:07 plans are adequate, to decrease the number of default
09:42:17 that may happen.
09:42:21 Let me ask a question.
09:42:24 Of your loan portfolio, what percentage of that goes
09:42:27 into default?
09:42:30 >> It's important to clarify that --
09:42:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name for the record.
09:42:36 >> I'm sorry. Yanina Rosario, Hispanic business
09:42:40 >> You all are technical assistance provider?
09:42:43 >> We are technical assistance provider.
09:42:45 We do help the individual prepare for the moment where
09:42:48 they go ahead and it would be through microloan
09:42:52 program, regular lending programs, or government
09:42:57 guarantees such as SBA programs, so they can be
09:43:00 successful solicitors of those loans.
09:43:08 >>CURTIS STOKES: Thank you.
09:43:09 Can you give us what you all do with the BBS, the
09:43:12 investment corporation?
09:43:13 >> Absolutely.
09:43:14 And I appreciate the opportunity to address the council
09:43:16 this morning.
09:43:16 This is a very important issue.
09:43:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name.
09:43:19 >> Albert Lee, capital group, couple with the Tampa Bay
09:43:24 business investment corporation.
09:43:25 I have been a banker in this community for 20-plus
09:43:28 So I certainly appreciate the comments that Mr. Miranda
09:43:31 To address your point, Mr. Stokes, the Tampa Bay black
09:43:36 business corporation has been around for more than 20
09:43:39 Unfortunately, Ms. Francis Wimbley is not here, she had
09:43:44 an illness and had to leave last night so unfortunately
09:43:46 she wasn't able to be here.
09:43:47 But the BBIC primarily functions to help individuals
09:43:51 who are small business owners.
09:43:52 Now right now our primary targeted community is
09:43:54 minority businesses.
09:43:56 Something like this would help us extend that reach
09:43:59 beyond just that part of the community to where we
09:44:01 could extend our help and our assistance to other
09:44:05 business owners as well.
09:44:07 The Tampa Bay black business investment corporation,
09:44:09 when we underwrite loans, and we look at loans, we
09:44:13 underwrite the risk very similar to be a bank.
09:44:15 Some of the things that we have at our disposal that
09:44:19 will differentiate us from a bank, and might give
09:44:21 consideration to individuals who otherwise wouldn't be
09:44:24 able to receive credit, is we have some discretion to
09:44:28 look at some things that perhaps a bank wouldn't want
09:44:32 to look at.
09:44:33 Banks, as you know, Mr. Stokes, have shareholder
09:44:38 One of the things that nonprofit agencies have at their
09:44:42 disposal, the fact that we are mission driven.
09:44:45 We don't necessarily have to respond technically to
09:44:48 So we can take a look at areas of risk that perhaps a
09:44:52 bank wouldn't want to do because it doesn't make sense
09:44:55 for the bank, but doesn't necessarily mean that that
09:44:57 person isn't someone that should deserve credit.
09:45:00 A lot of our refusals come from banks.
09:45:03 And it's not junk that they refer to us.
09:45:05 It's customers that they feel are right on that bubble
09:45:08 that they feel could potentially be a good client.
09:45:11 Many of those people we return back to the banks.
09:45:15 So one of the things we will do is tab a client that
09:45:17 perhaps isn't quite bank ready, provide the funding,
09:45:20 along with the technical assistance and get that
09:45:24 customer in a position where they become bank ready.
09:45:27 I don't know if that helps.
09:45:28 >> It does.
09:45:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right now most of our funding comes
09:45:32 from the state.
09:45:32 >> And it's pretty much like this revolving loan fund
09:45:36 that we are talking about today.
09:45:38 You set those funds aside and make loans based on those
09:45:41 funds set aside, right?
09:45:43 >> Yes.
09:45:43 >> And you underwrite the risk and collateral?
09:45:46 Give me the typical scenario, if Mr. Caetano came to
09:45:54 the BBSC for a loan, explain how that would work.
09:45:59 >> Essentially one of the things we are able to do,
09:46:01 right now, a lot of banks have a hard credit score.
09:46:06 What do we mean by that?
09:46:08 If you don't meet a certain credit score threshold, a
09:46:11 lot of that became even more pronounced over the last
09:46:14 couple of years considering the environment and the
09:46:16 lending environment that banks were involved in.
09:46:19 One of the things that we have at our discretion is
09:46:21 because we are able to look at deals on a case-by-case
09:46:25 basis we can talk to that client and find out what
09:46:28 maybe caused that credit impairment.
09:46:29 It may be something as simple as a credit card,
09:46:32 balances went up because they were trying to support
09:46:35 their business, and if your credit card balances exceed
09:46:40 a certain percentage of the outstanding available
09:46:44 credit, that can have an adverse impact on your credit.
09:46:47 Perhaps your credit slowed down a little bit and you
09:46:50 missed a few payment.
09:46:51 We have the ability to take a look at that loan.
09:46:53 So we will find out what the issues are, okay, what
09:46:56 were the problems?
09:46:57 We can give that consideration.
09:46:58 As a banker, I don't have that kind of time.
09:47:01 I don't have that kind of time to go through and look
09:47:03 at each customer and make those kind of decisions.
09:47:06 There was a time when banks did that.
09:47:08 But at the BBSC because of what we do we have that
09:47:12 ability to do that.
09:47:12 We can take a look at that individual case by case.
09:47:15 So essentially, Mr. Stokes, to answer your question,
09:47:17 the underwriting process will proceed very similar to a
09:47:20 We take a look at that package.
09:47:22 We are going to underwrite it with cash flow first.
09:47:25 So we want to make sure that that business has
09:47:27 sufficient cash flow to repay the debt.
09:47:29 And then we are going to take a look at the available
09:47:31 collateral that we will have to secure ourselves in the
09:47:34 >> So you are mitigating for risk?
09:47:36 >> We are mitigating for risk and they have to sign a
09:47:39 personal garn tear F.customers are not willing to do
09:47:41 those things, then those are not customers that are
09:47:43 willing to borrow the money.
09:47:44 We don't just give the money away.
09:47:46 That's one of the things we make clear.
09:47:48 We don't have a giveaway program.
09:47:49 If you go into default, we go after you.
09:47:52 And that's what we have done.
09:47:53 We have done that.
09:47:54 And customers know that.
09:47:56 We make that clear.
09:47:56 >> Thank you, Mr. Lee.
09:48:00 >> Michelle mainer.
09:48:09 I want to add the other piece of the Tampa Bay black
09:48:11 business corporation and originals like that, there's
09:48:15 an understanding that if anybody comes to the BBIC for
09:48:19 money, it because they can't get a loan, or can't
09:48:22 qualify for a loan at a bank.
09:48:25 That may not always be the case.
09:48:27 Many times, there is a gap in what a bank -- what
09:48:32 product they may or may not offer compared to what a
09:48:35 client needs.
09:48:36 A client may only need he a $1500 business small
09:48:45 business loan and don't need a credit card.
09:48:47 Banks are not going to do that for a small business.
09:48:49 And I think it's important to understand that there is
09:48:52 an opportunity for the City of Tampa to take care of
09:48:56 those small businesses that fall within that gap.
09:49:01 Now, whether that's a revolving loan fund, whether
09:49:06 it's -- let's put the money out there, using these
09:49:11 organizations, to get it out on the street, knowing
09:49:14 that they are underwriting them for risk, nobody is
09:49:19 seeing this as a grant program.
09:49:21 It is a loan program.
09:49:23 And the whole idea of a lot of these originals is to
09:49:27 make a business stronger so that ultimately they can
09:49:30 grow and then help our community.
09:49:35 The last thing I want to say is, failure of small
09:49:38 businesses has a significant ripple effect.
09:49:41 In our community.
09:49:47 Even as the smallest of business they have at least one
09:49:50 But if they can no longer support that business, it has
09:49:53 the same impact as unemployment on our community.
09:49:56 So I don't want you to think that these programs are
09:50:02 giveaway programs, because they are not.
09:50:04 We have organizations in our community who are
09:50:07 accustomed to weighing the risk to the benefit and
09:50:12 looking at the return on those funds, but also
09:50:16 understanding that there is a gap in our market from
09:50:19 what a bank can and will do, sometimes just from a pure
09:50:26 product standpoint, and what a small business may need.
09:50:30 Thank you.
09:50:32 >>CURTIS STOKES: Mr. Johnson, a question, please.
09:50:33 >> Ed Johnson.
09:50:44 The facade program is administered through our own
09:50:48 department, our own economic development department,
09:50:50 and it's funded primarily with TIF funds, in East
09:50:55 Tampa's case we set aside $800,000 for the program a
09:51:00 couple of years ago.
09:51:00 As you know, it took us awhile to develop the criteria
09:51:04 that we are governing the program under right now, but
09:51:08 there is an internal committee that reviews all of the
09:51:13 applications that come in for facade grants.
09:51:18 On that committee we also have representation from the
09:51:20 So the community is also part of the review process of
09:51:23 every loan that comes before us, before they are
09:51:26 approved, and then eventually come to you.
09:51:30 >> So we essentially already have a fund that's mainly
09:51:34 for commercial real estate?
09:51:35 >> For commercial real estate, and it's strictly
09:51:38 targeting those streets that front our commercial
09:51:44 district, and we are using those dollars to improve the
09:51:46 appearance of those businesses along those corridors.
09:51:50 >> And when the internal committee reviews them, it's
09:51:54 being underwritten for risk and to mitigate risk and
09:51:57 make sure --
09:51:58 >> That's correct, and we also partner with a nonprofit
09:52:03 outside entity, neighborhood lending partners, we fund
09:52:06 a portion of the proceeds of the grant for them to do
09:52:12 the due diligence on all of the individuals that, so
09:52:15 there is an administrative process that's underwritten
09:52:18 by neighborhood lending partners.
09:52:20 So there is a tremendous due diligence that takes
09:52:25 >>CURTIS STOKES: The last question, Mr. Johnson.
09:52:27 Is there a way we can partner with, say, HBIF, to do
09:52:32 the technical assistance, underwriting of the loan, if
09:52:35 we were to allocate funds to do something like this and
09:52:38 take for that matter to allocate and administrator a
09:52:41 revolving loan, but without city staff?
09:52:45 >> That's correct, we would have to -- we would still
09:52:48 like to -- because there are tiff funds, we still are
09:52:52 going to oversee the management of whoever is operating
09:52:55 the fund.
09:52:57 Will still be a player in the process itself.
09:53:01 So it's still going to have to be administered
09:53:03 through -- if you take the dollars and move out to a
09:53:08 nonprofit, yes, there would still have to be some
09:53:11 administrative oversight from city staff which
09:53:15 obviously takes up resource dollars.
09:53:17 >> And last year we took in $32 million in TIF funds?
09:53:23 So we were conservative.
09:53:26 and said we have to take 15% of TIF funds, into the
09:53:32 seven CRAs, let BBIC and take -- we are talking about
09:53:37 initial creation of a 4.50, $5 million fund to help
09:53:43 small businesses in the community.
09:53:46 >>MARK HUEY: The one thing I will point out is of the
09:53:49 30 million -- you asked was it 30 million?
09:53:53 >> 32 million.
09:53:54 >>MARK HUEY: Actually this current year it was near
09:53:57 24, 23.
09:53:59 32 was a couple -- couple years ago, and the point is,
09:54:06 of that amount, 13 million goes to the debt service of
09:54:08 the convention center.
09:54:09 So now you have that amount that is spread among them,
09:54:15 and if you use East Tampa, for example, East Tampa has
09:54:18 1.4 million this year of TIF resources.
09:54:24 If you were to apply it to East Tampa, you know, you
09:54:26 would have --
09:54:28 >> We still have adequate funds to be used for a
09:54:33 program like this, right?
09:54:34 >> A couple hundred thousand dollars, if you felt that
09:54:40 was going to be a meaningful program, and that might be
09:54:42 up for debate whether that would be -- could we
09:54:45 leverage that into something that could be meaningful?
09:54:47 That would be a question to talk about as part of a
09:54:53 discussion on a policy framework.
09:54:55 >> Okay.
09:54:56 >> I would like to make a couple comments about the
09:54:58 facade program just to bring clarity.
09:55:00 I think it's a good example in some respects, but not a
09:55:03 good maybe exact example in other respects.
09:55:07 It's a good example in the respect that it shows that
09:55:09 the city knows how to structure a program with
09:55:13 integrity and to get results.
09:55:15 And to have good financial stewardship.
09:55:18 But I do want to remind you that it is not a loan
09:55:21 It's a grant program.
09:55:22 >> Right.
09:55:24 We are talking about loan program.
09:55:26 >> And I also want to remind you that part of the
09:55:28 stewardship of that program is we are the last money
09:55:31 in, into a program that is leveraging private dollars
09:55:35 first on the part of the grant application.
09:55:37 So they put their half of the investment in first.
09:55:40 Then we provide grants to help the --
09:55:44 >> But we are talking about revolving loan funds, alone
09:55:47 made to actual business.
09:55:51 >> Yes, yes: And in fact to use the program analogy,
09:55:56 there are some communities who again invest their
09:55:58 money, not in a revolving loan fund exactly like that
09:56:04 but they will go to private bank and say, we are 50% of
09:56:07 the loan.
09:56:12 You be 50% of the loan, private sector, and you
09:56:15 underwrite it and we will be in for 50%.
09:56:17 So again there's a lot of different ways to structure
09:56:19 the public sector's engagement with the private
09:56:22 investor in this arena,.
09:56:25 >> And again to reiterate, it's not the government's
09:56:29 At this time taxpayers money because they are paying
09:56:31 into the system, right?
09:56:32 >> Yes.
09:56:35 It's all taxpayer money.
09:56:37 CDBG dollars are federal taxpayer money.
09:56:41 TIF dollars are paid in by the neighborhood.
09:56:43 You know,.
09:56:49 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Huey, if a business has been
09:56:52 declining through a bank that they may have done
09:56:55 business with for a number of years, in order to get a
09:56:58 loan, then they come to this organization that you are
09:57:02 trying to establish, what are the chances of them
09:57:04 getting a loan from them?
09:57:09 >>MARK HUEY: It would really depend on how you set up
09:57:11 the program, and what the underwriting requirements
09:57:14 would be, and whether they would be a suitable
09:57:16 candidate under those requirements.
09:57:18 >> Let's consider the suitable candidate F.somebody has
09:57:21 been in business for 20, 25 years, and the economy has
09:57:24 hit that particular business, what happens?
09:57:33 >> Well, again, if you are going to have the kind of
09:57:35 program that councilman Miranda was advocating for,
09:57:38 which was a program that underwrites whether a business
09:57:42 has a business plan, and a viable future, and has an
09:57:46 ability to repay the loan, and has an ability to secure
09:57:49 the loan, then all of those factors would be taken into
09:57:52 consideration and evaluating that candidate.
09:57:55 >> Well, if somebody has been in business for 25 years,
09:57:57 they must have had a business plan in order to get
09:57:59 there for 25 years.
09:58:00 >> Sure.
09:58:03 But as you know, buggy whips, guys that were in
09:58:10 business for 50 or 100 years and the economy changed.
09:58:14 All of those things, I know it's hard to respond just
09:58:16 to generic example.
09:58:19 I'm just suggesting to you -- if the city were to move
09:58:24 forward on something like this, we would all work
09:58:26 together, we would work together with private
09:58:28 institutions, would first identify exactly who we are
09:58:32 trying to help, what kind of businesses, experiencing
09:58:35 what kind of difficulty, and we would tailor a program
09:58:38 to try to be effective with good stewardship of
09:58:41 taxpayer or public dollars or whatever you prefer to
09:58:44 call them, and we could do that.
09:58:47 But first we have to feel it's a private, and that we
09:58:50 can make a difference, and that we have dollars that we
09:58:53 want to commit to it.
09:58:54 >> Are you going to have the criteria set up before
09:58:56 this board votes on this?
09:58:59 >>MARK HUEY: This is simply a workshop.
09:59:01 And I think what I suggested in my opening comments is
09:59:04 that it would really be up to the next administration
09:59:07 to really decide to move forward, a new mayor, a new
09:59:11 council, to say that this should be an economic
09:59:13 development priority, and that we are willing to commit
09:59:19 CDBG or TIF dollars, and of course if we are involving
09:59:23 TIF dollars we would be working with our respective
09:59:26 communities to get their input and their support of
09:59:29 this type of program.
09:59:34 I think that would be the appropriate next step at this
09:59:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just follow up, councilman
09:59:44 Let me just follow up.
09:59:45 I guess my question would be at this point is to BBIC,
09:59:53 you are doing this now.
09:59:58 >> Yes, sir.
10:00:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You are doing this now and you loan up
10:00:01 to how much?
10:00:02 >> We can do up to $50,000 in direct loans, and we can
10:00:05 provide a guarantee up to $75,000 which would be
10:00:09 roughly 50% of the maximum loan.
10:00:13 So $150 thousand loan is the maximum, because we do up
10:00:16 to --
10:00:18 >> So the maximum on the loan you will do.
10:00:20 >> We don't fund that loan.
10:00:22 That would be us providing a 75% guarantee.
10:00:25 The maximum amount we can do in a direct loan to a
10:00:27 client is 50,000.
10:00:30 >> So, then, doing that now, how many loans are you
10:00:36 making annually now?
10:00:38 Are you able to meet those obligations?
10:00:42 Is there more requests than you are able to provide?
10:00:45 >> Right now we to have adequate amount of requests.
10:00:48 One of the things that we run into is we have a
10:00:50 tendency -- we decline more loans.
10:00:53 Because people don't meet a lot of the underwriting
10:00:55 criteria, which is the point I want to stress,
10:00:57 particularly with Mr. Miranda, with regards to risk.
10:01:00 We do underwrite for risk.
10:01:02 So there are people that come to us for loans that you
10:01:05 just can't help.
10:01:06 Every person that wants to start a business may not be
10:01:10 in a position to start that business.
10:01:12 If you are not willing to invest some of our own money,
10:01:15 if you have not demonstrated to us that you have
10:01:17 invested some of your own money, that you have skin in
10:01:20 the game, that you are not willing to take the
10:01:24 technical assistance that we provide, then you may not
10:01:27 qualify for a loan.
10:01:29 But for those businesses that demonstrate that they
10:01:31 have the capacity to operate their business, that they
10:01:34 can meet the underwriting criteria, and they have a
10:01:37 plan showing that they can make their business work,
10:01:41 those are the kind of businesses that we deal with.
10:01:43 >> So then my question goes back again, then, you have
10:01:47 adequate funding now for businesses, right?
10:01:51 >> To a certain degree.
10:01:53 One of the things you have to do is you do have to be
10:01:56 careful not to loan yourself out of business.
10:02:00 If you have additional dollars, then we could do
10:02:02 additional outreach.
10:02:04 And that's where the additional funding for us would be
10:02:07 extremely, extremely helpful.
10:02:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I guess my question is then, who
10:02:11 are we trying to target, and you are already doing
10:02:15 this, is that right? So then who is our targeted
10:02:18 Who is our targeted businesses that we are trying to
10:02:21 assist at this point?
10:02:24 Because clearly, you are doing this now.
10:02:26 >> And we serve a particular segment of the community.
10:02:31 We are -- we typically have to reach out to
10:02:34 African-American businesses.
10:02:35 >> To do what now?
10:02:37 >> We only serve African-American businesses.
10:02:39 The statute that implements the Tampa Bay black
10:02:42 business investment corporation --
10:02:44 >> You may want to check that because I was told that
10:02:46 you have to lend to everybody.
10:02:47 I'm not sure about that.
10:02:48 You may want to check that.
10:02:49 Because I inquired about that, and I have been out
10:02:53 campaigning and pushing BBIC.
10:02:55 I was told that they would lend X number of dollars up
10:02:59 to anybody.
10:03:00 >> The Tampa Bay black business investment corporation
10:03:03 primarily lends to African-American businesses.
10:03:06 And again, Francis isn't here.
10:03:08 Francis can speak, probably speak to that.
10:03:11 But one of the things that these additional funds would
10:03:13 allow us to do as I said earlier, would allow us to
10:03:16 extend our reach to the broader community.
10:03:18 We deal with small businesses in that microloan
10:03:23 And we talk about who we want to reach out to and who
10:03:27 would be our target market, one of the spaces that
10:03:29 blanks don't play in very well simply because it's not
10:03:33 efficient are those targeted loans of $50,000 or less.
10:03:35 People have a tendency to categorize those at
10:03:39 That space used to be filled by home equity loan but we
10:03:43 all know what has happened to a lot of equity in
10:03:47 people's homes so there's a gap there.
10:03:47 For those individuals as Michelle alluded to earlier,
10:03:52 if you need a $20,000 loan in, most cases if you were
10:03:54 to walk into a bank and you want a small business loan
10:03:57 for $20,000, that is typically not a space that banks
10:04:00 are going to play in.
10:04:02 If you can do that through a credit scoring system, if
10:04:05 your credit score is high enough you might be able to
10:04:07 qualify for one of those small loans through a bank.
10:04:10 But if your credit score has been hurt as many peoples
10:04:14 have over the last few years, things you are probably
10:04:18 not going to qualify.
10:04:19 So that means that person is not a good business
10:04:22 Absolutely not.
10:04:23 They should be a space for us to play.
10:04:26 And to the point about whether government should be
10:04:28 involved -- and I won't belabor that point -- I would
10:04:31 say this.
10:04:32 SBA used to loan money directly.
10:04:34 They found it was more efficient for them to use the
10:04:37 private sector to do that.
10:04:39 They didn't scrap the whole program because it didn't
10:04:41 work well.
10:04:42 They found a way to make it work.
10:04:44 What we are saying is if we can partner with
10:04:46 government, we have the expertise, we have the
10:04:48 background, we have individuals that are professionals
10:04:51 in this that we feel that that would be a good way to
10:04:54 partner and make a program work.
10:04:56 >> It depends on the funding source.
10:05:08 The BBC was getting funding at one point, and the
10:05:12 purpose was specifically to provide lending to
10:05:16 African-American-owned businesses.
10:05:19 We have some other programs that are not race specific.
10:05:24 As an example, we have programs for the school board to
10:05:31 provide some gap funding for those businesses that have
10:05:38 That is not race-specific.
10:05:41 So it depends on where the funds have come from and the
10:05:46 purpose of that loan fund.
10:05:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I'm glad you made that
10:05:52 clarification because I was told, and I thought you may
10:05:57 want to check that source because I was told exactly
10:05:59 what you are saying, that almost anyone could apply,
10:06:03 and you are saying basically that you are working with
10:06:06 the school board on their contract.
10:06:08 >> And, also, is SBA.
10:06:14 So some programs, yes, are race-specific, but not
10:06:17 everything we do.
10:06:18 >> And I'm sure if the city decides to go into this
10:06:21 program using taxpayer dollars, that will be the case
10:06:28 >> Absolutely.
10:06:28 That's why we made the distinction between just a small
10:06:31 business loan program and an African-American small
10:06:35 business program.
10:06:35 That's not what we are talking about today.
10:06:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Huey, again, there's nothing
10:06:47 wrong with helping small business.
10:06:49 There is, in my opinion, a process that we don't know
10:06:54 anything about, has never been discussed.
10:06:58 You were mentioning $23 million and it's grant moneys
10:07:03 of which 13 million is taken out for the debt service
10:07:06 at the convention center.
10:07:07 Am I right?
10:07:09 It's 10 million and you are making a certain sector in
10:07:12 the city which then would have 1.4 million from that
10:07:16 CDB grant moneys.
10:07:18 Am correct to that point?
10:07:21 >>MARK HUEY: Yes, that's TIF money.
10:07:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Then if you are taking 15% of that,
10:07:25 that's $210,000.
10:07:27 How many loans are you going to make?
10:07:30 >>MARK HUEY: Right.
10:07:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I mean, how many are we going to
10:07:34 What I'm looking at is, who is going to take the risk?
10:07:37 And I'm just talking -- you know, I used to do
10:07:41 I used to do not only the factoring of a country, I
10:07:47 used to do floor planning and at the end the finance
10:07:49 department brought it to my signature for approval of
10:07:51 the loan.
10:07:52 I was on the hook for the company when I approved a
10:07:55 loan, and that delinquent rate was over 3%.
10:07:59 They didn't like me too much.
10:08:02 So what I'm saying is, I don't know what the delinquent
10:08:05 rate is, and maybe there's none.
10:08:07 I don't know.
10:08:07 I hope there's none.
10:08:09 But I'm sure there is because that's the nature of what
10:08:11 we are dealing with.
10:08:13 So I don't know these questions for me to answer and to
10:08:17 get back and take.
10:08:18 But maybe we get a cosigner like myself, you and I
10:08:22 cosign, I'm responsible.
10:08:23 Or maybe you can cosign the note and be responsible.
10:08:26 Somebody is going to have to be responsible for
10:08:28 taxpayers money.
10:08:30 That's what I'm looking at.
10:08:31 I'm looking at a way to give the program out, and make
10:08:34 the good people here responsible for that loan.
10:08:36 >>MARK HUEY: Yes.
10:08:40 One point that you make in using a number like 200,000,
10:08:44 which is an important one for one to think about,
10:08:47 because you want to be able to be effective, and what
10:08:51 you have heard is we would want to partner with a
10:08:54 private partner.
10:08:55 Well, they would require some seed.
10:08:58 And would you want to partner with someone like HBIS
10:09:05 that would require technical assistance.
10:09:08 They would require fees.
10:09:09 So that 200 might be something significantly less, as
10:09:13 you really add mer the program.
10:09:17 So you want to have enough program to make it
10:09:20 worthwhile and including all the administrative costs.
10:09:22 And I think that's a good point that would need to be
10:09:25 taken into account if you are going to try to move
10:09:27 forward on a program like this.
10:09:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Councilman Stokes.
10:09:33 >>CURTIS STOKES: Mr. Huey, we are talking about
10:09:35 creating a committee to put together a program like
10:09:37 this, right?
10:09:38 >>MARK HUEY: Yes.
10:09:39 I think if you were going to do it right the lessons
10:09:42 learned is that you have to bring the private sector to
10:09:45 the table, you have to bring nonprofits like the one
10:09:47 you have heard from today to the table to talk through.
10:09:51 >>CURTIS STOKES: And the program won't be East Tampa
10:09:53 It will be city-wide.
10:09:56 >>MARK HUEY: It would depend on the funding source.
10:10:00 It would be in East Tampa.
10:10:03 >>CURTIS STOKES: Exactly.
10:10:04 But East Tampa had 1.4 million.
10:10:06 Drew Park will have a certain amount.
10:10:08 Downtown have a certain amount.
10:10:11 >>MARK HUEY: If each CRA were to get involved with the
10:10:14 program, in the downtown, it may not have any
10:10:17 discretionary --
10:10:18 >> But it would be up to the CRA board.
10:10:20 >> Exactly.
10:10:21 And you could.
10:10:22 And each CRA might target something differently, might
10:10:26 structure their program a little differently because
10:10:28 downtown is different from East Tampa.
10:10:29 >> So with each community -- just like the facade
10:10:35 Each community has a an ability to tailor their
10:10:41 >>CURTIS STOKES: Ms. Mainer, can you explain how the
10:10:43 CRA works and how you can leverage a $200,000
10:10:47 commitment to possibly matching funds, or bank or CRA
10:10:52 credit, please?
10:10:56 >> Make sure I understand.
10:10:59 >>CURTIS STOKES: It was mentioned that $200,000 may not
10:11:01 be a lot of money to loan out.
10:11:03 But can you explain how the CRA process works, the
10:11:08 investment plan works, and how you can leverage the
10:11:11 200,000 to get additional funds for a bank to give out,
10:11:16 that they have more money to lend out?
10:11:18 >> Yes.
10:11:18 As a matter of fact, one of the things that we look at
10:11:21 in the financial services industry is how are we
10:11:26 Our lending service and investment, which we are
10:11:30 holding very strict -- we are putting very close eyes
10:11:37 And the lending piece of our OPC test, we are looking
10:11:42 at how are we leveraging small business lending, but we
10:11:50 also then have our foundation.
10:11:53 So organizations that are focusing on that small
10:11:58 business piece, and providing technical assistance as
10:12:01 an example, they may have an opportunity then to apply
10:12:04 to our foundation, and qualify for community
10:12:07 development for us.
10:12:08 >> So things have to do community development loans?
10:12:13 >> Absolutely.
10:12:14 We are doing community development lending and we are
10:12:16 doing community development investments, so
10:12:19 organizations, both of the ones that are here today,
10:12:23 are organizations that as institutions? And as
10:12:29 bankers, if there's 200,000 over here, we generally
10:12:32 give fund to match those funds that are already
10:12:36 existing to do additional loans.
10:12:38 >> Yes.
10:12:39 Many times, we will consider that an investment, at a
10:12:46 have low cost in order to have make even more of the
10:12:51 initial funds they have.
10:12:51 >> So about 300 banks in Hillsborough County with all
10:12:55 having community development lending requirements,
10:12:58 $200,000 can quickly turn into a half a million?
10:13:02 >> Cot very easily turn into a whole lot more than
10:13:07 And that's a great point.
10:13:10 Something like impact, it's more than just whatever the
10:13:13 funds you put up initially.
10:13:16 Especially if the city decided to invest -- and I will
10:13:22 use a number, $200,000.
10:13:25 500,000 sound a whole lot better.
10:13:28 But that amount is with these organizations, and those
10:13:33 funds get repaid, and they have an ability then to
10:13:39 re-lend those fund to another business.
10:13:41 And it just keeps going.
10:13:44 And we are working to make the small businesses in our
10:13:47 market a whole lot stronger.
10:13:48 >> Thank you.
10:13:50 And as TIF revenues decrease over time because of
10:13:55 declining property values perhaps, as you are repaying
10:13:58 interest on these loans that we create, the customer
10:14:01 goes back, and the interest goes back into revolving,
10:14:04 and do additional loans.
10:14:05 So you are still replenishing the loan pool with
10:14:09 interest being paid.
10:14:11 >> Absolutely.
10:14:12 And it's the ability to continue to help businesses in
10:14:14 the community.
10:14:18 >>CURTIS STOKES: Thank you, Ms. Mainer.
10:14:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to move, to wrap this up.
10:14:24 >> Good point.
10:14:28 And what we discussed last week was perhaps not just
10:14:30 the traditional model, but councilman Miranda pointed
10:14:34 out, but bringing other organizations that have an
10:14:37 altruistic situation as well such as TECO to make sure
10:14:41 if we create a business, that TECO would share in the
10:14:44 revenue as well because there would be more electricity
10:14:47 going out, people could pay their bills, bringing the
10:14:49 private sector to bear not just the financial
10:14:52 institutions into a coalition of a pool.
10:14:55 And when we do that, we can then see this thing start
10:14:58 to snowball.
10:14:59 So now we have got a bigger pool of money that we can
10:15:02 in fact lend out for loans.
10:15:04 Councilman Miranda's point is very well taken.
10:15:07 I have lived through that as well.
10:15:08 And I agree 100 percent.
10:15:10 And that was the crux of our discussion last week.
10:15:12 How do we formalize, how do we train the people, how do
10:15:16 we make sure we administrator this so, A, we are
10:15:19 putting out a good loan that we are going to get paid
10:15:22 back, and by the way, might make a little money on in
10:15:25 the meantime, and then replenish that and put it out to
10:15:30 business again.
10:15:31 The general feeling of our group -- and there was a
10:15:33 whole bunch of us last week and only part of us what
10:15:36 were here today -- this is a critical juncture in the
10:15:39 business cycle of Tampa at this point.
10:15:41 We didn't get hit as hard as Detroit and a couple of
10:15:45 other cities, but we can repair this.
10:15:46 And if we put together a comprehensive program, I think
10:15:50 we can make this thing work.
10:15:54 >>CURTIS STOKES: Mark, even though some of us may
10:15:55 change on the council, I think E.J. and Anita are still
10:16:03 going to be there so I think it's critical to start
10:16:05 this committee to start exploring different ways that
10:16:07 we can get this done, even if the next
10:16:10 administration -- I can't see the next mayor, whoever
10:16:12 that may be, not wanting to support small business.
10:16:15 >>MARK HUEY: Thank you.
10:16:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess, though, the concern becomes
10:16:23 really you only have one avenue.
10:16:25 Now, you mentioned the CDBG funding, but as you know,
10:16:30 it continues to shrink federal government, secondly,
10:16:35 it's been tied particularly to underserved
10:16:37 neighborhoods primarily.
10:16:38 >>MARK HUEY: Yes.
10:16:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the only thing that you are looking
10:16:42 at left perhaps is your TIF dollars.
10:16:45 So then you are looking at seven, eight CRAs that may
10:16:52 have different criterias.
10:16:54 >>MARK HUEY: Right.
10:16:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So you are only looking at that
10:16:56 resource from my perspective.
10:16:59 >>MARK HUEY: I think we can initiate that conversation
10:17:03 with different redevelopment areas, and I think that
10:17:05 will come up as part of the course of the budget,
10:17:09 budgeting process this year.
10:17:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, does anyone from the public wish
10:17:21 to address council on that particular workshop?
10:17:23 You have three minutes to come forth.
10:17:25 Anyone from the public?
10:17:31 Okay, then we will move to the next workshop.
10:17:46 How much time are we going to take -- go back to 2.
10:17:54 How much time do we need on that one?
10:17:56 Because we are running behind schedule.
10:18:02 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:18:03 My presentation is about a minute.
10:18:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:18:13 One second.
10:18:13 Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:18:15 >>MARY MULHERN: I wasn't here at the beginning of the
10:18:17 meeting when this was before she discusses that.
10:18:22 But when you went over the agenda, but I believe item 4
10:18:28 is a discussion, is misprinted here what the discussion
10:18:32 is about.
10:18:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
10:18:33 I was going to come to that.
10:18:35 >>MARY MULHERN: There are a lot of people waiting here
10:18:37 under the impression --
10:18:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yeah, the heading is not accurate.
10:18:43 We are talking primarily on item 4, we are discussing
10:18:46 the homelessness issue, not the solicitation ordinance.
10:18:53 That won't be discussed today.
10:18:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just to refresh council's
10:18:58 recollection, it's unfortunate what in fact happened
10:19:00 was the motion that appears on your agenda was set on
10:19:03 January 13th of 2011, but as you know, the
10:19:08 solicitation ordinance did come to council on first
10:19:10 reading, and what happened is it was disposed of.
10:19:14 It was actually did not pass, it was defeated on second
10:19:17 reading on February 3rd, 2011.
10:19:19 So that issue has been addressed by City Council.
10:19:22 But, unfortunately, this workshop having been set in
10:19:24 advance wasn't corrected to address that.
10:19:26 So, Mr. Chairman, you are correct that the focus will
10:19:29 be on the homelessness issue.
10:19:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:19:37 Thank you.
10:19:46 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I wanted to correct the record.
10:19:47 Thank you.
10:19:48 I would like to correct the record from January
10:19:56 I think Ms. Capin who had to leave made the motion.
10:20:01 Did I not make the motion on record for this workshop.
10:20:06 It was made by Chairman Scott and seconded by
10:20:13 councilman Stokes.
10:20:15 That's one.
10:20:16 And then I think the maker of the movement is not here,
10:20:20 referring to me.
10:20:21 I did not make that motion.
10:20:23 And I would like the record to reflect that.
10:20:32 The motion for this workshop.
10:20:38 It would be November 18th, set for January
10:20:41 27th, and I did not make that motion.
10:20:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:20:49 In my backup it says made by Scott and Stokes on the
10:20:53 18th, it says in my backup.
10:20:57 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Correct.
10:20:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It was continued.
10:21:00 >> But on the 27th it was stated, I think Ms.
10:21:03 Capin, who had to leave, made the motion, and I wanted
10:21:06 to correct that.
10:21:07 I did not make the motion.
10:21:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:21:17 But the workshop, it was based on a motion that you are
10:21:20 attempting to make, trying to frame, and at that point
10:21:24 it did not get I think enough votes, and so we came
10:21:28 back and restructured the motion so that would be
10:21:30 discussed relative to the alcoholic beverage
10:21:34 establishment, as I recall.
10:21:38 >>YVONNE CAPIN: That's correct, but I didn't make the
10:21:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, all right.
10:21:41 The record shall reflect that in these minutes.
10:21:44 Go ahead.
10:21:44 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:21:47 I'm just going to open this.
10:21:50 Mr. Slater is here as well from code enforcement, as
10:21:53 well as a member of TPD just to address any questions
10:21:57 and talk about some of the enforcement protocol.
10:22:00 I just want to show you basically -- and I have copies
10:22:02 if you would like them.
10:22:04 This is our general protocol for alcoholic beverage
10:22:08 We do have a core team generally that works on these
10:22:11 issues, myself as the zoning administrator.
10:22:13 We do have alcoholic beverage record keeper in our
10:22:17 office that tracks all approvals, posting, everything
10:22:24 There is a captain and sergeant with TPD in each area
10:22:27 throughout the city that we work with.
10:22:28 The business tax inspector that is assigned for alcohol
10:22:32 who actually does the physical posting of the
10:22:35 properties notifies us that they are done, and take
10:22:38 pictures of such.
10:22:39 We have legal Steve that we can refer on various
10:22:44 General code enforcement staff, and of course alcohol,
10:22:49 beverage and tobacco inspectors.
10:22:50 We have six general steps than we gob through.
10:22:53 If there is a complaint made on a particular
10:22:55 establishment, TPD and/or code enforcement, business
10:23:01 tax coordinates with our office, describing what
10:23:03 complaints are made.
10:23:04 We generally, from the zoning office, I will look at an
10:23:07 issue and determine what is being said so far, and
10:23:11 whether or not to take the next step.
10:23:14 We inform the core team of the potential issues,
10:23:18 depending on state license violation.
10:23:21 We also may ask the state to coordinate.
10:23:27 The inspection is completed.
10:23:28 The numbers of the core team receive back those
10:23:32 Investigations, arrest reports, whatever may come of
10:23:35 I will actually review all of that documentation and
10:23:38 submit it back to me against the alcoholic beverage
10:23:41 code and determine if there's any potential violation
10:23:45 potentially to bring forward to City Council.
10:23:47 If there are any violations that I can see from those
10:23:53 arrests or documentations from the inspection, then I
10:23:56 will notify the core team.
10:24:00 I will ask TPD to go ahead and issue the notice letter.
10:24:03 TPD issues a notice letter that is directed to me.
10:24:05 It's hand delivered to the operator on site.
10:24:10 Once I receive that, I in turn issue a certified letter
10:24:12 to the property owner and the holder of the license,
10:24:17 notifying them that this is what's been observed.
10:24:21 This appears to be in violation of code.
10:24:24 You have approximately a certain amount of time,
10:24:27 usually ten business days, to respond to us with
10:24:30 whatever documentation you may have to refute that.
10:24:35 And if we receive no response and any additional
10:24:42 investigations may occur to back up the initial
10:24:44 documentation, we would then route that through the
10:24:47 City Council, base include through a public hearing to
10:24:55 That's on the -- we have a 30, 60, 90-day suspension is
10:25:02 the final step.
10:25:03 Simultaneously, because we have this core team, if
10:25:07 there are other criminal issues observed, TPD follows
10:25:10 their normal course.
10:25:14 If there are other licensing state issues that come up
10:25:16 through those, investigations, and obviously if there's
10:25:21 any code enforcement violation was the property itself,
10:25:26 to take up through the normal course through the
10:25:30 This is what we implement currently.
10:25:34 It similar to other types of investigations that we do
10:25:36 as well, that we do have a process of the core team
10:25:40 that we deal with.
10:25:47 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I just followed that process, and it is
10:25:49 quite convoluted, and lengthy, and wouldn't it be
10:25:54 easier to post the conditions on the premise of the
10:26:03 special use, the conditions that the property owner
10:26:07 agreed to, so that let's say a police officer walks
10:26:13 into an establishment and can ask to see the conditions
10:26:19 that the land owner agreed to, and we on City Council
10:26:24 asked that it be on the site plan at that moment.
10:26:31 And I don't see how this process helps the
10:26:40 Because posting the conditions that were agreed upon in
10:26:44 order for special use of alcoholic beverage sales would
10:26:49 make it easier for everyone, and at that point I would
10:26:56 even consider a citation process rather than this
10:27:03 lengthy process that you just stated, because if they
10:27:07 are posted, everyone knows exactly what that land owner
10:27:11 agreed to in order to sell and serve alcoholic
10:27:22 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I have three responses to what was
10:27:24 just said.
10:27:26 I would disagree respectfully that the process is
10:27:31 There are very logical steps in the six steps that we
10:27:33 have to build a case.
10:27:34 Coming forward to City Council for suspension or
10:27:38 revocation. We have to have that type of
10:27:44 We have to put these people on notice to let them know
10:27:46 that violations may have occurred and that we are
10:27:48 documenting them.
10:27:49 That builds the case for you for when we bring it
10:27:52 forward to you for suspension.
10:27:54 The second point, and the proposed language that's
10:27:55 coming before you on March 10th.
10:27:57 It does include the requirements that any new permits
10:28:00 being issued are required to keep on-site a copy of the
10:28:04 site plan approved by City Council and a copy of the
10:28:06 So that is if you adopt the language on March 10th,
10:28:09 that will be part of the regulation.
10:28:14 The third point escapes me.
10:28:16 I apologize.
10:28:16 >> So you are saying that posting the -- we are looking
10:28:21 at compliance is key, because the reason that this all
10:28:28 came about was because in my district, I heard from
10:28:32 businesses that other businesses were not following the
10:28:38 So they get away with not following the rules while all
10:28:41 this process comes through, whereas if conditions were
10:28:45 posted, it would be immediate, immediate.
10:28:50 Then the process can start.
10:28:52 But at that point, I see this as a very simple solution
10:29:00 to something that is made very complex, and that is
10:29:04 they agree to the conditions.
10:29:08 They should not be opposed to posting.
10:29:11 And one of the reasons is, there was one incident where
10:29:13 the fire marshal, which is a life safety issue, the
10:29:18 condition was 120 capacity, right?
10:29:28 Our condition from City Council was 67.
10:29:32 No one knew that.
10:29:34 A police officer walks in there at midnight.
10:29:38 He needs to know what conditions this establishment
10:29:41 agreed to.
10:29:44 I believe we.
10:29:45 >> I believe we agree with you.
10:29:47 That's why it the proposed regulation.
10:29:49 >> So posting the conditions, you think, is a good
10:29:52 >> That's why I put it in there.
10:29:54 >>YVONNE CAPIN: You have it in here to post the
10:29:57 >>CATHERINE COYLE: It in the proposed regulations
10:29:59 coming before you on March 10, yes.
10:30:02 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
10:30:03 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The third point was about the
10:30:05 citation issue.
10:30:07 We did, in the last round of update to the citation
10:30:10 process, we did add in -- it might be a class 4
10:30:15 violation citation actually for selling without a
10:30:18 >> How are they going to post the conditions by having
10:30:22 the site plan on premise?
10:30:24 Is that what you are talking about?
10:30:26 >> They have to keep the ordinance and the site plan on
10:30:29 >> I'm talking about doing exactly what the fire
10:30:32 marshal does.
10:30:34 And it is at no cost to any business other than a
10:30:43 dollar frame that those conditions be posted.
10:30:45 These are the hours.
10:30:46 This is the capacity.
10:30:49 This is -- whatever the conditions are, it is listed,
10:30:54 one, two, three.
10:30:56 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I understand what you are saying.
10:30:59 The only thing is in a general site plan, it's a fairly
10:31:02 large document.
10:31:03 It contains many conditions related to that land and
10:31:05 Not just ours of operation and occupant load.
10:31:09 It does contain other conditions that may have to do
10:31:11 with the special use that you are granting that affect
10:31:14 the general site, and that's why the graphic is there
10:31:17 as well.
10:31:17 That's why they do have to keep the entire site plan
10:31:24 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Well, they can keep -- okay.
10:31:25 The information I was given when I asked in September
10:31:28 for -- I asked for conditions, violations, code
10:31:37 I asked for all kind of information, and it was brought
10:31:41 to me here.
10:31:45 And this is what can be posted.
10:31:47 It tells you on here when the date of the ordinance it
10:31:54 tells you their hours, it tells you their license, it
10:31:58 tells you their capacity, it tells you if they have had
10:32:02 any code enforcement violations on this piece of paper.
10:32:07 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That was a result of a very specific
10:32:10 request asking for the clarification, asking for hours
10:32:12 of operation.
10:32:12 That's the reason it was produced that way.
10:32:16 The conditions of your permit approval, though, are
10:32:18 across the entire body of that site plan.
10:32:21 That's why it's imperative they keep the entire site
10:32:24 plan on-site, because it all related.
10:32:28 It's not just necessarily two or three things.
10:32:31 >> We could certainly add the requirement that they
10:32:33 post hours and occupancy only in a separate document,
10:32:38 but the purpose of trying to figure out if there is a
10:32:39 true violation of that permit would be looking at that
10:32:42 entire site plan and all the conditions that apply to
10:32:45 I -- I would hate for them to have just one posting of
10:32:50 two things, occupant load or parking number or hours of
10:32:55 operation if there's another condition on the plan that
10:32:57 could in fact be a violation, and then it's missed in
10:33:02 the inspection.
10:33:02 That's why we are asking for the entire site plan to be
10:33:05 on-site, as well as the ordinance.
10:33:06 >> On the inspection.
10:33:10 So first of all, the inspection is done on complaint
10:33:22 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Correct.
10:33:22 >> How are they going to complain if they don't know
10:33:25 what violations were -- this is my point.
10:33:29 Let's make it user friendly, for the people who have to
10:33:34 live with this.
10:33:36 This alcoholic beverage is a privilege to sell.
10:33:42 We must make it so that law enforcement, the public,
10:33:48 can walk in and note, just like the fire marshal does,
10:33:54 know these are your conditions to sell alcoholic
10:33:59 >> I believe we are in agreement.
10:34:02 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I would like to see them posted.
10:34:04 I would like to see them posted so that it is on there,
10:34:10 and anyone can walk in and look at it.
10:34:13 That's what I think would be safe for the neighborhood.
10:34:18 This is what their concerns are that we do this.
10:34:25 We put conditions.
10:34:26 They agree to the conditions.
10:34:27 And then they are not adhered to, one.
10:34:33 Two, there are businesses that are following the rules,
10:34:37 and the ones that aren't hurt the businesses that are
10:34:39 following the rules.
10:34:40 Because when they come here before City Council, asking
10:34:42 to expand or to add to their business, we have the
10:34:47 neighborhoods coming up and saying, no, no, no, no,
10:34:50 this is, you know, I'm afraid, I'm afraid.
10:34:53 So we don't -- we are hurting the businesses that
10:34:57 follow the rules.
10:34:59 And the ones that are not complying are.
10:35:01 And the only way is complaint driven.
10:35:04 So I want to make it to where what they agreed to is
10:35:08 easy, very, very easy for them, for anyone to walk in
10:35:12 there and see what they had agreed to in order to sell
10:35:19 alcoholic beverages.
10:35:22 I hope that we can come up with some kind of a list.
10:35:30 There may be more conditions on the site plan as you
10:35:32 stated, but there's no reason why they can't be on
10:35:36 I just disagree, and I think -- and I do believe the
10:35:43 neighborhoods would be very much in favor of -- and I
10:35:46 have heard from them.
10:35:49 But this is something that would make them feel more
10:35:51 comfortable knowing that it just doesn't disappear.
10:35:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess my question at this point,
10:36:01 Cathy, what I thought I heard you say, they have to
10:36:05 have those on premises?
10:36:07 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes.
10:36:07 And if they are asked at inspection to produce those
10:36:10 and they don't, then that in itself is a violation.
10:36:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So my follow-up question then would be
10:36:15 to the TPD, to the police department, or to Jake,
10:36:21 whether they have had any problems relative to that in
10:36:23 the past, and how severe has it been to be that
10:36:27 particular point?
10:36:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just for clarification purposes, Ms.
10:36:31 Coyle, when you say having on the premises, that's not
10:36:35 a present requirement.
10:36:37 >>CATHERINE COYLE: It is not.
10:36:37 It's being added.
10:36:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So that is not --
10:36:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But it's coming this March 10th.
10:36:42 That's what I am saying.
10:36:43 We are voting on March 10th.
10:36:45 That's my point.
10:36:46 It's being added to the code.
10:36:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It will be.
10:36:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
10:36:50 On the 10th.
10:36:51 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
10:36:53 I just wanted to clarify that because this is a land
10:36:56 use as opposed to a licensed, land use permit with the
10:37:00 land, we can't alter the condition of previously issued
10:37:03 so this will apply to those issues.
10:37:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's correct, yes.
10:37:07 So Jake -- Tampa police?
10:37:17 >> Jake Slater, department of code enforcement and also
10:37:22 business tax.
10:37:23 Thank you for having me here this morning.
10:37:26 Since we first got this information back in November,
10:37:31 we did an inspection of the SoHo district from actually
10:37:35 Kennedy Boulevard south to Bayshore Boulevard.
10:37:39 That's about 25 or 28 overall type of establishments.
10:37:44 We discovered that everybody understood what the
10:37:48 requirements were for the particular location.
10:37:54 We didn't find any outrageous type of violations.
10:37:59 We had a couple of issues with signs, not being
10:38:04 actually visible, but overall inspections went very,
10:38:07 very well.
10:38:08 I think that the postings would help.
10:38:11 I just don't know about the size of the documents.
10:38:16 But in my experience, with alcohol inspections, I don't
10:38:18 think that that would be a good idea.
10:38:23 So we have over 1300 zones or locations in the City of
10:38:30 Tampa so it would probably take some time for the
10:38:33 businesses to actually post those.
10:38:36 But my experience, I think it would help us and also
10:38:41 Tampa PD, too.
10:38:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But we can also, only, from the
10:38:46 attorney, go forward, not retrospect, right?
10:38:49 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
10:38:50 Because this is a land use permit, running with the
10:38:52 land, this would be a condition that would apply ton
10:38:56 issues going forward.
10:38:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Going forward, yes.
10:39:18 >> Officer Don mill per, city much the police
10:39:27 As you know, council, one of the parts of my duty is
10:39:29 alcohol enforcement complaints.
10:39:31 I think Councilwoman Capin is right, when an officer
10:39:43 shows up for any complaint, 2:00 in the morning, lots
10:39:45 of times you get oh out there, and sometimes the
10:39:48 managers don't know where the alcoholic licenses are
10:39:51 even located.
10:39:51 So above and beyond that, which would be a great idea,
10:39:55 and I concur with Jake, also, right away you have got a
10:40:00 process where we can immediately take action rather
10:40:04 than it be drawn out.
10:40:05 So I think we are definitely on the right track, and
10:40:10 TPD is in agreement with that?
10:40:11 >> But again from a legal standpoint, as I understand,
10:40:14 and legal need to state it again because we don't want
10:40:16 to leave here thinking that all these 13 have to comply
10:40:23 with the posting as I understand.
10:40:25 We can only do this going forward.
10:40:26 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes, sir.
10:40:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm not an attorney.
10:40:30 I didn't go to Stetson law school.
10:40:31 But I listened to the attorney.
10:40:34 So clarify it again.
10:40:36 >>REBECCA KERT: The alcohol permits run with the land
10:40:39 so the ones that have been previously issued we cannot
10:40:41 at a later date add new conditions that they are to
10:40:44 operate under.
10:40:44 So this would apply to all future-issued permits.
10:40:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:41:01 >>YVONNE CAPIN: We have to start where somewhere.
10:41:02 And I believe this is where we begin to take alcoholic
10:41:05 beverage compliance under control.
10:41:10 And this is one way of doing it.
10:41:14 That would be expedient and be very helpful -- and as
10:41:21 was stated before to code enforcement and to law
10:41:26 So I will, after public comment, I will make my motion.
10:41:40 >> Just for your information, we take a copy of the
10:41:48 ordinance with us as a courtesy, and we hand out the
10:41:51 ordinance to the manager or the person who is in
10:41:54 charge, and we go over everything with them.
10:41:58 So as a courtesy.
10:42:01 And that's also worked out very, very well for us, too.
10:42:08 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Well, there's a perfect exam.
10:42:09 We may not be able to post it.
10:42:11 It can be posted going forward, but we can also have it
10:42:18 available -- well, code enforcement has it, but a
10:42:22 police -- officer walking in does not, and it will be
10:42:26 helpful to have the site plan.
10:42:29 But this site plan is going to be -- this is for Cathy
10:42:34 The site plan is on all the establishments.
10:42:38 The land use from before or going forward?
10:42:41 >>CATHERINE COYLE: It's only going forward.
10:42:42 >> Only going forward.
10:42:43 So this condition is the same as the one that I am
10:42:49 I mean, where we posted on a frame.
10:42:57 It's all going forward.
10:42:59 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes, yes.
10:43:00 If council so chooses to adopt on second reading the
10:43:03 ordinance that's coming forward on March 24th, the
10:43:05 second reading, then it would be effective April
10:43:09 Any approval after April 1st, they would have to
10:43:12 keep all of that information on-site.
10:43:14 I was getting back.
10:43:16 Just to restate that if you are looking into the
10:43:18 citation process, chapter 23.5, if you wanted to look
10:43:21 at that.
10:43:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
10:43:33 Anyone from the public wish to address council?
10:43:36 On this issue?
10:43:39 Mr. Ron Rotella.
10:43:41 >>RON ROTELLA: Westshore alliance.
10:43:42 As I understand the distinction here, I hear two
10:43:46 different things being said.
10:43:48 Ms. Capin is talking about posting.
10:43:51 And Cathy is saying on premise.
10:43:53 So it doesn't seem like the communicating -- there's a
10:43:59 big difference of a site plan which is a pretty
10:44:02 voluminous document with a lot of conditions on that
10:44:04 site plan available for anybody, and that's after April
10:44:09 1st to be available, but Cathy is not saying that's
10:44:13 going to be posted, that's going to be on the premise.
10:44:17 And you are saying you want something posted.
10:44:19 Doesn't sound like you guys are communicating.
10:44:28 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I am -- Mr. Rotella, I didn't
10:44:33 understand what you just said.
10:44:36 >>RON ROTELLA: Well, a site plan could be, and they
10:44:39 typically are with a lot of conditions on it.
10:44:41 You certainly wouldn't want that posted in the
10:44:45 The restaurant wouldn't want it either that would take
10:44:48 up a lot of space.
10:44:51 And I think that's what Cathy is saying, that site plan
10:44:57 with those conditions will be on the premises,
10:45:00 available to anybody, code enforcement or police
10:45:05 As I understand what you are saying, would you like to
10:45:08 see something posted.
10:45:09 Well, that's not what Cathy is saying.
10:45:12 The ordinance that will come back to you, I not going
10:45:15 to be posted.
10:45:16 It going to be on the premises available.
10:45:21 It would be pretty difficult to frame and post ab site
10:45:28 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yeah, that's not the site plan.
10:45:30 It's the conditions on the site plan.
10:45:35 The conditions, not the site plan.
10:45:38 >>RON ROTELLA: All the conditions or just the
10:45:40 conditions as far as occupancy?
10:45:49 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
10:45:49 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Let's go back to what an alcoholic
10:45:58 beverage zoning used to be.
10:46:00 It used to get a survey that showed a legal cut-out of
10:46:04 where you plan to serve alcoholic beverages.
10:46:07 And in the process of amending the code over the years,
10:46:11 it's now become -- and this is what Mr. Rotella was
10:46:14 referring to -- a full-blown site plan with design and
10:46:19 conditions including engineering, including access
10:46:23 points, that is not practical to begin posting in a
10:46:29 restaurant that has a very small business office.
10:46:32 And when you start adding layers of responsibility onto
10:46:37 this -- and remember you are not just talking about
10:46:40 corporate restaurants, you are talking about small mom
10:46:43 and pop restaurants, places that are family run, owned
10:46:48 and operated, and they are basically working 12, 14
10:46:51 hours a day.
10:46:52 When you start adding these conditions on, you are
10:46:57 padding Bern's that require -- burdens that require
10:47:01 costs for them to begin absorbing.
10:47:04 Most of these places can't afford to do that.
10:47:07 I mean, we all know that it's probably about 2 or 3% of
10:47:11 the establishments in the city that cause the problems.
10:47:15 But when you add these layers upon layers of
10:47:18 regulations, you are placing that burden on everyone,
10:47:21 not just the problem makers.
10:47:25 In addition to that, the code can't retroactively
10:47:28 address the businesses that cause the trouble.
10:47:32 So now you are asking everyone that comes in to begin
10:47:37 shouldering the burden for the problem makers that are
10:47:39 already there.
10:47:41 I would ask you to look carefully at these requirements
10:47:45 and make sure that they are not onerous, that if you
10:47:48 are asking to post simply the conditions on a sheet of
10:47:51 paper, eight and a half by eleven, that's one thing.
10:47:56 But if you are asking them to post the site plan and
10:47:58 all of the conditions associated with that, that's an
10:48:00 entirely different matter.
10:48:03 And in this process, we have asked you before to begin
10:48:07 looking at what you have done to alcoholic beverage
10:48:12 zonings, and now are special uses.
10:48:15 They have gone a long way away from the original
10:48:17 intent, which was an overlay on an existing approved
10:48:21 zoning classification.
10:48:25 And as you add these things, they become extremely
10:48:29 As it is now.
10:48:30 And we have talked to you about this before.
10:48:32 Your filing fees alone are $2,000.
10:48:36 Your engineering fees are another $2,000.
10:48:39 Your notices to property owners are another 200 or 300.
10:48:44 The site plans are another $2,000.
10:48:47 So before you even get anyone up to the podium whether
10:48:49 you are a small business or whether you are a corporate
10:48:51 restaurant, you spent 6 to $7,000.
10:48:56 And I urge to you look carefully at these fees.
10:48:59 You have people coming before you to tell you they
10:49:02 can't even afford to file.
10:49:05 So we have gone from a government and a process that
10:49:10 was serving restaurants to a fee-based operation that's
10:49:15 designed to subsidize the city government.
10:49:19 And now you are asking them to shoulder additional
10:49:22 I ask you to look very carefully at this before you
10:49:26 adopt it.
10:49:26 >> The initial burden -- and I have a question here,
10:49:31 Cathy, please.
10:49:36 The conditions could be posted, and the conditions that
10:49:38 the police and most of the people capacity hours is the
10:49:44 It could be listed, and then on that same list,
10:49:49 ingress, egress, site plan on premise.
10:49:55 It needs to be posted.
10:49:57 It really -- we can continue this for the next -- but
10:50:09 it needs to be listed.
10:50:10 It absolutely does.
10:50:12 I have heard over and over again, when people come, and
10:50:15 we have alcoholic beverage permitting, they are out
10:50:18 here, they are angry, they are upset, because they are
10:50:23 afraid that the conditions we have agreed to are not
10:50:26 being adhered to.
10:50:28 And that is a problem.
10:50:31 We can list these particular ones, and then ingress,
10:50:37 egress, whatever might be very lengthy on that list,
10:50:41 see site plan on premise.
10:50:44 It's really, really simple.
10:50:45 And how is that onerous when it is an eight by ten or
10:50:50 eleven frame that is one dollar to the business, to
10:50:55 something that they agreed to in order to get their
10:50:59 >> Just as a response, I was not the one saying it was
10:51:06 >> No, you're not.
10:51:09 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That's fine.
10:51:10 The requirement that was mentioned is to keep the site
10:51:12 plan on file, or on-site.
10:51:15 The first reading of these ordinances, this ordinance,
10:51:17 is March 10th.
10:51:20 I would suggest if there are some changes, we have
10:51:21 every right to be do that between first and second
10:51:25 You can suggest or direct a certain level of additional
10:51:28 language which we can discuss at that hearing.
10:51:30 Many people called me before this workshop to find out
10:51:33 if we were going to discuss the language, which I had
10:51:36 not planned to, because it weighs about enforcement
10:51:40 Just to clarify a couple points for Mr. Michelini,
10:51:45 although I'm not sure exactly where he was going with
10:51:48 the statements, but the proposed language is a reminder
10:51:52 we have been talking about since March of last year.
10:51:54 Many of the changes that are coming before you do allow
10:51:58 special use one, which is administrative, and the C
10:52:01 for -- fee is far less than the public hearing for
10:52:05 specific uses, between 700 and $800 versus the 2,000.
10:52:10 I just wanted to clarify that.
10:52:12 The fee will be going down if these classifications are
10:52:15 approved in administrative permits.
10:52:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, the last question, then we need
10:52:23 to move to our next workshop.
10:52:26 >>YVONNE CAPIN: All right.
10:52:26 I would like to move that we look at adding the
10:52:32 conditions being listed with the -- Cathy, with the
10:52:43 conditions ingress/egress, whatever they may be, that
10:52:48 are too lengthy, but what is pertinent top a police
10:52:51 officer, what is pertinent to be a code enforcement
10:52:54 officer, what is pertinent to a fireman, what is
10:52:57 pertinent to the public coming at a location, hours,
10:53:04 zoning, conditions that pertain to, and then I suggest
10:53:16 that we add, like you said, ingress, egress, see site
10:53:23 plan for things that too lengthy.
10:53:24 That would be your department where it would be.
10:53:27 Now, I would also like to add -- I would also like to
10:53:30 add that we look at a citation process for ...
10:53:48 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Currently we have under 23.5 a civil
10:53:51 citation for a violation of 27.5-21 which is selling
10:53:55 without a permit.
10:53:56 Just the general one.
10:53:57 If you go to an establishment that's selling and they
10:53:59 are they have no permit, a citation can be issued.
10:54:02 You are looking at potentially scanning for other
10:54:05 violations in that article in chapter 27.
10:54:09 >>YVONNE CAPIN: That's what I'm saying.
10:54:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, I'm just trying to understand now
10:54:12 when you said other violations.
10:54:16 You have that anyway, right?
10:54:18 You can do that now?
10:54:19 >> Not within the alcohol article, article 22.
10:54:23 We do have other articles in 27 that citation
10:54:26 conditions issued for, vehicle parking, tents, things
10:54:29 like that.
10:54:30 The only one within the alcoholic beverage article is
10:54:33 just selling without a permit.
10:54:36 So we would actually clarify.
10:54:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Wait a minute.
10:54:40 That can't -- you mean to tell me if there are
10:54:42 conditions, and they are in violation, they can't issue
10:54:45 a citation?
10:54:46 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
10:54:50 She's doing a very good job but I did want to clarify,
10:54:53 we do have a number of enforcement options.
10:54:56 We can cite them.
10:54:59 But the term citation is a permanent term of art.
10:55:04 That is the civil citation process.
10:55:06 But we can still find them in violation through code
10:55:08 enforcement or even through criminal, in addition to
10:55:11 the ability to revoke or suspend.
10:55:13 So I didn't want it to come out that we do not have any
10:55:16 enforcement options.
10:55:17 We have a separate enforcement option, but we certainly
10:55:19 could look at adding the civil citation process over to
10:55:23 the civil court or they pay the fine.
10:55:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:55:31 >>CATHERINE COYLE: To clarify, that's what I was
10:55:32 speaking, civil citation, an immediate ticket.
10:55:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
10:55:37 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: A business has to have an exit
10:55:44 sign wherever there is an exit.
10:55:45 It has to be lit.
10:55:47 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I would imagine so.
10:55:50 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Who can answer that?
10:55:51 Mr. Slater?
10:55:54 Cowl Coyle either fire --
10:55:56 >> Jake Slater, code enforcement.
10:55:58 It could be the fire marshal's office, sir.
10:56:00 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: That's their requirement to
10:56:05 >> Yes, sir.
10:56:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: So do we need a map on the wall
10:56:09 to show where they are -- are they going to run to the
10:56:12 map first or look to the lit exit sign?
10:56:16 >> I would probably say they would look for the exit
10:56:19 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I think we are complicating
10:56:24 things here by adding more government on top of
10:56:27 It's tough enough for these small businesses to stay
10:56:31 People who are not in business putting all these things
10:56:34 onto these small businesses is killing them.
10:56:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:56:38 Did you make a motion?
10:56:39 Is that a motion?
10:56:42 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes, I did.
10:56:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The issue is, is there a second to
10:56:48 your motion?
10:56:50 Is there a second to the motion?
10:56:52 Is there a second to the motion?
10:56:54 So then it dies for lack of a second.
10:57:05 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Can I address that?
10:57:06 We have sat here, and we have community gardens worried
10:57:13 about people selling lettuce at a community garden, but
10:57:20 it cannot be enforced, taking it from an S-1 to an S-2.
10:57:24 We are talking alcoholic beverage.
10:57:40 It is sad.
10:57:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:57:43 For the record, again, when you come back on the
10:57:46 10th, there's a process in that ordinance whereby
10:57:51 it is required that they have the conditions on
10:57:55 premise, so that anybody can walk into that
10:57:57 establishment and ask for that.
10:57:59 Is that correct?
10:58:00 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The site plan on the ordinance.
10:58:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Going forward, going forward.
10:58:05 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Correct.
10:58:05 Just to clarify --
10:58:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the site plan will have conditions.
10:58:10 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes.
10:58:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So John Q. public can walk into an
10:58:13 establishment and look at the site plan.
10:58:20 >>CATHERINE COYLE: If the person shows it to them.
10:58:21 I don't know that John qualified Public has the right
10:58:24 to demand it.
10:58:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then I guess then from legal the site
10:58:30 plan is on premise, and it's on premise for who?
10:58:41 >> Just to remind everyone that anyone from the public
10:58:45 can come to the city and get a copy of it.
10:58:48 I mean, it certainly available to them.
10:58:50 But this would be available on premises and available
10:58:53 certainly to city staff when looking to enforce any of
10:58:58 the conditions.
10:59:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:59:03 Any other questions?
10:59:06 Anyone from the public wish to address council?
10:59:10 We just took public testimony.
10:59:12 Let's move to our next item, which is the, an hour
10:59:18 behind time, 10:00 item.
10:59:23 We'll take up now -- can't leave, can't leave.
10:59:27 We'll take up now the homelessness issue.
10:59:32 We have invited all of our partners, the homeless
10:59:37 coalition, Metropolitan Ministries, Salvation Army,
10:59:41 Catholic charity, and the county.
10:59:42 We have ab lengthy letter from Mike marrow from the
10:59:49 county who sent a letter saying that his staff would
10:59:51 not participate because they are in the process of
10:59:55 preparing an extensive report to present to the board
10:59:59 of county commission in their workshop on the 30th
11:00:02 of March.
11:00:03 And he did not want to -- he didn't feel comfortable
11:00:07 with them coming and discussing those provisions
11:00:09 without first completing it and then going to the
11:00:12 county commission.
11:00:14 So I have a copy of that letter from him.
11:00:15 It is a two-page letter expressing why the county could
11:00:20 not participate.
11:00:23 Again they are going through the process now of
11:00:26 developing a quite extensive plan that will be
11:00:32 presented to the bettered of county commissioners on
11:00:34 the 30th, in their workshop, and say a lot of work
11:00:38 remains undone, he did not want them really to come
11:00:41 over and discuss that plan without first completing it,
11:00:44 and then going to the county commission.
11:00:48 So who all here -- I see the homeless coalition here,
11:00:55 is there somebody from Salvation Army?
11:00:57 Salvation Army is here.
11:00:58 Catholic charity?
11:01:00 Housing Authority?
11:01:01 So we will allow each of you five minutes to present.
11:01:03 I understand there may be some PowerPoint presentation
11:01:07 as well.
11:01:07 So whoever wants to come may come now.
11:01:09 >> Mr. Chair, members of the council, thank you for
11:01:14 allowing us to come today to speak with you regarding
11:01:17 homelessness in the community.
11:01:20 It's -- today's workshop is to discuss the issues of
11:01:25 homelessness which have been raised in prior
11:01:27 discussions, and the council was seeking information
11:01:29 about homelessness in Tampa and Hillsborough County,
11:01:33 what is currently being done to work with shelters and
11:01:35 housing services and outreach in our community, and how
11:01:40 our homeless services are addressing panhandling
11:01:42 issues, and the homeless coalition's member and partner
11:01:46 recommendations to the council.
11:01:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name again for the record.
11:01:49 >> Sorry about that.
11:01:54 Rayme Nuckles, 2105 north Nebraska.
11:01:57 Woo we previously requested a packet of our last five
11:02:02 quarters activity of reports.
11:02:03 We provided that to you so you did have quite a lot to
11:02:06 have review before today.
11:02:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
11:02:09 Quite extensive.
11:02:10 >> The homeless coalitions row, we are the designated
11:02:16 lead agency by the U.S. department of housing and urban
11:02:18 development, the State of Florida, Hillsborough County,
11:02:23 and the City of Tampa, to coordinate the homeless
11:02:26 continuum of care.
11:02:27 We do this by educating the community and all the
11:02:29 stakeholders about homelessness and our homeless
11:02:33 We coordinate planning with current programs and new
11:02:36 programs and work on our existing plan to end
11:02:39 homelessness with the resources and supports when they
11:02:42 are made available.
11:02:48 We have already discussed who the presenters will be
11:02:51 So let me talk to you a little bit about the success
11:02:53 that we have had, and then I will talk about some of
11:02:55 the unmet need.
11:02:56 And then all the other individuals, we'll talk to you a
11:03:00 little bit about different components of what they are
11:03:02 doing and their specific organizations, and address
11:03:06 specific needs as well.
11:03:11 Annually from the state the coalition is very
11:03:14 successful with our grant applications.
11:03:17 All of our funding that we receive from the state is
11:03:21 Normally, we bring in around $850,000, and 750 of that
11:03:27 is for capital each year.
11:03:30 In cooperation with the City of Tampa, over the last
11:03:33 year and a half --
11:03:40 >> CHAIRMAN SCOTT: (off microphone)
11:03:43 >> Rehab and new construction.
11:03:46 >> rehab.
11:03:49 New construction.
11:03:52 >> It specifically has to be for that, yes.
11:03:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Sorry to cut you off.
11:04:01 Go ahead.
11:04:01 >> That's okay.
11:04:03 Just wanted to be sure I talk about some of the
11:04:06 successes and the unmet needs.
11:04:09 Rapid rehousing was started in collaboration with be
11:04:12 the city approximately nine months ago.
11:04:14 Within nine months all of the funds were obligated.
11:04:17 Therefore individuals who are living on the streets or
11:04:19 those families who needed assistance in our community
11:04:21 did not have access because we obligated over $2
11:04:25 million in nine months.
11:04:30 We worked very closely with Tampa family health
11:04:33 centers, mental health care, metropolitan charity,
11:04:39 outreach for life.
11:04:40 That goes out into the community, working with
11:04:42 individuals in the community, gets them connected to
11:04:44 all the services, and housing support services.
11:04:49 We have been very successful, and our continuum of care
11:04:53 application to housing development.
11:04:56 When I came on as CEO of this organization, the
11:04:59 coalition was receiving about $2.5 million in federal
11:05:01 funding from the continuum of care.
11:05:04 We are now just shy of $5 million a year.
11:05:08 And this is a competitive application, and we always
11:05:13 rank very high on those ranking scoring process.
11:05:18 We always worked to meet all the goals and action sets
11:05:22 in that process as well.
11:05:26 And we exceed all of the federal standard.
11:05:29 Now let talk about the need in the community.
11:05:32 In 2009 we had nearly 10,000 homeless men and women and
11:05:35 children, and that did not include those who were
11:05:37 doubled up at the time.
11:05:39 For the community, you here a lot from the community
11:05:42 and people say, well, just go to those local
11:05:45 organizations because of their services.
11:05:50 There's only one emergency shelter or transitional
11:05:52 housing for every six people who are homeless in our
11:05:57 There's only 62 supportive housing beds for the nearly
11:06:01 600 chronic homeless persons in our community.
11:06:04 So that's one in ten.
11:06:13 Only 73% of the homeless persons who are accessing
11:06:18 permanent housing are able to stay in the housing
11:06:20 because of the downturn in the economy.
11:06:23 Many of those individuals over the last year have lost
11:06:26 their jobs.
11:06:26 We went from 79% last year to 73%.
11:06:30 We still exceeded the federal guidelines but because
11:06:39 it's difficult for individuals to stay permanently
11:06:43 Hundreds of thousands of people need prevention in
11:06:46 They can't get them because the homeless prevention and
11:06:48 rapid rehousing funds were expended so rapidly.
11:06:54 And let me address a myth that is often portrayed in
11:06:59 our community, that people come here because of warm
11:07:03 weather or warm area.
11:07:05 When we conducted in 2009, 88% of the homeless
11:07:11 individuals who were surveyed said they became homeless
11:07:15 in Hillsborough County and they had lived here for more
11:07:18 than a year.
11:07:21 Those are some of the statistics that we are dealing
11:07:24 with in our community when we are talking about some of
11:07:27 the unmet needs.
11:07:29 For emergency shelter, so the community understands, we
11:07:33 only have 349 emergency shelter beds for families and
11:07:39 We have 785 transitional housing beds in this
11:07:45 We have 25 safe haven beds for individuals who have a
11:07:50 mental illness.
11:07:53 (Bell sounds)
11:07:55 And permanent supporting housing beds, we have 682.
11:08:06 >>CURTIS STOKES: What was the total homeless population
11:08:07 in '09?
11:08:09 >> 10,000.
11:08:10 We just completed the 2011 count and we are tabulating
11:08:14 those result now, and we hope to provide those by May
11:08:19 And I know I have got five minute so I am going to turn
11:08:23 it over to Tim Morris and allow him to address some of
11:08:27 the issues.
11:08:27 >> How do you qualify to get one of the beds from
11:08:38 emergency shelter or transitional housing?
11:08:40 You do have to be homeless and living on the streets,
11:08:46 or doubled up and living with another family member
11:08:51 because you don't necessarily have the means to pay for
11:08:53 it on your own.
11:08:55 Could be a victim of domestic violence also looking for
11:09:02 >>GWEN MILLER: You have more than you could
11:09:03 possibly -- how do you determine who get what?
11:09:06 >> All of our providers in the community have a waiting
11:09:09 >>GWEN MILLER: So you put them on a waiting list?
11:09:14 >> Correct.
11:09:15 >>GWEN MILLER: When the vacancy comes you move them
11:09:17 >> Yes.
11:09:17 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Ray me.
11:09:26 Can you give us, for the 10,000 homeless, and -- can
11:09:30 you do the math for us and tell us when you talked
11:09:32 about how many beds, if you just added them all up for
11:09:36 the different categories?
11:09:39 Curtis already did it.
11:09:41 So --
11:09:43 >> A little over 2,000 beds.
11:09:46 >> So there's 8,000 that have nowhere to sleep?
11:09:52 >> Correct.
11:09:53 >>MARY MULHERN: Then my other question was, I know
11:09:57 that you finished the 2011 homeless census, and I'm
11:10:03 wondering when you will have some data from that to
11:10:06 tell us, you know.
11:10:10 Did I miss that?
11:10:12 So we'll invite you back.
11:10:13 >> Not a problem.
11:10:19 >>CURTIS STOKES: What's the cost to live in the
11:10:20 homeless shelter in the evening?
11:10:21 Is there a cost associated with it?
11:10:24 >> Each provider has their own stipulation on how they
11:10:27 operate their facility.
11:10:28 So the homeless coalition doesn't necessarily get
11:10:32 involved in that specific process.
11:10:34 >> Have you heard of a cost associated with living in a
11:10:38 homeless shelter?
11:10:41 >> Salvation Army gets five free natures, and he can
11:10:47 address that.
11:10:48 But after that they are required to pay.
11:10:49 >> So on any given night, we have about 8 that you
11:10:52 homeless individuals living under the bridge, in the
11:10:56 streets, in the community?
11:10:57 >> Correct.
11:11:02 >>CURTIS STOKES: Okay.
11:11:03 And that's 12% unemployment.
11:11:06 Doing some quick math.
11:11:09 All right, thanks
11:11:10 >> what is the cost?
11:11:15 >> I don't have that with me but I can provide it to
11:11:17 you at a later time.
11:11:20 >>CURTIS STOKES: And I'm sorry, what's your budget,
11:11:27 >> The total budget?
11:11:28 Talking about the pass through?
11:11:31 About $4 million.
11:11:32 >> So you are a $4 million organization.
11:11:35 700,000 goes to beds?
11:11:37 >> Correct.
11:11:42 Well, our budgets are more difficult to explain to you
11:11:45 than just that specific component, because some of the
11:11:48 beds that I'm talking to you about is through the
11:11:52 continuum of care, which those funds don't pass through
11:11:56 They are contracted directly with the local
11:12:00 For instance, the Housing Authority operates -- it very
11:12:08 similar to the housing choice voucher.
11:12:12 >>CURTIS STOKES: So Housing Authority?
11:12:14 >> It comes through housing -- it's part of the $5
11:12:18 million grant.
11:12:21 We are the coordinator and convener of that proceeds
11:12:27 It's not necessarily money that we get at the
11:12:29 >> That's not part of our total budget.
11:12:37 >> So your total budget is 5 million, roughly.
11:12:45 750 goes to beds.
11:12:47 How much goes to outreach?
11:12:59 >> There's one that works through mental health care,
11:13:01 and it around $800,000 for outreach.
11:13:07 >> There's 3.8 million somewhere.
11:13:11 Where does that go?
11:13:12 >> Other components there are that help fund --
11:13:18 >> So you are a conduit agency for alpha house,
11:13:23 Salvation Army?
11:13:26 >> Right.
11:13:26 Agency for community treatment services.
11:13:30 And there's nine specific organizations with 24
11:13:35 different programs that are funded through that
11:13:38 And they will pay for transitional housing and
11:13:43 supportive housing, and the outreach.
11:13:45 >>GWEN MILLER: How many homeless people are soliciting
11:13:56 for money on the right?
11:13:59 Do you know that?
11:14:01 >> This year, when we conducted the 2011 count, it was
11:14:06 the first time we had ever asked the question about
11:14:09 So we won't be able to have that answer until then
11:14:14 We don't ask that question when someone goes into one
11:14:18 of the facilities, the data management system.
11:14:21 >> They could be making out there soliciting,
11:14:28 panhandling, but you just don't know it?
11:14:29 >> Correct.
11:14:32 >>CURTIS STOKES: What is the general consensus?
11:14:34 >> General consensus of?
11:14:37 >>CURTIS STOKES: Well, when the question was asked --
11:14:39 I'm sorry.
11:14:40 When the question was asked during the homeless count,
11:14:42 what was the general consensus?
11:14:44 Was that exit poll?
11:14:49 >> Again, we are going to over 15,000 interviews that
11:14:53 took place that day to tabulate that.
11:14:55 >> The reason I ask that, because I thought during the
11:14:59 panhandling discussion, the statement was made that
11:15:02 most people that are homeless aren't panhandling.
11:15:05 >> I can refer back to the two we conducted on
11:15:15 panhandling, which there was a couple of issues with
11:15:18 regard to panhandling with regard to the survey.
11:15:22 And that specific survey we developed in our office to
11:15:26 address the issues of were they coming from another
11:15:30 community here?
11:15:34 >>CURTIS STOKES: Right.
11:15:35 >> And I believe it was 80% of those had lived here in
11:15:40 Hillsborough County and were not from another
11:15:43 And had not been panhandling in another community.
11:15:55 >>CURTIS STOKES: I'm trying to get my arms around 8,000
11:16:04 8,000 individuals or families out in the community.
11:16:06 That's a lot of people.
11:16:07 >> It is.
11:16:11 And it's gone up every year since 2002, 2001.
11:16:15 >> And most of them aren't panhandlers.
11:16:19 Panhandlers, when they finish their shift, they have
11:16:21 somewhere else to two, I mean, to a home?
11:16:24 >> That's not something that we ask in that survey.
11:16:27 And I can't answer that.
11:16:28 I'm sorry.
11:16:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So in essence you really don't know,
11:16:33 what I am hearing, we you really don't know based on
11:16:36 what you ask that the people that are out in the
11:16:38 right-of-way, out soliciting, may or may not be
11:16:43 >> Is survey that we did for the count was the first
11:16:49 time we ever asked a question about panhandling.
11:16:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A follow-up.
11:16:54 And I heard you say, 88% of the homelessness in
11:16:58 Hillsborough County is a result of those who live here
11:17:03 >> Correct.
11:17:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And did not necessarily come from
11:17:05 somewhere else, have been here at least a year, on a
11:17:08 job, right?
11:17:10 >> Right.
11:17:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So I guess got laid off.
11:17:14 >> Or something happened in their family and they
11:17:17 became homeless.
11:17:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And 88%, that's a huge number.
11:17:23 >> And you are getting the vast understanding of what
11:17:31 we have providers, or these individuals, that providers
11:17:34 deal with on a daily basis.
11:17:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I guess the question then goes
11:17:40 back, because I went through this when I was on the
11:17:43 county commission with the Hillsborough help plan
11:17:48 because you had to have ID in order to qualify for that
11:17:52 So then of this 8800 people -- 88% of the homeless, do
11:18:00 they have ID to qualify for social services program in
11:18:05 the county?
11:18:10 Well, the county would include the city.
11:18:13 In your survey two weeks ago, three weeks ago, did
11:18:19 these people have identification?
11:18:23 >> Another question that's not in the survey.
11:18:25 So I can't specifically answer that, because the
11:18:28 survey -- we have to limit the survey.
11:18:30 Otherwise, we would not be able to count 10,000 people
11:18:33 in a day.
11:18:34 >> But you did point out that 88% of the people of that
11:18:41 you counted are resident of Hillsborough County.
11:18:46 >> Right.
11:18:46 >> How do you know that?
11:18:48 >> That is a conversation that we have when we are
11:18:51 doing a survey with them.
11:18:53 We don't actually ask them for their ID.
11:18:58 We ask them where they live, what their zip code is,
11:19:01 and that's how we determine what the number is.
11:19:04 >> You do know that Hillsborough County social service
11:19:08 agency, that there is a system -- assistance available
11:19:12 but they have to have ID.
11:19:14 I know they can get utility payment, get rental
11:19:21 There's assistance available but they have to prove
11:19:25 >> Correct.
11:19:26 >> Let me follow up.
11:19:32 So you are saying they do not have to have
11:19:34 So anyone --
11:19:36 >> No, I am not saying they don't have to have
11:19:39 I was just clarifying that is correct when we do the
11:19:41 survey, to tabulate the count, we don't ask them for
11:19:45 their ID.
11:19:47 So when they come to you, they have to have
11:19:50 >> Yes.
11:19:51 In order to get service.
11:19:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Now you are saying that the majority is
11:19:55 from Hillsborough County.
11:19:57 Have you ever done a survey to see how many come from
11:20:01 St. Pete and other places? Have you ever done a survey
11:20:04 to see how many are coming over here that's not really
11:20:07 living in Tampa?
11:20:08 >> When we conduct our biannual account, we ask how
11:20:14 long they have lived here, and then we also ask where
11:20:17 they had come from.
11:20:18 So we collect different states.
11:20:25 We don't necessarily collect the city.
11:20:27 We also ask the zip code.
11:20:29 Some people know the zip code.
11:20:30 Some people do not.
11:20:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go ahead.
11:20:36 I'm sorry.
11:20:37 You raise more questions.
11:20:38 >>MARY MULHERN: I think we shouldn't get confused
11:20:41 between talking about the census.
11:20:43 I mean, doing a census of the homeless is a very
11:20:47 difficult thing.
11:20:48 And it's all done by volunteers.
11:20:51 And you have to approach people on the street or at a
11:20:57 service place where they are getting services, or
11:21:00 sleeping, and you have to ask them questions.
11:21:03 A lot of people don't even want to answer questions.
11:21:06 And to get through, to find out any real data, it takes
11:21:11 a fair amount of time.
11:21:12 You are not going to ask them for ID when you are doing
11:21:15 a census.
11:21:16 They probably walk away and say, I don't have time.
11:21:19 You are just trying to ask people why they are where
11:21:22 they are, and it's difficult for those people to even
11:21:25 answer this, because you are approaching them, a
11:21:27 stranger on the street, and asking them questions about
11:21:31 their life, which is obviously pretty difficult.
11:21:36 But I participated in this, as I think Councilwoman
11:21:41 Capin did, too, volunteer with the census, and other
11:21:45 people, and I did it two years ago, and this year was
11:21:49 different, and we did actually approach people who were
11:21:53 panhandling, who were soliciting on the streets.
11:21:56 And I don't know if you even did that in twine because
11:22:00 you were just going to centers where you knew there
11:22:03 were homeless people or on the street.
11:22:05 Is that correct?
11:22:05 >> Correct.
11:22:06 >> So this will be the first time that they will even
11:22:09 have an opportunity to find out if the homeless, now,
11:22:13 how many of the homeless people there in the county are
11:22:17 actually soliciting.
11:22:18 So I can tell you from my four hours I spent doing
11:22:22 this, I did talk Tosh some people who were panhandling,
11:22:24 and they were homeless, or were staying with family or
11:22:29 friends, which is kind of, now, if you are sleeping on
11:22:33 someone's couch, does that mean you're homeless?
11:22:36 So I think at least some of the panhandlers are
11:22:43 But there's not going to be data until they are able to
11:22:45 compile it all P.
11:22:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And I understand what you are saying.
11:22:49 But my point, though, is that there is assistance
11:22:56 available for those -- assistance for those who are
11:22:58 homeless if they have proper ID required by
11:23:00 Hillsborough County.
11:23:02 Is that accurate?
11:23:02 >> That is accurate.
11:23:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's my point.
11:23:04 If they have ID, that there is assistance available,
11:23:09 even for the health care program.
11:23:11 >> But keep in mind that people have to go and stand in
11:23:17 line at 5:00 in the morning and they may not even get
11:23:20 seen that day.
11:23:21 We are trying to help you understand the unmet need in
11:23:23 the community, and the capacity of the organization.
11:23:27 And the services that -- they are doing a great job.
11:23:32 It just everyone has capacity issues right now because
11:23:35 the need is so great.
11:23:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And I understand that.
11:23:42 Almost anywhere you go -- and there's a large number --
11:23:45 you have to stand in line.
11:23:47 I mean, even you have got to turn folk away because you
11:23:50 said you don't have enough beds S.that accurate?
11:23:53 >> There are people that get turned away every day.
11:23:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So no matter where they go, the
11:23:57 potential is they may get turned away, whether it's the
11:24:00 county, the homeless coalition, Salvation Army.
11:24:03 If you are at capacity, if you are at capacity, you
11:24:08 can't take anybody else in.
11:24:09 Is that right?
11:24:09 >> Correct.
11:24:10 >> And going to the question earlier, if there are 88%
11:24:17 of the people that are Hillsborough County resident
11:24:21 based on what Mr. Nuckles just said, then 12% is coming
11:24:24 from somewhere else then.
11:24:25 Is that safe to assume that?
11:24:27 >> Yes.
11:24:28 >> Okay.
11:24:31 >>CURTIS STOKES: I have a quick question.
11:24:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
11:24:34 Last question for you.
11:24:36 [ Laughter ]
11:24:39 >> Thank you.
11:24:40 The gentleman from New Tampa yielded me one of his
11:24:43 So the homeless issue and the panhandling issue are two
11:24:47 mutually exclusive things, right?
11:24:49 >> From the way we see it, yes.
11:24:50 >> So panhandling is not homelessness.
11:24:55 He said panhandling as though it's ab vending -- they
11:25:00 are like vendors, like the hotdog guy in the median, in
11:25:03 the right-of-way outside of the building.
11:25:07 This is a Rebecca Kert question, I suppose.
11:25:09 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
11:25:16 >>CURTIS STOKES: So panhandling is in the right-of-way
11:25:20 is similar to -- Randy says it's not a homeless issue,
11:25:24 it's a vending issue.
11:25:26 So panhandling is similar to the hotdog cart guy
11:25:31 outside this building, right?
11:25:32 In a way?
11:25:34 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
11:25:40 I'm not sure I necessarily agree with that statement.
11:25:42 I believe panhandle is a separate issue.
11:25:44 Panhandling can occur anywhere in the city and it
11:25:46 between one person and another person.
11:25:48 Regardless of where those people are located and it
11:25:51 basically asking for something in return for little or
11:25:54 >> The ordinances that have come before you recently
11:25:59 that the city currently has on our books deals with
11:26:03 some places called street vending.
11:26:05 So it is vending, and it is vending -- it is a
11:26:09 transaction between a pedestrian and a motor vehicle.
11:26:12 That is a public safety issue.
11:26:14 Panhandling may be street vending, but it doesn't have
11:26:17 to be.
11:26:18 It can occur anywhere.
11:26:19 So they are really separate subjects.
11:26:21 The ordinance is that you have on your books, the
11:26:23 ordinances that you have been discussing, the ordinance
11:26:25 that the county was discussing, and the ordinance that
11:26:28 St. Pete was discussing was not a ban on panhandling.
11:26:32 It was regulating street vending.
11:26:34 >> So street vending, and these gays are getting
11:26:41 tax-free income, is it a tax issue then?
11:26:44 >> I'm not sure I'm equipped to answer that question.
11:26:53 I mean, I am not aware if they are paying taxes.
11:26:57 I am not aware of what taxes it would be if it was a
11:27:00 charitable donation.
11:27:01 >> Because if they are vending they should be held to
11:27:03 same standard as if they were the business tax,
11:27:06 occupational license, as everyone else?
11:27:09 >> Yes, if they are vending, we actually have a
11:27:16 business tax.
11:27:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But that's not always the case.
11:27:20 It's not always the case.
11:27:21 There are those that you know when you pull up to an
11:27:25 unit section that they have water, they have food, and
11:27:29 you know what they are doing.
11:27:32 Now whether they report taxes on that, I don't know.
11:27:35 But then there are those who just have a vest on with a
11:27:38 sign saying, "I'm homeless," or "I'm a veteran,"
11:27:45 whatever, "God bless, give whatever you can," whatever
11:27:48 that means.
11:27:54 Come on.
11:28:00 Yes, sir.
11:28:00 >> Morris Hintzman, Metropolitan Ministries, North
11:28:13 Florida Avenue.
11:28:14 Thank you, council, for making this time.
11:28:16 For the homeless.
11:28:19 I'm going to dwell a little bit more on just what we
11:28:23 are doing as a part of the bigger puzzle.
11:28:27 Our numbers are folded into what Rayme has talked
11:28:31 about, and we --
11:28:34 >> Inclusive of what he said.
11:28:36 >> Yes, they are inside of his numbers.
11:28:39 You know, it interesting 40 years ago -- and I'll talk
11:28:42 to that document in a minute.
11:28:48 40 years ago we were organized to do this very thing,
11:28:50 to deal with homeless people that are found on the
11:28:56 And during those 40 years, we have grown to a place
11:29:01 where we saw the only way to deal with it is
11:29:06 Only way.
11:29:08 And we could try to run off and do it by ourselves, but
11:29:11 there's enough resource -- not enough resources, not
11:29:14 enough capacity top possibly do that.
11:29:16 So we embraced partnerships, not only in terms of
11:29:23 private entities, but congregations, government
11:29:30 entities, the corporate community were just begging
11:29:36 trying to bring all of the resources to bear at least
11:29:38 on the portion that we have accepted responsibility
11:29:43 You know, it's interesting that the faces on the street
11:29:48 have a big story to tell, and those of you that
11:29:51 participated in the count found out that these are real
11:29:57 There's real issues.
11:29:58 And some are so grand and big that even those of us
11:30:02 that have been involved almost seem that they are
11:30:09 They represent beyond the disabled, emotionally,
11:30:14 mentally handicapped, and the fastest growing
11:30:18 population, probably the most does tushing, are
11:30:22 families with small children.
11:30:26 On a daily basis, Metropolitan Ministries sees about
11:30:31 150 families, or people -- mostly families that come to
11:30:34 our door looking for some kind of support.
11:30:38 Many of them are simply trying to stay in their home,
11:30:41 trying to get by.
11:30:43 And then there is about 15 a day that are asking for a
11:30:48 room, trying to find a room.
11:30:53 They have been searching for some for days, some for
11:30:59 We have a capacity of 45 rooms on North Florida Avenue.
11:31:06 We have 12 more that are transitional-type housing
11:31:12 called the sanctuary on Waters.
11:31:14 We have another six units that are also transitional,
11:31:19 people that have come through the Florida Avenue
11:31:22 campus, and have moved to self-sufficiency and then can
11:31:27 move on to these transitional facilities where they pay
11:31:31 rent, and we begin to encourage them and strengthen
11:31:35 them so they can move out on their own eventually into
11:31:37 their own place.
11:31:40 On a daily basis, one of our key components that does
11:31:46 apply to those who panhandle is for food.
11:31:54 We are big into maching sure that food is available,
11:31:56 and available within some proximity.
11:31:59 You look at that particular map that I gave you, and
11:32:02 you can see how many places we are, where food is
11:32:08 available on most of them on a daily basis.
11:32:12 Also, I have shown you a list there of the different
11:32:15 groups that we partner with who actually serve the
11:32:21 Metropolitan Ministries raises all the food, cooks all
11:32:23 the food, put it in, and those partners that you see
11:32:28 come pick up those cambros, and they serve to the
11:32:35 whatever number of people that are hungry in that
11:32:38 particular pocket of our community.
11:32:40 And most of our homeless populations.
11:32:45 We have 27 partners.
11:32:46 And you will see we are in four counties.
11:32:48 And the only reason we are in four counties is that we
11:32:51 have been invited in there, and those particular
11:32:55 counties fund that portion of whatever the feeding is
11:33:01 so it's not a burden to Hillsborough County or to
11:33:07 We see on a monthly basis 55 people who require or ask
11:33:11 for help in getting ID or birth certificates.
11:33:14 Just this one agency.
11:33:17 We also have a metro outfitters store where we do
11:33:21 everything we can to at least put some good walking
11:33:26 ware under the homeless and get them proper clothing,
11:33:30 and during of course the cold night and so forth making
11:33:34 sure blankets and coats are made available.
11:33:39 We are responsible for 2.2 million meals a year in this
11:33:43 community, not only for the over half million of people
11:33:47 who do not have a place to live but the other million
11:33:52 and a half two toward the people who live in our
11:33:55 program as well as the 30,000 families who come to us
11:33:59 every year and ask for help in groceries, clothes for
11:34:05 their kids, referrals, whatever.
11:34:08 And that may sound like a large number, but we have to
11:34:11 always bring it back to that one person at a time.
11:34:15 And loop into their face and hear their story.
11:34:20 And I just met yesterday as I do often with the
11:34:24 families, and had eye heart attack, a nine year old,
11:34:30 eleven-year-old, and eventually lost or income, spent
11:34:35 all of her savings and could not take care of herself
11:34:39 because she was on disability condition, lost her home,
11:34:43 lived in her car for three weeks before we found her.
11:34:51 A nine-year-old and eleven school.
11:34:52 They went to school.
11:34:54 And when they were off school they may go to the
11:34:56 library and hang out just to get them out of the car.
11:34:59 That's deplorable.
11:35:00 But then when it came to us, we did not have room.
11:35:07 We had a waiting list of 45 days for most people.
11:35:10 We have 45 people, families on our waiting list.
11:35:13 So what we do is we try to get them, as Rayme said,
11:35:18 tray to work with other age sis or other groups or with
11:35:22 a family or whatever to try to keep most of them under
11:35:26 a roof somewhere, and when all else fails, then we
11:35:29 raise the money to pay rent for a motel and get them in
11:35:32 a motel.
11:35:33 I will not put a child at risk on a street.
11:35:37 And one of the things I said to Annette, I said, what
11:35:41 did you feel at night?
11:35:44 And she says, well, I couldn't sleep.
11:35:47 I had to stay awake all night, even inside the car.
11:35:50 I had to stay awake because I was worried.
11:35:53 I feared for my children.
11:35:55 And I'm saying, those are specified that the families
11:36:04 So I would be happy -- I have more things I could
11:36:09 share, but if you have any questions, I will be happy
11:36:11 to respond.
11:36:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Talk to me about your meals, and is
11:36:15 that one meal a day, is that three meals a day, is that
11:36:19 two meals a day?
11:36:21 >> I think the chart will show breakfast, lunch and
11:36:26 You will see about -- in some cases, the proximity of
11:36:34 these meal site partners, they might get a lunch at one
11:36:39 meal site partner and get a dinner at another meal site
11:36:42 partner if they are in close proximity.
11:36:46 Right now we have a new effort in suitcase city, which
11:36:49 I think we have about three or four meal site partners
11:36:53 already, but the requirements to just meet the needs of
11:36:57 that community is just overwhelming.
11:36:59 And so we are trying to address that along with others
11:37:01 in this room.
11:37:02 >>MARY MULHERN: This could be a question for Rayme or
11:37:08 for you or for both of you.
11:37:10 But I think -- thank you for telling us about the
11:37:14 people that are out there and who you serve, and thank
11:37:17 you for doing that.
11:37:20 But I would like to know what the city is contributing
11:37:27 toward the homeless coalition right now, or toward
11:37:32 Metropolitan Ministries, and I would also like to
11:37:38 know -- I mean, obviously we have this huge unmet need,
11:37:42 especially for beds.
11:37:43 Would you say that's the big -- the biggest problem,
11:37:48 >> Well, yes, a bed.
11:37:51 But there's everything else that goes with it.
11:37:54 And that's the expensive stuff.
11:37:56 >> So what could the city -- you know, we are on the
11:37:59 verge of having a new mayor and new council, and what
11:38:07 can we do?
11:38:08 What can you see that we can do to help alleviate some
11:38:11 of the problems?
11:38:13 >> Well, first of all, I think there needs to be good
11:38:19 understanding of what the problem is, and what the
11:38:26 complexity of meeting that need so, that when it time
11:38:29 to work together, you help us do things.
11:38:34 You are out in front supporting what we are trying to
11:38:40 You know, it would be the easiest thing in the world to
11:38:45 just take an empty warehouse and put a thousand people
11:38:51 in six empty warehouses and think we had finished our
11:38:56 Those of us that are in the actual work are far more
11:39:00 interested in doing everything we can to take get
11:39:03 people permanently out of the situation.
11:39:06 And one of the other myths in this world about
11:39:08 homelessness is that people come in and become homeless
11:39:12 and never get out of it.
11:39:15 They do.
11:39:19 They do.
11:39:19 But they don't do it -- very few can do it without the
11:39:23 support of a community at all levels.
11:39:26 And most of it is not even related to money.
11:39:30 It's related to connecting with them and helping them
11:39:33 get to where they need to be, with training, with
11:39:38 learning, you know, education.
11:39:40 We have a G.E.D. program in which we have around 55 who
11:39:48 came in as a second or third-grade reading level and
11:39:52 now they have moved out, and they have their G.E.D.
11:39:54 I mean, that may not sound like much to you, but to
11:39:59 that one person, it huge.
11:40:02 Let me answer your question about funding.
11:40:06 Metropolitan Ministries raises between cash in kind and
11:40:11 the tremendous volunteer core that we have somewhere in
11:40:14 the neighborhood of $15 million a year.
11:40:20 Out of that, those resources are used, of which that --
11:40:28 about 5% of that is actual government grants funding
11:40:32 that Rayme helps us get.
11:40:35 So you have a leverage for every five dollars that is
11:40:39 put in from, for instance, public funding.
11:40:43 We produce 395 dollars more.
11:40:47 From the community.
11:40:49 And our supporters are across the board corporate,
11:40:56 church, synagogues, schools, whatever.
11:41:00 And the one thing that draws all those resources
11:41:03 together is because they believe and see the result
11:41:08 that we are getting with families and individuals.
11:41:11 And I think that anything that we do together, we need
11:41:14 to hold up as Sheila has done in Pinellas, people that
11:41:21 get results with the people once you do shelter them or
11:41:24 once you do care for them.
11:41:27 One last comment.
11:41:32 I met the original panhandler in Tampa, about 20 years
11:41:37 The corner of 30th and Fowler.
11:41:40 He made the headlines that day.
11:41:45 They had never seen a sign "will work for food" before,
11:41:48 and since then how many do we have today?
11:41:50 And the need for survival, whether you agree with it or
11:41:56 not -- and I agree with you, Chairman Scott, that there
11:42:00 are a lot of people that are hiding within the
11:42:05 I don't know what their reasons are, but it's not fair
11:42:08 to label the homeless as they are that small minority.
11:42:13 I don't know if that answers your question.
11:42:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I appreciate that.
11:42:17 >> I have seen the work you have done and I think it
11:42:25 I came and saw your housing and met some of the people
11:42:29 and saw that the work you are doing for permanency and
11:42:33 helping people get out of the cycle and get back into
11:42:38 jobs and school and -- but you talked about the 50
11:42:45 people that you are doing a great job with.
11:42:48 How do we, you know, spend 50 out of 8,000 people be?
11:42:55 We need to help.
11:42:57 What can the city do to help?
11:43:00 >> Well, excuse me.
11:43:01 >>MARY MULHERN: If we looked for, you know, building,
11:43:06 you know, what are the things that we could do that
11:43:08 will help?
11:43:10 >> Just to clarify.
11:43:11 I wouldn't want us to be on record that we help 50
11:43:17 On a given night, without having to put people out the
11:43:20 next day, we have under our roof, under our roof, about
11:43:31 250 people.
11:43:33 We don't make them move out the next day, come back at
11:43:38 That's just one component that they are on their way to
11:43:41 becoming self-sufficient.
11:43:43 And I could turn them back out and contribute to the
11:43:45 homeless population tonight if I turned everybody out.
11:43:48 So we are into that self-sufficiency.
11:43:52 We believe in that.
11:43:53 But in terms of it seems to be the appearance, or the
11:43:58 issue here is has to do with those that are left on the
11:44:04 And most of them are individuals by site who we witness
11:44:08 every day.
11:44:10 Those, I believe, we have to come together, city,
11:44:14 county, providers, the whole community, and figure out
11:44:20 how are we going to either care for 5,000 of them,
11:44:27 2,000 of them, or 8,000?
11:44:29 But we have got to decide how big is that
11:44:33 responsibility that we are willing to work together and
11:44:37 make happen?
11:44:38 And like I said, the building, that's the easy part,
11:44:41 other than where you place them.
11:44:43 But actually doing what it takes -- and we have enough
11:44:48 volunteers in this community that can offset a lot of
11:44:51 But we are going to have to find a plan that is about
11:44:55 getting them as much as possible permanently off the
11:45:02 And guess what.
11:45:04 There will be more coming.
11:45:07 The myth is that if we get everybody taken care of,
11:45:10 there won't be others.
11:45:11 There will be others.
11:45:12 The great thing is, some will get off the street, and
11:45:15 we have to manage that.
11:45:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
11:45:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Excuse me, sir, Mr. Hintzman.
11:45:25 I keep hearing about the 500 beds that were in Pinellas
11:45:30 I think my aid talked to you at the last meeting.
11:45:32 There's a building near Sulphur Springs.
11:45:36 It's called the tabernacle.
11:45:38 I think it was a bank at one time.
11:45:40 It a church.
11:45:43 Property now.
11:45:44 And it in front of the -- I believe that's a dog track
11:45:47 that's up there, whatever it is.
11:45:51 But to me it appears vacant.
11:45:54 And recently, the lightning said they were going to
11:45:57 donate $10 million I believe to homeless.
11:46:00 I think somebody ought to look at that building.
11:46:03 I don't know who owns it.
11:46:04 But I think it worth looking at.
11:46:07 In my opinion I could see 500 beds in that building.
11:46:11 It's about six floors tall.
11:46:15 >> Well, I think it will come down to what are we going
11:46:19 to do, and where are we going to do it?
11:46:24 And the where will be an obstacle that you are going to
11:46:29 have to help --
11:46:31 >> It's not in an area where there's immediate housing.
11:46:33 It's an enormous parking lot.
11:46:36 It probably 35, 40 acres.
11:46:38 So it's not going to be in somebody's backyard.
11:46:40 >> I know the property.
11:46:43 And we have the sanctuary project just on the north
11:46:47 And that is a neighborhood there.
11:46:49 And we had to work with that neighborhood to put in
11:46:53 town homes which were first class residents.
11:46:57 >> on the other side of the street.
11:46:58 I know exactly.
11:46:59 >> But I am just saying I don't want anybody to believe
11:47:02 that is not a neighborhood right there, because it is.
11:47:05 That's where the children come and swim in that
11:47:07 swimming pool there.
11:47:08 Every day.
11:47:09 Anyway, but there are places like that, I'm sure.
11:47:13 And that's one good suggestion.
11:47:15 And let me defend the lightning.
11:47:17 The lightning didn't give 10 million for the homeless.
11:47:21 They spread at cross.
11:47:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Over a five-year period or something
11:47:29 like that.
11:47:30 Salvation Army.
11:47:32 Catholic charity, want to come?
11:47:33 >> Steve Vick with the Salvation Army, general manager
11:47:44 for Hillsborough County.
11:47:45 And we are down on 1603 North Florida Avenue.
11:47:50 The Salvation Army has been in Tampa since 1886.
11:47:53 Since than day, we have been taking care of homeless
11:47:56 people in this city.
11:48:00 We have three separate housing programs.
11:48:03 We house homeless men and women in the emergency
11:48:06 situation with 125 beds that they can come off the
11:48:09 streets each night.
11:48:10 We feed them three meals while they are there.
11:48:13 We provide meals, toiletry, counseling, referrals to
11:48:18 other places as they need.
11:48:20 We have two other programs, transitional housing for
11:48:26 43 breads.
11:48:27 That's a program that they can be there for two years.
11:48:30 They attend classes, life skill classes, on budgeting,
11:48:36 how to dress, those types things, learn how to go out
11:48:39 and find jobs, transitional housing for women with
11:48:42 children is 29 beds for women and 271 for churn.
11:48:46 Every single day, 3657 days a year, those programs
11:48:52 house about 200 homeless people each day.
11:48:56 Our kitchen provides about 900 meals a day to those who
11:49:01 need help.
11:49:02 I think our biggest program that we try to push the
11:49:05 best we can is our program for family services which is
11:49:09 the program to try to help people from becoming
11:49:12 Where we pay their rent, they pay their utilities, we
11:49:18 pay medical bills for them making sure that they get
11:49:23 medicine that they need.
11:49:26 We have two great collaborations we are using now which
11:49:30 help us out, trinity cafe that feeds at lunch time and
11:49:34 the Tampa family health which has a clinic upstairs in
11:49:37 one of our buildings and does all of our medical
11:49:41 treatments for those that are staying in our
11:49:51 On the panhandling issue, just to say we discourage our
11:49:54 clients from panhandling, we try our best to keep them
11:50:01 safe and keep them in a place where they understand the
11:50:03 safety issues for them are much more important.
11:50:06 We get many free nights to folks who come in, plus we
11:50:11 have many clients sponsored by other agencies such as
11:50:15 homeless recovery, mental health, V.A., many churches
11:50:20 in our community that help us out tremendously.
11:50:22 In our shelter, we have moused a Hillsborough County
11:50:25 schoolteacher, nurses from local hospitals, school bus
11:50:29 drivers, Publix assistant manager, bank tellers,
11:50:35 plumbers, electricians.
11:50:37 People who have jobs but still can't afford to live
11:50:41 outside of a homeless shelter.
11:50:43 This happens every single day.
11:50:47 They are there in the midst of it every single day
11:50:49 right there on Florida Avenue.
11:50:51 That's who we are, and that's what we do.
11:50:55 Any questions?
11:50:56 >> okay.
11:51:03 Is there a cost associated with the nightly
11:51:09 >> For the emergency shelter, we will allow them to
11:51:12 have five night free.
11:51:15 The first five nights there free.
11:51:17 With the hopes that we get them cleaned up, fed,
11:51:20 clothing, and then after that, then there's a $10
11:51:24 charge per night for them to stay.
11:51:26 Again, probably 75 to 380% of those people underwritten
11:51:31 by someone else to stay there.
11:51:32 They don't pay it themselves.
11:51:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the first five natures is free.
11:51:38 Once that has been used, then they have a -- the sixth
11:51:43 night they pay a $10 fee?
11:51:45 >> That's correct.
11:51:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How long can they stay, continue to
11:51:48 pay that $10 fee?
11:51:49 >> Our rule says 45 days a year.
11:51:53 We don't stick to that rule very often.
11:51:57 And of course on cold weather nights, we are -- what
11:52:02 they call a cold weather night, we are open and we
11:52:05 don't turn anyone away.
11:52:06 Our shelter is completely full and over running.
11:52:09 And then we have a collaboration with Hyde Park united
11:52:12 Methodist church who allow us to use their Jim, and we
11:52:15 take folks over and man that while they are there for
11:52:19 them to stay on cold weather nights.
11:52:21 >> So then the first five nights is underwritten by
11:52:25 your expense, I guess, through the collection that you
11:52:28 get from the public and that sort of thing, right?
11:52:31 >> That's correct.
11:52:32 That's correct.
11:52:32 Our cost per night per person is about $65.
11:52:36 >> 65 a night?
11:52:37 >> A night.
11:52:38 And so --
11:52:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I know at our church many times people
11:52:42 come there, and they say they are going to the
11:52:43 Salvation Army or metropolitan.
11:52:48 They always tell us it's $8 an a night.
11:52:51 So it used to be $8, has gone to 10 now?
11:52:54 >> Well, it's been 10 for a long time for that shelter.
11:53:00 It's 30% of their income.
11:53:01 They have to have some kind of income to be in our
11:53:03 transitional housing program.
11:53:04 And we actually have some folks in our transitional
11:53:07 housing based on their incomes, and about $2.06 a
11:53:12 Based on what their income is.
11:53:13 >> Well, many times, when we do get a lot of people
11:53:17 coming to our church, we won't give them cash, but
11:53:20 we'll pay you, whoever it is, like giving them cash.
11:53:24 >> A tremendous amount of people have done that, again
11:53:27 with homeless recovery, mental health.
11:53:29 No one ever gives them cash.
11:53:31 It's always a referring referral.
11:53:33 And then a bill type of thing so cash is not being
11:53:35 passed around.
11:53:36 >> Any other questions?
11:53:44 >>CURTIS STOKES: So 2.06 or $10 a night to Salvation
11:53:47 >> No.
11:53:50 In the transitional housing program is based on their
11:53:53 >> Oh, it's income based?
11:53:55 >> Yes.
11:53:55 >> And emergency stay which is 125 beds, which is open
11:54:00 every day and their first five nights are free and
11:54:05 after that it $10 a night.
11:54:06 >> Are you turning people away at this point, too?
11:54:12 >> No.
11:54:14 And I think there's one thing that we do need to say.
11:54:19 We have the largest amount of emergency beds in the
11:54:21 city, and on non-cold weather nights, we are probably
11:54:26 somewhere between 80 to will 5% full.
11:54:31 One thing we need to understand about homeless people,
11:54:33 there's a lot of them out there because they have no
11:54:36 They are there because of economic problems, mental
11:54:39 health problems, those types of things.
11:54:41 But there is a population of that group of people who
11:54:43 are there because that's where they want to be.
11:54:46 And they are there because that's how they want to
11:54:49 And they will come in every once in a while, get
11:54:51 cleaned up, get fed very well, get clothes they need,
11:54:54 shoes they need, those types of things, and then they
11:54:57 are going to go back out.
11:54:58 Our job is for those who are searching for that help,
11:55:01 searching to move onto that next step, which can be
11:55:04 transitional housing, and transitional housing on
11:55:08 Our job is to be identify those people and helping them
11:55:11 get to where they need to be.
11:55:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the teacher, the nurse's aide, the
11:55:16 electrician, basically until they get back on their
11:55:24 >> That's correct.
11:55:25 We get them into transitional housing, get them all the
11:55:28 resources that they need, start moving them on to being
11:55:36 >>CURTIS STOKES: So you and Rayme and Mr. Hintzman, you
11:55:40 are taking people from being self-sufficient.
11:55:44 But there's that panhandler who is out there that
11:55:47 doesn't want to take advantage of the programs that
11:55:50 exist to get better.
11:55:53 >> I have in a idea if it's the panhandlers that's
11:55:55 doing that or not.
11:55:56 But there is a group of homeless people, whether they
11:55:59 are the panhandlers or not, I don't November that.
11:56:02 >>CURTIS STOKES: But resources does exist to get bet
11:56:04 fir want to get better.
11:56:05 >> The resources are there.
11:56:07 But the need is always larger than the resource.
11:56:10 >> So the whole idea is being hijacked by a group of
11:56:16 individuals who want to use panhandling as a way, as a
11:56:20 business opportunity.
11:56:21 Seems like.
11:56:22 >> I would have a hard time answering that.
11:56:26 >>MARY MULHERN: I just had one question.
11:56:35 Have you noticed in recent -- I guess in the last year,
11:56:39 just with the unemployment going up, are you having
11:56:43 more people in need of emergency shelter or family,
11:56:49 >> We do see that.
11:56:51 And we see a lot of in the our social services where
11:56:53 people who actually used to be donors are now come to
11:56:56 us for help to pay their rent, pay their utilities.
11:56:59 We live off of donors who give us 25 to $50 a month.
11:57:04 Those are our faithful people who give us constantly,
11:57:07 and those are the people we are now seeing come to see
11:57:10 us for help.
11:57:13 And one person in the family has lost their job,
11:57:16 something that's happened.
11:57:17 Most of the people that we see are only missing one
11:57:20 paycheck, or a car bill, or a mental health issue, just
11:57:28 seeking a way to come see us for help.
11:57:31 >> are your donations down?
11:57:34 >> Do nations are tremendously down.
11:57:36 I have been working with the Salvation Army for close
11:57:37 to 30 years.
11:57:38 I have been in the Tampa area for eight.
11:57:42 This by far was the worst Christmastime, which is our
11:57:46 largest time to get donations, that I have ever seen.
11:57:51 We usually have money held over to help us pay bills
11:57:54 until July from Christmas.
11:57:59 At the end of January we were already in the hole.
11:58:01 So it's a very desperate time for us right now to be
11:58:04 able to continue to do all the things that we do,
11:58:10 having 200 people to take care of plus feeding all the
11:58:14 folks we feed.
11:58:15 It become very difficult.
11:58:16 We hand out food boxes every single day.
11:58:20 At social services department.
11:58:26 Keeping up with that has been very difficult.
11:58:27 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
11:58:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
11:58:33 Catholic charity?
11:58:36 Is there any other nonprofit original here that wanted
11:58:38 to address council?
11:58:45 I saw Mr. Ryan.
11:58:46 >> Good morning, chair and council.
11:58:48 Thank you for inviting us.
11:58:50 Sheila Lopez, traffic charity, chief operating officer,
11:58:55 16th street, St. Petersburg, Florida.
11:58:57 I have been working with the homeless now for four and
11:58:59 a half years.
11:59:01 Started in St. Pete.
11:59:02 We have not done much in Hillsborough, but we want to.
11:59:06 And in the City of Tampa.
11:59:08 We have just purchased some of our -- we hope that we
11:59:13 can help some of our single moms that are almost
11:59:17 homeless, or to prevent them from getting homeless.
11:59:21 What we have seen is, we think we have about 5,000,
11:59:30 We have about 5,000 street homeless.
11:59:32 Catholic charity has really concentrated on the street
11:59:36 As you all know, we have the infamous tent city in
11:59:40 We have now operated for four years.
11:59:43 We have 250 tents.
11:59:48 We have 80 apartment that we just received funding for
11:59:52 about two years ago.
11:59:53 We just opened them two weeks ago.
11:59:59 We have many in there with zero income.
12:00:03 And on the other side, which is the Catholic charity
12:00:07 side, it will be 30% of their income, and they need to
12:00:10 be working, and we have just started on that.
12:00:12 And we think we have already ten fold.
12:00:16 I think we will be fully full by March 30th.
12:00:19 And that is permanent housing.
12:00:21 The people that we serve, when we find them on the
12:00:25 street, normally they don't have ID.
12:00:28 And now it's increasingly difficult to get the I D.
12:00:32 If you don't have the birth certificate and you don't
12:00:34 have a letter and you don't have two forms of ID, it's
12:00:37 very difficult to get them.
12:00:41 As Morris said, the most important thing is the
12:00:45 We can put them anywhere.
12:00:47 But to take care of them and give them hope to move on
12:00:50 and to get self-sufficient, that's the trick.
12:00:54 We have about a 56% success rate.
12:00:58 And we serve about a thousand.
12:01:01 We also have a family program.
12:01:03 We will -- we were blessed to have the HPLT money
12:01:09 We are overspent.
12:01:10 We are out of it P.it was supposed to go another six
12:01:12 The families that we see are uncredible.
12:01:15 One day I walked down to the lobby there was a young
12:01:24 lady, just had a baby.
12:01:26 She had had seven.
12:01:28 She had been staying in her car.
12:01:29 We have had 120 apartment in Pinellas village.
12:01:32 They are not for homeless but for single moms, and they
12:01:34 are very affordable.
12:01:36 And we try to prevent homelessness by moving them of in
12:01:39 there but there's only three beds.
12:01:43 So I called the board and I said, we have 15 vacancies.
12:01:48 I'm taking her in.
12:01:49 Is that okay?
12:01:50 Yeah, go ahead.
12:01:52 She now has a job.
12:02:03 She's struggling because with seven kids, they are
12:02:06 But she's self-sufficient and she's working on her own.
12:02:16 We have to have partners P.we have just in tent city a
12:02:20 million dollars of donations.
12:02:21 That's not just money.
12:02:22 That isn't really money.
12:02:24 It's in-kind, or cash donations.
12:02:28 And the in-kind is personal items, meals.
12:02:35 All of our meals are donated.
12:02:37 We don't have a kitchen.
12:02:38 We have a serving kitchen.
12:02:40 So if we eat, the churches, originals, all kind,
12:02:45 Methodist, Jewish, anything, eagle scouts come and do
12:02:51 Girl Scouts come and do projects.
12:02:53 We just had 120 students last week that came and did a
12:02:59 And helped us build platforms for our tents.
12:03:02 The homeless problem is with us for a while.
12:03:06 We have to help those people that want to help
12:03:09 And wave to work as a team to do that.
12:03:15 Our thumb is in the dike.
12:03:17 All of us.
12:03:17 We would like to have more capacity.
12:03:19 We don't know what the answers are but we have to work
12:03:22 together to try to find answers.
12:03:23 >> Let me ask you a question.
12:03:28 Did you say that you housed 5,000 people?
12:03:30 >> No.
12:03:31 I said I have a thousand people a year, and the tent
12:03:35 city is 255, plus about to 280 and we have about 80
12:03:45 apartment in the back but they get services and they
12:03:47 think we all have to remember.
12:03:50 As Morris said we can get buildings everywhere, but
12:03:55 that's not going to mach them self-sufficient.
12:03:58 That's not going to teach them how to fish.
12:04:00 When we started a community garden, we were trying to
12:04:03 start things in the back, but we have to find things
12:04:07 for them to do.
12:04:09 They want to work.
12:04:11 For the most part, most of them do want to work.
12:04:16 I don't know if there's panhandlers.
12:04:18 I know some of mine have panhandled in Pinellas County
12:04:21 and I know that I have stopped my car, put them in the
12:04:24 car and taken them back to the camp and tell them you
12:04:26 can't do that.
12:04:28 But I don't think that's the preponderance of who we
12:04:33 >> From what I hear from all of the providers, you
12:04:37 discourage what I heard the panhandling.
12:04:41 I heard that from everybody that's come forth that you
12:04:44 really discourage the panhandling.
12:04:45 >> Absolutely.
12:04:47 We have to find services for them.
12:04:49 We have to help them get self-sufficient.
12:04:52 That's very important.
12:04:55 They are not going to get self-sufficient standing on
12:04:57 the street taking dollars, and being out the next day.
12:05:02 That's not going to work.
12:05:03 >> The NSP funds, is that for -- that's an apartment
12:05:09 complex, multifamily units?
12:05:10 >> Yes, it is.
12:05:11 I can't remember because we have gotten three or four
12:05:13 of them.
12:05:14 It either for 24 or 48 hours.
12:05:17 -- 48 apartments.
12:05:18 I'm old and dyslexic.
12:05:20 But I think it might be for 24 apartments.
12:05:23 And that won't be ready probably until May.
12:05:26 >> And that's through Hillsborough County?
12:05:28 >> I have one through Hillsborough County, I have one
12:05:31 through the City of Tampa.
12:05:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:05:34 >> And we are trying to get more.
12:05:36 We are going for more of them.
12:05:38 Because I think it's very important to have housing but
12:05:41 we need the services to go with the housing.
12:05:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: To go with the housing.
12:05:44 >>MARY MULHERN: A couple of questions.
12:05:48 When you started out, you said you were doing a lot in
12:05:51 St. Pete, and you want to do more here.
12:05:53 So are you working with the county right now?
12:05:57 >> Yes, we are.
12:05:58 And we are really -- we have been looking for property
12:06:01 for either singles or families to work in Hillsborough
12:06:07 And as you know, we tried to have a tent city in
12:06:10 Hillsborough County in that field.
12:06:12 >> I know we are hearing that from everyone, that the
12:06:18 important thing is to be able to help the people who
12:06:24 want the help and need services and training and need
12:06:26 to get back into not just housing but into jobs and
12:06:31 back into being self-sufficient.
12:06:37 I'm just trying to figure out what we can do to help
12:06:40 And the money for the services that are provided, I
12:06:44 think you could probably -- well, you probably would
12:06:47 have to speak for yourself, but you can just tell me
12:06:49 about Catholic charities.
12:06:55 Are the services -- you are working with county
12:06:59 >> We are working with county services, working with
12:07:01 the other analysis that come in and bring mental
12:07:04 health, we work with adult education, we have G.E.D.,
12:07:06 we have all of those things.
12:07:08 But the HPRP which we had before was dollars that we
12:07:13 give for rent and utilities as they tried to get
12:07:17 That's not going to be any longer.
12:07:18 >> Is that a federal?
12:07:20 >> That was -- it federal, I believe.
12:07:24 s was federal and came back down and then the counties
12:07:26 could apply, and the counties chose to do different
12:07:29 things, which the coalition in Hillsborough got that
12:07:34 In St. Pete, Pinellas County got it.
12:07:36 City of St. Pete got it.
12:07:37 But then they gave Catholic charities some money to
12:07:39 help with the homeless camp.
12:07:41 So that we could move people out at a higher rate.
12:07:45 And then therefore take in more people.
12:07:48 >> So it must be -- it must be very difficult right
12:07:52 now, because of all the government cuts, and the fact
12:07:56 that donors are hurting, too, and can't afford --
12:08:00 >> Yes, donations down considerably.
12:08:04 And it is very stressful.
12:08:06 Like Morris said, can't leave a baby on the street.
12:08:09 One day I was walking a mother and child, and my
12:08:13 president saw me and said, we don't have any money.
12:08:15 And I said, it's a baby.
12:08:17 And he just laughed
12:08:18 We don't let a baby or child stay on the street, no
12:08:22 matter what we have to do.
12:08:23 If we take it out and put them in a hotel and work with
12:08:26 them, if we have to call one of our other agencies,
12:08:29 which we do all the time.
12:08:30 But most of us are at capacity.
12:08:32 I can't speak for all of us but most of us are just on
12:08:35 the brink and we always push just a little more.
12:08:38 We are as capacity.
12:08:39 We can take ten more but then you get the ten, the next
12:08:42 ten, and by the time you know it you are 100 over
12:08:45 >>MARY MULHERN: Do you see -- are there opportunities
12:08:48 that maybe we are not applying for as far as funding
12:08:53 from grants that we could, as a municipality, or as a
12:08:58 county, could be applying for funding?
12:09:02 >> Not that I know of but I'm sure there are.
12:09:05 We just don't know about them.
12:09:07 We are very investigative. We go on the Internet all
12:09:11 the time.
12:09:11 We have cafeteria USA and all of our partners that do
12:09:17 things but it difficult.
12:09:18 >> You have someone dancing around behind you.
12:09:28 [ Laughter ]
12:09:28 >> That's okay.
12:09:29 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, thank you for everything you do.
12:09:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
12:09:34 Mr. Ryan?
12:09:37 This is the last presenter, right?
12:09:38 Last presenter?
12:09:39 >> My name is Jerome Ryan, Tampa Housing Authority.
12:09:53 And, you know, when you sit back there and listen to
12:09:56 all of this, you begin to realize how complex this
12:09:58 problem really is.
12:10:00 Not only complex, but you also realize, too, that
12:10:03 there's many faces to the homeless.
12:10:05 You know, they are professional people that are
12:10:09 technically homeless because they are staying in other
12:10:12 One of the things that I think we have to do as a
12:10:15 community, you know, while we can sit back and same
12:10:17 that it's the city's responsibility, the county's
12:10:20 responsibility, it the state's responsibility, the
12:10:22 federal government's responsibility, it's really all of
12:10:24 our responsibility.
12:10:25 And I think in light of what happening from a budgetary
12:10:29 standpoint, we have got to begin to realize that we are
12:10:32 we have to start tightening up on our resources but
12:10:35 share our resources with each other.
12:10:37 One of the good things about the coalition for the
12:10:39 homeless, and Metropolitan Ministries, Salvation Army,
12:10:42 we all work together collectively every day.
12:10:45 And we see a lot.
12:10:48 I mean, from a regulatory standpoint it's very
12:10:52 difficult for us to handle many of the issues that
12:10:53 affect the homeless.
12:10:54 And I think that's sad.
12:10:56 But also, too, I think that what happens in a lot of
12:10:59 instances as you indicated earlier, there's a lot of
12:11:02 people out there that choose to be out there.
12:11:04 That's a reality and I think we have to come to grips
12:11:06 with that.
12:11:07 Then there are people out there that really need our
12:11:09 help and our support.
12:11:10 One of the things that I heard mentioned here a few
12:11:12 minute ago that makes a lot of sense to me is take
12:11:16 maybe a warehouse.
12:11:17 Most communities, it's going to be difficult to put
12:11:19 shelters in our community, because you are going to
12:11:22 have the community being somewhat objectionable and you
12:11:26 name it.
12:11:27 And I understand that.
12:11:27 But there are some opportunities to take advantage of
12:11:29 some of the warehouses, now, put cots in, build
12:11:36 showers, rotate social services in and out, and
12:11:38 especially those individuals that needed a degree
12:11:42 Because if you have an I de and not an address you are
12:11:44 still in bad shape especially if you are looking for a
12:11:47 One of the things that happens in our office a lot --
12:11:49 and I am there till late in the evening because
12:11:51 sometimes I don't leave till 7:00 or 7:30, periodically
12:11:55 we'll have families pull in looking for housing and
12:11:57 it's difficult to contact somebody.
12:11:59 Sometimes we just allow them to sleep in the parking
12:12:01 area because it is gated.
12:12:02 And it's safer inside the gate than it is out on the
12:12:06 street in some of these areas.
12:12:08 So I think overall, we all have to work collectively
12:12:10 and do what needs to be done.
12:12:12 We have a voucher program for our vets.
12:12:15 We have about 290 for homeless vets and also as Rayme
12:12:20 mentioned the whole idea of the shelter-plus program,
12:12:22 there's 54 families there.
12:12:24 But that's just scratching the surface.
12:12:26 I think when we are talking about trying to put
12:12:29 together numbers, it difficult.
12:12:31 It is a very -- you have to rely on information that
12:12:34 many of the people -- sometimes they tell the truth and
12:12:40 sometimes they don't.
12:12:41 And it very difficult for Rayme and those twice to do a
12:12:44 survey and get all of the information that you would
12:12:46 like to have, because we run we find out later on it
12:12:54 wasn't exactly if truth.
12:12:55 But I think it's important to realize that in order for
12:12:58 us to understand the homelessness, we have to do it
12:13:01 like we do in politics.
12:13:04 For example, all politics are local.
12:13:05 Well, homelessness is local.
12:13:07 And I don't think we should sit back and defend depend
12:13:10 on the federal government or anybody else.
12:13:12 I think we are going to have to be do it as a
12:13:14 We are going to have to sit down and begin addressing
12:13:16 some of these issues.
12:13:17 I also believe, too, that many of our communities, if
12:13:20 they truly understood what's really going on with the
12:13:24 homeless, and I think that many of them are not only
12:13:27 step up to support but I think many of them would be
12:13:29 willing to allow us to do something in their
12:13:31 I think part of our problem is that we don't ask them,
12:13:34 we don't ask them, look, we have got a problem here, we
12:13:37 need to solve this problem.
12:13:38 Yes, they may not want in the our community but they
12:13:40 may give us some other suggestions on how to solve some
12:13:43 of these problems.
12:13:44 I think by utilizing, putting cots, nice showers,
12:13:49 rotating social services and using that as an address,
12:13:52 mailboxes, I think we begin to solve some of the
12:13:54 problems in our community.
12:13:55 Because people of the people -- for example, back in
12:13:58 the 80s and the ninth, we were decentralized and a
12:14:03 lot of individuals put out on the street.
12:14:05 Some were on medication, not on medication now.
12:14:08 They didn't go home because their families were scared
12:14:11 of them so they end up becoming homeless.
12:14:13 I do believe, my own personal opinion, people take
12:14:17 advantage of the system.
12:14:17 I think there are hustlers, I think they have fought
12:14:20 businesses out there, and I think I see some of the
12:14:25 same people over and over and over again, and actually,
12:14:28 I see some of them in places that I didn't think they
12:14:30 could afford to be but they are there, for whatever
12:14:33 So you have got people that are really hustling and
12:14:35 playing the system.
12:14:36 There's no question in my mind, and we need to come to
12:14:39 grips with that and deal with that for whatever it's
12:14:42 But I do think though the variety majority of truly
12:14:47 I run lob into a lot of people every day needing help,
12:14:50 needing support, just needing a hands-up, giving them
12:14:53 an opportunity to pick up a because of the economic
12:14:56 situation today, find themselves in a difficult
12:14:58 situation and all they need is a hand.
12:15:01 They need job training.
12:15:02 They need opportunity to find a job.
12:15:04 They need health care.
12:15:05 They need all of those services that are needed.
12:15:07 And I think what you heard here is the social services,
12:15:11 you can't build a house without a foundation.
12:15:13 You have to have a foundation.
12:15:14 And you have to have the support of the community and
12:15:17 analysis in this community.
12:15:18 I think overall, everybody does a pretty good job.
12:15:21 That includes the city and county.
12:15:23 But I think resources is a major, major issue.
12:15:26 And the resource is going to get even more scarce.
12:15:29 We are looking at our own situation now, collectively.
12:15:31 And thousands are being cut all over the place.
12:15:34 That's the reality.
12:15:35 So we know that's going to be a reality so we are going
12:15:37 to have to sit down as a community, and not just city
12:15:41 government, county government, state government, but as
12:15:43 a community.
12:15:43 So totally and sit down and come up with some ways to
12:15:47 solve this problem.
12:15:48 I think it can be done.
12:15:49 I think that Tampa is a very giving community, and I
12:15:52 think if people in this community are willing to do
12:15:55 whatever is necessary to help serve.
12:15:57 One of the things I learned a long time ago is we have
12:15:59 a responsibility to try to help those that need help.
12:16:03 Because if we don't, we endanger our humanity.
12:16:06 So that's something we have to do as a community.
12:16:09 I think we can do it as a community.
12:16:10 I think we have the wherewithal and the will to do
12:16:14 So thank you.
12:16:15 >>GWEN MILLER:
12:16:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Ryan.
12:16:17 Let me just say to all of you, let me just say to all
12:16:21 of the providers and those who are involved, you want
12:16:27 to personally thank you for the work that you do.
12:16:29 Most of you I am very familiar with from what you do,
12:16:32 one or two ways.
12:16:33 Either when I was on the county commission, Rayme from
12:16:36 there back, or from a pastoral standpoint, those who
12:16:38 come knock on our door.
12:16:39 There are many churches, these persons knock on our
12:16:42 doors, seeking some kind of help or assistance, and we
12:16:45 generally will assist.
12:16:50 Salvation Army, Metropolitan Ministries, but along with
12:16:52 that, most times they are asking for dollars, and we
12:16:55 won't guff them dollars, but we will do one of two
12:16:58 We will give you the money to take them in, or we have
12:17:02 a food pantry as well at our location.
12:17:06 But I do say thank you for what you do do, because the
12:17:12 task is enormous, and overwhelming, and you are out
12:17:16 there on the front line.
12:17:21 And so we do greatly appreciate that.
12:17:23 It is my understanding, the report that Mike Marrs is
12:17:28 working with, based on what you said, remain, you are
12:17:30 involved in that process.
12:17:32 Am I accurate with that?
12:17:37 If you don't mind a second.
12:17:40 >> Yes, actually the coalition wrote the report for the
12:17:42 county, and they included the different components of
12:17:46 the services that are provided from Hillsborough
12:17:48 County, and I know Councilwoman Mulhern had asked
12:17:56 several of the participants today what recommendations
12:17:58 that we would have, and several of those
12:18:01 recommendations are included with that report.
12:18:03 But another thing that you can do as City Council
12:18:06 members is, one, whenever you hear that the governor is
12:18:11 going to cut the budget for all of the homeless funding
12:18:13 in the state, which has a direct impact on our
12:18:16 organization, and the organizations behind me, we can
12:18:21 help advocate from that perspective, and also on a
12:18:24 federal level as well, because all of these providers
12:18:26 receive federal funds, whether it's through CDBG,
12:18:32 whether it's through the continuum of care.
12:18:36 Those are very important components to bringing in
12:18:38 those federal particulars to help this community.
12:18:41 And then just focusing back on the recommendations that
12:18:45 we provided in the ten-year plan.
12:18:47 And that's one of the things we'll always focus on.
12:18:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Again, I really do appreciate
12:18:54 everything that you all are doing, and will more than
12:18:56 likely attend the workshop with the county commission.
12:19:03 I'm not sure the governor is lessening to too many
12:19:09 people these days, but I do understand it could have a
12:19:11 ripple effect, once those cuts start -- because I was
12:19:13 told by the school board that based on the government's
12:19:17 recommendation that cut could affect their Bill Gates
12:19:23 grant of 100,000 so that's going to be a ripple effect
12:19:26 on all these programs.
12:19:27 So I do understand that very well.
12:19:28 >> Yes, because we use the state dollars that match the
12:19:33 federal dollars.
12:19:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's exactly right.
12:19:36 But thank you all for what you do do.
12:19:40 You are doing a lot, tremendous, tremendous help to
12:19:44 this community, to this city, to this county, and
12:19:48 hopefully as we two forward we can continue to work
12:19:50 together, find ways of meeting the needs.
12:19:55 >> Shannon had to leave because she had a meeting with
12:20:02 the V.A. because they are working specifically on
12:20:04 veterans issues.
12:20:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Right.
12:20:05 >> But on behalf of all of the organizations here, we
12:20:08 want to thank you for allowing us to present to be you
12:20:11 and hope you have a better understanding of what the
12:20:13 homeless needs are in our community.
12:20:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Not only for us but I think also for
12:20:17 the community as a whole.
12:20:25 Those watching dab have been enlightened about the
12:20:28 challenges as well as what you do as organizations in
12:20:29 this community, hopefully have been watching also will
12:20:34 encourage those to contribute, donate, in some way,
12:20:38 some fashion.
12:20:41 It's very helpful.
12:20:43 Of course, remain, I have known you about 14 years now
12:20:46 from the county and all that you have been doing.
12:20:51 All of the -- we appreciate what you do.
12:21:03 And a key point is putting people in housing is not
12:21:09 But you must look at it from a holistic stain point.
12:21:16 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to thank all of you.
12:21:21 And I think I learned a lot today, and hope other
12:21:24 people, the public, was able to hear what the needs
12:21:29 are, and what really strikes me is what Mr. Ryan said,
12:21:33 and it's obvious that it's the resources, and we need
12:21:36 to work together to try to find based on what we have
12:21:42 So I was wondering, the workshop -- is it the report,
12:21:48 the county that Mike Merrill is gonna --
12:21:53 >> It's a workshop.
12:21:53 >> Is that public workshop, publicly noticed?
12:21:55 So anyone from City Council can go.
12:21:56 So we'll be there.
12:21:57 And then is that -- my question for you, Rayme, was
12:22:00 that your recommendation will be part of that
12:22:04 Or we already have them in your report that you gave
12:22:07 >> The recommendations are part of that report.
12:22:11 >>MARY MULHERN: So we'll look forward to that.
12:22:13 Thank you so much.
12:22:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll take public comment.
12:22:16 Then we'll recess, adjourn for the rest of the day.
12:22:19 >> Patrick Frank R. Williams, 7127 east Scott street,
12:22:26 paradise missionary Baptist church.
12:22:28 I have been supporting the homeless ever since we have
12:22:30 been over there in that neighborhood.
12:22:33 And I also support Salvation Army, and we support them
12:22:41 in a big way, because we have a lot of homeless people
12:22:44 in the housing over there.
12:22:46 They have a lot of peoples come to the church, they are
12:22:50 begging for a place to stay for the night, and I think
12:22:57 Salvation Army was charging like $7 a night.
12:22:58 And we would give them $7 so they can have somewhere to
12:23:02 sleep at night.
12:23:03 And metropolitan gives people turkey and everything
12:23:13 else during Thanksgiving and Christmas, and I this I
12:23:18 think all these organizations fulfill an obligation,
12:23:21 and if you can help them in any kind of way please do.
12:23:24 My church is not able to support the homeless no more,
12:23:27 because Central Park has been eliminated, and Wan they
12:23:32 did to me was very harsh, and somebody broke in my
12:23:36 church just the other night, and trying to block my
12:23:44 right-of-way, so my insurance company dropped me.
12:23:50 So I'm planning on doing something.
12:23:53 But I wanted to come here to the City Council because
12:23:55 they won't do nothing for me.
12:23:57 And Ryan is back there, Jerome Ryan.
12:24:01 But since he's here, to have a meeting with him many
12:24:06 times, and he won't meet with me under any
12:24:10 Every time I called the secretary, Dr. William want to
12:24:14 talk, he said tell them I'm not here or something.
12:24:21 And meet him in public places.
12:24:25 I call the secretary, set up a meeting with him, and so
12:24:30 I -- I might have to find some on the obligation so you
12:24:33 all can hear me and also the Tampa housing can hear me
12:24:36 because you all have put me in a great dilemma.
12:24:39 Not only me but another lady that had a business on
12:24:42 Scott street by the name of Andrew, you all eliminate
12:24:49 When GTE came over there you all gave them all kind of
12:24:53 land, you opened up a street for them, you blocked a
12:24:55 street, you put a fence around, so why are you all
12:24:58 going to -- I'm worshiping God.
12:25:03 My church is in a dilemma right now.
12:25:05 And I need somebody to talk.
12:25:07 I talked to Reverend Scott, called you many times but
12:25:12 you never respond and I'm highly upset.
12:25:14 And let me tell you this and then I am going to sit
12:25:17 I would like for you to be the next mayor for the City
12:25:19 of Tampa.
12:25:20 I sent out some flyers that I didn't want you, but I
12:25:23 found out you are the only one qualified to be our next
12:25:26 May God bless.
12:25:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Chief Bennett.
12:25:30 Anyone else from the public?
12:25:31 Anyone else from the public?
12:25:32 Then chief Bennett, if you want to have any comments, I
12:25:35 sort of welcome that as well.
12:25:37 >> Thank you, council.
12:25:41 First, on behalf of Chief Castor and the police
12:25:45 department, thank you for inviting us to this workshop
12:25:48 As with everybody else it's always very enlightening
12:25:51 with the circumstances of our city and see how best we
12:25:54 can serve the community and the public.
12:25:56 I want to make a general comment and then make I can
12:25:58 offer a few statistics to help guide some of the things
12:26:01 that we look at in the police department.
12:26:04 The men and women in the police department take their
12:26:06 oath of office in their swearing-in sorry money, two
12:26:09 things are told to them very clearly.
12:26:11 One is what the mission of the police department is to
12:26:13 reduce crime and improve the quality of life through
12:26:16 effective partnerships in the community.
12:26:18 And working with whether it be Metropolitan Ministries,
12:26:21 Salvation Army, et cetera, those things two on every
12:26:24 day, behind the scenes of the police department.
12:26:27 The second thing they are told is that we are going to
12:26:29 enforce the law and improve quality of life without any
12:26:32 bias, and we just look at things starting with the
12:26:35 criminal components, and then we go from there, and you
12:26:39 can tell, and a lot of statistics we have been given
12:26:43 more associated with the solicitation in the street,
12:26:45 and most of our encounters come with warnings.
12:26:47 You know, we are still pushing almost 500 calls for
12:26:52 We started keeping track of the subcategories in the
12:26:54 middle of the fall, but still most of it comes with
12:26:59 warnings and conversation and offer of some kind of
12:27:01 support or opportunity outside of an arrest.
12:27:03 And then the other statistics I would like to offer is
12:27:05 the fact that inside of the arrests that we have made
12:27:09 over the last three years, we do show a decline in
12:27:11 people that have been arrested that don't have an
12:27:13 address, and that address could be because they don't
12:27:17 want to give us one, and it doesn't corroborate with
12:27:19 our data and our system already, or because truly they
12:27:22 are homeless or they don't have a place, they don't
12:27:25 have an address to give us, but that percentage within
12:27:28 our interval of arrests has been declining and
12:27:32 something in there is working as far as the service
12:27:34 side goes.
12:27:35 At least that's our opinion.
12:27:36 Chief Castor has us support the homeless census count.
12:27:42 Chief Castor keeps three positions, one in each patrol
12:27:45 district, that is exclusively designed to do community
12:27:49 policing beyond the day-to-day policing services and
12:27:52 work with the various components of each of those
12:27:55 neighborhoods, and we'll continue to do that, and of
12:27:57 course we'll offer any support to the city and the
12:27:59 social services that make up our great city.
12:28:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
12:28:03 >> I'm James Chip mane, 2137 west chestnut street.
12:28:15 And I just want to say I'm not too popular especially
12:28:21 with some of the people from the social service
12:28:23 analysis behind us.
12:28:24 But I drove the length of Kennedy Boulevard about two
12:28:28 days ago, starting from Westshore mall, all the way up
12:28:32 to university of Tampa, counted 34 solicitors in the
12:28:38 And I have got to tell you, after awhile, it becomes a
12:28:43 blight, and it's not necessarily a reflection always of
12:28:46 people who really do need help.
12:28:49 And you are correct, everybody is correct to emphasize
12:28:52 that, now, it is a social service issue, it is an
12:28:55 employment issue, it is an economic usual you.
12:28:58 Bub it's also a blight issue and a quality of life
12:29:01 issue in our city.
12:29:02 And after awhile, it becomes a reflection of the lack
12:29:06 of strength from city government.
12:29:08 That's when it becomes a reflection on.
12:29:12 And after awhile, people who get solicited at pretty
12:29:18 much every corner don't get upset with solicitors
12:29:22 anymore, they get upset with the City Council.
12:29:24 They get upset with the mayor.
12:29:26 I'm just one driver and registered voter in the city
12:29:30 who is getting an attitude about this.
12:29:33 But multiplying me by tens of thousands, and you see
12:29:37 that you have a genuine problem.
12:29:40 Now, I guess way want to ask you today is, don't talk
12:29:46 about it anymore.
12:29:47 Don't study it anymore.
12:29:49 Just act.
12:29:51 And I hope that you do it with an eye towards helping
12:29:54 the people who really do need it.
12:29:58 At the same time, letting everybody know, including
12:30:01 those who solicit on the street and the citizens of
12:30:03 Tampa, that this is going to end eventually, that they
12:30:07 are not going to have to worry about aggressive
12:30:09 panhandling on the roads anymore.
12:30:12 Perhaps somebody provision that it is a problem, so
12:30:18 convene a task force and handle it.
12:30:21 And it should include everybody that came here and
12:30:24 spoke today.
12:30:26 The social service agencies, the police, whatnot.
12:30:30 But you have always got to -- you also have to give a
12:30:34 nod to those of us who live and work in the city every
12:30:36 day, and those of us who are maybe just a little bit
12:30:41 tired maybe made to feel guilty every time we are at a
12:30:44 red light because we don't know if the person next to
12:30:47 us is really down on their luck or is actually doing
12:30:49 better financially, because there are some scam artists
12:30:52 out there, or who just needs beer money for the night.
12:30:55 If you actually deal with the solicitation issue, then
12:31:00 you will weed out the people who are just scamming the
12:31:02 rest of us, and the would you know whose need help will
12:31:04 get it.
12:31:05 So perhaps, you don't New York City just throw this
12:31:11 If you propose something that maybe offered a study
12:31:15 period followed by an absolute ban on solicitation at
12:31:18 some point in the future, something that perhaps
12:31:21 sunsets a few month down the road, I think that's
12:31:24 worthy of consideration.
12:31:27 And on that note, that's it.
12:31:29 Thank you.
12:31:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let me just say to all of us
12:31:34 here, one is relative to what -- the issue today was
12:31:43 homelessness and not necessarily about the panhandling.
12:31:45 But I do want to stress -- I'm trying to speak to the
12:31:51 gentleman that just got through talking there -- you
12:31:54 don't have to come back to the mike.
12:31:56 I'm just speaking to the issue.
12:31:57 One, the county did have been a complete task force, as
12:32:00 I understand.
12:32:01 Is that accurate?
12:32:02 Which included the city as well.
12:32:04 And that report was submitted to the county commission.
12:32:07 That's one.
12:32:08 Secondly, I think we all know that there was an attempt
12:32:11 by me through the city attorney to do a partial ban
12:32:14 which would allow restriction on the major arterial
12:32:17 roads, taking them off of Kennedy.
12:32:21 So you wouldn't have to drive down Kennedy, they were
12:32:25 not going ride on Kennedy or major street that failed
12:32:27 by a vote of 2-5.
12:32:29 Two of us voted for that, which also would allow for a
12:32:33 time to look at the effect of that, and had it gone
12:32:37 into the community -- and it could have come back and
12:32:40 did a total ban.
12:32:41 So I offered a compromise position that was one, let's
12:32:44 do it on major roads first, and see what the impact
12:32:46 will be.
12:32:48 Secondly, it would also allow those people who gather
12:32:52 here in large number that sell newspapers to come and
12:32:55 do that.
12:32:56 However, they would have to make an adjustment.
12:32:59 Now, I will tell you what my problem is, and that is on
12:33:01 that day, there were only about two people that showed
12:33:05 up that was in support of that.
12:33:06 The rest of the people that showed up was in support of
12:33:08 doing nothing.
12:33:09 So my suggestion would be in the future, with the new
12:33:14 council come forward, those who want a total ban, you
12:33:17 need to show up and express that to City Council,
12:33:22 because that didn't happen three or four weeks ago.
12:33:26 Only a couple of people showed up that was opposed to
12:33:31 the ban, that supported the ban, and then they were
12:33:34 supporting for a total ban.
12:33:37 However, they said, but we don't want to hurt the
12:33:39 newspaper industry.
12:33:40 So that, too, was a conflict.
12:33:43 So what I found was those who are pushing for a total
12:33:46 ban did not show up that day.
12:33:48 The people that that showed up were ones who were
12:33:51 opposed to the partial ban or a total ban.
12:33:55 So those public hearings are open to the public.
12:33:58 So next council I'm sure will take that issue up.
12:34:02 I'm pretty sure it will come back in the future.
12:34:06 And I won't be here, but there are those that perhaps
12:34:09 will be here to address that issue.
12:34:14 >>YVONNE CAPIN: There's only four of us here now,
12:34:18 again, but on the issue that you just brought up, I
12:34:23 would like to make a motion to look at banning
12:34:34 solicitation on Monday through Friday, allowing
12:34:38 solicitation on weekdays only, and secondly, to insert
12:34:44 a paragraph that sunset it is ordinance in six month,
12:34:49 requiring the City Council to review the effect of the
12:34:52 ordinance in order to consider extending it.
12:34:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the attorney may want to speak
12:35:01 to that because that's not part of the agenda today.
12:35:05 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I would like to make the motion at any
12:35:06 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
12:35:08 Whether or not it appropriate to make the motion, I can
12:35:10 let Mr. Shelby address, then if we get to the merit of
12:35:13 the motion I would like to comment.
12:35:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: To me, we only have four council and
12:35:23 it was not a part of our agenda, but go ahead, Marty.
12:35:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With regard to workshops, no official
12:35:29 action on the matter which is the subject of the
12:35:31 workshop shall be taken during or after a workshop
12:35:34 unless the public is afforded the opportunity to
12:35:37 comment prayer to action.
12:35:42 They have that opportunity for public comment.
12:35:44 Council, you do sometimes take up items under new
12:35:48 It's not inappropriate as a procedural matter, but,
12:35:53 Mr. Chairman, you raise the issue of not having a full
12:35:55 council if it wishes to address.
12:35:59 You do have been a quorum.
12:36:01 It requires a second and a unanimous vote.
12:36:07 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Here we go.
12:36:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second to that?
12:36:11 Do you want to speak?
12:36:12 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
12:36:14 And I just wanted to remained council that as Mr.
12:36:17 Fletcher has explained to you before, the issue of
12:36:20 solicitation in the rights-of-way is protected by the
12:36:23 first amendment, so any restrictions that you put in
12:36:25 place have to be narrowly tailored -- to significant
12:36:29 governmental interest and we would have to have some
12:36:32 study to demonstrate that so we can't just come back
12:36:35 with an ordinance unless we actually have a study that
12:36:37 backs up the proposal.
12:36:40 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Exactly what I understood.
12:36:42 So what I am asking is that we study the weekend, when
12:36:47 it came up, the weekend was not Saturday and Sunday,
12:36:53 was not explained, there was not any statistics on
12:37:02 And I remember very clearly, Sunday in particular,
12:37:07 being said that maybe the traffic travels faster
12:37:12 because there's less traffic, and that is an opinion.
12:37:20 It was not a study.
12:37:21 And so one could say that on Sunday traffic travel is
12:37:28 slower because it's Sunday, and they have nowhere -- no
12:37:32 appointments to keep.
12:37:33 But that's what I would like to see, is look at
12:37:36 Saturday and Sunday and come back and tell us again the
12:37:47 Tell us what the numbers on there.
12:37:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second to the motion?
12:37:54 There's no second to the motion so it dies.
12:37:56 Now, again, I think it's important if this issue is
12:38:00 going to be brought back, which is not what I
12:38:02 understood today, this is strictly to deal with the
12:38:05 homelessness issue, and so I think if you are going to
12:38:08 address the panhandling that needs to be taken up by
12:38:10 the full council.
12:38:13 So there's no second on that motion.
12:38:16 We will take up new business at this time.
12:38:19 Any new business from council?
12:38:21 I have one item.
12:38:22 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone) express sympathy for
12:38:36 the family of another cyclist that was killed last
12:38:46 I just didn't want that to go unmentioned.
12:38:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
12:38:50 Thank you all of you again.
12:38:52 We have a request from the city administration that we
12:38:54 add to our March 3rd agenda for the report on the
12:38:59 city annual sustainability report.
12:39:02 I will move that.
12:39:03 Is there a second?
12:39:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
12:39:05 All in favor?
12:39:08 >> Okay.
12:39:08 Any other business needs to come before City Council?
12:39:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to receive and file.
12:39:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
12:39:15 All in favor?
12:39:17 Any other business?
12:39:18 No other business, we stand adjourned.
12:39:22 (The meeting adjourned at 12:40 p.m.)
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