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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP
Thursday, April 28, 2011
9:00 a.m. session
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>>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The City Council is called to order.

09:03:00 Roll call.

09:03:01 [Roll Call]

09:03:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The chair yields to the honorable

09:03:10 Lisa Montelione.

09:03:12 >> You just like saying that, don't you, Charlie?

09:03:16 >> I love saying "Lisa Montelione," because I'm about

09:03:20 the only one that can say it.

09:03:21 >> Well, I would like to welcome Reverend Sara

09:03:25 Zimmerman, from the Universalist Unitarian Church.




09:03:35 Thank you for being here, Reverend.

09:03:36 All rise.

09:03:37 >> This prayer is from the second century.

09:03:50 (off microphone)

09:03:53 May I never rejoice in the ill fortune of one who has

09:04:20 wronged me.

09:04:21 May I to the extent of my power give help to all who

09:04:26 are in one.

09:04:27 May I never fail a friend.

09:04:31 May I respect myself.

09:04:35 May I always keep tame that which rages within me.

09:04:39 May I accustom myself to be gentle and never be angry

09:04:44 with others because of circumstances.

09:04:48 May I know good people and follow in their footsteps.

09:04:54 We ask this in the name of all that is holy.

09:04:58 Amen.

09:04:59 (Pledge of Allegiance)

09:05:20 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Chairman, I would like to remove

09:05:22 item number 3 and reschedule for May 19th.

09:05:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Reddick.

09:05:27 Seconded by Mr. Suarez.

09:05:29 All in favor?




09:05:32 Passes unanimously.

09:05:33 Mr. Reddick, he's going to make some accommodations of

09:05:39 people that are deserving.

09:05:40 >> Good morning, Mr. Chair and members of the council.

09:05:54 It's an honor to stand here this morning as we

09:05:56 recognize our Officer of the Month and today it's Aaron

09:06:05 Campbell.

09:06:07 I would like to turn it over to the chief to give us an

09:06:09 overview.

09:06:11 >> Chief Castor: Good morning.

09:06:17 It's my pleasure, one of the highlights of my job to be

09:06:19 able to present to you some of Tampa's finest.

09:06:22 Today we have Aaron Campbell.

09:06:24 Come on.

09:06:26 Aaron hasn't been with us for long.

09:06:29 Actually, he was sworn in in July of 2010.

09:06:32 But he came to us as a homicide detective from Polk

09:06:36 County.

09:06:36 So he has a great deal of experience.

09:06:38 And he certainly has distinguished himself with the

09:06:41 Tampa Police Department since he's been here.

09:06:44 Anyone out there thinking about committing a crime may




09:06:46 not do it in Aaron Campbell's area because you will be

09:06:50 caught.

09:06:50 I want to highlight just a few of the stellar

09:06:53 performances that he has had, most during the month of

09:06:58 January.

09:06:59 And January 1st of 2011, and you guys may be able

09:07:04 to figure this through your keen investigative skills

09:07:07 the type of a crime this was.

09:07:09 A victim allowed a guest into his house, and it was an

09:07:13 argument over money.

09:07:14 The argument turned violent and the suspect armed

09:07:18 herself with a knife and took the individuals money,

09:07:20 stole his wallet and fled.

09:07:21 The next day, Aaron Campbell followed up on that

09:07:24 incident, was able to do a neighborhood survey, get

09:07:27 enough information to identify the suspect and place

09:07:31 her under arrest within 24 hours of the incident.

09:07:34 On the 19th, a burglary occurred on 11th street

09:07:39 which resulted in the theft of a loaded semiautomatic

09:07:42 pistol.

09:07:43 During the investigation, a suspect that was on

09:07:46 probation for other burglaries was developed, but




09:07:49 during an initial interview he denied involvement.

09:07:52 Officer Campbell reviewed the case, requested a chance

09:07:55 to interview the individual himself, and his supervisor

09:07:59 allowed him to do that.

09:08:00 He and his partner went out into the county,

09:08:03 interviewed this individual, and not only got a

09:08:06 confession out of this subject who was a habitual

09:08:10 juvenile offender, but he also wrote a written apology

09:08:14 to the victim, and he recovered the stolen firearm, all

09:08:17 within 24 hours of the crime being committed.

09:08:20 On January 30th, another burglary occurred at a

09:08:23 group home on Curtis street.

09:08:27 And during the investigation it was discovered that a

09:08:29 second residence had also been burglarized.

09:08:32 Officer Campbell and his partner conducted a meticulous

09:08:37 investigation.

09:14:45 (Commendation presented to Driver-Engineer Deborah Ann

09:14:45 Lawton, Tampa Fire Rescue)

09:19:30 [ Applause ]

09:19:55 >> We would like to give this commendation to you for

09:19:59 being chosen as firefighter of the quarter for the

09:20:02 period beginning April 2011.




09:20:10 [ Applause ]

09:20:11 >> Congratulations.

09:20:13 Steve Stickley representing Stepps Towing Service.

09:20:17 We would like to present this firefighter statute to

09:20:20 you for a job well done.

09:20:21 And we also have a gift card to Lee Roy Selmon.

09:20:26 Thank you.

09:20:27 [ Applause ]

09:20:30 >> On behalf of Bright House networks, I would like to

09:20:37 present with you complimentary service for the next

09:20:39 three months awarded by Bright House services.

09:20:42 Congratulations.

09:20:43 [ Applause ]

09:20:47 >> Jake Cohan, Tampa Firefighters, local 754.

09:20:53 Debbie, I would like to present with you this plaque

09:20:55 and a gift certificate to a local restaurant.

09:20:58 Well deserved.

09:20:58 Thank you.

09:21:01 [ Applause ]

09:21:04 >> Carla Armstrong from the Straz center for the

09:21:07 performing arts.

09:21:09 Officer Campbell, we appreciate everything that you do




09:21:11 so much for our community.

09:21:13 And we want you to enjoy yourself for an evening.

09:21:18 A great time.

09:21:22 [ Applause ]

09:21:26 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I'm not going to ask you anything.

09:21:28 One of the things that I wanted to make sure that you

09:21:32 know, when these folks show up on a job, their lives

09:21:35 are on the line just like the police officers.

09:21:37 And we really appreciate that.

09:21:39 Most people don't think about it.

09:21:40 But every day when they show up at the station, or show

09:21:44 up down at the police station for their assignments

09:21:47 they go out in the field and put their lives on the

09:21:49 line for you and me.

09:21:50 We always appreciate that.

09:21:51 Sometimes we don't say that often enough and I want you

09:21:54 to know that we appreciate what you do.

09:21:57 Another thing that you all do that people don't

09:21:58 recognize is a community service.

09:22:00 The things you do after hours.

09:22:02 The things that you do for other organizations in

09:22:04 support of the police and for the firefighters.




09:22:07 And those things are greatly appreciated as well.

09:22:09 The kids are always excited to see the fire trucks and

09:22:12 the rescue trucks and getting an understanding of what

09:22:15 it means to protect our lives and protect us and the

09:22:18 community.

09:22:19 So because of all of that, these different folks

09:22:22 decided they want to honor you, and you will get a

09:22:25 photographic package for you and your family from Bryn

09:22:28 Allen, and dinner for you and whoever you wish at

09:22:34 Bern's steakhouse.

09:22:37 Let me tell you something about the chief.

09:22:40 [ Laughter ]

09:22:41 I let him hold this for a minute, you know, and I saw

09:22:45 him looking at it, and saying, should I give this to

09:22:48 her?

09:22:48 The letter is here.

09:22:50 But the certificate, I was wondering if it was still

09:22:52 going to be here when he got up here but it was.

09:22:55 The chief is a great guy and he supports and

09:22:57 appreciates all the folks that serve under him so

09:23:00 thanks very much for what you do and thank you for

09:23:02 protecting us every day.




09:23:03 [ Applause ]

09:23:09 >> Thank you very much.

09:23:12 The fire department has never been just a job to me.

09:23:15 It's always been like family.

09:23:17 And although there are others, I'm sure, that are more

09:23:21 deserving of this recognition, I promise you there is

09:23:24 no one that is more humble or more honored than I am

09:23:28 today.

09:23:28 Thank you so much.

09:23:31 [ Applause ]

09:23:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Councilman Capin said I will be

09:23:51 absent from the workshop.

09:23:54 And Mary Mulhern said I regret I will be unable to

09:23:57 attend on April 28th.

09:23:59 I need a motion to receive and file.

09:24:01 So moved by Mr. Reddick, seconded by Mr. Suarez.

09:24:06 All in favor say Aye.

09:24:10 Approved unanimously.

09:24:12 Next we have a presentation to the water department by

09:24:29 Mike Suarez.

09:24:30 >> We have a commendation here for City of Tampa water

09:24:33 department for drinking water week.




09:24:35 And I am going to read the commendation.

09:24:39 City Council of Tampa designates drinking water week

09:24:45 and also encourages all citizens to join in the efforts

09:24:48 of protecting our source waters from pollution,

09:24:51 practice water conservation, and to get involved in

09:24:53 local water issues.

09:24:55 The City Council congratulates and gives its heartfelt

09:24:58 thanks to all the dedicated men and women of our water

09:25:00 department who work tirelessly to ensure that over

09:25:03 600,000 citizens are provided the finest water in the

09:25:05 country each and every day.

09:25:07 It is with pleasure that we provide this commendation

09:25:10 to the City of Tampa water department.

09:25:11 >> Thank you very much.

09:25:18 I would like to take this opportunity to recognize the

09:25:21 very hardworking men and women that work behind the

09:25:26 scenes 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, to produce and

09:25:33 deliver safe, clean, high-quality drinking water to the

09:25:40 citizens of the City of Tampa and unincorporated

09:25:43 Hillsborough County.

09:25:45 There is nothing more core and essential than

09:25:49 delivering drinking water.




09:25:53 I would like to take the opportunity to brag for a

09:25:56 second or two.

09:25:58 We are still the only treatment plant in the State of

09:26:01 Florida to be awarded the prestigious ten-year

09:26:06 director's award from the partnership for safe water,

09:26:11 in recognition for superior drinking water quality.

09:26:15 So we are still to date the only treatment plant that

09:26:20 ha has received that award.

09:26:21 That's considered a very prestigious award in our

09:26:25 industry.

09:26:26 And I would like to add that for drinking water week,

09:26:30 the Tampa water department offers water efficiency

09:26:34 tools and information including three toilet leak

09:26:38 detection tablets, low-flow plumbing fixtures and rain

09:26:43 sensors.

09:26:44 Please visit us on line at tampagov.net slash water or

09:26:52 274-8121.

09:26:54 Thank you very much.

09:26:57 [ Applause ]

09:27:04 >> Let me just say, Mr. Baird and Mr. Suarez, we have

09:27:09 taken water for granted for many years.

09:27:11 Ten years ago I said water is going to be just like




09:27:14 oil.

09:27:15 And I'm not issuing no warning shots over the Bowe but

09:27:19 I will tell you one thing F.this city doesn't do

09:27:22 something in the next ten years, I won't be around

09:27:24 possibly, but I can guarantee, you are going to run out

09:27:27 of water after ten years.

09:27:29 So if we don't make some headway and change and

09:27:32 innovate, you see, at this time same water we have had

09:27:36 here for millions of years, but the population keeps

09:27:38 increasing.

09:27:40 And when that happens, you are going to run out of

09:27:43 water.

09:27:43 And unless this city does something bold, it will run

09:27:47 out of water after ten years.

09:27:49 So I think Mr. Baird is well aware of this.

09:27:52 I think we have a great water department.

09:27:54 And if we don't do something, you think the cost of

09:27:58 water is high now?

09:27:59 It's very inexpensive to what it's going to be.

09:28:02 That's all I am going to say now.

09:28:04 Thanks very much, Mr. Baird.

09:28:05 All right.




09:28:07 We have certainly public comments, up to 30 minutes,

09:28:13 three minutes a person.

09:28:14 At the end of a workshop.

09:28:15 So I'm going to ask the city who is going to discuss

09:28:20 item number 5 to come forward, and we'll discuss the

09:28:25 noise ordinance and then open it up for comments from

09:28:27 the floor.

09:28:27 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.

09:28:36 What we have prepared, you got a memo earlier this week

09:28:41 kind of outlining the history of where we are.

09:28:44 As many of you probably know, we have about five, maybe

09:28:47 six years ago New York City now, reacted to a number of

09:28:51 court cases that requires very specific measurement and

09:28:56 precise reading of noise levels in order to have noise

09:29:00 enforcement.

09:29:01 And we developed a process through which, from a

09:29:06 property line, there would be a noise meter that would

09:29:10 measure specific decibel limits, both within the

09:29:13 downtown Channelside and Ybor area, and then the

09:29:16 different standard than the rest of the city.

09:29:19 That process worked very well for noise sources that

09:29:23 are commercial or industrial in nature.




09:29:25 They are from a particular operation.

09:29:28 They are sustained.

09:29:30 They are measurable over time.

09:29:32 And we have had very good experience with how that has

09:29:36 worked.

09:29:37 We are not proposing to change any of that process

09:29:40 that's in place now for commercial and industrial

09:29:44 operations in particular.

09:29:46 But what we have experienced is difficulty in enforcing

09:29:50 our noise standards for those noise sources that don't

09:29:53 lend themselves to that kind of a measure of process.

09:29:58 Either they are moving because it's a mobile source, or

09:30:00 there's not a clearly identified property line to

09:30:03 measure from.

09:30:04 The most common example is where you have got someone

09:30:11 with a mobile sound system or a bullhorn that may be in

09:30:16 a public space, maybe on a right-of-way, maybe be on a

09:30:19 roadway, and they are interfering with activities in

09:30:24 buildings and parks and various different other

09:30:29 operations, maybe going on on private or public

09:30:33 property.

09:30:33 What we have been working on is finding a system,




09:30:39 regulatory system that will work, to measure and

09:30:42 enforce on those sources without disturbing the system

09:30:46 we have in place that I described.

09:30:48 But that's consistent with the case law to the Second

09:30:51 District Court of Appeals, which is very narrow and is

09:30:54 very protective of people's first amendment rights to

09:30:57 free speech and to make noise.

09:31:04 I'll turn it over to Rebecca Kert who will walk you

09:31:09 through a proposal from Miami-Dade that has been upheld

09:31:13 that allows for basically a balancing of the right of

09:31:18 the individual who is making the noise against the

09:31:22 rights of the unwilling listener, and would not be

09:31:26 measured by a decibel meter but would be a presumption

09:31:31 or proxy for that based on an audible noise from a

09:31:35 certain distance.

09:31:36 We will need to determine what that certain distance is

09:31:39 in order to come up with an approximation for our noise

09:31:44 levels.

09:31:44 But Rebecca will walk you through that concept and

09:31:48 explain to you where we are in relation to a couple of

09:31:50 pending court cases that the city is party to but is

09:31:54 relevant to this issue.




09:31:55 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.

09:32:01 As Mr. Fletcher said, this area regulating noise is a

09:32:06 very difficult issue.

09:32:08 For those who weren't on council when you last made

09:32:11 your changes five or six years ago that was a three

09:32:15 year process which involved hiring outside experts from

09:32:18 the University of Florida, a number of meetings with

09:32:21 the community to come up with the regulations that you

09:32:22 have now.

09:32:23 I can tell that you with the regulations you have now,

09:32:25 you have been able to successfully prosecute businesses

09:32:29 that have been violating the noise ordinance.

09:32:32 One of the problems that you had with your previous

09:32:34 standards which did not have a decibel level, they were

09:32:37 more subjective, is that even if they met all the

09:32:42 Constitutional tests that you had to meet you also had

09:32:45 difficulty of prosecuting the case because you were not

09:32:48 able to go in with the set standard.

09:32:50 So part of what we are trying to come up with is

09:32:53 dealing with some conflicting case law to make sure

09:32:55 that your ordinance is Constitutional as well as a

09:32:58 practical level if we go into court you can convince a




09:33:01 judge and a jury that factually this person has

09:33:04 violated the regulations.

09:33:06 As Mr. Fletcher said, when you have someone with some

09:33:09 hand-held sound amplification that's in the

09:33:14 right-of-way, one of the issues we have right now is

09:33:16 that the decibel level, you either measure from the

09:33:18 property line as the noise source, or depending upon

09:33:24 what place you are in the city.

09:33:28 From the right-of-way, I think we are justified in

09:33:30 looking for a different strategy.

09:33:32 After reviewing a lot of case law in the state, which

09:33:34 to be perfectly frank right now we have some conflicts

09:33:38 between the district Court of Appeal, and also looking

09:33:40 at the federal case law that from our circuit court of

09:33:44 appeal, we have found a couple of things that we do

09:33:47 believe will be legally defensible as well as

09:33:50 practically effective.

09:33:53 First of all, the United States Supreme Court has

09:33:56 upheld a standard for a noise ordinance where noise

09:34:01 that's unseasonably loud and raucous.

09:34:04 They have said that is not overbroad and not

09:34:06 unconstitutionally vague.




09:34:08 However, from a practical matter that could be

09:34:11 difficult to prove in court.

09:34:12 We looked around the state, a number of different

09:34:15 approaches that were out there, and one that has been

09:34:17 upheld in the federal court system is an approach from

09:34:19 Miami-Dade which balances a couple of the different

09:34:21 approaches down there.

09:34:22 It starts with prohibiting noise that is unreasonably

09:34:26 loud and raucous but it also contains a presumption

09:34:29 that that noise is unreasonably loud and raucous if

09:34:32 that noise is audible from a distance.

09:34:36 In that case it was 100 feet.

09:34:38 We do believe that that is a practical and legally

09:34:41 defensible.

09:34:41 However, the concept of the plainly audible at a

09:34:46 certain number of feet is currently being challenged at

09:34:49 the Second DCA.

09:34:52 We felt when we started this process, reviewing this,

09:34:55 that we were on very firm ground.

09:34:57 We still believe we are on firm ground.

09:34:59 But because we are now awaiting an opinion from the

09:35:01 Second District court of appeals, that could very




09:35:04 directly affect this.

09:35:05 At this point we would just ask that you allow us to

09:35:09 continue to monitor that case and get back to you.

09:35:11 Just so now the status of that case, it was appealed to

09:35:14 the 2nd district Court of Appeal last march, it's

09:35:18 been fully briefed, they had oral argument on that case

09:35:21 in January.

09:35:22 At this point we are just waiting an order from the

09:35:25 2nd district court of appeals.

09:35:27 I'm available for any questions.

09:35:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.

09:35:30 Can you in a minute or so tell us how we got to the

09:35:34 DCA, and why, for the rest of us, I think you and I had

09:35:39 a little conversation yesterday about an individual in

09:35:41 a car or something.

09:35:42 >>REBECCA KERT: The case on appeal in the 2nd

09:35:45 district Court of Appeal that case is actually

09:35:48 challenging the state statute that deals with stereo

09:35:52 noise emanating from motor vehicles, and that has been

09:35:55 upheld in certain districts.

09:36:00 Right now that very issue is up?

09:36:02 Front of the 2nd district Court of Appeals that use




09:36:06 it is plainly audible standards.

09:36:08 Some of the issues we are directly facing within the

09:36:10 city but has come up over the past year or so, we had a

09:36:13 number of complaints from businesses as well as patrons

09:36:16 of the businesses.

09:36:17 For example, on the places where you have sidewalk

09:36:19 cafes, where you have balconies, that people are having

09:36:23 noise on the public right-of-way but doesn't allow them

09:36:25 to enjoy their meals.

09:36:27 Certainly, you know, the approach we are taking to

09:36:31 enforce is disorderly conduct case that the state

09:36:37 charges, you have to have two witnesses that are

09:36:39 prepared to come forward.

09:36:40 So what we are looking for right now is some

09:36:43 flexibility, some options for Tampa Police Department

09:36:47 to use in enforcing the noise regulation.

09:36:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions by council members?

09:36:53 Mr. Suarez?

09:36:54 >> There are two standards that you mentioned.

09:36:59 One was plainly audible.

09:37:00 Then you said there's another case about 100 feet.

09:37:03 Part of the issue that we have been having -- and I




09:37:06 know you are aware of this -- is that the distance

09:37:08 between homes is so close that it is plainly audible

09:37:13 from just being inside the house.

09:37:17 Is the plainly audible doctrine or procedure process

09:37:20 going to be something that we can actually put in place

09:37:24 so that our police officer that's called on the scene

09:37:28 can say, listen, I can hear it from the street or when

09:37:31 I come up to the door of that home and say this is

09:37:38 something we cannot have, you have to lower that

09:37:41 volume.

09:37:41 Do you understand what I am saying?

09:37:42 Two competing aspects.

09:37:46 And I know they are in two different DCAs, correct?

09:37:50 >> Yes.

09:37:51 >> Okay.

09:37:51 Which one is going to be controlling?

09:37:57 Can we do it in terms of all aspects as opposed to just

09:38:00 right-of-way versus plainly audible?

09:38:04 >>REBECCA KERT: Well, at the current time the issue

09:38:06 that we have been looking at is from the right-of-way,

09:38:10 because we do believe that the decibel levels that you

09:38:13 have, the subjective standard, is the most legally




09:38:19 defensible as well as practically the most effective.

09:38:22 And when you are looking at some of the residential

09:38:24 areas and trying to do the 100 feet or plainly audible

09:38:29 standards, something similar to what we are doing to

09:38:32 the right-of-way, we haven't proposed that yet, and

09:38:34 frankly, I wouldn't want to go much further down that

09:38:37 line until we see what comes out of the 2nd

09:38:40 district court of appeals and how they expand to that

09:38:42 standard.

09:38:42 >> Okay.

09:38:44 When are those decision coming down?

09:38:46 >> It could come out any day.

09:38:49 The last thing that happened was oral argument.

09:38:52 It's been fully briefed.

09:38:53 And so I'm checking on a daily or weekly basis to see

09:38:57 when the opinion comes out.

09:38:58 >> One last question.

09:38:59 Do you foresee when we do put this in place, let's say

09:39:03 we do put an ordinance that's going to be legally

09:39:05 defensible, that it would be code enforcement or police

09:39:09 that would primarily enforce that?

09:39:12 What is your standpoint on that?




09:39:14 >>REBECCA KERT: Tampa Police Department currently

09:39:16 enforces it and we would believe that Tampa Police

09:39:18 Department would be the most effective agency to

09:39:22 continue to enforce it.

09:39:22 >> Thank you.

09:39:24 >>MIKE SUAREZ:

09:39:35 >>VINCE PARDO: Speaking for my office and for members

09:39:41 from the Ybor community, when we get to public comment.

09:39:43 The main issue that we have been dealing with in Ybor,

09:39:46 in effect, this body has the correspondence from the

09:39:50 Ybor Development Corporation, the official community

09:39:52 advisory committee on record for this past year, and we

09:39:56 dealt with legal staff and with other departments.

09:40:00 The main thing that we are experiencing in Ybor City is

09:40:02 in fact amplified noise.

09:40:05 And we know that we have dealt with that, and right now

09:40:09 this is the best way to go on this.

09:40:11 But I think as we talk about, from home to home, and I

09:40:15 get the Monday morning reports from TPD every Monday,

09:40:19 after the task force.

09:40:20 We are measuring noise.

09:40:22 The club, open air environments are in compliance now.




09:40:26 Our current ordinance is working.

09:40:27 I haven't had a resident complain on noise in probably

09:40:31 over a year.

09:40:32 Once in a while, you get something out of the ordinary

09:40:35 but generally very well compared to what we experienced

09:40:38 over the last few years.

09:40:40 Our big issue right now is bullhorns on the sidewalk,

09:40:44 right in front of people that are sitting at an outdoor

09:40:48 cafe, the balcony, waiters say I don't want to sit down

09:40:53 and enjoy a glass of wine or meal in this environment

09:40:56 and leaving Ybor City.

09:40:58 I think a lot of things happen in Ybor, the general

09:41:01 district and downtown kind of grow into more of an

09:41:03 environment of a cafe society, you will see more in

09:41:08 downtown than Channel District.

09:41:10 Right now it's pretty well centered but noise is for

09:41:16 our purposes, talking about this, and I think from the

09:41:19 correspondence you have had from the YCDC board, and I

09:41:22 think some of the merchants you will hear a little

09:41:24 later.

09:41:25 Thank you.

09:41:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.




09:41:27 Any other city staff?

09:41:28 We go to the public sector on item number 5.

09:41:31 We have three minutes in a 30-minute time frame.

09:41:35 >> I'm Ed Tillou.

09:41:45 I come from north Tampa, sulfur spring, and I'm trying

09:41:49 to speak on item 5 even though that isn't what I came

09:41:53 to speak on.

09:41:53 Hopefully I can have a little time to speak about what

09:41:56 I wanted to speak about, the last minute I didn't get a

09:41:59 chance to in the three minutes.

09:42:01 I think here, what's been brought up is largely

09:42:06 enforceable problems.

09:42:07 Like I think you have cultural issues here.

09:42:10 Bullhorns in Ybor City, mobile sound systems, mobile

09:42:14 sound systems is something that originated with America

09:42:19 without noise, based in Wisconsin.

09:42:21 They sent somebody here and the guy, I don't know where

09:42:24 he was.

09:42:24 I think that's pretty much been brought under control.

09:42:28 However, a bigger problem it was.

09:42:31 But there's a much more serious noise pollution

09:42:33 problem.




09:42:33 And my perspective on this is as an environmental

09:42:38 engineer I have come to believe that noise pollution is

09:42:40 the number one environmental issue, a very serious

09:42:44 quality of life issue.

09:42:45 And the problem is one that's mobile.

09:42:48 Not mobile sound systems, again largely a cultural

09:42:51 issue.

09:42:52 It's people disconnecting their mufflers because the

09:42:56 price of gasoline has gone up.

09:42:58 And, I mean, you find trucks doing this, trucking

09:43:02 companies doing this, and one of the things is that you

09:43:05 have got this thing about a tuned exhaust system, and

09:43:11 there's some sharp mechanics around town that get

09:43:14 students, maybe USF students, and they tell them, well,

09:43:18 I'm tuning your exhaust, and really all they are doing

09:43:20 is disconnecting the muffler.

09:43:22 I have had one tuned exhaust system out of like 100

09:43:27 attempts, and if this law starts being enforced on

09:43:30 mufflers, then what you are going to have is maybe not

09:43:33 20 or $30 off the fine to tell who these mechanics are

09:43:39 that are disconnecting the mufflers, because that

09:43:42 really doesn't save gas.




09:43:44 And what you need is public education.

09:43:46 You are not really saving gas by disconnecting your

09:43:48 muffler.

09:43:49 Another serious noise pollution problem is cell phones.

09:43:53 People talk loud on cell phones right on top of someone

09:43:56 else.

09:43:57 For instance, Hart had a little announcement, please

09:44:00 don't talk loud when you are on a cell phone, and that

09:44:03 worked.

09:44:04 It really worked.

09:44:05 But then they yanked it.

09:44:06 The same thing applies to these cars without mufflers.

09:44:10 Let the people know they are not really saving gas.

09:44:13 They are burning their valves, so on and so forth.

09:44:17 Maybe I have a little time to talk about red light

09:44:19 cameras, because the tattooed fellow last week reminded

09:44:24 me.

09:44:24 >> (off microphone).

09:44:31 >> Okay, those fine.

09:44:32 But I tend to try to address that.

09:44:41 But what about three minutes?

09:44:42 >> After the meeting I will let you speak.




09:44:44 If you are speaking about noise, and you are wasting

09:44:49 your time now.

09:44:50 >> As I say, those are the fundamental things to raise

09:44:54 about noise, is vehicular, not sound systems in the

09:44:57 vehicles but the must have letters are the main thing.

09:45:00 The places you will find that a lot is along Florida,

09:45:04 around waters, and around skipper, but of course that's

09:45:12 in the county, and then Fletcher, but that's --

09:45:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thanks very much.

09:45:20 Next, please.

09:45:21 >> My name is Betty bailer and my address is 3003

09:45:34 source street.

09:45:34 I live in district 5, Mr. Reddick's district.

09:45:37 I'm here this morning to talk about what several

09:45:42 communities or neighborhoods are experiencing.

09:45:44 They are Rainbow Heights, east on Heights, Oak Park,

09:45:50 Highland pines.

09:45:51 It seems that we all have the same problems.

09:45:53 We have the cars who come through, they play the music

09:45:57 so loud, and most of them do not live in our

09:46:00 neighborhood.

09:46:01 And it just shakes the windows and the doors of our




09:46:04 homes.

09:46:06 We also now have block parties that are coming into our

09:46:10 neighborhood.

09:46:11 And I'll tell you right now, I have a list from March

09:46:15 3rd up until today of almost 20 calls that I have

09:46:19 made to the police department concerning loud music.

09:46:25 Just loud music.

09:46:26 And these block parties are off the chain.

09:46:31 They come into the neighborhood.

09:46:32 They come from all over.

09:46:34 Pinellas County as well.

09:46:35 They invade a neighborhood.

09:46:37 And they just set up shop.

09:46:39 The noise, it's just an ongoing thing.

09:46:46 I had a problem with that on the 3rd of April that

09:46:48 I had to call about so many people and it was awful.

09:46:52 And I was sitting in the middle of this.

09:46:55 I know the police department can't solve all of our

09:46:59 problems but this is a quality of life for all of the

09:47:02 people who live in these communities, and we all have

09:47:05 the same concerns.

09:47:06 Thank you.




09:47:06 >>FRANK REDDICK: Before you leave, when you say block

09:47:23 parties, who organize these?

09:47:25 The resident in the community or these organizations

09:47:27 coming into the community?

09:47:28 >> They are organizations.

09:47:30 And I understand that this is put on the Internet.

09:47:33 And these people just come in.

09:47:35 And they are just there.

09:47:37 I mean, I had over 1,000 people in my neighborhood on

09:47:40 the 3rd of April.

09:47:43 They were everywhere.

09:47:44 They were triple parked in the mark.

09:47:46 They were on the sidewalk.

09:47:49 They parked at my community house.

09:47:52 I refused to let them park in front of my house.

09:47:55 And I was asked, lady, can I park here?

09:47:57 I'll give you $5.

09:47:59 Keep it moving.

09:48:00 I don't need it.

09:48:01 But this is awful.

09:48:02 And I hear now that they have set up shop at 23rd

09:48:05 Avenue and 49th street, and they do this weekly.




09:48:10 I have been getting calls from people who live in that

09:48:12 particular area.

09:48:13 >> If I may, Mr. Chairman.

09:48:17 Mrs -- Mr. Fletcher, do they have to have permits to

09:48:22 organize a block party?

09:48:24 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.

09:48:26 It depends on how it's set up.

09:48:28 If they are basically blocking and closing a street,

09:48:31 which is what you usually think of when you hear the

09:48:34 term block party, yeah, they would need a permit to do

09:48:37 that from the right-of-way department for a street

09:48:39 closing.

09:48:41 If it's a more informal gathering, that would be a

09:48:49 tougher question.

09:48:50 But large events like this especially if they are

09:48:52 attracting over a thousand people in the neighborhood

09:48:54 it typically would require some type of permit from the

09:48:57 city remitting to putting on the event even if it was

09:48:59 on private property.

09:49:01 Exactly what permit that would be would be dependent on

09:49:04 the type of event, writs located and how it's

09:49:07 advertised.




09:49:07 >> Mr. Fletcher, let's say I'm renting a home in her

09:49:21 neighborhood.

09:49:21 And I say, I want to have a party.

09:49:24 Weave we advertise on the Internet and I'm charging

09:49:26 people to come in.

09:49:27 Okay.

09:49:28 Or coming to the park that's near my house.

09:49:33 I mean, that's something that would have to be

09:49:35 regulated, wouldn't it?

09:49:37 >> Depending on how it's done, there are a few

09:49:40 instances I can see that and we would probably have to

09:49:43 look at the specific event and see which of those

09:49:45 ordinances would cover it.

09:49:49 Entirely private activities and private property may

09:49:53 not fall within a permit per se.

09:49:56 But if they are causing cars to stack up in the

09:50:02 right-of-way, blocking traffic, then it would require

09:50:03 right-of-way permit.

09:50:05 If there's alcohol involved, all the alcohol rules.

09:50:10 If it's a rave, we have separate rules on raves.

09:50:13 So depending on the nature of the event, it would

09:50:16 implicate a number of different ordinances that could




09:50:18 come in to play.

09:50:20 >> Thank you.

09:50:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other questions by council

09:50:25 members?

09:50:25 Thank you very much.

09:50:29 Just for the record, the light is not working but the

09:50:32 time is. If you don't see the green, yellow and red on

09:50:37 this light right here, it is working.

09:50:40 It's just the bulb that is broke. We are going to

09:50:43 order another one.

09:50:44 >> I'm in Frank Reddick's district and I'm glad to see

09:50:48 my City Council members.

09:50:50 My name is Clay Daniels, 3708 east north bay.

09:50:55 I have 500 petitions of people that complained about

09:50:59 the noise problem.

09:50:59 The first time I complained about the problem Mayor

09:51:02 Buckhorn was a City Councilor.

09:51:04 I have been coming up here all this time trying to get

09:51:06 something done about the noise problem.

09:51:07 The noise is so bad, I hate to go home at night.

09:51:10 We sleep with ear plugs on.

09:51:12 You can ask each one of these crime watch programs in




09:51:15 East Tampa, they have a consistent problem with noise.

09:51:18 The houses is too close together for somebody, because

09:51:23 I can spit next door to my neighbor it's so close

09:51:26 diagnose.

09:51:27 When you call the Tampa Police Department, they say, we

09:51:29 don't know how to use the meter.

09:51:31 We don't have enough meters.

09:51:32 And they can come out and measure, and it says it's not

09:51:38 loud enough because the wind and the rain, that's why

09:51:42 some cities don't use that.

09:51:43 So, you know, half of the police don't even know how to

09:51:46 use it.

09:51:46 So we want to do a way with that.

09:51:48 We want when the officer come out and said the music is

09:51:54 too loud and the complainant says it's too loud, it's

09:51:57 too loud.

09:51:58 Now, maybe many of you all are sleeping at night.

09:52:00 But I'm not sleeping at night.

09:52:02 I have been complaining about this for ten years and

09:52:04 nothing has been done.

09:52:05 I think we have waited long enough to do something

09:52:07 about this problem.




09:52:08 We just wait and wait and wait.

09:52:12 It's time to do something this month, this date, right

09:52:14 now.

09:52:14 We have been waiting too long for this problem.

09:52:17 And I just hope when I'm dead and gone that other

09:52:20 people like me won't have to suffer like this, because

09:52:22 we are taking a beating.

09:52:23 When you hate to go home, when you pay taxes, that is

09:52:27 terrible.

09:52:27 I sleep with ear plugs.

09:52:29 I can't hear my TV.

09:52:30 You can't run the computer go out and tell the neighbor

09:52:33 turn the music off they get mad and cuss you out.

09:52:37 That's how bad it is.

09:52:38 And it's all over East Tampa.

09:52:39 We are taking a beating from this noise.

09:52:41 And I think you all don't want to live like this.

09:52:44 It's a miserable life.

09:52:45 So I'm asking you all today, I hope you all will

09:52:48 consider, I'm begging you all, asking you all to do

09:52:52 something about this problem.

09:52:53 We have waited long enough.




09:52:54 It's time to do something now.

09:52:55 >> (off microphone)

09:53:09 Green, yellow and red.

09:53:10 They are doing an excellent job.

09:53:11 Very quick.

09:53:12 >> I'm Evelyn Yates, a resident of Channelside, and I

09:53:17 met many of you before at Huey's when we had our

09:53:22 meeting.

09:53:22 The Channelside owners want to share concerns, and we

09:53:25 are also in district 5, so my concerns what the

09:53:36 previous people here, I am echoing that.

09:53:40 I am the person who e-mailed to you videos that

09:53:43 hopefully you had the opportunity to look at.

09:53:45 But going on, I want to share concerns of the

09:53:48 occurrences of the last two weekends.

09:53:50 At 3 a.m. when the bar at 290 south Meridian drive

09:53:55 closed, crowds gathered at the sidewalks.

09:53:58 On the streets, across the street, on the lot.

09:54:05 The crowd defied all city laws.

09:54:07 They were park in the streets with the doors flung

09:54:10 open.

09:54:10 They had their cars.




09:54:13 They were sitting on those cars, urinating in public,

09:54:17 driving over the curbs, in and out of that lot.

09:54:19 The crowd was totally disrespectful, they were rowdy,

09:54:24 bold and loud.

09:54:24 This noise includes the use of boxes, car radios,

09:54:31 screaming voices, to override the other noises.

09:54:34 City Council and City Council attorney office must

09:54:39 concede to the fact that school age children and

09:54:42 infants live at the two towers.

09:54:45 Okay.

09:54:46 That's really important.

09:54:48 Many residents of the towers recently moved to Tampa,

09:54:53 and they are seeing what the city allowed.

09:54:56 When the -- back in 2005 the ordinance was not 85

09:55:04 decibels.

09:55:05 This was changed as the street districts were

09:55:07 developing condos and residents.

09:55:09 Residents moved in without knowing of this change.

09:55:13 Why does the city permit 85 decibels only in the Ybor

09:55:18 City district and Channel District?

09:55:21 After all, think about the annual invasion and the

09:55:25 Gasparilla parade on Bayshore.




09:55:28 That is excessive noise.

09:55:30 So why not make the whole city 85 decibels?

09:55:38 Each district is not just a commercial district or

09:55:40 industrial district.

09:55:41 These three districts have residents right in the heart

09:55:45 of each.

09:55:46 Just like where many of you live, there is a

09:55:49 commercial, and right around the corner from your home.

09:55:55 The towers are clusters of homes built upward.

09:56:00 By the way, the sound ricochets upward.

09:56:04 A new experience for me because I never lived upwards

09:56:07 before.

09:56:08 And so, therefore, the noise is ricocheting.

09:56:11 We come before you to ask the council to help us.

09:56:14 How can you do that?

09:56:16 As you consider the action that you will take, please

09:56:19 remember the two e-mails to you of the past two

09:56:24 weekends.

09:56:25 Reduce the noise level to 70 or 75 decibels in the

09:56:30 Channel District.

09:56:31 Maintain a strong method of monitoring an enforceable

09:56:35 noise ordinance.




09:56:37 Require on-duty police to park and patrol east

09:56:43 Cumberland and Channelside Drive between 1:00 and 4:00.

09:56:50 Thank you.

09:56:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.

09:56:52 I believe the city legal department would like to

09:56:54 address something.

09:56:55 I see they are heads moving.

09:56:57 I am speaking in the direction of the two lawyers here.

09:56:59 I don't listen a lot but I study body language very

09:57:04 closely.

09:57:04 Any discussion of the 85 decibels?

09:57:09 I see things change when I speak a little bit.

09:57:11 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We were just trying to review the

09:57:16 timing.

09:57:16 The noise standards were, in chapter 19, the code

09:57:19 enforcement standards.

09:57:20 So they were in place prior to when it was put into

09:57:24 this provision in chapter 14.

09:57:29 What we were discussing is apparently the point of

09:57:32 measurement change, not necessarily the standard,

09:57:35 although now we are discussing the way decibels are

09:57:39 measured.




09:57:39 Apparently there was a slight modification.

09:57:42 But this area was historically a more commercial

09:57:52 standard.

09:57:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Next, please.

09:57:55 >> Andrew F. Lugris.

09:58:14 I reside at the towers of Channelside.

09:58:19 I am here to represent my son who is the owner of unit

09:58:22 1004 in tower 1.

09:58:25 He is unable to be here so I am acting in his behalf

09:58:28 with power of attorney here to speak about the excess

09:58:31 noise that we have been exposed to during late night,

09:58:33 early-morning hours since moving to the towers in late

09:58:36 January.

09:58:37 We can tolerate the normal city sounds that are

09:58:41 generated, for instance, horns, whistles, trains,

09:58:45 street traffic, sirens and aircraft.

09:58:48 What should not be acceptable for a residential complex

09:58:50 in this city is the noise from open bars and ground

09:58:53 level and rooftops which are allowed to remain open

09:58:56 until 3 a.m. with sound levels of 85 decibels and more.

09:59:01 Attached are copies of my e-mails to the association

09:59:04 manager complaining about noises we are currently




09:59:07 experiencing.

09:59:08 Many of these reports have been submitted to the Tampa

09:59:10 Police Department and the Tampa economic and urban

09:59:14 development department.

09:59:15 This will give you an insight what is happening in our

09:59:21 residential community because of the noise levels which

09:59:22 are currently allowed by Tampa code ordinance section

09:59:26 14-151.

09:59:27 Because of this ordinance we are losing 30 or 40% of

09:59:31 our sleep each week.

09:59:33 From a health standpoint, medical studies have shown

09:59:35 that exposure to loud noise over an extended period of

09:59:38 time results in hearing loss as well as other problems

09:59:42 such as those associated with post-traumatic stress

09:59:46 disorder due to loss of sleep.

09:59:48 Serious consideration must be given now to lowering

09:59:52 current decibel ratings to levels which are presently

09:59:55 in place for residential areas, and to disallow open

09:59:58 bars and streets and roof tops.

10:00:02 The current system adversely affects the quality of

10:00:06 life of our residents.

10:00:11 There are reports and a few pictures showing what




10:00:13 occurs during late night and early morning hours three

10:00:16 to four times a week keeping many of us awake.

10:00:19 I would like to show you just a few pictures of this

10:00:22 past weekend.

10:00:26 This is a parking lot this is a parking lot.

10:00:47 This is a hotdog stand.

10:00:50 And the person barking out, "hotdogs here."

10:00:56 This goes on periodically.

10:00:59 The line of people that comes in here is amazing.

10:01:02 The parking lot is full most of the time.

10:01:06 In the evenings.

10:01:07 This is what that looks like.

10:01:10 And you have to realize, this is across from what I

10:01:12 call a MEGA bar, a 500 patron capacity, 230 patrons are

10:01:22 outdoors, totally not enclosed, partially enclosed but

10:01:25 not all enclosed, so the decibel levels get up there

10:01:29 very high.

10:01:31 I'm on the 10th floor.

10:01:32 And we get readings from the parking lot.

10:01:46 I got an 80. Unfortunately I was unable to take a

10:01:52 picture of it.

10:01:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: (off microphone)




10:02:03 I think all vendors, you have different types of

10:02:06 vendors, you have a yearly permit, some vendors who

10:02:09 have a permit from the property owner, some that don't,

10:02:12 some that are regulated.

10:02:13 Maybe we could speak to that issue.

10:02:16 I'm talking to the legal department.

10:02:17 >> yes, there would be a permit required through the

10:02:27 property owner.

10:02:28 Off the top of my head, I don't know what the hours

10:02:30 are.

10:02:31 As you said, I will have to look at that for you.

10:02:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think that's a first line of

10:02:40 defense.

10:02:40 If they are barking out hotdogs or whatever the vendor

10:02:44 is selling, and I think everyone speaking to this, I

10:02:48 think sleep deprivation is one of the causes of not

10:02:51 being able to function on a daily basis and I can

10:02:54 clearly understand that.

10:02:55 So I think we can do something about that, possibly

10:02:59 even cite the property owner.

10:03:01 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: And the experience with folks

10:03:06 exiting bars is very similar to what we have in Ybor,




10:03:09 some other places in the city.

10:03:11 It may just be that the police department needs to

10:03:15 assign resources to address that issue.

10:03:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I apologize.

10:03:22 I wanted to give everyone the opportunity to speak so

10:03:24 no one is left out.

10:03:25 Next, please.

10:03:26 >> Samuel L. Moon, Sr.

10:03:35 I'm the president of the East Heights Neighborhood

10:03:38 Association crime watch, also second vice chair to East

10:03:42 Tampa.

10:03:43 I stay in the area from 50th street east to 40th

10:03:48 Street west, from Arlington north.

10:03:56 These are the areas that I am complaining about at the

10:03:58 time.

10:04:06 We cannot watch our TV, we cannot talk on the phone

10:04:10 without hearing all the loud noise.

10:04:15 We are talking constantly to the law enforcement

10:04:18 officers about this situation and it's continually

10:04:20 going on every day.

10:04:22 All the time.

10:04:24 And we have senior citizens that live in the area.




10:04:27 Now, some are afraid to complain about the situation,

10:04:32 because of being threatened.

10:04:34 We also have drugs in the area that correspond with

10:04:39 this activity.

10:04:40 So I am praying and asking the City Council if they can

10:04:46 please look into the situation and try to help our

10:04:48 neighborhood.

10:04:48 I appreciate it.

10:04:49 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Going back to the previous speaker,

10:05:02 the problems being -- in the north parking lot of the

10:05:07 St. Pete Times Forum, but associated with an

10:05:14 establishment not part of the forum's property.

10:05:17 >> That's correct.

10:05:21 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So the assemblage of people that

10:05:24 are in that parking lot are associated with the

10:05:27 nightclub.

10:05:28 Now, again getting back to what councilman Suarez was,

10:05:32 I believe, talking about, assembly permits, so it's the

10:05:36 nightclub was going to continue, or the patrons of the

10:05:40 nightclub were going to continue the party, so to

10:05:46 speak, at another location, they would also require a

10:05:49 permit for such, correct?




10:05:54 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If it was a planned, scheduled,

10:05:57 organized event, yes.

10:05:58 But typically what happens in these cases is the

10:06:00 enforcement is on whoever is operating the parking lot.

10:06:04 And as the property owner, they are controlling that

10:06:06 access.

10:06:07 The bar owner typically does not have control outside

10:06:11 of thinks his property boundaries, and these are

10:06:14 activities that occur outside the property.

10:06:16 Boundaries of the bar so the focus would be where the

10:06:19 gathering is at the parking lot.

10:06:22 In this instance, my recollection is that parking is a

10:06:26 legal activity there, so as the chairman indicated the

10:06:31 enforcement would be on the property of the parking lot

10:06:34 owner, and again this is similar to the kind of

10:06:37 activities or problems we have been having in Ybor, and

10:06:39 they have had an enforcement strategy there dealing

10:06:42 with these assembles in the park lots of people

10:06:47 vacating clubs when clubs close.

10:06:49 >> So perhaps to address that particular problem,

10:06:51 perhaps that parking lot could be shut down at a

10:06:56 particular hour?




10:07:03 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Wove an ordinance on the books

10:07:04 related to operation of parking lots and he would can't

10:07:07 deviate from that for one particular parking lot.

10:07:10 We need to look at what the code is and what the

10:07:12 standards are being applied in that district.

10:07:15 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I'm looking to help alleviate the

10:07:18 issues felt by the residents there.

10:07:19 And maybe it's not through the noise ordinance that we

10:07:22 would address that, it's through the parking ordinance

10:07:25 then?

10:07:25 >> Yes, that's actually collect correct.

10:07:28 I believe that's the approach we would take.

10:07:31 >> And when it closes down and goes on to 3 to 5

10:07:38 o'clock a.m.

10:07:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me just say this.

10:07:42 As I'm sitting here listening, how did this happen?

10:07:48 What created this?

10:07:49 Very simple.

10:07:49 City rezoning clubs right in residential areas.

10:07:54 So I'm not blaming anyone but ourselves.

10:07:57 And this is what happens.

10:07:58 So when these things come up, that's why I set a




10:08:03 standard of my own, at a certain time it stops.

10:08:05 If you control the alcohol you control the parking.

10:08:08 But if you don't, this is a result of it.

10:08:10 And I am not against alcohol.

10:08:12 I'm against what it does after a certain period of

10:08:14 time.

10:08:15 But, anyway, next, please.

10:08:17 >> Good morning, City Council.

10:08:25 And women.

10:08:30 We are having a problem.

10:08:34 I'm with the neighborhood crime watch where Ms. Betty

10:08:39 Dale is the president and we are having a problem with

10:08:41 the music, and the block parties, we are having a

10:08:43 problem with that.

10:08:44 Now, I have got the chief of police that lives with me.

10:08:49 I'm the detective.

10:08:51 I have to go outside and see what's going on.

10:08:54 Every Sunday, she goes to watch and -- wash and dry

10:09:00 clothes.

10:09:01 I'm the one that has to listen to all that everything

10:09:05 when she come home, all the cars parked everywhere.

10:09:08 And it's ridiculous.




10:09:10 Used to have it at Riverfront Park.

10:09:13 You moved it from there.

10:09:17 Used to have it at MacFarlane park.

10:09:20 You moved it from there.

10:09:21 I used watch the kid in the park but it's a gang

10:09:30 activity, it's all drugs out there, not just kids going

10:09:33 out and having a good time.

10:09:34 Now they bring them in, little kids in the stroller and

10:09:38 going to the block party.

10:09:40 It's ridiculous. That's all I got to say.

10:09:44 >> I need your name and address.

10:09:45 >> My name is Ronald Anderson,

10:09:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Next, please.

10:09:56 >> Good morning.

10:10:01 Welcome to our new members and welcome back to the old

10:10:03 ones.

10:10:05 My name is Walter Crumbley, 503 south westland Avenue

10:10:10 in Tampa.

10:10:11 I'm the president of Courier City Oscawana homeowners

10:10:15 association.

10:10:21 I'm sure most of you live in a nice neighborhood but

10:10:24 you have blessed us in the city with a number of,




10:10:27 quote, restaurants that stay open till 3:00 in the

10:10:29 morning and create significant problems for us in terms

10:10:32 of noise.

10:10:37 We have got a mix of young singles and rental property,

10:10:41 and older homes and residential property of working

10:10:47 people.

10:10:47 And it's very difficult to get up at 6:00 in the

10:10:52 morning when the noise has been beating on your head

10:10:55 till 10 or 11:00 or even later at night.

10:11:01 It's interesting in this city that construction noise

10:11:03 is regulated.

10:11:06 If you get out there with your nail gun and your hammer

10:11:10 after 7:00 in the evening, you can get cited.

10:11:14 But if you show up with your drum and tambourine and

10:11:20 horn and your loud drunken patrons, nothing happens.

10:11:24 So I'm suggesting that you need to bring all this

10:11:28 together and have it consistent with people that live

10:11:32 in a neighborhood, at least during the week, from

10:11:35 Sunday to Thursday night to get some piece and quiet

10:11:45 after 9:00 at night.

10:11:46 We have tried to work with the City of Tampa police

10:11:49 department, with the noise meter, and invariably the




10:11:56 noise at my house is not quite loud enough.

10:12:02 When I lay down to go to sleep, and then I hear that

10:12:05 distant boom, boom, boom, of somebody's base drum until

10:12:10 11:00 or 12:00 at night during the week.

10:12:12 And I suggest that there's got to be some way that you

10:12:16 can regulate this or give us some peace and quiet.

10:12:20 Thank you.

10:12:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, sir.

10:12:23 Appreciate it very much.

10:12:24 Next, please.

10:12:25 >> Good morning, City Council members.

10:12:30 My name is Kim miner, and I am representing the East

10:12:34 Tampa weed and seed area which most of these

10:12:40 communities leaders or many of them have spoken on

10:12:45 today.

10:12:45 I do want to say good morning to Mr. Reddick who is our

10:12:49 past chair and we lost him because of his City Council

10:12:52 position.

10:12:52 So good morning, Mr. Reddick.

10:12:54 We miss you.

10:12:55 >>FRANK REDDICK: Good morning.

10:12:57 Thank you.




10:12:57 >> Just want to reiterate the fact that in the year and

10:13:01 a half that I have been the weed and seed coordinator,

10:13:04 this has been a predominant issue of loud music.

10:13:09 The same communities, rainbow Heights, Grant Park,

10:13:18 hills, and Highland pines area are within the weed and

10:13:22 seed boundary areas.

10:13:23 Many meetings have been assembled to leaders trying to

10:13:27 come up with a resolution in the community to address

10:13:30 this issue.

10:13:31 So it has been a predominant issue.

10:13:34 And, you know, we just look to this council really

10:13:39 pushing to make some changes for this community.

10:13:42 Thank you.

10:13:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.

10:13:46 And your loss of Mr. Reddick for some has been the gain

10:13:50 for many.

10:13:51 Thank you very much.

10:13:52 Let me say this.

10:13:54 If I may.

10:13:58 All of us are your council members, not only the

10:14:02 district in which you live in.

10:14:03 What we sometimes forget that in districts 4, 5, 6 and




10:14:08 7 which are the four districts of the city that have

10:14:10 the composition of the whole city, you also have three

10:14:12 council members that feel a little slighted because you

10:14:16 don't express your feeling to them so I am going to

10:14:18 tell you who they are.

10:14:20 You have in district 1 the honorable Mike Suarez.

10:14:25 Not that he needs any introduction.

10:14:27 In district number 2 you have Mary Mulhern.

10:14:30 And in district number 3 you have got Yvonne Yolie

10:14:34 Capin.

10:14:35 They would like to hear from you as much as you call

10:14:37 the district council members in 4, 5, 6 and 7 so they

10:14:41 don't feel slighted.

10:14:42 Next, please.

10:14:43 >> Jason Fernandez, restaurant owner operator in Ybor

10:14:53 City here to express my opinion in regards to the bull

10:14:56 horns and the speaking on public right-of-ways in Ybor

10:15:00 City.

10:15:02 I have experienced guests getting up from tables in the

10:15:06 midst of dinner trying to get tables in the interior of

10:15:08 the restaurant or basically asking for checks and

10:15:12 leaving the Ybor City area making it uncomfortable to




10:15:17 return for additional visits, and diversely affecting

10:15:20 my business and I'm asking for help and consideration.

10:15:24 Thank you.

10:15:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, Mr. Fernandez.

10:15:27 Next, please.

10:15:28 >> Good morning.

10:15:32 My name is Bill Pate, the leasing agent for Centro

10:15:37 Ybor, my address is 160 Columbia drive.

10:15:41 One of the things that I wanted to really stress is in

10:15:44 our opinion, we have a lot of economic hardship caused

10:15:47 by these noise makers down on 7th Avenue.

10:15:54 We have got pretty much when we come into -- when we

10:15:57 bring our new tenants for restaurants and so forth,

10:16:00 several of them have patios and balconies, you know,

10:16:05 really wonderful, charming areas.

10:16:07 They should be.

10:16:08 But with the noise makers that come out, people get up

10:16:13 from their tables and they leave.

10:16:29 Anything that we can do to make this more enjoyable

10:16:31 would be helpful.

10:16:32 Thank you.

10:16:32 >> My name is Joe Figueroa.




10:16:36 I own three restaurants concepts in Ybor City, and I

10:16:42 have balcony outside dining, and I would like to

10:16:45 reiterate what Jason said about the bullhorn problem.

10:16:48 There are many indications when my employees cannot get

10:16:51 the customer's order correctly.

10:16:54 We have live music, and we have our own in-house

10:16:58 decibel meters so that we can maintain and be

10:17:01 responsible to the decibel level, and we calibrate them

10:17:05 with the police department.

10:17:06 So we try to act responsibly.

10:17:08 The bullhorn issue, they do not act responsibly,

10:17:12 unfortunately, because of the right-of-way and there's

10:17:14 in a way to measure.

10:17:16 I have lost customers.

10:17:17 It's been a negative impact to tourists in the Ybor

10:17:21 area.

10:17:22 Ybor is a very, very nice entertainment district.

10:17:29 It is finally coming back to where it was many years

10:17:31 ago with the art history and the entertainment factor,

10:17:37 and I would just like to also express my concern about

10:17:39 the bullhorn issue.

10:17:41 Thank you.




10:17:41 >> Thank you very much.

10:17:42 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Sir, a quick question for you.

10:17:49 Where are the bull horns located in relation to your

10:17:52 establishment?

10:17:53 Both of them or --

10:17:55 >> Located, two concepts in central Ybor which is what

10:18:01 bill Pate just mentioned and I also have one on the

10:18:04 corner of 16th and 7th Avenue.

10:18:06 >> Where are they typically located, the bull horns?

10:18:09 >> 16th and 7th Avenue.

10:18:11 >> They are right there at your place?

10:18:12 >> Yes.

10:18:13 We were the headquarters for Mayor Buckhorn's campaign.

10:18:25 He approached me.

10:18:27 We were too small for the runoff.

10:18:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm sorry, Ms. Montelione.

10:18:34 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I did receive an e-mail, actually, I

10:18:37 believe it was addressed to Mary, your legislative

10:18:44 aide, and wants to make sure that becomes part of the

10:18:46 record.

10:18:48 >>: We are going to receive and file all the documents.

10:18:50 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And it also speaks about the bull




10:18:54 horns in Ybor from a resident.

10:18:56 I believe he's the neighborhood association president.

10:19:06 It's affecting residents of Ybor.

10:19:08 And I have a question for legal.

10:19:10 Would that fall under street solicitation?

10:19:23 Are they considered soliciting patrons of other

10:19:28 establishments?

10:19:30 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: What we refer to as street

10:19:32 solicitation ordinance has been limited to interactions

10:19:34 between pedestrians and motor vehicles.

10:19:37 So someone soliciting someone else on foot would not be

10:19:41 covered by that ordinance.

10:19:42 That would probably be a panhandling ordinance or

10:19:45 something else of that nature.

10:19:48 But then separately we would need to regulate noise in

10:19:52 a separate action because of the first amendment

10:19:54 issues.

10:19:54 >> In terms of the first amendment, I think he would

10:20:08 all understand that.

10:20:08 They have a right to be out there talking about

10:20:10 whatever their issue S.and in an e-mail that councilman

10:20:14 Montelione was talking about concerns two issues.




10:20:19 One is the noise and one is the hate-filled message.

10:20:24 When can't do anything about a hate-filled message.

10:20:27 Typically.

10:20:30 And I don't want to get into the specifics.

10:20:32 I know there's restrictions but I don't know what those

10:20:34 restrictions are.

10:20:35 But in terms of the noise itself, the level of noise,

10:20:41 what does the law say currently?

10:20:43 >> What we can't do is just ban amplified sound

10:20:46 equipment.

10:20:47 We have load at that.

10:20:48 That's prohibited.

10:20:49 That was kind of our first blush, prohibiting amplified

10:20:53 sound in the rights-of-way and we can't do.

10:20:56 That what we also can't do is set a lower standard for

10:20:58 the folks that are engaged first of all in speech, then

10:21:03 the establishments enjoy.

10:21:05 So that's why we have come up with this proxy method

10:21:07 where there is a balancing test between the unwilling

10:21:14 listener and the speaker that approximates what the

10:21:17 standard is for that section of the city.

10:21:19 And I know we talked about it being plainly audible is




10:21:23 one thing.

10:21:24 Kind of a reasonable standard, I'm walking on the

10:21:27 street, I am going hear conversations from people as I

10:21:29 pass people.

10:21:30 My expectation is, yeah, I will hear conversation, but

10:21:33 if I am 25 feet away from somebody, I shouldn't have to

10:21:36 hear their conversation.

10:21:41 And to have a plainly audible element, it also has to

10:21:47 have a test of what's reasonable for the speaker and

10:21:50 what's reasonable for the unwilling listener --

10:21:52 listener, which may be slightly different than plainly

10:21:55 audible.

10:21:56 She says I'm right.

10:21:57 >> Well, you still are the city attorney so I would

10:22:01 expect that answer from her.

10:22:04 Okay, thank you.

10:22:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thanks very much.

10:22:08 Next, please.

10:22:08 >> Good morning. I'm a resident of towers of

10:22:14 Channelside.

10:22:15 And I do sympathize with the speakers before me talking

10:22:19 about the bullhorns.




10:22:23 We have been annoyed by those when we have gone to Ybor

10:22:25 City for a dinner and so forth.

10:22:27 And I do find that we walk away from it and get away

10:22:30 from it.

10:22:31 Unfortunately, when you live in a residential community

10:22:33 especially a high-rise residential community, you can't

10:22:36 get away from it.

10:22:38 The sidewalks outside, the restaurants, and the vendors

10:22:45 who choose to make noise, you just can't get away from

10:22:49 it.

10:22:51 2:00, 3:00, 4:00 in the morning they are out there,

10:22:53 they are yelling, they are screaming, they are honking

10:22:56 horns, and you call the police.

10:22:58 Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.

10:23:00 The next Saturday, the next Friday, it's right back

10:23:03 there again.

10:23:04 And I bought my own decibel meter and it's especially

10:23:10 important in the high-rises because there's nothing to

10:23:12 restrict the sound.

10:23:13 It's a direct path into our bedroom from the street

10:23:16 level down below.

10:23:18 There's no cars blocking the sound.




10:23:19 There's no other building.

10:23:21 It's a direct path.

10:23:22 And I have recorded levels of 85 and 87 decibels off of

10:23:31 my meter right off my balcony.

10:23:33 The windows shake at night.

10:23:35 And it's just a problem that needs to be addressed

10:23:38 permanently and without impacting the nightclub owners

10:23:46 and so forth and so on.

10:23:47 They have a business to run.

10:23:48 We are sympathetic to that.

10:23:50 But, at the same time, we like to slope at night.

10:23:52 And that is often not a possibility for us.

10:23:56 Thank you for your time.

10:23:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.

10:23:58 >>MIKE COHEN: I just want to make a comment.

10:24:06 All of the speakers this morning have been from

10:24:11 Channelside and Ybor City in certain areas of East

10:24:15 Tampa.

10:24:16 This is definitely a city-wide problem.

10:24:20 My office has been inundated.

10:24:23 I think more than any other issue over the past three

10:24:25 weeks with noise complaints.




10:24:28 And those complaints are emanating from a variety of

10:24:32 different neighborhoods.

10:24:34 I have heard from people on Harbor Island, people in

10:24:36 Beach Park, people in Hyde Park.

10:24:38 So this is clearly a city-wide problem.

10:24:42 I don't think it's just confined to any specific area.

10:24:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else who has not spoken who

10:24:52 would care to speak on this subject matter?

10:24:54 I see no one.

10:24:55 Let me say this as I try to put this into different

10:24:57 categories.

10:24:58 I think you have the issues of bullhorn.

10:25:00 I think you have the issues of vendors being past the

10:25:08 allowable time, and if we were enforcing that all the

10:25:12 time that would go away.

10:25:14 I think you have the issue of amplified noise on a

10:25:17 drive-by automobile.

10:25:18 If we could catch them all at one time, that would go

10:25:21 away.

10:25:21 But some of these things are much harder to do than

10:25:26 simply.

10:25:27 I think the issue of a vendor being on a private




10:25:29 property can't be restricted.

10:25:31 We passed a year or two ago a vendor -- am I correct,

10:25:35 legal?

10:25:35 Straighten me out anytime.

10:25:37 I made a mistake once and I was wrong.

10:25:39 But what I'm trying to say is, the vendor issue could

10:25:43 be addressed, although we allow vending in the city

10:25:47 under certain conditions because of the hard times,

10:25:49 that doesn't mean we cannot disallow vending at all

10:25:51 times.

10:25:54 By changing the law.

10:25:55 Am I correct?

10:25:56 >> You are correct, Mr. Chairman.

10:25:58 You are also correct when you said there are a variety

10:26:01 of permits that have different hours but none of them

10:26:04 include times that would be late at night.

10:26:06 So that is definitely an issue.

10:26:07 >> I think possibly by extending our resources, even

10:26:11 though they are limited to changing the hours of some

10:26:14 of the individuals like code enforcement, that's up to

10:26:17 the mayor to do that.

10:26:18 But it could be where one or two individuals on a bye




10:26:25 weekly extended hours that we could catch those

10:26:29 individuals and make sure this doesn't happen.

10:26:31 Although this is a workshop and we aren't supposed to

10:26:34 make these recommendations, I won't until he would come

10:26:36 to a regular meeting where we can have this all worked

10:26:38 out.

10:26:39 It's not that we don't hear you.

10:26:40 We do hear you.

10:26:41 We want to address your issues.

10:26:43 That's why I need four council members, even though we

10:26:45 are seven, and all seven of us have that

10:26:47 responsibility, not the one in your district solely.

10:26:51 We want to work with that.

10:26:52 I am not opposed to meeting with two or three of you

10:26:55 and setting some parameters an some time so we can work

10:26:59 these things out.

10:27:00 I would certainly like to do that.

10:27:01 Like I said earlier, I say sleep deprivation is, from

10:27:07 way read and way heard on television -- and I have to

10:27:10 believe everything I hear -- is that sleep deprivation

10:27:14 certainly takes away from the workforce, it takes away

10:27:17 from your productivity as a human being, and it makes




10:27:19 you just not the person you want to be.

10:27:21 So with that in mind, I need a motion to close the

10:27:26 workshop.

10:27:28 >> Move to close.

10:27:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Reddick, seconded by

10:27:36 Mr. Cohen.

10:27:36 The Ayes have it unanimously.

10:27:38 If you want to meet, just go see Mary and I will be

10:27:41 more than happy to meet with two or three of you so you

10:27:44 can form a committee to work these things out.

10:27:46 I appreciate your time.

10:27:47 I know that it's sometimes difficult for all of you to

10:27:50 show up.

10:27:51 And we really appreciate that you have come up and

10:27:54 expressed your ideas and your concern over what's

10:27:57 happening.

10:27:57 Thank you very much.

10:28:01 We now go to item number 6.

10:28:03 >> Steven Griffin, Hillsborough County Planning

10:28:40 Commission.

10:28:41 This morning, we have a brief presentation for you and

10:28:44 a little exercise to help sometime late some thought as




10:28:48 to where the city and the county want to go over the

10:28:50 next 20 years.

10:28:52 I want to introduce a couple of my team members.

10:28:56 They will be making some presentations to you.

10:28:58 First we have Mrs. Melissa Zornitta and Marcy Stenmark.

10:29:11 If I could have the PowerPoint up.

10:29:14 The other one.

10:29:27 This morning we want to brief you on the appraisal

10:29:32 report, to go over briefly the process.

10:29:34 We have a little fun exercise for you and want to let

10:29:36 you know, no decisions are going to be made, nothing is

10:29:39 binding, just want to get you familiar with the process

10:29:42 that is going to be happening with the City of Tampa,

10:29:45 the unincorporated county, both the city of Temple

10:29:47 Terrace and Plant City over the next couple of years.

10:29:53 It started with the evaluation appraisal report, just

10:29:56 to give you an idea.

10:29:58 It's a review of the progress of our local government

10:30:01 has achieved in implementing the community goals

10:30:04 through its comprehensive plan.

10:30:06 Sort of like a little summary audit, if you will, of

10:30:09 how we are doing with our community goals and




10:30:12 objectives and through the use of our comprehensive

10:30:15 plan.

10:30:17 The evaluation appraisal report is required by state

10:30:21 statute.

10:30:21 We have to do this every seven years.

10:30:24 The local planning agency, which is the Planning

10:30:26 Commission, is the agency that's prepared the

10:30:29 evaluation appraisal report.

10:30:34 Just to give you an understanding of the schedule that

10:30:36 we are work on over the next few years, Hillsborough

10:30:40 County evaluation appraisal report is the first due.

10:30:44 That's going to be due to the department of community

10:30:47 affairs by July 1st of 2012 followed by the City of

10:30:51 Tampa, city of Temple Terrace and Plant City the

10:30:55 following year.

10:31:03 The evaluation appraisal report has a purpose.

10:31:06 It needs to get a good understanding of the

10:31:10 comprehensive plan and how it fits with the community

10:31:13 needs today.

10:31:14 We are going to be looking at trends, data, conditions,

10:31:17 circumstances, the overall goal and vision of each

10:31:20 community and the county as a whole, and any changes in




10:31:24 growth management law that's taken place, and what we

10:31:27 need to do in our community to update our comprehensive

10:31:30 plan to meet the challenges of today's circumstances.

10:31:41 The next thing the appraisal report has to do, are we

10:31:44 really achieving our goals in the community that we put

10:31:48 in our comprehensive plan to implement those goals?

10:31:56 Just to give you an understanding of the overview of

10:32:07 the whole process, what we are in the process of doing

10:32:10 is identifying the major issues that face our community

10:32:12 over the next 20 years.

10:32:14 That is the process that we are in right now.

10:32:16 We have H we have been going around having the various

10:32:19 meetings with different agencies, different governments

10:32:22 and different elected officials to get a true

10:32:24 understanding of what the major issues facing our

10:32:26 community over the next 20 years.

10:32:29 From that, we will begin to prepare the evaluation

10:32:32 appraisal report.

10:32:34 We have to do this report based upon those major

10:32:37 issues, based upon the state statute changes, to get an

10:32:41 understanding of where our comprehensive plan is.

10:32:44 Once we get that report, then -- and it is adopted by




10:32:47 the various governments, Board of County Commissioners,

10:32:52 Tampa City Council, Plant City commission, Temple

10:32:54 Terrace, then we send that up to the Department of

10:32:56 Community Affairs for its review and comment.

10:33:00 Once that evaluation appraisal report is accepted and

10:33:07 found in compliance, the next step is to take those

10:33:09 evaluations from the appraisal report and the Do

10:33:12 year-based amendments.

10:33:13 Those amendments are to update your comprehensive plan

10:33:17 to make sure that the recommendations of the year are

10:33:21 followed through.

10:33:22 Once those amendments are done then it is the task to

10:33:27 implement those through the various organizations, in

10:33:30 your case would be your land development regulations,

10:33:33 and anything that you want to see happen in your

10:33:35 community.

10:33:37 So that gives you a quick overview of the process.

10:33:48 Since the early part of the year we have been having

10:33:50 scoping meetings with various issues, meeting with

10:33:52 various county departments, the staffs of all the

10:33:55 cities, the City of Tampa, Temple Terrace and Plant

10:33:57 City, we have been meeting with elected officials such




10:34:00 as yourselves, we have met with the Board of County

10:34:01 Commissioners, just this past Monday, we met with the

10:34:06 Plant City City Commission, and we have also been

10:34:08 meeting with state and regional agencies.

10:34:11 Additionally, we have had scoping meetings with the

10:34:16 public, had meetings with various citizens, and people

10:34:18 from the development community get their understanding

10:34:20 of major issues.

10:34:21 Once we get all of that together, then we have to put

10:34:25 together a letter of understanding and have that up to

10:34:27 the department of community affairs by July 1st of

10:34:30 this year to let then them understand what the major

10:34:33 issues of our community faces over the next 20 years in

10:34:37 the preparation of updating the comprehensive plan.

10:34:40 So just to give you an idea of the upcoming steps that

10:34:43 are going to be happening in the next few months, we

10:34:47 are in the process right now of conducting these

10:34:50 scoping meetings to get an understanding of the major

10:34:52 issues.

10:34:53 Once we have that done, then we will be sending

10:34:57 Department of Community Affairs a letter addressing the

10:35:00 I shall issues of our community and we will be doing




10:35:02 that with you sometime a year from now.

10:35:06 Once that is done, then we go about the task of

10:35:09 actually preparing the evaluation appraisal report.

10:35:13 Once that report is done, we will be meeting with the

10:35:15 Planning Commission to get them to make a

10:35:18 recommendation, and when that appraisal report and take

10:35:22 the recommendation to the various elected bodies for

10:35:25 each jurisdiction as that time frame comes.

10:35:28 Once that is done, then we will send an unofficial

10:35:33 draft of the evaluation appraisal report to the

10:35:34 Department of Community Affairs for their review.

10:35:37 Then we will meet with the City Council, the board it

10:35:40 of county commissioners, and Tampa City Council, Temple

10:35:44 Terrace City Council when those dates are due, to

10:35:47 actually send up the official evaluation appraisal

10:35:49 report to the Department of Community Affairs for their

10:35:52 review and finding that in compliance.

10:35:56 Once that is done and they find in the compliance, we

10:35:58 have the task of actually updating the comprehensive

10:36:01 plan through the year with the process, and for the

10:36:05 City of Tampa that will be again sometime within the

10:36:08 next couple of years, probably by 2014 we will be going




10:36:11 through that process.

10:36:12 But we want to get everybody on the same page at this

10:36:14 point because this is where we are starting with the

10:36:16 unincorporated county, the cities will follow next

10:36:20 year, and everybody, we want to be on the same page as

10:36:23 our community moves far forward.

10:36:25 That gives you a brief understanding of what the

10:36:28 process that is beginning to happen in our community.

10:36:31 We have a little exercise when want you to take a part

10:36:35 of this, and Marcie is going to hand you some cards.

10:36:38 These cards have some issues that we think you need to

10:36:45 make a selection from.

10:36:50 Go through the cards, pick out six major issues that

10:36:53 you feel are going to be something that our community

10:36:56 needs to address over the next 20 years.

10:36:59 We do have a couple of blanks cards if you don't see

10:37:02 any issues written down that we have, you can write

10:37:05 those issues down yourself and turn them in to us.

10:37:09 All I ask you to do is not write on the cards that have

10:37:12 words on them already.

10:37:13 Just write on the blank cards if you don't find an

10:37:16 issue.




10:37:17 Once you get the cards picked out raise your hand and

10:37:19 we will have each of you go through and see which

10:37:23 issues you picked out and a brief explanation of what

10:37:25 those issues are.

10:37:26 So we will give you a few minutes to do that.

10:37:28 Then we will be back with you.

10:37:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: (Off microphone)

10:37:34 We have someone that wants to speak.

10:37:38 Let's proceed.

10:37:39 >> No problem.

10:37:47 Melissa will give you a previous update.

10:37:51 >> I'm Melissa Zornitta with the Planning Commission

10:37:54 staff and we want to present the results of some of the

10:37:57 other scoping meetings.

10:37:58 We don't want to skew your choices too much.

10:38:00 But it will give you an idea of what some of the other

10:38:07 group has thought about already.

10:38:15 We started the process with an agency and department

10:38:18 survey that went to all four local government staff to

10:38:21 identify what they thought as some of the issues that

10:38:24 would arise, in a very detailed level.

10:38:28 You can see it ranges everything from transit issues to




10:38:32 population growth, issues regarding budgets emerge, and

10:38:38 jobs, economic development.

10:38:41 We also utilized our annual quality of life survey to

10:38:44 ask a couple of optional questions on the backside of

10:38:47 it related to our comprehensive plan and our update.

10:38:57 We heard about a long-term, if that would be

10:39:01 beneficial.

10:39:02 A majority wanted to have greater opportunities to

10:39:03 participate in the long-range planning effort so we

10:39:06 asked some questions about how they would like to do

10:39:09 that, such as did they prefer written surveys to a town

10:39:13 hall meeting, or town hall meetings, and they were

10:39:16 interested in things like water quality, sidewalks and

10:39:20 bicycle lanes were pervasive throughout the community.

10:39:33 There we government so we held several meetings with

10:39:36 the different staffs as well as the Planning

10:39:38 Commission, other stakeholders, we got a listing here

10:39:42 that will come up of all the different participants in

10:39:45 our meetings, from state and regional agencies to

10:39:49 different staff departments.

10:39:51 And then we had a meeting on April 7th with

10:39:54 stakeholders from both the neighborhood associations




10:39:58 and development and business community.

10:40:03 And some of what they chose, I just start to see a

10:40:07 theme as I go through each of these because there's a

10:40:09 lot of commonality in what was chosen.

10:40:12 From a regional and state perspective, the

10:40:15 transportation issues came out as high ranking as did

10:40:20 issues such as schools in education, redevelopment

10:40:24 sustainability, regionalism and economy were lumped

10:40:28 together because they saw those going hand in hand,s we

10:40:31 move forward, special needs populations rose to the top

10:40:35 as well, things like aging population, our economically

10:40:39 disadvantaged, and environmental issues like water

10:40:42 supply, air quality, renewable energy.

10:40:49 We met with the three cities.

10:40:51 You will see throws a lot of similarity here.

10:40:54 Just a little different prioritization in terms of what

10:40:56 came up with the highest ranking.

10:40:58 Environmental issues were sort of at the top.

10:41:01 Regionalism and economy again they saw going hand in

10:41:12 hand.

10:41:13 Structure and growth was identified as very important.

10:41:15 Special needs populations and some of our miscellaneous




10:41:18 items like livability and health, parks and recreation.

10:41:27 The county staff, we had a meeting with them again, and

10:41:29 some of the topics, environment, regionalism, economy,

10:41:33 infrastructure and growth, and issues such as disaster

10:41:38 preparedness rose out of that meeting which was

10:41:41 something that hadn't come up in all of the others.

10:41:45 One of the Planning Commission again came up with a

10:41:49 similar topic, infrastructure and growth were their

10:41:52 highest priority, how are we going to pay for things.

10:42:02 An infrastructure structure rather than some of the

10:42:05 other meetings where it was seen as an economic

10:42:07 development tool that we need to have a skilled

10:42:10 workforce, environmental regionalism, economy,

10:42:13 transportation were also high ranking topics here.

10:42:17 And our stakeholders again came up with very similar

10:42:23 topics, economic issues were at the very bottom, and

10:42:27 environmental infrastructure and growth.

10:42:35 Staff had taken a stab in environmental issues before

10:42:41 we started this process.

10:42:42 We identified mobility and alternative to traffic

10:42:45 congestion.

10:42:46 Citizen engagement and sustainability.




10:42:50 And the one thing that we heard repeatedly is that most

10:42:53 of these items are really interrelated.

10:42:55 You can't separate them necessarily, things like

10:42:59 sustainability and mobility, economy, regionalism.

10:43:04 They transcend.

10:43:06 They are kind of all interrelated and interwoven.

10:43:16 We wanted to mention that we have been looking at a lot

10:43:19 of entities out there doing some form of long-range

10:43:21 planning for either transportation, with the MPO, Urban

10:43:28 Land Institute, had some statewide strategies.

10:43:33 TBARTA has done regional efforts.

10:43:34 So we are coordinating with all of those to make sure

10:43:38 that our efforts align, and so far we are seeing that

10:43:41 they do, and our purpose of being here today is because

10:43:46 we want to get the community-wide issues.

10:43:50 We are doing this really on a comprehensive basis, not

10:43:53 just looking at the unincorporated county plan but all

10:43:55 of the plans.

10:44:00 Because economic development is an issue.

10:44:03 It's an issue for all of us.

10:44:05 Whether you are in the City of Tampa, city of Plant

10:44:07 City or unincorporated county.




10:44:12 That leads to our meeting on March 6th with all

10:44:18 elected officials.

10:44:20 We are going to Temple Terrace next week.

10:44:22 So all for local governments will have done this card

10:44:26 exercise.

10:44:26 And they will have some idea of what they see as the

10:44:30 major issues.

10:44:30 Then we hope on May 6th to bring everyone together,

10:44:34 and come to a consensus about the major issues for the

10:44:37 community as a whole, the school board, as well as the

10:44:40 Planning Commission will be involved in that meeting.

10:44:45 Also, I want to mention, we have a very large public

10:44:48 input opportunity coming up on May 17th.

10:44:51 We will be having a town hall meeting to get public

10:44:54 input on whether or not we have got these major issues

10:44:57 right and whether or not the citizens out there agree

10:45:00 with what we have come up with so far.

10:45:02 And so that will be an important step as well.

10:45:05 But at this time, we would love to hear what you all

10:45:08 are thinking.

10:45:10 And that concludes the presentation.

10:45:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Council members?




10:45:15 We go from left to right.

10:45:16 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

10:45:18 Thank you, Planning Commission staff.

10:45:20 It's great to see friendly faces here.

10:45:26 They know me well so I don't really adhere to rules

10:45:29 very well.

10:45:30 So rather than taking six items, I group them into

10:45:36 topics, because many of them are very, very closely

10:45:40 related.

10:45:42 Then I counted how many I had in each category, and I

10:45:45 have got eleven that I included in the transportation

10:45:51 mobility topic.

10:45:53 And those are walkability, transportation funding,

10:45:56 transit oriented development, mobility, infrastructure,

10:46:00 increased transit service, connectivity, bicycle

10:46:03 culture and bicycle/pedestrian safety.

10:46:07 All of those are related to one topic of transaction

10:46:11 which I think is our challenge regionally, which is why

10:46:15 I also included regional cooperation and

10:46:19 intergovernmental coordination because we need to not

10:46:22 only look at the transportation issues as it effects

10:46:30 individual neighborhoods or communities but how those




10:46:33 individuals and communities are linked together.

10:46:35 I know we talked about different district.

10:46:37 And I will speak about my district, because I think we

10:46:40 need to -- and I spoke to Mr. Griffin about this

10:46:43 yesterday, was we need to work with Pasco County as

10:46:50 well.

10:46:50 I didn't hear them listed in the numbers of the

10:46:57 governments you have spoken, to because my district

10:47:00 borders the Pasco County line, and many resident who

10:47:02 live in Pasco County work in Hillsborough.

10:47:05 Many shop in my district.

10:47:07 So there is a lot of interconnectedness that needs to

10:47:11 be examined between the folks who live in southern

10:47:15 Pasco and those in northern Hillsborough.

10:47:18 Then the others all gained about three apiece.

10:47:27 Energy efficiency, renewability, sustainability, water,

10:47:30 which is our chairman's favorite topic, I believe,

10:47:33 water quality, water supply, and agriculture water

10:47:36 supply.

10:47:41 The situation for those two ends of the spectrum, the

10:47:44 aging population and children at risk, those issues of

10:47:48 homelessness affect all of those groups.




10:47:53 There are seniors and children who make up the largest

10:47:55 amount in our homeless population.

10:47:58 So I think those three are related issues.

10:48:01 Looking at again environmental issues related

10:48:06 conservation, air quality, and agricultural, local food

10:48:10 sources.

10:48:13 Our economy in Hillsborough County, not necessarily the

10:48:15 City of Tampa, has been very agriculturally tied for

10:48:19 many years, and I think with community gardens and with

10:48:23 people will go to have local sources of food, that it

10:48:28 is something that is going to be in the future the City

10:48:32 of Tampa will be interested in addressing local food

10:48:35 sources as well with gardens and things like that

10:48:39 coming into fruition.

10:48:41 And then the development issues of activity centers and

10:48:45 recreation parks I think tie into that as well, because

10:48:47 a local food source, community garden, would to me

10:48:51 become an activity center and a recreational type of

10:48:54 activity in addition to our children's play areas.

10:49:04 That sums it up for me.

10:49:06 So I have all these cards.

10:49:06 >> Unlike my colleague, I did exactly what I was told.




10:49:17 [ Laughter ]

10:49:19 And I really was focusing on areas that I sense people

10:49:29 feel that we are weak in.

10:49:30 I heard a lot in this past campaign about bicycle and

10:49:33 pedestrian safety and that was one of the topics that I

10:49:36 chose.

10:49:37 Another one is disaster preparedness, because I don't

10:49:41 think that this community is really ready for a major

10:49:47 storm event.

10:49:51 We haven't really see a numbered storm hit the area.

10:49:56 I can't remember the last time that we had a storm of

10:50:00 that magnitude.

10:50:01 And I think that if you observe what goes on even

10:50:06 during minor storms, it doesn't take a lot of

10:50:10 imagination to think about how difficult it would be in

10:50:15 a major occurrence.

10:50:22 I chose regional cooperation in private-public

10:50:26 partnerships because I think people want to see more

10:50:28 cooperation, economies of scale and efficiencies

10:50:33 achieved by governmental entities.

10:50:36 I also mentioned water supply, because I agree with the

10:50:39 chairman.




10:50:40 I think it's a very, very critical issue facing this

10:50:44 region.

10:50:46 And it's a critical issue facing the state.

10:50:48 And it's something that we are going to have to face up

10:50:51 to as we examine growth patterns and the way that we

10:50:56 try to develop our economy.

10:50:57 And finally infrastructure, because it doesn't -- you

10:51:02 don't have to drive too far from here to see all of the

10:51:05 infrastructure challenges that this community faces.

10:51:08 So thank you for the work that you are doing, and thank

10:51:10 you for asking for our input and I'll look forward to

10:51:13 continuing the dialogue.

10:51:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.

10:51:16 Mr. Frank Reddick.

10:51:18 >>FRANK REDDICK: I agree with my other councilmen who

10:51:23 have already spoken.

10:51:31 I would almost ditto what Mr. Cohen just said.

10:51:35 But affordable housing, I think that's critical for the

10:51:39 population we have now, and quite a few people in that

10:51:44 area, not being able to afford a home, and those that

10:51:46 can having a hardship as well.

10:51:48 And I also went with economic.




10:51:53 I think that is critical.

10:51:55 One of mine is increased traffic.

10:52:01 I think with the growing population in this community,

10:52:05 we are going to have to find a way, find more ways to

10:52:07 get people around.

10:52:15 And after seeing what took place in Tuscaloosa, Alabama

10:52:19 last evening, if the state and this city is prepared

10:52:24 for something of the magnitude that just went on in

10:52:28 Alabama.

10:52:28 Water supply.

10:52:29 Before I came on the council, I used to hear about the

10:52:34 chairman speak about water all the time and how you

10:52:36 turn off the water when you shower and turn the water

10:52:38 back on and wash.

10:52:40 I think also important is efficiency, and I think we

10:52:49 are going to have to find a way, and energy is

10:53:00 critical.

10:53:01 And number six, when I look at the homeless population,

10:53:05 and I just want to include that because I think we have

10:53:11 a critical need.

10:53:13 Those are my six plus one.

10:53:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.




10:53:17 Mr. Mike Suarez.

10:53:18 >> Well, I am kind of playing a different game.

10:53:24 I have a full house and.

10:53:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Go to the Hard Rock Cafe.

10:53:29 >> I don't because I know how lucky I am. Anyway, I

10:53:34 appreciate the fact that you made this a little bit of

10:53:36 a fun exercise for us to try to figure out what it is,

10:53:39 and I understood the reason why you had us select only

10:53:43 six because we have limited resources and limited

10:53:46 amounts of types to be able to deal with so many of

10:53:50 these issues.

10:53:50 So these are my top six.

10:53:54 Intragovernmental coordination.

10:53:55 I think we are going to need more of that in order to

10:53:58 handle any of the issues that are in this list of

10:54:02 issues.

10:54:05 For me really the most important part of that is

10:54:07 economic prosperity.

10:54:08 We need to find a way of getting back what we lost over

10:54:13 the last few years, and going, and with that I think we

10:54:21 need to be more competitive in order for us to get the

10:54:23 economic prosperity.




10:54:25 Our chairman's favorite, water supply.

10:54:26 We are not going to have any of this stuff without a

10:54:28 good, clean, plentiful water supply.

10:54:31 And this is something that I don't think the chairman

10:54:33 has ever heard, hopefully not because he knows

10:54:36 everything.

10:54:38 [ Laughter ]

10:54:39 I heard this made by someone that said the tears of

10:54:42 Leonardo da Vinci are still within the water system of

10:54:48 the world.

10:54:49 And that's an interesting concept because we do not

10:54:51 produce more water.

10:54:53 We just reuse the water that we have.

10:54:57 Not quite the way that he wants to see us use it but

10:55:00 that's another story.

10:55:01 Then what leads back into neighborhoods, strong

10:55:05 neighborhoods, and of course the last one is

10:55:07 livability.

10:55:08 All those things come, I think, from economic

10:55:11 prosperity and intergovernmental coordination.

10:55:13 So I kind of look at it from how do we get from top

10:55:17 down, and from bottom up, and see how we are going to




10:55:22 go forward.

10:55:23 But thank you very much for the exercise.

10:55:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am not going to get involved

10:55:31 because everything has already been said.

10:55:35 I say that the to the public, if you already spoke on

10:55:40 that matter, pass.

10:55:41 So thank you very much.

10:55:42 Any other discussion?

10:55:43 >> That concludes our presentation, chairman Miranda.

10:55:47 We appreciate your involvement.

10:55:52 We will be getting back as we go through the process of

10:55:56 comprehensive plans of all our jurisdictions and invite

10:55:59 you to come out May 6th and join the other elected

10:56:02 officials.

10:56:02 >> May the 6th is a Friday, I believe.

10:56:05 And unfortunately I have commitments with the State of

10:56:08 Florida on that Friday.

10:56:11 Something I have been doing for 25 years.

10:56:13 >> Well, certainly you are welcome to go to our Web

10:56:15 site, imagine2035.

10:56:18 >> There's another thing I don't do very well.

10:56:20 I hate to tell you that but I'm just a human being.




10:56:23 >> I understand.

10:56:24 You are welcome to join us in our town hall meeting.

10:56:27 >> We finally agreed on something.

10:56:29 Thank you very much.

10:56:30 I appreciate it, Mr. Griffin, you and your staff.

10:56:33 Thank you.

10:56:34 I believe the last time I went left to right.

10:56:37 I started right to left.

10:56:39 So we go back to the right.

10:56:40 I need a motion to receive and file all those

10:56:43 documents.

10:56:43 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Motion to receive and file the

10:56:47 documents.

10:56:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: A motion by Lisa Montelione,

10:56:51 seconded by Frank Reddick.

10:56:54 All in favor of the motion say Aye.

10:56:55 Ayes have it unanimously.

10:56:57 Everybody voted yes.

10:57:02 Anyone else who cares to speak on a subject matter that

10:57:04 may be interesting to you?

10:57:06 I see three young people back there that were looking

10:57:09 at each other.




10:57:09 Maybe they have something to say.

10:57:19 You have been here for some period of time and five of

10:57:22 us recognize that so you can come forward.

10:57:32 Get on the record first.

10:57:32 >> My name is Craig Hawthorne.

10:57:36 I signed the book.

10:57:37 I live at 10603 north Nebraska, lazy oaks mobile home

10:57:43 community.

10:57:45 In April, I was assaulted in that community.

10:57:48 Police were called.

10:57:50 We have a serious problem in that community with drug

10:57:52 dealing, with crime that runs wild.

10:57:55 We have got trailers that are totally destroyed that

10:57:57 are sitting in position.

10:57:58 There's code enforcement violations.

10:58:02 When I was hit, I was hit by the drug dealer that I had

10:58:05 been complaining about.

10:58:06 I filed -- you may not know who I am.

10:58:10 Okay.

10:58:11 Tom Scott knew who I was because it was a matter that

10:58:14 came before the circuit court and I went to the circuit

10:58:16 court and I filed a copy of the motion, and the order




10:58:19 from the judge in the circuit court.

10:58:21 I do have a case now which is quite major before the

10:58:24 DCS up in district.

10:58:29 The case is basically deals with the sheriff's

10:58:32 department over the microwave system.

10:58:35 It also deals with Hart transportation and all of that.

10:58:39 But I was assaulted out there by the same person that I

10:58:42 have been complaining about.

10:58:43 Now the officer said to me, we can't -- do you know his

10:58:47 name?

10:58:47 No, I don't know his name.

10:58:49 I can get in my records to show you pictures and things

10:58:52 that I have taken.

10:58:53 When I first moved into that trailer park, and, sir, I

10:58:56 lived in that trailer park in '5 and '6 when it was

10:59:01 owned by a different company, okay.

10:59:03 We never had the problems there.

10:59:05 We didn't have the vacant units we have.

10:59:07 We don't have the juvenile delinquency problem that

10:59:12 comes through there because of the drugs.

10:59:14 There are several people in that complex that actually

10:59:18 with this man who assaulted me, he's in there day and




10:59:21 night.

10:59:21 He doesn't live there.

10:59:22 He comes into the property.

10:59:24 He deals with people who have children.

10:59:26 He's part of the -- the police have been in there one

10:59:29 day.

10:59:30 One night they came in when they were having this big

10:59:32 party and looked at the trailer.

10:59:34 I was wondering who called them, you know.

10:59:36 We have had a very serious action out there, not more

10:59:39 than a year ago with the Tampa undercover police

10:59:42 department was out there.

10:59:45 You know, they took a broken bottle off of my patio.

10:59:47 He came onto my patio.

10:59:49 I was sitting oh out there.

10:59:51 Picked a broken bottle off of my patio that the police

10:59:53 officer said that he probably was going to stab me

10:59:56 with.

10:59:56 But I don't know because he didn't hit me with the

10:59:58 battle.

10:59:59 He was smack me around.

11:00:00 I was half unconscious by the time the police got




11:00:03 there.

11:00:04 I'm unhappy because I had a friend die on this police

11:00:07 force.

11:00:12 She's listed on that wall and I go to every function

11:00:14 that has anything to do with the Tampa PD and I was not

11:00:19 more than three hours out from saying hello to her.

11:00:21 So I am a big supporter of this town.

11:00:24 And I always said to her that she was good enough cop

11:00:27 that she should have went to the FBI but she chose to

11:00:30 work for the city.

11:00:31 And the City Council then didn't treat her very well.

11:00:41 But that has no bearing on that.

11:00:43 I just say that I support the police department and I

11:00:45 support everything they do.

11:00:46 And because of the microwave system, they know when I'm

11:00:50 complain being stuff that's going on but they can't act

11:00:52 on it.

11:00:53 It's just like when I go to the judges, I have got to

11:00:56 speak to their faces, or put in the writing.

11:00:58 They know about this situation.

11:00:59 But they can't rule on it.

11:01:01 And just -- Mr. Miranda, you are one of the senior




11:01:05 people here, and I don't know all of you personally.

11:01:07 I have never met any of you.

11:01:09 I have seen your election campaigns.

11:01:11 I'm a registered sex offender but I live over there.

11:01:14 >> I always go by the three-minute rule.

11:01:17 I apologize to you but that's the rule we have always

11:01:19 had here.

11:01:20 As I understand it, I'm not speaking to you, I'm just

11:01:23 speaking to the other council members now.

11:01:24 I understand this.

11:01:31 There was reference to district court of appeals, so we

11:01:33 are not going to elaborate on that case right now

11:01:36 because of jeopardy on either side of the issue.

11:01:38 I'm sure the police department has heard this complaint

11:01:42 and are vigilant about it.

11:01:44 There was reference made by the Sheriff's Department

11:01:46 and the Tampa PD so I don't know where the

11:01:49 jurisdictional lines lie.

11:01:50 So we will leave it at that.

11:01:52 And we will make comments with the police department

11:01:54 and see what their reflections are on what you just

11:02:02 said.




11:02:03 Any one of these three young people like to come up and

11:02:05 say hi, even put your name on the record, see yourself

11:02:09 on television or let your parents know that you are

11:02:12 here?

11:02:13 Yes, sir.

11:02:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just a follow-up if I can with regard

11:02:18 to the request to set a suppose discussion meeting to

11:02:21 follow up on the law and procedure on matters that we

11:02:24 discussed.

11:02:25 I had an opportunity to coordinate with council

11:02:25 members' offices.

11:02:31 And Ms. Cole and Mr. Shimberg would like to attend.

11:02:34 If it's possible, I am asking for a motion that that be

11:02:37 set for May 10th of 2011 from nine to 11:30 in the

11:02:42 Mascotte room downstairs.

11:02:44 That's a Tuesday morning.

11:02:45 >> Thank God I got a brain.

11:02:47 I could figure out what day it is.

11:02:49 The only reason I know that is because I have a

11:02:51 doctor's appointment on Monday.

11:02:53 I'm not that smart.

11:02:55 I need a motion to that effect.




11:02:57 Motion by Mr. Cohen, second by Ms. Montelione on a

11:03:00 close call with Mr. Suarez who was about ready to raise

11:03:04 his finger.

11:03:04 All in favor indicate by saying Aye.

11:03:06 The ayes have it unanimously.

11:03:08 Anything else?

11:03:09 From anyone?

11:03:10 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

11:03:15 Most of you probably noticed my pin today.

11:03:18 I don't know if a motion is in order but I would like

11:03:20 to send congratulations to the lightning, and moving on

11:03:24 to the next round of playoff games.

11:03:27 I am personally a hockey fan.

11:03:29 And I believe that it is a sport that Tampa has

11:03:33 embraced.

11:03:34 And we should really be looking forward to the next

11:03:37 series of games.

11:03:39 So if you have a chance, watch it on TV, go to the

11:03:41 game, celebrate it.

11:03:42 It's a wonderful, wonderful sport, and a great time.

11:03:46 >> Thank you very much.

11:03:48 We will certainly try to do that.




11:03:49 Mr. Cohen.

11:03:49 >>MIKE COHEN: Two items, sir.

11:03:53 First is I would like to make a motion to invite

11:03:56 Michael Pastreich, the president and CEO of the Florida

11:04:03 orchestra to appear on May 19th to provide a brief

11:04:06 overview of their program.

11:04:07 >> Motion by Mr. Cone, second by Mr. Reddick.

11:04:16 The ayes have it unanimously.

11:04:17 >> Second, I would like to ask the staff of the finance

11:04:25 department to appear before council on May 19th

11:04:28 during the 10:30 time certain for staff reports to

11:04:31 update us on current state of the city's finances and

11:04:37 how we are progressing through this fiscal year.

11:04:41 >> Seconded by Mr. Suarez for.

11:04:44 All in favor?

11:04:46 The ayes have it unanimously.

11:04:48 Thank you very much.

11:04:49 Two for two.

11:04:50 Mr. Dedrick.

11:04:51 >> Not at this time.

11:04:53 >> Thank you.

11:04:53 You are a very good councilman.




11:04:55 Mr. Suarez.

11:04:56 >>MIKE SUAREZ: No new business.

11:04:57 >> You are an excellent council member.

11:04:59 I need a council Meg member to make this motion.

11:05:01 Way need is, I made this motion, and I was a little

11:05:07 misinterpreted by myself.

11:05:08 I you need a motion to go to the legal department

11:05:11 regarding this 13,142.50 regarding the complaint by a

11:05:21 citizen that we had who sent us the bill for it, and I

11:05:24 don't think we are going to pay for the.

11:05:27 That's what the legal told me.

11:05:28 But I need it officially to go to them.

11:05:31 I have a motion by Mr. Cohen, second by Mr. Suarez.

11:05:34 All in favor?

11:05:35 The ayes have it unanimously.

11:05:37 Anything else to come before this council meeting?

11:05:43 We stand adjourned.


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